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家"},{"start":1778.63,"end":1780.63,"text":"就希望發揮你們寶貴的專業意見"},{"start":1780.63,"end":1781.63,"text":"給我們批評指教"},{"start":1781.63,"end":1783.63,"text":"那接下來我們來介紹"},{"start":1783.63,"end":1786.63,"text":"今天的學者專家"},{"start":1786.63,"end":1790.63,"text":"那我就按照剛剛來報到的順序"},{"start":1790.63,"end":1792.63,"text":"第一位是他的單位是"},{"start":1792.63,"end":1797.63,"text":"中華民國空軍退役中將田在邁將軍中將"},{"start":1797.63,"end":1798.63,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1799.16,"end":1802.16,"text":"第二位是中華民國海軍退役少將"},{"start":1802.16,"end":1804.16,"text":"夏光雅夏將軍歡迎您"},{"start":1805.13,"end":1811.13,"text":"第三位是資策會資訊工業測鏡會產業情報研究所的"},{"start":1811.13,"end":1814.13,"text":"洪春輝洪所長歡迎您"},{"start":1814.41,"end":1818.41,"text":"第四位是之陽之科技公司的"},{"start":1818.41,"end":1820.41,"text":"贊祥至總經理歡迎您"},{"start":1821.52,"end":1826.52,"text":"第五位是民傳大學公共事務學系的"},{"start":1826.52,"end":1829.52,"text":"紀俊辰紀教授歡迎您"},{"start":1830.48,"end":1835.48,"text":"以及第六位是中華戰略暨兵棋研究協會"},{"start":1835.48,"end":1837.48,"text":"黃介正理事長歡迎您"},{"start":1838.04,"end":1843.04,"text":"第七位是國立台灣大學機械工程學系"},{"start":1843.04,"end":1847.04,"text":"也是無人載具中心的李剛李教授歡迎您"},{"start":1848.6,"end":1852.6,"text":"第八位是洪生科技公司的"},{"start":1852.6,"end":1854.6,"text":"李東生理總經理歡迎您"},{"start":1855.96,"end":1857.96,"text":"第九位是台翔航太"},{"start":1859.18,"end":1864.18,"text":"工業的代理總經理呂宜萱呂總經理歡迎您"},{"start":1865.14,"end":1868.14,"text":"好那麼後續呢我們學者大家報到之後"},{"start":1868.14,"end":1870.14,"text":"還有第十位"},{"start":1870.14,"end":1872.14,"text":"國立台灣大學機械工程學系"},{"start":1872.14,"end":1874.14,"text":"中生特聘教授陳秉輝陳教授"},{"start":1875.16,"end":1877.16,"text":"那麼以及來的第十一位"},{"start":1877.16,"end":1881.16,"text":"全球防衛雜誌的陳國民採訪主任歡迎您"},{"start":1882.3,"end":1886.3,"text":"好那麼因為今天呢受邀的學者專家一共有14位"},{"start":1886.3,"end":1890.3,"text":"那我們後續還有三位呢報到後我們15位"},{"start":1892.11,"end":1896.11,"text":"喔對不起45位後續報到後我們會再跟他介紹"},{"start":1896.11,"end":1898.11,"text":"那接下來我們來"},{"start":1899.87,"end":1901.87,"text":"介紹我們的官員"},{"start":1902.52,"end":1907.52,"text":"那麼我們經濟部首先是產業發展署的周宇星周副署長歡迎您"},{"start":1908.73,"end":1909.23,"text":"以及"},{"start":1909.76,"end":1913.76,"text":"經濟部標準檢驗局的陳秋果檢證記證歡迎您"},{"start":1914.26,"end":1918.26,"text":"以及台灣電力公司供電處的林俊宏"},{"start":1918.26,"end":1920.26,"text":"林處長歡迎您"},{"start":1920.1,"end":1925.1,"text":"以及台灣國際造船股份有限公司的陳政鴻陳董事長"},{"start":1925.38,"end":1928.38,"text":"董事長預假出征啊所以把你們的模型放在台前喔"},{"start":1928.38,"end":1930.38,"text":"表示我們對你們的支持"},{"start":1931.63,"end":1937.63,"text":"好財政法人傳播進海洋產業研究研發中心中豐養副處長歡迎您"},{"start":1938.77,"end":1941.77,"text":"好接下來呢是國防部國防部非常重視喔"},{"start":1941.77,"end":1945.77,"text":"所以國防部呢是由常務次長陳文新陳常次歡迎您"},{"start":1946.14,"end":1949.14,"text":"那麼以及軍備局的王德本王副局長"},{"start":1951.81,"end":1952.81,"text":"有那到了嗎"},{"start":1953.35,"end":1956.35,"text":"謝謝您可以坐前面一點"},{"start":1956.35,"end":1962.35,"text":"好以及呢我們國防部主計局的謝其賢謝局長歡迎您"},{"start":1963.23,"end":1968.23,"text":"那麼財政部來的也是很重視喔是陳永勝陳政務次長歡迎您"},{"start":1968.63,"end":1972.63,"text":"以及附稅署的專門委員吳秀麟吳專門委員"},{"start":1973.93,"end":1975.93,"text":"你又站起來給大家看一下謝謝"},{"start":1975.93,"end":1978.93,"text":"還有國庫署的陳思宇陳科長喔好謝謝"},{"start":1978.93,"end":1983.93,"text":"交通部呢是由杭政司代表代理副市長我們段維平副市長歡迎您"},{"start":1985.41,"end":1989.41,"text":"那麼民國航空局呢是耿化耿副組長歡迎您又見面了"},{"start":1989.41,"end":1993.41,"text":"航港局是王世梅王副組長歡迎您"},{"start":1993.78,"end":1998.78,"text":"中華郵政公司是由柯清常科處長歡迎您"},{"start":1999.48,"end":2004.48,"text":"行政院公共工程委員會是來羅天劍羅主任秘書"},{"start":2004.78,"end":2006.78,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":2006,"end":2008,"text":"那麼內政部"},{"start":2009.93,"end":2012.93,"text":"內政部是由鄭信偉鄭參事"},{"start":2013.57,"end":2014.57,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":2014.57,"end":2019.57,"text":"那另外內政部有國家公元署綜合計畫組的陳慶芳陳川普委員歡迎您"},{"start":2020.59,"end":2023.59,"text":"警政署保防組的董欣欣副組長歡迎您"},{"start":2024.64,"end":2028.64,"text":"消防署救災救護組的陳世勳副組長歡迎您"},{"start":2029.37,"end":2034.37,"text":"那麼國家通訊傳播委員會來的是我們鄭敏成檢認記證歡迎您"},{"start":2035.34,"end":2039.34,"text":"處罰部是我們資通安全署的李東宜李組長歡迎您"},{"start":2039.34,"end":2043.34,"text":"中華電信是由吳亦周吳處長歡迎您"},{"start":2043.48,"end":2048.48,"text":"海洋委員會的綜合規劃處是由我們王庭傑王科長歡迎您"},{"start":2048.48,"end":2054.48,"text":"那麼其他的列席的相關主管機關及官員名單就請參閱"},{"start":2054.48,"end":2059.48,"text":"那接下來我們對今天的這個發言我大概是這樣說"},{"start":2059.48,"end":2064.48,"text":"首先我們會請經濟部代表來報告時間8分鐘"},{"start":2064.48,"end":2069.48,"text":"其餘有提書面報告的單位包括訴發部國防部財政部交通部"},{"start":2069.48,"end":2072.48,"text":"要補充時間給你5分鐘"},{"start":2072.48,"end":2076.48,"text":"那本次公聽會探討的議題以提価為準請自行參閱"},{"start":2076.48,"end":2082.48,"text":"那麼與會的專家學者代表我們會提供10分鐘的發言時間"},{"start":2082.48,"end":2085.48,"text":"第一輪的發言時間因為我想把發言時間都讓他知道一下"},{"start":2085.48,"end":2089.48,"text":"表示我們非常尊重與會的學者專家"},{"start":2089.48,"end":2093.48,"text":"那也給予我們行政機關充分的時間來進行"},{"start":2093.48,"end":2097.48,"text":"首先就經濟部代表來提出報告時間8分鐘謝謝"},{"start":2105.66,"end":2109.66,"text":"主席各位委員各位產業的先進各位女士先生大家好"},{"start":2109.66,"end":2114.66,"text":"今日由經濟委員會召開如何藉由五人載具專法"},{"start":2114.66,"end":2117.66,"text":"強化國防自主促進國防國際合作發展"},{"start":2118.77,"end":2122.77,"text":"本土產業的公聽會經濟部陳耀列席報告進行指教"},{"start":2123.8,"end":2127.8,"text":"近年在二屋中東等地的戰場實務經驗可見"},{"start":2127.8,"end":2131.8,"text":"低成本快速生產功能多元的五人載具"},{"start":2132.64,"end":2135.64,"text":"可有效消耗敵軍兵力與裝備"},{"start":2135.64,"end":2140.64,"text":"同時大幅降低自身人員傷亡充分展現不對稱作戰優勢"},{"start":2140.64,"end":2143.64,"text":"根據國防部公開資料指示"},{"start":2143.64,"end":2149.64,"text":"我國在四海島的地形浮原狹小眾生短潛"},{"start":2150.28,"end":2154.28,"text":"大規模五人載具的戰場應用結合地理優勢條件"},{"start":2154.28,"end":2158.28,"text":"與國軍現役各類型友人作戰系統相互協調"},{"start":2158.28,"end":2162.28,"text":"可提升防衛作戰各階段的作戰效能"},{"start":2164.1,"end":2166.1,"text":"從成的這個削弱戰果"},{"start":2166.76,"end":2169.76,"text":"因應中共軍事威脅持續的擴增"},{"start":2169.76,"end":2172.76,"text":"考量建軍需求急迫行政院擬具"},{"start":2172.76,"end":2175.76,"text":"國防自主五人載具採購特別條例草案"},{"start":2175.76,"end":2182.76,"text":"規劃在115年到120年間編列新台幣2100億元"},{"start":2183.47,"end":2186.47,"text":"快速籌措濱海針尖型文機"},{"start":2186.47,"end":2189.47,"text":"濱海攻擊型文機及小型自殺文艇"},{"start":2189.66,"end":2191.66,"text":"提升國軍不對稱作戰能力"},{"start":2191.66,"end":2193.66,"text":"考量國防自主五人載具的採購"},{"start":2193.66,"end":2197.66,"text":"需要因應國際情勢快速變化的特性"},{"start":2197.66,"end":2201.66,"text":"所以該條例的草案是採用特別預算的方式來編列"},{"start":2203.16,"end":2207.16,"text":"以規模穩定資源集中的特性來推動大量"},{"start":2207.16,"end":2210.16,"text":"長單疊帶更新的國防五人載具採購"},{"start":2210.16,"end":2214.16,"text":"確保國軍未來在戰場上隨時能夠保持後主根"},{"start":2214.16,"end":2215.16,"text":"不對稱戰力"},{"start":2215.16,"end":2218.16,"text":"同時也建立穩定跟自主的五人載具產業鏈"},{"start":2218.16,"end":2221.16,"text":"創造國防與民生的雙贏局面"},{"start":2222.54,"end":2226.54,"text":"那為了扶植國內的五人載具的產業"},{"start":2226.54,"end":2230.54,"text":"行政院也在114年的10月30號核定了"},{"start":2230.54,"end":2234.54,"text":"五人載具產業發展統籌型計畫"},{"start":2234.54,"end":2240.54,"text":"那在產業發展、國防自主、民主供應鏈的三大政策目標下"},{"start":2240.54,"end":2244.54,"text":"我們要建構我國完整五人載具的產業發展體系目標"},{"start":2244.54,"end":2248.54,"text":"在119年希望年產值可以達到400億元"},{"start":2248.54,"end":2252.54,"text":"打造台灣成為五人機民主供應鏈的亞太中心"},{"start":2253.92,"end":2259.92,"text":"統籌型計畫已經整合了科技計畫、公共建設以及國發基金等資源"},{"start":2259.92,"end":2264.92,"text":"規劃在114年到119年間投入大概442億元"},{"start":2264.92,"end":2265.92,"text":"並且從市場"},{"start":2266.8,"end":2267.8,"text":"結束"},{"start":2267.85,"end":2268.85,"text":"環境"},{"start":2269.06,"end":2273.06,"text":"還有法規四個面向來推動我國的五人載具產業發展"},{"start":2273.06,"end":2275.06,"text":"其中在市場面的部分"},{"start":2275.06,"end":2278.06,"text":"透過政府公務採購擴大內需"},{"start":2278.06,"end":2284.06,"text":"並以台灣卓越五人機海外商機聯盟帶動業者拓展歐美日海外市場"},{"start":2284.06,"end":2287.06,"text":"建立穩定且可預期的市場需求"},{"start":2287.06,"end":2291.06,"text":"另外也運用各項投資專案配合民間出資"},{"start":2291.06,"end":2294.06,"text":"共同投資業者滿足業者的資金需求"},{"start":2294.56,"end":2295.56,"text":"在技術面的部分"},{"start":2296.35,"end":2299.35,"text":"我們會投入開發非控系統"},{"start":2299.72,"end":2302.72,"text":"通訊模組、感測器等等的關鍵零組件"},{"start":2302.72,"end":2304.72,"text":"以及整機的自主研發"},{"start":2305.54,"end":2307.54,"text":"結合法人科專、業界科專等資源"},{"start":2307.54,"end":2309.54,"text":"來推動國際技術的交流"},{"start":2309.54,"end":2311.54,"text":"還有供應鏈的鏈結"},{"start":2311.54,"end":2313.54,"text":"來強化非控供應鏈的自主能力"},{"start":2314.96,"end":2316.96,"text":"在環境面的部分我們會推動"},{"start":2317.73,"end":2323.73,"text":"創新研發、生產製造還有飛行測試的三大功能場域"},{"start":2323.73,"end":2326.73,"text":"來形成產業聚落、構築完整的生態性"},{"start":2327.23,"end":2329.23,"text":"在第四個面向法規面的部分"},{"start":2329.23,"end":2332.23,"text":"我們因應無人載具應用情境廣泛"},{"start":2332.23,"end":2336.23,"text":"由交通部來修訂無人機水面及水下無人載具"},{"start":2336.23,"end":2339.23,"text":"特定測試水域的安全管理規範"},{"start":2340.29,"end":2344.29,"text":"保障無人載具運行安全與落實管理"},{"start":2344.29,"end":2348.29,"text":"經濟部則是針對兩公斤以下的無人機實施商品檢驗"},{"start":2348.29,"end":2350.29,"text":"持續完善檢測的能量"},{"start":2350.68,"end":2354.68,"text":"速發部協助完善資安規範及檢測制度"},{"start":2354.68,"end":2356.68,"text":"確保產品安全性"},{"start":2356.68,"end":2359.68,"text":"工程會則是嚴定政府採購作業指引"},{"start":2359.68,"end":2361.68,"text":"落實無人機飛行供應鏈的要求"},{"start":2362.58,"end":2367.58,"text":"除此之外,統籌型計劃也規範有追蹤管考、檢討經濟的機制"},{"start":2367.58,"end":2370.58,"text":"由行政院來邀集各部會定期召開"},{"start":2370.58,"end":2373.58,"text":"無人載具產業發展及管理機器的專案會議"},{"start":2373.58,"end":2378.58,"text":"統籌協調及推動無人載具產業發展的各項工作"},{"start":2379.3,"end":2386.3,"text":"台灣具備半導體、資通訊、電子零組件、精密機械、傳統製造等等的優勢產業"},{"start":2386.3,"end":2390.3,"text":"經濟部會配合統籌型計劃的推動,持續整合國內產業能量"},{"start":2391.2,"end":2395.2,"text":"協助業者投入無人載具整機及關鍵模組開發"},{"start":2395.2,"end":2398.2,"text":"補足技術及供應鏈的缺口"},{"start":2398.2,"end":2401.2,"text":"提升國內產業承接國防需求的能力"},{"start":2401.2,"end":2404.2,"text":"並建構自主安全且韌性的費用供應鏈"},{"start":2404.2,"end":2408.2,"text":"另外也會結合產業創新條例、研發補助、投資抵減"},{"start":2408.2,"end":2411.2,"text":"國家發展基金等等既有的政策工具"},{"start":2411.2,"end":2417.2,"text":"來協助中小微及傳統製造業投入無人載具的關鍵技術及供應鏈"},{"start":2417.2,"end":2419.2,"text":"促進產業升級轉型"},{"start":2419.2,"end":2421.2,"text":"兼顧國防自主與產業發展"},{"start":2422.42,"end":2426.42,"text":"有關其他平埔規劃相關的規範"},{"start":2426.42,"end":2428.42,"text":"涉及到NCC的全責"},{"start":2428.42,"end":2431.42,"text":"已經有現行的法規機制在依循辦理"},{"start":2431.42,"end":2435.42,"text":"至於無人載具的測試驗證、場域規劃等四項"},{"start":2435.42,"end":2437.42,"text":"也都納入了統籌型計劃推動"},{"start":2437.42,"end":2439.42,"text":"並由各主管機關依全責辦理中"},{"start":2440.71,"end":2445.71,"text":"同時也透過行政院召開無人載具的管理機制專案會議進行跨部會的協調"},{"start":2445.71,"end":2448.71,"text":"持續盤點法規跟制度的需求"},{"start":2448.71,"end":2451.71,"text":"滾動檢討與經濟相關配套措施"},{"start":2451.71,"end":2453.71,"text":"在兼顧公共安全及飛航秩序下"},{"start":2453.71,"end":2456.71,"text":"營造有力的無人載具產業發展環境"},{"start":2456.71,"end":2459.71,"text":"最後感謝各位委員、各位先進"},{"start":2459.71,"end":2463.71,"text":"對於國防自主與無人載具產業發展的關心與支持"},{"start":2463.71,"end":2468.71,"text":"無人載具已經成為國家安全與產業發展的重要戰略產業"},{"start":2468.71,"end":2471.71,"text":"透過行政院無人載具產業發展統籌型計劃"},{"start":2471.71,"end":2474.71,"text":"整合市場技術、環境、法規等資源"},{"start":2474.71,"end":2477.71,"text":"再加上既有的相關法令"},{"start":2477.71,"end":2480.71,"text":"也已經建置了相關的獎勵跟管理制度"},{"start":2480.71,"end":2482.71,"text":"將進一步完善產業發展環境"},{"start":2482.71,"end":2485.71,"text":"扶植本土無人載具產業"},{"start":2485.71,"end":2488.71,"text":"並強化我國在民主供應鏈中的關鍵地位"},{"start":2490.06,"end":2496.06,"text":"但是因為因應國防自主無人載具採購及戰力建置的急迫需求"},{"start":2496.06,"end":2500.06,"text":"建請各位委員、各位先進支持我們行政院所提的"},{"start":2500.06,"end":2504.06,"text":"國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案"},{"start":2504.06,"end":2508.06,"text":"以特別預算的方式來集中支援加速推動"},{"start":2508.06,"end":2510.06,"text":"以兼顧國防戰力建置時效"},{"start":2510.06,"end":2513.06,"text":"以及國內無人載具產業的發展"},{"start":2513.06,"end":2516.06,"text":"以上報告,敬請各位委員、各位先進、敬請指教"},{"start":2516.06,"end":2519.06,"text":"那祝各位身體健康,官事如意,謝謝"},{"start":2519.89,"end":2521.89,"text":"好,謝謝經濟部代表報告"},{"start":2521.89,"end":2526.89,"text":"那接下來議會陸續邀請國防部、財政部、交通部及速發部"},{"start":2526.89,"end":2530.89,"text":"那由於兩部呢,國防跟財政兩部是次長來"},{"start":2530.89,"end":2533.89,"text":"所以時間五分鐘,必要時的延長三分鐘"},{"start":2533.89,"end":2536.89,"text":"以示我們的禮遇,那就請我們國防部的陳次長"},{"start":2545.22,"end":2550.22,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位先進、各位政大學者,大家早安"},{"start":2550.22,"end":2557.22,"text":"國防部,針對這一次的公聽會,我們的這個說明如下"},{"start":2557.22,"end":2558.22,"text":"第一個,近年"},{"start":2559.24,"end":2565.24,"text":"二戰爭還有中東等第多個戰場,他的實戰經驗都已經顯示"},{"start":2565.24,"end":2569.24,"text":"無人載具已經成為現代作戰的重要戰力"},{"start":2569.24,"end":2576.24,"text":"他具備低成本、高效益、可大量部署,以及快速補充這些特性"},{"start":2576.24,"end":2585.24,"text":"可有效執行勤堅增,目標獲得火力導引、精準打擊以及戰損評估,這些綜合的任務"},{"start":2585.24,"end":2590.24,"text":"消耗敵方高價值的兵力和裝備,降低我方人員的傷亡"},{"start":2591.49,"end":2594.49,"text":"充分展現不對稱作戰的一個優勢"},{"start":2595.29,"end":2600.29,"text":"另外國防部,在去年我們提出了1.25兆的特別預算"},{"start":2600.29,"end":2604.29,"text":"包含了各式的無人機,還有反制的無人機系統"},{"start":2604.29,"end":2608.29,"text":"但是最終只有通過7800億對美的軍購"},{"start":2609.34,"end":2613.34,"text":"沒有辦法滿足國軍的一個迫切的作戰需求"},{"start":2613.34,"end":2614.34,"text":"所以為了確保"},{"start":2614.93,"end":2617.93,"text":"國家安全還有守護人民的福祉"},{"start":2617.93,"end":2620.93,"text":"這一直都是國防部的首要任務"},{"start":2621.53,"end":2627.53,"text":"我們在今年又提出了國防自主,無人載具採購的一個特別條例"},{"start":2627.53,"end":2629.53,"text":"這個就是要彌補"},{"start":2629.97,"end":2634.97,"text":"原來1.25兆遭刪除的暗項,所造成的一個戰力的缺口"},{"start":2635.91,"end":2643.91,"text":"而且裡面有關兵海艦針型無人機、兵海打擊、還有小型自殺無人艇"},{"start":2643.91,"end":2649.91,"text":"這三個裝備都是國防部借鑒惡物戰爭的一個實戰的經驗"},{"start":2649.91,"end":2655.91,"text":"而且長達兩年深入的一個研究,所確立最符合國軍作戰需求的一個裝備"},{"start":2655.91,"end":2660.91,"text":"期望委員還有社會各界都能夠支持,謝謝"},{"start":2668.07,"end":2672.07,"text":"謝謝國防部的報告,接下來我們請財政部次長陳次長"},{"start":2683.78,"end":2689.78,"text":"主席、各位委員、與會的學者專家、各位女士先生,大家好"},{"start":2690.02,"end":2698.02,"text":"貴文會舉辦了今天的一個強化國防的一個自主,促進國際合作發展本土產業的一個公聽會"},{"start":2700.25,"end":2709.25,"text":"促進無人載具供應鏈及相關製造業等轉型的一個升級,涉及到財政部的業務的部分,僅僅要說明如下"},{"start":2709.97,"end":2713.97,"text":"為了鼓勵企業轉型升級,以及提升產業的競爭力"},{"start":2714.75,"end":2722.75,"text":"產業促進升級條例,就資金面、人才面,以及技術面提供多項的功能別的租稅優惠"},{"start":2723.03,"end":2726.03,"text":"包含研究發展支出的一個抵減"},{"start":2726.61,"end":2727.61,"text":"智慧機械的"},{"start":2728.48,"end":2729.48,"text":"投資地檢,以及"},{"start":2730.76,"end":2737.76,"text":"通訊5G,資通安全,人工智慧與節能減碳等設備多項的投資地檢"},{"start":2738.71,"end":2741.71,"text":"實質投資列為未分配盈餘的一個簡項"},{"start":2742.79,"end":2744.79,"text":"員工獎酬股票"},{"start":2744.97,"end":2749.97,"text":"的一個部分可以選擇折低來課稅等多項的租稅優惠"},{"start":2749.97,"end":2755.97,"text":"另外,為了引進外國營利事業先進資生產技術或產品"},{"start":2755.97,"end":2758.97,"text":"以提升我國企業的競爭力"},{"start":2758.97,"end":2762.97,"text":"在所得稅法第四條第一項21款"},{"start":2762.97,"end":2768.97,"text":"也提供了營利事業支付外國營利事業權利金或技術"},{"start":2769.42,"end":2773.42,"text":"金服務報酬免納所得稅優惠規定"},{"start":2773.42,"end":2775.42,"text":"適度減輕"},{"start":2775.82,"end":2777.82,"text":"國內企業的製造成本負擔"},{"start":2779.46,"end":2782.46,"text":"企業投資在無人載具的一個研發"},{"start":2782.89,"end":2786.89,"text":"這一個上面在人才培育跟設備的一個支出"},{"start":2786.89,"end":2787.89,"text":"符合規定者"},{"start":2788.69,"end":2792.69,"text":"為使用國外營利事業授權關鍵技術等"},{"start":2792.69,"end":2797.69,"text":"符合規定者均可申請適用三開租稅優惠的規定"},{"start":2797.69,"end":2802.69,"text":"有助於國內無人載具的一個產業來轉型升級"},{"start":2802.69,"end":2805.69,"text":"並促進國際的一個合作發展"},{"start":2805.69,"end":2807.69,"text":"以上說明盡情指教"},{"start":2807.69,"end":2808.69,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2809.7,"end":2812.7,"text":"謝謝陳東吳代表陳執行長的報告發言"},{"start":2812.7,"end":2814.7,"text":"接下來有請交通部代表"},{"start":2815.34,"end":2816.34,"text":"請"},{"start":2818.32,"end":2820.32,"text":"那麼做發布代表請準備"},{"start":2829.72,"end":2832.72,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好"},{"start":2832.72,"end":2834.72,"text":"今天交通部應邀各位委員會"},{"start":2834.72,"end":2838.72,"text":"針對無人載具的專法強化國防自主"},{"start":2838.72,"end":2842.72,"text":"來促進國際合作發展本土產業的公聽會"},{"start":2842.72,"end":2845.72,"text":"涉及交通部業務的部分說明如下"},{"start":2845.72,"end":2849.72,"text":"那近年因為全球無人載具技術的快速發展"},{"start":2849.72,"end":2853.72,"text":"那針對推動無人載具相關的法規政策"},{"start":2853.72,"end":2857.72,"text":"涉及到國防安全等等相關的多元面向"},{"start":2857.72,"end":2860.72,"text":"那麼針對目前為了要確保國家安全"},{"start":2860.72,"end":2864.72,"text":"跟我們的航行運作都能夠兼顧"},{"start":2864.72,"end":2868.72,"text":"然後也能夠協助提升我們無人機產品驗證的能量"},{"start":2868.72,"end":2871.72,"text":"那民航局和經濟部標準檢驗局"},{"start":2871.72,"end":2874.72,"text":"在113年12月1日起"},{"start":2874.72,"end":2878.72,"text":"分階段來推動無人機產品源頭的管理制度"},{"start":2878.72,"end":2880.72,"text":"那其中兩公斤以下市售無人機"},{"start":2880.72,"end":2883.72,"text":"由標準檢驗局辦理商品的檢驗"},{"start":2883.72,"end":2885.72,"text":"那兩公斤以上市售無人機"},{"start":2885.72,"end":2888.72,"text":"那無人機則由民航局辦理形式的檢驗"},{"start":2888.72,"end":2892.72,"text":"那兩機關採取一致的安全規範及檢驗的標準"},{"start":2892.72,"end":2896.72,"text":"那希望能夠降低業者重複檢驗的成本"},{"start":2896.72,"end":2898.72,"text":"加速產品上市"},{"start":2898.72,"end":2901.72,"text":"來提升我們無人機產業的競爭力"},{"start":2901.72,"end":2903.72,"text":"那在無人機測試方面"},{"start":2903.72,"end":2907.72,"text":"民航局也已經建立了完整的一個是非的管理制度"},{"start":2907.72,"end":2909.72,"text":"那依照現行民用航空法"},{"start":2909.72,"end":2912.72,"text":"以及遙控無人機管理規則的規定"},{"start":2912.72,"end":2915.72,"text":"業者可以在400公尺以下的綠區空域"},{"start":2915.72,"end":2917.72,"text":"遵守5要5不要的規定"},{"start":2917.72,"end":2921.72,"text":"無需申請同意及進行飛行的測試"},{"start":2921.72,"end":2923.72,"text":"那如果在400尺以上"},{"start":2923.72,"end":2925.72,"text":"夜間或視距外的飛行"},{"start":2925.72,"end":2928.72,"text":"等等的特殊的測試需求"},{"start":2928.72,"end":2931.72,"text":"也可以向民航局提出申請"},{"start":2931.72,"end":2935.72,"text":"那民航局也會依照飛航安全和風險管理的原則"},{"start":2935.72,"end":2936.72,"text":"來辦理審查"},{"start":2936.72,"end":2940.72,"text":"那麼來配合產業研發及驗證的需求"},{"start":2940.72,"end":2947.72,"text":"此外呢民航局也盤點了全國有18處中小型無人機飛測場域"},{"start":2947.72,"end":2950.72,"text":"另外在嘉義的水上和屏東恆春"},{"start":2950.72,"end":2953.72,"text":"也有兩處大型的飛測場域"},{"start":2953.72,"end":2958.72,"text":"來提供產官學研各界辦理是非驗證及技術研發使用"},{"start":2958.72,"end":2962.72,"text":"那麼針對水面及水下的無人載具的測試場域"},{"start":2962.72,"end":2965.72,"text":"航港局也已經完成了盤點"},{"start":2965.72,"end":2967.72,"text":"那目前包含有9處商港"},{"start":2967.72,"end":2969.72,"text":"5處的水庫"},{"start":2969.72,"end":2971.72,"text":"以及2處的專屬水域"},{"start":2971.72,"end":2976.72,"text":"那後續也會持續新增測試的水域來提供相關業者應用"},{"start":2976.72,"end":2981.72,"text":"那此外航港局也訂定了相關的強運活動的安全規範"},{"start":2981.72,"end":2982.72,"text":"以及"},{"start":2983.41,"end":2986.41,"text":"水下無人載具的一般性的安全管理規範等"},{"start":2986.41,"end":2989.41,"text":"那未來也會研修傳播法"},{"start":2989.41,"end":2993.41,"text":"將我們的水面自主傳播以及水面無人載具納入管理規範"},{"start":2993.41,"end":2995.41,"text":"來提升操作使用的安全"},{"start":2995.41,"end":3000.41,"text":"那針對未來整個無人載具產業的發展"},{"start":3000.41,"end":3006.41,"text":"那交通部民航局以及航港局也會持續配合行政院的整體政策及各主管的分工"},{"start":3006.41,"end":3009.41,"text":"來適時檢討我們相關的安全管理制度"},{"start":3009.41,"end":3011.41,"text":"那以上交通部的報告"},{"start":3011.41,"end":3013.41,"text":"那今天就先到這裡"},{"start":3013.41,"end":3014.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3014.41,"end":3015.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3015.41,"end":3016.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3016.41,"end":3017.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3017.41,"end":3018.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3018.41,"end":3019.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3019.41,"end":3020.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3020.41,"end":3021.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3021.41,"end":3022.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3022.41,"end":3023.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3023.41,"end":3024.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3024.41,"end":3025.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3025.41,"end":3026.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3026.41,"end":3027.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3027.41,"end":3028.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3028.41,"end":3029.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3029.41,"end":3030.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3030.41,"end":3031.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3031.41,"end":3032.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3032.41,"end":3033.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3033.41,"end":3034.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3034.41,"end":3035.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3035.41,"end":3036.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3036.41,"end":3037.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3037.41,"end":3038.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3038.41,"end":3039.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3039.41,"end":3040.41,"text":"我們就先到這裡"},{"start":3014.56,"end":3015.56,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":3015.56,"end":3018.56,"text":"那麼接下來請速發部代表發言"},{"start":3032.13,"end":3035.13,"text":"主席 各位委員女士先生大家早"},{"start":3035.13,"end":3037.13,"text":"今天應邀列席"},{"start":3037.13,"end":3041.13,"text":"數位發展部針對如何藉由無人載具專訪"},{"start":3041.13,"end":3042.13,"text":"強化國防自主"},{"start":3042.13,"end":3046.13,"text":"促進國際合作發展本土產業公聽會"},{"start":3046.13,"end":3048.13,"text":"緊究本部的相關任務"},{"start":3048.13,"end":3050.13,"text":"向各位說明如下"},{"start":3050.78,"end":3053.78,"text":"無人載具科技的快速發展與戰場應用"},{"start":3053.78,"end":3056.78,"text":"已經徹底改變了現代的作戰形態"},{"start":3056.78,"end":3058.78,"text":"展現不對稱作戰的優勢"},{"start":3059.99,"end":3061.99,"text":"為無人載具使用的非控"},{"start":3062.69,"end":3064.69,"text":"通訊導航等關鍵零組件"},{"start":3064.69,"end":3067.69,"text":"高度涉及國家安全還有資通安全"},{"start":3069.1,"end":3072.1,"text":"防範通訊及導航導控等議題"},{"start":3072.1,"end":3074.1,"text":"可能衍生了潛在資安風險"},{"start":3074.1,"end":3077.1,"text":"實為建構我國國防持續"},{"start":3077.1,"end":3080.1,"text":"平戰轉換防護韌性等"},{"start":3080.1,"end":3082.1,"text":"刻不容緩的戰略核心"},{"start":3082.91,"end":3084.91,"text":"有關無人機的資安檢測規範"},{"start":3085.51,"end":3087.51,"text":"數位發展部已經配合交通部"},{"start":3087.51,"end":3089.51,"text":"遙控無人機管理規則"},{"start":3090.33,"end":3093.33,"text":"會賢交通部訂定了遙控無人機資安檢測"},{"start":3094.23,"end":3096.23,"text":"規範"},{"start":3095.45,"end":3098.45,"text":"完備國內資安檢測法制化的依據"},{"start":3098.72,"end":3102.72,"text":"在115年4月30日也會賢了交通部修正前開的規範"},{"start":3103.7,"end":3105.7,"text":"納入了美國的綠標"},{"start":3105.7,"end":3109.7,"text":"Green UAS還有我國的CNS 18031的標準"},{"start":3109.7,"end":3112.7,"text":"增訂了產品的測試準則"},{"start":3112.7,"end":3115.7,"text":"減少無人機廠商送測的成本"},{"start":3115.7,"end":3117.7,"text":"也提升了產品的國際競爭力"},{"start":3117.7,"end":3120.7,"text":"也促進國內無人機產業的發展"},{"start":3121.21,"end":3126.21,"text":"另外數位部也配合了經濟部無人載具科技創新的實驗條例"},{"start":3126.21,"end":3134.21,"text":"在114年2月公告的修正可供創新實驗運用之無線電頻率與其地理範圍"},{"start":3134.68,"end":3136.68,"text":"實驗期限還有其他相關條件"},{"start":3137.75,"end":3139.75,"text":"只要符合公告範圍"},{"start":3139.75,"end":3144.75,"text":"就可以免去頻率和配等相關法制的限制還有行政程序"},{"start":3145.97,"end":3148.97,"text":"也促進了無人載具相關的產業創新研發"},{"start":3150,"end":3156,"text":"數位部這邊也會持續的聽取產業的意見滾動檢討修正該公告"},{"start":3156.96,"end":3160.96,"text":"數位部會全力配合行政院的整體國家安全的考量"},{"start":3161.53,"end":3164.53,"text":"且本於全責發揮數位還有資安的專業"},{"start":3165.26,"end":3169.26,"text":"全力來協同各主管機關共同的嚴格把關資通訊的安全"},{"start":3170.35,"end":3175.35,"text":"那綜上所述數位部會持續配合行政院以及相關法制的進程"},{"start":3175.57,"end":3178.57,"text":"並尊重主管機關及大院的最後決議"},{"start":3178.57,"end":3179.57,"text":"以上"},{"start":3180.66,"end":3182.66,"text":"好謝謝蘇發布代表的發言"},{"start":3182.66,"end":3188.66,"text":"因為我們委員會在上午有收到後續三個部會單位的書面資料"},{"start":3188.66,"end":3192.66,"text":"分別是公共工程委員會NCC與中華電信"},{"start":3192.66,"end":3196.66,"text":"那請問在場如果要補充我們給三分鐘的時間補充"},{"start":3196.66,"end":3201.66,"text":"請問公共工程委員會的羅主任民宿要補充嗎"},{"start":3201.66,"end":3202.66,"text":"沒有"},{"start":3202.66,"end":3207.66,"text":"好請教NCC的代表鄭捷能濟政要補充嗎"},{"start":3208,"end":3209,"text":"沒有"},{"start":3209,"end":3212,"text":"那請問中華電信的處長有沒有補充"},{"start":3212.91,"end":3217.91,"text":"沒有好那以上有這些單位提供報告跟書面意見"},{"start":3217.91,"end":3222.91,"text":"那接下來我們就依序補充介紹剛剛到場的學者專家"},{"start":3223.9,"end":3228.9,"text":"曾聚威國政基金會的財政組召集人曾教授謝謝您"},{"start":3228.9,"end":3234.9,"text":"以及國立政治大學法律學院的陳柏良助理教授歡迎您"},{"start":3235.8,"end":3240.8,"text":"那因為剛剛我們對於學者專家發言時間已經說了"},{"start":3240.8,"end":3243.8,"text":"我們學者專家時間十分鐘"},{"start":3243.8,"end":3247.8,"text":"那原則上由學者專家先行一簽到順序發言"},{"start":3247.8,"end":3251.8,"text":"那本院委員如要發言請到主席台前來登記"},{"start":3251.8,"end":3257.8,"text":"那我們會讓兩位學者專家發言之後安排一位委員來發言"},{"start":3257.8,"end":3260.8,"text":"那麼發言台正前方的燈號是倒數計時"},{"start":3260.8,"end":3263.8,"text":"所以請各位學者專家注意發言結束時間"},{"start":3264.55,"end":3266.55,"text":"前一分鐘會暗鈴一聲"},{"start":3267.94,"end":3270.94,"text":"還有一分鐘時間到會暗鈴兩分鐘"},{"start":3270.94,"end":3272.94,"text":"那全部與會人員發言完畢後"},{"start":3272.94,"end":3275.94,"text":"我們會再請行政機關做整體回應"},{"start":3275.94,"end":3279.94,"text":"那因為今天我們尊重各位學者專家出席時間"},{"start":3279.94,"end":3285.94,"text":"有限之前在開始之前有來跟主席台這邊表示有時間的"},{"start":3285.94,"end":3288.94,"text":"我們會盡量的讓您提早發言"},{"start":3288.94,"end":3291.94,"text":"那也徵求各位先簽到"},{"start":3292.85,"end":3294.85,"text":"順序的委員的同意"},{"start":3294.85,"end":3295.85,"text":"那這當中呢"},{"start":3295.85,"end":3297.85,"text":"包括黃介正理事長"},{"start":3297.85,"end":3299.85,"text":"包括陳柏良助理教授"},{"start":3299.89,"end":3301.89,"text":"對不起是陳秉輝教授"},{"start":3301.89,"end":3304.89,"text":"因為他們有時間上的限制我會適當的調節"},{"start":3304.89,"end":3307.89,"text":"那就請我再調整發行順序"},{"start":3307.89,"end":3310.89,"text":"請學者專家們可以接受"},{"start":3310.89,"end":3312.89,"text":"那接下來我們首先第一位"},{"start":3312.89,"end":3316.89,"text":"是由登記第一位的田再邁中將發言請"},{"start":3317.54,"end":3318.54,"text":"時間十分鐘"},{"start":3329.91,"end":3331.91,"text":"今天來這邊參加這個會議"},{"start":3331.91,"end":3333.91,"text":"各單位報的資料都非常好"},{"start":3333.91,"end":3337.91,"text":"但根據我過去的一些在軍事上還有國防上的經驗"},{"start":3337.91,"end":3341.91,"text":"我提供七點供大家參考一下"},{"start":3341.91,"end":3344.91,"text":"第一個就講叫這個Airspace coordination"},{"start":3344.91,"end":3348.91,"text":"所以在這個測試場裡面所有單位你必須要協調機制"},{"start":3348.91,"end":3352.91,"text":"那平常如果練得好的話你在作戰的時候更沒有問題"},{"start":3352.91,"end":3355.91,"text":"但是平常如果練不好作戰情況更複雜"},{"start":3355.91,"end":3357.91,"text":"那包括現在空域裡面"},{"start":3357.91,"end":3360.91,"text":"就是如果協調的話你所有參與的單位"},{"start":3360.91,"end":3364.91,"text":"必須要有下面幾點要稍微注意到一下"},{"start":3364.91,"end":3366.91,"text":"就是說預防有軍的誤擊"},{"start":3366.91,"end":3369.91,"text":"第二個是動態的空地整合"},{"start":3369.91,"end":3373.91,"text":"然後還有這個電池頻譜的管理"},{"start":3374.59,"end":3376.59,"text":"以及這個效益倍增"},{"start":3376.59,"end":3380.59,"text":"還有友人和無人的這個系統作戰"},{"start":3380.59,"end":3384.59,"text":"以及這個民事和公共安全的這個同步化"},{"start":3384.59,"end":3389.59,"text":"那第二點就是談到這個Frequency allocation"},{"start":3389.59,"end":3391.59,"text":"就是這個頻率的分配"},{"start":3391.59,"end":3394.59,"text":"分配裡面包含在實戰和演訓"},{"start":3394.59,"end":3398.59,"text":"那個電池頻譜和這個空域水域等等"},{"start":3398.59,"end":3402.59,"text":"你都是很容易會有陰塞的這個情況"},{"start":3402.59,"end":3404.59,"text":"所以說在我們這個無人系統裡面"},{"start":3404.59,"end":3407.59,"text":"包含在路面還有海上等等"},{"start":3409.59,"end":3411.59,"text":"無人系統的控制"},{"start":3411.85,"end":3413.85,"text":"圖傳數據"},{"start":3414.15,"end":3416.15,"text":"還有定位等等"},{"start":3416.15,"end":3418.15,"text":"要根據這個電波來"},{"start":3418.15,"end":3420.15,"text":"無線電波來做這些處置"},{"start":3420.15,"end":3422.15,"text":"所以說在"},{"start":3422.37,"end":3424.37,"text":"這個情況下"},{"start":3424.37,"end":3426.37,"text":"所以大家要注意到這個避免"},{"start":3426.37,"end":3428.37,"text":"第一個是自家干擾"},{"start":3428.22,"end":3432.22,"text":"第二個是避免跟友軍的電戰自相殘殺"},{"start":3432.22,"end":3436.22,"text":"第三個是包含跨軍種或跨領域的情況"},{"start":3436.22,"end":3441.22,"text":"第四個是提升反電池偵測和反干擾能力"},{"start":3441.22,"end":3446.22,"text":"第五點是確保失控之後保護以及反制的機制"},{"start":3446.22,"end":3450.22,"text":"第三個大家都有提到這個Test range測試場"},{"start":3450.22,"end":3454.22,"text":"那測試場因為是要有屬於這種"},{"start":3454.22,"end":3457.22,"text":"不管是空的或地的或路的"},{"start":3457.22,"end":3460.22,"text":"你當然有專業的測試場"},{"start":3460.22,"end":3462.22,"text":"因為這是國家的戰略級的基礎設施"},{"start":3462.22,"end":3466.22,"text":"那這個基礎設施裡面包含所有的軟硬體"},{"start":3466.22,"end":3469.22,"text":"還有相關的移電等等的配套措施"},{"start":3469.22,"end":3473.22,"text":"那有幾個關鍵的維度就包含到感測器的校準"},{"start":3473.22,"end":3476.22,"text":"和多元資料的融合驗證"},{"start":3476.87,"end":3481.87,"text":"第二個就是極限環境和載具的物理性能的驗證"},{"start":3481.87,"end":3485.87,"text":"第三個是電池和電訊環境的測試"},{"start":3485.87,"end":3492.87,"text":"以及數位累積和數位分身建構的相關的情況"},{"start":3494.03,"end":3497.03,"text":"第五個就是有關跨域和多人機的這個"},{"start":3497.03,"end":3501.03,"text":"或多人船的這個協調的情況"},{"start":3501.03,"end":3503.03,"text":"第四點是也非常重要"},{"start":3503.03,"end":3506.03,"text":"就是我們講的這個Company的DD"},{"start":3506.03,"end":3507.03,"text":"Due Deligion"},{"start":3507.03,"end":3509.03,"text":"因為在你在採購這些系統的時候"},{"start":3509.03,"end":3511.03,"text":"你不管是任何單位"},{"start":3511.48,"end":3513.48,"text":"在這個招標的時候"},{"start":3513.48,"end":3517.48,"text":"一定要把這個DD列入這個審查的這個資格"},{"start":3517.48,"end":3519.48,"text":"如果不符合這個資格的話"},{"start":3519.48,"end":3521.48,"text":"後面可以減少很多的事情"},{"start":3521.48,"end":3525.48,"text":"那主要的原因是包含有下面幾點就是說"},{"start":3525.48,"end":3527.48,"text":"供應鏈的安全"},{"start":3527.48,"end":3530.48,"text":"還有要去掉這個紅色的供應鏈"},{"start":3530.48,"end":3532.48,"text":"就是老公那邊做的東西"},{"start":3532.48,"end":3534.48,"text":"那第二個是資訊和安全"},{"start":3534.48,"end":3536.48,"text":"還有這個防後門的機制"},{"start":3536.96,"end":3540.96,"text":"第三個就是全生命週期後勤和營運的這個持續性"},{"start":3540.96,"end":3542.96,"text":"那第四個當然是扯到自衛財產權"},{"start":3542.96,"end":3544.96,"text":"還有法律的這個規範"},{"start":3544.96,"end":3548.96,"text":"第五個當然是實際的驗證和團隊的相關作業情況"},{"start":3548.96,"end":3551.96,"text":"那第五點就是一定要"},{"start":3551.96,"end":3553.96,"text":"如果跟國外廠商合作的話"},{"start":3553.96,"end":3556.96,"text":"你必須要有這個Export License"},{"start":3556.96,"end":3559.96,"text":"那你要取得這個Export License以後"},{"start":3559.96,"end":3562.96,"text":"那對後面的作業比較容易進行"},{"start":3562.96,"end":3565.96,"text":"當然大家也知道你要取得這個Export License"},{"start":3567.32,"end":3569.32,"text":"那即便跟外國公司合作"},{"start":3569.32,"end":3572.32,"text":"外國公司也會到我們國內來做相關的這個驗證"},{"start":3572.32,"end":3574.32,"text":"看你夠不夠資格"},{"start":3574.32,"end":3576.32,"text":"雖然是很嚴謹"},{"start":3576.32,"end":3578.32,"text":"但是最起碼你過關以後"},{"start":3578.32,"end":3580.32,"text":"你後面可以敞開來做相關的這個作為"},{"start":3580.32,"end":3583.32,"text":"那主要的核心原因就是有"},{"start":3583.32,"end":3585.32,"text":"要確保合約的這個可履行性"},{"start":3585.32,"end":3588.32,"text":"而且防止這個專案的斷頭"},{"start":3588.32,"end":3590.32,"text":"那第二個就是保障"},{"start":3590.73,"end":3595.73,"text":"這個全壽命週期的這個後勤和零付錢的供應"},{"start":3595.73,"end":3600.73,"text":"第三個是避免採購單位遭到國際制裁或二次的制裁"},{"start":3600.73,"end":3603.73,"text":"第四個是明確的要有最終使用者承諾"},{"start":3603.73,"end":3608.73,"text":"以及再出口限制的相關的這個規範與條件"},{"start":3608.73,"end":3611.73,"text":"第五個就是界別廠商真正的這個能力"},{"start":3611.73,"end":3613.73,"text":"國際的這個效益"},{"start":3614.1,"end":3617.1,"text":"第六點是也是很重要"},{"start":3617.1,"end":3619.1,"text":"雖然說是講這個POC"},{"start":3619.1,"end":3620.1,"text":"Proof of Concept"},{"start":3620.1,"end":3623.1,"text":"但實際上就是講測試與評估"},{"start":3623.1,"end":3629.1,"text":"因為你這個POC是扮演一個從規格走向真實占利的一個核心關卡"},{"start":3629.1,"end":3632.1,"text":"所以你必須要有這個公司的DD以後"},{"start":3632.1,"end":3634.1,"text":"然後做相關的這個作為"},{"start":3634.1,"end":3637.1,"text":"但是在我們測試武器系統裡面"},{"start":3637.1,"end":3641.1,"text":"包含當年包括IDF的相關的測試"},{"start":3641.1,"end":3643.1,"text":"F16的雖然說是美國製的"},{"start":3643.1,"end":3645.1,"text":"但我們國家的作戰環境不同"},{"start":3645.1,"end":3646.1,"text":"系統不同"},{"start":3646.1,"end":3649.1,"text":"所以說我們也做相關的測試做修改"},{"start":3649.1,"end":3651.1,"text":"這裡面有幾個重要的就是說"},{"start":3651.1,"end":3654.1,"text":"作戰的研發的測試是廠家"},{"start":3654.1,"end":3656.1,"text":"他要符合規範就好"},{"start":3656.1,"end":3659.1,"text":"軍方的話或N-User的話"},{"start":3659.1,"end":3661.1,"text":"你要做這個作戰測試評估"},{"start":3661.1,"end":3663.1,"text":"就是我們常講的這個OT演繹"},{"start":3663.1,"end":3666.1,"text":"當然裡面包含著作戰效益的發揮"},{"start":3667.36,"end":3669.36,"text":"而且了解它的存活度"},{"start":3669.36,"end":3672.36,"text":"後勤的部分你包含著這個"},{"start":3672.36,"end":3673.36,"text":"作戰適應性"},{"start":3673.36,"end":3676.36,"text":"那裡面又包含了這個後勤的可靠度"},{"start":3676.36,"end":3677.36,"text":"RELIABILITY"},{"start":3677.36,"end":3679.36,"text":"還有它的維護度"},{"start":3679.36,"end":3680.36,"text":"Maintainability"},{"start":3680.36,"end":3682.36,"text":"還有這個後勤支援度"},{"start":3682.36,"end":3683.36,"text":"Supportability"},{"start":3683.36,"end":3685.36,"text":"你可以負擔的程度"},{"start":3685.36,"end":3686.36,"text":"就是這個Affordability"},{"start":3686.36,"end":3689.36,"text":"最後一點我要強調的就是"},{"start":3689.36,"end":3692.36,"text":"今天在各單位報告裡面沒有提到"},{"start":3692.36,"end":3693.36,"text":"就是說"},{"start":3693.36,"end":3695.36,"text":"在採購這些武器系統裡面"},{"start":3695.36,"end":3698.36,"text":"應該將產學合作"},{"start":3698.36,"end":3700.36,"text":"納入這個採購的合約"},{"start":3700.36,"end":3701.36,"text":"抵換專案"},{"start":3701.36,"end":3704.36,"text":"然後在國家整個整體推動中的話"},{"start":3704.36,"end":3705.36,"text":"會有很高的戰略價值"},{"start":3705.36,"end":3709.36,"text":"因為這個是不單是帶動國際的國防企業"},{"start":3709.36,"end":3712.36,"text":"一起跟所有大學博士生研究生"},{"start":3712.36,"end":3713.36,"text":"一個教授代理的"},{"start":3713.36,"end":3714.36,"text":"在"},{"start":3715.3,"end":3718.3,"text":"路面的海面的還有空中的這些系統裡面"},{"start":3718.3,"end":3720.3,"text":"你全部所有人都投入的話"},{"start":3720.3,"end":3724.3,"text":"對國家的整個整體運作效益發揮"},{"start":3724.3,"end":3729.3,"text":"還有這個預算的節省都很有很好的這個作為"},{"start":3729.3,"end":3732.3,"text":"就我所知現在已經有很多單位相互的"},{"start":3732.3,"end":3734.3,"text":"政府單位跟學校合作"},{"start":3734.3,"end":3736.3,"text":"或者企業單位跟學校合作等等的"},{"start":3736.3,"end":3737.3,"text":"那這個是很重要的"},{"start":3737.3,"end":3739.3,"text":"那在這裡面的"},{"start":3739.3,"end":3741.3,"text":"最主要是分五大面向"},{"start":3741.3,"end":3744.3,"text":"就是建立的這個技術自主"},{"start":3744.3,"end":3747.3,"text":"第二個是解決產業的人才荒"},{"start":3747.3,"end":3749.3,"text":"可以建構高階研發人才"},{"start":3749.3,"end":3752.3,"text":"再來就是推動次世代的技術突破"},{"start":3752.3,"end":3755.3,"text":"還有建立在地面化的這個測試和驗證"},{"start":3755.3,"end":3759.3,"text":"然後擴大這個經濟效益和在地產業基礎"},{"start":3759.3,"end":3761.3,"text":"那最後我補充一點"},{"start":3761.3,"end":3763.3,"text":"有關測試廠的部分"},{"start":3763.3,"end":3764.3,"text":"大家都做得很好"},{"start":3764.3,"end":3767.3,"text":"但是希望是說能夠做個專一的比較大的"},{"start":3767.3,"end":3769.3,"text":"因為這裡面整個測試廠"},{"start":3769.3,"end":3771.3,"text":"比如說海軍的"},{"start":3771.3,"end":3773.3,"text":"海軍的要發到某個地方"},{"start":3773.3,"end":3775.3,"text":"某個港口"},{"start":3774.93,"end":3776.93,"text":"怎麼樣所有的設施移電"},{"start":3776.93,"end":3777.93,"text":"你都在那邊一起做"},{"start":3777.93,"end":3779.93,"text":"會節省國家很多的空域"},{"start":3779.93,"end":3781.93,"text":"那譬如說當年我在美國"},{"start":3781.93,"end":3782.93,"text":"是為了受訓的時候"},{"start":3782.93,"end":3784.93,"text":"美國空軍的這個測試"},{"start":3784.93,"end":3785.93,"text":"就放到愛德華空軍基地"},{"start":3785.93,"end":3787.93,"text":"所以所有飛機"},{"start":3787.93,"end":3788.93,"text":"美國這麼大"},{"start":3788.93,"end":3789.93,"text":"它通通新的飛機"},{"start":3789.93,"end":3791.93,"text":"或者老的要做新武器裝備"},{"start":3791.93,"end":3793.93,"text":"換裝或怎麼樣"},{"start":3793.93,"end":3795.93,"text":"通通放到愛德華去測試"},{"start":3795.93,"end":3797.93,"text":"所以那時候我在那邊受訓的時候"},{"start":3797.93,"end":3798.93,"text":"可以看到"},{"start":3798.93,"end":3800.93,"text":"它從地面上到太空整個空城"},{"start":3800.93,"end":3803.93,"text":"一萬尺兩萬尺三萬尺四萬尺"},{"start":3803.93,"end":3805.93,"text":"各型武器都在那邊測試"},{"start":3805.93,"end":3807.93,"text":"可以第一個好掌控"},{"start":3807.93,"end":3810.93,"text":"對民航局對港空局來講好管控"},{"start":3810.93,"end":3812.93,"text":"第二個你空域在管制下的話"},{"start":3812.93,"end":3813.93,"text":"對不對很有效果"},{"start":3813.93,"end":3815.93,"text":"安全上可以不要顧慮"},{"start":3815.93,"end":3816.93,"text":"不能說不要顧慮"},{"start":3816.93,"end":3818.93,"text":"顧慮上比較周圍一點"},{"start":3818.93,"end":3820.93,"text":"第三個是所有移電放在那邊"},{"start":3820.93,"end":3821.93,"text":"所以所有相關的測試的話"},{"start":3821.93,"end":3823.93,"text":"它能夠抓到很多的這個"},{"start":3823.93,"end":3825.93,"text":"重要的參數"},{"start":3825.93,"end":3827.93,"text":"對整個來說是很好的幫助"},{"start":3827.93,"end":3828.93,"text":"以上是我的報告"},{"start":3828.93,"end":3829.93,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":3831.26,"end":3833.26,"text":"好謝謝首先發言的第一位"},{"start":3833.26,"end":3835.26,"text":"我們田將軍"},{"start":3835.26,"end":3837.26,"text":"第二位我們有請"},{"start":3837.12,"end":3839.12,"text":"夏光誠夏將軍"},{"start":3840.63,"end":3842.63,"text":"夏光亞夏將軍"},{"start":3842.63,"end":3844.63,"text":"然後因為剛剛我們列席的機關代表"},{"start":3844.63,"end":3846.63,"text":"有台船公司的董事長"},{"start":3846.63,"end":3848.63,"text":"那我們在夏將軍之後"},{"start":3848.63,"end":3851.63,"text":"我們給予台船的口頭說明"},{"start":3851.63,"end":3852.63,"text":"時間五分鐘"},{"start":3852.63,"end":3854.63,"text":"現在請我們夏將軍時間十分鐘"},{"start":3855.88,"end":3856.88,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":3857.28,"end":3859.28,"text":"這個委員"},{"start":3859.8,"end":3861.8,"text":"各位學的先進還有各位"},{"start":3862.67,"end":3864.67,"text":"政府機關的代表"},{"start":3864.67,"end":3865.67,"text":"今天我們針對這個"},{"start":3865.67,"end":3867.67,"text":"如何藉由無人機專法來強化"},{"start":3867.67,"end":3869.67,"text":"國防自主促進國際合作"},{"start":3870.5,"end":3873.5,"text":"發展本土產業這個題目來做公聽"},{"start":3873.5,"end":3875.5,"text":"當然無人機是現在大家非常關切的議題"},{"start":3875.5,"end":3877.5,"text":"也是涉及到國防自主"},{"start":3877.5,"end":3879.5,"text":"還有我們國防的安全"},{"start":3879.5,"end":3880.5,"text":"這個很重要的一個"},{"start":3880.5,"end":3882.5,"text":"大家都非常關切的"},{"start":3882.5,"end":3884.5,"text":"當然這個我今天提出幾點這個報告"},{"start":3884.5,"end":3887.5,"text":"那就因為本人在海軍那個"},{"start":3888.05,"end":3890.05,"text":"在還沒退伍之前"},{"start":3890.05,"end":3892.05,"text":"曾經就在計劃處工作"},{"start":3892.05,"end":3896.05,"text":"負責艦案海軍的艦案造艦等等"},{"start":3896.05,"end":3900.05,"text":"所以這個針對整個國軍艦案的一個流程的關切"},{"start":3900.05,"end":3902.05,"text":"還有我這個一些想法"},{"start":3902.05,"end":3904.05,"text":"來提供一些意見"},{"start":3903.39,"end":3905.39,"text":"第一個"},{"start":3905.39,"end":3907.39,"text":"因為我知道那個顧部長曾經強調一件事情"},{"start":3907.39,"end":3909.39,"text":"他強調無人載具"},{"start":3909.39,"end":3911.39,"text":"不可能單靠一個數量"},{"start":3911.39,"end":3913.39,"text":"就能夠支撐整體防衛作戰"},{"start":3913.39,"end":3915.39,"text":"我相信國防部同仁一定非常認同"},{"start":3915.39,"end":3919.39,"text":"因為國防部我們現在的這個國防戰略"},{"start":3919.39,"end":3921.39,"text":"跟軍事戰略構想"},{"start":3921.39,"end":3923.39,"text":"我們就看114年的國防報告書裡面所訂的"},{"start":3923.39,"end":3925.39,"text":"防衛固守跟重程嚇阻"},{"start":3925.39,"end":3927.39,"text":"這是戰略指導"},{"start":3927.39,"end":3929.39,"text":"那在軍事戰略要發展"},{"start":3929.39,"end":3931.39,"text":"多餘巨子跟任性防衛的作戰構想"},{"start":3931.39,"end":3933.39,"text":"但我們看台灣地狹人仇"},{"start":3933.39,"end":3935.39,"text":"我們都會拿二烏戰爭"},{"start":3935.39,"end":3937.39,"text":"跟美伊戰爭戰場來做比較"},{"start":3937.39,"end":3939.39,"text":"但二烏戰場"},{"start":3939.39,"end":3941.39,"text":"烏克蘭的戰場戰地"},{"start":3941.39,"end":3943.39,"text":"它的土地面積是我們台灣的17倍大"},{"start":3943.39,"end":3945.39,"text":"伊朗更大"},{"start":3945.39,"end":3947.39,"text":"伊朗是45倍大"},{"start":3947.39,"end":3949.39,"text":"他們在這麼大的廣袤的土地上"},{"start":3949.39,"end":3951.39,"text":"實施無人機攻擊的時候"},{"start":3951.39,"end":3953.39,"text":"他們有相對的這個攻擊的優勢"},{"start":3953.39,"end":3955.39,"text":"但在台灣地狹人仇"},{"start":3955.39,"end":3957.39,"text":"如果我們現在按照所構想裡面"},{"start":3957.39,"end":3959.39,"text":"希望在對西岸"},{"start":3959.39,"end":3961.39,"text":"如果我們的威脅地域發動"},{"start":3961.39,"end":3963.39,"text":"發動航渡"},{"start":3963.39,"end":3965.39,"text":"甚至對我們實施兩棲登陸作戰的時候"},{"start":3965.39,"end":3967.39,"text":"但這個先決的前提一定是"},{"start":3971.17,"end":3973.17,"text":"一定是要發動大量的"},{"start":3973.17,"end":3975.17,"text":"要獲得絕對的制空跟制海權"},{"start":3975.17,"end":3977.17,"text":"也就是在這個狀況下"},{"start":3977.17,"end":3979.17,"text":"我們幾乎很多的重要節點"},{"start":3979.17,"end":3981.17,"text":"重要武器裝備可能都受到損傷"},{"start":3981.17,"end":3983.17,"text":"那相對的"},{"start":3984.34,"end":3986.34,"text":"我們的西岸來講一定會"},{"start":3986.34,"end":3988.34,"text":"如果要以密集的無人機"},{"start":3988.34,"end":3990.34,"text":"還有結合我們相對的反艦武器"},{"start":3990.34,"end":3992.34,"text":"來做實施攻擊的話"},{"start":3992.34,"end":3994.34,"text":"大量的武器會集結在西部海域這個地方"},{"start":3994.34,"end":3996.34,"text":"大量的這個頻率"},{"start":3996.34,"end":3998.34,"text":"也會塞爆整個的這個空域"},{"start":3998.34,"end":4000.34,"text":"這些對我們來講都不見得是"},{"start":4000.34,"end":4002.34,"text":"很有利的"},{"start":4002.34,"end":4004.34,"text":"所以在軍戰內發展多於巨子跟韌性防衛的構想的時候"},{"start":4004.34,"end":4006.34,"text":"我們也需要考量"},{"start":4006.34,"end":4008.34,"text":"這個我們台灣的土地的"},{"start":4008.34,"end":4010.34,"text":"一個現實的一個狀況"},{"start":4010.34,"end":4012.34,"text":"那現在我們針對大量的無人機"},{"start":4012.34,"end":4014.34,"text":"我們現在的採購我們現在考量是"},{"start":4014.34,"end":4016.34,"text":"應該不是要不要買的問題"},{"start":4016.34,"end":4018.34,"text":"而是怎麼買的這個狀況"},{"start":4018.34,"end":4020.34,"text":"這個買了之後"},{"start":4020.34,"end":4022.34,"text":"我們台灣要怎麼去"},{"start":4022.34,"end":4024.34,"text":"發展它"},{"start":4024.34,"end":4026.34,"text":"那之後呢不是只買一次買斷"},{"start":4026.34,"end":4028.34,"text":"一次買斷就現在"},{"start":4028.34,"end":4030.34,"text":"購想21萬架還有1300架的無人艇"},{"start":4030.34,"end":4032.34,"text":"這樣買斷之後呢"},{"start":4032.34,"end":4034.34,"text":"那無論這些產業"},{"start":4034.34,"end":4036.34,"text":"他們如何來支撐這個後續的維保"},{"start":4036.34,"end":4038.34,"text":"後續的零附件"},{"start":4038.34,"end":4040.34,"text":"這個東西都是我們要絕對要考量的"},{"start":4040.34,"end":4042.34,"text":"所以在採購上我們也應該考量的是"},{"start":4042.34,"end":4044.34,"text":"一個是"},{"start":4044.34,"end":4046.34,"text":"不但要充實國防還要"},{"start":4046.34,"end":4048.34,"text":"提振產業"},{"start":4048.34,"end":4050.34,"text":"那第二點"},{"start":4049.41,"end":4051.41,"text":"那我們之所以"},{"start":4051.57,"end":4053.57,"text":"政府有提出所謂的緊急的"},{"start":4053.57,"end":4055.57,"text":"這個特別預算的制度"},{"start":4055.57,"end":4057.57,"text":"用特別預算"},{"start":4057.57,"end":4059.57,"text":"用特別預算來編列特別"},{"start":4059.57,"end":4061.57,"text":"條例那也是因為依照"},{"start":4061.57,"end":4063.57,"text":"預算法看預算法第"},{"start":4063.57,"end":4065.57,"text":"83條第一款這個"},{"start":4065.57,"end":4067.57,"text":"報告裡面的各單位都有提到"},{"start":4067.57,"end":4069.57,"text":"這是涉及到國防緊急設施"},{"start":4069.57,"end":4071.57,"text":"或有戰爭"},{"start":4071.57,"end":4073.57,"text":"狀況下編列特別條例"},{"start":4073.57,"end":4075.57,"text":"但是現在我們來看這個東西"},{"start":4075.57,"end":4077.57,"text":"編列特別好列的特別預算"},{"start":4077.57,"end":4079.57,"text":"的來源也是因為"},{"start":4079.57,"end":4081.57,"text":"我們有分別分類"},{"start":4081.57,"end":4083.57,"text":"稅劑的稅餘款"},{"start":4083.57,"end":4085.57,"text":"還有我們的取債"},{"start":4085.57,"end":4087.57,"text":"也就是未來的年輕人要背很多錢"},{"start":4087.57,"end":4089.57,"text":"要背很多錢"},{"start":4089.57,"end":4091.57,"text":"因為這個債不可能一下子消失掉"},{"start":4091.57,"end":4093.57,"text":"你取債的東西不是在分類預算裡面"},{"start":4093.57,"end":4095.57,"text":"就可以消耗完的"},{"start":4094.8,"end":4096.8,"text":"再來一個"},{"start":4096.42,"end":4098.42,"text":"之所以要"},{"start":4097.99,"end":4099.99,"text":"認為是要急迫採購"},{"start":4100.93,"end":4102.93,"text":"急迫採購這個急迫性"},{"start":4102.93,"end":4104.93,"text":"我覺得是可以大家可以"},{"start":4104.93,"end":4106.93,"text":"仔細來去考量的"},{"start":4106.93,"end":4108.93,"text":"我們現在把國外的戰力"},{"start":4108.93,"end":4110.93,"text":"還有兩岸的這個我們的威脅"},{"start":4110.93,"end":4112.93,"text":"員的這個不對稱的這些狀況"},{"start":4112.93,"end":4114.93,"text":"來比擬"},{"start":4114.93,"end":4116.93,"text":"當然"},{"start":4116.06,"end":4118.06,"text":"當然我們一直強調不對稱作戰"},{"start":4118.06,"end":4120.06,"text":"是沒錯不對稱我們跟對岸跟我們的"},{"start":4120.06,"end":4122.06,"text":"威脅員來講比對的話"},{"start":4122.06,"end":4124.06,"text":"絕對是不對稱人口不對稱"},{"start":4124.06,"end":4126.06,"text":"武器裝備不對稱經濟規模"},{"start":4126.06,"end":4128.06,"text":"也不對稱各種的不對稱"},{"start":4128.06,"end":4130.06,"text":"在作戰下來講其實是大對"},{"start":4130.51,"end":4132.51,"text":"我們不能講小啦"},{"start":4132.51,"end":4134.51,"text":"這個對抗來講是絕對的"},{"start":4134.51,"end":4136.51,"text":"這個絕對的不對稱"},{"start":4136.51,"end":4138.51,"text":"所以那是不是真的這麼急迫要用"},{"start":4138.51,"end":4140.51,"text":"採購的方式一次把它買斷"},{"start":4140.51,"end":4142.51,"text":"這些東西來做"},{"start":4142.51,"end":4144.51,"text":"那我們最近發生的各位"},{"start":4144.51,"end":4146.51,"text":"新聞也都看到了"},{"start":4146.51,"end":4148.51,"text":"這些急切採購的狀況下我們也最近有"},{"start":4148.51,"end":4150.51,"text":"三起的這個重大的採購案"},{"start":4150,"end":4152,"text":"不能夠順利的完成"},{"start":4152,"end":4154,"text":"交貨同時因為沒有辦法獲得"},{"start":4154,"end":4156,"text":"輸出採購一個RDS彈藥"},{"start":4156,"end":4158,"text":"一個105榴彈炮"},{"start":4158,"end":4160,"text":"這樣的東西沒有辦法獲得輸出許可"},{"start":4160,"end":4162,"text":"沒辦法獲得輸出許可也甚至要"},{"start":4162,"end":4164,"text":"解約重購可能要解約"},{"start":4164,"end":4166,"text":"重購那解約重購的過程當然我們"},{"start":4166,"end":4168,"text":"也希望"},{"start":4167.03,"end":4169.03,"text":"未來在解約重購的時候"},{"start":4169.46,"end":4171.46,"text":"這個合約絕對不能"},{"start":4171.46,"end":4173.46,"text":"降規"},{"start":4172.85,"end":4174.85,"text":"一定要維持到這個高標"},{"start":4174.85,"end":4176.85,"text":"又經過兩年多的時間三年時間"},{"start":4176.85,"end":4178.85,"text":"這規格應該還要再做"},{"start":4178.85,"end":4180.85,"text":"甚至要提升不能夠因為"},{"start":4180.85,"end":4182.85,"text":"降規來讓這個東西採購可以通過"},{"start":4182.85,"end":4184.85,"text":"來符合這個東西"},{"start":4184.85,"end":4186.85,"text":"那這些這個另外一個就是"},{"start":4186.85,"end":4188.85,"text":"就是那個無人機反制"},{"start":4188.85,"end":4190.85,"text":"無人機反制無人機其實這個系統"},{"start":4190.85,"end":4192.85,"text":"還在研發中對我們來講也是"},{"start":4192.85,"end":4194.85,"text":"spiral development"},{"start":4194.85,"end":4196.85,"text":"還在不斷的螺旋是發展"},{"start":4196.85,"end":4198.85,"text":"這個發展來講現在國內的產能"},{"start":4198.85,"end":4200.85,"text":"是不是能穩定的產出"},{"start":4200.85,"end":4202.85,"text":"這都是我們要極竊的非常去"},{"start":4202.85,"end":4204.85,"text":"要深刻的去了解的"},{"start":4204.85,"end":4206.85,"text":"所以在這個採購來講都是我們要"},{"start":4206.85,"end":4208.85,"text":"要非常認真的去面對"},{"start":4208.85,"end":4210.85,"text":"第三點"},{"start":4210.33,"end":4212.33,"text":"那剛剛前面強調了這個採購"},{"start":4212.33,"end":4214.33,"text":"是不是急迫性那依照"},{"start":4214.33,"end":4216.33,"text":"政府採購法第104條"},{"start":4216.33,"end":4218.33,"text":"剛剛的公共工程委員會裡面也有"},{"start":4218.33,"end":4220.33,"text":"提到了第104條的這個採購法"},{"start":4220.33,"end":4222.33,"text":"這個軍事機關採購"},{"start":4222.33,"end":4224.33,"text":"是有可以急迫性的"},{"start":4224.33,"end":4226.33,"text":"採購不受限於軍事採購"},{"start":4226.33,"end":4228.33,"text":"不限於採購政府採購法"},{"start":4228.33,"end":4230.33,"text":"在這個裡面有提到"},{"start":4230.33,"end":4232.33,"text":"第104條第一點就強調"},{"start":4232.33,"end":4234.33,"text":"國家面臨了戰爭"},{"start":4234.33,"end":4236.33,"text":"或者是戰備動員或者發生戰爭"},{"start":4236.33,"end":4238.33,"text":"第二點是因為"},{"start":4238.33,"end":4240.33,"text":"學校緊急或者是有"},{"start":4240.33,"end":4242.33,"text":"有危及重大戰備任務的時候"},{"start":4242.33,"end":4244.33,"text":"可以不適用第26條"},{"start":4244.33,"end":4246.33,"text":"第28條以及第36條"},{"start":4246.33,"end":4248.33,"text":"各位2628都屬於採購法"},{"start":4248.33,"end":4250.33,"text":"採購裡面的預算的部分"},{"start":4250.33,"end":4252.33,"text":"這個東西還有預算期限的部分"},{"start":4252.33,"end":4254.33,"text":"但是第36條"},{"start":4254.33,"end":4256.33,"text":"這個104條裡面"},{"start":4256.33,"end":4258.33,"text":"這個採購法裡面第36條"},{"start":4258.33,"end":4260.33,"text":"其實也明定了"},{"start":4261.71,"end":4263.71,"text":"明定了投標廠商資格"},{"start":4263.71,"end":4265.71,"text":"各位可以去翻條法條就知道"},{"start":4265.71,"end":4267.71,"text":"明定投資廠商的資格"},{"start":4267.71,"end":4269.71,"text":"還有巨額的採購"},{"start":4269.71,"end":4271.71,"text":"需具備經驗"},{"start":4271.71,"end":4273.71,"text":"時機還有人力"},{"start":4273.71,"end":4275.71,"text":"財力設備這些規定"},{"start":4275.71,"end":4277.71,"text":"都有特別資格"},{"start":4277.71,"end":4279.71,"text":"可由主管機關訂制"},{"start":4279.71,"end":4281.71,"text":"也就是說前面發生的這個問題"},{"start":4281.71,"end":4283.71,"text":"不是說不應該讓這些"},{"start":4283.71,"end":4285.71,"text":"不具這些資格的公司"},{"start":4285.71,"end":4287.71,"text":"就能夠獲得這樣採購"},{"start":4287.71,"end":4289.71,"text":"只因為他說他拿到什麼可以證明"},{"start":4289.71,"end":4291.71,"text":"才保證可以拿到輸出許可"},{"start":4291.71,"end":4293.71,"text":"但事實上結果可能都不是這樣子"},{"start":4293.71,"end":4295.71,"text":"這個主管機關就應該要嚴格的訂定"},{"start":4295.71,"end":4297.71,"text":"這規格都是可以訂定的"},{"start":4297.71,"end":4299.71,"text":"不是說任由廠商投資"},{"start":4299.71,"end":4301.71,"text":"如果你去推掉他"},{"start":4301.71,"end":4303.71,"text":"就因為認為說你不合法"},{"start":4303.71,"end":4305.71,"text":"我們要站在為國防部"},{"start":4305.71,"end":4307.71,"text":"有國防建制"},{"start":4307.71,"end":4309.71,"text":"有力的採購作為"},{"start":4309.71,"end":4311.71,"text":"來做這個事情"},{"start":4311.71,"end":4313.71,"text":"那在第4點"},{"start":4313.47,"end":4315.47,"text":"國軍的建軍其實非常嚴謹"},{"start":4315.47,"end":4317.47,"text":"國軍的建案也非常嚴謹"},{"start":4317.47,"end":4319.47,"text":"有相對的建案規劃、模式模擬、兵力整建"},{"start":4319.47,"end":4321.47,"text":"還有作戰需求"},{"start":4321.47,"end":4323.47,"text":"還有特別是系統分析"},{"start":4323.47,"end":4325.47,"text":"就要把廠商這些資格都完成分析"},{"start":4325.47,"end":4327.47,"text":"最後做成工作計畫"},{"start":4327.47,"end":4329.47,"text":"來完成整個建案"},{"start":4329.47,"end":4331.47,"text":"那當獲得預算後提出這個建案"},{"start":4331.47,"end":4333.47,"text":"獲付預算後才開始進行採購"},{"start":4333.47,"end":4335.47,"text":"進行採購"},{"start":4335.47,"end":4337.47,"text":"那獲得裝備當然會形成戰力"},{"start":4337.47,"end":4339.47,"text":"這就是不要因為這個期限"},{"start":4339.47,"end":4341.47,"text":"沒有獲得"},{"start":4341.47,"end":4343.47,"text":"我們也約重構"},{"start":4343.47,"end":4345.47,"text":"但是造成的是我們戰力的損失"},{"start":4345.75,"end":4347.75,"text":"第5點我要提到就是"},{"start":4348.74,"end":4350.74,"text":"當然現在採購裡面"},{"start":4350.96,"end":4352.96,"text":"行政院的版本裡面提到三項採購"},{"start":4352.96,"end":4354.96,"text":"濱海、徵收型、無人機"},{"start":4354.96,"end":4356.96,"text":"還有供給型、還有小型自殺艇"},{"start":4356.96,"end":4358.96,"text":"那這些採購"},{"start":4358.96,"end":4360.96,"text":"提的都是我們現在國防局應該都很需要的"},{"start":4360.96,"end":4362.96,"text":"但是根據我們現在的題目裡面"},{"start":4362.96,"end":4364.96,"text":"強調要提振國內產業"},{"start":4364.96,"end":4366.96,"text":"但這個裡面條例裡面"},{"start":4366.96,"end":4368.96,"text":"並沒有很明確的提出條例產業"},{"start":4369.34,"end":4371.34,"text":"我們要另外強調就是"},{"start":4371.34,"end":4373.34,"text":"這些裝備"},{"start":4373.34,"end":4375.34,"text":"21萬架無人機"},{"start":4375.34,"end":4377.34,"text":"跟1300艘艇回來以後"},{"start":4377.34,"end":4379.34,"text":"第一個庫除的問題"},{"start":4380.36,"end":4382.36,"text":"庫除的問題各位知道"},{"start":4382.36,"end":4384.36,"text":"我們國軍其實以人來比"},{"start":4384.36,"end":4386.36,"text":"我們現在編制21萬人"},{"start":4386.36,"end":4388.36,"text":"21萬架好像算起來一人就要1架"},{"start":4388.36,"end":4390.36,"text":"但這問題庫除要放在哪裡"},{"start":4390.36,"end":4392.36,"text":"庫除環控都是很重要的問題"},{"start":4392.36,"end":4394.36,"text":"就跟你買電腦回家以後"},{"start":4394.36,"end":4396.36,"text":"你如果買電腦回家擺在家裡面"},{"start":4396.36,"end":4398.36,"text":"擺半年不用它"},{"start":4398.36,"end":4400.36,"text":"以台灣的潮濕情氣候來講"},{"start":4400.36,"end":4402.36,"text":"對裝備會受損"},{"start":4402.36,"end":4404.36,"text":"裝備很容易受損"},{"start":4404.36,"end":4406.36,"text":"也就是買回來以後你沒有暫時的耗損"},{"start":4406.36,"end":4408.36,"text":"沒有立體的戰耗對裝備來講都不是一個很有利的"},{"start":4408.36,"end":4410.36,"text":"最後一個就是針對國防部對於戰備急需"},{"start":4410.36,"end":4412.36,"text":"真的急需作戰"},{"start":4412.36,"end":4414.36,"text":"急迫性都可以調整"},{"start":4414.36,"end":4416.36,"text":"採購順序都可以立即的"},{"start":4416.36,"end":4418.36,"text":"提出這樣的採購"},{"start":4418.36,"end":4420.36,"text":"所以這個來講我們就講這急迫性"},{"start":4420.36,"end":4422.36,"text":"是不是真的有這麼急迫"},{"start":4422.36,"end":4424.36,"text":"所以現在國民黨版"},{"start":4424.36,"end":4426.36,"text":"提出的"},{"start":4426.36,"end":4428.36,"text":"用常規預算來編列"},{"start":4428.36,"end":4430.36,"text":"分聯分批採購"},{"start":4430.36,"end":4432.36,"text":"實際的依照需求提出"},{"start":4432.36,"end":4434.36,"text":"這個採購計劃來編列採購"},{"start":4434.36,"end":4436.36,"text":"同時可以提振我們的產業"},{"start":4436.36,"end":4438.36,"text":"持續的研發確定"},{"start":4438.36,"end":4440.36,"text":"他有這個產製的能力"},{"start":4440.36,"end":4442.36,"text":"我們來提供採購可以買到我們真正國防部"},{"start":4442.36,"end":4444.36,"text":"需要的武器裝備"},{"start":4444.36,"end":4446.36,"text":"同時長期的運作長期的獲得"},{"start":4446.36,"end":4448.36,"text":"尤其是還有後勤維保的問題"},{"start":4448.36,"end":4450.36,"text":"不然的話將來買到就斷層"},{"start":4450.36,"end":4452.36,"text":"一年兩年三年四年五年後"},{"start":4452.36,"end":4454.36,"text":"裝備"},{"start":4453.73,"end":4455.73,"text":"掛在餐就壞掉了"},{"start":4455.73,"end":4457.73,"text":"真的要作戰用才用不到"},{"start":4457.73,"end":4459.73,"text":"這是我以上的報告謝謝"},{"start":4461.44,"end":4463.44,"text":"好謝謝我們夏光亞夏將軍的發言"},{"start":4463.44,"end":4465.44,"text":"那我們現在就依剛剛的宣告"},{"start":4465.44,"end":4467.44,"text":"由台船的董事長"},{"start":4467.44,"end":4469.44,"text":"來進行列席機關代表的說明"},{"start":4469.44,"end":4471.44,"text":"時間五分鐘"},{"start":4474.25,"end":4476.25,"text":"主席各位委員"},{"start":4476.25,"end":4478.25,"text":"各位先進大家好"},{"start":4478.25,"end":4480.25,"text":"在這邊代表台船發表一點意見"},{"start":4480.25,"end":4482.25,"text":"以本公司立場我們當然"},{"start":4482.25,"end":4484.25,"text":"支持正面目前的"},{"start":4484.25,"end":4486.25,"text":"版本因為現在"},{"start":4486.25,"end":4488.25,"text":"無人載具的需求"},{"start":4488.25,"end":4490.25,"text":"如同我們在二戰爭看到的樣子"},{"start":4490.25,"end":4492.25,"text":"他是正在快速發展"},{"start":4492.25,"end":4494.25,"text":"的階段所以從"},{"start":4494.25,"end":4496.25,"text":"使用端實際經驗裡面"},{"start":4496.25,"end":4498.25,"text":"能夠獲得這個將來"},{"start":4498.25,"end":4500.25,"text":"怎麼改進的這個做法"},{"start":4500.25,"end":4502.25,"text":"是一個快速迭代的時代"},{"start":4502.25,"end":4504.25,"text":"因此必須要盡快能夠"},{"start":4504.25,"end":4506.25,"text":"實際投入不管是軍用"},{"start":4506.25,"end":4508.25,"text":"的或者是救災救難用等等"},{"start":4508.25,"end":4510.25,"text":"這些各種用途"},{"start":4510.25,"end":4512.25,"text":"得到經驗以後來讓廠商能夠"},{"start":4512.25,"end":4514.25,"text":"快速的發展"},{"start":4514.25,"end":4516.25,"text":"因為這樣的緣故我們"},{"start":4516.25,"end":4518.25,"text":"認同剛剛前面幾位先進跟將軍"},{"start":4518.25,"end":4520.25,"text":"的說法在我國戰略指導"},{"start":4520.25,"end":4522.25,"text":"之下必須要做到重生"},{"start":4522.25,"end":4524.25,"text":"和煮跟多餘聚集所以雖然"},{"start":4524.25,"end":4526.25,"text":"目前正面版的這三種"},{"start":4526.25,"end":4528.25,"text":"無人載具包括兩型船"},{"start":4528.25,"end":4530.25,"text":"兩型飛機跟一型船"},{"start":4530.25,"end":4532.25,"text":"雖然可能是最迫切的需求"},{"start":4532.25,"end":4534.25,"text":"但是將來應該完整建立"},{"start":4534.25,"end":4536.25,"text":"空中水面水下"},{"start":4536.25,"end":4538.25,"text":"甚至岸基跟陸地上面的"},{"start":4538.25,"end":4540.25,"text":"無人載具航程方面"},{"start":4540.25,"end":4542.25,"text":"也應該包括遠中近不同"},{"start":4542.25,"end":4544.25,"text":"大小的功能上就像我"},{"start":4544.25,"end":4546.25,"text":"剛剛講應該也涵蓋不同種類"},{"start":4546.25,"end":4548.25,"text":"所以這個實際"},{"start":4548.25,"end":4550.25,"text":"需求跟迫切性我想使用單位"},{"start":4550.25,"end":4552.25,"text":"會非常清楚應該讓他們在"},{"start":4552.25,"end":4554.25,"text":"採購的時程種類和數量"},{"start":4554.25,"end":4556.25,"text":"上面能夠有彈性來調整"},{"start":4556.25,"end":4558.25,"text":"所以在這邊建議能夠"},{"start":4558.25,"end":4560.25,"text":"稍微擴大這個範圍"},{"start":4560.25,"end":4562.25,"text":"但是實際上的編列"},{"start":4562.25,"end":4564.25,"text":"尊重需求單位的預算編列"},{"start":4565.46,"end":4567.46,"text":"第二個我們覺得說"},{"start":4567.46,"end":4569.46,"text":"要連結傳統產業"},{"start":4569.46,"end":4571.46,"text":"跟我們先進的這些半導體"},{"start":4571.46,"end":4573.46,"text":"跟IC產業的話"},{"start":4573.46,"end":4575.46,"text":"傳統上面飛機製造廠跟"},{"start":4575.46,"end":4577.46,"text":"造船廠是最適合做為"},{"start":4577.46,"end":4579.46,"text":"產業結合平台的因為本來我們就在做這種"},{"start":4579.46,"end":4581.46,"text":"產業結合的"},{"start":4581.46,"end":4583.46,"text":"這個事情"},{"start":4583.46,"end":4585.46,"text":"跟系統整合的事情"},{"start":4585.46,"end":4587.46,"text":"所以我們可以擴大這個範圍"},{"start":4587.46,"end":4589.46,"text":"包括說傳統的機械"},{"start":4589.46,"end":4591.46,"text":"跟電機的中小企業"},{"start":4591.46,"end":4593.46,"text":"還有一些新創的微型企業"},{"start":4593.46,"end":4595.46,"text":"以及這個半導體IC產業"},{"start":4595.46,"end":4597.46,"text":"乃至於自動軟體產業這個部分"},{"start":4597.46,"end":4599.46,"text":"能夠這樣子進行下去"},{"start":4600.86,"end":4602.86,"text":"第三在這個法規方面"},{"start":4602.86,"end":4604.86,"text":"我們希望說能夠各"},{"start":4604.86,"end":4606.86,"text":"部會跟大院能夠"},{"start":4606.86,"end":4608.86,"text":"快速的提供這個法規"},{"start":4608.86,"end":4610.86,"text":"的修正"},{"start":4610.86,"end":4612.86,"text":"目前已經通過的法規像剛剛交通部"},{"start":4612.86,"end":4614.86,"text":"跟這個"},{"start":4614.86,"end":4616.86,"text":"所"},{"start":4616.86,"end":4618.86,"text":"還有相關部會"},{"start":4618.86,"end":4620.86,"text":"所報告的"},{"start":4620.86,"end":4622.86,"text":"其實還有些不足的地方"},{"start":4622.86,"end":4624.86,"text":"譬如說在這個目前"},{"start":4624.86,"end":4626.86,"text":"水面水下無人載具的"},{"start":4626.86,"end":4628.86,"text":"特定測試水域安全管理規範裡面"},{"start":4628.86,"end":4630.86,"text":"可能不包括軍事研發使用"},{"start":4630.86,"end":4632.86,"text":"然後提出來的"},{"start":4632.86,"end":4634.86,"text":"使用的場域"},{"start":4634.86,"end":4636.86,"text":"可能比較局限一點"},{"start":4636.86,"end":4638.86,"text":"那在深度跟廣度"},{"start":4638.86,"end":4640.86,"text":"上面可能不夠特別是現在"},{"start":4640.86,"end":4642.86,"text":"如果要含群控功能的話"},{"start":4642.86,"end":4644.86,"text":"所需要的那個空域"},{"start":4644.86,"end":4646.86,"text":"或水域的面積會比較大"},{"start":4646.86,"end":4648.86,"text":"如果要做水下載具的測試的話"},{"start":4648.86,"end":4650.86,"text":"深度也需要足夠"},{"start":4650.86,"end":4652.86,"text":"另外"},{"start":4652.05,"end":4654.05,"text":"除了這種封閉水域"},{"start":4654.05,"end":4656.05,"text":"內陸或者是這個港灣的"},{"start":4656.05,"end":4658.05,"text":"封閉水域之外"},{"start":4658.05,"end":4660.05,"text":"如果我們要帶出港"},{"start":4660.05,"end":4662.05,"text":"出去航行測試的話"},{"start":4662.05,"end":4664.05,"text":"目前港務局的法規可能沒有"},{"start":4664.05,"end":4666.05,"text":"辦法讓我們無人載具用遙控的方式"},{"start":4666.05,"end":4668.05,"text":"帶出去所以必須要"},{"start":4668.05,"end":4670.05,"text":"用拖帶或旁隙的方式才能夠帶出去"},{"start":4670.05,"end":4672.05,"text":"那這個才會是"},{"start":4672.05,"end":4674.05,"text":"像我們上之前本公司"},{"start":4674.05,"end":4676.05,"text":"那個分界摩尾漁號在"},{"start":4676.05,"end":4678.05,"text":"出海的時候會被大家看到說裡面"},{"start":4678.05,"end":4680.05,"text":"有人那是因為必須要符合"},{"start":4680.05,"end":4682.05,"text":"我們法規的關係"},{"start":4682.05,"end":4684.05,"text":"另外就是說"},{"start":4684.05,"end":4686.05,"text":"除了這個"},{"start":4686.05,"end":4688.05,"text":"封閉水域之外我們也需要近岸的海域的測試"},{"start":4688.05,"end":4690.05,"text":"跟更大的實際海域的測試"},{"start":4690.05,"end":4692.05,"text":"所以這個相關的"},{"start":4692.05,"end":4694.05,"text":"法規跟預定的"},{"start":4694.05,"end":4696.05,"text":"場域可能也是"},{"start":4696.05,"end":4698.05,"text":"或是需要大家一起來"},{"start":4698.05,"end":4700.05,"text":"規劃建置的"},{"start":4700.05,"end":4702.05,"text":"最後呢"},{"start":4701.41,"end":4703.41,"text":"文載具的目前最重要的核心能力"},{"start":4703.41,"end":4705.41,"text":"應該是在"},{"start":4705.41,"end":4707.41,"text":"遙導控、自主航行、AI自動辨識"},{"start":4707.41,"end":4709.41,"text":"然後抗干擾跟任務管理"},{"start":4709.41,"end":4711.41,"text":"系統等等這些方面"},{"start":4711.41,"end":4713.41,"text":"那其實這方面不太容易計價"},{"start":4713.41,"end":4715.41,"text":"因為它的發展跟它的"},{"start":4715.41,"end":4717.41,"text":"性能功能的"},{"start":4717.41,"end":4719.41,"text":"好壞差非常的多"},{"start":4719.41,"end":4721.41,"text":"但是這是非常重要的核心能力"},{"start":4721.41,"end":4723.41,"text":"也是將來升級的發展方向"},{"start":4723.41,"end":4725.41,"text":"我們希望能夠採用開放或半開放式的"},{"start":4725.41,"end":4727.41,"text":"架構"},{"start":4727.41,"end":4729.41,"text":"促進剛剛前面先進談到的產學的合作"},{"start":4729.41,"end":4731.41,"text":"以及我們本土廠商"},{"start":4731.41,"end":4733.41,"text":"跟學界的努力能夠"},{"start":4733.41,"end":4735.41,"text":"快速的融入進去"},{"start":4735.41,"end":4737.41,"text":"跟國外比較成熟的先進廠商"},{"start":4737.41,"end":4739.41,"text":"已經開發的功能一起合作"},{"start":4739.41,"end":4741.41,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":4742.41,"end":4744.41,"text":"好謝謝我們臺船的陳董事長"},{"start":4744.41,"end":4746.41,"text":"那由於在場委員"},{"start":4746.41,"end":4748.41,"text":"目前我們就請我們洪昭偉"},{"start":4748.41,"end":4750.41,"text":"來代理我來發言謝謝"},{"start":4758.51,"end":4760.51,"text":"好我們現在請這個中嘉賓委員發言"},{"start":4763.79,"end":4765.79,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4765.79,"end":4767.79,"text":"今天的公聽會剛剛已經"},{"start":4767.79,"end":4769.79,"text":"聽了相關的主管機關"},{"start":4769.79,"end":4771.79,"text":"列席代表的說明"},{"start":4771.79,"end":4773.79,"text":"也聽到了"},{"start":4773.79,"end":4775.79,"text":"15位學者專家當中前兩位"},{"start":4775.79,"end":4777.79,"text":"剛好都是有軍方背景代表"},{"start":4777.79,"end":4779.79,"text":"的空軍跟海軍的發言"},{"start":4779.79,"end":4781.79,"text":"那很有意思的是"},{"start":4781.79,"end":4783.79,"text":"在這一次之前"},{"start":4783.4,"end":4785.4,"text":"立法院三個政黨黨團"},{"start":4785.4,"end":4787.4,"text":"都推出了自己的版本"},{"start":4787.4,"end":4789.4,"text":"那其中比較有爭議的"},{"start":4789.4,"end":4791.4,"text":"就是要交付給國防委員來主審"},{"start":4791.4,"end":4793.4,"text":"但是最後呢"},{"start":4793.4,"end":4795.4,"text":"依在野黨的多數交付給"},{"start":4795.4,"end":4797.4,"text":"經濟委員來主審"},{"start":4797.4,"end":4799.4,"text":"但是很有趣的"},{"start":4799.4,"end":4801.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text":"有給的更多嗎"},{"start":5014.06,"end":5016.06,"text":"哪一個父母你告訴你孩子這樣的話"},{"start":5016.06,"end":5018.06,"text":"一定是被他笑死"},{"start":5018.06,"end":5020.06,"text":"往下看"},{"start":5019.04,"end":5021.04,"text":"所以說國民黨版的年度預算"},{"start":5021.04,"end":5023.04,"text":"看得到吃不到"},{"start":5023.04,"end":5025.04,"text":"我們看到最近的媒體報導"},{"start":5025.04,"end":5027.04,"text":"產業說什麼需要可預期的國家資源"},{"start":5028.88,"end":5030.88,"text":"很多產業在初期發展的時候"},{"start":5030.88,"end":5032.88,"text":"為什麼軍工產業"},{"start":5033.32,"end":5035.32,"text":"因為民間多數不會採購"},{"start":5035.32,"end":5037.32,"text":"一定是靠國家的採購來支持"},{"start":5038.86,"end":5040.86,"text":"市長目前我們看到文仔劇的最大應用是在哪裡"},{"start":5042.31,"end":5044.31,"text":"是在噴農藥嗎"},{"start":5043.78,"end":5045.78,"text":"是在空拍嗎"},{"start":5045.5,"end":5047.5,"text":"是在海上救援嗎"},{"start":5047.16,"end":5049.16,"text":"錯"},{"start":5048.25,"end":5050.25,"text":"現在台灣跟世界各地大家看到無人機最大應用"},{"start":5050.25,"end":5052.25,"text":"是在二戰爭的戰場上"},{"start":5052.25,"end":5058.25,"text":"看到了無人機大量的減少首方的人員傷亡"},{"start":5058.87,"end":5064.87,"text":"他用不對稱的戰役方式造成了給侵略者非常大的一個制衡"},{"start":5065.82,"end":5067.82,"text":"我們看到烏克蘭的無人機飛躍一兩千公里"},{"start":5067.82,"end":5069.82,"text":"去轟炸俄羅斯"},{"start":5069.82,"end":5071.82,"text":"包括西伯利亞的煉油廠"},{"start":5072.22,"end":5074.22,"text":"告訴侵略者"},{"start":5073.99,"end":5075.99,"text":"不能憑藉你的人多"},{"start":5075.99,"end":5077.99,"text":"不能憑藉你的炮火力"},{"start":5077.99,"end":5079.99,"text":"犀利你就可以任意的去欺負鄰居"},{"start":5080.96,"end":5082.96,"text":"台灣跟其他民主國家"},{"start":5082.96,"end":5084.96,"text":"需要這樣的方式來告訴全世界"},{"start":5084.96,"end":5086.96,"text":"這些野心的侵略國家"},{"start":5086.96,"end":5088.96,"text":"不可輕舉妄動"},{"start":5090.19,"end":5092.19,"text":"結果我們看到國民黨的預算"},{"start":5093.21,"end":5095.21,"text":"年年拖啊"},{"start":5094.86,"end":5096.86,"text":"去年也拖"},{"start":5096.86,"end":5098.86,"text":"今年也拖"},{"start":5097.82,"end":5101.82,"text":"我們行政院在依憲法有法定預算的編制權"},{"start":5102.34,"end":5104.34,"text":"立法院當然可以審查"},{"start":5104.34,"end":5106.34,"text":"認為太多當然可以砍"},{"start":5106.34,"end":5110.34,"text":"但是沒有荒唐到說今年的預算到現在快8月了"},{"start":5110.34,"end":5112.34,"text":"立法院還沒有完成審查"},{"start":5113.34,"end":5115.34,"text":"這是破天荒的憲政恥辱"},{"start":5116.73,"end":5118.73,"text":"立法院的多數應該要來面對"},{"start":5118.73,"end":5120.73,"text":"往下看"},{"start":5119.87,"end":5121.87,"text":"最後我們再來看"},{"start":5121.31,"end":5123.31,"text":"好所以兩手策略先砍再補償"},{"start":5124.85,"end":5126.85,"text":"對不起上一頁第五頁"},{"start":5127.01,"end":5129.01,"text":"所以國民黨"},{"start":5129.01,"end":5131.01,"text":"對不起再往上跳"},{"start":5131.01,"end":5133.01,"text":"我們看到了這是國民黨目前提出來的"},{"start":5133.01,"end":5135.01,"text":"2400億6年的年度預算"},{"start":5135.01,"end":5137.01,"text":"往下看"},{"start":5137.01,"end":5139.01,"text":"但是現在就在前天剛說了"},{"start":5139.01,"end":5141.01,"text":"442億無人載具的統籌型計畫"},{"start":5146.2,"end":5148.2,"text":"分在未來的6年要執行的呢"},{"start":5148.2,"end":5150.2,"text":"國民黨黨團已經先放話"},{"start":5150.2,"end":5152.2,"text":"說要通通刪掉"},{"start":5153.08,"end":5155.08,"text":"通通刪掉"},{"start":5155.08,"end":5157.08,"text":"那結果呢"},{"start":5157.08,"end":5159.08,"text":"先刪1.25兆當中的4700億"},{"start":5159.08,"end":5161.08,"text":"在喊停6年的無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫"},{"start":5161.08,"end":5163.08,"text":"立法院不是用預算權"},{"start":5163.08,"end":5165.08,"text":"在預算審查的時候進行刪除"},{"start":5165.08,"end":5167.08,"text":"而是透過憲政機關"},{"start":5167.08,"end":5169.08,"text":"目前"},{"start":5169.08,"end":5171.08,"text":"他對立法院有載製的多數"},{"start":5171.08,"end":5173.08,"text":"他先放話"},{"start":5175.22,"end":5177.22,"text":"恐嚇行政權"},{"start":5176.88,"end":5178.88,"text":"這不是憲政機關應有的作為"},{"start":5178.88,"end":5180.88,"text":"往下看"},{"start":5179.88,"end":5181.88,"text":"所以在這之後"},{"start":5182.02,"end":5184.02,"text":"社會集體反彈啦"},{"start":5184.02,"end":5186.02,"text":"業者反彈啦"},{"start":5186.02,"end":5188.02,"text":"民眾很疑惑啊"},{"start":5188.02,"end":5190.02,"text":"難道國民黨是希望年輕人上戰場"},{"start":5190.02,"end":5192.02,"text":"還是無人機上戰場"},{"start":5192.02,"end":5194.02,"text":"結果就有賴斯堡委員得到40張的連署"},{"start":5194.02,"end":5196.02,"text":"所以我們合理的認為"},{"start":5196.02,"end":5198.02,"text":"賴斯堡委員的提案"},{"start":5198.02,"end":5200.02,"text":"是代表著國民黨的留一手"},{"start":5199.98,"end":5201.98,"text":"他說我砍了你4700億"},{"start":5201.98,"end":5203.98,"text":"我又否定了你的440折億"},{"start":5203.98,"end":5205.98,"text":"我會補給你500億"},{"start":5206.96,"end":5208.96,"text":"什麼方式?"},{"start":5208.96,"end":5210.96,"text":"特別預算"},{"start":5210.19,"end":5212.19,"text":"國民黨不是口口聲聲說"},{"start":5212.19,"end":5214.19,"text":"在議長說特別預算不需要嗎?"},{"start":5214.1,"end":5216.1,"text":"是債留子孫嗎?"},{"start":5216.1,"end":5218.1,"text":"現在他也說了500億可以啊"},{"start":5218.1,"end":5220.1,"text":"2000億是債留子孫"},{"start":5220.1,"end":5222.1,"text":"500億是什麼?"},{"start":5222.1,"end":5224.1,"text":"500億是給你棒棒糖安慰你啊"},{"start":5224.1,"end":5226.1,"text":"所以我們看到了"},{"start":5226.1,"end":5228.1,"text":"先砍國防部2100億"},{"start":5228.1,"end":5230.1,"text":"又給經濟部2400億"},{"start":5230.1,"end":5232.1,"text":"然後呢現在統三440折億"},{"start":5232.1,"end":5234.1,"text":"現在又提案要給500億"},{"start":5230.99,"end":5232.99,"text":"剛剛有發言的專家說"},{"start":5232.99,"end":5234.99,"text":"我們看到的是行政院版"},{"start":5234.99,"end":5236.99,"text":"他可能沒有看到有賴斯堡的版本"},{"start":5238.45,"end":5240.45,"text":"賴斯堡的版本連署的都是國民黨的委員"},{"start":5240.45,"end":5242.45,"text":"往下看"},{"start":5241.98,"end":5243.98,"text":"所以我們很清楚的"},{"start":5243.98,"end":5245.98,"text":"要告訴我們的社會大眾"},{"start":5246.47,"end":5248.47,"text":"其實目前"},{"start":5249.34,"end":5251.34,"text":"我們是支持行政院版的自主"},{"start":5251.34,"end":5253.34,"text":"無人載具採購特別條例"},{"start":5253.34,"end":5255.34,"text":"以特別預算的方式編列後事國防"},{"start":5255.34,"end":5257.34,"text":"我們對於在野黨兩手策略"},{"start":5257.34,"end":5259.34,"text":"年度預算"},{"start":5259.34,"end":5261.34,"text":"化蛇添足看到到吃不到"},{"start":5261.34,"end":5263.34,"text":"先砍再補杯水車薪"},{"start":5263.34,"end":5265.34,"text":"唐薩外界的質疑"},{"start":5264.91,"end":5266.91,"text":"接下來呢我要說明的"},{"start":5266.91,"end":5268.91,"text":"在昨天"},{"start":5268.27,"end":5270.27,"text":"已經通過院會"},{"start":5270.27,"end":5272.27,"text":"交付本委員審查的四個版本當中"},{"start":5272.27,"end":5274.27,"text":"包括本席的版本"},{"start":5274.27,"end":5276.27,"text":"其實當中"},{"start":5276.27,"end":5278.27,"text":"除了"},{"start":5278.01,"end":5280.01,"text":"也是參照行政院"},{"start":5280.01,"end":5282.01,"text":"2100億的特別預算額度之外"},{"start":5282.01,"end":5284.01,"text":"這裡呢回應剛剛"},{"start":5284.01,"end":5286.01,"text":"有學者專家提出來的"},{"start":5286.01,"end":5288.01,"text":"有沒有包含產業發展的部分"},{"start":5288.01,"end":5290.01,"text":"有的"},{"start":5289.15,"end":5291.15,"text":"有的"},{"start":5290.23,"end":5292.23,"text":"我們的版本有包含產業發展的部分"},{"start":5292.23,"end":5294.23,"text":"那麼關於到"},{"start":5294.23,"end":5296.23,"text":"這裡面有一些"},{"start":5296.23,"end":5298.23,"text":"有提到說如果現在國防"},{"start":5298.23,"end":5300.23,"text":"採購有弊案"},{"start":5300.23,"end":5302.23,"text":"有廠商不合資格"},{"start":5303.49,"end":5305.49,"text":"一條約不能履約"},{"start":5305.49,"end":5307.49,"text":"那我們很好奇啊"},{"start":5307.27,"end":5309.27,"text":"最近媒體報導上看到的"},{"start":5309.27,"end":5311.27,"text":"什麼馬桶製造商"},{"start":5311.27,"end":5313.27,"text":"可以來賣炸藥啦"},{"start":5313.27,"end":5315.27,"text":"這樣的一個形容充斥著在野黨的言論"},{"start":5315.27,"end":5317.27,"text":"但是我們看到背後是什麼"},{"start":5317.27,"end":5319.27,"text":"背後的是假質詢之明"},{"start":5319.27,"end":5321.27,"text":"行破壞之實"},{"start":5321.27,"end":5323.27,"text":"台灣的國防採購"},{"start":5323.27,"end":5325.27,"text":"非常的辛苦"},{"start":5325.27,"end":5327.27,"text":"在國際市場上要突破中共的打壓"},{"start":5327.27,"end":5329.27,"text":"取得這些供應商"},{"start":5329.27,"end":5331.27,"text":"他們難得的供應來源"},{"start":5331.27,"end":5333.27,"text":"往往要透過不同的管道"},{"start":5333.75,"end":5335.75,"text":"更何況如果用這種廠商資格來"},{"start":5336.6,"end":5338.6,"text":"質疑採購的正當性"},{"start":5338.6,"end":5340.6,"text":"跟他的供應的能力的話"},{"start":5340.65,"end":5342.65,"text":"現在我們看到的無人載具的產業"},{"start":5342.65,"end":5344.65,"text":"哪一個是"},{"start":5344.65,"end":5346.65,"text":"向美國傳統的軍工大廠"},{"start":5346.65,"end":5348.65,"text":"所提供的都是新創公司"},{"start":5348.65,"end":5350.65,"text":"而且迭代更新"},{"start":5350.65,"end":5352.65,"text":"提到反制無人機"},{"start":5352.65,"end":5354.65,"text":"其實這是台灣更重要的事情"},{"start":5354.65,"end":5356.65,"text":"反制無人機這種當然還在發展中"},{"start":5356.65,"end":5358.65,"text":"就是因為在發展中"},{"start":5358.65,"end":5360.65,"text":"能夠先取得的國家才能夠"},{"start":5360.65,"end":5362.65,"text":"在未來面對對方用無人機"},{"start":5362.65,"end":5364.65,"text":"來攻擊我們才有"},{"start":5364.65,"end":5366.65,"text":"防禦上的這樣的可行性"},{"start":5367.7,"end":5369.7,"text":"所以現在的軍工產業"},{"start":5369.7,"end":5371.7,"text":"國防採購不是在產購"},{"start":5371.7,"end":5373.7,"text":"成熟的"},{"start":5373.76,"end":5375.76,"text":"高大富的傳統軍備"},{"start":5375.76,"end":5377.76,"text":"我們要投資未來型的"},{"start":5377.76,"end":5379.76,"text":"防衛性的武器"},{"start":5379.76,"end":5381.76,"text":"就是無人載具"},{"start":5381.76,"end":5383.76,"text":"希望我們在野黨的朋友"},{"start":5383.76,"end":5385.76,"text":"能夠秉持國家利益優先"},{"start":5385.76,"end":5387.76,"text":"能夠來支持行政院版的"},{"start":5387.76,"end":5389.76,"text":"2100億特別預算"},{"start":5389.76,"end":5391.76,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5392.93,"end":5394.93,"text":"好謝謝中教兵委員"},{"start":5402.22,"end":5404.22,"text":"好接下來我們請第三位"},{"start":5404.33,"end":5406.33,"text":"第四位資策會的"},{"start":5406.33,"end":5408.33,"text":"洪村輝洪所長"},{"start":5423.39,"end":5425.39,"text":"主席各位委員還有"},{"start":5425.39,"end":5427.39,"text":"各位先進以及各位政府機關的"},{"start":5427.39,"end":5429.39,"text":"首長代表"},{"start":5429.39,"end":5431.39,"text":"大家早安"},{"start":5431.39,"end":5433.39,"text":"以下是資訊工業"},{"start":5433.39,"end":5435.39,"text":"測驚會產業情報研究所"},{"start":5435.39,"end":5437.39,"text":"洪村輝在這邊"},{"start":5437.39,"end":5439.39,"text":"我們從整個產業供應鏈"},{"start":5439.39,"end":5441.39,"text":"的發展那特別因為我們長時間"},{"start":5441.39,"end":5443.39,"text":"觀察自通訊"},{"start":5443.39,"end":5445.39,"text":"上下游的產業"},{"start":5445.39,"end":5447.39,"text":"提供我們對於台灣無人機"},{"start":5447.39,"end":5449.39,"text":"產業技術跟相關供應"},{"start":5449.39,"end":5451.39,"text":"鏈發展的一些觀察"},{"start":5451.39,"end":5453.39,"text":"提供給大家來參考"},{"start":5453.39,"end":5455.39,"text":"首先我想先針對"},{"start":5455.39,"end":5457.39,"text":"我們所看到的幾個重點"},{"start":5457.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,{"start":5657.11,"end":5659.11,"text":"具備任性的導航在這個複雜"},{"start":5659.11,"end":5661.11,"text":"或有干擾的環境當中"},{"start":5661.11,"end":5663.11,"text":"仍然能夠進行任性的導航"},{"start":5663.11,"end":5665.11,"text":"那甚至呢有相關的"},{"start":5665.11,"end":5667.11,"text":"控制的軟體高階的"},{"start":5667.11,"end":5669.11,"text":"籌載都是我們認為可以進一步"},{"start":5669.11,"end":5671.11,"text":"提升的地方"},{"start":5671.43,"end":5673.43,"text":"另一個最後一點第五點"},{"start":5673.43,"end":5675.43,"text":"我們可以看到目前產業的發展"},{"start":5675.43,"end":5677.43,"text":"那麼仍然是以"},{"start":5677.43,"end":5679.43,"text":"中小型態的企業為主"},{"start":5679.43,"end":5681.43,"text":"那當然我們的"},{"start":5681.43,"end":5683.43,"text":"中型或是小微"},{"start":5683.43,"end":5685.43,"text":"企業具有少量多樣"},{"start":5685.43,"end":5687.43,"text":"過速客製化的優勢"},{"start":5687.43,"end":5689.43,"text":"但是如果供應鏈過度分散"},{"start":5689.43,"end":5691.43,"text":"那這裡面量產的"},{"start":5691.43,"end":5693.43,"text":"一致性可耗性"},{"start":5693.43,"end":5695.43,"text":"可耗度的資料跟產品"},{"start":5695.43,"end":5697.43,"text":"全生命週期的維修保養能力"},{"start":5697.43,"end":5699.43,"text":"那這個地方就需要"},{"start":5699.43,"end":5701.43,"text":"有進一步建立的這個需要"},{"start":5701.43,"end":5703.43,"text":"那所以我想"},{"start":5703.43,"end":5705.43,"text":"這是五點我們所做的一個中整"},{"start":5705.43,"end":5707.43,"text":"那如果我們從整體市場來看"},{"start":5707.43,"end":5709.43,"text":"我想大家都應該知道"},{"start":5709.43,"end":5711.43,"text":"其實很多的報告也提到"},{"start":5711.43,"end":5713.43,"text":"在過去這段時間"},{"start":5713.43,"end":5715.43,"text":"二戰爭使得整個無人機"},{"start":5715.43,"end":5717.43,"text":"從輔助的工具"},{"start":5717.43,"end":5719.43,"text":"已經變成是核心"},{"start":5719.43,"end":5721.43,"text":"那各個國家其實也把它"},{"start":5721.43,"end":5723.43,"text":"當成是策略型的產業"},{"start":5723.43,"end":5725.43,"text":"投入在軍用的研發跟採購"},{"start":5725.43,"end":5727.43,"text":"那毫無疑問"},{"start":5727.43,"end":5729.43,"text":"目前全球無人機的市場規模當中"},{"start":5729.43,"end":5731.43,"text":"超過一半"},{"start":5731.43,"end":5733.43,"text":"那如果以直的角度來看"},{"start":5733.43,"end":5735.43,"text":"超過一半是來自於軍用的無人機"},{"start":5735.43,"end":5737.43,"text":"可是進一步我們也發現"},{"start":5737.43,"end":5739.43,"text":"相關的技術在擴散當中"},{"start":5739.43,"end":5741.43,"text":"從軍用的部分"},{"start":5741.43,"end":5743.43,"text":"開始擴散到農業用"},{"start":5743.43,"end":5745.43,"text":"工業用運輸用"},{"start":5745.43,"end":5747.43,"text":"關鍵幾種設施相關的檢測"},{"start":5747.43,"end":5749.43,"text":"甚至其他各式各樣的產經"},{"start":5749.43,"end":5751.43,"text":"所以場景"},{"start":5751.43,"end":5753.43,"text":"所以這種垂直產業應用的深化"},{"start":5753.43,"end":5755.43,"text":"我們認為這也是"},{"start":5755.43,"end":5757.43,"text":"我們國內的業者"},{"start":5757.43,"end":5759.43,"text":"國內的產業在未來"},{"start":5759.43,"end":5761.43,"text":"可以進一步思考的地方"},{"start":5761.43,"end":5763.43,"text":"那當然所以這邊"},{"start":5763.43,"end":5765.43,"text":"我們也知道"},{"start":5765.43,"end":5767.43,"text":"在國際上"},{"start":5767.43,"end":5769.43,"text":"在消費型用的無人機"},{"start":5769.43,"end":5771.43,"text":"那很明顯"},{"start":5771.43,"end":5773.43,"text":"那當然是大陸的業者"},{"start":5773.43,"end":5775.43,"text":"大疆是占有"},{"start":5775.43,"end":5777.43,"text":"相當高的市場優勢"},{"start":5777.43,"end":5779.43,"text":"所以我們也不建議"},{"start":5779.43,"end":5781.43,"text":"其實我們在這個地方"},{"start":5781.43,"end":5783.43,"text":"就直接在一般的消費型的"},{"start":5783.43,"end":5785.43,"text":"市場跟它進行正面的競爭"},{"start":5785.43,"end":5787.43,"text":"所以以台灣的"},{"start":5787.43,"end":5789.43,"text":"產業切入的角度"},{"start":5789.43,"end":5791.43,"text":"以我們產業分析跟觀察的"},{"start":5791.43,"end":5793.43,"text":"角度來看"},{"start":5793.43,"end":5795.43,"text":"可以從國防的商規"},{"start":5795.43,"end":5797.43,"text":"剛剛提到的公共安全"},{"start":5797.43,"end":5799.43,"text":"巡檢、偵搜、反制"},{"start":5799.43,"end":5801.43,"text":"以及強化我們台灣在可信任"},{"start":5801.43,"end":5803.43,"text":"供應鏈這些的差異化"},{"start":5803.43,"end":5805.43,"text":"來著手"},{"start":5805.43,"end":5807.43,"text":"那我們也確實看到"},{"start":5807.43,"end":5809.43,"text":"行政院裡面有提到"},{"start":5809.43,"end":5811.43,"text":"包括三金二軟這些的關鍵技術"},{"start":5811.43,"end":5813.43,"text":"剛剛我們也提到"},{"start":5813.43,"end":5815.43,"text":"我們可以持續強化的飛行控制"},{"start":5815.43,"end":5817.43,"text":"通訊、衛星定位這些的"},{"start":5817.43,"end":5819.43,"text":"晶片模組"},{"start":5819.43,"end":5821.43,"text":"以及關鍵的軟體"},{"start":5821.43,"end":5823.43,"text":"包括飛行的控制跟地面控制等等"},{"start":5823.43,"end":5825.43,"text":"所以從整個供應鏈來看"},{"start":5825.43,"end":5827.43,"text":"我們認為台灣的優勢"},{"start":5827.43,"end":5829.43,"text":"不在於一個單一整機的品牌"},{"start":5829.43,"end":5831.43,"text":"當然希望未來"},{"start":5831.43,"end":5833.43,"text":"可以逐漸的建立"},{"start":5833.43,"end":5835.43,"text":"而是我們有很強大的ICT"},{"start":5835.43,"end":5837.43,"text":"工業電腦、通訊模組"},{"start":5837.43,"end":5839.43,"text":"光電影像、電池"},{"start":5839.43,"end":5841.43,"text":"產卡系統整合"},{"start":5841.43,"end":5843.43,"text":"更重要的是可信賴以及"},{"start":5843.43,"end":5845.43,"text":"快速客製化的供應產業鏈"},{"start":5845.43,"end":5847.43,"text":"所以我們可以看見"},{"start":5847.43,"end":5849.43,"text":"台灣的產業從"},{"start":5849.43,"end":5851.43,"text":"元件模組到整機"},{"start":5851.43,"end":5853.43,"text":"說實話我們的觀察"},{"start":5853.43,"end":5855.43,"text":"基本上都有一定的供應能力"},{"start":5855.43,"end":5857.43,"text":"也就是說我們要做出一台"},{"start":5857.43,"end":5859.43,"text":"國產的無人機"},{"start":5859.43,"end":5861.43,"text":"相對不是問題"},{"start":5861.43,"end":5863.43,"text":"但是問題是"},{"start":5863.43,"end":5865.43,"text":"當我們進到更高階的產品"},{"start":5865.43,"end":5867.43,"text":"剛剛提到比如說在"},{"start":5867.43,"end":5869.43,"text":"戰術任性軍用商規"},{"start":5869.43,"end":5871.43,"text":"或是長航時高筹載的航空"},{"start":5871.43,"end":5873.43,"text":"所需要的這些無人機產品的時候"},{"start":5873.43,"end":5875.43,"text":"那它需要的"},{"start":5875.43,"end":5877.43,"text":"自主飛行能力、整合人工智慧"},{"start":5877.43,"end":5879.43,"text":"要高強度"},{"start":5879.43,"end":5881.43,"text":"長航行這些基礎"},{"start":5881.43,"end":5883.43,"text":"那我們認為台灣的供應鏈"},{"start":5883.43,"end":5885.43,"text":"台灣的模組能力"},{"start":5885.43,"end":5887.43,"text":"仍然可以持續的提升"},{"start":5887.43,"end":5889.43,"text":"正如前面所提到的"},{"start":5889.43,"end":5891.43,"text":"無人機在未來的運作環境"},{"start":5891.43,"end":5893.43,"text":"可能不比我們的"},{"start":5893.43,"end":5895.43,"text":"筆電、平板或是"},{"start":5895.43,"end":5897.43,"text":"手機它會處在一個"},{"start":5897.43,"end":5899.43,"text":"許多電子干擾"},{"start":5899.43,"end":5901.43,"text":"群機協作"},{"start":5901.43,"end":5903.43,"text":"技術難度"},{"start":5903.43,"end":5905.43,"text":"環境上的噪音都會很多"},{"start":5905.43,"end":5907.43,"text":"技術難度會高於"},{"start":5907.43,"end":5909.43,"text":"不同的商用機種"},{"start":5909.43,"end":5911.43,"text":"所以我們看到"},{"start":5911.43,"end":5913.43,"text":"台灣已經做得出整機"},{"start":5913.43,"end":5915.43,"text":"但是未來我們可不可以"},{"start":5915.43,"end":5917.43,"text":"進一步的強化我們的技術能力"},{"start":5917.43,"end":5919.43,"text":"在高干擾環境"},{"start":5919.43,"end":5921.43,"text":"有高度環境"},{"start":5921.43,"end":5923.43,"text":"威脅的場景之下"},{"start":5923.43,"end":5925.43,"text":"當然可以完成它的任務"},{"start":5925.43,"end":5927.43,"text":"所以在最後"},{"start":5927.43,"end":5929.43,"text":"我們看到的幾個重要的"},{"start":5929.43,"end":5931.43,"text":"相關的一些缺口"},{"start":5931.43,"end":5933.43,"text":"那我們提出來給大家參考"},{"start":5933.43,"end":5935.43,"text":"或許在我們"},{"start":5935.43,"end":5937.43,"text":"相關的團隊"},{"start":5937.43,"end":5939.43,"text":"或業者在發展的時候"},{"start":5939.43,"end":5941.43,"text":"可以進一步思考的"},{"start":5941.43,"end":5943.43,"text":"第一個就是我們剛剛提到的非控"},{"start":5943.43,"end":5945.43,"text":"跟任務軟體的控制權"},{"start":5945.43,"end":5947.43,"text":"我們看到這些高階的人機的任務"},{"start":5947.43,"end":5949.43,"text":"需要掌握安全啟動"},{"start":5949.43,"end":5951.43,"text":"部長管理、受干擾的控制"},{"start":5951.43,"end":5953.43,"text":"參數調校、版本治理"},{"start":5953.43,"end":5955.43,"text":"甚至自主飛行的能力"},{"start":5955.43,"end":5957.43,"text":"而這些要能夠在異常"},{"start":5957.43,"end":5959.43,"text":"或是干擾的環境當中"},{"start":5959.43,"end":5961.43,"text":"來進行"},{"start":5961.43,"end":5963.43,"text":"這裡面我們認為需要進一步的來強化"},{"start":5963.43,"end":5965.43,"text":"另外是在"},{"start":5965.43,"end":5967.43,"text":"高階的電光感測"},{"start":5967.43,"end":5969.43,"text":"跟精準的抽摘"},{"start":5969.43,"end":5971.43,"text":"特別是在"},{"start":5971.43,"end":5973.43,"text":"強風、震動、長距離的條件之下"},{"start":5973.43,"end":5975.43,"text":"能夠穩定地去"},{"start":5975.43,"end":5977.43,"text":"維持運作"},{"start":5977.43,"end":5979.43,"text":"當然還包括了長航時的動力"},{"start":5979.43,"end":5981.43,"text":"還有能源系統"},{"start":5981.43,"end":5983.43,"text":"以及剛剛提到抗干擾的通訊"},{"start":5983.43,"end":5985.43,"text":"任性定位跟鍛煉的自治"},{"start":5985.43,"end":5987.43,"text":"以及驗證量產"},{"start":5987.43,"end":5989.43,"text":"全生命的週期工程"},{"start":5989.43,"end":5991.43,"text":"最後我想還有30秒的時間"},{"start":5991.43,"end":5993.43,"text":"我們也特別強調"},{"start":5993.43,"end":5995.43,"text":"其實剛剛大家很多在提到"},{"start":5995.43,"end":5997.43,"text":"這些技術或產業或是國防的"},{"start":5997.43,"end":5999.43,"text":"需求的時候"},{"start":5999.43,"end":6001.43,"text":"我們的觀察其中還有一個很重要的是"},{"start":6001.43,"end":6003.43,"text":"軟硬體相關的整合人才"},{"start":6003.43,"end":6005.43,"text":"剛剛提到有許多在這當中"},{"start":6005.43,"end":6007.43,"text":"投入的是中型或是小微的"},{"start":6007.43,"end":6009.43,"text":"企業"},{"start":6009.43,"end":6011.43,"text":"很容易這些國內的人才會流向"},{"start":6011.43,"end":6013.43,"text":"這些大型的科技公司"},{"start":6013.43,"end":6015.43,"text":"上下游的科技公司"},{"start":6015.43,"end":6017.43,"text":"無人機的產業如何能夠"},{"start":6017.43,"end":6019.43,"text":"吸納相關的"},{"start":6019.43,"end":6021.43,"text":"這些人才我們認為是未來"},{"start":6021.43,"end":6023.43,"text":"大家可以持續進一步探討的地方"},{"start":6023.43,"end":6025.43,"text":"所以以上是我的報告"},{"start":6025.43,"end":6027.43,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6027.27,"end":6029.27,"text":"好謝謝黃所長"},{"start":6029.27,"end":6031.27,"text":"接下來邀請黃介政理事長發言"},{"start":6037.8,"end":6039.8,"text":"謝謝主席在座的各位委員"},{"start":6039.8,"end":6041.8,"text":"專家學者還有"},{"start":6041.8,"end":6043.8,"text":"我們行政機關列席的"},{"start":6043.8,"end":6045.8,"text":"各位同仁大家"},{"start":6045.8,"end":6047.8,"text":"早安"},{"start":6047.79,"end":6049.79,"text":"我們"},{"start":6049.9,"end":6051.9,"text":"我特別同情我們今天國防部的同仁"},{"start":6053.41,"end":6055.41,"text":"我們現在的狀況"},{"start":6055.41,"end":6057.41,"text":"我們現在國防部"},{"start":6057.41,"end":6059.41,"text":"面臨我個人認為最大的問題"},{"start":6059.41,"end":6061.41,"text":"就是我們有十輛卡車"},{"start":6061.41,"end":6063.41,"text":"只有七個駕駛兵"},{"start":6065.45,"end":6067.45,"text":"我們現在所有講的國防採購"},{"start":6067.45,"end":6069.45,"text":"不管是已經通過的"},{"start":6069.45,"end":6071.45,"text":"七千八百億"},{"start":6071.45,"end":6073.45,"text":"這個加上去的話我們可能"},{"start":6073.45,"end":6075.45,"text":"有十二三輛卡車"},{"start":6075.45,"end":6077.45,"text":"但是還是七個駕駛兵"},{"start":6077.45,"end":6079.45,"text":"當初如果1.25兆通過的話"},{"start":6079.45,"end":6081.45,"text":"可能我們快有三十輛"},{"start":6081.45,"end":6083.45,"text":"卡車還是七個駕駛兵"},{"start":6084.92,"end":6086.92,"text":"所以我們今天談國防產業"},{"start":6086.92,"end":6088.92,"text":"談國防採購"},{"start":6088.92,"end":6090.92,"text":"不管國際形勢海峽"},{"start":6091.8,"end":6093.8,"text":"的軍事威脅多大"},{"start":6094.47,"end":6096.47,"text":"我們"},{"start":6095.69,"end":6097.69,"text":"有的時候啊一直在"},{"start":6098.12,"end":6100.12,"text":"買裝備"},{"start":6099.6,"end":6101.6,"text":"但是"},{"start":6100.93,"end":6102.93,"text":"一直沒有辦法去面對"},{"start":6102.93,"end":6104.93,"text":"人力缺口的問題"},{"start":6105.74,"end":6107.74,"text":"那因為這樣"},{"start":6107.74,"end":6109.74,"text":"所以"},{"start":6108.7,"end":6110.7,"text":"很多人去考慮"},{"start":6110.7,"end":6112.7,"text":"延長兵役很多人考慮外籍兵團"},{"start":6112.7,"end":6114.7,"text":"很多人考慮到女性"},{"start":6114.7,"end":6116.7,"text":"從軍"},{"start":6116.7,"end":6118.7,"text":"義務役"},{"start":6118.7,"end":6120.7,"text":"有些人考慮到科技發展"},{"start":6120.7,"end":6122.7,"text":"解決問題這不是台灣的問題而已"},{"start":6122.7,"end":6124.7,"text":"日本也是韓國也是"},{"start":6124.49,"end":6126.49,"text":"所以"},{"start":6125.54,"end":6127.54,"text":"我們其實今天在討論"},{"start":6128.64,"end":6130.64,"text":"在立法院這種"},{"start":6130.64,"end":6132.64,"text":"這個地方這個機關"},{"start":6132.64,"end":6134.64,"text":"那個朝野這個"},{"start":6134.64,"end":6136.64,"text":"強烈的對立"},{"start":6136.15,"end":6138.15,"text":"是常態"},{"start":6138.15,"end":6140.15,"text":"也是民主國家的必然"},{"start":6140.74,"end":6142.74,"text":"大家如果要攻防要辯論"},{"start":6144.3,"end":6146.3,"text":"我覺得都是很正常的"},{"start":6147.19,"end":6149.19,"text":"我們手上資料那麼厚一疊"},{"start":6150.63,"end":6152.63,"text":"可見喔"},{"start":6152.63,"end":6154.63,"text":"有共識就是無人載具"},{"start":6154.51,"end":6156.51,"text":"科技發展解決人力缺口的問題"},{"start":6156.51,"end":6158.51,"text":"是我們台灣"},{"start":6158.51,"end":6160.51,"text":"要面對的問題"},{"start":6160.44,"end":6162.44,"text":"我們必須要去考慮用科技的手段"},{"start":6162.44,"end":6164.44,"text":"去解決我們人力不足的問題"},{"start":6164.44,"end":6166.44,"text":"所以"},{"start":6166.44,"end":6168.44,"text":"大家看那麼多黨團那麼多委員"},{"start":6169.99,"end":6171.99,"text":"提無人載具相關的"},{"start":6171.99,"end":6173.99,"text":"這個法案"},{"start":6174.53,"end":6176.53,"text":"條例"},{"start":6176.18,"end":6178.18,"text":"可見無人載具已經是共識了"},{"start":6178.18,"end":6180.18,"text":"今天我們也不用去講"},{"start":6180.18,"end":6182.18,"text":"烏克蘭也不用去講伊朗"},{"start":6182.18,"end":6184.18,"text":"無人載具本來就是"},{"start":6184.18,"end":6186.18,"text":"我們需要的"},{"start":6186.96,"end":6188.96,"text":"我們也有另外一個第二個共識"},{"start":6188.96,"end":6190.96,"text":"就是國際的壓力就在嘛"},{"start":6191.69,"end":6193.69,"text":"台灣要不要提升國防預算"},{"start":6193.69,"end":6195.69,"text":"有沒有壓力"},{"start":6195.69,"end":6197.69,"text":"有嘛"},{"start":6196.63,"end":6198.63,"text":"壓力最大的來源是哪裡"},{"start":6198.63,"end":6200.63,"text":"美國嘛"},{"start":6200.13,"end":6202.13,"text":"啊"},{"start":6201.54,"end":6203.54,"text":"大家也不要不承認"},{"start":6203.21,"end":6205.21,"text":"所以大家又有第二個共識"},{"start":6205.21,"end":6207.21,"text":"就是我們面臨外部壓力"},{"start":6207.21,"end":6209.21,"text":"才會開今天這個公聽會啊"},{"start":6209.21,"end":6211.21,"text":"五年前怎麼沒有無人載具的公聽會呢"},{"start":6212.71,"end":6214.71,"text":"第三個就是"},{"start":6214.71,"end":6216.71,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈喔"},{"start":6216.71,"end":6218.71,"text":"是一個必然我們的處境"},{"start":6218.71,"end":6220.71,"text":"不管是國際或者是我們"},{"start":6220.71,"end":6222.71,"text":"國安的需求"},{"start":6222.42,"end":6224.42,"text":"那飛鴻供應鏈是一個我們"},{"start":6225.67,"end":6227.67,"text":"跟烏克蘭不一樣的"},{"start":6227.67,"end":6229.67,"text":"跟伊朗不一樣的地方"},{"start":6229.64,"end":6231.64,"text":"因為很多別的國家"},{"start":6231.64,"end":6233.64,"text":"可能在發展無人"},{"start":6233.64,"end":6235.64,"text":"載具產業的時候不用考慮"},{"start":6235.64,"end":6237.64,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":6237.74,"end":6239.74,"text":"那我們就要"},{"start":6239.46,"end":6241.46,"text":"那我們如何能夠在飛鴻供應鏈的"},{"start":6241.46,"end":6243.46,"text":"限制條件之下"},{"start":6243.46,"end":6245.46,"text":"創造發展出一個我國"},{"start":6245.46,"end":6247.46,"text":"自己"},{"start":6247.75,"end":6249.75,"text":"讓台灣可以"},{"start":6249.75,"end":6251.75,"text":"讓台灣可以在國際的供應鏈中間"},{"start":6251.75,"end":6253.75,"text":"發展出一個具有特色的"},{"start":6253.75,"end":6255.75,"text":"一個產業就非常重要"},{"start":6258.06,"end":6260.06,"text":"大家都要顯示防衛決心"},{"start":6261.23,"end":6263.23,"text":"我長期從事對美工作"},{"start":6264.62,"end":6266.62,"text":"到美國國會山莊"},{"start":6266.62,"end":6268.62,"text":"每一個國會議員給你大概"},{"start":6268.62,"end":6270.62,"text":"就是十分鐘"},{"start":6270.58,"end":6272.58,"text":"所以他們的想法"},{"start":6272.58,"end":6274.58,"text":"展現決心就是掏錢"},{"start":6276.03,"end":6278.03,"text":"邊預算"},{"start":6277.31,"end":6279.31,"text":"增加國防預算就是決心"},{"start":6279.72,"end":6281.72,"text":"但是我們在場所有人都知道"},{"start":6282.41,"end":6284.41,"text":"國防真正的決心是培植"},{"start":6285.65,"end":6287.65,"text":"實際的戰鬥能力"},{"start":6287.65,"end":6289.65,"text":"作戰能量跟能力"},{"start":6290.32,"end":6292.32,"text":"不是只有錢而已"},{"start":6293.24,"end":6295.24,"text":"那麼所以"},{"start":6294.59,"end":6296.59,"text":"依照防衛決心大家就會去辯論"},{"start":6296.59,"end":6298.59,"text":"到底要編特別預算還是經常性的預算"},{"start":6300.43,"end":6302.43,"text":"另外就是無人產業"},{"start":6303.74,"end":6307.74,"text":"我們是只買無人軍事用的無人載具呢"},{"start":6307.74,"end":6309.74,"text":"還是我們藉由這個機會"},{"start":6309.74,"end":6311.74,"text":"把我們整體國防"},{"start":6313.64,"end":6315.64,"text":"整體國家的產業結構"},{"start":6316.77,"end":6318.77,"text":"把香堪進去一個無人載具"},{"start":6319.92,"end":6321.92,"text":"的未來"},{"start":6321.91,"end":6323.91,"text":"所以我們到底是看整體產業發展"},{"start":6323.91,"end":6325.91,"text":"還是看緊急採購"},{"start":6326.47,"end":6328.47,"text":"國防武器採購當然很重要"},{"start":6328.93,"end":6330.93,"text":"四十年前我到美國我就開始"},{"start":6333.07,"end":6335.07,"text":"經歷到很多國防部的同仁面臨"},{"start":6335.07,"end":6337.07,"text":"華美會議的壓力"},{"start":6341.07,"end":6343.07,"text":"所以我們今天到底是先開五年菜單"},{"start":6343.07,"end":6345.07,"text":"滿漢全席我告訴你"},{"start":6345.07,"end":6347.07,"text":"第一道菜什麼第二道菜什麼"},{"start":6347.07,"end":6349.07,"text":"五年之內就吃這個東西"},{"start":6351.95,"end":6353.95,"text":"還是我們給台灣所有的產業"},{"start":6353.95,"end":6355.95,"text":"一個多重菜市場"},{"start":6358.38,"end":6360.38,"text":"有超市有傳統市場"},{"start":6360.83,"end":6362.83,"text":"你可以買到當季的東西"},{"start":6364.3,"end":6366.3,"text":"彈性"},{"start":6365.5,"end":6367.5,"text":"激動"},{"start":6367.41,"end":6369.41,"text":"這個非常重要"},{"start":6369.62,"end":6371.62,"text":"我現在也不敢講"},{"start":6371.98,"end":6373.98,"text":"五年後的無菜單料理裡面"},{"start":6373.98,"end":6375.98,"text":"會有哪些東西"},{"start":6376.27,"end":6378.27,"text":"所以我們要保持一定的彈性"},{"start":6379.32,"end":6381.32,"text":"科技的發展永遠走在法律的前面"},{"start":6383.74,"end":6385.74,"text":"大家看AI就知道了"},{"start":6386.02,"end":6388.02,"text":"對不對 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都不難"},{"start":6867.01,"end":6869.01,"text":"但是要量產"},{"start":6869.01,"end":6871.01,"text":"因應未來戰場的需求"},{"start":6871.01,"end":6873.01,"text":"就蠻困難的"},{"start":6873.01,"end":6875.01,"text":"為什麼?材料從哪裡來?"},{"start":6875.01,"end":6877.01,"text":"設備從哪裡來?組裝在哪裡?"},{"start":6877.01,"end":6879.01,"text":"甚至水下載具"},{"start":6879.01,"end":6881.01,"text":"或者是無人船"},{"start":6881.01,"end":6883.01,"text":"都需要有基地"},{"start":6883.01,"end":6885.01,"text":"要有母船下海"},{"start":6883.8,"end":6885.8,"text":"所以光看這樣子的一個"},{"start":6885.8,"end":6887.8,"text":"過去的一個採購案"},{"start":6887.8,"end":6889.8,"text":"其實"},{"start":6888.64,"end":6890.64,"text":"從我們業界角度"},{"start":6890.64,"end":6892.64,"text":"其實都是買半套"},{"start":6892.64,"end":6894.64,"text":"因為只有買載具,沒有買配套"},{"start":6894.64,"end":6896.64,"text":"所以我們必須要提醒"},{"start":6896.64,"end":6898.64,"text":"不管是特別條例"},{"start":6898.64,"end":6900.64,"text":"或者長年編列的預算"},{"start":6900.64,"end":6902.64,"text":"有很多的配套必須要有經驗"},{"start":6902.64,"end":6904.64,"text":"要有實戰的能力"},{"start":6904.64,"end":6906.64,"text":"來供應"},{"start":6906.64,"end":6908.64,"text":"甚至是對應到採購的這個需求"},{"start":6908.99,"end":6910.99,"text":"國外怎麼做?"},{"start":6910.99,"end":6912.99,"text":"那在我的書面資料裡面"},{"start":6912.99,"end":6914.99,"text":"其實也幫各位整理好"},{"start":6914.99,"end":6916.99,"text":"國外有幾個案例包含像歐洲"},{"start":6916.99,"end":6918.99,"text":"像這個澳洲還有美國"},{"start":6919.91,"end":6921.91,"text":"其實在這種新興的水下載具"},{"start":6921.91,"end":6923.91,"text":"無人載具的產業發展"},{"start":6923.91,"end":6925.91,"text":"都必須要經過POC"},{"start":6925.91,"end":6927.91,"text":"也就是死鎮計畫"},{"start":6927.61,"end":6929.61,"text":"如果沒有經過POC,沒有經過死鎮計畫"},{"start":6930.68,"end":6932.68,"text":"軍方採購、政府採購"},{"start":6932.68,"end":6934.68,"text":"一下子就要採購很成熟的產品"},{"start":6935,"end":6937,"text":"台灣的產業一點機會都沒用"},{"start":6937.77,"end":6939.77,"text":"最後我們會看到的"},{"start":6939.77,"end":6941.77,"text":"從美國進來,從歐洲進來"},{"start":6942.05,"end":6944.05,"text":"現在這樣的情況會越來越難"},{"start":6944.05,"end":6946.05,"text":"因為全世界都在搶無人機"},{"start":6946.05,"end":6948.05,"text":"搶無人載具"},{"start":6949.8,"end":6951.8,"text":"我們最近跟美國的一些"},{"start":6951.8,"end":6953.8,"text":"新創公司還有產業交流"},{"start":6953.8,"end":6955.8,"text":"他們說現在水下無人載具"},{"start":6955.8,"end":6957.8,"text":"已經全部被控制"},{"start":6957.8,"end":6959.8,"text":"台灣要買得到"},{"start":6960.45,"end":6962.45,"text":"哪怕是一台,都有困難"},{"start":6963.42,"end":6965.42,"text":"如果我們沒有趁這樣子的機會"},{"start":6965.42,"end":6967.42,"text":"建立起台灣的供應鏈"},{"start":6967.42,"end":6969.42,"text":"甚至跟國外合作"},{"start":6969.79,"end":6971.79,"text":"在未來的戰場需求"},{"start":6971.79,"end":6973.79,"text":"甚至是平時"},{"start":6973.79,"end":6975.79,"text":"不要到戰時,平時的檢測"},{"start":6975.79,"end":6977.79,"text":"都還蠻困難的"},{"start":6977.07,"end":6979.07,"text":"要怎麼樣建立從需求到POC到量產"},{"start":6979.07,"end":6981.07,"text":"其實有幾個階段"},{"start":6981.07,"end":6983.07,"text":"第一個要明定水下的範圍"},{"start":6983.07,"end":6985.07,"text":"不同的水深、戰場環境、任務都不一樣"},{"start":6986.74,"end":6988.74,"text":"POC,從政府出資也好"},{"start":6988.74,"end":6990.74,"text":"從民間募資也好"},{"start":6990.74,"end":6992.74,"text":"其實都有很多的機會可以來做"},{"start":6993.06,"end":6995.06,"text":"分級的海事"},{"start":6995.06,"end":6997.06,"text":"在這邊我必須要強調"},{"start":6997.06,"end":6999.06,"text":"我們現在看到的無人船"},{"start":6999.06,"end":7001.06,"text":"水下載具的測試"},{"start":7000.37,"end":7002.37,"text":"竟然是要求我們業者"},{"start":7002.37,"end":7004.37,"text":"要先完成認證"},{"start":7005.3,"end":7007.3,"text":"我想提醒,我產品完成認證"},{"start":7007.3,"end":7009.3,"text":"我要測試什麼"},{"start":7009.01,"end":7011.01,"text":"我就是還沒有取得認證我才要測試"},{"start":7011.95,"end":7013.95,"text":"所以我真的是誠心建議"},{"start":7013.95,"end":7015.95,"text":"包含交通部或經濟部這邊"},{"start":7015.95,"end":7017.95,"text":"再訂定很多的安全規定"},{"start":7017.95,"end":7019.95,"text":"我們都希望安全"},{"start":7021.09,"end":7023.09,"text":"但是很多的安全是來自於"},{"start":7023.09,"end":7025.09,"text":"人的不信任"},{"start":7025.09,"end":7027.09,"text":"不是機器的不好"},{"start":7027.1,"end":7029.1,"text":"那像這一些的認證"},{"start":7029.63,"end":7031.63,"text":"我沒有被邀請過"},{"start":7031.19,"end":7033.19,"text":"那我就覺得很好奇"},{"start":7033.33,"end":7035.33,"text":"我們是一家廠商"},{"start":7035.33,"end":7037.33,"text":"我們有時機,我們也完成POC"},{"start":7037.33,"end":7039.33,"text":"我們也常年在海上作業"},{"start":7038.96,"end":7040.96,"text":"訂定了這一些的一個安全的規範"},{"start":7040.96,"end":7042.96,"text":"我們看不懂"},{"start":7043.98,"end":7045.98,"text":"先取得認證"},{"start":7045.98,"end":7047.98,"text":"才能去做測試的原因是什麼"},{"start":7047.98,"end":7049.98,"text":"測試就是要知道他哪裡不安全"},{"start":7049.98,"end":7051.98,"text":"既然他安全了"},{"start":7051.98,"end":7053.98,"text":"何需要再測試"},{"start":7053.98,"end":7055.98,"text":"我們就可以去賣了,就可以去用了"},{"start":7055.98,"end":7057.98,"text":"根本就不需要這樣子的一個規範"},{"start":7057.98,"end":7059.98,"text":"所以我們希望先解開"},{"start":7059.98,"end":7061.98,"text":"這樣子的一個環節"},{"start":7061.48,"end":7063.48,"text":"再來是公開需求"},{"start":7064.14,"end":7066.14,"text":"我們在開發台核的時候"},{"start":7066.14,"end":7068.14,"text":"我們請議過軍方"},{"start":7068.14,"end":7070.14,"text":"請議過政府單位"},{"start":7070.62,"end":7072.62,"text":"我們一概被回絕"},{"start":7072.62,"end":7074.62,"text":"因為我們是民間企業"},{"start":7074.62,"end":7076.62,"text":"拿不到列累的戰術"},{"start":7077.51,"end":7079.51,"text":"抵對國可能會防止什麼樣的稅累"},{"start":7081.41,"end":7083.41,"text":"這樣子的一個需求其實不低於台灣產業發展"},{"start":7083.41,"end":7085.41,"text":"所以建議是在適當"},{"start":7085.41,"end":7087.41,"text":"非機密的這樣子"},{"start":7087.41,"end":7089.41,"text":"任務的情況下"},{"start":7089.41,"end":7091.41,"text":"能夠促進產、軍、官、學研"},{"start":7091.41,"end":7093.41,"text":"一起來開發像這樣子一個產業需求"},{"start":7097.52,"end":7099.52,"text":"最後我想要以這個水下載具"},{"start":7099.52,"end":7101.52,"text":"從一個完整的產業鏈"},{"start":7101.52,"end":7103.52,"text":"跟系統成合能力"},{"start":7103.52,"end":7105.52,"text":"來讓各位知道"},{"start":7105.82,"end":7107.82,"text":"資良公司是一家系統商"},{"start":7107.82,"end":7109.82,"text":"我們很像是一家車廠"},{"start":7109.59,"end":7111.59,"text":"引擎不會自己做"},{"start":7111.59,"end":7113.59,"text":"輪胎不會自己做"},{"start":7113.59,"end":7115.59,"text":"但是我們有能力整合"},{"start":7115.59,"end":7117.59,"text":"在台灣要有這樣子整合能力的企業"},{"start":7117.25,"end":7119.25,"text":"甚至是學員節其實不多"},{"start":7119.25,"end":7121.25,"text":"特別是"},{"start":7121.06,"end":7123.06,"text":"面對像未來軍方"},{"start":7123.06,"end":7125.06,"text":"或者是這種大量生產"},{"start":7125.58,"end":7127.58,"text":"我還是要強調生產一台不難"},{"start":7127.58,"end":7129.58,"text":"量產才難"},{"start":7129.58,"end":7131.58,"text":"所以各位看到"},{"start":7131.58,"end":7133.58,"text":"台灣在這所有的簡報上面"},{"start":7133.58,"end":7135.58,"text":"所有的供應鏈裡面"},{"start":7135.58,"end":7137.58,"text":"我們究竟能做多少項"},{"start":7137.58,"end":7139.58,"text":"有沒有一些優先次序"},{"start":7139.08,"end":7141.08,"text":"有沒有一些台灣優勢可以先去做的"},{"start":7142.44,"end":7144.44,"text":"我們不斷的盤點"},{"start":7144.13,"end":7146.13,"text":"最近蠻多政府單位或法人來拜訪我"},{"start":7146.13,"end":7148.13,"text":"我就說"},{"start":7148.13,"end":7150.13,"text":"台灣不可能什麼都自己做"},{"start":7150.13,"end":7152.13,"text":"台灣要做的應該是我們缺乏的"},{"start":7153.16,"end":7155.16,"text":"缺乏的是什麼"},{"start":7155.16,"end":7157.16,"text":"應該是要好好盤點"},{"start":7156.48,"end":7158.48,"text":"學校載具一旦能做"},{"start":7159.27,"end":7161.27,"text":"我相信無人船無人機"},{"start":7161.27,"end":7163.27,"text":"我們都有能力整合"},{"start":7163.27,"end":7165.27,"text":"因為水下載具是最難的"},{"start":7165.24,"end":7167.24,"text":"再加上"},{"start":7166.56,"end":7168.56,"text":"水下載具它要對抗的是對岸"},{"start":7168.56,"end":7170.56,"text":"所以光是這些"},{"start":7170.56,"end":7172.56,"text":"我們就是需要去形成"},{"start":7172.56,"end":7174.56,"text":"一個共識"},{"start":7175.13,"end":7177.13,"text":"我不是從今天才開始談產業"},{"start":7177.13,"end":7179.13,"text":"我在25年前看到"},{"start":7179.13,"end":7181.13,"text":"美國透過學研界"},{"start":7181.13,"end":7183.13,"text":"透過美國海軍"},{"start":7183.13,"end":7185.13,"text":"派了一些代表就來台灣做實驗"},{"start":7186.17,"end":7188.17,"text":"他要做什麼實驗"},{"start":7188.17,"end":7190.17,"text":"要調查南海台灣海峽的水溫"},{"start":7190.17,"end":7192.17,"text":"就是為了抵禦對岸"},{"start":7193.08,"end":7195.08,"text":"我在2020年一直到今天"},{"start":7195.08,"end":7197.08,"text":"我特別要跟各位報告"},{"start":7197.08,"end":7199.08,"text":"Machin台灣台灣海洋科技紀念載具展"},{"start":7199.08,"end":7201.08,"text":"由我來籌辦"},{"start":7201.56,"end":7203.56,"text":"沒有人想要去做這件事情"},{"start":7203.56,"end":7205.56,"text":"因為它蠻難的"},{"start":7205.56,"end":7207.56,"text":"歡迎各位11月2號可以先到"},{"start":7207.56,"end":7209.56,"text":"台南"},{"start":7209.3,"end":7211.3,"text":"我們現在有台船"},{"start":7211.3,"end":7213.3,"text":"有雷虎有紫陽國外有"},{"start":7213.3,"end":7215.3,"text":"有C-Sat"},{"start":7215.3,"end":7217.3,"text":"預計有十幾家台美"},{"start":7217.3,"end":7219.3,"text":"無人船水下載具"},{"start":7219.14,"end":7221.14,"text":"會在安平港聯合展演"},{"start":7221.14,"end":7223.14,"text":"我們要做第一次"},{"start":7223,"end":7225,"text":"我們也非常期待像這樣子的展演"},{"start":7225,"end":7227,"text":"能夠讓台灣"},{"start":7227,"end":7229,"text":"不管是政府單位"},{"start":7229,"end":7231,"text":"不管是學研界"},{"start":7231,"end":7233,"text":"不管是國際合作都能夠有機會"},{"start":7233.72,"end":7235.72,"text":"這是我最後一頁"},{"start":7235.72,"end":7237.72,"text":"容許我多花30秒"},{"start":7237.03,"end":7239.03,"text":"請支持特別條例"},{"start":7239.03,"end":7241.03,"text":"必須要補上水下制度"},{"start":7241.25,"end":7243.25,"text":"水下載具"},{"start":7243.25,"end":7245.25,"text":"不是一般的無人機"},{"start":7245.25,"end":7247.25,"text":"不是一般的無人船"},{"start":7247.25,"end":7249.25,"text":"它必須要搭配了很多的聲納"},{"start":7249.25,"end":7251.25,"text":"很多的感測器"},{"start":7251.67,"end":7253.67,"text":"台灣有沒有能力製作聲納"},{"start":7253.82,"end":7255.82,"text":"跟各位報告"},{"start":7255.82,"end":7257.82,"text":"有 但是幾年內做不到"},{"start":7258.19,"end":7260.19,"text":"很多人問我說他男在哪裡"},{"start":7260.96,"end":7262.96,"text":"男在客戶不敢跟你買"},{"start":7264.11,"end":7266.11,"text":"這是一個很現實的"},{"start":7266.11,"end":7268.11,"text":"我們用的聲納都是歐美大廠"},{"start":7267.71,"end":7269.71,"text":"所以台灣要做的是"},{"start":7269.71,"end":7271.71,"text":"我們可以什麼"},{"start":7271.71,"end":7273.71,"text":"關鍵技術可以先自己做"},{"start":7273.71,"end":7275.71,"text":"來補足"},{"start":7275.71,"end":7277.71,"text":"要掌握台灣海峽這個戰局"},{"start":7277.71,"end":7279.71,"text":"甚至快速建立水下戰場"},{"start":7279.71,"end":7281.71,"text":"甚至是跟國際合作"},{"start":7281.71,"end":7283.71,"text":"轉化成台灣"},{"start":7283.71,"end":7285.71,"text":"是一個採購的樞紐"},{"start":7285.71,"end":7287.71,"text":"這也是我們舉辦"},{"start":7289.04,"end":7291.04,"text":"台灣海洋科技暨無人載具展"},{"start":7291.04,"end":7293.04,"text":"一個很重要的一個契機"},{"start":7293.04,"end":7295.04,"text":"11月2號"},{"start":7295.04,"end":7297.04,"text":"在安平港我們會做展示"},{"start":7297.04,"end":7299.04,"text":"11月3到5號"},{"start":7299.04,"end":7301.04,"text":"在大台南會展中心"},{"start":7301.04,"end":7303.04,"text":"會有最盛大的展出"},{"start":7303.04,"end":7305.04,"text":"各位看到全世界"},{"start":7305.04,"end":7307.04,"text":"台灣最優秀最優異的"},{"start":7307.04,"end":7309.04,"text":"產品都會在這邊呈現"},{"start":7309.04,"end":7311.04,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝各位"},{"start":7311.61,"end":7313.61,"text":"謝謝戰總經理非常專業的內容"},{"start":7313.61,"end":7315.61,"text":"接下來有請民傳大學的"},{"start":7315.61,"end":7317.61,"text":"紀俊成紀教授"},{"start":7317.61,"end":7319.61,"text":"老師請"},{"start":7320.37,"end":7322.37,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7335.93,"end":7337.93,"text":"主席"},{"start":7337.16,"end":7339.16,"text":"各位協助專家"},{"start":7339.16,"end":7341.16,"text":"各位機關代表"},{"start":7340.76,"end":7342.76,"text":"今天能夠"},{"start":7342.76,"end":7344.76,"text":"參加這個公聽會"},{"start":7344.52,"end":7346.52,"text":"我個人覺得這是一個非常"},{"start":7346.52,"end":7348.52,"text":"榮幸的事情"},{"start":7349.21,"end":7351.21,"text":"但是我們也有一些問題"},{"start":7351.21,"end":7353.21,"text":"還是要來討論"},{"start":7352.96,"end":7354.96,"text":"第一個"},{"start":7354.21,"end":7356.21,"text":"就是這個立法的問題"},{"start":7356.87,"end":7358.87,"text":"我們這個特別條例"},{"start":7358.87,"end":7360.87,"text":"用語是錯誤的"},{"start":7361.06,"end":7363.06,"text":"因為法律條例"},{"start":7364.79,"end":7366.79,"text":"通者就四種"},{"start":7366.79,"end":7368.79,"text":"哪裡來一個特別條例"},{"start":7368.16,"end":7370.16,"text":"這個是啊"},{"start":7370.16,"end":7372.16,"text":"從這個蘇貞昌當院長以後"},{"start":7372.16,"end":7374.16,"text":"才搞出來的兵塔"},{"start":7373.63,"end":7375.63,"text":"應該正確的話"},{"start":7375.63,"end":7377.63,"text":"應該是特別預算條例還有一點道理"},{"start":7378.42,"end":7380.42,"text":"他是把預算的部分"},{"start":7380.42,"end":7382.42,"text":"特別罰"},{"start":7382.52,"end":7384.52,"text":"為什麼我會這樣講呢"},{"start":7384.52,"end":7386.52,"text":"因為行政院的版本"},{"start":7386.52,"end":7388.52,"text":"只有七條"},{"start":7387.79,"end":7389.79,"text":"七條裡面啊"},{"start":7389.75,"end":7391.75,"text":"第一條是立法目的"},{"start":7391.75,"end":7393.75,"text":"最後一條是執行的時間"},{"start":7395.01,"end":7397.01,"text":"加錢"},{"start":7396.92,"end":7398.92,"text":"除一詞的話呢"},{"start":7398.92,"end":7400.92,"text":"只剩下五條"},{"start":7400.92,"end":7402.92,"text":"五條有一條是必然有損盡的問題"},{"start":7402.81,"end":7404.81,"text":"隨便四條"},{"start":7404.24,"end":7406.24,"text":"最重要只有一條"},{"start":7406.24,"end":7408.24,"text":"就是啊"},{"start":7408.24,"end":7410.24,"text":"預算啊"},{"start":7409.22,"end":7411.22,"text":"破除啊這個公共債務法的限制"},{"start":7413.1,"end":7415.1,"text":"所以這個就是說明啊"},{"start":7415.14,"end":7417.14,"text":"我們的這個行政院啊"},{"start":7417.54,"end":7419.54,"text":"我當然自己要批評的"},{"start":7419.54,"end":7421.54,"text":"就是這個行政院"},{"start":7421.54,"end":7423.54,"text":"主計總處啊"},{"start":7423.38,"end":7425.38,"text":"可以說是不負責任"},{"start":7425.82,"end":7427.82,"text":"另最愛一個法律"},{"start":7427.83,"end":7429.83,"text":"這個法律竟然是要以特別罰"},{"start":7430.9,"end":7432.9,"text":"而且是要排除"},{"start":7433.52,"end":7435.52,"text":"公共債務法的收支便宜的規定"},{"start":7437.55,"end":7439.55,"text":"那你"},{"start":7440.69,"end":7442.69,"text":"這樣一個條文"},{"start":7442.69,"end":7444.69,"text":"怎麼叫做"},{"start":7443.29,"end":7445.29,"text":"要促進產業發展呢"},{"start":7445.69,"end":7447.69,"text":"而且還明定的是要"},{"start":7448.32,"end":7450.32,"text":"要採購"},{"start":7449.96,"end":7451.96,"text":"各位要了解"},{"start":7451.44,"end":7453.44,"text":"但那一個採購的話呢"},{"start":7453.44,"end":7455.44,"text":"產業就能發展起來嗎"},{"start":7455.61,"end":7457.61,"text":"請剛剛幾位"},{"start":7457.61,"end":7459.61,"text":"學者專家的說明都很清楚"},{"start":7460.55,"end":7462.55,"text":"這是一個技術的問題"},{"start":7463.07,"end":7465.07,"text":"這些技術我們是不是都成熟"},{"start":7465.75,"end":7467.75,"text":"我們有很多還是不成熟的"},{"start":7468.48,"end":7470.48,"text":"所以啊我個人呢"},{"start":7470.48,"end":7472.48,"text":"是認為"},{"start":7471.94,"end":7473.94,"text":"就立法方面啊"},{"start":7473.85,"end":7475.85,"text":"他咧應該是一個暫行條例"},{"start":7477.39,"end":7479.39,"text":"因為他有時間的限制"},{"start":7479.39,"end":7481.39,"text":"只到這個"},{"start":7481.39,"end":7483.39,"text":"120"},{"start":7483.22,"end":7485.22,"text":"120年嘛"},{"start":7485.22,"end":7487.22,"text":"所以有一個時間應該是"},{"start":7487.22,"end":7489.22,"text":"像我們過去啊特別預算的"},{"start":7489.22,"end":7491.22,"text":"定乎都是要暫行條例"},{"start":7491.22,"end":7493.22,"text":"沒有什麼特別條例的"},{"start":7493.32,"end":7495.32,"text":"這是一個問題"},{"start":7494.88,"end":7496.88,"text":"再來我想進一步要說明的"},{"start":7497.44,"end":7499.44,"text":"就說這一次"},{"start":7501.26,"end":7503.26,"text":"政府也好"},{"start":7502.94,"end":7504.94,"text":"執政黨方面都是啊"},{"start":7504.94,"end":7506.94,"text":"認為他是要促進產業的發展"},{"start":7506.94,"end":7508.94,"text":"剛剛啊我們學者專家"},{"start":7508.94,"end":7510.94,"text":"也都有這樣一個共識"},{"start":7511.57,"end":7513.57,"text":"促進無人載具的產業發展"},{"start":7513.57,"end":7515.57,"text":"這是大家共同期待的"},{"start":7517,"end":7519,"text":"但是各位有沒有想到"},{"start":7519.01,"end":7521.01,"text":"我們過去促進產業發展"},{"start":7521.51,"end":7523.51,"text":"特別條例嗎"},{"start":7522.96,"end":7524.96,"text":"有訂特畢預算嗎"},{"start":7524.96,"end":7526.96,"text":"沒有啊"},{"start":7525.79,"end":7527.79,"text":"那現在有需要"},{"start":7527.48,"end":7529.48,"text":"那是需要真的是"},{"start":7529.48,"end":7531.48,"text":"要用特別預算還是連續預算比較好"},{"start":7532.68,"end":7534.68,"text":"我個人是覺得"},{"start":7534.65,"end":7536.65,"text":"單單一個七個條文"},{"start":7537.27,"end":7539.27,"text":"要來啊"},{"start":7538.72,"end":7540.72,"text":"來鼓勵啊產業發展啊"},{"start":7540.72,"end":7542.72,"text":"這是啊不可能的事情"},{"start":7543.85,"end":7545.85,"text":"所以說呢如果真的有心"},{"start":7546.82,"end":7548.82,"text":"要承諾剛剛中委員所提到的"},{"start":7548.82,"end":7550.82,"text":"條文要寫得更清楚一點"},{"start":7550.82,"end":7552.82,"text":"要把鼓勵產業啦"},{"start":7552.82,"end":7554.82,"text":"要寫進去"},{"start":7554.82,"end":7556.82,"text":"不是寫一個七個條文啊"},{"start":7556.82,"end":7558.82,"text":"我研究這個台灣的立法"},{"start":7558.82,"end":7560.82,"text":"幾十年啊"},{"start":7560.82,"end":7562.82,"text":"看到我都覺得好笑啊"},{"start":7562.07,"end":7564.07,"text":"那就特別預算條例就好了嘛"},{"start":7564.07,"end":7566.07,"text":"何必寫得那麼長呢"},{"start":7568.13,"end":7570.13,"text":"所以說我認為從產業的發展來講的話"},{"start":7570.13,"end":7572.13,"text":"那我們就要分為兩方面"},{"start":7574.26,"end":7576.26,"text":"一個是金用的無人載具"},{"start":7577.24,"end":7579.24,"text":"還有灰金用的無人載具"},{"start":7579.93,"end":7581.93,"text":"那現在國王務首"},{"start":7583.08,"end":7585.08,"text":"主政的這一個部位咧"},{"start":7585.08,"end":7587.08,"text":"當然他是比較傾向於啊"},{"start":7587.08,"end":7589.08,"text":"這個"},{"start":7588.68,"end":7590.68,"text":"金用載具"},{"start":7590.3,"end":7592.3,"text":"但是剛剛啊"},{"start":7592.3,"end":7594.3,"text":"我們也聽到了幾位學者專家的說明"},{"start":7596.99,"end":7598.99,"text":"金用載具的問題"},{"start":7599.42,"end":7601.42,"text":"並不是啊"},{"start":7601.42,"end":7603.42,"text":"單單把那個無人載送出去就好了"},{"start":7603.57,"end":7605.57,"text":"他還要放炸彈啊"},{"start":7605.57,"end":7607.57,"text":"他可能還要放別的東西啊"},{"start":7607.57,"end":7609.57,"text":"這個技術上的問題啊"},{"start":7609.57,"end":7611.57,"text":"可能是個大問題"},{"start":7610.88,"end":7612.88,"text":"而且呢"},{"start":7612.41,"end":7614.41,"text":"都一定要用晶片"},{"start":7614.82,"end":7616.82,"text":"那麼晶片的發展日新月異"},{"start":7618.01,"end":7620.01,"text":"如果你變特別預算的話"},{"start":7620.85,"end":7622.85,"text":"那麼五連下來"},{"start":7622.85,"end":7624.85,"text":"除了剛剛我們黃理事長所提到"},{"start":7624.85,"end":7626.85,"text":"就框住了怎麼辦咧"},{"start":7626.79,"end":7628.79,"text":"所以我是比較傾向於啊"},{"start":7628.79,"end":7630.79,"text":"年度預算來邊"},{"start":7630.84,"end":7632.84,"text":"來喔"},{"start":7632.46,"end":7634.46,"text":"隨著"},{"start":7633.71,"end":7635.71,"text":"科技的進步"},{"start":7635.82,"end":7637.82,"text":"可以啊做適當的調整"},{"start":7638.53,"end":7640.53,"text":"我們也不一定能剩下四百億啊"},{"start":7640.83,"end":7642.83,"text":"也許說不定以後扣進"},{"start":7643.8,"end":7645.8,"text":"發展呢又更便宜也可能"},{"start":7645.8,"end":7647.8,"text":"當然也有可能更貴"},{"start":7647.8,"end":7649.8,"text":"所以說咧這樣的一個情況啊"},{"start":7649.8,"end":7651.8,"text":"可能更活需要"},{"start":7652.62,"end":7654.62,"text":"再來一點啊"},{"start":7654.62,"end":7656.62,"text":"也可以真的是把這個非金用的"},{"start":7656.62,"end":7658.62,"text":"這個產業發展"},{"start":7658.62,"end":7660.62,"text":"把它發展起來"},{"start":7660.05,"end":7662.05,"text":"我想這個是"},{"start":7662.19,"end":7664.19,"text":"過去在強調說"},{"start":7664.19,"end":7666.19,"text":"我們有這個戶口神山"},{"start":7666.19,"end":7668.19,"text":"我們希望無人載具啊"},{"start":7668.19,"end":7670.19,"text":"是未來的戶口神山啊"},{"start":7670.19,"end":7672.19,"text":"那當然就不可能是金用部分"},{"start":7672.19,"end":7674.19,"text":"而已"},{"start":7674.19,"end":7676.19,"text":"要包括非金用的商用的才有可能"},{"start":7676.94,"end":7678.94,"text":"所以說在這個情況之下咧"},{"start":7679.54,"end":7681.54,"text":"我是覺得啊這個"},{"start":7681.54,"end":7683.54,"text":"特別條例啊應該啊"},{"start":7684.48,"end":7686.48,"text":"如果真的要通過的話"},{"start":7686.48,"end":7688.48,"text":"要做大修正"},{"start":7688.48,"end":7690.48,"text":"因為顯然啊"},{"start":7690.48,"end":7692.48,"text":"他是不能夠啊滿足啊"},{"start":7692.48,"end":7694.48,"text":"他原來有規定的"},{"start":7695.3,"end":7697.3,"text":"國民黨民眾黨"},{"start":7697.3,"end":7699.3,"text":"所提的版本啊"},{"start":7699.13,"end":7701.13,"text":"至少咧還寫了23條"},{"start":7701.13,"end":7703.13,"text":"20幾條"},{"start":7703.13,"end":7705.13,"text":"還比較多元一點"},{"start":7705.13,"end":7707.13,"text":"所以我是覺得啊"},{"start":7707.13,"end":7709.13,"text":"這方面啊我們啊"},{"start":7709.13,"end":7711.13,"text":"朝偉之間啊要以"},{"start":7711.11,"end":7713.11,"text":"國家唱聲為列啦"},{"start":7713.39,"end":7715.39,"text":"要以整個產業發展來考量"},{"start":7717.02,"end":7719.02,"text":"而不是說我通過就好"},{"start":7719.06,"end":7721.06,"text":"通過最後不可行"},{"start":7721.06,"end":7723.06,"text":"通過最後咧"},{"start":7723.06,"end":7725.06,"text":"可能啊還要大修改"},{"start":7725.06,"end":7727.06,"text":"那不是百非一常嗎"},{"start":7727.06,"end":7729.06,"text":"所以我是建議啊"},{"start":7729.06,"end":7731.06,"text":"這個"},{"start":7730.57,"end":7732.57,"text":"這個條例要通過啊"},{"start":7732.7,"end":7734.7,"text":"卡路斯尼哥"},{"start":7734.81,"end":7736.81,"text":"艱難的工程"},{"start":7736.81,"end":7738.81,"text":"而確實啊必須要"},{"start":7738.81,"end":7740.81,"text":"做大一個修正"},{"start":7741.15,"end":7743.15,"text":"那麼再來一點啊"},{"start":7743.15,"end":7745.15,"text":"就是說剛剛提到這個"},{"start":7746.28,"end":7748.28,"text":"載具的事情"},{"start":7747.95,"end":7749.95,"text":"那麼因為科技的發展咧"},{"start":7750.99,"end":7752.99,"text":"是相當的進步"},{"start":7752.99,"end":7754.99,"text":"而且是入行業餘啊"},{"start":7754.63,"end":7756.63,"text":"所以怎麼樣的"},{"start":7756.44,"end":7758.44,"text":"使這個相關財"},{"start":7758.44,"end":7760.44,"text":"相關部會啊"},{"start":7759.59,"end":7761.59,"text":"扮演中文角色"},{"start":7761.1,"end":7763.1,"text":"我們看到相關的資料裡面啊"},{"start":7763.1,"end":7765.1,"text":"好像是教中部啊"},{"start":7765.64,"end":7767.64,"text":"或是這個"},{"start":7768.12,"end":7770.12,"text":"市委發展部啊"},{"start":7770.12,"end":7772.12,"text":"他們有一些能力可以處理"},{"start":7772.12,"end":7774.12,"text":"但是他做的是可能啊"},{"start":7774.12,"end":7776.12,"text":"是無人載具的一個"},{"start":7776.12,"end":7778.12,"text":"把他送出去而已的"},{"start":7778.12,"end":7780.12,"text":"的一個能力的一個檢驗"},{"start":7780.12,"end":7782.12,"text":"真正對於啊他掛什麼東西啊"},{"start":7782.12,"end":7784.12,"text":"他做什麼使用啊"},{"start":7784.52,"end":7786.52,"text":"這可能尤其是經營用方面啦"},{"start":7787.29,"end":7789.29,"text":"我們這一次的重點"},{"start":7790.07,"end":7792.07,"text":"沒有辦法扮演中文角色"},{"start":7792.75,"end":7794.75,"text":"所以我覺得咧國防部咧"},{"start":7794.75,"end":7796.75,"text":"在這方面啦"},{"start":7796.75,"end":7798.75,"text":"應該要扮演中文角色"},{"start":7798.93,"end":7800.93,"text":"這個如果是經用載具的話"},{"start":7801.85,"end":7803.85,"text":"不是啊"},{"start":7803.85,"end":7805.85,"text":"個人的一個了解就可以完成的"},{"start":7805.85,"end":7807.85,"text":"他有很多的經驗"},{"start":7807.85,"end":7809.85,"text":"以及啊國外的技術的一個"},{"start":7809.85,"end":7811.85,"text":"殘酌啊"},{"start":7811.85,"end":7813.85,"text":"我覺得這方面可能是啊"},{"start":7813.85,"end":7815.85,"text":"現在相關單位啊"},{"start":7815.85,"end":7817.85,"text":"所報告裡面啊"},{"start":7817.85,"end":7819.85,"text":"有很多不足的地方"},{"start":7818.3,"end":7820.3,"text":"當然啦"},{"start":7819.42,"end":7821.42,"text":"也有一些學者提到"},{"start":7822.34,"end":7824.34,"text":"學者都在提到啊"},{"start":7824.34,"end":7826.34,"text":"說我們這個產協活作的事情"},{"start":7827.45,"end":7829.45,"text":"那麼產協活作"},{"start":7829.34,"end":7831.34,"text":"有兩種方法"},{"start":7830.82,"end":7832.82,"text":"一個是在國內的"},{"start":7832.78,"end":7834.78,"text":"學術界來合作"},{"start":7834.78,"end":7836.78,"text":"一個是在國外的"},{"start":7836.12,"end":7838.12,"text":"我倒覺得啦"},{"start":7837.68,"end":7839.68,"text":"這個"},{"start":7840.14,"end":7842.14,"text":"這麼樣的一個科技發展啊"},{"start":7843.02,"end":7845.02,"text":"為了我們國內的學術界啊"},{"start":7845.02,"end":7847.02,"text":"有更重要的一個發展機會啊"},{"start":7848.98,"end":7850.98,"text":"應該要教育部啊"},{"start":7850.98,"end":7852.98,"text":"也要扮演一個角色"},{"start":7852.98,"end":7854.98,"text":"教育部啊怎麼樣能夠"},{"start":7854.98,"end":7856.98,"text":"和我們相關單位啊"},{"start":7857.96,"end":7859.96,"text":"來配合使這個產協活作啊"},{"start":7859.96,"end":7861.96,"text":"真的揍揍起來"},{"start":7862.16,"end":7864.16,"text":"因為啊"},{"start":7863.43,"end":7865.43,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":7865.22,"end":7867.22,"text":"可能"},{"start":7868.08,"end":7870.08,"text":"並不是啊"},{"start":7869.64,"end":7871.64,"text":"使用在經用方面"},{"start":7872,"end":7874,"text":"在飛機用方面"},{"start":7874.55,"end":7876.55,"text":"那麼"},{"start":7875.54,"end":7877.54,"text":"更扮演的未來可能更重要角色的時候啊"},{"start":7877.54,"end":7879.54,"text":"教育部啊"},{"start":7880.08,"end":7882.08,"text":"就應該來這個從"},{"start":7882.08,"end":7884.08,"text":"甚至於從小學中學大學"},{"start":7884.08,"end":7886.08,"text":"都有相關的課程"},{"start":7886.58,"end":7888.58,"text":"使大家對這個方面的知識"},{"start":7888.58,"end":7890.58,"text":"能夠具備"},{"start":7890.49,"end":7892.49,"text":"而不是啊"},{"start":7892.49,"end":7894.49,"text":"一想到無人載具就想到戰爭"},{"start":7894.68,"end":7896.68,"text":"各位了解無人載具最重要"},{"start":7896.68,"end":7898.68,"text":"不是在做要用戰爭的"},{"start":7898.68,"end":7900.68,"text":"現在是因為大家看到"},{"start":7900.68,"end":7902.68,"text":"這個戰爭使用了"},{"start":7902.68,"end":7904.68,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":7904.68,"end":7906.68,"text":"事實上我們國內"},{"start":7906.42,"end":7908.42,"text":"早就在用"},{"start":7908.23,"end":7910.23,"text":"使用無人載具了"},{"start":7910.29,"end":7912.29,"text":"那我在內政部服務的時候"},{"start":7912.29,"end":7914.29,"text":"那就有在使用了"},{"start":7914.29,"end":7916.29,"text":"內政部當時就有在"},{"start":7916.29,"end":7918.29,"text":"有購置這個東西"},{"start":7918.59,"end":7920.59,"text":"也有回到大學也有買"},{"start":7920.33,"end":7922.33,"text":"所以說呢"},{"start":7922.33,"end":7924.33,"text":"這方面如果我們都能夠"},{"start":7924.33,"end":7926.33,"text":"從一個比較更廣泛的"},{"start":7926.33,"end":7928.33,"text":"真的是為了台灣的產業的發展"},{"start":7929.17,"end":7931.17,"text":"來思考的話"},{"start":7931.17,"end":7933.17,"text":"我覺得現在這個規定"},{"start":7933.07,"end":7935.07,"text":"應該啊"},{"start":7934.72,"end":7936.72,"text":"做更廣泛的了解"},{"start":7936.72,"end":7938.72,"text":"同時呢我是建議"},{"start":7938.72,"end":7940.72,"text":"用年度預算來"},{"start":7940.72,"end":7942.72,"text":"編列這樣的一個方式進行"},{"start":7942.72,"end":7944.72,"text":"謝謝各位"},{"start":7945.12,"end":7947.12,"text":"好謝謝季俊仁教授"},{"start":7947.12,"end":7949.12,"text":"陳萌教授問起"},{"start":7949.12,"end":7951.12,"text":"特別說明剛剛說到"},{"start":7951.12,"end":7953.12,"text":"因為各位與會手上"},{"start":7953.12,"end":7955.12,"text":"有的資料是只有四個版本"},{"start":7955.94,"end":7957.94,"text":"那剛剛主席這邊有說明"},{"start":7957.94,"end":7959.94,"text":"到昨天已經"},{"start":7959.94,"end":7961.94,"text":"通過富裕期交付本委員會的"},{"start":7961.94,"end":7963.94,"text":"還有九個版本"},{"start":7963.94,"end":7965.94,"text":"那在我手上"},{"start":7965.94,"end":7967.94,"text":"那由於呢在目前的網路上"},{"start":7967.94,"end":7969.94,"text":"在立法院已經有公開"},{"start":7969.94,"end":7971.94,"text":"不過可能不好找"},{"start":7971.94,"end":7973.94,"text":"那公報科呢會在明天之後"},{"start":7973.94,"end":7975.94,"text":"才會印成這樣報紙"},{"start":7975.94,"end":7977.94,"text":"彰型的"},{"start":7977.94,"end":7979.94,"text":"那目前我手上有的是"},{"start":7979.94,"end":7981.94,"text":"我們電腦列印的"},{"start":7981.94,"end":7983.94,"text":"由經濟委員提供的"},{"start":7983.94,"end":7985.94,"text":"那季委員"},{"start":7985.94,"end":7987.94,"text":"季老師關心到的本席的提案"},{"start":7987.94,"end":7989.94,"text":"是11022539號"},{"start":7991.73,"end":7993.73,"text":"條文內容一共有18條"},{"start":7993.73,"end":7995.73,"text":"不是只有7條"},{"start":7995.73,"end":7997.73,"text":"那包含了很多產業輔導的措施"},{"start":7997.73,"end":7999.73,"text":"也歡迎我們各位學者專家指教"},{"start":7999.73,"end":8001.73,"text":"那接下來我們就有請"},{"start":8001.73,"end":8003.73,"text":"李剛李教授請"},{"start":8011.74,"end":8013.74,"text":"主席還有在場"},{"start":8013.74,"end":8015.74,"text":"各位學者專家還有"},{"start":8015.74,"end":8017.74,"text":"各部會代表還有包括線上的"},{"start":8018.41,"end":8020.41,"text":"場觀學員的先進"},{"start":8020.41,"end":8022.41,"text":"大家好"},{"start":8021.31,"end":8023.31,"text":"我是台大無人載具研發設計中心的主任"},{"start":8023.31,"end":8025.31,"text":"我是第二任的主任"},{"start":8025.31,"end":8027.31,"text":"李剛"},{"start":8027.31,"end":8029.31,"text":"那我在我們五六年前"},{"start":8029.31,"end":8031.31,"text":"台大有三個學院"},{"start":8031.31,"end":8033.31,"text":"共同支持"},{"start":8033.31,"end":8035.31,"text":"就是成立這個學院"},{"start":8035.31,"end":8037.31,"text":"那包括電子學院"},{"start":8037.31,"end":8039.31,"text":"工學院跟森榮學院"},{"start":8039.31,"end":8041.31,"text":"那成如前面幾位學者提到"},{"start":8041.31,"end":8043.31,"text":"其實無人載具的應用"},{"start":8043.31,"end":8045.31,"text":"我們現在指的是Odomen"},{"start":8045.31,"end":8047.31,"text":"海陸空水上水下"},{"start":8047.31,"end":8049.31,"text":"甚至陸上"},{"start":8049.31,"end":8051.31,"text":"我們看到室內室外的無人載具"},{"start":8051.31,"end":8053.31,"text":"有各種樣態"},{"start":8053.31,"end":8055.31,"text":"那這個無人載具的時代我們可以說"},{"start":8055.31,"end":8057.31,"text":"Autonomous machine的時代才剛剛開始"},{"start":8057.31,"end":8063.31,"text":"但是今天我們要討論的主要主題是跟國防相關"},{"start":8064.14,"end":8068.14,"text":"我這邊也收集了大概我們中心學者"},{"start":8068.14,"end":8070.14,"text":"專家還有業界"},{"start":8070.14,"end":8072.14,"text":"還有包括我們海外的一些"},{"start":8072.14,"end":8074.14,"text":"包括院士的一些建議"},{"start":8074.85,"end":8078.85,"text":"我們也希望說朝野能夠針對這個國防安全"},{"start":8078.85,"end":8080.85,"text":"我們這個進軍"},{"start":8080.85,"end":8082.85,"text":"這個國安這個議題"},{"start":8082.85,"end":8084.85,"text":"是不能夠等待的"},{"start":8084.85,"end":8086.85,"text":"那我們也不希望在"},{"start":8086.85,"end":8088.85,"text":"這整個轉型的過程"},{"start":8088.85,"end":8090.85,"text":"我們可以把這個無人載具"},{"start":8090.85,"end":8092.85,"text":"在戰場上應用"},{"start":8092.85,"end":8094.85,"text":"也可以當作是一個數位轉型"},{"start":8094.85,"end":8096.85,"text":"那我個人在二十多年前"},{"start":8096.85,"end":8098.85,"text":"在美國另一個研究所的時候"},{"start":8098.85,"end":8100.85,"text":"其實我們的實驗室就已經跟美國軍方合作"},{"start":8100.85,"end":8102.85,"text":"當時包括美國海軍的Hunting Project"},{"start":8102.85,"end":8104.85,"text":"就是在做我們現在講的這個風群戰術"},{"start":8104.85,"end":8106.85,"text":"那這個可以看得到就是說"},{"start":8106.85,"end":8110.85,"text":"在像美國這樣的一些比較軍工產業完整的國家"},{"start":8110.85,"end":8112.85,"text":"其實它有一些條件"},{"start":8112.85,"end":8114.85,"text":"它能夠讓學術界跟產業界能夠合作"},{"start":8114.85,"end":8116.85,"text":"然後把一些戰術戰略"},{"start":8116.85,"end":8120.85,"text":"甚至基本的一些model能夠很早就開始建立"},{"start":8120.85,"end":8122.85,"text":"但是我們現在面對的問題"},{"start":8122.85,"end":8124.85,"text":"是非常嚴肅很嚴峻"},{"start":8124.85,"end":8126.85,"text":"因為兩年多前"},{"start":8126.85,"end":8128.85,"text":"我在美國的軍事戰略上"},{"start":8128.85,"end":8130.85,"text":"讓我到五角大下去"},{"start":8130.85,"end":8132.85,"text":"進一步跟他們就我們的科技產業"},{"start":8132.85,"end":8134.85,"text":"還有我們整個台灣"},{"start":8134.85,"end":8136.85,"text":"包括現在所處在的這個"},{"start":8136.85,"end":8138.85,"text":"第一島鏈的情況"},{"start":8138.85,"end":8140.85,"text":"我們做一些交換意見"},{"start":8140.85,"end":8142.85,"text":"當然美方最重視就是台灣的高科技"},{"start":8142.85,"end":8144.85,"text":"包括AI晶片供電"},{"start":8144.85,"end":8146.85,"text":"因為現在台灣"},{"start":8146.85,"end":8148.85,"text":"我們的台積電是戶口生產"},{"start":8148.85,"end":8150.85,"text":"但是整個上中下游產業"},{"start":8150.85,"end":8152.85,"text":"產業鏈非常的大"},{"start":8152.85,"end":8154.85,"text":"大概上千家"},{"start":8154.85,"end":8156.85,"text":"所以我們現在的產業鏈"},{"start":8156.85,"end":8158.85,"text":"產業鏈非常的大"},{"start":8158.85,"end":8160.85,"text":"大概上千家的公司"},{"start":8160.85,"end":8162.85,"text":"要移轉這供電到海外"},{"start":8162.85,"end":8164.85,"text":"這個其實已經是一個趨勢"},{"start":8164.85,"end":8166.85,"text":"也就是台灣要面臨一個問題"},{"start":8166.85,"end":8168.85,"text":"就是我們怎麼樣把我們的製造力"},{"start":8168.85,"end":8170.85,"text":"延伸到"},{"start":8170.85,"end":8172.85,"text":"包括美國日本歐洲或是所謂"},{"start":8172.85,"end":8174.85,"text":"民主的盟邦"},{"start":8174.85,"end":8176.85,"text":"我們要建立民主供電"},{"start":8176.85,"end":8178.85,"text":"特別是我們現在提的是"},{"start":8178.85,"end":8180.85,"text":"due use"},{"start":8180.85,"end":8182.85,"text":"可以做軍用也可以做成民用"},{"start":8182.85,"end":8184.85,"text":"可以做農業做工業做各種應用"},{"start":8184.85,"end":8186.85,"text":"這個是台灣絕對可以跟國際上"},{"start":8186.85,"end":8188.85,"text":"民主盟邦做的"},{"start":8188.85,"end":8190.85,"text":"一個大開大合的一個"},{"start":8190.85,"end":8192.85,"text":"新的產業可以是新的造園產業"},{"start":8192.85,"end":8194.85,"text":"所以我可以大膽的說其實現在"},{"start":8194.85,"end":8196.85,"text":"國防不明的問題跟"},{"start":8196.85,"end":8198.85,"text":"經濟部其實我覺得"},{"start":8198.85,"end":8200.85,"text":"現在朝野在提的版本"},{"start":8200.85,"end":8202.85,"text":"其實都有優點跟缺點"},{"start":8202.85,"end":8204.85,"text":"那我建議如果是能夠採用"},{"start":8204.85,"end":8206.85,"text":"雙軌的方式"},{"start":8206.85,"end":8208.85,"text":"也就是科技發展產業發展"},{"start":8208.85,"end":8210.85,"text":"最好是由經濟部"},{"start":8210.85,"end":8212.85,"text":"跟其他比如說國科會其他相關"},{"start":8212.85,"end":8214.85,"text":"經濟部會一起合作"},{"start":8214.75,"end":8216.75,"text":"戰力的這個建立"},{"start":8216.75,"end":8218.75,"text":"怎麼樣建軍備戰"},{"start":8218.75,"end":8220.75,"text":"怎麼樣導入無人載具"},{"start":8220.75,"end":8222.75,"text":"來在我們的這個"},{"start":8222.75,"end":8224.75,"text":"陸海空甚至水上水下"},{"start":8224.75,"end":8226.75,"text":"有形成有效嚇阻的"},{"start":8226.75,"end":8228.75,"text":"這個力量這個應該是由"},{"start":8228.75,"end":8230.75,"text":"國防部來主導但是國防部"},{"start":8230.75,"end":8232.75,"text":"怎麼跟其他部位合作"},{"start":8232.75,"end":8234.75,"text":"坦白講我們國家"},{"start":8234.75,"end":8236.75,"text":"推動無人機到現在已經不是"},{"start":8236.75,"end":8238.75,"text":"兩年三年從小英時代就開始"},{"start":8238.75,"end":8240.75,"text":"目前我沒有看到很清楚"},{"start":8240.75,"end":8242.75,"text":"部會之間怎麼協同"},{"start":8242.75,"end":8244.75,"text":"合作其實我有看到中嘉濱"},{"start":8244.75,"end":8246.75,"text":"委員提的版本其實是希望"},{"start":8246.75,"end":8248.75,"text":"在行政院成績"},{"start":8248.75,"end":8250.75,"text":"也能夠有一個跨部會協調"},{"start":8250.75,"end":8252.75,"text":"的一個機制也就是在行政"},{"start":8252.75,"end":8254.75,"text":"會成立一個無人載具的一個委員會"},{"start":8254.75,"end":8256.75,"text":"那這委員會基本上"},{"start":8256.75,"end":8258.75,"text":"也是在督導同時做資源"},{"start":8258.75,"end":8260.75,"text":"的一個整合做互補"},{"start":8260.75,"end":8262.75,"text":"怎麼樣循序漸進把國軍"},{"start":8262.75,"end":8264.75,"text":"所需要的這個建制"},{"start":8264.75,"end":8266.75,"text":"的這個嚇阻的這個"},{"start":8266.75,"end":8268.75,"text":"不對稱作戰的能力"},{"start":8268.75,"end":8270.75,"text":"能量能夠建立大家"},{"start":8270.75,"end":8272.75,"text":"要知道對照現在"},{"start":8272.75,"end":8274.75,"text":"戰爭或是伊朗跟美國的戰爭"},{"start":8274.75,"end":8276.75,"text":"你可以看到不對稱的"},{"start":8276.75,"end":8278.75,"text":"作戰其實就不對稱的經濟消耗"},{"start":8278.75,"end":8280.75,"text":"戰坦白講美國"},{"start":8280.75,"end":8282.75,"text":"現在自己都發現"},{"start":8282.75,"end":8284.75,"text":"他本國製造的無人"},{"start":8284.75,"end":8286.75,"text":"載具都太昂貴了所以美國"},{"start":8286.75,"end":8288.75,"text":"現在有一個戰爭部在推動"},{"start":8288.75,"end":8290.75,"text":"的所謂的Dron Dominus"},{"start":8290.75,"end":8292.75,"text":"他其實是有條件把"},{"start":8292.75,"end":8294.75,"text":"這個廠商的做選商從"},{"start":8294.75,"end":8296.75,"text":"25家賽到11家"},{"start":8296.75,"end":8298.75,"text":"接下來賽到5家他已經把"},{"start":8298.75,"end":8300.75,"text":"他最終的目標價格都已經"},{"start":8301.2,"end":8303.2,"text":"已經訂出來了就大概在3000"},{"start":8303.2,"end":8305.2,"text":"到5000美金但是像量"},{"start":8305.2,"end":8307.2,"text":"質型態的狀其實是比較"},{"start":8307.2,"end":8309.2,"text":"屬於中小型比較是"},{"start":8309.2,"end":8311.2,"text":"屬於可能是基層連隊"},{"start":8311.2,"end":8313.2,"text":"在用還沒有到戰術層級的"},{"start":8313.2,"end":8315.2,"text":"所以就是說要分級分類"},{"start":8315.2,"end":8317.2,"text":"我們要推動所謂去"},{"start":8317.2,"end":8319.2,"text":"紅宮面其實也要分類"},{"start":8319.2,"end":8321.2,"text":"分級坦白講目前我沒有看到"},{"start":8321.2,"end":8323.2,"text":"我們中央有一個很清楚"},{"start":8323.2,"end":8325.2,"text":"的戰略藍圖到底"},{"start":8325.2,"end":8327.2,"text":"哪一些零件"},{"start":8327.2,"end":8329.2,"text":"模組到系統吃系統"},{"start":8330.1,"end":8332.1,"text":"並不是全部電子業這也要提醒"},{"start":8332.1,"end":8334.1,"text":"經濟部我聽過"},{"start":8334.1,"end":8336.1,"text":"好幾次說我們的長官說"},{"start":8336.1,"end":8338.1,"text":"無人機產業就是電子也是上"},{"start":8338.1,"end":8340.1,"text":"我有非常大的Question Mark"},{"start":8340.1,"end":8342.1,"text":"無人機從低空中高空"},{"start":8342.1,"end":8344.1,"text":"高高空到平流成無人機"},{"start":8344.1,"end":8346.1,"text":"甚至到外太空其實"},{"start":8346.1,"end":8348.1,"text":"也是一種無人機現在"},{"start":8348.1,"end":8350.1,"text":"美美國跟中國甚至日本"},{"start":8350.1,"end":8352.1,"text":"其實都積極發展太空"},{"start":8352.1,"end":8354.1,"text":"好這個戰略所以我們現在"},{"start":8354.1,"end":8356.1,"text":"臺灣最重要是從供應鏈怎麼"},{"start":8356.1,"end":8358.1,"text":"從民主供應鏈切入當然"},{"start":8358.1,"end":8360.1,"text":"除了經電以外我認為"},{"start":8360.1,"end":8362.1,"text":"其實臺灣還有很好的是我們的中南部"},{"start":8362.1,"end":8364.1,"text":"傳產製造業"},{"start":8364.1,"end":8366.1,"text":"我們也跟中南部的傳產"},{"start":8366.1,"end":8368.1,"text":"交流其實"},{"start":8368.1,"end":8370.1,"text":"美國也很缺"},{"start":8370.1,"end":8372.1,"text":"因為美國的製造業出走已經40年了"},{"start":8372.1,"end":8374.1,"text":"甚至可以跟各位報告"},{"start":8374.1,"end":8376.1,"text":"美國已經40年沒有"},{"start":8376.1,"end":8378.1,"text":"生產500cc以下的引擎"},{"start":8378.43,"end":8380.43,"text":"但是各位知道伊朗現在"},{"start":8380.43,"end":8382.43,"text":"用一台3萬到2萬美金的"},{"start":8382.43,"end":8384.43,"text":"小海無人機它需要"},{"start":8384.43,"end":8386.43,"text":"就是這個充壓引擎"},{"start":8386.43,"end":8388.43,"text":"俄羅斯跟烏克蘭也是他們的"},{"start":8388.43,"end":8390.43,"text":"這個小海這樣子形式的"},{"start":8390.43,"end":8392.43,"text":"無人機可以飛到1500公里"},{"start":8393.44,"end":8395.44,"text":"但是其實臺灣已經有廠商在"},{"start":8395.44,"end":8397.44,"text":"生產製造但是他們缺的是什麼"},{"start":8397.44,"end":8399.44,"text":"整合因為臺灣的廠商"},{"start":8399.44,"end":8401.44,"text":"只會做充壓件鑄造"},{"start":8402.08,"end":8404.08,"text":"他沒有辦法做什麼EFI"},{"start":8404.08,"end":8406.08,"text":"做電子噴油控制零組件"},{"start":8406.08,"end":8408.08,"text":"那我們的能力做不到嗎"},{"start":8408.08,"end":8410.08,"text":"事實上做到但是我們的電子大廠"},{"start":8410.08,"end":8412.08,"text":"不願意投入當然除了"},{"start":8412.08,"end":8414.08,"text":"一個是他們看不到有一個長期的"},{"start":8414.08,"end":8416.08,"text":"可以有"},{"start":8416.08,"end":8418.08,"text":"一個量產當然"},{"start":8418.08,"end":8420.08,"text":"他們看到的是甚至還有"},{"start":8420.08,"end":8422.08,"text":"對岸的施壓所以我們的"},{"start":8422.08,"end":8424.08,"text":"電子5個6個目前"},{"start":8424.08,"end":8426.08,"text":"AI產業非常蓬勃"},{"start":8426.08,"end":8428.08,"text":"發展其實因為政治因素"},{"start":8428.08,"end":8430.08,"text":"他不敢跳到臺前"},{"start":8430.08,"end":8432.08,"text":"所以我建議各位就說我們應該要有一個"},{"start":8432.08,"end":8434.08,"text":"戰略的思維那一起來"},{"start":8434.08,"end":8436.08,"text":"推動這個所謂的Dual Use"},{"start":8436.08,"end":8438.08,"text":"這樣子的一個"},{"start":8438.08,"end":8440.08,"text":"Odomain的Omnain的Veicle的"},{"start":8440.08,"end":8442.08,"text":"一個產業那我們另外"},{"start":8442.08,"end":8444.08,"text":"針對這個學者專家或是"},{"start":8444.08,"end":8446.08,"text":"海內外人才我建議剛剛也有"},{"start":8446.08,"end":8448.08,"text":"提到這個安全"},{"start":8448.08,"end":8450.08,"text":"的問題因為我們臺灣必須變成"},{"start":8450.08,"end":8452.08,"text":"是國際民主盟邦可信賴的"},{"start":8452.08,"end":8454.08,"text":"的一個夥伴"},{"start":8454.08,"end":8456.08,"text":"我們是可以Trust的"},{"start":8456.08,"end":8458.08,"text":"我建議國內"},{"start":8458.08,"end":8460.08,"text":"不要用一刀切的方式"},{"start":8460.08,"end":8462.08,"text":"不要因為說你這是海外的院士"},{"start":8462.08,"end":8464.08,"text":"所以你不讓他進來事實上我們中心"},{"start":8464.08,"end":8466.08,"text":"也找了兩位在美國參與"},{"start":8466.08,"end":8468.08,"text":"美國無人機標準"},{"start":8468.08,"end":8470.08,"text":"制定的學者包括"},{"start":8470.08,"end":8472.08,"text":"院士但是他們就說"},{"start":8472.08,"end":8474.08,"text":"我們中科院這邊過去"},{"start":8474.08,"end":8476.08,"text":"也不歡迎他們因為他們有美國級"},{"start":8476.08,"end":8478.08,"text":"所以我們應該學美國用"},{"start":8478.08,"end":8480.08,"text":"Security clearance分級的方式"},{"start":8480.08,"end":8482.08,"text":"來做另外在我們提到"},{"start":8482.08,"end":8484.08,"text":"現在各"},{"start":8484.08,"end":8486.08,"text":"黨派當然都同意我們"},{"start":8486.08,"end":8488.08,"text":"我們也需要無人載具我們也需要"},{"start":8488.08,"end":8490.08,"text":"有國防現在不是"},{"start":8490.08,"end":8492.08,"text":"買不買的問題是怎麼執行"},{"start":8492.08,"end":8494.08,"text":"的問題所以我剛剛提到我們"},{"start":8494.08,"end":8496.08,"text":"應該考慮比較大"},{"start":8496.08,"end":8498.08,"text":"膽建議是把特別"},{"start":8498.08,"end":8500.08,"text":"採購預算跟我們要"},{"start":8500.08,"end":8502.08,"text":"做中長期國際化科技發展"},{"start":8502.08,"end":8504.08,"text":"的一般的年度預算應該"},{"start":8504.08,"end":8506.08,"text":"要並行那我們應該"},{"start":8506.08,"end":8508.08,"text":"成立一個跨黨派的無人載具"},{"start":8508.08,"end":8510.08,"text":"的國家發展的監督委員會"},{"start":8510.08,"end":8512.08,"text":"這裡面包含納入軍方"},{"start":8512.08,"end":8514.08,"text":"的背景可能是現役可能是退役"},{"start":8514.08,"end":8516.08,"text":"有產業界專家還有學界"},{"start":8516.08,"end":8518.08,"text":"那每年一起來"},{"start":8518.08,"end":8520.08,"text":"針對這個這個"},{"start":8520.08,"end":8522.08,"text":"目前的發展的進度成果"},{"start":8522.08,"end":8524.08,"text":"來進行討論跟檢視"},{"start":8524.08,"end":8526.08,"text":"同時應該制定一個"},{"start":8526.08,"end":8528.08,"text":"中長期十到二十年的"},{"start":8528.08,"end":8530.08,"text":"國家的戰略藍圖"},{"start":8530.08,"end":8532.08,"text":"因為大家要知道過去台灣從PC產業"},{"start":8532.08,"end":8534.08,"text":"到智慧手機產業"},{"start":8534.08,"end":8536.08,"text":"其實過去台灣也有機車"},{"start":8536.08,"end":8538.08,"text":"王國的這樣的美譽甚至"},{"start":8538.08,"end":8540.08,"text":"各位知道嗎台灣的摩托車"},{"start":8540.08,"end":8542.08,"text":"現在在歐洲現在是稱霸"},{"start":8542.08,"end":8544.08,"text":"比義大利做的還要好這裡面"},{"start":8544.08,"end":8546.08,"text":"我們看到無人載具也是需要"},{"start":8546.08,"end":8548.08,"text":"動力系統不是只有AI就可以了"},{"start":8548.08,"end":8550.08,"text":"事實上整個台灣應該"},{"start":8550.08,"end":8552.08,"text":"是一個company台灣"},{"start":8552.08,"end":8554.08,"text":"不只是只有嘉義台南"},{"start":8554.08,"end":8556.08,"text":"做無人載具事實上"},{"start":8556.08,"end":8558.08,"text":"高雄也可以做無人船屏東也可以做"},{"start":8558.08,"end":8560.08,"text":"無人船水上水下"},{"start":8560.08,"end":8562.08,"text":"我們中部的機密機械"},{"start":8562.08,"end":8564.08,"text":"加工製造其實這個"},{"start":8564.08,"end":8566.08,"text":"能量是我們過去兩年"},{"start":8566.08,"end":8568.08,"text":"都還跟美方包括美國的許多"},{"start":8568.08,"end":8570.08,"text":"新創公司合作我發現"},{"start":8570.08,"end":8572.08,"text":"美國的新創公司最大的痛點是什麼"},{"start":8572.08,"end":8574.08,"text":"他們不懂量產"},{"start":8574.32,"end":8576.32,"text":"他們沒有Mass production的經驗"},{"start":8576.32,"end":8578.32,"text":"沒有工廠經驗"},{"start":8578.32,"end":8580.32,"text":"他們的CEO很多是什麼LIT的"},{"start":8580.32,"end":8582.32,"text":"PhD也有大學教授"},{"start":8582.32,"end":8584.32,"text":"他跟我說他沒有帶過工廠"},{"start":8584.32,"end":8586.32,"text":"所以design manufacturing是他們不會的"},{"start":8586.32,"end":8588.32,"text":"反而是我們找到台灣的專家"},{"start":8588.32,"end":8590.32,"text":"業界專家來協助他們"},{"start":8590.32,"end":8592.32,"text":"把量產性做到"},{"start":8592.32,"end":8594.32,"text":"因為現在美國的建軍備戰"},{"start":8594.32,"end":8596.32,"text":"現在針對無人載具也是要模組化"},{"start":8596.32,"end":8598.32,"text":"而且做到可準消耗品質"},{"start":8599.4,"end":8601.4,"text":"也就是要不斷的做迭代"},{"start":8601.4,"end":8603.4,"text":"但是他們也希望說能夠納入"},{"start":8603.4,"end":8605.4,"text":"更多的supply chain不是只有美國"},{"start":8605.4,"end":8607.4,"text":"因為美國本土的製造"},{"start":8607.4,"end":8609.4,"text":"沒有辦法滿足他自己的需要"},{"start":8609.4,"end":8611.4,"text":"還有他賣給盟邦的"},{"start":8611.4,"end":8613.4,"text":"這個OCC系統這樣的供應"},{"start":8613.4,"end":8615.4,"text":"以上跟各位報告"},{"start":8617.57,"end":8621.57,"text":"好非常謝謝李剛教授的精彩的說明"},{"start":8621.57,"end":8623.57,"text":"因為我們人數眾多"},{"start":8623.57,"end":8625.57,"text":"我們不採取正式的休息"},{"start":8625.57,"end":8627.57,"text":"如果與會的列席機關代表"},{"start":8627.57,"end":8629.57,"text":"需要有身體需求就自己去"},{"start":8629.57,"end":8631.57,"text":"那我們接下來有請"},{"start":8631.57,"end":8633.57,"text":"第九位的李東森總經理"},{"start":8633.57,"end":8635.57,"text":"洪森科技請"},{"start":8652.57,"end":8654.57,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":8654.57,"end":8656.57,"text":"謝謝各位委員"},{"start":8656.57,"end":8658.57,"text":"今天的時間以及各位先進"},{"start":8658.57,"end":8660.57,"text":"大家好我是洪森科技總經理李東森"},{"start":8660.57,"end":8662.57,"text":"那我們公司"},{"start":8662.57,"end":8664.57,"text":"主要是做"},{"start":8664.57,"end":8666.57,"text":"無人載具的電源"},{"start":8666.57,"end":8668.57,"text":"電池充電器這一類"},{"start":8668.57,"end":8670.57,"text":"的一些產品開發"},{"start":8671.79,"end":8673.79,"text":"那關於"},{"start":8673.79,"end":8675.79,"text":"我們今天所提到的這部分"},{"start":8675.79,"end":8677.79,"text":"我們大概猜四個部分來提"},{"start":8677.79,"end":8679.79,"text":"一個是研發部分的"},{"start":8679.79,"end":8681.79,"text":"一些補助"},{"start":8681.79,"end":8683.79,"text":"然後第二個部分是關於"},{"start":8683.79,"end":8685.79,"text":"我們的認證上面的法規"},{"start":8685.79,"end":8687.79,"text":"第三個是市場的部分"},{"start":8687.79,"end":8689.79,"text":"第四個是我們後面怎麼"},{"start":8689.79,"end":8691.79,"text":"一些其他"},{"start":8691.79,"end":8693.79,"text":"在人才跟風險上的配套"},{"start":8693.79,"end":8695.79,"text":"我大概分這四點來說明"},{"start":8695.74,"end":8697.74,"text":"第一點就是說"},{"start":8697.74,"end":8699.74,"text":"因為其實在我們一些預算"},{"start":8699.74,"end":8701.74,"text":"執行的時候"},{"start":8701.74,"end":8703.74,"text":"我們公司屬於中小企業"},{"start":8703.57,"end":8705.57,"text":"那其實在一個產業在發展的時候"},{"start":8705.57,"end":8707.57,"text":"前期我們需要很大量的資金的投入"},{"start":8707.57,"end":8709.57,"text":"但是投入完之後"},{"start":8709.57,"end":8711.57,"text":"就如同"},{"start":8711.57,"end":8713.57,"text":"之前的一些"},{"start":8713.57,"end":8715.57,"text":"委員的"},{"start":8715.26,"end":8717.26,"text":"就是說我們產品開發好"},{"start":8717.26,"end":8719.26,"text":"到量產"},{"start":8719.26,"end":8721.26,"text":"它會需要一個穩定的訂單"},{"start":8721.26,"end":8723.26,"text":"所以前面要比較大金額投入"},{"start":8723.26,"end":8725.26,"text":"到後面是需要一個穩定訂單"},{"start":8725.26,"end":8727.26,"text":"所以我們在預算上的部分的編列"},{"start":8727.26,"end":8729.26,"text":"可能是前面"},{"start":8729.26,"end":8731.26,"text":"就要有個計劃性的"},{"start":8731.26,"end":8733.26,"text":"做法"},{"start":8733.26,"end":8735.26,"text":"因為對企業來講我們會更需要的是"},{"start":8735.26,"end":8737.26,"text":"一個可預期的"},{"start":8737.26,"end":8739.26,"text":"可預期的政策"},{"start":8739.51,"end":8741.51,"text":"不管它是金額多的高或低"},{"start":8741.51,"end":8743.51,"text":"它必須是要可預期的"},{"start":8743.51,"end":8745.51,"text":"因為這樣子我們在企業的投入"},{"start":8745.51,"end":8747.51,"text":"才會有一個計劃的執行"},{"start":8750.19,"end":8752.19,"text":"第二個部分就是說"},{"start":8752.19,"end":8754.19,"text":"預算出來之後"},{"start":8754.19,"end":8756.19,"text":"在執行的時候"},{"start":8756.19,"end":8758.19,"text":"比如說我們會去申請一些研發補助"},{"start":8758.19,"end":8760.19,"text":"在研發補助的部分"},{"start":8760.19,"end":8762.19,"text":"我們以目前的"},{"start":8762.19,"end":8764.19,"text":"比如說像SBR或者是一些其他的"},{"start":8764.19,"end":8766.19,"text":"一些計劃的"},{"start":8766.19,"end":8768.19,"text":"核銷申報的項目"},{"start":8768.19,"end":8770.19,"text":"我遇到的實際的情形就是說"},{"start":8770.19,"end":8772.19,"text":"比如說它可能最高"},{"start":8772.19,"end":8774.19,"text":"就是提供你50%"},{"start":8774.19,"end":8776.19,"text":"的一個"},{"start":8777.26,"end":8779.26,"text":"補助"},{"start":8779.26,"end":8781.26,"text":"但實際上你真的拿到手的只剩30%或40%"},{"start":8781.26,"end":8783.26,"text":"那其實對於我們"},{"start":8783.26,"end":8785.26,"text":"一些開發的廠商來講的話"},{"start":8785.26,"end":8787.26,"text":"其實這個補助款對我們來講"},{"start":8787.26,"end":8789.26,"text":"其實並不多"},{"start":8789.26,"end":8791.26,"text":"那有時候我們會覺得說"},{"start":8791.8,"end":8793.8,"text":"我花這麼多時間"},{"start":8793.8,"end":8795.8,"text":"人力去申請這個"},{"start":8795.8,"end":8797.8,"text":"我預期會是不是多接幾個案子"},{"start":8797.8,"end":8799.8,"text":"那這樣就有點失去了這個"},{"start":8799.8,"end":8801.8,"text":"預算執行落地的"},{"start":8801.8,"end":8803.8,"text":"一個效益"},{"start":8804.01,"end":8806.01,"text":"然後我想這"},{"start":8806.45,"end":8808.45,"text":"部分還有另外一個點就是說"},{"start":8808.45,"end":8810.45,"text":"裡面有太多的一些"},{"start":8810.45,"end":8812.45,"text":"可查"},{"start":8812.78,"end":8814.78,"text":"那麼我們就這樣"},{"start":8815.13,"end":8817.13,"text":"就是可以申請的跟不能申請的項目"},{"start":8817.13,"end":8819.13,"text":"那有一些"},{"start":8818.79,"end":8820.79,"text":"有一些其實它是屬於研發類的開支"},{"start":8820.79,"end":8822.79,"text":"但是沒有辦法"},{"start":8822.79,"end":8824.79,"text":"被編列進去"},{"start":8824.79,"end":8826.79,"text":"那有一些東西會變成說我實際上執行的時候"},{"start":8826.8,"end":8828.8,"text":"可以真正獲得"},{"start":8828.8,"end":8830.8,"text":"我在開發過程中我實際上可以獲得的補助"},{"start":8830.8,"end":8832.8,"text":"其實比想像中的又更少"},{"start":8833.98,"end":8835.98,"text":"那第三個部分我想提的就是說"},{"start":8835.98,"end":8837.98,"text":"我們實際上在執行這些"},{"start":8840.03,"end":8842.03,"text":"計畫補助申請的過程中"},{"start":8842.03,"end":8844.03,"text":"會遇到一個情形就是說"},{"start":8844.03,"end":8846.03,"text":"因為審查委員基本上都是大學的教授居多"},{"start":8846.03,"end":8848.03,"text":"那當然"},{"start":8848.03,"end":8850.03,"text":"給予的一些方向跟建議很好"},{"start":8850.03,"end":8852.03,"text":"但是有時候我們產業所需要"},{"start":8852.03,"end":8854.03,"text":"發展的方向"},{"start":8854.03,"end":8856.03,"text":"它比較偏向市場面的需求"},{"start":8856.03,"end":8858.03,"text":"不見得一定是"},{"start":8858.83,"end":8860.83,"text":"特別像是有點像類似在寫論文的方式去進行"},{"start":8863.3,"end":8865.3,"text":"或許他的"},{"start":8865.7,"end":8867.7,"text":"這種技術創新性"},{"start":8867.7,"end":8869.7,"text":"不見得是完全是符合"},{"start":8869.7,"end":8871.7,"text":"寫一個碩士論文的概念"},{"start":8871.7,"end":8873.7,"text":"或博士論文的概念"},{"start":8873.7,"end":8875.7,"text":"但是他卻是市場所需要的東西"},{"start":8875.7,"end":8877.7,"text":"那我會覺得說有時候我們在"},{"start":8877.7,"end":8879.7,"text":"進行這部分的"},{"start":8879.7,"end":8881.7,"text":"一些申請的時候"},{"start":8881.7,"end":8883.7,"text":"會遇到一些這樣的一個挑戰"},{"start":8884.9,"end":8886.9,"text":"然後變成說其實新創企業想要去"},{"start":8886.9,"end":8888.9,"text":"獲得這些補助"},{"start":8888.9,"end":8890.9,"text":"其實意願會降低"},{"start":8891.03,"end":8893.03,"text":"好,那這是第一個部分"},{"start":8893.03,"end":8895.03,"text":"第二個部分就是說我們在實際上"},{"start":8895.03,"end":8897.03,"text":"產品,比如說我們電池"},{"start":8897.03,"end":8899.03,"text":"我們電池有一個認證"},{"start":8899.03,"end":8901.03,"text":"叫62133"},{"start":8901.03,"end":8903.03,"text":"那這個認證其實是在地面"},{"start":8903.03,"end":8905.03,"text":"或者是一些"},{"start":8905.04,"end":8907.04,"text":"其他宅宅具類的"},{"start":8907.65,"end":8909.65,"text":"認證會比較適合,但是在無人機上面的話"},{"start":8909.65,"end":8911.65,"text":"他某些特別的應用"},{"start":8911.65,"end":8913.65,"text":"其實不見得這麼適合"},{"start":8913.65,"end":8915.65,"text":"我想也許水上"},{"start":8915.62,"end":8917.62,"text":"的設備不曉得有沒有這樣的困難"},{"start":8917.62,"end":8919.62,"text":"就是他其實是不能停機的"},{"start":8919.62,"end":8921.62,"text":"再怎麼樣狀況都不能停機"},{"start":8921.62,"end":8923.62,"text":"但是因為受到法規的"},{"start":8923.62,"end":8925.62,"text":"限制,你要去申請這個"},{"start":8925.62,"end":8927.62,"text":"那實際上就遇到另外一個困難"},{"start":8927.62,"end":8929.62,"text":"就是這不是我要的"},{"start":8929.62,"end":8931.62,"text":"可是我又得申請"},{"start":8931.62,"end":8933.62,"text":"那你就要花這筆錢,那花這筆錢"},{"start":8933.62,"end":8935.62,"text":"實際上客人也不見得要,但是就是法規要"},{"start":8935.62,"end":8937.62,"text":"那就變成做一個表面"},{"start":8939.44,"end":8941.44,"text":"那我覺得這樣就有點失去了"},{"start":8941.44,"end":8943.44,"text":"這個做產品適合"},{"start":8943.44,"end":8945.44,"text":"因為我們申請認證一定是要"},{"start":8946.11,"end":8948.11,"text":"認證是法規,法規一定要符合市場要的"},{"start":8948.11,"end":8950.11,"text":"市場不要的東西的時候認證存在的必要性"},{"start":8950.11,"end":8952.11,"text":"是什麼,所以我是覺得"},{"start":8952.11,"end":8954.11,"text":"這個可能需要有一個"},{"start":8954.11,"end":8956.11,"text":"更好的一個配套的做法"},{"start":8956.11,"end":8958.11,"text":"來符合這些宅具類"},{"start":8958.11,"end":8960.11,"text":"無人宅具類所需要"},{"start":8961.36,"end":8963.36,"text":"所需要符合的一些"},{"start":8963.36,"end":8965.36,"text":"認證跟標準"},{"start":8965.36,"end":8967.36,"text":"因為畢竟他無人嘛"},{"start":8968.52,"end":8970.52,"text":"他沒有要載人"},{"start":8970.52,"end":8972.52,"text":"那他所遇到的困難就會是"},{"start":8972.35,"end":8974.35,"text":"跟一般的"},{"start":8974.35,"end":8976.35,"text":"其他宅具類的困難"},{"start":8976.35,"end":8978.35,"text":"是不一樣的,這是第二點"},{"start":8979.15,"end":8981.15,"text":"第三點的部分我想提到就是說"},{"start":8981.15,"end":8983.15,"text":"在市場情銷上"},{"start":8983.91,"end":8985.91,"text":"那其實我們可以看到"},{"start":8985.91,"end":8987.91,"text":"歷年來不管是GPS"},{"start":8987.91,"end":8991.91,"text":"或者是一些技術性的產品"},{"start":8991.91,"end":8993.91,"text":"他都是從一剛開始從國防的市場"},{"start":8993.91,"end":8995.91,"text":"慢慢走向民生"},{"start":8995.91,"end":8997.91,"text":"慢慢走向商用,走向民生"},{"start":8998.76,"end":9000.76,"text":"那其實以國防市場來講"},{"start":9000.76,"end":9002.76,"text":"對我們業者的觀點是"},{"start":9002.76,"end":9004.76,"text":"我不能代表所有"},{"start":9004.76,"end":9006.76,"text":"業者,我的觀點是"},{"start":9006.76,"end":9008.76,"text":"就是說"},{"start":9009.66,"end":9011.66,"text":"有"},{"start":9011.42,"end":9013.42,"text":"畢竟"},{"start":9014.34,"end":9016.34,"text":"做一個無人機好了"},{"start":9016.34,"end":9018.34,"text":"無人機你可能說好"},{"start":9018.34,"end":9020.34,"text":"每個港口可能各擺個"},{"start":9020.34,"end":9022.34,"text":"十台二十台"},{"start":9022.34,"end":9024.34,"text":"那你可能全台灣擺個一百台"},{"start":9024.34,"end":9026.34,"text":"那就沒了,這市場就沒了"},{"start":9026.35,"end":9028.35,"text":"因為必須要消耗,你消耗才會有需求"},{"start":9028.35,"end":9030.35,"text":"那沒有消耗你可能買完就是買完"},{"start":9030.35,"end":9032.35,"text":"就放在那"},{"start":9032.35,"end":9034.35,"text":"那其實對"},{"start":9034.52,"end":9036.52,"text":"公平上來講"},{"start":9036.52,"end":9038.52,"text":"那這個案子結束了"},{"start":9037.35,"end":9039.35,"text":"那如果是圖C或圖B的市場的話"},{"start":9039.35,"end":9041.35,"text":"他可以擴展到更遠的地方"},{"start":9041.35,"end":9043.35,"text":"因為我可以賣到其他國家"},{"start":9043.35,"end"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xt":"加上一個框架的協議的採購機制"},{"start":9476.47,"end":9478.47,"text":"那資格審查是一次到位"},{"start":9478.47,"end":9480.47,"text":"然後這時就依照"},{"start":9480.47,"end":9482.47,"text":"作戰的需求隨時下單"},{"start":9482.47,"end":9484.47,"text":"的一個模式"},{"start":9484.47,"end":9486.47,"text":"那這種可以將這個單案"},{"start":9487.21,"end":9489.21,"text":"那這種模式就是美國"},{"start":9489.21,"end":9491.21,"text":"D.I.U. 的一個"},{"start":9491.21,"end":9493.21,"text":"Commercial Solution Opening"},{"start":9493.21,"end":9495.21,"text":"C.S.O. 跟 O.T. 的機制"},{"start":9495.21,"end":9497.21,"text":"還有這個"},{"start":9497.21,"end":9499.21,"text":"Replicator 計畫他們"},{"start":9499.21,"end":9501.21,"text":"近年所推動的做法"},{"start":9501.21,"end":9503.21,"text":"我相信你們應該有做一些研究"},{"start":9503.21,"end":9505.21,"text":"可以參考"},{"start":9505.21,"end":9507.21,"text":"那當然我知道這個可以做一些示範"},{"start":9507.21,"end":9509.21,"text":"不一定說就是可能"},{"start":9509.21,"end":9511.21,"text":"會有耗費一些時間"},{"start":9511.21,"end":9513.21,"text":"那當然我知道這個可以做一些示範"},{"start":9513.21,"end":9515.21,"text":"不一定說就是可能"},{"start":9515.21,"end":9517.21,"text":"會有耗費一些時間"},{"start":9517.21,"end":9519.21,"text":"那第三個就是說可以採取分批"},{"start":9519.21,"end":9521.21,"text":"滾動式的採購"},{"start":9521.21,"end":9523.21,"text":"搭配這個戰備庫存的輪替"},{"start":9523.21,"end":9525.21,"text":"那對於這個"},{"start":9525.21,"end":9527.21,"text":"軟韌體的部分的升級"},{"start":9527.21,"end":9529.21,"text":"可以用這個採取認證的制度"},{"start":9529.21,"end":9531.21,"text":"不必整案重驗"},{"start":9531.21,"end":9533.21,"text":"那這可以確保部隊手上的"},{"start":9533.21,"end":9535.21,"text":"這個裝備呢"},{"start":9535.21,"end":9537.21,"text":"可以維持這個最新的版本"},{"start":9537.21,"end":9539.21,"text":"那第四個就是說"},{"start":9539.21,"end":9541.21,"text":"可以在第一線操作的部隊"},{"start":9541.21,"end":9543.21,"text":"建立一個常態的回饋機制"},{"start":9543.21,"end":9545.21,"text":"讓這個戰場的需求可以直接進入到"},{"start":9545.21,"end":9547.21,"text":"下一輪這個產品的規格"},{"start":9547.21,"end":9549.21,"text":"那這也是在二戰場經驗中"},{"start":9549.21,"end":9551.21,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":9551.21,"end":9553.21,"text":"他的戰力可以持續領先"},{"start":9553.21,"end":9555.21,"text":"最關鍵的一環"},{"start":9555.21,"end":9557.21,"text":"所以我另外我建議就是說"},{"start":9557.21,"end":9559.21,"text":"剛剛中委員"},{"start":9559.21,"end":9561.21,"text":"在簡報裡面有提到"},{"start":9561.21,"end":9563.21,"text":"我們應該要把這個反制無人載具的"},{"start":9563.21,"end":9565.21,"text":"系統要納入同一個"},{"start":9565.21,"end":9567.21,"text":"快速"},{"start":9566.64,"end":9568.64,"text":"籌獲的架構"},{"start":9568.64,"end":9570.64,"text":"然後這個攻防兩端同步要"},{"start":9570.64,"end":9572.64,"text":"迭代"},{"start":9572.64,"end":9574.64,"text":"因為這樣才能夠因應整個威脅形態的"},{"start":9574.64,"end":9576.64,"text":"一個快速演變"},{"start":9576.64,"end":9578.64,"text":"這是蠻重要的"},{"start":9578.64,"end":9580.64,"text":"那其實第二個面向就是說"},{"start":9580.64,"end":9582.64,"text":"我們如何透過國防的採購"},{"start":9582.64,"end":9584.64,"text":"來扶持國內無人載具供應鏈"},{"start":9584.64,"end":9586.64,"text":"以及協助"},{"start":9586.64,"end":9588.64,"text":"這個傳產這個跨入到軍工"},{"start":9588.64,"end":9590.64,"text":"產業"},{"start":9590.64,"end":9592.64,"text":"這也是這個國民黨團這邊"},{"start":9592.64,"end":9594.64,"text":"一再強調"},{"start":9594.36,"end":9596.36,"text":"本土無人載具供應鏈發展的關鍵"},{"start":9597.33,"end":9599.33,"text":"不是只有在單店的補貼"},{"start":9599.33,"end":9601.33,"text":"而是在需求性的確定性"},{"start":9601.33,"end":9603.33,"text":"剛剛前面學者"},{"start":9603.33,"end":9605.33,"text":"專家也有提到"},{"start":9605.33,"end":9607.33,"text":"那就產業的長遠發展來看"},{"start":9607.33,"end":9609.33,"text":"以我們看到行政院的版本"},{"start":9609.33,"end":9611.33,"text":"是最"},{"start":9611.33,"end":9613.33,"text":"它的需求量跟這個金額是最明確"},{"start":9613.33,"end":9615.33,"text":"四個版本中"},{"start":9615.33,"end":9617.33,"text":"它需求性是最高的"},{"start":9617.33,"end":9619.33,"text":"那這樣子產業界"},{"start":9619.33,"end":9621.33,"text":"才會敢去做投資產線"},{"start":9621.33,"end":9623.33,"text":"才會敢去擴充人才"},{"start":9623.33,"end":9625.33,"text":"所以他們看的是"},{"start":9625.33,"end":9627.33,"text":"現在簽下來的是不是長單"},{"start":9627.33,"end":9629.33,"text":"而不是"},{"start":9629.33,"end":9631.33,"text":"逐年逐案模式"},{"start":9631.33,"end":9633.33,"text":"然後每年又要去擔心"},{"start":9633.33,"end":9635.33,"text":"這個預算會被"},{"start":9635.33,"end":9637.33,"text":"刪減被凍結"},{"start":9637.33,"end":9639.33,"text":"這些變數的一個預算走額"},{"start":9639.33,"end":9641.33,"text":"所以產業投資的預期"},{"start":9641.33,"end":9643.33,"text":"是何等的脆弱"},{"start":9643.33,"end":9645.33,"text":"所以我們這邊我是希望"},{"start":9645.33,"end":9647.33,"text":"一樣支持行政院版的特別預算"},{"start":9647.33,"end":9649.33,"text":"能夠儘速啟動"},{"start":9649.33,"end":9651.33,"text":"然後來滿足"},{"start":9651.33,"end":9653.33,"text":"這個戰略缺口"},{"start":9653.33,"end":9655.33,"text":"的急迫需求"},{"start":9655.33,"end":9657.33,"text":"那這樣子國內產業可以立即取得"},{"start":9657.33,"end":9659.33,"text":"他可以去投資的"},{"start":9659.33,"end":9661.33,"text":"這個苗錠的訂單"},{"start":9661.33,"end":9663.33,"text":"所以我提出"},{"start":9663.33,"end":9665.33,"text":"以下三個具體的做法"},{"start":9668.24,"end":9670.24,"text":"好"},{"start":9669.46,"end":9671.46,"text":"無人載機系統的料件清單"},{"start":9671.46,"end":9673.46,"text":"也就是碰表"},{"start":9673.51,"end":9675.51,"text":"可以就是做系統性的"},{"start":9675.51,"end":9677.51,"text":"拆盤拆解盤點"},{"start":9677.51,"end":9679.51,"text":"也就是像"},{"start":9679.51,"end":9681.51,"text":"包括馬達電池"},{"start":9681.51,"end":9683.51,"text":"齒輪箱結構件負財"},{"start":9684.51,"end":9686.51,"text":"還有限速等等這些品項"},{"start":9686.51,"end":9688.51,"text":"這些剛好都是國內"},{"start":9688.51,"end":9690.51,"text":"中小微傳產他們"},{"start":9690.51,"end":9692.51,"text":"既有強項可以承接的範圍"},{"start":9692.51,"end":9694.51,"text":"那我覺得法案機構"},{"start":9694.51,"end":9696.51,"text":"也要進行技術移轉"},{"start":9696.51,"end":9698.51,"text":"跟媒合輔導"},{"start":9698.51,"end":9700.51,"text":"讓這個傳產可以輕易打進"},{"start":9700.51,"end":9702.51,"text":"國防供應鏈"},{"start":9702.51,"end":9704.51,"text":"作為轉型申請的這個路徑"},{"start":9704.51,"end":9706.51,"text":"這個我們在實務業界上"},{"start":9706.51,"end":9708.51,"text":"也常接觸到"},{"start":9708.51,"end":9710.51,"text":"國內的中小微產業"},{"start":9710.51,"end":9712.51,"text":"都希望能夠參與國防"},{"start":9711.96,"end":9713.96,"text":"產業的這個"},{"start":9713.96,"end":9715.96,"text":"提升"},{"start":9715.96,"end":9717.96,"text":"所以這也對台灣的航太工業"},{"start":9717.96,"end":9719.96,"text":"升級是有幫助的"},{"start":9720.54,"end":9722.54,"text":"那未來在這個無人機產業"},{"start":9722.54,"end":9724.54,"text":"戰略價值技術投入的部分"},{"start":9724.54,"end":9726.54,"text":"我們也要多仰賴"},{"start":9726.54,"end":9728.54,"text":"台灣這個半導體先進"},{"start":9728.54,"end":9730.54,"text":"製程的優勢"},{"start":9730.54,"end":9732.54,"text":"包括像非控晶片啊影像處理"},{"start":9732.54,"end":9734.54,"text":"還有這個邊緣預算"},{"start":9734.54,"end":9736.54,"text":"AI這些都可以建立自主的方案"},{"start":9736.54,"end":9738.54,"text":"那這也是各國"},{"start":9738.54,"end":9740.54,"text":"最迫切需求"},{"start":9740.54,"end":9742.54,"text":"要尋求的技術缺口"},{"start":9742.54,"end":9744.54,"text":"那第三個就是說"},{"start":9744.54,"end":9746.54,"text":"我們的供應鏈的驗證體系"},{"start":9748.03,"end":9750.03,"text":"就是說我們要對接美方的這個"},{"start":9750.03,"end":9752.03,"text":"Blue UAS的認證架構"},{"start":9752.03,"end":9754.03,"text":"那這樣子國防採購的這個"},{"start":9754.03,"end":9756.03,"text":"驗證結果同時可以進入到"},{"start":9756.03,"end":9758.03,"text":"美日歐這個"},{"start":9758.03,"end":9760.03,"text":"盟友市場的門票"},{"start":9760.03,"end":9762.03,"text":"這一點也是蠻重要"},{"start":9762.03,"end":9764.03,"text":"那這個我知道民間的法人機構"},{"start":9764.03,"end":9766.03,"text":"也有積極在推動"},{"start":9766.03,"end":9768.03,"text":"這個所謂的系統認證的"},{"start":9768.03,"end":9770.03,"text":"這個"},{"start":9770.03,"end":9772.03,"text":"不管是Blue UAS或"},{"start":9772.03,"end":9774.03,"text":"Green UAS已經積極在"},{"start":9774.03,"end":9776.03,"text":"在運作那總結來說"},{"start":9776.03,"end":9778.03,"text":"就是說"},{"start":9778.03,"end":9780.03,"text":"我們內需的訂單是要養量的"},{"start":9780.03,"end":9782.03,"text":"外銷市場是要養規模"},{"start":9782.03,"end":9784.03,"text":"所以我覺得"},{"start":9784.03,"end":9786.03,"text":"就是說我們從"},{"start":9786.03,"end":9788.03,"text":"我們可以從無人載具的這個使用者"},{"start":9788.03,"end":9790.03,"text":"可以進一步成為這個"},{"start":9790.03,"end":9792.03,"text":"民主陣營可以信賴"},{"start":9792.03,"end":9794.03,"text":"最可信賴的這個供應管道"},{"start":9794.03,"end":9796.03,"text":"所以我們自己本身要有"},{"start":9796.03,"end":9798.03,"text":"信心就像早上這個"},{"start":9798.03,"end":9800.03,"text":"NVIDIA"},{"start":9800.03,"end":9802.03,"text":"執行長"},{"start":9802.03,"end":9804.03,"text":"這個黃潤輝說他以台灣人"},{"start":9804.03,"end":9806.03,"text":"為榮他說這個"},{"start":9806.03,"end":9808.03,"text":"台灣人的"},{"start":9808.03,"end":9810.03,"text":"已經不是現在"},{"start":9810.03,"end":9812.03,"text":"台灣的這個弱勢"},{"start":9812.03,"end":9814.03,"text":"而是台灣的強項"},{"start":9814.03,"end":9816.03,"text":"所以我們真的台灣人要"},{"start":9816.03,"end":9818.03,"text":"有自信所以第三個"},{"start":9818.03,"end":9820.03,"text":"第三個面向就是我簡單"},{"start":9820.03,"end":9822.03,"text":"說一下就是無人載具測試法規"},{"start":9822.03,"end":9824.03,"text":"場域平普的問題"},{"start":9824.03,"end":9826.03,"text":"就是說基本上目前這個"},{"start":9826.03,"end":9828.03,"text":"所有的版本我目前"},{"start":9828.03,"end":9830.03,"text":"看到並沒有觸及到"},{"start":9830.03,"end":9832.03,"text":"測試法規場域跟"},{"start":9832.03,"end":9834.03,"text":"平普的制度問題簡單"},{"start":9834.03,"end":9836.03,"text":"一個就是說一個是反制無人載具"},{"start":9836.03,"end":9838.03,"text":"的測試法規原這個部分"},{"start":9838.03,"end":9840.03,"text":"在現行的就是說"},{"start":9840.03,"end":9842.03,"text":"像那個"},{"start":9842.48,"end":9844.48,"text":"侯玉祥委員他的版本"},{"start":9844.48,"end":9846.48,"text":"就定得蠻詳實的但是"},{"start":9846.48,"end":9848.48,"text":"他裡面就是說涉及到實際"},{"start":9848.48,"end":9850.48,"text":"發射干擾訊號的測試在"},{"start":9850.48,"end":9852.48,"text":"電信管理法下他的合法性"},{"start":9852.48,"end":9854.48,"text":"跟核准程序是沒有明定所以"},{"start":9854.48,"end":9856.48,"text":"這個部分應該要把他考量進去否則"},{"start":9856.48,"end":9858.48,"text":"業者沒有辦法進行合法測試"},{"start":9858.48,"end":9860.48,"text":"跟驗證這個成熟度"},{"start":9860.48,"end":9862.48,"text":"所以應該要明定一個"},{"start":9862.48,"end":9864.48,"text":"專用的場域頻率跟核准"},{"start":9864.48,"end":9866.48,"text":"的程序再來就是說"},{"start":9866.48,"end":9868.48,"text":"在海上夜間是非走廊"},{"start":9868.48,"end":9870.48,"text":"這個常態化的核准機制尤其"},{"start":9870.48,"end":9872.48,"text":"是濱海尖針型攻擊型的無人機"},{"start":9872.48,"end":9874.48,"text":"他的測評必須要在海上進行"},{"start":9874.48,"end":9876.48,"text":"所以建議要常設一個海域"},{"start":9876.48,"end":9878.48,"text":"是非走廊謝謝"},{"start":9881.27,"end":9885.27,"text":"好非常感謝呂總經理提供非常寶貴的實務經驗"},{"start":9885.27,"end":9887.27,"text":"那麼接下來我們就邀請"},{"start":9887.27,"end":9889.27,"text":"台大機械工程系的"},{"start":9889.27,"end":9891.27,"text":"特聘教授陳秉惠陳老師請"},{"start":9893.89,"end":9895.89,"text":"黃色下一頁"},{"start":9897.74,"end":9899.74,"text":"好那個主席"},{"start":9899.74,"end":9901.74,"text":"然後各位專家委員跟"},{"start":9901.74,"end":9903.74,"text":"各位政府的代表"},{"start":9903.74,"end":9905.74,"text":"在我的簡報之前我想大概也"},{"start":9905.74,"end":9907.74,"text":"有想幾句話想講"},{"start":9908.31,"end":9910.31,"text":"過去一年我接觸過"},{"start":9910.31,"end":9912.31,"text":"烏克蘭幾家的新創"},{"start":9912.98,"end":9914.98,"text":"那他們都提到烏克蘭"},{"start":9914.98,"end":9916.98,"text":"基本上他們是以"},{"start":9916.98,"end":9918.98,"text":"人命來換無人機開發的"},{"start":9918.98,"end":9920.98,"text":"經驗"},{"start":9920.17,"end":9924.17,"text":"然後他們希望可以把相關的經驗轉給台灣"},{"start":9924.17,"end":9928.17,"text":"台灣可以不用靠人命來交換經驗"},{"start":9928.17,"end":9930.17,"text":"可是他們非常希望"},{"start":9930.17,"end":9932.17,"text":"台灣可以提供關鍵零組件"},{"start":9932.17,"end":9934.17,"text":"包含晶片"},{"start":9935.63,"end":9937.63,"text":"動力系統還有感測器等等"},{"start":9937.63,"end":9939.63,"text":"來取代中國的晶片"},{"start":9939.63,"end":9941.63,"text":"他們非常非常希望"},{"start":9941.63,"end":9943.63,"text":"飛虹"},{"start":9943.63,"end":9945.63,"text":"可是要買這個歐美的"},{"start":9945.63,"end":9947.63,"text":"這些相關的這些產品"},{"start":9947.63,"end":9949.63,"text":"那個代價又很高"},{"start":9949.63,"end":9951.63,"text":"他們根本換不起"},{"start":9951.63,"end":9953.63,"text":"所以說台灣是可以跟烏克蘭"},{"start":9953.63,"end":9955.63,"text":"密切合作"},{"start":9955.63,"end":9957.63,"text":"成為全世界最重要"},{"start":9957.63,"end":9959.63,"text":"無人機或無人載具的飛虹供應鏈"},{"start":9959.63,"end":9961.63,"text":"的這樣子的兩個國家"},{"start":9961.63,"end":9963.63,"text":"第二個"},{"start":9963.63,"end":9965.63,"text":"剛剛游委員說到"},{"start":9965.63,"end":9967.63,"text":"是不是有迫切需求"},{"start":9967.63,"end":9969.63,"text":"好那我們"},{"start":9969.63,"end":9971.63,"text":"要問說現在台灣有沒有"},{"start":9971.63,"end":9973.63,"text":"足夠的無人機的庫存"},{"start":9973.63,"end":9975.63,"text":"是不是有足夠的賀主力"},{"start":9975.63,"end":9977.63,"text":"現在我相信現在只要盤點"},{"start":9977.63,"end":9979.63,"text":"以下就知道台灣的無人機"},{"start":9979.63,"end":9981.63,"text":"的庫存基本上是那個量"},{"start":9981.63,"end":9983.63,"text":"是非常少因為大部分的錢"},{"start":9983.63,"end":9985.63,"text":"現在不是被凍結不然就是"},{"start":9985.63,"end":9987.63,"text":"被刪減"},{"start":9987.63,"end":9989.63,"text":"真正如果真正盤點下來"},{"start":9989.63,"end":9991.63,"text":"我相信應該沒有超過一兩萬"},{"start":9991.63,"end":9993.63,"text":"一兩萬架的無人機的一個庫存"},{"start":9993.63,"end":9995.63,"text":"可是烏克蘭過去"},{"start":9995.63,"end":9997.63,"text":"也是以功能簡單的無人機"},{"start":9997.63,"end":9999.63,"text":"或者無人船進行改裝"},{"start":9999.63,"end":10001.63,"text":"但有需要無人機"},{"start":10001.63,"end":10003.63,"text":"無人船的時候他們也才能夠改裝"},{"start":10003.63,"end":10005.63,"text":"我們現在如果沒有這些"},{"start":10005.63,"end":10007.63,"text":"庫存先有"},{"start":10007.63,"end":10009.63,"text":"先求有才能夠再改裝"},{"start":10009.63,"end":10011.63,"text":"過去他們連大疆的都可以"},{"start":10011.63,"end":10013.63,"text":"改裝那以台灣現在"},{"start":10013.63,"end":10015.63,"text":"我們能夠做的這些無人機"},{"start":10015.63,"end":10017.63,"text":"以台灣的能力沒有辦法"},{"start":10017.63,"end":10019.63,"text":"改裝成我們所需要的真正"},{"start":10019.63,"end":10021.63,"text":"假設是需要"},{"start":10021.63,"end":10023.63,"text":"應用到這些無人機無人船"},{"start":10023.63,"end":10025.63,"text":"剛剛也有專家提到"},{"start":10025.63,"end":10027.63,"text":"我們現在的軍隊的人力"},{"start":10027.63,"end":10029.63,"text":"缺乏大家就要"},{"start":10029.63,"end":10031.63,"text":"想想現在無人機的"},{"start":10031.63,"end":10033.63,"text":"烏克蘭的戰爭"},{"start":10033.63,"end":10035.63,"text":"其實都是官兵在遠方"},{"start":10035.63,"end":10037.63,"text":"監控無人載具"},{"start":10037.63,"end":10039.63,"text":"進行攻擊甚至不用"},{"start":10039.63,"end":10041.63,"text":"官兵上戰場"},{"start":10041.63,"end":10043.63,"text":"就可以把這個"},{"start":10043.63,"end":10045.63,"text":"俄國的這些或者佔領的地區"},{"start":10045.63,"end":10047.63,"text":"就直接再拿回來"},{"start":10047.63,"end":10049.63,"text":"而且現在的無人載具是"},{"start":10049.63,"end":10051.63,"text":"這個AI化、智能化"},{"start":10051.63,"end":10053.63,"text":"一鍵操控、一鍵起飛"},{"start":10053.63,"end":10055.63,"text":"在這種情形"},{"start":10055.63,"end":10057.63,"text":"一個人可以控制幾十架"},{"start":10057.63,"end":10059.63,"text":"幾百架甚至上千架"},{"start":10059.63,"end":10061.63,"text":"這時候我們這個官兵"},{"start":10061.63,"end":10063.63,"text":"這個人員缺乏的問題"},{"start":10063.63,"end":10065.63,"text":"就可以靠無人載具"},{"start":10065.63,"end":10067.63,"text":"來解決"},{"start":10067.63,"end":10069.63,"text":"我們就是需要無人載具"},{"start":10069.63,"end":10071.63,"text":"來解決我們現在兵源不足"},{"start":10071.63,"end":10073.63,"text":"可是又能夠維持"},{"start":10073.63,"end":10075.63,"text":"我們的這個嚇阻的一個"},{"start":10075.63,"end":10077.63,"text":"力量"},{"start":10077.63,"end":10079.63,"text":"最後還有一個關鍵領主鍵"},{"start":10079.63,"end":10081.63,"text":"這個就是"},{"start":10081.63,"end":10083.63,"text":"剛剛也有一些專家提到說"},{"start":10083.63,"end":10085.63,"text":"現在關鍵領主鍵缺"},{"start":10085.63,"end":10087.63,"text":"那最近"},{"start":10087.63,"end":10089.63,"text":"經過這個"},{"start":10089.63,"end":10091.63,"text":"一些廠商的申請"},{"start":10091.63,"end":10093.63,"text":"那我們知道現在"},{"start":10093.63,"end":10095.63,"text":"不管是紅外線感測"},{"start":10095.63,"end":10097.63,"text":"馬達"},{"start":10097.63,"end":10099.63,"text":"尤其是動力系統EMI等等之類"},{"start":10099.63,"end":10101.63,"text":"剛剛李教授提到的"},{"start":10101.63,"end":10103.63,"text":"最近都有廠商提出申請"},{"start":10103.63,"end":10105.63,"text":"那這次如果"},{"start":10105.63,"end":10107.63,"text":"統籌方案如果被凍結"},{"start":10107.63,"end":10109.63,"text":"或者被刪減"},{"start":10109.63,"end":10111.63,"text":"那這些重要的關鍵領主鍵"},{"start":10111.63,"end":10113.63,"text":"廠商開發的補助就不見了"},{"start":10113.63,"end":10115.63,"text":"那這時候"},{"start":10115.63,"end":10117.63,"text":"這個顧客欄或者是全世界"},{"start":10117.63,"end":10119.63,"text":"需要這個CP值"},{"start":10119.63,"end":10121.63,"text":"很高的這些關鍵領主鍵"},{"start":10121.63,"end":10123.63,"text":"就沒有了"},{"start":10123.63,"end":10125.63,"text":"所以說希望真的是大院"},{"start":10125.63,"end":10127.63,"text":"不要去這個"},{"start":10127.63,"end":10129.63,"text":"就是希望能夠多支持一下"},{"start":10129.63,"end":10131.63,"text":"這個統籌方案因為裡面有蠻多"},{"start":10131.63,"end":10133.63,"text":"這個補助廠商的部分"},{"start":10133.63,"end":10135.63,"text":"而且是開發非常重要的"},{"start":10135.63,"end":10137.63,"text":"關鍵領主鍵"},{"start":10137.63,"end":10139.63,"text":"包含這個AI的系統"},{"start":10139.63,"end":10141.63,"text":"這個非控的系統"},{"start":10141.63,"end":10143.63,"text":"然後紅外線感測等等"},{"start":10143.63,"end":10145.63,"text":"那這些就是希望"},{"start":10145.63,"end":10147.63,"text":"這個大院能夠支持"},{"start":10148.47,"end":10150.47,"text":"好那這個我想剛剛"},{"start":10150.47,"end":10152.47,"text":"有提到就是這是我"},{"start":10152.47,"end":10154.47,"text":"做的投影片那也簡單的"},{"start":10154.47,"end":10156.47,"text":"跟大家介紹"},{"start":10156.47,"end":10158.47,"text":"那目前當然"},{"start":10158.47,"end":10160.47,"text":"這個如果真的要做台灣"},{"start":10160.47,"end":10162.47,"text":"要做這個非控供應鏈"},{"start":10162.47,"end":10164.47,"text":"我們最大的競爭對手其實是烏克蘭"},{"start":10164.47,"end":10166.47,"text":"那因為他們有各式各樣的"},{"start":10166.47,"end":10168.47,"text":"已經有實戰過的一些"},{"start":10168.47,"end":10170.47,"text":"這個經驗的一些規格"},{"start":10170.47,"end":10172.47,"text":"我們應該要想辦法跟他合作"},{"start":10172.47,"end":10174.47,"text":"那這個是無人機的種類我想大家"},{"start":10174.47,"end":10176.47,"text":"是沒有什麼問題"},{"start":10176.47,"end":10178.47,"text":"無人機的軍事用途大概"},{"start":10178.47,"end":10180.47,"text":"有分為徵收攻擊還有獵殺"},{"start":10180.47,"end":10182.47,"text":"還有攔截跟通訊"},{"start":10182.47,"end":10184.47,"text":"所以說我們這一次的行政院"},{"start":10184.47,"end":10186.47,"text":"所提的版本是不是要再"},{"start":10186.47,"end":10188.47,"text":"擴充我們需要購買的一個種類"},{"start":10188.47,"end":10190.47,"text":"增加經費這個我是"},{"start":10190.47,"end":10192.47,"text":"建議是可以探討"},{"start":10192.47,"end":10194.47,"text":"那這裡面的主要是系統"},{"start":10194.47,"end":10196.47,"text":"這些我想應該大家是可以"},{"start":10196.47,"end":10198.47,"text":"參考我的投影片那"},{"start":10198.47,"end":10200.47,"text":"目前呢這個台灣的"},{"start":10200.47,"end":10202.47,"text":"無人機的廠商經過這幾年的"},{"start":10202.47,"end":10204.47,"text":"一個發展那"},{"start":10204.47,"end":10206.47,"text":"大概就是在270家左右"},{"start":10208.14,"end":10210.14,"text":"那這裡面我剛剛有提到這些"},{"start":10210.14,"end":10212.14,"text":"庫存的部分"},{"start":10212.14,"end":10214.14,"text":"那這個剛剛也有"},{"start":10214.14,"end":10216.14,"text":"專家有提到說我們目前這個整機"},{"start":10216.14,"end":10218.14,"text":"無人機的產值那"},{"start":10218.14,"end":10220.14,"text":"115年前半年已經超過67.8億"},{"start":10220.14,"end":10222.14,"text":"那5月的時候沙烏地"},{"start":10222.14,"end":10224.14,"text":"沙烏地阿拉伯就購買了"},{"start":10224.14,"end":10226.14,"text":"15.1億"},{"start":10226.14,"end":10228.14,"text":"那目前呢烏克蘭"},{"start":10228.14,"end":10230.14,"text":"一年大概可以生產400萬價"},{"start":10230.14,"end":10232.14,"text":"那他們也透過"},{"start":10232.14,"end":10234.14,"text":"他們自己的需求然後他們"},{"start":10234.14,"end":10236.14,"text":"現在也可以供應這個"},{"start":10236.14,"end":10238.14,"text":"這些戶口相關的這些這個無人機"},{"start":10238.14,"end":10240.14,"text":"那"},{"start":10240.81,"end":10242.81,"text":"那台灣的優勢是什麼"},{"start":10242.81,"end":10244.81,"text":"我們的晶片代工世界第一"},{"start":10244.81,"end":10246.81,"text":"那雖然剛剛李剛教授"},{"start":10246.81,"end":10248.81,"text":"提到說不能只講電子業"},{"start":10248.81,"end":10250.81,"text":"那可是電子業的確是"},{"start":10250.81,"end":10252.81,"text":"很強那電子產品的"},{"start":10252.81,"end":10254.81,"text":"這個代工呢也是世界第一"},{"start":10254.81,"end":10256.81,"text":"IC設計業世界第三"},{"start":10256.81,"end":10258.81,"text":"那這裡面"},{"start":10258.81,"end":10260.81,"text":"那這個前十名裡面"},{"start":10260.81,"end":10262.81,"text":"美國7家台灣有兩家"},{"start":10262.81,"end":10264.81,"text":"中國有一家就是CMOS的感測器"},{"start":10264.81,"end":10266.81,"text":"而這個部分呢是正是"},{"start":10266.81,"end":10268.81,"text":"我們在無人機產業裡面非常"},{"start":10268.81,"end":10270.81,"text":"非常需要就是做紅外線感測"},{"start":10270.81,"end":10272.81,"text":"然後晶片機械是世界第七"},{"start":10272.81,"end":10274.81,"text":"然後呢我們的企業效能呢"},{"start":10274.81,"end":10276.81,"text":"表現突出呢"},{"start":10276.81,"end":10278.81,"text":"那在IMD的評比是全球第四"},{"start":10278.81,"end":10280.81,"text":"那我們能夠的"},{"start":10280.81,"end":10282.81,"text":"這個台灣最大的競爭力是"},{"start":10282.81,"end":10284.81,"text":"馬達電池"},{"start":10284.81,"end":10286.81,"text":"現在開始真的是台灣的"},{"start":10286.81,"end":10288.81,"text":"電池已經慢慢的已經提供給"},{"start":10288.81,"end":10290.81,"text":"這個而且呢"},{"start":10290.81,"end":10292.81,"text":"提供電池的廠商絕對不是"},{"start":10292.81,"end":10294.81,"text":"綠油油"},{"start":10294.81,"end":10296.81,"text":"那在雲台的部分"},{"start":10296.81,"end":10298.81,"text":"那這個呢已經也有相當多的廠商"},{"start":10298.81,"end":10300.81,"text":"而且可以提供非常好的一些雲台"},{"start":10300.81,"end":10302.81,"text":"那晶片的部分"},{"start":10302.81,"end":10304.81,"text":"現在不管是飛控晶片通信晶片"},{"start":10304.81,"end":10306.81,"text":"抗干擾晶片"},{"start":10306.81,"end":10308.81,"text":"突傳晶片AI影像晶片"},{"start":10308.81,"end":10310.81,"text":"現在也都在補助廠商在做開發"},{"start":10310.81,"end":10312.81,"text":"那感測性"},{"start":10312.81,"end":10314.81,"text":"熱影像的感測"},{"start":10314.81,"end":10316.81,"text":"感測器的部分現在呢"},{"start":10316.81,"end":10318.81,"text":"如果大家看經濟部的網站"},{"start":10318.81,"end":10320.81,"text":"至少已經有兩家在做"},{"start":10320.81,"end":10322.81,"text":"這個紅外線感測的"},{"start":10322.81,"end":10324.81,"text":"那除了這個以外我們也做了這個"},{"start":10324.81,"end":10326.81,"text":"也補助了夜間海上的一個光達"},{"start":10326.81,"end":10328.81,"text":"那其實我們最有能量的其中"},{"start":10328.81,"end":10330.81,"text":"一項當然是剛剛李剛"},{"start":10330.81,"end":10332.81,"text":"老師所講的"},{"start":10332.81,"end":10334.81,"text":"這個就是這個精密"},{"start":10334.81,"end":10336.81,"text":"製造然後量產的這個能力"},{"start":10336.81,"end":10338.81,"text":"所以說如果"},{"start":10338.81,"end":10340.81,"text":"我們怎麼樣那也必須要有足夠"},{"start":10340.81,"end":10342.81,"text":"的需求那我們足夠"},{"start":10342.81,"end":10344.81,"text":"的需求現在全世界最大的需求"},{"start":10344.81,"end":10346.81,"text":"都是軍方那大家有可能"},{"start":10346.81,"end":10348.81,"text":"剛剛有提到說軍方"},{"start":10348.81,"end":10350.81,"text":"買了以後是不是市場就沒有"},{"start":10350.81,"end":10352.81,"text":"事實上是全世界現在破卻"},{"start":10352.81,"end":10354.81,"text":"軍方破卻需要這些無人機"},{"start":10354.81,"end":10356.81,"text":"而且是CP值夠高的"},{"start":10356.81,"end":10358.81,"text":"那這些東西是台灣是可以"},{"start":10358.81,"end":10360.81,"text":"提供的"},{"start":10360.81,"end":10362.81,"text":"台灣的弱項當然還是有"},{"start":10362.81,"end":10364.81,"text":"相關的地主共通標準"},{"start":10364.81,"end":10366.81,"text":"操作這個系統或者是"},{"start":10366.81,"end":10368.81,"text":"這個C5IS"},{"start":10368.81,"end":10370.81,"text":"那這個部分我們應該也要努力的趕上"},{"start":10372.72,"end":10374.72,"text":"那這裡面"},{"start":10374.61,"end":10376.61,"text":"那這個是結論的部分"},{"start":10376.61,"end":10378.61,"text":"那在念結論之前我想"},{"start":10378.61,"end":10380.61,"text":"我還是要先針對這個重要"},{"start":10380.61,"end":10382.61,"text":"的這個國防自主"},{"start":10382.61,"end":10384.61,"text":"的無人載具的採購特別"},{"start":10384.61,"end":10386.61,"text":"條例提供一點建議"},{"start":10386.61,"end":10388.61,"text":"我個人是支持這個條例因為我們"},{"start":10388.61,"end":10390.61,"text":"要趕快建立我們的庫存"},{"start":10390.61,"end":10392.61,"text":"第一個是第三條裡面"},{"start":10392.61,"end":10394.61,"text":"我是建議訓練的部分"},{"start":10394.61,"end":10396.61,"text":"要多加一個迭代開發"},{"start":10396.61,"end":10398.61,"text":"這是第一點那第二個"},{"start":10398.61,"end":10400.61,"text":"這個在第"},{"start":10400.61,"end":10402.61,"text":"第四條或者是其他條"},{"start":10402.61,"end":10404.61,"text":"軍方應該要設定統一的標準"},{"start":10404.61,"end":10406.61,"text":"讓不同的廠商的"},{"start":10406.61,"end":10408.61,"text":"關鍵零子件可以互換"},{"start":10408.61,"end":10410.61,"text":"因為我們現在的電腦的這個"},{"start":10410.61,"end":10412.61,"text":"單價可以這麼便宜是因為"},{"start":10412.61,"end":10414.61,"text":"都有統一的標準那"},{"start":10414.61,"end":10416.61,"text":"半導體SAMI它也訂了各式各樣的"},{"start":10416.61,"end":10418.61,"text":"標準那如果不訂標準"},{"start":10418.61,"end":10420.61,"text":"現在所有的無人機"},{"start":10420.61,"end":10422.61,"text":"就是客製化那一旦客製"},{"start":10422.61,"end":10424.61,"text":"化它的單價就很高"},{"start":10424.61,"end":10426.61,"text":"我舉一個例子我們現在的非控板"},{"start":10426.61,"end":10428.61,"text":"現在如果非控板"},{"start":10428.61,"end":10430.61,"text":"不能互換我們應該把它定一個"},{"start":10430.61,"end":10432.61,"text":"標準之後讓最有能力的廠商"},{"start":10432.61,"end":10434.61,"text":"就經過"},{"start":10434.61,"end":10436.61,"text":"競爭以後能夠"},{"start":10436.61,"end":10438.61,"text":"大量生產然後讓單價降低"},{"start":10438.61,"end":10440.61,"text":"那除了這個以外"},{"start":10440.61,"end":10442.61,"text":"我們採購可以部分"},{"start":10442.61,"end":10444.61,"text":"整機可是"},{"start":10444.61,"end":10446.61,"text":"大部分是採用"},{"start":10446.61,"end":10448.61,"text":"關鍵零組件然後用"},{"start":10448.61,"end":10450.61,"text":"關鍵零組件組裝讓軍方"},{"start":10450.61,"end":10452.61,"text":"每年來進行"},{"start":10452.61,"end":10454.61,"text":"對抗然後對抗"},{"start":10454.61,"end":10456.61,"text":"營的就放一個月容易價"},{"start":10456.61,"end":10458.61,"text":"我相信我們大概可以"},{"start":10458.61,"end":10460.61,"text":"可以迭代出各式各樣的"},{"start":10460.61,"end":10462.61,"text":"這個無人機的一個應用"},{"start":10462.61,"end":10464.61,"text":"然後很重要的是要建立測試場域"},{"start":10464.61,"end":10466.61,"text":"這裡面就包含"},{"start":10466.61,"end":10468.61,"text":"海空的測試場域現在"},{"start":10468.61,"end":10470.61,"text":"空的我們要民航局"},{"start":10470.61,"end":10472.61,"text":"那海的要港務局或者是海巡署"},{"start":10472.61,"end":10474.61,"text":"沒有一個單位單一窗口"},{"start":10474.61,"end":10476.61,"text":"來處理這個測試場域"},{"start":10476.61,"end":10478.61,"text":"然後要有火藥的時候"},{"start":10478.61,"end":10480.61,"text":"還有要抗干擾的時候要怎麼辦"},{"start":10480.61,"end":10482.61,"text":"那剛剛我提到說這個平埔"},{"start":10482.61,"end":10484.61,"text":"的問題其實還有長距離"},{"start":10484.61,"end":10486.61,"text":"等等通訊的這些東西要處理"},{"start":10486.61,"end":10488.61,"text":"然後"},{"start":10488.61,"end":10490.61,"text":"應該要提供補助讓廠商開發"},{"start":10490.61,"end":10492.61,"text":"先競爭比較之後然後再採購"},{"start":10492.61,"end":10494.61,"text":"而且我們的標準"},{"start":10494.61,"end":10496.61,"text":"一定要先通過國際"},{"start":10496.61,"end":10498.61,"text":"相容的標準例如"},{"start":10498.61,"end":10500.61,"text":"Blue UAS跟Green UAS"},{"start":10500.61,"end":10502.61,"text":"然後增加國際合作的機會"},{"start":10502.61,"end":10504.61,"text":"最後補助希望能夠補助"},{"start":10504.61,"end":10506.61,"text":"廠商建立生產線以上報告"},{"start":10506.61,"end":10508.61,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10509.95,"end":10511.95,"text":"好非常感謝我們陳教授"},{"start":10511.95,"end":10513.95,"text":"的一個說明跟介紹"},{"start":10513.95,"end":10517.95,"text":"接下來請全球防衛雜誌的陳主任陳國民先生"},{"start":10531.84,"end":10533.84,"text":"不好意思主席他的同仁"},{"start":10533.84,"end":10535.84,"text":"還有各位媒體先生還有廣告部長的"},{"start":10535.84,"end":10537.84,"text":"一些朋友大家好"},{"start":10538.15,"end":10540.15,"text":"我這邊簡單的報告一下"},{"start":10540.15,"end":10542.15,"text":"因為其實書面之量其實大概都有"},{"start":10542.15,"end":10544.15,"text":"那我們這邊先講幾個兩個小故事"},{"start":10544.15,"end":10546.15,"text":"一個小故事是說"},{"start":10546.15,"end":10548.15,"text":"2022年7月"},{"start":10548.15,"end":10550.15,"text":"其實金門呢金門處軍"},{"start":10550.15,"end":10552.15,"text":"發生所謂的丟菜"},{"start":10552.15,"end":10554.15,"text":"被斷丟炸菜包"},{"start":10554.15,"end":10556.15,"text":"的事件到了四年之後"},{"start":10556.15,"end":10558.15,"text":"其實國內還是"},{"start":10558.15,"end":10560.15,"text":"沒有一套有效的反制"},{"start":10560.15,"end":10562.15,"text":"的無人機的措施"},{"start":10562.15,"end":10564.15,"text":"那其實說是對於現官兵來說"},{"start":10564.15,"end":10566.15,"text":"其實是非常的"},{"start":10566.15,"end":10568.15,"text":"不理想的"},{"start":10568.15,"end":10570.15,"text":"那第二個就是說我們剛才討論那麼多"},{"start":10570.15,"end":10572.15,"text":"其實在二戰場上其實"},{"start":10572.15,"end":10574.15,"text":"有很多我們的台灣製的無人機"},{"start":10574.15,"end":10576.15,"text":"已經在二戰場上運用"},{"start":10576.15,"end":10578.15,"text":"那其實報章雜誌"},{"start":10578.15,"end":10580.15,"text":"其實都會有但是有一個現象是"},{"start":10580.94,"end":10582.94,"text":"那這些無人機怎麼我們國內"},{"start":10582.94,"end":10584.94,"text":"好像都用不到其實這是非常非常"},{"start":10584.94,"end":10586.94,"text":"可惜的部分"},{"start":10586.94,"end":10588.94,"text":"我們等一下就練一下說我們今天的"},{"start":10588.94,"end":10590.94,"text":"報告那我會按照我之前"},{"start":10590.94,"end":10592.94,"text":"書面之要來做然後"},{"start":10592.94,"end":10594.94,"text":"第三個我會借用"},{"start":10594.94,"end":10596.94,"text":"那個開船的模型跟大家"},{"start":10596.94,"end":10598.94,"text":"講一下這個產官學界的問題"},{"start":10598.94,"end":10600.94,"text":"那其實第一個我們"},{"start":10600.94,"end":10602.94,"text":"有幾個問題"},{"start":10602.94,"end":10604.94,"text":"需要加強那目前我們對"},{"start":10604.94,"end":10606.94,"text":"無人機的公開的資訊"},{"start":10606.94,"end":10608.94,"text":"大部分都集中在無人機的性能"},{"start":10608.94,"end":10610.94,"text":"價格技術規格"},{"start":10610.94,"end":10612.94,"text":"那你比較少跟"},{"start":10612.94,"end":10614.94,"text":"這些所謂的廠商或說"},{"start":10614.94,"end":10616.94,"text":"單位說他的目標"},{"start":10616.94,"end":10618.94,"text":"是什麼他的部署需求是什麼"},{"start":10618.94,"end":10620.94,"text":"他的應用情境還有系統的"},{"start":10620.94,"end":10622.94,"text":"應用環境是怎麼樣"},{"start":10622.94,"end":10624.94,"text":"廠商就很難掌握說"},{"start":10624.94,"end":10626.94,"text":"你們到底要做什麼"},{"start":10627.67,"end":10629.67,"text":"廠商就是說"},{"start":10629.67,"end":10631.67,"text":"他到底要開發什麼他其實不知道"},{"start":10631.67,"end":10633.67,"text":"那第二點就是說"},{"start":10633.67,"end":10635.67,"text":"還是沿用到上次說明說"},{"start":10635.67,"end":10637.67,"text":"運用場景不夠完整"},{"start":10638.49,"end":10640.49,"text":"那不同的任務比如說偵察物流"},{"start":10640.49,"end":10642.49,"text":"就是空運業者"},{"start":10642.49,"end":10644.49,"text":"那中國大陸叫做低空經濟"},{"start":10644.49,"end":10646.49,"text":"這個先不管就是說"},{"start":10646.49,"end":10648.49,"text":"偵察物流巡防打擊海域監視"},{"start":10648.49,"end":10650.49,"text":"所需要的飛控模式導航模式"},{"start":10650.49,"end":10652.49,"text":"仇宰耐航能力續航"},{"start":10652.49,"end":10654.49,"text":"要求等等"},{"start":10654.35,"end":10656.35,"text":"這些完全都不知道"},{"start":10656.35,"end":10658.35,"text":"那其實大家很難想像說"},{"start":10658.35,"end":10660.35,"text":"我們都無人機在什麼軍用民用"},{"start":10660.35,"end":10662.35,"text":"你知不知道就是說"},{"start":10662.35,"end":10664.35,"text":"北海道的農民"},{"start":10664.35,"end":10666.35,"text":"日本北海道農民他們運用無人機"},{"start":10666.35,"end":10668.35,"text":"來做什麼來找熊"},{"start":10668.35,"end":10670.35,"text":"就是說他熊"},{"start":10670.35,"end":10672.35,"text":"熊會侵害到民宅"},{"start":10672.35,"end":10674.35,"text":"所以其實他們會運用無人機去找熊"},{"start":10674.35,"end":10676.35,"text":"那這些無人機的話其實就跟我們"},{"start":10676.35,"end":10678.35,"text":"單兵用的那種反"},{"start":10678.35,"end":10680.35,"text":"丟職性的那種無人機"},{"start":10680.35,"end":10682.35,"text":"一樣一模一樣"},{"start":10682.35,"end":10684.35,"text":"第三個就是驗證標準"},{"start":10684.35,"end":10686.35,"text":"那其實剛才已經有專家講過了"},{"start":10686.35,"end":10688.35,"text":"那不管是在非測的項目"},{"start":10688.35,"end":10690.35,"text":"新的門檻驗證方式"},{"start":10690.35,"end":10692.35,"text":"驗收的標準都沒有及早確立"},{"start":10692.35,"end":10694.35,"text":"那廠商在開發的時候"},{"start":10694.35,"end":10696.35,"text":"他根本沒有標準"},{"start":10696.35,"end":10698.35,"text":"他根本沒有辦法去做"},{"start":10698.35,"end":10700.35,"text":"產出跟需求"},{"start":10700.35,"end":10702.35,"text":"他也沒有辦法做後續的成本調整"},{"start":10702.35,"end":10704.35,"text":"跟改正"},{"start":10704.35,"end":10706.35,"text":"這個他們會去抓"},{"start":10706.35,"end":10708.35,"text":"那第四個就是中長期的需求規劃"},{"start":10708.35,"end":10710.35,"text":"還有提高他們的可預測性"},{"start":10710.35,"end":10712.35,"text":"講白點就是說你要讓他們"},{"start":10712.35,"end":10714.35,"text":"看到說我這個生產下去"},{"start":10714.35,"end":10716.35,"text":"可能會有一些"},{"start":10716.35,"end":10718.35,"text":"投資誘因"},{"start":10718.35,"end":10720.35,"text":"那麼還是要練一下"},{"start":10720.35,"end":10722.35,"text":"目前的各個無人機的需求還有規模"},{"start":10722.35,"end":10724.35,"text":"技術會隨著他們"},{"start":10724.35,"end":10726.35,"text":"專案的持續調整"},{"start":10726.35,"end":10728.35,"text":"部分專案會先打樣測試"},{"start":10728.35,"end":10730.35,"text":"然後逐步的需求"},{"start":10730.35,"end":10732.35,"text":"那我必須說啦這些都是成本"},{"start":10732.35,"end":10734.35,"text":"都是錢"},{"start":10734.35,"end":10736.35,"text":"很多的不管是投資設備"},{"start":10736.35,"end":10738.35,"text":"產能的設備還有人才的培育"},{"start":10738.35,"end":10740.35,"text":"這些都需要時間跟人精錢"},{"start":10740.35,"end":10742.35,"text":"那第五個是需求"},{"start":10742.35,"end":10744.35,"text":"公共機制有待持續更新"},{"start":10744.35,"end":10746.35,"text":"比如說企業他們在專案"},{"start":10746.35,"end":10748.35,"text":"執行生產的時候"},{"start":10748.35,"end":10750.35,"text":"他如果說沒有及時得到相關的需求"},{"start":10750.35,"end":10752.35,"text":"或技術成型"},{"start":10752.35,"end":10754.35,"text":"那不同廠商對於他的規格"},{"start":10754.35,"end":10756.35,"text":"他會產生不同的解讀"},{"start":10756.35,"end":10758.35,"text":"那就會重複投資"},{"start":10758.35,"end":10760.35,"text":"講白點所以了解"},{"start":10761.12,"end":10763.12,"text":"第六個的話就是增加企業的投入成本"},{"start":10765.96,"end":10767.96,"text":"在政府需求有限的資訊"},{"start":10767.96,"end":10769.96,"text":"資訊有限的狀況下"},{"start":10769.96,"end":10771.96,"text":"企業提供很高的時間"},{"start":10771.96,"end":10773.96,"text":"驗證跟需求假設"},{"start":10773.96,"end":10775.96,"text":"增加他們的試驗錯誤的成本"},{"start":10775.96,"end":10777.96,"text":"比如說剛才我們"},{"start":10777.96,"end":10779.96,"text":"那個戰博士已經講過了"},{"start":10779.96,"end":10781.96,"text":"這是一個案例"},{"start":10781.96,"end":10783.96,"text":"第七個是會影響到"},{"start":10783.96,"end":10785.96,"text":"公民面的投資意願"},{"start":10785.96,"end":10787.96,"text":"那需求方法如果不夠明確"},{"start":10787.96,"end":10789.96,"text":"那公民廠商都很難"},{"start":10789.96,"end":10791.96,"text":"提供相關的設備自動化設施"},{"start":10791.96,"end":10793.96,"text":"模具材料零組件設計"},{"start":10793.96,"end":10795.96,"text":"等等"},{"start":10795.96,"end":10797.96,"text":"第八個是導入的產品時間比較長"},{"start":10797.96,"end":10799.96,"text":"那如果說"},{"start":10799.96,"end":10801.96,"text":"產品的定義跟驗證的時間"},{"start":10802.87,"end":10804.87,"text":"跟開發後期"},{"start":10804.87,"end":10806.87,"text":"廠商在開發後期再逐步明確的話"},{"start":10806.87,"end":10808.87,"text":"其實廠商根本來不及修正"},{"start":10808.87,"end":10810.87,"text":"那其他第九點跟第十點"},{"start":10810.87,"end":10812.87,"text":"差不多也是這樣"},{"start":10812.87,"end":10814.87,"text":"那其實我覺得還是講一個"},{"start":10814.87,"end":10816.87,"text":"比較大要的問題"},{"start":10817.26,"end":10819.26,"text":"像日本"},{"start":10819.26,"end":10821.26,"text":"他們其實的無人機"},{"start":10821.26,"end":10823.26,"text":"他們有一個聯盟叫JUIDA"},{"start":10823.26,"end":10825.26,"text":"JUIDA"},{"start":10825.26,"end":10827.26,"text":"其實就是無人機產業協會"},{"start":10827.26,"end":10829.26,"text":"那這個協會權力很大"},{"start":10829.26,"end":10831.26,"text":"它可以動用國土城"},{"start":10831.26,"end":10833.26,"text":"日本國土城交通人"},{"start":10833.26,"end":10835.26,"text":"還有防衛使人的支援"},{"start":10835.26,"end":10837.26,"text":"協助他們"},{"start":10837.26,"end":10839.26,"text":"其實我們這一塊有在做"},{"start":10839.26,"end":10841.26,"text":"但是我們比較慢"},{"start":10841.26,"end":10843.26,"text":"那之前像我們的航太工會跟國防產業協會"},{"start":10843.26,"end":10845.26,"text":"他們都會協助"},{"start":10845.26,"end":10847.26,"text":"他們交出協會"},{"start":10847.26,"end":10849.26,"text":"然後協助他們取得資格認證"},{"start":10849.26,"end":10851.26,"text":"那其實"},{"start":10851.26,"end":10853.26,"text":"我們的航太產業"},{"start":10853.26,"end":10855.26,"text":"之前就是用"},{"start":10855.26,"end":10857.26,"text":"航太工會跟國防產業協會的力量"},{"start":10857.26,"end":10859.26,"text":"去深入日本的市場"},{"start":10859.26,"end":10861.26,"text":"那其實我的意思是說"},{"start":10861.26,"end":10863.26,"text":"我們可以運用航太工會"},{"start":10863.26,"end":10865.26,"text":"跟國防產業的協會"},{"start":10865.26,"end":10867.26,"text":"這個模式"},{"start":10867.26,"end":10869.26,"text":"把它帶到無人機協會的身上"},{"start":10869.26,"end":10871.26,"text":"這個很重要"},{"start":10871.26,"end":10873.26,"text":"因為其實我們講白了"},{"start":10873.26,"end":10875.26,"text":"日本有限"},{"start":10875.26,"end":10877.26,"text":"日本有跟他們打交道經驗"},{"start":10877.26,"end":10879.26,"text":"航太業他們已經發展到很完全"},{"start":10879.26,"end":10881.26,"text":"你要把這個機會帶到日本去"},{"start":10881.26,"end":10883.26,"text":"因為日本其實他們也在排洪"},{"start":10883.26,"end":10885.26,"text":"那"},{"start":10885.26,"end":10887.26,"text":"比較嚴酷的是說日本的所有無人機"},{"start":10887.26,"end":10889.26,"text":"他們的紅色工業"},{"start":10889.26,"end":10891.26,"text":"占比很高"},{"start":10891.26,"end":10893.26,"text":"他們現在在排除叫去紅"},{"start":10893.26,"end":10895.26,"text":"那其實這個是我們的商機"},{"start":10895.26,"end":10897.26,"text":"那最後一點其實我們還是要"},{"start":10897.26,"end":10899.26,"text":"恢復到"},{"start":10899.26,"end":10901.26,"text":"我們的一些宣傳"},{"start":10901.26,"end":10903.26,"text":"其實我這邊帶了兩本冊子"},{"start":10903.26,"end":10905.26,"text":"那一本是我們"},{"start":10905.26,"end":10907.26,"text":"其實這邊有國防部還有內政部的一些官員"},{"start":10908.76,"end":10910.76,"text":"這一本你在機場上都可以看到"},{"start":10910.76,"end":10912.76,"text":"就是我們民航小日誌"},{"start":10912.76,"end":10914.76,"text":"這個做得非常好"},{"start":10914.76,"end":10916.76,"text":"那我這一本是20年前的"},{"start":10916.76,"end":10918.76,"text":"20年前國防部三項軍購的時候"},{"start":10918.76,"end":10920.76,"text":"他就發一個小冊子"},{"start":10920.76,"end":10922.76,"text":"大家都知道說"},{"start":10922.76,"end":10924.76,"text":"20年前我們都知道買了潛艦"},{"start":10924.76,"end":10926.76,"text":"P3C帶國際飛彈"},{"start":10926.76,"end":10928.76,"text":"可是你如果說現在問一下一般的民眾"},{"start":10928.76,"end":10931.76,"text":"你知道我們現在要買哪七項國防裝備嗎?"},{"start":10931.76,"end":10933.76,"text":"不知道"},{"start":10933.76,"end":10935.76,"text":"那無人機有幾個等級嗎?五個等級"},{"start":10935.76,"end":10937.76,"text":"五個等級什麼樣的規格?不知道"},{"start":10937.76,"end":10939.76,"text":"大概參考價格什麼?都不知道"},{"start":10939.76,"end":10941.76,"text":"我覺得國防部或相關的部會"},{"start":10941.76,"end":10943.76,"text":"你可能還要多多宣導"},{"start":10943.76,"end":10945.76,"text":"那我覺得這樣民眾"},{"start":10945.76,"end":10947.76,"text":"會比較好接受"},{"start":10947.76,"end":10949.76,"text":"那我覺得我可以用那個模型嗎?"},{"start":10951.38,"end":10953.38,"text":"我搬過去啦"},{"start":10956.56,"end":10958.56,"text":"有戴模型會比較寬"},{"start":10958.56,"end":10960.56,"text":"好,不好意思"},{"start":10961.78,"end":10963.78,"text":"不好意思,就稍微摸起來"},{"start":10963.78,"end":10965.78,"text":"就摸起來"},{"start":10965.78,"end":10967.78,"text":"其實我們常常說長官學長官學"},{"start":10967.78,"end":10969.78,"text":"那我覺得你們"},{"start":10969.78,"end":10971.78,"text":"應該說大家要怎麼努力"},{"start":10971.78,"end":10973.78,"text":"來產製我們的無人機"},{"start":10973.52,"end":10975.52,"text":"你看就是說"},{"start":10975.52,"end":10977.52,"text":"其實我們說什麼風群無人機"},{"start":10977.52,"end":10979.52,"text":"比如說風群那個小艇攻擊"},{"start":10979.52,"end":10981.52,"text":"那其實你知道嗎?"},{"start":10981.52,"end":10983.52,"text":"就是說好,假設我們要"},{"start":10983.52,"end":10985.52,"text":"四艘快點去攻擊對方的船舶"},{"start":10985.52,"end":10987.52,"text":"那其實這四艘小艇"},{"start":10987.52,"end":10989.52,"text":"它其實在航行的過程中"},{"start":10989.52,"end":10991.52,"text":"會因為海流"},{"start":10991.52,"end":10993.52,"text":"海流的漂移"},{"start":10993.52,"end":10995.52,"text":"那其實它會產生一個叫"},{"start":10995.52,"end":10997.52,"text":"漂移半徑"},{"start":10997.52,"end":10999.52,"text":"你就把它想像一個問題說"},{"start":10999.52,"end":11001.52,"text":"其實這四艘船它不會同一時間到達一個定點"},{"start":11001.52,"end":11003.52,"text":"這個叫漂移半徑"},{"start":11003.52,"end":11005.52,"text":"一艘船就是這樣子"},{"start":11005.52,"end":11007.52,"text":"那你如果有十艘船,漂移半徑就不一樣"},{"start":11007.52,"end":11009.52,"text":"為什麼這麼重要?"},{"start":11009.52,"end":11011.52,"text":"因為其實在海上這個叫定位"},{"start":11011.52,"end":11013.52,"text":"這個叫精準定位"},{"start":11013.52,"end":11015.52,"text":"那至於說學理的驗證"},{"start":11015.52,"end":11017.52,"text":"就交給那些博士"},{"start":11017.52,"end":11019.52,"text":"他們很厲害"},{"start":11019.52,"end":11021.52,"text":"他們都會"},{"start":11021.52,"end":11023.52,"text":"但是你說學理"},{"start":11023.52,"end":11025.52,"text":"漂移半徑,修正"},{"start":11025.52,"end":11027.52,"text":"然後中間什麼AI,導航軟體"},{"start":11027.52,"end":11029.52,"text":"GPS,INX系統"},{"start":11029.52,"end":11031.52,"text":"這些都可以去研究"},{"start":11031.52,"end":11033.52,"text":"但是你要把這些know how"},{"start":11033.52,"end":11035.52,"text":"跟產業界講,比如說我們台船或其他船長"},{"start":11035.52,"end":11037.52,"text":"他們都很厲害"},{"start":11037.52,"end":11039.52,"text":"你要告訴他說,我這邊"},{"start":11039.52,"end":11041.52,"text":"要安裝什麼導航天線"},{"start":11041.52,"end":11043.52,"text":"這個產業界的配合"},{"start":11043.52,"end":11045.52,"text":"你要把規格給他"},{"start":11045.52,"end":11047.52,"text":"他們絕對做得出來"},{"start":11047.52,"end":11049.52,"text":"那再牽涉到一個問題"},{"start":11049.52,"end":11051.52,"text":"這個也要國防部的配合"},{"start":11051.52,"end":11053.52,"text":"比如說,我們都知道,就二戰爭期間"},{"start":11053.52,"end":11055.52,"text":"都知道說,這個小艇"},{"start":11055.52,"end":11057.52,"text":"前面要裝炸藥"},{"start":11057.52,"end":11059.52,"text":"老師很厲害,他們都已經開發出來"},{"start":11059.52,"end":11061.52,"text":"這個漂移半徑,什麼AI"},{"start":11061.52,"end":11063.52,"text":"人工智慧都解決了"},{"start":11063.52,"end":11065.52,"text":"那台船也很高興,設計出來了"},{"start":11065.52,"end":11067.52,"text":"問題是"},{"start":11066.59,"end":11068.59,"text":"我要驗證炸藥"},{"start":11068.59,"end":11070.59,"text":"我要裝炸藥去驗證"},{"start":11070.59,"end":11072.59,"text":"光是炸藥的取得,就要跟國防部跟軍備局申請"},{"start":11072.59,"end":11074.59,"text":"那個過程是非常非常"},{"start":11074.59,"end":11076.59,"text":"農場"},{"start":11076.59,"end":11078.59,"text":"那我的意思是說,好,那我們如果說"},{"start":11078.59,"end":11080.59,"text":"不管是無人機或無人鐵的需求下"},{"start":11080.59,"end":11082.59,"text":"有這個需求"},{"start":11082.59,"end":11084.59,"text":"那你相關的產業界或國防部"},{"start":11084.59,"end":11086.59,"text":"或經濟部,它的法規的鬆綁"},{"start":11086.59,"end":11088.59,"text":"就要跟著鬆綁"},{"start":11088.59,"end":11090.59,"text":"那不只是試驗的場所"},{"start":11090.59,"end":11092.59,"text":"比如說,像我們海域的試驗場所"},{"start":11092.59,"end":11094.59,"text":"大部分都集中在南部的大澎灣"},{"start":11095.61,"end":11097.61,"text":"海域比較平靜"},{"start":11097.61,"end":11099.61,"text":"海域比較寬闊"},{"start":11099.61,"end":11101.61,"text":"但是我們一般的業界"},{"start":11101.61,"end":11103.61,"text":"都集中在北部"},{"start":11103.61,"end":11105.61,"text":"所以其實我覺得,不管是"},{"start":11105.61,"end":11107.61,"text":"產業界的配合或法規的鬆綁"},{"start":11107.61,"end":11109.61,"text":"其實都應該趁這個時候"},{"start":11109.61,"end":11111.61,"text":"趕快去解決"},{"start":11111.61,"end":11113.61,"text":"因為其實我們不管是各單位都需要"},{"start":11113.61,"end":11115.61,"text":"無人機無人船來對抗外面的勢力"},{"start":11115.61,"end":11117.61,"text":"大概是這樣子"},{"start":11118.99,"end":11120.99,"text":"好,我們謝謝陳主任"},{"start":11120.99,"end":11124.99,"text":"接下來請國政基金會的財政組召集人"},{"start":11124.99,"end":11126.99,"text":"曾俊惠、曾老師"},{"start":11134.24,"end":11136.24,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11136.55,"end":11138.55,"text":"陳教授正在換下衣,就黃色的"},{"start":11139.83,"end":11141.83,"text":"黃色的就是下衣"},{"start":11144.89,"end":11146.89,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":11148.15,"end":11150.15,"text":"有關於今天這個議題"},{"start":11150.15,"end":11152.15,"text":"我大概就是簡單的"},{"start":11152.15,"end":11154.15,"text":"介紹兩個部分"},{"start":11154.15,"end":11156.15,"text":"我覺得是我們討論這個議題"},{"start":11156.15,"end":11158.15,"text":"可能今天"},{"start":11158.15,"end":11160.15,"text":"一直到目前為止"},{"start":11160.15,"end":11162.15,"text":"大家比較沒有"},{"start":11162.15,"end":11164.15,"text":"談太多的部分"},{"start":11164.35,"end":11166.35,"text":"第一個部分"},{"start":11166.86,"end":11168.86,"text":"當然就是他的簡單背景"},{"start":11168.86,"end":11170.86,"text":"他的簡單背景之所以"},{"start":11170.86,"end":11172.86,"text":"我要特別說明"},{"start":11172.86,"end":11174.86,"text":"主要是因為我們在思考這個問題的時候"},{"start":11176.39,"end":11178.39,"text":"有兩個地方"},{"start":11178.39,"end":11180.39,"text":"第一個地方就是"},{"start":11180.39,"end":11182.39,"text":"我們要發展一個產業"},{"start":11182.1,"end":11184.1,"text":"那我們今天強調的是"},{"start":11184.1,"end":11186.1,"text":"無人載具這個產業我們認為很重要"},{"start":11186.1,"end":11188.1,"text":"在現在的這樣一個時代環境背景之下"},{"start":11188.1,"end":11190.1,"text":"讓我們每一個人大概都可以"},{"start":11190.1,"end":11192.1,"text":"接受這樣的一個"},{"start":11192.1,"end":11194.1,"text":"討論"},{"start":11194.16,"end":11196.16,"text":"但是"},{"start":11196.31,"end":11198.31,"text":"無人載具是一個產業"},{"start":11198.31,"end":11200.31,"text":"其他的產業"},{"start":11200.31,"end":11202.31,"text":"假設"},{"start":11202.09,"end":11204.09,"text":"我們認真的檢討的話"},{"start":11204.09,"end":11206.09,"text":"我們會不會也要面對"},{"start":11206.16,"end":11208.16,"text":"像我們今天這樣的討論"},{"start":11208.16,"end":11210.16,"text":"我們有沒有必要為某一個特殊產業"},{"start":11210.16,"end":11212.16,"text":"也花那麼多的時間"},{"start":11212.16,"end":11214.16,"text":"來制定一個專法來解決問題"},{"start":11215.38,"end":11217.38,"text":"無人載具他的特色"},{"start":11217.38,"end":11219.38,"text":"他的特殊性"},{"start":11218.75,"end":11220.75,"text":"相對於其他的可能存在的產業"},{"start":11220.75,"end":11222.75,"text":"我們怎麼樣去看待"},{"start":11222.75,"end":11224.75,"text":"這是第一個我們要思考的問題"},{"start":11224.75,"end":11226.75,"text":"那第二個呢"},{"start":11226.75,"end":11228.75,"text":"就是那無人載具可能"},{"start":11228.75,"end":11230.75,"text":"他比較特殊"},{"start":11230.75,"end":11232.75,"text":"就是因為他中間可能牽涉到"},{"start":11232.75,"end":11234.75,"text":"國防的自主的問題"},{"start":11234.75,"end":11236.75,"text":"他可以扮演武器的角色"},{"start":11236.75,"end":11238.75,"text":"所以他雖然"},{"start":11238.75,"end":11240.75,"text":"也可以有一些民間的用途"},{"start":11240.75,"end":11242.75,"text":"但實際上在用途之間"},{"start":11242.75,"end":11244.75,"text":"他其實有這樣的替代的可能性"},{"start":11244.75,"end":11246.75,"text":"所以讓他在"},{"start":11246.75,"end":11248.75,"text":"討論這個問題的時候"},{"start":11248.75,"end":11250.75,"text":"我們覺得有必要特別去對待"},{"start":11251.77,"end":11253.77,"text":"那也因為這個過程當中"},{"start":11253.77,"end":11255.77,"text":"有這樣的一個情況發生"},{"start":11255.77,"end":11257.77,"text":"所以我們回到我們台灣在"},{"start":11257.77,"end":11259.77,"text":"立法的過程裡面的現實情況"},{"start":11259.77,"end":11261.77,"text":"我們看到的最主要就是"},{"start":11261.77,"end":11263.77,"text":"一開始的時候我們要"},{"start":11263.77,"end":11265.77,"text":"行政院提的是依照"},{"start":11266.34,"end":11268.34,"text":"依照"},{"start":11267.35,"end":11269.35,"text":"二五兆的採購"},{"start":11269.35,"end":11271.35,"text":"那在這個採購當中我們把"},{"start":11271.35,"end":11273.35,"text":"無人載具的部分放在裡頭"},{"start":11273.35,"end":11275.35,"text":"那最後的結果呢是過了七千八"},{"start":11275.35,"end":11277.35,"text":"所以被刪掉了四千"},{"start":11277.35,"end":11279.35,"text":"四千七百億的"},{"start":11279.35,"end":11281.35,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":11281.35,"end":11283.35,"text":"那個部分大部分都是在所謂的"},{"start":11283.35,"end":11285.35,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":11285.35,"end":11287.35,"text":"所以因此呢就行政院的角度來看"},{"start":11287.47,"end":11289.47,"text":"他覺得他有必要"},{"start":11290.38,"end":11292.38,"text":"為了這四千七百億被"},{"start":11293.03,"end":11295.03,"text":"刪掉了以後來爭取"},{"start":11295.7,"end":11297.7,"text":"補救的機會"},{"start":11297.7,"end":11299.7,"text":"所以他就成立了另外一個"},{"start":11299.95,"end":11301.95,"text":"這個"},{"start":11301.22,"end":11303.22,"text":"這個"},{"start":11303.22,"end":11305.22,"text":"這個條例就是我們今天談的主要"},{"start":11305.22,"end":11307.22,"text":"的部分就是國防自主無人載具的"},{"start":11307.22,"end":11309.22,"text":"這個採購特別條例"},{"start":11309.22,"end":11311.22,"text":"那也因為他的背景是這樣"},{"start":11311.22,"end":11313.22,"text":"所以你會發覺他的重點是在採購"},{"start":11313.96,"end":11315.96,"text":"因為前面那個是買是採購"},{"start":11315.96,"end":11317.96,"text":"所以他現在是為了補他"},{"start":11317.96,"end":11319.96,"text":"所以因此他還是在採購"},{"start":11320.12,"end":11322.12,"text":"那也因為這樣所以我們剛剛提到"},{"start":11322.8,"end":11324.8,"text":"如果光是講採購那採購跟產業的發展有什麼關係"},{"start":11326.83,"end":11328.83,"text":"所以因此呢就會引起的更多的委員"},{"start":11328.83,"end":11330.83,"text":"更多的不同的"},{"start":11330.83,"end":11332.83,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":11332.83,"end":11334.83,"text":"這個在野黨的希望能夠"},{"start":11334.83,"end":11336.83,"text":"提版本除了講採購"},{"start":11336.83,"end":11338.83,"text":"的國防部分的軍事"},{"start":11338.83,"end":11340.83,"text":"的概念以外希望能夠"},{"start":11340.83,"end":11342.83,"text":"也回到產業本身"},{"start":11342.83,"end":11344.83,"text":"來看看可不可以找到更好的答案"},{"start":11344.83,"end":11346.83,"text":"來支持他所以因此就形成"},{"start":11346.83,"end":11348.83,"text":"很多版本包括我們召集人的版本"},{"start":11348.83,"end":11350.83,"text":"說實在其實召集人的版本"},{"start":11350.83,"end":11352.83,"text":"說實在的他重點"},{"start":11352.83,"end":11354.83,"text":"其實反而不是在採購"},{"start":11354.83,"end":11356.83,"text":"他其實是在於這個產業的整個的合理的"},{"start":11356.83,"end":11358.83,"text":"更妥善的建立"},{"start":11358.83,"end":11360.83,"text":"所以也因為這樣大家可以看這個"},{"start":11360.83,"end":11362.83,"text":"背景的本身就可以知道"},{"start":11362.83,"end":11364.83,"text":"那我們現在看這個問題我們要我們的"},{"start":11364.83,"end":11366.83,"text":"法治到底在什麼樣的框架"},{"start":11366.83,"end":11368.83,"text":"什麼樣的完善的結構"},{"start":11368.83,"end":11370.83,"text":"之下去定位他"},{"start":11370.83,"end":11372.83,"text":"我覺得這個是我們比較更重要的"},{"start":11372.83,"end":11374.83,"text":"那如果這個問題沒有搞清楚"},{"start":11374.83,"end":11376.83,"text":"我們沒有辦法去談"},{"start":11376.83,"end":11378.83,"text":"我們這個所謂的特別條例本身"},{"start":11378.83,"end":11380.83,"text":"內容的合理性到底"},{"start":11381.53,"end":11383.53,"text":"該是什麼"},{"start":11384.38,"end":11386.38,"text":"在這個情況之下"},{"start":11386.38,"end":11388.38,"text":"接下來就幫大家整理一個很簡單的"},{"start":11388.38,"end":11390.38,"text":"幾個版本"},{"start":11390.38,"end":11392.38,"text":"重要的版本的比較"},{"start":11392.38,"end":11394.38,"text":"包括我們召集人的"},{"start":11394.38,"end":11396.38,"text":"我用兩個部分一個是制度的定位的部分"},{"start":11396.38,"end":11398.38,"text":"一個是所謂的"},{"start":11398.38,"end":11400.38,"text":"這個治理的理念的部分"},{"start":11400.38,"end":11402.38,"text":"因為時間的關係"},{"start":11402.38,"end":11404.38,"text":"就不詳細的每一個都講"},{"start":11404.38,"end":11406.38,"text":"但是大體上我們可以看得出來"},{"start":11406.38,"end":11408.38,"text":"如果我們從我"},{"start":11408.38,"end":11410.38,"text":"整理的這張表裡面"},{"start":11410.38,"end":11412.38,"text":"的幾個項目來看"},{"start":11412.22,"end":11414.22,"text":"在各個版本當中"},{"start":11414.22,"end":11416.22,"text":"你可以看得很清楚的"},{"start":11416.22,"end":11418.22,"text":"知道行政院版本"},{"start":11418.22,"end":11420.22,"text":"特別強調的這個"},{"start":11420.22,"end":11422.22,"text":"部分就是國防自主"},{"start":11422.22,"end":11424.22,"text":"跟所謂的採購制度"},{"start":11425.32,"end":11427.32,"text":"的改革這是部分"},{"start":11427.32,"end":11429.32,"text":"我們如果相對我們召集人的"},{"start":11429.32,"end":11431.32,"text":"版本就看出來其實它的重點放在"},{"start":11431.32,"end":11433.32,"text":"產業政策科技的治理"},{"start":11433.32,"end":11435.32,"text":"包括供應鏈的安全"},{"start":11435.32,"end":11437.32,"text":"包括創新新的生態"},{"start":11437.32,"end":11439.32,"text":"所以很顯然它重點"},{"start":11439.32,"end":11441.32,"text":"其實放的是不一樣"},{"start":11441.32,"end":11443.32,"text":"如果你要跟"},{"start":11443.32,"end":11445.32,"text":"我們召集人的版本比較相近的其實是民眾黨"},{"start":11445.32,"end":11447.32,"text":"的版本它某些部分"},{"start":11447.32,"end":11449.32,"text":"強調的重點比較類似"},{"start":11449.32,"end":11451.32,"text":"這樣幾個版本"},{"start":11451.32,"end":11453.32,"text":"之間的差異"},{"start":11453.32,"end":11455.32,"text":"所以我們要把這個都擺在我們面前"},{"start":11455.32,"end":11457.32,"text":"立法院在審議的時候"},{"start":11457.32,"end":11459.32,"text":"我們到底是應該要用什麼樣的"},{"start":11459.32,"end":11461.32,"text":"一個政策的理念去"},{"start":11461.45,"end":11463.45,"text":"切入我們"},{"start":11463.22,"end":11465.22,"text":"要怎麼樣去做調和"},{"start":11465.63,"end":11467.63,"text":"這是決定了我們未來"},{"start":11467.63,"end":11469.63,"text":"立法院在討論這個問題"},{"start":11469.63,"end":11471.63,"text":"最後所決定的版本"},{"start":11471.63,"end":11473.63,"text":"到底是不是一個真正的"},{"start":11473.14,"end":11475.14,"text":"符合我們台灣需求的"},{"start":11475.14,"end":11477.14,"text":"最後的結果的一個關鍵所在"},{"start":11477.14,"end":11479.14,"text":"所以"},{"start":11479.14,"end":11481.14,"text":"我就花了一點時間把它做整理了以後"},{"start":11481.14,"end":11483.14,"text":"接下來"},{"start":11483.72,"end":11487.72,"text":"用基本上如果要在一個設計法制的概念之下"},{"start":11487.72,"end":11489.72,"text":"我們所應該要進行的方式"},{"start":11489.72,"end":11491.72,"text":"大概去做個思考"},{"start":11491.72,"end":11493.72,"text":"那其中"},{"start":11493.72,"end":11495.72,"text":"當然就是我認為"},{"start":11495.62,"end":11497.62,"text":"我們訂了一個法律這個新的法律"},{"start":11497.62,"end":11499.62,"text":"到底我們要怎麼樣"},{"start":11499.99,"end":11501.99,"text":"定位它"},{"start":11501.99,"end":11503.99,"text":"在現有已有的法律當中我們怎麼樣讓它"},{"start":11504.76,"end":11506.76,"text":"進來了以後扮演一個合理的角色"},{"start":11506.76,"end":11508.76,"text":"所以在這種情況下"},{"start":11508.76,"end":11510.76,"text":"我們就回頭來看這個部分"},{"start":11510.76,"end":11512.76,"text":"我們從預算產業跟採購這三個的關係"},{"start":11512.76,"end":11514.76,"text":"我有一個簡單的圖"},{"start":11514.76,"end":11516.76,"text":"就是我們要發展這個產業"},{"start":11516.76,"end":11518.76,"text":"我們當然需要有經費"},{"start":11518.76,"end":11520.76,"text":"所以經費是最外層"},{"start":11520.76,"end":11522.76,"text":"然後中間這一層是我們的概念"},{"start":11522.76,"end":11524.76,"text":"是要支持這個產業我們要發展產業"},{"start":11524.76,"end":11526.76,"text":"要花錢"},{"start":11526.76,"end":11528.76,"text":"然後在產業發展過程裡面"},{"start":11528.76,"end":11530.76,"text":"我們又發現了其實用採購制度的設計"},{"start":11530.76,"end":11532.76,"text":"在執行的過程裡面"},{"start":11532.76,"end":11534.76,"text":"有機會幫助這個產業發展"},{"start":11534.76,"end":11536.76,"text":"所以這樣一個一環一環的下來以後"},{"start":11536.76,"end":11538.76,"text":"我們發覺"},{"start":11538.76,"end":11540.76,"text":"就我們今天所討論的"},{"start":11540.76,"end":11542.76,"text":"這個"},{"start":11542.41,"end":11544.41,"text":"無人機宅業的產業它比較特別"},{"start":11544.41,"end":11546.41,"text":"就是它採購"},{"start":11546.41,"end":11548.41,"text":"它可以有所謂的軍用"},{"start":11548.41,"end":11550.41,"text":"跟民用的"},{"start":11550.41,"end":11552.41,"text":"它在產業的發展裡面"},{"start":11552.41,"end":11554.41,"text":"它可以使得"},{"start":11554.07,"end":11556.07,"text":"使用在所謂的國防的部分"},{"start":11556.07,"end":11558.07,"text":"它也可以使用在非國防"},{"start":11558.07,"end":11560.07,"text":"就是一般的民間部分"},{"start":11560.07,"end":11562.07,"text":"然後在預算的經費來源裡面"},{"start":11562.07,"end":11564.07,"text":"我們牽涉到的是會有特別的預算"},{"start":11564.07,"end":11566.07,"text":"或是來自有年度的所謂的總預算"},{"start":11566.07,"end":11568.07,"text":"那在這種情況下"},{"start":11568.07,"end":11570.07,"text":"它既然有三層的這樣的概念"},{"start":11570.07,"end":11572.07,"text":"如果再加上我剛剛講的"},{"start":11572.07,"end":11574.07,"text":"國防、民間、軍用、民用"},{"start":11574.07,"end":11576.07,"text":"再加上特別跟總預算"},{"start":11576.07,"end":11578.07,"text":"之間的關係"},{"start":11578.07,"end":11580.07,"text":"你就會發覺我們在立法的時候"},{"start":11580.07,"end":11582.07,"text":"這其實是我們所面對的最大的困擾"},{"start":11582.07,"end":11584.07,"text":"這也是我們現在看到每一個不同的版本"},{"start":11584.07,"end":11586.07,"text":"之間所形成的狀況"},{"start":11586.07,"end":11588.07,"text":"就是有的版本它把重點放在產業的發展"},{"start":11588.07,"end":11590.07,"text":"有的版本它放在"},{"start":11590.07,"end":11592.07,"text":"採購制度的設立"},{"start":11592.07,"end":11594.07,"text":"那怎麼樣解決這個問題呢"},{"start":11594.07,"end":11598.07,"text":"那我個人提出就是我們要用三層雙軌的方式"},{"start":11598.07,"end":11600.07,"text":"第一個先把我們現在有關的"},{"start":11600.07,"end":11602.07,"text":"現有的"},{"start":11603.31,"end":11605.31,"text":"法律先找出來"},{"start":11605.31,"end":11607.31,"text":"譬如說政府採購法"},{"start":11607.31,"end":11609.31,"text":"譬如說產業廠商條例"},{"start":11609.31,"end":11611.31,"text":"譬如說國防產業發展條例"},{"start":11611.31,"end":11613.31,"text":"這都已經現有了"},{"start":11611.11,"end":11613.11,"text":"那我們接下來我們現在新的要放在哪裡"},{"start":11614.65,"end":11616.65,"text":"那我自己經過思考以後"},{"start":11616.65,"end":11618.65,"text":"我覺得我們三層"},{"start":11618.65,"end":11620.65,"text":"第一個是從治理的對象"},{"start":11620.65,"end":11622.65,"text":"第二個從功能上來看分流"},{"start":11622.65,"end":11624.65,"text":"第三個從執行制度的本身"},{"start":11624.65,"end":11626.65,"text":"管理上來去做區隔"},{"start":11626.65,"end":11628.65,"text":"我覺得我們今天談的"},{"start":11628.65,"end":11630.65,"text":"那個所謂的國防自主"},{"start":11630.65,"end":11632.65,"text":"無人載具採購特別條例"},{"start":11632.65,"end":11634.65,"text":"應該要放到第三層的"},{"start":11634.65,"end":11636.65,"text":"那個位置"},{"start":11636.65,"end":11638.65,"text":"左下角的位置"},{"start":11638.65,"end":11640.65,"text":"但是在這樣的情況下"},{"start":11640.65,"end":11642.65,"text":"它只是專注於採購"},{"start":11642.65,"end":11644.65,"text":"能夠發揮產業的發展"},{"start":11644.65,"end":11646.65,"text":"所以真正的無人採具的"},{"start":11646.65,"end":11648.65,"text":"發展應該要到"},{"start":11648.65,"end":11650.65,"text":"最上層"},{"start":11650.65,"end":11652.65,"text":"所以其實立法院不只是"},{"start":11652.98,"end":11654.98,"text":"去考慮下層的採購而已"},{"start":11654.98,"end":11656.98,"text":"更應該要著力的去找"},{"start":11656.98,"end":11658.98,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":11658.98,"end":11660.98,"text":"系統發展的整個"},{"start":11660.98,"end":11662.98,"text":"基本環境的"},{"start":11662.98,"end":11664.98,"text":"建構的那個條例"},{"start":11664.98,"end":11666.98,"text":"那個法律才是關鍵"},{"start":11666.98,"end":11668.98,"text":"那個法律"},{"start":11668.98,"end":11670.98,"text":"其實某種程度上比較趨近於"},{"start":11670.98,"end":11672.98,"text":"我們召集人所提的那個版本"},{"start":11673.41,"end":11675.41,"text":"所以我的建議是"},{"start":11675.56,"end":11677.56,"text":"我們原則上要有三層的概念"},{"start":11677.56,"end":11679.56,"text":"然後在法律的概念"},{"start":11679.56,"end":11681.56,"text":"如果我們真的是關心台灣的這個"},{"start":11681.56,"end":11683.56,"text":"無人載具的這個未來的發展的話"},{"start":11683.56,"end":11685.56,"text":"我們其實不能"},{"start":11685.56,"end":11687.56,"text":"只是討論採購部分"},{"start":11687.56,"end":11689.56,"text":"如何強化買無人載具"},{"start":11689.56,"end":11691.56,"text":"而已 更重要的是"},{"start":11691.56,"end":11693.56,"text":"無人載具的整體環境的那個部分"},{"start":11693.56,"end":11695.56,"text":"那如果我們在法制的建構上"},{"start":11695.56,"end":11697.56,"text":"能夠有這樣三個層次"},{"start":11697.81,"end":11699.81,"text":"我們就可以利用它"},{"start":11699.81,"end":11701.81,"text":"跟現有的法律之間"},{"start":11701.81,"end":11703.81,"text":"做合理的融合跟搭配"},{"start":11703.81,"end":11705.81,"text":"如果是國防的部分的話"},{"start":11705.81,"end":11707.81,"text":"可以按照我現在的圖表裡面講"},{"start":11707.81,"end":11709.81,"text":"國防可以經過國防產業發展法"},{"start":11709.81,"end":11711.81,"text":"然後最後到我們"},{"start":11711.81,"end":11713.81,"text":"現在所討論的採購的部分的"},{"start":11713.81,"end":11715.81,"text":"強化 或者是在民間的部分"},{"start":11715.81,"end":11717.81,"text":"我們也可以利用已經具有的產業"},{"start":11717.81,"end":11719.81,"text":"創新的條例去享受"},{"start":11719.81,"end":11721.81,"text":"一些具有的輔導措施"},{"start":11721.81,"end":11723.81,"text":"然後在採購的部分我們可以"},{"start":11723.81,"end":11725.81,"text":"回到正常的體制的政府採購法當中"},{"start":11725.81,"end":11727.81,"text":"所以假設我們能夠"},{"start":11727.81,"end":11729.81,"text":"有這樣雙軌的體系"},{"start":11729.81,"end":11731.81,"text":"有三個層次的不同"},{"start":11731.81,"end":11733.81,"text":"概念之下所建立起來的"},{"start":11733.81,"end":11735.81,"text":"新的法跟舊的法之間的相互融合"},{"start":11735.81,"end":11737.81,"text":"我覺得這個是我們立法院"},{"start":11737.81,"end":11739.81,"text":"未來在討論那麼多的版本的"},{"start":11739.81,"end":11741.81,"text":"這個不同的"},{"start":11741.81,"end":11743.81,"text":"這個內容的這個"},{"start":11743.81,"end":11745.81,"text":"相關的法律過程當中"},{"start":11745.81,"end":11747.81,"text":"最好的一個解決方式"},{"start":11747.81,"end":11749.81,"text":"這是我對這個問題的看法提供參考"},{"start":11749.81,"end":11751.81,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11752.37,"end":11754.37,"text":"好 非常謝謝"},{"start":11754.37,"end":11756.37,"text":"曾老師 曾召集人"},{"start":11756.37,"end":11758.37,"text":"謝謝老師的抬愛"},{"start":11758.37,"end":11760.37,"text":"特別把我的版本也量來做比較"},{"start":11760.37,"end":11762.37,"text":"不過很可惜那個版本"},{"start":11762.37,"end":11764.37,"text":"因為後來受到在野黨的抵制"},{"start":11764.37,"end":11766.37,"text":"一直沒有辦法交互審查"},{"start":11766.37,"end":11768.37,"text":"現在還擱置在我們的程序委員會裡面"},{"start":11768.37,"end":11770.37,"text":"那後來我也被迫"},{"start":11770.37,"end":11772.37,"text":"另提一個版本稍微調整"},{"start":11772.37,"end":11774.37,"text":"避免民眾黨的懷疑"},{"start":11774.37,"end":11776.37,"text":"因為剛剛從您的分析當中"},{"start":11776.37,"end":11778.37,"text":"我的雷同住最高是民眾黨黨團"},{"start":11778.37,"end":11780.37,"text":"不曉得是不是因此遭到抵制"},{"start":11780.37,"end":11782.37,"text":"我們接下來就有請我們的"},{"start":11782.37,"end":11784.37,"text":"14位"},{"start":11784.37,"end":11786.37,"text":"我們國立政治大學的陳柏良陳教授"},{"start":11786.37,"end":11788.37,"text":"請"},{"start":11788.52,"end":11790.52,"text":"請"},{"start":11801.68,"end":11803.68,"text":"好 主席"},{"start":11803.68,"end":11805.68,"text":"在場各位先進還有各位委員大家好"},{"start":11805.68,"end":11807.68,"text":"今天非常榮幸是有機會受邀到這裡"},{"start":11807.68,"end":11809.68,"text":"那我從上禮拜受到電話"},{"start":11809.68,"end":11811.68,"text":"那個什麼受邀來這裡以後"},{"start":11811.68,"end":11813.68,"text":"我就跟曾老師一樣"},{"start":11813.68,"end":11815.68,"text":"是很嚴肅的把目前我手上"},{"start":11815.68,"end":11817.68,"text":"和網路上看到7個版本"},{"start":11817.68,"end":11819.68,"text":"然後很快的做一次研究跟比對"},{"start":11819.68,"end":11821.68,"text":"那我就 因為我知道今天時間有限"},{"start":11821.68,"end":11823.68,"text":"所以我先整理一份powerpoint"},{"start":11823.68,"end":11825.68,"text":"一個印出來給大家參考"},{"start":11826.08,"end":11828.08,"text":"從這7個版本的比較研究裡面"},{"start":11828.08,"end":11830.08,"text":"其實我跟意見其實有蠻多"},{"start":11830.08,"end":11832.08,"text":"跟曾老師剛剛的意見是一致的"},{"start":11832.08,"end":11834.08,"text":"因為我在研究這個版本的時候"},{"start":11834.08,"end":11836.08,"text":"第一個注意到的是各個版本的主管機關非常混亂"},{"start":11836.08,"end":11838.08,"text":"有些講的是國防部"},{"start":11838.65,"end":11840.65,"text":"有些講的是經濟部"},{"start":11840.65,"end":11842.65,"text":"有些講的是要成立特別委員會"},{"start":11842.65,"end":11844.65,"text":"那我那時候就開始想說"},{"start":11844.65,"end":11846.65,"text":"為什麼主管機關會差這麼多"},{"start":11848.78,"end":11850.78,"text":"那就是看主管機關大家就會"},{"start":11850.78,"end":11852.78,"text":"就是各種主管機關都有"},{"start":11852.78,"end":11854.78,"text":"那接下來我就注意到一件事情"},{"start":11854.97,"end":11856.97,"text":"因為各個版本一開始其實我們"},{"start":11856.97,"end":11858.97,"text":"算看到7個版本了"},{"start":11858.97,"end":11860.97,"text":"但事實上基本上是兩個軸線或兩個方向在走"},{"start":11860.97,"end":11862.97,"text":"第一個是國防特別採購"},{"start":11863.63,"end":11865.63,"text":"第二個是產業發展條例"},{"start":11865.63,"end":11867.63,"text":"那其實我剛剛我的意見其實跟曾老師的意見"},{"start":11867.63,"end":11869.63,"text":"是非常 曾教授的意見是非常接近"},{"start":11869.63,"end":11871.63,"text":"就認為國防採購跟"},{"start":11872.13,"end":11874.13,"text":"產業發展應該是雙軌制"},{"start":11874.13,"end":11876.13,"text":"所以如果這樣立法體力來說"},{"start":11876.13,"end":11878.13,"text":"或主管機關的角度來看"},{"start":11878.13,"end":11880.13,"text":"應該是拆成兩部立法"},{"start":11880.13,"end":11882.13,"text":"而不是應該合成一本"},{"start":11882.13,"end":11884.13,"text":"那這個部分就跟那次保委員的那個提案"},{"start":11884.13,"end":11886.13,"text":"大方向上很接近是應該拆成"},{"start":11886.13,"end":11888.13,"text":"拆成兩個部分"},{"start":11888.13,"end":11890.13,"text":"那我也認為是如果既然拆成兩個的話"},{"start":11890.13,"end":11892.13,"text":"那應該就分開審查"},{"start":11892.13,"end":11894.13,"text":"國防採購條例那就由那個國防委員會審查"},{"start":11894.13,"end":11896.13,"text":"那產業生技條例或產業發展條例的話"},{"start":11896.13,"end":11898.13,"text":"那就把它當成是經濟委員會來審查"},{"start":11898.13,"end":11900.13,"text":"這是第一個部分"},{"start":11900.13,"end":11902.13,"text":"好"},{"start":11901.97,"end":11903.97,"text":"所以我就認為是預算跟"},{"start":11903.97,"end":11905.97,"text":"國防預算跟產業應該要分流"},{"start":11907.57,"end":11909.57,"text":"好,那下一個就是"},{"start":11909.17,"end":11911.17,"text":"另外一個問題就是我們台灣在2019年"},{"start":11911.17,"end":11913.17,"text":"已經曾經通過"},{"start":11913.17,"end":11915.17,"text":"無人載具科技創新實驗條例"},{"start":11915.17,"end":11917.17,"text":"那再來就是我們現在"},{"start":11917.17,"end":11919.17,"text":"在面對就剛剛不管是產業界的代表"},{"start":11919.17,"end":11921.17,"text":"在表達意見的時候"},{"start":11921.17,"end":11923.17,"text":"一直在反應是說不管是認證的那個"},{"start":11923.17,"end":11925.17,"text":"手續非常繁雜,不管是經濟部交通部"},{"start":11925.17,"end":11927.17,"text":"民航局什麼,要跑各個單位"},{"start":11927.17,"end":11929.17,"text":"像大地遊戲一樣"},{"start":11929.17,"end":11931.17,"text":"那再來就是不管是空中的"},{"start":11931.17,"end":11933.17,"text":"地上的水上的,要跑的也通通不一樣"},{"start":11933.17,"end":11935.17,"text":"要跑的單位不一樣"},{"start":11935.17,"end":11937.17,"text":"而且再來是先測試還是先認證"},{"start":11937.17,"end":11939.17,"text":"這個問題始終一直非常困擾"},{"start":11939.17,"end":11941.17,"text":"那如果是從這個角度來看的話"},{"start":11941.17,"end":11943.17,"text":"我們現在去思考一個問題是"},{"start":11943.17,"end":11945.17,"text":"我們與其去想一個"},{"start":11945.17,"end":11947.17,"text":"完全嶄新的無人載具或"},{"start":11947.17,"end":11949.17,"text":"無人機的產業發展條例"},{"start":11949.17,"end":11951.17,"text":"我的建議是說我們回頭來看"},{"start":11951.17,"end":11953.17,"text":"第一個我們現行的民航法怎麼規定"},{"start":11953.17,"end":11955.17,"text":"第二個我們先來看我們2019年當時"},{"start":11955.17,"end":11957.17,"text":"過的那個無人載具"},{"start":11957.17,"end":11959.17,"text":"產業創新發展條例,當時怎麼寫"},{"start":11959.17,"end":11961.17,"text":"那我的目前我的建議"},{"start":11961.17,"end":11963.17,"text":"立法建議是這樣"},{"start":11963.17,"end":11965.17,"text":"我們目前就是各個委員提出來這些"},{"start":11965.17,"end":11967.17,"text":"所謂的產業創新發展條例這版本"},{"start":11967.17,"end":11969.17,"text":"去跟既有的2019年的"},{"start":11969.17,"end":11971.17,"text":"無人載具產業創新條例"},{"start":11971.17,"end":11973.17,"text":"去做整合"},{"start":11973.17,"end":11975.17,"text":"直接開始銜接,否則我們當時會出現"},{"start":11975.17,"end":11977.17,"text":"通過一個新法"},{"start":11977.17,"end":11979.17,"text":"舊法又沒有廢掉,那就變成"},{"start":11979.17,"end":11981.17,"text":"疊床架物,那如果是從這兩個法律"},{"start":11982.48,"end":11984.48,"text":"不管是民航法還是2019年"},{"start":11984.48,"end":11986.48,"text":"那個無人載具產業創新條例的話"},{"start":11986.48,"end":11988.48,"text":"我們先來看哪些東西需要"},{"start":11988.48,"end":11990.48,"text":"調整,那第一個"},{"start":11990.48,"end":11992.48,"text":"我們在2019年那個無人載具"},{"start":11992.48,"end":11994.48,"text":"產業創新條例最大的問題就是"},{"start":11994.48,"end":11996.48,"text":"租管機關只是經濟部"},{"start":11996.37,"end":11998.37,"text":"稅收導致說經濟部"},{"start":11998.86,"end":12000.86,"text":"馬賽克"},{"start":12000.27,"end":12002.27,"text":"他跟交通部的關係"},{"start":12002.27,"end":12004.27,"text":"跟國防部的關係,跟NCC的關係"},{"start":12004.27,"end":12006.27,"text":"那這個就出現很多"},{"start":12006.27,"end":12008.27,"text":"很進合的部分,那當然就行政成本"},{"start":12008.27,"end":12010.27,"text":"會非常高,那所以我的建議是說"},{"start":12010.27,"end":12012.27,"text":"如果我們要特設一個委員會的話"},{"start":12012.27,"end":12014.27,"text":"那應該拉高層級,而且是長設化"},{"start":12014.27,"end":12016.27,"text":"把他拉到行政院那個層級"},{"start":12016.27,"end":12018.27,"text":"那我已經有看到不管是民眾黨的版本"},{"start":12018.27,"end":12020.27,"text":"或是有其中,不管是或中委員的"},{"start":12020.27,"end":12022.27,"text":"版本也都有提到類似的問題,就是說"},{"start":12022.27,"end":12024.27,"text":"成立特別委員會,那這個委員會的話"},{"start":12024.27,"end":12026.27,"text":"至少要有政務委員"},{"start":12026.27,"end":12028.27,"text":"或是副院長那個等級來做造詫"},{"start":12028.27,"end":12030.27,"text":"現在也是要把它長設化"},{"start":12030.27,"end":12032.27,"text":"才有辦法做單一窗口"},{"start":12032.27,"end":12034.27,"text":"不管是認證的監管上的單一窗口來進行整合"},{"start":12034.27,"end":12036.27,"text":"那包括還有我們"},{"start":12036.27,"end":12038.27,"text":"今天一直在討論測試場域要怎麼規劃"},{"start":12038.27,"end":12040.27,"text":"還有所謂的空中走廊應該怎麼規劃"},{"start":12040.27,"end":12042.27,"text":"還有在產品上市的那個"},{"start":12042.27,"end":12044.27,"text":"門檻,資安"},{"start":12044.27,"end":12046.27,"text":"還有或是那個沙盒的部分怎麼規劃"},{"start":12046.27,"end":12048.27,"text":"我認為是這個已經要走到跨部會的層級"},{"start":12050.3,"end":12052.3,"text":"好,那下一個就是我們剛剛在講"},{"start":12052.3,"end":12056.3,"text":"如果是2019年那個無人載具產業創新條例裡面"},{"start":12056.3,"end":12059.3,"text":"我們當時在第六條,只有寫了一個是審查會議"},{"start":12059.3,"end":12061.3,"text":"但是那個審查會議是主案式、個案式"},{"start":12061.3,"end":12063.3,"text":"而不是一個長設化的"},{"start":12063.3,"end":12066.3,"text":"那我的建議是說,如果我們要把它變成是一個跨部會的"},{"start":12066.3,"end":12070.3,"text":"由行政院那個等級的跨部會的一個長設的會議的話"},{"start":12070.3,"end":12072.3,"text":"第一個我們要長設化"},{"start":12072.3,"end":12074.3,"text":"第二個是,不只是提高層級"},{"start":12074.3,"end":12076.3,"text":"第三個是我們要納入外部委員"},{"start":12076.3,"end":12078.3,"text":"那接著我們從今天的整個公聽會裡面"},{"start":12078.3,"end":12082.3,"text":"也會注意到,各個產業界的專家也都在表示"},{"start":12083.02,"end":12086.02,"text":"無人載具的它的迭代更新的速度非常快"},{"start":12086.02,"end":12088.02,"text":"所以就變成,如果我們在這個委員會成立的時候"},{"start":12088.02,"end":12091.02,"text":"我建議是第一個,不但要納入外部專家"},{"start":12091.02,"end":12093.02,"text":"主要是在於是要向民間染財"},{"start":12093.02,"end":12095.02,"text":"那如果一旦長設化跟民間染財的時候"},{"start":12095.02,"end":12097.02,"text":"我們就必須要克服兩個問題"},{"start":12097.02,"end":12099.02,"text":"第一個是我們目前的那個"},{"start":12099.41,"end":12101.41,"text":"那個什麼行政院總員而法"},{"start":12101.41,"end":12103.41,"text":"我們對那個總員而法那個人數"},{"start":12103.41,"end":12106.41,"text":"這邊就必須要去做一個排除的例外適用"},{"start":12106.41,"end":12108.41,"text":"那再來第二個就是我們對那個"},{"start":12108.41,"end":12110.41,"text":"現在公務員的奉及法"},{"start":12110.41,"end":12112.41,"text":"依照傳統的公務員長設的那個"},{"start":12112.92,"end":12114.92,"text":"那個標準的話"},{"start":12114.92,"end":12116.92,"text":"其實會不會在產業界很難染財"},{"start":12116.92,"end":12118.92,"text":"很難染財"},{"start":12118.92,"end":12120.92,"text":"所以我的建議是在這邊如果要去"},{"start":12120.92,"end":12122.92,"text":"修正,不管是要修我們的產業創新條例"},{"start":12122.92,"end":12124.92,"text":"或是各個委員"},{"start":12124.92,"end":12126.92,"text":"不管是那個中委員、賴委員"},{"start":12126.92,"end":12128.92,"text":"或者是"},{"start":12128.41,"end":12130.41,"text":"民眾版本或其他各個版本"},{"start":12130.41,"end":12132.41,"text":"在提案說那個委員會的"},{"start":12132.41,"end":12134.41,"text":"委員的來源還有裡面的"},{"start":12134.41,"end":12136.41,"text":"那個委員會裡面的組成方式的時候"},{"start":12136.41,"end":12138.41,"text":"我建議這個部分是要納進來考慮"},{"start":12140.16,"end":12142.16,"text":"好,那接下來是我們"},{"start":12142.16,"end":12144.16,"text":"有一個蠻重要的問題就是說"},{"start":12144.16,"end":12146.16,"text":"我們一直在討論說怎麼不只是跟民間攬炸"},{"start":12146.16,"end":12148.16,"text":"還有鼓勵中小企業或是"},{"start":12148.16,"end":12150.16,"text":"民間的資本能夠投入"},{"start":12150.16,"end":12151.16,"text":"這個無人"},{"start":12151.16,"end":12153.16,"text":"不管是無人載具或是無人機長期的"},{"start":12153.16,"end":12155.16,"text":"這個產業發展"},{"start":12155.16,"end":12157.16,"text":"但是我們必須強調是說如果從"},{"start":12157.16,"end":12159.16,"text":"非安的角度來看"},{"start":12159.16,"end":12160.16,"text":"非安永遠是第一"},{"start":12160.16,"end":12162.16,"text":"那我們也看到上個月"},{"start":12162.16,"end":12164.16,"text":"26號在北京的那個中興大廈"},{"start":12164.16,"end":12167.16,"text":"也曾經發生過撞到大廈的事件"},{"start":12167.16,"end":12169.16,"text":"所以我其實認為是說我們在"},{"start":12169.16,"end":12171.16,"text":"如果在制定那個產業發展條例的時候"},{"start":12171.16,"end":12173.16,"text":"一方面是我們的民航法"},{"start":12173.16,"end":12175.16,"text":"99之1到19"},{"start":12175.16,"end":12177.16,"text":"那邊過去對於遙控無人機的一些規劃"},{"start":12177.16,"end":12179.16,"text":"其實第一個他當時想的是"},{"start":12179.16,"end":12181.16,"text":"市區內"},{"start":12181.16,"end":12183.16,"text":"而且他規定是不能夜間飛行"},{"start":12183.16,"end":12185.16,"text":"而且不能投資任何東西"},{"start":12185.16,"end":12187.16,"text":"那我的建議是民航法那邊"},{"start":12187.31,"end":12189.31,"text":"當時修正的時候是2018年"},{"start":12189.75,"end":12191.75,"text":"我們也知道2018到現在已經過了8年"},{"start":12191.75,"end":12193.75,"text":"當時無人機長跟現在已經完全不合適了"},{"start":12193.75,"end":12195.75,"text":"所以就變成我們民航法"},{"start":12195.75,"end":12197.75,"text":"99之1到19"},{"start":12197.75,"end":12199.75,"text":"必須要重新制定"},{"start":12199.75,"end":12201.75,"text":"那我個人的研究是這樣"},{"start":12201.75,"end":12203.75,"text":"美國目前是FAA他們是"},{"start":12203.75,"end":12205.75,"text":"傳統規定無人機是在part 107"},{"start":12205.75,"end":12207.75,"text":"但是今年有一個"},{"start":12207.75,"end":12209.75,"text":"part 108是草案"},{"start":12209.75,"end":12211.75,"text":"那已經公開了"},{"start":12211.75,"end":12213.75,"text":"那預計是今年秋天有可能就會正式頒布"},{"start":12213.75,"end":12215.75,"text":"那所以我的建議是說如果"},{"start":12215.75,"end":12217.75,"text":"因為剛剛蠻多學者專家或者是"},{"start":12217.75,"end":12219.75,"text":"產業界的代表都要反應說"},{"start":12219.75,"end":12221.75,"text":"那個法規其實很難適用"},{"start":12221.75,"end":12223.75,"text":"那我也同意"},{"start":12225.24,"end":12227.24,"text":"美國有注意到這件事情"},{"start":12227.24,"end":12229.24,"text":"所以美國把它放在行政命令那個層級"},{"start":12229.24,"end":12231.24,"text":"不是放在法律"},{"start":12231.24,"end":12233.24,"text":"所以就變成是說每一次產業迭代更新"},{"start":12233.24,"end":12235.24,"text":"或技術創新的時候"},{"start":12235.24,"end":12237.24,"text":"不用每一次再來走他們參眾兩院"},{"start":12237.24,"end":12239.24,"text":"那個三讀通過的程序"},{"start":12239.24,"end":12241.24,"text":"也不用再走立法院"},{"start":12241.24,"end":12243.24,"text":"我的建議是比較接近我們類似"},{"start":12243.24,"end":12245.24,"text":"那個急性傳染病防治法"},{"start":12245.24,"end":12247.24,"text":"我們當急性傳染病防治法在制定的時候"},{"start":12247.24,"end":12249.24,"text":"我們無法想像2003年無法想像是"},{"start":12249.24,"end":12251.24,"text":"2019年2020年會出現一個COVID-19"},{"start":12251.37,"end":12253.37,"text":"所以就變成我們應該是在"},{"start":12253.66,"end":12255.66,"text":"要仿照這個模式要先定一個框架"},{"start":12255.66,"end":12257.66,"text":"是立法以後要必須授權"},{"start":12257.66,"end":12259.66,"text":"這個跨部會新的主管機關"},{"start":12259.66,"end":12261.66,"text":"跟委員會由他來發布行政命令"},{"start":12261.66,"end":12263.66,"text":"然後才有辦法去做一個疊代更新"},{"start":12263.66,"end":12265.66,"text":"跟行政命令能夠針對"},{"start":12265.66,"end":12267.66,"text":"這個非安的那個標準"},{"start":12267.66,"end":12269.66,"text":"去制定新的規則"},{"start":12269.66,"end":12271.66,"text":"我們台灣目前如果要"},{"start":12271.66,"end":12273.66,"text":"剛剛也有蠻多產業界代表或是學者專家"},{"start":12273.66,"end":12275.66,"text":"在討論說怎麼跟國際接軌"},{"start":12275.66,"end":12277.66,"text":"那還不管是我們要採購的"},{"start":12277.66,"end":12279.66,"text":"或是目前技術合作的對象"},{"start":12279.66,"end":12281.66,"text":"很大一部分是跟美國的廠商或是美國技術對接"},{"start":12281.66,"end":12283.66,"text":"那所以美國FAA的108"},{"start":12283.66,"end":12285.66,"text":"他們用行政命令的方式"},{"start":12285.66,"end":12287.66,"text":"怎麼樣轉換"},{"start":12287.66,"end":12289.66,"text":"成台灣的規定"},{"start":12289.66,"end":12291.66,"text":"那才有辦法讓我們在不管是安全性的認證"},{"start":12291.66,"end":12293.66,"text":"或是其他的認證"},{"start":12293.66,"end":12295.66,"text":"不管是資安安全性或機體的認證"},{"start":12295.66,"end":12297.66,"text":"能夠開始跟國際對接"},{"start":12297.66,"end":12299.66,"text":"那這個不只是促進台灣產業界"},{"start":12299.66,"end":12301.66,"text":"跟國際的對接的可能性"},{"start":12301.66,"end":12303.66,"text":"還有在將來出口的時候"},{"start":12303.66,"end":12305.66,"text":"我們才能減少我們的出口"},{"start":12305.66,"end":12307.66,"text":"的一些成本"},{"start":12307.66,"end":12309.66,"text":"這是一些對非安的想像"},{"start":12309.66,"end":12311.66,"text":"那所以最後"},{"start":12311.66,"end":12313.66,"text":"簡單來說我的建議有四點"},{"start":12313.66,"end":12315.66,"text":"第一個建議是說我們是要"},{"start":12315.66,"end":12317.66,"text":"那個採購條例跟產業發展條例"},{"start":12317.66,"end":12319.66,"text":"應該分流立法"},{"start":12319.66,"end":12321.66,"text":"第二個是說我們在制定產業條例"},{"start":12321.66,"end":12323.66,"text":"或是要在討論各個版本產業條例"},{"start":12323.66,"end":12325.66,"text":"我的建議是把之前的"},{"start":12325.66,"end":12327.66,"text":"無人載具實驗創新"},{"start":12327.66,"end":12329.66,"text":"條例拿進來我們一起重新"},{"start":12329.66,"end":12331.66,"text":"來思考到底是要制定一個新的法"},{"start":12331.66,"end":12333.66,"text":"然後把舊的法廢掉"},{"start":12333.66,"end":12335.66,"text":"還是我們直接去修當年2019年"},{"start":12335.66,"end":12337.66,"text":"那個無人載具產業創新條例"},{"start":12337.66,"end":12339.66,"text":"第三個是主管機關的部分"},{"start":12339.66,"end":12341.66,"text":"我會認為是既有的"},{"start":12341.66,"end":12343.66,"text":"不管是經濟部產業發展"},{"start":12343.66,"end":12345.66,"text":"或是我們民航法用民航局"},{"start":12345.66,"end":12347.66,"text":"來管制做監管機關的話"},{"start":12347.66,"end":12349.66,"text":"因為接下來"},{"start":12349.66,"end":12351.66,"text":"剛剛有很多專家都討論到是"},{"start":12351.66,"end":12353.66,"text":"接下來無人載具它已經是空中飛的"},{"start":12353.66,"end":12355.66,"text":"地上走的跟水上游的"},{"start":12355.66,"end":12357.66,"text":"它沒辦法再用一個民航局單一的機關"},{"start":12357.66,"end":12359.66,"text":"來承載"},{"start":12359.66,"end":12361.66,"text":"所以我們設計的不只是主管機關還有包括監管機關"},{"start":12361.66,"end":12363.66,"text":"應該要往上拉"},{"start":12363.66,"end":12365.66,"text":"因為已經到時候想是一個多功能"},{"start":12365.66,"end":12367.66,"text":"所以不應該再由既有的民航局或交通部"},{"start":12367.66,"end":12369.66,"text":"一個單一的主管機關來承載"},{"start":12369.66,"end":12371.66,"text":"第四個"},{"start":12371.66,"end":12373.66,"text":"不管是產業創新"},{"start":12373.66,"end":12375.66,"text":"或是國防採購"},{"start":12375.66,"end":12377.66,"text":"或是我們台灣的無人載具將來的發展"},{"start":12377.66,"end":12379.66,"text":"我認為交通安全和飛安"},{"start":12379.66,"end":12381.66,"text":"永遠是第一的"},{"start":12381.66,"end":12383.66,"text":"市場準度門檻怎麼重新設計"},{"start":12383.66,"end":12385.66,"text":"那我也看到中央委員"},{"start":12385.66,"end":12387.66,"text":"不管是武力中小企業的投入或企業的投入"},{"start":12387.66,"end":12389.66,"text":"或是飛安的這邊"},{"start":12389.66,"end":12391.66,"text":"有制定滿多新的一些規則"},{"start":12391.66,"end":12393.66,"text":"那我覺得這個地方我們是可以把FAA的"},{"start":12393.66,"end":12395.66,"text":"108的精神納進來"},{"start":12395.66,"end":12397.66,"text":"那我們可以繼續討論"},{"start":12397.66,"end":12399.66,"text":"謝謝各位"},{"start":12399.36,"end":12403.36,"text":"好非常感謝陳教授的一個精闢的發言"},{"start":12403.36,"end":12409.36,"text":"那最後我們請國立台北商業大學的黃耀輝黃教授請"},{"start":12423.37,"end":12425.37,"text":"時間有限我就直接發言了"},{"start":12425.37,"end":12427.37,"text":"我準備了這個pourpoint"},{"start":12427.37,"end":12429.37,"text":"呃"},{"start":12429.73,"end":12431.73,"text":"把我的意見呢"},{"start":12431.73,"end":12433.73,"text":"跟大家分享"},{"start":12435.62,"end":12437.62,"text":"我"},{"start":12437.19,"end":12439.19,"text":"花了"},{"start":12438.83,"end":12440.83,"text":"一些時間"},{"start":12440.83,"end":12442.83,"text":"把我拿到的"},{"start":12442.83,"end":12444.83,"text":"四個版本"},{"start":12444.83,"end":12446.83,"text":"行政院還有綠圍版"},{"start":12446.83,"end":12448.83,"text":"還有民眾黨版還有國民黨版"},{"start":12448.83,"end":12450.83,"text":"四個我都看完"},{"start":12450.83,"end":12452.83,"text":"看完了之後呢"},{"start":12452.83,"end":12454.83,"text":"我的心得呢是"},{"start":12454.49,"end":12456.49,"text":"這個怎麼動不會動下一頁"},{"start":12457.75,"end":12459.75,"text":"呃"},{"start":12458.74,"end":12460.74,"text":"黃色的是"},{"start":12460.74,"end":12462.74,"text":"我先講結論"},{"start":12462.74,"end":12464.74,"text":"結論就是"},{"start":12464.74,"end":12466.74,"text":"我看到"},{"start":12466.56,"end":12468.56,"text":"行政院版呢"},{"start":12468.19,"end":12470.19,"text":"非常的潮帥非常的空洞"},{"start":12470.19,"end":12472.19,"text":"我大概兩分鐘就看完了"},{"start":12472.19,"end":12474.19,"text":"看到那個內容呢"},{"start":12474.19,"end":12476.19,"text":"我就不知道他這個"},{"start":12478.72,"end":12480.72,"text":"貼過條例"},{"start":12479.99,"end":12481.99,"text":"怎麼根本"},{"start":12481.99,"end":12483.99,"text":"如何能夠發展我們本土的"},{"start":12483.99,"end":12485.99,"text":"無人宅具產業呢"},{"start":12485.99,"end":12487.99,"text":"所以後來我就是看"},{"start":12487.99,"end":12489.99,"text":"看一下那個民眾黨版的"},{"start":12489.99,"end":12491.99,"text":"他呢甚至拉高層次"},{"start":12491.99,"end":12493.99,"text":"把美國的"},{"start":12493.99,"end":12495.99,"text":"release"},{"start":12495.99,"end":12497.99,"text":"releasing"},{"start":12497.69,"end":12499.69,"text":"American"},{"start":12499.16,"end":12501.16,"text":"裝"},{"start":12500.79,"end":12502.79,"text":"Dominance"},{"start":12502.79,"end":12504.79,"text":"去年發布的行政命令"},{"start":12504.79,"end":12506.79,"text":"都把它整個都把它"},{"start":12506.79,"end":12508.79,"text":"納入他們的這個版本"},{"start":12508.79,"end":12510.79,"text":"然後國民黨"},{"start":12510.79,"end":12512.79,"text":"也提出了23個條文"},{"start":12512.79,"end":12514.79,"text":"所以整個"},{"start":12514.79,"end":12516.79,"text":"我的感覺"},{"start":12516.96,"end":12518.96,"text":"藍白版呢確實比較"},{"start":12518.96,"end":12520.96,"text":"有點在用心扶植"},{"start":12520.96,"end":12522.96,"text":"本土產業的概念"},{"start":12522.96,"end":12524.96,"text":"所以我直接下個結論就是"},{"start":12526.04,"end":12528.04,"text":"我是非常支持發展"},{"start":12528.59,"end":12530.59,"text":"台灣無人宅具"},{"start":12530.59,"end":12532.59,"text":"自主本土的產業鏈"},{"start":12532.59,"end":12534.59,"text":"那如果竟然要這樣做的話"},{"start":12534.59,"end":12536.59,"text":"那就應該拉高到行政院的層級"},{"start":12536.59,"end":12538.59,"text":"要做跨部會整合"},{"start":12538.59,"end":12540.59,"text":"而不應該由國防部來主導"},{"start":12540.59,"end":12542.59,"text":"因為國防部來主導的話"},{"start":12542.59,"end":12544.59,"text":"他就是採購嘛"},{"start":12544.59,"end":12546.59,"text":"採購採購他管理什麼本土產業"},{"start":12546.59,"end":12548.59,"text":"什麼獨立自主"},{"start":12548.59,"end":12550.59,"text":"不可能這樣做"},{"start":12550.59,"end":12552.59,"text":"那另外一個部分呢就是"},{"start":12552.59,"end":12554.59,"text":"我們要訂立專法我完全同意"},{"start":12554.59,"end":12556.59,"text":"但是特別專法不一定要代表"},{"start":12556.59,"end":12558.59,"text":"你可以編列特別預算不可"},{"start":12558.59,"end":12560.59,"text":"而且現在的特別預算"},{"start":12560.59,"end":12562.59,"text":"編列確實非常浮亂"},{"start":12562.59,"end":12564.59,"text":"賴政府兩年"},{"start":12564.59,"end":12566.59,"text":"這個特別預算就編列了"},{"start":12566.59,"end":12568.59,"text":"1.9兆"},{"start":12568.59,"end":12570.59,"text":"要不是藍白把它砍了4700億的話"},{"start":12570.59,"end":12572.59,"text":"他就是"},{"start":12572.59,"end":12574.59,"text":"現在變成1.47兆"},{"start":12574.59,"end":12576.59,"text":"實際上這個"},{"start":12576.59,"end":12578.59,"text":"特別預算才兩年就編列"},{"start":12578.59,"end":12580.59,"text":"1.47兆"},{"start":12580.59,"end":12582.59,"text":"是非常的浮亂"},{"start":12582.59,"end":12584.59,"text":"所以我是認為不應該再編特別條例"},{"start":12584.59,"end":12586.59,"text":"那放在一般的普通預算的話"},{"start":12586.59,"end":12588.59,"text":"就跟其他各部會競爭資源"},{"start":12588.59,"end":12590.59,"text":"主計總署就透過"},{"start":12590.59,"end":12592.59,"text":"臨時預算來管控"},{"start":12592.59,"end":12594.59,"text":"誰哪個部門用資源"},{"start":12594.59,"end":12596.59,"text":"比較有效率"},{"start":12596.59,"end":12598.59,"text":"那就優先分配給他"},{"start":12598.59,"end":12600.59,"text":"那你這帶著"},{"start":12600.59,"end":12602.59,"text":"要扶植本土產業的使命"},{"start":12602.59,"end":12604.59,"text":"那你主計總署"},{"start":12604.59,"end":12606.59,"text":"覺得你表現得很好"},{"start":12606.59,"end":12608.59,"text":"當然就願意撥款"},{"start":12608.59,"end":12610.59,"text":"撥預算給國防部"},{"start":12610.59,"end":12612.59,"text":"來採購"},{"start":12612.59,"end":12614.59,"text":"如果是針對本土的產業"},{"start":12614.59,"end":12616.59,"text":"那當然就更值得做了"},{"start":12616.59,"end":12618.59,"text":"最後的第三點"},{"start":12620.69,"end":12622.69,"text":"結論就是"},{"start":12622.63,"end":12624.63,"text":"其實不一定要花那麼多預算"},{"start":12624.63,"end":12626.63,"text":"像國民黨的版本要花"},{"start":12626.63,"end":12628.63,"text":"2400億"},{"start":12628.63,"end":12630.63,"text":"我認為可能太多了"},{"start":12630.63,"end":12632.63,"text":"如果你能夠確定"},{"start":12632.63,"end":12634.63,"text":"他是一個長期的概念"},{"start":12634.63,"end":12636.63,"text":"的話"},{"start":12637.94,"end":12639.94,"text":"行政資源包括產創條例"},{"start":12639.94,"end":12641.94,"text":"有租稅減免"},{"start":12641.94,"end":12643.94,"text":"還有一些國發基金"},{"start":12643.94,"end":12645.94,"text":"那邊也可以提供一些投農資"},{"start":12645.94,"end":12647.94,"text":"來參與我們"},{"start":12647.94,"end":12649.94,"text":"本土我們宅居產業類的發展"},{"start":12649.94,"end":12651.94,"text":"好"},{"start":12651.94,"end":12653.94,"text":"所以接下來我就一一平息"},{"start":12653.94,"end":12655.94,"text":"各個版本"},{"start":12655.94,"end":12657.94,"text":"綠版的部分其實正院版跟立委版"},{"start":12657.94,"end":12659.94,"text":"我們"},{"start":12659.22,"end":12661.22,"text":"一模一樣"},{"start":12661.22,"end":12663.22,"text":"當然不是跟我們主席的版本"},{"start":12663.22,"end":12665.22,"text":"無關因為我們還沒看到他"},{"start":12665.22,"end":12667.22,"text":"立委版的部分"},{"start":12667.22,"end":12669.22,"text":"就是把行政院版本"},{"start":12669.22,"end":12671.22,"text":"加了一句總說明"},{"start":12671.22,"end":12673.22,"text":"罵了說在野黨你給我"},{"start":12673.22,"end":12675.22,"text":"34700億"},{"start":12675.22,"end":12677.22,"text":"罵完之後"},{"start":12677.22,"end":12679.22,"text":"跟行政院版本幾乎一模一樣"},{"start":12679.22,"end":12681.22,"text":"幾乎一模一樣"},{"start":12681.22,"end":12683.22,"text":"總說明多了一個批評"},{"start":12683.22,"end":12685.22,"text":"所以我去看了一下"},{"start":12685.22,"end":12687.22,"text":"光看這個條例的名稱"},{"start":12687.22,"end":12689.22,"text":"就是自相矛盾"},{"start":12689.22,"end":12691.22,"text":"你們叫做採購特別條例"},{"start":12691.22,"end":12693.22,"text":"那個採購如何以實現"},{"start":12693.22,"end":12695.22,"text":"你明治投"},{"start":12695.68,"end":12697.68,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":12697.68,"end":12699.68,"text":"採購如何"},{"start":12700.27,"end":12702.27,"text":"如何實現國防自主"},{"start":12702.27,"end":12704.27,"text":"本身就是文不對題"},{"start":12704.27,"end":12706.27,"text":"那"},{"start":12706.37,"end":12708.37,"text":"第二個就是國防部那採購"},{"start":12708.37,"end":12710.37,"text":"他是預算驅動"},{"start":12711.31,"end":12713.31,"text":"他就只透過這個預算"},{"start":12713.31,"end":12715.31,"text":"保障"},{"start":12715.31,"end":12717.31,"text":"然後就有預算"},{"start":12717.31,"end":12719.31,"text":"就有採購"},{"start":12719.31,"end":12721.31,"text":"沒預算"},{"start":12721.31,"end":12723.31,"text":"產業到時候怎麼發展"},{"start":12724.17,"end":12726.17,"text":"中斷了怎麼辦"},{"start":12726.17,"end":12728.17,"text":"要不是撐死就是餓死"},{"start":12728.17,"end":12730.17,"text":"那怎麼辦"},{"start":12730.17,"end":12732.17,"text":"所以這樣搞下去"},{"start":12732.17,"end":12734.17,"text":"單純的採購的話"},{"start":12734.17,"end":12736.17,"text":"他根本不理我們的產業自主"},{"start":12736.17,"end":12738.17,"text":"也沒辦法應對他自己講的"},{"start":12738.17,"end":12740.17,"text":"所以要應對國際競爭"},{"start":12739.85,"end":12741.85,"text":"好"},{"start":12742.6,"end":12744.6,"text":"政院版的總說明"},{"start":12744.6,"end":12746.6,"text":"第三段"},{"start":12746.04,"end":12748.04,"text":"第一段看起來"},{"start":12748.04,"end":12750.04,"text":"一下又張飛一下又是岳飛"},{"start":12750.04,"end":12752.04,"text":"怎麼講呢"},{"start":12752.04,"end":12754.04,"text":"無人採據產業"},{"start":12754.04,"end":12756.04,"text":"國安戰略重要的關節"},{"start":12756.04,"end":12758.04,"text":"對當然是對"},{"start":12758.04,"end":12760.04,"text":"然後他說為了防範什麼"},{"start":12760.04,"end":12762.04,"text":"後門資安風險"},{"start":12762.04,"end":12764.04,"text":"他就講說我們要打造"},{"start":12764.04,"end":12766.04,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12766.04,"end":12768.04,"text":"我就想奇怪了"},{"start":12768.04,"end":12770.04,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12770.34,"end":12772.34,"text":"就沒有國安的問題嗎"},{"start":12772.34,"end":12774.34,"text":"就沒有後門資安的風險嗎"},{"start":12774.34,"end":12776.34,"text":"當然有"},{"start":12776.34,"end":12778.34,"text":"然後飛鴻關於我們國防部什麼事"},{"start":12778.34,"end":12782.34,"text":"國防部就需要打造飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12782.34,"end":12784.34,"text":"打造美國的供應鏈"},{"start":12784.34,"end":12786.34,"text":"跟國防部有什麼關係"},{"start":12786.94,"end":12788.94,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈需要你國防部去用"},{"start":12788.94,"end":12790.94,"text":"經費支持他嗎"},{"start":12790.94,"end":12792.94,"text":"然後第一條"},{"start":12792.94,"end":12794.94,"text":"第一條就叫打造供應鏈"},{"start":12794.94,"end":12796.94,"text":"建立要打造供應鏈"},{"start":12796.94,"end":12798.94,"text":"建立放在立法目的"},{"start":12798.94,"end":12800.94,"text":"然後下面說明一個說"},{"start":12800.94,"end":12802.94,"text":"我要打造在地供應自主產自主"},{"start":12802.94,"end":12804.94,"text":"自主維修目標後視國防"},{"start":12804.94,"end":12806.94,"text":"自主能力然後借本土"},{"start":12806.94,"end":12808.94,"text":"產業來迅速啪啪啪"},{"start":12808.94,"end":12810.94,"text":"奇怪了"},{"start":12810.94,"end":12812.9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:"透過一個"},{"start":13010.84,"end":13012.84,"text":"採購委員會"},{"start":13012.84,"end":13014.84,"text":"規劃委員會的"},{"start":13014.84,"end":13016.84,"text":"方式"},{"start":13016.84,"end":13018.84,"text":"來"},{"start":13018.54,"end":13020.54,"text":"我們看一下民眾黨這個版本"},{"start":13020.54,"end":13022.54,"text":"他就是"},{"start":13022.54,"end":13024.54,"text":"希望能夠成立這個"},{"start":13024.54,"end":13026.54,"text":"戰略特別委員會我覺得這個有高度"},{"start":13026.54,"end":13028.54,"text":"統籌的規劃帶動"},{"start":13028.59,"end":13030.59,"text":"不只是國防自主讓我們的本土產業能夠發展"},{"start":13030.59,"end":13032.59,"text":"國民黨的版本這個部分"},{"start":13032.59,"end":13034.59,"text":"雖然寫了23條"},{"start":13034.59,"end":13036.59,"text":"但是我確認"},{"start":13036.59,"end":13038.59,"text":"他這個部分"},{"start":13038.59,"end":13040.59,"text":"有些東西可能會有一些"},{"start":13040.59,"end":13042.59,"text":"摯愛難行之處"},{"start":13042.59,"end":13044.59,"text":"所以他經費是2400億"},{"start":13044.59,"end":13046.59,"text":"但是我認為可能"},{"start":13046.59,"end":13048.59,"text":"要考慮到將來執行上的一些困難"},{"start":13048.59,"end":13050.59,"text":"所以最後結論就是"},{"start":13050.59,"end":13052.59,"text":"一樣"},{"start":13052.59,"end":13054.59,"text":"我們既然認為無人機產業"},{"start":13054.59,"end":13056.59,"text":"是我們國家戰略的"},{"start":13057.23,"end":13059.23,"text":"地位很重要"},{"start":13059.23,"end":13061.23,"text":"那麼就請全力"},{"start":13061.23,"end":13063.23,"text":"來支持我們的本土產業"},{"start":13063.23,"end":13065.23,"text":"就不應該由國防部"},{"start":13065.23,"end":13067.23,"text":"來主導"},{"start":13067.23,"end":13069.23,"text":"應該由行政院層級的高度"},{"start":13069.23,"end":13071.23,"text":"來成立一個特別的委員會"},{"start":13071.23,"end":13073.23,"text":"然後來規劃"},{"start":13073.23,"end":13075.23,"text":"如何"},{"start":13075.91,"end":13077.91,"text":"逐年"},{"start":13077.91,"end":13079.91,"text":"落實我們本土自治"},{"start":13079.91,"end":13081.91,"text":"達到這個目標"},{"start":13081.91,"end":13083.91,"text":"讓我們本土產業能夠"},{"start":13083.91,"end":13085.91,"text":"興起成為AI產業的另一半"},{"start":13085.91,"end":13087.91,"text":"的第二個更重要的產業鏈"},{"start":13087.91,"end":13089.91,"text":"如果不這樣做的話"},{"start":13089.91,"end":13091.91,"text":"只透過採購我們全世界"},{"start":13091.91,"end":13093.91,"text":"拜拜"},{"start":13092.3,"end":13094.3,"text":"都要外國去的"},{"start":13094.14,"end":13096.14,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13096.41,"end":13098.41,"text":"好"},{"start":13097.48,"end":13099.48,"text":"今天應邀到場的學者專家"},{"start":13099.48,"end":13101.48,"text":"及登記發言的委員"},{"start":13101.48,"end":13103.48,"text":"均已發言完畢"},{"start":13103.48,"end":13105.48,"text":"接下來我們就讓行政機關"},{"start":13105.48,"end":13107.48,"text":"來做整體回應"},{"start":13107.48,"end":13109.48,"text":"那我就逐一來請教"},{"start":13109.48,"end":13111.48,"text":"我們在場的行政機關"},{"start":13111.48,"end":13113.48,"text":"有沒有要做進步的回應"},{"start":13113.48,"end":13115.48,"text":"那首先經濟部"},{"start":13114.93,"end":13116.93,"text":"怎麼樣 來 請"},{"start":13119.84,"end":13121.84,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":13121.84,"end":13123.84,"text":"首先感謝今天所有"},{"start":13123.84,"end":13125.84,"text":"與會代表給我們"},{"start":13125.84,"end":13127.84,"text":"那麼多寶貴的建議"},{"start":13127.84,"end":13129.84,"text":"各面向都有"},{"start":13129.84,"end":13131.84,"text":"那我這邊做經濟部"},{"start":13131.84,"end":13133.84,"text":"權責的部分"},{"start":13133.84,"end":13135.84,"text":"來做回應"},{"start":13135.84,"end":13137.84,"text":"第一個 我想跟大家說明"},{"start":13137.84,"end":13139.84,"text":"我們經濟部"},{"start":13139.84,"end":13141.84,"text":"過去發展產業"},{"start":13141.84,"end":13143.84,"text":"其實就主要的一個"},{"start":13143.84,"end":13145.84,"text":"法規基礎就是產業創新"},{"start":13145.84,"end":13147.84,"text":"條例"},{"start":13147.84,"end":13149.84,"text":"在更早之前就是"},{"start":13149.84,"end":13151.84,"text":"促進產業升級條例"},{"start":13151.84,"end":13153.84,"text":"在更早之前就是獎勵投資條例"},{"start":13153.84,"end":13155.84,"text":"那這三個條例"},{"start":13155.84,"end":13157.84,"text":"其實有一個非常明確的任務"},{"start":13157.84,"end":13159.84,"text":"就是用相關的一些工具"},{"start":13159.84,"end":13161.84,"text":"來協助我們的產業發展"},{"start":13161.84,"end":13163.84,"text":"包含我們的租稅優惠"},{"start":13163.84,"end":13165.84,"text":"包含我們的人才培育"},{"start":13165.84,"end":13167.84,"text":"還有研發補助"},{"start":13167.84,"end":13169.84,"text":"還有相關的產業輔導"},{"start":13169.84,"end":13171.84,"text":"等等"},{"start":13171.84,"end":13173.84,"text":"這些我們來發展產業的"},{"start":13173.84,"end":13175.84,"text":"一些工具或手段"},{"start":13175.84,"end":13177.84,"text":"其實法源都在產業創新條例裡面"},{"start":13177.84,"end":13179.84,"text":"其實法源都在產業創新條例裡面"},{"start":13179.84,"end":13181.84,"text":"那我們過去也沒有"},{"start":13181.84,"end":13183.84,"text":"針對一個單一的特別產業"},{"start":13183.84,"end":13185.84,"text":"來設置一個個別的"},{"start":13185.84,"end":13187.84,"text":"條例 只有一個"},{"start":13187.84,"end":13189.84,"text":"就是"},{"start":13189.84,"end":13191.84,"text":"生技醫藥產業發展條例"},{"start":13191.84,"end":13193.84,"text":"那為什麼要針對生技醫藥"},{"start":13193.84,"end":13195.84,"text":"產業發展條例對一個個別產業"},{"start":13195.84,"end":13197.84,"text":"來設置一個條例是因為"},{"start":13197.84,"end":13199.84,"text":"這個產業它有它的特殊性"},{"start":13199.84,"end":13201.84,"text":"它是必須經過非常"},{"start":13201.84,"end":13203.84,"text":"長時間的投入"},{"start":13203.84,"end":13205.84,"text":"還有可能回收"},{"start":13205.84,"end":13207.84,"text":"所以在這樣的前提之下"},{"start":13207.84,"end":13209.84,"text":"它跟其他的產業的發展特性"},{"start":13209.84,"end":13211.84,"text":"不同 所以必須要有一個"},{"start":13211.84,"end":13213.84,"text":"特別的規範 特別的規定"},{"start":13213.84,"end":13215.84,"text":"來訂定一個這個產業"},{"start":13215.84,"end":13217.84,"text":"發展條例來協助某"},{"start":13217.84,"end":13219.84,"text":"這個特別的一個產業"},{"start":13219.84,"end":13221.84,"text":"那其他的產業剛才很多委員"},{"start":13221.84,"end":13223.84,"text":"也提到包含我們的半導體"},{"start":13223.84,"end":13225.84,"text":"包含我們的ICT 包含我們的"},{"start":13225.84,"end":13227.84,"text":"面板 我們的石化 我們的"},{"start":13227.84,"end":13229.84,"text":"鋼鐵 非常多我們的"},{"start":13229.84,"end":13231.84,"text":"這些多樣的"},{"start":13231.84,"end":13233.84,"text":"產業其實我們都沒有一個個別的"},{"start":13233.84,"end":13235.84,"text":"產業發展條例來幫忙它"},{"start":13235.84,"end":13237.84,"text":"這個我要跟大家說明"},{"start":13237.84,"end":13239.84,"text":"其實經濟部在發展產業"},{"start":13239.84,"end":13241.84,"text":"就是用產業創新條例"},{"start":13241.84,"end":13243.84,"text":"的一些相關工具"},{"start":13243.84,"end":13245.84,"text":"再搭配我們的一些"},{"start":13245.84,"end":13247.84,"text":"個別的產業的發展計劃"},{"start":13249.13,"end":13251.13,"text":"就不是一個條例 就是計劃"},{"start":13251.13,"end":13253.13,"text":"我們針對每一個產業的發展"},{"start":13253.13,"end":13255.13,"text":"都會訂定它的一個"},{"start":13255.13,"end":13257.13,"text":"發展的策略 發展的方向"},{"start":13257.13,"end":13259.13,"text":"推動的一些工作項目"},{"start":13259.13,"end":13261.13,"text":"當然也有KPI 當然"},{"start":13261.13,"end":13263.13,"text":"這個我們就是編在年度預算"},{"start":13263.13,"end":13265.13,"text":"裡面來逐步的推動"},{"start":13265.13,"end":13267.13,"text":"所以在經濟部的體系裡面"},{"start":13267.13,"end":13269.13,"text":"除了一個產業創新條例以外"},{"start":13269.13,"end":13271.13,"text":"其他就是透過編列公務"},{"start":13271.13,"end":13273.13,"text":"預算 用產業的"},{"start":13273.13,"end":13275.13,"text":"發展的計劃來推動"},{"start":13275.13,"end":13277.13,"text":"各項的產業的發展"},{"start":13277.13,"end":13279.13,"text":"這個方向上面"},{"start":13279.13,"end":13281.13,"text":"要先跟大家做一個釐清"},{"start":13281.13,"end":13283.13,"text":"所以在無人機產業"},{"start":13283.13,"end":13285.13,"text":"這一塊 我們也是一樣"},{"start":13285.13,"end":13287.13,"text":"我們現在正在執行的"},{"start":13287.13,"end":13289.13,"text":"包含我們給這些業者"},{"start":13289.13,"end":13291.13,"text":"研發補助 包含做一些"},{"start":13291.13,"end":13293.13,"text":"人才培育 包含協助他們"},{"start":13293.13,"end":13295.13,"text":"出國參展 這些"},{"start":13295.13,"end":13297.13,"text":"其實都是在編列公務預算"},{"start":13297.13,"end":13299.13,"text":"裡面每年度來協助他們"},{"start":13299.13,"end":13301.13,"text":"也沒有條例 就一直在執行"},{"start":13301.13,"end":13303.13,"text":"也就是我一開頭"},{"start":13303.13,"end":13305.13,"text":"在跟大家報告的就是所謂"},{"start":13305.13,"end":13307.13,"text":"統籌型計劃的內容"},{"start":13307.13,"end":13309.13,"text":"那統籌型計劃未來的"},{"start":13309.13,"end":13311.13,"text":"6年我們編了442億元"},{"start":13312.04,"end":13314.04,"text":"剛才我說的這些協助事項"},{"start":13314.04,"end":13316.04,"text":"全部都是用公務預算來編列"},{"start":13316.04,"end":13318.04,"text":"來協助廠商 這個是我們"},{"start":13318.04,"end":13320.04,"text":"經濟部一直在做的"},{"start":13320.04,"end":13322.04,"text":"但是今天有另外一個"},{"start":13322.04,"end":13324.04,"text":"一件事情就是國防部"},{"start":13324.04,"end":13326.04,"text":"提了一個"},{"start":13326.02,"end":13328.02,"text":"國防自主無人載具的"},{"start":13328.02,"end":13330.02,"text":"一個採購條例 特別條例"},{"start":13330.02,"end":13332.02,"text":"這個是基本上"},{"start":13332.02,"end":13334.02,"text":"是基於國防部需要"},{"start":13334.02,"end":13336.02,"text":"這些無人載具 在國防自主"},{"start":13336.02,"end":13338.02,"text":"方面需要 所以他們"},{"start":13338.02,"end":13340.02,"text":"必須要去做這樣的採購"},{"start":13340.02,"end":13342.02,"text":"那因為這個費用是2,100億"},{"start":13342.02,"end":13344.02,"text":"比較大量 那需要"},{"start":13344.02,"end":13346.02,"text":"希望在6年內能夠有"},{"start":13346.02,"end":13348.02,"text":"一個這樣子足夠的經費來去"},{"start":13348.02,"end":13350.02,"text":"做這些無人載具的採購 所以"},{"start":13350.02,"end":13352.02,"text":"提出了這樣的特別條例 或者是"},{"start":13352.02,"end":13354.02,"text":"特別預算"},{"start":13353.49,"end":13355.49,"text":"它是基於國防自主的需要"},{"start":13355.49,"end":13357.49,"text":"所以訂了"},{"start":13357.91,"end":13359.91,"text":"可是這樣子的行為"},{"start":13359.91,"end":13361.91,"text":"發生之後 其實是對產業發展"},{"start":13361.91,"end":13363.91,"text":"會有幫助"},{"start":13363.91,"end":13365.91,"text":"它不是為了產業發展而訂了這一個"},{"start":13365.91,"end":13367.91,"text":"特別條例 是訂了這個特別"},{"start":13367.91,"end":13369.91,"text":"條例之後會有助於產業發展"},{"start":13369.91,"end":13371.91,"text":"所以我們剛才"},{"start":13371.91,"end":13373.91,"text":"提到我們經濟部發展"},{"start":13373.91,"end":13375.91,"text":"產業會從市場面"},{"start":13375.91,"end":13377.91,"text":"會從技術面 會從環境"},{"start":13377.91,"end":13379.91,"text":"會從法規去全盤"},{"start":13379.91,"end":13381.91,"text":"來考慮 而國防部的"},{"start":13381.91,"end":13383.91,"text":"這個特別條例是在市場面的部分"},{"start":13383.91,"end":13385.91,"text":"來給我們加持"},{"start":13385.91,"end":13387.91,"text":"但是並不代表產業發展"},{"start":13387.91,"end":13389.91,"text":"只要這一個特別條例就夠了"},{"start":13389.91,"end":13391.91,"text":"還有其他面向必須去照顧"},{"start":13391.91,"end":13393.91,"text":"但是這些面向需不需要"},{"start":13393.91,"end":13395.91,"text":"定一個專法"},{"start":13396,"end":13398,"text":"這個是可以來討論"},{"start":13398,"end":13400,"text":"那目前經濟部是沒有"},{"start":13400,"end":13402,"text":"針對個別產業定專法"},{"start":13402,"end":13404,"text":"當然除了生技醫藥產業以外"},{"start":13404,"end":13406,"text":"這個跟大家先做"},{"start":13406,"end":13408,"text":"這樣的第一點的說明"},{"start":13408,"end":13410,"text":"那第二點的部分"},{"start":13411.57,"end":13413.57,"text":"剛才很多代表"},{"start":13413.57,"end":13415.57,"text":"有提到我們統籌型計畫裡面"},{"start":13415.57,"end":13417.57,"text":"我剛才說的這個四個面向"},{"start":13417.57,"end":13419.57,"text":"其實非常多的建議都非常"},{"start":13419.57,"end":13421.57,"text":"我們都記在心中"},{"start":13421.57,"end":13423.57,"text":"那有很多我們目前還做不到"},{"start":13423.57,"end":13425.57,"text":"做不足的部分我們都會檢討"},{"start":13425.57,"end":13427.57,"text":"不過我還是要"},{"start":13427.57,"end":13429.57,"text":"跟大家分享的是"},{"start":13429.57,"end":13431.57,"text":"其實我們在市場面"},{"start":13431.57,"end":13433.57,"text":"除了剛才我提的"},{"start":13433.57,"end":13435.57,"text":"軍用的這個無人載具"},{"start":13435.57,"end":13437.57,"text":"的採購以外"},{"start":13437.57,"end":13439.57,"text":"我們其實在公務部門的無人機採購"},{"start":13439.57,"end":13441.57,"text":"其實在統籌型計畫裡面"},{"start":13441.57,"end":13443.57,"text":"也編了三年"},{"start":13443.57,"end":13445.57,"text":"93億元的一個"},{"start":13445.57,"end":13447.57,"text":"一個採購需求"},{"start":13447.57,"end":13449.57,"text":"那這個採購需求其實就是"},{"start":13449.57,"end":13451.57,"text":"各公務部門他們在執行"},{"start":13451.57,"end":13453.57,"text":"業務的時候可以運用"},{"start":13453.57,"end":13455.57,"text":"無人機來去做一些協助"},{"start":13455.57,"end":13457.57,"text":"那這個其實就某種"},{"start":13457.57,"end":13459.57,"text":"部分就是在做應用"},{"start":13459.57,"end":13461.57,"text":"服務的一個一個練兵"},{"start":13461.57,"end":13463.57,"text":"我們目前所採取的策略"},{"start":13463.57,"end":13465.57,"text":"是先由公務部門"},{"start":13465.57,"end":13467.57,"text":"帶頭採購無人機開始"},{"start":13467.57,"end":13469.57,"text":"讓大家能夠看到"},{"start":13469.57,"end":13471.57,"text":"其實無人機可以做"},{"start":13471.57,"end":13473.57,"text":"各方面的一些協助"},{"start":13473.57,"end":13475.57,"text":"的工作也就是很多應用"},{"start":13475.57,"end":13477.57,"text":"服務的導向可以開始來進行"},{"start":13477.57,"end":13479.57,"text":"未來我們也希望產業"},{"start":13479.57,"end":13481.57,"text":"能夠投入在這個"},{"start":13481.57,"end":13483.57,"text":"應用服務裡面不是只有"},{"start":13483.57,"end":13485.57,"text":"單純無人機整機包含零"},{"start":13485.57,"end":13487.57,"text":"組件的一些製造而已"},{"start":13487.57,"end":13489.57,"text":"我們也希望發展應用服務面向"},{"start":13489.57,"end":13491.57,"text":"那另外呢我們"},{"start":13491.57,"end":13493.57,"text":"也協助也組成了267"},{"start":13493.57,"end":13495.57,"text":"家廠商的這個"},{"start":13495.57,"end":13497.57,"text":"無人機聯盟"},{"start":13497.5,"end":13499.5,"text":"那這無人機聯盟就包含"},{"start":13499.5,"end":13501.5,"text":"從系統到模組到零組件"},{"start":13501.5,"end":13503.5,"text":"其實所有廠商都有"},{"start":13503.5,"end":13505.5,"text":"而且分佈在北中南"},{"start":13505.5,"end":13507.5,"text":"那我們有統計過其實北部"},{"start":13507.5,"end":13509.5,"text":"本身從系統到零組件"},{"start":13509.5,"end":13511.5,"text":"中部南部其實都各自"},{"start":13511.5,"end":13513.5,"text":"可以形成一個獨立的系統"},{"start":13513.5,"end":13515.5,"text":"也是分散也可以等於說"},{"start":13515.5,"end":13517.5,"text":"是分散也包含了整個"},{"start":13517.5,"end":13519.5,"text":"韌性所以整個台灣"},{"start":13519.5,"end":13521.5,"text":"北中南地區"},{"start":13521.5,"end":13523.5,"text":"都有完整的無人機的"},{"start":13523.5,"end":13525.5,"text":"產製的系統"},{"start":13525.5,"end":13527.5,"text":"這個我們也提供這些廠商"},{"start":13527.5,"end":13529.5,"text":"能夠出國參展的"},{"start":13529.5,"end":13531.5,"text":"補助那因為他們是"},{"start":13531.5,"end":13533.5,"text":"大家組成的是國家隊"},{"start":13533.5,"end":13535.5,"text":"出國參展我們就用台灣管"},{"start":13535.5,"end":13537.5,"text":"大家都是聚集在一起"},{"start":13537.5,"end":13539.5,"text":"來共同來做行銷的工作"},{"start":13539.5,"end":13541.5,"text":"那如果這個"},{"start":13541.5,"end":13543.5,"text":"115年的公務預算"},{"start":13543.5,"end":13545.5,"text":"如果立法院這邊還沒有審查完畢"},{"start":13545.5,"end":13547.5,"text":"的話就會影響到我們"},{"start":13547.5,"end":13549.5,"text":"這些廠商參展的一些相關"},{"start":13549.5,"end":13551.5,"text":"補助的工作"},{"start":13551.5,"end":13553.5,"text":"所以我們也希望立法院能夠"},{"start":13553.5,"end":13555.5,"text":"協助我們行政部門趕快把這個"},{"start":13555.5,"end":13557.5,"text":"115年度的預算能夠順利的"},{"start":13557.5,"end":13559.5,"text":"通過好那在技術面"},{"start":13559.5,"end":13561.5,"text":"剛才大家提的非常多"},{"start":13561.5,"end":13563.5,"text":"那也要跟大家講"},{"start":13563.5,"end":13565.5,"text":"技術面的部分我們要談非"},{"start":13565.5,"end":13567.5,"text":"紅跟國產"},{"start":13567.28,"end":13569.28,"text":"其實目前全世界"},{"start":13569.28,"end":13571.28,"text":"無人機的商機其實"},{"start":13571.28,"end":13573.28,"text":"他們要的是非紅"},{"start":13573.59,"end":13575.59,"text":"他們沒有要百分之百MIT"},{"start":13575.59,"end":13577.59,"text":"所以我們國內"},{"start":13577.59,"end":13579.59,"text":"廠商在追尋"},{"start":13579.59,"end":13581.59,"text":"市場商機的時候我們非紅"},{"start":13581.59,"end":13583.59,"text":"是最基本的要件因"},{"start":13583.59,"end":13585.59,"text":"此我們經濟部也協助"},{"start":13585.59,"end":13587.59,"text":"我們國內廠商盤點國內的"},{"start":13587.59,"end":13589.59,"text":"這些生產製造能量當然"},{"start":13589.59,"end":13591.59,"text":"有一部分是國內"},{"start":13591.59,"end":13593.59,"text":"目前還是沒辦法生產製造"},{"start":13593.59,"end":13595.59,"text":"必須由國外進口"},{"start":13595.59,"end":13597.59,"text":"來外購的方式來補助"},{"start":13597.59,"end":13599.59,"text":"但是外國"},{"start":13599.59,"end":13601.59,"text":"採購只要不是跟對岸"},{"start":13601.59,"end":13603.59,"text":"中國採購其他的國家採購"},{"start":13603.59,"end":13605.59,"text":"其實都是符合"},{"start":13605.59,"end":13607.59,"text":"非紅供應鏈的要求"},{"start":13607.59,"end":13609.59,"text":"那為什麼大家要非紅供應鏈主要就是"},{"start":13609.59,"end":13611.59,"text":"資安的顧慮"},{"start":13611.59,"end":13613.59,"text":"資安就影響到國安一台無人機"},{"start":13613.59,"end":13615.59,"text":"上面其實是都看得到的"},{"start":13615.59,"end":13617.59,"text":"什麼東西都看得到那如果"},{"start":13617.59,"end":13619.59,"text":"有有這個紅色供應鏈"},{"start":13619.59,"end":13621.59,"text":"的東西讓他看到了"},{"start":13621.59,"end":13623.59,"text":"這個無人機飛行的軌跡看到"},{"start":13623.59,"end":13625.59,"text":"了所有的地理環境其實這個"},{"start":13625.59,"end":13627.59,"text":"就是國安的問題"},{"start":13627.59,"end":13629.59,"text":"所以每個國家都希望非紅供應鏈"},{"start":13629.59,"end":13631.59,"text":"經濟部也是協助廠商在做"},{"start":13631.59,"end":13633.59,"text":"非紅供應鏈的建立"},{"start":13633.59,"end":13635.59,"text":"這是第一步"},{"start":13634.66,"end":13636.66,"text":"但是我剛才提到非紅供應鏈裡面"},{"start":13636.66,"end":13638.66,"text":"還是有很多外購的"},{"start":13638.66,"end":13640.66,"text":"關鍵零組件經濟部希望"},{"start":13640.66,"end":13642.66,"text":"把這個關鍵零組件能夠"},{"start":13642.66,"end":13644.66,"text":"建立自己國家自己本土"},{"start":13644.66,"end":13646.66,"text":"的能量因此我們就"},{"start":13646.66,"end":13648.66,"text":"建立了這一個所謂的研發"},{"start":13648.66,"end":13650.66,"text":"補助的計畫我們在未來"},{"start":13650.66,"end":13652.66,"text":"的五六年當中我們會把"},{"start":13652.66,"end":13654.66,"text":"我們目前的技術缺口"},{"start":13654.66,"end":13656.66,"text":"把它逐步的來補齊"},{"start":13656.66,"end":13658.66,"text":"這個也就是在統籌型計畫"},{"start":13658.66,"end":13660.66,"text":"442億裡面其中有143"},{"start":13660.66,"end":13662.66,"text":"億我們就是在做這些"},{"start":13662.66,"end":13664.66,"text":"技術的缺口補齊"},{"start":13664.66,"end":13666.66,"text":"做一些相關的研發補助"},{"start":13666.66,"end":13668.66,"text":"我們研發補助也不是只針對"},{"start":13668.66,"end":13670.66,"text":"廠商其實我們會看他的"},{"start":13670.66,"end":13672.66,"text":"技術成就度我們有跟學界"},{"start":13672.66,"end":13674.66,"text":"合作有學界科專有"},{"start":13674.66,"end":13676.66,"text":"所謂的法人科專"},{"start":13676.66,"end":13678.66,"text":"還有一些我們的業界科專"},{"start":13678.66,"end":13680.66,"text":"那當然學界法人"},{"start":13680.66,"end":13682.66,"text":"跟業界彼此之間"},{"start":13682.66,"end":13684.66,"text":"也可以相互的合作這個部分"},{"start":13684.66,"end":13686.66,"text":"我們都是在跨部會包含"},{"start":13686.66,"end":13688.66,"text":"國防部包含國科會"},{"start":13688.66,"end":13690.66,"text":"還有我們經濟部三方"},{"start":13690.66,"end":13692.66,"text":"來做一些共同的一些研擬的相關工作"},{"start":13695.14,"end":13697.14,"text":"那再來是這個"},{"start":13697.67,"end":13699.67,"text":"法規面剛才有提到Green UAS"},{"start":13699.67,"end":13701.67,"text":"或者是Blue UAS"},{"start":13701.67,"end":13703.67,"text":"Blue UAS大家都知道這個是美國"},{"start":13703.67,"end":13705.67,"text":"採購他們軍用無人機的一個驗證"},{"start":13705.67,"end":13707.67,"text":"標準那另外一個"},{"start":13707.67,"end":13709.67,"text":"美國的Green UAS是"},{"start":13709.67,"end":13711.67,"text":"他們民用無人機的一個驗證"},{"start":13711.67,"end":13713.67,"text":"標準那他們有"},{"start":13713.67,"end":13715.67,"text":"他們的驗證單位都是在美國"},{"start":13715.67,"end":13717.67,"text":"本土的驗證"},{"start":13717.67,"end":13719.67,"text":"過去如果台灣的廠商"},{"start":13719.67,"end":13721.67,"text":"要去爭取美國的"},{"start":13721.67,"end":13723.67,"text":"這個軍方或者是"},{"start":13723.67,"end":13725.67,"text":"公務部門的無人機的一個"},{"start":13725.67,"end":13727.67,"text":"採購的商機都必須要得到"},{"start":13727.67,"end":13729.67,"text":"去美國當地驗證"},{"start":13729.67,"end":13731.67,"text":"那得到驗證之後才有辦法"},{"start":13731.67,"end":13733.67,"text":"進入的這個採購的這個"},{"start":13733.67,"end":13735.67,"text":"金標的環節但是"},{"start":13735.67,"end":13737.67,"text":"我們經濟部也是協助公園"},{"start":13737.67,"end":13739.67,"text":"院把這一個"},{"start":13739.67,"end":13741.67,"text":"Green UAS的這個驗證的工作"},{"start":13742.37,"end":13744.37,"text":"讓他在美國海外"},{"start":13744.37,"end":13746.37,"text":"第一個地方就是我們台灣"},{"start":13746.37,"end":13748.37,"text":"能夠在台灣落地做驗證"},{"start":13748.37,"end":13750.37,"text":"也就是說未來國"},{"start":13750.37,"end":13752.37,"text":"內的廠商要爭取美國"},{"start":13752.37,"end":13754.37,"text":"的這個這個民用無人機"},{"start":13754.37,"end":13756.37,"text":"的商機公務用的商機"},{"start":13756.37,"end":13758.37,"text":"只要在台灣跟公園院來"},{"start":13758.37,"end":13760.37,"text":"申請來做得到驗證之後"},{"start":13760.37,"end":13762.37,"text":"美國那邊就得到相對"},{"start":13762.37,"end":13764.37,"text":"的承認這個大幅"},{"start":13764.37,"end":13766.37,"text":"縮減了我們業界的這個時間跟"},{"start":13766.37,"end":13768.37,"text":"金錢那另外一個呢"},{"start":13768.37,"end":13770.37,"text":"Green UAS拿到了以後"},{"start":13770.37,"end":13772.37,"text":"其實就可以直接對接到"},{"start":13772.37,"end":13774.37,"text":"Blue UAS因為兩個"},{"start":13774.37,"end":13776.37,"text":"兩個"},{"start":13776.37,"end":13778.37,"text":"Blue或者是Green UAS都是同一個美國"},{"start":13778.37,"end":13780.37,"text":"的驗證單位所以在美國"},{"start":13780.37,"end":13782.37,"text":"的驗證單位也授權我們公園院有"},{"start":13782.37,"end":13784.37,"text":"這樣的權力能夠協助那當然"},{"start":13784.37,"end":13786.37,"text":"Blue UAS的部分也"},{"start":13786.37,"end":13788.37,"text":"還有其他美國的檢驗單位"},{"start":13788.37,"end":13790.37,"text":"同時的也有其他的"},{"start":13790.37,"end":13792.37,"text":"這個驗證的能量"},{"start":13792.37,"end":13794.37,"text":"我們的金屬中心也會同步"},{"start":13794.37,"end":13796.37,"text":"的再去跟美國的其他"},{"start":13796.37,"end":13798.37,"text":"驗證單位來做合作直接切"},{"start":13798.37,"end":13800.37,"text":"這個Blue UAS的一些相關驗證"},{"start":13800.37,"end":13802.37,"text":"工作我想經濟部"},{"start":13802.37,"end":13804.37,"text":"其實在整個統籌型"},{"start":13804.37,"end":13806.37,"text":"計畫裡面就"},{"start":13806.37,"end":13808.37,"text":"這個非常多的"},{"start":13808.37,"end":13809.37,"text":"面向"},{"start":13809.37,"end":13811.37,"text":"市場面技術面環境"},{"start":13811.37,"end":13813.37,"text":"面跟法規面其實投入了非常多的"},{"start":13813.37,"end":13815.37,"text":"經費那另外"},{"start":13815.37,"end":13817.37,"text":"其他部會因為他們也"},{"start":13817.37,"end":13819.37,"text":"都有各自的依循法令"},{"start":13819.37,"end":13821.37,"text":"在做相關的工作那他們的"},{"start":13821.37,"end":13823.37,"text":"預算也都順便納入了"},{"start":13823.37,"end":13825.37,"text":"我們的統籌型計畫裡面"},{"start":13825.37,"end":13827.37,"text":"所以這個統籌型計畫裡面其實"},{"start":13827.37,"end":13829.37,"text":"不是經濟部專有包含"},{"start":13829.37,"end":13831.37,"text":"交通部包含我們國發會"},{"start":13831.37,"end":13833.37,"text":"還有很多單位包含"},{"start":13833.37,"end":13835.37,"text":"我們的工程會在採購的面向"},{"start":13835.37,"end":13837.37,"text":"也都給我們的協助所以"},{"start":13837.37,"end":13839.37,"text":"這是一個整體的一個方案"},{"start":13839.37,"end":13841.37,"text":"那當然這個整體的方案"},{"start":13841.37,"end":13843.37,"text":"大家提到了不應該只是在部會"},{"start":13843.37,"end":13845.37,"text":"層級應該要到行政院上面"},{"start":13845.37,"end":13847.37,"text":"這邊來去做統籌處理"},{"start":13847.37,"end":13849.37,"text":"確實這個統籌型"},{"start":13849.37,"end":13851.37,"text":"方案目前是由行政"},{"start":13851.37,"end":13853.37,"text":"院正副院長定期"},{"start":13853.37,"end":13855.37,"text":"每季召開專案會議"},{"start":13855.37,"end":13857.37,"text":"來去做管考跟追蹤"},{"start":13857.37,"end":13859.37,"text":"每一季的會議"},{"start":13859.37,"end":13861.37,"text":"裡面都會針對這四大"},{"start":13861.37,"end":13863.37,"text":"面向去做檢討目前"},{"start":13863.37,"end":13865.37,"text":"的最新的進度"},{"start":13865.37,"end":13867.37,"text":"所以在任何不管是業界"},{"start":13867.37,"end":13869.37,"text":"或者是外界有任何的建議"},{"start":13869.37,"end":13871.37,"text":"或者是有困難執行上的困難"},{"start":13871.37,"end":13873.37,"text":"全部都會在那一個行政院"},{"start":13873.37,"end":13875.37,"text":"的專案會議平台裡面去做討論"},{"start":13875.37,"end":13877.37,"text":"那在過去的兩年"},{"start":13877.37,"end":13879.37,"text":"裡面其實也解決了非常"},{"start":13879.37,"end":13881.37,"text":"多的問題那當然就是在"},{"start":13881.37,"end":13883.37,"text":"這樣子的機制下面去做處理"},{"start":13883.37,"end":13885.37,"text":"最後我要跟大家說"},{"start":13885.37,"end":13887.37,"text":"雖然目前沒有專法"},{"start":13887.37,"end":13889.37,"text":"可是經濟部已經在推動"},{"start":13889.37,"end":13891.37,"text":"這些無人機無人載具產業"},{"start":13891.37,"end":13893.37,"text":"的一個發展用現有"},{"start":13893.37,"end":13895.37,"text":"的法規用現有的計劃"},{"start":13895.37,"end":13897.37,"text":"跟預算其實都在推動"},{"start":13897.37,"end":13899.37,"text":"國防部他採購"},{"start":13899.37,"end":13901.37,"text":"無人機有他的國防需求"},{"start":13901.37,"end":13903.37,"text":"產業發展只是他的"},{"start":13903.37,"end":13905.37,"text":"附帶的好處"},{"start":13905.37,"end":13907.37,"text":"而不是他的主要目的"},{"start":13907.37,"end":13909.37,"text":"以上做這樣的說明謝謝"},{"start":13910.89,"end":13912.89,"text":"好謝謝周副署長"},{"start":13912.89,"end":13914.89,"text":"應該是有這個經濟部的"},{"start":13914.89,"end":13916.89,"text":"部門部的高度來做統籌的回應"},{"start":13916.89,"end":13918.89,"text":"我就不再邀請經濟部其他"},{"start":13918.89,"end":13920.89,"text":"所屬相關單位來做回應"},{"start":13920.89,"end":13922.89,"text":"那國防部的部分是不是"},{"start":13922.89,"end":13924.89,"text":"市長要做統籌的回應來請"},{"start":13928.18,"end":13930.18,"text":"有的話就準備"},{"start":13932.22,"end":13934.22,"text":"主席還有我們今天所有的"},{"start":13934.22,"end":13936.22,"text":"各位先進"},{"start":13936.22,"end":13938.22,"text":"還有專家學者"},{"start":13938.41,"end":13940.41,"text":"剛才我們都聚焦在"},{"start":13940.41,"end":13942.41,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":13942.41,"end":13944.41,"text":"這樣子的一個議題裡面"},{"start":13944.94,"end":13946.94,"text":"無人載具它是一個科技的趨勢"},{"start":13948.1,"end":13950.1,"text":"它也是一個戰場的一個走勢"},{"start":13952.08,"end":13956.08,"text":"從現在的這個幾個交戰中的一個國家"},{"start":13956.08,"end":13958.08,"text":"都能夠發現到無人載具"},{"start":13958.08,"end":13960.08,"text":"它發揮了相當大的一個這個戰力"},{"start":13961.98,"end":13963.98,"text":"國防部"},{"start":13963.22,"end":13965.22,"text":"在軍嚴軍"},{"start":13965.22,"end":13967.22,"text":"我們所規劃出來的"},{"start":13966.89,"end":13968.89,"text":"這個特別條例"},{"start":13968.89,"end":13970.89,"text":"都是依據"},{"start":13970.12,"end":13972.12,"text":"最新的敵情"},{"start":13972.12,"end":13974.12,"text":"經過我們"},{"start":13973.1,"end":13975.1,"text":"這個分析跟研究"},{"start":13975.1,"end":13977.1,"text":"所提出來的一個這個需求"},{"start":13978.94,"end":13980.94,"text":"我們必須要去建構"},{"start":13980.83,"end":13982.83,"text":"足以嚇阻"},{"start":13982.59,"end":13984.59,"text":"中國對於我們的這個威脅"},{"start":13986.03,"end":13988.03,"text":"物是抵不來,事無由以待之"},{"start":13988.03,"end":13990.03,"text":"更何況"},{"start":13990.35,"end":13992.35,"text":"中國它現在每天在我們"},{"start":13992.35,"end":13994.35,"text":"台海"},{"start":13993.98,"end":13995.98,"text":"周邊是空虛"},{"start":13995.73,"end":13997.73,"text":"中國對於我們的威脅"},{"start":13999.62,"end":14001.62,"text":"日益嚴峻"},{"start":14002.15,"end":14004.15,"text":"這也就是我們國防部"},{"start":14004.15,"end":14006.15,"text":"為什麼我們非常的"},{"start":14006.8,"end":14008.8,"text":"憂心"},{"start":14008.12,"end":14010.12,"text":"我們認為我們必須要有足夠的嚇阻的能力"},{"start":14011.7,"end":14013.7,"text":"才能夠讓中國"},{"start":14013.7,"end":14015.7,"text":"它要去審慎的去評估"},{"start":14015.8,"end":14017.8,"text":"它去清洗這個戰端"},{"start":14018.04,"end":14020.04,"text":"是不是"},{"start":14019.68,"end":14021.68,"text":"華的來"},{"start":14021.68,"end":14023.68,"text":"它是不是有成功的攻算"},{"start":14023.59,"end":14025.59,"text":"因此我們國防部所提出來的"},{"start":14026.36,"end":14028.36,"text":"絕對都是依據我們防衛作戰目前缺口"},{"start":14030.77,"end":14032.77,"text":"我們律定了憂心順序"},{"start":14032.77,"end":14034.77,"text":"所訂定出來的一個特別條例"},{"start":14034.77,"end":14036.77,"text":"這是第一點回應"},{"start":14036.77,"end":14038.77,"text":"第二點"},{"start":14038.73,"end":14040.73,"text":"之所以編定特別條例"},{"start":14040.73,"end":14042.73,"text":"就是希望能夠有特別的預算"},{"start":14043.79,"end":14045.79,"text":"剛才也有很多的先進"},{"start":14045.79,"end":14047.79,"text":"都有提到"},{"start":14047.17,"end":14049.17,"text":"沒有這個長單"},{"start":14049.65,"end":14051.65,"text":"有穩定的資源的一個需求"},{"start":14052.75,"end":14054.75,"text":"我們國內總共有200多家"},{"start":14055.4,"end":14057.4,"text":"無人機的產業"},{"start":14057.34,"end":14059.34,"text":"多謝"},{"start":14058.49,"end":14060.49,"text":"這個廠商"},{"start":14060.79,"end":14062.79,"text":"當年有穩定的這些資金"},{"start":14064.67,"end":14066.67,"text":"有穩定的國防的需求"},{"start":14067.6,"end":14069.6,"text":"再加上經濟部"},{"start":14069.6,"end":14071.6,"text":"他的一些資源"},{"start":14071.6,"end":14073.6,"text":"我們地方產業"},{"start":14073.6,"end":14075.6,"text":"的這個廠商"},{"start":14075.6,"end":14077.6,"text":"大家共同"},{"start":14076.7,"end":14078.7,"text":"來促成"},{"start":14078.12,"end":14080.12,"text":"我們國內"},{"start":14080.04,"end":14082.04,"text":"有關於無人載具"},{"start":14083.21,"end":14085.21,"text":"他的韌性"},{"start":14085.66,"end":14087.66,"text":"我們是一個海島型的國家"},{"start":14089.31,"end":14091.31,"text":"中共他對於我們"},{"start":14091.31,"end":14093.31,"text":"是不是會遊言轉戰"},{"start":14094.13,"end":14096.13,"text":"這在國防部的立場而言"},{"start":14096.13,"end":14098.13,"text":"是我們急需要納為"},{"start":14098.13,"end":14100.13,"text":"考慮的重要的因素之一"},{"start":14100.7,"end":14102.7,"text":"因此我們如何能夠"},{"start":14102.79,"end":14104.79,"text":"厚植我們國內產業"},{"start":14107.08,"end":14109.08,"text":"如果再提海空封鎖"},{"start":14109.57,"end":14111.57,"text":"我們仍然能夠有足夠的"},{"start":14112.88,"end":14116.88,"text":"這個產業能夠提供我們國防所需要的這些無人載具"},{"start":14116.88,"end":14118.88,"text":"我想這是我們大家必須共同"},{"start":14118.88,"end":14120.88,"text":"要去審慎去思考"},{"start":14120.88,"end":14122.88,"text":"而且這個其實是一個很嚴肅的課題"},{"start":14125.1,"end":14127.1,"text":"因為我們國家的安全"},{"start":14126.94,"end":14128.94,"text":"沒有辦法用長時間"},{"start":14129.76,"end":14132.76,"text":"或者是用沒有敵情的這個狀況之下"},{"start":14132.76,"end":14134.76,"text":"去做一個評估跟考驗"},{"start":14135.85,"end":14137.85,"text":"我們所提出的2100億"},{"start":14138.4,"end":14140.4,"text":"就是專門是為了我們自己國內"},{"start":14141.2,"end":14143.2,"text":"這些產業無人性的產業"},{"start":14143.2,"end":14145.2,"text":"的這些這個"},{"start":14145.5,"end":14147.5,"text":"廠商"},{"start":14146.77,"end":14148.77,"text":"而提出來的"},{"start":14148.39,"end":14150.39,"text":"也就是其實都是要預注在我們國內"},{"start":14150.39,"end":14152.39,"text":"就是讓我們的這個產業鏈"},{"start":14152.39,"end":14154.39,"text":"它能夠"},{"start":14154.85,"end":14156.85,"text":"疊帶"},{"start":14155.83,"end":14157.83,"text":"它能夠快速"},{"start":14157.83,"end":14159.83,"text":"包含軟體的更新"},{"start":14159.83,"end":14161.83,"text":"硬體的更換"},{"start":14160.52,"end":14162.52,"text":"都要能夠在我們自己國家"},{"start":14162.52,"end":14164.52,"text":"我們就有辦法"},{"start":14164.52,"end":14166.52,"text":"可以去做這樣子的一個自主"},{"start":14167.67,"end":14169.67,"text":"所以說如果說是編在年度的預算裡面"},{"start":14169.67,"end":14171.67,"text":"以今年"},{"start":14171.67,"end":14173.67,"text":"115年到目前還沒過"},{"start":14174.9,"end":14176.9,"text":"那如果是用在這個無人機的產業"},{"start":14176.9,"end":14178.9,"text":"那我想我們這些"},{"start":14178.9,"end":14180.9,"text":"這個廠商"},{"start":14180.9,"end":14182.9,"text":"他是不是能夠"},{"start":14182.9,"end":14184.9,"text":"有所期待"},{"start":14183.94,"end":14185.94,"text":"還是他會很謹慎"},{"start":14187.01,"end":14189.01,"text":"他不會去投入他的資金"},{"start":14189.39,"end":14191.39,"text":"去做這樣子的研發跟生產"},{"start":14193.49,"end":14195.49,"text":"第三個"},{"start":14194.69,"end":14196.69,"text":"無人機"},{"start":14196.99,"end":14198.99,"text":"包含空中地面水下"},{"start":14200.43,"end":14202.43,"text":"它所使用的"},{"start":14202.03,"end":14204.03,"text":"包含暫時的消耗的補充"},{"start":14205.02,"end":14207.02,"text":"只有國防部"},{"start":14206.72,"end":14208.72,"text":"我們最需要"},{"start":14208.76,"end":14210.76,"text":"打的需求"},{"start":14210.76,"end":14212.76,"text":"我們的韌性"},{"start":14211.87,"end":14213.87,"text":"只有我們知道"},{"start":14213.52,"end":14215.52,"text":"我們的缺口"},{"start":14215.35,"end":14217.35,"text":"怎麼樣才能夠"},{"start":14217.1,"end":14219.1,"text":"後衛"},{"start":14218.18,"end":14220.18,"text":"我們整體的防衛的這個力量"},{"start":14220.18,"end":14222.18,"text":"因此應該是要由國防部"},{"start":14222.18,"end":14224.18,"text":"來擔任"},{"start":14224.04,"end":14226.04,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":14225.35,"end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們會持續"},{"start":14452.03,"end":14454.03,"text":"對於這個無人載具的一個產業"},{"start":14454.03,"end":14456.03,"text":"我們提供多項的"},{"start":14456.03,"end":14458.03,"text":"租稅優惠一起來"},{"start":14458.62,"end":14460.62,"text":"讓我們的產業不管在"},{"start":14460.62,"end":14462.62,"text":"升級或轉型上面都更大的"},{"start":14462.62,"end":14464.62,"text":"一個空間跟更大的"},{"start":14464.62,"end":14466.62,"text":"一個優惠的一個措施"},{"start":14467.07,"end":14469.07,"text":"大概以上財政部的一個補充"},{"start":14469.07,"end":14471.07,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":14471.04,"end":14473.04,"text":"好謝謝陳次長"},{"start":14473.04,"end":14475.04,"text":"今天列席的行政機關"},{"start":14475.04,"end":14477.04,"text":"不會陳其的統籌回應"},{"start":14477.04,"end":14479.04,"text":"我就讓三位"},{"start":14479.04,"end":14481.04,"text":"代表來做一個統合的"},{"start":14481.04,"end":14483.04,"text":"回應"},{"start":14483.04,"end":14485.04,"text":"那基於今天我們硬要出席的"},{"start":14485.04,"end":14487.04,"text":"推薦的學者專家的名額關係"},{"start":14487.04,"end":14489.04,"text":"那我手上主席這邊"},{"start":14489.04,"end":14491.04,"text":"特別"},{"start":14491.04,"end":14493.04,"text":"因為限於名額不能獲推薦"},{"start":14493.04,"end":14495.04,"text":"來擔任今天發言的學者專家"},{"start":14495.04,"end":14497.04,"text":"但是他的書面意見"},{"start":14497.04,"end":14499.04,"text":"我這邊代為宣讀"},{"start":14498.91,"end":14500.91,"text":"那麼新的"},{"start":14500.91,"end":14502.91,"text":"許興盛董事長"},{"start":14502.91,"end":14504.91,"text":"說本公司一直以來"},{"start":14504.91,"end":14506.91,"text":"做事物流及急難救助"},{"start":14508.09,"end":14510.09,"text":"近日更與日本簽訂"},{"start":14510.09,"end":14512.09,"text":"MOU領域包括民用"},{"start":14512.09,"end":14514.09,"text":"野生動物保護"},{"start":14513.71,"end":14515.71,"text":"積極的跟外國進行國際串聯"},{"start":14515.71,"end":14517.71,"text":"這部分非常"},{"start":14517.71,"end":14519.71,"text":"仰仗政府的公務預算"},{"start":14519.71,"end":14521.71,"text":"支持"},{"start":14521.71,"end":14523.71,"text":"雖然這樣的高速不確定的環境下"},{"start":14523.71,"end":14525.71,"text":"可能導致業者投入的前功盡棄"},{"start":14525.71,"end":14527.71,"text":"行政院442億統籌型計畫"},{"start":14527.71,"end":14529.71,"text":"若遭統三"},{"start":14529.71,"end":14531.71,"text":"不同於之前"},{"start":14531.71,"end":14533.71,"text":"他所拿到的產創"},{"start":14533.71,"end":14535.71,"text":"福祉計畫更可能因此而中斷"},{"start":14535.71,"end":14537.71,"text":"對於廠商的發展"},{"start":14537.71,"end":14539.71,"text":"極度不利"},{"start":14539.71,"end":14541.71,"text":"因此作為供應鏈上下游都非常關注"},{"start":14541.71,"end":14543.71,"text":"市場的變動若是不確定持續下去"},{"start":14543.71,"end":14545.71,"text":"可能造成部分供應商退場"},{"start":14545.71,"end":14547.71,"text":"進一步引發供應鏈"},{"start":14547.71,"end":14549.71,"text":"失序的危機"},{"start":14549.71,"end":14551.71,"text":"因此無論是執政黨或在野黨"},{"start":14551.71,"end":14553.71,"text":"懇請朝野共同拿出討論"},{"start":14553.71,"end":14555.71,"text":"出定案讓業界能夠"},{"start":14555.71,"end":14557.71,"text":"有一個安定發展的環境"},{"start":14557.71,"end":14559.71,"text":"後時整個無人載具的供應鏈"},{"start":14559.71,"end":14561.71,"text":"好以上呢"},{"start":14561.71,"end":14563.71,"text":"是因為受限名額我們無法邀請他"},{"start":14563.71,"end":14565.71,"text":"來擔任今天出席的學者專家的發言內容"},{"start":14565.71,"end":14567.71,"text":"那有本席"},{"start":14567.71,"end":14569.71,"text":"待會宣讀"},{"start":14569.71,"end":14571.71,"text":"就列入我們公報記錄"},{"start":14571.71,"end":14573.71,"text":"好那麼依據立法院職權新司法規定"},{"start":14573.71,"end":14575.71,"text":"委員會應提出公聽會報告"},{"start":14575.71,"end":14577.71,"text":"送交本院全體委員及出席者"},{"start":14577.71,"end":14579.71,"text":"公聽會報告"},{"start":14579.71,"end":14581.71,"text":"作為審查特定議案之參考"},{"start":14583.49,"end":14585.49,"text":"感謝各位專家學者提供寶貴的意見"},{"start":14585.49,"end":14587.49,"text":"所有初練習人員的發言及提供的說明資料"},{"start":14587.49,"end":14589.49,"text":"除刊登公報之外"},{"start":14589.49,"end":14591.49,"text":"我們會另外製作公聽會報告"},{"start":14591.49,"end":14593.49,"text":"送交本院全體委員及所有初練習人員參考"},{"start":14593.49,"end":14595.49,"text":"再次感謝各位的參與"},{"start":14595.49,"end":14597.49,"text":"本次公聽會到此結束"},{"start":14597.49,"end":14599.49,"text":"散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}