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出席委員已足法定人數我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第五會期交通委員會第二十次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年六月二十四日星期三上午九十至十時五十九分六月二十五日星期四上午九十二分至十一時五十六分地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員劉浩等十四人列席委員"},{"start":1423.957,"end":1435.654,"text":"蘇清泉等5人列席官員6月24日交通部政務次長伍聖元國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹等6月25日交通部政務次長陳彥博等"},{"start":1437.745,"end":1452.831,"text":"主席黃昭吉委員建豪6月24日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項一至六繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部鐵道局及所屬國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算"},{"start":1455.012,"end":1477.931,"text":"附屬單位預算分營業部分關於鐵道發展基金台鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金通訊傳播監督管理基金有線廣播電視事業發展基金決議一本日預算審查結果照協商結論通過二本日通過之決議文字授權主席及議事人員調整三第一案至第六案均審查完畢"},{"start":1478.833,"end":1488.955,"text":"內容如審查結果4本會主審115年度中央政府總預算案關於附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分均與審查完略"},{"start":1490.325,"end":1513.261,"text":"五 拟据附属单位预算营业及非营业预算审查报告含附财政委员会提报院会讨论六 院会讨论前需交由党团协商院会讨论时由本会黄钊级委员建豪及林钊级委员郡县出席说明审查结果交通部铁道局及所属单位预算一 税务部分第二款第150项改列为1975万元"},{"start":1515.903,"end":1541.875,"text":"第三款第122項照列第四款第162項改列為五億六千三百五十四萬九千元第五款第八項無列數第七款第159項照列二歲初部分第十四款第七項照列本項通過決議28項國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算一歲入部分第二款第十八項第三款第十一項第四款第十九項第七款第十九項"},{"start":1542.995,"end":1558.295,"text":"二 稅出部分第二款第十四項均保留本項提案三十六案保留送運匯處理附屬單位預算非營業部分依鐵道發展基金依業務計畫因應審查結果隨同調整二 業務收支業務總收入照列"},{"start":1559.817,"end":1567.185,"text":"業務總支出改列為15億6,832萬6千元本期剩餘改列為99億78萬7千元三 結繳公庫金額四 轉投資計劃均無劣數五 固定資產建設改良擴充照列六 國庫增波基金額無劣數七 通過決議八項二 台鐵局撥入資產及"},{"start":1581.019,"end":1581.039,"text":"3通訊傳"},{"start":1604.11,"end":1620.82,"text":"撥監督管理基金預算一 業務計畫二 基金來源用途及餘處三 結繳供庫均保留四 提案36案保留送用會處理四 有限廣播電視事業發展基金預算一 業務計畫二 基金來源用途及餘處三 結繳供庫均保留"},{"start":1621.6,"end":1646.592,"text":"4提案15案保留送院會處理6月25日討論事項審查道路交通管理處罰條例部分條文修正草案案等14案本日會議由委員張志倫等說明提案要旨由交通部政務次長陳彥博等報告後藉由委員李昆澤等11人提出質詢均經次長陳彥博及相關人員分別予以答覆"},{"start":1647.572,"end":1675.947,"text":"決議一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員有號等四人所提書面質詢均列入記錄並刊登公報三 委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆四 討論事項個案均另定期繼續審查散會 宣讀完畢好 請問各位委員對於義事錄有沒有意見"},{"start":1677.861,"end":1703.152,"text":"沒有吼 好 那意思不確定那我們現在介紹在場委員首先侯孟楷委員再來邱若驊委員陳雪生委員我們介紹列席官員數位發展部部長 林應金部長數位策略司 蔡壽全司長"},{"start":1705.694,"end":1727.409,"text":"任性建設師 牛杏仁司長資源管理師 曾文芳司長數位政府司 王承明司長資料創新司 莊明芬司長數位國際司 莊盈智司長主計處 吳俊裕處長私通安全署 蔡福隆署長"},{"start":1737.393,"end":1760.202,"text":"數位產業署林俊秀署長國家自動安全研究院許建榮副院長財團法人台灣網路資訊中心黃勝雄董事長財團法人電信技術中心江亮君副執行長財團法人資訊工業測經會范俊毅執行長"},{"start":1764.417,"end":1780.165,"text":"行政院主席總署公務預算處顏于平檢任視察本日進行數位發展部資通安全署數位產業署單位預算的處理我們現在進行協商同時請議事人員宣讀預算書及委員提案"},{"start":1830.049,"end":1846.209,"text":"好部长各位同仁我们现在处理115年度总预算案数位发展部的单位预算我们先看这个通案部分第一案第二案的部分业务费大陆地区旅费及国外旅费"},{"start":1848.936,"end":1852.098,"text":"提案委員有這個萬美玲委員跟余晃委員"},{"start":1874.551,"end":1891.004,"text":"好 谢谢赵伟了这个国外旅费我想其实我在那个提案表上也写得很清楚那我先讲我是希望能够冻结10%冻结的方式来做那当然就是说这个预算在114年的时候你编了983万然后到了115年变成2082万"},{"start":1895.808,"end":1918.365,"text":"那國外旅費可以說是暴增那在看到我們相關的出國計畫那就發現當中有很多的會議是說要維持國際好關係要建立一些所謂的國際聯防的機會等等增加能見度、話語權但是這一些看起來好像不是我們原本在蘇巴不應該在優先的這個施政的或者是業務的內容的一個項目"},{"start":1920.166,"end":1941.479,"text":"那相關的資源其實非常的有限那抒發部的人員啦或者是我們的這個預算經費其實我覺得都應該用在本業的刀口上居多啦讓它可以變成最大的效益但是呢抒發部編了大筆的預算在這個國外的旅費上面這個會議的效益看起來跟業務性的關聯其實比較低我想是不是能夠好好的說明一下"},{"start":1942.199,"end":1958.675,"text":"那如果有迫切需要當然我們會支持可是如果我覺得跟本業務上面其實不是關係這麼大的我覺得應該公帑是要謹慎使用好 謝謝 所有不回應謝謝委員 這一題請我們國際司司長來回答"},{"start":1964.34,"end":1985.151,"text":"是 謝謝委員那第一個部分呢 國外旅費的部分因為去年的部分是因為預算總的總算那所以我們在下半年是做預算的追加那追加其實我們只有抓下半年需要的經費所以經費才會跟今年比起來會有一定的差距那第二個部分呢是在於整個國外旅費的編列"},{"start":1985.991,"end":2013.366,"text":"其實我們是依照我們數位發展部本身的四項主要的業務包含黑暗的發展跟自然韌性還有打造跟深化數位政府等四項去做編列那所以整個編列的狀況下其實在今年我們也在國外的執行上也包含重啟整個歐盟的一個數位談判就是針對於台灣跟歐盟相關比較重要的一些合作細節包含人工智慧或者是半導體等等相關的議題進行談判"},{"start":2015.507,"end":2034.639,"text":"那另外在資安的部分其實我們有包含跟美國很多的一個資安的互作合作所以這部分整個國外的在今年的編列上其實我們都是合適的一個編列那所以我們會上次也有跟委員辦公室這邊做過充分的討論那我們就是同意說是不是改成書面報告"},{"start":2042.843,"end":2058.107,"text":"改書面報告我沒有意見啦 當然看趙偉決定啦但是我還是這樣覺得 就是因為剛剛的答覆我覺得稍微比較這個還是粗糙了一點因為明明我們在上面看到的告訴我們這筆預算就是要做一些什麼國際聯防的機會 增加國際聯防的機會 維持對話等等"},{"start":2063.208,"end":2089.228,"text":"那當然我們這樣去看起來要增加我國的能見度那我都覺得這感覺是不是跟速發布要做的事項不能說沒有關係但是這關係稍微遠了一點因為速發布我剛剛提到嘛預算有限人也有限要做的是這麼多我們現在不管是打詐啦AI啦尤其是我覺得打詐這件事情上面大家都會覺得速發布其實成效不彰那這時候我們去做比較遠的事情的時候我覺得同仁的這個這個業務的這個"},{"start":2092.611,"end":2107.745,"text":"力量的分配那以及就是社會的觀感我覺得會比較差所以如果要改成書面報告我沒有意見但我是希望能夠讓我們更清楚了解這筆所謂的國外旅費到底要做什麼所以我想我的提案是凍結10%然後等一下看交委處理"},{"start":2109.747,"end":2136.059,"text":"好啦我們就處理吧那個就原則上凍結10%啦然後你們就提書面報告然後剛剛萬委員有提的部分也會列一紀錄也希望也要求你們書發部要提這個報告裡面要回應萬美林委員的意見好那我們這個通萬第一第二案的部分就是凍結10%一個月內提出書面報告last的動之接下來我們處理第三案跟第四案並安處理講補助費對於團體資捐助的部分"},{"start":2139.743,"end":2162.504,"text":"總金額是兩億五千一百五千一萬七千元提案委員魯明哲陳慶隆委員讓他看看兩位委員有沒有要補充意見好 任慶隆總召好 謝謝趙偉那有關於我提出的一個第四案第四案最主要就是健全政府是為服務基礎環境起源才培育這個部分"},{"start":2164.906,"end":2182.123,"text":"講到人才培育我想世華部應該都是非常專業的人才尤其他這個項目底下最重要是捐助國家資通安全研究院資安院的預算也包含在裡面"},{"start":2182.944,"end":2203.03,"text":"那這個部分我們也看到了 治安院的內鬼爭議包括自己的切群侵害收集我們自己治安院的內部資料所以治安院本身的內部管理真的出現問題那如何強化其內部資料跟隱私的管理"},{"start":2205.191,"end":2227.921,"text":"治安院這邊也好 司法部這邊也好 都沒有提出具體的說明那這個是非常嚴重的一個問題這些起尿器 咖啡袋 內鬼 處在自己單位內所以我在這一個部分 我主張 我這邊是要保留"},{"start":2230.589,"end":2233.511,"text":"好 羅委員好 謝謝主席那我提問是第三案"},{"start":2257.023,"end":2274.26,"text":"一樣是我們資安院的一個問題啊因為這個上報已經非常多次了那今天我們在講省預算或者質詢啊他最重要的一個用意啦就我們正好蘇巴部也是在我做立委之後成立了其實全民的期待包括我相信行政院整個政府"},{"start":2274.66,"end":2286.967,"text":"大家都有非常大的期待你們需要很多幫手所以你們成立了治安院這整套體系到現在實在是讓大家有點想不通想不通這是事實啦所以我在這個案子也覺得說"},{"start":2288.74,"end":2317.534,"text":"居然在我們的治安的最前線最重要的單位發生了這樣的內鬼案我個人是還是覺得非常不應該但是我聽到院長已經辭職了院長已經辭職了執行之後已經辭職了但我覺得內控還是嚴重的失職還有怎麼樣的一個機會讓他去整理所以我這邊提出凍結10%希望能夠提出報告 實得動之 以上說明好 我先速發部先回應一下"},{"start":2319.862,"end":2347.817,"text":"謝謝兩位委員那個關於資安院的管理雖然說前一陣子的那個內鬼事件是由我們速發部主動發現主動處理但是在管理上面我的確認為有疏失那也如同盧委員所說的我們現在資安院的林院長他願意承擔起這些政治還有管理的責任所以他現在已經辭職了所以我們是不是請那個許副院長說明一下現在的狀況"},{"start":2355.036,"end":2372.912,"text":"我必須講說這件事情其實是在我們年初的時候自己主動發現主動查辦立刻通報我們的院長就是我發現說立刻通報院長還有董事長還有蘇發波的部長那邀請立刻找大哈局進來主動介入偵辦"},{"start":2374.133,"end":2386.049,"text":"那關於這件事情事情發生之後319這個偵查事件發生之後我們的董事會也立刻組成"},{"start":2387.04,"end":2411.072,"text":"組成獨立調查小組來處理這些行政的相關事宜那目前準備在六月底的時候提出了這些檢討報告要怎麼去管理那相關的一些比如說一些治安的弱點我們在319之後也開始陸續的做內部的處理因為我們在319之前我們沒辦法去處理這些東西謝謝"},{"start":2415.577,"end":2439.023,"text":"我是蘇花部資安署署長那我特別要再補充一下剛剛許副院長的部分事件發生之後其實我們蘇花部部長這邊只是非常要嚴格去處理這件事情所以我們大概第一個我們由董事會這邊來就是成立一個獨立的這個調查小組來做一個調查就是我們要先做這個事情那我們做這件事情第一個就是調查完之後我們就第一個要成立一個資訊資安的專責單位來處理這個相關資安的議題"},{"start":2442.324,"end":2467.052,"text":"那第二個是我們要加強內部控制制度有些規範不完整的部分我們一定要把這個規範做得更完善然後讓同仁可以遵循那第三個是要做同仁 先進同仁的教育宣導因為同仁他不知道說這樣做是不對的有些技術人員他對技術很熟可是對一些法令規定不知道說這樣做其實是違反相關的法令規定那最後一項就是我們行政責任的追究包括剛剛部長提到的"},{"start":2468.513,"end":2482.57,"text":"包括裡面的目前有停職的也有相關被開除的另外就是院長承擔責任來做這個相關的承擔總責任所以我想我們大概就分析事項後續治安署這邊會來跟隨相關改善的這個事項以上補充報告 謝謝好 國民政委員"},{"start":2488.248,"end":2511.597,"text":"這項是不是可以改書面 委員這項是不是可以改書面報告好 謝謝主席 這個我也不想抬槓 但是我補充說明一下因為我看到剛剛部長跟我們的副院長 他不斷的強調主動主動但是已經慢了 不是慢半拍啦 去年發生的事情 你今年說我就主動查報"},{"start":2512.997,"end":2535.485,"text":"說真的因為我們希望你們是AI時代有些立場我們總覺得等待人去發現是蠻恐怖一件事情就是整個常常半年多的時間應該要有一些更聰明的發現異常的機制以上建議好那這樣子啦我們先講補助費的部分我們當然先凍結10%一樣10%然後一個月內提出報告"},{"start":2539.212,"end":2568.122,"text":"那在健全政府數位服務基礎環境及人力賠利一億五千八百一十萬四千元那一部分我想確認一下我們陳青榮這招的意見三一千萬如果你三一千萬你要保留嗎還是你要保留再處理我保留再處理好保留再處理好我們這部分我們在健全政府這個部分的一億五千八百一十萬就保留送協商好"},{"start":2576.107,"end":2578.308,"text":"有關於第四案也請林部長必須要做個說明相關的預算"},{"start":2598.251,"end":2615.157,"text":"檢列或是凍結預算經費20%對相關的資安院以及相關的政策推動會有什麼影響因為我們知道數位部是2022年成立當然它對於數位的建設"},{"start":2616.797,"end":2641.999,"text":"數位的轉型以及數位的韌性尤其是國家的自通安全跟建立國家數位政府都有重要的一個重要性那現在這個提案的委員相關的提案當然我們也尊重不過還是必須針對相關的政策預算不管是簡略或是凍結會產生什麼影響"},{"start":2644.241,"end":2657.206,"text":"部長也必須要明確提出立場來做說明好 我們請部長說明但是我跟崑禎報告這個部分應該是送解部分就先10%啦當然後續保留送協商嘛那我們請部長回應"},{"start":2659.52,"end":2673.854,"text":"謝謝委員的指導我們這個資安院的這個獎補助基本上資安院有兩部分的重要任務一個是就是對於那個緊急狀況的處理我們有一些那個會有一些團隊在處理緊急狀況"},{"start":2675.916,"end":2703.506,"text":"那另外一部分更重要的就是如同剛才盧偉偉所講的現在有很多的那個資安的防護是必須靠AI的然後AI的進步非常快那這些關於AI這些新的這些技術的應用如何應用在那個資安上面這是我們資安院一個很重大的任務像譬如說之前前一陣子有那個Anthropic Mythos Review那個還有Budget Glass Wing等等這個是我們"},{"start":2704.606,"end":2723.919,"text":"這些蔣補助案主要的需要的原因所以對我們來講如果說凍結的話當然會有一些影響以上報告好謝謝部長那我們現在請林俊憲召委發言謝謝主席主席你剛剛的財政是第四案就是改為凍結10%"},{"start":2726.261,"end":2738.054,"text":"然後送結賬嘛對 所以就是修正後所以原提案要修正改為動10萬然後送結賬好 謝謝我確認一下 謝謝主席修正沒錯謝謝 稍微提醒"},{"start":2746.182,"end":2762.414,"text":"我尊重朝偉啦,我原來是整個案子要送保留嘛,那你現在凍結就改10%嘛對不對,那我就因為你第三案、第四案一併處理嘛,那就送10%但是我的部分,這一個預算我要保留"},{"start":2764.457,"end":2785.433,"text":"沒有,這邊就沒有,這邊先不刪了這邊他這邊不刪嘛,不刪然後,這一帕就是這個向下部分送協商沒有啊,獎補助費,獎補助費,獎補助費動10%"},{"start":2790.066,"end":2809.98,"text":"對不對 但是等於第三案 第三案動百分之十啊蔣國柱會動百分之十啊 那第四案呢第四案正常我是可以整案送保留啦一個決議就是不修正嘛 就是我整案送保留啊整案就 啊如果"},{"start":2812.466,"end":2819.93,"text":"第四章第四章一百一十五年,六百年,十八年,十八年,十八年,十八年,十八年"},{"start":2834.299,"end":2838.822,"text":"行政部門關鍵民生系統經濟預算備份請回覆經濟預算預算預算預算預算預算"},{"start":2851.791,"end":2870.982,"text":"他們永遠在處理 他不處理我不處理對 我現在不處理不然因為部長不同意我刪嘛然後我整個還是就刪1000這邊可以就決定那你評估一下 你們要不要你只要刪1000 那我就不送血我就不保留刪1000 都10%"},{"start":2873.479,"end":2899.999,"text":"三一千萬當保姆之使然後你報告啦好不好好不好那就三一千我尊重主席的才智啦那我尊重主席好謝謝慶豐總召好那我們好那我們重新三一千你們部長你那邊有什麼不在難題的嗎你可以講嗎三一千你們可以講嗎部長陳學生委員請說明就如同我們剛剛講的不管他了啦那就我們的主席的才智三一千萬就三一千萬三一千萬"},{"start":2905.124,"end":2921.743,"text":"學生委員學生委員好啦沒關係啦我們重新宣告對不起我們重新宣告我們這一部分第三案第三案的部分凍結百分之十第三案部分凍結百分之十那三點一千萬元"},{"start":2925.44,"end":2931.105,"text":"一般行政人部分一般行政是六億四千六百四十八萬五千元提案委員有沒有補充意見"},{"start":2951.682,"end":2971.041,"text":"好 謝謝主席我在這裡的提案是第五案最主要這個一般行政我提出凍結這個一千萬元那主要的原因是因為我們看到我們蘇巴部編列了6.46億這個一般的行政費但是之前因為我們執行了詐騙通報查詢網APP"},{"start":2973.123,"end":2989.445,"text":"但到目前為止下載量只有一點還不到兩萬人說真的啦我自己也覺得有跟你們分享這種慚愧感六萬嘛有目前成長兩千一百萬現在六萬人我看還是不多啦"},{"start":2990.086,"end":3004.342,"text":"因為這個故事是您那時候從次長開始我們從開始去詢問到底細節是如何未來做好之後希望成效是如何我都覺得不是說我們現在在挑跟你們當時的願景跟期望"},{"start":3004.963,"end":3023.161,"text":"有頗大的落差那到底是什麼原因我相信今天媒會委員或者我們的國民朋友經常接到那種我們不想要的促銷不要講詐騙看到莫名其妙的新聞我們不想看到的就推播給我們我想數位部站在我們數位的前沿"},{"start":3023.962,"end":3041.314,"text":"你們這樣的保護人民受詐騙的通報網讓多人知道我們希望你們能夠透過主動推播的方式讓更多人能夠在用手機的時候來接到你們這樣的訊息所以我覺得這個部分我凍結的主要原因以上說明"},{"start":3044.13,"end":3057.72,"text":"好 謝謝盧委員那我們現在請陳青榮總召發言謝謝教委那我在這邊提出的是第七案那第七案的資訊管理資訊服務費那在114年的時候只有編列的7161萬那今年"},{"start":3065.245,"end":3088.737,"text":"增加了1435萬那變成到8597萬那完全的增加預算而沒有任何預算增加的一個支出的一個說明跟一個合理性那我在這邊基於他這樣的一個預算增加沒有一個基礎"},{"start":3089.577,"end":3100.022,"text":"那我主張刪減他增加了1435萬那我足以減淚400萬足以減淚400萬那凍結1000萬那我可以如果我這個案不保有的話那我就堅持要刪減400萬我要刪減400萬那凍結1000萬那改順便報告好 謝謝陳慶龍總召好 那我們現在請蘇大夫回應一下"},{"start":3119.557,"end":3123.58,"text":"關於第七案我們請資訊處王處長來說明一下各位委員大家好我回覆一下陳委員關心的"},{"start":3137.37,"end":3164.06,"text":"資訊經費的部分因為那個經費主要是在針對速發部本身的基礎工作是所以列在一般行政類並不是一些其他額外的科發或者其他經費那主要增加的原因大家也都知道因為現在的治安的法規通過以後的很多的治安的一些執行項目都增加然後不管是我們的一些防護設備或者是一些控制措施然後還有一些要去偵測防護的東西那另外一個方面就是我們的一些服務都要上以"},{"start":3164.48,"end":3179.893,"text":"那現在設備都漲價那所以我們一些維運的工作其實它經費也不斷的提升那很抱歉這剛委員的指正就是我們沒有對項目說仔細的說明那我們會針對委員剛才的指示我們會在一個月內專案報告裡面會提出說明"},{"start":3181.834,"end":3199.052,"text":"說明把這個經費用在哪裡跟詳細的內容做一個仔細的說明不過就是在經費的部分因為現在整個趨勢經費都一直在漲啦不知道委員有沒有坑親委員就是同意在凍結跟刪減的部分就是主要減金額這樣子讓我們可以盡快的把一些工作服務做好以上報告"},{"start":3200.293,"end":3217.984,"text":"OK那另外就是盧委員提到的網站通報查詢網的部分那跟盧委員報告就是說現在下載量最新的數字是超過六萬八千人然後通報的件數在上個月已經超過一百萬件了然後實際下架的"},{"start":3219.626,"end":3234.278,"text":"詐騙的訊息數量已經超過50萬件了那因為我們這些件數我們這些通報的件數大部分都是到META那邊所以META也是配合我們的工作他們用我們提供的資料去訓練他的模型然後到去年"},{"start":3235.038,"end":3253.572,"text":"7月的時候他們給我們回報的數字他們已經下架了720萬則針對台灣的詐騙的訊息那這個已經是一年前了那因為他是商業的公司他沒有再給我們進一步的資料但是應該是已經超過1000萬則我們是利用這種方式來處理所以還請委員多多支持謝謝"},{"start":3262.659,"end":3282.834,"text":"主席大家好這個針對第七案剛那個我們陳委員的提案當然就是說差了一千四百萬但是現在其實資訊真的是業務越來越多那AI其實現在是時代的潮流現在事情越來越多你如果經費本來就越多"},{"start":3284.275,"end":3292.6,"text":"所以我們也希望說那個民眾黨就是說如果要刪的話真的是還是能夠拙減啦不要這麼堅持不然大家事情沒辦法做謝謝"},{"start":3301.44,"end":3316.13,"text":"我們的提案謝謝各位委員的指教也謝謝蘇華部的一個說明業務的增長業務的增加當然我們的一般行政的費用當然覺得越多越好啦"},{"start":3316.69,"end":3341.976,"text":"坦白講我們也了解啦那這個部分其實我對書畫部我一直是要主張全書保留的我想這個部長也了解啦那既然我們今天都在這邊來針對我們的預算來做一個討論那這個部分我足以檢列足以檢列我就這邊從400足以檢列200"},{"start":3344.617,"end":3370.029,"text":"前列兩百那終結書由教委這邊因為有跟第五案第六案一塊嘛那終結書由教委主席這邊來做決定那我這邊我主張三減兩百萬所以三減兩百萬那你增加了一千四百三十五萬六千元沒有任何的說明沒有任何的所以三減兩百好"},{"start":3373.228,"end":3382.634,"text":"好謝謝陳新東總召那部長部長你們看一下喔如果在這部分我們三減兩百萬全案凍結一千萬"},{"start":3384.946,"end":3400.635,"text":"是我們尊重委員的決定那是不是改一般就改書面報告以上好好那我們就這樣處理了我們五到七案的部分我們凍結一千萬元好提一個月的提書面報告三減的部分就三減剛剛提到兩百萬第七十萬"},{"start":3406.485,"end":3409.167,"text":"我的是32案然後跟那個吳立華的33一起講"},{"start":3433.342,"end":3453.302,"text":"那就說我們偏鄉的通訊有時候真的是在災難的時候會變成通訊孤島那蘇發部也在這邊有給我們加強就是用衛星終端設備來加強不過就是說現在的點你們本來是可以做773站那現在做196站"},{"start":3456.725,"end":3471.652,"text":"那這個是不是有機會能夠在最短的時間內來加強那我這個凍結兩百萬只是個一時的提醒是不是這個書畫部這一部分要怎麼加強好 謝謝"},{"start":3474.946,"end":3495.343,"text":"好 接下來請冠政委員謝謝昭偉第21案就是數位韌性業務有關於第二節數位國際業務編列的預算是1億6111萬元那主要是我認為應該要考量數位發展為了要加強他的算力"},{"start":3496.304,"end":3513.699,"text":"以及帶動GPU等晶片算力的需求這樣的一個成長那當然所需的電力也會增加我們必須要借進先進國家在強化數位發展與進行永續發展"},{"start":3517.532,"end":3534.874,"text":"當然這對我們進行檢探的數位科技是至關重要那數位部也來跟我對話以及說明那數位部目前也依照我的要求針對國際能源總署美國、日本、新加坡"},{"start":3535.635,"end":3551.638,"text":"歐盟等國家或者是國際組織的辦理情況已經要進行研究那我同意改為決議案一個月內提出相關的書目報告以上好 謝謝坤哲偉現在請林俊憲召委發言"},{"start":3554.724,"end":3573.01,"text":"謝謝主席 本席先就第十四十五案 這是林月琴委員委託我們在我們委員會所提出來主要都是希望速發部能夠再積極加速AI對兒童影響的一個制度性的推動和規劃"},{"start":3574.953,"end":3593.665,"text":"能夠智慧的兒少影響評估目前都在原則性的規劃所以他希望中華部能夠積極的來履行法定職責同時應該要提出書面報告內容包括了AI風險分類的框架納入兒少風險的評估具體項目"},{"start":3597.228,"end":3616.863,"text":"以及要來督促一些數位的工具包數位平台目前針對兒少的上網安全的技術工具仍然是由教育部主導這是第15案數位發展不是作為平台的治理機關那麼要如何來發展發揮統籌的整合功能"},{"start":3618.284,"end":3630.156,"text":"這個讓法規案平台機制間的連動希望訴發部門能夠提出更具體的一個做法那本席也提24項24項主要是關於我們執行推動數位憑證皮夾"},{"start":3634.62,"end":3662.468,"text":"我看這個下載人數就還是非常少那實用人數一定是更少了那這方面蘇澳部有沒有如何再繼續推動積極性的推動能夠增加讓更多人了解你推動這些數位憑證皮夾我的政府花這麼多錢如果看不到績效這一點就請蘇澳部要提出報告還有就是三十案現在蘇澳部已經開始編錢來做那個6G的"},{"start":3665.77,"end":3684.828,"text":"地空的整合評估的國際觀測現在我們看到5G的失敗現在5G甚至被評估為這個根本就是一個大騙局所以5G現在在台灣開台也超過6年台灣整體的滲透率還不到五成"},{"start":3686.229,"end":3713.257,"text":"所以未來如果像6G的話那麼普及安用現在你就要來推動那對於5G的失敗那我們要如何來避免所以相關政策的推動和市場需求基礎的評估請蘇澳部應該要審慎那也應該要提出說明報告本期提出都是凍結案那請蘇澳部提出報告我使得凍結 謝謝好 謝謝曲前召委接下來請魯明哲委員"},{"start":3715.014,"end":3740.533,"text":"好 謝謝主席我提的就是第11案第11案在我們數位策略業務總共編列了6171萬餘元那這邊提的是凍結5%主要是因為我們這個預算主要是辦理數位韌性資料整備AI治國以及國家數位發展白皮書就我們據我們了解你們要辦理這些的委外委外來規劃辦理"},{"start":3742.995,"end":3765.043,"text":"那我也不知道你要委託給誰啦當然對部分的有一些委外我是個人是沒有意見啦但是你現在這些委外的一個計畫在名稱上面讓我覺得有一些可能會變成同一件事情或者包含在裡面譬如說最大的國家數位發展白皮書那會不會包含AI"},{"start":3765.823,"end":3786.637,"text":"治理呢會不會包含數位任性等等的一個計畫我是覺得這整個那個我不知道你們跟我們那個說明的過程中感覺有很多相同或是互相包含的一個規劃我建議如果有把它包含在一起我覺得要遵截預算所以我希望你們再去研究來提出書面報告以上"},{"start":3795.703,"end":3810.473,"text":"感謝蔡委本期題26案跟35案35案已經溝通過那我也肯定速發部在做韌性相關通訊網路的一個努力那但是拉回來講第26案"},{"start":3814.045,"end":3841.403,"text":"本席提到就是說最近大家台灣社會都非常關心就是毒品駕車的問題這已經不是第一次提到那麼多委員大家共同關心行政院長也都說他已經震怒了那我們都知道說現在毒價那麼嚴重其實就在於是電子煙的氾濫電子煙是違法的產品到目前為止台灣就是沒有上市就是非法那也已經加強了一個法例但"},{"start":3842.404,"end":3853.973,"text":"我為什麼今天在審查預算的時候我要把我的筆電帶過來因為我剛剛就是隨便上網搜尋用部長告訴我們的"},{"start":3858.533,"end":3872.256,"text":"部長告訴我們的關鍵字就可以查到至少三四個網站我還不是什麼網路駭客高手我就是Google就Google這個關鍵字"},{"start":3888.709,"end":3909.871,"text":"所以駭客也入侵了你看就可以搜尋的到上面品牌主機應有盡有一應俱全1500免運費說最快今天下單7月1號7月2號可以在你家旁邊7-11拿到"},{"start":3912.56,"end":3938.503,"text":"我們今天真的我就不是黨派的問題真的是我們國家可以允許說有這樣子的非法的業者那麼的神通廣大一千五百塊免運費然後我們今天下單兩天後7-11拿到那這已經討論很久了而且現在那麼氾濫的一個事情那你不要告訴我說速發部沒有能力處理這個問題"},{"start":3940.205,"end":3963.69,"text":"我上一次在質詢的時候我必須要再跟部長講同仁都很辛苦啦同仁都有來我辦公室跟我解釋都說做了多少努力說跟這個衛福部怎麼樣的開會我說我都知道但是重點是你只要讓我們看到現在還在網路上持續找得到抱歉那就代表努力還不夠那就代表我們還沒有找到正確的方法去嚇阻他魔高一尺道應該要高一丈"},{"start":3965.578,"end":3987.006,"text":"部長那天還跟我講說沒有啊這個是這個搜尋啊他的那個關鍵字下得好還是我們不能遮屏啊我就直接找到他是下廣告的你看這上面Google他是直接寫贊助搜尋結果贊助搜尋是什麼概念啊就是他下廣告給Google啊"},{"start":3988.206,"end":4012.345,"text":"他下廣告給Google第一個可以超商取貨現貨供應總計台灣關鍵字供應商我都不要講為什麼因為我越講好像好像被幫他打廣告或是教我們這些青少年怎麼樣去搜尋他但實際上那你們都知道那個關鍵字是什麼啊啊為什麼連這個都沒有辦法去要求Google不讓他上廣告"},{"start":4014.183,"end":4028.496,"text":"平台賺錢啊錢是平台在賺結果讓賣來給我們的這些消費者然後消費者可以找到那我再講最後一個事情是有沒有在做其實我也看到有啊你也真的有能力啊因為"},{"start":4029.912,"end":4051.971,"text":"我在找到有一些網站點進去就確實他到時候跳出這個啊本網站本網域已被衛福部用相關的法令給要求下架所以有嘛但是我現在講的是說有一些被封屏了但是他有更多的非法的網站又持續的增生"},{"start":4052.992,"end":4076.957,"text":"那之前來我辦公室的時候我也提過說其實要求Google只要做一件事情就好就新的那種莫名其妙的網域新開通然後馬上要求他下廣告大量廣告投放的那一定就有問題嘛有沒有新網域一開通馬上要求下大量的廣告要打這個市場那就有問題啊很顯然的"},{"start":4078.083,"end":4090.286,"text":"那我們多要求他去檢視說他到底上的廣告內容是什麼人工審查 人工審核符合我們相關法令規定你才可以允許他上架否則我罰你平台應該做得到吧"},{"start":4091.499,"end":4108.439,"text":"但是現在還是沒有做到我歡迎所有速發部的同仁查一下現在Google一下手機拿出來查一下到底搜尋搜尋搜尋搜尋得到還搜尋不到因為這個就是我剛剛坐在這邊搜尋到的"},{"start":4110.759,"end":4137.638,"text":"所以本席的26案我來跟我溝通的時候我沒有把它測案我要求說一定要在現場來做討論我也想的是本來我想的是說今天我在審查的時候如果我搜尋不到我這一案我就不堅持了但沒想到我還搜尋得到還不止一個平台兩個三個四個我要求到最後這個這一幕"},{"start":4138.737,"end":4161.236,"text":"那個凍結刪除的金額我尊重我們大家一起討論但是我堅持要提出相關報告今同意後時的動之今同意後這個文字我不測那我一定要經過我們同意我們才可以讓他動之這一幕的預算以上謝謝"},{"start":4164.079,"end":4165.921,"text":"好 謝謝我們開會員 接下來請陳青龍總召喂 謝謝啊 謝謝我們召委那有關於第八案到39案 我要提出"},{"start":4187.766,"end":4191.471,"text":"第十三案第十七案第十九案第二十二案"},{"start":4202.823,"end":4226.054,"text":"第39案還有第37案跟38案那我提出都是三減預算的一個提案在這邊我們都了解我們對修發部的一個期許非常的深那修發部目前的一個作為讓我們是普遍"},{"start":4229.192,"end":4247.685,"text":"如同洪門凱委員所提出的我們的這麼多的一個網站這個詐騙的一個事宜還有我們在這一幕當中我們相關的一個業務那我們都希望"},{"start":4251.947,"end":4279.735,"text":"民眾來解決問題尤其在我們的一個Meta的一個狀況詐騙猖獗的一個狀況等等那我這邊是統籌在這一幕所有我要刪減的理由我在我的提案說明都講清楚了我也不在這邊一案一案的在重複了我想我們市法部這邊尊重我的一個刪減理由應該也都了解"},{"start":4280.595,"end":4299.634,"text":"那我在這邊所提出的案子,總共的3900萬,3900萬就在這個第二幕那我這邊我的主張,為了要讓我們書畫部更能夠積極,更能夠有效的作為"},{"start":4301.275,"end":4308.74,"text":"我可以 我可以 主張的3900萬 我主張3200減滅1900 就刪除2000萬 刪除2000萬那在第三部有科目 有司法部執行來調解 專案報告改書面報告 改"},{"start":4322.629,"end":4340.214,"text":"那個凍結樹的部分由主席這邊來做決定就好那我在這邊我就同意三減兩千萬可不由蘇華部執行來調整那全然我就跟那一天協調或本來即使部長都知道啦我本來是要全部"},{"start":4341.534,"end":4361.501,"text":"送那個政黨協商的啦但是為了讓大家的預算審查還有司法部這邊的一個作業那我就在這邊做這樣的一個讓你們也好作業但是也要督促我們司法部真的要積極的作為快速的回應民意的反應"},{"start":4362.361,"end":4387.642,"text":"好不好 我在這邊就尊重主席 那我3900萬我就主張剪裂2000萬 都結束由主席來決定那專案報告都改順便報告 OK好 謝謝沈慶東總召 接下來請軍縣委員 張偉謝謝好 謝謝主席剛剛我們集會委員談的其實是一個廣泛性受大家批評很久的問題"},{"start":4389.083,"end":4411.663,"text":"就這些所謂很多的犯罪性的廣告商品都在平台上在台灣好像是無法可管一般現在不要說是不要說是電子煙你直接買煙彈都買得到那些股票詐騙的各式各樣的詐騙新聞廣告這一大堆"},{"start":4416.758,"end":4436.338,"text":"目前我們常常批評說話部到底能不能管平台根本不理會政府這個問題不能讓它一直存在所以剛就集會委員發言的內容我也同意我們確實說話部應該要提出你到底要怎麼為了要怎麼來處理"},{"start":4439.021,"end":4461.836,"text":"你看現在的所謂的詐騙基本上極高的比例都是在網路發生因為我們得到這些詐騙的訊息都來自於網路如果你法律的工具不足那你就要立法如果你不需要的話那你要留意我來執行那這個部分也請出發部能夠來做說明好 謝謝好 許志堅委員"},{"start":4469.451,"end":4493.733,"text":"好 謝主席這個我再跟民眾黨總召報告一下事實上我看這邊三個其實比例都蠻高的像十三案三千萬三五百萬這個比例很高然後十七案兩千萬三兩百萬也十分之一"},{"start":4495.956,"end":4525.16,"text":"二十九案五千萬刪五百萬也十分之一我想這個比例是不是可以再調降一點所以針對剛剛刪的兩千萬是不是可以再拙減 這個第一個那第二個就是說剛剛林俊憲委員跟那個洪明凱委員提到的這個電子菸剛剛我上網一下那個蝦皮蝦皮也很多蝦皮在台灣做這麼大的生意要進它一個電子菸進不了嘛"},{"start":4526.798,"end":4552.492,"text":"是不是塑化部跟相關單位研究一下我在針對你啊你已經在我台灣做這麼大的生意一個電子人員叫你不賣你做不到那看有沒有什麼其他相關的可以處理是不是請塑化部也跟其他單位可以研究一下好 謝謝好 謝謝各位的發言我們先請塑化部先回應一次等一下有意見再補充再補充我們先請塑化部回應"},{"start":4555.885,"end":4569.953,"text":"謝謝各位委員那關於那個任性的方面等一下請那個我們任性師牛市長做說明那關於那個電子菸的部分非常感謝各位委員的指教那等一下請那個素產署的署長來說明"},{"start":4571.334,"end":4585.412,"text":"事實上這個預算是速發部本身的預算但是其實電子菸現在主要是速產署在處理還有那個資源司資源司等一下也請那個曾市長簡單的說明我們現在的一些作為那就如同幾位委員講的這個因為電子菸這個"},{"start":4587.495,"end":4601.439,"text":"它不斷的流竄,我們不斷用各種方法去把它阻擋但是這個當然是這些賣這個電子煙的這些集團它會不斷的閃躲,那等一下我們會再說明OK,那還有那個"},{"start":4606.56,"end":4624.927,"text":"是 稍微各位委員接下來大概就主案跟委員報告第28項那個邱委員提的邱若驊委員提的案子我們大概他的提案宗旨是有關MOKEN這個案子跟這個我們事實上在115年大概已經做了一些相關的案子有關於雲端化"},{"start":4625.467,"end":4651.73,"text":"那同時也這個針對未來的細流的氣球部分在去年已經做過那今年我們會做所謂的無人機去做機台做高抗災的方式那微波的話我們也在持續的補助也進行了相關演練所以第28案的部分我們建行那個專案報告改成書面報告那並經同意以後予以修正那第31案的部分的話在陳樹葉委員提案的話我們遵照辦理"},{"start":4652.671,"end":4681.455,"text":"那32案跟33案徐姊姊委員提的有關於非同步軌道衛星的這部分總共我們維護以前是建置了770個點那現在僅能維護196個點那事實上我們這個部分在國防部跟內政部的部分由他們自己來自行維護那我們也建構了所謂的共同公益契約讓各機關都能夠用共同公益契約直接進行採購降低所有的行政成本"},{"start":4681.875,"end":4706.388,"text":"所以有關於三十二案跟三十三案吳立華委員已經同意我們凍結改為兩百萬所以我們就遵照辦理三十二案跟三十三案我們都遵照辦理第三四案萬委員提的有關於那個資本安全研究院的這個部分我們已經在前年已經將資本安全研究院的後續改案提供一個說明給萬委員"},{"start":4707.529,"end":4722.442,"text":"我們建議改為書面報告並同意後刪除就是改為書面報告那第35項的部分我們跟洪委員洪沐凱委員報告以後已經改為主決議謝謝委員我們遵照辦理"},{"start":4725.195,"end":4746.209,"text":"至於三七案三十八案的稍微提的有關於我們資安院的部分我們的維護總共有一億兩千六百多萬這個第三七案那因為減免兩千萬實在金額非常大那整個資安院雖然出了這件事不是我們這個補助案可是這個預算是我們"},{"start":4746.949,"end":4762.099,"text":"NCCSC最主要的預算那NCCSC在負責什麼呢就是所有的通船領域的海欄這些東西發生故障的時候通報應變還有這個我們的教育訓練還有我們的這個快打部隊都在這個案子裡頭"},{"start":4762.859,"end":4783.704,"text":"所以這個檢列兩千萬實在是九千萬檢列到兩千萬實在是可能沒辦法希望稍微能夠再考量所以這部分真的建議能夠檢列數能夠變少那我們建議改成凍結百分之二十然後提出書面報告後那並經同意文字刪除與修正"},{"start":4784.364,"end":4808.562,"text":"那第38案的部分的話我要跟召委報告38案的部分是任醫師在補助海嵐最重要的一個案子那這個案子它涉及到整個國內跟國際的海嵐的補助不管是事前事中事後那這個案子實在是太重要那我們減利500萬元這個真的是對於國家的通訊認識有重大影響"},{"start":4809.463,"end":4837.442,"text":"那是不是請召委在能夠審慎的考量這500萬我們真是建議不要去做刪除那而且這個案子事實上平常都在做處理我們舉個例子馬祖原本國內還能維護的日期維修日期是110天那前陣子馬祖2號跟3號其實在七幾天就完成了這個就是靠我們這個機制在協助業者在加強這個"},{"start":4839.443,"end":4860.209,"text":"能夠提早的修復所以這個案子真的建議不要去做任何的檢列因為這個案子對於國家的任性通訊還有離島的權益都有重大的影響是不是能夠建議不要檢列然後改成書面報告那並經同意經同意後建議能夠修正刪除以上報告"},{"start":4867.932,"end":4878.775,"text":"等一下我們先請崑哲委員報告召委長期交通委員會的傳統對於離島的相關建設及需求尤其是馬祖"},{"start":4879.963,"end":4906.147,"text":"我們都是全力的支持那我們也請說部針對馬祖的這個海底電纜的部分也請再做一個補充的說明這對馬祖的這樣的一個海底電纜以及相關的通訊以及相關的這樣的一個韌性的建設會產生什麼衝擊我先請魯明哲委員發言你要講話嗎"},{"start":4909.628,"end":4933.651,"text":"那我想請教一下我先請教一下市長第三期案第38案各有1億多元譬如說第三期案你們到6月的執行率是多少第三期案報告召委因為它這是一個補助案所以事實上我們已經簽約以後它直接就可以支30%以上所以它其實三期案是一個補助案所以這補助案補助給誰啊補助給資安院"},{"start":4934.952,"end":4958.518,"text":"那資安院的案子其實這個提案的要已經全部都補助出去了嗎對對對他現在就是簽正在簽約當中所以簽約完以後就補助出去了所以你剛剛講重要性是幫資安院說的嗎不是是38案那他這個案子最重要的原因是因為所有的海染通報應變跟所有的CI的通報應變都在這個案子裡頭那因為他是一個你們現在補助他多少錢呢9346萬"},{"start":4962.419,"end":4981.566,"text":"副院長9000多萬目前殖民率是多少不是我們就了解一下狀況好不好來補助給你們這一條這一條目前的這一條殖民率手邊有沒有數字手邊沒有數字但是我們每一季都會匯報給"},{"start":4983.627,"end":5003.862,"text":"所以錢到那邊變成通用型的吧你看他點頭我的天啊 師長你在說故事啊說這個沒有的話會死人結果一到那邊 治安院變成一個大水庫理論進來是不是那你剛剛幹嘛點頭好啦 第三十八案呢三十八案你剛剛講的目前的執行率多少"},{"start":5006.942,"end":5013.458,"text":"說清楚嘛我們要幫你 因為這個要刪很多啦 直接問清楚目前執行局還這個也是補助的"},{"start":5014.987,"end":5036.651,"text":"包委員這個案子已經在公告了馬上在六月底大概就要受理申請那這是補助給電音事業的那電音事業的話大概就是事前事中事後海嵐的事前事中事後所以到現在還沒發包出去他那個不是發包他是補助的方式等於是我們補助49%電音業者提出49.9%以上所以到六月還沒補助出去對因為他"},{"start":5036.991,"end":5053.966,"text":"他是為什麼你講說每一個月沒有他好像都會死的那種感覺你剛剛所說的話我聽到就說我原本覺得布林山英文分分秒秒時時刻刻那這個部分我不太懂我要倒過來問你說前半年都過了那這個因為是"},{"start":5055.307,"end":5082.197,"text":"你們可以發包已經上網了代表不是新星計畫不是新星計畫所以先講不要說委員把他卡到不是新星計畫你們會不會發包太慢了好不好研究一下好不好 就這樣好 許一霸曾學生委員金融周圍總統你不要給我抬喔你殺到他就殺到我了是這樣喔"},{"start":5083.946,"end":5111.484,"text":"剛才那個盧委員講是不是不能刪是可以刪啊你通通把它刪掉也沒關係問題你把我電纜刪斷了有沒有我電纜斷了沒辦法修沒辦法修的話老百姓老先生老太太就把孫子啊就帶到電信局門口因為他網路就不通了嘛你知道嗎所以你不曉得李導維的痛苦啊他家電纜海南線一斷有沒有那個斷咧"},{"start":5113.291,"end":5132.503,"text":"然後他們又講說這個老共那邊蓄意破壞那有的不是啊我們去查的結果不是後來我們我們這邊執政黨也去查了以後確實也不是老共破壞有的是有是的部分我不知道啦因為要有證據嘛對不對所以這個拜託金融召委喔"},{"start":5133.686,"end":5154.476,"text":"三十七、三十八這個拜託你不要刪啦因為他用錢的時機真的不知道你知道嗎你斷了一條就是三四千萬、三四千萬、三四千萬那個有一些是不是他們執行中華電力在執行啦所以我拜託各位委員有關有跟剛才牛市長提出的這一塊三十七、三十八"},{"start":5155.555,"end":5160.438,"text":"總統你到那邊去 海南斷線的痛苦拜託好不好 這個手下留情 謝謝好 親王委員好 謝謝我們學生委員的一個協助說明"},{"start":5174.108,"end":5200.091,"text":"我想在這一幕,我剛剛已經很清楚的一個說明如果依照我的提案,總共是三千的三千九百萬那我已經吸出三億,就是只三出兩千萬只三出兩千萬,而且在科目裡面有我們科目資訊"},{"start":5201.552,"end":5216.719,"text":"在這一幕裡面來可能進行調整那當然啦我也謝謝蘇華部我們特別就針對我提的第37案跟第38案特別來提出一個說明"},{"start":5219.72,"end":5233.364,"text":"當然我們也知道我們的海底電纜我們的一個通訊的一個必要性所以寫生意委員的一個說明我非常可以接受那是第37案"},{"start":5235.385,"end":5261.644,"text":"第三十七案完全的一個補助的一個國家自動安全研究院就補助9000多萬另外一個單純的一個補助給我們財團法人電信技術中心也是3000多萬所以這樣比就一億兩千多萬整個完全補助"},{"start":5262.825,"end":5283.447,"text":"那我們了解治安院的一個狀況我們剛剛一開始我們所談的就是治安院的一個狀況那整個司法部我們把我們的一個世衛職員的這樣的一個通訊的一個韌性的業務完全就靠治安院"},{"start":5284.128,"end":5297.947,"text":"那我這邊三選兩簽那剛剛的休眠說這個也不能刪那寫生委員的我不能刪對不對好那還沒有"},{"start":5299.689,"end":5319.973,"text":"繞回來我們自決委員也說我前面包括我的第13案、第17案、第19案三檢的比例過高那我在這邊我已經表明三億萬塊沒有,3900萬我在這邊如果要一條一條來處理"},{"start":5324.594,"end":5337.976,"text":"我想對蘇阿布是更不好處理的啦那我在這一幕啊我從3900減去到2000我雪山這500萬我絕對不動好不好沒有這500萬啊你38那就3減1500萬對啊2000再扣500啊1500萬好啦好啦先這樣就這樣好不好雪山委員"},{"start":5353.635,"end":5379.865,"text":"那你要讓我刪2500嗎刪500就好了沒有全部啦然後整個墓整個墓刪1500整個是4900對啊整個是4900好 等一下我們先向數位部回應一下我們向數法部有夠回應還來沒有刪喔那位委員 那個是另外一間沒有啦沒有刪了沒有刪了這邊一定要說明清楚還來沒有刪喔"},{"start":5389.036,"end":5407.423,"text":"剛剛陳憲宏召委有說到那個13跟17還有19這個部分因為13的部分我雖然是三五百萬但是我要跟召委特別報告因為這個部分在數位策略我們今年剛好有做了AI算力中心的促參案"},{"start":5408.203,"end":5435.984,"text":"那這個部分呢我們現在目前有三案其實民間的投資金額就達到了新台幣422億元那未來呢還有將近有四家潛在的廠商要投那這個部分呢對於數位策略師大概部長交辦給數位策略師來做我們大概現在目前這一款的行政費用大概都在做這一部分所以說三減的500的部分會建議委員因為我們的那個數位策略師的經費不是很夠所以這部分"},{"start":5436.944,"end":5457.144,"text":"3.5百萬能不能往山改動那至於在17的部分就是人工智慧推動跟自理裝備這個部分因為現在行政院已經核定了我們AI的風險分類框架那未來大概我們在兩年內要完成法規的調適所以同時還有在做那個各部會的那個"},{"start":5457.845,"end":5472.017,"text":"在117年以前要完成法規調適以及高風險的認定所以這兩個部分因為都是屬於全國性跟涉及到各部會的一些協調的過程所以這個部分就陳情委員能夠去斟酌"},{"start":5473.138,"end":5487.58,"text":"所以說大概在書畫部的部分因應AI的快速的發展所以我們很多的預算也都是彈性運用的調整那這個部分呢大概請委員斟酌至於那個國家"},{"start":5488.861,"end":5513.931,"text":"數位發展白皮書推動這個部分也要跟盧偉文說明大概我們這個部分現在已經會朝向AI行動藍圖的部分來治理所以白皮書的部分只是很小的一部分部長也叫我們去做AI生成影像的標示還有網路爬蟲的一些指引的訂定所以這個部分目前都是在做AI行動的藍圖這樣那我們在後面的書面報告也都會特別的說明"},{"start":5515.126,"end":5533.167,"text":"是我們這個部分都是做三個部分其實現在做的部分01 02 03都是做不一樣01大概是在做AI算力02大概做AI風險分類框架03的部分在做AI治理所以這個部分在請昭緯的部分能夠特別的能夠給我們斟酌以上"},{"start":5540.851,"end":5561.938,"text":"我這邊跟委員們報告一下上次是拜訪洪委員,洪委員特別關心Google的搜尋排序的問題那我們馬上找Google來對談那Google有三點承諾第一個,沒有人可以購買電子煙的廣告連關鍵字都不行所以剛剛洪委員查到,我們就要找Google來談這是他的承諾"},{"start":5563.138,"end":5590.353,"text":"第二點他願意跟蘇華部建立快速通關的綠色通道就是我們只要notice and tap down我們馬上通知他他會在最快的時間把那些違法的網站下架這是第二點第三點是更正向的他願意跟政府部門來教怎麼去做SEO就政府部門以後人家查電取年政府這種防制電子淹的這樣子的一個網站就會排在前面因為這個是SEO"},{"start":5592.514,"end":5611.561,"text":"這就是企業界常用的做法這三點是他的承諾這個是洪委員這邊我們至於洪委員查到我真的要跟找Google來談談看第二個是林委員說蝦皮上還是可以找到這個電子菸的部分那我剛剛查了其實我沒有找到那因為我是用近一個月的"},{"start":5616.348,"end":5634.804,"text":"我是用近一個月的部分,如果真的有,我們會找蝦皮來討論一下我們過去三令五申,蝦皮也一直很配合,如果有查到的話,我們要找蝦皮來對談,來討論一下我剛剛是用一個月內,我是沒有查到啦,這跟徐委員的報告,以上"},{"start":5638.826,"end":5652.673,"text":"那個我們來試著先來我想都差不多回應了我們整幕來處理討論很多大家都回應到了嗎各位的議題都回應我們整個數位認識業務的金額是11億2346萬6000元那我們先處理看看我們這樣子我們整幕11億2346萬碰我們3減1500萬"},{"start":5667.019,"end":5674.71,"text":"客戶自行調整但是不能刪到我們的這個海底電纜尤其是這個外島海底電纜的部分好不好我們這樣下這個但書"},{"start":5677.579,"end":5704.174,"text":"那凍結案的部分我們就統一凍結10%但是26萬要經書面要經這個立院統一後才能凍之黃木海委員剛剛有特別有提到這個電子驗的部分26萬要經統一後才能凍之其他部分使用書面報告使得凍之然後21案跟35案我們改成主決議我們這樣處理各位委員可以接受嗎"},{"start":5705.615,"end":5709.778,"text":"可以吼 好 那我們就這樣處理好 最後一步 OK好 那這樣就這樣處理吼"},{"start":5725.816,"end":5736.622,"text":"好 接下來我們處理40到62案政府數位業務的部分好 各位提案委員有沒有要表示意見邱若昊委員"},{"start":5737.398,"end":5762.271,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我提問的是第14案健全政府數位服務基礎環境及人才賠利編列5億5287萬那其中包含關鍵民生的系統的跨境還有公有餘端備份還有回覆那我看到書發部這邊初步的回覆是一方面說各組織機關都已經完成備份還有回覆演練可是另外一方面又說核心的功能要到115年底才能完成"},{"start":5762.791,"end":5791.15,"text":"我要請問蘇發佈那所謂的完成演練到底是部分的資料還原還是整套系統可以從境外雲端回復到境內可以做到恢復正常的服務那另外這些系統也涉及護證醫療還有重要的民生服務一旦中斷影響的是人民生活和政府的持續運作那蘇發佈竟然也知道這項計畫非常重要不要只用有辦演練還有課程有定指引交代過去那以上補充說明然後這邊維持凍結一千萬"},{"start":5793.332,"end":5797.977,"text":"第四十萬有關於政府數位業務第一節健全政府數位服務基礎環境及人力賠利那這個預算是5億5287萬"},{"start":5813.135,"end":5831.869,"text":"這個計畫的內容主要是要辦理政府數位服務公司協力的機制以及政府無障礙網路空間業務等等按照無障礙網路空間服務網的資料顯示"},{"start":5833.991,"end":5843.125,"text":"那輸入發展部的相關的一個網站標章等級是有3A級是兩個"},{"start":5846.042,"end":5868.979,"text":"2A級49個那1A級有5個那考量數位部作為推動這個政府無障礙網路空間的一個重要的單位那應該優先加強我們所轄網站的這種無障礙的建置那必須要提出精進的作為啦"},{"start":5870.06,"end":5891.952,"text":"那數位部也來做說明那我還是繼續要求要精進我們所寫的這些網站那加強提供無障礙的一個數位服務這是我們重要的一個責任那我同意改為決議案一個月內提出書面報告後解凍以上 謝謝好 謝謝 我們請許志堅委員謝謝主席 我的是48案"},{"start":5897.301,"end":5916.896,"text":"那針對速發部我們這個資料傳輸的安全性現在T-Row應該是已經都完成了那再來就是說政府部門這個雲端的備份那我想知道就是說現在整個T-Row的"},{"start":5918.403,"end":5932.498,"text":"進度跟我們政府部門可以雲端備份的進度到底到什麼程度所以我這個小動30萬希望能夠書法部給我回覆 謝謝好 羅兵哲委員"},{"start":5933.786,"end":5956.006,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我提的是47案跟51案47案已經有兩位委員說明了其實我們最主要的一個想法是目前關鍵這個民生系統雲端備份回復計畫因為到底什麼叫做關鍵 什麼叫做重要那基本上我們數位部當然尊重各部會自行提報 自行盤點但因為在網路世界"},{"start":5956.687,"end":5979.346,"text":"很多資訊也許在A機關他認為不是關鍵但是B機關他有聯動沒有這樣的一個資訊舉個例子啦譬如說車牌資料那可不可以會引發其他好幾個系統包括警政能不能去追溯所以諸如此類我只是舉例說明諸如此類我是建議說在整個提報完之後我們數位部要針對整個系統整個部會"},{"start":5981.408,"end":6007.431,"text":"也要能夠提一下他在其他機關有沒有一些聯動的相對關鍵性的我覺得啦是對未來真的發生了一些重要的資訊災難的時候還有一些回復補救的一個計畫所以這邊提一個凍結案希望提到你們這個更明確的說明第51案最主要是這邊你們是深化政府資訊應用的一個建設我這邊也是"},{"start":6009.252,"end":6035.204,"text":"提議是凍結5%其實最主要的一個原因是在這樣的預算應用的一個計畫但是我們看到因為國際比較重要的一個數位評鑑早稻田大學2023年全球數位政府的評比台灣從2018年發展5年之後成立本來沒有數位部現在成立數位部從第9名滑到第15名"},{"start":6036.425,"end":6065.985,"text":"那這個提案也說113年有可能降至20名所以我們看到在同樣一個指標除非你們認為這是不公平的在國際的某一個指標上面我們不斷的下滑我們到底在我們的伊政府有怎麼樣的一個檢討的空間甚至有一些入口部分的縣市申辦上架的服務還是為零項所以數位政府其實不容易因為數位政府其實不是數位部"},{"start":6066.585,"end":6077.712,"text":"是整個的政府到底有沒有上來那這個的部分雖然很無奈但是要推動這整個才是我們的分數這個部分我也覺得要進一步說明以上好 請陳慶隆總召好 謝謝秋熙那我在這邊提出了第53案 56案還有57案跟59案"},{"start":6091.34,"end":6117.479,"text":"那最重要我想我們在53案當中所以政府的AI適用場域跟創新計畫那我想AI的一個部分那包括我跟司法部所了解的那目前我們不管是我們AI的適用場域智能化政府的路口網站"},{"start":6119,"end":6143.034,"text":"但是這樣的一個計畫我們整個發展的一個期程階段性的任務跟KPI的追蹤還有所謂優化後所謂呈現的一個成果那這個AI主題淪為煉材跟重用的一個藉口就是我們都用AI然後就這樣要變預算"},{"start":6144.955,"end":6173.483,"text":"那為了防止我們這樣的預算的低床駕屋所以我在這裡提出了一個刪減的部分那另外第56案第56案最主要是AI深圍詐騙的一個案子今年我們看到AI影片的製作在各網路平台長期在擴散尤其這個深圍的技術"},{"start":6174.723,"end":6181.869,"text":"讓我們很多民眾已經對於AI所做的所謂的農產讓民眾物以為真這樣的一個情況"},{"start":6194.258,"end":6216.65,"text":"那我們司法部碰到這種情況是用個案成形的一個方式來有效二組AI造假影片的一個擴張所以在這樣的過程變成我們錯誤的資訊繼續的在誤導社會大眾這我們也看到很多我們政府的一個政策被錯誤的應用然後"},{"start":6219.171,"end":6241.653,"text":"在網路大量的一個傳播也造成了我們香港的一個困擾那另外在第五十七案當然就是人才的一個問題整個對AI人才的一個導入培養"},{"start":6243.915,"end":6256.361,"text":"這樣的一個部分但是到目前為止我們看到真正的人才我們伺服部是留不住但是就空辦了就持續的開辦了我們所謂的訓練課程跟學習認證"},{"start":6261.784,"end":6290.723,"text":"那我們了解依照目前為止我們真正的AI人才我們並沒辦法成正的一個延展那也續到第59案也是要監制我們一個資料匯流的一個機制那也是在講我們的AI訓練AI的一個訓練所以我們在這一幕尤其在第二節這個部分"},{"start":6293.025,"end":6306.518,"text":"整個用AI就變了五億零六百八十萬所以AI就不用了,用一個AI不可以變了不管在這裡我總共還是因為"},{"start":6310.982,"end":6338.398,"text":"各界來處理我們書畫部這邊都有他的理由那我在這第三幕我總共提出三檢的金額是兩千一百萬那我在這邊我也了解我們書畫部一定會來做說明我要提案說明提案理由他們也適度的一個說明所以在總共三檢"},{"start":6338.598,"end":6357.656,"text":"三檢的兩千一百萬我可以進行調整為三檢為一千萬科目進行調整那有關中檢的部分尊重主席的一個決定那有關專案報告之後可以改成書面報告好 謝謝陳青龍總召好 那接下來我們請事務發布先回應"},{"start":6360.209,"end":6370.817,"text":"謝謝各位委員關於數位政府的部分我們請數位政府司的王司長來說明那關於這個AI審委的防範我們等一下請策略司的蔡司長來說明謝謝"},{"start":6373.567,"end":6393.878,"text":"好謝謝各位委員的一個指教那我們接下來來針對委員的一些的指教做一個簡單的一個回覆那首先是針對委員對我提到就是說針對那個我們排名下降的部分排名下降的部分其實我們都有去做一個分析針對島澤奧運大學以及我們有一個叫做"},{"start":6394.418,"end":6417.394,"text":"那個Oxford的一個評評其實還有下降那我們下降原因我們去分析大概就是人才的部分然後還有這個入口網的部分以及法規的部分那這個法規部分的話也謝謝大院這邊在去年底有通過這個AI基本法還有一些相關的法律所以這個部分應該會提升那我們自己針對入口網這個部分以及我們的人才培育的部分包括跟"},{"start":6417.796,"end":6439.554,"text":"人種這邊合作還有我們部長這邊也非常的重視我們入口網這邊的一個人身事件的服務的一個項目的一個包括項目的項目以及他怎麼樣子可以讓民眾更容易的去使用這個我們都有持續的來做一個深入的檢討那這個我們會提書面報告跟委員做一個回覆那針對剛才"},{"start":6442.011,"end":6448.25,"text":"我也有特別提到像這個第44案這邊我們民生系統的一個精進的回復計畫那這個計畫的部分"},{"start":6450.182,"end":6470.921,"text":"我們包括在之前這個在兩年前就已經開始了包括盤點怎麼盤點這些的哪些的服務是應該要上雲端備份哪些的包括這些服務然後以及他跟這個機關去做一些討論還要教他們怎麼去做一些雲端備份的一個做法跟一個演練這些都已經做完了"},{"start":6472.25,"end":6500.638,"text":"但是這個雲端備份除了備份之外還有另外一個就是說在發生重大災難的時候應該有一些這些關鍵系統的一些核心功能應該在雲端上面而不是用地端的一個系統來做運作所以剛才委員提到兩部分就是備份的部分其實都已經做完然後已經有研練了但是那個核心系統的一個在雲端建置的部分是今年底會完成所以剛才委員就有提到說怎麼會有兩部分其實是這樣子一個狀況所以我們今年底這些的核心功能的一個"},{"start":6501.278,"end":6520.443,"text":"建制完成之後我們也會持續來做一個延練那這是第一個部分那第二個就是在於47案這邊我們有提到一樣就是這個關鍵民生系統的這個部分那我剛有提到那以及我們這邊也有提到一個踢落的導入那我們這邊包括踢落我們現在"},{"start":6521.523,"end":6541.659,"text":"包括這個A級機關以及一些縣市都已經有導入T-LORD我們T-LORD的導入我們也是積極的去請各機關持續的去導入包括我們會提供免費的模組讓機關如果他想導入的話他不用自己再建那些導入的模組我們就直接那個模組就給他們去使用"},{"start":6542.74,"end":6556.076,"text":"他怎麼去把他內部接上這個梯絡這個我們都會做一些教育訓練而且直接去教他們怎麼去用這個是我們會這個持續的來做一個這個提供他們來做一個這個協助"},{"start":6558.297,"end":6582.014,"text":"然後那個針對跟其他的其他的這個機關的一個連動性的部分那因為TO本身他就是在做一個跨機關的一個資料的交換所以包括資料他怎麼樣子去做一個API的方式或者說是這些其他機關怎麼樣子能夠用另外一個機關的資料或另外一個機關的API在行政的機制上面這個我們都已經有非常完整一個機制"},{"start":6584.69,"end":6601.742,"text":"好那針對於這個後面因為有些是有比較相近我就跳過去那針對於我們我一政府這邊的一個上架樹那剛才也有提到然後好"},{"start":6606.803,"end":6625.215,"text":"好然後針對第56案這邊開始就是有革新政府網路架構跟提升雲端服務這個計畫那這個計畫它本身它是在做政府機關之間就是跨機關之間它的資料交易它不是在做外部的一個這個網路的服務所以"},{"start":6628.337,"end":6652.539,"text":"這個預算就是像剛才那個什麼那個我們跨機關之間如果他需要做一個一站式的服務的時候必須要其他機關資料他是透過這個計畫來我們幫他做一個基礎的建設讓他們可以去在這個基礎建設上面去做一個跨機關的一個資料傳輸所以委員這邊有提到說那可能在一些不管是在網路平台或者說是這個一些深圍基礎等下我們"},{"start":6654.2,"end":6683.152,"text":"這個策略是這邊會說明但是因為這個計畫他本身不是做這件事情而且他是做跨機關的這個內部資料傳輸這個比較重要所以也希望說委員這邊可以同意不要簡列因為這個是一個比較基礎的一個建設然後另外對於第57案這邊也提到這個數位人才的部分當然數位人才有兩個困境一個就是說他的薪資好"},{"start":6684.517,"end":6697.59,"text":"他薪資比較低的部分這個是人種這邊已經有在處理那我們是針對他們的那個能力的部分去做一個提升而且可以接接到我們民間的一個能力的一個這個謝謝"},{"start":6703.925,"end":6724.787,"text":"好我們針對於AI的部分大概總召剛剛有提到AI的部分AI基本法大概今年1月就公布蘇發部大概負責四個大概是AI風險分類框架跟數位政府的AI的管理以及AI的評測跟資料創新利用法案條例這個部分謝謝委員的"},{"start":6727.03,"end":6735.205,"text":"紙價以及預算的支持我們未來大概今年度都會按照這個AI基本法的架構我們要去陸續去推動那以上"},{"start":6737.711,"end":6762.541,"text":"好那各位有的问题他们都有回应到我们先OK好好那么来处理看看这部分了这个是这五书业务总共是11亿6454万9千元那总共分三节我想因为这个三节的部分集中在第二节好那我们在第一节跟第三节部分这样了我们第一节冻结1000万然后一个月内提书面报告"},{"start":6764.482,"end":6793.514,"text":"第三节一亿零四一亿零四百八十六万四千部分我们的冻结一千万一样一个月内提出的报告那第二节的部分生化政府自通讯应用建设五亿零六百八十万八千元这部分这部分比较多的委员有比较多冻比较多删减案那刚刚的讨论也很多在这部分哦那我们这部分的话就删减一千万然后科目资金调整"},{"start":6795.299,"end":6800.084,"text":"52、54改組決議剛剛的45萬也改組決議然後第二節的部分一樣是動機10%然後提出一個月內提出書面報告時的動機我們這樣處理各位有沒有意見"},{"start":6816.26,"end":6844.093,"text":"好可以好所以速發部好可以吼好那就這樣我在宣告一次我們在這個部分政府數位業務11億6454萬9000元的部分在第一節健全政府數位服務基礎環境及人力賠利凍結1000萬一個月內提速配報告時的動之第二節深化政府資通訊應用建設刪除1000萬科目自行調整其餘部分凍結10%"},{"start":6846.499,"end":6865.892,"text":"一个月内提书面报告使得动之第三节促进资料多元创新应用冻结1000万一个月内提书面报告使得动之那在提案45 52跟54案改成主决议好接下来除以63到77案的决议案好从63案开始"},{"start":6877.097,"end":6893.845,"text":"來六十三案那個報告主席那個六十四案那個委員已經同意那個修正文字好我們就照書面資料修正通過來六十四案六十四案那個遵照辦理"},{"start":6895.539,"end":6907.861,"text":"65案65案遵照辦理66案66案遵照辦理67案67案遵照辦理68案68案遵照辦理69案69案遵照辦理70案遵照辦理71案71案遵照辦理72案72案遵照辦理來73案"},{"start":6924.465,"end":6936.733,"text":"七十三案那個我們已經跟委員報告過了就是書面報告改成報告改成書面報告好修正通過來七十四案"},{"start":6938.41,"end":6962.714,"text":"74案我們跟委員報那個報告就是一個月改成三個月他提中案報告改書面報告好修正通過來75案75案遵照辦理76案遵照辦理77案遵照辦理好那我們在115年度總預算案數位發展不當預算部分審查完畢我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":6975.502,"end":6975.542,"text":"越講越慘"},{"start":6994.343,"end":6999.988,"text":"他说没有人可以不可以不可以不可以不可以不可以不可以"},{"start":7018.46,"end":7030.03,"text":"那電腦跟這個都未能嗎?那我可能需要,那我查一下,電腦也查一下,手機也查一下。對阿,那你先說一下。那邊有,有檔案嗎?那邊有檔案嗎?那邊有檔案嗎?那邊有檔案嗎?"},{"start":7044.243,"end":7051.028,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的餐廳。這間餐廳有很多不同的食物。"},{"start":7065.72,"end":7066.241,"text":"謝謝觀看,下次見"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":247.93,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_01","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":106.48,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_02","speaker":"SPEAKER_22","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":116.54,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_03","speaker":"SPEAKER_23","embedding":"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