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報告委員會出席委員已逐法定人數現在開會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第五會期教育及文化委員會第十五次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一五年六月十一日上午九十一分至下午四十十二分地點本院勤選樓101會議室出席委員柯尊委員等十二人列席委員林倩琪委員等四人列席人員教育部常務次長朱俊章算同有關人員主席羅昭基委員庭委報告事項"},{"start":1277.808,"end":1287.27,"text":"宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項審查委員柯子恩等18人拟據高級中等教育法第20條條文修正草案案等86案"},{"start":1291.806,"end":1310.366,"text":"本日會議有委員柯志恩等15人提出質詢軍經教育部常務次長周俊彰及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員戶坤啟林議警徐欣穎提出素面質詢決議一 報告及詢問完畢二 對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料後未及答覆部分請相關機關建樹與素面答覆"},{"start":1311.488,"end":1326.389,"text":"3.高級中等教育法第20條條文相關修正草案已全部審查完畢並按理據審查報告提請院會公決需交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅昭級委員聽委補充說明審查結果第20條保留送院會處理是"},{"start":1327.21,"end":1353.153,"text":"导集中等教育法第58条条文相关修正草案已全部审查完均并按理据审查报告提请宴会公决需交由党团协商宴会讨论时有楼召集委员庭委补充说明审查结果第58条含修正动议保留送宴会处理五大学法第35条条文相关修正草案已全部审查完均并按理据审查报告提请宴会公决需交由党团协商"},{"start":1353.914,"end":1382.933,"text":"院會討論時由羅昭級委員聽委補充說明審查結果如下第35條含修正動議保留送院會處理附帶決議議案保留送院會處理六專科學校法第44條相關修正草案以全部審查環境並按理據審查報告提請院會公決需交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅昭級委員聽委補充說明審查結果如下一第44條含修正動議保留送院會處理"},{"start":1383.974,"end":1409.896,"text":"二、互帶決議案保留送院會處理七、學校午餐及飲食教育條例相關草案另定期繼續審查八、在不影響條文文藝前提下文字條冊標點符號為統一體力授權醫事人員整理經表決通過提案一項宣讀完畢請問各位委員上次會議之路有錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":1414.738,"end":1437.29,"text":"好 議事錄確定本任會議上午議程是繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會所屬單位預算案行政院國家科學技術發展中基金以及科學園區管理局作業基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":1438.851,"end":1465.708,"text":"115年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心國家太空中心預算案首先介紹在場的委員林益錦委員柯志恩委員陳培育委員郭育琴委員陳秀寶委員接著介紹與會官員"},{"start":1468.516,"end":1497.35,"text":"國家科學及技術委員會主任委員兼國家太空中心董事長吳承文副主任委員林法正副主任委員陳秉宇副主任委員兼國家災害防救科技中心董事長蘇政剛新竹科學園區管理局局長胡世民"},{"start":1499.383,"end":1525.831,"text":"中部科學院區管理局局長許茂興南部科學院區管理局副局長李信昌行政法人國家災害防救科技中心主任陳鴻宇行政法人國家太空中心主任吳宗信財團法人國家實驗研究院副院長林俊良"},{"start":1528.36,"end":1542.896,"text":"財政法人國家同步輻射研究中心主任徐嘉鴻行政院主計總處公務預算處專務委員張正輝基於列席的機關代表請參院名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報紀錄"},{"start":1545.533,"end":1573.828,"text":"現在進行預算案審查國科會所屬單位預算案提案預計154案基金案提案36案行政法人預算提案4案進行討論前先說明預算案的處理方式委員會所提預算提案稅入部分依來源別以項為單位稅出部分以機關別以目或節為單位依序進行處理"},{"start":1575.731,"end":1602.768,"text":"各預算案與處理委員所提之增三提案後其餘未涉及預算部分均與照列預算提案改組決議或修正內容請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名後送交主席台並列入公報紀錄討論時請參閱提案彙整表以及提案本"},{"start":1604.097,"end":1614.42,"text":"請議事人員宣讀預算書跟提案內容並進行討論協商討論時如果新增修正文字決議請議事人員一併宣讀"},{"start":1629.309,"end":1651.196,"text":"好那現在我們就請下去下面來跟大家一起討論謝謝國家快稅及技術委員會及所屬收支部分稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第211項"},{"start":1654.895,"end":1658.798,"text":"預算是1535萬第212項436萬5千元213項590萬元214項南埔科學園區1203萬8千元第三款規劃收入175項39萬8千元176項1159萬7千元177項370萬10千元"},{"start":1684.983,"end":1690.847,"text":"178項792萬4千元第四款財產收入第223項2,285萬元204項1億7,526萬4千元225項5萬5千元226項3萬8千元第七款其他收入221項345萬5千元222項1萬9千元223項"},{"start":1715.206,"end":1736.297,"text":"好 首先先處理稅錄的部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第一項 國家科學及技術委員會 提案案號第一案第二項 9億2千7百3千9萬2千元第三項 5億7千2百3千8萬8千元好"},{"start":1742.624,"end":1750.419,"text":"我們還是因為他科目不同他就一案嘛那有一個是發款收入一個是財產收入好不好那我們第一案"},{"start":1752.429,"end":1772.719,"text":"提案的委員吳佩奕委員好那如果他不在我們就照列不好意思那再來處理第四款財產收入第二二三項國家科學及技術委員會提案號第二案好提案的委員不在的話那我們就照列"},{"start":1776.609,"end":1805.849,"text":"來處理我們現在稅路處理完畢繼續處理稅出的提案處理時以募或結為單位依序由各提案的委員先就提案的內容來進行說明再由機關代表予以回覆然後再依募或結做成決議我們整個一起來處理現在處理部分稅出部分第23款第一項國家科學及技術委員會通案的部分提案案號是從第三案"},{"start":1807.07,"end":1827.485,"text":"國家科學及技術委員會部分我們先看第三案那有沒有委員有意見那提案的委員沒有在好那就不予凍結"},{"start":1828.905,"end":1847.415,"text":"我們就照列以上處理接下來我們要處理的部分是第一幕一般行政 提案案號是從四到十案我們現在請大家舉手好 我們就依序來處理了好 謝謝 請放下 謝謝林議員"},{"start":1852.183,"end":1869.082,"text":"謝主席 我是第四案那這案我要講的是這個霸凌防治的這個相關的議題主要是探討國科會的計畫主持人如果涉及霸凌的話那要不要追回計畫主持的這個相關的費用"},{"start":1870.263,"end":1889.817,"text":"因為這個案我去年也有提過可是國科會給我們的書面報告我真的不是很滿意因為上次的書面報告大致上是說霸凌的定義太模糊那應該考量是否有法令審查依據或者什麼公正審議的機制可是我想我在這個提案說明也有提到"},{"start":1891.838,"end":1906.132,"text":"各級法院已經有累積一定的見解在講霸凌如何定義那勞動部的新的這個職安法的修正案也有納入霸凌的專章那我想國科會就沒有辦法說就"},{"start":1907.533,"end":1933.688,"text":"說沒有依據而就是推卸相關的這個監督的責任所以我在這邊是真心期待國科會能參考指南法的精神然後去研擬明文的辦法然後來完善這個國科會這個業務範圍內這個霸凌零容忍的這個目標那至於動多少我再跟大家一起並處理以上 謝謝好 下一位柯政委員"},{"start":1934.744,"end":1961.323,"text":"好我是第八案我想所以你看到的是雜項設備費好像每年在增加那今年是增加汰換的考勤機會議室音響我覺得我在去年的時候其實也提出了為什麼每年都要這樣子的這個汰換這個投影機空氣清潔機碎紙機那你們那時候告訴我解決的方法是說你們告訴我的是因為超過年限說要逐年的汰換那我們在審預算書的時候我說實在我也沒看到細節嘛"},{"start":1961.903,"end":1990.627,"text":"我们需要国客会更进一步来告诉我们一些指标那因为你们有来沟通所以说对于一些所谓相关设备的汰换年限都是依照主技术的方式来去做这样一个处理所以我是同意改为主决议但是呢我还是希望我相信国客会在这个所谓行政开支的部分你们会去开源节流我只是很好奇现在都已经是AI数位科技时代为什么还要像你所谓什么碎纸机大量用纸等等之类的"},{"start":1991.187,"end":2006.662,"text":"所以我觉得这个未来还是要朝这个比较数学化的方法来做所以我可以把它改成组决议然后我还要额外再讲根据林盈景刚虽然说那个不在我这次没有提出来不过的确我们也收到很多国客会相关的一些像巴林安街像我过去所提到的这个所谓的捷克"},{"start":2007.683,"end":2022.987,"text":"那這個部分裡面也有很多不同的受害者他們的情緒上是需要被安撫我也知道國科會做了一些的處置那很顯然是這個霸凌跟被霸凌都有他們各自的一個說法但是這種東西如果不斷的延伸沒有一個斷點的話說實在對國科會不管是在"},{"start":2026.068,"end":2041.673,"text":"海外的这样大家都很辛苦了这个东西还是会影响到国客会的这些声誉所以我个人认为说这个部分还是依据刚刚所提到的虽然不是同一个案件但是还希望能够给我们一个更明确的不管两方的这个部分我觉得这个是很有其必要去处理的"},{"start":2048.92,"end":2071.603,"text":"謝謝主席 在這個部分我的案子是第六案第六案主要是針對我們申請國科會的相關補助研究計畫的這些計畫主持人如果有涉及霸凌事件並沒有看到我們國科會這邊有針對這些事件的主持人有一些相關的規範縱使說聘用該主持人的學校有做停聘的處分"},{"start":2072.003,"end":2099.835,"text":"但是國科會這邊沒有比較主動比較積極的作為那所以說變成說這些涉及霸凌事件的人員呢難可以取得國家的補助來進行研究那這個部分呢主要我提這個案子提動金額是兩百萬主要是希望說國科會針對說涉及霸凌事件的主持人能夠有相關規範甚至必要時候要追回已經補助的這個計畫的款項來遏止霸凌的情形"},{"start":2101.796,"end":2116.522,"text":"國會這邊你們是有說明說因應職安法80專章7月1號會開始正式施行你們也在研議相關的辦法這等一下是不是請你們也說明一下以上好 吳立華委員"},{"start":2119.992,"end":2141.411,"text":"好 謝謝主席我這裡是關於第十案我是改動五案那最主要的原因是說因為國科會在我們屏東的酒棚有選址那目前呢就是規劃要做國家的發射場域在這個部分就是水"},{"start":2143.072,"end":2167.503,"text":"還有周邊連外道路延伸的改善拓荒等等那我曾經跟屏東另外兩個委員鍾嘉斌委員徐富奎委員就這個部分有做一個跨部會的一個協調會那目前就是我還沒有看到協調會之後那到底後續的一個進度整備情形如何"},{"start":2168.223,"end":2192.399,"text":"所以在這個地方特別做出這樣的一個要求 以上 謝謝好 我們請機關說明好 有關霸凌的事情如果牽涉到學校的教授 那這個主管機關是教育部教育部會處理 但是國科會 針對如果這個教授執行國科會計畫"},{"start":2194.226,"end":2207.699,"text":"會牽涉到相關學術倫理的問題我們一定也會處理那至於是不是要用更嚴謹的方法針對霸凌的事件相關的這個法令接下來我們會再仔細的檢視"},{"start":2209.801,"end":2226.076,"text":"已經立的法 相關的法令如果國會這邊主政的這個業務有牽涉到因為我們主政的就是還是學術研發的部分那我們也會一併把他納到我們的學術倫理委員會去處理相關的這個法則我先跟這個委員報告"},{"start":2228.524,"end":2234.652,"text":"太空中心跟原民部落的溝通,這一步我們已經啟動了,原來周邊不是被定義在傳統領域,"},{"start":2245.396,"end":2263.444,"text":"相關的活動也牽涉到我們現在也進行跟園民會還有這個屏東縣政府我們也一起努力在跟周邊的這些部落來溝通這個我們會盡量做到這個大家都都同意都滿意的這個階段謝謝"},{"start":2266.4,"end":2279.151,"text":"不好意思我是可以再問一下主委就學術來說的話當然如果老師牽涉到這個所謂霸凌事件學校的性評還有什麼當然學務他們當然都會在做處理可是過去來說國科會就是處理在有關於學術經費的給予的這個層面"},{"start":2281.733,"end":2308.875,"text":"除非学校给这个教授做出停职停聘的处理外他的研究的方式还是可以继续进行那如果说研究继续进行国会是必在这笔的研究预算上面还是需要再给你们以过去来说现在你们也有成立一个学术伦理的委员会会根据这个所谓的就是学校那边没有做出停聘或什么部分你们这边可以跨过学校去做出你们这方面的处理吗"},{"start":2309.255,"end":2330.248,"text":"我們可以處理的就是第一,接受國會計畫補助獎勵等等,那個我們可以處理,是不是要追回或持續給他或者是我們在研究計畫補助的經費,如果他違反相關的規定的話,我們也會收回"},{"start":2331.689,"end":2345.019,"text":"追回他的研究计划的补助即使学校没有做出任何的额外的部分你们牵扯在你们这个地方就在这个计划经费的规矩上面国科会额外上面的处理是国务卿委员"},{"start":2353.73,"end":2364.023,"text":"謝主席那我們現在在這個暗號這個第23款第一項這裡那因為我也有這個"},{"start":2366.189,"end":2388.096,"text":"洞潔的建議主要在基礎科學其實是這個大項裡面的基礎科學研究的部分過去的數據上我們有看到其實預算的實現率常年其實都在七成以下這個項目的細節名稱叫導向型的基礎科學研究的預算執行情形"},{"start":2388.716,"end":2414.676,"text":"這個我們絕對是支持的但是因為我們也不會希望民眾也不會希望看到說好像有一些東西真的不夠了那我們一定這個希望國科會來多編一些那可是如果有一些其實是一直都有剩餘比如說我們剛剛看到的這個導向型基礎科學研究的預算每年都編25億 26億可是結果我們看了每年的實現數"},{"start":2418.239,"end":2433.869,"text":"實現數他都只有17億15億16億到14年只有16億實現率是60%那民眾會有一點比較不容易搞得清楚就說好像有的其他的項目就說沒有預算或缺預算"},{"start":2434.77,"end":2455.26,"text":"可是有一部分的預算卻長年有10億,10億真的很多如果是以這個大學的這個高等研究有一些非科學類科的可能這個金額其實10億對他們來講真的是很高那如果科學類科的基本上可能一年年度的可能100"},{"start":2456.42,"end":2470.198,"text":"一百五十萬這個是跟這個十億的這個沒有花出去的錢真的是差別很大那所以我們還是要表達就是說基礎科學研究我們一定支持但是在溝通的時候也有跟我們講說未來會有加強計畫的徵求目標和宣導"},{"start":2473.883,"end":2491.511,"text":"那這個我想是不是希望也能夠在此做個表達啦就是說請主委關注一下既然已經編了預算要能夠有效率的去用那如果發現說長年喔因為我看到111年開始就是2022年開始22 23 24 25連續四年都是"},{"start":2496.734,"end":2514.228,"text":"60到67%的實現率那要不要乾脆這一筆這一項的預算就應該是直接乾脆編個七成就好了這樣比較不會有讓民眾有錯置感就是說啊那如果把其他三成好幾億或將近十億編到其他地方"},{"start":2515.169,"end":2529.579,"text":"讓其他地方更有餘裕一些不管是AI 量子或者是新式核能或其他的基礎科學研究會不會也是很妥適的做法這個我想我們這裡有先跟國科會溝通過"},{"start":2530.72,"end":2546.069,"text":"那本這個案子呢本席同意是可以先改組決議但也請國會調查一下原因經費用的效能那我們真的是不希望說看到繼續還是只有六成到七成不到的實現率這一點也謝謝主席跟主委謝謝"},{"start":2549.292,"end":2577.009,"text":"好 那首先要先跟葛無軍委員特別報告因為剛剛這一個項目我們已經處理過了但是還是尊重委員的發言那是不是也請我們的主管機關回覆一下好 非常謝謝葛委員的意見這個葛委員的意見我們虛心接受就是因為我們編列這些預算有好幾個專案我們是要向學界廣泛要求邀請大家來提計畫"},{"start":2578.03,"end":2596.188,"text":"那幾乎還要經過嚴格的審查在審查的過程當中如果審查委員覺得提的案子不符我們的水準的話有時候我們就會把他拒絕所以有時候這個執行率就會向委員講但是我們會細心的接受規劃的時候就要更審慎一點謝謝委員"},{"start":2600.708,"end":2629.446,"text":"好 因為委員也在現場所以我們還是處理一下第23款第1項國家科學及技術委員會通案的部分第2號第3案審查的結果是改為主決議因為剛剛委員有提到我們繼續回到我們現在的部分一般行政4到10案現在所有的委員都已經全體發言完畢了那想問一下委員目前有沒有一個收容的數字學協法委員主席謝謝"},{"start":2630.487,"end":2651.004,"text":"因為剛才已經有說明了那我想您剛才是回答克森委員這邊就是說你可以越過學校不是越過學校就是你跟學校單獨是處理這是兩個部分學校有沒有做他們停聘的部分是他們學校但是其實我們國科會這邊會單獨來處理還是會處理是所以這個部分呢我這個案子可以改成主決議謝謝"},{"start":2655.267,"end":2678.973,"text":"好現在一般行政提案案號第四到十案審查結果第五六七八改為主決議除以上個案外我們預算照列那本幕我們合併簡列的部分剛剛委員沒有特別提到那凍結的部分剛剛好像有聽到柯政委員說100是嗎"},{"start":2691.614,"end":2706.583,"text":"不好意思 可以拿麥克風嗎因為它整個一般行政是 總共是6億9 近7億的我覺得如果能夠讓國客會提出更多的一些的部分 凍結100萬應該是無可厚非的吧"},{"start":2710.403,"end":2719.179,"text":"等一下等一下等一下但是想要釐清一下舊案子論案子柯志恩委員您是現在在場委員裡頭唯一有提這一個裡頭而且"},{"start":2722.162,"end":2741.477,"text":"好 所以我們要確認一下因為你個人的提案你已經要改組決議了對不對那除非其他委員有提案的人他堅持要凍結要不然你要 主決議的人你所以我們要把那個那我們其他委員發言都改主決議啦你自己都改主決議了所以我覺得"},{"start":2743.914,"end":2766.346,"text":"那你要動在誰的項目、案子裡面?你自己也要改組決議啊,不能就走歐邦系啊。謝謝,謝謝吳思亞委員。既然這一幕很多委員都改了組決議,那我想我也就給國科會一個機會,那我也改組決議。希望這一幕就照列。"},{"start":2768.595,"end":2791.872,"text":"我是動五萬而已啦但是如果大家好那就改組決議吧還有其他委員有發言嗎好那其他的預算除以上剛剛所提到的45678"},{"start":2795.037,"end":2820.695,"text":"10 改為主決議處理上個案外 預算各照列接處理第二幕國家災害防救科技中心發展計畫提案 案號11到20我們先登記一下好 沒關係先給我們祖密看一下 舉手的"},{"start":2823.305,"end":2824.819,"text":"好 謝謝 我們先從羅志祥委員開始"},{"start":2830.272,"end":2856.671,"text":"那我這邊提案是因為去年發生花蓮馬太安溪的災情那人命的死傷都很龐大那基本上中央政府還是呈現災情預估失準防洪疏進不利的問題那執行防救災過程當中無論通報速度 訊息整合 防災手段指揮方式其實都受到社會輿論蠻多的一些質疑那整個災防中心的預警機制跟"},{"start":2857.612,"end":2881.585,"text":"其他學者團隊的研究狀況也有很多的討論那後來蔡防中心有跟我說明啦那在研究單位的角度他們確實有積極跟政府通報數據跟持續的追蹤跟開發但比較大的問題是中央政府的橫向應對跟決策那我覺得這是中央政府要改進的重點那國科會也有承諾未來會持續"},{"start":2883.126,"end":2898.062,"text":"經濟預警機制的研究和應用把馬灘短時間災情加劇的特性來納入未來評估的參考依據所以這邊我們也同意改組決議希望國科會繼續努力以上吳佩奕委員"},{"start":2905.809,"end":2931.992,"text":"这个我的提案是我们的灾防中心的发展计划那我们看到我们有一个灾防中心收容评估系统可是我们看到在去年的资料里面有170笔这个是收容所它是没有汇到我们的资料库里面然后有58笔的它包括收容所的地址跟它的里边还有收容的人数都是错的那因为这个收容的"},{"start":2932.993,"end":2933.133,"text":"陳秀寶委員"},{"start":2957.097,"end":2970.972,"text":"主要是針對我們極端氣象及水象研究計畫其實我們台灣雖然很小但是其實我們每個地方的氣候的狀況其實差異很大"},{"start":2971.713,"end":2995.622,"text":"那極端氣候也導致說短時間強降雨跟強風甚至在我的地區會有沿海這樣子會嚴重的影響到我們民眾的生活還有對農業及對畜牧業有很大的衝擊所以我提這個案子是希望說我們國會會針對說台灣各地不同的產業跟各地不同的氣候的特性來做一些預警的技術來"},{"start":2997.182,"end":3003.148,"text":"提供給民眾做預防的參考來降低塞壓的損失尤其像我的選區彰化縣我們選區裡面有很多種不同的農作物農作品以及畜牧業養豬養雞鴨還有弱農業都很多多元的但是到"},{"start":3016.74,"end":3034.542,"text":"災害時不同的種類的作物跟家畜他需要不同的防災的措施所以本席會希望說災防中心能夠因應不同的這個作物及家畜呢在災害來臨的之前就先提供給相關的這個防災的措施也來提供給農民作為參考"},{"start":3035.663,"end":3064.867,"text":"那栽房中心是有说明说有跟农业部有合作办理农作物灾害预警平台而且也可以透过LINE来客制化订阅农作物节灾害种类的相关的讯息这个部分本席是肯定的但是我们希望栽房中心跟农业部可以持续的推广而且是能够去符合农民所需要这个面向将农民在灾情来临的时候把这个灾损和农损降到最低那等一下是不是也请你们说明一下以上"},{"start":3068.311,"end":3069.419,"text":"柯子國務卿委員"},{"start":3071.653,"end":3071.793,"text":"我先嗎"},{"start":3102.053,"end":3121.102,"text":"那這個部分是不是也請這邊要稍微再評估這個制度之後那有一些合作的一些成效然後對外揭露那當然我們希望這個國際合作能夠真正轉換成我們的災防的這個能力上的一個提升那這個部分其實我沒有特別堅持我可以改組決議好 以上"},{"start":3124.414,"end":3152.716,"text":"柯政委員我人是第二十案因為你們這樣近年的這個災防中心跟外國的公司部門有簽署不少的這個MOU嘛那大家都知道MOU是要建立彼此之間的交流跟合作的關係不過我好像沒有看到MOU簽完之後比較後續的一些真的落實跟執行的這個績效所以說呢我那時候是認為說你應該來把我們這個績效指標包括這個KPMK把它陳述得更明確一點"},{"start":3153.997,"end":3178.374,"text":"那你们的人也过来跟我们沟通嘛你们当然有说明说是要来分阶段来建制等等还要建立中长期的目标啊记录等等有提出来一个说法啦但是我还是认为未来今年我们可以把它改成组决业但是未来我还是认为既然签了MOU后面的后续的追踪机制的落实我觉得还是有必要去更明确一点啦这对鬼魂会本身也还是一件好的啦好吧吴思耀委员"},{"start":3184.05,"end":3209.222,"text":"謝謝 我的案子13案但這是一個小事就是現在我們災救科技中心都會跟電信業者配合都會做很多的這些測試 系統的測試我只是提醒吳當希你在系統測試前也可以先讓大家事前告知說什麼時候會有什麼災害的系統測試否則你真的會造成大家"},{"start":3210.493,"end":3212.695,"text":"好,還有委員要發言嗎?好,我是第一"},{"start":3238.827,"end":3247.27,"text":"不好意思 第15跟17那15案 這一案我是以這個驗色糊的監測為出發點去討論這個自動化監測與預警的技術"},{"start":3253.712,"end":3279.93,"text":"那不過我們聽預算說明之後有充分了解到這個災防中心其實一直有在提供情資給行政部門那情資也做得相當的完整喔那要怎麼應對未來遇到天災的時候傷亡的財損可以降到最小那這也是我們急迫要做的那就是不只在情收這個上面可以好上加好我們也希望能如實應用在"},{"start":3281.612,"end":3295.031,"text":"活用這些情資所以我這一案可以改成主決議好 那第十七案十七案這一案講的就是災防中心透過跨領域整合提升氣象 人文 海象等監測"},{"start":3297.634,"end":3318.05,"text":"跟預警的能力那強化台灣因應這個極端氣象災害的這個防範跟調適的韌性那同時也有提及這個本年度的這個計畫我們會運用新的數據科學跟新數值預報跟導入這個機器學習跟趨勢的分析技術"},{"start":3318.991,"end":3337.898,"text":"那其實這點我們都很期待說可以用AI精準的分析不過這邊有希望加強這些AI應用的資安的防護因為有好的資安的這個防護我們才有好的情資研判可以應用那這點還希望國科會要多加加油以上好 以上那補充因為我自己是提第十八"},{"start":3349.406,"end":3366.774,"text":"也是凍結100萬那我想跟大家大同小異都是希望說這個實際的計畫能夠有更加能夠有減災管理穩健強化區域我們現在的相關科技"},{"start":3367.754,"end":3386.955,"text":"那但是我覺得沒有具體說明針對災害治理的一個議題 何種法規制度應變的流程 資源的配置所以我提出凍結一百萬那也希望能夠獲得機關的一個說明 然後再來決定以上我們先請主管機關來回應 謝謝"},{"start":3389.386,"end":3415.794,"text":"謝謝召委還有各位委員的指教我覺得各位委員提的意見都非常的好我們會虛心接受來改進那我特別說明一下我們國家災防中心我們的任務非常的明確是我們有組一個專家諮詢委員會那結合我們各部會屬重點是跟我們的天然災害相關的災害相關的一些市政部會"},{"start":3416.514,"end":3444.89,"text":"那各部會其實都有建設很多的這個監測的設備在他們主政的範圍不管是氣象相關的地震相關的風災水災相關的的一些這個災害我們收集資料我們建構分析的模型我們會即時的把所有的累積的資訊跟即時發生的這個資料我們集中在我們的災防中心做立即的分析然後把分析完的情報"},{"start":3446.031,"end":3472.78,"text":"不只是資訊而已把情報讓各部會署的首長可以去做決策這些情報立即送給他們他們會決定說這個情報要怎麼做決策怎麼跟地方政府來連結我們災防中心其實跟地方也都有很多的這個直接聯繫的管道但是我們聯繫的時候還是以災害資訊收集完以後分析的結果為主可是決策還是各部會署剛剛有提到說譬如說農業以農業來講"},{"start":3475.461,"end":3493.368,"text":"直接接觸到農民的是我們的農業部跟地方的這個農業局處那他們會跟地方政府會密切的的這個配合真正做決策還是地方政府首長他們會去做決策我們不能帶帶他們做決策所以有時候這個這個會有一點這個時間啊判斷"},{"start":3497.934,"end":3526.169,"text":"觀點不太一樣的這種落差因為地方政府才是了解地方的狀態他們要負政策的責任中央政府是來協助他們有些是中央政府統籌各部會的我們災防中心會來做情報的分析來提供至於這個測試的階段有時候不是我們災防中心我們只是扮演一個平台的角色各部會署或者是甚至到地方"},{"start":3527.369,"end":3555.729,"text":"連結到廠商等等他們有時候在平台上的操作會有一些失誤還沒有測試完就讓民眾接觸到這個我們會加強跟我們合作的各部會署來避免這種事情以後再發生在平台上我們這種安全的機制做得更好剛剛還提到治安等等這些問題我們都會改善那至於剛剛有提到說我們情報收集的時候"},{"start":3556.63,"end":3570.945,"text":"包含剛剛講的那個收容的人數這個問題絕對不是災防中心可以去直接去統計一定是地方要報上來我們見過這個平台那同樣的我們跟這個中央災害應變中心"},{"start":3572.026,"end":3595.516,"text":"就是中央政府這邊跟地方政府的災害面中心等等這種連繫的管道也是一樣將來我們會希望能夠在這個制度上在科技的工具上我們會加強在自動化避免人為的疏失這一部分我們希望努力往這個方向的發展"},{"start":3596.896,"end":3622.187,"text":"那是不是陳主任你有要補充的地方非常謝謝我想我就針對每一個委員所提的意見那陳委員你剛剛提到那個農業啦還有這些畜牧的部分那災防中心有提供季節曆很特別的季節曆給農業部還有水利署啊那讓他們去做他們的應該預警判斷的東西那我們有幫農業部建置了LINE的官方帳號就給他們那我們也幫農業部創造一個農業的災害期之網"},{"start":3624.929,"end":3628.081,"text":"我想這個都是我們很主動去幫他推廣的部分那剛剛這個"},{"start":3631.879,"end":3659.539,"text":"吳委員所提到的建制的平台不好意思我要打斷一下主任是不是麥克風稍微近一點聲音大聲一點地方包上來的資訊比較亂我們是幫忙地方整合因為它很多東西是重複提報的因為在中央應變中心在判斷的時候它要非常精準的資料所以我們是幫很多地方重複的資料把它縮減所以這個也跟審計部報告過所以這個大概是沒有問題"},{"start":3661.616,"end":3687.771,"text":"剛剛柯委員跟國委員提到我們國際合作追蹤的部分我想我們每年都有跟這些合作的國家他們都有到台灣來接受我們這些的一些教育訓練那如何去進行KPI這些追蹤我想我們會持續來看看到底是如何去把它做得更好我想這是其中的這個部分"},{"start":3689.569,"end":3706.225,"text":"國際合作的部分相當的多尤其我們前一陣子跟美國的國家太平洋防災中心要簽約我們彼此相互有互相的來訪然後我們交換所有的我們的這些合作的項目我想這個部分來跟各位委員報告一下"},{"start":3707.426,"end":3727.892,"text":"其实我觉得你们国客会在未来在写这些报告的时候很显然康组委这样所提到的你们都在前台的建制上面研发还有包括给予各部会都是一个平台的给予嘛你们前也到这个地方嘛那据后续到各地方政府或各部会里面的执行就已经不是在你们的这个范围里面嘛"},{"start":3728.092,"end":3743.179,"text":"所以你们就应该把这个部分因为大家所提出的意见都其实都一样就会把后部会大家执行算在国科会我们给你这个钱的部分所以我们所要求的其实就是你们把该做的研发的平台的建制或等等之类的给各部会你把那个断点放在这边把它"},{"start":3744.319,"end":3748.843,"text":"陳述清楚 那後續的 那不是你們的事這樣說給情緒 要不大家問個問題 都會學會對不對那是你們報告的寫 拜託你們研究單位寫個報告還要人還要在後續來這樣子criticize 這也奇怪好不好 這個其實為什麼到後來寫成主角就是因為你們人過來 我們聽完之後再來改決那為什麼不一開始就在這個層面上就做這樣的部分這是未來可以節省掉一些時間的 好不好"},{"start":3768.8,"end":3790.745,"text":"那我能補充一下趙偉剛剛所提到的減災的部分我們把所有的剛剛所提到的災害情勢的部分就送給中央應變中心然後由中央應變中心來裁決後續的所有的這些執行的工作 謝謝好 第二幕的部分 審查結果 我們先我的提案要改成主決議14案好謝謝主席 我的部分16案也改主決議 謝謝"},{"start":3800.933,"end":3817.823,"text":"好 我先宣告改為主決議的部分是11 13 14 15 16 19 20案那本幕我們現在有沒有委員有意見要簡列多少 凍結多少"},{"start":3824.059,"end":3844.853,"text":"尤其我建議因為是災防嘛災防真的是都很需要的我認為大家因為都改成主決議了督促他們去改善相關的作為那我建議預算是照列 謝謝好 還有其他委員有意見嗎好 委員都沒有意見齁那除以上個案預算照列"},{"start":3849.076,"end":3874.709,"text":"主席 那我17案也改成主決議 謝謝好 17改成主決議 謝謝借處理第三幕國家太空中心發展計畫提案案號21到34案沒關係好那個我第12案改主決議好 謝謝"},{"start":3877.406,"end":3886.777,"text":"那個 對不起 我們再舉手一下好不好 讓我們祖密看一下 抱歉抱歉好 謝謝那我們蔡村州委員祖先 大家好"},{"start":3896.22,"end":3900.223,"text":"針對三十二案在這裡做個說明因為國會會已經有跟本班來說明公共建設計畫的一個審議進度還有環評的一個出審的一個結論補正事項還有地方及部落的一個溝通地方效益規劃方向本席都有對本席有做部分的一個回應本案關鍵在於環評補正"},{"start":3925.16,"end":3936.173,"text":"能否具體的一個完成土地徵收必要性是否充分那部落的參與是否具體的一個實質性那地方效益是否可量化所以呢希望呢"},{"start":3940.077,"end":3944.021,"text":"各位能夠提出書面有五項書面報告一是環評的一個出省的要求補正事項軸向的一個清單還有目前的補正進度及115年8月底送在省之工作期程二就是火箭發射的噪音震動"},{"start":3959.196,"end":3965.261,"text":"空氣污染、交通衝擊、安全風險以及長期生態監測之評估方法還有改善的一個措施三是高市部落還有巴搖部落及地方居民民意的一個意見彙整以及納入或未納入計畫修正之原因第四是地方回饋還有效益的指標包括在地就業、教育場館、地方交通改善"},{"start":3987.199,"end":3996.229,"text":"產業合作觀光跟科普交易這四個事項的一個書面報告提到本辦我就可以改為主決議以上報告好林議員這一幕我有三個案子"},{"start":4008.97,"end":4019.856,"text":"23案23案是對太空中心的期許主要是我們就在於如何把這個學研界飽滿的能量都盡可能可以轉化成這個產業的應用落地的內容"},{"start":4027.061,"end":4047.642,"text":"簡單來說我會希望說太空中心的研發要以這個實際應用為導向那藉由各種方法來讓我們的研發產品都有前進太空或輔助其他物品前進太空的機會那太空中心也有跟我們說明說他們有在做那包括制度化的技術、成熟度的審議機制"},{"start":4048.883,"end":4063.13,"text":"那以這個任務這個驗證為導向那建立這個產業界的對話跟合作平台那也有在跨越的這個整合人才的這個機制所以這案我可以改組決議那希望太空中心在研發跟實際應用的轉換上要持續加油"},{"start":4066.212,"end":4079.623,"text":"那24案 這一案我的提案內容是有關於登月計畫的佈局這個我在總諮詢也有提過就我們太空中心其實要立即去進行哪些技術的事項盤點"},{"start":4081.725,"end":4108.365,"text":"我們不應該說只是單純提供零件的夥伴就誠如TASA來預算說明的時候也有提到所以我們要協助國內的廠商將零組件的整合維持系統跟完整的籌載也就是說我們在國際上的角色不只是關鍵零組件的供應者我們也是要有一個完整的組裝系統能夠向外國提供"},{"start":4110.467,"end":4127.963,"text":"對台灣其實這個對台灣的技術進步至關重要那也是向世界展現說我們可以當一個這個世界民主同盟的太空夥伴那所以這一案我的意思是這樣那也要動多少再請跟大家一起拼那27案"},{"start":4131.025,"end":4150.126,"text":"這一案主要是要請國科會研究太空3D列印的技術外國有個太空研究的網站他有報導說隨著國防、探索及商業應用領域的創新太空技術會取得很大的進展"},{"start":4151.087,"end":4172.096,"text":"那有很多的太空發展的趨勢跟亮點它值得期待那太空3D列印這個技術就是其中之一那這一案我可以改成主決議不過我期待說隨著這個科技前沿的技術我們台灣能跟上這個太空強國的腳步好 以上吳思耀委員我們順著下去 不好意思好"},{"start":4180.421,"end":4206.672,"text":"我第三幕有两个案一个是22跟33我就一起讲都是针对我们TASA太空中心的相关的科普的推广我想人人都有一个太空梦人人从小都想成为这个阿姆斯壮都想登陆月球所以说对于科学的教育跟科普的推广我觉得太空中心可以扮演更好的一个角色"},{"start":4207.492,"end":4225.146,"text":"那以目前我看来我调阅的三个年度112 113 114三个年度到太空中心去预约的团体其实数量都不多了那你们主动开放的这个积极度也不够"},{"start":4226.107,"end":4250.984,"text":"那我包括對照33案因為目前大家都開放在新竹園區裡面的這個衛星整測廠房跟衛星操控中心那現在在規劃中的像台南沙崙的這個整個測試研發基地是不是能夠超前部署把未來的太空科普可以在空間的設計上融入"},{"start":4251.724,"end":4277.594,"text":"或者是現在在宜蘭不是也跟宜蘭大學好像也有一個什麼太空的一個規劃嗎科學園區對跟宜科對接收站那接收站的本身是不是也能夠因為它在這個宜蘭大學的旁邊也是在宜科裡頭是不是就是說讓空間設計裡頭多一點對於未來太空教育的科普的想像就是這樣"},{"start":4278.374,"end":4300.314,"text":"所以不要说疫情是没办法你在住客里面已经空间已经白没了那现在我提出这样子的建议好吗所以这是给你们一个正向的空间规划的建议我22跟33都可以改组决议那希望你们可以承诺往这方面来做要不然以后再回过头来可能就来不及了谢谢"},{"start":4302.947,"end":4331.485,"text":"克森委员我是第21案因为你们的这个绩效的评鉴制度我们都被认为是你们的这个评分的都是由评鉴委员一个比较主观的一个定律没有一些明确量化评分的一个标准这样你会让人家觉得你们这样的评鉴的结果是缺乏鉴别度跟公正性的那当然你们有人来沟通那我觉得你们有提出一点比较能够说服我们就是说你们未来可以"},{"start":4332.305,"end":4361.19,"text":"会往这个把它那个所谓的有效转换为太空的竞争力就是说我们所提出的这部分你们有提出来未来该怎么样去做我觉得这是很重要的因为我们大家给钱就要看你的绩效那你的绩效如面的平均的标准如果是没有办法反映我们认为你们未来可以的太空竞争力那当然要提出来做一些的检讨嘛那你们如果能够提出个很具体的未来的一个方式的话那我可以同意把它改为组织但是这个部分还是要去做好不好"},{"start":4367.711,"end":4384.279,"text":"郭益勤委員好 這一幕我是第25案那我想那個太空科技是屬於長期投入的一個戰略的一個產業那績效的評估就是不要停留在這個服務人士的這些所謂的比較量化上的一個指標那這個部分"},{"start":4385.62,"end":4403.874,"text":"太空中心這邊也有來做一個說明跟報告就是說還要重新再訂這個所謂的比較具體的一個KPI那我想讓國家太空發展的這個資源能夠發揮最大的一個效益這個才是大家的一個目標那這個部分其實我沒有特別堅持可以改組決議好 以上陳秀白委員"},{"start":4409.383,"end":4432.695,"text":"現在就寫在這個部分我的案子是第26案還有第30案26案的部分呢是針對我們的這個太空基礎研究計畫裡面的相關的業務包含辦理持續的這個我們的服務5號7號以及立方者及服務8號這相關的這些衛星及這些應用那去年的8月去年服務"},{"start":4434.056,"end":4451.435,"text":"8號成功的發射並且有全球解析度最高的這個紅邊坡段的這個影像本期的國會會可以持續的積極跟其他部會相關合作來運用這些相關的圖檔那太空車這邊裡面有說明就是說已經建置資料庫來提供給各部會使用"},{"start":4451.815,"end":4466.664,"text":"并且未来会将开启服务包好商业营运来推动我国太空产业价值的应用带动卫星数据分析的服务产值所以这个部分你们说明的很清楚我可以改成主决议第三是案的部分"},{"start":4468.466,"end":4487.424,"text":"我們太空中心從國園願意獨立出來之後就改制為行政法人那顯示說我們也是真的很有決心要在國際間建築這個太空科技的這個競賽那我們自製的這個衛星的福威八號去年成功發射後我們那時候當時的自製率就已經超過80%未來也規劃自製率會達到90%以上"},{"start":4490.967,"end":4500.031,"text":"這個民眾也非常的期待也是非常的支持那本席希望說太空中心你們可以向民眾說明太空產業你們的中程及長程計畫而且對你們的中程長程計畫有奠定相關的時程因為民眾希望知道說我們未來的發展是什麼我們對自己的規劃還有我們自己定的標準目標在哪裡"},{"start":4513.057,"end":4533.77,"text":"這個其實我在質詢的時候有提過但是你們還沒有有這樣很詳細的一些讓民眾可以了解我們現在太空產業到底我們發展的方向我們未來的騎乘的規劃是什麼所以這個部分我會希望說你們可以提供的這個部分給民眾來了解就是說我們非常的關心但是對我們民眾來講太空"},{"start":4535.351,"end":4542.737,"text":"所有相關的研發產業不是遙不可及而是我們隨時可以知道我們想要的資訊以上吳麗娃委員好 謝謝主席我的案子說明是第28案那這個部分我原本是動500那來說明之後我是改動100那今天是可以並動那我說明一下"},{"start":4565.075,"end":4592.844,"text":"因為在五年前制定太空發展法的時候我們其實很肯定也很高興就是在第12條跟第14條有接納尊重在原住民族土地上面就是涉及到原住民族的一個土地跟權利的時候呢我們國家太空中心設置的這個國家發射場域就是要會同原民會依照原基法去做一個部落諮商同意"},{"start":4593.704,"end":4603.488,"text":"那另外就是也必須尊重在地人才的培育產業的鏈結包括一定比例的優先聘僱營造在地產業生活圈去確保這個實體的科技主權跟土地正義並行那這個部分其實我們後來選定的那個選址場域是在九棚"},{"start":4618.753,"end":4647.28,"text":"所以引發這個周邊的鄰近部落嘩然因為酒棚是不需要踐行部落諮商同意但是鄰近的像八窯 高市那個很明確是傳統領域所以這個部分其實在地方仍舊有很多的聲音那當然我們很了解除了沒有踐行部落諮商同意但是形式上的 實質上的我知道就是"},{"start":4647.84,"end":4661.171,"text":"國家太空中心都有去做了這個部分我很了解但是我們仍舊有一些危機感因為部落始終還是非常在意這個問題所以我還是希望說國客會這邊要積極的跟原民會我特別強調跟原民會就"},{"start":4667.216,"end":4687.751,"text":"確認關係部落這個部分一定要跟原民會主動的一同的去跟部落做一個協調如果需要我們從旁協助我們也都很樂意但是我還是要再次強調九棚這個鄰近的他們的土地使用的全屬原本是屬於八窯跟高室"},{"start":4688.771,"end":4710.238,"text":"所以這個關係部落的認定我覺得非常的重要也不要成為未來我們在執行這個國家發射場域的時候它變成一個變數所以這個部分我是覺得非常的重要那我還是希望看到國科會也好國家太空中心也好那會同圓明會"},{"start":4711.198,"end":4726.912,"text":"再去把這個關係部落的部分能夠再做一個強化認定那我是希望從寬認定啦那原民會那個部分我們也會積極的來要求因為這個避免生變我覺得這是很重要的好 謝謝吳佩儀委員"},{"start":4734.123,"end":4737.467,"text":"這個因為每次質詢的時候都給太空中心很多建議啦那因為我們真的我們台灣的太空計畫不只是國家的計畫太空中心的發展也會影響到我們整個太空產業我們目前國內一年的產值就超過三千億這很重要所以我今天提的是主決議一一二到一一四案那我要呼籲"},{"start":4754.024,"end":4760.787,"text":"剛剛吳思瑤委員跟林盈瑾委員的兩個提案第一個是就是希望太空中心可以加強台美合作尤其NASA現在有登月計畫也就提出徵詢合作的這個機會我想我們太空中心要積極去爭取倘若有這個合作的話對台灣的產業來講我覺得是很大的利基"},{"start":4774.252,"end":4797.549,"text":"那第二個是剛剛講到是太空的科普教育那因為我們有收到在這個教學現場的老師反應他們是很希望可以推廣太空的科普可是會問你幾個問題第一個是說他授課時數有時候會被壓縮第二個是說這個他們其實也希望了解更多的這個專業的內容跟背景可能需要相關的資源第三個是太空教具有時候比較昂貴"},{"start":4798.59,"end":4818.062,"text":"有學校不一定有辦法來提供所以我是建議太空中心可以盤點一下資源那跟教育部我們有一個協作如果說教學現場基礎的科學有老師願意來推廣太空的這個教育我覺得非常好那我們盡力來協助那如果跟教育部有需要這個聯繫的地方我們也很樂意來一起來協調謝謝國育行為"},{"start":4823.021,"end":4852.143,"text":"好 這個第三十號我幫確保委員講一下喔這個部分他可以改組決議好 以上好 還有委員要發言嗎好 接下來我自己是二十九案喔那我想我們現在二十九案這邊太空人才的培育計畫我想包括辦理計畫企業的課制課程"},{"start":4853.905,"end":4878.004,"text":"舉辦產業論壇開設學分程序培養太空人才但是我覺得這個實質的培育計畫我們還是要設定一個具體的量化目標包括就業媒合產業投入技術能力的一個提升那我也希望說這個部分應該要明確說明產業的需求連結的程度跟後續的追蹤制度讓我們能夠清楚的了解"},{"start":4878.724,"end":4895.198,"text":"那我們看到中央、成大、淡江、逢甲、校舍都有航太相關科系但是整個整體太空人才的培育我覺得還是有待整合強化那來支應整個產業的發展需求所以我有提出這個部分的一個案子"},{"start":4898.325,"end":4910.083,"text":"再來第31案還是在談論到這個國家火箭發射場這個酒棚的部分開發計畫那環境部目前正在環評審核當中出評出審那"},{"start":4914.289,"end":4942.764,"text":"我想經委員跟地方代表都指出多項的重大疑慮都還沒有釐清包括道路拓寬的工程納入整體的評估噪音震動然後影響的評估合理性不足那還有火箭燃料種類的空氣汙染的影響的揭露那以及原住民傳統領域的諮商同意程序未完備所以我也希望說能夠加強相關的一個風險控管還有溝通的一個機制"},{"start":4943.685,"end":4944.328,"text":"所以有提出31案"},{"start":4947.301,"end":4974.275,"text":"再來34案該計畫是在討論到這個砂輪建置火箭整合的一個測試發展基地那我想作為相關的火箭關鍵技術的一個基礎設施我們提供科研人員進行火箭原件的一個系統開發製造測試的組裝之用那我們現在這樣子的一個平台從118預計是需要到118年度完工"},{"start":4976.036,"end":4998.582,"text":"才能夠啟動相關的設備建置完工前多項的關鍵測試任務仍需仰賴租賃臨時診的一個廠房辦理其廠地的適用性技術條件還有測試的時程都還有很多的不確定因素也希望能夠聽到主管機關的回應以上"},{"start":5000.197,"end":5019.989,"text":"請住案機關好 謝謝趙偉還有各位委員非常寶貴的意見那這些細節我先請我們太空中心吳主任來一一來回覆好 謝謝各位委員早安我大概統整一下有幾個第一個是國家社長方面現在我想正在積極的就像吳委員講的"},{"start":5021.11,"end":5045.65,"text":"在我想國科會跟原委會還有東中醫會積極的介入讓這整個事更平順另外一件事像林理事委員提的這個有關於這個TRL或者美國的這個月球的登月計畫還有一些3D的列印這叫InSpace的製造這個我想我們大概尤其像第二項這個美國因為美國NASA就是前一陣子開放給"},{"start":5047.311,"end":5072.495,"text":"這個尤其是TASA代表區提案這個正在積極進行中TIL這件事是台灣中心因為它整個的運作是透過這個系統工程它本來每一個審查這TIL就是自然就是隱蔽在裡面所以這個是一直持續的在進行還有剛剛吳佩玉委員講的台美合作就跟剛剛講的一樣這個是非常積極在進行還有一個是科普教育"},{"start":5073.415,"end":5095.196,"text":"這個科普教育其實我們非常積極的進行我們有很多計畫在培養一些高中的總值教師還有種種還有提到我們其實每個禮拜二禮拜四都開放團體的這個來報養大概今年有機會突破一萬個去年大概八千個這個有一些個人參觀的有一些類似Open House我們正在研議看如何進行會比較恰當"},{"start":5096.437,"end":5119.78,"text":"還有像另外吳斯曉委員提到的這個科普開放就是這個問題第二問題就是像宜蘭這個地面設計現在已經有把這些科普相關的概念已經有透過協調會把這些元素把它弄進去還有柯委員講的這個評鑑的標準我們現在已經有follow這個委員的建議把它更量化更precise這樣"},{"start":5120.661,"end":5136.052,"text":"還有我想一個是陳秀髮委員有關於這個伏八的應用這個我們其實積極的在進行這件事情在跨部會協調所以我們大概這兩年有成立一個叫做衛星資料的應用組正式成立一個組專門在做這件事情還有我講大概大概"},{"start":5143.444,"end":5150.097,"text":"我們中長期的太空發展這個太空發展計畫要讓民眾了解的"},{"start":5152.609,"end":5174.736,"text":"其實我們透過很多機會在很多公共的社交媒體都一直在講述太空中心的兩個願景一個是增進國家安全第二個很重要就是要協助建立台灣的太空產業我想這一個非常的清楚然後在我們的三期計畫裡面也有一些量化的指標在裡面有必要我們就可以在更適當的在做功課"},{"start":5175.856,"end":5196.784,"text":"剛才我提到說我們人才培育出了科普我們也有承諾會增加這個產制那會盡量跟我們國科還有科國處也在做這個科普的教育會跟台灣中心連結來推廣然後再來就是說我們人才培育部分還有包含產業界產業的發展"},{"start":5199.265,"end":5214.256,"text":"那產業的發展,太空中心現在在組這個我們整個太空產業的這個供應鏈供應鏈其實台灣沒有其他機構可以做因為太空中心已經發展了三十幾年的我們自主的技術慢慢建立起來那現在我們連結產業界包含"},{"start":5215.137,"end":5238.712,"text":"我們很多的項目本來都是我們自己在太空中心手工打造將來我們就是要結合我們的產業技術授權教他們將來可以做量產的就是自動化智慧製造台灣是很強的那藉由台灣這種科技產業的這個力量我們把它授權到產業我們的福衛八號第一顆衛星已經有84%"},{"start":5240.413,"end":5267.471,"text":"大部分的這個關鍵技術我們自己掌握非關這個安全的技術強項的我們不見得要自己做但是現在已經有84%我們預計要達到九成所有的關鍵的這個零組件都是我們自己做但是將來我們還要做這個系統的設計這個系統設計不是只有衛星本體還有籌載未來這個第六代"},{"start":5270.813,"end":5297.791,"text":"通信的這個標準出來以後我們還要自己能夠設計我們的衛星上的這個通信籌載還有地面站的設備還有使用者的終端設備等等我們希望把這個產業鏈都建起來那將來甚至還有我們的火箭的這個產業我們也要發展所以所有的這些這個關鍵的這個技術我們自己發展還有跟國際合作引進這個國際的合作夥伴"},{"start":5301.014,"end":5327.475,"text":"讓他們跟台灣結合在一起建立我們的產業鏈這一部分我們現在正在積極的進行當中非常感謝各位委員很多寶貴的意見我覺得這些意見都很好我們太空中心都會把它涵蓋進來所以相關的需要跟委員來報告解釋的部分太空中心後續會努力來做這個事情謝謝各位委員"},{"start":5328.075,"end":5347.243,"text":"我可不可以補充一下就是有關你這個沙崙基地它我們預定是2029完工2030開始使用所以我們現在是跟在永康我們是承租這個臨時的場地這都是長期的承租所以這個不確定性應該是比較沒有剛好我們的計畫啟程剛好是"},{"start":5349.024,"end":5374.776,"text":"當到二零二九二零三零的時候這邊剛好轉換過去的時候剛好是有計劃要承接所以應該是不確定性應該是相對的低啊剛剛有人才培育計劃就剛剛我想跟其他委員大概類似還有一個是國家社長還是類似啊這個風險評估我們正在我想在跟原委會在就是一個很重要的協調的過程在降低這個風險以上報告區議員都按照委員的建議我們會來執行好"},{"start":5378.783,"end":5406.722,"text":"我自己也麻煩科普增加的部分會後再跟我討論一下細節好嗎我自己293134改組決議其他的委員還有什麼要發言的嗎好如果都沒有的話我們先來宣告先請問一下在本幕的大家合併有沒有要凍結多少檢列多少"},{"start":5411.909,"end":5431.257,"text":"各委員都沒有意見好 那我現在做宣告對不起吳立華委員請說好第三幕國家太空中心發展計畫提案案號由第21案到34案審查結果"},{"start":5432.898,"end":5437.781,"text":"改為主結域的有21 22 23 25 26 27 29 30 31 32 33 34除以上個案外因為有委員有提出這一個科目我們要凍結100萬對嗎"},{"start":5456.067,"end":5480.789,"text":"好 經大家同意 凍結100萬那並針對各凍結的提案之要求依審查會的決議提出書面報告後 使得凍資補充宣告第12案改為主決議接著處理第4幕財政法人國家實驗研究院發案計畫提案案號由第35案到67案"},{"start":5484.209,"end":5499.405,"text":"好 麻煩請先舉手讓我們先看一下好 謝謝大概都有看到了好 謝謝 請放下35開始好 由第一位羅志強委員"},{"start":5504.349,"end":5523.727,"text":"好 那37案我相當關注AI議題及AI產業發展那在AI時代大家知道算力及國力那這會期也有一些質詢那國研院跟國網中心計畫中涵蓋了許多高效能運算主機目前都在建置當中"},{"start":5524.828,"end":5551.933,"text":"像過去的晶創25、創晉1號等等或之前被注目的超級電腦晶創26號在國際超級電腦年會公布的全球TOP500超級電腦排行榜中排行29名最高實測效能是81.55PF算力雖然有提升這點肯定但我的提案主要關切"},{"start":5552.573,"end":5568.464,"text":"AI競爭時代算力只是第一步那如何落地在產業端應用經濟面產生效果並適合國家發展那需要更多的規劃跟落實那這部分在國科會許多資料當中我個人是比較少看到政府的作為"},{"start":5569.344,"end":5592.538,"text":"但國防中心有來說明說包括大型的計畫跟中小型的企業對接那在健康 醫療 交通等等都有進展也答應未來會如期提出成果所以這邊我也同意改成主決議那希望能夠持續推動國家AI發展跟算力落地那趕快趕上先進國家以上蔡春秋委員"},{"start":5602.057,"end":5617.081,"text":"我針對五十六案做一個說明這個預算規模相當高而且AI算益涉及到國家見證力還有產業禁用及公共資源的分配後續人應要求國科會能夠承諾轉化為可以檢核的一個啟程表以及KPI"},{"start":5629.864,"end":5634.266,"text":"特別是115年底能否如期結標118年底能否如期來提供服務以及新創在這裡要特別要強調就是說國發會必須要來協助中小企業或是"},{"start":5648.172,"end":5650.493,"text":"新創公司能夠跨越這個AI的一個落差讓AI不只是科技大廠的一個專利而是要百工百業都能夠應用的一個新的工具在這裡特別來要求國科會務必要做到"},{"start":5666.198,"end":5691.157,"text":"這樣的一個程度那我可以改主結議那麼請國科會能夠提出工程採購的一個里程碑還有結標跟分包的一個管理AI超級電腦建制期程還有算力的一個配置做一個書面的一個報告那可以改成主結議吳佩奕委員"},{"start":5696.244,"end":5712.838,"text":"我的提案是三九跟四十案那我主要是因為我除了預算說明我另外去看審計部的報告所以有兩個疑問可能鐙輝請說明第一個是有關於國研中心我們給半導體研究中心的這個補助你這個113年的這個使用率"},{"start":5713.879,"end":5733.065,"text":"補助案件怎麼會四成以上都是沒有執行完畢然後甚至有執行的這個金額甚至是未達半數的這個很奇怪然後另外就是你在這個剛剛講這個案件數當中你甚至有24件是執行率是零"},{"start":5734.125,"end":5762.52,"text":"就是卜助金对完全没有使用到这个到底是发生什么样的问题因为半导体研究应该是我们的重点发展才对那第40案的这个同样是我们国人中心国际链接人才研究的这一个案那在审计中的报告里面是说你们113年度是没有国际访问学者人数是零然后另外也说呢你们12跟13年度就是没有延览到这个聘雇的国外研究人员的这个数字"},{"start":5763.641,"end":5780.81,"text":"不過因為國研中心你們另外提供給我的這個計畫的說明這個你們是確實是有研究成果例如國際訪問學者是有14位那怎麼會我們成績部來查核的這個資料跟我們自己提供的落差這麼大這等會也請一併說明好謝謝郭議員"},{"start":5787.48,"end":5813.375,"text":"好那這一幕的部分我是3536那551還有60那針對這個3536的部分我想這個國際合作跟高階科研的人才其實也是非常重要的一個關鍵那這個部分雖然我們的整體就是你們有來說明這個整體的這個進入率已經高達95%但是還是有部分的研究中心還是面臨這個人才的一個缺口"},{"start":5813.715,"end":5834.197,"text":"那這個部分是要如何的強化然後進一步提升我們的這個國際的見證力那這個部分就是到時候再麻煩說明那這個部分我沒有堅持可以改組決議那另外在36的部分就是台德其實一直是我非常關心的部分那除了把這個模型做出來最重要的還是要在應用的一個層面上"},{"start":5834.838,"end":5851.993,"text":"那將來不管是或者目前已經在教育或醫療或法律還有一些就是政府的一些政治治理的部分這個領域有哪些具體的一些成效可能還是要再更進一步的來就是追蹤那個成效的部分"},{"start":5852.734,"end":5877.386,"text":"好 那這個我也可以改組決議沒有問題但是還是要請這邊要來說明一下那第50跟51的部分第50是沙崙的這個大南方新系股的重要核心的這個計畫那目前為止就是說我們有沒有跟其他各個不同跨部會的委員會有達成哪一些具體的一些事實"},{"start":5878.727,"end":5890.803,"text":"事項那再來就是我們在執行單位當中有沒有建立一個比較明確的一個KPI還有一個就是這樣子的一個進度那在51的部分"},{"start":5892.318,"end":5916.112,"text":"就是AI算力已經成為這個全球科技競爭的一個重要的基礎設施啦那尤其是這個AI跟產業創新的一個核心的資源目前有沒有一個比較符合預定的一個期程那這個建制的期程的這個狀況是如何那也請來說明一下那第60的部分"},{"start":5916.812,"end":5941.272,"text":"好那第60案是這個海洋科技發展計畫當中其實有特別提到就是我們的東部的斷層那台灣地處這個地震跟海洋環繞的一個比較敏感的一個區塊那這個部分是不是我們可以建立一些比方說像深海探測的一個能力有更具有指標上或者是重要的一個"},{"start":5942.273,"end":5971.333,"text":"战略的一个意义那也请这个国务院这边看是不是能够说明有哪一些是已经规划完成技术转移或者是已经国产化的一个实诚对于所谓的国外的设备的技术那这个部分我们是怎么样来做连接那或者是对国外的一些这些设备跟技术上的一个依赖我们是不是有自己能够建构的一个能力那来做这样子的一个防灾或者是科研上的一个强化"},{"start":5971.714,"end":5976.248,"text":"那以上我在這一幕的這些都可以改組決議以上"},{"start":5980.308,"end":6007.17,"text":"陳佩玉委員好 謝謝第四幕我是只有一案編號59其實是要提到關於旋輪案的部分我們知道目前國科會有一個網站是在公布有旋輪案目前看網站上有三個案件可是如果按照國科會的標準你們的說法是說經過審議確定停權超過兩年的非屬情節輕微的案件原則上就會公開可是如果看國科會自己內部統計資料從105年1月統計到今年6月"},{"start":6009.451,"end":6025.338,"text":"總共監獲449件的檢舉案平均一年40件那在你們審議確認違反學論其實達116件也就是每一次件的檢舉就一件會成立目前看到最多樣態是論文抄襲造假變造甚至還有代寫被發現"},{"start":6026.539,"end":6052.054,"text":"那你們的懲處最嚴重的是停權3到10年以上有16個人次但如果對照你們剛剛說的兩年以上情節非屬情節輕微的就會公開可是跟我剛剛念這個數字看起來其實有邏輯上的矛盾要請國科會說明那到底什麼樣的案件是需要公佈的同時在公佈下還要考量研究人員的學術聲譽跟個資法的規定那現在的做法到底可以如何調整"},{"start":6053.175,"end":6075.599,"text":"在國科會相關說明裡面其實還是沒有看到一個比較好的說明我覺得這個部分還是要清楚說明的交代因為其實很多國人對於學輪這件事情大家是有很大的爭議我們當然希望補助所有的研究人員我們也希望促成所有的學術進步但是如果相關的學輪案甚至公佈的辦法都沒有公開透明我覺得大家還是會有非常多的擔心以上柯政府委員"},{"start":6081.024,"end":6096.334,"text":"好,在第四幕當中我提出了三案,我也提出了凍結,特別是42跟44,這可以來做個並動那你42案是有關國研院有關院務推動的相關預算,我說實在我們辦公室常常收到一些基層同仁的一個反應"},{"start":6097.395,"end":6114.489,"text":"那不管是在这个院本部或是底下的各中心那这个部分就是牵涉到很多基层保管人这基层保管人员他们所肩负的财产的数高达数千件甚至数十亿元那这都已经牵超乎个人可以维护与盘点的一个范围"},{"start":6115.109,"end":6134.702,"text":"如果这个财产的遗失要究责到基层其实让基层是背负非常大的一个风险以国网中心为例的话财产的数量的保管的数量超过是将近5000件而且取得的成本高达49亿你这样算起来你几乎整个台湾半岛研究中心的个人保管价值一个人大概平均分量到6.1亿"},{"start":6136.983,"end":6152.075,"text":"这个压力很大所以说很多人跟我们反映你除了日常业务之外更不可能还要对数千件价值数十元的仪器这个无形资产的进行这个监督一旦发生了这个资产的减损你没有办法来负担我知道现在有很多人要开始负担这个"},{"start":6152.295,"end":6172.293,"text":"然后你说6.1亿平均就算了你现在连国营也把低价值3000到1万的宿务办公耗材也纳入你们那个财产的管控的流程所以你们必须要耗费很多的人力来做这样的盘点然后呢这个完全是不符合成本效益了所以说国科会来说明说你们在"},{"start":6173.353,"end":6177.595,"text":"116年第三季完成之前會減少人工盤點這個負擔那現在距到116年其實還有一些的時間所以我個人認為為什麼要提出這個300萬的凍結其實要督促國會你要給我們一些因為這已經造成一些基層人員心理上的一個負擔我剛說這個共同我現在只是42我還有再另外一個所以你必須要跟這些財產保管的同仁來做一個說明這個"},{"start":6198.085,"end":6199.186,"text":"这个真的是压力很大"},{"start":6227.985,"end":6246.242,"text":"包括支援配偶还有用资深顾问的身份到国外出差主持会议享受所有的福利然后你又拼用自己的清洁担任法律咨询人员案件记仇然后被审计部调查出来的时候呢你就有牵涉到里面这个利益相关人然后你们就没有"},{"start":6247.342,"end":6269.533,"text":"這個利益衝突回憶的審核這是一個還有你們的副主任有財務主管人資主管一人分私三角這是什麼樣的行政的一個變質你們國研院都沒有人才了嗎人才那麼多幹嘛一個人要兼三個所以我不管我剛剛所提到的基層人員的一個壓力或者是有關利益回報的問題為什麼要凍結三百萬其實就是並動的方法"},{"start":6272.654,"end":6298.491,"text":"希望国会能够提出一个很具体的对于这些所谓人以人为主的这样子的一个管理或者是这样部分能够提出一个具体的一个书面的一个说明所以我觉得这两岸我要并动三百然后第57项是有关大南方计划我可以改成主角因为你们说大家都刚刚都有提出来这个有关于电脑的部件的部分里面你们要到118年才能够部件完成那这个中间是变产业是变化非常的快"},{"start":6298.991,"end":6322.932,"text":"那你们这样的部分有没有办法配合这个产业的一个需求你们有来跟我们来做这个扩充计划这部分我可以改成组织可以在人的部分我势必认为这要除非能够提出一个非常完整这个主委各方面我们只是提出这个动机它是一个工具一个手段希望能够让我们这些人的层面里面让国客会可以更加的能够明确不是啊委员"},{"start":6328.178,"end":6354.386,"text":"接續剛剛柯志恩委員講的這個國研院的人力的問題其實我的提案43案可能也是一個關鍵的問題我們長期沒有達到這個還是缺額很多啦所以說你當然一個人就是要減很多位嘛那這個工作的品質壓力這些部分都是我們的人力缺口所以這個部分請主委這邊回應一下我覺得這也是長期的問題"},{"start":6355.826,"end":6383.848,"text":"这是第43案然后再来第52案呢是我个人的一个疑惑金创26当然上路之后我们的算力大幅的提升提升了国家的整体竞争力但是未来我们加上要连续建制的这些都是在临近南部那里所以我们知道以后九城公部门的高效能的运算资源都集中在南部"},{"start":6385.168,"end":6409.144,"text":"這個對於韌性上有沒有需要去思考這個看在專業上譬如說在北部的部分有沒有可能去建置相關的算力基礎設施的可行性當然我不知道像本席的選區是北市科這個韌性跟安全上請國科會來跟我們示意一下那53案其實挺重要也是本席的選區"},{"start":6411.588,"end":6426.189,"text":"2025年4月國研院的高速網路計算中心在我們小就是陽明山那個什麼小油坑那個地方似乎發生因為電池組件過熱起火然後那時候嚇死我們了我們還去"},{"start":6428.131,"end":6448.129,"text":"灘災很擔心釀成森林大火造成4.5公頃的山林受損這是生態一個很大的影響那時候更不要說出動的人力我還拜託內政部每天再跟馬次長通電話那一天然後還包括山上的里長曹里長"},{"start":6449.029,"end":6473.83,"text":"在竹子湖那边大家都很担心那既然知道这个原起的这个酿货的原因我们就需要去检视我们对于整个山区监测的防灾监测的设备供电系统的强化有没有因为这个事件而做了upgrade做了调整以及呢灾害异常的监控跟这个应变"},{"start":6474.878,"end":6502.535,"text":"你們稍後來一併回覆好嗎這是第53案最後6364我就不再贅述了跟多數委員的意見一致我們的這個台德的系統我簡要講就是我認為他當然要優化他要在地化他要更公共化而且努力朝向可以商用化那台德系統的這些部分我的提案在6364等一下尊重大家共同的決定謝謝"},{"start":6505.748,"end":6525.518,"text":"林金委員好 謝謝主席我在這一幕有三案喔那第41案 這案的內容是有關於國研院醫科中心的儀器管理問題我根據這個審計部的報告有指出醫科中心有網站儀器資訊未及時更新"},{"start":6526.218,"end":6546.365,"text":"那機器的使用率不高以至於閒置等問題那國運院來說明有承諾說會建立一個儀器服務與網站的這個資訊管理的這個機制那也會促進這個儀器的退場跟再利用那還有提升自研自治的高階的儀器的效能"},{"start":6547.265,"end":6560.051,"text":"總而言之 醫科中心在這個科技儀器上被指出問題的地方都有這個承諾要持續改進那不過在你們的說明我看到一個很核心的一點是說"},{"start":6564.518,"end":6577.315,"text":"這些儀器到底有沒有服務的時機或者說到底能不能充分接續的被各界利用我想這是一個很重要的一點等一下也請國科會說明一下那另外"},{"start":6580.899,"end":6593.874,"text":"五十四案五十四案這案是提及國研院的計畫中規劃於高效能計畫建置跟維運導入節能冷卻跟治安的機制"},{"start":6596.456,"end":6623.465,"text":"經過國研院的說明有了解到國研院那個國網中心在兼顧這個運算效能跟節能的實務上有設定改善的目標那也承諾說會公開這個節能的效果跟精進的情況所以這一案我就改成主決議不過在這裡我要提醒一下國研院我們如果涉及機器的部分也不一定要照我所說的全公開就也要考量到資安的部分"},{"start":6624.125,"end":6653.084,"text":"就進行必要資訊的公開就好那最後一案是67案那67案這一案我要說的是有關於各部會在智慧機器人戰略上的統合就我來看我認為目前各部會好像是在各做各的事在這個智慧機器人這個戰略產業上好像缺乏統合"},{"start":6654.225,"end":6667.16,"text":"那國歌會有說明說其實跨部會的協調其實是透過有一個智慧機器人產業推動方案推動辦公室在統籌可是這個推動辦公室的名稱來說"},{"start":6669.382,"end":6685.578,"text":"感覺好像有沒有涵蓋到學研端我是很隨意啦不過我們覺得我們應該是要有系統性的來從關鍵技術研發產業生態系啊實際應用來建立一個一統的統一的這個跨部會的治理的架構"},{"start":6687.16,"end":6704.138,"text":"簡單來講我希望看到的是這樣的一個戰略產業可以更跨部會的去連結資源跟整合那也建立回饋的機制這一點也真的期待國科會能帶回去行政院跟其他的部會來共同研議以上"},{"start":6706.369,"end":6716.515,"text":"我幫秀寶委員發言一下齁那個這一幕當中秀寶委員的46、49還有62跟66他可以改組決議 好 以上好 謝謝 以上還有沒有委員要發言好 如果沒有的話 那我是自己是475558"},{"start":6735.693,"end":6751.286,"text":"65案47是有關於人才人才培育那其他委員也有提到那我們還是希望說這個半導體的學院據點還是有欠缺相關的一個對應希望能夠再加強所以提出此案55"},{"start":6756.97,"end":6768.701,"text":"55案是有關於AI運算資料中心的一個建置計畫那我也是覺得整體的規劃跟進度管控有待強化那也希望說提出此案來督促再來58"},{"start":6774.598,"end":6785.668,"text":"58的部分是因為我長期在關心這個動保法規定我們各科學應用機構的設置實驗動物照護及使用委員或小組"},{"start":6787.219,"end":6813.335,"text":"那來負責審查跟監督整個實驗動物的相關權益那為部分學校因為研究機關機構資源不足導致整個運作的流程就是流於形式內部的違規基本上我們很難掌握那相較於美國相關的單位他們透過經費的機制強化外部的監督"},{"start":6814.295,"end":6841.836,"text":"那我國現行還是僅提出了一個同意書的部分對於實質審查的功能還有到底有沒有危害到這個食鹽動物相關的一個福利權益我們還是希望能夠透過有效的外部監督機制的一個設置來強化這個部分這個部分我希望還是要重視啦也希望相關機關能夠回應我一下再來第65案"},{"start":6843.837,"end":6864.207,"text":"那第65案我們對於這個AI這個語言相關的一個精進我們還是希望說這個部分是不是應該要做一個調整滾動式的檢討調升整個績效的指標以利真實反映整個相關的計畫強化績效這部分也希望能夠得到回應 謝謝"},{"start":6868.834,"end":6883.912,"text":"好 謝謝召委還有各位委員有關委員對各個中心 國運院還有各個中心的意見我想請國運院林副院長還有各中心主任可以詳細回答 讓我再重整一下"},{"start":6886.897,"end":6911.709,"text":"好謝謝委員的指導因為這邊項目比較多所以說就容我就這個項目的順序呢一一來跟委員做回應那必要的部分我會請中心主任去做補充那在項目這35這裡呢我郭委員有提到的這個高階人才培育這個部分這個這個這個用的比例比較低不過現在我們現在在113到114年這個人員的利用率已經提升到95%了因為"},{"start":6913.87,"end":6932.566,"text":"國醫院的體系之下是八大研發中心其實都是涉及到國內的高科技人才的需求那各位都知道其實高科技人才的需求在國內這個部分其實有很多的挑戰因為我們半導體這個部分是占很重要的一個部分的比例不過國醫院我們盡最大的努力就是在一般的給這些人員的聘用上面不管是在薪資上面"},{"start":6933.306,"end":6955.512,"text":"或是說他們在一些的住宿環境之上我們都有積極的一些改進的措施所以說這個部分可以預期在明年度開始的話這個部分應該這數據可以往上加強尤其是我們現在在南部要成立這個AI機器人中心這個部分碰到非常大的一個麻煩因為這個部分高科技人才國內是相當欠缺的在南部我們併這部分人才我們發了非常多的心力在處理這一塊"},{"start":6957.052,"end":6958.713,"text":"再來就是說在36案這邊委員也提到泰德的使用有具體的一些追蹤機制等等泰德這個model主要是國內主權AI的概念"},{"start":6972.862,"end":7001.701,"text":"那這個部分是跟國外的這些CHAT GPT不太一樣那這個部分的話呢我們在使用上面其實都是免費的提供給國內的產業界他們來使用就開運軟體這個部分是讓他們來使用的最終在產業這個主權AI的概念去做發展有它的地域的一個特色的那在算力那個部分的話呢就是我們在國防中心這邊有它的一個算力的規劃我們的算力的整體規劃是有三分之一呢是給這個企業界來使用的而這個部分是我們在這個部分所做的一些努力"},{"start":7002.601,"end":7018.65,"text":"那在羅志強委員這邊所提到的有關於的這個AI的這個產業的這個部分的如何漏地等等的有提到這個軟體跟硬體這個部分的那當然硬體這個部分我們那個ITC Center是今年就開放是在現在這個南科這個部分"},{"start":7019.19,"end":7043.083,"text":"那這個AI的算力中心是預計是在117年它就完工了那在118年就會正式啟用這是我們對於國內的這個硬體這個部分的支持如同剛剛所回應到的有三分之一的算力資源是support國內的企業界的發展那在軟體這個部分剛提到的AI的泰德這個部分我們都是免費的跟國內的企業界去做應用的"},{"start":7043.763,"end":7067.398,"text":"那在這個3940這個部分吳培委員所關心的有關於TSRI的這個儀器使用率這個部分我待會請這個TSRI的中心主任去做細部的回應那41案呢林委員所提到的這個這個醫科中心的這個部分的話呢他的一些的這個"},{"start":7069.239,"end":7074.606,"text":"儀器的使用率這個部分呢他沒有去做線上的即時的更新那這個部分"},{"start":7075.962,"end":7101.645,"text":"國際中心他很多設備其實過時了啦那有一些的話就過時的話我們現在策略就是把轉移給一般的大學讓他來使用讓這些機器的他們在前期發展的使用過了以後呢那後端的話讓大學端他們來使用因為這些機器相對是貴的所以說國際中心他們會去做這樣的規劃那未來當然就是我們會在網站上面會及時更新的所有的儀器的使用率我們會照委員的這個建議來去執行"},{"start":7103.166,"end":7108.128,"text":"剛剛吳輝委員提到訪問學者這個部分訪問學者這個部分當然就是我們還在繼續努力不過在去年度已經來我們國運院訪問的國外的學者已經大幅增加比113也增加非常多位大概增加了5、6位左右"},{"start":7124.654,"end":7144.569,"text":"不過這個部分我們還繼續努力因為與國外的這些研究專機構的連結是一直持續的進行當然像是我們在會期之間我們的院長現在正在國外歐洲國家跟一些的研究單位做一些合作的研究的借接目的也是希望能夠邀請更多的國外學者到我們國內這邊來去做交換研究"},{"start":7145.615,"end":7160.347,"text":"那在這個42案跟44案感謝柯委員提供的一些意見關於這些委員關切到國務院所屬的這些儀器設備相當多的確沒有錯 這設備真的是非常多八大中心裡面非常多的設備"},{"start":7161.388,"end":7186.489,"text":"那怎麼去就有些人去做這些設備的一些的管理我們現在有建制一套的這個全新的一個數位的資產管理系統這套系統呢是明年就會上線的那這裡面有很多的一些儀器的設備的這些的點交的話經典的話呢我們透過一些QR Code或是一些Tag等等方式比較先進的方式呢來去做這盤機器的這個儀器的設備的盤點不需要人一件一件這樣太多了"},{"start":7189.45,"end":7213.995,"text":"對我們現在正在建置之中限制一段的話當然還是照原始的方式來執行不過這個部分我們是這個制度一直在去做upgrade因為需要一點時間來去建置這套系統因為儀器設備真的太多了不過限制一段剛剛委員所關心的就是委員這個同仁的這個他的負擔比較重這個部分我們會去調整看看是不是有加更多的一些的同仁一起來去執行這些這個設備的盤點這個動作不過"},{"start":7216.235,"end":7237.389,"text":"比較正式的話是希望在明年度整上線以後我們會在這些設備的盤點之上會更有效率一點需要一點時間那再來就是說呢提到的就是有關於呢在47案這邊呢委員所關心的委員所關心的這個半高體人才培育等等這個部分是一直我們一起關切的一個議題因為"},{"start":7238.59,"end":7262.863,"text":"半導體這個部分的人才培育是不太容易因為常常我們在這個TSRI這邊所培育人才他這個成長茁壯我們就轉移到業界去服務了不過就整個國家的觀點來看半導體人才不管是在國運院也好在國家的所有的一些產業界來說都是對國家都是有貢獻的不過這個部分是我們會持續去吸引一些年輕人才進到我們國運院的半導體中心來去跟我們一起合作"},{"start":7263.763,"end":7293.643,"text":"那在這個五十岸這邊呢郭委員所提到的這個淡南方系股呢有沒有一些跨部會合作的機制其實是有啦這個部分我們一直是跟這個塑化部這邊有一些的合作就是塑化部他們有一些他的一個層次的一個他的一個任務那麼我們國運有進行一些屬於這些算力的這個轉移體制這個部分塑化部這個部分層次是比較高的這些比較通用性的一些的制度建立等等的這個是我們跟部會合作的一些的"},{"start":7294.003,"end":7321.103,"text":"這個機制那在這個51案這邊的話呢郭議員有提到的這個AI的建制的一個期程剛剛有報告過了就是這個算力這個部分是今年度我們建立在這個南科這邊有一個這個Data Center在南科這裡那這個算力中心的話大概就預計在117年完工了那118年可以去正式的去啟用會在這個沙輪這裡"},{"start":7322.924,"end":7345.863,"text":"那再來就是有關於這個53案這邊呢這個吳世耀委員所提到的這個精創對不起在這個吳世耀委員所提到就是有關於這些精創26的設備都聚集在南部是會有一些的在一些的戰時的話會不會有些的危險"},{"start":7351.59,"end":7379.239,"text":"那基本上這些我們在這個Data Center或算力中心在中科在南科跟那個沙輪那邊都有建置的那所有的系統都可以透過這個你的裝置都可以連結不管在哪裡都可以連結的不過如果說就這個硬體的這些的這個算力看的話其實我們分散其實也是備援的概念就是說Data除了在這個主站這邊以外在備援站它有建置系統也是一樣都是這個概念去做建置的"},{"start":7379.739,"end":7388.215,"text":"但未來如果說北部有需要我們可以考慮不過基本上整個的這個規劃都有就這個部分去考慮的就是北中南它的規劃北部就是在新竹這裡對"},{"start":7393.549,"end":7416.537,"text":"對兩套一個是資料備援一個是系統備援兩個層次所以說我們都是分開來去做的其實我們就是北中南現在都有因為南部是最近才建制才開始建制以前都是在北部中部是幾年前在蔡總統的任內我們開始建在中科我們就建設南科是去年才開始建制了"},{"start":7418.078,"end":7433.353,"text":"北部就很多啊,新竹非常多啊,都是可以互相支援的,透過網絡互相支援那未來如果說我們的算力聯盟成立的話呢,事實上我們跟產業界也是大家可以互相支援"},{"start":7435.015,"end":7462.606,"text":"那第23案的這個部分呢林進委員有關心到的這個節能跟運算的效果等等這的確不是沒錯啦這個建制本來就是我們最希望肯勝的因為這些上一陣子非常的耗電怎麼去有效率去支援這個我們都了解這是我們在建制這些基礎的設施的時候他最想第一個想到的一個當然像是一些什麼節能通風等等這些都是在我們建制的時候會有一些充分的考量我們專家在這邊待會"},{"start":7464.347,"end":7477.777,"text":"觀眾可以補充我先回答完在56案這邊的話56案這邊的話我先照這個順序來小維康 對不起我寫的比較亂一點小維康那部分我跟委員回應一下"},{"start":7491.581,"end":7509.897,"text":"因為這邊案子比較多我們已經跟陽明山管理局已經打好這個協議那這個損失賠償部分是廠商來全部負責的那後續的話呢這觀光中心也跟陽明山管理局有合作就是未來的這個生態的監測他們會持續進行"},{"start":7512.935,"end":7535.033,"text":"這個損失賠償過程我可不可以補充一下就是我目前已經幫助那個小伊庚的受災地區3D的公拍都建好3D的模型已經開始在建置未來會導入蘇惠蘭上還有跟中興大學合作來監控它整個復育的過程然後另外看看能不能擴大那個範圍讓養管局可以做一些智慧栽植這一類的損壞賠償是賠給養管局和對"},{"start":7542.334,"end":7551.681,"text":"要查一下記不起來因為他們有談好了他們有賠了啦有賠了 對這個還是要追蹤一下我後續也會跟營養管局再追蹤因為賠償要看"},{"start":7554.011,"end":7578.534,"text":"對不對等 因為其實我覺得生態無價啦我不是說要賠多少錢才 而是說是我們負責那個地方復育完整對 你要復育好但還是讓我知道賠償多少因為我要來追蹤那養管局有沒有把這個貨賠的金額用在防災相關或復育的事情我們之後給我一份報告好 麻煩一下 詳細的這些數據拜託不要再發生 稍等一下"},{"start":7580.736,"end":7601.847,"text":"還是國家公園保護區那各位這邊我再補充一下 剛剛漏掉了 剛剛字寫的比較亂一點就是有關於在國務院之下所轄中心的人員的避嫌等等的這一個部分那的確沒有錯 剛剛之前在這個措施上獲取不是那麼完整不過我們現在對於國務院所有轄下的所有的採購案"},{"start":7603.228,"end":7630.8,"text":"或是說人員的聘用案我們都有一個新的表格表格上面都有一些避嫌的上面的一個選項就是說你在採購的這些核採購的這些主管們或是說你在聘任這些人員的時候主管都需要勾選他對於這些的當事人或是這個採購的案件他是不是有一些利益要去迴避的一些的勾選像是他一打勾的話他本人就要負這個責任的這個部分是有責任的所以說這個部分的新的表格我們都把它建置在這裡面了"},{"start":7632.1,"end":7653.152,"text":"那之前的那些部分的話呢委員會提到的就是說呢這個副主任一人兼三職啦其實沒有錯這部分真的是人員的這個聘任也是不容易啦不過我們現在是盡量就是說呢如果說呢一位副主任不足的話就兩位副主任來去統籌中心的事務一般來說的話我們可以做到就是說呢一位副主任就負責行政"},{"start":7653.832,"end":7675.913,"text":"因為副主任就負責是技術那個部分那這樣的話或許可以達到一個比較好的管理的效果我們在積極尋覓適當的好的人才現在是人才很不容易啦但是要適當要能夠勝任啦所以是短期啦這個通常都是短期啦不會是長期啦所以我們會努力改善"},{"start":7677.054,"end":7701.45,"text":"那157項剛剛柯委員也提到了就是說呢這個泰德的要118年度才可以完成是不是趕上這時代的變化這個部分真的是一個大災難張主任待會再補充一下不過我們現在的這個泰德主要剛剛也俯瞰過了它是一個主權AI的概念我們國家不能沒有自己的這個大圓模型那這個部分我們這個工廠中心所開發的這套系統現在是"},{"start":7702.418,"end":7726.907,"text":"Open免費給所有企業界的使用那我們去鼓勵他們來使用百工百業他們都可以用那這個部分很多的一些Data就只有國內有而已國外是沒有的所以說用這套系統來發展我相信對於國內產業界步入到這個AI的這個年代的話會有一個很大的一個幫忙那剛剛我們所關心的這個我們的建置速度趕不上國外的這個AI進步的速度產業的速度 產業發展的速度"},{"start":7730.085,"end":7753.764,"text":"跟各位委員補充一下我首先先稍微回溯一下洛志強委員提的就是我們栓粒如何落地運用的問題那其實我們基本上透過三個管道來把我們已經建置的栓粒希望能夠很無痛的讓業界學界來使用那學界的部分他們其實已經有一定的能量和技術能力那我們導入以後他們已經開始在使用"},{"start":7754.324,"end":7777.134,"text":"另外我們希望說公部門還有這個中小新創使用的時候呢我們會給他們一個平台來使用那這個平台叫AI RAP那這個RAP的平台呢其實就是讓開發者可以不但是開發而且是借解算力這兩個目的都存在的那所以用這樣的機制呢其實我們希望能夠落地加速這個落地的應用"},{"start":7778.515,"end":7795.467,"text":"我們的策略是扶持不管是學界在做研發還是現在因為有很多新的行政院的方案我們會跟經營部來合作跟事務部來合作那我們在產業界它研發的過程我們是可以補助它的"},{"start":7796.727,"end":7820.339,"text":"因為政府要集中算力嘛 集中建制就不要各部會建很多的算力來輔導廠商那我們國防中心也同步在協助其他的部會我們支持它在研發階段可以優惠使用我們的算力等到它成功以後 我們就轉到商用的平台所以我們的民間也就因為這個樣子"},{"start":7821.42,"end":7843.311,"text":"有很多研發的成果民間覺得後面它可以持續來接受在商業營運的部分讓產業可以起來所以像偉創之通像鴻海也開始在建他們的栓立民間的栓立進來他們要有生意可以做所以我們在鼓勵研發讓民間將來可以接手有更好的產業發展"},{"start":7843.831,"end":7869.238,"text":"你刚刚讲的伪创他们其实都有他们自己的一套系统我现在讲的就是我们政府不但提到就是我们要让一些产业来做转型所以你跟他们民间的部分我觉得应该给予他们这一些特别是中小的这个层面里面要给他们更多的优惠然后提升这样才有办法做传统解决是我们就是在做这个事对有三分之一对啊所以还是给我们最大的需要的不像你刚刚提到伪创那些根本他们说实在他们自己的他们教人家做什么"},{"start":7869.778,"end":7884.591,"text":"當然 對 那我還是比較強調轉型是在我們中小那一塊那必須要著力更多啦好 謝謝委員謝謝柯委員那另外我那個大家要問到很多委員問到沙倫這個新的資料中心的建制"},{"start":7885.211,"end":7899.877,"text":"目前的進度是這樣我們已經完成細部設計那建築執照應該是這個月或下個月初就會拿到然後呢我們也開始招標公開招標所以建築工程本身是沒有延誤的是如我們規劃當中進行"},{"start":7901.878,"end":7925.243,"text":"至於建制跟算力部件的時程配合,基本上委員是對的因為我們117年完工,117年就可以進駐集體,118提供服務但是大南方這個計畫不能等,所以我們在這段時間當中會持續的部件需要的算力先放在國網台南雲端算力中心"},{"start":7926.423,"end":7935.162,"text":"透過這個因為沙崙跟這個我們台南雲端算益中心有非常高速的網路連結那我們希望就是能夠讓產業使用的時候這段時間"},{"start":7938.29,"end":7958.267,"text":"那這個就是我們目前的狀況至於節能方面我們非常感謝委員的指教我們會持續的努力但是也會選擇性的公佈可以公佈的資料謝謝委員的支持我就很快把這個案子報告完58案是委員所提到的委員關心的實驗動物的權益的問題"},{"start":7960.729,"end":7984.23,"text":"那這部分我們是跟農業部合作啦因為他們在這個部分他們有一些比較從源頭這邊來來進行一些什麼實驗動物怎麼去關注到他們一些的權益等等的問題那我們這個這個中心生物中心原來的名字叫國家實驗動物中心就是因為我們關心到這些動物的權益所以說呢未來希望能夠盡量用一些比較數學化一些模式方式來取代"},{"start":7984.87,"end":8000.569,"text":"這些動物的一些的他的一些的實驗上面的一些使用所以說改成是Biomodel的一個Research Center主要目的在這裡不要太借重了太多的一些的活體的一些的動物來去進行實驗那個部分是一直我們在這個部分一直持續努力的一個目標"},{"start":8001.789,"end":8030.151,"text":"那五十九案的這個部分陳培玉委員所關心的這個學徒案這個部分呢這個部分是國科院這邊本身有一個誠信辦公室他們統籌處理這部分的問題那科資中心我們就不處理這個好那待會是不是請國科院這邊再回應那六十案這邊的話呢郭委員所提到的這是有關於這些東部斷層的資料收整等等等等這個部分海洋中心他一直持續在進行那我們現在預計現在在規劃在一個西太平洋的一個"},{"start":8031.092,"end":8059.399,"text":"科學觀測站會在東華大學那邊設點那會正式成立一個觀測的一個資料蒐集的一個中心那部分會去比較詳細的就三度空間的西太平洋這個海域的資料去做一個全面性的蒐集那這個部分的資料蒐集在那邊居然不只是科學研究的一些運用對於國安也是相當重要的所以這個部分是我們在積極規劃之中是由我們的海岸中心在去負責這個部分的案子"},{"start":8060.29,"end":8086.083,"text":"那在陳秀凡委員這邊大家感謝大家的支持就是這些案子對我們的一些指示那吳委員在63 64這邊呢有提到的泰德的優化泰德優化這個是我們在持續進行因為這個案子因為AI的model他不可能是到這邊就停止的不可能是這個樣子全世界所有的AI的model他都一直在引進那待會再請待會我報告你再報告這邊我們會持續去精進這個部分的一些的這個進度"},{"start":8087.503,"end":8110.302,"text":"那在羅林委員所提到的AI的一些的語言的精進跟要有一些精進的指標那這部分待會請這個我們公安中心的張主任一併來去回應那在66案的陳秀白委員之間所提到的這些的我們在這個軟體的發展這個部分的話呢有沒有一些的跨部會的一些的合作等等的其實在"},{"start":8110.962,"end":8138.378,"text":"整體來看大概是這個樣子就是說我們現在整個AI的發展大概分成兩個部分一個是屬於軟體的部分一個是屬於真正的硬體部分就所謂的這個一個是physical AI那physical AI的這個部分的話呢主要還是在這個國務院跟公務院他們去負責發展這個部分那在塑化部那邊的話呢會有一個比較高層次的軟體的這個部分的系統的規劃在進行這個部分呢我們最近才跟塑化部的這個部長才去做這個部分的分工的合作的一個規劃"},{"start":8139.719,"end":8168.908,"text":"那未來的話呢國務院這邊的話呢它的Physical AI主要是support學員界的一些發展那公務院這邊的話呢主要是在於跟這個產業界的對接那我們在這個在六七月這邊的話就也提到這個案子了其實呢現在呢在這個國家在這個機器人發展這個部分的話呢有一個叫做一個PMO有一個這個智慧機器人的產業發展辦公室那我們這邊有這個有執行長在負責規劃這整塊包含是"},{"start":8169.848,"end":8198.772,"text":"整個國家在智慧機器人的發展這個部分的話呢整個機器人跨部會合作包含像經濟部所轄的公營院國營院之下所轄的智慧機器人的發展中心那我們怎麼再跟司法部合作呢這邊有一個李昆忠教授所擔任的一個智慧機器人的產業發展辦公室在做一個統合所以說整個國家在智慧機器人的發展它是一個大家是跨部會合作在一起而不是各自為政的以上簡單先跟委員做這樣的回應那是不是張主任回應一下"},{"start":8199.292,"end":8223.024,"text":"好 我這邊就兩點補充第一個就是沙崙資料中心建置的時程的監控謝謝羅委員的指教我們會把KPI比較詳細化然後讓這個時程的監控更有效率那可能也會就是配合我們大南方計畫發展推展看能不能把它導入這個時程的建置裡面好 那對不起 最後一段還有嗎"},{"start":8224.645,"end":8243.636,"text":"還有一個就是台德的優化目前我們持續台德會一樣跟學界現在是中研院合作那我們目前在做除了優化之外其實我們是把這個scope把它放大也就是說我們會導入台灣自己很強的強項像YOLO模型台灣在地化的voice"},{"start":8244.296,"end":8258.465,"text":"那個Audio方面的模型的訓練那會讓這個以後台德的發展是讓更切合台灣的使用的情境那我們會有一個計畫那主委非常支持這個我們會展開一些新的合作方式"},{"start":8259.666,"end":8288.691,"text":"那這個以上跟各位報告第三是九案我剛剛關心的半導體中心不是儀器使用是研究計畫補助的執行率剛剛有沒有回答到是好那三九案四十案剛剛佩玉委員所關心的這兩個問題的話我們就請半導體中心的主任來回應好那等一下不好意思怎麼樣先回應嗎還是我先講陳秀寶委員在你之前有先舉手我先給陳秀寶再下一個才是你不好意思"},{"start":8289.462,"end":8305.452,"text":"好 謝謝主席我再補充一下其實我這四個案子剛才疫情委員先幫我說我是改組決議的但是我還是要說明一下而且我要跟我們相關的這些單位我要要一些資料在46案的部分主要就是針對我們的"},{"start":8307.133,"end":8332.078,"text":"現在的半導體產業這個人才缺口高達4.1萬所以我希望說國科會這邊要很重視科技業人才缺工的問題那你們有來說明就是除了教育部有辦理這個半導體學員之外也透過學研服務平台實作訓練以及人才培育課程讓我們碩博士生有機會可以掀起的這個實作課程那也已經在"},{"start":8333.291,"end":8350.198,"text":"服務了大概六千五百的人次那平台也提供了超過六萬兩千件的這個服務那這邊也肯定然後也希望說國會這邊持續在提升服務的人次那這個部分呢我想請國會這邊提供你們如何就是提供提高這個"},{"start":8351.499,"end":8380.151,"text":"相關的服務人次的這個部分呢給我一份書面的報告那第49案的部分呢是關於說我們淨寧碳排的這個相關的這個科研的部分那國會裡面有說明說2026淨寧城市有公開展示初步的成效而且在116年你們會啟動新的規劃那會著重在於碳封存技術相關的研發那這個部分呢我希望你把未來這個規劃的相關的這個資料提供給我一份"},{"start":8380.951,"end":8405.94,"text":"那第62案的部分呢主要就是我們主權AI訓練與料庫的這個部分剛剛其實很多委員也非常關心這個部分不管說他現在有一些問題就是說比較難以及時更新還是內容不夠多元的部分就是他的速度太慢了但是你們這邊有說你們會持續的來擴充這個繁體中文及多元的領域這些相關的資料"},{"start":8406.5,"end":8427.39,"text":"目前你們這個也應用在不管是防災、教育、醫療及農業的領域都有未來也希望說透過真案及互惠的合作方式來跟公司協助結合產官學研的需求推動多元領域的應用以及服務發展這個部分我希望你們提供一份比較具體的推廣的計畫"},{"start":8429.771,"end":8441.883,"text":"第66案的部分是针对国家智慧机器人研究中心这个部分你们有说8月就会成立了目前以参与大型国际的展会为主"},{"start":8446.027,"end":8471.961,"text":"那國客會這邊是說你們針對我國的廠商我們廠商針對機器人的運體是有比較多元的規劃了就是說會有比較多元的發展那也會將核心技術落實在後就是辦理關鍵技術展覽跟成果的展演但是我會覺得你們的我們的速度好我們的效率好像還比較跟不上現在整個國際上的這個腳程"},{"start":8473.982,"end":8502.329,"text":"所以這個部分我希望你們可以加緊速度因為在其他的國家已經有就是相關的這樣的技術發表了之後如果我們還停滯在這裡很明顯的就即便說我們自己本身是很多元的在有這樣子的規劃但是好像就是進度是落後的那所以這個部分呢是不是我們未來的這個相關的這個發展未來的期程呢也一份這個書面的這個報告給我辦公室以上謝謝"},{"start":8505,"end":8505.681,"text":"蔡孫中委員因為56案因為沒有做個回應那我在這裡再剛剛這個"},{"start":8519.997,"end":8535.416,"text":"AI 算力剛剛我們柯智恩委員也有提出來我的看法跟他是一樣在這裡也再做一個強調就是說我們要重視新創公司還有中小企業"},{"start":8537.518,"end":8551.202,"text":"不只是要有利於百工百業都能夠應用新的工具未來也要進入到全民都能夠有這樣的一個新的能力在這裡特別再提出來好 待會兒50留案再麻煩機關回應一下吳事要委員"},{"start":8558.626,"end":8587.865,"text":"好 謝謝國科會的說明我的五個案子都改主決議請記錄一下但在那個台德的部分我還是提醒一下當然台德的計畫除了我們國科會我們跟中研院那事實上跟文化部門跟述發部都還有很多要合作的事情那我也再提醒一下台德的內容要多元要收得廣我們其實需要更多名利民間的資料庫"},{"start":8588.866,"end":8613.806,"text":"所以去建立一個如何可以運行的機制讓民間的智慧財產權它願意進來所以我們跟很多的業者主要是我們上一次嘗試跟出版業者座談但後續跟影像業者也是需要的建立一個合理的分論就是什麼樣子的機制讓大家的資訊願意進得來這個pool"},{"start":8615.847,"end":8633.286,"text":"這個非常重要像我上次質詢完之後我有碰到我們的同仁那個廖院長他跟我說有一些可能假設教科書業者他們沒有把教育部門現成的那些內容放進來那就是要去跟他們談他如何願意去釋出他的data"},{"start":8633.926,"end":8657.252,"text":"釋出他的智慧財產權我覺得這個在軟體的機制的配套上其實這是跨部會嚴肅的事情也不是只有國科會這個是政府我想請主委可能要去push國家就像我們對應於政府採購在硬體的部分當然也有一些財務採購還工程會是一個好的機制它有公開的"},{"start":8659.792,"end":8679.852,"text":"機制 然後它有一個這個大家都運用的這個叫做契約範本那在釋出這些資料的本身也要有類似這樣的一個整合性的做法的思維我覺得這是下一步非常重要的那我五個案子該主決議 謝謝好 把它登記起來那下一位業人之委員"},{"start":8684.362,"end":8711.169,"text":"我第38案然後等一下就請國會說明一下但是我也可以改組決議最主要就是因為我們現在國研院國網中心有很多運算主機當然算力AI就是算力最重要沒有錯但其實台灣在軟體這一塊應該也我覺得我們也有我們的潛力在AI軟體比如說商業應用或各方面的應用也應該可以有一些獨角獸出來那是不是也可以說明一下"},{"start":8712.309,"end":8731.758,"text":"這類似就是軟體方面的規劃 應用的部分 謝謝好 還有沒有委員要發言如果沒有的話我們請主管機關回應一下 謝謝好 謝謝剛剛幾位委員剛剛五委員還沒有回應 五委員的這個吳佩奕委員的就請"},{"start":8733.422,"end":8752.691,"text":"就剛剛的問題請班老體中心吳委員各位委員大家好那班老體中心這邊先針對剛剛那個高階人才養成計畫的執行率的部分做一個說明那因為這個計畫比較特別它不是補助錢它是補助這些老師們的這個使用這些高階儀器的額度"},{"start":8753.391,"end":8769.27,"text":"而且他比較特別是說你要東西做完了我們才會算錢所以假設說他的這個開發遇到一些困難或什麼他其實執行到一半他可能沒有做或者沒有做完我們其實是不會算錢所以那個執行率有時候看起來就是會比較有一些落差"},{"start":8769.81,"end":8790.793,"text":"所以我們去年有看到這個問題之後其實也啟動了一個就是動態資源調配的一個機制就是7月份我們就會來檢討那假設老師的使用率不高的話我們會把他剩下的額度轉到其他會比較需要這個老師那這個執行率透過這樣的一個機制之後其實像去年的執行率已經拉到大概"},{"start":8793.155,"end":8808.326,"text":"80幾塊90%這樣的一個程度那所以我們會持續來關注這個部分也會輔導這些做不出來的老師是不是能夠解決他們的問題這樣好謝謝委員好那剛剛那個蔡委員的問題"},{"start":8812.33,"end":8829.82,"text":"剛剛秀華委員所提到的幾個建議案我們都記錄下來的我想那個您所需要的資料我們都會去整理出來再提供給您這邊來去做參考那剛剛議員有提到的這個有關於呢國網的運算主機的這個AI軟體的這個後續的規劃等等的這個部分是請朝亮好"},{"start":8842.762,"end":8861.831,"text":"那蔡委員所提到的有關於呢要重視的這個新創的這個部分的這個百光百業的支持這沒有問題我們國家的這個整個的算力的這個建制呢主要也是說希望能夠藉著國家的這個力量來去幫忙這些中小企業他們可能在"},{"start":8863.011,"end":8880.687,"text":"在一些的軟硬體的資源上面比較不足的這個部分是由國家來去提供這樣的資質所以說剛剛所提到的這個部分的話有關於軟體的這個部分只要是開放軟體的話開放軟體我們都是提供企業界他們還是沒願意來使用的這是不跟他charge的"},{"start":8881.388,"end":8896.099,"text":"那如果說關於到那些的硬體那個部分算力因為是國家投資這個經費比較多啦那這部分也是希望企業家他們的share他們必須負擔的部分所以這個部分是我們是政府跟學業界跟企業界各佔三分之一的比例方式來去進行"},{"start":8896.92,"end":8923.458,"text":"但是這個企業界這個部分我們在考量到他們的部分比較困難所以盡量會給予一些的必要的協助那剛剛吳世耀委員所提到這個混潤機制是一個很好的idea怎麼讓這個AI整個系統的建置讓大家能夠大家一起co-work讓他的整個系統是更完整一點這個部分需要可能在廣場中心在張主任這邊可以思考一下怎麼來進行這個部分這部分不是國網這不是你們的責任這部分是速發部我們對那個"},{"start":8926.78,"end":8944.379,"text":"那個資料創新用條例現在正在處理當中就是我們跟事劃部還有文化部甚至教育部應該是要大家一起要還要跟我們的民間民間能夠得到一個大家的共識謝謝吳委員"},{"start":8948.583,"end":8969.64,"text":"另外剛剛我們召委有提到動物的部分動物部分就是外部監督機制這個有辦法建立起來嗎使用動物做實驗這個事情陳副主委你要回應一下"},{"start":8971.56,"end":8992.545,"text":"如果是國科會的專題計畫的話現在是按照動物保護法的規定那所以他們要做要申請國科會計畫前會經過類似於研究倫理的方式就是會經過研究倫理就是會YRB那實驗動物也會有實驗動物的機制這一部分主管機關就是教育部跟農業部會會一起"},{"start":8994.765,"end":9013.442,"text":"如果違反相關的規定的話他們會去處置但是如果是做研究實驗違反這些規定就會進到如果是國會的研究機構就會進到國會來我們會把他一樣併到我們在學術倫理的部分會去處理這樣不好意思怎麼處理"},{"start":9014.122,"end":9036.657,"text":"所以我的意思還是說因為他跟國會申請經費嘛有沒有什麼外部經費處理的一個因為要跟你們申請他有一個處理的經費機制來做一個外部監控有,如果他有違反的話我們會處罰那處罰在那個學倫案成立以後看看他的輕重我們會去處罰包含追回他的研究經費或者是且啦"},{"start":9043.147,"end":9067.977,"text":"停錢不能再申請獎勵等等有很多的機制所以我說希望設計機制我相信你們遇到了違法你們會處理可是要怎麼樣能夠監測有沒有違法這個過程很重要所以能不能處理相關的一個處理機制流程有表格可以填寫啊然後或者是有外部的監督過程的機制而不是遇到問題"},{"start":9073.521,"end":9088.554,"text":"主管機關的權責是教育部會去盯各個學校實驗動物的部分其實跟研究倫理的狀況是一樣的教育部主管機關他們會去定期去各學校去做督導"},{"start":9089.995,"end":9114.211,"text":"這部分我們深刻數 未來在這個計畫申請的時候就要強調要遵守這些規範但是目前都是以同意書的方式去呈現那所以我就覺得說過程中還是有可能會有一些瑕疵所以是不是還是要比如說你有多少的次數去督導然後這個部分他們有沒有去做"},{"start":9115.131,"end":9124.367,"text":"填合機關的表格然後來回應說不只是同意書這個我有做到那個我有做到這個有沒有一個表格可以讓他們去"},{"start":9125.948,"end":9153.607,"text":"報告委員我們台灣現在是非常自由民主特別是學術自由的部分國會通常不會去一天到晚去騷擾這些學者但是他們如果學校有自己的機制各校我們是讓他們有自主管理那如果說他們真正有違反這些規定一定會被檢舉不管是學生還是民眾還是他的同儕學校的人了解如果去檢舉的話才會進到這個調查"},{"start":9157.149,"end":9164.473,"text":"那這個調查如果真的有違反規定我們會到國科會來我們就會處理他違反這個規定的部分"},{"start":9168.666,"end":9189.546,"text":"那另外陳培偉有提到這個學能案我們公告的部分要怎麼處理好 我有說明一下因為目前按照我們的規定我們是兩年以上會做公開就是他停權兩年以上不含兩年我們會做公開資訊那剛剛培偉委員問到的是我們現在目前公告的"},{"start":9190.426,"end":9206.294,"text":"名單上面是四個人我們只公告四個人的資訊那這個原因其實是兩個一個是停權如果他已經過了停權的年限他本來停權三年我們公告了但是三年已經過了我們就會把他撤下來也就是說他不會是"},{"start":9206.934,"end":9230.633,"text":"一輩子都掛在上頭 他停權如果結束了就會被拿下來那第二個原因是因為我們提供的資料是近10年 近10年的話會有16個人那但是我們的所謂的公開的這個規定是108年 就是6年前才開始所以有個時間差 108年之前是規定是不公開的 所以"},{"start":9232.194,"end":9256.307,"text":"108年之前的違法的案件我們是不能公開的那108年之後才有公開所以這個中間也有個時間差所以大概主要是因為有個時間差還有我們停權之後停權期滿會把它下架大概是這兩個原因所以會造成10年的統計跟目前的網頁上的規定不太一樣不過這個都有規範在走謝謝"},{"start":9261.258,"end":9290.311,"text":"好還有委員有意見嗎好主席要處理預算了嘛對不對那我提我的建議好了喔好對因為我看多數委員都改組決議好那對於科研的投入我個人是認為希望預算可以照列聽大家的意見在場的委員好謝謝好請問各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":9295.503,"end":9299.112,"text":"好那委員沒有意見那我補充一下我對於58"},{"start":9302.012,"end":9325.692,"text":"還是一樣對於這個外部經費的機制監督我尊重主委的說法但是我還是希望說能夠再不打擾研究的情況又有一個外部的監督機制哪怕只是請他們書面的回報或者是書面的填表不要只有一個同意書那我覺得等待"},{"start":9326.973,"end":9354.65,"text":"同學或者是研究人員的檢舉真的是比較偏被動所以我有提出跟美國相關機關他們是透過經費的機制強化外部監督我還是希望你們能夠研擬看看有沒有這樣子的一個不打擾的前提又有一個外部的書面審查填表的機制好我們請生科處來研議一下好謝謝事後再回覆我一下那再麻煩"},{"start":9355.931,"end":9369.635,"text":"好 那因為現場委員都沒有意見那我們第四幕財團法人國家實驗研究院發展計畫提案號的第35案到第67案審查結果改為主決議有35 36 37 38 42 43 45 46 49 50 51 52 53 54 56 57 60 61 62 6364"},{"start":9384.295,"end":9407.231,"text":"那我自己的案子齁改為主決議除以上個案外我們預算照列"},{"start":9409.022,"end":9429.755,"text":"接著我們要處理第五幕財團法人國家同步輻射研究中心發展計畫提案案號是68到73之前我們是不是先休息八分鐘因為已經兩個多小時了讓大家上個廁所 謝謝休息五分鐘對不起 八分鐘"},{"start":9945.37,"end":9952.093,"text":"好我們現在繼續開會那因為剛剛有委員有調整喔所以我們重新宣告"},{"start":9953.936,"end":9959.797,"text":"第四目財產法人國家實驗研究院發展計畫提案案號第35案至67案審查結果改為主決議的是35 36 37 38 43 45 46 47 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 60 61 62 63 64 65 66案除以上個案外預算照列"},{"start":9981.997,"end":9996.602,"text":"接著我們處理第五目財團法人國家同步輻射研究中心發展計畫提案案號是68至73案好請大家舉手謝謝好 郭益勤委員謝謝"},{"start":9999.497,"end":10015.955,"text":"好 這一幕我是第68案那這個國科會有來說明就是說近年關於相關的這個論文的產出是穩定的那從這個原本111年的10.34那已經到了11.41"},{"start":10017.456,"end":10042.718,"text":"那我想的除了關注這個論文的數量以外那也想請這個國父中心來說明一下目前這個績效指標是不是已經有納入所謂的這個技術的移轉那產學上的一個合作那如何進一步來提升這個國際的領先研究的比例跟設施使用的一個效應那如果有這方面的一些成果的面向那再跟我們來做說明那這樣我可以改組決議好 以上"},{"start":10047.427,"end":10056.653,"text":"陳佩玉委員好 那個我先幫五項委員發言7.1還有7.3可以改組決議 謝謝好 請主管機關回覆葉委員有要發言嗎好 謝謝我們請主管機關先回覆好 那我請同步輔助中心主任"},{"start":10071.203,"end":10086.319,"text":"好 我這邊針對那個郭委員的提議謝謝他的槌尋那我們事實上這幾年是持續的增長那量是保持穩定那至於季轉跟那個國際合作的效益這個我們會另外再統計再提供給委員參考"},{"start":10090.163,"end":10114.035,"text":"那計轉方面因為我們是以基礎研究為主所以我們計轉的量是比較少所以這個我們但是也會統計起來提供給委員參考那其實其他沒有好 以上還有沒有委員要發言"},{"start":10120.404,"end":10130.804,"text":"那有沒有委員要建議一個數字好 在場委員都沒有意見"},{"start":10133.663,"end":10157.501,"text":"第五幕財短法人國家同步輻射研究中心發展計畫提案案號第68至73案我們現在目前宣告改為主決議的是68 69 70 71 73那因為以上呢除個案之外委員現場沒有意見預算照列其他的個案之外我們就預算照列"},{"start":10159.258,"end":10183.738,"text":"好 接著我們要處理第六目飛營業特種基金提案案號從第74案到108案請委員舉手 謝謝陳培鈺委員好 謝謝主席第六目我的78案是科普列車有跟國科會溝通了我這邊還是希望可以增加國家語言的場次還有人文社會學的場次拜託國科會未來在科普列車的部分把人文社會學納入還有國家語言的部分"},{"start":10184.618,"end":10199.863,"text":"79案主权AI我知道国科会有在精进但是我们有提醒国科会超过50年的学术研究成果等等的这些没有版权的问题的部分未来还有协助传统媒体资料库数位化的这个部分也拜托国科会协同书发部跟文化部积极的工作"},{"start":10200.923,"end":10222.481,"text":"接下来是九十一案儿少阅读的数位习惯研究还有本土的研究其实都希望更多台湾在地的研究相关的实证资料让更多的家长更多老师知道如果在0到6岁的时候接触过多3C会对小孩大脑的发育情绪的管理影响阅读社交能力连结我们需要更多台湾本地的研究这边要拜托国歌会"},{"start":10223.421,"end":10245.037,"text":"可以呼籲更多的老師一起加入這個研究的行列那93案是運科權利不對等的部分這個關於我想很多細節我就不再贅述就拜託國科會未來在很多整合型的計劃部分不要只讓大家教子計劃的倫理審核的倫理審查的核定書而是真的要確實的看研究倫理審查甚至是整個整合型"},{"start":10245.837,"end":10269.048,"text":"第六目的94案關於運動文化的研究關於兒少的部分性別部分勞動權益的部分如何在運動項目當中被看見拜託國會會積極的協助還有第六目的95案國家科普獎的部分之前我們有講過那未來如何有更多其他的可能性我們辦公室也會持續再跟國科會溝通以上我都可以改主決議另外幫吳斯亞委員發言第六目的97 99 100 101 102 107也都改成主決議"},{"start":10276.72,"end":10281.754,"text":"好還有委員有意見嗎好謝謝我們先郭玉琴委員再來陳秀寶委員"},{"start":10282.403,"end":10310.273,"text":"好 這一幕我是86到90另外還有98那在86的部分國科會有來表示這個未達標的一些個案件有加強的一個管理跟這個追蹤那我想也請國科會來說明一下就是目前這個技術移轉的件數跟授權收入下降的一個比較主要的一個原因來做說明那這一些改善措施是不是也有一些具體的一些成效第80再來是87"},{"start":10311.693,"end":10335.328,"text":"那國會會有表示這個依照國防的需求有遴選這個六項的關鍵技術的一個研究的一個主題那這個部分的這個六項的關鍵技術研究目前有多少是已經驗證或者是在進入這個後續發展的一個階段也請來做一下說明那在這個第八十我看一下八十八跟八十九的部分"},{"start":10335.788,"end":10356.106,"text":"那麼在人才的這個發展我想人才是國防科技其實重要的發展的一個基礎那除了培育人才以外人數以外那最重要的是後續有沒有投入國防科研或者是產業體系當中也請說明一下那另外在第89案"},{"start":10358.348,"end":10382.871,"text":"那我想AI的發展剛剛其實有相關的部分也說明了很多那除了這個技術的一個創新之外就是資料的治理跟可信任的一個機制也非常的重要那這個部分推動的一個進度是如何那也請國會這邊可能就是說明一下那怎麼樣能夠提升這個AI的研究環境跟國際接軌的一個能力"},{"start":10383.751,"end":10402.176,"text":"在第98案的部分也是人文社會的研究價值其實是在協助政策的制定不是只有停留在學術的一個分析的階段這個部分有沒有哪些具體的一些案例能夠納入科學園區規劃跟治理的一個決策"},{"start":10403.436,"end":10413.551,"text":"能夠進一步就是兼顧科技跟人文的環境的一個平衡這個部分也請說明一下以上我都可以改成主角也沒有問題"},{"start":10418.821,"end":10431.609,"text":"謝主席在這個部分呢我的案子有三個案子是83案84案以及85案那83案的部分呢就是也是針對人才培育的相關的這些預算那"},{"start":10435.779,"end":10462.471,"text":"我們現在AI的技術越來越進步那應用也越來越廣泛那所以說我們碩博士生他在使用AI來協助撰寫入門卻產生了有錯誤或者說就因為AI的運用是不是有一些學倫的這個問題那希望說我們在國科會這邊如果說有計畫申請人在申請計畫的時候是不是應該詳細的揭露他AI科技運用的程度及範圍"},{"start":10464.292,"end":10482.696,"text":"來讓我們相關的單位可以有監督並且也有符合這個學倫的要求那國會這邊有說明說不同的學門使用AI的這個科技的應用程度不一樣是很難是定定同意的規範這個我可以接受但是我這邊其實要強調說我們使用AI科技來執行協助"},{"start":10486.693,"end":10516.353,"text":"就在执行这个国科会的这个研究计划的时候应该是要还是要有个揭露的机制毕竟我们今天是来自于国家的预算那我们的计划成果本来就是要有原创性国科会这边应该要有要求主持人签署声明书并且也要要求他们是符合那个伦理规范的那希望说我希望要求的是说有使用AI科技的国科会研究计划他应该要主动的揭露他使用的方式使用的范围"},{"start":10516.693,"end":10534.36,"text":"就是說它本身在這個計畫裡面它是有使用到AI相關的技術的話它應該在訊息上面要去主動的要揭露我想這個部分我相信國客會理解說為什麼我有這樣子的要求也希望說你們這個部分等一下做一下說明"},{"start":10535.14,"end":10543.049,"text":"那第二個案子是84案84案也是關於人才培育的部分但是就是主要是針對說我們現在缺人才的這個部分隨著各國的科技大強紛紛有表達想要來台投資如其像輝達他落腳在北市科也傳出雙方大局爭財這個消息未來"},{"start":10555.404,"end":10573.989,"text":"他們掙財如果如消息所說新聞所說他要超過三千名員工那對本來我們就缺工的這些科技的產業會有個很大的衝擊我們自己本土的科技廠商要怎麼樣去留住這些優秀優良的人才那國科會是有說明說目前會透過"},{"start":10575.287,"end":10577.128,"text":"科研產業化平台促進學生來合作企業的實習"},{"start":10605.687,"end":10626.649,"text":"也是AI科技運用的部分現在很多詐騙的訊息其實就是因為就是AI的應用就在合成的相片合成的圖片還是影片那Google它有研發就是說可以這樣在圖片上面放特殊的浮水印那我們透過Gemini可以辨識說是不是深層的這個AI的圖片"},{"start":10627.91,"end":10649.808,"text":"所以簡介就是透過AI工具來辨識是不是AI生成的這個圖片的技術呢是已經有發展出來了所以希望說國共會這邊我們跟中研院、樹化部門共同來研議如果就是可以讓民眾有這樣子一個辨識的工具讓我們民眾可以辨識假訊息也減少社會的這個紛擾以及降低這個詐騙的風險那你們這邊說明是說"},{"start":10653.902,"end":10671.91,"text":"意義呢DIOFACTS跟AI生成來散播假訊息這個網路詐騙這個風險呢速發有跨部會的投入新興AI辨識工具以及反制的這個研究目前也已經有在就是已經在研究那希望說本期是希望說我們針對"},{"start":10673.371,"end":10693.488,"text":"AI生成圖片的部分是不是也一樣積極的我們來研製來辦理因為其實民眾因為現在用網路的頻率太高了那網路傳遞出來的這樣子訊息誤導了民眾或是這個詐騙的部分層出不窮所以這個部分我希望說等一下你們也說明一下好 以上"},{"start":10695.52,"end":10714.028,"text":"科资委员好我是在第六幕里面就是103跟105那我想这个是103当然是关注益助科发基金嘛你叫推动国家整体的建设但是我已经多次跟国科会来咨询有关我们科研人力的问题当然我们知道人才来来去去这是一个常态"},{"start":10714.548,"end":10729.298,"text":"但是有人出去总要有人进来那我想我们全国其实不止就是它的研发人力近十年来大概是有七万多人的成长但是呢这个政府的研发人力反而是逐年一个下降那可以看出数据2020到2024是少了1557"},{"start":10732.78,"end":10750.175,"text":"那这当然牵涉到研发核心的研究人员在减少当中哦所以我们看起来六年是少了两千多人所以我们这个人才的问题我相信是非常需要重视嘛就懒才的这个规划才会看出成效那这是在103那105的部分里面哦"},{"start":10750.976,"end":10779.378,"text":"真的每個人都來申請我們這個科發基金的跨部會的這個計畫那這個執行到底有沒有做好把關我覺得國科會是有很多錢但是錢有些時候像過就好像是過水說實在也替你們感到有點委屈了那你看看近年來這個補助有些部會申請的執行率都低於九成剛剛有人提到有些時候那個速發部的計畫只有一成多而且各部會所提報的計畫也不定是符合你們所規"},{"start":10780.279,"end":10805.514,"text":"规定的这个重大或是急迫性的这个性质那很多计划本来就应该在各自的公务预算当中来编列根本不需要到你们科发基金来做一个补助啊结果全部跑来申请然后你反而让真的必须要补助的反而没有做到啊这是怎么办你们真的很难去说不是不是这个东西来说的话我觉得在这个把关的部分应该要更展现出这个"},{"start":10806.294,"end":10823.323,"text":"因為你們是主管單位我覺得這個部分裡面還是可以有一些say no的一個權利啦所以我覺得我可以同意把103、105病案改動第六幕的整個的一百萬啦但是還是希望做好審核的工作真的不要讓各部會予以求啦這個恭喜在野"},{"start":10823.823,"end":10850.005,"text":"對吧 主委有很多更不需要你們來補助的嘛都站在你這裡 你可以說NO嗎一巴掌就跟人家說你不要再來不然委員到時候再給你動一動你怎麼辦就要直接對我們立法不要讓你們去為難做事嘛本來就是不需要的啊明明可以自己東西來編列預算全部到你們這邊來申請你們就要這樣OK嗎我覺得這個東西應該是要好好的來去做一些的處理啦"},{"start":10850.205,"end":10865.813,"text":"所以我個人認為103、105在第六目裡面我們還是並動一百萬我覺得這還是一個可以有一個揭示的效果好 謝謝那我自己呢是92案"},{"start":10867.694,"end":10887.023,"text":"我想我們對於現在的這個國科會2022年改之後有調整這個專題研究的計畫審查制度降低主持人過往的績效比重提高計畫的內容權重那我希望這些都是促進學術創新並提升年輕學者的一個機會"},{"start":10888.504,"end":10911.825,"text":"但是實質有沒有改善整個研究的績效跟審查的公平性我是抱持著有疑義啦所以特別有提這個案子希望說這個特別學者年輕的部分他的通過率是否有提升啊中生代是不是有進而被影響啊變成反而相對不利我都這個都希望能夠達到一個平衡"},{"start":10913.526,"end":10923.391,"text":"這個部分也希望說有待檢驗那是不是國科會應該建立一個定期的檢視評估機制然後來達到新的一個公平性"},{"start":10924.994,"end":10942.523,"text":"第二個 國際期刊不接受AI生成的文字來進行投稿但是國內針對AI生成或AI改寫的文章多仰賴各校或各學會自行訂定投稿的學術倫理辦法導致在作者的責任歸屬原創性的一個認定"},{"start":10944.361,"end":10969.675,"text":"是否會構成抄襲或不當的代謝等問題上仍有疑議所以我抱持著擔憂那也提了這個案子是綜合性的那再來第三個是國科會在近年的政策規劃跟資源配置上是否曾低估國內科研人才的流失問題嚴重性跟長期的一個影響我也要拜託這個一定要特別重視因為能夠繼續瀏覽"},{"start":10971.656,"end":10994.495,"text":"人才甚至是讓人才能夠繼續在台灣長期的做研究項目那也都會整體的會影響到我們整體的國力科研所以希望說這個研究性這個嚴重性應該要重視以上我也提出了第92案是不是請主管機關回覆一下"},{"start":10996.94,"end":11003.277,"text":"好 有關人才的議題剛剛柯委員還有那個召委都有提到"},{"start":11005.103,"end":11026.44,"text":"我們現在客觀的事實就是因為少子化的因素所以其實各大學的學生人數也在減少連帶著我們教授的人數其實也是在減少當中所以還有博士班學生所以這個"},{"start":11028.946,"end":11052.414,"text":"國科會因為是直接資助我們大學的研究所以科委員非常了解所以我們這種人力減少的趨勢實在是也沒有辦法阻擋那我們怎麼去增加譬如說從國際來的人才我們也是非常鼓勵我們各大學要努力去做這個事情"},{"start":11055.652,"end":11062.47,"text":"至於說我們的研究經費其實還是在昨年增加當中"},{"start":11064.143,"end":11088.045,"text":"主要的目的也是因為我們產業的需求產業需求希望在我們高科技的這個領域能夠持續維持我們的優勢我們還是希望說能夠讓更多的教授能夠來執行我們的計畫他願意做的話我們就盡量去支持他們那更多的學生也能夠受惠於我們的研究機會增加可以讓他們的這個"},{"start":11090.868,"end":11114.106,"text":"不但是研究經費、材料費、人事費、拆理費、各種各樣的業務費甚至設備我們能夠持續增加讓他們有更多能夠展現實力的地方那也希望藉這個機會讓我們的研究的這個水準可以逐漸的提高所以這一部分我還是請委員能夠見諒至於這個人力的這個問題我們"},{"start":11120.629,"end":11135.602,"text":"也增加這個國際合作的這個計劃的經費也希望說在我們人力不足的狀況之下那國際人才到台灣來也不見得能夠快速增加我們加強跟國際的這個合作那有關"},{"start":11144.54,"end":11164.195,"text":"剛剛秀华委員提到很多AI的议题,我們在國會也提到了AI生成的内容包含在计划書的申請,未来可能發表论文,还有在报告的撰写等等"},{"start":11166.457,"end":11181.408,"text":"我想陳副主委也許可以來回答一下或者等一下我們重規處好 跟委員回復一下這個使用AI撰寫計畫書的部分我們現在是要求我們的主持人一定要"},{"start":11182.629,"end":11205.589,"text":"要做揭露也就是他在他如果是利用AI生成的圖像那他要說這個圖像是AI生成的那這個生成的是示意圖不是結果圖等等都要寫得很清楚那他使用AI去整理文獻也好或者是做內容的修整也好我們也希望他能夠做揭露那但說實在他如果不揭露"},{"start":11207.56,"end":11229.835,"text":"那也沒辦法但是我們最後其實是希望所有的主持人他要對他的內容做確認跟負責也就是最後把關其實還是在主持人本身如果他因為沒有做確認而把這個責任推到AI身上的話他還是有學人的問題他不能說我這個參考文獻都是AI"},{"start":11231.035,"end":11253.902,"text":"產製的所以我不知道那就跟以前我找學生如果他沒有揭露他最後被查出來有人檢舉查出來我們會按照我們會按照委員的建議各種各樣先進的工具我們用AI來查AI的這個工具我們會盡量去使用但是我們不會所有的"},{"start":11254.682,"end":11273.173,"text":"所有的文件我們都會去使用AI,因為這個要花很多錢,要算力,等於要浪費很多但是我們所有的人都一樣,你犯法可能你以為沒有人知道可是總是老天在看,萬一被查出來,我們就會處罰"},{"start":11279.257,"end":11290.388,"text":"再來就是剛剛那個 朝偉也有提到我們那個年輕學者 怎麼樣給他多一點這個機會這個事情我們中衛處也許可以來回覆一下"},{"start":11294.168,"end":11322.547,"text":"部委員就是針對年輕學者的部分我們除了有一些專案計畫在推動之外那針對年輕學者他們可能在這個相關的條件上面也許他的研究表現初步不是那麼高的話那我們在審查的一些標準會有做一些比例上的調配那能夠協助年輕學者能夠在這個學界這邊做就他的領域做他們的專業的研究"},{"start":11323.737,"end":11348.499,"text":"我個人覺得因為現在整個AI的生成真的太厲害包括以前我們在當這個所謂的審查委員的時候呢我們其實都會看他的什麼文獻探討現在已經完全不管這一招了因為你AI幫你整理更好所以我真的反而覺得說你們在設計那個所謂的各學門的審查人部分他們這種專業的知識有關AI生成這部分你們應該再給他額外再教育否則你基本上全部混在一起"},{"start":11349.119,"end":11369.549,"text":"你根本已經完全不知道因為AI真的比人腦更厲害了我們只是說在以前只是認為說它在資料整理上面AI我們還可以接受現在搞不好連它的產出它的創意的部分AI搞不好都可以比你的腦袋更好但這個部分是整個跟我們過去的方式都不一樣我覺得這個真的是未來國科會在這塊部分給不同的"},{"start":11370.549,"end":11390.618,"text":"這個審查裡面的在教育在技術上面或是用什麼工具可以用這反而是你們未來很大的一個點否則大家都不知道以後該怎麼樣那個標準到底在哪裡的好謝謝 謝謝柯委員當然柯委員另外一個意見就是我們在跨部會署的這個計畫部那請我們張子敏來回應"},{"start":11395.454,"end":11408.652,"text":"謝謝柯委員的意見因為我們都知道這個預算都是至少都一年半以前開始規劃所以跨部會署計劃基金的特性就是針對當年度重要的急迫的科技政策的推展"},{"start":11409.693,"end":11430.509,"text":"各部會可以來提出他們的需求那當然這個提出來我們還是會經過很嚴密的這個審查包括說我們會開製品會議我們會請外部的專家請政府的代表等等那審查完以後這個他修改計畫說我們還會再進入管理會再去做第二次的這個複審的審查你們通過率多少"},{"start":11431.209,"end":11453.144,"text":"各部會來跟你們申請通過率我們的通過率這我沒有統計但是給我一個你們可以算一下通過率還有你們通過完之後歷年通過率之後他們的執行率我們在接受你們國科會的那個計畫的審查的時候我都要提供上一次我的執行率多少你這誇不為剛才更要提供執行率阿不阿拜"},{"start":11453.584,"end":11474.832,"text":"每次都要申請然後後面就不了了之這國科會不需要承擔不需要承擔這樣的一個角色所以到底通過率多少還有可以調出過去跟你們拿到錢之後他們的質詢率多少如果質詢率都很低的話下次就跟比照你們跟教授的這個計畫申請一樣質詢率不夠或是沒有交出paper的話你就下次就應該把它扣上一個新號以後就"},{"start":11476.153,"end":11491.765,"text":"即使再怎麼樣的部分你就可以因此就告訴他等你這個質詢力到一個程度我們再來給予計算這也是一個管控的標準啊對不對不要你們過手都是你們然後到最後錢都在你們身上結果別人拿去用了然後最多放在你們身上這樣不合理啊"},{"start":11492.906,"end":11506.762,"text":"謝謝柯委員 我們會嚴加管控老師你要再說嗎剛剛還有郭委員的意見請說我請林副主委來回應一下謝謝郭委員的意見"},{"start":11508.043,"end":11527.248,"text":"目前我們在這個國防科技前沿的探索計畫裡面我們有設了七個學員中心那七個學員中心裡面目前有六個的驗測計畫那這六個驗測計畫只有國防大學沒有因為國防大學他是做系統整合所以事實上其實國防大學都有參與所有的驗測計畫那現在就是說"},{"start":11529.548,"end":11552.565,"text":"我們現在的驗測計畫其實都是根據軍備局的需求因為我們在兩年前的時候政委還有我們的吳主委就是吳政委還有跟那個紀政委我們有成立一個國防的平台就是把國防部的需求跟國科會的資源甚至把經濟部的資源我們把它統籌在一起所以現在的做法是說驗測如果成功之後軍備局就會導入"},{"start":11555.107,"end":11578.833,"text":"國防科技的發展裡面所以就借到經費局的經費然後另外來講人才我們也一併的有規劃到就是說因為現在很多軍工產業其實經濟部都有去直接去補貼一些軍工產業根據國防部的需求然後他有在運作所以未來這些人才我們除了有在建立人才庫之外這些人才我們也確保他將來他的專業可以"},{"start":11580.934,"end":11596.707,"text":"到各企业去从事这些军工的产业所以这部分我们都会去加强的处理谢谢所以有建立那个长期追踪的机制了吗现在还没有什么时候会建立大概现在开始在建立了因为毕竟学研计划"},{"start":11597.688,"end":11625.843,"text":"大概是兩年前開始我們才開始的整合然後包含經濟部有把錢給各企業去補助他去所以是現在才要開始建立但是已經追蹤兩年是這個意思嗎這個機制我們去年才開始比較緊密的跟國安部來合作那委員的建議很好我們會把這個最終的機制這一部分我們科技辦公室也在因為是跨部會科技辦公室也在協助"},{"start":11626.363,"end":11645.277,"text":"啊到時候如果有一些比較具體的或者是什麼樣的一個進程再讓我們知道一下不然明年又要審同樣同樣的這個是是對對對對對好因為公安工業會牽涉到要產業化沒錯所以經濟部跟塑化部都有進來好好好這跨部會的部分再再再勾結一下謝謝好因為陳秀白委員"},{"start":11653.679,"end":11676.403,"text":"謝謝主席這部分三個案子剛才都已經有做說明了所以我第三個案子85案可以改成主決議那83案跟84案呢我還是想要小小動一下因為我是對我覺得我本來提動金額1000萬不用動到那麼多但是我想說至少要動個100萬那你們提出書面之後再解凍再動之謝謝好 有委員提案"},{"start":11681.96,"end":11682.802,"text":"103105各動100然後待會再一起討論"},{"start":11686.823,"end":11712.954,"text":"那我這邊92案剛剛有回覆我好像我已經提案內容寫得蠻清楚的可能你們有誤會我當然是我們期盼能夠促進學術創新提升年輕學者的相對應機會但是我們要來探討的是實質改善的績效還有審查的公平性因為包括是否會因為這樣子的一個改革我們當然要照顧年輕學者"},{"start":11713.274,"end":11739.993,"text":"但是也要看看是否終身帶的學者會處於相對不利的一個狀況這個是要公平性的去探討都要照顧到那照顧的權重當然我們可以來探討我們也不希望說順了一方另外一方又受害所以這個部分剛剛是只回應我年輕學者的部分我想是不是有誤解"},{"start":11741.535,"end":11750.045,"text":"謝謝召委接下來我們會來追蹤來探討一下看看建立定期的檢視跟評估機制好 謝謝隨機改變好不好好"},{"start":11753.735,"end":11775.235,"text":"那再來就是我還是一直在強調那個AI生成的文字那是不是會造成這部分的學人案所以還是希望說不要只是仰賴各校跟各學會自行訂定投稿那國科會應該也是責無旁貸是不是能夠來有一個中央等級的一個指引建議"},{"start":11776.84,"end":11799.04,"text":"包括我們其實已經有給指引有給各校都有給 對那各校的指引其實有一些是根據國科會的指引去那有沒有還沒有寫出來的還沒有寫出來的就是各校我們追蹤一下追蹤一下他們有沒有真的落實到你們的指引嘛OK那會不會在你的指引上放寬標準我覺得你的指引是一個天花板"},{"start":11800.021,"end":11809.868,"text":"是不是以你的框架為主理論不會啦 因為他們都想要申請經費都蠻聽話的再幫我追蹤一下我們要確認一下我們不能建立在說大家應該都是會聽從還是要謹慎去面對的那我這一案的話就是改組決議92好 那現在我們要來處理"},{"start":11831.79,"end":11840.078,"text":"讓我先宣告完畢你們先討論一下我宣告你們討論你們的第六目非營業特種基金提案案號第74案到108案"},{"start":11842.413,"end":11845.555,"text":"審查的結果改為主決議的有74 75 78 79 80 81 82 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 9495 97 98 99 100 101 102104 106 107 108案除以上個案外"},{"start":11863.163,"end":11891.713,"text":"我們本幕現在在討論有委員在提凍結五百也有委員在提其他的意見是不是我們現在來確定一下不是 珍姐你不是說你一百我一百兩百我OK啊 我就說現在的討論啊我一零三跟一零五我覺得還是要給他凍一百我覺得這很合理啊提出一個更合適的一個方式嘛這人才賠一百就嘛那秀寶那邊是一百嘛 所以"},{"start":11894.002,"end":11906.858,"text":"好 剛剛有委員提500那現在又其他委員討論說就是柯子恩委員100那陳秀寶委員100所以本木合併的話我們是共同凍結200萬元好"},{"start":11911.462,"end":11927.268,"text":"以上宣告並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會的決議要提出書面報告才可以使得凍資接著我們要處理第23款第一項國家科學及技術委員會之主決議提案案號是109案到135案請各位委員"},{"start":11934.909,"end":11943.696,"text":"我們先來看一下 主決議109到114是相對應的一個主決議那主管機關有沒有意見好 沒有意見 就是109到114照主決議 照案通過那再來是115到117的主決議有修正文字 那請主管機關回應"},{"start":11964.329,"end":11968.113,"text":"可以喔 修正通過那再來是118 主決議有沒有意見好 照案通過119 有修正文字 主決議有沒有意見好 沒有喔119 照案通過"},{"start":11988.246,"end":12008.931,"text":"修正通過120到131的主決議那請問主管機關有沒有意見好 沒有意見 照案通過132有修正文字主管機關有沒有意見好 修正通過133到135這部分因為135是我的啦"},{"start":12018.325,"end":12046.952,"text":"我還是要再講一下建於行政院推動無人機產業發展相關政策並表示2025到2030預計是投入新台幣442億強化無人機產業的供應鏈的韌性但無人機的產業涉及整機的系統 飛控 通訊光學感測 半導體晶片動力系統 精密加工航太林組件的AI應用"},{"start":12047.745,"end":12067.714,"text":"多元的供應鏈 整體的中央規劃我認為不應該是僅以單一區域為核心應該整合相關的科學園區 產業園區 工業區技術零件的整合那台中市常年具備這樣子的一個相關產業的需求那也能夠供給"},{"start":12068.894,"end":12091.86,"text":"那也設有中部科學園區漢翔工業有限公司相關的完整產業的聚落支撐那應該是可以納入國家級的無人機核心的佈局是不是請國科會於三個月內進行立法院的提出相關無人機產業公佈供應鏈的一個佈局評估的一個報告這部分135"},{"start":12097.802,"end":12116.911,"text":"是不是請主管機關回應一下有沒有意見沒有意見好 沒有意見那也是主決議召喚通過來 我在整體全部重新宣告主決議提案案號由109到135召喚通過有109至114118 120至"},{"start":12125.173,"end":12130.538,"text":"131133至135案修正通過的有115至11719132修正通過"},{"start":12139.099,"end":12166.839,"text":"第23款第1項國家科學及技術委員會處理完畢繼續處理國家科學及技術委員會及新竹科學園區管理局稅出的部分第23款第2項新竹科學園區管理局通案的部分新竹科學園區管理局的部分提案號是第136案請提案委員說明應景委員"},{"start":12170.496,"end":12190.162,"text":"謝謝主席136案跟後面我有提中科、南科所以我就一併來說明因為其實是一樣的提案內容我有留意到文化部有一個百大文化基地的政策"},{"start":12191.042,"end":12218.301,"text":"其中一個面向就是要把文化社區營造然後結合文化與科技帶入科學園區所以我才會有這三個提案我的想像會是說我們有沒有辦法打造成日本的竹坡美國的矽谷或是韓國的大田那樣的文化科學城我們是不是可以把更多的文化體驗帶進科學園區的生活圈"},{"start":12220.843,"end":12238.33,"text":"可是我的希望不是說辦個什麼音樂會 辦個市集這樣就了事我們其實是需要有一個長遠的規劃讓科學園區的員工在這個園區裡面他可以更深入也更願意去參加這個園區的藝文活動以上好 請主管級官回覆"},{"start":12246.977,"end":12261.076,"text":"非常感謝林委員我想我們未來在發展科學園區以及要改造既有的科學園區這個方向是跟委員是一致的我們不僅要注重生態文化"},{"start":12262.958,"end":12278.784,"text":"在休閒娛樂甚至未來在運動等等各種我們園區從業人員以及附近的居民他們的需求我們會一併考量所以我們幾個園區管理局都是朝這個方向在發展謝謝委員好那這個項目的話林議員是提案凍結20萬請林議員"},{"start":12288.729,"end":12315.596,"text":"主委就這樣表示說會有這樣的長遠的規劃所以我三個案子都改人主決議謝謝三個案子就是都是竹科中科南科有違併說明嗎136 143 148好沒關係請醫事人員先登記起來我們先處理這個136啦第二三款第二項新竹科學園區管理局通案部分新竹科學園區管理局部分提案案號第136案審查結果是改為主決議"},{"start":12320.298,"end":12341.023,"text":"接著處理第一幕園區實驗中學教學與訓輔輔助提案接著是137案那137案是我提案的那我要跟大家特別說明的是國立新竹科學園區實驗高級中學違反勞動基準法第22條第2項工資未全額直接給付勞方"},{"start":12347.604,"end":12373.617,"text":"招足科罰六萬那該校園區體系是由公立學校啦齁其罰還是由公帑來支應納稅人買單喔實質形成了自己人開罰自己人那我想這一個責任喔應該要追究因為我們現在工資應該全額給勞工這個是最基本的要求吧"},{"start":12375.553,"end":12392.038,"text":"連園區內的公立學校都發生了違規我覺得這個勞動的意識權益還有現在的內部控管有待檢討所以我提動結100請主管機關回應好 我是不是請主科管理局"},{"start":12397.922,"end":12411.916,"text":"趙偉跟趙偉報告一下的確我們發生這個不幸的事情我們接到反應之後立刻到實驗中學去查處那也的確是未按這個及時給付全額的薪資對不起 及時什麼"},{"start":12413.208,"end":12435.43,"text":"準時給付 準時給付 謝謝這是第一部分 第二部分事實上它主要是各單位的內控沒有協調我們把它已經做成一個標準的SOP那當然主政的那個校長也因為這件其他的事情還有這件事情他已經不續聘 這個已經在案那我們今天下午會新的這個"},{"start":12437.472,"end":12459.632,"text":"校長會來討論,也會把這個案子跟未來的校長做追溝通那最重要的是我們國科會已經加強有關將勞動條件整個SOP的部分跟所有各部的主任跟主計人員加強溝通這一點跟召委做一個報告"},{"start":12461.169,"end":12468.176,"text":"好 那接著我們處理這一案第一目 地園區實驗中學教學與訓輔輔助提案號第137案本目凍結100萬元並針對各凍結提案之要求依審查會決議提出書面報告 使得凍之"},{"start":12485.111,"end":12501.084,"text":"好 接著處理第三幕 園區業務推展提案號第一 38-142 請提案委員好 劉淑冰委員有要說明嗎 請"},{"start":12511.294,"end":12513.818,"text":"好 謝謝主席我的140號的"},{"start":12517.865,"end":12519.046,"text":"預算案是針對原區"},{"start":12549.246,"end":12566.719,"text":"要做報告然後在委員會裡面通過之後才得動之那是提出的是凍結40萬這部分這個部分因為國科會科學園區的三位那時候的副"},{"start":12570.999,"end":12583.194,"text":"副首長也有來做報告那大概是可以了解所以如果在這部分可以跟其他人在做相關的在勞工部分看起來好像只有我這一案協調的話我是可以改成主決議這樣子好 天安委員劉淑冰"},{"start":12591.913,"end":12595.337,"text":"140案改成組決議那我是139跟141啦那139案也是因為違反這個事業園區違反這個勞動法令"},{"start":12605.39,"end":12631.003,"text":"我們非常擔憂所以還是要有所警惕那也希望說能夠將相關的這個分級管理重複違規的部分做追蹤處理那還有違規的預防所以我覺得要檢討再來141案我們是辦理園區的事業工商登記營運調調查管理費的收取跟審查催收"},{"start":12632.267,"end":12658.56,"text":"那我們希望說這個部分還是要請廠商補正110年度將抽合比率由10%提高至15%竹科的不正確比例至113年增加至6.25希望能夠研議精進的措施以上這兩案包括劉淑冰委員是不是請主管機關回覆"},{"start":12660.919,"end":12662.674,"text":"好 請我們還是主柯管理局"},{"start":12664.373,"end":12691.756,"text":"有關於管理費的部分事實上是每個廠商銷售之後會面臨這個責讓跟退回的部分所以他營業會有所調整但這部分我們事實上是跟產業的營業行為有關那這是先說明所以正確性無誤但是會有一些銷售責讓跟退回的部分那我們會加強跟廠商溝通這一部分所以希望這個我也能夠支持預算以上"},{"start":12695.23,"end":12719.608,"text":"好以上兩案我自己的案子齁那我先問大家一下齁這138到142大家有沒有意見好那139跟141案齁這個部分我是小小動啦齁那有100萬跟40萬我整幕來凍結是50萬"},{"start":12728.882,"end":12739.496,"text":"好 大家沒有意見喔 謝謝那園區業務推展第三幕提案案號第138到142審查的結果改為主決議138、140、142案"},{"start":12744.346,"end":12769.489,"text":"本木盒並凍結50萬元並針對各凍結提案之要求依審查會的決議希望能夠提出書面報告後才能夠使得動之第二項新竹科學園區管理局處理完畢接著處理第二三款第三項中部科學園區管理局通案的部分中部科學園區管理局的部分提案號是第143案"},{"start":12772.804,"end":12796.609,"text":"143案剛剛林錦委員有宣告說改成主決議第二三款第三項中部科學園區管理局通案部分中部科學園區管理局部分提案案號143案審查結果改為主決議接著處理第三目園區業務推漲提案案號144案到147有沒有委員"},{"start":12803.069,"end":12829.9,"text":"要發言好 我的部分是145跟146齁那一樣是關心原區事業單位違反勞動法令相關的一個持續發生喔還是希望這個能夠降低啦違規事件不斷的頻傳累犯事業不配合勞檢的業者加強強度嚇阻"},{"start":12834.008,"end":12862.194,"text":"那我目前看到是沒有非常非常的有利所以這個提案146的部分也是對於這個管理補繳管理費的情勢請廠商補正110年度抽合比率這個部分的研議是不是相關的不正確比例也有增加那應該要研議精進的措施都是希望能夠更好"},{"start":12863.493,"end":12883.782,"text":"以上我的兩岸那是不是也比照剛剛的一個部分來辦理主管機關我可以請中科管理局說明一下好 謝謝委員的關心羅委員關心145這邊就是我們勞動法令的執行這方面跟委員報告我們近三年中科是拿到勞動部的優良"},{"start":12885.983,"end":12909.141,"text":"優良的一個單位所以我們會繼續的努力那至於後續的這些監督、輔導我們會按照法令規定來做所以謝謝委員給我們的一個指導那146的這一個部分146的部分這個跟委員報告我們現在已經有降低了最主要是我們管理會的收取他們有一些更正那更正因為稅建機關"},{"start":12910.522,"end":12928.649,"text":"已經給他們通知了那他們沒有及時的更正那這個部分我們已經有透過這些主管的基層機關還有會計師的查核那目前整個的那個比例那個異常的比例已經下降了所以我們這個會持續的來精進那謝謝委員給我們的一個指導"},{"start":12929.469,"end":12936.579,"text":"好 第三幕 原區業務推展提案案號第144案到147案審查結果改為主決議的有144 145 146 147案"},{"start":12942.165,"end":12960.743,"text":"第三項中部科學園區管理局處理完畢接著處理第23款第4項南部科學園區管理局通案部分南部科學園區管理局的部分提案號由148案那第148案剛剛已經有被宣告要改為主決議"},{"start":12961.764,"end":12986.907,"text":"第23款第4項南部科學園區管理局通案的部分南部科學園區管理局的部分提案案號第148案審查結果改為主決議接著我們要來處理第4幕園區業務推展案號是149到154請提案委員說明林警委員"},{"start":12996.189,"end":13008.968,"text":"好 謝謝主席我是153案喔這一案談的是南科管理局有關台南沙崙地區開發以及草銷的保育的議題喔"},{"start":13011.371,"end":13029.967,"text":"我看到吳思耀委員也有一同關心這個議題也有提案我想這個地方畢竟它是開發跟生態保育的權衡那國科會跟南科管理局其實確實應該要加強各方社會的溝通"},{"start":13030.808,"end":13046.268,"text":"那盡可能取得各方意見的平衡不能說只偏重哪一方的意見那你就會讓另一方的利益比較沒有之前我們有大致了解過"},{"start":13048.049,"end":13065.862,"text":"就是有上網的一些公開資訊那不過對於是否善盡溝通跟回應社會的疑慮這一點喔南科管理局似乎還是有所欠缺因為這一案意象中在意見來往上其實也過很久了那所以"},{"start":13067.122,"end":13079.227,"text":"所以希望能儘早有個讓社會各界都滿意的答案那我覺得南科管理局應該要儘速來邀集相關的團體包括環保團體、台南市政府、專家學者來儘速再開會來釐清這個問題以上"},{"start":13084.923,"end":13111.883,"text":"好 謝謝那我自己的提案包括152跟154那也是關心有關於勞動權益違規還有這個管理費補繳相關的一個不正確比例那也希望主管機關回應一下 謝謝好 謝謝梁會委員那我請南科管理局"},{"start":13114.71,"end":13140.721,"text":"感謝委員給我們的關心那沙文園區其實這個案子在一開始到今天到每天都是我們的重點工作那我們一開始就知道說這個在社會各界都會很關注所以我們的平台在協作平台在110年12月就已經成立到目前已經開了11次的平台會議"},{"start":13141.661,"end":13162.156,"text":"每一次開幾乎都有非常多的生態議題很多學者保育團體還有專家通通有進來包括剛剛委員您講的那個市府環部通通有進來所以我們這一方面的努力我相信我們會持續那委員你能不能督促包括區內的"},{"start":13163.997,"end":13170.105,"text":"我們要怎麼建置三大農場要怎麼合併進來綠地還有二人溪沿岸的周邊"},{"start":13180.678,"end":13201.385,"text":"友善作為這個通通是我們納入我們的平台會議所以非常多的細目的一些工作我們都持續在進行中所以我想委員給我們督促我們會全力來努力這個請委員放心那至於羅委員剛剛提到的那個有關那個"},{"start":13204.617,"end":13227.118,"text":"勞工檢查跟管理費物質那個大概我們的作為跟中科差不多我們中科的其實我們也是獲獎單位我們在勞動部現在改為每兩年的集合考評集合我們都是有獲獎的那當然我會持續來精進至於那個物質部分我們原來的"},{"start":13228.88,"end":13241.774,"text":"我們加強那個抽查比例以後現在的那個誤差也降到剩下大概從原來兩成大概已經降到一成左右這個跟委員補充報告以上好 謝謝"},{"start":13247.674,"end":13273.219,"text":"第四幕原區業務推展 提案號149到154審查結果改為主決議的有149 150 151那我自己的152 154也改為主決議主席那我153也改為主決議153也列入所以這一幕就照列好 以上"},{"start":13274.609,"end":13298.183,"text":"這樣子的一個處理齁那第四項南部科學園區管理局處理完畢繼續處理152 153 154對阿改為主決議好這個有好繼續處理行政院國家科學技術發展基金基金來源第2號第1號基金收入請陳秀寶委員"},{"start":13300.97,"end":13301.611,"text":"提案要增列3000萬115年度基金財產收入權歷經收入編列是10億1070萬9千幣"},{"start":13318.729,"end":13343.297,"text":"之前114年度是多编列了53万但是我们看了一下113年度的全利金收入结算数是比115年度的预算多了6269万6千元显见我们各部会的投入科技研发的成果我们来投入产业端实际应用的成效是很优异的"},{"start":13343.937,"end":13372.023,"text":"那我在第二會期的時候其實有提過同樣的提案因為我們科發基金的收入決算數每年都比預算數還要高而且至少都多了3000萬尤其我剛剛提到113年度的決算超過了6000萬顯然是我國的這個科技研發的成果真的是有很好的應用那國會會裡面有說明這些科研的成果因為各部會各自推廣授權可能沒有辦法增列這麼多那我想先請教主委"},{"start":13372.503,"end":13373.084,"text":"總收入啊因為通常我聽兩百萬因為"},{"start":13390.865,"end":13417.401,"text":"這個收入要繳庫啦那繳庫數多的話其實各機關各單位努力工作同仁能夠發的獎金就會變少所以可能請委員高抬貴賞那因為我本來提案陣列的金額是三千萬主委你覺得如果我一定堅持要陣列三百萬好"},{"start":13418.888,"end":13434.682,"text":"好 OK OK謝謝 謝謝好 謝謝所以我們就此案甄列"},{"start":13436.141,"end":13437.721,"text":"好謝主席在這裡我有五個案子"},{"start":13466.427,"end":13473.811,"text":"我先從第六案開始講第六案是有關於生殖能的能源應用"},{"start":13476.661,"end":13503.901,"text":"是希望這個因競數來訂定相關的法規來有辦法來進行後續的產業應用的規劃那國科會有說明說已經完成了國內低碳氫來源證明的制度指引那有預告說二氧化碳捕捉後封存管理辦法但是國科會的說明似乎沒有特別提到我提案文字裡的多元料源共發酵再利用相關規範"},{"start":13505.422,"end":13531.465,"text":"這部分可能要請國科會再說明一下那第七案第七案是談的是因為監察院曾對國科會這個再生的能源技術研究有要求提檢討報告的這個題目那內容大致是說再生能源的技術成熟度應在積極地向國際上的水準方向加強那同時也要強化這個跨部會的協作機制"},{"start":13533.146,"end":13559.205,"text":"經過國科會的說明有了解到目前政府我們有一個氣候變遷及淨零轉型的專案小組現階段也有積極在進行跨部會的資源整合跟協商至於國科會自己在科研的這個角色也有扮演應有的角色所以我這個案子就來改成主決議不過我也希望說國科會能在淨零轉型的研究上面能持續突破"},{"start":13560.586,"end":13581.982,"text":"第八案 這是有關於國防科技前沿探索計畫交由國科會來進行相關國防科技的研發的時候要加以提醒跟監督的事項 審計部是有指出說國科會的國防科技前沿探索計畫未必與國防需求緊密結合"},{"start":13583.042,"end":13595.488,"text":"這是審計部的報告可是經過說明國科會的說明我們有了解說國防部跟國科會在這方面其實有密切的溝通並有共同參與所以這個案子我也可以改組決議再來是第13案"},{"start":13602.697,"end":13620.194,"text":"第十三案是談國科會如何加入不易移植的數位科技研究我們有看到國家人權博物館有在做不易移植的資料庫甚至有一些科技數位的建模打造場景導覽"},{"start":13623.977,"end":13650.691,"text":"那我想國科會可能有稍微誤會我的意思我並不是要求你們就是主政這個議題而是要跟文化部共同來研商是否有相互配合的空間啦譬如說我們藉助國科會的科技力量來進行對不易於止的數位化的保存畢竟人文的這個領域跟數位應用科技的應用這是一個很大好"},{"start":13652.072,"end":13667.87,"text":"這是一個很大的機會那我認為說如果我可以藉這個機會去補足國家人權博物館做不來的地方那同時也讓國科會可以共同來幫忙這個不移植的各種的數位應用那我覺得這是一個好事所以我"},{"start":13669.031,"end":13685.353,"text":"才會有這個提案那麼這一案我還是可以改組決議不過我真的期待說可以儘早開會來研商怎麼樣相互的配合啦那等一下要請教國會說最快什麼時候能做到好那第14案第14案"},{"start":13686.918,"end":13706.557,"text":"是談的是說國科會的台灣講座計畫我之前在質詢的時候也有詢問過這個台灣講座計畫它最大的問題就是它不像韓國的計畫那目前並沒有針對這個捐贈講座教職跟合作大學共同設立基金那也沒有補助終身"},{"start":13707.678,"end":13722.02,"text":"終身軌的這種教職那我在提案文字也有提到就目前的經費分散在國科會外交部跟教育部那這個策略不一啦也沒有充足的保障那所以國科會"},{"start":13724.082,"end":13745.356,"text":"來預算說明的時候其實也有提到說是法規上的限制那當然我是期待說原理怎麼樣突破法制的這個限制讓更多的高教人才可以發揮他的所長所以應該要儘早來啟動這個協商的機制原理看有什麼樣更多可以向國際標竿來這個對齊的空間以上"},{"start":13754.554,"end":13755.395,"text":"我這邊總共有五案 那我一併來說明"},{"start":13770,"end":13780.57,"text":"先來說明第十二案那這個第十二案我關切的核心不是國防部是否能夠曾經跟會議或是提供作戰情境而是國科會投入國防科技前沿研發後"},{"start":13787.737,"end":13813.701,"text":"相關成果能否實際的來銜接國防需求是否能夠形成後續建案或採購的一個參考是否能夠避免以國防部還有經濟部及其他部會無人載具相關計畫重複投入以及人才培育技術擴散跟產業銜接是否可以追蹤所以本席要求要書面報告要有國科會"},{"start":13817.182,"end":13840.146,"text":"提出可以檢驗成果的銜接機制還有非經營驗測標準跨部會分工對照避免重複投入資控管方式以及供應鏈跟資安風險的一個查核原則能夠提出書面那我就將這一個案並案凍結那另外呢"},{"start":13845.148,"end":13849.369,"text":"第十八案 我關切的是企業的參與跟動能的減弱執行力下滑 成果公開比例也下降還有產協成果落地的一個問題國科會仍沒有提出114年至115年改善或具體的一個數據"},{"start":13867.834,"end":13871.377,"text":"國科會說明政策調整方向也沒有證明企業參與還有計轉商轉或是產業需求的一個契合度是不是有改善所以請國科會能夠提出包括隨到隨省之後的一個平均審查的一個時間通過例還有是否能夠提升產業參與的意願"},{"start":13896.696,"end":13912.77,"text":"還有宽寬企業參與限制後大型企業、中小企業及新創企業能參與的分部情形書面報告如果提出來我可以減少凍結至一百萬"},{"start":13914.434,"end":13940.824,"text":"那第十九案呢 這個到南方新矽谷推動的一個方案那我還是維持這個凍結案那國科會呢 會提出15億1498萬完整的一個預算的一個對照表那各執行單位之前則分工表以及進度延宕或是成果不佳的一個責任歸屬"},{"start":13941.724,"end":13960.923,"text":"那沙倫的AI產業專期110年度招商加速投資金額還有技術合作案地方就業人士人數及產學合作目標等方面的報告以後我再來決定如何解凍那第20案一個說明"},{"start":13968.064,"end":13983.181,"text":"這個重點在於研發成果收入應用之透明度可以檢核性及效益追蹤國科會雖說明制度但尚未提供保留保留款逐案資訊那麼執行力"},{"start":13986.364,"end":14010.442,"text":"第一那例行性的一個計畫回歸一般預算的一個季節成果也沒有說明季轉、商轉還有延伸成果的一個收入成效那請國會會能夠提出書面報告然後要求了改善計畫核定執行管理以及資訊公開之說明本案呢可以改組結議那第21案"},{"start":14014.173,"end":14030.987,"text":"本案比較關切的重點是核定金額執行力還有重大急迫性的一個認定以及有的一個預算分工及退場機制是否能夠完整的揭露國科會能夠回復屬制度性的一個說明也沒有提出著案清澈跟具體的案例國科會僅以制度"},{"start":14040.734,"end":14051.482,"text":"有制度、有審查來回應,但不足以支撐15億元的預算的必要性及透明度所以本席要求國科會來補充近三年計畫作案清澈包括申請部會、計畫名稱、核定金額、執行歷還有剩餘款繳回金額的計畫成果"},{"start":14065.111,"end":14087.134,"text":"二 重大急迫性的一個科技政策 書面的一個審查基準決定程序 最終核定前者三 近三年呢 因不符合重大急迫性 已既有的一個預算重疊成果指標不明後 可行性不足 而被退回的案件之件數的原因第四是預算中心所執行"},{"start":14088.463,"end":14110.33,"text":"做執行力偏低還有未銜接中長期規劃的一個具體的案件及改善措施無涉基民之著案摘要公立法院能夠審查事務議員預算是否有確有的一個必要那請提出報告本席可以改為主決議以上以上有請主管機關是不是回覆一下"},{"start":14120.526,"end":14147.68,"text":"好那我想有關幾位委員提供的這個意見第一個是我們那個林議員委員我請人文處來回應我們有關這個跟文化部不離子相關的是不是能夠鼓勵學界也進來研究的事情另外一個就是台灣講座的這個意見請人文處"},{"start":14150.643,"end":14179.686,"text":"是有關於宜金委員這邊提到第13案有關於國家人權博物館不義遺址的部分那這個部分呢其實國客會這邊呢我們會提供相關的協助尤其我們回去之後就會跟文化部這裡去詢問就是說他們有沒有實際上需要我們這裡實質協助的地方那我猜想其實他們那邊的這個計畫主持人或是協助的應該跟我們這裡的主持人也"},{"start":14180.266,"end":14200.486,"text":"有很多重疊的部分那我們就積極的去詢問他們的需求那在實施案的部分有關於台灣講座那確實委員會有提到我們過往是因為受限於一些法規的限制不過我們跟外交部還有教育部也都有橫向的聯繫那以國會這邊可以提供的部分就是說"},{"start":14201.267,"end":14220.113,"text":"我們其實是很專注在讓老師們在國外不管是新瑞教授或是傑出教授有辦法在國外開出相關的課程那這個部分跟教育部跟外交部做的事情就會有比較實質上面的差別那我們之後還是會積極的跟他們橫向的討論謝謝"},{"start":14224.608,"end":14232.619,"text":"有關蔡委員提出來的跟我們工程處產學處還有簡單處相關我先請工程處來回應"},{"start":14240.009,"end":14260.975,"text":"有關蔡委員提到國防科技探索計畫這邊如何跟軍方銜接其實我們在執行這個計畫的時候並不是說等著學界做完國防部再來銜接其實國防部一開始就有參與不管是從一開始的選題到每個月的管考"},{"start":14263.115,"end":14288.747,"text":"我們的這個驗測的規劃規格的制定其實他們都是有參與的那所以說這個在研發的過程除了這個研發過程參與之外其實我們也共同跟國防部還有經濟部那裡訂定了一個銜接的一個流程就是在前瞻的這個技術方面我們有一個前瞻員作會議在這個依技術成熟度的這個階段去"},{"start":14289.947,"end":14301.23,"text":"借接到國防部的先進科研計畫然後再往下的話這個這個整平市那邊也會再跟經濟部借接到產業所以我們是有一個完整的規劃那會依據這個研發的這個進程去進行謝謝好那產學處"},{"start":14312.307,"end":14339.526,"text":"委員 這裡跟委員報告一下因為產學制度這些修改的法規都剛剛開始而已那我們最近的還是focus在讓企業知道這件事情包含我們制度改隨道隨省企業參與建樹或是企業的配合款之類的現在都還在努力當中那我們最近會就是找學校的平台跟工協會之間的一個合作我們盡量來促成這些的案子那委員提到也這些產學合作公開的問題就是因為"},{"start":14340.486,"end":14365.922,"text":"產權合作其實主要是還有一些合作企業的權利那他們並沒有想要這個公開所以我們目前是還是都以這個精簡報告為主那我們一樣也會透過其他的方式包含TIE展來幫忙廣宣那另外也跟委員補充報告那有一些案子我們是可以延後公開這個報告那如果我們經過統計"},{"start":14367.663,"end":14389.762,"text":"延後公開兩年的這個比例也跟以前差不多都大於50%以上補充報告好再來是我們前瞻處那委員這題是關心說我們大南方新矽谷的這個方案我們有一個推動的委員會我們也有推動辦公室那還有跟南科管理局之間是怎麼樣子來做合作跟分工的"},{"start":14390.402,"end":14419.719,"text":"那這個部分就跟委員報告一下因為大南方新矽谷的這個方案是行政院的方案它其實是希望打造整個南台灣的AI的生態系所以從行政院這個通過了之後其實我們就立刻就成立了一個推動委員會這個委員會的成員就包括了跨部會包括國發會 包括經濟部 包括樹發部包括台南市政府還有我們一些地方的這些重要的學研單位"},{"start":14421.16,"end":14441.414,"text":"那針對這個部分的我們每一季會開一個推動委員會來去做跨部會的協調那在下面就會有個推動辦公室去做實際上面這個產業的推動還有一些這個比較是程序面的這個事務階層這個部分的合作那南科管理局一直都在我們的這個大南方的這個推動"},{"start":14442.635,"end":14471.374,"text":"的這個方案裡面跟我們持續來去做討論那他也有一個剛剛委員都有關心他有一個南科的一個深海園區我們其實是整體都有在這整個這個機制下面去做一個很密切的搭配那並不會說南科管理局跟我們大安南方的這個整個的推動委員會有一些漢格或是一些重疊的這個部分所以我這邊就跟委員做一個說明謝謝"},{"start":14473.916,"end":14488.887,"text":"國科會主政的部分主要都是在補助我們學界全國的學界的研發工作當然國科會也是我們行政院的一份子國科會也在經營管理我們的科學園區我們下面還有一個"},{"start":14491.449,"end":14513.922,"text":"國研院的這個很多的這個研究的國家研究的中心那這些其實是整個要合併在運作啦所以除了國會自己本身在這邊的預算之外其實還有很多其他部會的預算會在那個大南方信息股裡面同步來運作所以如果有需要我們再說明的話我們會跟委員來報告好現在我們要處理這個"},{"start":14522.352,"end":14531.427,"text":"第二案到二十六案喔審查結果改為主決議的有二請委員說明"},{"start":14537.428,"end":14559.913,"text":"剛剛有做個說明所以在18案這個地方可以改組結議那19案也可以改成組結議再來就是這個12案也可以改成組結議還有20是不是20"},{"start":14565.717,"end":14593.564,"text":"二十本來就已經改組決議了二十已經宣告了 我來處理好 那我是第四案那也改組決議改為組決議的有二 三 四 五 七 八 九十 十二 十三 十五 十六 十八 十九二十 二一 二三 二四 二六以上"},{"start":14594.867,"end":14623.515,"text":"所提到治案改為主決議那想要問在場委員我們現在在基金用途合併對於檢列凍結有沒有大家有意見的請現場委員提案好 以上委員都沒有意見那我們就基金用途的部分我們就剛剛提到的改為主決議"},{"start":14626.618,"end":14651.722,"text":"接著處理行政院國家科學技術發展基金之組決議提案案號是27-31我們可以看到27-29是同一個項目那組決議的部分主管機關有沒有意見沒有照案通過30案有文字修正"},{"start":14653.649,"end":14667.663,"text":"主管機關有沒有意見沒有好修正通過第31案的委員提案主管機關有沒有意見沒有好照案通過行政院國家對不起主決議提案案號27到31案審查結果"},{"start":14671.53,"end":14696.153,"text":"照案通過27至2931修正通過30行政院國家科學技術發展基金處理完畢接著處理國家科學對不起科學園區管理局作業基金業務總支出向業務成本與費用提案號第一案第二案"},{"start":14701.838,"end":14728.953,"text":"劉淑斌委員請說明好 謝謝主席這一個第一案是涉及到科學園區管理局作業基金的部分特別是在它的環境保護的用途上面本期這邊所提出來的是從現在的資料看出來"},{"start":14730.414,"end":14739.802,"text":"科學園區它本身目前所做的業務是在做在西竹科學園區它做的是淨零推動跟環境永續推廣計畫那其他的園區它做的是溫室氣體的管理計畫可是我們知道所有的在做淨零攤牌它應該有最主要的三個動作一個是在做盤查 再來就是減量那還要再談論到說如果有技術品的就是"},{"start":14755.053,"end":14763.081,"text":"要做碳中和跟這個抵銷但是目前我們看到的是科學園區這些管理局的作為基金裡面他應該只做到所謂盤查那盤查裡面看到的是有盤查之後就登錄或者是在揭露可是後續的檢探的部分卻沒有再呈現出來他到底做到的他的目標是什麼然後還要包括他的成果是什麼"},{"start":14779.598,"end":14795.36,"text":"那這邊很重要的是我們知道科學園區是裡面的資訊業跟所謂的技術的產業是非常重要大家除了能源的產業之外它大概是最重要的排碳"},{"start":14796.081,"end":14801.885,"text":"排碳的一個來源但是竟然沒有做到這樣的一個包括我說的到到底目標尤其是我們2050年就要做到淨零碳排你有增加沒關係可是你包括負碳的減少那邊也沒有出現"},{"start":14811.212,"end":14813.974,"text":"我在這邊就是要求的是說 請等一下科學園區這邊的主管電話就要提出來說到底是這麼多的科學園區他們在個別的一個檢探的目標還要包括他的目前已經達到的成果是什麼要做出來 要做一個報告那這部分當然還包括檢探狀況 而且現在我們看到的"},{"start":14834.77,"end":14847.569,"text":"雖然三個科學園區的主管有來做報告但是可以看得出來說他們對於年度之間的比較也沒有呈現出來實在是覺得我們的科"},{"start":14850.092,"end":14869.247,"text":"國科會這邊其實是很重要在做包括有做一些科技的研發在做檢探可是在整個量的部分就沒有看到所以我要求是說要對個別的跟實質跟整體的科學園區他們在檢探的部分要做到目標跟成果的報告等等的這邊我先聽聽看還有不去連結的是"},{"start":14871.348,"end":14898.83,"text":"對 環境部 因為沒錯 環境部這邊最重要的是他要做檢探但是 怎麼樣去跟環境部做他們相關的一個連結我也是想說 作為科大部會 那個主委你本身也是政委嘛在這邊是不是也能提出來說你怎麼樣去跟科技部做這樣的一個會商在目標的全國 我們在台灣作為一個重要的地球村的議員怎麼樣去做連結 那我想聽聽看你們的說明之後我再做我看後面怎麼樣的做決定 謝謝"},{"start":14901.032,"end":14916.923,"text":"好謝謝委員那我是第二案吼也是關心跟委員一樣吼跟科學園區溫室氣體的排放量吼我們還是覺得這個目前吼排放量是增加了一個趨勢那因應全球減碳都是一個共識吼"},{"start":14917.924,"end":14941.183,"text":"碳費的制度也已經正式上路那園區高排放的廠商未來也會面臨這個可觀的碳費負擔所以我認為主管機關應該要加強輔導廠商要提出自主的減碳計劃以爭取未來優惠費率降低營運的壓力不只是維護空氣品質也讓廠商未來對於這個壓力"},{"start":14947.068,"end":14957.762,"text":"營運的部分能夠更加有機會先行的來規劃避免以後遇到龐大的碳費負擔也希望主管機關能夠提出說明以上"},{"start":14959.042,"end":14981.077,"text":"好 謝謝劉委員跟趙偉我先請我們書副主委來回應謝謝劉委員還有趙偉同時關心這個碳排的問題我想科學園區其實持續以來在針對碳排的部分包含協助廠商做碳排放的洩漏以及做減碳以及甚至是做到企業社會責任這個部分都持續在進行那具體來看的是說"},{"start":14982.598,"end":15010.671,"text":"符合環境部這個溫檢排放達2.5萬噸的製造業其實在科學園區裡面有38家有109場我們目前有超過100場已經提出這個自主減量計畫這個剛剛羅委員也有提到的自主減量計畫那對於未來2050年的淨零碳排各個主要的廠商其實他對於他自己的減碳的路徑都有規劃那科學園區管理局三個管理局也持續在進行"},{"start":15011.451,"end":15029.244,"text":"每一家廠商的進場輔導那在具體的輔導措施上面我們包含從它的整個節能然後整個製程當中對於碳排包含含氟的尾氣以及製程的改善都有相關的措施邀請所有專家學者來進場進去具體的輔導希望各個廠商能夠具體共同邁向這個淨零排放的一個目標來做進行那整個的碳排因為園區一直在成長"},{"start":15039.252,"end":15061.79,"text":"包含產能以及營業額的增加所以我們其實過去我們如果說整個減碳的密度來看其實從110年到113年我們其實下降了20%就是說單位的營業額或者是單位的產能所造成的碳排但是當然還有持續努力的空間這個部分我們會朝碳中和跟最後淨零減碳的一個方向來做一個發展以上先報告"},{"start":15062.915,"end":15087.72,"text":"那跨部位的合作我們的確是有緊密在跟環境部、經濟部因為很多的排碳的議題是轉移到能源部門那能源部門的話我們原區的產商也都是非常積極的優先使用我們的力能的部分雖然價格可能會比較高,他們都是會優先來使用所以這部分我們其實有跨部位在合作"},{"start":15089.073,"end":15097.025,"text":"好 以上不會說明 那請蘇冰委員我們是不是就處理這一個科目但是我還要詢問一下 因為這一個的資料齁"},{"start":15101.482,"end":15126.491,"text":"可以看出來的確是跟經濟部跟環境部是有相關那剛才那個您是副主委有一個提到是說當單位的這個密度有在減低但是當你的量是變多的時候尤其看到南科那個增加速度是很快的這部分可是我們還是必須要敬領嘛因為他最好是看總量對不對我在想說是不是可以請"},{"start":15130.439,"end":15157.649,"text":"國科會這邊你們要自己做出屬於你們自己特性的性質的這樣的一個檢探報告我的目的就是在這個部分然後到時候是而不是分散的因為你現在把他當作是廠商的自己的一個工作了他在進行但是如果我們用一個不然科學委員的建議是很好其實我們三個園區管理局都會做這個事情但有這個現在現成就有這種報告嗎"},{"start":15159.881,"end":15185.713,"text":"我們應該我們都有就是在在淨零方面的努力我們有簡單的路徑跟相關公司協力一起來做簡單的方法那你們目標呢我們來整理給你們例如說2030 2035 40的這種目標在在怎麼樣足量因為我上次看到三個科學園區的那個計畫上好像只到2035嘛這部分你們可是怎麼樣去連結到2050你們自己本身"},{"start":15187.222,"end":15202.102,"text":"還是就是把它推到是國家政策的一個問題當然會配合國家政策但是我們管理局在整個園區的發展的部分我們也會整理我們這一部分的工作所以可以再提供給委員參考"},{"start":15203.497,"end":15210.368,"text":"對,那我才會覺得說,因為這是非常重要的,因為每個部會有他們自己的工作在做,例如說經濟部是做產業的,那環境部他就剪這樣,可是科學園區在國科會裡面所扮演的角色是說,因為你們還有一些科技研發嘛,"},{"start":15218.74,"end":15244.169,"text":"那在你們自己各個部會分工的一個在對淨零檢探淨零碳排的一個工作有該有分工的目標在所以我在想說應該我覺得我應該要做的選擇應該讓以去年上個會期在我們國科在教文裡面會對國科會的預算審查我記得當初是有做一個書面報告然後要是要通過之後"},{"start":15244.949,"end":15264.33,"text":"然後看到書面報告之後再做通過我覺得應該可以比照上個會期的方式去進行可以嗎是是是但這個凍結所以我覺得還是可能凍結大概那個主委你認為說凍結之後但是看到才進行盡量不要凍因為現在已經下半年了"},{"start":15267.854,"end":15278.748,"text":"但是我覺得要經過我們的教文委員會的一個同意我們會報告 就是委員需要我們一定會跟委員報告對 但是因為沒有造成一個效果也可以 我的意思是說"},{"start":15280.433,"end":15281.954,"text":"現在我們來處理這一個科目科學園區管理局作業基金業務總支出"},{"start":15311.03,"end":15339.253,"text":"向業務成本與費用提案號第一案第二案審查結果那我們業務成本與費用的部分有委員提案蘇冰委員結商的結果是應該是凍結100萬然後請國科會提出書面報告之後然後經過委員會同意之後解凍好 其他的委員有沒有意見"},{"start":15341.598,"end":15357.908,"text":"好 現場委員沒有意見喔對於這個業務成本與費用凍結100萬並針對凍結提案之要求依審查會決議提出書面報告使得動之書面報告還經過委員同意好 提出書面報告經過委員同意委員會同意是因為一次好像會有好"},{"start":15372.359,"end":15384.783,"text":"如果委員會同意你們還要開會呢因為我記得上個會期好像都有針對這個過去有被凍結的部分還要再開都有在一次的委員會才知道那就是要變回專案報告上次好像沒有對專案報告好那就這樣子委員同意這樣子好了這樣子就這樣提出書面報告之後因為書面報告你看完嘛"},{"start":15401.263,"end":15423.788,"text":"就是這個部分可以嗎就讓委員同意啦喔 好不好 好不好好 提出書面報告後經委員同意 使得動之好這樣可以嗎好好 謝謝接著處理固定資產之建設改良擴充向中部科學園區建設計畫提案案號是第三案請問蔡春籌委員請發言"},{"start":15433.889,"end":15455.778,"text":"好 針對第三案來做一個說明那因為中科園區呢就是長期在財務的一個負擔都是虧損的那之前也有來到我們辦公室來做個說明就是說因為有一些土地徵收的原因讓整個財務負擔很重那在這裡呢 我覺得"},{"start":15461.68,"end":15474.131,"text":"還是會員區的招商成效還有就業效益跟地方政府以及大學合作呢仍然有希望能夠提出一個很具體的方案譬如說財務是負擔的那能夠制定一個在幾年幾年內呢能夠由虧轉盈這樣的一個計畫那應該"},{"start":15488.504,"end":15489.945,"text":"這個財務要怎樣來改善它我希望國會會能夠提出這樣的一個計畫出來然後因為在五月的時候五月底的時候有到雲林的湖北園區來做一個考察"},{"start":15504.654,"end":15526.118,"text":"那地方對於虎尾鹽區是很高度的一個期待因為主要虎尾鹽區可以帶動地方產業的一個發展還有就是就業人口的一個增加所以我們也希望除了等一下我們希望提出一些書面報告之外我也把我們的鄉親對於虎尾鹽區的一個期待在這裡也跟國科會做一個交流"},{"start":15534.039,"end":15540.26,"text":"除了這個碳匯上路對延期的一個廠商的成本還有招商競爭力還有中科管理級輔導措施應該會有影響評估之外呢我覺得因為雲林是農業大縣那麼在延期裡面的這些污水的一個處理啊一定要妥善來做一個處理而且要要求廠商呢應該要對水資源的一個處理能夠"},{"start":15561.445,"end":15575.156,"text":"做出水資源的一個經濟循環那因為呢 雲林呢那個地層下陷非常的嚴重所以在污水的處理呢一定要妥善的來做一個處理讓雲林的地層下陷能夠減緩"},{"start":15576.457,"end":15580.701,"text":"這個是鄉親的一個期待再來就是園區希望是能夠擴敞 擴寬土地的一個徵收在這裡也希望多數國科會也能夠來做協助"},{"start":15595.192,"end":15603.179,"text":"那希望呢 國客會能夠提出四個一個順便一個說明一是財務計畫的一個修訂案還有修正重點核轉行政院進度及預估核定的一期程二是為營運廠商期限進駐還有投資計畫匯值跟土地收回之具體的標準及115年度"},{"start":15618.752,"end":15624.474,"text":"預計處理加速再來三是福野原區廠商加速計劃投資金額實際就業人數在地聘用的一個比例還有與雲林縣政府跟營科大、府科大合作的一個情形第四就是剛剛我談的碳匯的問題還有就是制定在這幾年內如何讓油虧轉營的這樣一個計畫能夠加速這樣的一個計畫之後"},{"start":15648.4,"end":15658.527,"text":"本案可以改成主決議好 謝謝那委員改成主決議是不是請我們現場的主管機關簡略的回應一下"},{"start":15660.604,"end":15681.572,"text":"謝謝委員這邊的一個指導首先我報告的就是財務計畫的這個部分委員相當關心我們科學園區的財務計畫當然我們科學園區就一直在擴建以中科來講中科目前就是擴建二期投入也將近有400多億所以債務會增加"},{"start":15683.613,"end":15704.586,"text":"我們科學園區的財務計畫的修訂的一個草案目前已經送到跟委員報告已經送到行政院目前已經在修正在核定當中了那所以這個部分我們有整體的一個考量整個如何的來把這個財務計畫做的更加的一個完善那至於"},{"start":15706.267,"end":15723.902,"text":"剛剛特別提到的整個營運廠商的管理特別關心到湖北園區的這個部分湖北園區目前大概有28家的廠商有投資大概是1167億元這個部分因為我自己本身也是雲林人"},{"start":15724.562,"end":15750.749,"text":"所以對整個廠商的一個營運的狀況未來我們還是會持續的來積極的來招商然後讓整個的園區的一個運作整個的營運更加的成長茁壯然後呢來促進地方的一個發展那至於這些的招商跟產學合作的這一個部分那我們也會積極的因為雲林有幾所的一個大學包括虎科大、雲科大的我們現在目前都有在合作"},{"start":15751.649,"end":15762.013,"text":"合作當中所以整個的包括人力資源產業的這個部分我們都請學校來特別來支持我們希望能夠在地員工能夠來增加至於污水的一個處理這個循環經濟因為我們中科"},{"start":15769.797,"end":15782.349,"text":"在本園區我們已經有設立了循環經濟的一個園區最主要是在來服務整個半導體產業的所以這個運作也相當相當的成功那麼後續在湖北園區這邊也會投入這個循環經濟這個產業跟包括污水的處理那現在已經有污水處理廠環制中心"},{"start":15789.136,"end":15795.06,"text":"那整個循環經濟我們會再比照台中園區來做一個建構那至於碳費的這些的一個開增更感謝委員這邊剛剛的一個關心就是說我們這些大廠我們不僅是盤查輔導那我們也希望他們能夠來減量所以這個部分我們也持續的再來做那最後一個是地方發展的這些的擴建那因為科學園區的一個擴建有它一定的程序"},{"start":15818.775,"end":15828.202,"text":"未來有需求的話我們要按照這些的一個程序來辦理那感謝委員給我們的一個支持那也謝謝委員來支持我們這一項的一個預算 謝謝好 謝謝固定資產之建設改良擴充項中部科學園區建設計畫提案案號第三案審查的結果改為主決議第三案"},{"start":15847.372,"end":15870.204,"text":"其他的預算照列處理接著我們要處理科學園區管理局作業基金之主決議提案號是第四案第五案請問一下第四案跟第五案主管機關有意見好我們照案通過主決議提案號第四案第五案審查結果照案通過的是45"},{"start":15873.7,"end":15894.952,"text":"科學園區管理局作業基金處理完畢接著處理行政法人國家災害防救科技中心之主決議提案號第一案請問主管機關有沒有意見好我們就照委員的提案照案通過第一案國家災害防救科技中心處理完畢"},{"start":15898.14,"end":15921.582,"text":"行政法人國家災害防救科技中心已審查完略 請問需交由黨團協商嗎本案不需交由黨團協商 接著處理行政法人國家太空中心業務計畫政策推動計畫 提案號是第一案請問委員的提案 主管機關有沒有意見"},{"start":15928.999,"end":15953.685,"text":"對委員的提案是改為主決議OK國家太空中心業務計劃向政策推動計劃提案號第一案改為主決議接著我們要處理總支出向業務成本與費用提案號是第二案及第三案"},{"start":15955.831,"end":15981.033,"text":"那因為委員的部分呢他們願意改為主決議啦齁那主管機關也都OK啦齁可以齁總支出項業務成本與費用提案號第二案第三案審查結果改為主決議二三國家太空中心處理完畢行政法人國家太空中心已審查完畢請問需交由黨團協商嗎請問委員"},{"start":15984.465,"end":15997.33,"text":"本案不須交由黨團協商審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響文藝前提下授權議事人員以115年"},{"start":16001.331,"end":16026.666,"text":"中央政府總預算預算審查報告黨團協商之範例來整理列入記錄關於本日上午會議做如下的決議一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會所屬單位預算案行政院國家科學技術發展基金"},{"start":16027.466,"end":16049.902,"text":"及科學園區管理局作業基金附屬單位預算案均已審查完略115年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案審查完略拟據審查報告提請院會公決不需交由黨團協商院會表決討論時"},{"start":16055.147,"end":16078.965,"text":"院會討論時由羅昭吉委員庭委補充說明115年度行政法人國家太空中心預算案審查完畢你據審查報告提請院會公決不須交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅昭吉委員庭委補充說明對於"},{"start":16080.171,"end":16103.104,"text":"委員質詢要求提案的相關資料以及未及時答覆的部分也請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會上午的議案議程處理完畢現在休息我們下午2點30分繼續開會"},{"start":16108.353,"end":16112.79,"text":"好我們要不要請委員現場委員還在的是不是到前面我們拍個照"},{"start":17455.308,"end":17455.39,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":21256.104,"end":21281.473,"text":"好 報告委員會現在繼續開會本日下午會議議程繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案及故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案首先在場介紹所有的委員吳思耀委員郭益群委員"},{"start":21284.142,"end":21307.379,"text":"與會的官員國立故宮博物院院長蕭忠煌副院長黃永泰副院長余珮瑾行政院主計總處公務預算處專務委員張振輝其餘列席的機關代表請參院名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報紀錄"},{"start":21311.773,"end":21337.082,"text":"現在進行預算案審查國立故宮博物院單位預算案提案118案故宮文物藝術發展基金預算案提案9案進行討論前先說明預算案的討論方式委員所提預算提案稅入部分依來源別依項為單位稅出的部分依機關別依目結為單位"},{"start":21340.114,"end":21367.328,"text":"依序进行审查各预算案与处理的委员所提增三提案后其余会涉及预算支部分的预算案均与照列预算提案如改组决议修正的内容请机关将修正内容经提案委员签名同意后送交主席台并列入公报记录讨论时请参阅提案会诊表"},{"start":21368.274,"end":21385.214,"text":"以及提案本請議事人員宣讀預算數及提案內容並進行討論與協商提案討論時如果新增或者是修正之文字主決議請議事人員一併宣讀"},{"start":21399.619,"end":21424.655,"text":"国立故宫博物院收支部分税路部分第二款房款取赔偿收入第九项国立故宫博物院三百万元第三款部队收入国立故宫第六项国立故宫博物院四亿六千一百零七万八千元第四款财产收入第十项国立故宫博物院七千九百六十万元第五款营业营业及事业收入第二项国立故宫博物院一千万"},{"start":21427.816,"end":21452.596,"text":"第五項公立雇工服務業項目第四項公立雇工服務業項目第五項公立雇工服務業項目第四項公立雇工服務業項目第五項公立雇工服務業項目第四項公立雇工服務業項目第四項公立雇工服務業項目第四項公立雇工服務業項目第四項公立雇工服務業項目第四項公立雇工服務業項目"},{"start":21453.567,"end":21471.895,"text":"首先處理稅務部分依款別以項為單位依序處理第三款歸費收入第六項國立故宮博物院提案案號由第1案至第3案請提案委員說明陳秀寶委員"},{"start":21473.646,"end":21487.76,"text":"在這個部分呢我的案子是第三案是覺得說我們希望故宮這邊能夠更積極辦理相關的吸引更多遊客的展覽那也希望說遊客不限收視"},{"start":21488.48,"end":21506.935,"text":"國外遊客 國內的我們符合不同族群不管是兒少 親子 成人 樂齡種種我們相關不同的對象的這個展覽我們去規劃相關系列的活動那故宮這邊你們是有來說明說因為去年的售票沒有達標所以"},{"start":21508.056,"end":21531.904,"text":"你們覺得說不要再增列了但是我覺得說就是應該要增列讓你們有一點肌力但我沒有說一定要增列到我提的這個金額但是我會希望說你們還是要自己定一個目標去達成然後還是要增列一個數字那這個本身等一下請故宮說明一下我們可以討論以上謝謝"},{"start":21536.141,"end":21542.944,"text":"好 謝謝委員說明還有其他委員要發言嗎好 如果沒有的話請故宮說明"},{"start":21557.489,"end":21583.682,"text":"顧公針對門票收入的部分稍微說明一下剛剛委員其實也有提到我們上次去拜會有提到像去年114年門票的實收是3.59億元但是去年的法定預算就是編列的數字是4.09億元其實我們就沒有達標了然後再加上今年的我們顧公的預算有增編了1106萬6千元"},{"start":21586.903,"end":21614.273,"text":"然後目前目前的那個115年就今年1到5月跟去年同期來比我們的收入其實是減少的所以是不是說我們當然會努力那是不是這個門票收入就不要再往上加了因為我們已經加了1100多萬了那以上說明好那請委員這個部分"},{"start":21617.06,"end":21635.468,"text":"謝謝主席其實我提增令其實真的是希望說我們故宮對自己有一個期許有一個目標去達成但如果說這個狀況之下你們已經去年就沒有達標了然後今年又叫你們增令所以你們的壓力會更大那我是同意可以改成主決議但是我覺得你們還是要"},{"start":21636.468,"end":21647.702,"text":"去努力去策劃各種不同適合不同族群然後不同對象這樣子的活動我們來吸引更多人願意用貼借他自己想要的主題來參觀好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":21659.648,"end":21681.264,"text":"首先第三款貴費收入第六項國立故宮博物院提案案號第一案至第三案改為主決議123預算照列繼續處理第四款財產收入第十項國立故宮博物院提案案號是第四第五案"},{"start":21684.894,"end":21709.549,"text":"現場有收到他們的這個來文說全部改為組決議那我們就照案照列那第四款財產收入第十項國立故宮博物院提案號第四案第五案改為組決議預算照列繼續處理第五款"},{"start":21712.567,"end":21733.067,"text":"營業營餘及事業收入第二項國立故宮博物院提案號是第六案第六案審查的結果第六案的委員有在提說改為主決議其他的預算照列"},{"start":21736.784,"end":21754.104,"text":"稅錄處理完畢我們要繼續來處理稅出的提案處理時以幕或節為單位依序由各提案委員先就提案的內容來進行說明再由機關代表予以答覆然後再依幕或節"},{"start":21755.405,"end":21778.206,"text":"做成決議現在處理稅出的部分第五項國立故宮博物院通案的部分提案案號第七案業務費的部分業務費的部分羅志強委員的提案改為主決議審查結果第七案改為主決議預算照列"},{"start":21779.468,"end":21794.932,"text":"接著我們要處理第一幕一般行政提案的案號是第8案到21案請委員舉手好我們就由前面開始不好意思"},{"start":21799.878,"end":21822.483,"text":"那我們就依序由林一錦委員吳思堡委員對不起對不起吳思耀委員不好意思抱歉抱歉第二位吳思耀委員第三位吳立華委員第四位陳培宇委員第五位還有嗎吳培宇委員"},{"start":21823.936,"end":21832.489,"text":"好 請發言 謝謝好 謝謝主席我是二十案二十案這一案是針對正副院長特別費提出凍結那"},{"start":21835.339,"end":21855.37,"text":"主要是因為圖顯的問題有兩個面向第一 故宮南院欠缺副院長常駐這個牽涉到正副院長職責第二 故宮南院欠缺正副院長常駐已經是檯面上的議題那我覺得如果立法院不加以監督恐怕是一個失職的表現"},{"start":21857.031,"end":21872.018,"text":"長期鑽研故宮發展的日本媒體人 野島剛他在故宮百話這本書有一段是對蕭院長的採訪主題就圍繞在南越是不是需要派副院長常駐這件事當時蕭院長回答得很明確"},{"start":21877.401,"end":21898.399,"text":"我甚至認為院長會在南院比較好或者副院長一直留在南院但是兩位副院長都不願意像院長公開發表這一席話其實已經遠遠不是故宮南院到底需不需要副院長常駐而已而是直接點出了故宮治理的根本問題第一個"},{"start":21900.32,"end":21918.647,"text":"院長的意志沒辦法落實第二 副院長拒絕執行院長的命令第三 這個故宮的人員長年是排斥副南院來工作那實際上 2015年就發生政府的處長幾乎都不在南院工作的爭議"},{"start":21919.787,"end":21935.477,"text":"那2017年時任院長的那個林院長他承諾因為你一定會找一個副院長來坐鎮南院那從歷史記錄可見其實副院長到底該不該坐鎮南院其實也不是到蕭院長接掌故宮後才受到關注的議題"},{"start":21936.597,"end":21958.813,"text":"當年林鄭宜院長公開承諾一定會找一個副院長來坐鎮南院那可是今天蕭院長已經有公開表示說兩位副院長都不願意坐鎮南院那當然相較之下態度上有天壤之別所以我等一下還是要請蕭院長說明那既然你當著媒體的面有提出這樣的問題那你覺得要怎麼樣來解決這個問題以上"},{"start":21967.746,"end":21982.036,"text":"我有兩個案很快速的說明12案是對故宮的期許我一直期待故宮能夠更開放而且更年輕化所以說要善用跟教育部的大學社會責任USR的合作"},{"start":21982.856,"end":22009.899,"text":"故宮是有做但是是比較被動的看哪些大學提案譬如說就近的東吳大學有提案故宮就願意用展覽或者活動來配合我是期許說其實故宮有好的經驗我發現你們在111年在設計研究院的新一代設計展裡頭其實故宮有主動參與故宮出題讓年輕世代的學生來解題也就是故宮拋出一個新的想像"},{"start":22010.7,"end":22034.133,"text":"让年轻人的思维来导入一个新的solution所以对照于这样子的做法我认为在大学社会责任的计划里头故宫也可以广发英雄帖或者是主动的来邀集大学的参与这是我的期待我咨询也提到我相信故宫只要愿意很多的大学都很有意愿"},{"start":22034.873,"end":22050.718,"text":"我接觸過的尤其我服務的選區在士林北投就近的學校甚至在大直的實踐大學都很樂意如果故宮有機會大學是會責任他們恨不得可以讓學生來接近故宮的文物來做文化的學習這是第一個提案"},{"start":22051.358,"end":22069.96,"text":"第二个提案是第十四案为故宫的住位警来请命故宫的住位警如果相较于其他中央机关的住位警譬如说公股银行中央印制厂等等他相关的薪资专案津贴夜间执勤费好像是比较低的"},{"start":22070.561,"end":22096.518,"text":"我覺得這個可以確認一下好嗎因為我想在故宮畢竟也比較偏遠大家上下班付出的通勤時間然後要負責國保的維安大家也loading比較重所以是不是能夠拉平拉齊要不然我們的諸位警跟其他部門比起來A就比較低我覺得這也是不合理的所以這兩個案子等一下請你們回覆一下謝謝"},{"start":22101.274,"end":22120.293,"text":"好 謝謝主席我這邊有第17案那這第17案是關於人力的部分因為我們看到就是115年度的預算案中預計禁用的非典型人力是317人那經費是高達2億"},{"start":22124.837,"end":22142.985,"text":"三千多萬但是承攬人力這個部分我們看到這幾年當然是逐年攀升那不過比較特別的是說在115年度編列的這311人呢比起去年的285人"},{"start":22145.106,"end":22164.026,"text":"可以說增加了26人但是他的增幅是高達11.54%那故宮這邊有表示就是因應北部院區有一個第二展覽館那需要這樣的人力可是我們相對看參觀人次的時候會發現"},{"start":22165.788,"end":22191.262,"text":"你們自己預計今年的參觀人次是259萬人次那比去年的255萬人次增加的幅度是1.57%所以一個11.54的增加人力跟自己預計參觀人次增加1.57%這個明顯就是落差是蠻大的所以我這邊是先動"},{"start":22193.623,"end":22203.948,"text":"那希望等一下做個說明或者是提出報告然後再做動之以上說明好 謝謝吳麗華委員 下一位陳秀寶委員"},{"start":22208.593,"end":22224.38,"text":"謝謝主席我在這邊的案子是第19案主要是強調說我們的院區清潔養護的部分那之前我在質詢的時候我們那時候是關心關於病媒紋還有像老鼠這樣的問題那院長是說這個我們清潔環境維護得很好他不會進到故宮的室內"},{"start":22230.823,"end":22254.271,"text":"但是螞蟻的出現就是民眾有指出說展示會出現螞蟻螞蟻的出現不見得是因為食物有時候他就是找到一個覺得很舒適的地方他就在那邊做一個草事所以說雖然目前你們說已經有當時展出的這些已經都撤下來了而且有再注意到說有清潔但是我會希望說"},{"start":22255.831,"end":22275.183,"text":"故宫可以很仔细的对我们环境的清洁养护能够更用心因为这样子的一个小的生物进去其实我们也许没有很注意到但是等它是一窝还是说它已经繁殖还是说它已经在那边一个固定的巢穴的时候可能对我们的文物的伤害等到发现的时候也许是没有办法补救了"},{"start":22275.723,"end":22286.555,"text":"所以這個部分呢你們有來說明呢那這邊我沒有堅持一定要凍結但是我會希望說你們要精進你們相關的環境清潔及防治的工作以上 謝謝好 陳柏宇委員"},{"start":22291.4,"end":22316.774,"text":"好谢谢主席第一幕的部分呢我有一个提案是第16案关于故宫的亲资会我们办公室从112年的10月26号当时故宫的预算询达到113年的10月当时故宫的业务报告到114年故宫的预算提案我都一再的提醒故宫关于亲资会的设置要点里面一首先故宫对于儿童的定义还有青年的定义其实都非常的特别"},{"start":22317.214,"end":22330.129,"text":"如果對軌於其他行政院的其他機構我覺得故宮在這個部分認知上有很大的落差那另外呢故宮在今年總算說好關於兒童委員的部分你們會再邀請進來但是"},{"start":22332.111,"end":22350.02,"text":"我必須要說你們說他們只能列席他們不能發表意見這個急救章的做法其實並不是青資會設立的目的那如果我們回來看故光目前的青資會裡面的名單七個學生代表裡面分別有高中生兩位大學生五位完全忽略了國小跟國中生也沒有納入研究生"},{"start":22350.62,"end":22368.753,"text":"也就是說從對於兒童的定義跟了解或者是對於親子會的組成甚至要邀請什麼樣年級段還有故宮的親子會到底如何看待所謂這些未成年參觀的人他們其實是未來故宮很重要的潛在的認識故宮的一群大人他們現在只是小孩"},{"start":22369.233,"end":22390.953,"text":"那如果我們在顧光很多事務的推展上明明知道應該要設輕資會也設了但是年齡找的又方向完全不對那我認為其實把兒少的聲音沒有帶進去其實對於顧光場域的發展來看非常非常的可惜那更不要說對於兒少表藝圈參與顧光很多就算是展覽的規劃活動的規劃也好都沒有存在非常非常可惜所以我還是要說"},{"start":22391.753,"end":22404.958,"text":"目前我們現在提案是凍結100萬我等一下可以跟其他的委員並動但是還是希望提出對於親資會故宮的在意因為已經連續三年我們只講這個事情再來21案關於故宮的難願採購到簡體中文垃圾桶的事情故宮現在給我們的回應是說當時採購了一批是14個那因為風災壞了4個所以在電商平台買那沒有發現買到簡體字的部分故宮有說後續會加強驗收程序加強採購的以台灣治為優先"},{"start":22420.944,"end":22425.72,"text":"這個部分我們可以改為主決議沒有問題好 以上謝謝好 下一位吳佩儀委員"},{"start":22427.404,"end":22444.973,"text":"我的提案是第15案那主要是因為文化部已經有發布那個文化產業淨零之印那故宮也是要來注重這永續發展那所以我們發現的主要是第一個是說我們的深度減能檢查北院的部分還沒有辦理完成第二個是我們的這個燈管燈泡還是用的是傳統的那故宮有來說明說明的蠻仔細的就是說因為我們現在在擴建計畫當中"},{"start":22452.717,"end":22458.14,"text":"所以之後也會逐步的來去汰換所以這個部分我的提案就改成主決議 謝謝好 以上應該沒有遺漏委員都已經發言完畢是不是請故宮回覆"},{"start":22472.892,"end":22490.518,"text":"是不是依照那個委員就是依照我們上面的目就是順序然後請那個同仁來做回應以目前來講的話當然第一個因為朝委的話是沒有發言所以是不是從伍思堯委員這邊來做一個回應"},{"start":22501.144,"end":22521.762,"text":"針對委員提到USR的部分其實我們故宮跟各大學的合作其實是非常密切的然後那時候有拜會的時候有補充這部分所以委員應該看到其實故宮一直以來跟各大學都有做合作只是提到說USR的部分"},{"start":22522.262,"end":22535.74,"text":"那其實有一些有可能我們沒去調查那各大學有可能有一部分也是有USR的參與但是委員有提到說有兩項那我們會積極來辦理所以是不是這個案子就不要幫我們改成處決議好 謝謝"},{"start":22541.957,"end":22555.435,"text":"好 我同意改給你們督促嘛 對不對然後主動出擊好 很多學校非常期待跟你們合作好 那我的下一案應該是那個朱瑞璟應該14第14案朱瑞璟快速回應就好"},{"start":22557.157,"end":22583.444,"text":"國務卿的部分跟國務委員這邊回應一下第一個部分就是完薪他分成兩塊一個是薪資的部分一個是福利的部分那薪資就是按照內政部警政署他有一個薪資表那個大概故宮比較難智慧那可是福利的部分就是他可以比照我們住在地的職員所以有關他們的獎金的事宜或者是這個相關的補貼的部分都要跟我們職員一樣不過有個部分就是上次委員就是諮詢之後院裡面很積極的動作是那個夜點費的調整"},{"start":22584.784,"end":22610.401,"text":"所以原本是從一百塊我們在這兩個禮拜時間然後會了這個人事總處還有內政部這邊取得一些共識之後院裡面就在行政程序上面去做一個處理已經把一百元調到一百五十元以上很好所以有要求就能夠督促嗎一個小時就多了五十塊從一百到一百五十塊好給你們肯定啦我兩岸都改組決議但是真的"},{"start":22611.571,"end":22617.095,"text":"這就是我們省預算提案的功用嘛不是為難預算 是請你們去改變 謝謝謝謝委員不好意思 請故宮回答好嗎其他的委員的案件 有點到的都麻煩請回應委員的需求"},{"start":22641.55,"end":22651.368,"text":"那個陳佩玉的案子 陳佩玉委員的案子對 胡佩玉委員他當已經同意了 那陳佩玉的委員就是有關那個親自會的問題"},{"start":22655.103,"end":22682.368,"text":"有關陳委員提案的這個部分想跟委員再進一步說明就是親自委員的部分我們第一屆的部分從第一屆到第五屆我們的青年比例也有逐步的上升從23%增加到62%所以我們是很重視兒少團體的一個就是兒少代表的一些意見那這一次的部分又很抱歉的委員這個部分就是我們第五屆的部分委員聘任"},{"start":22682.848,"end":22711.093,"text":"那因為我們認為是說那兒少的委員我們希望他有一個自由的一個發表的一個環境那不管是在空間資料或者是整個環境上面的準備我們都要非常的妥適那我們這一次用列席的方式我們希望能夠更加的準備妥適一些那因為兒少的委員在國中小以下我們特別是小學我們可能要有家長師長的一個陪同那因為親自委員的那個比例的部分我們有考量到就是"},{"start":22711.753,"end":22731.189,"text":"南北院的部分的區域之間的平衡還有就是青少年代表的一些譬如說人文啊理工的這個部分的背景那專家學者的部分我們也會考量多元的部分所以在這個部分我們就是確實是說有委員長期的在督促我們那我們今年的部分我們會"},{"start":22732.91,"end":22742.456,"text":"就是陸續把它處理就是邀請他們來參與那也想要跟委員特別說明的一點就是說我們在去年的時候我們針對兒少的這個部分有一個叫做兒童參與式的設計工作法就是我們的甲種宿舍的部分"},{"start":22748.78,"end":22754.547,"text":"我們未來要把它變成是兒童的一個探索空間所以我們在初期的階段我們就邀請兒童親子然後還有志工老師那我們一起來參與做不同的一個方式有可能就是我們就是用繪畫的形式或者是肢體的部分"},{"start":22766.081,"end":22779.791,"text":"限地踏茶的部分然後甚至是軟性的一些材料的部分來作為一個成果展那這整個一個系列等於是做一個完整的一個循環那我們相關的一些先期的規劃的資料我們也提供給我們的秘書單位那未來會針對兒童的探索小屋會有一些在細部設計上面也會請他們來參與那以上做一個說明回覆 謝謝"},{"start":22794.608,"end":22822.966,"text":"好 我們那個跟委員補充就是業務單位的意思就是說因為我們的那個親自會它有任期然後它有一個章程所以現在的話我們開始的話就是請國小列席的方式然後等到下一屆改選的時候我們就納入那個國小層級的那個委員不曉得委員這邊的話可不可以給我們一點點空間我還是要"},{"start":22824.81,"end":22845.115,"text":"如同剛剛司法委員說的我們的監督我們已經講了三年從一剛開始故宮對於自己有青絲會這件事情沒有搞清楚狀況到後來你們設置之後你們年齡的邀請也有極大的落差到了現在對於青絲會的兒少委員到底可以跟故宮如何協作這件事情我認為故宮真的都還是沒有正確的認知"},{"start":22846.355,"end":22871.46,"text":"那我相信在行政院的其他部會機構裡面都已經有很多親資會如果故宮在這件事情上真的沒有辦法定義清楚也不知道到底要怎麼推動甚至不確定要如何召集相關的兒少委員我認為有很多部會都很願意提供意見給故宮也拜託故宮去問那至於因為你們今年跟我說為什麼兒少只能列席不能參與決策表決是因為你們說第五屆已經開始了"},{"start":22872.74,"end":22890.183,"text":"那就是回到第四屆就是上一次我在提醒你們的時候其實還是沒有做對那我剛剛已經說我可以接受病棟沒有問題但是我的下一案我已經也改成主決議了還是要積極拜託故宮對於兒少委員的定義對於青資會的定義到底這些兒少可以提供給故宮什麼樣的意見"},{"start":22890.823,"end":22910.72,"text":"跟刚刚您所报告的儿童参与式工作坊去改儿童探索空间这件事情是两回事如果你都意识到儿童参与工作坊有儿童的声音是重要的那为什么你没有办法连接到青丝会把儿童的意见放进来是重要的而且不要忘记这个青丝会叫做儿童暨青年事务推动咨询会以上"},{"start":22912.192,"end":22939.333,"text":"OK 謝謝委員的指教因為請那個我們故宮同仁去了解就別的單位親自會有納入那個國小層級的如果故宮沒有納入的話基本上來講的話那就是我們本位主義太重所以這個部分我們會檢討那我想這個部分的話我會親自來盯這個事情那就是謝謝委員的指教我們會努力好 委員都君發言完畢那我"},{"start":22941.882,"end":22947.378,"text":"因為我也想講沒事那還是讓我講完我們一起一起回應好嗎"},{"start":22948.615,"end":22974.544,"text":"不好意思那我是第八案那我想在這個原額的部分預算原額是351人實際卻只有338人有13個缺額我們還是希望基本上補足人力來維護整個博物館的運作更希望提升品質安全諸如此類都是希望他能力的補足所以才提這個案子那"},{"start":22975.464,"end":22985.915,"text":"目前我是凍結的預算數待會跟大家一起討論我們並動那也麻煩林益勤委員所提的提案麻煩請回應 謝謝"},{"start":22999.126,"end":23016.799,"text":"跟林委員這邊報告一下就是有關我們副院長的這個部分應該是這樣說南院處現在在組織的這個規制上面就是屬於故宮的一級的內部單位所以他的最高的這個這個長官主管的部分是我們的單位主管就是南院處的處長副處長"},{"start":23018.14,"end":23035.438,"text":"那這兩位處長副處長都是長期都是在南院處這邊來做工作除非北部院區這邊有會議的話他們才會北上這邊來參與所以他們是很常性的都在南部就是執行公務那至於兩位副院長目前也都有各自督導的這個這個業務的這個屬性跟範圍所以"},{"start":23039.662,"end":23060.57,"text":"如果是南院處這些這兩位副院長的各自的專案其實副院長都是親自到這個南院這邊來做一個主持跟一個處理那我們院長更是幾乎週末啊或者是除了重要會議之外以及週末時間其實我們在群組上面看到那個院長幾乎都是在南院所以只能說在目前這樣子的整個組織運作底下"},{"start":23063.112,"end":23072.289,"text":"可能要有一個恆常性的副院長這樣子的一個可能還需要有一些推動的這個期程所以要請委員多多體諒這樣子"},{"start":23077.936,"end":23094.27,"text":"謝謝 謝謝回覆可是我覺得這個問題應該是院長你來回覆啦那當然啦 很清楚是齁那個目前現況確實是兩位副院長都在北院那院長跟副院長都在北院嘛那可是"},{"start":23094.99,"end":23118.662,"text":"某個程度我身為南部的委員我當然希望說南院是有所謂的院長層級的院長、副院長層級的人常住院來提升南院的位階這其實是無可厚非那這也是一個你如果把它常態化這也是一個提高位階一個很重要的方式因為你現在所謂的是南院處其實它就是一個處"},{"start":23119.722,"end":23143.638,"text":"跟其他的一樣的處是一樣的位階所以我覺得那個位階其實是不一樣的那為什麼想要請院長來提是因為院長我剛有提說你接受到野島剛的訪問的時候你有提到說兩位副院長都不願意來你既然有面對這個問題那我覺得你應該要想辦法去處理這個問題才對"},{"start":23146.781,"end":23164.269,"text":"那個先處理那個羅委員的那個痛切的問題我還沒講完你們想一下要怎麼回應阿邦我再講一個案子然後你想一下怎麼回應林益謹委員好嗎好讓你思考一下"},{"start":23165.506,"end":23181.573,"text":"那第11案呢基本上我們看到這一個一般行政所編列的這個辦理人員維持基本行政工作南北院的清潔但是我們看到整個預算書顯示本木一般事務費及設施機械設備的一個養護費金額甚鉅"},{"start":23184.534,"end":23203.536,"text":"所以業務分散於清潔維護 植栽養護 防汛搶險 避霉紋的一個防治 停車接駁 設備保養 多項的勞務承攬的一個事務我們看到整個缺乏明確的服務品質指標 巡檢記錄 缺失改善 追蹤南北醫院的一個執行狀況"},{"start":23204.557,"end":23221.901,"text":"我們都希望花的錢要有實際的KPI那也能夠確實轉化為我們需求的一個環境友善穩定參觀的一個環境所以在這個部分我提出了這樣子的一個凍結案也希望說能夠因而來督促相關的養護維護事務"},{"start":23225.64,"end":23235.689,"text":"好 那請院長是不是回覆一下林益錦委員的需求先他們回覆回覆我嗎因為我是後提後回啊先提先回啊"},{"start":23237.717,"end":23259.49,"text":"那個委員就是葉道剛的訪問基本上來講的話他是一個懂中文的日本人所以他訪問我的時候其實我們談了很多而且我們基本上來講的話就是蠻盡興的去談談了很多事情可是我看他是用日文去做記錄"},{"start":23260.85,"end":23277.263,"text":"用日文去做記錄日文做記錄之後的話然後再由張惠君就是現在中正紀念堂的處長把它翻成中文所以在翻譯的時候其實我沒有辦法像那個"},{"start":23278.9,"end":23295.402,"text":"烏蜜茶或是那個泥鰻栗一樣他們可以用日文直接對話所以在翻譯的過程裡面我其實發現也有很多東西的話因為數據的關係所以基本上來講的話就是有一些跟我當初表達的不盡然是相同"},{"start":23296.463,"end":23316.316,"text":"所以第一個我沒有要求兩個副院長其中一個選擇說誰要去這個我沒有我的表達如果我的回憶來講的話我就說第一個你要看組織法就組織法的規定他到底有沒有一個常駐的副院長另外一個的話就是說"},{"start":23317.216,"end":23335.364,"text":"常常去可以可是如果要他們常住那邊常住那邊的話就基本上來講的話要牽涉到他的居住他的生活那這個東西還要看人家願不願意所以但是他被簡化了之後的話就是兩個副院長不願意我基本上來講第一個"},{"start":23336.519,"end":23359.065,"text":"我沒有問過兩個副院長他們要不要但是我們只是這樣談論的時候就說因為牽涉到很多問題要看他們願不願意並沒有說他們不願意這是我要公開澄清的所以對於所謂的副院長季節執行院長的命令這個事情的話是沒有因為我不能"},{"start":23360.066,"end":23371.036,"text":"用這樣的方式去表示說兩個副院長就是不聽我的話領導同意有問題或是說院長的意志沒有辦法執行沒有這個事情"},{"start":23372.366,"end":23398.887,"text":"那另外的話在組織法上面的話南院的話南院其實南院處的話南院處是南院管理處是沒有錯簡稱南院處是我們自己內部的一個單位因為當初在討論故宮南北院的時候也曾經想過就是說南院要不要變成是一個派出的單位派出的單位的話就是南部分院南部分院的話那就是有一個南部分院的分院長可當初的決定不要"},{"start":23400.109,"end":23428.717,"text":"所以為了解決這個問題的話其實我當然我個人經常去南苑這是我個人的行為可是在每個月的工程督導或是每個月的策展的方面就是說我們一個副院長督導行政然後督導工程一個督導學術所以在會議的時候我們都會到南苑去開甚至我們的業務的會議業務的會議的話我們一年的話有兩次在南苑開"},{"start":23430.057,"end":23452.65,"text":"包括親自會也是一樣我們也會一次在北院開一次在南院開所以我們盡量就是說用實際上的的運作的話去解決南北院的一個平衡的差距那另外的話因為現在的視訊很方便我們隨時的話那個會議的話包括那個防災防信的話我們隨時視訊都可以連結所以這個部分的話我想"},{"start":23453.769,"end":23468.767,"text":"到目前為止並不會說因為南苑我們疏於去督導然後他的情況比較不好反而我認為說南苑我們現在是越來越好所以這個部分我要跟委員說明好"},{"start":23470.103,"end":23492.233,"text":"院長 我懂你的意思你的態度展現就是說其實大家都很重視南院然後您也常常來南院甚至你們的會議也常常在南院開這我都能理解南院現在也真的是越來越好現在重點是組織架構還是組織架構就是說您的主觀意識 我的理解"},{"start":23492.853,"end":23498.136,"text":"你是希望有一個副院長常駐南院主觀意識啦可是現在客觀條件沒辦法配合應該是這樣那當然你現在身為院長我期待你可以使力那看怎麼樣去把組織架構做一個調整讓南院有一個常駐的副院長我覺得這樣整個的職司才會比較完整比較權衡以上"},{"start":23518.64,"end":23535.389,"text":"故宮現在我們在進行小主改關於這樣的一個技術上的問題的話當然就是請我們人事主任這邊的話跟那個人總那邊去去去研議看看就是說用什麼樣一個一個方式我講老實話就像委員講的"},{"start":23537.07,"end":23565.709,"text":"如果我自己去南苑常住南苑的話基本上來講的話我也是願意對但是這是一個制度的問題不是個人意願的問題因為南苑風景優美每天早上都可以去散步走一圈啊什麼但是我想制度的問題的話我們還是要以制度的方式來處理那順便回答一下那個剛剛那個羅委員就說我們現在有切爾沒有錯他切爾的話"},{"start":23567.391,"end":23575.42,"text":"一般來講的話沒有一個主管願意有缺而不補然後讓人力不足但是他有一些情況會產生就譬如說"},{"start":23577.009,"end":23596.762,"text":"世青然後那個什麼義英他該請的價他就是要請那另外的話就是我們有一些高階的研究員的話那個切的話基本上來講的話他要等著補所以我也不可能說一下子把那個切都補掉那另外有一個比較特殊的大家不清楚就是說"},{"start":23598.123,"end":23615.712,"text":"我們一副院長他是研究員那我們的處長也是研究員可是他們研究員由他當副院長不能把那個研究員的簽拿掉因為拿掉的話他就沒有本職了可是他們研究員就帶著就是說我們"},{"start":23617.006,"end":23638.079,"text":"副院長是研究員 可是他是副院長書文處處長的話是研究員 可是他是處長所以變成就是說當然很多人會覺得說那你這樣的話不是一個人兼兩個缺嗎事實上這是一個制度設計上的就是說你要用雙軌的話它就會存在那樣的問題所以這個部分"},{"start":23641.551,"end":23664.916,"text":"這個部分的話當然就是我們可以再去了解整個一個作業的情況到底是什麼樣可以讓他更好可是如果真的有切可以補的話我都願意趕快把它補起來報告召委那如果照順序的話因為我們還有第17、19、21跟第11案我們就依序請我們出示回答OK那就現在是第17案請暫補"},{"start":23670.897,"end":23685.951,"text":"針對那個17案委員提到那個勞務承攬人力的部分我首先要說明其實我們勞務承攬人力政管的部分在疫情前疫情發生的時候其實"},{"start":23687.312,"end":23715.931,"text":"勞務承攬人力被刪掉很多那現在疫情結束以後其實政管的勞務承攬人力目前在運作的時候人力是不夠的所以我們剛好115年那時候針對第二展覽館要開然後有編了第二展覽館的人力所以部分現在我們第二展覽館人力有一部分會移給政管因為補足那個不足的人力因為我們"},{"start":23716.992,"end":23741.038,"text":"政管的人力配置我稍微說明一下其實我們所有的人力配置會依照展館的營運需求服務動線的配置安全維護和民眾服務量能那因為其實這些提案很多都是只有講到服務量能就是用參觀人數的增加來講那其實是很多面向"},{"start":23741.698,"end":23759.246,"text":"然後我們如果要維持政管的營運不中斷然後維持高品質這個人力是一定要的所以是不是這個雖然我們有增編了一部分的人力那我們實際上也有補了一部分政管不足的人力那以上說明"},{"start":23760.787,"end":23781.024,"text":"我跟委員補充一個比較簡單的邏輯就是說在疫情的時候故宮的展場人力是被刪減的但是疫情恢復之後的話理論上是應該補足原來的人力可是事實上的話那個人力的補足的話就沒有辦法那麼快速"},{"start":23781.784,"end":23795.998,"text":"那有一個情況讓我們現在比較辛苦的就是說因為現在我們跟那個觀光署合作只要有郵輪靠岸因為我們現在本來是休禮拜一但是只要有郵輪靠岸的話我們那天就開館"},{"start":23797.159,"end":23816.546,"text":"那因為這樣開館的話變成就是說那天本來休館的又變開館所以那個人力不足人力不足的話就是說連加班並不是說給他加班費就可以了因為現在勞基法的規定就是排班也很困難所以我們希望說有更多的人力那當然這個部分的話是"},{"start":23818.827,"end":23838.276,"text":"是希望說委員這邊的話可以支持我們就是讓展場的人力他們在排班然後他們在休假的時候可以比較正常一點好我們請葉宇對不起你們還要再回覆嗎因為有委員剛好舉手想要補案件"},{"start":23841.994,"end":23860.212,"text":"好我們對不起那我們先請委員發言發言完以後再請我們的故宮一併納入委員的建議回覆那也稍微提醒一下因為我剛好像沒有聽到十一案回我因為您剛回我是八案對對等我一下再提醒一下好那我們請葉元智委員發言"},{"start":23861.77,"end":23887.185,"text":"我這邊 我自十三案其實也是在講那個展場人力啦那剛剛故宮有說明說展場人力增加最主要是因為恢復到疫情前的水準不過我覺得因為很多委員想要知道是不是那麼抽象的因為你們有回覆嘛就是說是依據場館的營運需求或服務的動線配置安全維護啊或者是民眾服務量能所以需要增加人力"},{"start":23887.805,"end":23913.566,"text":"那是不是我我這樣可以改組決議啦但是希望故宮能夠提出比較具體的報告好不好就是說到底這個能力是什麼配置然後之前為什麼比較少人可以可以做這樣的事情但是現在卻需要這麼多人才需要做這樣的事情那這個預算增加到底是為什麼可不可以給一個比較清楚的說明不是只有項目清楚的說明能力配置那我這樣就改組決議謝謝"},{"start":23917.226,"end":23926.272,"text":"好 謝謝葉委員的發言也請我們的相關部會回應一下那葉委員那一個案子我們登記改組決議但是還是要回覆喔"},{"start":23932.437,"end":23947.83,"text":"就是這個一般行政的費用這個部分跟委員報告因為南北院北院是20公頃的管理面積然後南院是70公頃但南北家產就是90公頃那其實我們在一般行政裡面包括這些清點維護"},{"start":23948.911,"end":23969.666,"text":"植栽养护还有病媒纹还有防汛抢险这些那除了以外这个委员在因为北院的设备老旧大概都很多大型设备像空调组及热棒这些大概都是10年以上其实的维护的成本其实是蛮高的包括那些零件的汰换还有平常的维护管理"},{"start":23970.126,"end":23987.695,"text":"那另外還有南越 南越有一個就是我們因為要距離的關係我們有所謂的園區接駁的這個Bus的服務就接駁的服務 其實這個部分也在我們在一般行政的費用裡面所以為了維持我們比較這個良好的一個參訪環境的話那還因為有國際化這個"},{"start":23992.281,"end":24021.4,"text":"要求我們在展場的這塊的要求都相對的高那另外剛才講在我們現場的一個管理的方式因為從一級主管然後從基層的同仁就是管理的同仁到各級的主管甚至民眾的民意信箱這邊其實常常會督促我們要好好的來把這個好好的作業那所以這個一般行政在這個設施維護跟我們一些相關的一個例行的這個"},{"start":24022.321,"end":24048.571,"text":"而支應的部分那請可能就請委員讓我們有比較大的這個預算來支持以上OK我了解委員的意思了就是說因為委員的意思說這些零零種種的東西非常雜可是可是基本上來講的話他沒有一個明確的指標那沒有一個明確的指標的話"},{"start":24049.827,"end":24067.568,"text":"到底這個經費的指向他應該怎麼樣去評估他是不是有達到效益不是東補一塊西補一塊我想應該是這個樣子所以這個部分的確就是南北縣區跟別的博物館不一樣"},{"start":24067.968,"end":24084.148,"text":"因為我們都有包括原區然後南院有接駁車的服務接駁車又分為那個高鐵的接駁跟我們自己的接駁就是原區的接駁外面的接駁真的是有點點亂可是其實這也是故宮"},{"start":24085.489,"end":24114.131,"text":"博物院就尤其是南院他們希望說在每一塊去做一個更好的縫補所以這個部分的話當然就是沒有錯就是我們要思考一下怎麼樣讓這些工作的項目可以更具體的去規劃然後就是說有一個明確的指標要不然的話這樣的經費的話看起來的話就是非常零碎然後不夠明確到底目標是做什麼這樣子"},{"start":24116.257,"end":24144.057,"text":"我們前陣子是不是南院有成吉思汗的展覽成吉思汗是那個是忽必烈那成吉思汗的話是接下來對南院是北院是接下來的那一檔好我還是希望就是說錢是一定會尊重讓你們用啦但是就是要有指標嘛"},{"start":24146.38,"end":24175.727,"text":"民眾的一些服務品質的認同尋檢的記錄接駁當然重要那接駁的人數可以分享一下嗎這些東西都應該要做成相對應的指標讓委員們知道也讓你們留存你們花的錢是真正花在刀口實際服務人民嗎我上次有去看過故宮南院坦白講蠻期待那個水舞的"},{"start":24182.325,"end":24196.189,"text":"我之前就有看過水舞他就是會突然會有一段時間整點會展出嘛看了是覺得有點小尷尬所以就是說希望說這個服務品質可能也要多民調"},{"start":24198.843,"end":24224.904,"text":"所以沒關係待會我們一起討論並動但我的實際案是要告訴你們我知道你們有這麼多的需求因為這些雜項看起來沒有一樣可以刪除因為這都需要不管是接駁並沒文房子但我只是要提醒你們你們有沒有指標告訴我們你們錢真的花的是有對應到這個服務品質有提升好民眾覺得你這個狀況沒有問題這個要提醒你們好"},{"start":24229.346,"end":24239.554,"text":"以上委員都經已發言是喔 對不起 對不起抱歉抱歉好 請回應陳秀寶委員"},{"start":24254.143,"end":24258.888,"text":"北院的部分剛才也談到說我們其實在管理上其實剛才講說每日有每週、每月"},{"start":24273.044,"end":24289.414,"text":"每年然後這個部分其實就會有不同頻率的一個巡檢然後還有做紀錄那大概都是資本到目前為止大概都是資本紀錄因為這個部分就是他們所有的部分查核還有不定期的一個那我們有專人同仁在處理這一塊"},{"start":24290.575,"end":24311.829,"text":"你們在這個做定期啦不管是你們週期是從週啊月啊還是說一季啊還是一年啊這樣做可能有時候是做比較大項的就是比較你們看重在這文物的保存上那一些比較細微的角落如果說已經有這樣有螞蟻的出現這樣的問題就是站在小地方表示說你們注意的不夠周全"},{"start":24312.469,"end":24325.698,"text":"所以我會希望說除了你們本來排定的這個週期性的區域性的這樣固定的這些相關的整理的相關的流程之外應該再加進去比較細項的比較仔細的這個"},{"start":24328.88,"end":24355.076,"text":"空間的維護好嗎因為蠻蟻這樣的生物其實它在很小的角落它就可以活動那也可能會造成一些我們看不到的很細微的但是會有一些是對文物是有影響的所以這個部分我希望你們再加強那這樣好不好我其實我本來沒有要動靜我覺得我不堅持動靜我可以改組決議但是我覺得你們的回答有點我希望你給我一份你們關於這個部分的報告好嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":24357.148,"end":24377.125,"text":"好跟委員報告就是那個螞蟻的事情的話的確就造成故宮故宮講的再多的話一隻螞蟻我們就破功了就是故宮基本上來講的話每天的開館的時候都有行檢然後閉館的話也有閉館的行檢所以會出現螞蟻這個事情的話"},{"start":24378.906,"end":24401.261,"text":"基本上來講我們也檢討了 甚至我們把天花板什麼都放開來它是從我們的建築的細縫 因為故宮的話基本上就算本館的話 它也經過五次的建築所以建築跟建築中間是有縫的 它從那個細縫裡面跑進來不是從門口這樣大大方方進來的"},{"start":24402.362,"end":24418.735,"text":"所以我們也做了防治然後現在的包括文物上面的話我們也都檢點基本上都沒有問題所以現在在靜置我們還在用幼蟲燈再看看有沒有其他的發現所以我們盡快會讓它恢復正常"},{"start":24419.534,"end":24434.024,"text":"主席我再講一下其實我今天就主要是要提醒你們就是說你之前沒有發現有螞蟻所以我們也本來的尋檢可能是都足夠的那現在有發現了之後就表示是不是有哪裡我們沒有注意到的時候提醒你們要去注意它好 謝謝"},{"start":24436.653,"end":24458.122,"text":"我們找了那個螞蟻博士帶了一個團隊然後跟故宮的原來的我們的登堡處的處長他是一個動物學家就是說我們有進做一個整體的一個防治好謝謝還有沒有委員沒有回覆的"},{"start":24460.435,"end":24489.434,"text":"好那委員均已發言完畢那我個人也是覺得第11案好像沒有給我很明確的回覆我還是希望說是不是故宮能夠演你相關的一些指標表格開甚至是公民眾能夠有這個機會我們假設老舉個例子就上個廁所然後出來出來會有電子螢幕按那個滿不滿意之類的那個都是收集民意的個需求我覺得是還是"},{"start":24491.216,"end":24513.772,"text":"我們的初衷是希望讓服務品質提升南苑的展覽很棒但是內部的服務項目實際每一筆錢我們還是要稍微注意一下所以跟大家一起並案討論是否並動第一幕一般行政提案案號第8案至21案審查結果改為主決議的有8"},{"start":24527.129,"end":24543.701,"text":"10 12 13 14 15 18 19 21另外想要跟委員們請大家發言本幕合併凍結有沒有人有提議各位委員請發言"},{"start":24545.523,"end":24572.109,"text":"因為啊謝謝主席因為我的案子都改組決議了我剛剛聽起來好像很多委員都改組決議那如果這樣沒有堅持要動的是不是一樣照列嗎因為我剛剛沒有聽到有委員堅持要動還是已經委員要動有20萬喔我是11啊可是11沒有因為我剛剛問問題就只有回答我這個錢很重要我知道很重要但怎麼用到刀口啊照列"},{"start":24578.283,"end":24606.783,"text":"趙烈 易經委員同意趙烈我也主張趙烈不好意思所以我的部分再跟我們補充說明事實上我們的那個展場裡面都有觀眾意見調查表所以我們觀眾意見調查表的話觀眾反映的意見的話我們都有提到服務品質提升會議上面去討論"},{"start":24608.044,"end":24633.372,"text":"所以每個月的那個業務會議的時候業務會議不是行政的業務會議啦故宮的業務會議我們也都會列管或去檢視所以這個部分我們都有做那至於那個接駁車的人次啊什麼這個部分我要請南院就是說能不能有一個未來有一個統計因為可能過去的話沒有但是未來能不能有一個統計就是讓我們的服務的工作更明確有統計嗎"},{"start":24636.363,"end":24665.444,"text":"好 那相關的資料是不是能夠提供給我一下可以嗎可以好主席 那我20案可以改組決議好 20改組決議好 宣告20改組決議好 11的部分改組決議那但是你們要記得後續的資料請提供給我知道一下好 預算照列接著處理第二幕文物研究與展覽提案案號22案至第30案"},{"start":24666.57,"end":24671.139,"text":"我們請委員舉手謝謝 我們來登記一下好 謝謝 請放下葉仁芝委員請發言"},{"start":24678.019,"end":24701.818,"text":"我是第22案最主要這一幕它是針對一些展覽的品質推廣文化推動文化推廣的一些經費雖然說故宮做滿意度調查其實蠻高可是實際上裡面有一些指標大家滿意度是比較低譬如說是有關於展場的設計跟動線的規劃例如說"},{"start":24706.121,"end":24725.121,"text":"這個東線的流暢度滿意度算是比較偏低還有有些人對於展覽的一些版圖的文字的大小或者是多媒體的互動的設施滿意度比較是屬於低的項目那故宮後來是有回復就是說他們還是根據一定的標準去設計那些展覽然後舉了一個例子就是說113年"},{"start":24727.099,"end":24745.87,"text":"有一個什麼公主駕道清代文獻中的公主身影為例就是說這個特別採大字集成線立觀看然後呢那同時考量到很多國小的兒童的身高所以設置一些兒童閱讀的一些翻版文案等等就是用這個案例為舉例但問題是"},{"start":24747.148,"end":24770.08,"text":"你所有的展裡面你做的調查一定是有高有低嘛所以我會希望說故宮你要去針對比較偏低的那幾個展比如說哪幾個展它的動線設計可能滿意度比較低或者是哪幾個展它的字體大小滿意度比較低然後去針對那些比較低的去找出問題出來就是到底是為什麼這些展"},{"start":24770.74,"end":24796.777,"text":"大家會認為動線不夠流暢然後再提出改進之道而不是說我們這個提的案之後呢隨便舉一個例子來告訴我說那個展辦得很棒那如果每一個展都跟這個展一樣辦得那麼棒的話就滿意度就不會低了啊所以我希望說故宮可以找出前三名好不好就是前三個比如說動線這方面滿意度比較低的做一個說明就是說為什麼它到底發生什麼狀況才會有這個滿意度的問題好不好 以上謝謝"},{"start":24803.181,"end":24828.274,"text":"好 吳思耀委員請發言好 我有四個案快速的說明24案是希望故宮的策展我們既然組成了國際策展的這些諮詢委員會就讓策展的內容可以更符合當代的社會的多元的議題因為故宮畢竟是有相當高的公共影響力所以"},{"start":24829.134,"end":24852.055,"text":"我看你们之前策展那个女生的那个她对不对她用一些这个我们的典藏能够去符合新时代性别平权的观念类似这样就是一个很好的展览的思维所以我的第24案我想就多符合新的博物馆的策展的方式这个给你们一个起点"},{"start":24852.535,"end":24870.565,"text":"我可以改組決議25是要肯定故宮這個線上展覽善用我們的數位典藏這個Google Arts and Culture在台灣其實故宮就是龍頭那我一直在文化部門希望其他的文化管社都可以加入這個線上展覽"},{"start":24873.046,"end":24899.775,"text":"還有這個國際的平台那故宮可以更積極的發揮領頭羊的角色分享這些相關的正面的效益因為台灣現在只有五個博物館有加入全球是兩千間博物館加入這個計劃那你們也是可以正向的大手帶小手這個我可以改組決議但第26案希望得到你們的回應就是說故宮也有各類的徵稿"},{"start":24901.576,"end":24918.065,"text":"因为我们的出版物故宫文物月刊是需要有专业的征稿但我发现我们的征稿的稿费因为我们设了一个每个文章的费用不超过5000元为原则这样换算下来其实有点太"},{"start":24919.403,"end":24944.558,"text":"把這些專業者的這個文字的產出非常的相對的低廉所以我希望在這個稿費的能夠符合在主計處給的要點之下故宮應當更有彈性我們看看歷史博物館它就沒有設一個天花板的這個限制所以這個東西我覺得應當是可以做到因為這個一個稿一個字1.1元到1.6元"},{"start":24949.161,"end":24965.251,"text":"然後你現在統合的就是你懂我意思嗎 等一下你們回應一下好嗎我們尊重這個專業的文化工作者的這個智慧的產出這一案是唯一邀請你們特別說明二期案我也可以改組決議我督促你們針對一讀一讀本在不同的展覽都希望能夠做到一讀手冊而不是只限定"},{"start":24973.376,"end":24995.054,"text":"一部分的展覽我們要重視這些其他不同族群它多元的需求所以希望在一讀手冊你們可以加強的製作跟推廣這是文化平權的一部分好 謝謝我二期也可以改組決議那就是26案請你們說明一下好 林局委員請發言"},{"start":24996.445,"end":25022.123,"text":"好 謝謝主席我是兩岸 二八跟二九那二八的話是針對故宮反映的人力不足問題我做出這個提案那面對這個人力不足長遠的解決之道當然就是跟人種進行爭取那可是當然故宮爭取的結果那暫時還是沒有辦法來滿足現在相關的人力需求"},{"start":25023.084,"end":25049.289,"text":"那當外部的資源供應沒有到位的時候當然相當考驗故宮內部資源的調控那這就是本席提出這個案子的重點既然像人種爭取未果那故宮當然也不能待在原地然後等到人種點頭那一天所以你持續爭取人力當然必要可是立即檢討現行人力的配置怎麼樣去做"},{"start":25050.109,"end":25076.23,"text":"好的調度同等重要我們很清楚知道故宮內部工作量最吃重的部門可能分別是器物處、書畫文獻處以及南院處這些部門又要有研究產出又要進行文物管理、庫房管理、策展規劃不是屬於這三處的同仁"},{"start":25077.441,"end":25104.919,"text":"他同樣也要一規定需要定期來繳交研究成果這些人員就是包含其他故宮准用教育人員任用條例任用的這個專業人士好 那這些專業人士目前當然各有業務可是現行的研究量能也好研究品質甚至是研究意願其實我覺得啦非常值得我們進一步來監管我們以這個紅置款 嬌小綠彩雙榮小碗為例"},{"start":25107.381,"end":25107.528,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":25108.035,"end":25136.454,"text":"同一款的共兩包18件但是製作年代卻有不同的標示有的標明帶 有的標清帶那你從小虧大嘛如果連基本的這種文物啊這個注入都會有偏誤那是否反映出故宮典藏還有很多大批的文物它停留在北宮時期那種粗略的那個管理狀態所以故宮的研究量恐怕還有很大的進步空間"},{"start":25137.555,"end":25152.658,"text":"提出這個案子其實一方面是要請故宮來盤點近十年近十年來不是屬於我剛剛說的那三處器物處、書畫文獻處跟男院處的所謂的專業人士的研究成果"},{"start":25153.699,"end":25174.06,"text":"那另一方面就是要重新評估文物管理啊 庫房管理啊展示設計跟導覽等等這些工作是否可能從這種工作相對吃重這三處的業務中挪一些出來讓同樣有這個研究專業的同仁來共同分擔以上那第二十九案"},{"start":25176.874,"end":25187.926,"text":"因為歷年來其實委員都有提案要求故宮增加門票或者是商品的這個銷售收入那事實上當然這件事情就是說"},{"start":25189.726,"end":25208.175,"text":"關鍵在於故宮如何突破同溫層擦亮新招牌讓更多人願意回訪我覺得這還是關鍵因為故宮大部分的遊客是來自海外這些是所謂的跨文化圈不熟悉文物脈絡的觀展者"},{"start":25210.336,"end":25238.495,"text":"那另一方面就算是台灣遊客他可能也是非文物專業的專業者居多所以在這些情況之下其實相當考驗故宮在文物專業知識以外的發揮本席知道說其實故宮在空間配置上一直很努力朝向一座現代化的博物館來改革那北院現在第二展覽館就是一次全面升級的很成功的案例可是面對這個"},{"start":25240.556,"end":25263.426,"text":"面對這個政管名品陳列邏輯下的這種環境限制本席很想聽聽看就是展示設計相關同仁有什麼樣的建議舉例來說你如何在固定的玻璃展櫃或者昏暗的燈光天花板的高度展區的動線這種框架之下怎麼尋求突破"},{"start":25264.366,"end":25280.353,"text":"那展中說明的文字怎麼樣淺顯易懂合於國際級的這種博物館的這種相關的指引以上我幾個問題也要請故宮提交那個書面報告那等一下也做一些口頭說明以上好我自己是23岸那對於整個715的展覽"},{"start":25293.213,"end":25316.295,"text":"相关的一些维护我们都很关切那刚刚有其他委员也提到这个部分是不是应该有所检讨我对于130年度北院观众对于展览展厅所有的参观动线的流畅性满意度是近三年最低还有南院的展览文物的摆放高度"},{"start":25317.176,"end":25329.109,"text":"展廳的動線規劃滿意度就我們所拿到的資料是逐年下降顯示展覽不是只有重視器物的建樹亮點"},{"start":25331.306,"end":25348.201,"text":"實際民眾可以理解可以觀看可以停留可以移動的基本體驗這也考驗著我們現在主管機關應該要好好的重視展覽的說明文字大小內容的深淺展櫃的高度"},{"start":25349.526,"end":25377.043,"text":"參觀的動線互動設施的易用性跟多餘資訊的可敬性這其實我在諮詢的時候也有跟院長探討過也希望這個部分應該要好好想想來做一個檢討來回應民眾的一個需求以上是我的23案待會跟大家一起討論一下好那是不是請我們的故宮"},{"start":25378.311,"end":25383.361,"text":"主管機關請依序回應我們委員所提的提案謝謝"},{"start":25387.083,"end":25412.79,"text":"對看你要依你的提案的次那個數字來回應還是你要依委員都沒關係講清楚說明白就好了好不好我針對那個22案那其實跟29案是是差不多的內容是一致的那針對這個部分其實委員點出來其實是我們故宮展覽的部分非常重要的其實我們在推出一個"},{"start":25414.01,"end":25419.414,"text":"展览主题的时候策展的初期策展人他其实就会"},{"start":25444.37,"end":25457.755,"text":"展示文物的類型還有觀眾群的不同來搭配相關的設計規劃然後要強化它的展示設計空間的規劃照明教育推廣甚至數位互動"},{"start":25458.975,"end":25475.646,"text":"還有使用者研究等專業合作這個都會加進來然後當然首要的我們要依我們典藏和展示的規劃都是用我們文物保存維護的安全為最優先的原則就是要依我們本院典藏文物管理作業要點的規定來辦理"},{"start":25478.683,"end":25499.332,"text":"然後剛剛委員也有提到其實我們在展覽期間我們隨時觀眾會提出一些改善的建議我們都有召開相關的會議來檢討甚至改善所以這一個部分大家可以放心然後最後一個部分就是我們還會針對這個展覽還會做一個檢討會議所以其實是非常完整的"},{"start":25505.735,"end":25530.434,"text":"那剛剛委員有提到我們有一些推出的一些細節比如說剛剛有提到什麼113年這個公主駕到用大字的呈現甚至我們有一些做漫畫版然後親近觀眾的了解然後甚至我們在南部院區的漢默空間它是展廳的展建說明用電子紙"},{"start":25531.235,"end":25546.974,"text":"然后甚至书画的展柜是跟画作跟观众的距离缩短到20公分然后也有设QR Code的连结然后目前镇馆二楼书画展厅也有做LED的灯具针对灯具的改善"},{"start":25548.055,"end":25568.676,"text":"然後鎮館二樓陶瓷和銅器三樓的長色廳也增設了補光燈所以有一些文物的下方的一些細節看得非常清楚所以總之我們的所有展覽都是以觀眾為導向來做設計所以這個部分是我們故宮非常重視的部分以上說明"},{"start":25573.117,"end":25594.266,"text":"好 葉連智委員請發言主管機關還沒回覆完喔好 他是回覆你 那你要補充 好 可以就是 那個這位是處長是不是就是你沒有回覆我的問題我的問題就是說 你們有講說公主駕到很棒很棒很棒"},{"start":25595.236,"end":25624.104,"text":"但是那個滿意度它是一個平均所以公主駕到很高那一定有人很差所以你舉了一個可能很棒的來說明說你們很棒這很怪因為應該要針對就是大家滿意度比較低的幾個展覽然後特別是體驗部分像動線不夠流暢或者是字體大小比較不適中的那一些挑出來做一個檢討而不是說我拿一個很棒的來跟你說我很棒"},{"start":25625.004,"end":25648.27,"text":"這沒有回答到我的問題OK 好 謝謝好 那委員講的部分我們會補充說明就是事後書面說明好來 我跟委員報告就是那個第22案葉委員然後那個第23案那個樓委員跟29案林立錦委員的確都提到就是故宮的"},{"start":25650.37,"end":25677.585,"text":"展示空間裡面的規劃基本上來講不能盡如人意不能盡如人意的話的確我這樣講就是說故宮懶人宴基本上來講的話它是網蓋的一個展館所以空間比較寬敞在動線上面的話比較流暢可是在北宴裡面的話就是說有一些空間的確它是因為它的空間的櫃位跟它的柱子的關係所以它"},{"start":25678.405,"end":25689.487,"text":"故宮的北院的話基本上來講的話都是固定櫃固定櫃的話它的動線上面的確是有一些死角那另外的話就是在策展的時候"},{"start":25690.612,"end":25716.28,"text":"通常除了固定櫃之外的話某些策展策展人希望說有更多的資源可以納入這樣擺了就更多的展件比如說我們在去年百年宴慶甲子萬年我們希望說有更多的展件進去所以就會有一些臨時櫃那臨時櫃的話又是有一些重要的國寶展出那當然就是會卡在那邊所以這個問題的話的確是有"},{"start":25719.422,"end":25723.055,"text":"所以未來的話當然就是說在北岸證款整修之後的話整個"},{"start":25724.837,"end":25750.239,"text":"櫃子的話我們都會重新製作然後包括它的動線我們會重新考量那這個是未來但是目前來講的話就是固定櫃基本上來講的話有一些真的是很難處理因為它牽涉到那個樑柱的位置可是又是固定櫃已經做了所以那些東西的話除非把那個櫃子打掉那要不然的話有一些動線的確是卡卡的"},{"start":25750.959,"end":25778.272,"text":"那同樣的情況也會發生在那個展櫃的高度因為它是固定櫃固定櫃的話它的高度是這個樣子我們盡量用虎記去處理它那這個部分的話當然就是說改善的還是沒有辦法很理想燈光的部分的話過去用那個sport light就是那個投射燈然後它會有一個激光的效果然後其他的那個反而都不亮"},{"start":25779.093,"end":25788.975,"text":"現在我們慢慢去調整LED的燈光然後用微打光的方式用更多的燈光然後去營造那個更好的效果"},{"start":25789.997,"end":25809.963,"text":"那顏色性也比較佳另外的話就是我們把那個展櫃原來差不多90公分推到現在已經是30公分到60公分所以很多過去看起來比較混亂比較不容易看到的物件基本上來講的話因為拉近觀眾的距離基本上來講這個有蠻好的一個效果"},{"start":25810.623,"end":25824.869,"text":"那的確就是民眾的反應還是這些問題都會一直重複出現要不然的話不會有三個委員同時提案所以這個部分的話未來我們會努力來改進那至於藍燕的話反而出現另外一個問題"},{"start":25825.609,"end":25848.644,"text":"南苑出現另外一個問題的話就是南苑因為是新的它的展櫃比較低可是上次譬如說像做服飾會的展覽的時候就是因為它的展櫃比較低那服飾會又是平面的所以所有人都彎著腰看展覽所以他們就會覺得說那為什麼不把它掛起來但是因為它在展櫃裡面所以這些問題的話其實故宮"},{"start":25851.406,"end":25866.253,"text":"我們自己知道我們也會在後面的展覽裡面想辦法去改進譬如說我們後面的展覽的話我們就會把鞋板支撐高一點或是其他的方式來改進"},{"start":25867.97,"end":25886.653,"text":"所以如果要個案每一個去提的話其實每一個個案的話我們在結束的時候我們都會有一個檢討會議就總結報告了所以這些問題的話基本上來講的話故宮還是很重視那觀眾的要求是越來越高所以這個部分的話我們會繼續努力"},{"start":25889.358,"end":25914.181,"text":"那26萬你稿費要不要提升 你就快點回答我就是yes or no這樣子來不好意思我先宣告一下因為已經有兩次委員提案然後都沒有就直接的回答然後或者是回答語意錯誤還是要提醒故宮是不是非常精準的了解委員的提案然後並且淺顯易懂的回答委員的需求"},{"start":25914.821,"end":25929.962,"text":"好 那也麻煩後續這個故宮在應答的時候可能要特別注意因為時間的部分我們也不希望說因為這樣子而拖延請回答 謝謝好 回答第26案的部分就是故宮五月刊這目前的稿費是依照主席總署所頒訂"},{"start":25931.224,"end":25945.949,"text":"助詞及稿費這個要點每簽紙是一千一百元至於裡面有個五千塊呢是依照這個稿約第三點所載的這是因為作者他投稿的時候有引用到我們非本院的圖表或圖片然後這個是資給額外資給這個"},{"start":25948.63,"end":25972.402,"text":"作者的這個一個費用所以它是跟稿費沒有關係那希望能夠讓這個五千塊能夠幫助這個學術的出版的品質還有合法取得授權的這個補助的體制以上說明所以是確定沒有上限吧沒有沒有沒有上限好那就好那就搞清楚解釋清楚好謝謝那我二六改組決議謝謝"},{"start":25979.724,"end":25997.054,"text":"好請說我針對二十八案就是林益菁委員的這一個我們三處人力是不是非常的吃緊的這個部分來做說明那先跟委員說明一下就是我們所有的業務單位都有配置這個所謂的專業人員一百多位的都有在這個業務單位裡面不是就這三個處"},{"start":25997.995,"end":26014.57,"text":"那第二個部分就是我們這個業務同仁這三個處的這個專業人力的部分他其實總數其實佔我們全部的人數一半以上所以確實有著眼到他們的業務次數是比較特殊然後需要這個藉助這個專業人員來推動"},{"start":26016.371,"end":26036.937,"text":"但是他們是不是比較吃緊的這樣子這個現象我只能先跟委員報告是說我們每年都有去做我們這個加班就是高工作工時的這樣子一個比例的一個統計其實這三個處除了南院處之外他們其實並沒有到達就是我們有恆常性高工作高工時反而是我們的展覽單位是我們的展覽導覽的這個單位他們其實是比較有普遍的高工時的情形"},{"start":26041.858,"end":26066.1,"text":"這第一個部分第二個部分是針對我們專業人員研究的這個成果部分按照我們院裡面的規定我們專業人員每年度他在考的時候有一個非常重要的指標就是他學術研究這個相關著作的對發表那如果你當年一篇都沒有的話那你是只能夠拿到一等以下的等地那如果兩年一等的話其實院裡面按照我們的這個公法契約是可以不續聘的"},{"start":26066.801,"end":26082.745,"text":"所以不是只有針對這三處有學術研究報告的要求就是所有的這個專業人員都有這樣子的要求那我們是會後也會整理我們這個所謂這個三處以外其他研究人員他們歷年的這個學術表現來給委員這邊做報告說明 以上好 請問所以委員要改組決議嗎還是他有回答到你嗎"},{"start":26092.161,"end":26121.17,"text":"我順便跟我們說明一個問題因為這個檔案不是我的專業但是至於那個紅字款交房綠彩雙龍小碗有講說是明代包括吳院長都講吳院長講說那個是清代可是明明是明代的紅字款那實際上是托款製作就是說清朝的時候做的可是他放明朝的款"},{"start":26123.159,"end":26146.357,"text":"所以你看那個款印的話是明朝可是實際上是清朝做的當然就是說有時候在文字係數上的時候沒有把整個文字落寫滿了所以就會覺得說到底是什麼時候所以這個研究上面的話當然每個人有每個人不同的觀點那過去的話故宮從宮裡面的登錄然後一直到那個"},{"start":26147.798,"end":26170.057,"text":"北溝然後到這邊的話就是有一些研究越來越清晰可是故宮他有一個傳統他就會保留原來的院裡面的就是宮裡面的登錄的那個名字他會保留研究的話是另外細數所以才會出現說怎麼會有兩個名字就是說因為"},{"start":26170.897,"end":26198.759,"text":"是一個尊重溯源的概念所以最原始的名稱的話其實並沒有把它拿掉所以在我們的資料上面的話會有出現就是說舊的資料跟新的資料哪怕是那個像那個文化資產的那個那個定義裡面的話就是有一些文化資產的名稱也會因為文化資產局他們去重新認定會有不同的名稱所以事實的名稱會有不一樣還是希望就是展覽的時候寫清楚啦好不好"},{"start":26202.188,"end":26206.531,"text":"第二幕文物研究與展覽提案22到30審查結果22 24 25 26 2730改為主決議"},{"start":26232.495,"end":26256.732,"text":"除了這樣子以外本幕的部分合併凍結有沒有委員有意見因為我的案子報告主席我都改組決議我不曉得其他委員有要凍結的部分是多少這邊我是都改組決議了這一幕有要合併凍結嗎有委員有堅持嗎我聽到的是都改組決議不是嗎"},{"start":26260.134,"end":26278.069,"text":"沒有因為林益勤委員還沒有改主決意那我就2829都改主決意好2829改主決意那我的部分是23那因為我原本凍結數是100萬但是我希望說給予故宮還是要真的要積極我剛剛所提到的不是說你們表現不好但實際上"},{"start":26279.21,"end":26301.28,"text":"展廳參觀動線的流暢性滿意度是三年最低那對於這個南苑的展覽文物擺放的高低展覽的動線規劃滿意度是成逐年下降當然剛剛有院長有提到那個顧客的這個標準越來越高那我們還是希望說能夠持續達到"},{"start":26302.847,"end":26329.4,"text":"觀光人數他們的需求跟回應那我之前也在質詢的時候不斷的一直強調這個高低可觀性然後展覽的文字內容都是很重要的一環所以我凍結一百萬那我也希望說改五十萬就好也希望你們後面要提書面報告值得動之院長可以嗎"},{"start":26331.069,"end":26339.916,"text":"好 謝謝那本幕合併凍結50萬並針對各凍結的提案之要求依審查會的決議提出書面報告時的凍資接著我們處理第三幕綜合規劃與推廣行銷提案案號31至65案我們請委員舉手讓我們登記一下"},{"start":26356.77,"end":26359.974,"text":"好 謝謝那我們就從前面從林警委員開始"},{"start":26363.351,"end":26385.883,"text":"我先補充謝謝議員讓我先講4414244我的提案故宮都有來辦公室說明那我都願意改組決議好議員請登記起來謝謝再來請林議員好謝謝我是52案那52案我要提的是說故宮北院它其實已經有超過一甲子的歲月"},{"start":26386.943,"end":26407.221,"text":"那60年過去其實台灣社會其實從威權走向民主那故宮也從法統的工具性質轉成全民的博物館所以我覺得在思維跟觀念上大家都在進步故宮也不能例外那可是老舊這個建物跟過時的入館動線"},{"start":26408.442,"end":26433.721,"text":"拖累了故宮進一步朝向一座現代博物館的腳步怎麼說呢?至今為止故宮不但欠缺統一的中央入口參觀的動線也如同好像進進皇帝寶物班就要求民眾一路爬樓梯然後尚未見到文物就滿身汗而且你身為一座國際級的博物館"},{"start":26434.522,"end":26456.903,"text":"那入館的動線居然60年來都沒有真正的無障礙設計喔其實也是不可思議那號稱無障礙的林蔭步道與鎮館的入口並不相接所以最後民眾其實還是依舊得爬樓梯或請人移開花圃穿越車道才能進入鎮館"},{"start":26458.644,"end":26478.248,"text":"那以上還是搭乘大眾交通工具去參訪故宮的民眾喔那你如果是自行開車跟騎摩托車的你會發現入口動線導引不清楚那車道又很狹小而且汽機車爭道那另外故宮京華側停車場那邊環境很雜亂那也沒有整齊劃設這個機車停車格"},{"start":26484.249,"end":26506.936,"text":"很明顯很明顯其實都有很大的改善的空間那我知道現在我們故宮努力在辦北部院區的這個整擴建計畫所以我也不堅持要動多少可是我真的希望說你未來在入館的動線設計上你一定要把民眾的多元需求納入考量不然感受到好像故宮就只想經營團進團出的那個國際旅客而已"},{"start":26511.377,"end":26527.691,"text":"那其他人要怎麼想進故宮就自己想辦法好像是這副態度啦所以我覺得這個我提的這個意見就是入管動線的設計怎麼樣納入民眾多元需求這個一定要來處理以上"},{"start":26532.197,"end":26549.809,"text":"好陳秀寶委員謝主席我先幫那個疫情委員講一下他的第37案、第55案及第60案他要改組決議那我的部分呢我是第43案、第50案以及第63案第43案的部分是希望說就是還是剛才我們最早就是在審"},{"start":26551.41,"end":26574.976,"text":"碎錄的時候說我們是不是要提高我們要實質的增列主要是希望激勵我們故宮有個目標去增加我們來源參觀的人數那這邊我是要建議說我們故宮可以思考跟遊戲還是相關的這些城市公司合作例如像我們很多人在玩的寶可夢或是千恒航的皮克敏我們參考之前皮克敏在嘉義舉辦的實體以及現在這個活動的方式"},{"start":26577.837,"end":26597.934,"text":"更多的国人及游客可以进入故宫来游览提高入馆的人数故宫你们有来说明所以这个案子我可以改组决议但是如果说针对我们相关的这样的活动我们来规划如果像是儿少的活动虽然我们脸书平台是有类似的宣传但是还是要我们去灵活地运用现在比较热门的话题"},{"start":26598.494,"end":26626.236,"text":"還是說大家比較關注的主題比較有興趣的這是我希望說故宮能夠比較活潑一點的去參考比較多元的可以吸引那個遊客的這個元素那第五十案的部分呢是針對說我們這個導覽能力尤其是韓語的這個部分那故宮有說明了我也給予你們支持與肯定你們包含就是說你們有跟韓文系的大專校院來簽這個備忘錄那也跟政大合作開設相關的課程喔"},{"start":26627.697,"end":26636.002,"text":"我相信這樣的方法是有望的實質來提升增加這個韓語志工的人數那其實我們如果去參觀 入館參觀我們覺得為什麼要有導覽因為導覽就是有時候在我們參觀的這個過程裡面我們在解說文物可能會聽到一些"},{"start":26645.268,"end":26670.391,"text":"志工他們知道的一些不一樣的趣聞或是意識那有時候導覽志工他們自己有本身的看法來傳遞給遊客的時候他們也有不同的感受就是希望說他們能夠看到更多面更多元的那所以說韓語志工人數如果可以穩定的增加我們可以讓韓國遊客能夠更深入的了解故宮我想這個對於來館的人數的提升也是會有很大的幫助"},{"start":26670.891,"end":26691.435,"text":"那第六十三案的部分呢是之前在質詢的時候質詢過院長關於就是導入AI導覽的系統讓遊客有不同的這個觀展的體驗那故宮有說你們現在正在開發中預計在年底會有初步的形象出來所以這個部分呢我也改組決議但是希望說你們趕快這個進度可以盡快的來研議以上好蔡村卓委員"},{"start":26701.804,"end":26717.136,"text":"我針對49案做個說明那這個49案是債還招聘12名的人力那這個故宮也有來本辦來做一個說明那這個因為的就是連預算"},{"start":26720.758,"end":26736.886,"text":"省起來來支付水電的一個必要支出這個本行是可以接受那在這裡還是要再跟故宮提出一個建議人員節省下來但是我覺得志工的招聘"},{"start":26737.726,"end":26758.175,"text":"要讓一些公教人員退休的這些不管是公務人員、老師、校長都可以聘請這些來當我們的志工讓他們覺得生命再一次被利用在這裡跟故宮再提出這樣的一個說明最後也就請能夠將展場的一個管理還有觀眾服務這個分支計畫的預算"},{"start":26767.219,"end":26787.267,"text":"在一個月內呢能夠提出獲悉的一個展覽的安排施工隊動線還有文物安全的影響成長能力的配置還有階段性的人力調整機制還有展場服務績效指標之順便報告後呢那我就這個案子就改為主決議好 武力華委員 再來郭益群委員"},{"start":26794.636,"end":26819.153,"text":"好 謝謝主席在第三幕我有三案那我做一個簡單的說明也都可以改為主決議在51案的部分是提到推廣行銷的經費那最主要是因為看到民眾意見調查報告指北院的觀眾他的現場是喜歡購買紙本票券"},{"start":26819.853,"end":26840.516,"text":"而且這個比率是不降反升那南苑呢更是長期高度依賴人工櫃台那現場的電子售票機的使用率是偏低的所以在這個部分呢就是看得到這個電子化的維運費用變得還蠻高的七千七百多萬"},{"start":26841.577,"end":26867.745,"text":"所以這個部分就做出這樣的一個要求說明那因為也有來辦公室說明所以我們就改組決議那在第58案的部分主要是關於就是審計部的報告指出就是沒有落實資通系統的變更管理那這個部分呢就是對於下載交付使用的文物的高階圖檔"},{"start":26868.945,"end":26890.099,"text":"那沒有實施保存與使用情形的追蹤這個調查案那也沒有要求使用單位完成後要銷毀所以原本做出凍結那也有來辦公室做說明了所以這個部分也就改成主決議那再來是第65案那65案它是關於因為"},{"start":26891.139,"end":26919.111,"text":"在115年度的預算有新增一個計畫就是打造AI智慧博物館共構數位含榮生態計畫那這裡是我也希望改組決議我是希望更多就是關於原住民的一些文物的部分可以去做一個互動融入到這樣的一個AI智慧博物館裡面不管是AI或VR的部分我是做組決議"},{"start":26920.491,"end":26946.127,"text":"希望這個部分也能夠特別的把它融入好 以上好 請議事人員登記委員的提案改成主決議的部分下一位郭玉琴委員好 在這一幕當中我是37 55跟60那37這個部分主要是根據這個觀光署2025年的優統計就是我們的故宮的北院觀光的一個排名"},{"start":26946.867,"end":26966.642,"text":"那當然故宮有來辦公室來說明就是說因應的一些策略包含策展、敘事或者是我們的拓展購票通路還有強化交通的連結等等那這一案我不堅持可以改成主決議那如果故宮有詳細的一些計畫再提供給我們"},{"start":26969.864,"end":26989.767,"text":"好 那另外是第55案那這一案主要是針對目前其實外籍的這個遊客這個韓國的旅客已經正式超越了日本那我相信這也是比較最主要的一個外籍的一個客群但是針對這個院內目前的志工"},{"start":26990.888,"end":27008.716,"text":"精通韓語的人員只有一位的配置那雖然故宮有表示說這個韓團他們通常會帶自己的解說人員他們自己本來就有解說人員那但是我想還是要去持續增加這個韓語的語音的導覽然後觀光手冊等等"},{"start":27009.456,"end":27035.035,"text":"那來做就是可能要因應這個人潮的部分那這個部分我也沒有堅持可以改組決議好那第六十案的部分是針對南院參觀人次的部分那我想這個部分呢我也可以改組決議但是我們要如何強化這個南北院的一些資源的一些整合那也希望故宮能夠進一步提供這個書面上的一個報告跟說明好 以上"},{"start":27036.158,"end":27058.214,"text":"好謝謝國許委員那我的部分呢我的提案是三四案那也是一樣我們看到經查故宮的門票收入111年度有回升但是呢沒有恢復到疫情前的水準114年8月底的購票參觀人數僅占比計51.81"},{"start":27063.988,"end":27078.433,"text":"低於108年度的64%顯示故宮在吸引這個民眾購票入管的這個部分轉換仍然有限那再來我想尤其我們看到"},{"start":27081.059,"end":27105.96,"text":"112年到114年8月底外籍旅客佔比降至三成113年外籍旅客參觀人數僅恢復至108年的三成尤其東南亞的旅客佔比也下降顯示我們這個國際行銷通路的部分還有我們的外語服務仍然有待強化"},{"start":27106.921,"end":27130.862,"text":"那這個部分我想我在質詢的時候也有說過我以韓國來舉例相關的這個遊客所留下的評比他沒有單單的只是評好不好他也有講述了內容那也希望說你們應該要好好的參考再來是4747案也是一樣對不起翻到47"},{"start":27135.512,"end":27161.987,"text":"47案也是關心我們這個國際觀光客來台參觀故宮來達到文化外交的一個目標那我想我們看到這個因此編列國際的旅展餐展行銷推廣這樣的預算那也看到有提出新故宮計畫都是希望能夠達到世界級的觀光需求但是呢112年度"},{"start":27164.068,"end":27179.495,"text":"我剛剛提到我們的觀光國際旅客還是樣占比都沒有提升而且也還沒有達到過往的一個紀錄所以也提出了凍結相關的提案以上跟大家併案處理"},{"start":27182.025,"end":27197.209,"text":"那是不是先請我們的故宮主管機關先回覆但我還是再次提醒故宮麻煩你可能簡單扼要並且著重我們委員的需求直接答覆那拜託一下謝謝"},{"start":27213.767,"end":27231.232,"text":"跟委員報告52案的部分就是無障礙的部分目前的我們已經在規劃有三個方式來作業第一個就是我們在第二展覽館的東側的部分的坡地上我們現在已經在今年會開工然後施作無障礙的電扶梯跟無障礙的電梯"},{"start":27233.032,"end":27258.208,"text":"那這一塊的部分我們已經發包營業廠商在處理我們今年現在在做開工前的一些作業那這個做完以後大概118年完成以後在自善路下車的主要是搭公車來故宮的話可以從這個邊坡的我們現在設計的這個設置的這個無障礙電梯或電扶梯直接上我們的第二展覽館"},{"start":27259.108,"end":27285.998,"text":"那這個電梯將來也是會跟我們Y28車站捷運車站有做相通的部分那第二個從上到我們的平面上到我們到第二展覽館以後要往鎮館的方向走然後往鎮館方向走就會到了第二我們所謂的研究大樓跟我們的鎮館之間因為現在是有車道的經過那我們在之前會設了一個我們會做一個無障礙的人行的一個平台"},{"start":27286.738,"end":27310.108,"text":"也就是說以後在人車交會這一點會可以就是解決這個問題那還有剛才委員提到說滑表的兩邊一邊是致賽園一邊是我們的林運大道那這兩塊的兩個通道的就是在東側的部分這兩部都會設各東西兩側都會設計一個設置一個那個電梯以後如果從致賽園東側進來的話可以"},{"start":27313.749,"end":27336.717,"text":"從這個東側的電梯直接到我們的一樓鎮館一樓的平台然後走林蔭大道的話走到底也可以到我們直接搭電梯直接到我們的一樓平台所以這三個做完的話我們在無障礙的部分從日後以後不管你是從至善路下車或者是說直接我們到的都可以可以直接有無障礙的這個"},{"start":27338.447,"end":27361.457,"text":"那這個部分我們都在努力中那另外還有委員提到還有就是入口大廳議項因為這個涉及我們鎮館整建有那個文資的作業方式那我們也很積極了就包括我們在這個修復再利用計畫我們今年的4月30號到5月31號把在鎮館的二樓的平台有做一些我們的模型還有一些未來願景的一個展覽"},{"start":27362.617,"end":27388.371,"text":"那另外我們在5月22號也邀集了各觀光建築文化資產保護的相關的專家學者來做論壇那6月12號的晚上6月13號的早上那我們也辦對民眾舉辦公開說明會那其實現在就是我們在整理這些資料以後會再送文資審查那這現在是我們整個進度的報告"},{"start":27397.926,"end":27415.175,"text":"委員好 麻煩我補充一下第43項我們在嘉義辦理那個皮克敏活動的時候我們有派人去參觀 去觀摩那我們也開始接洽那個台灣的公司那正在進行整個規劃當中預計在下半年會回來進行這樣子謝謝"},{"start":27432.013,"end":27435.683,"text":"都回覆完畢了嗎要釐清是嗎"},{"start":27437.93,"end":27457.155,"text":"有要回音了嗎慢慢來找不到的話可以說一聲我們可以等你但突然安靜會讓我們以為要結束了針對那個韓語韓語討論人力的部分我說明一下第一點其實我們要看那個韓語韓國人進來他是用團客和閃客"},{"start":27458.355,"end":27478.4,"text":"進來的特性那如果是團客的話其實我們故宮已經強化韓語導遊培訓就是說韓國的團客其實他有一個特性他會自帶韓語解說人員來做解說所以這個部分團客的部分是沒有問題的"},{"start":27479.54,"end":27505.746,"text":"然後我們這個導遊培訓的部分我們也要特別說明一下我們每年都跟交通部觀光署和中華民國觀光導遊協會合作辦韓語導遊培訓然後我們培訓的對象也擴及到對於韓語故宮文物導覽有興趣的社會人士所以這個部分是我們做的導遊培訓然後第二個就是"},{"start":27507.606,"end":27529.134,"text":"我們針對散課的部分散課的部分其實我們故宮也做的很多如果他是用自由行進來的話那第一個就是韓語版的語音導覽內容其實韓語版是跟我們華英日韓一樣多就是它的數量是我們所有語音導覽裡面華英日韓都一樣齊平的都有應該是將近快200折所以內容很豐富"},{"start":27535.956,"end":27556.351,"text":"然後我們韓語版的平面圖在服務台也可以索取然後展場 我們的展場的也針對韓語的人士越來越多我們展場裡面也有做韓語的標示然後相關的官網也有韓語版然後甚至在我們有一些導覽手冊也有韓語版的"},{"start":27558.653,"end":27571.472,"text":"還有一些觀光手冊所以這個閃課的部分這個利用度也都很多然後當然我們最後一個招募志工我們會透過多方宣傳廣告廣徵韓語人士報名"},{"start":27574.946,"end":27579.21,"text":"然後擴充韓語導覽人力但是我們今年其實在4月9號的時候我們院長親自主持韓語導覽人力提升座談會邀了旅遊界和專家學者參與那就是要了解韓語導覽人力的部分那這個部分有幾個重點啦就是說我們未來會"},{"start":27599.99,"end":27628.394,"text":"跟政大和文化大學韓語系來培育他的相關韓語導覽人才然後提升韓語導覽人力然後我們也在最近最近會跟他簽MOU然後政大的部分已經敲定了我們在115年第一學期要開課然後文化大學大概是下一個學期所以相關的旅遊業界專家學者我們也了解他們大概的情況是什麼"},{"start":27628.874,"end":27640.702,"text":"然後以上簡單補充說明參觀人數的部分目前今年今年1到5月外籍參觀人數是"},{"start":27660.734,"end":27670.461,"text":"外籍參觀人數是北院的部分北院的部分是385,482人然後韓國占最多142,610人然後其次是日本然後本國遊客是452,108人然後總參觀人數是837,590人比去年同期是增加然後增加大概2%"},{"start":27692.802,"end":27700.432,"text":"是本國增加2%還是外國total增加2%然後本國人是增加了16%還有委員沒有被回覆的嗎好那我們現在來處理"},{"start":27713.39,"end":27716.511,"text":"第三幕綜合規劃與推廣行銷提案案號31到65審查的結果改為主決議31 33 35 37 38 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 48 49 50 51 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 65"},{"start":27740.305,"end":27766.723,"text":"以上所提改為主決議其他的我們本幕合併要簡略 凍結請各位委員提出建議主席不然我建議 然後因為我提的那個"},{"start":27768.28,"end":27797.458,"text":"就是剛有解釋就是那個入口那個改善計畫看起來故宮是有用心要來做這件事情啦所以我也把我自己的這個52案改成主決議對我還有另外一個案是3939跟52都改主決議那如果按照這樣的話剛聽主席這樣念下來應該幾乎都改主決議所以我建議這個募就照列以上"},{"start":27798.442,"end":27809.646,"text":"好謝謝 補充宣告39 52改為主決議好那因為我所提的這一個47還有34"},{"start":27817.871,"end":27831.626,"text":"都還是希望說我們能夠再提升那剛剛看到是有跟我們講整體提升2%本國旅客提升16%但是還沒有到年底還不知道真的"},{"start":27833.24,"end":27856.832,"text":"還是實際有都會提升希望能夠透過凍結來讓故宮能夠再加強那這整個科目是兩億三那我有兩個案子都是凍結一百萬那我希望說本幕就合併凍結五十萬來提書面報告使得動之可以嗎"},{"start":27858.063,"end":27879.331,"text":"好 那我們這個本木合併凍結50萬元提出書面報告時的凍資我們還是希望能夠加強外國旅客那剛剛有聽到韓國的部分我也其實沒有要針對韓國各國都重要提升這個人才培育MOU跟大學合作我們都"},{"start":27880.171,"end":27899.418,"text":"正面看待但是如果真的人數缺工學校沒辦法支持看用科技輔導的部分這個部分還是要再提醒科技的部分加強一個QR code全部語言都可以選擇然後線上做翻譯這樣就好了真的不行其實現在翻譯軟體真的很方便"},{"start":27900.66,"end":27919.557,"text":"好 接著處理第四幕文物安全管理與修護提案案號第66案至75案請提案的委員舉手發言好好 請放下 謝謝請蔡淳仁委員先發言後面開始"},{"start":27921.783,"end":27924.585,"text":"謝謝主席我針對第73案再做個強調因為這個螞蟻的事件故宮其實都已經來到本辦來做一個說明剛剛也有很多委員也都有提出也都有做說明在這裡仍然再強調一下因為故宮裡面都是我們的國寶所以一定要針對"},{"start":27951.981,"end":27972.753,"text":"有縫的地方一定要針對問題來解決問題啦所以呢只要呢提出一些從遠的一個排除文物的檢查展櫃重新啟用的標準還有後續監測改善的書面報告那本案呢就改為主結議 以上請郭議員發言"},{"start":27980.236,"end":28006.33,"text":"好 這一幕我是第70跟第74那第70案是針對這個故宮的典藏大概有70萬件的一個文物啦那但是目前的庫房的編制的人力大概只有50個人等於平均每一個人要管理14000多件的一個文物那過去當然我們也發現這個人力不足的部分其實還是會影響到整個所有的管理跟維護"},{"start":28008.22,"end":28033.348,"text":"那我想之前質詢的時候我也提過就不能等到這個文物真的出百集就是才發現說有人力上的一個困境那這個部分其實故宮也有來說明那當然因為原額的一個限制所以我們也就是積極的向這個行政院來做這個專案人力或者是經費的資源上的支持那原本其實我是小小的動這個只動了個八萬三那這個部分"},{"start":28037.069,"end":28062.197,"text":"我是可以改主決議沒有問題那第這個74案的部分那麼這一案呢也可以改成主決議啦那就是因為文物的盤點需要比較長的一段時間那但是還是需要這個盤點的效能能夠再加提升那看未來是怎麼樣再利用所謂的這個AI的部分來輔助那再請故宮提供報告好 以上"},{"start":28066.493,"end":28089.727,"text":"好 林益菁委員有需要發言嗎好 謝謝我是第67案來 67案67案上一次我在委員會質詢的時候那院長有答詢有坦言就是有關於這個北院庫房空間不足那影響這個文物盤點的卡囉"},{"start":28091.568,"end":28117.071,"text":"那可見這個其實狹隘的這個北院的庫房空間已經對文物相關的工作動線造成負面的影響那針對這一項議題本席有進一步提出這個預算監督案那故宮當然也有來說明表示說為了騰出更多的庫房空間北院有打算重新規劃辦公場地那這一次的文物全面盤點也會在研究大樓內完成"},{"start":28118.752,"end":28134.991,"text":"那今年下半年就要正式著手文物的全面盤點所以本席想要進一步詢問的有三點第一 研究大樓這一波的空間改革是否已經足夠讓盤點的工作游刃有餘的進行"},{"start":28135.732,"end":28154.6,"text":"那第二是說北院的這個庫房空間是否已堪稱充足那第三是南院二館2028啟用後那南北院的典藏空間會有什麼樣的新的合作模式這三點等一下請那個故宮回答一下那第71案"},{"start":28158.496,"end":28183.044,"text":"故宮的這個善本古籍在第一任院長這個蔣富聰院長時期其實就已經大致有整理那編目也就緒那這個檔案違憲也一樣在這個蔣富聰院長時期就做了整理有所謂的工中黨這個軍機黨這個最著名那在逐一見都做了目錄卡片"},{"start":28183.902,"end":28202.836,"text":"那我這些提案其實很單純我要關心的是既然在第一任的院長時期故宮就完成了這些工中黨、軍機黨的這種逐漸目錄那麼往後的四十多年故宮針對其他的黨策逐漸去做出目錄的工作到底完成了怎麼樣"},{"start":28203.917,"end":28224.041,"text":"那這些基本的整理之所以那麼重要是因為你唯有這樣的整理你才能方便導入電腦以鍵為單位去進行檢索那故宮給我的回應是說文獻類的文物檔、檔冊這個類型很多樣內容很複雜所以逐漸編幕還在陸續進行建置"},{"start":28228.002,"end":28252.092,"text":"那是否可以大概Google目前的完成百分比完成度的百分比那也同時可不可以訂出一個比較明確的工作的這個schedule的完成期程那是不是可以三個月內交給這個教文委員會OK嗎如果大家OK的話那這一案我就不堅持動多少那另外"},{"start":28254.087,"end":28270.102,"text":"最後75案75案關心的是故宮典藏的這種古籍善本它損傷的程度不一所以應該是要透過分籍設計才可能訂出合理可行的修復計畫"},{"start":28271.844,"end":28287.701,"text":"那本席想要問的是說那如何分期那何時訂定修復的計畫那同時我也要求故宮要給出修復的相關工作進度那但是故宮後來的回覆卻顯得有點答非所問故宮說到2012年"},{"start":28290.023,"end":28304.029,"text":"年為止已經完成了92%的清查那在接下來的文物全面盤點工作中還會完成其他沒有清查到的8%那至於修復工作工作則要怎麼持續滾動式的調整"},{"start":28306.25,"end":28326.691,"text":"本席的疑惑是,第一,這個古籍散本的損傷程度的分級,跟接下來的文物全面盤點的工作應該是無關。那既然早在14年前已經得知92%的保存狀況基礎資料,那為什麼今天會打不出說,如何針對這個散本古籍的損傷程度進行分級?"},{"start":28328.092,"end":28354.249,"text":"這是第一個問題第二個問題是那你如果答不出如何對善本古籍的損傷程度進行分級那你未來要怎麼進行所謂的修復規劃跟執行的排程難道說過去所謂的這個文物全面盤點都留於形式嗎所以盤點的結果沒有辦法充分讓故宮去足以做出針對善本古籍的損傷程度的分級掌握這是我"},{"start":28356.465,"end":28378.257,"text":"我的問題那所以我要請故宮在三個月內可不可以將這個古籍散本損傷程度的分級狀況跟未來的修復計畫以及修復目前修復相關的工作進度的百分比也送交委員會那如果等一下看故宮怎麼回答那等一下再跟大家一起並動以上好 謝謝那我是66"},{"start":28388.783,"end":28397.95,"text":"第66案我想也是不管剛剛有委員所提到的這個展櫃裡面出現有蟲的部分那"},{"start":28399.259,"end":28424.357,"text":"雖然沒有受損,但是也有啟動預防性的卸展這當然SOP有做到我們還是希望要重視這個展放的空間、環境、蟲害、防治、異常的事件的一個通報機制還是要稍微檢查一下那我想因為故宮所點藏的文物真的是國家重要的一個資產"},{"start":28425.714,"end":28454.249,"text":"那另外呢文物的安全不應僅限於展櫃庫房典藏的內容消防的設備還有整個我們看到數位典藏高階圖檔資訊系統的管理都應該要同步建置完整的集合流程將這個文物保存也好智慧財產的保護也好那給予社會更高的一個信任度"},{"start":28454.929,"end":28477.308,"text":"那我想還是要提這個案子那稍微請我們的這個相關故宮要重視還有直通安全的部分也一定要重視來提出此案待會跟大家並動一起來討論以上是各個委員的提案發言也請故宮回覆"},{"start":28482.383,"end":28511.562,"text":"端寶處處長林國平來回覆那我就依照這個提案的順序從66案開始那基本這個文物的安全保存在整個故宮博物院它有一個完整的體系事實上這一次包括螞蟻這個問題它就顯示出預防保存的一個重要性事實上我們防範的這個生物防治也不光只是我們看到的螞蟻還有很多很多不同的生物尤其是更嚴重的可能是白蟻我們還沒看到"},{"start":28512.523,"end":28528.643,"text":"我們針對這些損害不同層次的生物防治都有不同的機制也從展館、庫房一直延伸到整個大的環境包括外面的草皮我們都定時會放一些幼兒去做一些驅蟲的工作"},{"start":28529.264,"end":28555.372,"text":"那這一次表示我們的預防做的雖然有很多的工作但還是有一些漏洞包括從這些強縫進來的巨山蟻這一次出現了那我們這一次也點了一些教訓就是說當它出現的時候我們怎麼樣在最快的時間之內判斷同時研判要怎麼樣去做防治同時找到根源去做整個阻絕而不是急病亂投醫的可能就這樣"},{"start":28556.112,"end":28569.172,"text":"一般人的想像拿著這個殺蟲器就開始去鋪砂事實上並不是那麼單純所以我們請了很多學者專家來協助所以在後續建立這些預防保存的機制裡面除了針對剛剛委員關切的展場"},{"start":28571.977,"end":28594.079,"text":"庫房一直到大環境我們除了專業的人士投入之外我們也會要求整個院內的同仁從生活上的習慣還有各式各樣的這些可能會引起這些生物性的這些危害的一些作為我們都會去建立機制同時去加強管制所以我先摘要的先回應這一點"},{"start":28596.513,"end":28613.702,"text":"那再來就是到67案剛剛有特別提到的空間的問題空間大家總是永遠覺得好像不大夠那這一次我們新故宮計畫針對整個故宮博物院的展場"},{"start":28614.762,"end":28642.519,"text":"還有典藏庫房的擴充整個空間的重新的規劃也花了很大的精神我相信這一次我們的大盤點在研究大樓裡面的器物跟書畫的庫房這方面的空間應該比之前都已經做了一個大幅的改善雖然可能還是有一些空間不見得如理想當中那麼好但是因為有的這一次的新故宮計畫都已經做了一些改善"},{"start":28643.399,"end":28662.532,"text":"那麼整個後續的盤點跟這一次的這個動線我們在這一次盤點就會面臨一個很大的考驗我相信我們會去做最好的一個配置那針對六七案我們先做這樣子一個簡要的答覆那麼接下來好像還是"},{"start":28665.983,"end":28680.989,"text":"郭委員提的第70案就有關於我們這些後續的盤點的流程經費的來源 人力的配置這一點我們在目前已經做了仔細的規劃同時我們也預計會在整個設發計畫裡面來做一些"},{"start":28686.692,"end":28703.312,"text":"新的需求同時呢希望能夠爭取到社發計畫的支持從在經費上人力上都給我們一些新的一個經費來源那第七十一案林委員提到的可能是蘇文初這邊我想是不是我們就請蘇文初來介紹"},{"start":28706.939,"end":28726.272,"text":"蘇澳文獻處何妍全這邊補充一下就是關於71案林益菁委員提到的這個目前已經完成的編目大概是1669冊那還沒有完成的有9663冊那因為我們的編目的人力就是利用研究人員業餘就是說"},{"start":28727.133,"end":28746.662,"text":"他們的時間就是他們每個月其實每個禮拜都有安排進度但因為人在編這個編幕的人數相當有限不多就幾位而已所以進度沒有辦法很快那目前完成百分比大概是14.7%這是那個逐冊編幕的部分那另外一個"},{"start":28748.212,"end":28774.667,"text":"關於古籍的那個傷損程度那百分之八我想因為古籍有一些確實是傷損的蠻厲害的那可能在上一次清點的時候也沒有辦法去真正的去釐清而且清點的時間上一次清點時間到後段其實有點比較趕一點那我們這一次因為針對這個我們把時間拉長所以這一次可能會比較仔細的去調查到底傷損的程度到哪裡有些書可能甚至連打都打不開的"},{"start":28776.048,"end":28791.55,"text":"對 就是甚少數 比較少數 可能就是8%裡面的好 那以上報告好有沒有委員沒有被回覆到的好 那這一幕我們一起來處理"},{"start":28794.997,"end":28821.731,"text":"文物安全管理與修復提案案號66至75案審查結果68 69 70 72 73 74改為主決議那本幕呢合併有沒有委員要提出建議簡列 凍結好那因為我 蛤"},{"start":28824.998,"end":28834.13,"text":"好有委員建議照列那這個部分呢我原本提66案凍結100萬那我想文物安全"},{"start":28838.655,"end":28858.632,"text":"管理的部分蟲害的部分那當然也看到坦白講我剛剛有講就是有發現蟲隻但你們也預防性的策展實際上是這個SOP是有做到的那我們也樂觀其成希望與此精進但還是希望動一下以致鼓勵啦50萬"},{"start":28861.923,"end":28881.986,"text":"那也是有這個提出書面報告時的動之我想這個基本上象徵性的啦還是希望真的要鼓勵說這個重資不能開玩笑那當然這個是螞蟻不是白蟻啦但是全部以我們現況絕對不可能只有螞蟻的狀況所以也拜託一下這個文物的部分要特別重視"},{"start":28883.768,"end":28906.542,"text":"主席因為那個主席建議要動50萬嘛那我的71案跟75案是不是就來跟主席的案子一起並動然後我也特別要求就是71案是要要求說在那個這個就是"},{"start":28907.583,"end":28911.564,"text":"文獻類的文物檔冊的歸類逐漸編募完成度的百分比也訂出比較詳細的書面報告三個月內要送到教文委員會"},{"start":28924.908,"end":28937.403,"text":"還有就是這個古籍散本的修復損傷程度的分級狀況修復計畫跟相關的這個工作進度的報告是不是也送到委員會來那這兩個書面報告OK"},{"start":28939.701,"end":28968.504,"text":"好 那有委員提出墳墓一起合併凍結那我們都登記下來總共是凍結50萬那也再次提醒我們故宮沒有這些文物就沒有故宮那也特別要重視文物的展覽保存相關的一些重點項目那接著處理第五墓新故宮計畫提案號第76號之91案前我們先休息8分鐘"},{"start":28969.841,"end":28997.455,"text":"喔 對不起 我並針對 我先宣告剛剛的項目啦齁那個凍結50萬元並針對各凍結的提案之要求齁依審查會決議提出書面報告 使得凍之那接著處理第五幕之前 我們先休息八分鐘休息熱愛八分鐘 八這個數字五太急啦那就 乾脆十分鐘好好 八分鐘 八分鐘"},{"start":29004.859,"end":29016.808,"text":"沒有啊不是,因為我經歷過世代,不可能回去對啊所以我就關注你,我就怕你覺得因為你今天還要認輸啊可是我沒有,我沒找誰告訴我後面的人,我覺得我能談到一點點就好了謝謝大家"},{"start":29030.058,"end":29046.302,"text":"只有不可怨的 主要是那是谁不像我走光了 到最高的那一层但我活下来的时候 没有办法 只有我太抱怨了那就是一个 不像钱不像钱不像钱不像钱不像钱不像钱"},{"start":29055.009,"end":29067.714,"text":"那我這樣喔我整個房間到底是在教育社會化的程度那不是一種教育啊那不是一種教育啊那不是一種教育啊那不是一種教育啊那不是一種教育啊"},{"start":29082.546,"end":29082.926,"text":"嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":29099.285,"end":29105.889,"text":"所以我們報紙沒有票進去然後所以你...因為你出白天來那你也要出白天來"},{"start":29130.639,"end":29130.979,"text":"嗯嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":29163.304,"end":29164.885,"text":"好好的,不得了,不得了,不得了"},{"start":29190.505,"end":29191.086,"text":"就搞錯了"},{"start":29222.534,"end":29250.533,"text":"對啊,我現在不能去,就沒有異議了我現在回去,那我現在感覺到,我現在很肉慘現在我只要坐完一天,然後有很多被放棄,然後回到我家搬然後晚上如果要坐三天,要坐十點二十三點,我現在自己有一個多小時那如果明天早上一天早來,對啊如果明天早來,是要坐七點以後,對,我要坐七點二十八點"},{"start":29253.015,"end":29263.486,"text":"所以我們回去那個美術館因為去哪兒回去是要往哪兒去那裡去那裡去那裡去那裡去那裡去那裡去那裡去那裡去"},{"start":29272.716,"end":29278.122,"text":"差不多都好,不需要发炎这身受保护"},{"start":29288.093,"end":29291.114,"text":"我走啊我走啊我走啊我走啊我走啊"},{"start":29313.438,"end":29315.06,"text":"他有說年代歷史清楚"},{"start":29339.4,"end":29349.504,"text":"人家是想要参加那个紫禁卫士网页之类的后期就问他有没有了没有了没有了投我投我"},{"start":29368.817,"end":29374.78,"text":"但是我看到这个桌子我都会自动找到这个桌子来选择你帮我去呗你帮我去"},{"start":29387.94,"end":29388.1,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":29416.187,"end":29416.267,"text":"鸡腿"},{"start":29462.827,"end":29490.274,"text":"好 現在我們開始開會接著處理第五幕新故宮計畫提案案號從第76到91案請提案的委員舉手發言好 那我們先從前面好 林錦委員 謝謝我先替吳思堯委員發言一下他79案跟823案要改成組決議"},{"start":29492.791,"end":29520.913,"text":"我是84案跟85案因為時間的關係這兩案我就一併講那基本上這個都涉及到新故宮計畫那因為北院其實超過60年那他的建物其實都已經老舊那也都超過使用年限然後又漏水然後什麼新舊建築的那個伸縮防水縫反正就很多問題那不同程度的損壞所以其實這個趕快"},{"start":29522.634,"end":29551.401,"text":"整擴建這是當務之急那現在就是說整擴建也可以讓故宮成為一個現代化的博物館的一個很重要的一步那所以除了我們一直探討就是進出口的動線要能夠人性化那也可以規劃挑高的這個部分的展廳那可以放那種大型的那種巨幅的這個畫作就像人家外國的那種博物館一樣那實際上其實現在的第二展覽館"},{"start":29552.321,"end":29571.973,"text":"它的空間配置全面升級就是很好的示範那不管是跨國界展或者是我們自己的故宮國寶其實很多的珍貴文物都有更優質的展示空間那現在就是故宮北院鎮館的全面整潑件又浮現一個課題就是我們文物典藏空間"},{"start":29573.359,"end":29598.097,"text":"跟這個展覽檔期的規劃的問題其實2018那個時候有一個前例當時的立委就有批評說你北院整擴建那應該要同時去照顧到文物的安全可是如果那時候的故宮的報告卻對文物怎麼樣移動安置欠缺明確的交代所以那個時候那時候的委員就停止審查這個新故宮計畫的相關預算"},{"start":29599.658,"end":29619.523,"text":"所以現在到了2026的今天兩個問題向故宮請教這個前車之鑑擺在眼前那故宮這次預計什麼時候要跟立法院跟社會大眾完整交代就是在北院鎮館全面擴展鑑的時候你文物的典藏空間跟文物的移動跟它的展覽檔期的規劃要怎麼處理"},{"start":29621.544,"end":29647.226,"text":"第二就是2018年的時候當時的前院長馮明珠她有跳出來質疑就是說臨時庫房在哪裡然後由誰改裝那是否符合這個故宮典藏文物管理作業要點的規定那也有不具名的這個研究員故宮研究員有指出其實圖書文獻大樓很窗戶多那日照嚴重其實不宜存放文物所以認為這樣子的移動其實"},{"start":29649.688,"end":29663.379,"text":"有點形容這個國保浩劫所以故宮要怎麼樣確保這些質疑喔能夠一一被排除這些問題等一下再請故宮做個回應好 以上 謝謝好 剛剛因為兩位沒有舉手啦先稍等一下蔡村丑委員蔡村丑委員結束以後再吳立華委員 郭益勤委員好"},{"start":29680.344,"end":29700.276,"text":"我針對七十六案做個說明這個新故宮計畫本席是寄予厚望我再提一次 事實上我一直在推動文化外交的雙引擎"},{"start":29703.918,"end":29729.285,"text":"其一就是故宮的國寶再來我還是要跟院長再提就是說台灣的宗教文化尤其是媽祖文化其實它對台灣來講它是一個很有特色的文化未來我們希望說我們的故宮國寶還有我們台灣的宗教文化都能夠推到國外"},{"start":29729.645,"end":29744.71,"text":"或者是吸引國外的遊客來到台灣來欣賞這些國寶跟我們的特殊的一個宗教文化再來就是我們希望透過這個新故宮計畫能夠來"},{"start":29748.351,"end":29771.329,"text":"提升我們故宮的一個軟實力而且能夠希望未來能夠以羅湖宮還有大英博物館能夠並駕齊驅這是我們對於故宮的一個期望第二我在這裡要建議說能夠利用蘭故宮的一個優勢因為蘭故宮它的面積比較大"},{"start":29772.708,"end":29800.488,"text":"它有70公頃的面積常常故宮很適合一日遊在這裡要建議就是說南院是越來越好在暑假期間要不要考慮一下就是說能夠延長廠館的開放時間再來戶外能夠再設計一些活動讓暑假期間有很多"},{"start":29802.749,"end":29827.051,"text":"爸爸媽媽都帶著孩子都到故宮一日遊有時候都還不夠玩不夠所以這個是不是能夠再設計一下譬如剛剛我們昭偉講的有水舞的一個表演然後還有很多故宮裡面很多亮點我們同時能夠利用暑假期間讓我們的孩子有地方去然後也能夠提升觀光的一個人質"},{"start":29828.572,"end":29856.098,"text":"然後最後就是我們希望透過這一次的一個能夠提出第四次修正計畫經費的影響還有分項工程的一個進度116年度完成目標是否能夠維持智慧建築標章及估計價等這樣追蹤的一個事項能夠提出書面說明那麼本案就並動"},{"start":29858.078,"end":29858.78,"text":"併動處理好 謝謝有請吳立華委員"},{"start":29866.515,"end":29894.766,"text":"謝謝主席我這邊是第90案那最主要是因為這個新故宮計畫在106年合併以來歷經了三次的修正那計畫的期程也一直展延到了明年116年度所以在這邊我們很關心就是明年能不能夠如期如質完成那執行率的部分我們也很關心所以像新行政大樓"},{"start":29895.586,"end":29910.496,"text":"新建的圖書館雖然目前是驗收但是還沒有取得智慧建築標章那獨立展櫃等等都是關心的部分那因為已經有來到辦公室說明了所以我這個部分就改組決議謝謝"},{"start":29914.565,"end":29939.145,"text":"好 郭文綺委員好 這一幕我是87跟88那故宮也有來特別說明針對捷克展的時候當時的一個恐嚇的事件跟法國展的一些爭議的事件這個部分我可以改成主決議但是還是要提醒就是跨部會如果動態的一些風險的評估跟應變的SOP可能還是要更小心那第88案就是針對南苑在燈會的時候接駁車的爭議"},{"start":29943.809,"end":29951.706,"text":"那這個部分呢故宮也有來說明當時實際的一個狀況那這個部分我同意可以改成主決議好 以上"},{"start":29952.776,"end":29982.176,"text":"好 我自己是82案 也一樣 跟蔡春秋委員特別關心我想這個新故宮計畫呢 歷經三次修正那還是有待加強以及我們的玻璃入口停營方案再遭文資審議否決顯示故宮在設計的部分溝通文資價值的橫貧風險控管還是仍有待強化所以提了此案 凍結100萬以上所有的委員所提的治案"},{"start":29983.378,"end":29984.982,"text":"請故宮回覆嗯"},{"start":29991.601,"end":30021.081,"text":"我先說好那我們這邊做北部縣區修復再利用計畫的部分來說明去年的6月30號台北市文化局審議的結論裡面說我們在修正計畫後以相分程序來送審所以在今年的4月30號到5月31號兩個月的時間因為這經過前面的一個修正然後我們在鎮管把院景圖跟剛才講說還有模型的部分做展示"},{"start":30021.881,"end":30049.3,"text":"然後我們又辦了所謂的專家論壇這邊有邀請了一些大師來到我們故宮來做一些意見的交流那在上個禮拜就是6月12號跟6月13號做了說明會就是邀請我們附近的鄰里還有一些民眾就是公開的很多像導遊來參加的部分然後我們也做了一些在來參加我們的說明會的人也做了一些滿意度的調查"},{"start":30050.06,"end":30055.974,"text":"這些我們大概都已經在整理了我們希望在今天我們整理完以後會受文化局來審議"},{"start":30060.225,"end":30085.593,"text":"另外我這邊補充一下剛剛其實那個林議級委員這邊有特別關心說我們的文物的部分的一個安全性就是新故宮計畫它每一年的那個預算的編列的時候是何時編列就是依照我們的工程進度在編列那每個月的話是由我們黃副院長來召集就是公共建設的匯報那院長在每一個月的院務會議也會提示了解一下我們現在所有的工程的進度"},{"start":30086.753,"end":30115.851,"text":"那所以每一個每一年度的執行率大概都有到98部分比較高最低的話大概93那整個部分議員比較關心說文物的部分我們是把工程的部分跟文物的動線是完全的區隔的部分目前的那個執行的狀態是完全的區隔而且我們會依照我們的文物的一個作業要點的部分就是它的文物管理的部分它是依照這個作業要點完全的去處理而且在整個的"},{"start":30116.451,"end":30143.182,"text":"提調就是在文物的提調或者是處理的當中我們都有安全維護的作業手冊的規範所以我們所有的不管是我們的研究人員或者是我們的諸位警都按照這個安全的維護手冊去執行那這個部分的話我們的全程的話都有我們的諸位警來進行監控的部分所以也想請委員這邊放心那至於剛剛委員有提到說我們的計畫到明年就已經要截止了"},{"start":30143.542,"end":30172.882,"text":"那其實很重要的就是社會溝通的部分那我們今年的社會溝通剛剛我們的秘書士主任也提到說我們除了我們在公開的展示我們用展覽的形式用公開的展示用建築模型的方式跟社會做對話我們希望我們這一次提出的修復再利用計畫能得到台北市文資局文資委員會的一個認可希望能夠盡速的推動讓整個鎮館的建築能夠進入修復的這個過程那也謝謝各位委員的一個支持"},{"start":30173.902,"end":30198.74,"text":"好以上有沒有回覆蔡委員好請說蔡委員對於南苑的暑期的部分希望我們加強相關的行銷宣傳特別是針對親子的部分那我們昨天其實開了三個展覽就是開展的部分是針對暑假三個大展那再來就是在6月26號水午也會來開展也是針對暑假"},{"start":30199.48,"end":30213.396,"text":"那另外親子藝術院每年我們都辦親子藝術院是在6月30號為期兩個月的一個針對親子的部分做這樣子的一個大型的活動那包括委員也建議說我們是不是可以"},{"start":30214.857,"end":30231.686,"text":"在這個展廳開的時間能夠延長我們確實現在在禮拜六禮拜天假日的部分都延長到六點那尤其它可以銜接晚上的水務這樣子那另外就是園區開放的時間我們也是都是延長從"},{"start":30233.467,"end":30244.97,"text":"到晚上12點那早上是5點就開園那這個方便就是遊客那也方便周邊的民眾做休閒遊憩活動以上跟委員報告"},{"start":30246.715,"end":30255.418,"text":"好那以上機關回覆已完畢那我們現在處理第五目新故宮計劃貼案號第76案至91案審查結果改為主決議78 79 83 86 87 88 89 90 91那除以上個案之外呢"},{"start":30272.483,"end":30282.396,"text":"好 81案已經收到了 已經改了改組決議我們一樣列入除以上各案外本目合併有沒有委員建議簡列 凍結"},{"start":30290.063,"end":30308.536,"text":"好 那沒有委員 那我是建議啦有委員建議照列 那我還是建議啦因為剛剛那個有提到新故宮計畫那有做相關的因應嘛 對不對就因為已經有被退回那目前又在加強溝通了那哪時候再送文資審議"},{"start":30313.713,"end":30332.632,"text":"因為我們才剛開完那個說明會說明會再送意見對意見然後意見現在要回饋到他的那個設計裡面還要做一些調整調整然後再送文職審議是是是所以事實上就是文職審議並沒有完全就是現在新的計畫出來是好"},{"start":30333.613,"end":30352.644,"text":"那所以還是要督促一下因為這個新故宮計畫已經三次修正了上次又被文職審議退那我們希望還是要加強溝通然後凝聚新的計畫讓文職審議能夠照案通過所以我予以凍結100萬"},{"start":30356.451,"end":30382.608,"text":"也希望後面能夠提出書面報告 使得動之這真的是要特別拜託啦 我想這個科目也不少錢 但是文職審議被退這真的是蠻重要的一件事情喔 三次修正了 到現在還沒有看到一個結果16億 凍結100萬 以之精進 好主席 那我的兩個案子 8485 也跟你一起變動"},{"start":30386.021,"end":30403.65,"text":"好本木合併喔併動100萬那8485喔那以及我自己的個人82並針對各凍結提案之要求依審查會的決議提出書面報告使得凍之以上"},{"start":30405.319,"end":30430.76,"text":"另外我們要處理第二款第五項國立故宮博物院之主決議提案案號是第九十二案至一百一十八案首先九十二案到九十五案都是主決議是九十五吧這九十六吧先看九二到九五啦好 九二有這個修正文字啦那主管機關有沒有意見"},{"start":30449.858,"end":30470.714,"text":"不好意思因為現在92案葛如君委員也沒簽名所以是不是還是要維持原本的提案來我先問一下92到95我們先回到主決議請問一下故宮有沒有意見"},{"start":30472.595,"end":30495.589,"text":"因為這是故宮建議的,故宮不會有意見建議文字是故宮建議的但是葛委員沒有簽名,我們不能照修正的通過葛委員不來,沒來就沒有辦法表示意見所以應該就是修正通過對啊我們還要顧及沒來的,那顧及不了對啊,沒來就放棄啊"},{"start":30507.662,"end":30531.424,"text":"所以你們現在是92案 你是相關辦理結果原本是兩個月然後你改成三個月好 建議修正文字通過好 9394這案通過 9596修正文字 好 修正通過"},{"start":30533.973,"end":30560.169,"text":"就是 沒有簽名喔也沒簽名 那你要補一下吧好 你們要去溝通一下我知道 兩個月改三個月 好 你們要溝通喔建議修正通過97到118都改成主決議喔 都是主決議那我自己本身102到110都是我的提案 八個案件喔那請問一下 可以嗎"},{"start":30562.042,"end":30576.51,"text":"好 遵照辦理 照案通過主決議提案案號92到118案審查結果 照案通過93至9497至118案修正通過的案號有92 95 96第一款項 第一項國立故宮博物院處理完畢"},{"start":30592.133,"end":30619.14,"text":"繼續處理故宮文物藝術發展基金業務總收入項收入業務收入提案案號第一案第二案那我們收到的已經改成主決議那業務總收入項下的一個業務收入提案案號第一第二審查結果改為主決議"},{"start":30623.635,"end":30643.869,"text":"我們繼續就預算照列了那繼續處理業務總支出項業務成本與費用第2案號3到6案好3到6案等我一下我是第4案"},{"start":30648.919,"end":30675.903,"text":"好 第四案呢 我們還是一樣啦 鼓勵那故宮有這個複設博物館商店網路的商城委託案那我想雖然110年度有逐漸成長 還是一樣沒有回到108年度的水準也希望你們能夠正視這個問題好有沒有其他委員要發言有另外委員"},{"start":30677.501,"end":30701.927,"text":"我的是第五案那這個部分我大概就是做一個建議文字就是我希望請故宮研議就是跟園民會聯名合作開發一些文創商品然後提升文創商品的多元性因為很多國際觀光客還有增加他的經營績效那這個部分我就改組決議"},{"start":30703.677,"end":30728.511,"text":"好 吳立華委員第五案改組決議我的第四案吼 那我想也是精進我們的網路商城相關的銷售啦吼那業務總支出下業務成本與費用提案號第三案到六案吼改為組決議的有第三第五那我的第四案"},{"start":30729.946,"end":30742.032,"text":"有要說明嗎還是就直接希望你們會後能夠提出精進的書面報告跟委員報告我們會後我們再做一些精進的報告說好再麻煩你那這一個項目合併凍結100萬好那院長說建議50萬嗎院長拿個麥克風吧"},{"start":30763.192,"end":30781.77,"text":"因為這是賺錢的行業 凍結的話五十象徵性讓故宮更精進我們其實現在一直都有在成長所以成長的話就鼓勵一下就是凍五十就好了好"},{"start":30783.924,"end":30812.259,"text":"業務成本與費用合併凍結50萬元並針對各凍結的提案之要求依審查會的決議提出書面報告時的凍資還是要麻煩故宮賺錢我們希望你賺更多提出精進的報告計畫讓我們知道一下接著處理故宮文物藝術發展基金之主決議提案案號7到9案7到9案"},{"start":30815.252,"end":30833.02,"text":"請問故宮可不可以好七到九案其中我兩案七案跟八案也獲得回應照案通過七至九故宮文物藝術發展基金處理完畢"},{"start":30837.848,"end":30859.054,"text":"審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響文藝前提下授權議事人員依115年度中央政府總預算審查報告與黨團協商之範例整理列入紀錄關於本日下午會議做如下決議115年度中央政府總預算有關於國立故宮博物院單位預算案國立"},{"start":30859.474,"end":30887.914,"text":"故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案均已審查完略對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料未及答覆的部分請相關機關盡速書面答覆報告委員會下午議程處理完畢現在散會我們請委員還有院長來到前面照張照"},{"start":30893.797,"end":30894.735,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":30910.547,"end":30912.148,"text":"好 謝謝大家 辛苦了"},{"start":30944.315,"end":30944.616,"text":"應該比較好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}