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謝謝主席"},{"start":2338.8500000000004,"end":2340.8500000000004,"text":"那本席所提的第二案"},{"start":2340.8500000000004,"end":2343.05,"text":"是關於藝術銀行的租金收入"},{"start":2343.4500000000003,"end":2345.25,"text":"那藝術銀行的核心內涵"},{"start":2345.25,"end":2347.8500000000004,"text":"其實就是政府購買我國的藝術家"},{"start":2347.9500000000003,"end":2349.8500000000004,"text":"尤其是新興藝術家的作品"},{"start":2350.9500000000003,"end":2352.9500000000003,"text":"本席自己也有非常多"},{"start":2353.4500000000003,"end":2355.4500000000003,"text":"這個做藝術創作的朋友"},{"start":2355.8500000000004,"end":2357.3500000000004,"text":"不管是數位藝術"},{"start":2357.3500000000004,"end":2358.3500000000004,"text":"新媒體藝術"},{"start":2358.65,"end":2360.3500000000004,"text":"那其實這樣的一個機制"},{"start":2360.8500000000004,"end":2362.05,"text":"是值得鼓勵的"},{"start":2362.3500000000004,"end":2364.05,"text":"由政府來購買"},{"start":2364.4500000000003,"end":2365.15,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":2365.15,"end":2366.55,"text":"我們再有一個機會"},{"start":2366.55,"end":2368.15,"text":"支出給政府部門"},{"start":2368.15,"end":2371.15,"text":"公司立法人團體或民間企業"},{"start":2371.3500000000004,"end":2373.4500000000003,"text":"藉此鼓勵潛力的藝術家"},{"start":2373.65,"end":2375.9500000000003,"text":"一起來提升我們台灣藝術家"},{"start":2375.9500000000003,"end":2377.3500000000004,"text":"跟藝術品的能見度"},{"start":2377.75,"end":2379.55,"text":"那這也是台灣唯一"},{"start":2379.8500000000004,"end":2382.15,"text":"一個以購置作品形式來"},{"start":2382.15,"end":2384.75,"text":"扶植潛力藝術家的一個公設機制"},{"start":2385.25,"end":2386.9500000000003,"text":"本席一直以來都非常支持"},{"start":2386.9500000000003,"end":2387.8500000000004,"text":"這樣的一個機制"},{"start":2388.15,"end":2390.4500000000003,"text":"那也希望能夠當作他們的一個"},{"start":2390.55,"end":2392.4500000000003,"text":"第一步或者一個墊腳石"},{"start":2392.75,"end":2394.65,"text":"那我們立法院韓國院長"},{"start":2394.65,"end":2396.15,"text":"還有我們立法院的相關單位"},{"start":2396.15,"end":2397.35,"text":"也非常支持啊"},{"start":2397.65,"end":2399.85,"text":"所以在我們最近的幾個會期"},{"start":2399.85,"end":2402.15,"text":"在很多的會議的場所"},{"start":2402.35,"end":2404.75,"text":"我們也都有使用文化銀行"},{"start":2404.75,"end":2405.75,"text":"這樣的一些"},{"start":2405.75,"end":2407.85,"text":"租用文化銀行這樣的一些作品"},{"start":2408.15,"end":2409.75,"text":"那像我們教人委員會"},{"start":2410.15,"end":2411.05,"text":"各位如果"},{"start":2411.35,"end":2412.4500000000003,"text":"目光往後看"},{"start":2412.55,"end":2414.4500000000003,"text":"其實這幅非常美麗的作品"},{"start":2414.4500000000003,"end":2416.15,"text":"就是由文化銀行來的"},{"start":2416.65,"end":2417.4500000000003,"text":"那但是呢"},{"start":2417.4500000000003,"end":2418.85,"text":"我們也看到"},{"start":2419.35,"end":2421.35,"text":"本席像這個本席辦公室"},{"start":2421.35,"end":2424.05,"text":"像藝術銀行索取租賃的客戶名系"},{"start":2424.4500000000003,"end":2425.25,"text":"卻發現"},{"start":2425.75,"end":2429.15,"text":"民國113年到115年之間"},{"start":2429.35,"end":2431.55,"text":"那藝術銀行的租賃客戶"},{"start":2431.75,"end":2433.95,"text":"卻有逐年減少的趨勢"},{"start":2434.95,"end":2437.35,"text":"從113年的78名客戶"},{"start":2437.65,"end":2441.15,"text":"下降到115年只剩下62名客戶"},{"start":2441.65,"end":2444.0499999999997,"text":"那單位希望能夠請這個"},{"start":2444.45,"end":2448.0499999999997,"text":"有負責像藝術這個藝術銀行的這個項目"},{"start":2448.75,"end":2450.75,"text":"的這個相關的這個人員"},{"start":2450.95,"end":2451.45,"text":"或者"},{"start":2451.85,"end":2452.5499999999997,"text":"官員"},{"start":2452.85,"end":2455.25,"text":"能不能說明一下客戶減少的原因"},{"start":2455.5499999999997,"end":2456.0499999999997,"text":"那另外呢"},{"start":2456.0499999999997,"end":2457.65,"text":"本席也收集了國外的案例"},{"start":2457.65,"end":2460.35,"text":"好像英國的Government Art Collection"},{"start":2460.85,"end":2463.85,"text":"除了將收藏展示於政府的建築外"},{"start":2463.85,"end":2466.0499999999997,"text":"像我們的立法院的會議場所"},{"start":2466.35,"end":2470.65,"text":"他還會非常主動的將藝術品送到駐外使館"},{"start":2470.85,"end":2472.35,"text":"等等的場域展示"},{"start":2472.5499999999997,"end":2473.85,"text":"那這是非常重要的"},{"start":2473.85,"end":2475.75,"text":"那去提升我國藝術家"},{"start":2475.95,"end":2478.75,"text":"的國際知名度的一個非常好的機會"},{"start":2479.0499999999997,"end":2480.15,"text":"那在此呢"},{"start":2480.45,"end":2482.95,"text":"也希望同步的提出給藝術銀行"},{"start":2483.25,"end":2484.45,"text":"作為相關的參考"},{"start":2484.65,"end":2485.95,"text":"或許我們已經在做了"},{"start":2486.15,"end":2487.65,"text":"或許做的還可以再更多"},{"start":2487.85,"end":2491.15,"text":"那也希望可以比照辦理去增加我們新興藝術家"},{"start":2491.35,"end":2491.75,"text":"也好"},{"start":2491.75,"end":2493.5499999999997,"text":"或者是比較成熟的藝術家"},{"start":2493.75,"end":2496.8500000000004,"text":"一起來去增加產品曝光的機會"},{"start":2497.15,"end":2498.9500000000003,"text":"所以那既然我們預算已經編了"},{"start":2499.15,"end":2500.4500000000003,"text":"有一個這麼好的機制"},{"start":2500.65,"end":2501.9500000000003,"text":"也運行了多年"},{"start":2502.25,"end":2504.25,"text":"但是如果這個相關的"},{"start":2504.55,"end":2505.75,"text":"這個人數"},{"start":2506.05,"end":2507.9500000000003,"text":"租賃的客戶有下降"},{"start":2508.25,"end":2509.05,"text":"什麼樣的原因"},{"start":2509.25,"end":2510.75,"text":"是租賃客戶下降了"},{"start":2511.05,"end":2512.8500000000004,"text":"但是租賃的作品增加"},{"start":2513.05,"end":2514.9500000000003,"text":"那相關的這個狀態"},{"start":2515.15,"end":2517.75,"text":"能不能請就待會稍微說明一下"},{"start":2518.05,"end":2518.65,"text":"那不過"},{"start":2518.9500000000003,"end":2519.65,"text":"整體來講"},{"start":2519.8500000000004,"end":2520.8500000000004,"text":"預算的部分"},{"start":2520.8500000000004,"end":2523.3500000000004,"text":"基於支持本土新興藝術的立場"},{"start":2523.65,"end":2526.05,"text":"那本席同意此案改為主決議"},{"start":2526.25,"end":2528.05,"text":"那也請文化部於三個月內"},{"start":2528.25,"end":2529.4500000000003,"text":"提供書面的報告"},{"start":2529.65,"end":2531.3500000000004,"text":"待會能夠簡要口頭說明的"},{"start":2531.3500000000004,"end":2532.55,"text":"也許可以補充說明"},{"start":2532.75,"end":2533.4500000000003,"text":"但如果"},{"start":2533.75,"end":2535.4500000000003,"text":"進一步有些相關的數據"},{"start":2535.4500000000003,"end":2537.25,"text":"還需要進一步的來了解的"},{"start":2537.4500000000003,"end":2539.4500000000003,"text":"請三個月內來提供書面的報告"},{"start":2539.65,"end":2541.55,"text":"讓我們來一起追蹤"},{"start":2541.75,"end":2542.8500000000004,"text":"後續辦理的情況"},{"start":2542.8500000000004,"end":2543.3500000000004,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2544.68,"end":2546.48,"text":"好 請主管集團回復"},{"start":2549.1,"end":2551,"text":"謝謝各位委員剛才講這個"},{"start":2551,"end":2551.5,"text":"的確"},{"start":2551.7,"end":2553.6,"text":"我們對於那個視覺藝術"},{"start":2553.7999999999997,"end":2555.7999999999997,"text":"這一項是我們最重要的一個"},{"start":2556,"end":2558.2999999999997,"text":"一個幫助這個年輕藝術家的"},{"start":2558.6,"end":2559.6,"text":"這個一個項目"},{"start":2559.6,"end":2560.1,"text":"所以"},{"start":2560.5,"end":2562.1,"text":"我們會繼續努力"},{"start":2565.69,"end":2567.19,"text":"部發是補充一下"},{"start":2567.19,"end":2567.69,"text":"對"},{"start":2567.69,"end":2568.9900000000002,"text":"謝謝委員的"},{"start":2568.9900000000002,"end":2569.69,"text":"的"},{"start":2569.69,"end":2571.69,"text":"關心藝術銀行的業務"},{"start":2571.69,"end":2573.89,"text":"那藝術銀行從102年"},{"start":2574.09,"end":2575.4900000000002,"text":"到現在為止"},{"start":2575.4900000000002,"end":2577.09,"text":"他購入的藝術家"},{"start":2577.29,"end":2578.19,"text":"的這個"},{"start":2578.29,"end":2580.89,"text":"人次已經到達2000的人次"},{"start":2580.9900000000002,"end":2583.19,"text":"那他累計作品流動量"},{"start":2583.19,"end":2586.89,"text":"也已經到達11367件次"},{"start":2587.09,"end":2588.09,"text":"那雖然"},{"start":2588.19,"end":2590.29,"text":"可能客戶有逐年減少"},{"start":2590.29,"end":2593.59,"text":"但是他的出租的件數是逐年在增加"},{"start":2593.59,"end":2597.09,"text":"他一直到114年的租金收入"},{"start":2597.09,"end":2598.9900000000002,"text":"已經超過370萬"},{"start":2599.09,"end":2599.9900000000002,"text":"那今年"},{"start":2599.9900000000002,"end":2601.8900000000003,"text":"他比110年的時候"},{"start":2601.8900000000003,"end":2605.59,"text":"他已經成長將近49.85%"},{"start":2605.59,"end":2606.9900000000002,"text":"的這個成長率"},{"start":2606.9900000000002,"end":2608.3900000000003,"text":"那到今年為"},{"start":2608.3900000000003,"end":2610.69,"text":"今年15年到5月為止"},{"start":2610.69,"end":2612.59,"text":"他的作品流通數"},{"start":2612.59,"end":2615.19,"text":"也已經到達679件次"},{"start":2615.3900000000003,"end":2617.29,"text":"那收入已經超過300萬"},{"start":2617.29,"end":2618.79,"text":"所以他是逐年在"},{"start":2618.79,"end":2619.8900000000003,"text":"逐步的增加"},{"start":2619.8900000000003,"end":2622.29,"text":"那他現在除了租貸之外"},{"start":2622.29,"end":2624.09,"text":"他也拓展很多的"},{"start":2624.09,"end":2625.69,"text":"跟企業的合作"},{"start":2625.69,"end":2626.89,"text":"像台積電"},{"start":2626.89,"end":2628.19,"text":"像台糖"},{"start":2628.19,"end":2631.29,"text":"像他跟鳥巫書店合作"},{"start":2631.29,"end":2635.49,"text":"辦這個藝術形式耀眼的概念展"},{"start":2635.49,"end":2638.29,"text":"然後也跟文資局合作辦展覽"},{"start":2638.29,"end":2640.89,"text":"那現在也跟高美館合作"},{"start":2640.89,"end":2643.39,"text":"辦他們的庫房的典藏展"},{"start":2643.39,"end":2644.29,"text":"所以"},{"start":2644.29,"end":2646.29,"text":"另外今年也在台中"},{"start":2646.29,"end":2648.49,"text":"參與台中藝博會的展出"},{"start":2648.49,"end":2650.99,"text":"那在藝博會上的反應也非常的好"},{"start":2651.1899999999996,"end":2652.79,"text":"所以謝謝委員的支持"},{"start":2652.79,"end":2654.39,"text":"我們會在三個月內"},{"start":2654.39,"end":2655.79,"text":"再補充資料給委員"},{"start":2655.79,"end":2656.29,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2657.11,"end":2659.11,"text":"其實我補充一下"},{"start":2660.2,"end":2661.1,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":2661.1,"end":2662.2,"text":"我稍微簡要的"},{"start":2662.2,"end":2662.7,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2662.7,"end":2664.2,"text":"謝謝文化部相關的"},{"start":2664.2,"end":2666.3999999999996,"text":"這個同仁官員的一些回覆"},{"start":2666.3999999999996,"end":2667.7999999999997,"text":"那"},{"start":2667.7999999999997,"end":2669.5,"text":"相關資料我們三個月內提出"},{"start":2669.5,"end":2672.2999999999997,"text":"那剛剛你有提到一個"},{"start":2672.2999999999997,"end":2673.2,"text":"這個補助"},{"start":2673.2,"end":2678.1,"text":"應該說購入的作品的作者的人次"},{"start":2678.1,"end":2679.5,"text":"是2000人次"},{"start":2679.5,"end":2682.3999999999996,"text":"那這個待之後稍微補充數據"},{"start":2682.3999999999996,"end":2683.2999999999997,"text":"過來的時候"},{"start":2683.2999999999997,"end":2685.3999999999996,"text":"希望不要只是人次"},{"start":2685.3999999999996,"end":2687.2999999999997,"text":"因為人次應該意思是說"},{"start":2687.2999999999997,"end":2688.8999999999996,"text":"同一個人買了10件"},{"start":2688.9,"end":2690.5,"text":"那就是10人次"},{"start":2690.5,"end":2692.4,"text":"那這個這樣子我們會看不出來"},{"start":2692.4,"end":2695.1,"text":"或許這個購入有過度集中"},{"start":2695.1,"end":2697.9,"text":"或者是希望能夠再分散的一個情況"},{"start":2697.9,"end":2699.9,"text":"那當然我想在這個購入的策略上"},{"start":2699.9,"end":2701.3,"text":"我們也尊重專業"},{"start":2701.3,"end":2702.6,"text":"不過我想相關的數據"},{"start":2702.6,"end":2705.4,"text":"我們也希望這個有比較完整的"},{"start":2705.4,"end":2708.3,"text":"因為如果都是以件次以人次"},{"start":2708.3,"end":2710.6,"text":"我們可能會沒有辦法評估"},{"start":2710.6,"end":2713,"text":"因為我想這個藝術銀行有其中一個目的"},{"start":2713,"end":2715.3,"text":"應該要更加廣泛平均的"},{"start":2715.3,"end":2717.1,"text":"讓每一個更多的藝術家"},{"start":2717.1,"end":2719.7,"text":"有更多這個均衡的機會"},{"start":2719.7,"end":2721.7,"text":"讓各種不同類型的藝術家"},{"start":2721.7,"end":2722.7,"text":"都有發展的機會"},{"start":2722.7,"end":2724.1,"text":"這個我們也一起來努力"},{"start":2724.1,"end":2725.6,"text":"謝謝謝謝回覆謝謝"},{"start":2728.92,"end":2729.42,"text":"好"},{"start":2730.03,"end":2732.03,"text":"那第二案改為主決議"},{"start":2732.03,"end":2734.4300000000003,"text":"我們其他的就"},{"start":2735.36,"end":2736.56,"text":"處理稅"},{"start":2736.56,"end":2738.36,"text":"稅入的部分"},{"start":2738.36,"end":2740.06,"text":"我們預算招列"},{"start":2740.06,"end":2741.46,"text":"稅入處理完畢"},{"start":2741.46,"end":2743.26,"text":"繼續處理稅出的提案"},{"start":2743.26,"end":2746.06,"text":"處理時以幕或結為單位"},{"start":2746.06,"end":2747.56,"text":"依序由各提案委員"},{"start":2747.56,"end":2749.36,"text":"先就提案的內容進行說明"},{"start":2749.36,"end":2750.86,"text":"再由機關代表與答覆"},{"start":2750.86,"end":2753.06,"text":"然後再以幕或結做成決議"},{"start":2753.06,"end":2754.56,"text":"現在處理"},{"start":2754.56,"end":2756.06,"text":"稅出部分第一項"},{"start":2756.06,"end":2758.06,"text":"文化部通案部分"},{"start":2758.06,"end":2760.1600000000003,"text":"提案案號第四案"},{"start":2760.1600000000003,"end":2760.86,"text":"文化部"},{"start":2764.71,"end":2765.91,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":2770.87,"end":2771.37,"text":"好"},{"start":2771.37,"end":2773.07,"text":"那委員不在的話"},{"start":2775.54,"end":2778.84,"text":"請問是新衛生隊是第幾款嗎"},{"start":2778.84,"end":2779.84,"text":"第四案"},{"start":2779.84,"end":2780.84,"text":"第四案OK"},{"start":2782.97,"end":2783.47,"text":"好"},{"start":2783.47,"end":2784.87,"text":"如果委員不在的話"},{"start":2784.87,"end":2786.87,"text":"那我們就預算招列"},{"start":2788.72,"end":2789.8199999999997,"text":"我們繼續往下進行"},{"start":2791.44,"end":2792.44,"text":"接著"},{"start":2792.44,"end":2794.44,"text":"我們處理第一項"},{"start":2794.44,"end":2795.94,"text":"文化部通案部分"},{"start":2795.94,"end":2797.2400000000002,"text":"派員出國計畫"},{"start":2797.2400000000002,"end":2798.44,"text":"提案案號第五案"},{"start":2805.84,"end":2806.84,"text":"蔡村總委員"},{"start":2806.84,"end":2808.04,"text":"請問一下今天是"},{"start":2808.04,"end":2808.94,"text":"只要是第一項的"},{"start":2808.94,"end":2810.34,"text":"我們就可以"},{"start":2810.34,"end":2811.44,"text":"舉手來發言嗎"},{"start":2811.44,"end":2812.34,"text":"今天的"},{"start":2812.34,"end":2816.2400000000002,"text":"正常我們是四到二十"},{"start":2816.2400000000002,"end":2817.84,"text":"但是因為"},{"start":2817.84,"end":2819.2400000000002,"text":"計畫別不一樣"},{"start":2819.2400000000002,"end":2820.7400000000002,"text":"所以議事單位"},{"start":2820.74,"end":2823.3399999999997,"text":"他們有稍微先區隔"},{"start":2823.3399999999997,"end":2823.8399999999997,"text":"好"},{"start":2823.8399999999997,"end":2824.64,"text":"那所以現在是"},{"start":2824.64,"end":2825.64,"text":"討論第二案嗎"},{"start":2825.64,"end":2826.64,"text":"第二案是不是"},{"start":2826.64,"end":2827.64,"text":"我知道"},{"start":2827.64,"end":2828.64,"text":"第五案"},{"start":2828.64,"end":2829.64,"text":"第五案"},{"start":2829.64,"end":2830.64,"text":"我知道委員"},{"start":2830.64,"end":2831.64,"text":"待會就是第六案"},{"start":2831.64,"end":2833.4399999999996,"text":"但我要再講一次"},{"start":2833.4399999999996,"end":2834.14,"text":"我們第一項"},{"start":2834.14,"end":2835.4399999999996,"text":"原本是第一項全部"},{"start":2835.4399999999996,"end":2836.9399999999996,"text":"四到"},{"start":2836.9399999999996,"end":2839.14,"text":"四到十六案要一起討論"},{"start":2839.14,"end":2841.4399999999996,"text":"但是因為他的計畫別不一樣"},{"start":2841.4399999999996,"end":2842.64,"text":"所以我們今天"},{"start":2842.64,"end":2843.9399999999996,"t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那個"},{"start":3352.09,"end":3353.09,"text":"我先講一下"},{"start":3353.09,"end":3354.09,"text":"等一下 等一下"},{"start":3354.09,"end":3356.09,"text":"一警委員有點名的話"},{"start":3356.09,"end":3358.09,"text":"待會就在這邊宣告"},{"start":3358.09,"end":3361.09,"text":"有點名我先宣告"},{"start":3361.09,"end":3363.09,"text":"我沒有說我要做決定"},{"start":3363.09,"end":3363.59,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":3366.89,"end":3368.5899999999997,"text":"那可以我發言了嗎"},{"start":3368.5899999999997,"end":3370.69,"text":"現在宣告有點名的話"},{"start":3370.69,"end":3372.49,"text":"其他委員就可以打破順序"},{"start":3374.46,"end":3375.96,"text":"就可以重新再來回覆"},{"start":3375.96,"end":3376.46,"text":"好"},{"start":3376.46,"end":3377.36,"text":"因為你點名他"},{"start":3377.36,"end":3378.36,"text":"你要讓他回覆啊"},{"start":3378.36,"end":3379.36,"text":"這個就是他的提案"},{"start":3379.36,"end":3380.1600000000003,"text":"我認證這個提案"},{"start":3380.1600000000003,"end":3381.36,"text":"請尊重主席啦"},{"start":3381.36,"end":3382.76,"text":"我說現在宣告"},{"start":3382.76,"end":3383.96,"text":"所以待會開始"},{"start":3384.84,"end":3386.04,"text":"那可以先讓我發言"},{"start":3386.04,"end":3386.6400000000003,"text":"當然可以啊"},{"start":3386.6400000000003,"end":3387.54,"text":"但是我要宣告"},{"start":3387.54,"end":3388.54,"text":"等我宣告完畢嘛"},{"start":3388.54,"end":3389.84,"text":"好 我等你等你"},{"start":3390.63,"end":3392.13,"text":"那你就不要點名嘛"},{"start":3392.13,"end":3393.83,"text":"你點名人家當然要回覆一下"},{"start":3393.83,"end":3394.63,"text":"民主討論嘛"},{"start":3395.51,"end":3396.51,"text":"國務卿委員"},{"start":3398.11,"end":3399.61,"text":"我想這個文創產業"},{"start":3399.61,"end":3401.11,"text":"或者是我們的國片"},{"start":3401.11,"end":3403.11,"text":"還有很多的獨立樂團"},{"start":3403.11,"end":3408.11,"text":"那影視是極度高度依賴宣傳的"},{"start":3408.11,"end":3411.11,"text":"那我舉個例子來講"},{"start":3411.11,"end":3413.11,"text":"像這樣子一個荒謬的一個提案"},{"start":3413.11,"end":3416.11,"text":"等於是文化殺手的一種提案"},{"start":3416.11,"end":3418.11,"text":"這要馬而豪又不給馬吃草"},{"start":3418.11,"end":3419.11,"text":"我舉例"},{"start":3419.11,"end":3421.11,"text":"這很像是你開了一間店"},{"start":3421.11,"end":3423.11,"text":"在偏遠的地區"},{"start":3423.11,"end":3426.11,"text":"然後你需要發傳單"},{"start":3426.11,"end":3427.11,"text":"你需要做廣告"},{"start":3427.11,"end":3429.11,"text":"你可能要去街訪領區"},{"start":3429.11,"end":3430.11,"text":"去跟人家拜託說"},{"start":3430.11,"end":3432.11,"text":"我這邊開了一家店"},{"start":3432.11,"end":3433.11,"text":"歡迎大家來"},{"start":3433.11,"end":3434.11,"text":"然後現在是說"},{"start":3434.11,"end":3436.11,"text":"你這些都不用做"},{"start":3436.11,"end":3437.11,"text":"你也不用發傳單"},{"start":3437.11,"end":3438.11,"text":"你也不用打廣告"},{"start":3438.11,"end":3440.11,"text":"你也不用去跟街訪領區講說"},{"start":3440.11,"end":3441.11,"text":"你開了一家店"},{"start":3441.11,"end":3442.11,"text":"你要打折什麼都不用"},{"start":3442.11,"end":3444.11,"text":"反正你店還活著啊"},{"start":3444.11,"end":3445.11,"text":"你店還開著啊"},{"start":3445.11,"end":3447.11,"text":"這是同樣的一種道理"},{"start":3447.11,"end":3449.11,"text":"我再舉另外一個例子"},{"start":3449.11,"end":3450.11,"text":"這有沒有點像說"},{"start":3450.11,"end":3452.11,"text":"你手機看起來還好好的啊"},{"start":3452.11,"end":3454.11,"text":"問題是我手機沒有"},{"start":3454.11,"end":3456.11,"text":"辦法對外連接啊"},{"start":3456.11,"end":3458.11,"text":"我手機只有最基本的功能"},{"start":3458.11,"end":3460.11,"text":"我連Wi-Fi的功能可能都壞掉"},{"start":3460.11,"end":3462.11,"text":"都沒有辦法做了"},{"start":3462.11,"end":3463.11,"text":"他說不會啊"},{"start":3463.11,"end":3464.11,"text":"你手機還好的啊"},{"start":3464.11,"end":3465.11,"text":"看起來還好的啊"},{"start":3465.11,"end":3466.11,"text":"不用嘛"},{"start":3466.11,"end":3468.11,"text":"不用再給你錢再去換手機嘛"},{"start":3468.11,"end":3471.11,"text":"這這麼荒謬的一個提案喔"},{"start":3471.11,"end":3473.11,"text":"我們一直不斷的在講"},{"start":3473.11,"end":3475.11,"text":"我們一直不斷的在講"},{"start":3475.11,"end":3478.11,"text":"台灣的影視產業是怎麼樣"},{"start":3478.11,"end":3480.11,"text":"辛辛苦苦走到現在"},{"start":3480.11,"end":3482.11,"text":"我每一次在我的地方"},{"start":3482.11,"end":3484.11,"text":"我都會在包場電影請大家走進戲院"},{"start":3484.11,"end":3486.11,"text":"去支持我們的國片"},{"start":3486.11,"end":3489.11,"text":"需要的就是這些宣傳嘛"},{"start":3489.11,"end":3491.11,"text":"我們要讓台灣的文化走出去"},{"start":3491.11,"end":3493.11,"text":"也是需要宣傳嘛"},{"start":3493.11,"end":3495.11,"text":"現在全部大筆一刪"},{"start":3496.25,"end":3498.25,"text":"變成文化殺手了耶"},{"start":3498.25,"end":3500.25,"text":"那很簡單嘛"},{"start":3500.25,"end":3501.25,"text":"我再舉一個例子"},{"start":3501.25,"end":3503.25,"text":"立委在立法院"},{"start":3503.74,"end":3504.74,"text":"好好的啊"},{"start":3504.74,"end":3505.74,"text":"活得好好的啊"},{"start":3506.32,"end":3507.32,"text":"乾脆都不要助理好了"},{"start":3507.32,"end":3509.32,"text":"反正你一個人也能活嘛"},{"start":3510.14,"end":3511.14,"text":"是這種道理嗎"},{"start":3512.6,"end":3514.6,"text":"不要這麼誇張啦"},{"start":3514.6,"end":3516.6,"text":"大家都坐在這裡"},{"start":3516.6,"end":3518.6,"text":"好好的在審預算"},{"start":3518.6,"end":3519.6,"text":"大家都坐在這裡"},{"start":3519.6,"end":3521.6,"text":"希望台灣的文化"},{"start":3521.6,"end":3523.6,"text":"能夠往外延伸"},{"start":3524.43,"end":3529.43,"text":"我們需要的就是這些業務的宣導費"},{"start":3530.52,"end":3532.52,"text":"我不想點名誰啦"},{"start":3532.8,"end":3535.8,"text":"但我真的要表達嚴重的抗議"},{"start":3535.8,"end":3537.8,"text":"我真的不知道全部砍"},{"start":3537.8,"end":3539.8,"text":"什麼叫做零元也能活"},{"start":3541.27,"end":3543.27,"text":"那你把助理都砍掉"},{"start":3543.27,"end":3545.27,"text":"你一個人也能好好的活在立法院啊"},{"start":3545.27,"end":3546.27,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":3546.76,"end":3547.76,"text":"這什麼道理啊"},{"start":3551.28,"end":3552.28,"text":"我是周美"},{"start":3555.8,"end":3557.8,"text":"好 科政委員要回答"},{"start":3561.42,"end":3564.42,"text":"好 那麼剛剛你聽了前面兩位委員的說明"},{"start":3564.42,"end":3565.42,"text":"我要講就是"},{"start":3565.42,"end":3568.42,"text":"我們台灣的文化沒有被世界看見嗎"},{"start":3568.42,"end":3571.42,"text":"去年的是大阪的博覽會"},{"start":3571.42,"end":3573.42,"text":"我們台灣的同胞去了多少人"},{"start":3573.42,"end":3576.42,"text":"我們沒有被人家看見嗎"},{"start":3576.42,"end":3580.42,"text":"這跟業務宣傳的這個沒宣費有什麼正相關"},{"start":3580.42,"end":3581.42,"text":"沒有正相關的"},{"start":3581.42,"end":3584.42,"text":"去年文化部一毛錢的沒宣費沒有"},{"start":3584.42,"end":3586.42,"text":"照樣做得很好啊"},{"start":3586.42,"end":3588.42,"text":"零元部長說的話"},{"start":3588.42,"end":3592.42,"text":"有被沒有被宣傳出去嗎"},{"start":3592.42,"end":3594.42,"text":"媒體沒有報導嗎"},{"start":3595.22,"end":3598.22,"text":"所以不要說什麼我們沒有被世界看見"},{"start":3598.22,"end":3600.22,"text":"台灣文化沒有被世界看見"},{"start":3600.22,"end":3601.22,"text":"那根本就扯謊"},{"start":3602.23,"end":3603.23,"text":"更何況"},{"start":3603.23,"end":3604.23,"text":"文化部"},{"start":3605.27,"end":3610.27,"text":"每年編了兩三百億的這個幾百數百億的經費"},{"start":3610.27,"end":3614.27,"text":"各個業務單位他們本身就可以去做"},{"start":3614.72,"end":3617.72,"text":"業務宣導就是透過各方式"},{"start":3617.72,"end":3620.72,"text":"開記者會發新聞稿"},{"start":3620.72,"end":3624.72,"text":"然後透過這種口碑的這個行銷都可以的"},{"start":3624.72,"end":3626.72,"text":"為什麼一定要"},{"start":3626.9,"end":3629.9,"text":"花錢去買廣告拍廣告"},{"start":3629.9,"end":3632.9,"text":"而且還把這個沒宣費給特定的媒體"},{"start":3636.37,"end":3638.37,"text":"我認為這個是沒有必要的"},{"start":3639.08,"end":3642.08,"text":"我今天在提案單裡面寫的清清楚楚"},{"start":3642.08,"end":3646.08,"text":"現在政府舉債四千多億是誰造成的"},{"start":3646.08,"end":3648.08,"text":"民進黨政府"},{"start":3648.41,"end":3650.41,"text":"左一個特別預算"},{"start":3650.41,"end":3651.41,"text":"右一個特別預算"},{"start":3652.48,"end":3654.48,"text":"這些都不是老百姓的錢嗎"},{"start":3655.86,"end":3658.86,"text":"政府公帑就應該要用在刀口上"},{"start":3659.65,"end":3661.65,"text":"我們不是文化殺手"},{"start":3661.65,"end":3663.65,"text":"我們是文化保護者"},{"start":3663.65,"end":3666.65,"text":"我們希望能夠把這些錢真的用在"},{"start":3666.65,"end":3669.65,"text":"給更多的文化事業的推廣上面"},{"start":3669.65,"end":3671.65,"text":"給更多的文化團體"},{"start":3673.68,"end":3675.68,"text":"而不是讓文化部自己"},{"start":3675.68,"end":3677.68,"text":"不好好去做自己的政策宣導"},{"start":3677.68,"end":3679.68,"text":"然後把這些錢"},{"start":3679.68,"end":3681.68,"text":"就是圖利給特定的電視台"},{"start":3681.68,"end":3683.68,"text":"特定的媒體"},{"start":3683.68,"end":3684.68,"text":"沒有必要"},{"start":3684.68,"end":3686.68,"text":"所以以去年的例子來講"},{"start":3686.68,"end":3688.68,"text":"文化部沒有沒宣費"},{"start":3688.68,"end":3691.68,"text":"照樣可以做業務宣導"},{"start":3691.68,"end":3693.68,"text":"文化傳播"},{"start":3693.68,"end":3696.68,"text":"因此今年的這筆錢我堅持一定要全刪"},{"start":3696.68,"end":3699.68,"text":"沒有必要浪費這個沒宣費"},{"start":3704.81,"end":3706.81,"text":"好來,羅志祥委員"},{"start":3707.6,"end":3709.6,"text":"你要講了"},{"start":3709.57,"end":3711.57,"text":"喔哈"},{"start":3710.72,"end":3712.72,"text":"羅志祥委員"},{"start":3713.47,"end":3717.47,"text":"其實我覺得文化部確實還蠻需要宣傳經費的"},{"start":3717.47,"end":3719.47,"text":"應該是非常需要"},{"start":3719.47,"end":3721.47,"text":"宣傳什麼性侵蟒小孩"},{"start":3721.47,"end":3723.47,"text":"應該是蠻需要宣傳的"},{"start":3723.47,"end":3725.47,"text":"那宣傳怎麼樣"},{"start":3725.47,"end":3727.47,"text":"在我們所有的"},{"start":3727.47,"end":3731.47,"text":"全國的影視創作團隊"},{"start":3731.47,"end":3733.47,"text":"都這麼缺公帑的時候"},{"start":3733.47,"end":3735.47,"text":"缺國家資源的依註的時候"},{"start":3735.47,"end":3737.47,"text":"光一部功夫"},{"start":3737.47,"end":3740.47,"text":"就可以補助1億5千萬"},{"start":3740.47,"end":3742.47,"text":"所以這麼好的一個單位"},{"start":3742.47,"end":3744.47,"text":"錢這麼多"},{"start":3744.47,"end":3746.47,"text":"難怪我今天看到汪小林委員"},{"start":3746.47,"end":3748.47,"text":"他的提案要全部刪除"},{"start":3748.47,"end":3750.47,"text":"關鍵在哪裡"},{"start":3750.47,"end":3753.47,"text":"不用隨便扣人家什麼愚蠢的帽子"},{"start":3753.47,"end":3756.47,"text":"也不要扣人家什麼境外勢力的帽子"},{"start":3756.47,"end":3758.47,"text":"我覺得文化部到現在為止"},{"start":3758.47,"end":3761.47,"text":"針對我們這一個過程當中"},{"start":3761.47,"end":3763.47,"text":"我們提出來很多的事情"},{"start":3763.47,"end":3765.47,"text":"文化部到底"},{"start":3765.47,"end":3767.47,"text":"他有沒有著眼"},{"start":3767.67,"end":3769.67,"text":"自己本業的宣傳"},{"start":3769.67,"end":3772.67,"text":"公平的來使用政府的預算"},{"start":3772.67,"end":3775.67,"text":"汪小林委員提的一樣是個道理啊"},{"start":3775.67,"end":3777.67,"text":"一樣是個道理啊"},{"start":3778.18,"end":3780.18,"text":"即便說文宣費"},{"start":3780.18,"end":3782.18,"text":"今天在汪小林的提案當中"},{"start":3782.18,"end":3784.18,"text":"把它全刪"},{"start":3784.18,"end":3786.18,"text":"但是汪小林委員也指出"},{"start":3786.18,"end":3788.18,"text":"看起來文化部"},{"start":3788.18,"end":3790.18,"text":"也沒有妨礙文化部今天"},{"start":3790.18,"end":3792.18,"text":"1億5千萬的補助"},{"start":3792.18,"end":3794.18,"text":"也沒有妨礙文化部今天大力的宣揚"},{"start":3794.18,"end":3796.18,"text":"鼓勵大家性侵毛小孩"},{"start":3796.63,"end":3798.63,"text":"完全沒影響嘛"},{"start":3798.63,"end":3800.63,"text":"業績這麼好啊"},{"start":3800.63,"end":3802.63,"text":"所以呢今天汪小林提案"},{"start":3802.63,"end":3804.63,"text":"他當然有他的道理啊"},{"start":3804.63,"end":3806.63,"text":"那我這邊也講我的提案"},{"start":3806.63,"end":3808.63,"text":"我的提案是"},{"start":3807.71,"end":3810.71,"text":"這個按照立法院預算中心的指出"},{"start":3810.71,"end":3812.71,"text":"115年度"},{"start":3812.71,"end":3815.71,"text":"沒宣費當中全球佈局策略"},{"start":3815.71,"end":3818.71,"text":"推展計畫國際跟兩岸區域佈局計畫"},{"start":3818.71,"end":3820.71,"text":"工作內容重疊"},{"start":3820.71,"end":3822.71,"text":"那加上5年來"},{"start":3822.71,"end":3825.71,"text":"文化部的沒宣費一直在增加"},{"start":3825.71,"end":3830.71,"text":"111年度是36039000元"},{"start":3830.71,"end":3832.71,"text":"那到現在"},{"start":3832.71,"end":3834.71,"text":"今年提出來是"},{"start":3834.71,"end":3836.71,"text":"4378萬元"},{"start":3836.71,"end":3838.71,"text":"那考量文化部"},{"start":3838.71,"end":3840.71,"text":"這個過去的"},{"start":3840.71,"end":3842.71,"text":"所有的一些宣傳的表現"},{"start":3842.71,"end":3844.71,"text":"那我認為說依照"},{"start":3844.71,"end":3846.71,"text":"行政院主計處的"},{"start":3846.71,"end":3848.71,"text":"預算編制作業經濟措施"},{"start":3848.71,"end":3850.71,"text":"應該要從成本效益"},{"start":3850.71,"end":3852.71,"text":"的觀點全盤思考"},{"start":3852.71,"end":3854.71,"text":"來檢討它的必要性跟合理性"},{"start":3854.71,"end":3856.71,"text":"來檢討它的必要性跟合理性"},{"start":3856.71,"end":3858.71,"text":"減少不經濟的支出"},{"start":3858.71,"end":3860.71,"text":"各個國家現在"},{"start":3860.71,"end":3862.71,"text":"財政上也應該要相當的節約"},{"start":3862.71,"end":3864.71,"text":"所以依節約原則我的提案是"},{"start":3864.71,"end":3866.71,"text":"減略2500萬"},{"start":3866.71,"end":3868.71,"text":"我最後還是要回頭一句話啦"},{"start":3870.64,"end":3872.64,"text":"這預算討論大家就各憑己見"},{"start":3872.64,"end":3874.64,"text":"去提出意見"},{"start":3874.64,"end":3876.64,"text":"不會是每一個"},{"start":3876.64,"end":3878.64,"text":"不會哪一個意見是完全沒有它的理由"},{"start":3878.64,"end":3880.64,"text":"那在這邊相互尊重"},{"start":3880.64,"end":3882.64,"text":"不要動不動就扣人家什麼"},{"start":3882.64,"end":3884.64,"text":"愚蠢境外勢力的帽子"},{"start":3884.64,"end":3886.64,"text":"好好的討論"},{"start":3886.64,"end":3888.64,"text":"這樣子才是預算的專業"},{"start":3888.64,"end":3890.64,"text":"以上"},{"start":3889.9,"end":3891.9,"text":"柯政委員"},{"start":3912.09,"end":3914.09,"text":"目前還沒有動"},{"start":3914.09,"end":3916.09,"text":"目前還沒有去動"},{"start":3918.57,"end":3920.57,"text":"對因為已經到下半年度了"},{"start":3920.57,"end":3922.57,"text":"所以目前是沒有動"},{"start":3922.57,"end":3924.57,"text":"因為我那時候所提出來有"},{"start":3924.57,"end":3926.57,"text":"有簡略但是文化部有來跟我討"},{"start":3926.57,"end":3928.57,"text":"有來跟我解釋"},{"start":3928.57,"end":3930.57,"text":"像是你們剛剛結束了這些金曲獎"},{"start":3930.57,"end":3932.57,"text":"我還是要說金曲獎這次辦得還蠻成功的"},{"start":3932.57,"end":3934.57,"text":"還有金鐘獎"},{"start":3934.57,"end":3936.57,"text":"的實際的一個支出"},{"start":3936.57,"end":3938.57,"text":"你們都把它當作是這個沒宣費"},{"start":3938.57,"end":3940.57,"text":"你們都把它當作是沒宣費"},{"start":3940.57,"end":3942.57,"text":"在這個裡面來說"},{"start":3942.57,"end":3944.57,"text":"所以如果說我個人"},{"start":3944.57,"end":3946.57,"text":"真的覺得我們就是來討論"},{"start":3946.57,"end":3948.57,"text":"我覺得大家捍衛自己的預算的話"},{"start":3948.57,"end":3950.57,"text":"應該列入清單像已經金曲獎"},{"start":3950.57,"end":3952.57,"text":"金鐘獎這個金馬獎"},{"start":3952.57,"end":3954.57,"text":"這三金我想在場的委員"},{"start":3954.57,"end":3956.57,"text":"在這一塊當中其實是全力"},{"start":3956.57,"end":3958.57,"text":"來支持的那如果這些都是放"},{"start":3958.57,"end":3960.57,"text":"在你們今天這一欄當中"},{"start":3960.57,"end":3962.57,"text":"的一些的宣傳的話"},{"start":3962.57,"end":3964.57,"text":"你們該把它列個清單出來這才是你們"},{"start":3964.57,"end":3966.57,"text":"自己你哈啵啦啦放在這邊然後再加上"},{"start":3966.57,"end":3968.57,"text":"其實委員我覺得大家是可以同理"},{"start":3968.57,"end":3970.57,"text":"因為委員有很多"},{"start":3970.57,"end":3972.57,"text":"在過去當中真的在"},{"start":3972.57,"end":3974.57,"text":"發生這麼多一些政治事件當中"},{"start":3974.57,"end":3976.57,"text":"那有很多的團體裡面"},{"start":3976.57,"end":3978.57,"text":"所用的經費是來自於文化部"},{"start":3978.57,"end":3980.57,"text":"而且文化部裡面大家認為是不符合"},{"start":3980.57,"end":3982.57,"text":"我們所認知的一些的預算"},{"start":3982.57,"end":3984.57,"text":"跟宣傳所以以至於"},{"start":3984.57,"end":3986.57,"text":"這些的情緒都會在這一次的"},{"start":3986.57,"end":3988.57,"text":"這個部分裡面來做一個"},{"start":3988.57,"end":3990.57,"text":"書發來做一個處理"},{"start":3990.57,"end":3992.57,"text":"所以我認為你們如果說"},{"start":3992.57,"end":3994.57,"text":"是在這個我剛所重視的"},{"start":3994.57,"end":3996.57,"text":"這個金曲金鐘這個部分也"},{"start":3996.57,"end":3998.57,"text":"在宣傳裡面也在你們這個部分裡面"},{"start":3998.57,"end":4000.57,"text":"列出清單哪些是實際的"},{"start":4000.57,"end":4002.57,"text":"業務支出然後你們對於"},{"start":4002.57,"end":4004.57,"text":"這個預算中心認為跟相對"},{"start":4004.57,"end":4006.57,"text":"過去幾年來中增加這麼多"},{"start":4006.57,"end":4008.57,"text":"我覺得應該有一個很完整的說明"},{"start":4008.57,"end":4010.57,"text":"那這個說明完之後然後大家"},{"start":4010.57,"end":4012.57,"text":"來看看這個預算到底怎麼處理我覺得這"},{"start":4012.57,"end":4014.57,"text":"才是一個比較合理的討論啦"},{"start":4017.67,"end":4018.17,"text":"好"},{"start":4019.43,"end":4019.93,"text":"五分一二元"},{"start":4023.75,"end":4025.75,"text":"我這邊要呼籲客製衛員"},{"start":4025.75,"end":4027.75,"text":"因為這個文化部的美宣費"},{"start":4027.75,"end":4029.75,"text":"之前我有跟你們關心"},{"start":4029.75,"end":4031.75,"text":"因為去年被刪到零之後"},{"start":4031.75,"end":4033.75,"text":"就是我很關注一個就是我們的"},{"start":4033.75,"end":4035.75,"text":"這個書展書展的宣傳"},{"start":4035.75,"end":4037.75,"text":"馬上就收到影響"},{"start":4037.75,"end":4039.75,"text":"所以那時候必須要有主辦單位他們"},{"start":4039.75,"end":4041.75,"text":"要來自籌另外去年"},{"start":4041.75,"end":4043.75,"text":"在大阪的這個世博"},{"start":4043.75,"end":4045.75,"text":"我們有一個文化台灣的這個展演"},{"start":4045.75,"end":4047.75,"text":"那當時因為美宣費被刪到"},{"start":4047.75,"end":4049.75,"text":"零同樣的是沒有辦法"},{"start":4049.75,"end":4051.75,"text":"在國外宣傳所以後來"},{"start":4051.75,"end":4053.75,"text":"也是由民間的藝文團體來發起"},{"start":4053.75,"end":4055.75,"text":"這個募資才有辦法"},{"start":4055.75,"end":4057.75,"text":"去支應然後另外因為我"},{"start":4057.75,"end":4059.75,"text":"一直很關切也希望文化部一定要"},{"start":4059.75,"end":4061.75,"text":"去加強的就是針對"},{"start":4061.75,"end":4063.75,"text":"打擊黃牛票這個"},{"start":4063.75,"end":4065.75,"text":"行為的宣導那過去"},{"start":4065.75,"end":4067.75,"text":"這個費用也是放在美宣"},{"start":4067.75,"end":4069.75,"text":"費裡面那去年"},{"start":4069.75,"end":4071.75,"text":"以去年來講我就覺得你們的宣傳"},{"start":4071.75,"end":4073.75,"text":"非常的不足這個部分我覺得"},{"start":4073.75,"end":4075.75,"text":"都要去加強那還有另外"},{"start":4075.75,"end":4077.75,"text":"一個案件是我很關切是台北"},{"start":4077.75,"end":4079.75,"text":"時裝週這個是文化"},{"start":4079.75,"end":4081.75,"text":"部跟台北市文化局一起來合作"},{"start":4081.75,"end":4083.75,"text":"舉辦的那過去沒宣費"},{"start":4083.75,"end":4085.75,"text":"也要來宣傳台北時裝"},{"start":4085.75,"end":4087.75,"text":"週啊我覺得台北時裝週"},{"start":4087.75,"end":4089.75,"text":"我們這幾年的宣傳明顯的"},{"start":4089.75,"end":4091.75,"text":"我覺得還不夠"},{"start":4091.75,"end":4093.75,"text":"多很多台北的年輕人是關心"},{"start":4093.75,"end":4095.75,"text":"時尚卻不知道這個活動"},{"start":4095.75,"end":4097.75,"text":"所以呢我在今天的這個"},{"start":4097.75,"end":4099.75,"text":"說明裡面我覺得也是"},{"start":4099.75,"end":4101.75,"text":"不夠清楚我希望文化部要把"},{"start":4101.75,"end":4103.75,"text":"我們沒宣費實際在使用"},{"start":4103.75,"end":4105.75,"text":"的這個項目一一的"},{"start":4105.75,"end":4107.75,"text":"把它羅列出來那我想"},{"start":4107.75,"end":4109.75,"text":"對預算的監督這當然是"},{"start":4109.75,"end":4111.75,"text":"立委的職權"},{"start":4112.61,"end":4114.61,"text":"可以來去刪減或者是凍結"},{"start":4114.61,"end":4116.61,"text":"可是如果當刪除像沒"},{"start":4116.61,"end":4118.61,"text":"宣費這一筆要把它刪除到"},{"start":4118.61,"end":4120.61,"text":"零我覺得有點不合"},{"start":4120.61,"end":4122.61,"text":"比例啦我還是希望說我們可以"},{"start":4122.61,"end":4124.61,"text":"具體的來討論就是到底說"},{"start":4124.61,"end":4126.61,"text":"針對哪一個宣傳的項目"},{"start":4126.61,"end":4128.61,"text":"我們是認為這個不需要"},{"start":4128.61,"end":4130.61,"text":"第一個你認為他不需要去宣傳嗎"},{"start":4130.61,"end":4132.61,"text":"或第二個覺得不需要花"},{"start":4132.61,"end":4134.61,"text":"那麼多的經費宣傳那這可以"},{"start":4134.61,"end":4136.61,"text":"討論可是如果說我們現在都沒有"},{"start":4136.61,"end":4138.61,"text":"針對項目而是用通"},{"start":4138.61,"end":4140.61,"text":"刪的方式通刪的方式"},{"start":4140.61,"end":4142.61,"text":"我會覺得民眾也會不清楚"},{"start":4142.61,"end":4144.61,"text":"說到底立法院在審議"},{"start":4144.61,"end":4146.61,"text":"的過程是基於什麼樣的理由"},{"start":4146.61,"end":4148.61,"text":"要把文化部的沒宣費刪除到零"},{"start":4148.61,"end":4150.61,"text":"所以在這一點我還是希望"},{"start":4150.61,"end":4152.61,"text":"在委員會可以充分的來討論"},{"start":4152.61,"end":4154.61,"text":"那也請文化部要可能提出具體"},{"start":4154.61,"end":4156.61,"text":"的說明因為我個人是認為"},{"start":4156.61,"end":4158.61,"text":"我剛剛講了這些幾個文化"},{"start":4158.61,"end":4160.61,"text":"業務的宣傳是很重要"},{"start":4160.61,"end":4162.61,"text":"因為主要是我們不是"},{"start":4162.61,"end":4164.61,"text":"只要辦活動而已我們要面對"},{"start":4164.61,"end":4166.61,"text":"台灣的群眾我們也要面對"},{"start":4166.61,"end":4168.61,"text":"國際的市場這些都需要"},{"start":4168.61,"end":4170.61,"text":"靠宣傳讓更多人知道這些資訊"},{"start":4170.61,"end":4172.61,"text":"從而更加的認識台灣的文化"},{"start":4172.61,"end":4174.61,"text":"這個要拜託文化部"},{"start":4174.61,"end":4176.61,"text":"能夠再具體的把每一個項目說明清楚"},{"start":4183.39,"end":4185.39,"text":"待會麻煩文化部具體的說明"},{"start":4185.39,"end":4187.39,"text":"包括柯志恩委員也有提到"},{"start":4187.39,"end":4189.39,"text":"金曲相關的獎"},{"start":4189.39,"end":4191.39,"text":"我們都已經辦完活動了"},{"start":4191.39,"end":4193.39,"text":"可是剛剛你們又說沒宣費"},{"start":4193.39,"end":4197.39,"text":"沒有做任何的使用"},{"start":4197.39,"end":4199.39,"text":"金曲獎也都辦完了"},{"start":4199.39,"end":4201.39,"text":"所以到底是怎麼一回事你還要不要說明清楚"},{"start":4201.39,"end":4203.39,"text":"麻煩待會統一回答"},{"start":4203.39,"end":4205.39,"text":"再來葉原子委員"},{"start":4209.28,"end":4211.28,"text":"我覺得因為沒宣費這樣狂烈"},{"start":4211.28,"end":4213.28,"text":"確實大家會不知道說到底要用在哪裡"},{"start":4213.28,"end":4215.28,"text":"那當然文化部的業務非常多"},{"start":4215.28,"end":4217.28,"text":"包括像柯志恩委員剛剛講金曲獎"},{"start":4217.28,"end":4219.28,"text":"還有吳佩儀委員講的"},{"start":4219.28,"end":4221.28,"text":"有書展或是打黃牛等等"},{"start":4221.28,"end":4223.28,"text":"那因為這也都有各自的計畫"},{"start":4223.28,"end":4225.28,"text":"也有可能各自計畫裡面"},{"start":4225.28,"end":4227.28,"text":"也有各自的沒宣費"},{"start":4227.28,"end":4229.28,"text":"例如說他一大筆錢在做金曲獎"},{"start":4229.28,"end":4231.28,"text":"那裡面做金曲獎的計畫裡面"},{"start":4231.28,"end":4233.28,"text":"又有一部分是要去做金曲獎的宣傳"},{"start":4233.28,"end":4235.28,"text":"同樣的比如說"},{"start":4235.28,"end":4237.28,"text":"書展的相關的活動裡面"},{"start":4237.28,"end":4239.28,"text":"又有沒宣費藏在書展裡面的活動"},{"start":4239.28,"end":4241.28,"text":"所以我覺得"},{"start":4241.28,"end":4243.28,"text":"是有必要說明這一整筆沒宣費"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Plus"},{"start":4802.07,"end":4804.07,"text":"部分藍綠的委員都覺得Taiwan Plus"},{"start":4804.07,"end":4806.07,"text":"做得很差"},{"start":4806.07,"end":4808.07,"text":"一開始都提了很多案子都要刪很多"},{"start":4808.07,"end":4810.07,"text":"可是後來Taiwan Plus就解釋啊"},{"start":4810.07,"end":4812.07,"text":"然後什麼的"},{"start":4812.07,"end":4814.07,"text":"我們後來也都給他機會"},{"start":4814.07,"end":4816.07,"text":"我真的很不喜歡看到這種"},{"start":4816.07,"end":4818.07,"text":"大家就事論事的討論預算"},{"start":4818.07,"end":4820.07,"text":"然後那種紅帽子就扣上來"},{"start":4820.07,"end":4822.07,"text":"然後讓大家不敢去"},{"start":4822.07,"end":4824.07,"text":"發表我們監督的聲音"},{"start":4824.07,"end":4826.07,"text":"我真的覺得非常遺憾"},{"start":4826.07,"end":4828.07,"text":"我認為啦大家就就事論事"},{"start":4828.07,"end":4830.07,"text":"因為這筆錢看起來就是"},{"start":4830.07,"end":4832.07,"text":"比較籠統"},{"start":4832.07,"end":4834.07,"text":"還有文化部的各項計畫"},{"start":4834.07,"end":4836.07,"text":"實際上計畫裡面也包含有沒宣費"},{"start":4836.07,"end":4838.07,"text":"所以就請文化部說明一下"},{"start":4838.07,"end":4840.07,"text":"這個沒宣他到底要怎麼"},{"start":4840.07,"end":4842.07,"text":"使用其實如果說"},{"start":4842.07,"end":4844.07,"text":"他的使用大家覺得OK"},{"start":4844.07,"end":4846.07,"text":"然後有必要"},{"start":4846.07,"end":4848.07,"text":"而且沒有亂花那就通過啊"},{"start":4848.07,"end":4850.07,"text":"對不對那如果有亂編"},{"start":4850.07,"end":4852.07,"text":"就刪掉啊這不就是立法委員的職責嗎"},{"start":4852.07,"end":4854.07,"text":"所以真的"},{"start":4854.07,"end":4856.07,"text":"不要什麼事情都無限上綱啦"},{"start":4856.07,"end":4858.07,"text":"都中共同路人以前我們在討論"},{"start":4858.07,"end":4860.07,"text":"合管法的時候說那時候"},{"start":4860.07,"end":4862.07,"text":"只是讓核三研議"},{"start":4862.07,"end":4864.07,"text":"有法規鬆綁的機會"},{"start":4864.07,"end":4866.07,"text":"然後民進黨就罵我們是要給老共"},{"start":4866.07,"end":4868.07,"text":"公台開後門就是"},{"start":4868.07,"end":4870.07,"text":"我們又變中共同路人了"},{"start":4870.07,"end":4872.07,"text":"那經德總統最後肯定我們在野黨"},{"start":4872.07,"end":4874.07,"text":"說在野黨通過合管法"},{"start":4875.32,"end":4877.32,"text":"奇怪了民進黨立委說我們是中共同路人"},{"start":4877.32,"end":4879.32,"text":"賴總統都肯定我們"},{"start":4879.32,"end":4881.32,"text":"難道賴總統肯定中共同路人嗎"},{"start":4881.32,"end":4883.32,"text":"所以這種意識形態可不可以在"},{"start":4883.32,"end":4885.32,"text":"至少在我們教育文化委員會"},{"start":4885.32,"end":4887.32,"text":"好不好那個"},{"start":4887.32,"end":4889.32,"text":"至少在我們教育文化委員會好不好"},{"start":4889.32,"end":4891.32,"text":"大家不要一直搞意識形態"},{"start":4891.32,"end":4893.32,"text":"我們就就事論事"},{"start":4893.32,"end":4895.32,"text":"好好的審預算謝謝"},{"start":4896.31,"end":4898.31,"text":"好"},{"start":4898.31,"end":4900.31,"text":"柯正委員因為剛翁曉玲委員"},{"start":4900.31,"end":4902.31,"text":"在你前面你是最後"},{"start":4902.31,"end":4904.31,"text":"我希望因為這個案子"},{"start":4904.31,"end":4906.31,"text":"其實"},{"start":4906.31,"end":4908.31,"text":"聽了剛剛大家很多的意見"},{"start":4908.31,"end":4910.31,"text":"我想待會討論也不會有什麼"},{"start":4910.31,"end":4912.31,"text":"具體的結果"},{"start":4912.31,"end":4914.31,"text":"是不是我們這個案就可以"},{"start":4914.31,"end":4916.31,"text":"保留宋協商"},{"start":4916.31,"end":4918.31,"text":"因為後面還有很多"},{"start":4918.31,"end":4920.31,"text":"文化部的預算案需要討論"},{"start":4920.31,"end":4922.31,"text":"所以希望說能夠"},{"start":4922.31,"end":4924.31,"text":"進一步處理謝謝"},{"start":4924.73,"end":4926.73,"text":"柯正委員"},{"start":4930.98,"end":4932.98,"text":"我只是呼應那個葉原志委員的說法"},{"start":4932.98,"end":4934.98,"text":"我們既然要讓這個預算"},{"start":4934.98,"end":4936.98,"text":"趕快過去然後我們就是"},{"start":4936.98,"end":4938.98,"text":"聚焦來討論我覺得太多"},{"start":4938.98,"end":4940.98,"text":"委員有太多擴大性的解讀了"},{"start":4940.98,"end":4942.98,"text":"好好的審一個預算"},{"start":4942.98,"end":4944.98,"text":"四三七八這個預算中心"},{"start":4944.98,"end":4946.98,"text":"說跟過去比較起來真的是"},{"start":4946.98,"end":4948.98,"text":"比較多所以我們就要求"},{"start":4948.98,"end":4950.98,"text":"是否能夠把它條列"},{"start":4950.98,"end":4952.98,"text":"清楚我不懂為什麼要"},{"start":4952.98,"end":4954.98,"text":"延伸到說又是跟中共"},{"start":4954.98,"end":4956.98,"text":"然後又是中共昨天通過什麼法"},{"start":4956.98,"end":4958.98,"text":"對不起中國大陸跟我們"},{"start":4958.98,"end":4960.98,"text":"完全無關我們今天審中華民國的預算"},{"start":4960.98,"end":4962.98,"text":"我管中國大陸做些什麼事情"},{"start":4962.98,"end":4964.98,"text":"我們又剛剛沒有跟他串聯"},{"start":4964.98,"end":4966.98,"text":"我們又剛剛沒有任何的溝通"},{"start":4966.98,"end":4968.98,"text":"什麼事情都要扯上中國大陸"},{"start":4968.98,"end":4970.98,"text":"這是審預算的一個標準嗎"},{"start":4970.98,"end":4972.98,"text":"所以說就很清楚的告訴"},{"start":4972.98,"end":4974.98,"text":"我們到底這些四千三百多萬"},{"start":4977.17,"end":4979.17,"text":"到底是做到哪一些的部分"},{"start":4979.17,"end":4981.17,"text":"精取精忠我們所在乎的"},{"start":4981.17,"end":4983.17,"text":"這個部分納入這個地方"},{"start":4983.17,"end":4985.17,"text":"那個所謂的那個"},{"start":4985.17,"end":4987.17,"text":"剛剛佩儀所講的這個"},{"start":4987.17,"end":4989.17,"text":"圖書"},{"start":4989.17,"end":4991.17,"text":"書展的這個部分是不是也放在這個"},{"start":4991.17,"end":4993.17,"text":"地方你們在國外的這個部分"},{"start":4993.17,"end":4995.17,"text":"你們meta event到底花了多少時間"},{"start":4995.17,"end":4997.17,"text":"把它條列清楚我們"},{"start":4997.17,"end":4999.17,"text":"就可以知道到底有沒有必要"},{"start":4999.17,"end":5001.17,"text":"要來審這筆預算不要"},{"start":5001.17,"end":5003.17,"text":"動不動就去講那多多我們剛剛"},{"start":5003.17,"end":5005.17,"text":"完全不熟剛剛擺個不熟的部分"},{"start":5005.17,"end":5007.17,"text":"完全放在我們的身上"},{"start":5007.17,"end":5009.17,"text":"你要我們怎麼回應這完全不是審預算的"},{"start":5009.17,"end":5011.17,"text":"態度我都很生氣了趕快"},{"start":5011.17,"end":5013.17,"text":"來看看四千三百多萬到底"},{"start":5013.17,"end":5015.17,"text":"需不需要了"},{"start":5015.14,"end":5017.14,"text":"換我講了"},{"start":5017.14,"end":5019.14,"text":"我都沒發言"},{"start":5018.26,"end":5020.26,"text":"好"},{"start":5020.4,"end":5022.4,"text":"啊"},{"start":5024.35,"end":5026.35,"text":"比起吳思堯委員"},{"start":5026.35,"end":5028.35,"text":"這樣子的一個"},{"start":5028.35,"end":5030.35,"text":"大方向論述"},{"start":5030.35,"end":5032.35,"text":"我都還是"},{"start":5032.35,"end":5034.35,"text":"可以默默的去聽"},{"start":5034.35,"end":5036.35,"text":"聽曲"},{"start":5035.69,"end":5037.69,"text":"但是我還是再一次懇切"},{"start":5037.69,"end":5039.69,"text":"呼籲"},{"start":5038.81,"end":5040.81,"text":"林奕景委員"},{"start":5040.81,"end":5042.81,"text":"因為多次的用點名"},{"start":5042.81,"end":5044.81,"text":"然後人身攻擊"},{"start":5044.81,"end":5046.81,"text":"從前陣子"},{"start":5046.81,"end":5048.81,"text":"一直叫我羅公子"},{"start":5048.81,"end":5050.81,"text":"一直要我去讀書"},{"start":5050.81,"end":5052.81,"text":"我還是在這邊"},{"start":5052.81,"end":5054.81,"text":"用"},{"start":5054.81,"end":5056.81,"text":"畢竟我是你比較晚進的"},{"start":5056.81,"end":5058.81,"text":"學弟"},{"start":5058.81,"end":5060.81,"text":"我還是拜託不要用這樣子的模式"},{"start":5060.81,"end":5062.81,"text":"林奕景委員你也有"},{"start":5062.81,"end":5064.81,"text":"你的軟肋我不想在委員會"},{"start":5064.81,"end":5066.81,"text":"給你出糗"},{"start":5066.81,"end":5068.81,"text":"如果你要這樣子多次"},{"start":5068.81,"end":5070.81,"text":"用扣帽子"},{"start":5070.81,"end":5072.81,"text":"人身攻擊"},{"start":5072.81,"end":5074.81,"text":"然後愚蠢什麼"},{"start":5074.81,"end":5076.81,"text":"這樣子的一個說法"},{"start":5076.81,"end":5078.81,"text":"那我想後面對於你最基本的"},{"start":5078.81,"end":5080.81,"text":"尊重"},{"start":5080.81,"end":5082.81,"text":"我也大可不必"},{"start":5082.55,"end":5086.55,"text":"我想我們都是中華民國的立法委員"},{"start":5087.92,"end":5089.92,"text":"那之前你也有提案"},{"start":5089.92,"end":5091.92,"text":"兩岸人民"},{"start":5091.92,"end":5092.92,"text":"條例"},{"start":5092.92,"end":5094.92,"text":"那你也立刻把它拖掉了"},{"start":5094.92,"end":5096.92,"text":"有機會你可以成為台灣國的"},{"start":5096.92,"end":5097.92,"text":"立委"},{"start":5097.92,"end":5099.92,"text":"那很難過你放棄了"},{"start":5099.92,"end":5101.92,"text":"所以現在你跟我還是一樣是中華民國"},{"start":5101.92,"end":5103.92,"text":"那"},{"start":5103.92,"end":5105.92,"text":"回應"},{"start":5105.29,"end":5107.29,"text":"國語行委員後待會你也可以再舉手沒關係"},{"start":5107.29,"end":5109.29,"text":"你還有很多"},{"start":5109.29,"end":5111.29,"text":"軟肋啦但是尊重一點"},{"start":5111.29,"end":5113.29,"text":"你要一直人身攻擊別人的話"},{"start":5113.29,"end":5115.29,"text":"那大家就來好好的"},{"start":5115.29,"end":5117.29,"text":"就事認識討論那剛國語行委員"},{"start":5117.29,"end":5119.29,"text":"跟這一個吳思堯委員"},{"start":5119.29,"end":5121.29,"text":"所提到的是什麼樣"},{"start":5121.29,"end":5123.29,"text":"的一個負面"},{"start":5123.29,"end":5125.29,"text":"宣傳是什麼樣"},{"start":5125.29,"end":5127.29,"text":"的一個不好的補助"},{"start":5127.29,"end":5129.29,"text":"我想人民"},{"start":5129.29,"end":5131.29,"text":"心中是有一把尺"},{"start":5131.29,"end":5133.29,"text":"我們當然支持金曲獎"},{"start":5133.29,"end":5135.29,"text":"我們當然支持好的文化策展"},{"start":5135.29,"end":5137.29,"text":"但是"},{"start":5137.29,"end":5139.29,"text":"不要忘記"},{"start":5139.29,"end":5141.29,"text":"我們還是有相關的一些"},{"start":5141.77,"end":5143.77,"text":"上次每次我們都在討論的"},{"start":5144.44,"end":5146.44,"text":"這些"},{"start":5146.73,"end":5148.73,"text":"我們一直在講"},{"start":5148.42,"end":5150.42,"text":"文化部到底能不能講清楚"},{"start":5150.42,"end":5152.42,"text":"現階段每一個"},{"start":5152.42,"end":5154.42,"text":"他們的補助內容"},{"start":5154.42,"end":5156.42,"text":"包括上次我跟"},{"start":5156.42,"end":5158.42,"text":"羅志祥委員"},{"start":5157.55,"end":5159.55,"text":"我跟葉人之委員在講的"},{"start":5159.55,"end":5161.55,"text":"性情毛小孩的音樂"},{"start":5162.31,"end":5164.31,"text":"那有提到民利在募款"},{"start":5165.6,"end":5167.6,"text":"如果這些錢沒有去補助"},{"start":5167.6,"end":5169.6,"text":"這些"},{"start":5169.6,"end":5171.6,"text":"讓我們聽到不堪入耳的音樂"},{"start":5174.88,"end":5176.88,"text":"還有"},{"start":5176.13,"end":5178.13,"text":"這些特定的"},{"start":5178.61,"end":5180.61,"text":"給特定的廠商"},{"start":5180.61,"end":5182.61,"text":"民利會更加的"},{"start":5184.06,"end":5186.06,"text":"可以不用這麼的嚴謹"},{"start":5186.06,"end":5188.06,"text":"去募這麼多款"},{"start":5188.06,"end":5190.06,"text":"因為真正人民的納稅錢"},{"start":5190.06,"end":5192.06,"text":"花在了"},{"start":5192.93,"end":5194.93,"text":"我們共同的目標"},{"start":5195.77,"end":5197.77,"text":"所以"},{"start":5196.98,"end":5198.98,"text":"我們一直在講"},{"start":5198.98,"end":5200.98,"text":"我們現在是監督預算"},{"start":5200.98,"end":5202.98,"text":"我們現在是希望"},{"start":5202.98,"end":5204.98,"text":"預算能夠花在刀口上"},{"start":5204.98,"end":5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是"},{"start":5442.3,"end":5444.3,"text":"一個文化"},{"start":5444.3,"end":5446.3,"text":"抹除行為的制度化"},{"start":5447.83,"end":5449.83,"text":"這是一個惡法"},{"start":5449.83,"end":5451.83,"text":"將不同的文化認同"},{"start":5451.83,"end":5453.83,"text":"加以抹除"},{"start":5453.83,"end":5455.83,"text":"與以制度化的惡法"},{"start":5455.83,"end":5457.83,"text":"我要說的是"},{"start":5457.83,"end":5459.83,"text":"大家要思考"},{"start":5462.84,"end":5464.84,"text":"這一個當下"},{"start":5464.84,"end":5466.84,"text":"台灣要向世界傳達的"},{"start":5466.84,"end":5468.84,"text":"立場是什麼"},{"start":5468.84,"end":5470.84,"text":"難道是我們的國會"},{"start":5472.09,"end":5476.09,"text":"在刪減自己的文化外交的預算嗎"},{"start":5476.93,"end":5478.93,"text":"當世界各國在這個"},{"start":5478.93,"end":5480.93,"text":"惡法通過的當下用具體"},{"start":5480.93,"end":5482.93,"text":"的行動"},{"start":5482.93,"end":5484.93,"text":"歐洲議會也好大家用具體"},{"start":5484.93,"end":5486.93,"text":"的行動去反制的時候"},{"start":5486.93,"end":5488.93,"text":"台灣的國會在今天"},{"start":5488.93,"end":5490.93,"text":"審查文化預算確實"},{"start":5490.93,"end":5492.93,"text":"要刪減自己的文化預算"},{"start":5492.93,"end":5494.93,"text":"我要請大家思考這個"},{"start":5494.93,"end":5496.93,"text":"層面他不是只有"},{"start":5496.93,"end":5498.93,"text":"4738萬這個"},{"start":5498.93,"end":5500.93,"text":"數字歸為零"},{"start":5500.93,"end":5502.93,"text":"或是減列多少"},{"start":5502.93,"end":5504.93,"text":"他傳達的意義是"},{"start":5504.93,"end":5506.93,"text":"台灣的國會挺不挺自己的國家"},{"start":5506.93,"end":5508.93,"text":"做文化外交"},{"start":5510.24,"end":5512.24,"text":"還是"},{"start":5512.86,"end":5514.86,"text":"要來附和這種文化抹除的行為"},{"start":5517.55,"end":5519.55,"text":"不需要掩耳盜鈴"},{"start":5519.55,"end":5521.55,"text":"提案的委員"},{"start":5522.02,"end":5524.02,"text":"在外交部"},{"start":5524.02,"end":5526.02,"text":"也是同樣的理由"},{"start":5526.02,"end":5528.02,"text":"同樣的文字政府因亮入"},{"start":5528.02,"end":5530.02,"text":"為出蹲減公帑"},{"start":5530.02,"end":5532.02,"text":"共體時間避免"},{"start":5532.02,"end":5534.02,"text":"不必要的支出"},{"start":5534.02,"end":5536.02,"text":"沒宣費既非屬必要"},{"start":5536.02,"end":5538.02,"text":"的業務支出因因"},{"start":5538.02,"end":5540.02,"text":"考量政府財政狀況"},{"start":5540.02,"end":5542.02,"text":"而予以遵節同樣的理由"},{"start":5542.02,"end":5544.02,"text":"也放在刪減外交"},{"start":5544.02,"end":5546.02,"text":"部的沒宣費上"},{"start":5546.25,"end":5548.25,"text":"所以很多委員要說"},{"start":5549.46,"end":5551.46,"text":"不要扯到什麼主權議題"},{"start":5552.14,"end":5554.14,"text":"不需要掩耳盜鈴"},{"start":5555.62,"end":5557.62,"text":"不要敢做不敢當"},{"start":5559.18,"end":5561.18,"text":"剛剛我也希望"},{"start":5561.24,"end":5563.24,"text":"提案的委員對於哪些案子"},{"start":5563.24,"end":5565.24,"text":"補助腐爛你認為"},{"start":5565.24,"end":5567.24,"text":"哪些案子造成民眾負面評價"},{"start":5567.24,"end":5569.24,"text":"我也沒有聽到委員負責任"},{"start":5569.24,"end":5571.24,"text":"的列出你認為"},{"start":5571.24,"end":5573.24,"text":"合理的清單要刪減"},{"start":5573.24,"end":5575.24,"text":"哪些筆預算補助"},{"start":5575.24,"end":5577.24,"text":"腐爛哪些筆你認為不應當補"},{"start":5579.6,"end":5581.6,"text":"那如果這樣好啊我覺得"},{"start":5581.6,"end":5583.6,"text":"提案的委員也應當列出你的清單"},{"start":5583.6,"end":5585.6,"text":"讓大家來看看確實這個"},{"start":5585.6,"end":5587.6,"text":"可能不太妥當"},{"start":5587.6,"end":5589.6,"text":"我們可以理性討論"},{"start":5589.4,"end":5591.4,"text":"那現在委員一直要文化部"},{"start":5591.4,"end":5593.4,"text":"列出他們的細項補助也可以啊"},{"start":5593.4,"end":5595.4,"text":"但是提案的委員"},{"start":5595.4,"end":5597.4,"text":"是不是要負責任的"},{"start":5597.4,"end":5599.4,"text":"你指涉別人補助不公"},{"start":5599.4,"end":5601.4,"text":"補助腐爛是什麼內容呢"},{"start":5603.96,"end":5605.96,"text":"到底是哪些項目呢"},{"start":5605.96,"end":5607.96,"text":"你要刪減預算要有所依據啊"},{"start":5609.95,"end":5611.95,"text":"所以說我認為"},{"start":5611.95,"end":5613.95,"text":"這一筆的預算"},{"start":5614.44,"end":5616.44,"text":"合理的處理"},{"start":5616.44,"end":5618.44,"text":"是我們做"},{"start":5618.32,"end":5620.32,"text":"局部的凍結"},{"start":5620.32,"end":5622.32,"text":"我個人是主張連凍結都不要"},{"start":5622.32,"end":5624.32,"text":"我支持文化預算我支持文化外交"},{"start":5624.32,"end":5626.32,"text":"但如果要"},{"start":5626.32,"end":5628.32,"text":"請他們提供文化部提供"},{"start":5628.32,"end":5630.32,"text":"資料讓委員再進一步"},{"start":5630.32,"end":5632.32,"text":"參足最好的做法"},{"start":5633.43,"end":5635.43,"text":"是當然保留是一種方式"},{"start":5635.43,"end":5637.43,"text":"但是也可以"},{"start":5637.43,"end":5639.43,"text":"我們採取局部凍結的方式"},{"start":5639.43,"end":5641.43,"text":"然後讓文化部門"},{"start":5641.43,"end":5643.43,"text":"提出相關說明"},{"start":5643.43,"end":5645.43,"text":"再予以動之"},{"start":5645.43,"end":5647.43,"text":"我覺得這是合理的"},{"start":5647.43,"end":5649.43,"text":"做法但是我還是很遺憾"},{"start":5649.43,"end":5651.43,"text":"提案刪減的委員不要"},{"start":5651.43,"end":5653.43,"text":"用這種籠統的文字"},{"start":5653.43,"end":5655.43,"text":"你自己沒有辦法說"},{"start":5655.43,"end":5657.43,"text":"出來哪些筆補助的哪個團隊"},{"start":5657.43,"end":5659.43,"text":"一百萬不好該刪"},{"start":5659.43,"end":5661.43,"text":"哪些補助"},{"start":5661.43,"end":5663.43,"text":"補助活動造成負面觀感"},{"start":5663.43,"end":5665.43,"text":"一百二十萬該刪"},{"start":5665.43,"end":5667.43,"text":"自己提案的委員拿不出來"},{"start":5667.43,"end":5669.43,"text":"一直逼文化部文化部"},{"start":5670.32,"end":5672.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我先宣告那個"},{"start":5696.68,"end":5698.68,"text":"待會葉元之委員發言"},{"start":5698.68,"end":5700.68,"text":"再來郭奕勤委員"},{"start":5700.68,"end":5702.68,"text":"那謝謝郭奕勤委員"},{"start":5702.68,"end":5704.68,"text":"那有確定 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以我要回應"},{"start":6126.01,"end":6128.01,"text":"沒關係我連署的"},{"start":6128.01,"end":6130.01,"text":"但是你有批評"},{"start":6130.01,"end":6132.01,"text":"我就要回應就這麼簡單"},{"start":6134.35,"end":6136.35,"text":"所以我現在也要講你"},{"start":6136.93,"end":6138.93,"text":"你兩岸人民條例"},{"start":6138.93,"end":6140.93,"text":"你提了你又立可白又塗掉"},{"start":6140.93,"end":6142.93,"text":"你立可白立委"},{"start":6142.93,"end":6144.93,"text":"那你這話話說"},{"start":6144.93,"end":6146.93,"text":"我會是嗎"},{"start":6146.93,"end":6148.93,"text":"你又不敢講嗎"},{"start":6148.93,"end":6150.93,"text":"我講你"},{"start":6150.93,"end":6152.93,"text":"我會是嗎"},{"start":6152.93,"end":6154.93,"text":"然後別人講的時候就不行"},{"start":6154.93,"end":6156.93,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6156.93,"end":6158.93,"text":"你到底會不會當事實"},{"start":6158.93,"end":6160.93,"text":"然後再來無視要委員說"},{"start":6160.93,"end":6162.93,"text":"這個是補助這個是沒宣"},{"start":6162.93,"end":6164.93,"text":"剛剛你的直播又清清楚楚"},{"start":6164.93,"end":6166.93,"text":"就搞錯了你砍錯預算了"},{"start":6166.93,"end":6168.93,"text":"你砍錯預算了"},{"start":6168.93,"end":6170.93,"text":"那你去砍補助費"},{"start":6170.93,"end":6172.93,"text":"這是沒宣費"},{"start":6172.93,"end":6174.93,"text":"簡略簡簡連署"},{"start":6174.93,"end":6176.93,"text":"簡略簡簡連署"},{"start":6176.93,"end":6178.93,"text":"是不是羅廷瑋委員連署"},{"start":6178.93,"end":6180.93,"text":"是不是羅志強委員連署"},{"start":6180.93,"end":6182.93,"text":"是不是羅志強委員連署"},{"start":6182.93,"end":6184.93,"text":"白紙黑字那麼清楚"},{"start":6184.93,"end":6186.93,"text":"我就是講這個白紙黑字"},{"start":6186.93,"end":6188.93,"text":"的事情"},{"start":6188.93,"end":6190.93,"text":"沒有問題這是事實"},{"start":6190.93,"end":6192.93,"text":"為什麼我話殺手是事實"},{"start":6192.93,"end":6194.93,"text":"你是文化殺手是事實"},{"start":6194.93,"end":6196.93,"text":"你敢連署這種提案"},{"start":6196.93,"end":6198.93,"text":"羅廷瑋就是文化殺手"},{"start":6198.93,"end":6200.93,"text":"是事實"},{"start":6200.93,"end":6202.93,"text":"好不好"},{"start":6202.93,"end":6204.93,"text":"如果你想要捍衛"},{"start":6204.93,"end":6206.93,"text":"那你為什麼要立可白"},{"start":6206.93,"end":6208.93,"text":"那你就不要立可白"},{"start":6208.93,"end":6210.93,"text":"那你就可以捍衛了"},{"start":6210.93,"end":6212.93,"text":"我們支持你不要立可白"},{"start":6212.93,"end":6214.93,"text":"那你又說我不能管你"},{"start":6214.93,"end":6216.93,"text":"當然我不能管你"},{"start":6216.93,"end":6218.93,"text":"你又管別人的提案"},{"start":6218.93,"end":6220.93,"text":"我現在在審預算"},{"start":6220.93,"end":6222.93,"text":"我現在在審預算"},{"start":6222.93,"end":6224.93,"text":"主席你到底會不會主持"},{"start":6224.93,"end":6226.93,"text":"你不尊重別人你自然得不到尊重"},{"start":6226.93,"end":6228.93,"text":"最不尊重別人"},{"start":6228.93,"end":6230.93,"text":"人叫羅廷瑋"},{"start":6230.93,"end":6232.93,"text":"最不尊重委員發言權利的"},{"start":6232.93,"end":6234.93,"text":"叫做羅廷瑋"},{"start":6234.93,"end":6236.93,"text":"你不要正視著你是召委"},{"start":6236.93,"end":6238.93,"text":"你就可以無限制的"},{"start":6238.93,"end":6240.93,"text":"拿著麥克風做你愛評論"},{"start":6240.93,"end":6242.93,"text":"的事對於其他的委員"},{"start":6242.93,"end":6244.93,"text":"的主相來進行評論"},{"start":6244.93,"end":6246.93,"text":"拜託"},{"start":6246.93,"end":6248.93,"text":"這樣子的召委"},{"start":6248.93,"end":6250.93,"text":"沒有辦法搞清楚"},{"start":6250.93,"end":6252.93,"text":"預算要審哪一項"},{"start":6252.93,"end":6254.93,"text":"沒有辦法搞清楚你們的提案"},{"start":6254.93,"end":6256.93,"text":"都砍錯預算了"},{"start":6256.93,"end":6258.93,"text":"你自己做為連署的提案"},{"start":6258.93,"end":6260.93,"text":"共同提案人"},{"start":6260.93,"end":6262.93,"text":"你不敢面對"},{"start":6262.93,"end":6264.93,"text":"你是文化殺手你不敢面對"},{"start":6264.93,"end":6266.93,"text":"先窩小鈴鬧好了"},{"start":6266.93,"end":6268.93,"text":"好我們休息"},{"start":6268.93,"end":6270.93,"text":"休息一下謝謝"},{"start":6283.22,"end":6285.22,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6293.11,"end":6295.11,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6309.24,"end":6311.24,"text":"先說一聲"},{"start":6311.74,"end":6313.74,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6314.76,"end":6316.76,"text":"去那邊這邊"},{"start":6322.12,"end":6326.12,"text":"羅廷瑋還有美學給我的好嗎"},{"start":6326.12,"end":6328.12,"text":"再說一次是羅廷瑋"},{"start":6328.12,"end":6330.12,"text":"在外國我剛才那個天"},{"start":6330.12,"end":6332.12,"text":"一模一樣的比得上"},{"start":6332.29,"end":6334.29,"text":"沒有美學還是國的好好"},{"start":6334.29,"end":6336.29,"text":"不然國家要運作"},{"start":6336.29,"end":6338.29,"text":"不然"},{"start":6338.72,"end":6340.72,"text":"什麼意思"},{"start":6340.61,"end":6342.61,"text":"沒有美學"},{"start":6354.31,"end":6356.31,"text":"你剛才叫我坐前面"},{"start":6356.31,"end":6358.31,"text":"我不行我要跑廁所比較方便"},{"start":6358.31,"end":6360.31,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":6360.31,"end":6362.31,"text":"也不是醫生說也沒有"},{"start":6362.31,"end":6364.31,"text":"就是又發燒"},{"start":6434.32,"end":6436.32,"text":"我只告訴你們要怎麼做"},{"start":6436.32,"end":6438.32,"text":"不然到時候就不想了"},{"start":6658.94,"end":6660.94,"text":"不用再處理我們"},{"start":6660.94,"end":6662.94,"text":"個別的"},{"start":6662.94,"end":6664.94,"text":"每個產業師的每宣費"},{"start":6664.94,"end":6666.94,"text":"就不用再做說明"},{"start":6666.94,"end":6668.94,"text":"全部都在處理"},{"start":6668.94,"end":6670.94,"text":"我們這4738"},{"start":6670.94,"end":6672.94,"text":"就已經包括所有的人"},{"start":6672.94,"end":6674.94,"text":"我們"},{"start":6674.94,"end":6676.94,"text":"因為被硬塞"},{"start":6676.94,"end":6678.94,"text":"所以變得好像我們在裸自己"},{"start":6788.06,"end":6790.06,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6833.51,"end":6835.51,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6851.9,"end":6853.9,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6856.61,"end":6858.61,"text":"好現在開會"},{"start":6858.75,"end":6862.75,"text":"好我們先請郭一群委員發言"},{"start":6864.07,"end":6866.07,"text":"好"},{"start":6864.93,"end":6866.93,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":6866.93,"end":6868.93,"text":"好那我先解釋一下"},{"start":6868.93,"end":6870.93,"text":"因為這個簡列"},{"start":6870.93,"end":6872.93,"text":"我們的元列數是4738萬"},{"start":6872.93,"end":6874.93,"text":"如果簡列4738萬"},{"start":6874.93,"end":6876.93,"text":"是等於全數簡列"},{"start":6876.93,"end":6878.93,"text":"對我來講其實就是文化殺手"},{"start":6878.93,"end":6880.93,"text":"我先解釋我的原意是這樣"},{"start":6880.93,"end":6882.93,"text":"但我沒有特別指明誰"},{"start":6882.93,"end":6884.93,"text":"我還是要提醒"},{"start":6884.93,"end":6886.93,"text":"因為其實我們在下半年"},{"start":6886.93,"end":6888.93,"text":"會用到這筆預算的"},{"start":6888.93,"end":6890.93,"text":"包含國際書展"},{"start":6890.93,"end":6892.93,"text":"包含兒少書展"},{"start":6892.93,"end":6894.93,"text":"包含文博會"},{"start":6894.93,"end":6896.93,"text":"另外還有金錦獎跟金曼獎等等"},{"start":6896.93,"end":6898.93,"text":"那我想其實在今年"},{"start":6898.93,"end":6900.93,"text":"我們看到這麼多傑出優秀的"},{"start":6900.93,"end":6902.93,"text":"一些不管是展演也好"},{"start":6902.93,"end":6904.93,"text":"金曲獎也好然後其實大家對於"},{"start":6904.93,"end":6906.93,"text":"台灣影視文化"},{"start":6906.93,"end":6908.93,"text":"或者是在我們所有的其他的"},{"start":6908.93,"end":6910.93,"text":"一些展演的文化的一個部分"},{"start":6910.93,"end":6912.93,"text":"我覺得這個部分"},{"start":6912.93,"end":6914.93,"text":"全部簡列是有一點誇張"},{"start":6914.93,"end":6916.93,"text":"也有點過分了"},{"start":6916.93,"end":6918.93,"text":"我們平心而論"},{"start":6918.93,"end":6920.93,"text":"真的不要給他一台車"},{"start":6920.93,"end":6922.93,"text":"然後不給他加油的機會"},{"start":6922.93,"end":6924.93,"text":"連一滴油都不給他"},{"start":6924.93,"end":6926.93,"text":"那請問這台車到底要怎麼跑"},{"start":6926.93,"end":6928.93,"text":"那我想其實剛剛很多的委員"},{"start":6928.93,"end":6930.93,"text":"也都表示了一些意見"},{"start":6930.93,"end":6932.93,"text":"那我覺得這個部分"},{"start":6932.93,"end":6934.93,"text":"我真的希望是不是"},{"start":6934.93,"end":6936.93,"text":"可以就照列"},{"start":6936.93,"end":6938.93,"text":"我真的不希望因為去年"},{"start":6938.93,"end":6940.93,"text":"我們這筆預算已經是被砍到零了"},{"start":6940.93,"end":6942.93,"text":"這如果要說"},{"start":6942.93,"end":6944.93,"text":"不會啊我砍到零你還是活得好好的"},{"start":6944.93,"end":6946.93,"text":"而且還發光發熱"},{"start":6946.93,"end":6948.93,"text":"這很像我的小孩"},{"start":6948.93,"end":6950.93,"text":"如果我把它放到外地啊"},{"start":6951.35,"end":6953.35,"text":"他活得好好的"},{"start":6953.35,"end":6955.35,"text":"但他可能在整個所有的過程"},{"start":6955.35,"end":6957.35,"text":"東檢西調靠鄰居的補助"},{"start":6957.35,"end":6959.35,"text":"靠鄰居的幫忙"},{"start":6959.35,"end":6961.35,"text":"一天一餐這樣子給他"},{"start":6961.35,"end":6963.35,"text":"結果我說沒關係你活得好好的嘛"},{"start":6963.35,"end":6965.35,"text":"我一毛錢都不給你"},{"start":6965.35,"end":6967.35,"text":"我想這應該"},{"start":6967.35,"end":6969.35,"text":"任何身為父母的應該都做不到啦"},{"start":6969.35,"end":6971.35,"text":"要馬兒好"},{"start":6971.35,"end":6973.35,"text":"你還是要給馬兒吃草"},{"start":6973.35,"end":6975.35,"text":"這是我的原意"},{"start":6975.35,"end":6977.35,"text":"那我希望等一下我發言完之後"},{"start":6977.35,"end":6979.35,"text":"其實我們就請文化部"},{"start":6979.35,"end":6981.35,"text":"請文化部來說明"},{"start":6981.35,"end":6983.35,"text":"這筆預算的這個重要性"},{"start":6983.35,"end":6985.35,"text":"就像我剛剛講的"},{"start":6985.35,"end":6987.35,"text":"他是一個可以原本"},{"start":6987.35,"end":6989.35,"text":"發光發熱的"},{"start":6989.35,"end":6991.35,"text":"如果靠月光"},{"start":6991.35,"end":6993.35,"text":"靠平常的日光"},{"start":6993.35,"end":6995.35,"text":"對他有光輝"},{"start":6995.35,"end":6997.35,"text":"可是如果我們再多給他"},{"start":6997.35,"end":6999.35,"text":"一些補助多給他一些資源"},{"start":6999.35,"end":7001.35,"text":"他會不會更發光發熱"},{"start":7001.35,"end":7003.35,"text":"那這是我的意見"},{"start":7005.29,"end":7007.29,"text":"好我們今天這麼多案"},{"start":7007.29,"end":7009.29,"text":"我也不知道要審到什麼時候"},{"start":7009.29,"end":7011.29,"text":"那等一下就是看發言完"},{"start":7011.29,"end":7013.29,"text":"請主席才是是不是讓文化部來"},{"start":7013.29,"end":7015.29,"text":"表示意見那我的原意"},{"start":7015.29,"end":7017.29,"text":"希望還是照列好以上"},{"start":7017.85,"end":7019.85,"text":"好我們剛剛有宣告"},{"start":7020.38,"end":7022.38,"text":"那兩位發言完"},{"start":7022.73,"end":7024.73,"text":"再說所以我不能夠漏掉葉元之"},{"start":7024.73,"end":7026.73,"text":"葉元之委員"},{"start":7026.73,"end":7028.73,"text":"應該剛剛有舉手啦"},{"start":7028.73,"end":7030.73,"text":"後來草成一團我就那個"},{"start":7030.73,"end":7032.73,"text":"我覺得回到這個預算本身"},{"start":7032.73,"end":7034.73,"text":"不管提案委員是誰"},{"start":7034.73,"end":7036.73,"text":"既然有那麼多委員對這"},{"start":7036.73,"end":7038.73,"text":"四千多萬有意見"},{"start":7038.73,"end":7040.73,"text":"那我覺得等一下就請文化部好好說明"},{"start":7040.73,"end":7042.73,"text":"這四千七百萬到底用在什麼地方"},{"start":7042.73,"end":7044.73,"text":"那如果有必要的話"},{"start":7044.73,"end":7046.73,"text":"大家就照列嘛"},{"start":7046.73,"end":7048.73,"text":"如果大家對這個預算有質疑的話"},{"start":7048.73,"end":7050.73,"text":"就不管是凍結也好剪裂也好"},{"start":7050.73,"end":7052.73,"text":"這個是審查預算的ABC"},{"start":7052.73,"end":7054.73,"text":"所以我希望說有些委員"},{"start":7054.73,"end":7056.73,"text":"我不知道是意識形態特別重"},{"start":7056.73,"end":7058.73,"text":"還是特別怎麼樣"},{"start":7058.73,"end":7060.73,"text":"很喜歡政治鬥爭"},{"start":7060.73,"end":7062.73,"text":"老是喜歡潑髒水"},{"start":7062.73,"end":7064.73,"text":"好像只要提預算意見的一律都是"},{"start":7064.73,"end":7066.73,"text":"好像跟中共唱和"},{"start":7066.73,"end":7068.73,"text":"我是希望今天審預算都不要再出現"},{"start":7068.73,"end":7070.73,"text":"這種扣帽子抹紅潑糞的言論"},{"start":7070.73,"end":7072.73,"text":"這樣才能夠維持我們"},{"start":7072.73,"end":7074.73,"text":"教育文化委員會"},{"start":7074.73,"end":7076.73,"text":"一貫的優良傳統"},{"start":7076.73,"end":7078.73,"text":"就是就事論事"},{"start":7078.73,"end":7080.73,"text":"是不是"},{"start":7080.73,"end":7082.73,"text":"因為我不知道文化部是不是新聘吳士耀委員當發言人"},{"start":7082.73,"end":7084.73,"text":"所以剛剛大家都在問文化部"},{"start":7084.73,"end":7086.73,"text":"結果是吳士耀一直在說明說這個錢怎麼用"},{"start":7086.73,"end":7088.73,"text":"我不知道吳士耀說的錢是不是"},{"start":7088.73,"end":7090.73,"text":"真的就是文化部"},{"start":7090.73,"end":7092.73,"text":"就是這樣編的"},{"start":7092.73,"end":7094.73,"text":"所以請文化部來"},{"start":7094.77,"end":7096.77,"text":"但是因為你講了半天"},{"start":7096.77,"end":7098.77,"text":"你一直在幫文化部解釋"},{"start":7098.77,"end":7100.77,"text":"我不知道你解釋的到底是不是"},{"start":7100.77,"end":7102.77,"text":"因為我不知道你解釋的到底是不是文化部"},{"start":7102.77,"end":7104.77,"text":"這筆錢的用途"},{"start":7104.77,"end":7106.77,"text":"所以請文化部說明一下"},{"start":7106.77,"end":7108.77,"text":"到底這筆錢怎麼用"},{"start":7108.77,"end":7110.77,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7113.55,"end":7115.55,"text":"啊"},{"start":7114.46,"end":7116.46,"text":"不好意思"},{"start":7116.46,"end":7118.46,"text":"我還是要尊重別人啊"},{"start":7118.46,"end":7120.46,"text":"吳士耀委員你要發言嗎"},{"start":7119.32,"end":7121.32,"text":"吳士耀委員"},{"start":7122.77,"end":7124.77,"text":"我們不要去限制別人的言論自由"},{"start":7127.44,"end":7129.44,"text":"其實"},{"start":7129.44,"end":7131.44,"text":"其實我覺得是這樣啦"},{"start":7131.44,"end":7133.44,"text":"我剛剛去調出來了"},{"start":7133.44,"end":7135.44,"text":"這是外交部翁曉琳委員"},{"start":7135.44,"end":7137.44,"text":"砍"},{"start":7137.44,"end":7139.44,"text":"的提案"},{"start":7139.17,"end":7141.17,"text":"這是行政院翁曉琳委員砍"},{"start":7141.17,"end":7143.17,"text":"行政院沒選費的提案"},{"start":7144.53,"end":7146.53,"text":"這是陸委會"},{"start":7147.15,"end":7149.15,"text":"翁曉琳委員砍沒選的提案"},{"start":7149.15,"end":7151.15,"text":"跟今天文化部砍沒選費的提案"},{"start":7151.15,"end":7153.15,"text":"跟今天文化部砍沒選費的提案"},{"start":7153.15,"end":7155.15,"text":"完全是複製貼上"},{"start":7156.47,"end":7158.47,"text":"完全是複製貼上"},{"start":7158.47,"end":7160.47,"text":"這就是無差別的"},{"start":7160.47,"end":7162.47,"text":"砍預算"},{"start":7162.22,"end":7164.22,"text":"無差別的"},{"start":7164.38,"end":7166.38,"text":"對於政府的沒選費"},{"start":7167.01,"end":7169.01,"text":"看到沒選費就開清"},{"start":7169.01,"end":7171.01,"text":"看到沒選費就全砍全殺"},{"start":7172.55,"end":7174.55,"text":"所以說我們一直很理性的在說"},{"start":7174.55,"end":7176.55,"text":"你針對不同部門的"},{"start":7176.55,"end":7178.55,"text":"不同預算"},{"start":7178.55,"end":7180.55,"text":"有什麼樣意見你具體的提出來"},{"start":7180.55,"end":7182.55,"text":"我不能接受的是"},{"start":7182.55,"end":7184.55,"text":"一個沒有在教育文化委員會"},{"start":7184.55,"end":7186.55,"text":"鑽研過認真過的委員"},{"start":7186.55,"end":7188.55,"text":"外委員會也有提案的權利"},{"start":7188.55,"end":7190.55,"text":"可以因為我們也有"},{"start":7190.55,"end":7192.55,"text":"羅志祥委員羅廷威委員幫他一起連署"},{"start":7192.55,"end":7194.55,"text":"程序符合OK"},{"start":7194.55,"end":7196.55,"text":"可是對於這一項的"},{"start":7196.55,"end":7198.55,"text":"沒選費到底用在哪裡"},{"start":7198.55,"end":7200.55,"text":"完全不清楚提案"},{"start":7200.55,"end":7202.55,"text":"只是複製貼上"},{"start":7202.55,"end":7204.55,"text":"這樣子對於審查預算有負責任嗎"},{"start":7205.47,"end":7207.47,"text":"然後我最後再補充一點"},{"start":7207.47,"end":7209.47,"text":"剛剛在講的"},{"start":7209.47,"end":7211.47,"text":"包括羅廷威教委一直在提到"},{"start":7211.47,"end":7213.47,"text":"某個補助案造成了"},{"start":7213.47,"end":7215.47,"text":"社會觀感不佳"},{"start":7215.47,"end":7217.47,"text":"那個提案的預算在第260案"},{"start":7217.47,"end":7219.47,"text":"在影視音"},{"start":7219.47,"end":7221.47,"text":"產業發展計劃"},{"start":7221.47,"end":7223.47,"text":"向下的"},{"start":7223.47,"end":7225.47,"text":"流行音樂輔導"},{"start":7225.72,"end":7227.72,"text":"而且那一個案子"},{"start":7227.72,"end":7229.72,"text":"是108年度"},{"start":7229.72,"end":7231.72,"text":"的補助案"},{"start":7231.72,"end":7233.72,"text":"補助經費是70萬"},{"start":7233.72,"end":7235.72,"text":"是一整張製作"},{"start":7235.72,"end":7237.72,"text":"專輯裡面的其中一首"},{"start":7237.72,"end":7239.72,"text":"歌"},{"start":7239.71,"end":7241.71,"text":"被認為也許在"},{"start":7241.71,"end":7243.71,"text":"內容上有所不妥"},{"start":7244.81,"end":7246.81,"text":"但這是108年的一個補助案"},{"start":7249.5,"end":7251.5,"text":"現在是審查"},{"start":7253.38,"end":7255.38,"text":"幾年的預算"},{"start":7255.38,"end":7257.38,"text":"108年跟現在"},{"start":7257.48,"end":7259.48,"text":"拿這樣子的理由"},{"start":7259.48,"end":7261.48,"text":"那如果你要再要求"},{"start":7261.48,"end":7263.48,"text":"行政部門文化部經濟"},{"start":7263.48,"end":7265.48,"text":"也可以那請在"},{"start":7265.48,"end":7267.48,"text":"對的預算項目上"},{"start":7267.48,"end":7269.48,"text":"提出對的主張"},{"start":7269.48,"end":7271.48,"text":"而那個補助費的"},{"start":7271.48,"end":7273.48,"text":"預算項目在預算書"},{"start":7273.48,"end":7275.48,"text":"的流行音樂產業發展計劃"},{"start":7275.48,"end":7277.48,"text":"是在影視音"},{"start":7278.13,"end":7280.13,"text":"的預算裡"},{"start":7280.13,"end":7282.13,"text":"不在現在的沒宣費裡"},{"start":7282.13,"end":7284.13,"text":"所以這就是我說的"},{"start":7284.65,"end":7286.65,"text":"一個提案委員對於預算編在哪"},{"start":7286.65,"end":7288.65,"text":"不清楚"},{"start":7288.95,"end":7290.95,"text":"要砍也亂砍"},{"start":7290.95,"end":7292.95,"text":"砍錯人"},{"start":7293.61,"end":7295.61,"text":"然後所有的提案都是複製貼上"},{"start":7295.61,"end":7297.61,"text":"從外交部行政院"},{"start":7297.61,"end":7299.61,"text":"陸委會再到文化部"},{"start":7301.05,"end":7303.05,"text":"政府的嘴"},{"start":7303.05,"end":7305.05,"text":"政府傳達的管道被"},{"start":7305.05,"end":7307.05,"text":"掐住了脖子被摀住了嘴"},{"start":7307.05,"end":7309.05,"text":"我們怎麼對國人宣傳政策"},{"start":7309.05,"end":7311.05,"text":"怎麼對外行銷台灣"},{"start":7312.39,"end":7314.39,"text":"不要掩耳盜鈴"},{"start":7314.39,"end":7316.39,"text":"只是為了政治攻擊"},{"start":7318.48,"end":7320.48,"text":"攻擊執政"},{"start":7320.44,"end":7322.44,"text":"團隊無差別的砍預算"},{"start":7322.44,"end":7324.44,"text":"就在這裡"},{"start":7325.22,"end":7327.22,"text":"我是真的覺得提案的委員"},{"start":7327.22,"end":7329.22,"text":"真的你要砍預算認真一點"},{"start":7329.22,"end":7331.22,"text":"項目看對"},{"start":7331.22,"end":7333.22,"text":"數目看準"},{"start":7333.82,"end":7335.82,"text":"提案提在哪也要搞清楚"},{"start":7335.82,"end":7337.82,"text":"所以我不能接受這種"},{"start":7338.46,"end":7340.46,"text":"為砍而砍"},{"start":7340.4,"end":7342.4,"text":"的提案我強力的主張"},{"start":7342.4,"end":7344.4,"text":"我也請主席可以"},{"start":7344.4,"end":7346.4,"text":"依據我們的主席我再跟您"},{"start":7346.4,"end":7348.4,"text":"報告主席"},{"start":7348.32,"end":7350.32,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":7350.32,"end":7352.32,"text":"請依據我們現場"},{"start":7352.32,"end":7354.32,"text":"我看多數的委員是希望照列"},{"start":7354.32,"end":7356.32,"text":"看看主席的"},{"start":7356.32,"end":7358.32,"text":"沒關係我說我們多數委員"},{"start":7358.32,"end":7360.32,"text":"我是提醒主席可以處理"},{"start":7360.32,"end":7362.32,"text":"我個人強烈表達"},{"start":7362.32,"end":7364.32,"text":"因為如果說"},{"start":7364.32,"end":7366.32,"text":"不能夠因為"},{"start":7366.32,"end":7368.32,"text":"現在年已經過半了"},{"start":7368.32,"end":7370.32,"text":"好像這筆費用"},{"start":7370.32,"end":7372.32,"text":"用到的是下半年的活動"},{"start":7372.32,"end":7374.32,"text":"的宣傳我覺得不能這樣"},{"start":7375.23,"end":7377.23,"text":"因為我們該給國家的預算是整年度的"},{"start":7377.23,"end":7379.23,"text":"對不起我在發言"},{"start":7381.39,"end":7383.39,"text":"我哪裡講的是不合理的"},{"start":7383.39,"end":7385.39,"text":"請你反駁啊"},{"start":7385.39,"end":7387.39,"text":"請你反駁啊"},{"start":7387.39,"end":7389.39,"text":"我哪裡講錯了不要不敢面對"},{"start":7390.35,"end":7392.35,"text":"所以說我真的覺得"},{"start":7392.35,"end":7394.35,"text":"我們這一筆預算是一整年的"},{"start":7394.35,"end":7396.35,"text":"預算不能因為現在"},{"start":7396.35,"end":7398.35,"text":"只剩下下半年"},{"start":7398.35,"end":7400.35,"text":"我們就認為我們留給下半年"},{"start":7400.35,"end":7402.35,"text":"足夠的額度就好了不"},{"start":7402.35,"end":7404.35,"text":"可以這樣而且以後"},{"start":7404.35,"end":7406.35,"text":"這一筆預算項目就會留在那裡"},{"start":7406.35,"end":7408.35,"text":"可能今年保留兩千萬"},{"start":7408.35,"end":7410.35,"text":"或是多少那對於每一年的"},{"start":7410.35,"end":7412.35,"text":"沒宣費去年就是"},{"start":7412.35,"end":7414.35,"text":"就是犯了這樣的錯所以"},{"start":7414.35,"end":7416.35,"text":"它那個基底合宜的補助"},{"start":7416.35,"end":7418.35,"text":"合宜的經費"},{"start":7418.35,"end":7420.35,"text":"的項目數字就"},{"start":7420.35,"end":7422.35,"text":"一直被這樣子縮水"},{"start":7422.35,"end":7424.35,"text":"縮水下去該"},{"start":7424.35,"end":7426.35,"text":"多少就是一整年度的預算我們"},{"start":7426.35,"end":7428.35,"text":"要看整年的文化外交"},{"start":7428.35,"end":7430.35,"text":"跟對內宣傳"},{"start":7430.35,"end":7432.35,"text":"的所需經費是多少"},{"start":7433.22,"end":7435.22,"text":"所以請部長要回應之前"},{"start":7436.1,"end":7438.1,"text":"我覺得請提案的委員搞清楚"},{"start":7438.1,"end":7440.1,"text":"砍錯地方"},{"start":7440.1,"end":7442.1,"text":"砍錯預算然後不敢面對"},{"start":7442.1,"end":7444.1,"text":"這才是我們委員"},{"start":7444.1,"end":7446.1,"text":"不嚴謹不專業"},{"start":7446.1,"end":7448.1,"text":"這才是問題所在"},{"start":7448.5,"end":7450.5,"text":"請羅致陽委員發言"},{"start":7452.3,"end":7454.3,"text":"沒辦法"},{"start":7454.3,"end":7456.3,"text":"吳思耀委員又點名我"},{"start":7456.3,"end":7458.3,"text":"根據被點名"},{"start":7458.3,"end":7460.3,"text":"只好來回應的這個原則"},{"start":7460.3,"end":7462.3,"text":"我還是來回應一下"},{"start":7462.3,"end":7464.3,"text":"其實我還是謝謝吳思耀委員"},{"start":7464.3,"end":7466.3,"text":"因為吳思耀委員每次發言"},{"start":7466.3,"end":7468.3,"text":"都會讓事情變得更清楚"},{"start":7468.3,"end":7470.3,"text":"所以謝謝吳思耀委員"},{"start":7470.3,"end":7472.3,"text":"那只是刀跟劍"},{"start":7472.3,"end":7474.3,"text":"往哪邊打搞不太清楚"},{"start":7474.3,"end":7476.3,"text":"剛吳思耀委員"},{"start":7476.3,"end":7478.3,"text":"特別講翁曉玲委員"},{"start":7478.3,"end":7480.3,"text":"她提案全山"},{"start":7480.3,"end":7482.3,"text":"運動化部的沒宣費"},{"start":7482.3,"end":7484.3,"text":"那不就證明一件事情嗎"},{"start":7484.3,"end":7486.3,"text":"請問運動部的"},{"start":7486.3,"end":7488.3,"text":"沒宣費刪了嗎"},{"start":7487.89,"end":7489.89,"text":"教育部的沒宣費刪了嗎"},{"start":7490.1,"end":7492.1,"text":"通通沒刪啊"},{"start":7491.6,"end":7493.6,"text":"好,不用擔心"},{"start":7493.6,"end":7495.6,"text":"等我講完吳思耀委員"},{"start":7495.6,"end":7497.6,"text":"你剛講話又沒插嘴"},{"start":7497.6,"end":7499.6,"text":"你講那麼長都沒插嘴"},{"start":7499.6,"end":7501.6,"text":"不要每次人家講話就插嘴"},{"start":7501.6,"end":7503.6,"text":"吳思耀委員請不要干擾別人的發言"},{"start":7503.6,"end":7505.6,"text":"剛剛葉元之委員也選擇最後不干擾"},{"start":7505.6,"end":7507.6,"text":"不要這樣子"},{"start":7507.6,"end":7509.6,"text":"至少我沒有干擾你,不要干擾我"},{"start":7509.78,"end":7511.78,"text":"還是謝謝吳思耀委員啦"},{"start":7511.78,"end":7513.78,"text":"我告訴大家"},{"start":7514.54,"end":7516.54,"text":"預算的審查"},{"start":7516.54,"end":7518.54,"text":"今天沒宣費"},{"start":7518.21,"end":7520.21,"text":"文化部在使用過程當中"},{"start":7520.21,"end":7522.21,"text":"當然有公信力的問題啊"},{"start":7522.67,"end":7524.67,"text":"為什麼運動部跟教育部的沒宣費"},{"start":7524.67,"end":7526.67,"text":"在我們教育文化委員會"},{"start":7526.67,"end":7528.67,"text":"我們能夠通過"},{"start":7528.67,"end":7530.67,"text":"照例"},{"start":7530.58,"end":7532.58,"text":"因為我相信教育部啊"},{"start":7532.66,"end":7534.66,"text":"因為我相信運動部啊"},{"start":7534.66,"end":7536.66,"text":"因為他沒有過去亂用的紀錄啊"},{"start":7536.66,"end":7538.66,"text":"就這麼簡單啊"},{"start":7539.29,"end":7541.29,"text":"吳思耀委員在做第二點陳情講得非常好"},{"start":7541.29,"end":7543.29,"text":"他講"},{"start":7543.59,"end":7547.59,"text":"文化部補助性侵犯毛小孩的音樂創作"},{"start":7547.59,"end":7549.59,"text":"他說這是108年"},{"start":7549.59,"end":7551.59,"text":"對啦"},{"start":7551.59,"end":7553.59,"text":"沒關係啦"},{"start":7553.59,"end":7555.59,"text":"多年前啦"},{"start":7554.73,"end":7556.73,"text":"我們在過去質詢的過程當中"},{"start":7556.73,"end":7558.73,"text":"要的就是文化部的態度"},{"start":7558.73,"end":7560.73,"text":"請問文化部"},{"start":7560.73,"end":7562.73,"text":"有對此道歉嗎"},{"start":7562.66,"end":7564.66,"text":"有對此說認真改善嗎"},{"start":7564.66,"end":7566.66,"text":"沒有啊"},{"start":7566.29,"end":7568.29,"text":"從剛開始文化部"},{"start":7568.29,"end":7570.29,"text":"還是在護航啊"},{"start":7570.29,"end":7572.29,"text":"到後來態度有軟一點點"},{"start":7572.29,"end":7574.29,"text":"但這件事情我沒有看文化部的檢討"},{"start":7574.29,"end":7576.29,"text":"這叫做過往"},{"start":7576.5,"end":7578.5,"text":"過往文化部對過往"},{"start":7578.5,"end":7580.5,"text":"可能因為政經部長"},{"start":7580.5,"end":7582.5,"text":"留下的爛攤子"},{"start":7582.76,"end":7584.76,"text":"他不想要去打政經部長的臉"},{"start":7584.76,"end":7586.76,"text":"但是如果你的態度沒有改變"},{"start":7586.76,"end":7588.76,"text":"這就累積到公信力的自傷嘛"},{"start":7590.52,"end":7592.52,"text":"第二個"},{"start":7592.52,"end":7594.52,"text":"吳釗燮你講的是這個"},{"start":7594.52,"end":7596.52,"text":"108年的案子"},{"start":7596.57,"end":7598.57,"text":"抱歉啊 我在68案裡面"},{"start":7599.16,"end":7601.16,"text":"不要講功夫這個案子"},{"start":7601.49,"end":7603.49,"text":"我要特別講"},{"start":7603.6,"end":7605.6,"text":"國家工坊得之不易啊"},{"start":7607.01,"end":7609.01,"text":"今天單單一個"},{"start":7609.01,"end":7611.01,"text":"票房不佳的功夫"},{"start":7612.09,"end":7614.09,"text":"文化部就投了1.5億耶"},{"start":7616.24,"end":7618.24,"text":"任何的團體要拿到文化部"},{"start":7618.24,"end":7620.24,"text":"100萬都很困難的啊"},{"start":7620.33,"end":7622.33,"text":"你拿了1.5億"},{"start":7622.33,"end":7624.33,"text":"我想請問到現在為止"},{"start":7624.33,"end":7626.33,"text":"文化部有告訴我們怎麼檢討反省嗎"},{"start":7626.33,"end":7628.33,"text":"沒有啊 到案68"},{"start":7628.33,"end":7630.33,"text":"我會再拿出來講啊"},{"start":7630.57,"end":7632.57,"text":"所以我還是感謝吳釗燮委員嘛"},{"start":7632.57,"end":7634.57,"text":"你說 太久了不能追"},{"start":7634.57,"end":7636.57,"text":"最近的總可以講吧"},{"start":7636.57,"end":7638.57,"text":"最近的總可以講吧"},{"start":7638.57,"end":7640.57,"text":"那我就要講"},{"start":7640.57,"end":7642.57,"text":"不要 你不要"},{"start":7642.57,"end":7644.57,"text":"你待會要舉手再講話"},{"start":7644.57,"end":7646.57,"text":"我也不會插你的嘴嘛"},{"start":7646.57,"end":7648.57,"text":"不用擔心嘛"},{"start":7648.57,"end":7650.57,"text":"你不要點我的名"},{"start":7650.57,"end":7652.57,"text":"我就不會回應你嘛"},{"start":7652.57,"end":7654.57,"text":"你點我的名我只要回應你啊"},{"start":7654.57,"end":7656.57,"text":"建立這個原則啊"},{"start":7656.57,"end":7658.57,"text":"對不對 來沒關係"},{"start":7658.57,"end":7660.57,"text":"請提案理由嘛"},{"start":7660.57,"end":7662.57,"text":"參與連署理由嘛"},{"start":7662.57,"end":7664.57,"text":"不要用我講的有道理"},{"start":7664.57,"end":7666.57,"text":"又開始用插嘴打倒的方式"},{"start":7666.57,"end":7668.57,"text":"來去"},{"start":7668.57,"end":7670.57,"text":"是自己對自己的邏輯沒信心嗎"},{"start":7670.7,"end":7672.7,"text":"我還是回頭講"},{"start":7672.69,"end":7674.69,"text":"光功夫這件事情"},{"start":7675.02,"end":7677.02,"text":"請文化不給什麼交代"},{"start":7677.21,"end":7679.21,"text":"我今天要衛生研的是"},{"start":7679.21,"end":7681.21,"text":"其他沒有"},{"start":7681.21,"end":7683.21,"text":"拿到補助的"},{"start":7683.21,"end":7685.21,"text":"影視創作團體"},{"start":7685.21,"end":7687.21,"text":"我也不是沒有接到其他沒有拿到"},{"start":7687.21,"end":7689.21,"text":"補助的影視創作團體"},{"start":7689.21,"end":7691.21,"text":"1.5億"},{"start":7691.96,"end":7693.96,"text":"光15的團體可以拿1000萬啊"},{"start":7696.3,"end":7698.3,"text":"請問文化部能不能保證不會"},{"start":7698.3,"end":7700.3,"text":"這種事情再發生"},{"start":7700.3,"end":7702.3,"text":"有保證過嗎"},{"start":7701.81,"end":7703.81,"text":"如果沒有這種保證"},{"start":7703.81,"end":7705.81,"text":"說真的今天沒宣費"},{"start":7705.81,"end":7707.81,"text":"翁曉盈講的也不能說沒道理啊"},{"start":7708.51,"end":7710.51,"text":"文化部即便免費40"},{"start":7711.35,"end":7713.35,"text":"光復還可以補出1.5億啊"},{"start":7713.35,"end":7715.35,"text":"沒宣費40"},{"start":7715.35,"end":7717.35,"text":"今天還是一樣可以有很多事情做啊"},{"start":7717.35,"end":7719.35,"text":"但做的好還是壞"},{"start":7719.35,"end":7721.35,"text":"心中只有一把尺啊"},{"start":7721.88,"end":7723.88,"text":"心中只有一把尺啊"},{"start":7723.88,"end":7725.88,"text":"所以回到沒宣費這件事情"},{"start":7725.88,"end":7727.88,"text":"我只要問一件事情啊"},{"start":7727.88,"end":7729.88,"text":"為什麼運動部為什麼教育部"},{"start":7730.25,"end":7732.25,"text":"都沒宣費沒有砍"},{"start":7733.9,"end":7735.9,"text":"要不要自我反省一下"},{"start":7736.37,"end":7738.37,"text":"今天或者部長在這邊跟我講"},{"start":7739.71,"end":7741.71,"text":"說今天你願意為性侵犯毛小孩"},{"start":7741.71,"end":7743.71,"text":"過去的錯誤"},{"start":7743.71,"end":7745.71,"text":"你跟我道歉保證"},{"start":7745.71,"end":7747.71,"text":"不是要跟我道歉啊"},{"start":7747.71,"end":7749.71,"text":"跟人民道歉保證"},{"start":7749.71,"end":7751.71,"text":"絕不再犯不會有這種事情"},{"start":7751.79,"end":7753.79,"text":"對於工夫這種獨佔1.5億的這種所謂的"},{"start":7753.79,"end":7755.79,"text":"獨佔的狀況"},{"start":7755.79,"end":7757.79,"text":"你可不可以跟我保證"},{"start":7757.79,"end":7759.79,"text":"不會再有這種情形"},{"start":7760.87,"end":7762.87,"text":"那今天我們可以來告訴大家說"},{"start":7762.87,"end":7764.87,"text":"文化部運算我們可以好好的來"},{"start":7764.87,"end":7766.87,"text":"看看秉持你願意"},{"start":7766.87,"end":7768.87,"text":"改正過往的想法"},{"start":7768.87,"end":7770.87,"text":"我們對你的信任度高一點"},{"start":7770.87,"end":7772.87,"text":"第三個就是我要講的嘛"},{"start":7774.84,"end":7776.84,"text":"前面沒有公信力"},{"start":7776.84,"end":7778.84,"text":"你的沒宣費的案子"},{"start":7778.84,"end":7780.84,"text":"又沒有透明度"},{"start":7781.53,"end":7783.53,"text":"這是為什麼葉原志委員一直在講的嘛"},{"start":7783.53,"end":7785.53,"text":"你透明總要做到嘛"},{"start":7786.89,"end":7788.89,"text":"如果前面沒有公信力"},{"start":7788.89,"end":7790.89,"text":"透明度又沒有做好的時候"},{"start":7790.89,"end":7792.89,"text":"那說真的"},{"start":7792.7,"end":7794.7,"text":"今天放了這個沒宣費"},{"start":7795.89,"end":7797.89,"text":"既公信力站不住腳"},{"start":7797.89,"end":7799.89,"text":"透明度也站不住腳"},{"start":7799.26,"end":7801.26,"text":"我不會拿來說什麼今天"},{"start":7801.26,"end":7805.26,"text":"這個委員反對這個提案的委員是愚蠢啦"},{"start":7805.26,"end":7807.26,"text":"我不會用這種話來講啦"},{"start":7807.34,"end":7809.34,"text":"可是拜託啊"},{"start":7809.34,"end":7811.34,"text":"立法委員監督預算是天職好不好"},{"start":7812.37,"end":7814.37,"text":"我跟你講我的結論很簡單"},{"start":7814.8,"end":7816.8,"text":"尊重翁曉盈委員"},{"start":7816.8,"end":7818.8,"text":"今天提案在這裡"},{"start":7818.8,"end":7820.8,"text":"那就是保留嘛以上"},{"start":7821.47,"end":7823.47,"text":"好剛剛郭一行委員要舉手了"},{"start":7823.47,"end":7825.47,"text":"我先講30秒"},{"start":7825.47,"end":7827.47,"text":"那也補充一下"},{"start":7827.47,"end":7829.47,"text":"因為我在質詢的時候也有問"},{"start":7829.47,"end":7831.47,"text":"我們的文化部長"},{"start":7831.47,"end":7833.47,"text":"對於這108年"},{"start":7833.47,"end":7837.47,"text":"這一案補助性侵毛小孩的這個補助"},{"start":7837.47,"end":7839.47,"text":"要不要追回"},{"start":7839.47,"end":7841.47,"text":"他說他把這個音樂"},{"start":7841.47,"end":7843.47,"text":"再拿給所有的委員"},{"start":7843.47,"end":7845.47,"text":"再評估一次"},{"start":7845.47,"end":7847.47,"text":"所有的委員說沒有問題"},{"start":7848.57,"end":7850.57,"text":"要繼續給"},{"start":7850.95,"end":7852.95,"text":"所以不用收回"},{"start":7852.81,"end":7854.81,"text":"所以我當然擔心啊"},{"start":7854.81,"end":7856.81,"text":"我當然擔憂啊"},{"start":7856.81,"end":7858.81,"text":"部長親自認證"},{"start":7858.81,"end":7860.81,"text":"拿回去再聽沒問題"},{"start":7859.89,"end":7861.89,"text":"所以以後會再發放的機率非常高"},{"start":7861.89,"end":7863.89,"text":"以上"},{"start":7864.25,"end":7866.25,"text":"好我短短的再說一下"},{"start":7866.25,"end":7868.25,"text":"因為其實我剛剛有特別提到"},{"start":7868.25,"end":7870.25,"text":"因為這一筆"},{"start":7871.4,"end":7873.4,"text":"編列的預算其實是攸關下半年"},{"start":7873.4,"end":7875.4,"text":"我剛剛提到的那麼多的項目"},{"start":7876.77,"end":7878.77,"text":"那包含"},{"start":7878.77,"end":7880.77,"text":"我再強調一次"},{"start":7880.77,"end":7882.77,"text":"國際書展、兒少書展、時裝周、文博會、金鼎獎、金曼獎"},{"start":7882.77,"end":7884.77,"text":"那剛剛其實"},{"start":7884.77,"end":7886.77,"text":"兩位羅委員"},{"start":7886.77,"end":7888.77,"text":"所提到的那個是後面"},{"start":7888.77,"end":7890.77,"text":"68跟260"},{"start":7890.77,"end":7892.77,"text":"那那個部分我們是不是等到那個部分"},{"start":7892.77,"end":7894.77,"text":"我們再來解決這個問題"},{"start":7894.77,"end":7896.77,"text":"就是你們剛剛的疑慮的問題"},{"start":7896.9,"end":7898.9,"text":"如果說今天我們剛剛所提到的這些"},{"start":7898.9,"end":7900.9,"text":"明年可能會用到"},{"start":7900.9,"end":7902.9,"text":"這筆費用的部分"},{"start":7902.9,"end":7904.9,"text":"我們是不是可以給文化部一個機會"},{"start":7904.9,"end":7906.9,"text":"如果真的今年做不好"},{"start":7906.9,"end":7908.9,"text":"明年再來修理他們"},{"start":7908.9,"end":7910.9,"text":"好不好"},{"start":7910.9,"end":7912.9,"text":"那我想這個部分我"},{"start":7912.9,"end":7914.9,"text":"我支持還是原照列"},{"start":7914.9,"end":7916.9,"text":"因為去年已經砍到零了"},{"start":7916.9,"end":7918.9,"text":"那今年是不是給他們一點點生活的條件"},{"start":7918.9,"end":7920.9,"text":"那今年是不是給他們一點點生活的條件"},{"start":7922.92,"end":7924.92,"text":"好不好"},{"start":7924.92,"end":7926.92,"text":"那剛剛至於兩位所提到的"},{"start":7926.92,"end":7928.92,"text":"那個是後面"},{"start":7928.92,"end":7930.92,"text":"後面是第68案跟260案"},{"start":7930.92,"end":7932.92,"text":"我們後面再來討論那個部分"},{"start":7932.92,"end":7934.92,"text":"那如果"},{"start":7934.92,"end":7936.92,"text":"剛剛我所提到的"},{"start":7936.92,"end":7938.92,"text":"明年下半年還有明年的"},{"start":7938.92,"end":7940.92,"text":"這麼多重要的一個展覽"},{"start":7940.92,"end":7942.92,"text":"跟這麼多重要的一些"},{"start":7943.93,"end":7945.93,"text":"活動"},{"start":7945.96,"end":7947.96,"text":"那需要這筆預算"},{"start":7947.96,"end":7949.96,"text":"我們給他們一個機會"},{"start":7949.96,"end":7951.96,"text":"讓他們好好做"},{"start":7951.96,"end":7953.96,"text":"做不好我們明年一樣"},{"start":7953.96,"end":7955.96,"text":"會在這個地方再繼續修理"},{"start":7955.96,"end":7957.96,"text":"這樣子好不好"},{"start":7957.96,"end":7959.96,"text":"那是不是可以請文化部來回應"},{"start":7960.4,"end":7962.4,"text":"不好意思因為有人聚首"},{"start":7962.4,"end":7964.4,"text":"30秒就好"},{"start":7964.4,"end":7966.4,"text":"我覺得我們這個審預算的程序變得很奇怪"},{"start":7966.4,"end":7968.4,"text":"變成民進黨的立委先說可不可以照列"},{"start":7968.4,"end":7970.4,"text":"然後我們再找文化部來說明"},{"start":7970.4,"end":7972.4,"text":"那以後乾脆預算都不用審好了"},{"start":7972.4,"end":7974.4,"text":"就直接全部照列就好了"},{"start":7974.4,"end":7976.4,"text":"應該我覺得SOP"},{"start":7976.4,"end":7978.4,"text":"應該是說大家先提出各自的疑慮"},{"start":7978.4,"end":7980.4,"text":"然後文化部來說明"},{"start":7980.4,"end":7982.4,"text":"如果文化部說明OK照列"},{"start":7982.4,"end":7984.4,"text":"如果不OK就動或刪"},{"start":7984.4,"end":7986.4,"text":"怎麼會變成說先照列"},{"start":7986.4,"end":7988.4,"text":"你沒有照列你就是文化殺手"},{"start":7988.4,"end":7990.4,"text":"你就是什麼中共同務人"},{"start":7990.4,"end":7992.4,"text":"我覺得真的是不要這樣子"},{"start":7992.4,"end":7994.4,"text":"就是剛剛很多委員有問題了"},{"start":7994.4,"end":7996.4,"text":"那就請文化部一次把問題說清楚"},{"start":7996.4,"end":7998.4,"text":"委員們會就事論事"},{"start":7998.4,"end":8000.4,"text":"該給的大家都會給好不好"},{"start":8003.3,"end":8005.3,"text":"好是不是由部長來說明"},{"start":8005.44,"end":8007.44,"text":"好來"},{"start":8007.45,"end":8009.45,"text":"我對剛才所有"},{"start":8009.45,"end":8011.45,"text":"幫我們講話的立委"},{"start":8011.45,"end":8013.45,"text":"幫我們捍衛預算的立委"},{"start":8013.45,"end":8015.45,"text":"謝謝你們"},{"start":8015.45,"end":8017.45,"text":"針對我們這個預算有疑慮的"},{"start":8017.45,"end":8019.45,"text":"我解釋一下"},{"start":8019.45,"end":8021.45,"text":"剛剛講到我們去年一整年都沒有這個"},{"start":8021.45,"end":8023.45,"text":"美宣可是我們還做得很好"},{"start":8023.45,"end":8025.45,"text":"其實是一種讚美"},{"start":8025.45,"end":8027.45,"text":"事實上我們真的是在沒有美宣的情況下做"},{"start":8027.45,"end":8029.45,"text":"那像我個人"},{"start":8029.45,"end":8031.45,"text":"就寫FB寫到每天晚上都在寫"},{"start":8031.45,"end":8033.45,"text":"寫到我的同事跟我講"},{"start":8033.45,"end":8035.45,"text":"你不要再寫因為人家以為你"},{"start":8035.45,"end":8037.45,"text":"沒事幹後來你不敢寫"},{"start":8037.45,"end":8039.45,"text":"只是舉個例子"},{"start":8039.45,"end":8041.45,"text":"其實你們應該對我們文化部稍微小小的讚美一下"},{"start":8041.45,"end":8043.45,"text":"譬如金曲獎"},{"start":8043.45,"end":8045.45,"text":"各位看到金曲獎"},{"start":8045.45,"end":8047.45,"text":"辦這麼好是因為我們剛好"},{"start":8047.45,"end":8049.45,"text":"在保留在影視音裡面"},{"start":8049.45,"end":8051.45,"text":"有百分之被砍掉的百分之六十"},{"start":8051.45,"end":8053.45,"text":"還有百分之四十的預算"},{"start":8053.45,"end":8055.45,"text":"我們就可以把金曲獎做這麼好"},{"start":8055.45,"end":8057.45,"text":"你只要給我們一點點錢我們就可以"},{"start":8057.45,"end":8059.45,"text":"做得蠻好國片票房各位看到"},{"start":8059.45,"end":8061.45,"text":"今年上半年的票牌"},{"start":8061.45,"end":8063.45,"text":"已經遠遠達到去年"},{"start":8063.45,"end":8065.45,"text":"國片票房整個都起飛"},{"start":8065.45,"end":8067.45,"text":"各位看到在文學獎"},{"start":8067.45,"end":8069.45,"text":"我們已經突破得到國際大獎"},{"start":8069.45,"end":8071.45,"text":"所以我在這裡非常感謝"},{"start":8071.45,"end":8073.45,"text":"所有文化部的同仁"},{"start":8073.45,"end":8075.45,"text":"在這樣的預算下"},{"start":8075.45,"end":8077.45,"text":"努力"},{"start":8077.45,"end":8079.45,"text":"所以這是第一個謝謝所有讚美我們的委員"},{"start":8079.45,"end":8081.45,"text":"其實我們沒有那麼差"},{"start":8081.45,"end":8083.45,"text":"第二因為我們預算沒有審"},{"start":8083.45,"end":8085.45,"text":"所以我們今年沒有辦法動"},{"start":8085.45,"end":8087.45,"text":"任何一毛錢的"},{"start":8087.45,"end":8089.45,"text":"美宣費可是我們還是上半年"},{"start":8089.45,"end":8091.45,"text":"非常努力"},{"start":8092.33,"end":8094.33,"text":"第三有一個誤會就是"},{"start":8094.33,"end":8096.33,"text":"美宣費"},{"start":8096.41,"end":8098.41,"text":"是買特定媒體"},{"start":8098.41,"end":8100.41,"text":"跟那個等等"},{"start":8100.41,"end":8102.41,"text":"其實完全誤會因為美宣費是我們"},{"start":8102.41,"end":8104.41,"text":"編的所有一整年"},{"start":8104.41,"end":8106.41,"text":"需要宣傳"},{"start":8106.41,"end":8108.41,"text":"宣導的那個活動"},{"start":8108.41,"end":8110.41,"text":"包括剛剛講到文化幣"},{"start":8110.41,"end":8112.41,"text":"黃牛文博你不給我們錢"},{"start":8112.41,"end":8114.41,"text":"我們就宣導的就變得"},{"start":8114.41,"end":8116.41,"text":"很沒有力道所以我想"},{"start":8116.41,"end":8118.41,"text":"大家是一個完全誤會"},{"start":8118.41,"end":8120.41,"text":"那我想請王次講"},{"start":8120.41,"end":8122.41,"text":"一下我們這個"},{"start":8122.41,"end":8124.41,"text":"這個錢其實還有很多"},{"start":8124.41,"end":8126.41,"text":"很多的錢是讚美去拼在這裡面"},{"start":8126.41,"end":8128.41,"text":"如果你不給我們的話"},{"start":8128.41,"end":8130.41,"text":"我們真的是非常辛苦謝謝"},{"start":8132.07,"end":8134.07,"text":"各位好我大概就直接補充一下我們"},{"start":8134.07,"end":8136.07,"text":"這筆經費的內容這筆經費大概有幾個面向"},{"start":8136.07,"end":8138.07,"text":"第一個它是全"},{"start":8138.07,"end":8140.07,"text":"部本部全部各"},{"start":8140.36,"end":8142.36,"text":"各個單業務單位所需要的"},{"start":8142.36,"end":8144.36,"text":"每一天都在這一筆所以為什麼會"},{"start":8144.36,"end":8146.36,"text":"聽到很多不同的項目是因為"},{"start":8146.36,"end":8148.36,"text":"它包括了所有的業務師不管"},{"start":8148.36,"end":8150.36,"text":"是在文知師文創師影視"},{"start":8150.36,"end":8152.36,"text":"師人文師全部"},{"start":8152.36,"end":8154.36,"text":"一發師全部都在裡面所以"},{"start":8154.36,"end":8156.36,"text":"他會有什麼活動呢他會跟"},{"start":8156.36,"end":8158.36,"text":"大家的活動只要有"},{"start":8158.36,"end":8160.36,"text":"辦活動他就會動用這一"},{"start":8160.36,"end":8162.36,"text":"筆沒宣費所以沒宣費"},{"start":8162.36,"end":8164.36,"text":"是做什麼呢是做活動"},{"start":8164.36,"end":8166.36,"text":"本身的宣傳所以沒宣費"},{"start":8166.36,"end":8168.36,"text":"的目標非常清楚譬如說"},{"start":8168.36,"end":8170.36,"text":"我們辦社區營造我們要去"},{"start":8170.36,"end":8172.36,"text":"頒發獎項我們要辦"},{"start":8172.36,"end":8174.36,"text":"文博會要辦時裝周"},{"start":8174.36,"end":8176.36,"text":"要辦書展所有"},{"start":8176.36,"end":8178.36,"text":"的內容都在這一筆費用"},{"start":8178.36,"end":8180.36,"text":"裡面那第二件事是呢這一些"},{"start":8180.36,"end":8182.36,"text":"費用裡面除了包括部本部"},{"start":8182.36,"end":8184.36,"text":"原來的業務經費以外它也"},{"start":8184.36,"end":8186.36,"text":"包括了興建的這些"},{"start":8186.36,"end":8188.36,"text":"管社的宣傳譬如說我們"},{"start":8188.36,"end":8190.36,"text":"今年多了國家鐵道博物館未來"},{"start":8190.36,"end":8192.36,"text":"多了國家兒童兒衛"},{"start":8192.36,"end":8194.36,"text":"館多了國漫館國家"},{"start":8194.36,"end":8196.36,"text":"漫畫博物館這些管社的"},{"start":8196.36,"end":8198.36,"text":"活動跟籌備也全部來自於這一筆"},{"start":8198.36,"end":8200.36,"text":"沒宣費用第三個"},{"start":8200.36,"end":8202.36,"text":"剛剛提到的獎項的事情"},{"start":8202.36,"end":8204.36,"text":"我們所有的獎項都要靠"},{"start":8204.36,"end":8206.36,"text":"這個宣傳宣傳的意思是我們"},{"start":8206.36,"end":8208.36,"text":"要徵案吧要跟大家說我們要頒這個獎"},{"start":8208.36,"end":8210.36,"text":"請你們推薦請你們報名"},{"start":8210.36,"end":8212.36,"text":"這些也都在這個沒宣費"},{"start":8212.36,"end":8214.36,"text":"裡面而在金曲獎的部分"},{"start":8214.36,"end":8216.36,"text":"為什麼今年金曲獎有費用是"},{"start":8216.36,"end":8218.36,"text":"因為他是附屬單位附屬單位"},{"start":8218.36,"end":8220.36,"text":"有保留百分之四十的沒宣費"},{"start":8220.36,"end":8222.36,"text":"所以金曲獎的確拿了那去年"},{"start":8222.36,"end":8224.36,"text":"沒有刪掉的那附屬單位"},{"start":8224.36,"end":8226.36,"text":"的百分之四十沒宣費進行宣傳"},{"start":8226.36,"end":8228.36,"text":"但是問題是我們今年下半年"},{"start":8228.36,"end":8230.36,"text":"還有金鐘獎金馬獎"},{"start":8230.97,"end":8232.97,"text":"這些獎項也還要宣傳"},{"start":8232.97,"end":8234.97,"text":"所以如果沒有通過的話"},{"start":8234.97,"end":8236.97,"text":"今年下半年就那是百分之四十"},{"start":8236.97,"end":8238.97,"text":"基本上就在上半年已經用完了"},{"start":8238.97,"end":8240.97,"text":"所以我們其實是需要這個"},{"start":8240.97,"end":8242.97,"text":"沒宣費的支持"},{"start":8242.97,"end":8244.97,"text":"第三件事是委員"},{"start":8244.97,"end":8246.97,"text":"關心的就是說我們有沒有拿這個"},{"start":8246.97,"end":8248.97,"text":"筆費用"},{"start":8248.05,"end":8250.05,"text":"去採購特定的沒宣團體"},{"start":8250.05,"end":8252.05,"text":"那基本上是這樣因為他"},{"start":8252.05,"end":8254.05,"text":"辦理的單位完全不同活動也完全不同"},{"start":8254.05,"end":8256.05,"text":"所以他沒有集中採購"},{"start":8256.05,"end":8258.05,"text":"或者媒體採購的問題"},{"start":8258.05,"end":8260.05,"text":"因為自從這個媒體不能"},{"start":8260.05,"end":8262.05,"text":"禁止政府做新聞置入之後"},{"start":8262.05,"end":8264.05,"text":"我們的採購的分的策略"},{"start":8264.05,"end":8266.05,"text":"就是分散的那尤其"},{"start":8266.05,"end":8268.05,"text":"現在社群基本上是"},{"start":8268.05,"end":8270.05,"text":"一個非常重要的關鍵所以大家會看到"},{"start":8270.05,"end":8272.05,"text":"我們做很多什麼做很多圖卡"},{"start":8272.05,"end":8274.05,"text":"然後做很多點閱率的"},{"start":8274.05,"end":8276.05,"text":"這些採購意思就是說讓大家"},{"start":8276.05,"end":8278.05,"text":"透過演算法比較有機會看到"},{"start":8278.05,"end":8280.05,"text":"我們各項政策的說明"},{"start":8280.05,"end":8282.05,"text":"跟活動本身的宣傳"},{"start":8282.05,"end":8284.05,"text":"所以他的目的仍然是"},{"start":8284.05,"end":8286.05,"text":"做跟民眾相關的"},{"start":8286.05,"end":8288.05,"text":"活動宣傳包括像"},{"start":8288.05,"end":8290.05,"text":"黃牛包括像頒獎這一類"},{"start":8290.05,"end":8292.05,"text":"跟民眾生活攸關的事情"},{"start":8292.05,"end":8294.05,"text":"那最後一點是在"},{"start":8294.05,"end":8296.05,"text":"國外的部分也在這一筆沒宣費裡"},{"start":8296.05,"end":8298.05,"text":"大家都提到去年的大阪"},{"start":8298.05,"end":8300.05,"text":"市博但是大家可能不知道"},{"start":8300.05,"end":8302.05,"text":"我們今年其實有辦歐洲"},{"start":8302.05,"end":8304.05,"text":"台灣文化年那為什麼大家"},{"start":8304.05,"end":8306.05,"text":"不知道因為我們沒有宣傳"},{"start":8306.05,"end":8308.05,"text":"那我們只能透過既有的人"},{"start":8308.05,"end":8310.05,"text":"賣既有的網絡跟既有"},{"start":8310.05,"end":8312.05,"text":"的活動的人去宣傳但是"},{"start":8312.05,"end":8314.05,"text":"很明顯可以看到他的宣傳力道"},{"start":8314.05,"end":8316.05,"text":"其實差別很大所以仍然非常"},{"start":8316.05,"end":8320.05,"text":"希望委員可以支持我們這一筆沒宣的費用以上"},{"start":8324.28,"end":8326.28,"text":"好對不起我再確認一下"},{"start":8326.28,"end":8328.28,"text":"所以你的沒宣費到目前為止"},{"start":8328.28,"end":8330.28,"text":"沒有去動嘛對不對"},{"start":8330.55,"end":8332.55,"text":"沒有去做任何的使用"},{"start":8332.55,"end":8334.55,"text":"本部的部分沒有因為去年"},{"start":8334.55,"end":8336.55,"text":"三到零那因為今年動之的"},{"start":8336.55,"end":8338.55,"text":"預算是以去年的預算為基礎"},{"start":8338.55,"end":8340.55,"text":"所以像我們最近剛辦的"},{"start":8340.55,"end":8342.55,"text":"很好的這個金曲獎"},{"start":8342.55,"end":8344.55,"text":"你也沒使用這個費用沒有"},{"start":8344.55,"end":8346.55,"text":"有我剛有解釋了金曲獎是因為"},{"start":8346.55,"end":8348.55,"text":"他是附屬單位附屬單位的"},{"start":8348.55,"end":8350.55,"text":"沒宣費去年三百分之六十"},{"start":8350.55,"end":8352.55,"text":"剩百分之四十所以金曲獎"},{"start":8352.55,"end":8354.55,"text":"是用附屬單位的40%"},{"start":8354.55,"end":8356.55,"text":"所以跟這一個也無關"},{"start":8356.55,"end":8358.55,"text":"沒有關係這是不本部的"},{"start":8358.55,"end":8360.55,"text":"不本部的"},{"start":8361.47,"end":8363.47,"text":"有委員要問問題嗎沒有我要繼續問喔"},{"start":8365.77,"end":8367.77,"text":"好"},{"start":8368.12,"end":8370.12,"text":"就是"},{"start":8370.01,"end":8372.01,"text":"沒有去年大概多少國片"},{"start":8372.01,"end":8374.01,"text":"上映今年大概多少國片"},{"start":8374.01,"end":8376.01,"text":"到目前為止"},{"start":8379.68,"end":8381.68,"text":"沒關係沒關係你慢慢了解一下"},{"start":8381.68,"end":8383.68,"text":"那第二個跟那個"},{"start":8384.47,"end":8386.47,"text":"我們文化部請教一下"},{"start":8386.47,"end":8388.47,"text":"你剛說真案嘛"},{"start":8388.47,"end":8390.47,"text":"有需要用到這一個"},{"start":8390.47,"end":8392.47,"text":"沒宣費來廣遭真案"},{"start":8392.47,"end":8394.47,"text":"對吧如果辦獎項的話"},{"start":8394.47,"end":8396.47,"text":"任何的獎項跟補助都需要"},{"start":8396.47,"end":8398.47,"text":"透過沒宣宣導嘛"},{"start":8398.47,"end":8400.47,"text":"對嘛所以"},{"start":8400.47,"end":8402.47,"text":"也會用到這樣子"},{"start":8402.47,"end":8404.47,"text":"的一個真案沒宣"},{"start":8404.47,"end":8406.47,"text":"所以也跟其他的"},{"start":8406.47,"end":8408.47,"text":"補助當然不會我說真案啦"},{"start":8408.47,"end":8410.47,"text":"補助獎項不會用到補助"},{"start":8410.47,"end":8412.47,"text":"但是會用到沒宣"},{"start":8412.47,"end":8414.47,"text":"來宣導有這樣子的活動"},{"start":8415.5,"end":8417.5,"text":"不是補助案"},{"start":8417.5,"end":8419.5,"text":"補助案就是歸補助案"},{"start":8419.5,"end":8421.5,"text":"補助案沒有沒宣費的問題"},{"start":8422.39,"end":8424.39,"text":"那個"},{"start":8424.11,"end":8426.11,"text":"待會你那個資料要再補一下"},{"start":8426.25,"end":8428.25,"text":"好"},{"start":8427.43,"end":8429.43,"text":"好"},{"start":8428.34,"end":8430.34,"text":"那有沒有委員要再提出問題"},{"start":8433,"end":8435,"text":"好那我們就請委員提案"},{"start":8440.87,"end":8442.87,"text":"好我的主張是"},{"start":8442.87,"end":8444.87,"text":"趙烈給文化部門必要的"},{"start":8444.87,"end":8446.87,"text":"資源去進行相關的"},{"start":8446.87,"end":8448.87,"text":"媒體宣傳不管是對內"},{"start":8448.87,"end":8450.87,"text":"進行政策的推廣或是"},{"start":8450.87,"end":8452.87,"text":"對外來宣揚台灣的文化力"},{"start":8452.87,"end":8454.87,"text":"我支持趙烈"},{"start":8456.12,"end":8458.12,"text":"我也支持趙烈"},{"start":8458.12,"end":8460.12,"text":"建議保留"},{"start":8461.12,"end":8463.12,"text":"來陳佩儀委員"},{"start":8491.12,"end":8493.12,"text":"那一看起來沒宣費"},{"start":8493.12,"end":8495.12,"text":"也花了很多在這兩個館"},{"start":8495.12,"end":8497.12,"text":"的籌備前期"},{"start":8497.12,"end":8499.12,"text":"那因為我自己一直很關心這兩個館"},{"start":8499.12,"end":8501.12,"text":"所以我剛剛聽到的時候我其實還蠻壓抑"},{"start":8501.12,"end":8503.12,"text":"就謝謝文化部這麼用心"},{"start":8503.12,"end":8505.12,"text":"在這兩個館籌備前期花了這麼多"},{"start":8505.12,"end":8507.12,"text":"精力跟預算還有"},{"start":8507.12,"end":8509.12,"text":"時間去辦這樣的活動"},{"start":8509.12,"end":8511.12,"text":"所以我支持趙烈"},{"start":8513.15,"end":8515.15,"text":"這個主席"},{"start":8515.15,"end":8517.15,"text":"我也是希望說文化部這筆美宣費"},{"start":8517.15,"end":8519.15,"text":"因為如同我剛剛講的包括台北書展"},{"start":8519.15,"end":8521.15,"text":"包括台北時裝週"},{"start":8521.15,"end":8523.15,"text":"包括我們打擊黃牛"},{"start":8523.15,"end":8525.15,"text":"演唱會的票詐騙情侶"},{"start":8525.15,"end":8527.15,"text":"這些的宣傳都需要這些"},{"start":8527.15,"end":8529.15,"text":"美宣費那剛剛其實我們不同"}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7.67,"text":"我覺得這才是大家"},{"start":8987.67,"end":8989.67,"text":"尊重彼此的做法"},{"start":8989.67,"end":8991.67,"text":"對不起現在再麻煩巫師要委員"},{"start":8991.67,"end":8993.67,"text":"您說多少"},{"start":8995.32,"end":8997.32,"text":"個人是希望照列"},{"start":8997.32,"end":8999.32,"text":"但是剛剛尊重大家我們就是協調出"},{"start":8999.32,"end":9001.32,"text":"跟蔡村首委員跟知恩委員"},{"start":9001.32,"end":9003.32,"text":"是三百萬的凍結"},{"start":9003.82,"end":9005.82,"text":"提出書面資料使得動支"},{"start":9008.62,"end":9010.62,"text":"我覺得還是要尊重提案委員"},{"start":9010.62,"end":9012.62,"text":"所以那個"},{"start":9012.62,"end":9014.62,"text":"召委要不要先休息一下"},{"start":9014.62,"end":9016.62,"text":"問問汪曉雲委員的意見"},{"start":9016.62,"end":9018.62,"text":"以上"},{"start":9018.62,"end":9020.62,"text":"他如果真的這麼在意他就應該全程在現場"},{"start":9020.62,"end":9022.62,"text":"所有今天朝野的"},{"start":9022.62,"end":9024.62,"text":"教文委員都在這裡兩個小時"},{"start":9024.62,"end":9026.62,"text":"為什麼不尊重在場的"},{"start":9026.62,"end":9028.62,"text":"為什麼不尊重"},{"start":9028.62,"end":9030.62,"text":"在場的所有教文本委的委員"},{"start":9030.62,"end":9032.62,"text":"我們經過這麼多的討論"},{"start":9032.62,"end":9034.62,"text":"剛剛文化部也做了說明"},{"start":9034.62,"end":9036.62,"text":"那主席你為什麼乾脆不表決呢"},{"start":9036.62,"end":9038.62,"text":"為什麼還要等提案委員"},{"start":9038.62,"end":9040.62,"text":"而且兩個連署的委員也在現場"},{"start":9040.62,"end":9042.62,"text":"教文委員會照往例"},{"start":9042.62,"end":9044.62,"text":"預算的部分很少在表決"},{"start":9044.62,"end":9046.62,"text":"主席教文委員會照往例"},{"start":9046.62,"end":9048.62,"text":"只要是提案人不在通常"},{"start":9048.62,"end":9050.62,"text":"您都照列"},{"start":9050.62,"end":9052.62,"text":"我們昨天審總預算也都是這樣的模式"},{"start":9052.62,"end":9054.62,"text":"對不對主席"},{"start":9054.62,"end":9056.62,"text":"提案委員不在就沒有處理了"},{"start":9056.62,"end":9058.62,"text":"但是在處理"},{"start":9058.62,"end":9060.62,"text":"那如果你要說完全提案委員都不在"},{"start":9060.62,"end":9062.62,"text":"昨天臨時提案"},{"start":9062.62,"end":9064.62,"text":"提案委員也不在啊我們簽署的也都還在"},{"start":9064.62,"end":9066.62,"text":"也還是處理啦"},{"start":9066.62,"end":9068.62,"text":"那我基本上"},{"start":9068.62,"end":9070.62,"text":"我很簡單現在已經說了"},{"start":9070.62,"end":9072.62,"text":"有提案委員說"},{"start":9072.62,"end":9074.62,"text":"要三百萬我尊重"},{"start":9074.62,"end":9076.62,"text":"那還有沒有其他委員有意見"},{"start":9076.62,"end":9078.62,"text":"我們支持"},{"start":9078.62,"end":9080.62,"text":"因為我們沒有表決"},{"start":9080.62,"end":9082.62,"text":"我們基本上是共識決"},{"start":9082.62,"end":9084.62,"text":"所以基本上我要問一下安文委員"},{"start":9084.62,"end":9086.62,"text":"沒有意見的話我們就要照"},{"start":9086.62,"end":9088.62,"text":"剛剛提的三百萬凍結"},{"start":9091.99,"end":9093.99,"text":"我有意見"},{"start":9094.85,"end":9096.85,"text":"這個就不好意思"},{"start":9098.47,"end":9100.47,"text":"主席可以先休息一下"},{"start":9100.47,"end":9102.47,"text":"我們就先休息五分鐘"},{"start":9102.47,"end":9104.47,"text":"我們都會委員"},{"start":9104.47,"end":9106.47,"text":"因為我們是共識決"},{"start":9106.47,"end":9108.47,"text":"不是多數決"},{"start":9108.47,"end":9110.47,"text":"共識決就是大家的共識"},{"start":9110.47,"end":9112.47,"text":"不能排除某些委員"},{"start":9112.47,"end":9114.47,"text":"你不要有趣意思"},{"start":9114.47,"end":9116.47,"text":"講完話就走了"},{"start":9116.47,"end":9118.47,"text":"大家想想"},{"start":9118.47,"end":9120.47,"text":"他都沒有去"},{"start":9120.47,"end":9122.47,"text":"還有第二輪可以去討論"},{"start":9122.47,"end":9124.47,"text":"讓主管機關"},{"start":9124.47,"end":9126.47,"text":"去跟提案委員來溝通"},{"start":9126.47,"end":9128.47,"text":"抱歉我要捍衛本港委員"},{"start":9128.47,"end":9130.47,"text":"今天的提案跟爭議"},{"start":9130.47,"end":9134.47,"text":"那請主席休息一下"},{"start":9134.47,"end":9136.47,"text":"跟國小委員溝通"},{"start":9136.47,"end":9138.47,"text":"有這麼困難嗎"},{"start":9138.47,"end":9140.47,"text":"那如果大家溝通"},{"start":9140.47,"end":9142.47,"text":"為什麼要去找"},{"start":9142.47,"end":9144.47,"text":"為什麼要去找"},{"start":9144.47,"end":9146.47,"text":"如果他真的這麼在意"},{"start":9146.47,"end":9148.47,"text":"這件事情在這裡吧"},{"start":9148.47,"end":9150.47,"text":"我們都已經好不容易討論到這樣了"},{"start":9150.47,"end":9152.47,"text":"他為什麼自己快要自首表決"},{"start":9152.47,"end":9154.47,"text":"可是以往的慣例"},{"start":9154.47,"end":9156.47,"text":"現在教文委員都坐在這裡"},{"start":9156.47,"end":9158.47,"text":"就因為他"},{"start":9158.47,"end":9160.47,"text":"我們不希望打破以往慣例"},{"start":9160.47,"end":9162.47,"text":"所以目前為止我們先休息"},{"start":9162.47,"end":9164.47,"text":"提案委員不在是不予處理的"},{"start":9164.47,"end":9166.47,"text":"我再說一次以往的慣例"},{"start":9166.47,"end":9168.47,"text":"叫做如果提案的委員不在是不予處理的"},{"start":9168.47,"end":9170.47,"text":"可是今天所有朝野的教文委員"},{"start":9170.47,"end":9172.47,"text":"都坐在這裡"},{"start":9172.47,"end":9174.47,"text":"主席你就決定採用一個人的意見"},{"start":9174.47,"end":9176.47,"text":"這不叫共識嗎"},{"start":9176.77,"end":9178.77,"text":"共識叫做剛剛已經三百萬凍結主席"},{"start":9213.29,"end":9215.29,"text":"村村委員藍冬及其"},{"start":9268.49,"end":9270.49,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9274.48,"end":9276.48,"text":"你們家一就來啊一不來"},{"start":9276.57,"end":9278.57,"text":"兩位小姐"},{"start":9348.11,"end":9352.11,"text":"他這樣下去我們真的會被人家想了"},{"start":9352.11,"end":9354.11,"text":"他會一直這樣打"},{"start":9354.11,"end":9356.11,"text":"我說如果他真的這麼打你來的話"},{"start":9356.11,"end":9358.11,"text":"你怎麼可能"},{"start":9358.11,"end":9360.11,"text":"他一定會打"},{"start":9360.11,"end":9362.11,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9362.11,"end":9364.11,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9364.11,"end":9366.11,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9371.61,"end":9373.61,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9373.57,"end":9375.57,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9375.63,"end":9377.63,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9377.63,"end":9379.63,"text":"因為他講的是後面的"},{"start":9379.63,"end":9381.63,"text":"現在講的是主導"},{"start":9382.31,"end":9384.31,"text":"還有光源電視他們以前會在後面"},{"start":9384.31,"end":9386.31,"text":"我想要在這一關去考慮"},{"start":9387.59,"end":9389.59,"text":"這案子會不會顯得更難"},{"start":9389.59,"end":9391.59,"text":"因為他凍結了我"},{"start":9391.59,"end":9393.59,"text":"他就打你來"},{"start":9395.34,"end":9397.34,"text":"這樣我會來得及嗎"},{"start":9398.65,"end":9400.65,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9415.57,"end":9417.57,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9417.95,"end":9419.95,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9433.34,"end":9435.34,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9447.84,"end":9449.84,"text":"兩間故港的成立案"},{"start":9449.84,"end":9451.84,"text":"兩間故港的成立案"},{"start":9454.76,"end":9456.76,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9461.56,"end":9463.56,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9464.61,"end":9466.61,"text":"如果我又有增加會來"},{"start":9466.61,"end":9468.61,"text":"第一次會有增加"},{"start":9468.61,"end":9470.61,"text":"那是交通管理的"},{"start":9470.61,"end":9472.61,"text":"那就是陳樹月台的一個現場"},{"start":9474.85,"end":9476.85,"text":"不知道啦"},{"start":9476.85,"end":9478.85,"text":"我們都很清楚"},{"start":9478.85,"end":9480.85,"text":"不然他管他別人的情緒"},{"start":9480.85,"end":9482.85,"text":"這樣說我在板橋我就不看板橋"},{"start":9482.85,"end":9484.85,"text":"幹嘛"},{"start":9484.85,"end":9486.85,"text":"看到中國去"},{"start":9486.89,"end":9488.89,"text":"看這條拉過來"},{"start":9488.89,"end":9490.89,"text":"看這條拉過來"},{"start":9490.89,"end":9492.89,"text":"我知道"},{"start":9492.89,"end":9494.89,"text":"現場還不一定看得到"},{"start":9494.89,"end":9496.89,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":9497.82,"end":9499.82,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9504.89,"end":9506.89,"text":"全部的黑茶"},{"start":9506.89,"end":9508.89,"text":"全部黑茶"},{"start":9510.07,"end":9512.07,"text":"因為我剛才是我的女婿"},{"start":9512.07,"end":9514.07,"text":"剛才是我的小孩"},{"start":9514.07,"end":9516.07,"text":"我小孩來的"},{"start":9516.07,"end":9518.07,"text":"那天我們就討論消息"},{"start":9522.81,"end":9524.81,"text":"他來了"},{"start":9524.81,"end":9526.81,"text":"我小孩來了"},{"start":9526.81,"end":9528.81,"text":"來了好"},{"start":9528.81,"end":9530.81,"text":"好"},{"start":9530.81,"end":9532.81,"text":"主長"},{"start":9532.81,"end":9534.81,"text":"歡迎"},{"start":9534.81,"end":9536.81,"text":"跟他談生意"},{"start":9536.81,"end":9538.81,"text":"真的"},{"start":9538.81,"end":9540.81,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9542.27,"end":9544.27,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9579.01,"end":9581.01,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9581.57,"end":9583.57,"text":"今天真的很高興"},{"start":9583.57,"end":9585.57,"text":"還有電影的故事"},{"start":9585.57,"end":9587.57,"text":"還有公司"},{"start":9587.57,"end":9589.57,"text":"台灣公司"},{"start":9589.57,"end":9591.57,"text":"我們可能再多一次"},{"start":9591.57,"end":9593.57,"text":"因為我們要再生的話要多兩年"},{"start":9593.57,"end":9595.57,"text":"對"},{"start":9595.57,"end":9597.57,"text":"浪費人民的公帑"},{"start":9599.31,"end":9601.31,"text":"我們想找一個人進場"},{"start":9602.82,"end":9604.82,"text":"機會是一個圓形"},{"start":9605.65,"end":9607.65,"text":"為什麼他們要跟你溝通的時候你不跟他們溝通"},{"start":9607.65,"end":9609.65,"text":"為什麼他們要跟你溝通的時候你不跟他們溝通"},{"start":9609.65,"end":9611.65,"text":"是叫什麼"},{"start":9611.65,"end":9613.65,"text":"他們沒有跟你們辦公室約嗎"},{"start":9613.65,"end":9615.65,"text":"確定都沒有約"},{"start":9627.83,"end":9629.83,"text":"文化部也不屑溝通"},{"start":9630.43,"end":9632.43,"text":"文化部也不屑溝通嗎"},{"start":9632.43,"end":9634.43,"text":"所以你們要部長等級才可以去嗎"},{"start":9634.43,"end":9636.43,"text":"所以你們要部長等級才可以去嗎"},{"start":9636.43,"end":9638.43,"text":"要部長等級嗎"},{"start":9638.43,"end":9640.43,"text":"因為你就複製貼上什麼要刪就刪"},{"start":9640.43,"end":9642.43,"text":"因為你就複製貼上什麼要刪就刪"},{"start":9642.43,"end":9644.43,"text":"你不是只有刪文化部"},{"start":9644.43,"end":9646.43,"text":"你要不要去看你的版本"},{"start":9646.43,"end":9648.43,"text":"你會三運算嗎"},{"start":9648.43,"end":9650.43,"text":"你不是只有三運算嗎"},{"start":9650.43,"end":9652.43,"text":"剛剛文化部在說明你人有在現場嗎"},{"start":9652.43,"end":9654.43,"text":"文化部都說四千多萬什麼花你現在在聽嗎"},{"start":9654.43,"end":9656.43,"text":"今天是北海道月神案"},{"start":9656.43,"end":9658.43,"text":"我們等一下請文化部再報告一次給你聽"},{"start":9658.43,"end":9660.43,"text":"這些沒學費用到了哪裡去了"},{"start":9660.43,"end":9662.43,"text":"報告說你也在嗎"},{"start":9662.43,"end":9664.43,"text":"整個教文院你這個案子討論兩個小時"},{"start":9664.43,"end":9666.43,"text":"請問你有在嗎"},{"start":9666.43,"end":9668.43,"text":"我們等一下讓文化部講給你聽"},{"start":9668.43,"end":9670.43,"text":"我們等一下讓文化部講給你聽"},{"start":9670.43,"end":9672.43,"text":"你們是立委嗎"},{"start":9672.43,"end":9674.43,"text":"我們當然是立委啊"},{"start":9674.43,"end":9676.43,"text":"當然是啊"},{"start":9853.08,"end":9855.08,"text":"文化殺手"},{"start":9855.08,"end":9857.08,"text":"你是大屆人殺手"},{"start":9857.08,"end":9859.08,"text":"你不知天上"},{"start":9859.08,"end":9861.08,"text":"是非法思想的文化殺手"},{"start":9861.08,"end":9863.08,"text":"濫用公帑"},{"start":9863.08,"end":9865.08,"text":"你的標準在哪裡"},{"start":9865.08,"end":9867.08,"text":"哪裏造成負面分擔"},{"start":9867.08,"end":9869.08,"text":"你可以提案質"},{"start":9869.08,"end":9871.08,"text":"你可以明擺公式講出來嗎"},{"start":9871.08,"end":9873.08,"text":"你可以講出來嗎"},{"start":9873.08,"end":9875.08,"text":"你沒有一條具體的講出來"},{"start":9875.08,"end":9877.08,"text":"你沒有一條具體的講出來"},{"start":9877.08,"end":9879.08,"text":"你全部都是用一個非常rough的說法"},{"start":9879.08,"end":9881.08,"text":"所以我就問"},{"start":9881.08,"end":9883.08,"text":"你覺得哪一條是不對你就點出來"},{"start":9883.08,"end":9885.08,"text":"可是你到目前為止我還是"},{"start":9885.08,"end":9887.08,"text":"沒有看到歐委員點出哪一條"},{"start":9887.08,"end":9889.08,"text":"可是剛剛所有坐在這裡委員"},{"start":9889.08,"end":9891.08,"text":"只要認證都可以聽出來"},{"start":9891.08,"end":9893.08,"text":"文化部的報告已經講了沒學費"},{"start":9893.08,"end":9895.08,"text":"部分部的沒學費四千多萬"},{"start":9895.08,"end":9897.08,"text":"是用在哪些部分"},{"start":9897.08,"end":9899.08,"text":"連金曲獎部分剛剛連部長都說明"},{"start":9899.08,"end":9901.08,"text":"可是很可惜歐委員不在現場"},{"start":10055.7,"end":10057.7,"text":"你跟陸委會你都是同一"},{"start":10088.38,"end":10090.38,"text":"地方"},{"start":10089.82,"end":10091.82,"text":"你到現在沒有提出來耶"},{"start":10108.75,"end":10110.75,"text":"跟委員報告一下在等部長"},{"start":10110.75,"end":10112.75,"text":"部長現在"},{"start":10112.75,"end":10114.75,"text":"應該在洗手間好不好"},{"start":10114.75,"end":10116.75,"text":"所以不是我們不開"},{"start":10116.75,"end":10118.75,"text":"是等部長"},{"start":10146.76,"end":10148.76,"text":"是"},{"start":10152.73,"end":10154.73,"text":"好現在繼續改位"},{"start":10155.29,"end":10157.29,"text":"好請多指教委員發言"},{"start":10157.37,"end":10159.37,"text":"好"},{"start":10188.55,"end":10190.55,"text":"請部長說明"},{"start":10218.55,"end":10220.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10220.55,"end":10222.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10222.55,"end":10224.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10224.55,"end":10226.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10226.55,"end":10228.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10228.55,"end":10230.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10230.55,"end":10232.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10232.55,"end":10234.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10234.55,"end":10236.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10236.55,"end":10238.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10238.55,"end":10240.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10240.55,"end":10242.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10242.55,"end":10244.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10244.55,"end":10246.55,"text":"好"},{"start":10240.29,"end":10242.29,"text":"歐小林委員完再羅志祥委員"},{"start":10243.57,"end":10245.57,"text":"好"},{"start":10245.57,"end":10247.57,"text":"剛剛部長自己也說"},{"start":10247.57,"end":10249.57,"text":"在去年沒學費一毛錢都沒有"},{"start":10249.57,"end":10251.57,"text":"情況之下他們都做得這麼好"},{"start":10251.57,"end":10253.57,"text":"所以這更讓我認為說"},{"start":10253.57,"end":10255.57,"text":"既然去年都能夠做得這麼好"},{"start":10255.57,"end":10257.57,"text":"那麼為什麼今年還要花"},{"start":10257.57,"end":10259.57,"text":"四千七百三十八萬"},{"start":10259.57,"end":10261.57,"text":"去做沒學"},{"start":10261.57,"end":10263.57,"text":"我知道其實部長"},{"start":10263.57,"end":10265.57,"text":"也很認真地想要為"},{"start":10265.57,"end":10267.57,"text":"文化做好的這個宣傳"},{"start":10267.57,"end":10269.57,"text":"做沒學"},{"start":10269.57,"end":10271.57,"text":"那麼在座的這個民進黨的委員"},{"start":10271.57,"end":10273.57,"text":"每一個人都可以幫忙做沒學"},{"start":10273.57,"end":10275.57,"text":"那既然是如此的話"},{"start":10275.57,"end":10277.57,"text":"那麼為什麼"},{"start":10277.55,"end":10279.55,"text":"非得一定"},{"start":10279.41,"end":10281.41,"text":"要花錢"},{"start":10281.41,"end":10283.41,"text":"去做沒學"},{"start":10283.41,"end":10285.41,"text":"要這個"},{"start":10284.59,"end":10286.59,"text":"花大筆錢"},{"start":10286.59,"end":10288.59,"text":"剛剛羅志祥委員這邊"},{"start":10288.59,"end":10290.59,"text":"他本來他是簡列兩千多萬"},{"start":10290.59,"end":10292.59,"text":"那我是全山兩千多萬"},{"start":10292.59,"end":10294.59,"text":"那麼如果說我們今天"},{"start":10294.59,"end":10296.59,"text":"要給文化部"},{"start":10296.59,"end":10298.59,"text":"一些鼓勵一些肯定"},{"start":10298.59,"end":10300.59,"text":"讓部長少寫幾篇"},{"start":10300.59,"end":10302.59,"text":"這個臉書貼文"},{"start":10302.59,"end":10304.59,"text":"那我也可以某種程度的"},{"start":10304.59,"end":10306.59,"text":"支持"},{"start":10306.54,"end":10308.54,"text":"我本來是"},{"start":10308.54,"end":10310.54,"text":"全山四千七百三十八萬"},{"start":10313.08,"end":10315.08,"text":"那我們就三個四千七百萬"},{"start":10315.08,"end":10317.08,"text":"讓這個部長"},{"start":10317.08,"end":10319.08,"text":"這個少辛苦一點"},{"start":10319.36,"end":10321.36,"text":"是不是"},{"start":10322.78,"end":10324.78,"text":"活動都已經包含"},{"start":10324.78,"end":10326.78,"text":"這活動的文宣"},{"start":10326.78,"end":10328.78,"text":"都已經是包含在"},{"start":10328.78,"end":10330.78,"text":"各個補助的項目裡面了"},{"start":10330.78,"end":10332.78,"text":"所以即便是今天"},{"start":10332.78,"end":10334.78,"text":"你文化部沒有針對金曲獎"},{"start":10334.78,"end":10336.78,"text":"金鐘獎去做"},{"start":10336.78,"end":10338.78,"text":"行銷可是我看到"},{"start":10338.78,"end":10340.78,"text":"台視等等這些媒體"},{"start":10340.78,"end":10342.78,"text":"都還是有宣傳"},{"start":10344.37,"end":10346.37,"text":"所以這並不影響到你們"},{"start":10346.37,"end":10348.37,"text":"文化部的媒學"},{"start":10349.58,"end":10351.58,"text":"吳佩奕委員"},{"start":10351.58,"end":10353.58,"text":"請不要干擾別人的發言"},{"start":10353.58,"end":10355.58,"text":"吳佩奕委員"},{"start":10355.58,"end":10357.58,"text":"請不要干擾別人的發言"},{"start":10357.58,"end":10359.58,"text":"吳佩奕委員"},{"start":10359.58,"end":10361.58,"text":"請不要干擾別人的發言"},{"start":10361.58,"end":10363.58,"text":"吳佩奕委員"},{"start":10363.58,"end":10365.58,"text":"請不要干擾別人的發言"},{"start":10365.58,"end":10367.58,"text":"他繼續發怒啊"},{"start":10367.58,"end":10369.58,"text":"你要發言你待會舉手發言"},{"start":10369.58,"end":10371.58,"text":"你不要干擾別人"},{"start":10371.58,"end":10373.58,"text":"你的格調就是如此"},{"start":10373.58,"end":10375.58,"text":"我也很佩服"},{"start":10375.58,"end":10377.58,"text":"我也沒有辦法我就是不一樣"},{"start":10377.58,"end":10379.58,"text":"至少吳委員"},{"start":10379.58,"end":10381.58,"text":"從頭到尾也有說出一個具體的理由"},{"start":10381.58,"end":10383.58,"text":"把美用比較高級"},{"start":10383.58,"end":10385.58,"text":"吳小林"},{"start":10385.58,"end":10387.58,"text":"都是看仔細"},{"start":10387.58,"end":10389.58,"text":"剛剛羅志祥委員"},{"start":10389.58,"end":10391.58,"text":"又提了他的提案"},{"start":10391.58,"end":10393.58,"text":"我想我們就可以綜合一起來討論"},{"start":10393.49,"end":10395.49,"text":"我剛要舉手囉主席"},{"start":10396.41,"end":10398.41,"text":"好 羅志祥委員請發言"},{"start":10398.41,"end":10400.41,"text":"不好意思我剛剛有宣告"},{"start":10400.41,"end":10402.41,"text":"我剛剛有先宣告"},{"start":10402.41,"end":10404.41,"text":"我先講幾個點啦"},{"start":10404.41,"end":10406.41,"text":"第一個我的原則當然是"},{"start":10406.41,"end":10408.41,"text":"我尊重提案委員"},{"start":10408.41,"end":10410.41,"text":"所以汪小林委員的提案必須尊重"},{"start":10410.41,"end":10412.41,"text":"那第二個我也有自己的提案在"},{"start":10412.41,"end":10414.41,"text":"雖然汪小林委員不是教文的委員"},{"start":10414.41,"end":10416.41,"text":"我們教文委員當然"},{"start":10416.41,"end":10418.41,"text":"有一些意見的表達"},{"start":10418.41,"end":10420.41,"text":"我們剛剛也做了很多的討論"},{"start":10420.41,"end":10422.41,"text":"但是即便汪小林委員他的意見"},{"start":10422.41,"end":10424.41,"text":"今天在這邊就算不處理"},{"start":10424.41,"end":10426.41,"text":"還是有我的案子"},{"start":10426.41,"end":10428.41,"text":"第七案可以作為一個處理的依據"},{"start":10428.41,"end":10430.41,"text":"那"},{"start":10430.41,"end":10432.41,"text":"因為鑑於剛上午已經討論了非常多"},{"start":10432.41,"end":10434.41,"text":"我這邊有一個具體的建議"},{"start":10434.41,"end":10436.41,"text":"就是因為還有第二輪"},{"start":10436.41,"end":10438.41,"text":"所以我可以把"},{"start":10438.41,"end":10440.41,"text":"這個簡列兩千五百萬"},{"start":10440.41,"end":10442.41,"text":"先把它改成凍結"},{"start":10442.41,"end":10444.41,"text":"兩千五百萬"},{"start":10444.41,"end":10446.41,"text":"然後接下來我再請文化部"},{"start":10446.41,"end":10448.41,"text":"你們說過你們有總表過來嗎"},{"start":10448.41,"end":10450.41,"text":"總表過來跟我溝通"},{"start":10450.41,"end":10452.41,"text":"還有第二輪的部分"},{"start":10452.41,"end":10454.41,"text":"跟文化部繼續溝通"},{"start":10454.41,"end":10456.41,"text":"所以現在先"},{"start":10456.41,"end":10458.41,"text":"這個案子我是有這樣的提議"},{"start":10458.41,"end":10460.41,"text":"那如果說文化部還是有什麼意見的話"},{"start":10460.41,"end":10462.41,"text":"也歡迎提出來"},{"start":10462.41,"end":10464.41,"text":"因為我剛剛看到"},{"start":10464.41,"end":10466.41,"text":"不管是柯志銘委員蔡春柔委員"},{"start":10466.41,"end":10468.41,"text":"但是我"},{"start":10468.41,"end":10470.41,"text":"先講我的案子"},{"start":10470.41,"end":10472.41,"text":"不管怎麼說"},{"start":10472.41,"end":10474.41,"text":"三百兩千五百萬你都可以來溝通"},{"start":10474.41,"end":10476.41,"text":"因為我就是沒有看到"},{"start":10476.41,"end":10478.41,"text":"剛剛我們討論的那個"},{"start":10478.41,"end":10480.41,"text":"剛剛講幾個原則公信力跟透明度"},{"start":10480.41,"end":10482.41,"text":"抱歉公信力我還沒被說服"},{"start":10482.41,"end":10484.41,"text":"原則兩案雖然是別的案子"},{"start":10484.41,"end":10486.41,"text":"但累積的是文化部公信力"},{"start":10486.41,"end":10488.41,"text":"但是第二個透明度的部分"},{"start":10488.41,"end":10490.41,"text":"既然你們要補那把透明度補清楚以後"},{"start":10490.41,"end":10492.41,"text":"我們再來溝通嘛"},{"start":10492.41,"end":10494.41,"text":"那我剛剛看到今天柯志銘委員跟蔡春柔委員"},{"start":10494.41,"end":10496.41,"text":"他是從文化部的"},{"start":10496.41,"end":10498.41,"text":"所謂的運作的角度來看"},{"start":10498.41,"end":10500.41,"text":"所以他給了所謂的"},{"start":10500.41,"end":10502.41,"text":"凍結三百萬的這個空間"},{"start":10502.41,"end":10504.41,"text":"那這個出發點我覺得也有他的道理"},{"start":10504.41,"end":10506.41,"text":"但是"},{"start":10506.41,"end":10508.41,"text":"也不能說因此汪小林委員的"},{"start":10508.41,"end":10510.41,"text":"出發點沒有道理或我的出發點沒有道理"},{"start":10510.41,"end":10512.41,"text":"所以如果大家覺得可以的話"},{"start":10512.41,"end":10514.41,"text":"我們在凍結數字上"},{"start":10514.41,"end":10516.41,"text":"大家可以提出一些意見"},{"start":10516.41,"end":10518.41,"text":"那我也請文化部先來進行"},{"start":10518.41,"end":10520.41,"text":"跟汪小林委員的溝通跟我的溝通"},{"start":10520.41,"end":10522.41,"text":"因為終究還有第二輪"},{"start":10522.41,"end":10524.41,"text":"所以即便說今天教文委員會"},{"start":10524.41,"end":10526.41,"text":"我們這邊第一輪處理的話你本來就"},{"start":10526.41,"end":10528.41,"text":"還是要溝通以上我的建議"},{"start":10528.41,"end":10530.41,"text":"那大家提供參考謝謝"},{"start":10534.23,"end":10536.23,"text":"好陳佩儀委員請發言"},{"start":10564.23,"end":10566.23,"text":"請發言"},{"start":10594.23,"end":10596.23,"text":"雖然過去教文委員會的慣例"},{"start":10596.23,"end":10598.23,"text":"不一定要表決"},{"start":10598.23,"end":10600.23,"text":"大家可以協商大家可以有共識"},{"start":10600.23,"end":10602.23,"text":"但是今天這個題目"},{"start":10602.23,"end":10604.23,"text":"看起來我認為不會有"},{"start":10604.23,"end":10606.23,"text":"共識還有我要說"},{"start":10606.23,"end":10608.23,"text":"過去的立法院也從來"},{"start":10608.23,"end":10610.23,"text":"不會有一個不休會的這一屆"},{"start":10610.23,"end":10612.23,"text":"而這一屆在張其凱"},{"start":10612.23,"end":10614.23,"text":"委員證實下是為了"},{"start":10614.23,"end":10616.23,"text":"幫很多在野黨委員開"},{"start":10616.23,"end":10618.23,"text":"司法保護傘所以開啟了從來"},{"start":10618.23,"end":10620.23,"text":"沒有的慣例叫做從來不休會"},{"start":10620.23,"end":10622.23,"text":"既然院會本體"},{"start":10622.23,"end":10624.23,"text":"可以打破很多的慣例我想"},{"start":10624.23,"end":10626.23,"text":"教文也可以打破慣例所以我"},{"start":10626.23,"end":10628.23,"text":"再次重申我要求表決"},{"start":10630.18,"end":10632.18,"text":"這邊好"},{"start":10631.29,"end":10633.29,"text":"我剛先舉手了"},{"start":10634.67,"end":10636.67,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10635.64,"end":10637.64,"text":"在你之前那個郭一行有"},{"start":10637.64,"end":10639.64,"text":"不好意思那是上一階段的"},{"start":10639.64,"end":10641.64,"text":"我剛剛都有在注意看郭一行委員"},{"start":10641.64,"end":10643.64,"text":"這邊其實我也"},{"start":10643.64,"end":10645.64,"text":"呃"},{"start":10645.64,"end":10647.64,"text":"就是剛剛陳佩儀委員所講的"},{"start":10647.64,"end":10649.64,"text":"雖然這個在教文其實我們要"},{"start":10649.64,"end":10651.64,"text":"表決這件事情幾乎是"},{"start":10651.64,"end":10653.64,"text":"從來沒有過"},{"start":10653.65,"end":10655.65,"text":"但是我想既然大家對於這一條"},{"start":10655.65,"end":10657.65,"text":"有這麼大的一個分歧"},{"start":10657.65,"end":10659.65,"text":"那我是不是"},{"start":10659.65,"end":10661.65,"text":"要求也請"},{"start":10661.65,"end":10663.65,"text":"召委來才是"},{"start":10663.65,"end":10665.65,"text":"如果有異議的話依照"},{"start":10665.65,"end":10667.65,"text":"議事規則第32條"},{"start":10667.65,"end":10669.65,"text":"我們有表示異議那是不是"},{"start":10669.65,"end":10671.65,"text":"可以就進行表決"},{"start":10671.65,"end":10673.65,"text":"進行表決那"},{"start":10673.65,"end":10675.65,"text":"我的主張是"},{"start":10675.65,"end":10677.65,"text":"就是召列"},{"start":10677.65,"end":10679.65,"text":"那如果大家覺得要"},{"start":10679.65,"end":10681.65,"text":"召列有異議那我們就來進行"},{"start":10681.65,"end":10683.65,"text":"表決可以嗎好以上"},{"start":10687.81,"end":10689.81,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10691.64,"end":10693.64,"text":"對啊"},{"start":10693.64,"end":10695.64,"text":"那個秀二委員因為你又是在"},{"start":10695.64,"end":10697.64,"text":"翁曉琳後面了"},{"start":10697.64,"end":10699.64,"text":"沒有在她舉之前我就先"},{"start":10699.64,"end":10701.64,"text":"好讓你先讓你先"},{"start":10702.35,"end":10704.35,"text":"謝謝主席喔"},{"start":10704.35,"end":10706.35,"text":"那其實剛才文化部跟"},{"start":10706.35,"end":10708.35,"text":"我們委員們的討論"},{"start":10708.35,"end":10710.35,"text":"關於美宣費的運用業務宣導費的運用"},{"start":10710.35,"end":10712.35,"text":"其實大家剛才已經有討論過了"},{"start":10712.35,"end":10714.35,"text":"但是剛才翁委員不在"},{"start":10714.35,"end":10716.35,"text":"然後呢我"},{"start":10716.35,"end":10718.35,"text":"在聽翁委員的"},{"start":10718.35,"end":10720.35,"text":"發言跟部長的發言"},{"start":10720.35,"end":10722.35,"text":"我覺得這中間有一個誤解在"},{"start":10722.35,"end":10724.35,"text":"部長說"},{"start":10724.35,"end":10726.35,"text":"我們去年的美宣費都被刪掉了"},{"start":10726.35,"end":10728.35,"text":"但是我們依然"},{"start":10728.35,"end":10730.35,"text":"用心的把業務做得很好"},{"start":10730.35,"end":10732.35,"text":"您的很好是"},{"start":10732.35,"end":10734.35,"text":"你們很用心你們態度很認真"},{"start":10734.35,"end":10736.35,"text":"雖然沒有美宣費"},{"start":10736.35,"end":10738.35,"text":"你們還是努力的不管是去募款的"},{"start":10738.35,"end":10740.35,"text":"不管是在各方面"},{"start":10740.35,"end":10742.35,"text":"或是你們自己本身去宣傳相關的"},{"start":10742.35,"end":10744.35,"text":"業務你們的很好是用心的"},{"start":10744.35,"end":10746.35,"text":"在做到很好"},{"start":10746.35,"end":10748.35,"text":"但是翁委員的誤解是說"},{"start":10748.35,"end":10750.35,"text":"沒有美宣費你們一樣能做"},{"start":10750.35,"end":10752.35,"text":"沒有美宣費你們一樣把業務"},{"start":10752.35,"end":10754.35,"text":"做得很圓滿他的誤解"},{"start":10754.35,"end":10756.35,"text":"在於你所說的態度"},{"start":10756.35,"end":10758.35,"text":"很好他說的是沒有錢"},{"start":10758.35,"end":10760.35,"text":"但是你們一樣能做事"},{"start":10760.35,"end":10762.35,"text":"我想這是翁委員"},{"start":10762.35,"end":10764.35,"text":"翁小林委員對部長"},{"start":10764.35,"end":10766.35,"text":"所表達的這個好"},{"start":10766.35,"end":10768.35,"text":"是有誤解的"},{"start":10768.35,"end":10770.35,"text":"那我想這個都不用說"},{"start":10770.73,"end":10772.73,"text":"我們開車也要加油"},{"start":10772.73,"end":10774.73,"text":"你馬而跑也要馬而吃草"},{"start":10774.73,"end":10776.73,"text":"這個很基本很基本的道理"},{"start":10776.73,"end":10778.73,"text":"我想您不是不知道"},{"start":10778.73,"end":10780.73,"text":"你只是一直要用"},{"start":10780.73,"end":10782.73,"text":"部長所表達出來的用心"},{"start":10782.73,"end":10784.73,"text":"來去去解他說"},{"start":10784.73,"end":10786.73,"text":"沒有美宣費你們一樣能做"},{"start":10786.73,"end":10788.73,"text":"當然文化部有比較大型的"},{"start":10788.73,"end":10790.73,"text":"活動媒體都會有那叫新聞"},{"start":10790.73,"end":10792.73,"text":"那不是宣傳"},{"start":10792.73,"end":10794.73,"text":"那也不是媒體政策"},{"start":10794.73,"end":10796.73,"text":"那就是我們發了一個新聞"},{"start":10796.73,"end":10798.73,"text":"但是媒體有揭露出來"},{"start":10798.73,"end":10800.73,"text":"那就是有新聞"},{"start":10800.73,"end":10802.73,"text":"但不是文化部的每一項活動"},{"start":10802.73,"end":10804.73,"text":"他都會發新聞稿"},{"start":10804.73,"end":10806.73,"text":"都會有媒體願意報導"},{"start":10806.73,"end":10808.73,"text":"包括剛才我們討論到的兒童未來館"},{"start":10808.73,"end":10810.73,"text":"還是我們再來的我們的"},{"start":10810.73,"end":10812.73,"text":"不管是我們的漫畫館的部分"},{"start":10812.73,"end":10814.73,"text":"這個在這個事前的"},{"start":10814.73,"end":10816.73,"text":"這些相關的活動"},{"start":10816.73,"end":10818.73,"text":"就不一定上媒體"},{"start":10818.73,"end":10820.73,"text":"也不一定能夠做到說"},{"start":10820.73,"end":10822.73,"text":"有媒體願意去幫我們做這一切"},{"start":10822.73,"end":10824.73,"text":"這個都需要美宣費來做"},{"start":10824.73,"end":10826.73,"text":"所以翁委員您的誤解"},{"start":10826.73,"end":10828.73,"text":"為什麼您會一直咬定了"},{"start":10828.73,"end":10830.73,"text":"就是部長說沒有錢也能做事"},{"start":10830.73,"end":10832.73,"text":"這是不可能的"},{"start":10832.73,"end":10834.73,"text":"不管在公單位不管在私人"},{"start":10834.73,"end":10836.73,"text":"在任何的情況下都是不可能的"},{"start":10838.63,"end":10840.63,"text":"在翁委員您回來委員會討論之前"},{"start":10840.63,"end":10842.63,"text":"其實我們跟書兵委員"},{"start":10842.63,"end":10844.63,"text":"跟村頭委員都有討論到說"},{"start":10844.63,"end":10846.63,"text":"凍結的這個額度"},{"start":10846.63,"end":10848.63,"text":"那個時候已經有共識"},{"start":10848.63,"end":10850.63,"text":"就是凍結三百萬"},{"start":10850.63,"end":10852.63,"text":"那我們執政黨的委員們"},{"start":10852.63,"end":10854.63,"text":"也同意就是說因為"},{"start":10854.63,"end":10856.63,"text":"民眾黨委員他們要進這個監督之者"},{"start":10856.63,"end":10858.63,"text":"所以他們提出"},{"start":10858.63,"end":10860.63,"text":"這個凍結的金額是三百萬"},{"start":10860.63,"end":10862.63,"text":"那個時候是大家有這個共識了"},{"start":10862.63,"end":10864.63,"text":"我也希望說我們是不是就朝這個共識走"},{"start":10864.63,"end":10866.63,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":10867.76,"end":10869.76,"text":"好來翁曉琳委員之後蔡村頭委員"},{"start":10869.76,"end":10871.76,"text":"再來那個吳佩奕委員"},{"start":10871.76,"end":10873.76,"text":"好我要談的就是說"},{"start":10873.76,"end":10875.76,"text":"首先我為什麼剛剛"},{"start":10875.76,"end":10877.76,"text":"這兩個小時不在"},{"start":10877.76,"end":10879.76,"text":"這一個半小時不在"},{"start":10879.76,"end":10881.76,"text":"因為我在司法法制委員會"},{"start":10881.76,"end":10883.76,"text":"在審查這個稅務的這個審理法"},{"start":10883.76,"end":10885.76,"text":"那裡是逐條審查"},{"start":10888.35,"end":10890.35,"text":"所以我不是說跑去外面喝咖啡"},{"start":10890.35,"end":10892.35,"text":"我同樣在司法"},{"start":10893.78,"end":10895.78,"text":"我同樣在立法院裡面"},{"start":10898.02,"end":10900.02,"text":"我去承擔我的這個責任"},{"start":10900.02,"end":10902.02,"text":"我在司法法制委員會"},{"start":10902.02,"end":10904.02,"text":"在審法案"},{"start":10904.33,"end":10906.33,"text":"回到剛剛講的這個案子"},{"start":10906.33,"end":10908.33,"text":"我還是要講那個重要的"},{"start":10908.33,"end":10910.33,"text":"一個原則"},{"start":10910.33,"end":10912.33,"text":"就是沒宣費"},{"start":10912.33,"end":10914.33,"text":"它不是一個必要的支出"},{"start":10914.33,"end":10916.33,"text":"更何況"},{"start":10916.33,"end":10918.33,"text":"在去年"},{"start":10919.63,"end":10921.63,"text":"文化部"},{"start":10921.47,"end":10923.47,"text":"它的沒宣費是零元"},{"start":10923.47,"end":10925.47,"text":"仍然可以做業務宣導"},{"start":10925.47,"end":10927.47,"text":"不需要浪費"},{"start":10927.47,"end":10929.47,"text":"任何一毛錢"},{"start":10929.47,"end":10931.47,"text":"去做"},{"start":10931.47,"end":10933.47,"text":"沒宣"},{"start":10933.05,"end":10935.05,"text":"我要再強調就是"},{"start":10935.05,"end":10937.05,"text":"剛剛陳培優委員有講"},{"start":10937.05,"end":10939.05,"text":"什麼兒童未來館"},{"start":10939.05,"end":10941.05,"text":"文化"},{"start":10941.05,"end":10943.05,"text":"國家兒童未來館"},{"start":10943.05,"end":10945.05,"text":"還有漫畫館"},{"start":10945.05,"end":10947.05,"text":"國家漫畫博物館"},{"start":10947.05,"end":10949.05,"text":"當然都應該要開辦"},{"start":10949.05,"end":10951.05,"text":"而這些"},{"start":10951.92,"end":10953.92,"text":"不好意思"},{"start":10954.45,"end":10956.45,"text":"又插話了"},{"start":10956.45,"end":10958.45,"text":"陳培優又插話"},{"start":10958.45,"end":10960.45,"text":"他們下來都是這樣啊"},{"start":10960.45,"end":10962.45,"text":"人家一直講話說一點都不尊重"},{"start":10961.8,"end":10963.8,"text":"請不要這樣好嗎"},{"start":10964.74,"end":10968.74,"text":"剛剛講的這兩個館的活動該辦"},{"start":10968.74,"end":10970.74,"text":"那整個的活動的經費"},{"start":10970.74,"end":10972.74,"text":"應該是編在業務費底下"},{"start":10972.74,"end":10974.74,"text":"怎麼可以說是"},{"start":10974.74,"end":10976.74,"text":"把這個活動的費用"},{"start":10976.74,"end":10978.74,"text":"又把它匡列在沒宣費"},{"start":10978.74,"end":10980.74,"text":"這是完全不合理的"},{"start":10980.74,"end":10982.74,"text":"也違反預算的編列原則"},{"start":10982.85,"end":10984.85,"text":"所以陳培優剛剛還點到"},{"start":10984.85,"end":10986.85,"text":"文化部似乎有這種"},{"start":10986.85,"end":10988.85,"text":"亂編預算的情況"},{"start":10988.85,"end":10990.85,"text":"那這更說明了"},{"start":10990.85,"end":10992.85,"text":"這沒宣費編下去"},{"start":10992.85,"end":10994.85,"text":"不知道是用在什麼地方"},{"start":10996.26,"end":10998.26,"text":"當然啦今天看起來很多的委員"},{"start":10998.26,"end":11000.26,"text":"是認為說不該刪"},{"start":11001.49,"end":11003.49,"text":"只要凍結"},{"start":11004.18,"end":11006.18,"text":"民主就是這樣少數服從多數"},{"start":11006.18,"end":11008.18,"text":"但是我必須說"},{"start":11008.18,"end":11010.18,"text":"我堅持我的原則"},{"start":11010.18,"end":11012.18,"text":"我堅持我的提案"},{"start":11012.18,"end":11014.18,"text":"而且我的提案單"},{"start":11014.18,"end":11016.18,"text":"可受公平"},{"start":11017.31,"end":11019.31,"text":"不像民進黨的委員"},{"start":11019.31,"end":11021.31,"text":"你們提了什麼到目前為止"},{"start":11021.31,"end":11023.31,"text":"你們有刪減什麼預算嗎"},{"start":11024.11,"end":11026.11,"text":"沒有啊"},{"start":11026.11,"end":11028.11,"text":"從頭到尾護航到尾"},{"start":11029.94,"end":11033.94,"text":"文化部的4738萬的沒宣費"},{"start":11033.94,"end":11035.94,"text":"在我看來"},{"start":11035.94,"end":11037.94,"text":"就是一個不必要的支出"},{"start":11037.94,"end":11039.94,"text":"直接由文化部"},{"start":11039.94,"end":11041.94,"text":"自己去做"},{"start":11041.94,"end":11043.94,"text":"業務宣導即可"},{"start":11049.68,"end":11051.68,"text":"我們剛剛說的啊"},{"start":11051.68,"end":11053.68,"text":"村長委員在吳培怡"},{"start":11052.85,"end":11054.85,"text":"好 我再表達我個人的立場"},{"start":11054.85,"end":11056.85,"text":"那個"},{"start":11056.85,"end":11058.85,"text":"我是凍結案"},{"start":11058.85,"end":11060.85,"text":"但是如果說"},{"start":11060.85,"end":11062.85,"text":"要照類的話我一定"},{"start":11062.85,"end":11064.85,"text":"堅持是反對的"},{"start":11064.85,"end":11066.85,"text":"而且在這裡也要跟大家講"},{"start":11066.85,"end":11068.85,"text":"要尊重提案人"},{"start":11068.85,"end":11070.85,"text":"所以我在這裡表達"},{"start":11070.85,"end":11072.85,"text":"以上"},{"start":11073.64,"end":11075.64,"text":"吳培怡委員"},{"start":11075.55,"end":11077.55,"text":"這個因為我們"},{"start":11077.55,"end":11079.55,"text":"審查預算有直播"},{"start":11079.55,"end":11081.55,"text":"現在線上有很多關心"},{"start":11081.55,"end":11083.55,"text":"我們審查狀況"},{"start":11083.55,"end":11085.55,"text":"關心我們台灣文化發展的朋友"},{"start":11085.55,"end":11087.55,"text":"所以我認為還是有必要來說明清楚"},{"start":11087.55,"end":11089.55,"text":"我們立法院"},{"start":11089.55,"end":11091.55,"text":"當然有監督預算的職權"},{"start":11091.55,"end":11093.55,"text":"我們也都就"},{"start":11093.55,"end":11095.55,"text":"文化部具體的業務"},{"start":11095.55,"end":11097.55,"text":"來提出我們的要求"},{"start":11097.55,"end":11099.55,"text":"我們的討論"},{"start":11100.22,"end":11102.22,"text":"但是"},{"start":11101.69,"end":11103.69,"text":"我們剛剛關心的這麼多"},{"start":11103.69,"end":11105.69,"text":"文化部有關於台北書展"},{"start":11105.69,"end":11107.69,"text":"要不要宣傳我認為要啊"},{"start":11107.69,"end":11109.69,"text":"台北時裝中要不要宣傳我認為"},{"start":11109.69,"end":11111.69,"text":"要啊我們受到這麼多年"},{"start":11111.69,"end":11113.69,"text":"經朋友反應陳情台灣"},{"start":11113.69,"end":11115.69,"text":"的黃牛票演唱會的票"},{"start":11115.69,"end":11117.69,"text":"這些都被加價轉售"},{"start":11117.69,"end":11119.69,"text":"要怎麼樣來管理怎麼樣來監督"},{"start":11119.69,"end":11121.69,"text":"文化部要加強宣傳"},{"start":11121.69,"end":11123.69,"text":"以免民眾被詐騙"},{"start":11123.69,"end":11125.69,"text":"這些我都認為要做啊"},{"start":11126.43,"end":11128.43,"text":"那麼翁曉玲委員"},{"start":11128.43,"end":11130.43,"text":"我真的必須要再次表達很遺憾"},{"start":11130.43,"end":11132.43,"text":"很抱歉我努力保持比較"},{"start":11132.43,"end":11134.43,"text":"比較平緩的語氣"},{"start":11134.43,"end":11136.43,"text":"但是因為她的說明"},{"start":11136.43,"end":11138.43,"text":"我都完全聽不出來"},{"start":11138.43,"end":11140.43,"text":"你到底對哪一個業務有意見"},{"start":11140.43,"end":11142.43,"text":"那麼原來我們赫然發現"},{"start":11142.43,"end":11144.43,"text":"翁曉玲不是只有刪文化部的"},{"start":11144.43,"end":11146.43,"text":"沒宣要刪到零嘛"},{"start":11146.43,"end":11148.43,"text":"他外交部的沒宣費"},{"start":11148.43,"end":11150.43,"text":"一億元也給人家刪到零嘛"},{"start":11150.43,"end":11152.43,"text":"行政院的沒宣費他也刪到零嘛"},{"start":11152.43,"end":11154.43,"text":"通通都用通刪的方式"},{"start":11154.43,"end":11156.43,"text":"通刪的方式"},{"start":11156.43,"end":11158.43,"text":"就是讓委員會中心主義"},{"start":11158.43,"end":11160.43,"text":"專業的討論完全"},{"start":11160.43,"end":11162.43,"text":"淪喪了嘛"},{"start":11162.43,"end":11164.43,"text":"我們平常在這邊關心這麼多文化部的業務"},{"start":11164.43,"end":11166.43,"text":"每次要求口頭報告"},{"start":11166.43,"end":11168.43,"text":"書面報告"},{"start":11168.43,"end":11170.43,"text":"然後呢就在審查預算的時候"},{"start":11170.43,"end":11172.43,"text":"一個外委的委員來用一個通刪的方式"},{"start":11172.43,"end":11174.43,"text":"外委的委員也可以提案"},{"start":11174.43,"end":11176.43,"text":"可是你要通刪的方式"},{"start":11176.43,"end":11178.43,"text":"我真的完全不能接受"},{"start":11178.43,"end":11180.43,"text":"因為你就通通我們中華民國這麼多公務員"},{"start":11180.43,"end":11182.43,"text":"外交部的公務員文化部的公務員"},{"start":11182.43,"end":11184.43,"text":"大家都錯只有歐小林對"},{"start":11184.43,"end":11186.43,"text":"這有可能嗎不符合大家的常識嗎"},{"start":11186.43,"end":11188.43,"text":"再來委員你對於"},{"start":11188.43,"end":11190.43,"text":"預算法定預算的編列完全"},{"start":11190.43,"end":11192.43,"text":"沒有概念我們為什麼要求"},{"start":11192.43,"end":11194.43,"text":"要編預算因為法定預算"},{"start":11194.43,"end":11196.43,"text":"同時包含了政府"},{"start":11196.43,"end":11198.43,"text":"單位法定業務"},{"start":11198.43,"end":11200.43,"text":"的責任嘛"},{"start":11200.43,"end":11202.43,"text":"我要你編預算我明年可以來監督你的"},{"start":11202.43,"end":11204.43,"text":"執行率嘛你要不要去做"},{"start":11204.43,"end":11206.43,"text":"這些必要的宣傳"},{"start":11206.43,"end":11208.43,"text":"我明天才可以監督你你不編"},{"start":11208.43,"end":11210.43,"text":"預算你說一張部長自己發臉書"},{"start":11210.43,"end":11212.43,"text":"誰自己發臉書我們立法院"},{"start":11212.43,"end":11214.43,"text":"怎麼去監督行政部門"},{"start":11214.43,"end":11216.43,"text":"這是法定預算包含了"},{"start":11216.43,"end":11218.43,"text":"法定業務這是"},{"start":11218.43,"end":11220.43,"text":"基本觀念怎麼會立法委員"},{"start":11220.43,"end":11222.43,"text":"自己來嚴格自己監督行政部門"},{"start":11222.43,"end":11224.43,"text":"的權利呢都不編"},{"start":11224.43,"end":11226.43,"text":"預算我們怎麼監督"},{"start":11226.72,"end":11228.72,"text":"我們委員會在這裡花這麼多時間"},{"start":11228.72,"end":11230.72,"text":"討論結果後來發現"},{"start":11230.72,"end":11232.72,"text":"歐小林委員就到處去每個委員會"},{"start":11232.72,"end":11234.72,"text":"通三嘛通三通三"},{"start":11234.72,"end":11236.72,"text":"通三都沒有具體計畫"},{"start":11236.72,"end":11238.72,"text":"都不了解你告訴我"},{"start":11238.72,"end":11240.72,"text":"打擊黃寮票不用"},{"start":11240.72,"end":11242.72,"text":"宣傳嗎"},{"start":11242.19,"end":11244.19,"text":"部長發一個臉書"},{"start":11244.19,"end":11246.19,"text":"他剛剛問我的說我要回答"},{"start":11246.19,"end":11248.19,"text":"我自己也會的就好了"},{"start":11248.19,"end":11250.19,"text":"所以抱歉抱歉抱歉"},{"start":11250.19,"end":11252.19,"text":"因為我們教文會剛剛不同黨派"},{"start":11252.19,"end":11254.19,"text":"的我們都個別個別的案件"},{"start":11254.19,"end":11256.19,"text":"有所關心可是"},{"start":11256.19,"end":11258.19,"text":"通三通三這非常"},{"start":11258.19,"end":11260.19,"text":"不責任我沒有辦法"},{"start":11260.19,"end":11262.19,"text":"去接受非常不尊重"},{"start":11262.19,"end":11264.19,"text":"我們委員會專業的討論"},{"start":11264.19,"end":11266.19,"text":"歐小林委員不能夠打斷"},{"start":11266.19,"end":11268.19,"text":"所以就現在我們做出了"},{"start":11268.19,"end":11270.19,"text":"犯令大家都"},{"start":11270.19,"end":11272.19,"text":"社會眼睛都在看我們"},{"start":11272.19,"end":11274.19,"text":"我們都希望可以好好地監督"},{"start":11274.19,"end":11276.19,"text":"好好地審查你要三減"},{"start":11276.19,"end":11278.19,"text":"卓三你要凍結都可以"},{"start":11278.19,"end":11280.19,"text":"不是通三通三通三"},{"start":11280.19,"end":11282.19,"text":"那這個吳佩儀委員"},{"start":11282.19,"end":11284.19,"text":"還是可以繼續發言請"},{"start":11284.19,"end":11286.19,"text":"發言"},{"start":11287.96,"end":11289.96,"text":"發言了喔"},{"start":11290.27,"end":11292.27,"text":"那個"},{"start":11293.98,"end":11295.98,"text":"好看到你們舉手了"},{"start":11295.98,"end":11297.98,"text":"我先處理會議時間好不好"},{"start":11297.98,"end":11299.98,"text":"好因為"},{"start":11299.68,"end":11301.68,"text":"今天我們才到第六案"},{"start":11301.68,"end":11303.68,"text":"總共有280幾案"},{"start":11303.68,"end":11305.68,"text":"好"},{"start":11305.73,"end":11307.73,"text":"今天會議時間繼續進行"},{"start":11307.73,"end":11309.73,"text":"議程所列事項"},{"start":11310.64,"end":11312.64,"text":"我們"},{"start":11312.04,"end":11314.04,"text":"要均處理完畢為止"},{"start":11314.6,"end":11316.6,"text":"有意義"},{"start":11316.73,"end":11318.73,"text":"好不好今天把它給處理完"},{"start":11319.01,"end":11321.01,"text":"好"},{"start":11321.49,"end":11323.49,"text":"那另外"},{"start":11323.58,"end":11325.58,"text":"還沒吃飯時間沒關係"},{"start":11325.58,"end":11327.58,"text":"我想說怕你們如果有便當的話"},{"start":11327.58,"end":11329.58,"text":"可以先發給官員"},{"start":11329.58,"end":11331.58,"text":"那官員在旁邊的人都還可以先用便當沒關係"},{"start":11331.58,"end":11333.58,"text":"好我們繼續發言"},{"start":11333.58,"end":11335.58,"text":"那個陳佩儀委員"},{"start":11337.92,"end":11339.92,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":11339.92,"end":11341.92,"text":"我覺得就法定預算的部分真的"},{"start":11341.92,"end":11343.92,"text":"我不想再對翁曉瑩委員說話了"},{"start":11343.92,"end":11345.92,"text":"但是我想要提醒其他所有的"},{"start":11345.92,"end":11347.92,"text":"立法委員所有認真審查"},{"start":11347.92,"end":11349.92,"text":"預算不是只會刪除"},{"start":11349.92,"end":11351.92,"text":"預算的立法委員"},{"start":11351.92,"end":11353.92,"text":"過去我們在看一個行政"},{"start":11353.92,"end":11355.92,"text":"措施做得好不好"},{"start":11355.92,"end":11357.92,"text":"大家可能很習慣去看YouTube的"},{"start":11357.92,"end":11359.92,"text":"點播數或者是FB的按讚數"},{"start":11359.92,"end":11361.92,"text":"現在有Trade有IG"},{"start":11361.92,"end":11363.92,"text":"各式各樣社群媒體在過去"},{"start":11363.92,"end":11365.92,"text":"非常多委員都會在質詢"},{"start":11365.92,"end":11367.92,"text":"台上拿來作為素材"},{"start":11367.92,"end":11369.92,"text":"如果按照翁曉瑩委員的說法"},{"start":11369.92,"end":11371.92,"text":"現在把所有的"},{"start":11371.92,"end":11373.92,"text":"媒宣費都刪除讓按照部長剛"},{"start":11373.92,"end":11375.92,"text":"的說法他就開始熬夜寫臉書"},{"start":11375.92,"end":11377.92,"text":"未來難道"},{"start":11377.92,"end":11379.92,"text":"我們所有的委員要去看"},{"start":11379.92,"end":11381.92,"text":"部長您個人的臉書"},{"start":11381.92,"end":11383.92,"text":"在沒有媒宣費的支持下"},{"start":11383.92,"end":11385.92,"text":"獲得個多少個讚"},{"start":11385.92,"end":11387.92,"text":"來確保你做得好不好嗎"},{"start":11387.92,"end":11389.92,"text":"請問這聽起來有沒有非常非常的荒謬"},{"start":11389.92,"end":11391.92,"text":"所以部長這個時候於是就要"},{"start":11391.92,"end":11393.92,"text":"開始拜託次長拜託"},{"start":11393.92,"end":11395.92,"text":"署長拜託底下的行政官員"},{"start":11395.92,"end":11397.92,"text":"甚至要拜託他的民間好友"},{"start":11397.92,"end":11399.92,"text":"拜託來幫我按讚"},{"start":11399.92,"end":11401.92,"text":"我在沒有預算的情況下"},{"start":11404.46,"end":11406.46,"text":"請問大家"},{"start":11406.46,"end":11408.46,"text":"讓部長自己熬夜寫自己個人的臉書"},{"start":11408.46,"end":11410.46,"text":"作為媒宣"},{"start":11410.46,"end":11412.46,"text":"這是一個中華民國的行政"},{"start":11412.46,"end":11414.46,"text":"委員的說法"},{"start":11414.46,"end":11416.46,"text":"所以部長請問"},{"start":11416.46,"end":11418.46,"text":"請問您的說法"},{"start":11418.46,"end":11420.46,"text":"在你自己的臉書上"},{"start":11420.46,"end":11422.46,"text":"你自己的臉書上"},{"start":11422.46,"end":11424.46,"text":"你自己的臉書上"},{"start":11424.46,"end":11426.46,"text":"你自己的臉書上"},{"start":11426.46,"end":11428.46,"text":"你自己的臉書上"},{"start":11428.46,"end":11430.46,"text":"你自己的臉書上"},{"start":11430.46,"end":11432.46,"text":"你自己的臉書上"},{"start":11432.46,"end":11434.46,"text":"這是一個中華民國的行政機關的首長"},{"start":11434.46,"end":11436.46,"text":"應該要做的事情嗎"},{"start":11436.46,"end":11438.46,"text":"而翁小林竟然還"},{"start":11438.46,"end":11440.46,"text":"口口聲聲說聽起來非常"},{"start":11440.46,"end":11442.46,"text":"合理所以剛剛"},{"start":11442.46,"end":11444.46,"text":"吳佩儀委員非常好心的教"},{"start":11444.46,"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呃有啦剛剛都有宣告"},{"start":11885.57,"end":11887.57,"text":"一定會讓你們發言請放下"},{"start":11887.57,"end":11889.57,"text":"就是先宣告那個吳思堯"},{"start":11889.57,"end":11891.57,"text":"再來這個劉舒斌"},{"start":11891.57,"end":11893.57,"text":"再來 是你嗎"},{"start":11894.59,"end":11896.59,"text":"喔對不起是你先喔"},{"start":11896.59,"end":11898.59,"text":"那先郭育晴再來"},{"start":11898.59,"end":11900.59,"text":"那個吳思堯啊再來劉舒斌"},{"start":11903.21,"end":11905.21,"text":"好你們兩個喬好就好"},{"start":11905.21,"end":11907.21,"text":"你們兩個看誰先"},{"start":11907.21,"end":11909.21,"text":"再來劉舒斌然後再來吳立華"},{"start":11909.21,"end":11911.21,"text":"在你們講話之前"},{"start":11911.21,"end":11913.21,"text":"我一個小小的提案你們參考看看"},{"start":11913.21,"end":11915.21,"text":"我們要不要先在"},{"start":11916.81,"end":11918.81,"text":"先保留"},{"start":11918.81,"end":11920.81,"text":"然後我們先討論下面"},{"start":11920.81,"end":11922.81,"text":"這個回過頭來再來討論"},{"start":11925.11,"end":11927.11,"text":"主席我剛剛提案表決"},{"start":11927.11,"end":11929.11,"text":"對啊"},{"start":11929.11,"end":11931.11,"text":"好啦"},{"start":11931.11,"end":11933.11,"text":"我還是這句話啦因為"},{"start":11933.11,"end":11935.11,"text":"過往的網利都沒有"},{"start":11935.11,"end":11937.11,"text":"表決啦所以"},{"start":11937.11,"end":11939.11,"text":"你們要提案我尊重"},{"start":11939.11,"end":11941.11,"text":"但是我沒有辦法"},{"start":11941.11,"end":11943.11,"text":"處理啦因為照網利是"},{"start":11943.11,"end":11945.11,"text":"沒有在表決的"},{"start":11945.87,"end":11947.87,"text":"好所以你們要繼續發言嗎"},{"start":11947.87,"end":11949.87,"text":"還是我要給你們建議說"},{"start":11949.87,"end":11951.87,"text":"你們要不要先保留在委員會裡面"},{"start":11951.87,"end":11953.87,"text":"好啦我先講完這輪啦既然大家都要講"},{"start":11953.87,"end":11955.87,"text":"那麼講完啦"},{"start":11956.05,"end":11958.05,"text":"講完這一輪啦"},{"start":11958.05,"end":11960.05,"text":"講完這一輪再決定喔"},{"start":11960.05,"end":11962.05,"text":"那個就吳治耀委員"},{"start":11962.58,"end":11964.58,"text":"什麼樣子叫做認真審查"},{"start":11964.58,"end":11966.58,"text":"預算的立委"},{"start":11966.58,"end":11968.58,"text":"什麼樣子叫做丟臉的立委"},{"start":11968.58,"end":11970.58,"text":"就是翁曉琳給了我們"},{"start":11970.58,"end":11972.58,"text":"最好的負面示範"},{"start":11972.58,"end":11974.58,"text":"丟臉的立委"},{"start":11974.58,"end":11976.58,"text":"不認真審查預算只會"},{"start":11976.58,"end":11978.58,"text":"亂砍預算的立委叫翁曉琳"},{"start":11978.58,"end":11980.58,"text":"我剛剛已經說了喔"},{"start":11980.58,"end":11982.58,"text":"我點到說"},{"start":11982.58,"end":11984.58,"text":"其他委員有沒有認真提案"},{"start":11984.58,"end":11986.58,"text":"在審預算"},{"start":11986.47,"end":11988.47,"text":"委員在文化部的預算提了四個案"},{"start":11988.47,"end":11990.47,"text":"第六"},{"start":11990.47,"end":11992.47,"text":"第180"},{"start":11992.47,"end":11994.47,"text":"第250 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宣導"},{"start":12619.81,"end":12621.81,"text":"自己做就可以了"},{"start":12621.81,"end":12623.81,"text":"就這麼簡單的邏輯"},{"start":12625.62,"end":12627.62,"text":"所有的民進黨委員"},{"start":12628.27,"end":12630.27,"text":"都在"},{"start":12629.38,"end":12631.38,"text":"或者"},{"start":12630.61,"end":12632.61,"text":"文化部"},{"start":12632.43,"end":12634.43,"text":"山那一點點的"},{"start":12634.9,"end":12636.9,"text":"梅宣費"},{"start":12636.43,"end":12638.43,"text":"好像是把文化部"},{"start":12638.8,"end":12640.8,"text":"整個都廢了嗎"},{"start":12640.8,"end":12642.8,"text":"有這麼誇張嗎"},{"start":12642.95,"end":12644.95,"text":"由此可見"},{"start":12644.95,"end":12646.95,"text":"這筆梅宣費"},{"start":12646.95,"end":12648.95,"text":"對於民進黨而言有多麼的重要"},{"start":12649.63,"end":12651.63,"text":"對綠梅來講有多麼的重要"},{"start":12654.47,"end":12656.47,"text":"我現在要講的就是"},{"start":12657.71,"end":12659.71,"text":"今天的這個提案"},{"start":12659.71,"end":12661.71,"text":"如果說是"},{"start":12661.71,"end":12663.71,"text":"要繼續這樣講下去"},{"start":12663.71,"end":12665.71,"text":"我們也可以繼續講"},{"start":12665.71,"end":12667.71,"text":"我還是非常堅持我的原則"},{"start":12667.71,"end":12669.71,"text":"我要說的就是文化部"},{"start":12669.71,"end":12671.71,"text":"不合理的預算"},{"start":12671.71,"end":12673.71,"text":"我會一筆一筆挑出來包含"},{"start":12673.71,"end":12675.71,"text":"180案的為什麼"},{"start":12676.55,"end":12678.55,"text":"這個機關手掌用車"},{"start":12679.63,"end":12681.63,"text":"你開了九年就要換一部"},{"start":12681.63,"end":12683.63,"text":"210萬的車"},{"start":12683.63,"end":12685.63,"text":"這有什麼道理"},{"start":12685.88,"end":12687.88,"text":"我們之後我們會一個案子再來看"},{"start":12691.51,"end":12693.51,"text":"我最後要講就是"},{"start":12693.51,"end":12695.51,"text":"民進黨委員"},{"start":12696.12,"end":12698.12,"text":"這個討論預算就罷了"},{"start":12698.12,"end":12700.12,"text":"你們一再一再的人身攻擊"},{"start":12700.12,"end":12702.12,"text":"一再一再的去給別人扣帽子"},{"start":12702.12,"end":12704.12,"text":"沒有什麼意思"},{"start":12704.12,"end":12706.12,"text":"我們今天的"},{"start":12706.12,"end":12708.12,"text":"談話全國的民眾都在看"},{"start":12709.69,"end":12711.69,"text":"大家心裡面都很清楚"},{"start":12711.69,"end":12713.69,"text":"公理自在人心"},{"start":12713.69,"end":12715.69,"text":"我希望待會"},{"start":12715.69,"end":12717.69,"text":"可能就可以繼續來討論這個案子了"},{"start":12717.69,"end":12719.69,"text":"該表決就表決吧"},{"start":12719.69,"end":12721.69,"text":"主席我剛剛有說要表決喔"},{"start":12721.69,"end":12723.69,"text":"我剛剛有說要表決"},{"start":12723.69,"end":12725.69,"text":"不好意思我還是要讓他發言嘛"},{"start":12725.69,"end":12727.69,"text":"那個蘇彬委員發言"},{"start":12727.69,"end":12729.69,"text":"剛剛那個吳思瑤委員你有被點名"},{"start":12729.69,"end":12731.69,"text":"你想要發言也可以啦"},{"start":12731.69,"end":12733.69,"text":"那先蘇彬委員"},{"start":12733.69,"end":12735.69,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":12734.92,"end":12736.92,"text":"我們今天在處理"},{"start":12736.92,"end":12738.92,"text":"媒體政策跟業務宣導費當中"},{"start":12738.92,"end":12740.92,"text":"在休息之前"},{"start":12740.92,"end":12742.92,"text":"是有一些共識的"},{"start":12742.92,"end":12744.92,"text":"那"},{"start":12745.34,"end":12747.34,"text":"當初是有說"},{"start":12747.34,"end":12749.34,"text":"凍結的300萬元"},{"start":12749.34,"end":12751.34,"text":"不過那個過程當中"},{"start":12751.34,"end":12753.34,"text":"並沒有把"},{"start":12753.34,"end":12755.34,"text":"羅志強委員的"},{"start":12755.34,"end":12757.34,"text":"他還是要簡列2500萬元"},{"start":12757.34,"end":12759.34,"text":"這樣子的意見"},{"start":12759.34,"end":12761.34,"text":"放進來那我們後來看到"},{"start":12761.34,"end":12763.34,"text":"的是在休息之後"},{"start":12763.34,"end":12765.34,"text":"由志強委員他也"},{"start":12765.34,"end":12767.34,"text":"直接的說了"},{"start":12767.34,"end":12769.34,"text":"他不是要用凍結"},{"start":12769.34,"end":12771.34,"text":"他不是用簡列他要用凍結"},{"start":12771.34,"end":12773.34,"text":"那凍結呢"},{"start":12773.34,"end":12775.34,"text":"就是要凍結2500萬元"},{"start":12775.34,"end":12777.34,"text":"那我在想說"},{"start":12777.34,"end":12779.34,"text":"既然剛才有委員"},{"start":12779.34,"end":12781.34,"text":"最重要是針對說完全要"},{"start":12781.34,"end":12783.34,"text":"要照列或是完全要刪減"},{"start":12783.34,"end":12785.34,"text":"我們是不是可以做有效的部分"},{"start":12785.34,"end":12787.34,"text":"來做能在形成共識"},{"start":12787.34,"end":12789.34,"text":"像目前的共識是"},{"start":12789.34,"end":12791.34,"text":"張書是300萬但是因為"},{"start":12791.34,"end":12793.34,"text":"羅志強委員一直沒有就是他現在有新的"},{"start":12793.34,"end":12795.34,"text":"提案出現了我們是不是可以"},{"start":12795.34,"end":12797.34,"text":"就他2500萬的"},{"start":12798.7,"end":12800.7,"text":"凍結的部分"},{"start":12800.7,"end":12802.7,"text":"再跟300萬的這些部分"},{"start":12802.7,"end":12804.7,"text":"來做一個妥協就可以達成了"},{"start":12804.7,"end":12806.7,"text":"維持到校文委員會裡面非常重要的"},{"start":12806.7,"end":12808.7,"text":"一種共識決"},{"start":12808.7,"end":12810.7,"text":"而標準就是說"},{"start":12810.7,"end":12812.7,"text":"到底凍結的要解凍結的一個標準"},{"start":12812.7,"end":12814.7,"text":"是什麼呢就是剛才已經也有共識"},{"start":12814.7,"end":12816.7,"text":"就是村丑委員他所說的"},{"start":12816.7,"end":12818.7,"text":"基於在野黨本身是一種"},{"start":12818.7,"end":12820.7,"text":"監督的立場就是在把"},{"start":12820.7,"end":12822.7,"text":"原來的提案當中的第十案裡面"},{"start":12822.7,"end":12824.7,"text":"的包括是"},{"start":12825.72,"end":12827.72,"text":"文宣"},{"start":12827.34,"end":12829.34,"text":"業務費等的宣導費等的這個"},{"start":12829.34,"end":12831.34,"text":"契約啊尾班採收對象"},{"start":12831.34,"end":12833.34,"text":"啊播放平台執行進度"},{"start":12833.34,"end":12835.34,"text":"績效指標等等這些把列出來"},{"start":12835.34,"end":12837.34,"text":"那就可以解決了"},{"start":12837.34,"end":12839.34,"text":"本身最重要的是要達到"},{"start":12839.34,"end":12841.34,"text":"是他希望能夠解凍把這些"},{"start":12841.34,"end":12843.34,"text":"在野黨委員所希望"},{"start":12843.34,"end":12845.34,"text":"有所質疑的不了解的部分"},{"start":12845.34,"end":12847.34,"text":"能夠透過一個"},{"start":12847.34,"end":12849.34,"text":"一個解凍的這個"},{"start":12849.34,"end":12851.34,"text":"條件就是凍結的條件把"},{"start":12851.34,"end":12853.34,"text":"這樣子的一個意見然後"},{"start":12853.34,"end":12855.34,"text":"更重要的是把它完成"},{"start":12855.34,"end":12857.34,"text":"我提出來說我們應該可以就這部分來維持到"},{"start":12857.34,"end":12859.34,"text":"我們很難得的"},{"start":12859.34,"end":12861.34,"text":"教委委員一直都有一個共識"},{"start":12861.34,"end":12863.34,"text":"是說一直有的"},{"start":12863.34,"end":12865.34,"text":"在決策上面或是在"},{"start":12865.34,"end":12867.34,"text":"法案或是預算面都是用的"},{"start":12867.34,"end":12869.34,"text":"是盡可能是用共識決"},{"start":12869.34,"end":12871.34,"text":"那這部分因為羅士祥"},{"start":12871.34,"end":12873.34,"text":"委員沒有處理我們就用"},{"start":12873.34,"end":12875.34,"text":"凍結的方式就凍結"},{"start":12875.34,"end":12877.34,"text":"兩千五百萬跟凍結三百萬當中"},{"start":12877.34,"end":12879.34,"text":"去做一個處理這樣子"},{"start":12879.34,"end":12881.34,"text":"我覺得這是可能比較合理的不然兩邊"},{"start":12881.34,"end":12883.34,"text":"實在差異太大了好謝謝"},{"start":12885.34,"end":12887.34,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12888.43,"end":12890.43,"text":"那個蘇斌委員"},{"start":12890.43,"end":12892.43,"text":"我還是吳立華委員"},{"start":12892.97,"end":12894.97,"text":"隨我"},{"start":12894.6,"end":12896.6,"text":"吳立華委員歡迎"},{"start":12896.66,"end":12898.66,"text":"還是你們要我先來處理這一案了"},{"start":12900.36,"end":12902.36,"text":"對我就是想要提醒"},{"start":12902.36,"end":12904.36,"text":"因為剛才羅照為主席"},{"start":12904.36,"end":12906.36,"text":"你有宣告嗎"},{"start":12906.36,"end":12908.36,"text":"287案今天要全部處理完畢"},{"start":12908.36,"end":12912.36,"text":"可是我們6案就已經花了三個小時"},{"start":12912.36,"end":12914.36,"text":"所以這樣換算的話"},{"start":12914.36,"end":12918.36,"text":"287案我剛剛換算了一下要六天"},{"start":12920.12,"end":12922.12,"text":"不眠不休"},{"start":12922.41,"end":12924.41,"text":"不眠不休六天"},{"start":12924.41,"end":12926.41,"text":"我願意為了這個六天"},{"start":12926.41,"end":12928.41,"text":"對啊既然剛才有幾位委員"},{"start":12928.41,"end":12930.41,"text":"也提議說要不要表決"},{"start":12930.41,"end":12932.41,"text":"是不是"},{"start":12933.11,"end":12935.11,"text":"對是不是來處理了好不好"},{"start":12935.11,"end":12937.11,"text":"所以我說處理嗎"},{"start":12938.45,"end":12940.45,"text":"吳立華委員你還要不要再發言"},{"start":12940.45,"end":12942.45,"text":"他剛有點名你"},{"start":12942.45,"end":12944.45,"text":"我是想要建議主席"},{"start":12944.45,"end":12946.45,"text":"因為過去也沒有說在審查的時候"},{"start":12946.45,"end":12948.45,"text":"點名誰誰就要接力講"},{"start":12948.45,"end":12950.45,"text":"你可以選擇不講"},{"start":12950.45,"end":12952.45,"text":"你不用評論我的宣告"},{"start":12952.45,"end":12954.45,"text":"你不用評論我的宣告"},{"start":12954.45,"end":12956.45,"text":"那如果這樣子"},{"start":12956.45,"end":12958.45,"text":"因為你有特別去給人家"},{"start":12958.45,"end":12960.45,"text":"我說的人神攻擊抹黑"},{"start":12960.45,"end":12962.45,"text":"一早之音"},{"start":12962.45,"end":12964.45,"text":"有特別抹黑攻擊"},{"start":12964.45,"end":12966.45,"text":"然後啦"},{"start":12966.45,"end":12968.45,"text":"我稍微參考啦"},{"start":12968.45,"end":12970.45,"text":"因為我覺得這樣誰被點名了"},{"start":12970.45,"end":12972.45,"text":"就要這樣無限次的接力下去"},{"start":12972.45,"end":12974.45,"text":"你可以不用回應"},{"start":12974.45,"end":12976.45,"text":"可是我覺得這樣子這種組織方法"},{"start":12976.45,"end":12978.45,"text":"就沒有辦法"},{"start":12978.45,"end":12980.45,"text":"具體討論預算"},{"start":12980.45,"end":12982.45,"text":"我們不能夠支持你的言論"},{"start":12982.45,"end":12984.45,"text":"但尊重你的發言權"},{"start":12984.45,"end":12986.45,"text":"回到這個預算的處理"},{"start":12986.45,"end":12988.45,"text":"我們的黨團的意見"},{"start":12988.45,"end":12990.45,"text":"我們討論一個項目"},{"start":12990.45,"end":12992.45,"text":"要刪減的理由"},{"start":12992.45,"end":12994.45,"text":"要嘛有些案子是在補助案"},{"start":12994.45,"end":12996.45,"text":"不關"},{"start":12996.45,"end":12998.45,"text":"或者是說什麼去買媒體"},{"start":12998.45,"end":13000.45,"text":"置入行銷也根本沒有用到"},{"start":13000.45,"end":13002.45,"text":"這筆預算也沒有進行這樣子的"},{"start":13002.45,"end":13004.45,"text":"業務所以提案的委員都"},{"start":13004.45,"end":13006.45,"text":"搞錯方向了所以我們覺得"},{"start":13006.45,"end":13008.45,"text":"說這樣子的這種"},{"start":13008.45,"end":13010.45,"text":"指鹿為馬的這種方式我們是"},{"start":13010.45,"end":13012.45,"text":"認為這筆預算要給文化部去"},{"start":13012.45,"end":13014.45,"text":"做必要的宣傳我們認為"},{"start":13014.45,"end":13016.45,"text":"是照列預算"},{"start":13016.45,"end":13018.45,"text":"那剛剛在前情提要"},{"start":13018.45,"end":13020.45,"text":"一下我們跟蔡宣仇委員"},{"start":13020.45,"end":13022.45,"text":"也做成了一個"},{"start":13022.45,"end":13024.45,"text":"協議共識"},{"start":13024.45,"end":13026.45,"text":"如果用卓語凍結"},{"start":13026.45,"end":13028.45,"text":"我們可以接受"},{"start":13028.45,"end":13030.45,"text":"所以剛剛那一輪是說"},{"start":13030.45,"end":13032.45,"text":"凍結三百萬可以接受"},{"start":13034.44,"end":13036.44,"text":"那看現在部長覺得"},{"start":13036.44,"end":13038.44,"text":"就聽部長如果大家覺得凍結"},{"start":13038.44,"end":13040.44,"text":"一部分的金額"},{"start":13040.44,"end":13042.44,"text":"讓文化部提出報告"},{"start":13042.44,"end":13044.44,"text":"使得凍之是大家都可以接受的"},{"start":13044.44,"end":13046.44,"text":"上一輪大家的共識是"},{"start":13046.44,"end":13048.44,"text":"凍三百那看"},{"start":13048.44,"end":13050.44,"text":"尊重部長覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":13050.44,"end":13052.44,"text":"的東西不會影響到你業務推動"},{"start":13052.44,"end":13054.44,"text":"又可以讓委員可以做到"},{"start":13054.44,"end":13056.44,"text":"監督"},{"start":13056.2,"end":13058.2,"text":"500"},{"start":13057.59,"end":13059.59,"text":"500可以嗎"},{"start":13060.05,"end":13062.05,"text":"教育部是怎麼樣"},{"start":13062.89,"end":13064.89,"text":"500"},{"start":13065.52,"end":13067.52,"text":"我是立案委員"},{"start":13067.52,"end":13069.52,"text":"我來講"},{"start":13069.96,"end":13071.96,"text":"因為我現在還是講"},{"start":13071.96,"end":13073.96,"text":"其實還是有第二輪"},{"start":13073.96,"end":13075.96,"text":"那剛剛我覺得我重申一個原則"},{"start":13075.96,"end":13077.96,"text":"提案委員的意見"},{"start":13077.96,"end":13079.96,"text":"我都會尊重"},{"start":13079.96,"end":13081.96,"text":"所以翁曉營委員的話其實還有第二輪的機會"},{"start":13081.96,"end":13083.96,"text":"那要怎麼去做"},{"start":13083.96,"end":13085.96,"text":"那跟黨團怎麼協調"},{"start":13085.96,"end":13087.96,"text":"那是第二輪的事情"},{"start":13087.96,"end":13089.96,"text":"但在這邊大家既然已經一整個上午討論"},{"start":13089.96,"end":13091.96,"text":"那我說過即便翁曉營委員的案子"},{"start":13091.96,"end":13093.96,"text":"大家今天不把它討論進去"},{"start":13093.96,"end":13095.96,"text":"就先放著話"},{"start":13095.96,"end":13097.96,"text":"仍然有我的案子在"},{"start":13097.96,"end":13099.96,"text":"那我現在就先講"},{"start":13099.96,"end":13101.96,"text":"我剛剛跟文化部稍微利用休息時溝通了一下"},{"start":13101.96,"end":13103.96,"text":"那這樣子就說"},{"start":13103.96,"end":13105.96,"text":"教育部是凍結800萬"},{"start":13105.96,"end":13107.96,"text":"那我們就比照教育部先凍結800萬"},{"start":13107.96,"end":13109.96,"text":"但是我要求兩件事情文化部跟我說明"},{"start":13109.96,"end":13111.96,"text":"可以啦"},{"start":13111.96,"end":13113.96,"text":"先聽我講完"},{"start":13113.96,"end":13115.96,"text":"都已經跟"},{"start":13115.96,"end":13117.96,"text":"文化部已經講好了"},{"start":13117.96,"end":13119.96,"text":"那第二個就是說"},{"start":13119.96,"end":13121.96,"text":"我的疑慮我還是存在"},{"start":13121.96,"end":13123.96,"text":"第一個就是公信力的疑慮"},{"start":13123.96,"end":13125.96,"text":"我剛剛說過第二個是透明度的疑慮"},{"start":13125.96,"end":13127.96,"text":"那這兩個部分"},{"start":13127.96,"end":13129.96,"text":"麻煩文化部準備報告"},{"start":13129.96,"end":13131.96,"text":"然後我們再來溝通"},{"start":13131.96,"end":13133.96,"text":"那因為還有第二輪"},{"start":13133.96,"end":13135.96,"text":"第二輪到時候我們再看"},{"start":13135.96,"end":13137.96,"text":"的狀況再怎麼做進一步處理"},{"start":13137.96,"end":13139.96,"text":"因為為了這個預算我們實在是"},{"start":13139.96,"end":13141.96,"text":"已經增值太久了"},{"start":13141.96,"end":13143.96,"text":"我們今天就大家可能找一個比較"},{"start":13143.96,"end":13145.96,"text":"的地方處理"},{"start":13145.96,"end":13147.96,"text":"那我剛剛也跟翁曉營委員談過"},{"start":13147.96,"end":13149.96,"text":"翁曉營委員他會在二輪你們再"},{"start":13149.96,"end":13151.96,"text":"我最後再表達一下我的立場"},{"start":13151.96,"end":13153.96,"text":"我今天立場非常清楚"},{"start":13153.96,"end":13155.96,"text":"文化部部長還有在座的各位委員還有各位的這個同仁們都知道"},{"start":13155.96,"end":13157.96,"text":"我是堅持要刪"},{"start":13157.96,"end":13159.96,"text":"但是因為這個委員會"},{"start":13159.96,"end":13161.96,"text":"我還是尊重委員會最後的意見"},{"start":13161.96,"end":13163.96,"text":"那麼如果說最後"},{"start":13163.96,"end":13165.96,"text":"要改成凍結"},{"start":13165.96,"end":13167.96,"text":"我的案子不處理"},{"start":13167.96,"end":13169.96,"text":"我會在二輪的時候我會繼續提出全處刪除"},{"start":13169.96,"end":13171.96,"text":"因為這是一個非常重要的原則"},{"start":13171.96,"end":13173.96,"text":"那麼今天"},{"start":13173.96,"end":13175.96,"text":"就是這個委員們"},{"start":13175.96,"end":13177.96,"text":"認為說文化部的"},{"start":13177.96,"end":13179.96,"text":"沒宣費"},{"start":13179.96,"end":13181.96,"text":"有必要不刪"},{"start":13181.96,"end":13183.96,"text":"用凍的方式"},{"start":13184.1,"end":13186.1,"text":"我這邊就尊重稍微的決定"},{"start":13187.14,"end":13189.14,"text":"好先跟大家特別報告"},{"start":13189.14,"end":13191.14,"text":"這不是召委能夠單一做決定"},{"start":13191.14,"end":13193.14,"text":"那所以"},{"start":13193.14,"end":13195.14,"text":"也跟翁曉營委員特別講我們都一定"},{"start":13195.14,"end":13197.14,"text":"會尊重你的提案喔"},{"start":13197.14,"end":13199.14,"text":"只是今天只是為了要推進"},{"start":13199.14,"end":13201.14,"text":"絕對不是否定"},{"start":13201.14,"end":13203.14,"text":"絕對不是說拒絕委員的提案"},{"start":13203.14,"end":13205.14,"text":"因為作為主席我們就是希望"},{"start":13205.14,"end":13207.14,"text":"持續推進討論請委員能夠"},{"start":13207.14,"end":13209.14,"text":"諒解我不會做任何的決定"},{"start":13209.14,"end":13211.14,"text":"那現階段最後"},{"start":13211.96,"end":13213.96,"text":"其他的委員請提案"},{"start":13213.96,"end":13215.96,"text":"最終的版本"},{"start":13217.83,"end":13219.83,"text":"我們是共識決"},{"start":13219.83,"end":13221.83,"text":"我是覺得三百啦"},{"start":13221.83,"end":13223.83,"text":"你是多少我們大家喬一下"},{"start":13223.83,"end":13225.83,"text":"你要這樣講是兩千五百"},{"start":13225.83,"end":13227.83,"text":"平均一除以二"},{"start":13227.83,"end":13229.83,"text":"我們剛剛已經講到大家要凍結了"},{"start":13229.83,"end":13231.83,"text":"我覺得今天"},{"start":13231.83,"end":13233.83,"text":"不要得寸進尺"},{"start":13233.83,"end":13235.83,"text":"不影響他"},{"start":13235.83,"end":13237.83,"text":"我們一開始是三百耶"},{"start":13237.83,"end":13239.83,"text":"是你才得寸進尺"},{"start":13239.83,"end":13241.83,"text":"我們一開始上午跟蔡學友委員都達成到"},{"start":13241.83,"end":13243.83,"text":"三百耶"},{"start":13243.83,"end":13245.83,"text":"拜託我們一開始都已經"},{"start":13245.83,"end":13247.83,"text":"達成共識了"},{"start":13248.01,"end":13250.01,"text":"跨黨派的共識"},{"start":13250.01,"end":13252.01,"text":"不要一人推三"},{"start":13253.39,"end":13255.39,"text":"好那我就"},{"start":13255.39,"end":13257.39,"text":"因為為了這個繼續開會"},{"start":13257.39,"end":13259.39,"text":"我高血壓也現在很高"},{"start":13259.39,"end":13261.39,"text":"為了保命的話"},{"start":13261.39,"end":13263.39,"text":"我就同意這個凍結八百"},{"start":13263.39,"end":13265.39,"text":"希望你們幫我們解凍"},{"start":13265.39,"end":13267.39,"text":"我們會立刻寫了"},{"start":13267.39,"end":13269.39,"text":"所有的資料給你們謝謝"},{"start":13269.74,"end":13271.74,"text":"好那部會說八百"},{"start":13271.74,"end":13273.74,"text":"有沒有意見"},{"start":13274.57,"end":13276.57,"text":"好沒有意見那我們向下推進"},{"start":13278.82,"end":13280.82,"text":"好第一項文化不同案的部分"},{"start":13280.82,"end":13282.82,"text":"媒體政策及業務"},{"start":13282.82,"end":13284.82,"text":"宣導費提案號六到十案"},{"start":13284.82,"end":13286.82,"text":"審查結果八到九"},{"start":13286.82,"end":13288.82,"text":"案是改為"},{"start":13288.82,"end":13290.82,"text":"主決議"},{"start":13290.82,"end":13292.82,"text":"除以上個案"},{"start":13292.82,"end":13294.82,"text":"我們現在凍結八百萬"},{"start":13294.82,"end":13296.82,"text":"提出書面報告"},{"start":13296.82,"end":13298.82,"text":"經委員同意"},{"start":13298.82,"end":13300.82,"text":"才使得動之接著處理"},{"start":13301.3,"end":13303.3,"text":"第一項"},{"start":13302.51,"end":13304.51,"text":"文化部黑潮計畫"},{"start":13304.51,"end":13306.51,"text":"提案號第十一案"},{"start":13308.22,"end":13310.22,"text":"劉樹斌委員"},{"start":13312.18,"end":13314.18,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":13314.46,"end":13316.46,"text":"這個案子是要"},{"start":13316.46,"end":13318.46,"text":"推展"},{"start":13318.46,"end":13320.46,"text":"我們壯大台灣跟建議文化自信"},{"start":13320.46,"end":13322.46,"text":"的黑潮"},{"start":13322.46,"end":13324.46,"text":"台灣"},{"start":13323.82,"end":13325.82,"text":"黑潮"},{"start":13325.82,"end":13327.82,"text":"這個部分經過"},{"start":13327.82,"end":13329.82,"text":"次長來說明"},{"start":13329.82,"end":13331.82,"text":"之後其實我發覺到"},{"start":13331.82,"end":13333.82,"text":"做得蠻多的事情"},{"start":13333.82,"end":13335.82,"text":"是值得肯定的但是"},{"start":13335.82,"end":13337.82,"text":"在有些部分當中我想要"},{"start":13337.82,"end":13339.82,"text":"提供的一些意見是因為"},{"start":13339.82,"end":13341.82,"text":"曾經在這個"},{"start":13341.82,"end":13343.82,"text":"計畫是2024到2027"},{"start":13343.82,"end":13345.82,"text":"那我們看到就是說有一個案子"},{"start":13345.82,"end":13347.82,"text":"是比較特殊就是林業公擠"},{"start":13347.82,"end":13349.82,"text":"那這個部分2024的"},{"start":13349.82,"end":13351.82,"text":"那這個部分呢"},{"start":13351.82,"end":13353.82,"text":"事實上是當初大家說有一些這樣的"},{"start":13353.82,"end":13355.82,"text":"一個疑義不過這些部分我看到"},{"start":13355.82,"end":13357.82,"text":"的全部的疑問的發展之後"},{"start":13357.82,"end":13359.82,"text":"我是覺得這邊可能是在"},{"start":13359.82,"end":13361.82,"text":"他的審查透明度這邊審查"},{"start":13361.82,"end":13363.82,"text":"項目上面是需要在"},{"start":13363.82,"end":13365.82,"text":"讓大家知道說可以說是不是會有"},{"start":13365.82,"end":13367.82,"text":"有點那個政治宣傳的意義"},{"start":13367.82,"end":13369.82,"text":"可是我覺得要化解疑義的話"},{"start":13369.82,"end":13371.82,"text":"就是說希望在他的"},{"start":13371.82,"end":13373.82,"text":"審查的"},{"start":13373.82,"end":13375.82,"text":"這個項目跟審查透明度能夠"},{"start":13375.82,"end":13377.82,"text":"我覺得會再往這邊放下去發展我覺得"},{"start":13377.82,"end":13379.82,"text":"是可以接受的然後"},{"start":13379.82,"end":13381.82,"text":"還有一個問題是在說"},{"start":13381.82,"end":13383.82,"text":"他這個計畫真的是跨到的"},{"start":13383.82,"end":13385.82,"text":"目前在預算書裡面是跨到"},{"start":13385.82,"end":13387.82,"text":"六項的內六個項目"},{"start":13387.82,"end":13389.82,"text":"那"},{"start":13389.54,"end":13391.54,"text":"我是覺得可是因為預算書就是這樣規定"},{"start":13391.54,"end":13393.54,"text":"那沒有問題可是我是想說因為"},{"start":13393.54,"end":13395.54,"text":"市長你也說過其實你們在你們文化部"},{"start":13395.54,"end":13397.54,"text":"裡面是針對黑潮計畫好像有特別的"},{"start":13397.54,"end":13399.54,"text":"一本的預算"},{"start":13399.54,"end":13401.54,"text":"但是我是說能不能說"},{"start":13401.54,"end":13403.54,"text":"對於委員們在審查的時候"},{"start":13403.54,"end":13405.54,"text":"是方便的話是不是可以針對"},{"start":13405.54,"end":13407.54,"text":"黑潮計畫的部分"},{"start":13407.54,"end":13409.54,"text":"把它做一些簡略的重點"},{"start":13409.54,"end":13411.54,"text":"再跟另外再附給"},{"start":13411.54,"end":13413.54,"text":"也許就是先以教文委員會的委員為主"},{"start":13413.54,"end":13415.54,"text":"來去刷那不然的話其實"},{"start":13415.54,"end":13417.54,"text":"只有其他委員會的委員再跟你們"},{"start":13417.54,"end":13419.54,"text":"去要這個部分"},{"start":13419.54,"end":13421.54,"text":"然後第三個部分我是希望說"},{"start":13421.54,"end":13423.54,"text":"在執行的成效這邊"},{"start":13423.54,"end":13425.54,"text":"你們有建議說"},{"start":13425.54,"end":13427.54,"text":"我可能主決議啦那我是希望說"},{"start":13427.54,"end":13429.54,"text":"在執行成效這邊因為我看到的是"},{"start":13429.54,"end":13431.54,"text":"成效這邊"},{"start":13431.54,"end":13433.54,"text":"因為成效這邊我想要具體"},{"start":13433.54,"end":13435.54,"text":"的內容包括說他成效的"},{"start":13435.54,"end":13437.54,"text":"項目是什麼"},{"start":13437.54,"end":13439.54,"text":"你在對執行成效裡面的"},{"start":13439.54,"end":13441.54,"text":"檢核他的項目是什麼"},{"start":13441.54,"end":13443.54,"text":"還有他的KPI是什麼我希望能夠"},{"start":13443.54,"end":13445.54,"text":"在這邊能夠"},{"start":13445.54,"end":13447.54,"text":"更清楚的讓我們書面知道"},{"start":13447.54,"end":13449.54,"text":"知道的話我就是覺得會在"},{"start":13449.54,"end":13451.54,"text":"改成說像主決議的方式"},{"start":13451.54,"end":13453.54,"text":"因為本來是想改成"},{"start":13453.54,"end":13455.54,"text":"主決議但是希望是說因為"},{"start":13455.54,"end":13457.54,"text":"還是有監督的情況我在想說"},{"start":13457.54,"end":13459.54,"text":"是不是我原來這個"},{"start":13459.54,"end":13461.54,"text":"24年度的計畫"},{"start":13461.54,"end":13463.54,"text":"是27億那我本來"},{"start":13463.54,"end":13465.54,"text":"是動"},{"start":13465.54,"end":13467.54,"text":"是動10%那我現在"},{"start":13467.54,"end":13469.54,"text":"是說我動1%就好了"},{"start":13471.23,"end":13473.23,"text":"這樣子的方式動這個方式"},{"start":13473.23,"end":13475.23,"text":"2700啊"},{"start":13475.23,"end":13477.23,"text":"我現在200對不起"},{"start":13477.23,"end":13479.23,"text":"10%是2700啊"},{"start":13479.23,"end":13481.23,"text":"那就是200多萬"},{"start":13481.23,"end":13483.23,"text":"200多萬就好了"},{"start":13483.23,"end":13485.23,"text":"所以0.1%對對對"},{"start":13485.23,"end":13487.23,"text":"你要動0.1%"},{"start":13487.23,"end":13489.23,"text":"我的意思就是說還是讓他覺得"},{"start":13489.23,"end":13491.23,"text":"這個計畫不曉得能不能"},{"start":13491.23,"end":13493.23,"text":"你要不要講個整數數字啊"},{"start":13493.23,"end":13495.23,"text":"200萬或是270萬這樣子"},{"start":13495.23,"end":13497.23,"text":"217變200"},{"start":13497.23,"end":13499.23,"text":"200對就是因為我看到他們"},{"start":13499.23,"end":13501.23,"text":"的確也真的做了蠻多"},{"start":13501.23,"end":13503.23,"text":"包括楊雙子的計畫"},{"start":13503.23,"end":13505.23,"text":"的這個書的部分"},{"start":13505.23,"end":13507.23,"text":"他可以擴展就是在過去"},{"start":13507.23,"end":13509.23,"text":"在出版業當中"},{"start":13509.23,"end":13511.23,"text":"是非常的究竟有誰做的"},{"start":13511.23,"end":13513.23,"text":"我覺得非常好的"},{"start":13513.23,"end":13515.23,"text":"200"},{"start":13515.23,"end":13517.23,"text":"文化部有沒有意見"},{"start":13518.33,"end":13520.33,"text":"凍結200"},{"start":13521.92,"end":13523.92,"text":"我們裡面的預算我們自己"},{"start":13523.92,"end":13525.92,"text":"自行調整"},{"start":13525.92,"end":13527.92,"text":"不要調整啦你應該是要"},{"start":13527.92,"end":13529.92,"text":"想把說服委員去解凍"},{"start":13529.92,"end":13531.92,"text":"不要因為數目少"},{"start":13531.92,"end":13533.92,"text":"就說我也不差這個錢我再來"},{"start":13533.92,"end":13535.92,"text":"不是不是我講錯對不起"},{"start":13535.92,"end":13537.92,"text":"好啦好啦"},{"start":13537.92,"end":13539.92,"text":"200萬"},{"start":13539.92,"end":13541.92,"text":"這個第11案我們凍結"},{"start":13541.92,"end":13543.92,"text":"200萬提出書面報告"},{"start":13543.92,"end":13545.92,"text":"後經委員同意喔才可以"},{"start":13545.92,"end":13547.92,"text":"使得凍之"},{"start":13547.15,"end":13549.15,"text":"那"},{"start":13549.07,"end":13551.07,"text":"我知道"},{"start":13551.01,"end":13553.01,"text":"好接著主委第一項文化不同案"},{"start":13553.01,"end":13555.01,"text":"部分業務費喔案號案"},{"start":13555.01,"end":13557.01,"text":"12案到16案"},{"start":13560.11,"end":13562.11,"text":"12到16"},{"start":13561.89,"end":13563.89,"text":"好那大家都沒有舉手"},{"start":13563.89,"end":13565.89,"text":"那我先講了喔"},{"start":13567.73,"end":13569.73,"text":"我們現在呢要討論到的第12案"},{"start":13569.73,"end":13571.73,"text":"請大家可以看一下喔"},{"start":13571.73,"end":13573.73,"text":"文化部在綜合規劃的業務呢"},{"start":13573.73,"end":13575.73,"text":"我們有新增辦理一個"},{"start":13575.73,"end":13577.73,"text":"業務計畫叫做文化與AI"},{"start":13577.73,"end":13579.73,"text":"融合的這個創新計畫"},{"start":13579.73,"end":13581.73,"text":"還有影視及"},{"start":13581.73,"end":13583.73,"text":"流行音樂策劃的發展"},{"start":13583.73,"end":13585.73,"text":"工作計畫項目也新增了"},{"start":13585.73,"end":13587.73,"text":"一個AI創新應用的一個"},{"start":13587.73,"end":13589.73,"text":"服務計畫"},{"start":13589.73,"end":13591.73,"text":"那文化創意產業的"},{"start":13591.73,"end":13593.73,"text":"發展業務呢下面也新增"},{"start":13593.73,"end":13595.73,"text":"了空總台灣當代"},{"start":13595.73,"end":13597.73,"text":"文化實驗場第三期的"},{"start":13597.73,"end":13599.73,"text":"整體發展計畫"},{"start":13599.73,"end":13601.73,"text":"新增辦理之"},{"start":13601.73,"end":13603.73,"text":"跨單位的人文驅動未來"},{"start":13603.73,"end":13605.73,"text":"社會關鍵"},{"start":13605.73,"end":13607.73,"text":"課題的研究跟發展的一個計畫"},{"start":13607.73,"end":13609.73,"text":"總共有四項"},{"start":13609.73,"end":13611.73,"text":"是新興計畫喔四項"},{"start":13612.82,"end":13614.82,"text":"那在這個預算案"},{"start":13614.82,"end":13616.82,"text":"送本院審議前呢"},{"start":13616.82,"end":13618.82,"text":"尚未獲行政院核定"},{"start":13618.84,"end":13620.84,"text":"就先行編列預算"},{"start":13621.15,"end":13623.15,"text":"違反了預算法的規定"},{"start":13623.15,"end":13625.15,"text":"我覺得有檢討的一個必要"},{"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請說明"},{"start":13748.29,"end":13750.29,"text":"跟委員做一個報告"},{"start":13750.29,"end":13752.29,"text":"剛剛委員提到這幾項計畫"},{"start":13752.29,"end":13754.29,"text":"其中屬於新興計畫"},{"start":13754.29,"end":13757.29,"text":"只有文化與AI融合的這支創新計畫"},{"start":13757.29,"end":13758.29,"text":"其他案子空總"},{"start":13758.29,"end":13759.29,"text":"因為他是第三期計畫"},{"start":13759.29,"end":13761.29,"text":"所以他其實是一個延續型的計畫"},{"start":13761.29,"end":13763.29,"text":"事實上他在行政院"},{"start":13763.29,"end":13764.29,"text":"因為我們原來就有第二期"},{"start":13764.29,"end":13765.29,"text":"所以他是第三期"},{"start":13765.29,"end":13767.29,"text":"他是屬於延續虛擬的計畫"},{"start":13767.29,"end":13769.29,"text":"另外在人文驅動的未來"},{"start":13769.29,"end":13771.29,"text":"社會關鍵的議題的部分"},{"start":13771.29,"end":13772.29,"text":"他是屬於科技計畫"},{"start":13772.29,"end":13774.29,"text":"是由國科會這邊核定的"},{"start":13774.29,"end":13777.29,"text":"所以他基本上都已經在完全審議之後"},{"start":13777.29,"end":13779.29,"text":"我們才同意編列這個預算"},{"start":13779.29,"end":13780.29,"text":"所以並沒有說"},{"start":13780.29,"end":13782.29,"text":"我們在沒有同意之前"},{"start":13782.29,"end":13783.29,"text":"就編列預算的情形"},{"start":13783.29,"end":13784.29,"text":"那第二部分"},{"start":13784.29,"end":13786.29,"text":"剛剛委員有特別關切到的就是"},{"start":13786.29,"end":13788.29,"text":"我們有一支計畫"},{"start":13788.29,"end":13789.29,"text":"叫文化與AI融合"},{"start":13789.29,"end":13790.29,"text":"為什麼是新興計畫"},{"start":13790.29,"end":13792.29,"text":"我們卻有一個採購的部分"},{"start":13792.29,"end":13793.29,"text":"過年報告"},{"start":13793.29,"end":13795.29,"text":"因為我們現在推動AI的相關預算"},{"start":13795.29,"end":13797.29,"text":"但是我們盤點了整個文化部"},{"start":13797.29,"end":13798.29,"text":"我們並沒有任何"},{"start":13798.29,"end":13800.29,"text":"跟AI有關的設備跟算力"},{"start":13800.29,"end":13801.29,"text":"所以我們是在去年"},{"start":13801.29,"end":13803.29,"text":"我們每一年其實都編列"},{"start":13803.29,"end":13804.29,"text":"一個資訊設備的更新"},{"start":13804.29,"end":13806.29,"text":"跟整個系統的改善的計畫"},{"start":13806.29,"end":13808.29,"text":"所以我們去年在2014年"},{"start":13808.29,"end":13809.29,"text":"我們採購的計畫是"},{"start":13809.29,"end":13811.29,"text":"用文化部的資訊設備費"},{"start":13811.29,"end":13814.29,"text":"來採購我們AI所需要的設備跟算力"},{"start":13814.29,"end":13815.29,"text":"只是他同時"},{"start":13815.29,"end":13817.29,"text":"如果今年新興計畫通過的時候"},{"start":13817.29,"end":13819.29,"text":"我們可以做為今年新興計畫之用"},{"start":13819.29,"end":13821.29,"text":"好那我們主要的用途是這樣"},{"start":13821.29,"end":13822.29,"text":"那我們在115年的"},{"start":13822.29,"end":13823.29,"text":"這個AI的融合的新興計畫"},{"start":13823.29,"end":13825.29,"text":"是沒有編列任何資本門"},{"start":13825.29,"end":13826.29,"text":"依照速發部的規定"},{"start":13826.29,"end":13828.29,"text":"他本來就不可以編列設備費"},{"start":13828.29,"end":13830.29,"text":"所以我們並沒有動用"},{"start":13830.29,"end":13831.29,"text":"115年的相關的預算"},{"start":13831.29,"end":13833.29,"text":"那另外剛剛委員有提到說"},{"start":13833.29,"end":13834.29,"text":"我們的採購裡頭"},{"start":13834.29,"end":13836.29,"text":"負責人好像涉及到其他的案子"},{"start":13836.29,"end":13838.29,"text":"但因為我們採購這家公司"},{"start":13838.29,"end":13840.29,"text":"他基本上還是在工程會"},{"start":13840.29,"end":13842.29,"text":"他並沒有被列為拒絕的廠商"},{"start":13842.29,"end":13844.29,"text":"所以我們是依照公開的採購的方式"},{"start":13844.29,"end":13846.29,"text":"然後讓他們來競標"},{"start":13846.29,"end":13848.29,"text":"所以並沒有去涉及相關的弊案的部分"},{"start":13848.29,"end":13850.29,"text":"以上先跟委員做簡單的報告"},{"start":13850.29,"end":13852.29,"text":"好你們跟外美林委員"},{"start":13852.29,"end":13854.29,"text":"在溝通的過程當中"},{"start":13854.29,"end":13856.29,"text":"你們也跟他們講說"},{"start":13856.29,"end":13858.29,"text":"是整個標案的名稱物質"},{"start":13858.29,"end":13860.29,"text":"你們也跟他們講說"},{"start":13860.29,"end":13862.29,"text":"是整個標案的名稱物質"},{"start":13862.28,"end":13864.28,"text":"拿標案的名稱物質"},{"start":13866.23,"end":13868.23,"text":"來說服委員"},{"start":13868.23,"end":13870.23,"text":"我認為"},{"start":13869.77,"end":13871.77,"text":"很難有公信力"},{"start":13871.77,"end":13873.77,"text":"剛剛你也有特別提到"},{"start":13873.77,"end":13875.77,"text":"你說這一個空總台灣"},{"start":13875.77,"end":13877.77,"text":"當代文化實驗場第三期"},{"start":13877.77,"end":13879.77,"text":"他是延續的"},{"start":13879.77,"end":13881.77,"text":"但是人文驅動的部分"},{"start":13881.77,"end":13883.77,"text":"你就是這就是新興的"},{"start":13883.77,"end":13885.77,"text":"那我們可以看到"},{"start":13885.77,"end":13887.77,"text":"那你說是國科會"},{"start":13887.77,"end":13889.77,"text":"那我要講說預算還沒有審你們不是都說不能動嗎"},{"start":13889.77,"end":13891.77,"text":"結果你們現在又可以動"},{"start":13891.77,"end":13893.77,"text":"不管他是國科會還是文化部"},{"start":13893.77,"end":13895.77,"text":"你們就動了嘛這就是事實"},{"start":13895.77,"end":13897.77,"text":"再來你跟"},{"start":13897.77,"end":13899.77,"text":"外美林委員回答是什麼"},{"start":13899.77,"end":13901.77,"text":"我跟你講外美林委員特別請我一定要"},{"start":13901.77,"end":13903.77,"text":"監督這件事情你用物質"},{"start":13903.77,"end":13905.77,"text":"標案來告訴委員"},{"start":13907.94,"end":13909.94,"text":"我認為說不過去啊"},{"start":13909.94,"end":13911.94,"text":"標案可以物質對不起我沒辦法接受"},{"start":13912.82,"end":13914.82,"text":"我也請在場所有委員評評理"},{"start":13914.82,"end":13916.82,"text":"他跟委員"},{"start":13916.82,"end":13918.82,"text":"回應是物質標案"},{"start":13919.77,"end":13921.77,"text":"你們相信嗎"},{"start":13921.68,"end":13923.68,"text":"再來"},{"start":13923.37,"end":13925.37,"text":"這一個所謂為標者"},{"start":13925.37,"end":13927.37,"text":"他有所謂的採購弊案"},{"start":13927.37,"end":13929.37,"text":"有疑慮啊"},{"start":13929.37,"end":13931.37,"text":"工程會沒有去阻擋"},{"start":13931.37,"end":13933.37,"text":"難道文化部在發報的過程中"},{"start":13933.37,"end":13935.37,"text":"沒有去研究一下或者是"},{"start":13935.37,"end":13937.37,"text":"發報後沒有去做探討嗎"},{"start":13937.37,"end":13939.37,"text":"那現在我們點出了問題你給有"},{"start":13939.37,"end":13941.37,"text":"為標的人去標到了"},{"start":13942.1,"end":13944.1,"text":"這不就是我們不監督的話"},{"start":13944.1,"end":13946.1,"text":"等於是放任這種事情嗎"},{"start":13946.1,"end":13948.1,"text":"我不能夠接受所謂的標案"},{"start":13948.1,"end":13950.1,"text":"物質這幾個字"},{"start":13950.1,"end":13952.1,"text":"就想要呼攏帶過"},{"start":13953.84,"end":13955.84,"text":"好所以"},{"start":13955.46,"end":13957.46,"text":"我覺得這有必要"},{"start":13957.46,"end":13959.46,"text":"要簡略跟凍結"},{"start":13968.84,"end":13970.84,"text":"好其實"},{"start":13970.84,"end":13972.84,"text":"兩個點我覺得為支持就是"},{"start":13972.84,"end":13974.84,"text":"簡略凍結"},{"start":13974.84,"end":13976.84,"text":"第一就是標案物質這個理由"},{"start":13976.84,"end":13978.84,"text":"說真的很難接受"},{"start":13978.84,"end":13980.84,"text":"那第二個"},{"start":13980.84,"end":13982.84,"text":"知道政府其實我們人民對於所謂的"},{"start":13982.84,"end":13984.84,"text":"政府的清廉跟所謂的"},{"start":13984.84,"end":13986.84,"text":"守法的要求非常的高"},{"start":13986.84,"end":13988.84,"text":"那既然都有這個所謂的"},{"start":13988.84,"end":13990.84,"text":"圍標的這種"},{"start":13990.84,"end":13992.84,"text":"相關的一些爭議出現"},{"start":13992.84,"end":13994.84,"text":"那我覺得"},{"start":13994.84,"end":13996.84,"text":"應該要同意先於簡略"},{"start":13996.84,"end":13998.84,"text":"並與凍結以上"},{"start":14000.67,"end":14002.67,"text":"好"},{"start":14001.87,"end":14003.87,"text":"那我們現在來處理這一項"},{"start":14004.35,"end":14006.35,"text":"第一項文化部五通案的部分業務費"},{"start":14006.35,"end":14008.35,"text":"提案案號第十二案到十六案"},{"start":14008.35,"end":14010.35,"text":"改為主決議的有十三"},{"start":14010.35,"end":14012.35,"text":"十五"},{"start":14012.35,"end":14014.35,"text":"另外因為我有提到第十二案"},{"start":14014.35,"end":14016.35,"text":"有這個相關圍標的"},{"start":14016.35,"end":14018.35,"text":"人得標"},{"start":14018.35,"end":14020.35,"text":"然後還有這個物質標案的一個"},{"start":14020.35,"end":14022.35,"text":"現況"},{"start":14022.35,"end":14024.35,"text":"所以要求"},{"start":14024.35,"end":14026.35,"text":"羅庭偉萬美齡我們共同來提案"},{"start":14026.35,"end":14028.35,"text":"是簡略五千萬"},{"start":14028.35,"end":14030.35,"text":"凍結五趴"},{"start":14034.66,"end":14036.66,"text":"等一下稍後一下"},{"start":14036.66,"end":14038.66,"text":"那個文化部門要說明一下嗎"},{"start":14038.66,"end":14040.66,"text":"因為剛剛什麼物質標案這個"},{"start":14040.66,"end":14042.66,"text":"請說明一下看實際的狀況"},{"start":14042.66,"end":14044.66,"text":"跟委員說明喔"},{"start":14044.66,"end":14046.66,"text":"這個一一五年的國科會的這一次"},{"start":14046.66,"end":14048.66,"text":"文化與AI融合創新法"},{"start":14048.66,"end":14050.66,"text":"他已經明定他不能購買設備"},{"start":14050.66,"end":14052.66,"text":"所以我們是用一一四年"},{"start":14052.66,"end":14054.66,"text":"我們文化部的結一款"},{"start":14054.66,"end":14056.66,"text":"去為了應用一一五年的這一次計畫"},{"start":14056.66,"end":14058.66,"text":"以及因為一一四年"},{"start":14058.66,"end":14060.66,"text":"我們文化部內都沒有"},{"start":14060.66,"end":14062.66,"text":"這個AI的算力"},{"start":14062.66,"end":14064.66,"text":"所以我們才用生銀款去購買"},{"start":14064.66,"end":14066.66,"text":"然後計畫名稱"},{"start":14066.66,"end":14068.66,"text":"只是跟我們一一五"},{"start":14068.66,"end":14070.66,"text":"文化與AI融合創新計畫的"},{"start":14070.66,"end":14072.66,"text":"運算力支援硬體的"},{"start":14072.66,"end":14074.66,"text":"設備採購案"},{"start":14074.66,"end":14076.66,"text":"那另外跟委員說明喔"},{"start":14076.66,"end":14078.66,"text":"因為剛剛委員提到的"},{"start":14078.66,"end":14080.66,"text":"雖然這一家有"},{"start":14080.66,"end":14082.66,"text":"涉及圍標但是因為我們是"},{"start":14082.66,"end":14084.66,"text":"採公開招標然後以"},{"start":14084.66,"end":14086.66,"text":"最低"},{"start":14086.53,"end":14088.53,"text":"標準得標那來投標的有三家"},{"start":14088.53,"end":14090.53,"text":"然後這一家是最低標"},{"start":14090.53,"end":14092.53,"text":"那他也沒有在工程會的"},{"start":14092.53,"end":14094.53,"text":"這個拒絕往來所以"},{"start":14094.53,"end":14096.53,"text":"我也沒辦法拒絕他來投標的這個事實"},{"start":14099.08,"end":14101.08,"text":"好"},{"start":14100.8,"end":14102.8,"text":"他有涉及圍標的這個"},{"start":14102.8,"end":14104.8,"text":"弊案嘛但是你沒有"},{"start":14104.8,"end":14106.8,"text":"這個資格拒絕他"},{"start":14106.8,"end":14108.8,"text":"我知道所以我幫你拒絕"},{"start":14108.8,"end":14110.8,"text":"所以我認為"},{"start":14110.8,"end":14112.8,"text":"已經有被他標到了那有疑慮"},{"start":14112.8,"end":14114.8,"text":"所以本為監督"},{"start":14114.8,"end":14116.8,"text":"的一個事實我一定要想辦法"},{"start":14116.8,"end":14118.8,"text":"阻擋那你說工程"},{"start":14118.8,"end":14120.8,"text":"招標的流程你沒辦法拒絕好沒關係"},{"start":14120.8,"end":14122.8,"text":"但我現在發現他也標到了"},{"start":14122.8,"end":14124.8,"text":"我必須要處理啊再者我們現在"},{"start":14124.8,"end":14126.8,"text":"看到說整個預算"},{"start":14126.8,"end":14128.8,"text":"沒有通過中華民國"},{"start":14128.8,"end":14130.8,"text":"中華民國沒辦法執行任何業務"},{"start":14130.8,"end":14132.8,"text":"可是事實上你們就是透過了"},{"start":14132.8,"end":14134.8,"text":"其他的行政程序去處理了"},{"start":14134.8,"end":14136.8,"text":"發包也發包完成了"},{"start":14136.8,"end":14138.8,"text":"現在發包完成了對不對"},{"start":14138.8,"end":14140.8,"text":"也被他標到了嘛是對嘛"},{"start":14140.8,"end":14142.8,"text":"所以還是可以運作"},{"start":14142.8,"end":14144.8,"text":"就正式的告訴全體"},{"start":14144.8,"end":14146.8,"text":"國人嘛這是事實啊"},{"start":14148.68,"end":14152.68,"text":"所以有物質的一個狀況你跟我講"},{"start":14152.68,"end":14154.68,"text":"對不起我沒辦法接受"},{"start":14154.68,"end":14156.68,"text":"有微標的人標到我沒辦法接受"},{"start":14156.68,"end":14158.68,"text":"那你還是有辦法去"},{"start":14158.68,"end":14160.68,"text":"我們還沒有審理預算"},{"start":14160.68,"end":14162.68,"text":"一方面有人喊說沒辦法動"},{"start":14162.68,"end":14164.68,"text":"一方面沒有啊"},{"start":14164.68,"end":14166.68,"text":"實際上已經標出去了啊"},{"start":14166.58,"end":14168.58,"text":"這跟國人說明了嘛"},{"start":14169.08,"end":14171.08,"text":"所以喊窮都喊假的嘛"},{"start":14174.11,"end":14176.11,"text":"不好意思跟委員再做一個補充"},{"start":14176.11,"end":14178.11,"text":"因為115年的這個"},{"start":14178.11,"end":14180.11,"text":"文化跟AI融合"},{"start":14180.11,"end":14182.11,"text":"編列2000多萬"},{"start":14182.11,"end":14184.11,"text":"這筆預算我們到目前是沒有動支的"},{"start":14184.11,"end":14186.11,"text":"依照規定是新興計畫所以我們沒有動支"},{"start":14186.11,"end":14188.11,"text":"那剛剛委員提的是我們在"},{"start":14188.11,"end":14190.11,"text":"114年採購一個設備"},{"start":14190.11,"end":14192.11,"text":"但同仁呢他為了預期是未來"},{"start":14192.11,"end":14194.11,"text":"可能會提供這個計畫使用"},{"start":14194.11,"end":14196.11,"text":"所以他在招標的時候就寫了"},{"start":14196.11,"end":14198.11,"text":"這個計畫的名稱採購設備"},{"start":14198.11,"end":14200.11,"text":"所以他並不是用150年的新興計畫"},{"start":14200.11,"end":14202.11,"text":"所以這部分我們確實要檢討"},{"start":14202.11,"end":14204.11,"text":"我們事實上是我們是買了這個設備"},{"start":14204.11,"end":14206.11,"text":"是未來要支應這個計畫使用"},{"start":14206.11,"end":14208.11,"text":"但他並不是用這個計畫"},{"start":14208.11,"end":14210.11,"text":"因為這個計畫並沒有編列設備"},{"start":14210.11,"end":14212.11,"text":"依照規定就是不能編列設備要由機關自己自籌"},{"start":14212.11,"end":14214.11,"text":"所以這部分我們是可以來檢討"},{"start":14214.11,"end":14216.11,"text":"那你有承認他就是預先想到未來需要他去買了嗎"},{"start":14216.11,"end":14218.11,"text":"不是不是因為本來那個計畫"},{"start":14218.11,"end":14220.11,"text":"在114年速發部就已經通過了"},{"start":14220.11,"end":14222.11,"text":"所以通過之後就停我們"},{"start":14222.11,"end":14224.11,"text":"設備要自己自籌"},{"start":14224.11,"end":14226.11,"text":"然後那個今年度預算不可以用在設備"},{"start":14226.11,"end":14228.11,"text":"要我們自己先採購設備"},{"start":14228.11,"end":14230.11,"text":"所以我們才會用我們自己的設備"},{"start":14230.11,"end":14232.11,"text":"所以文化部很棒"},{"start":14232.11,"end":14234.11,"text":"就他有自己的方法還是有辦法去"},{"start":14234.11,"end":14236.11,"text":"支應未來的狀況"},{"start":14236.11,"end":14238.11,"text":"那事實上就是有去採購"},{"start":14238.11,"end":14240.11,"text":"有發包"},{"start":14240.11,"end":14242.11,"text":"你還是沒有辦法解釋我"},{"start":14242.11,"end":14244.11,"text":"最後一項跟你問的一件事情"},{"start":14244.11,"end":14246.11,"text":"為標者有弊案"},{"start":14246.11,"end":14248.11,"text":"現在被他標到了"},{"start":14248.11,"end":14250.11,"text":"那你說你阻擋不了"},{"start":14250.11,"end":14252.11,"text":"那你不能夠告訴立法委員我不能阻擋啊"},{"start":14252.02,"end":14254.02,"text":"他涉及為標"},{"start":14254.02,"end":14256.02,"text":"但他並沒有在工程會列這個拒絕"},{"start":14256.02,"end":14258.02,"text":"我知道我都知道你講過了"},{"start":14258.02,"end":14260.02,"text":"所以工程會沒有要求你拒絕他"},{"start":14260.02,"end":14262.02,"text":"你沒有依據可以拒絕他"},{"start":14262.02,"end":14264.02,"text":"那立法委員"},{"start":14264.02,"end":14266.02,"text":"用最高的原則"},{"start":14266.02,"end":14268.02,"text":"我覺得要有疑慮"},{"start":14268.02,"end":14270.02,"text":"所以我先凍結後面想辦法的時候"},{"start":14270.02,"end":14272.02,"text":"再來討論嘛"},{"start":14272.27,"end":14274.27,"text":"對不對我在守護的是納稅錢啊"},{"start":14276.59,"end":14278.59,"text":"那請問凍結的數額"},{"start":14278.59,"end":14280.59,"text":"因為聽起來"},{"start":14280.59,"end":14282.59,"text":"聽起來好像"},{"start":14282.59,"end":14284.59,"text":"在理解上有一點落差"},{"start":14284.59,"end":14286.59,"text":"就是工程會"},{"start":14286.59,"end":14288.59,"text":"確實如果對於一些招標"},{"start":14288.59,"end":14290.59,"text":"採購案如果有明確的"},{"start":14290.59,"end":14292.59,"text":"違法市政他就會被列為"},{"start":14292.59,"end":14294.59,"text":"政府採購的黑名單"},{"start":14294.59,"end":14296.59,"text":"所以在各個"},{"start":14296.59,"end":14298.59,"text":"部會要採購的時候"},{"start":14298.59,"end":14300.59,"text":"他就會橫向聯繫這一家"},{"start":14300.59,"end":14302.59,"text":"不能來投"},{"start":14302.59,"end":14304.59,"text":"但是這一家如果就剛剛"},{"start":14304.59,"end":14306.59,"text":"那立法部的說明是"},{"start":14306.59,"end":14308.59,"text":"不是整個公司"},{"start":14308.59,"end":14310.59,"text":"是當中的人士"},{"start":14310.59,"end":14312.59,"text":"有過去的某個案子"},{"start":14312.59,"end":14314.59,"text":"可能有類似被"},{"start":14314.59,"end":14316.59,"text":"什麼樣子的因為我真的不知道"},{"start":14316.59,"end":14318.59,"text":"這個實際內容但是整個公司的"},{"start":14318.59,"end":14320.59,"text":"運作沒有被排除在"},{"start":14320.59,"end":14322.59,"text":"這個黑名單內然後被排除"},{"start":14322.59,"end":14324.59,"text":"在政府採購所以確實你們沒有"},{"start":14324.59,"end":14326.59,"text":"辦法在那個當下去預警"},{"start":14326.59,"end":14328.59,"text":"那現在就要回到這個案子"},{"start":14328.59,"end":14330.59,"text":"的執行啊"},{"start":14330.59,"end":14332.59,"text":"那個昭偉想要做一點"},{"start":14332.59,"end":14334.59,"text":"來督促你們來檢視"},{"start":14334.59,"end":14336.59,"text":"我覺得也可以"},{"start":14336.59,"end":14338.59,"text":"只是說在金額的部分"},{"start":14338.59,"end":14340.59,"text":"大家怎麼樣不影響這"},{"start":14340.59,"end":14342.59,"text":"整個我坦白講你們也是有一點"},{"start":14344,"end":14346,"text":"這個叫做受害人"},{"start":14346,"end":14348,"text":"他們真的也是有一點"},{"start":14348,"end":14350,"text":"受害者的角色"},{"start":14350,"end":14352,"text":"所以是不是在凍結的金額上我們大家"},{"start":14352,"end":14354,"text":"可以商量一下那主席剛剛"},{"start":14354,"end":14356,"text":"所說的主席的出發點是"},{"start":14356,"end":14358,"text":"給你們一點壓力去理解釐清"},{"start":14358,"end":14360,"text":"這個事情但真的凍結的金額"},{"start":14360,"end":14362,"text":"我覺得大家要商量"},{"start":14362.16,"end":14364.16,"text":"否則讓整個案子因此而"},{"start":14364.88,"end":14366.88,"text":"沒有辦法進行這應該也不是主席的原意啦"},{"start":14369.74,"end":14371.74,"text":"31億凍結1億"},{"start":14371.74,"end":14373.74,"text":"不會結束啦"},{"start":14373.74,"end":14375.74,"text":"那我想"},{"start":14375.74,"end":14377.74,"text":"你們還是可以解凍"},{"start":14379.76,"end":14381.76,"text":"這是200多萬的採購案"},{"start":14381.76,"end":14383.76,"text":"對對對200多萬的採購案"},{"start":14383.76,"end":14385.76,"text":"有任何外溢嘛所以我就"},{"start":14385.76,"end":14387.76,"text":"提高了原則"},{"start":14387.76,"end":14389.76,"text":"200多萬的案子要動到1億"},{"start":14389.76,"end":14391.76,"text":"謝謝主席啊"},{"start":14391.76,"end":14393.76,"text":"其實我剛才聽文化部的解釋"},{"start":14393.76,"end":14395.76,"text":"他們因為"},{"start":14395.76,"end":14397.76,"text":"這個案子"},{"start":14397.76,"end":14399.76,"text":"是國科會那邊"},{"start":14399.76,"end":14401.76,"text":"說發出下來的案子"},{"start":14401.76,"end":14403.76,"text":"他們115年的預算是不能"},{"start":14403.76,"end":14405.76,"text":"買設備的所以他們用"},{"start":14405.76,"end":14407.76,"text":"114年的結餘款"},{"start":14407.76,"end":14409.76,"text":"先去發包買了這個設備"},{"start":14409.76,"end":14411.76,"text":"那主席您"},{"start":14411.76,"end":14413.76,"text":"這邊要動的是他115年的"},{"start":14413.76,"end":14415.76,"text":"預算在執行的執行"},{"start":14415.76,"end":14417.76,"text":"計畫執行的費用但他設備"},{"start":14417.76,"end":14419.76,"text":"已經採購了設備已經發包了"},{"start":14419.76,"end":14421.76,"text":"那你現在動了這個費用"},{"start":14421.76,"end":14423.76,"text":"跟他採購設備那是兩件事情"},{"start":14423.76,"end":14425.76,"text":"你說你用立法委員"},{"start":14425.76,"end":14427.76,"text":"最高的職權來幫"},{"start":14427.76,"end":14429.76,"text":"他就是去擋這件事情"},{"start":14429.76,"end":14431.76,"text":"原則來"},{"start":14431.76,"end":14433.76,"text":"來幫他擋這件事情沒有辦法擋"},{"start":14433.76,"end":14435.76,"text":"因為這是兩件事情您動的是"},{"start":14435.76,"end":14437.76,"text":"115年的執行的"},{"start":14437.76,"end":14439.76,"text":"預算但是"},{"start":14439.76,"end":14441.76,"text":"他這個採購的是用"},{"start":14441.76,"end":14443.76,"text":"114年的結餘款去"},{"start":14443.76,"end":14445.76,"text":"採購的設備所以也沒辦法"},{"start":14445.76,"end":14447.76,"text":"去阻擋他這是兩件事情"},{"start":14447.76,"end":14449.76,"text":"所以我會希望說主席"},{"start":14449.76,"end":14451.76,"text":"您看在說他本身"},{"start":14451.76,"end":14453.76,"text":"他當然他在這個處理的過程裡面"},{"start":14453.76,"end":14455.76,"text":"他先用114年的結餘款"},{"start":14455.76,"end":14457.76,"text":"去買了115年"},{"start":14457.76,"end":14459.76,"text":"要用的設備當然這是不是"},{"start":14459.76,"end":14461.76,"text":"他們本身在這個處理的過程沒有很"},{"start":14461.76,"end":14463.76,"text":"細緻但是他既然設備"},{"start":14463.76,"end":14465.76,"text":"已經買了那115年要執行"},{"start":14465.76,"end":14467.76,"text":"設備已經買了你又"},{"start":14467.76,"end":14469.76,"text":"把它執行的預算凍結了"},{"start":14469.76,"end":14471.76,"text":"那買了這個設備等於就是放著"},{"start":14471.76,"end":14473.76,"text":"但是沒有辦法阻止他已經發生了"},{"start":14473.76,"end":14475.76,"text":"是已經這個已經得標"},{"start":14475.76,"end":14477.76,"text":"已經採購到的這個設備"},{"start":14477.76,"end":14479.76,"text":"所以我想這個主席您在"},{"start":14479.76,"end":14481.76,"text":"這個山洞的這個部分"},{"start":14481.76,"end":14483.76,"text":"是不是可以再斟酌一下"},{"start":14483.76,"end":14485.76,"text":"我先問文化部文化部確定是用"},{"start":14485.76,"end":14487.76,"text":"114年的結餘款"},{"start":14487.76,"end":14489.76,"text":"的設備有"},{"start":14489.76,"end":14491.76,"text":"剩餘的部分來處理的嗎"},{"start":14491.76,"end":14493.76,"text":"因為我們本來就有編一個資訊設備"},{"start":14493.76,"end":14495.76,"text":"那就對了"},{"start":14495.76,"end":14497.76,"text":"文化部就多編難怪會有結餘"},{"start":14498.66,"end":14500.66,"text":"沒有委員主要是因為我們"},{"start":14500.66,"end":14502.66,"text":"之前都說錢不夠之前都跟我們講說"},{"start":14502.66,"end":14504.66,"text":"不能統三統三"},{"start":14504.66,"end":14506.66,"text":"會讓這個文化部被癱瘓"},{"start":14506.66,"end":14508.66,"text":"現在就證明那個有"},{"start":14508.66,"end":14510.66,"text":"結餘款任何工程都可能有"},{"start":14510.66,"end":14512.66,"text":"結餘款所以確定"},{"start":14512.66,"end":14514.66,"text":"是用結餘款要被善用來購買"},{"start":14514.66,"end":14516.66,"text":"但是我還是要講的是"},{"start":14516.66,"end":14518.66,"text":"你們當時怎麼會用"},{"start":14518.66,"end":14520.66,"text":"物質標案來說服"},{"start":14520.66,"end":14522.66,"text":"萬美齡我看不懂你過了"},{"start":14522.66,"end":14524.66,"text":"萬美齡那一關過不了我這一關"},{"start":14524.66,"end":14526.66,"text":"那萬美齡他就跟我講我跟你講"},{"start":14526.66,"end":14528.66,"text":"這邊都有萬美齡"},{"start":14528.66,"end":14530.66,"text":"委員寫給我他認為"},{"start":14530.66,"end":14532.66,"text":"這個標案有很大的弊案的存在"},{"start":14533.98,"end":14535.98,"text":"所以委員這邊都還是"},{"start":14535.98,"end":14537.98,"text":"有所疑慮你沒辦法說服我"},{"start":14537.98,"end":14539.98,"text":"再"},{"start":14540.02,"end":14542.02,"text":"這樣子的一個原則之下"},{"start":14542.02,"end":14544.02,"text":"我們去提出了凍結"},{"start":14544.02,"end":14546.02,"text":"凍結不是不讓你用"},{"start":14546.02,"end":14548.02,"text":"不是會有什麼樣的一個狀況"},{"start":14548.02,"end":14550.02,"text":"你們就會被癱瘓 而是你要"},{"start":14550.02,"end":14552.02,"text":"說服我我就讓你可以動用啊"},{"start":14555.9,"end":14557.9,"text":"沒關係啊你們"},{"start":14557.9,"end":14559.9,"text":"你們的理解跟我的理解方式不一樣"},{"start":14559.9,"end":14561.9,"text":"我只能尊重啦但是"},{"start":14561.9,"end":14563.9,"text":"你不可以說我都是錯的"},{"start":14563.9,"end":14565.9,"text":"那問題我現在已經抓到"},{"start":14565.9,"end":14567.9,"text":"因為剛剛有委員也證實了"},{"start":14567.9,"end":14569.9,"text":"我們現在是說這間公司沒有什麼"},{"start":14569.9,"end":14571.9,"text":"問題是那個人有什麼問題是嗎"},{"start":14572.66,"end":14574.66,"text":"他掛名另外一家的董事"},{"start":14576.73,"end":14578.73,"text":"所以就證明他有連帶關係"},{"start":14578.73,"end":14580.73,"text":"有裙帶關係嘛"},{"start":14580.73,"end":14582.73,"text":"所以我在講說"},{"start":14582.73,"end":14584.73,"text":"我的疑慮不是沒來由"},{"start":14584.73,"end":14586.73,"text":"今天我如果是"},{"start":14588.42,"end":14590.42,"text":"完全他都清清白白我給他說"},{"start":14590.42,"end":14592.42,"text":"這個有可能有問題那可能我有"},{"start":14592.42,"end":14594.42,"text":"失願沒有新聞看到他"},{"start":14594.42,"end":14596.42,"text":"就是有裙帶關係啊他會不會"},{"start":14596.42,"end":14598.42,"text":"透過B公司人頭"},{"start":14598.42,"end":14600.42,"text":"來處理這件事我會擔憂啊"},{"start":14600.42,"end":14602.42,"text":"所以今天"},{"start":14602.42,"end":14604.42,"text":"一方面14年有捷運"},{"start":14604.42,"end":14606.42,"text":"一方面你跟委員說物質"},{"start":14606.42,"end":14608.42,"text":"標案"},{"start":14607.78,"end":14609.78,"text":"新興計畫你用別的方式"},{"start":14609.78,"end":14611.78,"text":"來想辦法處理了"},{"start":14611.78,"end":14613.78,"text":"最後你又跟我講阿這個"},{"start":14613.78,"end":14615.78,"text":"他只是那個人有問題這間公司沒問題"},{"start":14615.78,"end":14617.78,"text":"我沒辦法接受"},{"start":14617.78,"end":14619.78,"text":"對不起所以今天我們是不是"},{"start":14619.78,"end":14621.78,"text":"就直接講這個數字"},{"start":14624.13,"end":14626.13,"text":"你們就直接講"},{"start":14626.13,"end":14628.13,"text":"跟委員報告一下"},{"start":14628.13,"end":14630.13,"text":"設備採購案是200多萬"},{"start":14630.13,"end":14632.13,"text":"那是不是我們今年預算是"},{"start":14632.13,"end":14634.13,"text":"完全不能做採購"},{"start":14634.13,"end":14636.13,"text":"那是不是我也必須要承認說"},{"start":14636.13,"end":14638.13,"text":"我們同仁用物質這是一個非常不恰當的"},{"start":14638.13,"end":14640.13,"text":"我們不是物質他們這樣的寫法"},{"start":14640.13,"end":14642.13,"text":"我說實在我們是真的"},{"start":14642.13,"end":14644.13,"text":"跟這樣的委員說明是不當"},{"start":14644.13,"end":14646.13,"text":"那所以是不是可以委員同意我們"},{"start":14646.13,"end":14648.13,"text":"可以凍結一定的"},{"start":14648.13,"end":14650.13,"text":"就是一個金額比如說100萬或什麼"},{"start":14650.13,"end":14652.13,"text":"讓我們來寫一個檢討報跟各委員"},{"start":14652.13,"end":14654.13,"text":"來說明我們整個流程跟改善"},{"start":14654.13,"end":14656.13,"text":"那115的預算性我們是絕對還沒有動"},{"start":14656.13,"end":14658.13,"text":"這點請委員放心我們在沒有通過之前"},{"start":14658.13,"end":14660.13,"text":"我們是不會動的"},{"start":14660.13,"end":14662.13,"text":"所以也跟委員報告是的確有用"},{"start":14662.13,"end":14664.13,"text":"物質標案的說法來說服委員"},{"start":14664.13,"end":14666.13,"text":"這不是我在抹黑"},{"start":14666.13,"end":14668.13,"text":"那你現在改口了嘛"},{"start":14668.13,"end":14670.13,"text":"那我在審理預算的時候你才改口"},{"start":14670.13,"end":14672.13,"text":"我要怎麼跟國人交代"},{"start":14673.29,"end":14675.29,"text":"我不能因為你改口了我現在說好那我放行啊"},{"start":14676.49,"end":14678.49,"text":"就有這個過程啊"},{"start":14679.72,"end":14681.72,"text":"所以"},{"start":14680.81,"end":14682.81,"text":"我認為這事情很多貓膩"},{"start":14684.63,"end":14686.63,"text":"好那我們來處理預算"},{"start":14688.95,"end":14690.95,"text":"好 減劣5000萬 凍結5%"},{"start":14690.95,"end":14692.95,"text":"有沒有委員會見"},{"start":14693.39,"end":14695.39,"text":"有意見"},{"start":14695.39,"end":14697.39,"text":"好 委員請說"},{"start":14697.69,"end":14699.69,"text":"這個案子的本體"},{"start":14701.04,"end":14707.04,"text":"萬美林委員跟召委質疑的這個採購案的本體是200多萬的預算"},{"start":14707.85,"end":14709.85,"text":"那要去檢視這200多萬的"},{"start":14709.85,"end":14711.85,"text":"採購預算的執行"},{"start":14711.85,"end":14713.85,"text":"有沒有召委所擔心的"},{"start":14713.85,"end":14715.85,"text":"就目前聽起來"},{"start":14715.85,"end":14717.85,"text":"我認為既然他沒有排除"},{"start":14717.85,"end":14719.85,"text":"在公權會的黑名單"},{"start":14719.85,"end":14721.85,"text":"代表他這個公司本身"},{"start":14721.85,"end":14723.85,"text":"是沒有問題的"},{"start":14723.85,"end":14725.85,"text":"因為是有問題的是另外一個公司"},{"start":14725.85,"end":14727.85,"text":"這個要釐清"},{"start":14727.85,"end":14729.85,"text":"那召委擔心說另外一個公司會不會影響這個公司"},{"start":14729.85,"end":14731.85,"text":"基本上我是覺得"},{"start":14731.85,"end":14733.85,"text":"可能也有點過濾了"},{"start":14733.85,"end":14735.85,"text":"但是回到這個"},{"start":14735.85,"end":14737.85,"text":"這個案子本身是200多萬"},{"start":14737.85,"end":14739.85,"text":"啊那個召委"},{"start":14739.85,"end":14741.85,"text":"您要凍3減5000萬"},{"start":14744.17,"end":14746.17,"text":"這個案子的本體的採購是200多萬"},{"start":14746.17,"end":14748.17,"text":"您要"},{"start":14748.17,"end":14750.17,"text":"這樣是"},{"start":14750.48,"end":14752.48,"text":"幾倍25倍"},{"start":14753.21,"end":14755.21,"text":"這個會影響到其他的部分"},{"start":14755.21,"end":14757.21,"text":"就這個採購案來處理"},{"start":14757.21,"end":14759.21,"text":"剛剛講200多萬文化部"},{"start":14759.21,"end":14761.21,"text":"接受是說那凍結"},{"start":14761.21,"end":14763.21,"text":"100萬已經1分之1了"},{"start":14763.21,"end":14765.21,"text":"要不凍結150萬"},{"start":14766.51,"end":14768.51,"text":"讓他就這個採購案的部分"},{"start":14768.51,"end":14770.51,"text":"提出檢視報告給召委"},{"start":14770.51,"end":14772.51,"text":"給關心的委員這樣比較"},{"start":14772.51,"end":14774.51,"text":"符合比例原則啦"},{"start":14774.51,"end":14776.51,"text":"270萬的採購"},{"start":14777.68,"end":14779.68,"text":"你凍他150我覺得已經是非常"},{"start":14779.68,"end":14781.68,"text":"非常嚴厲的給他們壓力了"},{"start":14781.68,"end":14783.68,"text":"那要外溢到其他的"},{"start":14785.14,"end":14787.14,"text":"一大包的預算的其他部分"},{"start":14787.14,"end":14789.14,"text":"我是覺得請主席是不是能夠"},{"start":14789.14,"end":14791.14,"text":"再三思"},{"start":14791.14,"end":14795.14,"text":"再三思這真的是誠心的請求"},{"start":14795.14,"end":14797.14,"text":"再三思一下"},{"start":14797.19,"end":14799.19,"text":"我想跟委員特別報告"},{"start":14799.19,"end":14801.19,"text":"31億啦他是一筆很大的費用"},{"start":14801.19,"end":14803.19,"text":"所以"},{"start":14803.19,"end":14805.19,"text":"你們不能直接講說"},{"start":14805.19,"end":14807.19,"text":"200萬有問題就處理200萬"},{"start":14807.19,"end":14809.19,"text":"其他的也要一併檢視"},{"start":14809.19,"end":14811.19,"text":"我怎麼知道其他的有沒有我沒發現的弊案"},{"start":14811.19,"end":14813.19,"text":"再來"},{"start":14813.19,"end":14815.19,"text":"我們常常在講喔我就拿營養午餐來說"},{"start":14815.19,"end":14817.19,"text":"有人拿"},{"start":14817.19,"end":14819.19,"text":"比如說進口雞腿給我們的孩子"},{"start":14819.19,"end":14821.19,"text":"我們的孩子只能夠吃本土的"},{"start":14821.19,"end":14823.19,"text":"只能夠吃營養的"},{"start":14823.19,"end":14825.19,"text":"抓到了"},{"start":14824.61,"end":14826.61,"text":"我們就害怕這些人藉和上市"},{"start":14826.61,"end":14828.61,"text":"我們就害怕這些人"},{"start":14828.61,"end":14830.61,"text":"透過B公司又來處理營養午餐"},{"start":14830.61,"end":14832.61,"text":"其實都一樣的概念"},{"start":14832.61,"end":14834.61,"text":"你現在在A公司有問題"},{"start":14834.61,"end":14836.61,"text":"你告訴我你用B公司來標"},{"start":14836.61,"end":14838.61,"text":"標到了B公司沒問題"},{"start":14838.61,"end":14840.61,"text":"說不過去"},{"start":14840.61,"end":14842.61,"text":"委員我知道你"},{"start":14842.61,"end":14844.61,"text":"很辛苦你一直在講"},{"start":14844.61,"end":14846.61,"text":"你們想要富行的話"},{"start":14846.61,"end":14848.61,"text":"你這邊刪除的本體是整個"},{"start":14848.61,"end":14850.61,"text":"文化部的業務費"},{"start":14850.67,"end":14852.67,"text":"因為一個個案"},{"start":14852.67,"end":14854.67,"text":"然後您刪減的標的"},{"start":14854.67,"end":14856.67,"text":"是整個文化部的業務費"},{"start":14856.67,"end":14858.67,"text":"您一直講31億"},{"start":14858.67,"end":14860.67,"text":"大家可能以為說這個案子"},{"start":14860.67,"end":14862.67,"text":"本身這個計畫或是這個建設"},{"start":14862.67,"end":14864.67,"text":"本身是30億沒有啊"},{"start":14864.67,"end":14866.67,"text":"我一再的強調是業務費整體有31億"},{"start":14866.67,"end":14868.67,"text":"那我看到了這一件事情"},{"start":14868.67,"end":14870.67,"text":"太誇張"},{"start":14870.67,"end":14872.67,"text":"然後還竟然敢跟委員講說"},{"start":14872.67,"end":14874.67,"text":"標案是物質啊"},{"start":14874.67,"end":14876.67,"text":"怎麼可能標案物質呢"},{"start":14876.67,"end":14878.67,"text":"經過這麼多的"},{"start":14878.67,"end":14880.67,"text":"當然說法不當"},{"start":14880.67,"end":14882.67,"text":"剛剛已經有承認說"},{"start":14882.67,"end":14884.67,"text":"他們的確有這樣的說法"},{"start":14884.67,"end":14886.67,"text":"那我認為對委員要有一個交代"},{"start":14886.67,"end":14888.67,"text":"所以我們在本於"},{"start":14888.67,"end":14890.67,"text":"監督的過程"},{"start":14890.67,"end":14892.67,"text":"應該要好好來審視"},{"start":14892.67,"end":14894.67,"text":"你今天跟我談不要簡略"},{"start":14894.67,"end":14896.67,"text":"那我問你凍結呢"},{"start":14895.52,"end":14897.52,"text":"凍結這個案子270萬"},{"start":14897.52,"end":14899.52,"text":"你又不准我簡略"},{"start":14899.52,"end":14901.52,"text":"又不准我凍結"},{"start":14901.52,"end":14903.52,"text":"你要我凍結150"},{"start":14903.52,"end":14905.52,"text":"因為這個案子的本體是270萬"},{"start":14905.52,"end":14907.52,"text":"我0.1%"},{"start":14907.52,"end":14909.52,"text":"這個案子的本體是270萬"},{"start":14909.52,"end":14911.52,"text":"所以凍結150萬"},{"start":14911.52,"end":14913.52,"text":"已經是1%以上了"},{"start":14913.52,"end":14915.52,"text":"張偉這個案子的本體"},{"start":14915.52,"end":14917.52,"text":"是270萬的採購案"},{"start":14919.41,"end":14921.41,"text":"那你要把他用整個"},{"start":14921.41,"end":14923.41,"text":"業務費來動"},{"start":14924.44,"end":14926.44,"text":"標的上我覺得是"},{"start":14926.44,"end":14928.44,"text":"比例原則也不正確"},{"start":14928.44,"end":14930.44,"text":"我解釋一下基本上他不是一個"},{"start":14930.44,"end":14932.44,"text":"弊案了就他是標的過程中"},{"start":14932.44,"end":14934.44,"text":"他不是一個是大家"},{"start":14934.44,"end":14936.44,"text":"貪污什麼什麼弊案他不是"},{"start":14936.44,"end":14938.44,"text":"然後其實我們文化部"},{"start":14938.44,"end":14940.44,"text":"要追上政府的那個AI"},{"start":14940.44,"end":14942.44,"text":"在我們原來部門裡面"},{"start":14942.44,"end":14944.44,"text":"只有資訊處可以"},{"start":14944.44,"end":14946.44,"text":"所以基本上我們"},{"start":14946.44,"end":14948.44,"text":"精心計畫不能動用其實我們心裡"},{"start":14948.44,"end":14950.44,"text":"是想趕快啟動AI"},{"start":14950.44,"end":14952.44,"text":"這方面的一些設備"},{"start":14952.44,"end":14954.44,"text":"還有語料庫還有"},{"start":14954.44,"end":14956.44,"text":"那個產業所以其實"},{"start":14956.44,"end":14958.44,"text":"我們同仁非常急的"},{"start":14958.44,"end":14960.44,"text":"趕快先買設備"},{"start":14960.44,"end":14962.44,"text":"我知道 基本上他不是"},{"start":14962.44,"end":14964.44,"text":"精心計畫不能動用你拿別的錢來用"},{"start":14964.44,"end":14966.44,"text":"精心計畫我不能動的原因是因為"},{"start":14966.44,"end":14968.44,"text":"預算拖到現在沒有過"},{"start":14968.44,"end":14970.44,"text":"我們心裡蠻急的所以"},{"start":14970.44,"end":14972.44,"text":"你們有方法可以去發保"},{"start":14972.44,"end":14974.44,"text":"其實我們文化部很想追上AI的"},{"start":14974.44,"end":14976.44,"text":"腳步"},{"start":14976.44,"end":14978.44,"text":"請委員同情我們就是"},{"start":14978.44,"end":14980.44,"text":"文化部本來沒有AI這樣一個部門"},{"start":14980.44,"end":14982.44,"text":"但是為了趕上政府AI這個"},{"start":14982.44,"end":14984.44,"text":"我們只能從國科會那邊"},{"start":14984.44,"end":14986.44,"text":"取得一些科技計畫"},{"start":14986.44,"end":14988.44,"text":"然後也只有資訊部"},{"start":14988.44,"end":14990.44,"text":"可以做這個事我們就先採購"},{"start":14990.44,"end":14992.44,"text":"設備然後希望"},{"start":14992.44,"end":14994.44,"text":"速度快一點沒有他不是"},{"start":14994.44,"end":14996.44,"text":"涉及到弊案這一點請大家"},{"start":14996.44,"end":14998.44,"text":"原諒我們沒有弊案"},{"start":14998.44,"end":15000.44,"text":"只是剛才講到物質"},{"start":15000.44,"end":15002.44,"text":"事實上我們資訊處剛剛講到物質"},{"start":15002.44,"end":15004.44,"text":"對阿就是說你們一定要找到"},{"start":15004.44,"end":15006.44,"text":"一個問題他不是"},{"start":15006.44,"end":15008.44,"text":"標案的人是不是有違標的狀況"},{"start":15008.44,"end":15010.44,"text":"剛剛有講到他其中有一個"},{"start":15010.44,"end":15012.44,"text":"對不對"},{"start":15012.6,"end":15014.6,"text":"那家公司本身沒有"},{"start":15014.6,"end":15016.6,"text":"會不會有藉口上市會不會有A公司"},{"start":15016.6,"end":15018.6,"text":"有問題哪有B公司嗎"},{"start":15018.6,"end":15020.6,"text":"你要幫他背書就對了"},{"start":15020.6,"end":15022.6,"text":"請我不要凍結"},{"start":15022.6,"end":15024.6,"text":"我不是要幫他背書公務員"},{"start":15024.6,"end":15026.6,"text":"做事情完全按照規定譬如說"},{"start":15026.6,"end":15028.6,"text":"他來標的人採最低標"},{"start":15028.6,"end":15030.6,"text":"然後三家都合法這點"},{"start":15030.6,"end":15032.6,"text":"我覺得你應該相信文化部的公務員"},{"start":15032.6,"end":15034.6,"text":"他不會去冒這個險"},{"start":15034.6,"end":15036.6,"text":"他不是一個弊案嘛"},{"start":15036.6,"end":15038.6,"text":"所以我剛剛講說我相信你們"},{"start":15038.6,"end":15040.6,"text":"沒有理由沒有法院去"},{"start":15040.6,"end":15042.6,"text":"拒絕他因為工程會沒有"},{"start":15042.6,"end":15044.6,"text":"告訴你們他有名單嘛"},{"start":15044.6,"end":15046.6,"text":"可是現在我看到了他有藉口上市的"},{"start":15046.6,"end":15048.6,"text":"可能性也已經確定"},{"start":15048.6,"end":15050.6,"text":"標到了那他有"},{"start":15050.6,"end":15052.6,"text":"違標的潛力我要來想"},{"start":15052.6,"end":15054.6,"text":"辦法去透過"},{"start":15054.6,"end":15056.6,"text":"這件事情先暫緩"},{"start":15056.91,"end":15058.91,"text":"那"},{"start":15057.92,"end":15059.92,"text":"你要說服我為什麼我不要做這個動作"},{"start":15059.92,"end":15061.92,"text":"我要說服你就是因為"},{"start":15061.92,"end":15063.92,"text":"我們的業務費有31億"},{"start":15063.92,"end":15065.92,"text":"遍佈在每個項目裡面"},{"start":15065.92,"end":15067.92,"text":"然後我們發生這件事情也許我們"},{"start":15067.92,"end":15069.92,"text":"有錯誤但是"},{"start":15069.92,"end":15071.92,"text":"我覺得應該值得原諒的原因是"},{"start":15071.92,"end":15073.92,"text":"同仁沒有在這裡面犯下"},{"start":15073.92,"end":15075.92,"text":"任何嚴重的說貪瀆"},{"start":15075.92,"end":15077.92,"text":"什麼什麼他不是這麼惡劣"},{"start":15077.92,"end":15079.92,"text":"然後我再講我們為了要"},{"start":15079.92,"end":15081.92,"text":"追上AI的這個計畫"},{"start":15081.92,"end":15083.92,"text":"新興計畫沒辦法動"},{"start":15083.92,"end":15085.92,"text":"已經過了半年了我們就用"},{"start":15085.92,"end":15087.92,"text":"資訊處來先啟動"},{"start":15087.92,"end":15089.92,"text":"這個從頭到尾是一個"},{"start":15089.92,"end":15091.92,"text":"我們努力工作不要"},{"start":15091.92,"end":15093.92,"text":"卡在這個有一點這種"},{"start":15093.92,"end":15095.92,"text":"跟他講到說標案"},{"start":15095.92,"end":15097.92,"text":"如果從公務員角度看他也是"},{"start":15097.92,"end":15099.92,"text":"按照規定其實我們公務員"},{"start":15099.92,"end":15101.92,"text":"本身沒有一個想要去違法"},{"start":15101.92,"end":15103.92,"text":"好部長我一再強調"},{"start":15103.92,"end":15105.92,"text":"我沒有說公務人員"},{"start":15105.92,"end":15107.92,"text":"有做違法亂計的"},{"start":15107.92,"end":15109.92,"text":"事情而是我看到了工程"},{"start":15109.92,"end":15111.92,"text":"會沒有把他變成黑名單"},{"start":15111.92,"end":15113.92,"text":"讓你們不小心標"},{"start":15113.92,"end":15115.92,"text":"這個人有問題"},{"start":15115.92,"end":15117.92,"text":"所以我先幫你"},{"start":15117.92,"end":15119.92,"text":"所謂的暫緩凍結"},{"start":15119.92,"end":15121.92,"text":"都是預防後面"},{"start":15121.92,"end":15123.92,"text":"我們是不是提出計畫以後"},{"start":15123.92,"end":15125.92,"text":"我來瞭解他到底有多嚴重"},{"start":15125.92,"end":15127.92,"text":"我們細不探討"},{"start":15129.04,"end":15131.04,"text":"所以你一開始就不應該用物質的方式"},{"start":15131.04,"end":15133.04,"text":"來說服委員不要做這件事情"},{"start":15133.04,"end":15135.04,"text":"物質標案我覺得這件事情"},{"start":15135.04,"end":15137.04,"text":"說法真的太扯了"},{"start":15137.04,"end":15139.04,"text":"好那再來現階段"},{"start":15139.95,"end":15141.95,"text":"我還是要再說"},{"start":15141.95,"end":15143.95,"text":"因為你們擔憂沒有AI"},{"start":15143.95,"end":15145.95,"text":"所以要先採購"},{"start":15145.95,"end":15147.95,"text":"所以你們還是有辦法可以處理"},{"start":15147.95,"end":15149.95,"text":"政府不是完全沒辦法"},{"start":15149.95,"end":15151.95,"text":"有所謂的疑慮"},{"start":15151.95,"end":15153.95,"text":"你們剛剛也證實了"},{"start":15154.45,"end":15156.45,"text":"所以現在我問你"},{"start":15156.45,"end":15158.45,"text":"你覺得要多少"},{"start":15159.07,"end":15161.07,"text":"你覺得這家公司沒問題"},{"start":15161.07,"end":15163.07,"text":"你幫他講話"},{"start":15163.07,"end":15165.07,"text":"那你覺得要多少"},{"start":15172.83,"end":15174.83,"text":"其實我剛才"},{"start":15174.83,"end":15176.83,"text":"所有的解釋都不是要幫那家公司解釋"},{"start":15176.83,"end":15178.83,"text":"我只是要解釋"},{"start":15178.83,"end":15180.83,"text":"我們要追上AI之後"},{"start":15180.83,"end":15182.83,"text":"做了這個標案"},{"start":15182.83,"end":15184.83,"text":"我覺得他不是一個弊案"},{"start":15184.83,"end":15186.83,"text":"不要把他升高到這麼高的一個弊案"},{"start":15186.83,"end":15188.83,"text":"要懲罰我們說"},{"start":15188.83,"end":15190.83,"text":"要減電"},{"start":15190.83,"end":15192.83,"text":"那我可不可以凍結700萬"},{"start":15192.83,"end":15194.83,"text":"就這麼接受"},{"start":15195.76,"end":15197.76,"text":"就凍一半150萬"},{"start":15197.76,"end":15199.76,"text":"已經是很大的警示了"},{"start":15199.76,"end":15201.76,"text":"就算我們剛才那個物質"},{"start":15201.76,"end":15203.76,"text":"有錯誤的話"},{"start":15203.76,"end":15205.76,"text":"我們還是可以寫一個報告"},{"start":15205.76,"end":15207.76,"text":"仔細的解釋這個事情好嗎"},{"start":15207.89,"end":15209.89,"text":"好 尊重部長的建議"},{"start":15214.28,"end":15216.28,"text":"大概就是12到12"},{"start":15217.42,"end":15219.42,"text":"你們有提案嗎"},{"start":15219.93,"end":15221.93,"text":"你是16"},{"start":15221.93,"end":15223.93,"text":"那主席我可以先建議一下"},{"start":15223.93,"end":15225.93,"text":"是不是因為現在"},{"start":15225.93,"end":15227.93,"text":"討論了這麼久的時間"},{"start":15227.93,"end":15229.93,"text":"就是說"},{"start":15229.93,"end":15231.93,"text":"我們是不是就處理到"},{"start":15231.93,"end":15233.93,"text":"這一幕的業務費"},{"start":15233.93,"end":15235.93,"text":"持續討論"},{"start":15235.93,"end":15237.93,"text":"讓大家可以一個早上"},{"start":15237.93,"end":15239.93,"text":"等一下是不是可以休息一下"},{"start":15239.93,"end":15241.93,"text":"吃個便當"},{"start":15241.93,"end":15243.93,"text":"看是您要宣告兩點"},{"start":15243.93,"end":15245.93,"text":"還是幾點回來再開"},{"start":15245.93,"end":15247.93,"text":"讓大家時間上可以安排"},{"start":15247.93,"end":15249.93,"text":"我們可以先處理到這個業務費"},{"start":15249.93,"end":15251.93,"text":"因為看來可能還要釐清很久"},{"start":15251.93,"end":15253.93,"text":"那如果沒有這一幕提案的委員"},{"start":15253.93,"end":15255.93,"text":"我們可以先"},{"start":15256.28,"end":15258.28,"text":"先離開"},{"start":15258.28,"end":15260.28,"text":"到旁邊吃便當"},{"start":15260.28,"end":15262.28,"text":"我的意思是說"},{"start":15262.28,"end":15264.28,"text":"不是不是 主席您是會在這一幕"},{"start":15264.28,"end":15266.28,"text":"處理完先休息午餐"},{"start":15266.28,"end":15268.28,"text":"我們要知道您的議程安排"},{"start":15268.28,"end":15270.28,"text":"然後我們下午要幾點回就定位"},{"start":15270.28,"end":15272.28,"text":"您讓我們可以"},{"start":15272.28,"end":15274.28,"text":"好 那下午我們幾點"},{"start":15276.18,"end":15278.18,"text":"您先宣告一下大家時間可以配合"},{"start":15278.18,"end":15280.18,"text":"好 我們到12到16案"},{"start":15280.18,"end":15282.18,"text":"好 那下午我們幾點"},{"start":15282.18,"end":15284.18,"text":"好 那我們幾點回來 您要不要也宣告一下"},{"start":15287.2,"end":15289.2,"text":"大家方便安排"},{"start":15289.2,"end":15291.2,"text":"等一下 因為我還不確定我會討論到幾點"},{"start":15291.2,"end":15293.2,"text":"我待會再宣告好不好 好 那現在就是到這一幕"},{"start":15295.21,"end":15297.21,"text":"好 羅政委員"},{"start":15325.21,"end":15327.21,"text":"那我提案簡略該項預算500萬"},{"start":15327.21,"end":15329.21,"text":"那16案我一併說好了"},{"start":15329.21,"end":15331.21,"text":"是國外旅費的部分"},{"start":15331.21,"end":15333.21,"text":"那一樣"},{"start":15333.21,"end":15335.21,"text":"115年度文化部"},{"start":15335.21,"end":15337.21,"text":"國外旅費預算是"},{"start":15337.21,"end":15339.21,"text":"1503萬3000元"},{"start":15339.21,"end":15341.21,"text":"交114年度的519萬8000元"},{"start":15341.21,"end":15343.21,"text":"交115年度的519萬8000元"},{"start":15343.21,"end":15345.21,"text":"交115年度的519萬8000元"},{"start":15345.21,"end":15347.21,"text":"交115年度的519萬8000元"},{"start":15347.21,"end":15349.21,"text":"交115年度的519萬8000元"},{"start":15349.21,"end":15351.21,"text":"交115年度的519萬8000元"},{"start":15351.21,"end":15353.21,"text":"交115年度的519萬8000元"},{"start":15353.21,"end":15355.21,"text":"那合計數應該要是"},{"start":15355.21,"end":15357.21,"text":"相連金額"},{"start":15357.21,"end":15359.269999999999,"text":"那"},{"start":15359.269999999999,"end":15361.21,"text":"那"},{"start":15361.21,"end":15363.21,"text":"那"},{"start":15363.21,"end":15365.23,"text":"是"},{"start":15365.23,"end":15367.21,"text":"合計數"},{"start":15367.21,"end":15368.189999999999,"text":"就是"},{"start":15368.189999999999,"end":15368.949999999999,"text":"那"},{"start":15368.949999999999,"end":15371.21,"text":"合計數"},{"start":15371.21,"end":15373.21,"text":"這是"},{"start":15373.21,"end":15375.21,"text":"合計數"},{"start":15375.21,"end":15377.21,"text":"合計數"},{"start":15377.21,"end":15379.21,"text":"第四"},{"start":15379.21,"end":15381.21,"text":"要是"},{"start":15381.21,"end":15382.49,"text":"訓練費用合計數"},{"start":15382.75,"end":15386.33,"text":"已不超過該二科目114年度預算"},{"start":15386.589999999998,"end":15388.369999999999,"text":"按合計數為原則 那"},{"start":15388.63,"end":15391.71,"text":"也提案簡列1000萬 那當然文化部有說明說"},{"start":15391.949999999999,"end":15395.289999999999,"text":"115年預算加114年增加"},{"start":15395.55,"end":15399.63,"text":"983萬5000是因為114年國外"},{"start":15399.89,"end":15403.99,"text":"的旅費遭通山六成 但是我一樣還是覺得"},{"start":15404.25,"end":15406.029999999999,"text":"這個理由並不夠充分"},{"start":15406.289999999999,"end":15406.81,"text":"因為"},{"start":15407.07,"end":15407.83,"text":"基本上"},{"start":15408.349999999999,"end":15409.369999999999,"text":"那在"},{"start":15409.570000000002,"end":15414.95,"text":"過去我們根據預算尊節的原則 為納稅人來精打細算"},{"start":15415.210000000001,"end":15417.77,"text":"那在原來預算規模之下 事實上"},{"start":15418.03,"end":15422.390000000001,"text":"我們本來就是國內國外旅費都盡量能以尊節為主嘛 那既然"},{"start":15422.630000000001,"end":15423.67,"text":"去年"},{"start":15423.910000000002,"end":15426.470000000001,"text":"有這個基準的話 我們應該以這個基準"},{"start":15426.730000000001,"end":15430.050000000001,"text":"來評量文化部接下來國內外旅費的一個基準"},{"start":15430.310000000001,"end":15433.130000000001,"text":"所以這是我的兩個簡列案 以上"},{"start":15435.95,"end":15436.470000000001,"text":"好"},{"start":15437.050000000001,"end":15441.130000000001,"text":"那因為我自己15案也有簽"},{"start":15441.650000000001,"end":15443.43,"text":"大陸地區的旅費"},{"start":15444.32,"end":15446.32,"text":"我是改組決議啦 但還是"},{"start":15446.92,"end":15448.92,"text":"你們現在還是會去中國大陸"},{"start":15459.25,"end":15462.59,"text":"港澳的旅遊景色還是調成成色等級啦"},{"start":15463.4,"end":15464.94,"text":"那我認為"},{"start":15465.97,"end":15466.73,"text":"既然"},{"start":15467.310000000001,"end":15471.910000000002,"text":"政府的政令就是現在說成色等級盡量避免不要前往"},{"start":15472.150000000001,"end":15473.69,"text":"但是你們還是"},{"start":15473.95,"end":15475.730000000001,"text":"一直持續的想要往那邊走"},{"start":15476.66,"end":15477.7,"text":"這樣是不是跟"},{"start":15477.94,"end":15478.98,"text":"我們賴政府"},{"start":15479.5,"end":15481.02,"text":"所做的決議有所違背"},{"start":15481.939999999999,"end":15482.439999999999,"text":"我想"},{"start":15482.98,"end":15487.08,"text":"這個他們也一直在講啊 會有非法扣押 留置盤查"},{"start":15487.339999999998,"end":15488.859999999999,"text":"結果你們還是想去"},{"start":15489.119999999999,"end":15491.66,"text":"希望我這個錢不要去處理"},{"start":15491.92,"end":15492.939999999999,"text":"我就覺得很奇怪"},{"start":15493.75,"end":15497.27,"text":"這個你們好像應該要檢討一下 怎麼會跟"},{"start":15497.51,"end":15499.57,"text":"現在陸委會啊 整個"},{"start":15499.83,"end":15502.13,"text":"行政院的態度差這麼多"},{"start":15502.39,"end":15503.67,"text":"再麻煩一下"},{"start":15504.189999999999,"end":15506.99,"text":"因為這個港澳的旅遊景色還是成色等級"},{"start":15507.25,"end":15508.029999999999,"text":"那現在"},{"start":15508.8,"end":15509.9,"text":"有沒有就"},{"start":15511.01,"end":15512.91,"text":"我跟羅志祥委員的回應一下"},{"start":15514.34,"end":15515.880000000001,"text":"就這個14跟16案"},{"start":15516.14,"end":15523.48,"text":"跟委員報告一下 我們的國內旅費呢 事實上因為我們其實主要是讓我們以這個社區營造跟文資的預算來"},{"start":15523.74,"end":15524.24,"text":"的檢驗"},{"start":15524.5,"end":15528.36,"text":"因為我們現在所有的社區跟地方創造 它其實都在分散在各縣市"},{"start":15528.62,"end":15529.4,"text":"所以我們"},{"start":15529.66,"end":15537.26,"text":"基本上會編列比較高的國內旅費 是因為我們要陪同夜市到每個地方 其實希望能夠帶夜市去做實地的訪視跟協助"},{"start":15537.52,"end":15540.36,"text":"夜市就是導師還有一些業者 對"},{"start":15540.82,"end":15549.94,"text":"對 我們希望帶著它到 比如說像我們有青年春落計畫或原住民的春落計畫 那因為我們每一年的補助案件都非常多 我們希望能夠帶著夜市到現場去做一些訪視"},{"start":15550.2,"end":15551.980000000001,"text":"給他們提供一些協助跟輔導"},{"start":15552.24,"end":15555.42,"text":"那所以這部分就會被我們同仁 其實會陪同相關的前往"},{"start":15555.68,"end":15561.78,"text":"所以這塊部分呢 我們才會希望說能夠有足夠的國內旅費 因為包括我們還有離島等等的部分"},{"start":15562.04,"end":15569.7,"text":"那國外旅費的部分呢 主要是因為我們其實有非常多管鎖 我們都希望我們的管鎖呢 它現在是跟國際做國際的聯合策展"},{"start":15570,"end":15579.04,"text":"那比如說昨天像我們史前款 作為一個鳥居籠帳的展 它事實上是跟日本做合作 那我們希望他們可以前期到日本去實際的跟他們做"},{"start":15579.300000000001,"end":15584.36,"text":"比較多好的調研 那回國之後可以一起做國際策展 依然是提升台灣整個的能見度"},{"start":15584.62,"end":15591.320000000002,"text":"所以我們才會在國外旅費跟國內旅費這邊編列相關 就業務推動部分來編列 所以可能看起來我也會覺得"},{"start":15591.58,"end":15598.400000000001,"text":"我們較之前有成長 那主要是因為我們現在相關的業務的推動上面 我們也希望它能更有對國際上面有一些交代 謝謝"},{"start":15599.7,"end":15603.400000000001,"text":"你們會去帶葉斯出國"},{"start":15604.51,"end":15614.210000000001,"text":"這部分是國內的部分 國際的部分是跟國際很多博物館一起做聯合的策展 所以會一年到那邊可能一年是巡回到 再回到台灣來做聯合的策展"},{"start":15614.210000000001,"end":15619.050000000001,"text":"所以出國到底有沒有 有當然有出國的 也有出國的 也有出國的 港澳有沒有"},{"start":15619.17,"end":15628.19,"text":"港澳的部分事實上 我們先編列這個預算 那有時候比如說我們會到國外帶著 會去參加音樂節 如果我們的業者有前往當地去參加音樂節"},{"start":15628.19,"end":15635.470000000001,"text":"我們有時候為了了解他們實際在現場遇到的一些狀況 我們還是會派同仁必要的時候還是會前往去那邊了解狀況"},{"start":15636.59,"end":15638.470000000001,"text":"那謝謝委員的提醒 如果當時他真的"},{"start":15638.470000000001,"end":15644.33,"text":"可是如果委會就說現在有影響人身之安全 也是為了要保障你們的安全"},{"start":15645.23,"end":15647.27,"text":"那羅志祥委員呢"},{"start":15647.89,"end":15651.369999999999,"text":"我先就14 16案 我覺得沒有說服我啦"},{"start":15651.369999999999,"end":15658.57,"text":"第一個 這個國內語非藏族的說法 那去年跟前年就 夜市就不需要去啦"},{"start":15658.57,"end":15664.17,"text":"那事實上我要特別講的是 任何的機關 任何項目預算 一年增加四成"},{"start":15664.76,"end":15671.880000000001,"text":"那比例上就不是一個小的數字比例 那我覺得這個征服我認為是不合理的"},{"start":15671.880000000001,"end":15682.28,"text":"所以 簡列500萬元是考慮 如果你就算有所增加 我覺得你要增加到所謂的40% 我認為是太多"},{"start":15682.28,"end":15691.04,"text":"所以請那個文化部 你們自己提要簡列多少 我們再來討論一下 那至於國外旅費部分 其實到底也是相同"},{"start":15691.04,"end":15700.400000000001,"text":"那去年我們從尊節的角度 有對國外旅費來進行所謂的刪減 來為我們的這個公帑來節省"},{"start":15700.400000000001,"end":15708.480000000001,"text":"那今年就算你要有增加的需求 但我認為你增加將近快要一倍 將近90%"},{"start":15708.480000000001,"end":15714.720000000001,"text":"比起去年 我覺得一樣是不合理的 所以這個簡列的部分我覺得有必要"},{"start":15714.720000000001,"end":15719.04,"text":"但是要簡列多少的話 讓那個文化部來說明一下"},{"start":15719.04,"end":15720.880000000001,"text":"部長你覺得要簡列多少"},{"start":15724.94,"end":15727.42,"text":"不好意思 麻煩你麥克風要開"},{"start":15728.99,"end":15729.57,"text":"沒有"},{"start":15732,"end":15741.28,"text":"我還是希望那個不要簡列 然後凍結一部分 因為剛剛已經 我們同仁有解釋 是因為我們的業務"},{"start":15741.28,"end":15750.320000000002,"text":"你雖然說我們是成長那個費用 可是基本上我們的業務的那個項目也成長蠻多 因為在國內 你說"},{"start":15750.320000000002,"end":15756.880000000001,"text":"我們要去很多離島原住民區 其實都是因為工作量變多了 他並不是去玩耍"},{"start":15756.88,"end":15764.24,"text":"那剛剛講到文化交流 我們博物館不可能永遠在台灣自己站 一定要是跟國際之間"},{"start":15764.24,"end":15771.92,"text":"剛剛港澳之間 我們現在其實我們文化部還有預算編在港澳有人在那邊接應一些事情發生的"},{"start":15771.92,"end":15778.88,"text":"我們必須要做 所以那個也是固定的預算 以上就是我解釋 我們願意再寫更仔細一點"},{"start":15778.88,"end":15784.56,"text":"並不是為了成長而故意編這麼多 是我們真的業務變得很多 謝謝"},{"start":15784.56,"end":15786,"text":"港澳那邊你有人"},{"start":15786.08,"end":15786.64,"text":"有啊"},{"start":15786.64,"end":15787.14,"text":"是"},{"start":15788.16,"end":15797.6,"text":"跟委員報告 就是雖然現在正式的公務人員在港澳是沒有 但是在地的雇員以及辦公室的維護"},{"start":15797.6,"end":15806.32,"text":"那這個費用是都還在繼續進行當中 那另外陸委會他們也是會派員前往港澳去視察"},{"start":15806.32,"end":15814.4,"text":"那另外有一些急難救助的這個業務的需要 因為民間健康型的這樣子的一個互動還是在進行當中"},{"start":15814.4,"end":15819.84,"text":"所以有一些急難救助的這個任務需求 也有這個拆旅費的這個必要"},{"start":15819.84,"end":15820.4,"text":"那剛剛"},{"start":15820.4,"end":15822.68,"text":"所以你會用拆旅費去急難救助"},{"start":15822.68,"end":15828.72,"text":"不是 就是為了這個目的 我們可能要去協助 因為他們還是會去參加像一些藝文的展演"},{"start":15828.72,"end":15837.279999999999,"text":"或者是一些類似博覽會這樣子不同的活動 所以台灣跟港澳的這個交流並沒有停止"},{"start":15838.24,"end":15841.76,"text":"是 那這是針對陸委員"},{"start":15841.76,"end":15848.4,"text":"就委員所提到的 增加983萬5000元 增幅189.21%"},{"start":15848.4,"end":15850.32,"text":"這增幅實在是太可怕了"},{"start":15850.32,"end":15859.76,"text":"是 跟委員做報告 就是說陸委員提到的189 那當然是因為去年是被刪減的這樣子的一個弧度的這個母數計算"},{"start":15859.76,"end":15864.24,"text":"所以才有這樣子的一個數字 就是比較高額編列啦"},{"start":15864.24,"end":15866.44,"text":"沒關係 那委員他的說法 你覺得呢"},{"start":15866.44,"end":15874.52,"text":"那我再繼續解釋 就是2002年之後 疫情結束之後 事實上國際交流的這個能量是大爆發"},{"start":15874.52,"end":15883.24,"text":"我們累積了很多的這樣子的一個文化內容 那在疫情之後 大家都急著要出去 所以這個能量大爆發"},{"start":15883.24,"end":15888.32,"text":"所以我們也有做這樣子的一個增幅 但是增幅大概是 疫情之後"},{"start":15888.32,"end":15890.12,"text":"好幾年了 還在大爆發"},{"start":15890.12,"end":15899.560000000001,"text":"對 因為大家都會先吸收他們自己國內的文化內容 就是每個國家先吸收完 他的才開始會有國際的"},{"start":15899.560000000001,"end":15909.84,"text":"那我們大概有一點增幅 增幅大概1.8左右 並沒 一般來講大概會增加3到5% 但是我們只編了增了1.8%"},{"start":15909.84,"end":15911.560000000001,"text":"所以沒有太高"},{"start":15911.560000000001,"end":15913.36,"text":"你講的好像疫情是兩年前"},{"start":15913.36,"end":15918.12,"text":"我簡單的回應 我覺得這理由 我覺得還是沒有說服我啦"},{"start":15918.12,"end":15926.84,"text":"那如果這樣的話 我就要請那個布里頭號 因為我們還有第二輪的那個協商嘛 那就保留送協商 我的建議是這樣"},{"start":15928.6,"end":15929.140000000001,"text":"好"},{"start":15929.58,"end":15931.62,"text":"那我的案跟著你一起保留送協商"},{"start":15932.81,"end":15934.85,"text":"好不好 那就這樣子 我們繼續進行"},{"start":15937.710000000001,"end":15942.43,"text":"好 補充宣告第四案改為主決議 接著處理第一幕"},{"start":15942.43,"end":15944.43,"text":"欸 沒有 我們就說要休息了"},{"start":15945.24,"end":15947.24,"text":"對對對對對 好"},{"start":15947.24,"end":15954.24,"text":"那第一項文化部的通案部分業務費 第二項12到16審查結果 改為主決議為13 15"},{"start":15954.24,"end":15959.24,"text":"那另外呢 12 14 16保留送協商"},{"start":15960.01,"end":15960.51,"text":"以上"},{"start":15962.44,"end":15964.44,"text":"14也是你的嘛 對不對"},{"start":15964.44,"end":15966.44,"text":"對對 保留送協商"},{"start":15966.08,"end":15966.58,"text":"好"},{"start":15968.53,"end":15976.53,"text":"那接著我們在處理第一幕一般行政提案17到18之前 我們先休息吃個便當 我們預計"},{"start":15978.99,"end":15980.99,"text":"1點半 繼續改為"},{"start":15992.86,"end":15994.86,"text":"2點半"},{"start":15994.87,"end":15996.87,"text":"2點半"},{"start":16001.66,"end":16003.66,"text":"3點半"},{"start":18706.15,"end":18708.15,"text":"好 我們繼續開會"},{"start":18708.68,"end":18718.68,"text":"不好意思 因為剛剛有人提議說再多15分鐘 因為便當比較好進食 所以我才慢了一些 因為有人提議說30分鐘不到吃便當"},{"start":18722.6,"end":18727.6,"text":"好 第一幕行政二號第17 18案 我們提案的委員請說明"},{"start":18729.05,"end":18731.05,"text":"再次任作委員"},{"start":18732.15,"end":18734.15,"text":"好 大家午安"},{"start":18733.79,"end":18743.79,"text":"我正在這個案子做一個說明 這個案子立法院的預算中心都指出 那文化部呢"},{"start":18743.79,"end":18751.79,"text":"他主管預算不只是在本部 還分散在基金 行政法人 還有財團法人跟所屬機關"},{"start":18752.03,"end":18763.03,"text":"那文化部的經費大部分都是一大包 那如果沒有一個統一的管考表 立法院也很難來追蹤問題 是否是真正改善"},{"start":18763.03,"end":18774.03,"text":"所以呢 我希望文化部能夠提出管考表還有追蹤機制 那這個案子我仍然維持凍結200萬"},{"start":18775.44,"end":18777.44,"text":"以上"},{"start":18778.34,"end":18780.34,"text":"好 凍結200 那其他委員有意見"},{"start":18781.56,"end":18783.56,"text":"沒有吼 那我們主管機關請回覆"},{"start":18783.98,"end":18790.98,"text":"跟委員報告 我們是不是可以讓我們凍結的數目小一點 因為是這樣 因為上次我跟委員說明過 這個其實一般行政的維持費"},{"start":18790.98,"end":18798.98,"text":"所以它會影響的是我們一般的普通的業務維持 所以如果可以凍結100 然後讓我們做書面的整理跟說明 這樣可以嗎"},{"start":18800.6,"end":18802.6,"text":"好 委員有意見嗎"},{"start":18802.6,"end":18812.6,"text":"那是不是就是書面報告 把跨機關 跨基金 跨法人的一個預算問題做一個管考表"},{"start":18812.6,"end":18813.6,"text":"我們做個中整"},{"start":18813.6,"end":18824.6,"text":"然後還有要名列那個預算中心的評估問題 跟責任單位 還有應對科目 改善措施 期繩跟議席的效益"},{"start":18824.6,"end":18832.6,"text":"而且呢 也要說明是否修正補助 投資 績效 考核 還有內控 資訊公開跟利益衝突的一個防範機制"},{"start":18832.6,"end":18837.6,"text":"然後第四 提出每一季提供立法院追蹤的方式 這樣好不好"},{"start":18837.6,"end":18845.6,"text":"好 不過跟委員說明 因為它是一般行政啦 所以它的那個追蹤的方式可能不會像專案這樣這麼清晰 但它一樣會有執行的追蹤可以提供"},{"start":18845.6,"end":18848.6,"text":"好 可以讓我們可以看得懂 然後可以監督這樣"},{"start":18848.6,"end":18849.6,"text":"了解"},{"start":18849.6,"end":18850.6,"text":"好"},{"start":18850.9,"end":18851.9,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":18852.35,"end":18853.35,"text":"好 還有委員有意見嗎"},{"start":18856.13,"end":18857.13,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":18859.71,"end":18860.71,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":18861.06,"end":18862.06,"text":"好 那我們來處理喔"},{"start":18864.12,"end":18869.12,"text":"一般行政提案案號第17 18案審查結果 改為主決議17"},{"start":18869.12,"end":18875.12,"text":"那剛剛說凍結100萬嘛 凍結100萬 並針對各提案的要求 依審查會決議"},{"start":18875.12,"end":18880.12,"text":"提出書面報告 然後再使得動知 接著處理第二幕 綜合規劃"},{"start":18880.12,"end":18884.12,"text":"提案案號19到40 請吳思耀委員"},{"start":18885.53,"end":18887.53,"text":"謝謝 大家辛苦了"},{"start":18887.53,"end":18891.53,"text":"我要請部長次長大家"},{"start":18892.65,"end":18898.65,"text":"認真 我在綜合規劃有四個案 我認為都是非常我重視的事情"},{"start":18898.65,"end":18904.65,"text":"也是我們在綜合規劃對於文化不管視覺或是表演藝術很重要的"},{"start":18904.65,"end":18909.65,"text":"在規劃面向的政策 請我透過預算案的提出喔"},{"start":18909.65,"end":18911.65,"text":"希望文化部門要來精進喔"},{"start":18911.65,"end":18914.65,"text":"我的第20案主要是針對"},{"start":18915.75,"end":18919.75,"text":"思耀努力了這麼久 我們排除萬難"},{"start":18919.75,"end":18925.75,"text":"讓文化部可以回歸文化基本法 得以設置文化發展基金"},{"start":18925.75,"end":18930.75,"text":"文化發展基金一開始的規劃是要有58億"},{"start":18930.75,"end":18935.75,"text":"要用於活化公共藝術 壯大公共媒體 以及強化文化發展"},{"start":18936.58,"end":18942.58,"text":"但是讓這個基金催生了以後 我真的都覺得有點恨鐵不成鋼 但我知道有難度"},{"start":18943.65,"end":18948.65,"text":"可是基金被催生了可以被合法設置了 我們排除跟財政紀律法的憾格"},{"start":18948.65,"end":18951.65,"text":"可是我們看看原定是希望有58億"},{"start":18951.65,"end":18955.65,"text":"但是112年那時候剛上路的時候 稅入只編2.5億"},{"start":18955.65,"end":18960.65,"text":"到現在審查115年度預算 稅入預算只有2.05億"},{"start":18960.65,"end":18965.65,"text":"也就是我們自己文化部對文化發展基金編列的預算 沒有雄心壯志"},{"start":18965.65,"end":18969.65,"text":"我就是萎縮到剩下2億左右的規模"},{"start":18969.97,"end":18971.97,"text":"那我覺得怎麼協助大家能夠做"},{"start":18972.96,"end":18974.96,"text":"我認為修法是一個方法"},{"start":18974.96,"end":18979.96,"text":"當初我們試圖的希望在文化基本法24條提出修正草案"},{"start":18979.96,"end":18982.96,"text":"我們匡列文化發展基金的財源"},{"start":18982.96,"end":18987.96,"text":"修法的方式幫助文化部 在國家預算各部會都在爭取"},{"start":18987.96,"end":18992.96,"text":"我們可以爭取到更豐沛的預算投注於文化發展基金活化使用"},{"start":18992.96,"end":18993.96,"text":"Why not?"},{"start":18993.96,"end":18996.96,"text":"文化部的修法的立場我現在沒有看到"},{"start":18997.66,"end":18999.66,"text":"甚至我也建議小野部長"},{"start":18999.66,"end":19003.66,"text":"對不起 李遠部長 應當在善用行政院的文化發展會報"},{"start":19003.66,"end":19007.66,"text":"再把文化發展基金這一個得來不易的文化新的財源"},{"start":19007.66,"end":19011.66,"text":"好好的去請那個跨部會來支持"},{"start":19011.66,"end":19013.66,"text":"財源是什麼是重要的"},{"start":19014.32,"end":19016.32,"text":"沒有訂的話就沒有錢"},{"start":19017.36,"end":19020.36,"text":"我們除了審查預算 刪減預算 凍結預算"},{"start":19020.36,"end":19023.36,"text":"我立法委員我更要努力為文化部爭取預算"},{"start":19023.36,"end":19025.36,"text":"這是我的第28案"},{"start":19025.36,"end":19029.36,"text":"我的第29案就是我之前因為擔任幹部的關係"},{"start":19029.36,"end":19031.36,"text":"我離開文化委員會"},{"start":19031.2,"end":19032.2,"text":"兩年"},{"start":19032.38,"end":19034.38,"text":"我轉戰司法法制委員會"},{"start":19034.38,"end":19036.38,"text":"我深切的感受到"},{"start":19036.38,"end":19041.38,"text":"司法法制委員會我可以督導的是考試院跟人事總處"},{"start":19041.38,"end":19046.38,"text":"當我們希望能夠步步都是文化部落實文化主流化的思維"},{"start":19046.38,"end":19050.38,"text":"我們就必須在公部門的每一個公務同仁"},{"start":19050.38,"end":19054.38,"text":"他在受訓培育人才的時候都有文化的思維"},{"start":19054.38,"end":19056.38,"text":"可是我赫然發現"},{"start":19056.38,"end":19061.38,"text":"不管是在考試院的一些政策能力的訓練培訓"},{"start":19061.38,"end":19067.38,"text":"或者是人事總處的所有的公部門的這個能力的提升"},{"start":19067.38,"end":19071.38,"text":"都比較缺乏文化治理能力的課程"},{"start":19072.75,"end":19076.75,"text":"這是我在司法法制委員會兩年我所觀察的"},{"start":19076.75,"end":19078.75,"text":"所以回歸文化基本法"},{"start":19078.75,"end":19084.75,"text":"國家應自行或委託辦理文化藝術專業及行政人員之培育訓練"},{"start":19085.15,"end":19088.15,"text":"請文化部要有更精進的作為"},{"start":19088.15,"end":19090.15,"text":"當我問了考試院"},{"start":19090.15,"end":19093.15,"text":"那個時候考試院的新任院長在接受我備詢的時候"},{"start":19093.15,"end":19095.15,"text":"他也非常支持"},{"start":19095.15,"end":19097.15,"text":"那希望這個部門文化部來改進"},{"start":19097.15,"end":19098.15,"text":"30案"},{"start":19098.87,"end":19099.87,"text":"針對"},{"start":19101.46,"end":19103.46,"text":"是博物館這案嗎"},{"start":19103.46,"end":19105.46,"text":"對博物館政策白皮書"},{"start":19105.46,"end":19108.46,"text":"拖了一段時間我們終於上路了"},{"start":19108.46,"end":19112.46,"text":"那博物館我們如何為我們的博物館增加財源"},{"start":19112.46,"end":19115.46,"text":"我們看看以法國羅浮宮的經驗"},{"start":19115.46,"end":19120.46,"text":"他們可以透過群眾募資來作為博物館替代性的財務工具"},{"start":19120.46,"end":19124.46,"text":"而不是博物館只能夠靠門票來自籌"},{"start":19124.46,"end":19127.46,"text":"或者是依賴國家的預算支持"},{"start":19127.46,"end":19128.46,"text":"我要再說一次"},{"start":19128.46,"end":19132.46,"text":"我會發現思瑤在監督文化部門的預算"},{"start":19132.46,"end":19133.46,"text":"我除了監督預算"},{"start":19133.46,"end":19137.46,"text":"我更要想方設法爭取國家的財源用在文化"},{"start":19137.46,"end":19139.46,"text":"而在博物館的面向"},{"start":19139.46,"end":19141.46,"text":"如果能夠學習國際的經驗"},{"start":19141.46,"end":19143.46,"text":"我們活化現在的法規"},{"start":19143.46,"end":19147.46,"text":"以替代性財務的工具善用名利"},{"start":19147.46,"end":19152.46,"text":"我們其實是可以去爭取修法公益勸募條例"},{"start":19152.46,"end":19155.46,"text":"讓現在只能夠被動接受外界捐款"},{"start":19156.01,"end":19158.01,"text":"而不能主動發起"},{"start":19158.36,"end":19162.36,"text":"捐木的這個綁死的文化部門的作為也許可以打開"},{"start":19162.36,"end":19166.36,"text":"這是公益勸募條例的修法方向"},{"start":19166.36,"end":19171.36,"text":"第二個我們進一步的來鼓勵民間捐贈文化"},{"start":19171.36,"end":19173.36,"text":"除了實體的物件"},{"start":19173.36,"end":19177.36,"text":"譬如說順天把整批的那個畫作捐給國家"},{"start":19177.36,"end":19180.36,"text":"除了實體的文化物件藝術品"},{"start":19180.36,"end":19186.36,"text":"更可以讓他的捐贈的金額來計入基本所得的課稅"},{"start":19186.36,"end":19190.36,"text":"提升民間的捐贈意願"},{"start":19190.36,"end":19192.36,"text":"所以我對於這個提案是希望"},{"start":19192.36,"end":19194.36,"text":"對於公益勸募條例也好"},{"start":19194.36,"end":19196.36,"text":"所得基本稅額條例也好"},{"start":19196.36,"end":19200.36,"text":"文化部門對於爭取替代性財源"},{"start":19200.36,"end":19202.36,"text":"我這裡是針對博物館"},{"start":19202.36,"end":19203.36,"text":"視覺藝術優先"},{"start":19203.36,"end":19205.36,"text":"能不能夠來進行"},{"start":19205.36,"end":19208.36,"text":"學學羅浮宮怎麼做"},{"start":19208.36,"end":19210.36,"text":"最後一案"},{"start":19210.36,"end":19214.36,"text":"聘用人員人事條例一樣的"},{"start":19214.36,"end":19216.36,"text":"也就是這是我去司法法治委員會"},{"start":19216.36,"end":19218.36,"text":"我獲得的新的學習"},{"start":19218.36,"end":19222.36,"text":"當我在質詢考試院的院長"},{"start":19222.36,"end":19228.36,"text":"他支不支持我們積極協調考試院跟文化部"},{"start":19228.36,"end":19230.36,"text":"以文化專業人員為範圍"},{"start":19230.36,"end":19233.36,"text":"去推動文化人員聘認條例"},{"start":19233.36,"end":19234.36,"text":"說了這麼久"},{"start":19234.36,"end":19236.36,"text":"從來沒有進展"},{"start":19236.36,"end":19240.36,"text":"以至於我們受限於現在的人事專業法律"},{"start":19240.36,"end":19242.36,"text":"我們沒有辦法真的去"},{"start":19242.36,"end":19245.36,"text":"擴大對於文化專業人員的任用"},{"start":19245.36,"end":19247.36,"text":"而現在國家的管社"},{"start":19247.36,"end":19249.36,"text":"不管是從兒童未來館"},{"start":19249.36,"end":19250.36,"text":"漫畫館"},{"start":19250.36,"end":19251.36,"text":"鐵道博物園區"},{"start":19251.36,"end":19253.36,"text":"這麼多新的文化管社"},{"start":19253.36,"end":19255.36,"text":"我們需要新的文化人才"},{"start":19255.36,"end":19258.36,"text":"那麼在人事聘認條例"},{"start":19258.36,"end":19261.36,"text":"要不要去制定它"},{"start":19261.36,"end":19262.36,"text":"去優化它"},{"start":19262.36,"end":19266.36,"text":"我得到考試院的立場是肯定的"},{"start":19266.36,"end":19267.36,"text":"那這樣的話"},{"start":19267.36,"end":19270.36,"text":"文化部我們就要積極動起來"},{"start":19270.36,"end":19272.36,"text":"所以我的四個提案大家可以發現"},{"start":19272.36,"end":19274.36,"text":"在增加文化財源"},{"start":19274.36,"end":19277.36,"text":"以及增加我們人事聘認的鬆綁"},{"start":19278.76,"end":19279.76,"text":"這是我"},{"start":19280.11,"end":19281.11,"text":"舉行動念"},{"start":19281.11,"end":19283.11,"text":"還有增加人事鬆綁之餘"},{"start":19283.11,"end":19286.11,"text":"現有的公務同仁如何讓他有文化思維"},{"start":19286.11,"end":19289.11,"text":"這四個案都攸關我們綜合規劃重要的業務"},{"start":19289.11,"end":19292.11,"text":"稍後請你們綜合回覆謝謝"},{"start":19295.8,"end":19298.8,"text":"陳培育委員再來郭育芹委員"},{"start":19298.8,"end":19299.8,"text":"羅志祥委員"},{"start":19299.8,"end":19301.8,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":19301.8,"end":19302.8,"text":"對不起對不起等一下"},{"start":19302.8,"end":19304.8,"text":"秀寶委員有舉手"},{"start":19304.8,"end":19305.8,"text":"那就是陳培育委員"},{"start":19305.8,"end":19307.8,"text":"郭育芹委員陳秀寶委員"},{"start":19307.8,"end":19308.8,"text":"再來羅志祥委員"},{"start":19309.93,"end":19310.93,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":19310.93,"end":19311.93,"text":"這一幕我有三案"},{"start":19311.93,"end":19313.93,"text":"19 20 21"},{"start":19313.93,"end":19316.93,"text":"第一個我要提醒文化部剛剛部長早上說"},{"start":19316.93,"end":19319.93,"text":"文化部想要急著用很多的AI"},{"start":19319.93,"end":19321.93,"text":"那我們本來也在關注很多AI的問題"},{"start":19321.93,"end":19325.93,"text":"發現文化部可能對於AI有一些不同的理解跟想像"},{"start":19325.93,"end":19327.93,"text":"我覺得需要做一些溝通"},{"start":19327.93,"end":19331.93,"text":"第一個現在台灣急需要自己有繁體"},{"start":19331.93,"end":19333.93,"text":"中文語料的這個語言模型"},{"start":19333.93,"end":19335.93,"text":"但是我們知道發展語言模型"},{"start":19335.93,"end":19338.93,"text":"其實非常的耗費成本不可能讓文化部來做"},{"start":19338.93,"end":19342.93,"text":"那到底文化部可以如何協助不同國家的語言模型"},{"start":19342.93,"end":19344.93,"text":"如果他們希望有繁中的"},{"start":19344.93,"end":19346.93,"text":"繁體中文的資料的時候"},{"start":19346.93,"end":19348.93,"text":"到底文化部可以如何協助"},{"start":19348.93,"end":19350.93,"text":"當然那之前我們開了座談會"},{"start":19350.93,"end":19352.93,"text":"謝謝司藥委員也有一起參加"},{"start":19352.93,"end":19357.93,"text":"在這個座談會上其實我們找了不論是出版雜誌廣播影視新聞報紙"},{"start":19357.93,"end":19360.93,"text":"大家都在說如何把繁中語料送上雲端"},{"start":19360.93,"end":19362.93,"text":"在雲端上的台灣不要被消失"},{"start":19362.93,"end":19366.93,"text":"這件事情文化部真的有其必要性跟角色"},{"start":19366.93,"end":19372.93,"text":"那目前我們知道國科會已經承諾願意編列預算協助製作這些語料"},{"start":19372.93,"end":19374.93,"text":"讓它變成是代語的模型可以讀取的"},{"start":19374.93,"end":19376.93,"text":"可是這個部分"},{"start":19377.18,"end":19382.18,"text":"國科會有提到也希望文化部自己要主動積極找業者去跟國科會對接"},{"start":19382.18,"end":19386.18,"text":"這個部分我們會持續的監督希望文化部可以有競速有角色"},{"start":19386.18,"end":19389.18,"text":"再來就是目前有很多創作比賽"},{"start":19389.18,"end":19393.18,"text":"我們今天早上也講到很多台灣本土的創作者不論在哪個面向"},{"start":19393.18,"end":19399.18,"text":"但是目前所有文化部的補助或是證件都沒有針對AI創作立出規範"},{"start":19399.18,"end":19401.18,"text":"也就是說如果今天有個創作者"},{"start":19401.18,"end":19406.18,"text":"他的寫小說裡面可能三分之一甚至超過二分之一是由AI來創作"},{"start":19406.18,"end":19408.18,"text":"但是我們卻沒有辦法辨識出來"},{"start":19408.18,"end":19410.18,"text":"那這樣的比賽還公平嗎"},{"start":19410.18,"end":19413.18,"text":"還是說文化部有沒有可能考慮參考國外的經驗"},{"start":19413.18,"end":19415.18,"text":"確實現在也有一些是AI的比賽"},{"start":19415.18,"end":19420.18,"text":"那我覺得要把非AI的創作跟AI的創作分開來這件事情"},{"start":19420.18,"end":19423.18,"text":"我覺得對於創作者是比較公平的"},{"start":19423.18,"end":19428.18,"text":"那第三個我們看到文化部在去年的政令宣導圖文裡面"},{"start":19428.18,"end":19430.18,"text":"自己也用了AI做內容"},{"start":19430.18,"end":19432.18,"text":"可是我們要提醒這件事情"},{"start":19432.18,"end":19435.18,"text":"當文化部是主管所有的內容的主管機關的時候"},{"start":19435.18,"end":19438.18,"text":"對於使用AI來做政令宣導這件事情"},{"start":19438.18,"end":19440.18,"text":"文化部自己內部有沒有相關的規範"},{"start":19440.18,"end":19442.18,"text":"甚至是對於所有的標案廠商"},{"start":19442.18,"end":19445.18,"text":"有沒有相關的審查跟把關機制"},{"start":19445.18,"end":19448.18,"text":"相關的使用原則到底會是什麼標是規範又是什麼"},{"start":19448.18,"end":19450.18,"text":"如果文化部自己沒有角色"},{"start":19450.18,"end":19455.18,"text":"那我想所有的標的廠商或者是補助的對象內容"},{"start":19455.18,"end":19458.18,"text":"他們可能也就無上限的使用AI"},{"start":19458.18,"end":19461.18,"text":"那我覺得這個會是一個對內容的折損"},{"start":19461.18,"end":19463.18,"text":"第二個案子是20案"},{"start":19463.18,"end":19465.18,"text":"20案是關於文化統計"},{"start":19465.18,"end":19468.18,"text":"其實台灣要發展文化對外當然是好事"},{"start":19468.18,"end":19473.18,"text":"可是我們的基礎資料其實在建構上真的還有有待補強"},{"start":19473.18,"end":19476.18,"text":"包含說目前的文化統計文化參與"},{"start":19476.18,"end":19479.18,"text":"消費調查全國藝文活動資訊系統"},{"start":19479.18,"end":19481.18,"text":"這些系統目前其實都沒有對接起來"},{"start":19481.18,"end":19484.18,"text":"所以包含文化並怎麼使用文化消費趨勢是什麼"},{"start":19484.18,"end":19487.18,"text":"如果今天有所有的產業內容業者"},{"start":19487.18,"end":19490.18,"text":"或者是所有想要發展新產業的人"},{"start":19490.18,"end":19492.18,"text":"我們沒有這些基本的資料"},{"start":19492.18,"end":19494.18,"text":"我覺得其實是很可惜"},{"start":19494.18,"end":19496.18,"text":"那另外如果從文化平權的角度"},{"start":19496.18,"end":19497.18,"text":"如果沒有這些資料"},{"start":19497.18,"end":19500.18,"text":"我們也不知道誰被排除在外了"},{"start":19500.18,"end":19502.18,"text":"那一旦沒有辦法知道誰被排除在外"},{"start":19502.18,"end":19506.18,"text":"我們的文化平權政策就有可能打不到點"},{"start":19506.18,"end":19509.18,"text":"所以這個部分也是要提醒文化部持續的加強"},{"start":19509.18,"end":19511.18,"text":"最後一個21案"},{"start":19512.18,"end":19513.18,"text":"有蠻多個案子"},{"start":19513.18,"end":19517.18,"text":"但是我就簡單的說包含有性平安的文化界人士"},{"start":19517.18,"end":19520.18,"text":"都還是可以持續透過補助評審節目的機制"},{"start":19520.18,"end":19521.18,"text":"參與公部門的計畫"},{"start":19521.18,"end":19523.18,"text":"我們希望文化部持續改進"},{"start":19523.18,"end":19526.18,"text":"再來就是國家蕭響樂團從2002年改制以來"},{"start":19526.18,"end":19529.18,"text":"其實跟國表藝三館關係不明"},{"start":19529.18,"end":19531.18,"text":"那如果沒有相關的法規範"},{"start":19531.18,"end":19533.18,"text":"我覺得對於國表藝中心"},{"start":19533.18,"end":19536.18,"text":"或者是其他樂團的成員其實也都很不公平"},{"start":19536.18,"end":19540.18,"text":"這個部分我們還是希望文化部可以持續精進"},{"start":19540.18,"end":19544.18,"text":"再來就是根據台北市藝術創作者職業工會"},{"start":19544.18,"end":19546.18,"text":"做的性平調查發現"},{"start":19546.18,"end":19548.18,"text":"大部分的人都有經常性夜間工作"},{"start":19548.18,"end":19550.18,"text":"加班時數過高"},{"start":19550.18,"end":19554.18,"text":"那文化部如何協助並且鼓勵藝文團體建立職場申訴管道"},{"start":19554.18,"end":19556.18,"text":"或是改善藝文職場勞動環境"},{"start":19556.18,"end":19558.18,"text":"我覺得這都是未來還可以加強的"},{"start":19558.18,"end":19560.18,"text":"21案我並動"},{"start":19560.18,"end":19562.18,"text":"前面兩個案我可以改主決議"},{"start":19562.18,"end":19564.18,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":19566.95,"end":19568.95,"text":"好"},{"start":19569.29,"end":19571.29,"text":"過去為"},{"start":19572.82,"end":19574.82,"text":"好"},{"start":19602.82,"end":19605.82,"text":"那只是說這個淨零的指引還有綠色標章"},{"start":19605.82,"end":19608.82,"text":"跟這個淨零的一個評估的一個指標"},{"start":19608.82,"end":19612.82,"text":"那它需要一個比較長期的一個完備"},{"start":19612.82,"end":19616.82,"text":"然後跟後面一些美合的一些機制來持續的推動"},{"start":19616.82,"end":19619.82,"text":"那我想這已經是國際的一個趨勢"},{"start":19619.82,"end":19623.82,"text":"那我們在這邊還是要請這個文化部能夠"},{"start":19623.82,"end":19627.82,"text":"說明一下就是目前這個淨零的一個指標"},{"start":19627.82,"end":19630.82,"text":"然後還有剛剛我所說的這些完備的一些機制"},{"start":19630.82,"end":19633.82,"text":"那怎麼樣能夠讓它真正的一個落實"},{"start":19633.82,"end":19636.82,"text":"在我們的文化產業當中來做一個發展"},{"start":19636.82,"end":19638.82,"text":"那這個部分其實我沒有堅持"},{"start":19638.82,"end":19640.82,"text":"那可以改主決議沒問題好以上"},{"start":19644.37,"end":19645.37,"text":"陳秀八委員"},{"start":19646.51,"end":19648.51,"text":"謝謝主席在這一幕我有兩個案子"},{"start":19648.51,"end":19650.51,"text":"第一個案子是第27案"},{"start":19650.51,"end":19655.51,"text":"27案的部分是關於文化發展之評估與推動"},{"start":19655.51,"end":19658.51,"text":"對於這個藝文工作者的認定標準"},{"start":19658.51,"end":19660.51,"text":"本席一直都在關心"},{"start":19660.51,"end":19664.51,"text":"但文化部來說明說剛開始你們卻覺得說"},{"start":19664.51,"end":19667.51,"text":"基於創作跟職業制有藝文工作者"},{"start":19667.51,"end":19669.51,"text":"身分是以自我認定為原則"},{"start":19669.51,"end":19671.51,"text":"無需經過他人審查或認可"},{"start":19671.51,"end":19675.51,"text":"但是為什麼要去認可去認定他的身分"},{"start":19675.51,"end":19678.51,"text":"是因為希望我們給這些藝文工作者有個保障"},{"start":19678.51,"end":19684.51,"text":"那有保障的話我們必須透過藝文工會協會來開始處理的話"},{"start":19684.51,"end":19690.51,"text":"必須要有一個認可就是他確認他是本身是藝文工作者"},{"start":19690.51,"end":19694.51,"text":"藉由藝文工作的工會相關的工會協會"},{"start":19694.51,"end":19697.51,"text":"我們來與這些藝文工作者"},{"start":19697.51,"end":19700.51,"text":"給予他們一些不管在工作上的協助"},{"start":19700.51,"end":19704.51,"text":"甚至於是勞健保一個工作身分"},{"start":19704.51,"end":19706.51,"text":"取得這樣子的一個基本的保障"},{"start":19706.51,"end":19709.51,"text":"那如果你沒有一個身分的認定"},{"start":19709.51,"end":19714.51,"text":"沒有一個透過藝文工協會的這個介入來協助"},{"start":19714.51,"end":19718.51,"text":"那其實這些藝文工作者通常他們不管是在生活上工作上"},{"start":19718.51,"end":19721.51,"text":"或者是在這個勞健保的身分上"},{"start":19721.51,"end":19723.51,"text":"就比較沒有辦法取得"},{"start":19723.51,"end":19725.51,"text":"那文化部你們有說你們在今年的一月份"},{"start":19725.51,"end":19727.51,"text":"有辦理座單會及諮詢會議"},{"start":19727.51,"end":19733.51,"text":"會中整藝文領域的職業工會來產業工會代表"},{"start":19733.51,"end":19737.51,"text":"然後會來做討論出一個認定的模式"},{"start":19737.51,"end":19739.51,"text":"比較有公信力"},{"start":19739.51,"end":19742.51,"text":"那後續本席是希望文化部能夠"},{"start":19744.3,"end":19748.3,"text":"對於如何研議如何制定認定標準"},{"start":19748.3,"end":19752.3,"text":"這個部分來協助藝文工會協會"},{"start":19752.3,"end":19759.3,"text":"就是從的可以有一個認定藝文工作者身分的這樣一個流程"},{"start":19759.3,"end":19761.3,"text":"一個程序"},{"start":19761.3,"end":19765.3,"text":"那這個部分等一下請我們文化部這邊再說明一下"},{"start":19765.3,"end":19768.3,"text":"那第二個案子是第32案"},{"start":19768.3,"end":19774.3,"text":"第32案的部分主要是這個業務是我們關於文化活動資訊調查局統計"},{"start":19774.3,"end":19777.3,"text":"有新聞指出中國文化滲透"},{"start":19777.3,"end":19783.3,"text":"它是以媒體公司擔任中間人的角色來辦理網紅競賽"},{"start":19783.3,"end":19785.3,"text":"那我們這邊有網紅去參賽之後"},{"start":19785.3,"end":19790.3,"text":"他就邀請網紅撰寫美食旅遊這樣子包裝的節目"},{"start":19790.3,"end":19792.3,"text":"讓我們去製作出來的節目"},{"start":19792.3,"end":19796.3,"text":"讓我們一般的民眾以為說大陸就是生活非常的愜意"},{"start":19796.3,"end":19799.3,"text":"那非常的輕鬆物價非常的便宜"},{"start":19799.3,"end":19802.3,"text":"那沒有去提到說國際間國際新聞都有揭露到的"},{"start":19802.3,"end":19807.3,"text":"大陸現在目前面對的高失業率低薪讓我這樣子"},{"start":19807.3,"end":19812.3,"text":"所以其實這種比較片面的就是以美食旅遊這樣包裝的節目"},{"start":19812.3,"end":19817.3,"text":"讓民眾很難以瞭解中國現在他們所面對的這樣的困境"},{"start":19817.3,"end":19820.3,"text":"而對中國的生活有嚮往"},{"start":19820.3,"end":19823.3,"text":"我覺得這樣子是會混淆到我們自己"},{"start":19823.3,"end":19827.3,"text":"對自己國家這個有認同這個動搖"},{"start":19827.3,"end":19831.3,"text":"那這個部分我會提這個案子是要提醒"},{"start":19831.3,"end":19839.3,"text":"文化部這邊你們對於這樣子的狀況應該要有一個相關的政策"},{"start":19839.3,"end":19845.3,"text":"那文化部裡面有說明說現在有積極推動提升本土文化產業競爭力這個方案"},{"start":19845.3,"end":19849.3,"text":"那也會加強輔導國內影視文創內容"},{"start":19849.3,"end":19855.3,"text":"那也支持公廣集團來產製比較獨立多元的新聞及節目內容"},{"start":19855.3,"end":19860.3,"text":"就是比較正向而且是真實面的報導"},{"start":19860.3,"end":19864.3,"text":"那這邊本席是要提醒文化部就是針對中國的文化滲透及文化統戰"},{"start":19864.3,"end":19868.3,"text":"我們還是要研議相關的文化政策來提醒民眾"},{"start":19868.3,"end":19871.3,"text":"那這一題這個案子我可以改組決議"},{"start":19871.3,"end":19874.3,"text":"那也希望說這個部分請你們一定要重視喔"},{"start":19876.33,"end":19878.33,"text":"羅志祥委員"},{"start":19878.33,"end":19882.33,"text":"好的是案號38資安的管理凍結兩千萬"},{"start":19882.33,"end":19885.33,"text":"但我現在願意改成組決議"},{"start":19885.33,"end":19891.33,"text":"那查閱預算書發現這個114年度文化部的同一個項目"},{"start":19891.33,"end":19897.33,"text":"資訊系統維護安全管理預算編列是8178萬1000元"},{"start":19897.33,"end":19902.33,"text":"而今年編列預算增加了將近兩千萬元"},{"start":19902.33,"end":19905.33,"text":"但預算的項目跟內容幾乎一樣"},{"start":19905.33,"end":19910.33,"text":"文字沒變但是預算增加兩千萬我覺得這很難說服大眾"},{"start":19910.33,"end":19914.33,"text":"那後來文化部也來說明說是有新增相關業務"},{"start":19914.33,"end":19920.33,"text":"包括配合數位部來辦理相關計畫流量管理搬機房等等"},{"start":19920.33,"end":19923.33,"text":"那這一點我能接受所以改成組決議"},{"start":19923.33,"end":19925.33,"text":"但還是要強調一下"},{"start":19925.33,"end":19929.33,"text":"政府部門編列預算提出預算需求的時候不應該過於隨意"},{"start":19929.33,"end":19931.33,"text":"每一筆錢都是人民納稅錢"},{"start":19931.33,"end":19936.33,"text":"支持合理使用但預算編籌的原則就是要透明化"},{"start":19936.33,"end":19939.33,"text":"說明清楚新增開銷的用途跟效果"},{"start":19939.33,"end":19942.33,"text":"不要說就是用複製貼上"},{"start":19942.33,"end":19944.33,"text":"這樣子我覺得不夠嚴謹以上"},{"start":19948.27,"end":19953.27,"text":"好請各位主管機關回覆委員所提之提問"},{"start":19955.87,"end":19959.87,"text":"好 委員好我大概做一個統一的回覆"},{"start":19960.98,"end":19962.98,"text":"次要委的部分針對大概幾個面向"},{"start":19962.98,"end":19964.98,"text":"一個是裁員開拓的面向"},{"start":19964.98,"end":19968.98,"text":"不管是這個文化發展基金會還是"},{"start":19970.16,"end":19974.16,"text":"發展基金還是這個公益勸募"},{"start":19974.16,"end":19978.16,"text":"就是讓博物館的部分變成可以接受公益的做法"},{"start":19978.16,"end":19982.16,"text":"這個部分其實我們算是有在推動"},{"start":19982.16,"end":19984.16,"text":"但的確進度很慢因為很困難"},{"start":19984.16,"end":19988.16,"text":"就是像文化基金裡面我們在5G"},{"start":19988.16,"end":19992.16,"text":"或者是無線頻率使用還有OTD平台課稅這個部分"},{"start":19992.16,"end":19993.16,"text":"因為有其他的主管機關"},{"start":19993.16,"end":19998.16,"text":"所以一直很難說讓他們統一說把那個費用納入我們的收入"},{"start":19998.16,"end":20001.16,"text":"那至於讓這個博物館接受勸募的這一塊"},{"start":20001.16,"end":20003.16,"text":"因為之前其實有做過協調"},{"start":20003.16,"end":20006.16,"text":"那衛福部基本上仍然會怕影響大眾等等的"},{"start":20006.16,"end":20009.16,"text":"不過那個部分如果博物館是用基金的方式"},{"start":20009.16,"end":20011.16,"text":"或者是有基金會在後面的話"},{"start":20011.16,"end":20013.16,"text":"那導致可以接受這個捐款"},{"start":20013.16,"end":20015.16,"text":"所以我們還是先用這個方法處理"},{"start":20015.16,"end":20017.16,"text":"因為如果我們不這樣處理"},{"start":20017.16,"end":20019.16,"text":"沒有公益勸募條例的開放的話"},{"start":20019.16,"end":20023.16,"text":"我們就算有捐款也是要繳到國庫去"},{"start":20023.16,"end":20026.16,"text":"也不能留在博物館中做使用"},{"start":20026.16,"end":20027.16,"text":"那至於課程的部分"},{"start":20027.16,"end":20029.16,"text":"我們就是跟人事處我們來做配合"},{"start":20029.16,"end":20032.16,"text":"我們來做針對不管是文化基本法"},{"start":20032.16,"end":20034.16,"text":"我們現在其實已經有的是跟語言相關的"},{"start":20034.16,"end":20036.16,"text":"國家語言這一塊其實已經有提供一些課程"},{"start":20036.16,"end":20039.16,"text":"但是在文化基本法跟所謂文化行政的這一塊"},{"start":20039.16,"end":20041.16,"text":"我們來跟人事處"},{"start":20041.16,"end":20044.16,"text":"人事總處來做合作來做這樣的發展"},{"start":20044.16,"end":20049.16,"text":"那至於在這個人員聘任上的文化專業人員的人事"},{"start":20049.16,"end":20050.16,"text":"聘任條例的部分"},{"start":20050.16,"end":20052.16,"text":"我們來跟考試院協調"},{"start":20052.16,"end":20054.16,"text":"因為我們最近正在跟考試院協談的"},{"start":20054.16,"end":20056.16,"text":"比較是我們文化行政出國的部分"},{"start":20056.16,"end":20059.16,"text":"因為我們在國外住外的人員"},{"start":20059.16,"end":20062.16,"text":"他因為沒有強迫的義務跟外交部不同"},{"start":20062.16,"end":20064.16,"text":"所以我們一直在商量說這件事要怎麼解決"},{"start":20064.16,"end":20069.16,"text":"那另外就是裴議委員對於AI的部分"},{"start":20069.16,"end":20072.16,"text":"有一些詢問"},{"start":20072.16,"end":20074.16,"text":"第一個在AI語料庫的部分"},{"start":20074.16,"end":20077.16,"text":"我們現在基本上在AI語料庫的提供"},{"start":20077.16,"end":20078.16,"text":"是跟書發部合作"},{"start":20078.16,"end":20080.16,"text":"我們應該是所有提供資料裡面的第一名"},{"start":20080.16,"end":20083.16,"text":"就是我們現在已經提供超過百萬筆的資料"},{"start":20083.16,"end":20086.16,"text":"進入這個國家主權AI的這個要求的訓練"},{"start":20086.16,"end":20089.16,"text":"那現在比較大的問題是出現在"},{"start":20089.16,"end":20091.16,"text":"我們有些資料並沒有擁有他的著作權"},{"start":20091.16,"end":20093.16,"text":"所以在著作權授權上面"},{"start":20093.16,"end":20096.16,"text":"現在有用這個AI創新利用條例"},{"start":20096.16,"end":20098.16,"text":"希望能夠克服這個著作權的問題"},{"start":20098.16,"end":20101.16,"text":"但在沒有著作權疑慮的地方"},{"start":20101.16,"end":20102.16,"text":"我們就是盡可能的提供"},{"start":20102.16,"end":20106.16,"text":"希望用這個方式讓繁中的內容可以上到雲端"},{"start":20106.16,"end":20108.16,"text":"那至於在AI的創作規範上"},{"start":20108.16,"end":20110.16,"text":"這一題其實是高難度的議題"},{"start":20110.16,"end":20112.16,"text":"難度我們大概有兩個處理方式"},{"start":20112.16,"end":20113.16,"text":"第一個處理方式就是說"},{"start":20113.16,"end":20116.16,"text":"我們很專注在真人的創作權"},{"start":20116.16,"end":20118.16,"text":"就基本上我們仍然只承認真人的著作權"},{"start":20118.16,"end":20119.16,"text":"AI我們到目前為止"},{"start":20119.16,"end":20122.16,"text":"承認他站在輔導協助應用的立場"},{"start":20122.16,"end":20124.16,"text":"而且他必須做結識"},{"start":20124.16,"end":20125.16,"text":"他在不結識的情況下"},{"start":20125.16,"end":20128.16,"text":"我們會認為那是一種詐騙"},{"start":20128.16,"end":20130.16,"text":"所以我們未來甚至是可以把"},{"start":20130.16,"end":20132.16,"text":"我們的獎棍的獎金追回等等"},{"start":20132.16,"end":20134.16,"text":"那但是呢真正困難的事情是"},{"start":20134.16,"end":20136.16,"text":"他如果有使用AI我們知不知道"},{"start":20136.16,"end":20139.16,"text":"所以我們現在做的一個案子是"},{"start":20139.16,"end":20141.16,"text":"如何用AI辨識AI"},{"start":20141.16,"end":20144.16,"text":"就是說如果大家提進來的創作的作品"},{"start":20144.16,"end":20147.16,"text":"他有使用AI在他沒有揭露的情況下"},{"start":20147.16,"end":20148.16,"text":"文化部能不能夠辨識"},{"start":20148.16,"end":20150.16,"text":"所以現在正在做這個方案的研議"},{"start":20150.16,"end":20152.16,"text":"希望能透過辨識來做這個區分"},{"start":20152.16,"end":20156.16,"text":"那至於協助AI成為這個文化內容的"},{"start":20156.16,"end":20159.16,"text":"這個工具之一這件事情"},{"start":20159.16,"end":20160.16,"text":"的確有在進行"},{"start":20160.16,"end":20162.16,"text":"但他還沒有辦法到說"},{"start":20162.16,"end":20164.16,"text":"我們讓創作人真人有一條"},{"start":20164.16,"end":20166.16,"text":"這個獎金跟真文的路線"},{"start":20166.16,"end":20168.16,"text":"然後讓AI有一條真文的路線"},{"start":20168.16,"end":20169.16,"text":"然後讓AI有一條"},{"start":20169.16,"end":20172.16,"text":"因為整個AI對於著作權的影響"},{"start":20172.16,"end":20174.16,"text":"跟對於創作權的這個"},{"start":20174.16,"end":20176.16,"text":"這個比例跟成分這件事情"},{"start":20176.16,"end":20178.16,"text":"我想在全世界都還沒有辦法"},{"start":20178.16,"end":20179.16,"text":"發展出一套標準"},{"start":20179.16,"end":20182.16,"text":"到目前來說我們要保障的是說"},{"start":20182.16,"end":20185.16,"text":"即使利用AI他都不影響真人的"},{"start":20185.16,"end":20188.16,"text":"這個就業率不影響真人的薪資"},{"start":20188.16,"end":20190.16,"text":"我們現在比較在做的是還在這個階段"},{"start":20191.86,"end":20195.86,"text":"那在這個郭一群委員"},{"start":20195.86,"end":20198.86,"text":"在談到藝文工作者認定標準的這個部分"},{"start":20198.86,"end":20200.86,"text":"這個部分我們現在的做法"},{"start":20200.86,"end":20202.86,"text":"的確是跟工協會來合作"},{"start":20202.86,"end":20205.86,"text":"原因是因為在已經發生的業務範圍裡面"},{"start":20205.86,"end":20207.86,"text":"譬如像出版業像影視業"},{"start":20207.86,"end":20209.86,"text":"他只要有公司只要有受僱"},{"start":20209.86,"end":20210.86,"text":"其實他就會進入所謂的"},{"start":20210.86,"end":20211.86,"text":"藝文產業的工作"},{"start":20211.86,"end":20213.86,"text":"那個部分的認定其實不太有問題"},{"start":20213.86,"end":20215.86,"text":"現在有問題的會是出現在"},{"start":20215.86,"end":20216.86,"text":"自由業的部分"},{"start":20216.86,"end":20218.86,"text":"他可能是斜槓"},{"start":20218.86,"end":20220.86,"text":"他可能是在業餘的情況下"},{"start":20220.86,"end":20222.86,"text":"從事藝文創作"},{"start":20222.86,"end":20224.86,"text":"那因為這在藝文界是非常普遍的狀態"},{"start":20224.86,"end":20226.86,"text":"尤其在學校任職然後兼任藝文創作"},{"start":20226.86,"end":20229.86,"text":"所以他通常如果有另外一個職業身分"},{"start":20229.86,"end":20231.86,"text":"他就會被另外一個職業身分認定"},{"start":20231.86,"end":20233.86,"text":"只有純粹的創作者"},{"start":20233.86,"end":20236.86,"text":"通常他會在新秀跟起步的階段"},{"start":20236.86,"end":20241.86,"text":"的那個時候才會是這個認定上難的困難"},{"start":20241.86,"end":20243.86,"text":"那所以這個部分"},{"start":20243.86,"end":20245.86,"text":"第一個我們就是縮小他的範圍"},{"start":20245.86,"end":20248.86,"text":"盡可能的讓可被辨認的人被辨認出來"},{"start":20248.86,"end":20250.86,"text":"受到勞動法的基本保障"},{"start":20250.86,"end":20252.86,"text":"那針對不能辨認的部分"},{"start":20252.86,"end":20254.86,"text":"我們再來跟工學會協商"},{"start":20254.86,"end":20256.86,"text":"那如何讓他變成是職業工會的內容"},{"start":20256.86,"end":20258.86,"text":"然後"},{"start":20261.25,"end":20263.25,"text":"那是那個秀巴委員的"},{"start":20263.25,"end":20265.25,"text":"不好意思"},{"start":20266.84,"end":20268.84,"text":"中國的那個"},{"start":20268.84,"end":20270.84,"text":"所謂內容統戰的部分"},{"start":20270.84,"end":20272.84,"text":"內容統戰的部分我們現在"},{"start":20272.84,"end":20274.84,"text":"除了剛剛委員提到的我們是增加"},{"start":20274.84,"end":20276.84,"text":"本土的內容的產制以外"},{"start":20276.84,"end":20278.84,"text":"我們能做到的現在的政策上"},{"start":20278.84,"end":20280.84,"text":"是強化媒體識讀"},{"start":20280.84,"end":20282.84,"text":"就是說在這些內容裡面"},{"start":20282.84,"end":20284.84,"text":"他具有他的背後的統戰意義"},{"start":20284.84,"end":20286.84,"text":"或者是他在媒體上"},{"start":20286.84,"end":20288.84,"text":"其實很多的時候他的內容是"},{"start":20288.84,"end":20290.84,"text":"有錯誤的其實是透過"},{"start":20290.84,"end":20292.84,"text":"類似詐騙的手段讓大家"},{"start":20292.84,"end":20294.84,"text":"誤認那這些媒體識讀的能力是"},{"start":20294.84,"end":20296.84,"text":"我還不在政策上可以做強化的"},{"start":20296.84,"end":20298.84,"text":"大概是針對"},{"start":20298.84,"end":20300.84,"text":"這些事情"},{"start":20300.84,"end":20302.84,"text":"然後針對資訊的部分我想剛剛"},{"start":20302.84,"end":20304.84,"text":"羅委員已經有"},{"start":20304.84,"end":20306.84,"text":"跟羅委員做解釋我所以這邊就"},{"start":20306.84,"end":20308.84,"text":"不再多做新的說明"},{"start":20308.84,"end":20310.84,"text":"以上總和回答謝謝"},{"start":20310.84,"end":20312.84,"text":"好目前我們我是第22啦"},{"start":20312.84,"end":20314.84,"text":"也該做決議"},{"start":20317.6,"end":20319.6,"text":"我是要委員請說"},{"start":20319.98,"end":20321.98,"text":"還是請謝謝"},{"start":20321.98,"end":20323.98,"text":"十四次長的說明"},{"start":20323.98,"end":20325.98,"text":"我請部長還是要強化"},{"start":20325.98,"end":20327.98,"text":"督導我的四個案"},{"start":20327.98,"end":20329.98,"text":"都涉及跨部會"},{"start":20329.98,"end":20332.98,"text":"的協調請善用"},{"start":20332.98,"end":20334.98,"text":"行政院文化匯報"},{"start":20334.98,"end":20336.98,"text":"的機制進行有效的"},{"start":20336.98,"end":20338.98,"text":"跨部會協調"},{"start":20338.98,"end":20340.98,"text":"也請善用文化基本法"},{"start":20340.98,"end":20342.98,"text":"的高位授權"},{"start":20342.98,"end":20344.98,"text":"讓我們能夠有"},{"start":20344.98,"end":20346.98,"text":"底氣去跟各部會"},{"start":20346.98,"end":20348.98,"text":"來配合"},{"start":20348.98,"end":20350.98,"text":"文化發展基金我知道"},{"start":20350.98,"end":20352.98,"text":"非常難當初催生"},{"start":20352.98,"end":20354.98,"text":"它就很難但是完成了"},{"start":20354.98,"end":20356.98,"text":"現在要協調的"},{"start":20356.98,"end":20358.98,"text":"跨部會就是"},{"start":20358.98,"end":20360.98,"text":"主計總處"},{"start":20361.02,"end":20363.02,"text":"當然數發部也會搶預算"},{"start":20363.02,"end":20365.02,"text":"5G市照的這個"},{"start":20365.02,"end":20367.02,"text":"那個費用"},{"start":20367.02,"end":20369.02,"text":"但是主計總處是我們"},{"start":20369.02,"end":20371.02,"text":"文化匯報的當然成員我希望"},{"start":20371.02,"end":20373.02,"text":"部長不要放棄努力"},{"start":20374.04,"end":20376.04,"text":"我也會持續努力"},{"start":20376.04,"end":20378.04,"text":"大家都在搶裁員"},{"start":20378.04,"end":20380.04,"text":"文化不能輸"},{"start":20379.87,"end":20381.87,"text":"然後在博物館"},{"start":20381.87,"end":20383.87,"text":"的那個部分博物館"},{"s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22 22"},{"start":20546.87,"end":20548.87,"text":"23 24 25 27 28"},{"start":20548.87,"end":20550.87,"text":"29 33"},{"start":20550.87,"end":20552.87,"text":"1還有26"},{"start":20552.87,"end":20556.87,"text":"3233334536373839"},{"start":20556.87,"end":20558.87,"text":"處理上個案"},{"start":20559.96,"end":20561.96,"text":"本幕有沒有委員要提案"},{"start":20561.96,"end":20563.96,"text":"簡略凍結"},{"start":20565.59,"end":20567.59,"text":"好沒有那我們就預算招列"},{"start":20567.59,"end":20569.59,"text":"接著處理第三幕"},{"start":20569.59,"end":20571.59,"text":"文化資源業務"},{"start":20571.59,"end":20573.59,"text":"提案號第41案至"},{"start":20573.59,"end":20575.59,"text":"53案但是呢"},{"start":20575.59,"end":20577.59,"text":"只有13案喔"},{"start":20577.59,"end":20579.59,"text":"所以請問是否就不要分解"},{"start":20579.59,"end":20581.59,"text":"整幕一併處理"},{"start":20583.24,"end":20585.24,"text":"好同意喔"},{"start":20585.24,"end":20587.24,"text":"那我們就我看一下"},{"start":20591.65,"end":20593.65,"text":"這樣子我們就是到41到53喔"},{"start":20594.9,"end":20596.9,"text":"好麻煩大家謝謝"},{"start":20598.57,"end":20600.57,"text":"好"},{"start":20600.25,"end":20602.25,"text":"OK那我們到著來喔"},{"start":20602.25,"end":20604.25,"text":"武力化委員"},{"start":20609.28,"end":20611.28,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":20611.28,"end":20613.28,"text":"在第三幕的部分"},{"start":20613.28,"end":20615.28,"text":"我有兩案要說明"},{"start":20615.28,"end":20617.28,"text":"第44案跟第51案"},{"start":20617.28,"end":20619.28,"text":"那"},{"start":20619.28,"end":20621.28,"text":"這個部分呢可以改為"},{"start":20621.28,"end":20623.28,"text":"主決議喔"},{"start":20623.28,"end":20625.28,"text":"不過我還是說明一下"},{"start":20625.28,"end":20627.28,"text":"兩案一起講因為兩案"},{"start":20627.28,"end":20629.28,"text":"一個是營造"},{"start":20629.28,"end":20631.28,"text":"社區營造及村落文化發展"},{"start":20631.28,"end":20633.28,"text":"那另外一個是地方"},{"start":20633.28,"end":20635.28,"text":"創生文化事業發展"},{"start":20635.28,"end":20637.28,"text":"那這兩案其實最主要"},{"start":20637.28,"end":20639.28,"text":"的原因都是在關心"},{"start":20639.28,"end":20641.28,"text":"原住民族的傳統建物"},{"start":20641.28,"end":20643.28,"text":"的一個保存"},{"start":20643.28,"end":20645.28,"text":"因為過去按照我們"},{"start":20645.28,"end":20647.28,"text":"文化部文資局喔"},{"start":20647.28,"end":20649.28,"text":"通常都必須要取得"},{"start":20649.28,"end":20651.28,"text":"文資身份才有辦法"},{"start":20651.28,"end":20653.28,"text":"進行下一階段"},{"start":20653.28,"end":20655.28,"text":"的不論是人才"},{"start":20655.28,"end":20657.28,"text":"培育或者是"},{"start":20657.28,"end":20659.28,"text":"修復等等喔但是"},{"start":20659.28,"end":20661.28,"text":"我覺得這個部分對原住民族"},{"start":20661.28,"end":20663.28,"text":"來講喔因為我們的"},{"start":20663.28,"end":20665.28,"text":"建物可能於是"},{"start":20665.28,"end":20667.28,"text":"跟時間賽跑所以"},{"start":20667.28,"end":20669.28,"text":"如果要依照那樣的程序"},{"start":20669.28,"end":20671.28,"text":"就是旷日廢時緩不濟急"},{"start":20671.28,"end":20673.28,"text":"那很多都"},{"start":20673.28,"end":20675.28,"text":"因為這樣子而流失"},{"start":20675.28,"end":20677.28,"text":"所以我是覺得"},{"start":20677.28,"end":20679.28,"text":"因為我們的這些"},{"start":20679.28,"end":20681.28,"text":"傳統建物很多"},{"start":20681.28,"end":20683.28,"text":"像是台灣盧凱族"},{"start":20683.28,"end":20685.28,"text":"的石板屋它是"},{"start":20685.28,"end":20687.28,"text":"具備實際居住的"},{"start":20687.28,"end":20689.28,"text":"功能喔而且呢"},{"start":20689.28,"end":20691.28,"text":"它也保有"},{"start":20691.28,"end":20693.28,"text":"我們台灣的一個"},{"start":20693.28,"end":20695.28,"text":"建築特色不過"},{"start":20695.28,"end":20697.28,"text":"因為法令的一個沒有"},{"start":20697.28,"end":20699.28,"text":"辦法支持技術沒有"},{"start":20699.28,"end":20701.28,"text":"辦法支持經費的一個"},{"start":20701.28,"end":20703.28,"text":"沒有辦法支持"},{"start":20703.28,"end":20705.28,"text":"所以呢就很多"},{"start":20705.28,"end":20707.28,"text":"就流失所以在這個"},{"start":20707.28,"end":20709.28,"text":"地方我看到一個"},{"start":20709.28,"end":20711.28,"text":"是有原住民村落文化"},{"start":20711.28,"end":20713.28,"text":"發展計畫另外一個"},{"start":20713.28,"end":20715.28,"text":"是有文化部推動"},{"start":20715.28,"end":20717.28,"text":"博物館與地方文化"},{"start":20717.28,"end":20719.28,"text":"館發展計畫那我"},{"start":20719.28,"end":20721.28,"text":"特別是想說雖然"},{"start":20721.28,"end":20723.28,"text":"我們有這幾個計畫不具"},{"start":20723.28,"end":20725.28,"text":"文資保存的可以尋這個途徑"},{"start":20725.28,"end":20727.28,"text":"但是可能審查人員沒有"},{"start":20727.28,"end":20729.28,"text":"概念所以即便透過"},{"start":20729.28,"end":20731.28,"text":"這個去申請很多都被打"},{"start":20731.28,"end":20733.28,"text":"回票所以我還是希望"},{"start":20733.28,"end":20735.28,"text":"說如果這個計畫"},{"start":20735.28,"end":20737.28,"text":"能夠多跟審查委員溝通"},{"start":20737.28,"end":20739.28,"text":"那或者是我更希望"},{"start":20739.28,"end":20741.28,"text":"的是必須要建立一個"},{"start":20741.28,"end":20743.28,"text":"長期且穩定的補助"},{"start":20743.28,"end":20745.28,"text":"跟傳習制度"},{"start":20745.28,"end":20747.28,"text":"就這些沒有文資"},{"start":20747.28,"end":20749.28,"text":"保存身份的這些傳統"},{"start":20749.28,"end":20751.28,"text":"建物所以我特別提出"},{"start":20751.28,"end":20753.28,"text":"這樣的一個預算提案"},{"start":20753.28,"end":20755.28,"text":"那也希望能夠得到一個"},{"start":20755.28,"end":20757.28,"text":"比較完整的書面"},{"start":20757.28,"end":20759.28,"text":"報告那我這兩案都可以改"},{"start":20759.28,"end":20761.28,"text":"為主決議謝謝"},{"start":20763.63,"end":20765.63,"text":"陳培育委員"},{"start":20765.83,"end":20767.83,"text":"好謝謝主席這一幕我有兩案"},{"start":20767.83,"end":20769.83,"text":"第一個是47藝術家住村"},{"start":20769.83,"end":20771.83,"text":"大家都知道"},{"start":20771.83,"end":20773.83,"text":"其實藝術家住村"},{"start":20773.83,"end":20775.83,"text":"現在在文化部"},{"start":20775.83,"end":20777.83,"text":"橫跨兩個司"},{"start":20777.83,"end":20779.83,"text":"一個是藝發司第二個是"},{"start":20779.83,"end":20781.83,"text":"文資司來看藝發司主責"},{"start":20781.83,"end":20783.83,"text":"什麼呢主要是負責民間的"},{"start":20783.83,"end":20785.83,"text":"藝術村還有地方政府"},{"start":20785.83,"end":20787.83,"text":"如果有住村計畫"},{"start":20787.83,"end":20789.83,"text":"希望文化部給予補助還有協助"},{"start":20789.83,"end":20791.83,"text":"整體的規劃文資司"},{"start":20791.83,"end":20793.83,"text":"是負責管理公家博物館"},{"start":20793.83,"end":20795.83,"text":"或者是文資的場所像是"},{"start":20795.83,"end":20797.83,"text":"歷史建築如果一樣有住村業務"},{"start":20797.83,"end":20799.83,"text":"就歸文資司可是如果"},{"start":20799.83,"end":20801.83,"text":"講到現在這兩個司"},{"start":20801.83,"end":20803.83,"text":"對於所謂住村藝術家的"},{"start":20803.83,"end":20805.83,"text":"待遇我要說"},{"start":20805.83,"end":20807.83,"text":"比起台灣相近"},{"start":20807.83,"end":20809.83,"text":"的日韓我們真的是非常非常"},{"start":20809.83,"end":20811.83,"text":"驚人的低例如說"},{"start":20811.83,"end":20813.83,"text":"我們現在"},{"start":20813.83,"end":20815.83,"text":"可能只補助少少少少的工作費"},{"start":20815.83,"end":20817.83,"text":"甚至可能每個月"},{"start":20817.83,"end":20819.83,"text":"提供不到1萬塊甚至還有"},{"start":20819.83,"end":20821.83,"text":"一些是沒有薪水的狀況"},{"start":20821.83,"end":20823.83,"text":"而在沒有薪水的狀況同時"},{"start":20823.83,"end":20825.83,"text":"甚至還綁定藝術家"},{"start":20825.83,"end":20827.83,"text":"不得離開該管所"},{"start":20827.83,"end":20829.83,"text":"一定的時間材料費交通費"},{"start":20829.83,"end":20831.83,"text":"生活費要藝術家自掏腰包"},{"start":20831.83,"end":20833.83,"text":"更不要說其他的"},{"start":20833.83,"end":20835.83,"text":"行政協助而在這樣的"},{"start":20835.83,"end":20837.83,"text":"情況下我們甚至還要求"},{"start":20837.83,"end":20839.83,"text":"藝術家要勞動"},{"start":20839.83,"end":20841.83,"text":"除相關滿意的藝術成果"},{"start":20841.83,"end":20843.83,"text":"我會說這相當的不合理"},{"start":20843.83,"end":20845.83,"text":"我覺得要嘛就是"},{"start":20845.83,"end":20847.83,"text":"大家覺得住村藝術家的費用"},{"start":20847.83,"end":20849.83,"text":"很高大家不想辦那也就算了"},{"start":20849.83,"end":20851.83,"text":"可是辦了之後又給一個這麼低薪的狀況"},{"start":20851.83,"end":20853.83,"text":"我覺得這是一個非常荒謬的現象"},{"start":20853.83,"end":20855.83,"text":"如果來參考日韓"},{"start":20855.83,"end":20857.83,"text":"相較台灣是比較近的國家"},{"start":20857.83,"end":20859.83,"text":"他們可能會協助的有哪些"},{"start":20859.83,"end":20861.83,"text":"提供住宿"},{"start":20861.83,"end":20863.83,"text":"生活的必要津貼"},{"start":20863.83,"end":20865.83,"text":"交通費來回機票"},{"start":20865.83,"end":20867.83,"text":"創作媒材費甚至有一些還提供"},{"start":20867.83,"end":20869.83,"text":"保險翻譯創作諮詢"},{"start":20869.83,"end":20871.83,"text":"創作設備展覽空間"},{"start":20871.83,"end":20873.83,"text":"如果回到剛剛思雅委員所說的"},{"start":20873.83,"end":20875.83,"text":"很多博物館其實有機會做勸募"},{"start":20875.83,"end":20877.83,"text":"我認為我們很多公家博物館"},{"start":20877.83,"end":20879.83,"text":"或是文資場所或是這些地方的"},{"start":20879.83,"end":20881.83,"text":"住村計畫的場所"},{"start":20881.83,"end":20883.83,"text":"如果在相關住村藝術家"},{"start":20883.83,"end":20885.83,"text":"計畫推展之下"},{"start":20885.83,"end":20887.83,"text":"經費有困難也許真的"},{"start":20887.83,"end":20889.83,"text":"也可以變成一個勸募的主題"},{"start":20889.83,"end":20891.83,"text":"所以我要說在裁員"},{"start":20891.83,"end":20893.83,"text":"跟對藝術家的態度"},{"start":20893.83,"end":20895.83,"text":"跟想像的這個平衡之下"},{"start":20895.83,"end":20897.83,"text":"如何發展出更好的藝術家"},{"start":20897.83,"end":20899.83,"text":"住村計畫我覺得是文化部"},{"start":20899.83,"end":20901.83,"text":"非常重要的業務進度"},{"start":20901.83,"end":20903.83,"text":"我們也希望可以持續跟文化部對話"},{"start":20903.83,"end":20905.83,"text":"再來"},{"start":20905.83,"end":20907.83,"text":"再來5322是兒童未來館"},{"start":20907.83,"end":20909.83,"text":"其實從籌備處"},{"start":20909.83,"end":20911.83,"text":"開始到目前這幾年"},{"start":20911.83,"end":20913.83,"text":"我們知道籌備處已經辦了"},{"start":20913.83,"end":20915.83,"text":"14場兒童座談會、諮詢會、工作方式集"},{"start":20915.83,"end":20917.83,"text":"可是目前我們看到"},{"start":20917.83,"end":20919.83,"text":"都比較是單點單點性的"},{"start":20919.83,"end":20921.83,"text":"或者是單項的場館宣導"},{"start":20921.83,"end":20923.83,"text":"可是對於國家兒童未來館"},{"start":20923.83,"end":20925.83,"text":"目前自己的發展定位跟願景"},{"start":20925.83,"end":20927.83,"text":"我們其實還是看不到"},{"start":20927.83,"end":20929.83,"text":"一個比較具體的內容"},{"start":20929.83,"end":20931.83,"text":"可是看著這個硬體建築逐漸完成"},{"start":20931.83,"end":20933.83,"text":"到底對於博物館的"},{"start":20933.83,"end":20935.83,"text":"核心任務到底有哪些"},{"start":20935.83,"end":20937.83,"text":"而核心任務裡面還要包含"},{"start":20937.83,"end":20939.83,"text":"典藏、還要包含跟社會溝通"},{"start":20939.83,"end":20941.83,"text":"還有包含歷史跟願景的"},{"start":20941.83,"end":20943.83,"text":"想像"},{"start":20943.83,"end":20945.83,"text":"還有如何跟社區共融這件事情"},{"start":20945.83,"end":20947.83,"text":"有太多太多的觀點"},{"start":20947.83,"end":20949.83,"text":"我們都一直看不到"},{"start":20949.83,"end":20951.83,"text":"國家兒童未來館有比較長矩的進步"},{"start":20951.83,"end":20953.83,"text":"我們還是很擔心"},{"start":20953.83,"end":20955.83,"text":"所以我還是希望持續監督在兒童未來館"},{"start":20955.83,"end":20957.83,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":20957.83,"end":20959.83,"text":"希望文化部在這個部分"},{"start":20959.83,"end":20961.83,"text":"真的要持續的加油"},{"start":20962.01,"end":20964.01,"text":"這兩個案子我就併動"},{"start":20964.87,"end":20966.87,"text":"阿烏培委員"},{"start":20968.19,"end":20970.19,"text":"好這一幕我的提案是"},{"start":20970.19,"end":20972.19,"text":"43、50跟52"},{"start":20972.19,"end":20974.19,"text":"那我就就前兩案來說明"},{"start":20974.19,"end":20976.19,"text":"第一個是這個在質詢的時候"},{"start":20976.19,"end":20978.19,"text":"我有很關切的百大文化基地"},{"start":20978.19,"end":20980.19,"text":"這個我們是第一期舉辦"},{"start":20980.19,"end":20982.19,"text":"那也很感謝在台北市的七個基地當中"},{"start":20982.19,"end":20984.19,"text":"有三處是在我的選區"},{"start":20984.19,"end":20986.19,"text":"中正萬華區"},{"start":20986.19,"end":20988.19,"text":"所以我們就特別來關心說我們這個"},{"start":20988.19,"end":20990.19,"text":"執行的幫助"},{"start":20990.19,"end":20992.19,"text":"那我是還是有一點要提醒"},{"start":20992.19,"end":20994.19,"text":"因為我們選這種這個基地以我的這個選區為例"},{"start":20994.19,"end":20996.19,"text":"三個當中有一個是公立的"},{"start":20996.19,"end":20998.19,"text":"一個就是市政府文化局的"},{"start":20998.19,"end":21000.19,"text":"然後轄下的一個是民間的"},{"start":21000.19,"end":21002.19,"text":"像這個小劇場那有一個是OT"},{"start":21002.19,"end":21004.19,"text":"叫古嶺街小劇場是雖然市立場館"},{"start":21004.19,"end":21006.19,"text":"但是民間團隊在營運"},{"start":21006.19,"end":21008.19,"text":"因為我們補助的經費是兩年五十萬"},{"start":21008.19,"end":21010.19,"text":"其實我看起來"},{"start":21010.19,"end":21012.19,"text":"就是如果對於本來市府文化局"},{"start":21012.19,"end":21014.19,"text":"轄下場館來說其實兩年五十萬"},{"start":21014.19,"end":21016.19,"text":"跟他們的業務經費"},{"start":21016.19,"end":21018.19,"text":"比起來其實不算是一個就是說"},{"start":21018.19,"end":21020.19,"text":"不算是一個非常大的幫助"},{"start":21020.19,"end":21022.19,"text":"很錦上添花但是對民間團隊"},{"start":21022.19,"end":21024.19,"text":"來講兩年五十萬可能就是很大的"},{"start":21024.19,"end":21026.19,"text":"幫助所以還是希望說未來我們在選文化"},{"start":21026.19,"end":21028.19,"text":"基地的時候可以就這個資源的投入"},{"start":21028.19,"end":21030.19,"text":"也可以納入評估"},{"start":21030.19,"end":21032.19,"text":"對民間團體這可能是很大的"},{"start":21032.19,"end":21034.19,"text":"一筆注意"},{"start":21034.19,"end":21036.19,"text":"那第二個是我們的計畫我們也希望說"},{"start":21036.19,"end":21038.19,"text":"這個行政院很很支持"},{"start":21038.19,"end":21040.19,"text":"希望可以跟觀光署"},{"start":21040.19,"end":21042.19,"text":"可以來合作把文化基地"},{"start":21042.19,"end":21044.19,"text":"也可以來去推廣他的觀光"},{"start":21044.19,"end":21046.19,"text":"那這一點我覺得就要再多加強了"},{"start":21046.19,"end":21048.19,"text":"因為我們文化部有一個文化地圖網站"},{"start":21048.19,"end":21050.19,"text":"之前是很久都沒有更新"},{"start":21050.19,"end":21052.19,"text":"最近開始在維護"},{"start":21052.19,"end":21054.19,"text":"但是我們現在看起來我們這個觀光"},{"start":21054.19,"end":21056.19,"text":"因為我們請地方政府要提出這個路線"},{"start":21056.19,"end":21058.19,"text":"大部分的資訊都是在網站上面去呈現"},{"start":21058.19,"end":21060.19,"text":"這個部分是不是交通部觀光署"},{"start":21060.19,"end":21062.19,"text":"跟我們文化部的協作"},{"start":21062.19,"end":21064.19,"text":"還要再多加強"},{"start":21064.19,"end":21066.19,"text":"因為很像以我們台北市這些點都很好"},{"start":21066.19,"end":21068.19,"text":"都真的很有觀光的潛力"},{"start":21068.19,"end":21070.19,"text":"希望要來多加強"},{"start":21070.19,"end":21072.19,"text":"第二個五十案是"},{"start":21072.19,"end":21074.19,"text":"這個我們台灣建築文化中心"},{"start":21074.19,"end":21076.19,"text":"這也是過去思想委員很關心"},{"start":21076.19,"end":21078.19,"text":"支持的"},{"start":21078.19,"end":21080.19,"text":"那我們現在未來希望活化地點選擇"},{"start":21080.19,"end":21082.19,"text":"正好就是昭和樓"},{"start":21082.19,"end":21084.19,"text":"那昭和樓是我過去"},{"start":21084.19,"end":21086.19,"text":"我是這個文資的提報人"},{"start":21086.19,"end":21088.19,"text":"當時我是提報人"},{"start":21088.19,"end":21090.19,"text":"所以有關於昭和樓後來被審定為文資"},{"start":21090.19,"end":21092.19,"text":"然後他後續的活化使用"},{"start":21092.19,"end":21094.19,"text":"我真的非常關切"},{"start":21094.19,"end":21096.19,"text":"所以本來一度有跟你們討論"},{"start":21096.19,"end":21098.19,"text":"那現在既然已經選定是建築文化中心了"},{"start":21098.19,"end":21100.19,"text":"我就希望說我們關於未來的規劃"},{"start":21100.19,"end":21102.19,"text":"包含人力等等"},{"start":21102.19,"end":21104.19,"text":"要提早來準備"},{"start":21104.19,"end":21106.19,"text":"那這個部分未來是台博基金"},{"start":21106.19,"end":21108.19,"text":"是主體"},{"start":21108.19,"end":21110.19,"text":"那如果有需要的資源"},{"start":21110.19,"end":21112.19,"text":"要請文化部要來支持"},{"start":21112.19,"end":21114.19,"text":"以上說明,謝謝"},{"start":21113.82,"end":21115.82,"text":"歐呆"},{"start":21116.32,"end":21118.32,"text":"再說吧委員"},{"start":21120.66,"end":21122.66,"text":"謝謝主席,我在這邊的案子是第46案"},{"start":21122.66,"end":21124.66,"text":"46案的部分呢"},{"start":21124.66,"end":21126.66,"text":"是博物館事業推展的這個業務"},{"start":21126.66,"end":21128.66,"text":"文化部"},{"start":21128.66,"end":21130.66,"text":"詳細的博物館許多場館是免費的"},{"start":21130.66,"end":21132.66,"text":"入場,但是如果博物館"},{"start":21132.66,"end":21134.66,"text":"他是有套展的時候呢"},{"start":21134.66,"end":21136.66,"text":"是通常是另外需要收費"},{"start":21136.66,"end":21138.66,"text":"那麼如果是有育兒的"},{"start":21138.66,"end":21140.66,"text":"家庭,就是爸爸媽媽"},{"start":21140.66,"end":21142.66,"text":"帶著兩個小孩,三個小孩,這樣單次入場"},{"start":21142.66,"end":21144.66,"text":"花費可能都超過千元"},{"start":21144.66,"end":21146.66,"text":"這也是一個蠻大的負擔"},{"start":21146.66,"end":21148.66,"text":"所以我這邊提這個案子是想要"},{"start":21148.66,"end":21150.66,"text":"希望說文化部你們來研議"},{"start":21150.66,"end":21152.66,"text":"對於育兒家庭是不是有更友善的"},{"start":21152.66,"end":21154.66,"text":"一些相關的措施"},{"start":21154.66,"end":21156.66,"text":"除了票價之外"},{"start":21156.66,"end":21158.66,"text":"就是也希望說我們在"},{"start":21158.66,"end":21160.66,"text":"場館內會設置一些適合"},{"start":21160.66,"end":21162.66,"text":"兒上使用的場域"},{"start":21162.66,"end":21164.66,"text":"我們要有,就是除了有友善"},{"start":21164.66,"end":21166.66,"text":"育兒家庭的這個票價"},{"start":21166.66,"end":21168.66,"text":"的方案之外,我們"},{"start":21169.44,"end":21171.44,"text":"在我們的設施就是"},{"start":21171.44,"end":21173.44,"text":"兒子,兒童及"},{"start":21173.44,"end":21175.44,"text":"親子,觀眾"},{"start":21175.44,"end":21177.44,"text":"如果有這樣子主要"},{"start":21177.44,"end":21179.44,"text":"服務對象的展示空間"},{"start":21179.44,"end":21181.44,"text":"比較有多感官互動的這個體驗設施"},{"start":21181.44,"end":21183.44,"text":"也會比較"},{"start":21183.44,"end":21185.44,"text":"讓家長願意帶孩子"},{"start":21185.44,"end":21187.44,"text":"來參展,來互動"},{"start":21188.49,"end":21190.49,"text":"我們也透過這樣多元探索的方式"},{"start":21190.49,"end":21192.49,"text":"來引導兒上學習"},{"start":21192.49,"end":21194.49,"text":"所以這個部分我希望文化部能夠持續"},{"start":21194.49,"end":21196.49,"text":"推廣設置友善兒童的這個空間"},{"start":21196.49,"end":21198.49,"text":"而且我希望你們可以"},{"start":21198.49,"end":21200.49,"text":"統整目前"},{"start":21200.49,"end":21202.49,"text":"文化部想要下場館的這個"},{"start":21202.49,"end":21204.49,"text":"所有的兒上設置"},{"start":21204.49,"end":21206.49,"text":"設置的設置情況"},{"start":21206.49,"end":21208.49,"text":"以及有一些場館"},{"start":21208.49,"end":21210.49,"text":"可能在這三方面的設施"},{"start":21210.49,"end":21212.49,"text":"比較缺乏的話"},{"start":21212.49,"end":21214.49,"text":"未來你們規劃"},{"start":21214.49,"end":21216.49,"text":"設置的這個期程"},{"start":21216.49,"end":21218.49,"text":"那我想這個"},{"start":21218.49,"end":21220.49,"text":"關於票價的這個"},{"start":21220.49,"end":21222.49,"text":"友善的方案"},{"start":21222.49,"end":21224.49,"text":"可以從很多方面去規劃"},{"start":21224.49,"end":21226.49,"text":"例如說"},{"start":21226.49,"end":21228.49,"text":"如果是家庭爸爸媽媽帶小孩"},{"start":21228.49,"end":21230.49,"text":"帶一個小孩,帶兩個小孩"},{"start":21230.49,"end":21232.49,"text":"甚至帶三個小孩以上"},{"start":21232.49,"end":21234.49,"text":"打的折數會越來越高"},{"start":21234.49,"end":21236.49,"text":"這樣才是,第一個我們也友善就是說"},{"start":21236.49,"end":21238.49,"text":"這個我們"},{"start":21238.49,"end":21240.49,"text":"鼓勵說家長他們願意"},{"start":21240.49,"end":21242.49,"text":"孕育子女,然後一起帶子女來看"},{"start":21242.49,"end":21244.49,"text":"所以在這個"},{"start":21244.49,"end":21246.49,"text":"票價的方案上面我希望說你們"},{"start":21246.49,"end":21248.49,"text":"可以為這種這樣"},{"start":21248.49,"end":21250.49,"text":"就是有家裡面有小孩的"},{"start":21250.49,"end":21252.49,"text":"這樣的家庭去做考量"},{"start":21252.49,"end":21254.49,"text":"那這等一下請你們說明一下,好謝謝"},{"start":21258.14,"end":21260.14,"text":"好,無視要委員"},{"start":21261.19,"end":21263.19,"text":"好,我有四個案喔,很簡單的報告"},{"start":21263.19,"end":21265.19,"text":"四十二案"},{"start":21265.19,"end":21267.19,"text":"部長我會非常重視"},{"start":21267.19,"end":21269.19,"text":"好多案都是博物館的事情"},{"start":21269.19,"end":21271.19,"text":"是因為我們好不容易去年"},{"start":21271.19,"end":21273.19,"text":"七月公告的博物館政策白皮書"},{"start":21273.19,"end":21275.19,"text":"我都是針對"},{"start":21275.19,"end":21277.19,"text":"這個白皮書裡頭的執行"},{"start":21277.19,"end":21279.19,"text":"有沒有到位提出我的監督跟提醒"},{"start":21279.19,"end":21281.19,"text":"四十二案就聚焦在"},{"start":21281.19,"end":21283.19,"text":"依據國務"},{"start":21283.19,"end":21285.19,"text":"對不起,ICOM"},{"start":21285.19,"end":21287.19,"text":"國際博物館協會的"},{"start":21287.77,"end":21289.77,"text":"世界各國都在做博物館的倫理規範"},{"start":21289.77,"end":21291.77,"text":"好,那台灣"},{"start":21291.77,"end":21293.77,"text":"目前唯一在做的"},{"start":21293.77,"end":21295.77,"text":"我看到的是台南市立美術館"},{"start":21297.24,"end":21299.24,"text":"它有從業人員的倫理守則"},{"start":21299.24,"end":21301.24,"text":"那是我們的一個"},{"start":21301.24,"end":21303.24,"text":"可以來學習的對象"},{"start":21303.24,"end":21305.24,"text":"所以說我們轄下的這些"},{"start":21305.24,"end":21307.24,"text":"管社都還沒有相關的"},{"start":21307.24,"end":21309.24,"text":"倫理守則的研議"},{"start":21309.24,"end":21311.24,"text":"請部長來督促"},{"start":21311.24,"end":21313.24,"text":"這是第四十二案"},{"start":21313.24,"end":21315.24,"text":"那第四十五案呢"},{"start":21315.24,"end":21317.24,"text":"也是提醒喔"},{"start":21317.24,"end":21319.24,"text":"博物館法二零一五年"},{"start":21319.24,"end":21321.24,"text":"修到現在其實是"},{"start":21321.24,"end":21323.24,"text":"十一年了"},{"start":21323.06,"end":21325.06,"text":"那剛剛講的依據博物館法"},{"start":21325.06,"end":21327.06,"text":"要每四年提出博物館"},{"start":21327.06,"end":21329.06,"text":"政策白皮書,但是我們都有所拖延"},{"start":21329.06,"end":21331.06,"text":"還有我們必須依法"},{"start":21331.06,"end":21333.06,"text":"來辦理全國博物館論壇"},{"start":21333.06,"end":21335.06,"text":"上一次的全國博物館論壇"},{"start":21335.06,"end":21337.06,"text":"到現在已經七年了"},{"start":21337.06,"end":21339.06,"text":"我也認為應當"},{"start":21339.06,"end":21341.06,"text":"更進一步的跟博物館界"},{"start":21341.06,"end":21343.06,"text":"的專業人士、文化人來對話"},{"start":21343.06,"end":21345.06,"text":"所以這是我的提醒"},{"start":21345.06,"end":21347.06,"text":"在第四十五案"},{"start":21347.06,"end":21349.06,"text":"然後後面呢,我第四十八案"},{"start":21349.06,"end":21351.06,"text":"因為故宮喔"},{"start":21351.06,"end":21353.06,"text":"因為故宮喔,的國保館"},{"start":21353.06,"end":21355.06,"text":"它有一個很大的功能"},{"start":21355.06,"end":21357.06,"text":"就是對於文資修復"},{"start":21357.06,"end":21359.06,"text":"的跨管設的服務"},{"start":21359.06,"end":21361.06,"text":"我也希望文化部"},{"start":21361.06,"end":21363.06,"text":"能夠強化跟故宮"},{"start":21363.06,"end":21367.06,"text":"善用這個故宮國保館的硬體跟軟體"},{"start":21367.06,"end":21369.06,"text":"跟最新的技術"},{"start":21369.06,"end":21371.06,"text":"一起來研商"},{"start":21371.06,"end":21373.06,"text":"建置一個國家級的"},{"start":21373.06,"end":21375.06,"text":"文資修復及人才培育的基地"},{"start":21375.06,"end":21377.06,"text":"這個一樣"},{"start":21377.06,"end":21379.06,"text":"我們應當跟故宮來合作"},{"start":21379.06,"end":21381.06,"text":"那第四十九案"},{"start":21381.06,"end":21383.06,"text":"就是台灣建築博物館"},{"start":21383.06,"end":21385.06,"text":"或是建築文化中心"},{"start":21385.06,"end":21387.06,"text":"那已經推了十年"},{"start":21387.06,"end":21389.06,"text":"我第一次質詢是"},{"start":21389.06,"end":21391.06,"text":"二零一七年到現在"},{"start":21391.06,"end":21393.06,"text":"真的是十年了"},{"start":21393.06,"end":21395.06,"text":"我知道大家都在努力"},{"start":21395.06,"end":21397.06,"text":"我也開了幾十場會議"},{"start":21397.06,"end":21399.06,"text":"最後的一哩路"},{"start":21399.06,"end":21401.06,"text":"不管是選址相對的明確了"},{"start":21401.06,"end":21403.06,"text":"但是它運作的方式跟機制"},{"start":21403.06,"end":21405.06,"text":"我們還是不放棄啦"},{"start":21405.06,"end":21407.06,"text":"我也相信會做出"},{"start":21407.06,"end":21409.06,"text":"很好的成績"},{"start":21409.06,"end":21411.06,"text":"我最近跟一些國際的"},{"start":21411.06,"end":21413.06,"text":"建築界的朋友"},{"start":21413.06,"end":21415.06,"text":"互動他們都非常給予高度的期待"},{"start":21415.06,"end":21417.06,"text":"所以我這四個案子"},{"start":21417.06,"end":21419.06,"text":"我提出我的提醒"},{"start":21419.06,"end":21421.06,"text":"那等一下看看大家"},{"start":21421.06,"end":21423.06,"text":"有要病動嗎"},{"start":21423.06,"end":21425.06,"text":"再做最後的處置謝謝"},{"start":21427.38,"end":21429.38,"text":"好,那委員的發言完畢"},{"start":21429.38,"end":21431.38,"text":"請主管機關回答"},{"start":21432.91,"end":21434.91,"text":"有關武力華委員"},{"start":21434.91,"end":21436.91,"text":"關心英明忘記記憶傳承"},{"start":21436.91,"end":21438.91,"text":"這個部分我們會在"},{"start":21438.91,"end":21440.91,"text":"我們公告的時候我們會去輔導"},{"start":21440.91,"end":21442.91,"text":"我們部落來做相關的申請"},{"start":21442.91,"end":21444.91,"text":"那這部分會盡量來努力"},{"start":21444.91,"end":21446.91,"text":"那關於百拉基地區我們"},{"start":21446.91,"end":21448.91,"text":"跟觀光署其實一直都密切的合作"},{"start":21448.91,"end":21450.91,"text":"那包括其他部會"},{"start":21450.91,"end":21452.91,"text":"包括環境部會、農業部會"},{"start":21452.91,"end":21454.91,"text":"其實我們都一直經營努力"},{"start":21454.91,"end":21456.91,"text":"而且跟縣市政府也經營努力在做串聯"},{"start":21456.91,"end":21458.91,"text":"做相關的行銷推廣"},{"start":21458.91,"end":21460.91,"text":"讓百拉基農園更容易被清淨"},{"start":21460.91,"end":21462.91,"text":"那陳憲法委員說了"},{"start":21462.91,"end":21464.91,"text":"其實我們各博物館"},{"start":21464.91,"end":21466.91,"text":"都基於建構友善兒童的設施"},{"start":21466.91,"end":21468.91,"text":"包括科技的引入"},{"start":21468.91,"end":21470.91,"text":"那至於票價友善的部分"},{"start":21470.91,"end":21472.91,"text":"可能要針對不同的特產"},{"start":21472.91,"end":21474.91,"text":"可能再去規劃相關的比較友善的"},{"start":21474.91,"end":21476.91,"text":"一個家庭投票"},{"start":21476.91,"end":21478.91,"text":"這個部分可能我們會陸續"},{"start":21478.91,"end":21480.91,"text":"朝這個方向來做努力"},{"start":21480.91,"end":21482.91,"text":"那有關於博物館"},{"start":21482.91,"end":21484.91,"text":"包括我們的"},{"start":21485.54,"end":21487.54,"text":"那個建築博物館也好"},{"start":21487.54,"end":21489.54,"text":"為什麼其實這個部分其實都會配合"},{"start":21489.54,"end":21491.54,"text":"台博館也好跟"},{"start":21491.54,"end":21493.54,"text":"建築基金會來做相關的"},{"start":21493.54,"end":21495.54,"text":"一個經費上的爭取跟努力"},{"start":21501.09,"end":21503.09,"text":"接續的回應沒關係"},{"start":21504.41,"end":21506.41,"text":"還是都回應完了"},{"start":21509.57,"end":21511.57,"text":"同意市長回答"},{"start":21511.84,"end":21513.84,"text":"這麼多委員只有一個市長"},{"start":21513.84,"end":21515.84,"text":"待會就不要再看我了"},{"start":21515.84,"end":21517.84,"text":"你們就是一個部會自己轉交麥克風"},{"start":21517.84,"end":21519.84,"text":"就直接回答好不好"},{"start":21519.84,"end":21521.84,"text":"有關陳培育委員"},{"start":21521.84,"end":21523.84,"text":"關心住村的部分的事情"},{"start":21523.84,"end":21525.84,"text":"那我們"},{"start":21525.84,"end":21527.84,"text":"在住村的部分"},{"start":21527.84,"end":21529.84,"text":"除了我們有要求民間團隊"},{"start":21529.84,"end":21531.84,"text":"他們自己所經營的"},{"start":21531.84,"end":21533.84,"text":"藝術村"},{"start":21533.84,"end":21535.84,"text":"要提供基本的"},{"start":21535.84,"end":21537.84,"text":"這個零用金的費用"},{"start":21537.84,"end":21539.84,"text":"以及一些創作的費用之外"},{"start":21539.84,"end":21541.84,"text":"我們在我們自己扶植的"},{"start":21541.84,"end":21543.84,"text":"送我們的藝術家"},{"start":21543.84,"end":21545.84,"text":"到國外的"},{"start":21545.84,"end":21547.84,"text":"這個住村到國外的藝術村"},{"start":21547.84,"end":21549.84,"text":"去住村的時候我們給的藝術家"},{"start":21549.84,"end":21551.84,"text":"的這個費用"},{"start":21551.84,"end":21553.84,"text":"也會同步的去"},{"start":21553.84,"end":21555.84,"text":"調整經驗度會來提高"},{"start":21555.84,"end":21557.84,"text":"一些些的經費"},{"start":21557.84,"end":21559.84,"text":"各館所提的"},{"start":21559.84,"end":21561.84,"text":"住村的計畫的部分因為各館"},{"start":21561.84,"end":21563.84,"text":"他們對於住村的性質"},{"start":21563.84,"end":21565.84,"text":"以及辦理目的"},{"start":21565.84,"end":21567.84,"text":"有的都不太一樣"},{"start":21567.84,"end":21569.84,"text":"所以他們所提供的"},{"start":21569.84,"end":21571.84,"text":"資源有的會是生活費"},{"start":21571.84,"end":21573.84,"text":"有的會是創作材料費"},{"start":21573.84,"end":21575.84,"text":"會有一點點不同"},{"start":21575.84,"end":21577.84,"text":"為了維護藝術家的權益我們也有"},{"start":21577.84,"end":21579.84,"text":"要求各館都要以"},{"start":21579.84,"end":21581.84,"text":"國家級的定位來思考"},{"start":21581.84,"end":21583.84,"text":"住村計畫所辦的宗旨"},{"start":21583.84,"end":21585.84,"text":"跟他們的對象"},{"start":21585.84,"end":21587.84,"text":"除了希望他們能夠"},{"start":21587.84,"end":21589.84,"text":"定期檢視住村的這個條件"},{"start":21589.84,"end":21591.84,"text":"之外有關甄選辦法"},{"start":21591.84,"end":21593.84,"text":"相關的配套措施"},{"start":21593.84,"end":21595.84,"text":"也都希望他們能夠滾動式的"},{"start":21595.84,"end":21597.84,"text":"調整"},{"start":21597.84,"end":21599.84,"text":"希望可以符合藝術家實際需求"},{"start":21599.84,"end":21601.84,"text":"跟回應外界的期待"},{"start":21601.84,"end":21603.84,"text":"謝謝委員的關心"},{"start":21606.47,"end":21608.47,"text":"有關於第53案"},{"start":21608.47,"end":21610.47,"text":"兒童博物館的部分"},{"start":21610.47,"end":21612.47,"text":"我先報告一下"},{"start":21612.47,"end":21614.47,"text":"簡單回答一下"},{"start":21614.47,"end":21616.47,"text":"有關於那個典藏的部分"},{"start":21616.47,"end":21618.47,"text":"我們是一個以非物件導向的"},{"start":21618.47,"end":21620.47,"text":"一個博物館"},{"start":21620.47,"end":21622.47,"text":"所以我們是規劃以教育取向的"},{"start":21622.47,"end":21624.47,"text":"收藏所以未來我們會持續"},{"start":21624.47,"end":21626.47,"text":"配合我們的展示的發展"},{"start":21626.47,"end":21628.47,"text":"會開始做我們的收藏"},{"start":21628.47,"end":21630.47,"text":"的部分"},{"start":21630.47,"end":21632.47,"text":"那有關教育活動的部分我們未來會持續"},{"start":21632.47,"end":21634.47,"text":"按照跟著我們的定位"},{"start":21634.47,"end":21636.47,"text":"去做社會溝通跟觀眾理解"},{"start":21636.47,"end":21638.47,"text":"跟使用者需求的需求"},{"start":21638.47,"end":21640.47,"text":"最後在專業人員的部分"},{"start":21640.47,"end":21642.47,"text":"我們目前已經"},{"start":21642.2,"end":21644.2,"text":"確實已經有跟各大學的"},{"start":21644.2,"end":21646.2,"text":"的教育"},{"start":21646.2,"end":21648.2,"text":"教育機構例如像"},{"start":21648.2,"end":21650.2,"text":"清大的教育教育學院"},{"start":21650.2,"end":21652.2,"text":"來做相關的合作的關係"},{"start":21652.2,"end":21654.2,"text":"未來也就是在兒童發展"},{"start":21654.2,"end":21656.2,"text":"的部分他會給我們很有力的支持"},{"start":21656.2,"end":21658.2,"text":"所以謝謝委員的"},{"start":21658.2,"end":21660.2,"text":"督促我們會持續的努力謝謝"},{"start":21665.4,"end":21667.4,"text":"好我們現在處理"},{"start":21668.57,"end":21670.57,"text":"我41案是改組決議"},{"start":21670.57,"end":21672.57,"text":"那請委員提案要凍結"},{"start":21672.57,"end":21674.57,"text":"多少還是要三列多少"},{"start":21676.97,"end":21678.97,"text":"不好意思我稍微加快一些"},{"start":21678.97,"end":21680.97,"text":"請大家就直接說"},{"start":21680.97,"end":21682.97,"text":"那我的四個案我"},{"start":21683.2,"end":21685.2,"text":"你們還是要補一些書面資料給我好嗎"},{"start":21685.2,"end":21687.2,"text":"因為剛剛的回答實在是"},{"start":21687.2,"end":21689.2,"text":"太簡略了"},{"start":21689.33,"end":21691.33,"text":"我的四個案改組決議"},{"start":21692.96,"end":21694.96,"text":"我的案子呢"},{"start":21694.96,"end":21696.96,"text":"我希望你們我剛剛講的就是說"},{"start":21696.96,"end":21698.96,"text":"你們相關的這個兒童設施設置情況"},{"start":21698.96,"end":21700.96,"text":"以及你們未來規劃設置的這個部分"},{"start":21700.96,"end":21702.96,"text":"要一份給我"},{"start":21702.96,"end":21704.96,"text":"資料給我那我這份也可以改組決議"},{"start":21706.78,"end":21708.78,"text":"好其他還沒改組決議的委員"},{"start":21708.78,"end":21710.78,"text":"有一見嗎"},{"start":21711.45,"end":21713.45,"text":"沒有意見要提案嗎"},{"start":21718.2,"end":21720.2,"text":"沒關係啊你們提的"},{"start":21720.55,"end":21722.55,"text":"好"},{"start":21735.62,"end":21737.62,"text":"改組決議41 42 45 46"},{"start":21738.99,"end":21740.99,"text":"48 49 44 44 51"},{"start":21742.5,"end":21744.5,"text":"我43"},{"start":21744.96,"end":21746.96,"text":"改組決議"},{"start":21746.96,"end":21748.96,"text":"出以上"},{"start":21748.96,"end":21750.96,"text":"43跟50我是凍結20萬跟凍結10萬"},{"start":21750.96,"end":21752.96,"text":"那我也改組決議"},{"start":21754.55,"end":21756.55,"text":"43 50"},{"start":21756.55,"end":21758.55,"text":"改組決議好其他預算照列"},{"start":21758.55,"end":21760.55,"text":"接著處理第四幕文化創意"},{"start":21760.55,"end":21762.55,"text":"產業發展業務"},{"start":21762.55,"end":21764.55,"text":"提案號第54到89案"},{"start":21764.64,"end":21766.64,"text":"對不起"},{"start":21766.14,"end":21768.14,"text":"你們要換位置我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":21768.14,"end":21770.14,"text":"好不好謝謝"},{"start":21773.48,"end":21775.48,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":21780.03,"end":21782.03,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":21787.49,"end":21789.49,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":21789.83,"end":21791.83,"text":"第二是化庫會"},{"start":21791.83,"end":21793.83,"text":"我們都把自己公司都弄小"},{"start":21793.83,"end":21795.83,"text":"公司嗎"},{"start":21795.83,"end":21797.83,"text":"不知道啊就要鬧了"},{"start":21797.83,"end":21799.83,"text":"因為我怕他們是不是要刪"},{"start":21799.83,"end":21801.83,"text":"因為裴雲裴雲呢"},{"start":21801.83,"end":21803.83,"text":"沒有他說公司那個啊"},{"start":21803.83,"end":21805.83,"text":"我在猜他們誰是誰要刪"},{"start":21805.83,"end":21807.83,"text":"他們是小公司那些都要刪"},{"start":21807.83,"end":21809.83,"text":"是不是"},{"start":21809.83,"end":21811.83,"text":"公司的那個是哪一個提案"},{"start":21811.83,"end":21813.83,"text":"是不是"},{"start":21813.83,"end":21815.83,"text":"121 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t":"因此在這邊"},{"start":22496.16,"end":22498.16,"text":"文策院執行國發"},{"start":22498.16,"end":22500.16,"text":"基金文化投資"},{"start":22500.16,"end":22502.16,"text":"有幾個問題"},{"start":22502.16,"end":22504.16,"text":"巨額預算沒有效果"},{"start":22504.16,"end":22506.16,"text":"同樣的人反覆拿補助"},{"start":22506.16,"end":22508.16,"text":"投資欠把關這樣的爭議"},{"start":22508.16,"end":22510.16,"text":"今天我覺得文化部必須"},{"start":22510.16,"end":22512.16,"text":"要深刻的檢討"},{"start":22512.16,"end":22514.16,"text":"跟深刻的反省"},{"start":22514.16,"end":22516.16,"text":"因此在這邊我"},{"start":22516.16,"end":22518.16,"text":"提案就是凍結"},{"start":22518.16,"end":22520.16,"text":"20%"},{"start":22520.16,"end":22522.16,"text":"但是剛剛跟這個"},{"start":22522.16,"end":22524.16,"text":"部長有溝通過"},{"start":22524.16,"end":22526.16,"text":"待會想聽一下部長怎麼回答這個問題"},{"start":22526.16,"end":22528.16,"text":"我們再來看怎麼處理這個案子"},{"start":22528.16,"end":22530.16,"text":"以上"},{"start":22529.6,"end":22531.6,"text":"好,那這個待會我也要講"},{"start":22531.6,"end":22533.6,"text":"這一案,那我們先繼續"},{"start":22533.6,"end":22535.6,"text":"依序往下,我是藥委員"},{"start":22537.04,"end":22539.04,"text":"好,謝主席"},{"start":22539.04,"end":22541.04,"text":"這一科目我們在審議的是"},{"start":22541.04,"end":22543.04,"text":"文化創意產業發展業務"},{"start":22543.04,"end":22545.04,"text":"那我有五個提案"},{"start":22545.04,"end":22547.04,"text":"但我都會聚焦在同樣的一個思維"},{"start":22547.04,"end":22549.04,"text":"下,就是如何有效的"},{"start":22549.04,"end":22551.04,"text":"透過政策的導入"},{"start":22551.04,"end":22553.04,"text":"讓所有的國人"},{"start":22553.04,"end":22555.04,"text":"人人都是文化消費者"},{"start":22555.04,"end":22557.04,"text":"我們都能夠讓文化生活"},{"start":22557.04,"end":22559.04,"text":"成為台灣人民的日常"},{"start":22559.04,"end":22561.04,"text":"我這五個"},{"start":22561.04,"end":22563.04,"text":"都是扣合著這樣子的一個思維"},{"start":22563.04,"end":22565.04,"text":"我第一案是"},{"start":22565.04,"end":22567.04,"text":"文化理金"},{"start":22567.04,"end":22569.04,"text":"我們當時投入催生"},{"start":22569.04,"end":22571.04,"text":"在疫情期間上路了"},{"start":22571.04,"end":22573.04,"text":"18歲,每人一年"},{"start":22573.04,"end":22575.04,"text":"1200點"},{"start":22575.04,"end":22577.04,"text":"到後來又不斷地擴大"},{"start":22577.04,"end":22579.04,"text":"13到15歲600元"},{"start":22579.04,"end":22581.04,"text":"現在全面的"},{"start":22581.04,"end":22583.04,"text":"從2015年要到13到"},{"start":22583.04,"end":22585.04,"text":"22歲"},{"start":22585.04,"end":22587.04,"text":"所以說這是一個政府的得證"},{"start":22587.04,"end":22589.04,"text":"總收益的人數可以到"},{"start":22589.04,"end":22591.04,"text":"204萬的國人"},{"start":22591.04,"end":22593.04,"text":"這就是讓我"},{"start":22593.04,"end":22595.04,"text":"國家來支持"},{"start":22595.04,"end":22597.04,"text":"人人有文化理金、文化幣"},{"start":22597.04,"end":22599.04,"text":"人人都是文化消費者"},{"start":22599.04,"end":22601.04,"text":"但是好的政策在執行上"},{"start":22601.04,"end":22603.04,"text":"我依據"},{"start":22603.04,"end":22605.04,"text":"立法院預算中心的統計"},{"start":22605.04,"end":22607.04,"text":"我不曉得文化部有沒有自己的統計"},{"start":22607.04,"end":22609.04,"text":"我認為我們文化幣的使用"},{"start":22609.04,"end":22611.04,"text":"我們要有自己的專業的統計"},{"start":22611.04,"end":22613.04,"text":"好,這我是要求的"},{"start":22613.04,"end":22615.04,"text":"但我目前沒有看到中華"},{"start":22615.04,"end":22617.04,"text":"我只能夠採用立法院"},{"start":22617.04,"end":22619.04,"text":"這個預算中心,所統計的是"},{"start":22619.04,"end":22621.04,"text":"大概這幾年"},{"start":22621.04,"end":22623.04,"text":"執行的經驗會有大概"},{"start":22623.04,"end":22625.04,"text":"51萬人"},{"start":22625.04,"end":22627.04,"text":"將近24.79%"},{"start":22627.04,"end":22629.04,"text":"也就是1%的國人"},{"start":22629.04,"end":22631.04,"text":"他並沒有去領取文化幣"},{"start":22631.04,"end":22633.04,"text":"非常的可惜"},{"start":22633.04,"end":22635.04,"text":"所以說到底是不是"},{"start":22635.04,"end":22637.04,"text":"有什麼樣的原因,他是因為城鄉落差嗎"},{"start":22637.93,"end":22639.93,"text":"推導,推廣不足嗎"},{"start":22639.93,"end":22641.93,"text":"或是我進一步去釐清"},{"start":22641.93,"end":22643.93,"text":"目前的文化幣"},{"start":22643.93,"end":22645.93,"text":"比較著重是實體消費"},{"start":22645.93,"end":22647.93,"text":"那有一些確實比較偏鄉的地方"},{"start":22647.93,"end":22649.93,"text":"它變成有幣無電"},{"start":22649.93,"end":22651.93,"text":"你有這個文化幣,它沒有電可以消費"},{"start":22651.93,"end":22653.93,"text":"如果你是在實體消費的面向上"},{"start":22653.93,"end":22655.93,"text":"所以對文化幣"},{"start":22655.93,"end":22657.93,"text":"如何把這個得證"},{"start":22657.93,"end":22659.93,"text":"能夠擴大更多的人"},{"start":22659.93,"end":22661.93,"text":"它可以更便利的"},{"start":22661.93,"end":22663.93,"text":"它可以更便利的"},{"start":22663.93,"end":22665.93,"text":"它可以更便利的"},{"start":22666.13,"end":22668.13,"text":"它可以更方便的"},{"start":22668.13,"end":22670.13,"text":"在它的生活的領域都能夠來支用"},{"start":22670.13,"end":22672.13,"text":"我覺得這個需要檢討"},{"start":22672.13,"end":22674.13,"text":"或者是評估文化幣"},{"start":22674.13,"end":22676.13,"text":"可以有特定的線上消費的功能"},{"start":22676.13,"end":22678.13,"text":"可不可能"},{"start":22678.13,"end":22680.13,"text":"這個請你們提出你們的檢視"},{"start":22680.13,"end":22682.13,"text":"這是第一案"},{"start":22682.13,"end":22684.13,"text":"接下來第85案"},{"start":22684.13,"end":22686.13,"text":"對不起,我翻一下"},{"start":22685.71,"end":22687.71,"text":"第85案"},{"start":22687.71,"end":22689.71,"text":"那這85跟86"},{"start":22689.71,"end":22691.71,"text":"其實都是我在司法法治委員會"},{"start":22691.71,"end":22693.71,"text":"跨部會所觀察到的"},{"start":22693.71,"end":22695.71,"text":"要給文化部提醒"},{"start":22695.71,"end":22697.71,"text":"人人都是文化消費者"},{"start":22697.71,"end":22699.71,"text":"我們從公部門先行"},{"start":22699.71,"end":22701.71,"text":"公部門有哪些方法"},{"start":22701.71,"end":22703.71,"text":"幫助大家有文化生活"},{"start":22703.71,"end":22705.71,"text":"其實中央各機關員工文康活動"},{"start":22705.71,"end":22707.71,"text":"就是一個方法"},{"start":22707.71,"end":22709.71,"text":"但當我在監督"},{"start":22709.71,"end":22711.71,"text":"人事總處的時候"},{"start":22711.71,"end":22713.71,"text":"我發現我們的文康活動"},{"start":22713.71,"end":22715.71,"text":"都是重康樂輕文化"},{"start":22719.73,"end":22721.73,"text":"所以說"},{"start":22721.73,"end":22723.73,"text":"我想這就是一個好的機會"},{"start":22723.73,"end":22725.73,"text":"不要讓我們的公務體系"},{"start":22725.73,"end":22727.73,"text":"在文化政策中是外國人"},{"start":22727.73,"end":22729.73,"text":"既然大家都去康樂了"},{"start":22729.73,"end":22731.73,"text":"大家都很善用文康活動"},{"start":22731.73,"end":22733.73,"text":"那可不可以多一點文化的選擇呢"},{"start":22733.73,"end":22735.73,"text":"所以說文化部"},{"start":22735.73,"end":22737.73,"text":"應當也擴大跟人事總處"},{"start":22737.73,"end":22739.73,"text":"在藝文欣賞文化體驗活動裡頭"},{"start":22739.73,"end":22741.73,"text":"能夠納入大家的"},{"start":22741.73,"end":22743.73,"text":"文康活動"},{"start":22743.73,"end":22745.73,"text":"就我跟人事總處質詢過很多次"},{"start":22745.73,"end":22747.73,"text":"他們都覺得很好很好很好"},{"start":22747.73,"end":22749.73,"text":"那些選項"},{"start":22749.73,"end":22751.73,"text":"拜託文化部可以跨部會來溝通"},{"start":22751.73,"end":22753.73,"text":"這是85案"},{"start":22753.73,"end":22755.73,"text":"第86案一樣"},{"start":22755.92,"end":22757.92,"text":"同樣的思維"},{"start":22757.92,"end":22759.92,"text":"擴大在國民旅遊卡裡頭"},{"start":22759.92,"end":22761.92,"text":"讓國民旅遊不會只是"},{"start":22761.92,"end":22763.92,"text":"眾觀光輕文化"},{"start":22763.92,"end":22765.92,"text":"輕藝文"},{"start":22765.92,"end":22767.92,"text":"一樣的邏輯可以操作"},{"start":22767.92,"end":22769.92,"text":"我們對國民旅遊卡裡面合作的"},{"start":22769.92,"end":22771.92,"text":"店家"},{"start":22771.92,"end":22773.92,"text":"增設藝文展演圖書出版"},{"start":22773.92,"end":22775.92,"text":"或文化產業"},{"start":22775.92,"end":22777.92,"text":"這是可行的"},{"start":22778.05,"end":22780.05,"text":"所以這是我的第86案"},{"start":22780.05,"end":22782.05,"text":"再來第87案"},{"start":22782.05,"end":22784.05,"text":"我剛剛講過了"},{"start":22784.05,"end":22786.05,"text":"我們公務部門的這個"},{"start":22786.05,"end":22788.05,"text":"員工這個叫做康樂活動"},{"start":22788.05,"end":22790.05,"text":"再到我們的這個"},{"start":22790.05,"end":22792.05,"text":"呃"},{"start":22793.98,"end":22795.98,"text":"再到這個國民旅遊卡"},{"start":22795.98,"end":22797.98,"text":"我的87案在順著"},{"start":22797.98,"end":22799.98,"text":"我們講到是企業"},{"start":22799.98,"end":22801.98,"text":"企業都有職工福利金"},{"start":22804.44,"end":22806.44,"text":"對不起這個是企業嗎"},{"start":22806.44,"end":22808.44,"text":"我看一下對不起這還是在"},{"start":22808.44,"end":22810.44,"text":"我們的那個公務部門"},{"start":22810.44,"end":22812.44,"text":"勞動界勞動界對不起"},{"start":22812.44,"end":22814.44,"text":"我們的企業沒有錯"},{"start":22814.44,"end":22816.44,"text":"我們的企業都有職工福利金"},{"start":22816.44,"end":22818.44,"text":"依據職工福利金條例"},{"start":22818.44,"end":22820.44,"text":"裡頭可以"},{"start":22820.44,"end":22822.44,"text":"去鼓勵公司行號"},{"start":22822.44,"end":22824.44,"text":"各個企業組織設置"},{"start":22824.44,"end":22826.44,"text":"職工福利委員會來辦理"},{"start":22826.44,"end":22828.44,"text":"職工福利的事"},{"start":22828.44,"end":22830.44,"text":"事項那同樣的"},{"start":22830.44,"end":22832.44,"text":"邏輯在文化"},{"start":22832.44,"end":22834.44,"text":"是不夠的"},{"start":22834.44,"end":22836.44,"text":"所以這是在企業端"},{"start":22836.44,"end":22838.44,"text":"如何讓職工福利委員會"},{"start":22838.44,"end":22840.44,"text":"也有文化的思維"},{"start":22840.44,"end":22842.44,"text":"好再來88案"},{"start":22842.44,"end":22844.44,"text":"又更擴大了"},{"start":22844.44,"end":22846.44,"text":"這是企業的ESG"},{"start":22846.44,"end":22848.44,"text":"如何讓更大規模的上市上櫃"},{"start":22848.44,"end":22850.44,"text":"公司的永續發展"},{"start":22850.44,"end":22852.44,"text":"現在確實依據UNESCO"},{"start":22852.44,"end":22854.44,"text":"文化已經是ESG的"},{"start":22854.44,"end":22856.44,"text":"另外第四支啊很重要的"},{"start":22856.44,"end":22858.44,"text":"一支"},{"start":22858.44,"end":22860.44,"text":"所以說依這個之前"},{"start":22860.44,"end":22862.44,"text":"一直在提倡"},{"start":22862.44,"end":22864.44,"text":"員工福利藝文禮券"},{"start":22864.44,"end":22866.44,"text":"補助辦法我們是不是"},{"start":22866.44,"end":22868.44,"text":"能夠文化部來"},{"start":22868.44,"end":22870.44,"text":"鼓勵企業的福委會"},{"start":22870.44,"end":22872.44,"text":"他們的福利委員會投入"},{"start":22872.44,"end":22874.44,"text":"藝文消費你鼓勵他"},{"start":22874.44,"end":22876.44,"text":"給予一些"},{"start":22876.19,"end":22878.19,"text":"稅務優惠的補助"},{"start":22878.19,"end":22880.19,"text":"我認為這也是可行的"},{"start":22880.19,"end":22882.19,"text":"所以我這幾個案子"},{"start":22882.19,"end":22884.19,"text":"從公部門的"},{"start":22885,"end":22887,"text":"康樂活動"},{"start":22886.66,"end":22888.66,"text":"從私部門"},{"start":22888.66,"end":22890.66,"text":"的員工福利"},{"start":22891.03,"end":22893.03,"text":"國民旅遊卡"},{"start":22893,"end":22895,"text":"都是過當的偏重在"},{"start":22895,"end":22897,"text":"不能講過當"},{"start":22897,"end":22899,"text":"比較偏重在觀光"},{"start":22899,"end":22901,"text":"而親義文"},{"start":22901,"end":22903,"text":"所以五個項目我希望"},{"start":22903,"end":22905,"text":"只要部長Say Yes"},{"start":22905,"end":22907,"text":"大家有一個整合"},{"start":22907,"end":22909,"text":"跟公部門的溝通"},{"start":22909,"end":22911,"text":"跟私部門的協作我認為"},{"start":22911,"end":22913,"text":"一定做得到這是所有的"},{"start":22913,"end":22915,"text":"文化產業都非常期待"},{"start":22915,"end":22917,"text":"的事情所以做出"},{"start":22917,"end":22919,"text":"這個選項這個option我們提供"},{"start":22919,"end":22921,"text":"了我相信就可以提振"},{"start":22921,"end":22923,"text":"我們的文化消費"},{"start":22926.31,"end":22928.31,"text":"好 國務卿委員"},{"start":22927.95,"end":22929.95,"text":"這個部分我有四案"},{"start":22929.95,"end":22931.95,"text":"就是67 82"},{"start":22931.95,"end":22933.95,"text":"還有83 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ext":"營業額下滑的原因"},{"start":23128.6,"end":23130.6,"text":"其中廣播電視"},{"start":23130.6,"end":23132.6,"text":"產業及電影產業文化部"},{"start":23132.6,"end":23134.6,"text":"都有投入很多的資源在輔導"},{"start":23134.6,"end":23136.6,"text":"以及在協助"},{"start":23136.6,"end":23138.6,"text":"那有這樣的情況發生"},{"start":23138.6,"end":23140.6,"text":"我是不是應該去"},{"start":23140.6,"end":23142.6,"text":"了解說營業額下滑主要的原因在"},{"start":23142.6,"end":23144.6,"text":"哪裡還有我們也應該要持續"},{"start":23144.6,"end":23146.6,"text":"的拓展國際市場來增加"},{"start":23146.6,"end":23148.6,"text":"我國廣電及電影產業的銷售"},{"start":23148.6,"end":23150.6,"text":"管道那我提這個案子主要是"},{"start":23150.6,"end":23152.6,"text":"要提醒文化部就是說"},{"start":23152.6,"end":23154.6,"text":"我們雖然有資源在投入"},{"start":23154.6,"end":23156.6,"text":"在輔導但是相對的"},{"start":23156.6,"end":23158.6,"text":"這些產業面臨到的問題"},{"start":23158.6,"end":23160.6,"text":"我們是不是有跟這些產業有保持"},{"start":23160.6,"end":23162.6,"text":"密切的交流我們只是有"},{"start":23162.6,"end":23164.6,"text":"資源去輔導他但是他們面對到"},{"start":23164.6,"end":23166.6,"text":"什麼有什麼困境是"},{"start":23166.6,"end":23168.6,"text":"我們沒有理解到或是沒有"},{"start":23168.6,"end":23170.6,"text":"注意到的這個部分還是要"},{"start":23170.6,"end":23172.6,"text":"跟相關的產業"},{"start":23172.6,"end":23174.6,"text":"透過比較"},{"start":23174.61,"end":23176.61,"text":"一些密切的"},{"start":23176.61,"end":23178.61,"text":"交流了解過後"},{"start":23178.61,"end":23180.61,"text":"我們才能夠針對他們"},{"start":23180.61,"end":23182.61,"text":"的需求來提供"},{"start":23182.61,"end":23184.61,"text":"那這個我提供金額是300萬"},{"start":23184.61,"end":23186.61,"text":"沒有堅持一定要動這個數"},{"start":23186.61,"end":23188.61,"text":"那等一下請文化部這邊說明一下"},{"start":23195.22,"end":23197.22,"text":"好謝謝主席我的案子是"},{"start":23197.22,"end":23199.22,"text":"第61案"},{"start":23199.22,"end":23201.22,"text":"是針對"},{"start":23201.22,"end":23203.22,"text":"文化創意產業"},{"start":23204.17,"end":23206.17,"text":"產業發展業務裡面的"},{"start":23206.17,"end":23208.17,"text":"業務費那我主要是針對"},{"start":23208.17,"end":23210.17,"text":"在"},{"start":23210.17,"end":23212.17,"text":"今年的這個五月份的"},{"start":23212.17,"end":23214.17,"text":"密室逃脫店的這個"},{"start":23214.17,"end":23216.17,"text":"意外事件"},{"start":23216.17,"end":23218.17,"text":"那最主要是涉及到沉浸式"},{"start":23218.17,"end":23220.17,"text":"體驗產業"},{"start":23220.17,"end":23222.17,"text":"它是屬於"},{"start":23222.17,"end":23224.17,"text":"我們的"},{"start":23224.17,"end":23226.17,"text":"文化創意"},{"start":23227.54,"end":23229.54,"text":"產業發展"},{"start":23229.54,"end":23231.54,"text":"條例裡面的一個項目"},{"start":23231.54,"end":23233.54,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":23233.54,"end":23235.54,"text":"它有一個很大的問題是"},{"start":23235.54,"end":23237.54,"text":"據到前年他們的一個"},{"start":23237.54,"end":23239.54,"text":"調查產業的調查是說他們"},{"start":23239.54,"end":23241.54,"text":"沒有專法的管理"},{"start":23241.54,"end":23243.54,"text":"那這個跨域整合的縣市也都"},{"start":23243.54,"end":23245.54,"text":"遇到了很大的困難"},{"start":23245.54,"end":23247.54,"text":"發展好那最主要"},{"start":23247.54,"end":23249.54,"text":"的是呢把他們認為"},{"start":23249.54,"end":23251.54,"text":"說他們事實上是個娛樂"},{"start":23251.54,"end":23253.54,"text":"娛樂業但是就"},{"start":23253.54,"end":23255.54,"text":"我們對於"},{"start":23255.54,"end":23257.54,"text":"沉浸式體驗產業來發展來看的話"},{"start":23257.54,"end":23259.54,"text":"那它本身是具備有很多的"},{"start":23259.54,"end":23261.54,"text":"體才的這種在地化跟"},{"start":23261.54,"end":23263.54,"text":"有些歷史事件"},{"start":23263.54,"end":23265.54,"text":"還有在地的台會的這種影視"},{"start":23265.54,"end":23267.54,"text":"的劇局"},{"start":23267.54,"end":23269.54,"text":"還有包括的是"},{"start":23269.54,"end":23271.54,"text":"這種影視"},{"start":23271.54,"end":23273.54,"text":"音樂劇場的"},{"start":23273.54,"end":23275.54,"text":"這樣的一個"},{"start":23275.54,"end":23277.54,"text":"結合的整合性的一種輸出"},{"start":23277.54,"end":23279.54,"text":"那它還具備了全球的"},{"start":23279.54,"end":23281.54,"text":"競爭力但是就是因為"},{"start":23281.54,"end":23283.54,"text":"目前"},{"start":23283.54,"end":23285.54,"text":"我們跟文化部在詢問的"},{"start":23285.54,"end":23287.54,"text":"結果他們"},{"start":23287.54,"end":23289.54,"text":"的一個做法因為"},{"start":23289.54,"end":23291.54,"text":"它涉及到的是在運用的部分"},{"start":23291.54,"end":23293.54,"text":"它就有這個"},{"start":23293.54,"end":23295.54,"text":"使用場地的部分"},{"start":23295.54,"end":23297.54,"text":"它在屬於都市計畫"},{"start":23297.54,"end":23299.54,"text":"都市計畫法的"},{"start":23299.54,"end":23301.54,"text":"部分包括是處地的"},{"start":23301.54,"end":23303.54,"text":"使用還在什麼D1"},{"start":23303.54,"end":23305.54,"text":"還有內那個"},{"start":23305.54,"end":23307.54,"text":"消防跟艦管的部分"},{"start":23307.54,"end":23309.54,"text":"都跟在"},{"start":23309.54,"end":23311.54,"text":"現在的這種"},{"start":23311.54,"end":23313.54,"text":"KTV或者是電影院的場合"},{"start":23313.54,"end":23315.54,"text":"是一樣的這個大規模"},{"start":23315.54,"end":23317.54,"text":"可是我們知道的這"},{"start":23317.54,"end":23319.54,"text":"曾經是體驗產業它本身"},{"start":23319.54,"end":23321.54,"text":"是屬於一個預約制當中比較"},{"start":23321.54,"end":23323.54,"text":"小型的人數可能是六到"},{"start":23323.54,"end":23325.54,"text":"十二人或是有時候會"},{"start":23325.54,"end":23327.54,"text":"多點但是都是實名制的在"},{"start":23327.54,"end":23329.54,"text":"這樣的一個產業它"},{"start":23329.54,"end":23331.54,"text":"變成說主管機關"},{"start":23331.54,"end":23333.54,"text":"是文化部但是卻缺"},{"start":23333.54,"end":23335.54,"text":"缺乏了"},{"start":23335.54,"end":23337.54,"text":"詢問之後卻缺乏了對於說"},{"start":23337.54,"end":23339.54,"text":"它需要跟跨部會"},{"start":23339.54,"end":23341.54,"text":"文化跟"},{"start":23341.54,"end":23343.54,"text":"內政部"},{"start":23343.54,"end":23345.54,"text":"艦管的"},{"start":23345.54,"end":23347.54,"text":"消防的這一些部分甚至還有"},{"start":23347.54,"end":23349.54,"text":"在發展上面有關經濟部"},{"start":23349.54,"end":23351.54,"text":"的發展上面它都"},{"start":23351.54,"end":23353.54,"text":"都並沒有一個整體的"},{"start":23353.54,"end":23355.54,"text":"想要單體文化部作為"},{"start":23355.54,"end":23357.54,"text":"主管機關的一個責任"},{"start":23357.54,"end":23359.54,"text":"因為給我們寫的這樣建議是說"},{"start":23359.54,"end":23361.54,"text":"建立產業自主管理"},{"start":23361.54,"end":23363.54,"text":"做法然後強化"},{"start":23363.54,"end":23365.54,"text":"業者風險控管及提升安全意識"},{"start":23365.54,"end":23367.54,"text":"就是因為文化部"},{"start":23367.54,"end":23369.54,"text":"它沒有準備要去"},{"start":23369.54,"end":23371.54,"text":"做好對要去承擔這個"},{"start":23371.54,"end":23373.54,"text":"跟跨部會協調的最主要責任"},{"start":23373.54,"end":23375.54,"text":"那現在目前跟地方的聯絡"},{"start":23375.54,"end":23377.54,"text":"上面是台北市可能有了"},{"start":23377.54,"end":23379.54,"text":"但是在其他的二十一縣市上面它"},{"start":23379.54,"end":23381.54,"text":"其實還差得很遠所以我們希望"},{"start":23381.54,"end":23383.54,"text":"是說我會"},{"start":23383.54,"end":23385.54,"text":"目前我先等一下聽聽看文化部"},{"start":23385.54,"end":23387.54,"text":"這邊的在第二次的一個意見"},{"start":23387.54,"end":23389.54,"text":"回覆之後我們再看看是不是"},{"start":23389.54,"end":23391.54,"text":"有一個更具體的要承擔一些這樣的"},{"start":23391.54,"end":23393.54,"text":"一個主管機關尤其是對這個"},{"start":23393.54,"end":23395.54,"text":"產業它的一個"},{"start":23395.54,"end":23397.54,"text":"它還很具備了台灣的"},{"start":23397.54,"end":23399.54,"text":"一個文化創意的"},{"start":23399.54,"end":23401.54,"text":"讓台北的一個"},{"start":23401.54,"end":23403.54,"text":"產業呢它是不是也"},{"start":23403.54,"end":23405.54,"text":"能夠提供就是說作為主管"},{"start":23405.54,"end":23407.54,"text":"機關的一個承擔出來"},{"start":23407.54,"end":23409.54,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":23411.81,"end":23413.81,"text":"蔡正宗委員"},{"start":23413.13,"end":23415.13,"text":"大家好"},{"start":23415.13,"end":23417.13,"text":"我有三個案子"},{"start":23417.13,"end":23419.13,"text":"第一個案子是六十六案"},{"start":23419.13,"end":23421.13,"text":"那個空總的一個"},{"start":23421.13,"end":23423.13,"text":"實驗場的一個計畫"},{"start":23423.13,"end":23425.13,"text":"那空總既有文化"},{"start":23425.13,"end":23427.13,"text":"實驗跨域創作"},{"start":23427.13,"end":23429.13,"text":"跟藝術科技及"},{"start":23429.13,"end":23431.13,"text":"公共運用的一個功能"},{"start":23431.13,"end":23433.13,"text":"這不是不能支持"},{"start":23433.13,"end":23435.13,"text":"但這個計畫呢"},{"start":23435.13,"end":23437.13,"text":"還需要呢"},{"start":23437.13,"end":23439.13,"text":"核定那空間的使用力呢"},{"start":23439.13,"end":23441.13,"text":"也要有一致的一個標準"},{"start":23441.13,"end":23443.13,"text":"那文化部呢應該要提出計畫"},{"start":23443.13,"end":23445.13,"text":"來核定這樣的一個進度"},{"start":23445.13,"end":23447.13,"text":"空間使用的一個資料"},{"start":23447.13,"end":23449.13,"text":"還有呢閒置"},{"start":23449.13,"end":23451.13,"text":"是如何喉化空間"},{"start":23451.13,"end":23453.13,"text":"這樣的改善方案"},{"start":23453.13,"end":23455.13,"text":"我們希望呢文化部"},{"start":23455.13,"end":23457.13,"text":"能夠提出來"},{"start":23457.13,"end":23459.13,"text":"那這個案呢"},{"start":23459.13,"end":23461.13,"text":"我是凍結五百萬"},{"start":23461.13,"end":23463.13,"text":"那第二個案是"},{"start":23463.13,"end":23465.13,"text":"七十案"},{"start":23467.45,"end":23469.45,"text":"那七十案呢是"},{"start":23469.45,"end":23471.45,"text":"屬於文策院的一個"},{"start":23471.45,"end":23473.45,"text":"政策"},{"start":23473.45,"end":23475.45,"text":"文策院呢是"},{"start":23475.45,"end":23477.45,"text":"政策的一個工具"},{"start":23477.45,"end":23479.45,"text":"不是黑箱資金的水庫"},{"start":23479.45,"end":23481.45,"text":"那文化部呢要"},{"start":23481.45,"end":23483.45,"text":"若要繼續來支持文策院"},{"start":23483.45,"end":23485.45,"text":"就要讓立法院能夠看得到"},{"start":23485.45,"end":23487.45,"text":"錢投到哪裡去了"},{"start":23487.45,"end":23489.45,"text":"那成果又如何"},{"start":23489.45,"end":23491.45,"text":"市府呢是集中在少數的一個對象"},{"start":23491.45,"end":23493.45,"text":"那這個補助的對象"},{"start":23493.45,"end":23495.45,"text":"能夠更多元"},{"start":23495.45,"end":23497.45,"text":"這個機會呢要公平"},{"start":23497.45,"end":23499.45,"text":"那也要讓"},{"start":23499.45,"end":23501.45,"text":"更多的藝人呢有機會"},{"start":23501.45,"end":23503.45,"text":"能夠有政府的依靠"},{"start":23503.45,"end":23505.45,"text":"這是我"},{"start":23505.45,"end":23507.45,"text":"強調跟堅持的"},{"start":23507.45,"end":23509.45,"text":"所以這個案呢我凍結了"},{"start":23509.45,"end":23511.45,"text":"五千萬"},{"start":23510.7,"end":23512.7,"text":"那第三個案呢"},{"start":23512.7,"end":23514.7,"text":"是"},{"start":23514.7,"end":23516.7,"text":"就是文化幣"},{"start":23516.7,"end":23518.7,"text":"文化幣"},{"start":23518.7,"end":23520.7,"text":"這個呢我是"},{"start":23520.7,"end":23522.7,"text":"相當支持啦"},{"start":23522.7,"end":23524.7,"text":"但是文化部呢"},{"start":23524.7,"end":23526.7,"text":"不能只說年輕人有使用"},{"start":23526.7,"end":23528.7,"text":"那還要說清楚"},{"start":23528.7,"end":23530.7,"text":"是誰用得到"},{"start":23530.7,"end":23532.7,"text":"那誰用不到"},{"start":23532.7,"end":23534.7,"text":"那尤其呢是偏鄉的"},{"start":23534.7,"end":23536.7,"text":"偏鄉的這些孩子呢"},{"start":23536.7,"end":23538.7,"text":"他是不是"},{"start":23538.7,"end":23540.7,"text":"以公平原則來說"},{"start":23540.7,"end":23542.7,"text":"他是不是真的用到了"},{"start":23542.7,"end":23544.7,"text":"那如果用不到的話呢"},{"start":23544.7,"end":23546.7,"text":"那我們也要探討"},{"start":23546.7,"end":23548.7,"text":"那到底是什麼因素"},{"start":23548.7,"end":23550.7,"text":"那這些偏鄉的孩子"},{"start":23550.7,"end":23552.7,"text":"沒有辦法呢跟我們都會區的孩子"},{"start":23552.7,"end":23554.7,"text":"共同這樣的一個機會"},{"start":23554.7,"end":23556.7,"text":"跟一個平等"},{"start":23556.7,"end":23558.7,"text":"那在這個部分呢也希望呢"},{"start":23558.7,"end":23560.7,"text":"文化部能夠做一個報告"},{"start":23560.7,"end":23562.7,"text":"那在這個案呢"},{"start":23562.7,"end":23564.7,"text":"我是凍結三百萬"},{"start":23564.7,"end":23566.7,"text":"那以上三個案呢那我們就先"},{"start":23566.7,"end":23568.7,"text":"先聽文化部的一個解說"},{"start":23568.7,"end":23570.7,"text":"那個說明"},{"start":23570.7,"end":23572.7,"text":"那我們再來處理如何"},{"start":23572.7,"end":23574.7,"text":"這個那個預算案如何來處理"},{"start":23574.7,"end":23576.7,"text":"以上"},{"start":23578.91,"end":23580.91,"text":"準備意味著"},{"start":23581.81,"end":23583.81,"text":"好我"},{"start":23583.81,"end":23585.81,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":23585.81,"end":23587.81,"text":"我這邊有第五十九案"},{"start":23587.81,"end":23589.81,"text":"還有第七十五案"},{"start":23589.81,"end":23591.81,"text":"五十九案是關於文化幣的部分"},{"start":23591.81,"end":23593.81,"text":"其實剛剛非常多委員就提到文化幣"},{"start":23593.81,"end":23595.81,"text":"如果"},{"start":23595.81,"end":23597.81,"text":"按照思量委員剛剛建議的那個數字"},{"start":23597.81,"end":23599.81,"text":"將近四分之一的人"},{"start":23599.81,"end":23601.81,"text":"是沒有領文化幣的"},{"start":23601.81,"end":23603.81,"text":"那其實就回應到另外一個我們在"},{"start":23603.81,"end":23605.81,"text":"文化部已經討論很多年"},{"start":23605.81,"end":23607.81,"text":"就是文化幣到底可不可以買電子書"},{"start":23607.81,"end":23609.81,"text":"甚至電子書裡面"},{"start":23609.81,"end":23611.81,"text":"其實不是只有我們一般讀者在使用的電子書"},{"start":23611.81,"end":23613.81,"text":"它可能還包含有聲書"},{"start":23613.81,"end":23615.81,"text":"還有無障礙版本的電子書"},{"start":23615.81,"end":23617.81,"text":"這樣的數位圖書"},{"start":23617.81,"end":23619.81,"text":"它甚至可以有利於不同的族群"},{"start":23619.81,"end":23621.81,"text":"還有不同的身體狀況"},{"start":23621.81,"end":23623.81,"text":"的讀者可以使用"},{"start":23623.81,"end":23625.81,"text":"那但是文化部確實對文化幣"},{"start":23625.81,"end":23627.81,"text":"可不可以購買"},{"start":23627.81,"end":23629.81,"text":"電子書這件事情是有相關疑慮的"},{"start":23629.81,"end":23631.81,"text":"你們的說法說"},{"start":23631.81,"end":23633.81,"text":"會不會跑去買OTT平台啦"},{"start":23633.81,"end":23635.81,"text":"音樂串流Spotify這種數位"},{"start":23635.81,"end":23637.81,"text":"消費喔可是我想"},{"start":23637.81,"end":23639.81,"text":"這個相關的爭議應該還不會"},{"start":23639.81,"end":23641.81,"text":"擴散到那裡去因為如果文化幣"},{"start":23641.81,"end":23645.81,"text":"對於偏鄉的讀者"},{"start":23645.81,"end":23647.81,"text":"或是偏鄉的年輕人在取用上"},{"start":23647.81,"end":23649.81,"text":"或在使用上確實有困難"},{"start":23649.81,"end":23651.81,"text":"那我認為逐步開放"},{"start":23651.81,"end":23653.81,"text":"買電子書在文化幣"},{"start":23653.81,"end":23655.81,"text":"這件事情是有其意義的也拜託文化部"},{"start":23655.81,"end":23657.81,"text":"持續考慮跟討論"},{"start":23657.81,"end":23659.81,"text":"那我們看到相關文化幣的使用"},{"start":23659.81,"end":23661.81,"text":"有六成的文化幣用在六都"},{"start":23661.81,"end":23663.81,"text":"所以也就是說文化金融性"},{"start":23663.81,"end":23665.81,"text":"這件事情確實是文化幣以後在推廣"},{"start":23665.81,"end":23667.81,"text":"要持續注意的"},{"start":23667.81,"end":23669.81,"text":"再來我還有提到"},{"start":23669.81,"end":23671.81,"text":"目前文化部有一個文創園區的白皮書"},{"start":23671.81,"end":23673.81,"text":"可是事實上是看到"},{"start":23673.81,"end":23675.81,"text":"除了華山文創園區之外"},{"start":23675.81,"end":23677.81,"text":"台中嘉義台南花蓮"},{"start":23677.81,"end":23679.81,"text":"這四個地方的文創園區狀況"},{"start":23679.81,"end":23681.81,"text":"其實越來越辛苦"},{"start":23681.81,"end":23683.81,"text":"那不論是生活"},{"start":23683.81,"end":23685.81,"text":"台灣生活美學基金會在招商上"},{"start":23685.81,"end":23687.81,"text":"或者是到底是用什麼樣"},{"start":23687.81,"end":23689.81,"text":"發包的狀況其實看到"},{"start":23689.81,"end":23691.81,"text":"每一個文創園區都沒有辦法吸引"},{"start":23691.81,"end":23693.81,"text":"足夠多的人走進去"},{"start":23693.81,"end":23695.81,"text":"看展也好消費也好"},{"start":23695.81,"end":23697.81,"text":"那所以我認為在各個文創園區"},{"start":23697.81,"end":23699.81,"text":"的特色論述招商策略"},{"start":23699.81,"end":23703.81,"text":"活動策劃的方針都應該要重新檢討經營模式"},{"start":23703.81,"end":23705.81,"text":"明明我們已經有白皮書了"},{"start":23705.81,"end":23707.81,"text":"可是看到真的是美下浴礦"},{"start":23707.81,"end":23709.81,"text":"再來就是空總台灣"},{"start":23709.81,"end":23711.81,"text":"當代文化實驗場第二期整體發展"},{"start":23711.81,"end":23713.81,"text":"到現在為止已經第七年了"},{"start":23713.81,"end":23715.81,"text":"可是一樣看到"},{"start":23715.81,"end":23717.81,"text":"有很多的困境"},{"start":23717.81,"end":23719.81,"text":"這個一樣要文化部持續努力"},{"start":23719.81,"end":23721.81,"text":"再來75案是關於文策"},{"start":23721.81,"end":23723.81,"text":"院我的提案"},{"start":23723.81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"112年度從11.28"},{"start":24114.58,"end":24116.58,"text":"未領取的人數"},{"start":24116.58,"end":24118.58,"text":"那提升到"},{"start":24118.58,"end":24120.58,"text":"114年8月20"},{"start":24120.58,"end":24122.58,"text":"24.79"},{"start":24122.58,"end":24124.58,"text":"那我認為不管"},{"start":24124.58,"end":24126.58,"text":"文化部的說法啦"},{"start":24126.58,"end":24128.58,"text":"那我們也看到現在青年文化的消費"},{"start":24128.58,"end":24130.58,"text":"線上串流數位閱讀"},{"start":24130.58,"end":24132.58,"text":"這個都有差異"},{"start":24132.58,"end":24134.58,"text":"所以很少會有這樣子的一個鼓勵的補助"},{"start":24134.58,"end":24136.58,"text":"結果越來越多人不領"},{"start":24136.58,"end":24138.58,"text":"所以到底是你們的補助沒有"},{"start":24138.58,"end":24140.58,"text":"吸引力還是實際跟不上"},{"start":24140.58,"end":24142.58,"text":"大家的需求"},{"start":24142.58,"end":24144.58,"text":"這部分你們真的要好好的檢討"},{"start":24144.58,"end":24146.58,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":24146.58,"end":24148.58,"text":"我覺得大家都還"},{"start":24148.58,"end":24150.58,"text":"算是可以"},{"start":24150.44,"end":24152.44,"text":"一起探討一起精進"},{"start":24152.44,"end":24154.44,"text":"但是我想有一件事情"},{"start":24154.44,"end":24156.44,"text":"我要跟進我們"},{"start":24156.44,"end":24158.44,"text":"羅志祥委員"},{"start":24158.44,"end":24160.44,"text":"羅志祥委員在68案"},{"start":24160.44,"end":24162.44,"text":"大家所看到的就加強"},{"start":24162.44,"end":24164.44,"text":"投資文化創意的"},{"start":24164.44,"end":24166.44,"text":"產業實施方案"},{"start":24166.44,"end":24168.44,"text":"不管是文策院所執行的"},{"start":24168.44,"end":24170.44,"text":"國發基金"},{"start":24170.44,"end":24172.44,"text":"就委員所提到的"},{"start":24172.44,"end":24174.44,"text":"羅志祥委員所提到"},{"start":24174.44,"end":24176.44,"text":"這個公伏這個補助1.5億"},{"start":24176.44,"end":24178.44,"text":"那他這個"},{"start":24178.44,"end":24180.44,"text":"這個公伏的票房呢"},{"start":24180.44,"end":24182.44,"text":"僅為4693萬"},{"start":24182.44,"end":24184.44,"text":"這件事情"},{"start":24184.44,"end":24186.44,"text":"這個我尊重委員的提案"},{"start":24186.86,"end":24188.86,"text":"但是我要講的是"},{"start":24188.86,"end":24190.86,"text":"這真的是蠻誇張的"},{"start":24190.86,"end":24192.86,"text":"讓我也不能夠接受"},{"start":24192.86,"end":24194.86,"text":"那不能夠接受哪裡呢"},{"start":24194.86,"end":24196.86,"text":"我再加強這個論述請各位委員"},{"start":24196.86,"end":24198.86,"text":"可以聽聽看喔"},{"start":24198.86,"end":24200.86,"text":"在113年度的時候3月27號"},{"start":24200.86,"end":24202.86,"text":"我就已經質詢過"},{"start":24202.86,"end":24204.86,"text":"文化部投資都慘賠"},{"start":24204.86,"end":24206.86,"text":"而且把國發基金"},{"start":24206.86,"end":24208.86,"text":"當成是文化部的"},{"start":24208.86,"end":24210.86,"text":"小金庫我當時"},{"start":24210.86,"end":24212.86,"text":"所知喔很清楚"},{"start":24212.86,"end":24214.86,"text":"在文策院國發基金"},{"start":24214.86,"end":24216.86,"text":"相關的這些預算"},{"start":24217.82,"end":24219.82,"text":"將投資項目"},{"start":24219.64,"end":24221.64,"text":"預算金額"},{"start":24221.64,"end":24223.64,"text":"還有績效一一列給我看"},{"start":24223.64,"end":24225.64,"text":"不看沒事啊"},{"start":24225.64,"end":24227.64,"text":"一看嚇一跳大家聽聽看"},{"start":24227.64,"end":24229.64,"text":"首先當然啦"},{"start":24229.64,"end":24231.64,"text":"兩個單位我問文化部"},{"start":24231.64,"end":24233.64,"text":"文化部回答說投資的"},{"start":24233.64,"end":24235.64,"text":"件數有99件文策院說68件"},{"start":24235.64,"end":24237.64,"text":"我不知道文策院當時"},{"start":24237.64,"end":24239.64,"text":"少了31件是跑到哪裡"},{"start":24239.64,"end":24241.64,"text":"我有質詢但是"},{"start":24241.64,"end":24243.64,"text":"後面的數據我才真的嚇一跳"},{"start":24243.64,"end":24245.64,"text":"大家聽聽看喔"},{"start":24245.64,"end":24247.64,"text":"我隨便舉幾個例子我當時所知道的"},{"start":24248.92,"end":24250.92,"text":"當時整個文策院利用國發基金"},{"start":24250.92,"end":24254.92,"text":"來投資相關的電影事業產業喔"},{"start":24255.77,"end":24257.77,"text":"我的麻吉四個鬼"},{"start":24258.03,"end":24260.03,"text":"賠了823萬"},{"start":24261.27,"end":24263.27,"text":"詐團員賠了"},{"start":24263.27,"end":24265.27,"text":"897萬"},{"start":24265.95,"end":24267.95,"text":"流麻溝15號"},{"start":24267.95,"end":24269.95,"text":"賠了997萬"},{"start":24269.95,"end":24271.95,"text":"我的天堂城市"},{"start":24271.95,"end":24275.95,"text":"賠了1169萬"},{"start":24276.66,"end":24278.66,"text":"山中森林這部電影"},{"start":24278.66,"end":24280.66,"text":"賠了1437萬"},{"start":24282.96,"end":24284.96,"text":"他馬克老闆"},{"start":24284.96,"end":24286.96,"text":"賠了1782萬"},{"start":24286.96,"end":24288.96,"text":"1782萬"},{"start":24288.96,"end":24290.96,"text":"賠還不是當時最多的喔"},{"start":24290.96,"end":24292.96,"text":"那我想專案投資是文化部"},{"start":24292.96,"end":24294.96,"text":"獨有的一個政策"},{"start":24294.96,"end":24296.96,"text":"這沒有什麼不好"},{"start":24296.96,"end":24298.96,"text":"我們一定支持"},{"start":24298.96,"end":24300.96,"text":"我們一定支持"},{"start":24300.96,"end":24302.96,"text":"我們的國片可是我真的很納悶"},{"start":24302.96,"end":24304.96,"text":"有一句話常言道"},{"start":24306.89,"end":24308.89,"text":"投資有賺有賠"},{"start":24308.89,"end":24310.89,"text":"但每一案都慘賠啊"},{"start":24311.43,"end":24313.43,"text":"這個真的是完全不合理啊"},{"start":24313.43,"end":24317.43,"text":"所以怎麼會每個案子都慘賠的情況之下"},{"start":24317.43,"end":24319.43,"text":"還越投越多"},{"start":24319.43,"end":24321.43,"text":"我想這個真的不想要說清楚"},{"start":24321.43,"end":24323.43,"text":"今天絕對不是針對"},{"start":24323.91,"end":24325.91,"text":"公司這一案而已"},{"start":24325.91,"end":24327.91,"text":"是有雪淋淋的這些潛力"},{"start":24327.91,"end":24329.91,"text":"我還是再一次強調"},{"start":24329.91,"end":24331.91,"text":"支持國片我們大家都願意"},{"start":24331.91,"end":24333.91,"text":"你可以繼續投資"},{"start":24333.91,"end":24335.91,"text":"但是面對每一部片"},{"start":24335.91,"end":24337.91,"text":"都慘賠我們到底"},{"start":24337.91,"end":24339.91,"text":"有什麼配套"},{"start":24339.91,"end":24341.91,"text":"告訴我們的國人你的納稅錢"},{"start":24341.91,"end":24343.91,"text":"我們沒有浪費"},{"start":24343.91,"end":24345.91,"text":"這些後續的效益呢"},{"start":24345.91,"end":24347.91,"text":"當時給我的回應就是說"},{"start":24347.91,"end":24349.91,"text":"沒有啦效黨沒多久啊"},{"start":24349.91,"end":24351.91,"text":"有的還在驗現片啊"},{"start":24351.91,"end":24353.91,"text":"這個資料呢歡迎你補給我們"},{"start":24353.91,"end":24355.91,"text":"我希望他賺錢"},{"start":24355.5,"end":24357.5,"text":"我希望你們對於國片越多的支持"},{"start":24357.5,"end":24359.5,"text":"但是只給錢是不是"},{"start":24359.5,"end":24361.5,"text":"你們的政策有問題"},{"start":24361.5,"end":24363.5,"text":"是不是應該要其他的輔助"},{"start":24363.5,"end":24365.5,"text":"另外"},{"start":24364.45,"end":24366.45,"text":"當年度同一個質詢"},{"start":24366.45,"end":24368.45,"text":"我也一直在強調"},{"start":24368.09,"end":24370.09,"text":"我們現在文化部台灣現在的兒童節目的自製比例"},{"start":24372.06,"end":24374.06,"text":"看到這支比例是8%"},{"start":24374.06,"end":24376.06,"text":"全球排名是倒數"},{"start":24376.06,"end":24378.06,"text":"台灣的小朋友基本上"},{"start":24378.06,"end":24380.06,"text":"都是看兒童節目"},{"start":24379.82,"end":24381.82,"text":"但是呢都在看玻璃"},{"start":24381.82,"end":24383.82,"text":"碰碰舞baby 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made"},{"start":24389.2,"end":24391.2,"text":"這些兒童節目但是我們自製率"},{"start":24391.2,"end":24393.2,"text":"這麼低的當下台灣"},{"start":24393.2,"end":24395.2,"text":"能不能有突破性兩年了"},{"start":24395.2,"end":24397.2,"text":"或許你會告訴我8%變9%"},{"start":24397.2,"end":24399.2,"text":"9%變10%"},{"start":24398.99,"end":24400.99,"text":"我希望我們的這些文化內容"},{"start":24400.99,"end":24402.99,"text":"是不是應該要"},{"start":24402.99,"end":24404.99,"text":"更迫切的"},{"start":24404.99,"end":24406.99,"text":"好好精進"},{"start":24406.99,"end":24408.99,"text":"錢花在刀口"},{"start":24408.99,"end":24410.99,"text":"不要再這樣子浪費公帑"},{"start":24410.99,"end":24412.99,"text":"而且台灣的自製兒童節目"},{"start":24412.99,"end":24414.99,"text":"應該要"},{"start":24414.99,"end":24416.99,"text":"更加的重視"},{"start":24416.99,"end":24418.99,"text":"以上"},{"start":24420.82,"end":24422.82,"text":"我們是不是請文化部回應"},{"start":24424.02,"end":24426.02,"text":"謝謝大家指教"},{"start":24426.02,"end":24428.02,"text":"我先回答文社院"},{"start":24428.02,"end":24430.02,"text":"包括剛剛講到功夫"},{"start":24430.02,"end":24432.02,"text":"還有很多電影都賠錢"},{"start":24432.02,"end":24434.02,"text":"我來這邊"},{"start":24434.02,"end":24436.02,"text":"趁這個機會稍微解釋一下"},{"start":24436.02,"end":24438.02,"text":"當年那個文社院的成立其實是"},{"start":24438.02,"end":24440.02,"text":"非常重要因為大家投資文創"},{"start":24440.02,"end":24442.02,"text":"然後它其實有個最大的目的就是"},{"start":24442.02,"end":24444.02,"text":"引進這個民間資金"},{"start":24444.02,"end":24446.02,"text":"共同投資"},{"start":24446.02,"end":24448.02,"text":"那電影這個產業如果沒有政府"},{"start":24448.02,"end":24450.02,"text":"的扶持的話基本上"},{"start":24450.02,"end":24452.02,"text":"他是沒有人敢拍因為"},{"start":24452.02,"end":24454.02,"text":"他要拍一部賠一部"},{"start":24454.02,"end":24456.02,"text":"所以從開始投資"},{"start":24456.02,"end":24458.02,"text":"投資公司"},{"start":24458.02,"end":24460.02,"text":"投資基金到後來"},{"start":24460.02,"end":24462.02,"text":"開始慢慢專案投資"},{"start":24462.02,"end":24464.02,"text":"我必須承認專案投資"},{"start":24464.02,"end":24466.02,"text":"的風險非常大"},{"start":24466.02,"end":24468.02,"text":"所以講到功夫"},{"start":24468.02,"end":24470.02,"text":"我個人沒有經歷但是我想當年"},{"start":24470.02,"end":24472.02,"text":"會這麼"},{"start":24471.56,"end":24473.56,"text":"花這麼多的錢投資功夫可能就是"},{"start":24473.56,"end":24475.56,"text":"因為當時他們看好這個"},{"start":24475.56,"end":24477.56,"text":"九把刀然後他"},{"start":24477.56,"end":24479.56,"text":"曾經好幾部電影都賣了好幾億"},{"start":24479.56,"end":24481.56,"text":"然後他想用這部電影"},{"start":24481.56,"end":24483.56,"text":"作為一個台灣好久沒有的"},{"start":24483.56,"end":24485.56,"text":"好久沒有的功夫片"},{"start":24485.56,"end":24487.56,"text":"他具有一種開創性"},{"start":24487.56,"end":24489.56,"text":"以上是我後來去查資料他們"},{"start":24489.56,"end":24491.56,"text":"為什麼這樣願意投資他"},{"start":24491.56,"end":24493.56,"text":"後來這個結果的確令人"},{"start":24493.56,"end":24495.56,"text":"這個非常傻眼所以"},{"start":24495.56,"end":24497.56,"text":"我個人在這邊代表這個"},{"start":24497.56,"end":24499.56,"text":"文社院投資這個功夫"},{"start":24499.56,"end":24501.56,"text":"這個慘賠"},{"start":24501.56,"end":24503.56,"text":"我個人道歉向所有"},{"start":24503.56,"end":24505.56,"text":"這個關心台灣影視"},{"start":24505.56,"end":24507.56,"text":"的還有這個納稅人道歉"},{"start":24507.56,"end":24509.56,"text":"那我2024年"},{"start":24509.56,"end":24511.56,"text":"五月來文化部2024年"},{"start":24511.56,"end":24513.56,"text":"八月我向當時的"},{"start":24513.56,"end":24515.56,"text":"國發基金主委劉主委"},{"start":24515.56,"end":24517.56,"text":"爭取下一個一百億"},{"start":24517.56,"end":24519.56,"text":"第二個一百億我跟他保證"},{"start":24519.56,"end":24521.56,"text":"我們自己會看守"},{"start":24521.56,"end":24523.56,"text":"這個一百億然後我"},{"start":24523.56,"end":24525.56,"text":"增加兩次的審查機會"},{"start":24525.56,"end":24527.56,"text":"然後讓這個錢不要"},{"start":24527.56,"end":24529.56,"text":"不要再"},{"start":24529.44,"end":24531.44,"text":"發生剛才講的那個情況"},{"start":24531.44,"end":24533.44,"text":"那要怎麼改變呢"},{"start":24533.44,"end":24535.44,"text":"第一我們慢慢減少"},{"start":24535.44,"end":24537.44,"text":"專案投資慢慢增加"},{"start":24537.44,"end":24539.44,"text":"回到過去這種投資"},{"start":24539.44,"end":24541.44,"text":"股份有限公司或者是"},{"start":24541.44,"end":24543.44,"text":"投資基金增加"},{"start":24543.44,"end":24545.44,"text":"投資基金這個基金就是"},{"start":24545.44,"end":24547.44,"text":"國內外的基金最後"},{"start":24547.44,"end":24549.44,"text":"這個基金也還是回來投資"},{"start":24549.44,"end":24551.44,"text":"所有的文創產業"},{"start":24551.44,"end":24553.44,"text":"然後經過這個"},{"start":24553.44,"end":24555.44,"text":"短短的幾個月其實我們"},{"start":24555.44,"end":24557.44,"text":"專案投資慢慢減少"},{"start":24557.44,"end":24559.44,"text":"這個基金國內外基金"},{"start":24559.44,"end":24561.44,"text":"跟公司的股份投資"},{"start":24561.44,"end":24563.44,"text":"慢慢增加那我必須解釋"},{"start":24563.44,"end":24565.44,"text":"一下我自己在文策院"},{"start":24565.44,"end":24567.44,"text":"成立的時候就是憑藉委員"},{"start":24567.44,"end":24569.44,"text":"的召集人連續兩次"},{"start":24569.44,"end":24571.44,"text":"所以我有看到文策院"},{"start":24571.44,"end":24573.44,"text":"的問題所以我特別請到"},{"start":24573.44,"end":24575.44,"text":"我們的王十志次長去兼"},{"start":24575.44,"end":24577.44,"text":"文策院的董事長"},{"start":24577.44,"end":24579.44,"text":"他並不是要去干預"},{"start":24579.44,"end":24581.44,"text":"他是我看到問題很嚴重"},{"start":24581.44,"end"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所以我覺得這兩年"},{"start":24800.82,"end":24802.82,"text":"等於又是賠了人民的納稅錢"},{"start":24802.82,"end":24804.82,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":24806.65,"end":24808.65,"text":"我就現在我只能說"},{"start":24808.65,"end":24810.65,"text":"我很勉強的接受"},{"start":24810.65,"end":24812.65,"text":"但是我真的拜託"},{"start":24812.65,"end":24814.65,"text":"我不是要您的道歉"},{"start":24814.65,"end":24816.65,"text":"而已 這個絕對不對"},{"start":24816.65,"end":24818.65,"text":"我沒有贏 我要的是"},{"start":24818.65,"end":24820.65,"text":"更精進的方案 所以也請"},{"start":24820.65,"end":24822.65,"text":"會後一定要讓我知道"},{"start":24822.65,"end":24824.65,"text":"我也要相關的知道你們的"},{"start":24824.65,"end":24826.65,"text":"精進方案 以上"},{"start":24827.84,"end":24829.84,"text":"好 那我也表達我剛剛"},{"start":24829.84,"end":24831.84,"text":"8185868788"},{"start":24831.84,"end":24833.84,"text":"我改主權意"},{"start":24833.84,"end":24835.84,"text":"那剛剛是不是"},{"start":24835.84,"end":24837.84,"text":"自強委員跟羅昭偉"},{"start":24837.84,"end":24839.84,"text":"是確定是"},{"start":24839.84,"end":24841.84,"text":"兩個文策院的案"},{"start":24841.84,"end":24843.84,"text":"是並動一千萬嗎"},{"start":24843.84,"end":24845.84,"text":"那部長可以接受嗎"},{"start":24846.15,"end":24848.15,"text":"等一下 等一下"},{"start":24848.15,"end":24850.15,"text":"我們先討論完"},{"start":24850.15,"end":24852.15,"text":"因為他這個68案"},{"start":24852.15,"end":24854.15,"text":"那我前面我自己有60案"},{"start":24854.15,"end":24856.15,"text":"那待會再一起談"},{"start":24856.15,"end":24858.15,"text":"蔡順同委員跟"},{"start":24858.15,"end":24860.15,"text":"吳佩儀委員"},{"start":24862.25,"end":24864.25,"text":"因為我的案子"},{"start":24864.25,"end":24866.25,"text":"70案是跟羅委員"},{"start":24866.25,"end":24868.25,"text":"是同案"},{"start":24868.25,"end":24870.25,"text":"那我的部分"},{"start":24870.25,"end":24872.25,"text":"就跟羅委員並動"},{"start":24872.25,"end":24874.25,"text":"以上"},{"start":24875.23,"end":24877.23,"text":"好 蔡順同委員講完"},{"start":24877.23,"end":24879.23,"text":"那我們就吳佩儀委員"},{"start":24879.26,"end":24881.26,"text":"好 就是雖然我個人蠻喜歡"},{"start":24881.26,"end":24883.26,"text":"公佛這部片 我也是春風的粉絲"},{"start":24883.26,"end":24885.26,"text":"但是 我也認同說"},{"start":24885.26,"end":24887.26,"text":"文策院在投資上面確實要"},{"start":24887.26,"end":24889.26,"text":"有所調整 所以我要再次提醒"},{"start":24889.26,"end":24891.26,"text":"因為提醒過文策院很多次"},{"start":24891.26,"end":24893.26,"text":"就是我們過去對音樂產業的"},{"start":24893.26,"end":24895.26,"text":"投資是偏少"},{"start":24895.26,"end":24897.26,"text":"而且是大量偏少的 這個比例"},{"start":24897.26,"end":24899.26,"text":"上面請文策院真的要整體"},{"start":24899.26,"end":24901.26,"text":"的來去平衡跟衡量"},{"start":24901.26,"end":24903.26,"text":"好 這個是我也希望"},{"start":24903.26,"end":24905.26,"text":"要列入今天的會議記錄 這個也"},{"start":24905.26,"end":24907.26,"text":"要拜託部長"},{"start":24911.1,"end":24913.1,"text":"好 那還有沒有委員有意見"},{"start":24915.66,"end":24917.66,"text":"主席我的是"},{"start":24917.66,"end":24919.66,"text":"59案跟75案"},{"start":24919.66,"end":24921.66,"text":"就並動 謝謝"},{"start":24924.1,"end":24926.1,"text":"好 委員所提的麻煩請幫忙"},{"start":24926.1,"end":24928.1,"text":"一一的列下來"},{"start":24929.92,"end":24931.92,"text":"可以啊 可以啊 可以啊"},{"start":24931.92,"end":24933.92,"text":"謝謝主席 因為我的案子是64"},{"start":24933.92,"end":24935.92,"text":"那其實"},{"start":24936.75,"end":24938.75,"text":"我覺得說"},{"start":24938.75,"end":24940.75,"text":"我是肯定我們"},{"start":24940.75,"end":24942.75,"text":"本身在這個業務上是"},{"start":24942.75,"end":24944.75,"text":"大家都非常努力與認真"},{"start":24944.75,"end":24946.75,"text":"那我這個案子我改組"},{"start":24946.75,"end":24948.75,"text":"決議 謝謝"},{"start":24952.78,"end":24954.78,"text":"好 那 村村委員"},{"start":24954.78,"end":24956.78,"text":"對不起 對不起 蘇彬委員"},{"start":24956.78,"end":24958.78,"text":"再國語行委員"},{"start":24958.4,"end":24960.4,"text":"我想請問 因為我剛才是"},{"start":24960.4,"end":24962.4,"text":"丟61案 可是還沒有聽到"},{"start":24962.4,"end":24964.4,"text":"文化部的這個說明"},{"start":24964.4,"end":24966.4,"text":"回覆 是不是等一下會再"},{"start":24966.4,"end":24968.4,"text":"處理 那"},{"start":24968.4,"end":24970.4,"text":"沒有 只要你提出來 我就會要求他回覆"},{"start":24970.4,"end":24972.4,"text":"OK 我剛才有提問啦"},{"start":24972.4,"end":24974.4,"text":"來 麻煩61的要記得回覆喔"},{"start":24974.4,"end":24976.4,"text":"不要沒回覆到 再來"},{"start":24976.4,"end":24978.4,"text":"給你時間準備一下喔 村村委員"},{"start":24983.19,"end":24985.19,"text":"好 那那個"},{"start":24985.19,"end":24987.19,"text":"66案喔"},{"start":24987.19,"end":24989.19,"text":"等一下請"},{"start":24989.19,"end":24991.19,"text":"說明一下 然後78"},{"start":24991.19,"end":24993.19,"text":"案 78"},{"start":24993.19,"end":24995.19,"text":"78案 這個呢"},{"start":24995.19,"end":24997.19,"text":"可以改成主決議"},{"start":24997.19,"end":24999.19,"text":"但是呢 必須"},{"start":24999.19,"end":25001.19,"text":"提供"},{"start":25001.19,"end":25003.19,"text":"書面報告"},{"start":25003.19,"end":25005.19,"text":"那66案呢 不好意思 是79"},{"start":25005.19,"end":25007.19,"text":"案嗎 79案"},{"start":25007.19,"end":25009.19,"text":"對 那個文化幣"},{"start":25009.25,"end":25011.25,"text":"文化幣的部分喔"},{"start":25011.25,"end":25013.25,"text":"可以改成主決議"},{"start":25013.25,"end":25015.25,"text":"那有關於"},{"start":25015.25,"end":25017.25,"text":"那個"},{"start":25017.25,"end":25019.25,"text":"有一些書面 書面要做"},{"start":25019.25,"end":25021.25,"text":"報告 需要改善的"},{"start":25021.25,"end":25023.25,"text":"請"},{"start":25023.25,"end":25025.25,"text":"報告過來喔"},{"start":25025.33,"end":25027.33,"text":"以上"},{"start":25027.2,"end":25029.2,"text":"這個文化部呢"},{"start":25029.2,"end":25031.2,"text":"需要提出各支"},{"start":25031.2,"end":25033.2,"text":"資安跟文化"},{"start":25033.2,"end":25035.2,"text":"盡用成效的一個報告"},{"start":25038.98,"end":25040.98,"text":"好 我的部分"},{"start":25040.98,"end":25042.98,"text":"剛剛就是除了"},{"start":25042.98,"end":25044.98,"text":"67有改主決議"},{"start":25044.98,"end":25046.98,"text":"那828384"},{"start":25046.98,"end":25048.98,"text":"我都改主決議"},{"start":25048.98,"end":25050.98,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":25052.09,"end":25056.09,"text":"好 麻煩請依照委員剛剛所提主決議的部分"},{"start":25056.09,"end":25058.09,"text":"一一的都列上"},{"start":25058.73,"end":25060.73,"text":"好 那接下來"},{"start":25060.73,"end":25062.73,"text":"我們現在要處理有關於"},{"start":25062.73,"end":25064.73,"text":"54到89案"},{"start":25064.73,"end":25066.73,"text":"那"},{"start":25068.01,"end":25070.01,"text":"喔對不起 六十一案"},{"start":25070.01,"end":25072.01,"text":"六十一案要說明"},{"start":25072.01,"end":25074.01,"text":"還有村長委員你說幾案沒說明"},{"start":25075.08,"end":25077.08,"text":"66嗎"},{"start":25077.2,"end":25079.2,"text":"66嗎"},{"start":25079.2,"end":25081.2,"text":"好 66跟6億麻煩請文化不說明"},{"start":25081.2,"end":25083.2,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":25086.91,"end":25088.91,"text":"我先說明那個密西陶托跟"},{"start":25088.91,"end":25090.91,"text":"空總的事情就是劉樹斌委員"},{"start":25090.91,"end":25092.91,"text":"跟蔡主持委員的詢問喔"},{"start":25092.91,"end":25094.91,"text":"密西陶托這件事是這樣"},{"start":25094.91,"end":25096.91,"text":"那事實上本來在這個"},{"start":25096.91,"end":25098.91,"text":"產業裡面的場地跟質安"},{"start":25098.91,"end":25100.91,"text":"其實是有既有的法規"},{"start":25100.91,"end":25102.91,"text":"那但是因為密西陶托是一個新的"},{"start":25102.91,"end":25104.91,"text":"模式形態"},{"start":25104.91,"end":25106.91,"text":"所以呢現在我們"},{"start":25106.91,"end":25108.91,"text":"文化部呢會找包括"},{"start":25108.91,"end":25110.91,"text":"勞動部 還有地方政府"},{"start":25110.91,"end":25112.91,"text":"還有內政部 我們會有一個"},{"start":25112.91,"end":25114.91,"text":"類似像宣導會的"},{"start":25114.91,"end":25116.91,"text":"把這個到底在密西陶托裡面"},{"start":25116.91,"end":25118.91,"text":"要遵循的一些相關規範"},{"start":25118.91,"end":25120.91,"text":"主要是定情化契約的指引"},{"start":25120.91,"end":25122.91,"text":"會提供出來"},{"start":25122.91,"end":25124.91,"text":"讓大家知道說在這個"},{"start":25124.91,"end":25126.91,"text":"新興的密西陶托的模式裡面"},{"start":25126.91,"end":25128.91,"text":"因為他是一個 其實他的確是"},{"start":25128.91,"end":25130.91,"text":"像委員說的 他是採全實名制"},{"start":25130.91,"end":25132.91,"text":"而且是小型 他比電影的人次"},{"start":25132.91,"end":25134.91,"text":"更少 更能控制場域"},{"start":25134.91,"end":25136.91,"text":"但是在這個模擬"},{"start":25136.91,"end":25138.91,"text":"就是虛實交錯的情境裡面"},{"start":25138.91,"end":25140.91,"text":"如何維持質安這件事情可能"},{"start":25140.91,"end":25142.91,"text":"大家並不熟悉 所以我們會跟"},{"start":25142.91,"end":25144.91,"text":"勞動部一起 然後會找地方政府來進行"},{"start":25144.91,"end":25146.91,"text":"這樣子的協調跟宣導工作"},{"start":25146.91,"end":25148.91,"text":"那另外空總的部分是"},{"start":25148.91,"end":25150.91,"text":"空總的部分其實現在"},{"start":25150.91,"end":25152.91,"text":"他已經修好的地方的利用率"},{"start":25152.91,"end":25154.91,"text":"是很高的 他幾乎已經修好"},{"start":25154.91,"end":25156.91,"text":"的地方利用率都是百分之百 都是"},{"start":25156.91,"end":25158.91,"text":"一個空間很難求的"},{"start":25158.91,"end":25160.91,"text":"那現在看到使用率還"},{"start":25160.91,"end":25162.91,"text":"不好的地方是因為他基本上"},{"start":25162.91,"end":25164.91,"text":"還沒有進行完成古蹟修復"},{"start":25164.91,"end":25166.91,"text":"所以在這幾個文創園區裡面"},{"start":25166.91,"end":25168.91,"text":"其實大家都面臨類似的問題"},{"start":25168.91,"end":25170.91,"text":"就是他一旦修好了之後 現在大家"},{"start":25170.91,"end":25172.91,"text":"看到的像華山 這種就是他修好之後的利用狀況"},{"start":25172.91,"end":25174.91,"text":"那現在空總正在"},{"start":25174.91,"end":25176.91,"text":"修復當中 古蹟大樓馬上"},{"start":25176.91,"end":25178.91,"text":"會在七月的部分完成修復"},{"start":25178.91,"end":25180.91,"text":"那另外花蓮的部分也大部分修好"},{"start":25180.91,"end":25182.91,"text":"所以花蓮文創園區也開始漸漸"},{"start":25182.91,"end":25184.91,"text":"有更多的使用率"},{"start":25184.91,"end":25186.91,"text":"跟更多的團體進駐"},{"start":25186.91,"end":25188.91,"text":"那在加創的部分也會進入新的一波"},{"start":25188.91,"end":25190.91,"text":"修復 那主要是因為這些文創園區"},{"start":25190.91,"end":25192.91,"text":"為什麼會交給文化部 都是"},{"start":25192.91,"end":25194.91,"text":"因為他是所謂的文資 文化資產"},{"start":25194.91,"end":25196.91,"text":"或者是他是一個歷史"},{"start":25196.91,"end":25198.91,"text":"建物 那基本上接收的時候"},{"start":25198.91,"end":25200.91,"text":"第一動都是要先編公務預算"},{"start":25200.91,"end":25202.91,"text":"先把它修復成堪用的狀態"},{"start":25202.91,"end":25204.91,"text":"他才會有接下來的營運"},{"start":25204.91,"end":25208.91,"text":"跟這個復興跟商業模式的出現"},{"start":25208.91,"end":25210.91,"text":"所以在花的時間會比較長 但是在"},{"start":25210.91,"end":25212.91,"text":"目前為止每個園創園區的計畫"},{"start":25212.91,"end":25214.91,"text":"都已經提出計畫並且在進行中"},{"start":25214.91,"end":25216.91,"text":"那委員關心的空總的計畫"},{"start":25216.91,"end":25218.91,"text":"目前的確在今年是一個古蹟"},{"start":25218.91,"end":25220.91,"text":"修復計畫 那在"},{"start":25220.91,"end":25222.91,"text":"修復完之後 當然這些空間就會"},{"start":25222.91,"end":25224.91,"text":"可以被更加的善用 也提高利用率"},{"start":25224.91,"end":25226.91,"text":"以上補充"},{"start":25229.3,"end":25231.3,"text":"好"},{"start":25231.05,"end":25233.05,"text":"劉書變委"},{"start":25261.05,"end":25263.05,"text":"好"},{"start":25271.38,"end":25273.38,"text":"我這邊就"},{"start":25273.38,"end":25275.38,"text":"針對我的"},{"start":25275.38,"end":25277.38,"text":"是凍結是兩千萬"},{"start":25277.38,"end":25279.38,"text":"那我覺得因為要看"},{"start":25279.38,"end":25281.38,"text":"這必須需要比較多的協商的部分"},{"start":25281.38,"end":25283.38,"text":"那而且真的是值得去投資"},{"start":25283.38,"end":25285.38,"text":"去關注這個產業"},{"start":25285.38,"end":25287.38,"text":"而且他們就是"},{"start":25287.38,"end":25289.38,"text":"因為文化部是主管機構 所以想說"},{"start":25289.38,"end":25291.38,"text":"比較富比較大 所以我會想說還是凍結"},{"start":25291.38,"end":25293.38,"text":"大概四百萬 這樣子"},{"start":25294.89,"end":25296.89,"text":"好 有委員提自己"},{"start":25296.89,"end":25298.89,"text":"OK 沒關係"},{"start":25300.24,"end":25302.24,"text":"有委員提一千 有委員提四百"},{"start":25302.24,"end":25304.24,"text":"好 待會再討論要不要合併並動"},{"start":25304.24,"end":25306.24,"text":"好 我知道"},{"start":25308,"end":25310,"text":"好 還有沒有 存受委員"},{"start":25311.72,"end":25313.72,"text":"好 針對那個"},{"start":25313.72,"end":25315.72,"text":"66案 那我們希望文化部能夠"},{"start":25315.72,"end":25317.72,"text":"提出"},{"start":25317.72,"end":25319.72,"text":"這個"},{"start":25319.72,"end":25321.72,"text":"順便報告 就是整個"},{"start":25321.72,"end":25323.72,"text":"計畫的一個進度跟"},{"start":25323.72,"end":25325.72,"text":"合併的內容 還有空間"},{"start":25325.72,"end":25327.72,"text":"使用跟閒置的改善"},{"start":25327.72,"end":25329.72,"text":"還有使用人次跟公共"},{"start":25329.72,"end":25331.72,"text":"禁用採購 還有"},{"start":25331.72,"end":25333.72,"text":"執行的期程 都能夠"},{"start":25333.72,"end":25335.72,"text":"自用跟契約承諾"},{"start":25335.72,"end":25337.72,"text":"這個順便報告完之後"},{"start":25337.72,"end":25339.72,"text":"那我就凍結一百萬"},{"start":25343.76,"end":25345.76,"text":"好 一千四百"},{"start":25345.76,"end":25347.76,"text":"一百 要不要討論待會並動"},{"start":25347.76,"end":25349.76,"text":"再一起說 來 我知道委員"},{"start":25349.76,"end":25351.76,"text":"對於處理預算"},{"start":25351.76,"end":25353.76,"text":"我的建議是這樣"},{"start":25353.76,"end":25355.76,"text":"因為志強委員有提 存受委員"},{"start":25355.76,"end":25357.76,"text":"跟疏兵委員都有提"},{"start":25357.76,"end":25359.76,"text":"那各有不同的數額"},{"start":25359.76,"end":25361.76,"text":"那我覺得我們就取其高者"},{"start":25361.76,"end":25363.76,"text":"就是這一整幕"},{"start":25363.76,"end":25365.76,"text":"我們就凍結一千萬"},{"start":25365.76,"end":25367.76,"text":"但是他們去協調這幾個"},{"start":25367.76,"end":25369.76,"text":"該做的這個自己去著語調度"},{"start":25369.76,"end":25371.76,"text":"我覺得就是給文化部"},{"start":25371.76,"end":25373.76,"text":"一個很重的提醒"},{"start":25373.76,"end":25375.76,"text":"並動一千萬 我們就取其高者"},{"start":25375.76,"end":25377.76,"text":"那是不是真的大家的同意"},{"start":25377.76,"end":25379.76,"text":"我個人是"},{"start":25379.76,"end":25381.76,"text":"都該主決議"},{"start":25381.76,"end":25383.76,"text":"好 右委員提一千"},{"start":25383.76,"end":25385.76,"text":"一千一千四百"},{"start":25385.76,"end":25387.76,"text":"一百 待會大家一起討論"},{"start":25390.59,"end":25392.59,"text":"要不要並動"},{"start":25392.51,"end":25394.51,"text":"所以我建議就是 並動"},{"start":25394.51,"end":25396.51,"text":"取其高者嘛 就是一整幕"},{"start":25396.51,"end":25398.51,"text":"並動一千萬"},{"start":25406.62,"end":25408.62,"text":"我是六十岸了齁"},{"start":25411.7,"end":25413.7,"text":"那因為我六十岸呢 只有"},{"start":25413.7,"end":25415.7,"text":"一百啦齁"},{"start":25418.1,"end":25420.1,"text":"是不是跟羅志祥委員協調一下"},{"start":25420.1,"end":25422.1,"text":"我們是不是就"},{"start":25422.1,"end":25424.1,"text":"把他給夾在一起"},{"start":25425.66,"end":25427.66,"text":"好"},{"start":25426.82,"end":25428.82,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":25429.57,"end":25431.57,"text":"但是我講真的就是說"},{"start":25431.57,"end":25433.57,"text":"我不是針對文化部"},{"start":25433.57,"end":25435.57,"text":"你看我還特別為了你"},{"start":25435.57,"end":25437.57,"text":"調出113年的質詢稿"},{"start":25437.57,"end":25439.57,"text":"跟你講說這真的太過分了"},{"start":25439.57,"end":25441.57,"text":"113年就虧到現在了"},{"start":25441.57,"end":25443.57,"text":"這不是今年第一起虧"},{"start":25443.57,"end":25445.57,"text":"虧好幾年了"},{"start":25445.57,"end":25447.57,"text":"所以志祥委員是不是"},{"start":25447.57,"end":25449.57,"text":"再加個三百"},{"start":25449.94,"end":25451.94,"text":"一千三"},{"start":25452.4,"end":25454.4,"text":"一千三 我沒有說"},{"start":25454.4,"end":25456.4,"text":"一千五兩千"},{"start":25456.4,"end":25458.4,"text":"志祥委如果我們都取其"},{"start":25458.4,"end":25460.4,"text":"沒有我跟志祥委商量一下"},{"start":25460.4,"end":25462.4,"text":"因為大家都取其高者"},{"start":25462.4,"end":25464.4,"text":"那你剛剛是一百嘛"},{"start":25464.4,"end":25466.4,"text":"那他是一千 取其高者也不會"},{"start":25466.4,"end":25468.4,"text":"變成一百加一千變一千三"},{"start":25468.4,"end":25470.4,"text":"那我們這樣商量一下"},{"start":25470.4,"end":25472.4,"text":"不會啦 就是因為我想"},{"start":25472.4,"end":25474.4,"text":"幾個案子委員提案就是並動"},{"start":25474.4,"end":25476.4,"text":"但是案子都列在並動的"},{"start":25476.4,"end":25478.4,"text":"這個項目裡面"},{"start":25478.4,"end":25480.4,"text":"我覺得都達到 您的一百萬"},{"start":25480.4,"end":25482.4,"text":"也在這個一千萬裡頭 好不好"},{"start":25482.4,"end":25484.4,"text":"真的 我是再次"},{"start":25484.4,"end":25486.4,"text":"拜託可不可以這樣子處理"},{"start":25486.4,"end":25488.4,"text":"我表達我的意見"},{"start":25488.94,"end":25490.94,"text":"我真的覺得"},{"start":25492.89,"end":25494.89,"text":"就是無效委員"},{"start":25495.64,"end":25497.64,"text":"如果我跟你同黨 我一定覺得你真的超認真"},{"start":25499.64,"end":25501.64,"text":"你真的很努力在捍衛"},{"start":25501.64,"end":25503.64,"text":"你應該覺得我很認真"},{"start":25503.64,"end":25505.64,"text":"就一千萬啦 就一件文化預算真的很辛苦"},{"start":25505.64,"end":25507.64,"text":"不是因為我們兩個人的藍綠質別"},{"start":25507.64,"end":25509.64,"text":"而是我們站的角度不同"},{"start":25509.64,"end":25511.64,"text":"因為您畢竟執政黨"},{"start":25511.64,"end":25513.64,"text":"在野黨的監督還是要"},{"start":25513.64,"end":25515.64,"text":"非常的謹慎"},{"start":25515.64,"end":25517.64,"text":"當然啦 所以我們取其高啊 就是一千萬啦"},{"start":25517.64,"end":25519.64,"text":"請主席採取啦"},{"start":25519.64,"end":25521.64,"text":"我懇求志祥委員幫忙"},{"start":25521.64,"end":25523.64,"text":"提升到一千三"},{"start":25523.64,"end":25525.64,"text":"取其高啦"},{"start":25525.64,"end":25527.64,"text":"那志祥委員看怎麼樣"},{"start":25528.37,"end":25530.37,"text":"那個部長"},{"start":25530.37,"end":25532.37,"text":"就是一千三百萬"},{"start":25532.37,"end":25534.37,"text":"跟一千三"},{"start":25534.53,"end":25536.53,"text":"我一千一 好不好"},{"start":25536.53,"end":25538.53,"text":"就是他的一千加您的一百"},{"start":25539.04,"end":25541.04,"text":"一千一 一千三"},{"start":25541.04,"end":25543.04,"text":"我這個真的 欸 周圍你自己的案是一百捏"},{"start":25543.04,"end":25545.04,"text":"啊你現在變三百"},{"start":25545.04,"end":25547.04,"text":"你會替案是動一百捏"},{"start":25547.04,"end":25549.04,"text":"志祥委員會為了我改一千三嗎"},{"start":25549.04,"end":25551.04,"text":"他一千啊 他會為了我改一千"},{"start":25551.04,"end":25553.04,"text":"沒有啊 志祥委員沒有 他剛剛講了一千啊"},{"start":25553.04,"end":25555.04,"text":"他如果沒有為了我改一千三"},{"start":25555.04,"end":25557.04,"text":"那我就認了"},{"start":25556.4,"end":25558.4,"text":"就沒有啊 就沒有啊"},{"start":25559.66,"end":25561.66,"text":"好啦 取其中嘛"},{"start":25561.66,"end":25563.66,"text":"一千二好了啦 可以啦"},{"start":25564.01,"end":25566.01,"text":"那就一一五零了 好不好"},{"start":25566.01,"end":25568.01,"text":"一千三跟一千一"},{"start":25568.01,"end":25570.01,"text":"給周圍尊重啦 一一五零啦"},{"start":25570.01,"end":25572.01,"text":"可以啦 一一五零啦"},{"start":25572.01,"end":25574.01,"text":"真的 文化律師很辛苦啦 好 謝謝啦"},{"start":25574.01,"end":25576.01,"text":"我們現場就一一五零了"},{"start":25576.01,"end":25578.01,"text":"但是我還是要提醒文化部"},{"start":25578.01,"end":25580.01,"text":"還有第二輪"},{"start":25580.01,"end":25582.01,"text":"該逃的逃不過"},{"start":25582.01,"end":25584.01,"text":"趕緊跟委員"},{"start":25584.01,"end":25586.01,"text":"做一個解釋"},{"start":25586.01,"end":25588.01,"text":"你們要怎麼進進"},{"start":25588.85,"end":25590.85,"text":"如果在這段時間你們的精進方案"},{"start":25590.85,"end":25592.85,"text":"沒有生出來"},{"start":25593.22,"end":25595.22,"text":"我想不是只有我"},{"start":25595.22,"end":25597.22,"text":"別的委員也不會"},{"start":25597.22,"end":25599.22,"text":"輕易的放過這一個機會"},{"start":25599.22,"end":25601.22,"text":"監督的機會"},{"start":25601.22,"end":25603.22,"text":"而且是已經"},{"start":25603.22,"end":25605.22,"text":"歷歷在目賠錢"},{"start":25605.22,"end":25607.22,"text":"這麼誇張的慘賠"},{"start":25607.22,"end":25609.22,"text":"所以委員的堅持會在第二輪"},{"start":25609.22,"end":25611.22,"text":"再次出現"},{"start":25611.06,"end":25613.06,"text":"不是不報 只是時候未到"},{"start":25613.06,"end":25615.06,"text":"所以今天我可以先退"},{"start":25615.06,"end":25617.06,"text":"一千一百五十動結"},{"start":25617.06,"end":25619.06,"text":"但是麻煩你們"},{"start":25619.06,"end":25621.06,"text":"第二輪之前請給予我們"},{"start":25621.06,"end":25623.06,"text":"最慎重的一個"},{"start":25623.06,"end":25625.06,"text":"跟進"},{"start":25624.26,"end":25626.26,"text":"更新方案"},{"start":25626.26,"end":25628.26,"text":"好 第54案到89案"},{"start":25629.07,"end":25631.07,"text":"改為主決議"},{"start":25644.78,"end":25646.78,"text":"還有89案"},{"start":25646.78,"end":25650.78,"text":"那我們本幕合併動結"},{"start":25650.78,"end":25652.78,"text":"一千一百五十萬"},{"start":25652.78,"end":25654.78,"text":"提出書面報告"},{"start":25654.78,"end":25656.78,"text":"而且要經由委員同意"},{"start":25656.78,"end":25658.78,"text":"才可以使得動之"},{"start":25658.78,"end":25660.78,"text":"現在處理第五幕"},{"start":25660.78,"end":25664.78,"text":"影視流行音樂發展業務"},{"start":25664.78,"end":25668.78,"text":"第一節提案號是90-118"},{"start":25680.43,"end":25682.43,"text":"好 好"},{"start":25683.02,"end":25685.02,"text":"我想跟大家拜託一下"},{"start":25685.02,"end":25687.02,"text":"我們休息五分鐘好不好"},{"start":25686.29,"end":25688.29,"text":"不好意思 謝謝"},{"start":25689.51,"end":25691.51,"text":"我們待會從後發言"},{"start":26128.58,"end":26130.58,"text":"好 現在開會"},{"start":26137.91,"end":26139.91,"text":"我們從90案到118案"},{"start":26139.91,"end":26141.91,"text":"從後面開始"},{"start":26142.3,"end":26144.3,"text":"Nah"},{"start":26144.57,"end":26146.57,"text":"沒關係啊 沒關係啊"},{"start":26146.57,"end":26148.57,"text":"陳佩玉委員先"},{"start":26148.57,"end":26150.57,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":26150.57,"end":26152.57,"text":"這邊我只有一案喔"},{"start":26152.57,"end":26154.57,"text":"是125公共電視的案子"},{"start":26154.57,"end":26156.57,"text":"那其中第一"},{"start":26156.57,"end":26158.57,"text":"關於公共電視之前"},{"start":26158.57,"end":26160.57,"text":"有一些問題都已經解決了"},{"start":26160.57,"end":26162.57,"text":"但是還有一個部分"},{"start":26162.57,"end":26164.57,"text":"就是關於小公視的自治率"},{"start":26164.57,"end":26166.57,"text":"我們當然知道逐年提升"},{"start":26166.57,"end":26168.57,"text":"我們都還是希望可以持續加油"},{"start":26168.57,"end":26170.57,"text":"希望未來有越來越多的"},{"start":26170.57,"end":26172.57,"text":"相關產業人士"},{"start":26172.57,"end":26174.57,"text":"然後也有把這樣的節目送到小公視上"},{"start":26174.57,"end":26176.57,"text":"那所以這個部分"},{"start":26176.57,"end":26178.57,"text":"一來溝通後我們可以改主決議"},{"start":26178.57,"end":26180.57,"text":"125案 謝謝"},{"start":26185.07,"end":26187.07,"text":"陳佩玉委員提醒你一下"},{"start":26187.07,"end":26189.07,"text":"不好意思 那你的發言"},{"start":26189.07,"end":26191.07,"text":"就超出範圍了"},{"start":26191.07,"end":26193.07,"text":"待會你可以這一案就不用講"},{"start":26193.07,"end":26195.07,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":26195.07,"end":26197.07,"text":"我們是90到118"},{"start":26197.07,"end":26199.07,"text":"案你是125"},{"start":26200.58,"end":26202.58,"text":"就是我們一樣列入記錄"},{"start":26202.58,"end":26204.58,"text":"但是就是先跟你講一下"},{"start":26204.58,"end":26206.58,"text":"因為我剛以為已經處理到後面"},{"start":26206.58,"end":26208.58,"text":"沒關係 沒關係"},{"start":26209.04,"end":26211.04,"text":"好 吳佩玉委員"},{"start":26214.96,"end":26216.96,"text":"恩仇委員"},{"start":26218.08,"end":26220.08,"text":"好"},{"start":26224.7,"end":26228.7,"text":"好 我有兩個案"},{"start":26228.7,"end":26230.7,"text":"第一個是102的"},{"start":26230.7,"end":26232.7,"text":"那個"},{"start":26232.7,"end":26234.7,"text":"黃油票的"},{"start":26234.7,"end":26236.7,"text":"這樣的一個防治案"},{"start":26236.7,"end":26238.7,"text":"那這個"},{"start":26238.7,"end":26240.7,"text":"那個黃油票"},{"start":26240.7,"end":26242.7,"text":"的確是讓民眾"},{"start":26242.7,"end":26244.7,"text":"真的是很有感"},{"start":26244.7,"end":26246.7,"text":"在文化消費的一個問題上"},{"start":26246.7,"end":26248.7,"text":"我們希望文化部能"},{"start":26248.7,"end":26250.7,"text":"能夠做一個"},{"start":26250.7,"end":26252.7,"text":"比較有魄力的改善"},{"start":26252.7,"end":26254.7,"text":"不要只有先試"},{"start":26254.7,"end":26256.7,"text":"那必須提出"},{"start":26256.7,"end":26258.7,"text":"那個查緝"},{"start":26258.7,"end":26260.7,"text":"平台合作還有制度的改善"},{"start":26260.7,"end":26262.7,"text":"希望都能夠"},{"start":26262.7,"end":26264.7,"text":"做到位"},{"start":26264.7,"end":26266.7,"text":"那這個案子我是先凍結"},{"start":26266.7,"end":26268.7,"text":"200萬"},{"start":26268.7,"end":26270.7,"text":"那第二個案是108"},{"start":26270.7,"end":26272.7,"text":"案 那108案"},{"start":26272.7,"end":26274.7,"text":"的是那個"},{"start":26274.7,"end":26276.7,"text":"案"},{"start":26276.7,"end":26278.7,"text":"案內影視基地的一個影印"},{"start":26278.7,"end":26280.7,"text":"那影視"},{"start":26280.7,"end":26282.7,"text":"基地它最主要"},{"start":26282.7,"end":26284.7,"text":"能夠使用能夠影印"},{"start":26284.7,"end":26286.7,"text":"而且能夠帶動產業"},{"start":26286.7,"end":26288.7,"text":"那不能變成"},{"start":26288.7,"end":26290.7,"text":"只蓋然後不影印"},{"start":26290.7,"end":26292.7,"text":"那這個案子"},{"start":26292.7,"end":26294.7,"text":"其實我個人是相當"},{"start":26294.7,"end":26296.7,"text":"有興趣的 我覺得這個"},{"start":26296.7,"end":26298.7,"text":"就是屬於地方創生的一環"},{"start":26298.7,"end":26300.7,"text":"可以帶動地方的一個"},{"start":26300.7,"end":26302.7,"text":"一個經濟的"},{"start":26302.7,"end":26304.7,"text":"一個經濟的一個"},{"start":26304.7,"end":26306.7,"text":"繁榮 這個是我看好"},{"start":26306.7,"end":26308.7,"text":"那也希望說能夠真正"},{"start":26308.7,"end":26310.7,"text":"我們不要提出那個基地的使用"},{"start":26310.7,"end":26312.7,"text":"招商還有制裁"},{"start":26312.7,"end":26314.7,"text":"還有"},{"start":26314.7,"end":26316.7,"text":"委運成本的一個報告出來"},{"start":26316.7,"end":26318.7,"text":"那這個"},{"start":26318.7,"end":26320.7,"text":"我是"},{"start":26322.7,"end":26324.7,"text":"凍結1000萬"},{"start":26324.7,"end":26326.7,"text":"那等一下先"},{"start":26326.7,"end":26328.7,"text":"聽說明之後再來做處理"},{"start":26329.96,"end":26331.96,"text":"1 2"},{"start":26332.26,"end":26334.26,"text":"好 我們下"},{"start":26338.15,"end":26340.15,"text":"好 那另外一案"},{"start":26340.15,"end":26342.15,"text":"是Taiwan Plus的"},{"start":26342.15,"end":26344.15,"text":"不是不能夠支持"},{"start":26344.15,"end":26346.15,"text":"但是在國際傳播還要看境外"},{"start":26346.15,"end":26348.15,"text":"境外的一個觸及"},{"start":26348.15,"end":26350.15,"text":"還有留存跟觀眾"},{"start":26350.15,"end":26352.15,"text":"觀看跟轉換"},{"start":26352.15,"end":26354.15,"text":"而不是說只有平台的存在"},{"start":26354.15,"end":26356.15,"text":"那我們希望"},{"start":26356.68,"end":26358.68,"text":"文化部能夠"},{"start":26358.68,"end":26360.68,"text":"會同公視能夠提出一個"},{"start":26360.68,"end":26362.68,"text":"很完整的一個"},{"start":26362.68,"end":26364.68,"text":"績效報告"},{"start":26364.68,"end":26366.68,"text":"那在天下雜誌的一個調查裡面"},{"start":26366.68,"end":26368.68,"text":"也有說"},{"start":26368.68,"end":26370.68,"text":"其實有2.6億"},{"start":26370.68,"end":26372.68,"text":"的一個"},{"start":26372.68,"end":26374.68,"text":"2.6億次的一個影片"},{"start":26374.68,"end":26376.68,"text":"觀看"},{"start":26376.68,"end":26378.68,"text":"觀看"},{"start":26378.68,"end":26380.68,"text":"有達到97%"},{"start":26380.68,"end":26382.68,"text":"但是它的流量還有下載"},{"start":26382.68,"end":26384.68,"text":"確實不到"},{"start":26384.68,"end":26386.68,"text":"兩成"},{"start":26386.68,"end":26388.68,"text":"那在這個地方"},{"start":26388.68,"end":26390.68,"text":"我希望"},{"start":26390.68,"end":26392.68,"text":"這一個Taiwan Plus"},{"start":26392.68,"end":26394.68,"text":"還是有他們努力的空間"},{"start":26394.68,"end":26396.68,"text":"那在國外"},{"start":26396.68,"end":26398.68,"text":"事實上是前些"},{"start":26398.68,"end":26400.68,"text":"台灣在那個國外"},{"start":26400.68,"end":26402.68,"text":"是沒有那個聲音"},{"start":26402.68,"end":26404.68,"text":"還有編輯是沒有被"},{"start":26404.68,"end":26406.68,"text":"外國人看到了"},{"start":26406.68,"end":26408.68,"text":"那在這個部分我們希望能夠加油"},{"start":26408.68,"end":26410.68,"text":"那"},{"start":26410.68,"end":26412.68,"text":"這一個"},{"start":26412.68,"end":26414.68,"text":"文化部的解釋"},{"start":26414.68,"end":26416.68,"text":"我們再來處理"},{"start":26416.68,"end":26418.68,"text":"那個監會 以上"},{"start":26419.27,"end":26421.27,"text":"好 下一位陳許若鮑委員"},{"start":26421.98,"end":26423.98,"text":"謝謝主席 在這邊我有兩個案子"},{"start":26423.98,"end":26425.98,"text":"第一個案子是第98案"},{"start":26425.98,"end":26427.98,"text":"98案的部分"},{"start":26427.98,"end":26429.98,"text":"就是關於"},{"start":26429.98,"end":26431.98,"text":"影視音政策規劃不住與"},{"start":26431.98,"end":26433.98,"text":"跨域整合"},{"start":26433.98,"end":26435.98,"text":"我國的藝文工作者到中國"},{"start":26435.98,"end":26437.98,"text":"發展後呢 常常必須用"},{"start":26437.98,"end":26439.98,"text":"配合中國政府的管制措施"},{"start":26439.98,"end":26441.98,"text":"甚至會發表一些傷害"},{"start":26441.98,"end":26443.98,"text":"我國民眾"},{"start":26443.98,"end":26445.98,"text":"這個國家情感的這個言論"},{"start":26445.98,"end":26447.98,"text":"那"},{"start":26447.58,"end":26449.58,"text":"我這邊提這個案子是希望說"},{"start":26449.58,"end":26451.58,"text":"文化部這邊可以對我們"},{"start":26451.58,"end":26453.58,"text":"相關的文化藝術講座規範"},{"start":26453.58,"end":26455.58,"text":"進行檢討 甚至我們"},{"start":26455.58,"end":26457.58,"text":"來研議補助申請資格的限制及"},{"start":26457.58,"end":26459.58,"text":"追討的機制 來為我國"},{"start":26459.58,"end":26461.58,"text":"民眾之國家情感"},{"start":26461.58,"end":26463.58,"text":"那文化部這邊有說明說"},{"start":26463.58,"end":26465.58,"text":"產業界不會說"},{"start":26465.58,"end":26467.58,"text":"為中國市場來調整產製"},{"start":26467.58,"end":26469.58,"text":"內容 也沒有將中國市場立為"},{"start":26469.58,"end":26471.58,"text":"是主要的收入來源"},{"start":26471.58,"end":26473.58,"text":"但是它是一個會納入"},{"start":26473.58,"end":26475.58,"text":"潛在回收的規劃"},{"start":26475.58,"end":26477.58,"text":"我國影視內容在中國發行及宣傳上"},{"start":26477.58,"end":26479.58,"text":"就只能由中國"},{"start":26479.58,"end":26481.58,"text":"公司的主導 我們很難"},{"start":26481.58,"end":26483.58,"text":"介入銷售方向的決定"},{"start":26483.58,"end":26485.58,"text":"我也理解說這是產業難以掌握的"},{"start":26485.58,"end":26487.58,"text":"因素 但是這邊還是要提醒文化部"},{"start":26487.58,"end":26489.58,"text":"就是說我們文化部補助的影視內容"},{"start":26489.58,"end":26491.58,"text":"在中國宣傳都要"},{"start":26491.58,"end":26493.58,"text":"以矮化我國的方式來進行的話"},{"start":26493.58,"end":26495.58,"text":"恐怕會對國際間"},{"start":26495.58,"end":26497.58,"text":"傳遞錯誤的訊息"},{"start":26497.58,"end":26499.58,"text":"例如我們台灣出產的影片"},{"start":26499.58,"end":26501.58,"text":"我們未來到那邊去上架"},{"start":26501.58,"end":26503.58,"text":"上市結果它會變成是"},{"start":26503.58,"end":26505.58,"text":"中國台北 中國台灣"},{"start":26505.58,"end":26507.58,"text":"這樣子在國際間 我覺得"},{"start":26507.58,"end":26509.58,"text":"我們的國際間的這個訊息"},{"start":26509.58,"end":26511.58,"text":"也會是錯誤的 也會讓我們的民眾質疑"},{"start":26511.58,"end":26513.58,"text":"預算的使用是否合適"},{"start":26513.58,"end":26515.58,"text":"所以我希望說"},{"start":26515.58,"end":26517.58,"text":"文化部除了持續辦理拓展"},{"start":26517.58,"end":26519.58,"text":"國際市場業務之外"},{"start":26519.58,"end":26521.58,"text":"我們也去研議有不當言論的"},{"start":26521.58,"end":26523.58,"text":"這個檢討機制"},{"start":26523.58,"end":26525.58,"text":"那第114案的部分呢"},{"start":26526.3,"end":26528.3,"text":"是關於發展國際數位傳播"},{"start":26528.3,"end":26530.3,"text":"或相關的業務"},{"start":26530.3,"end":26532.3,"text":"近年旅遊傳出國際影視音平台"},{"start":26532.3,"end":26534.3,"text":"售購影視音公司的這個消息"},{"start":26534.3,"end":26536.3,"text":"顯見"},{"start":26536.3,"end":26538.3,"text":"在國際間不管是影視音平台"},{"start":26538.3,"end":26540.3,"text":"或是影視音公司都是有合併"},{"start":26540.3,"end":26542.3,"text":"壯大的這個趨勢"},{"start":26542.3,"end":26544.3,"text":"所以我提這個案子也是希望說"},{"start":26544.3,"end":26546.3,"text":"文化部這邊應該要因應"},{"start":26546.3,"end":26548.3,"text":"國際的這個影視音產業的變化"},{"start":26548.3,"end":26552.3,"text":"那滾動式的檢討我國影視音推廣的措施"},{"start":26552.3,"end":26554.3,"text":"文化部這邊有說明說"},{"start":26554.3,"end":26556.3,"text":"黑潮計畫大量投入本土的這個內容產製"},{"start":26556.3,"end":26558.3,"text":"也有透過文策院"},{"start":26558.3,"end":26560.3,"text":"跟國內的電信合作"},{"start":26560.3,"end":26562.3,"text":"組建這個影視基金"},{"start":26562.3,"end":26564.3,"text":"來激起壯大影視的內容"},{"start":26564.3,"end":26566.3,"text":"那在國際市場的開發部分呢"},{"start":26566.3,"end":26568.3,"text":"希望文化部也要"},{"start":26568.3,"end":26570.3,"text":"應該持續透過各種管道"},{"start":26570.3,"end":26572.3,"text":"來協助影視產業"},{"start":26572.3,"end":26574.3,"text":"銷售我們本土優良的這個影視作品"},{"start":26574.3,"end":26576.3,"text":"那等一下請文化部這邊"},{"start":26576.3,"end":26578.3,"text":"再說明一下"},{"start":26578.3,"end":26580.3,"text":"目前國際市場你們開發的情形"},{"start":26580.3,"end":26582.3,"text":"以上"},{"start":26584.04,"end":26586.04,"text":"好"},{"start":26585.19,"end":26587.19,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":26587.19,"end":26589.19,"text":"我是100跟106"},{"start":26589.19,"end":26591.19,"text":"那第100案的部分"},{"start":26591.19,"end":26593.19,"text":"文化部這邊"},{"start":26593.19,"end":26595.19,"text":"已經有來跟我說明"},{"start":26595.19,"end":26597.19,"text":"就是針對這個黃牛的這個"},{"start":26597.19,"end":26599.19,"text":"案件的改善"},{"start":26599.19,"end":26601.19,"text":"那已經有跟這個"},{"start":26601.19,"end":26603.19,"text":"地方政府還有內政部"},{"start":26603.19,"end":26605.19,"text":"還有售票的一些平台建立一些合作的機制"},{"start":26605.19,"end":26607.19,"text":"那我想可能"},{"start":26607.19,"end":26609.19,"text":"這個部分還要再更積極"},{"start":26609.19,"end":26611.19,"text":"包含就是"},{"start":26611.8,"end":26613.8,"text":"防治的一些措施"},{"start":26613.8,"end":26615.8,"text":"還有執行的一個效果"},{"start":26615.8,"end":26617.8,"text":"那來保障這個民眾公平買票"},{"start":26617.8,"end":26619.8,"text":"的權益還有整個"},{"start":26619.8,"end":26621.8,"text":"所有的市場的一個機制"},{"start":26621.8,"end":26623.8,"text":"那這個部分我沒有堅持"},{"start":26623.8,"end":26625.8,"text":"本來是凍結80萬"},{"start":26625.8,"end":26627.8,"text":"我可以改組決議"},{"start":26627.38,"end":26631.38,"text":"好那第106的部分是"},{"start":26631.38,"end":26633.38,"text":"籌建影視廳中心"},{"start":26633.38,"end":26635.38,"text":"二期的一個場館"},{"start":26635.38,"end":26637.38,"text":"那原本好像這個計畫"},{"start":26637.38,"end":26639.38,"text":"其實有稍微的落後"},{"start":26639.38,"end":26641.38,"text":"就是這樣子的一個進度"},{"start":26641.38,"end":26643.38,"text":"那不過文化部也有"},{"start":26643.38,"end":26645.38,"text":"來提到他們的一些說明"},{"start":26645.38,"end":26647.38,"text":"那核定之後會加速這個"},{"start":26647.38,"end":26649.38,"text":"推動的一些工程"},{"start":26649.38,"end":26651.38,"text":"那我想這個二期的"},{"start":26651.38,"end":26653.38,"text":"場館的修正計畫跟"},{"start":26653.38,"end":26655.38,"text":"核定其實還蠻重要的因為"},{"start":26655.38,"end":26657.38,"text":"還是有一些包含我們要確保這個"},{"start":26657.38,"end":26659.38,"text":"典藏的空間"},{"start":26659.38,"end":26661.38,"text":"還有就是相關的一個設施"},{"start":26661.38,"end":26663.38,"text":"那也希望這個部分還是可以"},{"start":26663.38,"end":26665.38,"text":"積極希望能夠如期的完成"},{"start":26665.38,"end":26667.38,"text":"好那這個部分我也可以"},{"start":26667.38,"end":26669.38,"text":"改組決議喔好以上"},{"start":26671.66,"end":26673.66,"text":"好我是藥委員"},{"start":26676.04,"end":26678.04,"text":"好謝謝主席本幕"},{"start":26678.04,"end":26680.04,"text":"有兩案我先講103案喔"},{"start":26680.04,"end":26682.04,"text":"是接著剛剛"},{"start":26682.04,"end":26684.04,"text":"有幾位委員關心黃牛票"},{"start":26684.04,"end":26686.04,"text":"的查緝"},{"start":26686.04,"end":26688.04,"text":"那我是非常具體的提出"},{"start":26688.04,"end":26690.04,"text":"我們在文創"},{"start":26690.04,"end":26692.04,"text":"就是我們的文創法"},{"start":26692.04,"end":26694.04,"text":"文化創意產業發展法"},{"start":26694.04,"end":26696.04,"text":"修法之後"},{"start":26696.04,"end":26698.04,"text":"因為有法律的授權我們抓"},{"start":26698.04,"end":26700.04,"text":"黃牛檢舉黃牛就有"},{"start":26700.04,"end":26702.04,"text":"底氣有法律的支持"},{"start":26702.04,"end":26704.04,"text":"所以檢舉案是"},{"start":26704.04,"end":26706.04,"text":"的成長"},{"start":26706.04,"end":26708.04,"text":"但是對應於調查的"},{"start":26708.04,"end":26710.04,"text":"建樹跟實質的"},{"start":26710.04,"end":26712.04,"text":"地方政府的採取"},{"start":26712.04,"end":26714.04,"text":"的建樹卻是"},{"start":26714.04,"end":26716.04,"text":"大幅的就是說"},{"start":26716.04,"end":26718.04,"text":"比例上是偏低啦"},{"start":26718.77,"end":26720.77,"text":"所以我去了解了問題的癥結"},{"start":26720.77,"end":26722.77,"text":"又是一個跨部會的問題"},{"start":26722.77,"end":26724.77,"text":"又是一個跨部會"},{"start":26724.77,"end":26726.77,"text":"需要去協調的"},{"start":26726.77,"end":26728.77,"text":"我就說文化會報是重要的"},{"start":26728.77,"end":26730.77,"text":"報告部長喔"},{"start":26730.77,"end":26732.77,"text":"我看到的困難當中是"},{"start":26732.77,"end":26734.77,"text":"現在"},{"start":26734.77,"end":26736.77,"text":"即便檢舉黃牛案"},{"start":26736.77,"end":26738.77,"text":"但是我們"},{"start":26738.77,"end":26740.77,"text":"需要去追查那個帳戶"},{"start":26740.77,"end":26742.77,"text":"那追查帳戶"},{"start":26742.77,"end":26744.77,"text":"的時候金管會卻"},{"start":26744.77,"end":26746.77,"text":"不停我們啊"},{"start":26746.51,"end":26748.51,"text":"金管會他用銀行法"},{"start":26748.51,"end":26750.51,"text":"第48條第二項"},{"start":26750.51,"end":26752.51,"text":"的客戶保密的"},{"start":26752.51,"end":26754.51,"text":"義務來阻"},{"start":26754.51,"end":26756.51,"text":"卻於我們文化"},{"start":26756.51,"end":26758.51,"text":"部門可以去調閱"},{"start":26758.51,"end":26760.51,"text":"查緝這個帳號持有人"},{"start":26760.51,"end":26762.51,"text":"的資訊因為他說要保"},{"start":26762.51,"end":26764.51,"text":"賬個資"},{"start":26764.51,"end":26766.51,"text":"那現在在銀行法48條第二項"},{"start":26766.51,"end":26768.51,"text":"裡頭他還有金管會"},{"start":26768.51,"end":26770.51,"text":"的一個函文他是限制"},{"start":26770.51,"end":26772.51,"text":"於司法監察稅務"},{"start":26772.51,"end":26774.51,"text":"等機關有調查權"},{"start":26774.51,"end":26776.51,"text":"我覺得這就是跨部會的協調啊"},{"start":26776.51,"end":26778.51,"text":"我們把對於查緝"},{"start":26778.51,"end":26780.51,"text":"黃牛也作為一個重要的"},{"start":26780.51,"end":26782.51,"text":"調查權需要"},{"start":26782.51,"end":26784.51,"text":"伸張的事項"},{"start":26784.51,"end":26786.51,"text":"我們來跟金管會溝通"},{"start":26786.51,"end":26788.51,"text":"有何不可否則每當"},{"start":26788.51,"end":26790.51,"text":"地方政府或是警政機關"},{"start":26790.51,"end":26792.51,"text":"要幫忙查查的時候就"},{"start":26792.51,"end":26794.51,"text":"卡在金管會這一個"},{"start":26794.51,"end":26796.51,"text":"其實他還不是到法律"},{"start":26796.51,"end":26798.51,"text":"層級他其實是一個函文"},{"start":26798.51,"end":26800.51,"text":"而已我覺得一定要"},{"start":26800.51,"end":26802.51,"text":"硬起來否則我們"},{"start":26802.51,"end":26804.51,"text":"有了法律的授權執法沒有辦法"},{"start":26804.51,"end":26806.51,"text":"伸張居然是卡在跨部會"},{"start":26806.51,"end":26808.51,"text":"的溝通我覺得這個讓"},{"start":26808.51,"end":26810.51,"text":"黃牛犯他們持續的"},{"start":26810.51,"end":26812.51,"text":"猖狂我想這個大家都不樂見"},{"start":26812.51,"end":26814.51,"text":"所以我的案是第103"},{"start":26814.51,"end":26816.51,"text":"案喔"},{"start":26815.57,"end":26817.57,"text":"另外第99案"},{"start":26817.57,"end":26819.57,"text":"就是在影視音產業的支持"},{"start":26819.57,"end":26821.57,"text":"在中國推出的"},{"start":26821.57,"end":26823.57,"text":"會台政策之後"},{"start":26823.57,"end":26825.57,"text":"很多影視界的人都站出來講話"},{"start":26825.57,"end":26827.57,"text":"他們往中國"},{"start":26827.57,"end":26829.57,"text":"套養殺之後呢"},{"start":26829.57,"end":26831.57,"text":"先給甜頭"},{"start":26831.57,"end":26833.57,"text":"然後引你上鉤"},{"start":26833.57,"end":26835.57,"text":"然後榨乾你吃乾抹淨用完就丟"},{"start":26835.57,"end":26837.57,"text":"已經很多人受害了"},{"start":26837.57,"end":26839.57,"text":"所以文化部能做什麼呢"},{"start":26839.57,"end":26841.57,"text":"我們不能永遠只是說反對"},{"start":26841.57,"end":26843.57,"text":"就是那種道德勸說"},{"start":26843.57,"end":26845.57,"text":"這種喊話"},{"start":26845.57,"end":26847.57,"text":"不要進入中國市場"},{"start":26847.57,"end":26849.57,"text":"這種自我審查不好"},{"start":26849.57,"end":26851.57,"text":"除了這些之外更具體"},{"start":26851.57,"end":26853.57,"text":"的建立起一個法律支援的"},{"start":26853.57,"end":26855.57,"text":"系統幫助我們"},{"start":26855.57,"end":26857.57,"text":"這些可能承擔"},{"start":26857.57,"end":26859.57,"text":"高風險當然前端預防"},{"start":26859.57,"end":26861.57,"text":"提醒大家有這個風險"},{"start":26861.57,"end":26863.57,"text":"的意識能"},{"start":26863.57,"end":26865.57,"text":"不去"},{"start":26864.96,"end":26866.96,"text":"就不去"},{"start":26866.96,"end":26868.96,"text":"如果要去你要搞清楚跟你合作方"},{"start":26868.96,"end":26870.96,"text":"到底是不是"},{"start":26870.53,"end":26872.53,"text":"可信賴的合作方"},{"start":26872.53,"end":26874.53,"text":"所以第一個預防機制第二個"},{"start":26874.53,"end":26876.53,"text":"對於已經發生權益保障"},{"start":26876.53,"end":26878.53,"text":"受損的這些影視音的創造者"},{"start":26878.53,"end":26880.53,"text":"如何創作者如何"},{"start":26880.53,"end":26882.53,"text":"給予必要的法律支持"},{"start":26883.25,"end":26885.25,"text":"那當然回到剛剛源頭"},{"start":26885.25,"end":26887.25,"text":"剛剛文策有很多委員在講"},{"start":26887.25,"end":26889.25,"text":"好像投入了一些投融資"},{"start":26889.25,"end":26891.25,"text":"的補助好像國片"},{"start":26891.25,"end":26893.25,"text":"大家可能沒有賺錢"},{"start":26893.25,"end":26895.25,"text":"我還是要說"},{"start":26895.25,"end":26897.25,"text":"台灣的市場確實有它"},{"start":26897.25,"end":26899.25,"text":"先天上的困難"},{"start":26899.25,"end":26901.25,"text":"我一向不再以川普賺錢"},{"start":26901.25,"end":26903.25,"text":"來看這個"},{"start":26903.25,"end":26905.25,"text":"投資的成效"},{"start":26905.25,"end":26907.25,"text":"大家觀點不同但是我們"},{"start":26907.25,"end":26909.25,"text":"還是從一個很深刻"},{"start":26909.25,"end":26911.25,"text":"的從中國一再的放"},{"start":26911.25,"end":26913.25,"text":"一台措施就是它知道"},{"start":26913.25,"end":26915.25,"text":"很多人想要資金的"},{"start":26915.25,"end":26917.25,"text":"扶治"},{"start":26916.53,"end":26920.53,"text":"那台灣自己對於本土影視音的這種"},{"start":26920.93,"end":26922.93,"text":"我覺得還是真的做得不夠啦"},{"start":26922.93,"end":26924.93,"text":"這是很沉痛的一件事"},{"start":26924.93,"end":26926.93,"text":"我也知道很難解決"},{"start":26926.93,"end":26928.93,"text":"但請部長再"},{"start":26928.93,"end":26930.93,"text":"責怪一下我們的影視相關單位"},{"start":26930.93,"end":26932.93,"text":"跨部會的幫忙包括跟陸委會"},{"start":26932.93,"end":26934.93,"text":"來協同這些"},{"start":26935.73,"end":26937.73,"text":"承擔風險的影視音創作者"},{"start":26937.73,"end":26939.73,"text":"我覺得文化部責無旁貸"},{"start":26939.73,"end":26941.73,"text":"所以我的兩個案子等一下請你們來回覆"},{"start":26946.9,"end":26948.9,"text":"各位記者"},{"start":26948.64,"end":26950.64,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":26950.64,"end":26952.64,"text":"本席在這個部分"},{"start":26952.64,"end":26954.64,"text":"有一共有兩個提案"},{"start":26954.64,"end":26956.64,"text":"第94案是關於"},{"start":26956.64,"end":26958.64,"text":"AI演員資料庫的議題"},{"start":26958.64,"end":26960.64,"text":"本席在5月7號的質詢"},{"start":26960.64,"end":26962.64,"text":"的時候有向部長提出"},{"start":26962.64,"end":26964.64,"text":"在AI影視化的浪潮之下"},{"start":26964.64,"end":26966.64,"text":"我們結合AI資料庫"},{"start":26966.64,"end":26968.64,"text":"的建立將必無可避"},{"start":26968.64,"end":26970.64,"text":"既然無法全面"},{"start":26970.64,"end":26972.64,"text":"禁止我們就應該要避免"},{"start":26972.64,"end":26974.64,"text":"藝文工作者在不平等"},{"start":26974.64,"end":26976.64,"text":"的條件之下被迫"},{"start":26976.64,"end":26978.64,"text":"簽訂不平等的"},{"start":26978.64,"end":26980.64,"text":"臉啊 聲音啊"},{"start":26980.64,"end":26982.64,"text":"數位分身啊"},{"start":26982.64,"end":26984.64,"text":"等等的這種"},{"start":26984.64,"end":26986.64,"text":"不平等的授權合約"},{"start":26986.64,"end":26988.64,"text":"政府其實就要建立一套合法的"},{"start":26988.64,"end":26990.64,"text":"授權而且可追蹤"},{"start":26990.64,"end":26992.64,"text":"可分任可撤回"},{"start":26992.64,"end":26994.64,"text":"可集體談判的制度"},{"start":26994.64,"end":26996.64,"text":"來保障藝文工作者的權益"},{"start":26996.64,"end":26998.64,"text":"因此當時"},{"start":26998.64,"end":27000.64,"text":"5月7號的時候本席在當場"},{"start":27000.64,"end":27002.64,"text":"有提出要求文化部"},{"start":27002.64,"end":27004.64,"text":"要趕快主動積極的"},{"start":27004.64,"end":27006.64,"text":"邀集演藝人員公會"},{"start":27006.64,"end":27008.64,"text":"配音人員公會等等相關的"},{"start":27008.64,"end":27010.64,"text":"團體來開會"},{"start":27010.64,"end":27012.64,"text":"其實我們當時提出算很早"},{"start":27012.64,"end":27014.64,"text":"我們看到像中國大陸"},{"start":27014.64,"end":27016.64,"text":"現在有非常多的"},{"start":27016.64,"end":27018.64,"text":"這種道用啦"},{"start":27018.64,"end":27020.64,"text":"用低價的方式"},{"start":27020.64,"end":27022.64,"text":"來使用人的臉或"},{"start":27022.64,"end":27024.64,"text":"聲音有非常多的演藝"},{"start":27024.64,"end":27026.64,"text":"人員本來"},{"start":27026.64,"end":27028.64,"text":"有非常多的邀約"},{"start":27028.64,"end":27030.64,"text":"現在沒有工作了"},{"start":27030.64,"end":27032.64,"text":"台灣我們是一個民主的社會"},{"start":27032.64,"end":27034.64,"text":"而且我們很科技"},{"start":27034.64,"end":27036.64,"text":"我們怎麼樣來把這件事情做得更好"},{"start":27036.64,"end":27038.64,"text":"這個是我們有動機的"},{"start":27038.64,"end":27040.64,"text":"也是大家一致的方向"},{"start":27040.64,"end":27042.64,"text":"所以當時我們就要求文化部"},{"start":27042.64,"end":27044.64,"text":"去做一個這樣的會議"},{"start":27045.93,"end":27047.93,"text":"來瞭解AI影視音產業的影響"},{"start":27047.93,"end":27049.93,"text":"和他們共同研議"},{"start":27049.93,"end":27051.93,"text":"我們到底怎麼做"},{"start":27051.93,"end":27053.93,"text":"5月7號我們真的是非常非常早"},{"start":27053.93,"end":27055.93,"text":"那我之所以要做得離"},{"start":27055.93,"end":27057.93,"text":"部長比較近"},{"start":27057.93,"end":27059.93,"text":"我就是要來感謝部長"},{"start":27059.93,"end":27061.93,"text":"就是文化部"},{"start":27061.93,"end":27063.93,"text":"我們要給予肯定"},{"start":27063.93,"end":27065.93,"text":"就是說特別感謝李遠部長"},{"start":27065.93,"end":27067.93,"text":"本席當時所提出的意見"},{"start":27067.93,"end":27069.93,"text":"部長不僅當場允諾"},{"start":27069.93,"end":27071.93,"text":"而且已經逐步"},{"start":27071.93,"end":27073.93,"text":"在實踐了"},{"start":27073.93,"end":27075.93,"text":"在115年的6月4號"},{"start":27075.93,"end":27077.93,"text":"邀集影視產業的"},{"start":27077.93,"end":27079.93,"text":"製作AI技術"},{"start":27079.93,"end":27081.93,"text":"經紀公司"},{"start":27081.93,"end":27083.93,"text":"台北市電影電視演藝"},{"start":27083.93,"end":27085.93,"text":"職業工會台北市配音"},{"start":27085.93,"end":27087.93,"text":"人員職業工會以及法律"},{"start":27087.93,"end":27089.93,"text":"專家召開了"},{"start":27089.93,"end":27091.93,"text":"我相信是非常有歷史性意義"},{"start":27091.93,"end":27093.93,"text":"的一個諮詢會議"},{"start":27093.93,"end":27095.93,"text":"就法律定位與個案授權的原則"},{"start":27095.93,"end":27097.93,"text":"勞資雙方平衡的"},{"start":27097.93,"end":27099.93,"text":"期約訴求"},{"start":27099.93,"end":27101.93,"text":"以及台灣影視音資料庫"},{"start":27101.93,"end":27103.93,"text":"還有主權AI建置的提議等等"},{"start":27103.93,"end":27105.93,"text":"多個面向來進行討論"},{"start":27105.93,"end":27107.93,"text":"討論我們演藝人員的"},{"start":27107.93,"end":27109.93,"text":"數位分身的"},{"start":27109.93,"end":27111.93,"text":"授權以及其相關權益"},{"start":27111.93,"end":27113.93,"text":"還有他的人權的一些議題"},{"start":27113.93,"end":27115.93,"text":"那我想未來"},{"start":27115.93,"end":27117.93,"text":"或許他會成為另外一種產業"},{"start":27117.93,"end":27119.93,"text":"也是我們軟體"},{"start":27119.93,"end":27121.93,"text":"照三運動說不定也是很重要的一環"},{"start":27121.93,"end":27123.93,"text":"可能有AI分身"},{"start":27123.93,"end":27125.93,"text":"有AI經濟"},{"start":27125.93,"end":27127.93,"text":"甚至有AI演藝"},{"start":27127.93,"end":27129.93,"text":"那怎麼樣在這個過程中"},{"start":27129.93,"end":27131.93,"text":"讓我們演藝人員反而可以得到"},{"start":27131.93,"end":27133.93,"text":"更大的未來的成長空間"},{"start":27133.93,"end":27135.93,"text":"我相信我們做得到"},{"start":27135.93,"end":27137.93,"text":"我相信文化部也會希望做得到"},{"start":27137.93,"end":27139.93,"text":"那所以"},{"start":27139.93,"end":27141.93,"text":"在這個部會的這個案子呢"},{"start":27141.93,"end":27143.93,"text":"這個部分的這個案子"},{"start":27143.93,"end":27145.93,"text":"也希望未來持續文化部"},{"start":27145.93,"end":27147.93,"text":"可以參採藝文工作者提出的各項建議"},{"start":27147.93,"end":27149.93,"text":"那本席也將持續追蹤"},{"start":27149.93,"end":27151.93,"text":"後續辦理情形跟這個進度"},{"start":27151.93,"end":27153.93,"text":"所以在第九十四案的"},{"start":27153.93,"end":27155.93,"text":"預算的這個部分"},{"start":27155.93,"end":27157.93,"text":"由於文化部已經主動"},{"start":27157.93,"end":27159.93,"text":"以及與藝文工作者展開對話"},{"start":27159.93,"end":27161.93,"text":"而且是在這麼有意義的"},{"start":27161.93,"end":27163.93,"text":"一個日子"},{"start":27163.93,"end":27165.93,"text":"六月四號這樣的一個時間點"},{"start":27165.93,"end":27167.93,"text":"我相信啊"},{"start":27167.93,"end":27169.93,"text":"就是一個非常非常重要的展開"},{"start":27169.93,"end":27171.93,"text":"有明確的辦理進度我們已經理解到了"},{"start":27171.93,"end":27173.93,"text":"那也發文讓我們辦公室有了解"},{"start":27173.93,"end":27175.93,"text":"所以本席同意第九十四案"},{"start":27175.93,"end":27177.93,"text":"就改為主決議"},{"start":27177.93,"end":27179.93,"text":"那另外還有一個很重要的"},{"start":27179.93,"end":27181.93,"text":"剛剛也有許多委員提到的"},{"start":27181.93,"end":27183.93,"text":"是本席有提第104案"},{"start":27183.93,"end":27185.93,"text":"相關的主題呢就是關於"},{"start":27185.93,"end":27187.93,"text":"都想防治黃牛的議題呢"},{"start":27187.93,"end":27189.93,"text":"是一個道與魔之爭"},{"start":27189.93,"end":27191.93,"text":"事實上魔高一尺"},{"start":27191.93,"end":27193.93,"text":"道一定要高一丈"},{"start":27193.93,"end":27195.93,"text":"那我們藝文表演的票券"},{"start":27195.93,"end":27197.93,"text":"的這個實名制"},{"start":27197.93,"end":27199.93,"text":"相關的議題真的很重要"},{"start":27199.93,"end":27201.93,"text":"那目前文化部的補助方案"},{"start":27201.93,"end":27203.93,"text":"是針對主辦單位和售票平台的業者"},{"start":27203.93,"end":27205.93,"text":"給予辦理票券"},{"start":27205.93,"end":27207.93,"text":"實名制所支出的"},{"start":27207.93,"end":27209.93,"text":"臨時人力費"},{"start":27209.93,"end":27211.93,"text":"設備租借費"},{"start":27211.93,"end":27213.93,"text":"以及場地的這個"},{"start":27213.93,"end":27215.93,"text":"還有這個所謂的人的認證"},{"start":27215.93,"end":27217.93,"text":"之類的費用"},{"start":27217.93,"end":27219.93,"text":"但本席也希望能夠在此"},{"start":27219.93,"end":27221.93,"text":"提醒文化部"},{"start":27221.93,"end":27223.93,"text":"黃牛票的防治"},{"start":27223.93,"end":27225.93,"text":"其實不是只是"},{"start":27225.93,"end":27227.93,"text":"查臉查人"},{"start":27227.93,"end":27229.93,"text":"看證件"},{"start":27229.93,"end":27231.93,"text":"抱歉黃牛啊"},{"start":27231.93,"end":27233.93,"text":"其實是在用科學的技術"},{"start":27233.93,"end":27235.93,"text":"在破壞我們的"},{"start":27235.93,"end":27237.93,"text":"藝文產業"},{"start":27238.32,"end":27240.32,"text":"那他用他的魔法"},{"start":27240.32,"end":27242.32,"text":"我們的魔法也不能輸啊"},{"start":27242.32,"end":27244.32,"text":"不能他用電燈我們用蠟燭"},{"start":27244.32,"end":27246.32,"text":"那就不對了"},{"start":27246.41,"end":27248.41,"text":"事實上黃牛的這種做法"},{"start":27248.41,"end":27250.41,"text":"我們如果只用抓的"},{"start":27250.41,"end":27252.41,"text":"會抓不勝抓"},{"start":27252.41,"end":27254.41,"text":"那單一的實體啊"},{"start":27254.41,"end":27256.41,"text":"是用這個黃牛"},{"start":27256.41,"end":27258.41,"text":"用一台電腦"},{"start":27258.41,"end":27260.41,"text":"他去創建數千數萬個"},{"start":27260.41,"end":27262.41,"text":"虛假的身份"},{"start":27262.41,"end":27264.41,"text":"或者AI機器人的帳號"},{"start":27264.41,"end":27266.41,"text":"某種程度啦算是"},{"start":27266.41,"end":27268.41,"text":"惡意的去破壞或者入侵"},{"start":27268.41,"end":27270.41,"text":"售票的系統去壟斷"},{"start":27270.41,"end":27272.41,"text":"多數的票源"},{"start":27272.41,"end":27274.41,"text":"那因此文化部所制定的實名制"},{"start":27274.41,"end":27276.41,"text":"的補助要點"},{"start":27276.41,"end":27278.41,"text":"如果我們只是在講個資"},{"start":27278.41,"end":27280.41,"text":"在查身份我覺得可能會"},{"start":27280.41,"end":27282.41,"text":"撞到一堵牆啦"},{"start":27282.41,"end":27284.41,"text":"不管是個資的保護也好等等"},{"start":27284.41,"end":27286.41,"text":"那這條路當然我們也可以"},{"start":27286.41,"end":27288.41,"text":"不要放棄找犯法"},{"start":27288.41,"end":27290.41,"text":"但是另外一條路我們真的可以做"},{"start":27290.41,"end":27292.41,"text":"就是跟本土"},{"start":27292.41,"end":27294.41,"text":"廠商的科技研發"},{"start":27294.41,"end":27296.41,"text":"以及外國廠商的科技技術"},{"start":27296.41,"end":27298.41,"text":"來合作一併納入這個"},{"start":27298.41,"end":27300.41,"text":"補助跟研議的範圍"},{"start":27300.41,"end":27302.41,"text":"可能才能夠真正的從源頭"},{"start":27302.41,"end":27304.41,"text":"去杜絕黃牛啊"},{"start":27304.41,"end":27306.41,"text":"用科技的手段去壟斷"},{"start":27306.41,"end":27308.41,"text":"票源的事件喔"},{"start":27308.41,"end":27310.41,"text":"那我舉個例子喔目前國外已經有"},{"start":27310.41,"end":27312.41,"text":"廠商開發出像World ID"},{"start":27312.41,"end":27314.41,"text":"這種技術"},{"start":27314.41,"end":27316.41,"text":"它不僅能夠在保護"},{"start":27316.41,"end":27318.41,"text":"個資不流出"},{"start":27318.41,"end":27320.41,"text":"個人隱私的情況之下"},{"start":27320.41,"end":27322.41,"text":"用zero knowledge的方式"},{"start":27322.41,"end":27324.41,"text":"零知識去證明"},{"start":27324.41,"end":27326.41,"text":"購票者是一個人類"},{"start":27326.41,"end":27328.41,"text":"而且是一個單一的人類"},{"start":27328.41,"end":27330.41,"text":"他是唯一的人類"},{"start":27330.41,"end":27332.41,"text":"以確保每位真正的人"},{"start":27332.41,"end":27334.41,"text":"一位只能獲得一張票"},{"start":27334.41,"end":27336.41,"text":"當然你系統上可以設定喔"},{"start":27336.41,"end":27338.41,"text":"那在AI的時代"},{"start":27338.41,"end":27340.41,"text":"能夠以科技技術"},{"start":27340.41,"end":27342.41,"text":"去可靠的"},{"start":27342.41,"end":27344.41,"text":"不侵犯隱私的情況之下"},{"start":27344.41,"end":27346.41,"text":"去證明一個賬號的背後"},{"start":27346.41,"end":27348.41,"text":"是真實而且唯一的人"},{"start":27348.41,"end":27350.41,"text":"已經做得到了"},{"start":27350.41,"end":27352.41,"text":"以前做不到現在已經做得到了"},{"start":27352.41,"end":27354.41,"text":"而且成熟了"},{"start":27354.42,"end":27356.42,"text":"那未來啊我們還要挑戰"},{"start":27356.42,"end":27358.42,"text":"就用同樣類似的技術"},{"start":27358.42,"end":27360.42,"text":"去辨別出"},{"start":27360.42,"end":27362.42,"text":"人類授權的AI"},{"start":27362.42,"end":27364.42,"text":"人類授權的小龍蝦"},{"start":27364.42,"end":27366.42,"text":"因為未來現在黃牛用AI"},{"start":27366.42,"end":27368.42,"text":"機器人在搶票"},{"start":27368.42,"end":27370.42,"text":"可是未來我們每一個人都有合法的代理人"},{"start":27370.42,"end":27372.42,"text":"難道我用AI去搶票"},{"start":27372.42,"end":27374.42,"text":"我也要被擋嗎"},{"start":27374.42,"end":27376.42,"text":"我也要被抓嗎我也要被罰嗎"},{"start":27376.42,"end":27378.42,"text":"所以這種"},{"start":27378.42,"end":27380.42,"text":"盜摩之間的相鬥"},{"start":27380.42,"end":27382.42,"text":"對方用的是科技"},{"start":27382.42,"end":27384.42,"text":"不能只用傳統的方式去做"},{"start":27384.42,"end":27386.42,"text":"所以數位平台科學的技術"},{"start":27386.42,"end":27388.42,"text":"需要文化部的"},{"start":27388.42,"end":27390.42,"text":"努力跟支持"},{"start":27390.42,"end":27392.42,"text":"那所以本席透過預算提案的方式"},{"start":27392.42,"end":27394.42,"text":"才是希望能夠來提醒文化部"},{"start":27394.42,"end":27396.42,"text":"除了補助主辦單位"},{"start":27396.42,"end":27398.42,"text":"和售票平台以外"},{"start":27398.42,"end":27400.42,"text":"也應該研議編列預算"},{"start":27400.42,"end":27402.42,"text":"去補助本土廠商"},{"start":27402.42,"end":27404.42,"text":"對於實名制科技的"},{"start":27404.42,"end":27406.42,"text":"研發應用以及平台"},{"start":27406.42,"end":27408.42,"text":"業者和外國廠商"},{"start":27408.42,"end":27410.42,"text":"已經應用起來的"},{"start":27410.42,"end":27412.42,"text":"實名制科技"},{"start":27412.42,"end":27414.42,"text":"或者人類驗證"},{"start":27414.42,"end":27416.42,"text":"真人驗證的科技的技術"},{"start":27416.42,"end":27418.42,"text":"相關去做合作"},{"start":27418.42,"end":27420.42,"text":"那整體來講"},{"start":27420.42,"end":27422.42,"text":"因為這個議題真的太重要了"},{"start":27422.42,"end":27424.42,"text":"但是我想這個科技的解決方案"},{"start":27424.42,"end":27426.42,"text":"還是希望能夠在"},{"start":27426.42,"end":27428.42,"text":"這裡提一下"},{"start":27428.42,"end":27430.42,"text":"但是預算的部分"},{"start":27430.42,"end":27432.42,"text":"我想我們也有過交流"},{"start":27432.42,"end":27434.42,"text":"那也希望文化部能夠參採"},{"start":27434.42,"end":27436.42,"text":"那本席不堅持"},{"start":27436.42,"end":27438.42,"text":"同意將本案改為主決議"},{"start":27438.42,"end":27440.42,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":27443.44,"end":27445.44,"text":"好 再來羅志祥委員"},{"start":27445.44,"end":27447.44,"text":"我的提案是"},{"start":27447.44,"end":27449.44,"text":"110案"},{"start":27449.44,"end":27451.44,"text":"TimePlus"},{"start":27451.44,"end":27453.44,"text":"TimePlus發展國際數位傳播的計畫"},{"start":27453.44,"end":27455.44,"text":"預算規模是相當宏大"},{"start":27455.44,"end":27457.44,"text":"但是很抱歉"},{"start":27457.44,"end":27459.44,"text":"政策收效甚微"},{"start":27459.44,"end":27461.44,"text":"引發各式的負面事件"},{"start":27461.44,"end":27463.44,"text":"連招審計部"},{"start":27463.44,"end":27465.44,"text":"監察院 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Plus"},{"start":27743.12,"end":27745.12,"text":"沒有改進還不斷的捅樓子"},{"start":27745.12,"end":27747.12,"text":"到底發生什麼事情以上"},{"start":27748.25,"end":27750.25,"text":"好"},{"start":27750.16,"end":27752.16,"text":"我做最後一個"},{"start":27752.16,"end":27754.16,"text":"那首先因為"},{"start":27754.16,"end":27756.16,"text":"也感謝吳思耀委員剛剛有提到"},{"start":27756.16,"end":27758.16,"text":"這個對於"},{"start":27758.16,"end":27760.16,"text":"影片補助的部分"},{"start":27761.09,"end":27763.09,"text":"我也想補充一下"},{"start":27763.09,"end":27765.09,"text":"60題"},{"start":27764.48,"end":27766.48,"text":"60文化創意產業發展業務"},{"start":27766.48,"end":27768.48,"text":"還是要再多念兩句"},{"start":27768.48,"end":27770.48,"text":"那個"},{"start":27770.48,"end":27772.48,"text":"我們那個文化部文化資產"},{"start":27772.48,"end":27774.48,"text":"園區台中酒廠"},{"start":27774.48,"end":27776.48,"text":"復興路台中酒廠"},{"start":27776.48,"end":27778.48,"text":"有關於這一個部分"},{"start":27778.48,"end":27780.48,"text":"我還是認為在我們的文化創意產業"},{"start":27780.48,"end":27782.48,"text":"發展的一個業務還是有待精進"},{"start":27783.65,"end":27785.65,"text":"那我希望我們會後"},{"start":27785.65,"end":27787.65,"text":"部長應該跟我討論一下"},{"start":27787.65,"end":27789.65,"text":"那個台中酒廠的這個"},{"start":27789.65,"end":27791.65,"text":"資產園區的一個活化"},{"start":27791.65,"end":27793.65,"text":"我認為還有待加強"},{"start":27793.65,"end":27795.65,"text":"因為有關於台北文山"},{"start":27795.65,"end":27797.65,"text":"還有高雄博二"},{"start":27797.65,"end":27799.65,"text":"這一類的這個文化的產業園區"},{"start":27799.65,"end":27801.65,"text":"台中還有很大的一個進步空間"},{"start":27801.65,"end":27803.65,"text":"那我們也希望透過"},{"start":27803.65,"end":27805.65,"text":"討論甚至有必要的話"},{"start":27805.65,"end":27807.65,"text":"我可能會再辦一個"},{"start":27807.65,"end":27809.65,"text":"一個會議"},{"start":27809.65,"end":27811.65,"text":"那我希望我們會後"},{"start":27811.65,"end":27813.65,"text":"討論甚至有必要的話我可能會再辦考察"},{"start":27813.65,"end":27815.65,"text":"實地的參訪"},{"start":27815.65,"end":27817.65,"text":"我希望這個文山跟博二的部分"},{"start":27817.65,"end":27819.65,"text":"的一個成功應該要再拉到"},{"start":27819.65,"end":27821.65,"text":"台中也會有類似"},{"start":27821.65,"end":27823.65,"text":"文山華山對不起"},{"start":27823.65,"end":27825.65,"text":"華山對不起"},{"start":27825.65,"end":27827.65,"text":"跟博二喔"},{"start":27827.65,"end":27829.65,"text":"有這樣子的相關學習的一個"},{"start":27829.65,"end":27831.65,"text":"空間我們一起來加強"},{"start":27831.65,"end":27833.65,"text":"那90的部分喔"},{"start":27833.65,"end":27835.65,"text":"我想影視"},{"start":27836.15,"end":27838.15,"text":"影視及流行音樂的發展"},{"start":27838.15,"end":27840.15,"text":"這又關係到現在雖然"},{"start":27840.15,"end":27842.15,"text":"是在討論這一個項目"},{"start":27842.15,"end":27844.15,"text":"的一個預算"},{"start":27844.15,"end":27846.15,"text":"影視師那我想影視局"},{"start":27846.15,"end":27848.15,"text":"也在辦理"},{"start":27848.15,"end":27850.15,"text":"不管是涉及補助投資"},{"start":27850.15,"end":27852.15,"text":"公共媒體一個重大場館"},{"start":27852.15,"end":27854.15,"text":"我想這都是高度"},{"start":27854.15,"end":27856.15,"text":"社會的檢視的一個"},{"start":27856.15,"end":27858.15,"text":"預算項目喔那今天早上"},{"start":27858.15,"end":27860.15,"text":"也為了這件事情也一直不斷"},{"start":27860.15,"end":27862.15,"text":"在吵就是我們在講"},{"start":27862.15,"end":27864.15,"text":"108年補助到這個性侵"},{"start":27864.15,"end":27866.15,"text":"毛小孩的這個音樂"},{"start":27866.15,"end":27868.15,"text":"也都是在出自於這個項目"},{"start":27868.15,"end":27870.15,"text":"所以我們都希望"},{"start":27870.15,"end":27872.15,"text":"現在的審查標準"},{"start":27872.15,"end":27874.15,"text":"計畫目的"},{"start":27874.15,"end":27876.15,"text":"成果標示"},{"start":27876.15,"end":27878.15,"text":"都應該要再好好的檢視喔"},{"start":27878.15,"end":27880.15,"text":"因為早上我也提到喔"},{"start":27880.15,"end":27882.15,"text":"部長也在講在質詢的過程"},{"start":27882.15,"end":27884.15,"text":"也都回應說"},{"start":27884.15,"end":27886.15,"text":"對於性侵毛小孩這個音樂"},{"start":27886.15,"end":27888.15,"text":"拿回去再來"},{"start":27888.15,"end":27890.15,"text":"做一個審查"},{"start":27890.15,"end":27892.15,"text":"那評審是說沒有問題"},{"start":27892.15,"end":27894.15,"text":"不會追回"},{"start":27894.15,"end":27896.15,"text":"那尤其我上次質詢的時候"},{"start":27896.15,"end":27898.15,"text":"也提到當事者"},{"start":27898.15,"end":27900.15,"text":"創作者喔公開承認"},{"start":27900.15,"end":27902.15,"text":"自己剽竊"},{"start":27903.06,"end":27907.06,"text":"這個國外的相關的一些影音作品"},{"start":27907.06,"end":27909.06,"text":"那沒有想到"},{"start":27909.06,"end":27911.06,"text":"文化部竟然還幫他講說"},{"start":27911.06,"end":27913.06,"text":"沒有啊你們認為沒有剽竊"},{"start":27913.06,"end":27915.06,"text":"我覺得這也蠻特別的"},{"start":27915.06,"end":27917.06,"text":"就是連創作者都"},{"start":27917.06,"end":27919.06,"text":"自己說我自己是剽竊了喔"},{"start":27919.06,"end":27921.06,"text":"那文化部竟然還說"},{"start":27921.06,"end":27923.06,"text":"評審覺得沒有剽竊"},{"start":27923.06,"end":27925.06,"text":"我覺得這樣子的一個說法"},{"start":27925.06,"end":27927.06,"text":"讓全民沒辦法接受"},{"start":27927.34,"end":27929.34,"text":"所以我們都希望喔"},{"start":27929.34,"end":27931.34,"text":"這樣子的一個補助金額相關"},{"start":27931.34,"end":27933.34,"text":"我們沒有要"},{"start":27933.67,"end":27935.67,"text":"不准補助"},{"start":27935.67,"end":27937.67,"text":"我們希望的是能夠更謹慎的補助"},{"start":27937.67,"end":27939.67,"text":"更加強相關的審查標準"},{"start":27939.67,"end":27941.67,"text":"以及後續的成果"},{"start":27941.67,"end":27943.67,"text":"可以讓全民"},{"start":27943.67,"end":27945.67,"text":"能夠接受"},{"start":27945.67,"end":27947.67,"text":"所以再來就是"},{"start":27947.67,"end":27949.67,"text":"我們Taiwan Plus的"},{"start":27949.67,"end":27951.67,"text":"一個國際傳播成效喔"},{"start":27951.67,"end":27953.67,"text":"我想每一年我們都在講"},{"start":27953.67,"end":27955.67,"text":"它的成效真的讓全民"},{"start":27955.67,"end":27957.67,"text":"全民"},{"start":27957.36,"end":27959.36,"text":"都沒辦法接受"},{"start":27959.36,"end":27961.36,"text":"甚至很多的節目也有一些"},{"start":27961.36,"end":27963.36,"text":"讓人家捏一把冷汗"},{"start":27963.36,"end":27965.36,"text":"我覺得這個部分"},{"start":27965.36,"end":27967.36,"text":"應該要好好的檢討"},{"start":27967.36,"end":27969.36,"text":"我們也沒有看到實際的檢討"},{"start":27969.36,"end":27971.36,"text":"所以現在又有委員提出"},{"start":27971.36,"end":27973.36,"text":"相關的一個問題"},{"start":27973.36,"end":27975.36,"text":"再來就是黃牛的部分我有寫到"},{"start":27975.36,"end":27977.36,"text":"我希望"},{"start":27977.36,"end":27979.36,"text":"跨部會的一個合作"},{"start":27979.36,"end":27981.36,"text":"目前看起來還是沒有做到"},{"start":27981.36,"end":27983.36,"text":"所以剛剛有其他委員也提到了"},{"start":27983.36,"end":27985.36,"text":"很明確的黃牛問題"},{"start":27985.36,"end":27987.36,"text":"沒有辦法處理"},{"start":27987.36,"end":27989.36,"text":"我們要講的是現在已經有法規"},{"start":27989.36,"end":27991.36,"text":"但是實際有了檢舉"},{"start":27991.36,"end":27995.36,"text":"但是沒有實際開罰的成果"},{"start":27995.36,"end":27997.36,"text":"那導致黃牛根本沒有辦法降低"},{"start":27997.36,"end":27999.36,"text":"民眾對於黃牛的議題"},{"start":27999.36,"end":28003.36,"text":"還是非常非常的不滿意"},{"start":28004.58,"end":28006.58,"text":"我覺得這個文化部"},{"start":28006.58,"end":28008.58,"text":"責無旁貸"},{"start":28008.58,"end":28010.58,"text":"我想我自己在最近也接到很多"},{"start":28010.58,"end":28012.58,"text":"民眾對於黃牛的一些相關事件"},{"start":28012.58,"end":28014.58,"text":"他們都覺得"},{"start":28014.58,"end":28016.58,"text":"完全沒有改善"},{"start":28016.58,"end":28018.58,"text":"所以被動式的在查案"},{"start":28018.58,"end":28020.58,"text":"那被動式的在鼓勵"},{"start":28020.58,"end":28022.58,"text":"廠商補助他們"},{"start":28022.58,"end":28024.58,"text":"做實名制"},{"start":28024.58,"end":28026.58,"text":"這樣子的一個效果"},{"start":28026.58,"end":28028.58,"text":"有待精進是不是能夠改變新的策略"},{"start":28028.58,"end":28030.58,"text":"或者是編列更大的一個"},{"start":28030.58,"end":28032.58,"text":"預算數來補助"},{"start":28032.58,"end":28036.58,"text":"廠商他們應該要多一點來使用實名制的部分"},{"start":28036.58,"end":28040.58,"text":"也希望文化部應該要有一個精進的策略"},{"start":28041.82,"end":28043.82,"text":"那最後我也要提醒這個文化部"},{"start":28043.82,"end":28045.82,"text":"那講到這個售票機制"},{"start":28045.82,"end":28051.82,"text":"我們相關的售票的一個系統平台"},{"start":28051.82,"end":28053.82,"text":"雖然都是民間的"},{"start":28053.82,"end":28055.82,"text":"但是文化部能不能夠協助"},{"start":28055.82,"end":28059.82,"text":"因為優化這些售票平台"},{"start":28059.82,"end":28061.82,"text":"或者是跟業者好好的溝通"},{"start":28061.82,"end":28065.82,"text":"售票平台每次售票都當機"},{"start":28065.82,"end":28067.82,"text":"那甚至售票平台後續"},{"start":28067.82,"end":28069.82,"text":"退票的機制"},{"start":28069.82,"end":28073.82,"text":"都非常非常的時間拉很長"},{"start":28073.82,"end":28075.82,"text":"延宕"},{"start":28075.82,"end":28077.82,"text":"像最近我接到的檢舉案"},{"start":28077.82,"end":28079.82,"text":"就是最退票的機制"},{"start":28079.82,"end":28081.82,"text":"它符合資格"},{"start":28081.82,"end":28083.82,"text":"但是退票大概要14到30天"},{"start":28083.82,"end":28085.82,"text":"那國際的一些相關的"},{"start":28085.82,"end":28087.82,"text":"售票平台"},{"start":28087.82,"end":28089.82,"text":"大概都是7天以內"},{"start":28089.82,"end":28091.82,"text":"我覺得這個部分也有待"},{"start":28091.82,"end":28093.82,"text":"文化部作為主管機關"},{"start":28093.82,"end":28095.82,"text":"是不是能夠幫忙協助精進"},{"start":28095.82,"end":28097.82,"text":"那跟業者多溝通"},{"start":28097.82,"end":28099.82,"text":"我也希望文化部待會一併說明以上"},{"start":28107.64,"end":28109.64,"text":"好,有請部長"},{"start":28115.35,"end":28117.35,"text":"影視在這邊先做初步的說明"},{"start":28117.35,"end":28119.35,"text":"那針對一個各位委員"},{"start":28119.35,"end":28121.35,"text":"其實都有關注到在黃牛防治的部分"},{"start":28121.35,"end":28123.35,"text":"實際上在法規過了之後"},{"start":28123.35,"end":28125.35,"text":"我們其實有跟地方政府"},{"start":28125.35,"end":28127.35,"text":"還有相關的部會"},{"start":28127.35,"end":28129.35,"text":"有持續在保持聯繫"},{"start":28129.35,"end":28131.35,"text":"也從執行的過程當中"},{"start":28131.35,"end":28133.35,"text":"持續在完備我們整個檢舉"},{"start":28133.35,"end":28135.35,"text":"或者是在查處部分的機制"},{"start":28135.35,"end":28137.35,"text":"那在我分兩個面向來講"},{"start":28137.35,"end":28139.35,"text":"一個是關於委員關注的"},{"start":28139.35,"end":28141.35,"text":"檢舉案的處理的部分"},{"start":28141.35,"end":28143.35,"text":"實際上我們跟內政部警政署"},{"start":28143.35,"end":28145.35,"text":"其實都是有在做即時的溝通跟處理"},{"start":28145.35,"end":28147.35,"text":"那其實也會提供相關的法律諮詢服務"},{"start":28147.35,"end":28149.35,"text":"讓地方政府在整個採取的部分"},{"start":28149.35,"end":28151.35,"text":"能夠更加的迅速"},{"start":28151.35,"end":28153.35,"text":"那剛有提到說"},{"start":28153.35,"end":28155.35,"text":"其實任何檢舉案"},{"start":28155.35,"end":28157.35,"text":"他其實需要去追查票的來源"},{"start":28157.35,"end":28159.35,"text":"因為他畢竟涉及被採取人"},{"start":28159.35,"end":28161.35,"text":"就是被檢舉人的一個權益"},{"start":28161.35,"end":28163.35,"text":"他必須確認人別這件事情"},{"start":28163.35,"end":28165.35,"text":"那其實跟警管會之間"},{"start":28165.35,"end":28167.35,"text":"我們過去也曾經有過溝通"},{"start":28167.35,"end":28169.35,"text":"後續也會依照委員的"},{"start":28169.35,"end":28171.35,"text":"只是我們其實會持續的"},{"start":28171.35,"end":28173.35,"text":"我們會再跟他們去做一些討論"},{"start":28173.35,"end":28175.35,"text":"看在這個"},{"start":28175.35,"end":28177.35,"text":"警管會這邊是不是有一些"},{"start":28177.35,"end":28179.35,"text":"其他放寬的可能我們會持續討論"},{"start":28179.35,"end":28181.35,"text":"但是實際上在目前的查處過程當中"},{"start":28181.35,"end":28183.35,"text":"其實除了警管會的賬戶"},{"start":28183.35,"end":28185.35,"text":"就是銀行賬戶之外"},{"start":28185.35,"end":28187.35,"text":"其實我們也是跟售票平台這邊"},{"start":28187.35,"end":28189.35,"text":"都有在即時合作"},{"start":28189.35,"end":28191.35,"text":"意思是說地方政府其實他可以用"},{"start":28191.35,"end":28193.35,"text":"票號序號這一塊去追查到"},{"start":28193.35,"end":28195.35,"text":"最原始的一個購票人"},{"start":28195.35,"end":28197.35,"text":"他其實是有多管道可以去做處理"},{"start":28197.35,"end":28199.35,"text":"或者是"},{"start":28199.35,"end":28201.35,"text":"手機的部分也可以試著去"},{"start":28201.35,"end":28203.35,"text":"跟相關的單位去調到人別"},{"start":28203.35,"end":28205.35,"text":"那這一下我們其實一直"},{"start":28205.35,"end":28207.35,"text":"在跟地方政府了解他們"},{"start":28207.35,"end":28209.35,"text":"在採取的時候需要的一些"},{"start":28209.35,"end":28211.35,"text":"協助那也會跟其他的"},{"start":28211.35,"end":28213.35,"text":"相關單位來做一些處理"},{"start":28213.35,"end":28215.35,"text":"那包括說在其實"},{"start":28215.35,"end":28217.35,"text":"黃金房這其實一個"},{"start":28217.35,"end":28219.35,"text":"是價價轉售是一般的"},{"start":28219.35,"end":28221.35,"text":"那其他有所謂的不正方式"},{"start":28221.35,"end":28223.35,"text":"那不正方式其實售票平台在第一時間"},{"start":28223.35,"end":28225.35,"text":"他其實一旦在熱門演唱會開賣"},{"start":28225.35,"end":28227.35,"text":"有任何異常情形"},{"start":28227.35,"end":28229.35,"text":"其實都會第一時間將相關的記錄"},{"start":28229.35,"end":28231.35,"text":"移送我們我們也就會立刻"},{"start":28231.35,"end":28233.35,"text":"第一時間先行通報後面"},{"start":28233.35,"end":28235.35,"text":"也會正式的來移送內政部"},{"start":28235.35,"end":28237.35,"text":"警政署那另外在剛剛"},{"start":28237.35,"end":28239.35,"text":"委員們提到的其他的精進方式"},{"start":28239.35,"end":28241.35,"text":"我們其實有持續在努力包括在"},{"start":28241.35,"end":28243.35,"text":"實名制的處理上面也會回應"},{"start":28243.35,"end":28245.35,"text":"委員的意見其實委員"},{"start":28245.35,"end":28247.35,"text":"現在售票平台大概我們其實在定期"},{"start":28247.35,"end":28249.35,"text":"都會跟他們做一些討論跟諮詢"},{"start":28249.35,"end":28251.35,"text":"那他們其實也都有持續"},{"start":28251.35,"end":28253.35,"text":"在精進他們因為畢竟現在"},{"start":28253.35,"end":28255.35,"text":"是非常演唱會非常熱門的情況"},{"start":28255.35,"end":28257.35,"text":"他們自己也都有在開發一些科技工具"},{"start":28257.35,"end":28261.35,"text":"那來能夠提高他們的一個服務效率"},{"start":28261.35,"end":28263.35,"text":"那接下來我們也會再關注一下"},{"start":28263.35,"end":28265.35,"text":"業界的需求那我們來事實的"},{"start":28265.35,"end":28267.35,"text":"看看能夠做什麼樣的協助"},{"start":28267.35,"end":28270.35,"text":"那同時也跟我們有跟主要的場館"},{"start":28270.35,"end":28273.35,"text":"還有主辦單位都會當我們知道有那個"},{"start":28273.35,"end":28275.35,"text":"演唱會的訊息的時候其實我們會主動"},{"start":28275.35,"end":28277.35,"text":"因為現在其實各國並沒有"},{"start":28277.35,"end":28279.35,"text":"做強制實名制的這樣的規範"},{"start":28279.35,"end":28281.35,"text":"但是我們其實也觀察市場的反應"},{"start":28281.35,"end":28283.35,"text":"實名制其實在台灣來講"},{"start":28283.35,"end":28285.35,"text":"是算是有效能夠稍微降低"},{"start":28285.35,"end":28287.35,"text":"黃牛的情形所以我們有跟各大場館"},{"start":28287.35,"end":28289.35,"text":"還有主辦單位我們都會在第一時間去"},{"start":28289.35,"end":28291.35,"text":"跟他們做一些討論希望他們能夠"},{"start":28291.35,"end":28293.35,"text":"採取實名制那場館也會配合我們"},{"start":28293.35,"end":28295.35,"text":"就是在檔期的協商上面"},{"start":28295.35,"end":28297.35,"text":"其實會提供一些相關的方案"},{"start":28297.35,"end":28299.35,"text":"來共同促進"},{"start":28299.35,"end":28301.35,"text":"那同時間其實另外一個我們"},{"start":28301.35,"end":28303.35,"text":"執行兩年多來觀察到的一個狀況"},{"start":28303.35,"end":28305.35,"text":"是其實現在國內有非常多"},{"start":28305.35,"end":28307.35,"text":"的一些所謂的黃牛票的訊息"},{"start":28307.35,"end":28309.35,"text":"它其實很大部分程度"},{"start":28309.35,"end":28311.35,"text":"其實我們都會在"},{"start":28311.35,"end":28313.35,"text":"其實很大部分程度其實"},{"start":28313.35,"end":28315.35,"text":"大概是會是所謂的詐騙訊息"},{"start":28315.35,"end":28317.35,"text":"那接下來我們也透過了"},{"start":28317.35,"end":28319.35,"text":"其實打詐平台的一個處理"},{"start":28319.35,"end":28321.35,"text":"還有跟社群平台之間的一些合作"},{"start":28321.35,"end":28323.35,"text":"一旦我們發現有這些疑似"},{"start":28323.35,"end":28325.35,"text":"特別的訊息的帳號"},{"start":28325.35,"end":28327.35,"text":"其實我們也都有建立了管道"},{"start":28327.35,"end":28329.35,"text":"能夠將資訊提供那希望是"},{"start":28329.35,"end":28331.35,"text":"從這個各個面向能夠來"},{"start":28331.9,"end":28333.9,"text":"再強化我們在這個文創法"},{"start":28333.9,"end":28335.9,"text":"實質一條通過之後的一個"},{"start":28335.9,"end":28337.9,"text":"相關處置"},{"start":28337.9,"end":28339.9,"text":"那剛剛主席有提到的關於"},{"start":28339.9,"end":28341.9,"text":"這個部分我們其實也會"},{"start":28341.9,"end":28343.9,"text":"如果有相關的訊息我們會再來"},{"start":28343.9,"end":28345.9,"text":"跟主辦單位還有生發平台做溝通"},{"start":28345.9,"end":28347.9,"text":"因為主要可能會涉及一些消費爭議"},{"start":28347.9,"end":28349.9,"text":"有些部分可能需要尊重"},{"start":28349.9,"end":28351.9,"text":"民間的一個處理方式"},{"start":28351.9,"end":28353.9,"text":"那另外有委員提到"},{"start":28353.9,"end":28355.9,"text":"關於案內的部分"},{"start":28355.9,"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Plus的總編輯"},{"start":28552.99,"end":28554.99,"text":"請問現在人在哪裡"},{"start":28554.99,"end":28556.99,"text":"現在華府"},{"start":28556.99,"end":28558.99,"text":"他從今年4月"},{"start":28558.99,"end":28560.99,"text":"我先講好啊他的職稱叫"},{"start":28560.99,"end":28562.99,"text":"總編輯總編輯不是特派記者"},{"start":28564.56,"end":28566.56,"text":"他從今年4月"},{"start":28566.56,"end":28568.56,"text":"返回美國進行"},{"start":28568.56,"end":28570.56,"text":"長達3個月的海外"},{"start":28570.56,"end":28572.56,"text":"遠距工作"},{"start":28572.56,"end":28574.56,"text":"這檢舉信具名檢舉信指出"},{"start":28574.56,"end":28576.56,"text":"公視員工並無長"},{"start":28576.56,"end":28578.56,"text":"達3個月遠距"},{"start":28578.56,"end":28580.56,"text":"海外工作的潛力"},{"start":28580.56,"end":28582.56,"text":"正常公務員出差"},{"start":28582.56,"end":28584.56,"text":"也就是最多兩週"},{"start":28584.56,"end":28586.56,"text":"那中間是不是"},{"start":28586.56,"end":28588.56,"text":"涉及了植物特權的"},{"start":28588.56,"end":28590.56,"text":"濫用"},{"start":28590.56,"end":28592.56,"text":"而檢舉人也指出啊台灣跟"},{"start":28592.56,"end":28594.56,"text":"美國時差晝夜顛倒"},{"start":28594.56,"end":28596.56,"text":"那總編輯實質管理時間"},{"start":28596.56,"end":28598.56,"text":"大幅縮小"},{"start":28598.56,"end":28600.56,"text":"也無法落實都島的植物"},{"start":28600.56,"end":28602.56,"text":"我詢問過文化部長"},{"start":28602.56,"end":28604.56,"text":"你們有回答我"},{"start":28604.56,"end":28606.56,"text":"你們證實啊總編輯"},{"start":28606.56,"end":28608.56,"text":"曹育芬他的"},{"start":28608.56,"end":28610.56,"text":"遠距工作時間是"},{"start":28610.56,"end":28612.56,"text":"4月20號到7月10號"},{"start":28612.56,"end":28614.56,"text":"沒錯吧對不對"},{"start":28614.56,"end":28616.56,"text":"所以我想總編輯現在當然還在美國"},{"start":28616.56,"end":28618.56,"text":"我今天要講一件什麼事情"},{"start":28618.56,"end":28620.56,"text":"非常有趣啊"},{"start":28620.56,"end":28622.56,"text":"你知道監察院"},{"start":28622.56,"end":28624.56,"text":"在對於Taiwan 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那個"},{"start":29641.73,"end":29643.73,"text":"我就呼籲一下吳思亞委員說的"},{"start":29643.73,"end":29645.73,"text":"就是動一千然後"},{"start":29645.73,"end":29647.73,"text":"摔一千這樣"},{"start":29647.73,"end":29649.73,"text":"那也謝謝部長有自己的"},{"start":29649.73,"end":29651.73,"text":"想法跟說明啦"},{"start":29651.73,"end":29653.73,"text":"那我是不是就也順便加碼就是"},{"start":29653.73,"end":29655.73,"text":"之後的凍值"},{"start":29655.73,"end":29657.73,"text":"是不是可以不需要請委員會同意"},{"start":29657.73,"end":29659.73,"text":"是有教書面報告來就同"},{"start":29659.73,"end":29661.73,"text":"就先可以了這樣好不好"},{"start":29661.73,"end":29663.73,"text":"我就先提這個提議謝謝"},{"start":29665.84,"end":29667.84,"text":"我們把預算處理我覺得要明確"},{"start":29667.84,"end":29669.84,"text":"因為這一幕是包括影視"},{"start":29669.84,"end":29671.84,"text":"音曲很多項"},{"start":29671.84,"end":29673.84,"text":"但是剛剛我們聚焦的是"},{"start":29673.84,"end":29675.84,"text":"羅志強委員他很明確的提出TaiwanPlus"},{"start":29675.84,"end":29677.84,"text":"的精進方案我們也支持"},{"start":29677.84,"end":29679.84,"text":"所以刪跟動其實我認為"},{"start":29679.84,"end":29681.84,"text":"是針對TaiwanPlus不要誤殺"},{"start":29681.84,"end":29683.84,"text":"其他的影視音的"},{"start":29683.84,"end":29685.84,"text":"業務啦所以我覺得"},{"start":29685.84,"end":29687.84,"text":"應當事就是TaiwanPlus"},{"start":29687.84,"end":29689.84,"text":"刪一千又動一千"},{"start":29689.84,"end":29691.84,"text":"這樣好正確啦"},{"start":29691.84,"end":29693.84,"text":"那第二件事情是我也呼嚇"},{"start":29693.84,"end":29695.84,"text":"再結合一下剛剛培育委員所提的"},{"start":29695.84,"end":29697.84,"text":"因為我像我自己"},{"start":29697.84,"end":29699.84,"text":"從剛剛早上到現在每一案"},{"start":29699.84,"end":29701.84,"text":"我提出監督然後經過說明"},{"start":29701.84,"end":29703.84,"text":"那我多數是改成主決議"},{"start":29703.84,"end":29705.84,"text":"可是我的主決議我個人"},{"start":29705.84,"end":29707.84,"text":"我都是循我們過去的往例"},{"start":29707.84,"end":29709.84,"text":"書面報告來使得凍值"},{"start":29709.84,"end":29711.84,"text":"書面報告來就可以凍值"},{"start":29711.84,"end":29713.84,"text":"後來我是剛剛突然才發現主席"},{"start":29713.84,"end":29715.84,"text":"好像在宣讀的時候才試的時候"},{"start":29715.84,"end":29717.84,"text":"都是每一筆都是變成主決議"},{"start":29717.84,"end":29719.84,"text":"都是變成要審查之後"},{"start":29719.84,"end":29721.84,"text":"才能凍值好我要跟主席"},{"start":29721.84,"end":29723.84,"text":"做一下意見的交換"},{"start":29723.84,"end":29725.84,"text":"今年度比較特別"},{"start":29725.84,"end":29727.84,"text":"因為今年度我們現在在審的其實是"},{"start":29727.84,"end":29729.84,"text":"就去年該審完的預算"},{"start":29729.84,"end":29731.84,"text":"照理講已經年終了"},{"start":29731.84,"end":29733.84,"text":"所以說如果今天主席對於"},{"start":29733.84,"end":29735.84,"text":"所有的主決議您的才是"},{"start":29735.84,"end":29737.84,"text":"第一個您的才是不是我個人的"},{"start":29737.84,"end":29739.84,"text":"提案那我們可以溝通"},{"start":29739.84,"end":29741.84,"text":"好我個人是認為書面報告"},{"start":29741.84,"end":29743.84,"text":"就可以凍值在這個當下這一年的"},{"start":29743.84,"end":29745.84,"text":"預算要特別這樣處理是有原因的"},{"start":29745.84,"end":29747.84,"text":"因為已經七月了"},{"start":29747.84,"end":29749.84,"text":"如果說每一個案子主決議"},{"start":29749.84,"end":29751.84,"text":"非常多每一案都要經過"},{"start":29751.84,"end":29753.84,"text":"教育文化委員會同意"},{"start":29753.84,"end":29755.84,"text":"審查再凍值"},{"start":29755.84,"end":29757.84,"text":"其實有一點它等於是"},{"start":29757.84,"end":29759.84,"text":"實質的刪減"},{"start":29759.84,"end":29761.84,"text":"因為已經剩下半年可以用了"},{"start":29762.8,"end":29764.8,"text":"然後你半年之後每一個"},{"start":29764.8,"end":29766.8,"text":"今天有幾百個案四百多個案"},{"start":29766.8,"end":29768.8,"text":"我看改成主決議大概也超過四百案"},{"start":29768.8,"end":29770.8,"text":"每一個案都要再送進"},{"start":29770.8,"end":29772.8,"text":"教文會再審查"},{"start":29772.8,"end":29774.8,"text":"再同意再同值那真的就是"},{"start":29774.8,"end":29776.8,"text":"實質刪減了所以我請主席"},{"start":29776.8,"end":29778.8,"text":"就是在您今天的才是"},{"start":29778.8,"end":29780.8,"text":"的部分我們回到過去"},{"start":29780.8,"end":29782.8,"text":"我們的慣例"},{"start":29782.68,"end":29784.68,"text":"主決議它確實分兩種"},{"start":29784.68,"end":29786.68,"text":"一種是專案報告之後使得凍值"},{"start":29786.68,"end":29788.68,"text":"那個是特別高level的"},{"start":29788.68,"end":29790.68,"text":"可是今天大家經過"},{"start":29790.68,"end":29792.68,"text":"討論之後都接受他們的"},{"start":29792.68,"end":29794.68,"text":"說明所以像我覺得"},{"start":29794.68,"end":29796.68,"text":"我的理解包括我自己的提案都是"},{"start":29796.68,"end":29798.68,"text":"我改成主決議"},{"start":29798.68,"end":29800.68,"text":"提出書面報告就可以凍值"},{"start":29800.68,"end":29802.68,"text":"這是我真的要懇請主席"},{"start":29802.68,"end":29804.68,"text":"因為今年的狀況也特別不一樣"},{"start":29804.68,"end":29806.68,"text":"要不然四百多案"},{"start":29806.68,"end":29808.68,"text":"我們來不及審"},{"start":29808.68,"end":29810.68,"text":"它等於是實質的刪減"},{"start":29810.68,"end":29812.68,"text":"這個事情姿勢挺大"},{"start":29815.25,"end":29817.25,"text":"主決議分兩種一種是要專案報告"},{"start":29817.25,"end":29819.25,"text":"之後才能夠精同意"},{"start":29819.25,"end":29821.25,"text":"對不對分兩個層次"},{"start":29821.25,"end":29823.25,"text":"一個是專案報告或"},{"start":29823.25,"end":29825.25,"text":"書面報告一個是"},{"start":29825.25,"end":29827.25,"text":"送來就可以凍值或者是審查"},{"start":29827.25,"end":29829.25,"text":"之後才可以凍值"},{"start":29829.25,"end":29831.25,"text":"我們今天多數都是書面"},{"start":29831.25,"end":29833.25,"text":"報告之後使得凍值"},{"start":29833.25,"end":29835.25,"text":"這真的是要懇請主席"},{"start":29835.25,"end":29837.25,"text":"要重新去恢復我們"},{"start":29837.25,"end":29839.25,"text":"原始的主張就我的"},{"start":29839.25,"end":29841.25,"text":"每一個案子我都是書面報告"},{"start":29841.25,"end":29843.25,"text":"之後就可以凍值否則真的是"},{"start":29843.25,"end":29845.25,"text":"實質刪減因為現在已經一半"},{"start":29845.25,"end":29847.25,"text":"我們下個會期也不可能"},{"start":29847.25,"end":29849.25,"text":"也不可能"},{"start":29849.25,"end":29851.25,"text":"全部光排這個"},{"start":29851.25,"end":29853.25,"text":"四百多個案子審查再凍值"},{"start":29853.25,"end":29855.25,"text":"就年底了"},{"start":29855.25,"end":29857.25,"text":"這個一定要跟主席做這樣子的說明"},{"start":29857.25,"end":29859.25,"text":"所以您可以統合在中正"},{"start":29859.25,"end":29861.25,"text":"把上面的這些主決議的案子"},{"start":29861.25,"end":29863.25,"text":"再做一個清楚的釐清"},{"start":29863.25,"end":29865.25,"text":"這懇請主席聽到"},{"start":29865.25,"end":29867.25,"text":"我的這個建議謝謝"},{"start":29868.37,"end":29870.37,"text":"好首先因為有委員提出"},{"start":29870.37,"end":29872.37,"text":"這個部分的需求"},{"start":29872.37,"end":29874.37,"text":"所以我特別跟大家講解一下"},{"start":29874.37,"end":29876.37,"text":"我們在這個裡面"},{"start":29876.37,"end":29878.37,"text":"都很詳細的登記哪一些"},{"start":29878.37,"end":29880.37,"text":"改成主決議那我都會正常"},{"start":29880.37,"end":29882.37,"text":"都會在念除以上個案之外"},{"start":29884.75,"end":29886.75,"text":"合併"},{"start":29886.24,"end":29888.24,"text":"凍結"},{"start":29887.57,"end":29889.57,"text":"凍結完依凍結的要求"},{"start":29889.57,"end":29891.57,"text":"該凍結的要求"},{"start":29891.57,"end":29893.57,"text":"要經書面報告"},{"start":29893.57,"end":29895.57,"text":"經委員同意才可凍值"},{"start":29895.57,"end":29897.57,"text":"這個是我早上的決議"},{"start":29897.57,"end":29899.57,"text":"那所以"},{"start":29899.57,"end":29901.57,"text":"不會有委員擔心的就是"},{"start":29901.57,"end":29903.57,"text":"主決議案"},{"start":29903.57,"end":29905.57,"text":"還要再提出書面報告以後"},{"start":29905.57,"end":29907.57,"text":"再經由委員同意"},{"start":29907.57,"end":29909.57,"text":"我們只針對被凍結的案"},{"start":29909.57,"end":29911.57,"text":"所以不會有四百多案"},{"start":29911.57,"end":29913.57,"text":"我只要說"},{"start":29913.57,"end":29915.57,"text":"我們只針對被凍結的案"},{"start":29915.57,"end":29917.57,"text":"所以不會有四百多案"},{"start":29917.57,"end":29919.57,"text":"這個跟委員先做一個報告"},{"start":29919.57,"end":29921.57,"text":"釐清不要誤會"},{"start":29921.57,"end":29923.57,"text":"因為一有誤會的話大家就沒有再聚焦"},{"start":29923.57,"end":29925.57,"text":"沒有我們凍結案哪有到幾百案"},{"start":29929.57,"end":29931.57,"text":"我們先你算一下我們凍結案"},{"start":29931.57,"end":29933.57,"text":"到幾有幾百案嗎"},{"start":29933.57,"end":29935.57,"text":"基本上今天最多的凍結案"},{"start":29935.57,"end":29937.57,"text":"就早上那個六案"},{"start":29937.57,"end":29939.57,"text":"八百而已"},{"start":29939.57,"end":29941.57,"text":"那再來第二個要講的是"},{"start":29941.57,"end":29943.57,"text":"我們當然知道已經到了"},{"start":29943.57,"end":29945.57,"text":"年終了"},{"start":29945.57,"end":29947.57,"text":"已經有一些預算已經需要使用了"},{"start":29947.57,"end":29949.57,"text":"可是問題是大家要特別"},{"start":29949.57,"end":29951.57,"text":"知道今天凍結的"},{"start":29951.57,"end":29953.57,"text":"都是幾億的"},{"start":29953.57,"end":29955.57,"text":"預算凍結百萬"},{"start":29955.57,"end":29957.57,"text":"凍結"},{"start":29957.57,"end":29959.57,"text":"沒有到是過半的沒有到說"},{"start":29959.57,"end":29961.57,"text":"直接會癱瘓不諱的這一點也跟大家"},{"start":29961.57,"end":29963.57,"text":"做一個特別報告"},{"start":29963.57,"end":29965.57,"text":"就我所了解目前可能凍結"},{"start":29965.57,"end":29967.57,"text":"案數大概可能因為是"},{"start":29967.57,"end":29969.57,"text":"合併凍"},{"start":29968.93,"end":29970.93,"text":"所以大概"},{"start":29971.51,"end":29973.51,"text":"可能不到十案吧"},{"start":29973.51,"end":29975.51,"text":"不到十案"},{"start":29975.51,"end":29977.51,"text":"我覺得大家還是確認一下"},{"start":29977.51,"end":29979.51,"text":"你很詳細我同意"},{"start":29979.51,"end":29981.51,"text":"因為剛剛我們突然"},{"start":29981.51,"end":29983.51,"text":"像我覺得Taiwan plus這個"},{"start":29983.51,"end":29985.51,"text":"我可以認為"},{"start":29985.7,"end":29987.7,"text":"量分層次嘛"},{"start":29987.7,"end":29989.7,"text":"專案報告或書面報告"},{"start":29989.7,"end":29991.7,"text":"然後經同意之後"},{"start":29991.7,"end":29993.7,"text":"使得凍結或者是送來報告"},{"start":29993.7,"end":29995.7,"text":"就可以凍結其實它是四個層次"},{"start":29995.7,"end":29997.7,"text":"沒關係誰案我們這一案處理"},{"start":29997.7,"end":29999.7,"text":"但我覺得之前的是不是"},{"start":29999.7,"end":30001.7,"text":"都是我們正常的"},{"start":30001.7,"end":30003.7,"text":"理解就是"},{"start":30003.7,"end":30005.7,"text":"送書面報告就可以凍結"},{"start":30005.7,"end":30007.7,"text":"這今年的狀況特殊"},{"start":30007.7,"end":30009.7,"text":"我建議是這樣"},{"start":30009.7,"end":30011.7,"text":"現在我們處理這一案"},{"start":30011.7,"end":30013.7,"text":"Taiwan plus是可以"},{"start":30013.7,"end":30015.7,"text":"經同意之後使得凍結我同意"},{"start":30015.7,"end":30017.7,"text":"這是給他非常高規格的嚴格"},{"start":30017.7,"end":30019.7,"text":"的要求就這個案子"},{"start":30019.7,"end":30021.7,"text":"因為Taiwan plus對不起你說這一案要怎麼樣"},{"start":30021.7,"end":30023.7,"text":"凍結我同意是"},{"start":30023.7,"end":30025.7,"text":"最高規格的要經"},{"start":30025.7,"end":30027.7,"text":"審查同意才得凍結"},{"start":30027.7,"end":30029.7,"text":"這是最高規格我同意"},{"start":30029.7,"end":30031.7,"text":"但是之前的那些案我認為"},{"start":30031.7,"end":30033.7,"text":"在這個大家討論"},{"start":30033.7,"end":30035.7,"text":"的過程當中我的感受我是"},{"start":30035.7,"end":30037.7,"text":"覺得送書面報告就可以凍結"},{"start":30037.7,"end":30039.7,"text":"好不好跟自己做這樣的偷偷"},{"start":30039.7,"end":30041.7,"text":"我們現在計算出來喔"},{"start":30041.7,"end":30043.7,"text":"早上大概凍結的是17個案子"},{"start":30043.7,"end":30045.7,"text":"沒有到400案喔請您放心"},{"start":30045.7,"end":30047.7,"text":"那再來第二個"},{"start":30047.7,"end":30049.7,"text":"因為我主決議的話我們就確定"},{"start":30049.7,"end":30051.7,"text":"就是經主決議"},{"start":30051.7,"end":30053.7,"text":"的部分書面報告"},{"start":30053.7,"end":30055.7,"text":"就可以使得凍結"},{"start":30055.7,"end":30057.7,"text":"但這17案"},{"start":30057.7,"end":30059.7,"text":"不好意思我也已經做了宣告"},{"start":30059.7,"end":30061.7,"text":"就是要經"},{"start":30061.7,"end":30063.7,"text":"書面報告委員"},{"start":30063.7,"end":30065.7,"text":"同意才使得凍結我不能再"},{"start":30065.7,"end":30067.7,"text":"更改"},{"start":30067.7,"end":30069.7,"text":"會議還沒結束前是可以更改的"},{"start":30069.7,"end":30071.7,"text":"因為我們真的沒有注意到"},{"start":30071.7,"end":30073.7,"text":"你們的每一個宣讀是這樣"},{"start":30073.7,"end":30075.7,"text":"沒有大家一起討論嘛"},{"start":30075.7,"end":30077.7,"text":"我已經做宣告了就不能夠回頭"},{"start":30077.7,"end":30079.7,"text":"在討論了不好意思"},{"start":30079.7,"end":30081.7,"text":"我們即使在下一次會議確認一事入都可以"},{"start":30081.7,"end":30083.7,"text":"調整所以我們現在提出更正"},{"start":30083.7,"end":30085.7,"text":"你提出你的更正但不好意思"},{"start":30085.7,"end":30087.7,"text":"那你要接受大家的意見啊"},{"start":30087.7,"end":30089.7,"text":"我再提出更正你個人就說"},{"start":30089.7,"end":30091.7,"text":"因為我早上已經宣告"},{"start":30091.7,"end":30093.7,"text":"有些委員都已經離開了"},{"start":30093.7,"end":30095.7,"text":"他們都已經有得到"},{"start":30095.7,"end":30097.7,"text":"這樣子的一個他們希望"},{"start":30097.7,"end":30099.7,"text":"能夠更謹慎的去面對這件事"},{"start":30099.7,"end":30101.7,"text":"我們都坐在這裡審查"},{"start":30103.17,"end":30105.17,"text":"17個案子"},{"start":30105.17,"end":30107.17,"text":"我覺得也是會因為你真的"},{"start":30107.17,"end":30109.17,"text":"就等於實質刪減了"},{"start":30110.29,"end":30112.29,"text":"真的等於實質刪減了"},{"start":30112.29,"end":30114.29,"text":"因為要送來"},{"start":30114.29,"end":30116.29,"text":"報告還要再審查"},{"start":30116.29,"end":30118.29,"text":"再同意即使是"},{"start":30118.29,"end":30120.29,"text":"17個案子請問"},{"start":30120.29,"end":30122.29,"text":"蕉瑋你要排幾次的會"},{"start":30122.29,"end":30124.29,"text":"而且下個會期的蕉瑋是誰"},{"start":30124.29,"end":30126.29,"text":"他要把他的時間"},{"start":30126.29,"end":30128.29,"text":"我們不是專案報告使得動機"},{"start":30128.29,"end":30130.29,"text":"我們是書面報告"},{"start":30130.29,"end":30132.29,"text":"精美的那你就變得審查"},{"start":30132.29,"end":30134.29,"text":"你就得審查你就得排案子"},{"start":30134.29,"end":30136.29,"text":"要要要你需要排"},{"start":30136.29,"end":30138.29,"text":"一個預算會議審查"},{"start":30138.29,"end":30140.29,"text":"然後那些書面報告的案子"},{"start":30140.29,"end":30142.29,"text":"才可以動這是需要的"},{"start":30142.29,"end":30144.29,"text":"我負責的部會"},{"start":30144.29,"end":30146.29,"text":"基本上我們都是下這一個決議"},{"start":30146.29,"end":30148.29,"text":"所以"},{"start":30148.29,"end":30150.29,"text":"往前推的運動部"},{"start":30150.29,"end":30152.29,"text":"跟國科會故宮其實蠻多"},{"start":30152.29,"end":30154.29,"text":"都是這樣子的案例"},{"start":30154.38,"end":30156.38,"text":"好那因為今天我所理解"},{"start":30156.38,"end":30158.38,"text":"我們文化部的案子"},{"start":30158.38,"end":30160.38,"text":"被凍結的數是比過"},{"start":30160.38,"end":30162.38,"text":"比教育部運動部都多"},{"start":30164.06,"end":30166.06,"text":"所以從這個會議上"},{"start":30166.06,"end":30168.06,"text":"我們要釐清這個處理"},{"start":30168.06,"end":30170.06,"text":"我們非常理性在"},{"start":30170.06,"end":30172.06,"text":"溝通喔"},{"start":30172.06,"end":30174.06,"text":"因為文化部今天被凍結的17個"},{"start":30174.06,"end":30176.06,"text":"比我們教育部比我們運動部"},{"start":30176.06,"end":30178.06,"text":"都還要多案"},{"start":30178.06,"end":30180.06,"text":"而且金額更高"},{"start":30180.06,"end":30182.06,"text":"我們先確認數字好不好"},{"start":30181.82,"end":30183.82,"text":"那這個案子就是1000"},{"start":30183.82,"end":30185.82,"text":"剛剛講嘛砍1000動1000"},{"start":30185.82,"end":30187.82,"text":"但我是請您要處理"},{"start":30187.82,"end":30189.82,"text":"之前的那17個案子"},{"start":30189.82,"end":30191.82,"text":"我們再確認一下大家共同的意見"},{"start":30191.82,"end":30193.82,"text":"還沒散會之前都可以做處理"},{"start":30193.82,"end":30195.82,"text":"還沒有散會之前對於主席的"},{"start":30195.82,"end":30197.82,"text":"才是有疑義我們都可以提出來"},{"start":30197.82,"end":30199.82,"text":"當然你可以提啊"},{"start":30199.82,"end":30201.82,"text":"對我們都可以那主席請"},{"start":30201.82,"end":30203.82,"text":"採納我們的意見"},{"start":30204.51,"end":30206.51,"text":"那也可以聽聽其他委員的意見"},{"start":30206.51,"end":30208.51,"text":"因為真的變成實質刪減了"},{"start":30208.51,"end":30210.51,"text":"那真的變成實質刪減了"},{"start":30210.51,"end":30212.51,"text":"因為今年的狀況特殊"},{"start":30212.99,"end":30214.99,"text":"你還要下會期再排案再排審"},{"start":30214.99,"end":30216.99,"text":"然後一案一案17案"},{"start":30216.99,"end":30218.99,"text":"那你要開幾次會"},{"start":30220.9,"end":30222.9,"text":"真的真的文化預算"},{"start":30224.19,"end":30226.19,"text":"得來不易到現在都還沒有1%"},{"start":30226.19,"end":30228.19,"text":"的國家政府總預算的比例"},{"start":30228.95,"end":30230.95,"text":"這是我的意見"},{"start":30230.95,"end":30232.95,"text":"那您聽聽其他委員的意見"},{"start":30233.62,"end":30235.62,"text":"好我們就96先處理的話"},{"start":30235.62,"end":30237.62,"text":"我還是要再提出說"},{"start":30237.62,"end":30239.62,"text":"我剛剛看到"},{"start":30239.62,"end":30241.62,"text":"羅志祥委員"},{"start":30241.62,"end":30243.62,"text":"他是"},{"start":30243.62,"end":30245.62,"text":"31000動1000"},{"start":30245.62,"end":30247.62,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30247.62,"end":30249.62,"text":"90"},{"start":30249.62,"end":30251.62,"text":"110案"},{"start":30251.62,"end":30253.62,"text":"他110案是31000動1000"},{"start":30253.62,"end":30255.62,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30255.62,"end":30257.62,"text":"90案"},{"start":30258.02,"end":30260.02,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30260.02,"end":30262.02,"text":"90案是"},{"start":30262.02,"end":30264.02,"text":"90案"},{"start":30264.02,"end":30266.02,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30266.02,"end":30268.02,"text":"90案"},{"start":30268.02,"end":30270.02,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30270.02,"end":30272.02,"text":"90案"},{"start":30272.02,"end":30274.02,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30274.02,"end":30276.02,"text":"90案"},{"start":30276.02,"end":30278.02,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30278.02,"end":30280.02,"text":"90案"},{"start":30280.02,"end":30282.02,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30282.02,"end":30284.02,"text":"90案"},{"start":30284.02,"end":30286.02,"text":"那我自己的提案是"},{"start":30261.13,"end":30263.13,"text":"我是動1000"},{"start":30263.07,"end":30265.07,"text":"你是動100啊"},{"start":30265.07,"end":30267.07,"text":"動100 對不起"},{"start":30267.37,"end":30269.37,"text":"唉"},{"start":30270.56,"end":30272.56,"text":"來順著委員"},{"start":30272.94,"end":30274.94,"text":"我再確認一下我剛剛那個是動"},{"start":30274.94,"end":30276.94,"text":"1000"},{"start":30276.94,"end":30278.94,"text":"動1000啊"},{"start":30278.94,"end":30280.94,"text":"我一直擔心說"},{"start":30280.94,"end":30282.94,"text":"我1000萬加"},{"start":30282.94,"end":30284.94,"text":"羅偉1000萬變2000萬不是吧"},{"start":30284.94,"end":30286.94,"text":"1000萬嘛"},{"start":30286.94,"end":30288.94,"text":"沒關係你只要講清楚就好"},{"start":30288.94,"end":30290.94,"text":"但是我不怕你放回放"},{"start":30290.94,"end":30292.94,"text":"我剛剛是真的問你是不是1000加1000"},{"start":30292.94,"end":30294.94,"text":"你說對啊對啊"},{"start":30294.94,"end":30296.94,"text":"那你現在正式宣告好不好"},{"start":30296.94,"end":30298.94,"text":"那我就是我"},{"start":30298.94,"end":30300.94,"text":"個人動1000萬"},{"start":30301.38,"end":30303.38,"text":"病動1000萬"},{"start":30303.38,"end":30305.38,"text":"好大家文字還是要講清楚"},{"start":30305.38,"end":30307.38,"text":"我個人動1000"},{"start":30307.38,"end":30309.38,"text":"這個的話就"},{"start":30309.38,"end":30311.38,"text":"沒有病動兩個字的話我們就是拉開"},{"start":30311.38,"end":30313.38,"text":"分開談好不好"},{"start":30313.38,"end":30315.38,"text":"我們是一直病動嗎"},{"start":30315.99,"end":30317.99,"text":"我知道他後面補病動所以我提醒大家"},{"start":30317.99,"end":30319.99,"text":"個人動跟病動要講清楚"},{"start":30319.99,"end":30321.99,"text":"主席我的98案114案"},{"start":30321.99,"end":30323.99,"text":"主決議改成主決議"},{"start":30326.72,"end":30328.72,"text":"好把它登記起來"},{"start":30328.72,"end":30330.72,"text":"那我這邊100再加上去"},{"start":30330.72,"end":30332.72,"text":"我個人動"},{"start":30334.06,"end":30336.06,"text":"好那現階段"},{"start":30336.06,"end":30338.06,"text":"有刪除1000"},{"start":30338.06,"end":30340.06,"text":"簡列1000"},{"start":30341.15,"end":30343.15,"text":"動結1001"},{"start":30343.15,"end":30345.15,"text":"潘博遠有意見"},{"start":30344.58,"end":30346.58,"text":"我們再確認一下"},{"start":30346.58,"end":30348.58,"text":"刪減1000再動1000"},{"start":30348.58,"end":30350.58,"text":"是110案嘛"},{"start":30350.58,"end":30352.58,"text":"針對台灣PLUS嘛"},{"start":30352.58,"end":30354.58,"text":"那昭偉另外額外在100萬"},{"start":30354.58,"end":30356.58,"text":"針對影視音這裡的動結100萬"},{"start":30356.58,"end":30358.58,"text":"你們可以去調整嘛"},{"start":30358.58,"end":30360.58,"text":"對不對是這樣子的嘛"},{"start":30360.24,"end":30364.24,"text":"是啊 還是昭偉您的也是要針對台灣PLUS"},{"start":30366.18,"end":30368.18,"text":"是別的案嘛"},{"start":30368.18,"end":30370.18,"text":"那我要跟他分開來"},{"start":30370.18,"end":30372.18,"text":"那如果這樣釐清的話就針對台灣PLUS"},{"start":30372.18,"end":30374.18,"text":"刪1000動1000"},{"start":30374.18,"end":30376.18,"text":"然後羅昭偉這個針對影視"},{"start":30376.18,"end":30378.18,"text":"流行業發展業務動結"},{"start":30378.18,"end":30380.18,"text":"100萬這樣"},{"start":30380.55,"end":30382.55,"text":"那"},{"start":30381.99,"end":30383.99,"text":"那剛剛台灣PLUS我覺得是"},{"start":30383.99,"end":30385.99,"text":"經同意以後使得動之我接受"},{"start":30385.99,"end":30387.99,"text":"但其他的案子我希望"},{"start":30387.99,"end":30389.99,"text":"就是書面報告就可以"},{"start":30389.99,"end":30391.99,"text":"就回到我剛剛說的"},{"start":30391.44,"end":30393.44,"text":"看其他委員的意見"},{"start":30394.21,"end":30396.21,"text":"45億動100"},{"start":30397.06,"end":30399.06,"text":"你自己提的"},{"start":30399.06,"end":30401.06,"text":"沒有大家支持文化嘛"},{"start":30401.06,"end":30403.06,"text":"好不好"},{"start":30403.06,"end":30405.06,"text":"手下已經留情了但是真的要"},{"start":30405.06,"end":30407.06,"text":"給改善計畫"},{"start":30407.06,"end":30409.06,"text":"但現階段你要我在這邊處理說"},{"start":30409.06,"end":30411.06,"text":"書面報告就可以直接"},{"start":30411.06,"end":30413.06,"text":"動之對不起我不接受"},{"start":30414.34,"end":30416.34,"text":"因為我剛剛已經講的很清楚了"},{"start":30416.34,"end":30418.34,"text":"每一年你補助的國片"},{"start":30418.34,"end":30420.34,"text":"每一年喔"},{"start":30420.34,"end":30422.34,"text":"你賠的錢"},{"start":30422.34,"end":30430.34,"text":"賠823萬賠897萬賠997萬賠1169萬賠1437萬賠1782萬"},{"start":30430.34,"end":30432.34,"text":"再加羅志祥委員今天"},{"start":30432.34,"end":30434.34,"text":"今年度所提到的"},{"start":30434.34,"end":30436.34,"text":"該影片又賠更多錢"},{"start":30436.95,"end":30438.95,"text":"我們要的是金金計畫"},{"start":30440.02,"end":30442.02,"text":"那你告訴我你書面報告一來就可以動"},{"start":30442.02,"end":30444.02,"text":"那萬一我不同意你的"},{"start":30444.02,"end":30446.02,"text":"金金計畫"},{"start":30446.02,"end":30448.02,"text":"那不是等於又打水漂"},{"start":30448.02,"end":30450.02,"text":"對人民沒有辦法交代嘛"},{"start":30449.98,"end":30451.98,"text":"那你提出更好的方案你明天提出來"},{"start":30451.98,"end":30453.98,"text":"你六日提出來給我"},{"start":30453.98,"end":30455.98,"text":"我都一定"},{"start":30455.98,"end":30457.98,"text":"等待你但如果你要"},{"start":30457.98,"end":30459.98,"text":"拖到半年後提出來那是你的"},{"start":30459.98,"end":30461.98,"text":"權益嘛所以我每一次做決議"},{"start":30461.98,"end":30463.98,"text":"的時候我都講不要因為被動100萬"},{"start":30463.98,"end":30465.98,"text":"覺得閒錢少"},{"start":30465.98,"end":30467.98,"text":"那你就不去"},{"start":30467.98,"end":30469.98,"text":"想辦法跟我們"},{"start":30469.98,"end":30471.98,"text":"稍微我現在在討論不是金額"},{"start":30471.98,"end":30473.98,"text":"的多寡是今年的時間"},{"start":30473.98,"end":30475.98,"text":"已經壓縮到過了半年了"},{"start":30477.89,"end":30479.89,"text":"那您自己的這一案"},{"start":30479.89,"end":30481.89,"text":"因為我們剛剛講的是那"},{"start":30481.89,"end":30483.89,"text":"1000萬大家有共識嗎"},{"start":30483.89,"end":30485.89,"text":"那稍微的這個100萬"},{"start":30486.55,"end":30488.55,"text":"我尊重招偽要動啊但我覺得需要"},{"start":30488.55,"end":30490.55,"text":"就是整幕"},{"start":30491.68,"end":30493.68,"text":"對"},{"start":30494.16,"end":30496.16,"text":"那就書面報告時的動機還是稍微也堅持"},{"start":30496.16,"end":30498.16,"text":"他要審查才能動機"},{"start":30501.43,"end":30503.43,"text":"對阿對阿"},{"start":30503.43,"end":30505.43,"text":"然後羅委員的是110"},{"start":30507.05,"end":30509.05,"text":"110"},{"start":30509.05,"end":30511.05,"text":"所以我們是分開的"},{"start":30511.05,"end":30513.05,"text":"他處理他那個部分"},{"start":30513.05,"end":30515.05,"text":"我處理影視音的部分"},{"start":30515.12,"end":30517.12,"text":"稍微的意思是他是這一幕"},{"start":30517.12,"end":30519.12,"text":"好啊"},{"start":30519.12,"end":30521.12,"text":"那他自己寫的他的第幾案我看一下"},{"start":30521.12,"end":30523.12,"text":"對阿就分開啊分開"},{"start":30523.82,"end":30525.82,"text":"稍微稍後一下喔"},{"start":30525.82,"end":30527.82,"text":"招偽的是第90案嘛"},{"start":30529.43,"end":30531.43,"text":"招偽的是第"},{"start":30531.43,"end":30533.43,"text":"等一下招偽的是那個嘛"},{"start":30533.43,"end":30535.43,"text":"我們就各做各的嘛"},{"start":30535.43,"end":30537.43,"text":"羅志祥委員做他的110案嘛"},{"start":30537.43,"end":30539.43,"text":"那我做我的90案嘛"},{"start":30539.43,"end":30541.43,"text":"對不對"},{"start":30545.64,"end":30547.64,"text":"好啦那招偽您的這一案"},{"start":30547.64,"end":30549.64,"text":"您要專案報告時的動機"},{"start":30549.64,"end":30551.64,"text":"沒有書面報告金委員"},{"start":30551.64,"end":30553.64,"text":"同意後動機"},{"start":30553.64,"end":30555.64,"text":"好那這個案現在開始大家都理解到"},{"start":30555.64,"end":30557.64,"text":"我們等一下會勝出"},{"start":30557.64,"end":30559.64,"text":"好那這個招偽有獎金"},{"start":30559.64,"end":30561.64,"text":"45億動100"},{"start":30561.64,"end":30563.64,"text":"我們沒有意見"},{"start":30563.64,"end":30565.64,"text":"那之前那我剛剛跟您請示的是"},{"start":30565.64,"end":30567.64,"text":"之前那十幾案的處理呢"},{"start":30567.64,"end":30569.64,"text":"因為我們真的"},{"start":30569.64,"end":30571.64,"text":"基本上其他的委員都離開了"},{"start":30571.64,"end":30573.64,"text":"我想當時大家"},{"start":30573.64,"end":30575.64,"text":"還是會安心這樣子的一個宣告"},{"start":30576.81,"end":30578.81,"text":"那我們大家文化部門大家就要知道"},{"start":30578.81,"end":30580.81,"text":"你們等於今天的動幾案"},{"start":30580.81,"end":30582.81,"text":"都是被實質刪減的意思"},{"start":30582.81,"end":30584.81,"text":"如果您要說這是實質刪減的話"},{"start":30584.81,"end":30586.81,"text":"我尊重您的言論自由"},{"start":30586.81,"end":30588.81,"text":"但我剛剛講的第一它不是400案"},{"start":30588.81,"end":30590.81,"text":"第二17案還減1案"},{"start":30590.81,"end":30592.81,"text":"17案還減1案"},{"start":30592.81,"end":30594.81,"text":"因為我們在"},{"start":30594.81,"end":30596.81,"text":"第一幕的時候"},{"start":30596.81,"end":30598.81,"text":"來你只要給我看一下"},{"start":30598.81,"end":30600.81,"text":"這是我的意見我的提醒"},{"start":30600.81,"end":30602.81,"text":"18案減1案喔"},{"start":30602.81,"end":30604.81,"text":"17案減1案總共是17案"},{"start":30604.81,"end":30606.81,"text":"17案我們"},{"start":30606.81,"end":30608.81,"text":"是要經書面報告"},{"start":30608.81,"end":30610.81,"text":"經委員同意使得動之"},{"start":30611.94,"end":30613.94,"text":"因為我可以舉個例子嗎"},{"start":30616.62,"end":30618.62,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":30618.62,"end":30620.62,"text":"譬如說"},{"start":30620.62,"end":30622.62,"text":"有很多如果要往前翻啦"},{"start":30622.62,"end":30624.62,"text":"我不好意思我不是故意的啦"},{"start":30624.62,"end":30626.62,"text":"我剛好拿到我手上翻到這一案"},{"start":30626.62,"end":30628.62,"text":"像那個志祥委員你的76案"},{"start":30628.62,"end":30630.62,"text":"你自己寫的就是書面報告"},{"start":30630.62,"end":30632.62,"text":"就得動之"},{"start":30632.62,"end":30634.62,"text":"我換言之說每一個委員在上面"},{"start":30634.62,"end":30636.62,"text":"審查的每一個案子"},{"start":30636.62,"end":30638.62,"text":"剛剛有的委員就是這是"},{"start":30638.62,"end":30640.62,"text":"羅志祥委員的案子他也寫提出書面報告"},{"start":30640.62,"end":30642.62,"text":"就得動之"},{"start":30642.62,"end":30644.62,"text":"可是主席您的從頭到尾17個案子"},{"start":30644.62,"end":30646.62,"text":"都是要審查之後"},{"start":30646.62,"end":30648.62,"text":"才能動之"},{"start":30648.62,"end":30650.62,"text":"跟提出報告後就得動之是不一樣的"},{"start":30650.62,"end":30652.62,"text":"那今天還沒有"},{"start":30652.62,"end":30654.62,"text":"今天還沒有散會"},{"start":30654.62,"end":30656.62,"text":"所以我才發現"},{"start":30656.62,"end":30658.62,"text":"那我們的案子呢我們再跟您提出"},{"start":30658.62,"end":30660.62,"text":"這樣的提醒"},{"start":30661.84,"end":30663.84,"text":"我們是病動的是決意制的"},{"start":30664.8,"end":30666.8,"text":"那我們做在現場的委員都不是委員嗎"},{"start":30666.8,"end":30668.8,"text":"不是啊因為已經決議完了"},{"start":30668.8,"end":30670.8,"text":"就不要回過頭了"},{"start":30670.8,"end":30672.8,"text":"因為會議還沒有結束啊"},{"start":30672.8,"end":30674.8,"text":"在今天會議還沒有結束裡"},{"start":30674.8,"end":30676.8,"text":"裡頭我們發現這樣子"},{"start":30676.8,"end":30678.8,"text":"您宣讀上的跟我們的理解不同"},{"start":30678.8,"end":30680.8,"text":"我們提出來討論不行嗎"},{"start":30682.3,"end":30684.3,"text":"可以你可以討論後面的啊"},{"start":30684.3,"end":30686.3,"text":"前面的已經宣告了"},{"start":30686.3,"end":30688.3,"text":"那是您個人的宣告跟我們的理解不同啊"},{"start":30688.3,"end":30690.3,"text":"我就代表這一次的"},{"start":30690.3,"end":30692.3,"text":"我想這個經過"},{"start":30692.3,"end":30694.3,"text":"團議的經過已經大家協商的喔"},{"start":30694.3,"end":30696.3,"text":"來我先處理一下事情喔"},{"start":30696.3,"end":30698.3,"text":"我們現在因為待會呢"},{"start":30698.3,"end":30700.3,"text":"主席我是這個echo5c"},{"start":30700.3,"end":30702.3,"text":"因為剛剛cio說echo5c"},{"start":30702.3,"end":30704.3,"text":"不好意思因為我要先處理事情"},{"start":30704.3,"end":30706.3,"text":"因為我們待會要"},{"start":30706.3,"end":30708.3,"text":"給大家用餐喔"},{"start":30708.3,"end":30710.3,"text":"那有需要便當的話可以來登記"},{"start":30710.3,"end":30712.3,"text":"那我們今天的話呢是採"},{"start":30712.3,"end":30714.3,"text":"登記制"},{"start":30714.3,"end":30716.3,"text":"我們就不主動採買"},{"start":30716.3,"end":30718.3,"text":"因為有些人不需要"},{"start":30718.86,"end":30720.86,"text":"那我們不要浪費錢"},{"start":30720.86,"end":30722.86,"text":"那有要登記便當的"},{"start":30722.86,"end":30724.86,"text":"麻煩跟我們議事人員"},{"start":30724.86,"end":30726.86,"text":"我們是建議就趕快審查吧"},{"start":30726.86,"end":30728.86,"text":"但是剛剛是要我們最後可以再處理"},{"start":30728.86,"end":30730.86,"text":"那是你的言論自由"},{"start":30730.86,"end":30732.86,"text":"有人學堂低有人要吃便當"},{"start":30732.86,"end":30734.86,"text":"議事人員請我要宣告一下"},{"start":30734.86,"end":30736.86,"text":"尊重一下好不好"},{"start":30737.98,"end":30739.98,"text":"不需要為了一個便當在那邊吵架吧"},{"start":30739.98,"end":30741.98,"text":"所以我說大家登記制"},{"start":30741.98,"end":30743.98,"text":"你有需要的話你記得來登記"},{"start":30743.98,"end":30745.98,"text":"我們不要一次性採買這麼多"},{"start":30748.48,"end":30750.48,"text":"還要登記制好快喔"},{"start":30751.23,"end":30753.23,"text":"阿不然你要全部買嗎現場全部買嗎"},{"start":30753.23,"end":30755.23,"text":"阿如果沒吃有剩10怎麼辦"},{"start":30758.38,"end":30760.38,"text":"好還是請委員提案不要登記制也沒關係"},{"start":30762.66,"end":30764.66,"text":"委員有要嗎"},{"start":30765.09,"end":30767.09,"text":"我們趕快審"},{"start":30767.09,"end":30769.09,"text":"審完就不需要放飯了"},{"start":30769.09,"end":30771.09,"text":"我們加快審了"},{"start":30771.09,"end":30773.09,"text":"那就登記制嘛好不好"},{"start":30773.09,"end":30775.09,"text":"不要我登記制你也要有意見"},{"start":30775.09,"end":30777.09,"text":"有意見你又不願意提出你的版本"},{"start":30777.28,"end":30779.28,"text":"好陳培議委員謝謝"},{"start":30779.02,"end":30781.02,"text":"因為我對訂便當沒有"},{"start":30781.02,"end":30783.02,"text":"我覺得不要讓大家去登記訂便當真的"},{"start":30783.02,"end":30785.02,"text":"我們加速審查"},{"start":30785.02,"end":30787.02,"text":"那委員會可以採買一定的數量"},{"start":30787.02,"end":30789.02,"text":"莊惠他們都很有經驗"},{"start":30789.02,"end":30791.02,"text":"大概什麼樣的數量有需要的人可以去"},{"start":30791.02,"end":30793.02,"text":"你要官員這裡去登記便當"},{"start":30793.02,"end":30795.02,"text":"大家審這個很怪"},{"start":30795.02,"end":30797.02,"text":"沒關係阿"},{"start":30797.02,"end":30799.02,"text":"所以你提案嘛"},{"start":30799.02,"end":30801.02,"text":"那有吳思耀委員提案"},{"start":30801.02,"end":30803.02,"text":"不需要登記制"},{"start":30803.02,"end":30805.02,"text":"那我們就請議事人員依照過往的經驗"},{"start":30805.02,"end":30807.02,"text":"我們就直接採買"},{"start":30807.02,"end":30809.02,"text":"依照吳思耀委員的意見"},{"start":30809.02,"end":30811.02,"text":"我們繼續審查"},{"start":30811.02,"end":30813.02,"text":"莊惠你很奇怪"},{"start":30813.02,"end":30815.02,"text":"什麼時候你都覺得"},{"start":30815.02,"end":30817.02,"text":"你可以才是現在"},{"start":30817.02,"end":30819.02,"text":"依照吳思耀委員意見"},{"start":30819.02,"end":30821.02,"text":"我只跟您提醒不要讓官員"},{"start":30821.02,"end":30823.02,"text":"現在審預算"},{"start":30823.02,"end":30825.02,"text":"我不講便當的問題我想要趕快審預算"},{"start":30825.02,"end":30827.02,"text":"好我趕快審預算"},{"start":30827.02,"end":30829.02,"text":"我們趕快審查預算"},{"start":30828.58,"end":30830.58,"text":"我們趕快審查預算"},{"start":30831.23,"end":30833.23,"text":"人家提醒我我做家這樣子你也不行"},{"start":30833.23,"end":30835.23,"text":"我們趕快審查預算"},{"start":30835.23,"end":30837.23,"text":"拜託不要這樣好不好"},{"start":30837.61,"end":30839.61,"text":"陳培宇委員請發言"},{"start":30839.61,"end":30841.61,"text":"好因為剛剛這個是我提出來的"},{"start":30841.61,"end":30843.61,"text":"那如果按照委員你剛剛說的"},{"start":30843.61,"end":30845.61,"text":"那些不在的委員說的話"},{"start":30845.61,"end":30847.61,"text":"不能被推翻可是因為剛我"},{"start":30847.61,"end":30849.61,"text":"志祥委員也在嘛那現在在場的"},{"start":30849.61,"end":30851.61,"text":"就是下午進到會場繼續"},{"start":30851.61,"end":30853.61,"text":"審查預算的吳佩宇委員"},{"start":30853.61,"end":30855.61,"text":"蔡春筹委員秀寶"},{"start":30855.61,"end":30857.61,"text":"玉琴委員CIA委員志祥委員"},{"start":30857.61,"end":30859.61,"text":"還有我本人陳培宇委員也都在"},{"start":30859.61,"end":30861.61,"text":"主席你也在那假設那些"},{"start":30861.61,"end":30863.61,"text":"離開不論是去做什麼其他"},{"start":30863.61,"end":30865.61,"text":"公務或者是其他個人事務的委員"},{"start":30865.61,"end":30867.61,"text":"他們如果對這件事情有任何意義"},{"start":30867.61,"end":30869.61,"text":"我也不確定他們現在"},{"start":30869.61,"end":30871.61,"text":"可不可以即時趕快表達意見"},{"start":30871.61,"end":30873.61,"text":"在我們今天散會之前所以我"},{"start":30873.61,"end":30875.61,"text":"我在建議我們剛剛那個提議可不可以先暫時"},{"start":30875.61,"end":30877.61,"text":"保留如果到散會前"},{"start":30877.61,"end":30879.61,"text":"再委員回來那我們可以"},{"start":30879.61,"end":30881.61,"text":"再來討論但是我會先希望"},{"start":30881.61,"end":30883.61,"text":"主席可以"},{"start":30883.61,"end":30885.61,"text":"參考一下我們跟"},{"start":30885.61,"end":30887.61,"text":"CIA委員剛剛那個建議"},{"start":30887.61,"end":30889.61,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":30889.61,"end":30891.61,"text":"就是書面報告就得動機"},{"start":30891.61,"end":30893.61,"text":"好那"},{"start":30893.61,"end":30895.61,"text":"我們今天這樣書幕OK啦"},{"start":30896.67,"end":30898.67,"text":"那我們就來處理了"},{"start":30900.52,"end":30902.52,"text":"好"},{"start":30902.32,"end":30904.32,"text":"好那我因為我們這一節"},{"start":30905.19,"end":30907.19,"text":"我們還有下一個"},{"start":30907.74,"end":30909.74,"text":"下一節啦我們"},{"start":30909.74,"end":30911.74,"text":"整幕一起處理啦我們繼續往下討論"},{"start":30914.49,"end":30916.49,"text":"改為主決議的"},{"start":30916.49,"end":30918.49,"text":"9194 9798 100 104"},{"start":30918.49,"end":30920.49,"text":"105 106 107 109"},{"start":30920.49,"end":30922.49,"text":"114 118"},{"start":30924.19,"end":30926.19,"text":"還有我的99 99103"},{"start":30926.19,"end":30928.19,"text":"主決議謝謝"},{"start":30929.14,"end":30931.14,"text":"99103"},{"start":30931.38,"end":30933.38,"text":"99103"},{"start":30933.1,"end":30935.1,"text":"還有陳培喻的125"},{"start":30937.83,"end":30939.83,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":30940.38,"end":30942.38,"text":"125主席謝謝"},{"start":30942.87,"end":30944.87,"text":"好 處以99103"},{"start":30944.87,"end":30946.87,"text":"125 改為主決議"},{"start":30946.87,"end":30948.87,"text":"處以上個案"},{"start":30949.39,"end":30953.39,"text":"我們繼續把這個第五幕"},{"start":30954.5,"end":30956.5,"text":"討論完第二節"},{"start":30956.5,"end":30958.5,"text":"整幕再一起來討論數字"},{"start":30959.76,"end":30961.76,"text":"那第二節影視及"},{"start":30961.76,"end":30963.76,"text":"流行音樂推動的輔導"},{"start":30963.76,"end":30965.76,"text":"提案號是119-134"},{"start":30965.76,"end":30967.76,"text":"請繼續"},{"start":30967.38,"end":30969.38,"text":"好 羅志祥委員"},{"start":30971.07,"end":30973.07,"text":"我的提案121"},{"start":30973.07,"end":30975.07,"text":"剛剛跟文化部"},{"start":30975.07,"end":30977.07,"text":"已經有達成共識"},{"start":30977.07,"end":30979.07,"text":"所以我就改為凍結1000萬"},{"start":30979.07,"end":30981.07,"text":"以上"},{"start":30986.73,"end":30988.73,"text":"其他委員還有意見嗎"},{"start":30989.63,"end":30991.63,"text":"陳培喻委員"},{"start":30996.82,"end":30999.82,"text":"我們是到第幾案的"},{"start":30999.82,"end":31001.82,"text":"請問一下"},{"start":31003.59,"end":31005.59,"text":"119-134"},{"start":31005.59,"end":31007.59,"text":"我的提案是"},{"start":31007.59,"end":31009.59,"text":"126 129"},{"start":31009.59,"end":31011.59,"text":"那我就129來說明"},{"start":31011.59,"end":31013.59,"text":"這個我真的要請"},{"start":31013.59,"end":31015.59,"text":"公視來注意有沒有一個紀錄片真實邊緣"},{"start":31015.59,"end":31017.59,"text":"這個內容是有關"},{"start":31017.59,"end":31019.59,"text":"在這個影視行業"},{"start":31019.59,"end":31021.59,"text":"這個性騷的"},{"start":31021.59,"end":31023.59,"text":"這個內容"},{"start":31023.59,"end":31025.59,"text":"但是公視在"},{"start":31025.59,"end":31027.59,"text":"做社群行銷的時候在IG上面"},{"start":31027.59,"end":31029.59,"text":"有二次剪輯了一個宣傳"},{"start":31029.59,"end":31031.59,"text":"影片"},{"start":31031.59,"end":31033.59,"text":"的剪輯的方式"},{"start":31033.59,"end":31035.59,"text":"去除掉原本這個敘事的脈絡"},{"start":31035.59,"end":31037.59,"text":"而且因為原片它是有一個"},{"start":31037.59,"end":31039.59,"text":"敘事剪輯的手法"},{"start":31039.59,"end":31041.59,"text":"所以它就是讓"},{"start":31041.59,"end":31043.59,"text":"當中的一個備受訪者"},{"start":31043.59,"end":31045.59,"text":"特別的被辨識"},{"start":31045.59,"end":31047.59,"text":"然後被標註"},{"start":31047.59,"end":31049.59,"text":"也造成二次的傷害"},{"start":31049.59,"end":31051.59,"text":"這個個案之後"},{"start":31051.59,"end":31053.59,"text":"我們紀錄片的從業人員職業公會"},{"start":31053.59,"end":31055.59,"text":"有要求"},{"start":31055.59,"end":31057.59,"text":"未來公視在做"},{"start":31057.59,"end":31059.59,"text":"紀錄片的這個行銷"},{"start":31059.59,"end":31061.59,"text":"當你需要做二次剪輯的時候"},{"start":31061.59,"end":31063.59,"text":"必須要有第一個"},{"start":31063.59,"end":31065.59,"text":"讓創作團隊要有知情權"},{"start":31065.59,"end":31067.59,"text":"因為你們這個剪輯連導演都不知道"},{"start":31067.59,"end":31069.59,"text":"沒有經由人家同意然後受訪者也不知道"},{"start":31069.59,"end":31071.59,"text":"再來在合約裡面"},{"start":31071.59,"end":31073.59,"text":"未來要有明確的規範"},{"start":31073.59,"end":31075.59,"text":"所以這個我有提出一個凍結案"},{"start":31075.59,"end":31077.59,"text":"這個我認為這個問題"},{"start":31077.59,"end":31079.59,"text":"不是只是個案而已很嚴重"},{"start":31079.59,"end":31081.59,"text":"所以紀錄片公會已經講了"},{"start":31081.59,"end":31083.59,"text":"這不是第一次發生了請你們務必"},{"start":31083.59,"end":31085.59,"text":"務必未來"},{"start":31085.59,"end":31087.59,"text":"不要再有這樣子的"},{"start":31087.59,"end":31089.59,"text":"錯誤因為這個影片"},{"start":31089.59,"end":31091.59,"text":"我要告訴部長這個你們"},{"start":31091.59,"end":31093.59,"text":"後來算下架可是這個"},{"start":31093.59,"end":31095.59,"text":"造成受訪者二次傷害的影片"},{"start":31095.59,"end":31097.59,"text":"他已經有超過一千次的"},{"start":31097.59,"end":31099.59,"text":"分享跟一千次的儲存"},{"start":31099.59,"end":31101.59,"text":"導致於這個受訪者在"},{"start":31101.59,"end":31103.59,"text":"真實生活當中走在路上"},{"start":31103.59,"end":31105.59,"text":"開始有人會認出他來"},{"start":31105.59,"end":31107.59,"text":"問他說你是不是"},{"start":31107.59,"end":31109.59,"text":"有這樣子的經歷這個對他"},{"start":31109.59,"end":31111.59,"text":"本人造成莫大的這個心理"},{"start":31111.59,"end":31113.59,"text":"的負擔跟傷害所以這個我要拜託"},{"start":31113.59,"end":31115.59,"text":"一下一定要重視這個事情"},{"start":31120.2,"end":31122.2,"text":"好我有三個案子"},{"start":31122.2,"end":31124.2,"text":"那首先我先來談"},{"start":31124.2,"end":31126.2,"text":"123案"},{"start":31126.2,"end":31128.2,"text":"123案是公視基金會"},{"start":31128.2,"end":31130.2,"text":"的一個營運治理"},{"start":31130.2,"end":31132.2,"text":"那公共媒體它最重要是"},{"start":31132.2,"end":31134.2,"text":"治理的穩定還有"},{"start":31134.2,"end":31136.2,"text":"獨立運作跟行政中立"},{"start":31136.2,"end":31138.2,"text":"那依公共"},{"start":31138.2,"end":31140.2,"text":"電視法第13條"},{"start":31140.2,"end":31142.2,"text":"公視基金會設董事會"},{"start":31142.2,"end":31144.2,"text":"及監察"},{"start":31144.2,"end":31146.2,"text":"監察人會議"},{"start":31147.06,"end":31149.06,"text":"他呢這個"},{"start":31150.03,"end":31152.03,"text":"這個應該這些人"},{"start":31152.03,"end":31154.03,"text":"產生之後呢"},{"start":31154.03,"end":31156.03,"text":"應該由行政院來提名"},{"start":31156.03,"end":31158.03,"text":"然後提交審查委員會"},{"start":31158.03,"end":31160.03,"text":"基因全體委員會"},{"start":31160.03,"end":31162.03,"text":"三分之二以上"},{"start":31162.03,"end":31164.03,"text":"同意後並請"},{"start":31164.03,"end":31166.03,"text":"行政院長能夠來聘認"},{"start":31166.03,"end":31168.03,"text":"那在這裡"},{"start":31168.03,"end":31170.03,"text":"我們希望就是說"},{"start":31170.03,"end":31172.03,"text":"聘認了以後我們希望"},{"start":31172.03,"end":31174.03,"text":"文化部部長能夠帶著"},{"start":31174.03,"end":31176.03,"text":"這個名單來到立法院"},{"start":31176.03,"end":31178.03,"text":"來做一個溝通那因為"},{"start":31178.03,"end":31180.03,"text":"我們"},{"start":31180.03,"end":31182.03,"text":"要求行政部門能夠"},{"start":31182.03,"end":31184.03,"text":"提前來充分"},{"start":31184.03,"end":31186.03,"text":"的一個溝通明記"},{"start":31186.03,"end":31188.03,"text":"跨黨派跟社會多元的一個"},{"start":31188.03,"end":31190.03,"text":"共識那確保公共"},{"start":31190.03,"end":31192.03,"text":"媒體的一個治理"},{"start":31192.03,"end":31194.03,"text":"不被任何單一"},{"start":31194.03,"end":31196.03,"text":"政黨或是單一部會或是"},{"start":31196.03,"end":31198.03,"text":"單一政治力量的一個壟斷"},{"start":31198.03,"end":31200.03,"text":"所以呢在這裡呢"},{"start":31200.03,"end":31202.03,"text":"我呼籲李部長能夠率先"},{"start":31202.03,"end":31204.03,"text":"來建立這樣的一個制度"},{"start":31204.03,"end":31206.03,"text":"那未來呢不管是哪一個"},{"start":31206.03,"end":31208.03,"text":"政黨來執政的時候呢"},{"start":31208.03,"end":31210.03,"text":"這個制度建立以後呢"},{"start":31210.03,"end":31212.03,"text":"那以後呢就沒有在"},{"start":31212.03,"end":31214.03,"text":"這麼多的意見"},{"start":31214.03,"end":31216.03,"text":"我們就循著這個制度來走"},{"start":31216.03,"end":31218.03,"text":"這是"},{"start":31218.03,"end":31220.03,"text":"我的看法"},{"start":31220.03,"end":31222.03,"text":"這是123案"},{"start":31222.03,"end":31224.03,"text":"然後"},{"start":31231.06,"end":31233.06,"text":"然後132案"},{"start":31233.06,"end":31235.06,"text":"是針對央管國際傳播"},{"start":31235.06,"end":31237.06,"text":"任務的一個重要"},{"start":31237.06,"end":31239.06,"text":"但是國際傳播呢不能只靠"},{"start":31239.06,"end":31241.06,"text":"編預算必須來看到"},{"start":31241.06,"end":31243.06,"text":"塑狀還有平台"},{"start":31243.06,"end":31245.06,"text":"跟轉型的一個成果"},{"start":31245.06,"end":31247.06,"text":"所以我們希望呢文化部能夠"},{"start":31247.06,"end":31249.06,"text":"提出完整的一個數位的轉型"},{"start":31249.06,"end":31251.06,"text":"跟財務報告"},{"start":31251.06,"end":31253.06,"text":"那這個案子呢我是凍結300萬"},{"start":31253.06,"end":31255.06,"text":"那那個另外"},{"start":31255.06,"end":31257.06,"text":"134案呢是"},{"start":31257.06,"end":31259.06,"text":"國營中心保存的一個影視"},{"start":31259.06,"end":31261.06,"text":"記憶值得"},{"start":31261.06,"end":31263.06,"text":"是值得支持的"},{"start":31263.06,"end":31265.06,"text":"那這個國營中心它負責的是"},{"start":31265.06,"end":31267.06,"text":"視聽的一個等長"},{"start":31267.06,"end":31269.06,"text":"修復數位化推廣公共交易"},{"start":31269.06,"end":31271.06,"text":"的一個任務既有文化"},{"start":31271.06,"end":31273.06,"text":"保存的一個必要性"},{"start":31273.06,"end":31275.06,"text":"那"},{"start":31275.06,"end":31277.06,"text":"在這裡呢我們也是"},{"start":31277.06,"end":31279.06,"text":"支持的"},{"start":31279.06,"end":31281.06,"text":"那這個案呢我是凍"},{"start":31281.06,"end":31283.06,"text":"300萬那我們先"},{"start":31283.06,"end":31285.06,"text":"聽說明之後呢我們再來結議"},{"start":31285.06,"end":31287.06,"text":"以上的報告"},{"start":31288.64,"end":31290.64,"text":"好 回應委員"},{"start":31293.06,"end":31295.06,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":31295.41,"end":31297.41,"text":"好 這個部分我是三個案子"},{"start":31297.41,"end":31299.41,"text":"127、128跟131"},{"start":31299.41,"end":31301.41,"text":"那"},{"start":31301.41,"end":31303.41,"text":"在127"},{"start":31303.41,"end":31305.41,"text":"的部分"},{"start":31305.41,"end":31307.41,"text":"那還是支持"},{"start":31307.41,"end":31309.41,"text":"這個台語台製"},{"start":31309.41,"end":31311.41,"text":"的節目"},{"start":31311.41,"end":31313.41,"text":"那包含戲劇、綜藝"},{"start":31313.41,"end":31315.41,"text":"還有這個兒少跟藝文"},{"start":31315.41,"end":31317.41,"text":"那我想這個台語台其實也肩負了"},{"start":31317.41,"end":31319.41,"text":"非常重大的一個任務"},{"start":31319.41,"end":31321.41,"text":"那"},{"start":31321.82,"end":31323.82,"text":"王航部這邊其實也有來"},{"start":31323.82,"end":31325.82,"text":"跟我們做說明喔"},{"start":31325.82,"end":31327.82,"text":"那這個部分我改主決議沒有問題"},{"start":31327.82,"end":31329.82,"text":"那128的部分"},{"start":31329.82,"end":31331.82,"text":"我想小公事其實"},{"start":31331.82,"end":31333.82,"text":"我們都對它期待很多"},{"start":31333.82,"end":31335.82,"text":"期待很深"},{"start":31335.82,"end":31337.82,"text":"那我也從過去一直到現在"},{"start":31337.82,"end":31339.82,"text":"其實都很注意這個小公事的一個狀況"},{"start":31339.82,"end":31341.82,"text":"尤其是我們就是"},{"start":31342.25,"end":31344.25,"text":"自製的這個兒童節目"},{"start":31344.25,"end":31346.25,"text":"我們知道其實要投入的資源很多"},{"start":31346.25,"end":31348.25,"text":"那尤其是兒少相關的一個節目"},{"start":31348.25,"end":31350.25,"text":"在自製的整個所有的過程"},{"start":31350.25,"end":31352.25,"text":"不管目前還是幕後其實它比一般的節目"},{"start":31352.25,"end":31354.25,"text":"更難製作"},{"start":31354.25,"end":31356.25,"text":"那這個部分當然"},{"start":31356.25,"end":31358.25,"text":"有精進的一個空間"},{"start":31358.25,"end":31360.25,"text":"但我想這個小公事其實也"},{"start":31360.25,"end":31362.25,"text":"很用力的在做"},{"start":31362.25,"end":31364.25,"text":"那也很努力的在往前推進"},{"start":31364.25,"end":31366.25,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":31366.25,"end":31368.25,"text":"要給予一些鼓勵啦"},{"start":31368.25,"end":31370.25,"text":"所以這個部分我就不堅持凍結"},{"start":31370.25,"end":31372.25,"text":"那也改主決議"},{"start":31372.25,"end":31374.25,"text":"那在131的部分"},{"start":31374.25,"end":31376.25,"text":"有提到這個"},{"start":31376.25,"end":31378.25,"text":"台語影視人才"},{"start":31378.25,"end":31380.25,"text":"那這個部分其實"},{"start":31380.25,"end":31382.25,"text":"也有來跟我做一些說明"},{"start":31382.25,"end":31384.25,"text":"那我想呢之後就是這些人才"},{"start":31384.25,"end":31386.25,"text":"他們進入業界"},{"start":31386.87,"end":31388.87,"text":"的這個效果"},{"start":31388.87,"end":31390.87,"text":"或者是直接在業界從事"},{"start":31390.87,"end":31392.87,"text":"跟台語相關"},{"start":31392.87,"end":31394.87,"text":"不管是在節目的製作或者是"},{"start":31394.87,"end":31396.87,"text":"就是"},{"start":31396.87,"end":31398.87,"text":"產學的一些合作"},{"start":31398.87,"end":31400.87,"text":"那如果有後續更多的"},{"start":31400.87,"end":31402.87,"text":"一些人才的追蹤跟回饋的一些機制"},{"start":31402.87,"end":31404.87,"text":"我想這個部分"},{"start":31404.87,"end":31406.87,"text":"也請"},{"start":31406.87,"end":31408.87,"text":"文化部這邊也特別的"},{"start":31408.87,"end":31410.87,"text":"來做一下這個後續的"},{"start":31410.87,"end":31412.87,"text":"一些影視發展的一個量能"},{"start":31412.87,"end":31414.87,"text":"那這個部分也有跟我做說明"},{"start":31414.87,"end":31416.87,"text":"這個部分我可以改主決議"},{"start":31416.87,"end":31418.87,"text":"沒有問題"},{"start":31418.95,"end":31420.95,"text":"不用再經由什麼我同意"},{"start":31420.95,"end":31422.95,"text":"直接改主決議"},{"start":31422.95,"end":31424.95,"text":"然後有一些經驗的報告來"},{"start":31424.95,"end":31426.95,"text":"就可以了好以上"},{"start":31430.34,"end":31432.34,"text":"好"},{"start":31431.4,"end":31433.4,"text":"還有委員要提案嗎"},{"start":31433.36,"end":31435.36,"text":"那我們現在就一起來處理"},{"start":31445.93,"end":31447.93,"text":"不好意思要登記一下"},{"start":31447.93,"end":31449.93,"text":"等他寫一下"},{"start":31451.13,"end":31453.13,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":31457.2,"end":31459.2,"text":"現在要幹嘛"},{"start":31460.24,"end":31462.24,"text":"不用說明天"},{"start":31462.24,"end":31464.24,"text":"真的"},{"start":31465.2,"end":31467.2,"text":"現在怎樣"},{"start":31467.18,"end":31469.18,"text":"我不知道在幹嘛"},{"start":31469.18,"end":31471.18,"text":"現在在登記便當"},{"start":31471.95,"end":31473.95,"text":"好"},{"start":31472.98,"end":31474.98,"text":"我們"},{"start":31474.65,"end":31476.65,"text":"第119到134"},{"start":31476.65,"end":31478.65,"text":"改為主決議的有119"},{"start":31478.65,"end":31480.65,"text":"122 124 125 127 128"},{"start":31482.58,"end":31484.58,"text":"123還沒有做說明"},{"start":31486.04,"end":31488.04,"text":"沒有啊我知道"},{"start":31488.04,"end":31490.04,"text":"我先把它改成主決議的先念"},{"start":31490.04,"end":31492.04,"text":"我的沒有念你"},{"start":31492.04,"end":31494.04,"text":"119 122 124 125 127 128 131 133"},{"start":31494.04,"end":31496.04,"text":"那123的部分"},{"start":31496.04,"end":31498.04,"text":"麻煩請文化部來回覆一下"},{"start":31511.44,"end":31513.44,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":31521.84,"end":31523.84,"text":"好"},{"start":31524.21,"end":31526.21,"text":"好那個關於委員這邊"},{"start":31526.21,"end":31528.21,"text":"蔡委員這邊有提到的三個關注的案子"},{"start":31528.21,"end":31530.21,"text":"之前其實在會前"},{"start":31530.21,"end":31532.21,"text":"也有向委員的辦公室還有委員"},{"start":31532.21,"end":31534.21,"text":"做過說明"},{"start":31534.21,"end":31536.21,"text":"那關於公視的部分其實我們有在"},{"start":31536.21,"end":31538.21,"text":"持續的努力"},{"start":31538.21,"end":31540.21,"text":"那委員希望我們能夠多加溝通"},{"start":31540.21,"end":31542.21,"text":"跟多加協調我們也繼續會"},{"start":31542.21,"end":31544.21,"text":"持續努力的多加溝通協調"},{"start":31544.21,"end":31546.21,"text":"那另外剛剛委員有提到對於"},{"start":31546.21,"end":31548.21,"text":"央廣的數位轉型的部分我們在"},{"start":31548.21,"end":31550.21,"text":"會前的時候有接同團隊"},{"start":31550.21,"end":31552.21,"text":"去向委員這邊做一下說明"},{"start":31552.21,"end":31554.21,"text":"那委員其實很希望央廣能夠面對數位轉型"},{"start":31554.21,"end":31556.21,"text":"的一個狀態"},{"start":31556.21,"end":31558.21,"text":"能夠有一些新的作為跟做法"},{"start":31558.21,"end":31560.21,"text":"那能夠增加一些"},{"start":31560.21,"end":31562.21,"text":"自籌那這一項"},{"start":31562.21,"end":31564.21,"text":"央廣這邊他其實是肩負了一個"},{"start":31564.21,"end":31566.21,"text":"與一般商業媒體經營"},{"start":31566.21,"end":31568.21,"text":"定位不同他其實是有一定"},{"start":31568.21,"end":31570.21,"text":"的一個國際傳播任務那這一項"},{"start":31570.21,"end":31572.21,"text":"央廣其實近年來也已經持續"},{"start":31572.21,"end":31574.21,"text":"在針對因為其實國際廣播"},{"start":31574.21,"end":31576.21,"text":"形勢的發展他有一些轉變"},{"start":31576.21,"end":31578.21,"text":"確實對於央廣的"},{"start":31578.21,"end":31580.21,"text":"一些在廣播業務的拓展上造成"},{"start":31580.21,"end":31582.21,"text":"壓力所以其實央廣近年"},{"start":31582.21,"end":31584.21,"text":"其實也針對短促的情形他們"},{"start":31584.21,"end":31586.21,"text":"也有持續的在力行各項的節流"},{"start":31586.21,"end":31588.21,"text":"措施包括其實"},{"start":31588.21,"end":31590.21,"text":"他央廣其實有二十種語言"},{"start":31590.21,"end":31592.21,"text":"的這樣子的團隊優勢他"},{"start":31592.21,"end":31594.21,"text":"其實也會尋求國內民間企業的合作"},{"start":31594.21,"end":31596.21,"text":"來尋尋爭取跨平台的"},{"start":31596.21,"end":31598.21,"text":"授權收益那我們也會增加"},{"start":31598.21,"end":31600.21,"text":"委員的關注跟指示央廣"},{"start":31600.21,"end":31602.21,"text":"這邊內部一定會在持續的去"},{"start":31602.21,"end":31604.21,"text":"尋求各種可能開拓"},{"start":31604.21,"end":31606.21,"text":"裁員的方式還有在"},{"start":31606.21,"end":31608.21,"text":"整個廣播人才跟國際傳播"},{"start":31608.21,"end":31610.21,"text":"任務的落實上面再繼續努力"},{"start":31610.21,"end":31612.21,"text":"那另外委員同時"},{"start":31612.21,"end":31614.21,"text":"也詢問到我們的行政法人"},{"start":31614.21,"end":31616.21,"text":"也就是電影中心這一塊"},{"start":31616.21,"end":31618.21,"text":"那一樣是希望說"},{"start":31618.21,"end":31620.21,"text":"其實電影中心他其實有"},{"start":31620.21,"end":31622.21,"text":"對於影視廳文化的推動"},{"start":31622.21,"end":31624.21,"text":"的一個公共任務那希望影視廳"},{"start":31624.21,"end":31626.21,"text":"中心能夠更加的重視"},{"start":31626.21,"end":31628.21,"text":"自己的不管是在會員"},{"start":31628.21,"end":31630.21,"text":"人數的一個維持還有"},{"start":31630.21,"end":31632.21,"text":"影廳上作因為其實"},{"start":31632.21,"end":31634.21,"text":"影視廳中心是有一個"},{"start":31634.21,"end":31636.21,"text":"場館在的希望他能夠繼續"},{"start":31636.21,"end":31638.21,"text":"在影廳上作的部分做努力"},{"start":31638.21,"end":31640.21,"text":"那這一項除了會員說明"},{"start":31640.21,"end":31642.21,"text":"的部分我們也中心"},{"start":31642.21,"end":31644.21,"text":"這一塊未來其實他的會員"},{"start":31644.21,"end":31646.21,"text":"人數他其實是有一些"},{"start":31646.21,"end":31648.21,"text":"邊際效應的狀況啦但是其實在"},{"start":31648.21,"end":31650.21,"text":"過去到現在他也持續增加"},{"start":31650.21,"end":31652.21,"text":"到了三千人以上"},{"start":31652.21,"end":31654.21,"text":"那也會持續的在持續"},{"start":31654.21,"end":31656.21,"text":"成長那其實會員還是要"},{"start":31656.21,"end":31658.21,"text":"看黏著度他其實目前"},{"start":31658.21,"end":31660.21,"text":"的基本會員黏著度其實也是"},{"start":31660.21,"end":31662.21,"text":"蠻這幾年也都維持"},{"start":31662.21,"end":31664.21,"text":"的蠻好的就是基本會員943"},{"start":31664.21,"end":31666.21,"text":"人進屆會員200"},{"start":31666.21,"end":31668.21,"text":"2420人"},{"start":31668.21,"end":31670.21,"text":"其實總共3000多人他大概"},{"start":31670.21,"end":31672.21,"text":"這幾年能夠儘量的去"},{"start":31672.21,"end":31674.21,"text":"維持這個黏著度讓這個會員"},{"start":31674.21,"end":31676.21,"text":"人數不要往下掉"},{"start":31676.21,"end":31678.21,"text":"那其他的相關的工作包括"},{"start":31678.21,"end":31680.21,"text":"權力盤點還有電影"},{"start":31680.21,"end":31682.21,"text":"說話的工作還有他的"},{"start":31682.21,"end":31684.21,"text":"場館營運上作率的部分因為"},{"start":31684.21,"end":31686.21,"text":"影星藝中心他為處"},{"start":31686.21,"end":31688.21,"text":"新莊那其實他的"},{"start":31688.21,"end":31690.21,"text":"電影其實主要會是以國片或者是"},{"start":31690.21,"end":31692.21,"text":"藝術片的為主所以這一項他們"},{"start":31692.21,"end":31694.21,"text":"會持續在努力增加"},{"start":31694.21,"end":31696.21,"text":"他的放映內容來累積"},{"start":31696.21,"end":31698.21,"text":"常態的觀眾那謝謝委員"},{"start":31698.21,"end":31700.21,"text":"的一個支持我們會持續的"},{"start":31700.21,"end":31702.21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40.92,"text":"已經提了"},{"start":32140.92,"end":32142.92,"text":"所以五月份的時候五月五號"},{"start":32142.92,"end":32144.92,"text":"文化部再一次行文"},{"start":32144.92,"end":32146.92,"text":"給立法院"},{"start":32146.99,"end":32148.99,"text":"趕快立法院各黨派"},{"start":32150.16,"end":32152.16,"text":"組成這個審查委員會"},{"start":32152.16,"end":32154.16,"text":"現在是卡在這裡"},{"start":32153.71,"end":32155.71,"text":"所以他們其實是受害者"},{"start":32156.58,"end":32158.58,"text":"公視的新任董監事"},{"start":32158.58,"end":32160.58,"text":"會沒有辦法組成因為他們沒有辦法"},{"start":32160.58,"end":32162.58,"text":"有審查委員會組成他們就沒有辦法"},{"start":32162.58,"end":32164.58,"text":"審查他的董監事名單"},{"start":32164.86,"end":32166.86,"text":"所以我們立法院是"},{"start":32166.86,"end":32168.86,"text":"造成延宕的原因"},{"start":32168.86,"end":32170.86,"text":"怎麼現在反過來"},{"start":32170.86,"end":32172.86,"text":"要來凍結"},{"start":32172.86,"end":32174.86,"text":"刪減公視基金會"},{"start":32174.86,"end":32176.86,"text":"的預算"},{"start":32178.04,"end":32180.04,"text":"我可以把這一份文給村長委員看"},{"start":32180.04,"end":32182.04,"text":"這個是"},{"start":32182.04,"end":32184.04,"text":"現在要"},{"start":32184.04,"end":32186.04,"text":"問題是立法院要組成"},{"start":32186.04,"end":32188.04,"text":"所以我是很懇切的跟村長委員報告"},{"start":32188.04,"end":32190.04,"text":"我這個文可以讓你看"},{"start":32190.04,"end":32192.04,"text":"是因為我們台台的審查會沒有組成"},{"start":32192.04,"end":32194.04,"text":"以至於他們沒有"},{"start":32194.04,"end":32196.04,"text":"把他們已經送出來的名單沒有辦法"},{"start":32196.04,"end":32198.04,"text":"審查所以剛剛我們跟"},{"start":32198.04,"end":32200.04,"text":"那個羅志強委員也"},{"start":32200.04,"end":32202.04,"text":"也做了溝通"},{"start":32202.05,"end":32204.05,"text":"羅志強委員這個部分是提出"},{"start":32204.05,"end":32206.05,"text":"一千萬的凍結"},{"start":32206.05,"end":32208.05,"text":"那我把具體的狀況"},{"start":32208.05,"end":32210.05,"text":"跟村手姐報告"},{"start":32210.32,"end":32212.32,"text":"現在的難題是我們立法院沒有組成"},{"start":32212.32,"end":32214.32,"text":"是我們在凍結"},{"start":32214.32,"end":32216.32,"text":"我們在凍結人士"},{"start":32216.32,"end":32218.32,"text":"現在在說我們要凍結"},{"start":32218.32,"end":32220.32,"text":"我們這個是立法院要組成"},{"start":32220.32,"end":32222.32,"text":"審查會才能夠去審他們"},{"start":32222.32,"end":32224.32,"text":"已經提出來的名單"},{"start":32224.32,"end":32226.32,"text":"他們已經提出來啦他們在等著這個委員會"},{"start":32226.32,"end":32228.32,"text":"的組成啦"},{"start":32228.32,"end":32230.32,"text":"不好意思吳思耀委員"},{"start":32230.32,"end":32232.32,"text":"點名我嘛"},{"start":32232.32,"end":32234.32,"text":"我是說剛剛你已經協調好"},{"start":32234.32,"end":32236.32,"text":"那個鄭重委員"},{"start":32236.32,"end":32238.32,"text":"你要跟羅志強委員"},{"start":32238.32,"end":32240.32,"text":"要求證一下他的訴求啦"},{"start":32240.32,"end":32242.32,"text":"就是吳思耀委員"},{"start":32242.32,"end":32244.32,"text":"你要交委員"},{"start":32245.12,"end":32247.12,"text":"你要提供資訊給他你私下講"},{"start":32247.12,"end":32249.12,"text":"不要拿麥克風講啦"},{"start":32249.12,"end":32251.12,"text":"就是讓其他委員發言啦"},{"start":32251.12,"end":32253.12,"text":"你要私底下提供資料"},{"start":32253.12,"end":32255.12,"text":"我跟你講我的原則很"},{"start":32255.12,"end":32257.12,"text":"簡單我跟文化"},{"start":32257.12,"end":32259.12,"text":"不知鏡的協調"},{"start":32259.12,"end":32261.12,"text":"那是我"},{"start":32260.32,"end":32262.32,"text":"我並不要干涉影響到其他委員的提案"},{"start":32262.32,"end":32264.32,"text":"我並不要干涉影響到其他委員的提案"},{"start":32264.32,"end":32266.32,"text":"我並不要干涉影響到其他委員的提案"},{"start":32266.32,"end":32268.32,"text":"所以不要拿我跟文化部的協調"},{"start":32268.32,"end":32270.32,"text":"然後作為去說服其他委員的一個說法"},{"start":32270.32,"end":32272.32,"text":"然後作為去說服其他委員的一個說法"},{"start":32272.32,"end":32274.32,"text":"那這一點抱歉我不接受以上"},{"start":32280.52,"end":32282.52,"text":"好 村長委員"},{"start":32282.52,"end":32284.52,"text":"那我們繼續維持"},{"start":32284.52,"end":32286.52,"text":"圓案嗎 是 1000億"},{"start":32286.52,"end":32288.52,"text":"1000億"},{"start":32288.52,"end":32290.52,"text":"1億 1億 1億"},{"start":32290.52,"end":32292.52,"text":"沒事沒事"},{"start":32292.52,"end":32294.52,"text":"我們委員他有時候"},{"start":32294.52,"end":32296.52,"text":"要準備的事情比較多"},{"start":32296.52,"end":32298.52,"text":"沒事沒事"},{"start":32298.52,"end":32300.52,"text":"故意讓你們嚇一跳"},{"start":32300.52,"end":32302.52,"text":"你讓我們的精神都變好了"},{"start":32302.52,"end":32304.52,"text":"謝謝你 我們都很認真"},{"start":32304.52,"end":32306.52,"text":"在傾聽你的聲音"},{"start":32306.52,"end":32308.52,"text":"好 那這一幕我們來處理囉"},{"start":32310.34,"end":32312.34,"text":"第五幕 影視級流行音樂發展業務"},{"start":32312.34,"end":32314.34,"text":"第五幕 影視級流行音樂發展業務"},{"start":32314.34,"end":32316.34,"text":"第二節 我們從119到134"},{"start":32316.34,"end":32318.34,"text":"第二節 我們從119到134"},{"start":32318.34,"end":32320.34,"text":"那剛剛已經主決議的宣告了"},{"start":32320.34,"end":32322.34,"text":"我就不講了"},{"start":32322.34,"end":32324.34,"text":"那第五幕 合併"},{"start":32324.34,"end":32326.34,"text":"現在有兩個案子 一個是"},{"start":32326.34,"end":32328.34,"text":"動1000萬 一個是動1億"},{"start":32328.34,"end":32330.34,"text":"我們大家商量一下好嗎"},{"start":32330.34,"end":32332.34,"text":"還有我的100 還有您的100"},{"start":32332.34,"end":32334.34,"text":"我的100因為我們要整體放在這一幕"},{"start":32334.34,"end":32336.34,"text":"共同處理"},{"start":32336.34,"end":32338.34,"text":"那等一下"},{"start":32338.34,"end":32340.34,"text":"我們先處理簡略的"},{"start":32340.34,"end":32342.34,"text":"簡略的是第一節"},{"start":32342.34,"end":32344.34,"text":"05 發展國際數位傳播"},{"start":32344.34,"end":32346.34,"text":"1000萬 簡略"},{"start":32347.85,"end":32349.85,"text":"好 第二 我們在處理動節的時候呢"},{"start":32349.85,"end":32351.85,"text":"那目前有確定的是"},{"start":32351.85,"end":32353.85,"text":"其中包含"},{"start":32353.85,"end":32355.85,"text":"第一節05 發展國際數位傳播"},{"start":32355.85,"end":32357.85,"text":"第一節05 發展國際數位傳播"},{"start":32357.85,"end":32359.85,"text":"1000萬 再加我的100萬"},{"start":32359.85,"end":32361.85,"text":"1000 100萬"},{"start":32361.85,"end":32363.85,"text":"那剛剛有委員提出1億"},{"start":32363.85,"end":32365.85,"text":"123案"},{"start":32365.85,"end":32367.85,"text":"我們尊重"},{"start":32367.85,"end":32369.85,"text":"那是不是就"},{"start":32369.71,"end":32371.71,"text":"一起加列在這裡面"},{"start":32374.8,"end":32376.8,"text":"那我個人意見就是"},{"start":32376.8,"end":32378.8,"text":"我支持前面的1000加100"},{"start":32378.8,"end":32380.8,"text":"你們花了很多時間討論"},{"start":32380.8,"end":32382.8,"text":"那再請村委員好好思索一下"},{"start":32382.8,"end":32384.8,"text":"因為你剛剛提的"},{"start":32384.8,"end":32386.8,"text":"要動節的這個理由"},{"start":32388.37,"end":32390.37,"text":"其實我們立法院是阻卻人家行使人士同意權"},{"start":32390.37,"end":32392.37,"text":"目前是卡在這裡啦"},{"start":32392.37,"end":32394.37,"text":"要去動節公視基金會的預算"},{"start":32394.37,"end":32396.37,"text":"我覺得這說不過去啦"},{"start":32398.14,"end":32400.14,"text":"請村委員可以理解"},{"start":32402.28,"end":32404.28,"text":"那我是說"},{"start":32404.28,"end":32406.28,"text":"如果文化部能夠"},{"start":32406.28,"end":32408.28,"text":"就是到立法院"},{"start":32408.28,"end":32410.28,"text":"來做一個協商"},{"start":32410.28,"end":32412.28,"text":"然後我們再從各黨"},{"start":32412.28,"end":32414.28,"text":"再連線出那個審查委員會"},{"start":32414.28,"end":32416.28,"text":"來"},{"start":32416.28,"end":32418.28,"text":"那這樣子就"},{"start":32418.28,"end":32420.28,"text":"讓他順利的產生"},{"start":32420.28,"end":32422.28,"text":"我的前提是希望這個公視"},{"start":32422.28,"end":32424.28,"text":"能夠順利產生動監視"},{"start":32424.28,"end":32426.28,"text":"要跟委員報告"},{"start":32426.28,"end":32428.28,"text":"這個我們現在的程序"},{"start":32428.28,"end":32430.28,"text":"是依法提出的程序"},{"start":32430.28,"end":32432.28,"text":"我們不能介入媒體"},{"start":32432.28,"end":32434.28,"text":"公媒的董事選舉的"},{"start":32434.28,"end":32436.28,"text":"所以我們不能帶著大家"},{"start":32436.28,"end":32438.28,"text":"去來立法院拜會"},{"start":32438.28,"end":32440.28,"text":"因為那就是政治介入"},{"start":32440.28,"end":32442.28,"text":"因為黨政是退出"},{"start":32442.28,"end":32444.28,"text":"媒體這個是法律所明定的"},{"start":32444.28,"end":32446.28,"text":"所以我們是依照這個程序"},{"start":32446.28,"end":32448.28,"text":"來執行"},{"start":32448.28,"end":32450.28,"text":"所以沒有辦法執行這樣程序要請委員"},{"start":32450.28,"end":32452.28,"text":"見諒因為這個就是"},{"start":32452.28,"end":32454.28,"text":"依法律執行的結果"},{"start":32454.28,"end":32456.28,"text":"那這樣子的話明天中選會為什麼"},{"start":32456.28,"end":32458.28,"text":"可以要投票啊"},{"start":32458.28,"end":32460.28,"text":"中選會是人事同意權"},{"start":32460.28,"end":32462.28,"text":"是立法院行使的"},{"start":32462.28,"end":32464.28,"text":"不要這樣子說"},{"start":32464.28,"end":32466.28,"text":"人家沒空去"},{"start":32466.28,"end":32468.28,"text":"委員家有幾件通告"},{"start":32468.28,"end":32470.28,"text":"好啦那我們休息"},{"start":32470.28,"end":32472.28,"text":"休息一下喔"},{"start":32472.28,"end":32474.28,"text":"休息五分鐘"},{"start":32474.28,"end":32476.28,"text":"人事同意權是立法委員"},{"start":32476.28,"end":32478.28,"text":"直接行使"},{"start":32478.28,"end":32480.28,"text":"公共電視基金會的董監視"},{"start":32480.28,"end":32482.28,"text":"是透過委員會來行使"},{"start":32482.28,"end":32484.28,"text":"立法院不能夠政治"},{"start":32484.28,"end":32486.28,"text":"介入"},{"start":32855.47,"end":32857.47,"text":"好"},{"start":32856.64,"end":32858.64,"text":"現在開會"},{"start":32858.9,"end":32860.9,"text":"好我們繼續處理這一幕"},{"start":32860.9,"end":32862.9,"text":"那剛剛有委員"},{"start":32862.9,"end":32864.9,"text":"有提議"},{"start":32865.56,"end":32867.56,"text":"一千"},{"start":32867.23,"end":32869.23,"text":"掰掰"},{"start":32868.99,"end":32870.99,"text":"ㄟㄟ"},{"start":32870.47,"end":32872.47,"text":"那我們繼續來處理"},{"start":32883.18,"end":32885.18,"text":"那我們是不是就持續的推進了"},{"start":32885.88,"end":32887.88,"text":"有委員提議"},{"start":32890.77,"end":32892.77,"text":"我支持那個原本的"},{"start":32892.77,"end":32894.77,"text":"一千加一百的這個提案"},{"start":32895.43,"end":32897.43,"text":"我支持這是我的意見"},{"start":32897.43,"end":32899.43,"text":"我支持一千加一百的這個提案"},{"start":32900.78,"end":32902.78,"text":"好我複裔"},{"start":32902.78,"end":32904.78,"text":"謝謝主席我複裔這個一千加一百"},{"start":32904.78,"end":32906.78,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":32906.78,"end":32908.78,"text":"我想說你怎麼一直笑得很開心"},{"start":32908.78,"end":32910.78,"text":"你現在"},{"start":32910.78,"end":32912.78,"text":"你現在感冒好了就身體比較健康"},{"start":32912.78,"end":32914.78,"text":"我感冒還沒好謝謝"},{"start":32914.78,"end":32916.78,"text":"謝謝主席關心"},{"start":32916.78,"end":32918.78,"text":"你今天看起來很活力"},{"start":32918.78,"end":32920.78,"text":"我也複裔一下就是一千加一百"},{"start":32920.78,"end":32922.78,"text":"好那春秋委員"},{"start":32927.54,"end":32929.54,"text":"那我的就是凍結一億"},{"start":32929.54,"end":32931.54,"text":"好繼續凍結"},{"start":32931.54,"end":32933.54,"text":"好來羅志祥委員"},{"start":32936.08,"end":32938.08,"text":"我覺得關於公視"},{"start":32938.08,"end":32940.08,"text":"董監事言論的問題"},{"start":32940.08,"end":32942.08,"text":"大概在這邊已經辯論"},{"start":32942.08,"end":32944.08,"text":"一百輪也差不多了"},{"start":32944.08,"end":32946.08,"text":"那我也不想要再重複"},{"start":32946.08,"end":32948.08,"text":"可是今天既然蔡孫中委員"},{"start":32948.08,"end":32950.08,"text":"有她的一個提案的堅持的話"},{"start":32950.08,"end":32952.08,"text":"我表示尊重"},{"start":32952.08,"end":32954.08,"text":"那沒有共識"},{"start":32954.08,"end":32956.08,"text":"就保留鬆懈上也是一個選項"},{"start":32956.08,"end":32958.08,"text":"以上"},{"start":32958.97,"end":32960.97,"text":"好那是不是"},{"start":32960.97,"end":32962.97,"text":"我們就照剛剛委員尊重委員的提案"},{"start":32962.97,"end":32964.97,"text":"我們就"},{"start":32964.97,"end":32966.97,"text":"一億一千"},{"start":32966.97,"end":32968.97,"text":"一百萬的凍結"},{"start":32969.43,"end":32971.43,"text":"有要嗎"},{"start":32971.82,"end":32973.82,"text":"那既然那個羅委員這樣講"},{"start":32973.82,"end":32975.82,"text":"不然就是保留鬆懈上吧"},{"start":32975.82,"end":32977.82,"text":"好"},{"start":32977.82,"end":32979.82,"text":"那所以我們是不是就"},{"start":32979.82,"end":32981.82,"text":"但是是哪一案"},{"start":32981.82,"end":32983.82,"text":"我們是不是這一幕能處理的還是處理掉"},{"start":32983.82,"end":32985.82,"text":"就是說一千加一百"},{"start":32985.82,"end":32987.82,"text":"可以先整幕"},{"start":32987.82,"end":32989.82,"text":"沒關係我知道了"},{"start":32989.82,"end":32991.82,"text":"他的案子是跟志祥委員是同一案嗎"},{"start":32991.82,"end":32993.82,"text":"那你覺得可以再說嗎"},{"start":32993.82,"end":32995.82,"text":"好不好"},{"start":32995.82,"end":32997.82,"text":"這一幕就是凍結"},{"start":32997.98,"end":32999.98,"text":"一千一百萬"},{"start":33000.56,"end":33002.56,"text":"那他單項那一項"},{"start":33002.56,"end":33004.56,"text":"保留鬆懈上"},{"start":33006.47,"end":33008.47,"text":"那可能有一點點再釐清一下"},{"start":33008.47,"end":33010.47,"text":"主席的一百是一百"},{"start":33010.47,"end":33012.47,"text":"那個案很清楚嘛對不對"},{"start":33012.47,"end":33014.47,"text":"那志祥委員"},{"start":33014.47,"end":33016.47,"text":"志祥委員的"},{"start":33016.47,"end":33018.47,"text":"那這樣子因為志祥委員"},{"start":33018.47,"end":33020.47,"text":"跟尊重委員是同一個案子"},{"start":33020.47,"end":33022.47,"text":"那還是說這一幕"},{"start":33022.47,"end":33024.47,"text":"就是說第九十案"},{"start":33024.47,"end":33026.47,"text":"第一百一十案"},{"start":33026.47,"end":33028.47,"text":"然後尊重委員是哪一案"},{"start":33028.47,"end":33030.47,"text":"第一二三案"},{"start":33030.47,"end":33032.47,"text":"三案保留鬆懈上"},{"start":33032.47,"end":33034.47,"text":"其他就是照列"},{"start":33034.47,"end":33036.47,"text":"好"},{"start":33035.61,"end":33037.61,"text":"對啊對啊"},{"start":33037.61,"end":33039.61,"text":"等一下等一下我討論一下"},{"start":33039.61,"end":33041.61,"text":"因為你很聰明我們要了解一下"},{"start":33041.61,"end":33043.61,"text":"你的用意是什麼"},{"start":33043.61,"end":33045.61,"text":"因為其他的幕"},{"start":33045.61,"end":33047.61,"text":"其他案子不要受影響"},{"start":33046.92,"end":33048.92,"text":"就是主席要動一百萬的九十案"},{"start":33048.92,"end":33050.92,"text":"羅志祥委員"},{"start":33050.92,"end":33052.92,"text":"要動一千萬的一百一十案"},{"start":33052.92,"end":33054.92,"text":"跟蔡宣仇委員"},{"start":33054.92,"end":33056.92,"text":"要動一億的一百二十三案"},{"start":33056.92,"end":33058.92,"text":"三案保留"},{"start":33058.92,"end":33060.92,"text":"鬆懈上就這三案"},{"start":33060.92,"end":33062.92,"text":"那其他的"},{"start":33063,"end":33065,"text":"這一幕的其他部分"},{"start":33065,"end":33067,"text":"就大家都沒有意見改主決議的改主決議了嘛"},{"start":33067,"end":33069,"text":"就應當是這樣啊"},{"start":33069,"end":33071,"text":"這是這不是誰聰明不聰明"},{"start":33071,"end":33073,"text":"這就是符合真實"},{"start":33074.15,"end":33076.15,"text":"我比較憨慢我了解一下"},{"start":33076.15,"end":33078.15,"text":"你等一下"},{"start":33084.9,"end":33086.9,"text":"好"},{"start":33086.2,"end":33088.2,"text":"那你要稍微再改一下"},{"start":33088.7,"end":33090.7,"text":"好來剛剛宣告的主決議"},{"start":33090.7,"end":33092.7,"text":"我就不再宣告了"},{"start":33092.7,"end":33094.7,"text":"那現在九十一二三"},{"start":33095.45,"end":33097.45,"text":"一"},{"start":33096.29,"end":33098.29,"text":"百一"},{"start":33098.29,"end":33100.29,"text":"三案保留送協商"},{"start":33100.28,"end":33102.28,"text":"除以上個案"},{"start":33102.54,"end":33104.54,"text":"預算照列"},{"start":33106.33,"end":33108.33,"text":"主席你的一百"},{"start":33108.33,"end":33110.33,"text":"要不然就動了就做成決議了"},{"start":33110.33,"end":33112.33,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":33112.33,"end":33114.33,"text":"因為我現在看到您的標的是四十五億"},{"start":33114.33,"end":33116.33,"text":"就是全部"},{"start":33116.33,"end":33118.33,"text":"我現在看到您提案的細項"},{"start":33118.33,"end":33120.33,"text":"是你把四十五億都保留"},{"start":33120.33,"end":33122.33,"text":"對啊因為我想說"},{"start":33122.33,"end":33124.33,"text":"沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":33124.33,"end":33126.33,"text":"我剛剛很愚蠢"},{"start":33126.33,"end":33128.33,"text":"我沒有看到您的大魔王"},{"start":33128.33,"end":33130.33,"text":"我完全不覺得你很愚蠢"},{"start":33130.33,"end":33132.33,"text":"所以說再釐清一下"},{"start":33132.02,"end":33134.02,"text":"因為主席您的標的"},{"start":33134.02,"end":33136.02,"text":"是動整個四十五億"},{"start":33136.02,"end":33138.02,"text":"我們剛剛討論了這麼久"},{"start":33138.02,"end":33140.02,"text":"沒有沒有不是我提案我們現在處理"},{"start":33140.02,"end":33142.02,"text":"不要一直推給別人我們再一起"},{"start":33142.02,"end":33144.02,"text":"做成一個共同的決議"},{"start":33144.02,"end":33146.02,"text":"因為主席您的"},{"start":33146.02,"end":33148.02,"text":"標的是整目的預算"},{"start":33148.02,"end":33150.02,"text":"四十五億"},{"start":33151.76,"end":33153.76,"text":"那我們同意那你這一億就先動一百"},{"start":33153.76,"end":33155.76,"text":"先讓他通過"},{"start":33156.3,"end":33158.3,"text":"然後另外把羅志祥委員的"},{"start":33158.3,"end":33160.3,"text":"一百一十案跟那個蔡選手"},{"start":33160.3,"end":33162.3,"text":"委員的一百二三案"},{"start":33162.3,"end":33164.3,"text":"然後志祥委員這邊的是"},{"start":33164.3,"end":33166.3,"text":"十億為本的嘛"},{"start":33166.3,"end":33168.3,"text":"村長委員的那一個是"},{"start":33168.3,"end":33170.3,"text":"凍結一億嘛這樣有沒有錯"},{"start":33170.3,"end":33172.3,"text":"你們文化部的同仁看一下"},{"start":33172.3,"end":33174.3,"text":"是這樣嘛"},{"start":33174.29,"end":33176.29,"text":"就是零一嘛OK"},{"start":33176.29,"end":33178.29,"text":"那您的大象要凍結一百萬"},{"start":33178.29,"end":33180.29,"text":"就先先先先可以通過啊"},{"start":33181.87,"end":33183.87,"text":"我們要理因為不能處理錯處理錯"},{"start":33183.87,"end":33185.87,"text":"會差天跟地我們剛剛的"},{"start":33185.87,"end":33187.87,"text":"討論就整組還了了"},{"start":33190.12,"end":33192.12,"text":"那次長你有沒有再清楚說明一下"},{"start":33192.12,"end":33194.12,"text":"顯然那個主席很懷疑我說的"},{"start":33194.12,"end":33196.12,"text":"來次長你說一下他可能比較會聽"},{"start":33196.12,"end":33198.12,"text":"就是依照剛剛的討論應該是"},{"start":33198.12,"end":33200.12,"text":"主席的九十案"},{"start":33200.12,"end":33202.12,"text":"凍一百"},{"start":33202.12,"end":33204.12,"text":"然後有正義的"},{"start":33204.12,"end":33206.12,"text":"一百一"},{"start":33206.12,"end":33208.12,"text":"難得我們兩個人都沒和同樣想法"},{"start":33208.12,"end":33210.12,"text":"我看清楚我及早發現"},{"start":33210.12,"end":33212.12,"text":"這兩案是保留協商"},{"start":33212.12,"end":33214.12,"text":"對"},{"start":33214.67,"end":33216.67,"text":"好"},{"start":33215.5,"end":33217.5,"text":"請主席才是我想這樣才是剛剛"},{"start":33217.5,"end":33219.5,"text":"符合大家的意見"},{"start":33223.51,"end":33225.51,"text":"好保留送協商"},{"start":33225.51,"end":33227.51,"text":"一百一一二三"},{"start":33228.56,"end":33230.56,"text":"本幕合併"},{"start":33230.56,"end":33232.56,"text":"簡列剛剛已經宣告完了"},{"start":33232.56,"end":33234.56,"text":"那"},{"start":33234.56,"end":33236.56,"text":"那要還有簡列嗎就不要啦因為你不是要協商"},{"start":33238.15,"end":33240.15,"text":"對啊"},{"start":33240.83,"end":33242.83,"text":"除以上個案"},{"start":33242.72,"end":33244.72,"text":"這個"},{"start":33245.5,"end":33247.5,"text":"我們凍結"},{"start":33247.5,"end":33249.5,"text":"合併凍結一百萬"},{"start":33249.35,"end":33251.35,"text":"對了"},{"start":33250.57,"end":33252.57,"text":"就是這樣啊"},{"start":33252.57,"end":33254.57,"text":"你不簡列了啊"},{"start":33254.57,"end":33256.57,"text":"他那案有簡列的你要送保留協商啊"},{"start":33256.99,"end":33258.99,"text":"因為要送協商所以就沒有簡列的問題"},{"start":33258.99,"end":33260.99,"text":"對對對主席非常的聰明"},{"start":33260.99,"end":33262.99,"text":"很好啊不然我們要再簡列"},{"start":33262.99,"end":33264.99,"text":"又要再送協商嗎"},{"start":33264.99,"end":33266.99,"text":"沒有意見"},{"start":33266.99,"end":33268.99,"text":"你是一二一還是一一零你是一一零吧"},{"start":33275.46,"end":33277.46,"text":"啊"},{"start":33276.6,"end":33278.6,"text":"好啦一二一也一起送協商啦"},{"start":33286.35,"end":33288.35,"text":"所以你現在一一零不用送協商了"},{"start":33291.95,"end":33293.95,"text":"好了好了好了"},{"start":33294.16,"end":33296.16,"text":"好重新宣告"},{"start":33297.18,"end":33299.18,"text":"保留送協商的有一二一"},{"start":33299.18,"end":33301.18,"text":"一二三"},{"start":33301.18,"end":33303.18,"text":"除以上個案"},{"start":33303.18,"end":33305.18,"text":"我們簡列第一節零五"},{"start":33305.18,"end":33307.18,"text":"發展國際數位傳播"},{"start":33307.18,"end":33309.18,"text":"一千萬"},{"start":33309.18,"end":33311.18,"text":"然後凍結"},{"start":33311.63,"end":33313.63,"text":"一千一百萬"},{"start":33313.63,"end":33315.63,"text":"其中包含第一節零五"},{"start":33315.63,"end":33317.63,"text":"發展國際數位傳播一千萬"},{"start":33317.63,"end":33319.63,"text":"提出書面報告"},{"start":33319.63,"end":33321.63,"text":"經委員同意"},{"start":33321.63,"end":33323.63,"text":"使得凍結"},{"start":33328.42,"end":33330.42,"text":"對對對"},{"start":33330.34,"end":33332.34,"text":"接著處理第六幕"},{"start":33332.34,"end":33334.34,"text":"人文及出版業務提案"},{"start":33334.34,"end":33336.34,"text":"案號是一三五到一五三"},{"start":33336.34,"end":33338.34,"text":"只有十九案"},{"start":33338.34,"end":33340.34,"text":"所以請問是否就不要分級我們整幕一併處理"},{"start":33340.34,"end":33342.34,"text":"有個意見"},{"start":33342.34,"end":33344.34,"text":"解決剛剛一直都沒解決的"},{"start":33344.34,"end":33346.34,"text":"羅志祥委員算程序發言"},{"start":33346.34,"end":33348.34,"text":"來來"},{"start":33348.34,"end":33350.34,"text":"剛剛一直在講說到底這個"},{"start":33350.34,"end":33352.34,"text":"是不是這個書面"},{"start":33352.34,"end":33354.34,"text":"報告要經同意後才能"},{"start":33354.34,"end":33356.34,"text":"凍結案"},{"start":33356.34,"end":33358.34,"text":"那我的建議是說因為主席前面"},{"start":33358.34,"end":33360.34,"text":"已經宣告了就照主席的宣告"},{"start":33360.34,"end":33362.34,"text":"那後面就照"},{"start":33362.34,"end":33364.34,"text":"那個吳思耀委員的建議"},{"start":33364.34,"end":33366.34,"text":"就是說書面報告"},{"start":33366.34,"end":33368.34,"text":"那個提出後就可以凍結"},{"start":33368.34,"end":33370.34,"text":"那前面已經宣告就不要再把宣告改了"},{"start":33370.34,"end":33372.34,"text":"我呼籲羅志祥委員"},{"start":33372.34,"end":33374.34,"text":"同意謝謝"},{"start":33374.34,"end":33376.34,"text":"同意謝謝"},{"start":33378.57,"end":33380.57,"text":"好謝謝羅志祥委員"},{"start":33380.57,"end":33382.57,"text":"感謝協商喔"},{"start":33382.57,"end":33384.57,"text":"那也拜託我們現場的所有委員"},{"start":33384.57,"end":33386.57,"text":"在對調"},{"start":33386.57,"end":33388.57,"text":"位置之前我們等待一下"},{"start":33388.57,"end":33390.57,"text":"拜託大家都可以協商啦"},{"start":33390.57,"end":33392.57,"text":"但是也給我們一個機會"},{"start":33392.57,"end":33394.57,"text":"大家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4996.3,"text":"就是盡量鼓勵我們好不好"},{"start":34996.3,"end":34997.3,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":35002.56,"end":35003.56,"text":"好"},{"start":35003.56,"end":35004.56,"text":"委員好"},{"start":35004.56,"end":35007.56,"text":"這邊國漫館來補充一下喔"},{"start":35007.56,"end":35009.56,"text":"有關剛才那個委員有提到"},{"start":35009.56,"end":35013.56,"text":"關於目前國漫館的展覽的部分喔"},{"start":35013.56,"end":35014.56,"text":"那去年的部分"},{"start":35014.56,"end":35017.56,"text":"其實我們也很積極地辦了九檔"},{"start":35017.56,"end":35019.56,"text":"跟台灣漫畫相關的展覽"},{"start":35019.56,"end":35022.56,"text":"而且還有一檔是跟日本合作的"},{"start":35022.56,"end":35023.56,"text":"國際交流展覽"},{"start":35023.56,"end":35024.56,"text":"那今年的部分"},{"start":35024.56,"end":35027.56,"text":"其實我們也是回應到時事啦"},{"start":35027.56,"end":35030.56,"text":"就是也辦理了一個棒球的"},{"start":35030.56,"end":35031.56,"text":"一個漫畫的特展"},{"start":35031.56,"end":35035.56,"text":"那還有一個星期漫畫的一個特展喔"},{"start":35035.56,"end":35038.56,"text":"那後續也一直在積極地在規劃"},{"start":35038.56,"end":35044.56,"text":"所有跟現在相關的這個展覽的一個內容喔"},{"start":35044.56,"end":35047.56,"text":"那目前也在規劃跟民俗有關"},{"start":35047.56,"end":35049.56,"text":"跟女性議題有關的一些展覽"},{"start":35049.56,"end":35051.56,"text":"也都在籌備當中"},{"start":35051.56,"end":35053.56,"text":"那有關於典藏的部分喔"},{"start":35053.56,"end":35057.56,"text":"就是目前我們從籌備一開始到現在"},{"start":35057.56,"end":35059.56,"text":"已經有五千多件的藏品喔"},{"start":35059.56,"end":35061.56,"text":"那準藏品也有六千多件"},{"start":35061.56,"end":35065.56,"text":"那可是因為我們之前的這個典藏政策"},{"start":35065.56,"end":35067.56,"text":"可能重新再做檢討"},{"start":35067.56,"end":35070.56,"text":"所以我們現在也在六月的時候"},{"start":35070.56,"end":35071.56,"text":"我們已經完成了"},{"start":35071.56,"end":35075.56,"text":"整個我們從國漫館籌備處的文物收藏的政策"},{"start":35075.56,"end":35079.56,"text":"還有收藏審議會的一個設置要點"},{"start":35079.56,"end":35081.56,"text":"跟受證的作業要點"},{"start":35081.56,"end":35085.56,"text":"那同時我們也針對這個國家漫畫博物館"},{"start":35085.56,"end":35088.56,"text":"籌備處的一些圖書資料的收藏政策"},{"start":35088.56,"end":35092.56,"text":"也都已經研擬完成這樣子"},{"start":35092.56,"end":35096.56,"text":"所以後續我們會繼續把這一些法制完備之後"},{"start":35096.56,"end":35098.56,"text":"就可以來做典藏的工作"},{"start":35098.56,"end":35100.56,"text":"那典藏的空間的部分"},{"start":35100.56,"end":35106.56,"text":"目前我們也有跟國美館來借用典藏庫房來做保存喔"},{"start":35106.56,"end":35110.56,"text":"那因為國美館的庫房其實是符合這個國際標準的喔"},{"start":35110.56,"end":35113.56,"text":"那另外的就是我們準藏品的部分"},{"start":35113.56,"end":35114.56,"text":"空間的部分"},{"start":35114.56,"end":35119.56,"text":"那另外的部分我們也跟這個台南的台石博來借用空間來做暫存"},{"start":35119.56,"end":35121.56,"text":"那以上補充報告"},{"start":35124.25,"end":35128.25,"text":"所以針對這個外藝本要提升全藝本的比例"},{"start":35128.25,"end":35130.25,"text":"很困難沒有辦法提高"},{"start":35130.25,"end":35132.25,"text":"能不能請部長來說明"},{"start":35132.25,"end":35136.25,"text":"因為我不是聽得很懂剛剛這個無法無法努力的理由是什麼"},{"start":35141.79,"end":35144.79,"text":"剛剛有提到外藝本的問題就是"},{"start":35144.79,"end":35148.79,"text":"外藝的人才沒有那麼快可以培養出這麼多"},{"start":35148.79,"end":35150.79,"text":"外藝的速度比較慢"},{"start":35150.79,"end":35153.79,"text":"那我們其實有委託文學館"},{"start":35153.79,"end":35156.79,"text":"一直在開這種外藝的工作法"},{"start":35156.79,"end":35161.79,"text":"包括外籍人士我們也鼓勵他來台灣受訓"},{"start":35161.79,"end":35165.79,"text":"本國我們也盡量訓練這些外藝的人才"},{"start":35165.79,"end":35168.79,"text":"所以這個部分我們想加快腳步做"},{"start":35168.79,"end":35171.79,"text":"因為由楊雙子得獎就看出來"},{"start":35173.23,"end":35175.23,"text":"外藝是非常非常重要的"},{"start":35175.23,"end":35176.23,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":35176.93,"end":35178.93,"text":"這個要加快腳步來做"},{"start":35178.93,"end":35180.93,"text":"是很困難也需要人才"},{"start":35180.93,"end":35182.93,"text":"所以才需要你們來支持"},{"start":35182.93,"end":35183.93,"text":"是"},{"start":35188.15,"end":35189.15,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":35189.15,"end":35192.15,"text":"以下這個問題我想要直接請部長回應"},{"start":35192.15,"end":35194.15,"text":"部長我想說明一下"},{"start":35194.15,"end":35196.15,"text":"我們現在遇到的困境是"},{"start":35196.15,"end":35199.15,"text":"當我手上拿著一本簡體字的同書"},{"start":35199.15,"end":35203.15,"text":"如果我把它上架到實體書店或電子書的書店"},{"start":35203.15,"end":35206.15,"text":"那家長跟老師就會知道我買的是簡體字的同書"},{"start":35206.15,"end":35208.15,"text":"所以它沒有經過任何台灣出版社"},{"start":35208.15,"end":35211.15,"text":"它只有透過進口商"},{"start":35211.15,"end":35213.15,"text":"所以上架之後家長在買的時候"},{"start":35213.15,"end":35216.15,"text":"他會知道我買的是一個內容沒有被確認過"},{"start":35216.15,"end":35219.15,"text":"所以如果這裡面有任何統戰的認知作戰的訊息"},{"start":35219.15,"end":35221.15,"text":"家長跟老師會知道"},{"start":35221.15,"end":35223.15,"text":"好吧我衰因為我買到簡體字的書"},{"start":35223.15,"end":35225.15,"text":"可是現在部長現在狀況是"},{"start":35225.15,"end":35229.15,"text":"本來這本簡體書要進到台灣的繁體書的時候"},{"start":35229.15,"end":35231.15,"text":"一它必須要申請ISBM"},{"start":35231.15,"end":35233.15,"text":"必須要把內容送交給文化部"},{"start":35233.15,"end":35235.15,"text":"然後文化部你們看了內容之後覺得"},{"start":35235.15,"end":35237.15,"text":"something wrong有問題"},{"start":35237.15,"end":35239.15,"text":"然後你們可能就予以駁回"},{"start":35239.15,"end":35242.15,"text":"可是現在不到20%的出版社"},{"start":35242.15,"end":35244.15,"text":"真的有把書送進來審查"},{"start":35244.15,"end":35246.15,"text":"沒關係台灣認為自己是一個言論自由的國家"},{"start":35246.15,"end":35250.15,"text":"所以當這樣的書他沒有送ISBM給你們審查"},{"start":35250.15,"end":35252.15,"text":"他就把簡體書轉印成繁體書"},{"start":35252.15,"end":35254.15,"text":"送到成品、送到博客來"},{"start":35254.15,"end":35256.15,"text":"送到所有的平台上的時候"},{"start":35256.15,"end":35258.15,"text":"他甚至可能被採購進圖書館"},{"start":35258.15,"end":35261.15,"text":"然後你們文化部跟我說無法可管"},{"start":35261.15,"end":35262.15,"text":"你們當發現的時候"},{"start":35262.15,"end":35265.15,"text":"你們只能一違反兩岸人民條例讓他下架"},{"start":35265.15,"end":35268.15,"text":"而且那還是當人民有檢舉的時候"},{"start":35268.15,"end":35271.15,"text":"那現在電子書的平台更可怕"},{"start":35271.15,"end":35272.15,"text":"部長我跟你報告"},{"start":35272.15,"end":35274.15,"text":"remu也好cobo也好"},{"start":35274.15,"end":35276.15,"text":"現在所有電子書"},{"start":35276.15,"end":35279.15,"text":"簡體字的童書、簡體字的小說"},{"start":35279.15,"end":35281.15,"text":"裡面藏著任何認知作戰的訊息"},{"start":35281.15,"end":35284.15,"text":"他完全不需要送你們文化部審查"},{"start":35284.15,"end":35287.15,"text":"直接電子書零成本上架"},{"start":35287.15,"end":35290.15,"text":"現在的簡體字轉繁體字的技術"},{"start":35290.15,"end":35292.15,"text":"30秒就可以完成一本"},{"start":35292.15,"end":35293.15,"text":"然後直接上架"},{"start":35293.15,"end":35295.15,"text":"有多少家長跟老師"},{"start":35295.15,"end":35298.15,"text":"在完全不知道他是中國的書的情況下"},{"start":35298.15,"end":35299.15,"text":"他買了之後"},{"start":35299.15,"end":35301.15,"text":"他下載付費的時候"},{"start":35301.15,"end":35304.15,"text":"他發現他是一本這樣的電子書"},{"start":35304.15,"end":35305.15,"text":"所以部長我一直在告訴你"},{"start":35305.15,"end":35307.15,"text":"文化部已經講超過一年了"},{"start":35307.15,"end":35309.15,"text":"但是文化部就說"},{"start":35309.15,"end":35310.15,"text":"好啦你們找業者談了"},{"start":35310.15,"end":35312.15,"text":"業者說他們會自律"},{"start":35313.31,"end":35316.31,"text":"然後所以文化部可以不用有角色嗎"},{"start":35316.31,"end":35317.31,"text":"可是我要提醒部長"},{"start":35317.31,"end":35319.31,"text":"為什麼我這麼著急這件事情"},{"start":35320.4,"end":35323.4,"text":"當所有部會、所有民間團體"},{"start":35323.4,"end":35325.4,"text":"大家努力在防止認知作戰"},{"start":35325.4,"end":35327.4,"text":"滲透的這些事情的時候"},{"start":35327.4,"end":35329.4,"text":"文化部竟然置身事外"},{"start":35330.67,"end":35332.67,"text":"而且就從同書開始"},{"start":35333.19,"end":35335.19,"text":"那當我們教育部還在做"},{"start":35335.19,"end":35336.19,"text":"試讀中國的教材的時候"},{"start":35336.19,"end":35338.19,"text":"我們部長還因此被貼上"},{"start":35338.19,"end":35339.19,"text":"玩列台獨分子"},{"start":35339.19,"end":35341.19,"text":"那請問文化部跟教育部"},{"start":35341.19,"end":35343.19,"text":"難道不用一起攜手努力嗎"},{"start":35343.19,"end":35344.19,"text":"試讀中國這件事情"},{"start":35344.19,"end":35346.19,"text":"已經不是只有台灣要做的事情"},{"start":35346.19,"end":35349.19,"text":"全世界國家現在都在面臨"},{"start":35349.19,"end":35351.19,"text":"當中國用各式各樣的方法"},{"start":35351.19,"end":35353.19,"text":"在做滲透認知作戰的時候"},{"start":35353.19,"end":35355.19,"text":"沒有一個部會可以置身事外"},{"start":35355.19,"end":35356.19,"text":"而從同書這件事情"},{"start":35356.19,"end":35358.19,"text":"文化部到現在依然認為"},{"start":35358.19,"end":35361.19,"text":"自己不需要任何法制的角色跟規範"},{"start":35361.19,"end":35362.19,"text":"我們現在就先讓業者"},{"start":35362.19,"end":35364.19,"text":"做自律平台就好"},{"start":35364.19,"end":35366.19,"text":"而這個自律平台是怎麼產生的"},{"start":35366.19,"end":35367.19,"text":"部長我再跟你報告"},{"start":35367.19,"end":35368.19,"text":"三次的座談會"},{"start":35368.19,"end":35371.19,"text":"都是因為也有業者跑來告訴我說"},{"start":35371.19,"end":35373.19,"text":"培育我們很希望跟文化部對話"},{"start":35373.19,"end":35375.19,"text":"但是文化部決定撒手一管"},{"start":35375.19,"end":35376.19,"text":"他們就說好吧"},{"start":35376.19,"end":35378.19,"text":"那我們自己先來自律我們自己"},{"start":35378.99,"end":35379.99,"text":"部長你聽懂了嗎"},{"start":35379.99,"end":35380.99,"text":"這個邏輯是這樣來的"},{"start":35380.99,"end":35382.99,"text":"而不是"},{"start":35382.99,"end":35384.99,"text":"我非常的激動部長"},{"start":35384.99,"end":35385.99,"text":"我要告訴你"},{"start":35385.99,"end":35389.99,"text":"是7月1號中國通過那個荒謬的法規之後"},{"start":35389.99,"end":35392.99,"text":"請問我們真的還要繼續置身事外嗎"},{"start":35392.99,"end":35395.99,"text":"當所有的家長跟老師在努力防堵這樣的書"},{"start":35395.99,"end":35397.99,"text":"進入孩子們的日常生活的時候"},{"start":35397.99,"end":35399.99,"text":"文化部沒有任何法制規範"},{"start":35399.99,"end":35400.99,"text":"沒有任何態度"},{"start":35400.99,"end":35402.99,"text":"我沒有辦法接受"},{"start":35402.99,"end":35404.99,"text":"今天所有的文化部的預算"},{"start":35404.99,"end":35407.99,"text":"我都希望全力的支持並且捍衛到底"},{"start":35407.99,"end":35408.99,"text":"但這件事情"},{"start":35408.99,"end":35411.99,"text":"我要拜託部長我親自跟您報告"},{"start":35411.99,"end":35412.99,"text":"它就是這麼嚴重"},{"start":35412.99,"end":35413.99,"text":"好"},{"start":35413.99,"end":35415.99,"text":"我先請問一下培育委員你是第幾案"},{"start":35420.26,"end":35422.26,"text":"沒有很多案但是最激動的"},{"start":35422.26,"end":35423.26,"text":"沒事沒事"},{"start":35423.26,"end":35424.26,"text":"是141"},{"start":35424.26,"end":35426.26,"text":"141喔"},{"start":35426.26,"end":35428.26,"text":"好那我真的覺得你很重視"},{"start":35428.26,"end":35430.26,"text":"我也覺得這應該要處理"},{"start":35430.26,"end":35434.26,"text":"你要不要就直接凍結讓他事後給你報告"},{"start":35434.91,"end":35436.91,"text":"我先說我"},{"start":35436.91,"end":35438.91,"text":"我覺得如果部長清楚了"},{"start":35438.91,"end":35440.91,"text":"為什麼我這麼在意這件事情"},{"start":35440.91,"end":35443.91,"text":"而且部長我認為你可以要求你的幕僚"},{"start":35443.91,"end":35444.91,"text":"回去跟你報告"},{"start":35444.91,"end":35445.91,"text":"到底我們辦公室開了幾次會"},{"start":35445.91,"end":35448.91,"text":"我今天所有提案我都可以改主決議"},{"start":35448.91,"end":35450.91,"text":"但是我要拜託部長"},{"start":35450.91,"end":35452.91,"text":"這件事情就是這麼嚴重"},{"start":35452.91,"end":35454.91,"text":"當我們努力向世界發聲"},{"start":35454.91,"end":35456.91,"text":"當我們今天還在炒煤炫費的時候"},{"start":35456.91,"end":35459.91,"text":"文化部真的不要在這件事情上再次置身事外"},{"start":35459.91,"end":35460.91,"text":"尤其是電子書上架"},{"start":35460.91,"end":35462.91,"text":"它是零成本"},{"start":35462.91,"end":35464.91,"text":"而且世界的人自己都在告訴自己零成本"},{"start":35464.91,"end":35466.91,"text":"而當有人要賺這個方便財的時候"},{"start":35466.91,"end":35469.91,"text":"甚至如果有人他是要刻意配合中國"},{"start":35469.91,"end":35470.91,"text":"部長你還記得嗎"},{"start":35470.91,"end":35473.91,"text":"2020年有一本書叫等爸爸回家"},{"start":35473.91,"end":35475.91,"text":"他就上架全台灣各大書店"},{"start":35475.91,"end":35479.91,"text":"它裡面是多麼讚頌武漢歌頌武漢"},{"start":35479.91,"end":35481.91,"text":"而2020為什麼要出這本書"},{"start":35481.91,"end":35482.91,"text":"大家還記得嗎"},{"start":35482.91,"end":35485.91,"text":"因為2019出現了COVID-19"},{"start":35485.91,"end":35487.91,"text":"所以中國努力在做大外宣"},{"start":35487.91,"end":35488.91,"text":"好"},{"start":35488.91,"end":35489.91,"text":"那本書當然現在已經查證"},{"start":35489.91,"end":35490.91,"text":"我有感受到你的憤怒"},{"start":35490.91,"end":35491.91,"text":"但是這個沒有停"},{"start":35491.91,"end":35493.91,"text":"我也覺得是不是就請部長"},{"start":35493.91,"end":35494.91,"text":"我們加速推進"},{"start":35494.91,"end":35496.91,"text":"但是你要面對委員的提案"},{"start":35496.91,"end":35499.91,"text":"你是不是就面對委員的提案正面回應"},{"start":35499.91,"end":35500.91,"text":"如果不行的話"},{"start":35500.91,"end":35502.91,"text":"委員是不是就趕快決定要不要凍結"},{"start":35502.91,"end":35504.91,"text":"沒有我都說了我可以改主決議"},{"start":35504.91,"end":35505.91,"text":"沒關係你尊重你"},{"start":35505.91,"end":35506.91,"text":"那你的提案"},{"start":35506.91,"end":35507.91,"text":"對我改主決議"},{"start":35507.91,"end":35508.91,"text":"我全部都可以改主決議"},{"start":35508.91,"end":35510.91,"text":"所以你現在他要改主決議"},{"start":35510.91,"end":35511.91,"text":"幫他直接登記"},{"start":35511.91,"end":35512.91,"text":"那他要改主決議"},{"start":35512.91,"end":35514.91,"text":"你要回應他讓他滿意"},{"start":35514.91,"end":35515.91,"text":"還是覺得他已經改主決議"},{"start":35515.91,"end":35516.91,"text":"不用回應他這麼滿意"},{"start":35516.91,"end":35518.91,"text":"那你決定好不好"},{"start":35518.91,"end":35519.91,"text":"那我們加速推進"},{"start":35519.91,"end":35520.91,"text":"拜託拜託"},{"start":35522.39,"end":35523.39,"text":"一定要回應啊"},{"start":35523.39,"end":35524.39,"text":"你要回應委員的需求啊"},{"start":35525.36,"end":35527.36,"text":"這一點我其實我個人"},{"start":35527.36,"end":35529.36,"text":"也有感覺到譬如說"},{"start":35529.36,"end":35531.36,"text":"剛剛講到監體制的同輸"},{"start":35531.36,"end":35536.36,"text":"還有透過那個網路那個平台"},{"start":35536.36,"end":35539.36,"text":"大量的中國同輸過到台灣來"},{"start":35539.36,"end":35541.36,"text":"這個事情我其實滿清楚"},{"start":35541.36,"end":35543.36,"text":"而且我們不斷的在尋找"},{"start":35543.36,"end":35545.36,"text":"過去的一些法令可能真的"},{"start":35545.36,"end":35548.36,"text":"沒有辦法去阻止這一些"},{"start":35548.36,"end":35549.36,"text":"我其實自己滿清楚"},{"start":35549.36,"end":35553.36,"text":"中國整個統戰的那個過程是"},{"start":35553.36,"end":35555.36,"text":"非常快速的"},{"start":35555.36,"end":35557.36,"text":"那我想我們要比照"},{"start":35557.36,"end":35561.36,"text":"目前其他部門能夠找到的法令"},{"start":35561.36,"end":35563.36,"text":"包括除了兩岸人民條例之外"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":4658.53,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_00","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"bQizvTOZdT2JzWk9rkjhvfOxrDwYoka8ximRvH5qu72n4A2+GPxLO45sv70foaU9godcPXieyrtj3wq8WihTPXsTJ73OKn+8Y3JmPd1o3Dw8Boi9vnF+vc9dmz0Tv7o9/ulNPK9Lrz1yQpi9GuiSvSO8MT0FDSQ96YTwPMLJd7xroYG8ivhcvS6lNL18wU69irGbu65fqr0Sn3U8714UvR48zzxk0Uk8F0q2PXgJnz0l5Gg9S0wNPUT2w7wxYYo8AICLvde1Eb0gG4g7qN6ZvZCamz3SIpw9cHwqvWMZVLyiV1Y9vDSXvCrKRL0X7po8HDFAvPwrab2k+lm9rIqKPQAmBD0K+/o9pLaFPc+UbLzUjHU9YYbEPRmLXD3zRQw86/cBPY9dRzzPPdC9otZ1Otc5lD15HGo7lpo/PXC9ErzhQLs9tS8rPT2NzT1JqYK8Ozy1vdz8v70Zr1E8fXOjvLRHOL0FR/S9+1X3vJXm3byY19K81F17vHDzFj0q9Sy+tVrSPfu0h73HCe88HKcDvtYZPz5FXc48Y7AIPkV8VTzbcfE8BBHsvI2l0bt6npg9GK3yPJhbcb3zMWq8VovPPcVKQTyaCYS9UNMlPXDxej16z7W84qgSvPU+0TugY0a8ATyOvbvsgj1iXB29k4P2PG4Q0D1+u5m9P4BSPVSBoD1kbFe8qIVKPZCCsTxWnC++kMEZvHlFibw2wPa8gZEAvXyOTr0ndTU85VFaufDuhLy6gs48BbjsPJcZU73rLUG98AtFPbOfMb3nGq087mOivQCDsDwmcDC8tt7rvHBcCz0zH4C9JQznPWRylz24E0e7jinNvN7KLjzq02M8YTyfO4+idr116eg9VDeVPKVpvTzF35K9CdI9vWGh47zPzI69j96iPUlKXb0vxCo9E8/fPKKlWTxQweK8wb0OvhpIGz3opYc9uqFoPZKULDxJyry9UzcGvugBE73dJ6s85ehPvHE0vj2nPgS+Pwn6PR0CzLzIi7Y7rPcNPcgxrj1S2Xi8x8YWvVTZH72JPgc+ZmdNPOTeuLzBzPe4HoI0PTPZZ72ipWM8sohjvTAuzzzXNdI9Cg1iPckBvT0LLdq62m4cvQXArz1Kiuc9YO9MPYj3wD15rwa9TR47vZaJzT1ECp49FraCuzDJiz0jVZs9A8UZvEeFFL46yai8ZF4QPCVAZr3zNKA8F6btvWu9Sr0vN6C5aWcgvRTngb12P2Y8NkOovQQNTjxBq169br99PbHYG70NLSk8WemGvF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