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委員嚴匡衡等18人"},{"start":1832.208,"end":1858.176,"text":"委員王振旭等18人委員謝龍介等16人委員廖偉祥等16人委員賴世寶等18人委員徐宇珍等19人委員翁曉琳等28人委員林倩琪等20人委員邱振軍等17人委員洪孟楷等21人委員羅志強等19人委員賴世寶等25人委員郭國文等19人分別擬據所得稅法第17條條文修正草案等24案"},{"start":1859.216,"end":1880.593,"text":"三本院委員蔡春籌等18人擬拒所得稅法第17條及第126條條文修正草案案經財政部部長莊翠雲回應黨團及委員提案後暨由委員林德福等13人提出質詢均經財政部部長莊翠雲及相關人員予以答覆決議一說明及詢答完畢二委員詢"},{"start":1881.854,"end":1905.644,"text":"質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其鎖定三位委員羅明才、鍾嘉斌所提書面質詢列入記錄、刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆四、所得稅法等二十八案均另則其繼續審查一百十五年六月十七日討論事項繼續審查中華民國一百十五年"},{"start":1906.204,"end":1932.161,"text":"中央政府总预算案附属单位预算营业部分关于财政部主管中国苏出入银行台湾金融控股股份有限公司韩台湾银行股份有限公司台银人寿保险股份有限公司台银综合证券股份有限公司决议审查结果以财政部主管通过决议一项依中国苏出入银行依业务计划应依据营业收支金融保险成本"},{"start":1933.602,"end":1961.488,"text":"轉投資重大資建設事業及資金運用等項資審查結果隨同調整二營業收支一營業總收入七十七億八千八百九十三萬元照列二營業總支出不含所得稅費用簡列一營業成本向下金融保險成本支透過損益按供應價值衡量支金融負債損失一千七百五十萬元二營業費用二百五十萬元含業務費用向下服務費用二百萬元"},{"start":1962.708,"end":1975.036,"text":"管理費用50萬元科目均自行調整以上工具檢列2000萬元其餘均照列改列為60億2886萬7000元3.稅前經歷增列2000萬元改列為17億606萬3000元3.金融保險成本一頁總支出因隨同調整4.轉投資計劃五列數5.中大制建設事業4700"},{"start":1989.244,"end":2012.247,"text":"四千一百七十六万二千元照列六资金运用因依据营业收支金融保险成本盈亏拨补转投资及重大之建设事业等项之审查结果随同调整七国库现金增资二十亿元照列八通过决议三项二台湾金融控股股份有限公司含台湾银行台银人寿保险"},{"start":2013.53,"end":2022.198,"text":"台銀綜合證券公司依業務計劃因依據營業收支金融保險成本轉投資重大之建設事業及資金運用等向之審查結果隨同調整"},{"start":2025.529,"end":2042.064,"text":"2.營業收支,營業總收入,增列營業收入6億4,990萬元,含台灣銀行銷售收入6億元,台銀綜合證券金融保險收入向下,證券經濟集成銷售入4,990萬元,其餘均照列改列為3,736億6,816萬1千元。"},{"start":2046.187,"end":2070.496,"text":"二 營業總支出不含所得稅費用 檢列一 臺灣銀行服務費用五十萬元 科目資金調整二 營業成本一億九千二百九十萬元一 臺灣銀行 A 配合營業收入增列 隨同調整銷售成本向下銷貨成本五億九千七百四十八萬元B 檢列金融保險成本向下利息費用五億九千零四十八萬元"},{"start":2071.596,"end":2075.347,"text":"二 台銀年售保險 簡列金融保險成本之保險財務費用1億9990萬元"},{"start":2082.99,"end":2105.567,"text":"三 營業費用620萬元一 臺灣金融控股管理費用50萬元 科目自行調整二 臺銀臺灣銀行550萬元 含管理費用500萬元其他營業費用50萬元 科目均自行調整三 臺銀人壽保險管理費用10萬元 科目自行調整四 臺銀綜合證券管理費用10萬元 科目自行調整"},{"start":2107.546,"end":2135.636,"text":"四 營業外費用一億五千零五十萬元含臺灣金融控股財務成本向下利息費用一億四千九百五十萬元臺灣銀行其他營業外費用向下十項費用中其他之其他費用一百萬元以上增減戶底後公計減列三億五千零一十萬元其餘均照列改列為三千五百五十三億八千一百二十八萬九千元三 稅前淨利增列十億元"},{"start":2136.576,"end":2141.681,"text":"改列為182億8687萬2千元三經營保險成本營業總支出因隨同調整四轉投資計劃五列數五中大制建設事業40億9645萬5千元照列六資金運用減列長期債務15億元增加利用營餘作為部分財務操作資金來源"},{"start":2159.179,"end":2183.399,"text":"並因依據營業收支 金融保險成本 盈虧補補轉投資及中大之建設事業等項之審查結果 隨同調整七 補辦預算 增加固定資產之建設改良擴充一億五千七百一十九萬元及收回轉投資資金五千萬元 照列八 通過決議十四項 宣讀完畢在場委員會主法定人數 議事錄暫不確定 請議事人宣讀經濟議程"},{"start":2187.165,"end":2212.174,"text":"一會總整理提出中華民國一百十五年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告公務預算部分草案提報院會案二會總整理提出中華民國一百十五年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告草案提報院會案三審查本院委員吳秉瑞等二十人拟據會計司法部分條文修正草案案詢答及處理"},{"start":2212.974,"end":2217.395,"text":"請問在場委員對於上次的議事錄有沒有意義沒有意義議事錄確定現在議事人員現在要先原力介紹在場委員"},{"start":2244.059,"end":2270.276,"text":"李坤成委員林德福委員與會政府官員金融監督管理委員會彭金榮主任委員法律事務處林志憲處長銀行局童振章局長證券期貨局高金平局長保險局王立慧局長"},{"start":2272.023,"end":2300.111,"text":"檢察局賴新國局長證券交易所股份有現公司李愛玲總經理財端法人中華民國證券櫃台買賣中心簡立中董事長陳立青總經理財政部陳永勝政務次長法治處姚迎處長國庫署林秀燕副署長"},{"start":2302.078,"end":2327.946,"text":"複稅署李志忠副署長官路署蘇淑珍副署長國有財政署郭曉榮副署長財政資料中心李素蘭副主任權序部法規司蕭立榮專門委員內政部合作及人民團體司詹娟娟司長法務部廖江縣參事以上"},{"start":2333.154,"end":2361.133,"text":"今日議程安排一會總整理提出中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告公務預算部分草案提報院會二會總整理提出中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告草案提報院會案三審查本院委員吳秉岳等20人你去會計司法修正條文修正草案案"},{"start":2361.813,"end":2389.72,"text":"第四審查本院委員吳秉慧等21人委員李燕秀等18人分別理據證券交易稅條例第二條之一條文修正草案等二案先進行中央民國115年度中央政府總預算公務預算部分附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告草案提報院會等二案現在請議事人員宣讀審查總報告草案內容"},{"start":2391.161,"end":2412.015,"text":"宣讀中華民國一百十五年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告草案審查經過及總結果本案經本院財政委員會將一百十五年度中央政府總預算案含附屬單位預算及中繼表營業及非營業部分依分配表及日程分送各委員會審查並由各委員會之召集委員擔任主席"},{"start":2412.555,"end":2425.62,"text":"含請各有關機關首長列席說明、答覆委員質詢及提供宿命資料本案經各委員會審查結果內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會其115年6月29日"},{"start":2429.602,"end":2453.68,"text":"尚未將公務預算部分審查報告送財政委員會至未即列入審查總報告外財政司法及法治委員會已提出公務預算部分審查報告由財政委員會綜合整理並於7月1日舉行第20次全體委員會議討論後完成公務預算部分審查總報告審查結果如下一 收入部分審查結果 增列5,991億1千萬元 相鑒表六期"},{"start":2457.282,"end":2473.376,"text":"資因115年度中央政府總預算案先行審議單位預算其涉及附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分之營業營餘及失業收入均佔照列次附屬單位預算審議確定後再行調整稅入總額佔照列為3,4613億6,319萬1千元市議院會審議通過後再由行政院主席總署依照各款項目"},{"start":2482.423,"end":2511.085,"text":"分別調整紀列二 稅出部分審查結果共計減列五十億七千三百二十八萬元 詳件表六八自因一百十五年度中央政府總預算案先行審議單位預算其涉及附屬單位預算營業及分營業部分之國庫增撥額等均佔照列四 附屬單位預算審議確定後再行調整稅出總額佔改列為三兆零二百九十九億零一百零九萬一千元"},{"start":2511.886,"end":2521.989,"text":"四 院會審議通過後再由行政院主計總署依照各款項目分別調整系列三 融資財源調度部分編列債務值償還1265億元加計稅率稅數相抵短處後上區融資調度數2999"},{"start":2530.891,"end":2548.131,"text":"二千九百九十二億二千一百一十八萬元以舉借債務之印均佔照列四總預算案稅入稅出審議結果再行調整四一百十五年度中央政府總預算案審查結果稅入稅出總額如有差短及經常收支如有不平衡時"},{"start":2550.995,"end":2564.715,"text":"5.115年度中央政府總預算案先行審議單位預算其涉及附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分均佔照列4.附屬單位預算審議確定後再行調整6.115年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":2565.476,"end":2591.955,"text":"稅出正式別部分 隨同稅出機關別審查結果予以調整請委員參閱部分 依審查緣起 審查經過及總結果等說明第一至二十五頁 二個委員會審查結果第二十七至四百四十九頁 其中財政委員會司法及法治委員會已審訊分別為第四十三至二百二十四頁 第二百三十五至四百四十三頁"},{"start":2593.636,"end":2621.586,"text":"接續宣讀附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告草案審查經過及總結果本案財政委員會與各委員會依照中華民國115年中央政府總預算案含附屬單位預算及中繼表營業及非營業部分審查分配表及審查日程自115年4月22日起分別舉行會議審查為截至6月26日止上有內政、外交及國防、經濟、財政、教育及文化"},{"start":2622.426,"end":2642.944,"text":"交通社會福利及衛生環境委員會 尚未將審查報告送達至未集會整列入本次審查總報告中司法及法治委員會已提出之審查報告 由財政委員會會總整理於7月1日舉行第20次全體委員會議討論後 完成審查總報告 審查結果如下"},{"start":2644.405,"end":2665.844,"text":"一營業部分尚無審查結果想表3至於所得稅費用及盈虧撥補事項是院會審議確定後再由行政院依法核算及分配各單位有關之業務計劃轉投資重大建設資金運用及資產負債預計等部分應分別依本案審定數額予以調整二非營業部分"},{"start":2667.759,"end":2688.88,"text":"一作業基金司法及法治委員會審查結果增列業務總收入五百萬元增列業務總支出四百五十萬元增列本期剩餘五十萬元想表四五至於予出博補事項司院會審議確定後再由行政院依法核算及分配各單位有關之業務計劃轉投資固定資產資建設改良擴充國庫增撥基金額"},{"start":2693.755,"end":2713.012,"text":"及資金運用等部分應分別依本案審定數額予以調整二 債務基金尚無審查結果 享表六三 特別收入基金司法及法治委員會審查結果均照列 享表六至於各單位制業務計畫及資金運用等部分應分別依本案審定數額予以調整"},{"start":2714.233,"end":2727.687,"text":"資金計劃基金尚無審查結果 想表六信託基金部分司法及法治委員會審查結果均照列 想表七勤委員參閱部分依審查總說明第一至十九頁"},{"start":2728.968,"end":2745.458,"text":"二營業部分第21至25頁三非營業部分第27至50頁司法及法治委員會審查結果第47至48頁四信託基金部分第51至61頁司法及法治委員會審查結果第59頁宣讀完畢"},{"start":2750.39,"end":2763.071,"text":"請問各位委員 針對中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案公務預算部分附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告草案有無異議無異議通過"},{"start":2766.056,"end":2782.386,"text":"6 針對中華民國115年度中央政府總預算公務預算部分附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告草案做如下決議1 中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告照草案通過提報院會討論虛擋團協商並請議事人員盡速提報院會討論有關內政外交及國防經濟教育及文化交通"},{"start":2793.553,"end":2813.884,"text":"社會福利及衛生環境等六委員會之審查報告是送達本委員會後請醫事人員會總整理並寄予提報院會併案討論二中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告照草案通過提報院會討論需黨團協商並請醫事人員進速提報院會討論有關內政外交及國防經濟"},{"start":2822.889,"end":2833.939,"text":"財政、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境等七委員會的審查報告是送達本委員會後請議事人員會總整理並進入提報院會並按討論"},{"start":2840.115,"end":2857.346,"text":"現在就討論四項審查會計司法部分條文修正草案證件交易稅條例第二條之一條文修正草案先請提案委員說明提案要之後再請金管會彭主委財政部陳正智回應委員提案現在首先由我來說明"},{"start":2862.881,"end":2879.968,"text":"會計司法的修正查案說明因應永續資訊確信案件之多元化與跨領域反映會計司事務所實務運作需求增訂由全聯會擬定助理人員資格並報警署管機關核定以兼顧專業彈性及監理"},{"start":2882.045,"end":2907.448,"text":"以自信這是修正條文第18條再來考量遺產管理人的職務並與財務相關屬會計師之專業且會計師現行執行之業務以包括遺組執行人為利社會大眾識別專業服務明確利是會計師得擔任遺產管理人修正條文的第39條第三在兼顧利益衝突與專業獨立性之前提適度放工會計師兼任公營事業"},{"start":2908.709,"end":2922.253,"text":"董事或監察人之限制並維持不得擔任涉及主要經營決策職務之原則以兼顧公營事業治理效能與專業倫理要求這是修正條文第44條第4 依人民團體法規定"},{"start":2925.634,"end":2942.782,"text":"職業團體會員大會委託代理出席制度設有比例限制威力各會計師公會依實務需求彈性運作原真定允許公路與章程中明定公平合理制委託出席計算方式維持會議秩序 兼顧行政效率及資源節約 這是修正條件第54條"},{"start":2946.089,"end":2967.838,"text":"再來進行證券交易稅條例第二條之一的修正條文說明政府為活絡債券市場協助企業投資及促進資本市場發展自民國99年起停徵公司債金及金融債券之證券交易稅後續會配合新型態投資商品及市場發展於106年進一步停徵交易"},{"start":2968.678,"end":2990.887,"text":"所債券指數型股票基金是證券交易稅並已成為民眾投資重要選擇有效推動資本市場發展應停徵證交稅優惠措施將於115年年底到期為維持初期市場發展原修法再延長10年停徵期是修正條文第二條之一"},{"start":2993.803,"end":3004.009,"text":"以上是本席的提案說明再請李燕秀委員提案說明李燕秀委員不在再請金管會彭金榮主委回應委員提案內容"},{"start":3014.011,"end":3040.739,"text":"主席各位委員媒體先進大家早今天貴委員會審查委員吳秉瑞等20人擬據之會計司法部分條文修正草案委員吳秉瑞等21人及委員李燕秀等18人分別擬據證券交易稅條例第二條之一條文修正草案陳貴委員會邀請提出報告請提出以下意見有關會計司法部分條文計修正四條一"},{"start":3041.539,"end":3051.923,"text":"增訂永續資訊確信助理人員資格本次修正增訂由中華民國會計師公會全國聯合會擬定永續資訊簽證工作之助理人員資格並報請主管機關核定尚服實務需求"},{"start":3058.106,"end":3086.784,"text":"二 明定會計師得擔任遺產管理人本次修正會計師業務範圍明定得擔任遺產管理人與現行實務尚屬一致三 適度放寬會計師得兼任公營事業董監事細參考公務員服務法第26條規定適度放寬會計師得兼任未受有諷刺且未擔任對經營政策負有主要決策責任之董事監察人儘管會尊重委員提案修正條文四 增訂"},{"start":3088.225,"end":3104.231,"text":"會員大會委託初期之比率及有效委託之計算方式本次修正增訂工會得於章程另訂有效委託初期之計算方式上符實務需求有關證券交易稅條例第二條之一條文修正草案部分"},{"start":3105.312,"end":3118.334,"text":"現行停徵證券交易稅制度有利於資本市場配置及長期穩定發展除可提升債券市場流動性與籌資效率並可促進資金留在國內二有關被動式債券ETF"},{"start":3119.741,"end":3126.664,"text":"106-113年暫停課徵債券ETF證券交易稅期間整體淨稅收增加約549億餘元顯示停徵證交稅有利我國債券ETF市場發展及整體稅收增長"},{"start":3135.228,"end":3152.173,"text":"二將債券型主動式交易所交易基金納入暫停增範圍之必要性主動式債券ETF與被動式債券ETF同為交易所交易基金商品均以債券為主要投資標的商品性質相似"},{"start":3152.993,"end":3180.516,"text":"為兼顧政策公平性及自信建議將主動式債券ETF一併納入暫停課徵證券交易所適用範圍終上本次委員提案修正會計司法部分符合實務需求儘管會尊重委員提案自有關本次委員提案修正證券交易稅條例等兩案仍請各位委員會支持未來行政院函請審議之證券交易稅條例修正草案以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":3183.081,"end":3187.998,"text":"謝謝彭主委再來請財政部陳永勝次長回應委員提案內容"},{"start":3201.488,"end":3222.287,"text":"主席各位委員以及媒體先進大家早安大家好今日貴委會審查大院委員分別凝聚了證券交易稅條例第二條之一的修正草案等兩案本部簡要說明如下吳昭偉秉瑞等21人及李昭偉燕秀等18人分別"},{"start":3223.587,"end":3242.582,"text":"继续延长停征公司债金融债及以债券为主要投资标的之上市级上柜的一个指数股票型基金以及所谓的被动式的一个债券ETF受益凭证之证券交易税实施期间10年至125年12月31日"},{"start":3246.725,"end":3270.556,"text":"並將債券主動式交易所交易的一個基金即所謂的主動式債券的一個EDF受益憑證納入暫停的一個範圍即刪除被動式債券的EDF投資標的一個限制之相關規定鑒於本措施將於本年的12月31號來接起為了促進債券市場長期穩健的發展持續活絡"},{"start":3274.653,"end":3288.962,"text":"我國債券市場跟債券的ETF市場並兼顧政策的一個公平性金融監督管理委員會頁一納稅者權益保護法的第六條以及財政紀律法第六條規定舉辦公聽會並提出"},{"start":3292.788,"end":3313.744,"text":"稅事支出的一個評估報告本部將進速來辦理扶貧的一個跟後續的修法作業並呈報行政院審查通過後核轉大院來審議建請大院支持提案能與行政院版本並按審議以上說明敬請各位指教謝謝謝謝次長"},{"start":3316.668,"end":3339.778,"text":"現在開始詢答先做以下宣告每位初期委員發言時間8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間4分鐘今日上午10點截止發言登記本次會議委員若有會計司法修正動議請進送主席台必便議事人員整理現在一登記順序請登記第一位林德福委員諮詢"},{"start":3357.758,"end":3359.881,"text":"謝謝主席請金管會彭主委"},{"start":3373.442,"end":3396.799,"text":"委員長安 主委長我請教針對2026年國泰釋法董事長郭明健兼職事件引發外界的關注整個公司的治理以及利益衝突的問題並造成整個國泰投信相關的損失那社會上也議論混溫"},{"start":3398.76,"end":3413.424,"text":"那這也是為什麼事件發生後外界都希望金管會啊能做好把關而且維護投資人權益以健全整個金融的秩序那我請問這個"},{"start":3415.365,"end":3431.557,"text":"彭主委從本案來看近期軍管會是否也會全面來清查其他軍控單位兼職的整個情況來揭露整個資訊以及利益衝突整個管理的機制"},{"start":3432.197,"end":3452.887,"text":"來那個彭主委謝謝委員我想這個我也很關心我想今天在國會這邊我們希望針對製作來討論我們盡量不要針對個案來說明那我想剛剛委員提到一個是非常非常重要的就是我們在管理這個市場的時候那當然一個事件發生以後我們當然就必須要好好的檢視這個過程"},{"start":3454.628,"end":3460.835,"text":"我想外界對金管會也要求很高那期待也很高我們也責無旁貸我們也會來虛心檢討剛剛我也提到就是說"},{"start":3463.308,"end":3485.888,"text":"那有幾件事情外界可能有很大的誤解比如說很多人在說我們一月底的時候就重大偶發通報為什麼到六月才精簡我想這裡面重大偶發通報有很多的重要概念比如說它是一個重大是具有重大影響性的偶發它是一個突發的事件必須要它有時效性再來通報它是主動的"},{"start":3486.849,"end":3502.466,"text":"我想這裡面呢 因為是偶發 很多的內容不是很清楚所以我們在過程當中 必須有很多的時間要跟進行了解 收集資訊以及跟請我們通報的金融機構做一些資訊分享"},{"start":3504.068,"end":3516.999,"text":"我想這個中間會有很多很多的溝通但外界就只以說以最後一個時間就來說今晚會沒有做什麼事我想這應該是非常不符合實際就以本案而言其實我們過去有"},{"start":3519.365,"end":3531.797,"text":"對這樣一個金融機構發生這個事情我們至少有三次以上我們進行資料的就是通知他們要補充資料我們有三次約詢他們的人員到會來說明以及維護"},{"start":3536.661,"end":3551.048,"text":"這個投資人的權益還有像比如說我們有正式發函兩次來處理這件事情那當然有必要的時候呢我們就進行精檢我想這個是一個整個過程我想剛剛委員提到兩個我覺得有幾件事情我們必須要好好來檢視的就是說"},{"start":3552.969,"end":3571.715,"text":"剛剛委員提到我們整個內部控制集合制度那其實他確實沒有錯這個規定都非常的明確為什麼沒有落實執行這件事情我們要好好來檢討這部分那再來有關兼職的部分我們現在呢也定在我們的負責人資格條件與兼職辦法三之二條非常清楚"},{"start":3572.956,"end":3590.272,"text":"這個堅持必須要不要妨礙到公司的經營然後再來就是我們要公司要定期的檢視我們也發函請銀行公會也要求他們要落實這樣那當然未來該做什麼檢討我們會不會迴避我們會該檢討就檢討我希望那個彭主委"},{"start":3590.652,"end":3607.344,"text":"未來將如何來加強跨機構的監理以避免類似的事件再次的發生對於整個金融控股的這些集團高層兼職的範圍是我有進一步修正跟強化的措施我認為這個很重要"},{"start":3609.105,"end":3624.643,"text":"其實委員這個這提點是對的就是因為我們過去對於這個我剛才講過我們對那個兼職的個數還有兼職的情形我們是一開始定在就是公司在在面對你的負責人的時候就必須要先確保"},{"start":3625.824,"end":3651.861,"text":"這個東西要能夠符合公司的他的所謂的職能的發揮再來還要定期的檢視是否是否能夠符合公司還有沒有利益衝突的問題我想法規很明確那當然這裡外界很期待就是說我們需不需要有做進一步的檢視這我們會來檢視這一部分我希望在這方面那個主委啊你要多去加強那不要再類似案件又繼續發生那當然當然那個"},{"start":3654.198,"end":3669.507,"text":"近年在宅的醫療以門診手術日益的普及越來越多民眾不需要接受住院的治療及可緩假休養然而部分的保護就是保險的這些人反應"},{"start":3673.831,"end":3700.274,"text":"因原先投保的保單條款能以住院為主要理賠的要件導致接受在宅就在家裡醫療或門診手術後面臨理賠的認定不一致甚至於拒絕理賠引發爭議民眾為了理賠要求住院切可能浪費醫療資源那本席是希望軍管會"},{"start":3701.295,"end":3720.726,"text":"你能夠督導保險業者在兼顧保護的權益跟保險精算的風險下能夠彈性的來理賠以促進醫療資源有效的運用那主委啊在保險業者言商跟保險業者言商後是否將檢討現行保單理賠的認定標準一"},{"start":3724.948,"end":3743.882,"text":"時期更符合整個醫療發展的趨勢剛剛謝謝委員剛剛委員提到那個我也非常認同委員的看法畢竟我們很多的醫療保單可能都十幾二十年前簽訂的那整個醫療環境醫療技術跟醫療成本都有很大的不同"},{"start":3744.744,"end":3760.629,"text":"那我想在過去呢金管會保險局也非常關心這個議題我們也非常多次的機會跟業者跟衛福部進行這樣一個溝通我們希望能夠找到一個好的方向因為這有兩個很重要的原則必須要兼顧一個就是我們商業保險的對價橫貧原則"},{"start":3762.27,"end":3778.68,"text":"那再來就是一個我們客戶購買一張保單的公平合理原則所以就剛剛委員提到就像我們在有些疾病過去可能都是一定要住院的後來改成因為我們的醫療環境整個改變而不用住院最典型就是像白內障手術"},{"start":3779.76,"end":3802.177,"text":"這部分即便條文規定要住院我們也都用融通的方式給予理賠但是這一部分還有什麼類似像這樣的話我們也正在跟衛福部協商看有沒有什麼類似這樣的一個我們有共識的部分因為醫療進步了那符合公平合理原則我們來公平合理這個客戶的投保的權益"},{"start":3802.958,"end":3826.007,"text":"那至於說其他很多的這些比如說未來的在宅醫療或是一日住院我們都跟衛福部跟業者在密切的協商希望能夠儘早尋求到一個大家能夠有共識的解決主委啊因為我認為說整個你過去的保險跟現在時空環境不一樣要與時俱進"},{"start":3828.268,"end":3851.539,"text":"你不要停留在過去會得怎麼樣在宅醫療的保單未來是否是醫療保險的主流商品現在的話因為現在主要是因為這是新的東西商品的設計商業保險商品設計一定要有一些所謂的這個發聲率或這些資料所以我們也跟衛福部合作現在已經有保險公司在試辦在送件試辦這樣的產品"},{"start":3852.659,"end":3871.95,"text":"我希望就是儘管會在這方面多去琢磨多用一點心讓這些保護能夠得到相對的保障這個很重要主委因為受到AI半導體產業的需求台股指數上半年從1月2日29349點到6月底46125點"},{"start":3880.116,"end":3887.97,"text":"這個漲勢非常的驚人證交稅貢獻國庫也不少許多專家都認為說台股有機會看上五萬點但"},{"start":3890.168,"end":3909.82,"text":"在此時我們也可以在市場上看到越來越多專家或機構來提醒例如整個國際清算銀行BIS警告人工智慧AI產業存在泡沫的收場的有那種可能性全球金融市場以經濟"},{"start":3911.641,"end":3935.337,"text":"這個都會被拖下水展望下半年啦除了美伊的談判美國跟伊朗的談判美國原準會升息與火美國其中的選舉等三大的風險可能會影響全球股市經濟外我請問主委還有可能在哪些國際金融風險或黑天鵝需要我們去關注"},{"start":3936.193,"end":3958.828,"text":"謝謝委員我想在很多次委員都非常關心這個議題那我想我們在很多場合也說因為資本市場特別是股市啊本來就是它充滿了很多的不確定性所以我們在很多的地方也我們在每次的在委員會都有提到我們要謹慎投資注意風險管理我想剛才我們也在多次提到不管是以台灣的現在的狀況地緣政治國際經濟還有像我們這些產業的發展這個都是我們必須關注的議題"},{"start":3964.889,"end":3976.643,"text":"好那個我請財政部那個陳次長最後一題陳次長來次長財政部啊整個五月"},{"start":3978.415,"end":3984.099,"text":"這個公布5月的總稅收5770億元5770那年增率是84%其中證交稅5月就收入704億元連3月連續3月創單月的新高先前審查財政部115年度稅錄部分時經過財委會協商後將稅"},{"start":4005.444,"end":4015.479,"text":"稅客收入增列為六千億元那稅收增加的六千億元就財政部所知行政院未來會如何規劃你認為呢"},{"start":4018.237,"end":4038.762,"text":"好 謝謝召委 謝謝連委員的一個指教我想貴委員會上次增加的6000億的部分我想從原來我們編列的預算案裡面其實本來的一個收支差短大概有1656億左右那至於說所謂的一個按照公共債務法要"},{"start":4039.882,"end":4052.594,"text":"還本的大概1200億左右兩個加起來接近大概3000億左右所以說先還舉債是不是所以兩個3000億造成說我們今年就不需要再舉借了那其他的部分你像會不會撥補中油台電這些虧損會不會"},{"start":4054.363,"end":4073.171,"text":"我想這個部分我們稅計剩餘每年度的收支的我剛剛提到的我們不用舉借了之外未來我們這個收支有剩餘的時候我們要經過審計部的一個審核核定之後我們到了年度的結束的時候會累積剩餘這個累積剩餘就要未來"},{"start":4073.911,"end":4100.37,"text":"我們就看看 因為這個還是要經過大院的一個決議 未來怎麼運用那先規劃 舉債先還我認同因為你不能一直舉債啊 對不對那你這個債台高築 債留子孫啦我們希望都舉債優先 接下來你還要有一些計畫未來這些有這麼多的稅收 收入等於是我們多收的那你要有一些規劃"},{"start":4101.72,"end":4109.323,"text":"謝謝林委員 我們會朝著健全財政的方向來處理好不好 謝謝下一位諮詢委員 請賴世保委員諮詢謝謝主席 各位先進有請金管會的彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":4132.13,"end":4148.701,"text":"委員早安所以你剛才面對其他委員的時候講說我們不要討論個案我也同意不要討論個案可是現在國泰金所引起的他跟投信他的投信的問題所引起的是全面"},{"start":4149.702,"end":4166.669,"text":"前面就是說其他的監控底下投信或者投信only有沒有這個問題就是即使資訊串流漏了他不知道你們也不知道所以這個我的標題叫什麼叫你們監理擺爛"},{"start":4169.21,"end":4187.114,"text":"然後治理司令 公司的治理司令他一個頭信 他自己的董監有沒有監職 怎麼會不知道呢監控底下 監控怎麼會不知道呢這裡面一個不可思議 就是這裡面已經有監控跟指控是有八個資訊的斷線"},{"start":4190.46,"end":4206.488,"text":"我實在沒有辦法想像說這麼大的一個group然後他們之間的資訊流會這麼的weak說居然會漏掉說某一個董事然後在裡面按照規定你當然投薪不可以買他的"},{"start":4207.448,"end":4227.366,"text":"買他這個所當讀懂也好啦 堅持什麼東西 那個公司的股票大家都了解怎麼可以進出呢所以造成 這個細節我就不要在這裡講了你說這個是個別資訊造成的投資者的損失啊因為你中間的miscommunication"},{"start":4229.846,"end":4245.038,"text":"斷訊造成我投資者的損失 照理講沒有損失啊 只有你這樣子強迫後來發現的 強迫即便是虧本了他也賣這個都讓投資人莫大的一個損失我就請問你 你剛剛說三次介入是不是"},{"start":4245.762,"end":4259.614,"text":"沒有 我跟委員講 委員那個標題我想修正一下監理沒有擺爛 治理確實失靈所以是公司不好 你做得很好啦事實上你不好啦 你怎麼讓它發生呢請問這事情發生多久"},{"start":4260.475,"end":4277.577,"text":"我想跟委員報告我們不是在爭議我剛才跟前委員說明的意思就是說監理有它一定的程序跟步驟這因為攸關到事實的釐清你什麼時候要記錄你告訴我什麼時候開始記錄我們我剛才提到我們的重大偶發通報"},{"start":4279.459,"end":4305.693,"text":"這個他通常重大偶發那偶發就是很多資訊都不明確只說有這件事情所以我們當然接到這個我們當然就立刻就會介入去詢問說那是什麼時候沒有按照我們重大偶發的一個情況各位都知道我想在在場的很多人都知道我們收到偶發他必須要七天之內就把提供更七天之內就提供更具體的說明外面有一個image就覺得說銀行局裡面規範有比較嚴謹"},{"start":4310.235,"end":4336.923,"text":"這個保險局基本上也都非常的嚴謹啊政區局因為底下又有交易所啦又有櫃買啦所以他分了就是那個線比較長所以呢大家就會對你那個主要主要這三個局啊就對於這個政區局啊就覺得政區局好像這個線太長了溝通不容易變這個樣子所以績效不好政區局"},{"start":4338.394,"end":4364.561,"text":"其實委員不太一樣這三個產業比如說我們政經局是這個主管公開發行公司有加證券的這些範圍它的那個加速跟這個範圍跟監理的強度本來就不太一樣但對金融機構又是不一樣的那當然比如說我們的投信投顧法銀行法跟保險法本來就有不同的規範那當然對於一些的限制本來就不太一樣還有等一下"},{"start":4366.041,"end":4382.678,"text":"你這檢查局已經進出國泰投信進出了吧是 他本來就已經在做檢查大概什麼時候可以檢查完檢查是按照我們檢查的需求不會是先預定什麼時候要中檢查檢查幾天了 已經檢查幾天了這我們待會可以請我們檢查局來來來 現在講一下檢查"},{"start":4385.59,"end":4410.821,"text":"報告委員我們是6月22號開始那預計是6月幾號6月22號上個禮拜一6月20號上個22號所以10天那預計是到7月初7月8號但是必要的時候我們還會再繼續延長所以大概三個禮拜大致上是這樣子三個禮拜左右一般過去檢察局介入時間多長一般來講"},{"start":4411.857,"end":4423.99,"text":"一般來講看他的這個金融機構他的規模如果說像是投信的話大致上有些是兩個禮拜到三個禮拜左右夠了啦兩三個禮拜夠了啦你現在發現什麼問題沒有"},{"start":4428.974,"end":4448.378,"text":"委員我想這個檢查的細節實在不適合請我們局長在這邊說明我想這個程序部分我們可以充分的說明這個不是不應該只有國泰性化發生其他的頭性可能也有你要不要全面清查什麼時候全面清查"},{"start":4450.859,"end":4465.266,"text":"我們現在已經開始在做了我們已經請那個我們投信投過工會先開始我們已經請他開始要做這件事情當然我也會請我們齊群因為這個部分因為很攸關到我們投資標的合法性這個太重要了這個東西"},{"start":4466.266,"end":4477.208,"text":"所以這件事情其實這個不應該犯一個這個叫做低級的錯誤啊怎麼可能所以這個電腦一按就知道了怎麼會怎麼會讓這個事情發生怎麼會後面這麼淋漓浪浪而且拖這麼久的時間不可思議啊大家不可思議啊所以我才給你我才給你下一個標你就是你們監理擺爛啊就是你就不痛不癢啊沒有包就沒有你們應該主動有一個主動的"},{"start":4495.032,"end":4514.82,"text":"auditing的機制主要是auditing說他們投資的因為證交所 期交所都在你手上你們應該叫他periodically定期的一些資訊給你們看一下他裡面的投資標的有沒有違反到這個東西"},{"start":4516.1,"end":4538.712,"text":"對 當然這是我們有我們定期查核的工作其實我們有幾道防線政府的監理已經是最後一道了我想說他們內部本來就應該他們內部都有規定各個公司不管哪家公司他都有規定說多久要申報你都相信他都要申報但是他們沒有落實這件事情他為什麼沒有落實他們自己的規定這我們要來檢討你對他們有處罰"},{"start":4542.874,"end":4566.627,"text":"因為這個處罰是要把所有事情釐清就跟法院要判刑一定要把所有事件確定才能夠做那如果處罰的結果就是現在調查結果就是這麼大的漏洞最高處罰是怎麼樣罰錢這個我們投信投顧法這邊上次在記者會有說明罰多少錢違反投信投顧法的話最高是罰到三百萬那可以撤照嗎撤照"},{"start":4570.942,"end":4587.163,"text":"有沒有撤照這樣法規裡面也是有這樣規定這個嚴重的事情這麼大一個紕漏另外我想要問一個你可以看到今天有媒體揭露PC Home被害"},{"start":4588.346,"end":4605.3,"text":"裡面派啊 PI 錢包啊被害這裡面損失影響了350萬戶他的個資全部外洩這個第一家的被勒索的一個軟體啊這個入侵的第三方支付這個經國會怎麼看這個事情"},{"start":4606.26,"end":4630.459,"text":"我想這是應該講任何一個機構不只金融機構或者第三方支付我想今天我有看到那個速發部已經迅速採取一些動作我想這個也給我們很多警惕我們這邊也有電資也有銀行這些都要注意這件事情這也是我們在過去我們在去年頒布資安韌性藍圖的時候特別特別強調未來最大的風險之一就是資安風險特別是金融機構擁有這麼多的"},{"start":4632,"end":4648.998,"text":"客戶資料還有就是影響整個金融安定那我想這是第三方支付被害我想我們這邊也會來提醒你們要不要再啟動一個對於銀行金控他們的資安我們全面再做一次檢查有沒有這個必要"},{"start":4649.338,"end":4674.769,"text":"其實我們這隨時外作我們剛剛才結束不久整個大型的資安演練應該是上個應該幾個禮拜應該上個禮拜還是兩禮拜前結果通通好也不是我們所謂不是都很好大家就是這個資安演練本來就是要不斷地用所謂的一些情境去測試你給他們打分數是都是A級嗎還是B級"},{"start":4677.455,"end":4682.077,"text":"這個我沒有這個數據啦 回去我再提供給委員看他們這次的這次的對 這是演練的狀況 我再跟委員報告下次請一下 請一下財政部的次長陳次長"},{"start":4698.12,"end":4724.055,"text":"主席啊 是 拉文好一個題目啦 是你聽一下你部長講一話有關於台美的避免雙重課稅啊在這個地方我不知道問了幾年了答案都是 啊 今年秋天因為那個美國眾議院去年就通過了現在還在參議院參議院呢大概今年 因為他要選舉了"},{"start":4725.578,"end":4736.153,"text":"大概你了解美國的參議院的一些運作方式今年底幾乎不可能這個東西產政部有沒有什麼辦法再撲朽一下美國快一點有沒有"},{"start":4737.068,"end":4764.309,"text":"是 謝謝賴文我想財政部過去這幾年包括跟外交部整個還有駐美的一個代表我們對於ADTA的部分我想我們積極在push一個讓他的一個法案能夠盡速兩院來通過並他的一個美國總統來合併現在我告訴你參議院卡在參議院好 最後一個小問題替你們的基層人員講話現在說要軍工就要挑心不管挑3% 4% 5%"},{"start":4766.691,"end":4769.354,"text":"我們希望在這裡面有一個人種特別強有一個專業價值"},{"start":4772.213,"end":4798.864,"text":"你可以看現在的稅層基層所最基層的幾乎缺百分之二十找不到人又辛苦他的家籍又少這一部分你們要不要跟人種那裡去跟他請命一下專業家籍要提高否則你找不到基層的稅務人員我現在告訴你每一個地方比如太平洋市政府大安區有大安區基層所底下的人"},{"start":4799.824,"end":4820.662,"text":"文山區一樣 這些人現在都缺平均820%專業家籍非常多謝謝賴委員我想今天剛好是稅務節也謝謝委員跟我們一起來跟人總我們的稅務同仁就是想辦法加專業家籍留住更多的人讓願意來我們財政部 好不好好 謝謝委員的感情好 下一個諮詢委員謝謝賴世寶委員下一個諮詢委員請郭國文委員諮詢"},{"start":4833.03,"end":4836.458,"text":"謝主席有請彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":4840.356,"end":4857.969,"text":"委員早安主委好你剛剛提到說要討論制度不要探討個案但是事件的本身有它的嚴重性如果沒有了解事件的話如何在制度裡頭做修改呢剛剛也有委員提到說你承認治理失靈但是不承認監禮擺爛那我們就來看看國泰怎麼內控失靈"},{"start":4864.724,"end":4875.39,"text":"就本席所得知的訊息國泰在1月20號的時候就已經處分完這四星KY的股票已經造成了損失喔1月20號居然1月23號在"},{"start":4877.413,"end":4896.006,"text":"給金管會一個文就稍微點到不明就裡的說有人去監視到三月的時候才告訴你說我違反立官這裡頭發現了幾個錯誤國泰第一個錯誤就是說上面的知道 金控知道 銀行知道這投信的卻狀況外"},{"start":4897.487,"end":4908.997,"text":"這是非常奇怪的事情 非常荒謬啦第二個的部分呢3月17的時候呢 這個通告的金管會之後呢依法 它應該兩日內公告沒有 沒有公告"},{"start":4910.134,"end":4927.908,"text":"第三個呢他沒有進行任何一個內部的究責就只有請辭以示負責我看是以示卸責啦所以從這幾點來看的話國泰的部分違法的狀況我想請教一下主委第一個關係人交易的部分"},{"start":4928.949,"end":4952.862,"text":"違法 剛剛說要划三百萬好 第二個呢依照投信投告法八十一條的部分影響到受益人兩日內要公告結果呢 沒有公告這要怎麼處理主委 這兩個我就看看你要怎麼處理委員就四個字啊 依法處理啊依法處理 那什麼時候處理啊我們把所有事實釐清以後我們就會依法處理就一併處理當然"},{"start":4953.783,"end":4970.255,"text":"好 那第三個呢 我就要請問一下證交所董事長啊這國泰投信呢 這是國泰金的中道公司呢結果只公布了一個請辭請證交所李愛玲總經理董事長有先跟我請假十點半以後才會列席就 就沒了那 那證交所有沒有要處罰還是要一併處理報告委員 因為這個案子的話呢相關的規定並不是在證交所這一邊"},{"start":4982.582,"end":5007.026,"text":"那個重大訊息公佈不在你們嗎那有沒有違反你們要查啊那重大訊息的內容的話目前看起來是沒有違反那具體的話我們回去可以再你們查看看這麼重大的事項沒有在重大訊息裡頭公佈這實在很誇張那主委你剛剛提到說你不承認這個監理擺爛但是本席認為金管會實在過度輕忽啦"},{"start":5008.697,"end":5037.602,"text":"沒有監理擺爛但是這件事情搞到後來我認為啊不可收拾的原因是紙包不住火啊那有1月20號已經處分完股票後續才聞來聞去你4月發一個聞6月發一個聞搞了5月6月的時候事情大爆發的時候你在精簡進駐那我會問啊你現在精簡進駐到這個國泰投信有沒有可能上述到國泰釋法有沒有可能上述到國泰金庫"},{"start":5038.854,"end":5065.103,"text":"如果事情發生有可能相關的人知情的情況底下呢你有沒有排除這個可能性剛剛檢察局局長已經說明了就是我們按照我們的那個進程如果有必要我們當然都要去有必要的時候要上座對不對這整個集團的問題耶這本來就是這樣我們檢查的實務就是這樣就你所說的如果治理失靈的話怎麼會只有國泰投信治理失靈而已呢"},{"start":5066.062,"end":5094.24,"text":"當然我們這個我們不能做這個規律國泰司法會排除嗎?國泰清空你就要排除嗎?我們沒有排除啊我只是說不排除對不對?必要經檢的時候擴大範圍是不是?我們現在的範圍呢是因為主要是現在國泰投信發生這個事情嘛我們當然現在經檢剛好進駐在國泰投信我們當然是按照這個來做剛剛局長也說了我們該查的我們就要查依法就要查"},{"start":5094.5,"end":5119.917,"text":"沒有 主委 我講實在話啦苦口婆心啦 跟你說啦外界說你會過度輕忽的原因啦 跟台中銀行有點類似啦因為有老長官在那邊當門神啦之前台中銀行有李瑞昌 這次有王立民啦又加上一個吳當傑副主委啦 這一組又一副啦委員 這些都不是我的老長官我也跟同仁講過 我們金管會的老長官不是你的老長官 是底下的人的老長官啦"},{"start":5120.737,"end":5136.209,"text":"委員這一點我必須要說明現在我也跟我們同仁講金管會只有自己是監理官沒有老長官好沒有老長官那我就看你後續怎麼處理第二個你就看到國泰規模大你就輕忽嘛"},{"start":5137.482,"end":5151.996,"text":"第三個委員你可以說我輕忽但是我們這個部分我剛剛跟第一個委員我也跟他說明過了過去我們有我們一定的步驟這個東西我們要釐清我們不是只有檢查這個工具而已這件事情知識體大"},{"start":5153.337,"end":5176.267,"text":"拖到這麼嚴重的情況底下 很多人看不下去如果說你清楚知道治理失靈的話為什麼讓它失靈這麼久 你們經檢局才會進入就是說你過去一段時間以來你重視整個金融改革 金融政策的一個開放但是 監理的部分的把關"},{"start":5177.908,"end":5205.779,"text":"絕對不能輕忽啦當然沒有輕忽委員剛剛提到檢查是一個監理動作我們約尋他來也是個動作我們請他提供資料補充也是一個監理動作檢查是我們說這些東西我們沒辦法需要到現場去因為我剛才講是主動通報他已經主動通報了那這樣子我們再繼續請教一下主委好了好 主委那個投信業當中呢在2024年的時候弄一個自律規範就是所謂的責任地圖啦"},{"start":5206.806,"end":5227.004,"text":"在責任地圖當中這些成員包括要納入讀懂的建議跟監察人的建議那我問一下這個責任地圖的問責委員會他們內部啟動了沒有我想我們規定這樣做他們就要做啊你有沒有查過嘛沒有我可以請我們局長來跟你簡單說明一下有沒有 局長來說一下"},{"start":5230.902,"end":5255.744,"text":"報告委員那我們是有要求他們都要訂有相關的責任地圖我今天講的機制的自律顯然是沒有自律嘛你們這個是白訂了嘛2024年責任地圖是卸責地圖還是責任地圖弄到現在事情發生這麼大條了問責委員會還沒有成立完全沒有自我檢討的能力嘛"},{"start":5257.657,"end":5276.091,"text":"那你還沒有要求他你們要求自律要求什麼的我們會來加強所以說你整個對這件事情真的是過度輕忽啦其實我們一向都非常重視結果呢這個郭明健就發表了六點聲明沒他的事啊"},{"start":5278.991,"end":5298.757,"text":"之前呢銀行局也在用整個那個所謂的這個責任地圖也拖了到現在還沒有出來都失去時效好我再拉回來跟那個主委講一個很嚴肅的事情我覺得國泰金控啊他現在啊已經不是治理司令而已他會引發金融國安危機不久之前啊"},{"start":5302.419,"end":5331.668,"text":"國泰本身的信用卡核心系統的時候就爆出承包商的認知科技是中資企業主導者是誰郭明健是其中之一主導者是誰他是接下來接班人之一不是蔡鴻圖本身所以說這種事情就知識體大了這一次才看到郭明健他本身是香港籍的人士二來從四星KY到遠東紅信都有中資的色彩"},{"start":5334.662,"end":5353.65,"text":"遠東紅線背後的大股東又是中國中華集團體系被認定為中國央企的背景中國中國中國 全部都中國一個這麼大的金控公司你沒有到連想到中國是不是有刻意想要透過不同的方式來進駐整個金融體系嗎 主委"},{"start":5354.827,"end":5370.665,"text":"這事情大條目 你自己說嘛我想當然委員的顧慮有你的根據啦但是我說我們在從前一次那個國泰世華因為他使用一個系統的問題我們也請他做妥善的處理一而再 再而三對"},{"start":5371.886,"end":5396.104,"text":"這件事情的話 我們也有 也會來關注這樣的一個狀況國泰釋法大到不得盡耶 國泰釋法不是單純的一個公司治理的問題耶它牽扯到整體金融國安危機的問題耶 主委我要在這邊強烈建議你精簡單位既然已經納入了我要求類似這樣的問題要納入精準範圍 主委你回答一下"},{"start":5396.943,"end":5424.506,"text":"我想任何該釐清澄清的我們都有必要去澄清跟釐清該釐清澄清的這是一個基本上又模糊又有原則的說法但是具體的方式你要真的要審慎的態度面對這個問題這個問題真的很嚴重啦當然好 當然接下來你去看金融機構負責人兼職其實真的是要嚴格規範本席要探討這個制度面的問題"},{"start":5425.95,"end":5445.381,"text":"一個負責人 國泰釋法可以三件事 幾件事比較多的不會影響到他公司治理嗎對 所以我們在我們的辦法也規定的數量也問題啦數量是一個問題對象也是一個問題經驗條款是一個問題還有包括可能造成立官的這個可能性要如何杜絕都是問題啦"},{"start":5447.594,"end":5475.983,"text":"所以你要開放給金融機構負責人做兼職的話一定要嚴格限制第二個 金融公司底下的資訊的共享也非常的重要你要去如何處理避免那些事情的產生當然啦還有啦 本席要嚴格要求啦你剛剛說你沒有老長官啦但是有一些獨董 董事去當門審的要如何去強化他們的責任 這很重要你們是不是在制度上來做一個約束跟管理"},{"start":5476.924,"end":5484.71,"text":"對 我們也正在做這件事好 就這三點 請主委回去好好討論一下 強化監理 謝謝謝謝郭國文委員質詢現在下一位 請林黛樺委員質詢請金管會彭主委委員長安"},{"start":5518.206,"end":5518.647,"text":"好對不起這個"},{"start":5521.869,"end":5549.587,"text":"好那現在呢我們這個全民如何讓全民共享這件事情我們如果有國家重大建設全民納稅政府預算然後呢這個當中我們所產生的這個有可能的這個資產的增值或租金的收益但是呢我們一般民眾卻是沒有一個管道可以來共享那甚至呢一般民眾也遇到通膨或者高房價"},{"start":5551.929,"end":5566.202,"text":"那他所能夠應用的個人所得就有限所以呢在這個我們人民不應該永遠都只是納稅的膀胱症好那什麼是律師呢其實這都是你們的專業化整為零的金融積木"},{"start":5567.423,"end":5585.574,"text":"那如何把這樣的一個房地產投資信託的基金能夠用一種基金的架構設立把房地產包裝成投資信託的基金來發行最重要的本席在意的是能夠讓全民贊義讓小額的資金也能夠分享租金收益與資產的增值為什麼推動了20年"},{"start":5592.979,"end":5610.571,"text":"目前還是一灘死水 日本做得起來 新加坡做得起來他們都達到兆元的一個規模那日本它是亞洲最大的市場 新加坡在亞洲也算是這個市占比也是最高那台灣目前卻是不到0.1%"},{"start":5613.012,"end":5637.365,"text":"那這證明說我們台灣的真的沒有市場需求嗎還是呢制度設計出了根本的問題所以那此時此刻本席也認為REIT是推動的最好的時機為什麼除了我們民間的閒置的資產跟受減的資金豐沛之外我們國家有兆元投資國家發展方案"},{"start":5638.425,"end":5661.163,"text":"那如何呢導入我們的公共建設當中所以如果有這個基金的架構我們為台灣的經濟注入龐大動能全民也可以獲利的好那這個病灶到底在哪裡呢從被動的保管到主動的活化這是本席希望能夠金管會能夠加速推動的原因說白了過往的這樣的一個不動產證券化就是"},{"start":5665.186,"end":5683.31,"text":"我們的基金操作績效未達投資人的預期那為什麼呢制度的設計過往都是偏重在資產保管跟風險控管缺乏主動的管理跟資產的活化我就希望本席改革的重點我就管理的模式資產的活化投資的標的國際的趨勢做個比較"},{"start":5686.531,"end":5713.649,"text":"那在過往的這個信託的架構的這個不動產證據是偏重資產保管跟風險控管未來希望用基金的架構能夠有專業團隊主動的管理具備彈性資產的活化過往是僵化跟缺乏動能希望未來用基金的架構是靈活配置跟追求成長投資標的這才是重點過往是呃受限於少數傳統的三半收出未來"},{"start":5714.77,"end":5739.111,"text":"不碰社宅不碰任何的住宅的這樣的一個限制之下導入公共建設倉儲冷鏈資料中心像現在日本最夯的也是一樣就是在導入希望綠池能夠導入倉儲冷鏈資料中心我想這個都是我們可以這也是本國現在的重點的產業發展的標的"},{"start":5742.214,"end":5750.649,"text":"而且過往是不符合國際主流的未來我們希望能夠跟每日新加坡兆元市場的主流架構來對接的"},{"start":5752.455,"end":5774.352,"text":"好那在健全新金融生態當中希望趕快的進速立法那我知道這個部分也希望您再多一些加把勁的多一些這個政策的說明立法的一個利弊得失那能夠多一些對立法院對人民的說明那我們希望啟動的實質的投資當然對業者自律跟投資人的保護這也是重點"},{"start":5780.456,"end":5787.704,"text":"好在這邊我具體的要求為什麼在日本跟新加坡他們的這個不動產證據不會淪為炒房炒樓的工具在於他們有極高的強制配息的要求第二個有嚴格的槓桿上限第三個他們以租金收益為主"},{"start":5798.757,"end":5804.719,"text":"第四個他們非賣賣價差的商業模式所以高額配息當中我們希望他是能夠強制九成以上能夠獲利分配給投資人也就是說我一般的人民我在意的我們一般人民財富當中"},{"start":5815.362,"end":5832.11,"text":"的一個增值上他也能夠投入的嚴格的槓桿的限制他不能很隨便的可以借錢是有嚴格的法定這個借貸的一個槓桿上限那重點我們是長期的收租能夠長期穩定的房屋租金而非頻繁的買賣房屋賺取短期的這個價差"},{"start":5836.412,"end":5853.754,"text":"那健全這個租稅的機制好那對於尤其對於短期投資性的買賣課重稅這個都可以在法令當中很嚴格的這個載明好那所以這樣子的機制這個REITS的架構由信託改為基金那這個"},{"start":5854.875,"end":5872.786,"text":"重塑國家建設的金融生態系金管會所做的就是嚴格的監理跟自律要求那投入的是國家導入國家重大建設獲得民間兆元的融資讓我們一般住民跟小資族也可以透過合法透明的穩定收益"},{"start":5873.266,"end":5882.934,"text":"當然這重點也能夠讓我們的專業經理人這個所謂我們的金融人才能夠更為多元跟豐沛那來執行資產的活化跟獨立估價的業務那台灣不缺資金卻的是參與國家成長的制度"},{"start":5890.24,"end":5909.175,"text":"所以綠子的改革本席還是要要求不炒作房地產為前提的制度設計開放更多元的金融工具來推動公共建設第二個讓人民可以用合法透明的方式成為國家建設真正的共享者在排除住宅的狀況之下鼓勵倉儲"},{"start":5910.376,"end":5924.491,"text":"冷鏈 資料中心等重大建設最後能夠實現的資產活化全民抗通膨國家發展的三贏的局面好 那我不曉得這個主委您怎麼看待這個議題呢"},{"start":5926.277,"end":5937.349,"text":"謝謝委員這麼豐富的報告我只有四個字完全贊同完全贊同那現在的困境在哪裡呢我覺得現在這樣因為這個方案從2018年開始現在是2026年已經8年了那我想"},{"start":5943.736,"end":5962.162,"text":"這個法案也在我們財委會一讀也通過了那我們也是希望說趕快能夠三讀通過那我們這邊執法我們都已經在研議中所以我覺得在我們在推動雅致中心的時候有個很重要的計畫就是RIT的基金架構的推動計畫"},{"start":5963.522,"end":5992.118,"text":"因為我們也從剛剛委員也提到我們看其他國家他們在發展這個除了是一個讓資金投入到我們台灣的產業還有台灣這塊土地一個很重要的載具以外也是一個讓普惠民眾可以投資的一個管道那再來我們現在採用雙軌嘛一個就是原來信託還在但是我們加一個基金的架構那你覺得在立法院的這個遊說上你覺得你應該要怎麼調整做法呢"},{"start":5992.671,"end":6015.963,"text":"我想我在這邊我們當然也是因為躺在立法院啊你說也討論過啦那這個又這麼重要那您也把這個我們也看到您努力推動的這個我們資產管理中心有這麼豐沛的有這麼很好的一個績效包括我們一些人才管理人才的財富管理金融管理人才的甚至都可以回流包括今天我在"},{"start":6016.483,"end":6042.384,"text":"除了我們的證券、股票、期貨等等這些工具的相關人才的導入那投信投顧業如果他也能夠導入我相信這方面投信投顧業的金融管理人才我們也會更加的國際化所以你在這邊是不是在立法院的遊說當中應該要多加把勁啊是是是 我們會來努力我想我在這邊也是希望說"},{"start":6043.581,"end":6063.862,"text":"也期待跟委員一起努力啦我覺得這部分的話我覺得這部分可以增加我們投資的管道也能夠活化這些工具能夠讓資金投資台灣我想這也是非常重要的所以我們在過去一直也都希望透過各種的努力那我們也看看有沒有辦法我們再一起努力我們當然會"},{"start":6065.323,"end":6090.06,"text":"我覺得你的遊說上可能有一些問題不只對立法院以及對全民因為不炒房這件事情一定要講在最前面不碰住宅一定要講在最前面那你投入導入的公共建設那你應該怎麼讓人民受益讓我們所有一般人他也可以除了這個股票之外那我們有哪些基金可以投入我們公共建設我們要來強化政策說明這我們會來努力好 以上謝謝"},{"start":6096.705,"end":6096.885,"text":"請財政部陳次長"},{"start":6124.781,"end":6137.329,"text":"市長好 因為因應今天證交稅的條例修訂金管會主委他已經在昨天的時候或是今天的報告當中已經對於"},{"start":6140.291,"end":6148.6,"text":"被動式的債券ETF呢他是不是也可能他已經現在是變成是免徵稅的這個對象那現在就是說對於主動式的這個在債券型的主動式的這個證交稅的部分ETF的這個部分呢那他是覺得說應該是可以在基於這個稅制的公平性因為他們兩個都是屬於"},{"start":6162.995,"end":6167.297,"text":"而且在過去的停徵在106年到113年停徵期間呢這個ETF的這個市場是蓬勃發展而且他的整體稅收是增長的那因為還沒有看到說財政部還是說依循著慣例在說你們的一個立場那我想說陳市長那你對這部分因為金管會已經有些立場了那請問陳市長財政部的立場會是什麼呢"},{"start":6186.172,"end":6209.826,"text":"好謝謝那些劉文的指教我想儘管跟財政部的立場是一致的就是我們為了健全整個金融市場資本市場及跟國際的一個接軌我們這些企業的一些他需要的籌措的一個資金我想不管是種主動式還是被動式的一個債券的ETF我想立場是在於健全我們整個"},{"start":6210.746,"end":6238.104,"text":"企業的一個資金的一個籌備那整個這一個部分的必須按照我們的財政紀律法跟我們的一個一個一個稅事支出評估裡面它分別在第六條裡面要辦一個所謂公聽會跟稅事支出的一個評估報告那這個部分我想金管會也辦了公聽會也將這個評估送到財政部來我們近期我們已經即刻在辦理所謂的一個扑平作業"},{"start":6238.684,"end":6263.42,"text":"等到扶貧過後之後我們就會移往給金管會是以上好我今天很高興是說聽到了您的財政部上面的態度啦基本上也是在在一致的立場但是還是有這個程序要跑就對了是好那就希望說這樣的一個程序能夠能夠也是加強我們的在債券型的這個ETF上面的一個發展好謝謝劉恩的指教謝謝好謝謝那我們現在請的是金管會的彭主委請彭主委喂好"},{"start":6267.472,"end":6271.234,"text":"好 主委好那我們知道在上個禮拜的時候呢在6月26號發生到颱風呢在因為雖然颱風沒有進來但是它的外圍環流呢造成了很大的一個我現在看到這個先讓大家知道很大的強降雨呢在一個時雨量達到上百毫米的情況呢造成很多的在內湖的"},{"start":6290.126,"end":6296.811,"text":"文德路或是金融里的地方呢就很多的商家跟住戶的他們就都淹水那機器機車都變成泡水車啦那有的商家他們的財損的達到了500萬元當然我們看到說有縣市長也去到場的是慰問就是補償金等等的但是相對於像這種動輒上百萬的這樣財損的時候呢我們就想說也許可以考慮到這種保險"},{"start":6314.744,"end":6335,"text":"但是就發現到說在台灣呢把颱風的洪水險呢是列在我們的住宅的火險跟車子的車體險裡面的負霞險當中那這個請問主委你知道台灣的住宅颱風洪水險的保率有多少嗎這個詳細的數字沒有我可不可以請保險局長給你簡單說明一下"},{"start":6337.267,"end":6360.975,"text":"我知道的資料大概是現在一趴啦大概是只有一趴非常低啦那這樣的情況下而且他必須要在有颱風有宣告的這個情況嘛就是颱風有這個發布警報是嗎所以在我們看到的資料是說呢這個投票率百分之一不大百分之一那可以看代表是說台灣遇到有這種高的極端氣候所造成的影響就九成九的民眾他的財產完全是暴露在風險當中"},{"start":6364.156,"end":6373.867,"text":"所以呢我想問一下主委您知道的話您知不知道在全球先進國家OECD裡面針對這種的極端氣候的這種災損災損險的一種發展趨勢是怎麼樣呢謝偉我以前在學校的時候我有"},{"start":6381.28,"end":6406.139,"text":"也研究過這個議題這個議題很有趣因為天災的部分它有時候有區域性還有就是它有一個很高的可選擇性再來就是它有大部分的國家都會用政府補貼的方式來做這件事情所以在商業保險在推動這些事情的時候就比較有一些局限比如說有些你在第四低的人你會很想投保但是你家住很高你就沒有興趣"},{"start":6407.34,"end":6435.471,"text":"所以他就必須透過強制投保才可以那這樣就會引發在立法上有很多的問題所以最後很多國家都採取比較接近類似用補貼的方式反正就是真的淹大水的時候再用政府的預算來做而且民眾也有這個期待說這種天災政府都用救助的方式來處理所以在國際上推動的時候比較常見像地震就可以做因為地震比較那個區域在哪裡大家會搞不清楚但是像水災的話就有很多特定的區域很容易被發現"},{"start":6436.551,"end":6448.139,"text":"主委我跟您講這個部分有其實很多形式我看到我搜尋了OECD的資料之後其實不是我們可以看一下我看到的資料當中是OECD國家因為商業險已經不夠的去支應了這個部分很多OECD國家裡面至少我看到的是甚至包括OECD它2026年它出版的是Financial Protection Against Catastrophic Risk這部分當中"},{"start":6467.172,"end":6474.979,"text":"他就指出了面對氣候變遷啊單靠商業保險已經不足以承擔風險你看沒說是商業保險不夠但是呢許多會員國會採取政府與保險業共同承擔風險的模式那這個風險是什麼模式呢就是政府支持的天然災害保險制度"},{"start":6488.772,"end":6510.566,"text":"這邊部分就會呈現到的是的確有的是高的有的是低的可是現在的很多部分是在於說尤其是包括農業的部分還包括的是因為我自己在參加在大概十年前參加坎昆的COP大概十六十七的那個會議的時候呢在九大類別的這種NGO的非政府的組織當中的裡面呢他們保險業是最多的一個蓬勃發展的因為他們把氣候變遷不是當作一個威脅而當作是商機"},{"start":6518.511,"end":6533.496,"text":"所以我就想跟你講的是說呢就是交換一下意見是說沒錯他們在這邊如果全部都保險強制險是可能有問題可是問題是汽車的部分其實是汽機車這個部分因為我們住宅的這個強制險我們比較少嘛但是汽機車至少是有強制險嘛"},{"start":6535.328,"end":6545.232,"text":"對 其實都有強制險對 那這個部分可以看到的是說因為保險的意思就是在平常能夠分散這個風險其實而且極端企業的情況是越來越貧險是的 沒錯但我在想是說我們可以看到的是是不是可以研究這一個部分就是說你是不是也是可以做一下研究因為我看到的是像在英國的部分它是所謂公私協力"},{"start":6555.075,"end":6579.949,"text":"他說用全英國的保單圍條起來成立互助基金然後再對於確保住在低溫淹水地區的弱勢民眾也買得起洪水的錢這部分那甚至比如說如果說跟這部分我也當然想說因為地區性有差異那我們也看到像我說第二個問題在於說包括如果可以結合防災跟危害地圖這部分我們的政部或是經濟部水利署是有資料的"},{"start":6581.01,"end":6581.871,"text":"像委員講的沒有錯 我剛才講說"},{"start":6602.838,"end":6626.036,"text":"這個天災保險 聚災保險它有一個先天上的特質但是剛才講未來很多國家是採用公私協力的方式因為商業保險它強調是對價橫貧就是你風險高就收費比較低但一般民眾我風險高他就不見得願意付比較高的保費對 所以就需要保險資不去做對 就是要由比如說政府來兜底對不對 對再用其他的方式 用公私協力的方式"},{"start":6628.238,"end":6656.481,"text":"這個就是說我們未來其實因為特別是剛剛委員提到我也非常同意就是氣候變遷是一個很大的趨勢就像我們現在開始我們也在推這個熱傷害保險一樣就過去從來都沒有想過這個問題就是說熱傷害也是一個問題那這樣我們也在推動這些因應氣候變遷我們該做什麼樣的一個準備在商業保險部分我們可以做那其他部會如果願意要開辦這個東西我們當然願意來一起公司協力看看有什麼更好的方法"},{"start":6656.561,"end":6681.346,"text":"你說開辦是誰要開辦因為這個部分的話就是我剛講假設由公辦因為金管會所管理也是商業保險那既然政策保險的話那就要看各個單位看怎麼樣來推動那您是不是可以承諾就是說講這個部分是一個是新興的那我就說如果我們台灣是一個多地震還包括的是多尤其是災水災的部分甚至剛才說現在還新興的所謂的高熱的部分"},{"start":6681.966,"end":6685.607,"text":"那尤其像上次的颱風我們大家知道去年我們因應丹納斯颱風還有馬太安西這部分的這個災後的重建部分一個600億一個250億就將近的就是已經將近的就是七八百億以上的這個這樣的一個風險如果都是由政府去做會造成會有這個財富的不是財富是包括我們預算的排擠效用"},{"start":6703.894,"end":6722.011,"text":"但是如果用的是這種商業保險包括但是政府部分去介入這部分讓有些部分的財務甚至有些車險這部分但是還包括是不是針對低窪地區的部分政府可以有這個保險機制我覺得是可以考慮我是想說您是不是可以承諾說在你們在行政院院會中的討論是不是可以加入這個意見讓跨部會進行討論"},{"start":6724.013,"end":6741.002,"text":"我想說假設有機會我也可以把這個意見帶回去不過就是說天災保險一個最大的問題就是保險的一個風險的可保性很重要最後一個叫做feasible就是具有市場性有可行性因為通常高風險就是要高負擔您這個小寫是講到的是"},{"start":6742.265,"end":6759.791,"text":"是用商業保險但是我是說你這邊是屬於國家政策性的部分因為國家如果最低成價還是用預算去分配的話那事實上是很危險就是說他財富會就是預算會被排擠好不好 那就不然你就再做一個您可以就說書面報告來做這樣大概三個月可以嗎可以可以可以謝謝好 謝謝我用書面回答好 謝謝主席"},{"start":6763.132,"end":6763.912,"text":"請今晚會主委"},{"start":6784.471,"end":6809.494,"text":"主委早安好委員早安那個郭國文委員打上半場我打下半場國泰投資事件的一個大事記我覺得很奇怪我一直就是念這一個這個很多的就是國泰金控國泰投信的這一個爭議案子我一直覺得是內控的機制那個疏失的事件"},{"start":6810.695,"end":6835.075,"text":"引發出來的這一連串的這個事物難道我們金管會其實金管會都沒有去發現到這些疏失嗎那你用現行的法規的一個規定的話銀行董事長到底可以不可以兼任其他公司的董事有沒有這樣的規定是我先從後面的問題回答為原第一個"},{"start":6835.996,"end":6859.853,"text":"我們在金融機構負責人的兼職其實有明確的規範有明確的規範金融機構跟金融機構之間的兼職原則是踩禁止例外是同意那就是基本上你在一個金融機構擔任負責人你就不太可能在其他金融機構擔任負責人除非有投資關係比如在金控公司或是你對他的投資關係這是一個非常嚴格"},{"start":6860.854,"end":6886.092,"text":"但是我們金控公司的負責人對非金融業的這些的兼職我們現在是不可以兼董事長總經理跟職務相當的職務那至於說其他的董事的部分呢我們是回到一個就是由他們自己去評估說你這個兼職你讓你的負責人兼職你必須要確保沒有利害就利益衝突而且是你要定期去檢視他"},{"start":6890.336,"end":6896.463,"text":"那到底這個郭明健有沒有提出申報我要兼這些公司的獨董"},{"start":6897.489,"end":6924.9,"text":"就是說如果這件事情如果他有及時的申報的話假設這個情況如果及時申報公司就會註記公司有註記的話就不會產生這個結果所以就是公司沒有註記我們先不要針對個案我說假設今天是個負責人他自己有真的去做好申報公司沒有去執行那是一個問題如果他沒有去申報公司當然不會去執行那公司是不是郭明健有沒有提出申請"},{"start":6926.282,"end":6932.296,"text":"那到底國泰投信有沒有跟金管會申報我要知道結果是怎麼樣"},{"start":6933.752,"end":6955.033,"text":"就我們現在看到的是如果國泰投信有接到他的申報的話他應該就會做一個防堵你現在查到這個時候你覺得就是以你看這整個案子的話從去年的6月到今年的5月的時候到底有沒有申報"},{"start":6956.243,"end":6977.705,"text":"我想這個是應該在國泰投信的部分應該是這個程序是沒有完備所以才會導致他的結果所以就是說我是認為郭明健他們給他講說他是併購的金童那就是說投資界給他這樣子的一個名稱那要給林修銘什麼樣的一個金童他也很厲害"},{"start":6978.866,"end":7002.096,"text":"對不對那如果是這麼厲害的人都不守法的話那這個踩線的機制你怎麼拆解他呢他的身份重疊觸發了法規的一個限制那我們可以不管他嗎顯然我們現在在管的時候金管會大家都究責就是說金管會在管理上面好像是慢了很多拍那你怎麼解釋勒是謝謝委員給我機會我剛才講過"},{"start":7005.638,"end":7025.22,"text":"大家都以為就是說這件事一發生主管機關就會直接做一個判定我想很多事情就像我們必須要充分去理解因為我們是主管機關我們做任何的決定跟裁罰一定要充分的掌握所有的資訊跟確切的證據以後確定是不是已經違規的事實"},{"start":7026.641,"end":7053.713,"text":"然後沒有其他的問題還就是我們要進行相關的行政程序我覺得這樣講是不是可以再修正一下你2026 1月23號國泰投信已經跟金管會就是通報重大的偶發事件了那這一個規定就是七天內你必須要函報詳細的資料跟改善的措施啊那這個到底有沒有七天內你們去處理這些事情顯然是沒有嘛"},{"start":7054.793,"end":7074.239,"text":"沒有 就是他的資料過來 我們覺得還有很大需要釐清的地方所以我剛才跟委員報告過 我們有多次的不管是透過新聞 約詢 或是用我們的其他的方式通知他 補件說明我想這個都是我們正常的監禁程序 只是外界都以為說我們都完全沒有作為"},{"start":7075.319,"end":7096.081,"text":"那主委我請教你,如果像現在他第二次在發生事件的時候這個6月18他一樣就是說在這個有一個重大事件的一個那個發生了好,那你現在你的這個調查局,就是第一次的時候調查局有沒有入住在國泰投信"},{"start":7096.661,"end":7112.973,"text":"我們剛檢察局局長已經說明過了他都已經現在進駐在國泰同性進行實地檢查我在講了2026年1月23日的時候這一次就第一次第一次發生的時候就我剛才跟委員說明過檢查並不是說一有通報我們就派人檢查"},{"start":7114.397,"end":7136.132,"text":"那因為我們需要檢查就是因為我們沒辦法掌握資訊的時候他已經主動的去通知這件事情我們當然可以跟他要很多很多的資料請他人來說明那直到我們覺得有必要的時候我們就派人實地去檢查這個並不必然說一有通報就要派人去檢查我想大家可能不是很理解我們監理上面的實務"},{"start":7137.193,"end":7166.212,"text":"所以這是一個誤解所以你想想看嘛這個國泰投信他又列帳賠了4億多可見這個事情是非常非常的嚴重那如果像主委你這樣子講的話因為你怕觸犯了這種金融上的一個秩序所以你也怕造成投資人的一個恐慌那你用這麼溫暖的一個方式其實不是溫暖我想委員這是一個正常程序我想就像我們一定會讓"},{"start":7167.513,"end":7193.103,"text":"一定要釐清事實我們才能夠做相關處理我們不能夠聽到一件事情就是說確定這個就是真的我們必須要真的完全的了解真實的情況我們才能做處理我想那這個郭明健就沒有記起你的這個經驗了你看他5月27號今年的5月27號再度再出任那個榮辰的董事啊那可見他沒有把金管會放在眼裡嘛"},{"start":7194.283,"end":7209.376,"text":"你講的話他認為不夠嚴重如果是這樣的話那我們就必須他們就是在整個內控機制他們本來就有一套他該要申報而且他們要查核的機制就剛才講他們自己的那個可是這社會大眾看起來他是累患"},{"start":7210.663,"end":7225.946,"text":"他是壘患欸他為什麼一直不斷的你們講他這麼厲害結果結果他是一直不斷的就是在走他自己的路我還是要想這整個事件圖利到誰誰獲利最多"},{"start":7226.607,"end":7252.004,"text":"我看不懂那好那我們就來回回來講制度面如果就是說我們你們儘管會要所有的銀行所有的金控就是內部的一個控制的那個制度的聲明書我們有沒有辦法從這個聲明書裡頭大家董事長還有總經理還有總集合這些列列上名字的人簽字的人我們從這個地方來處理來處罰有沒有機會"},{"start":7256.867,"end":7279.014,"text":"當然我要講說他們的內控制度都已經定在那邊為什麼沒有落實導致違反規定這是我們要確認釐清該罰就要罰我們會依法來辦理主委他就是簽給你的嘛你要不要罰他我剛才說明了就是假設規定他違反了規定確定以後當然是該罰就要罰"},{"start":7280.553,"end":7306.696,"text":"我在講就是說甚至就是你這一個虛偽的隱匿還是制度的一個失衡這個我們其實你是要很嚴肅的去看待這些事情那我還是在講我還重新再聲明一下這個聲明書裡頭牽制的人你要不要去從這個方向然後去要求他們"},{"start":7308.703,"end":7321.714,"text":"去要求他們這當然是我們要看他整整套制度為什麼會施令很重要的關鍵是所以你看喔這不是只有金控喔那你在台灣銀行其實他也一樣就是"},{"start":7323.695,"end":7345.281,"text":"內控的一個缺失不管是你的一個金控還是你的那個國立銀行也是一樣那這樣子的話監察院他糾正了這些缺失的時候那顯然那個力道是不夠的所以你的糾正文案所擠出的內容財政部有什麼相應的改善措施嗎"},{"start":7346.221,"end":7355.735,"text":"我們在對他的處罰函裡面就有要求他要按照怎麼做我們後續都有一個一個去去檢核他是不是按照我們的要求來處理"},{"start":7357.466,"end":7384.463,"text":"監察院講啊你說這相關的那個人員他後來還多名涉案為師的人員那年度的考積都是列為甲等啊所以這個黃武環二度的一個破口我們大家怎麼來看他這個糾正案文他寫得非常的清楚啊所以主委我想你可能要再多花一些精神因為顯然內積人員控是失衡的非常的厲害"},{"start":7385.049,"end":7400.557,"text":"我想金融機構內控做得不好我們該檢討責無旁貸但是就是說我們會來努力來做那至於說各個金融機構他們站在第一線我們真的要好好落實他們的內控內基我想這是他們該做"},{"start":7401.577,"end":7425.736,"text":"我們不希望這兩個事件是巧合因為這個還延續到上一屆的那個主委的一個領導風格到你現在你現在的一個整體的一個領導當然我不會去講說因為你的下面有誰去當門那個誰在當門審所以影響到你的整個判讀不過還是跟主委那個就是跟你做一個提醒還是強調一下沒有門審這件事情"},{"start":7428.218,"end":7437.369,"text":"好 謝謝賴會員委員下一位諮詢委員請李燕秀委員諮詢李燕秀委員諮詢之後休息五分鐘現在請李燕秀委員諮詢謝謝昭緯我是不是可以邀請主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":7451.38,"end":7477.757,"text":"委員好 主委早安我今天早上特別看到聯合報整篇頭版頭都在報導就是說PC Home的P錢包被害AI的整個內容海嘯全球非常的焦慮也就是說我們現在量子運算快速發展但是在國際上很多都普遍認為未來這整個我們的公藥的加密可能會遭破解"},{"start":7478.697,"end":7496.345,"text":"所以這一塊當然也是在我們金融行業在金管的部分我覺得我們都應該高度關注的地方但我也非常高興我也看到我們金管會在六月份已經發布了PQC的牽引的指引但是我還是非常關注就是說雖然我們發布但我們有"},{"start":7497.245,"end":7516.457,"text":"一定既定的時程但我們都知道其實量子電腦發展得非常快速我更擔心的就是說我們發布的那個時程是不是跟得上因為民間這些駭客無所不在他們我們發展我們雖然他們快速地在發展量子運算快速在發展但是這些駭客背後也不斷地在破解"},{"start":7517.017,"end":7541.785,"text":"就是說先收集後解密這個其實這是他們的策略跟步驟我都可以想我們料底必須重寬嘛我想你也同意我的說法那金融安全也是國家的安全資安就是金融的競爭力我們政府包括我們金管會也應該必須以更具體的時程跟成果包括來帶領我們金融業相關行業來完成後續量子的轉型所以主委"},{"start":7544.332,"end":7559.521,"text":"包括這些金融包括這些CBOM這些東西其實在金融行業的基礎管理資安的管理其實也是我們金管會主要的業務是非常重要的一個我們所要處理的事情"},{"start":7560.902,"end":7580.769,"text":"也是你主要的業務所以主委我非常關心就是說現在不是金融海嘯未來的AI海嘯料底重寬有可能來我們的錢因為我現在沒看到下年度的預算馬上可能下個月有可能要升送進來之後要升我們有沒有編列相關的預算"},{"start":7582.365,"end":7599.824,"text":"我知道我們整個金管會底下人力部件都很完整但是上一次我記得我有質詢過在AI資安的人才這一塊管理我們人才是不是招得到人你有沒有相關的組織裡面有沒有增加這部分的人力錢有沒有"},{"start":7601.005,"end":7614.681,"text":"這跟委員說明這也是我們很大的困難點因為我們現在的這樣一個那個薪資結構但是我們同仁很認真我知道同仁很認真但是 諸位"},{"start":7615.962,"end":7633.654,"text":"類似像這樣的狀況一而再 再而三的發生這個就是在整個資安上包括後量子時代我們政府怎麼樣帶領包括我們公股銀行可以先要求來做這個就是量子未來後續的這種"},{"start":7634.935,"end":7663.555,"text":"我覺得我們應該速度要更快才對就是說我們現在在我們在金融監理有個很好的地方就是除了政府以外我們跟這個金融機構有很密切的協力因為這個資安的部分很多的資源可能政府這邊可以跟他們做個互補來做所以我們在像我們很多的資安藍圖也都是希望我們做一個監理者提醒監督由金融機構來趕快按照這個時程來建置我想"},{"start":7664.375,"end":7685.078,"text":"這部分也是我們主委因為我今天時間有限其實因為我今天看到頭版頭我才提這個問題跟你討論所以我剛剛問說你錢人找不找得到我絕對完全的支持我也希望如果即便下會請你再送出來沒有編我覺得要想辦法跟院長提議要想辦法怎麼樣給你錢人找不找得到"},{"start":7685.999,"end":7695.245,"text":"我們可不可以快速緊急把這個後續後量子時代我們資安的安全的部分在金融行業我們把整個建置起來如果沒有趕快往前走我覺得這件事情是可怕的這是我要提醒主委的地方"},{"start":7702.21,"end":7727.229,"text":"所以包括後續銀行保險證券量子資安的風險的盤點等等我覺得CBOM的加速跟比例我覺得包括ATM跨境支付相關的證券交易是不是未來都有PQC的導入時程相關的里程碑我都希望說下個會期或者是送進來預算的時候我可以看到你有更具體的說法可以回應我相關的問題"},{"start":7728.67,"end":7746.332,"text":"因為外界也都在看我們希望我們政府可以及早做準備的話我們更可以要求民間公共銀行先來做民間的銀行馬上就可以跟得上我們台灣有這麼好的半導體資安對我們來說金融太重要資安的管理量子資安後續的管理太重要了"},{"start":7747.029,"end":7764.561,"text":"還是我可以請我們局長幾秒鐘跟你簡單說明銀行現在的狀況我們在銀行端已經有成立了這個FISEC就是透過財經公司如果有任何駭客供給的情資我們會通報到這個情資中心去馬上"},{"start":7766.022,"end":7788.955,"text":"會廣播到所有的金融機構都能夠掌握到第一時間的一個訊息那未來我們也會持續督促金融業包括電子支付業也是一樣都會納到這整個聯防體系裡面來做好資安的一個聯防工作另外一方面我們都有強制要求所有的銀行必須要設資安長那資安長他必須要定期的來向董事會來呈報目前資安防禦的一個情況"},{"start":7789.895,"end":7812.609,"text":"是 謝謝局長就是說我覺得我們要盤點得更清楚把所有民間掌握他們到底做得如何我們要掌握得更清楚這是我剛剛講的這個CBOM我們要有一個清單可以了解得清楚他們目前規劃升級包括預算跟人力他們相關的狀況我覺得我們銀行局這邊可能也都要有一個更完整的掌握好 謝謝局長 局長請回喔 主委 ESG"},{"start":7815.231,"end":7820.375,"text":"是我長期在委員會裡面我非常關心的我們ESG的評鑑過去著重在內部公司的治理股東的權益維護我們現在升級到環境永續社會責任的具體的實踐謝謝局長在上次我質詢的時候包括現在全國各校舍的耐震係數不足局長也順應我的回應你馬上在ESG裡面加強了這一塊謝謝局長那把校舍重建已經納入評鑑"},{"start":7845.231,"end":7868.866,"text":"那局長我就有一個問題我們最近風災很嚴重全國都有面臨極端氣候這個敵人的變化我也非常希望就是說包括在瞬間降雨啊這個未來氣候的極端氣候的常態的變化環境的永續這一塊未來是不是有可能在ESG也納入相關包括投資因為雖然企業大樓是一棟"},{"start":7870.314,"end":7898.992,"text":"我前面大街淹水也是淹到我所以環境的永續的部分未來包括新建地方政府新建調洪池包括透水我公司前面透水綠地公園或新建廠房三半大樓的時候未來包括加設雨水的回收池包括屋頂的綠化等等其實這也都是環境永續的一環未來可不可以更具體的把這些項目也納入"},{"start":7899.522,"end":7923.271,"text":"其實我們講的沒有錯,就是我們對從過去減碳現在到重點在調適就是當我們沒辦法改變環境的時候,怎麼樣在這個環境之下增強韌性這些都是未來我們在應對全球氣候變遷非常重要的工作也是現在政府在推動很重要的這個地方那我已經提到有關這部分,因為我們本來做ESG評鑑本來就是要與時俱進"},{"start":7924.651,"end":7937.627,"text":"是 針對這個東西怎麼樣順應社會的需求我想這我們可以來著手來還不止這些啊 局長我常常跟您討論有關業需未來永續社會的需求地方需求我們希望有機會這個相關的議題我希望"},{"start":7940.871,"end":7955.348,"text":"所屬底下的單位 我們更進一步的研擬就是怎麼樣讓環境永續 ESG 的部分 那個範圍更廣來符合民間社會大眾需求也達到這個環境永續的目的 好不好"},{"start":7956.008,"end":7984.565,"text":"這是我第一個問題那第二個問題因為時間只剩下一分半鐘就是對於金管會對於六代同堂亂象所祭出的政策到底效果怎麼樣我們前一陣子我們四月份要求各券商採取到期原則不續借調降可借的額度包括調高借款的利率等等到6月26號我看到我們市場已經回收了621億的股票直接的資金看起來效果是不錯"},{"start":7985.686,"end":8011.936,"text":"但是主委我們有沒有去了解就是說到底我們這621億主委你了解我的意思嗎請之前到底是他們主動提前還款還是因為申請未獲準而被動還款或者是券商主動斷竊強制還款這個比例到底是怎麼樣雖然看起來我們覺得說我們的手段效果好像是不錯"},{"start":8012.896,"end":8037.117,"text":"但是我擔心的就是說槓桿帶走的是獲利的部位而不是虧損的部位市場事實上還是承擔了很多的資金的風險資金的風險事實上並沒有真正減少那我擔心就是說如果資金風險沒有真正減少我們這個手段下去的話民間借不到錢他有沒有可能轉到地下去借錢"},{"start":8038.518,"end":8050.128,"text":"這又會是另外一個風險我們銀行端如果我們做信貸我們有擔保品我們都還可以用手段來控管但是有些人他想借錢借不到錢他轉到地下去"},{"start":8051.894,"end":8079.679,"text":"這又是社會上資金的另外一個隱憂所以主委這是我要提醒的地方就是我們如何去證明我們現階段的效果是好的然後又要防止民間就是玩股票啊往地下錢莊去借錢這是我今天質詢另外一個重點的議題我擔心的地方所以我有盲點一二三我希望在這樣的狀況之下主委去研擬就是說用書面回應我不再用別人時間"},{"start":8080.859,"end":8093.245,"text":"我們怎麼樣去不是消滅風險會不會是轉移風險那我們怎樣避免後續往地下錢莊去借錢的狀況發生我想這邊我想用順便回答你"},{"start":8407.302,"end":8408.843,"text":"我們現在恢復開會 請大家回座請大家就座接下來請閻寬恆委員質詢"},{"start":8439.889,"end":8444.978,"text":"呃主席各位理事館大家好主席有請金管會彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":8450.756,"end":8477.91,"text":"主委好主委財政部在6月16日與公股銀行召開例行的董總聯席會議那會議中提到公股銀行防詐ATM是今年銀行業務的一個重點佈局那只要提款者面部有遮蔽物例如安全帽、口罩或者是墨鏡等這些遮蔽物ATM就會發出響鈴、鈴響或者是警示"},{"start":8480.091,"end":8492.957,"text":"目前四月底供股營設置達到2%目標是希望年底前能夠達到30%可不可以請問主委目前最新的數據是多少"},{"start":8493.917,"end":8515.424,"text":"那個我待會請那個局長準備一下因為剛好這裡是我們行政院自然匯報上一個重要的工作項目那我們總共是希望說因為防炸的部分因為我們現在是希望供股先行然後我們協調財政部他們確實陳主委員講就希望年底的時候我記得好像達到要到4000多台幣"},{"start":8516.744,"end":8534.275,"text":"年底要到三十要到三十要到四千多台他們是希望四月份的時候兩趴現在六月份好像不只兩趴我記得年底要到三十我再請教因為公股先行對不對其實那些車手沒那麼笨"},{"start":8534.995,"end":8556.412,"text":"知道政府要開始加強作為的時候那他們一定會改變策略既然公股行不通他們就跑到這些民營銀行或者是我們超商的ATM那所以要讓這些政策不僅是公股來實施民營的銀行也要一同跟進"},{"start":8557.293,"end":8566.205,"text":"像是全台最多ATM數量的這個前幾家銀行中信、國泰、富邦、台新等等經常會能不能要求他們的更新速度"},{"start":8567.308,"end":8593.422,"text":"公股要30%那這些民營的銀行當然其實雖然剛剛是公股先行其實民營也蠻積極的有沒有明確的數字要求他們我們現在是這樣啦我們透過一些比如說我們現在在銀行公會成立那個打詐委員會嘛我們會用多重的方式期待他們來強化這些防詐措施他們其實也蠻積極只是各家所採取的方法是不太一樣那確實剛剛委員有提到就是說"},{"start":8594.102,"end":8620.685,"text":"假設他今天沒有辦法全面的話那就會產生一個就是比較弱點那個弱點就成為被突破的地方那這個我們也會跟警政署在那邊做做密切聯繫就是說他有些在過去經驗上有些熱點他們會提供這個情資給我們來處理這件事情因為我說我認為說現在在台灣超商超商已經是民眾日常生活的一個核心"},{"start":8622.006,"end":8637.44,"text":"不管是這些小家庭或者是一般的年輕客戶都是往超商跑那他們其中設置ATM又以民營的這些銀行為大宗實質上已經是成為防詐金融安全的第一線戰場"},{"start":8639.542,"end":8663.165,"text":"所以如果公股銀行已經設定目標而且年底前要達到百分之三十的覆蓋率那麼相對的金管會也要對這些遍佈全台集中在超商通路的民營的銀行提出更進一步的要求這樣子才符合我們的一個政策嘛那既然是三十趴那可不可以要求民營也同樣的要達到三十趴"},{"start":8664.086,"end":8682.176,"text":"這我們會來看看怎麼樣去深化它因為我們要看到它的積極性不是要從數字上去觀察嘛對不對這個方向我們是會來支持但是就第一個就是說他們做法我想委員有深入研究知道做法有好幾種所以我們現在這麼多銀行在做這些事情的時候我們也責成銀行公會"},{"start":8683.294,"end":8707.927,"text":"看能不能在8月的時候能訂出一個統一的標準讓大家來比較好推廣我們想這部分他也在做所以這麼詳細的簡單的事情我請那個局長跟您簡單說明一下現在數字好時間有限謝謝委員先跟委員報告數字的部分在5月底有15家金融機構包含公民營都有那總共有導入了1594台的ATM那目前我們的工作1594台"},{"start":8709.508,"end":8725.098,"text":"1594台那這樣佔總體的多少我們目前全部的ATM的總台數大概有33000多台所以事實上來講整個佔比非常低這個我們承認但我們現在目前的工作重點是在於說我們請這些銀行把他們事辦的情況回饋給我們因為陸陸續續已經有"},{"start":8727.94,"end":8754.343,"text":"銀行他通報造成民眾的不便比方說像這個影像身高的一個會讓民眾領不到錢等等或者是在流感期間又戴了口罩又要叫他們把口罩拿掉那目前我們會請銀行工會找這些金融機構過來把一些要繼續去改善這些流程的部分回饋給我們我們會在八月份再把一些好的一些這個做法來就是請所有的銀行來"},{"start":8756.103,"end":8773.271,"text":"這個就是八月份的時候可以提出具體可執行的一個時程表跟階段性的目標很明確的把它呈現出來大家的做法能夠比較一致因為其實各做各的其實大家也不知道怎麼做我們希望營養工會來針對過去的經驗把不好的把它踩除掉"},{"start":8773.991,"end":8799.188,"text":"打炸本來就是在跟時間賽跑因為我們今年底供股要達到30%那民營的如果說沒有辦法或者是這中間沒有大家沒有互相配合掉隊了他的腳步就是跟不上掉隊的所以就是會讓這一些不法的業者就是往民營這邊跑所以這裡就變成一個一個炸團的一個體管天堂所以這部分在"},{"start":8800.168,"end":8821.955,"text":"請我們主委跟我們財政部這邊再做一些演繹主委我另外再跟你請教我這個先前五月份的時候在質詢的時候跟你提到QR Code翻拍的問題那台灣Pay是由政府輔導下成立的平台"},{"start":8822.575,"end":8844.561,"text":"相對於Line Pay跟Apple Pay來講它的使用率沒那麼高所以就變成說是詐團的一個下手目標那詐團現在社群平台假裝發放一些免費或者是低廉的物品來吸引吸引這些誘人上當然後給假的臨捷那你點進去之後點進去之後就發現說欸 帳戶異常"},{"start":8847.842,"end":8874.559,"text":"在要求被害人點開台灣Pay的一個QR Code那這時候車手已經在超商等了他已經在另外一端已經在等待當詐騙集團得手之後車手馬上把這個把他得到的款項購買這個遊戲的點數在相對便宜的這樣子的折扣把這些點數賣出我們聽起來好像疑點重重但是確實被害者當下他不會想那麼多啦他就是想說"},{"start":8875.819,"end":8897.473,"text":"他就按照你的指示去操作然後結果就上槓了然後上槓之後他在那邊取款拿到錢之後買的點數就以五到七折就以五到七折的這樣子的一個價差然後賣給賣給這一些就是就是就是看到便宜想要買的這些這些遊戲的就要"},{"start":8900.339,"end":8916.912,"text":"這些這些人那其實就看準了我們這個金融APP在這方面的防禦意識慢慢拍所以說如果是這種情況我當時5月7號的時候希望你們無論是無卡提款或者是"},{"start":8919.193,"end":8945.19,"text":"支付碼頁面能夠全面導入防截圖防錄影還有偵測遠端分享及斷線這些部分你當時也承諾說會跟銀行局一起來做這一部分的檢討那現在兩個月了嘛我想說這兩個月有沒有更進一步的一些作為還是說準備怎麼做其實非常謝謝委員的督促啦其實我們立刻就做了我們就找了高檢署 警政署 銀行公會開會我們就"},{"start":8947.831,"end":8962.076,"text":"在7月底以前他們會完成剛剛講的那些的改善措施比如說他們先在做QR Code這時候會有個防詐提醒再來就是說他們會不讓他用系統去阻擋截圖跟螢幕分享"},{"start":8962.856,"end":8983.694,"text":"再來就是我們把那個QR Code的有效期間從原來3分鐘縮到一個更短的時間讓那個詐團沒有辦法即便被截走以後呢我們從3分鐘變成1分鐘他就大幅的可以降低他未來真的被截走以後的這個拿去做詐騙的可能所以我們這部分大概7月底應該就會來做這些518門的詐騙方式"},{"start":8988.438,"end":9015.93,"text":"這些受害者還是非常的多啦都在增加那刑事局防詐中心的隊長也特別提出說詐騙集團透過台灣Pay翻拍無卡提款然後呢騙到錢後再大量的購買點數把這些點數快速備現然後藉由他們在網路上開設這種代儲商店代替儲值的代儲商店用五到七折的折扣新穎不知情但買到"},{"start":9017.77,"end":9031.316,"text":"這種優惠的玩家然後來購買熱門手遊的一些虛擬寶物或者是點數嘛那這樣子就成功的把騙到的錢然後透過這樣子的方式又洗錢成功了當詐騙集團但是遊戲公司後台一查"},{"start":9035.618,"end":9053.66,"text":"發現說涉案的這些骯髒點數就是骯髒點數嘛全部都除盡了可能是不知情的玩家玩家的這個遊戲帳戶裡面普通玩家的遊戲帳戶那被官方這些帳戶可能就被官方永久的封鎖甚至於這些人本質他就變成被列為洗錢共犯"},{"start":9054.864,"end":9073.818,"text":"被列為洗錢共犯所以這是因為我們整個制度上還不夠全面然後能夠讓這些詐騙的一些手法能夠斷絕所以害讓這些無辜的人變成一個洗錢共犯所以這部分我們是後面還有很多現在滿街都是專業代儲公司"},{"start":9074.358,"end":9092.104,"text":"那這些就是一個新型態的一個特許金融仲介跟第三方支付的變體所以這部分是不是請主委要怎麼樣去是一定要直接規定代儲就是不合法的行為還是要怎麼樣讓他們把它規範成為是一個合法的行業"},{"start":9092.964,"end":9115.778,"text":"是 我想這部分因為剛剛聽到委員提到我想我們可能會再來找速發部來請教一下看這要怎麼處理從源頭來確保 好不好因為這個部分確實是時間很短沒辦法來做這樣子的說明再請把這個資料給我們辦公室好 謝謝 請金管會用書面跟這個原委員回答謝謝原委員 下一個諮詢委員請羅明財委員諮詢"},{"start":9129.008,"end":9133.318,"text":"主席各位 出列習慣 大家好 主席可不可以請彭主委 財政部陳次長"},{"start":9138.917,"end":9159.603,"text":"主委我現在講到一些接著最近講的總預算那你有沒有想過這預算那邊那今年的目標大概是怎麼樣明年的發展又是怎麼樣因為台股的市值現在已經是大概160兆"},{"start":9162.204,"end":9173.474,"text":"已經是越居全世界第五大的市場了那怎麼做台灣才可以繼續向前變成第四大 第三大"},{"start":9175.29,"end":9176.15,"text":"會不會漲太多?"},{"start":9199.059,"end":9218.521,"text":"我不會對這個東西做任何的預期所以不會設限說現在快四萬七千點四萬八千點馬上一下子可能就是本席又要請吃雞排跟喝珍奶了因為上次很多沒喝到沒吃到我就跟他講說沒關係啊那還有五萬點"},{"start":9221.364,"end":9234.865,"text":"五萬點一樣嘛四萬點就要請四百份嘛五萬點有人沒吃到就繼續請五百份的雞排加珍奶嘛那上次也講了嘛所以五萬點有沒有可能會達到"},{"start":9236.047,"end":9263.945,"text":"我想我剛剛委員讓我剛剛那個跟您報告完那就是說我想我們在意的是說我們的制度上比如我們很多的交易制度還有對投資人的一些的服務項目還有要跟國際競爭力對接的這些的做法我們要趁這個機會把它完善還要強化我們資本市場的韌性因為我們資本市場到達這個規模跟交易量的時候有很多的問題我們必須要好好來比如說我們的資訊很多的"},{"start":9264.905,"end":9288.413,"text":"參與者資訊要升級 確保這個交易的穩定性這都是我們未來要成為一個更完整的國際級的資本市場太好了 主委你的宏觀我就大力的支持馬上請證券交易所的林董事長 林修銘證券交易所的林董事長既然要跟國際接軌 那可能就要面對三個事情了"},{"start":9289.735,"end":9296.473,"text":"第一個可以想到的就是那個林董事長我們在交易的時間喔"},{"start":9298.308,"end":9323.325,"text":"夠不夠 要不要延長交易時間跟委員報告 事實上來講我們台灣的交易時間跟各國的比較主要的交易所來比我們是相對的比較短的事實上我們也一直在研議希望把它延長我們也正在跟證券商溝通當然我們主委也在跟你報告的事實上我們要延長交易時間還涉及到IT"},{"start":9324.645,"end":9333.669,"text":"現在的整個IT的韌性或我們要去取得一個平衡點所以這個是一個方向那到底是什麼樣來執行我覺得這個是一個關鍵我們希望這個延長是一個方向我們要努力既然要延長的話因為大家知道台股跟美股的這個輪動性相關性都非常大"},{"start":9346.963,"end":9361.028,"text":"美國昨天的台氣電ADR一漲台灣今天都跟著漲可是就有一個夜盤跟日盤的關係所以如果要延長的話董事長你覺得應該延到幾點"},{"start":9363.142,"end":9384.83,"text":"這個部分來講的話兩個關鍵啦要延長的部分來講第一個你中間要我們現在是一盤到底那日本的話他中間可能會休息那我們基本上據我了解證券商他們是希望一盤到底這是第一點那第二點到底是多久的時間呢我們現在傾向於就是說當然也不會像"},{"start":9385.71,"end":9406.383,"text":"因為我們也不像過NASDAQ或怎麼樣差不多二三小時或怎麼樣那我們基本上我們的延長的時間預計也不會大概一個多延長一個小時或一個半小時左右啦那大致上也會跟日本相關的這樣子來切齊大概講起來都是延到三點半左右囉對有可能我們現在這個時間我現在沒辦法延長的話那會不會變成那個每日的那個量"},{"start":9411.755,"end":9426.441,"text":"成交量會增加成交的金額也會增加跟委員報告事實上如果我們延長的話我們都會去評估它的成交量是不是會增加因為我們也要涉及到IT的韌性或這些部分那我們跟證券商的預測基本上來講"},{"start":9429.602,"end":9450.116,"text":"我們是預期能夠增加我們預期能夠增加到底增加到什麼程度我們事實上來講我覺得這個是我們到時候在IT的容忍程度上我們都會做一些simulation的考量是 如果延到大概三點半的話我們的每天的成交值大概現在一兆八千億可能就會到"},{"start":9452.058,"end":9467.779,"text":"兩兆八千億左右啦齁那對稅收的這個增加也很多所以在衍生的第二個問題齁剛剛既然說租的收到跟國際接軌那我再請教一下林董事長林董事長稍微再補充一下我請教一下林董事長林董事長"},{"start":9468.32,"end":9481.889,"text":"就是說要跟國際接軌的話我們發現在新加坡交易在香港交易在香港交易是銀花稅香港交易的銀花稅的稅率是多少"},{"start":9487.958,"end":9503.224,"text":"國際盤大概都是一般的千分之一嘛就這樣有一個問題就是股市的這一群人不斷的交易那事實上對整個稅收的貢獻度大概今年的證交稅是多少那個陳次長"},{"start":9507.066,"end":9513.431,"text":"預算多少?目前到6月大概3300億預算我們原來大概原來送預算案是2500億預估今年如果預金量都達到大概一兆8000億的話那你今天的稅收應該是變多少?"},{"start":9527.242,"end":9547.499,"text":"今年的稅收跟委員報告因為貴委員會也提升了6千億左右所以目前來講今年的總額大概是6千8百億吧3兆805億整個我們全國數的部分是所以你預計稅收是多少預計的稅收 證交稅的部分我們今年編列的是在7千億左右"},{"start":9548.139,"end":9567.021,"text":"7千億 其實不多 不只啦 應該是7800億左右 7千億啊 那多很多所以對國際的資金來說的話 那你這樣抽的稅是相當的驚人喔一年如果是7千億 十年是多少"},{"start":9569.427,"end":9579.7,"text":"7兆抽了7兆的话对于国际的这些买家来说投资者来说这个成本太高新加坡是多少"},{"start":9581.581,"end":9600.011,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛新加坡的印花稅是千分之一千分之一嘛千分之一好所以要跟國際接軌的話來我們請問一下那個稅要降 主委這樣聽起來你要跟國際接軌所以你的證交稅就要降成千分之一"},{"start":9600.791,"end":9625.768,"text":"那千分之一 有的人就說會不會降太多那因為當沖已經降稅千分之1.5啊那如果 諸位我們來討論提案讓它通過全部議題適用就是千分之1.5啊你覺得合不合理這不合理跟國際接軌的一個理想啊沒有沒有 國際接軌不是說跟別人一樣是我們的交易制度必須要檢討就是說"},{"start":9627.589,"end":9641.355,"text":"不是其他國家的稅是一樣我們就要一樣我們有各自各的不同還有也不是其他國家交易時間多長我們就要多長我們只是說我們這些制度呢因為很多年都沒有調整我們必須要思考一下我們已經成為國際級的"},{"start":9642.956,"end":9662.191,"text":"資本市場的時候我們要符合國際投資人的交易習慣跟大家所能理解的程度我們要做調整比如說就剛才談的交易時間因為交易所已經有做過很縝密的時間它有一些方案這是要社會共識才能做的這部分我們只能說交易所可以提出它很多很多的方案我們未來會根據整個這個討論再來決定P加2"},{"start":9665.393,"end":9689.529,"text":"會不會改成T加1我想全世界很多國家都在考慮做這件事情有人也在研議這件事情這是一個交易交割制度的優化過程這我們已經在請交易所跟兩個交易所呢針對我們交易的優化過程我們在做那這就是T加1 T加2那不是重點是重點在於說怎麼樣優化我們整個的更有效率的交割因為你這個剛好這個時代是變動的時代"},{"start":9695.629,"end":9721.356,"text":"你更應該要積極的跟國際接軌讓台灣的市值也好交易量也好可以跟台積電一樣啊不要想說我們第五了我們就置滿有沒有可能再往前第三第四的可能我想就是我們健全資本市場自然能夠吸引到各方的資金當然我們的資本市場越有效率越透明越公平那當然就會"},{"start":9722.396,"end":9742.141,"text":"本不屈肩那另外一個問題就來了那現在在這個沙烏地阿拉伯阿布達比他們那個地方的交易連虛擬貨幣都可以不限時間24小時買全世界美股全世界的股票那"},{"start":9744.551,"end":9762.179,"text":"我們金管會要不要研議更進沒有任何制度啊國際上值得我們關注的制度我們都有在研議但要不要採行這個牽扯到非常非常多方面的考慮我們研議都有在研議都有在關注我們會找出我們最適合我們的方法來進行這樣一個改革"},{"start":9763.579,"end":9776.407,"text":"主要不要怕 與時俱進 勇往向前讓台灣市場更自由 更開放那嘉惠股民 嘉惠所有全民好不好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}