{"error":false,"id":["17548"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17548,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17548","日期":"2026-06-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2026-06-25T08:33:58+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-25T11:10:00+08:00","影片長度":"02:36:02","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc185f057c3f35196f5747feab1c358b40ed7231b3d2e2f92a284ce72292f6a5075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-06-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、考試院秘書長、監察院秘書長、法務部部長、公平交易委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、中央選舉委員會針對「我國憲政機關、獨立機關首長代理制度之現況與精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:33:58 - 11:10:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1587.0234687500001,"end":1591.2928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1592.8284687500002,"end":1602.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1602.7172187500003,"end":1671.1453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1674.5540937500002,"end":1681.4222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1681.9959687500002,"end":1690.7203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1691.34471875,"end":1693.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1693.9603437500002,"end":1700.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1700.8284687500002,"end":1705.7390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1706.80221875,"end":1713.6534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1716.8597187500002,"end":1746.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1753.3265937500003,"end":1764.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1765.02096875,"end":1769.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1769.7628437500002,"end":1773.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1773.9647187500002,"end":1779.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1779.0778437500003,"end":1782.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1783.3472187500001,"end":1788.0722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1788.51096875,"end":1790.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1791.61596875,"end":1808.6765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1808.9803437500002,"end":1817.4178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1817.63721875,"end":1819.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1819.9322187500002,"end":1821.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1822.6322187500002,"end":1824.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1825.1465937500002,"end":1826.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1826.7159687500002,"end":1827.8465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1828.3865937500002,"end":1832.0484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1832.4365937500002,"end":1840.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1841.1947187500002,"end":1847.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1848.6197187500002,"end":1860.9047187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1861.2590937500001,"end":1865.0897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1865.29221875,"end":1890.2503437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1890.6722187500002,"end":1892.8490937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1893.2709687500003,"end":1894.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1896.0384687500002,"end":1902.5353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1902.7715937500002,"end":1903.5140937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1904.52659375,"end":1929.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1929.4003437500003,"end":1932.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1933.0115937500002,"end":1942.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1943.0184687500002,"end":1946.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1946.8153437500002,"end":1957.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1958.0540937500002,"end":1962.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1962.9140937500001,"end":1965.8334687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1965.9515937500003,"end":1973.2247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1973.3765937500002,"end":1980.3965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1980.5315937500002,"end":1983.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1983.0290937500001,"end":1983.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1985.0203437500002,"end":1985.0372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1985.0372187500002,"end":1990.7072187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1993.9978437500001,"end":1994.4872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1995.1284687500001,"end":2005.5909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2006.06346875,"end":2139.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2140.30409375,"end":2144.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2153.5847187500003,"end":2156.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2156.8415937500004,"end":2158.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2158.9678437500006,"end":2167.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2167.54034375,"end":2171.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2172.3834687500002,"end":2172.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2173.0584687500004,"end":2184.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2185.02284375,"end":2188.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2188.53284375,"end":2189.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2190.1022187500002,"end":2193.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2193.46034375,"end":2196.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2197.7803437500006,"end":2209.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2209.3397187500004,"end":2216.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2217.3047187500006,"end":2229.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2229.7753437500005,"end":2230.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2231.31096875,"end":2233.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2233.9265937500004,"end":2245.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2245.82346875,"end":2246.1609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2246.6334687500002,"end":2250.0759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2250.64971875,"end":2252.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2253.0965937500005,"end":2255.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2256.8428437500006,"end":2273.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2274.0047187500004,"end":2281.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2282.30721875,"end":2293.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2293.32659375,"end":2297.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2298.2372187500005,"end":2317.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2318.20034375,"end":2321.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2322.18284375,"end":2325.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2325.87846875,"end":2348.1872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2348.57534375,"end":2408.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2408.2959687500006,"end":2423.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2425.86284375,"end":2443.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2443.98659375,"end":2453.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2453.75721875,"end":2458.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2460.81096875,"end":2462.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2462.97096875,"end":2467.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2475.03659375,"end":2495.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2487.33846875,"end":2487.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2487.3553437500004,"end":2487.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2487.38909375,"end":2487.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2487.45659375,"end":2487.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2487.57471875,"end":2487.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2495.57346875,"end":2498.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2499.38721875,"end":2583.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2584.6228437500004,"end":2617.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2619.48659375,"end":2663.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2633.3409687500007,"end":2633.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2667.90096875,"end":2678.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2679.03846875,"end":2683.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2692.28534375,"end":2698.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2699.0690937500003,"end":2720.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2707.1522187500004,"end":2707.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2720.33159375,"end":2721.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2721.6647187500002,"end":2725.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2725.93409375,"end":2726.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2726.59221875,"end":2729.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2729.30909375,"end":2732.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2732.12721875,"end":2735.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2735.19846875,"end":2736.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2737.20659375,"end":2747.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2747.55096875,"end":2748.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2749.0528437500006,"end":2751.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2751.60096875,"end":2759.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2760.0047187500004,"end":2762.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2760.22409375,"end":2760.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2760.2409687500003,"end":2760.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2760.34221875,"end":2760.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2762.6540937500004,"end":2773.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2774.2303437500004,"end":2776.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2774.5847187500003,"end":2775.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2775.6140937500004,"end":2784.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2784.86159375,"end":2789.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2789.6540937500004,"end":2789.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2789.7722187500003,"end":2789.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2789.7890937500006,"end":2789.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2789.80596875,"end":2789.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2789.9747187500006,"end":2793.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2790.12659375,"end":2790.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2790.8184687500006,"end":2790.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2790.9197187500004,"end":2790.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2790.95346875,"end":2791.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2794.0078437500006,"end":2796.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2802.8672187500006,"end":2817.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2817.7509687500005,"end":2831.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2832.1453437500004,"end":2884.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2884.9978437500004,"end":2898.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2899.3584687500006,"end":2900.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2900.5565937500005,"end":2902.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2902.5984687500004,"end":2904.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2904.4040937500004,"end":2932.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2913.6853437500004,"end":2914.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2916.5878437500005,"end":2918.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2918.5790937500005,"end":2918.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2919.3722187500007,"end":2920.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2921.4815937500007,"end":2921.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2921.54909375,"end":2922.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2922.22409375,"end":2922.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2922.7978437500005,"end":2922.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2922.88221875,"end":2922.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2922.9834687500006,"end":2923.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2924.14784375,"end":2926.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2926.49346875,"end":2926.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2927.2528437500005,"end":2928.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2928.9909687500003,"end":2929.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2929.0078437500006,"end":2929.1934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2929.1934687500006,"end":2929.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2930.5603437500004,"end":2932.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2932.9903437500006,"end":2935.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2933.14221875,"end":2935.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2935.9772187500002,"end":2937.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2936.19659375,"end":2937.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2937.7490937500006,"end":2939.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2939.3184687500006,"end":2956.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2946.08534375,"end":2950.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2954.5397187500002,"end":2970.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2957.18909375,"end":2959.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2960.2265937500006,"end":2960.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2962.5215937500006,"end":2963.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2965.32284375,"end":2968.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2969.7440937500005,"end":2978.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2979.3797187500004,"end":2989.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2986.21409375,"end":2988.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2989.0322187500005,"end":2989.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2989.06596875,"end":2989.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2989.7578437500006,"end":3001.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3002.78534375,"end":3005.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3005.28284375,"end":3007.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3006.54846875,"end":3016.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3014.14221875,"end":3020.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3019.86284375,"end":3037.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3023.3897187500006,"end":3023.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3025.04346875,"end":3025.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3025.81971875,"end":3025.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3025.95471875,"end":3026.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3026.96721875,"end":3026.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3033.0759687500004,"end":3033.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3036.13034375,"end":3040.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3038.59409375,"end":3039.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3039.97784375,"end":3050.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3044.7872187500006,"end":3045.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3047.6053437500004,"end":3048.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3048.7022187500006,"end":3117.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3118.2440937500005,"end":3147.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3121.2647187500006,"end":3121.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3127.20471875,"end":3127.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3127.79534375,"end":3127.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3127.8797187500004,"end":3128.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3128.03159375,"end":3129.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3136.65471875,"end":3137.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3137.97096875,"end":3138.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3138.03846875,"end":3138.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3139.2703437500004,"end":3139.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3139.2872187500006,"end":3140.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3144.7547187500004,"end":3214.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3215.0897187500004,"end":3264.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3232.0828437500004,"end":3234.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3235.18784375,"end":3235.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3235.7109687500006,"end":3236.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3236.03159375,"end":3237.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3237.5672187500004,"end":3237.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3243.8447187500005,"end":3245.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3245.97096875,"end":3246.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3257.0915937500004,"end":3258.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3260.9559687500005,"end":3268.2628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3265.4109687500004,"end":3269.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3269.2753437500005,"end":3280.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3277.8984687500006,"end":3282.9103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3281.05409375,"end":3283.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3283.21409375,"end":3287.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3285.4922187500006,"end":3287.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3288.0740937500004,"end":3288.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3288.52971875,"end":3291.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3288.58034375,"end":3289.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3289.6434687500005,"end":3297.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3291.97221875,"end":3293.9972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3296.19096875,"end":3301.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3299.9372187500003,"end":3319.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3317.80784375,"end":3328.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3321.43596875,"end":3322.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3325.82346875,"end":3326.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3326.66721875,"end":3330.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3328.8778437500005,"end":3336.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3332.64096875,"end":3334.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3334.69971875,"end":3335.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3335.5097187500005,"end":3348.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3336.62346875,"end":3337.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3346.6134687500007,"end":3357.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3350.5790937500005,"end":3352.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3356.63721875,"end":3363.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3364.70346875,"end":3365.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3365.8678437500002,"end":3365.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3365.9522187500006,"end":3366.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3366.03659375,"end":3377.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3377.19096875,"end":3380.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3380.85284375,"end":3385.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3395.9053437500006,"end":3404.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3406.8065937500005,"end":3408.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3416.52659375,"end":3418.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3419.3278437500003,"end":3450.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3450.5634687500005,"end":3468.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3469.9190937500007,"end":3485.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3487.5197187500007,"end":3504.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3499.3659687500003,"end":3503.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3504.05721875,"end":3505.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3505.06971875,"end":3550.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3506.26784375,"end":3509.7440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3551.0203437500004,"end":3551.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3551.83034375,"end":3552.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3552.97784375,"end":3553.3322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3554.8340937500006,"end":3583.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3584.19659375,"end":3615.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3616.2253437500003,"end":3664.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3664.8084687500004,"end":3696.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3702.3722187500007,"end":3712.0753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3712.4128437500003,"end":3712.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3713.96534375,"end":3714.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3715.29846875,"end":3721.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3721.96409375,"end":3723.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3724.1072187500004,"end":3732.6290937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3733.0847187500003,"end":3737.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3737.7422187500006,"end":3754.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3753.62159375,"end":3762.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3759.59534375,"end":3759.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3762.4978437500004,"end":3766.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3766.6490937500002,"end":3778.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3779.0690937500003,"end":3787.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3788.08034375,"end":3805.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3806.40659375,"end":3806.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3806.9297187500006,"end":3809.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3814.3378437500005,"end":3822.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3822.9103437500007,"end":3823.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3823.6022187500002,"end":3823.6359687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3824.2097187500003,"end":3831.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3827.4328437500008,"end":3830.3859687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3832.02284375,"end":3832.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3832.79909375,"end":3835.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3835.9715937500005,"end":3841.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3842.8903437500003,"end":3842.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3842.92409375,"end":3842.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3842.9747187500006,"end":3843.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3844.32471875,"end":3846.3497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3846.85596875,"end":3848.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3849.7922187500008,"end":3854.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3854.73659375,"end":3860.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3860.5584687500004,"end":3862.0265937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3862.0265937500008,"end":3863.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3863.07284375,"end":3863.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3863.37659375,"end":3863.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3864.3047187500006,"end":3872.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3873.1472187500003,"end":3879.3234687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3879.6778437500006,"end":3881.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3889.63409375,"end":3898.8478437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3890.00534375,"end":3890.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3899.4890937500004,"end":3899.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3899.5397187500002,"end":3900.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3900.0290937500004,"end":3914.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3915.2165937500004,"end":3916.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3916.0097187500005,"end":3916.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3916.11096875,"end":3916.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3916.21221875,"end":3916.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3916.27971875,"end":3916.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3916.2965937500003,"end":3916.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3916.3640937500004,"end":3916.4484687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3916.4484687500008,"end":3916.6172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3916.6172187500006,"end":3916.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3916.9715937500005,"end":3919.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3917.79846875,"end":3919.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3919.3172187500004,"end":3919.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3919.41846875,"end":3928.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3919.4522187500006,"end":3921.5109687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3926.9784687500005,"end":3937.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3937.91346875,"end":3945.2540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3946.3847187500005,"end":3954.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3952.86471875,"end":3954.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3955.8515937500006,"end":3955.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3955.9697187500005,"end":3959.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3969.2334687500006,"end":3970.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3971.3934687500005,"end":3974.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3974.02596875,"end":3988.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3985.8722187500007,"end":3989.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3989.8209687500002,"end":4005.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3992.14971875,"end":3992.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4003.7090937500006,"end":4004.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4005.97034375,"end":4006.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4006.08846875,"end":4006.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4006.5778437500003,"end":4006.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4006.5947187500005,"end":4006.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4006.6622187500006,"end":4006.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4006.6959687500002,"end":4017.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4006.8815937500003,"end":4008.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4016.73659375,"end":4023.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4020.0440937500007,"end":4025.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4024.88721875,"end":4032.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4026.87846875,"end":4037.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4037.96534375,"end":4041.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4042.5047187500004,"end":4042.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4042.5215937500006,"end":4043.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4043.02784375,"end":4043.8547187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4045.0528437500006,"end":4073.6222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4066.41659375,"end":4066.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4066.4334687500004,"end":4067.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4072.3903437500003,"end":4072.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4073.1328437500006,"end":4119.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4120.163468750001,"end":4148.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4148.81721875,"end":4190.987843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4194.1434687500005,"end":4195.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4209.600968750001,"end":4212.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4217.667218750001,"end":4222.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4224.467843750001,"end":4226.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4232.60159375,"end":4240.769093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4241.562218749999,"end":4297.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4256.142218749999,"end":4256.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4298.616593750001,"end":4300.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4300.89471875,"end":4303.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4303.493468750001,"end":4304.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4305.06284375,"end":4310.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4311.137843750001,"end":4325.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4326.67971875,"end":4328.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4329.58221875,"end":4336.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4336.635968750001,"end":4352.144093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4352.83596875,"end":4357.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4357.03784375,"end":4390.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4359.029093749999,"end":4359.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4362.85971875,"end":4362.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4391.715968750001,"end":4410.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4402.212218750001,"end":4402.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4410.61596875,"end":4410.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4410.85221875,"end":4417.534718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4417.97346875,"end":4424.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4425.66846875,"end":4427.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4428.638468749999,"end":4442.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4428.85784375,"end":4429.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4443.0497187500005,"end":4443.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4443.083468750001,"end":4443.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4443.370343750001,"end":4443.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4443.38721875,"end":4447.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4443.420968750001,"end":4443.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4443.977843750001,"end":4444.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4446.25596875,"end":4446.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4447.08284375,"end":4458.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4459.04721875,"end":4459.722218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4459.84034375,"end":4472.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4472.02409375,"end":4482.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4472.1590937500005,"end":4474.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4482.925343749999,"end":4491.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4483.14471875,"end":4483.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4491.1434687500005,"end":4493.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4493.809718750001,"end":4495.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4495.32846875,"end":4505.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4505.53784375,"end":4518.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4519.915343750001,"end":4521.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4522.159718749999,"end":4531.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4532.655968749999,"end":4537.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4533.364718750001,"end":4535.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4536.689093749999,"end":4537.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4537.769093749999,"end":4557.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4556.331593749999,"end":4562.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4559.1834687499995,"end":4560.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4561.394093749999,"end":4562.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4562.288468750001,"end":4562.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4565.1572187500005,"end":4578.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4567.73909375,"end":4568.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4573.341593749999,"end":4576.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4578.184718750001,"end":4579.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4578.91034375,"end":4579.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4579.534718749999,"end":4583.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4582.116593750001,"end":4606.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4605.505343750001,"end":4610.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4616.946593750001,"end":4617.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4617.01409375,"end":4636.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4617.09846875,"end":4617.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4636.352843750001,"end":4640.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4639.592843750001,"end":4639.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4641.0272187499995,"end":4642.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4643.052218750001,"end":4645.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4645.17846875,"end":4645.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4645.41471875,"end":4653.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4649.852843750001,"end":4651.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4653.936593750001,"end":4656.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4654.999718749999,"end":4669.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4661.86784375,"end":4662.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4662.30659375,"end":4662.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4670.0184687500005,"end":4673.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4671.317843750001,"end":4671.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4671.94221875,"end":4671.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4672.060343749999,"end":4673.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4674.30471875,"end":4674.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4675.14846875,"end":4677.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4677.544718749999,"end":4689.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4689.171593749999,"end":4695.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4696.98471875,"end":4703.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4703.903468750001,"end":4706.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4706.654093749999,"end":4719.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4720.27221875,"end":4728.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4728.979718750001,"end":4735.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4735.66221875,"end":4740.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4740.404093749999,"end":4740.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4740.876593749999,"end":4743.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4743.71159375,"end":4744.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4744.89284375,"end":4758.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4757.21159375,"end":4798.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4781.46096875,"end":4781.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4798.75784375,"end":4818.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4818.6365937499995,"end":4820.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4821.01596875,"end":4829.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4829.72346875,"end":4830.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4831.7147187499995,"end":4851.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4857.229718750001,"end":4857.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4857.85409375,"end":4874.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4868.36721875,"end":4868.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4875.184718750001,"end":4876.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4876.0115937499995,"end":4880.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4878.559718750001,"end":4881.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4880.2978437500005,"end":4900.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4901.3240937499995,"end":4905.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4902.0497187500005,"end":4906.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4905.745343750001,"end":4906.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4906.167218750001,"end":4917.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4918.300343750001,"end":4930.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4918.33409375,"end":4918.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4930.720343749999,"end":4932.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4933.4540937500005,"end":4941.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4942.14471875,"end":4961.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4961.196593750001,"end":4965.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4965.38159375,"end":4965.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4965.651593750001,"end":4965.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4965.735968749999,"end":4976.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4968.57096875,"end":4968.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4976.58659375,"end":4981.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4981.817843750001,"end":4994.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4995.317843750001,"end":5000.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4999.9247187500005,"end":5010.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5010.0497187500005,"end":5018.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5011.8553437499995,"end":5012.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5016.34409375,"end":5023.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5018.436593750001,"end":5021.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5023.38096875,"end":5033.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5033.708468750001,"end":5050.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5033.91096875,"end":5034.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5036.17221875,"end":5038.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5039.20971875,"end":5041.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5043.327218750001,"end":5044.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5049.8240937499995,"end":5059.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5051.17409375,"end":5052.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5055.07221875,"end":5055.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5055.932843750001,"end":5064.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5065.484093749999,"end":5095.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5096.669093750001,"end":5104.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5105.78159375,"end":5106.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5106.743468750001,"end":5121.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5122.74096875,"end":5124.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5125.255343750001,"end":5130.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5136.359093749999,"end":5136.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5137.810343749999,"end":5139.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5139.21096875,"end":5139.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5139.497843749999,"end":5146.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5146.872218750001,"end":5147.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5147.1590937500005,"end":5148.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5149.09971875,"end":5149.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5150.63534375,"end":5155.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5155.579718749999,"end":5163.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5164.1522187499995,"end":5165.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5165.16471875,"end":5165.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5165.35034375,"end":5167.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5167.307843750001,"end":5171.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5171.796593749999,"end":5173.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5173.99034375,"end":5175.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5176.015343749999,"end":5177.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5178.7997187500005,"end":5184.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5185.60034375,"end":5196.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5196.417218750001,"end":5198.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5199.33659375,"end":5217.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5215.6884687500005,"end":5223.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5222.92784375,"end":5223.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5223.974093750001,"end":5235.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5224.294718749999,"end":5224.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5226.927218750001,"end":5227.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5233.84596875,"end":5248.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5248.1728437500005,"end":5249.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5248.864718750001,"end":5248.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5249.03346875,"end":5249.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5249.235968749999,"end":5254.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5253.977843750001,"end":5256.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5254.88909375,"end":5260.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5258.804093750001,"end":5262.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5262.0272187499995,"end":5262.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5262.972218750001,"end":5263.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5263.157843749999,"end":5272.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5268.6590937500005,"end":5268.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5272.489718750001,"end":5273.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5274.126593749999,"end":5275.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5276.40471875,"end":5277.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5278.024718750001,"end":5278.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5278.83471875,"end":5280.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5281.19721875,"end":5290.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5292.216593749999,"end":5293.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5294.292218750001,"end":5297.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5299.50659375,"end":5300.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5300.434718750001,"end":5300.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5300.77221875,"end":5306.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5306.96534375,"end":5312.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5311.50471875,"end":5312.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5328.413468750001,"end":5330.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5335.80471875,"end":5344.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5345.339093750001,"end":5346.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5352.122843749999,"end":5387.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5352.561593750001,"end":5353.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5386.83471875,"end":5387.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5387.340968750001,"end":5387.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5387.45909375,"end":5567.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5567.565968750001,"end":5567.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5567.97096875,"end":5585.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5583.68159375,"end":5586.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5585.36909375,"end":5617.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5617.27971875,"end":5651.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5651.384093750001,"end":5656.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5656.14284375,"end":5660.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5660.88471875,"end":5667.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5667.56721875,"end":5672.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5673.2372187500005,"end":5720.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5720.436593750001,"end":5720.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5720.622218750001,"end":5749.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5751.30096875,"end":5765.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5766.10034375,"end":5775.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5776.259093750001,"end":5922.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5782.46909375,"end":5782.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5790.67034375,"end":5790.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5790.75471875,"end":5790.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5923.13909375,"end":5973.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5958.25596875,"end":5958.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5958.930968750001,"end":5960.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5973.595343750001,"end":5979.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5980.17659375,"end":5981.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5985.9647187499995,"end":6010.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6010.70346875,"end":6014.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6013.99409375,"end":6016.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6016.89659375,"end":6032.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6031.358468750001,"end":6037.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6037.484093749999,"end":6037.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6037.51784375,"end":6037.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6037.585343750001,"end":6047.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6047.423468750001,"end":6071.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6049.077218750001,"end":6052.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6059.151593750001,"end":6062.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6070.93034375,"end":6079.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6075.25034375,"end":6075.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6077.5115937499995,"end":6085.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6082.55721875,"end":6096.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6095.87159375,"end":6098.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6097.94721875,"end":6117.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6100.00596875,"end":6104.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6108.510968750001,"end":6111.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6112.08846875,"end":6112.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6114.029093749999,"end":6114.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6115.0584687499995,"end":6115.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6116.054093750001,"end":6139.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6123.276593750001,"end":6125.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6125.79096875,"end":6125.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6125.942843750001,"end":6126.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6127.09034375,"end":6128.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6132.507218750001,"end":6138.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6139.98284375,"end":6147.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6146.294093750001,"end":6151.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6148.89284375,"end":6150.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6150.85034375,"end":6202.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6151.8290937500005,"end":6153.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6201.6103437500005,"end":6204.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6203.669093750001,"end":6243.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6206.68971875,"end":6209.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6242.1103437500005,"end":6245.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6245.55284375,"end":6245.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6245.60346875,"end":6247.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6245.63721875,"end":6246.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6250.210343750001,"end":6255.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6264.4022187499995,"end":6267.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6272.9072187500005,"end":6273.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6273.227843750001,"end":6273.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6273.6834687499995,"end":6273.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6273.700343750001,"end":6297.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6298.97909375,"end":6315.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6315.314093750001,"end":6343.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6344.237843750001,"end":6377.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6378.47721875,"end":6403.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6404.194718750001,"end":6405.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6405.34221875,"end":6414.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6415.7372187500005,"end":6430.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6430.65471875,"end":6438.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6439.00784375,"end":6448.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6449.58846875,"end":6464.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6465.315968750001,"end":6485.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6486.1903437500005,"end":6494.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6495.01596875,"end":6510.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6498.559718750001,"end":6498.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6498.76221875,"end":6498.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6510.3553437499995,"end":6547.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6547.919093750001,"end":6549.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6549.505343750001,"end":6559.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6559.90034375,"end":6569.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6569.92409375,"end":6582.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6582.25971875,"end":6582.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6582.327218750001,"end":6623.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6589.56659375,"end":6590.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6624.362843750001,"end":6630.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6636.9178437499995,"end":6637.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6637.55909375,"end":6652.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6652.780343750001,"end":6659.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6655.952843749999,"end":6657.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6659.3447187500005,"end":6682.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6676.69221875,"end":6677.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6677.26596875,"end":6677.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6683.138468749999,"end":6683.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6683.155343750001,"end":6692.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6693.24659375,"end":6696.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6696.739718750001,"end":6708.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6707.708468750001,"end":6709.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6709.109093749999,"end":6709.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6709.75034375,"end":6711.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6711.15096875,"end":6755.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6712.163468750001,"end":6713.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6713.36159375,"end":6713.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6713.378468750001,"end":6713.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6755.3465937500005,"end":6756.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6756.173468750001,"end":6760.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6759.61596875,"end":6763.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6760.61159375,"end":6761.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6761.100968750001,"end":6776.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6775.765343749999,"end":6776.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6776.92971875,"end":6782.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6782.83596875,"end":6787.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6786.48096875,"end":6788.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6788.759093750001,"end":6789.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6789.450968749999,"end":6813.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6796.74096875,"end":6797.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6803.40659375,"end":6803.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6813.80159375,"end":6814.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6813.85221875,"end":6829.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6830.67659375,"end":6845.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6846.6572187500005,"end":6859.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6847.18034375,"end":6848.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6858.874718749999,"end":6879.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6880.069718750001,"end":6900.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6900.505343750001,"end":6900.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6900.741593750001,"end":6902.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6902.39534375,"end":6916.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6917.49846875,"end":6919.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6920.16471875,"end":6926.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6926.3915937500005,"end":6928.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6928.9228437500005,"end":6934.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6935.099093750001,"end":6955.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6958.92659375,"end":6964.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6964.42784375,"end":6965.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6967.41471875,"end":6967.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6974.940968750001,"end":6980.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6980.3240937499995,"end":6980.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6980.54346875,"end":6985.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6983.530343750001,"end":6984.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6985.960343750001,"end":6986.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6985.97721875,"end":6985.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6986.010968750001,"end":6992.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6990.82034375,"end":6991.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6992.49096875,"end":6992.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6992.59221875,"end":6995.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6992.609093750001,"end":6992.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6992.64284375,"end":6992.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6995.562218750001,"end":6999.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7000.2197187500005,"end":7000.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7002.497843749999,"end":7005.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7006.24409375,"end":7028.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7028.78909375,"end":7034.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7034.8134687500005,"end":7050.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7051.04721875,"end":7052.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7052.4647187499995,"end":7053.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7054.1522187499995,"end":7055.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7056.835343750001,"end":7057.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7057.66221875,"end":7058.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7059.180968750001,"end":7060.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7059.366593750001,"end":7059.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7060.294718749999,"end":7063.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7063.264718750001,"end":7064.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7063.669718749999,"end":7070.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7064.41221875,"end":7064.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7064.54721875,"end":7064.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7064.73284375,"end":7064.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7064.749718750001,"end":7064.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7070.470343750001,"end":7074.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7074.85784375,"end":7075.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7075.93784375,"end":7077.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7077.99659375,"end":7082.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7083.126593750001,"end":7086.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7086.366593750001,"end":7090.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7091.44596875,"end":7092.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7092.57659375,"end":7096.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7097.40284375,"end":7098.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7098.7528437500005,"end":7105.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7106.481593750001,"end":7107.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7107.7978437500005,"end":7110.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7110.29534375,"end":7115.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7115.796593750001,"end":7117.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7117.60221875,"end":7117.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7117.635968750001,"end":7118.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7118.02409375,"end":7119.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7119.036593750001,"end":7119.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7119.05346875,"end":7119.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7119.407843750001,"end":7119.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7119.66096875,"end":7120.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7119.71159375,"end":7120.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7120.75784375,"end":7121.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7121.02784375,"end":7121.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7121.044718749999,"end":7121.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7121.061593750001,"end":7121.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7121.07846875,"end":7121.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7121.567843750001,"end":7121.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7121.669093750001,"end":7121.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7121.92221875,"end":7124.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7121.97284375,"end":7122.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7122.1415937500005,"end":7122.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7124.200343750001,"end":7130.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7130.96721875,"end":7131.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7131.99659375,"end":7132.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7132.75596875,"end":7139.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7135.37159375,"end":7135.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7139.21909375,"end":7143.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7139.91096875,"end":7143.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7143.6572187500005,"end":7148.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7147.3865937499995,"end":7158.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7159.215968750001,"end":7166.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7166.97846875,"end":7169.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7169.50971875,"end":7186.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7187.144093750001,"end":7190.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7190.4853437500005,"end":7191.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7191.85221875,"end":7193.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7193.64096875,"end":7201.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7201.36971875,"end":7202.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7202.888468749999,"end":7205.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7206.600968750001,"end":7209.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7211.562218750001,"end":7212.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7213.637843750001,"end":7214.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7214.3465937500005,"end":7215.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7215.510968750001,"end":7215.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7215.595343750001,"end":7216.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7215.645968750001,"end":7215.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7217.4853437500005,"end":7218.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7219.020968750001,"end":7221.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7221.90659375,"end":7223.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7225.70346875,"end":7229.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7230.360968750001,"end":7231.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7231.47471875,"end":7234.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7233.837218750001,"end":7236.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7235.08596875,"end":7235.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7236.25034375,"end":7236.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7237.7353437500005,"end":7243.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7243.89471875,"end":7244.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7245.936593750001,"end":7246.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7247.573468750001,"end":7253.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7254.458468750001,"end":7254.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7254.47534375,"end":7254.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7254.9647187499995,"end":7255.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7255.0322187500005,"end":7256.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7256.34846875,"end":7260.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7262.25471875,"end":7264.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7264.954718750001,"end":7266.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7267.73909375,"end":7267.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7268.31284375,"end":7269.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7271.012843750001,"end":7271.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7272.649718750001,"end":7277.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7277.3240937499995,"end":7278.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7278.370343750001,"end":7279.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7280.952218750001,"end":7281.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7282.15034375,"end":7283.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7283.68596875,"end":7284.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7285.913468750001,"end":7287.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7288.866593750001,"end":7290.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7291.85346875,"end":7292.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7293.642218750001,"end":7294.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7294.6209687499995,"end":7295.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7295.903468750001,"end":7312.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7313.30159375,"end":7318.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7319.140343750001,"end":7323.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7323.62909375,"end":7334.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7335.222218750001,"end":7347.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7347.30471875,"end":7354.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7354.679093750001,"end":7360.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7361.192843750001,"end":7364.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7364.73659375,"end":7368.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7368.56721875,"end":7397.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7398.30096875,"end":7400.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7398.317843750001,"end":7399.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7400.44409375,"end":7405.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7403.7684687500005,"end":7412.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7412.425343750001,"end":7416.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7416.47534375,"end":7419.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7420.305968750001,"end":7421.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7421.79096875,"end":7429.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7423.680968750001,"end":7424.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7430.49846875,"end":7430.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7430.5322187500005,"end":7438.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7430.565968750001,"end":7432.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7438.952843750001,"end":7443.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7444.0322187500005,"end":7444.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7444.97721875,"end":7457.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7457.81909375,"end":7458.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7459.47284375,"end":7461.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7461.85221875,"end":7468.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7468.46721875,"end":7484.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7484.481593750001,"end":7496.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7497.23909375,"end":7498.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7498.94346875,"end":7499.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7500.19221875,"end":7501.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7501.79534375,"end":7504.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7504.98471875,"end":7506.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7507.78596875,"end":7510.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7510.0809687500005,"end":7510.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7510.51971875,"end":7511.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7511.717843750001,"end":7511.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7512.7978437500005,"end":7512.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7512.81471875,"end":7513.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7513.55721875,"end":7523.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7523.935343749999,"end":7526.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7527.29346875,"end":7562.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7563.270968750001,"end":7563.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7563.28784375,"end":7564.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7565.21159375,"end":7568.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7568.40096875,"end":7569.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7570.27409375,"end":7572.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7572.75471875,"end":7575.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7575.134093750001,"end":7578.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7578.62721875,"end":7582.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7582.4072187500005,"end":7585.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7585.259093750001,"end":7588.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7589.49471875,"end":7592.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7593.24096875,"end":7594.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7595.046593750001,"end":7596.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7596.9872187500005,"end":7600.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7601.27346875,"end":7602.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7603.062218750001,"end":7604.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7605.323468750001,"end":7607.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7607.702843750001,"end":7608.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7609.10346875,"end":7610.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7611.179093750001,"end":7616.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7617.372218750001,"end":7622.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7622.468468750001,"end":7629.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7629.67409375,"end":7631.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7631.41221875,"end":7637.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7637.55471875,"end":7642.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7642.56659375,"end":7651.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7651.32471875,"end":7653.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7653.450968749999,"end":7655.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7655.847218750001,"end":7667.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7667.845343750001,"end":7668.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7669.17846875,"end":7675.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7676.856593750001,"end":7677.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7678.206593750001,"end":7680.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7680.974093750001,"end":7682.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7683.57284375,"end":7685.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7685.327843750001,"end":7692.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7695.4697187500005,"end":7696.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7697.62971875,"end":7700.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7708.80096875,"end":7711.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7712.7665937500005,"end":7713.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7717.575968749999,"end":7800.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7800.786593750001,"end":7813.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7814.82659375,"end":7825.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7825.7615937499995,"end":7829.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7829.82846875,"end":7839.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7840.628468750001,"end":7841.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7841.97846875,"end":7849.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7849.0322187500005,"end":7849.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7849.36971875,"end":7849.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7849.403468750001,"end":7849.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7849.47096875,"end":7849.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7849.724093750001,"end":7849.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7849.84221875,"end":7869.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7870.46346875,"end":7875.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7870.530968750001,"end":7871.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7872.555968750001,"end":7876.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7877.17971875,"end":7888.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7888.722218750001,"end":7891.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7891.97909375,"end":7892.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7892.55284375,"end":7893.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7895.050343750001,"end":7895.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7895.97846875,"end":7896.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7896.06284375,"end":7896.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7896.56909375,"end":7896.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7896.58596875,"end":7896.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7896.923468750001,"end":7898.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7899.404093749999,"end":7900.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7900.821593750001,"end":7902.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7902.9647187499995,"end":7910.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7908.98909375,"end":7909.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7910.03534375,"end":7910.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7911.030968750001,"end":7953.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7953.38721875,"end":7954.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7954.78784375,"end":7955.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7954.80471875,"end":7956.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7956.593468750001,"end":7958.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7958.888468749999,"end":7978.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7978.83471875,"end":7983.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7983.01971875,"end":7983.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7984.116593750001,"end":7986.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7986.58034375,"end":7987.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7987.79534375,"end":8006.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8006.35784375,"end":8006.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8006.40846875,"end":8010.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8010.76221875,"end":8023.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8023.857218750001,"end":8031.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8028.71721875,"end":8030.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8031.079718750001,"end":8031.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8031.501593750001,"end":8035.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8034.4715937500005,"end":8040.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8040.02346875,"end":8054.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8040.24284375,"end":8040.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8046.58784375,"end":8046.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8054.704718750001,"end":8061.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8061.72471875,"end":8064.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8064.745343750001,"end":8071.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8064.76221875,"end":8065.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8068.32284375,"end":8069.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8072.40659375,"end":8084.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8077.75596875,"end":8078.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8084.53971875,"end":8084.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8084.8603437500005,"end":8086.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8085.0965937500005,"end":8093.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8093.02784375,"end":8093.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8093.77034375,"end":8093.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8093.97284375,"end":8094.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8094.9853437500005,"end":8100.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8101.904093750001,"end":8111.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8111.97846875,"end":8112.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8113.260968750001,"end":8113.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8113.27784375,"end":8123.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8118.52596875,"end":8119.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8119.89284375,"end":8126.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8124.8709687499995,"end":8126.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8126.72721875,"end":8126.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8126.82846875,"end":8127.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8127.030968750001,"end":8127.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8127.267218750001,"end":8128.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8128.026593750001,"end":8181.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8131.485968750001,"end":8131.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8136.19409375,"end":8137.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8140.733468750001,"end":8140.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8182.532843750001,"end":8183.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8185.41846875,"end":8185.435343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8185.435343750001,"end":8193.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8191.020968750001,"end":8192.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8194.88534375,"end":8198.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8199.120968750001,"end":8202.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8202.394718750002,"end":8202.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8202.816593750002,"end":8245.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8245.81409375,"end":8274.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8248.09221875,"end":8248.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8257.22159375,"end":8257.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8257.339718750001,"end":8257.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8275.31159375,"end":8293.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8293.75596875,"end":8294.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8294.835968750001,"end":8369.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8371.718468750001,"end":8378.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8379.04221875,"end":8386.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8387.05784375,"end":8392.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8392.407218750002,"end":8397.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8398.515968750002,"end":8399.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8400.33846875,"end":8403.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8412.37034375,"end":8432.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8433.008468750002,"end":8463.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8463.957218750002,"end":8465.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8465.56034375,"end":8550.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8552.972843750002,"end":8553.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8556.499718750001,"end":8573.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8573.45909375,"end":8573.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8573.57721875,"end":8573.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8573.89784375,"end":8614.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8614.92096875,"end":8617.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8617.367843750002,"end":8668.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8618.76846875,"end":8619.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8621.097218750001,"end":8621.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8668.80284375,"end":8677.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8678.387843750003,"end":8684.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8684.125343750002,"end":8686.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8685.914093750001,"end":8690.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8688.546593750001,"end":8697.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8697.675968750002,"end":8700.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8700.679718750001,"end":8703.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8703.801593750002,"end":8710.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8708.864093750002,"end":8722.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8721.60471875,"end":8727.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8727.696593750003,"end":8749.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8733.754718750002,"end":8735.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8757.902843750002,"end":8793.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8793.32346875,"end":8807.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8803.566593750002,"end":8804.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8805.01784375,"end":8820.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8820.84659375,"end":8825.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8825.36909375,"end":8825.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8825.723468750002,"end":8852.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8851.710968750001,"end":8856.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8856.68909375,"end":8859.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8861.886593750001,"end":8880.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8880.027218750001,"end":8880.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8881.12409375,"end":8886.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8885.84909375,"end":8888.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8887.688468750002,"end":8925.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8918.13096875,"end":8918.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8921.57346875,"end":8944.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8932.289093750001,"end":8933.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8936.305343750002,"end":8936.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8944.13534375,"end":8946.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8948.92784375,"end":8970.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8967.675968750002,"end":8974.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8971.82721875,"end":8998.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8997.02159375,"end":9000.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8999.940968750001,"end":9001.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9001.61159375,"end":9008.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9008.125343750002,"end":9025.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9015.094718750002,"end":9015.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9015.31409375,"end":9015.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9015.38159375,"end":9015.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9026.33346875,"end":9056.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9029.62409375,"end":9030.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9038.68596875,"end":9039.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9039.15846875,"end":9039.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9039.614093750002,"end":9039.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9039.968468750001,"end":9042.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9047.24159375,"end":9047.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9047.74784375,"end":9048.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9048.65909375,"end":9053.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9054.362843750001,"end":9151.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9058.34534375,"end":9058.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9152.254718750002,"end":9153.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9153.60471875,"end":9194.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9184.97534375,"end":9185.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9185.02596875,"end":9185.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9185.07659375,"end":9186.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9186.055343750002,"end":9190.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9193.007843750001,"end":9248.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9195.42096875,"end":9203.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9225.239093750002,"end":9227.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9229.37346875,"end":9234.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9234.992843750002,"end":9237.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9237.895343750002,"end":9238.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9246.737843750001,"end":9252.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9252.67784375,"end":9270.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9256.17096875,"end":9256.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9256.20471875,"end":9256.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9256.57596875,"end":9256.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9260.035343750002,"end":9260.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9262.54971875,"end":9278.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9270.109718750002,"end":9270.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9270.278468750003,"end":9270.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9270.97034375,"end":9271.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9277.34909375,"end":9277.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9277.36596875,"end":9278.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9280.487843750001,"end":9298.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9299.016593750002,"end":9306.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9307.52159375,"end":9308.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9309.765968750002,"end":9311.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9312.550343750001,"end":9316.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9316.836593750002,"end":9326.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9328.058468750001,"end":9339.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9339.36471875,"end":9346.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9346.249718750001,"end":9346.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9346.587218750003,"end":9347.464718750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1587.182,"end":1601.399,"text":"報告委員會初席委員六人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會好委員還有在座的長官們大家好那我們現在開會首先先進行報告事項請先宣讀上次的會議議事錄"},{"start":1602.779,"end":1627.592,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期司法及法治委員會第二十次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年六月二十四日星期三上午九時至十一時二十九分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員陳昭思委員等十二人列席委員鍾嘉斌委員等四人列席官員考試院副秘書長吳美虹等人主席翁昭吉委員小林"},{"start":1628.232,"end":1643.696,"text":"報告事項一選出上次會議議事錄決定確定二邀請考試院秘書長全區部部長行政院人事行政總處教育部勞動部針對我國育嬰留職停薪實施成效與擴大育嬰津貼政策進行專題報告並被質詢決定報告及詢答完畢討論事項"},{"start":1647.817,"end":1670.665,"text":"殯案審查委員羅志強等19人擬拒公教人員保險法第35條條文修正草案等5案本次會議由委員林佩祥等9人提出質詢委員蔡其昌等4人提出書面質詢決議一報告及詢答完畢令定期繼續審查二委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1674.642,"end":1699.655,"text":"那麼我們議事錄稍後再確定那接著我先介紹現在到場的委員我們有陳昭芝委員那麼今天應邀列席的官員有司法院的秘書長高金志剛秘書長考試院的劉建興秘書長監察院的黃士卓黃秘書長還有王負面也來了接下來就是法務部的鄭明謙正部長"},{"start":1700.896,"end":1713.396,"text":"那今天有三個獨立機關有公平教育委員會的毛浩吉主任秘書國家通訊傳播委員會的魏俊榆主秘好 謝謝然後中央選舉委員會的謝敏玲 謝主秘"},{"start":1716.909,"end":1746.166,"text":"那本次議程的排定是我國憲政機關獨立機關首長代理制度的現況與精進專題報告及詢答那我們現在就先進行報告那每位發言的時間是三分鐘那麼我們就由待會我們就請這個司法院的秘書長高秘書長來報告然後接下來就是考試院劉金信劉秘書長然後監察院黃士卓黃秘書長以及法務部的鄭明謙正部長然後依序來進行報告好謝謝那首先先請高秘書長"},{"start":1753.636,"end":1782.331,"text":"主席各位委員各位先進今天封邀列席貴委員會就我國憲政機關獨立機關首長代理制度之現況與經濟代表司法院進行專利報告請說明本院意見如下一司法院組織法第七條第五項規定司法院院長出缺且無司法院副院長並於繼任人選會能適時產生時由總統就大法官中指定一人代理院長"},{"start":1783.432,"end":1790.214,"text":"其代理期間至總統提名 繼任院長 副院長 經立法院同意總統任命之日為止"},{"start":1791.667,"end":1819.032,"text":"逐漸司法院代理院長系經貴院行使統一權後由總統任命之大法官擔任現行代理制度並未剝奪貴院的國會監督權而且具備民主正當性是屬於合法合憲本院代理院長謝明陽大法官於108年獲總統提名並經貴院行使統一權就任後任期8年因為"},{"start":1820.632,"end":1847.085,"text":"113年11月起本院院長副院長選缺謝大法官依前開規定經總統指定代理本院院長職務至今這段期間本院在謝代理院長帶領下積極推展書記官人力改善司法行政流程改造訴訟程序革新AI輔助審判及電子卷宗改革等"},{"start":1848.666,"end":1877.242,"text":"重要革新業務並持續進行國際司法交流依法提出年度施政計畫及編列相關預算本院目前各項司法行政及審判業務均在謝代理院長的帶領下穩健運行為確保司法最高機關之順利運作設有憲法法院之德國、西班牙、韓國、義大利、奧地利等國家之院長代理機制"},{"start":1877.922,"end":1894.667,"text":"都是採取資歷年長等客觀自動產生之標準並未設定代理期間或次數任何限制本院現行代理制度與這些國家的制度相同都是為了讓司法穩定運作本院因為司法院長統一權行使的政治僵局正部院長未能出任"},{"start":1906.111,"end":1925.205,"text":"貴院委員會憂心司法權能否穩定運作重視現行代理制度本院深感敬佩但是代理制度的功能是在於確保司法權穩定運作司法院長能否順利產生端礙行政"},{"start":1926.205,"end":1951.318,"text":"與立法兩權的折衝協力與司法院長代理制度沒有關係也不可能透過改變現行代理制度化解政治僵局司法乃國家根基其獨立性必須時刻捍衛重大司法政策需要長期的規劃與延續代理院長的領導威信以及所負擔的司法課則應該要以確保"},{"start":1953.739,"end":1980.023,"text":"現行代理制度以發揮司法穩定運作的功能並使司法免受政治干擾如果貿然改變縮短代理期限勢必使司法行政陷入不安各項政策無法進行維持現行代理制度才是符合國家利益與人民權益"},{"start":1980.663,"end":1988.811,"text":"以上報告敬請各位委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝高明署長那接下來我們就有請考試院的劉秘書長來進行說明 謝謝"},{"start":1995.728,"end":2015.893,"text":"謝謝昭緯跟貴委員會的邀請今天讓我們就本院的首長代理制度來做一個簡要的說明首先我先講一個憲政上的背景就是說在我們我國的憲法的徵修條文裡面它對於司法院跟監察院的院長跟副院長的規範它都是分別由大法官跟監察委員來擔任"},{"start":2017.253,"end":2042.847,"text":"但是舊本院的部分 舊台灣第六條本院是設院長、副院長各一人以及考試委員若干人也就是說在本院比較特別跟另外兩院不太一樣的就是我們的院長、正副院長都沒有考試委員的資格和身份那這個是在憲政上面規範比較不一樣的地方那另外舊組織法裡面的這個出缺的代理機制"},{"start":2043.507,"end":2070.814,"text":"那也有一些不同在司法院組織法跟監察院的組織法裡面都有明文的去規定說院長出缺由副院長代理正副院長同時出缺就由總統就大法官或監察委員中指定一人來代理院長不過考試院的組織法裡面並沒有做這樣的明確的規定那只有講到說當院長沒有出缺但是因故不能逝世的時候由副院長來代行其職權那"},{"start":2072.975,"end":2090.051,"text":"但過去在實踐上面雖然法無明文規定但是我們歷來也有曾經發生院長出缺的狀況那也都依照我們的潛力都是由副院長來代理雖然法律裡並沒有那麼明確的說明但實務上的運作也是照這樣的機制來"},{"start":2091.512,"end":2118.627,"text":"運行那至於有委員但沒有正副院長的狀況是還沒有發生過那所以綜合以上的這些說明我想本院組織法如果能夠參考現在現行的司法院監察院組織法能夠明文來做這個首長出缺的這個代理機制的話我想一方面其一我們憲政獨立機關限定獨立機關的首長代理制度另外未來如果真的有相關類似的情形在實務上面也比較不會產生"},{"start":2122.749,"end":2141.021,"text":"這個產生的實務爭議那至於是不是要對代理的期限做一個限制做一個法定的限制呢我想這個部分應該要考量到機關運作的穩定度還有頻繁更換代理首長的行政成本來做審慎的斟酌那以上簡要報告謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝劉秘書長那接下來我們有請監察院黃秘書長"},{"start":2153.792,"end":2171.419,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士先生 大家好事主人榮幸應邀到貴委員會就我國憲政機關獨立機關首長代理資助之現況與經濟進行專題報告僅提出說明如下 進行主席 各位委員會議赤教"},{"start":2172.418,"end":2194.939,"text":"第一,本院為憲法所定最高監察機關,院長、副院長及監察委員均須由總統提名並經貴院同意後,使得任命。依據憲法徵修條第七條第一項及第二項規定,監察院為國家最高監察機關,行使彈劾、糾舉以及審計權。"},{"start":2198.002,"end":2215.589,"text":"監察院設監察委員二十九人,並以其中一人為院長,一人為副院長,任期六年,由總統提名,經立法院同意任命之。是以本院為憲法所設置並賦予特殊職權之國家憲法機關。"},{"start":2217.352,"end":2244.833,"text":"院長 副院長及監察委員之任命均需由總統提名並經貴院同意後 使得任命另依大法官釋字第632號解釋總統於當屆監察院院長 副院長及監察委員任期屆滿前應適時提名繼任人選 知請貴院同意貴院應依應適時行使同意權以維繫監察院之正常運行"},{"start":2245.874,"end":2272.664,"text":"第二本院首長代理制度已於監察院組織法法定有相關的規範依監察院組織法第六條規定監察院長因事故不能逝世時由副院長代理其職務第二項監察院院長出缺時由副院長代理其代理期間至總統提名繼任院長經立法院同意總統任命之日為止第三項"},{"start":2274.279,"end":2297.416,"text":"監察院院長、副院長同時出缺時由總統就監察委員中指定一人代理院長其代理期間至總統提名繼任院長、副院長經立法院同意總統任命之日為止第四項監察院院長、副院長及監察委員出缺時其繼任人之任期至原任期屆滿之日為止"},{"start":2298.377,"end":2320.996,"text":"是以現行法制已就本院院長因故不能逝世出缺及本院院長副院長同時出缺等情形建立了相關代理及銜接制度以確保本院院務運作及憲政職權行使之延續性第三有關本院首長代理制度是否需否增列特定代理期限"},{"start":2322.233,"end":2339.303,"text":"建請在於沈聖衡卓經查主席於民國一百一十五年五月提出監察院組織法第六條條文修正草案你修正該條第三項使院長副院長同時出缺時代理院長"},{"start":2340.444,"end":2355.352,"text":"之監察委員其代理期間不得於6個月且卸任代理院長之監察員不得在代理院長部分經查現行各院組織法就首長之代理並無再增列6個月等特定代理期限監察委員"},{"start":2356.132,"end":2371.579,"text":"即系依法由總統提名並經貴院同意後任命則監察院組織法源規定將不自身迴避正式提名及貴院同意程序使未經憲法程序同意任命之人卻得以長期實質"},{"start":2373.52,"end":2393.743,"text":"行使本院院長職權之情形又因提名權及同意權之行使分屬總統及貴院各自之憲法之權恐難以修正組織法之法律程序增加代理期間限制強制憲政機關於一定期間內完成正式提名及同意程序且院長肩負"},{"start":2394.324,"end":2422.599,"text":"院務統籌及對外代表等重要職責如頻繁更替代理人恐對院務推展之穩定性及政策之延續性產生影響令堂總統提名並經貴院同意由總統任命之監察委員均以代理院長各六個月後而該屆監察員任期尚未屆滿自身無人得在代理院長之情形亦恐影響本院業務之正常運作及憲政機關職權之行使"},{"start":2426.462,"end":2449.059,"text":"基於本院出缺之代理及地補機制現已明定於監察院組織法及相關法令中相關規範施行迄今運作上行順暢實務上亦未發生因代理制度不完備而影響院務推動之情形未來如預相關情形本院將持續依相關法令規定辦理確保"},{"start":2450.26,"end":2466.036,"text":"院務運作之連續性及組織功能之穩定性市長在此感謝貴院對本院之支持以上報告敬請執照 謝謝好 謝謝黃秘書長 謝謝那接下來我們有請法務部的政部長進行報告 謝謝"},{"start":2475.089,"end":2497.443,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天奉邀列席貴委員會就我國憲政機關獨立機關首長代理制度署憲科以精進代表本部列席報告並備資訊自報告如下 敬請指教那中央憲政機關組織基本法第三條第二款對獨立機關的定義有所規定最高檢察署並非中央憲政機關組織法"},{"start":2499.454,"end":2518.206,"text":"基準法規定的獨立機關違法院組織法第六十六條規定檢查中長須經總統提名立法院同意使得任命且依法獨立行使檢查權不受一般行政指導監督因此其職務的獨立性核心功能與獨立機關首長具有相當的共通性"},{"start":2518.866,"end":2544.44,"text":"有關司法院監察院考試院之憲政機關或是公平教育委員會國家通訊傳播委員會之獨立機關其首長除缺時在香港組織法定有代理的相關規範最高檢察署檢察中長須非憲政機關或中央行政機關組織基本法所定之獨立機關為檢察權行使有其獨立性因此最高檢察署檢察中長"},{"start":2545.861,"end":2572.323,"text":"職務出缺的時候 其代理機制亦可參考上開憲政機關代理規定的憲政原理本部於檢查總長出缺時 實務上已有機遇於上開憲政原理本於人事任命權與指派代理權之全員統一建立陳情總統指派代理之慣例與法律運作的模式歷年包含陳崇明總長 黃世明總長請辭以及近期邢太昭總長謝子登案"},{"start":2573.245,"end":2583.822,"text":"經依此慣例只派最適人選代理注意因應過渡期確保非常商戶等核心業務不致中斷建議歷次檢查總統出缺現行運作之代理"},{"start":2584.713,"end":2610.129,"text":"制度僅能夠保障人民疏通權利並維持國家機關正常運作目前並無推動修法增訂規範的急迫性與必要性未來適合增訂相關條文本部尊重主管機關意見維生除了代理機制本屬過度的行政處置有關代理人的資格條件及代理期間建請通盤考量機關功能及實務運作的需要參考司法院處置法或是"},{"start":2610.729,"end":2636.68,"text":"兼草原組織法的規範以立機關整體的穩定運作以上報告敬請主席及各位委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝部長那麼我們現在就開始進行詢答那本會委員 喔 抱歉喔那麼因為還有今天還有其他三位三個獨立機關的代表那麼我想因為基於時間的考量所以呢如果說三位有沒有要進行叩頭報告或書面報告的"},{"start":2638,"end":2662.374,"text":"沒有的話我們就機關代表的報告就完畢我們相關書面內容我們就請各位參閱並列入公報記錄那接下來我們就進行詢答那本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10點30分截止發言登記接下來我們就請登記第一位的陳昭志委員發言"},{"start":2668.292,"end":2683.75,"text":"謝謝主席,有請司法院秘書長、考試院秘書長、監察院秘書長、公平會毛主秘、NCC溫主秘跟中選會謝主秘好,有請這些部會首長們可以到前方"},{"start":2692.618,"end":2721,"text":"好 謝謝主席首先請教這個司法院高祖密請問司法院院長出缺代理人選是否為大法官是否有法律層級的制度來規範代理人請你回答是或不是是的是 好 謝謝謝謝高秘書長請問考試院劉秘書長請問考試院院長出缺代理人選是否需為考試委員是否有法律層級的制度來規範代理人目前沒有"},{"start":2721.701,"end":2736.481,"text":"目前沒有沒有法律層級的制度來規範代理人對但是是需要有考試委員來出任目前就是因為組織法裡面好 那考試院的組織法是還有缺口的好 我了解 好"},{"start":2737.282,"end":2761.898,"text":"那請教監察院黃秘書長請問監察院長出缺代理人是否需要為監察委員是否有法律層級的制度規範代理人好 謝謝請問公平會的毛祖密這個公平會主委出缺的時候代理人是否需要為公平會委員是否有法律層級的制度來規範代理人好 謝謝毛祖密"},{"start":2762.731,"end":2784.054,"text":"請問NCC的主委 溫主委主委出缺的時候 代理人是否需要NCC委員是否需要有法律層級的制度來規範代理人是的 現行就有好 謝謝溫主秘請教中選會的謝主秘請問中選會主委出缺的時候 代理人是否需要"},{"start":2785.336,"end":2794.754,"text":"為中選會委員是否有法律層級的制度來規範代理人是好謝謝謝謝祖密好各位請回好現在麻煩請法務部部長"},{"start":2803.021,"end":2831.487,"text":"陳部長你因為我時間這麼早我請問你一邊聽法務部請教部長當檢查總長出缺的時候為什麼沒有法律層級的制度規範代理人如何選出來今天剛剛法務部的報告承認檢查總長的代理人選一直以來都是用慣例慣例處理連最基本的辦法都沒有那您在這個報告中今天交出來報告中寫的是檢查總長是特任官"},{"start":2832.647,"end":2836.45,"text":"也不是理由 為什麼呢 我舉個例子公平會主委也是特任官但是在公平會組織法第五條就有寫了當主委出缺的時候是由副主委代理那其他的組織法 剛剛這個考試院考試院可能也有一個缺口"},{"start":2848.977,"end":2870.757,"text":"那其他的機關的組織法也有類似的規定所以就只有這個最重要的是檢查總長的代理沒有法律層級的規範連最基本的辦法都沒有所以今天法務部的報告我覺得在理由上說不過去我要強調的是台灣是個法治國家結果最懂法律的最該懂法治原國的法務部缺乏法治"},{"start":2874.94,"end":2895.547,"text":"習慣把這個慣例作為理所當然我認為這是非常危險的認知所以部長我想請教你立法院已經否決的檢查總長被提名人徐錫翔的人事案但賴總統卻指定他作為指定一個被國會否決的人來代理請問部長你認為這樣適合嗎"},{"start":2900.603,"end":2925.492,"text":"請你回答我是不適合這個我們想是代理人因為我們那個總統提名的檢查總長的人選當然未獲大院的一個通過但是我們這個提名的這個檢查總長的人選就是一個非常適合的在他的學經歷他這個整個一個非常優秀其實他代理期間的時候也提出非常上述"},{"start":2926.932,"end":2931.974,"text":"那非常上述研究那些的 譬如說那個整個一個是不是有社會就是反社會性人格的一個受刑人我想這樣是非常適合的思改會 因為別人也有提出不同意見認為這個是變相架空國會的人事同意權把代理制作為政治對抗工具損害檢查公信"},{"start":2950.581,"end":2958.684,"text":"欠缺民主正當性 創下憲政惡例因為指派代理是一個屬於事務性 暫時性的一個組織你一定認為沒道理嘛那這個代理人選在整個代理期間也行使的一個檢查總統的職權也非常的一個可視社會那個整個媒體也做大幅的一個報導總統會再提名新的人選送來立院嗎還是就讓這個徐行強無限期的代理下去"},{"start":2979.423,"end":2983.184,"text":"本黨團已經提案修法了代理檢察總長不能超過三個月而且會被國會否決的人也不能夠來做代理人那看來您是支持這個修法嗎"},{"start":3002.851,"end":3020.462,"text":"你剛剛最後的報告是有點開放那我想你支持這個修法嗎我的問題我很清楚啦一切就按照法律的規定嘛那一個指定代理即是一個過渡的一個行政的一個行政處置所以立法院如果提出相關修法基本上你也會來做個了解那個修法這個是整個檢查總長的一個任命是規定在法院組織法第66條的規定"},{"start":3028.53,"end":3037.654,"text":"那這部分是我們也尊重的一個法案主管機關的一個意見那我想我們本部會有一些的一個建議你給我一點時間啦不然接下來我們來談一下詐騙而且這個總長我認為這個也不能夠像代理也不能夠一直的更替"},{"start":3045.737,"end":3054.622,"text":"一個更替我想這個會妨礙整個一個業務的一個正常的一個推動部長您平常的解釋都非常的論述非常多我們大概都知道我們來談一下詐騙打詐跟房企前我們絕對支持但是法務部前幾年新增的告誡處分本來是要攔截詐騙金流那如果配套沒做好根本就是會變成濫殺無辜這個有一個告誡戶的制度它本來是要處罰那些亂給別人帳戶的人一旦被警察告誡那銀行帳戶至少要凍結五年"},{"start":3075.393,"end":3084.038,"text":"但現在出現一大堆無辜的受害者特別是年輕人很多人只是在網路上賣東西當買家匯錢進來那事後才發現那筆錢是詐騙來的那這些買家根本沒有把帳密帳號密碼給這個詐騙集團那甚至有人莫名其妙被匯入一塊錢他直接變成那個詐欺的共犯變成告戒戶那部長我要講說這些商家其實他是單純的做生意他因為收到有問題的款項就被直接當作"},{"start":3104.249,"end":3132.302,"text":"這個網路人頭結果凍結帳戶五年了那你認為這樣符合比例原則嗎對很多無辜民眾來說網銀不能用帳戶被鎖死簡直是社會性死亡人你認為這樣符合比例原則嗎這個告借戶本來就是要解決人頭帳戶的一個問題那也不要這一開始就把那個人頭戶當作刑事犯罪來偵查所以說現在出現了一些告借戶是一種警方發給的一個行政處分"},{"start":3133.422,"end":3137.003,"text":"那是不是像委員講的這個情形那我們當然非常重視那這部分我們在今年的7月1日要開會來研商如何去解決適合我委員關係的這樣的一個問題那我們還是看一下這個統計數字這是警政署的資料"},{"start":3151.949,"end":3156.45,"text":"自從這個洗錢防治法實施以來到今年5月為止檢察機關開立的告誡處分有13萬件那民眾提訴願的有3981件那最後撤銷成功大概是1000出頭件撤銷率是撤銷不到1%這個所謂的翻案率是非常的低啦那部長其實最重要的問題是目前的訴願程序是援水救不了進貨你受到處分要30天內提訴願"},{"start":3176.795,"end":3183.322,"text":"那這個程序動輒要三到五個月如果再打行政訴訟那簡直是曠日廢時而且犯案率非常低那請部長想一想那當地三方受詐騙的受害者他可能要等半年多才會拿到這個不起訴處分的確定還有這個甚至是無罪的這個確定但他的告誡處分就是賬戶凍結"},{"start":3196.715,"end":3213.686,"text":"他不會自動撤銷喔那很多委員已經注意到這個法規的漏洞已經有都提案了所以我認為是要建立制度如果確定不起訴或是經法院判決無罪那受告誡處分者是不是可以拿相關的證明文件申請撤銷告誡部長你支持這樣的做法嗎"},{"start":3215.414,"end":3234.559,"text":"跟委員報告那個告誡會的確有實質上的一個需要那剛才委員提供的數據是13萬多萬件嘛那集體這個我們告誡的時候這些被人家當作洗錢當作詐團使用的這些的一個工具這個是對被害人詐欺被害人委員我現在已經在關心那犯罪被害人的對那種的一個詐欺犯罪被害人的一個保護啦那是"},{"start":3238.26,"end":3255.949,"text":"我跟委員報告那個是不是可以拿不起訴處分書來做一個解除告解的一句話我想這個應該是要尋因為它是一個行政處分行事處分這個行為是不是合法妥適這個可以依照書院或行政訴訟來解決那另外那個不起訴處分絕對不起訴處分它是沒有犯罪證據並沒有它的行為是妥適的嘛"},{"start":3261.212,"end":3267.616,"text":"這只是不能打倒一個犯罪的一個門檻而已嘛我想這個是大家都很知道的一般的法律的一個知識啦法治國家的原則是正當法律程序跟比例原則啦防治洗錢跟打造我們是百分百支持的但是也不能為了抓壞人錯殺一百人啊這個有允許救濟的機會啊有宿願啊 宿願行政訴訟的機會啊"},{"start":3288.549,"end":3294.774,"text":"你剛剛說7月你會開始研議一些這是一個法治國基本的原理就是你研議的結果讓我去了解這個7月1日的話會在座開會研商就來更精進就讓委員講就是說不要傷及無辜第二不要傷及無辜因為這些受傷的都是年輕人他們在網路上賣東西那他也沒辦法賬密給別人"},{"start":3309.226,"end":3322.242,"text":"但是他會進來前是可能出現的問題所以現在他就很主動的被變成說是一個告戒戶但是他如果被判決無罪他又不能拿這個職業率撤銷這告戒不會判決無罪喔委員這個是兩個話沒有告戒就不會到刑案去去了"},{"start":3325.666,"end":3330.429,"text":"我是指最後經過好幾個月以後的 不起訴我不是全部開放喔我不是開放我就假設後來證實他不起訴等等等等這個時候我們是不是要主動不要讓他再去申請然後要經過也許半年的時間好嗎 部長就是說您了解我的重點"},{"start":3347.12,"end":3362.371,"text":"大家都要打仗嘛7月1日的那個研商會議我想會主事解這個問題就麻煩部長這個不要去傷及無辜當然會不會有那個我們會再做一個因為很多人都發現這裡出現了一些漏洞那我們就是再來重新檢討好嗎好謝謝部長謝謝主席"},{"start":3365.41,"end":3383.889,"text":"謝謝陳委員因為我們議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢上面未確定所以我們現在先確定議事錄請問在座兩位委員上次會議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話我們就議事錄確定接下來我們就有請林沛翔委員發言"},{"start":3395.95,"end":3404.036,"text":"好 謝謝主席在今天我們正式開始討論這個獨立機關首長代理制度之前本席又想請法務部部長好 請那個 請鄭部長"},{"start":3416.807,"end":3446.11,"text":"委員好部長早據說行政院會今天將通過刑法刑法施刑法跟煙害防治法修法未來只要持有電子煙就會直接沒入並可處三萬元至十萬元的罰還同時也調整假釋的規範未來獨駕酒駕等不能安全駕駛的罪犯累犯五年五年內再犯者不得假釋對於行政院這樣的利益風行的速度本席表示肯定但是"},{"start":3446.69,"end":3467.241,"text":"扣掉駕照不得假釋也是他犯了罪之後獨駕加重也是平均刑度才拉成兩年這樣會實際上有用嗎第二次撞死人才最重判無期徒刑沒有死刑這樣合理嗎能夠說服了普羅大眾嗎那被害人還有第二次生命嗎我想這邊請部長正式回答整個一個"},{"start":3472.168,"end":3485.269,"text":"一個獨駕的這部分的確是我們在行會有修法了有提出那個修正草案那委員剛剛關心的就是那個獨駕如果說有累犯的這部分10年內再犯這部分"},{"start":3487.751,"end":3510.265,"text":"這部分是最終我們是要修到無期徒刑那委員會的確是人命人死了就不能復生但是如果說我們獨駕獨駕我們會分別如果說獨駕他惡劣他是有不確定殺人故意的話第二次撞死人才最高是無期徒刑第二次撞死人才最高是無期徒刑請問這樣子符合所謂所謂公平正義嗎如果說故意有不確定殺人故意就像我們這實務上已經有判死刑的案例了"},{"start":3514.307,"end":3533.067,"text":"就是有一個因為陳姓的一個駕駛獨駕而造成劉姓所長的一個這次一審是判無罪檢查是因為用這樣的來做一個起訴的所以這部分我們關心這獨駕的確我們零容忍更何況是有撞死人我們是覺得這是要以緩原判所以這部分我們做一個修法那我想這部分"},{"start":3534.267,"end":3549.754,"text":"在各具體的個案如果說獨家是不確定的殺人故意把人撞死了這是直接進入到殺人罪了這個會判處死刑跟無期徒刑跟十年以上有期徒刑所以這部分實務上已經有案例判死刑了所以這部分我跟委員做一個報告好 謝謝部長請回"},{"start":3555.098,"end":3581.611,"text":"主席跟在場的各位先進跟所有的官員今天本席要討論的不是單純的人事安排問題更精確的說本席要談的是我國憲政機關與獨立機關首長代理制度所衍生出來的憲政風險因此這個議題已經不僅是指說這是誰來代理代理多久而是在檢視我們的憲政體制是否還是依照憲法的原初設計在做運作呢"},{"start":3584.973,"end":3609.272,"text":"從制度的設計本意來看代理制度系避免首長出缺導致機關運作停滯本身沒有不當但是當代理由過渡其措施變成長期安排甚至實質取代正式任命的機制時我們就看到問題出來了換言之如果首長長期懸缺重要職務實為補時受影響的不僅是個別機關"},{"start":3613.035,"end":3636.283,"text":"更是整體憲政秩序的穩定各位在座的先進在我國憲法設計中總統提名立法院同意並非單純的刑事程序而是五權分立下的重要制衡機制而在這個架構當中總統負責提名立法院代表人民進行審查以避免權力集中來自單一來源"},{"start":3636.963,"end":3663.946,"text":"因此當立法院否認不適任人選時這才是憲政正常運作的具體展現依照這個邏輯提名全人應該要重新提出更適任的人選再送交立法院來審查但是今年我們來觀察到的實況卻是人事案遭否決後政府未積極重新提名而是透過代理方式持續運作這才是我們今天看到問題的核心所在"},{"start":3665.047,"end":3685.972,"text":"進一步從制度面來做檢視的時候現行制度雖然賦予總統提名權但卻沒有設定提名期限導致提名的責任缺乏實質約束換言之只要不提名職位可以長期空缺制度也沒有設立機制要求限期補時這樣的設計其實應該是要被檢討被改善的"},{"start":3689.733,"end":3711.685,"text":"基於上述的問題接下來我要請各位首長來分別來作答請教司法院秘書長若司法院院長長期空缺大法官名額不足是否會影響憲法法庭運作司法政策跟推動人民的權利救濟"},{"start":3715.517,"end":3734.331,"text":"對於剛剛委員所講的確實在憲政體制下本來就是行政與立法要折衝協調總統應該要提名立法院要行使同意權沒有錯現在是陷入了這個僵局可是如同我剛剛跟委員報告的"},{"start":3735.351,"end":3761.88,"text":"這個僵局是不是由代理院長這個問題來解決呢是有疑問的當然沒有錯這個大法官人數不足對於這個憲法法院所形成的這個判決可能會受到各界的公平所以在這個情況之下司法院是否支持建立合理的提名期限以避免重要司法職位長期懸缺"},{"start":3763.001,"end":3778.122,"text":"跟委員報告因為委員提到了一個很重要的憲政議題我想我等於司法院秘書長我很難回答這個問題因為這一定要充分的討論這不是說司法院你同意或不同意可以來回答的"},{"start":3779.107,"end":3805.614,"text":"那如果此外如果僅由部分大法官做出重大憲法判決是否可能影響司法正當性跟公信力呢如果就大法官我們已經有1號解釋解釋說我們現在雖然缺大法官可是在整個憲政在憲法體制下他是公平他是具有民主正當性的當然他一定會受到公平我只能這樣回答"},{"start":3807.031,"end":3808.517,"text":"好 謝謝那再來請教考試院"},{"start":3814.62,"end":3841.518,"text":"委員好請問考試院如果重要職務長期由代理人員擔任是否會影響文官制度的穩定性委員您是說考試院的重要職務還是一般的重要職務包括現在檢察總長包括所有的當然是盡可能不要太過長期的代理會比較好那進一步而言基層公務人員是否可能因為政策方向不確定而產生疑慮呢"},{"start":3844.366,"end":3848.198,"text":"如果代理的首長代理首長當然就是"},{"start":3849.841,"end":3879.099,"text":"如果他代理長又頻繁的更換的話也有可能會造成一些不穩定所以說在制度設計上考試院是否支持建立代理制度期限以避免代理常態化但是就像我剛剛講的如果說代理首長也是頻繁的更換對於那個機關來講可能運作穩定度也是一個需要考慮的因素如果譬如說幾個月就要換一個新的代理人的話那每一位的風格方向未必相同"},{"start":3879.72,"end":3881.274,"text":"好 謝謝 那再來請教監察院"},{"start":3891.371,"end":3914.406,"text":"就叫祕書長 若監察院重要職務長期由代理人員擔任是否會影響其獨立性跟權威性獨立性是絕對不會影響因為監察委員本身就必須要一定要本於職權依據法律獨立行使職權這是在整個監察院框進我們的DNA裡面的一個最重要的使命"},{"start":3915.307,"end":3945.167,"text":"所以你覺得權威性有問題獨立性沒問題是你回答的那所以說因此監察院覺得說不需要提名制度報告提名進度報告機制讓人民可以了解政府是否積極補時期職位我們剛才在報告的時候已經有特別提到我們監察院的組織法就有很明確的代理制度了整個的比如說今天要討論的院長副院長出缺的時候我們是由監察委員來代理"},{"start":3946.488,"end":3954.395,"text":"所以你覺得代理都沒問題就是了我們目前這個制度的運作在長年的運作並沒有發現任何的憾惡之處最後還是再就教一次法務部部長"},{"start":3969.826,"end":3991.28,"text":"好 鄭部長 代理檢察總長跟正式檢察所長的職權是否完全一致是一致 那我想這個代理的一個期間徐義代理檢察總長這段時間也行使的非常 提起非常上述那跟委員報告 如果說沒有代理的話所以說完全一致 這是不是實質上削弱的立法院的人事同意權這個絕對沒有架空 這個沒有架空的這個問題"},{"start":3995.723,"end":4008.478,"text":"那這個的確是因為我們提跟立完提中我們是一定是提那個提最適合的一個人選那當然是大院沒有沒有最適合的人選代理的總長剛好代理總長的人選他是因為最高檢察署的一個主任檢察官"},{"start":4010.84,"end":4025.557,"text":"那這是屬於最高前目前總長一個卸職之後他是一個最高職務的一個所以目前法務部不支持透過修法來建立代理期限這部分我們都尊重啦我們是尊重那個法律的修法那我想這部分所以我要一個明確的"},{"start":4025.998,"end":4033.085,"text":"YES OR NO 回答所以在這邊來講 法務部是否支持透過修法法務部是否支持透過修法法務部是否支持透過修法建立代理期限與補提名機制請給我一個YES OR NO回答"},{"start":4045.8,"end":4072.737,"text":"跟委員報告 剛才我想監察院也提到了那個民定代理期限事實上會出現人事案的一個一個頻繁的一個更迭那說實在非常適合到檢查中甚至檢查中有出缺的時候那個代理人選都非常多他一定是要在一個一個檢查體系一個體系非常具有德高望重然後呢這個整個一個學經歷他最威望以及他法律的一個素養"},{"start":4073.817,"end":4098.097,"text":"謝謝部長 既然你不願意正面回答那我們就可以直接 謝謝部長既然我們法務部部長還有我們現在目前的首長都不願意正面回答這個問題各位在場的先進跟全國好朋友在注意到這個議題的所有知識份子綜合以上討論問題不在代理制度本身而是在其過度被延伸而且缺乏明確的限制"},{"start":4100.117,"end":4118.784,"text":"當代理無期限延長甚至取代正式任命的時候立法院的人事同意權將被實質架空從近年發展觀察行情政權有逐步擴張的趨勢重要職位長期由代理人員擔任憲政制衡機制面臨弱化風險"},{"start":4120.256,"end":4147.433,"text":"在這裡本席認為應該聚焦在三個改革方案第一建立合理之提名期限第二設立代理制度之明確上限第三要求政府定期向立法院報告補提名的進度總而言之代理制度可以存在但是不應該也不能無限延續同樣的提名權可以行使但必須伴隨相應的責任最後本席要在這邊強調"},{"start":4148.934,"end":4170.593,"text":"今天我們的討論並非為特定政黨或個人而是為了維護憲政制度的正常運作唯有總統跟立法院各司其職行政權跟立法權監督權互相制衡國家方能穩定運行反之若形成不同意及長期代理的慣例受損的將是整體憲政根基"},{"start":4172.495,"end":4190.809,"text":"人民所期待的是一個依法運作權力受制衡的民主法治國家因此我在這邊呼籲賴總統儘速提出適任人選送交立法院審查使民意得以實質監督而並非以代理取代憲法制度以上 謝謝好 謝謝林委員"},{"start":4209.636,"end":4212.059,"text":"好 再來請翁曉雲委員發言謝謝主席我首先先請司法院高明署長還有法務部的政部長"},{"start":4232.825,"end":4256.555,"text":"那麼這兩天有一則與司法有關的新聞那麼讓本席感到非常的震驚就是一位前基隆地檢署的零性檢察官他涉嫌放高利貸那根據檢方起訴的內容這個零性檢察官因為他是以人頭名義去放貸放貸金額高達一億以上而且他的獲利"},{"start":4257.395,"end":4259.197,"text":"超過了4300萬那麼因為他是放高利貸他的年利率現在高達六成到八成四然後所以為了掩飾犯行還涉嫌未據時申報財產辦假離婚避免財產揭露等等那麼所以這個案子基本上經過"},{"start":4276.317,"end":4302.684,"text":"這個檢察官申請羈押進鑒獲准之後呢全案在這個前兩天然後癥結後已經提起公訴但是這樣的一個檢察官因為他長期涉及到經營重力放貸獲利數千萬而且他本身是一個具備高度法律素養之人就起訴後法院竟然以裁定兩萬元就交保我想這樣子的一個情況這個法院他針對"},{"start":4305.16,"end":4324.467,"text":"像這個涉嫌這麼嚴重的檢察官到底要不要繼續羈押然後竟然就是以裁定兩萬元就交保那請問法務部長還有司法院秘書長像這樣子的一個狀況到底你這兩萬元交保的衡量標準是什麼想要先請秘書長首先跟委員"},{"start":4330.622,"end":4351.953,"text":"我想這個法官他會裁定他有他的具體理由那我也不因為這個是屬於審判核心我不能夠予以評價但是我必須要說一個犯罪本質他機制很重跟有沒有羈押必要是兩件事將來他雖然被交保可是他將來的有罪判決是什麼呢"},{"start":4352.953,"end":4379.324,"text":"我們在這個疑審後要不要受羈押我們要考量的是羈押必要性是了解謝謝秘書長但是我們現在想說這個交保的金額你看看一個涉嫌收取4300多萬元暴力的人交保金額竟然他的交保金額竟然比一般的竊盜酒駕案件的交保金還要低我們再來看看之前這柯文哲案他的交保金額高達7000萬"},{"start":4381.065,"end":4390.137,"text":"然後去年大罷免的時候有一些案子是涉及到偽造罷免連署的整個交保金也是高達千萬"},{"start":4391.795,"end":4417.217,"text":"所以其實就從這個案子裡面基本上就讓我們去讓一般的老百姓很難理解到底法官的裁量權是如何去裁量的是不是已經出現了明顯失衡我們在前幾個禮拜還出現這個彰化的地院的法官針對獨駕的交保也是一樣他還是根本就不需應該是說是無保請回"},{"start":4418.919,"end":4427.572,"text":"就是針對先前彰化地方法院對獨駕犯無保請回這也是引起社會哗然所以諸如此類的這樣的事情"},{"start":4429.283,"end":4457.903,"text":"司法院應該要跟法官們開一個討論會什麼對於這個所謂的這個交保的裁量拒保的裁量或是羈押這應該要進行一個通盤考考進行通盤的討論否則是與民間的法律情感太遠了跟委員報告其實剛剛委員所提到的通盤討論是我們隨時都在進行因為這是隨時都在學習的可是同樣的我要跟委員報告因為"},{"start":4460.345,"end":4482.006,"text":"會交保是他這個整個案件的考量當然沒有錯我們看到起訴是寫高達84可是法官他看的是整個捐贈資料是的好了解其實秘書長我想這個事情我只是要再強調的就是整個現在司法為什麼讓大家覺得不具公信力"},{"start":4483.004,"end":4504.832,"text":"的原因也是因為在很多的個案裡面他凸顯出就法官的裁量權他所做的決定跟我們一般人民的法律情感太遙遠了對不對這個一個等於說放高利貸獲利四千多萬他兩萬元他就交保了那之前的獨家的問題也是還無保請回"},{"start":4505.752,"end":4530.361,"text":"對我想這個對於法務部來說應該也是一個挫折吧檢察官很努力的去偵查辦案但是呢沒想到像這樣子的一個對當然我要講的是因為這個是跟這個前檢察官有關基隆地院的檢察官他今天做出了這樣的事情所以接下來我想請問部長就是說現在這位檢察官他的狀況是怎麼樣是停職還是辭職了"},{"start":4532.728,"end":4548.177,"text":"你們有沒有對於這位放高利貸的檢察官有進行任何的懲戒跟委員報告那這件事我們就已經起訴了去求重刑那另外的確是他那個法官交保是出我想社會的意料之外"},{"start":4548.897,"end":4552.363,"text":"那我想這部分他的犯刑非常的嚴重我們對這個檢查違法亂記用重力還有一些的偽造文書所以現在除了刑事上面來說至於他的進行證責任責任有在進行嗎"},{"start":4565.342,"end":4571.345,"text":"現在這個行政另外行事我們是起訴了那這件那個法官那個繳保兩萬塊才用繳保兩萬我們提起抗告因為的確是那個兩萬塊那個行政調查部門行政就審部門現在在進行中現在正在進行中好我希望就是法務部不要寬帶"},{"start":4582.79,"end":4610.258,"text":"這個絕對不會 我們都起訴了就求重刑 還進行羈押我們這也提抗告了我們希望這個能夠法院能夠撤銷 能夠再採取因為這次有郭川證 其實在審理中還有郭川證逃亡之虞所以事實上如果要交保我是認為啦 個人看法啦我認為要有一定的相當的一個擔保他們不會逃亡 不會郭川的一個金額是的 好 謝謝部長那麼兩位先請回那接下來我要請考試院的劉秘書長"},{"start":4617.114,"end":4642.612,"text":"好 林秘書長好因為回到我們今天的主要的專報的主題是涉及是討論到有關於植物代理制度的問題那麼事實上現在在考試院或詮釋部的主管法規當中有一個各機關植物代理應行注意事項是那請問這個各機關植物代理應行注意事項它規範的範圍是什麼有沒有包含就是中央政府機關還是說它只是就針對長安文官的部分"},{"start":4643.123,"end":4669.309,"text":"只是針對常任文官的部分所以各機關職務代理應行注意事項是不包括政務首長只是涉及到常任文官的首長不一定首長當然不一定首長但是因為在你們第三條裡面有講機關首長副首長職務出缺的時候可以有法定代理人或符合資格人員代理所以換句話說你們這裡講的機關首長副首長是指的是常任文官的"},{"start":4670.609,"end":4694.78,"text":"機關首長副首長不包括政務當然從這一點來說我們就可以知道就是其實考試院基本上對於所謂的政務首長政務人員的這部分是完全沒有去思考到就是說他的這個職務當他長期代理而且沒有任何次數限制的時候是不是會影響到整個公務機關的正常運作"},{"start":4697.185,"end":4719.217,"text":"那我認為說考試院基本上應該要去檢討這個職務代理一行注意事項當然他現在只是一個行政命令那麼未來有沒有機會可以提升到法律位階好做一個通盤的這個檢討那並且將職務代理法治化我認為正式考試院全市部應該要去思考而且要去正視的問題"},{"start":4722.366,"end":4743.117,"text":"其實在委員提出今天報告的這個主題的時候我們也有把這個制度來做一個並同的思考就是說那如果對照到我們一般公務體系部分就是一加一代理一年為限必要時延長一年那但是因為考慮到就是說一般公務文官體系的職務他的代理應該是說他比較容易"},{"start":4744.938,"end":4758.005,"text":"它的代理比較不會有爭議啦那它的可替代性也比較高但如果是把它運用到政務體系的話那如果又加以一些限制那最後如果它出現了沒有人可以代理的時候那這個對機關的運作影響也會變另外一個問題這個職務代理基本上可能也會出現一些問題對不對特別是"},{"start":4763.988,"end":4774.696,"text":"我們為什麼要有一個職務代理的這個陰性注意事項或是你們要做一些規定也是因為考慮到就是每個職務它都有它的一些特殊性它的重要性然後所以呢當這個職務執行的執行者如果萬一不能夠來執行的時候必須要有個代理人"},{"start":4781.681,"end":4800.74,"text":"但是代理通常來講他就是短暫的嘛 暫時的可是如果你當把代理常態化之後就會出現很大的問題因此在你們自己的陰性注意事項裡面也講了最多就是一年這還是針對事務官的部分但是我們知道所有政務首長他位高權重他握有非常重要的這個任務還有這個職權"},{"start":4802.83,"end":4828.401,"text":"那麼反而是權力越大的人越是重要的人他就可以無限期的代理下去這對於整個的政務的推動執行來說我認為會出了很大的問題當然譬如說以剛剛講的司法院院長為例現在已經代理了一年一年多了即將要可能要快兩年了一個司法院院長同時兼任憲法法庭的審判長可以"},{"start":4832.052,"end":4849.512,"text":"這個重要的正式的院長跟審判長職務然後一直都是用代理來這個進行這個基本上是很不妥的一件事情所以這也是本席為什麼要提出相關的這個組織法的修正好那接下來我想請法務部這個政部長請秘書長請回"},{"start":4857.367,"end":4861.53,"text":"我們剛有談到有關於檢查總長代理的問題因為事實上法務部現在說檢查總長的代理他是主要的依據的是最高檢察署的處務規程的第11條"},{"start":4875.253,"end":4881.038,"text":"最高檢察署處規程第十一條嘛所以總統可以執行指定代理人行使檢查總長之權那我想要談的就是說因為剛剛部長也講說其實代理職務也很重要這個檢查總長不能夠空缺那本身也同意但是呢如果說你認為說這個規定是這麼重要這個代理職務是這麼重要為什麼不把它提升到法律位階"},{"start":4902.462,"end":4916.641,"text":"在我們學法律的時候知道所謂法律保留原則所謂法律保留原則就是只要是涉及到國家重要組織人事權限分配以及人民權利義務有重大影響事項的都應該要有法律明文來規範"},{"start":4918.622,"end":4940.964,"text":"所以對於像檢察總長這麼重要的職務 結果反而都是透過一般的行政規則去訂定或行政命令去訂定 然後它不是一個法律來命定所以這也是會讓人詬病 為什麼我們的代理總長的職務你要不然就把它名為定在法院組織法"},{"start":4942.482,"end":4958.576,"text":"這部分如果說有因為這反而是司法院的主管的一個法規那當然是關係到我們那個總長是不是那個一個剛好委員關心的就是代理的問題那當然我們認為是目前的一個代理這部分我們認為是有一個"},{"start":4959.537,"end":4975.675,"text":"一個過度的一個行政處置我想就是說因為過去大家認為說代理他只是個過度那麼不會說是長期的代理可是當我們發現整個政府機關他自己的自律他的倫理失靈了出現了很大的問題"},{"start":4976.696,"end":4994.244,"text":"那麼我們就必須要把過去沒有關注到的一些議題讓它法制化、明文化那這樣的話未來不管是在代理的任命或者指定或者期限以及代理到底次數是不是可以一直不斷的同一個人一直連續下去這個有一個法律的明文規定大家才有所本嘛"},{"start":4995.416,"end":5012.147,"text":"是 我當然知道現在部長你很困難 因為代理總長也不是您指定的這個代理總長是法務部是曾請行政院那個報請行政院曾請總統來指派的那的確是徐代理總長所以這個現在代理檢查總長的名單是您曾請總統來"},{"start":5018.351,"end":5020.875,"text":"是 可是我們之前已經講過這個議題整個檢查體系人才濟濟為什麼要去提起一位被立法院否決的"},{"start":5033.992,"end":5038.618,"text":"帶理檢查總檔的人選去進行代理我覺得這個部分當然是全國民眾看在眼裡都覺得沒有辦法接受的這個議題我想我們就不用再討論了因為事實上現在就是由學習長來代理所以因為從他的例子才讓我們知道說"},{"start":5053.676,"end":5058.919,"text":"我想各大報都有報導一個非常上述的一個大家也都非常的肯定否則他就根本不應該代理我覺得這是兩回事我們今天討論的是制度面的問題對 再跟他這個代理總長他擔任了這個職務之後他能不能把事情做好我覺得這是兩回事所以我們今天要談的是說制度面上面我們代理是不是應該有期間長短的限制代理是不是應該有次數的限制"},{"start":5082.213,"end":5104.189,"text":"那對於代理的這個具有代理資格的人是不是不應該是被立法院否決掉的資格的人所以從徐錫祥的案子當然就凸顯出這個議題的重要性而這也是我們今天為什麼要把有關於代理職務的這個問題我們要把它法治化所以這個地方的話我想就是這個請部長"},{"start":5107.214,"end":5129.942,"text":"這個當然也不需要再為學習廂做什麼辯護了那接下來我們當然有很多的法案然後我們需要一個一個來進行討論那我當然也希望防護部長能夠支持還有最後一個小小的問題就是針對三大獨立機關現在NCC那我們可以麻煩請NCC的主名"},{"start":5137.879,"end":5141.203,"text":"目前的三位委員即將在7月31號這期屆滿據您了解的話行政院到底有沒有進行提名作業"},{"start":5156.009,"end":5183.482,"text":"目前據報載是說山東大秘書長有在表示行政院有在徵詢中有在徵詢中那麼現在NCC有沒有準備萬一到了7月31號之後NCC沒有辦個委員那麼NCC接下來要如何適從報告委員當然我們尊重行政院既有的行政的機制"},{"start":5185.666,"end":5198.117,"text":"所以也就是說如果說萬一沒有任何的委員被提名或者是說即便是被提名了可能不適合被立法院否決的話那會讓NCC無法運作對不對"},{"start":5199.763,"end":5223.505,"text":"因為根據我們納尾關4-613號的解釋我們行政院還是最高的行政機關那是不是要派代理人來執行職務是嗎 在現在NCC組織法裡面可以直接由行政院院長去指定一個非NCC委員的來代理"},{"start":5224.045,"end":5248.565,"text":"因為剛剛委員是說如果7月31號之後一直都沒有委員的話那怎麼去運作所以NCC不就停擺了嘛原則上NCC就停擺了嘛可是如果剛剛重溫竹密的口中好像似乎行政院現在有意義是不是要指定一個非NCC委員的人就是來擔任NCC主委嗎"},{"start":5249.326,"end":5277.532,"text":"沒有這樣的情形那當然我們也樂見說會指派 問主秘你來代理主委嗎我不曉得啦因為這部分不是不曉得 你應該說不行依法是不可以的不是說不曉得我希望說萬一這個行政院腦子壞了這個又違法亂證然後指派想要指派主秘來代理主委這是完全違法的"},{"start":5279.048,"end":5297.788,"text":"對 我寧可讓NCC停擺 但是也不可以就是說違反我們的法定組織法定程序這法定的組織程序 然後去指派一個根本不是具有這個委員資格的事務官 文官來擔任委員或是主委"},{"start":5299.534,"end":5311.187,"text":"好是的謝謝好本期今天的這個集訓到這邊然後也希望就是溫主秘回去還是要這個透過這個陳代理主委去提醒行政院儘速要提名ACC委員好嗎好謝謝"},{"start":5328.476,"end":5344.478,"text":"好 接下來我們有請林慶祺委員發言好 謝謝我們的主席翁昭瑋 輔會同仁大家好本席先請這個我們NCC今天的代表應該是我們的溫祖密請溫祖密"},{"start":5353.846,"end":5374.857,"text":"本席今天要針對NCC的委員任期即將屆滿但是目前行政院還沒有新的名單出來那麼時間已經很近所以也有可能產生一個停擺的問題所以本席要今天針對這個部分來就教目前現在NCC的三位委員在7月31號屆滿"},{"start":5376.798,"end":5395.431,"text":"那如果新的委員沒有辦法在那之前即時產生那NCC可能會沒有委員來開會那這個部分剛才我們召委也跟您請教過啦那麼NCC的組織法第五條組委出缺或者是因故沒有辦法行使職權的時候呢要由副組委來代理"},{"start":5395.911,"end":5421.774,"text":"那麼主委跟副主委呢如果都出缺而且沒有辦法行使職權的話那麼行政院長就要只派委員一人來代理主任委員但是現在的這個問題也就是那8月1號以後如果委員都沒有那NCC要怎麼辦那麼組密可不可以代理主委那這個問題我想剛才那個我們昭偉也有跟你就法律見解上這邊做了一些討論"},{"start":5422.995,"end":5448.303,"text":"那假設萬一最後是這樣一個情形那你有沒有任何的法律依據來做對應那如果不可以那麼目前NCC跟行政院的溝通的這個法律見解又是什麼本席在這邊提醒NCC是個獨立機關那當然你們必須要由行政院來提名但是要經過立法院這邊來同意後認命那主要是透過人事同意權來確保"},{"start":5450.204,"end":5472.814,"text":"這個NCC的運作獨立專業跟民主的一個推動但是本席想要知道目前NCC是不是認同那任何代理的安排都不能實質來取代立法院的這個同意權那麼如果行政院指定非委員或者是由主蜜來實質主持NCC的業務那您認為合法性的這個疑慮呢"},{"start":5474.514,"end":5490.721,"text":"再者是NCC如何跟立法院來做協調依據通訊傳播委員會的組織法第四條的規定行政院長應該要在三個月內補足提名來送交立法院來審查但是截至目前為止我們都還沒有看到名單"},{"start":5491.681,"end":5516.488,"text":"那是不是行政院已經公然違法了那責任也在行政院那如果沒有新名單那行政院應該就這個法律的這個部分積極跟立法院協調那目前看起來都還沒有這樣的一個跡象那常常我們聽到的外圍都是說機關快要停擺了預算沒有過啊這樣等等那這樣混淆視聽的東西其實也讓我們立法院非常的困擾那最後本席在嚴正的一個強調"},{"start":5517.768,"end":5537.669,"text":"那不是只有NCC發生這樣的問題喔那相關的一些部會也都有這樣一個問題其實我覺得有一些很基本面的核心問題沒有被真正處理但是呢你們也不能再走同樣的路所以行政機關如果不先提名那再用懸缺的壓力要來這個讓立法院同意我想這也不是一個正道啦"},{"start":5538.309,"end":5566.853,"text":"那常常都要繞過實質的一個監督也不是長久之路所以人事庭政權也不是橡皮圖章那本席想要了解那您對本席以上的一個見解跟本席所提出來的問題那剛才翁昭偉對您提出來的問題或許您在經過一點點時間做了一些思考那是不是有一些比較理性的一個回應或者就法治層面有沒有一些多的補充來跟本席這邊做一個回答"},{"start":5568.535,"end":5582.968,"text":"報告委員 剛才您提到的我們同常會的組織法第五條的代理的制度那確實是主任委員跟副主任委員出缺的時候是由指定其中一個委員來代理是沒錯啦"},{"start":5584.149,"end":5611.817,"text":"現在大家都說要困境了沒有委員會這樣對於說主任委員跟委員都出缺的時候的代理制度確實是在目前的我們組織法裡頭第五條並沒有去明訂所以當然我們現在我們也不希望樂見說NCC停擺所以當然我們也希望說可以這個是屬於行政院的院長的職權"},{"start":5613.537,"end":5626.921,"text":"我們也樂見說是不是有這樣的一個名單除了樂見你們目前跟行政院溝通的法治層面是不是有一些階段性的結果要不然日期已經將近了我想召委今天會把這個議題提出來談"},{"start":5629.582,"end":5650.892,"text":"也是針對國家憲政的一個關心那假設他已經超出了我們在相關的這個規定跟法治層面可以處理的那您這個部分我想應該就先用趕快溝通然後就一些事先的考量以避免一些空窗期所以目前有沒有這個階段性的一個溝通或法律的一個見解已經提出了呢"},{"start":5651.474,"end":5671.003,"text":"有 我們代理主委大致上已經有三次跟院長這邊跟他報告過已經跟院長報告了三次那有沒有什麼階段性的結果去因應目前即將來的這個狀況呢好 這個部分我們尊重行政院長的職權 是"},{"start":5673.471,"end":5691.622,"text":"看起來好像還沒有任何答案跟因應的作為所以我想召委提出這樣一個主題也是做一個提醒不會說面臨到這樣一個困境常常在代理的合法性跟外界的質疑上"},{"start":5692.482,"end":5720.088,"text":"經常要再做一些解釋那當然其實這個代理的適任與否那是另外一個議題但是制度面的問題我想現在我們都碰到了一個困境那如何處理跟解決看來你們也必須積極地再跟行政院溝通但是立法院這邊也希望聽到一個階段性的一個答案啦要不然真正碰到空窗期又大家對憲政的解釋的一個差異會搞得實質都不太好運作"},{"start":5721.688,"end":5749.557,"text":"我知道你們也為難當然我們也只能再建議你們趕快跟行政院甚至希望能夠溝通有一個結果這樣才不會空窗期造成全國民眾的一個困擾因為我想NCC必須要處理的這個事務也是很多這樣一個空窗期的時候如果遇到什麼樣的問題那未來在法治層面的一個解釋上或者是因應上也可能會有後續的一些困難"},{"start":5751.351,"end":5773.973,"text":"好 那謝謝這個我們溫祖密啦那接下來 其實這整體都是啦那接下來當然也是司法院的問題但時間的關係本席就先直接先跳到法務部好不好好 謝謝那其實本席關心的都是一致的啦都因為這個代理的問題就有一些實質的狀況沒有辦法真正的處理"},{"start":5776.355,"end":5784.337,"text":"所以我想在立法院的會議其實也提醒過好多次針對我們這些相關的獨立機關代理的問題也是整體目前行政機關的一個困境"},{"start":5796.14,"end":5802.143,"text":"但是這個困境可能會影響到一些業務所以本席除了在過去針對這個檢察總長代理的問題也談到說立法權不應被架空那被否決的人也不應該長期代理"},{"start":5811.127,"end":5828.566,"text":"不管他做的事任與否,我們不是對人的否定,也不是對執行業務上的一個否定,而是憲政體系的一個遵守所以這個議題我想大家都知道,那今天包括NCC,那包括司法院,那包括法務部,其實我們都有這個獨立機關人選的這個意義"},{"start":5832.29,"end":5845.125,"text":"那本席這邊就要談到說因為這個人選的疑義那有一些東西其實我們也應該來關心也就是說在極端的高問下那麼本席關心監所人員收容環境跟收容人的一個人權的問題那"},{"start":5847.267,"end":5874.272,"text":"在前段時間那個台北看守所在短短的三個小時之內就有兩起收容人無預警的昏倒的事件那兩名收容人分別是36歲及70歲那我們可以看到現在可能受到外界環境因素而影響的人已經不見得只是比較高齡的人那我們看到這個年齡的差距那只有36歲的男子就宣告不治而死亡"},{"start":5874.972,"end":5894.028,"text":"那麼七旬的這個老翁也在留院治療所以這個部分本行想要請教那我相信大家應該都有感最近整個氣候非常的極端那我們都會面臨到每一年都在遇到每一年跟往年可能超越往年的這個高溫"},{"start":5894.929,"end":5922.243,"text":"那所以當台北的體感溫度已經將近38度的時候那麼防射是不是有可能會造成熱衰竭熱中暑或既有的疾病可能被誘發那麼法務部目前調查結果就兩名收人人在倒地前那防射的溫度通風的狀況跟飲水的補充還有他們的相關健康的這個結果跟執行人員的查詢記錄你們這邊有沒有一些答案"},{"start":5923.824,"end":5942.492,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那個我們收容的一個環境的一個問題的確是現在的地球暖化夏季高溫那因為黃色是為了一些的一些的介乎的一些的當初的一個設計但是沒想到就是說整個地球暖化造成這個整個夏季高溫去操作以往那的確我們那個矯正署這部分有針對這個問題"},{"start":5944.253,"end":5972.612,"text":"他要求各角色機關要是實際的空中條件空間的條件建築環境收容管理需求有落實一些改善的防暑的一個措施事實上因為黃色也不能吹冷氣嘛所以至少說我們要封封啊或者是對像抽風扇吊扇閉扇抽風機或加強一些的包括屋頂上一些降溫的噴霧的一個系統這部分那這讓這個整個一個空間不要那麼悶熱"},{"start":5974.213,"end":5980.704,"text":"跟針對剛才那兩個個案你們沒有針對本席剛才所講的那幾個要素的一個調查結果那這部分我"},{"start":5986.021,"end":6010.265,"text":"那這個調查的一個結果的確是因為是個人的一個身體的一個狀況因為他本身是有一個身體的一個狀況還有一些慢性病的病史所致造成這些的一些的身體的一個不適那這個其實跟外界事實上是跟高溫中暑的或者是那個飲食的這部分是沒有關聯"},{"start":6010.765,"end":6023.83,"text":"所以你說那個結果有可能是他那個是醫生這是經過醫生的一個評估那如果他本身就已經有這種病史那是不是因為也高溫然後也發生這樣的個案那法務部是不是應該針對這個部分可能在尋訪的這個紀錄上或者是尋訪的這個頻率上也應該再多加一點關心這個一定是會那個就是有一定的時間的一個尋訪"},{"start":6038.196,"end":6051.556,"text":"針對這些可能產生問題的這個個案健康問題的這個個案那在目前高溫的情形下如果就您剛才所講的看起來目前是沒有關聯他那個跟那個中暑是無關的但是這也提醒我們正好在這種高溫"},{"start":6052.637,"end":6074.025,"text":"也要大部分 我想也到收容員這部分我們注意他們那個一個當然不能給他所享受吹冷氣啦對 也不是在要求這個優惠的房間啦是不是說我們這個預算這部分請委員多支持如果說我們要提供這個改善的措施的這部分增加的一個預算的這個預算的部分現在是整個行政院通通都在談這個預算"},{"start":6075.205,"end":6096.086,"text":"但是預算能不能有效的執行我想這是很重要的一個節奏這個變略區預算一定要做一個檢討我想我們檢討這事來討論一下如果談到預算你們針對房市的溫度通風遮陽風扇飲水的設備醫療高齡能力的這個收容人的這個病測有沒有建立風險管理的機制有沒有這樣現在有沒有"},{"start":6096.847,"end":6111.937,"text":"這一部分我們再來當你們在要求預算的同時是不是相關的細節跟資料也是要讓我們了解我們才能了解您的預算跟你要執行的內容細項跟對過去業務的內容是不是有實質的掌握這樣我們才會知道預算執行的效果那在這邊謝謝委員的一個關心我想既然我們針對這個問題我們就請教證署我會請教證署"},{"start":6122.703,"end":6125.025,"text":"針對本席這邊所談到的那幾些對那幾個要素對所以當我們在談要預算的時候其實也必須要給立法院一些信心嘛好"},{"start":6140.054,"end":6159.29,"text":"那另外本席剛才其實已經談到高溫如果你覺得那兩個個案跟高溫沒有關係但是高溫也是現在確實存在的它的高溫的話也存在的一個現象所以本席這邊要提醒遇到高溫警戒的時候那你們目前有沒有針對這樣高溫的一個標準作業的一個程序因為它已經在發生了"},{"start":6160.051,"end":6175.747,"text":"不管發生的個案跟高溫疫有沒有關係那本席已經先提醒了就是說當我們在談預算我們要看過去的一個整理跟現在你們對未來問題的一個因應那所以本席剛才也提到一些可以執行的一個方式"},{"start":6176.307,"end":6189.136,"text":"那在巡查的部分對病人的一個掌握然後對於整個系統的一個調整那這個應該都是你們可能必須要把這個細節提的很詳盡那我們在談預算的時候我們會確認這些我們所碰到的問題能夠在你們已經了解過往的業務跟現在對於未來因應的可能性是不是能夠實際符合你預算所提出來這樣一個這個也是我們要努力的目標"},{"start":6204.727,"end":6231.361,"text":"所以本席今天針對高溫做了一些提醒針對個案也需要希望了解這個個案的這個相關的內容然後最重要的是個案發生了縱使你們目前覺得跟外部環境還沒有關係可是外部環境的改變已經是不爭的事實所以本席提醒的是那這個外部環境的改變你們或許應該要整理一個因應現在跟未來外部環境改變的一些標準做法"},{"start":6231.881,"end":6243.526,"text":"才不會說未來又有個案發生 真的跟這個外界環境改變有關那我們再啟動檢討 可能也比較慢了所以本席今天有提醒現存的現象我們來精進好 謝謝好 謝謝林新琦委員那接下來我們有請張雅琳委員發言"},{"start":6264.698,"end":6267.149,"text":"謝謝主席 有請法務部部長好 有請部長"},{"start":6273.058,"end":6296.138,"text":"主委好謝謝我想今天排這個題目聽起來好像是很關心我們各部會這些憲政機關的一些代理制度啦可是事實上對我來說我認為這是一個假議題啦因為真正要問的是說國民黨跟民眾黨為什麼要十度的去獵殺我們人事案因為賴清德總統其實已經提了非常多次例如是說針對於這個"},{"start":6299.02,"end":6314.158,"text":"大法官其實都已經提了兩波那再來還有我們的這個NCC也是提了兩波然後再來我們的這個中選會也是然後還有我們的公視董事人士部分其實是"},{"start":6315.779,"end":6343.296,"text":"總統府行政院都一直有在課增他的一個職長但是呢立法院呢我們的國民黨跟民眾黨的委員呢卻一直不管理由就直接封殺我認為這其實是一個把政黨之間的一些競爭升級到我們國家秩序的一個很大的問題所以最重要的其實應該要問國民黨跟民眾黨你們為什麼要持續的否決這些人事案"},{"start":6344.301,"end":6372.328,"text":"我一直認為重要的國家制度一定要有代理制度沒有錯但是也不能夠因為國家制度這些立法委員像我們現在遇到這個問題導致我們人事案一直沒有完成就整個卡住特別是針對檢查總長這樣子的職務影響的是全國檢查體系的一個運作更重要的是它影響的是人民在確定判決之後它最終的司法救濟制度"},{"start":6373.389,"end":6376.464,"text":"所以我想今天就想要來跟這個部長來請教"},{"start":6378.57,"end":6403.003,"text":"如果今天正式的人事案被卡住代理期限又被堵住那人民的案件到底誰要來處理人民的權利誰來保障國家機關的一個停擺的責任又是誰來承擔特別是說像今天我投的影片上面看到這個王光祿的例子當時在檢查總長因為他提起了這個非常上述"},{"start":6404.364,"end":6429.789,"text":"所以呢最高法院就撤銷了最後的判決變成是無罪確定那同等的呢鄭幸哲的案子也是邱和順的案子也是都是因為檢察總長提起了這個非常上訴所以才讓大家整體的來重新檢視這些判決上面是不是有什麼問題所以這告訴我們什麼是檢察總長不是一個可以隨便空缺的職位"},{"start":6430.729,"end":6448.419,"text":"如果說今天呢總長空缺的話影響的不是只是誰簽公文這個我想所有關心這個議題的民眾我們的知識分子都應該要了解這不是只是一個簽公文的議題這是一個確定判決後的最後救濟制度所以我想要請教"},{"start":6450.381,"end":6464.612,"text":"部長的部分就是說如果今天法律未來現在要修法規定說代理檢查總長最長只能六個月的話那這個六個月之後正式的檢查總長仍然沒有完成任命"},{"start":6465.413,"end":6484.754,"text":"而且不能再由任何人來代理的話法務部認為會發生什麼問題非常上述的案件要誰來審查最高檢察署必要的一些業務會由誰來決定那涉及全國檢查體系的重要事項會不會馬上出現法律上無人負責的問題呢"},{"start":6486.581,"end":6508.027,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個問題的確那個檢查總長那個是非常上訴依據刑事訴訟441條是檢查總長才能夠具名提起非常上訴那非常上訴就是法律的一個究竟就像委員現在提那個王光祿的這個案件能夠非常上訴成功改判無罪還他清白那我想這個是有很大的一個意義"},{"start":6508.507,"end":6526.702,"text":"如果說一日最高檢沒有檢查總長的話又沒有辦法代理有效的代理我相信會影響人民的一些非常上述訴訟的一個權利那對老百姓是有很大的一個對司法是有很大的一個搶害那另外除了這個以外那個選罷法裡面也在115條公職人員選舉罷免法115條跟總統副總統選罷法100條"},{"start":6535.409,"end":6554.052,"text":"這裡面也規定了只有在對妨害選舉的案件只有總長才有辦法辦法去督率就是去到全國各級檢察隊針對這妨害選舉的案件來做一個偵辦來做一個偵辦那如果說這個如果說沒有代理的制度做總長沒有任命"},{"start":6554.853,"end":6567.526,"text":"沒有任命通過 又沒有代理制度的話代理事實上是在犯最嚴重影響這些民主就是選舉查查案件的一些的一個公平處理我想對民主政治也有很大的一個妨礙那我想這個都做簡單的這樣的一個報告"},{"start":6570.149,"end":6586.904,"text":"我想剛剛部長的回覆有兩個重點就是這是涉及一個人民能不能夠平反的機會要透過非常上訴那第二個就是說特別今年是九合一大選的大選年對於選舉上面可能出現的一些問題能不能捍衛民主制度的基礎"},{"start":6587.844,"end":6606.71,"text":"這個也是檢察總長非常重要的一個工作所以這件事情告訴我們是說政治鬥爭不能夠干預國家重要的機關獨立運作的這件事情所以我在想我要再次的強調國民黨不能只是講什麼代理不能太久要有代理制度應該要告訴我們的是為什麼人事案一直不能過"},{"start":6608.09,"end":6623.099,"text":"也不能夠一直一方面否決人事案又一直提出修法限制代理期限最後沒有告訴人民說期限到了人民的權利該如何伸張民主制度該如何維護所以我想這個是國民黨跟民眾黨應該要來回應的問題那接下來謝謝謝謝部長我們請監察院秘書長 謝謝"},{"start":6637.043,"end":6659.069,"text":"你好好秘書長你好我現在我想好監察院更大的問題可能已經不是代理院長這件事情而是之後的監察委員如果任期限嘛可是正式的人事案又沒有完成之後監察院會連代理人都沒有對嗎我的理解是這樣如果依照您的假設對如果依照我的假設是不是如此沒有對當然沒有代理人"},{"start":6659.569,"end":6682.563,"text":"因為我們現在監察院的組織法裡面是說如果院長出缺是由副院長來代理的如果是院長跟副院長同時出缺就會由總統就監察委員中指定一人代理這個代理的制度基礎在於是說這裡面還有監察委員所以我想歷史上有沒有曾經發過類似的事件然後可不可以說明"},{"start":6683.663,"end":6695.973,"text":"在2005年2月1號確實是沒有監察委員完全沒有任何一位監察委員就任的情況曾經發生過那當時監察院怎麼處理呢"},{"start":6698.334,"end":6713.491,"text":"當時這個部分我想也要這個當時的部分當然沒有辦法很多的職權完全要停辦有辦法調查任何案件嗎沒有辦法有辦法彈劾任何瀆職的官員嗎沒有辦法都沒有辦法對不對"},{"start":6715.093,"end":6731.407,"text":"簡單來說就是說監察院這幾年呢我認為有幾個案件呢受到社會的關注特別是最近昨天又再度宣判的這個台中雄性教練姓金63位兒童的案件當時也是在監察院彈劾的案件還有"},{"start":6732.488,"end":6754.689,"text":"彰化師範大學的資商系的三名教授全是性侵性騷學生職員的這個案件也都是監察院彈劾的案件特別是我之前也一直關心體育班的一個系統性的性侵事件頻繁希望監察院來調查這些案件未來如果監察委員都沒有完成任命的話就無法"},{"start":6755.57,"end":6775.99,"text":"進行對不對這幾個案件您提的這幾個案件都已經經彈劾了對我是說未來如果像這樣子的案件就沒有辦法進行了對不對類似案件我們沒辦法進行所謂最後的這個彈劾的這個決定因為彈的這個決定還是要有監委才能夠在做審查審查之後才能夠做出投票之後才能做出彈劾的決定"},{"start":6777.311,"end":6803.173,"text":"對 好 所以等於就是說人民最後可以去尋求這個監察院澄清的案件可能都沒有辦法做出最終的裁處啦 對不對對 所以說職權都停擺了好 所以我想其實歷史上剛剛也有發生過這樣子的狀況所以呢 釋字號的第632其實已經有提醒過了監察院是憲法設置的國家機關確保監察院的實質程序與正常運作"},{"start":6803.693,"end":6829.749,"text":"是所有憲法機關責無旁貸的責任總統應該要適時的來去提名立法院也應該要適時的行使同意權不能夠因為消極不作為或是政黨鬥爭來導致我們的監察院無法行使職權所以我在想就是說這個監察委員的正當性是透過總統提名立法院同意的這套憲政程序"},{"start":6830.749,"end":6845.641,"text":"因為這項程序才會有一個正當性那今天如果說我們今天只要要求監察院有一般的行政事務工作那這些目前是可如果未來監理監察委員沒有通過這些是可以進行的嗎"},{"start":6847.324,"end":6861.651,"text":"監察院的數目工作未來還是要繼續進行許多的內部的人事相關的行政等等的人事相關的也要再繼續進行中所以就變成是說如果現在"},{"start":6863.292,"end":6883.187,"text":"現在聽起來就是說啦我們好像監察院工作的這些同仁們一般的宿務工作都是可以執行的啦但是正常我們講的這些核心很專業的要彈劾的都是無法執行的所以我想今天我就做個結論好了啦就是說呢今天縱觀各個部會都有"},{"start":6883.647,"end":6901.778,"text":"都有提到就是如果代理沒有有一個期限限制可是又沒有解決接下來代理平凡的一個狀況的話或者是說立法院一直不通過人事同意案的話呢這會其實實質的是侵害我們人民的權益我覺得這才是最重要的關鍵如果今天一直"},{"start":6903.379,"end":6916.334,"text":"讓我們的憲政機關停擺其實是最終受害的是我們的人民這並不是在健全代理制度而是把國家機關推向風險所以呢我剛剛在講的就是說"},{"start":6917.535,"end":6934.367,"text":"我們今天不是要去討論代理的制度我們今天更重要的議題其實是應該要去回應為什麼我們今天藍白、國民黨、民眾黨要一直去封殺我們的人事案"},{"start":6935.228,"end":6954.881,"text":"不管是監察院也好我們的這個檢察總長也好NCC也好中選會也好為什麼這才是今天國民黨跟民眾黨在這個質詢上面應該要告訴我們國人的應該要讓我們人民知道他們的他們這樣子的行為侵害人民權益之後人民該怎麼辦謝謝"},{"start":6958.939,"end":6964.666,"text":"好 謝謝張雅琳委員接下來我們有請周睿雄召委進行詢問"},{"start":6975.426,"end":7000.848,"text":"謝謝召委來我現在有請以下幾位苦主司法院高秘書長考試院劉秘書長監察院黃秘書長法務部政部長公平交易委員會主任秘書國家通訊傳播委員會主任秘書中選會主任秘書這都苦主啦"},{"start":7002.54,"end":7027.073,"text":"我想今天要來就教幾位其實我們一般在談 今天的專報其實也有它的一個意義在這個召委也煞費苦心立法院的人事的一個同意權我相信大家都會肯認到就是說他其實同意權是要建立一個民主的正當性他倒也不是任何一方可以來去做一個壟斷"},{"start":7028.914,"end":7055.505,"text":"那本來憲法的一個設計就是一個相互的一個制衡的一個機制就是說總統呢 你享有對於人事的一個任命權程序權的一個發動跟人選如何來做一個形成但是呢 立法院是透過審查跟統一權行使來展現這樣的一個民主的正當性可是我看到啊我想說你們口主呢高祕書長 你四萬元大法官你現在缺了幾個人"},{"start":7056.877,"end":7058.258,"text":"檢察總長 法務部部長 理議法院同意權沒有過的話"},{"start":7078.098,"end":7089.104,"text":"到最後又變代理了通傳會的部分你們是幾個?四位嘛你們四位啊所以你們主委也代理嘛你們也代理中選會選三位但是你們主委現在就有人了嘛主委已經就任了所以你看嘛說有好誰的就比較容易去通過了"},{"start":7106.536,"end":7131.786,"text":"考試院建新秘書長 你們那邊也有缺額我們當時委員提七位 有一位沒有過關所以你們這樣欠幾個欠一位欠幾個一個 一個所以你看 這實在是監察院 監察院這個再來好玩監察院我看再來黃士卓秘書長 你想大位喔全部都卸任嘛"},{"start":7132.759,"end":7156.804,"text":"阿全部 希望大院真的能通過 時間到了全部都卸任阿大院希望大院能夠是啊 我的意思是到時候要有人 到時候就沒有人阿對 一定要通過 讓這個職權能夠繼續來進行所以這個也麻煩耶 你知道全部都變零耶哇 這個好玩喔 人事同意權喔我們一直在講說 其實它是一個制衡"},{"start":7159.304,"end":7184.26,"text":"那倒不是一個 倒就是形成我們立法院這邊變成一個癱瘓啦這個就非常可惜啦就說總統去提名啊立法院來行使這樣的一個審查 同意啊是共同來完成憲法的一個設計啊這各位其實啊 也不用去長篇大論 大家都很清楚啦就說人事同意權其實就是建立在一個民主的正當性就是說不是任何一方啊 可以來壟斷啊不然我如果壟斷 我總統提名我就要跪 不可能"},{"start":7187.382,"end":7209.841,"text":"立法院到最後只要誰人數比較多那我就把你給否決掉那同意權的一個行使那本來就可以我就不要可是問題如果全部是你送過來我全部都不要那就是造成這樣就是癱瘓我的問題會跟別人比較不一樣在座幾位苦主你們有沒有什麼好的良方秘書長來"},{"start":7214.441,"end":7236.219,"text":"要問我 這真的是總統跟貴院一定要去折衝協力我們只能這樣等待而已這也很麻煩耶 折衝 你說折衝又叫什麼 協力這個有說嗎 沒有說啊因為這個就是一個憲政體制我們有折衝啊 我們折衝之後就變熟了"},{"start":7238.056,"end":7266.196,"text":"出來的結果就是你們全部都缺啊來 劉建勳考試院的 你們的比較少嘛你有什麼補嗎其實當初我們的狀況當然也是經過各種溝通啦所以我想我的答案大概跟高明書長不會有太大的差別這個就很麻煩啦在野黨一定去跟你講說我這個就是在落實權力的制衡啦我們一直說都不會通過就是在癱瘓啦兩方講法就是如此"},{"start":7268.608,"end":7287.506,"text":"你們都沒有想法嗎 你們都沒有建議 給我們立法院建議不要立法院來 立法院我跟你講 現在就是執政黨賴總統提了什麼 立法院這邊就是不用說那麼多了 不送了 都不會過了制衡嘛 講的就是制衡嘛 到最後的結果就是癱瘓嘛"},{"start":7293.71,"end":7311.836,"text":"你會覺得人質同意權不是制衡的一個工具變成癱瘓國家的一個武器可是現狀就是如此會造成一個空轉所以今天的專報我是認為是讓大家去想凸顯這樣的一個問題就不用去罵"},{"start":7314.025,"end":7332.855,"text":"罵說這個人選好不好不用去罵說立法院為什麼全部都是否決調各方講法會有所不同但立法院是比較會招人詬病的地方就是連審查都不審查這是立法院我們自己有缺失的一個地方可是這造成一個問題部長"},{"start":7335.296,"end":7346.145,"text":"你像現在法界 或者說秘書長 法界它也造成一個寒蟬的一個效應每一批一批一批這樣被封殺完以後大家都想說 欸 後一批是不是我們會被擺脫掉這個也很好玩 這個有時候不用送到立法院來 不用全面對決我猜我就可以猜得到因為的確是 我們機構有徵詢 包括總長人選我們都有徵詢 沒人有意願"},{"start":7361.263,"end":7385.172,"text":"真的意願很低因為所以就變成說因為要總長要提名要提名一定要去去有一個德高望重品德非常學經歷非常的豐富而且在檢察官的威望有一定的聲望威望所以這部分很可惜那次的提名我們是是沒有或實在是非常可惜"},{"start":7385.692,"end":7396.354,"text":"那現在這樣的話,我們都有想過這個問題但是要提誰總是要醫院,每個都拒絕那變成說一個我們也是很困擾的一個問題啦"},{"start":7398.886,"end":7416.04,"text":"總統要提名,一定會問過你們他那個一定會有徵詢一些,譬如推薦徵詢嘛是嘛,是像譬如說選卷小組推薦小組,一定要有一個,好像一個題庫一樣這些哪一些人才,譬如說我要十個我可能去問初八、二十個,或是從這裡來選,看什麼人不錯還是怎麼樣"},{"start":7421.823,"end":7443.235,"text":"你不然他最近不該管啦因為德高望重啦學術在學界有聲望啦我想在學術有聲望跟那個在俗上或學界上會有聲望如果提名被否決這個是所以在業界裡面那是那是我想大概不願意自己以他自己來講不願意看到這種的結果啦"},{"start":7444.093,"end":7460.898,"text":"你有安的想法就不是如此你有安的想法你很有聲望你很有學術成就我理都不理你我連審查我都不給你審查這就變成意氣之爭啦說實在話現在就變成一個意氣之爭我的意思是說如何去這個互信完全都不夠你們也看得出來"},{"start":7462.209,"end":7481.966,"text":"各位苦主裡面看得最清楚 看得很多人都在點頭就是草野之間沒有互信 沒有辦法來合作不然共同來推薦其實都是很好的一個方式問題連共同推薦大家都不要所以就是說這個互信沒有辦法去建立尤其像中選會那是一個很獨立的機關"},{"start":7484.568,"end":7505.533,"text":"任何人來當中選會委員 誰能 你說他會站在什麼藍的立場 綠的立場 誰敢就是把那個選務去把它做好這高度的一個獨立的一個機關 到最後也是變成這樣不會過就是因為你不會過啊所以吃麻煩 麻煩如此啊 檢察總長如此啊所以顯然 總部長你這裡也沒有報還有什麼人沒有報 那個監察院 黃士卓秘書長"},{"start":7513.768,"end":7522.676,"text":"監察院的立場 我們會認為在司法院大法官的判決裡面 釋字632號裡面說得很清楚總統以及立法院都負有忠誠義務"},{"start":7531.184,"end":7556.164,"text":"也就在這個審理的過程提名跟審查的過程那我們會這樣子來看就是監察院總共提名有七類七款的規定那有七類的相關的專業那這相關的專業我相信在立法院審查的過程也期待立法院大院能夠針對這些專業對於這些提名人做忠誠的審查"},{"start":7557.265,"end":7561.931,"text":"所以我想這是一個最重要的一個我們要建議的方向"},{"start":7564.135,"end":7588.613,"text":"對一半這個在2024年以前講這些話都通了過了2024 520以後憲法法庭理論上來講大法官做出來的這些判決憲法法庭的一個判決本來是各個憲政機關本來都要收到約束連那個都是老百姓的權利義務很好的一個"},{"start":7590.018,"end":7599.89,"text":"一個指引可是呢你現在去講憲法法庭的一個判決大家視而不見就會很麻煩那個就會變成大家相互毀滅"},{"start":7601.328,"end":7627.558,"text":"我們本來是一個監督是一個制衡的一個地方憲政的設計本來也是如此可是走到現在大家我看你們起來都垂頭喪氣老百姓期待的其實就是立法院是一個權力的一個制衡這憲政機關的一個設計本來也是如此不是大家相互來做一個毀滅還是完全都是杯葛否則這個國家怎麼樣的運轉下去"},{"start":7629.979,"end":7650.708,"text":"我都覺得有點擔心啦你們沒有一四人都做官啦我們也沒有一四人都全部在做這個立法院啦所以有時候我就會想說立法院到底怎麼了怎麼大家在相互毀滅這個就非常的一個不好顯然你們也沒有補啦但是至少凸顯出來這樣的一個專報就是說立法院本來是一個"},{"start":7651.468,"end":7675.387,"text":"按照憲政設計他本來要進入一個民主的正當性我們是要來監督 我們是要來制衡我們不全然是要來毀滅說 哎 這是執政黨的因為你選贏我 我討厭你國會剛好我多數全部都是杯葛這個都是一場災難啊但是顯然各位沒有更好的解方各位有沒有解方的願意自告奮勇的都沒有"},{"start":7678.397,"end":7692.686,"text":"檢察院也沒有 考試院也沒有 司法院也沒有 通常會也沒有 公平會也沒有 中學會也沒有沒有答案了 這讓社會去評價 大家辛苦了苦主 但是還是要努力 謝謝好 謝謝莊昭偉接下來我們有請范雲委員詢問"},{"start":7708.834,"end":7711.323,"text":"好 謝謝昭葦 有請高秘書長好 有請高秘書長"},{"start":7719.672,"end":7739.237,"text":"剛剛我們熊站委員幹事長已經有告訴大家其實現在我們各院都有上來講目前的狀況目前其實我們可以看到我這邊也整理一個表格從2024年12月考試院算是最幸運的只有一個人被砍"},{"start":7740.317,"end":7758.647,"text":"那大法官您非常的清楚有七個人全部被否決然後2025年6月我們NCC後來2025年11月的時候6月的時候是立法院同意撤回四位提名11月的時候四位提名人都被否決"},{"start":7759.668,"end":7782.001,"text":"然後呢2025年12月連公視很多文化界企業界的知名人士有十位董事被否決然後再來的中選會也有三位被砍掉然後後來呢八個審查委員乾脆請辭就無法審查了所以公視董事現在已經幾乎難產然後"},{"start":7785.263,"end":7813.778,"text":"今年的五月檢查總長雖然只有一人但是也是非常嚴重的事情被否決目前首長為代理的部分我想您的報告今天有講司法院的代理是怎麼產生的我們是依照司法院組織法由當院長副院長出缺就是由大法官裡面來經總統指定"},{"start":7815.385,"end":7838.842,"text":"那監察院 國家通訊傳播委員會 公平交易委員會 最高檢察署都有代理的狀況 這個您了解吧是您了解 那我想請問您 您覺得這個憲政跟獨立機關首長以我們剛剛所講的持續缺額 持續需要代理 是一個民主的常態嗎"},{"start":7840.877,"end":7869.235,"text":"當然我們期待在縣政機關彼此之間一定要折衝前立出應該有的首長這是必然的您剛講的折衝這個部分我很同意可是現在需要折衝的不是只有一個機關我們看到的司法院監察院國家通訊傳播委員會公民教育委員會還有最高檢察署首長都是代理"},{"start":7870.909,"end":7893.266,"text":"那這些是不是都算是憲政機關 獨立機關對 沒錯這麼多的憲政機關跟獨立機關都持續缺額 嚴重到需要代理你覺得這是民主常態嗎當然不是當然不是民主常態那到底是為什麼"},{"start":7895.097,"end":7920.614,"text":"我剛剛在報告裡面說的這真的要仰賴大院、貴院跟總統跟行政一定要去折衝協力出剛剛秘書長也提到了實際的忠誠義務我只能夠這樣回答所以您認同就是說這麼多的憲政跟獨立機關首長持續缺額需要代理真的不是民主常態嗎"},{"start":7921.614,"end":7942.749,"text":"如果只有一個我們可能說這個是誰折衝並沒有做好或者等等但是這麼多個然後從我剛看到的這個表格2024年考試院算是受傷最輕的只有一位被砍到後來那您也認同這其實這麼多的重要的憲政機關獨立機關合格的人選都並不多"},{"start":7946.371,"end":7957.847,"text":"那是不是會導致其實再來的提名也會更困難因為願意擔任的人越來越少或許應該會有這種狀況因為有挫折感"},{"start":7959.366,"end":7961.608,"text":"我們是完全依照司法院組織法的規定"},{"start":7978.891,"end":8005.05,"text":"被總統指定任命的那你們是依照哪一個法處理這個代理應該是司法院處理第七條所以你們目前的代理制度完全符合相關的規範嗎是的就如同你們的報告是的那好我想您是司法院應該對我們的所有的法制都了解那考試院的部分那您的理解是不是也依照就是相關的代理規範對"},{"start":8006.491,"end":8022.582,"text":"他們應該就有三個是有規定的那就是它是依照考試院組織法第八條考試院院長因事故不能事事時由副院長代理其職務所以也都有遵守相關的規範嘛"},{"start":8023.883,"end":8030.207,"text":"那監察院呢 代理的制度有沒有遵守相關的規範監察院指示法也有相關規定那是哪一條法律 您知道嗎他們應該是由副院長代理的"},{"start":8040.474,"end":8060.713,"text":"是依照監察院組織法第六條就是院長出缺的時候由副院長代理其代理期間至總統提名繼任院長經立法院同意總統任命之日為止那您看起來這個副院長代理依照我們這個監察院組織法可能要代理到什麼時候"},{"start":8062.587,"end":8069.075,"text":"像組織法裡面並沒有期限規定因為一般民主常態不會想像到會有這麼多憲政機關無法產生人選"},{"start":8072.898,"end":8100.149,"text":"那當然像以司法院大法官他的任期介制就沒有了是所以其實副院長依照我們監察院組織法要代理到何時我們並不清楚嘛因為如果無法產生他們的任期介制的話其實跟大法官一樣如果原有就有任期那介制就沒有了所以我們以民主國家的常態目前的這些法規都並沒有問題嗎"},{"start":8102.28,"end":8128.519,"text":"最少我認為司法院組織法是沒有問題因為我們現在處理的就像您剛講的不是民主常態對不對可是跟委員報告好代理是一個法律規定的必要事項那至於沒有產生一直無法產生人選的代理就不是民主常態對不對沒有產生人選不是民主常態"},{"start":8129.179,"end":8144.249,"text":"可是不能說代理不是民主常態當然我同意就是代理是民主中偶爾會遇到的狀況當然需要而且法律原本是規範是良善的那現在我們遇到的狀況不是民主常態"},{"start":8145.009,"end":8170.716,"text":"因為就是國會的多數不管是因為怎麼樣的理由人選不夠好或是各方面或者是說什麼總統沒有什麼鞋子等等就是折衝的話那我們看到的就產生了一個非民主常態所以我們來看一下公交會國家通訊傳播委員會中央選舉委員會其實都有相關的法源依據都有相關的首長代理的規範"},{"start":8171.996,"end":8197.94,"text":"所以再來看今天很多的爭議重點之一最高檢察署現在的代理有沒有違反法源依據可不可以請部長來他比較熟悉所以鄭部長要回答嗎那請部長來回答好了就原本的法規是怎麼規定這個代理的"},{"start":8199.427,"end":8219.888,"text":"跟委員報告這個是法院組織法66條那其實那個他規定的是66條的那個第3第4款的就是種子有因故或因故出缺或無法實施而出缺這部分的確是要有一個一個要在三個月內要提出一個人選"},{"start":8220.709,"end":8243.023,"text":"那那個救命那個任命之後呢任命之後那個任期四年是重新起算而且不能連任那但是因為他第六款他第四款規定的是中途就在總長在在任期的中途之間因故或者無法實施的情形譬如說請辭這也是一個一個一個一個"},{"start":8245.902,"end":8274.791,"text":"一個的確是一個固嘛因固因為那另外第六款他是說總長卸職的時候要一第二款就是由總統來提名立法院通過後任命嘛這是第六款的一個規定那當然要提名這部分的確說如果說萬一卸職的時候如果說卸職沒有人選沒有過因為這個法律沒有規定到這部分那當然我們就會巡禮還有那些那個來做一些的指定那個指派代理"},{"start":8275.444,"end":8292.996,"text":"所以因為法律沒有規定因為法律並沒有想像到有這種非民主常態這麼多的人事案這麼多的首長最後都出缺需要代理那所以我想就是至少目前並沒有違反任何一個相關的法源規範嗎目前沒有好那請回"},{"start":8297.859,"end":8317.825,"text":"那我想呢就是討論了這麼久那謝謝剛剛高秘書長啦其實你點出了一個重點現在我們要討論的議題不是民主常態那所以呢我想我們想要把法規修得更精確應付非民主常態我沒有特別的意見但我覺得"},{"start":8319.425,"end":8336.476,"text":"應該要回來正視這個問題代理只是結果這種大量的憲政機關獨立機關因為人事無法通過需要代理的情況不是民主常態那不合理的杯葛人事案才是真正的原因"},{"start":8337.376,"end":8353.125,"text":"所以呢謝謝昭偉今天這麼的安排想要精確的讓非民主常態的狀況的法規更完善那我也請昭偉可以反映一下我們立法院是不是可以人事案回歸理性審查"},{"start":8354.306,"end":8366.344,"text":"停止這種系統性的癱瘓憲政跟獨立機關那也請朝委幫我們回應最根本的這個政治問題不要讓這種非民主常態持續癱瘓我們的憲政跟獨立機關好 謝謝"},{"start":8371.769,"end":8394.747,"text":"好 謝謝范雲委員的提醒我想我們立法院現在也都是很理性的去審查每一位人事案的被提名人當然我們這裡也呼籲賴總統可以一線趕快提名各重要權力機關人選包含大法官的提名好 謝謝接下來我們再請審發會委員"},{"start":8399.246,"end":8402.998,"text":"審發會委員審發會委員不在那接下來請徐宇貞委員發言"},{"start":8413.246,"end":8431.694,"text":"首先我想謝謝汪小林召委今天特別安排了這個我國憲政機關獨立機關首長代理制度的現況跟經濟這樣的一個專題報告來去凸顯目前我們所遇到的一個相關的重要的獨立機關首長的代理的問題"},{"start":8433.115,"end":8447.073,"text":"那當然我想對於我們立法委員來說我們最重要的當然就是要審查嚴格的審查這些不管是由總統或行政院所提出來的人選那這些獨立機關的人選"},{"start":8448.855,"end":8463.428,"text":"只要是有符合社會期待有超然獨立的這樣子的一個人格而不是硬推爭議的人選的話其實我們在立法院都一定會讓我們這樣子具有如果是具有"},{"start":8464.508,"end":8482.142,"text":"這個超然獨立然後沒有爭議的人選的話其實我們都會讓這樣的人選通過可是事實上現在我們發覺就是有這樣的問題常常提名出來的很多都是不管他的背景可能就是政黨色彩非常的濃厚或者是他也沒有超然獨立的這樣子的一個"},{"start":8482.962,"end":8510.153,"text":"一個中立性所以我們才會否決這樣的人選我想這是國民黨一直以來的立場也不容在這邊被扭曲那當然我想今天我們可以特別來針對這個部分來去探討就是首長因故出缺由副首長或其他人代理本來就是為了確保政務不中斷的一個權益之計但是本席也注意到近年來我國部分獨立的機關或憲政機關"},{"start":8512.694,"end":8531.883,"text":"在首長任期屆滿或因故出缺時往往出現一代理就代理非常久而且甚至透過修改組織法或行政命令讓應該經過立法院審查同意的首長由代理人無限期的行使職權那首長代理的制度"},{"start":8532.443,"end":8550.822,"text":"是不是已经变成执政当局规避立法院人事同意权行使的一个政治的桥门也严重的破坏了宪法上的权力分立跟制衡的一个原则所以在这边我首先要请教我们的司法院秘书长好 请高秘书长"},{"start":8558.717,"end":8573.567,"text":"我想今天的各機關的報告我們都很清楚的看到分開看都說可以依法辦理而且運作穩定但我們合起來看問題很清楚司法院是說我們民主正當性無虞"},{"start":8574.167,"end":8597.278,"text":"那考試院是承認制度不齊一司法院說運作穩定但NCC說只能維持基本的業務那公平會更說僅能勉強的維持我想這個部分的各機關都有不同的一個說法那當然我想司法院組織法第七條第五項是代理的一個合法的依據那但是呢"},{"start":8598.439,"end":8613.759,"text":"司法院的報告又說代理院長本來就是經立法院同意的大法官所以在民主的正當性無虞那請問一下高密署長就是立法院當時同意的是他擔任大法官還是擔任司法院院長"},{"start":8615.323,"end":8631.623,"text":"應該是司法院 應該是大法官對 當時我們同意的是擔任大法官而不是司法院院長所以說是不是真的有這個代理的這個正當性呢然後再來就是我們代理的這個條款是為了防止司法權的停擺啊"},{"start":8632.043,"end":8660.862,"text":"而不是因為讓院長能夠職務能夠長期跳過正式任命那既然當時秘書長也講說我們當時通過他是大法官的任命也不是院長的任命所以這樣的代理我覺得也不能化解這個同意權的一個僵局也沒有辦法就是沒有限期的這個限制也會讓我們的這個臨時代理變成長期的治理那請問一下代理制度我剛剛講了就是說如果只能靠各機關自己"},{"start":8661.903,"end":8665.266,"text":"跟委員報告我們並沒有變通我們是完全依照司法院組織法第七條第五項的規定產生的代理院長"},{"start":8679.025,"end":8700.206,"text":"對 那剛剛講了嘛 我們當時通過了BPM說它是代理的制度可是你們現在有限期嗎 有期限嗎因為法律沒有規定期限對 所以這就是現在我們發覺的有一些漏洞可是要跟委員報告 其實一位這個由其他負擔司法政務的首長如果你是短期代理那個司法業務一定沒辦法順利推展"},{"start":8700.897,"end":8727.202,"text":"那所以呢?所以你認為這樣的僵局應該怎麼處理呢?那就是要拜託大院跟總統你們要折衷協力趕快讓我們的民進黨出現那是不是也要請司法院也要拜託我們的賴總統要提出的人選是符合超然獨立符合這個中立性而且真正能夠讓社會各界所接受的人選呢?我在想這是各個憲政機關自己要盡到的忠誠義務並不是司法院要去建議的"},{"start":8727.985,"end":8747.903,"text":"那我想現在剛剛你也提到嘛賴總統應該是要跟立法院這邊來去折衝協調那我相信各院之間也應該有這樣的一個善盡你們的責任也應該要提出一個符合社會期待的各樣的人選那接下來我們請監察院秘書長跟法務部部長"},{"start":8758.618,"end":8777.369,"text":"兩位好我想請教一下祕書長就是說我們在監察院的報告裡面第三條有寫到監察委員已經總統提名立法院同意任命所以也不至於會發生未經憲法程序同意任命之人卻得以長期實質行政"},{"start":8778.369,"end":8792.601,"text":"行使本院院長職權的一個狀況所以說我想請教秘書長你講的這句我剛講的這句話是不是說代理人也是宣要經過憲法程序取得民主的正當性才能夠行使職權"},{"start":8793.482,"end":8813.23,"text":"是的 我們這邊的意思也是這樣 就是我們的監委除了院長 副院長以外的監委 也都是立法院同意後才能夠擔任所以代理人也是經過立法院同意如果一個沒有經過立法院同意的程序 就用代理名義實質掌權"},{"start":8814.671,"end":8835.339,"text":"那這樣的狀況是不是會變成變相的架空人事統一權破壞權利分立的疑慮呢我想我們只針對我們監察院監察院不會有這個問題好那請教一下秘書長就是剛剛你提到這個部分如果說剛剛我們提到人事總長徐錫祥他被提名為"},{"start":8836.239,"end":8859.062,"text":"這個人事總長嘛那剛剛如果依照您這樣子的一個說法的話已經到立法院否決現在又以代理名義行使監察總檢察總長的一個職權啊那這樣是不是就是未經立法院同意任命卻實質行使該職務權利的憲政一律呢這個解釋不是我們監察院無權來做這個解釋那我們好請教一下部長好法務部長"},{"start":8861.929,"end":8877.266,"text":"那針對剛剛我所問到的這個部分就是徐夕香被提名為檢察總長但是已經到這個經到立法院的一個否決那當然我想今天要探討就是說她代理我們的檢察總長這樣的職責是不是釋法"},{"start":8881.738,"end":8909.83,"text":"呃 代理齁 代理這部分是沒有違這個當然是釋法這個因為你們現在沒有這樣子一個相關的這個法這個代理事實上就是一個呃 事務 事務性暫時性的一個行政的一個處置齁當然現在徐義代理總裁代理一個多月齁一個多月齁那當然我們這個指定代理當然為什麼要指定他齁他當然說大院是沒有沒有那個一個一個一個通過的一個同意齁"},{"start":8910.47,"end":8919.516,"text":"但是我想代理跟一個任命的那是不同的一個事情但是因為最高檢察署不能夠一日沒有檢察總長那我們為什麼要指定他為什麼指派他我們那時候有推薦剛剛部長已經都有說明過我都聽到"},{"start":8927.301,"end":8945.883,"text":"但是呢 針對這部分我們剛剛也講我們現在是針對制度的部分不是針對人的部分他的代理是一個制度啊對 那現在他代理是沒有期限的嘛那所以針對如果我們要增加期限的話這樣的一個修法來修這個法院組織法那請問部長是不是同意呢我們是如果說真的要"},{"start":8949.373,"end":8963.828,"text":"這個當然要修一個就是明定代理那個期限因為我跟委員報告那個代理期限頻繁的如果說很短那個頻繁的更替的確不利於那個"},{"start":8966.19,"end":8992.341,"text":"總長職權的一個運作而且跟委員報告因為部長認為多久的時間才不算是期限太大這部分我們是建立建立如果說有一定要修法的話我想我們業務報告這部分我們講得很清楚了當然以我們是目前是我們認為沒有急迫性但是如果說真的要通盤考如果說要修法我們是說進行通盤考量機關功能跟實際運作的一個需求參考司法院組織法或監察組織法的規範"},{"start":8994.342,"end":9022.619,"text":"這樣就以立機關的一個實務上的一個穩定的一個運作我現在是請教部長說您認為應該要多久的期限呢這部分我想就是我期限我就是參考建立參考司法院跟監察院的組織法的相關的制度來因為剛剛您在報告的時候有提到嘛就有列舉過去其實有一些檢察總長都是有代理的潛力嘛您剛剛列舉了好多位那請問一下這些代理人當中啊有沒有任何一位是先被立法院否決為檢察總長之後又"},{"start":9023.9,"end":9045.175,"text":"被指定代理檢查總長的他那個這部分的確是這個是前例是沒有但是我跟委員報告那個代理的確是當然代理不能隨便找人啊他還是要去針對的這個比德超所威望因為我找我們那個推薦來指派代理的徐代理總長"},{"start":9045.936,"end":9052.741,"text":"他是最高檢察署的主任檢察官剛剛我聽到您的報告您舉了這些檢察總長我知道您剛剛已經有講過很多次我非常清楚但是呢我剛剛提到說您"},{"start":9061.047,"end":9076.022,"text":"您提出的這個歷任檢察總長代理的這樣的一個勢力其實跟現在的這個徐錫祥這個代理檢察總長的狀況是完全不一樣所以我們今天特別為什麼會提出這樣的一個專報就是希望能夠把它法制化能夠讓代理能夠有一個期限"},{"start":9078.724,"end":9100.02,"text":"所以本席在這邊也希望我們應該是要面對現行這個制度的一個亂象所以本席是認為應該是要有三點具體的一個要求就是第一個明確的限縮代理的期限不能像現在這樣就是完全都沒有這個期限的限制"},{"start":9100.64,"end":9126.742,"text":"第二個就是要嚴格限縮代理的權限像美國的聯邦空缺改革法也明確的規範代理首長在代理的期間僅能維持日常政務的運作不能進行重大政策的更變更也不能核定爭議性的法規亦不得進行高階人士的凍結或者調動第三我希望是能夠全面檢視並修正相關的組織法那也希望"},{"start":9128.502,"end":9152.987,"text":"針對這個委員任期屆滿未能產生新委員那原委員的延長的執行這個職務或者是由副主委代理的這個條款應該要刪除不合理的過度無限期延長的規定也希望行政跟立法機關能夠積極的面對人事的同意權那在這邊請問一下部長針對剛剛我所提的三項的這個具體的要求您的回應呢"},{"start":9154.115,"end":9173.713,"text":"我想美國的制度我想跟我們台灣的法制是不一樣的那代理檢查總長這的確性質是法定的代理那職權無法分割 不能說就是日常代理我想我們心中有人名因為總長那個訴訟法 刑訴訴訟法441條非常上述是"},{"start":9177.457,"end":9188.252,"text":"總長具名的如果說像我們採美國他只能做日常事務的代理那我們老百姓的訴訟權現在我可以說我現在的重點是當然不是說我們要跟美國一樣是我們最在乎的所以要"},{"start":9193.078,"end":9194.139,"text":"我現在提的這個美國的聯邦共識改革法為什麼會提這個是因為他們是認為能否繼續代理統一職務最高的法院認定了代理制度不能削弱國會的統一權"},{"start":9208.456,"end":9227.643,"text":"所以美國是連等待同意等待同意都設限制那現在台灣卻出現已經被立法院否決卻能夠代理的這個職權的問題所以在這個部分的話我們是覺得連美國的這個最高法院連被提名人在等待同意時繼續代理都認為會削弱國會的一個同意權所以我們現在的狀況又更加嚴重所以這個部分我是希望我們"},{"start":9237.526,"end":9251.667,"text":"我覺得我們應該是要好好的來去面對一個相關的問題如果說好認為剛剛部長也講了就是說修法如果有這個必要性的話我們是建立一下司法院跟監察院的處置法各位再強調"},{"start":9252.768,"end":9276,"text":"我們心中是有人民 人民的輸送權這是憲法保障的權利那也只有總長他具名 才有他個人具名來幫老百姓 幫我們這些人民來增長爭議來跟最高委員會非常上訴我們不否認檢察總長有這樣子的一個職權但重點是要經過立法院同意立法院審查同意的 我覺得這樣通過的檢察總長他才能夠真正超然獨立去行使他的職權以上 謝謝 謝謝部長"},{"start":9280.523,"end":9306.128,"text":"好 謝謝許宇珍委員我想我們這次提這個法案我們是這個立法委員心中絕對是有人名而且可能比法務部還更有心中更有人名我們希望整個的這個代理制度它能夠明確化因為代理它畢竟是一個短暫我不要讓它變成一個是常態化的機制其實這個其實也無利於這個有關於訴訟權益各方面的保護好 那最後一位是洪孟凱委員洪孟凱委員"},{"start":9309.807,"end":9325.902,"text":"侯孟凱委員不在那麼今天所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢詢答結束那委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或已書面答覆者我們就請相關機關盡速送交給個別委員以及本會"},{"start":9328.103,"end":9344.378,"text":"那委員蔡奇昌、沈發慧、吳宗憲、傅坤祺等委員所提的書面質詢就列入記錄刊登公報並且請相關機關以書面答覆那麼我們今天的會議就到此結束那現在散會也謝謝大家謝謝這個機關所長們"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}