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我先跳過去 先後面"},{"start":1745.43,"end":1746.93,"text":"請郭一群委員"},{"start":1747.49,"end":1750.99,"text":"郭一群委員不在 請林楚英委員說明提案要辭"},{"start":1753.23,"end":1754.73,"text":"兩分鐘"},{"start":1760.95,"end":1764.95,"text":"主席 各位委員 同仁 各位部會官員 大家好"},{"start":1764.95,"end":1768.95,"text":"本席今天提出的遺產及正與稅部分條文修正案"},{"start":1768.95,"end":1773.95,"text":"主要的原因是司法院憲法法庭去年宣判了"},{"start":1773.95,"end":1776.95,"text":"113年憲判第11號判決"},{"start":1776.95,"end":1782.95,"text":"明確指出現行的遺政稅法對於死亡前兩年內"},{"start":1782.95,"end":1787.95,"text":"贈予特定親屬的擬置遺產課稅責任規劃不清"},{"start":1788.45,"end":1794.45,"text":"過往甚至出現別人拿贈予 但是無辜繼承人買單的不公平現象"},{"start":1794.45,"end":1798.45,"text":"侵害了憲法保障的平等權與財產權"},{"start":1798.45,"end":1801.45,"text":"立法院必須在期限內完成修法"},{"start":1801.45,"end":1806.45,"text":"長期以來我們看到的是遺產稅在食物稽查上屢屢發生爭議"},{"start":1806.45,"end":1811.45,"text":"特別是繼承人並未拿到被繼承人申請的贈予財產"},{"start":1811.45,"end":1818.45,"text":"卻要拿自己的繼承財產甚至於個人財產去繳納其他受證親屬的遺產稅"},{"start":1818.45,"end":1821.45,"text":"違背了輸稅公平的原則"},{"start":1821.45,"end":1828.45,"text":"同時現行的法律對於配偶多年來對於家庭家計的實質經濟貢獻"},{"start":1828.45,"end":1830.45,"text":"缺少合理評價"},{"start":1830.45,"end":1832.45,"text":"在繳稅程序上"},{"start":1832.45,"end":1837.45,"text":"如分期繳納門檻或者是遺產存款繳稅等等"},{"start":1837.45,"end":1839.45,"text":"也有許多不合時宜的限制"},{"start":1839.45,"end":1842.45,"text":"需要制度性的檢討與修正"},{"start":1842.45,"end":1845.45,"text":"因此本席特別提出了修正草案"},{"start":1845.45,"end":1850.45,"text":"就是以具體的行動回憶憲判意旨與人民的期待"},{"start":1850.45,"end":1856.45,"text":"本席認同這部法律修正的核心就是以權責相符與租稅正義"},{"start":1856.45,"end":1864.45,"text":"所以說草案明確規定了你制裁遺產人的受證人應依比率來負擔納稅的義務"},{"start":1864.45,"end":1868.45,"text":"那麼本席也希望本席所提出的修正草案的方向"},{"start":1868.45,"end":1871.45,"text":"雖然部分文字與正院版不相同"},{"start":1871.45,"end":1873.45,"text":"但是精神是一致的"},{"start":1873.45,"end":1876.45,"text":"那希望院內的所有同仁能夠予以支持"},{"start":1876.45,"end":1877.45,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1878.39,"end":1880.39,"text":"謝謝您所應委員說明提案要旨"},{"start":1880.39,"end":1882.39,"text":"請王美慧委員"},{"start":1882.39,"end":1883.39,"text":"王美慧委員"},{"start":1883.39,"end":1884.39,"text":"王美慧委員不在"},{"start":1884.39,"end":1886.39,"text":"請李坤誠委員"},{"start":1886.39,"end":1887.39,"text":"李坤誠委員"},{"start":1887.39,"end":1888.39,"text":"李坤誠委員不在"},{"start":1888.39,"end":1889.39,"text":"請郭國文委員"},{"start":1889.39,"end":1890.39,"text":"郭國文委員"},{"start":1890.39,"end":1891.39,"text":"郭國文委員不在"},{"start":1891.39,"end":1892.39,"text":"請賴慧媛委員"},{"start":1892.39,"end":1893.39,"text":"賴慧媛委員"},{"start":1893.39,"end":1894.39,"text":"賴慧媛委員不在"},{"start":1894.39,"end":1896.39,"text":"請王宏威委員"},{"start":1896.39,"end":1897.39,"text":"王宏威委員"},{"start":1897.39,"end":1898.39,"text":"王宏威委員不在"},{"start":1898.39,"end":1899.39,"text":"請林思明委員"},{"start":1899.39,"end":1900.39,"text":"林思明委員"},{"start":1900.39,"end":1901.39,"text":"林思明委員不在"},{"start":1901.39,"end":1904.39,"text":"請張志文委員說明提案要旨"},{"start":1907.31,"end":1908.31,"text":"兩分鐘"},{"start":1919.8,"end":1921.8,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位委員"},{"start":1921.8,"end":1922.8,"text":"各位練習官員大家早"},{"start":1922.8,"end":1926.8,"text":"那今天有關遺產證與稅的修法"},{"start":1926.8,"end":1929.8,"text":"就是針對解決兩件問題"},{"start":1929.8,"end":1932.8,"text":"第一個 取得財產的人不一定繳稅"},{"start":1932.8,"end":1935.8,"text":"或是取得一筆財產的時候"},{"start":1935.8,"end":1937.8,"text":"課稅 遺產 計算遺產"},{"start":1937.8,"end":1941.8,"text":"或是配偶 計算這個配偶扣除我的時候"},{"start":1941.8,"end":1945.8,"text":"卻不計算遺產等等的制度的一個矛盾"},{"start":1945.8,"end":1947.8,"text":"所以本席今天提出"},{"start":1947.8,"end":1949.8,"text":"遺產證與稅法第15條"},{"start":1949.8,"end":1952.8,"text":"跟第17條之一的修正案"},{"start":1952.8,"end":1954.8,"text":"那修法的重點有兩個"},{"start":1954.8,"end":1957.8,"text":"第一個 如果受證人不是繼承人"},{"start":1957.8,"end":1963.8,"text":"也應該負擔受證財產所增加的遺產稅"},{"start":1963.8,"end":1965.8,"text":"第二個 受證人如果是配偶"},{"start":1965.8,"end":1970.8,"text":"那他這筆這個兩年內被視為遺產的財產"},{"start":1970.8,"end":1975.8,"text":"應該也要能主張夫妻設於財產分配請求權"},{"start":1975.8,"end":1976.8,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":1976.8,"end":1981.8,"text":"不管過去從113年的新聞有一個例子"},{"start":1981.8,"end":1985.8,"text":"就是陳姓男子名下的財產股票"},{"start":1985.8,"end":1988.8,"text":"贈送給他的妻子"},{"start":1988.8,"end":1993.8,"text":"然後在當年被認定是免課遺產稅"},{"start":1993.8,"end":1995.8,"text":"那當陳姓男子過世的時候"},{"start":1995.8,"end":1997.8,"text":"當時他的"},{"start":1998.28,"end":2001.28,"text":"太太跟子女都拋棄繼承"},{"start":2001.28,"end":2002.28,"text":"他六歲的失真子"},{"start":2002.28,"end":2006.28,"text":"繼承的財產是1567萬"},{"start":2006.28,"end":2010.28,"text":"可是當時卻要繳5735萬的遺產稅"},{"start":2010.28,"end":2012.28,"text":"相當的不合理"},{"start":2012.28,"end":2014.28,"text":"以及我們當時有看到其他"},{"start":2014.28,"end":2016.28,"text":"在105年有一個案例"},{"start":2016.28,"end":2020.28,"text":"也被憲法法官判為是有點有事違憲的"},{"start":2020.28,"end":2025.28,"text":"比如說在當這個先生把名下的土地"},{"start":2025.28,"end":2027.28,"text":"贈送給妻子的時候"},{"start":2027.28,"end":2030.28,"text":"當時是可以用贈予的方式"},{"start":2030.28,"end":2034.28,"text":"來認定是贈予稅"},{"start":2034.28,"end":2037.28,"text":"可是當先生在同年死亡的時候"},{"start":2037.28,"end":2038.28,"text":"他的遺產稅"},{"start":2038.9,"end":2041.9,"text":"會把兩年內所贈予的金額當成是遺產"},{"start":2041.9,"end":2043.9,"text":"所以造成遺產大增"},{"start":2043.9,"end":2046.9,"text":"可是當時他卻不能使用"},{"start":2046.9,"end":2050.9,"text":"這個夫妻財產剩餘分配請求權的扣除"},{"start":2050.9,"end":2053.9,"text":"等於說他沒有贈予還比較好"},{"start":2053.9,"end":2055.9,"text":"贈予完了以後繳的遺產稅還比較多"},{"start":2055.9,"end":2059.9,"text":"所以這都是大法官認為違憲的部分"},{"start":2059.9,"end":2062.9,"text":"那希望今天的法令在大家的支持之下"},{"start":2062.9,"end":2064.9,"text":"有機會通過"},{"start":2064.9,"end":2066.9,"text":"也來建立更公平更清楚"},{"start":2066.9,"end":2069.9,"text":"更符合憲法要求的遺產稅制度"},{"start":2069.9,"end":2070.9,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2071.44,"end":2073.44,"text":"謝謝張志榮委員的提案說明"},{"start":2074.66,"end":2076.66,"text":"再來請李彥秀委員"},{"start":2076.66,"end":2078.66,"text":"李彥秀委員不在"},{"start":2079.22,"end":2082.22,"text":"下一位請賴氏保委員做提案說明"},{"start":2082.84,"end":2083.84,"text":"兩分鐘"},{"start":2083.84,"end":2084.84,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2087.23,"end":2088.23,"text":"這位說沒關係"},{"start":2095.87,"end":2097.87,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位親戚"},{"start":2097.87,"end":2099.87,"text":"我這裡兩個案子"},{"start":2099.87,"end":2103.87,"text":"一個是土地稅跟房屋稅"},{"start":2103.87,"end":2105.87,"text":"我先講第二個"},{"start":2105.87,"end":2109.87,"text":"就是有關於行政院修法提出來"},{"start":2109.87,"end":2114.87,"text":"要授權地方政府對住宅法第四條規定"},{"start":2114.87,"end":2119.87,"text":"新婚兩年內沒有小孩子的家庭持有的"},{"start":2119.87,"end":2123.87,"text":"全國單一自住的房屋"},{"start":2123.87,"end":2127.87,"text":"屋根土地適當的減免房屋及地價稅"},{"start":2127.87,"end":2131.87,"text":"他提到的說大概100萬富以上"},{"start":2131.87,"end":2135.87,"text":"而且稅損50億到75億"},{"start":2135.87,"end":2138.87,"text":"這到底的是中央立法地方買單"},{"start":2138.87,"end":2143.87,"text":"這個詞舉不可取"},{"start":2143.87,"end":2144.87,"text":"部長不要這樣"},{"start":2144.87,"end":2147.87,"text":"這個東西竟然中央政策針對少子化"},{"start":2147.87,"end":2149.87,"text":"少子化這麼嚴重"},{"start":2149.87,"end":2150.87,"text":"大家都來努力"},{"start":2150.87,"end":2152.87,"text":"現在來講的話"},{"start":2152.87,"end":2155.87,"text":"我們的出生人口你看破了80萬了"},{"start":2155.87,"end":2156.87,"text":"不到80萬了"},{"start":2156.87,"end":2158.87,"text":"過去呢這個"},{"start":2160.15,"end":2162.15,"text":"這個是40萬"},{"start":2163.59,"end":2164.59,"text":"40萬以上的"},{"start":2164.59,"end":2166.59,"text":"所以這個差很多"},{"start":2166.59,"end":2168.59,"text":"現在來講就是等於說"},{"start":2168.59,"end":2171.59,"text":"這個情況這麼的一個嚴重"},{"start":2171.59,"end":2173.59,"text":"所以我認為應該"},{"start":2173.59,"end":2174.59,"text":"居然居然中央"},{"start":2174.59,"end":2177.59,"text":"這一部分的稅損中央來負責"},{"start":2177.59,"end":2179.59,"text":"不要再加給地方了"},{"start":2179.59,"end":2181.59,"text":"你這個這裡七折八扣"},{"start":2181.59,"end":2185.59,"text":"另外我的提案是把兩年改前三年了"},{"start":2185.59,"end":2189.59,"text":"這是有關於土地跟這個房屋稅這一部分的"},{"start":2191.27,"end":2195.27,"text":"另外要跟數字稍微的修正一下"},{"start":2195.27,"end":2198.27,"text":"這個現在來講是出生人口不到8萬"},{"start":2198.27,"end":2200.27,"text":"不是80萬不到8萬"},{"start":2200.27,"end":2204.27,"text":"過去每年是40萬"},{"start":2204.27,"end":2206.27,"text":"那麼有關於這個移政稅"},{"start":2206.27,"end":2209.27,"text":"我是修30條跟41條"},{"start":2209.27,"end":2211.27,"text":"30條就明定了"},{"start":2211.27,"end":2214.27,"text":"遺產稅或者是這個正義稅"},{"start":2215.38,"end":2219.38,"text":"那麼無論因納的稅額在30萬元以上"},{"start":2219.38,"end":2221.38,"text":"是不是有30萬元"},{"start":2221.38,"end":2224.38,"text":"因為現有的法律是要30萬元"},{"start":2224.38,"end":2228.38,"text":"才能夠這個設定抵押權"},{"start":2228.38,"end":2231.38,"text":"給這個濟政機關辦理分析繳納"},{"start":2231.38,"end":2235.38,"text":"我把30萬元的這個限制把他門檻拿掉"},{"start":2235.38,"end":2237.38,"text":"另外41條呢"},{"start":2237.38,"end":2239.38,"text":"就提出來"},{"start":2239.38,"end":2241.38,"text":"因稅的不動產設定抵押權"},{"start":2241.38,"end":2244.38,"text":"給稅政機關同意以後"},{"start":2244.38,"end":2246.38,"text":"可以申請主管稅政機關"},{"start":2246.38,"end":2249.38,"text":"合法同意轉移證書"},{"start":2250.36,"end":2254.36,"text":"以便納稅應用人可以在繳清以前先"},{"start":2255.54,"end":2258.54,"text":"辦理這個產權的轉移登記了"},{"start":2258.54,"end":2262.54,"text":"並立即以設定抵押權的財產"},{"start":2262.54,"end":2264.54,"text":"籌措現金繳納"},{"start":2264.54,"end":2265.54,"text":"現在的一個情況就是"},{"start":2265.54,"end":2267.54,"text":"這個他有房地"},{"start":2267.54,"end":2270.54,"text":"有房子但是他沒有錢繳"},{"start":2270.54,"end":2272.54,"text":"這是一個比較大的問題"},{"start":2272.54,"end":2273.54,"text":"這是一個很嚴重的問題"},{"start":2273.54,"end":2276.54,"text":"就是這個孩子從爸爸父母"},{"start":2277.68,"end":2280.68,"text":"這個遺傳道裡面有房子"},{"start":2281.53,"end":2283.53,"text":"要交稅可是沒有錢交"},{"start":2283.53,"end":2286.53,"text":"那你可以不可以讓他先過戶"},{"start":2286.53,"end":2288.53,"text":"然後他來以後去賣去交這個稅"},{"start":2288.53,"end":2290.53,"text":"否則的話卡在那裡"},{"start":2290.53,"end":2293.53,"text":"又去把他拍賣也是這個不好的"},{"start":2293.53,"end":2295.53,"text":"我想簡單的兩個提案"},{"start":2295.53,"end":2297.53,"text":"請各位能夠支持"},{"start":2298.15,"end":2300.15,"text":"一 個 例 啊 謝謝"},{"start":2300.6,"end":2303.6,"text":"謝謝賴志寶委員所做的提案要子說明"},{"start":2303.6,"end":2305.6,"text":"再來請馬文君委員"},{"start":2305.6,"end":2306.6,"text":"馬文君委員"},{"start":2306.6,"end":2308.6,"text":"馬文君委員不在請傅崑琪委員"},{"start":2308.6,"end":2309.6,"text":"傅崑琪委員"},{"start":2309.6,"end":2313.6,"text":"傅崑琪委員不在請林憲琪委員做提案說明"},{"start":2313.6,"end":2314.6,"text":"兩分鐘謝謝"},{"start":2321.78,"end":2323.78,"text":"主席 福會同仁大家好"},{"start":2323.78,"end":2328.78,"text":"那本席今天一併提出這個房屋稅條例及土地稅法"},{"start":2328.78,"end":2330.78,"text":"相關條文修正草案"},{"start":2330.78,"end":2334.78,"text":"那整個目的就是要從房屋與土地兩個面向"},{"start":2334.78,"end":2338.78,"text":"來減輕婚育家庭的長期居住負擔"},{"start":2338.78,"end":2342.78,"text":"那也因為我國少子女化的這個問題持續惡化"},{"start":2342.78,"end":2346.78,"text":"對年輕家庭而言影響成家跟生育意願的"},{"start":2346.78,"end":2350.78,"text":"不是只有托育跟教育的支出"},{"start":2350.78,"end":2354.78,"text":"房貸 房屋稅 地價稅以及日常生活的成本"},{"start":2354.78,"end":2357.78,"text":"也都是每一年持續發生的壓力"},{"start":2357.78,"end":2361.78,"text":"因此本席這邊兩案均以符合住宅法規定的"},{"start":2361.78,"end":2367.78,"text":"新婚兩年內或育有未成年子女之婚育家庭為對象"},{"start":2367.78,"end":2372.78,"text":"若家庭成員持有符合規定的全國單一自住房屋"},{"start":2372.78,"end":2377.78,"text":"那該房這個房屋稅條例的修正的草案"},{"start":2377.78,"end":2381.78,"text":"是授權地方政府來適度減免房屋稅"},{"start":2381.78,"end":2386.78,"text":"那如果該房屋座落土地適用在自用住宅用地的稅率"},{"start":2386.78,"end":2392.78,"text":"土地稅法修正草案則授權地方政府來適度減免地價稅"},{"start":2392.78,"end":2395.78,"text":"考量房屋稅跟地價稅都是地方稅"},{"start":2395.78,"end":2398.78,"text":"那麼本案由各縣市政府 直轄市"},{"start":2398.78,"end":2402.78,"text":"依照當地人口的結構 小子女化的情形"},{"start":2402.78,"end":2405.78,"text":"婚育家庭負擔以及地方財政的能力"},{"start":2405.78,"end":2410.78,"text":"以自治條例來訂定減免期限 範圍以及基準和程序"},{"start":2410.78,"end":2413.78,"text":"我們期望運用這個租稅的工具"},{"start":2413.78,"end":2418.78,"text":"讓婚育家庭在居住支出上能夠獲得更長期穩定的一個支持"},{"start":2418.78,"end":2423.78,"text":"那也讓地方政府能夠因地制宜來提出婚育政策"},{"start":2423.78,"end":2428.78,"text":"小子女化的問題要從家庭的每一年持續負擔的居住成本來著手"},{"start":2428.78,"end":2433.78,"text":"讓青年敢承受 願意安心養育下一代"},{"start":2433.78,"end":2437.78,"text":"那麼以上兩案 敬請各位委員共同支持"},{"start":2437.78,"end":2439.78,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":2442.59,"end":2444.59,"text":"再來請政天才委員"},{"start":2444.85,"end":2447.85,"text":"政天才委員不在 現在請財政部莊部長"},{"start":2449.3,"end":2454.3,"text":"我還沒講 等一下 稍等一下 對不起 我自己忘掉了"},{"start":2454.3,"end":2457.3,"text":"那我現在就對我的提案做簡單的說明"},{"start":2457.3,"end":2459.3,"text":"這是對於這個"},{"start":2460.14,"end":2461.14,"text":"移產"},{"start":2461.74,"end":2463.74,"text":"這個課稅的這個提案"},{"start":2463.74,"end":2468.74,"text":"那就是因為113年度的憲判是第11號"},{"start":2468.74,"end":2472.74,"text":"判決現行的移產及證與稅部分條文規定抵觸憲法"},{"start":2472.74,"end":2476.74,"text":"外年保障憲法所規定的平等權及財產權的落實"},{"start":2476.74,"end":2480.74,"text":"要限期修正條文 那現在就是提出這個修正"},{"start":2480.74,"end":2483.74,"text":"那希望我們提案 大家能夠支持"},{"start":2483.74,"end":2489.74,"text":"現在請財政部莊部長說明並回應委員提案內容"},{"start":2495.24,"end":2497.24,"text":"主席 各位委員先進 大家早"},{"start":2497.24,"end":2501.24,"text":"今天 貴委員會審查大院各位委員所擬具的"},{"start":2501.24,"end":2506.24,"text":"移政稅法 土地稅法 房屋稅條例 相關條文的修正草案等28案"},{"start":2506.81,"end":2512.81,"text":"以及行政院所含情審議的土地稅法及房屋稅條例相關條文修正草案"},{"start":2512.81,"end":2514.81,"text":"以下請做簡要的報告"},{"start":2514.98,"end":2519.98,"text":"首先就是大院各位委員所擬具的移政稅法的相關條文的修正草案"},{"start":2519.98,"end":2525.98,"text":"總共12案 那提案的內容和本部所含報的行政院版本大致相同"},{"start":2525.98,"end":2530.98,"text":"憲法法庭在113年憲判自第11號的判決指出"},{"start":2530.98,"end":2533.98,"text":"移政稅法第15條第一項第一款"},{"start":2533.98,"end":2538.98,"text":"有關被繼承人死亡前兩年內證與配偶並入期遺產總額課徵"},{"start":2538.98,"end":2541.98,"text":"遺產稅的規定 就遺產稅的負擔"},{"start":2541.98,"end":2545.98,"text":"還有配偶剩餘財產差分配請求權扣除額的計算"},{"start":2545.98,"end":2547.98,"text":"欠缺明確的規範"},{"start":2547.98,"end":2550.98,"text":"應該在判決公告之期兩年內"},{"start":2550.98,"end":2553.98,"text":"以判決意旨檢討修正相關的規定"},{"start":2553.98,"end":2556.98,"text":"本部依照憲法法判決的"},{"start":2557.56,"end":2560.56,"text":"參考各界的建議還有委員的提案內容"},{"start":2560.56,"end":2563.56,"text":"擬具了移政稅法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2563.56,"end":2566.56,"text":"含報行政院我們的修正重點如下"},{"start":2566.56,"end":2567.56,"text":"第一個"},{"start":2567.56,"end":2571.56,"text":"徵訂被繼承人死亡前兩年內證與特定的親屬"},{"start":2571.56,"end":2573.56,"text":"包含了被繼承人的配偶"},{"start":2573.56,"end":2576.56,"text":"各順序的繼承人及其配偶"},{"start":2577.67,"end":2581.67,"text":"的財產要併入遺產總額課稅的遺產稅"},{"start":2581.67,"end":2585.67,"text":"而計算標準以各受證人為納稅義務人"},{"start":2585.67,"end":2589.67,"text":"並以受證財產為限負擔納稅的義務"},{"start":2589.67,"end":2594.67,"text":"第二個計算配偶剩餘財產差分配請求權的扣除數額時"},{"start":2594.67,"end":2598.67,"text":"被繼承人死亡前兩年內證與他配偶的財產"},{"start":2598.67,"end":2602.67,"text":"視為被繼承人現存財產並與計算"},{"start":2602.67,"end":2605.67,"text":"第三個是修正遺產稅納稅義務人的範圍"},{"start":2605.67,"end":2607.67,"text":"並徵訂被繼承人死亡後"},{"start":2607.67,"end":2612.67,"text":"才經過法院判決確定遺產全屬的案件的申報期間"},{"start":2612.67,"end":2615.67,"text":"及合客期間起算日的規定"},{"start":2617.19,"end":2622.19,"text":"第四個我們刪除了宜政稅因納稅額在新台幣30萬元以上"},{"start":2622.19,"end":2625.19,"text":"才可以申請分期繳納的限制規定"},{"start":2625.19,"end":2629.19,"text":"大院委員索尼的宜政稅法修正草案大多是"},{"start":2629.19,"end":2631.19,"text":"參著憲法判決的意旨"},{"start":2631.19,"end":2636.19,"text":"修正內容和散開本部函報行政院內容大致相同"},{"start":2636.19,"end":2640.19,"text":"另外部分委員提案修正宜政稅分期繳納的規定"},{"start":2640.19,"end":2645.19,"text":"也和本部刪除申請宜政稅分期繳納限制的意旨相同"},{"start":2645.19,"end":2650.19,"text":"因此建議行政院版本修正草案送大院審議後"},{"start":2650.19,"end":2652.19,"text":"並按審查"},{"start":2652.19,"end":2654.19,"text":"第二個部分就行政院含情審議"},{"start":2654.19,"end":2660.19,"text":"以及大院各委員所擬具的土地稅法及防污稅條例相關條文的"},{"start":2660.19,"end":2662.19,"text":"修正草案總共有18案"},{"start":2662.19,"end":2665.19,"text":"那麼行政院版本的修法背景主要是"},{"start":2665.19,"end":2668.19,"text":"一位因應少子女化的問題行政院推動"},{"start":2668.19,"end":2674.19,"text":"台灣人口對策新戰略家庭支持篇全方位來減輕婚育家庭的經濟負擔"},{"start":2674.19,"end":2680.19,"text":"本部基於租稅減壓的面向提出婚育家庭再減稅措施"},{"start":2680.19,"end":2687.19,"text":"因此我們的修正重點是授權地方政府對住宅法第四條規定的新婚兩年內"},{"start":2687.19,"end":2695.19,"text":"或預有未成年子女的婚育家庭成員所持有的全國單一自住房屋及其坐落土地"},{"start":2695.19,"end":2699.19,"text":"可以再適當減免房屋稅及地價稅"},{"start":2700.19,"end":2704.19,"text":"那麼預期的收益戶數大概是100萬戶以上"},{"start":2704.19,"end":2708.19,"text":"那麼減稅的利益大概是50到75億元"},{"start":2708.19,"end":2713.19,"text":"等到地方政府完成房屋稅及地價稅自治條例修法起實施"},{"start":2713.19,"end":2717.19,"text":"那麼大院各委員的版本大多數的委員提案"},{"start":2717.19,"end":2721.19,"text":"總共有12案與行政院的版本是相同的"},{"start":2721.19,"end":2728.19,"text":"至於傅崑琦委員提案對於婚育家庭成員持有的全國單一自住房屋及其坐落土地"},{"start":2728.19,"end":2732.19,"text":"應予減免或免徵房屋稅及地價稅"},{"start":2732.19,"end":2735.19,"text":"以及全額補足稅收減少"},{"start":2736.14,"end":2740.14,"text":"以及賴委員士保所提案的對新婚三年內或"},{"start":2740.14,"end":2744.14,"text":"育有未成年子女的婚育家庭居住的住家用房屋"},{"start":2745.17,"end":2749.17,"text":"以及他所坐落的住宅用地地方政府"},{"start":2749.17,"end":2753.17,"text":"應予減免房屋稅及地價稅減少稅收"},{"start":2753.17,"end":2755.17,"text":"由中央政府負擔"},{"start":2755.17,"end":2759.17,"text":"我們考量住宅法已經有婚育家庭的規定"},{"start":2759.17,"end":2766.17,"text":"基於保障婚育家庭基本生活需要以及房屋稅及地價稅是屬於地方稅"},{"start":2766.17,"end":2772.17,"text":"因此根據行政院的版本的修正草案地方政府可因地質疑"},{"start":2772.17,"end":2776.17,"text":"決定是否要減免以及減免的幅度"},{"start":2776.17,"end":2782.17,"text":"暫無中央彌補稅收損失以及統一訂定減免比率的問題"},{"start":2782.17,"end":2783.17,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":2783.17,"end":2787.17,"text":"敬請各位委員指教並建請會議支持行政院版本"},{"start":2787.17,"end":2788.17,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2795.19,"end":2797.19,"text":"內政部的報告請大家自行參閱"},{"start":2798.55,"end":2799.55,"text":"現在開始詢答"},{"start":2799.55,"end":2801.55,"text":"先做一下宣告"},{"start":2801.55,"end":2803.55,"text":"依每位住區委員發言時間8分鐘"},{"start":2803.55,"end":2805.55,"text":"必要時的延長2分鐘"},{"start":2805.55,"end":2808.55,"text":"每位列席委員發言時間4分鐘"},{"start":2809.28,"end":2811.28,"text":"今天上午10點截止發言登記"},{"start":2811.28,"end":2816.28,"text":"現役登記順序請登記第一位林德福委員諮詢"},{"start":2829.88,"end":2838.88,"text":"謝謝主席還有莊部長以及各所有官員還有各縣市的副局長"},{"start":2838.88,"end":2844.88,"text":"還有主秘以及這個副局長還有科長科座"},{"start":2846.81,"end":2848.81,"text":"首先是不是請莊部長"},{"start":2848.81,"end":2850.81,"text":"請財政部莊部長"},{"start":2856.24,"end":2857.24,"text":"委員早"},{"start":2857.36,"end":2858.36,"text":"莊部長早"},{"start":2858.59,"end":2859.59,"text":"莊部長我請教"},{"start":2859.59,"end":2861.59,"text":"因為少子化是國安問題"},{"start":2861.59,"end":2865.59,"text":"那減稅政策大家我想都贊成"},{"start":2865.59,"end":2870.59,"text":"這個我想所有的委員應該不會有人反對"},{"start":2870.59,"end":2876.59,"text":"但是房屋稅與地價稅屬於地方政府主要的財源"},{"start":2876.59,"end":2883.59,"text":"那本席認為少子化議題減稅政策不能夠中央請客"},{"start":2883.59,"end":2885.59,"text":"由地方來買單"},{"start":2886.59,"end":2894.59,"text":"本席我要請教我們今天所有由各地方的財政局的副局長"},{"start":2894.59,"end":2896.59,"text":"主秘科長"},{"start":2896.59,"end":2901.59,"text":"列席來代表我們地方政府的這些官員"},{"start":2901.59,"end":2903.59,"text":"請教你們"},{"start":2907.19,"end":2911.19,"text":"為了改善我國少子化的這些問題"},{"start":2911.19,"end":2914.19,"text":"減輕婚姻家庭經濟的負擔"},{"start":2914.19,"end":2918.19,"text":"支持房屋稅地價稅減免的稅收損失"},{"start":2918.19,"end":2921.19,"text":"那中央也應該要負擔起一部分"},{"start":2921.19,"end":2927.19,"text":"那這些中央請客地方出錢"},{"start":2927.19,"end":2930.19,"text":"請問我們所有今天的這些代表"},{"start":2930.19,"end":2931.19,"text":"你們"},{"start":2931.78,"end":2932.78,"text":"贊同嗎"},{"start":2932.78,"end":2934.78,"text":"要是不贊同的"},{"start":2934.78,"end":2937.78,"text":"這個因為中央請客地方出錢"},{"start":2937.78,"end":2938.78,"text":"對不對"},{"start":2938.78,"end":2939.78,"text":"不贊同的請舉手好不好"},{"start":2941.53,"end":2942.53,"text":"幾乎都不贊成"},{"start":2942.53,"end":2944.53,"text":"部長你有看到"},{"start":2944.53,"end":2946.53,"text":"那我請問部長"},{"start":2946.53,"end":2947.53,"text":"謝謝你們"},{"start":2947.53,"end":2951.53,"text":"此次行政院版的房屋稅條例"},{"start":2951.53,"end":2956.53,"text":"以地這個土地的這些稅法的整個修法"},{"start":2956.53,"end":2960.53,"text":"有沒有事先甄詢過地方政府的意見"},{"start":2960.53,"end":2961.53,"text":"有沒有"},{"start":2962.98,"end":2965.98,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分我們有先"},{"start":2965.98,"end":2967.98,"text":"了解地方政府的意見"},{"start":2967.98,"end":2970.98,"text":"那我想各地方政府當然他們有考量"},{"start":2970.98,"end":2971.98,"text":"不過我在這裡還是必須要"},{"start":2971.98,"end":2973.98,"text":"因為都是地方稅啊"},{"start":2973.98,"end":2974.98,"text":"是地方稅"},{"start":2974.98,"end":2975.98,"text":"你不能中央請客地方出錢啊"},{"start":2975.98,"end":2979.98,"text":"最後會要我們這裡是授權地方政府"},{"start":2979.98,"end":2981.98,"text":"他們來決定是否減免"},{"start":2981.98,"end":2984.98,"text":"那如果要減免還要經過地方自治條例去修正"},{"start":2984.98,"end":2988.98,"text":"所以必須要回到地方自治條例裡面去定"},{"start":2988.98,"end":2990.98,"text":"它是不是要減免以及減免的幅度"},{"start":2990.98,"end":2992.98,"text":"那至於稅收的部分我相信"},{"start":2992.98,"end":2994.98,"text":"其實我們整個一整年來"},{"start":2994.98,"end":2996.98,"text":"這個是二十二縣市總金額"},{"start":2996.98,"end":2998.98,"text":"但是我們以看這個"},{"start":2998.98,"end":3002.98,"text":"地價稅跟房屋稅來說是地方當然是一個裁員"},{"start":3002.98,"end":3004.98,"text":"可是以裁劃法修正以後"},{"start":3004.98,"end":3008.98,"text":"地方政府的裁員已經比過去修法"},{"start":3008.98,"end":3011.98,"text":"修裁劃法修正已經增加了至少四千多億"},{"start":3011.98,"end":3017.98,"text":"我相信地方政府為了他解決他縣市裡面的少子化"},{"start":3017.98,"end":3020.98,"text":"希望他們能夠在縣市裡面生生不息"},{"start":3020.98,"end":3024.98,"text":"有更多的人口紅利一定也會支持這樣的政策"},{"start":3024.98,"end":3027.98,"text":"以稅收來說其實是占了非常小的一個比例"},{"start":3027.98,"end":3032.98,"text":"因為中央地方的裁劃法修正以後"},{"start":3032.98,"end":3036.98,"text":"已經達到統籌分配稅款"},{"start":3036.98,"end":3039.98,"text":"一百一十五年就有八千八百多億"},{"start":3039.98,"end":3042.98,"text":"比往年增加百分之九十二點五"},{"start":3042.98,"end":3044.98,"text":"而今年的稅收狀況良好的話"},{"start":3044.98,"end":3048.98,"text":"還有第三期會就要統籌分配稅款的分配"},{"start":3048.98,"end":3052.98,"text":"所以我們希望中央地方一起聯手來做"},{"start":3052.98,"end":3056.98,"text":"少子女化人口對策一起努力來做"},{"start":3056.98,"end":3061.98,"text":"而這個稅收減少對地方政府來說其實差異是很小的"},{"start":3061.98,"end":3063.98,"text":"那個部長你不管怎麼樣"},{"start":3063.98,"end":3067.98,"text":"你一定要徵詢過我們地方所有的財政這些官員"},{"start":3067.98,"end":3071.98,"text":"然後要問他們有沒有什麼意見跟看法"},{"start":3072.98,"end":3078.98,"text":"那你不能說我中央有一個政策要這樣來要求"},{"start":3078.98,"end":3081.98,"text":"但是地方你們要來付費"},{"start":3081.98,"end":3083.98,"text":"中央請客地方付錢"},{"start":3083.98,"end":3087.98,"text":"其實你應該要徵詢過多開幾次會"},{"start":3087.98,"end":3089.98,"text":"問大家的看法意見"},{"start":3089.98,"end":3094.98,"text":"你不是說你各縣市政府大家的做法不一樣"},{"start":3094.98,"end":3096.98,"text":"我認為這是一個國家的政策"},{"start":3096.98,"end":3100.98,"text":"因為少子化的問題是國安問題"},{"start":3100.98,"end":3102.98,"text":"你不能把它完全推給地方政府"},{"start":3104.49,"end":3106.49,"text":"我相信我們是尊重地方政府"},{"start":3106.49,"end":3108.49,"text":"事前也有徵詢過地方政府"},{"start":3108.49,"end":3110.49,"text":"那你們有沒有開過會"},{"start":3110.49,"end":3112.49,"text":"第一個我們是用"},{"start":3112.49,"end":3114.49,"text":"我想附稅署有徵詢過意見"},{"start":3114.49,"end":3115.49,"text":"那當然地方政府"},{"start":3115.49,"end":3116.49,"text":"有徵詢過"},{"start":3116.49,"end":3118.49,"text":"所以我們是並不一致"},{"start":3118.49,"end":3122.49,"text":"所以我們用授權的方式由地方政府可以因地制宜來決定"},{"start":3122.49,"end":3126.49,"text":"那麼同時在他們自治條例裡面去做修訂"},{"start":3126.49,"end":3128.49,"text":"是否減免以及減免的幅度"},{"start":3128.49,"end":3131.49,"text":"這個部分我們也是對地方政府的一個尊重"},{"start":3131.49,"end":3133.49,"text":"其實那個部長"},{"start":3133.49,"end":3136.49,"text":"因為我們都知道少子化是國安的問題"},{"start":3136.49,"end":3138.49,"text":"但是像這種問題"},{"start":3138.49,"end":3140.49,"text":"站在中央的立場"},{"start":3140.49,"end":3143.49,"text":"你們應該就說我中央負擔多少"},{"start":3143.49,"end":3146.49,"text":"你們地方希望能夠配合"},{"start":3146.49,"end":3149.49,"text":"然後大家一致把這個問題來解決"},{"start":3149.49,"end":3151.49,"text":"這是當下很嚴重的問題"},{"start":3151.49,"end":3154.49,"text":"去年出生率十萬七千多人"},{"start":3154.49,"end":3158.49,"text":"今年可能八萬我看都還在邊緣"},{"start":3158.49,"end":3160.49,"text":"所以說這是當下很嚴重的問題"},{"start":3160.49,"end":3162.49,"text":"你要解決問題"},{"start":3162.49,"end":3164.49,"text":"今天這個問題要攤開來"},{"start":3164.49,"end":3168.49,"text":"把這些財政局重要的官員全部找來"},{"start":3168.49,"end":3169.49,"text":"一次又一次開會"},{"start":3169.49,"end":3171.49,"text":"開到最後大家有共識"},{"start":3171.49,"end":3174.49,"text":"然後中央負擔多少地方多少"},{"start":3174.49,"end":3177.49,"text":"那個這樣才能夠真正解決問題"},{"start":3177.49,"end":3182.49,"text":"我希望說你這個要是沒有過去找這些來開過會"},{"start":3182.49,"end":3187.49,"text":"希望你財政部能夠邀請這些財政的這些官員來"},{"start":3187.49,"end":3189.49,"text":"就是開個會"},{"start":3189.49,"end":3191.49,"text":"然後一次一次讓大家能不能"},{"start":3191.49,"end":3194.49,"text":"這個能夠取得一個共識"},{"start":3194.49,"end":3197.49,"text":"那個部長您的看法呢"},{"start":3198.48,"end":3201.48,"text":"部長委員的建議我們也都有聽到了"},{"start":3201.48,"end":3206.48,"text":"我相信解決少子女化這樣的問題"},{"start":3206.48,"end":3208.48,"text":"我們像中央地方都同樣都有體會"},{"start":3208.48,"end":3213.48,"text":"那我們也都希望各地方政府能夠共同一起來努力"},{"start":3213.48,"end":3217.48,"text":"然後應地制宜來決定他們的相關的一些措施"},{"start":3217.48,"end":3221.48,"text":"因此在我們的中央法規裡面是以授權地方政府"},{"start":3221.48,"end":3223.48,"text":"所以說你要不要你再你自己"},{"start":3223.48,"end":3224.48,"text":"對不對"},{"start":3224.48,"end":3226.48,"text":"那我相信地方政府一定也會"},{"start":3226.48,"end":3228.48,"text":"中央做好人那地方你要不要"},{"start":3228.48,"end":3232.48,"text":"這沒有不是我們只是授權由地方政府決定"},{"start":3232.48,"end":3233.48,"text":"當然啊"},{"start":3233.48,"end":3236.48,"text":"對我想委員我想這個部分"},{"start":3236.48,"end":3239.48,"text":"中央地方都應該都會理解"},{"start":3239.48,"end":3243.48,"text":"然後也會希望他們的轄區裡面能夠有更多的"},{"start":3243.48,"end":3246.48,"text":"生生不息的一個新生人口出生以及婚育家庭"},{"start":3246.48,"end":3249.48,"text":"我想大家目標是相同的"},{"start":3249.48,"end":3251.48,"text":"這個我看是只有講一講"},{"start":3251.48,"end":3253.48,"text":"真正要落實要做"},{"start":3253.48,"end":3255.48,"text":"因為那是地方稅"},{"start":3255.48,"end":3258.48,"text":"那你過去省政府的時候"},{"start":3258.48,"end":3260.48,"text":"那些錢也不是你中央的啊"},{"start":3260.48,"end":3262.48,"text":"對不對也都是歸地方啊"},{"start":3262.48,"end":3265.48,"text":"對不對省政府直接是跟地方稀稀相關啊"},{"start":3265.48,"end":3267.48,"text":"不是中央啊"},{"start":3267.48,"end":3269.48,"text":"那你因為省政府廢掉以後"},{"start":3269.48,"end":3271.48,"text":"那些錢全部都歸中央"},{"start":3271.48,"end":3273.48,"text":"現在是下放地方而已啊"},{"start":3274.37,"end":3275.37,"text":"對不對"},{"start":3275.37,"end":3279.37,"text":"委員這次彩化法修正以後大幅的下降裁員"},{"start":3279.37,"end":3284.37,"text":"光是營業稅地方只有地方就拿走95.5%"},{"start":3284.37,"end":3287.37,"text":"中央只有4.5%"},{"start":3287.37,"end":3291.37,"text":"所以彩化法修正以後情況已經有很大的改變了"},{"start":3291.37,"end":3292.37,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3292.37,"end":3295.37,"text":"好啦那個部長我希望喔"},{"start":3295.37,"end":3298.37,"text":"這個這個部分喔"},{"start":3298.37,"end":3301.37,"text":"不管是你這個房屋稅地價稅"},{"start":3301.37,"end":3304.37,"text":"要減免等等喔"},{"start":3304.37,"end":3308.37,"text":"希望你能夠找這些財政局的各單位喔"},{"start":3308.37,"end":3311.37,"text":"這個每一個縣市啊"},{"start":3311.37,"end":3312.37,"text":"多開幾次會"},{"start":3312.37,"end":3317.37,"text":"希望能夠到最後能夠取得一個大家可以接受的方式啊"},{"start":3317.37,"end":3322.37,"text":"這個我也希望財政部積極的去做"},{"start":3322.37,"end":3324.37,"text":"那第二個問題我請教喔"},{"start":3324.37,"end":3327.37,"text":"依房屋稅條例第五條規定"},{"start":3327.37,"end":3330.37,"text":"全國單一自住房屋限值"},{"start":3330.37,"end":3333.37,"text":"在一定金額以下可享受"},{"start":3333.37,"end":3337.37,"text":"自住稅率1%的減免優惠"},{"start":3337.37,"end":3339.37,"text":"那以六都為例"},{"start":3339.37,"end":3341.37,"text":"這個自住房屋限值啊"},{"start":3341.37,"end":3342.37,"text":"零頭去掉"},{"start":3342.37,"end":3345.37,"text":"台北市有267萬"},{"start":3345.37,"end":3347.37,"text":"新北市有235萬"},{"start":3347.37,"end":3349.37,"text":"桃園市有181萬"},{"start":3349.37,"end":3351.37,"text":"台中市有153萬"},{"start":3351.37,"end":3353.37,"text":"台南市有157萬"},{"start":3353.37,"end":3354.37,"text":"高雄市啊"},{"start":3354.37,"end":3356.37,"text":"有217萬"},{"start":3356.37,"end":3358.37,"text":"本席啊擔心房屋限值"},{"start":3358.37,"end":3360.37,"text":"這個檢討調整啊"},{"start":3360.37,"end":3362.37,"text":"新北市與台北市可能啊"},{"start":3362.37,"end":3365.37,"text":"很多家庭沒有辦法適應"},{"start":3365.37,"end":3367.37,"text":"沒有辦法適用"},{"start":3367.37,"end":3372.37,"text":"本席希望比照國民年金法第31條第四項的概念"},{"start":3372.37,"end":3374.37,"text":"設定一個起始點"},{"start":3374.37,"end":3380.37,"text":"讓符合新法租稅減免的這些婚姻家庭啊"},{"start":3380.37,"end":3383.37,"text":"在沒有房屋的權利下"},{"start":3384.37,"end":3388.37,"text":"不因為地方政府調整房屋限值"},{"start":3388.37,"end":3391.37,"text":"而影響減稅的資格"},{"start":3391.37,"end":3392.37,"text":"那個部長"},{"start":3393.21,"end":3395.21,"text":"還有這個你的看法"},{"start":3396.23,"end":3397.23,"text":"如何"},{"start":3397.23,"end":3398.23,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":3398.23,"end":3400.23,"text":"我們所以我們不是用"},{"start":3400.23,"end":3403.23,"text":"那個一定的金額不是用絕對值"},{"start":3403.23,"end":3404.23,"text":"而是用比較的數字"},{"start":3404.23,"end":3406.23,"text":"也比如說直轄市"},{"start":3406.23,"end":3408.23,"text":"還有新竹縣市是取"},{"start":3408.23,"end":3412.23,"text":"第一百分之一戶以下的"},{"start":3412.23,"end":3413.23,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":3413.23,"end":3415.23,"text":"就是說他佔前面的百分之一"},{"start":3415.23,"end":3416.23,"text":"是以金額來比較"},{"start":3416.23,"end":3417.23,"text":"是以那個百分比"},{"start":3417.23,"end":3419.23,"text":"不是用您就剛剛提到說"},{"start":3419.23,"end":3420.23,"text":"有絕對數字"},{"start":3420.23,"end":3422.23,"text":"如果這個金額整體調高"},{"start":3422.23,"end":3424.23,"text":"他的排序也會跟著調整"},{"start":3424.23,"e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吃"},{"start":3848.02,"end":3850.02,"text":"我們記得新清安"},{"start":3849.98,"end":3850.98,"text":"那麼去"},{"start":3850.98,"end":3852.98,"text":"拿到的資金"},{"start":3852.98,"end":3853.98,"text":"你說這個沒有"},{"start":3853.98,"end":3854.98,"text":"這個已經設定"},{"start":3854.98,"end":3855.98,"text":"他設定"},{"start":3855.98,"end":3856.98,"text":"不是設定"},{"start":3856.98,"end":3857.98,"text":"他一樣防止"},{"start":3857.98,"end":3858.98,"text":"譬如說我"},{"start":3859.65,"end":3860.65,"text":"我去買這個錢"},{"start":3860.65,"end":3862.65,"text":"是在我的名下"},{"start":3862.65,"end":3863.65,"text":"我可以再去借錢"},{"start":3863.65,"end":3866.65,"text":"我借錢投入股市"},{"start":3866.65,"end":3867.65,"text":"然後我借個100萬"},{"start":3867.65,"end":3869.65,"text":"借個50萬都沒關係"},{"start":3869.65,"end":3870.65,"text":"我現在花錢"},{"start":3870.65,"end":3872.65,"text":"我沒有看股市會漲"},{"start":3872.65,"end":3874.65,"text":"我把這個借的錢"},{"start":3874.65,"end":3875.65,"text":"去股市裡面"},{"start":3875.65,"end":3877.65,"text":"過一陣子很快就換掉了"},{"start":3877.65,"end":3878.65,"text":"沒什麼二子"},{"start":3878.65,"end":3879.65,"text":"你告訴我"},{"start":3879.65,"end":3880.65,"text":"有沒有這種"},{"start":3880.65,"end":3881.65,"text":"新清安"},{"start":3881.65,"end":3882.65,"text":"清安的第一個"},{"start":3882.65,"end":3883.65,"text":"當然就是"},{"start":3883.65,"end":3884.65,"text":"他買房子"},{"start":3884.65,"end":3885.65,"text":"然後抵押設定"},{"start":3885.65,"end":3886.65,"text":"那至於這個房子"},{"start":3886.65,"end":3888.65,"text":"能不能有足夠的價值"},{"start":3888.65,"end":3889.65,"text":"那這個房子"},{"start":3889.65,"end":3890.65,"text":"我們可以去做二胎"},{"start":3890.65,"end":3891.65,"text":"那這個是"},{"start":3891.65,"end":3892.65,"text":"銀行"},{"start":3892.65,"end":3893.65,"text":"他會去審核的"},{"start":3893.65,"end":3894.65,"text":"會去審核"},{"start":3894.65,"end":3896.65,"text":"那至於他帶出來的金額"},{"start":3896.65,"end":3898.65,"text":"去做什麼樣的一個用途"},{"start":3898.65,"end":3899.65,"text":"他只是帶了一個"},{"start":3899.65,"end":3901.65,"text":"新清安買了一間房子"},{"start":3901.65,"end":3902.65,"text":"對於他這個房子"},{"start":3902.65,"end":3903.65,"text":"後續的我們"},{"start":3903.65,"end":3904.65,"text":"還要去做"},{"start":3904.65,"end":3906.65,"text":"這樣子的一個管控"},{"start":3906.65,"end":3908.65,"text":"說他不可以去買股票"},{"start":3908.65,"end":3909.65,"text":"不可以再做貸款"},{"start":3909.65,"end":3910.65,"text":"委員"},{"start":3910.65,"end":3911.65,"text":"這個財產權"},{"start":3911.65,"end":3913.65,"text":"基本上是屬於他的"},{"start":3913.65,"end":3914.65,"text":"我們要做這樣的"},{"start":3914.65,"end":3915.65,"text":"一個限制的話"},{"start":3915.65,"end":3917.65,"text":"做這樣的一個限制的話"},{"start":3917.65,"end":3918.65,"text":"我覺得這已經是"},{"start":3918.65,"end":3919.65,"text":"一個法律的部分"},{"start":3919.65,"end":3920.65,"text":"因為財產權是他私人的"},{"start":3920.65,"end":3921.65,"text":"那只是政府在他"},{"start":3921.65,"end":3923.65,"text":"前期購買的時候"},{"start":3923.65,"end":3925.65,"text":"給予相關的一些利息補貼"},{"start":3925.65,"end":3927.65,"text":"減輕他一些負擔"},{"start":3927.65,"end":3928.65,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":3928.65,"end":3929.65,"text":"我們也算過這個金額"},{"start":3929.65,"end":3931.65,"text":"大概如果以6年補貼"},{"start":3931.65,"end":3932.65,"text":"1000萬的貸款"},{"start":3932.65,"end":3933.65,"text":"政府相關的補貼"},{"start":3933.65,"end":3934.65,"text":"就是一個人"},{"start":3934.65,"end":3935.65,"text":"就是22萬"},{"start":3935.65,"end":3936.65,"text":"限制他不准移轉"},{"start":3936.65,"end":3937.65,"text":"不准貸款"},{"start":3937.65,"end":3938.65,"text":"不准去買股票"},{"start":3938.65,"end":3940.65,"text":"我覺得這已經限制到"},{"start":3940.65,"end":3942.65,"text":"私人財產權的一個處分"},{"start":3942.65,"end":3943.65,"text":"利用"},{"start":3943.65,"end":3944.65,"text":"簡單來講"},{"start":3944.65,"end":3946.65,"text":"你的答案就是告訴我們"},{"start":3946.65,"end":3948.65,"text":"政府沒有辦法防止"},{"start":3949.95,"end":3950.95,"text":"甚至於說"},{"start":3950.95,"end":3951.95,"text":"就你"},{"start":3951.95,"end":3952.95,"text":"Go A-O-E-T"},{"start":3952.95,"end":3953.95,"text":"Go"},{"start":3953.95,"end":3955.95,"text":"他愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣"},{"start":3955.95,"end":3957.95,"text":"他可以拿去做二代"},{"start":3957.95,"end":3958.95,"text":"拿資金"},{"start":3958.95,"end":3959.95,"text":"拿到的去炒股"},{"start":3959.95,"end":3960.95,"text":"你們也沒有辦法去"},{"start":3962.55,"end":3963.55,"text":"不是有辦法沒有辦法"},{"start":3963.55,"end":3964.55,"text":"而是"},{"start":3964.55,"end":3965.55,"text":"要不要這樣做"},{"start":3965.55,"end":3966.55,"text":"第一個就是說"},{"start":3966.55,"end":3967.55,"text":"銀行在帶二胎的時候"},{"start":3967.55,"end":3969.55,"text":"第一個利率一定會比較高"},{"start":3969.55,"end":3970.55,"text":"第二個"},{"start":3970.55,"end":3971.55,"text":"他這個房子必須要"},{"start":3971.55,"end":3973.55,"text":"有足夠的擔保價值"},{"start":3973.55,"end":3974.55,"text":"才可能做"},{"start":3974.55,"end":3975.55,"text":"這是銀行在貸款的時候"},{"start":3975.55,"end":3978.55,"text":"本身就會做嚴格的審核的"},{"start":3978.55,"end":3979.55,"text":"我知道啦"},{"start":3979.55,"end":3981.55,"text":"但是可見得"},{"start":3981.55,"end":3983.55,"text":"目前來講就是可以啦"},{"start":3983.55,"end":3984.55,"text":"我們外界"},{"start":3984.55,"end":3987.55,"text":"所以外界的擔心是有道理的"},{"start":3987.55,"end":3989.55,"text":"外界的擔心是有道理的"},{"start":3989.55,"end":3990.55,"text":"這就是我要強調的重點"},{"start":3990.55,"end":3991.55,"text":"就是說"},{"start":3991.55,"end":3992.55,"text":"你們去研究一下吧"},{"start":3992.55,"end":3993.55,"text":"當然委員這樣的擔心"},{"start":3993.55,"end":3995.55,"text":"也是要呼籲這個客屋的民眾"},{"start":3995.55,"end":3997.55,"text":"另外你現在來講的話"},{"start":3997.55,"end":3999.55,"text":"投資要有審慎的"},{"start":3999.55,"end":4000.55,"text":"要有審慎的事務"},{"start":4000.55,"end":4002.55,"text":"請問你那個行政安"},{"start":4002.55,"end":4004.55,"text":"政府的利息補貼多少錢"},{"start":4004.55,"end":4005.55,"text":"政府的利息補貼"},{"start":4005.55,"end":4006.55,"text":"我們算過"},{"start":4006.55,"end":4008.55,"text":"以二十二"},{"start":4008.55,"end":4011.55,"text":"以他貸款一千萬來看的話"},{"start":4011.55,"end":4013.55,"text":"補貼大概是二十二萬五千"},{"start":4013.55,"end":4014.55,"text":"六年來說"},{"start":4014.55,"end":4016.55,"text":"他是貸一千萬的話"},{"start":4016.55,"end":4018.55,"text":"那麼他是二十二萬五千"},{"start":4020.06,"end":4022.06,"text":"就是他六年政府給予補貼"},{"start":4022.06,"end":4024.06,"text":"全部十七萬戶乘過來多少錢"},{"start":4024.06,"end":4026.06,"text":"全部十七萬戶的"},{"start":4026.06,"end":4028.06,"text":"全部的金額我們要再"},{"start":4028.06,"end":4029.06,"text":"我們要再另外再加"},{"start":4029.06,"end":4032.06,"text":"十七萬戶乘以六萬人"},{"start":4032.78,"end":4034.78,"text":"你剛剛講六萬還是六十萬"},{"start":4034.78,"end":4035.78,"text":"什麼六萬還是六十萬"},{"start":4035.78,"end":4036.78,"text":"你剛剛講六萬不是"},{"start":4038.29,"end":4041.29,"text":"我說他如果貸一千萬的話"},{"start":4041.29,"end":4044.29,"text":"六年我們就前三年利息補貼"},{"start":4044.29,"end":4048.29,"text":"到一點就是說他的利率是用一點七七五"},{"start":4048.29,"end":4050.29,"text":"後面每一年調升半"},{"start":4050.29,"end":4052.29,"text":"所以整個六年來看"},{"start":4052.29,"end":4054.29,"text":"政府給予他的利息補貼"},{"start":4054.29,"end":4056.29,"text":"就是二十二萬五千"},{"start":4056.29,"end":4059.29,"text":"二十二萬乘以十七萬戶"},{"start":4059.29,"end":4061.29,"text":"這個帳就這樣算"},{"start":4061.29,"end":4063.29,"text":"難道不是十二十三十"},{"start":4063.29,"end":4064.29,"text":"就大概快四百億"},{"start":4064.29,"end":4065.29,"text":"但是每一個人"},{"start":4065.29,"end":4066.29,"text":"不是都貸到一千萬"},{"start":4066.29,"end":4068.29,"text":"對啦我說平均嘛"},{"start":4068.29,"end":4070.29,"text":"所以每一個人都貸到一千萬"},{"start":4070.29,"end":4074.29,"text":"等於六年我們政府要貼了大概四百億左右"},{"start":4074.29,"end":4075.29,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":4075.29,"end":4079.29,"text":"所以六年等於一年的話就等於是"},{"start":4079.29,"end":4084.29,"text":"六年的話等於一年差不多七十億左右"},{"start":4084.29,"end":4086.29,"text":"十七萬裡面百分之四十"},{"start":4086.29,"end":4090.29,"text":"百分之十七是低於貸款五百萬的"},{"start":4090.29,"end":4093.29,"text":"五百萬到八百萬大概有百分之三十"},{"start":4093.29,"end":4096.29,"text":"所以超過的其實八百萬以上"},{"start":4096.29,"end":4098.29,"text":"百分之四十四"},{"start":4098.29,"end":4099.29,"text":"再問你一個東西"},{"start":4099.29,"end":4103.29,"text":"最近這個股市減少這麼多"},{"start":4104.72,"end":4105.72,"text":"這些資金"},{"start":4106.44,"end":4108.44,"text":"這股市成交量"},{"start":4108.98,"end":4110.98,"text":"明顯的少於一兆"},{"start":4110.98,"end":4113.98,"text":"那這個東西原來都上兆"},{"start":4113.98,"end":4114.98,"text":"現在的低於一兆"},{"start":4114.98,"end":4115.98,"text":"這個資金跑去哪裡"},{"start":4115.98,"end":4117.98,"text":"你們有沒有追一下"},{"start":4118.63,"end":4120.63,"text":"有沒有跑去訪視有沒有"},{"start":4122.12,"end":4124.12,"text":"這個恐怕這個應該是金管會"},{"start":4124.12,"end":4126.12,"text":"跟金行去追"},{"start":4126.12,"end":4127.12,"text":"不是財政部去追"},{"start":4127.12,"end":4129.12,"text":"你們沒有去注意到這個東西"},{"start":4129.12,"end":4132.12,"text":"最近這兩天的股市的成交量"},{"start":4132.12,"end":4135.12,"text":"昨天來說是比較低"},{"start":4135.12,"end":4137.12,"text":"昨天低了八千多億而已"},{"start":4137.12,"end":4141.12,"text":"昨天整體來看我們以七月份來看"},{"start":4141.12,"end":4144.12,"text":"整體的七月份是一兆三千"},{"start":4144.12,"end":4145.12,"text":"一兆三千億"},{"start":4145.12,"end":4148.12,"text":"七月份的十四天平均數是一兆三千億"},{"start":4148.12,"end":4151.12,"text":"那昨天五月二十一號是"},{"start":4151.12,"end":4155.12,"text":"如果加上上市會新規是一兆零兩百一十八億"},{"start":4155.12,"end":4156.12,"text":"還是超過兆"},{"start":4156.12,"end":4158.12,"text":"九零九八千多億"},{"start":4158.12,"end":4160.12,"text":"我們這邊是看上市上櫃"},{"start":4160.12,"end":4161.12,"text":"你是加上櫃"},{"start":4161.12,"end":4162.12,"text":"全部為上市櫃"},{"start":4162.12,"end":4163.12,"text":"你們去注意吧"},{"start":4163.12,"end":4166.12,"text":"我們希望你在資金的放出來"},{"start":4166.12,"end":4169.12,"text":"注意到對於整個的金融市場"},{"start":4169.12,"end":4173.12,"text":"因為現在政府的M1B又增加"},{"start":4173.12,"end":4175.12,"text":"所以要去控控一下"},{"start":4175.12,"end":4177.12,"text":"我認為財政部還是有這個責任"},{"start":4177.12,"end":4178.12,"text":"謝謝委員的建議"},{"start":4178.12,"end":4179.12,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4179.12,"end":4181.12,"text":"謝謝賴志邦委員"},{"start":4181.12,"end":4183.12,"text":"下一位請郭國文委員質詢"},{"start":4189.44,"end":4190.44,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4190.44,"end":4191.44,"text":"有請莊部長"},{"start":4191.44,"end":4192.44,"text":"請財政部莊部長"},{"start":4198.13,"end":4199.13,"text":"部長好"},{"start":4199.13,"end":4202.13,"text":"我想要跟你探討一下今天的會議主題"},{"start":4202.13,"end":4205.13,"text":"關於居住減壓的房屋稅跟定價稅"},{"start":4205.13,"end":4209.13,"text":"來因應整個台灣這個少子化的問題"},{"start":4209.13,"end":4212.13,"text":"但行政院版本當中對外講得非常的好"},{"start":4212.13,"end":4217.13,"text":"就是說基本上會有百萬戶人這個收益"},{"start":4217.13,"end":4218.13,"text":"超過百萬戶人收益"},{"start":4218.13,"end":4222.13,"text":"而且這個稅減可能到五十到七十五億"},{"start":4222.13,"end":4224.13,"text":"我真的不曉得這個部長"},{"start":4224.13,"end":4226.13,"text":"這個新聞稿可以寫這麼大的目標"},{"start":4226.13,"end":4228.13,"text":"這怎麼寫出來的"},{"start":4228.13,"end":4232.13,"text":"如果對照一下行政院版本是得適當減免的"},{"start":4232.13,"end":4233.13,"text":"得耶"},{"start":4233.13,"end":4234.13,"text":"不是因耶"},{"start":4234.37,"end":4236.37,"text":"那你怎麼算得出來呢"},{"start":4236.37,"end":4239.37,"text":"那你怎麼知道地方要不要減這個稅"},{"start":4239.37,"end":4242.37,"text":"那五十到七十五億要怎麼算出來"},{"start":4242.37,"end":4244.37,"text":"百萬戶要怎麼形成"},{"start":4244.57,"end":4247.57,"text":"這是一個非常非常大的問號"},{"start":4247.57,"end":4248.57,"text":"這個部長"},{"start":4248.57,"end":4249.57,"text":"一來啊"},{"start":4249.57,"end":4252.57,"text":"我也稍微換算了一下"},{"start":4252.57,"end":4254.57,"text":"你透過稅減的方式當然是最好"},{"start":4254.57,"end":4256.57,"text":"這是減少這個地方政府"},{"start":4256.57,"end":4258.57,"text":"甚至公所亂發獎金"},{"start":4258.57,"end":4260.57,"text":"沒有達到實質的成效"},{"start":4260.57,"end":4263.57,"text":"如果你去從你的相對的統計來說"},{"start":4263.57,"end":4266.57,"text":"從自用住宅當中的定價稅"},{"start":4266.57,"end":4268.57,"text":"總共是七十一億"},{"start":4268.57,"end":4272.57,"text":"是善所有的定價稅當中的七點二percent"},{"start":4272.57,"end":4276.57,"text":"平均的美護定價稅是一七一五元"},{"start":4276.57,"end":4279.57,"text":"台北市稍微高一點是五一四億元"},{"start":4279.57,"end":4283.57,"text":"新北桃園、新竹、台南、高雄平均在一千多"},{"start":4283.57,"end":4285.57,"text":"其他都要一千以下"},{"start":4286.62,"end":4288.62,"text":"單用住宅的這個部分"},{"start":4288.62,"end":4291.62,"text":"基本上的總共的部分"},{"start":4291.62,"end":4294.62,"text":"你能夠減美他負擔的大概是約這個"},{"start":4295.09,"end":4297.09,"text":"這個區間"},{"start":4297.09,"end":4300.09,"text":"那另外你從自用住宅的部分"},{"start":4300.47,"end":4302.47,"text":"總體的稅額是一一三億"},{"start":4302.47,"end":4306.47,"text":"占全部房屋稅的大概11%"},{"start":4306.47,"end":4309.47,"text":"平均大概三千五"},{"start":4309.47,"end":4312.47,"text":"簡單講你如果把全國單一住宅"},{"start":4312.47,"end":4314.47,"text":"最多的符合資格的"},{"start":4314.47,"end":4316.47,"text":"能夠少多少的絕對額"},{"start":4316.47,"end":4317.47,"text":"約莫是多少"},{"start":4317.47,"end":4321.47,"text":"是定價稅加房屋稅大概是五千元"},{"start":4322.21,"end":4327.21,"text":"我不曉得你這個五十到七十五億是怎麼估出來的"},{"start":4327.21,"end":4329.21,"text":"這新聞稿不要寫得太誇張"},{"start":4329.21,"end":4331.21,"text":"你如果要達到這個目標的話"},{"start":4331.21,"end":4332.21,"text":"你要改什麼"},{"start":4332.21,"end":4334.21,"text":"也就是說得適當減免"},{"start":4334.21,"end":4337.21,"text":"應改成應減免"},{"start":4337.21,"end":4339.21,"text":"很多委員提出來是這樣子"},{"start":4339.21,"end":4343.21,"text":"你這樣居住減壓的這個因應少子化政策"},{"start":4343.21,"end":4345.21,"text":"才能達到這個良法美意"},{"start":4345.21,"end":4348.21,"text":"部長你嘛說一下解釋一下"},{"start":4348.21,"end":4350.21,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4350.21,"end":4351.21,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":4351.21,"end":4353.21,"text":"在這裡我們可以看到"},{"start":4353.21,"end":4357.21,"text":"在自住裡面總共有650萬"},{"start":4357.21,"end":4359.21,"text":"以115年來看有651萬戶"},{"start":4359.21,"end":4363.21,"text":"那單一自住裡面就有318萬件"},{"start":4363.21,"end":4365.21,"text":"318萬件"},{"start":4365.21,"end":4367.21,"text":"所以佔的比例是大概有百分"},{"start":4367.21,"end":4371.21,"text":"單一自住佔了48.8%這樣的一個金額"},{"start":4371.21,"end":4372.21,"text":"那單一自住裡面"},{"start":4372.21,"end":4374.21,"text":"如果他是婚喻家庭的話"},{"start":4374.21,"end":4376.21,"text":"那我們當然是用一個"},{"start":4376.21,"end":4378.21,"text":"就是說我們先去做這樣一個估算"},{"start":4378.21,"end":4379.21,"text":"先是做一個"},{"start":4379.21,"end":4381.21,"text":"我們相信呢"},{"start":4381.21,"end":4384.21,"text":"我們授權地方政府去做相關的一些減免"},{"start":4384.21,"end":4387.21,"text":"那地方政府也會意識到少子女化"},{"start":4387.21,"end":4391.21,"text":"以及在他們自治條例裡面去做相關規範"},{"start":4391.21,"end":4392.21,"text":"所以我們有一個區間"},{"start":4392.21,"end":4395.21,"text":"我們以一個最大的一個額度的估算"},{"start":4395.21,"end":4399.21,"text":"少子化本來就應該是全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有道理"},{"start":4743.16,"end":4744.16,"text":"你要去思考這個問題"},{"start":4744.16,"end":4746.16,"text":"但是問題你3.0當中"},{"start":4746.16,"end":4747.16,"text":"有沒有這樣的規範"},{"start":4747.16,"end":4748.16,"text":"部長"},{"start":4748.16,"end":4749.16,"text":"沒有"},{"start":4749.16,"end":4751.16,"text":"第一你如果違規的話"},{"start":4751.16,"end":4753.16,"text":"會追回你的利息"},{"start":4753.16,"end":4755.16,"text":"第二個追回利息的補貼"},{"start":4755.16,"end":4756.16,"text":"違規剛剛講過"},{"start":4756.16,"end":4758.16,"text":"貸款條件會重新演繹"},{"start":4758.16,"end":4759.16,"text":"重新合理"},{"start":4759.16,"end":4761.16,"text":"你還是只有利息的追回而已"},{"start":4761.16,"end":4763.16,"text":"他一樣可以破例了結"},{"start":4763.16,"end":4764.16,"text":"破例無損"},{"start":4764.16,"end":4766.16,"text":"他一樣可以造成投資"},{"start":4766.16,"end":4770.16,"text":"他一樣可以造成房市的波動"},{"start":4770.16,"end":4771.16,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4771.16,"end":4773.16,"text":"你還是會造成那個跟房市"},{"start":4773.16,"end":4776.16,"text":"整個信用管制的左右互搏"},{"start":4776.16,"end":4778.16,"text":"你沒有改變這個問題"},{"start":4778.16,"end":4780.16,"text":"委員 房屋買了以後"},{"start":4780.16,"end":4781.16,"text":"我們第一個"},{"start":4781.16,"end":4782.16,"text":"我們已經告訴你"},{"start":4782.16,"end":4784.16,"text":"醫生你只能貸一次"},{"start":4784.16,"end":4786.16,"text":"那你貸的人你要增值這個"},{"start":4786.16,"end":4788.16,"text":"你要轉售獲利"},{"start":4788.16,"end":4790.16,"text":"你現在這個方式"},{"start":4790.16,"end":4791.16,"text":"要克服你的"},{"start":4791.16,"end":4792.16,"text":"你現在這個方式"},{"start":4792.16,"end":4793.16,"text":"是要克服你的"},{"start":4793.16,"end":4794.16,"text":"提早進入房市"},{"start":4794.16,"end":4795.16,"text":"讓他減少利息的成本"},{"start":4795.16,"end":4797.16,"text":"而擁有自住宅"},{"start":4797.16,"end":4798.16,"text":"自住的房屋"},{"start":4798.16,"end":4799.16,"text":"自住的房屋沒有錯"},{"start":4799.16,"end":4800.16,"text":"對 自住的房屋"},{"start":4800.16,"end":4803.16,"text":"那何以你不能把它強化說"},{"start":4803.16,"end":4804.16,"text":"符合你財政部的定義"},{"start":4804.16,"end":4806.16,"text":"六年收台自住五年之中"},{"start":4806.16,"end":4808.16,"text":"有一些約束條款"},{"start":4808.16,"end":4809.16,"text":"本席跟你對話的目的"},{"start":4809.16,"end":4812.16,"text":"就是減少投機炒作的可能"},{"start":4812.16,"end":4814.16,"text":"你不去想一想"},{"start":4814.16,"end":4816.16,"text":"這個部分我們都想過"},{"start":4816.16,"end":4818.16,"text":"那個部長想一想"},{"start":4818.16,"end":4819.16,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4819.16,"end":4820.16,"text":"想一想嘛"},{"start":4820.16,"end":4821.16,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4821.16,"end":4823.16,"text":"謝謝國國委員"},{"start":4823.16,"end":4825.16,"text":"你只有追回利息沒有意思嘛"},{"start":4826.69,"end":4828.69,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":4829.72,"end":4831.72,"text":"這下位請到會員委員諮詢"},{"start":4835.78,"end":4836.78,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4836.78,"end":4838.78,"text":"那個請部長"},{"start":4843.38,"end":4844.38,"text":"部長"},{"start":4844.61,"end":4845.61,"text":"早安"},{"start":4845.61,"end":4848.61,"text":"那個延續國務委員的這一個"},{"start":4848.61,"end":4849.61,"text":"是不是投機"},{"start":4849.61,"end":4852.61,"text":"新清安3.0會不會造成就是說"},{"start":4852.61,"end":4854.61,"text":"我一對夫妻"},{"start":4854.61,"end":4855.61,"text":"那我這對夫妻"},{"start":4855.61,"end":4858.61,"text":"其實在我先生已經用"},{"start":4858.61,"end":4860.61,"text":"那個我們有一棟房子了"},{"start":4860.61,"end":4862.61,"text":"那這一棟房子"},{"start":4862.61,"end":4864.61,"text":"如果我在台北市"},{"start":4864.61,"end":4866.61,"text":"我另外再買一棟房子的話"},{"start":4866.61,"end":4869.61,"text":"那這一棟房子是3500萬"},{"start":4869.61,"end":4872.61,"text":"那是不是適用在新清安3.0"},{"start":4872.61,"end":4873.61,"text":"那當然是啊"},{"start":4873.61,"end":4875.61,"text":"當然是的話"},{"start":4875.61,"end":4876.61,"text":"那等於說"},{"start":4876.61,"end":4880.61,"text":"等於說就是說我這個3500萬"},{"start":4880.61,"end":4882.61,"text":"我買到這一棟房子的時候"},{"start":4882.61,"end":4883.61,"text":"我也一樣"},{"start":4883.61,"end":4886.61,"text":"即使我買了6000萬的房子"},{"start":4886.61,"end":4887.61,"text":"我這3500萬"},{"start":4887.61,"end":4889.61,"text":"我是可以用新清安3.0是不是"},{"start":4891.5,"end":4892.5,"text":"第一個"},{"start":4892.5,"end":4896.5,"text":"夫妻如果夫已經有房子的話"},{"start":4896.5,"end":4899.5,"text":"我們的所謂沒有自由住宅是本人配偶"},{"start":4899.5,"end":4902.5,"text":"其實未成年子女都沒有自己的房子"},{"start":4902.5,"end":4904.5,"text":"所以先生已經有了一間房子"},{"start":4904.5,"end":4907.5,"text":"那麼太太就不能再申請這個"},{"start":4907.5,"end":4909.5,"text":"買一間房子申請適用新清安"},{"start":4909.5,"end":4911.5,"text":"你要買房子當然沒有問題"},{"start":4911.5,"end":4912.5,"text":"只是你不能適用新清安"},{"start":4912.5,"end":4915.5,"text":"第二個如果在台北市買"},{"start":4915.5,"end":4918.5,"text":"你這個房屋總價是6000萬的話"},{"start":4918.5,"end":4920.5,"text":"那也不能適用新清安"},{"start":4920.5,"end":4922.5,"text":"因為我們這一次的新清安對於協助的對象"},{"start":4922.5,"end":4924.5,"text":"我們必須是要能夠精準"},{"start":4924.5,"end":4927.5,"text":"也就是高所得高資歷的"},{"start":4927.5,"end":4931.5,"text":"並不是政府要給予協助補助的一個相關的對象"},{"start":4931.5,"end":4936.5,"text":"所以就是說我如果要用在3.0的話"},{"start":4936.5,"end":4939.5,"text":"我在台北市一定是要總價是3500的"},{"start":4939.5,"end":4941.5,"text":"我不能超過3500"},{"start":4941.5,"end":4943.5,"text":"對不超過3500的房子"},{"start":4944.37,"end":4948.37,"text":"好 我想部長這個新清安3.0"},{"start":4948.37,"end":4951.37,"text":"這個方案的四大核心的條件"},{"start":4951.37,"end":4955.37,"text":"其實我們都不知道他是要拯救房子"},{"start":4955.37,"end":4956.37,"text":"還是居住正義"},{"start":4956.37,"end":4959.37,"text":"其實看了你這個政策"},{"start":4959.37,"end":4961.37,"text":"其實目的到底是什麼"},{"start":4961.37,"end":4962.37,"text":"我們就覺得"},{"start":4963.96,"end":4966.96,"text":"就是有很多的一個疑問"},{"start":4966.96,"end":4969.96,"text":"到底是政策的一個宣示的目的"},{"start":4969.96,"end":4970.96,"text":"到底是為什麼"},{"start":4970.96,"end":4975.96,"text":"是為了讓年輕人有機會買到更好的房子"},{"start":4975.96,"end":4978.96,"text":"還是說適用他們自己的房子"},{"start":4978.96,"end":4982.96,"text":"還是協助我們民眾可以自購住宅"},{"start":4982.96,"end":4985.96,"text":"還是在解救這個房屋的一個市場"},{"start":4985.96,"end":4989.96,"text":"顯然看起來這一個整個政策"},{"start":4989.96,"end":4992.96,"text":"好像很多的一個矛盾點"},{"start":4992.96,"end":4994.96,"text":"接著這個矛盾點"},{"start":4994.96,"end":4997.96,"text":"跟部長做一個探討"},{"start":4997.96,"end":5004.96,"text":"為什麼你的年紀年齡限定在小於80歲"},{"start":5004.96,"end":5009.96,"text":"你異色黃帶一路是不是要繳到就是說最後80歲"},{"start":5009.96,"end":5013.96,"text":"這個80歲的上限確實可能導致"},{"start":5013.96,"end":5018.96,"text":"就是很多借款人他可能一輩子都是背著一個黃帶"},{"start":5018.96,"end":5023.96,"text":"如果我們用2024年國人的平均壽命是80.77"},{"start":5023.96,"end":5026.96,"text":"你是不是用這樣子算出來的"},{"start":5026.96,"end":5029.96,"text":"為什麼不設定就是說你為什麼"},{"start":5029.96,"end":5034.96,"text":"為什麼是設定未滿50歲的那個青安的青"},{"start":5034.96,"end":5036.96,"text":"而不是青年的青"},{"start":5036.96,"end":5038.96,"text":"這個這個字你怎麼算的"},{"start":5038.96,"end":5040.96,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":5040.96,"end":5044.96,"text":"我們在年齡上是已不超過50歲"},{"start":5044.96,"end":5045.96,"text":"不超過50歲"},{"start":5045.96,"end":5052.96,"text":"另外就是80是指年齡加上貸款期限加起來不超過80"},{"start":5052.96,"end":5054.96,"text":"這個也就是剛剛解決"},{"start":5054.96,"end":5058.96,"text":"剛剛委員說到80歲還在背什麼樣的一個貸款"},{"start":5058.96,"end":5059.96,"text":"80幾歲還在背"},{"start":5059.96,"end":5063.96,"text":"所以我們這個部分就第一個年齡是已未滿50歲"},{"start":5063.96,"end":5065.96,"text":"那所謂青年青安"},{"start":5065.96,"end":5067.96,"text":"也知道我們現在第一個就是說"},{"start":5067.96,"end":5070.96,"text":"現在購屋年齡有向後趨勢的"},{"start":5070.96,"end":5074.96,"text":"所以我們也就以低於50歲做一個門檻"},{"start":5074.96,"end":5075.96,"text":"做一個門檻"},{"start":5075.96,"end":5078.96,"text":"那這個部分其實在我們的2.0的時候"},{"start":5078.96,"end":5079.96,"text":"我們就知道其實"},{"start":5079.96,"end":5082.96,"text":"如果以50歲為門檻的話"},{"start":5082.96,"end":5086.96,"text":"其實只有影響的是5.39%"},{"start":5086.96,"end":5090.96,"text":"換言之我們上次2.0的時候是94.6%的人"},{"start":5090.96,"end":5094.96,"text":"都是50歲以下都符合所謂的一個青年的一個層級"},{"start":5094.96,"end":5098.96,"text":"我們看年齡40歲以下占了73%"},{"start":5098.96,"end":5102.96,"text":"簡單的講就是說你你把它拉到那個就是80歲"},{"start":5102.96,"end":5105.96,"text":"你就是要讓這整個新青安3.0"},{"start":5105.96,"end":5108.96,"text":"他這整個政策受惠的人更多嗎"},{"start":5108.96,"end":5109.96,"text":"是不是這個意思"},{"start":5109.96,"end":5111.96,"text":"不是受惠的人更多"},{"start":5111.96,"end":5114.96,"text":"是我們認為應該就是把我們的資源"},{"start":5114.96,"end":5117.96,"text":"用在更需要協助的朋友們身上"},{"start":5117.96,"end":5120.96,"text":"所以我們當然也考慮他影響的層面"},{"start":5120.96,"end":5123.96,"text":"所以把年齡定在50這個部分"},{"start":5123.96,"end":5126.96,"text":"50以下我們也參考2.0當時實施的情況"},{"start":5126.96,"end":5128.96,"text":"以及各個年齡層購屋的情況"},{"start":5128.96,"end":5131.96,"text":"我們知道40歲以下的是占了73%"},{"start":5131.96,"end":5135.96,"text":"而50歲以下是占了94.5%"},{"start":5135.96,"end":5137.96,"text":"所以這個部分我們認為"},{"start":5137.96,"end":5141.96,"text":"就目前來說購屋的年齡大概是這樣子的一個大比例的情況下"},{"start":5141.96,"end":5147.96,"text":"我們定一個年齡同時也讓他的年齡加上貸款期限不要超過80"},{"start":5147.96,"end":5151.96,"text":"我覺得這個部分是當時我們經過跨部會的多方的討論出來"},{"start":5151.96,"end":5154.96,"text":"我是覺得未滿50歲的規定"},{"start":5154.96,"end":5156.96,"text":"這個明顯是寬鬆"},{"start":5156.96,"end":5160.96,"text":"跟青年的定位實在是不符合"},{"start":5160.96,"end":5165.96,"text":"我們再來談到了就是以收入為篩選標準的話"},{"start":5165.96,"end":5170.96,"text":"那你所得不能超過200萬"},{"start":5172.34,"end":5174.34,"text":"不能超過200萬"},{"start":5174.34,"end":5176.34,"text":"我請問一下戶稅署署長"},{"start":5178.77,"end":5181.77,"text":"來你新到的我請教你"},{"start":5181.77,"end":5183.77,"text":"你的一個月的薪水多少"},{"start":5183.77,"end":5184.77,"text":"也好"},{"start":5186.11,"end":5189.11,"text":"說實在我不是那麼具體記得那個數字"},{"start":5189.11,"end":5190.11,"text":"你還沒有領到"},{"start":5190.11,"end":5194.11,"text":"那你的所得那個有沒有超過200萬"},{"start":5194.11,"end":5197.11,"text":"你跟你先生的所得合起來有沒有超過200萬"},{"start":5197.11,"end":5198.11,"text":"我跟我先生兩個人當然有"},{"start":5198.11,"end":5199.11,"text":"我一個人應該沒有"},{"start":5199.11,"end":5201.11,"text":"你一個人應該沒有"},{"start":5201.11,"end":5202.11,"text":"好"},{"start":5202.11,"end":5205.11,"text":"我跟我原報說因為我真的沒有很注意我自己的所得"},{"start":5205.11,"end":5206.11,"text":"因為都入帳"},{"start":5206.11,"end":5207.11,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":5207.11,"end":5214.11,"text":"那相當就是說如果就是我們財政部限制聲帶的那個貸款人"},{"start":5214.11,"end":5220.11,"text":"所得不得超過200萬就相當是業薪是15到16萬"},{"start":5220.11,"end":5221.11,"text":"好署長你請回"},{"start":5221.11,"end":5222.11,"text":"部長"},{"start":5222.11,"end":5223.11,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5223.11,"end":5226.11,"text":"如果我的業薪是15到16萬"},{"start":5226.11,"end":5230.11,"text":"那業薪15萬的人也可以領取政府的一個補助"},{"start":5230.11,"end":5233.11,"text":"然後來申請這個新清安貸款"},{"start":5233.11,"end":5236.11,"text":"那這樣子的話這個合理嗎"},{"start":5237.15,"end":5240.15,"text":"在這個部分我們是以借款人本人"},{"start":5240.15,"end":5244.15,"text":"本人的一個年所得來做一個"},{"start":5244.15,"end":5247.15,"text":"也就是說我們希望政府給予補助的對象"},{"start":5247.15,"end":5250.15,"text":"不要對於所謂的高財力高資歷者"},{"start":5250.15,"end":5254.15,"text":"我們希望把補助的對象更為精準去需要協助的部分"},{"start":5254.15,"end":5257.15,"text":"所以我們把定為年所得低於200萬"},{"start":5257.15,"end":5260.15,"text":"而且是以借款人本人並負是以家戶來補助"},{"start":5260.15,"end":5263.15,"text":"我覺得你這個200萬會不會定的太高了"},{"start":5263.15,"end":5265.15,"text":"為什麼不是100萬"},{"start":5265.15,"end":5268.15,"text":"這個等於是幫富人開了一個後門"},{"start":5268.15,"end":5271.15,"text":"讓富人也可以來用新清安3.0"},{"start":5271.15,"end":5275.15,"text":"200萬如果各年所得就成為富人"},{"start":5275.73,"end":5277.73,"text":"我覺得這個部分我們其實衡量過"},{"start":5277.73,"end":5281.73,"text":"年所得的部分我們也計算過"},{"start":5281.73,"end":5285.73,"text":"大概都是不超過200萬居於比例大"},{"start":5285.73,"end":5289.73,"text":"那我想這個部分也是要協助需要買房子的人"},{"start":5289.73,"end":5291.73,"text":"我們來做一個協助"},{"start":5291.73,"end":5297.73,"text":"年所得200萬的人用不到你的新清安3.0了"},{"start":5297.73,"end":5300.73,"text":"對啊 用不超過200萬就不適用"},{"start":5300.73,"end":5302.73,"text":"你這個政策其實實在是"},{"start":5302.73,"end":5305.73,"text":"我不知道單一個人200萬是怎麼來的"},{"start":5305.73,"end":5311.73,"text":"如果你用主計總處公布的2024年家庭收支調查的結果顯示"},{"start":5311.73,"end":5315.73,"text":"那他每一副平均是88.8萬"},{"start":5315.73,"end":5318.73,"text":"那儲蓄的平均是27.6萬"},{"start":5318.73,"end":5324.73,"text":"那你如果考量就是皇太的支出應該占總支出的三分之一的話"},{"start":5324.73,"end":5326.73,"text":"那算出來是200萬"},{"start":5326.73,"end":5328.73,"text":"你是不是用這樣的算法"},{"start":5328.73,"end":5329.73,"text":"沒有錯"},{"start":5329.73,"end":5331.73,"text":"可是我覺得這樣的算法的話"},{"start":5331.73,"end":5337.73,"text":"這個計算邏輯好像有很多很多的一個很奇怪的地方"},{"start":5337.73,"end":5340.73,"text":"如果用勞動部公布的新鮮人的一個薪資"},{"start":5340.73,"end":5344.73,"text":"大學畢業他的中位數每個人大概是3萬4"},{"start":5344.73,"end":5346.73,"text":"那研究所是5萬1"},{"start":5346.73,"end":5350.73,"text":"換算年薪所得大概就是40.8萬"},{"start":5350.73,"end":5352.73,"text":"或是61.2萬"},{"start":5352.73,"end":5356.73,"text":"部長如果要鼓勵年輕的年輕人買房的話"},{"start":5356.73,"end":5361.73,"text":"這個算出來的數字難道會比較不是比較合乎現況嗎"},{"start":5361.73,"end":5367.73,"text":"不會那您剛剛講的那些情況其實他都是符合新清安貸款的一個條件"},{"start":5367.73,"end":5369.73,"text":"他就在我們的範圍內"},{"start":5369.73,"end":5370.73,"text":"就在你的範圍內"},{"start":5370.73,"end":5374.73,"text":"對可是問題是你的那個論舉太大了"},{"start":5374.73,"end":5377.73,"text":"有人說大有人說小"},{"start":5377.73,"end":5383.73,"text":"部長有沒有真正的財政部真正的要支持年輕人結婚"},{"start":5383.73,"end":5385.73,"text":"我們要鼓勵"},{"start":5385.73,"end":5389.73,"text":"這個看起來不知道你是喊真的還喊假的"},{"start":5389.73,"end":5393.73,"text":"如果我們用內政部的一個調查的話"},{"start":5393.73,"end":5397.73,"text":"男生結婚的年齡大概是在31歲到35歲"},{"start":5397.73,"end":5401.73,"text":"女生大概是26歲到30歲"},{"start":5401.73,"end":5405.73,"text":"那這樣子的一個平均的話就是說"},{"start":5405.73,"end":5411.73,"text":"他如果我們用剛才延續剛才就是說我們年輕人他們"},{"start":5411.73,"end":5413.73,"text":"拿到的一個薪資來看的話"},{"start":5413.73,"end":5415.73,"text":"那就說這個"},{"start":5416.33,"end":5418.33,"text":"業薪中位數大概是58萬"},{"start":5418.33,"end":5422.33,"text":"那一年58萬三分之一就是19萬"},{"start":5422.33,"end":5426.33,"text":"那貸款的額度你上調到1200萬的時候"},{"start":5426.33,"end":5429.33,"text":"假設你的寬限期是三年貸款是30年"},{"start":5429.33,"end":5433.33,"text":"那這樣就表示說你到了第37個月"},{"start":5433.33,"end":5438.33,"text":"開始每個月要開始還本利大概就是4.7萬"},{"start":5438.33,"end":5440.33,"text":"那一年要還44萬"},{"start":5440.33,"end":5442.33,"text":"如果貸款40年的話"},{"start":5442.33,"end":5447.33,"text":"還那個還款本利跟那個他的本金大概是3.7萬"},{"start":5447.33,"end":5451.33,"text":"一年還有56萬多"},{"start":5451.33,"end":5455.33,"text":"所以我覺得這個比財政部的三分之一還高"},{"start":5455.33,"end":5461.33,"text":"部長我覺得大家對你的薪金3.0顯然都還有很多的一個餘率"},{"start":5461.33,"end":5466.33,"text":"是不是我們可以重新再再試著再做一些檢討"},{"start":5467.9,"end":5471.9,"text":"大家也都很期待新清安的清安3.0的推出"},{"start":5471.9,"end":5472.9,"text":"我們現在已經推出"},{"start":5472.9,"end":5476.9,"text":"在執行過程當中我們會持續關注辦理的情況"},{"start":5476.9,"end":5478.9,"text":"謝謝委員的指教 謝謝"},{"start":5478.9,"end":5479.9,"text":"謝謝賴會員委員"},{"start":5479.9,"end":5482.9,"text":"下一位委員請林大華委員質詢"},{"start":5491.63,"end":5493.63,"text":"下一位請劉書斌委員質詢"},{"start":5502.63,"end":5504.63,"text":"謝謝主席 求請莊部長"},{"start":5505.45,"end":5506.45,"text":"請財政部專部長"},{"start":5511.68,"end":5512.68,"text":"部長好"},{"start":5512.68,"end":5513.68,"text":"好 部長好"},{"start":5513.68,"end":5518.68,"text":"那8月1號開始就要實施清安3.0"},{"start":5518.68,"end":5522.68,"text":"那請問清安3.0這項政策的目的是要雪中送炭"},{"start":5522.68,"end":5526.68,"text":"幫助真正手購的青年還是在錦上添花"},{"start":5526.68,"end":5530.68,"text":"補貼本身就有能力購買的購物者"},{"start":5532.48,"end":5536.48,"text":"請問清安政策從來就是協助沒有自有住宅的民眾"},{"start":5536.48,"end":5538.48,"text":"購買房屋自住使用"},{"start":5538.48,"end":5541.48,"text":"我們支持青年實現購物安心成家"},{"start":5541.48,"end":5543.48,"text":"這樣的一個政策目標是沒有變的"},{"start":5543.48,"end":5545.48,"text":"這個部分是一定 我覺得一定會再回答"},{"start":5545.48,"end":5548.48,"text":"因為我們看到是無自有住宅者嘛 對不對"},{"start":5548.48,"end":5551.48,"text":"但是這部分我們做精準的一些協助"},{"start":5551.48,"end":5553.48,"text":"但是現在我們就要問一個問題"},{"start":5553.48,"end":5555.48,"text":"就是說如果一個人曾經買房"},{"start":5555.48,"end":5556.48,"text":"而且賣房也在獲利"},{"start":5556.48,"end":5560.48,"text":"如今他在生代時他名下沒有房屋"},{"start":5560.48,"end":5562.48,"text":"那他也是當時可以有住嘛"},{"start":5562.48,"end":5565.48,"text":"那現行的規定當中還是可以申請清安對不對"},{"start":5567.21,"end":5570.21,"text":"他曾經買的那個房子是用清安來帶的話賣掉"},{"start":5570.21,"end":5571.21,"text":"那這就不行了"},{"start":5571.21,"end":5572.21,"text":"不是不是 我不是問這個"},{"start":5572.21,"end":5574.21,"text":"他說他曾經買過房子"},{"start":5574.21,"end":5575.21,"text":"他曾經買"},{"start":5575.21,"end":5576.21,"text":"沒有"},{"start":5576.21,"end":5579.21,"text":"對啊 我沒有說這樣你憑在多家條件嘛 對不對"},{"start":5579.21,"end":5580.21,"text":"是不是可以買"},{"start":5581.74,"end":5584.74,"text":"他曾經買他以前買那個房子"},{"start":5584.74,"end":5586.74,"text":"沒有用清安貸款的協助的話"},{"start":5586.74,"end":5588.74,"text":"那他把他這個房子賣掉"},{"start":5588.74,"end":5589.74,"text":"他現在重新買一件"},{"start":5589.74,"end":5591.74,"text":"而他現在明明就是他名下"},{"start":5591.74,"end":5594.74,"text":"本人配偶未成年子女都沒有房子"},{"start":5594.74,"end":5596.74,"text":"那麼他要申請清安的話"},{"start":5596.74,"end":5600.74,"text":"那就要看我們今天3.0所列的一個條件是不是符合"},{"start":5600.74,"end":5601.74,"text":"對 好 因為本人配偶"},{"start":5601.74,"end":5605.74,"text":"但是問題是他如果他的村長有呢這部分"},{"start":5605.74,"end":5606.74,"text":"就其實沒有討到這裡嘛"},{"start":5606.74,"end":5607.74,"text":"重點在於就是說"},{"start":5607.74,"end":5609.74,"text":"這就是制度上面的漏洞嘛"},{"start":5609.74,"end":5613.74,"text":"因為清安3.0認定的不是真正的手購"},{"start":5613.74,"end":5615.74,"text":"而是只是目前無房"},{"start":5617.45,"end":5620.45,"text":"那曾經買賣過房地產的甚至還有獲利者呢"},{"start":5620.45,"end":5622.45,"text":"怎麼還能夠算是手購呢"},{"start":5622.45,"end":5623.45,"text":"還能夠申請清安3.0"},{"start":5623.45,"end":5626.45,"text":"這真正的目的是要幫助行政院的目的"},{"start":5626.45,"end":5629.45,"text":"應該都是要幫助到手購者這個部分"},{"start":5629.45,"end":5631.45,"text":"所以甚至還可以排擠資源啦"},{"start":5631.45,"end":5635.45,"text":"所以想請財政部再考慮說這部分"},{"start":5635.45,"end":5637.45,"text":"當然因為馬上就要上路啦"},{"start":5637.45,"end":5640.45,"text":"是不是說要未來再考慮說"},{"start":5640.45,"end":5641.45,"text":"又等一下也要問說"},{"start":5641.45,"end":5643.45,"text":"你的滾動式的一個檢討"},{"start":5643.45,"end":5645.45,"text":"大概什麼時候要再做滾動式的檢討出現"},{"start":5645.45,"end":5647.45,"text":"那是不是要考慮到說"},{"start":5647.45,"end":5651.45,"text":"要把這種資源留給第一次在購屋的這個親民來做"},{"start":5651.45,"end":5653.45,"text":"那技術上面是可行嗎"},{"start":5655.15,"end":5658.15,"text":"剛剛您提我們現在就是清安就是一生只能帶一次"},{"start":5658.15,"end":5660.15,"text":"他之前也沒有用過清安"},{"start":5660.15,"end":5663.15,"text":"那他今天可能因為職業的變動"},{"start":5663.15,"end":5665.15,"text":"他可能從北部調到南部"},{"start":5665.15,"end":5667.15,"text":"然後他把台北房子賣掉去"},{"start":5667.15,"end":5669.15,"text":"那我們也跟他說那你就因為你有獲利"},{"start":5669.15,"end":5674.15,"text":"是不是獲利其實也你怎麼去我們怎麼如何去追查的問題"},{"start":5674.15,"end":5675.15,"text":"他有該繳的稅也繳了"},{"start":5675.15,"end":5678.15,"text":"那所以我們現在我覺得是可以去檢討一下"},{"start":5678.15,"end":5681.15,"text":"他是沒有自有房屋的人"},{"start":5681.15,"end":5682.15,"text":"我們現在去協助他"},{"start":5682.15,"end":5684.15,"text":"而且他也只能試用一次"},{"start":5685.69,"end":5687.69,"text":"這是可能的情形"},{"start":5687.69,"end":5689.69,"text":"但是更多的情況可能不是這種情形"},{"start":5689.69,"end":5692.69,"text":"我覺得適度的應該做技術性的把這樣的案子要做驅噴"},{"start":5692.69,"end":5694.69,"text":"應該是要做滾動式的就是說"},{"start":5694.69,"end":5696.69,"text":"尤其把這種技術性的問題要把他討論到說"},{"start":5696.69,"end":5699.69,"text":"如果真的是有南到北的這個差異性要把他拿出來"},{"start":5699.69,"end":5702.69,"text":"這部分我想說應該我們可以透過其他方式"},{"start":5702.69,"end":5706.69,"text":"財政部就說這邊要把這種區別出來要做個報告"},{"start":5706.69,"end":5709.69,"text":"上次應該在未來的檢討當中要出現"},{"start":5709.69,"end":5711.69,"text":"第二個我們在看到的是還有一個問題是說"},{"start":5711.69,"end":5713.69,"text":"你雖然已經有排富了"},{"start":5713.69,"end":5716.69,"text":"但是在排富這邊有看到有個缺口是在於說"},{"start":5716.69,"end":5720.69,"text":"以過去在租金補貼跟社宅的資格補貼這部分"},{"start":5720.69,"end":5722.69,"text":"都是用家戶所得"},{"start":5722.69,"end":5725.69,"text":"那這一次的部分是針對的是"},{"start":5725.69,"end":5727.69,"text":"針對是個人的部分就看到"},{"start":5727.69,"end":5730.69,"text":"可是個人部分如果他是有夫婦的Couple的"},{"start":5730.69,"end":5732.69,"text":"他有一個是兩個"},{"start":5732.69,"end":5735.69,"text":"他一個190萬他是另外兩個190萬的"},{"start":5735.69,"end":5737.69,"text":"那實際的話就是北半"},{"start":5737.69,"end":5739.69,"text":"就是他還是有這個資格"},{"start":5739.69,"end":5740.69,"text":"但是他已經告訴我了"},{"start":5740.69,"end":5742.69,"text":"甚至說你們有沒有考慮到他說"},{"start":5742.69,"end":5746.69,"text":"他的資產就是他資產的部分"},{"start":5746.69,"end":5750.69,"text":"他可能會是說他有的是有其他的這種"},{"start":5752.63,"end":5754.63,"text":"其他的這種這種資產"},{"start":5754.63,"end":5758.63,"text":"那個資產報告可以看到說他可能又有"},{"start":5758.63,"end":5759.63,"text":"因為你只看到是新的"},{"start":5759.63,"end":5763.63,"text":"而不是看到他還有在其他的這個叫做"},{"start":5765.97,"end":5769.97,"text":"就是那個一粒滾粒的這種高所得的資產"},{"start":5769.97,"end":5770.97,"text":"這部分的話"},{"start":5770.97,"end":5772.97,"text":"那這樣你們沒有把他算進去"},{"start":5772.97,"end":5774.97,"text":"你是不是應該考慮到說用家戶所得"},{"start":5774.97,"end":5776.97,"text":"而且是應該考慮到說"},{"start":5776.97,"end":5779.97,"text":"也要把他的資產的部分也把他放進來"},{"start":5780.87,"end":5783.87,"text":"其實我們這個3.0在推出之前"},{"start":5783.87,"end":5785.87,"text":"也經過多次的討論"},{"start":5785.87,"end":5787.87,"text":"跨部會的多討論"},{"start":5787.87,"end":5789.87,"text":"那究竟要用個人或家戶"},{"start":5789.87,"end":5793.87,"text":"其實如果用家戶的話可能會走入所謂的婚姻懲罰"},{"start":5793.87,"end":5796.87,"text":"如果兩夫妻加起來超過200萬"},{"start":5796.87,"end":5797.87,"text":"那可能就不適用"},{"start":5797.87,"end":5799.87,"text":"我想這不是我們原來政策的一個目的"},{"start":5799.87,"end":5804.87,"text":"所以我們用各借款人的個人的所得不超過200萬"},{"start":5804.87,"end":5806.87,"text":"我想這個部分我們當時都有討論過"},{"start":5806.87,"end":5808.87,"text":"那至於要不要把其他資產"},{"start":5808.87,"end":5810.87,"text":"其他資產的價值"},{"start":5810.87,"end":5812.87,"text":"他是波動性很大的"},{"start":5812.87,"end":5814.87,"text":"而且是變動性也比較快"},{"start":5814.87,"end":5818.87,"text":"所以這個部分並沒有把他記錄到這個裡面去計算"},{"start":5818.87,"end":5824.87,"text":"可是部長你這邊對於申請租屋的補助"},{"start":5824.87,"end":5827.87,"text":"或者是社宅的條件你們都可以這樣做的話"},{"start":5827.87,"end":5830.87,"text":"那為什麼在你要對購屋的部分"},{"start":5830.87,"end":5834.87,"text":"你們要付租的資金的成本是更多的"},{"start":5834.87,"end":5835.87,"text":"你們竟然沒有這樣做"},{"start":5835.87,"end":5837.87,"text":"這部分不符合比例原則"},{"start":5837.87,"end":5839.87,"text":"部長你用這個理由來說服本席"},{"start":5839.87,"end":5840.87,"text":"我覺得是不接受的"},{"start":5840.87,"end":5842.87,"text":"一般上路大眾也不能接受的"},{"start":5844.62,"end":5847.62,"text":"我覺得這部分因為造成這個結果是怎麼樣"},{"start":5847.62,"end":5849.62,"text":"實質的應該是在幫助的是"},{"start":5849.62,"end":5850.62,"text":"應該是這樣"},{"start":5850.62,"end":5852.62,"text":"因為你這個情況的話會讓"},{"start":5852.62,"end":5854.62,"text":"好像是要幫助的是有"},{"start":5854.93,"end":5857.93,"text":"賣方的有房地產者他容易去脫售他的房子"},{"start":5857.93,"end":5859.93,"text":"或是說容易去這個部分"},{"start":5859.93,"end":5861.93,"text":"這是不是順應到這個意思"},{"start":5861.93,"end":5863.93,"text":"所以這部分我覺得應該就考慮到"},{"start":5863.93,"end":5865.93,"text":"這部分應該就考慮到說"},{"start":5865.93,"end":5868.93,"text":"應該把他的所得跟家戶的所得跟資產"},{"start":5868.93,"end":5869.93,"text":"應該整體算進去"},{"start":5869.93,"end":5872.93,"text":"但是非常不符合這樣的一個比例"},{"start":5873.7,"end":5874.7,"text":"是不是可以考慮進去"},{"start":5874.7,"end":5876.7,"text":"委員我還是要再說一遍"},{"start":5876.7,"end":5880.7,"text":"清安政策的目的就是協助沒有自有住宅的"},{"start":5880.7,"end":5882.7,"text":"民眾購買房屋自住使用"},{"start":5882.7,"end":5885.7,"text":"我想這個部分我們非常明確是這樣的一個前提"},{"start":5885.7,"end":5888.7,"text":"至於您講的租屋補貼或購買房屋"},{"start":5888.7,"end":5891.7,"text":"租屋跟購買房屋這兩者基本上是"},{"start":5891.7,"end":5894.7,"text":"本身也是不相同的一個經濟行為"},{"start":5896.71,"end":5901.71,"text":"這不是不同的經濟行為都在取得讓他有房租的錯"},{"start":5901.71,"end":5904.71,"text":"我這部分我希望說這個部分"},{"start":5904.71,"end":5907.71,"text":"財政部您必須要好好去針對這個問題"},{"start":5907.71,"end":5908.71,"text":"要去做個解決"},{"start":5908.71,"end":5911.71,"text":"就是要去理解說這事實上都有連動性的"},{"start":5911.71,"end":5913.71,"text":"因為你們所付出的在家是更多的"},{"start":5913.71,"end":5914.71,"text":"而且是國家的補貼"},{"start":5914.71,"end":5916.71,"text":"那希望我們再繼續往下看這部分"},{"start":5916.71,"end":5920.71,"text":"另外的一個情況是在於說對育兒的部分"},{"start":5920.71,"end":5923.71,"text":"婚姻家庭這次也是一個有幫助的部分"},{"start":5923.71,"end":5926.71,"text":"但是他所涉及到的是這個"},{"start":5926.71,"end":5930.71,"text":"這個所涉及到的金額的部分"},{"start":5930.71,"end":5933.71,"text":"就是在於說婚姻的部分"},{"start":5933.71,"end":5936.71,"text":"他的話是有新婚的那就一千二"},{"start":5936.71,"end":5938.71,"text":"那如果還育兒就不到一千五"},{"start":5938.71,"end":5942.71,"text":"可是這個對於需要在"},{"start":5942.71,"end":5944.71,"text":"需要在他的這個育兒出息"},{"start":5944.71,"end":5947.71,"text":"要去降低每月還款壓力的者"},{"start":5947.71,"end":5950.71,"text":"這個事實上是沒有辦法去幫助的"},{"start":5950.71,"end":5951.71,"text":"尤其是我們要知道"},{"start":5951.71,"end":5953.71,"text":"他那個一千二一千五的最重要是"},{"start":5953.71,"end":5955.71,"text":"誰要去決定他的一個"},{"start":5957.56,"end":5960.56,"text":"能夠聲帶的額度是銀行還是在財政部"},{"start":5961.99,"end":5963.99,"text":"這個貸款都是到銀行去辦"},{"start":5963.99,"end":5966.99,"text":"對銀行必須要根據金融的法規"},{"start":5966.99,"end":5969.99,"text":"5P原則來審核貸款案件"},{"start":5969.99,"end":5970.99,"text":"那你這樣講來說"},{"start":5970.99,"end":5973.99,"text":"他如果能夠聲帶到高的這個額度的話"},{"start":5973.99,"end":5975.99,"text":"那是不是表示他是高所得的者"},{"start":5975.99,"end":5977.99,"text":"是吧相對應的對吧"},{"start":5977.99,"end":5979.99,"text":"不是我覺得這個部分我們在貸款的時候"},{"start":5979.99,"end":5982.99,"text":"一定會我們要求銀行在貸款的時候"},{"start":5982.99,"end":5985.99,"text":"民眾來聲帶的時候都要計算他每個月"},{"start":5985.99,"end":5988.99,"text":"對所以他基本上能夠還款的金額"},{"start":5988.99,"end":5991.99,"text":"還款的金額導致所得的月高他才可能有"},{"start":5991.99,"end":5994.99,"text":"他才可能會聲帶到更大的金額嘛"},{"start":5994.99,"end":5996.99,"text":"如果是這樣的話就是說"},{"start":5996.99,"end":5998.99,"text":"你可以發現到他的效果呢"},{"start":5998.99,"end":6000.99,"text":"就是讓更多的"},{"start":6001.73,"end":6004.73,"text":"更多的房子是用高價額的話去做申購"},{"start":6004.73,"end":6008.73,"text":"去拿到但是對於婚育最需要的婚育家庭"},{"start":6008.73,"end":6009.73,"text":"他在育兒出席的時候"},{"start":6009.73,"end":6013.73,"text":"他的每月的還款壓力並沒有去有什麼幫助"},{"start":6013.73,"end":6015.73,"text":"而且這邊所看到的是呢"},{"start":6015.73,"end":6017.73,"text":"我們變成說這個低利息的補貼"},{"start":6017.73,"end":6019.73,"text":"是由政府的部分去提供"},{"start":6019.73,"end":6023.73,"text":"那政府的補貼呢是從哪裡拿出來這個補貼的金額"},{"start":6024.61,"end":6025.61,"text":"是從?"},{"start":6025.61,"end":6028.61,"text":"利息的部分有半碼是由我們公股銀行自行吸收"},{"start":6028.61,"end":6032.61,"text":"1.5碼是由住宅基金來做補助的"},{"start":6032.61,"end":6034.61,"text":"對但是這些其實都是"},{"start":6034.61,"end":6039.61,"text":"尤其是社會內政部的住宅基金都是我們公共的資源"},{"start":6039.61,"end":6041.61,"text":"你這些部分的話"},{"start":6041.61,"end":6044.61,"text":"那請問大概我們如果說以1130來講"},{"start":6044.61,"end":6046.61,"text":"我到底多了多少的這個資金呢?"},{"start":6046.61,"end":6048.61,"text":"你知道嗎?"},{"start":6048.61,"end":6050.61,"text":"住宅基金我想是屬於內政部主管"},{"start":6050.61,"end":6052.61,"text":"所以因為就是都是政府資源"},{"start":6052.61,"end":6054.61,"text":"所以我們的補助對象必須要是精準"},{"start":6054.61,"end":6056.61,"text":"因此在於購買房屋總價上面"},{"start":6056.61,"end":6058.61,"text":"也有一個上限的一個限制"},{"start":6058.61,"end":6060.61,"text":"對高資與高所得"},{"start":6060.61,"end":6062.61,"text":"部長你如果是婚姻"},{"start":6062.61,"end":6064.61,"text":"因為你這是增加從1000到1500"},{"start":6064.61,"end":6067.61,"text":"都都是針對婚姻的部分"},{"start":6067.61,"end":6068.61,"text":"那這邊的增加部分"},{"start":6068.61,"end":6070.61,"text":"但是你最重要的是"},{"start":6070.61,"end":6072.61,"text":"他還是針對到高所得的部分"},{"start":6072.61,"end":6074.61,"text":"所以我在想的是要跟"},{"start":6074.64,"end":6076.64,"text":"部長你要強調的是"},{"start":6076.64,"end":6078.64,"text":"這個部分所造成的效果"},{"start":6078.64,"end":6080.64,"text":"是會造成高所得的人"},{"start":6080.64,"end":6082.64,"text":"並沒有正在幫助到婚姻的家庭"},{"start":6082.64,"end":6084.64,"text":"所以這邊應該要說好好的研議"},{"start":6084.64,"end":6086.64,"text":"我在想說是不是可以"},{"start":6086.64,"end":6088.64,"text":"有一個我剛剛提出來那三點的問題"},{"start":6088.64,"end":6090.64,"text":"是不是可以提出來一個說"},{"start":6090.64,"end":6092.64,"text":"你們會做研議的報告部分"},{"start":6092.64,"end":6094.64,"text":"好謝謝喔謝謝子徐"},{"start":6094.64,"end":6096.64,"text":"那你提出書面補充好了"},{"start":6096.64,"end":6098.64,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":6100.01,"end":6102.01,"text":"好謝謝劉書斌委員的質詢"},{"start":6102.01,"end":6104.01,"text":"下一位請李坤城委員質詢"},{"start":6110.55,"end":6112.55,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":6112.55,"end":6114.55,"text":"我們請財政部"},{"start":6114.55,"end":6116.55,"text":"請財政部莊部長"},{"start":6121.22,"end":6123.22,"text":"部長好"},{"start":6123.22,"end":6125.22,"text":"這個新清安3.0的政策"},{"start":6125.22,"end":6127.22,"text":"是8月1號開始上路嗎"},{"start":6129.23,"end":6131.23,"text":"是的"},{"start":6131.23,"end":6133.23,"text":"然後呢那其實我覺得裡面"},{"start":6133.23,"end":6135.23,"text":"對於這個新婚夫妻來講"},{"start":6135.23,"end":6137.23,"text":"其實我也很關心"},{"start":6137.23,"end":6139.23,"text":"就是說你們對於婚育的家庭"},{"start":6139.23,"end":6141.23,"text":"都與這個提高補助"},{"start":6141.23,"end":6143.23,"text":"你如果是在這個"},{"start":6143.23,"end":6145.23,"text":"申請日的兩年內"},{"start":6145.23,"end":6147.23,"text":"完成婚姻登記的話"},{"start":6147.23,"end":6149.23,"text":"最高可以帶到1200萬"},{"start":6149.23,"end":6151.23,"text":"這鼓勵新婚"},{"start":6151.23,"end":6153.23,"text":"那如果這個有未成年子女的話"},{"start":6153.23,"end":6155.23,"text":"就可以提高到1500萬"},{"start":6155.23,"end":6157.23,"text":"這鼓勵生小孩啦"},{"start":6157.23,"end":6159.23,"text":"那有一些問題"},{"start":6159.23,"end":6161.23,"text":"再請教一下部長"},{"start":6161.23,"end":6163.23,"text":"那現在就是說"},{"start":6163.23,"end":6165.23,"text":"未成年的子女"},{"start":6165.23,"end":6167.23,"text":"有1500萬"},{"start":6167.23,"end":6169.23,"text":"那包含就是說這個懷孕嘛"},{"start":6169.23,"end":6171.23,"text":"是不是你只有領有這個媽媽手冊"},{"start":6171.23,"end":6173.23,"text":"就是說那也"},{"start":6173.23,"end":6175.23,"text":"適用這個屬於這個未成年子女的家庭"},{"start":6175.23,"end":6177.23,"text":"對是的"},{"start":6177.23,"end":6179.23,"text":"他是有媽媽手冊"},{"start":6179.23,"end":6181.23,"text":"有媽媽手冊就可以嘛"},{"start":6181.23,"end":6183.23,"text":"就是懷孕領有媽媽手冊"},{"start":6183.23,"end":6185.23,"text":"也可以這個提高"},{"start":6185.23,"end":6187.23,"text":"所以他在這個年代的時候就有這樣懷孕了"},{"start":6187.23,"end":6189.23,"text":"對對對"},{"start":6189.23,"end":6191.23,"text":"就是也可以適用到這個1500萬的額度嘛"},{"start":6191.23,"end":6193.23,"text":"是不是"},{"start":6193.23,"end":6195.23,"text":"那請教一下"},{"start":6195.23,"end":6197.23,"text":"就是說我們當然是希望說"},{"start":6197.23,"end":6199.23,"text":"結婚之後就是"},{"start":6199.23,"end":6201.23,"text":"從此過著幸福美滿快樂的生活"},{"start":6201.23,"end":6203.23,"text":"又生小孩"},{"start":6203.23,"end":6205.23,"text":"那萬一啦"},{"start":6205.23,"end":6207.23,"text":"如果說這個"},{"start":6207.23,"end":6209.23,"text":"我們生帶了這個"},{"start":6209.23,"end":6211.23,"text":"新鮮3.0之後"},{"start":6211.23,"end":6213.23,"text":"那如果萬一不幸夫妻"},{"start":6213.23,"end":6215.23,"text":"那你們這個要怎麼算"},{"start":6215.23,"end":6217.23,"text":"你們這個額度會墜回來嗎"},{"start":6217.23,"end":6219.23,"text":"利息會墜回來嗎"},{"start":6219.14,"end":6221.14,"text":"我想是這樣子"},{"start":6221.14,"end":6223.14,"text":"因為他能夠帶到假設說新婚夫妻"},{"start":6223.14,"end":6225.14,"text":"新婚夫妻先200萬嘛"},{"start":6225.14,"end":6227.14,"text":"假設他能到1200萬"},{"start":6227.14,"end":6229.14,"text":"表示他這個房子的貸款"},{"start":6229.14,"end":6231.14,"text":"因為我們的貸款額度還是不能超過"},{"start":6231.14,"end":6233.14,"text":"房屋的8成"},{"start":6233.14,"end":6235.14,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":6235.14,"end":6237.14,"text":"表示說這個房子的擔保品"},{"start":6237.14,"end":6239.14,"text":"足以去讓他帶給他1200萬"},{"start":6239.14,"end":6241.14,"text":"這個還是要有個前提"},{"start":6241.14,"end":6243.14,"text":"不是只有你有結婚就可以帶到1200萬"},{"start":6243.14,"end":6245.14,"text":"這是增加的"},{"start":6245.14,"end":6247.14,"text":"假設他帶了1200萬"},{"start":6247.14,"end":6249.14,"text":"那如果說6年裡面"},{"start":6249.14,"end":6251.14,"text":"這個6年有利息補貼情況"},{"start":6251.14,"end":6253.14,"text":"如果婚姻發生變化"},{"start":6253.14,"end":6255.14,"text":"譬如說他就離婚的話"},{"start":6255.14,"end":6257.14,"text":"那我們也只會就那200萬的部分"},{"start":6257.14,"end":6259.14,"text":"從他婚姻關係消滅起"},{"start":6259.14,"end":6261.14,"text":"然後停止他這個利息的補貼"},{"start":6261.14,"end":6263.14,"text":"就是多的那200萬"},{"start":6263.14,"end":6265.14,"text":"就是這200萬"},{"start":6265.14,"end":6267.14,"text":"你說是因為我們是3加3嘛"},{"start":6267.14,"end":6269.14,"text":"6年利息補貼"},{"start":6269.14,"end":6271.14,"text":"那6年以後再離婚的話"},{"start":6271.14,"end":6273.14,"text":"那你如果超過6年之後離婚"},{"start":6273.14,"end":6275.14,"text":"那6年以後"},{"start":6275.14,"end":6277.14,"text":"沒有關係的啊"},{"start":6277.14,"end":6279.14,"text":"所以沒有受到影響"},{"start":6279.14,"end":6281.14,"text":"所以說如果只有6年之後再離婚的話"},{"start":6281.14,"end":6283.14,"text":"前面這6年的利息補貼"},{"start":6283.14,"end":6285.14,"text":"不會受到影響就對了"},{"start":6285.14,"end":6287.14,"text":"那時候他有婚姻關係的"},{"start":6287.14,"end":6289.14,"text":"額度也不會受到影響"},{"start":6289.14,"end":6291.14,"text":"不會"},{"start":6291.14,"end":6293.14,"text":"那如果離婚之後"},{"start":6293.14,"end":6295.14,"text":"那沒有房子的那一方"},{"start":6295.14,"end":6297.14,"text":"還可以再去申請"},{"start":6298.07,"end":6300.07,"text":"離婚那當然他就是"},{"start":6300.07,"end":6302.07,"text":"我們在申請的時候"},{"start":6302.07,"end":6304.07,"text":"必須他本人跟配偶還有未成年之一"},{"start":6304.07,"end":6306.07,"text":"離婚之後嘛"},{"start":6306.07,"end":6308.07,"text":"他就變成一個單身了嘛"},{"start":6308.07,"end":6310.07,"text":"或是單身或另外新婚"},{"start":6310.07,"end":6312.07,"text":"那就是用1000萬的額度再去申請就對了"},{"start":6312.07,"end":6314.07,"text":"但是這個人本身要沒有帶過"},{"start":6314.07,"end":6316.07,"text":"心情安喔"},{"start":6316.07,"end":6318.07,"text":"如果今天"},{"start":6318.07,"end":6320.07,"text":"如果今天他是這個"},{"start":6320.07,"end":6322.07,"text":"沒有帶過心情安"},{"start":6322.07,"end":6324.07,"text":"然後他離婚了"},{"start":6324.07,"end":6326.07,"text":"然後他可以繼續再用這個新鮮的3.0"},{"start":6326.07,"end":6328.07,"text":"那他就是單獨的一個個人嘛"},{"start":6328.07,"end":6330.07,"text":"好這個講說是這個沒有小孩的狀態"},{"start":6330.07,"end":6332.07,"text":"如果有小孩的狀態咧"},{"start":6332.07,"end":6334.07,"text":"有小孩狀態我們是講是說"},{"start":6334.07,"end":6336.07,"text":"他遇有未成年子女"},{"start":6336.07,"end":6338.07,"text":"遇有未成年子女如果這房子裡面"},{"start":6338.07,"end":6340.07,"text":"依然是有為這位"},{"start":6340.07,"end":6342.07,"text":"屋主來"},{"start":6342.07,"end":6344.07,"text":"撫育未成年子女"},{"start":6344.07,"end":6346.07,"text":"那當然他還是可以適用原來的未成年子女"},{"start":6346.07,"end":6348.07,"text":"的相關的貸款的條件"},{"start":6348.07,"end":6350.07,"text":"那現在"},{"start":6350.07,"end":6352.07,"text":"會不會說就是說"},{"start":6352.07,"end":6354.07,"text":"房子的所有人"},{"start":6354.07,"end":6356.07,"text":"跟孩子的接惑人是不同人"},{"start":6356.86,"end":6358.86,"text":"那當然我們不能預期他們"},{"start":6358.86,"end":6360.86,"text":"未來的經驗"},{"start":6360.86,"end":6362.86,"text":"比如說"},{"start":6362.86,"end":6364.86,"text":"A跟B"},{"start":6364.86,"end":6366.86,"text":"A他是這個房子的所有人"},{"start":6366.86,"end":6368.86,"text":"但是B他擁有這個監護權"},{"start":6368.86,"end":6370.86,"text":"那是B因為他有孩子的監護權"},{"start":6370.86,"end":6372.86,"text":"那所以他可以"},{"start":6372.86,"end":6374.86,"text":"有這個心情安的這個貸款的這個優惠"},{"start":6374.86,"end":6376.86,"text":"但是他沒有法治"},{"start":6376.86,"end":6378.86,"text":"對相關的細節"},{"start":6378.86,"end":6380.86,"text":"我想因為我們還是會"},{"start":6380.86,"end":6382.86,"text":"做詳細明確的一個問答集"},{"start":6382.86,"end":6384.86,"text":"來做回應"},{"start":6384.86,"end":6386.86,"text":"不是啦我現在問你"},{"start":6386.86,"end":6388.86,"text":"你說遇到這種情況"},{"start":6388.86,"end":6390.86,"text":"我說遇到這種情況怎麼處理"},{"start":6390.86,"end":6392.86,"text":"就是說你監護權跟你這個房子"},{"start":6392.86,"end":6394.86,"text":"所有權人是不一樣的"},{"start":6394.86,"end":6396.86,"text":"不一致的話那當然我們"},{"start":6396.86,"end":6398.86,"text":"因為原來我們1500就是因為"},{"start":6398.86,"end":6400.86,"text":"家庭居住的需求又"},{"start":6400.86,"end":6402.86,"text":"有未成年子女所以你在面積上"},{"start":6402.86,"end":6404.86,"text":"可能需要空間上"},{"start":6404.86,"end":6406.86,"text":"對我知道這個我都是鼓勵"},{"start":6406.86,"end":6408.86,"text":"我是說萬一啦因為"},{"start":6408.86,"end":6410.86,"text":"總是會遇到這些問題嘛"},{"start":6410.86,"end":6412.86,"text":"大家也會有這個疑問嘛"},{"start":6412.86,"end":6414.86,"text":"我們會在問答集裡面未來會做詳細的一些規範"},{"start":6414.86,"end":6416.86,"text":"所以你現在還沒有一個答案就對了"},{"start":6416.86,"end":6418.86,"text":"當然基本的原則是不變的啊"},{"start":6418.86,"end":6420.86,"text":"所以我剛才問你遇到這種情況"},{"start":6420.86,"end":6422.86,"text":"就是說你房子的所有人"},{"start":6422.86,"end":6424.86,"text":"跟監護權人如果是不一樣的話"},{"start":6424.86,"end":6426.86,"text":"也就是說這個孩子不歸"},{"start":6426.86,"end":6428.86,"text":"這個房屋主嘛"},{"start":6428.86,"end":6430.86,"text":"房子歸到另外一方去"},{"start":6430.86,"end":6432.86,"text":"那當然就1500萬的部分"},{"start":6432.86,"end":6434.86,"text":"我們只就500萬的部分的利息補貼"},{"start":6434.86,"end":6436.86,"text":"來做一些處理"},{"start":6436.86,"end":6438.86,"text":"所以就是說我"},{"start":6438.86,"end":6440.86,"text":"比如說我是屋主用我的名字買的"},{"start":6440.86,"end":6442.86,"text":"但是我沒有搶到這個孩子的監護權"},{"start":6442.86,"end":6444.86,"text":"那所以說變成說"},{"start":6444.86,"end":6446.86,"text":"我這個利息補貼就享受不到就對了"},{"start":6446.86,"end":6448.86,"text":"對但是從那個發生變化以後啦"},{"start":6448.86,"end":6450.86,"text":"對啊"},{"start":6450.86,"end":6452.86,"text":"那所以說"},{"start":6455.58,"end":6457.58,"text":"就是會遇到這種情況啦"},{"start":6457.58,"end":6459.58,"text":"就是說你不一定說你的"},{"start":6459.58,"end":6461.58,"text":"你用你的名字去"},{"start":6461.58,"end":6463.58,"text":"聲帶心情安但是你最後沒有"},{"start":6463.58,"end":6465.58,"text":"沒有這個監護權"},{"start":6465.58,"end":6467.58,"text":"你們是以有沒有監護權"},{"start":6467.58,"end":6469.58,"text":"有沒有監護權來判定說"},{"start":6469.58,"end":6471.58,"text":"有沒有做這個利息補貼就對了"},{"start":6471.58,"end":6473.58,"text":"對對對是的"},{"start":6473.58,"end":6475.58,"text":"那所以就是說"},{"start":6475.58,"end":6477.58,"text":"萬一遇到這種事情的話你還"},{"start":6477.58,"end":6479.58,"text":"你除了這個還要去搶"},{"start":6479.58,"end":6481.58,"text":"這個孩子的監護權你才有辦法"},{"start":6481.58,"end":6483.58,"text":"有這個利息的補貼"},{"start":6483.58,"end":6485.58,"text":"那個設理我想這種婚姻發生這種情況"},{"start":6485.58,"end":6487.58,"text":"雙方都要"},{"start":6487.58,"end":6489.58,"text":"沒有就是說我們要把任何的問題都先想清楚"},{"start":6489.58,"end":6491.58,"text":"相關的條款他們"},{"start":6491.58,"end":6493.58,"text":"之間互相的協議都應該會去考慮"},{"start":6493.58,"end":6495.58,"text":"那你們那個分配"},{"start":6495.58,"end":6497.58,"text":"Q&A是哪個時候會出來"},{"start":6497.58,"end":6499.58,"text":"就是說一定會遇到這一種"},{"start":6499.58,"end":6501.58,"text":"我們已經有在籌備然後很快就會出來"},{"start":6501.58,"end":6503.58,"text":"8月1號不是要上路了嗎"},{"start":6503.58,"end":6505.58,"text":"對可以啊也可以現在上"},{"start":6505.58,"end":6507.58,"text":"那可以滾動的也不斷的去新增啊"},{"start":6507.58,"end":6509.58,"text":"或做一些調整都會的"},{"start":6509.58,"end":6511.58,"text":"我們會隨時做檢討調整這樣子"},{"start":6511.58,"end":6513.58,"text":"好那你們現在"},{"start":6513.58,"end":6515.58,"text":"對於這個貸款"},{"start":6515.58,"end":6517.58,"text":"房屋總價上限有這個"},{"start":6517.58,"end":6519.58,"text":"上限的一個規定就是說你超過那上限"},{"start":6519.58,"end":6521.58,"text":"我就是不讓你貸嘛對不對"},{"start":6521.58,"end":6523.58,"text":"台北市3500萬"},{"start":6523.58,"end":6525.58,"text":"新北市新竹縣市"},{"start":6525.58,"end":6527.58,"text":"2500萬其他縣市就是2000萬"},{"start":6527.58,"end":6529.58,"text":"我只要房子總價超過了"},{"start":6529.58,"end":6531.58,"text":"我就不會讓你貸嘛對不對"},{"start":6532.14,"end":6534.14,"text":"好那所以"},{"start":6534.14,"end":6536.14,"text":"訂這個價格是"},{"start":6536.14,"end":6538.14,"text":"是有引導建商"},{"start":6538.14,"end":6540.14,"text":"修正價格的用意在嗎"},{"start":6540.14,"end":6542.14,"text":"就是說你房子不要超過這個上限"},{"start":6542.14,"end":6544.14,"text":"如果超過這個上限"},{"start":6544.14,"end":6546.14,"text":"你就沒辦法用到這個新青愛"},{"start":6546.14,"end":6548.14,"text":"有這個用意在嗎"},{"start":6548.14,"end":6550.14,"text":"我主要這樣的目的是為了讓就是說"},{"start":6550.14,"end":6552.14,"text":"你有能力去買那麼高"},{"start":6552.14,"end":6554.14,"text":"那個價錢的話那你表示你是一個"},{"start":6554.14,"end":6556.14,"text":"高財力的高所得高資歷者"},{"start":6556.14,"end":6558.14,"text":"那就不是政府要優先補助的"},{"start":6558.14,"end":6560.14,"text":"一些對優先協助的對象"},{"start":6560.14,"end":6562.14,"text":"所以我們不需要有一個"},{"start":6562.14,"end":6564.14,"text":"必須要有一個限制也就是"},{"start":6564.14,"end":6566.14,"text":"這個就是在我們2.0的時候"},{"start":6566.14,"end":6568.14,"text":"社會有這樣的一些反應"},{"start":6568.14,"end":6570.14,"text":"所以我們這次就訂這個"},{"start":6570.14,"end":6572.14,"text":"那訂這個也是根據內政部相關的"},{"start":6572.14,"end":6574.14,"text":"一些調查的數據裡面"},{"start":6574.14,"end":6576.14,"text":"我們訂出這樣的一個數"},{"start":6576.14,"end":6578.14,"text":"那這個會不會就是說讓建商"},{"start":6578.14,"end":6580.14,"text":"知道說你房子如果超過這個總價"},{"start":6580.14,"end":6582.14,"text":"這個新青愛就聲帶不到"},{"start":6582.14,"end":6584.14,"text":"那有沒有引導房價"},{"start":6584.14,"end":6586.14,"text":"價格修正的這個"},{"start":6586.14,"end":6588.14,"text":"這個用意在"},{"start":6588.14,"end":6590.14,"text":"當然在討論過程當中"},{"start":6590.14,"end":6592.14,"text":"也有這樣的一個討論"},{"start":6592.14,"end":6594.14,"text":"但是我們認為現在的一個房地產的"},{"start":6594.14,"end":6596.14,"text":"一個情況跟在我們"},{"start":6596.14,"end":6598.14,"text":"推出2.0的時候情況已經有不同"},{"start":6598.14,"end":6600.14,"text":"而且信用管制也持續"},{"start":6600.14,"end":6602.14,"text":"央行的信用管制也還在持續當中"},{"start":6602.14,"end":6604.14,"text":"那內政部也會對房地產"},{"start":6604.14,"end":6606.14,"text":"市場的一個情況"},{"start":6606.14,"end":6608.14,"text":"也會關注那必要的時候"},{"start":6608.14,"end":6610.14,"text":"他們也都會加強查核以及跟地方"},{"start":6610.14,"end":6612.14,"text":"政府一起去查辦有沒有炒作"},{"start":6612.14,"end":6614.14,"text":"房市的一個情況都會"},{"start":6614.14,"end":6616.14,"text":"去加強做這方面的管理"},{"start":6616.14,"end":6618.14,"text":"這個部分在我們討論過程當中"},{"start":6618.14,"end":6620.14,"text":"都有提到"},{"start":6620.14,"end":6622.14,"text":"那我再問一下這個問題"},{"start":6622.14,"end":6624.14,"text":"就是說現在這個食品雲"},{"start":6624.14,"end":6626.14,"text":"因為我上次問過卓院長"},{"start":6626.14,"end":6628.14,"text":"他也認為說這個食品雲有很大的空間"},{"start":6628.14,"end":6630.14,"text":"要做討論"},{"start":6630.14,"end":6632.14,"text":"那我們現在有這個財政部的"},{"start":6632.14,"end":6634.14,"text":"電子發票系統"},{"start":6634.14,"end":6636.14,"text":"那我們這個電子發票系統跟這個衛福部的"},{"start":6636.14,"end":6638.14,"text":"這個食品雲"},{"start":6638.66,"end":6640.66,"text":"這個鏈接的情況是怎麼樣"},{"start":6640.66,"end":6642.66,"text":"你說現在"},{"start":6642.66,"end":6644.66,"text":"在市面上就是有一種app"},{"start":6644.66,"end":6646.66,"text":"它自己下載"},{"start":6646.66,"end":6648.66,"text":"然後你平常就是說"},{"start":6648.66,"end":6650.66,"text":"發票可能都有存在那個app裡面"},{"start":6650.66,"end":6652.66,"text":"那你在下載一個"},{"start":6652.66,"end":6654.66,"text":"它的使用有了一個程式"},{"start":6654.66,"end":6656.66,"text":"它可以主動幫你掃出來就是說"},{"start":6656.66,"end":6658.66,"text":"那你到底買了哪些問題"},{"start":6658.66,"end":6660.66,"text":"還可以直接秀出來"},{"start":6660.66,"end":6662.66,"text":"但是目前我們雖然有這個"},{"start":6662.66,"end":6664.66,"text":"電子發票系統"},{"start":6664.66,"end":6666.66,"text":"但是好像沒有這個功能"},{"start":6666.66,"end":6668.66,"text":"這個未來我們財政部這個"},{"start":6668.66,"end":6670.66,"text":"電子發票系統可不可以做像"},{"start":6670.66,"end":6672.66,"text":"類似這種功能就是說"},{"start":6672.66,"end":6674.66,"text":"你們當然是說廠商這部分"},{"start":6674.66,"end":6676.66,"text":"勾勒了出來說到底哪些廠商"},{"start":6676.66,"en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,"text":"那這個部分我想這個部分"},{"start":6930.4,"end":6933.4,"text":"我們也已經在今年初吧"},{"start":6933.4,"end":6935.4,"text":"送到行政院"},{"start":6935.4,"end":6938.4,"text":"那行政院的政委也已經審查了"},{"start":6938.4,"end":6940.4,"text":"那我相信行政院很快就會"},{"start":6940.4,"end":6942.4,"text":"請大院來做審議的"},{"start":6942.4,"end":6944.4,"text":"所以部長我們財政部在4月"},{"start":6944.4,"end":6947.4,"text":"就已經把修法版本送到行政院了"},{"start":6947.4,"end":6948.4,"text":"是的"},{"start":6948.4,"end":6950.4,"text":"但行政院審了3個月到現在還沒進來"},{"start":6950.4,"end":6954.4,"text":"行政院當然也有我們法規會等等"},{"start":6954.4,"end":6955.4,"text":"一起來討論"},{"start":6955.4,"end":6957.4,"text":"已經大概都審議完畢了"},{"start":6957.4,"end":6958.4,"text":"是 部長"},{"start":6958.4,"end":6960.4,"text":"對 審議完畢了"},{"start":6960.4,"end":6962.4,"text":"是 部長我想您講說"},{"start":6962.4,"end":6964.4,"text":"你4月送這一點我就肯定了"},{"start":6964.4,"end":6966.4,"text":"因為我們過去才看到好幾個部會"},{"start":6966.4,"end":6969.4,"text":"對憲法法庭的判決要求說"},{"start":6969.4,"end":6972.4,"text":"我們已經幾年內來提出修法"},{"start":6972.4,"end":6974.4,"text":"一直都到壓縣才提出"},{"start":6974.4,"end":6976.4,"text":"所以我想這個"},{"start":6976.4,"end":6977.4,"text":"我們希望未來"},{"start":6977.4,"end":6981.4,"text":"就有關於憲法法庭的判決要求說"},{"start":6981.4,"end":6983.4,"text":"要做修法的這樣的一個要求"},{"start":6983.4,"end":6987.4,"text":"我們不管是各部會或者行政院"},{"start":6987.4,"end":6988.4,"text":"儘速提出來"},{"start":6988.4,"end":6991.4,"text":"而不是等到我們今天在巡達審查了"},{"start":6991.4,"end":6993.4,"text":"我們都還沒看到院板"},{"start":6993.4,"end":6995.4,"text":"我想這很可惜"},{"start":6995.4,"end":6998.4,"text":"不是讓委員會去等院板進來"},{"start":6998.4,"end":6999.4,"text":"院板先進來"},{"start":6999.4,"end":7001.4,"text":"然後我們委員陸續提出來"},{"start":7001.4,"end":7004.4,"text":"我想這個可能會比較這個"},{"start":7004.4,"end":7005.4,"text":"增加討論的空間"},{"start":7005.4,"end":7007.4,"text":"讓版本修得更好"},{"start":7007.4,"end":7008.4,"text":"好不好"},{"start":7008.4,"end":7009.4,"text":"謝謝委員我想這樣子"},{"start":7009.4,"end":7010.4,"text":"我給個建議"},{"start":7010.4,"end":7011.4,"text":"命案審查可以讓他更周延"},{"start":7011.4,"end":7013.4,"text":"謝謝委員的指教 謝謝"},{"start":7013.4,"end":7015.4,"text":"部長另外我們這個財政部"},{"start":7015.4,"end":7018.4,"text":"去年9月推動網紅課稅"},{"start":7018.4,"end":7020.4,"text":"截至今年6月底"},{"start":7020.4,"end":7024.4,"text":"有1242名網紅需辦理稅籍登記"},{"start":7024.4,"end":7026.4,"text":"累計繳納的營業稅"},{"start":7026.4,"end":7028.4,"text":"有5261萬"},{"start":7028.4,"end":7031.4,"text":"平均每個人大概4.2萬元"},{"start":7031.4,"end":7035.4,"text":"那網紅直播主透過廣告的分潤"},{"start":7035.4,"end":7037.4,"text":"會員的訂閱"},{"start":7037.4,"end":7039.4,"text":"抖內以及業配來取得收入"},{"start":7039.4,"end":7040.4,"text":"依法納稅"},{"start":7040.4,"end":7042.4,"text":"我想這個很好了"},{"start":7042.4,"end":7045.4,"text":"但是有網紅創作者"},{"start":7045.4,"end":7047.4,"text":"他表示他的收入"},{"start":7047.4,"end":7050.4,"text":"真的沒有想像中那麼好賺"},{"start":7050.4,"end":7052.4,"text":"普通的分潤"},{"start":7052.4,"end":7053.4,"text":"就是業配之外"},{"start":7053.4,"end":7057.4,"text":"還要繳納平台的分潤的稅"},{"start":7057.4,"end":7060.4,"text":"而在國外的平台分潤的時候"},{"start":7060.4,"end":7062.4,"text":"就已經有抽成了"},{"start":7062.4,"end":7063.4,"text":"所以對他們來講"},{"start":7063.4,"end":7065.4,"text":"已經先被剝了一層皮"},{"start":7065.4,"end":7067.4,"text":"所以對創作者而言"},{"start":7067.4,"end":7070.4,"text":"同一筆分潤經過平台抽成"},{"start":7070.4,"end":7073.4,"text":"境外預扣以及國內課稅後"},{"start":7073.4,"end":7078.4,"text":"實際所得確實受到多層的減損"},{"start":7078.4,"end":7080.4,"text":"我想請問部長"},{"start":7080.78,"end":7083.78,"text":"在我們現在人手易機的時代"},{"start":7083.78,"end":7085.78,"text":"人人都有機會成為網紅"},{"start":7085.78,"end":7088.78,"text":"而網紅的型態也非常的多"},{"start":7088.78,"end":7091.78,"text":"有遊戲類、歌唱類的直播主"},{"start":7091.78,"end":7096.78,"text":"有帶貨、精品、拍賣類的直播主"},{"start":7096.78,"end":7099.78,"text":"也有影片創作類、YouTube等等"},{"start":7099.78,"end":7102.78,"text":"對於網紅的認定"},{"start":7102.78,"end":7105.78,"text":"財政部是否有擬定一套標準"},{"start":7106.14,"end":7107.14,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":7107.14,"end":7110.14,"text":"我想在對於因為現在整個數位化情況下"},{"start":7110.14,"end":7113.14,"text":"那個商業的行為就越來越變化"},{"start":7113.14,"end":7115.14,"text":"跟傳統都有很大的差異"},{"start":7115.14,"end":7118.14,"text":"尤其是網紅的交易模式"},{"start":7118.14,"end":7121.14,"text":"所以在營業稅跟所得稅的部分"},{"start":7121.14,"end":7125.14,"text":"財政部都已經訂了相關的一些作業規範"},{"start":7125.14,"end":7128.14,"text":"而且給予相關的一些輔導"},{"start":7128.14,"end":7130.14,"text":"至於課稅的過程當中"},{"start":7130.14,"end":7132.14,"text":"當然您剛剛提的就是說"},{"start":7132.14,"end":7134.14,"text":"有一些網紅的一些表達"},{"start":7134.14,"end":7136.14,"text":"我們在營業稅裡面必須也要"},{"start":7136.14,"end":7138.14,"text":"它的銷售額達到營業稅的起點"},{"start":7138.14,"end":7139.14,"text":"才有可能課稅"},{"start":7139.14,"end":7141.14,"text":"在個人所得的部分"},{"start":7141.14,"end":7144.14,"text":"我們是歸類為執行業務的收入"},{"start":7144.14,"end":7146.14,"text":"當然這個部分可以扣掉"},{"start":7146.14,"end":7149.14,"text":"它相關的成本費用都可以算的"},{"start":7149.14,"end":7151.14,"text":"我想這個部分"},{"start":7151.14,"end":7153.14,"text":"在執行的過程當中"},{"start":7153.14,"end":7156.14,"text":"如果有什麼需要我們再做協助的部分"},{"start":7156.14,"end":7159.14,"text":"我想我們的國稅局也很願意協助"},{"start":7159.14,"end":7160.14,"text":"所以部長我剛才問的是說"},{"start":7160.14,"end":7163.14,"text":"對於網紅我們有沒有擬定一套標準"},{"start":7163.14,"end":7166.14,"text":"因為網紅有大網紅有小網紅"},{"start":7166.14,"end":7169.14,"text":"有些人可能他真的收入沒那麼多"},{"start":7169.14,"end":7171.14,"text":"我們有沒有認定的一個標準"},{"start":7171.14,"end":7173.14,"text":"因為大跟小當然我們是看他那個收入的情況"},{"start":7173.14,"end":7176.14,"text":"他的銷售額等等來做區隔"},{"start":7176.14,"end":7178.14,"text":"我想這個部分是不是激增15"},{"start":7178.14,"end":7179.14,"text":"可以由我們署長來做補充"},{"start":7179.14,"end":7180.14,"text":"好請署長來"},{"start":7181.61,"end":7184.61,"text":"委員好我這裡做一點簡單的補充"},{"start":7184.61,"end":7189.61,"text":"因為事實上在網紅課稅有一個作業規範之後"},{"start":7189.61,"end":7192.61,"text":"我們都有交給過各國稅局要進行輔導"},{"start":7192.61,"end":7196.61,"text":"那輔導的期限是在今年的6月30號"},{"start":7196.61,"end":7199.61,"text":"所以這個過程中大概有將近半年多"},{"start":7199.61,"end":7201.61,"text":"所以國稅局都會針對"},{"start":7201.61,"end":7202.61,"text":"不管是大小網紅"},{"start":7202.61,"end":7204.61,"text":"我們用各式各樣的宣導方式"},{"start":7204.61,"end":7207.61,"text":"甚至做個別的課程宣導來做輔導"},{"start":7207.61,"end":7209.61,"text":"我問你一個小問題"},{"start":7211.56,"end":7216.56,"text":"就是有一些網紅他本身就是有營業登記的營業人"},{"start":7217.47,"end":7221.47,"text":"在藉由透過社群媒體他自己又成為網紅"},{"start":7221.47,"end":7227.47,"text":"所以這些經營事讓經營的事業更廣為人知"},{"start":7227.47,"end":7229.47,"text":"所以像這類情況會如何認定"},{"start":7229.47,"end":7232.47,"text":"原本已經在繳納營業稅的營業人"},{"start":7232.47,"end":7238.47,"text":"是否會因為當了網紅而要再被多課網紅稅"},{"start":7238.47,"end":7240.47,"text":"他本身已經繳了營業稅了"},{"start":7240.47,"end":7241.47,"text":"是"},{"start":7242.47,"end":7244.47,"text":"去直播帶賣他的"},{"start":7244.47,"end":7248.47,"text":"營業稅的課稅範圍一定都是有銷售貨物或勞務"},{"start":7248.47,"end":7250.47,"text":"所以不管他今天是不是"},{"start":7250.47,"end":7254.47,"text":"就算他如果已經原來是不是有辦登記的營業人"},{"start":7254.47,"end":7258.47,"text":"那他如果有相關的銷售收入的時候"},{"start":7258.47,"end":7261.47,"text":"就依照規定來繳納營業稅"},{"start":7261.47,"end":7263.47,"text":"不會多繳也不會重複繳"},{"start":7263.47,"end":7265.47,"text":"但是因為他網紅又有賺錢"},{"start":7265.47,"end":7267.47,"text":"還是會扣他的網紅稅"},{"start":7267.47,"end":7269.47,"text":"那是因為他的銷售有增加"},{"start":7269.47,"end":7270.47,"text":"增加"},{"start":7270.47,"end":7271.47,"text":"OK"},{"start":7271.47,"end":7272.47,"text":"好謝謝委員"},{"start":7272.47,"end":7273.47,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7273.47,"end":7275.47,"text":"另外我再最後一題請教部長"},{"start":7275.47,"end":7276.47,"text":"是"},{"start":7276.47,"end":7279.47,"text":"部長我們根據今天最新的這個報導"},{"start":7279.47,"end":7284.47,"text":"美國依據1970年的貿易法122條款對全球客車"},{"start":7284.47,"end":7288.47,"text":"為期150天10%的暫時性關稅"},{"start":7288.47,"end":7291.47,"text":"預計在24號後天就要到期"},{"start":7291.47,"end":7297.47,"text":"那川普政府表明將改用貿易法的301條款"},{"start":7297.47,"end":7302.47,"text":"以為防止強迫勞動產品流通為由"},{"start":7302.47,"end":7307.47,"text":"對這個全球60國徵收10%或15%"},{"start":7307.47,"end":7309.47,"text":"12.5%的關稅"},{"start":7309.47,"end":7310.47,"text":"那請教部長"},{"start":7310.47,"end":7314.47,"text":"對於美方預估對我國課徵要大概是多少"},{"start":7314.47,"end":7316.47,"text":"目前我們有沒有掌握"},{"start":7318.87,"end":7322.87,"text":"委員報告這個部分會由我們經貿辦公室"},{"start":7322.87,"end":7326.87,"text":"跟美方也都一直他們一直持續的在做密切聯繫"},{"start":7326.87,"end":7329.87,"text":"也就是說12條款在7月24號屆期以後"},{"start":7329.87,"end":7333.87,"text":"後續301條款包含那個強迫勞動"},{"start":7333.87,"end":7335.87,"text":"禁止強迫勞動產品的進口以及"},{"start":7335.87,"end":7338.87,"text":"那個什麼產能過剩的這個部分的調查"},{"start":7338.87,"end":7341.87,"text":"那我們也持續我們經貿辦公室也持續"},{"start":7341.87,"end":7343.87,"text":"跟美方在做相關的聯繫"},{"start":7343.87,"end":7345.87,"text":"跟掌握情況"},{"start":7345.87,"end":7347.87,"text":"相關都一定有他們"},{"start":7347.87,"end":7350.87,"text":"那相關的資料我們都需要我們提供"},{"start":7350.87,"end":7351.87,"text":"我們也都持續在提供"},{"start":7351.87,"end":7355.87,"text":"就是我們未來台灣大概會課徵一樣是10%嗎"},{"start":7355.87,"end":7358.87,"text":"這個部分我想經貿辦公室可能因為掌握的"},{"start":7358.87,"end":7361.87,"text":"比我們更為精確跟前進這個部分"},{"start":7361.87,"end":7363.87,"text":"你沒有跨部會去跟他了解一下嗎"},{"start":7363.87,"end":7366.87,"text":"我們持續有在提供相關的資料"},{"start":7366.87,"end":7369.87,"text":"也就是說因為他們要去跟美方去做聯繫的"},{"start":7369.87,"end":7371.87,"text":"需要我們國內的資料"},{"start":7371.87,"end":7373.87,"text":"屬於財政部的部分我們都一直在提供"},{"start":7373.87,"end":7375.87,"text":"一直到財政部的了解"},{"start":7375.87,"end":7377.87,"text":"那我該問你說你有沒有掌握到"},{"start":7377.87,"end":7379.87,"text":"大概我們的稅率會落在哪裡"},{"start":7379.87,"end":7382.87,"text":"這個部分我沒有辦法在這邊說明"},{"start":7382.87,"end":7384.87,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7384.87,"end":7386.87,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":7386.87,"end":7389.87,"text":"謝謝林思敏委員"},{"start":7389.87,"end":7392.87,"text":"接下來我們請林黛樺委員"},{"start":7392.87,"end":7394.87,"text":"林黛樺委員"},{"start":7394.87,"end":7396.87,"text":"林黛樺委員不在"},{"start":7396.87,"end":7398.87,"text":"下一位我們請吳秉睿召委"},{"start":7406.5,"end":7408.5,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部莊部長"},{"start":7408.5,"end":7410.5,"text":"來請莊部長"},{"start":7413.24,"end":7416.24,"text":"莊部長剛剛聽你的報告"},{"start":7416.24,"end":7419.24,"text":"土地稅跟這個房屋稅"},{"start":7419.24,"end":7422.24,"text":"你是要授權地方政府對於婚育才"},{"start":7422.24,"end":7426.24,"text":"或是有出生子女的這個房屋稅"},{"start":7426.24,"end":7428.24,"text":"跟土地稅可以做"},{"start":7429.81,"end":7431.81,"text":"得為減免"},{"start":7431.81,"end":7433.81,"text":"那還要經過地方自治條例"},{"start":7433.81,"end":7435.81,"text":"由地方的議會來訂定"},{"start":7436.07,"end":7440.07,"text":"那你這裡面的稅損你是估計50到70億"},{"start":7440.07,"end":7442.07,"text":"那請問這個是怎麼算出來"},{"start":7442.07,"end":7444.07,"text":"因為既然是得"},{"start":7444.07,"end":7446.07,"text":"那地方"},{"start":7446.07,"end":7448.07,"text":"地方的這個"},{"start":7448.1,"end":7450.1,"text":"地方的議會"},{"start":7450.1,"end":7452.1,"text":"要自治條例來訂定"},{"start":7452.1,"end":7454.1,"text":"他也不一定會訂定"},{"start":7454.1,"end":7456.1,"text":"或是他訂定的額度"},{"start":7454.49,"end":7456.49,"text":"你有給他規定嗎"},{"start":7456.49,"end":7457.49,"text":"是沒有沒有錯"},{"start":7457.49,"end":7460.49,"text":"我們第一個就是說是以單一自住"},{"start":7460.49,"end":7462.49,"text":"也就是目前來說他是屬於"},{"start":7462.49,"end":7464.49,"text":"只有在全國自用住宅裡面"},{"start":7464.49,"end":7466.49,"text":"只有單一的一戶的"},{"start":7466.49,"end":7468.49,"text":"這樣的一個家庭裡面"},{"start":7468.49,"end":7470.49,"text":"對我們的問題是你的稅損是怎麼算出來"},{"start":7470.49,"end":7472.49,"text":"我們稅損是用我們看"},{"start":7472.49,"end":7474.49,"text":"單一自住裡面在"},{"start":7474.49,"end":7476.49,"text":"114年是有315萬戶"},{"start":7476.49,"end":7478.49,"text":"115年有318萬戶"},{"start":7478.49,"end":7480.49,"text":"我們以這樣的戶數之下去"},{"start":7480.49,"end":7482.49,"text":"做一個推估對的問題是"},{"start":7482.49,"end":7484.49,"text":"地方政府要給他減免多少"},{"start":7484.49,"end":7486.49,"text":"也是不確定"},{"start":7486.49,"end":7488.49,"text":"地方議會要"},{"start":7488.49,"end":7490.49,"text":"要不要訂這個自治條例給他減免也不確定"},{"start":7490.49,"end":7492.49,"text":"所以你怎麼算"},{"start":7492.49,"end":7494.49,"text":"有辦法去"},{"start":7494.49,"end":7496.49,"text":"我們第一個當然是用一個最大的來估"},{"start":7496.49,"end":7498.49,"text":"就是假設這樣為全免的情況下"},{"start":7498.49,"end":7500.49,"text":"來做估計的一個數字"},{"start":7500.49,"end":7502.49,"text":"好那我來跟你講"},{"start":7503.26,"end":7505.26,"text":"剛剛有很多委員提出"},{"start":7505.26,"end":7507.26,"text":"說這是叫中央請客地方買單"},{"start":7507.26,"end":7509.26,"text":"我要跟你講"},{"start":7509.26,"end":7511.26,"text":"你的回答如果只有針對土地稅"},{"start":7511.26,"end":7513.26,"text":"跟這個房屋稅的減免"},{"start":7513.26,"end":7515.26,"text":"這部分"},{"start":7515.26,"end":7517.26,"text":"聽起來好像你在對這些婚育的"},{"start":7517.26,"end":7519.26,"text":"對這些年輕人"},{"start":7519.26,"end":7521.26,"text":"不怎麼友善"},{"start":7521.26,"end":7523.26,"text":"因為你還不願意補"},{"start":7523.26,"end":7525.26,"text":"但是你要知道"},{"start":7525.26,"end":7527.26,"text":"這個少子女化"},{"start":7527.26,"end":7529.26,"text":"少子女對策"},{"start":7529.26,"end":7531.26,"text":"他是套餐"},{"start":7531.26,"end":7533.26,"text":"有的要給錢"},{"start":7533.26,"end":7535.26,"text":"有的要給補助"},{"start":7535.26,"end":7537.26,"text":"他已經給了一大堆的福利政策跟補貼了"},{"start":7539.78,"end":7541.78,"text":"這個只是"},{"start":7541.47,"end":7543.47,"text":"警上添花的一小部分"},{"start":7543.47,"end":7545.47,"text":"地方政府要不要減免"},{"start":7545.47,"end":7547.47,"text":"地方的議會要不要"},{"start":7547.47,"end":7549.47,"text":"通過自治條例都還要在"},{"start":7549.47,"end":7551.47,"text":"未定之天"},{"start":7550.99,"end":7552.99,"text":"所以好像在跟你講說"},{"start":7552.99,"end":7554.99,"text":"50億70億你也不肯負擔"},{"start":7554.99,"end":7556.99,"text":"像中央政府很對不起"},{"start":7556.99,"end":7558.99,"text":"這些人"},{"start":7558.99,"end":7560.99,"text":"我覺得你的回答針對問題是沒有錯"},{"start":7560.99,"end":7562.99,"text":"但是我們要再拉高一個更高的"},{"start":7562.99,"end":7564.99,"text":"層次來看"},{"start":7564.99,"end":7566.99,"text":"中央政府對於這些年輕人跟婚姻"},{"start":7566.99,"end":7568.99,"text":"有非常多的照顧"},{"start":7568.99,"end":7570.99,"text":"包括0到18歲一個月1萬塊"},{"start":7570.99,"end":7572.99,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":7572.99,"end":7574.99,"text":"5千塊不是嗎"},{"start":7574.99,"end":7576.99,"text":"然後你幾歲以後"},{"start":7576.99,"end":7578.99,"text":"還有一半要存"},{"start":7578.99,"end":7580.99,"text":"存在路數5千"},{"start":7580.99,"end":7582.99,"text":"05千不是嗎"},{"start":7582.99,"end":7584.99,"text":"還是存2千5 02千5"},{"start":7584.99,"end":7586.99,"text":"第一個就是說其實對於未成年子女"},{"start":7586.99,"end":7588.99,"text":"政府真的是如同委員所說的"},{"start":7588.99,"end":7590.99,"text":"就是整套的"},{"start":7590.99,"end":7592.99,"text":"這只是其中的一小項而已"},{"start":7592.99,"end":7594.99,"text":"包含有育兒津貼"},{"start":7594.99,"end":7596.99,"text":"還有公托幼托的時候"},{"start":7596.99,"end":7598.99,"text":"政府給予相關的補助"},{"start":7598.99,"end":7600.99,"text":"剛才還有提到這次新的成長津貼"},{"start":7600.99,"end":7602.99,"text":"成長津貼是0到6歲的時候"},{"start":7602.99,"end":7604.99,"text":"每一個孩子"},{"start":7604.99,"end":7606.99,"text":"每個月5千塊是給"},{"start":7606.99,"end":7608.99,"text":"家長6歲以後到18歲"},{"start":7608.99,"end":7610.99,"text":"就一半2500"},{"start":7610.99,"end":7612.99,"text":"是給個人"},{"start":7612.99,"end":7614.99,"text":"然後2500是存到專戶去到他18歲滿的時候"},{"start":7614.99,"end":7616.99,"text":"我知道我的意思是說我們在看"},{"start":7616.99,"end":7618.99,"text":"這是政府整體的一個支出"},{"start":7618.99,"end":7620.99,"text":"我們在看這個問題的時候要看政府整體"},{"start":7620.99,"end":7622.99,"text":"那你在財政部考量你這個"},{"start":7622.99,"end":7624.99,"text":"政策的時候"},{"start":7624.99,"end":7626.99,"text":"這個別的委員講這個也有點道理"},{"start":7626.99,"end":7628.99,"text":"你中央政府給我規定讓我"},{"start":7628.99,"end":7630.99,"text":"要對這些年輕人減稅"},{"start":7630.99,"end":7632.99,"text":"但是你給我強調一個得嘛"},{"start":7632.99,"end":7634.99,"text":"所以你可以減可以補給"},{"start":7634.99,"end":7636.99,"text":"但是我如果居住在地方縣市"},{"start":7636.99,"end":7638.99,"text":"我舉個例子台北市有減"},{"start":7638.99,"end":7640.99,"text":"我新北市沒減"},{"start":7640.99,"end":7642.99,"text":"我心目中就多利益了"},{"start":7642.99,"end":7644.99,"text":"為什麼我平平實實在在我面前"},{"start":7644.99,"end":7646.99,"text":"會告別人"},{"start":7646.99,"end":7648.99,"text":"這個待遇差這麼多"},{"start":7648.99,"end":7650.99,"text":"但是如果用陰的話"},{"start":7650.62,"end":7652.62,"text":"你是擔心說他就被落實說"},{"start":7652.62,"end":7654.62,"text":"讓你中央請客地方買單"},{"start":7654.62,"end":7656.62,"text":"所以你應該要少多少"},{"start":7656.62,"end":7658.62,"text":"就應該要補多少"},{"start":7658.62,"end":7660.62,"text":"過去地方都是用這樣的邏輯"},{"start":7661.55,"end":7663.55,"text":"不過我跟你講喔"},{"start":7663.55,"end":7665.55,"text":"這裡你還要再考量一個小問題"},{"start":7665.55,"end":7667.55,"text":"我不知道你有沒有考量到"},{"start":7667.55,"end":7669.55,"text":"如果你這個減免你沒有上限的話"},{"start":7669.55,"end":7671.55,"text":"假設減多少你補多少的話"},{"start":7671.55,"end":7673.55,"text":"那我地方為了要選票我全部都給你免掉"},{"start":7673.55,"end":7675.55,"text":"我免得越多越好"},{"start":7675.91,"end":7677.91,"text":"所以會變成每一個地方的補助會不一樣"},{"start":7679.24,"end":7683.24,"text":"所以我是覺得你這個政策的思考可能要再周延一點"},{"start":7683.24,"end":7685.24,"text":"是不是如果地方政府"},{"start":7685.24,"end":7687.24,"text":"真的有訂這個單行條例的話"},{"start":7687.24,"end":7691.24,"text":"他能夠免得範圍最多到哪裡是不是也要訂一個門"},{"start":7691.24,"end":7693.24,"text":"也要訂一個屋頂啦"},{"start":7693.58,"end":7695.58,"text":"這樣子你再來考量說"},{"start":7695.58,"end":7697.58,"text":"要不要適當的中央跟地方"},{"start":7697.58,"end":7699.58,"text":"一起來負擔這個政策我們來補助一部分"},{"start":7701.46,"end":7703.46,"text":"是不是合理"},{"start":7703.67,"end":7705.67,"text":"委員報告喔其實第一個在範圍上"},{"start":7705.67,"end":7707.67,"text":"已經是以單一自住"},{"start":7707.67,"end":7709.67,"text":"也就是說本人配偶及未成人之地"},{"start":7709.67,"end":7711.67,"text":"全國只有一間房子"},{"start":7711.67,"end":7713.67,"text":"這樣的一個範圍裡面"},{"start":7713.67,"end":7715.67,"text":"對於婚姻家庭可以自用住宅"},{"start":7715.67,"end":7717.67,"text":"而這一類的家庭其實目前"},{"start":7717.67,"end":7719.67,"text":"房屋稅只有一排"},{"start":7719.67,"end":7721.67,"text":"它比1.2基本的1.2還低"},{"start":7721.67,"end":7723.67,"text":"我知道啦"},{"start":7723.67,"end":7725.67,"text":"然後自用住宅也是千分之二"},{"start":7725.67,"end":7727.67,"text":"已經是那個最低的地價稅是最低的"},{"start":7727.67,"end":7729.67,"text":"我的意思是說如果你沒有那個"},{"start":7729.67,"end":7731.67,"text":"在這個範圍裡面去補多一點"},{"start":7731.67,"end":7733.67,"text":"中央補多少的話我新北的地方"},{"start":7733.67,"end":7735.67,"text":"政府我那些議員大家就全部都免掉"},{"start":7735.67,"end":7737.67,"text":"都免收啊"},{"start":7737.67,"end":7739.67,"text":"全部都中央補啊"},{"start":7739.67,"end":7741.67,"text":"所以我的意思是說你這個"},{"start":7741.67,"end":7743.67,"text":"政策要考慮周一"},{"start":7743.67,"end":7745.67,"text":"我沒有在這裡跟你講說你應該要怎麼確定"},{"start":7745.67,"end":7747.67,"text":"因為畢竟這是你財政部的"},{"start":7747.67,"end":7749.67,"text":"職權我是在這邊跟你"},{"start":7749.67,"end":7751.67,"text":"互相切磋這個政策"},{"start":7751.67,"end":7753.67,"text":"所以要考量很多"},{"start":7753.67,"end":7755.67,"text":"中央政府其實給予很大的照顧"},{"start":7755.67,"end":7757.67,"text":"那在這一方面沒有辦法"},{"start":7757.67,"end":7759.67,"text":"你已經照顧了99分"},{"start":7759.67,"end":7761.67,"text":"最後這一分喔"},{"start":7761.67,"end":7763.67,"text":"有人跟你爭論好像變成你是對不起人一樣"},{"start":7763.67,"end":7765.67,"text":"不要產生這樣的錯誤的概念"},{"start":7765.67,"end":7767.67,"text":"跟這個印象"},{"start":7767.67,"end":7769.67,"text":"謝謝委員指教"},{"start":7769.67,"end":7771.67,"text":"我覺得千萬不要造成這樣印象"},{"start":7771.67,"end":7773.67,"text":"第二個也中央政府的立場"},{"start":7773.67,"end":7775.67,"text":"也不適宜讓地方政府"},{"start":7775.67,"end":7777.67,"text":"每個地方的自治條例"},{"start":7777.67,"end":7779.67,"text":"定的不一樣"},{"start":7779.98,"end":7781.98,"text":"因為"},{"start":7781.98,"end":7783.98,"text":"居住在台灣沒有多大面積"},{"start":7783.98,"end":7785.98,"text":"所有的國人都是希望"},{"start":7785.98,"end":7787.98,"text":"別的政府想要有的權益我也要有"},{"start":7787.98,"end":7789.98,"text":"別的地方"},{"start":7789.98,"end":7791.98,"text":"有的權益我也要有"},{"start":7791.84,"end":7793.84,"text":"我舉個例子我們以前新北市"},{"start":7793.84,"end":7795.84,"text":"林長車馬補助分一個月"},{"start":7795.84,"end":7797.84,"text":"1500但台北市2500"},{"start":7797.84,"end":7799.84,"text":"桃園市2500被批評了很多年之後"},{"start":7799.84,"end":7801.84,"text":"現在侯市長從戰如流"},{"start":7801.84,"end":7803.84,"text":"宣布7月1號也調回2500"},{"start":7804.45,"end":7806.45,"text":"前面那幾年我們新北市的林長"},{"start":7806.45,"end":7808.45,"text":"就比較小了"},{"start":7808.8,"end":7810.8,"text":"也不能這樣說"},{"start":7810.8,"end":7812.8,"text":"所以其實如果地方的"},{"start":7812.8,"end":7814.8,"text":"大家的標準如果不一樣的話"},{"start":7814.8,"end":7816.8,"text":"其實大家感受也不好"},{"start":7816.8,"end":7818.8,"text":"這個也是得考慮看看"},{"start":7818.8,"end":7820.8,"text":"最後就是談到今天這個大法官會議的解釋"},{"start":7820.8,"end":7822.8,"text":"是"},{"start":7822.8,"end":7824.8,"text":"違憲這部分"},{"start":7824.8,"end":7826.8,"text":"就我念法律的角度來看"},{"start":7826.8,"end":7828.8,"text":"它真正的根源在哪裡"},{"start":7828.8,"end":7830.8,"text":"其實稅法有一個最基本最高的原則"},{"start":7830.8,"end":7832.8,"text":"就是拿到錢的人繳稅"},{"start":7832.8,"end":7834.8,"text":"對不對"},{"start":7835.01,"end":7837.01,"text":"我做生意我營業稅也是因為我做了這個生意我賺錢"},{"start":7837.01,"end":7839.01,"text":"所以我繳稅"},{"start":7840.56,"end":7842.56,"text":"我所得稅更是"},{"start":7842.56,"end":7844.56,"text":"我有多少所得稅我才繳稅"},{"start":7844.97,"end":7846.97,"text":"但是因為你在遺產稅的時候"},{"start":7847.87,"end":7849.87,"text":"你是採種的你字"},{"start":7851.11,"end":7853.11,"text":"是的"},{"start":7852.29,"end":7854.29,"text":"沒有收到錢的人有可能要繳稅"},{"start":7855.71,"end":7857.71,"text":"這個就是這一次被解釋為違憲的最根本原因"},{"start":7860.49,"end":7862.49,"text":"但是我上次有在這邊跟你提過喔"},{"start":7864.07,"end":7866.07,"text":"日本的遺產稅"},{"start":7865.92,"end":7867.92,"text":"是拿到遺產的人"},{"start":7868.71,"end":7870.71,"text":"繳稅喔"},{"start":7870.01,"end":7872.01,"text":"它不是你字整體喔"},{"start":7872.56,"end":7874.56,"text":"那"},{"start":7873.52,"end":7875.52,"text":"一個被繼承的人他有多少遺產"},{"start":7875.52,"end":7877.52,"text":"可以被幾個人繼承怎麼分配"},{"start":7879.22,"end":7881.22,"text":"這個"},{"start":7880.44,"end":7882.44,"text":"清清楚楚在日本沒有問題"},{"start":7882.9,"end":7884.9,"text":"因為"},{"start":7884.9,"end":7886.9,"text":"如果你要讓我遺產跟自由的話"},{"start":7886.46,"end":7888.46,"text":"這個長子我都跟他一起住喔"},{"start":7888.46,"end":7890.46,"text":"很孝順"},{"start":7890.34,"end":7892.34,"text":"我遺族裡面我要給他50%"},{"start":7893.14,"end":7895.14,"text":"小兒子跟小女兒我也很照顧他們"},{"start":7895.14,"end":7897.14,"text":"但是那個他們經濟已經不錯了"},{"start":7897.14,"end":7899.14,"text":"我給他25%"},{"start":7900.75,"end":7902.75,"text":"各有25%三個人繼承"},{"start":7903.32,"end":7905.32,"text":"我舉這樣的案例"},{"start":7905.61,"end":7907.61,"text":"但是"},{"start":7906.61,"end":7908.61,"text":"在日本就很清楚"},{"start":7908.61,"end":7910.61,"text":"那我就拿到了那三個小朋友拿到的"},{"start":7911.18,"end":7913.18,"text":"遺產該繳多少遺產他們去繳"},{"start":7914.54,"end":7916.54,"text":"台灣不是欸台灣你給的你字"},{"start":7917.33,"end":7919.33,"text":"小兒子假設有一個小兒子"},{"start":7919.33,"end":7921.33,"text":"說為什麼我是25%"},{"start":7921.75,"end":7923.75,"text":"不要繳"},{"start":7923.7,"end":7925.7,"text":"你那個案子就拖著"},{"start":7926.64,"end":7928.64,"text":"然後怎麼財產怎麼分配怎麼分割"},{"start":7930.15,"end":7932.15,"text":"有時候都搞不清楚"},{"start":7932.15,"end":7934.15,"text":"我就不要分割啊"},{"start":7934.15,"end":7936.15,"text":"那去告啊到法院去啊"},{"start":7935.62,"end":7937.62,"text":"所以"},{"start":7936.98,"end":7938.98,"text":"誰收到多少錢"},{"start":7938.98,"end":7940.98,"text":"拿到多少錢"},{"start":7941.19,"end":7943.19,"text":"由他來繳稅"},{"start":7943.4,"end":7945.4,"text":"這樣子的制度"},{"start":7945.32,"end":7947.32,"text":"日本已經實施非常多年"},{"start":7947.32,"end":7949.32,"text":"也沒什麼弊端"},{"start":7949.27,"end":7951.27,"text":"我們台灣你們說說因為過去的歷史"},{"start":7951.27,"end":7955.27,"text":"我們就是你是被繼承人的遺產種兒"},{"start":7955.72,"end":7959.72,"text":"所以我們現在隨著這樣衍生非常多繼承上的問題"},{"start":7960.34,"end":7962.34,"text":"也衍生出這樣的案例"},{"start":7962.34,"end":7964.34,"text":"你今天雖然針對大法官會議解釋"},{"start":7964.34,"end":7966.34,"text":"本席也有提出修正案"},{"start":7966.34,"end":7968.34,"text":"但這個都只是局部的修正"},{"start":7968.34,"end":7970.34,"text":"這個根本原因不解決"},{"start":7970.34,"end":7972.34,"text":"將來還會出現極端的案例"},{"start":7972.34,"end":7974.34,"text":"再申請大法官會議解釋"},{"start":7974.34,"end":7976.34,"text":"大法官又再根據這個來考量"},{"start":7977.15,"end":7979.15,"text":"因為大法官的考量很清楚嘛"},{"start":7979.63,"end":7981.63,"text":"沒有收到錢為什麼要繳遺產稅"},{"start":7982.5,"end":7984.5,"text":"這是根本他認為違憲違反平等權的最大原因"},{"start":7986.43,"end":7988.43,"text":"所以你這個能不能考量"},{"start":7988.77,"end":7990.77,"text":"收到多少遺產"},{"start":7991.05,"end":7993.05,"text":"結果由他收到的遺產"},{"start":7993.05,"end":7995.05,"text":"繼承了他繼承多少遺產"},{"start":7995.05,"end":7997.05,"text":"從他繼承的遺產裡面"},{"start":7997.05,"end":7999.05,"text":"照遺產稅該繳的稅率去繳"},{"start":7999.05,"end":8001.05,"text":"你覺得這樣子是不是會比較清楚"},{"start":8002.61,"end":8004.61,"text":"謝謝委員長"},{"start":8004.61,"end":8006.61,"text":"委員上次也有提過這樣的提議"},{"start":8006.61,"end":8008.61,"text":"那我們知道第一個"},{"start":8008.61,"end":8010.61,"text":"遺產稅的計算"},{"start":8010.61,"end":8012.61,"text":"當然回歸到繼承的一個制度"},{"start":8012.61,"end":8014.61,"text":"在民法裡面"},{"start":8014.61,"end":8016.61,"text":"繼承一開始就是共同共有的狀態"},{"start":8016.61,"end":8018.61,"text":"除非他們去做遺產的協議分割"},{"start":8018.61,"end":8020.61,"text":"最不行的時候就判決分割"},{"start":8020.61,"end":8022.61,"text":"所以在共同共有的狀態"},{"start":8022.61,"end":8024.61,"text":"他其實沒有所謂的應有部分跟持分"},{"start":8024.61,"end":8026.61,"text":"所以在我們課稅的時候"},{"start":8026.61,"end":8028.61,"text":"共同共有也有應有部分也有持分"},{"start":8028.61,"end":8030.61,"text":"只是共同共有的狀態之下"},{"start":8030.61,"end":8032.61,"text":"所以依照法律擬置"},{"start":8032.61,"end":8034.61,"text":"共同共有結束之前沒有辦法分割"},{"start":8034.61,"end":8036.61,"text":"所以如果說我們要用"},{"start":8036.61,"end":8038.61,"text":"個別繼承人取得多少遺產"},{"start":8038.61,"end":8040.61,"text":"分別去計算遺產稅的話"},{"start":8040.61,"end":8042.61,"text":"整個題子我想這個部分"},{"start":8042.61,"end":8044.61,"text":"委員提過很多次"},{"start":8044.61,"end":8046.61,"text":"第一個就是我們可能會不會介入到"},{"start":8046.61,"end":8048.61,"text":"繼承人之間相互的協議分割"},{"start":8048.61,"end":8050.61,"text":"的一些狀態他們如果一直沒有"},{"start":8050.61,"end":8052.61,"text":"能夠達成協議的話"},{"start":8052.61,"end":8054.61,"text":"我們的繼承遺產稅就沒有辦法開課"},{"start":8054.61,"end":8056.61,"text":"所以這個部分如果我想"},{"start":8056.61,"end":8058.61,"text":"委員的建議我們願意來做一個研議"},{"start":8058.61,"end":8060.61,"text":"我們可以做一個研究"},{"start":8060.61,"end":8062.61,"text":"從整個遺產繼承的制度"},{"start":8062.61,"end":8064.61,"text":"一直到後面遺產稅的課程"},{"start":8064.61,"end":8066.61,"text":"我們可以做整體的討論"},{"start":8066.61,"end":8068.61,"text":"日本就是照這個制度"},{"start":8068.61,"end":8070.61,"text":"已經執行非常多年"},{"start":8070.61,"end":8072.61,"text":"你去日本取經就可以了"},{"start":8072.61,"end":8074.61,"text":"我們也可以去收集其他國際上執行的"},{"start":8074.61,"end":8076.61,"text":"一個案子"},{"start":8076.61,"end":8078.61,"text":"照台灣這種制度的很少啦"},{"start":8078.61,"end":8080.61,"text":"這裡有一個最大的問題就是"},{"start":8080.32,"end":8082.32,"text":"明明"},{"start":8081.79,"end":8083.79,"text":"你們為什麼要把兩年內"},{"start":8083.79,"end":8085.79,"text":"繼承人死亡之前"},{"start":8085.79,"end":8087.79,"text":"兩年內的那個財產"},{"start":8087.79,"end":8089.79,"text":"要把它再算回來是變成遺產"},{"start":8089.79,"end":8091.79,"text":"就原因是因為你要找"},{"start":8091.79,"end":8093.79,"text":"財種而制度嘛"},{"start":8093.79,"end":8095.79,"text":"不然照理來講我生前已經處分了財產"},{"start":8095.79,"end":8097.79,"text":"照民法的原理我生前已經處分了"},{"start":8097.79,"end":8099.79,"text":"財產就不是被繼承遺產啦"},{"start":8100.49,"end":8102.49,"text":"這個所以你們這個"},{"start":8102.49,"end":8104.49,"text":"你們要採這個制度會衍生非常多的問題"},{"start":8104.49,"end":8106.49,"text":"要圓這個制度"},{"start":8106.49,"end":8108.49,"text":"就會生很多的問題"},{"start":8108.49,"end":8110.49,"text":"好好的研究一下"},{"start":8110.49,"end":8112.49,"text":"謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":8113.09,"end":8115.09,"text":"好謝謝吳秉睿召委"},{"start":8115.09,"end":8117.09,"text":"接下來我們請顏寬恒委員"},{"start":8125.56,"end":8127.56,"text":"主席各位烈士官大家好"},{"start":8127.56,"end":8129.56,"text":"主席有請財政部莊部長"},{"start":8129.56,"end":8131.56,"text":"請莊部長"},{"start":8136.87,"end":8138.87,"text":"委員好"},{"start":8138.87,"end":8140.87,"text":"部長好"},{"start":8140.87,"end":8142.87,"text":"這個少指明話"},{"start":8142.29,"end":8144.29,"text":"的問題是台灣目前正在面臨的國安危機"},{"start":8146.1,"end":8148.1,"text":"那我想在租稅優惠這方面"},{"start":8148.1,"end":8150.1,"text":"財政部能夠展現積極主張的態度"},{"start":8150.1,"end":8152.1,"text":"將減輕育兒家庭負擔"},{"start":8152.1,"end":8154.1,"text":"視為財政部政策的核心目標之一"},{"start":8154.1,"end":8156.1,"text":"那我想這個在7月16行政院拍板"},{"start":8156.1,"end":8158.1,"text":"訂案這個"},{"start":8158.1,"end":8160.1,"text":"這個新青江3.0"},{"start":8160.1,"end":8162.1,"text":"上線"},{"start":8162.1,"end":8164.1,"text":"代款上線1000萬"},{"start":8164.1,"end":8166.1,"text":"那其餘的包含這個"},{"start":8166.1,"end":8168.1,"text":"需未滿50歲"},{"start":8168.1,"end":8170.1,"text":"然後房屋購買總額2000至3500"},{"start":8170.1,"end":8172.1,"text":"那其餘的包含這個"},{"start":8172.1,"end":8174.1,"text":"需未滿50歲"},{"start":8174.1,"end":8176.1,"text":"那其餘的包含這個"},{"start":8176.1,"end":8178.1,"text":"要求不得2000至3500萬"},{"start":8178.1,"end":8180.1,"text":"那排富門檻就是"},{"start":8180.1,"end":8182.1,"text":"個人借款的捏索的"},{"start":8182.1,"end":8184.1,"text":"不得超過200萬元"},{"start":8184.1,"end":8186.1,"text":"那同時利率補貼"},{"start":8186.1,"end":8188.1,"text":"這個分年退場"},{"start":8188.1,"end":8190.1,"text":"然後5年寬限期"},{"start":8189.23,"end":8191.23,"text":"那放寬婚姻家庭"},{"start":8191.23,"end":8193.23,"text":"還有新婚家庭的代款上線"},{"start":8193.23,"end":8194.23,"text":"除了這個之外"},{"start":8194.23,"end":8196.23,"text":"部長有沒有要補充的部分"},{"start":8196.23,"end":8197.23,"text":"沒有提到的"},{"start":8197.23,"end":8199.23,"text":"是的謝謝委員"},{"start":8199.23,"end":8200.23,"text":"第一個就是"},{"start":8200.23,"end":8202.23,"text":"不管我們對婚姻家庭做一些協助"},{"start":8202.23,"end":8204.23,"text":"跟補助跟鼓勵"},{"start":8204.23,"end":8206.23,"text":"不管是從地價稅房屋稅的部分"},{"start":8206.23,"end":8208.23,"text":"我們希望能夠給予居住減壓"},{"start":8208.23,"end":8210.23,"text":"對於婚姻家庭"},{"start":8210.23,"end":8212.23,"text":"那在清安3.0裡面也是"},{"start":8212.23,"end":8214.23,"text":"對於沒有自有住宅的民眾"},{"start":8214.23,"end":8216.23,"text":"我們來購買房屋來協助他們"},{"start":8216.23,"end":8217.23,"text":"做自住使用"},{"start":8217.23,"end":8220.23,"text":"我想這個部分這兩個政策目標都是一致的"},{"start":8220.79,"end":8222.79,"text":"好 那就婚姻家庭"},{"start":8222.79,"end":8224.79,"text":"婚姻宅這部分"},{"start":8224.79,"end":8225.79,"text":"我們先討論"},{"start":8225.79,"end":8227.79,"text":"上次在質詢的時候提到說"},{"start":8227.79,"end":8229.79,"text":"婚姻宅新清安3.0"},{"start":8229.79,"end":8231.79,"text":"新清安的疑慮"},{"start":8231.79,"end":8233.79,"text":"我有看到你們有在說明這邊"},{"start":8233.79,"end":8235.79,"text":"有說明說"},{"start":8235.79,"end":8237.79,"text":"意圖利用新婚資格拉高"},{"start":8237.79,"end":8239.79,"text":"代款額度的投機者"},{"start":8239.79,"end":8241.79,"text":"你們會嚴加的審查"},{"start":8241.79,"end":8243.79,"text":"然後一經查獲假結婚"},{"start":8243.79,"end":8245.79,"text":"然後這個詐貸"},{"start":8245.79,"end":8247.79,"text":"詐取代款的"},{"start":8247.79,"end":8249.79,"text":"這些代款會消失"},{"start":8249.79,"end":8251.79,"text":"會失效"},{"start":8250.81,"end":8252.81,"text":"那我想你們"},{"start":8252.81,"end":8254.81,"text":"我想提出問題說你們如何進行審查"},{"start":8254.81,"end":8256.81,"text":"就是說什麼樣的行為"},{"start":8256.81,"end":8258.81,"text":"會被認定是假結婚"},{"start":8258.81,"end":8260.81,"text":"你們要如何去發現"},{"start":8260.81,"end":8262.81,"text":"然後"},{"start":8262.35,"end":8264.35,"text":"如果發現了"},{"start":8263.7,"end":8265.7,"text":"代款契約失效"},{"start":8265.7,"end":8267.7,"text":"那有沒有另外的"},{"start":8267.25,"end":8269.25,"text":"這個懲罰機制"},{"start":8269.25,"end":8271.25,"text":"還是只有代款失效"},{"start":8271.25,"end":8273.25,"text":"這部分其實財政部交代的不是很明確"},{"start":8273.25,"end":8275.25,"text":"那我先前有提到說"},{"start":8275.25,"end":8277.25,"text":"在這個新婚你們認定的新婚"},{"start":8277.25,"end":8279.25,"text":"期間兩年內"},{"start":8279.25,"end":8281.25,"text":"如果他離婚了"},{"start":8281.25,"end":8283.25,"text":"他確實真正結婚啦"},{"start":8283.25,"end":8285.25,"text":"但是他這兩年內離婚"},{"start":8285.25,"end":8287.25,"text":"或者是發生任何一方"},{"start":8287.25,"end":8289.25,"text":"發生事故上偶"},{"start":8289.25,"end":8291.25,"text":"那代款額度要如何計算"},{"start":8291.25,"end":8293.25,"text":"這個可不可以趁這個機會"},{"start":8293.25,"end":8295.25,"text":"部長說明一下"},{"start":8292.07,"end":8294.07,"text":"委員對於新婚還有"},{"start":8294.07,"end":8296.07,"text":"又有未成年之餘的家庭"},{"start":8296.07,"end":8298.07,"text":"他要買房子我們都可以最高的祝福"},{"start":8298.07,"end":8300.07,"text":"什麼離婚啦"},{"start":8300.07,"end":8302.07,"text":"上偶啊"},{"start":8302.07,"end":8304.07,"text":"這樣子我覺得我們都覺得會"},{"start":8304.07,"end":8306.07,"text":"難過也滿遺憾的"},{"start":8306.07,"end":8308.07,"text":"那3.0就是"},{"start":8308.07,"end":8310.07,"text":"我們講到實務上如果遇到這個狀況"},{"start":8310.07,"end":8312.07,"text":"如果現在就"},{"start":8312.07,"end":8314.07,"text":"我們現在就講說如果第一個他是"},{"start":8314.07,"end":8316.07,"text":"在離婚"},{"start":8316.07,"end":8318.07,"text":"那以後發生離婚的話我們講說"},{"start":8318.07,"end":8320.07,"text":"1200萬是當時是"},{"start":8320.07,"end":8322.07,"text":"新婚兩年內他來買"},{"start":8322.07,"end":8324.07,"text":"然後他的房子的代款的價"},{"start":8324.07,"end":8326.07,"text":"單保價值"},{"start":8326.07,"end":8328.07,"text":"也可以能夠"},{"start":8328.07,"end":8330.07,"text":"帶到1200萬才會"},{"start":8330.07,"end":8332.07,"text":"這個案子才會成立"},{"start":8332.07,"end":8334.07,"text":"那成立以後假設說他在"},{"start":8334.07,"end":8336.07,"text":"六年裡面就是政府協助"},{"start":8336.07,"end":8338.07,"text":"這個代款補助裡面他六年"},{"start":8338.07,"end":8340.07,"text":"裡面很遺憾的"},{"start":8340.07,"end":8342.07,"text":"發生了離婚的話"},{"start":8342.07,"end":8344.07,"text":"那也就從離婚以後對於"},{"start":8344.07,"end":8346.07,"text":"他200萬那個部分的利息補貼"},{"start":8346.07,"end":8348.07,"text":"我們就停止了"},{"start":8348.07,"end":8350.07,"text":"那至於上偶我們真的"},{"start":8350.07,"end":8352.07,"text":"也不希望發生這樣的一個事情"},{"start":8352.07,"end":8354.07,"text":"如果真的發生很不幸的"},{"start":8354.07,"end":8356.07,"text":"發生這種意外上偶等等的"},{"start":8356.07,"end":8358.07,"text":"情況下我相信我們也要"},{"start":8358.07,"end":8360.07,"text":"從人道的部分來思考"},{"start":8360.07,"end":8362.07,"text":"這樣的一個事情我覺得我們"},{"start":8362.07,"end":8364.07,"text":"現在先不要去說萬一上偶了怎麼樣"},{"start":8364.07,"end":8366.07,"text":"我想這個東西"},{"start":8366.07,"end":8368.07,"text":"會讓人很難過"},{"start":8368.07,"end":8370.07,"text":"我們只是希望"},{"start":8370.07,"end":8372.07,"text":"大家祝福他"},{"start":8372.07,"end":8374.07,"text":"然後政府給予一些協助"},{"start":8374.07,"end":8376.07,"text":"那如果很遺憾的發生婚姻的"},{"start":8376.07,"end":8378.07,"text":"一個變化的話"},{"start":8378.07,"end":8380.07,"text":"只有在這個"},{"start":8380.07,"end":8382.07,"text":"而且他又當時因為這樣的一個條件"},{"start":8382.07,"end":8384.07,"text":"和給了相關比較多的一個額度的話"},{"start":8384.07,"end":8386.07,"text":"我們也從那個之後"},{"start":8386.07,"end":8388.07,"text":"利息停止給予一些協助"},{"start":8388.07,"end":8390.07,"text":"不是不是"},{"start":8390.07,"end":8392.07,"text":"因為這個實務上一定會遇到"},{"start":8392.07,"end":8394.07,"text":"這實務上一定會遇到"},{"start":8394.07,"end":8396.07,"text":"實務上遇到的時候銀行"},{"start":8396.07,"end":8398.07,"text":"在處理的時候他們會"},{"start":8398.07,"end":8400.07,"text":"合情合理尤其像上偶那個情況"},{"start":8400.07,"end":8402.07,"text":"我覺得沒有人希望發生這樣"},{"start":8402.07,"end":8404.07,"text":"那一定會經濟上也可能產生一些變化"},{"start":8404.07,"end":8406.07,"text":"如果發現假結婚"},{"start":8406.07,"end":8408.07,"text":"一定會這個研辦"},{"start":8408.07,"end":8410.07,"text":"會處理會取消他的貸款"},{"start":8410.07,"end":8412.07,"text":"那如果是這個"},{"start":8413.6,"end":8415.6,"tex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.93,"end":8829.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8829.93,"end":8831.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8831.93,"end":8833.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8833.93,"end":8835.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8835.93,"end":8837.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8837.93,"end":8839.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8839.93,"end":8841.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8841.93,"end":8843.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8843.93,"end":8845.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8845.93,"end":8847.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8847.93,"end":8849.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8849.93,"end":8851.93,"text":"我們現在就來討論這個案件了"},{"start":8824.9,"end":8827.9,"text":"部長兩年時間有一點久"},{"start":8827.9,"end":8829.9,"text":"我們有沒有行政院板"},{"start":8831.19,"end":8833.19,"text":"已經報行任"},{"start":8833.19,"end":8835.19,"text":"政務委員審查完畢"},{"start":8835.19,"end":8839.19,"text":"我們應該就會報到大院來進行審議"},{"start":8840,"end":8842,"text":"這個草案作業原則"},{"start":8842,"end":8844,"text":"放得有一點久了"},{"start":8844,"end":8848,"text":"我用一個作業原則來處理這些事情"},{"start":8848,"end":8850,"text":"憲法法庭在兩年內已經判"},{"start":8850,"end":8853,"text":"在最後時間已經到才來送這件事情"},{"start":8853,"end":8855,"text":"我覺得是不妥"},{"start":8855,"end":8857,"text":"但是我還是就到就是說"},{"start":8857,"end":8859,"text":"就問題的最核心"},{"start":8859,"end":8861,"text":"我看這整件事情"},{"start":8861,"end":8864,"text":"憲法法庭最後的判決跟精神"},{"start":8864,"end":8866,"text":"我想來跟部長討論一下"},{"start":8866,"end":8868,"text":"就是說上次在上次質詢的"},{"start":8868,"end":8870,"text":"另外一次的答詢我有跟你討論過"},{"start":8870,"end":8873,"text":"就是說我們這一次修法的方向是"},{"start":8873,"end":8876,"text":"情緒有一個案子在新聞上"},{"start":8876,"end":8878,"text":"我們就看到大老婆的復仇"},{"start":8878,"end":8880,"text":"我簡稱大老婆的復仇"},{"start":8880,"end":8882,"text":"精神上其實就是"},{"start":8882,"end":8885,"text":"財產歸誰最後遺產誰拿"},{"start":8885,"end":8887,"text":"就是誰來付稅就要跟著誰"},{"start":8887,"end":8889,"text":"這是我們最主要這次修法的精神"},{"start":8889,"end":8890,"text":"對不對"},{"start":8891.01,"end":8893.01,"text":"委員說的是"},{"start":8893.01,"end":8895.01,"text":"上次我有質詢過就是說"},{"start":8895.01,"end":8898.01,"text":"我被懲刑有一個繼承被繼承人"},{"start":8898.01,"end":8902.01,"text":"這個死亡人他當時在身前有蹲腳"},{"start":8902.01,"end":8904.01,"text":"購買上百張的保單"},{"start":8904.01,"end":8907.01,"text":"這個保單的薪額高達1.6億元"},{"start":8907.01,"end":8909.01,"text":"那他在死亡之前"},{"start":8909.01,"end":8910.01,"text":"我上次講了"},{"start":8910.01,"end":8912.01,"text":"死亡之前這個"},{"start":8912.01,"end":8915.01,"text":"他把他的保險的錢"},{"start":8915.01,"end":8917.01,"text":"他指定給"},{"start":8918.06,"end":8922.06,"text":"這個廟宇他其實他不是財團法人"},{"start":8922.06,"end":8924.06,"text":"他沒有被登記"},{"start":8924.06,"end":8927.06,"text":"就是一般的譬如說是很有名的廟"},{"start":8927.06,"end":8929.06,"text":"但他沒有登記成財團法人"},{"start":8929.06,"end":8930.06,"text":"所以這個案子"},{"start":8930.06,"end":8932.06,"text":"當時在接受復查的時候"},{"start":8932.06,"end":8936.06,"text":"就是他有懲刑復查的時候就被駁回"},{"start":8936.06,"end":8939.06,"text":"因為他不適用這個財團法人"},{"start":8939.06,"end":8943.06,"text":"跟有登記正式的廟宇才有機會免稅"},{"start":8943.06,"end":8945.06,"text":"那這個案子其實"},{"start":8945.06,"end":8947.06,"text":"當然後來這個案子和解了"},{"start":8947.06,"end":8949.06,"text":"就是陳情人到最後覺得算了"},{"start":8949.06,"end":8952.06,"text":"反正爸爸本來就想捐給廟"},{"start":8952.06,"end":8953.06,"text":"他就多繳了稅"},{"start":8953.06,"end":8955.06,"text":"但是這整件事情"},{"start":8955.06,"end":8957.06,"text":"並不符合我們這一次修法"},{"start":8957.06,"end":8959.06,"text":"我們的修法方向是"},{"start":8959.06,"end":8961.06,"text":"遺產誰拿誰就該付稅"},{"start":8961.06,"end":8963.06,"text":"不管這個單位最後是免稅"},{"start":8963.06,"end":8965.06,"text":"那是另外一回事"},{"start":8965.06,"end":8967.06,"text":"所以我想請教部長"},{"start":8967.06,"end":8969.06,"text":"如果未來有類似的案子"},{"start":8970.95,"end":8972.95,"text":"再有一件類似的案子"},{"start":8972.95,"end":8974.95,"text":"走到憲法法庭"},{"start":8974.95,"end":8977.95,"text":"那財政部對這件事情的看法如何"},{"start":8977.95,"end":8979.95,"text":"既然我們現在認為"},{"start":8979.95,"end":8981.95,"text":"財產歸誰拿"},{"start":8981.95,"end":8983.95,"text":"付稅就應該跟著誰"},{"start":8985.19,"end":8987.19,"text":"那你怎麼去看待這件事情"},{"start":8988.15,"end":8990.15,"text":"因為這個案子最後是和解了"},{"start":8990.15,"end":8992.15,"text":"這個家屬還負擔了起"},{"start":8992.15,"end":8993.15,"text":"所以我多繳"},{"start":8993.15,"end":8995.15,"text":"沒關係我幫廟宇多繳"},{"start":8995.15,"end":8997.15,"text":"但是這件事情"},{"start":8997.15,"end":8999.15,"text":"跟我們現在修法的方向是相違背的"},{"start":8999.15,"end":9001.15,"text":"我想問部長的意見是什麼"},{"start":9001.15,"end":9004.15,"text":"是委員上次有質詢這一個個案"},{"start":9004.15,"end":9007.15,"text":"我想我們附稅署也去所了解"},{"start":9007.15,"end":9008.15,"text":"那是不是由我們附稅署來"},{"start":9008.15,"end":9010.15,"text":"這個部分來做一個說明"},{"start":9011.91,"end":9013.91,"text":"因為我今天時間有限"},{"start":9013.91,"end":9014.91,"text":"好委員好"},{"start":9014.91,"end":9016.91,"text":"就委員剛剛提的那個案子"},{"start":9016.91,"end":9018.91,"text":"陳如委員了解的"},{"start":9018.91,"end":9020.91,"text":"那因為他是"},{"start":9020.91,"end":9021.91,"text":"談個案"},{"start":9021.91,"end":9022.91,"text":"今天我們"},{"start":9022.91,"end":9023.91,"text":"其實部長"},{"start":9023.91,"end":9024.91,"text":"部長署長"},{"start":9024.91,"end":9025.91,"text":"我沒有要跟你談個案"},{"start":9025.91,"end":9026.91,"text":"是是"},{"start":9026.91,"end":9028.91,"text":"我覺得這是一個納稅義務人"},{"start":9028.91,"end":9030.91,"text":"跟受益人的錯誌"},{"start":9030.91,"end":9031.91,"text":"對"},{"start":9031.91,"end":9032.91,"text":"我們現在的精神是"},{"start":9032.91,"end":9033.91,"text":"以財產歸誰拿"},{"start":9033.91,"end":9036.91,"text":"誰就要就那部分來繳稅"},{"start":9036.91,"end":9037.91,"text":"那我是指說"},{"start":9037.91,"end":9040.91,"text":"未來如果再有類似的案子的話"},{"start":9040.91,"end":9042.91,"text":"我們現在憲法已經解釋"},{"start":9042.91,"end":9044.91,"text":"你剛剛也說我們修法的方向是"},{"start":9044.91,"end":9045.91,"text":"錢歸誰拿"},{"start":9045.91,"end":9046.91,"text":"那遺產歸誰拿"},{"start":9046.91,"end":9047.91,"text":"誰就要該繳稅"},{"start":9047.91,"end":9049.91,"text":"那類似這樣的案子"},{"start":9049.91,"end":9050.91,"text":"其實是納稅義務人"},{"start":9050.91,"end":9052.91,"text":"跟受益人的錯誌"},{"start":9054.08,"end":9056.08,"text":"那未來有類似的案子"},{"start":9056.08,"end":9058.08,"text":"到底應該誰來負擔這個稅收"},{"start":9059.81,"end":9061.81,"text":"我再問你精神跟方向"},{"start":9061.81,"end":9063.81,"text":"既然我們今天修法的方向是這樣子"},{"start":9063.81,"end":9064.81,"text":"錢歸誰拿"},{"start":9064.81,"end":9065.81,"text":"誰就該繳稅"},{"start":9065.81,"end":9068.81,"text":"因為我們今天修法的內容是說"},{"start":9068.81,"end":9071.81,"text":"他生前兩年內的證語"},{"start":9071.81,"end":9073.81,"text":"那如果他今天兩年內證語"},{"start":9073.81,"end":9075.81,"text":"因為我們是特定的對象"},{"start":9075.81,"end":9077.81,"text":"譬如說包括他的配偶"},{"start":9077.81,"end":9080.81,"text":"或者他的原來順位的繼承人"},{"start":9080.81,"end":9081.81,"text":"那如果是在一個廟宇"},{"start":9081.81,"end":9083.81,"text":"這個廟宇剛好又不是財團法人"},{"start":9083.81,"end":9084.81,"text":"只是一般的廟宇"},{"start":9084.81,"end":9085.81,"text":"沒有被登記"},{"start":9085.81,"end":9087.81,"text":"那該誰誰繳"},{"start":9088.1,"end":9092.1,"text":"因為那個就不會列入兩年內的繼承"},{"start":9092.1,"end":9095.1,"text":"就是不會是擬製的遺產"},{"start":9095.1,"end":9096.1,"text":"因為我們擬製的遺產"},{"start":9096.1,"end":9099.1,"text":"是針對他生前兩年內"},{"start":9099.1,"end":9101.1,"text":"證語特定親屬的"},{"start":9101.1,"end":9102.1,"text":"還有包括這一些"},{"start":9102.1,"end":9104.1,"text":"但他算是遺產喔"},{"start":9104.1,"end":9105.1,"text":"他算是遺產"},{"start":9105.1,"end":9106.1,"text":"那如果是兩年內的話"},{"start":9106.1,"end":9108.1,"text":"他還是算遺產"},{"start":9108.1,"end":9109.1,"text":"我們兩年內"},{"start":9110.07,"end":9112.07,"text":"兩年內的證語是"},{"start":9112.07,"end":9113.07,"text":"我們依照15條"},{"start":9113.07,"end":9116.07,"text":"宜政稅法15條的規定"},{"start":9116.07,"end":9118.07,"text":"他是證語特定人的"},{"start":9118.07,"end":9119.07,"text":"就是有關係的"},{"start":9119.07,"end":9120.07,"text":"那主要也是"},{"start":9120.07,"end":9122.07,"text":"他算遺產嗎"},{"start":9122.07,"end":9124.07,"text":"那如果三年他算遺產嗎"},{"start":9124.68,"end":9126.68,"text":"他如果三年不要講兩年"},{"start":9126.68,"end":9127.68,"text":"三年他算遺產嗎"},{"start":9127.68,"end":9129.68,"text":"對 因為他那個案子"},{"start":9129.68,"end":9130.68,"text":"如果委員不談個案"},{"start":9130.68,"end":9132.68,"text":"但是委員知道那個個案"},{"start":9132.68,"end":9135.68,"text":"是因為他是涉及保險的問題"},{"start":9135.68,"end":9137.68,"text":"那是有另外一個層面的問題"},{"start":9137.68,"end":9139.68,"text":"如果他單純的只是證語"},{"start":9139.68,"end":9140.68,"text":"沒關係 不管是保險"},{"start":9140.68,"end":9141.68,"text":"就不會進入"},{"start":9141.68,"end":9142.68,"text":"我今天只是講"},{"start":9142.68,"end":9143.68,"text":"我沒有要"},{"start":9143.68,"end":9144.68,"text":"因為這個個案其實已經和解"},{"start":9144.68,"end":9146.68,"text":"我沒有要處理個案"},{"start":9146.82,"end":9148.82,"text":"但是我的意思是說"},{"start":9148.82,"end":9150.82,"text":"按照這個精神"},{"start":9150.82,"end":9152.82,"text":"不管他是兩年內或三年內"},{"start":9152.82,"end":9154.82,"text":"或五年之間"},{"start":9154.82,"end":9156.82,"text":"因為我們追剿一層"},{"start":9156.82,"end":9157.82,"text":"五年之間"},{"start":9157.82,"end":9159.82,"text":"如果有類似這樣的狀況的話"},{"start":9159.82,"end":9160.82,"text":"我們精神應該是"},{"start":9160.82,"end":9162.82,"text":"遺產歸誰"},{"start":9162.82,"end":9166.82,"text":"這個稅賦就應該是誰來負擔"},{"start":9166.82,"end":9168.82,"text":"不管他是不是裁判法人"},{"start":9168.82,"end":9170.82,"text":"或是沒有登記成裁判法人"},{"start":9170.82,"end":9171.82,"text":"廟宇"},{"start":9171.82,"end":9173.82,"text":"或者是有一個第三方的受益人"},{"start":9173.82,"end":9174.82,"text":"因為我們有"},{"start":9176.85,"end":9177.85,"text":"另外有證語稅"},{"start":9177.85,"end":9179.85,"text":"證語稅也就是補充"},{"start":9179.85,"end":9181.85,"text":"為了避免他會規避"},{"start":9181.85,"end":9182.85,"text":"遺產稅的問題"},{"start":9182.85,"end":9183.85,"text":"所以基本上"},{"start":9183.85,"end":9186.85,"text":"他如果是證語一般的人"},{"start":9186.85,"end":9188.85,"text":"不管他今天是兩年內一年內"},{"start":9188.85,"end":9189.85,"text":"那都沒有問題"},{"start":9189.85,"end":9190.85,"text":"不會被拉回來"},{"start":9190.85,"end":9191.85,"text":"如果是保險"},{"start":9191.85,"end":9193.85,"text":"如果類似是用保險的方式"},{"start":9193.85,"end":9194.85,"text":"用短假的方式"},{"start":9194.85,"end":9195.85,"text":"那怎麼處理"},{"start":9195.85,"end":9196.85,"text":"那我們就看說"},{"start":9196.85,"end":9198.85,"text":"因為那個是另外一個議題"},{"start":9198.85,"end":9199.85,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":9199.85,"end":9201.85,"text":"他並不是發生"},{"start":9201.85,"end":9203.85,"text":"並不是單純的證語"},{"start":9203.85,"end":9204.85,"text":"他因為要看保險"},{"start":9204.85,"end":9205.85,"text":"他要指定受益人"},{"start":9205.85,"end":9207.85,"text":"對 指定受益人"},{"start":9207.85,"end":9209.85,"text":"如果他今天指定受益人裡面"},{"start":9209.85,"end":9211.85,"text":"是屬於我們這個特種"},{"start":9211.85,"end":9214.85,"text":"就是指定的這些特定的親屬"},{"start":9214.85,"end":9215.85,"text":"包括配偶"},{"start":9215.85,"end":9217.85,"text":"包括他的各社會機制"},{"start":9217.85,"end":9219.85,"text":"如果是一般的人"},{"start":9219.85,"end":9221.85,"text":"他就是證語稅"},{"start":9221.85,"end":9223.85,"text":"就是一般的證語稅"},{"start":9223.85,"end":9224.85,"text":"所以是廟宇的話"},{"start":9224.85,"end":9226.85,"text":"也一樣是課廟宇"},{"start":9226.85,"end":9227.85,"text":"證語稅嗎"},{"start":9227.85,"end":9228.85,"text":"就是課證語稅"},{"start":9228.85,"end":9232.85,"text":"證語稅跟遺產稅的稅率是一樣的"},{"start":9232.85,"end":9235.85,"text":"不會在他被繼承人死亡的時候"},{"start":9235.85,"end":9238.85,"text":"再拉回來做擬製的遺產"},{"start":9239.97,"end":9242.97,"text":"我是這樣認定"},{"start":9242.97,"end":9244.97,"text":"部長 我的建議是這樣"},{"start":9244.97,"end":9246.97,"text":"大法官點名說"},{"start":9246.97,"end":9248.97,"text":"我們應該是回歸到"},{"start":9248.97,"end":9249.97,"text":"遺產歸誰"},{"start":9249.97,"end":9251.97,"text":"就是誰來去繳稅"},{"start":9251.97,"end":9252.97,"text":"邏輯上"},{"start":9252.97,"end":9253.97,"text":"我的看法是"},{"start":9253.97,"end":9254.97,"text":"不管他受益人"},{"start":9254.97,"end":9256.97,"text":"包括保險單也好"},{"start":9256.97,"end":9258.97,"text":"受益人哪怕是財團法人"},{"start":9258.97,"end":9260.97,"text":"或外面的公益團體"},{"start":9260.97,"end":9262.97,"text":"我都認為說"},{"start":9262.97,"end":9263.97,"text":"他不應該是"},{"start":9263.97,"end":9264.97,"text":"因為已經捐出去了"},{"start":9264.97,"end":9265.97,"text":"有指定第三方"},{"start":9265.97,"end":9267.97,"text":"他不應該是有繼承人"},{"start":9267.97,"end":9268.97,"text":"來去繳那個"},{"start":9268.97,"end":9270.97,"text":"繳那個遺產稅的部分"},{"start":9270.97,"end":9272.97,"text":"因為他沒有實質所得"},{"start":9272.97,"end":9273.97,"text":"我的精神是這樣"},{"start":9273.97,"end":9275.97,"text":"我今天答詢我的重點在這裡"},{"start":9275.97,"end":9277.97,"text":"所以我覺得在"},{"start":9277.97,"end":9280.97,"text":"總遺產稅制當中的架構當中"},{"start":9280.97,"end":9281.97,"text":"針對實質取得"},{"start":9281.97,"end":9283.97,"text":"包括保險給付的部分"},{"start":9283.97,"end":9285.97,"text":"還有非繼承受益人的部分"},{"start":9285.97,"end":9287.97,"text":"到底設計分擔比例"},{"start":9287.97,"end":9288.97,"text":"這個遺產分擔比例"},{"start":9288.97,"end":9290.97,"text":"稅賦或者是代位酋長"},{"start":9290.97,"end":9291.97,"text":"我們應該有一個相關的"},{"start":9291.97,"end":9293.97,"text":"補救機制在裡面討論才對"},{"start":9293.97,"end":9295.97,"text":"包括剛才我講的那個個案"},{"start":9295.97,"end":9297.97,"text":"其實應該是做這樣的思考才對"},{"start":9297.97,"end":9298.97,"text":"就是說應該是"},{"start":9298.97,"end":9300.97,"text":"回歸到大法官的解釋"},{"start":9300.97,"end":9301.97,"text":"遺產歸誰"},{"start":9301.97,"end":9302.97,"text":"哪怕他是財團法人"},{"start":9302.97,"end":9303.97,"text":"哪怕是公益團體"},{"start":9303.97,"end":9305.97,"text":"或者是他沒有被登記成"},{"start":9305.97,"end":9307.97,"text":"財團法人的妙語"},{"start":9307.97,"end":9309.97,"text":"我都覺得他不應該把那個"},{"start":9309.97,"end":9310.97,"text":"遺產稅制回歸到"},{"start":9312.85,"end":9314.85,"text":"回歸到總額裡面"},{"start":9314.85,"end":9315.85,"text":"繼承人來去負擔"},{"start":9315.85,"end":9317.85,"text":"這是我要提的精神的部分"},{"start":9317.85,"end":9319.85,"text":"另外一個我要跟部長討論的"},{"start":9319.85,"end":9320.85,"text":"就是最近"},{"start":9320.85,"end":9321.85,"text":"最近包括在高雄"},{"start":9321.85,"end":9323.85,"text":"有發布一個新聞就是"},{"start":9323.85,"end":9325.85,"text":"未來包括出售繼承"},{"start":9325.85,"end":9327.85,"text":"包括贈予的房地產的部分"},{"start":9327.85,"end":9329.85,"text":"我這邊就有一個個案就是說"},{"start":9329.85,"end":9330.85,"text":"我們現在就是稅率"},{"start":9330.85,"end":9332.85,"text":"我們從繼承的稅率部分"},{"start":9332.85,"end":9335.85,"text":"我們會從45%調到15%"},{"start":9335.85,"end":9337.85,"text":"有一個新就就是"},{"start":9337.85,"end":9338.85,"text":"買賣的部分"},{"start":9338.85,"end":9339.85,"text":"這個部分我是肯定"},{"start":9339.85,"end":9341.85,"text":"對納稅人來說當然是好事"},{"start":9341.85,"end":9343.85,"text":"但是我這邊有一個個案就是"},{"start":9343.85,"end":9345.85,"text":"在土地繼承的部分"},{"start":9345.85,"end":9347.85,"text":"財政部112年有一個韓市"},{"start":9347.85,"end":9349.85,"text":"就是未來繼承的部分"},{"start":9349.85,"end":9351.85,"text":"我有一個案例就是"},{"start":9351.85,"end":9353.85,"text":"有一個106年"},{"start":9353.85,"end":9356.85,"text":"有一個父親在106年"},{"start":9356.85,"end":9358.85,"text":"購置一個房地產"},{"start":9358.85,"end":9360.85,"text":"那106年的時候"},{"start":9360.85,"end":9362.85,"text":"父親過世了母親繼承"},{"start":9362.85,"end":9364.85,"text":"那107年的時候"},{"start":9364.85,"end":9365.85,"text":"這個賈君繼承之後"},{"start":9365.85,"end":9367.85,"text":"113年他房子出售"},{"start":9367.85,"end":9370.85,"text":"後來他就被罰了稅款"},{"start":9370.85,"end":9373.85,"text":"重點就是因為105年的時候"},{"start":9373.85,"end":9376.85,"text":"我們發布1月1號有房地合一稅"},{"start":9376.85,"end":9379.85,"text":"如果假設中間"},{"start":9379.85,"end":9382.85,"text":"賈母是在105年之前過世"},{"start":9384.25,"end":9386.25,"text":"105年過世"},{"start":9386.25,"end":9388.25,"text":"他在105年就繼承"},{"start":9388.25,"end":9390.25,"text":"同樣一個房子"},{"start":9390.28,"end":9392.28,"text":"他是不是就沒有房地合一稅"},{"start":9392.28,"end":9394.28,"text":"他就符合用舊制"},{"start":9395.05,"end":9396.05,"text":"對不對"},{"start":9396.91,"end":9397.91,"text":"主席"},{"start":9397.91,"end":9399.91,"text":"您剛剛提的那個保險的那個準授"},{"start":9399.91,"end":9401.91,"text":"然後又正宇的事"},{"start":9401.91,"end":9402.91,"text":"還有這個個案"},{"start":9402.91,"end":9404.91,"text":"是不是我們是會後請副稅署"},{"start":9404.91,"end":9406.91,"text":"跟您做一個說明好嗎"},{"start":9406.91,"end":9407.91,"text":"部長"},{"start":9407.91,"end":9409.91,"text":"我提的不是個案"},{"start":9409.91,"end":9412.91,"text":"我提的是一個精神的問題"},{"start":9412.91,"end":9415.91,"text":"到底新舊制的認定怎麼去做處理"},{"start":9415.91,"end":9418.91,"text":"我提的是一個憲法它的精神"},{"start":9418.91,"end":9420.91,"text":"是不是有違反平等原則的問題"},{"start":9420.91,"end":9421.91,"text":"公平性的問題"},{"start":9421.91,"end":9424.91,"text":"我覺得這個是應該你們去做思考的"},{"start":9424.91,"end":9425.91,"text":"因為同一個房子"},{"start":9425.91,"end":9426.91,"text":"同一個家庭"},{"start":9426.91,"end":9428.91,"text":"他沒有買賣"},{"start":9428.91,"end":9429.91,"text":"中間沒有買賣"},{"start":9429.91,"end":9431.91,"text":"自從母親又繼承"},{"start":9431.91,"end":9433.91,"text":"父親的房子中間母親繼承"},{"start":9433.91,"end":9435.91,"text":"然後最後兒子繼承"},{"start":9435.91,"end":9436.91,"text":"他如果早期"},{"start":9436.91,"end":9438.91,"text":"他如果母親過世的更早"},{"start":9438.91,"end":9439.91,"text":"他就直接是兒子繼承"},{"start":9439.91,"end":9441.91,"text":"就沒有房地合一稅"},{"start":9441.91,"end":9442.91,"text":"他就符合用舊制"},{"start":9442.91,"end":9444.91,"text":"所以我提的是一個"},{"start":9444.91,"end":9446.91,"text":"是一個精神上的問題"},{"start":9446.91,"end":9448.91,"text":"而不是一個繼承幾次的問題"},{"start":9450.1,"end":9452.1,"text":"他不是因為買賣而獲利"},{"start":9452.1,"end":9453.1,"text":"你了解我意思嗎"},{"start":9453.1,"end":9454.1,"text":"了解了解"},{"start":9454.1,"end":9456.1,"text":"委員的精神出發點是"},{"start":9456.1,"end":9457.1,"text":"基於合理性"},{"start":9457.1,"end":9458.1,"text":"我們都接受"},{"start":9458.1,"end":9460.1,"text":"然後我們來跟委員做一個說明"},{"start":9460.1,"end":9463.1,"text":"我覺得你們應該在一個總架構之下"},{"start":9463.1,"end":9465.1,"text":"去想一下這個問題怎麼去做處理"},{"start":9465.1,"end":9466.1,"text":"是是是"},{"start":9466.1,"end":9468.1,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":9468.1,"end":9470.1,"text":"現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":9547.74,"end":9548.74,"text":"不是有嗎"},{"start":9635.37,"end":9636.37,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9782.87,"end":9783.87,"text":"請大家回座"},{"start":9787.9,"end":9788.9,"text":"現在繼續開會"},{"start":9788.9,"end":9791.9,"text":"下一位請王世堅委員質詢"},{"start":9804.29,"end":9805.29,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":9805.29,"end":9807.29,"text":"我請財政部莊部長"},{"start":9807.29,"end":9809.29,"text":"請財政部莊部長"},{"start":9814.24,"end":9815.24,"text":"委員好"},{"start":9815.24,"end":9816.24,"text":"部長你辛苦了"},{"start":9817.2,"end":9819.2,"text":"我今天兩個問題"},{"start":9820.39,"end":9824.39,"text":"第一個問題就是關於國票金控"},{"start":9824.81,"end":9828.81,"text":"國票金控是我們所有"},{"start":9829.85,"end":9833.85,"text":"公民營金控當中規模最小的一個"},{"start":9834.88,"end":9838.88,"text":"那它不但規模規模不但最小"},{"start":9838.88,"end":9841.88,"text":"它獲利也最低"},{"start":9841.88,"end":9845.88,"text":"但是它卻有著很奇怪的這種不當的"},{"start":9847.12,"end":9850.12,"text":"這種人事開銷就是說"},{"start":9850.12,"end":9853.12,"text":"它竟然設有副董事長"},{"start":9853.12,"end":9859.12,"text":"而這位副董事長年薪還高達兩千萬"},{"start":9860.18,"end":9865.18,"text":"部長我曾經問過說我們公股的金控"},{"start":9866.03,"end":9871.03,"text":"不管是台銀金、兆豐金、合庫金、華南金"},{"start":9871.03,"end":9875.03,"text":"人家他們的董事長"},{"start":9875.03,"end":9878.03,"text":"像台灣銀行金控"},{"start":9879.43,"end":9880.43,"text":"台銀金"},{"start":9881.22,"end":9883.22,"text":"董事長年薪才三百萬"},{"start":9884.46,"end":9887.46,"text":"就即便是第一金、華南金"},{"start":9887.46,"end":9888.46,"text":"人家也是"},{"start":9889.46,"end":9892.46,"text":"大概三百萬到五百萬"},{"start":9893.86,"end":9895.86,"text":"這個最小的國票金"},{"start":9896.9,"end":9898.9,"text":"還不是董事長喔"},{"start":9898.9,"end":9901.9,"text":"光副董事長就年薪兩千萬"},{"start":9901.9,"end":9903.9,"text":"這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":9904.76,"end":9905.76,"text":"更何況"},{"start":9906.48,"end":9907.48,"text":"更大的"},{"start":9909.1,"end":9912.1,"text":"更劃利更高的這些大金控"},{"start":9915.04,"end":9918.04,"text":"都沒有設副董事長"},{"start":9918.04,"end":9923.04,"text":"偏偏全國公民營裡面最小的這一個"},{"start":9924.3,"end":9927.3,"text":"他獨獨只有他設副董事長"},{"start":9927.3,"end":9929.3,"text":"那你們給我的答覆是說"},{"start":9929.3,"end":9931.3,"text":"另外還有一個問題"},{"start":9931.3,"end":9932.3,"text":"還有一個問題就是說"},{"start":9932.3,"end":9936.3,"text":"我們長年持有國票金"},{"start":9936.3,"end":9938.3,"text":"那我們的股份也高過民股"},{"start":9938.3,"end":9939.3,"text":"是不是"},{"start":9939.3,"end":9940.3,"text":"要不然這樣"},{"start":9940.3,"end":9942.3,"text":"為了整頓他"},{"start":9942.3,"end":9946.3,"text":"那是不是我們公股來併掉這個"},{"start":9947.49,"end":9949.49,"text":"整個國票金"},{"start":9949.49,"end":9951.49,"text":"那你們的答覆也是說"},{"start":9951.49,"end":9953.49,"text":"沒有那個計畫"},{"start":9953.49,"end":9954.49,"text":"沒有那個什麼"},{"start":9954.49,"end":9956.49,"text":"你們的答覆很簡單啦"},{"start":9956.49,"end":9957.49,"text":"你們的答覆我說"},{"start":9957.49,"end":9958.49,"text":"因為"},{"start":9959.84,"end":9964.84,"text":"這個國票金非本部直屬投資事業"},{"start":9964.84,"end":9965.84,"text":"你就答覆說"},{"start":9965.84,"end":9968.84,"text":"這個不是你們直屬的投資事業"},{"start":9968.84,"end":9969.84,"text":"那怎麼辦"},{"start":9970.66,"end":9972.66,"text":"不是你直屬的投資事業"},{"start":9972.66,"end":9978.66,"text":"但是是由你財政部旗下的這些公股行庫"},{"start":9978.66,"end":9980.66,"text":"他們去持有這些股份啊"},{"start":9981.96,"end":9983.96,"text":"那就是當初買這些股份而已"},{"start":9983.96,"end":9984.96,"text":"買來"},{"start":9984.96,"end":9986.96,"text":"不想要買什麼意思"},{"start":9986.96,"end":9989.96,"text":"然後現在我們股份也那麼大了"},{"start":9989.96,"end":9991.96,"text":"把它收回自己管"},{"start":9991.96,"end":9992.96,"text":"你們也不肯"},{"start":9994.32,"end":9996.32,"text":"那這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":9996.32,"end":9997.32,"text":"所以我首先問你啊"},{"start":9997.32,"end":9998.32,"text":"就是說"},{"start":9998.32,"end":10000.32,"text":"為什麼要設副董事長"},{"start":10000.32,"end":10002.32,"text":"為什麼這麼高薪"},{"start":10003.29,"end":10005.29,"text":"其他金剛都沒有啊"},{"start":10005.29,"end":10006.29,"text":"就只有他有"},{"start":10007.23,"end":10009.23,"text":"這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":10009.23,"end":10010.23,"text":"而且聘了這一位"},{"start":10010.23,"end":10013.23,"text":"還並不是什麼有名的說"},{"start":10013.23,"end":10015.23,"text":"財經學者專業的"},{"start":10016.56,"end":10017.56,"text":"獨龍不是"},{"start":10018.89,"end":10019.89,"text":"竟然是"},{"start":10021.1,"end":10023.1,"text":"這個我就不提"},{"start":10023.1,"end":10024.1,"text":"那你的看法呢"},{"start":10026.36,"end":10027.36,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":10027.36,"end":10028.36,"text":"有關國票金控"},{"start":10028.36,"end":10031.36,"text":"他有關副董事長的一個設置"},{"start":10031.36,"end":10033.36,"text":"第一個他在章程裡面"},{"start":10033.36,"end":10034.36,"text":"本身就有說"},{"start":10034.36,"end":10036.36,"text":"必要時得設置副董事長"},{"start":10036.36,"end":10038.36,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":10038.36,"end":10039.36,"text":"然後他選任方式"},{"start":10039.36,"end":10041.36,"text":"也必須依照公司法的規定"},{"start":10041.36,"end":10043.36,"text":"我想這個部分在章程裡面"},{"start":10043.36,"end":10045.36,"text":"本身他必須有相關的規範"},{"start":10045.36,"end":10047.36,"text":"第二個國票金是從100年開始"},{"start":10047.36,"end":10050.36,"text":"他就根據章程設有副董事長"},{"start":10050.36,"end":10052.36,"text":"而這一任的副董事長"},{"start":10052.36,"end":10053.36,"text":"當時的一些設置"},{"start":10053.36,"end":10055.36,"text":"也是經過他們公司"},{"start":10055.36,"end":10057.36,"text":"依照公司法的規定"},{"start":10057.36,"end":10060.36,"text":"經過相關的程序以後完成的"},{"start":10060.36,"end":10061.36,"text":"我想這是他們公司"},{"start":10061.36,"end":10064.36,"text":"他現在是由我們公股在掌控的"},{"start":10064.36,"end":10065.36,"text":"是 對"},{"start":10065.36,"end":10069.36,"text":"那這個所謂的人事章程不能更改嗎"},{"start":10069.36,"end":10071.36,"text":"有公股也有民股是共治的"},{"start":10071.36,"end":10073.36,"text":"我想這個國票金裡面"},{"start":10073.36,"end":10074.36,"text":"不是全部都是公股"},{"start":10074.36,"end":10075.36,"text":"也還有民股"},{"start":10075.36,"end":10078.36,"text":"但是我們公股在控制不是嗎"},{"start":10078.36,"end":10080.36,"text":"這裡面還有民股"},{"start":10080.36,"end":10082.36,"text":"那都沒辦法去更改嗎"},{"start":10082.36,"end":10083.36,"text":"我想這個部分"},{"start":10083.36,"end":10084.36,"text":"目前是這樣"},{"start":10084.36,"end":10089.36,"text":"那後續當然會基於他們公司經營策略的規劃"},{"start":10089.36,"end":10092.36,"text":"後續如果他們以公司治理的一個規範去做處理"},{"start":10094.66,"end":10096.66,"text":"好啦 你說我請"},{"start":10096.66,"end":10098.66,"text":"你就是要求他們去改善嗎"},{"start":10098.66,"end":10099.66,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":10099.66,"end":10101.66,"text":"那要多久吧"},{"start":10101.66,"end":10103.66,"text":"要多久可以解決這個問題"},{"start":10103.66,"end":10105.66,"text":"另外我們是不是請"},{"start":10105.66,"end":10106.66,"text":"我們持有股份"},{"start":10106.66,"end":10110.66,"text":"我們像公股的兆豐金第一金"},{"start":10110.66,"end":10113.66,"text":"看他們願不願意來並調"},{"start":10113.91,"end":10114.91,"text":"這個國票金"},{"start":10114.91,"end":10117.91,"text":"它有很多確實是需要"},{"start":10118.3,"end":10119.3,"text":"喔"},{"start":10119.48,"end":10121.48,"text":"更有能力"},{"start":10121.48,"end":10123.48,"text":"像我們公股有這麼多有能力的"},{"start":10123.48,"end":10125.48,"text":"經營的那麼好的"},{"start":10125.48,"end":10129.48,"text":"用那個台銀金控也可以啊"},{"start":10129.48,"end":10131.48,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":10132.19,"end":10134.19,"text":"你看吧"},{"start":10133.81,"end":10134.81,"text":"我想謝謝"},{"start":10134.81,"end":10136.81,"text":"不是要做個整頓嘛"},{"start":10136.81,"end":10137.81,"text":"謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":10137.81,"end":10140.81,"text":"當然當然這個公司應該要提升"},{"start":10140.81,"end":10143.81,"text":"第一個要把他的公司治理上軌道"},{"start":10143.81,"end":10146.81,"text":"然後要提升他的一個經營績效"},{"start":10146.81,"end":10149.81,"text":"那我想這個部分應該要先去推動的"},{"start":10149.81,"end":10151.81,"text":"至於後續的下一步呢"},{"start":10151.81,"end":10154.81,"text":"我們當然要兼顧到所謂的相關的法規"},{"start":10154.81,"end":10155.81,"text":"市場的機制"},{"start":10155.81,"end":10158.81,"text":"還有員工的權益都必須要去考慮到"},{"start":10158.81,"end":10159.81,"text":"那我想委員這個建議"},{"start":10159.81,"end":10161.81,"text":"我們也會納入演義"},{"start":10161.81,"end":10163.81,"text":"然後另外我想我跟委員報告"},{"start":10163.81,"end":10166.81,"text":"其實在公股的部分提升經營績效"},{"start":10166.81,"end":10169.81,"text":"我們目前來說有市家金控的投信"},{"start":10169.81,"end":10171.81,"text":"會在已經在推動所謂的"},{"start":10171.81,"end":10172.81,"text":"我們把它合併"},{"start":10172.81,"end":10174.81,"text":"然後併為一個"},{"start":10174.81,"end":10176.81,"text":"然後讓這個市場的規模可以更大"},{"start":10176.81,"end":10178.81,"text":"這是持續我們在做推動的"},{"start":10178.81,"end":10179.81,"text":"那國票金未來"},{"start":10179.81,"end":10182.81,"text":"我們先把那個公司治理讓上軌道"},{"start":10182.81,"end":10184.81,"text":"然後提升他的營運績效"},{"start":10185.58,"end":10186.58,"text":"是"},{"start":10186.58,"end":10187.58,"text":"一併考量啦"},{"start":10187.58,"end":10188.58,"text":"好不好"},{"start":10188.58,"end":10189.58,"text":"當然"},{"start":10189.58,"end":10193.58,"text":"因為國票金還有其他出的狀況"},{"start":10193.58,"end":10195.58,"text":"我今天是來不及敘述"},{"start":10195.58,"end":10199.58,"text":"那我覺得乾脆避其功於一億"},{"start":10199.58,"end":10202.58,"text":"那就是由我們找我們公股的行戶"},{"start":10202.58,"end":10206.58,"text":"既然我們現在股份已經高於民股"},{"start":10206.58,"end":10208.58,"text":"那是不是乾脆就由我們把它合併"},{"start":10208.58,"end":10213.58,"text":"因為很清楚當初副董事長這樣的職務"},{"start":10213.58,"end":10216.58,"text":"完全是百分之百的酬庸"},{"start":10216.58,"end":10221.58,"text":"他的工作只有董事長因故不能執行職務"},{"start":10221.58,"end":10223.58,"text":"那個副董事長來代理"},{"start":10223.58,"end":10227.58,"text":"那麼舉凡那麼多年的經營裡面"},{"start":10227.58,"end":10231.58,"text":"那董事長不能視察實務那個事實上"},{"start":10232.14,"end":10233.14,"text":"根本沒幾次"},{"start":10233.14,"end":10236.14,"text":"而且台北市就這麼一丁點大"},{"start":10236.14,"end":10238.14,"text":"他公司就在台北市"},{"start":10238.14,"end":10242.14,"text":"有什麼需要說副董事長代轉給董事長的"},{"start":10242.14,"end":10244.14,"text":"然後年薪是兩千萬"},{"start":10244.14,"end":10248.14,"text":"這看在所有不管是公營行庫"},{"start":10248.14,"end":10251.14,"text":"民營行庫裡面這個都不成體統"},{"start":10251.14,"end":10252.14,"text":"好不好"},{"start":10252.14,"end":10253.14,"text":"後部長"},{"start":10253.14,"end":10254.14,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10254.14,"end":10257.14,"text":"不能說這個不是你們直屬的"},{"start":10257.14,"end":10259.14,"text":"這個投資不能這樣"},{"start":10259.14,"end":10261.14,"text":"因為他畢竟"},{"start":10261.14,"end":10265.14,"text":"他畢竟是你旗下公股行庫"},{"start":10265.14,"end":10267.14,"text":"他們去持股的好不好"},{"start":10267.14,"end":10269.14,"text":"我們會積極的"},{"start":10269.14,"end":10275.14,"text":"我們時間內就要迎來現在新清安的3.0版"},{"start":10275.14,"end":10277.14,"text":"這是非常好的一件事情"},{"start":10277.14,"end":10279.14,"text":"我看民間"},{"start":10279.14,"end":10282.14,"text":"那個很多民間要購屋者"},{"start":10282.14,"end":10284.14,"text":"他們都因應期盼"},{"start":10284.14,"end":10286.14,"text":"尤其是青年購屋族"},{"start":10286.14,"end":10288.14,"text":"不過這個"},{"start":10288.72,"end":10289.72,"text":"部長"},{"start":10289.72,"end":10292.72,"text":"我們在限制說清安貸款"},{"start":10292.72,"end":10294.72,"text":"現在額度一樣就是一千萬"},{"start":10294.72,"end":10297.72,"text":"那我們有加分寓宅加兩百萬"},{"start":10297.72,"end":10301.72,"text":"那育兒宅可以到一千五百萬"},{"start":10301.72,"end":10304.72,"text":"但是在台北市的部分"},{"start":10304.72,"end":10306.72,"text":"我覺得有這兩個問題"},{"start":10306.72,"end":10308.72,"text":"蠻傷腦筋的啦"},{"start":10308.72,"end":10311.72,"text":"就是說你所得上限"},{"start":10311.72,"end":10314.72,"text":"那你限兩百萬"},{"start":10314.72,"end":10317.72,"text":"還有我們貸款的總額度"},{"start":10317.72,"end":10320.72,"text":"雖然有略高於其他縣市"},{"start":10320.72,"end":10323.72,"text":"但是台北市的房價"},{"start":10323.72,"end":10326.72,"text":"那麼待會您可以看列出來的"},{"start":10326.72,"end":10330.72,"text":"很多的地方多數地方平均價格幾乎"},{"start":10330.72,"end":10333.72,"text":"是外縣市的兩倍"},{"start":10333.72,"end":10336.72,"text":"甚至是中南部的三倍之多"},{"start":10337.86,"end":10339.86,"text":"你看"},{"start":10341.22,"end":10342.22,"text":"每平層交價"},{"start":10342.22,"end":10344.22,"text":"不管新舊屋平均下來"},{"start":10344.22,"end":10347.22,"text":"台北市是八十一萬八"},{"start":10347.22,"end":10350.22,"text":"新北市四十五萬二"},{"start":10351,"end":10354,"text":"等於將近兩倍之高"},{"start":10354,"end":10358,"text":"那如果說跟桃園台中相比"},{"start":10358,"end":10361,"text":"那等於是將近三倍"},{"start":10361,"end":10365,"text":"所以你增加給他能夠的貸款的額度"},{"start":10365,"end":10367,"text":"就多那麼一點點"},{"start":10367,"end":10371,"text":"那這個額度是不是可以適度再提高"},{"start":10371,"end":10374,"text":"否則同樣的額度"},{"start":10374,"end":10378,"text":"同樣你們設限貸款的總金額"},{"start":10378,"end":10381,"text":"那麼在台北買的"},{"start":10381,"end":10383,"text":"大概就是只能買個小套房"},{"start":10383,"end":10385,"text":"沒辦法家裡"},{"start":10385,"end":10387,"text":"別說三代同堂了啦"},{"start":10387,"end":10392,"text":"要這個生兒育兒兩代住一起都困難"},{"start":10392,"end":10395,"text":"那另外一點就是說關於婚育宅"},{"start":10395,"end":10398,"text":"你們有增加他兩百萬的額度"},{"start":10398,"end":10399,"text":"貸款額度"},{"start":10399,"end":10402,"text":"那育兒宅增加到五百萬"},{"start":10402,"end":10405,"text":"增加又增加三百萬"},{"start":10405,"end":10406,"text":"但是"},{"start":10407.32,"end":10408.32,"text":"寬限期了"},{"start":10409.09,"end":10410.09,"text":"我們就此"},{"start":10411.11,"end":10415.11,"text":"比方說我們比方一對年輕的夫妻要結婚"},{"start":10415.11,"end":10418.11,"text":"他來買這樣子的育兒宅"},{"start":10418.11,"end":10420.11,"text":"以這個名義來買"},{"start":10420.11,"end":10423.11,"text":"新婚那一年"},{"start":10423.11,"end":10425.11,"text":"懷孕生小孩"},{"start":10425.11,"end":10429.11,"text":"那小孩六歲以前最需要照顧"},{"start":10429.11,"end":10430.11,"text":"花費也最多"},{"start":10430.11,"end":10433.11,"text":"這樣加起來也要七年啊"},{"start":10433.71,"end":10438.71,"text":"所以我認為說我們如果硬性規定只能五年"},{"start":10438.71,"end":10440.71,"text":"比照一般都是五年"},{"start":10440.71,"end":10443.71,"text":"我們將是為得不足啦"},{"start":10443.71,"end":10445.71,"text":"所以我認為說"},{"start":10445.71,"end":10446.71,"text":"就不差那麼一點"},{"start":10446.71,"end":10450.71,"text":"應該真正要育兒的新婚夫妻"},{"start":10450.71,"end":10454.71,"text":"是不是我們應該放寬這個寬限期"},{"start":10454.71,"end":10457.71,"text":"把五年再放寬兩年"},{"start":10457.71,"end":10459.71,"text":"因為這是比較特殊的情況"},{"start":10459.71,"end":10461.71,"text":"現在我們少子化"},{"start":10461.71,"end":10464.71,"text":"少子化到非常嚴重的國安問題"},{"start":10464.71,"end":10465.71,"text":"好不好"},{"start":10467.83,"end":10468.83,"text":"指教"},{"start":10468.83,"end":10471.83,"text":"我想這個我們3.0是經過多次會議討論結果"},{"start":10471.83,"end":10474.83,"text":"那您剛剛提到的婚育宅的寬限期"},{"start":10474.83,"end":10477.83,"text":"我想剛剛我們也提到就是說"},{"start":10477.83,"end":10479.83,"text":"其實對於少子化這個問題"},{"start":10479.83,"end":10481.83,"text":"政府是整套政策在做的"},{"start":10481.83,"end":10483.83,"text":"所以我們有一個人口對策的新戰略"},{"start":10483.83,"end":10486.83,"text":"裡面包含對育兒家庭的公托"},{"start":10486.83,"end":10487.83,"text":"托育補助"},{"start":10487.83,"end":10489.83,"text":"育兒補助以及成長經貼"},{"start":10489.83,"end":10492.83,"text":"是有許多用現金直接給予補助的"},{"start":10492.83,"end":10493.83,"text":"我想這個部分"},{"start":10493.83,"end":10495.83,"text":"可以強化他們的"},{"start":10495.83,"end":10497.83,"text":"你回去好好研究"},{"start":10497.83,"end":10500.83,"text":"差那兩年差非常多"},{"start":10500.83,"end":10503.83,"text":"這個也要考慮他們的財產"},{"start":10503.83,"end":10508.83,"text":"如果有辦法通過審核條件來貸款到的"},{"start":10508.83,"end":10511.83,"text":"他們也都有償還能力"},{"start":10511.83,"end":10513.83,"text":"不差那兩年的寬限期"},{"start":10513.83,"end":10514.83,"text":"謝謝王委員"},{"start":10514.83,"end":10517.83,"text":"那就請財政部研究完之後"},{"start":10517.83,"end":10519.83,"text":"再跟王委員書面報告"},{"start":10519.83,"end":10520.83,"text":"我們也書面報告"},{"start":10520.83,"end":10522.83,"text":"是謝謝謝謝委員指教謝謝"},{"start":10523.96,"end":10526.96,"text":"下一位請羅明財委員諮詢"},{"start":10536.78,"end":10538.78,"text":"主席各位主席"},{"start":10538.78,"end":10542.78,"text":"主席可不可以請陳志全部長"},{"start":10543.09,"end":10547.09,"text":"請財政部莊部長"},{"start":10547.09,"end":10548.09,"text":"官務署彭署長"},{"start":10549.34,"end":10550.34,"text":"好"},{"start":10550.84,"end":10551.84,"text":"部長你好"},{"start":10552.51,"end":10553.51,"text":"委員好"},{"start":10553.51,"end":10554.51,"text":"在十年前"},{"start":10554.51,"end":10557.51,"text":"台灣股市的市值大概多少"},{"start":10564.96,"end":10566.96,"text":"大概幾兆市值應該是"},{"start":10566.96,"end":10569.96,"text":"大概不到不到20兆"},{"start":10569.96,"end":10571.96,"text":"那現在的市值是多少"},{"start":10574.78,"end":10576.78,"text":"大概160兆"},{"start":10576.78,"end":10577.78,"text":"那我們看到"},{"start":10577.78,"end":10578.78,"text":"就第四兆"},{"start":10578.78,"end":10581.78,"text":"增加稅搶棍"},{"start":10581.78,"end":10584.78,"text":"去年增加稅大概是變多少"},{"start":10585.7,"end":10587.7,"text":"您說去年是不是"},{"start":10587.7,"end":10589.7,"text":"去年114年還是"},{"start":10589.7,"end":10590.7,"text":"是114"},{"start":10590.7,"end":10593.7,"text":"114年的增加稅是"},{"start":10593.7,"end":10594.7,"text":"我看一下"},{"start":10596.03,"end":10600.03,"text":"114年我們的增加稅收起的是"},{"start":10600.03,"end":10602.03,"text":"增加稅是收了多少"},{"start":10602.03,"end":10603.03,"text":"我們再查一下"},{"start":10603.03,"end":10608.03,"text":"大概是變3800億左右吧"},{"start":10608.74,"end":10612.74,"text":"114年我們是編了2694億"},{"start":10612.74,"end":10615.74,"text":"那時收是2928億"},{"start":10615.74,"end":10617.74,"text":"大概3000"},{"start":10617.74,"end":10619.74,"text":"那請問"},{"start":10619.74,"end":10621.74,"text":"今年的部分增加稅"},{"start":10621.74,"end":10624.74,"text":"其實目前為止已經多少了"},{"start":10624.74,"end":10628.74,"text":"目前為止增加稅到我們6月底的統計"},{"start":10628.74,"end":10633.74,"text":"增加稅是收了3336億"},{"start":10633.74,"end":10634.74,"text":"那"},{"start":10635.57,"end":10638.57,"text":"那預估這樣算起來的話"},{"start":10638.57,"end":10640.57,"text":"如果沒有太大變動"},{"start":10640.57,"end":10644.57,"text":"增加稅今年的稅率應該有多少"},{"start":10644.57,"end":10647.57,"text":"增加稅今年如果我們大概現在出估的話"},{"start":10647.57,"end":10649.57,"text":"可能會超過6000億吧"},{"start":10649.57,"end":10652.57,"text":"全年會超過6000億"},{"start":10652.57,"end":10654.57,"text":"那6000簡直大概"},{"start":10654.57,"end":10656.57,"text":"那我算了一下"},{"start":10656.57,"end":10659.57,"text":"應該是每個人分6000億"},{"start":10659.57,"end":10661.57,"text":"那6000簡直大概"},{"start":10661.57,"end":10663.57,"text":"那我算了一下"},{"start":10663.57,"end":10666.57,"text":"應該是每個人普發現金1萬"},{"start":10666.57,"end":10667.57,"text":"是OK的啊"},{"start":10667.57,"end":10669.57,"text":"有錢啊"},{"start":10669.57,"end":10670.57,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":10670.57,"end":10675.57,"text":"我想政府的財政要考慮整體的一個韌性"},{"start":10675.57,"end":10677.57,"text":"跟國家建設的一樣"},{"start":10677.57,"end":10678.57,"text":"韌性也很好啊"},{"start":10678.57,"end":10680.57,"text":"你大概三四年前的話"},{"start":10680.57,"end":10681.57,"text":"那還要考"},{"start":10681.57,"end":10682.57,"text":"舉債的問題"},{"start":10682.57,"end":10683.57,"text":"還有舉債"},{"start":10683.57,"end":10685.57,"text":"大概抓五年前"},{"start":10685.57,"end":10688.57,"text":"五年前的時候稅率大概是變多少"},{"start":10688.57,"end":10690.57,"text":"一整年度"},{"start":10690.57,"end":10692.57,"text":"我們要再看一下實際的數字"},{"start":10692.57,"end":10694.57,"text":"那跟委員報告"},{"start":10694.57,"end":10696.57,"text":"其實在財化法修了以後"},{"start":10696.57,"end":10699.57,"text":"我們的營業稅本來的收入是"},{"start":10699.57,"end":10701.57,"text":"小英總統那個時期"},{"start":10701.57,"end":10703.57,"text":"變成只有1、200億了"},{"start":10703.57,"end":10704.57,"text":"小英那個時期的時候"},{"start":10704.57,"end":10706.57,"text":"大概是大概1兆8吧"},{"start":10706.57,"end":10708.57,"text":"2兆"},{"start":10708.8,"end":10710.8,"text":"那我們現在已經成長到"},{"start":10710.8,"end":10712.8,"text":"快3兆多了"},{"start":10712.8,"end":10714.8,"text":"成到2千億"},{"start":10714.8,"end":10716.8,"text":"所以其實"},{"start":10717.88,"end":10719.88,"text":"錢很多啊"},{"start":10720.33,"end":10722.33,"text":"因為稅率增加很多"},{"start":10722.33,"end":10724.33,"text":"那我剛剛提的就是說"},{"start":10725.54,"end":10731.54,"text":"既然現在K型化的社會結構已經到來"},{"start":10731.54,"end":10733.54,"text":"一般的基層民眾"},{"start":10733.54,"end":10735.54,"text":"真的熬熬待哺啦"},{"start":10737.19,"end":10739.19,"text":"真的賺錢的就是"},{"start":10739.19,"end":10741.19,"text":"AI啊 半導體啊"},{"start":10741.19,"end":10742.19,"text":"那些電子啊"},{"start":10742.19,"end":10744.19,"text":"那些傳統的部分"},{"start":10744.19,"end":10748.19,"text":"大概很多類股已經跌破了20年線"},{"start":10748.19,"end":10751.19,"text":"所以本席一直主張多多來照顧年輕人"},{"start":10751.19,"end":10753.19,"text":"多多來照顧"},{"start":10753.96,"end":10756.96,"text":"辛苦的 一般的大眾"},{"start":10756.96,"end":10758.96,"text":"普發獻金以外"},{"start":10758.96,"end":10759.96,"text":"勢在必行啊"},{"start":10760.54,"end":10763.54,"text":"你不做 地方都在做啦"},{"start":10763.54,"end":10765.54,"text":"今天有很多地方"},{"start":10765.54,"end":10767.54,"text":"稅務單位啊"},{"start":10767.54,"end":10769.54,"text":"大概陸陸續續幾年度"},{"start":10769.54,"end":10774.54,"text":"發5千、發6千、發8千的"},{"start":10774.54,"end":10777.54,"text":"大概有幾個地方已經開始普發獻金了"},{"start":10779.11,"end":10782.11,"text":"我想這個部分要跟您說明一下"},{"start":10782.11,"end":10784.11,"text":"政府的收入是要"},{"start":10784.11,"end":10787.11,"text":"當然要做資源最妥善的分配"},{"start":10787.11,"end":10791.11,"text":"對於未成年人或者是"},{"start":10791.11,"end":10793.11,"text":"我先講那個中小微企業好了"},{"start":10793.11,"end":10797.11,"text":"政府已經要提出中小微企業轉型升級的方案"},{"start":10797.11,"end":10800.11,"text":"那在這裡面我們對於傳統的"},{"start":10800.11,"end":10802.11,"text":"除了要支持它轉型升級"},{"start":10802.11,"end":10805.11,"text":"然後AI化、運用化、職人工智慧化"},{"start":10805.11,"end":10808.11,"text":"要讓它跟上這個整個的一個產業鏈"},{"start":10808.11,"end":10809.11,"text":"這個部分要做"},{"start":10809.11,"end":10812.11,"text":"那對於所謂的青年們的一個支持"},{"start":10812.11,"end":10814.11,"text":"政府也是全面向的在做"},{"start":10814.11,"end":10816.11,"text":"多方面的來做"},{"start":10816.11,"end":10818.11,"text":"包含企業的支持"},{"start":10818.11,"end":10820.11,"text":"然後有在一個職業環境"},{"start":10820.11,"end":10821.11,"text":"我想"},{"start":10821.11,"end":10822.11,"text":"因為我時間有限"},{"start":10822.11,"end":10825.11,"text":"地方政府剛剛說要遞假稅、房屋稅減免"},{"start":10825.11,"end":10827.11,"text":"通通要做加補助"},{"start":10827.11,"end":10828.11,"text":"可是卻在發現金"},{"start":10828.11,"end":10829.11,"text":"我想這個部分"},{"start":10829.11,"end":10833.11,"text":"財政的資源是要做一個非常有效的運用"},{"start":10833.11,"end":10835.11,"text":"部長 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今天問題都沒有回答"},{"start":10868.14,"end":10870.14,"text":"我給你幾分鐘"},{"start":10870.14,"end":10873.14,"text":"你趕快把剛剛問的問題回答我一下"},{"start":10873.14,"end":10874.14,"text":"請說"},{"start":10874.67,"end":10875.67,"text":"剛剛委員報告"},{"start":10875.67,"end":10881.67,"text":"我們有做客服的服務的滿意度"},{"start":10881.67,"end":10882.67,"text":"是多少"},{"start":10882.67,"end":10883.67,"text":"是98點多"},{"start":10883.67,"end":10885.67,"text":"98點多"},{"start":10885.67,"end":10889.67,"text":"98 表示民眾對於普發現金有他殷切期盼"},{"start":10889.67,"end":10890.67,"text":"再繞回來"},{"start":10890.67,"end":10892.67,"text":"剛剛講說地方政府"},{"start":10892.67,"end":10895.67,"text":"每個地方都有發普發現金"},{"start":10895.67,"end":10897.67,"text":"5000 8000 情況是怎麼樣"},{"start":10899.46,"end":10903.46,"text":"地方政府應該看他們自己的財力負擔"},{"start":10903.46,"end":10905.46,"text":"來看誰來講"},{"start":10905.46,"end":10907.46,"text":"像新竹市有發"},{"start":10907.46,"end":10909.46,"text":"來新竹發多少"},{"start":10908.84,"end":10909.84,"text":"3000是不是"},{"start":10909.84,"end":10911.84,"text":"來 有發的上來一下好了"},{"start":10912.99,"end":10913.99,"text":"時間暫停一下"},{"start":10920.54,"end":10922.54,"text":"請上來 那棚屋也有發"},{"start":10922.98,"end":10923.98,"text":"彰化有發"},{"start":10926,"end":10928,"text":"部長 有發的你有沒有統計"},{"start":10928,"end":10929,"text":"他們都不敢上來"},{"start":10929.77,"end":10931.77,"text":"地方政府他們在發"},{"start":10931.77,"end":10932.77,"text":"為什麼他們不敢上來"},{"start":10932.77,"end":10933.77,"text":"地方財政"},{"start":10933.77,"end":10934.77,"text":"那不敢上來"},{"start":10934.77,"end":10935.77,"text":"為什麼不敢"},{"start":10935.77,"end":10936.77,"text":"因為剛剛他們都舉手說"},{"start":10936.77,"end":10939.77,"text":"要補助三五億的老人"},{"start":10939.77,"end":10941.77,"text":"那兩件嘛"},{"start":10941.77,"end":10942.77,"text":"你該做的做嘛"},{"start":10942.77,"end":10944.77,"text":"對小孩照顧照顧嘛"},{"start":10944.77,"end":10946.77,"text":"對老人也要啊"},{"start":10946.77,"end":10948.77,"text":"地方要發的情況是怎麼樣"},{"start":10950.81,"end":10954.81,"text":"地方財政單位都在這邊嘛"},{"start":10954.81,"end":10956.81,"text":"我想他們可以做說明的"},{"start":10956.81,"end":10958.81,"text":"那部長你請他們有發的上來講一下"},{"start":10958.81,"end":10960.81,"text":"那要委員請啊"},{"start":10960.81,"end":10961.81,"text":"不是我請啊"},{"start":10961.81,"end":10962.81,"text":"我請啊"},{"start":10962.81,"end":10963.81,"text":"那個趙委請一下"},{"start":10963.81,"end":10965.81,"text":"有發的請他上來一下"},{"start":10965.81,"end":10966.81,"text":"你要指定哪一個縣市啊"},{"start":10966.81,"end":10968.81,"text":"都不能哪一個縣市全部都來"},{"start":10968.81,"end":10971.81,"text":"他大概有發的大概有八個縣市"},{"start":10971.81,"end":10972.81,"text":"那你講哪一個縣市啊"},{"start":10972.81,"end":10974.81,"text":"棚屋有發啊"},{"start":10974.81,"end":10975.81,"text":"彰化啊"},{"start":10975.81,"end":10977.81,"text":"新竹啊苗栗以上"},{"start":10977.81,"end":10978.81,"text":"全部都要嗎"},{"start":10978.81,"end":10979.81,"text":"對都上來"},{"start":10979.81,"end":10981.81,"text":"彰化縣地方稅務局"},{"start":10981.81,"end":10983.81,"text":"高層右科長"},{"start":10983.81,"end":10985.81,"text":"黃柏右科長"},{"start":10988.02,"end":10990.02,"text":"然後還有哪裡棚屋"},{"start":10990.02,"end":10991.02,"text":"劉瑞明科長"},{"start":10991.02,"end":10992.02,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":10992.95,"end":10993.95,"text":"新竹"},{"start":10995.17,"end":10996.17,"text":"苗栗右科長"},{"start":10997.35,"end":10998.35,"text":"請上來啊"},{"start":10999.36,"end":11001.36,"text":"你有來練習我點到明請你上台啊"},{"start":11003.9,"end":11006.9,"text":"你看我請他們上來就花了快五分鐘了"},{"start":11006.9,"end":11008.9,"text":"沒有你本來就沒有那麼多時間"},{"start":11008.9,"end":11009.9,"text":"剩下一分鐘多而已"},{"start":11009.9,"end":11010.9,"text":"趕快"},{"start":11011.22,"end":11012.22,"text":"趕快上來"},{"start":11016.87,"end":11018.87,"text":"請問一下你們花這個錢"},{"start":11019.17,"end":11020.17,"text":"地方"},{"start":11020.17,"end":11021.17,"text":"支持度很高啊"},{"start":11021.17,"end":11022.17,"text":"有沒有什麼需要"},{"start":11022.17,"end":11023.17,"text":"不好意思因為我們"},{"start":11023.17,"end":11025.17,"text":"發彰化發我們不是縣裡面有發"},{"start":11025.17,"end":11027.17,"text":"我們是公所他們本身在發的"},{"start":11027.17,"end":11029.17,"text":"公所花多少錢"},{"start":11029.17,"end":11031.17,"text":"我們我們知道花壇是他有發"},{"start":11031.17,"end":11032.17,"text":"發六千這樣"},{"start":11032.17,"end":11033.17,"text":"多少"},{"start":11034.24,"end":11037.24,"text":"一定是有需要才花嘛"},{"start":11039.63,"end":11041.63,"text":"最主要中央不一萬塊不花"},{"start":11041.63,"end":11043.63,"text":"變成就你們地方自己來花啦"},{"start":11045.36,"end":11047.36,"text":"另外還有誰有花"},{"start":11052.41,"end":11054.41,"text":"部長啊你們以後"},{"start":11054.41,"end":11056.41,"text":"剛剛彰化縣是說"},{"start":11056.41,"end":11058.41,"text":"縣政府沒有發的是"},{"start":11058.41,"end":11060.41,"text":"花壇相公所"},{"start":11060.41,"end":11061.41,"text":"新竹市應該"},{"start":11061.41,"end":11063.41,"text":"對啊變成就是地方都有在花嘛"},{"start":11065.68,"end":11067.68,"text":"好啦時間關係啦你們把那個表"},{"start":11067.68,"end":11069.68,"text":"給我好了啦"},{"start":11069.68,"end":11071.68,"text":"那我最後講一句話就是說"},{"start":11071.68,"end":11073.68,"text":"因為中央都不花"},{"start":11073.68,"end":11075.68,"text":"所以地方就沒有辦法要去花"},{"start":11075.68,"end":11077.68,"text":"那我覺得該花就花"},{"start":11077.68,"end":11079.68,"text":"因為有很多人"},{"start":11079.68,"end":11081.68,"text":"是嗷嗷待哺啦"},{"start":11081.68,"end":11083.68,"text":"有的孤獨老人啦其實我今天"},{"start":11083.68,"end":11085.68,"text":"談論還有疑政稅的問題"},{"start":11085.68,"end":11087.68,"text":"那孤獨老死掉了很多"},{"start":11087.68,"end":11089.68,"text":"這些以後理財怎麼辦"},{"start":11089.68,"end":11091.68,"text":"孤老孤老就是他剩下他"},{"start":11091.68,"end":11093.68,"text":"自己一個人"},{"start":11093.68,"end":11095.68,"text":"那今天講到疑政稅的部分"},{"start":11096.78,"end":11098.78,"text":"很多東西都還沒問到"},{"start":11098.78,"end":11100.78,"text":"謝謝啦因為你書面給我好了啦"},{"start":11100.78,"end":11102.78,"text":"對書面那以後你還有很多資訊的機會嘛"},{"start":11102.78,"end":11104.78,"text":"對我還在還遇得到"},{"start":11104.78,"end":11106.78,"text":"謝謝你"},{"start":11106.78,"end":11108.78,"text":"好下一位諮詢委員"},{"start":11108.78,"end":11110.78,"text":"請鄭政權委員"},{"start":11110.78,"end":11112.78,"text":"鄭政權委員不在請莊家斌委員"},{"start":11115.27,"end":11117.27,"text":"四分鐘"},{"start":11124.27,"end":11126.27,"text":"主席在場委員先見"},{"start":11126.27,"end":11128.27,"text":"列席的政府央視長官員會長公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生"},{"start":11128.27,"end":11130.27,"text":"有請莊部長跟"},{"start":11130.27,"end":11132.27,"text":"附稅署的樓署長"},{"start":11132.27,"end":11134.27,"text":"請財政部莊部長附稅署樓署長"},{"start":11139.76,"end":11141.76,"text":"部長好"},{"start":11141.76,"end":11143.76,"text":"因為時間有限我很快的來請教一下"},{"start":11143.76,"end":11145.76,"text":"總預算延宕會不會影響到長照新制的推動"},{"start":11145.76,"end":11147.76,"text":"另外我們加薪抵稅"},{"start":11147.76,"end":11149.76,"text":"應該有成效分析來一力調整"},{"start":11149.76,"end":11151.76,"text":"我們先看一下"},{"start":11151.76,"end":11153.76,"text":"我們長照三年齡啟動預算擴增"},{"start":11153.76,"end":11155.76,"text":"稅收挹注長照基金"},{"start":11155.76,"end":11157.76,"text":"增加了一成"},{"start":11157.76,"end":11159.76,"text":"我們的卓院長說長照三年預算突破千億"},{"start":11159.76,"end":11161.76,"text":"但是我們仔細看一下"},{"start":11161.76,"end":11163.76,"text":"總預算到目前今年度的還沒有通過"},{"start":11163.76,"end":11165.76,"text":"會不會不利於長照三年齡"},{"start":11165.76,"end":11167.76,"text":"新增相關計畫的推動"},{"start":11167.76,"end":11169.76,"text":"總預算補充部長請你這邊要幫忙到收"},{"start":11169.76,"end":11171.76,"text":"才能夠進入到長照"},{"start":11171.76,"end":11173.76,"text":"你覺得有沒有受影響"},{"start":11174.57,"end":11176.57,"text":"財政部責收的財源是"},{"start":11176.57,"end":11178.57,"text":"要分配到長照基金當然分配進去"},{"start":11178.57,"end":11180.57,"text":"長照推動衛福部"},{"start":11180.57,"end":11182.57,"text":"那當然預算我們希望能夠"},{"start":11182.57,"end":11184.57,"text":"盡快審議通過現在都已經接近"},{"start":11184.57,"end":11186.57,"text":"七月底了才能夠讓相關的"},{"start":11186.57,"end":11188.57,"text":"市政計畫能夠順利推動"},{"start":11188.57,"end":11190.57,"text":"所以因為預算沒有審查通過"},{"start":11190.57,"end":11192.57,"text":"所以這些事情都還沒有發生"},{"start":11193.56,"end":11195.56,"text":"發生的事情還是繼續在發生"},{"start":11195.56,"end":11197.56,"text":"所以那"},{"start":11197.56,"end":11199.56,"text":"到底說總預算沒有過會不利嗎"},{"start":11199.56,"end":11201.56,"text":"我問的說會不會不利"},{"start":11201.56,"end":11203.56,"text":"當然總預算不過對於政府的施政"},{"start":11203.56,"end":11205.56,"text":"絕對會是有影響的"},{"start":11205.56,"end":11207.56,"text":"所以這是總體的影響跟稅收有沒有收到沒有關聯嗎"},{"start":11207.56,"end":11209.56,"text":"在稅收的部分我們"},{"start":11209.56,"end":11211.56,"text":"稅收還是依法的收取的"},{"start":11211.56,"end":11213.56,"text":"是依法課徵的"},{"start":11213.56,"end":11215.56,"text":"所以總預算沒有通過依法課徵的還是照收"},{"start":11215.56,"end":11217.56,"text":"只是要用的時候不一定能夠用"},{"start":11217.56,"end":11219.56,"text":"是的"},{"start":11219.56,"end":11221.56,"text":"我們另外一個課題就是加薪減稅"},{"start":11221.56,"end":11223.56,"text":"加薪是老闆幫員工加薪"},{"start":11223.56,"end":11225.56,"text":"所以政府幫老闆減稅"},{"start":11225.56,"end":11227.56,"text":"那在去年底的時候"},{"start":11227.56,"end":11229.56,"text":"我提說加薪減稅的政策好像推動了兩年多成效不彰"},{"start":11229.56,"end":11231.56,"text":"那時候我另外提出"},{"start":11231.56,"end":11233.56,"text":"是不是能夠說如果員工的勞退提撥率提高"},{"start":11233.56,"end":11235.56,"text":"那我們就提高他的減儲率"},{"start":11235.56,"end":11237.56,"text":"或者說如果你老闆幫勞工的退休提撥提高了"},{"start":11237.56,"end":11239.56,"text":"他可以用來抵稅"},{"start":11239.56,"end":11241.56,"text":"還能讓渡"},{"start":11241.56,"end":11243.56,"text":"那些研究的可行方法我們在想很多"},{"start":11243.56,"end":11245.56,"text":"但是到底是怎麼做"},{"start":11245.56,"end":11247.56,"text":"我們要怎麼做"},{"start":11247.56,"end":11249.56,"text":"我們要怎麼做"},{"start":11249.56,"end":11251.56,"text":"我們在想很多"},{"start":11251.56,"end":11253.56,"text":"但是到底現在問一個問題往下一頁看"},{"start":11253.56,"end":11255.56,"text":"到底目前中小企業加薪抵稅的修法"},{"start":11255.56,"end":11257.56,"text":"從2024年開始試用之後"},{"start":11257.56,"end":11259.56,"text":"我們也刪除了這些"},{"start":11259.56,"end":11261.56,"text":"比較限制的條款"},{"start":11261.56,"end":11263.56,"text":"減儲率把它提高175%"},{"start":11263.56,"end":11265.56,"text":"然後減儲率200%"},{"start":11265.56,"end":11267.56,"text":"甚至中小企業"},{"start":11267.56,"end":11269.56,"text":"不是大企業"},{"start":11269.56,"end":11271.56,"text":"甚至他幫員工加薪3%"},{"start":11271.56,"end":11273.56,"text":"我們就給他其他信保的融資額度"},{"start":11273.56,"end":11275.56,"text":"好那足跡總署說"},{"start":11275.56,"end":11277.56,"text":"去年有三城市的企業"},{"start":11277.56,"end":11279.56,"text":"已經幫員工調薪了"},{"start":11279.56,"end":11281.56,"text":"被受惠的員工有超過四城"},{"start":11281.56,"end":11283.56,"text":"那今年也有超過三城的"},{"start":11283.56,"end":11285.56,"text":"廠商幫員工調薪"},{"start":11285.56,"end":11287.56,"text":"請問部長你認為"},{"start":11287.56,"end":11289.56,"text":"這表示我們加薪抵稅"},{"start":11289.56,"end":11291.56,"text":"已經產生效果了嗎"},{"start":11292.41,"end":11294.41,"text":"因為薪水增加"},{"start":11294.41,"end":11296.41,"text":"他的成本費用都會提升"},{"start":11296.41,"end":11298.41,"text":"所以這個可以讓他的稅賦"},{"start":11298.41,"end":11300.41,"text":"可以有多一些減向"},{"start":11300.41,"end":11302.41,"text":"支出可以做一些加成"},{"start":11302.41,"end":11304.41,"text":"那另外就是說"},{"start":11304.41,"end":11306.41,"text":"還有我們的經濟成長的果實"},{"start":11306.41,"end":11308.41,"text":"因為企業願意分享給員工"},{"start":11308.41,"end":11310.41,"text":"而給他們做相關的加薪"},{"start":11310.41,"end":11312.41,"text":"部長我要問的是說"},{"start":11312.41,"end":11314.41,"text":"你們有沒有因為看到足跡總署"},{"start":11314.41,"end":11316.41,"text":"這些統計資料"},{"start":11316.41,"end":11318.41,"text":"你們認真去看一看說"},{"start":11318.41,"end":11320.41,"text":"是不是真的我們那個加薪抵稅的"},{"start":11320.41,"end":11322.41,"text":"有企業主幫員工加薪"},{"start":11322.41,"end":11324.41,"text":"然後用此來跟"},{"start":11324.41,"end":11326.41,"text":"財政部說我要抵稅"},{"start":11326.41,"end":11328.41,"text":"有沒有 有申請租稅"},{"start":11328.41,"end":11330.41,"text":"又會有854家"},{"start":11330.41,"end":11332.41,"text":"那適用加薪的人數有3萬4千多人"},{"start":11332.41,"end":11334.41,"text":"總額度加薪達到6億多"},{"start":11334.41,"end":11336.41,"text":"稅損跟員工的加薪"},{"start":11336.41,"end":11338.41,"text":"有沒有去做個比較 譬如說"},{"start":11338.41,"end":11340.41,"text":"我們因此少受的稅可能少受個20億"},{"start":11340.41,"end":11342.41,"text":"但是受惠的員工"},{"start":11342.41,"end":11344.41,"text":"多了200億的薪資所得"},{"start":11344.41,"end":11346.41,"text":"有沒有這樣一個去評估過"},{"start":11346.41,"end":11348.41,"text":"這個部分因為稅收"},{"start":11348.41,"end":11350.41,"text":"這個數多因素去做減"},{"start":11350.41,"end":11352.41,"text":"不是只有這一項而已"},{"start":11352.41,"end":11354.41,"text":"我是說稅損他拿來抵稅"},{"start":11354.41,"end":11356.41,"text":"抵掉了多少稅你知道嗎"},{"start":11356.41,"end":11358.41,"text":"他這個不是用抵稅的"},{"start":11358.41,"end":11360.41,"text":"他是在成本費用裡面去做"},{"start":11360.41,"end":11362.41,"text":"成本費用 成本費用去做加成的"},{"start":11362.41,"end":11364.41,"text":"減除"},{"start":11364.41,"end":11366.41,"text":"那加成的減除"},{"start":11366.41,"end":11368.41,"text":"那就比較複雜來稅我們往下看"},{"start":11368.41,"end":11370.41,"text":"所以呢我們去問了"},{"start":11370.41,"end":11372.41,"text":"官方統計呢"},{"start":11372.41,"end":11374.41,"text":"34.8%的工資有調薪"},{"start":11374.41,"end":11376.41,"text":"25年薪高但是有人說"},{"start":11376.41,"end":11378.41,"text":"這是因為最低工資調薪"},{"start":11378.41,"end":11380.41,"text":"這不是我們加薪抵稅造成的"},{"start":11380.41,"end":11382.41,"text":"部長有沒有辦法去證明"},{"start":11382.41,"end":11384.41,"text":"我們加薪抵稅是有效的"},{"start":11386.12,"end":11388.12,"text":"我們這邊的統計數字是要扣除掉"},{"start":11388.12,"end":11390.12,"text":"因為基本工資調薪"},{"start":11390.12,"end":11392.12,"text":"但是政策沒有效你們怎麼去衡量"},{"start":11392.12,"end":11394.12,"text":"我們認為這個加速已經"},{"start":11394.12,"end":11396.12,"text":"到了500多家那這個部分"},{"start":11396.12,"end":11398.12,"text":"經濟顧問可以繼續的評估"},{"start":11398.12,"end":11400.12,"text":"但是我是說你說是綜合嘛"},{"start":11400.12,"end":11402.12,"text":"所以我們看不出是不是加薪抵稅嘛"},{"start":11402.12,"end":11404.12,"text":"有可能是基本工資調高嘛我們還有最後的結論主席站起來了"},{"start":11404.12,"end":11406.12,"text":"是不是請你們去"},{"start":11406.12,"end":11408.12,"text":"加薪抵稅的政策"},{"start":11408.12,"end":11410.12,"text":"有沒有加到基層勞工"},{"start":11410.12,"end":11412.12,"text":"去盤點一下是不是基層的"},{"start":11412.12,"end":11414.12,"text":"低薪勞工有被加到薪"},{"start":11414.12,"end":11416.12,"text":"所以說這個加薪的稅損跟他的"},{"start":11416.12,"end":11418.12,"text":"重所稅和營業稅的增長"},{"start":11418.12,"end":11420.12,"text":"有沒有成效我不用現在回答"},{"start":11420.12,"end":11422.12,"text":"你們回去就這兩個我們的疑問"},{"start":11422.12,"end":11424.12,"text":"幫我們做一個分析好不好"},{"start":11424.12,"end":11426.12,"text":"可以讓我們標準這個政策是不是真的有效"},{"start":11426.12,"end":11428.12,"text":"好不好"},{"start":11428.12,"end":11430.12,"text":"部長可以嗎"},{"start":11430.12,"end":11432.12,"text":"謝謝部長謝謝主席"},{"start":11432.12,"end":11434.12,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11434.12,"end":11436.12,"text":"謝謝宗教病委員下一位諮詢委員"},{"start":11436.12,"end":11438.12,"text":"林茜琪委員"},{"start":11438.12,"end":11440.12,"text":"林茜琪委員不在"},{"start":11440.12,"end":11442.12,"text":"林楚英委員"},{"start":11442.12,"end":11444.12,"text":"林楚英委員不在"},{"start":11444.12,"end":11446.12,"text":"蘇青泉委員"},{"start":11446.12,"end":11448.12,"text":"蘇青泉委員不在"},{"start":11448.12,"end":11450.12,"text":"張志仁委員"},{"start":11450.12,"end":11452.12,"text":"張志仁委員不在"},{"start":11452.12,"end":11454.12,"text":"下一位請許中信委員諮詢"},{"start":11454.12,"end":11456.12,"text":"四分鐘"},{"start":11467.13,"end":11469.13,"text":"我們有請財政部莊部長"},{"start":11469.13,"end":11471.13,"text":"請財政部莊部長"},{"start":11475.13,"end":11477.13,"text":"部長好"},{"start":11477.17,"end":11479.17,"text":"我們"},{"start":11478.46,"end":11480.46,"text":"有四個小問題要請教您"},{"start":11481.63,"end":11483.63,"text":"我們繼承人"},{"start":11483.77,"end":11485.77,"text":"申報遺產稅的期限"},{"start":11485.77,"end":11487.77,"text":"依法定有多久"},{"start":11489.05,"end":11491.05,"text":"六個月內"},{"start":11490.3,"end":11492.3,"text":"有沒有可能加三個月"},{"start":11493.12,"end":11495.12,"text":"可以延長三個月"},{"start":11496.63,"end":11498.63,"text":"那我們遺產稅申報以後"},{"start":11500.29,"end":11502.29,"text":"國稅局多久會核定"},{"start":11502.29,"end":11504.29,"text":"盡快做核定"},{"start":11504.29,"end":11506.29,"text":"而且我們現在也有一些幫忙"},{"start":11506.29,"end":11508.29,"text":"查相關的財產"},{"start":11508.29,"end":11510.29,"text":"的一個系統來做幫忙"},{"start":11512.36,"end":11514.36,"text":"我們最近"},{"start":11514.47,"end":11516.47,"text":"三年"},{"start":11517.29,"end":11519.29,"text":"遺產稅申報超過六個月以後"},{"start":11521,"end":11523,"text":"甚至超過一年以後核定的案件有多少"},{"start":11524.46,"end":11526.46,"text":"跟委員報因為手邊沒有這樣的"},{"start":11526.46,"end":11528.46,"text":"細項的統計資料"},{"start":11528.46,"end":11530.46,"text":"我們是不是會後把相關的統計資料"},{"start":11530.46,"end":11532.46,"text":"您所提的問題我們來"},{"start":11532.46,"end":11534.46,"text":"提供給委員"},{"start":11534.46,"end":11536.46,"text":"因為手上沒有這個這個些項目"},{"start":11536.46,"end":11538.46,"text":"手邊的資料"},{"start":11538.13,"end":11540.13,"text":"部長手上沒有但是你腦中有"},{"start":11542.18,"end":11544.18,"text":"腦中有很多很多的東西"},{"start":11544.18,"end":11546.18,"text":"但是這個真的是因為你們不敢在這裡"},{"start":11546.18,"end":11548.18,"text":"跟委員會報告是"},{"start":11548.18,"end":11550.18,"text":"是因為預期的太多"},{"start":11550.18,"end":11552.18,"text":"民怨世奇"},{"start":11552.18,"end":11554.18,"text":"好"},{"start":11554.18,"end":11556.18,"text":"所以本席是"},{"start":11557.06,"end":11559.06,"text":"被交代了"},{"start":11559.51,"end":11561.51,"text":"要替報稅人"},{"start":11561.51,"end":11563.51,"text":"納稅人"},{"start":11563.61,"end":11565.61,"text":"來訴說他們的痛苦"},{"start":11566.8,"end":11568.8,"text":"所以我們現在"},{"start":11568.8,"end":11570.8,"text":"最近三年申報遺產稅超過"},{"start":11570.8,"end":11572.8,"text":"六個月甚至超過一年沒有"},{"start":11572.8,"end":11574.8,"text":"核定的案件"},{"start":11579.89,"end":11581.89,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":11581.89,"end":11583.89,"text":"申報遺產稅的案件裡面大概有"},{"start":11583.89,"end":11585.89,"text":"百分之九十四的大概都還沒有到"},{"start":11585.89,"end":11587.89,"text":"課徵遺產稅的門檻"},{"start":11587.89,"end":11589.89,"text":"大概是百分之六需要課徵"},{"start":11589.89,"end":11591.89,"text":"那至於這個期限超過六個"},{"start":11591.89,"end":11593.89,"text":"月以及超過一年的"},{"start":11593.89,"end":11595.89,"text":"核定的案件"},{"start":11595.89,"end":11597.89,"text":"我們是不是會後再提會後提供"},{"start":11597.89,"end":11599.89,"text":"有沒有後面的幕僚"},{"start":11599.89,"end":11601.89,"text":"可以提供數字啊"},{"start":11601.89,"end":11603.89,"text":"跟委員報告我們這裡因為那個是在各國"},{"start":11603.89,"end":11605.89,"text":"稅局我們可以做統計"},{"start":11605.89,"end":11607.89,"text":"但是跟委員報告我們其實"},{"start":11607.89,"end":11609.89,"text":"其實很多遺產稅的申報案件"},{"start":11609.89,"end":11611.89,"text":"都是櫃台化案件"},{"start":11611.89,"end":11613.89,"text":"也就是納稅人"},{"start":11613.89,"end":11615.89,"text":"或者代理人到國稅局"},{"start":11615.89,"end":11617.89,"text":"來申報他立馬就可以"},{"start":11617.89,"end":11619.89,"text":"拿到免稅證明"},{"start":11619.89,"end":11621.89,"text":"就可以去辦理後續的"},{"start":11621.89,"end":11623.89,"text":"繼承登記"},{"start":11623.89,"end":11625.89,"text":"所以其實有很多還是櫃台化案件"},{"start":11625.89,"end":11627.89,"text":"然後另外有的是"},{"start":11627.89,"end":11629.89,"text":"核客的案件呢"},{"start":11629.89,"end":11631.89,"text":"其實就像部長剛剛有跟委員報告"},{"start":11631.89,"end":11633.89,"text":"九成四以上"},{"start":11633.89,"end":11635.89,"text":"九成四是免稅的"},{"start":11635.89,"end":11637.89,"text":"所以六%是要繳稅"},{"start":11637.89,"end":11639.89,"text":"那跟委員報告就是因為"},{"start":11639.89,"end":11641.89,"text":"六%要課稅的往往他的"},{"start":11641.89,"end":11643.89,"text":"遺產是非常的複雜"},{"start":11643.89,"end":11645.89,"text":"所以那需要一點時間"},{"start":11645.89,"end":11647.89,"text":"包括要跟繼承人"},{"start":11647.89,"end":11649.89,"text":"他要提一些資料"},{"start":11649.89,"end":11651.89,"text":"然後我們國稅局要進行查證"},{"start":11651.89,"end":11653.89,"text":"所以往往在核客的時候是需要一點時間"},{"start":11653.89,"end":11655.89,"text":"十長六個月內"},{"start":11656.25,"end":11658.25,"text":"都沒辦法核定"},{"start":11658.85,"end":11660.85,"text":"很多案件都沒有辦法在六個月內核定"},{"start":11662.14,"end":11664.14,"text":"所以甚至超過一年了很多"},{"start":11665.16,"end":11667.16,"text":"這造成"},{"start":11666.8,"end":11668.8,"text":"人民財產沒辦法分割"},{"start":11669.89,"end":11671.89,"text":"沒辦法移轉"},{"start":11673.43,"end":11675.43,"text":"是跟委員報告其實這個部分"},{"start":11675.43,"end":11677.43,"text":"我們國稅局也要請國稅局"},{"start":11677.43,"end":11679.43,"text":"去做所有的遺產稅"},{"start":11679.43,"end":11681.43,"text":"申報案件我們其實都會列管"},{"start":11681.43,"end":11683.43,"text":"不但列管我們也會"},{"start":11683.43,"end":11685.43,"text":"如果說納稅人有什麼問題"},{"start":11685.43,"end":11687.43,"text":"我們也會協助"},{"start":11687.99,"end":11689.99,"text":"有沒有辦法改善"},{"start":11690.56,"end":11692.56,"text":"元宴何在"},{"start":11691.99,"end":11693.99,"text":"因為他太有錢太多遺產"},{"start":11694.37,"end":11696.37,"text":"某些案件是這樣"},{"start":11696.37,"end":11698.37,"text":"某些案件"},{"start":11698.37,"end":11700.37,"text":"台灣貧富差距變成"},{"start":11700.37,"end":11702.37,"text":"財富累積在少數人"},{"start":11703.77,"end":11705.77,"text":"變成遺產稅的申報核定的期間沒辦法"},{"start":11705.77,"end":11707.77,"text":"依法的期間內"},{"start":11707.77,"end":11709.77,"text":"來完成核定"},{"start":11710.45,"end":11712.45,"text":"這是貧富差距造成"},{"start":11712.72,"end":11714.72,"text":"那所以呢"},{"start":11714.3,"end":11716.3,"text":"這個原因使得我們現在必須要"},{"start":11716.3,"end":11718.3,"text":"想辦法來克服"},{"start":11718.99,"end":11720.99,"text":"有沒有其他方法"},{"start":11720.99,"end":11722.99,"text":"如果有的話用書面來提供給我"},{"start":11722.99,"end":11724.99,"text":"因為我跟召委都是法律人"},{"start":11724.99,"end":11726.99,"text":"我們非常守時"},{"start":11726.99,"end":11728.99,"text":"好謝謝委員"},{"start":11730.37,"end":11732.37,"text":"謝謝舉重性委員質詢"},{"start":11732.37,"end":11734.37,"text":"下一位資訊委員請陳玉蓁委員質詢"},{"start":11745.42,"end":11747.42,"text":"謝謝主席請那個部長"},{"start":11747.42,"end":11749.42,"text":"請財政部莊部長"},{"start":11752.79,"end":11756.79,"text":"我們今天討論這個土地稅法和房屋稅"},{"start":11756.79,"end":11758.79,"text":"這個應應少子民化的問題"},{"start":11758.79,"end":11760.79,"text":"減輕家庭負擔的這個"},{"start":11760.79,"end":11762.79,"text":"這個本席是支持的"},{"start":11762.79,"end":11764.79,"text":"但是我想再跟您再次討論一下"},{"start":11764.79,"end":11766.79,"text":"這個"},{"start":11766.65,"end":11768.65,"text":"房屋稅的這個部分"},{"start":11768.65,"end":11770.65,"text":"尤其有關這個離島地區"},{"start":11770.65,"end":11772.65,"text":"特別是我們金門地區"},{"start":11772.65,"end":11774.65,"text":"這個住稅不正義的情形"},{"start":11774.65,"end":11776.65,"text":"那之前提過嘛"},{"start":11776.65,"end":11778.65,"text":"您知道我要問什麼嗎"},{"start":11779.03,"end":11781.03,"text":"委員曾經也都很關切這個問題"},{"start":11781.03,"end":11783.03,"text":"這個就是房屋稅"},{"start":11783.03,"end":11785.03,"text":"就是現在房屋稅它有規定"},{"start":11785.03,"end":11787.03,"text":"一定要設戶籍嘛"},{"start":11787.03,"end":11789.03,"text":"是的房屋稅"},{"start":11789.03,"end":11791.03,"text":"土地稅也是地價稅也是要"},{"start":11791.03,"end":11793.03,"text":"那戶籍的"},{"start":11793.03,"end":11795.03,"text":"設戶籍的目的是因為"},{"start":11795.03,"end":11797.03,"text":"為了避免說你事實上"},{"start":11797.03,"end":11799.03,"text":"不是自用嘛"},{"start":11799.03,"end":11801.03,"text":"那我舉幾個例子喔"},{"start":11801.03,"end":11803.03,"text":"金門鄉親住在台灣"},{"start":11803.03,"end":11805.03,"text":"但是也會回金門因為金門是郊嘛"},{"start":11805.03,"end":11807.03,"text":"台灣是可能旅居的地方"},{"start":11807.03,"end":11809.03,"text":"那他的戶籍"},{"start":11809.03,"end":11811.03,"text":"在金門他台灣住的地方"},{"start":11811.03,"end":11813.03,"text":"也就不能"},{"start":11813.83,"end":11815.83,"text":"享有這個自...他的確是自用住宅"},{"start":11815.83,"end":11817.83,"text":"卻沒有辦法享有自用住宅這個稅率"},{"start":11817.83,"end":11819.83,"text":"這個是第一個"},{"start":11819.83,"end":11821.83,"text":"另外一種還有比如說單身的"},{"start":11821.83,"end":11823.83,"text":"一位這個"},{"start":11823.83,"end":11825.83,"text":"原來的比如說嘉義人好了"},{"start":11825.83,"end":11827.83,"text":"那嘉義人到金門去工作"},{"start":11827.83,"end":11829.83,"text":"那他也只有一戶房子"},{"start":11831.84,"end":11833.84,"text":"你在問什麼吧"},{"start":11833.41,"end":11835.41,"text":"比如說嘉義人"},{"start":11835.41,"end":11837.41,"text":"如果到金門去工作"},{"start":11837.41,"end":11839.41,"text":"那你也只有一戶房子"},{"start":11839.41,"end":11841.41,"text":"但是你為了因為坐飛機要往返"},{"start":11841.41,"end":11843.41,"text":"你必須戶口是在金門"},{"start":11843.41,"end":11845.41,"text":"但你的房子在嘉義好了"},{"start":11845.41,"end":11847.41,"text":"那你是嘉義人"},{"start":11847.41,"end":11849.41,"text":"你到金門去工作公務人員好了"},{"start":11849.41,"end":11851.41,"text":"那你戶籍是在金門因為你常常來來往往"},{"start":11851.41,"end":11853.41,"text":"金門很多事情那個"},{"start":11853.41,"end":11855.41,"text":"但是你事實上是住在"},{"start":11855.41,"end":11857.41,"text":"你在金門工作你的戶口是在嘉義"},{"start":11857.41,"end":11859.41,"text":"那你嘉義也只有一戶房子"},{"start":11859.41,"end":11861.41,"text":"你是單身你也沒有辦法享有自用住宅這個稅率"},{"start":11861.41,"end":11863.41,"text":"這個就變成是你們把那個形式的這個東西"},{"start":11863.41,"end":11865.41,"text":"沒有追究這個實質的東西"},{"start":11865.41,"end":11867.41,"text":"我們這種自用住宅這個"},{"start":11867.41,"end":11869.41,"text":"如果在我提過很多次"},{"start":11869.41,"end":11871.41,"text":"單身只有一戶的"},{"start":11871.41,"end":11873.41,"text":"這些異地派遣的人"},{"start":11873.41,"end":11875.41,"text":"需要跨縣市照顧父母的青年"},{"start":11875.41,"end":11877.41,"text":"這些都不是為了他們都不會炒房"},{"start":11877.41,"end":11879.41,"text":"一戶單身"},{"start":11880.47,"end":11882.47,"text":"對"},{"start":11881.57,"end":11883.57,"text":"我聽過很多次了你們這個進步到怎麼樣"},{"start":11883.57,"end":11885.57,"text":"因為你房屋社這個目的是"},{"start":11885.57,"end":11887.57,"text":"要避免那些屯房的人"},{"start":11887.57,"end":11889.57,"text":"很多房地產炒作的人"},{"start":11889.57,"end":11891.57,"text":"那你當然他沒有實際"},{"start":11891.57,"end":11893.57,"text":"居住有炒房意圖你就讓他"},{"start":11893.57,"end":11895.57,"text":"比較高的房屋稅率"},{"start":11895.57,"end":11897.57,"text":"地方的這個部分就是說"},{"start":11897.57,"end":11899.57,"text":"這個事實上有這樣的情形尤其離島"},{"start":11899.57,"end":11901.57,"text":"這種情形很多不管是"},{"start":11901.57,"end":11903.57,"text":"金門籍的人在台灣"},{"start":11903.57,"end":11905.57,"text":"或是台灣籍我說比如"},{"start":11905.57,"end":11907.57,"text":"嘉義戶口人在金門這個都會遇到"},{"start":11907.57,"end":11909.57,"text":"有很多公務人員也是在"},{"start":11909.57,"end":11911.57,"text":"金門工作也是遇到"},{"start":11911.28,"end":11913.28,"text":"怎麼辦"},{"start":11913.28,"end":11915.28,"text":"我不是提過很多次了嗎"},{"start":11915.67,"end":11917.67,"text":"我想自住"},{"start":11917.67,"end":11919.67,"text":"不管是地價稅原來就是"},{"start":11919.67,"end":11921.67,"text":"這樣規定了所以我們讓房屋社"},{"start":11921.67,"end":11923.67,"text":"跟地價稅是一樣的"},{"start":11923.67,"end":11925.67,"text":"所以我提出修法"},{"start":11925.67,"end":11927.67,"text":"另外就是說除了"},{"start":11927.67,"end":11929.67,"text":"您剛剛提到這種情況"},{"start":11929.67,"end":11931.67,"text":"他的戶籍是在"},{"start":11931.67,"end":11933.67,"text":"嘉義所以他嘉義這個"},{"start":11933.67,"end":11935.67,"text":"房子他戶籍在金門"},{"start":11935.67,"end":11937.67,"text":"因為他在金門工作如果你戶籍"},{"start":11937.67,"end":11939.67,"text":"在嘉義你機票上每個月"},{"start":11939.67,"end":11941.67,"text":"往返就相對他是"},{"start":11941.67,"end":11943.67,"text":"考慮到福利措施"},{"start":11943.67,"end":11945.67,"text":"就是基本行的權益"},{"start":11945.67,"end":11947.67,"text":"各方面福利措施的部分"},{"start":11947.67,"end":11949.67,"text":"那我想這個部分還是"},{"start":11949.67,"end":11951.67,"text":"回歸到自住的話我們"},{"start":11951.67,"end":11953.67,"text":"房屋跟土地讓他是"},{"start":11953.67,"end":11955.67,"text":"一致性的設計只是"},{"start":11955.67,"end":11957.67,"text":"為了讓你查核方便"},{"start":11957.67,"end":11959.67,"text":"你們省下查核的力氣"},{"start":11959.67,"end":11961.67,"text":"但是這個情況下全民需要"},{"start":11961.67,"end":11963.67,"text":"這些人需要負擔比較大的成本"},{"start":11963.67,"end":11965.67,"text":"所以沒有其他的方法"},{"start":11965.67,"end":11967.67,"text":"就實際查核比如說我們在"},{"start":11967.67,"end":11969.67,"text":"金門房屋稅地方稅"},{"start":11969.67,"end":11971.67,"text":"我們金門我們可以查核我們可以"},{"start":11971.67,"end":11973.67,"text":"請他切結是不是確實"},{"start":11973.67,"end":11975.67,"text":"有這樣的事實這個"},{"start":11975.67,"end":11977.67,"text":"有時候是要"},{"start":11977.99,"end":11979.99,"text":"你的目的是為了避免炒房"},{"start":11979.99,"end":11981.99,"text":"他實際上是有自住"},{"start":11981.99,"end":11983.99,"text":"應該有在說什麼"},{"start":11983.99,"end":11985.99,"text":"所以地方政府願意來承擔"},{"start":11985.99,"end":11987.99,"text":"這些東西這是房屋稅是地方稅"},{"start":11987.99,"end":11989.99,"text":"收像剛你們在解免"},{"start":11989.99,"end":11991.99,"text":"這些東西中央買單"},{"start":11991.99,"end":11993.99,"text":"中央請客地方買單這個少"},{"start":11993.99,"end":11995.99,"text":"實際化因為房屋稅也是地方"},{"start":11995.99,"end":11997.99,"text":"就沒收了這個我們也是支持"},{"start":11997.99,"end":11999.99,"text":"但是對於實際有需求"},{"start":11999.99,"end":12001.99,"text":"這樣的人我們是不是有其他的"},{"start":12001.99,"end":12003.99,"text":"方法也可以由政府進行一定"},{"start":12003.99,"end":12005.99,"text":"的查核比如說地方政府他願意配合"},{"start":12005.99,"end":12007.99,"text":"也是可以啊你變成形式主義"},{"start":12007.99,"end":12009.99,"text":"就是一定要戶口設在那裡"},{"start":12009.99,"end":12011.99,"text":"那你對你就沒有理解到"},{"start":12011.99,"end":12013.99,"text":"這種住在外島的人"},{"start":12013.99,"end":12015.99,"text":"他就是戶口戶口這個東西對他"},{"start":12015.99,"end":12017.99,"text":"就是有不一樣的意義"},{"start":12019.1,"end":12021.1,"text":"我提過很多而且我已經提出修法了"},{"start":12021.1,"end":12023.1,"text":"我這次已經在離島"},{"start":12023.1,"end":12025.1,"text":"今天這條例已經提出修法了那部長"},{"start":12025.1,"end":12027.1,"text":"這個應該沒問題吧"},{"start":12027.69,"end":12029.69,"text":"這在離島建設"},{"start":12029.69,"end":12031.69,"text":"是是是對有關房屋稅這個部分"},{"start":12031.69,"end":12033.69,"text":"有關外島居民這個房屋稅房屋"},{"start":12033.69,"end":12035.69,"text":"的這個因為我不是說他"},{"start":12035.69,"end":12037.69,"text":"我們說的是我們也是確實他"},{"start":12037.69,"end":12039.69,"text":"要自住好嗎也是以後"},{"start":12039.69,"end":12041.69,"text":"就是沒有草房玉土因為我們"},{"start":12041.69,"end":12043.69,"text":"也不希望有草房但是呢"},{"start":12043.69,"end":12045.69,"text":"我們有地方我們付給地方政府"},{"start":12045.69,"end":12047.69,"text":"查核的這個權利用切結"},{"start":12047.69,"end":12049.69,"text":"嘛地方像我們金門地區"},{"start":12049.69,"end":12051.69,"text":"要查核有沒有人住在那裡是"},{"start":12051.69,"end":12053.69,"text":"很容易的事情並不是一個很"},{"start":12053.69,"end":12055.69,"text":"大的負擔如果地方願意承擔這個東西"},{"start":12055.69,"end":12057.69,"text":"是不是給我們這個法源依據嗎"},{"start":12058.53,"end":12060.53,"text":"您了解我的意思嗎就離島建設就針對外保嘛離島嘛"},{"start":12060.53,"end":12062.53,"text":"那你台灣其他縣市政府要不要做"},{"start":12062.53,"end":12064.53,"text":"我不知道但是針對離島這個部分"},{"start":12064.53,"end":12066.53,"text":"是不是給讓離島居民是有這樣的"},{"start":12066.53,"end":12068.53,"text":"因為離島地區"},{"start":12068.53,"end":12070.53,"text":"因為離島地區"},{"start":12071.21,"end":12075.21,"text":"居民都很少誰也沒有住在什麼地方是一定查得到的"},{"start":12075.21,"end":12079.21,"text":"您了解我意思嗎然後公園也會依法去查核嘛"},{"start":12079.21,"end":12081.21,"text":"所以用切結這個方式嘛"},{"start":12081.42,"end":12083.42,"text":"所以我現在先把法源打開啦"},{"start":12084.74,"end":12088.74,"text":"當然我想委員是為這個金門地區的民眾"},{"start":12088.74,"end":12090.74,"text":"找想但是因為他是有跨區"},{"start":12090.74,"end":12092.74,"text":"跨到本島來"},{"start":12092.74,"end":12094.74,"text":"那跟本島的稅收就會有關係"},{"start":12094.74,"end":12096.74,"text":"就會有關係"},{"start":12096.74,"end":12098.74,"text":"我想這個部分我想應該要"},{"start":12098.74,"end":12100.74,"text":"所以在離島建設條例說你們應該不反對嘛"},{"start":12100.74,"end":12102.74,"text":"平衡的考量要平衡的考量"},{"start":12102.74,"end":12104.74,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":12105.68,"end":12107.68,"text":"那你怎麼解決這個議題"},{"start":12107.68,"end":12109.68,"text":"的確是很多人有這個問題啊"},{"start":12109.68,"end":12111.68,"text":"你怎麼來解決這個我問很多次啦"},{"start":12111.68,"end":12113.68,"text":"我們先從金門地區開始解決起嘛"},{"start":12113.68,"end":12115.68,"text":"那其他各縣市的這個"},{"start":12115.68,"end":12117.68,"text":"如果其他更新人沒有這個問題的話"},{"start":12117.68,"end":12119.68,"text":"那當然是另外的事情"},{"start":12119.68,"end":12121.68,"text":"當然其他各縣市也會有"},{"start":12121.68,"end":12123.68,"text":"他們的立法委員會想辦法幫他們"},{"start":12123.68,"end":12125.68,"text":"除了立法委員之外"},{"start":12125.68,"end":12127.68,"text":"那這個又涉及到地方政府"},{"start":12127.68,"end":12129.68,"text":"我想地方政府也可以表達意見"},{"start":12129.68,"end":12131.68,"text":"針對金門地區嘛"},{"start":12131.68,"end":12133.68,"text":"就是離島地區我們提出這樣的訴求"},{"start":12133.68,"end":12135.68,"text":"我們就講離島地區就好"},{"start":12135.68,"end":12137.68,"text":"其他地方政府要不要做他們去考慮嘛"},{"start":12137.68,"end":12139.68,"text":"但是你在法院上要打開嘛"},{"start":12139.68,"end":12141.68,"text":"所以我先打開法院嘛"},{"start":12141.68,"end":12143.68,"text":"然後讓各地地方政府他可以"},{"start":12143.68,"end":12145.68,"text":"自己決定他願不願意"},{"start":12146.39,"end":12148.39,"text":"配合竊竭啊"},{"start":12148.39,"end":12150.39,"text":"去做這樣的查核功夫啊"},{"start":12150.39,"end":12152.39,"text":"那離島這是做得到的"},{"start":12152.02,"end":12154.02,"text":"好嗎 那這個法院這個應該沒有什麼議題"},{"start":12154.02,"end":12156.02,"text":"可能要徵詢各地方政府的意見"},{"start":12156.02,"end":12158.02,"text":"你可以徵詢一下其他各地方政府的意見嘛"},{"start":12158.02,"end":12160.02,"text":"好不好 那我因為這問題已經問很多次了"},{"start":12160.02,"end":12162.02,"text":"那請這個"},{"start":12162.02,"end":12164.02,"text":"特別重視一下"},{"start":12164.02,"end":12166.02,"text":"反應的蠻多的啦"},{"start":12166.02,"end":12168.02,"text":"就是要福利也要自由"},{"start":12168.02,"end":12170.02,"text":"不是福利 是有東西不是福利"},{"start":12170.02,"end":12172.02,"text":"我跟你們報告一下"},{"start":12172.02,"end":12174.02,"text":"有東西不是福利 比如說坐飛機"},{"start":12174.02,"end":12176.02,"text":"有時候不是福利有時候是基本權益"},{"start":12176.02,"end":12178.02,"text":"比如說坐飛機"},{"start":12178.02,"end":12180.02,"text":"到台灣來 這個交通是一個"},{"start":12180.02,"end":12182.02,"text":"基本權益的基本權益"},{"start":12182.02,"end":12184.02,"text":"涉及在那裡有一些基本的權益"},{"start":12184.02,"end":12186.02,"text":"它不一定等於是福利"},{"start":12186.02,"end":12188.02,"text":"那你不能讓人家"},{"start":12188.02,"end":12190.02,"text":"被迫他要做"},{"start":12191.43,"end":12193.43,"text":"選擇嘛"},{"start":12193.43,"end":12195.43,"text":"只為了行政機關他查核上的方便"},{"start":12195.43,"end":12197.43,"text":"行政機關就是要"},{"start":12197.43,"end":12199.43,"text":"辯明嘛"},{"start":12199.43,"end":12201.43,"text":"你真正這個法律的目的是禁止人家"},{"start":12202.38,"end":12204.38,"text":"草房嘛 避免囤房嘛"},{"start":12204.38,"end":12206.38,"text":"草高房價嘛"},{"start":12206.38,"end":12208.38,"text":"那如果事實上他單身又只有一戶"},{"start":12208.38,"end":12210.38,"text":"那是不是就可以"},{"start":12210.38,"end":12212.38,"text":"很明顯知道這個不是草房意圖"},{"start":12212.38,"end":12214.38,"text":"全國這個也是有總歸戶的嘛"},{"start":12214.38,"end":12216.38,"text":"是這個地方也應該要考慮"},{"start":12216.38,"end":12218.38,"text":"老百姓實際的需求嘛"},{"start":12219.22,"end":12221.22,"text":"那個我講過很多次啊"},{"start":12221.22,"end":12223.22,"text":"我這次已經提出修法"},{"start":12223.22,"end":12225.22,"text":"是 我也希望部長這個部分可以"},{"start":12225.22,"end":12227.22,"text":"支持啦"},{"start":12227.22,"end":12229.22,"text":"那另外一個部分有關金門縣的財政"},{"start":12229.22,"end":12231.22,"text":"的這個部分啦"},{"start":12231.22,"end":12233.22,"text":"就是我們金九公司當然是我們金門的"},{"start":12233.22,"end":12235.22,"text":"地方的經濟母啦"},{"start":12235.22,"end":12237.22,"text":"那也是中央的納稅大戶啦"},{"start":12237.22,"end":12239.22,"text":"我想國庫署也知道"},{"start":12239.22,"end":12241.22,"text":"我們之前 以前菸酒專賣的時候"},{"start":12241.22,"end":12243.22,"text":"那我們這個財政"},{"start":12243.22,"end":12245.22,"text":"都自給自足"},{"start":12245.22,"end":12247.22,"text":"那後來變成菸酒稅以後"},{"start":12247.22,"end":12249.22,"text":"每一年繳很多稅給中央政府嘛"},{"start":12249.22,"end":12251.22,"text":"對吧"},{"start":12251.22,"end":12253.22,"text":"這個您知道吧 沒問題吧"},{"start":12253.22,"end":12255.22,"text":"不是附稅署啦 國庫署才知道"},{"start":12255.22,"end":12257.22,"text":"每一年繳很多稅嘛"},{"start":12257.22,"end":12259.22,"text":"那每一年繳很多稅"},{"start":12259.22,"end":12261.22,"text":"裁判法的這個38之一條有一個法定"},{"start":12261.22,"end":12263.22,"text":"補償義務"},{"start":12263.5,"end":12265.5,"text":"他規定說如果修法導致地方收入減少"},{"start":12265.5,"end":12267.5,"text":"中央要籌措替代財源"},{"start":12267.5,"end":12269.5,"text":"結果變成有菸酒稅以後"},{"start":12269.5,"end":12271.5,"text":"原本金門縣沒有不用繳的稅"},{"start":12271.5,"end":12273.5,"text":"這個菸酒稅變成我們多繳"},{"start":12273.5,"end":12275.5,"text":"我們金門縣一年多繳了幾十億給"},{"start":12275.5,"end":12277.5,"text":"這個我們台北的"},{"start":12277.5,"end":12279.5,"text":"中央政府嘛"},{"start":12280.8,"end":12282.8,"text":"所以之前裁判法都有"},{"start":12282.8,"end":12284.8,"text":"都有說要把金馬地區的這個菸酒稅"},{"start":12284.8,"end":12286.8,"text":"80%分配給各該縣嘛"},{"start":12286.8,"end":12288.8,"text":"這個我想行政院裁判法的版本也有嘛"},{"start":12288.8,"end":12290.8,"text":"行政院不分黨派執政的時候"},{"start":12290.8,"end":12292.8,"text":"國庫署知道嘛"},{"start":12292.8,"end":12294.8,"text":"都有嘛"},{"start":12294.8,"end":12296.8,"text":"那現在這個法條還沒有"},{"start":12298.68,"end":12300.68,"text":"裁判法還沒有修以前"},{"start":12300.68,"end":12302.68,"text":"那這個部分的話"},{"start":12302.68,"end":12304.68,"text":"怎麼樣給我們實質爭議"},{"start":12304.68,"end":12306.68,"text":"國庫署署長有沒有什麼想法"},{"start":12308,"end":12310,"text":"實質爭議"},{"start":12310,"end":12312,"text":"你知道我在說什麼吧"},{"start":12312,"end":12314,"text":"金門縣金門縣金門縣金門縣金門縣一年繳很多稅啊"},{"start":12314.29,"end":12316.29,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":12316.29,"end":12318.29,"text":"因為菸酒稅法依照規定"},{"start":12318.29,"end":12320.29,"text":"就是要繳菸酒稅"},{"start":12320.29,"end":12322.29,"text":"沒錯啊"},{"start":12322.29,"end":12324.29,"text":"那以前不用繳是專賣時期"},{"start":12324.29,"end":12326.29,"text":"那後來修法以後你讓金門縣政府"},{"start":12326.29,"end":12328.29,"text":"減少收入啊"},{"start":12328.29,"end":12330.29,"text":"增加支出啊"},{"start":12330.29,"end":12332.29,"text":"按照裁判法38之一條你要想辦法跟我們"},{"start":12332.29,"end":12334.29,"text":"回歸我們的正義啊"},{"start":12334.29,"end":12336.29,"text":"我們裁判法這一次114年"},{"start":12336.29,"end":12338.29,"text":"年底修正其實是在做裁員的分配"},{"start":12338.29,"end":12340.29,"text":"跟這一次"},{"start":12340.29,"end":12342.29,"text":"您剛剛提的這個"},{"start":12342.29,"end":12344.29,"text":"菸酒稅"},{"start":12344.29,"end":12346.29,"text":"的有沒有受到影響其實"},{"start":12346.29,"end":12348.29,"text":"是兩回事啊"},{"start":12348.29,"end":12350.29,"text":"那因為菸專賣這已經是很久以前的事了"},{"start":12350.29,"end":12352.29,"text":"對啊20年前"},{"start":12352.29,"end":12354.29,"text":"那轉型爭議也好久以前啊"},{"start":12354.29,"end":12356.29,"text":"你們不是一樣在爭取嗎"},{"start":12356.29,"end":12358.29,"text":"金門縣的轉型爭議在這裡啊"},{"start":12357.85,"end":12359.85,"text":"而且"},{"start":12359.85,"end":12361.85,"text":"裁劃法是通過的是行政院的"},{"start":12361.85,"end":12363.85,"text":"不是是國民黨的版本"},{"start":12363.85,"end":12365.85,"text":"在國民黨的版本裡面"},{"start":12365.85,"end":12367.85,"text":"所以我這是在補題這一條可以支持的喔"},{"start":12367.85,"end":12369.85,"text":"這裁劃法"},{"start":12369.85,"end":12371.85,"text":"修正是依照國民黨版本通過的"},{"start":12371.85,"end":12373.85,"text":"謝謝喔"},{"start":12373.85,"end":12375.85,"text":"那個這部分請財政部用書面答覆"},{"start":12375.85,"end":12377.85,"text":"好不好謝謝"},{"start":12379.09,"end":12381.09,"text":"下一位"},{"start":12381.09,"end":12383.09,"text":"謝謝陳先生委員的質詢下一位請葉源之委員質詢"},{"start":12383.09,"end":12385.09,"text":"葉源之委員質詢"},{"start":12385.09,"end":12387.09,"text":"葉源之不在"},{"start":12387.02,"end":12389.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12388.12,"end":12390.12,"text":"今日發言登記委員已經尋答完畢"},{"start":12390.12,"end":12392.12,"text":"本次會議做如下決議"},{"start":12392.12,"end":12394.12,"text":"一說明及尋答完畢"},{"start":12394.12,"end":12396.12,"text":"二委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資料"},{"start":12396.12,"end":12398.12,"text":"請相關部會"},{"start":12398.12,"end":12400.12,"text":"與州內以書面答覆"},{"start":12400.12,"end":12402.12,"text":"委員另要求其"},{"start":12402.12,"end":12404.12,"text":"憲者充其所定"},{"start":12406.08,"end":12408.08,"text":"有關"},{"start":12408.08,"end":12410.08,"text":"遺產及政與稅法修正法案第12案"},{"start":12410.08,"end":12412.08,"text":"土地稅法修正法案9案"},{"start":12412.08,"end":12414.08,"text":"房屋稅法"},{"start":12414.08,"end":12416.08,"text":"房屋稅條例修正法案9案"},{"start":12416.08,"end":12418.08,"text":"均令擇期繼續審查"},{"start":12419.54,"end":12421.54,"text":"本次會議審議進行完畢"},{"start":12421.54,"end":12423.54,"text":"團結不在場委員補題"},{"start":12423.54,"end":12425.54,"text":"順便質詢一畢列入記錄刊登公報"},{"start":12425.54,"end":12427.54,"text":"並請議事人員協助處理"},{"start":12427.54,"end":12429.54,"text":"現在宣布散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}