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擴大我國"},{"start":2176.962,"end":2203.382,"text":"國際參與推展國際國會交流等經費500萬元第五目國際合作及關懷向下加強雙邊及多邊合作600萬元依參加或挹注亞洲開發銀行亞蘇世界蔬菜中心亞太糧食肥料技術中心亞非農村發展組織及國際稻米研究所等國際組織之多邊合作計畫或活動協助中央非政府組織推動國際合作計畫等經費100萬元"},{"start":2206.26,"end":2222.047,"text":"二歐洲斯斯洛伐克捷克民主韌性及能力建構計畫與半導體人才培育獎學金等經費500萬元以上公積檢列4190萬元科目均自行調整區域均照列改列為377億6726萬9千元本項提案22案保留送院會處理本項通過決議105項"},{"start":2231.004,"end":2253.239,"text":"第二項 臨時事務局18億2211萬元 本項通過決議八項第三項 外交及國際事務學院一億1312萬4千元 本項通過決議七項二 機密部分審查結果密略三 115年度中央政府總預算案關於外交部主管說之公開及機密部分審查完略"},{"start":2254.199,"end":2269.233,"text":"審查結果送財政委員會會診後提報院會須交由黨團協商院會討論時有罵召集委員文君出席說明是本次預算審查如有預算科目金額或文字物質授權議事人員調整宣讀完畢"},{"start":2271.654,"end":2292.545,"text":"請問在場委員對於上次會議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處?沒有好 謝謝議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀本日議程討論事項繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金處理一作業基金一國軍生產及服務作業基金二國軍老舊"},{"start":2293.826,"end":2318.285,"text":"眷村改建基金 三國防醫學大學軍事教育基金 二資本計劃基金國軍營設及設施改建基金宣讀完畢好現在介紹在場委員跟與會官員 陳永康委員羅美玲委員 徐巧欣委員黃建斌委員王逸川委員 沈伯陽委員 謝謝"},{"start":2321.586,"end":2339.134,"text":"列席名單我們來介紹一下那顧部長因公請假我們予以准假副部長徐思謙先生常務次長陳文興中將政治作戰局局長史順文中將軍備局局長林文翔中將主計局局長謝其賢中將"},{"start":2341.535,"end":2367.93,"text":"軍醫局局長陳元浩中將人事參謀次長助理事次長薛伯陽少將工具事務部參謀長李慶南中將行政院主席總處基金預算專門委員戴全芳本日會議繼續審查一一五年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國防主管非營業金一金今天進行處理請議事人員宣讀預算書記委員提案宣讀完畢後依照寫上做處理提案請宣讀"},{"start":2370.031,"end":2380.865,"text":"一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算國防部主管甲非營業基金非營業部分一作業基金國軍生產及服務作業基金一業務計劃因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良擴充"},{"start":2385.471,"end":2394.334,"text":"及資金運用等向之審查結果隨同調整二 業務收支一 業務總收入434億6,899萬7千元二 業務總支出420億1,588萬1千元三本期剩餘14億5,311萬6千元三 結繳公庫金額無劣數是轉投資計劃無劣數五 固定資產建設改良擴充45億2,122萬1千元"},{"start":2412.461,"end":2439.68,"text":"六 國庫增撥基金額無劣數二 作業基金國軍老舊眷村改建基金一業務計劃應依據業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良擴充及資金應用等向之審查結果隨同調整二 業務收支一業務總收入十一億八千一百六十二萬八千元二 業務總支出八億四千五百五十二萬六千元三本期剩餘三億三千六百一十萬兩千元三 截小公庫金額無劣數四 轉投資計劃無劣數"},{"start":2442.555,"end":2466.33,"text":"5.固定资产建设改良扩充无劣数6.国库增波基金额无劣数3.作业基金国防医学大学军事教育基金一业务计划因依据业务收支转投资固定资产建设改良扩充及资金应用等项之审查结果随同调整而业务收支一业务总收入9亿5653万元而业务总支出9亿6139万9千元三本级短处486万9千元"},{"start":2469.454,"end":2479.282,"text":"三 結繳公庫金額無劣數 四 轉投資計劃無劣數五 固定資產建設改良擴充一億六千四百三十萬三千元六 國庫增波基金額一億五千四百"},{"start":2480.222,"end":2506.585,"text":"一億五千七百四十三萬八千元是資本計劃基金國軍營設及設施改建基金一業務計劃因依據基金來源與用途審查結果水統調整二基金來源用途及餘處一基金來源一百七十八億七十一萬六千元二基金用途兩百一十五億八千一百一十一萬八千元三本集短處三十七億八千零四十萬兩千元三結角工庫五列數"},{"start":2508.098,"end":2533.892,"text":"4.補辦預算固定資產建設改良貨積58億7265萬5千元現在宣讀委員資預算提案第一案生產事業業務收入增列1500萬元委員黃仁等人提案第二案服務事業服務收入增列100萬元委員林楚昀等人提案第三案業務收入服務收入增列100萬元委員馬文君等人提案第四案生產事業銷貨成本減列"},{"start":2535.407,"end":2559.947,"text":"五千萬元為馬文君等提案第五案生產事業修理保養及保固費減列七百五十萬元為馬文君等提案第六案至第八案為生產事業管理及總務費用之預算提案第六案減列一千萬元為馬文君等提案第七案減列一千零五十萬元為馬文君等提案第八案減列五千零五十萬元為馬文君等提案第九案至第四案為生產事業"},{"start":2560.919,"end":2589.113,"text":"研究發展費用之提案第九案檢列五百五十萬元五元馬文君等提案第十案檢列一千零五十萬元五元馬文君等提案第十一案生產事業旅運費檢列一千萬元五元黃人等提案第十二案醫療成本凍結一百萬元五元林儲雲等提案第十三案管理費用及總務費用檢列十萬元五元馬文君等提案第十四至第十九案為主決議"},{"start":2590.069,"end":2594.603,"text":"现在宣读主角一支内容第十四案"},{"start":2595.339,"end":2621.594,"text":"未因應國軍官兵眷屬及榮民對福利品質需求,原要求國軍生產及服務作業基金福利及文教事業於三個月內提出書面報告,提案人員馬文君等人。第四五案,青年日報社一百一十二至一百一十四年度決算均業務短促,應檢視現況改善及制定相關行銷策略,原要求於三個月內提出書面報告,提案人員馬文君等人。"},{"start":2623.188,"end":2647.678,"text":"第十六案青年日報社應檢討經營策略並研謀改善精進作為原要求國軍生產及服務作業基金福利及文教事業於三個月內提出書面報告提案人委員馬文君等人第十七案青年日報社仍應研謀改善降低營運成本原要求於三個月內提出書面報告提案人委員馬文君等人第十八案國防部"},{"start":2648.086,"end":2673.361,"text":"福利事业管理处应检讨经营策略并严谋改善经济作为原要求于三个月内提出出面报告。提案人委员马文君等人。第十九案,国军生产及服务作业基金应检讨其经营策略,设法增加营收。提案人委员马文君等人。第二十案,国军老旧郡村改建基金主任收入增列五百万元委员黄仁等提案。第二十一案,"},{"start":2675.175,"end":2682.74,"text":"銷貨成本簡列1000萬元委員黃仁等提案第22至第23案為業務費用補貼償獎勵慰問與獎助計凍結2000萬元委員黃仁等提案第23案業務費用凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第24至第30案為主決議現在宣讀主決議之內容第24案國軍老舊眷村"},{"start":2704.205,"end":2727.788,"text":"111至113年度受疫情不动产期区域发展等因素影响于屋店铺支标数户数及销货收入均未达支标准率均低于三成请国防部衡量全盘效益采标诸售并行多元化作为增加基金资效益提案人委马文君等人第25案"},{"start":2729.35,"end":2744.078,"text":"國軍老舊眷村改建基金一百一十五年度預算 編列租賃收入五億六千三百三十萬一千元 運營積極辦理資產文化等相關作業以益助基金之收益 提案人為馬文君等人 第26案"},{"start":2747.062,"end":2772.787,"text":"立法院预算中心报告,经管国军老旧眷村改建基金总策内待处分土地面积734.84公顷中待检讨活化之面积为235.71公顷。国防部应积极办理相关作业以完成土地活化处分并保存眷村特色文化。提案人为马文君等人。第27案。"},{"start":2773.939,"end":2789.422,"text":"国军老旧眷村115年度与业务费编列3734万元执行新竹县中正新村等三处文化保存计划,原请国防部持续精进对地方政府之辅导作为。"},{"start":2789.824,"end":2814.702,"text":"以發揮預算效益及眷村文化保存支撐效提案人委員馬文君等人第28案國軍島舊眷村115年度與業務費用編列補助地方政府眷村文化保存開辦費3734萬元予以加強控管並經濟眷村文化保存及輔導作業並於3個月內提出書面報告提案人委員馬文君等人第29案國軍島舊眷村改建基金115年度業務費用"},{"start":2819.952,"end":2845.027,"text":"其他業務外費用之雜項費用編列3億1,067萬2千元其中土地處理費用為1億7,859萬2千元國防部應積極就控制眷地協調地方政府採取貸款貸款及短期活化之方式挹注基金之收益提案人為馬文君等人第三十案國軍老舊眷村改建基金115年度"},{"start":2845.884,"end":2865.459,"text":"業務費用科目資捐助補助獎助編列三千七百三十四萬元國防部援引經濟眷村文化保存及輔導作為更需積極與地方政府合作必等達成眷村文化永續發展與經營效益第二人委員馬文君等人第三十一案"},{"start":2866.721,"end":2892.055,"text":"國防醫學大學軍事交易基金收入增列100萬元委員黃仁等提案第32案建校合作成本凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第33案固定資產建設改良擴充山軍總醫院及國防醫學院凍結1000萬元委員黃仁等提案第34案國軍營舍及設施改建基金財產收入增列5億元委員馬文君等提案第35案"},{"start":2894.906,"end":2912.557,"text":"國軍營設及設施改建基金基金來源甄列五千萬元委員黃仁等提案第36案國軍營設及設施改建基金資安園區專案計劃檢列一億元委員馬文君等提案第37至41案為國軍營設及設施改建基金基金用途國軍"},{"start":2913.992,"end":2938.838,"text":"銀社整建計劃之提案第37案簡列2000萬元委員黃仁等提案第38案簡列1億元委員馬文君等提案第39案簡列2億元委員馬文君等提案第40案簡列2億元委員馬文君等提案第41案簡列2億元委員馬文君等提案第42至第44案為國軍銀社及設施改建基金基金用途工程及設施整建計劃之提案第42案簡列500萬元"},{"start":2940.202,"end":2951.509,"text":"委員黃仁等提案第43案檢列5000萬元委員馬文君等提案第44案檢列1億元委員馬文君等提案第45案凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案宣讀完畢"},{"start":2968.783,"end":2970.469,"text":"好那我們請這個官員募集"},{"start":3000.04,"end":3000.56,"text":"預算提案與業務計劃"},{"start":3015.546,"end":3042.401,"text":"为并案原则并施讨论谈事因处理并案冻结或删减及选择其中一个提案为主案的方式处理主题案人不在场的提案我们原则上不予处理谢谢各位那我们现在进行审查我们首先从国均生产及服务作业基金开始主案讨论第一案有关生产事业业务收入的部分黄能委员不在我们不予讨论第二案请说明"},{"start":3044.184,"end":3071.152,"text":"林柱英委員不在林柱英委員到了我們請國防部說明一下市委員好第二案的話是林柱英委員提的這個希望我們增加服務業務收入100萬元那我們這個依委員提案辦理好那照案通過是增列100萬第二案增列100萬"},{"start":3073.653,"end":3091.804,"text":"第三項請說明第三項為馬衛軍委員對於服務收入增加一百萬元提案以致委員幫助說明以委員提案辦理那就是主席不好意思同意啦同意就增加一百萬可是要說明一下我也沒有"},{"start":3093.404,"end":3104.794,"text":"我們這個國防部的福利站它存在的意義其實它當然不是純粹只是盈利因為如果說天災發生的時候或者戰時其實它肩負像穩定物價或者艱困地區 艱苦地區的這些物資的運送等等那如果說像我們現在據點越來越少我們又沒有辦法它因為至少它如果"},{"start":3120.227,"end":3136.165,"text":"賣了然後它的營運這些都還會有固定的%數會給部隊嘛還會反饋回去所以我們在這些部分比如說像有一些就是文具紙張或者能夠採購的我覺得應該要盡量在我們的這個"},{"start":3139.969,"end":3168.772,"text":"就是我們的福利站這邊去採購而不是你都在我們的7-11或什麼這些民間的據點去買或者甚至台穎供應契約那個好像也沒有必要因為我們還是必須讓這些福利站可以真實的存在因為我們一直在叫他們要增加收入增加收入可是我們自己都沒有跟他買那他會很難生存他主要存在的目的我們還是要去設想這個部分我們要特別提出來"},{"start":3172.934,"end":3189.317,"text":"謝謝謝謝馬文君委員那我們第三案就是偵掠一百萬元那第四案請說明第三位馬文君委員針對陸軍的新型步槍以上委員說明了建請同意修正為檢列五百萬請委員指導請馬委員"},{"start":3193.579,"end":3216.511,"text":"對 五百萬啦 我不會記錯OK 同意好 第四案檢列五百萬 第五案請說明第五案委員 馬文君委員 針對修理保養及保固費的一個執行的指導已經委員說明了 建請同意預算照列 請委員指導第五案嗎對 第五 預算照列同意 好 那預算照列第六案"},{"start":3217.762,"end":3221.426,"text":"第六案為馬文君委員針對搬用機槍的自繳與跟委員說明建議減列五百萬那第七案是針對205廠的搬遷的工程也向委員說明減列一千萬第八案為馬文君委員針對彈藥廠製的指導與向委員說明建議修正為減列一千萬以上三案公請委員指導"},{"start":3238.142,"end":3253.508,"text":"就這三個案子其實大概都差不多因為我們像我們的搬用機槍現在是目前延宕交貨那在這個部分我們本來要在205場"},{"start":3255.984,"end":3258.405,"text":"就是機槍要2060艇那總計劃經費4億2889萬這個期程是111年到115年可是現在看起來因為原來我們規劃的是陸軍在112年跟113年要籌獲400艇還有60艇的機槍"},{"start":3279.133,"end":3281.356,"text":"那因為我們205場產線搬遷的緣故所以沒有辦法如期再管制獲得機槍跟這個機箱的裝備所以我們在114年6月開始完成460艇機槍的製作"},{"start":3295.476,"end":3298.919,"text":"那陸軍規劃在114年度應該重獲的400挺機槍雖然還在產製當中可是預估115年度會完成這樣裝備製作那我們這個所有的騎乘大概延到116年度"},{"start":3312.609,"end":3339.311,"text":"這個對我們來說因為當時這個對國軍的戰力可能也會造成相關的影響那第七案也是這個也是205場搬遷的進度落後那相關的一些生產大概也都會受到影響那我們看到第八案也是那大口徑的彈藥我們之前也討論很多這些彈藥我們在台美合作生產線"},{"start":3340.839,"end":3347.082,"text":"落成之前我們本來是規劃在特別預算裡面為了要填補近五年實戰化訓練造成的彈藥消耗還有兵工廠遷移產能交替期的空窗可是我們當時其實都一直跟我們說會如期而且不會影響彈藥的可能我們的不管是存量也好或者我們的運用其實都說不會影響可是我們現在看起來顯然"},{"start":3368.992,"end":3384.882,"text":"產能不足我們所有的彈藥幾乎都還要對外採購那基金當然你們在運用上面沒有問題可是事實上如果205廠存在的目的其實大概就是自製相關的這些彈藥那我們現在這樣子的一個時間差還有我們現在產能不足的狀況都會造成我們的戰力影響那這個也是應該要去神切討論的那還有第九案也一起嘛"},{"start":3397.51,"end":3424.06,"text":"那個第九案的話還沒第九案是跟第十案是一起的那就這些同意預算就剛剛的三減數不過我們特別提出來還有之前可能有發生的一些問題我們陸續還是要提供比較詳細的一個精進的作為跟相關的資料好 謝謝委員第六案減列五百萬元第七案減列一千萬元第八案減列一千萬元那第九案到第四案請說明對 徐委員抱歉"},{"start":3431.392,"end":3451.64,"text":"謝謝主席那就是有關於軍備局因為剛剛這個馬雲軍委員有講到那關於這個搬遷的工程進度落後這件事情那這個第一個大家會擔心說影響整體的戰備第二個有關於就是說我們在國軍權益的部分先前我在質詢的時候有提過就關於我們軍備局205場"},{"start":3454.201,"end":3479.119,"text":"那還包含401啊等等的喔那都有一些問題就是說這個他們的有一些人的薪資喔沒有達到我們行政院的規定的這個1.1倍那我想要問一下就是說呢這個事情到底現在調查的如何那處理好了沒有我覺得趁這個機會剛好我們講到205場是不是也跟大家做一個比較清楚的這個說明"},{"start":3480.28,"end":3500.176,"text":"跟委員說明在委員說明完之後我們回去部長也給我們指導了我們就是依照行政院的命令沒有達到基本工資的1.1倍的我們全部都提列而且在農曆年之前就已經入帳了那你們那時候就是調查說到底有多少人他們當初是未滿1.1倍400多我記得400多是只有205還是加401我一次性的全部檢討的依照委員的指導我不會單獨各場"},{"start":3508.703,"end":3534.037,"text":"所以就是整個準備局裡面有原本有400多位400多位他們的薪資是沒有達到1.1倍然後在農曆年前我們已經全數調整了對沒錯處理完了那另外一個部分就是有關於那個行政院他的這個身心調試假那他當初在法院上面他寫的是說行政院所屬中央及地方各機關包含這個聘僱的"},{"start":3536.819,"end":3549.729,"text":"給價辦法的修正總說明裡面納稅是全體軍公價和聘僱人員都有身心調試價但是我們現在請問一下我們的約顧人員是有還是沒有那有或沒有的原因是什麼這個我"},{"start":3551.77,"end":3562.201,"text":"因為是委員第一次問啦我沒辦法一一回覆這個我會問全管單位加入全管單位我們包含那我們是依照行政院的命令來執行因為我們剛好講到這個205場嘛所以我想說順便把大家205場的這些包含越過人員的權益也跟您這邊做一下了解"},{"start":3569.989,"end":3587.587,"text":"所以我們在搬遷的過程當中除了戰備需求之外那我們的同仁的這個權益那也非常感謝在這個原本這個薪資上面已經做了一個調整那另外就是說身心調適假的部分也拜託再幫我們了解看看好我們會對全管單位來做了解好謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":3589.168,"end":3606.115,"text":"謝謝徐委員那第九條第九案呢第九案委員馬文金委員針對105公里輪行戰車一項委員說明了建請同意減列100萬第十案委員馬文金委員針對我們的研發發展費用的資訊的介入一項委員說明了建議修正減列500萬請委員知道好馬委員謝謝"},{"start":3613.322,"end":3637.61,"text":"不好意思第九案跟第十案因為像第九案這個部分我們在國防部軍備局的生產跟服務作業基金裡面115年大概也編列了研究發展費用將近兩億四千多萬那這個到底是做什麼樣的項目都是不清不楚所以在我們"},{"start":3638.61,"end":3643.591,"text":"看到軍備局有很多其實是自己應該要做的事比如說槍支彈藥的生產製造研發剛剛說在115年度研發費用也有編列2億多可是我們舉個例子來看像憲兵在115年編列了2189萬"},{"start":3658.715,"end":3661.356,"text":"對外採購25組的輕兵器火控系統這個主要是用紅點反射性瞄準鏡的這個部分要加裝在標準導軌上或者像一些要結合限兵限有的槍械要大幅要提升步槍在打擊地面目標跟小型無人機的時候的精準度照理說這個也不是很困難的"},{"start":3683.406,"end":3688.971,"text":"東西或者他這樣的一個裝備那對這個目前也都有一些成熟的產品可是我們看到這些我們編列的這些研發費用也好像沒有做在這裡那這個部分還要用DIO的模式我們覺得這是非常不可取的"},{"start":3703.163,"end":3731.714,"text":"那像第十點也是一樣這個研發費用我們到底是做什麼我們要求提供比較詳細的一些資料每一項的研發用項目是用在哪一個裝備上面因為如果像這些我們自己應該是可以去研發的不然你每年這麼多那像這樣子我們都做不到這個看起來研發費用就會好像消耗太多那這些要提供相關的資料"},{"start":3733.641,"end":3733.964,"text":"謝謝好 徐委員"},{"start":3737.984,"end":3762.427,"text":"有关于那个马委员在这个第9案跟第10案里面有关这个研究发展费用的呃原列是2亿3嘛那因为是这样子就是说当初行政院提的这个特别条例1.25兆的时候里面针对这个军备局的部分有蛮大一部分他是在讲说一些无人机啊然后等等的这个发展嘛对不对有一些在"},{"start":3763.487,"end":3777.477,"text":"行政院統籌計畫是編在中科院的關鍵技術部分那我們當初軍備局裡面編的是這個是不一樣的這個是我們自己軍備局我現在不是講這個研究的我是說當初在1.25兆這個裡面編的時候那跟軍備局有關的這個項目裡面"},{"start":3782.7,"end":3796.033,"text":"那他的這個研發的就是說我的意思說他的研發是分別是說那可能生產的部分是列在當初的特別預算裡面然後研發是列在我們這裡還是說"},{"start":3798.277,"end":3812.951,"text":"特別預算裡面的項目的研發也是原列在原本的特別預算裡面跟委員報告我們軍備局所有的研發都是用我們的自有的基金就是我們沒有用公務預算在執行我們的研發項目"},{"start":3814.232,"end":3831.303,"text":"對對對所以我的意思是說因為當初1.25兆原本的那個不知道大家理不理解我的說法就是說當初1.25兆他不是編了一部分是有跟軍備局有關的嗎那裡面是沒有包含相關的研發嗎對那是產線那個沒有那個沒有研發那是產線沒錯我有講產線的設置的對所以說他這個裡面的沒有研發對因為他沒有研發嘛那所以說在"},{"start":3839.188,"end":3847.192,"text":"相關的這個產線裡面有沒有任何的研發費用是有編列在我們的基金裡面的沒有還是完全都是產稅所以你們在那個"},{"start":3850.783,"end":3857.166,"text":"原本1.25兆裡面的14條產線編的149那個是沒有研發的費用都是台美合作跟設置的部分所以原本的這個原列在1.25兆裡面是不需要研發費用的我們的研發費用都是列在我們的自主基金所以我的意思是說姐妳有聽到我的意思嗎"},{"start":3874.474,"end":3879.517,"text":"就是說他們當初1.25兆這個裡面因為後來這個部分也沒有嘛對不對他沒有編但是問題是我要問的是說這一系列的產線產線的研發費用有沒有在現在的基金裡懂我意思嗎沒有那原本你們要怎麼做呢你要如何作業呢那你的研發費用要怎麼來咧原本的規劃是怎樣你要編在哪裡咧"},{"start":3900.35,"end":3924.719,"text":"我們的研發費用都是依照軍種的五年的建案然後他們未來的武器發展比如說我們105砲車啊就是這樣來的我們跟產線是兩碼事是沒有關聯性的是說那你原本的產線的研發費用你也沒有在那1.25兆裡面我們產線不用研發我們就直接商購跟台美合作啊所以全部都是你那個產線做了之後也都不需要研發不用啊不需要研發OK好知道了謝謝為什麼要台美合作"},{"start":3930.321,"end":3955.937,"text":"因為有一部分是涉及到我們的台美合作這個我們下來再跟委員報告這個部分因為剛剛巧訊委員特別提到的部分我們就討論一下對於產線的部分照理說這些都是我們必須要自製生產的因為這些沒有什麼高難度的而且我們自己都能做"},{"start":3956.277,"end":3973.327,"text":"那你在年度預算裡面沒有編在基金沒有編過去我們都說我們的彈藥生產沒有問題而且在新廠搬遷以後全部都可以符合我們的需求可是你突然在特別預算裡面編這些相關的產線到目前為止我們還沒有追究可是剛剛現在提起來事實上它是有很大的問題它突然冒出來要做這些產線到底是什麼到現在也還沒有交代清楚我們希望"},{"start":3985.914,"end":3993.357,"text":"我們下來之後再跟委員說明因為有些產線不是單純的產線是有火藥的產線的部分我們下來再跟你說因為我們會以為我們過去怎麼會知道其實我們會問這個問題是因為我們會認為說原本1.25兆的這個編列那裡面也會有研發那如果有研發的話我們原本是這樣認為如果有研發的話那我就要了解說是原編列在1.25兆所以它也沒有通過還是說有用到這個發展基金"},{"start":4013.945,"end":4019.727,"text":"那你現在講的很明確就是說沒有在這個發展基金裡面那這一筆那我們就了解了但是因為我們也會覺得說我們做了146億原本的這樣的一個規劃結果裡面竟然不需要任何的研發費用那這個是讓大家對於就是原本這個因為你們未來可能在這個部分還需要你可能用追加啦或者這是你們"},{"start":4037.874,"end":4058.665,"text":"這個賴清德總統說的不管是什麼特別條例追加預算或是編列到明年度都有可能那可能就應該要跟我們說清楚就是說為什麼這些部分的產線是不需要研發費用的不僅沒有編在我們的基金裡面然後未來也不打算編在這個其他的這個裡面這個我覺得還是要講清楚一下主席再補充一下好了"},{"start":4061.877,"end":4073.831,"text":"就這些部分剛剛提到彈藥因為我們大口徑彈藥包括之前30公里、15公里還有強力高能炸藥105公里的戰車彈還有120公里的戰車彈"},{"start":4077.495,"end":4095.252,"text":"其實像這些照理說我們自己都有一些相關的生產能力我們在過去這一段時間大家最詬病的就是第一我們今年的預算還沒有審查通過我們用基金的預算就直接去招標像這樣的彈藥原料這是藐視國會"},{"start":4098.235,"end":4118.656,"text":"這是第一點 第二個剛剛說的這些彈藥我們現在對像這些廠商其實都是很奇怪的廠商這個也是大家不能接受的像大家一直在提的像馬桶商啦水電工程啦像這些廠商其實他都不具備所以像這樣子的彈藥原料他進來以後因為我們先"},{"start":4122.342,"end":4128.314,"text":"現在我們先買了這些彈藥透過這樣的一個管道那未來在產線彈藥的生產上面我們還要自己"},{"start":4131.975,"end":4159.494,"text":"你說要私底下說明嗎我們會向委員說明可是我們還是要很明確的知道像這些因為必須按照制度來我們雖然可以在原料的獲得或者像我們產線應該要怎麼樣去做相關的生產或者原料回來以後我們要怎麼樣去做一些加工跟一些提升可是這些我們希望它都是按照正常的"},{"start":4160.995,"end":4189.289,"text":"採購程序還有正常的制度讓我們的這些生產製造還有這些彈藥的來源都必須要符合比較正常的程序來做好不好好 謝謝這個部分我們希望可以確切的要求委員說明整個我們都要符合基金的管理的作為規定好 謝謝我們第九案宣告減列一百萬元第十案宣告減列五百萬元那第十一案請等一下喔第十一案黃連委員不在不予處理第十二案"},{"start":4190.66,"end":4209.797,"text":"第十二案為林楚瑩委員針對醫療事業的醫療服務及暫時大量傷患收支任務提出指導並凍結預算一百萬元經溝通說明見請同意改列為主決議好謝謝主席我來說明一下就是其實我提這個案子並不是為了就是去"},{"start":4212.355,"end":4240.025,"text":"應該是說我相信在這個我們軍醫系統當中面對現在其他的醫院在針對這個所謂人才的這個吸引方面其實是非常的嚴峻的所以在這邊呢其實本席提這個案子最重要的還是希望說軍醫局能夠把我們這個醫療系統當中這些不論是醫療人員然後包括醫生啊護士等等這些相關護理員等等這些住院人員他們所"},{"start":4240.905,"end":4266.29,"text":"必須要留財的部分把它好好的納入你們成本的考量當中那麼除了薪資之外包括像獎金也要有競爭力然後住宿職員宿舍托育托嬰然後子女照顧甚至於像輪班等等還有職涯發展其實這邊都要一併考納進去那麼我知道這個就是我們的國軍的醫療系統它其實成本還是一直在增加的而且我們平時其實"},{"start":4267.19,"end":4284.463,"text":"是負擔了包括了我們所有的這些軍民所需要的這些醫療動能但是同樣的在這些兩年的部分如果平轉戰的時候他也有必須的這個所謂相關的設備的需求所以我提這個案子只是希望同步思考怎麼樣提升這些服務量呢然後增加醫療的收入所以說"},{"start":4288.366,"end":4302.917,"text":"這個案子的存在並不是去檢討說我們現在進一集在所謂的醫療資源跟成本上面的使用而是希望把對人以及環境的這個部分的需求尤其是流財的這個部分納入你們的考量"},{"start":4303.357,"end":4322.984,"text":"所以我決定可以改成組決議但是希望你們在後續有關於薪資啊生活跟收入平衡還有平轉站等等的整體規劃能夠讓我們的國軍醫院真正能夠留才然後收入提升之外也能撐起我們國防任性的這個部分好 謝謝徐小新委員"},{"start":4325.716,"end":4348.581,"text":"這個有關於這個三種啊就是我們的那個榮民還有現職的就是有一些因為像對有職榮民他們到底什麼時候能夠在三種看就醫是有兼免的啊因為一直都在榮總嘛這個我提過好幾次了那其實我覺得這個很可惜是因為他們其實當初在軍隊裡面的各種體檢他的資料都是留在三種的"},{"start":4349.361,"end":4377.491,"text":"那如果說一直以來就是都要他們可能就有職農民要去榮總的話其實對他們而言是不太公平那我們也去看了這個其他軍警消的部分他們就是不只他們就是他們是各種醫院來說的話他們都是有相關減免的所以反而我們的軍人同袍來說的話在這方面的這個福利是比較差的所以一直都希望能夠做一些調整所以想要問一下就是三種在這個部分什麼時候可以做調整"},{"start":4377.751,"end":4393.536,"text":"所以跟委員報告我這個部分我們已經對於第一個兩個作為第一個就是對於他們的這個不管是掛號還有他們的結案的這些窗口我們都會特別做設立以外呢第二個就是說對於他們有自動命來做這些部分的減免部分我們已經跟退幅會已經達成一個協議了"},{"start":4394.796,"end":4407.095,"text":"那這個部分來講應該是在這幾個月他們在做這個提案跟預算進來之後我們就會馬上就會去做這個公告跟做對這些這個醫療的部分來給他做一些優勉謝謝"},{"start":4409.224,"end":4425.802,"text":"好謝謝那我們這一案就是動結改列為主決議第13案請繼續第13案為馬文軍委員針對國軍各福利戰整體獲利能力提出指導並減列10萬元進溝通說明件請同意預算照列好同意預算照列"},{"start":4426.843,"end":4443.955,"text":"第十四案,請說明第十四案也是福利品的現行配送的檢討,以致委員辦公室說明,依委員提案辦理好,那詔案辦理第十五案第十五案,為馬軍委員針對報紙的發行現況的改善,以行銷策略提案,以致委員辦公室說明,依委員提案辦理"},{"start":4444.275,"end":4465.234,"text":"召喚通過第16案第16案已到委員辦公室說明依委員提案辦理召喚通過第17案第17案已至委員辦公室說明依委員提案辦理召喚通過第18案第18案已至委員辦公室說明依委員提案辦理召喚通過第19案第19案已到委員辦公室說明依委員提案辦理召喚通過第20案黃榮委員不在不予處理21案黃榮委員不在不予處理第23案"},{"start":4467.728,"end":4481.635,"text":"第二十二案到二十三案請說明第二十二案是黃委員的提案已交委員辦公室說明件請提改列組決議黃委員再部署第二十三案二十三案為"},{"start":4484.129,"end":4499.185,"text":"好 那就凍結改列組決議第二十二案凍結改列組決議第二十三案二十三案為王定宇委員針對這個眷村文化的業務費用的凍結一百萬元提案一到委員辦公室說明建請同意預算照列"},{"start":4501.403,"end":4524.331,"text":"沒有好那王委員沒有意見那就同意預算第23案預算照列第24案請說明第24案為馬俊委員提案以自委員方式說明建請依照委員的提案辦理照案通過第25案第25案已到委員方式說明依委員提案辦理照案通過第26案第26案已到委員方式說明依委員提案辦理照案通過第27案第27案以自委員方式說明依委員提案辦理照案通過第28案"},{"start":4526.192,"end":4549.329,"text":"二十八案已到委員辦公室說明 議員提案辦理這案通過第二十九案二十九案已到委員辦公室說明 議員提案辦理這案通過第三十案三十二案已到委員辦公室說明 議員提案辦理這案通過第三十一案三十一案王定義委員不在不予處理第三十二案請說明第三十二案為王定義委員針對軍教基金的科研成果商業化的開源節流執行成效提出指導"},{"start":4550.458,"end":4555.651,"text":"那這個基向委員說明現請同意預算照列請王委員好這個"},{"start":4559.929,"end":4584.123,"text":"國防大學這個基金那時候我們協助創立的那當然這是鼓勵你們希望把這些經費留下來再好好教育的部分所以預算我沒有意見你們照例沒問題另外對我們軍事相關院校本席有提一個修正修法案是希望在軍事院校裡面增設文職的副校長那國防部也同意我在這邊請趙偉"},{"start":4586.484,"end":4612.771,"text":"趕快能夠看能不能排審因為我們現在軍事學校裡面當然還是軍人裡面的邊接各方面還是軍事的邊接但是像國防大學國管院那一邊或者像國防醫學院這裡能夠有一個增設我們不去影響軍人的編制增設一個文職的副校長來自學術界他可以強化一點我們在軍事院校裡面學術的管理"},{"start":4613.451,"end":4627.916,"text":"文職人員的管理能夠更趨近於文學校那這在美國或者歐洲的軍事院校其實有這個設計就是專職的文職副校長那這個條例也經過跟國防部討論過國防部都樂見所以我這邊是請趙偉若有時間的話是不是能夠排審謝謝"},{"start":4632.638,"end":4656.037,"text":"謝謝王委員那第32案就是同意預算照例第三十三案 黃委員不在不予處理第三十四案 請說明第三十四案為馬文君委員針對銀改基金的移管及釋出進度提出指導並增列五億元進向委員辦公室說明建請同意下修為增列五千萬元"},{"start":4658.827,"end":4683.926,"text":"那同意下修增列五千萬元對 講過了 已經跟說明過了OK 好 那同意招列下修五千萬元第三十五案黃能貨員不在不予處理第三十六案請說明第三十六案委員馬文金針對資安營區興建工程 以上委員說明了 建請同意預算招列因為那個預算是沒有增加的啦 就是已經說明過了"},{"start":4687.389,"end":4715.38,"text":"好 同意好 第三十六案同意預算照列第三十七案黃瀾委員不在不予處理第三十八案馬文君委員提案請說明第三十八案到四十一案分別委員馬文君委員針對老秀銀色的工程的執行你向委員說明了 建議同意併案檢列八千萬同意好 三十八案到四十一案併案抱歉三十七案到四十一案同意"},{"start":4717.742,"end":4719.745,"text":"38案到第41案同意併案3.8千萬元"},{"start":4722.671,"end":4724.491,"text":"第四十二案 三十八到四十一案對啊 四十一也是都是並類的不過是 主席謝謝那四十一案我們要稍微提醒一下因為這些都一樣我們有很多國軍植物宿舍還有相關的銀社等等這些興建的工程或者整建的工程那我們四十一案有特別提到復興鋼銀區的工程它除了進度落後以外"},{"start":4751.218,"end":4758.384,"text":"又遭到附近居民一直在陳情指出工地從五月份開始違規排放廢水那污染當地的水膜坑溪還有一些支流灌溉的水源這是非常嚴重的事情雖然我們都說那是廠商的問題可是我們都有一些我們這個應該都是有專管公司還有建築師因為不可以只計法"},{"start":4779.981,"end":4802.642,"text":"對於我們來說大家就是把帳算在國軍的身上那你今天可以公然的違規排放廢水那也是很嚴重的問題所以尤其是灌溉水源受到污染其實它對於一些農作的影響也都很大所以這個部分又牽涉到那個關渡平原的農民他們相關的一些生產那這個部分"},{"start":4804.944,"end":4821.191,"text":"環保因為如果說我們有計法他就不會再發生第二次因為他連續他有發生第二次那民眾陳情至少就有六件還有稽查有11件那去告發也都有相關的成立的案件兩件兩件舉發單確實"},{"start":4824.952,"end":4839.176,"text":"這個就是不能發生啦因為你如果專管公司我們給那麼多錢那他像這一些他都沒有辦法做到他本身應該要更嚴厲的去懲處我覺得這是應該要做的那就這個部分我們是同意這樣的簡略的部分可是我們還是希望不要再發生相關的事情這個部分一定要做到他計法是罰誰"},{"start":4849.525,"end":4870.522,"text":"三個懲罰 莊管 監照跟營造商並且按照上次委員所指導的我們會把這個案子的履約的時機有計法的都註記他下次就有立標就會跑出來了他反鎖過這些錯誤的一定會留下痕跡可是他們的痕跡好像對他們都沒有用到時候是由評審委員會去處理我們會把他列出來"},{"start":4871.002,"end":4898.503,"text":"這個部分我們後續可能會再加強這個部分因為我們所有的我看PCM或什麼國軍的大概就那幾家可是不管是進度落後或是發生什麼樣問題它就像剛剛局長說的其實它有留下痕跡可是那個痕跡對它來說都不重要所以這個部分我們還是要求一定要去強化這個可能相關的組織局可能也可以去重視一下因為它牽涉到的非常多的單位"},{"start":4899.544,"end":4920.677,"text":"好 謝謝第42案黃委員不在不予處理第43案請說明43到44為馬文堅委員針對工程及設施減淺工程以上委員說明 建起同意併案減淚2000萬就是那個軍博館43就是航特部的 行外的 44案就是軍博館的"},{"start":4929.665,"end":4942.135,"text":"44是減劣 你是把115年度減劣下來而已對 就是兩岸 43跟44 上次跟委員講過了兩岸就並列減劣2000萬好啊 俱樂館的進度現在怎麼樣進度目前正常 有正常嗎 我們已經往後延他就不可以說是正常了 他今年本來應該要完成"},{"start":4959.165,"end":4973.091,"text":"已經依照土方的處理規範已經運走了現在北部地區就是台北港都是一個合法的這個是後續就依照台北港的管理這個是由國土署負責這沒問題了好謝謝第43案到第44案並案檢列2000萬元"},{"start":4986.409,"end":4994.224,"text":"第45案第45案 王定宇委員針對國軍營設及設施改變基金的財務健全以上委員說明見解 委員同意 預算照例"},{"start":4996.297,"end":5021.716,"text":"那個引改基金這邊我其實我相信在我們委員會待久都知道我們這些改建案其實PCM也有問題進度常常也有問題然後工程一延宕一延宕追加那個不是10% 20%的問題這是一個老問題了從北部我們知道長安營區啊一直到南部一直到我們那個"},{"start":5022.597,"end":5046.443,"text":"那個前瞻的時候那些飛彈的彈庫等等那這到底問題在哪裡每一次我們都提都希望看到一個比較徹底的改善方案今天副部長列席這個可能你要跳脫盒子外面找一些營建方面的專家來跟軍備局來討論就是說為什麼我們的工程常常會延宕"},{"start":5048.5,"end":5069.525,"text":"甚至於我們曾經看過一個個案那時候我印象零儲英委員有提到一個PCM把你們所有的營區綁住我都不好意思說他叫人家來講這些有的是弊端有的是我們的作業流程問題那軍人弱勢嘛我們軍人就一切按規矩來只要知道你們規矩就把你卡住一卡住一拖拖了幾年之後誤調往上調調17%調幾%"},{"start":5072.817,"end":5099.845,"text":"我們北中南各地的營區都有類似的情形所以我提這個金額不大啦我還是說如果可以的話凍結一百萬我要看到一個你們的預算照列但是你們精進方案這麼多年了我沒有看到一個新的我跟委員說明啦可以嗎好你請說因為上次林柱英也針對我們南部的工程有包含那個PCM的部分嘛"},{"start":5100.385,"end":5113.838,"text":"那還有馬文君委員針對我們這個部分我們部長會特別重視現在所有可行性評估喔的低減前一年的5月31號之前都是部長親自主持你什麼費用什麼項目他來的時候都要親自批的"},{"start":5114.266,"end":5138.38,"text":"偶後叫有發生追加預算或減相減量他就是要把這份查辦出來而且是按照行政院所公告的你是五年後施工三年後施工那個就是那個勿條款你要把它調上去你不要現在編了到時候你給我減相減量發生坑之口跟新竹針對坑之口跟那個那個我們部長也沒辦法接受這個是我部分質問你這個改革方案累死部長OK啦我沒有意見"},{"start":5138.88,"end":5168.34,"text":"沒有我們部長 部長是屬於耗材不是定根件啦 那個耗掉喔但我要講的那個不是辦法啦你想想看喔 你們軍事博物館追加幾趴一直到南部 炮校啦你剛才講那個坑子口啦甚至於海軍現在很大的左營那些案子我們都有看到類似 我這裡面我不講說是我們裡面有什麼人模不彰 我不是這樣講我的意思是我們這一套方法被業界熟悉了啦"},{"start":5169.522,"end":5178.341,"text":"然後你們的招標方式我們看一下其他的交通部的工程其他的工程有沒有類似大量的土木營建工程的延宕"},{"start":5179.659,"end":5198.305,"text":"巨額的追加如果他們都有那就是全國的現象但是如果他們沒有只有我們那他們的招標的方式他們的定價的方式確實有值得我們參考我在此的意思就是我們軍方我看十來年了每個工程幾乎都有這樣進行然後"},{"start":5200.146,"end":5226.611,"text":"那個一些小的個案啊 辦公啊 棄標的那個我都不講我想的是整體的 像你自己去統計嘛我們整體的國防部的土木營建哪個不延宕 哪個不追加那這是 這個問題所以我提個凍結一百萬 其實是我是希望看到你們有一個每年那麼多精進那越精越進啦 到最後都是一樣啦所以我跟你講 你剛才說讓部長去核然後呢 把未來要物調的放在裡面然後以後追加辦"},{"start":5227.651,"end":5240.406,"text":"我跟你講人不是生的他怎麼知道三年後會發生什麼戰爭會發生什麼東西那合理的調整我就不用了嘛你懂我意思嗎你們的延宕才是延宕才是討治追加的原因"},{"start":5241.718,"end":5268.405,"text":"它本身就是因所以為什麼會常常工程會有延誤有的工程工區裡面工沒有派足啊我昨天講了當時拋銷都這樣子啊沒有派足然後等到我們要去看他就把別的工地的工再派來有很多原因啦我是建議參考一下其他同樣屬於公務工程類的人家有沒有類似的情形那別人的方法是什麼拿來給官方參考好不好那你要照例我們意見啦"},{"start":5269.045,"end":5285.661,"text":"我們按照委員的指導我們去調所有的公共工程的相關的他們是否有延宕他們假如真的是沒有延宕我們是一定要去做經濟的部分我們會依照委員的指導來辦理好 謝謝第45案 趙烈接下來還有新增的組決議請歷史人員宣讀"},{"start":5288.547,"end":5306.404,"text":"第45至1案,国防部军医局因此训读管国军医院精进医疗收入成本分析,提升营运绩效,招揽及留任优质医护人员,并施行多元班别增加弹性工持,健全留任奖金制度,专精军医。"},{"start":5307.465,"end":5335.564,"text":"職癌資技術發展持續完善薪資福利待遇及職場教保中心以因應當前國防醫療戰備任務及提供居民病人更優質的醫療照護體驗人委員林楚英等人事實指責案國防部應落實管制懷人新春之改進進度及補助發放期程以確保後續安置作業及原眷戶之權益體驗人委員黃仁等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":5338.84,"end":5366.495,"text":"依改列組決議之提案辦理45之一案 遭案通過第45之二案依改列組決議之提案辦理第45之二案 遭案通過15年度中央政府總預算部署單位預算關於國防部非營業基金計四項基金案已處理完畢送請財政委員會會診後提辦院會請問院會審議前是否有交由長團協商不用不用不用好 院會審議時推派因為委員處不用說明請推派"},{"start":5370.071,"end":5379.3,"text":"好謝謝本次預算審查如果有預算科目金額或物質授權議事人員調整6月17及18日為兩日一次會現在散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}