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謝謝"},{"start":1879.52,"end":1883.52,"text":"彭博安秘書長陪同被提名監察委員來到本院拜會"},{"start":1883.52,"end":1887.52,"text":"他們希望針對監察委員同意全案的審查時程"},{"start":1888.38,"end":1891.38,"text":"那彭秘書長以及被提名希望能夠"},{"start":1891.38,"end":1894.38,"text":"能夠盡速安排後續的議程"},{"start":1895.06,"end":1897.06,"text":"所以對於同意全案的時程"},{"start":1897.06,"end":1899.06,"text":"這一點要我們受人之託"},{"start":1899.06,"end":1901.06,"text":"忠人之事"},{"start":1901.06,"end":1903.06,"text":"我們請各黨團幹部來表達一下"},{"start":1903.06,"end":1905.06,"text":"那監察委員"},{"start":1905.06,"end":1907.06,"text":"所有後續審查的議程"},{"start":1907.06,"end":1909.06,"text":"請問各位"},{"start":1909.06,"end":1911.06,"text":"黨團幹部有沒有寶貴的意見"},{"start":1911.06,"end":1913.06,"text":"請表達"},{"start":1918.65,"end":1920.65,"text":"我們討論監察委員"},{"start":1920.2,"end":1922.2,"text":"那個"},{"start":1923.81,"end":1925.81,"text":"監察委員"},{"start":1926.04,"end":1930.04,"text":"監察委員跟院長還有各位"},{"start":1930.04,"end":1932.04,"text":"黨團協商代表來做一個說明"},{"start":1932.04,"end":1934.04,"text":"昨天"},{"start":1934.04,"end":1936.04,"text":"這個總統府"},{"start":1936.04,"end":1938.04,"text":"派秘書長也帶領了"},{"start":1938.04,"end":1940.04,"text":"監察院長"},{"start":1940.04,"end":1942.04,"text":"副院長還有所有的"},{"start":1942.04,"end":1944.04,"text":"監察委員被提名的來拜會"},{"start":1944.04,"end":1946.04,"text":"那攸關到"},{"start":1946.04,"end":1948.04,"text":"說我們整個監察"},{"start":1948.04,"end":1950.04,"text":"院監察委員都要卸任"},{"start":1950.04,"end":1952.04,"text":"那確實一個憲政機關"},{"start":1952.04,"end":1954.04,"text":"總統也依法來做一個提名"},{"start":1954.04,"end":1956.04,"text":"那我們是不是"},{"start":1956.04,"end":1958.04,"text":"在整個審查的"},{"start":1958.04,"end":1960.04,"text":"一個程序裡面"},{"start":1960.04,"end":1962.04,"text":"及早我們來做一個"},{"start":1962.04,"end":1964.04,"text":"訂定"},{"start":1964.04,"end":1966.04,"text":"院長這個地方可能考量到"},{"start":1966.04,"end":1968.04,"text":"很多被提名的人"},{"start":1968.04,"end":1970.04,"text":"或者說我們本院有一些相關的"},{"start":1970.04,"end":1972.04,"text":"議事程序要去做一個進行"},{"start":1972.04,"end":1974.04,"text":"是不是我們也先把它做一個"},{"start":1974.04,"end":1976.04,"text":"確認下來"},{"start":1976.26,"end":1978.26,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1983.42,"end":1985.42,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":1985.42,"end":1987.42,"text":"那有關"},{"start":1987.42,"end":1989.42,"text":"我們監察委員"},{"start":1989.42,"end":1991.42,"text":"被提名的人昨天"},{"start":1991.42,"end":1993.42,"text":"也拜會了我們韓院長"},{"start":1993.42,"end":1995.42,"text":"那監察委員的"},{"start":1995.42,"end":1997.42,"text":"一個被提名"},{"start":1997.42,"end":1999.42,"text":"我們的一個審查"},{"start":1999.42,"end":2001.42,"text":"這個當然是非常重要"},{"start":2001.42,"end":2003.42,"text":"在目前來講"},{"start":2003.42,"end":2005.42,"text":"那我的建議是"},{"start":2005.42,"end":2007.42,"text":"今天最主要還是"},{"start":2007.42,"end":2009.42,"text":"我們"},{"start":2009.42,"end":2011.42,"text":"在上禮拜五"},{"start":2011.42,"end":2013.42,"text":"我們有長團協商"},{"start":2013.42,"end":2015.42,"text":"我們有兩個案子"},{"start":2015.42,"end":2017.42,"text":"在今天要請院長"},{"start":2017.42,"end":2019.42,"text":"來做協商"},{"start":2019.42,"end":2021.42,"text":"那有關監察委員"},{"start":2021.42,"end":2023.42,"text":"或是我們的這些相關的議程"},{"start":2023.42,"end":2025.42,"text":"我建議我們在"},{"start":2025.42,"end":2027.42,"text":"下個禮拜"},{"start":2027.42,"end":2029.42,"text":"那請韓院長"},{"start":2029.42,"end":2031.42,"text":"特別來召開"},{"start":2031.42,"end":2033.42,"text":"我們的協商就有關的"},{"start":2033.42,"end":2035.42,"text":"一個審查時程"},{"start":2035.42,"end":2037.42,"text":"我們請韓院長"},{"start":2037.42,"end":2039.42,"text":"當然要盡速我也同意"},{"start":2039.42,"end":2041.42,"text":"盡速喔"},{"start":2041.42,"end":2043.42,"text":"那真的還安排到下個禮拜吧"},{"start":2043.42,"end":2045.42,"text":"好這是我的建議"},{"start":2045.42,"end":2047.42,"text":"今天的議程就在這"},{"start":2047.42,"end":2049.42,"text":"專門針對監察委員的議程"},{"start":2049.42,"end":2051.42,"text":"那請國民黨團隊請表達意見"},{"start":2051.24,"end":2053.24,"text":"我們黨團尊重"},{"start":2053.24,"end":2055.24,"text":"尊重院長尊重"},{"start":2055.24,"end":2057.24,"text":"民眾黨團的意見下禮拜協商OK"},{"start":2057.24,"end":2059.24,"text":"好那各位黨團幹部我們就下個禮拜"},{"start":2059.24,"end":2061.24,"text":"我們針對監察委員同意權的行使"},{"start":2061.24,"end":2063.24,"text":"我們再繼續溝通"},{"start":2063.24,"end":2065.24,"text":"我們來這個發出"},{"start":2065.24,"end":2067.24,"text":"朝野黨團協商的通知好嗎"},{"start":2067.24,"end":2069.24,"text":"如果確定這樣我們就下禮拜"},{"start":2069.24,"end":2071.24,"text":"來專門討論監察委員同意權的時間"},{"start":2071.24,"end":2073.24,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":2073.43,"end":2075.43,"text":"我們現在要進行法案的協商"},{"start":2075.43,"end":2077.43,"text":"共有兩題"},{"start":2077.43,"end":2079.43,"text":"第一題是未來帳戶條例的制定案"},{"start":2079.43,"end":2081.43,"text":"第二題是公路法的修正案"},{"start":2081.43,"end":2083.43,"text":"我們要開始依序進行協商"},{"start":2084.5,"end":2086.5,"text":"第一題我們要未來帳戶條例制定案"},{"start":2086.5,"end":2088.5,"text":"我們先介紹列席的官員"},{"start":2088.5,"end":2090.5,"text":"首先歡迎我們衛福部的時部長"},{"start":2090.5,"end":2092.5,"text":"好歡迎"},{"start":2093.97,"end":2095.97,"text":"國家發展委員會的"},{"start":2095.97,"end":2097.97,"text":"主計總處的"},{"start":2097.97,"end":2099.97,"text":"專門委員陳專門委員"},{"start":2099.97,"end":2101.97,"text":"好歡迎你"},{"start":2101.97,"end":2103.97,"text":"財政部的政務次長陳政務次長"},{"start":2103.97,"end":2105.97,"text":"歡迎"},{"start":2105.12,"end":2107.12,"text":"勞動部勞工保險局的白局長"},{"start":2108.16,"end":2110.16,"text":"好歡迎"},{"start":2109.56,"end":2111.56,"text":"就一步"},{"start":2111.09,"end":2113.09,"text":"我們張都學"},{"start":2113.09,"end":2115.09,"text":"教育部也列席了"},{"start":2115.09,"end":2117.09,"text":"法務部的汪參事"},{"start":2117.09,"end":2119.09,"text":"歡迎你"},{"start":2118.33,"end":2120.33,"text":"那其他還有相關列席的官員"},{"start":2120.33,"end":2122.33,"text":"非常歡迎大家"},{"start":2122.33,"end":2124.33,"text":"參加我們今天朝野協商"},{"start":2124.42,"end":2126.42,"text":"我們本案共有30多個條文"},{"start":2126.42,"end":2128.42,"text":"審查彙除第一章的章名"},{"start":2128.88,"end":2130.88,"text":"之外其餘均保留"},{"start":2130.88,"end":2132.88,"text":"我們現在開始進行協商"},{"start":2132.88,"end":2134.88,"text":"我們先從名稱開始"},{"start":2134.88,"end":2136.88,"text":"現在請各黨團來表達意見"},{"start":2137.98,"end":2139.98,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2138.99,"end":2140.99,"text":"來 放進去"},{"start":2140.64,"end":2142.64,"text":"好我想我們在"},{"start":2142.64,"end":2144.64,"text":"我是立委范雲"},{"start":2144.64,"end":2146.64,"text":"我們代表民進黨團要跟大家表達"},{"start":2146.64,"end":2148.64,"text":"四點意見"},{"start":2148.64,"end":2150.64,"text":"第一點其實就如同我們在"},{"start":2150.64,"end":2152.64,"text":"委員會的時候有討論過"},{"start":2152.64,"end":2154.64,"text":"這整個民眾黨團"},{"start":2154.64,"end":2156.64,"text":"所提的這個就是"},{"start":2156.64,"end":2158.64,"text":"不管是修正動議"},{"start":2158.64,"end":2160.64,"text":"或者是原來的大家的版本"},{"start":2160.64,"end":2162.64,"text":"那其實有一個最重要的問題"},{"start":2162.64,"end":2164.64,"text":"就是我們長期在講的"},{"start":2164.64,"end":2166.64,"text":"根據預算法第91條"},{"start":2166.64,"end":2168.64,"text":"規定立法委員所提的"},{"start":2168.64,"end":2170.64,"text":"法律案大幅增加稅出"},{"start":2170.64,"end":2172.64,"text":"或減少稅入者"},{"start":2172.64,"end":2174.64,"text":"應先徵詢行政院意見"},{"start":2174.64,"end":2176.64,"text":"並指明裁員"},{"start":2176.64,"end":2178.64,"text":"所以第一點就有這個不符合"},{"start":2178.64,"end":2180.64,"text":"財政紀律的問題"},{"start":2180.64,"end":2182.64,"text":"這部分我們就並不支持"},{"start":2182.64,"end":2184.64,"text":"第二點就是也很重要的"},{"start":2184.64,"end":2186.64,"text":"也是我們在委員會中"},{"start":2186.64,"end":2188.64,"text":"就有討論過的"},{"start":2188.64,"end":2190.64,"text":"我們看到就是"},{"start":2190.64,"end":2192.64,"text":"這幾案就是"},{"start":2192.64,"end":2194.64,"text":"關於就是內容的問題"},{"start":2194.64,"end":2196.64,"text":"所謂的這個兒少成長"},{"start":2196.64,"end":2198.64,"text":"未來的帳戶"},{"start":2198.64,"end":2200.64,"text":"他在設計上會違反租稅的公平"},{"start":2200.64,"end":2202.64,"text":"因為他對於不需要繳稅"},{"start":2202.64,"end":2204.64,"text":"或是相對經濟弱勢"},{"start":2204.64,"end":2206.64,"text":"而且沒有能力自存款的家庭"},{"start":2206.64,"end":2208.64,"text":"並沒有減稅的實益"},{"start":2208.64,"end":2210.64,"text":"而且呢"},{"start":2210.64,"end":2212.64,"text":"他讓高所得者享有"},{"start":2212.64,"end":2214.64,"text":"較大幅度的減稅利益"},{"start":2214.64,"end":2216.64,"text":"就是大家這個提案"},{"start":2216.64,"end":2218.64,"text":"其實用意是好的"},{"start":2218.64,"end":2220.64,"text":"可是造成一個"},{"start":2220.64,"end":2222.64,"text":"租稅不公平的結果"},{"start":2222.64,"end":2224.64,"text":"那第三個我們不支持的"},{"start":2224.64,"end":2226.64,"text":"原因是這個效果"},{"start":2226.64,"end":2228.64,"text":"本來大家是要解決"},{"start":2228.64,"end":2230.64,"text":"跨世代貧富差距"},{"start":2230.64,"end":2232.64,"text":"這個立法目的也講得很好"},{"start":2232.64,"end":2234.64,"text":"可是呢"},{"start":2234.64,"end":2236.64,"text":"學者就已經在"},{"start":2236.64,"end":2238.64,"text":"就是公開的發言指出"},{"start":2238.64,"end":2240.64,"text":"依照他們的推估"},{"start":2240.64,"end":2242.64,"text":"12年之後這個貧富差距"},{"start":2242.64,"end":2244.64,"text":"可能會相差到200萬"},{"start":2244.64,"end":2246.64,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":2246.64,"end":2248.64,"text":"最窮的五分之一家庭"},{"start":2248.64,"end":2250.64,"text":"跟最富有的五分之一家庭"},{"start":2250.64,"end":2252.64,"text":"的累計"},{"start":2252.64,"end":2254.64,"text":"家長的自存款不同"},{"start":2254.64,"end":2256.64,"text":"他本來能夠拿出來的"},{"start":2256.64,"end":2258.64,"text":"就是累積的這個"},{"start":2258.64,"end":2260.64,"text":"去銀行得到利息的存款"},{"start":2260.64,"end":2262.64,"text":"又不同那最後呢"},{"start":2262.64,"end":2264.64,"text":"會達到就是"},{"start":2264.64,"end":2266.64,"text":"富者越富本來就比較有錢的"},{"start":2266.64,"end":2268.64,"text":"他又自存款更多"},{"start":2268.64,"end":2270.64,"text":"得到更多的利息"},{"start":2270.64,"end":2272.64,"text":"然後跟抵稅的優惠"},{"start":2272.64,"end":2274.64,"text":"結果更窮的"},{"start":2274.64,"end":2276.64,"text":"反而就沒有自存款"},{"start":2276.64,"end":2278.64,"text":"所以貧富差距是擴大的"},{"start":2278.64,"end":2280.64,"text":"所以他造成了一個"},{"start":2280.64,"end":2282.64,"text":"貧富差距的效果"},{"start":2282.64,"end":2284.64,"text":"也跟這個立法目的是不同的"},{"start":2284.64,"end":2286.64,"text":"那最後我們要比較"},{"start":2286.64,"end":2288.64,"text":"就是行政院"},{"start":2288.72,"end":2290.72,"text":"本來就有就是非常"},{"start":2290.72,"end":2292.72,"text":"相近的設計"},{"start":2292.72,"end":2294.72,"text":"預算在各方面都是好的"},{"start":2294.72,"end":2296.72,"text":"而且不會造成"},{"start":2296.72,"end":2298.72,"text":"加大貧富差距的這個結果"},{"start":2298.72,"end":2300.72,"text":"那最後呢就是我們看到的"},{"start":2300.72,"end":2302.72,"text":"在野黨的這個版本"},{"start":2302.72,"end":2304.72,"text":"還會衍生一個"},{"start":2304.72,"end":2306.72,"text":"龐大的行政成本"},{"start":2306.72,"end":2308.72,"text":"實際上可行度低"},{"start":2308.72,"end":2310.72,"text":"不管就是說必須要以"},{"start":2310.72,"end":2312.72,"text":"兒童或少年的名義"},{"start":2312.72,"end":2314.72,"text":"開立台灣未來帳戶"},{"start":2314.72,"end":2316.72,"text":"那最後呢還有一個很複雜的"},{"start":2316.72,"end":2318.72,"text":"行政程序不管是21條規定的"},{"start":2318.72,"end":2320.72,"text":"需要依照民法"},{"start":2320.72,"end":2322.72,"text":"宣告停止侵權追回全數款項等"},{"start":2322.72,"end":2324.72,"text":"那事實上"},{"start":2324.72,"end":2326.72,"text":"就是要追回款項的話"},{"start":2326.72,"end":2328.72,"text":"還有漫長的司法程序"},{"start":2328.72,"end":2330.72,"text":"等等他在行政上"},{"start":2330.72,"end":2332.72,"text":"不管是對我們的民眾"},{"start":2332.72,"end":2334.72,"text":"或者是對相關的"},{"start":2334.72,"end":2336.72,"text":"這個單位來講的話"},{"start":2336.72,"end":2338.72,"text":"就是行政成本都很高"},{"start":2338.72,"end":2340.72,"text":"可行性也低"},{"start":2340.72,"end":2342.72,"text":"那基於以上這幾個理由"},{"start":2342.72,"end":2344.72,"text":"那我們黨團並不支持"},{"start":2344.72,"end":2346.72,"text":"就是這樣的版本"},{"start":2346.72,"end":2348.72,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":2348.72,"end":2350.72,"text":"好謝謝民進黨團的范允書議長"},{"start":2350.72,"end":2352.72,"text":"接下來台灣民眾黨團的"},{"start":2352.72,"end":2354.72,"text":"邱委員請發言"},{"start":2354.72,"end":2356.72,"text":"林佩祥文請準備"},{"start":2356.72,"end":2358.72,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":2358.72,"end":2360.72,"text":"我們台灣未來帳戶"},{"start":2360.72,"end":2362.72,"text":"原本名稱是叫做台灣未來帳戶"},{"start":2362.72,"end":2364.72,"text":"但是因為"},{"start":2364.72,"end":2366.72,"text":"現在少子化非常的嚴重"},{"start":2366.72,"end":2368.72,"text":"我們覺得應該再給父母更多"},{"start":2368.72,"end":2370.72,"text":"育兒上更大的經濟誘因"},{"start":2370.72,"end":2372.72,"text":"所以我們由原本台灣未來帳戶"},{"start":2372.72,"end":2374.72,"text":"的概念"},{"start":2374.72,"end":2376.72,"text":"又再多增加了一個叫做成長金貼"},{"start":2376.72,"end":2378.72,"text":"的概念進去"},{"start":2378.72,"end":2380.72,"text":"因此我們就證明成"},{"start":2380.72,"end":2382.72,"text":"台灣兒少成長及未來帳戶條例"},{"start":2382.72,"end":2384.72,"text":"這是第一點跟大家說明的"},{"start":2384.72,"end":2386.72,"text":"那我們這個"},{"start":2386.72,"end":2388.72,"text":"新的制度"},{"start":2388.72,"end":2390.72,"text":"其實是雙軌進行"},{"start":2390.72,"end":2392.72,"text":"那雙軌進行第一軌"},{"start":2392.72,"end":2394.72,"text":"就有原始TFA的概念"},{"start":2394.72,"end":2396.72,"text":"在裡面"},{"start":2396.72,"end":2398.72,"text":"也就是嬰兒出生之後"},{"start":2398.72,"end":2400.72,"text":"會先給他第一桶金"},{"start":2400.72,"end":2402.72,"text":"然後他出生的時候會給啟動金六萬"},{"start":2402.72,"end":2404.72,"text":"然後等到他"},{"start":2404.72,"end":2406.72,"text":"七歲到未滿十八歲"},{"start":2406.72,"end":2408.72,"text":"這段期間會給他"},{"start":2408.72,"end":2410.72,"text":"每個月兩千五的"},{"start":2410.72,"end":2412.72,"text":"撥補款"},{"start":2412.72,"end":2414.72,"text":"在第二軌也就是成長金貼"},{"start":2414.72,"end":2416.72,"text":"的部分"},{"start":2416.72,"end":2418.72,"text":"就是從出生到未滿七歲"},{"start":2418.72,"end":2420.72,"text":"這段期間每年會給"},{"start":2420.72,"end":2422.72,"text":"六萬的成長金貼"},{"start":2422.72,"end":2424.72,"text":"那過了"},{"start":2424.72,"end":2426.72,"text":"這個階段之後來到七歲"},{"start":2426.72,"end":2428.72,"text":"未滿十八歲這個階段"},{"start":2428.72,"end":2430.72,"text":"會每個月給兩千五的"},{"start":2430.72,"end":2432.72,"text":"成長金貼"},{"start":2432.72,"end":2434.72,"text":"所以我們的金額"},{"start":2434.72,"end":2436.72,"text":"有一個特色叫做"},{"start":2436.72,"end":2438.72,"text":"666就是啟動金六萬"},{"start":2438.72,"end":2440.72,"text":"成長金貼每年六萬"},{"start":2440.72,"end":2442.72,"text":"然後到了七歲之後"},{"start":2442.72,"end":2444.72,"text":"十八歲以前這一段期間"},{"start":2444.72,"end":2446.72,"text":"成長金貼加TFA"},{"start":2446.72,"end":2448.72,"text":"的原始概念撥補款"},{"start":2448.72,"end":2450.72,"text":"兩個加起來也是六萬"},{"start":2450.72,"end":2452.72,"text":"所以我們推出來的就是一個"},{"start":2452.72,"end":2454.72,"text":"666的方案"},{"start":2454.72,"end":2456.72,"text":"那也希望父母"},{"start":2456.72,"end":2458.72,"text":"在生的育女的道路之上"},{"start":2458.72,"end":2460.72,"text":"有666大順的感覺"},{"start":2460.72,"end":2462.72,"text":"而不是面臨這個經濟的困頓"},{"start":2462.72,"end":2464.72,"text":"政府的"},{"start":2464.72,"end":2466.72,"text":"資源相對的沒有"},{"start":2466.72,"end":2468.72,"text":"益處"},{"start":2468.72,"end":2470.72,"text":"除此之外當然我們為了讓"},{"start":2470.72,"end":2472.72,"text":"兒少他在十八歲的時候"},{"start":2472.72,"end":2474.72,"text":"有豐滿的第一桶金"},{"start":2474.72,"end":2476.72,"text":"因為這個第一桶金不是亂用"},{"start":2476.72,"end":2478.72,"text":"用在五個非常具有意義"},{"start":2478.72,"end":2480.72,"text":"而且可能是翻轉人生的一個用途"},{"start":2480.72,"end":2482.72,"text":"第一個就是就業就學"},{"start":2482.72,"end":2484.72,"text":"創業然後接著就是"},{"start":2484.72,"end":2486.72,"text":"房貸手期款還有租屋費用"},{"start":2486.72,"end":2488.72,"text":"我想這些都是用在刀口上"},{"start":2488.72,"end":2490.72,"text":"都是非常關鍵的一個使用的目的"},{"start":2490.72,"end":2492.72,"text":"那當然我們希望"},{"start":2492.72,"end":2494.72,"text":"十八歲這一桶金能夠又大又滿"},{"start":2494.72,"end":2496.72,"text":"所以當然我們設計了"},{"start":2496.72,"end":2498.72,"text":"讓這個父母"},{"start":2498.72,"end":2500.72,"text":"能夠來投入"},{"start":2500.72,"end":2502.72,"text":"自存款自存款"},{"start":2502.72,"end":2504.72,"text":"那每年是二十萬那當然我們"},{"start":2504.72,"end":2506.72,"text":"也響應企業"},{"start":2506.72,"end":2508.72,"text":"來豐滿兒童"},{"start":2508.72,"end":2510.72,"text":"十八歲的第一桶金所以"},{"start":2510.72,"end":2512.72,"text":"企業如果願意協助的話"},{"start":2512.72,"end":2514.72,"text":"每年是五萬這樣"},{"start":2514.72,"end":2516.72,"text":"那我想這些的目的都是為了讓兒童"},{"start":2516.72,"end":2518.72,"text":"在十八歲的時候"},{"start":2518.72,"end":2520.72,"text":"有一個披荊斬棘的一個動力"},{"start":2520.72,"end":2522.72,"text":"跟支援還有後盾"},{"start":2522.72,"end":2524.72,"text":"那剛我們民進黨"},{"start":2524.72,"end":2526.72,"text":"這邊有提到說"},{"start":2527.72,"end":2529.72,"text":"違反財政紀律其實事實上"},{"start":2529.72,"end":2531.72,"text":"我們知道賴清德總統"},{"start":2531.72,"end":2533.72,"text":"的大禮包我們一路關切到"},{"start":2533.72,"end":2535.72,"text":"這裡其實我們的制度"},{"start":2535.72,"end":2537.72,"text":"跟賴清德的制度"},{"start":2537.72,"end":2539.72,"text":"幾乎是一模一樣是差在"},{"start":2539.72,"end":2541.72,"text":"賴清德總統"},{"start":2541.72,"end":2543.72,"text":"所這個政府所推動"},{"start":2543.72,"end":2545.72,"text":"出來的並沒有出生之後"},{"start":2545.72,"end":2547.72,"text":"給六萬的啟動金否則"},{"start":2547.72,"end":2549.72,"text":"其他的制度其實是一樣的"},{"start":2549.72,"end":2551.72,"text":"那如果賴清德總統在推動"},{"start":2551.72,"end":2553.72,"text":"所謂的大禮包"},{"start":2553.72,"end":2555.72,"text":"沒有所謂財政紀律的問題"},{"start":2555.72,"end":2557.72,"text":"那為什麼台灣民眾黨跟國民黨"},{"start":2557.72,"end":2559.72,"text":"所共提的這個TFAA的"},{"start":2559.72,"end":2561.72,"text":"一個帳戶跟概念"},{"start":2561.72,"end":2563.72,"text":"會有財政紀律的問題"},{"start":2563.72,"end":2565.72,"text":"這是我第一個想問的問題"},{"start":2565.72,"end":2567.72,"text":"那至於剛民進黨"},{"start":2567.72,"end":2569.72,"text":"也有提到什麼租稅啦"},{"start":2569.72,"end":2571.72,"text":"什麼什麼影響什麼"},{"start":2571.72,"end":2573.72,"text":"貧富差距"},{"start":2573.72,"end":2575.72,"text":"事實上這等一下可以請衛福部部長"},{"start":2575.72,"end":2577.72,"text":"回應 衛福部部長其實現行"},{"start":2577.72,"end":2579.72,"text":"有一個類似的概念只是對於"},{"start":2579.72,"end":2581.72,"text":"一些弱勢的家庭其中"},{"start":2581.72,"end":2583.72,"text":"如果我沒記錯應該有對準的概念"},{"start":2583.72,"end":2585.72,"text":"那為什麼對準的概念在"},{"start":2585.72,"end":2587.72,"text":"民進黨政府所推動的制度裡頭"},{"start":2587.72,"end":2589.72,"text":"沒有貧富差距的問題"},{"start":2589.72,"end":2591.72,"text":"然後在我們共提的版本裡頭"},{"start":2591.72,"end":2593.72,"text":"就有貧富差距的問題"},{"start":2593.72,"end":2595.72,"text":"這是我們想要反問的"},{"start":2595.72,"end":2597.72,"text":"那這個"},{"start":2597.72,"end":2599.72,"text":"民進黨這邊也提到行政成本"},{"start":2599.72,"end":2601.72,"text":"政府我們要政府"},{"start":2601.72,"end":2603.72,"text":"幹嘛就是幫我們推扶國立民"},{"start":2603.72,"end":2605.72,"text":"的政策 那扶國立民的政策"},{"start":2605.72,"end":2607.72,"text":"當然就是要有一些行政成本"},{"start":2607.72,"end":2609.72,"text":"那難道民進黨政府"},{"start":2609.72,"end":2611.72,"text":"把行政成本看得比"},{"start":2611.72,"end":2613.72,"text":"兒少的第一桶金還重要嗎"},{"start":2613.72,"end":2617.72,"text":"看得比這個在生養子女的家庭"},{"start":2617.72,"end":2619.72,"text":"有經濟困頓"},{"start":2619.72,"end":2621.72,"text":"而我們進一步要給予經濟誘因"},{"start":2621.72,"end":2623.72,"text":"這件事看得還重要嗎"},{"start":2623.72,"end":2625.72,"text":"我真的很想問"},{"start":2625.72,"end":2627.72,"text":"就是說到底20%"},{"start":2627.72,"end":2629.72,"text":"上架跟下架"},{"start":2629.72,"end":2631.72,"text":"以20%為標準"},{"start":2631.72,"end":2633.72,"text":"停留在架上跟下架"},{"start":2633.72,"end":2635.72,"text":"這個標準到底是為"},{"start":2635.72,"end":2637.72,"text":"維護廠商的利益還是為了"},{"start":2637.72,"end":2639.72,"text":"維護消費者的利益"},{"start":2639.72,"end":2641.72,"text":"這樣的一個邏輯我在這邊問"},{"start":2641.72,"end":2643.72,"text":"行政成本本來就是固定要支出的"},{"start":2643.72,"end":2645.72,"text":"你不能夠說因為行政成本"},{"start":2645.72,"end":2647.72,"text":"要支出"},{"start":2647.72,"end":2649.72,"text":"就來去打擊兒少"},{"start":2649.72,"end":2653.72,"text":"還有及其父母在整個育兒過程當中"},{"start":2653.72,"end":2655.72,"text":"所應該享有的福利跟權利"},{"start":2655.72,"end":2657.72,"text":"以上說明謝謝"},{"start":2657.72,"end":2659.72,"text":"謝謝邱會主委員的說明 國民黨團陳金威"},{"start":2659.72,"end":2661.72,"text":"徐政委員還陳金威委員"},{"start":2661.72,"end":2663.72,"text":"要發言"},{"start":2663.99,"end":2665.99,"text":"郭國務委員請準備"},{"start":2665.99,"end":2667.99,"text":"因為是提案委員好嗎 好"},{"start":2667.99,"end":2669.99,"text":"徐議政委員請發言"},{"start":2669.99,"end":2671.99,"text":"謝謝院長 我想今天我們在協商這個"},{"start":2671.99,"end":2673.99,"text":"台灣未來帳戶特別條例的草案"},{"start":2673.99,"end":2675.99,"text":"其實國民黨團跟"},{"start":2675.99,"end":2677.99,"text":"台灣民眾黨團早就提出了"},{"start":2677.99,"end":2679.99,"text":"這個條例的版本"},{"start":2679.99,"end":2681.99,"text":"早在賴清德總統宣布"},{"start":2681.99,"end":2683.99,"text":"這個對這個家庭支持"},{"start":2683.99,"end":2685.99,"text":"編的18項措施之前"},{"start":2685.99,"end":2687.99,"text":"我們就已經進入立法院的審查"},{"start":2687.99,"end":2689.99,"text":"的程序 也代表說國民黨"},{"start":2689.99,"end":2691.99,"text":"早就看到少者化不能只靠"},{"start":2691.99,"end":2693.99,"text":"短期的補助 必須建立一套陪"},{"start":2693.99,"end":2695.99,"text":"孩子累積到18歲的長期"},{"start":2695.99,"end":2697.99,"text":"資產的一個制度"},{"start":2697.99,"end":2699.99,"text":"那針對這個部分"},{"start":2699.99,"end":2701.99,"text":"賴總統雖然提出了"},{"start":2701.99,"end":2703.99,"text":"這樣子的一個概念之後"},{"start":2703.99,"end":2705.99,"text":"但一直沒有 行政院"},{"start":2705.99,"end":2707.99,"text":"到現在都還沒有一套這個"},{"start":2707.99,"end":2709.99,"text":"院版的法律條文送到立法院"},{"start":2709.99,"end":2711.99,"text":"那我們現在看到還是政策說明"},{"start":2711.99,"end":2713.99,"text":"行政規劃跟政治指示"},{"start":2713.99,"end":2715.99,"text":"因此我們覺得孩子"},{"start":2715.99,"end":2717.99,"text":"的人生的起步"},{"start":2717.99,"end":2719.99,"text":"不能只靠行政機關"},{"start":2719.99,"end":2721.99,"text":"未來願不願意編列預算"},{"start":2721.99,"end":2723.99,"text":"願不願意繼續推"},{"start":2723.99,"end":2725.99,"text":"所以這麼重要的制度一定要有"},{"start":2725.99,"end":2727.99,"text":"明確的法律條文 必須要"},{"start":2727.99,"end":2729.99,"text":"採原設計 必須要"},{"start":2729.99,"end":2731.99,"text":"有基金的監理 必須要有資訊"},{"start":2731.99,"end":2733.99,"text":"的公開 也必須要接受"},{"start":2733.99,"end":2735.99,"text":"立法院的審議跟監督"},{"start":2735.99,"end":2737.99,"text":"那當然這也是國民黨版"},{"start":2737.99,"end":2739.99,"text":"最重要的地方就是說"},{"start":2739.99,"end":2741.99,"text":"國民黨版不是只有給孩子一個專戶"},{"start":2741.99,"end":2743.99,"text":"而是我們必須要明定"},{"start":2743.99,"end":2745.99,"text":"啟動金 撥補款 自存款"},{"start":2745.99,"end":2747.99,"text":"企業贊助款跟基金投資"},{"start":2747.99,"end":2749.99,"text":"的收益 而不是說"},{"start":2749.99,"end":2751.99,"text":"政府只會照顧孩子"},{"start":2751.99,"end":2753.99,"text":"而是要把中央與地方"},{"start":2753.99,"end":2755.99,"text":"的主管機關開戶的程序"},{"start":2755.99,"end":2757.99,"text":"收益的保障"},{"start":2757.99,"end":2759.99,"text":"這個提領的用途 財務的"},{"start":2759.99,"end":2761.99,"text":"透明跟資金的監理"},{"start":2761.99,"end":2763.99,"text":"還有特別預算的送審"},{"start":2763.99,"end":2765.99,"text":"都寫入到法律當中"},{"start":2765.99,"end":2767.99,"text":"那換句話說"},{"start":2767.99,"end":2769.99,"text":"賴總統的十八項提出的方向"},{"start":2769.99,"end":2771.99,"text":"但是因為國民黨團跟民主黨團"},{"start":2771.99,"end":2773.99,"text":"早就已經提出這樣的一個"},{"start":2773.99,"end":2775.99,"text":"法律條文 所以我們"},{"start":2775.99,"end":2777.99,"text":"希望今天針對這個"},{"start":2777.99,"end":2779.99,"text":"國民黨版的這個跟民眾黨版的"},{"start":2779.99,"end":2781.99,"text":"這個台灣未來帳戶可以"},{"start":2781.99,"end":2783.99,"text":"實質的審查 讓我們這個是把"},{"start":2783.99,"end":2785.99,"text":"這個台灣未來帳戶能夠"},{"start":2785.99,"end":2787.99,"text":"盡快的暫度通過"},{"start":2787.99,"end":2789.99,"text":"謝謝 郭國文發言之後 麻煩請衛福部"},{"start":2789.99,"end":2791.99,"text":"市務部長準備發言好嗎 好"},{"start":2791.99,"end":2793.99,"text":"國文請 謝謝韓院長"},{"start":2793.99,"end":2795.99,"text":"那剛剛我聆聽了"},{"start":2795.99,"end":2797.99,"text":"這個三個黨團的這個"},{"start":2797.99,"end":2799.99,"text":"版本的內容 還有就我所理解的"},{"start":2799.99,"end":2801.99,"text":"行政院版本的內容當中"},{"start":2801.99,"end":2803.99,"text":"我想說 就制度面來說"},{"start":2803.99,"end":2805.99,"text":"就要跟大家進行對話"},{"start":2805.99,"end":2807.99,"text":"那基本上呢 國民黨團"},{"start":2807.99,"end":2809.99,"text":"跟民眾黨團是有提出法案"},{"start":2809.99,"end":2811.99,"text":"那我們政府"},{"start":2811.99,"end":2813.99,"text":"執政黨這邊是用一個行政"},{"start":2813.99,"end":2815.99,"text":"架構的底下當中 要來推"},{"start":2815.99,"end":2817.99,"text":"這個未來的這個"},{"start":2817.99,"end":2819.99,"text":"兒童的這個未來的這個帳戶"},{"start":2819.99,"end":2821.99,"text":"不過就這個概念來說的話"},{"start":2821.99,"end":2823.99,"text":"剛剛您聽了民眾黨團"},{"start":2823.99,"end":2825.99,"text":"的一個概念 民眾黨團"},{"start":2825.99,"end":2827.99,"text":"跟這個政府部門主要"},{"start":2827.99,"end":2829.99,"text":"的部分呢 就是在啟動性的部分"},{"start":2829.99,"end":2831.99,"text":"的規劃跟設計 那後續"},{"start":2831.99,"end":2833.99,"text":"的這個津貼的部分的概念"},{"start":2833.99,"end":2835.99,"text":"其實國民黨團 民眾黨團跟"},{"start":2835.99,"end":2837.99,"text":"政府部門是雷同的"},{"start":2837.99,"end":2839.99,"text":"也就是說呢 基本上呢"},{"start":2839.99,"end":2841.99,"text":"到最後的投資的方向的話"},{"start":2841.99,"end":2843.99,"text":"還是在一個共同基金的"},{"start":2843.99,"end":2845.99,"text":"架構當中 而不是一個"},{"start":2845.99,"end":2847.99,"text":"專屬的一個個人的"},{"start":2847.99,"end":2849.99,"text":"一個TESA 兒童TESA的一個概念"},{"start":2849.99,"end":2851.99,"text":"那我為什麼特別強調"},{"start":2851.99,"end":2853.99,"text":"個人帳戶而不是所謂的"},{"start":2853.99,"end":2855.99,"text":"這個共同帳戶"},{"start":2855.99,"end":2857.99,"text":"這差別性在這邊"},{"start":2857.99,"end":2859.99,"text":"第一個 個人帳戶制的部分"},{"start":2859.99,"end":2861.99,"text":"在勞退的部分有個人帳戶制"},{"start":2861.99,"end":2863.99,"text":"然後在TESA的部分有個人投資的"},{"start":2863.99,"end":2865.99,"text":"這個帳戶 這不論是"},{"start":2865.99,"end":2867.99,"text":"美國 英國或日本"},{"start":2867.99,"end":2869.99,"text":"都是採取這樣個人帳戶制的方式"},{"start":2869.99,"end":2871.99,"text":"如果倘若是用"},{"start":2871.99,"end":2873.99,"text":"共同基金的方式"},{"start":2873.99,"end":2875.99,"text":"共同基金的方式就類似於說"},{"start":2875.99,"end":2877.99,"text":"我們的勞退的一個"},{"start":2877.99,"end":2879.99,"text":"專戶的概念 就是一個共同基金"},{"start":2879.99,"end":2881.99,"text":"共同基金的部分的"},{"start":2881.99,"end":2883.99,"text":"受益者呢 基本上如果投資"},{"start":2883.99,"end":2885.99,"text":"的受益的話 其實是回饋到"},{"start":2885.99,"end":2887.99,"text":"當初的提拔者的身上"},{"start":2887.99,"end":2889.99,"text":"也就是從政府部門將來可以少提煉"},{"start":2889.99,"end":2891.99,"text":"而不是直接回饋"},{"start":2891.99,"end":2893.99,"text":"個人帳戶之間他的帳戶"},{"start":2893.99,"end":2895.99,"text":"的這個金額當中"},{"start":2895.99,"end":2897.99,"text":"也就是說會變成一個福國"},{"start":2897.99,"end":2899.99,"text":"但是不夠利民的結果"},{"start":2899.99,"end":2901.99,"text":"那如果是用個人帳戶制的話"},{"start":2901.99,"end":2903.99,"text":"他每一個所帶來的"},{"start":2903.99,"end":2905.99,"text":"這個操作上的年化率"},{"start":2905.99,"end":2907.99,"text":"的這個累積的話"},{"start":2907.99,"end":2909.99,"text":"都會投資到個人帳戶"},{"start":2909.99,"end":2911.99,"text":"那我講一個比較具體的例子來說"},{"start":2911.99,"end":2913.99,"text":"如果按照說我們"},{"start":2913.99,"end":2915.99,"text":"用個人帳戶制的概念的話"},{"start":2915.99,"end":2917.99,"text":"以勞退金的個人帳戶制"},{"start":2917.99,"end":2919.99,"text":"他在整個"},{"start":2919.99,"end":2921.99,"text":"那個代操單位的所得"},{"start":2921.99,"end":2923.99,"text":"都回饋到勞工個人所有"},{"start":2923.99,"end":2925.99,"text":"但是以企業的部分"},{"start":2925.99,"end":2927.99,"text":"的勞退金 他所有"},{"start":2927.99,"end":2929.99,"text":"代操作的所得"},{"start":2929.99,"end":2931.99,"text":"都是為企業所有"},{"start":2931.99,"end":2933.99,"text":"並企業將來是少提撥"},{"start":2933.99,"end":2935.99,"text":"退休金到這個專戶"},{"start":2935.99,"end":2937.99,"text":"而不是直接回饋給勞工"},{"start":2937.99,"end":2939.99,"text":"差別性在這邊"},{"start":2939.99,"end":2941.99,"text":"同樣的方式呢 你如果用"},{"start":2941.99,"end":2943.99,"text":"這個共同基金的操作方式 一來"},{"start":2943.99,"end":2945.99,"text":"他只會讓政府減少提撥的金額"},{"start":2945.99,"end":2947.99,"text":"而不是直接"},{"start":2947.99,"end":2949.99,"text":"受惠於兒童本身"},{"start":2949.99,"end":2951.99,"text":"所以我個人是強調說"},{"start":2951.99,"end":2953.99,"text":"應該要採取個人帳戶制的一個很重要理由"},{"start":2953.99,"end":2955.99,"text":"第一個是這個"},{"start":2955.99,"end":2957.99,"text":"第二個部分呢 就過往的年化率"},{"start":2957.99,"end":2959.99,"text":"18年台股的年化率來說"},{"start":2959.99,"end":2961.99,"text":"大約是11.5%"},{"start":2961.99,"end":2963.99,"text":"的這個結果"},{"start":2963.99,"end":2965.99,"text":"這投報率是11.5%結果"},{"start":2965.99,"end":2967.99,"text":"可是就勞退就職代操的成績來說"},{"start":2967.99,"end":2969.99,"text":"我們過去"},{"start":2969.99,"end":2971.99,"text":"比較同樣的時間 大約只有6.5%"},{"start":2971.99,"end":2973.99,"text":"也就是說呢"},{"start":2973.99,"end":2975.99,"text":"基本上以市場的年化率"},{"start":2975.99,"end":2977.99,"text":"你透過這個投資的方式"},{"start":2977.99,"end":2979.99,"text":"就有這個代操的反而是有兩倍之多"},{"start":2979.99,"end":2981.99,"text":"所以這樣累積起來呢"},{"start":2981.99,"end":2983.99,"text":"基本上呢 會最後一桶金"},{"start":2983.99,"end":2985.99,"text":"才會真的滿的"},{"start":2985.99,"end":2987.99,"text":"民眾黨都希望 它希望這一桶金"},{"start":2987.99,"end":2989.99,"text":"希望是滿的"},{"start":2989.99,"end":2991.99,"text":"那這一桶金怎麼用途呢"},{"start":2991.99,"end":2993.99,"text":"基本上我個人的主張當中 其實跟民眾黨"},{"start":2993.99,"end":2995.99,"text":"也沒有差別到哪裡去"},{"start":2995.99,"end":2997.99,"text":"其實就學就業"},{"start":2997.99,"end":2999.99,"text":"或者是它有其他的這個"},{"start":2999.99,"end":3001.99,"text":"房資的一個投期款的一個考量"},{"start":3001.99,"end":3003.99,"text":"這雷同"},{"start":3003.99,"end":3005.99,"text":"但是問題是制度上不一樣"},{"start":3005.99,"end":3007.99,"text":"你這桶金將來滿不滿"},{"start":3007.99,"end":3009.99,"text":"的程度呢 就差非常多"},{"start":3009.99,"end":3011.99,"text":"我覺得這邊還是要肯定一點"},{"start":3011.99,"end":3013.99,"text":"就是說 以政府部門來說"},{"start":3013.99,"end":3015.99,"text":"它的方式 0到6歲的部分"},{"start":3015.99,"end":3017.99,"text":"提撥2500"},{"start":3017.99,"end":3019.99,"text":"但7到18歲的部分呢 是2500"},{"start":3019.99,"end":3021.99,"text":"另外呢 投入到帳戶是2500"},{"start":3021.99,"end":3023.99,"text":"而這2500的作用呢 跟我原來對照的版本"},{"start":3023.99,"end":3025.99,"text":"然後1200、1200"},{"start":3025.99,"end":3027.99,"text":"少了這個自提的這個制度上"},{"start":3027.99,"end":3029.99,"text":"一個複雜性之外"},{"start":3029.99,"end":3031.99,"text":"最重要 它只要擺對地方"},{"start":3032.74,"end":3034.74,"text":"它接下來再配合市場的年化率"},{"start":3034.74,"end":3036.74,"text":"它接下來一桶金的金額"},{"start":3036.74,"end":3038.74,"text":"很可能就會有150萬之多"},{"start":3038.74,"end":3040.74,"text":"所以我在這邊呢"},{"start":3040.74,"end":3042.74,"text":"想要跟時部長這邊進行一個對話"},{"start":3042.74,"end":3044.74,"text":"行政部門在做這樣的規劃的情況底下"},{"start":3044.74,"end":3046.74,"text":"即便在行政架構當中"},{"start":3046.74,"end":3048.74,"text":"即便你不立法的情況"},{"start":3048.74,"end":3050.74,"text":"底下 現在的個人"},{"start":3050.74,"end":3052.74,"text":"帳戶制 以及現在金管會"},{"start":3052.74,"end":3054.74,"text":"的這個TESA的概念"},{"start":3054.74,"end":3056.74,"text":"可以把延伸到兒少的TESA"},{"start":3056.74,"end":3058.74,"text":"你不用修法"},{"start":3058.74,"end":3060.74,"text":"但是你的收益會更多"},{"start":3060.74,"end":3062.74,"text":"你一樣投入2500"},{"start":3063.65,"end":3065.65,"text":"你投入2500"},{"start":3065.65,"end":3067.65,"text":"你投入這個帳戶當中2500"},{"start":3067.65,"end":3069.65,"text":"是一個存量的概念"},{"start":3069.65,"end":3071.65,"text":"不是一個流量的概念"},{"start":3071.65,"end":3073.65,"text":"可是你如果投入這2500當中"},{"start":3073.65,"end":3075.65,"text":"是用個人帳戶制的話"},{"start":3075.65,"end":3077.65,"text":"你是用流量的概念的話"},{"start":3077.65,"end":3079.65,"text":"你接下來的金額就完全是不一樣"},{"start":3079.65,"end":3081.65,"text":"所以我是請說行政部門這邊好好思考一下"},{"start":3081.65,"end":3083.65,"text":"好 謝謝郭國文發言人"},{"start":3083.65,"end":3085.65,"text":"郭國文是體安委員"},{"start":3085.65,"end":3087.65,"text":"那時部長請發言好嗎"},{"start":3086.89,"end":3088.89,"text":"好 謝謝韓院長還有各位委員"},{"start":3088.89,"end":3094.89,"text":"那緊就這個行政部門的評估來跟各位委員報告"},{"start":3094.89,"end":3098.89,"text":"那其實現在這個行政院也已經同意"},{"start":3098.89,"end":3100.89,"text":"那麼讓行政部門"},{"start":3100.89,"end":3104.89,"text":"比照之前從101年開始實施的育兒津貼"},{"start":3104.89,"end":3106.89,"text":"那麼編列預算"},{"start":3106.89,"end":3108.89,"text":"那麼以作業要點來執行"},{"start":3108.89,"end":3114.89,"text":"所以目前已經在這個預算書上面"},{"start":3114.89,"end":3118.89,"text":"編列明年開始要推動這個育兒津貼"},{"start":3118.89,"end":3120.89,"text":"那麼0到6歲每個月有5000塊"},{"start":3120.89,"end":3122.89,"text":"然後6歲到18歲"},{"start":3122.89,"end":3126.89,"text":"每月2500存入一個專戶"},{"start":3126.89,"end":3130.89,"text":"2500直接由父母來支領"},{"start":3130.89,"end":3134.89,"text":"那麼這個執行的方式是無需個人開戶"},{"start":3134.89,"end":3136.89,"text":"直到18歲的時候"},{"start":3136.89,"end":3138.89,"text":"再依當時的收益"},{"start":3138.89,"end":3140.89,"text":"或者是保障基本的"},{"start":3140.89,"end":3142.89,"text":"兩年級定存利率的收益"},{"start":3142.89,"end":3146.89,"text":"來給予這個18歲成年的少年"},{"start":3146.89,"end":3150.89,"text":"所以這個整個制度上"},{"start":3150.89,"end":3152.89,"text":"大概現在已經都規劃"},{"start":3152.89,"end":3154.89,"text":"那麼明年就可以上路"},{"start":3154.89,"end":3156.89,"text":"那至於剛剛有委員特別提到"},{"start":3156.89,"end":3158.89,"text":"目前我們還有一個是"},{"start":3158.89,"end":3162.89,"text":"兒少未來教育及發展帳戶"},{"start":3162.89,"end":3164.89,"text":"那這個帳戶的設計"},{"start":3164.89,"end":3168.89,"text":"裡面包含了這個政府的對撥"},{"start":3168.89,"end":3171.89,"text":"就是這個父母幫兒少開了一個帳戶"},{"start":3171.89,"end":3175.89,"text":"然後每個月這個父母有存入多少"},{"start":3175.89,"end":3177.89,"text":"那麼政府會對撥"},{"start":3177.89,"end":3180.89,"text":"不過這個是僅限於中低收入戶"},{"start":3180.89,"end":3182.89,"text":"跟特別的福利對象"},{"start":3182.89,"end":3185.89,"text":"所以並不是普發性的設計"},{"start":3185.89,"end":3188.89,"text":"所以今天就這個國民黨團"},{"start":3188.89,"end":3190.89,"text":"跟民眾黨團的提案"},{"start":3190.89,"end":3192.89,"text":"那麼行政部門的評估意見是"},{"start":3192.89,"end":3197.89,"text":"第一個那麼在立法的議旨第一條"},{"start":3197.89,"end":3199.89,"text":"那麼就明定了要解決"},{"start":3199.89,"end":3201.89,"text":"要解決跨世代的貧富差距"},{"start":3201.89,"end":3202.89,"text":"那但是呢"},{"start":3202.89,"end":3204.89,"text":"回出整個的設計"},{"start":3204.89,"end":3206.89,"text":"那麼裡面除了啟動金之外"},{"start":3206.89,"end":3208.89,"text":"上有自存款"},{"start":3208.89,"end":3211.89,"text":"上有企業的這個贊助款"},{"start":3211.89,"end":3215.89,"text":"那麼這個到底多少的這個"},{"start":3215.89,"end":3219.89,"text":"這個弱勢家庭有這個能力繼續存"},{"start":3219.89,"end":3224.89,"text":"那麼來享受後面的這個操作的收益"},{"start":3224.89,"end":3227.89,"text":"甚至是在政府的預算補貼"},{"start":3227.89,"end":3229.89,"text":"其虧損的時候"},{"start":3229.89,"end":3234.89,"text":"那麼會造成另外一個世代貧富差距的加大"},{"start":3234.89,"end":3235.89,"text":"所以這個是第一個"},{"start":3235.89,"end":3238.89,"text":"那第二個就賦稅公平來看"},{"start":3238.89,"end":3240.89,"text":"也是同樣的那麼免稅"},{"start":3240.89,"end":3244.89,"text":"那麼有一些家庭多少能夠享受到"},{"start":3244.89,"end":3247.89,"text":"這個額外的這些自存款"},{"start":3247.89,"end":3250.89,"text":"跟企業贊助等等的這個稅賦減免"},{"start":3250.89,"end":3252.89,"text":"這個也是存疑的"},{"start":3252.89,"end":3254.89,"text":"再者在行政程序上"},{"start":3254.89,"end":3257.89,"text":"我們現在的設計上是無需個人開戶"},{"start":3257.89,"end":3260.89,"text":"那麼直接那麼在指定的專戶裡面"},{"start":3260.89,"end":3264.89,"text":"那麼由這個一個共同的這個"},{"start":3264.89,"end":3265.89,"text":"基金來操作"},{"start":3265.89,"end":3267.89,"text":"在18歲的時候再來提領"},{"start":3267.89,"end":3270.89,"text":"所以在行政程序上也簡化許多"},{"start":3270.89,"end":3272.89,"text":"所以我們是建議"},{"start":3272.89,"end":3275.89,"text":"那麼維持現在那麼由行政部門"},{"start":3275.89,"end":3278.89,"text":"那麼透過預算法編列預算"},{"start":3278.89,"end":3279.89,"text":"經立法院的審查之後"},{"start":3279.89,"end":3281.89,"text":"讓我們來推動"},{"start":3281.89,"end":3283.89,"text":"以上補充說明"},{"start":3284.16,"end":3285.16,"text":"好 謝謝市部長"},{"start":3288.21,"end":3290.21,"text":"張永發言然後劉淑冰委員請準備"},{"start":3291.74,"end":3292.74,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":3292.74,"end":3293.74,"text":"我就簡單啦"},{"start":3293.74,"end":3295.74,"text":"大家講過了我就不再講了"},{"start":3296.14,"end":3298.14,"text":"台灣民眾黨這個版本"},{"start":3298.14,"end":3300.14,"text":"我是覺得可以再考慮一下"},{"start":3300.14,"end":3302.14,"text":"因為這有一點開玩笑"},{"start":3302.14,"end":3303.14,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":3303.14,"end":3304.14,"text":"你說立法目的"},{"start":3304.14,"end":3306.14,"text":"你要解決世代貧富的差距"},{"start":3306.14,"end":3308.14,"text":"但是你看你們這堆的設計"},{"start":3308.14,"end":3311.14,"text":"設計裡面的自存款的部分"},{"start":3311.14,"end":3313.14,"text":"因為開給人每年的名義"},{"start":3313.14,"end":3315.14,"text":"自己存入的帳戶一年"},{"start":3315.14,"end":3318.14,"text":"每一戶你修正後變20萬對不對"},{"start":3318.14,"end":3321.14,"text":"你本來是要解決貧富差距"},{"start":3321.14,"end":3324.14,"text":"你現在這樣把它定下去以後"},{"start":3324.14,"end":3327.14,"text":"其實是在加大貧富的一個差距"},{"start":3327.14,"end":3330.14,"text":"難道你們不知道會產生這樣的狀況嗎"},{"start":3332.35,"end":3336.35,"text":"我搞不懂一套法律的一個設計裡面"},{"start":3336.35,"end":3340.35,"text":"你說政府基於不管是福利行政"},{"start":3340.35,"end":3342.35,"text":"或者給付行政"},{"start":3342.35,"end":3344.35,"text":"把這個整個預算送到國會裡面來"},{"start":3344.35,"end":3345.35,"text":"大家來審查"},{"start":3345.35,"end":3347.35,"text":"那當然就是一個法律案"},{"start":3347.35,"end":3349.35,"text":"我知道你們擔心的就是說"},{"start":3349.35,"end":3351.35,"text":"如果今年有明年萬一沒有呢"},{"start":3351.35,"end":3352.35,"text":"你擔心的是什麼"},{"start":3352.35,"end":3354.35,"text":"一個專法有這樣的好處"},{"start":3354.35,"end":3358.35,"text":"我可以知道你們用心良苦"},{"start":3358.35,"end":3361.35,"text":"要讓他可以遠遠流長"},{"start":3361.35,"end":3362.35,"text":"大家一定都有"},{"start":3362.35,"end":3364.35,"text":"但是所設計出來的"},{"start":3364.35,"end":3367.35,"text":"反而是跟你們所謂立法目的講的"},{"start":3367.35,"end":3370.35,"text":"要解決世代貧富的一個差距"},{"start":3370.35,"end":3372.35,"text":"剛好背道而馳"},{"start":3372.35,"end":3375.35,"text":"你當作大家都低收入的家庭"},{"start":3375.35,"end":3377.35,"text":"真的有辦法來給他欠20萬"},{"start":3377.35,"end":3378.35,"text":"那麼好欠"},{"start":3378.35,"end":3380.35,"text":"然後企業大家來給他支持"},{"start":3380.35,"end":3382.35,"text":"不然你們要做這個版本"},{"start":3382.35,"end":3384.35,"text":"不然你們這條你也用腳踏夫想一下"},{"start":3384.35,"end":3385.35,"text":"了解一下"},{"start":3385.35,"end":3388.35,"text":"所以你們巴西很想去發揮"},{"start":3388.35,"end":3390.35,"text":"很大的一個影響力"},{"start":3390.35,"end":3391.35,"text":"好事"},{"start":3391.35,"end":3393.35,"text":"可是你們變成是代行"},{"start":3393.35,"end":3396.35,"text":"這個在野者的巴西"},{"start":3396.35,"end":3399.35,"text":"要來代行執政者的一個職責"},{"start":3399.35,"end":3401.35,"text":"你如果說今天行政議"},{"start":3401.35,"end":3402.35,"text":"整個全部對這方面"},{"start":3402.35,"end":3404.35,"text":"全部都沒有提出一個對策"},{"start":3404.35,"end":3405.35,"text":"一個計畫"},{"start":3405.35,"end":3407.35,"text":"你拿這個案子怎麼通"},{"start":3407.35,"end":3410.35,"text":"那對你這個對於"},{"start":3410.35,"end":3412.35,"text":"這樣的一個條文的設計"},{"start":3412.35,"end":3415.35,"text":"我覺得萬萬真的是不可行"},{"start":3415.35,"end":3418.35,"text":"以前你這對我們所有在立法院裡面"},{"start":3418.35,"end":3420.35,"text":"在現在的結構裡面"},{"start":3420.35,"end":3422.35,"text":"所提出來這種大幅的增加"},{"start":3422.35,"end":3424.35,"text":"政府那個整個一個稅出的部分"},{"start":3424.35,"end":3425.35,"text":"你跟他拿出來"},{"start":3425.35,"end":3426.35,"text":"條文拿出來"},{"start":3426.35,"end":3428.35,"text":"你也不問行政部問"},{"start":3428.35,"end":3430.35,"text":"你整個行政院"},{"start":3430.35,"end":3432.35,"text":"你的整個裁員從哪裡來"},{"start":3432.35,"end":3435.35,"text":"你們也就完全沒有考慮到這個"},{"start":3435.35,"end":3436.35,"text":"而且最主要"},{"start":3436.35,"end":3438.35,"text":"你看你提供的中和守的稅"},{"start":3438.35,"end":3439.35,"text":"的列舉的扣除這個部分"},{"start":3439.35,"end":3441.35,"text":"對於那個不需要"},{"start":3441.35,"end":3442.35,"text":"這個繳稅"},{"start":3442.35,"end":3443.35,"text":"或者相對經濟弱勢"},{"start":3443.35,"end":3445.35,"text":"還是沒有能力自存的家庭"},{"start":3445.35,"end":3448.35,"text":"你沒有那個減稅的一個時役"},{"start":3448.35,"end":3449.35,"text":"變成到最後"},{"start":3449.35,"end":3452.35,"text":"高所得者"},{"start":3452.35,"end":3455.35,"text":"你想說大幅度的一個減稅的一個利益"},{"start":3455.35,"end":3457.35,"text":"這個跟我們"},{"start":3457.35,"end":3459.35,"text":"跟你們所提的說"},{"start":3459.35,"end":3461.35,"text":"立法目的提這一部法令"},{"start":3461.35,"end":3463.35,"text":"你這個台灣兒少成長跟未來彰化"},{"start":3463.35,"end":3466.35,"text":"你要解決跨世代貧富差距"},{"start":3466.35,"end":3468.35,"text":"剛剛好相反"},{"start":3468.35,"end":3471.35,"text":"你會加大整個這個貧富的一個差距"},{"start":3471.35,"end":3473.35,"text":"所以民進黨團表達反對"},{"start":3473.35,"end":3474.35,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":3474.35,"end":3475.35,"text":"希望你喜歡幹事長"},{"start":3475.35,"end":3477.35,"text":"接下來三位委員要發言"},{"start":3477.35,"end":3478.35,"text":"不是黨團幹部"},{"start":3478.35,"end":3480.35,"text":"麻煩拜託控制一下時間"},{"start":3480.35,"end":3481.35,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":3481.35,"end":3482.35,"text":"我們接下來請劉淑賓委員發言"},{"start":3482.35,"end":3483.35,"text":"林月琴委員請準備"},{"start":3486.12,"end":3488.12,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":3488.12,"end":3492.12,"text":"國民黨跟民眾黨所提出來的這個"},{"start":3492.12,"end":3493.12,"text":"再修正動議"},{"start":3493.12,"end":3496.12,"text":"最主要的重點是因應了"},{"start":3496.12,"end":3498.12,"text":"今年五月中旬"},{"start":3498.12,"end":3501.12,"text":"賴清德總統他所提出來的"},{"start":3501.12,"end":3505.12,"text":"台灣的人口對策的這個新戰略"},{"start":3505.12,"end":3507.12,"text":"那這個重點之下"},{"start":3507.12,"end":3508.12,"text":"我們可以看得出來是"},{"start":3508.12,"end":3511.12,"text":"這個預算其實我們都精算過了"},{"start":3511.12,"end":3513.12,"text":"如果是照民進黨政府"},{"start":3513.12,"end":3516.12,"text":"他們用的是一個作業的辦法"},{"start":3516.12,"end":3518.12,"text":"這要點來做的時候"},{"start":3518.12,"end":3520.12,"text":"他其實的這個金額可能是"},{"start":3520.12,"end":3523.12,"text":"政府每年投入大概776億"},{"start":3523.12,"end":3526.12,"text":"但是我們民眾黨跟國民黨的"},{"start":3526.12,"end":3527.12,"text":"這個版本當中"},{"start":3527.12,"end":3528.12,"text":"我們算過的話"},{"start":3528.12,"end":3530.12,"text":"在2.0的這個版本當中"},{"start":3530.12,"end":3535.12,"text":"在修正當中是676億一年的這個經費"},{"start":3535.12,"end":3536.12,"text":"其實還更少"},{"start":3536.12,"end":3537.12,"text":"那為什麼會有這個差異性"},{"start":3537.12,"end":3539.12,"text":"最重要的原因就是因為"},{"start":3539.12,"end":3542.12,"text":"我們有家庭的一個支柱"},{"start":3542.12,"end":3544.12,"text":"那這個部分他包括"},{"start":3544.12,"end":3546.12,"text":"還有企業可能也可以自在加入"},{"start":3546.12,"end":3548.12,"text":"而且包括他有基金的這個管理"},{"start":3548.12,"end":3549.12,"text":"那第二個部分呢"},{"start":3549.12,"end":3550.12,"text":"兩個最大的差異是"},{"start":3550.12,"end":3551.12,"text":"我們把它法制化了"},{"start":3551.12,"end":3552.12,"text":"因為就是要避免說"},{"start":3552.12,"end":3555.12,"text":"因為政黨的有一些的這個更替之後"},{"start":3555.12,"end":3556.12,"text":"會有這個一個"},{"start":3556.12,"end":3559.12,"text":"自己的一個考量力的考量"},{"start":3559.12,"end":3560.12,"text":"但是我們變成說"},{"start":3560.12,"end":3561.12,"text":"大家竟然把少子化"},{"start":3561.12,"end":3563.12,"text":"變成一個非常重要的政策的話"},{"start":3563.12,"end":3565.12,"text":"就應該把它法制化"},{"start":3565.12,"end":3567.12,"text":"那第三個重點在於說"},{"start":3567.12,"end":3569.12,"text":"我剛才也回應到的是"},{"start":3570.65,"end":3572.65,"text":"那個民進黨的委員他們所提到的"},{"start":3572.65,"end":3574.65,"text":"這個部分就是剛才說的"},{"start":3574.65,"end":3576.65,"text":"這個不平等的這個情況"},{"start":3576.65,"end":3577.65,"text":"其實是不會的"},{"start":3577.65,"end":3578.65,"text":"因為我剛才回顧了一個"},{"start":3578.65,"end":3580.65,"text":"是財政經費的問題"},{"start":3580.65,"end":3582.65,"text":"那第二個問題就是說"},{"start":3582.65,"end":3583.65,"text":"這個平等的問題"},{"start":3583.65,"end":3585.65,"text":"因為所有投入會有"},{"start":3585.65,"end":3587.65,"text":"你們所擔心的會有不平等的原因"},{"start":3587.65,"end":3588.65,"text":"你是不會的"},{"start":3588.65,"end":3590.65,"text":"因為是你本身自己投注多少"},{"start":3590.65,"end":3592.65,"text":"就是你自己的使用"},{"start":3592.65,"end":3594.65,"text":"你現在投入到你未來的使用"},{"start":3594.65,"end":3595.65,"text":"然後加上一個基金的這個"},{"start":3595.65,"end":3596.65,"text":"累積的效果"},{"start":3596.65,"end":3597.65,"text":"那你本來沒有投入這麼多"},{"start":3597.65,"end":3602.65,"text":"你就不可能再期待你會有更多的部分"},{"start":3602.65,"end":3603.65,"text":"那這個多的部分就是"},{"start":3603.65,"end":3604.65,"text":"應該是政府應該給大家"},{"start":3604.65,"end":3606.65,"text":"每一個平均的這個部分"},{"start":3606.65,"end":3608.65,"text":"所以這個理由其實"},{"start":3608.65,"end":3610.65,"text":"民進黨委員所提到的"},{"start":3610.65,"end":3612.65,"text":"這樣子的一個那種擔心"},{"start":3612.65,"end":3614.65,"text":"我覺得是有點有過濾的"},{"start":3614.65,"end":3615.65,"text":"我們就讓他本身你支付多少"},{"start":3615.65,"end":3616.65,"text":"就讓他投出多少"},{"start":3616.65,"end":3618.65,"text":"那我做這樣的一個補充"},{"start":3619.14,"end":3620.14,"text":"謝謝 劉淑斌委員發言"},{"start":3620.14,"end":3621.14,"text":"林月晴委員發言完畢"},{"start":3621.14,"end":3623.14,"text":"陳金輝委員請準備"},{"start":3623.14,"end":3624.14,"text":"林委員請"},{"start":3624.14,"end":3625.14,"text":"好 我想這個議題"},{"start":3625.14,"end":3629.14,"text":"應該不能簡化成誰比較願意給孩子錢"},{"start":3629.14,"end":3631.14,"text":"真正要問的是"},{"start":3631.14,"end":3633.14,"text":"哪一套制度真的比較公平"},{"start":3633.14,"end":3636.14,"text":"比較穩 而且比較能夠執行"},{"start":3636.14,"end":3639.14,"text":"而且真的是要能讓家庭受益"},{"start":3639.14,"end":3642.14,"text":"上午支持國家要投資0到18歲的兒少"},{"start":3642.14,"end":3644.14,"text":"可是制度不能這樣做"},{"start":3644.14,"end":3647.14,"text":"為什麼 我想之前在這個草案討論當中"},{"start":3647.14,"end":3650.14,"text":"也很多學者公開的提出疑慮"},{"start":3650.77,"end":3653.77,"text":"蔡明芳教授指出該草案沒有辦法"},{"start":3653.77,"end":3654.77,"text":"真正解決少子化問題"},{"start":3654.77,"end":3657.77,"text":"而且直言在貧富差距的基礎上"},{"start":3657.77,"end":3660.77,"text":"繼續談平權就是繼續維持貧富差距"},{"start":3660.77,"end":3662.77,"text":"而且甚至擴大貧富差距"},{"start":3663.96,"end":3666.96,"text":"那當天葉崇洋教授也認為說"},{"start":3666.96,"end":3668.96,"text":"今天政府應該投資"},{"start":3668.96,"end":3670.96,"text":"要把資源投入到公共托育"},{"start":3670.96,"end":3671.96,"text":"而非投入到金融市場"},{"start":3671.96,"end":3673.96,"text":"他批評這個制度"},{"start":3673.96,"end":3675.96,"text":"不是在投資在未來的孩子上"},{"start":3675.96,"end":3678.96,"text":"那也是在投資在金融市場上而已"},{"start":3678.96,"end":3680.96,"text":"那是投資在有錢人的身上"},{"start":3680.96,"end":3683.96,"text":"而且之前我也一直在講說"},{"start":3683.96,"end":3686.96,"text":"為什麼我們對這一塊事實上有擔憂"},{"start":3686.96,"end":3687.96,"text":"因為根據條例"},{"start":3688.53,"end":3691.53,"text":"除了政府給每位孩子的啟動金跟補助款外"},{"start":3691.53,"end":3694.53,"text":"家長每年還可以自存最高十萬"},{"start":3694.53,"end":3698.53,"text":"家長的雇主也能提員工加碼五萬"},{"start":3698.53,"end":3700.53,"text":"且擁有底稅的優惠"},{"start":3700.53,"end":3702.53,"text":"一個高收入的家庭"},{"start":3702.53,"end":3705.53,"text":"自存款跟企業款每年存好存滿"},{"start":3705.53,"end":3707.53,"text":"十八歲真的都可以"},{"start":3707.53,"end":3710.53,"text":"從本金最高可以累積到196萬"},{"start":3710.53,"end":3712.53,"text":"可是若是家庭呢"},{"start":3712.53,"end":3715.53,"text":"家長通常他們是非典型工作者"},{"start":3715.53,"end":3718.53,"text":"他們可能會事實上是打零工的人"},{"start":3718.53,"end":3720.53,"text":"他們沒有所謂的雇主"},{"start":3720.53,"end":3722.53,"text":"怎麼來可有辦法讓他們"},{"start":3722.53,"end":3725.53,"text":"能夠有一個雇主幫他存"},{"start":3725.53,"end":3727.53,"text":"然後家長收入高又幫他存"},{"start":3727.53,"end":3729.53,"text":"所以又還可以抵稅"},{"start":3729.53,"end":3732.53,"text":"那最後這些若是家庭的孩子"},{"start":3732.53,"end":3735.53,"text":"最後只能剩下政府投入的16萬"},{"start":3735.53,"end":3738.53,"text":"光是本金差異就有180萬"},{"start":3738.53,"end":3742.53,"text":"再加上18年的投資的富力成長"},{"start":3742.53,"end":3745.53,"text":"兩者的資產已經可以擴大到250萬"},{"start":3745.53,"end":3746.53,"text":"甚至到300萬"},{"start":3746.53,"end":3748.53,"text":"這個一再再講"},{"start":3748.53,"end":3752.53,"text":"每次都說我們沒有擴大貧富差距"},{"start":3752.53,"end":3754.53,"text":"明明就是擴大貧富差距"},{"start":3754.53,"end":3756.53,"text":"我在質詢的時候也一直在提醒"},{"start":3756.53,"end":3761.53,"text":"在野黨說這個兒童及少年未來教育及發展帳戶"},{"start":3761.53,"end":3764.53,"text":"是一個社會救助的計畫"},{"start":3764.53,"end":3766.53,"text":"那個是對弱勢"},{"start":3766.53,"end":3768.53,"text":"那過去他們要去存款的時候"},{"start":3768.53,"end":3770.53,"text":"就相對資源上有困難"},{"start":3770.53,"end":3773.53,"text":"可是當你說這兩塊是分開來的"},{"start":3773.53,"end":3776.53,"text":"可是這一塊你反而是要拿大筆的鈔票去投資"},{"start":3776.53,"end":3778.53,"text":"高收入家庭"},{"start":3778.53,"end":3781.53,"text":"那到底我不知道在兩黨的眼裡"},{"start":3781.53,"end":3783.53,"text":"到底弱勢家庭、中產家庭"},{"start":3784.4,"end":3786.4,"text":"你們是怎麼看待他們的"},{"start":3786.4,"end":3788.4,"text":"難道說他欺負弱勢嗎"},{"start":3788.4,"end":3790.4,"text":"難道對我們的弱勢都這樣子"},{"start":3790.4,"end":3792.4,"text":"每次打著民生"},{"start":3792.4,"end":3794.4,"text":"可是真正有在照顧弱勢嗎"},{"start":3794.4,"end":3797.4,"text":"另外一個就是民眾黨剛才在提說"},{"start":3797.4,"end":3799.4,"text":"行政成本就是"},{"start":3799.4,"end":3802.4,"text":"因為現在政府現在提出的方案"},{"start":3802.4,"end":3804.4,"text":"最大的優勢就是簡單直接"},{"start":3804.4,"end":3807.4,"text":"而且可以利用既有的戶籍跟行政資料"},{"start":3807.4,"end":3811.4,"text":"由政府主動給付直接撥戶到專戶"},{"start":3811.4,"end":3812.4,"text":"不需要家長"},{"start":3812.4,"end":3815.4,"text":"跑銀行也不需要重新建立一套複雜的制度"},{"start":3815.4,"end":3816.4,"text":"目前我們的是這樣"},{"start":3816.4,"end":3818.4,"text":"可是民眾黨版本是要求"},{"start":3818.4,"end":3821.4,"text":"民眾要到金融機構開立實體帳戶"},{"start":3821.4,"end":3822.4,"text":"帳戶裡又分成"},{"start":3822.4,"end":3825.4,"text":"啟動金、政府撥補、家長自存款"},{"start":3825.4,"end":3827.4,"text":"企業贊助款跟基金收益"},{"start":3827.4,"end":3830.4,"text":"每一筆錢都要分別記帳核對管理"},{"start":3830.4,"end":3833.4,"text":"還要跨金融機構、勞保局"},{"start":3833.4,"end":3837.4,"text":"基金的運用、稅務、機關跟地方政府的處理"},{"start":3837.4,"end":3841.4,"text":"那政府的做法是要把行政責任留在政府"},{"start":3841.4,"end":3844.4,"text":"讓錢直接拿到家庭手上"},{"start":3844.4,"end":3847.4,"text":"民眾黨的做法卻是把行政責任丟給家長"},{"start":3847.4,"end":3849.4,"text":"讓人民自己開戶補件"},{"start":3849.4,"end":3850.4,"text":"查詢、變更資料"},{"start":3850.4,"end":3852.4,"text":"到底有效嗎?"},{"start":3852.4,"end":3855.4,"text":"我覺得本來過去的兒童及少年"},{"start":3855.4,"end":3857.4,"text":"未來發教育及發展帳戶"},{"start":3857.4,"end":3860.4,"text":"應該要擴充這一個"},{"start":3860.4,"end":3861.4,"text":"而不是又另起另外一個"},{"start":3861.4,"end":3864.4,"text":"事實上是在幫助高收入的家庭"},{"start":3864.4,"end":3865.4,"text":"以上"},{"start":3865.4,"end":3866.4,"text":"謝謝林業勤委員"},{"start":3866.4,"end":3867.4,"text":"陳經緯委員請發言"},{"start":3868.35,"end":3871.35,"text":"謝謝主席、謝謝各位委員還有官員出席"},{"start":3871.35,"end":3874.35,"text":"基本上是想讓大家先知道一個數據"},{"start":3874.35,"end":3879.35,"text":"就是我們去年出生是10萬7千個小朋友"},{"start":3879.35,"end":3881.35,"text":"比起國發會低推估"},{"start":3881.35,"end":3886.35,"text":"國發會的最低、最悲觀的推估是12萬5千個新生兒"},{"start":3886.35,"end":3888.35,"text":"結果只有10萬7千"},{"start":3888.35,"end":3891.35,"text":"今年更擔心是9萬以下"},{"start":3891.84,"end":3893.84,"text":"今年更擔心是9萬以下"},{"start":3893.84,"end":3895.84,"text":"2070年這樣子算下來的話"},{"start":3895.84,"end":3898.84,"text":"2070年台灣人口會是現在的一半"},{"start":3898.84,"end":3902.84,"text":"所以我們是希望大家不要再對育兒"},{"start":3902.84,"end":3905.84,"text":"或者是給孩子的第一桶精尚"},{"start":3905.84,"end":3907.84,"text":"居然在這樣子的場合"},{"start":3907.84,"end":3908.84,"text":"做這樣子的爭吵"},{"start":3908.84,"end":3910.84,"text":"我是覺得有一點點荒謬"},{"start":3910.84,"end":3913.84,"text":"因為我們給馬桶公司做炸藥的錢不手軟"},{"start":3913.84,"end":3917.84,"text":"我們給裝潢公司做炸藥的錢也不手軟"},{"start":3917.84,"end":3920.84,"text":"可是我們給各種政治傾向的家庭"},{"start":3920.84,"end":3922.84,"text":"小朋友的津貼"},{"start":3922.84,"end":3926.84,"text":"還有給他們未來出社會18年以後的第一桶金"},{"start":3926.84,"end":3928.84,"text":"我們卻在這邊吵"},{"start":3928.84,"end":3929.84,"text":"真的是太離譜了"},{"start":3929.84,"end":3932.84,"text":"我們這些錢不管家裡是什麼政治傾向"},{"start":3932.84,"end":3934.84,"text":"他們都可以啊"},{"start":3934.84,"end":3937.84,"text":"如果說你們很在意這些家長的背景"},{"start":3937.84,"end":3943.84,"text":"每一個支持民進黨、支持民眾黨、支持國民黨的家庭"},{"start":3943.84,"end":3945.84,"text":"裡面不是也都有"},{"start":3946.38,"end":3947.38,"text":"這個經濟狀況不同"},{"start":3947.38,"end":3949.38,"text":"或者是在公司裡面"},{"start":3949.38,"end":3951.38,"text":"這個公司有提供彈性育兒"},{"start":3951.38,"end":3953.38,"text":"有的公司沒有提供彈性育兒"},{"start":3953.38,"end":3956.38,"text":"所以依照對面的說法是說"},{"start":3956.38,"end":3958.38,"text":"有提供彈性育兒的人也應該取消"},{"start":3958.38,"end":3960.38,"text":"大家一視同仁"},{"start":3960.38,"end":3963.38,"text":"不然好像小朋友這個有在公司上班的"},{"start":3963.38,"end":3965.38,"text":"家裡有彈性育兒"},{"start":3965.38,"end":3966.38,"text":"就是他的privilege"},{"start":3966.38,"end":3968.38,"text":"這真的是太奇怪了"},{"start":3968.38,"end":3970.38,"text":"然後再來呢"},{"start":3970.38,"end":3971.38,"text":"我想講一下"},{"start":3971.38,"end":3973.38,"text":"剛剛有講到有一些教授說"},{"start":3973.38,"end":3975.38,"text":"這個錢應該要花在公托"},{"start":3975.38,"end":3977.38,"text":"花在托育等等的"},{"start":3977.38,"end":3981.38,"text":"過去十年我們在這些小子化對策計畫"},{"start":3981.38,"end":3983.38,"text":"所謂的石重量部長說"},{"start":3983.38,"end":3985.38,"text":"無形的小子化辦公室"},{"start":3985.38,"end":3987.38,"text":"這個錢會少嗎"},{"start":3987.38,"end":3988.38,"text":"這個錢會少嗎"},{"start":3988.38,"end":3990.38,"text":"我已經去算完了"},{"start":3990.38,"end":3992.38,"text":"這個錢大概六七千億"},{"start":3992.38,"end":3995.38,"text":"六七千億放在小子化對策計畫"},{"start":3995.38,"end":3997.38,"text":"說要解決小子化"},{"start":3997.38,"end":3998.38,"text":"結果呢"},{"start":3998.38,"end":4001.38,"text":"人口是從22萬的新生兒"},{"start":4001.38,"end":4003.38,"text":"掉到10萬"},{"start":4003.38,"end":4005.38,"text":"再來明年可能掉到9萬"},{"start":4005.38,"end":4006.38,"text":"掉到8萬"},{"start":4006.38,"end":4010.38,"text":"所以這個教授真的覺得公托可以解決問題嗎"},{"start":4011.37,"end":4014.37,"text":"這個八九成小子化對策計畫裡面的錢"},{"start":4014.37,"end":4017.37,"text":"全部都花在津貼跟公托"},{"start":4017.37,"end":4019.37,"text":"好 再來我們就再講"},{"start":4019.37,"end":4020.37,"text":"這個帳戶呢"},{"start":4020.96,"end":4022.96,"text":"衛福部的帳戶之前"},{"start":4022.96,"end":4024.96,"text":"有一個非常非常資深的"},{"start":4024.96,"end":4026.96,"text":"民進黨的財政委員會的委員"},{"start":4026.96,"end":4028.96,"text":"就已經講說很沒有彈性"},{"start":4028.96,"end":4029.96,"text":"太保守"},{"start":4029.96,"end":4031.96,"text":"因為他對財政非常的熟練"},{"start":4031.96,"end":4034.96,"text":"並且他知道世界上很多先進的國家"},{"start":4034.96,"end":4036.96,"text":"都有這樣子同樣的做法"},{"start":4036.96,"end":4038.96,"text":"因為這個帳戶的錢"},{"start":4038.96,"end":4041.96,"text":"是為了讓小朋友跟家長分開的時候"},{"start":4041.96,"end":4042.96,"text":"家長沒有疑慮"},{"start":4042.96,"end":4045.96,"text":"今天是解決每一個月"},{"start":4045.96,"end":4047.96,"text":"家長急需用錢的時候給的"},{"start":4047.96,"end":4049.96,"text":"這兩個都很重要"},{"start":4049.96,"end":4051.96,"text":"這兩個都很重要"},{"start":4051.96,"end":4053.96,"text":"那當然這個非常資深的民進黨委員"},{"start":4053.96,"end":4056.96,"text":"他有先提藍白也先提"},{"start":4056.96,"end":4058.96,"text":"一樣差不多的概念"},{"start":4058.96,"end":4060.96,"text":"那當時衛福部是說"},{"start":4060.96,"end":4064.96,"text":"很不贊成孔家生貧富差距等等的"},{"start":4064.96,"end":4066.96,"text":"可是等到賴清德520"},{"start":4066.96,"end":4069.96,"text":"又說他有個大禮包"},{"start":4069.96,"end":4072.96,"text":"小子化議題提升至國家戰略層級"},{"start":4072.96,"end":4074.96,"text":"他也把它包進小子化"},{"start":4074.96,"end":4075.96,"text":"他也提了帳戶了"},{"start":4075.96,"end":4077.96,"text":"衛福部馬上又改口說"},{"start":4077.96,"end":4079.96,"text":"小子化不僅是家庭議題"},{"start":4079.96,"end":4081.96,"text":"更是台灣競爭力"},{"start":4081.96,"end":4084.96,"text":"跟社會永續發展的重要課題"},{"start":4084.96,"end":4087.96,"text":"毫不害臊的這樣子附和"},{"start":4087.96,"end":4089.96,"text":"是直接抄大家的作業"},{"start":4089.96,"end":4090.96,"text":"不管是津貼增加"},{"start":4090.96,"end":4094.96,"text":"或者是每一個小朋友的這個帳戶"},{"start":4094.96,"end":4096.96,"text":"那這個很資深的財政委員"},{"start":4096.96,"end":4098.96,"text":"他也說說實在的"},{"start":4098.96,"end":4100.96,"text":"衛福部這個帳戶過度保守"},{"start":4100.96,"end":4102.96,"text":"不一定有這麼多人需要"},{"start":4102.96,"end":4104.96,"text":"2500的成長津貼"},{"start":4104.96,"end":4106.96,"text":"我認為未來的第一桶金"},{"start":4106.96,"end":4107.96,"text":"才是設計的關鍵"},{"start":4107.96,"end":4109.96,"text":"不是生活津貼的關鍵"},{"start":4109.96,"end":4111.96,"text":"難道全民都需要生活津貼嗎"},{"start":4111.96,"end":4113.96,"text":"老實說成本不會很大"},{"start":4113.96,"end":4114.96,"text":"行政成本不大"},{"start":4114.96,"end":4116.96,"text":"一年生9萬人"},{"start":4116.96,"end":4117.96,"text":"行政成本怎麼可能會大"},{"start":4117.96,"end":4118.96,"text":"如果行政成本變大"},{"start":4118.96,"end":4120.96,"text":"才是大家需要開心的事情"},{"start":4120.96,"end":4122.96,"text":"我等一下再補充說明 謝謝"},{"start":4122.96,"end":4124.96,"text":"好 謝謝陳經緯的發言"},{"start":4124.96,"end":4126.96,"text":"各黨團幹部我們現在"},{"start":4126.96,"end":4128.96,"text":"已經溝通將近花了一個小時了"},{"start":4130.37,"end":4130.87,"text":"好吧"},{"start":4131.28,"end":4133.28,"text":"謝謝非黨團幹部"},{"start":4133.46,"end":4136.46,"text":"洪宇祥委員還有劉樹斌委員陳經緯委員"},{"start":4136.46,"end":4138.46,"text":"林月琴委員郭國文委員都一起來參與"},{"start":4138.46,"end":4140.46,"text":"大家都非常關心"},{"start":4140.46,"end":4142.46,"text":"副官級總統請發言"},{"start":4142.67,"end":4143.67,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":4144.55,"end":4147.55,"text":"那謝謝今天民眾黨民進黨"},{"start":4147.55,"end":4150.55,"text":"還有這個二位副部大家對"},{"start":4150.55,"end":4152.55,"text":"國家掃尺花的問題"},{"start":4152.55,"end":4155.55,"text":"都提出了相關的高見跟看法"},{"start":4155.55,"end":4158.55,"text":"我想國民黨的立場非常清楚"},{"start":4158.55,"end":4160.55,"text":"對於我們現在掃尺花的問題"},{"start":4160.55,"end":4162.55,"text":"如果我們國家再不拿出一套"},{"start":4162.55,"end":4164.55,"text":"完整的辦法出來"},{"start":4165.61,"end":4167.61,"text":"如果掃尺花越來越嚴重"},{"start":4167.61,"end":4170.61,"text":"不只是國安危機大家朗朗上口"},{"start":4170.61,"end":4172.61,"text":"但是真的有沒有想過"},{"start":4173.15,"end":4176.15,"text":"這未來這個危機是非常非常嚴重"},{"start":4176.76,"end":4179.76,"text":"當我們是一個倒三角形的"},{"start":4179.76,"end":4182.76,"text":"這樣的一個人口結構的話"},{"start":4182.76,"end":4188.76,"text":"未來我們的孩子要背負多麼沉重的家庭負擔"},{"start":4190.14,"end":4193.14,"text":"整個國家的生產力還有經濟發展"},{"start":4193.14,"end":4195.14,"text":"都會受到嚴重的重創"},{"start":4195.14,"end":4197.14,"text":"所以我想各個國家都在對於"},{"start":4197.14,"end":4199.14,"text":"掃尺花的問題"},{"start":4199.14,"end":4201.14,"text":"要提出相關解決的辦法"},{"start":4201.14,"end":4203.14,"text":"而且今天不做明天就會後悔"},{"start":4204.39,"end":4207.39,"text":"而且對於今天貧富差距"},{"start":4207.39,"end":4209.39,"text":"越來越嚴重的情況之下"},{"start":4209.39,"end":4212.39,"text":"我們要給年輕人有適當的一個鼓勵"},{"start":4212.39,"end":4215.39,"text":"不只要他們能夠成家"},{"start":4215.39,"end":4217.39,"text":"而且要勇敢的生小孩"},{"start":4217.39,"end":4219.39,"text":"所以我想我們在今年2月份"},{"start":4219.39,"end":4221.39,"text":"國民黨跟民眾黨"},{"start":4221.39,"end":4225.39,"text":"兩黨主席就已經召集兩黨的立法委員"},{"start":4225.39,"end":4227.39,"text":"提出了國家未來"},{"start":4227.39,"end":4230.39,"text":"這個國家未來帳戶的"},{"start":4230.39,"end":4233.39,"text":"這個因應掃尺花問題所提出的"},{"start":4233.39,"end":4235.39,"text":"台灣未來帳戶"},{"start":4235.77,"end":4238.77,"text":"那我在這裡要特別希望呢"},{"start":4238.77,"end":4240.77,"text":"大家同理心來看這個法案"},{"start":4241.36,"end":4243.36,"text":"這不是一個政治攻防"},{"start":4243.99,"end":4245.99,"text":"所以不管是"},{"start":4247.28,"end":4248.28,"text":"啊"},{"start":4248.92,"end":4252.92,"text":"國民黨、民眾黨還是賴清德總統所提出的版本"},{"start":4254.44,"end":4256.44,"text":"它都有一樣的"},{"start":4256.73,"end":4258.73,"text":"財政支出"},{"start":4259.06,"end":4262.06,"text":"都有相對的行政成本"},{"start":4262.06,"end":4265.06,"text":"所以沒有什麼財政紀律不合什麼等等"},{"start":4265.98,"end":4268.98,"text":"尤其在我們2月份提出之後"},{"start":4268.98,"end":4271.98,"text":"賴清德總統在5月9日就職的"},{"start":4271.98,"end":4273.98,"text":"就職兩週年的時候宣布"},{"start":4273.98,"end":4276.98,"text":"幾乎國民黨、民眾黨所有的"},{"start":4278.03,"end":4280.03,"text":"法案的提案內容啊"},{"start":4280.16,"end":4282.16,"text":"我想賴總統都採用了"},{"start":4282.57,"end":4284.57,"text":"所以既然是這樣子"},{"start":4284.57,"end":4287.57,"text":"大家有共同的共識"},{"start":4287.57,"end":4289.57,"text":"就是國家的問題"},{"start":4289.57,"end":4291.57,"text":"掃尺花問題一定要解決"},{"start":4291.65,"end":4292.65,"text":"好"},{"start":4292.68,"end":4296.68,"text":"那我想經過完整的國會"},{"start":4296.68,"end":4298.68,"text":"經由立法的程序"},{"start":4298.68,"end":4301.68,"text":"來完成這個福國利民的條例"},{"start":4301.68,"end":4304.68,"text":"不只有完整的正當性"},{"start":4304.68,"end":4308.68,"text":"更有全國最高民意機關正式的同意"},{"start":4308.68,"end":4310.68,"text":"我想這程序才是完成"},{"start":4310.68,"end":4313.68,"text":"而不是用一個行政命令"},{"start":4314.48,"end":4316.48,"text":"做一個這麼重大的支出"},{"start":4316.48,"end":4320.48,"text":"而沒有經過國會的相關的立法"},{"start":4320.48,"end":4325.48,"text":"來讓它的司法性能夠更加的完整"},{"start":4326.9,"end":4328.9,"text":"我們在這裡要特別強調"},{"start":4329.35,"end":4331.35,"text":"這個全世界的AI大爆發"},{"start":4331.35,"end":4333.35,"text":"台灣也因為有台積電"},{"start":4333.5,"end":4337.5,"text":"整個國家經濟全面的重大成長"},{"start":4337.5,"end":4339.5,"text":"今年預計超出了"},{"start":4339.52,"end":4341.52,"text":"這個稅收啊國家"},{"start":4341.53,"end":4344.53,"text":"今年預計超出稅收可能超過一兆台幣以上"},{"start":4344.89,"end":4346.89,"text":"所以我想對於這樣的一個"},{"start":4346.89,"end":4349.89,"text":"福國利民合法合規的條例的推動"},{"start":4349.89,"end":4352.89,"text":"我想各黨也放下各種成見"},{"start":4352.89,"end":4355.89,"text":"應該我們全力來支持"},{"start":4355.89,"end":4358.89,"text":"至於條文的內容"},{"start":4358.89,"end":4362.89,"text":"我想剛剛大家不斷在鑽研這所謂20萬"},{"start":4362.89,"end":4364.89,"text":"是不是啊"},{"start":4365.09,"end":4367.09,"text":"這個家長要存款"},{"start":4367.13,"end":4369.13,"text":"我這裡要回到大家的盲點"},{"start":4370.27,"end":4372.27,"text":"其實要開戶"},{"start":4372.46,"end":4376.46,"text":"不只是這個台灣未來的帳戶"},{"start":4377.05,"end":4379.05,"text":"為孩子開戶"},{"start":4379.05,"end":4381.05,"text":"也可以不只開一個戶頭"},{"start":4380.75,"end":4382.75,"text":"那至於錢要存哪裡"},{"start":4382.77,"end":4385.77,"text":"我想我們國民黨並沒有這麼concern"},{"start":4385.77,"end":4389.77,"text":"今天但是這個國家未來帳戶這個戶頭"},{"start":4389.77,"end":4391.77,"text":"是國家要撥款進來"},{"start":4391.77,"end":4393.77,"text":"還有一個很重要的就是"},{"start":4394.38,"end":4396.38,"text":"當我們國內很多的企業"},{"start":4396.83,"end":4398.83,"text":"要捐助的時候"},{"start":4399.26,"end":4401.26,"text":"可以捐給國家"},{"start":4401.26,"end":4402.26,"text":"它可以指定"},{"start":4402.82,"end":4405.82,"text":"給國家未來帳戶裡面的中低收入戶的孩子"},{"start":4405.82,"end":4406.82,"text":"可以來分這些"},{"start":4406.82,"end":4410.82,"text":"或者是他這個可以給全體的"},{"start":4410.82,"end":4412.82,"text":"台灣的孩子都可以捐"},{"start":4412.82,"end":4415.82,"text":"我想這也是一個鼓勵的性質"},{"start":4415.82,"end":4418.82,"text":"那至於父母要不要來存款"},{"start":4418.82,"end":4421.82,"text":"我想這也是相對的一個鼓勵的性質"},{"start":4421.82,"end":4424.82,"text":"我們並不反對但也不堅持"},{"start":4424.82,"end":4427.82,"text":"我想所以針對這個帳戶內容的部分"},{"start":4427.82,"end":4430.82,"text":"我想他的利益的原意"},{"start":4430.82,"end":4432.82,"text":"我們三個黨態度都是一致的"},{"start":4432.82,"end":4433.82,"text":"那至於啊"},{"start":4433.82,"end":4436.82,"text":"這個是不是要20萬這些相對的這些"},{"start":4436.82,"end":4439.82,"text":"我們想廣大大家的意見我們都可以接受"},{"start":4439.82,"end":4442.82,"text":"好謝謝傅崑琦總召的發言"},{"start":4442.82,"end":4445.82,"text":"接下來我們又加入了一位非黨團的洪孟凱委員"},{"start":4445.82,"end":4448.82,"text":"也加入了我們的討論的陣營"},{"start":4448.82,"end":4450.82,"text":"那我想我們先休息一下"},{"start":4450.82,"end":4452.82,"text":"大家開始進入條文了好嗎"},{"start":4452.82,"end":4453.82,"text":"我們休息一下"},{"start":4453.82,"end":4454.82,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4715.06,"end":4718.06,"text":"謝謝各黨團幹部也謝謝各位練習的官員"},{"start":4718.06,"end":4719.06,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4720.76,"end":4724.76,"text":"現在我們請衛福部的石部長發言完畢之後"},{"start":4724.76,"end":4726.76,"text":"各黨團幹部在發言完畢之後"},{"start":4726.76,"end":4728.76,"text":"主席將要進行宣告"},{"start":4728.76,"end":4730.76,"text":"麻煩請石部長請"},{"start":4730.76,"end":4732.76,"text":"謝謝韓院長還有各位委員"},{"start":4732.76,"end":4736.76,"text":"那我想在進入最後待會的討論之前"},{"start":4736.76,"end":4738.76,"text":"也先報告一下"},{"start":4738.76,"end":4741.76,"text":"這個個人兒少的投資帳戶"},{"start":4741.76,"end":4743.76,"text":"在大家剛剛有提到過去"},{"start":4743.76,"end":4745.76,"text":"英國有曾經實施的先例"},{"start":4745.76,"end":4748.76,"text":"那他在2005年開始實施"},{"start":4748.76,"end":4750.76,"text":"但是在2011年終止"},{"start":4750.76,"end":4753.76,"text":"因為在他事辦的這六年當中"},{"start":4753.76,"end":4755.76,"text":"發現了幾個問題"},{"start":4755.76,"end":4756.76,"text":"第一個"},{"start":4756.76,"end":4759.76,"text":"因為每個家庭的儲蓄能力的不同"},{"start":4759.76,"end":4763.76,"text":"所以儲蓄率是越高所得者越多"},{"start":4763.76,"end":4766.76,"text":"越低所得者那麼幾乎是沒有"},{"start":4766.76,"end":4769.76,"text":"那麼第二個是有資訊落差"},{"start":4769.76,"end":4772.76,"text":"所以在投資的能力上面是不同的"},{"start":4772.76,"end":4774.76,"text":"所以整個實施下來"},{"start":4774.76,"end":4777.76,"text":"整個實施下來造成的就是"},{"start":4777.76,"end":4780.76,"text":"貧富之間的差距擴大"},{"start":4780.76,"end":4782.76,"text":"那如果按照我們現在"},{"start":4782.76,"end":4785.76,"text":"這個國民黨團民眾黨團提案的設計"},{"start":4785.76,"end":4788.76,"text":"未來那貧富差距可能會拉到"},{"start":4788.76,"end":4791.76,"text":"到十倍左右的收入的不同"},{"start":4791.76,"end":4794.76,"text":"最後領到的那個錢會有十倍的差距"},{"start":4794.76,"end":4796.76,"text":"那因此我們還是建議"},{"start":4796.76,"end":4798.76,"text":"如果真的要入法"},{"start":4798.76,"end":4801.76,"text":"那麼希望能夠參照現在行政院的設計"},{"start":4801.76,"end":4804.76,"text":"它是以一個共同帳戶的方式"},{"start":4804.76,"end":4808.76,"text":"由全民來共享這樣的經濟成長的結果"},{"start":4808.76,"end":4811.76,"text":"而不是個別帳戶之間的差異"},{"start":4811.76,"end":4813.76,"text":"也就是不要有這個提撥"},{"start":4813.76,"end":4815.76,"text":"個人提撥的概念"},{"start":4815.76,"end":4817.76,"text":"而由政府提撥進來之後"},{"start":4817.76,"end":4819.76,"text":"那麼整體操作"},{"start":4819.76,"end":4823.76,"text":"依照你的這個最後18歲的時候"},{"start":4823.76,"end":4827.76,"text":"當時候這一個基金的獲益"},{"start":4827.76,"end":4829.76,"text":"大家均等的分配"},{"start":4829.76,"end":4831.76,"text":"而不會有差異性"},{"start":4831.76,"end":4833.76,"text":"那麼對於這個整個"},{"start":4833.76,"end":4835.76,"text":"兒少的幫忙"},{"start":4835.76,"end":4837.76,"text":"那麼是平等的"},{"start":4837.76,"end":4839.76,"text":"所以我想這個是我們的"},{"start":4839.76,"end":4841.76,"text":"再一次的補充"},{"start":4841.76,"end":4843.76,"text":"給各位委員來參考"},{"start":4843.76,"end":4845.76,"text":"以上"},{"start":4844.98,"end":4845.98,"text":"謝謝石部長"},{"start":4845.98,"end":4848.98,"text":"各位練習的單位主管主計"},{"start":4848.98,"end":4850.98,"text":"法務"},{"start":4850.98,"end":4852.98,"text":"還有"},{"start":4852.25,"end":4854.25,"text":"人事行政總局"},{"start":4854.39,"end":4856.39,"text":"還有其他的部會教育部"},{"start":4856.39,"end":4858.39,"text":"有沒有要補充意見"},{"start":4857.99,"end":4859.99,"text":"沒有的話我們黨團發言完"},{"start":4859.99,"end":4861.99,"text":"我們就進行處理了好嗎"},{"start":4861.99,"end":4863.99,"text":"好謝謝各位練習的官員"},{"start":4863.99,"end":4865.99,"text":"我們現在請哪一位黨團"},{"start":4865.99,"end":4867.99,"text":"要先發言台灣民眾黨團請發言"},{"start":4867.99,"end":4869.99,"text":"國民黨團請準備"},{"start":4869.99,"end":4871.99,"text":"主席還有各位同仁大家好"},{"start":4871.99,"end":4873.99,"text":"那我想"},{"start":4873.99,"end":4875.99,"text":"如果不喜歡這個制度"},{"start":4875.99,"end":4877.99,"text":"就是藉口一大堆理由一大堆"},{"start":4877.99,"end":4879.99,"text":"那剛剛郭國文這個委員提到說"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