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主席委員已足法定人數我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第五會期交通委員會第十九次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年六月十七日星期三上午九十二分至十二時十四分六月十八日星期四上午九時至十時五十三分地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員陳素月等十四人月席委員鄭振淺等九人"},{"start":1448.118,"end":1472.283,"text":"列席官員6月17日國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信德交通部部長陳士凱等6月18日交通部政務次長吳聖元等主席黃昭吉委員建豪6月17日報告事項一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定通過覆議案一項二處理114年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算營業部分"},{"start":1474.683,"end":1501.269,"text":"關於交通部主管國營台灣鐵路股份有限公司預算凍結案計六案決定個案書面報告已送達均予以被查提報院會討論事項一至六繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於運安會交通部民航局單位預算附屬單位預算非營業部分關於民航事業作業基金營業部分關於淘機公司中華郵政公司台鐵公司營業預算"},{"start":1503.129,"end":1530.003,"text":"決議一本日預算審查結果照協商結論通過二本日通過之決議文字授權主席及醫事人員調整三第一案至第六案均審查完畢內容如審查結果國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算一稅務部分第二款第20項五列數第四款第21項照列第七款第21項五列數二稅出部分第二款第16項照列本項通過決議27項"},{"start":1531.764,"end":1547.348,"text":"交通部民用航空局單位預算一 稅務部分第二款第145項第三款第118項第四款第157項第七款第154項均照列二 稅出部分第14款第二項照列本項通過決議31項"},{"start":1549.949,"end":1558.794,"text":"附屬單位預算營業及分營業部分1.民航事業作業基金1.業務計畫1.審查結果隨同調整2.業務收支業務總收入改列為215億3547萬元業務總支出照列本期剩餘改列為65億8159萬3千元3.結繳供戶金額4.轉投資計畫均無列數5.固定資產建設改良擴充照列6.國庫增撥基金額"},{"start":1579.525,"end":1604.856,"text":"無列數 七 補辦預算照列八 通過決議十八項二 桃園國際機場股份有限公司一 業務計畫因應審查結果隨同調整二 營業收支營業總收入營業總支出稅前淨利均照列三 服務成本隨同審查結果調整四 轉投資計畫無列數五 重大之建設事業照列六 資金運用因應審查結果隨同調整"},{"start":1606.897,"end":1618.207,"text":"七 普辦預算照列八 通過決議二十項三 中華郵政股份有限公司依業務計劃因應審查結果隨從調整二 營業收支營業總收入改列為1745億4707萬9千元營業總支出改列為1684億4148萬9千元"},{"start":1627.395,"end":1644.989,"text":"税前淨利改列為六十億九千八百五十九萬元三服務成本隨同審查結果調整四轉投資計劃無劣數五重大支建設事業照列六資金運用一一審查結果隨同調整七補辦預算照列八通過決議三十一項"},{"start":1647.091,"end":1661.579,"text":"4.國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司1.業務計劃因應審查結果隨同調整2.營業收支營業總收入營業總支出稅前淨利均照列3.服務成本隨同審查結果調整4.轉投資計劃無劣數5.重大建設事業照列6.資金運用因應審查結果隨同調整7.通過決議29項6月18日討論事項12審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分"},{"start":1675.567,"end":1689.646,"text":"關於鐵道發展基金台鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金本日會議由交通部政務次長吳慎雲等報告後既有委員李坤澤等10人提出質詢軍經次長吳慎雲等及相關人員分別予以答覆"},{"start":1690.727,"end":1717.574,"text":"決議一報告及詢答完畢二委員黃建豪等六人所提書面諮詢均列入記錄並刊登公報三委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆四討論事項低案及低案均另定期進行處理委員預算提案於6月18日下午4時前截止收件通過臨時提案一項散會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1721.718,"end":1744.195,"text":"好 請問各位委員對醫事錄有沒有意見好 沒有 我們醫事錄確定那我現在先介紹在場委員首先邱若驊委員侯孟楷委員好 再介紹列席官員交通部政務次長 武聖元次長交通部快遞處黃宏文處長鐵道局楊振軍局長"},{"start":1750.365,"end":1778.061,"text":"鐵道局主計室陳康廷主任行政院主席總署公務預算處張振輝專委細菁預算處李政道科長我們現在進行討論事項交通部鐵道局及所屬通船會單案預算鐵道基金台鐵債務管理基金通船基金及有有限廣電基金非營業預算的處理我們現在進行協商同時請議事人員宣讀預算書及委員提案"},{"start":1821.755,"end":1831.181,"text":"好那我們現在先來協商我們這個交通部鐵道局及所屬單位預算稅入第一案有沒有委員在場呈現到委員的提案呈現委員不在齁但是問一下那個稅入增益五十萬沒問題那就召喚通過"},{"start":1852.278,"end":1877.636,"text":"交通部主管鐵道局提出說稅數幾萬元在第二案喔交通部主管第七項鐵道局提出說三百六十七萬元遵照辦理遵照辦理好 增列都可以嗎第一目一半行政是三億兩千五好 再補出稅數的部分三至五案六千零十萬四千元來 鐵道局先說明一下好了鐵道建設油管零兩億七千五百五十九萬五千元第四目鐵路重要交通工程三百一十一十五"},{"start":1878.316,"end":1904.486,"text":"跟委員報告第三案建議這個美語凍結因為這邊原來講的14年的這個出國預算到15年延續編列其實14年的時候出國預算是刪除所以這項計畫我們是延續到等於是延到115年再來辦理好那就感謝委員那本項是不是就建議把這個凍結預算的部分做刪除文資做調整謝謝"},{"start":1906.674,"end":1928.92,"text":"這個是這樣 因為你們有來溝通過啦所以這個部分我們就改組決議好不好我們3號辦的改組決議好那我們進入6到16案提案委員比較多齁總計一個41億看看各位委員各位委員有沒有意見徐副委員謝主席我提出第8案跟第9案"},{"start":1929.58,"end":1949.131,"text":"那第一包案是針對我們屏南觀光鐵道我想這個是對於我們整個屏南的觀光發展很重要的一個聯絡的一個幹線那我們也期待能夠加快施程那但是因為目前根據去年底交通部韓式的一個審查結果針對財務的狀況營運的狀況還有補貼的方式我想這個部分還有相關的一個釐清"},{"start":1955.595,"end":1967.299,"text":"那鐵道局現在辦理可行性研究的修正計畫作業中我想我們也要求交通部跟鐵道局應該要加快一個時程所以我提案凍結鐵道業務的預算數1000萬提出書面報告之後 使得凍資"},{"start":1971.32,"end":1995.169,"text":"那第九案有關於高鐵南延屏東的一個案子我想這也是有關完善屏東的一個交通發展的一個很重要的一個版圖也是軍營臺灣交通平權很重要的一環那但是因為目前在環評過程裡面也有許多的一個質疑跟問題存在我想交通部既然已經做這樣的一個南延的一個決定現在已經也核定了"},{"start":1995.549,"end":2013.852,"text":"那未來我想應該要針對這樣的一個問題點應該要盡快釐清避免外界的一個疑慮那也盡快來推動高鐵南延的一個時程能夠加快進行那我一樣提出凍結鐵道業務預算一千萬請鐵道局能夠加快時程並提出書面報告使得凍結"},{"start":2014.873,"end":2037.336,"text":"那另外補充第11件是王美惠委員的一個提案我代替她說明一下有鑒於高鐵嘉義站114年進出的旅客人數有高達681萬人次那但是因為目前對於這個高鐵嘉義站跟台鐵嘉義站之間的一個輕軌系統並還沒有建置那未來期待我們這個鐵道局"},{"start":2038.317,"end":2052.899,"text":"加快這個進度尤其目前還是停留在可行性研究的階段那一樣請這個鐵道局提出書面報告之後 使得動之一樣提出凍結的一個部分 謝謝好 謝謝 我們接下來請黃峰凱委員"},{"start":2062.265,"end":2077.933,"text":"本期題目是第16案其實跟我們召委第15案就類似那主要是針對我們相關的這個撥入資產跟債務管理基金的一個債務利息的部分那最主要看到就是說我們在這個預算中心"},{"start":2078.873,"end":2101.53,"text":"這邊也都有點出來說到目前為止這相關的一個回化資產運用還有四成未開發那到底這個速度的部分能不能再加快我想台鐵公司也已經成立了兩年多的時間了那其實當初當然最重要一定是安全安全準點這是重點那資產開發的部分你還是也要有這個計畫來做進行"},{"start":2103.231,"end":2123.761,"text":"所以等一下是不是也要說明一下那另外因為這是鐵道局跟交通部相關業務我想我也在這邊再詢問一下就是說有關高鐵的部分現在這兩天又看到民眾這個尤其當午連假之後這一味難求那甚至很多人講說現在高鐵民怨最高的並不是這個什麼這個"},{"start":2125.862,"end":2154.59,"text":"就買的到票是一回事啦但民怨更高的是現在是所有車廂尤其是連假時間或不要說連假禮拜五晚上南下的高鐵就一般車廂都開放自由坐來站立那禮拜天早上那也禮拜天回北上的也一堆一般車廂都開放自由坐民眾站立那當然就會引發兩派的爭議這網路上這兩天都吵得沸沸揚揚一派講說我是對號座那怎麼會現在高鐵品質越來越低落"},{"start":2155.746,"end":2170.434,"text":"一般車廂都有民眾站在走廊上但另外一派自由座一定會講是說我只要能夠到家就好了嘛那而且票價也才差幾十塊我覺得自由座跟對號座其實也才差幾十塊如果說以高雄到台北來講那也因此"},{"start":2171.634,"end":2199.109,"text":"追根究底回來就是高鐵車廂什麼時候要增加那我也知道說高鐵公司現在有密集安排可能7月底不知道說是不是部長也要前往日本要去做一個這個新車廂的一個接收那我們也看到現在的時程是2026年8月出廠那兩個月的海運來到台灣但最快上線2027年的第三季所以如果以現在來講的話我們還要期待一年半"},{"start":2200.049,"end":2225.035,"text":"左右時間才能有新的車廂上線那對於國人來講等於是說我們還要再忍受一年半所以我想也請教等一下再講一下說是不是現在的進度都持續的照常那有沒有可能有再往前努力的空間我想這也是幫所有南來北往通勤的民眾尤其使用高鐵的民眾來做一個請命好不好 以上謝謝好 謝謝孟凱我們現在請俊憲召委"},{"start":2227.736,"end":2253.531,"text":"好 謝謝主席關於我們很多委員的提案都是凍結案都是關於行車安全的問題本月份那個高鐵大霧點現在就那次的霧點造成國人高度的關注現在運安會不接受 不去調查這個案子運安會認為這不是重大的事故"},{"start":2254.648,"end":2279.696,"text":"所以高鐵的大霧點現在就轉由鐵道局要來調查了是不是那我是高度懷疑啦那以鐵道局的現在的技術能力還有你們的設備你有能力去調查高鐵就是這次霧點的相關事情嗎好這個大概請說明一下好那我們現在先請鐵道局補充"},{"start":2281.496,"end":2309.193,"text":"好謝謝各位委員的這個提問跟關切我們的相關的業務那首先回答剛剛我們副委員所關切的屏南觀光鐵道我想這個案子鐵道局會非常積極的來做辦理那委員也多次這個交委會到屏東的地方來做這個案子的考察那可行性研究現在正在跟交通部做審查意見之間的一個修正跟溝通當中那第二個是高鐵延伸屏東我想"},{"start":2310.033,"end":2332.049,"text":"高鐵延伸計畫不管是延伸宜蘭或者是延伸屏東在社會上確實都引起很多的意見跟討論那我想過去大概大家也能夠看到我們在高鐵延伸宜蘭的這個案子裡面其實我們對於各界的意見都有非常的積極來做溝通跟說明那最後也都能夠順利通過環評的這樣的一個審查"},{"start":2335.071,"end":2349.371,"text":"那我們有信心高鐵延伸屏東這個計畫我們現在按照我們的預定進度希望爭取在明年也就是116年底來通過環評的二階審查那目前一切的作業進度都按照我們的規劃當中"},{"start":2351.494,"end":2371.709,"text":"那至於剛剛我們這個應該是孟愷委員提到的這個常債基金的這個債務的償還的進度問題那鐵道局承接這個台鐵公司化之後過去的歷史債務1600"},{"start":2374.911,"end":2396.479,"text":"96億啦那這個事實上這個是一個非常龐大的這樣的一個債務的這樣一個規模到目前為止是進入第三年整個常債計畫是30年那過去所承接的台鐵的對應的資產我想大家也都清楚就現在的鐵道博物館高雄的這個臨港線還有台北車站的112的都更開發區"},{"start":2400.081,"end":2421.49,"text":"那剛剛講的鐵道博物館跟高雄的這個臨港的這樣的一個地都是被劃定為所謂的歷史古蹟其實它的使用上面是有限制的那非常感謝委員會跟大院的支持我們在今年已經通過就是台鐵公司設置條例的修正讓台北機場的容積可以做移轉"},{"start":2422.13,"end":2446.14,"text":"那我們現在正在建立相關的執法處分作業程序跟規則當中所以現階段我們的資產活化 也就是資產處分之後來還債的進度其實符合原來我們常債計畫 也就是前面低後面高前幾年我們確實是需要先建置相關的作業程序 請委員能夠量查"},{"start":2447.02,"end":2465.065,"text":"那第二點提到的是高鐵的這個擁擠的問題那跟委員報告目前是七月底這個新車第一列要做出廠的動作預期在八月中旬就可以到台灣八月中旬到台灣那按照我們目前跟高鐵公司的掌握進度應該是有機會"},{"start":2466.525,"end":2490.593,"text":"可以比委員剛剛說的116年的第三季還要更為提前我們希望高鐵公司可以朝明年年中的這樣的一個目標來讓新車能夠陸續上線那提早解除這樣的一個自由座擁擠跟站立的這樣的一個問題那新車全部上線之後我們可以增加大概25%的運能那我相信這個部分應該是有幫助"},{"start":2492.528,"end":2506.458,"text":"剛剛我們郡縣委員所指教的就是高鐵大霧點的調查其實鐵道局跟運安會本來就針對鐵道事故裡面的不同程度分別設有調查的組織鐵道局也是設有調查委員會"},{"start":2508.78,"end":2523.457,"text":"按照鐵路法56條之6我們就運安會調查的部分的事故或事件會進行調查那過去在調查過程當中除了外部的學者專家組成的委員會之外那如果"},{"start":2523.817,"end":2548.629,"text":"預有技術上或者是比如說集電工的材料或者是這一次的這個轉測器的電源供應器的這個部分需要做技術上材料上面的鑑定的時候我們會委託專業機構比如說像工研院的這個金屬中心或者是高科大或者是鐵研中心他們都有相關的實驗室可以來幫我們的這個儀器做這個設備上面的還原狀態的瞭解"},{"start":2552.651,"end":2578.833,"text":"那我相信這個組織已經運作非常的一段時間了這個調查委員會應該是也是有相當的這樣的一個能量來做處理我想先跟委員做這樣的一個說明跟報告我先請教一下五次長就是昨天深夜這個新竹桃園高鐵"},{"start":2580.955,"end":2597.684,"text":"這個電力跳脫造成是班列車的延誤這個你們有掌握這個狀況嗎這個我們有掌握這個狀況但是細節上面還沒有做進一步的了解因為它事實上這個影響的時間數非常少"},{"start":2602.046,"end":2614.4,"text":"也影響5至10分鐘整個車廂的黑暗造成民眾的不便我首先要提一下我們現在有34組的列車新的列車有12組"},{"start":2620.366,"end":2634.841,"text":"列車進來之後還是要做相關的測試以及這樣的一個在營運之前的一個準備的工作其實能夠提前如果"},{"start":2636.022,"end":2663.28,"text":"相關的安全以及相關的運作都能夠正常的話能夠體檢這對紓解目前的這樣的一個人潮旅客人次是會有提升的幫助那我們現在大概平時都有24萬人次的這樣的一個搭乘那在廉價甚至有時候會超過30萬那的確像我們搭高鐵"},{"start":2666.523,"end":2685.017,"text":"北高這樣之間的開會其實在看到這樣的一個人潮無法有效的疏解這個很多旅客大家在相關的車廂站立這個我們也都站過好幾次就沒有票就是沒有票"},{"start":2686.878,"end":2708.448,"text":"這個要盡快的來做處理但是更重要的就是效率我們上次的大霧點因為這個插刀系統相關的電力模組產生問題那又看到昨天晚上有事半列車桃園新竹路段因為電力異常又停駛了五分鐘這個"},{"start":2711.73,"end":2731.969,"text":"市長跟局長針對高鐵目前營運的效率這些電力異常或者是相關的訊號異常這個都會讓民眾產生疑慮它不只是霧點的問題而且也會對安全產生疑慮這個你們要去督促"},{"start":2732.609,"end":2759.194,"text":"那我有13案跟14案13案就是我們鐵道局的鐵道業務它向下的一個鐵道業務規劃及管理預算是編列617萬元那業務的重要工作目標就是要讓各計畫標案可以如期的完成它重要的是要落實安慰管理的這樣的一個措施"},{"start":2760.694,"end":2782.564,"text":"降低之災的發生達到公安零事故零災害的這個重要的目標但是我們看相關的統計鐵道局及所屬辦理之鐵道工程還是持續有公安事件的一個發生那鐵道局應該積極的作為訂定目標訂定降災減災的積極量化的一個目標"},{"start":2785.225,"end":2806.953,"text":"那2021到2024我看每年都有鐵道局工程發生重大的質災這個要注意那凍結預算50萬元一個月內應該要如何積極提升鐵道工程職業安全衛生向加裝委員會提出書面報告後解凍"},{"start":2808.013,"end":2826.519,"text":"另外第14案是鐵道業務的規劃及管理也編列預算671萬鐵道局重要的工作當然是包括增進鐵道的行車安全依據交通部的統計"},{"start":2828.823,"end":2848.5,"text":"台鐵公司以及高鐵的鐵路行車事故事件它其實並沒有明顯的下降這個鐵道局應該要加強督導定義明確目標保障行車安全我們看台鐵的行車事故事件異常"},{"start":2850.081,"end":2854.862,"text":"2023年777件,2024年1009件,2025年864件高鐵行程事故事件異常這三項,2023年36件,2024年27件"},{"start":2870.127,"end":2897.769,"text":"2025年43件那我就先凍結預算10萬元一個月內提出書面報告後就是要降低鐵道行車事故事件向交通委員會提出書面報告以上好 謝謝崑哲委員那我也說明一下我的第六案那第六案之前開過協調會也再次跟你講過就是我們台中高鐵站因為這個鐵道局土地都鐵道局了那那邊有一個招商的計畫我現在也開發也標出去了"},{"start":2898.59,"end":2925.258,"text":"那也正在蓋我想目前為止雖然商場沒有成型但是現在現階段這個交通瓶頸已經造成那未來如果這個所謂這個大型商場也落成之後我想周邊整個交通瓶頸會非常的嚴重所以我們在席談會的時候也希望說這個鐵道局交通部能夠卓以補助一部分的這個可能性前期的計畫那後續的工程面等等的再由大家共同來評估看怎麼支出嘛"},{"start":2925.858,"end":2942.806,"text":"所以想問一下這個在處理之前也來一下這個目前協調完之後的目前的進度好不好 以上請綜合回應 謝謝那個感謝坤澤委員剛剛的指導我想安全當然是我們最重要的一個目標那鐵道局不管是在自己的這個相關的工程上面"},{"start":2944.997,"end":2974.477,"text":"有導入所謂的安全管理系統那過去我們在對於我們施工所造成的台鐵行車事故事件有明顯的下降經由這個系統之後那在去年只有發生兩件但是在職業安全衛生也就是我們相關的這個現場工作人員相關的職安的部分還是我們現在重點的一個努力目標那非常感謝委員的這個提案我們會來加強那第二個就是有關台鐵跟高鐵的相關安全"},{"start":2975.117,"end":2996.49,"text":"那其實交通部頒有國家鐵路安全計畫分有三層的這樣的一個安全指標包括第一層是車載人員的零死亡第二層是重大事故的發生率第三層是相關的這些事件的發生率那過去確實高鐵跟台鐵在第三層是有超過我們的這樣的一個指標要求"},{"start":2997.19,"end":3019.573,"text":"那我們都定有完整的監理工作包括檢查包括事故的調查包括這一個安全管理系統的這樣的一個確認跟落實我想這部分我們會按照委員的指導持續來加強那安全是沒有止境的這樣一個工作我們會持續來努力那剛剛我們召委所提到的台七四線這一個閘道的部分"},{"start":3020.194,"end":3036.254,"text":"非常感謝那天召委特地出面否則的話過去我們鐵道局這個平台會議始終一直沒有辦法因為公務局跟我們是平行機關我們並沒有辦法去左右或是做太多的這樣的一個指導那一天非常感謝委員的這樣的一個協調總算"},{"start":3037.775,"end":3056.418,"text":"這個案子現在是有一個明確的方向也就是說由台中市政府交通局來辦理可信性研究那公路局來協助審查鐵道局來這個按照這個相關的要點去給予補助的這樣的一個經費那也跟召委報告我事後已經有跟部長做過報告那部長也表示支持"},{"start":3057.099,"end":3067.275,"text":"所以我想這個我們可以照這個順序來去往下進行那後續就台中市政府交通局提出來的話我們就會這個循正式程序來去做這個簽附跟這個這個這個後續的補償作業補貼作業抱歉"},{"start":3074.3,"end":3089.462,"text":"我是再補充一下 剛剛李根澤委員提到剛剛詢問高鐵的那個電力異常問題我想這邊報告我們今天高鐵其實會有一個群組包括台鐵都一樣有一個事故的一個群組所以只要一些發生異常大概群組我們都可以看得到"},{"start":3090.063,"end":3103.808,"text":"那昨天這個案子我們是可以掌握那只是現在剛講因為他的影響不是那麼大但是這個不是說大小的問題後續我想我們這個還會再關切那至於剛講的不管是台鐵或是高鐵鐵道局這邊的"},{"start":3105.568,"end":3129.477,"text":"沿線施工的部分或是它的行車上的問題其實在剛剛提到的鐵道局它本身有一個所謂的事故事件調查小組以外另外我們部裡面針對鐵道局的部分另外針對台鐵的部分幾個案件我們會依照它的大小由我這邊來召開會議來了解這整個一個情況那也當然會請我們的建議單位鐵道局"},{"start":3130.417,"end":3135.102,"text":"針對他必須的部分的一個事項這是強烈的要求以上做補充 謝謝"},{"start":3138.351,"end":3161.977,"text":"好 謝謝次長 各位委員回覆都可以喔好 那我們來處理一下六當十六案總共是四十一億六千零一十萬四千元喔那各位委員都有提前凍結案問題凍結案的主因當然是說督促啦也沒有要刪你們預算啦就督促就是很多地方上的建設跟什麼高鐵跟台鐵的服務品只要提升喔那我想這樣我們卓宇凍結好不好五千萬"},{"start":3163.957,"end":3184.81,"text":"跟莊委報告啦 因為現在已經是六月了等到整個程序完成 恐怕已經要過七八月然後我們順便報告再進來這個凍結數後面會怕程序上來不及啦是不是可以再幫我們這個拙減一點因為剛剛大家委員的這個提案的的意旨 我想我們都會遵照來辦理是不是可以幫我們凍三"},{"start":3192.415,"end":3206.852,"text":"三千萬啊 謝謝謝謝啦 謝謝委員謝謝趙委員 我們一定努力來辦理放開委員 我有話要講這樣子啦 不是啦這也不是說這個打價還價這樣子有點奇怪我覺得"},{"start":3209.415,"end":3235.417,"text":"既然剛剛委員都已經有表達意見那其實最重要也是說要這個安全的一個部分那我想也尊重剛剛昭偉已經有發言不然是不是昭偉我們折衷啦我覺得我們也不要說幾千萬就一趴啦好不好這個總第二幕其實有41億那你跟我們講是說雖然這個現在六月可是我不認為是說你有99%可以用你還沒有辦法運用那凍結一趴啦好不好"},{"start":3240.502,"end":3259.74,"text":"有些案子是那個陳慶榮委員那因為他沒有辦法趕過來那他特地要我說我有跟他們溝通過包括第1案第12案第24案還有第20案那我們都有跟陳慶榮委員做過溝通那他也支持就是最後召委的這樣的一個處理謝謝"},{"start":3261.26,"end":3282.405,"text":"好 謝謝楊局長那我們這個6到16萬第二幕鐵道業務部分這41億6千零10萬4千億的部分我們就凍結一趴提出書面報告耗時的動值那我們一個月內提報告可以嗎好另外我補充說明一下那個第三到五萬我剛可能表達沒很清楚第三到五萬就都改組決議書面報告我再宣告一次這樣"},{"start":3284.325,"end":3303.595,"text":"記錄比較清楚 尤其是第四案改組決議然後改書面報告因為那個外媒林委員特別有他簽出來了 好 謝謝好在我們看第17案到第22案國家鐵道建設管理的部分總共是兩億七千五百五十九萬部分"},{"start":3309.978,"end":3327.077,"text":"好 因為我想前面有溝通過了齁這個在17案、18案、21案跟22案都改成主決議那看看現場委員有沒有其他要表示意見許委員有嗎19案好"},{"start":3332.499,"end":3348.297,"text":"謝主席 我提出第19案針對我們屏東潮州道訪寮這個路段那目前還是屬於一個單軌那車輛調度這個運作困難也造成一個使用乘客的一個不方便那我想我們提到局也提出了"},{"start":3348.777,"end":3370.018,"text":"南圍鐵路線型改善跟平井路段的雙軌化的一個案子那我們非常感謝不過因為這個時程還是比較慢一點那因為鐵道局現在才在辦理綜合規劃技術的一個招標的一個作業我想這也是我們平南地區很重要的一個交通的一個軌道建設那我們也期待鐵道局能夠加快時程"},{"start":3370.839,"end":3381.455,"text":"要是我提出凍結國家鐵道建設及管理預算一千萬那也請鐵道局加快施程那我們在一個月內提出書面報告時的凍資好謝謝"},{"start":3384.471,"end":3405.721,"text":"好 謝謝徐委員第22案那個賴慧雯委員請我幫她做一個提案說明有鑒於台南市後壁車站這個是百年的一個日式的木造車站具有很重要的文化資產的一個價值那因為歷經了113年到現在歷經了多次的颱風跟豪雨的影響造成車站的污瓦"},{"start":3406.181,"end":3433.387,"text":"木結構跟外觀的一個受損那目前只是局部的一個修復維持一個營運我想這個有結構安全跟文資保存的一個必要性那所以這個部分也請鐵道局這個能夠盡快提出一個具體的一個修復時程加快推動所以他提出凍結五百萬那請三個月內提出書面報告時的凍置好 謝謝好 謝謝徐副委員好 其他委員沒有那我們請這個鐵道局楊局長"},{"start":3436.701,"end":3455.151,"text":"好謝謝貴委員的這個發言剛剛提到南回的這個中規案我們現在正在辦理招標準備作業當中會非常積極的辦理預計下半年就能夠完成決標啟動相關的作業那屆時也會跟屏東縣政府還有跟委員這邊來溝通我們作業過程當中相關的規劃內容"},{"start":3456.972,"end":3477.092,"text":"那第22案提到賴會員所提的這個後避車站因為目前這個車站的管理狀態其實是台鐵公司鐵道局並沒有相關的計畫或者是職權去做修復的這樣的一個工程是不是我們建議把文字做修正請交通部鐵道局協請台鐵公司"},{"start":3477.972,"end":3504.41,"text":"就這個這個這個相關的修繕作業來做後續的處理那也建議是不是就改組建一面與凍結謝謝那個委員已經同意了有跟賴委員溝通三十九案的話剛剛徐委員提的部分你們的施程跟學員說明那個南回的招標作業我們下半年就可以啟動這個實質的工作剛剛有跟委員報告"},{"start":3507.674,"end":3511.672,"text":"好那這樣的話因為這都是大部分都改組決議了那我們就"},{"start":3514.847,"end":3538.335,"text":"17-22案我們就都改組決議那提出報告那尤其是像徐委員特別提到的他本來要動你一千萬的這個要跟徐委員去說明一下你們那個南迴鐵路的進度我們會跟委員再做報告不然我還是要提醒一下很快要進入下半年了是是是那個準備作業都在做了馬上就會開塞子招標"},{"start":3538.755,"end":3551.141,"text":"好那我們就這樣處理啦我們就這部分17-22案我們都提改成主決議那請交通請鐵道局提書面報告一個月後實得動之好謝謝順道辦理"},{"start":3565.268,"end":3590.065,"text":"好 我們現在進入23案到39案 總共310億那請問各位委員那個 李寬哲委員好 謝謝昭偉那鐵道局是鐵道的一個監理的機關那他應該要督促鐵道機構的維繫相關的鐵道的安全但是我們看到台鐵公司"},{"start":3591.486,"end":3611.118,"text":"還是會發生因為鐵道局辦理的工程影響而導致行車異常事件的一個發生那鐵道局應該是要加強改善那杜絕因為鐵道工程失功而影響鐵路的一個行車安全這在過去"},{"start":3612.119,"end":3625.591,"text":"案例太多了那應該訂定具體的一個改善的指標跟因應的作為其實我們看到台鐵公司的資料2025年的3月11月12月"},{"start":3627.572,"end":3651.866,"text":"各發生一次的噪音的狀況就是因為鐵道局的行車異常鐵道局所造成的那我提出凍結預算一千萬那一個月內提出書面報告後解凍好 謝謝崑哲委員接下來我們請徐副委員徐副委員發言完之後請洪孟凱孟凱委員發言完之後請許智傑"},{"start":3654.673,"end":3671.569,"text":"謝主席我提出第二三案那我想我們目前屏東縣政府跟高雄市捷運局已經在推動我們高雄捷運紅線的一個延伸的一個計畫那未來會從我們的小港延伸到林邊我想這個是屏東縣第一條的一個捷運系統"},{"start":3672.19,"end":3686.869,"text":"那目前我想還是有一些問題存在那這部分我們除了要求交通部應該盡快跟高雄市政府跟屏東縣政府來討論然後盡快提出這個解決方案之外我想未來也應該去針對我們屏東"},{"start":3687.99,"end":3714.893,"text":"未來我們有科學園區還有東港潮州我們未來這個都會的一個發展應該要開闢其他的一個捷運的一個規劃我想這個是整合我們屏東大眾運輸的一個重要的一個骨幹也是未來對於屏東縣整體的一個發展很重要的一個地方的一個需求那所以我想這部分我們先提案凍結鐵路重要交通工程預算一千萬那這部分請鐵道局"},{"start":3715.353,"end":3744.327,"text":"在三個月內能夠提出相關的一個報告 使得動之好 謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請黃峰凱委員好 感謝本席提了26案跟32跟33那主要幾個部分還是請鐵道局這邊來努力尤其是26案桃園機場捷運開通到現在將近10年的時間2017年到2026年那這10年裡面其實我們也陸續看到有延伸中立站"},{"start":3744.827,"end":3759.522,"text":"那也有在今年配合第三航廈的A14站也要在新社站但過去在這個整個沿線上面我們有預留A2A站跟A5A站一個是在三重地區一個是在泰山新莊地區那"},{"start":3761.083,"end":3780.108,"text":"這個進度遲遲沒有那其實鐵道局從一開始本期進來到立法院的時候就已經跟我們講是說因為當時招標的桃園機場捷運的系統商破產倒閉也因此就變成是說我現在沒有找到原本的系統商那如果說要的話也要再重新再更換整個系統"},{"start":3780.808,"end":3804.235,"text":"那但是這不只是A2A站跟A5A站的新設站沒有辦法進行連更重要的是在2019年2020年當時行政院有編列40億左右要新購置桃園機場捷運的車廂經費也都因為系統沒有辦法融合而導致桃園機場捷運的車廂經費沒有辦法新購置那後來又不了了之"},{"start":3805.115,"end":3825.11,"text":"所以本席提出來這個案件已經是老問題了至少我每年幾乎都會講但是我必須要看到進度也因此我講的是說鐵道局是不是找地方政府因為現在機場捷運的主管機關營運單位是桃園市政府的捷運公司"},{"start":3826.491,"end":3846.322,"text":"這一個機場捷運有中央出資有地方出資所以也有桃園市政府、新北市政府、台北市政府跟中央單位所以還是要有一個統合大家來討論到底我們如果說真的沒有辦法穿著西裝改西裝那什麼時候能夠再做一個系統的更新還是能夠怎麼解決"},{"start":3847.242,"end":3864.825,"text":"因為錢榮雪本席提醒其實局長你也很了解現在我們延伸中立站的最後那兩站其實是用手動的方式去改所以長期下來也不是一個安全之計我想我們都是站在安全的角度跟專業的角度來看"},{"start":3865.245,"end":3885.581,"text":"所以這個問題勢必還是要解決你現在沒有辦法解決五年後還是要解決十年後還是要解決那本席現在也講了說不是我現在馬上叫你今天研究明天解決而是你至少你要有一個規劃時程出來什麼時候要來解決好不好那以上那再麻煩 謝謝好 謝謝孟愷委員接下來請許志傑委員"},{"start":3889.624,"end":3889.784,"text":"鐵道檢修"},{"start":3907.719,"end":3924.794,"text":"你們有應用AI進去使用嗎?或者是使用的狀況如何?那現在就是包括旗鼓跟新左營站的檢修站都曾經發生過公安事件那這個部分想了解一下你們應用的狀況到什麼程度怎麼改善?謝謝"},{"start":3927.457,"end":3947.69,"text":"今天主席我提出的是第27案提出凍結2000萬 主要是針對桃園鐵路地下化的各年度預算諮詢率欠佳那在上一次詢答中有向局長了解到那目前主體的土建標案是因為營建市場飽和還有缺工缺料上漲因素等因素多次流標"},{"start":3949.911,"end":3964.68,"text":"所以導致整體的進度不如預期加上部分用地取得延宕已經直接影響了後續的工程進行推動雖然這些外部的因素固然存在可是不能只是以市場環境作為理由應該要更積極地檢討招標"},{"start":3966.221,"end":3990.771,"text":"的招標的條件然後還有物價調整還有風險預警機制避免一樣的工程反覆留包持續展延那因此我這邊我是同意提我們鐵道局提出書面報告也請更詳細的在上一次像魯明哲委員還有萬美玲委員我們都有提出像針對幾個站體的招標進度那也在也請鐵道局在報告中可以詳細的說明好以上謝謝"},{"start":3993.042,"end":4002.09,"text":"謝謝主席我在這邊所提的是第24案針對我們提到的潛水計畫這邊我在這邊也明確的指出我們有幾項的一個"},{"start":4014.479,"end":4037.454,"text":"提出建設計畫遭遭一個工程的一個延宕的一個情況那這樣的延宕情況那也在這裡是請我們鐵道局這邊能夠提出這個書面報告那當然我在這邊原來我是終結30%然後30%那這裡我也同意"},{"start":4043.479,"end":4057.214,"text":"改成詢問報告那中檢預算改成10%那也期待我們鐵道局針對我在這裡所提的包括有四個工程"},{"start":4058.035,"end":4074.114,"text":"那延長的部分這個部分請我們鐵道局趕快來研議來在進度上有所改善好 以上 謝謝好 我們先請教科書鐵道局這邊先回應各位的疑問"},{"start":4075.455,"end":4094.086,"text":"感謝各位的這個意見我是不是就按照提案順序來跟大家做回答23到39案的這個311的預算其實主要是鐵道局剛剛大家所關切的工程計畫包括潮幣計畫、花東計畫、憑證"},{"start":4097.348,"end":4117.575,"text":"還有嘉義跟台南這些工程的實質上面的工程預算所以這個是我們全國各地的相關工程預算那至於23案就是我們剛剛副委員所提到的這個屏東的相關的捷運的這樣的一個規劃那鐵道局有收到這樣的一個關切的訊息"},{"start":4118.675,"end":4139.72,"text":"那對於特別是高雄捷運延伸到這個零元當港零邊的這條路線我們也積極的在協調高雄市政府的捷運工程局跟這個屏東縣政府當中那也提供相關的專業上面的意見希望能夠促成這個計畫能夠往前走我想這個案子我們會積極來做處理"},{"start":4141.34,"end":4161.462,"text":"那24案剛剛我們陳慶紅委員所指教的我們四個主要的計畫是不是還有招標延宕等等的這樣的一個問題那其實目前包括剛剛我們那個若華委員所提到的逃遞其實目前我們都沒有標案還在反覆的流標當中"},{"start":4163.344,"end":4188.602,"text":"其實桃地計畫已經核定的這個預算額度裡面我們四個主要的工程主體標桃園車站、中路車站、中壢車站跟平鎮其實都已經決標了在113年就已經決標那後續的這些標案現在沒有辦法招標其實主要是修正計畫沒有通過所以我的預算額度還沒有辦法支用到這個要超過的部分"},{"start":4189.443,"end":4217.896,"text":"那花東的部分呢 修建計畫通過之後我們最近也算是順利在做招標作業當中那平鎮臨時站的計畫現在執行都已經到90%多我們預計在10月份就能夠來做啟用那目前來看的話是嘉峪市區的高架計畫也是全部都是絕標的狀態但全部都在趕工的過程當中所以我想這個我們再來提書面的報告跟委員做完整的這樣的一個說明"},{"start":4218.797,"end":4223.588,"text":"那第26案我們孟海委員特別關切 我知道這議題關切非常久"},{"start":4226.457,"end":4248.291,"text":"A14跟延伸到中壢它是原系統就已經有耗製的這樣的一個建制A22A跟A5A是原系統沒有耗製上面的相關的建制包括軌道所以縱使原廠商來也沒有辦法在營運中去做這樣的一個事情所以幾乎要透過一個重製的作業來去做處理"},{"start":4249.372,"end":4267.911,"text":"那非常了解就是委員希望我們提出一個這個計畫上次委員這個關切的時候我們在今年一月份就有找桃園市政府來做溝通那希望他們能夠提出相關的這個重置的規劃跟期程那我們鐵道局這邊會表示支持"},{"start":4268.371,"end":4286.092,"text":"因為過去我們就正式跟他表達過你要提前把系統作業重置我們是支持的但是桃園市政府目前還是沒有提出來我想這個我們會持續來跟他們做溝通那這個作業我想也感謝委員的多數我們充分了解這個地方的這個部分的需求"},{"start":4288.354,"end":4304.782,"text":"那27案剛剛就有病案跟入行委員做過報告那28案感謝坤澤委員的這個關切就是鐵道局的靈鬼施工有沒有造成台鐵的行車的異常過去我們一年大概都會造成十多件的"},{"start":4305.422,"end":4333.357,"text":"因為施工影響到台鐵的行車那從113年開始我們已經透過安全管理系統113年是四件114年是兩件對不起112年四件113年兩件114年也是兩件今年到目前為止我們應該還是有守著這個相當的這樣的一個紀錄我想這個是沒有止境的工作非常感謝委員的這個指導隨時都要督促我們那我們也會隨時的努力來去做"},{"start":4334.117,"end":4354.313,"text":"這個安全上面的這個努力然後第37案是我們剛剛智捷委員關切的這個我們有沒有應用AI在我們相關的這些業務上面鐵道局今年透過交通部的一個同意的3750萬的案子"},{"start":4355.974,"end":4377.066,"text":"我們正在建置我們的AI生態系那包括我們的基礎設施包括導入這個NVIDIA的這個GPU所以預期我們在明年開始可以把這個AI的實務應用的用在我們工地的相關的安全的這個檢查作業上面我想這個部分就附帶跟大家做一個報告"},{"start":4381.072,"end":4404.891,"text":"好各位委員沒有補充意見都回應到我們的意見好那我們就來處理這個29到3323到39案的部分我想都有人都有提相關的凍結案那因為這個也是各地方的一些建設類的部分所以可能進度上還是要請鐵道局掌握一下這個工程的進度那確實回應委員的需求"},{"start":4406.232,"end":4416.516,"text":"那因為提的數字非常多種我們這樣子啦我們同意一樣同意處理啦310億的部分我們就是凍結百分之一喔 百分之一那一樣一個月內提順便報告來解凍一趴而已"},{"start":4431.721,"end":4460.155,"text":"那因為工程部分用的很多我建議啦齁 剛剛講什麼可以用三千萬因為裡面其實很多 兩千一千萬都有我建議用三千萬下去做啦因為後面其他工程要去做那這個書面報告我們還是會做啦好 那就三千萬反正我是要你提報告的主要提報告 好 三千萬好 就現在我們來處理再宣告二三二三二三九案的部分喔這個鐵路中央交通工程的部分我們凍結三千萬"},{"start":4461.115,"end":4472.802,"text":"那提書面報告一個月內提書面報告時的動之我們接下來處理第40案到第56案這個主決議的部分"},{"start":4481.168,"end":4482.349,"text":"建議這個倒數第三"},{"start":4500.789,"end":4515.185,"text":"自動即時警示系統修正為影像風險自動檢視系統以確保修正為提高施工人員安全那中間幾個字刪除不如三個月內針對影像風險自動檢視系統提出書面報告"},{"start":4522.093,"end":4548.066,"text":"好 邱委員要補充嗎你的45案你簽了這個委員之前有簽名 謝謝好 那就照案修正後通過好 那46案46案一樣建議修改文字之前也得到委員同意修改那最後一段交通部鐵道局應促請地方政府協同相關單位改為促請地方政府針對捷運路網"},{"start":4550.987,"end":4571.598,"text":"鐵道改為捷運倒數第二行進行跨部會整合把跨部會做刪除並於三個月內三個月內這個部分文字做刪除那最後一行市佔率之具體行動難途之具體行動難途文字做刪除增加於三個月內向立法院交通委員會提出書面報告"},{"start":4573.319,"end":4591.888,"text":"好我把那個文字整理和宣告一下好了這邊我補充一下因為鐵豆子這邊後續也有來說明嘛那因為是你們有說到這個地方的捐運網路還有公車接駁系統是地方政府的權責所以我只有在要求這邊三個月內改一個月內書面報告"},{"start":4596.61,"end":4619.645,"text":"我重新宣讀一下剛剛更改到的文字交通部鐵道局應促請地方政府針對捷運路網與地方公車接駁系統之無縫轉乘進行整合提升軌道運輸市佔率以達成淨零碳排斥政策目標並於一個月內向立法院交通委員會提出疏通報告"},{"start":4621.445,"end":4648.436,"text":"好我們就修正通過再47案遵照辦理48案遵照辦理49遵照辦理50遵照辦理好51遵照辦理5252做文字修正最後一行專案報告改書面報告好我們修正通過53一樣專案報告改書面報告"},{"start":4648.996,"end":4669.311,"text":"好 我們修正通過好 54 遵照辦理55 遵照辦理56 遵照辦理好好 那我們在115年度總預算案交通部鐵道局及所屬單位預算我們審查完畢"},{"start":4676.345,"end":4696.038,"text":"好因為我是同同圓滿人滿嘛那我們就繼續審查我們繼續審查這個一百一十五度總預算的鐵道發展基金我們先看第一案凍結案是由徐委員徐會委員提案的這個業務成本費用部分"},{"start":4702.745,"end":4710.93,"text":"好謝謝主席我想鐵道基金在112跟113年度編列了1.62億跟1.3億用來捐助國內團體辦理鐵道產業的一個研發檢測一個發展計畫那目前為止都還沒有致用"},{"start":4719.034,"end":4731.925,"text":"那鐵道局的說明是因為我們目前鐵道檢測環境跟相關的法規還是屬於一個初狀的一個階段造成這個計畫推動這個受阻所以我想這部分經過溝通我提案凍結業務成本及費用1000萬"},{"start":4734.767,"end":4750.823,"text":"那請鐵道局加快整個一個相關法規跟技術環境的一個時程那對於我們未來能夠建置一個所謂的一個鐵道檢測跟驗證的一個能量我想這也是加速確保我們的一個交通安全 謝謝好 謝謝徐委員"},{"start":4754.56,"end":4769.538,"text":"這個提到我也覺得剛剛許委員這樣提出來我也覺得有一個疑問等一下提到一起說明就是如果這個法規各方面的環境還沒有準備好然後就變成這個錢那沒辦法執行啊當然會有問題嘛所以請提到一起說明一下好"},{"start":4770.819,"end":4788.046,"text":"跟那個柯委員報告因為剛剛提到的112跟113就是我們當年有編列1.62億跟1.3億那作為鐵道產業的相關的補助那確實當時我們在預算的編列上面跟腳步上面是有一點沒有搭配"},{"start":4789.146,"end":4811.883,"text":"但是要跟大家報告這個鐵道產業的整體補助在114年我們的執行率已經到92%換句話說已經有上來今年到5月為止執行率大概也有到74%所以相關的前面的潮創期比較不穩定的狀況我想已經慢慢在做排除"},{"start":4812.783,"end":4836.479,"text":"那這一項這個是不是特別拜託因為第一項的這個部分這個可能會跟後面的部分有一些疊加的作用是不是可以懇請委員給我們支持我們後面再動這個案子再凍結的話可能會比較有影響好那就提出我們一個書面報告改組決議好不好好感謝委員感謝好那我們就這個案就改組決議"},{"start":4841.712,"end":4849.776,"text":"我們第一案動機案改組決議現在處理第二到十七案看看各位提案委員有沒有什麼意見"},{"start":4857.141,"end":4870.933,"text":"謝謝主席 本席提議第七案第七案主要是我們業務費用其中有一筆補助費用有6億1345萬主要是來補助我們的政府機關國內大專院校團體進行鐵道發展和監理相關規劃研究作業"},{"start":4879.72,"end":4894.016,"text":"但我看我們這幾年的執行率都不是很好那是不是請讓你這個預算還越拚越多你執行率都七成多了所以2024年只有三成多"},{"start":4895.217,"end":4906.111,"text":"那資金率都七八成那你預算還每一年都特別把它提高所以我是提凍結案凍結10%那請你提報告那這個部分也是為大家請鐵造局說明一下"},{"start":4912.298,"end":4929.669,"text":"謝謝主席那我在這邊總共提了三案包括第九案第十一案跟第十二案那其實整個這個"},{"start":4932.451,"end":4948.947,"text":"都是一樣都是我們的業務費用包括我們對國內團體的一個補助案其中在這裡第九案跟第十一案我們經過了解也溝通"},{"start":4952.015,"end":4978.301,"text":"這邊是同意啦可以改成書面報告那原來的比如說第九案的一個三節三千萬我同意改冬節那冬節一數由主席這邊來決定那第十一案一樣我也同意改成書面報告那冬節一數一樣由主席這邊來做決定那有關"},{"start":4979.321,"end":5000.266,"text":"第十二案他所編列的一個一樣的一個補助經驗那金僚姐最主要是國內團體都是我們國內各縣市政府金融公司的一個申請補助案那這個部分金僚姐詳細的一個使用那我在這邊協調"},{"start":5003.314,"end":5013.92,"text":"我們鐵道發展基金這邊也同意三減三百萬那這個部分那我在這邊這個是經過我們協調的一個三減數額那請主席這邊也能夠來支持那以上說明謝謝"},{"start":5025.1,"end":5046.599,"text":"好 謝謝陳其農委員好 其他委員 暫時沒有那我們先請我們將問問題到你這邊先回應好 謝謝剛剛幾位委員的這個寶貴意見那首先是剛剛我們據縣委員所提到的我們鐵道發展基金所編列的六億多跟委員報告這個六億多裡面包括了"},{"start":5047.899,"end":5064.208,"text":"有幾個主要項目 第一個是我們高鐵在這個雲林跟彰化地區的地層下線所以我們去補助沿線兩側的農民改作漢作等於是節水上面那我們就會給他相關的補助"},{"start":5064.688,"end":5091.519,"text":"那每一年都是編固定的預算因為農民的申請有時候會有所不同啦所以有時候執行率會偏低啦有時候他因為市場的價格他還是寧願不要補助而去做了其他的這些倒做那第二個是當然是剛剛大家所關切的這個產業研發上面的這些補助工作那如同剛剛前面所說明前兩年確實執行率偏低但是去年我們已經執行率來到92%"},{"start":5093.24,"end":5119.011,"text":"那第三個跟台南有關係第三個我們補助了這一個台南市政府去做山景道這一個高鐵車站的一個天橋那這個部分因為去年他們的設計作業有一些些延誤所以會在1月5年來跟我們申請這筆預算所以我想這個部分大概都跟相關的這些軌道這個安全也好或者是說"},{"start":5120.432,"end":5136.488,"text":"場戰的這些便利性也好或者是系統技術的提升有相當的關聯性那非常感謝剛剛陳金宏委員在兩個案子給我們的這個支持那最後一項所提到的這個三百萬的部分我想還是跟委員做一個報告"},{"start":5137.589,"end":5162.756,"text":"因為這個就如同剛剛前面所做的說明就是檢測驗證的這個部分其實攸關到我們軌道系統的這個設備上面的穩定性跟安全性那過去我們國內這方面的能量相對偏低那我們在體驗中心建置起來之後我們設了非常多的實驗室那這個部分預計在下個月開始他就可以進入實質的業務執行狀態"},{"start":5165.057,"end":5180.679,"text":"那1.5年度編的預算比較高是我們希望在初期能夠補助相關的這個鐵路營運公司把他的產品送到體驗中心來做檢測驗證的時候就如同買家電一樣我們也可以給他補助"},{"start":5181.62,"end":5198.502,"text":"換句話說這樣子能夠做一個良性的促進跟循環但是委員的三足是我們表示這個尊重那這個部分的業務推動也希望我們再跟委員做更詳細的說明跟報告謝謝好 謝謝楊局長我們就再請何新淳委員說明"},{"start":5200.398,"end":5226.734,"text":"好 謝謝主席我只是想進一步的請教一下楊局長因為剛剛聽到您在回答林俊憲委員的他的這個提案的內容的時候你有提到在雲嘉那邊是因為地層下限所以你有補助兩側的農民去這個轉做是希望能夠改善那個地層下限的原因那第一個當然我表示支持該這麼做但是我再進一步請我們鐵道局"},{"start":5229.575,"end":5257.108,"text":"針對我們的高鐵下面的沿線的尤其我在台中發現的是你們的排水系統當年沒有做好所謂的沒有做好是當年你們認為的高鐵下面的排水只要把它拉到這個地面上你們在地面上並沒有做其他的排水系統沒有做引流只是把高鐵上面的水引到"},{"start":5257.748,"end":5273.075,"text":"就一條水管這樣滾來然後呢就直接排到路面上或地面上那這個會衍生兩個問題一個問題是在於兩邊周遭如果是農田那還好因為農田可以含水"},{"start":5273.695,"end":5292.587,"text":"如果兩邊周遭不是農田而是有社區那會截斷兩邊社區的排水系統又加上你們本身高鐵下來的水沒有跟排水系統沒有做排水系統沒有銜接那造成困擾因為會淹水"},{"start":5294.81,"end":5311.923,"text":"那我覺得請你們這是我在台中看到的問題所以可不可以請鐵道局我們呢就應該是說統整在沿線去盤點這樣子的一個排水設施到底有沒有做好"},{"start":5312.663,"end":5341.333,"text":"我覺得不要造成民怨因為我看過太多的公共工程因為呢截斷兩邊的排水系統造成兩邊的農民也好或是兩邊的社區居民也好大家排水系統被截斷那又沒有被修復做整體的一個檢討跟興建所以呢常常水的問題沒有辦法解決好不好所以這個再拜託我們會後是不是再談一下好 謝謝"},{"start":5342.473,"end":5361.34,"text":"好謝謝我們的寶貴意見我們會來處理好 其他會員沒有補充意見那我們準備要來處理了我想這個2到17案16案已經同意改組決議那就16案改組決議"},{"start":5364.901,"end":5371.533,"text":"那其餘部分的話12岸因為剛剛也充分公佈過了嘛所以12岸12岸我們單獨出來就是3-300萬哦那其餘的部分"},{"start":5381.267,"end":5394.9,"text":"我們凍結百分之五好不好提出跟報告一個月內二到十七案我們再講宣告二到十七案除了十二案三減三百萬"},{"start":5396.107,"end":5416.98,"text":"然後16案改組決議之外其餘部分都是統一一律凍結5%那一個月內提出報告時的解凍好謝謝接下來我們處理18、19案那18、19案的部分18案我自己測案了這個交檢到局來溝通我就把它測案了那19案的部分"},{"start":5419.662,"end":5447.006,"text":"那我們就如果也不在我們就不處理齁好 十八案就等於都不處理了好 第二十案二十案是涉及開發工程式產業投資徐委員好 也不在 那我們就不處理好 接下來我們處理二十一到二十四案主決議的部分好 二十一分照辦理"},{"start":5449.207,"end":5468.315,"text":"二十二 遵照辦理二十三 遵照辦理二十四 遵照辦理好那我們一百一十五年度總預算的鐵道發展基金的部分審查完畢好我們現在休息五分鐘我們休息到十點十五分"},{"start":5475.302,"end":5491.525,"text":"OK好沒關係好OK沒關係那繼續處理OK啊大OK就OK好繼續處理抱歉抱歉沒事好一到四案的部分"},{"start":5493.652,"end":5505.157,"text":"只有私人對很快好我先講我的案子喔這個第二案提到3-28萬元喔"},{"start":5507.743,"end":5531.642,"text":"這個我確定到底是你們文字上的錯誤呢還是你們在重複編列其實28案不多可是你們在這個除草費用裡面編在你們把除草編在旅運費裡面在月算書裡面你們這樣編的我就看不太懂要除草很正常我沒有意見那你把它編在旅運費裡面就很奇怪"},{"start":5532.363,"end":5534.145,"text":"除草是委內辦理所以我們編了這個200萬這個是在材料及用品費下"},{"start":5558.093,"end":5577.508,"text":"那對應這項業務本局的同仁要到縣地去做溝通比如說有地方反映我們所管養的這些土地這個環境雜亂需要做土草的這樣一個作業所以我的同仁要去做到現場的部分他就會有一個所謂的採理費來做產生"},{"start":5578.909,"end":5606.467,"text":"換句話說一個是委外的費用一個是我的公務同仁要執行這項業務他要到縣地去確認說我要啟動我的除草開口合約的包商去做這件事情那包括事後的驗收事前的這個溝通跟確認所以我們會有兩個費用一個是委外一個是我同仁的參與費如果少了一部分他也變成是沒有辦法去執行這件事情我想跟委員做這個補充的說明"},{"start":5608.949,"end":5621.958,"text":"好 謝謝局長 那就我這樣就改組決議就好了說明一下 到時候把預算怎麼編列說明清楚就可以了是 謝謝那其他部分 其他委員都沒有意見喔"},{"start":5623.427,"end":5650.576,"text":"好 特別意見的話那我們就一到四案的部分這個台鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金一到四案的部分我們就都改組決議是 好不好謝謝謝謝好那五到六案這兩案的組決議部分第五案遵照辦理第六案遵照辦理好那我們一百一十五年度台鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金的總計算案也處理完畢 審查完畢"},{"start":5651.696,"end":5654.678,"text":"好那我們現在休息到10點半好了"},{"start":5678.672,"end":5679.052,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":5694.513,"end":5695.454,"text":"我們不再決議 當初通過廣告"},{"start":5716.129,"end":5718.031,"text":"反送中國衛生協定 還沒有 還沒有 還沒有 還沒有"},{"start":5736.826,"end":5744.371,"text":"昨天是明年,中國的小貨,現在又有貨量了。哎呀,真是。哎呀,真是。哎呀,真是。哎呀,真是。哎呀,真是。哎呀,真是。"},{"start":5765.425,"end":5765.765,"text":"嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":5818.861,"end":5819.203,"text":"這是下一個"},{"start":6814.5,"end":6821.747,"text":"好我们继续开会在开会之前呢我们先补充宣告一下在交通部铁道发展基金的部分要整理一个组决议"},{"start":6823.502,"end":6851.043,"text":"请铁道局及高铁公司应就高铁线路下方排水问题全面检讨及改善以免淹水造成两侧居民困扰产生民怨提案人核心船委员邻居线委员跟需不可以委员那请问委员会对于这些提案有意见好没有意见我们就增列这个组决议的提案好我们现在先再介绍在场列席的官员国家通讯传播委员会代理主委陈松树主委"},{"start":6853.737,"end":6861.77,"text":"主任秘書溫駿瑜秘書主機是陳月淳主任好那我們繼續開會這個現在來審查"},{"start":6868.888,"end":6892.653,"text":"115年度總預算案國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算那我們先看個案的部分各位有沒有意見來 黃孟愷委員好 主席謝謝喔那我想我們在開始我們國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算以及今天還有通傳基金 管理基金以及有線廣播電視發展基金這其實都非常重要我剛剛也看了一下不只我們交通委員會所有的委員"},{"start":6893.573,"end":6920.754,"text":"不管藍不管白不管綠都有做相關的提案我們過去這一個多月也都針對我們NCC的預算有很深入的一個研究我們也都很希望是說NCC真真正正把獨立機關給做好但我也想請教跟好奇的是7月31號馬上就要到了到時候代理主委的任期也結束了那後續是誰來執行這些預算"},{"start":6923.942,"end":6942.648,"text":"我們NCC到7月31號之後是所有委員的任期現在三位委員任期7月31號到期到目前為止本來應該是4月31號依法依NCC組織法依法4月30號行政院要提出名單但到目前為止已經過兩個月了還沒有送名單進來"},{"start":6944.128,"end":6963.48,"text":"這不只是針對在野黨這也是針對執政黨委員執政黨委員在交通委員會也有七位委員你們藐視不只是在野黨不只是執政黨的委員藐視立法院當然不是NCC代理主委因為提名不是你的權利是行政院院長"},{"start":6964.881,"end":6989.347,"text":"依法就只有行政院院長有權力提名名單從去年的11月四位NCC委員被否決依法也是三個月內要補題沒有補題到現在4月30號另外三位委員任期到期依法要補題沒有補題所以我們現在是陷入到一個憲政僵局啊而這憲政僵局的始作俑者就是行政院院長"},{"start":6990.925,"end":7003.079,"text":"所以我不知道說如果說這樣子我們還要再審NCC的預算那NCC的預算審了之後誰來執行沒有辦法執行因為依法你是沒有人員的"},{"start":7005.274,"end":7034.474,"text":"那所以我很開宗明義我就直接就講是說如果說行政院要這樣子藐視立法院的話那這樣子我們沒有辦法來處理這個預算那我也認為是說這個不是黨派之分這個是一個憲政之分憲政慣例不能開這樣的一個惡例那因此NCC的這些基金的預算或是說這個單位的預算我想是不是提議說我們就全部保留送協商"},{"start":7036.575,"end":7056.502,"text":"那不影響兩個部分第一不影響現在NCC所有機關裡面的公務同仁就是事務官公務同仁的薪資完全不受影響因為這延續性計畫跟人事費用本來就照常在運作這是從今年1月到6月你們都已經領到薪資所以這不影響"},{"start":7057.262,"end":7080.359,"text":"第二某種程度上我們也釋出善意我們不要說全部都否決NCC的預算刪除NCC的預算凍結NCC的預算而是我們讓送出委員會保留送協商那讓協商之前可能現在看起來7月會來做協商嘛那協商之前行政院應該要提出名單了吧"},{"start":7081.4,"end":7107.544,"text":"如果到協商之前行政院都還提不出名單的話那就代表說行政院根本在行政院的心目中NCC也是一個可有可無的機關啊那行政院如果說你認為NCC可有可無的話那行政院應該要表態啊不然很很明顯到7月31號當我們代理主委也任期到了之後那8月1號誰來運作NCC不要又再搞一個違法說要誰來代理啊"},{"start":7109.233,"end":7120.019,"text":"所以我現在先提出來我也請求我們所有委員的一個意見那我再次強調今天絕對不是黨派的問題"},{"start":7121.465,"end":7145.721,"text":"你送出來我一直講只要好的人選我們沒有反對的理由但你不要有政治意識形態那這個也不是只有我們質詢啊我們之前在總質詢的時候有質詢過行政院院長院長也說什麼要禁書再找人啊但找了那麼久還是沒有啊民眾黨團也都有質詢過啊也都說就一直在找人啊禁書禁書禁書到時候就沒有提出名單啊"},{"start":7147.54,"end":7162.465,"text":"所以我現在講完 我說還是有看到我們NCC基層公務同仁的努力所以你們的薪資你們的相關的人事行政費用延續性計畫不影響"},{"start":7163.772,"end":7180.907,"text":"我們希望NCC的公務同仁可以持續的辦公但我們不要的是因為行政院院長的怠惰堵職違法沒有提出名單而造成整個NCC機關的停擺以上 謝謝"},{"start":7187.798,"end":7208.186,"text":"總結統委員謝謝主席剛剛門檻委員的一個發言我在這邊也表示認同這是一個原則問題在場當然我們代理組委也非常辛苦我們所有NCC的同仁也都非常的盡責盡職這是一個原則問題"},{"start":7212.408,"end":7227.208,"text":"從過去我們一直期待行政院長能夠來繼續提名我們NCC的一個委員那到目前為止都沒有任何的一個名單那當然我們"},{"start":7229.21,"end":7246.592,"text":"也了解NCC既然有這樣的一個組織機關的存在那它也必須要運作但是沒有委員怎麼來去執行我們必要的政策必要的一個工作所以那個委員的一個"},{"start":7247.473,"end":7261.834,"text":"提案我們就保有送行商這樣的一個提案我在這邊表達也認同也同意也呼籲以上謝謝好謝謝我們陳慶榮總召那接下來請林俊憲召委發言"},{"start":7265.078,"end":7291.888,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝主席這NCC現在即將沒有任何的委員這當然會是個問題那我們也希望行政院能夠來提名但在那之前我覺得我們各政黨應該要有一個共識如果我們要NCC正常運作那麼我們應該就行政院提名的人選"},{"start":7293.547,"end":7307.017,"text":"大家不要黨進黨出用集體性的投票來把它封殺上次提四個看得很清楚啊在野黨連一票支持都沒有全數反對"},{"start":7308.217,"end":7326.033,"text":"那就是黨進黨出嘛你們是用全黨的命令那就是在政治考量的投票啦而不是這個委員好不好啦全部都封殺啦那你現在提名來那保證喔全部封殺啦那提名要做啥那還沒過啊"},{"start":7326.974,"end":7342.419,"text":"不能我們立法院一邊罵沒有委員那行政院提名的委員我們要不分青紅皂白全部封殺這樣就不好了NCC畢竟還是有它非常重要的功能"},{"start":7343.659,"end":7372.361,"text":"現在各產業民眾的申請案積壓多少需要你們大委員會來審議的我看超過600個案所以這樣子的話受害的是民眾的申請案還有產業需要我們NCC行政部門核准通過的案所以我們也希望我們也呼籲在野黨要理性的"},{"start":7373.677,"end":7400.05,"text":"你現在不能要求說沒有委員你送來到時候又全部封殺從公平會開始包括現在的監委我們看到的都是這樣子提名都沒一個月過也造成我們對於那些因為這些被提名的委員都必須要逐一來拜訪我們拜訪黨團拜訪交委會的立委"},{"start":7401.263,"end":7424.657,"text":"我們就要互相照顧 互相拜訪 拜訪過不然這個會過因為基本上這個就是政治談判啦我想NCCC是比較NCCC是目前基案如山那如果在這種狀況下我們第一個 我們有請行政院來提名啦第二個 我們希望各政黨我們應該要理性的來審查啦"},{"start":7429.634,"end":7455.635,"text":"再來第三個就講到預算問題我們還是有內部的一些預算必須要來儘快通過因為現在已經六月了快七月了你在中間協商完不然何年何月可能到八月了新的會期又開始了那177還是有一些必須要儘速通過的預算這個部分也請177待會來說明一下好謝謝主持人"},{"start":7460.381,"end":7476.976,"text":"好 請孟凱委員繼續發言我們站在這邊是民意代表民意代表的職責就是代替人民監督政府所以不要倒因為果行政院違法就是4月3日沒有提出名單人選"},{"start":7478.823,"end":7504.237,"text":"這就是違法的事實白紙黑字寫在那邊NCC組織法第四條看一下嘛任期到滿前三個月行政院長應提出名單送立法院審查第四條裡面有提到如果說立法院這邊審查不通過也應該要在三個月內提出名單送立法院再審查"},{"start":7505.495,"end":7529.147,"text":"今天是行政院沒有做到他依法應該要做的事情怎麼變成是說是立法院的責任呢再來說團進團出那我也請民進黨團也不要團進團出啊不要一位護航啊有些人選真的投得下去嗎所以這種政治語言就不要拿來這邊講"},{"start":7535.006,"end":7555.854,"text":"來 馬上來啦 中選會的委員有沒有通過有通過嘛 權敘部部長有沒有通過有通過嘛 沈記長有沒有通過 有通過嘛所以我們就講啊 只要是提出好的人選 在野黨不會全盤的否定馬上就被打臉了嘛"},{"start":7556.789,"end":7567.993,"text":"中選會連主委我們都拉分過了主席因為洪委員所以本席現在講然後請問你那四個委員哪一個你覺得不好我現在沒有在針對你的發言我現在是針對我們立法院的立場要表達清楚啦巨憲委員不要踮腳踮上去啦巨憲委員不要踮腳踮上去NCC委員上次提四個我現在在講第一個你去年"},{"start":7581.537,"end":7605.525,"text":"什麼地方不是議員去年那個時候你在盲人去議員那四個委員我現在講的其實重點就是大是大非的問題大是大非的問題就在於是說我們要求的是行政院要依法行政行政院不能依法行政的話我們沒有辦法跟你再審查所以不要現在在立法院還護著行政院"},{"start":7607.806,"end":7618.169,"text":"交通委員會的尊嚴需要守住立法院的尊嚴需要守住你講哪一個委員你覺得不好什麼地方不好你自己沒有辦法講出護航的理由來那你講一下你護航的理由是什麼"},{"start":7623.43,"end":7634.538,"text":"第一個這是個學者的學金我們看得都很清楚哪四個哪一個你反對哪一個你反對嘛說實在話我覺得這樣子就變成是一個義氣之爭是不是4月30號已經通過了快兩個月我跟你講你們兩個委員再講下去再講兩個弄到沒有結果啦我來講好不好好"},{"start":7650.512,"end":7661.993,"text":"民進黨提名一片綠一片綠啊蠻綠油油的我們悶心自問嘛所以我講話呢紀念委員不會生氣昆德委員不會生氣"},{"start":7663.072,"end":7666.534,"text":"孟愷講話你就會發脾氣有些學者坦白講我們也不認識我都知道他是綠的多綠啊我靠那臉又沒寫啦NCC喔我靠這是好話"},{"start":7682.503,"end":7710.342,"text":"我跟你講NCC是獨立行使職權是不是這個很重要的所以說你提名的時候你起碼提名也差不多一點嘛你現在在藍綠白那麼不信任的一個政治環境裡面你可以商量一下嘛543還是345嘛對不對大家妥協一下政治本來就是一個妥協的藝術嘛是不是"},{"start":7712.062,"end":7728.38,"text":"那你這樣提你再提你十個封殺十個我跟你保證啊根本我連我不要用大腦想我用屁股想都知道一定封殺全面封殺嘛是不是現在已經沒有立法院了你知道嗎問題是出在這裡啊"},{"start":7729.656,"end":7758.849,"text":"沒有立法院啦 你以為有立法院喔立法院三讀透過的東西行政院長來個不附屬喔老共還有什麼政協啦 人大啦 我們沒有啦台灣只有行政院啦我們講個良心話是不是要目前所以 ONCC委員的提名喔我請我們民進黨的委員啦你們都是助攻啦 民進黨的助攻啦回去跟他們講一下你不要這樣啦"},{"start":7762.529,"end":7779.569,"text":"誰?陳明修啊陳明修封殺誰?副主委啊誰封殺他?他也沒來給我拜託喔他拜託我不見得會封殺他你叫他離婚出來,我絕對不會封殺他我跟各位說,這個就是藍的啊就是比較偏藍的啊不是啦,我現在講喔"},{"start":7781.141,"end":7801.306,"text":"你現在NCC主委在這邊,我跟他講你超然獨立嗎?他自己講,你再講一次他沒有超然獨立嘛,你知道嗎?他沒有超然獨立,他也很無奈這個政治環境,大家都搞政治的都很清楚嘛,是不是?那我是說,你也差不多一點,提名的時候你這樣戰鬥還是全面封殺"},{"start":7806.36,"end":7828.569,"text":"那現在勒?那你那個副主委不夠懶嘛你看中天的事情,你不要講一個分,你講一個幹什麼?你講一個幹什麼?對不對?不是,我針對你剛講話那你不能講說江大委員要提一個廖婉如,你們要不要封殺?是不是?廖婉如是我們國民黨的議員以前啊那提名成也成好了,我也不敢去幹啊誰敢去幹?"},{"start":7833.725,"end":7842.811,"text":"現在就協商嘛大家不要吵啦協商他適度的預算我們要給他保留嘛他沒有委員但是底下底下還有人員要吃飯啊"},{"start":7847.975,"end":7863.955,"text":"好 謝謝其實非常遺憾在今年度的預算其實在去年年底就應該審訊完畢那我們到現在六月底還在炒這個去年應該要通過的預算"},{"start":7864.716,"end":7892.786,"text":"那相關的人士也一再的受到阻隔這也是不爭的事實不過我要請NCC陳代理主委來說明一下這個目前的預算啦他的重要性剛才林俊憲召委也請NCC要來做說明相關的預算在相關的政策以及目前的業務推動啊有什麼重要性那其實我們NCC的"},{"start":7893.946,"end":7918.024,"text":"公務人員他們來工作是為了國家做事而不是領薪資不是為了只是來領薪資這個對公務員這樣的說法我認為也不是很正常那請陳代理主委請NCC等一下說明一下相關預算編列的一個重要性來一下好謝謝坤哲委員那我們就請陳代理主委同意回覆"},{"start":7919.429,"end":7934.607,"text":"是 剛剛林昭偉跟昆澤偉有提到這邊NC的預算分三個部分 單位預算其實扣除掉人事費6億多 剩下1億多是基本維持費用 水電通訊費還有土地租金"},{"start":7935.548,"end":7962.452,"text":"所以那個租金該付給人家還是付給人家這是一個基本原則沒辦法迴避的那通常基金的話我們變5億多的稅出但大部分的情況其實很多都是在跟民生吐息的部分有關像一些社群器材的審驗這個有好幾個部分好幾個RCB的審驗機構是每天都要"},{"start":7962.992,"end":7983.757,"text":"我們都要付一些錢給他來受理因為ICT產業非常發達設備每天都有來申請認證那有限基金有40%是撥付給地方政府那地方政府會做一些相關醫療管法相關45條的一些運用這些都是比較迫切需要的那回過頭來講"},{"start":7985.177,"end":8001.65,"text":"通常業務裡頭其實45條其實這個5點多億裡頭那有些是也有些內部的一些需求像這個資訊設備那去年也有一些人要求說要我們做一些自動化我們直接以後做一些處理所以"},{"start":8004.028,"end":8021.74,"text":"通傳業 通訊跟傳播的部分 特別是這兩部分的一些跟民眾有關的部分 剛剛講到設備器材還有一些建築物基建設備相關的一些寬頻化社會的一些要求這些都有一些要支出的一些部分"},{"start":8022.66,"end":8040.83,"text":"那有限的部分另外一個就是因為有限電視大家面臨的一些處境大家都很清楚它是面臨OTT的強烈挑戰我們都在有限基金在NCC可以運營的30%的部分我們都持續拿來推動讓業者做一個順利的轉型這些都是很迫切需要持續來辦理的以上補充請問凱文議員"},{"start":8050.768,"end":8077.656,"text":"你這個NCC委員還沒上任沒有暫時就沒有那底下公務人員要運轉啊你有一些會議要等委員會去決定的那不等委員會決定的你們內部還是公務的行政程序在進行需要什麼錢你不要這裡預算於協商三下五去都把你統統給砍光光砍光光你們只剩下薪水"},{"start":8078.656,"end":8106.496,"text":"等一下又來了又說我們交通委員會連衛生紙也不給你什麼汽油費也不給你對不對他講的這個東西你基本費維持費或是幹什麼你們自己心裡要有個譜你這樣不能當我的發言人啦這樣完全無法忠實的反映我的發言陳學生委員那好我個人的意見可以嗎你個人對就是你個人你剛才講的不是這個意思嘛是不是"},{"start":8107.628,"end":8132.444,"text":"那不是的話 那就我們去競爭啦那就換我多言嘛 對不對 那他自己去玩啦好 謝謝 我是好意啊我們改為發言 我們改為舉手那麼改為發言啦好啦 南希代理主委剛剛講的預算這一些東西都重要就是因為你講的都重要所以更凸顯了行政院長沒有提名是多麼荒謬的事"},{"start":8133.737,"end":8147.005,"text":"我們大家都希望是獨立機關正常運作所以去年11月之後三個月內為什麼行政院長沒有依法提名難道行政院長認為說NCA不重要不然有錢沒人來執行業務這樣合理嗎"},{"start":8149.011,"end":8164.662,"text":"今年4月30號到任期前三個月行政院長沒有依法提名有錢沒人合理嗎完全不合理啊代理主委你的任期只剩一個半月到7月31號你就要離職了你的任期就滿了"},{"start":8165.763,"end":8190.406,"text":"那你都很關心我們也很關心NCC也要正常運作這是從過去到現在我們所有朝野委員一次在這邊質詢你的時候講出來的話我們那時候也講是說你應該要把握時間跟行政院院長說真的NCC重要所以你要提名啊但是到目前為止沒提名是事實啊沒送人選來是事實啊也沒有一再否決啊"},{"start":8191.348,"end":8215.464,"text":"我們沒有一再否決是因為去年11月提名完之後就沒有再提過人了所以你沒有做到行政院院長沒有做到的事情然後現在變成是立法院要幫你收拾要幫你擦屁股不合邏輯啊所以我還是強調這一個預算我們現在釋出不分善意是這個預算所有委員都已經看過也都有提案"},{"start":8216.064,"end":8238.82,"text":"那這些提案不只國民黨不只民眾黨不只民進黨我們委員的提案都很重要那也希望我們這邊送協商保留送協商有一個月左右不知道時間多少但是我們希望能夠最快速度行政院長趕快依法補足程序那至少在朝野協商的時候大家有一個基本默契可以來做處理"},{"start":8239.941,"end":8262.383,"text":"我想這才是維護憲政體制能夠繼續往前走的方式否則的話這是一個僵局啊好 以上謝謝好 請董秉哲委員好 謝謝主席請問一下今天那個主計有來嗎你們那個通常會單位預算跟通常基金目前的執行率比例大概多少總數"},{"start":8271.792,"end":8294.657,"text":"百分之八十五分貝數是多少這個不好意思我沒有帶這一份資料我們在講今年的預算我今年的預算我也要問你這問題很基本吧很基本的問題啊我沒有再說十年前的預算我現在在審這本的預算你目前執行率大概八成五嘛"},{"start":8296.268,"end":8309.785,"text":"對好不好因為這個交通委員齁就其實我們不同黨派這個沒有必要事情真的不要吵架了齁就是說第一個去年沒有審議算到現在才審那個如果寓意是說"},{"start":8310.726,"end":8330.015,"text":"後面隱含的意思是說害他們現在一毛錢沒有用他們的答案已經講不是這麼回事好不好我們即使這個預算到現在律行性的法定預算延續性的他們都持續在使用而且NCC比較特別大部分的預算大部分預算都是屬於比較每年都有的延續性的為主"},{"start":8330.715,"end":8350.664,"text":"所以他現在去已經八成五都已經用掉了我們在擔心他一毛錢沒有用為這個來吵架我就覺得沒有必要了那第二個事實上確實到今年七月委員的問題是一個關鍵的問題坦白講啦對於每位立委我們扮演很多的角色第一個我們是交通委員會的委員"},{"start":8351.624,"end":8371.286,"text":"第一個當然我們也是全院委員會但是畢竟角色不同在交通委員會我們的立場即使在審議委員的時候我們沒有在現場杯葛委員在交通委員會審議我們都經過整個程序之後把它送到院會所以在交通委員會我們再提出來就我們的職責"},{"start":8372.888,"end":8397.057,"text":"在這個孟愷委員很多委員提出這樣的一個想法因為畢竟你如果沒有委員的功能是不完全的你在預算有很多的執行是要委員會的一個功能所以這個部分確實是要這個是有質疑的至於說我想交通委員會這個去談整個院會政黨之間的惡意螺旋不斷的上升這是事實啦"},{"start":8398.237,"end":8415.09,"text":"都沒有一個是單一事件預算為什麼delay或是說行政會為什麼不附屬我們的這個我們在交通委員會盡量我們就不談這個部分那二與螺旋要怎麼樣解決那這個靠政黨之間的智慧那所以這個部分我是覺得第一個剛剛提的案子"},{"start":8416.011,"end":8434.937,"text":"直接後續再來協商第一個沒有影響到他現在主要預算的使用只需0.85%所以我想事不事讓這個案子也這個剛剛孟愷委員跟陳董委員的一個提案也表達我們的立場謝謝好謝謝羅文哲委員我想是這樣啦"},{"start":8435.757,"end":8463.189,"text":"第一個剛剛我想我們NCC的主席主任陳主任已經講了就是他們現在自息率85%這第一件事情那第二件事情是說其實確實在7月底前看起來目前為止目前還沒有提出任何一個NCC委員要補的問題那其實我們現在審查預算馬上變成就是我們今天教練今天審查完畢到8月1號NCC就沒有委員了那這件事情一直沒有解決的話我們現在省政預算其實也有點"},{"start":8464.309,"end":8488.451,"text":"不知道找誰背書就是主委你8月1號你也離開這職位了所以你也沒有辦法用這個預算的說明來背書啦所以我想這樣啦我們就直接處理啦我們就是因為剛剛大家討論了但是大家也吵了一輪也辯論一輪了那我想這樣啦大家也不要在這邊吵確實就是真的沒有委員那我們也就是保留一個彈性空間我們全案保留送院會協商"},{"start":8490.885,"end":8506.205,"text":"好 那就 就這樣 好好 安捏那我們這案就這樣處理喔我們的NCC的國家中心全部委員會單位預算通傳基金 有限基金 負擔會預算全部都送 願會保留保留全部送願會協商好 今天會議到這邊結束"},{"start":8518.059,"end":8522.966,"text":"誰有意願?誰有意願?誰有意願?誰有意願?誰有意願?誰有意願?誰有意願?誰有意願?"},{"start":8538.919,"end":8563.794,"text":"好 協商完成我們就以下宣告今日協商結論免以宣讀授權議事人員整理作為決議列入紀錄委員要求提供的書面報告及相關資料請交通部及相關機關緊述與書面答覆修正通過之提案如二委員對於提案補簽均列入紀錄並刊登公報針對本日會議作為如下決議照協商結論通過本日通過之決議文字授權主席及議事人員調整"},{"start":8567.096,"end":8580.705,"text":"115年度交通部鐵道局及所屬國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算鐵道發展基金台鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金通訊傳播監督管理基金有限廣播電視事業發展基金分額預算審查完畢"},{"start":8583.424,"end":8605.574,"text":"本會主審115年度中央政府總預算案關於附屬單位預算營業及非燕部分均已審查完畢並決議如下一擬據審查報告含附財政委員會提報願會討論二願會討論前須交由黨團協商三願會討論時由本會黃召集委員建豪及林召集委員俊憲出席說明休息明天上午九點繼續開會"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":143.57,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_01","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":33.51,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_02","speaker":"SPEAKER_13","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":338.53,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_03","speaker":"SPEAKER_02","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":292.17,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_04","speaker":"SPEAKER_03","embedding":"/YLWvbJGHD3vaaE8gE5sPbv2hDw9pyW+tSRAPddcSr2Mwtm94BRUPaO0ET45kTi9B2sLPloJ9z3dFE8+awwbvCdturx1Wig+ShhvPdWgM7zQhmC94ISUPSoZ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