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各位委員 大家早安大家好"},{"start":1931,"end":1934.8,"text":"接下來由我來向各位報告本院的業務概況"},{"start":1935.31,"end":1938.51,"text":"因為在廖前院長五月份的時候"},{"start":1938.51,"end":1940.87,"text":"就已經有跟各位做業務報告"},{"start":1940.87,"end":1943.83,"text":"所以我今天報告的重點是近期"},{"start":1943.83,"end":1945.83,"text":"任務的重點的摘要"},{"start":1946.66,"end":1948.18,"text":"在基礎研究上"},{"start":1948.18,"end":1951.66,"text":"本院的同仁在這短短的兩個月的時間"},{"start":1951.66,"end":1954.0600000000002,"text":"就有很好的研究成果"},{"start":1954.0600000000002,"end":1955.74,"text":"以數理科學組來說"},{"start":1955.74,"end":1958.3000000000002,"text":"台灣癌症登月計畫"},{"start":1958.3000000000002,"end":1960.94,"text":"揭露了肺癌的半徑激轉"},{"start":1960.94,"end":1963.74,"text":"也使得這個治療有新的契機"},{"start":1963.74,"end":1965.74,"text":"而且我們的地科所"},{"start":1966.71,"end":1969.75,"text":"發現在大劇玄武威力當中的童"},{"start":1969.75,"end":1972.95,"text":"實際上扮演一個很重要的"},{"start":1973.73,"end":1975.73,"text":"會進來的角色"},{"start":1975.73,"end":1977.73,"text":"那會造成細胞的傷害"},{"start":1977.73,"end":1979.93,"text":"第三是我們的防變中心"},{"start":1979.93,"end":1982.13,"text":"他也發現觀測這個"},{"start":1982.13,"end":1984.13,"text":"回萃水庫的狀況"},{"start":1984.13,"end":1987.53,"text":"發現生物多樣性其實是可以維持"},{"start":1987.53,"end":1989.53,"text":"這個生態健康的秘密"},{"start":1989.53,"end":1991.53,"text":"另外在生命科學方面"},{"start":1991.53,"end":1993.45,"text":"本院的生醫所"},{"start":1993.45,"end":1996.53,"text":"以現相關病毒載體"},{"start":1996.53,"end":1999.25,"text":"來遞送管校的綜合抗體"},{"start":1999.25,"end":2001.81,"text":"發現小鼠可以免除登革熱"},{"start":2001.8899999999999,"end":2003.8899999999999,"text":"跟癡卡病毒的感染"},{"start":2003.8899999999999,"end":2006.69,"text":"生物多樣性中心也發現"},{"start":2006.69,"end":2009.81,"text":"和日本跟英國跨國的合作當中"},{"start":2009.81,"end":2011.81,"text":"發現了這個"},{"start":2011.8,"end":2015,"text":"藻蟲和胎顯蟲的親緣關係"},{"start":2015,"end":2019,"text":"另外生醫所發現DNA修補的機制"},{"start":2019,"end":2020.2,"text":"可以相互抑制"},{"start":2020.2,"end":2024.2,"text":"可以促進同種異族生物的雜交繁衍"},{"start":2024.2,"end":2025.8,"text":"對於治療不孕症"},{"start":2025.8,"end":2028.3999999999999,"text":"還有癌症的精準治療"},{"start":2028.3999999999999,"end":2031,"text":"提供了很好的科學基礎"},{"start":2031,"end":2033.6,"text":"至於在人文跟社會科學方面"},{"start":2033.6,"end":2035.6,"text":"我們的進食所"},{"start":2036.6299999999999,"end":2039.23,"text":"黃志敬研究員出版了"},{"start":2039.23,"end":2043.23,"text":"《中日華北空房》這樣的一本書"},{"start":2043.23,"end":2045.23,"text":"長述了很重要的"},{"start":2045.23,"end":2047.83,"text":"當時中日華北空房"},{"start":2047.83,"end":2050.0299999999997,"text":"當時的安內郎外的政策"},{"start":2050.0299999999997,"end":2055.23,"text":"另外經濟所的紀君哲著研究員"},{"start":2055.23,"end":2056.43,"text":"他也發表了"},{"start":2056.43,"end":2058.43,"text":"最適銀行準備金複習"},{"start":2058.43,"end":2060.43,"text":"跟資本管理的政策"},{"start":2060.43,"end":2065.63,"text":"社會所也有一本很重要的論文"},{"start":2065.63,"end":2067.23,"text":"有一個論文刊登"},{"start":2067.23,"end":2068.83,"text":"在臺灣社會學刊"},{"start":2068.83,"end":2071.23,"text":"是臺灣企業精英的結構特徵"},{"start":2071.23,"end":2075.03,"text":"社會空間取經的分析"},{"start":2075.03,"end":2076.83,"text":"這些研究實際上"},{"start":2076.83,"end":2079.4300000000003,"text":"除了在學術研究上相當的重要"},{"start":2079.4300000000003,"end":2082.4300000000003,"text":"更重要的對於政府的決策"},{"start":2082.4300000000003,"end":2085.03,"text":"還有相關的社會上"},{"start":2085.03,"end":2087.03,"text":"怎麼來因應可能的挑戰"},{"start":2087.03,"end":2088.4300000000003,"text":"都很有幫助"},{"start":2088.4300000000003,"end":2090.23,"text":"接下來也跟各位報告"},{"start":2090.23,"end":2092.23,"text":"我們原住民族的研究"},{"start":2092.23,"end":2094.4300000000003,"text":"本院積極重視"},{"start":2094.43,"end":2095.43,"text":"極度重視"},{"start":2096.04,"end":2098.44,"text":"本土還有原住民知識的"},{"start":2098.44,"end":2100.84,"text":"體系的建構"},{"start":2100.84,"end":2103.24,"text":"所以民主手一向都會推動"},{"start":2104.48,"end":2106.28,"text":"文物返鄉的共作展"},{"start":2106.28,"end":2108.0800000000004,"text":"到現在已經是第六屆"},{"start":2108.0800000000004,"end":2110.6800000000003,"text":"跟卓族合作展出了"},{"start":2110.6800000000003,"end":2112.48,"text":"民主手博物館當中"},{"start":2112.48,"end":2115.0800000000004,"text":"典藏超過半世紀的珍貴文物"},{"start":2115.0800000000004,"end":2117.6800000000003,"text":"並且持續來推動原住民部落"},{"start":2118.64,"end":2120.04,"text":"服務講著的計畫"},{"start":2120.04,"end":2122.24,"text":"希望年輕的學員"},{"start":2122.24,"end":2124.04,"text":"能夠發掘部落的資源"},{"start":2124.04,"end":2125.24,"text":"向學術研究"},{"start":2125.24,"end":2128.44,"text":"真正來促進地方文化的再生"},{"start":2128.44,"end":2130.24,"text":"本院也在"},{"start":2131.66,"end":2133.06,"text":"7月6號到9號"},{"start":2133.06,"end":2135.46,"text":"舉行了第36次的院士會議"},{"start":2135.46,"end":2137.46,"text":"在這一次院士會議當中"},{"start":2137.46,"end":2139.46,"text":"我們很高興能夠請到"},{"start":2139.46,"end":2141.2599999999998,"text":"美國工程學院的前院長"},{"start":2141.2599999999998,"end":2142.66,"text":"還有現任的院長"},{"start":2142.66,"end":2144.66,"text":"來聚焦到工程創新"},{"start":2144.66,"end":2147.06,"text":"跟全球科研合作方面"},{"start":2147.06,"end":2148.66,"text":"另外我們也邀請了"},{"start":2148.66,"end":2150.06,"text":"國科會的吳祖偉"},{"start":2150.06,"end":2152.46,"text":"還有教育部的曾部長"},{"start":2152.46,"end":2153.66,"text":"進行專題討論"},{"start":2153.66,"end":2155.8599999999997,"text":"就國家科研發展的方向"},{"start":2155.8599999999997,"end":2158.06,"text":"跟人才培育提供了"},{"start":2158.06,"end":2159.06,"text":"寶貴的意見"},{"start":2159.06,"end":2160.8599999999997,"text":"讓我們能夠進行交流"},{"start":2160.86,"end":2162.46,"text":"這一次的院士選舉"},{"start":2162.46,"end":2164.86,"text":"從提名審查票選"},{"start":2164.86,"end":2166.06,"text":"到最終的結果"},{"start":2166.06,"end":2169.26,"text":"都是依照這個辦法來進行"},{"start":2169.26,"end":2171.26,"text":"過程相當的嚴謹"},{"start":2171.26,"end":2172.6600000000003,"text":"經過多次審查"},{"start":2172.6600000000003,"end":2174.6600000000003,"text":"這一次通過的新科院士"},{"start":2174.6600000000003,"end":2175.6600000000003,"text":"有19名"},{"start":2175.6600000000003,"end":2177.26,"text":"民運院士有3名"},{"start":2177.26,"end":2179.86,"text":"從第31屆到35屆"},{"start":2179.86,"end":2182.26,"text":"這個人數大概在20上下"},{"start":2182.26,"end":2184.6600000000003,"text":"只有第35屆的時候"},{"start":2184.6600000000003,"end":2186.86,"text":"28位多一點"},{"start":2186.86,"end":2188.26,"text":"這一次與會的院士"},{"start":2188.26,"end":2190.26,"text":"有高達到200人"},{"start":2190.26,"end":2193.46,"text":"另外跟各位來報告"},{"start":2193.46,"end":2195.0600000000004,"text":"就是本院同仁"},{"start":2195.0600000000004,"end":2197.26,"text":"近期的有蠻多的"},{"start":2197.26,"end":2198.6600000000003,"text":"資深的研究員"},{"start":2198.6600000000003,"end":2200.26,"text":"得到了國際的獎項"},{"start":2200.26,"end":2202.6600000000003,"text":"而且年輕的研究員"},{"start":2202.6600000000003,"end":2205.26,"text":"也得到不少的國際獎項"},{"start":2205.26,"end":2206.26,"text":"像是"},{"start":2207.43,"end":2208.43,"text":"歐洲分子組織"},{"start":2208.43,"end":2209.83,"text":"AMBL的年輕學者"},{"start":2209.83,"end":2211.0299999999997,"text":"或者全球學者"},{"start":2211.0299999999997,"end":2213.43,"text":"我們研究員都能夠擔任"},{"start":2213.43,"end":2215.23,"text":"另外國科會的傑出獎"},{"start":2215.23,"end":2216.43,"text":"還有傑出特約獎"},{"start":2216.43,"end":2219.0299999999997,"text":"以及無大有獎的得獎人數也很多"},{"start":2219.0299999999997,"end":2221.6299999999997,"text":"我們也拓展了國際交流"},{"start":2221.6299999999997,"end":2223.83,"text":"像最近我們跟蒙古科學院的"},{"start":2223.83,"end":2225.23,"text":"生物研究所"},{"start":2225.23,"end":2227.83,"text":"簽訂了合作協定"},{"start":2227.83,"end":2231.0299999999997,"text":"這一個是有四方的合作協定"},{"start":2231.0299999999997,"end":2233.0299999999997,"text":"雙方就公共衛生政策"},{"start":2233.0299999999997,"end":2234.23,"text":"病毒肝炎防治"},{"start":2234.23,"end":2235.43,"text":"生物醫學研究"},{"start":2235.43,"end":2236.43,"text":"還有人才培育"},{"start":2236.43,"end":2238.0299999999997,"text":"做了深入的交流"},{"start":2239.61,"end":2242.21,"text":"另外我們也來加強"},{"start":2242.21,"end":2244.01,"text":"國際交流"},{"start":2244.01,"end":2246.81,"text":"包括中研院跟京都大學"},{"start":2246.81,"end":2248.61,"text":"跟加州洛杉磯分校"},{"start":2248.61,"end":2251.21,"text":"UCLA的三邊合作"},{"start":2251.21,"end":2253.61,"text":"我們也設立了中研院的講座"},{"start":2253.61,"end":2256.61,"text":"邀請諾貝爾獎得主來進行演講"},{"start":2256.61,"end":2258.81,"text":"接下來也跟各位報告"},{"start":2258.81,"end":2262.4100000000003,"text":"我們南部院區的執行進度"},{"start":2262.4100000000003,"end":2263.81,"text":"在關鍵議題方面"},{"start":2263.81,"end":2266.01,"text":"或者人文社會基地方面"},{"start":2266.01,"end":2267.61,"text":"都進行的相當順利"},{"start":2267.61,"end":2270.01,"text":"特別是靜零科技跟量子科技"},{"start":2270.01,"end":2271.4100000000003,"text":"兩大研究組合"},{"start":2271.4100000000003,"end":2273.4100000000003,"text":"都有很好的成果"},{"start":2273.4100000000003,"end":2277.61,"text":"另外就是研究成果的落地應用方面"},{"start":2277.61,"end":2278.4100000000003,"text":"我們"},{"start":2279.37,"end":2282.17,"text":"實際上從113年起"},{"start":2282.17,"end":2283.97,"text":"統一全院核心設施"},{"start":2283.97,"end":2286.97,"text":"對全國學研界的標準受惠"},{"start":2286.97,"end":2288.37,"text":"使全國的學研界"},{"start":2288.37,"end":2290.5699999999997,"text":"都能夠用到我們的核心設施"},{"start":2290.5699999999997,"end":2294.17,"text":"我們也精進我們的學位學程"},{"start":2294.17,"end":2295.37,"text":"跟獎勵機制"},{"start":2295.37,"end":2298.17,"text":"推動了國際研究生學程TIGP"},{"start":2298.17,"end":2299.97,"text":"而且有中研院學者"},{"start":2299.97,"end":2302.17,"text":"最後跟各位報告"},{"start":2302.17,"end":2305.17,"text":"中研研究院未來的五年發展方向"},{"start":2305.17,"end":2306.97,"text":"包括追求學術作業"},{"start":2306.97,"end":2311.1699999999996,"text":"打造中研院成為亞太卓越研究中心"},{"start":2311.1699999999996,"end":2314.37,"text":"然後善盡社會的責任"},{"start":2314.37,"end":2316.97,"text":"最後就是知識傳承跟公共溝通"},{"start":2316.97,"end":2317.97,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":2317.97,"end":2320.1699999999996,"text":"敬請各位委員指教"},{"start":2320.1699999999996,"end":2320.97,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2320.97,"end":2321.5699999999997,"text":"好"},{"start":2321.5699999999997,"end":2323.5699999999997,"text":"謝謝陳院長的報告"},{"start":2325.47,"end":2327.0699999999997,"text":"機關代表報告完畢"},{"start":2327.0699999999997,"end":2329.27,"text":"相關的書面資料請各位參閱"},{"start":2329.27,"end":2330.87,"text":"並列入公報紀錄"},{"start":2330.87,"end":2333.47,"text":"現在我們開始進行詢答"},{"start":2333.47,"end":2336.6699999999996,"text":"每位出席委員質詢時間是四分鐘"},{"start":2336.6699999999996,"end":2338.6699999999996,"text":"必要時延長兩分鐘"},{"start":2338.6699999999996,"end":2341.87,"text":"列席委員質詢時間是四分鐘"},{"start":2341.87,"end":2346.0699999999997,"text":"發言登記截止的時間是上午的十點三十分"},{"start":2346.0699999999997,"end":2347.87,"text":"委員如果有臨時提案"},{"start":2347.87,"end":2350.6699999999996,"text":"請在十點三十分之前提出"},{"start":2350.6699999999996,"end":2353.87,"text":"並與本會委員伍力華質詢結束後"},{"start":2353.87,"end":2354.87,"text":"進行處理"},{"start":2354.87,"end":2356.0699999999997,"text":"處理提案時"},{"start":2356.0699999999997,"end":2358.87,"text":"如果提案委員及聯署委員均不在場"},{"start":2358.87,"end":2360.47,"text":"原例不予處理"},{"start":2360.47,"end":2362.87,"text":"首先我們請登記第一位的"},{"start":2362.87,"end":2364.87,"text":"柯志恩委員進行詢答"},{"start":2369.95,"end":2370.55,"text":"謝謝莊委"},{"start":2370.55,"end":2372.15,"text":"我們先請陳院長"},{"start":2372.15,"end":2373.15,"text":"有請陳院長"},{"start":2377.09,"end":2378.09,"text":"莊委員早"},{"start":2378.09,"end":2379.29,"text":"院長早"},{"start":2379.29,"end":2380.29,"text":"同樣叫院長"},{"start":2380.29,"end":2381.69,"text":"不過之前在質詢台上"},{"start":2381.69,"end":2383.29,"text":"之前就是叫行政院長"},{"start":2383.29,"end":2385.09,"text":"現在是中研院的院長"},{"start":2385.09,"end":2386.8900000000003,"text":"我想這院長你在這個"},{"start":2386.8900000000003,"end":2389.69,"text":"學術專業跟研究成就上是無可厚非"},{"start":2389.69,"end":2391.29,"text":"大家都非常的一個敬重"},{"start":2391.29,"end":2391.8900000000003,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":2391.8900000000003,"end":2393.69,"text":"因為你擔任過行政院長"},{"start":2393.69,"end":2395.69,"text":"還有一連串的政治的資歷"},{"start":2395.69,"end":2398.09,"text":"我今天第一個開始要針對於外界"},{"start":2398.09,"end":2399.4900000000002,"text":"對於你政治中立"},{"start":2399.4900000000002,"end":2401.8900000000003,"text":"還有一些觀感的一些的關注"},{"start":2401.8900000000003,"end":2402.8900000000003,"text":"因為無可否認的"},{"start":2402.8900000000003,"end":2405.8900000000003,"text":"這個在場每一位都是在我們學士界當中"},{"start":2405.89,"end":2408.29,"text":"都是值牛耳的一個地位"},{"start":2408.29,"end":2410.29,"text":"那我想過去中研院的院長"},{"start":2410.29,"end":2411.49,"text":"大家也普遍認為"},{"start":2411.49,"end":2413.89,"text":"應該是保持政治上的一個中立"},{"start":2413.89,"end":2415.49,"text":"那首先請問一下"},{"start":2415.49,"end":2417.29,"text":"特別是陳院長"},{"start":2417.29,"end":2419.29,"text":"你當初辭去的這個臨選"},{"start":2419.29,"end":2422.29,"text":"院長的臨選委員會的副召集人之後"},{"start":2422.29,"end":2424.89,"text":"馬上就會變成被提名人"},{"start":2424.89,"end":2427.49,"text":"那外界當然有很多的一個討論"},{"start":2427.49,"end":2428.49,"text":"那我想請問院長"},{"start":2428.49,"end":2431.0899999999997,"text":"你現在還是具有民進黨黨員的身份嗎"},{"start":2431.0899999999997,"end":2431.89,"text":"我有"},{"start":2431.89,"end":2432.49,"text":"好"},{"start":2432.49,"end":2434.69,"text":"那你如何認為自己未來"},{"start":2434.69,"end":2437.4900000000002,"text":"能夠確保中研院維持超然獨立"},{"start":2437.4900000000002,"end":2438.69,"text":"跟學術的中立"},{"start":2438.69,"end":2441.29,"text":"不會受到任何政黨的影響"},{"start":2441.29,"end":2442.69,"text":"我擔任任何的角色"},{"start":2442.69,"end":2446.09,"text":"都會嚴守這個角色應該有的"},{"start":2446.09,"end":2447.29,"text":"這樣的一個作為"},{"start":2447.29,"end":2450.29,"text":"那我現在既然擔任中研研究院的院長"},{"start":2450.29,"end":2453.69,"text":"我會努力來追求學術中立"},{"start":2453.69,"end":2454.29,"text":"更重要的"},{"start":2454.29,"end":2455.4900000000002,"text":"我覺得這次非常的重要"},{"start":2455.4900000000002,"end":2457.29,"text":"因為當過副院副總統"},{"start":2457.29,"end":2459.29,"text":"卸任之後也擔任小英支友會的"},{"start":2459.29,"end":2460.69,"text":"榮譽的總會長"},{"start":2460.69,"end":2463.4900000000002,"text":"而且在2023年擔任我們的行政院長"},{"start":2463.6899999999996,"end":2466.49,"text":"我想幫民進黨做這麼公共事務"},{"start":2466.49,"end":2469.29,"text":"你現在要從一個民進黨的政黨的要角"},{"start":2469.29,"end":2472.49,"text":"變成一個學術超然獨立的一個學者"},{"start":2472.49,"end":2473.6899999999996,"text":"那我想院長"},{"start":2473.6899999999996,"end":2475.0899999999997,"text":"我們大家還是想了解"},{"start":2475.0899999999997,"end":2476.6899999999996,"text":"未來你有哪一些的措施"},{"start":2476.6899999999996,"end":2478.49,"text":"或有哪一些的部分"},{"start":2478.49,"end":2481.0899999999997,"text":"還有包括你給總統的政策建言"},{"start":2481.0899999999997,"end":2484.49,"text":"完全能夠根據科學與專業的判斷"},{"start":2484.49,"end":2485.89,"text":"來做這樣的一個依據嗎"},{"start":2485.89,"end":2487.89,"text":"我本身就是一個學者"},{"start":2487.89,"end":2490.6899999999996,"text":"學術研究是我的終身最愛"},{"start":2490.6899999999996,"end":2492.29,"text":"那公共服務呢"},{"start":2492.29,"end":2496.29,"text":"是我覺得是對社會使命的回應"},{"start":2496.29,"end":2497.49,"text":"所以我未來呢"},{"start":2497.49,"end":2499.69,"text":"擔任莊院長"},{"start":2499.69,"end":2502.69,"text":"當然會完全做學術專業的立場"},{"start":2502.69,"end":2505.29,"text":"提供總統有關於政策的"},{"start":2505.29,"end":2507.69,"text":"好 院長我們期許你回到你的最愛"},{"start":2507.69,"end":2510.29,"text":"然後完全根據這些數字來去說話"},{"start":2510.29,"end":2511.69,"text":"根據證據來去說話"},{"start":2511.69,"end":2513.49,"text":"那我想我們還是要請教院長"},{"start":2513.49,"end":2514.69,"text":"因為現在目前為止"},{"start":2514.69,"end":2516.09,"text":"鬧得沸沸揚揚的這個"},{"start":2516.09,"end":2518.09,"text":"獨有的食安的一個風暴"},{"start":2518.09,"end":2521.09,"text":"我記得院長在你在2015年的"},{"start":2521.09,"end":2523.69,"text":"這個副總統的政見發表會當中"},{"start":2523.69,"end":2524.69,"text":"你曾經提出的"},{"start":2524.69,"end":2527.29,"text":"大家覺得你這句話講得非常好的"},{"start":2527.29,"end":2530.09,"text":"就是告訴我們食安問題層出不窮"},{"start":2530.09,"end":2531.4900000000002,"text":"今天餐桌上的食物"},{"start":2531.4900000000002,"end":2534.09,"text":"會不會變成明天的頭條新聞"},{"start":2534.09,"end":2536.4900000000002,"text":"那是你在2015年所提到的"},{"start":2536.4900000000002,"end":2537.4900000000002,"text":"沒有錯吧"},{"start":2537.4900000000002,"end":2539.09,"text":"但是過了11年"},{"start":2539.09,"end":2541.8900000000003,"text":"你覺得我們現在食安問題還是存在嗎"},{"start":2541.8900000000003,"end":2543.4900000000002,"text":"是存在的"},{"start":2543.4900000000002,"end":2544.29,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":2544.29,"end":2546.29,"text":"而且你在副總統的政見上說"},{"start":2546.29,"end":2547.4900000000002,"text":"你特別提到"},{"start":2547.6899999999996,"end":2551.0899999999997,"text":"每一次的產官學研的這個食安研討會當中"},{"start":2551.0899999999997,"end":2552.49,"text":"你就不斷的在建議"},{"start":2552.49,"end":2555.0899999999997,"text":"應該跨部會的這個食安匯報"},{"start":2555.0899999999997,"end":2557.29,"text":"就像以前的情流感的這個"},{"start":2557.29,"end":2559.29,"text":"非常頻繁的這個匯報"},{"start":2559.29,"end":2560.49,"text":"每兩週開片一次"},{"start":2560.49,"end":2562.49,"text":"你覺得現在政府有做到嗎"},{"start":2562.49,"end":2565.29,"text":"我在擔任行政院院長的時候"},{"start":2565.29,"end":2567.89,"text":"這個成立了"},{"start":2567.89,"end":2570.29,"text":"這個行政院的這個食安匯報"},{"start":2570.29,"end":2571.89,"text":"實際上都有在召開"},{"start":2571.89,"end":2572.89,"text":"而且最重要的"},{"start":2572.89,"end":2574.29,"text":"我相信食安的問題"},{"start":2574.29,"end":2576.0899999999997,"text":"是中央跟地方要密切合作"},{"start":2576.0899999999997,"end":2576.89,"text":"我完全同意"},{"start":2576.89,"end":2579.0899999999997,"text":"但是院長我還是要提醒"},{"start":2579.0899999999997,"end":2579.49,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":2579.49,"end":2580.89,"text":"因為你在2024年"},{"start":2580.89,"end":2583.0899999999997,"text":"在行政院院長任內的時候"},{"start":2583.0899999999997,"end":2586.29,"text":"你對於有關於執政8年的食安問題"},{"start":2586.29,"end":2587.89,"text":"你有做一個總檢討"},{"start":2587.89,"end":2589.69,"text":"那時候你特別提到了"},{"start":2589.69,"end":2591.29,"text":"食安問題大部分"},{"start":2591.29,"end":2594.0899999999997,"text":"屬於2008到2015馬政府時代"},{"start":2594.0899999999997,"end":2597.29,"text":"通常都是屬於系統性的問題"},{"start":2597.29,"end":2599.69,"text":"那蔡總統有了食安五環之後"},{"start":2599.69,"end":2601.29,"text":"因為做了很多的食安的部分"},{"start":2601.29,"end":2603.0899999999997,"text":"現在變成個案的問題"},{"start":2603.0899999999997,"end":2603.69,"text":"但是不好意思"},{"start":2603.69,"end":2605.29,"text":"再過了一個月之後"},{"start":2605.29,"end":2608.09,"text":"發生了蘇丹紅的一個事件"},{"start":2608.09,"end":2609.89,"text":"而且衛福部馬上來告訴我們"},{"start":2609.89,"end":2611.29,"text":"這是屬於系統性的問題"},{"start":2611.29,"end":2613.29,"text":"不是單純你所說的個案問題"},{"start":2613.29,"end":2614.59,"text":"我想想請問"},{"start":2614.59,"end":2617.89,"text":"目前來說從你的專業的角度來去看"},{"start":2617.89,"end":2621.29,"text":"最近從初期的1300公噸的這個問題"},{"start":2621.29,"end":2623.69,"text":"到3900公噸的目前"},{"start":2623.69,"end":2626.99,"text":"這樣那個上萬噸的這個有品流入的市面"},{"start":2626.99,"end":2628.49,"text":"你認為這是系統性的問題"},{"start":2628.49,"end":2629.79,"text":"還是還是屬於個案的問題"},{"start":2629.79,"end":2631.49,"text":"這是產商的匿報呢"},{"start":2631.49,"end":2632.69,"text":"使得這一個整個"},{"start":2632.69,"end":2634.09,"text":"所以這是系統性的問題"},{"start":2634.09,"end":2635.29,"text":"還是屬於個案性的問題"},{"start":2635.29,"end":2637.29,"text":"這個是系統性的問題"},{"start":2637.29,"end":2639.59,"text":"當然是系統性的問題對不對"},{"start":2639.59,"end":2641.29,"text":"所以不是只有在一些什麼"},{"start":2641.29,"end":2642.4900000000002,"text":"我們要就事論事"},{"start":2642.4900000000002,"end":2644.59,"text":"不是只有一個個案的問題"},{"start":2644.59,"end":2646.29,"text":"而且最重要的原因是"},{"start":2646.29,"end":2648.09,"text":"當初你當行政院長的時候"},{"start":2648.09,"end":2650.29,"text":"你非常果敢的馬上就下架"},{"start":2650.29,"end":2651.4900000000002,"text":"馬上就下架"},{"start":2651.4900000000002,"end":2652.9900000000002,"text":"這是我們要給你肯定的"},{"start":2652.9900000000002,"end":2654.69,"text":"但是現在的行政院長"},{"start":2654.69,"end":2656.79,"text":"卻是搞得一個禮拜還不下架"},{"start":2656.79,"end":2657.4900000000002,"text":"你對於他這樣"},{"start":2657.4900000000002,"end":2659.59,"text":"你是不是覺得他真的是過得太慢了"},{"start":2659.59,"end":2660.29,"text":"院長"},{"start":2660.29,"end":2662.3900000000003,"text":"我想最主要的是通報的過程"},{"start":2662.3900000000003,"end":2663.8900000000003,"text":"那我就我所了解"},{"start":2663.89,"end":2665.29,"text":"通報以後的隔天呢"},{"start":2665.29,"end":2667.49,"text":"衛福部呢就展開了行動"},{"start":2667.49,"end":2669.29,"text":"所以這一個通報的時程"},{"start":2669.29,"end":2670.49,"text":"實際上是最重要"},{"start":2670.49,"end":2672.99,"text":"隱匿的話使得這個整個的時程"},{"start":267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.62,"end":2830.52,"text":"沒有社會共識"},{"start":2830.52,"end":2831.72,"text":"完全了解"},{"start":2831.72,"end":2834.22,"text":"但是你以前在當行政院長的時候"},{"start":2834.22,"end":2835.8199999999997,"text":"你的非核的這個方向"},{"start":2835.8199999999997,"end":2837.3199999999997,"text":"都是你所提到的"},{"start":2837.3199999999997,"end":2839.72,"text":"但是現在我們的賴總統要重新"},{"start":2839.72,"end":2841.22,"text":"考慮到這個核電"},{"start":2841.22,"end":2843.12,"text":"而且我也問過這個當初的"},{"start":2843.12,"end":2845.3199999999997,"text":"中研院曾經做過核融合的"},{"start":2845.32,"end":2846.32,"text":"這個技術"},{"start":2846.32,"end":2847.7200000000003,"text":"但是中研院告訴我"},{"start":2847.7200000000003,"end":2848.82,"text":"其實核融合的技術"},{"start":2848.82,"end":2850.7200000000003,"text":"沒有那麼快能夠來成形"},{"start":2850.7200000000003,"end":2851.6200000000003,"text":"所以我只問"},{"start":2851.6200000000003,"end":2853.92,"text":"你在能源轉型的這個過程當中"},{"start":2853.92,"end":2854.92,"text":"還是會繼續往"},{"start":2854.92,"end":2856.6200000000003,"text":"核能的方向來做研發"},{"start":2856.6200000000003,"end":2857.52,"text":"研進嗎"},{"start":2857.52,"end":2859.52,"text":"最近我們在淨零科技的部分"},{"start":2859.52,"end":2860.52,"text":"沒有包括核能"},{"start":2860.52,"end":2862.02,"text":"是包括了太陽能"},{"start":2862.02,"end":2863.82,"text":"地熱能等等"},{"start":2863.82,"end":2864.2200000000003,"text":"好"},{"start":2864.2200000000003,"end":2864.82,"text":"還有方電能"},{"start":2864.82,"end":2866.32,"text":"但是我還是要強調"},{"start":2866.32,"end":2867.2200000000003,"text":"以過去來說"},{"start":2867.2200000000003,"end":2869.7200000000003,"text":"你們認為簡泰也是在你的這個"},{"start":2869.7200000000003,"end":2870.52,"text":"報告當中"},{"start":2870.52,"end":2873.32,"text":"淨零轉型都是你們非常重要的一個點"},{"start":2873.32,"end":2875.2200000000003,"text":"但是淨零轉型我還是要強調"},{"start":2875.22,"end":2877.22,"text":"根據數據來去看的話"},{"start":2877.22,"end":2879.8199999999997,"text":"很顯然距離還是有一大段的一個差別"},{"start":2879.8199999999997,"end":2882.72,"text":"所以要達到你們當初所設定的這個目標裡面"},{"start":2882.72,"end":2885.02,"text":"我覺得還是有非常大的一個空間"},{"start":2885.02,"end":2885.62,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":2885.62,"end":2887.62,"text":"既然院長也當過行政院長"},{"start":2887.62,"end":2888.8199999999997,"text":"你也知道執行上的困難"},{"start":2888.8199999999997,"end":2890.3199999999997,"text":"你也知道事情上的困難"},{"start":2890.3199999999997,"end":2891.8199999999997,"text":"其實你在做研究的時候"},{"start":2891.8199999999997,"end":2893.02,"text":"未來的整個"},{"start":2893.02,"end":2894.02,"text":"在研究的配比"},{"start":2894.02,"end":2895.12,"text":"研究的方向上面"},{"start":2895.12,"end":2897.02,"text":"能夠供進務實給台灣一個"},{"start":2897.02,"end":2899.52,"text":"真正你覺得可以做到達到的目標"},{"start":2899.52,"end":2900.62,"text":"我覺得這才是"},{"start":2900.62,"end":2902.22,"text":"身為一個院長"},{"start":2902.22,"end":2904.12,"text":"該主導的一個重要的一個角色"},{"start":2904.12,"end":2905.92,"text":"我們會較強進行排放的研究"},{"start":2905.92,"end":2906.62,"text":"好"},{"start":2906.62,"end":2907.8199999999997,"text":"好"},{"start":2907.8199999999997,"end":2909.72,"text":"謝謝柯志恩委員的質詢"},{"start":2909.72,"end":2910.72,"text":"請院長回座"},{"start":2911.69,"end":2913.39,"text":"接下來我們有請"},{"start":2913.39,"end":2914.69,"text":"羅庭偉 趙薇"},{"start":2919.15,"end":2919.85,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":2919.85,"end":2920.9500000000003,"text":"有請院長"},{"start":2920.9500000000003,"end":2922.05,"text":"好 有請院長"},{"start":2925.6,"end":2926.1,"text":"羅庭偉好"},{"start":2926.71,"end":2927.71,"text":"好 院長好"},{"start":2927.71,"end":2928.81,"text":"院長好久不見"},{"start":2928.81,"end":2929.11,"text":"對"},{"start":2929.77,"end":2932.67,"text":"首先恭喜院長接任中研院"},{"start":2932.67,"end":2934.97,"text":"那我想除了中研院士"},{"start":2934.97,"end":2937.47,"text":"在學術上翻開你的經歷"},{"start":2938.26,"end":2940.46,"text":"不管是承認中研院副院長"},{"start":2940.46,"end":2942.0600000000004,"text":"還承認國科會副主委"},{"start":2942.68,"end":2945.48,"text":"衛生署的署長 副總統"},{"start":2945.48,"end":2946.98,"text":"行政院院長"},{"start":2946.98,"end":2948.68,"text":"我想應該很難有人"},{"start":2948.68,"end":2951.68,"text":"可以超越你的成就跟這些經歷"},{"start":2951.68,"end":2953.08,"text":"那這些豐富的經歷"},{"start":2953.08,"end":2956.3799999999997,"text":"也會為你接下來擔任中研院院長"},{"start":2956.3799999999997,"end":2958.8799999999997,"text":"帶來很重要的一些經驗"},{"start":2959.55,"end":2961.55,"text":"那我想2023年"},{"start":2961.55,"end":2962.55,"text":"各位說是"},{"start":2963.2,"end":2964.6,"text":"人生最後一個公子"},{"start":2965.85,"end":2967.0499999999997,"text":"到現在重新回到了"},{"start":2967.0499999999997,"end":2968.15,"text":"首席的立法院"},{"start":2968.15,"end":2970.0499999999997,"text":"接受國會的監督"},{"start":2970.0499999999997,"end":2972.5499999999997,"text":"請問對當時那一句"},{"start":2972.5499999999997,"end":2973.75,"text":"人生最後的公子"},{"start":2973.75,"end":2975.75,"text":"現在回過頭來"},{"start":2975.75,"end":2977.5499999999997,"text":"我們又回到了立法院"},{"start":2977.5499999999997,"end":2978.35,"text":"接受監督"},{"start":2978.35,"end":2980.15,"text":"擔任中研院院長"},{"start":2980.15,"end":2981.25,"text":"來服務國人"},{"start":2981.25,"end":2982.65,"text":"有沒有什麼想法"},{"start":2982.65,"end":2983.95,"text":"中研院的院長"},{"start":2983.95,"end":2985.65,"text":"本身就是特別研究員"},{"start":2985.65,"end":2987.85,"text":"所以也是從事學術的研究"},{"start":2987.85,"end":2991.25,"text":"那我剛才已經回答科委員"},{"start":2991.25,"end":2992.0499999999997,"text":"他也有問嗎"},{"start":2992.0499999999997,"end":2994.65,"text":"學術研究是我的最愛"},{"start":2994.75,"end":2997.05,"text":"所以我回到我學術研究的領域"},{"start":2997.05,"end":2998.35,"text":"那公共服務"},{"start":2998.35,"end":3000.9500000000003,"text":"我覺得是對國家跟社會的使命"},{"start":3000.9500000000003,"end":3002.35,"text":"我也會認真來做好"},{"start":3002.35,"end":3003.85,"text":"好 謝謝 一起加油"},{"start":3003.85,"end":3006.05,"text":"兩年一度的中研院院士"},{"start":3006.05,"end":3007.55,"text":"會議剛落幕"},{"start":3007.55,"end":3009.25,"text":"同樣身為中研院院士的"},{"start":3009.25,"end":3010.05,"text":"管仲敏院士"},{"start":3010.05,"end":3012.55,"text":"他在臉書特別發文說"},{"start":3012.55,"end":3014.15,"text":"看似幾天熱鬧的會議"},{"start":3014.15,"end":3015.05,"text":"我注意到社會"},{"start":3015.05,"end":3017.25,"text":"其實對此並不關心"},{"start":3017.25,"end":3018.75,"text":"還特別括號表示"},{"start":3018.75,"end":3020.35,"text":"和早年很不相同"},{"start":3020.35,"end":3021.35,"text":"那院長請問一下"},{"start":3021.35,"end":3022.75,"text":"那你自己什麼感覺"},{"start":3022.75,"end":3026.35,"text":"社會有在關注中研院院士的會議嗎"},{"start":3026.35,"end":3027.25,"text":"你覺得呢"},{"start":3027.25,"end":3028.15,"text":"當然有"},{"start":3028.15,"end":3030.65,"text":"如果從報章雜誌來看的話"},{"start":3030.65,"end":3032.05,"text":"我們的同仁告訴我"},{"start":3032.05,"end":3033.65,"text":"這一個報導就超過了"},{"start":3033.65,"end":3035.15,"text":"一百多篇的報導"},{"start":3035.15,"end":3037.85,"text":"而且各個學術研究機構"},{"start":3037.85,"end":3039.75,"text":"或者各個學校大學"},{"start":3039.75,"end":3041.05,"text":"對於他們能夠"},{"start":3041.05,"end":3042.85,"text":"當選院士的同仁"},{"start":3042.85,"end":3044.15,"text":"都加以表揚"},{"start":3044.15,"end":3044.85,"text":"這也表示說"},{"start":3044.85,"end":3047.05,"text":"各界對於中研院院士"},{"start":3047.05,"end":3049.55,"text":"這樣的一個選上"},{"start":3049.55,"end":3051.15,"text":"是認為一個很大的榮譽"},{"start":3051.25,"end":3052.55,"text":"當然我尊重"},{"start":3052.55,"end":3056.35,"text":"我們的廣州民院士的個人的想法"},{"start":3056.35,"end":3057.85,"text":"但是這是少數意見"},{"start":3057.85,"end":3060.05,"text":"我不便多做評論"},{"start":3060.05,"end":3062.05,"text":"自由民主法治的博教"},{"start":3062.05,"end":3063.55,"text":"自由民主法治法"},{"start":3063.55,"end":3065.05,"text":"他當然可以講他的話"},{"start":3065.05,"end":3067.05,"text":"但是這不是大眾的意見"},{"start":3067.05,"end":3068.35,"text":"我們要來探討"},{"start":3068.35,"end":3069.55,"text":"報導歸報導"},{"start":3069.55,"end":3071.25,"text":"畢竟我們的一些媒體"},{"start":3071.25,"end":3072.35,"text":"大家都很關注"},{"start":3072.35,"end":3073.9500000000003,"text":"但是流量怎麼樣"},{"start":3073.9500000000003,"end":3074.9500000000003,"text":"民眾關不關心"},{"start":3074.9500000000003,"end":3076.4500000000003,"text":"甚至有沒有去討論"},{"start":3076.4500000000003,"end":3077.55,"text":"到底是不關心"},{"start":3077.55,"end":3079.85,"text":"還是認為中研院的存在"},{"start":3079.85,"end":3081.65,"text":"對民眾來說沒有特別的感覺"},{"start":3081.65,"end":3082.65,"text":"這個我們可以來探討"},{"start":3082.65,"end":3083.35,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":3083.35,"end":3086.15,"text":"民眾在我們的這個院區開放"},{"start":3086.15,"end":3089.5499999999997,"text":"或者我們的這個大眾的演講"},{"start":3089.5499999999997,"end":3091.0499999999997,"text":"參與力都很高"},{"start":3091.0499999999997,"end":3092.95,"text":"所以他們對於科技的發展"},{"start":3092.95,"end":3094.35,"text":"確實很關心"},{"start":3094.35,"end":3095.35,"text":"我一直都很關心"},{"start":3095.35,"end":3096.85,"text":"中研院的一個定位"},{"start":3096.85,"end":3099.25,"text":"那之前廖院長在任的時候"},{"start":3099.25,"end":3101.35,"text":"我們一直都以經濟議題"},{"start":3101.35,"end":3103.0499999999997,"text":"跟這樣子的案例"},{"start":3103.0499999999997,"end":3104.25,"text":"來跟廖院長討論"},{"start":3104.25,"end":3105.85,"text":"當時台灣有財團法人"},{"start":3105.85,"end":3107.0499999999997,"text":"台灣綜合研究院"},{"start":3107.0499999999997,"end":3108.95,"text":"財團法人中華經濟研究院"},{"start":3109.0499999999997,"end":3110.35,"text":"但每當國內"},{"start":3110.35,"end":3112.35,"text":"發生種種經濟直接"},{"start":3112.35,"end":3114.1499999999996,"text":"間接的相關議題的時候"},{"start":3114.1499999999996,"end":3116.5499999999997,"text":"在各種媒體跟訊息的管道"},{"start":3116.5499999999997,"end":3118.0499999999997,"text":"都可以看到兩個財團法人"},{"start":3118.0499999999997,"end":3120.35,"text":"提出他們的種種分析跟看法"},{"start":3120.35,"end":3122.6499999999996,"text":"那中研院經濟所幾乎沒有"},{"start":3122.6499999999996,"end":3124.5499999999997,"text":"只會寫出期刊文章"},{"start":3124.5499999999997,"end":3126.6499999999996,"text":"完全沒有去對這個部分"},{"start":3126.6499999999996,"end":3127.85,"text":"來做評論"},{"start":3127.85,"end":3130.45,"text":"那無畏於國聲"},{"start":3130.45,"end":3131.45,"text":"國際民視"},{"start":3131.45,"end":3132.95,"text":"那我們看到這件事情"},{"start":3132.95,"end":3134.95,"text":"是否比起是否被關心"},{"start":3134.95,"end":3136.35,"text":"我想更關鍵的問題是"},{"start":3136.35,"end":3139.15,"text":"中研院能不能積極的回應"},{"start":3139.15,"end":3141.15,"text":"國家重大的動工議題"},{"start":3141.15,"end":3143.25,"text":"中研院經濟所確實有回應了"},{"start":3143.25,"end":3145.0499999999997,"text":"這個我們國家的經濟發展"},{"start":3145.0499999999997,"end":3146.95,"text":"像最近發表的"},{"start":3146.95,"end":3149.35,"text":"我們今年的經濟成長"},{"start":3149.35,"end":3150.35,"text":"會達到"},{"start":3150.35,"end":3151.75,"text":"會超過10%"},{"start":3151.75,"end":3154.15,"text":"就得到各界的重視"},{"start":3154.15,"end":3155.15,"text":"而且討論"},{"start":3155.15,"end":3157.95,"text":"在任何的經濟成長的"},{"start":3157.95,"end":3159.25,"text":"這個估計當中"},{"start":3159.25,"end":3160.95,"text":"當然是越多的單位"},{"start":3160.95,"end":3161.95,"text":"來做估計"},{"start":3161.95,"end":3164.95,"text":"能夠得到越精準的這個"},{"start":3164.95,"end":3165.75,"text":"數據"},{"start":3165.75,"end":3166.95,"text":"給大家做參考"},{"start":3166.95,"end":3168.55,"text":"中研院經濟所"},{"start":3168.55,"end":3170.15,"text":"在這一方面做得很好"},{"start":3170.15,"end":3174.15,"text":"另外經濟所在專業學術上的研究"},{"start":3174.15,"end":3175.45,"text":"實際上有很好的成果"},{"start":3175.45,"end":3177.75,"text":"有機會我在跟委員中報告"},{"start":3177.75,"end":3179.45,"text":"好 從1979年"},{"start":3179.45,"end":3181.15,"text":"多麗聯本中毒事件"},{"start":3181.15,"end":3183.15,"text":"舒化劑 毒澱粉"},{"start":3183.15,"end":3184.95,"text":"劣質地溝油"},{"start":3184.95,"end":3185.95,"text":"戴奧辛蛋"},{"start":3185.95,"end":3187.15,"text":"芬蒲彌蛋"},{"start":3187.15,"end":3188.25,"text":"蘇丹紅"},{"start":3188.25,"end":3190.35,"text":"加上這一次的致癌油事件"},{"start":3190.35,"end":3192.95,"text":"台灣數十年來食癌危機"},{"start":3192.95,"end":3194.15,"text":"一再的重演"},{"start":3194.15,"end":3195.65,"text":"顯示制度"},{"start":3195.65,"end":3196.85,"text":"一定有問題"},{"start":3196.85,"end":3198.85,"text":"所以始終沒有被根本的解決"},{"start":3198.85,"end":3200.4500000000003,"text":"面對食安危機"},{"start":3200.4500000000003,"end":3201.85,"text":"前院長 翁啟惠"},{"start":3202.58,"end":3204.88,"text":"與民國103年出版的"},{"start":3204.88,"end":3208.68,"text":"國家食品安全維護環境獨物"},{"start":3208.68,"end":3210.28,"text":"防治體系的建議書"},{"start":3210.28,"end":3212.28,"text":"內容長達120頁"},{"start":3212.28,"end":3214.58,"text":"那從制度面 檢測面到能量"},{"start":3214.58,"end":3215.68,"text":"跨部會的治理"},{"start":3215.68,"end":3217.18,"text":"提出完整的一個建議"},{"start":3217.18,"end":3218.78,"text":"當時陳建能副院長"},{"start":3218.78,"end":3221.18,"text":"藝名列委員會的成員"},{"start":3221.18,"end":3223.18,"text":"顯見整個中研院"},{"start":3223.18,"end":3225.18,"text":"對於整個積極投入"},{"start":3225.18,"end":3228.78,"text":"國家食品安全衛生的制度設計"},{"start":3228.78,"end":3229.58,"text":"請問院長"},{"start":3229.58,"end":3232.38,"text":"該建議書提出到現在十年"},{"start":3232.38,"end":3233.58,"text":"逾十年了"},{"start":3233.58,"end":3235.28,"text":"我們中研院是否有追蹤"},{"start":3235.28,"end":3237.28,"text":"其政策的落實情形"},{"start":3237.28,"end":3239.58,"text":"有哪些建議已被政府採納"},{"start":3239.58,"end":3241.6800000000003,"text":"又有哪些至今停留在"},{"start":3241.6800000000003,"end":3243.48,"text":"這一本建議書上"},{"start":3243.48,"end":3244.98,"text":"我舉一個很簡單的例子"},{"start":3244.98,"end":3246.1800000000003,"text":"像我們建議中藥"},{"start":3246.1800000000003,"end":3247.98,"text":"要成立食安相關的單位"},{"start":3247.98,"end":3249.78,"text":"那行政院已經成立了"},{"start":3249.78,"end":3250.98,"text":"這個食安辦"},{"start":3250.98,"end":3253.38,"text":"對 但看起來最近好像沒什麼功能"},{"start":3253.38,"end":3254.28,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":3254.28,"end":3256.08,"text":"然後另外我們也強調"},{"start":3256.08,"end":3257.6800000000003,"text":"這個跨部會的整合"},{"start":3257.6800000000003,"end":3260.38,"text":"包括經濟部 衛福部等等"},{"start":3260.38,"end":3261.58,"text":"那這一個部分"},{"start":3261.58,"end":3264.98,"text":"實際上現在在食安工作的推動上"},{"start":3264.98,"end":3266.48,"text":"跨部會的整合"},{"start":3266.48,"end":3268.7799999999997,"text":"也比以前要來的做得更好"},{"start":3268.7799999999997,"end":3270.38,"text":"再來就是人才的訓練"},{"start":3270.38,"end":3272.2799999999997,"text":"還有技術的精進方面"},{"start":3272.2799999999997,"end":3274.48,"text":"我們的建議實際上相關的部分"},{"start":3274.48,"end":3276.38,"text":"這看起來都是有被納入"},{"start":3276.38,"end":3277.18,"text":"對"},{"start":3277.18,"end":3278.48,"text":"那有沒有沒被納入的"},{"start":3278.48,"end":3279.88,"text":"你自己有提到嗎"},{"start":3280.88,"end":3283.18,"text":"沒被納入的部分"},{"start":3283.18,"end":3285.7799999999997,"text":"我想現在需要加強的"},{"start":3285.7799999999997,"end":3288.58,"text":"就是中央政府跟地方政府"},{"start":3288.58,"end":3290.38,"text":"如何能夠一條邊的"},{"start":3290.38,"end":3291.6800000000003,"text":"從上中下游"},{"start":3291.6800000000003,"end":3293.08,"text":"好好的整合在一起"},{"start":3293.08,"end":3297.38,"text":"然後跟廠商也能夠加強管控"},{"start":3297.38,"end":3299.38,"text":"我想這是一個很重要的目標"},{"start":3299.38,"end":3303.38,"text":"院長 我想身為公共衛生學界的一個態度"},{"start":3303.38,"end":3305.1800000000003,"text":"我是在說你"},{"start":3305.1800000000003,"end":3306.6800000000003,"text":"那而食品安全"},{"start":3306.6800000000003,"end":3309.78,"text":"正是公共衛生核心的一個議題之一"},{"start":3309.78,"end":3311.58,"text":"以這次致癌油的事件為由"},{"start":3311.58,"end":3314.38,"text":"我想沙拉油幾乎是每個家庭都要用到的"},{"start":3314.38,"end":3316.6800000000003,"text":"每個人每日都會食用的食品"},{"start":3316.6800000000003,"end":3319.28,"text":"甚至我們會去7-11 會去外食"},{"start":3319.28,"end":3320.48,"text":"所以一旦出現問題"},{"start":3320.48,"end":3322.88,"text":"我相信這個影響層面是極廣泛"},{"start":3322.88,"end":3325.6800000000003,"text":"所以對於此次致癌油重大的食安問題"},{"start":3325.6800000000003,"end":3328.48,"text":"我相信院長你一定有想法"},{"start":3328.48,"end":3331.1800000000003,"text":"你也想要建議一些什麼"},{"start":3331.1800000000003,"end":3332.5800000000004,"text":"是不是在這個機會"},{"start":3332.5800000000004,"end":3336.1800000000003,"text":"到底我們是什麼樣是製程污染有問題"},{"start":3336.1800000000003,"end":3338.1800000000003,"text":"還是黃豆原料有問題"},{"start":3338.1800000000003,"end":3339.48,"text":"還是兩個都有問題"},{"start":3339.48,"end":3340.5800000000004,"text":"還是有其他的因素"},{"start":3340.5800000000004,"end":3342.0800000000004,"text":"這部分您的看法是什麼"},{"start":3342.0800000000004,"end":3343.38,"text":"可不可以跟大家說一下"},{"start":3343.38,"end":3344.88,"text":"我想食安的問題"},{"start":3344.88,"end":3347.28,"text":"在它的溯源的這一個部分"},{"start":3347.38,"end":3350.1800000000003,"text":"找到真正原因需要有完整的調查"},{"start":3350.1800000000003,"end":3354.28,"text":"就好像以往的在西布特羅的歷史一樣"},{"start":3354.28,"end":3356.0800000000004,"text":"需要有一段時間的調查"},{"start":3356.0800000000004,"end":3359.1800000000003,"text":"但是在調查還沒有出來的以前"},{"start":3359.1800000000003,"end":3363.38,"text":"對於真正的污染的源頭在哪裡"},{"start":3363.38,"end":3364.5800000000004,"text":"是需要一點時間"},{"start":3364.5800000000004,"end":3366.1800000000003,"text":"但是我要強調的就是說"},{"start":3366.1800000000003,"end":3369.88,"text":"不管怎麼樣做好了這個源頭的管控"},{"start":3369.88,"end":3374.28,"text":"做好這個管理 生產的管理"},{"start":3374.28,"end":3376.1800000000003,"text":"以及這個集合通報"},{"start":3376.2799999999997,"end":3380.2799999999997,"text":"中央跟地方一定要協同做一起努力"},{"start":3380.2799999999997,"end":3383.3799999999997,"text":"所以你認為就是在還沒有確定源頭的時候"},{"start":3383.3799999999997,"end":3385.08,"text":"我們不能揣測對不對"},{"start":3385.08,"end":3385.48,"text":"當然了"},{"start":3385.48,"end":3386.7799999999997,"text":"一定要了解清楚在這裡"},{"start":3386.7799999999997,"end":3389.08,"text":"像上次西布特羅的例子"},{"start":3389.08,"end":3392.8799999999997,"text":"就是只有在一家檢驗室裡面找到西布特羅"},{"start":3392.8799999999997,"end":3396.68,"text":"其他的同一個批號的台糖的肉品"},{"start":3396.68,"end":3398.58,"text":"都沒有受到西布特羅的影響"},{"start":3398.58,"end":3399.98,"text":"你要講西布特羅沒關係"},{"start":3399.98,"end":3401.2799999999997,"text":"那我們就看到這一次"},{"start":3401.2799999999997,"end":3403.48,"text":"5月30 5月底的時候"},{"start":3403.48,"end":3405.68,"text":"廠商自主檢驗驗出有問題"},{"start":3405.7799999999997,"end":3408.18,"text":"通過檢驗的過程有問題的時候"},{"start":3408.18,"end":3408.8799999999997,"text":"他們複驗"},{"start":3409.48,"end":3411.08,"text":"那複驗尾外的時候"},{"start":3411.08,"end":3412.8799999999997,"text":"驗出又更加超標"},{"start":3412.8799999999997,"end":3414.68,"text":"在這個過程當中"},{"start":3414.68,"end":3416.2799999999997,"text":"我們就看到他們有通報"},{"start":3416.2799999999997,"end":3417.8799999999997,"text":"所以應該要予以重罰"},{"start":3417.8799999999997,"end":3419.48,"text":"要予以重罰嘛對不對"},{"start":3419.48,"end":3423.18,"text":"但是當時食藥署衛福部"},{"start":3423.18,"end":3425.58,"text":"在第一線發出的新聞稿"},{"start":3425.58,"end":3426.7799999999997,"text":"這不是我講的哦"},{"start":3426.7799999999997,"end":3429.98,"text":"是你們民進黨的立法委員"},{"start":3429.98,"end":3431.8799999999997,"text":"在質詢的時候就講的"},{"start":3431.8799999999997,"end":3433.58,"text":"食藥署發出的新聞稿"},{"start":3433.58,"end":3435.88,"text":"第一時間竟然是幫廠商說話"},{"start":3436.58,"end":3439.58,"text":"甚至說廠商自主的通報"},{"start":3440.08,"end":3441.38,"text":"廠商很積極"},{"start":3441.68,"end":3442.68,"text":"結果被打臉"},{"start":3442.68,"end":3446.48,"text":"5月30就已經在驗出尾外的過程"},{"start":3446.68,"end":3448.98,"text":"還在尾外驗的時候"},{"start":3449.18,"end":3451.38,"text":"就還不斷的在輸出這些產品"},{"start":3451.68,"end":3453.38,"text":"然後第一時間我們看到了"},{"start":3453.38,"end":3454.58,"text":"他們還請學者"},{"start":3454.7799999999997,"end":3456.88,"text":"而且是你們民進黨的立委"},{"start":3456.88,"end":3459.2799999999997,"text":"去說這個學者是有爭議的學者"},{"start":3459.48,"end":3462.68,"text":"還開記者會說多喝水就可以代謝"},{"start":3462.7799999999997,"end":3463.8799999999997,"text":"你能夠認同嗎"},{"start":3463.8799999999997,"end":3466.68,"text":"說烤肉就比那個BAP"},{"start":3466.68,"end":3469.98,"text":"還比我們的食用油自然油的問題"},{"start":3469.98,"end":3470.98,"text":"更加的高"},{"start":3470.98,"end":3472.7799999999997,"text":"這樣的說法你能夠認同嗎"},{"start":3472.98,"end":3475.18,"text":"我想這個學者是他自己的看法"},{"start":3475.98,"end":3477.28,"text":"他說可以代謝"},{"start":3478,"end":3479,"text":"喝水可以代謝"},{"start":3479,"end":3481,"text":"基本上任何毒物"},{"start":3481,"end":3481.8,"text":"你可以認同嗎"},{"start":3482.1,"end":3482.6,"text":"BAP"},{"start":3482.6,"end":3484.2000000000003,"text":"食藥署幫他開記者會"},{"start":3484.4,"end":3487.8,"text":"這個不是學者自己在自己的臉書"},{"start":3487.8,"end":3490.3,"text":"FB或者是自己直播"},{"start":3490.3,"end":3491.9,"text":"是食藥署的記者會"},{"start":3491.9,"end":3492.9,"text":"那你可以認同嗎"},{"start":3492.9,"end":3497.3,"text":"BAP本來就是可以因為你多喝水"},{"start":3497.3,"end":3498.2000000000003,"text":"就是可以排掉"},{"start":3498.2000000000003,"end":3500.7000000000003,"text":"所以你也認同多喝水可以代謝"},{"start":3500.7000000000003,"end":3502.2000000000003,"text":"這是事實"},{"start":3502.3,"end":3504.9,"text":"那另外任何的致癌物都是這樣"},{"start":3504.9,"end":3506.5,"text":"這個沒有什麼稀罕的事情"},{"start":3506.5,"end":3508.7,"text":"20%含量不用下架你也認同"},{"start":3508.7,"end":3510.8,"text":"沒有這個該下架的就要下架"},{"start":3510.8,"end":3512.3,"text":"因為可以透過喝水"},{"start":3512.3,"end":3513.9,"text":"就可以把它代謝掉"},{"start":3513.9,"end":3515.2,"text":"該下架就要下架"},{"start":3515.2,"end":3517.3,"text":"那你所以你覺得應該要下架是嗎"},{"start":3517.3,"end":3517.8,"text":"是"},{"start":3517.8,"end":3518.6,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":3520.76,"end":3522.26,"text":"謝謝羅廷瑋委員"},{"start":3522.26,"end":3523.76,"text":"也請院長回座"},{"start":3523.76,"end":3527.5600000000004,"text":"下一位有請葛如軍委員來進行詢答"},{"start":3530.42,"end":3533.12,"text":"那由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢"},{"start":3533.12,"end":3534.2200000000003,"text":"尚未確定"},{"start":3534.32,"end":3536.52,"text":"我們現在先來確定議事錄"},{"start":3536.62,"end":3539.2200000000003,"text":"請問各位委員上次會議議事錄"},{"start":3539.2200000000003,"end":3540.7200000000003,"text":"有無錯誤或遺漏"},{"start":3541.52,"end":3543.22,"text":"好謝謝議事錄確定"},{"start":3544.05,"end":3545.8500000000004,"text":"有請葛如軍委員"},{"start":3553.08,"end":3555.58,"text":"謝謝主席有請中研院院長"},{"start":3555.58,"end":3556.7799999999997,"text":"好有請院長"},{"start":3560.3,"end":3564.2000000000003,"text":"院長好想先請您看一段影片"},{"start":3567.57,"end":3568.57,"text":"聲音麻煩"},{"start":3569.26,"end":3570.5600000000004,"text":"政務人員公職"},{"start":3571.14,"end":3572.3399999999997,"text":"揭曉這個重擔"},{"start":3572.3399999999997,"end":3573.94,"text":"我只有一個信念"},{"start":3573.94,"end":3575.64,"text":"就是全力以赴"},{"start":3575.64,"end":3576.54,"text":"沒有懸念"},{"start":3577.4,"end":3579.1,"text":"院長剛剛的影片"},{"start":3579.3,"end":3582.9,"text":"是2023年就任行政院院長的時候"},{"start":3582.9,"end":3585.3,"text":"您公開向全國人民表示"},{"start":3585.6,"end":3587.1,"text":"這是最後一個公職"},{"start":3587.6,"end":3589.6,"text":"剛才您也有回覆了"},{"start":3589.9,"end":3591.5,"text":"說這是一個您的熱情"},{"start":3591.8,"end":3594.3,"text":"這張圖片其實我是一直反對放的"},{"start":3594.5,"end":3596.2000000000003,"text":"我的同事說很可愛"},{"start":3596.9,"end":3598.2000000000003,"text":"但是我想您的答案"},{"start":3598.6,"end":3600.9,"text":"讓我不得不放這樣子的一個畫面"},{"start":3601.7000000000003,"end":3603.4,"text":"你說這是你的熱情"},{"start":3603.8,"end":3606.8,"text":"這是你的興趣所在"},{"start":3607.72,"end":3608.9199999999996,"text":"那因為這樣"},{"start":3609.3199999999997,"end":3613.4199999999996,"text":"就可以把過去的承諾一筆勾銷"},{"start":3614.22,"end":3617.22,"text":"我們就可以不去重視自己講出來的話嗎"},{"start":3617.62,"end":3620.42,"text":"這是我們中研院要倡導的價值觀嗎"},{"start":3620.72,"end":3621.52,"text":"麻煩你回應一下"},{"start":3621.52,"end":3622.92,"text":"我想很重要的"},{"start":3622.92,"end":3625.62,"text":"中研院本來就是一個學術研究的機構"},{"start":3625.8199999999997,"end":3627.22,"text":"我本身也是擔任"},{"start":3627.92,"end":3629.3199999999997,"text":"這一個特殊研究員"},{"start":3629.52,"end":3632.3199999999997,"text":"那學術研究剛才講過就是我的"},{"start":3632.3199999999997,"end":3633.62,"text":"所以你覺得這不是公職"},{"start":3633.62,"end":3635.42,"text":"中研院院長就不是公職"},{"start":3635.8199999999997,"end":3638.62,"text":"這是我一向認為像行政院長"},{"start":3638.72,"end":3640.42,"text":"還有副總統"},{"start":3640.42,"end":3643.12,"text":"這樣的是一個公共服務的工作"},{"start":3643.62,"end":3645.42,"text":"現在我從事的是學術研究員的工作"},{"start":3645.42,"end":3646.62,"text":"你說是最後一項公職"},{"start":3647.22,"end":3648.8199999999997,"text":"那你現在為什麼又回來了"},{"start":3649.22,"end":3650.92,"text":"我們重視的就是承諾"},{"start":3650.92,"end":3653.42,"text":"您回來其實老實說我內心也很高興"},{"start":3653.72,"end":3657.12,"text":"但是要讓人民跟您的下屬同仁"},{"start":3657.42,"end":3660.22,"text":"要如何認知您的承諾這件事"},{"start":3660.22,"end":3661.42,"text":"你還是要說明清楚"},{"start":3661.42,"end":3662.42,"text":"我還是沒有聽到"},{"start":3663.02,"end":3665.22,"text":"你說因為你的職責你的熱情"},{"start":3665.22,"end":3667.12,"text":"所以承諾就可以一筆勾銷"},{"start":3667.12,"end":3668.62,"text":"我剛才已經講過"},{"start":3668.62,"end":3671.12,"text":"我現在仍然擔任特別研究員的工作"},{"start":3671.12,"end":3672.92,"text":"我還是從事學術研究的工作"},{"start":3673.12,"end":3676.22,"text":"那我也是從事學術行政這樣的一個工作"},{"start":3676.22,"end":3681.02,"text":"希望能夠使中研研所有的學術研究也好"},{"start":3681.02,"end":3684.22,"text":"所以沒有破壞您剛剛影片裡的承諾就對了"},{"start":3686.4300000000003,"end":3688.03,"text":"我剛才已經回答了"},{"start":3688.03,"end":3693.03,"text":"就是我來加強中研研所的追求學術作業"},{"start":3693.03,"end":3695.53,"text":"然後培育高階人才"},{"start":3695.53,"end":3697.03,"text":"然後善盡社會責任"},{"start":3697.03,"end":3705.53,"text":"還有做好這個使中研研所變成東亞的一個學術頂尖研究機構"},{"start":3705.53,"end":3709.53,"text":"所以我的所有的目標都早遠在學術研究"},{"start":3709.53,"end":3711.03,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":3711.03,"end":3715.03,"text":"我想這個到底有沒有違背您自己的承諾"},{"start":3715.03,"end":3718.03,"text":"您的同事我們的社會我們的公民"},{"start":3718.03,"end":3719.03,"text":"只有一把尺"},{"start":3719.03,"end":3720.03,"text":"只有論斷"},{"start":3720.03,"end":3721.03,"text":"但是沒有關係"},{"start":3721.03,"end":3723.03,"text":"既然談到承諾"},{"start":3723.03,"end":3725.03,"text":"我想我們會再給您一個機會"},{"start":3725.03,"end":3729.03,"text":"就是希望能夠保障您剛剛所提到的"},{"start":3729.03,"end":3732.03,"text":"所有的一些事務都要能夠推展"},{"start":3732.03,"end":3735.03,"text":"那有這個承諾不只是要您來推動"},{"start":3735.03,"end":3738.03,"text":"因為這個承諾也是前院長"},{"start":3738.03,"end":3741.03,"text":"廖俊志前院長所表達的"},{"start":3741.03,"end":3743.03,"text":"在今年的5月21號"},{"start":3743.03,"end":3745.03,"text":"就站在您現在所站的位置"},{"start":3745.03,"end":3747.03,"text":"您也上任一個月了"},{"start":3747.03,"end":3750.03,"text":"我相信您在這個交接匯報當中應該知道"},{"start":3750.03,"end":3752.03,"text":"他有提出過這個承諾"},{"start":3752.03,"end":3756.03,"text":"就是要大幅提高從博士後到特別研究員的待遇"},{"start":3756.03,"end":3757.03,"text":"符合國際水準"},{"start":3757.03,"end":3758.03,"text":"這個您應該知道吧"},{"start":3758.03,"end":3759.03,"text":"知道"},{"start":3759.03,"end":3760.03,"text":"好很好"},{"start":3760.03,"end":3764.03,"text":"那這個要同步的討論學術研究的加給研究環境"},{"start":3764.03,"end":3766.03,"text":"家庭照顧和生肖的制度"},{"start":3766.03,"end":3769.03,"text":"本席就要在這裡想要問院長"},{"start":3769.03,"end":3771.03,"text":"這是我們廖俊志前院長的承諾"},{"start":3771.03,"end":3773.03,"text":"我相信剛剛您所提到"},{"start":3773.03,"end":3777.03,"text":"您任這個新職您要做到的事也包含在其中"},{"start":3777.03,"end":3779.03,"text":"你有沒有願意接下這個接力棒"},{"start":3779.03,"end":3782.03,"text":"讓前院長的願景來真正的全面落地"},{"start":3782.03,"end":3787.03,"text":"雙研究院的院長通常都是一棒接一棒來進行"},{"start":3787.03,"end":3791.03,"text":"所以廖院長他所提出來的這樣的一個理想"},{"start":3791.03,"end":3792.03,"text":"我會努力來做"},{"start":3792.03,"end":3794.03,"text":"而且我要跟委員報告一下"},{"start":3794.03,"end":3797.03,"text":"像是薪資提升還有研究加給的部分"},{"start":3797.03,"end":3800.03,"text":"我在2023年擔任行政院院長的時候"},{"start":3800.03,"end":3805.03,"text":"就是提升了所有的大學教授的學術研究加給"},{"start":3805.03,"end":3807.03,"text":"還有研究機構的研究加給"},{"start":3807.03,"end":3810.03,"text":"我想這是大家都認為應該要努力的方法"},{"start":3810.03,"end":3812.03,"text":"謝謝院長您自己提出來了"},{"start":3812.03,"end":3813.03,"text":"我必須要告訴您"},{"start":3813.03,"end":3815.03,"text":"有做但做的絕對還不夠"},{"start":3815.03,"end":3816.03,"text":"當然"},{"start":3816.03,"end":3820.03,"text":"跟國際的水平完全沒有辦法對接在一起"},{"start":3820.03,"end":3823.03,"text":"我們台大就已經有好幾個老師"},{"start":3823.03,"end":3825.03,"text":"現在要回到產業了"},{"start":3825.03,"end":3826.03,"text":"非常優秀的"},{"start":3826.03,"end":3828.03,"text":"沒有關係我們就講中研院"},{"start":3828.03,"end":3831.03,"text":"所以請院長既然您願意接棒"},{"start":3831.03,"end":3833.03,"text":"一個月內提出書面報告"},{"start":3833.03,"end":3835.03,"text":"針對我們提到的這四點"},{"start":3835.03,"end":3836.03,"text":"提出具體的規劃時程"},{"start":3836.03,"end":3839.03,"text":"第一各級研究人員薪資提升"},{"start":3839.03,"end":3841.03,"text":"第二學術研究加給調整"},{"start":3841.03,"end":3844.03,"text":"而且要盡可能達到國際水準"},{"start":3844.03,"end":3846.03,"text":"第三研究人員的工作環境"},{"start":3846.03,"end":3848.03,"text":"家庭支持的措施"},{"start":3848.03,"end":3850.03,"text":"第四深遷制度的改革"},{"start":3850.03,"end":3851.03,"text":"您可以認同嗎"},{"start":3851.03,"end":3852.03,"text":"一個月內"},{"start":3852.03,"end":3854.03,"text":"我們可以來提出我們的構想"},{"start":3854.03,"end":3857.03,"text":"但是我希望大院在審查預算的時候"},{"start":3857.03,"end":3861.03,"text":"也能夠讓全台灣的研究大學"},{"start":3861.03,"end":3863.03,"text":"還有研究機構的研究人員"},{"start":3863.03,"end":3865.03,"text":"的薪資提升的時候"},{"start":3865.03,"end":3866.03,"text":"給予多多支持"},{"start":3866.03,"end":3867.03,"text":"你薪資提升的時候"},{"start":3867.03,"end":3868.03,"text":"我們什麼時候不支持了"},{"start":3869.1,"end":3872.1,"text":"軍警要升薪水的時候"},{"start":3872.1,"end":3873.1,"text":"是行政院不支持啊"},{"start":3873.1,"end":3875.1,"text":"我覺得政治的口水"},{"start":3875.1,"end":3876.1,"text":"我們不要在這裡好不好"},{"start":3876.1,"end":3877.1,"text":"我們沒有口水"},{"start":3877.1,"end":3878.1,"text":"我是覺得"},{"start":3878.1,"end":3879.1,"text":"不然你就先提出"},{"start":3879.1,"end":3880.1,"text":"我們哪一次你們說要"},{"start":3880.1,"end":3882.1,"text":"替研究員升薪水"},{"start":3882.1,"end":3884.1,"text":"我們有拒絕的"},{"start":3885.8,"end":3886.8,"text":"哪一次"},{"start":3886.8,"end":3887.8,"text":"沒有你就不"},{"start":3887.8,"end":3888.8,"text":"就院長就不要在這裡"},{"start":3888.8,"end":3890.8,"text":"去提這個事情好不好"},{"start":3890.8,"end":3891.8,"text":"您計劃提出來"},{"start":3891.8,"end":3893.8,"text":"合理的我們當然一定支持"},{"start":3893.8,"end":3894.8,"text":"任何的預算提出來"},{"start":3894.8,"end":3895.8,"text":"我時間很寶貴"},{"start":3895.8,"end":3896.8,"text":"您就在這裡說"},{"start":3896.8,"end":3897.8,"text":"我們從來沒"},{"start":3897.8,"end":3899.8,"text":"我們就沒有要這樣子做"},{"start":3899.8,"end":3900.8,"text":"好不好"},{"start":3900.8,"end":3902.8,"text":"所以院長我們對您是"},{"start":3902.8,"end":3904.8,"text":"絕對充滿了期許"},{"start":3904.8,"end":3905.8,"text":"因為什麼"},{"start":3905.8,"end":3907.8,"text":"您是中華民國歷史上"},{"start":3907.8,"end":3909.8,"text":"唯一擔任過行政院院長的"},{"start":3909.8,"end":3910.8,"text":"中研院院長"},{"start":3910.8,"end":3911.8,"text":"這個您認可"},{"start":3911.8,"end":3912.8,"text":"你也認知嘛"},{"start":3912.8,"end":3913.8,"text":"當然是"},{"start":3913.8,"end":3915.8,"text":"這是非常棒的一件事"},{"start":3915.8,"end":3916.8,"text":"您比起前面的"},{"start":3916.8,"end":3917.8,"text":"任何一位院長"},{"start":3917.8,"end":3919.8,"text":"都可能更加的了解"},{"start":3919.8,"end":3920.8,"text":"行政體系"},{"start":3920.8,"end":3922.8,"text":"更懂預算的結構"},{"start":3922.8,"end":3923.8,"text":"如果中研院"},{"start":3923.8,"end":3925.8,"text":"在您的帶領之下"},{"start":3925.8,"end":3927.8,"text":"這些事情沒有辦法做好"},{"start":3927.8,"end":3928.8,"text":"或沒有辦法做得更好"},{"start":3928.8,"end":3930.8,"text":"我想大家都會很失望"},{"start":3930.8,"end":3931.8,"text":"我們也絕對不能接受"},{"start":3931.8,"end":3933.8,"text":"因為這是一個科學問題"},{"start":3933.8,"end":3934.8,"text":"您曾經擔任過"},{"start":3934.8,"end":3935.8,"text":"行政院的院長"},{"start":3935.8,"end":3937.8,"text":"您一定可以把"},{"start":3937.8,"end":3940.8,"text":"這件事情做得比前人更好"},{"start":3940.8,"end":3942.8,"text":"兩倍三倍五倍十倍"},{"start":3942.8,"end":3943.8,"text":"我相信我們會期待"},{"start":3943.8,"end":3944.8,"text":"可以嗎謝謝"},{"start":3944.8,"end":3945.8,"text":"十倍是太多了"},{"start":3945.8,"end":3947.8,"text":"好我想接下來還有"},{"start":3947.8,"end":3949.8,"text":"很重要的議題"},{"start":3949.8,"end":3950.8,"text":"不好意思主席"},{"start":3950.8,"end":3952.8,"text":"我讓您誤會了"},{"start":3952.8,"end":3955.8,"text":"這個是有時間的急迫性"},{"start":3955.8,"end":3956.8,"text":"所以我爭取一點時間"},{"start":3956.8,"end":3958.8,"text":"這是攸關國家安全的"},{"start":3958.8,"end":3961.8,"text":"量子安全跟後量子密碼學的議題"},{"start":3961.8,"end":3964.8,"text":"那我也跟您稍微說明一下"},{"start":3964.8,"end":3965.8,"text":"因為您在這塊"},{"start":3965.8,"end":3966.8,"text":"我們一起來努力"},{"start":3966.8,"end":3969.8,"text":"這個其實量子電腦"},{"start":3969.8,"end":3970.8,"text":"逐漸在成熟當中"},{"start":3970.8,"end":3972.8,"text":"這個RSA ECC"},{"start":3972.8,"end":3973.8,"text":"都有可能面臨到"},{"start":3973.8,"end":3975.8,"text":"根本性的破解"},{"start":3975.8,"end":3976.8,"text":"這不是科幻"},{"start":3976.8,"end":3977.8,"text":"現代情報戰"},{"start":3977.8,"end":3979.8,"text":"叫做先竊取後解密"},{"start":3979.8,"end":3981.8,"text":"也就是現在我們所有的資訊"},{"start":3981.8,"end":3983.8,"text":"都可以被收集起來"},{"start":3983.8,"end":3985.8,"text":"量子電腦成熟之後就可以破譯"},{"start":3985.8,"end":3987.8,"text":"這個會造成什麼事情"},{"start":3989.47,"end":3991.47,"text":"表示說國家的機密"},{"start":3991.47,"end":3993.47,"text":"在未來擁有這樣的技術人的手中"},{"start":3993.47,"end":3997.47,"text":"就是隨便可以來讀取"},{"start":3997.47,"end":3998.47,"text":"換句話說"},{"start":3998.47,"end":4000.47,"text":"任何的敵意的勢力"},{"start":4000.47,"end":4001.47,"text":"都可以扮演任何一個人"},{"start":4001.47,"end":4002.47,"text":"做任何事"},{"start":4002.47,"end":4004.47,"text":"可以進入銀行系統"},{"start":4004.47,"end":4006.47,"text":"篡改國恩的銀行存款的數額"},{"start":4006.47,"end":4009.47,"text":"也包括直接偽造"},{"start":4009.47,"end":4010.47,"text":"扮演賴清德總統"},{"start":4010.47,"end":4012.47,"text":"來發布國家的文告"},{"start":4012.47,"end":4014.47,"text":"這都是有可能做到"},{"start":4014.47,"end":4016.47,"text":"世界各國已經開始行動了"},{"start":4016.47,"end":4019.47,"text":"谷歌目前已經大幅的提升"},{"start":4019.47,"end":4023.47,"text":"這個所謂後量子安全的遷移時間"},{"start":4023.47,"end":4025.47,"text":"也就是說所有的設備"},{"start":4025.47,"end":4026.47,"text":"都要能夠抗量子"},{"start":4026.47,"end":4028.47,"text":"以前是2035年"},{"start":4028.47,"end":4030.47,"text":"後來改到2033年"},{"start":4030.47,"end":4033.47,"text":"現在提升到2031年"},{"start":4033.47,"end":4036.47,"text":"谷歌直接一路拉到2029"},{"start":4036.47,"end":4037.47,"text":"這意思是什麼"},{"start":4037.47,"end":4038.47,"text":"這個時間一過"},{"start":4038.47,"end":4040.47,"text":"所有的國家企業的機密"},{"start":4040.47,"end":4042.47,"text":"都再也不是機密了"},{"start":4042.47,"end":4044.47,"text":"這個我們一定要來努力"},{"start":4044.47,"end":4046.47,"text":"中研院我們先鼓勵"},{"start":4046.47,"end":4049.47,"text":"就是說有做20位人的"},{"start":4049.47,"end":4050.47,"text":"超導量子的突破"},{"start":4050.47,"end":4052.47,"text":"持續參與國際競賽"},{"start":4052.47,"end":4054.47,"text":"但是我們可以看到"},{"start":4054.47,"end":4056.47,"text":"其實這個量子遷移的時程"},{"start":4056.47,"end":4057.47,"text":"川普才剛簽名"},{"start":4057.47,"end":4058.47,"text":"也提前了"},{"start":4058.47,"end":4061.47,"text":"提前到2031跟2030"},{"start":4061.47,"end":4064.47,"text":"您剛剛的中研院這邊的"},{"start":4064.47,"end":4066.47,"text":"很棒的研究員的表現"},{"start":4066.47,"end":4067.47,"text":"我們都予以肯定"},{"start":4067.47,"end":4069.47,"text":"但是事實上"},{"start":4069.47,"end":4071.47,"text":"國際競賽也都有得獎"},{"start":4071.47,"end":4073.47,"text":"但是我們有一個"},{"start":4073.47,"end":4075.47,"text":"非常重要的重點計畫"},{"start":4075.47,"end":4076.47,"text":"後量子密碼學"},{"start":4076.47,"end":4078.47,"text":"就是在量子遷移裡面"},{"start":4078.47,"end":4080.47,"text":"扮演了非常重要的關鍵"},{"start":4080.47,"end":4082.47,"text":"我們的問題很清楚"},{"start":4082.47,"end":4083.47,"text":"也很簡單"},{"start":4083.47,"end":4086.47,"text":"中研院115年的公務稅出預算"},{"start":4086.47,"end":4088.47,"text":"高達154億"},{"start":4088.47,"end":4091.47,"text":"請問院長根據明年度"},{"start":4091.47,"end":4092.47,"text":"對於量子科技"},{"start":4092.47,"end":4095.47,"text":"或者PQC post quantum的這個量子"},{"start":4095.47,"end":4098.469999999999,"text":"遷移的這個所謂的加密的預算"},{"start":4098.47,"end":4101.47,"text":"預算尤其這個是一個重點項目"},{"start":4101.47,"end":4103.47,"text":"有沒有再配合國安的危機"},{"start":4103.47,"end":4105.47,"text":"來持續增加"},{"start":4105.47,"end":4106.47,"text":"持平還是減少"},{"start":4106.47,"end":4108.47,"text":"可不可以簡要回答"},{"start":4108.47,"end":4110.47,"text":"這一個部分我請我們"},{"start":4110.47,"end":4113.47,"text":"資訊所的首長來回答"},{"start":4113.47,"end":4115.47,"text":"各位委員好"},{"start":4115.47,"end":4117.47,"text":"有關於中研院部分"},{"start":4117.47,"end":4118.47,"text":"因為現在其實那個國家"},{"start":4118.47,"end":4121.47,"text":"量子國家對預算是編列在"},{"start":4121.47,"end":4125.47,"text":"那個叫精創計畫下面"},{"start":4125.47,"end":4127.47,"text":"那是由清華大學"},{"start":4127.47,"end":4128.47,"text":"一個教授來領"},{"start":4128.47,"end":4131.47,"text":"中研院本身有兩個團隊非常強"},{"start":4131.47,"end":4133.47,"text":"一個是Post quantum cryptography的團隊"},{"start":4133.47,"end":4134.47,"text":"楊柏英"},{"start":4134.47,"end":4136.47,"text":"另外一個是Quantum computing"},{"start":4136.47,"end":4138.47,"text":"我想委員應該很清楚"},{"start":4138.47,"end":4140.47,"text":"那這兩個團隊是非常強的"},{"start":4140.47,"end":4142.47,"text":"您剛剛講的非常正確"},{"start":4142.47,"end":4144.47,"text":"因為現在的確有很多國家"},{"start":4144.47,"end":4146.47,"text":"把很多的資料先存起來"},{"start":4146.47,"end":4148.47,"text":"因為他們現在目前的"},{"start":4148.47,"end":4150.47,"text":"Quantum的power還沒有辦法做到這樣子"},{"start":4150.47,"end":4152.47,"text":"設備本來預計是30年"},{"start":4152.47,"end":4154.47,"text":"但是現在一定會縮短到很短"},{"start":4154.47,"end":4155.47,"text":"因為大家"},{"start":4155.47,"end":4157.47,"text":"因為有AI還有各種的建設"},{"start":4157.47,"end":4159.47,"text":"所以還是沒有回答我問題"},{"start":4159.47,"end":4161.47,"text":"很好的科普我們都理解"},{"start":4161.47,"end":4163.47,"text":"現在還有量子大樓在蓋"},{"start":4163.47,"end":4165.47,"text":"硬體建設我們都肯定"},{"start":4165.47,"end":4167.47,"text":"但不等於安全的準備"},{"start":4167.47,"end":4169.47,"text":"所以後量子密碼學"},{"start":4169.47,"end":4171.47,"text":"這個重點的計畫"},{"start":4171.47,"end":4173.47,"text":"能不能加深加廣加大"},{"start":4173.47,"end":4175.47,"text":"這是我們的後盾"},{"start":4175.47,"end":4177.47,"text":"這個能不能有沒有做"},{"start":4177.47,"end":4179.47,"text":"委員我們這邊會回去會好好的"},{"start":4179.47,"end":4181.47,"text":"就是會把這件事情"},{"start":4181.47,"end":4182.47,"text":"釀入最重要的方向"},{"start":4182.47,"end":4184.47,"text":"新年度的預算來會看得到嗎"},{"start":4184.47,"end":4186.47,"text":"我剛剛問的很簡單"},{"start":4186.47,"end":4188.47,"text":"到底是增加持平還是減少"},{"start":4188.47,"end":4190.47,"text":"現在答得出來嗎"},{"start":4190.47,"end":4192.47,"text":"目前是持平還是用國家的錢"},{"start":4192.47,"end":4194.47,"text":"但是我們會應該要"},{"start":4194.47,"end":4196.47,"text":"跟院方講要加編制"},{"start":4196.47,"end":4198.47,"text":"好 院長一句話"},{"start":4198.47,"end":4200.47,"text":"有錄到音會加強"},{"start":4200.47,"end":4202.47,"text":"可不可以預算增加"},{"start":4202.47,"end":4204.47,"text":"因為這個真的很重要"},{"start":4204.47,"end":4206.47,"text":"這個我想主席都把我趕下台"},{"start":4206.47,"end":4208.47,"text":"也是這個原因"},{"start":4208.47,"end":4210.47,"text":"因為這是國安"},{"start":4210.47,"end":4212.47,"text":"資安及國安而且你沒有量子資安"},{"start":4212.47,"end":4214.47,"text":"那你就沒有國安"},{"start":4214.47,"end":4216.47,"text":"院長您可以回位子了可不可以給我們一個承諾"},{"start":4216.47,"end":4218.47,"text":"我想你講的很有道理"},{"start":4218.47,"end":4220.47,"text":"我們會來檢討一下我們的預算"},{"start":4220.47,"end":4222.47,"text":"那因為2027年的預算"},{"start":4222.47,"end":4226.47,"text":"現在我們已經送總統府審議了"},{"start":4226.47,"end":4228.47,"text":"那我們會回來再做一些檢討"},{"start":4228.47,"end":4230.47,"text":"行政院審完以後"},{"start":4232.87,"end":4234.87,"text":"我想這個速度很重要"},{"start":4234.87,"end":4238.87,"text":"沒關係我們再來一起想一下"},{"start":4238.87,"end":4240.87,"text":"怎麼樣可以再加速"},{"start":4240.87,"end":4242.87,"text":"那最後我想沒有能源沒有電"},{"start":4242.87,"end":4244.87,"text":"什麼也不能做啦"},{"start":4244.87,"end":4246.87,"text":"什麼量子抗量子都沒有意義啦"},{"start":4246.87,"end":4248.87,"text":"那這個我想您曾經提過"},{"start":4248.87,"end":4250.87,"text":"這個很尊重"},{"start":4250.87,"end":4252.87,"text":"這個非核家園"},{"start":4252.87,"end":4254.87,"text":"德國的非核家園是台灣的榜樣"},{"start":4254.87,"end":4256.87,"text":"那但是"},{"start":4256.87,"end":4258.87,"text":"您所認為的榜樣"},{"start":4258.87,"end":4260.87,"text":"現在說退出核能"},{"start":4260.87,"end":4262.87,"text":"德國中立"},{"start":4262.87,"end":4264.87,"text":"公開反省過去的能源政策"},{"start":4264.87,"end":4266.87,"text":"說退出核能是歷史性的錯誤決策"},{"start":4266.87,"end":4268.87,"text":"所以院長"},{"start":4268.87,"end":4270.87,"text":"我的問題很簡單"},{"start":4270.87,"end":4272.87,"text":"我的問題非常簡單"},{"start":4273.29,"end":4275.29,"text":"您有沒有辦法認同"},{"start":4275.29,"end":4277.29,"text":"現在我們的榜樣已經認錯了"},{"start":4277.29,"end":4279.29,"text":"您是不是也來告訴我們的全民"},{"start":4279.29,"end":4281.29,"text":"我們的能源政策也是錯的"},{"start":4284.61,"end":4288.61,"text":"我想核能的使用我剛才已經回答過柯委員"},{"start":4288.61,"end":4290.61,"text":"最重要的有三個部分"},{"start":4290.61,"end":4292.61,"text":"就是核能的安全"},{"start":4292.61,"end":4294.61,"text":"第二個就是這個核廢的處理"},{"start":4294.61,"end":4296.61,"text":"第三個就是社會的共識"},{"start":4296.61,"end":4298.61,"text":"如果這三個事情"},{"start":4298.61,"end":4300.61,"text":"都能夠達到我們"},{"start":4300.61,"end":4302.61,"text":"預期的目標的話"},{"start":4302.61,"end":4304.61,"text":"當然核能也是一個選項"},{"start":4304.61,"end":4306.61,"text":"但是目前專業研究院並沒有從事"},{"start":4306.61,"end":4308.61,"text":"核能相關的研究"},{"start":4308.61,"end":4310.61,"text":"我們在"},{"start":4310.61,"end":4312.61,"text":"淨零排碳的這個努力上"},{"start":4312.61,"end":4314.61,"text":"是從太陽能"},{"start":4314.61,"end":4316.61,"text":"是從這個去碳燃金"},{"start":4316.61,"end":4318.61,"text":"等等的做法下"},{"start":4318.61,"end":4320.61,"text":"院長我打斷您了謝謝這個我們都知道了"},{"start":4320.61,"end":4322.61,"text":"我想知行合一這四個字"},{"start":4322.61,"end":4324.61,"text":"希望您可以帶回去"},{"start":4324.61,"end":4326.61,"text":"您既然已經知道要有新式核能"},{"start":4326.61,"end":4328.61,"text":"但是我們聽到的是什麼"},{"start":4328.61,"end":4330.61,"text":"核融合沒有編列預算"},{"start":4330.61,"end":4332.61,"text":"我們也知道新式核能是我們的方向"},{"start":4332.61,"end":4334.61,"text":"我說研究嘛"},{"start":4334.61,"end":4336.61,"text":"核融合應該是像是清大"},{"start":4336.61,"end":4338.61,"text":"還有這個"},{"start":4338.61,"end":4340.61,"text":"中研院就不用做啊"},{"start":4340.61,"end":4342.61,"text":"不是最難的題目中研院就可以來思考嗎"},{"start":4342.61,"end":4344.61,"text":"目前沒有這樣的人才"},{"start":4344.61,"end":4346.61,"text":"但是我們國家有這樣的人才"},{"start":4346.61,"end":4348.61,"text":"就是在國研院跟這個"},{"start":4348.61,"end":4350.61,"text":"清華大學"},{"start":4350.61,"end":4352.61,"text":"他們都有這樣的人才"},{"start":4352.61,"end":4354.61,"text":"中央研究院當然很樂意跟他們來合作"},{"start":4354.61,"end":4356.61,"text":"那就很樂意要知行合一"},{"start":4356.61,"end":4358.61,"text":"既然樂意要有行動"},{"start":4358.61,"end":4360.61,"text":"量子安全很重要"},{"start":4360.61,"end":4362.61,"text":"那就要編列預算"},{"start":4362.61,"end":4364.61,"text":"不要都說我們知道"},{"start":4364.61,"end":4366.61,"text":"但是都做不出來"},{"start":4366.61,"end":4368.61,"text":"但我們還是相信您因為您剛上任"},{"start":4368.61,"end":4370.61,"text":"我們對您有很深的期待"},{"start":4370.61,"end":4372.61,"text":"還有一個訴求啦"},{"start":4372.61,"end":4374.61,"text":"所謂的核廢料"},{"start":4374.61,"end":4376.61,"text":"在英文在科學上已經改用"},{"start":4376.61,"end":4378.61,"text":"spent nuclear fuel"},{"start":4378.61,"end":4380.61,"text":"翻譯成中文叫做用過核燃料"},{"start":4380.61,"end":4382.61,"text":"我想中研院"},{"start":4382.61,"end":4384.61,"text":"您尤其作為院長"},{"start":4384.61,"end":4386.61,"text":"要作為表率"},{"start":4386.61,"end":4388.61,"text":"我想要跟著全球的科學界一起往前進"},{"start":4388.61,"end":4390.61,"text":"核廢料已經不是核廢"},{"start":4390.61,"end":4392.61,"text":"這點你認同嗎"},{"start":4392.61,"end":4394.61,"text":"用過的核燃料"},{"start":4394.61,"end":4396.61,"text":"實際上就核能廠來講"},{"start":4396.61,"end":4398.61,"text":"不是講是廢料啦"},{"start":4398.61,"end":4400.61,"text":"廢料可以重複使用"},{"start":4400.61,"end":4402.61,"text":"您知道嗎"},{"start":4402.61,"end":4404.61,"text":"用過核燃料還可以用"},{"start":4404.61,"end":4406.61,"text":"所以我想"},{"start":4406.61,"end":4408.61,"text":"我說用過核燃料還可以再發電"},{"start":4408.61,"end":4410.61,"text":"所以我想"},{"start":4410.61,"end":4412.61,"text":"全世界的科學界"},{"start":4412.61,"end":4414.61,"text":"政治界已經不把它稱作核廢料"},{"start":4414.61,"end":4416.61,"text":"我想我們一起帶頭"},{"start":4416.61,"end":4418.61,"text":"我也要改名稱"},{"start":4418.61,"end":4420.61,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":4420.61,"end":4422.61,"text":"您有您的看法"},{"start":4422.61,"end":4424.61,"text":"不是改名稱"},{"start":4424.61,"end":4426.61,"text":"但是您對這個物件的認知跟看法"},{"start":4426.61,"end":4428.61,"text":"還有語言"},{"start":4428.61,"end":4430.61,"text":"我想這個謝謝主席寶貴的時間"},{"start":4430.61,"end":4432.61,"text":"我想我們的安全"},{"start":4432.61,"end":4434.61,"text":"我們的人員中研院是要做領頭羊"},{"start":4434.61,"end":4436.61,"text":"我們跟所有的研究人員"},{"start":4436.61,"end":4438.61,"text":"一起來努力謝謝"},{"start":4439.05,"end":4441.05,"text":"好謝謝葛如君委員的質詢"},{"start":4441.05,"end":4443.05,"text":"請院長回座"},{"start":4443.05,"end":4445.05,"text":"在這邊做個補充報告"},{"start":4445.05,"end":4447.05,"text":"大家的質詢內容都非常的精彩"},{"start":4447.05,"end":4449.05,"text":"但是因為我們今天的時間是4加2"},{"start":4449.05,"end":4451.05,"text":"像剛才就多超過了8分鐘"},{"start":4451.05,"end":4453.05,"text":"請各位見諒"},{"start":4453.05,"end":4455.05,"text":"我們就直接切入主題"},{"start":4455.05,"end":4457.05,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4457.05,"end":4459.05,"text":"下一位有請陳秀寶委員進行詢答"},{"start":4466.91,"end":4468.91,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4468.35,"end":4470.35,"text":"有請陳院長"},{"start":4474.3,"end":4476.3,"text":"陳委員好"},{"start":4476.3,"end":4478.3,"text":"首先先恭喜院長成為新任的院長"},{"start":4478.3,"end":4480.3,"text":"您過去擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4480.3,"end":4482.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4482.3,"end":4484.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4484.3,"end":4486.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4486.3,"end":4488.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4488.3,"end":4490.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4490.3,"end":4492.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4492.3,"end":4494.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4494.3,"end":4496.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4496.3,"end":4498.3,"text":"擔任過副總統與行政院院長的職務"},{"start":4504.3,"end":4506.3,"text":"請教針對新的中研院"},{"start":4506.3,"end":4508.3,"text":"或者是說由您帶領的中研院"},{"start":4508.3,"end":4510.3,"text":"未來的首要的任務"},{"start":4510.3,"end":4512.3,"text":"跟你們的對自我的期許"},{"start":4512.3,"end":4514.3,"text":"那第一個部分"},{"start":4514.3,"end":4516.3,"text":"目前您剛上任"},{"start":4516.3,"end":4520.3,"text":"那您為中研院設定的首要任務是什麼"},{"start":4520.3,"end":4522.3,"text":"以及如何來跨出第一步"},{"start":4522.3,"end":4524.3,"text":"並期盼在任期的初期"},{"start":4524.3,"end":4526.3,"text":"就為我們台灣的學術生態"},{"start":4526.3,"end":4528.3,"text":"帶來怎麼樣實質的效果"},{"start":4528.3,"end":4530.3,"text":"那第二個部分"},{"start":4530.3,"end":4532.3,"text":"您在就職的點點上面有強調"},{"start":4532.3,"end":4534.3,"text":"要打造台灣成為亞太卓越研究機構"},{"start":4534.3,"end":4536.3,"text":"那我們目前的機會是說"},{"start":4536.3,"end":4538.3,"text":"我們在科技的硬體實力是很強大的"},{"start":4538.3,"end":4540.3,"text":"但是我們的困境"},{"start":4540.3,"end":4542.3,"text":"卻是我們的基層科研人才"},{"start":4542.3,"end":4544.3,"text":"正在失血"},{"start":4544.3,"end":4546.3,"text":"那而且新知的這個制度將化"},{"start":4546.3,"end":4548.3,"text":"人才也高度的向產業集中"},{"start":4548.3,"end":4550.3,"text":"想請問院長"},{"start":4550.3,"end":4552.3,"text":"您目前有沒有想法"},{"start":4552.3,"end":4554.3,"text":"要如何來改善"},{"start":4554.3,"end":4556.3,"text":"第三個部分就是"},{"start":4556.3,"end":4558.3,"text":"您的研究機構"},{"start":4558.3,"end":4560.3,"text":"您有沒有想法要如何來改善"},{"start":4560.3,"end":4562.3,"text":"第三個部分就是"},{"start":4562.3,"end":4564.3,"text":"面對生產式AI的高速發展"},{"start":4564.3,"end":4566.3,"text":"科研界也面對極大的轉型的機會"},{"start":4566.3,"end":4568.3,"text":"那同時"},{"start":4568.3,"end":4570.3,"text":"也會有學術倫理"},{"start":4570.3,"end":4572.3,"text":"跟智慧查產等嚴峻的挑戰"},{"start":4572.3,"end":4574.3,"text":"那您認為在中研院"},{"start":4574.3,"end":4576.3,"text":"在這一波的變革之中"},{"start":4576.3,"end":4578.3,"text":"應該扮演怎樣的引領的角色"},{"start":4578.3,"end":4580.3,"text":"好 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to team"},{"start":6026.91,"end":6028.91,"text":"最近我們已經談了兩個很重要的"},{"start":6028.91,"end":6030.91,"text":"計畫一個就是跟"},{"start":6030.91,"end":6032.91,"text":"清華大學來推動"},{"start":6032.91,"end":6034.91,"text":"談科學的研究"},{"start":6034.91,"end":6036.91,"text":"中心第二個呢就是"},{"start":6036.91,"end":6038.91,"text":"跟台灣大學來推動"},{"start":6038.91,"end":6040.91,"text":"蛋白質體的研究中心"},{"start":6040.91,"end":6042.91,"text":"我相信這樣的對讀"},{"start":6042.91,"end":6044.91,"text":"團隊對團隊的合作"},{"start":6044.91,"end":6046.91,"text":"是我們未來要加強的目標"},{"start":6046.91,"end":6048.91,"text":"好那這個部分我們如何讓比當初"},{"start":6048.91,"end":6050.91,"text":"中南部或東部一些資源比較少的"},{"start":6050.91,"end":6052.91,"text":"能夠也有"},{"start":6052.91,"end":6054.91,"text":"參與公平的一個參與的"},{"start":6054.91,"end":6056.91,"text":"我們像我們剛才講的談"},{"start":6056.91,"end":6058.91,"text":"科學的計畫這個清華大學"},{"start":6058.91,"end":6060.91,"text":"實際上他就是會組成一個"},{"start":6060.91,"end":6062.91,"text":"研究大學的團隊"},{"start":6062.91,"end":6064.91,"text":"跟我們專案研究院來對口"},{"start":6064.91,"end":6066.91,"text":"然後蛋白質質提寫也是一樣的"},{"start":6066.91,"end":6068.91,"text":"是好那再來就是剛剛"},{"start":6068.91,"end":6070.91,"text":"其實蔡生手委員有特別提到所謂的"},{"start":6070.91,"end":6072.91,"text":"AI治理這也是大家非常關心的"},{"start":6072.91,"end":6074.91,"text":"一個部分我們怎麼樣是從"},{"start":6074.91,"end":6076.91,"text":"所謂的指引到變成"},{"start":6076.91,"end":6078.91,"text":"所謂的制度那我想這個"},{"start":6078.91,"end":6080.91,"text":"院長提出這個負責任的AI"},{"start":6080.91,"end":6082.91,"text":"這個我是非常的支持"},{"start":6082.91,"end":6084.91,"text":"那我想現在我們這個中醫院已經"},{"start":6084.91,"end":6086.91,"text":"有這個AI的風險的"},{"start":6086.91,"end":6088.91,"text":"一個研究那當然也要發布這個"},{"start":6088.91,"end":6090.91,"text":"所謂的生成式AI的一個使用"},{"start":6090.91,"end":6092.91,"text":"的指引啦"},{"start":6092.91,"end":6094.91,"text":"但是我想中醫院其實我們掌握了"},{"start":6094.91,"end":6096.91,"text":"大量不管是醫療也好"},{"start":6096.91,"end":6098.91,"text":"或者是基因也好或者是人文"},{"start":6098.91,"end":6100.91,"text":"的典藏還有一些未公開的"},{"start":6100.91,"end":6102.91,"text":"一些研究的資料喔那我想"},{"start":6102.91,"end":6104.91,"text":"這個部分其實不是在於"},{"start":6104.91,"end":6106.91,"text":"有沒有指引而是我比較關心"},{"start":6106.91,"end":6108.91,"text":"的是制度上的問題"},{"start":6108.91,"end":6110.91,"text":"那就是不管是"},{"start":6110.91,"end":6112.91,"text":"資料的分級的一個制度或者是"},{"start":6112.91,"end":6114.91,"text":"AI的一個使用的範圍"},{"start":6114.91,"end":6116.91,"text":"或者是跨境在資料"},{"start":6116.91,"end":6118.91,"text":"的管理還有外線事件"},{"start":6118.91,"end":6120.91,"text":"的通報還有機核的一個機制"},{"start":6120.91,"end":6122.91,"text":"我們怎麼樣讓AI的"},{"start":6122.91,"end":6124.91,"text":"這個治理不是只有研究"},{"start":6124.91,"end":6126.91,"text":"倫理而是真正可以"},{"start":6126.91,"end":6128.91,"text":"落實可以查核的制度"},{"start":6128.91,"end":6130.91,"text":"這是我比較關切的方式"},{"start":6130.91,"end":6132.91,"text":"好我想委員這個問題"},{"start":6132.91,"end":6134.91,"text":"也是問得很好喔"},{"start":6134.91,"end":6136.91,"text":"那這一個我們AI"},{"start":6136.91,"end":6138.91,"text":"的這個治理的部分"},{"start":6138.91,"end":6140.91,"text":"我舉一個例子"},{"start":6140.91,"end":6142.91,"text":"像我們法律所的首長"},{"start":6142.91,"end":6144.91,"text":"就有關AI的這個"},{"start":6144.91,"end":6146.91,"text":"部分的政策"},{"start":6146.91,"end":6148.91,"text":"埋庇書我請他簡單說明"},{"start":6148.91,"end":6150.91,"text":"因為今天時間關係"},{"start":6150.91,"end":6152.91,"text":"非常好我簡單報告一下"},{"start":6152.91,"end":6154.91,"text":"就是兩方面一方面是AI"},{"start":6154.91,"end":6156.91,"text":"的風險的這個部分"},{"start":6156.91,"end":6158.91,"text":"那我們有一個"},{"start":6158.91,"end":6160.91,"text":"甚至AI風險研究小組"},{"start":6160.91,"end":6162.91,"text":"那這個小組其實是我們長期以來"},{"start":6162.91,"end":6164.91,"text":"定期的開會"},{"start":6164.91,"end":6166.91,"text":"然後我們會針對AI"},{"start":6166.91,"end":6168.91,"text":"所產生的風險我們會做一個"},{"start":6168.91,"end":6170.91,"text":"跨領域的一個討論"},{"start":6170.91,"end":6172.91,"text":"然後我們提出一些建言"},{"start":6172.91,"end":6174.91,"text":"這個部分我們一直持續當中"},{"start":6174.91,"end":6176.91,"text":"明天我們就會還有一個會議"},{"start":6176.91,"end":6178.91,"text":"我們要進行"},{"start":6178.91,"end":6180.91,"text":"那我可以提供給委員嗎"},{"start":6180.91,"end":6182.91,"text":"我們目前已經有一個網頁在"},{"start":6182.91,"end":6184.91,"text":"可以提供查詢"},{"start":6184.91,"end":6186.91,"text":"然後必要的一些資料"},{"start":6186.91,"end":6188.91,"text":"我們委員如果需要"},{"start":6188.91,"end":6190.91,"text":"我們可以提供"},{"start":6190.91,"end":6192.91,"text":"那另外一方面就是剛剛提到有關"},{"start":6192.91,"end":6194.91,"text":"資料的開放使用的部分"},{"start":6194.91,"end":6196.91,"text":"我們目前正在做一個"},{"start":6196.91,"end":6198.91,"text":"相關所有的"},{"start":6198.91,"end":6200.91,"text":"研究資料的開放的一個"},{"start":6200.91,"end":6202.91,"text":"制度的研議"},{"start":6202.91,"end":6204.91,"text":"那這個部分可能會在今年底"},{"start":6204.91,"end":6206.91,"text":"會提出一個政策建議書"},{"start":6206.91,"end":6208.91,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":6208.91,"end":6210.91,"text":"說明喔"},{"start":6210.91,"end":6212.91,"text":"今天真的非常的謝謝"},{"start":6212.91,"end":6214.91,"text":"也很有榮幸在這個地方能夠"},{"start":6214.91,"end":6216.91,"text":"就是跟這個院長來做"},{"start":6216.91,"end":6218.91,"text":"這方面的一個專業的一個交流"},{"start":6218.91,"end":6220.91,"text":"那我想當然大家都"},{"start":6220.91,"end":6222.91,"text":"很期待在接下來您的"},{"start":6222.91,"end":6224.91,"text":"任內能夠提出"},{"start":6224.91,"end":6226.91,"text":"一套所謂的可以被社會檢驗的"},{"start":6226.91,"end":6228.91,"text":"一個改革的一個方向"},{"start":6228.91,"end":6230.91,"text":"然後再來讓大家看到這個中研院"},{"start":6230.91,"end":6232.91,"text":"不是只有這做研究"},{"start":6232.91,"end":6234.91,"text":"而是能夠真正帶動"},{"start":6234.91,"end":6236.91,"text":"所謂的台灣科研環境的一個"},{"start":6236.91,"end":6238.91,"text":"正向的一個改變"},{"start":6238.91,"end":6240.91,"text":"那我們也期許這個"},{"start":6240.91,"end":6242.91,"text":"院長能夠繼續帶領的這個"},{"start":6242.91,"end":6244.91,"text":"中研院然後我們繼續的努力"},{"start":6244.91,"end":6246.91,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":6246.91,"end":6248.91,"text":"像AI的部分我們這麼多同仁"},{"start":6248.91,"end":6250.91,"text":"大家都很用心"},{"start":6250.91,"end":6252.91,"text":"我會跟他們一起努力"},{"start":6252.91,"end":6254.91,"text":"使得這個國內的學術研究環境"},{"start":6254.91,"end":6256.91,"text":"越來越好人才也越來越"},{"start":6256.91,"end":6258.91,"text":"傑出好謝謝院長"},{"start":6258.91,"end":6260.91,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":6260.91,"end":6262.91,"text":"謝謝郭育群委員請院長"},{"start":6262.91,"end":6264.91,"text":"院長回座"},{"start":6272.1,"end":6274.1,"text":"好接下來有請武麗華交委"},{"start":6280.8,"end":6282.8,"text":"謝謝主席有請院長"},{"start":6283.5,"end":6285.5,"text":"好有請院長"},{"start":6288.03,"end":6290.03,"text":"交委好 院長好"},{"start":6290.15,"end":6292.15,"text":"擔任委員會的召委"},{"start":6292.15,"end":6296.15,"text":"我要先特別的來肯定您"},{"start":6296.15,"end":6298.15,"text":"因為您在六月二十一日"},{"start":6298.15,"end":6300.15,"text":"到職之後"},{"start":6300.15,"end":6302.15,"text":"其實中研院很主動的"},{"start":6302.15,"end":6304.15,"text":"來洽詢"},{"start":6304.15,"end":6306.15,"text":"是不是要安排院長"},{"start":6306.15,"end":6308.15,"text":"來做業務報告"},{"start":6308.15,"end":6310.15,"text":"那其實也可以選擇"},{"start":6310.15,"end":6312.15,"text":"在下個會期"},{"start":6312.15,"end":6314.15,"text":"但是這樣的一個主動的精神"},{"start":6314.15,"end":6316.15,"text":"讓我覺得非常的感佩"},{"start":6316.15,"end":6318.15,"text":"謝謝院長那當然"},{"start":6318.15,"end":6320.15,"text":"但是呢面對大家"},{"start":6320.15,"end":6322.15,"text":"對於新上任的院長的期許"},{"start":6322.15,"end":6324.15,"text":"其實我個人是認為"},{"start":6324.15,"end":6326.15,"text":"您是人辱負重"},{"start":6326.15,"end":6330.15,"text":"因為我們都知道您是天主教的聖騎士"},{"start":6330.15,"end":6334.15,"text":"那聖騎士呢其實最主要的一個靈魂核心"},{"start":6334.15,"end":6336.15,"text":"就是犧牲的精神"},{"start":6336.15,"end":6338.15,"text":"那這個犧牲呢其實"},{"start":6338.15,"end":6340.15,"text":"它有兩個價值"},{"start":6340.15,"end":6342.15,"text":"一個叫做憐憫一個叫公正"},{"start":6342.15,"end":6344.15,"text":"那簡單的來講"},{"start":6344.15,"end":6346.15,"text":"所謂的犧牲在天主教的定義呢"},{"start":6346.15,"end":6348.15,"text":"就是願意為大義"},{"start":6348.15,"end":6350.15,"text":"而承受損失的覺悟"},{"start":6350.15,"end":6352.15,"text":"所以呢今天看到您"},{"start":6352.15,"end":6354.15,"text":"站在這裡"},{"start":6354.15,"end":6356.15,"text":"有這麼豐厚的一個行政經歷"},{"start":6356.15,"end":6358.15,"text":"跟學術的經驗"},{"start":6358.15,"end":6360.15,"text":"我相信在領航"},{"start":6360.15,"end":6362.15,"text":"中研院這條道路上"},{"start":6362.15,"end":6364.15,"text":"有很重要的一個美意"},{"start":6364.15,"end":6366.15,"text":"在前方"},{"start":6366.15,"end":6368.15,"text":"那請您加油"},{"start":6368.15,"end":6370.15,"text":"那我在這邊其實"},{"start":6370.15,"end":6372.15,"text":"還是科學要實事求是"},{"start":6372.15,"end":6374.15,"text":"我比較關心的就是有關"},{"start":6374.15,"end":6376.15,"text":"很著名的一些議題"},{"start":6376.15,"end":6378.15,"text":"我在去年年底"},{"start":6378.15,"end":6380.15,"text":"有看到"},{"start":6379.57,"end":6381.57,"text":"中研院有一個很了不起的成就"},{"start":6381.57,"end":6383.57,"text":"就是你們"},{"start":6383.57,"end":6385.57,"text":"做的台灣精準醫療"},{"start":6385.57,"end":6387.57,"text":"計畫刊登了"},{"start":6387.57,"end":6389.57,"text":"國際最頂尖的"},{"start":6389.57,"end":6391.57,"text":"期刊Nature"},{"start":6391.57,"end":6393.57,"text":"那我看了內容呢發現"},{"start":6393.57,"end":6395.57,"text":"你們建立的是漢人的"},{"start":6395.57,"end":6397.57,"text":"基因庫他是東亞"},{"start":6397.57,"end":6399.57,"text":"最大的本土基因資料庫"},{"start":6399.57,"end":6401.57,"text":"那對我們"},{"start":6401.57,"end":6403.57,"text":"國人其實應該說"},{"start":6403.57,"end":6405.57,"text":"漢人健康風險"},{"start":6405.57,"end":6407.57,"text":"的預測呢這是一個非常"},{"start":6407.57,"end":6409.57,"text":"重要的一個基石"},{"start":6409.57,"end":6411.57,"text":"所以當時我質詢就是很羨慕"},{"start":6411.57,"end":6413.57,"text":"我就納悶說"},{"start":6413.57,"end":6415.57,"text":"為什麼不幫我們原住民"},{"start":6415.57,"end":6417.57,"text":"做為什麼呢"},{"start":6417.57,"end":6419.57,"text":"因為我其實在"},{"start":6419.57,"end":6421.57,"text":"一百一十二年的六月"},{"start":6421.57,"end":6423.57,"text":"就是原住民族"},{"start":6423.57,"end":6425.57,"text":"健康法講了十年"},{"start":6425.57,"end":6427.57,"text":"終於在一百一十二年的六月三讀"},{"start":6427.57,"end":6429.57,"text":"通過那其中有一個最"},{"start":6429.57,"end":6431.57,"text":"重要的就是要建置原住"},{"start":6431.57,"end":6433.57,"text":"民族的健康資料庫"},{"start":6433.57,"end":6435.57,"text":"那我們非常在意這件事情"},{"start":6435.57,"end":6437.57,"text":"所以呢當時呢"},{"start":6437.57,"end":6439.57,"text":"我在五月又再一次的"},{"start":6439.57,"end":6441.57,"text":"因為我在預算會期沒有看到"},{"start":6441.57,"end":6443.57,"text":"所以我又問了廖院長"},{"start":6443.57,"end":6445.57,"text":"那我希望就是可以"},{"start":6445.57,"end":6447.57,"text":"加入那當時廖院長"},{"start":6447.57,"end":6449.57,"text":"的回應是說他覺得"},{"start":6449.57,"end":6451.57,"text":"這是非常好的一件事"},{"start":6451.57,"end":6453.57,"text":"他也希望原民會跟委員們"},{"start":6453.57,"end":6455.57,"text":"能夠大力的支持"},{"start":6455.57,"end":6457.57,"text":"推動所以這個"},{"start":6457.57,"end":6459.57,"text":"平台到底要由誰來召開"},{"start":6459.57,"end":6461.57,"text":"那當時廖院長說"},{"start":6461.57,"end":6463.57,"text":"要看看行政院"},{"start":6463.57,"end":6465.57,"text":"有什麼樣的構想"},{"start":6465.57,"end":6467.57,"text":"因此呢我也來召開了第一次的"},{"start":6467.57,"end":6469.57,"text":"相關協調會"},{"start":6469.57,"end":6471.57,"text":"那我在五月二十六號的大院"},{"start":6471.57,"end":6473.57,"text":"總質詢我也去問了"},{"start":6473.57,"end":6475.57,"text":"這個問題那到底是"},{"start":6475.57,"end":6477.57,"text":"由誰來召開那因為呢"},{"start":6477.57,"end":6479.57,"text":"我們看到中研院"},{"start":6479.57,"end":6481.57,"text":"很願意承擔"},{"start":6481.57,"end":6483.57,"text":"所以呢我也在六月四號召集了"},{"start":6483.57,"end":6485.57,"text":"中研院還有"},{"start":6485.57,"end":6487.57,"text":"國衛院原民會衛福部"},{"start":6487.57,"end":6489.57,"text":"一起就這個部分來討論"},{"start":6489.57,"end":6491.57,"text":"那討論的過程中"},{"start":6491.57,"end":6493.57,"text":"就是要讓院長知道"},{"start":6493.57,"end":6495.57,"text":"因為我才知道說原來"},{"start":6495.57,"end":6497.57,"text":"不容易是因為這個Taiwan Battle Bank"},{"start":6497.57,"end":6499.57,"text":"其實原住民的相關"},{"start":6499.57,"end":6501.57,"text":"研究要符合這個"},{"start":6501.57,"end":6503.57,"text":"人體研究倫理審查"},{"start":6503.57,"end":6505.57,"text":"委員會的一個規範"},{"start":6505.57,"end":6507.57,"text":"他還要經過原住民組研究倫理"},{"start":6507.57,"end":6509.57,"text":"的審查同意"},{"start":6509.57,"end":6511.57,"text":"所以很不容易那即便是"},{"start":6511.57,"end":6513.57,"text":"台灣精準醫療計畫因為"},{"start":6513.57,"end":6515.57,"text":"他是擷取基因那我們也"},{"start":6515.57,"end":6517.57,"text":"很擔心說這個結果容易"},{"start":6517.57,"end":6519.57,"text":"導向歧視所以也必須"},{"start":6519.57,"end":6521.57,"text":"要非常的小心"},{"start":6521.57,"end":6523.57,"text":"那我特別高興就是您上任了之後"},{"start":6523.57,"end":6525.57,"text":"真的見急履急好快喔"},{"start":6525.57,"end":6527.57,"text":"六月二十九號"},{"start":6527.57,"end":6529.57,"text":"秘書長他就親自"},{"start":6529.57,"end":6531.57,"text":"跟國衛院就找了幾個"},{"start":6531.57,"end":6533.57,"text":"所就一同開了第一次的"},{"start":6533.57,"end":6535.57,"text":"工作協調會就是針對"},{"start":6535.57,"end":6537.57,"text":"原住民的精準健康"},{"start":6537.57,"end":6539.57,"text":"研究計畫那我今天"},{"start":6539.57,"end":6541.57,"text":"來這邊其實就是想要問一下"},{"start":6541.57,"end":6543.57,"text":"那到底結果如何"},{"start":6544.31,"end":6546.31,"text":"好那個精準健康"},{"start":6546.31,"end":6548.31,"text":"研究的這個部分"},{"start":6548.31,"end":6550.31,"text":"謝謝委員對原住民的這個"},{"start":6550.31,"end":6552.31,"text":"關心而且原住民組"},{"start":6552.31,"end":6554.31,"text":"因為在台灣是很多"},{"start":6554.31,"end":6556.31,"text":"多個族裔"},{"start":6556.31,"end":6558.31,"text":"那所以呢在這一個研究上"},{"start":6558.31,"end":6560.31,"text":"確實是需要有相關"},{"start":6560.31,"end":6562.31,"text":"的比較嚴謹的"},{"start":6562.31,"end":6564.31,"text":"這樣的規劃"},{"start":6564.31,"end":6566.31,"text":"但是精準健康"},{"start":6566.31,"end":6568.31,"text":"不只是利用基因"},{"start":6568.31,"end":6570.31,"text":"體的資料來做用"},{"start":6570.31,"end":6572.31,"text":"蛋白質體血的資料"},{"start":6572.31,"end":6574.31,"text":"來做的話呢實際上也可以"},{"start":6574.31,"end":6576.31,"text":"做很好的精準健康的"},{"start":6576.31,"end":6578.31,"text":"研究所以未來呢我們會"},{"start":6578.31,"end":6580.31,"text":"怎麼樣整合更"},{"start":6580.31,"end":6582.31,"text":"好的團隊來對"},{"start":6582.31,"end":6584.31,"text":"原住民健康的這個促進"},{"start":6584.31,"end":6586.31,"text":"精準健康的促進來做"},{"start":6586.31,"end":6588.31,"text":"研究那在基因"},{"start":6588.31,"end":6590.31,"text":"體學的部分"},{"start":6590.31,"end":6592.31,"text":"確實我們需要有"},{"start":6592.31,"end":6594.31,"text":"氣老還有部落長"},{"start":6594.31,"end":6596.31,"text":"老們的同意那這個部分我們"},{"start":6596.31,"end":6598.31,"text":"需要再協調那當然"},{"start":6598.31,"end":6600.31,"text":"專案就業者無旁貸如果我們"},{"start":6600.31,"end":6602.31,"text":"要這樣做我們願意跟相關"},{"start":6602.31,"end":6604.31,"text":"的原民會還有相關"},{"start":6604.31,"end":6606.31,"text":"的部會一起來努力"},{"start":6606.31,"end":6608.31,"text":"那這一次的協調工作"},{"start":6608.31,"end":6610.31,"text":"會報的這個情形的話"},{"start":6610.31,"end":6612.31,"text":"是我們是不是請"},{"start":6612.31,"end":6614.31,"text":"秘書長簡短說明一下"},{"start":6614.31,"end":6616.31,"text":"跟國務委員簡單說明"},{"start":6616.31,"end":6618.31,"text":"我們第一個是成立了一個工作小組"},{"start":6618.31,"end":6620.31,"text":"那就是由這個國務院的"},{"start":6620.31,"end":6622.31,"text":"這個原住民健康"},{"start":6622.31,"end":6624.31,"text":"研究中心還有中醫院"},{"start":6624.31,"end":6626.31,"text":"的這個台灣精準醫療計劃"},{"start":6626.31,"end":6628.31,"text":"還有台灣人體"},{"start":6628.31,"end":6630.31,"text":"人體生物資料庫還有統計所"},{"start":6630.31,"end":6632.31,"text":"共同成立這樣的一個"},{"start":6632.31,"end":6634.31,"text":"工作小組那我們目前的"},{"start":6634.31,"end":6636.31,"text":"第一個決議就是說"},{"start":6636.31,"end":6638.31,"text":"我們先盤點這個"},{"start":6638.31,"end":6640.31,"text":"國務院的資料還有中醫院"},{"start":6640.31,"end":6642.31,"text":"台灣保健康還有台灣"},{"start":6642.31,"end":6644.31,"text":"精準醫療計劃的"},{"start":6644.31,"end":6646.31,"text":"目前的這個有關"},{"start":6646.31,"end":6648.31,"text":"原民的收案的一個狀況"},{"start":6648.31,"end":6650.31,"text":"那目前我們知道台灣"},{"start":6650.31,"end":6652.31,"text":"整體生物資料庫20萬收案"},{"start":6652.31,"end":6654.31,"text":"當中有3600位有原民"},{"start":6654.31,"end":6656.31,"text":"身份然後TPMI的"},{"start":6656.31,"end":6658.31,"text":"56萬人當中大概有"},{"start":6658.31,"end":6660.31,"text":"估計大概有3萬人"},{"start":6660.31,"end":6662.31,"text":"這樣子那我們會"},{"start":6662.31,"end":6664.31,"text":"先從國務院跟中醫院內部"},{"start":6664.31,"end":6666.31,"text":"先成立一個計劃"},{"start":6666.31,"end":6668.31,"text":"來先針對目前"},{"start":6668.31,"end":6670.31,"text":"台灣保健康跟TPMI"},{"start":6670.31,"end":6672.31,"text":"已經有的資料我們先做一個"},{"start":6672.31,"end":6674.31,"text":"盤整然後我們會先"},{"start":6674.31,"end":6676.31,"text":"選幾個這個重要的疾病"},{"start":6676.31,"end":6678.31,"text":"我們先來做一個評估然後"},{"start":6678.31,"end":6680.31,"text":"再做後續的動作那目前"},{"start":6680.31,"end":6682.31,"text":"第二次的會議會在8月11號"},{"start":6682.31,"end":6684.31,"text":"辦理"},{"start":6684.07,"end":6686.07,"text":"另外也請了這個"},{"start":6686.07,"end":6688.07,"text":"東華大學的這個"},{"start":6688.07,"end":6690.07,"text":"Awimona這個院長會來"},{"start":6690.07,"end":6692.07,"text":"協助我們相關工作的進行"},{"start":6692.07,"end":6694.07,"text":"那後續會再跟委員這邊來說明"},{"start":6694.07,"e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Zangilan頭目周林義志先生"},{"start":6782.07,"end":6784.07,"text":"他的口述卡帶"},{"start":6784.07,"end":6786.07,"text":"要捐贈給中研院"},{"start":6786.07,"end":6788.07,"text":"因為他們相信中研院"},{"start":6788.07,"end":6790.07,"text":"有好的保存的方式"},{"start":6790.07,"end":6792.07,"text":"也有好的科技處理的方式"},{"start":6792.07,"end":6794.07,"text":"那在這裡"},{"start":6794.07,"end":6796.07,"text":"我就是要提醒一件事"},{"start":6796.07,"end":6798.07,"text":"因為像台大他們有一次"},{"start":6798.07,"end":6800.07,"text":"跟美國的這個"},{"start":6800.07,"end":6802.07,"text":"一個交流"},{"start":6802.07,"end":6804.07,"text":"那他們就訂定了一個"},{"start":6804.07,"end":6806.07,"text":"雙方護航"},{"start":6806.07,"end":6808.07,"text":"還有一個交流的一個"},{"start":6808.07,"end":6810.07,"text":"一系列的一個形式"},{"start":6810.07,"end":6812.07,"text":"但是在上次的太平洋藝術節"},{"start":6812.07,"end":6814.07,"text":"好多的"},{"start":6814.07,"end":6816.07,"text":"台灣還有世界各地的"},{"start":6816.07,"end":6818.07,"text":"族人到那個地方去參與"},{"start":6818.07,"end":6820.07,"text":"結果有一個活動"},{"start":6820.07,"end":6822.07,"text":"只有這個家庭他們"},{"start":6822.07,"end":6824.07,"text":"有被主動的邀請入內"},{"start":6824.07,"end":6826.07,"text":"參與他們的這個儀式"},{"start":6826.07,"end":6828.07,"text":"那大家都很驚訝"},{"start":6828.07,"end":6830.07,"text":"憑什麼是他們"},{"start":6830.07,"end":6832.07,"text":"有很多很多的國家"},{"start":6832.07,"end":6834.07,"text":"很多的台灣的團隊參加"},{"start":6834.07,"end":6836.07,"text":"因為他們有跟他們做結盟"},{"start":6836.07,"end":6838.07,"text":"所以原住民之間"},{"start":6838.07,"end":6840.07,"text":"世界原住民之間這種"},{"start":6840.07,"end":6842.07,"text":"結盟的儀式是長長久久的"},{"start":6842.07,"end":6844.07,"text":"而且是非常"},{"start":6844.07,"end":6846.07,"text":"有實質性的意義"},{"start":6846.07,"end":6848.07,"text":"所以呢我就是特別希望說"},{"start":6848.07,"end":6850.07,"text":"這一次的這個結盟"},{"start":6850.07,"end":6852.07,"text":"我也很希望能夠"},{"start":6852.07,"end":6854.07,"text":"在兩週內可以回覆我"},{"start":6854.07,"end":6856.07,"text":"關於規劃還有雙方"},{"start":6856.07,"end":6858.07,"text":"護會的模式還有這個口述"},{"start":6858.07,"end":6860.07,"text":"錄音檔他未來的典藏"},{"start":6860.07,"end":6862.07,"text":"跟推廣計畫那院長可以嗎"},{"start":6862.07,"end":6864.07,"text":"好可以那我們實際上"},{"start":6864.07,"end":6866.07,"text":"也安排在8月15號"},{"start":6866.07,"end":6868.07,"text":"到16號民主所呢跟"},{"start":6868.07,"end":6870.07,"text":"嘉平部落的家族呢會有一個"},{"start":6870.07,"end":6872.07,"text":"結盟的儀式那到時候"},{"start":6872.07,"end":6874.07,"text":"也希望 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這是不應該"},{"start":7406.43,"end":7408.43,"text":"對不對 是"},{"start":7408.43,"end":7410.43,"text":"你為了賺錢 甚至你還公開說"},{"start":7410.43,"end":7412.43,"text":"認罪的時候"},{"start":7412.43,"end":7414.43,"text":"說是為了公司的經營權"},{"start":7414.43,"end":7416.43,"text":"不能公佈"},{"start":7416.43,"end":7418.43,"text":"那就不對了"},{"start":7418.43,"end":7420.43,"text":"那就不對了"},{"start":7421.4,"end":7423.4,"text":"所以臉面的假像街頭"},{"start":7423.4,"end":7425.4,"text":"不是沒有原因的"},{"start":7424.95,"end":7426.95,"text":"謝謝你"},{"start":7427.46,"end":7429.46,"text":"好 謝謝謝龍介委員的諮詢"},{"start":7429.46,"end":7431.46,"text":"請院長回座"},{"start":7431.92,"end":7433.92,"text":"下一位"},{"start":7433.92,"end":7435.92,"text":"有請陳培瑜委員進行詢答"},{"start":7440.93,"end":7442.93,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":7442.93,"end":7444.93,"text":"有請院長陳院長謝謝"},{"start":7444.93,"end":7446.93,"text":"有請院長"},{"start":7448.66,"end":7450.66,"text":"陳委員早"},{"start":7450.82,"end":7452.82,"text":"雖然我時間有限 我實在是不想浪費我的時間"},{"start":7452.82,"end":7454.82,"text":"可是我實在要說一下"},{"start":7454.82,"end":7456.82,"text":"我要公開說"},{"start":7456.82,"end":7458.82,"text":"如果謝龍介委員他如果待在立法院長"},{"start":7458.82,"end":7460.82,"text":"我也很想問他 他會不會到現在"},{"start":7460.82,"end":7462.82,"text":"都不審總預算"},{"start":7462.82,"end":7464.82,"text":"新的年度總預算已經要進來了"},{"start":7464.82,"end":7466.82,"text":"我不會拿這個假設性的問題問院長"},{"start":7466.82,"end":7468.82,"text":"但我覺得很多委員在"},{"start":7468.82,"end":7470.82,"text":"這些議題上喔"},{"start":7470.82,"end":7472.82,"text":"沒有找到問題的關鍵真是令人感到非常遺憾"},{"start":7472.82,"end":7474.82,"text":"身為也是立法委員的我"},{"start":7474.82,"end":7476.82,"text":"覺得有點羞恥這樣"},{"start":7476.65,"end":7478.65,"text":"好"},{"start":7477.9,"end":7479.9,"text":"謝謝院長喔"},{"start":7479.9,"end":7481.9,"text":"如同剛吳立華早委所說的"},{"start":7481.9,"end":7483.9,"text":"謝謝您有所承擔"},{"start":7483.9,"end":7485.9,"text":"而且在這個會期 雖然是演會的會期"},{"start":7485.9,"end":7487.9,"text":"但就直接願意進到教委來跟大家討論"},{"start":7487.9,"end":7489.9,"text":"那我想我就就我們辦公室幾個"},{"start":7489.9,"end":7491.9,"text":"過去關心的議題"},{"start":7491.9,"end":7493.9,"text":"再跟院長做說明"},{"start":7493.9,"end":7495.9,"text":"也希望未來在院長所主持的中研院底下"},{"start":7495.9,"end":7497.9,"text":"我們可以看到相關的業務"},{"start":7497.9,"end":7499.9,"text":"持續往下發展"},{"start":7499.9,"end":7501.9,"text":"好 第一個"},{"start":7501.31,"end":7503.31,"text":"之前其實中研院一直有所謂的"},{"start":7503.31,"end":7505.31,"text":"Open House"},{"start":7505.31,"end":7507.31,"text":"那當時的Open House呢"},{"start":7507.31,"end":7509.31,"text":"比較多就是針對沒有特別針對"},{"start":7509.31,"end":7511.31,"text":"孩童兒童的部分"},{"start":7511.31,"end":7513.31,"text":"那當時我就跟廖院長許願喔"},{"start":7513.31,"end":7515.31,"text":"可不可以在Open House裡面我們單獨"},{"start":7515.31,"end":7517.31,"text":"有一天是專門為了小孩的"},{"start":7517.31,"end":7519.31,"text":"那也謝謝當時的廖院長一下子"},{"start":7519.31,"end":7521.31,"text":"就答應了 而且第一年就開始辦理"},{"start":7521.31,"end":7523.31,"text":"而且我也要說除了院長之外"},{"start":7523.31,"end":7525.31,"text":"有非常多願意積極參與的"},{"start":7525.31,"end":7527.31,"text":"中研院的同仁 老師們"},{"start":7527.31,"end":7529.31,"text":"然後自己設計課程設計活動"},{"start":7529.31,"end":7531.31,"text":"然後他們自己也玩得很開心"},{"start":7531.31,"end":7533.31,"text":"當然這是廖院長說的 我不知道是不是真的玩得很開心"},{"start":7533.31,"end":7535.31,"text":"可是我"},{"start":7535.31,"end":7537.31,"text":"我連續兩年都有去"},{"start":7537.31,"end":7539.31,"text":"我真的非常感謝感謝感謝這些中研院老師"},{"start":7539.31,"end":7541.31,"text":"願意在假日的時候"},{"start":7541.31,"end":7543.31,"text":"甚至在平常的時候 撥空為孩子們設計這些"},{"start":7543.31,"end":7545.31,"text":"目前孩子們反應也都很好"},{"start":7545.31,"end":7547.31,"text":"家長們反應也很好"},{"start":7547.31,"end":7549.31,"text":"我想問一下陳院長在您未來主持的中研院底下"},{"start":7549.31,"end":7551.31,"text":"關於兒童的部分"},{"start":7551.31,"end":7553.31,"text":"我們還會持續有這樣的兒童科普日"},{"start":7553.31,"end":7555.31,"text":"當然會"},{"start":7555.31,"end":7557.31,"text":"而且這個兒童科普日謝謝陳委員的建議"},{"start":7557.31,"end":7559.31,"text":"我的親戚朋友"},{"start":7559.31,"end":7561.31,"text":"帶小孩子去看"},{"start":7561.31,"end":7563.31,"text":"高興得不得了"},{"start":7563.31,"end":7565.31,"text":"而且他們很多人說"},{"start":7565.31,"end":7567.31,"text":"我也要做科學家"},{"start":7567.31,"end":7569.31,"text":"我覺得這樣從小扎根的"},{"start":7569.31,"end":7571.31,"text":"這個科普活動是相當重要"},{"start":7571.31,"end":7573.31,"text":"所以我上了以後"},{"start":7573.31,"end":7575.31,"text":"當然會繼續來辦理"},{"start":7575.31,"end":7577.31,"text":"這個兒童科普日的活動"},{"start":7577.31,"end":7579.31,"text":"而且會看看"},{"start":7579.31,"end":7581.31,"text":"在Open House的時候"},{"start":7581.31,"end":7583.31,"text":"因為有很多南部的親友"},{"start":7583.31,"end":7585.31,"text":"跟我講說你都在台北辦"},{"start":7585.31,"end":7587.31,"text":"現在許願要去台南"},{"start":7587.31,"end":7589.31,"text":"要有Open House"},{"start":7589.31,"end":7591.31,"text":"要有兒童科普日"},{"start":7591.31,"end":7593.31,"text":"現在就說可以"},{"start":7593.31,"end":7595.31,"text":"兩邊都有機會"},{"start":7595.31,"end":7597.31,"text":"我們立法院這邊"},{"start":7597.31,"end":7599.31,"text":"民進黨黨團絕對全力支持相關的預算"},{"start":7599.31,"end":7601.31,"text":"也希望在預算上"},{"start":7601.31,"end":7603.31,"text":"我們可以更有一些空間"},{"start":7603.31,"end":7605.31,"text":"因為之前我聽到院長說第一年"},{"start":7605.31,"end":7607.31,"text":"因為他立刻就要辦其實有點辛苦"},{"start":7607.31,"end":7609.31,"text":"去處理那個預算"},{"start":7609.31,"end":7611.31,"text":"我希望未來我們可以持續支持"},{"start":7611.31,"end":7613.31,"text":"不論是台北或是台南"},{"start":7613.31,"end":7615.31,"text":"其他的場次我們都可以持續支持"},{"start":7615.31,"end":7617.31,"text":"也謝謝陳院長願意公開承諾"},{"start":7617.31,"end":7619.31,"text":"會繼續辦理"},{"start":7619.31,"end":7621.31,"text":"除了你說的很多人都很高興"},{"start":7621.31,"end":7623.31,"text":"第二個"},{"start":7623.31,"end":7625.31,"text":"我當時也跟院長談到了"},{"start":7625.31,"end":7627.31,"text":"關於科普讀物的事情"},{"start":7627.31,"end":7629.31,"text":"我要講讀物這件事情可能很多人"},{"start":7629.31,"end":7631.31,"text":"現在覺得說都在滑手機都在看短影"},{"start":7631.31,"end":7633.31,"text":"誰要閱讀"},{"start":7633.31,"end":7635.31,"text":"但是不要忘記了當大家希望"},{"start":7635.31,"end":7637.31,"text":"尋求最真的知識"},{"start":7637.31,"end":7639.31,"text":"或者是透過閱讀去培養思辨"},{"start":7639.31,"end":7641.31,"text":"跟思考能力的時候"},{"start":7641.31,"end":7643.31,"text":"或是指書也好或是指書所轉成的電子書"},{"start":7643.31,"end":7645.31,"text":"而且也有系統的"},{"start":7645.31,"end":7647.31,"text":"處理這些知識其實是最重要的"},{"start":7647.31,"end":7649.31,"text":"那我也不確定未來"},{"start":7649.31,"end":7651.31,"text":"在陳院長主持的情況之下"},{"start":7651.31,"end":7653.31,"text":"如何支持更多的"},{"start":7653.31,"end":7655.31,"text":"科普書籍是在中研院的"},{"start":7655.31,"end":7657.31,"text":"相關計畫裡面持續發行"},{"start":7657.89,"end":7659.89,"text":"這個科普的讀物的發行"},{"start":7659.89,"end":7661.89,"text":"我相當的歡心"},{"start":7661.89,"end":7663.89,"text":"實際上我也在"},{"start":7663.89,"end":7665.89,"text":"言之有物裡面有接受訪問"},{"start":7665.89,"end":7667.89,"text":"是的"},{"start":7667.89,"end":7669.89,"text":"另外我自己也"},{"start":7669.89,"end":7671.89,"text":"跟這個"},{"start":7671.89,"end":7673.89,"text":"康健雜誌"},{"start":7673.89,"end":7675.89,"text":"有出了小大人公會素養的"},{"start":7675.89,"end":7677.89,"text":"畫冊"},{"start":7677.89,"end":7679.89,"text":"讓小孩子能夠了解"},{"start":7679.89,"end":7681.89,"text":"公共衛生的情形"},{"start":7681.89,"end":7683.89,"text":"我想這種科普讀物的向下"},{"start":7683.89,"end":7685.89,"text":"達格很重要"},{"start":7685.89,"end":7687.89,"text":"在中研研究院"},{"start":7687.89,"end":7689.89,"text":"因為我們的研究員大部分都是"},{"start":7689.89,"end":7691.89,"text":"學友專精"},{"start":7691.89,"end":7693.89,"text":"他們對於兒童讀物的撰寫"},{"start":7693.89,"end":7695.89,"text":"或者是"},{"start":7695.89,"end":7697.89,"text":"畫本的編輯"},{"start":7697.89,"end":7699.89,"text":"可能需要"},{"start":7699.89,"end":7701.89,"text":"更多的跟業界"},{"start":7701.89,"end":7703.89,"text":"來有合作出版界"},{"start":7703.89,"end":7705.89,"text":"來合作"},{"start":7705.89,"end":7707.89,"text":"這個部分我們未來再來研議"},{"start":7707.89,"end":7709.89,"text":"繼續加強的可能性"},{"start":7709.89,"end":7711.89,"text":"確實像院長你所說的"},{"start":7711.89,"end":7713.89,"text":"當時我就跟廖院長建議說"},{"start":7713.89,"end":7715.89,"text":"科普的學家老師們還來幫忙寫書"},{"start":7715.89,"end":7717.89,"text":"轉換著兒童的語言那個太困難"},{"start":7717.89,"end":7719.89,"text":"可透過專業的編輯團隊出版團隊"},{"start":7719.89,"end":7721.89,"text":"變成是中研院很重要的"},{"start":7721.89,"end":7723.89,"text":"科普團隊的助力這件事情非常重要"},{"start":7723.89,"end":7725.89,"text":"那也藉由您過去的出版經驗"},{"start":7725.89,"end":7727.89,"text":"我相信"},{"start":7727.89,"end":7729.89,"text":"院長你一定非常清楚專業編輯團隊"},{"start":7729.89,"end":7731.89,"text":"重要未來我們也希望有看到"},{"start":7731.89,"end":7733.89,"text":"更多的科普出版品不論是針對兒童"},{"start":7733.89,"end":7735.89,"text":"或是針對大人好嗎"},{"start":7738.5,"end":7740.5,"text":"好"},{"start":7739.31,"end":7741.31,"text":"保重"},{"start":7741.3,"end":7743.3,"text":"好最後"},{"start":7742.47,"end":7744.47,"text":"我講一下AI的部分"},{"start":7744.59,"end":7746.59,"text":"我看到院長你在相關的演講有分享到"},{"start":7752.57,"end":7754.57,"text":"委員可以喝個水嗎"},{"start":7754.65,"end":7756.65,"text":"好我簡單的說就是"},{"start":7759.12,"end":7761.12,"text":"對不起"},{"start":7765.45,"end":7767.45,"text":"好在青子天下的那個報導裡面"},{"start":7767.45,"end":7769.45,"text":"有講到"},{"start":7769.45,"end":7771.45,"text":"AI的普及率高達92%"},{"start":7771.45,"end":7773.45,"text":"幾乎20%的小孩"},{"start":7773.45,"end":7775.45,"text":"每天都會用到AI"},{"start":7775.45,"end":7777.45,"text":"院長你之前在社會所"},{"start":7777.45,"end":7779.45,"text":"成立30週年的時候"},{"start":7779.45,"end":7781.45,"text":"院長有講到目前我們所關注的"},{"start":7781.45,"end":7783.45,"text":"核心叫做"},{"start":7783.79,"end":7785.79,"text":"社會所可以深化AI的倫理"},{"start":7785.79,"end":7787.79,"text":"道德的治理跟社會的影響"},{"start":7787.79,"end":7789.79,"text":"回應時代的新挑戰"},{"start":7789.79,"end":7791.79,"text":"同時要兼顧人類的尊嚴"},{"start":7791.79,"end":7793.79,"text":"公共的利益跟弱勢的照顧"},{"start":7793.79,"end":7795.79,"text":"我非常謝謝院長在相關演講"},{"start":7795.79,"end":7797.79,"text":"已經提出您的看法"},{"start":7797.79,"end":7799.79,"text":"那我想要說的是目前確實AI"},{"start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他只是為了報復"},{"start":8342.65,"end":8344.65,"text":"只是為了政治報復"},{"start":8344.65,"end":8346.65,"text":"連中研院的預算都這樣大砍"},{"start":8346.65,"end":8348.65,"text":"您有什麼因應"},{"start":8349.27,"end":8353.27,"text":"我們會把我們覺得這樣的一個"},{"start":8353.27,"end":8355.27,"text":"大三預算的這個做法"},{"start":8355.27,"end":8357.27,"text":"我們會在"},{"start":8357.27,"end":8359.27,"text":"茶禮協商的時候"},{"start":8359.27,"end":8361.27,"text":"好好的跟大家說明"},{"start":8361.27,"end":8363.27,"text":"實際上這一些的"},{"start":8363.27,"end":8365.27,"text":"經費都是相當必要的"},{"start":8365.27,"end":8367.27,"text":"也謝謝這個"},{"start":8367.27,"end":8369.27,"text":"吳市長委員在這一個部分"},{"start":8369.27,"end":8371.27,"text":"在影響的部分"},{"start":8371.27,"end":8373.27,"text":"您真的是很了解我們中研研究院"},{"start":8373.27,"end":8375.27,"text":"預算正常運作的"},{"start":8375.27,"end":8377.27,"text":"這個必要 來特別感謝"},{"start":8377.27,"end":8379.27,"text":"另外呢"},{"start":8379.27,"end":8381.27,"text":"我剛才講的3.5億"},{"start":8381.27,"end":8383.27,"text":"實際上只是人員訓練的部分"},{"start":8383.27,"end":8385.27,"text":"如果包括其他部分 確實到4.8億"},{"start":8385.27,"end":8387.27,"text":"這對中研研究院的正常運作"},{"start":8387.27,"end":8389.27,"text":"有很大很大的影響"},{"start":8389.27,"end":8391.27,"text":"我們一定會具體力爭"},{"start":8391.27,"end":8393.27,"text":"來爭取不要有這樣的一個三前的狀況"},{"start":8393.27,"end":8395.27,"text":"我的建議"},{"start":8395.27,"end":8397.27,"text":"三項"},{"start":8397.27,"end":8399.27,"text":"第一項 當然要趕快跟我們執政黨"},{"start":8399.27,"end":8401.27,"text":"負責協商的黨鞭聯繫"},{"start":8401.27,"end":8403.27,"text":"在政黨協商的時候"},{"start":8403.27,"end":8405.27,"text":"我們一定要具體力爭"},{"start":8405.27,"end":8407.27,"text":"雖然我們明知在野黨的委員"},{"start":8407.27,"end":8409.27,"text":"就是政治報復"},{"start":8409.27,"end":8411.27,"text":"但是我們該做的事"},{"start":8411.27,"end":8413.27,"text":"我們也要努力去遊說"},{"start":8413.27,"end":8415.27,"text":"我們積極的把每一個預算"},{"start":8415.27,"end":8417.27,"text":"如果這樣被二砍"},{"start":8417.27,"end":8419.27,"text":"將會影響中研院的各項運作"},{"start":8419.27,"end":8421.27,"text":"要清楚的向委員說明"},{"start":8421.27,"end":8423.27,"text":"我們該做的事情"},{"start":8423.27,"end":8425.27,"text":"我們要努力"},{"start":8425.27,"end":8427.27,"text":"第三件事情 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我也要再次挑戰"},{"start":8468.54,"end":8470.54,"text":"用你的魔法打敗你"},{"start":8470.54,"end":8472.54,"text":"用翁曉玲的魔法打敗他"},{"start":8472.54,"end":8474.54,"text":"他所有的預算提案"},{"start":8474.54,"end":8476.54,"text":"複製貼上"},{"start":8476.54,"end":8478.54,"text":"都是為了遵節支出"},{"start":8478.54,"end":8480.54,"text":"他說 我們要"},{"start":8480.54,"end":8482.54,"text":"強化國防"},{"start":8482.54,"end":8484.54,"text":"所以說呢 這個國防支出"},{"start":8484.54,"end":8486.54,"text":"創下歷史新高 所以各部會"},{"start":8486.54,"end":8488.54,"text":"就要遵節支出 要勒緊褲帶"},{"start":8489.37,"end":8491.37,"text":"這不就是邏輯錯置嗎"},{"start":8491.37,"end":8493.37,"text":"我們現在提出的無人機"},{"start":8493.37,"end":8495.37,"text":"特別條例 行政部門"},{"start":8495.37,"end":8497.37,"text":"就是擔心"},{"start":8497.37,"end":8499.37,"text":"排擠了公務預算"},{"start":8499.37,"end":8501.37,"text":"排擠了年度預算 排擠了"},{"start":8501.37,"end":8503.37,"text":"教科文 排擠了社福"},{"start":8503.37,"end":8505.37,"text":"所以我們用特別預算的方式"},{"start":8505.37,"end":8507.37,"text":"一次編列兩千一百億"},{"start":8507.37,"end":8509.37,"text":"可以有效的"},{"start":8509.37,"end":8511.37,"text":"一次授權 快速建立"},{"start":8511.37,"end":8513.37,"text":"飛鴻無人機供應鏈的"},{"start":8513.37,"end":8515.37,"text":"量能 能夠減少"},{"start":8515.37,"end":8517.37,"text":"預算的排擠"},{"start":8517.37,"end":8519.37,"text":"這就是行政院"},{"start":8519.37,"end":8521.37,"text":"為什麼要努力的"},{"start":8521.37,"end":8523.37,"text":"用特別預算的編列"},{"start":8523.37,"end":8525.37,"text":"來因應無人機產業"},{"start":8525.37,"end":8527.37,"text":"跟國防的要求"},{"start":8529.4,"end":8531.4,"text":"所以翁曉琳委員的提案"},{"start":8531.4,"end":8533.4,"text":"就是自我打臉"},{"start":8533.4,"end":8535.4,"text":"最後我拋出這個問題"},{"start":8535.4,"end":8537.4,"text":"就您學研的角度"},{"start":8537.4,"end":8539.4,"text":"我們的無人機"},{"start":8539.4,"end":8541.4,"text":"對於台灣在國防"},{"start":8541.4,"end":8543.4,"text":"在安全任性 在各項的民生"},{"start":8543.4,"end":8545.4,"text":"應用 您是不是"},{"start":8545.4,"end":8547.4,"text":"來支持我們行政院"},{"start":8547.4,"end":8549.4,"text":"目前國防"},{"start":8549.65,"end":8551.65,"text":"產業都缺無人機不可的"},{"start":8551.65,"end":8553.65,"text":"這樣子的一個特別"},{"start":8553.65,"end":8555.65,"text":"條例的方向呢"},{"start":8555.65,"end":8557.65,"text":"是 其實無人機確實是"},{"start":8557.65,"end":8559.65,"text":"相當的重要 不管是在國內"},{"start":8559.65,"end":8561.65,"text":"或者是在國外現有的案例"},{"start":8561.65,"end":8563.65,"text":"都知道無人機的使用"},{"start":8563.65,"end":8565.65,"text":"越來越普遍 而且不管是在國防"},{"start":8565.65,"end":8567.65,"text":"民生方面都很重要"},{"start":8567.65,"end":8569.65,"text":"所以我國"},{"start":8569.65,"end":8571.65,"text":"確實是需要在這一方面"},{"start":8571.65,"end":8573.65,"text":"有一個特別的預算來支持"},{"start":8573.65,"end":8575.65,"text":"因為您過去擔任過"},{"start":8575.65,"end":8577.65,"text":"我們的副元首 擔任過行政院長"},{"start":8577.65,"end":8579.65,"text":"我想您一定非常的感同身受"},{"start":8579.65,"end":8581.65,"text":"在野黨不好好當"},{"start":8582.52,"end":8584.52,"text":"立法院的工作"},{"start":8584.52,"end":8586.52,"text":"立法院只搶當行政院的工作"},{"start":8586.52,"end":8588.52,"text":"違反了憲法"},{"start":8588.52,"end":8590.52,"text":"權力分立的原則"},{"start":8590.52,"end":8592.52,"text":"現在在野黨的委員不審預算"},{"start":8592.52,"end":8594.52,"text":"卻大量的"},{"start":8594.52,"end":8596.52,"text":"在編列預算"},{"start":8596.52,"end":8598.52,"text":"用這些預算的手段"},{"start":8598.52,"end":8600.52,"text":"破壞權力分立的原則"},{"start":8600.52,"end":8602.52,"text":"甚至在無人機的條例"},{"start":8602.52,"end":8604.52,"text":"重要的建軍"},{"start":8604.52,"end":8606.52,"text":"戰備的任務"},{"start":8606.52,"end":8608.52,"text":"他們卻惡意的架空國防部"},{"start":8608.52,"end":8610.52,"text":"重大的國防採購"},{"start":8610.52,"end":8612.52,"text":"由經濟部去主管"},{"start":8612.52,"end":8614.52,"text":"我想這個科學家"},{"start":8614.52,"end":8616.52,"text":"應該都非常難以理解"},{"start":8616.52,"end":8618.52,"text":"我頭痛"},{"start":8618.52,"end":8620.52,"text":"為什麼去看骨科呢"},{"start":8621.74,"end":8623.74,"text":"對不對 我胃痛"},{"start":8623.74,"end":8625.74,"text":"為什麼安排我去看皮膚科呢"},{"start":8627.09,"end":8629.09,"text":"更重要的是排除國防自主的"},{"start":8629.09,"end":8631.09,"text":"三項重要的採購"},{"start":8631.09,"end":8633.09,"text":"都被排除在在野黨的版本之外"},{"start":8633.09,"end":8635.09,"text":"還有我們對於"},{"start":8635.09,"end":8637.09,"text":"其他公務預算的排擠風險"},{"start":8637.09,"end":8639.09,"text":"我想"},{"start":8639.09,"end":8641.09,"text":"向社會論述是重要的"},{"start":8641.09,"end":8643.09,"text":"就無人機這個課題"},{"start":8643.09,"end":8645.09,"text":"這也攸關我們的民生應用"},{"start":8645.09,"end":8647.09,"text":"我們的科研端"},{"start":8647.09,"end":8649.09,"text":"也請院長率領我們中研院的"},{"start":8649.09,"end":8651.09,"text":"夥伴們"},{"start":8651.09,"end":8653.09,"text":"把國家產業的需求"},{"start":8653.09,"end":8655.09,"text":"國防的需求大聲的向社會論述"},{"start":8655.09,"end":8657.09,"text":"不好意思因為第一次質詢"},{"start":8657.09,"end":8659.09,"text":"有點期待講的比較久"},{"start":8659.09,"end":8661.09,"text":"我們一起加油 謝謝院長"},{"start":8661.09,"end":8663.09,"text":"謝謝吳思瑤委員的質詢"},{"start":8663.09,"end":8665.09,"text":"請院長回座"},{"start":8666.02,"end":8668.02,"text":"下一位有請羅志強委員進行詢答"},{"start":8675.65,"end":8677.65,"text":"有請院長"},{"start":8682.22,"end":8684.22,"text":"羅委員 院長"},{"start":8683.8,"end":8685.8,"text":"院長好"},{"start":8685.27,"end":8687.27,"text":"AI是台灣轉型"},{"start":8687.27,"end":8689.27,"text":"跟成長的重要機會"},{"start":8689.27,"end":8691.27,"text":"中研院也將"},{"start":8691.27,"end":8693.27,"text":"建構AI與治理工作"},{"start":8693.27,"end":8695.27,"text":"做為"},{"start":8695.27,"end":8697.27,"text":"重要工作"},{"start":8697.27,"end":8699.27,"text":"那你覺得發展AI"},{"start":8699.87,"end":8701.87,"text":"電力扮演的角色是什麼"},{"start":8703.14,"end":8707.14,"text":"AI在中研研院扮演的角色嗎"},{"start":8707.14,"end":8709.14,"text":"我說電力 台灣的能源供應"},{"start":8709.14,"end":8711.14,"text":"對AI扮演的角色"},{"start":8711.14,"end":8713.14,"text":"抱歉我沒有聽清楚"},{"start":8713.14,"end":8715.14,"text":"當然電力扮演的角色"},{"start":8715.14,"end":8717.14,"text":"是相當的重要"},{"start":8717.14,"end":8719.14,"text":"有足夠的電力供應"},{"start":8719.14,"end":8721.14,"text":"是很重要的"},{"start":8721.14,"end":8723.14,"text":"而中研研院在AI的研究上"},{"start":8723.14,"end":8725.14,"text":"現在也在發展另外一個方向"},{"start":8725.14,"end":8727.14,"text":"所謂的綠AI"},{"start":8727.14,"end":8729.14,"text":"希望發展一些"},{"start":8729.14,"end":8731.14,"text":"語言模型"},{"start":8731.14,"end":8733.14,"text":"語言模型是使用的電量比較少"},{"start":8733.14,"end":8735.14,"text":"而且是對特殊的領域"},{"start":8735.14,"end":8737.14,"text":"可以用的AI的系統"},{"start":8737.14,"end":8739.14,"text":"這是我們在學術研究發展上"},{"start":8739.14,"end":8741.14,"text":"在一個努力的目標"},{"start":8741.14,"end":8743.14,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":8743.14,"end":8745.14,"text":"開源節流一樣重要"},{"start":8745.14,"end":8747.14,"text":"你要發展綠色的AI"},{"start":8747.14,"end":8749.14,"text":"來減少電力使用"},{"start":8749.14,"end":8751.14,"text":"這當然是一個值得肯定的方向"},{"start":8751.14,"end":8753.14,"text":"但是以現在電力及算力"},{"start":8753.14,"end":8755.14,"text":"基本上是國際的共識"},{"start":8755.14,"end":8757.14,"text":"所以"},{"start":8757.14,"end":8759.14,"text":"能源非常的重要"},{"start":8759.14,"end":8761.14,"text":"這一點我想院長不否認"},{"start":8761.14,"end":8763.14,"text":"對 全世界都一樣"},{"start":8764.15,"end":8766.15,"text":"預計到2029"},{"start":8766.15,"end":8768.15,"text":"全國AI算力中心所需要的電力"},{"start":8768.15,"end":8770.15,"text":"將是目前的7.5倍"},{"start":8770.15,"end":8772.15,"text":"那前中研院長"},{"start":8772.15,"end":8774.15,"text":"廖俊智也說"},{"start":8774.15,"end":8776.15,"text":"若要全面進臨轉型"},{"start":8776.15,"end":8778.15,"text":"同時支撐AI發展"},{"start":8778.15,"end":8780.15,"text":"跟經濟成長帶來的"},{"start":8780.15,"end":8782.15,"text":"新增需求"},{"start":8782.15,"end":8784.15,"text":"台灣年用電量可能從"},{"start":8784.15,"end":8786.15,"text":"目前的2800億度"},{"start":8786.15,"end":8788.15,"text":"大幅攀升至5000億度以上"},{"start":8788.15,"end":8790.15,"text":"能源供應"},{"start":8790.15,"end":8792.15,"text":"缺口將成為"},{"start":8792.15,"end":8794.15,"text":"攸關台灣"},{"start":8794.1,"end":8796.1,"text":"產業"},{"start":8795.48,"end":8797.48,"text":"國家安全的重要課題"},{"start":8798.12,"end":8800.12,"text":"我們的廖前院長的這個預估"},{"start":8800.12,"end":8802.12,"text":"院長你認同嗎"},{"start":8802.4,"end":8804.4,"text":"這個預估我不是要他預估的方向"},{"start":8804.4,"end":8806.4,"text":"但是我相信"},{"start":8806.4,"end":8808.4,"text":"廖前院長如果提出這樣的估計的話"},{"start":8808.4,"end":8810.4,"text":"如果這個數據是他講的話"},{"start":8810.4,"end":8812.4,"text":"我相信一定有他手本"},{"start":8814.2,"end":8816.2,"text":"好"},{"start":8815.14,"end":8817.14,"text":"三年前院長在立法院備訓"},{"start":8817.14,"end":8819.14,"text":"曾經說過"},{"start":8819.9,"end":8821.9,"text":"核電是綠電"},{"start":8822.37,"end":8824.37,"text":"三年前了"},{"start":8824.26,"end":8826.26,"text":"這個他說過什麼我不來聽"},{"start":8826.99,"end":8828.99,"text":"你在立法院備訓的時候"},{"start":8828.99,"end":8830.99,"text":"在行政院的時候"},{"start":8830.99,"end":8832.99,"text":"你有說過"},{"start":8833.86,"end":8835.86,"text":"當時有不同的意見"},{"start":8835.86,"end":8837.86,"text":"有些人核電說不是綠電"},{"start":8837.86,"end":8839.86,"text":"所以看你怎麼定義"},{"start":8839.86,"end":8841.86,"text":"經濟部長王美花"},{"start":8841.86,"end":8843.86,"text":"當時就否定你的說法"},{"start":8843.86,"end":8845.86,"text":"說綠電不包括核電"},{"start":8845.86,"end":8847.86,"text":"可是今天"},{"start":8847.86,"end":8849.86,"text":"不是來跟你談綠電是不是"},{"start":8849.86,"end":8851.86,"text":"核電的問題"},{"start":8851.86,"end":8853.86,"text":"我先來談一件事情"},{"start":8853.86,"end":8855.86,"text":"我想請問院長你應該知道"},{"start":8855.86,"end":8857.86,"text":"賴清德總統"},{"start":8857.86,"end":8859.86,"text":"的非核家園民進黨非核家園"},{"start":8859.86,"end":8861.86,"text":"政策賴清德總統已經轉彎了"},{"start":8861.86,"end":8863.86,"text":"對不對"},{"start":8863.86,"end":8865.86,"text":"他已經是決定要使用核能了"},{"start":8865.86,"end":8867.86,"text":"對核二核三現在還在做"},{"start":8867.86,"end":8869.86,"text":"安全評估"},{"start":8869.86,"end":8871.86,"text":"往研議的方向在準備當中"},{"start":8871.86,"end":8873.86,"text":"對不對"},{"start":8873.86,"end":8875.86,"text":"院長我就要特別講一件事情"},{"start":8875.86,"end":8877.86,"text":"我想請問你"},{"start":8877.86,"end":8879.86,"text":"你覺得非核家園的政策"},{"start":8879.86,"end":8881.86,"text":"賴清德的轉彎你支不支持"},{"start":8881.86,"end":8883.86,"text":"我想在整體的"},{"start":8883.86,"end":8885.86,"text":"核電的使用上"},{"start":8885.86,"end":8887.86,"text":"在專研就院的能源相關的"},{"start":8887.86,"end":8889.86,"text":"政策建議書裡面"},{"start":8889.86,"end":8891.86,"text":"也有提到說"},{"start":8891.86,"end":8893.86,"text":"核能在台灣的使用"},{"start":8893.86,"end":8895.86,"text":"有三個部分第一個就是安全"},{"start":8895.86,"end":8897.86,"text":"無虞第二個是"},{"start":8897.86,"end":8899.86,"text":"核廢料或者剛才"},{"start":8899.86,"end":8901.86,"text":"委員講的叫做"},{"start":8901.86,"end":8903.86,"text":"殘餘的核燃料"},{"start":8903.86,"end":8905.86,"text":"的處理"},{"start":8905.86,"end":8907.86,"text":"第三個就是社會共識"},{"start":8907.86,"end":8909.86,"text":"如果有這三個社會共識的時候"},{"start":8909.86,"end":8911.86,"text":"都能夠達到目標"},{"start":8911.86,"end":8913.86,"text":"就可以使用"},{"start":8913.86,"end":8915.86,"text":"十年的非核政策你也深深"},{"start":8915.86,"end":8917.86,"text":"參與其中因為你當時也是"},{"start":8917.86,"end":8919.86,"text":"院長又是副總統"},{"start":8919.86,"end":8921.86,"text":"你剛剛講這三個前提是十年也沒變過"},{"start":8921.86,"end":8923.86,"text":"對"},{"start":8923.86,"end":8925.86,"text":"但是賴總統在十年前提沒變過"},{"start":8925.86,"end":8927.86,"text":"的情況之下已經下令"},{"start":8927.86,"end":8929.86,"text":"要非核家園政策要停下來"},{"start":8929.86,"end":8931.86,"text":"要開始研議核電"},{"start":8931.86,"end":8933.86,"text":"那我當然知道"},{"start":8933.86,"end":8935.86,"text":"對於院長來說你終究"},{"start":8935.86,"end":8937.86,"text":"是前副總統"},{"start":8937.86,"end":8939.86,"text":"就是前行政院院長"},{"start":8939.86,"end":8941.86,"text":"所以我看你的回答有點為難"},{"start":8941.86,"end":8943.86,"text":"我也可以了解但是我要講一件事情"},{"start":8943.86,"end":8945.86,"text":"我想讓院長跟我們社會大眾"},{"start":8945.86,"end":8947.86,"text":"評評理"},{"start":8947.73,"end":8949.73,"text":"其實我"},{"start":8950.01,"end":8952.01,"text":"一直都主張核能必須"},{"start":8952.01,"end":8954.01,"text":"作為能源政策的選項這十多年來"},{"start":8954.01,"end":8956.01,"text":"我沒有改變過"},{"start":8956.01,"end":8958.01,"text":"當時我就講過"},{"start":8958.01,"end":8960.01,"text":"電力必缺"},{"start":8960.01,"end":8962.01,"text":"電價必漲空污必增"},{"start":8962.01,"end":8964.01,"text":"就是如果採取非核家園"},{"start":8964.01,"end":8966.01,"text":"一定要付出這三樣代價"},{"start":8966.01,"end":8968.01,"text":"但是現在其實"},{"star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我來跟院長說"},{"start":9128.98,"end":9130.98,"text":"中聯"},{"start":9130.98,"end":9132.98,"text":"有品案上下游超過"},{"start":9132.98,"end":9134.98,"text":"一千三百家的"},{"start":9134.98,"end":9136.98,"text":"業者受影響涵蓋食品"},{"start":9136.98,"end":9138.98,"text":"廠餐廳飯店團散各業別"},{"start":9138.98,"end":9140.98,"text":"審計部也早在"},{"start":9140.98,"end":9142.98,"text":"二零二四年七月"},{"start":9142.98,"end":9144.98,"text":"中聯有品案"},{"start":9144.98,"end":9146.98,"text":"結果公佈的審核報告"},{"start":9146.98,"end":9148.98,"text":"就已經警示我們中央政府"},{"start":9148.98,"end":9150.98,"text":"自主通報未能落實"},{"start":9150.98,"end":9152.98,"text":"追蹤的覆蓋率偏低"},{"start":9152.98,"end":9154.98,"text":"然後政府的相關"},{"start":9154.98,"end":9156.98,"text":"作為缺乏"},{"start":9156.98,"end":9158.98,"text":"可能會導致所謂的"},{"start":9158.98,"end":9160.98,"text":"食安的風暴"},{"start":9160.98,"end":9162.98,"text":"但是這兩年過去"},{"start":9162.98,"end":9164.98,"text":"結果中聯有品案"},{"start":9164.98,"end":9166.98,"text":"還是發生"},{"start":9166.26,"end":9168.26,"text":"那當時我記得我跟"},{"start":9168.26,"end":9170.26,"text":"那個院長爭論"},{"start":9170.26,"end":9172.26,"text":"所以院長那時候其實把"},{"start":9172.26,"end":9174.26,"text":"系統性食安的定義"},{"start":9174.26,"end":9176.26,"text":"我念給你聽說是食品鏈的上游到"},{"start":9176.26,"end":9178.26,"text":"下游都受到嚴重影響"},{"start":9178.26,"end":9180.26,"text":"而且發生於相同"},{"start":9180.26,"end":9182.26,"text":"業別的多家業者"},{"start":9182.26,"end":9184.26,"text":"按照當時院長您的"},{"start":9184.26,"end":9186.26,"text":"定義我也必須說其實院長"},{"start":9186.26,"end":9188.26,"text":"可以明白的告訴大家蘇格安宏的"},{"start":9188.26,"end":9190.26,"text":"事件我們先放著"},{"start":9190.26,"end":9192.26,"text":"我認為是系統性但那時候你不認為"},{"start":9192.26,"end":9194.26,"text":"是但是"},{"start":9194.26,"end":9196.26,"text":"你不覺得原來食品鏈自然有品"},{"start":9196.26,"end":9198.26,"text":"就百分之百就是一個"},{"start":9198.26,"end":9200.26,"text":"系統性的食安問題"},{"start":9200.26,"end":9202.26,"text":"你只有把問題的嚴重性"},{"start":9202.26,"end":9204.26,"text":"點出來我們才能夠從中找出"},{"start":9204.26,"end":9206.26,"text":"問題來去解決問題"},{"start":9206.26,"end":9208.26,"text":"不知道院長認不認同這一段"},{"start":9208.26,"end":9210.26,"text":"我的這個說法"},{"start":9210.26,"end":9212.26,"text":"所以實際上這一件事情"},{"start":9212.26,"end":9214.26,"text":"我剛才在答覆的其他委員"},{"start":9214.26,"end":9216.26,"text":"的說也強調食安的問題"},{"start":9216.26,"end":9218.26,"text":"本來就是中央跟地方"},{"start":9218.26,"end":9220.26,"text":"還有這個廠商都是要負起責任"},{"start":9220.26,"end":9222.26,"text":"來三方面負起責任來"},{"start":9222.26,"end":9224.26,"text":"原頭的管制或者製造"},{"start":9224.26,"end":9226.26,"text":"的管理以及"},{"start":9226.26,"end":9228.26,"text":"這個稽查的"},{"start":9228.26,"end":9230.26,"text":"頻率然後"},{"start":9230.26,"end":9232.26,"text":"予以這個刻意重責"},{"start":9232.26,"end":9234.26,"text":"等等都是在食安五藩裡面"},{"start":9234.26,"end":9236.26,"text":"那我覺得這一次的"},{"start":9236.26,"end":9238.26,"text":"食油的問題確確實實"},{"start":9238.26,"end":9240.26,"text":"讓我們看得到"},{"start":9240.26,"end":9242.26,"text":"有一些法規是"},{"start":9242.26,"end":9244.26,"text":"需要來修改修改"},{"start":9244.26,"end":9246.26,"text":"以後才能夠使得"},{"start":9246.26,"end":9248.26,"text":"這樣的事件能夠不會"},{"start":9248.26,"end":9250.26,"text":"再發生不管是"},{"start":9250.26,"end":9252.26,"text":"山洪事件分泡泥淡"},{"start":9252.26,"end":9254.26,"text":"到這一次的所謂的中聯油"},{"start":9254.26,"end":9256.26,"text":"的毒品油"},{"start":9256.26,"end":9258.26,"text":"一級致癌我現在人民天天吃下毒"},{"start":9258.26,"end":9260.26,"text":"那"},{"start":9260.26,"end":9262.26,"text":"作為前行政官員有機會"},{"start":9262.26,"end":9264.26,"text":"我也希望院長來跟我們現在"},{"start":9264.26,"end":9266.26,"text":"的這個行政首長"},{"start":9266.26,"end":9268.26,"text":"來奉勸一句"},{"start":9268.26,"end":9270.26,"text":"人民現在真的很不安"},{"start":9270.26,"end":9272.26,"text":"很不安"},{"start":9272.26,"end":9274.26,"text":"透明透明再透明是"},{"start":9274.26,"end":9276.26,"text":"重中之重我也必須講"},{"start":9276.26,"end":9278.26,"text":"當然業者的隱匿"},{"start":9278.26,"end":9280.26,"text":"跟自主通報未落實"},{"start":9280.26,"end":9282.26,"text":"這個是原因之一"},{"start":9282.26,"end":9284.26,"text":"可是即便資訊"},{"start":9284.26,"end":9286.26,"text":"揭露之後你會發現"},{"start":9286.26,"end":9288.26,"text":"我們的中央政府很多地方"},{"start":9288.26,"end":9290.26,"text":"處理也是拖拖拉拉"},{"start":9290.26,"end":9292.26,"text":"一開始不下架第二層"},{"start":9292.26,"end":9294.26,"text":"產品又不公佈"},{"start":9294.26,"end":9296.26,"text":"下油名單也不處理"},{"start":9296.26,"end":9298.26,"text":"含氧油的20%以下的產品"},{"start":9298.26,"end":9300.26,"text":"這些都是過去"},{"start":9300.26,"end":9302.26,"text":"切香嘗試的做法直到"},{"start":9302.26,"end":9304.26,"text":"人民的壓力開始增加了"},{"start":9304.26,"end":9306.26,"text":"就發現說那現在就是"},{"start":9306.26,"end":9308.26,"text":"大家第二層產品"},{"start":9308.26,"end":9310.26,"text":"然後公佈下油名單"},{"start":9310.26,"end":9312.26,"text":"20%以下的含氧油"},{"start":9312.26,"end":9314.26,"text":"也一樣要處理"},{"start":9314.26,"end":9316.26,"text":"所以這些都不是一個民塊政府"},{"start":9316.26,"end":9318.26,"text":"該做的事情"},{"start":9318.61,"end":9320.61,"text":"台灣人民的憤怒是很清楚的"},{"start":9320.61,"end":9322.61,"text":"那我當然還是要肯定"},{"start":9322.61,"end":9324.61,"text":"我們的卓榮泰院長跟賴慶德總統"},{"start":9324.61,"end":9326.61,"text":"我們"},{"start":9326.61,"end":9328.61,"text":"這個人民決定7月25號"},{"start":9328.61,"end":9330.61,"text":"上街頭"},{"start":9330.61,"end":9332.61,"text":"然後對史蘭表達重大的怒吼"},{"start":9332.61,"end":9334.61,"text":"跟抗議之後終於今天"},{"start":9334.61,"end":9336.61,"text":"我們行政院院長"},{"start":9336.61,"end":9338.61,"text":"終於願意驅尊救駕"},{"start":9338.61,"end":9340.61,"text":"來說召開記者會"},{"start":9340.61,"end":9342.61,"text":"告訴大家他要來推"},{"start":9342.61,"end":9344.61,"text":"修法工作可是抱歉"},{"start":9344.61,"end":9346.61,"text":"修法當然重要"},{"start":9346.61,"end":9348.61,"text":"但是法律放在那裡"},{"start":9348.61,"end":9350.61,"text":"就像審計部告訴你"},{"start":9350.61,"end":9352.61,"text":"法律放在那裡可是行政機關"},{"start":9352.61,"end":9354.61,"text":"沒有認真執行"},{"start":9354.61,"end":9356.61,"text":"的這個所謂的能力問題"},{"start":9356.61,"end":9358.61,"text":"在前面的時候說真的"},{"start":9358.61,"end":9360.61,"text":"再完備的法律也是人來執行"},{"start":9360.61,"end":9362.61,"text":"所以在這邊我還是希望"},{"start":9362.61,"end":9364.61,"text":"行政官員民進黨立委都要求"},{"start":9364.61,"end":9366.61,"text":"要究責行政部門在這次"},{"start":9366.61,"end":9368.61,"text":"拖拖拉拉跟慢半拍"},{"start":9369.59,"end":9371.59,"text":"行政部門你可以不理在野黨"},{"start":9371.59,"end":9373.59,"text":"但是連你執政黨立委"},{"start":9373.59,"end":9375.59,"text":"都這樣講的時候你真的要好好"},{"start":9375.59,"end":9377.59,"text":"聽聽那是全民的聲音"},{"start":9377.59,"end":9379.59,"text":"那這一點也希望我們院長"},{"start":9379.59,"end":9381.59,"text":"也能夠把它放在心上"},{"start":9381.59,"end":9383.59,"text":"以上謝謝你"},{"start":9383.59,"end":9385.59,"text":"謝謝羅志強委員的諮詢"},{"start":9385.59,"end":9387.59,"text":"請院長回座"},{"start":9388.47,"end":9390.47,"text":"下一位"},{"start":9389.99,"end":9391.99,"text":"有請吳佩儀委員進行詢答"},{"start":9400.32,"end":9402.32,"text":"謝謝主席我請中研院"},{"start":9404.55,"end":9406.55,"text":"院長陳建仁院長"},{"start":9406.55,"end":9408.55,"text":"好有請院長"},{"start":9409.38,"end":9411.38,"text":"吳佩儀委員好"},{"start":9411.51,"end":9413.51,"text":"院長好"},{"start":9413.51,"end":9415.51,"text":"首先就要恭喜您上任了"},{"start":9415.51,"end":9417.51,"text":"在你上任的時候發表的這個"},{"start":9417.51,"end":9419.51,"text":"致詞其中有五大方向"},{"start":9419.51,"end":9421.51,"text":"國人都非常的關心"},{"start":9421.51,"end":9423.51,"text":"以及期待"},{"start":9423.51,"end":9425.51,"text":"那麼當中我們特別關心的是"},{"start":9425.51,"end":9427.51,"text":"院長您在致詞當中"},{"start":9427.51,"end":9429.51,"text":"也感謝了過去"},{"start":9429.51,"end":9431.51,"text":"歷任的院長例如說"},{"start":9431.51,"end":9433.51,"text":"像歷院者前院長"},{"start":9433.51,"end":9435.51,"text":"他任內就是特別去"},{"start":9435.51,"end":9437.51,"text":"延攬了這些旅外的學者"},{"start":9437.51,"end":9439.51,"text":"回國來做學術"},{"start":9439.51,"end":9441.51,"text":"的研究跟貢獻"},{"start":9441.51,"end":9443.51,"text":"這幾年這也是中研院很努力的"},{"start":9443.51,"end":9445.51,"text":"一個方向"},{"start":9445.51,"end":9447.51,"text":"但是我們現在看到國內的"},{"start":9447.51,"end":9449.51,"text":"研究人員特別是我們中研院"},{"start":9449.51,"end":9451.51,"text":"過去在前任"},{"start":9451.51,"end":9453.51,"text":"廖院長任內成功當時"},{"start":9453.51,"end":9455.51,"text":"爭取了來去增加待遇"},{"start":9455.51,"end":9457.51,"text":"提升15%"},{"start":9457.51,"end":9459.51,"text":"也是院長您在任內的時候"},{"start":9459.51,"end":9461.51,"text":"一起完成的一個進步"},{"start":9461.51,"end":9463.51,"text":"但是我們還是希望說"},{"start":9463.51,"end":9465.51,"text":"我們中研院的這些研究人員"},{"start":9465.51,"end":9467.51,"text":"在整個國際的學術"},{"start":9467.51,"end":9469.51,"text":"市場當中"},{"start":9469.51,"end":9471.51,"text":"我們臺灣能夠給予他們足夠的"},{"start":9471.51,"end":9473.51,"text":"支持讓他們能夠更專心的"},{"start":9473.51,"end":9475.51,"text":"來去進行學術研究"},{"start":9475.51,"end":9477.51,"text":"所以關於我們研究"},{"start":9477.51,"end":9479.51,"text":"人員待遇的提升院長"},{"start":9479.51,"end":9481.51,"text":"您目前有沒有什麼樣的想法"},{"start":9481.51,"end":9483.51,"text":"關於研究人員待遇的提升"},{"start":9483.51,"end":9485.51,"text":"的話我想不只是中研院"},{"start":9485.51,"end":9487.51,"text":"包括各個研究大學"},{"start":9487.51,"end":9489.51,"text":"裡面的同仁"},{"start":9489.51,"end":9491.51,"text":"其實都有需要"},{"start":9491.51,"end":9493.51,"text":"當我們要跟全世界主宰的時候"},{"start":9493.51,"end":9495.51,"text":"進駐人才的時候就需要"},{"start":9495.51,"end":9497.51,"text":"在薪資上有所加強"},{"start":9497.51,"end":9499.51,"text":"那我最近也有跟"},{"start":9499.51,"end":9501.51,"text":"教育部有在"},{"start":9501.51,"end":9503.51,"text":"討論怎麼樣在這一個部分"},{"start":9503.51,"end":9505.51,"text":"我們能夠讓"},{"start":9505.51,"end":9507.51,"text":"這個"},{"start":9507.51,"end":9509.51,"text":"學術研究加級的部分"},{"start":9509.51,"end":9511.51,"text":"再次的提升那以往"},{"start":9511.51,"end":9513.51,"text":"我們就是學術研究加級"},{"start":9513.51,"end":9515.51,"text":"增加15%來增加薪資"},{"start":9515.51,"end":9517.51,"text":"另外一個部分"},{"start":9517.51,"end":9519.51,"text":"也就是對於特別積優的研究員"},{"start":9519.51,"end":9521.51,"text":"應該給予比較好的"},{"start":9521.51,"end":9523.51,"text":"這個獎勵的方式來進行"},{"start":9523.51,"end":9525.51,"text":"那這一個部分"},{"start":9525.51,"end":9527.51,"text":"我在當任行政院院長的時候"},{"start":9527.51,"end":9529.51,"text":"已經把國會的"},{"start":9529.51,"end":9531.51,"text":"傑出研究獎或者是總統"},{"start":9531.51,"end":9533.51,"text":"科學獎的這個獎金有增加"},{"start":9533.51,"end":9535.51,"text":"但是除了這個之外"},{"start":9535.51,"end":9537.51,"text":"我相信全盤的薪資的檢討"},{"start":9537.51,"end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說我們這個招牌"},{"start":9996.55,"end":9998.55,"text":"以前三四十年前"},{"start":9998.55,"end":10000.55,"text":"有這個好萊塢電影故意講說"},{"start":10000.55,"end":10002.55,"text":"什麼一個雨傘破掉說"},{"start":10002.55,"end":10004.55,"text":"Made in Taiwan嗎"},{"start":10004.55,"end":10006.55,"text":"那個是那個時候但現在"},{"start":10006.55,"end":10008.55,"text":"Made in Taiwan代表的是什麼NIT是一個品質保證"},{"start":10008.55,"end":10010.55,"text":"那未來我們也希望是說"},{"start":10010.55,"end":10012.55,"text":"能夠有"},{"start":10012.64,"end":10014.64,"text":"更好的一個方向是我們自己跟我們的定位"},{"start":10014.64,"end":10016.64,"text":"那其中AI的部分"},{"start":10016.64,"end":10018.64,"text":"我想更具體的"},{"start":10018.64,"end":10020.64,"text":"要跟這個院長來"},{"start":10020.64,"end":10022.64,"text":"就教跟討論"},{"start":10022.64,"end":10024.64,"text":"因為我們現在大家都各自盤點"},{"start":10024.64,"end":10026.64,"text":"經濟部有經濟部的規劃教育部有教育部的規劃"},{"start":10026.64,"end":10028.64,"text":"到底我們AI的人才"},{"start":10028.64,"end":10030.64,"text":"要多少"},{"start":10030.64,"end":10032.64,"text":"以及我們能夠落實"},{"start":10032.64,"end":10034.64,"text":"往後幾年裡面能夠"},{"start":10034.64,"end":10036.64,"text":"持續的培養這個人才的一個部分"},{"start":10036.64,"end":10038.64,"text":"院長能不能再"},{"start":10038.64,"end":10040.64,"text":"有一些想法或是建議提出來"},{"start":10040.64,"end":10042.64,"text":"我跟宏偉報告一下"},{"start":10042.64,"end":10044.64,"text":"實際上我還沒有接任"},{"start":10044.64,"end":10046.64,"text":"院長以前"},{"start":10046.64,"end":10048.64,"text":"我們教育部的政部長還有"},{"start":10048.64,"end":10050.64,"text":"國科會的吳祖偉"},{"start":10050.64,"end":10052.64,"text":"我們就有討論過好幾次"},{"start":10052.64,"end":10054.64,"text":"還有關於我們的"},{"start":10054.64,"end":10056.64,"text":"高階人才培育的這個部分"},{"start":10056.64,"end":10058.64,"text":"還有這個一般的"},{"start":10058.64,"end":10060.64,"text":"AI人才的"},{"start":10060.64,"end":10062.64,"text":"訓練的部分"},{"start":10062.64,"end":10064.64,"text":"所以在AI人才的"},{"start":10064.64,"end":10066.64,"text":"培訓上實際上"},{"start":10066.64,"end":10068.64,"text":"我們跟教育部跟國科會"},{"start":10068.64,"end":10070.64,"text":"會有分工來進行"},{"start":10070.64,"end":10072.64,"text":"中央研究院這裡扮演的"},{"start":10072.64,"end":10074.64,"text":"一個重要的角色可能就是"},{"start":10074.64,"end":10076.64,"text":"高階的研究人才的"},{"start":10076.64,"end":10078.64,"text":"培訓的部分"},{"start":10078.64,"end":10080.64,"text":"但是我不否認我覺得在"},{"start":10080.64,"end":10082.64,"text":"中小學"},{"start":10082.64,"end":10084.64,"text":"的這一個部分的AI人才"},{"start":10084.64,"end":10086.64,"text":"的訓練AI的訓練"},{"start":10086.64,"end":10088.64,"text":"也是很重要的"},{"start":10088.64,"end":10090.64,"text":"導入讓大家有一個基本的"},{"start":10090.64,"end":10092.64,"text":"共識然後中階"},{"start":10092.64,"end":10094.64,"text":"高階的人才怎麼樣分工"},{"start":10094.64,"end":10096.64,"text":"來培育對AI的適能因為AI"},{"start":10096.64,"end":10098.64,"text":"有些時候提供的資訊"},{"start":10098.64,"end":10100.64,"text":"不是很正確"},{"start":10100.64,"end":10102.64,"text":"像在北歐的很多的國家他們"},{"start":10102.64,"end":10104.64,"text":"也在讓小學生"},{"start":10104.64,"end":10106.64,"text":"知道AI應用的時候"},{"start":10106.64,"end":10108.64,"text":"應該要注意的哪一些"},{"start":10108.64,"end":10110.64,"text":"的方面這是一個全國性的"},{"start":10110.64,"end":10112.64,"text":"AI人才"},{"start":10112.64,"end":10114.64,"text":"訓練的需求"},{"start":10114.64,"end":10116.64,"text":"所以本席剛有特別聽到"},{"start":10116.64,"end":10118.64,"text":"是說未來在今年年底裡面"},{"start":10118.64,"end":10120.64,"text":"有可能會針對中研院"},{"start":10120.64,"end":10122.64,"text":"針對AI政策的部分提出一個具體"},{"start":10122.64,"end":10124.64,"text":"的白皮書是不是我們實際上"},{"start":10124.64,"end":10126.64,"text":"在AI政策白皮書"},{"start":10126.64,"end":10128.64,"text":"已經有在我們"},{"start":10128.64,"end":10130.64,"text":"李健良首長"},{"start":10130.64,"end":10132.64,"text":"也是我們新的專業院"},{"start":10132.64,"end":10134.64,"text":"院士的這樣的推動下"},{"start":10134.64,"end":10136.64,"text":"已經有在進行"},{"start":10137.79,"end":10139.79,"text":"剛才講的這個建議書"},{"start":10139.79,"end":10141.79,"text":"政策建議書通常"},{"start":10141.79,"end":10143.79,"text":"都是需要經過"},{"start":10143.79,"end":10145.79,"text":"政策建議書的委員會通過"},{"start":10145.79,"end":10147.79,"text":"然後召集相關的"},{"start":10147.79,"end":10149.79,"text":"院士還有學者專家來討論"},{"start":10149.79,"end":10151.79,"text":"討論完了成立的這個建議書"},{"start":10151.79,"end":10153.79,"text":"還需要所有的院士們"},{"start":10153.79,"end":10155.79,"text":"才有一個共識所以大概需要"},{"start":10155.79,"end":10157.79,"text":"有一年多的時間但是"},{"start":10157.79,"end":10159.79,"text":"政策"},{"start":10159.79,"end":10161.79,"text":"白皮書是"},{"start":10161.79,"end":10163.79,"text":"比較年底就可以出來"},{"start":10163.79,"end":10165.79,"text":"所以這是給未來政府的一個"},{"start":10165.79,"end":10167.79,"text":"政策方向的建議"},{"start":10167.79,"end":10169.79,"text":"他們有一群很好的學者"},{"start":10169.79,"end":10171.79,"text":"大家共同在研議的"},{"start":10171.79,"end":10173.79,"text":"還有一個有關於"},{"start":10173.79,"end":10175.79,"text":"研究相關資料的"},{"start":10175.79,"end":10177.79,"text":"公開資料的相關的"},{"start":10177.79,"end":10179.79,"text":"白皮書在進行"},{"start":10179.79,"end":10181.79,"text":"院長知不知道我們最近一次"},{"start":10181.79,"end":10183.79,"text":"當然世界各國很多不同的排名"},{"start":10183.79,"end":10185.79,"text":"但最近一次政府我們"},{"start":10185.79,"end":10187.79,"text":"國家政府運用AI的"},{"start":10187.79,"end":10189.79,"text":"這個導入運用我們在排在第幾名"},{"start":10191.03,"end":10195.03,"text":"我所知道的話我們網路自由的排名"},{"start":10195.03,"end":10197.03,"text":"在世界上算是相當好的"},{"start":10197.03,"end":10199.03,"text":"我講的是AI的"},{"start":10199.03,"end":10201.03,"text":"政府治理的部分"},{"start":10201.03,"end"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nation"},{"start":10260.37,"end":10262.37,"text":"Singapore"},{"start":10262.37,"end":10264.37,"text":"因為新加坡是S開頭嘛"},{"start":10264.37,"end":10266.37,"text":"他們就把自己定位為是smart nation"},{"start":10266.37,"end":10268.37,"text":"聰明的國家"},{"start":10268.37,"end":10270.37,"text":"或者是智慧的國家"},{"start":10270.37,"end":10272.37,"text":"本席也期待"},{"start":10272.37,"end":10274.37,"text":"因為我回來之後其實我剛看到"},{"start":10274.37,"end":10276.37,"text":"那個畫面我是很衝擊"},{"start":10276.37,"end":10278.37,"text":"當一個國家自己能夠把自己定位"},{"start":10278.37,"end":10280.37,"text":"我是smart nation的時候代表他們"},{"start":10280.37,"end":10282.37,"text":"的自信以及他們的方向"},{"start":10282.37,"end":10284.37,"text":"還有就是說希望AI"},{"start":10284.37,"end":10286.37,"text":"導入是真的能夠讓政府"},{"start":10286.37,"end":10288.37,"text":"政策溝通"},{"start":10288.37,"end":10290.37,"text":"治理方面以及人民的"},{"start":10290.37,"end":10292.37,"text":"生活有更明顯的提升"},{"start":10292.37,"end":10294.37,"text":"所以我們當然期待就是說中研院"},{"start":10294.37,"end":10296.37,"text":"有相關的上位的建議"},{"start":10296.37,"end":10298.37,"text":"出來也可以讓我們國家往"},{"start":10298.37,"end":10300.37,"text":"這樣的一個方向邁進"},{"start":10300.37,"end":10302.37,"text":"我期待那如果說有這個公布"},{"start":10302.37,"end":10304.37,"text":"這個白皮書的時候是不是也可以給"},{"start":10304.37,"end":10306.37,"text":"本席辦公室然後我們一起"},{"start":10306.37,"end":10308.37,"text":"再繼續努力好嗎"},{"start":10308.37,"end":10310.37,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":10310,"end":10312,"text":"謝謝侯孟凱委員的質詢"},{"start":10312,"end":10314,"text":"請院長回座"},{"start":10314.82,"end":10316.82,"text":"下一位有請"},{"start":10316.95,"end":10318.95,"text":"許中信委員進行詢答"},{"start":10325.13,"end":10327.13,"text":"各位同仁我們有請陳院長"},{"start":10327.13,"end":10329.13,"text":"好有請院長"},{"start":10332.85,"end":10334.85,"text":"院長好"},{"start":10334.99,"end":10336.99,"text":"我們今天台灣在"},{"start":10336.99,"end":10338.99,"text":"AI技術相關研發的落後"},{"start":10340.66,"end":10342.66,"text":"非常非常非常仰賴中央研究院"},{"start":10344.59,"end":10346.59,"text":"我們必須Catch up"},{"start":10346.6,"end":10348.6,"text":"為什麼呢"},{"start":10349.15,"end":10351.15,"text":"院長一定會覺得說我當一個陳大教授"},{"start":10352.64,"end":10354.64,"text":"為什麼要來這裡咆哮一堂"},{"start":10356.96,"end":10358.96,"text":"上司我當一個學者的風雅"},{"start":10363.49,"end":10365.49,"text":"AI這個技術"},{"start":10366.06,"end":10368.06,"text":"在"},{"start":10367.05,"end":10369.05,"text":"二次大戰以後"},{"start":10369.06,"end":10371.06,"text":"每日的專家"},{"start":10370.98,"end":10372.98,"text":"已經發現它有軍事用途"},{"start":10374.14,"end":10376.14,"text":"所以"},{"start":10375.56,"end":10377.56,"text":"我從1970年代以後的資料"},{"start":10377.56,"end":10379.56,"text":"就看不到美方的研究"},{"start":10381.26,"end":10383.26,"text":"那日本的福吉祠"},{"start":10383.25,"end":10385.25,"text":"繼續用商用的研究"},{"start":10385.25,"end":10387.25,"text":"所以我查到都是日文"},{"start":10387.64,"end":10389.64,"text":"所以我在2018年之前"},{"start":10390.49,"end":10392.49,"text":"到日本去做這方面的了解"},{"start":10393.97,"end":10395.97,"text":"那麼我回來也在民視講了一個節目"},{"start":10398.02,"end":10400.02,"text":"說這個東西"},{"start":10399.96,"end":10401.96,"text":"有很重要的商業價值"},{"start":10402.98,"end":10404.98,"text":"日本福吉祠"},{"start":10404.98,"end":10406.98,"text":"他的研究這麼的先進"},{"start":10407.48,"end":10409.48,"text":"而台灣在做AI的眼睛"},{"start":10409.48,"end":10411.48,"text":"手臂各方面"},{"start":10411.48,"end":10413.48,"text":"大腦以外非常的有比較利益"},{"start":10415.08,"end":10417.08,"text":"所以如果當時台日合作"},{"start":10418.05,"end":10420.05,"text":"現在AI產品的市場會是台灣跟日本"},{"start":10421.86,"end":10423.86,"text":"所主導"},{"start":10422.98,"end":10424.98,"text":"不會是像現在這樣"},{"start":10425.27,"end":10427.27,"text":"但是我身為一個學者"},{"start":10427.55,"end":10429.55,"text":"阿公的人沒要插我"},{"start":10429.84,"end":10431.84,"text":"所以我才會回到立法院來"},{"start":10432.86,"end":10434.86,"text":"我那時候去日本"},{"start":10434.86,"end":10436.86,"text":"因為他們東京奧運2020年"},{"start":10438.25,"end":10440.25,"text":"為了要引導觀光客"},{"start":10441.66,"end":10443.66,"text":"在東京火車站"},{"start":10443.77,"end":10445.77,"text":"設置了好幾個"},{"start":10445.77,"end":10447.77,"text":"會講外文的人工知識人機器人"},{"start":10449.47,"end":10451.47,"text":"我用英文跟他試"},{"start":10452.84,"end":10454.84,"text":"奧運入了去"},{"start":10454.84,"end":10456.84,"text":"他用英文跟我回答"},{"start":10456.93,"end":10458.93,"text":"我用日語跟他問"},{"start":10459.16,"end":10461.16,"text":"他用很標準的日語跟我回答"},{"start":10461.94,"end":10463.94,"text":"我用日語跟他問"},{"start":10465.38,"end":10467.38,"text":"他用台語跟我回答"},{"start":10467.53,"end":10469.53,"text":"我說喔!"},{"start":10469.26,"end":10471.26,"text":"這個東西真的有商業市場"},{"start":10471.91,"end":10473.91,"text":"所以我那個晚上住在品川新加坡的Hotel"},{"start":10476.44,"end":10478.44,"text":"他那個櫃檯就用人工機器人"},{"start":10479.59,"end":10481.59,"text":"你把這瓶蜜露"},{"start":10481.89,"end":10483.89,"text":"送到第九樓某一個客人那邊"},{"start":10486.12,"end":10488.12,"text":"這個人工機器人就"},{"start":10488.12,"end":10490.12,"text":"頭上就頂著"},{"start":10490.12,"end":10492.12,"text":"那瓶啤酒出去還會叫電梯"},{"start":10493.97,"end":10495.97,"text":"電梯叫下來以後進去"},{"start":10496.35,"end":10498.35,"text":"還會叫到第九樓"},{"start":10498.47,"end":10500.47,"text":"出來還知道要向右轉"},{"start":10500.94,"end":10502.94,"text":"然後去到房間門口"},{"start":10502.94,"end":10504.94,"text":"跟那個顧客講"},{"start":10505.01,"end":10506.01,"text":"啊!"},{"start":10506.01,"end":10507.01,"text":"客人!"},{"start":10507.32,"end":10509.32,"text":"別亂!"},{"start":10510.03,"end":10512.03,"text":"各位這個是2018年之前就已經有了技術"},{"start":10514.59,"end":10516.59,"text":"所以我們台灣Aizer"},{"start":10518.07,"end":10520.07,"text":"從2022年開始"},{"start":10520.53,"end":10522.53,"text":"Aizer"},{"start":10522.07,"end":10524.07,"text":"大概2022年才開始"},{"start":10524.48,"end":10526.48,"text":"我們台灣在這裡落後"},{"start":10526.76,"end":10528.76,"text":"中國從2000年以後派了10萬留學生"},{"start":10530.94,"end":10532.94,"text":"到美國加州矽谷等去學習這方面的技術"},{"start":10536.11,"end":10538.11,"text":"所以他們把這10萬人叫做海龜"},{"start":10541.05,"end":10543.05,"text":"不是那個真的海山的海龜"},{"start":10544.27,"end":10546.27,"text":"而是海外龜國華人"},{"start":10547.7,"end":10549.7,"text":"你只要回來中國"},{"start":10550.53,"end":10552.53,"text":"你的貸款政府大力協助"},{"start":10552.53,"end":10554.53,"text":"讓你去發展無人"},{"start":10555.97,"end":10557.97,"text":"無人機無人駕的汽車等等"},{"start":10559.28,"end":10561.28,"text":"所以他的技術現在是起來"},{"start":10561.5,"end":10563.5,"text":"他的技術是美系"},{"start":10565.11,"end":10567.11,"text":"所以我們現在迫切需要Ketchup"},{"start":10568.84,"end":10570.84,"text":"所以我看到您今天的報告"},{"start":10570.84,"end":10572.84,"text":"裡面23 24頁"},{"start":10572.84,"end":10574.84,"text":"有生成式Generative 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恭喜院長"},{"start":11210.62,"end":11212.62,"text":"今天是院長第一次來"},{"start":11212.62,"end":11214.62,"text":"想跟院長請教幾個問題"},{"start":11214.62,"end":11216.62,"text":"第一個 其實院長"},{"start":11216.62,"end":11218.62,"text":"之前在當副總統的時候"},{"start":11218.62,"end":11220.62,"text":"主要是在推年金改革"},{"start":11220.62,"end":11222.62,"text":"我記得你那時候為了要"},{"start":11222.62,"end":11224.62,"text":"告訴大家說其實你也會受到影響"},{"start":11224.62,"end":11226.62,"text":"你當時說"},{"start":11226.62,"end":11228.62,"text":"如果你退休之後你的是十萬塊"},{"start":11228.62,"end":11230.62,"text":"但是如果改革之後你每個月"},{"start":11230.62,"end":11232.62,"text":"六萬三 省吃儉用是夠的"},{"start":11232.62,"end":11234.62,"text":"以身作則"},{"start":11234.62,"end":11236.62,"text":"其實不是大家受影響"},{"start":11236.62,"end":11238.62,"text":"你也有受影響"},{"start":11238.62,"end":11240.62,"text":"但實際上你完全沒受到影響"},{"start":11240.62,"end":11242.62,"text":"為什麼呢 因為你"},{"start":11242.62,"end":11244.62,"text":"從2017到現在"},{"start":11244.62,"end":11246.62,"text":"2026你都沒退休"},{"start":11246.62,"end":11248.62,"text":"你是2020"},{"start":11248.62,"end":11250.62,"text":"卸下副總統的職務"},{"start":11250.62,"end":11252.62,"text":"然後沒多久"},{"start":11252.62,"end":11254.62,"text":"應該是立刻就接了中研院的"},{"start":11254.62,"end":11256.62,"text":"特聘研究員 當時月薪"},{"start":11256.62,"end":11258.62,"text":"也是49萬"},{"start":11258.62,"end":11260.62,"text":"再來就是"},{"start":11260.62,"end":11262.62,"text":"特聘研究員做到2023"},{"start":11262.62,"end":11264.62,"text":"當院長"},{"start":11264.62,"end":11266.62,"text":"當行政院長"},{"start":11266.62,"end":11268.62,"text":"你那時候可能就是"},{"start":11268.62,"end":11270.62,"text":"我不知道你有做個承諾嗎"},{"start":11270.62,"end":11272.62,"text":"因為你可能要告訴大家說其實你也沒有那麼喜歡當官"},{"start":11272.62,"end":11274.62,"text":"你這個行政院長就是"},{"start":11274.62,"end":11276.62,"text":"你的最後的公職"},{"start":11276.62,"end":11278.62,"text":"但是沒有想到行政院長下來之後"},{"start":11278.62,"end":11280.62,"text":"你又回特聘研究員"},{"start":11280.62,"end":11282.62,"text":"現在又接了中研院院長"},{"start":11282.62,"end":11284.62,"text":"其實你有打破你當時的"},{"start":11284.62,"end":11286.62,"text":"說法 我有看到你早上有回"},{"start":11286.62,"end":11288.62,"text":"你說學術工作不一樣"},{"start":11288.62,"end":11290.62,"text":"結果工作你就做特聘研究員就好了"},{"start":11290.62,"end":11292.62,"text":"為什麼一定要做院長"},{"start":11292.62,"end":11294.62,"text":"不一樣"},{"start":11294.62,"end":11296.62,"text":"你如果不是做行政職公職的話你不用來這裡"},{"start":11296.62,"end":11298.62,"text":"我們不會去質詢特聘研究員"},{"start":11298.62,"end":11300.62,"text":"所以還是不一樣"},{"start":11300.62,"end":11302.62,"text":"院長的工作是"},{"start":11302.62,"end":11304.62,"text":"同仁推薦提名"},{"start":11304.62,"end":11306.62,"text":"然後林仙委員會"},{"start":11306.62,"end":11308.62,"text":"審查 然後再經由"},{"start":11308.62,"end":11310.62,"text":"這個我們的評議會"},{"start":11310.62,"end":11312.62,"text":"當然有程序"},{"start":11312.62,"end":11314.62,"text":"怎麼可能是從天而降"},{"start":11314.62,"end":11316.62,"text":"我的意思是說你個人的意願"},{"start":11316.62,"end":11318.62,"text":"因為那個時候行政院長的時候"},{"start":11318.62,"end":11320.62,"text":"就說那是你最後的公職"},{"start":11320.62,"end":11322.62,"text":"以往的院長都是從特聘研究員"},{"start":11322.62,"end":11324.62,"text":"都是從院士當中選的"},{"start":11324.62,"end":11326.62,"text":"這兩回事 別的特聘研究員沒有說"},{"start":11326.62,"end":11328.62,"text":"沒有說他的前一個是他的最後公職"},{"start":11328.62,"end":11330.62,"text":"但你有這樣的承諾嗎"},{"start":11330.62,"end":11332.62,"text":"可能是因為你做過副總統這麼高的位置"},{"start":11332.62,"end":11334.62,"text":"再去接行政院長"},{"start":11334.62,"end":11336.62,"text":"也許你覺得要跟社會大眾"},{"start":11336.62,"end":11338.62,"text":"一個承諾這個是我最後一個公職"},{"start":11338.62,"end":11340.62,"text":"可是下來之後你又接了中研院院長"},{"start":11340.62,"end":11342.62,"text":"我覺得這就是"},{"start":11342.62,"end":11344.62,"text":"有打破承諾了 我也有聽你早上"},{"start":11344.62,"end":11346.62,"text":"回答其他委員"},{"start":11346.62,"end":11348.62,"text":"我現在就領接中研院院長"},{"start":11348.62,"end":11350.62,"text":"這個事情跟你請教一下"},{"start":11350.62,"end":11352.62,"text":"第一個"},{"start":11359.29,"end":11363.29,"text":"因為院長你現在是75歲了嘛"},{"start":11363.29,"end":11365.29,"text":"那我們都知道中研院院長"},{"start":11365.29,"end":11367.29,"text":"是可以做5年"},{"start":11367.29,"end":11369.29,"text":"所以你卸任大概是80歲"},{"start":11369.29,"end":11371.29,"text":"那中研院院長可以再任一次"},{"start":11371.29,"end":11373.29,"text":"所以再接一次就是"},{"start":11373.29,"end":11375.29,"text":"可能會到85歲卸任"},{"start":11375.29,"end":11377.29,"text":"您目前是"},{"start":11377.29,"end":11379.29,"text":"應該是做得好就繼續連任"},{"start":11379.29,"end":11381.29,"text":"這個我是"},{"start":11381.29,"end":11383.29,"text":"天主主啦"},{"start":11383.29,"end":11385.29,"text":"天主的安排"},{"start":11385.29,"end":11387.29,"text":"才是我最後的一歸啦"},{"start":11387.29,"end":11389.29,"text":"不是這個說什麼相關"},{"start":11389.29,"end":11391.29,"text":"我是問說"},{"start":11391.29,"end":11393.29,"text":"你做到這一任到80歲嘛"},{"start":11393.29,"end":11395.29,"text":"我現在的安排就是做到80歲"},{"start":11395.29,"end":11397.29,"text":"所以到時候沒有考慮要連任是不是"},{"start":11397.29,"end":11399.29,"text":"連不連任我就講話"},{"start":11399.29,"end":11401.29,"text":"到時候看天主的安排"},{"start":11401.89,"end":11403.89,"text":"我說老實話"},{"start":11403.89,"end":11405.89,"text":"當任中研院院長我也是掙扎了一段時間"},{"start":11405.89,"end":11407.89,"text":"也掙扎"},{"start":11407.89,"end":11409.89,"text":"所以意思就是說你現在目前的規劃"},{"start":11409.89,"end":11411.89,"text":"只有到80啦"},{"start":11411.89,"end":11413.89,"text":"但是我到時候再看看嘛"},{"start":11413.89,"end":11415.89,"text":"如果做得好或是有人在推薦你什麼"},{"start":11415.89,"end":11417.89,"text":"你就繼續做嘛"},{"start":11417.89,"end":11419.89,"text":"我想這是假設性的問題啦"},{"start":11419.89,"end":11421.89,"text":"因為這個以前"},{"start":11421.89,"end":11423.89,"text":"中研院院長年紀最大"},{"start":11423.89,"end":11425.89,"text":"是退休是李遠哲嗎"},{"start":11425.89,"end":11427.89,"text":"不是"},{"start":11427.89,"end":11429.89,"text":"你搞錯了"},{"start":11429.89,"end":11431.89,"text":"吳大友是幾歲"},{"start":11431.81,"end":11433.81,"text":"他開始擔任的時候"},{"start":11433.81,"end":11435.81,"text":"我記得是"},{"start":11435.81,"end":11437.81,"text":"退下來的時候"},{"start":11437.81,"end":11439.81,"text":"他87還是88"},{"start":11439.81,"end":11441.81,"text":"所以那個"},{"start":11441.81,"end":11443.81,"text":"你就算85也沒有"},{"start":11443.81,"end":11445.81,"text":"超過他啦"},{"start":11445.81,"end":11447.81,"text":"我想這是假設性的問題啦"},{"start":11447.81,"end":11449.81,"text":"今天在這裡討論沒有意思"},{"start":11449.81,"end":11451.81,"text":"沒有意思沒關係"},{"start":11451.81,"end":11453.81,"text":"然後再來第二個"},{"start":11453.81,"end":11455.81,"text":"這個就不是假設性問題了"},{"start":11455.81,"end":11457.81,"text":"第二個問題是"},{"start":11457.81,"end":11459.81,"text":"因為院長您我們都期許"},{"start":11459.81,"end":11461.81,"text":"中研院院長應該要很行政中立啦"},{"start":11461.81,"end":11463.81,"text":"但因為過去您"},{"start":11463.81,"end":11465.81,"text":"政治的背景比較多啦"},{"start":11465.81,"end":11467.81,"text":"那"},{"start":11467.81,"end":11469.81,"text":"你也服選非常多次"},{"start":11469.81,"end":11471.81,"text":"在你的位置上"},{"start":11471.81,"end":11473.81,"text":"尤其是在特聘研究員的位置上"},{"start":11473.81,"end":11475.81,"text":"也有做過服選"},{"start":11475.81,"end":11477.81,"text":"那我不知道說您"},{"start":11477.81,"end":11479.81,"text":"現在當了院長"},{"start":11479.81,"end":11481.81,"text":"還會不會服選"},{"start":11481.81,"end":11483.81,"text":"因為好像我記得2022年那時候是特聘研究員嘛"},{"start":11483.81,"end":11485.81,"text":"那時候還擔任民進黨台北市長"},{"start":11485.81,"end":11487.81,"text":"候選人陳時中的主任委員"},{"start":11487.81,"end":11489.81,"text":"然後多次幫他站台"},{"start":11489.81,"end":11491.81,"text":"那時候你說按照規定"},{"start":11491.81,"end":11493.81,"text":"雖然是按照規定但是相較其他的"},{"start":11493.81,"end":11495.81,"text":"特聘研究員您的站台次數"},{"start":11495.81,"end":11497.81,"text":"跟參與政黨的活動次數"},{"start":11497.81,"end":11499.81,"text":"是明顯高於其他的特聘研究員"},{"start":11499.81,"end":11501.81,"text":"那現在又不一樣了"},{"start":11501.81,"end":11503.81,"text":"現在是中研院院長"},{"start":11503.81,"end":11505.81,"text":"就不可以了"},{"start":11505.81,"end":11507.81,"text":"絕對不會是服選嘛不會參加服選嘛"},{"start":11507.81,"end":11509.81,"text":"這是行政中立法裡面"},{"start":11509.81,"end":11511.81,"text":"就規定的很清楚"},{"start":11511.81,"end":11513.81,"text":"我做什麼角色就扮演什麼角色"},{"start":11513.81,"end":11515.81,"text":"就是一定不會參與服選"},{"start":11515.81,"end":11517.81,"text":"那對於同方政黨背書這些呢"},{"start":11519.24,"end":11523.24,"text":"我想你現在又問了很多假設性的問題"},{"start":11523.24,"end":11527.24,"text":"但是如果該遵守行政中立的我一定遵守"},{"start":11527.24,"end":11531.24,"text":"我覺得前一任廖俊志院長就蠻有風骨的"},{"start":11531.24,"end":11535.24,"text":"譬如說剛剛我看到其他委員在講能源的問題"},{"start":11535.24,"end":11537.24,"text":"行政院一直告訴大家說台灣不缺電"},{"start":11537.24,"end":11541.24,"text":"但廖俊志院長根據他的分析研究"},{"start":11541.24,"end":11543.24,"text":"其實那時候我也在這邊問他"},{"start":11543.24,"end":11547.24,"text":"他就擺明了他說2050年我們要做到靜雲探牌"},{"start":11547.24,"end":11551.24,"text":"同時間又要不缺電是非常困難的事情"},{"start":11551.24,"end":11555.24,"text":"我覺得他就有把知識份子的那種擔憂講出來"},{"start":11555.24,"end":11557.24,"text":"他的數據跟行政院的數據就不一樣"},{"start":11557.24,"end":11559.24,"text":"因為行政院總是喜歡粉飾太平"},{"start":11559.24,"end":11561.24,"text":"但中研院的研究不一樣"},{"start":11561.24,"end":11563.24,"text":"他就很大聲講出來"},{"start":11563.24,"end":11565.24,"text":"所以我們期許過程"},{"start":11565.24,"end":11567.24,"text":"我也會這樣子"},{"start":11567.24,"end":11571.24,"text":"事實到哪裡我就講到哪裡"},{"start":11571.24,"end":11573.24,"text":"絕對沒有所謂的政黨考慮"},{"start":11573.24,"end":11575.24,"text":"你放心"},{"start":11575.24,"end":11577.24,"text":"剛剛我提到年紀的問題"},{"start":11577.24,"end":11579.24,"text":"其實不是說年紀大不好"},{"start":11579.24,"end":11583.24,"text":"年紀大但是能夠奉獻社會都是好事"},{"start":11583.24,"end":11587.24,"text":"我在之前有一個提案"},{"start":11587.24,"end":11589.24,"text":"跟院長報告因為你做過行政院院長"},{"start":11589.24,"end":11591.24,"text":"跟你們報告"},{"start":11591.24,"end":11593.24,"text":"我是很關心教育"},{"start":11593.24,"end":11595.24,"text":"現在教育的現場發生教師荒的問題"},{"start":11595.24,"end":11597.24,"text":"找不到老師"},{"start":11597.24,"end":11599.24,"text":"正式老師有的考上不報到"},{"start":11599.24,"end":11601.24,"text":"以前都說有流浪老師"},{"start":11601.24,"end":11603.24,"text":"現在是代理老師找不到"},{"start":11603.24,"end":11605.24,"text":"其中一個原因"},{"start":11605.24,"end":11607.24,"text":"當然就是環境不好"},{"start":11607.24,"end":11609.24,"text":"老師不受到尊重"},{"start":11609.24,"end":11611.24,"text":"被濫述"},{"start":11611.24,"end":11613.24,"text":"有一個部分原因是業界薪資比較高"},{"start":11613.24,"end":11615.24,"text":"像是李化老師那些都比較難找"},{"start":11615.24,"end":11617.24,"text":"有很多原因"},{"start":11617.24,"end":11619.24,"text":"所以我就提一個案"},{"start":11619.24,"end":11621.24,"text":"學校因為"},{"start":11620.17,"end":11622.17,"text":"找不到人怎麼辦"},{"start":11622.17,"end":11624.17,"text":"就拜託退休老師回來幫忙"},{"start":11624.02,"end":11626.02,"text":"退休老師因為他們有受一個"},{"start":11626.02,"end":11628.02,"text":"在就業的薪資上限"},{"start":11628.02,"end":11630.02,"text":"大概不能超過最低薪資"},{"start":11630.02,"end":11632.02,"text":"所以他能夠幫忙就有限"},{"start":11632.49,"end":11634.49,"text":"所以有一些行政人員"},{"start":11634.49,"end":11636.49,"text":"跟我講這個事情我說好那我來修"},{"start":11636.49,"end":11638.49,"text":"我至少讓那些願意回來幫忙的"},{"start":11638.49,"end":11640.49,"text":"那些退休老師"},{"start":11640.49,"end":11642.49,"text":"他可以在薪資上限這可以有些彈性"},{"start":11642.49,"end":11644.49,"text":"不要受到這個限制"},{"start":11644.49,"end":11646.49,"text":"因為現在是找不到人請他們回來"},{"start":11646.49,"end":11648.49,"text":"結果就被民進黨立委"},{"start":11648.49,"end":11650.49,"text":"還有被什麼民進黨附隨組織公督盟"},{"start":11650.49,"end":11652.49,"text":"萬罵說我這是在"},{"start":11652.49,"end":11654.49,"text":"養雙薪匪毛"},{"start":11654.49,"end":11656.49,"text":"說我這個是擋了年輕人的"},{"start":11656.49,"end":11658.49,"text":"身千"},{"start":11658.49,"end":11660.49,"text":"然後公督盟講說這個就是"},{"start":11660.49,"end":11662.49,"text":"能撈就撈啊能混就混"},{"start":11662.49,"end":11664.49,"text":"我不能接受這樣的說法"},{"start":11664.49,"end":11666.49,"text":"人家是回來幫忙"},{"start":11666.49,"end":11668.49,"text":"結果你罵人家能混就混"},{"start":11668.49,"end":11670.49,"text":"請問現在校園"},{"start":11670.49,"end":11672.49,"text":"如果那麼好待的話"},{"start":11672.49,"end":11674.49,"text":"學校需要去拜託退休老師回來嗎"},{"start":11674.49,"end":11676.49,"text":"怎麼可以罵人家能混就混"},{"start":11676.49,"end":11678.49,"text":"所以只要退休老師回來"},{"start":11678.49,"end":11680.49,"text":"就是肥貓嗎"},{"start":11680.49,"end":11682.49,"text":"這個您也算是"},{"start":11682.49,"end":11684.49,"text":"您不算退休啦"},{"start":11684.49,"end":11686.49,"text":"可是你也算是離開公職再"},{"start":11686.49,"end":11688.49,"text":"換一個工作嘛"},{"start":11688.49,"end":11690.49,"text":"你可以接受我剛講的民進黨立委"},{"start":11690.49,"end":11692.49,"text":"還有附隨組織公督盟這樣亂罵嗎"},{"start":11692.49,"end":11694.49,"text":"你可以接受嗎"},{"start":11694.49,"end":11696.49,"text":"我想在學校如果"},{"start":11696.49,"end":11698.49,"text":"實質缺乏的情況下"},{"start":11698.49,"end":11700.49,"text":"有人約你回來幫忙喔"},{"start":11700.49,"end":11702.49,"text":"這是一件好事情"},{"start":11702.49,"end":11704.49,"text":"而且現在的人的健康狀況也很好"},{"start":11704.49,"end":11706.49,"text":"他的經驗教學經驗"},{"start":11706.49,"end":11708.49,"text":"也對學生的教育會有所幫助的"},{"start":11708.49,"end":11710.49,"text":"是嗎那你"},{"start":11710.49,"end":11712.49,"text":"那為什麼公督盟要說他們是能撈就撈"},{"start":11712.49,"end":11714.49,"text":"能混就混"},{"start":11714.49,"end":11716.49,"text":"可以這樣亂罵嗎"},{"start":11716.78,"end":11718.78,"text":"我們在務實解決問題"},{"start":11718.78,"end":11720.78,"text":"所以剛剛我問你年紀"},{"start":11720.78,"end":11722.78,"text":"但我沒有說不好其實你剛剛如果說你願意"},{"start":11722.78,"end":11724.78,"text":"再做一任我會說很棒"},{"start":11725.66,"end":11727.66,"text":"對大家要就事論事嘛"},{"start":11727.66,"end":11729.66,"text":"我說這是假設性問題"},{"start":11729.66,"end":11731.66,"text":"沒有沒有我說我不為難你嘛"},{"start":11731.66,"end":11733.66,"text":"因為你可能有不好說的原因"},{"start":11733.66,"end":11735.66,"text":"但我問這個問題不是要去質疑你"},{"start":11735.66,"end":11737.66,"text":"我們是要我是覺得好的人才"},{"start":11737.66,"end":11739.66,"text":"而且就像我剛講"},{"start":11739.66,"end":11741.66,"text":"他們回來是解決問題"},{"start":11741.66,"end":11743.66,"text":"居然被罵成這個樣子"},{"start":11743.66,"end":11745.66,"text":"我認為您"},{"start":11745.66,"end":11747.66,"text":"作為一個這個在公務門"},{"start":11747.66,"end":11749.66,"text":"服務很久的也應該"},{"start":11749.66,"end":11751.66,"text":"出來講講話啦然後再來問一下"},{"start":11751.66,"end":11753.66,"text":"石安啦最後那個主席再給"},{"start":11753.66,"end":11755.66,"text":"多一點時間石安的問題我"},{"start":11755.66,"end":11757.66,"text":"跟你請教一下因為我印象當中我們那時候"},{"start":11757.66,"end":11759.66,"text":"這一任立委剛就任的時候"},{"start":11759.66,"end":11761.66,"text":"剛好就發生幾起石安事件"},{"start":11761.66,"end":11763.66,"text":"蘇丹紅還有"},{"start":11763.66,"end":11765.66,"text":"西部特樓西部特樓"},{"start":11765.66,"end":11767.66,"text":"所以當時行政院長陳建仁"},{"start":11767.66,"end":11769.66,"text":"有到我們立法院做石安報告"},{"start":11769.66,"end":11771.66,"text":"那我們有機會這個"},{"start":11771.66,"end":11773.66,"text":"看到您的報告"},{"start":11773.66,"end":11775.66,"text":"那您當時就講說"},{"start":11775.66,"end":11777.66,"text":"我記得那時候石安報告"},{"start":11777.66,"end":11779.66,"text":"我總結幾個字就是"},{"start":11779.66,"end":11781.66,"text":"馬英九好爛爛蔡英文好棒棒"},{"start":11781.66,"end":11783.66,"text":"那個時候您的報告就呈現這個狀況"},{"start":11783.66,"end":11785.66,"text":"因為您提到"},{"start":11785.66,"end":11787.66,"text":"馬政府時代2008有奶粉"},{"start":11787.66,"end":11789.66,"text":"的三聚氰胺事件2011"},{"start":11789.66,"end":11791.66,"text":"有塑化劑事件2013有毒澱粉"},{"start":11791.66,"end":11793.66,"text":"20132014還有油品"},{"start":11793.66,"end":11795.66,"text":"的問題好很爛"},{"start":11796.48,"end":11798.48,"text":"的系統性問題但是在2016年"},{"start":11798.48,"end":11800.48,"text":"蔡英文積極推動石安"},{"start":11800.48,"end":11802.48,"text":"五環之後這些都變"},{"start":11802.48,"end":11804.48,"text":"石安問題都從系統性問題"},{"start":11804.48,"end":11806.48,"text":"轉為個案包括"},{"start":11806.48,"end":11808.48,"text":"西部特樓包括蘇丹紅"},{"start":11808.48,"end":11810.48,"text":"這些都是個案個案沒辦法"},{"start":11810.48,"end":11812.48,"text":"我們只能解決系統性問題"},{"start":11812.48,"end":11814.48,"text":"可是您卸任之後您是"},{"start":11814.48,"end":11816.48,"text":"2024年5月卸任"},{"start":11816.48,"end":11818.48,"text":"那最近又發生石安"},{"start":11818.48,"end":11820.48,"text":"問題又有這個"},{"start":11820.48,"end":11822.48,"text":"癌油的事情"},{"start":11822.12,"end":11824.12,"text":"那請問這次個案還是系統性問題"},{"start":11824.12,"end":11826.12,"text":"這一次因為"},{"start":11826.12,"end":11828.12,"text":"廠商延遲通報隱蔽"},{"start":11828.12,"end":11830.12,"text":"資料然後使得所有"},{"start":11830.12,"end":11832.12,"text":"的這一個油品下架"},{"start":11832.12,"end":11834.12,"text":"受到影響而且不只是"},{"start":11834.12,"end":11836.12,"text":"油品本身而且是系統性"},{"start":11836.12,"end":11838.12,"text":"問題所以它就造成了"},{"start":11838.12,"end":11840.12,"text":"不同行業都受到影響"},{"start":11840.12,"end":11842.12,"text":"所以這是一個系統性的問題對嘛"},{"start":11842.12,"end":11844.12,"text":"所以您在2024年的時候石安"},{"start":11844.12,"end":11846.12,"text":"報告"},{"start":11845.44,"end":11847.44,"text":"就有點誇大了"},{"start":11847.44,"end":11849.44,"text":"實際上石安五環就只有漏洞"},{"start":11849.44,"end":11851.44,"text":"如果沒有漏洞怎麼後面會發生系統性問題"},{"start":11851.44,"end":11853.44,"text":"西部特樓我想你很清楚"},{"start":11853.44,"end":11855.44,"text":"我沒有在講"},{"start":11855.44,"end":11857.44,"text":"就只有一個實驗室"},{"start":11857.44,"end":11859.44,"text":"我現在不是講個案"},{"start":11859.44,"end":11861.44,"text":"因為你那個時候講的意思是說"},{"start":11861.44,"end":11863.44,"text":"我們石安五環已經讓"},{"start":11863.44,"end":11865.44,"text":"石安的問題已經得到很好的"},{"start":11865.44,"end":11867.44,"text":"保護所以不會再發生系統性"},{"start":11867.44,"end":11869.44,"text":"問題了嘛那時候是蠻"},{"start":11869.44,"end":11871.44,"text":"自信的講出這樣的話"},{"start":11871.44,"end":11873.44,"text":"這一次是廠商檢驗出來"},{"start":11873.44,"end":11875.44,"text":"因為"},{"start":11875.44,"end":11877.44,"text":"我後來也看了大概2024年"},{"start":11877.44,"end":11879.44,"text":"3月的時候"},{"start":11879.44,"end":11881.44,"text":"您去參加石安匯報之後的才市"},{"start":11881.44,"end":11883.44,"text":"你就是說要加強"},{"start":11883.44,"end":11885.44,"text":"在後市場管理部分"},{"start":11885.44,"end":11887.44,"text":"後市場管理就是源頭管理之後"},{"start":11887.44,"end":11889.44,"text":"你就說也需要食品業者"},{"start":11889.44,"end":11891.44,"text":"研議自律並加強自主"},{"start":11891.44,"end":11893.44,"text":"檢驗然後"},{"start":11893.44,"end":11895.44,"text":"而且要確定原料安全性其實"},{"start":11895.44,"end":11897.44,"text":"那時候你就看到這個問題了嘛"},{"start":11897.44,"end":11899.44,"text":"看到這個問題沒辦法杜絕現在又發生"},{"start":11899.44,"end":11901.44,"text":"一樣的問題那就代表有一些"},{"start":11901.44,"end":11903.44,"text":"當然是不能都靠廠商"},{"start":11903.44,"end":11905.44,"text":"如果都靠廠商的話"},{"start":11905.44,"end":11907.44,"text":"那政府要幹嘛"},{"start":11907.44,"end":11909.44,"text":"所以中央跟地方也要有密切合作"},{"start":11909.44,"end":11911.44,"text":"我意思是說那個時候"},{"start":11911.44,"end":11913.44,"text":"就是有一點太過於自信"},{"start":11913.44,"end":11915.44,"text":"就覺得馬英就很爛蔡政府很棒"},{"start":11915.44,"end":11917.44,"text":"實際上後來賴政府也發生"},{"start":11917.44,"end":11919.44,"text":"系統性的問題嘛所以我覺得"},{"start":11919.44,"end":11921.44,"text":"政府不能夠太傲慢"},{"start":11921.44,"end":11923.44,"text":"要謙卑"},{"start":11923.44,"end":11925.44,"text":"我先問你一個問題"},{"start":11925.44,"end":11927.44,"text":"那你那時候就自得其滿"},{"start":11927.44,"end":11929.44,"text":"就馬英就很爛爛蔡政府好棒棒"},{"start":11929.44,"end":11931.44,"text":"事實是西部特羅"},{"start":11931.44,"end":11933.44,"text":"這是一個真的是個案嘛"},{"start":11933.44,"end":11935.44,"text":"可是後來又蘇丹紅嘛"},{"start":11935.44,"end":11937.44,"text":"蘇丹紅就是兩個廠商進口的時候"},{"start":11937.44,"end":11939.44,"text":"而且"},{"start":11939.01,"end":11941.01,"text":"當時是已經在"},{"start":11941.01,"end":11943.01,"text":"當時是雲林縣發現的"},{"start":11943.01,"end":11945.01,"text":"那是不是系統性問題"},{"start":11945.01,"end":11947.01,"text":"我現在講的是你的"},{"start":11947.01,"end":11949.01,"text":"食安報告"},{"start":11949.01,"end":11951.01,"text":"你當時食安報告的意思是說"},{"start":11951.01,"end":11953.01,"text":"自從蔡政府推出食安五環之後"},{"start":11953.01,"end":11955.01,"text":"那都沒有系統性問題"},{"start":11955.01,"end":11957.01,"text":"都是個案就是很自得意"},{"start":11957.01,"end":11959.01,"text":"就是我們很棒"},{"start":11959.01,"end":11961.01,"text":"但是現在又有啦所以是賴的問題"},{"start":11961.01,"end":11963.01,"text":"所以是賴的問題"},{"start":11963.01,"end":11965.01,"text":"所以系統性問題一直都存在"},{"start":11965.01,"end":11967.01,"text":"只是看他什麼時候爆發"},{"start":11967.01,"end":11969.01,"text":"那我覺得"},{"start":11969.01,"end":11971.01,"text":"所以政府要謙卑"},{"start":11971.01,"end":11973.01,"text":"那我想問院長"},{"start":11973.01,"end":11975.01,"text":"今天卓院長到現在都不願意道歉"},{"start":11975.01,"end":11977.01,"text":"他"},{"start":11977.01,"end":11979.01,"text":"他雖然有感到不好意思"},{"start":11979.01,"end":11981.01,"text":"但不是對整件事情道歉"},{"start":11981.01,"end":11983.01,"text":"他只有針對後來又發現"},{"start":11983.01,"end":11985.01,"text":"一批問題有道歉"},{"start":11985.01,"end":11987.01,"text":"一開始沒有稽查到一開始只有29批"},{"start":11987.01,"end":11989.01,"text":"後來又冒一批他對這個事情感到抱歉"},{"start":11989.01,"end":11991.01,"text":"但對整件事情包括"},{"start":11991.01,"end":11993.01,"text":"一開始的時候食藥署"},{"start":11993.01,"end":11995.01,"text":"在7月3號就選擇蓋牌"},{"start":11995.01,"end":11997.01,"text":"然後公佈第二層食品的流向"},{"start":11997.01,"end":11999.01,"text":"然後被大家罵爆之後又改口"},{"start":11999.01,"end":12001.01,"text":"隔了兩天改成說"},{"start":12001.01,"end":12003.01,"text":"20%的問題"},{"start":12003.01,"end":12005.01,"text":"有的成分以下的不用公佈"},{"start":12005.01,"end":12007.01,"text":"只有20%以上"},{"start":12007.01,"end":12009.01,"text":"後來被罵爆之後後來又改成說"},{"start":12009.01,"end":12011.01,"text":"忽然間非常開始看中這個事情"},{"start":12011.01,"end":12013.01,"text":"總統也才開始發臉書"},{"start":12013.01,"end":12015.01,"text":"對這個事情表示重視"},{"start":12015.01,"end":12017.01,"text":"卓院長一開始的蓋牌反反覆覆"},{"start":12017.01,"end":12019.01,"text":"在這段時間讓更多的國人"},{"start":12019.01,"end":12021.01,"text":"吃到了致癌物"},{"start":12021.01,"end":12023.01,"text":"然後目前為止都一直沒有告訴大家"},{"start":12023.01,"end":12025.01,"text":"到底發生原因是什麼"},{"start":12025.01,"end":12027.01,"text":"可是不道歉就是不道歉"},{"start":12027.01,"end":12029.01,"text":"我不知道你有沒有在關心立法院發生的事"},{"start":12029.01,"end":12031.01,"text":"上禮拜二"},{"start":12031.01,"end":12033.01,"text":"專報謝榮介委員問卓院長"},{"start":12033.01,"end":12035.01,"text":"說你願意道歉嗎"},{"start":12035.01,"end":12037.01,"text":"卓院長說我都已經申表遺憾了"},{"start":12037.01,"end":12039.01,"text":"我說要申請檢討不然怎麼樣"},{"start":12039.01,"end":12041.01,"text":"今天是道歉專報嗎"},{"start":12041.01,"end":12043.01,"text":"就是傲慢到不行"},{"start":12042.2,"end":12044.2,"text":"但是如果"},{"start":12044.2,"end":12046.2,"text":"2014年那個時候民進黨"},{"start":12046.2,"end":12048.2,"text":"要求江奕樺道歉下台"},{"start":12048.2,"end":12050.2,"text":"為副部長下台江奕樺在國會"},{"start":12050.2,"end":12052.2,"text":"鞠躬"},{"start":12052.2,"end":12054.2,"text":"跟大家感到抱歉我想問一下"},{"start":12054.2,"end":12056.2,"text":"院長如果今天還是你做"},{"start":12056.2,"end":12058.2,"text":"行政院長的話你會用"},{"start":12058.2,"end":12060.2,"text":"謙卑的態度道歉嗎"},{"start":12060.2,"end":12062.2,"text":"還是一樣凹到底就是說"},{"start":12062.2,"end":12064.2,"text":"我已經"},{"start":12063.34,"end":12065.34,"text":"我已經深刻反省又怎麼樣"},{"start":12066.28,"end":12068.28,"text":"我覺得你會用哪個態度"},{"start":12068.28,"end":12070.28,"text":"謙卑是我一向的做法"},{"start":12070.28,"end":12072.28,"text":"那你會道歉嗎"},{"start":12071.6,"end":12073.6,"text":"這一個是假設性的問題"},{"start":12073.6,"end":12075.6,"text":"又假設性又不會的"},{"start":12075.6,"end":12077.6,"text":"如果現在就現在如果您施行這院長的話"},{"start":12077.6,"end":12079.6,"text":"這假設性問題"},{"start":12079.6,"end":12081.6,"text":"如果你這是假如你是"},{"start":12081.6,"end":12083.6,"text":"所以這是假設性問題對不對"},{"start":12084.45,"end":12086.45,"text":"但是你說謙卑是你的態度嗎"},{"start":12086.45,"end":12088.45,"text":"對謙卑是一向是我的態度"},{"start":12088.45,"end":12090.45,"text":"現在的行政院講說他們沒有蓋牌"},{"start":12090.45,"end":12092.45,"text":"是廠商蓋牌"},{"start":12092.45,"end":12094.45,"text":"但是我們講的行政院蓋牌是指7月3號"},{"start":12094.45,"end":12096.45,"text":"他第一時間不願意公佈第二層的流向"},{"start":12096.45,"end":12098.45,"text":"那個就是我們講的蓋牌"},{"start":12099.14,"end":12101.14,"text":"到7月5號才公佈20%"},{"start":12101.14,"end":12103.14,"text":"所以這段期間大家不斷在吃那個本篇皮"},{"start":12105.41,"end":12107.41,"text":"這樣子算謙卑嗎"},{"start":12107.66,"end":12109.66,"text":"然後民進黨發言人說"},{"start":12109.66,"end":12111.66,"text":"又不是我逼你吃的跟我大聲幹嗎"},{"start":12112.15,"end":12114.15,"text":"民進黨的議員講說"},{"start":12114.31,"end":12118.31,"text":"725上街頭就是什麼在野黨利用無知的民眾"},{"start":12118.31,"end":12120.31,"text":"現在民眾希望吃的健康是無知"},{"start":12121.55,"end":12123.55,"text":"你覺得夠謙卑嗎"},{"start":12123.49,"end":12125.49,"text":"這不是假設性問題吧"},{"start":12125.97,"end":12127.97,"text":"你覺得夠謙卑嗎"},{"start":12128.79,"end":12130.79,"text":"你覺得夠謙卑嗎"},{"start":12130.41,"end":12132.4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我覺得"},{"start":12132.95,"end":12134.95,"text":"不是我們今天質詢的問題"},{"start":12134.95,"end":12136.95,"text":"我知道不是 但是因為現在國人最關心這件事情"},{"start":12136.95,"end":12138.95,"text":"然後你跟大家不一樣的地方就在於你做過行政院長"},{"start":12138.95,"end":12142.95,"text":"所以從一開始到現在才會有人問有的問題嗎"},{"start":12142.95,"end":12144.95,"text":"我覺得質詢應該問質詢的問題"},{"start":12144.95,"end":12146.95,"text":"我現在就來問這個事"},{"start":12146.95,"end":12148.95,"text":"民眾關心的"},{"start":12148.95,"end":12150.95,"text":"大家關心"},{"start":12150.95,"end":12152.95,"text":"超過9分鐘"},{"start":12152.01,"end":12154.01,"text":"好 我知道"},{"start":12154.01,"end":12156.01,"text":"但是 不好意思"},{"start":12156.01,"end":12158.01,"text":"你剛剛講說你會秉持知識分子的風骨"},{"start":12158.01,"end":12160.01,"text":"言所當言"},{"start":12160.01,"end":12162.01,"text":"但到最後有點批評執政黨你又縮回去"},{"start":12162.01,"end":12164.01,"text":"我希望"},{"start":12164.01,"end":12166.01,"text":"我希望這個"},{"start":12166.18,"end":12168.18,"text":"中研院長陳建仁"},{"start":12168.18,"end":12170.18,"text":"可以跳脫政黨"},{"start":12170.18,"end":12172.18,"text":"我一定會"},{"start":12172.18,"end":12174.18,"text":"講到該什麼就講什麼"},{"start":12174.18,"end":12176.18,"text":"我一定會 但是你不要"},{"start":12176.18,"end":12178.18,"text":"在不該質詢的題目上"},{"start":12178.18,"end":12180.18,"text":"政黨會不該質詢 你還管我要質詢什麼"},{"start":12180.18,"end":12182.18,"text":"我們院長這個太傲慢了吧"},{"start":12182.18,"end":12184.18,"text":"沒有"},{"start":12184.18,"end":12186.18,"text":"大家關心這一題嘛"},{"start":12186.18,"end":12188.18,"text":"中研院沒有"},{"start":12188.18,"end":12190.18,"text":"中研院跟什麼都有關啊"},{"start":12190.18,"end":12192.18,"text":"中研院做研究 研究就要跟事實接軌"},{"start":12192.18,"end":12194.18,"text":"所以中研院長是什麼都有關啊"},{"start":12194.18,"end":12196.18,"text":"所以沒有無限上綱啦"},{"start":12196.18,"end":12198.18,"text":"中研院學術就是要跟事實做連結啦"},{"start":12198.18,"end":12200.18,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":12200.18,"end":12202.18,"text":"好 謝謝葉原志委員的質詢"},{"start":12202.18,"end":12204.18,"text":"也請院長回座"},{"start":12205.33,"end":12207.33,"text":"今天登記質詢的委員"},{"start":12207.33,"end":12209.33,"text":"均已發言完畢"},{"start":12209.33,"end":12211.33,"text":"詢答結束"},{"start":12211.33,"end":12213.33,"text":"對於委員質詢的時候"},{"start":12213.33,"end":12215.33,"text":"要求提供了相關資料"},{"start":12215.33,"end":12217.33,"text":"或者來不及答覆的部分"},{"start":12217.33,"end":12219.33,"text":"請相關機關"},{"start":12219.33,"end":12221.33,"text":"盡速以書面答覆"},{"start":12221.33,"end":12223.33,"text":"另外呢 今天有林一景委員"},{"start":12223.33,"end":12225.33,"text":"傅坤琦委員"},{"start":12225.33,"end":12227.33,"text":"吳宗憲委員提出書面質詢"},{"start":12227.33,"end":12229.33,"text":"列入紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":12229.33,"end":12231.33,"text":"並請相關的機關"},{"start":12231.33,"end":12233.33,"text":"以書面答覆"},{"start":12233.33,"end":12235.33,"text":"好 大家辛苦了"},{"start":12235.33,"end":12237.33,"text":"報告委員會 今日議程"},{"start":12237.33,"end":12239.33,"text":"處理完畢 現在散會"},{"start":12243.62,"end":12245.62,"text":"辛苦了"},{"start":12245.62,"end":12247.62,"text":"辛苦了"},{"start":12248.9,"end":12250.9,"text":"不好意思 請今天中研院"},{"start":12250.9,"end":12252.9,"text":"有發言的長官到我們"},{"start":12252.9,"end":12254.9,"text":"入口處簽個名"},{"start":12263.21,"end":12265.21,"text":"各位學界的長輩"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}