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憤如集團聚焦在一些新興毒品走私的一個狀況那本局這邊特別透過圖表的方式在我們專報的第一頁跟第二頁來呈現主要的內容有包括到毒品棄毒 查棄的一個情形那以及主要的毒品佔比的狀況那這部分的資料我們是整理到從去年的六月到今年的五月相關的一個情形那希望用圖表的方式來呈現讓大家可以掌握相關的趨勢那在新興毒品的部分依託名指已經被列為是第一級的毒品"},{"start":2098.075,"end":2125.783,"text":"那它的成品跟先驅原料來源主要包括有印度跟東南亞國家還有中國大陸那其中印度跟馬來西亞還有越南是主要依托米子成品粉末的來源那中國大陸是它的先驅原料特別是依托米子酸主要的一個走勢來源那另外一個毒品Ketamine它是被列為第三級的毒品那它的成品跟先驅原料主要來自於泰國、緬甸還有寮國等等的國家那因為它的製造"},{"start":2127.124,"end":2142.763,"text":"販運、持有以及私用它的行則比較輕因為是第三級的毒品所以這國內氾濫的狀況相對來講也比較嚴重那另一個是氏甲基甲基卡西銅也被列為第三級的毒品那它的成品跟先驅的原料主要來自於中、港、澳等地區"},{"start":2144.183,"end":2166.853,"text":"常常跟Kentamin一起混合包裝成咖啡包或茶包等等的一個產品以便來規避相關司法機關的一個查緝那第二部分跟大家說明的是有關於毒品進入到台灣三個主要的管道那第二管道是有關於海空貨櫃的一個夾帶那也就是這些毒品是透過海空運的一個貨櫃來進口那以一般的一個產品的一個名義來夾帶毒品入關"},{"start":2168.874,"end":2196.452,"text":"那因為它的運輸量最大所以可能在我們查獲的毒品的狀況裡面它是最主要的一個途徑那一般的進行方式主要都是謊報毒品或先驅原料只是一般的通關貨物那假藏在貨物當中試圖來進行闖關入境那第二類主要的管道是透過海上船舶的解駁來進行走私那這部分主要是透過小型的船隻來載運毒品那例如像從金三角的地區接運Ketamine等等的毒品"},{"start":2196.832,"end":2225.668,"text":"再到熱點的走私水域然後轉由同夥的子船來接載入台那第三個主要的管道是透過國際的包裹來進行遞送那也就是利用國際包裹它具有少量分裝多批寄送的一個特性來降低單次的走私遭到查緝以及毒品遭到全盤沒入的一個風險那主要的做法大概都是偽冒寄件人的一些聯絡的方式然後再指派不知情的人士來提醒包裹來製造我們相關查緝的一個斷點"},{"start":2226.548,"end":2246.17,"text":"第三部分跟各位說明的是有關於政府的反制作為那本局因為是國安情報機關所以我們的大概法律的角色是在統合國安情報的團隊透過我們的國際的情報合作來掌搜涉毒的線索跟情資以便來支援司法檢查機關進行一些跨境毒品販運的一個查報"},{"start":2246.75,"end":2271.302,"text":"那主要的反制作為我們這邊大概題列有五項那也注意的跟各位委員做一個說明第一部分是發揮情報聯防那本局是透由情報聯防的機制來整合情收的能量防止海上非法的轉運海空關口的運送人體夾帶毒品等等的犯罪的方式並且來掌握軍事營區內跟外涉及毒品的對象跟網絡以便來提升我們國安情報團隊整體的緝毒重效"},{"start":2273.843,"end":2299.937,"text":"第二部分是有關於深化國際的協作那本局會持續的來推動跟國際友盟的交流還有協作分享相關涉毒的一個情緒那也會不定期的來召開國際的反毒工作會議研討國際毒品犯罪的趨勢以及重大毒品案件偵查的一個經驗來精進我們國安情報團隊毒品增資識別以及攔截走勢的一個效能第三部分主要是掌握毒品的相關的販運的一個網絡"},{"start":2301.758,"end":2321.829,"text":"那我們會協同國安情報機關來分析新興毒品的來源輸入管道以及販運的一個途徑以便來掌握毒品整體販運的圖像達到源頭打擊的一個目標那第四個做法我們是強化科技的徵收那本局會協同司法警察機關運用我們科技情報的手段加強在暗網的徵收以及數位的查查"},{"start":2322.589,"end":2346.865,"text":"特別把重點放在加密的貨幣、虛擬的錢包、跨境支付等等的手法以便來有效的打擊暗網毒品的交易第一部分我們會持續的來建構整體的團隊量能本局都有定期的來舉辦各種反毒情報的一個訓練課程研聘我們國內外的專家來講授相關案件關聯的分析以及第三方支付偵查的方法"},{"start":2347.285,"end":2361.71,"text":"另外也包括到無人機操縱的技巧那透過這種實作演練的方式來精進偵辦的技巧還有情資研修的能力以便來因應各種新型毒品犯罪的樣態好 最後一部分是有關於結語那近年新型毒品氾濫的趨勢不斷的升溫那影響到我們國家"},{"start":2365.151,"end":2385.457,"text":"社會的安定跟秩序所以本局也從國家安全的角度來統合國安情報團隊透由我們的情報聯防國際協作源頭打擊能力建構等等的作為來精進我們情報的分享跟查緝的技能以便來構築多層次的反毒的防線保障國人的健康跟社會安全以上報告敬請各位委員不臨執教 謝謝接下來我們請內政部馬次長上台報告"},{"start":2403.693,"end":2429.663,"text":"主席各位委員以及媒體女士先生大家早安今應邀出席貴委會報告新興毒品走私之國安情治整合與跨國企圖協同作為內政部基於我們是治安主管機關跟各位委員簡報如下統計從114年1月份至115年6月份本部各警察機關總共查緝毒品走私入台案件399件"},{"start":2431.752,"end":2459.146,"text":"那麼就整體企圖的部分內政部針對企圖份子責任為積極向上溯源加強查緝走私毒品及製毒工廠於115年1月13日頒訂警察機關深化溯源斷根企圖計畫重點在於追查各類毒品供應來源及銷售管道又更進一步因為今年有關於毒價的問題以及新興毒品的議題"},{"start":2460.547,"end":2484.14,"text":"濫用的情況嚴重於本年5月24日起規劃執行全國同步強化查緝毒價及斷元企圖專案統計至6月30日時查獲毒價案件總共4,004件整體查獲毒品粉末152.8公斤其中包括依託民脂煙彈6,367顆煙油1,480瓶有關於國際執法合作的部分"},{"start":2490.752,"end":2493.359,"text":"內政部也持續應用各駐外警察聯絡組以及駐在國的執法機關"},{"start":2497.298,"end":2521.981,"text":"共同建立情資交流及合作機制那麼在兩岸共打的部分也與陸方共同分享情資總共146件那麼整體的毒品防制架構下內政部肩負內陸棄毒的重任除本部警政署、警政署航空警察局保安警察第三總隊及各港務警察總隊整邊境執法單位之外"},{"start":2522.842,"end":2548.934,"text":"也與包括官務單位以及調查單位合作持續打擊共讀藥頭強力掃蕩分裝廠跟販毒熱點希望對新毒品的部分強力查劑來深化整體的販毒成效以上報告請主席及各位委員持交 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請法務部調查局連副局長上台報告"},{"start":2560.854,"end":2589.13,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天列行的貴委員會針對新興毒品走私之國安情之整合與跨國企毒協同作為提出報告因書面資料較多 重點報告如下目前國內常見之新興毒品主要是凱他命還有合成卡西銅類 俗稱喵喵等以及俯改列為第一級毒品之伊托米子類另外用於製造第三級毒品之第四級毒品先驅原料亦為當前的查緝重點"},{"start":2590.273,"end":2601.116,"text":"第二部分是有關新興毒品的查緝情形在凱他命部分113年查獲3846公斤114年是3280公斤混合毒品包部分113年查獲161512包114年是155927包那毒煙彈的部分113年查獲18687顆114年查獲40610顆"},{"start":2614.602,"end":2631.687,"text":"第四集毒品先驅原料113年是查獲1467公斤114年是12584公斤從查獲的來源地看凱塔命的部分查獲是以國內製造及東南亞的走私為主混合毒品包及毒煙彈均為國內查獲"},{"start":2633.956,"end":2655.857,"text":"第四級毒品的先驅原料從查獲量及佔比來看中國大陸是最大的來源國因為該先驅原料在中國大陸僅列為抑制毒的化學品而未以毒品來列管第三部分是有關氣毒情資整合機制法務部有制定的五項策略作為如下第一個是達成科技化的氣毒精進作為"},{"start":2656.57,"end":2684.604,"text":"有建構的全國毒品資料庫建置行情請參閱第二是建立了重大毒品案件情資整合分享及爭議的協調機制其中重大毒品案件情資一化通報系統從12年啟用迄今已通報了377件數據已請參閱第三是區域聯防與督導機制台高檢有成立了六處的區域聯防企圖辦公室整合了各區域六大企圖系統之企圖情資及偵辦業務"},{"start":2686.909,"end":2691.953,"text":"第四是為了因應新型毒品變化快速源頭管理的未列管原料刻不容緩"},{"start":2693.188,"end":2715.605,"text":"因為毒消為了規避查緝,常常改變毒品之化學結構以未列管的先驅原料來制毒因此即時查獲、即時提報法務部毒品審議委員會來核准列管第二,法務部已建立了相關的預警作為將無產業價值且未列管之可供制毒的原料提報毒品審議委員會決議列管"},{"start":2717.657,"end":2745.945,"text":"另外台高檢已設立了製毒原料的預警平台迄今內已預警了34項未列管可供製毒的原料第五是提升新興毒品檢驗能量並建立緩衝機制這部分是擬設置了新興毒品尿液檢驗緩衝區由民間醫院及軍醫院投入檢驗以提升檢驗的能量第四部分是近期本局發現小三通亦為中國大陸走私列管的毒品先驅原料的管道"},{"start":2747.11,"end":2767.117,"text":"本局從今年4月16日,迄今已經陸續查獲事件,旅客從小三通模式夾藏疑似毒品先驅原料來台其中查獲之一秀本機一品同,經建設可用於製造第三級毒品本局將提報法務部毒品審議委員會,提列為第四級毒品先驅原料進行列管"},{"start":2768.305,"end":2783.639,"text":"第五是國際合作企圖作為部分首先在毒品案件情資通報與協同偵辦作為部分偵辦的毒品案件涉外情資經細數的檢察官同意之後本局會透過派駐於23國30位法務秘書來通報案官國家對等機構來參爭那此類情資在114年交換有303件115年基金為158件資料也請參閱"},{"start":2795.181,"end":2802.91,"text":"國際合作案件偵辦成效本局114年經過情資交換合作偵破有9萬查獲各級毒品7388公斤115年有偵破3案查獲毒品是2026公斤個案資料請參閱"},{"start":2811.943,"end":2831.692,"text":"在國際企圖機關交流與跨境查緝研討部分為了增進國際毒品情師交流及合作偵辦案件的成效本局與美國企圖署國土安全部日本後生省麻藥取締部海上保安廳及東南亞各國的企圖機關長期以來均保持密切的聯繫互訪相關資料請參閱在結論的部分"},{"start":2835.475,"end":2854.742,"text":"未來將持續依照行政院新世代反毒策略行動綱理第三期的政策規劃以截毒於境外、攬毒於外海、拒毒於關口、棄毒於境內為工作指導方針結合各單位力量積極查緝各級毒品以達到拔根斷源、阻斷供給之目標以上報告進行指教"},{"start":2861.989,"end":2877.377,"text":"我們現在開始詢答本會委員6加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘10點30分截止發言登記如果有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請沈博洋委員上台質詢"},{"start":2891.93,"end":2906.097,"text":"好 謝謝主席我先請這個這個關務署還有海巡跟調查局好不好這個大局的副局長那海巡今天是副署長嘛好 以上單位關務署也是副署長"},{"start":2914.244,"end":2939.345,"text":"那相信現在國人真的是非常關心不管是毒價的問題還是這一個毒品流入校園的問題這個大概是現在急需解決那我們這邊有寫到就是說毒品防治最主要這幾個主要的防線第一個當然就是境外的阻絕境外的阻絕那再來還有邊境的查緝那還包含海域的這個攔截跟境內的查辦那我相信就是"},{"start":2939.785,"end":2966.539,"text":"各位這個都分屬這個不同的權責那我第一個想先問的就是因為我看到關務署的這個新聞稿他說去年超過九成的這一個查緝案是自行查獲九成但是因為之前有新聞說也有透過外國的海關的通知來協助這個毒品的查緝那是不是可以說明一下這一個國外的案例這個就是透過國外的通知然後最後查緝到"},{"start":2969.975,"end":2996.347,"text":"是 公務委員報告海關這個因為有一個世界公務組織的一個有個機制在所以台灣的海關跟各國的海關都有隨時有不管透過E-mail不管透過電話不管透過什麼樣的形式都有那曾經很多的案例你比如說像美國像越南日本都有曾經發生過的因為"},{"start":2997.848,"end":3011.733,"text":"國外的海關通知我們然後在旅客在貨運的這一個部分都有查過的案例那這一個就是說呢我們因為他會通知嘛比如說今天台灣有人訂購"},{"start":3012.893,"end":3031.338,"text":"那訂購了之後呢他可能是透過電商啊等等之類的但是他可能是在海外比如說我知道之前有一個案例他可能是在德國還是在哪裡他們本身就發現了然後所以他們通知那這一個這一個按佔這個所有就是目前我們的這個量就是所有這個茶器的量大概佔多少"},{"start":3032.574,"end":3058.18,"text":"就是這種有海外來回報的這種有海外來回報的那個佔的比例不高幾乎超過九成以上的毒品都是海關自行查獲通過海關自己的風險分析機制所以這個就變成是我們這一邊有九成其實是我們這一邊主動我們自己查獲然後大概有一成我剛剛講的就是可能是其他的來源也包含剛剛講的海外這個部分"},{"start":3058.82,"end":3078.719,"text":"那因為這個因為我之前就有遇過就是說我們其實不管是我們警政署 調查局我們是有些人在海外然後也專門跟這些在海外查緝毒品的做對口因為呢畢竟他們一旦有掌握第一線的資料我們雖然很難有時候會有直接形式上的這一個形式司法的合作但實質的這個合作其實是有"},{"start":3079.239,"end":3094.661,"text":"那因為這個佔比現在雖然還沒有到高像剛剛說資金起來它是大概一成左右但它因為這樣子進來的可能性還是有所以這一個海外的量能就是說我們能不能夠多一點人來配合這個當然是第一個我們可以思考的點"},{"start":3095.402,"end":3109.331,"text":"那第二個呢我就可以看到就問一下調查局就是因為我發現這一個剛剛講很多都是第一個是國內的海關嘛對不對那調查局這邊負責的是直接的這個查緝這幾年呢比較大宗的這個查緝呢其實從2017一直到2025可以看到2024跟2025它的這一個頻率變高了是"},{"start":3115.795,"end":3131.851,"text":"當然 這個是 絕對是這次DLH表示這個能量做得到這件事那我想問的事情就是說現在是因為走私的量變得更為增加了還是說是因為有科技執法啊等等之類的讓你們更好 更容易的可以查獲這種比較大宗的"},{"start":3132.899,"end":3157.462,"text":"跟委員報告目前走私的這種毒品數量確實是越來越大那從去年到現在我們查緝包含上次在北基站查獲那一件天發財號的走私案件我們查獲了700多塊的海洛因還有300多公斤的K他命那今年年初我們也查獲了這個第10號遊艇走私案查獲了這個K他命總共有1500多公斤"},{"start":3158.823,"end":3177.951,"text":"那我們相關是結合了各單位的力量包含海巡署包含先兵指揮部我們發揮群策的力量同時呢也透過DEA的協助所以我們可以在這個情勢呢其實我們都是監控兩三年以上的案件然後從這個線上從各種反應發現他要去國外運毒的時候我們就會積極來偵辦以上報告"},{"start":3179.312,"end":3196.511,"text":"好 那我現在當然比較擔心的一件事情就是說當然我們這個茶器的量呢看起來是越來越不錯但是因為就說真的其實是走私的量變得越來越大那走私的量變大當然我們今天能夠茶器的量也會跟著變大那我們有沒有辦法跟上這件事情這其實是變得非常的重要是"},{"start":3197.091,"end":3210.963,"text":"那我們當然其實海巡當然也非常的辛苦就是說在針對這件事情要做更多的邊境的這個查獲那這邊跟大海局的合作我想應該不會有太大的問題但接下來我想問的就是這邊可能這邊請回我想問這個可能要請馬次長請馬次長請馬次長"},{"start":3217.366,"end":3237.159,"text":"委員早安因為現在就是說有這個校園的問題那我也知道就是說當然有一些是因為今天教育部不在但是因為校園這件事情的確它不是很好解那到底有誰在使用這件事情呢在校內搞不好其實大家有可能得知就是說誰的風險高誰的風險低"},{"start":3238.84,"end":3251.917,"text":"那他在做這些交易的時候他當然有可能像剛剛講的電商但剛剛聽起來從關務署這個角度來看這個電商不一定是大眾還有很多可能是實體的交易那實體的交易畢竟對學校來說這個實體交易的熱點大概不會離學校太遠"},{"start":3256.102,"end":3281.244,"text":"那我現在就是比較擔心的就是因為接下來又要在九月要再開學那我們擔心的是毒品流入校園那我們有沒有可能有這樣的一個專案就是說在校園附近的這樣的一個熱點的一個查緝能夠加強跟委員報告因為目前行政院我們有三位政委統統這個專案那依照那個教育部他回報3700多個學校附近大概他們原本就有9000多個"},{"start":3282.685,"end":3304.882,"text":"治安熱點那這個部分我們在地方的派出所跟學校都有連線所以等於是說除了傳統的這個犯罪的問題之外那毒品的部分我們會強化這個部分跟學校的聯繫因為原本的治安熱點不一定會是他們交易的熱點那現在因為畢竟我覺得兩件事第一個是我們絕對不要讓毒品流入校園"},{"start":3305.683,"end":3333.564,"text":"他附近交易的熱點我們可以重新做一次盤點那再來就是因為獨駕現在嚴重但如果獨駕這件事情你要徹頭徹尾的抓那需要的警力非常非常龐大那我們現在有一些人在使用道路上最弱勢的應該就還是小孩所以呢對於獨駕這件事情的查緝尤其先以校園周遭比如說500公尺為主的話那至少我們可以先把小孩保護好了我覺得這件事情是特別重要好的我們這個會來強化"},{"start":3335.285,"end":3363.464,"text":"這就要請內政部那接下來就是說因為有一些事情就是這個可能就跟內政部並沒有直接的關係比如說在校園裡面他要怎麼去宣導那宣導之後呢這一個我看國外有很多比較著名的做法就是他們不但宣導而且要宣導拒絕的機制而且拒絕的機制還要有效就是說你必須要他拒絕而且他如果拒絕無效的時候他有誰可以馬上尋求協助那這個協助當然呢我們可能還是要靠衛福部跟教育部來一起努力"},{"start":3364.204,"end":3393.266,"text":"但是内政部这边还是可以有协助内政部比较多可能还是以执法的角色那执法的角色除了刚刚讲的附近的交易的热点然后呢还有独家的这个防范那还有呢这个警察的一个stand by当然也很重要因为假设他今天校园之内去建立那个拒绝的机制他拒绝如果失败的时候其实也可以马上就知道因为他有寻求协助的对象嘛在校内寻求协助的对象之后呢不但要帮助到这一个人那也知道交易的对象在哪里这个时候如果有"},{"start":3394.306,"end":3413.413,"text":"這個警政署在stand by的話那這個時候對校園要查緝的這個防治工作當然就會很大所以這方面衛福部跟教育部暑假這邊要研擬出來方案的時候再請內政部可以一起跟他們協作好 謝謝委員 余定佩爾 謝謝那最後呢 我知道時間時間已經到了但我再問一下局長 國安局局長 謝謝在那個 前局長"},{"start":3421.666,"end":3431.553,"text":"因為國安局這次也有特別提到這個治安問題已經上升到國安層級了因為畢竟流入的產品製造的國家其實也包含中國"},{"start":3436.618,"end":3460.936,"text":"目前來講就是說剛剛講的都是治安當然講的是小孩的保護的一個問題那針對這樣的一個國安層級的問題還有接下來我們會遇到更多的因為它畢竟就是它對於我們這個國家的侵害然後藉由這樣的一個方式它可能會造成的這個治安的亂象會變得非常的大對不對這是第一個然後第二個就是因為最近智庫在報告這個海關隔離的問題"},{"start":3461.937,"end":3481.381,"text":"那海關隔離的這個逐步封鎖因為中國海警這個在這個稍早的時候有出現在這個東部外圍的國際海域嘛對不對要求外國的商船要去通報它的出發跟目的啊這個聽起來是兩件事啦但是對我來講你看我們現在海巡還有我們對於關物的這個查緝就這個變得非常的重要"},{"start":3481.861,"end":3501.606,"text":"然後他又在我們的海域來做這種灰色地帶的作戰這兩個加成起來再加上剛剛講的毒品這一個製造的這個來源這也不得不說我們必須可能要特別注重就是要把這個治安的層級要以國安的角度來思考那如果從這個角度來思考的話我們要下去的資源就變得要更多"},{"start":3502.602,"end":3522.581,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒那事實上這種毒品的問題它不單單只是社會治安的問題因為治安跟司法查緝的部分高檢署這邊本來就有相關的一個統合協調機制在指揮我們國內的相關司法檢查機關來偵辦那我們國安局主要是從國安的角度特別是國安情報的角度那也希望能夠透過我們國安情報機關的統合協調"},{"start":3525.283,"end":3543.182,"text":"來應對整個可能在相關問題上它在國安面向的一個衝擊那我們剛剛有提到不管是海關隔離或是區域中要海域的封控再配合到毒品的一個輸出那這會不會對於我們自己的國家安全或是對於整個區域相關鄰近國家的一個國安產生一些衝擊"},{"start":3543.903,"end":3558.64,"text":"那這也是國安局比較關切的也跟委員說明一下我們在今年上半年1月到6月底為止那針對這些海事安全議題以及怎麼樣來加強跟周邊國家海域感知MDA的相關的對話合作已經有跟20幾個國家進行了快100場的相關的交流對話"},{"start":3562.705,"end":3586.536,"text":"那主要的目的就是因為我們從國安的角度來研析中共的這些海事擴張以及相關的一個可能灰帶的一個侵擾對於整個區域國家在安全上產生了衝擊那我們希望這個問題不是單單只是我們國內安全問題而是能夠串聯出區域國家在這個面向更深入的一個合作好 謝謝 因為我覺得今天安排這個毒品的問題我認為真的是非常的重要它一方面它是"},{"start":3587.256,"end":3611.611,"text":"影響到我們的小孩子他也影響到我們的治安他也影響到我們的交通安全也影響到我們海巡跟關務署查緝的量能然後他現在又在做這些灰色地帶的作戰他會又去影響到就是海巡已經為了這件事情他已經要忙翻天然後他又在做這些灰色地帶的侵擾那這個時候呢雖然今天來不及問海巡但是顯然海巡需要更多的資源需要更多的幫忙"},{"start":3612.071,"end":3633.208,"text":"那不然的話這個量能一定會被壓垮所以這個被壓垮這個對我來講就是一種就是一種灰色地帶這個對我們來講所以這種情報的分享然後跨部會的分享然後最後這些資源要怎樣可能可以更多我覺得這件事情拜託就是我們能夠多多支持我們的海巡人員也謝謝委員的提醒跟支持謝謝謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":3638.629,"end":3654.68,"text":"我們接下來請陳俊宇委員上台質詢好謝謝主席我們有請蔡局長請蔡局長好局長早"},{"start":3662.773,"end":3682.759,"text":"今天除了毒品以外我想就近期內幾項中共的相關時事跟動態來請教我們局長首先是上個禮拜我們看到中共所舉行的105週年的黨慶除了擴大舉辦相關的活動以外習近平也照常發表了談話"},{"start":3684.42,"end":3708.37,"text":"他先是提到中國的這個戰略機遇及風險挑戰並存要時刻準備經受這個驚濤駭浪的一個重大考驗後續所涉及台灣的相關內容則是提到要深入貫徹解決台灣問題的這個總體方略以及深入兩岸交流合作那也再次的強調要堅決打擊"},{"start":3710.511,"end":3735.519,"text":"所謂的這個台獨勢力等等那看起來還是延續今年兩會的一個對談政策的論述那同樣圍繞在這個反獨促統的一個主調那我想請教局長怎麼樣來評估習近平這次講話所代表的相關意涵那所謂深入貫徹對台政策的總體方略是否代表會有進一步的一個策略或動作"},{"start":3736.379,"end":3754.568,"text":"對 我想中共對台政策它最總體的目標還是在於併吞台灣稍微 像沒有中華民國那它在這次的講話大概就像委員剛剛所提到的它大概是重申它既有的基調也就是三個重點第一個反獨第二個觸同觸容第三個就是反對外力介入"},{"start":3755.529,"end":3771.589,"text":"在相關的一個操作手法上也不外是合佔兩手策略的交互運用只是它的一個操作有看到一些些微的變化在應的一手的方面 佔的一手的方面持續的透過複合式各種的一個脅迫來對台灣加壓"},{"start":3773.311,"end":3796.843,"text":"那另外也透過統戰深透來分化我們內部對於一些議題的一個分裂來割裂台灣社會的一個內聚力那不過在核的這一手比較有看到一些調整也就是說傳統上他會透過一些私會利誘的措施來吸引台商的資金寄宿到中國大陸去不過這幾年確實因為中國大陸在經濟發展的整個的一個速度是有趨緩的狀況"},{"start":3797.904,"end":3815.131,"text":"所以這部分我們看到中國大陸在內部檢討上也認為似乎還需要再進一步的加強那特別聚焦在台灣比較高科技的產業所以對於中共的一個對台政策的總體目標還有相關的策略手段方法我們會持續來關注除了它既有的一些做法以外有沒有一些新的太陽的出現"},{"start":3815.871,"end":3844.361,"text":"好 那有關這個促統促容剛剛局長您也大概提了一下那近期我們民眾也非常關心這個民主團結進步促進法在這個7月1號已經開始實施了那在4月份巡討的時候我也曾經跟局長您初步討論過當時局長您提醒到這一部法律會有中共的一個操作三戰的一個手法也讓中共第一線的這個執法人員有很大的權限"},{"start":3844.921,"end":3865.032,"text":"使民眾無端入罪那後續我們也看到包括美國日本還有歐盟等這個先進的國家都發聲來譴責行政院也研議跨部會的因應措施那這部分我想請教局長是這個國際友盟對於這個民主團結法的反應和對應的相關措施是什麼"},{"start":3865.712,"end":3879.467,"text":"那有沒有可能暫停與中國之間的一個引渡條約而我們在這個嚴查管制在地協力者以及強化國際合作上能夠採取哪些更有效的一個作為"},{"start":3880.699,"end":3903.908,"text":"謝委員的提問我想中共的民族團結進步促進法它主要就是用民族主義來包裝中國大陸在現階段他們的一些對內跟對外的還有對台的一些政策主要看到的一個重點是在於透過這些法律工具的運用來加強中共對內的控制對外來擴張它的脅迫對台來推動反獨"},{"start":3907.049,"end":3923.261,"text":"觸同觸容所以這大概是他民族傳結促進法一個主要的一個訴求那在國際上對於這方面非常的關注因為他已經有點像是在進行所謂的跨域的鎮壓跟脅迫那打破了傳統的這種主權國家疆界的一個反理"},{"start":3923.621,"end":3944.609,"text":"那國際社會這個部分包括美歐國家都高度的關注也提出了一些譴責那比較具體的做法有在評估那是不是要終止跟中共的引渡協定這個部分是在歐洲歐盟有這樣的一個討論那另外對於中共執行這個法律的相關的官員要不要進行制裁那這大概是目前國際社會"},{"start":3945.589,"end":3971.983,"text":"理念相近國家有採取比較具體動作的一個相關的一個動向那我想就台灣來講我們還是要警示在這些法律工具運用之後對於我們國人可能負入的人身安全要特別的注意我們是主權國家絕對不會容許中共的這一套法律在台灣來對我們施加壓力這是不可能的但是我們必須要提醒跟警示當我們的國人到對岸去的話那要注意人身安全因為他的法律"},{"start":3972.503,"end":4000.239,"text":"在界定上包括什麼叫做破壞民主的團結這個定義太模糊了那會讓他們的行政機關跟司法機關有很多解釋的空間那另外是在2024年的7月因為中共他有頒布所謂的國安機關行政措施執行的一個規定那也授權了他們的國安機關執法人員可以對於一般的民眾或外國旅客來進行盤查扣押或是查看你的自通訊的一個設備"},{"start":4000.979,"end":4014.154,"text":"所以因為有這樣的一個問題在,所以也利用這個機會,謝委員的提問我們來跟民眾說明,到中國大道去有這樣的一個風險存在,可能去之前要做必要的評估另外就是要討論剛剛局長您所說的這個部分"},{"start":4014.758,"end":4036.269,"text":"中共可能會採取的監控手段在今年這個五月有一則外媒報導引述中國的這個資安組織的資料很明確的顯示對於在中國的境外人士包括這個外籍旅客配偶學生以及記者都被納入一個名為境外人員動態管控能力平台系統"},{"start":4037.025,"end":4063.484,"text":"那在這一個系統當中中國政府可以透過整合各項的數據包括這個監視影像消費紀錄網路的足跡等等能夠即使掌握境外人士在中國境內的位置甚至拼湊出人際網路達到全方位的一個監控追蹤那對於中共現行可能採取的監控系統國安局有什麼樣的一個評估而這類型的針對行為和認知"},{"start":4065.365,"end":4091.512,"text":"所建構的這個數位監控網對於我們個人還有國家安全可能存在什麼樣的一個風險這部分是請局長簡要說明一下這部分中國的那個數位監控它可以說是全面性的系統性的對於外國旅客或境內的人士來進行必要的監控那委員剛剛有提到的是血量工程血量工程它比較強調是把民間的這些監視系統來做一個必要的整合"},{"start":4091.992,"end":4109.332,"text":"那另外還有一個天眼工程天眼工程主要是中國官方政府的相關的監控系統資訊的統合所以他透過天眼系統跟他的血量工程可以把整個中國相關的一個數位監控的網絡跟機制來建立那他大概的一個做法有包括到民眾入境他在機場"},{"start":4110.914,"end":4128.295,"text":"相關的一個入境的一些生物跡證的一個辨識也包括到你入住旅館你的那個消費的一個記錄那另外再配合到數位監控你的手機的定位也可以知道你的足跡再透過我們剛剛講的天眼工程跟血量工程特別是血量工程"},{"start":4128.735,"end":4142.651,"text":"的這些各地的監視系統他也可以來做一些比對來確認你相關的足跡以及你的各種刷卡或是車船票券購買的紀錄可以了解你的相關的一個動態那特別"},{"start":4143.612,"end":4172.657,"text":"包括他們還引進比較智能化的可以透過人不只是臉的生物跡證的辨識包括你走路的姿態樣態也都融入到他整個智能化的這種監控的網絡當中所以這也是為什麼我們剛剛在提醒假如到中國大道去的話你假如有可能涉及到中國所謂的這些法規那中國運用法規來對你進行相關的監控的話那你可能會處在一個國家級的一個監控系統的網絡那這也是為什麼剛剛在提醒婦女要注意到相關的人身安全"},{"start":4173.356,"end":4189.695,"text":"好 那這部分就請我們國安局及相關單位密切掌握相關的情勢也強化我們跨部會還有我們與國際友盟的合作能夠確實來保障我們國家及我們國人的安全"},{"start":4189.895,"end":4211.224,"text":"也跟委員說明一下怎麼樣應應中共這一類的跨境鎮壓的手法那現在已經大概是國際情報界大家關注的議題那根據非正式統計大概中共跨境鎮壓所施加的國家的對象大概有41國散布在全球各大洲所以這變成是一個熱點議題我們會持續的透過國際的情報交流來分享相關的情緒好 謝謝局長好 謝謝"},{"start":4218.103,"end":4221.065,"text":"接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請蔡局長請蔡局長"},{"start":4239.693,"end":4255.062,"text":"台灣近年來受到新興毒品的毒害尤其是最近我們看到毒價肇事的新聞是頻傳所以在上個月的時候行政院我們卓院長就提出了三大面向十四項作為"},{"start":4257.603,"end":4276.467,"text":"要來全力棄毒跟這嚴懲這個獨家那我們當然期待政府的雷力風行那也予以肯定可是我們到目前為止看到台灣在面對毒品問題的時候我們還是停留在這個毒品的查緝啦司法啦還有這個公共衛生或是治安的這個層面那對於這個毒品"},{"start":4279.628,"end":4300.667,"text":"有沒有拉到這個國安層級到時今天是國安局的這個報告我們才比較首次有接觸到就是說這毒品的問題其實是跟這個國家的安全是有關係的那可是在國際當中我們看到毒品的討論其實早就已經聚焦在國安跟社會韌性等相關的這個議題尤其是川普"},{"start":4301.187,"end":4317.935,"text":"川普他有宣布這個芬太尼是大規模毀滅性的武器然後將這個芬太尼升級作為化學戰等級的國家威脅那我們有看到就是說每一年有11.2萬的美國人死於這個藥物過量其中大部分都是來自於芬太尼"},{"start":4320.015,"end":4341.503,"text":"這個氾濫與美國境內的芬太尼其實有很多的這個前驅化學品原料主要都是來自於中國所以美國的國安體系呢早就視為一種特定國家暗中放任用以削弱美國基層國力的超限戰的這個手段甚至呢還有媒體呢把這個芬太尼定為這個21世紀的這個新鴉片戰爭那回到我們剛剛"},{"start":4348.579,"end":4362.93,"text":"法務部呢他有提到就是說像這個我國的這個四級毒品先驅原料在114年中國大陸呢就走勢進來了百分之九十一點"},{"start":4364.931,"end":4387.719,"text":"也就是說在一百一十四年其中很多的毒品原料我們查獲的這個公斤數是一萬兩千八十一公斤可是有高達一萬一千五百五十六公斤是來自於中國也就是超過九成以上來自於中國所以對於這個"},{"start":4389.608,"end":4400.098,"text":"美國或是歐美國家的把這個毒品列為國家安全在台灣從這個我們查獲到的毒品量"},{"start":4401.321,"end":4428.277,"text":"幾乎是有這個即視感即視感所以我就想說想請教局長那對於我們國安的這個情質來看的話對於歐美國家所憂慮的這可能是一個21世紀的新鴉片戰爭這個部分的話在台灣在氣毒方面我們在情質方面有沒有這一方面的這個狀況尤其有90%以上都是來自於中國請問局長"},{"start":4429.734,"end":4452.007,"text":"對 我想同意委員的一個分析也就是說毒品的問題它不應該單單只是所謂的施法查緝的反毒的案件因為拉高層次它有涉及到社會安全的問題它有涉及到國人健康的問題那它也有可能上升到國家安全的議題那就像剛剛委員很正確的指出來那川普政府在2025年跟2026年的"},{"start":4454.628,"end":4470.048,"text":"國家情報總監的相關的國安威脅的報告那都把毒品連續兩年都列為是一個重要的一個國家安全威脅來源那我想這樣子的一個處理毒品的一個角度我想我們也可以來除了了解以外也可以來"},{"start":4471.57,"end":4495.843,"text":"引進他們這樣的一個觀念所以也在我們的撰報當中有跟委員們做報告我們國安局因為是國安情報機關因為在司法的偵辦的部分主要是由檢方台高檢他來指揮調度所有的司法警察警察機關那國安局因為是國安情報機關所以我們主要還是從國安的情報的角度來掌握到毒品在區域裡面它相關的一個流入"},{"start":4496.523,"end":4518.873,"text":"以及可能的一個來源另外在國境安全的防護上有哪些可能它輸入的管道不管是海空運貨物的一個夾帶還是海上的一個船舶的走私或是相關的國際郵包的遞送這些手法的樣態我們跟國安情報機關大概都有很密集的討論尤其這一陣子因為國內對這問題很關注我們才又召開了我們國安情報團隊的一個會議"},{"start":4524.395,"end":4551.133,"text":"怎麼樣來加強這一部分的一個查查跟資訊的分享那另外早上有跟媒體朋友在說明怎麼樣引進科技徵收的手段那也是國安局這邊希望能夠著力比較深一點的那因為不管是在毒品的資訊的流通在暗網上那它有很多的資訊的討論那這部分我們怎麼樣能夠來做相關的部署進入到暗網裡面去了解或是判斷留言者的身份那這也是未來努力的一個方向"},{"start":4551.593,"end":4570.16,"text":"那另外包括到我們的反毒課程裡面也私訊我們的國安情報團隊來操作無人機那今年的課程會開設在九月份那也希望透過這些科技手段的徵收能夠來提升那我們相關國安情報機關裡面具有司法警察權的單位他在執法上的量能"},{"start":4571.357,"end":4589.07,"text":"好 謝謝局長那局長剛剛也是有提到就是說其實對於毒品我們著重的還是流入還有這個毒品的這個來源等等那本期想要請教其實就是說剛剛一開始就提到的像美國國安體系呢他就有認為說這可能是一種"},{"start":4589.89,"end":4606.858,"text":"特定國家暗中方認用以削弱美國基層國力的超限戰手段怎麼說呢其實局長剛剛有稍微有大略提了一下那毒品呢會讓我們青年的人口健康惡化對嘛對不對那再來呢他可能呢也會"},{"start":4607.818,"end":4627.459,"text":"對於我們醫療資源方面可能會大量的這個消耗這是我是從一個專題裡面我看到其實這是很讓人擔心的一個問題那再來呢它可能會滑解這個社會的這個結構甚至影響到你的後備的這個戰力它是慢慢的消耗你這個國家"},{"start":4628.973,"end":4644.288,"text":"的一些能量這是我們要特別去注意的這個地方除了毒品查緝之外國家安全這個部分可能就是我們要特別留意的這個地方"},{"start":4645.089,"end":4661.361,"text":"歐美國家其實都已經在做這方面的留意了那台灣為什麼我會說法務部他的統計資料讓我們有這個即時感你看他有百分之九十以上的先驅原料是來自於中國那當然我們可能要有一些考量"},{"start":4663.068,"end":4681.561,"text":"這除了可能是 也是屬於一個政治作戰的一種模式 一種灰色滲透的一種方式除了我們所認為的這個軍演 海上的這個侵擾等等或者是資訊的這個滲透之外 假訊息的這個滲透之外"},{"start":4684.403,"end":4702.701,"text":"因為這毒品會不會也是屬於他們的滲透的一種方式呢?消耗國家能量的一種方式呢?所以我在想為什麼這個應該要拉到國安成員局?今天主席今天安排這個主題其實是蠻正向的一個方向為什麼會邀請國安局?我想"},{"start":4704.302,"end":4719.027,"text":"這個應該是國人所憂心的一個方向到底毒品問題是不是只有司法的查緝或是調查權或是司法法治的問題其實不是可能就是已經拉高到國安"},{"start":4719.987,"end":4746.223,"text":"我想相關議題事實上在內政委會也討論過不過在那邊的討論可能比較聚焦在的是司法偵辦跟查緝的相關的進度我覺得就國安的角度來講因為中共現在對台的複合式威脅就像委員剛剛所提到的可能包括到軍事的施壓經濟的一個脅迫 治安的侵害還有假訊息認知作戰的操作以及對我們內部的統戰滲透那現在假如說再加上有毒品的一個滲透的話"},{"start":4746.843,"end":4762.37,"text":"那它可能會形成是一個總體上複合式的對於台灣國家安全跟社會安全的一個衝擊那也謝謝委員提醒我們後續再分析中共的對台複合式的脅迫手段當中我們會把這一部分列入相關的一個評估OK好 以上謝謝 謝謝局長謝謝接下來請陳永康委員上台質詢"},{"start":4780.719,"end":4791.265,"text":"主席 又請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長謝謝主席 初仁早局長早"},{"start":4792.553,"end":4812.435,"text":"今天的這個討論的題目我想就從國安層級來看目前看到的影響國家安全治安公共安全的衝擊社會資源還有健保的負擔青年世代剛才你也提到了如果這種不能控制的話是變成國力的衰退是一個很嚴肅的問題"},{"start":4813.756,"end":4823.426,"text":"那麼國境安全的壓力那我特別要從這個國內挑戰的部分來三個面向請局長做點回應在技術面法規面"},{"start":4825.796,"end":4848.095,"text":"這個戰情整合面那我們特別看那個紅字的部分我想就請局長就這個紅字的部分您做一個說明目前我們在如何強化因為剛剛已經在整合的問題上面填到了我們的能力但是長遠看量能需要有更大的投資跟整合跨部會我想您是不是就紅色部分您做一個回應"},{"start":4849.146,"end":4866.777,"text":"那在那個所謂技術面法規面跟戰情整合面那特別是在戰情整合面那怎麼樣除了從歷來查緝的個案當中去整理出他的犯罪的手法跟樣態這大概是國安局從國安情報的角度當中可以做一些貢獻的"},{"start":4867.617,"end":4883.624,"text":"那另外是在整體的區域的毒品的相關的一個傳散的一個流入那各個國家他們在分析這個毒品的流入過程當中有沒有看到一些新的趨勢那這部分我們會透過國際情報交流的方式來掌握相關的動態那再反過來跟我們國內的國安情報機關特別是有司法檢察權的國安情報機關來交換相關的意見"},{"start":4892.668,"end":4908.204,"text":"那在技術面剛剛也跟羅美玲委員有稍微說明一下科技徵收手段不管在暗網的徵收或是其他的反毒包括無人機的一個運用那這部分也是我們在努力的一個重點那大概簡要的跟委員做以上的說明"},{"start":4908.864,"end":4926.974,"text":"提出一個補充建議因為從技術面看因為很多我們需要跟地方的醫學中心做合作事實上每一個大的醫學院醫學中心他們有一個很好的資料庫你可以了解到醫院裡面不同等級的"},{"start":4927.734,"end":4957.277,"text":"主治医师主任大夫或者是甚至是护理人员他根据他的个人的安全核定的层级他可以进到去看病例去看他的背景看资料这个部分是不是我们将来在这方面需要跟这个医学院强化一些合作因为完全仰赖我们这个警检的中心或者做调查里面对这些毒品的专业分析有些实际上是超过我们的人力负荷"},{"start":4957.697,"end":4977.282,"text":"好 謝委員提醒我們也來注意一下醫療中心裡面對於相關這些數據案例的整體的分析好 謝謝那下面一個是不是我們請這個調查局的連副局長請調查局副局長"},{"start":4986.172,"end":4999.623,"text":"我還是同樣提出就是說我們在做這個反毒的情境狀況下我們有官方甚至跟對岸的有在這個反毒的上面還是要有合作的空間一方面我們又"},{"start":5001.104,"end":5024.774,"text":"要顾虑到对方面用毒品的渗透这是一个大面向但是另外就是小面向的执法上面你又跟对方还要有合作还是要在边境在小山通你要出去做集合司法跟情资上我们有落差这个部分您可不可以做一个解释就是像我们第二条的红字部分"},{"start":5027.827,"end":5043.105,"text":"跟委員報告,就是有關兩岸的這個情資往來部分其實我們只要有發現案件的情資有涉及到大陸的部分的話我們都會積極的就是透過我們的管道傳證到大陸去,請他們來協助來協辦"},{"start":5045.882,"end":5074.239,"text":"那如果在管轄权跟法规上有落差那在互相的沟通过程中会不会有解读这个双方意识不能够达到一种共识这个方法那我们的发现有一些从大陆渗透小三通带这个毒品过来但是我们回应到对方时候对方没有在他启动就是说反国之前就做集合那我们是被动接招这种方法有没有强化的空间"},{"start":5075.781,"end":5087.836,"text":"跟委員報告目前我們情資往來部分其實我們有很多情資到大陸去之後那目前大陸都沒有積極的回應所以我們也是希望透過各種管道來共同來打擊這個毒品犯罪"},{"start":5090.12,"end":5106.696,"text":"我想在引渡或共同审判面临政治上跟法律的双重考验一方面它是否定你的存在二方面但是我们也有些情知证明它内部也有一些贩毒的问题我们也可以做一个回溯在这个方面是不是可以点强化的空间"},{"start":5107.338,"end":5130.192,"text":"是那委員所建議的這部分我們回去會請法務部這邊來積極的跟委員回應調局主要是針對這個打擊毒品犯罪為主是我想今天的問題主要是以國安的角度是從政策面大的格局來看這個問題他並不只單止於就是說我們每年激獲多少量這個一二三等"},{"start":5131.112,"end":5148.867,"text":"各種級的最主要就是要強化我們內部不能夠再被毒品的滲透我想在這個理念上面我們大家有共同努力合作的空間那最後是不是請局長再做一個總結就是對我們今天這個議題上面強化這個合作的空間跨部會合作的空間"},{"start":5149.728,"end":5169.637,"text":"我想反毒的問題他已經慢慢的從這種個案的司法案件的偵辦變成是一個社會治安社會安全那再提升到國家安全的一個層級那當然到這部分他可能還有涉及到除了有一些相關樣態的掌握以外資源的投入也會非常的重要否則"},{"start":5170.137,"end":5196.437,"text":"我們有一些因應那個新的一些販毒的手法跟網絡那你要有更多的資源跟更多的人力的投入才有辦法能夠形成一個我們國內的一個反毒的一個防線所以這部分我想行政院在之前也有宣布一些比較具體的措施那這部分假如有需要我們國安單位來做配合我們會全力的支援用情報來支援我們的司法的查查以及用情報來支援我們反毒系統的一個建置"},{"start":5198.055,"end":5215.011,"text":"今天這個議題是需要我們全國同胞共同努力不能再讓這種毒品在國內消耗我們的民心士氣迫害社會團結尤其是像這毒價造成的結果對民心的傷害太大我們要共同努力好 謝謝委員 謝謝接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢"},{"start":5239.979,"end":5241.104,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請蔡局長請蔡局長"},{"start":5249.635,"end":5271.427,"text":"局長早安 首先我先來問一下一個時事題就是今天媒體有特別報導就是我想7月1號這個中共的民族團結促進法實施到現在今天媒體剛好報導了 就是對台灣民眾來講其實拒統 也就是拒絕跟中國統一的人數反而飆了新高來到了61.7%"},{"start":5274.068,"end":5277.93,"text":"那麼這個是過去針對這個媒體根據陸委會的這個整個就是他們的這個報導來可以發現從2015年持續到2016年來我們所看到的一個狀況可以看得出來就是中國的糖衣毒藥想用經濟或者是各種手段來企圖拉攏台灣但是可以發現其實效果並不大因為其實台灣人民已經識破了包括今天有"},{"start":5299.38,"end":5323.599,"text":"媒體也報導連德國的所謂隱形冠軍也被中國的傾銷受到影響所以就有學者提醒中共為什麼會在7月1號現在又提出所謂的民族團結促進法的原因就在於是不是要用恫嚇的方式讓台灣人民或者是全世界支持台灣的聲音在自我內心的小警總來變成是說那麼"},{"start":5326.741,"end":5354.941,"text":"雖然我內心我不想要跟中國統一但是現在有一個所謂法律而且是延伸到全世界可能接下來他連外星人都要管全宇宙連外星人都不可以來支持因為反正中國就是自己制定的法律自己玩那麼當然我們也知道許多台灣民眾可能不信他們這一套但問題就來了這會不會是變成一種無形的恐嚇變成是說不論是台灣民眾又或者是國際上的友人不敢明白的支持台灣"},{"start":5355.461,"end":5372.477,"text":"我要強調喔 基本上包括我們國防外交的委員你拿著中華民國的護照出國這個算不算違反了民族團結促進法理念因為你說台灣是一個國家啊我們都知道護照就是一個主權的延伸啊那像這樣的一個狀況請問國安局怎麼來看現在從7月1號實施到現在的這個所謂民族團結促進法對於台灣的影響"},{"start":5378.763,"end":5393.771,"text":"我想那個民主團結促進法它的公佈跟施行主要還是中共它運用法律的工具來加強對內的控制以及對台灣來進行所謂反毒促統的施壓那運用這種所謂的法律的脅迫造成寒藏效應"},{"start":5395.812,"end":5417.242,"text":"讓我們在跟兩岸互動過程當中可能要更注意到這種國家安全可能產生的一個衝擊所以剛剛也在跟陳俊永委員做說明了那中共他大概對台總體的目標很清楚就是併吞台灣消滅我們國家主權的一個地位那手法上不外就是合佔兩手的一個交互的操作跟施壓"},{"start":5417.842,"end":5445.007,"text":"那剛剛我事實上跟陳俊偉說明了跟委員剛剛的觀察還蠻接近的也就是說他在核戰兩手的施壓上因為在經濟的利誘跟撕毀的部分他自己本身經濟處在比較低檔的狀況效果並沒有那麼好可是他為了要呈現對台的工作成果反倒在複合式的威脅施壓不管是軍事的恫嚇啦或是認知作戰的操作假訊息的滲透等等還有治安的侵害這部分看起來好像動作反倒是越來越多"},{"start":5445.427,"end":5470.567,"text":"這也是為什麼委員有提到根據我們陸委會的一個民調顯示台灣這邊大概反對被統一或希望維持現狀的聲量比例越來越高那可能跟中共在操作手法上面也有直接的關係那當然我們在很多公開場合包括委員的立法院的這種提問跟我們的說明那也能夠讓我們社會大眾對這方面有更多的社會意識跟知覺的建立"},{"start":5471.388,"end":5494.651,"text":"所以我們其實最重要的還是要把他們的手法揭露那麼現在我就來揭露一個這個是臥草所提出來的一個調查報導他特別提到的是就選在選舉之前開始出現了所謂的臉書粉絲團的換皮養號甚至於進入到人設工程的一個變化那就是"},{"start":5496.074,"end":5515.106,"text":"這麼巧就有舊粉專直接換皮而且在同樣一個時間點內死而復生但是他改了名字之後開始針對特定的政治人物來做PO文那我們都知道嘛有的時候你是生活的 娛樂的 旅遊的但是突然間在"},{"start":5516.347,"end":5532.956,"text":"差不多的時間點有兩個帳號甚至於是同一天只差一分鐘然後換皮之後重新翻出然後開始進行政治文但他非常厲害的是他來幫忙包裝的是國民黨的政治人物而且他走軟性然後去養他的人設但重點就來了不只是換皮然後養號然後"},{"start":5540.12,"end":5558.945,"text":"把這些粉絲留住但是用政治溫情的人設包裝重點是居然還錯誤都一樣這一位國民黨政治人物他的太太的名字不好寫就是蔣萬安的太太的夫人的名字不好寫結果在發文的時候居然通通都錯在他的名字的第三個字"},{"start":5559.965,"end":5573.015,"text":"那像這種錯誤居然可以同時發生重點是這幾個帳號的管理員都來自於境外也就是香港那麼我想問一下國安局是不是有看到這篇報導對於這種臉書粉絲團可能介入選舉而且幫特定人物做人物的所謂培養的工程那麼像這樣的狀況國安局怎麼看"},{"start":5586.139,"end":5610.857,"text":"這部分我們一直都有在關注那委員應該也有注意到我們在年初就公布中共涉台對台的一個認知作戰操作的手法那委員剛剛所說明的大概都是相關手法很傳統的一些動作這包括到把一些粉專在平時用的是比較軟性議題來吸引更多的圈粉的一個加入這個粉專那但是他也會不定時的在透過有些政治人物的動態"},{"start":5611.577,"end":5629.08,"text":"那逐漸的來讓粉專習慣這個粉專除了軟性議題以外也慢慢會有些政治議題那背後我們比較關注的除了剛剛委員說明到有這些所謂舊粉專換皮或是同時啟動這些帳號來養號的情況之下我們特別關注的是背後有沒有中共的一個操作"},{"start":5629.42,"end":5650.609,"text":"因為我們在我們的年度報告也提到中共它有很多外圍的資安公司跟公關公司他們是很大規模的在操作這些所謂的特定的粉專那也可以用比較AI智能化的方式來塑造這些所謂我們的異常帳號那我們所謂的異常帳號就包括委員所提到的它的一個帳號的經營者可能身份都不明確"},{"start":5651.309,"end":5678.395,"text":"那另外可能他的一個位置的定位也常常會做一些改變那再來就是他所傳承的內容可能有時候還會配合到中國的官宣、媒宣來做必要議題的一個精準的一個打擊那以便在台灣內部社會討論的時候可以去帶相關的風向那這樣的一個操作手法到了選舉越來越接近會不會有更系統性、全面性的操作那我們會持續的來注意那也會適時的來做必要的揭露"},{"start":5678.775,"end":5701.208,"text":"因為我們知道現在Meta基本上他們在有關於社群上面的個資他會以這個為名來做保護那麼多數的時候如果你去要求的時候他不一定會給你除非他認定為是所謂重大的犯罪那麼在這個部分我們跟其他的友邦甚至於這種事沒有落地台灣"},{"start":5702.048,"end":5723.137,"text":"的跨境公司有辦法取得資料而你們在所謂協防這個所謂國家安全的時候是有取得一定的資料上面的互通嗎好這部分事實上因為選舉快到了我們大概有做一些事前的一個部署第二部分就像委員所講的假如說他的那些傳承的資訊是違法的我們當然就會通報到司法檢查機關來跟平台業者調取他的IP帳號然後來確認這個IP到底是境內或境外"},{"start":5731.28,"end":5747.641,"text":"那假如在境內的話我們當然就啟動偵辦那在境外的部分我們大概在年初本局這邊也建立一個機制假如它的境外的IP的那個帳號有掌握的話我們是有跟電信業者達成了一個機制我們會進行封住"},{"start":5748.061,"end":5771.651,"text":"那而且對於這些違法的樣態本局有大概羅列出九種的違法樣態那只要符合這九種違法樣態又掌握他的IP位置境內的我們就是查辦、法辦境外的我們就進行相關專屬IP的封鎖那所以希望透過這樣的方式可以有一個機制來應處到了選舉期間大規模的這些可能的異常帳號對於這些輿情或認知作戰的操作"},{"start":5771.991,"end":5778.699,"text":"好 本期要提醒的就是像這樣子是一種另外一種形式的糖衣毒藥也是另外一種養套殺因為它從頭到尾沒有負面訊息那麼你說幫這個特定的政治人物做所謂的形象工程這個有沒有涉及到介入台灣的選舉它也走在一種灰色跟模糊地帶"},{"start":5792.515,"end":5808.03,"text":"那麼只能說它是來自於香港跟中國有非常直接關聯的而這個部分如何去界定恐怕也就是要請局長跟國安單位來特別注意我們的第九類主要是針對腳踏的傳扇是涉及到社會安定跟秩序的"},{"start":5808.41,"end":5824.936,"text":"那我們就可以啟動這個機制不過政務委員所講的腳踏的手法是非常的隱晦而且又沒有達到所謂影響到社會安全穩定的話我們在查處上確實會比較不容易那不過他可能也有涉及到在競選過程當中有沒有違反那個選罷法的規定"},{"start":5826.317,"end":5854.856,"text":"那所以各個選舉陣營也可以針對這一部分在持續的來注意或進行那個通報那就我們來講我們會把這樣的樣態來揭露讓我們選民跟民眾可以了解這事實上背後可能是有一個政治目的的傳扇以及對於這種輿情操作的認知作戰的手法把它揭露出來讓民眾在這一部分的所謂的媒體嗜讀的能力能夠更加提升避免到中國在認知作戰的過程當中我們的心理韌性不夠這一部分我們來加強揭露好 謝謝"},{"start":5859.478,"end":5863.22,"text":"謝謝接下來請劉許廷委員上台質詢謝謝主席 國安局長有請請蔡局長各位委員長局長早安現在毒品越來越猖獗引起社會巨大的動盪算不算一個國安管轄的範圍之一"},{"start":5885.831,"end":5904.406,"text":"對 我們剛剛有講 因為這司法偵辦是屬於高檢署那我們就國安情報機關來講我們大概是用情報來支援相關的一個反毒的查緝所以就是其實無時無刻都要協助嘛 對不對那一般來講 從常理上大家來談這樣的事情的時候通常都希望比如說情報 尤其是國安局這個層級可以掌握的情報 大概就是"},{"start":5905.106,"end":5925.942,"text":"可能是針對比較特殊的一個樣態嘛譬如說我們要了解現在台灣的毒品的狀況譬如說最近當然流行的喪屍煙彈 依托米紙這一部分請問它是一個這種個體去中心化的一個方式來在台灣蔓延呢還是說譬如說它有背後有一個特定的比如說跨國的毒梟或者特定的黑道在圍飾然後以致我必須要用跨國聯合的情報"},{"start":5926.622,"end":5932.066,"text":"跟跨國查緝的方式來做處理它比較屬於哪一種形態以關於目前的掌握這部分我們當然是從國內的查獲的這些毒品包括委員所提到的依託米子的狀況來做一些分析跟判斷那以成品來講大概是東南亞進來"},{"start":5941.673,"end":5955.06,"text":"但是以先驅原料來講目前看到的特別是調查局的統計大概是從對岸中國大陸進來那因為他的先驅原料依托米子酸進來之後再重新做化學的加工組合他會變成所謂的所謂的喪屍煙彈或是水煙或電子煙"},{"start":5957.661,"end":5973.357,"text":"這一個的流入到反倒是目前可能社會大眾因為獨家問題所引發的關注你講的都是大家都知道的事情嘛但我要問的是這樣嘛就是說這背後這整個它是一個集團在操作嗎還是說它就是分散成很多小的各自的團來處理"},{"start":5976.5,"end":6000.019,"text":"兩種都有可能啦你說他當然進來的管道有的是透過海貨運的一個夾帶那有的是透過國際郵報那看起來是零散的但你也不能排除背後是有一個集團在做全面的操作所以兩種途徑所以今天大家就講了國安局期待有角色嘛也就是說利用你的不管是國際上的共同打擊犯罪的情報之間的情報網路的合作或者是其他的部分來做更清楚的一個掌握"},{"start":6000.339,"end":6005.006,"text":"那目前為止這件事情國安局掌握到什麼樣的程度可以跟大家做一下報告嗎"},{"start":6005.54,"end":6034.78,"text":"對 所以我們剛剛跟委員說明的就大概是在於說以中國大陸來講它大概是第一個它是主要的那個先驅原料的一個來源嘛那第二個它的進來的管道大概有剛剛跟委員講的那兩層類型那但是進來再往後追溯的話它涉及到中國大陸境內它相關法案罪集團的一個查查那因為這一部分因為剛剛貂局也在說明我們把相關的資訊跟對岸來做通報對岸並沒有積極的回應所以利用這個機會呼應對岸應該要正視這個問題OK 好 所以一時半刻"},{"start":6035.88,"end":6050.926,"text":"恐怕也很難再往下踩下去,意思是這樣子嗎?對,在中國境內的管轄現在看起來,謝謝局長的說明這我們請法務部跟警政署,我們就一起來看吧請法務部、警政署"},{"start":6052.04,"end":6070.039,"text":"現在看起來在大家關心的喪屍煙彈依托彌子這樣的一個狀況以政府機關提供的相關報告跟資訊來說大體上就是原料走私然後在台製造大概是用這樣子的一個形式來做處理那講白了今天大家去談我們要怎麼樣去做打擊就是你能不能分別針對這兩條管道比如說"},{"start":6071.781,"end":6093.506,"text":"我從某一種我用某一種特殊的手段我徹底禁絕了走私原料的各種可能性對不對我讓你沒有原料可以那當然就沒有製造的問題那另外一個是這個大家也知道嘛這如果走私這麼好防堵啊今天社會會比想像中太平非常多但現實往往是比較殘酷一點的所以說走私很難完全杜絕的情況之下那當然就是你國內嘛我怎麼樣能夠把製造的"},{"start":6094.546,"end":6117.977,"text":"這個管道跟它的通路把它通通掐斷現在我們的政府誰回答都可以因為這就各有各的分工管轄嘛對不對我們現在是主要主力是放在打擊走私原料還是說打擊國內製造分別做出什麼樣的成果那個委員好 跟委員報告吼調查局從去年到今年為止查獲的一托米之類總共有22案"},{"start":6119.039,"end":6146.539,"text":"那他查物的方式呢有那個夾帶走私的有在國內製造的那類型部分旅客夾帶的有13案國內製造的有6案還有快遞包裹的有3案他的來源地呢成品的部分大部分馬來西亞有9件然後這個報告上的大家都看得到就不用多說了是但是那個伊托彬子的原料真的都是來自於大陸的是啊那你打算怎麼防堵我要聽的是防堵的策略吧是"},{"start":6147.179,"end":6175.256,"text":"如果說伊托彬子這種先去原料部分我們只要有發舉就即時提報到獨省會來列管為第四級的毒品因為大陸對這些原料來講他說是用化學品來管制他不是毒品管制所以呢他們那邊取得非常容易那我們這裡獨省會提列為第四級毒品之後我們就會積極的配合海關還有海巡署各單位我們進行查辦當我們這邊把它列為毒品之後正常管道他們就不能進來了嘛對不對那我們有多大能耐完全封堵走失這條路目前成果怎麼樣"},{"start":6176.258,"end":6200.679,"text":"我們會積極的查辦 目前來講因為各種方式進來的管道非常的多那只要我們申辦一個案子在媒體上有說明是用什麼方式查獲的話那毒梟那邊他們就會有各種不同的方式尤其剛才有在專題報告裡面有報告我們只要查體列為第四級毒品的先驅原料大陸那邊就會馬上改變它的化學式對 我等一下會跟你討論這個事情就是說這個毒品列管空窗級的問題 這我們等一下來做說明"},{"start":6201.86,"end":6214.982,"text":"但看起來打擊走私 你也只能盡量去做嘛因為這個道高一尺 謀高一丈 這本席都理解那麼針對國內製造的部分呢國內製造的 警政署吧 會不會 是不是相關的目前打擊的狀況怎麼樣 有沒有具體的做法"},{"start":6215.444,"end":6241.815,"text":"我們在114年大概查緝的這些大概有一萬兩千多公斤那我們分裝廠大概我們最近大概伊多米子的分裝廠有八十幾處有八十幾處所以這個部分我們在查緝像獨駕的部分我們從5月24號到6月30號有關獨駕的部分我們就查緝了大概就4000多件那今年到1到5月份也確定了大概我們6730件這是"},{"start":6244.696,"end":6255.949,"text":"我們國內那查到以後啊就是溯源我們就會溯源那溯源這一部分就是我們最基本要做的看它的源頭還有銷售管道是如何這部分跟委員報告"},{"start":6256.721,"end":6284.672,"text":"對啊 我這邊資料嘛 就是法務部長這個鄭明堅政部長講反毒活動的時候說近兩年啊 查獲的毒品工廠216處 其中188處跟依託名值有關嘛所以這個顯然國內製造非常猖獗啦就如果你 剛剛我先問了國安局然後我問了調查局 對不對我是先問走私的部分 我不管它源頭從哪裡來你有沒有辦法擋住 聽起來顯然有一些困難 對不對那國內製造的部分 你要想辦法把它擋住那有多大的把握可以全面防堵 還是說"},{"start":6285.825,"end":6311.926,"text":"事實上像高檢署高檢署在案機狀案裡面我們已經掃了13波那在高檢署啟動我們六大企圖機關裡面我們都全力在掃蕩所以這個部分事實上我們不管是掃蕩毒品一般原物料毒品或者是毒價的部分事實上我們現在目前都是全力在積極掃蕩這我理解但我也要跟這個幾位今天列席的所有官員來分享一下"},{"start":6312.626,"end":6336.523,"text":"這個大部分不管是民意調查也好網路調查各式各樣大家都覺得說對政府打擊毒品的信心是不足夠的那麼這個不足夠當然從人民的直接直觀反應來講就是因為罰太輕啊對不對那我今天也不會一開始上來我就講說我們只是只討論刑度的問題我一定是問你有沒有具體的方法今天如果我們政府機關非常的厲害我有什麼樣特殊具體的能耐本事我可以遏制走私或者是我有什麼特殊的通天本領我可以"},{"start":6337.543,"end":6361.537,"text":"掐斷國內所有的製造那我們可以不討論刑罰對不對因為我們從源頭把它全面阻截但顯然你們都盡力了這個我都理解但是還是很困難所以還是要回頭來講大家去談說這個懲罰過輕啊嚇阻效度不足的問題包含最近毒價非常的猖獗現在還要講比如說這個毒價致死好了這個還要累翻致死才能夠處無期徒刑這樣子能夠滿足社會的期望嗎來法務部補充一下吧"},{"start":6366.475,"end":6391.13,"text":"跟委員報告當然刑責不是說適合萬靈藥但是因為它既然列為第一級毒品而且它現在危害性這麼重那我們當然希望能加重它的刑責所以我說就是不夠重嘛對不對當然你講你如果前面講說你有能耐這個打擊毒品防治毒品的話你當然可以講刑度不是萬靈丹這本席都理解也願意尊重但顯然要多管齊下嘛我們當然沒有講說你要把全部的力量放在走私就不管治療不是的"},{"start":6391.65,"end":6421.233,"text":"你能夠用多大的力量打擊這些東西你就打擊嘛但是沒有辦法利有未待的部分你當然要靠處罰嘛所以我是認為這個刑度還是太輕了所以我希望法務部好好檢討這大概司法法治委員會還會經過這個仔細的一個討論我們就不多花時間在這邊那另外是剛剛您提到的就是說有關於這個這個發現一種公告一種的狀況嘛我們現在有某一種毒品特別猖獗我們就把它等級往上調對不對等級往上調之後大家就整個相關的罰則跟查緝的力道也就會相應的來做增加但這畢竟是被動式回應嘛"},{"start":6421.733,"end":6448.024,"text":"我一定是看到哪一些很猖獗 比如說伊托米子特別猖獗上次煙那很猖獗 我才把它升到一級毒品我們永遠都追在毒消後面跑 也不太對啦那也是您剛剛有講的嘛 就是說今天大家說伊托米子很重要 改一個化學式變一個分子式它會變成另外一種新的名詞那這個新的名詞又不在這個毒品範圍內我覺得空窗期是個大問題啦那現在法務部針對這個未來可能的變化因為你講道高一尺 謀高一丈有沒有超前部署的各式各樣的措施跟安排"},{"start":6448.784,"end":6472.246,"text":"各位委員報告所以剛剛在報告裡面有提到有所謂的預警機制那只要它有改變化學式然後如果我們認為可列管可以作為毒品原料的話那你就會提報給獨省會嘛獨省會會在多短的時間內立刻反映獨省會是把它列為第四級的先驅原料但是呢如果還沒有列管之前呢那個預警平台目前已經有提列34種未列管的原料"},{"start":6473.327,"end":6486.424,"text":"讓我們積極來查辦好 這我想喔這個相關的跨部會的合作跟速度跟反應一定要加快嘛是這其他國家當然也有啦就我是針對化學室來進行管制的嘛那當然化學室管制它可能會影響比如說相關的一些藥品或什麼它可能差一點點它會有這個"},{"start":6488.386,"end":6506.858,"text":"濫殺無辜的情況但是我覺得必要的時候 非常的手段也是可以參考的啦希望政府在判斷這樣的事情的時候可以採取雷厲風行的這樣一個手段不管是加重罰則也好或者是針對這個可能的變形要做超前部署不要再讓打擊毒品陷入被動這是本期今天質詢給大家的提醒好 大家辛苦了 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢"},{"start":6520.939,"end":6522.99,"text":"主席好 那有請國安局局長警察局長"},{"start":6532.072,"end":6550.475,"text":"我想今天做這個專報 大家都非常關注因為最近獨駕的事件 造成國人非常大的關注另外 因為教育部不在我想在校園流竄的部分 尤其我們也都是在學校教書問題發覺要趕快來做一些處理"},{"start":6554.329,"end":6571.75,"text":"所以今天特別把這個層次拉到國安局希望國安局來做一些統整也就是說我們看起來這個問題現在也是視同是國安的問題因為這個一開始我們從源頭開始看從國安局的報告裡面我們看到很多原料其實來自於中國"},{"start":6573.812,"end":6595.479,"text":"那當然我們跟中國的特殊關係處理起來就會比較稍微麻煩一點而且剛剛也有其他委員在問就是他的那個化學式、結構式他常常會做一些改變我不曉得國安局針對這個部分尤其是從中國這個可能未來走勢的部分這個部分國安局這邊因應的策略是什麼"},{"start":6596.628,"end":6611.506,"text":"這部分跟委員說明一下事實上政府整體的反毒的查緝是由檢方高檢署在指揮的那我們畢竟是情報機關所以我一直在說明的是我們是用情報的角度來支援政府相關的反毒跟查緝的動作這大概是第一點的說明"},{"start":6611.866,"end":6626.067,"text":"那委員剛剛的問題主要重點是在於說中國大陸已經變成是很多毒品先驅原料的來源那這部分也跟其他委員在說明的時候有做一些補充也就是以目前社會關注的伊托米子它的先驅原料伊托米子酸確實是從中國大陸來的"},{"start":6627.97,"end":6646.835,"text":"那剛剛調查局也在說明我們有相關的一個資訊也有跟對岸來做一些通報但是對岸並沒有積極的來做回應跟處理所以這次怎麼樣在兩岸共打的部分針對毒品的部分也希望對岸能夠正視這個問題的嚴重性那對於我們的一些通報的一個需求也能夠有一些積極的動作來回應"},{"start":6648.335,"end":6665.18,"text":"所以這邊也是希望能夠跟經濟一些所謂的情報的一些來源那另外你們這邊的報告裡面有三大管道不管是海空貨運或是船隻或是包裹不曉得這個部分國安局介入所謂情勢的部分可能的部分大概會怎麼樣來處理"},{"start":6666.26,"end":6681.14,"text":"事實上因為現在社會比較關注那我們在處理這件事情我們必須要釐清楚我們自己本局的法律定位所以剛剛一直在說明偵辦的部分是由高檢署來指揮我們部分是從情報分享的角度"},{"start":6681.5,"end":6700.767,"text":"所以我們事前也有召開一個會議針對我們國安情報單位裡面具有司法警察權的這包括有調查局還有警政署還有海巡署以及我們的縣指部那我們有做一些基本這種目前毒品流入的樣態跟大家做說明報告之後來做一些專責的分工"},{"start":6701.987,"end":6728.784,"text":"所以你就那個調局來講他可能在各個關口或是各種的一個查驗他要扮演其他的角色那檢證署他可能對於各機場或是港口的這種夾帶他也必須要負起查查的動作那海巡當然是對於海域或岸際的走私的查緝那我們縣子部當然是對於軍中毒品的一個流通那也必須要有一些具體的動作所以關局是統合我們11個情報機關裡面具有司法警察權剛剛跟委員報告的四個單位"},{"start":6729.644,"end":6757.367,"text":"來做一些統合跟分工因為我們今天討論新興毒品我們現在當然看到這個上次原來是其中一種不過現在歐盟他們每年這個通報他們大概都會到達40到100種左右所以我的意思是說現在真的就毒品的防治來說情資其實非常重要不管是從前端或是後端那我們剛剛講的大概都是前端後端的部分我看到這個國安局的報告裡面其實有講了很多那剛剛那個我聽到其他委員也特別在講那個所謂的"},{"start":6758.307,"end":6774.374,"text":"這個暗網的這個科技徵收我覺得這部分很重要局長是不是要再跟我們說一下因為過去好像都是由刑事局那邊有一個科技犯罪的房間進來就是這樣子怎麼做協作或是做一些統合就刑事局來講當然他們有相關的一個徵收的技巧好像都是他們在處理"},{"start":6776.095,"end":6784.48,"text":"那本局這邊因為在資訊科技資安的技術也相當有能量大概也會做一些相關的部署畢竟案文裡面很難查嘛"},{"start":6791.744,"end":6815.729,"text":"因為它可能涉及到你能不能取得進入暗網的身份那第二個你在暗網討論的身份也不一定是你的真實身份那可是它在上面又會有一些情資的流通那這部分我們就會透過一些科技徵收的經驗累積做一些判斷那有比較具體事證的我們就會轉交給司法協議機關我覺得國安局介入是會比傳統刑事局這個層次更高一層就是可以針對這個跟暗網對我們這個團隊"},{"start":6818.329,"end":6840.448,"text":"那另外就是那個國際協作啦不曉得這個部分國安局能夠掌握的因為很多我知道剛剛說都是像中國這些原料的國家不曉得那個國際協作上那個局長覺得應該要怎麼樣處理會比較好有國際協作的部分因為調查局他在海外本來就有法務秘書的建制他有一個網絡來跟當地的司法檢查機關做一些資訊的分享"},{"start":6841.269,"end":6855.666,"text":"那就國安局的部分我們也跟各國的安全情報機構也都有非常緊密的合作所以我們也透過國際合作部分有去進行一些國際反毒的工作的會議來邀請我們國安情報單位緝毒的單位一起來參加這些國際工作訪問研討那來了解"},{"start":6861.032,"end":6890.11,"text":"國際在案件相關的分析以及在相關毒品流入的一個最新的資訊所以我也特別提醒啦因為這個跟很多金融嘛就是加密貨幣啦都會有關係啦所以多一些協作我想對於這個防止這種毒品的流竄可能會很幫助好感謝局長那接下來是不是警政署這邊請警政署還是內政部局長可以先休息"},{"start":6898.912,"end":6913.126,"text":"主席好 委員好好 早今天早上這個新聞可能有掌握好像有這個基層的員警對茶企這個度假有一些聲音出來說他們這個好像都有過勞的現象布亞集團署這邊的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":6914.11,"end":6934.314,"text":"我想警政署我們在制定整個企圖的作業程序我們是要求說在企圖的過程裡面我們修了兩次就是從有快篩唾液的部分開始下來以後怎麼樣讓這一個因為我們的唾液快篩大概在實驗室他Base rate大概50-50的話大概是96%"},{"start":6937.635,"end":6956.165,"text":"我們在意的是同仁的執法程序執法程序因為現在事實上我們沒有說在跡下要立我們是啟動全國一定要去做各分局各分局還有各警察局在要求這個作業程序裡面我想我們現在的作業都只是獎勵沒有懲罰"},{"start":6958.126,"end":6975.499,"text":"所以這部分我還是要呼籲在整個領導統一各方面都還是要理性我知道其實大家都很辛苦我也沒有苛責任何一個人的狀況不過因為我長期從事勞動的研究我當然希望大家工作上還是要保持身心的平衡"},{"start":6976.36,"end":7000.205,"text":"所以我想今天媒體爆出來希望警政署這邊還是要做一些了解那到底是什麼樣的問題是不是可以讓這個事情能夠平衡我們也希望這個毒品的查緝能夠持續下去當然我們不希望基層員警因為這個事情而造成他們一些不管是生活或者是工作的壓力"},{"start":7001.705,"end":7020.239,"text":"警政署OK吧可以沒問題我們現在勤務作業幾乎都是用鼓勵的方式是是是不過我想那個報導那個應該是副局長可以再去了解一下那我希望這個事情能夠非常平順的一個可以把它解決是好謝謝委員好感謝好謝謝接下來我們請王逸川委員上台質詢"},{"start":7036.547,"end":7065.696,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請法務部跟關務署請法務部以及關務署好 我先請教關務署我們在所有的海關不管是海運的 空運的 相關的海關現在怎麼查這一些依托米子這些東西是 國務委員報告那個"},{"start":7067.386,"end":7086.799,"text":"如果是跨境的跨境的網購每一件貨物是一定會經過X光的查驗這是第一個第二個就是海關有風險分析的機制會針對高風險的來源國高風險的班機來提高他的查驗比例以上"},{"start":7087.318,"end":7109.064,"text":"我們現在非洲豬瘟有些國家進來就全部手提行李都要驗嘛是那針對伊托米子有做這些事嗎?沒有沒有?那就夾帶進來呢?旅客的話非洲豬瘟那一塊手提行李"},{"start":7111.191,"end":7129.116,"text":"農業部這邊房委會是有房間署這邊是有全部手提行李有檢查有經過X光但是一般旅客除了非洲豬肉製品之外的並沒有每一件手提行李會打開來看對 但是他有經過機器"},{"start":7132.016,"end":7152.578,"text":"對,非洲豬瘟是有經過機器,比如說從泰國回來的班機,每一個手提行李都要經過嗎?既然已經設定這些,我們先前討論了這些毒品的原料的來源國,大宗在哪裡,那針對這些班機,怎麼樣來處理呢?"},{"start":7154.178,"end":7178.183,"text":"高風險的班機 針對高風險的班機它可能來自東南亞 可能來自中國這個海關隊旅客的部分的這一塊它的手提行李海關是都會提高查驗比例的那麼它的拖運行李是百分之百要經過X光那抽驗比例現在狀況怎麼樣抽驗比例有抽驗抓到了嗎有"},{"start":7180.097,"end":7205.514,"text":"大概會有兩三種太陽的情況之下啦第一個X光會照到啦第二個海關有氣毒犬我們一到五月抓到多少是旅客的手提行李抓到了手提行李這個要會後再來提供啊 關務署嗎是 那這不是你們在查的嗎是 手提行李的部分你知道今天要來做這個報告"},{"start":7207.335,"end":7211.2,"text":"那你不知道手提行李查到多少手提行李"},{"start":7213.956,"end":7236.755,"text":"總數一到四月海關查到這個伊托米子總共有一百多公斤那如果說要確認是我為什麼要這樣問因為你剛剛說你們提高了這個頻率提高查驗比例提高查驗的這個比例那我們就要知道說到底有多少的旅客這樣拿進來對不對拿著包包放在裡面這樣進來的是"},{"start":7238.917,"end":7251.432,"text":"人數啊 比例啊總是要跟國人講嘛第二個 走小三通進來的比例會不會比較高"},{"start":7253.188,"end":7265.056,"text":"目前查到的小山東的比例並沒有明顯的比較高那從小山東進來再進到台灣是從這個金門或連江這邊進來之後再進到台灣這跟關務署有沒有關係這個就屬於國內線就沒有檢查了國內線的話所以小山東進來進到金門跟連江以後"},{"start":7279.269,"end":7292.828,"text":"再進到 譬如說進到台北 進到台中這樣的一個 就跟官務署無關那這一段誰查這一段就安檢的部分對 法務部有沒有什麼想法"},{"start":7295.663,"end":7323.991,"text":"委員好 跟委員報告如果它是屬於毒品的先驅原料的話當然我們就會查扣來偵辦海關那邊查貨也會來查辦那如果它是屬於這種所謂的改變化學式的話那因為它不屬於毒品的先驅原料所以呢我們會追蹤了解這些化學品的流向是不是除了化學品之外它還有構置一些相關的製毒的設施配備那我們會積極來查辦所以每個案子呢我們都會查差不多一兩年左右好 謝謝"},{"start":7327.114,"end":7342.814,"text":"請問一下依托彌子在我們還沒討論毒品之前,依托彌子到底可不可以在台灣出現?都不行,因為它是毒品"},{"start":7344.5,"end":7355.567,"text":"依托米子是被列管的毒品被列管的毒品是都不能出現不能進口不能進口是就是一滴都不能進來是ok好謝謝好接下來我們請國安局的局長"},{"start":7362.736,"end":7377.586,"text":"好 局長 最近在中國 泰國國家 哪個國家 創一條什麼團結我請問一下 他們通過這個法 跟國安法 反分裂國家法 到底有什麼關係"},{"start":7379.02,"end":7405.448,"text":"對,他這大概長期以來透過法律工具來對台灣或境外的中國的民主人士來進行這種法律的脅迫所以我們剛剛有提到,包括反分裂國家法,成都二十二條到現在的民族團結進步促進法大概都是中共運用這些法律工具來進行施壓有什麼不一樣,大家都會說七月一號過了很恐怖,到底有什麼不一樣六月三十號不會恐怖,七月一號變成很恐怖是怎樣"},{"start":7406.789,"end":7426.289,"text":"他現在主要的問題是在於說所謂的破壞民族團結他有做一些法律的定義他不管境內跟境外都可能會使用而且定義不清楚那他這個定義不清楚就會增加你相關被他認為涉案的風險好 這個局長我提醒你們"},{"start":7427.35,"end":7439.319,"text":"最近我們有中國關心的人士,包括政體人物、中國人為的異議人士到各國去參與活動,參與演講,就會接到一些通知說7月1日開始,你們覺得要辦?你們是不是要求什麼?你們確定你們還要辦?"},{"start":7457.061,"end":7477.111,"text":"這第一種第二種就是有一些以前沒有聯絡的團體說他也要去參加,他也要上會期,他也要去支持,他也要合照這個事情,國安單位我建議你們要掌握為什麼呢?因為這個國外邀請單位,去給這些人定位公共就有所謂的緊張"},{"start":7484.895,"end":7488.54,"text":"我們邀請的來賓來 邀請的來賓來 現在邀請的來賓來當然這個主辦單位都不怕繼續在辦啦只是說 心裡也有一個壓力存在你們有掌握這樣的資訊嗎"},{"start":7500.336,"end":7516.353,"text":"這大概分幾部分跟委員說明因為他透過這種法律工具的法律脅迫目的就是希望能夠製造一種寒產的效應就像剛剛委員的描述那第二部分是國際社會這一次事實上對於他的這個法律的推動表達非常高度跟嚴正的關切"},{"start":7516.713,"end":7536.281,"text":"那包括我剛才跟其他委員在說明有的國家甚至在評估考慮要跟中國終止所謂的這種所謂引渡的一個條款那也有國家在評估假如中國的官員去執行這個法律的話考慮要對他施予制裁所以這已經在國際社會掀起一個效應所以這是這民主國家如果說真的要抓人要怎麼也要用那個國家的人去抓嘛"},{"start":7539.142,"end":7555.246,"text":"不會說你參加一個活動,中國的警察衝下去就把你抓起來你還是不會吧?我要注意的是他的跨境鎮壓有一些手法他的一些手法有包括到類似這種法律上的威脅那另外還有包括到人身的這種跟監或騷擾"},{"start":7557.327,"end":7577.901,"text":"那也有透過數位的一個監控來對於你的一些郵件往返來進行一些相關的註收那來造成心理的一個恐懼跟壓力那我想中共他操作的一方面是有法律的工具另一方面是透過他的海外勤工來做這些部件騷擾而形成我剛剛跟委員說明的一種寒產的效應那這部分我們當然必須要跟國際社會來加強這樣的一個聯繫來揭露跟說明這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":7587.447,"end":7602.43,"text":"以外的一個安全情報機構來查查這樣子的過程有沒有去侵犯到基本的人權或相關的價值我們的一個基本的人權還有言論的自由的價值好 謝謝局長 最後希望我們 雖然我們國人是海外去對中國人民說這幾個要怎麼樣"},{"start":7611.553,"end":7618.456,"text":"邀請他們的黨委、基金都會接觸一些關心的黨委,要去參加的人參加外黨的人,也會去跟基金說,你肯定要去?這個確實都有開始有一點擔心國安黨委研究一下,要怎麼國人有時候會去跟澳洲也在煩惱"},{"start":7641.966,"end":7668.691,"text":"不過跟委員說明一下啦因為他這樣剛剛講的那個法律的內容以及他相關在海外這種跨境鎮壓的這些動作事實上是對於國際的基本的法治跟人權規範一個非常嚴重的侵犯所以他會提供我們跟相關各國在這個議題上發展更進一步合作跟交流的一個機會那我們會利用這個機會來拓展我們跟國際上在這方面議題的一個合作跟溝通好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":7672.588,"end":7676.751,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請徐巧欣委員上台質詢謝謝主席 我們先請這個內政部 法務部然後待會的話呢可能會有這個縣指部跟國安局好不好那相關單位就聽到問題再一次上前謝謝主席好 請以上單位就備詢來好"},{"start":7703.188,"end":7708.895,"text":"首先就是呢我們可以先來比較一下就是從酒駕到獨駕那酒駕的取締件數呢從110年開始看的話大概110年111年都有差不多6萬件左右但在110年"},{"start":7718.327,"end":7736.317,"text":"包含我們的法治教育然後呢社會上面對於反對酒駕的這個認知還有呢我們很多就是這歷年來我們都在不斷的加重相關的嚇阻跟刑責以及相關的臨檢跟抽查我們可以看到有確實的下降"},{"start":7736.937,"end":7763.134,"text":"所以113年114年是有下降的那現在下降到大概4萬多件左右所以呢我們看到今年的上半年2萬多那加起來的話呢應該有機會就是壓在這個5萬以下所以也就是說呢我們在很多的措施上面綜合大家下去做的話那還是能夠有成效的這一點我想在獨駕上面我們也應該要把握同樣的一個思維"},{"start":7763.854,"end":7786.515,"text":"好,那所以我們看一下酒駕之後呢,酒駕是就是我們查的量很多,但是整體被查到的是在地檢的所以這個地方也要特別講一下,它並不是我們因為查的少,所以抓到的少是查的多,但是整體而言慢慢慢慢有下降的趨勢那我們看獨駕,完全完全的相反110年的時候呢,查了,你要想我們查這麼多"},{"start":7787.896,"end":7803.419,"text":"就是開車的那110年呢是43件而已111年呢46件都很少但是呢112年開始慢慢往上這時候數字還不是很明顯315113年到2619114年到8659115年光是今年的上半年1月到5月的統計數據就已經6730了所以想先問一下相關單位就是呢這個"},{"start":7817.782,"end":7844.035,"text":"我們從110年對比到去年年底等於是暴增了200倍這個是非常非常大幅的這個成長那也就是說呢現在新興毒品已經全部的去攻入了我們台灣的這個市場裡面所以才會有它同時也在開車的情況 度假那請問一下我們目前估算就是說今年年度下來的話會不會突破前一年也就是114年的數據"},{"start":7846.376,"end":7859.966,"text":"我想這個問題有幾個面向第一個就是說毒品的濫用當然次數增加是一個第二個就是說我們從去年11月開始我們有快篩工具所以就是說過去一些黑數的部分我們可以凸顯出來"},{"start":7861.247,"end":7878.18,"text":"那今年度我們強化獨駕取締之後5月24之後我們的獨駕的這個件數是有下降的所以我們希望今年能夠壓在一定的數字以下那搭配我們前端的查驗希望的預期是希望不超過去年還是說你們沒有預設特別的立場"},{"start":7879.02,"end":7899.459,"text":"我們目前還沒有辦法估算因為還要看我們在前端查驗的部分它的一個跟尤其是跟委員報告因為它是毒品跟菸品的整合所以等於是我們現在對毒價或毒防這一塊還要搭配菸害防治法三個法去修正你們現在這個快篩的工具的具體成效如何可不可以說一下"},{"start":7902.615,"end":7922.922,"text":"跟委員報告我們快篩加上我們的前側的不能安全駕駛的增厚加起來大概6000多件以後我們快篩試劑大概有99.8%的準確度那去年我們買了1萬多因為是11月20才開始有快篩試劑今年我們買了4萬多那4萬多我們會根據整個獨家的狀況再滾動修正"},{"start":7928.624,"end":7952.902,"text":"那你們買4萬多嘛那你們這麼多的不同的企圖的單位啊你們是怎麼去分配這些事跡的我們各分局都會有就只有在警察系統嗎是是是那我問一下那個縣指鋪好不好因為這個國軍的部分相關單位麻煩一下因為國軍的部分大家呢也非常的重視那因為軍隊是一個比較密集的環境嘛"},{"start":7953.582,"end":7968.13,"text":"所以說其實大家也很重視比如說在第一次我們有相關新聞的時候是2024年大概6月左右109旅的內部就已經有發現說士兵在販售喪屍煙彈甚至有班長去涉獄來轉售"},{"start":7969.491,"end":7986.584,"text":"那後續呢又再爆發出義務役一次攜帶大概50顆喪屍煙彈入營那大家關注度很高後續2025年我們國防部也是要全力去強化相關的反毒跟安檢措施但是第八軍團也有義務兵是否攜帶喪屍煙彈入營的案件"},{"start":7988.886,"end":7993.97,"text":"那在2026年109旅的案件判決書內容曝光就顯示了除了單純持有之外還在營內有販售幹部涉案跟同袍交易的情況那我想問一下就是綜合剛剛幾個點"},{"start":8004.898,"end":8024.945,"text":"就是說如果現在有相關的快篩作為工具的話我們在軍隊裡面也有使用類似的措施嗎或我們在軍隊裡面我們現在主要的查緝措施是什麼是靠有人檢舉然後上了新聞才抓還是我們有主動的一些措施來降低因為這個對於整體的軍機形象可以說是非常差的"},{"start":8027.352,"end":8040.85,"text":"委員好 當然針對這個區分兩個部分來報告第一個在我們如果有接獲相關的這些情資的部分的話我們各個轄區憲兵隊會主動來做一個偵辦"},{"start":8043.653,"end":8057.665,"text":"針對那個源頭的部分來做溯源那第二個部分是我們如果是接貨到單位內自行查貨有這個相關這個煙彈的部分的話那我們第一時間會有轄區憲兵隊到場我們有"},{"start":8060.928,"end":8077.006,"text":"所謂的這個毒物的篩檢試劑來做一個出驗驗完之後後續相關包含他當事人也會做一個尿液採驗的部分來送後續的復驗那這個做法是什麼時候開始可不可以講一下時間點"},{"start":8078.247,"end":8091.957,"text":"這個做法我們從國軍尿液篩檢的一個作業機制那就沒有什麼用啊因為我剛剛講了嘛2024年6月爆發109旅然後是內部有士兵販售喪屍煙彈然後班長也有涉入轉售"},{"start":8092.978,"end":8106.092,"text":"然後在大概11月左右的時候同一個旅它又是再爆發出義務役的這個期待50顆進入營裡面嘛所以說因為為什麼講109旅的原因是因為2026年有判決書這個內容裡面曝光就是說營內它不只是持有"},{"start":8111.257,"end":8133.318,"text":"他還有販售跟交易這樣的情形那如果說是以你剛剛講那個規則來講的話你第1次6月的查完之後你還會有11月的事情發生嗎那顯然你們在整體的這個查緝上面是不會就是即便你有情資的情況下你也沒有去把整個比如說好那今天是109旅發生這個事情你也沒有去查清楚整個109旅的情況才會這樣一個旅裡面一報再報啊"},{"start":8137.134,"end":8162.367,"text":"報告委員109里這個案例我們當初在偵查的部分的話這個煙彈的來源都是從營外西入到營區內那你難道營內自治嗎你覺得什麼意思我覺得其他委員都笑出來了我覺得那廢話當然是營外西入啊如果你今天告訴我不是營外西入的話那今天大家"},{"start":8163.649,"end":8182.729,"text":"我看下一次國防部來的時候你們大家都不用混了說我們國軍有在製毒喔當然不可能 當然是營外吸入嘛但問題是我們現在在講查緝啊查緝 我不管你說是不是哪邊帶來就是說你查緝沒有做得很乾淨這件事情因為我再講一次這個時間點為什麼我針對109女士第一個 她現在判決內容是有曝光的"},{"start":8186.773,"end":8206.898,"text":"所以除了持有之外我們營內內部有在交易這是不一樣的喔第二個是它是分階段被爆發出來的所以最早2024年6月的時候就爆發了可是因為可能你們查不是很乾淨所以爆了一次之後後面爆了第二次我要問的是說我們要怎麼樣杜絕類似的狀況因為"},{"start":8208.498,"end":8236.352,"text":"誰在營內持有這個貨市交易販售這個它是現場的這個狀況我們今天要問的是我們的監督機制如果今天我們整體的查緝監督機制能夠做好的話那當然就可以下降甚至杜絕為什麼要特別找縣指鋪過來講的原因是因為我們剛剛分兩塊一塊是針對大眾大眾它相對難以處理是因為它分布在我們全台灣的各地從學校啊 各個 你很多地方要管控"},{"start":8236.812,"end":8260.851,"text":"那問題是在軍隊裡面不一樣它相對的環境 照理來說你們去檢查 稽查大家的生活情況然後同袍之間的互動它是能夠更精準的去打擊的所以就不應該讓類似的事情包含在2025年都還有持續的在爆發所以我要問的事情是你再講清楚一下最後一點時間講清楚我們現在到底要怎麼樣在軍隊裡面進行源頭的打擊"},{"start":8263.855,"end":8279.356,"text":"我們針對剛剛腰動酒旅的個案的部分的話它是兩個不同的先後順序在同一個單位發生那我們雖然前面已經有查到那它提供這個毒品來源的部分的話是不同的對象"},{"start":8280.077,"end":8289.341,"text":"那這部分的話不是對話嗎?你同一個對象就同一次就查啦我意思你都沒有聽懂我的意思就是說今天109率它有爆發你雖然時間先後它當然不是同一個順序不是賣給同一個人但是呢它的很近就一個是6月到9月一個是11月嘛對不對"},{"start":8297.165,"end":8322.696,"text":"那等於是一個旅裡面它不到一兩個月之內它又爆出一起而且是相對50顆來講是相對在軍人比較多的所以就是說我要檢討的事情是為什麼我們在2024年6月開始你就知道說在旅裡面有人販售啊還有轉售的情況但是我卻無法在這一個就是這一個旅裡面去防治後去有人帶進來這是很重大的一個瑕疵跟疏忽的問題"},{"start":8324.654,"end":8346.769,"text":"跟委員報告一下這個其實最主要是說針對門禁管制部分可能也是沒有查查不嚴那依照現在國軍最新的規定在部隊到營區之後兩個月內要所有人要做完一次快篩那可能這個部分也可能會沒有落實再加上這個內部管理472.5查3早也沒有去做一個"},{"start":8348.33,"end":8357.553,"text":"這個作為所以才產生這個內部有這些問題出現那我們現在從109年開始我們憲兵也有針對幾個重點單位會由專區指定我們的軍犬會針對這幾個單位會做一個這個毒品的查查來強化目前這幾個比較有狀況的單位的問題"},{"start":8371.758,"end":8386.941,"text":"好 謝謝說明喔那我想這樣的一個說明是比較清楚的因為不管是說快篩的工具或者你說企圖權或者是軍隊自己內部的軍紀跟這個同袍之間的互相的通報其實它有很多管道可以多管齊下"},{"start":8387.702,"end":8407.192,"text":"只有多管齊下的方式才能夠杜絕喪屍煙彈或是毒品進到軍隊裡面這對我們國人怎麼看待國軍是一個非常重要的指標所以獨駕當然要去取地但是我們國軍內部的軍紀大家自己要整肅好麻煩再把這個部分再多加強化 謝謝好 謝謝我們接下來請黃建斌委員上台質詢"},{"start":8430.756,"end":8434.891,"text":"謝謝 稍後我們有請國安局蔡局長上台請蔡局長"},{"start":8441.575,"end":8462.565,"text":"最近網路有流傳一篇自稱是國防部駐派泰國人員所寫的這個文章內容是提到說我國在東南亞有相關的情報收集的工作那基本你知道說國防部已經公開的否認這個相關的內容所以今天我們不是要替這篇文章來背書而是要提出一個很直接的問題就是說"},{"start":8463.846,"end":8480.117,"text":"如果這類的跨境能力這些跨境的情報的蒐集能力真的存在那我們政府到底把這樣的能力用在什麼地方我們依據內政部統計近一年半查獲超過兩萬公斤的這些毒品那像其中包括"},{"start":8483.218,"end":8499.066,"text":"伊托米子大麻還有Ketamine這些大眾的毒品不少就是從東南亞地區流到台灣那尤其是泰國是最大眾我想既然的毒品的源頭就在境外那人民當然會想要問就是說那如果政府有能力來"},{"start":8500.246,"end":8528.752,"text":"掌握這個跨境的情資的話為什麼不把更多的資源放在鎖定這些販毒的集團製毒的工廠甚至是它走私的路線而是讓這麼多的毒品一批又一批的流進來台灣我想我要強調說今天不是要求我們官員要公開做任何情報作業或是透露國家機密這件事我要問的是我們整個政策的方向跟委員說明一下在國外的"},{"start":8529.632,"end":8545.165,"text":"合作的部分怎麼樣來針對反毒 緝毒來加強合作那剛剛DLH在書面專報有說明到他們在海外大概有三十幾個站點都有派出相關的人力那也跟當地的司法跟執法的機關都有密切的聯繫"},{"start":8545.945,"end":8562.746,"text":"那因為販毒的集團每個國家他大概都有一些蠻嚴厲的管制措施不過在查辦的過程當中他們可能也會基於情資的敏感性因為他們還在查辦所以可能在分享上怎麼樣再來做進一步的強化這或許是後續可以來努力的部分"},{"start":8563.146,"end":8586.295,"text":"一般來講會涉及到這種跨國情資的交換可能是有確認到特殊的哪一筆的毒品的運送那已經離開了那個東南亞國家的國境而往哪一個國家去那這種情況之下比較有可能會有這種跨國的那種緝毒情資的分享那不過委員提醒的重點還是在於說怎麼樣更有系統的啦源頭打擊啦能夠在境外就來阻絕"},{"start":8587.495,"end":8609.107,"text":"這些毒品的進入到我們的境內這或許比在境內加強茶器來得更有效果我大概聽懂委員的意思不過也有涉及到跨國反毒合作跟國際友方一些合作的機制的強化跟建立那這部分我們也一起再跟調查局或其他我們的請證所來加強這方面的經驗的分享"},{"start":8610.147,"end":8631.385,"text":"局長其實都很了解整個狀況然後其實我想我們政府大量投入這麼多的發展情報的這些經費我想人民想要期待看到就是我們的治安的成果不是說等毒品進到台灣之後然後流到校園然後危害到年輕人我們來去抓這個末端的藥頭我想所以有幾個問題也想要用這個機會跟局長來請教就是說"},{"start":8635.649,"end":8652.919,"text":"如果我們真的具備這樣的跨境情收能力那第一個就是剛剛部長提到是不是有做跨部會的這些合作機制把相關的情報資料給我們的警政署或者是我們電話站或者是我們的海巡署這些單位用來打擊我們的這個跨境的突兵犯罪"},{"start":8653.519,"end":8681.421,"text":"那第二個我們現在查獲一年半查獲超過兩萬公斤的毒品裡面政府我們多少案件是在毒品在進入台灣之前我們就掌握到源頭然後在境外就把它攔截起來比例是多少是第二個問題第三個就是說未來我們政府是不是願意把更多這個跨境合作這個情報資料優先投入打擊毒品的犯罪人口的販賣還有詐騙極端等等因為這個都是現在台灣非常非常痛而且也一直沒有辦法解決的社會問題齁那"},{"start":8683.988,"end":8692.05,"text":"我想這三個問題是不是能夠請局長簡單的回覆第二部分因為國安局是國家情報機關事實上那個"},{"start":8693.376,"end":8722.375,"text":"反毒的一個企圖還有查查是檢方在統一高檢署在統一指揮辦案的那我們要是有情職會到我們的國安情報團隊裡面具有司法檢查權的機關那他們會在上報由高檢署來做統一的指揮所以資訊的流入大概是這樣子的方式在進行那委員的第二個問題我請調局來說明委員的關切是在於說這些茶器的毒品裡面有哪一些是從境外進入到國內的這部分的細部的數據我請調局跟委員報告"},{"start":8724.216,"end":8751.011,"text":"那個跟委員報告我們跟我們有在23個國家有派出30個法務秘書然後呢所以我們每一年都有這個毒品情資的交換那經由情資的交換我們在114年度有查緝在海外有查緝到九件總共有7000多公斤的毒品就攔截於在境外那在115年到目前為止有查緝三案有2000多公斤的毒品攔截於在境外跟委員報告謝謝好謝謝副局長的說明謝謝局長我要"},{"start":8753.152,"end":8777.831,"text":"本席要表達說 人民其實最關心的不是說我們的情報能力多神秘而是這些能力能夠真正用在保護我們人民的身上如果有能力我希望能夠做到這一點就是讓這些境外不管是毒品或是詐騙的東西都能在境外就把它消滅掉那這部分我想因為這樣的後果其實等到我們發現的時候是全民要承擔的代價非常非常的大"},{"start":8778.291,"end":8796.316,"text":"不過這部分跟委員再補充報告跟說明一下那因為很多境外的毒品假如說毒品的成品的話就像剛剛跟委員說明的大部分可能來自於東南亞的相關國家可是假如就毒品的先驅原料來講的話那中國大陸又是先驅原料最主要的一個主要來源"},{"start":8796.776,"end":8822.454,"text":"我覺得不管來自哪邊我們都是要在境外就把他消滅所以剛剛貂曲有在跟委員們做說明是我們有相關的資訊跟對岸來做通報那對岸並沒有積極的在做配合來啟動兩岸共打的機制所以利用這個機會也是希望呼籲對岸對於毒品問題應該要更加的重視我相信毒品的問題全世界各國大家應該都一樣不要有這個國界的話分一起來打擊這種毒品犯罪好 謝謝局長的說明謝謝副局長 謝謝"},{"start":8828.717,"end":8831.562,"text":"謝謝我們接下來請賴氏寶委員上台質詢"},{"start":8843.675,"end":8865.944,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請國安局的蔡局長內政部的馬次長以及警政署刑警刑事警察局的林副局長以及調查局的林副局長請以上人員就備訓好 以上幾位長官"},{"start":8871.039,"end":8886.43,"text":"來 局長你剛才提到這個東西今天是講的是國際的劑毒我們就我們都知道嘛毒品是危害全世界的大家看到毒品每個國家都喊打我現在請問你我們過去2009年跟大陸有一個兩岸共打的條例協議共同打擊犯罪現在這個機制沒有了嗎"},{"start":8901.961,"end":8902.803,"text":"目前運作狀況"},{"start":8907.601,"end":8934.51,"text":"這位是跟委員報告那兩岸共打這個部分是刑事警察局我們兩岸科在負責的那事實上現在目前還是有那我們這個案件我們事實上我們提供了146件的情資提供給我們中國大陸那中國大陸也提供了80件那兩邊合作偵破的案件有7件這是最近我們在7件是毒品方面的都有各類的案件"},{"start":8935.49,"end":8958.531,"text":"毒品有多少?我沒有去細分毒品,這七件裡面是全部啦那大部分的案件,毒品應該也有幾件這個我特別請蔡局長出來就是說這是因為你是提供親自的嘛第一手資料在你的手上嘛對不對那我查了一下相關資料"},{"start":8959.312,"end":8976.044,"text":"我們重大的外逃通緝犯就逃到國外去的啦齁這裡面來講大陸是佔了56%超過一半是逃到大陸去然後大陸的案件裡面主要是經濟犯66%屬於經濟犯貪污犯及毒品兩個加起來30%30%所以我就是問一下就是說局長"},{"start":8989.897,"end":9015.964,"text":"這個東西你也了解嘛兩岸關係現在是緊張的嘛所以兩岸的共打機制這麼重要的一個共打機制現在幾乎快沒有了弄了半天就七千打擊結果就七千而已啊事實上事實上來講的話聯合國都點名台灣成為詐騙洗清中心而且聯合國也點名台灣是國際的販毒據點這個對吧"},{"start":9018.657,"end":9040.221,"text":"對 再跟委員說明一下那兩岸事實上有這種共打的機制它應該建立在說打擊跨國犯罪它應該不要受到任何政治因素的一個干預有嗎 現在有干預嗎現在有政治干預嗎因為現在中國大陸對於跟我方政府的一個官方高階層的接觸它是有擋定一些政治條件我覺得這個要呼籲不管哪一個國家 中國大陸也好"},{"start":9044.162,"end":9071.827,"text":"我覺得打擊毒品不要有意識心態打擊毒品全世界所有國家大家的責任因為毒品危害對世界世界的危害是非常的非常的嚴重那我再請教你除了中國大陸以外我們跟其他國家有沒有跨國的這個合作劑毒的機制有那幾個國家跟我們講一個"},{"start":9074.546,"end":9090.743,"text":"哪幾個國家?來這個部分因為剛剛調查局也有講通過法務秘書在20個國家23個國家然後派駐30個法務秘書那跟當地的警察跟執法單位針對這種毒品的案件跟打擊跨國犯罪都有非常緊密的一個合作"},{"start":9091.653,"end":9107.207,"text":"我看了一下相關的資料那個名單應該專報裡面都有列出來我看了一下說我們的台灣的這些毒販逃到國外去啊他不是跑去國外幹什麼是跑去國外變成操控啊在國外操控國內啊操控台灣啊這樣的點我請教一下那個是調查局的哪一位長官跟我們講一下這些我們台灣的毒販到國際去"},{"start":9119.98,"end":9120.261,"text":"主要是東南亞國家"},{"start":9126.155,"end":9150.142,"text":"那我們在監控當中如果有發現集團其實我們在某個案子中有發現某個集團跑到馬來西亞我們經由搜報之後就積極的把經過檢察官同意之後把這個資訊呢就傳到馬來西亞的那個警察局那個宿毒局的部分然後在一百一十年我們查獲了一個製毒工廠這是在海外查獲的所以我們在23國有三個保護署那可以相關的人可以印度回來嗎"},{"start":9151.943,"end":9172.319,"text":"因為他的犯罪地點是在馬來西亞的他的工廠是在馬來西亞所以等於我們的毒販討到國外去成立據點然後在國外遙控台灣我們沒有辦法這個可以實施在馬來西亞製毒對啊我知道啊但是那個主事者是台灣人啊對不對"},{"start":9174.34,"end":9191.972,"text":"對嘛 就主要的那個頭頭啊對不對 大毒梟這個是台灣過去的是 因為我們都會積極的溯源雖然我們在現場抓不管抓到多少人那我們的案件中已經有溯源哪一些是主嫌 哪一些是幕後的這種操控者我們都會積極的查辦我時間到了 最後就提醒那個採取彰化"},{"start":9196.567,"end":9215.141,"text":"我們台灣是不是要變成一個亞太運營中心呢最近金管會還說我們要變成亞太資產管理中心要取代香港的一些的工人很好 有這樣的做法 企圖性很好可是台灣現在已經變成詐騙與販毒中心了這才可怕在這裡啊"},{"start":9221.413,"end":9247.176,"text":"這是連日國奠明的咧不是我們隨便講的咧2025年就被連日國奠明台灣變成詐騙洗錢中心這國安局沒有辦法做點事情對這部分剛剛也有跟其他委員說明因為有很多的司法查辦是檢方高檢署在指揮偵辦的那國安局這邊我們還是情報機關不過我們應該要拉高到像委員講的以國安的層級來看待這些問題"},{"start":9247.776,"end":9273.949,"text":"這當然是國安法對不對所以我們會做的是用情報來支援相關司法單位來來來我請教最後一句話那個警政署刑事警察局的林副局長跟我們解釋一下可以嗎對於這兩個東西都是跟你們有關係我就跟你講一個具體的我開過公聽會一對夫妻被騙了他退休被騙了兩千萬"},{"start":9276.513,"end":9280.959,"text":"我把你們的人找來 長官找來結果你給大家的答案是說錢不會錢它不會來啦錢幾乎它不會來啦我就問你詐騙的錢大概拿回來比例多高比例多高"},{"start":9292.109,"end":9308.271,"text":"跟我們報告雖然講的這個是實話但是跟被害人來講我想每一個人都抱有希望那我們現在當然實體的還有虛擬貨幣的部分我們光去年科技中心有查過將近百億"},{"start":9309.349,"end":9334.882,"text":"的虛擬貨幣但是這個部分要透過司法單位最後它不是簡單的一個帳戶對帳戶如果簡單的馬上依照造行條例馬上可以緩緩但是它層層的很多的金流是交織在一起的這是要釐清了以後才有辦法透過虛擬公司去緩緩被害人所以不是沒有緩緩的機會還是有比例多少嗎當然是很低低到多少"},{"start":9335.39,"end":9345.897,"text":"低到多少 這個我不敢在這個地方你們的長官 刑事局的長官 警政署的長官在我的工地會講說10% 10%不低喔 有10%嗎這個我還在想算應該沒有吧 要多久時間拿回來那10%"},{"start":9358.852,"end":9375.322,"text":"多久的時間可以拿回來大部分大部分一般我們除了我們造訪條例剛剛跟委員報告除了簡單的金流造訪條例有一個特殊的可以緩緩被害人不然大部分都要等到判刑確定如果這些多久多久多久那個司法進行大概好幾年了"},{"start":9376.282,"end":9395.112,"text":"五年所以你現在告訴我們的是說如果被詐欺了大概五年內這個錢一毛錢都拿不回來所以我們現在事實上為什麼說市詐非常重要在源頭管理的部分我們一直從這方面來做今天的數字很可怕"},{"start":9399.144,"end":9401.425,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩請蔡局長還有內政部"},{"start":9426.56,"end":9433.651,"text":"還有調查局還有海巡署還有關務署以及縣指部參謀長茂倫好局長好"},{"start":9439.502,"end":9451.09,"text":"我們今天特別邀請我們國內其實六大情治單位大概都可以到我們今天的議題來作為一些討論其實很重要的是我們認為毒品的氾濫已經非常嚴重因為從以毒價來看"},{"start":9459.295,"end":9461.357,"text":"因為像過去酒駕曾經是台灣社會最憤怒的這樣子的一個社會議題可是現在更難抓更難驗而且更難訪的問題是獨駕那當然就是因為像這些新興毒品它可能"},{"start":9476.67,"end":9486.112,"text":"在越來越去氾濫的情況底下而且好像也很不容易去抓獲所以台灣接連發生多起疑似獨駕造成的重大死傷事故從喪屍煙彈、依托彌植、K他命、安徽他命到混合型的新興土品等等其實非常多我們從一些數據資料看起來2020年這個獨駕的這個件數取締件數大概只有50件"},{"start":9503.516,"end":9507.923,"text":"可是到去年2025年已經高達8000多件想必今年可能會突破1萬件所以他的這個案件數暴增了200倍這是非常驚人的一個數字所以我們今天很希望"},{"start":9518.74,"end":9537.905,"text":"可以有一個具體的答案因為從剛才有非常多的委員其實也都非常關切我們到底應該要怎麼樣去防治我們最重要的我們知道來源你即使從東南亞即使從中國大陸不管是原料也好成品也好我們知道這些來源可是我們畢竟是一個封閉型的海島國家"},{"start":9539.065,"end":9554.359,"text":"如果我們這麼小的範圍我們都沒有辦法在國內自己把它做好其實我們很難只是怪罪其他的國家或其他的一個方式所以我們在這裡還是要比較確切的來討論因為就剛剛提到的除了我們社會大眾受到影響以外而且"},{"start":9558.883,"end":9578.688,"text":"現在習讀的人口越來越多,那現在親入到校園,除了我們青少年以外,其實更多的讓人家非常不安,讓家長非常不放心的,就是我們的連國小的學童都可以接觸到,或者甚至可以起死。"},{"start":9579.588,"end":9598.729,"text":"所以其實像這樣子也是等於是被餵養那今天還有我們的縣指部也到就是我們軍中其實我們也非常的擔心我們現在在軍中因為像我們現在有很多把它變成像教召它兩年變成一年大概就會有這麼"},{"start":9601.312,"end":9606.536,"text":"高的天數然後這麼頻繁的一個次數你等於說從我們在我們一般民間其實到軍中其實這樣子的一個管道是非常頻繁然後他可能會有進來的影響也是非常的大那之前其實也發生過幾件剛剛也有委員提到就是我們可能在過去像"},{"start":9628.271,"end":9634.807,"text":"窯洞酒旅還有我們的金門還有我們其實相關發生的這些"},{"start":9636.075,"end":9660.157,"text":"重要的還有第八軍團這些其實他都可以用郵寄的方式或者甚至攜帶入營的方式他都可以去影響到我們軍中所有這樣子的一個可能有毒品氾濫的一個狀況那所以我們現在今天要特別討論的剛剛大家有提到不管是來源也好他現在發生率也好我想有幾個問題要"},{"start":9662.338,"end":9680.646,"text":"請教我們所有的在座的在場的這些相關的單位的與會代表那因為化學原料它要改成就是它即使有修正一些化學式可是它必須要製成成品我們現在有幾個問題我想要請教的是查貨的案件它進口的是一般化工原料中間體還是依托米紙原料它有沒有相關的數據資料"},{"start":9691.927,"end":9695.841,"text":"查獲案件的數據是不是請那個相關哪一個可以說明"},{"start":9696.721,"end":9722.243,"text":"是跟委員報告目前走私夾帶的話當然是以成品為主在原料的部分大部分都是非劣管的化學品但我們只要發現它是可以屬於製造伊托米子的話目前高檢署已經預警了有34種未劣管的這種化學品同時也積極的提列第四級毒品的先驅原料目前已經提列了64種"},{"start":9724.299,"end":9736.474,"text":"所以只要發現它是製毒原料的話我們就會積極體力來查辦那雖然胃裂管是化學品的話我們會積極了解它的流向如果它的流向有去從事製毒的話我們都會積極的來偵辦這些案件以上報告"},{"start":9740.74,"end":9746.566,"text":"所以其實我們進口的如果是依托米紙成品原料它不一定需要經過加工調製分裝它就可以成為非法販售的成品可是這也是我們嚴格禁止的嘛這也是這直接就是犯法那如果進口的是先驅化學品"},{"start":9760.48,"end":9786.399,"text":"就有提到說他只要修改化學室可是他當然這通常需要進一步化學合成才能製成依托米紙所以其實就這兩個的區分我們應該要在所有單位上面其實應該要去分工怎麼樣把它做好剛剛提到的是他可能相關的原料或者中間體或者他已經製成依托米紙的原料就是API"},{"start":9788.44,"end":9802.94,"text":"再請教第二個問題就是是否掌握我們國內有非法化學合成能力還是僅有非法加工分裝的行為目前我們掌握的有多少"},{"start":9803.877,"end":9823.74,"text":"事實上我們插貨的分裝廠就有180個分裝廠那事實上它是不是很容易很容易 現在就是說分裝而已嘛我們看到一個趨勢就是說伊多米子原本是原料原料早期是在113年還沒有管制之前大部分都是用化學品進來的"},{"start":9824.721,"end":9841.974,"text":"那管制之後 管制之後我們發現的是最近像那個海巡署查了查過他的一通名字酸他們就是試圖試圖用一些同一購物的部分做化學結合然後結合了以後去製造那目前在台灣我們查到是分裝廠"},{"start":9842.955,"end":9855.176,"text":"那我們看到這個趨勢還沒有看到這個在台灣製造衣脫名紙這樣的一個已經完成的部分但是有看到那個有看到那個意圖所以已經把那些都列為先期原料"},{"start":9856.061,"end":9879.251,"text":"所以目前我們抓到的很多他們使用的其實幾乎都是境外直接進來的就是一坨米子的原料是這樣子的意思嗎那一公斤就可以做一萬克的煙彈所以還是都是境外的所以接下來管務署就還有海巡署就非常重要了還有因為他大概都是還有包括郵寄這個部分那海關的"},{"start":9880.373,"end":9888.977,"text":"以及主管機關他要如何追蹤依托名指API的這個合法用途跟流向因為你如果有進來了就剛剛的說明其實他已經幾乎都是API的這種形式進來對不對"},{"start":9896.181,"end":9921.282,"text":"那像他可以進來除了像用一些非法手段比如說偷偷夾帶啦郵寄啦或者相關的剛剛在我們的那個比例上面其實這些可能佔的非常高那除了像這樣子如果他是合法進來的我們要怎麼樣去追蹤他的合法用途跟流向有沒有相關的一個追蹤的一個政策作為目前已經"},{"start":9922.023,"end":9949.376,"text":"因為伊多米子現在已經列管為一級毒品了那所以有合法的用途跟流向有相當的管制嗎?目前怎麼管制?這個部分譬如說像現在伊多米子的部分它本來是麻醉劑這是醫療在用的那這個管制了以後它的流向一進來以後衛福部他們一進來以後這些東西都要列管的所以合法進口的沒有問題嘛所以現在發生的就是剛剛提到的你可能用非法進口的一個方式"},{"start":9950.396,"end":9953.3,"text":"接下來再請教因為在座的各位現在都在我們要怎麼樣建立跨機關我們先不要說跨境因為你要跟國外共同合作或者共打其實這個可能都要有"},{"start":9966.516,"end":9993.492,"text":"可能對方的意願可是至少在我們國內應該基本要做到如果你國內都做不到你遑論跟其他國家要做這樣的合作所以我們有沒有建立這樣跨機關比如說海關警政衛福法務還有我們這樣異常進口以及流向的預警機制因為國安局大概能夠掌握一些相關的情資可是像這些我們跨機關的像這樣子的一個"},{"start":9995.493,"end":10005.259,"text":"它的進口或者它的流向你已經知道有很多違法這樣的一個情資有沒有做這樣的一個跨就是我們的預警機制"},{"start":10007.014,"end":10025.385,"text":"跟會員報告那個剛剛在報告裡面有提到高檢署他從112年1月開始就已經有啟用了重大毒品案件的情資依化通報系統那只要這些案件他有一些條件條件如果符合的話就必須要透過這個情資通報系統來通報那高檢署那邊會自動碰撞"},{"start":10025.825,"end":10030.309,"text":"那到目前為止已經有377件是通報出來的剛剛你提到這個是已經發生的案件那這樣子的通報已經都是事後的一個救濟的動作我們現在說的是有很多如果說你有一些相關的情資你怎麼樣再聯繫所有相關的這些單位其實就應該要做一個源頭打擊的一個動作比如說可能有非法進口的這樣子的一個來源像這些我們可以做到什麼樣的程度"},{"start":10055.789,"end":10075.426,"text":"現在目前有嗎是跟委員報告其實所謂這種所謂碰撞這些呢都不是偵辦完的案件這個是目前我們發現有情資有線索我們會提列到提報地檢所去細數他們就會通報所有的相關單位對對對這都是在偵查中的案件然後只要碰撞發現有重疊的話我們就會採取這種合作的方式來處理"},{"start":10076.147,"end":10079.648,"text":"所以簡單來說我們等一下希望有一個總結的一個做法因為剛剛有提到說我們要應該要做什麼樣的一個方式包括海巡剛剛也有提到說應該要還要提供什麼因為我們以海巡來說那現在如果要走私偷渡進來這個可能也是一個管道那我們現在全國的全島光纖建制還有雷達"},{"start":10100.735,"end":10127.074,"text":"雷達站還有我們很多的紅外線熱像儀還有無人機還有甚至船艦等等其實我們提供非常多的資源也提供了很多的預算其實海巡署每年都在做這樣的建制可是我們透過這樣走私的途徑或者我們像剛剛說內政或什麼其實我們每年的預算已經都非常高了所以就這些相關的這些還有什麼不足的我想請各單位稍微補充說明一下"},{"start":10130.296,"end":10155.871,"text":"以現在目前氾濫的情況而且件數越來越增加的情況你如果獨家這麼多表示稀釋的人口也非常實用的也非常多雖然它是非法的可是居然這麼多人可以持有這麼多人可以使用我想其實它一定有問題存在那我想請每個單位就你們現在還不足的部分或者可以強化精進的部分可以簡單的說明報告嗎"},{"start":10158.379,"end":10180.561,"text":"是 跟委員報告 海選署的部分那海選署的部分目前已經針對剛剛所提到的衣脫名職的查緝還有毒品查緝的部分已經成立了跨境勤資的延期收整的小組那目前都已經在任務編組已經在正式的運作當中那在最重要的部分我們會在高檢署的那個"},{"start":10181.982,"end":10199.75,"text":"戰情中心的指揮之下 全力來偵辦我們剛剛詢問的問題 請大家待會兒回答的是這個部分就是說你們現在認為你還有什麼比如你的手段工具 你的資源 你的預算還有哪些不足 是不是可以先就這個部分先提出來"},{"start":10201.144,"end":10211.18,"text":"跟委員報告那這個部分有關預算人力還有裝備的部分那目前我們現階段我們都可以滿足目前可以滿足好接下來另外"},{"start":10213.09,"end":10233.601,"text":"各位報告 調局這邊是希望能增加人力因為目前來看的話 桃園國際機場的第三航廈將於明年啟用那我們的人力略有不足 尤其是目前的所謂毒品很多是空中飛人 還有貨運進來的所以希望能增加這查緝的人力 以上報告除了人力以外 你沒有其他科技的作為嗎"},{"start":10234.301,"end":10250.491,"text":"那沒關係現在目前我們現在可能需要的是人力的部分這個也請國安單位其實就我們在開會會議當中其實也應該跟行政我們行政院提出這樣的一個需求我們一個一個來就是大家的需求是什麼"},{"start":10250.811,"end":10277.504,"text":"我大概跟委員說明一下國安局這邊我們大概在科技能量比較強所以針對科技的徵收的部分我們會提供我們相關的國安情報機關來強化這方面的能力包括暗網的徵收以及包括像我今天早上也跟媒體碰在說明無人機的一個操控的運用那這部分我們會來加強第二個是在政策面那行政院這邊因為它涉及到部會非常多應該有三位左右的政委在做專案的協調"},{"start":10278.624,"end":10303.632,"text":"所以政策面是不是有要再加強對於這些查緝案件的那個行政罰則的提高那這部分也有相關的一個討論另外這個執行面的執法面因為有高級主在指揮所以這部分有一個機制在做好那接下來內政部我們每一個單位我們先把自己的需求先提出來我想內政部這邊有幾個部分第一個就是說有關於獨家的這個測試試劑的精準度在提高這個我們現在在努力"},{"start":10304.392,"end":10323.527,"text":"那第二個就是有關於我們現在這個所有剛剛委員提到的先驅化學物質我們希望有一個緊急列管機制那這個部分透過毒防條例修正我們現在也在想辦法推動那還有搭配包括道安條道交條例跟冤案防治法修正整個我們把它做一個配套的一個處理"},{"start":10324.668,"end":10346.999,"text":"那最後一個就是說我們現在遠景在取締獨駕的一些作為我們有做調整就讓我們遠景的這個安全性跟取締獨駕的這個效果能夠更好大概是這幾個部分在努力 謝謝委員所以這個部分其實都已經在進行當中應該很快就可以有成果的就是我們所有的條件都可以符合滿足嘛是 謝謝委員那接下來下一個單位"},{"start":10351.583,"end":10371.27,"text":"跟委員報告,海關的部分除了人力之外,第一個我們在這個蜥蜴犬的部分會來加強的來增加這個一人一犬的這個組數現在有多少?現在有42組,42組蜥蜴犬所以就是42條蜥蜴犬的意思是,還有兩隻七煙犬"},{"start":10373.051,"end":10392.914,"text":"第二個部分,我們在貨物的S光影像的這個判讀的部分,導入人工智慧來幫助官員,就是輔助官員來判讀跟預警。這是我們要加強的部分。另外一個部分,就是在海關風險分析系統的部分。"},{"start":10393.675,"end":10417.325,"text":"可能就會要增加 比如說要增加移民署的一些資訊給他引入進來 那麼就可以擴大我們風險分析的效果 以上好 謝謝 接下來我們縣指部委員好 憲兵區分兩個部分報告因為憲兵最主要是針對軍人軍事案件那目前棄如犬 如光武署剛剛所說 我們現在目前總共18頭"},{"start":10419.6,"end":10437.235,"text":"18條是含在那42條裡面嗎 是另外分開的我們到明年也跟關務署那邊有一個簽訂因為現在18頭的話 劃分在北中南東的確還有量能上的不足後續在116年我們總共會增加到25頭來執行營區的勤務"},{"start":10442.319,"end":10460.635,"text":"那另外一部分就是我們這個行建中心在所有的裝備都比較老舊那在明年開始又有3億的預算會針對裡面的尿液篩檢等所有的機械做提升來強化我們的這個驗尿以及所有的真暗的能量以上報告"},{"start":10462.048,"end":10467.495,"text":"因為聽起來所有的單位大概都知道自己可能比較欠缺或者應該要即時要去補強或者應該要有的這些機制都已經有心裡都有盤算我們希望很快的因為我們剛剛提到從"},{"start":10478.428,"end":10484.07,"text":"20年這樣獨家的這樣的一個案件暴增200倍那如果說我們在座的各位都是所有相關最重要的在可能棄毒或者在防止這個毒品氾濫或者在可能在最後如果說把它繩之以法像這樣子大家如果可以通力合作那照你們的說法其實"},{"start":10504.016,"end":10517.612,"text":"錢還有很多資源還有很多條件其實都可以滿足的情況之下我們希望在很快的這些數據資料都可以明顯的降低這個可不可以做到對我們在努力那現在又有一個機制在推動"},{"start":10518.012,"end":10520.993,"text":"就剛剛提到這些我們請局長也可以做一個通盤的彙整然後我們把它整理出來我們希望看到的是數據資料就是它必須是下降的不然我們提供這麼多的資源或者這樣的相關的預算那你如果說還持續的增加那對不起我們所有的社會大眾我們還在這裡要特別強調因為今天教育部沒有過來"},{"start":10540.802,"end":10568.954,"text":"可是我們請國安局我們蔡局長可以提醒就這個部分尤其是教育界在我們所有學校怎麼樣去保護我們所有的孩子所有的學生去不受到這樣子的一個汙染或這樣子的殘害因為這種化學品的殘害是永久傷害是那種永久性的傷害這我們真的承擔不起這個部分也請局長可以特別的去"},{"start":10570.054,"end":10590.623,"text":"那績效管理的部分我們再來注意委員特別強調那個績效的部分那那個教育部政部長的部分我要跟他講好謝謝謝謝馬委員的質詢下一位是鄭天才鄭天才定產委員不在葉元之葉元之葉元之委員不在請陳冠廷委員質詢"},{"start":10625.309,"end":10645.611,"text":"我們請先請這個國防部憲兵指揮部指揮部張部長好"},{"start":10650.252,"end":10667.605,"text":"這個剛才有幾個委員好像有提到我們這個陸軍109旅的部分這個大家應該是剛才已經有提到了我們仔細看一下這個案件我們發覺到這是對國軍來講對我國的國防來說那是一件非常可怕的事情等一下我們也會請國安局一起來討論"},{"start":10670.007,"end":10691.937,"text":"為什麼會可怕的原因是在於說我發覺到軍中不僅是有藥頭藥頭跟煮頭竟然還結合在一起這是更令人覺得可怕也就是說從財務的問題到藥品濫用的問題我看起來它不是單一軍種它是也不是單從士官兵它甚至軍官都有可能這樣子完全的被滲透"},{"start":10692.757,"end":10719.456,"text":"所以我非常擔心這樣子的狀況因為我看到說這個包含這個起訴書齁有行賄班長班長黑吃黑就是查獲到毒品之後竟然還要鎖藥這個貪污然後再把他發回給藥品再發回因為他已經把他贖回這其實都是無法想像的喔也就是說這個是上下交鄉賊從官兵從兵到官全部都在這個體系裡面"},{"start":10720.757,"end":10736.356,"text":"我想請教一下在這一次的我們就講109里我都還不要講其他的案件包含醫務兵醫務兵來攜帶這個藥品不是藥品毒品進入營區也不是被查其實在做安全檢查的時候主動就說這個就是喪屍煙彈"},{"start":10738.433,"end":10755.36,"text":"所以一而再再而三那不是單一案件這可能是完整的網絡從主頭到要頭再漫延在各個軍中這個部分你們掌握的狀況是怎麼樣那相關的行政查處相關的行政懲處目前是做到什麼樣我現在不講法律面就講行政的懲處面的狀況"},{"start":10757.748,"end":10774.045,"text":"跟委員報告一下有關剛剛羅講這個腰動酒旅他這兩個案件是軍事訓練役在進入營區之後後面所產生的案件那當然他在營區內會去吸收"},{"start":10775.219,"end":10798.353,"text":"班長或是向上發展成為一個群組的一個網絡的一個販售跟交易那當然在單位報給我們先兵隊之後我們就會立即針對這些案件來實施偵辦那有關行政屬於法律部分當然就由我們來實施移送給檢察官實施偵辦那在行政懲處的部分"},{"start":10799.315,"end":10813.84,"text":"就該單位來實施辦理對我知道該單位來實施辦理我想請教一下就你的掌握該單位他們懲處到什麼樣的狀況懲職到什麼層級有誰負政治責任不太清楚官委員報告這個不太還不太清楚"},{"start":10815.516,"end":10843.305,"text":"我為什麼要講這件事情就是說我們現在在講法律責任法律責任當然是要負的那行政責任呢我看到我們的這個包含共諜案在憲兵自己本身就有我發現到一件事情就是說在行政懲處上面我們好像也當作不要不要緊的那種感覺就是過了一陣子之後反正大家沒有再提就沒事了反正沒關係法律面就法律面那你們這樣怎麼治軍啊行政面呢"},{"start":10844.333,"end":10865.523,"text":"跟委員報告一下今天我們關於郭邦委員會來召開這樣的會議你應該要本來就應該要預測我們應該會問類似的問題就是說他的行政懲處到誰這個你們沒有辦法掌握跟委員報告一下如果說有在營區內發生毒品案件這些原則上都會以計兩大過太處為主計兩大過太處到什麼層級"},{"start":10869.707,"end":10888.341,"text":"保持按照他的責任 按照他的責任劃分來做懲處按照他的責任如果以憲兵來講的話 都會基本上當事人都是移送法辦 然後計量大過 甚至撤職我們當然知道當事人 他的法律面他都已經要去關了他當然是 當然是撤職 我說在管理層面啊我就不是在講那個兵 不是在講那個班長"},{"start":10890.131,"end":10916.416,"text":"那他的管理層面上面也是會依照層級來做懲處好 那麻煩之後再跟我們講一下他的懲處到什麼樣的狀況以後要有這個案例出來之後以後我們的管理才會不要增強一點嘛不然大家都沒辦法 這樣是不對的嘛那數字呢 在整個軍中你們有大概掌握說我為什麼 我今天看到不管是法務部 內政部查緝多少公斤 多少原料 多少噸 多少公斤"},{"start":10917.456,"end":10945.329,"text":"這是他們外面輸入進來的這個東西我沒有辦法去知道說你這個查緝越多是代表什麼意義但我們可以知道是有多少的比例有沒有下降有沒有上升多少員多少人他被查獲在軍中多少人被影響他的組織犯罪狀況是怎麼樣這個是我們可以掌握的嘛是這個你不用到你海關去做海關該做的事情內政部警察再去做警察做的事情至少你們的數據要出來嘛有多少人受到影響"},{"start":10946.55,"end":10953.7,"text":"國安局有沒有這樣子的資料有沒有上報給你們大概國防部自己有沒有做相關的資料毒品相關的"},{"start":10955.114,"end":10977.712,"text":"一毒品別嘛 一級毒品二級別我想國安局這邊可能會比較從那個制度面的規劃那委員大概關注的重點是在於營區毒品安全的管理那第一部分我想剛剛參謀長也提到了營區在進出時候相關的一個安全檢查應該這個機制要更強化那第二個是在營區裡面的毒品的流通它到底是個案"},{"start":10978.352,"end":11007.315,"text":"還是是說有一些組織的交易的行為那這個部分可能也是一個重點那接下來才有另外一個問題是有沒有特定的犯罪組織特別把毒品以營區為主要的行銷的對象那像這種比較總體性的這些可能的樣態我想後續我們依照我們勤工法來制導統合協調那縣子部這邊來做再更進一步的釐清因為一個在桃園嘛那一個在祁山嘛"},{"start":11007.955,"end":11026.893,"text":"那我剛剛講到這個從毒品到這個財務上面的議題也就是說當主頭啦 賭博網站這不是我們一直在講的國安問題嗎這個哪一個被吸收 哪一個共點就回到我們今天在媒體在問到說我們講到教育講到愛國教育 反共愛國教育等等"},{"start":11027.819,"end":11038.458,"text":"我們先以任務為導向來做我們先講先不要講這個我們可能因為其實在進入軍中之前大概"},{"start":11039.838,"end":11057.876,"text":"這些兵員大概本身就已經有他們自己的價值觀但有些事情是可以做有些事情是不可以做的你可以閱讀你想要看的任何書籍憲法保障人民的自由那哪些是不可以做的包含這情報滲透包含這些賭博相關的組織滲透這些是要教育的"},{"start":11058.757,"end":11072.217,"text":"不是教條 不是在那邊在那邊站立牆然後重複這講十次或者是講這一個我不知道就是四零年代五年代國民黨的那種教育四年代國民黨的教育五年代國民黨的教育共諜有因此而減少嗎"},{"start":11073.052,"end":11089.682,"text":"沒有啊他一樣聖都在最高層啊同樣的那我們現在現代化現代化的這個國家戰略不是學五六零年代的這種國民黨的這種教條式的教育教條式的教育講了五十年之後還是一樣吧"},{"start":11090.582,"end":11108.358,"text":"那不是教條式的教育你就要很清楚的說你要怎麼樣反滲透怎麼樣反情報什麼是need to know什麼需要知道什麼不需要知道什麼樣的情報的傳遞方式什麼樣的安全查核你都要做嘛那你在跟我教條式的國防部在講這個回到國民黨時代的這種做法有什麼意義一樣嘛賭博"},{"start":11109.645,"end":11138.511,"text":"主投家要投主投家要投加共諜這樣子的會不斷的他把他聯繫起來那才是可怕那就是組織性犯罪如果只是賭博的話是財務性財務性的話當然有他的這個非常令人擔憂的部分但財務性的話或許還可以透過一些機制來去償還債務那當你有要贏的時候就等於說這一個這個系統剛才我們提到從班長下士到這些官兵接下來是官兵吸收"},{"start":11139.531,"end":11148.098,"text":"就像官兵吸收班長班長威脅官兵哇天啊這實在是這是很可怕的事情而且看起來南北大串聯"},{"start":11149.653,"end":11172.945,"text":"高雄也有 桃園也有 還有一些我們沒有查到的怎麼辦那其實軍中是社會的縮影嘛表示他們 等到他們還有裝病 裝病然後後來就免疫我聽了什麼花招都有 這是多麼可怕的事情 這是一個旅那所有 有藥頭 有煮頭 有裝病免疫的桃兵"},{"start":11175.23,"end":11184.642,"text":"那行政查處到哪裡 管理的責任到哪裡今天我們在委員會的時候這樣不知道這樣對嗎 好像不太對吧這樣子"},{"start":11185.814,"end":11212.075,"text":"這個情報你有掌握嗎這個已經滑稽到 這個是太可怕了 這個必須要處理局長有什麼看法這部分因為涉及到軍隊的管理那就藥品的查處的部分我想縣指部這邊我們再來跟他們加強做一些指導看重點要放在我剛剛跟委員報告的幾個面向那第二部分是在部隊內部除了行政查處以外"},{"start":11212.555,"end":11241.699,"text":"宣教也非常重要那這部分我們在跟我們國安情報單隊的政戰局也希望他們這一部分來加強做一些處理讓官兵弟兄不是只有單向的接受這些宣教而是能夠任意化成一般日常的一個行為來避免剛剛委員提到的問題對啦就是剛剛講的都對但是就是在強調就是責任啦責任政治行政的責任政治國會議員受到選民的監督每四年選一次那我發現我們現在行政的各位長官們好像"},{"start":11243.328,"end":11264.248,"text":"只要講一些政治的話,他好像不用負政策的責任,或者是負管理的責任,這樣不太對吧?行政上面的責任是什麼樣?那憲兵他是協助查處的,當然重中之重"},{"start":11265.185,"end":11287.026,"text":"但我應該不用提醒你們2025年你們有共諜四個軍人他們也有判七年的定讞喔那行政查處咧 後來到哪裡後來是有誰負政治責任 有嗎 有人負政治責任嗎我不是自問自答 我現在問有沒有人負政治責任沒關係 之後再跟我講到底管理到什麼的"},{"start":11288.342,"end":11314.217,"text":"到什麼樣的層級因為我們要公平嘛就是說不要說有些我們認為重要的大案就要叫人家負政治責任有些其實一樣重要但沒有所以一定要有相對的克責的制度那這個克責制度特別是在軍中還是有它的管理上面的我沒有要叫你們出法律的責任行政上面的責任是什麼不是該員兩大過太處他都要去關了太處對不對好 謝謝好 謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":11318.192,"end":11337.927,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請徐欣盈徐欣盈 徐欣盈委員不在我們今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有王定宇委員黃仁委員吳宗憲委員徐欣盈委員提出書面質詢請列入紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":11338.627,"end":11353.275,"text":"委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分會要求補充資料者請相關機關兩週內以書面答覆委員有指定期限者從其鎖定本日會議到此結束散會謝謝大家辛苦了謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}