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當年的四八萬"},{"start":3477.47,"end":3478.91,"text":"我沒有說尊重"},{"start":3479.68,"end":3481.72,"text":"因為這條路是我們中人借的"},{"start":3482.67,"end":3483.71,"text":"有這樣的事情嗎?"},{"start":3485.31,"end":3486.47,"text":"我們的無人載具"},{"start":3486.71,"end":3488.19,"text":"需要一個完整的戰力"},{"start":3489.62,"end":3490.8599999999997,"text":"他不是套地主啊"},{"start":3491.87,"end":3492.71,"text":"我剛剛說的"},{"start":3492.71,"end":3494.99,"text":"一棟透天處2100萬"},{"start":3495.39,"end":3496.91,"text":"災難說太少了啦"},{"start":3497.31,"end":3498.95,"text":"我給你六座小木屋"},{"start":3499.19,"end":3500.0699999999997,"text":"一座400萬"},{"start":3501.14,"end":3502.2599999999998,"text":"你要每年一座"},{"start":3502.54,"end":3503.94,"text":"400萬蓋個小木屋"},{"start":3504.2599999999998,"end":3505.3399999999997,"text":"還是要蓋一個"},{"start":3505.5,"end":3506.2999999999997,"text":"可以居住"},{"start":3506.58,"end":3507.94,"text":"真正長治久安的"},{"start":3507.94,"end":3508.54,"text":"透天處"},{"start":3509.15,"end":3510.35,"text":"我想一般鄉親啊"},{"start":3510.35,"end":3510.85,"text":"都說"},{"start":3510.9900000000002,"end":3512.55,"text":"當然要一個透天處啊"},{"start":3513.2,"end":3514.16,"text":"我怎麼說一年"},{"start":3514.16,"end":3515.52,"text":"你給我蓋一個小木屋"},{"start":3515.68,"end":3517,"text":"啊風太大 尷尬了"},{"start":3517.2799999999997,"end":3518.3199999999997,"text":"啊每年都電氣喔"},{"start":3519.82,"end":3521.82,"text":"不是兩千四百億比較多啊"},{"start":3522.26,"end":3523.5800000000004,"text":"那是假支票啦"},{"start":3525.23,"end":3525.77,"text":"好"},{"start":3526.48,"end":3527.96,"text":"那所以呢 我再一次說的"},{"start":3528.88,"end":3530.1200000000003,"text":"我們不是要"},{"start":3530.1200000000003,"end":3531.84,"text":"我們要的是一棟透天處"},{"start":3532.32,"end":3534.52,"text":"我們不要六座小木屋"},{"start":3535,"end":3535.6000000000004,"text":"更何況"},{"start":3535.6000000000004,"end":3536.44,"text":"如果把這個比喻"},{"start":3536.44,"end":3537.44,"text":"放在我們國防上"},{"start":3538.4,"end":3539.28,"text":"我們要一座"},{"start":3539.28,"end":3540.1600000000003,"text":"可以抵擋"},{"start":3540.1600000000003,"end":3541.56,"text":"敵人攻擊的碉堡"},{"start":3542.61,"end":3545.33,"text":"不是六座在沙灘上的野戰帳篷"},{"start":3546.77,"end":3547.69,"text":"國民黨的立委"},{"start":3547.69,"end":3549.09,"text":"剛剛講的天花亂墜"},{"start":3549.97,"end":3552.29,"text":"說什麼年度預算比較能夠把握"},{"start":3552.5699999999997,"end":3554.25,"text":"說什麼產業需要償單"},{"start":3554.25,"end":3554.97,"text":"沒有錯啊"},{"start":3555.41,"end":3556.73,"text":"你跟營造廠下個單"},{"start":3556.93,"end":3557.77,"text":"我兩千一百萬"},{"start":3557.77,"end":3558.77,"text":"給你蓋一個透天處"},{"start":3559.21,"end":3560.77,"text":"他就會去調工調料啊"},{"start":3561.31,"end":3563.11,"text":"你跟我說我一年給你四百萬"},{"start":3563.11,"end":3564.35,"text":"你給我蓋一個透天處"},{"start":3564.83,"end":3565.87,"text":"整隻去給你看"},{"start":3567.56,"end":3568.56,"text":"所以呢在這裡啊"},{"start":3568.56,"end":3569.4,"text":"我們希望啊"},{"start":3569.72,"end":3570.6,"text":"今天的預算"},{"start":3570.96,"end":3572.32,"text":"表今天的法案審查"},{"start":3572.32,"end":3572.96,"text":"很簡單"},{"start":3573.4,"end":3574.24,"text":"14個版本"},{"start":3574.91,"end":3575.75,"text":"用來區分"},{"start":3576.37,"end":3577.37,"text":"特別預算的"},{"start":3577.5699999999997,"end":3578.29,"text":"就是真的"},{"start":3579.34,"end":3580.34,"text":"年度預算的"},{"start":3580.6600000000003,"end":3581.5,"text":"沒有預算的"},{"start":3581.7000000000003,"end":3582.7000000000003,"text":"就是假的"},{"start":3583.33,"end":3585.13,"text":"所以呢賴委員先離開"},{"start":3585.13,"end":3586.29,"text":"我要恭喜賴委員"},{"start":3586.69,"end":3587.89,"text":"他的版本是真的"},{"start":3588.46,"end":3588.9,"text":"多謝"},{"start":3589.44,"end":3590.2200000000003,"text":"保託於"},{"start":3591.53,"end":3596.63,"text":"500億就是真實的國民黨現在唯一的版本"},{"start":3597.13,"end":3599.69,"text":"打算來回應整個社會國家"},{"start":3599.69,"end":3601.53,"text":"我們自我防衛的需求"},{"start":3601.53,"end":3603.79,"text":"要給國防部採購無人載具"},{"start":3603.79,"end":3604.79,"text":"500億"},{"start":3606.97,"end":3609.2099999999996,"text":"這不是砍五毛給一塊"},{"start":3609.77,"end":3611.61,"text":"這是要五塊給一毛啊"},{"start":3612.47,"end":3614.91,"text":"我們要2100億來建立國防"},{"start":3614.91,"end":3618.2099999999996,"text":"他說我給你500億的特別預算"},{"start":3619.24,"end":3620,"text":"品化賣了"},{"start":3620.54,"end":3622.58,"text":"所以這裡我們要跟說"},{"start":3625.45,"end":3628.25,"text":"六棟小木屋"},{"start":3628.96,"end":3631.32,"text":"換不到一座透天處啦"},{"start":3632.39,"end":3634.19,"text":"六座小木屋"},{"start":3634.19,"end":3635.35,"text":"換不到一座"},{"start":3635.9,"end":3636.8,"text":"透天處"},{"start":3639.04,"end":3640.34,"text":"我們很清楚"},{"start":3640.34,"end":3641.64,"text":"本席的版本"},{"start":3641.64,"end":3644.94,"text":"也是以行政院的2100億去設算"},{"start":3645.87,"end":3646.87,"text":"當然"},{"start":3646.87,"end":3648.77,"text":"賴世保委員他有兩套法案"},{"start":3649.33,"end":3650.93,"text":"他說這兩套他剛剛自己講"},{"start":3650.93,"end":3652.0299999999997,"text":"我說你要不要講兩次"},{"start":3652.0299999999997,"end":3652.87,"text":"他說不是"},{"start":3652.87,"end":3653.59,"text":"不用"},{"start":3653.59,"end":3654.79,"text":"這兩個併在一起"},{"start":3654.79,"end":3655.99,"text":"其實就是一個"},{"start":3655.99,"end":3657.17,"text":"如果要這樣的話"},{"start":3657.17,"end":3658.59,"text":"就用本席的版本"},{"start":3658.59,"end":3663.19,"text":"本席版本就是有行政院2100萬的預算"},{"start":3663.19,"end":3664.19,"text":"特別預算額度"},{"start":3664.67,"end":3666.9700000000003,"text":"但是也有賴世保委員裡面"},{"start":3666.9700000000003,"end":3668.13,"text":"他裡面寫什麼"},{"start":3668.13,"end":3671.03,"text":"他說無人載具產業要升級條例"},{"start":3671.69,"end":3672.9500000000003,"text":"本席的版本"},{"start":3672.9500000000003,"end":3674.05,"text":"就把"},{"start":3674.05,"end":3677.19,"text":"無人載具未來這個產業要創建"},{"start":3677.19,"end":3678.85,"text":"他所需要的法規"},{"start":3678.85,"end":3680.89,"text":"需要解套的行政命令"},{"start":3680.89,"end":3683.69,"text":"通通都放在同一個版本"},{"start":3683.69,"end":3685.69,"text":"如果賴委員待會再回來"},{"start":3685.69,"end":3687.79,"text":"我還是會跟他爭取"},{"start":3687.79,"end":3689.39,"text":"他的兩個版本"},{"start":3689.39,"end":3691.29,"text":"一個是特別預算500億"},{"start":3691.29,"end":3693.25,"text":"一個是產業升級條例"},{"start":3693.25,"end":3695.69,"text":"如果他覺得是一槓的同一件事情"},{"start":3695.69,"end":3697.85,"text":"那請他來支持本席的版本"},{"start":3697.85,"end":3700.9500000000003,"text":"本席的版本有2100億的特別預算"},{"start":3700.95,"end":3702.1099999999997,"text":"比他的多"},{"start":3702.1099999999997,"end":3703.21,"text":"符合國防部"},{"start":3703.21,"end":3705.35,"text":"我們國家自主防衛的需求"},{"start":3705.35,"end":3707.6099999999997,"text":"然後產業升級的部分我也有"},{"start":3707.6099999999997,"end":3709.6099999999997,"text":"內容應該不亞於他的"},{"start":3710.2,"end":3711.5,"text":"那至於其他的版本"},{"start":3711.5,"end":3713.2999999999997,"text":"因為我們是做提案說明"},{"start":3713.2999999999997,"end"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tart":3926.81,"end":3928.81,"text":"這些都是台灣"},{"start":3928.81,"end":3931.81,"text":"鼎鼎永鳴世界隱形冠軍的傳統產業"},{"start":3931.81,"end":3932.81,"text":"都在哪裡"},{"start":3933.67,"end":3935.67,"text":"中部南部比比皆是"},{"start":3935.67,"end":3936.67,"text":"彰化有"},{"start":3936.67,"end":3937.67,"text":"不是只有台中有"},{"start":3937.67,"end":3938.67,"text":"高雄有"},{"start":3938.67,"end":3939.67,"text":"其實屏東也有"},{"start":3940.61,"end":3942.61,"text":"這些傳統產業"},{"start":3942.61,"end":3944.61,"text":"這是看準了這次的商機"},{"start":3944.61,"end":3946.61,"text":"都準備大顯身手"},{"start":3947.9,"end":3949.9,"text":"為什麼以前我們既然有這麼好的優勢"},{"start":3949.9,"end":3951.9,"text":"為什麼拼不過大疆"},{"start":3952.73,"end":3954.73,"text":"大疆便宜啊"},{"start":3954.99,"end":3956.99,"text":"人家一萬塊的東西我們要做三萬塊啊"},{"start":3957.99,"end":3959.99,"text":"世界市場"},{"start":3959.42,"end":3961.42,"text":"商用的市場"},{"start":3962.02,"end":3963.02,"text":"民用的市場"},{"start":3963.02,"end":3965.02,"text":"它當然價格取向"},{"start":3964.99,"end":3966.99,"text":"但是現在如果要面對"},{"start":3967.74,"end":3969.74,"text":"武力的威脅"},{"start":3969.74,"end":3973.74,"text":"我們不可能去買一個中國大疆一萬塊的無人機來改裝"},{"start":3974.65,"end":3976.65,"text":"我們包括其他的民主同盟"},{"start":3976.65,"end":3977.65,"text":"為了抵抗"},{"start":3977.65,"end":3979.65,"text":"邪惡野心軸心的對抗"},{"start":3980.45,"end":3981.45,"text":"包括伊朗"},{"start":3981.68,"end":3982.68,"text":"我們會用什麼"},{"start":3982.68,"end":3983.68,"text":"我們寧可花三萬塊"},{"start":3984.42,"end":3985.42,"text":"跟台灣買"},{"start":3986.02,"end":3987.02,"text":"上面的晶片"},{"start":3987.74,"end":3989.74,"text":"是有國際合作認證"},{"start":3991.2,"end":3992.2,"text":"不管是不"},{"start":3993.17,"end":3995.17,"text":"U.S."},{"start":3994.17,"end":3995.17,"text":"還是"},{"start":3996.06,"end":3997.06,"text":"至少呢"},{"start":3997.44,"end":3999.44,"text":"是一個可信賴的晶片"},{"start":4000.13,"end":4004.13,"text":"台灣現在正站在一個未來無人載具"},{"start":4004.13,"end":4006.13,"text":"要正幣高飛的一個產業時代"},{"start":4007.27,"end":4009.27,"text":"我們有先進的晶片的製造能力"},{"start":4009.27,"end":4012.27,"text":"我們有去紅供應鏈的安全保證"},{"start":4012.27,"end":4015.27,"text":"我們有傳統產業各項"},{"start":4015.97,"end":4017.97,"text":"機器設備的支持"},{"start":4018.81,"end":4020.81,"text":"現在全世界在等著"},{"start":4020.81,"end":4022.81,"text":"跟台灣下單"},{"start":4023.13,"end":4030.13,"text":"但是未來台灣是只能夠當國外整機的零組件供應商"},{"start":4030.13,"end":4033.13,"text":"還是台灣有能力自主"},{"start":4033.13,"end":4036.13,"text":"生產整機整座的無人載具系統"},{"start":4037.42,"end":4040.42,"text":"今天的法案審查至關重要"},{"start":4041.89,"end":4042.89,"text":"本席再過去"},{"start":4043.38,"end":4045.38,"text":"從2017年參與了民用航空法"},{"start":4045.38,"end":4048.38,"text":"遙控無人機專章的修法以來"},{"start":4049.03,"end":4050.03,"text":"我們就很清楚"},{"start":4050.6,"end":4053.6,"text":"現在已經不是2017 2018"},{"start":4053.6,"end":4055.6,"text":"空拍機濃噴機的時代"},{"start":4056.27,"end":4063.27,"text":"現在的無人載具背負的是面對強大武力威脅的其他民主國家"},{"start":4063.27,"end":4066.27,"text":"我們必須透過無人載具來構築我們"},{"start":4066.85,"end":4068.85,"text":"的金鐘罩鐵布山的防禦網"},{"start":4069.65,"end":4073.65,"text":"而無人載具剛好就是台灣的優勢所在"},{"start":4074.14,"end":4077.14,"text":"如果李喜明將軍出了一本叫台灣的勝算"},{"start":4077.14,"end":4080.14,"text":"我們應該說無人載具就是台灣的優勢"},{"start":4081.43,"end":4083.43,"text":"所以剛剛有委員提到"},{"start":4084.15,"end":4087.15,"text":"2030年編了2100億的特別預算"},{"start":4087.67,"end":4093.67,"text":"國防部中科院會不會浪子虛職浪費舞弊"},{"start":4094.31,"end":4096.3099999999995,"text":"我認為美國的經驗值得參考"},{"start":4097.33,"end":4102.33,"text":"美國的無人機優勢計畫已經發展出應付快速迭代的採購方式"},{"start":4102.33,"end":4105.33,"text":"不會是一次批量的全部買齊"},{"start":4105.33,"end":4108.33,"text":"而是在這樣的一個預算架構之下"},{"start":4108.33,"end":4110.33,"text":"逐步的太玄廠商"},{"start":4111.16,"end":4113.16,"text":"給予優秀的廠商"},{"start":4113.78,"end":4115.78,"text":"獲選的廠商更大的訂單"},{"start":4115.78,"end":4121.78,"text":"讓他能將最新的技術供應給我們第一線保衛國家安全的官兵手上"},{"start":4123.62,"end":4125.62,"text":"無人載具甚至在烏克蘭"},{"start":4126.54,"end":4128.54,"text":"第一線的作戰官兵甚至可以得到點數"},{"start":4129.58,"end":4131.58,"text":"他們可以都會小額的方式自行"},{"start":4132.44,"end":4134.44,"text":"向無人機的製造商下單"},{"start":4134.86,"end":4136.86,"text":"然後他們如果有擊殺成功"},{"start":4136.86,"end":4138.86,"text":"獲得的點數"},{"start":4138.86,"end":4140.86,"text":"就可以換得新購無人機的預算"},{"start":4142.37,"end":4144.37,"text":"這個才是厲害啊"},{"start":4144.86,"end":4146.86,"text":"烏克蘭在實際戰爭當中"},{"start":4146.86,"end":4148.86,"text":"讓第一線的官兵"},{"start":4148.86,"end":4150.86,"text":"使用無人機擊殺二軍的官兵"},{"start":4150.86,"end":4155.86,"text":"用他們自己買來跟民間採購的各式各樣創新的無人載具"},{"start":4156.63,"end":4158.63,"text":"去抵抗俄羅斯的侵略"},{"start":4159.46,"end":4161.46,"text":"成功的就點數"},{"start":4161.46,"end":4163.46,"text":"點數多的還可以獲配"},{"start":4163.87,"end":4165.87,"text":"國防部配給他"},{"start":4165.87,"end":4167.87,"text":"更多額的預算"},{"start":4167.87,"end":4169.87,"text":"那麼他的供應商也就能夠"},{"start":4169.87,"end":4171.87,"text":"持續的研發更好的無人載具"},{"start":4171.87,"end":4173.87,"text":"給烏軍使用"},{"start":4174.4,"end":4176.4,"text":"這些例子也要請"},{"start":4176.4,"end":4178.4,"text":"那些口口聲聲說"},{"start":4178.4,"end":4180.4,"text":"要"},{"start":4179.31,"end":4181.31,"text":"每年400億"},{"start":4181.31,"end":4183.31,"text":"65年年度預算"},{"start":4183.31,"end":4185.31,"text":"開這種假支票的在野黨的版本"},{"start":4185.31,"end":4187.31,"text":"好好地回去研究一下"},{"start":4187.31,"end":4189.31,"text":"烏克蘭怎麼做的"},{"start":4189.31,"end":4191.31,"text":"台灣未來不需要付出"},{"start":4191.31,"end":4193.31,"text":"這樣實際戰爭慘痛的犧牲教訓"},{"start":4193.31,"end":4195.31,"text":"我們可以學習"},{"start":4195.02,"end":4197.02,"text":"美國怎麼做的"},{"start":4197.02,"end":4199.02,"text":"美國的英國快速迭代的優勢計畫"},{"start":4199.02,"end":4201.02,"text":"我們可以參考"},{"start":4201.02,"end":4203.02,"text":"但是我們的前線官兵"},{"start":4203.02,"end":4205.02,"text":"我們的國軍需要真正的採購"},{"start":4205.02,"end":4207.02,"text":"不要假支票"},{"start":4207.54,"end":4209.54,"text":"我要真採購"},{"start":4209.5,"end":4211.5,"text":"不要假支票"},{"start":4211.5,"end":4213.5,"text":"也希望未來的召委"},{"start":4213.5,"end":4215.5,"text":"接下來召委主席的時候"},{"start":4215.5,"end":4217.5,"text":"可以把727828"},{"start":4217.5,"end":4219.5,"text":"這兩個魔術數字"},{"start":4219.5,"end":4221.5,"text":"從你的心中抹掉"},{"start":4221.5,"end":4223.5,"text":"那個換不到任何"},{"start":4223.5,"end":4225.5,"text":"民間人士"},{"start":4225.5,"end":4227.5,"text":"專業社團"},{"start":4227.5,"end":4229.5,"text":"對本委員會審查法案品質的尊重"},{"start":4229.5,"end":4231.5,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4231.72,"end":4233.72,"text":"謝謝中嘉兵"},{"start":4233.61,"end":4235.61,"text":"發言"},{"start":4236.8,"end":4238.8,"text":"本人沒有什麼"},{"start":4238.8,"end":4240.8,"text":"本都是獨立個體"},{"start":4240.85,"end":4242.85,"text":"認識我的人大概知道"},{"start":4242.85,"end":4244.85,"text":"我都是很自主的"},{"start":4244.85,"end":4246.85,"text":"沒有受人控制"},{"start":4246.3,"end":4248.3,"text":"我只有中華民國的護照"},{"start":4249.3,"end":4251.3,"text":"我2000年1999年在丹麥外傷"},{"start":4251.3,"end":4253.3,"text":"我去過的國家"},{"start":4254.52,"end":4256.52,"text":"不是啊"},{"start":4255.63,"end":4257.63,"text":"也沒有任何需要靠美國的"},{"start":4258.62,"end":4260.62,"text":"所以這個請你放心"},{"start":4262.13,"end":4264.13,"text":"好"},{"start":4262.97,"end":4264.97,"text":"來自產業我就回產業而已"},{"start":4264.97,"end":4266.97,"text":"產業的世界"},{"start":4266.97,"end":4268.97,"text":"是不受這些的"},{"start":4268.97,"end":4270.97,"text":"只要你有實力都可以的"},{"start":4270.9,"end":4272.9,"text":"接下來"},{"start":4272.86,"end":4274.86,"text":"我們請賴瑞榮委員做提案說明"},{"start":4282.25,"end":4284.25,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4284.25,"end":4286.25,"text":"今天我們來審查國防自主"},{"start":4286.25,"end":4288.25,"text":"無人載具的採購特別條例"},{"start":4288.25,"end":4290.25,"text":"那我們也要再次的"},{"start":4290.25,"end":4292.25,"text":"強調從二戰爭"},{"start":4292.25,"end":4294.25,"text":"跟進行的中東戰爭都看得出來"},{"start":4294.25,"end":4296.25,"text":"無人機"},{"start":4296.25,"end":4298.25,"text":"無人載具扮演重要的一個功能"},{"start":4298.25,"end":4300.25,"text":"它對於不對稱的戰力"},{"start":4300.25,"end":4302.25,"text":"非常的重要"},{"start":4302.25,"end":4304.25,"text":"那這關乎到台灣的"},{"start":4304.25,"end":4306.25,"text":"國家安全也關乎到台灣的產業"},{"start":4306.25,"end":4308.25,"text":"發展"},{"start":4308.25,"end":4310.25,"text":"而從這幾年來台灣的無人載具"},{"start":4310.25,"end":4312.25,"text":"也大幅的成長的空間"},{"start":4312.25,"end":4314.25,"text":"那這時候如果能夠透過"},{"start":4314.25,"end":4316.25,"text":"政府用一筆的預算支持"},{"start":4316.25,"end":4318.25,"text":"而且透過國防部的"},{"start":4318.25,"end":4320.25,"text":"整個採購的訂單的話"},{"start":4320.25,"end":4322.25,"text":"它不僅能夠強化我們國防的戰力"},{"start":4322.25,"end":4324.25,"text":"嚇阻任何敵對勢力"},{"start":4324.25,"end":4326.25,"text":"小對台灣的一個威脅"},{"start":4326.25,"end":4328.25,"text":"同時間也能夠"},{"start":4328.25,"end":4330.25,"text":"讓台灣的本土的產業"},{"start":4330.25,"end":4332.25,"text":"有那個機會升級的一個機會"},{"start":4332.25,"end":4334.25,"text":"同時因為有訂單穩定的訂單"},{"start":4334.25,"end":4336.25,"text":"而能夠讓我們的產業"},{"start":4336.25,"end":4338.25,"text":"更穩健的發展"},{"start":4338.25,"end":4340.25,"text":"那這次我們也要求"},{"start":4340.25,"end":4342.25,"text":"台北市政府"},{"start":4342.25,"end":4344.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4344.25,"end":4346.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4346.25,"end":4348.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4348.25,"end":4350.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4350.25,"end":4352.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4352.25,"end":4354.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4354.25,"end":4356.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4356.25,"end":4358.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4358.25,"end":4360.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4360.25,"end":4362.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4362.25,"end":4364.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4364.25,"end":4366.25,"text":"也要求台北市政府"},{"start":4366.25,"end":4368.25,"text":"而且我們也認為應該一次"},{"start":4368.25,"end":4370.25,"text":"透過特別預算的方式"},{"start":4370.25,"end":4372.25,"text":"一次編組讓我們"},{"start":4372.25,"end":4374.25,"text":"用最快的時間"},{"start":4374.25,"end":4376.25,"text":"能夠取得無人機無人艇"},{"start":4376.25,"end":4378.25,"text":"這樣子讓台灣"},{"start":4378.25,"end":4380.25,"text":"用最短的時間得到"},{"start":4380.25,"end":4382.25,"text":"最強的一個戰力"},{"start":4382.25,"end":4384.25,"text":"嚇阻敵軍任何有侵略台灣的"},{"start":4384.25,"end":4386.25,"text":"一個意圖我想從"},{"start":4386.25,"end":4388.25,"text":"過去不管是二戰爭"},{"start":4388.25,"end":4390.25,"text":"中東戰爭都看出來無人機"},{"start":4390.25,"end":4392.25,"text":"扮演了非常多以小及大"},{"start":4392.25,"end":4394.25,"text":"成功的案例同時間"},{"start":4394.25,"end":4396.25,"text":"這也是關鍵不對稱戰力裡面"},{"start":4396.25,"end":4398.25,"text":"最好的一個案例"},{"start":4398.25,"end":4400.25,"text":"所以我們希望朝野能夠支持國防部"},{"start":4400.25,"end":4402.25,"text":"這個行政院這樣的一個版本"},{"start":4402.25,"end":4404.25,"text":"支持國防部"},{"start":4404.25,"end":4406.25,"text":"同時間這樣的大量的訂單"},{"start":4406.25,"end":4408.25,"text":"一次用特別預算來編組的時候"},{"start":4408.25,"end":4410.25,"text":"也能夠讓我們的業界"},{"start":4410.25,"end":4412.25,"text":"能夠用最短的時間"},{"start":4412.25,"end":4414.25,"text":"能夠提升我們整體產業的實力"},{"start":4414.25,"end":4416.25,"text":"那這也是在公聽會上面"},{"start":4416.25,"end":4418.25,"text":"業者們的心聲"},{"start":4418.25,"end":4420.25,"text":"也希望能夠一次編組"},{"start":4420.25,"end":4422.25,"text":"而不是一次一次編列"},{"start":4422.25,"end":4424.25,"text":"那我們都會擔心"},{"start":4424.25,"end":4426.25,"text":"大家也會擔心一次一次編列"},{"start":4426.25,"end":4428.25,"text":"到底下一次還有沒有預算充滿了不確定性"},{"start":4428.25,"end":4430.25,"text":"這個不僅"},{"start":4430.25,"end":4432.25,"text":"對於國防的"},{"start":4432.25,"end":4434.25,"text":"籌組這樣的無人載具"},{"start":4434.25,"end":4436.25,"text":"有影響同時間對我們的"},{"start":4436.25,"end":4438.25,"text":"產業也是不確定性"},{"start":4438.25,"end":4440.25,"text":"也不利於我們產業整體的佈局跟發展"},{"start":4440.25,"end":4442.25,"text":"那大家全世界"},{"start":4442.25,"end":4444.25,"text":"都在支持無人載具"},{"start":4444.25,"end":4446.25,"text":"的發展台灣更是"},{"start":4446.25,"end":4448.25,"text":"具有一些優勢的時候"},{"start":4448.25,"end":4450.25,"text":"那我們應該透過整個政府的力量"},{"start":4450.25,"end":4452.25,"text":"全力的來支持一次用"},{"start":4452.25,"end":4454.25,"text":"特別預算來編組"},{"start":4454.25,"end":4456.25,"text":"來支持國軍同時一次編組"},{"start":4456.25,"end":4458.25,"text":"來支持產業"},{"start":4458.25,"end":4460.25,"text":"那當然我們也再次的呼籲除了這些"},{"start":4460.25,"end":4462.25,"text":"無人機無人艇"},{"start":4462.25,"end":4464.25,"text":"之外另外也建議"},{"start":4464.25,"end":4466.25,"text":"要加列一些其他的項目"},{"start":4466.25,"end":4468.25,"text":"讓更多未來趨勢"},{"start":4468.25,"end":4470.25,"text":"上面發展的時候我們能夠"},{"start":4470.25,"end":4472.25,"text":"儘速的來補足進來"},{"start":4472.25,"end":4474.25,"text":"那未來這樣不對稱的戰力"},{"start":4474.25,"end":4476.25,"text":"我們需要更多的"},{"start":4476.25,"end":4478.25,"text":"我們的無人機無人艇"},{"start":4478.25,"end":4480.25,"text":"來支持我們的國軍"},{"start":4480.25,"end":4482.25,"text":"支持我們的產業"},{"start":4482.25,"end":4484.25,"text":"那也希望在審查的時候"},{"start":4484.25,"end":4486.25,"text":"能夠把這樣的其他的可能性"},{"start":4486.25,"end":4488.25,"text":"也納進來避免未來"},{"start":4488.25,"end":4490.25,"text":"持續性的做一些修法"},{"start":4490.25,"end":4492.25,"text":"那我們最後還是要再次強調"},{"start":4492.25,"end":4494.25,"text":"希望大家忠於國家"},{"start":4494.25,"end":4496.25,"text":"忠於人民"},{"start":4496.25,"end":4498.25,"text":"這個無人機無人艇無人載具"},{"start":4498.25,"end":4500.25,"tex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委員陳樹葉 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4681.78,"end":4683.78,"text":"委員林楚英 委員吳詩瑤"},{"start":4686.42,"end":4688.42,"text":"委員宗教兵等人提案"},{"start":4688.42,"end":4690.42,"text":"軍同行政院提案"},{"start":4690.42,"end":4692.42,"text":"委員賴瑞榮"},{"start":4691.45,"end":4693.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4693.45,"end":4695.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4695.45,"end":4697.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4697.45,"end":4699.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4699.45,"end":4701.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4701.45,"end":4703.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4703.45,"end":4705.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4705.45,"end":4707.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4707.45,"end":4709.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4709.45,"end":4711.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4711.45,"end":4713.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4713.45,"end":4715.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4715.45,"end":4717.45,"text":"委員林楚英 委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":4693.14,"end":4699.14,"text":"第三句 同時發展軍民兩用科技建立自主生產能力"},{"start":4699.14,"end":4701.14,"text":"打造飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":4701.14,"end":4703.14,"text":"提升嚇阻能力 發展民生經濟"},{"start":4703.14,"end":4705.14,"text":"確保國家安全"},{"start":4705.14,"end":4709.14,"text":"國人生命財產安全及國防自主能力"},{"start":4709.14,"end":4711.14,"text":"與同行政院提案"},{"start":4711.14,"end":4713.14,"text":"委員賴世寶等人提案第一條"},{"start":4713.14,"end":4717.14,"text":"面對國防安全情勢日益嚴峻及新型態戰爭趨勢"},{"start":4717.14,"end":4719.14,"text":"為強化我國情報監視"},{"start":4719.14,"end":4722.14,"text":"偵查與精準打擊之多層嚇阻能力"},{"start":4722.14,"end":4726.14,"text":"並結合美國及其他國家之先進戰略無人載具"},{"start":4726.14,"end":4729.14,"text":"服役技術移轉及工業合作"},{"start":4729.14,"end":4732.14,"text":"提升我國無人載具產業自主研發"},{"start":4732.14,"end":4737.14,"text":"產製及維修能量確保國家安全與國防自主能力"},{"start":4738.46,"end":4740.46,"text":"自主特制定本條例"},{"start":4740.46,"end":4742.46,"text":"委員賴世寶等人提案第一條"},{"start":4742.46,"end":4748.46,"text":"為促進我國無人載具產業技術自主產業升級及國際競爭力"},{"start":4748.46,"end":4751.46,"text":"推動無人機自動駕駛車輛無人水面"},{"start":4752.52,"end":4756.52,"text":"及水下載具及相關智慧載具之研發"},{"start":4756.52,"end":4763.52,"text":"製造與商業應用成為帶動經濟轉型資關建產業特制定本條例"},{"start":4764.03,"end":4766.03,"text":"委員李坤城等人提案"},{"start":4766.03,"end":4773.03,"text":"拒守面對境外對勢力威脅日益嚴峻及其新型態戰爭"},{"start":4773.36,"end":4775.36,"text":"趨勢與同行政院提案"},{"start":4775.36,"end":4777.36,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第一條"},{"start":4777.36,"end":4782.36,"text":"為因應國防安全威脅後時不對稱作戰能力與災防韌性"},{"start":4782.36,"end":4787.36,"text":"建構我國無人載具自主及安全可信賴之供應鏈"},{"start":4787.36,"end":4792.36,"text":"帶動居民通用技術及產業轉型發展特制定本條例"},{"start":4793.34,"end":4795.34,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第二條"},{"start":4795.34,"end":4798.34,"text":"無人載具產業發展依本條例之規定"},{"start":4798.34,"end":4802.34,"text":"本條例未規定者適用其他有關法律之規定"},{"start":4802.34,"end":4808.34,"text":"但其他法律規定較本條例更有利者適用最有利之法律"},{"start":4810.6,"end":4814.6,"text":"行政院提案第二條本條例之主管機關為國防部"},{"start":4814.6,"end":4817.6,"text":"國民黨提案第二條本條例之主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":4817.6,"end":4821.6,"text":"本條例所稱主辦機關為經濟部國防部"},{"start":4821.6,"end":4826.6,"text":"本條例涉及國防採購研發普助關鍵技術進口"},{"start":4826.6,"end":4830.6,"text":"資安審查及測試場域化設等事項"},{"start":4830.6,"end":4834.6,"text":"由主管機關會同國防部及有關機關共同辦理"},{"start":4834.6,"end":4839.6,"text":"民眾黨團提案第三條本條例之中央主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":4839.6,"end":4841.6,"text":"國防運用事項為國防部"},{"start":4841.6,"end":4844.6,"text":"地方主管機關為直轄縣市政府本條例及"},{"start":4844.6,"end":4847.6,"text":"飛航安全空域管理"},{"start":4847.6,"end":4850.6,"text":"資通安全頻率使用政府採購"},{"start":4850.6,"end":4854.6,"text":"警政消防防災農業海巡環境"},{"start":4854.93,"end":4859.93,"text":"關鍵基礎設施地方場域或其他目的事業事項"},{"start":4859.93,"end":4863.93,"text":"由中央各目的事業主管機關一權責辦理"},{"start":4863.93,"end":4869.93,"text":"委員林楚英委員陳樹月委員蔡玉宇委員林一景委員吳思瑤委員賴瑞榮"},{"start":4869.93,"end":4872.93,"text":"委員李坤城委員鍾嘉斌等人提案"},{"start":4874.1,"end":4877.1,"text":"同行政院提案委員賴世寶等人提案第二條"},{"start":4877.1,"end":4883.1,"text":"除第二項本條例所技術移轉工業合作及產業升級事項"},{"start":4883.1,"end":4885.1,"text":"由國防部會同經濟部辦理"},{"start":4885.1,"end":4888.1,"text":"並得邀及國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":4888.1,"end":4893.1,"text":"國家中山科學研究院及相關法人業界協同推動"},{"start":4893.1,"end":4896.1,"text":"與同行政院提案委員賴世寶等人提案第三條"},{"start":4896.1,"end":4902.1,"text":"本條例主管機關為經濟部並設五人載具產業發展推動委員會"},{"start":4902.1,"end":4904.1,"text":"統籌跨部會協調事宜"},{"start":4904.1,"end":4908.1,"text":"本條例所設四項依其業務性質"},{"start":4908.1,"end":4912.1,"text":"由交通部、國防部、農業部、環境部、國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":4912.1,"end":4917.1,"text":"財政部及其他中央目的事業主管機關依職長辦理"},{"start":4917.1,"end":4919.1,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第三條"},{"start":4919.1,"end":4922.1,"text":"本條例所稱中央主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":4922.1,"end":4925.1,"text":"設其國防軍用採購四項為國防部"},{"start":4926.16,"end":4928.16,"text":"行政院提案第三條"},{"start":4928.16,"end":4936.16,"text":"本條例所稱國防自主無人載具採購只主管機關及其所屬其官購部隊"},{"start":4936.16,"end":4942.16,"text":"辦理經行政院核定採購第四條所定項目之主要裝備系統"},{"start":4942.16,"end":4946.16,"text":"於其資源系統之獲得產自維修工程"},{"start":4947.17,"end":4950.17,"text":"國民黨提案第三條"},{"start":4971.79,"end":4972.79,"text":"基於本地"},{"start":4973.46,"end":4975.46,"text":"軍用商規"},{"start":4975.46,"end":4982.46,"text":"二軍用商規無人載具只以商用規格之零組件為基礎"},{"start":4982.46,"end":4987.46,"text":"依軍事需求進行適應性改良並符合一定干擾"},{"start":4988.39,"end":4994.39,"text":"抗干擾抗電池脈衝及戰場存活率標準之無人載具"},{"start":4994.39,"end":5000.39,"text":"三軍民公用測試場域由國防部會同地方政府及產業界共同設置"},{"start":5000.39,"end":5010.39,"text":"公軍方及民間業者共同使用之無人載具飛機航空及作戰模擬測試場域"},{"start":5010.39,"end":5012.39,"text":"國產化比例"},{"start":5012.39,"end":5017.39,"text":"只無人載具於設計、製造、組裝及關鍵零組件供應過程中"},{"start":5017.39,"end":5020.39,"text":"源自臺灣本土廠商資產"},{"start":5022.13,"end":5024.13,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團提案"},{"start":5024.13,"end":5025.13,"text":"第二條"},{"start":5025.13,"end":5034.13,"text":"本條例所指無人機指無人飛機、無人直升機、無人多懸翼機以及其他經交通部民用航空局公告者"},{"start":5034.13,"end":5042.13,"text":"本條例所稱無人機產業指從事全機系統整合、飛行載具模組、動力模組"},{"start":5042.51,"end":5046.51,"text":"籌載模組、通訊模組、地面導控模組、飛控模組"},{"start":5047.79,"end":5050.79,"text":"非導控模組與相關服務應用資產業"},{"start":5050.79,"end":5057.79,"text":"本條例所稱可信任供應鏈指無人機系統及其關鍵零組件原料"},{"start":5057.79,"end":5063.79,"text":"其來源供應及管理符合主管機關所訂製安全要求"},{"start":5063.79,"end":5069.79,"text":"並符合主管機關公告之可信任供應鏈分級認證制度"},{"start":5069.79,"end":5076.79,"text":"委員林楚英、委員陳樹月、委員蔡玉瑜、委員林怡錦、委員吳思堯、委員賴瑞蓉、委員李坤城、委員鍾嘉斌等提案"},{"start":5076.79,"end":5078.79,"text":"軍同行政院提案第三條"},{"start":5078.79,"end":5080.79,"text":"委員賴思堡等提案第三條"},{"start":5080.79,"end":5096.79,"text":"本戰略所稱國防戰略無人載具採購指主管機關及其所屬機關構部隊辦理第四條所訂項目之主要裝備系統與其資源系統之獲得產製共同生產"},{"start":5096.79,"end":5105.79,"text":"維修工程訓練及與其一並取得之技術移轉與工業合作"},{"start":5105.79,"end":5112.79,"text":"前項採購以美國或與其他國家所產製或授權之裝備為主"},{"start":5112.79,"end":5117.79,"text":"其每以採購均應加付技術移轉及工業合作條件"},{"start":5117.79,"end":5120.79,"text":"委員賴思堡等人提案第四條"},{"start":5120.79,"end":5122.79,"text":"本條律用詞定義如下"},{"start":5122.79,"end":5127.79,"text":"一無人載具產業指研發設計製造整合測試及"},{"start":5127.79,"end":5135.79,"text":"為運無人機自動駕駛車輛無人水面及水下載具無人地面載具及其核心零組件"},{"start":5135.79,"end":5147.79,"text":"感測模組非控軟體邊緣運算平台遠端操控系統相關相關服務平台及其他金主管機關公告之智慧載具之產業"},{"start":5147.79,"end":5157.79,"text":"無人載具公司指無人載具產業依公司法設立之公司從事下列業務之一並金主管"},{"start":5158.95,"end":5169.95,"text":"機關審定者以研發製造無人機自動駕駛車輛無人水面及水下載具核心零組件及創建技術平台"},{"start":5169.95,"end":5172.95,"text":"二受託開發製造生產前"},{"start":5173.88,"end":5187.88,"text":"目所列無人載具及其測其他策略性無人載具產品三無人機子無線電遙控自動程式控制或人工智慧自主控制方式"},{"start":5187.88,"end":5196.88,"text":"於空中飛行且不搭載駕駛員之航空機具是自動駕駛車輛指搭載系統駕駛系統"},{"start":5196.88,"end":5206.88,"text":"一SAA分級達Lv.3以上於特定或全區域路況下不需人工介入即可自行自主行駛之車輛"},{"start":5206.88,"end":5212.88,"text":"無人水面及水下載具只以遠端操控或自主"},{"start":5214.11,"end":5220.11,"text":"導航方式於水面或水下航行且不需搭載駕駛員之船舶"},{"start":5221.37,"end":5233.37,"text":"六核心零組件與系統指飛行控制器感測融合模組邊緣AI運算單元高精度定位模組電池與動力系統"},{"start":5233.37,"end":5240.37,"text":"低延遲通訊模組及自動避障系統等7智慧載具創新技術平台"},{"start":5240.37,"end":5251.37,"text":"此專門應用於無人載具資開發測試驗證或售托製造具高度研發風險關鍵及創新性"},{"start":5254.33,"end":5264.33,"text":"前項第二款無人載具公司之審定要件應被文件程序審定之撤銷或廢止其他相關事項"},{"start":5266.02,"end":5267.02,"text":"此辦法"},{"start":5267.72,"end":5273.72,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第二條本條例所稱無人載具只具備自動"},{"start":5274.8,"end":5289.8,"text":"控航遙控或自主運作能力之無人飛行載具無人水面載具無人水下載具無人地面載具或其他經中央主管機關公告指定之載具"},{"start":5291.05,"end":5302.05,"text":"前項無人載具之範圍包含其關鍵零組件通訊模組次系統控制軟體系統者合集維修服務但不包含太空發展"},{"start":5302.72,"end":5307.72,"text":"法所定所定之發設載具及太空航距"},{"start":5311.52,"end":5316.52,"text":"行政院提案第四條本條例所定國防自主無人載具採購之項目如下"},{"start":5316.52,"end":5322.52,"text":"一冰海偵測行無人機二冰海攻擊行無人機三自行"},{"start":5323.33,"end":5330.33,"text":"小型自殺無人機國民黨團提案第十六條前條預算之支用以下列項目違憲"},{"start":5330.33,"end":5343.33,"text":"一無人均用無人載具之採購產製維修工程及訓練二均民共用場域測試場域之設置及維運費用"},{"start":5343.33,"end":5360.33,"text":"三產業聚落發展及中小企業特別輔助前向各款經費支用應優先支持國內研發生產及製造之無人載具及相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5362.18,"end":5364.18,"text":"MING PAO CANADA .com"},{"start":5363.55,"end":5366.55,"text":"委員 林楚英 委員 陳樹月"},{"start":5367.19,"end":5374.19,"text":"委員 林憶瑾 委員 吳思瑤 委員 李坤誠 委員 鍾嘉斌等人提案均同行政院提案第四條"},{"start":5374.19,"end":5376.19,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇等人提案第四條"},{"start":5381.27,"end":5383.27,"text":"委員 林慧琼 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5383.27,"end":5385.27,"text":"委員 林慧琼 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5385.27,"end":5387.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5387.27,"end":5389.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5389.27,"end":5391.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5391.27,"end":5393.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5393.27,"end":5395.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5395.27,"end":5397.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5397.27,"end":5399.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5399.27,"end":5401.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5401.27,"end":5403.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5403.27,"end":5405.27,"text":"委員 陳家瑋 委員 陳家瑋"},{"start":5405.27,"end":5407.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5407.27,"end":5409.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5409.27,"end":5411.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5411.27,"end":5413.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5413.27,"end":5415.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5415.27,"end":5417.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5417.27,"end":5419.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5419.27,"end":5421.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5421.27,"end":5423.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5423.27,"end":5425.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5425.27,"end":5427.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5427.27,"end":5429.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5429.27,"end":5431.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5431.27,"end":5433.27,"text":"委員 蔡玉宇"},{"start":5419.79,"end":5421.79,"text":"其他無人載具與同行政院提案"},{"start":5421.79,"end":5423.79,"text":"委員戴世保等人提案第四條"},{"start":5423.79,"end":5429.79,"text":"本條例所訂國防戰略無人載具採購"},{"start":5429.79,"end":5435.79,"text":"已具備下列一款或數款作戰能力之無人載具系統及其支援裝備為範疇"},{"start":5435.79,"end":5437.79,"text":"依高空航空"},{"start":5439.27,"end":5444.27,"text":"高空長航時廣域情報監視及偵測能力"},{"start":5444.27,"end":5447.27,"text":"二 精準打擊目標定位或電子作戰能力"},{"start":5447.27,"end":5452.27,"text":"三 廣域海域或空域持續監控及反潛能力"},{"start":5452.27,"end":5457.27,"text":"四 有人無人協同作戰及任務自主能力"},{"start":5457.27,"end":5462.27,"text":"五 其他具備戰略價值之先進無人載具能力"},{"start":5462.27,"end":5467.27,"text":"前項各款所趨之兼指揮管制與"},{"start":5468.43,"end":5471.43,"text":"情偵測整合系統"},{"start":5471.43,"end":5475.43,"text":"衛星資料鏈地面管制戰機感測"},{"start":5475.43,"end":5478.43,"text":"籌載得以並納入採購範圍"},{"start":5479.58,"end":5481.58,"text":"才購之"},{"start":5482.03,"end":5487.03,"text":"具體品項數量及優先順序由主管機關"},{"start":5487.9,"end":5495.9,"text":"建軍備戰需求聯邦技術可獲得性及國內產業產能"},{"start":5495.95,"end":5497.95,"text":"結產接能量"},{"start":5498.16,"end":5500.16,"text":"逐年核定後提報行政院"},{"start":5500.88,"end":5501.88,"text":"行政院提案第五條"},{"start":5501.88,"end":5505.88,"text":"本條例所需經費上限為新臺幣兩千一百億"},{"start":5505.88,"end":5507.88,"text":"以特別預算方式編列"},{"start":5507.88,"end":5511.88,"text":"其預算編制不受預算法第23條不得充經常性"},{"start":5512.71,"end":5516.71,"text":"支出規定之限制前項所需經費來源"},{"start":5516.71,"end":5522.71,"text":"得以引用以前年度稅計剩餘或舉介債務方式辦理"},{"start":5522.71,"end":5527.71,"text":"其年度舉介債務之額度不受公司公共債務法第五條"},{"start":5527.71,"end":5529.71,"text":"第七項規定之限制"},{"start":5529.71,"end":5536.71,"text":"中央政府總預算及本特別預算與本條例施行期間之舉債額度合計數"},{"start":5536.71,"end":5544.71,"text":"不得超過該期間總預算及特別預算稅出總額合計數之50%"},{"start":5544.71,"end":5552.71,"text":"本條例施行期間中央政府舉介之一年以上公共債務未償餘額預算數"},{"start":5552.71,"end":5556.71,"text":"因依本公共債務法第五條第一項規定辦理"},{"start":5556.71,"end":5558.71,"text":"國民黨提案第15條"},{"start":5558.71,"end":5565.71,"text":"為建立長期穩健之無人載具產業發展及國防建設機制"},{"start":5565.71,"end":5571.71,"text":"持續推動無人載具產業發展"},{"start":5571.71,"end":5577.71,"text":"強化國防自主能量建構安全可信任之供應鏈體系"},{"start":5577.71,"end":5580.71,"text":"及提升國際競爭力"},{"start":5580.71,"end":5583.71,"text":"中央政府應循每年預算程序"},{"start":5584.63,"end":5586.63,"text":"每年編制新臺幣400億元"},{"start":5586.63,"end":5587.63,"text":"連續編列6年"},{"start":5587.63,"end":5590.63,"text":"總額為新臺幣2400億元"},{"start":5590.63,"end":5591.63,"text":"委員林楚雲等人提案"},{"start":5591.63,"end":5592.63,"text":"委員陳樹月等人提案"},{"start":5592.63,"end":5593.63,"text":"委員蔡育宇等人提案"},{"start":5593.63,"end":5595.63,"text":"委員李怡菁等人提案"},{"start":5595.63,"end":5596.63,"text":"委員吳思瑤"},{"start":5598.25,"end":5599.25,"text":"等人提案"},{"start":5599.25,"end":5600.25,"text":"委員"},{"start":5600.46,"end":5603.46,"text":"委員李坤城等人提案"},{"start":5603.46,"end":5604.46,"text":"委員鍾嘉斌等人提案"},{"start":5604.46,"end":5606.46,"text":"軍同行政院提案第五條"},{"start":5607.78,"end":5609.78,"text":"委員賴瑞榮等人提案第五條"},{"start":5609.78,"end":5613.78,"text":"拒守新臺幣為2400億元"},{"start":5613.78,"end":5615.78,"text":"於同行政院提案"},{"start":5616.13,"end":5618.13,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第六條"},{"start":5618.13,"end":5620.13,"text":"本條例所需經費上限為"},{"start":5620.13,"end":5621.13,"text":"新臺幣500億元"},{"start":5621.13,"end":5623.13,"text":"以特別預算方式編列"},{"start":5623.13,"end":5625.13,"text":"其預算編制不受預算法"},{"start":5625.13,"end":5628.13,"text":"第23條不得充經償"},{"start":5629.33,"end":5631.33,"text":"支出規定之限制"},{"start":5631.33,"end":5633.33,"text":"前項經費應依第五條"},{"start":5633.33,"end":5635.33,"text":"第四項規定提撥不低於"},{"start":5635.33,"end":5638.33,"text":"10%專攻技術移轉接收"},{"start":5638.33,"end":5642.33,"text":"產業化及維修量能建立之用"},{"start":5642.33,"end":5645.33,"text":"第四項同行政院提案"},{"start":5645.33,"end":5647.33,"text":"第2項及第3項"},{"start":5647.99,"end":5649.99,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第五條"},{"start":5649.99,"end":5651.99,"text":"中央主管機關國防部或"},{"start":5651.99,"end":5653.99,"text":"目的事業主管機關"},{"start":5653.99,"end":5656.99,"text":"得依本條例辦理各項產業扶植"},{"start":5656.99,"end":5659.99,"text":"與採購需求其所需經費"},{"start":5659.99,"end":5661.99,"text":"以特別預算方式編列"},{"start":5661.99,"end":5663.99,"text":"其預算編制不受預算法"},{"start":5663.99,"end":5665.99,"text":"第23條規定之限制"},{"start":5665.99,"end":5668.99,"text":"非經立法院同意不得相互流用"},{"start":5669.76,"end":5672.76,"text":"前項產業扶植與採購資"},{"start":5672.76,"end":5675.76,"text":"辦理採一年一期方式編列"},{"start":5675.76,"end":5678.76,"text":"期滿後續預算及期成"},{"start":5678.76,"end":5683.76,"text":"經立法院同意後分其辦理預算籌編及審議"},{"start":5685.03,"end":5688.03,"text":"第3項及第4項同行政院提案"},{"start":5688.03,"end":5690.03,"text":"第2項及第3項"},{"start":5691.28,"end":5693.28,"text":"行政院提案第6條"},{"start":5693.28,"end":5696.28,"text":"本條例所列預算之執行審計機關"},{"start":5696.28,"end":5698.28,"text":"應依法辦理審計"},{"start":5698.28,"end":5700.28,"text":"委員林楚英"},{"start":5700.28,"end":5701.28,"text":"委員陳樹月"},{"start":5701.28,"end":5702.28,"text":"委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":5702.28,"end":5703.28,"text":"委員林依瑾"},{"start":5703.28,"end":5704.28,"text":"委員吳思瑤"},{"start":5704.28,"end":5705.28,"text":"委員賴瑞榮"},{"start":5706.36,"end":5707.36,"text":"委員李坤誠"},{"start":5707.36,"end":5708.36,"text":"委員鍾佳斌"},{"start":5708.36,"end":5709.36,"text":"等人提案"},{"start":5709.36,"end":5711.36,"text":"軍同行政院提案第6條"},{"start":5711.68,"end":5713.68,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第16條"},{"start":5713.68,"end":5715.68,"text":"本條例所列預算之執行"},{"start":5715.68,"end":5717.68,"text":"應依下列規定辦理"},{"start":5717.68,"end":5719.68,"text":"1審計機關"},{"start":5719.68,"end":5721.68,"text":"應依法辦理審計"},{"start":5721.68,"end":5722.68,"text":"2主管機關"},{"start":5722.68,"end":5724.68,"text":"依預算法第63條辦理"},{"start":5725.48,"end":5726.48,"text":"劉詠潛"},{"start":5727.1,"end":5730.1,"text":"非經立法院同意不得留用"},{"start":5730.1,"end":5733.1,"text":"主管機關應專案列管及考核"},{"start":5733.1,"end":5736.1,"text":"本條例所列計畫之執行"},{"start":5736.1,"end":5739.1,"text":"並將執行進度及績效美會"},{"start":5739.1,"end":5741.1,"text":"其向立法院提出專案報告"},{"start":5741.1,"end":5744.1,"text":"本機關及其上級機關"},{"start":5744.1,"end":5747.1,"text":"應依法執行並落實監督機制"},{"start":5747.1,"end":5749.1,"text":"本條例施行屆滿之日"},{"start":5749.1,"end":5751.1,"text":"次年5月底前"},{"start":5751.1,"end":5753.1,"text":"主管機關應就其"},{"start":5753.1,"end":5754.1,"text":"實施成效"},{"start":5754.1,"end":5756.1,"text":"作成總報告並送立法院"},{"start":5759.22,"end":5761.22,"text":"委員國民黨提案第四條"},{"start":5761.22,"end":5764.22,"text":"國防部應依量大"},{"start":5764.22,"end":5767.22,"text":"駕聯智慧化分布式資源"},{"start":5767.22,"end":5770.22,"text":"則訂立無人載具防衛體系"},{"start":5770.22,"end":5772.22,"text":"之中長期發展目標"},{"start":5772.22,"end":5775.22,"text":"應每2年滾動檢討一次"},{"start":5775.22,"end":5778.22,"text":"並依臺海安全情勢變化及"},{"start":5778.22,"end":5779.22,"text":"國際先進"},{"start":5780.88,"end":5782.88,"text":"國家之發展趨勢調整"},{"start":5782.88,"end":5784.88,"text":"經濟部應會同國防部"},{"start":5784.88,"end":5786.88,"text":"每年向立法院提出無人載具"},{"start":5786.88,"end":5788.88,"text":"提升國防戰力產業發展"},{"start":5788.88,"end":5791.88,"text":"科技創新及經濟效益階段"},{"start":5791.88,"end":5793.88,"text":"性發展報告"},{"start":5794.33,"end":5796.33,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團提案第五條"},{"start":5796.33,"end":5799.33,"text":"經濟部應會同相關機關"},{"start":5799.33,"end":5802.33,"text":"每4年提出無人產業發展綱領"},{"start":5802.33,"end":5804.33,"text":"並每2年檢討修正"},{"start":5804.33,"end":5806.33,"text":"涉及國防運用事項"},{"start":5806.33,"end":5808.33,"text":"應會同國防部進行"},{"start":5808.33,"end":5810.33,"text":"前項綱領應載明下列事項"},{"start":5810.33,"end":5812.33,"text":"1.產業發展綱領及"},{"start":5812.33,"end":5815.33,"text":"關鍵技術期效指標"},{"start":5815.33,"end":5819.33,"text":"2.關鍵技術自主化及國產化目標"},{"start":5819.33,"end":5823.33,"text":"3.先進空中運輸及運用發展策略"},{"start":5823.33,"end":5826.33,"text":"4.可信任供應鏈推動策略"},{"start":5826.33,"end":5829.33,"text":"5.無法規條司及跨部會分工事項"},{"start":5829.33,"end":5832.33,"text":"6.六國內市場、國際市場及外銷目標"},{"start":5832.33,"end":5835.33,"text":"7.期仍採培育及產學合作策略"},{"start":5836.33,"end":5839.33,"text":"8.經費需求、財源規劃及預期效益"},{"start":5839.33,"end":5842.33,"text":"第一項所稱無人產業發展綱領"},{"start":5842.33,"end":5845.33,"text":"應經國家無人機產業發展"},{"start":5845.33,"end":5848.33,"text":"戰略特別委員會審議通過"},{"start":5848.33,"end":5850.33,"text":"並經行政院核定後"},{"start":5850.33,"end":5852.33,"text":"應送立法院"},{"start":5852.82,"end":5854.82,"text":"MAC"},{"start":5855.68,"end":5856.68,"text":"國民黨提案第五條"},{"start":5856.68,"end":5859.68,"text":"無人載具防衛體系之規劃"},{"start":5859.68,"end":5862.68,"text":"應遵循分佈"},{"start":5862.68,"end":5864.68,"text":"分佈適任性原則"},{"start":5864.68,"end":5867.68,"text":"避免集中分佈或集中產生"},{"start":5867.68,"end":5869.68,"text":"1.無人載具之生產基地"},{"start":5869.68,"end":5872.68,"text":"應分佈於至少三個不同縣市"},{"start":5872.68,"end":5875.68,"text":"不得集中於單一地理區域"},{"start":5875.68,"end":5878.68,"text":"以降低遭受集中打擊之風險"},{"start":5878.68,"end":5881.68,"text":"2.無人載具之戰備儲存"},{"start":5881.68,"end":5882.68,"text":"應分散於不同據點"},{"start":5882.68,"end":5885.68,"text":"單一據點儲存量不得超過總佔"},{"start":5887.2,"end":5889.2,"text":"儲存量至25%"},{"start":5889.2,"end":5891.2,"text":"3.無人載具之操作"},{"start":5891.89,"end":5893.89,"text":"及指揮系統"},{"start":5893.89,"end":5896.89,"text":"應建立分散式備員架構"},{"start":5896.89,"end":5899.89,"text":"確保單點實能不致癱瘓整體"},{"start":5900.79,"end":5901.79,"text":"作戰能力"},{"start":5902.31,"end":5904.31,"text":"國民黨提案第六條"},{"start":5904.31,"end":5906.31,"text":"國防部應會同地方政府"},{"start":5906.31,"end":5908.31,"text":"於本條例施行後一年內"},{"start":5908.31,"end":5909.31,"text":"於本條例第五條"},{"start":5909.31,"end":5912.31,"text":"鎖定不同地理區域規劃至少三處"},{"start":5912.31,"end":5914.31,"text":"均民共用測試場域"},{"start":5914.31,"end":5917.31,"text":"供軍方民間業者共同使用"},{"start":5917.31,"end":5919.31,"text":"進行無人載具之非控"},{"start":5920.18,"end":5921.18,"text":"航空"},{"start":5921.18,"end":5923.18,"text":"抗干擾及作戰模擬測試"},{"start":5923.18,"end":5925.18,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團提案第七條"},{"start":5925.18,"end":5928.18,"text":"經濟部應會同相關機關及地方主管機關"},{"start":5928.18,"end":5930.18,"text":"化設無人機測試場域"},{"start":5931.52,"end":5933.52,"text":"測試走廊及示範區"},{"start":5933.52,"end":5939.52,"text":"國防部應盤點適當軍事演習或軍事訓練場域"},{"start":5939.52,"end":5943.52,"text":"作為軍用無人機系統專門測試場域"},{"start":5944,"end":5948,"text":"於前二項場域進行創新實驗者"},{"start":5948,"end":5952,"text":"中央主管機關得排除或調整部分法規限制"},{"start":5952,"end":5957,"text":"並建立飛行操作安全及性能資料回饋機制"},{"start":5957,"end":5960,"text":"作為法規修正及產業推動之依據"},{"start":5960,"end":5963,"text":"委員賴思堡等人提案第十四條"},{"start":5963,"end":5965,"text":"為加速無人載具產品商業化"},{"start":5965.77,"end":5968.77,"text":"主管機關及各中央目的事業主管機關"},{"start":5968.77,"end":5972.77,"text":"應依據無人載具科技創新實驗條例"},{"start":5972.77,"end":5975.77,"text":"輔導無人載具公司與指定監理"},{"start":5975.77,"end":5978.77,"text":"沙盒範圍內進行實驗性飛行"},{"start":5980.35,"end":5985.35,"text":"行駛或航行並建立配套之測驗場域"},{"start":5985.35,"end":5990.35,"text":"提供電池干擾測試環境適應測試及"},{"start":5990.35,"end":5993.35,"text":"飛安驗證等服務主管機關及"},{"start":5993.35,"end":5997.35,"text":"中央目的事業主管機關對於無人"},{"start":5998.12,"end":6003.12,"text":"載具產品上市前所需通過之刑事認證"},{"start":6003.4,"end":6007.4,"text":"軟體驗證資安檢測飛航"},{"start":6007.4,"end":6012.4,"text":"四航審查等應訂定公開透明之流程及"}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傳播法及船員法有關傳播檢查"},{"start":6153.52,"end":6157.72,"text":"帳糧設備航行限制及人員配置之規定"},{"start":6157.72,"end":6163.4400000000005,"text":"三 道路交通管理處罰條例及公路法有關"},{"start":6164.16,"end":6168.8,"text":"車輛檢驗 台照登記 駕駛執照及行駛路線之規定"},{"start":6168.8,"end":6178.7,"text":"四 電信管理法有關無線電頻率使用電信網路設置及設平器材"},{"start":6179.28,"end":6180.38,"text":"管制之規定"},{"start":6180.38,"end":6185.88,"text":"五 其他經中央主管機關會商相關目的事業主管機關指定"},{"start":6185.88,"end":6189.679999999999,"text":"並公告排除適用之法規"},{"start":6189.679999999999,"end":6193.48,"text":"與同委員宗嘉斌等人提案第十二條"},{"start":6194.23,"end":6196.429999999999,"text":"國民黨團體案第七條"},{"start":6196.429999999999,"end":6201.429999999999,"text":"軍用無人載具資採購應訂定國產化比例目標"},{"start":6201.429999999999,"end":6204.03,"text":"並依下列期程逐步提升"},{"start":6204.03,"end":6208.83,"text":"一 本條例施行後兩年內軍用商規無人機資"},{"start":6208.83,"end":6211.629999999999,"text":"國產化比例達百分之五十以上"},{"start":6211.629999999999,"end":6216.629999999999,"text":"二 本條例施行後四年內軍用商規無人機資"},{"start":6216.629999999999,"end":6219.429999999999,"text":"國產化比例達百分之八十以上"},{"start":6219.43,"end":6222.030000000001,"text":"無人體及地面無人載具資"},{"start":6222.030000000001,"end":6225.2300000000005,"text":"國產化比例達百分之七十以上"},{"start":6225.2300000000005,"end":6228.030000000001,"text":"前項國產化比例之計算"},{"start":6228.030000000001,"end":6230.43,"text":"應以零組件產值佔比"},{"start":6232.2,"end":6236.4,"text":"產值佔整機產值之比例為基準"},{"start":6236.4,"end":6239.2,"text":"由經濟部會同國防部定"},{"start":6239.6,"end":6240.8,"text":"定計算辦法"},{"start":6241.41,"end":6243.21,"text":"國民黨提案第八條"},{"start":6243.21,"end":6248.01,"text":"對投入無人載具關鍵化零組件國產化之優良業者"},{"start":6248.01,"end":6249.8099999999995,"text":"經濟部得卓與獎勵"},{"start":6249.8099999999995,"end":6252.01,"text":"前項獎勵得以下列方式為之"},{"start":6252.01,"end":6252.8099999999995,"text":"一 捐補助"},{"start":6252.8099999999995,"end":6255.61,"text":"二 資金 技術 投資或授權"},{"start":6255.61,"end":6256.8099999999995,"text":"三 優先採購"},{"start":6256.8099999999995,"end":6259.41,"text":"四 提供融資及優惠利率"},{"start":6259.41,"end":6262.61,"text":"前兩項獎勵實際對象條件"},{"start":6262.61,"end":6265.01,"text":"基準及其他相關事項之辦法"},{"start":6265.01,"end":6269.01,"text":"由主管機關會商相關機關定值"},{"start":6278.55,"end":6281.150000000001,"text":"委員宗嘉斌等人提案第十四條"},{"start":6281.150000000001,"end":6285.95,"text":"為促進我國無人載具產業發展及提升國際競爭力"},{"start":6285.95,"end":6288.75,"text":"委員會得辦理或補助下列事項"},{"start":6288.75,"end":6292.150000000001,"text":"依無人載具及其關鍵零組件"},{"start":6292.150000000001,"end":6295.150000000001,"text":"次系統之前瞻研發製造於"},{"start":6295.71,"end":6298.31,"text":"系統整合二產業所"},{"start":6299.76,"end":6302.360000000001,"text":"產業所專業人才資培訓"},{"start":6302.360000000001,"end":6303.76,"text":"延攬及產學合作"},{"start":6303.76,"end":6305.16,"text":"三 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xt":"臺灣民眾黨議員"},{"start":7082.8,"end":7084.8,"text":"國際市場預測與開拓"},{"start":7084.8,"end":7088.8,"text":"二 收集國際應用資料公布會參考"},{"start":7088.8,"end":7093.8,"text":"三 協助產業聯盟爭取國際市場商機"},{"start":7093.8,"end":7100.8,"text":"四 依產業創新條例及相關法令提供必要之租稅融資及投資協助"},{"start":7100.8,"end":7104.8,"text":"五 盤點公共部門共通非軍用採購需求"},{"start":7104.8,"end":7110.8,"text":"前項第五款公部門與盤點非軍用採購需求時"},{"start":7110.8,"end":7122.8,"text":"因載明採購之產品系統與其相關資源系統產品之具體名稱數量預算金額全受其維持成本及預計執行年度"},{"start":7122.8,"end":7129.8,"text":"經濟部應匯統外交部經濟部國貿國際貿易主管機關"},{"start":7129.8,"end":7134.8,"text":"標準檢驗主管機關及相關機關協助無人產業"},{"start":7135.54,"end":7143.54,"text":"掌握國際標準出口管制最終用途產品認證資安認證及市場準錄範圍"},{"start":7143.54,"end":7154.54,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十一條無人機及其共通用品項屬規格共通需求重複且適合集中採購者"},{"start":7154.54,"end":7163.54,"text":"應由主管採購機關或其指定支機關依政府採購法及共同供應契約相關規定"},{"start":7163.54,"end":7167.54,"text":"以共同供應契約或其他集中採購方式辦理"},{"start":7167.54,"end":7175.54,"text":"其共同規格安全標準資安要求可信任供應鏈檢驗項目及維修服務項目"},{"start":7175.54,"end":7178.54,"text":"因匯統經濟部及相關機關"},{"start":7181.59,"end":7191.59,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十二條國防部應優先採購整合和訓練使用我國製造低成本高性能無人機"},{"start":7191.59,"end":7193.59,"text":"國防部應定期檢討做"},{"start":7194.85,"end":7202.85,"text":"國戰需求及科技發展需求優先推動自主飛行群飛協同抗干擾導航"},{"start":7202.85,"end":7203.85,"text":"模化"},{"start":7204.59,"end":7208.59,"text":"模組化設計及快速量產能之建置"},{"start":7208.59,"end":7216.59,"text":"國防部應每月更新可信任供應鏈及關鍵零組件認證清單"},{"start":7216.59,"end":7224.59,"text":"國防部於驗收後對廠商提供標的任由與契約規定不符一律使得進行抽驗"},{"start":7224.59,"end":7230.59,"text":"廠商應就該瑕疵保固及瑕疵擔保責任"},{"start":7230.59,"end":7232.59,"text":"委員賴世寶等人提案第十六條"},{"start":7232.59,"end":7245.59,"text":"主管機關應會同國防部推動無人載具技術軍民共用化輔導具備軍事潛力之無人載具公司取得國防採購資格"},{"start":7245.59,"end":7253.59,"text":"並得就其研發之軍民雙用技術給予額外研發補助或加速審定"},{"start":7253.59,"end":7262.59,"text":"國防部得依國防採購法相關規定對國內自治且具關鍵佔數能力之無人載具產品"},{"start":7262.59,"end":7269.59,"text":"即予優先採購及長期供應合約以形成穩定國內需求帶動產業量"},{"start":7271.16,"end":7274.16,"text":"委員宗嘉賓等人提案第八條"},{"start":7274.16,"end":7287.16,"text":"各級政府機關辦理無人載具及其系統之採購屬基於國家安全或國防目的而需排除政府採購協定適用者"},{"start":7287.16,"end":7294.16,"text":"得採購限制性招標優先向國內廠商採購不受政府採購法第十九條規定之限制"},{"start":7294.16,"end":7298.16,"text":"前項以外之採購各級政府機關於不抵觸我國"},{"start":7299.68,"end":7305.68,"text":"替節之條約或協定範圍內的優先向國內廠商採購"},{"start":7305.68,"end":7312.68,"text":"各級政府機關依前兩項辦理採購時得示國內產業技術發展程度"},{"start":7312.68,"end":7321.68,"text":"於招標文件中訂定合理之國產化比例要求其訂定原則由委員會會同主管機關定之"},{"start":7321.68,"end":7324.68,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第七條"},{"start":7324.68,"end":7327.68,"text":"同委員宗嘉賓等人提案第八條"},{"start":7328.42,"end":7331.42,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第十四第十七條"},{"start":7331.42,"end":7336.42,"text":"各級政府機關公立學校及公營事業採購無人載具產品或服務"},{"start":7336.42,"end":7343.42,"text":"應優先採購符合本條例規定由國內無人載具公司製造且國產零組件"},{"start":7344.57,"end":7350.57,"text":"使用比例達一定標準者其相關規範由主管機關公告之主管機關"},{"start":7350.57,"end":7354.57,"text":"應鼓勵無人載具公司參與國際採購合作及外銷推廣"},{"start":7355.76,"end":7361.76,"text":"並得委託貿易推廣機構提供市場進入輔導及輔助"},{"start":7361.76,"end":7364.76,"text":"國民民眾黨提案第十三條"},{"start":7364.76,"end":7369.76,"text":"經濟部應建立無人機產業資料庫"},{"start":7369.76,"end":7374.76,"text":"定期收集會診及公布下列資訊"},{"start":7374.76,"end":7375.76,"text":"一產業鏈"},{"start":7376.95,"end":7381.95,"text":"產業鏈業者產品類型及主要應用領域二"},{"start":7381.95,"end":7384.95,"text":"關鍵零組件系統整合檢測"},{"start":7386.32,"end":7396.32,"text":"驗證及維修服務量能三關鍵技術自主發展技術成熟度量產備能度及驗證能力"},{"start":7396.32,"end":7400.32,"text":"是資安驗證可信任供應鏈驗證"},{"start":7400.32,"end":7406.32,"text":"國際認證及標準接軌情形五測試場域測試走廊"},{"start":7406.32,"end":7410.32,"text":"是非安建及相關安全資料統計"},{"start":7410.32,"end":7415.32,"text":"六公務用途無人機只使用類型及安全管理情形"},{"start":7415.32,"end":7422.32,"text":"七無人機共同規格共同供應契約採購監督及維修服務情形"},{"start":7422.32,"end":7431.32,"text":"八人才供需訓練及證照情形九出口市場國際合作及互通性標準情形"},{"start":7431.32,"end":7435.32,"text":"前項資料涉及國家機密營運"},{"start":7437.2,"end":7442.2,"text":"營業秘密個人資料資通安全或執法安全者"},{"start":7442.2,"end":7446.2,"text":"因依相關法律保密或去識別化後公布"},{"start":7446.2,"end":7453.2,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團體案第十四條以詐區虛偽不實資料或其他不正方法"},{"start":7453.2,"end":7460.2,"text":"深得政府就無人產業所訂製補助獎勵投資融資或信用保證者"},{"start":7460.2,"end":7466.2,"text":"中央主管機關因撤銷或廢止其受領資格並追回"},{"start":7466.37,"end":7472.37,"text":"以撥付資全部或一部分款項中央主管機關因前項情形受有損害者"},{"start":7472.37,"end":7477.37,"text":"得項行為人請求損害賠償若經查明為"},{"start":7479.13,"end":7484.13,"text":"若經查明行為人細出於故意者中央主管機關得以侵害"},{"start":7485.32,"end":7487.32,"text":"請結令請求損害"},{"start":7488.53,"end":7496.53,"text":"而一倍至三倍至懲罰性賠償金第一項之行為人設及刑事責任者由中央主管機關"},{"start":7496.98,"end":7509.98,"text":"因移送檢查機關偵辦易得依刑事申訴法之規定提起自訴等其他救濟委員宗教兵等人提案第十六條委員會"},{"start":7509.98,"end":7519.98,"text":"針對依本條例辦理之採購案及受由投資抵減獎勵或補助者因定期或不定期進行查核"},{"start":7519.98,"end":7529.98,"text":"其查核之項目基準程序及其他因遵循事項之辦法由委員會定之前項查核涉及零組件產地溯源"},{"start":7529.98,"end":7539.98,"text":"資訊安全檢測及系統技術規格者委員會得委託具公信力之第三方專業"},{"start":7541.75,"end":7555.75,"text":"驗證機構或法人辦理受查核之機關得標廠商或獎勵補助之營利事業對於前兩項支查核或檢測不得規避妨礙或拒絕"},{"start":7555.75,"end":7562.75,"text":"並應主動提供供應鏈來源證明財務報表生產紀錄及其他相關佐證事項"},{"start":7563.96,"end":7574.96,"text":"經查核發現有違反國本條例第八條國產化比例第九條資通安全規範或有其他違法違約情形者"},{"start":7574.96,"end":7583.96,"text":"委員會或主管機關得事情節輕重終止或解除契約追繳以撥付支補助款及依法規定"},{"start":7585.33,"end":7593.33,"text":"補徵疑底檢之稅額其涉及刑事責任者依法移送檢調機關就"},{"start":7593.75,"end":7594.25,"text":"辦"},{"start":7594.88,"end":7600.88,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第十五條同委員宗嘉斌等人提案第十六條"},{"start":7600.88,"end":7613.88,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十五條中央主管機關應會同相關機關與本條例公布後一年內完成一提出第一期無人機產業發展剛領二"},{"start":7613.88,"end":7622.88,"text":"無人機安全融入空域管理體系之規劃三測試場域測試走廊及示範區之畫設"},{"start":7622.88,"end":7632.88,"text":"同行主管機關應會同相關機關與本條例公布施行後六個月內完成可信任供應鏈分級認證制度之建立"},{"start":7632.88,"end":7644.88,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第五條為促進無人載具產業升級從事第四條第一項第二款第一櫻木業務之無人載具公司投資"},{"start":7644.88,"end":7651.88,"text":"同項第三款至第八款規定之研發與發展支出得以百分之"},{"start":7652.61,"end":7662.61,"text":"得以支出金額百分之二十五限度內自有因應那營利事業所得稅之年度起五年內抵減"},{"start":7662.61,"end":7672.61,"text":"各年度因應那營利事業所得稅額前項投資抵減其每一年度的抵減總額已不超過該無人載具公司"},{"start":7672.61,"end":7681.61,"text":"當年度因應那營利事業所得稅額百分之五十為限但最後年度抵減金額不在此限"},{"start":7681.61,"end":7685.61,"text":"第一項投資抵減之事用範圍核定機關申請"},{"start":7686.71,"end":7695.71,"text":"申請期限申請程序施行期限抵減率及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關會同財政部定制"},{"start":7695.71,"end":7704.71,"text":"委員宗家兵等人提案第七條營利事業投資與無人載具之前瞻技術研發先進製造設備"},{"start":7704.71,"end":7711.71,"text":"測試儀器及資安防護設備支支出得於支出金額百分之十額度內"},{"start":7711.71,"end":7723.71,"text":"至當年度起五年內抵減各年度因應那營利事業所得稅額前項投資抵減其每一年度的抵減總額已不超過營利事業"},{"start":7723.71,"end":7731.71,"text":"當年度因應那營利事業所得稅額百分之三十為限營利事業就同意支出第一項規定"},{"start":7731.71,"end":7738.71,"text":"提前者不得重複適用產業創新條例或其他法律所定研究"},{"start":7739.16,"end":7741.16,"text":"發展或設備投資"},{"start":7741.49,"end":7744.49,"text":"此字幕由 Amara.org 社群提供"},{"start":7742.57,"end":7756.57,"text":"投資資投資抵減其與其他投資抵減合併適用時每一年度合計抵減金額不得超過當年度因應那營利事業所得稅額百分之五十"},{"start":7757.42,"end":7761.42,"text":"委員王定理等人提案 同委員鍾嘉斌等人提案第七條"},{"start":7763.24,"end":7766.24,"text":"委員賴氏寶等是四人提案 第六條"},{"start":7793.24,"end":7798.24,"text":"自有因應那營利事業所得稅之年度起 抵減當年度因應那營利事業所得稅額"},{"start":7798.24,"end":7807.24,"text":"二 與支出金額百分之三限度內 自有因應那營利事業所得稅之年度起 三年內抵減各年度因應那營利事業所得稅額"},{"start":7807.24,"end":7820.24,"text":"前向無人載具公司與同一年度合併適用前向投資抵減及其他投資抵減時 其他年度合計得抵減總額已不超過當年度因應那營利事業所得稅額百分之五五十為限"},{"start":7820.24,"end":7821.24,"text":"但最後"},{"start":7821.95,"end":7831.95,"text":"最後年度抵減金額不再此限 前向無人載具公司申請適用第一項投資抵減 因提出具一定效益之投資計畫 經主管機關專業案核准"},{"start":7831.95,"end":7842.95,"text":"且與同一課稅年度以申請一次為限 前三項投資抵減之適用範圍具一定效益之投資計畫 申請期限 申請程序當年度合計得抵減總額之計算"},{"start":7842.95,"end":7848.95,"text":"及其他相關事項之辦法 由主管機關會同財政部訂之 委員賴氏寶等四十四人提案第七條"},{"start":7848.95,"end":7856.95,"text":"為鼓勵無人載具公司之創立或擴充營利事業原始認股或應募屬該無人載具公司發行之股票"},{"start":7856.95,"end":7867.95,"text":"除非該公司居民補充達三年以上 且該無人載具公司為該認股或應募金額 依其他法律規定 申請免徵營利事業所得稅或股東投資抵減者"},{"start":7867.95,"end":7877.95,"text":"得以其取得該股票之價款20%限度內 至其有因應利事業所得稅之年度起五年內 抵減各年度因應利事業所得稅而"},{"start":7877.95,"end":7881.95,"text":"其每一年度得抵減總額 已不超過該營利事業當年度"},{"start":7883.14,"end":7891.14,"text":"因應利事業所得稅而50%違憲 前項鎖定無人載具公司屬從事第四條第一項第二款第二項業務者"},{"start":7891.14,"end":7897.14,"text":"已未上市未上櫃公司或自設立登記日期未滿十年至上市上櫃公司違憲"},{"start":7898.56,"end":7908.56,"text":"第一項申請抵減之要件申請期限申請程序施行期限抵減率及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關會同財政部定制"},{"start":7908.56,"end":7918.56,"text":"文人大事保等44人提案第八條個人與現金投資未上市或未上櫃之無人載具公司且對同一公司當年度投資金額達新台幣100萬元以上"},{"start":7918.56,"end":7928.56,"text":"並取得該公司之新發行股份持有期間達三年者得就投資金額50%限度內自持有期間兼滿三年之當年度起兩年內"},{"start":7928.56,"end":7934.56,"text":"自個人綜合所得稅而終減除每年得減除的金額合計以新台幣500萬元以違憲"},{"start":7934.56,"end":7939.56,"text":"前項鎖定無人載具公司屬從事第四條第一項第二款第一幕業務者"},{"start":7939.56,"end":7948.56,"text":"以設立登記日起未滿十年之公司違憲屬從事同管第二幕業務者以設立登記日起未滿五年之公司違憲"},{"start":7948.56,"end":7958.56,"text":"第一項個人資資格條件申請期限申請程序持有期間計算合訂機關及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關會同財政部定制"},{"start":7958.56,"end":7968.56,"text":"文人大事保等44人提案第九條為鼓勵高階專業人員及技術投資人參與無人載具公司之經營及研究發展並分享營運成果"},{"start":7968.56,"end":7977.56,"text":"無人載具公司高階專業人員因講求及技術投資人因技術入股而取得之新發行股票"},{"start":7977.56,"end":7982.56,"text":"得選擇免以紀錄取得股票當年度因課稅所得而課稅"},{"start":7982.56,"end":7988.56,"text":"已經決定不得並更但選擇免以紀錄取得股票當年度課稅者該股票於實際"},{"start":7989.47,"end":7997.47,"text":"轉讓或帳簿劃撥制開設至有價證券保管劃撥帳戶時應將全部轉讓價格或撥轉日支施加"},{"start":7997.47,"end":8004.47,"text":"作為該轉讓或撥轉年度之收益依所得稅法規定計算所得並申報課徵所得稅"},{"start":8005.21,"end":8020.21,"text":"高階專業人員或個人技術投資人因前項規定選擇免以紀錄取得股票當年度課稅自取得股票日起持有股票且繼續與該公司任職或提供技術應用相關服務累計達兩年者"},{"start":8020.21,"end":8030.21,"text":"於實際轉讓或帳簿劃撥制開設至有價證券保管劃撥帳戶時其全部轉讓價格高於股票取得之施加或價格者"},{"start":8030.21,"end":8038.21,"text":"以股票取得之施加或價格作為該轉讓或撥轉年度之收益依所得稅法規定計算所得並申報課徵所得稅"},{"start":8038.21,"end":8047.21,"text":"第一項所稱高階專業人員只具備無人載具相關專業或技術且擔任無人載具公司執行長或經理人以上職務職員員"},{"start":8047.21,"end":8053.21,"text":"所徵技術投資人只與無人載具公司所需技術體操出資資技術入股投資人"},{"start":8053.21,"end":8057.21,"text":"無人載具公司與高階專業人員或技術投資人取得股票年度"},{"start":8057.21,"end":8064.21,"text":"因規定格式及文件之要送請主管機關認定使得適用第一項及第二項之獎勵"},{"start":8064.21,"end":8068.21,"text":"其認定結果並複製公司所在地資稅間積增機關"},{"start":8068.21,"end":8076.21,"text":"第三項所訂無人載具相關專業或技術範圍送請認定期限與程序及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關訂資"},{"start":8076.21,"end":8081.21,"text":"高階專業人員技術投資人取得股票緩刻與所得稅申報之程序"},{"start":8081.21,"end":8085.21,"text":"因提示文件資料及其他相關事項之辦法由財政部訂資"},{"start":8085.21,"end":8088.21,"text":"委員大事保等事事人提案第十條"},{"start":8088.21,"end":8094.21,"text":"無人載具公司經董事會以董事三分之二以上之出席及出席董事過半數同意之決議"},{"start":8094.21,"end":8098.21,"text":"並經主管機關核准後得發行認股權證設定"},{"start":8100.27,"end":8101.27,"text":"認股權證設定"},{"start":8102.68,"end":8106.68,"text":"認股權評證與前條之高階專業人員或技術投資人"},{"start":8106.68,"end":8115.68,"text":"依前項規定持有認股權證認股權評證者得以約定價格認購特定數量之股份其認購價格不得受供"},{"start":8116.58,"end":8124.58,"text":"公司法第140條不得第一票面金額之限制文載具公司依前條第一項規定發行新股時不適用公司法"},{"start":8124.58,"end":8133.58,"text":"200267條規定高階專業人員或技術投資人持有認股認股權評證其認購取得股票之所得稅"},{"start":8133.58,"end":8140.58,"text":"課徵及相關申報事項適用前條各項規定依第一項規定申請主管機關核准發行認股權評證"},{"start":8140.58,"end":8146.58,"text":"要件文件及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關定制文代事保等事事人提案第11條"},{"start":8146.58,"end":8153.58,"text":"以其他法令享有租稅優惠者不得就同意事項重複享有本條例所訂制租稅優惠文載具公司"},{"start":8153.58,"end":8160.58,"text":"最近三年因違反環境保護勞工資通安全或飛航安全相關法律且情質也重大"},{"start":8160.58,"end":8165.58,"text":"經過中央目的事業主管機關認定者不得依第五條及第六條規定申請租稅優惠"},{"start":8165.58,"end":8171.58,"text":"並停止及追回違章行為所屬年度依前開規定申請所獲得的租稅優惠"},{"start":8171.58,"end":8177.58,"text":"依前項規定應停止及追回租稅優惠者財政部因停止或追回之處分確定後"},{"start":8177.58,"end":8182.58,"text":"預計網站公開該無人載具公司之名稱文代事保等事事人提案第12條"},{"start":8182.58,"end":8188.58,"text":"新創製無人載具公司其主要技術提供者為公立專科以上學校或公立研究機關"},{"start":8188.58,"end":8198.58,"text":"公立研究機關購研究人員者不受教育人員任用條例第34條公務人員服務法第14條第一項不得經營商業股本總額10%"},{"start":8198.58,"end":8206.58,"text":"第二項及第15條兼任他項業務制限制為應遵守公職人員利益衝突迴避法相關規定"},{"start":8207.66,"end":8216.66,"text":"前項所稱新創製無人載具公司只至設立登記登記日期未滿8年者第一項公立專科以上學校或公立研究機關購"},{"start":8216.66,"end":8229.66,"text":"從事研究人員之認定得兼任職得兼任職務與數額技術作價投資比例之限制經營商業之資訊公開利益迴避監督管理查核及其他應遵循事項之辦法"},{"start":8229.66,"end":8237.66,"text":"由行政院會同考試定制文大事保的44人提案第13條為提升無人載具技術加強場觀學合"},{"start":8238.25,"end":8251.25,"text":"合作研究發展出現無人載具產業升級公立專科以上學校或公立研究機關購置研發人員經學校或該機關購同意得到無人載具公司"},{"start":8252.04,"end":8260.04,"text":"研發諮詢委員或顧問委員大事保等44人提案第18條高階專業人員或技術投資人員第9條第1項第10條第4項規定"},{"start":8261.47,"end":8271.47,"text":"選擇名義紀錄取得股票當年度課稅者無人載具公司應與股東轉讓或辦理帳簿劃撥年度之次年度1月31日以前"},{"start":8271.47,"end":8282.47,"text":"依規定格式向該管稅金激增機關列單申報該已轉讓或辦理帳簿劃撥之股份資料其未一現或未具實申報者稅金激增機關除現期"},{"start":8283.24,"end":8293.24,"text":"責令不報外案其因申報或短期之所得金額主無人載具公司負責人10%之罰還但最高不得超過新台幣50萬元最低不得低於新台幣5萬元"},{"start":8294.48,"end":8296.48,"text":"與其自動申報者減半處罰"},{"start":8298.16,"end":8314.16,"text":"無人載具公司經稅金激增機關現期責令不報藉其未補報者按其因申報或短期之所得金額主無人載具公司負責人15%之罰還但最高不得超過新台幣100萬元最低不得少於新台幣10萬元"},{"start":8314.16,"end":8323.16,"text":"本來是法等43年提案第5條主管機關辦理本條例鎖定採購應與採購企業中訂定技術移轉及工業合作條款及工業合作"},{"start":8324.38,"end":8327.38,"text":"價值不得低於各該採購企業金額之40%"},{"start":8328.25,"end":8331.25,"text":"前向技術移轉及工業合作應以建立下列能量為目標"},{"start":8331.25,"end":8336.25,"text":"1.關鍵次系統之國內產製及自主維修包括光電與雷達感測器"},{"start":8336.25,"end":8338.25,"text":"衛星與資料鏈"},{"start":8338.25,"end":8340.25,"text":"飛行控制與自主導航軟體"},{"start":8340.25,"end":8343.25,"text":"人工智慧目標辨識及抗干擾"},{"start":8343.25,"end":8345.25,"text":"抗衛星定位七變模組"},{"start":8345.25,"end":8349.25,"text":"2.國內共同生產組裝整合測試及後級維修能量"},{"start":8349.25,"end":8352.25,"text":"3.供應鏈非紅化及自動安全排除"},{"start":8352.25,"end":8355.25,"text":"含有後門或二一模組織關鍵型組件"},{"start":8355.25,"end":8358.25,"text":"主管集團應會同經濟部國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":8358.25,"end":8362.25,"text":"協調國家中商科學研究院相關法人及國內廠商"},{"start":8362.25,"end":8367.25,"text":"建立技術接收消化及產業化機制並培育相關人才"},{"start":8367.25,"end":8370.25,"text":"本條例所需經費應提撥不低於30%"},{"start":8370.25,"end":8375.25,"text":"專攻前三項技術移轉、接收、產業化及維修能量建立之用"},{"start":8375.25,"end":8377.25,"text":"委員張家斌等於11人提案"},{"start":8377.25,"end":8381.25,"text":"以本條例之得標廠商及設有租稅補助或政策優惠者"},{"start":8382.41,"end":8386.41,"text":"因落實生產過程之自動安全管控提供或生產之無人載具中"},{"start":8386.41,"end":8393.41,"text":"凡具備聯網資訊、資料運用、運算處理、電子控制、電力驅動或感測功能等"},{"start":8393.41,"end":8398.41,"text":"具自動安全疑慮之軟硬體、零組件及雲端資料運算服務"},{"start":8398.41,"end":8403.41,"text":"延續使用大陸地區產製或大陸地區廠牌之產品"},{"start":8403.41,"end":8406.41,"text":"亦不得由大陸地區人民、法人、團體或其他機構"},{"start":8406.41,"end":8410.41,"text":"所投資或具有實質控制權制器而提供"},{"start":8410.41,"end":8417.41,"text":"前項規定以此外,屬非電子無通信聯網功能且無自動安全疑慮之基礎機構件"},{"start":8418,"end":8423,"text":"載具外殼或五金構件經文匯或主管機關審查確認國家安全風險者"},{"start":8423,"end":8426,"text":"得不受前項規定之限制"},{"start":8426.88,"end":8432.88,"text":"前項規定零組件之項目清單認定基準審查程序及其他因遵循事項之辦法"},{"start":8432.88,"end":8434.88,"text":"由委員會、會商相關機關訂資"},{"start":8434.88,"end":8438.88,"text":"委員會定義等17人提案,同委員、莊家賓等20人提案"},{"start":8438.88,"end":8441.88,"text":"委員莊家賓等20人提案第11條"},{"start":8441.88,"end":8444.88,"text":"委員會應會同交通部及相關目的事業主管機關"},{"start":8444.88,"end":8448.88,"text":"以本條例施行日期三年內建置無人載具交通"},{"start":8449.66,"end":8454.66,"text":"管理與運行監控系統以維護各類無人載具之運行秩序及公共安全"},{"start":8454.66,"end":8456.66,"text":"經公告具一定條件之無人載具"},{"start":8456.66,"end":8460.66,"text":"應具備電子識別及與前項系統連線之功能"},{"start":8460.66,"end":8463.66,"text":"並遵從交通管理及運行管制"},{"start":8463.66,"end":8466.66,"text":"無人載具未遺前項規定連線或不遵從管制者"},{"start":8466.66,"end":8470.66,"text":"文匯或場域管理及關得令期改善或暫停運行"},{"start":8470.66,"end":8471.66,"text":"致聲重大"},{"start":8473.12,"end":8476.12,"text":"安全事件時,其所有人或操作人應立即通報委員會"},{"start":8476.12,"end":8479.12,"text":"並妥善保存系統紀律與影像工查核"},{"start":8479.12,"end":8484.12,"text":"第一項系統是建置第二項電子識別連線與運行管制規範"},{"start":8484.12,"end":8488.12,"text":"前項運行暫停運行要件與通報程序及其他應遵循事項的辦法"},{"start":8488.12,"end":8492.12,"text":"由交通部會商委員會及相關目的事業主管機關訂製"},{"start":8494.28,"end":8496.28,"text":"文人王電影改詞機能提案"},{"start":8497.15,"end":8500.15,"text":"第十條通文裝置案例等二十元提案第十一條"},{"start":8500.69,"end":8503.69,"text":"文裝加冰等二十元提案第十三條"},{"start":8527.59,"end":8530.59,"text":"應會商數位發展部併同辦理資本安全檢測"},{"start":8530.59,"end":8535.59,"text":"第一項進階測試之名詞定義及前二項之許可條件審查程序"},{"start":8537.45,"end":8542.45,"text":"資安檢測基準安檢管理技術規範及其他應遵循事項的辦法"},{"start":8542.45,"end":8545.45,"text":"由委員會相關目的事業主管機關訂製"},{"start":8545.45,"end":8548.45,"text":"文人王電影等十七人提案第十二條"},{"start":8548.45,"end":8551.45,"text":"通文裝加冰等二十元提案第十三條"},{"start":8551.67,"end":8552.17,"text":"咳"},{"start":8552.89,"end":8554.89,"text":"文裝加冰等二十元提案第十五條"},{"start":8554.89,"end":8556.89,"text":"為提升政府行政效能"},{"start":8556.89,"end":8558.89,"text":"降低人員執勤風險及強化"},{"start":8558.89,"end":8562.89,"text":"災防應變衛星各級政府機關應依其應務執掌"},{"start":8562.89,"end":8565.89,"text":"積極評估並導入人採菌應用於治安尋訪"},{"start":8567.08,"end":8572.08,"text":"災難收救環境與基礎設施監測國土利用調查及其他公共事務"},{"start":8572.08,"end":8574.08,"text":"各機關應就推動情形逐年檢視盤點"},{"start":8574.08,"end":8577.08,"text":"並彙整提報文人採菌自主發展委員會"},{"start":8577.08,"end":8581.08,"text":"微弱使前項應用並充實專業操作能力"},{"start":8581.08,"end":8586.08,"text":"委員會應會統行政院人事行政總處及各目的事業主管機關"},{"start":8587.23,"end":8593.23,"text":"應將無人採菌之專業操作採購管理非常安全及自動安全防護"},{"start":8593.23,"end":8598.23,"text":"納入連度公務人員培訓計畫各級政府機關對於所屬公務人員參與"},{"start":8598.23,"end":8602.23,"text":"前項培訓並取得無人採菌專業操作證照者"},{"start":8602.23,"end":8606.23,"text":"得以得益權而獲得部分參訓費用之補助"},{"start":8606.23,"end":8610.23,"text":"各機關亦得對於推動績效優良之所屬公務人員得益公務人員考級法"},{"start":8610.23,"end":8613.23,"text":"鎖定平時考的獎勵與亦去獎"},{"start":8613.23,"end":8616.23,"text":"一第一項鎖定之年度非同計畫內容"},{"start":8616.23,"end":8618.23,"text":"逐年檢視之指標與程序及T3項"},{"start":8619.07,"end":8625.07,"text":"平和與獎勵之項目及轉機作業方式之辦法由委員會會商相關機關定制"},{"start":8625.62,"end":8627.62,"text":"委員王立宇等17人提案第14條"},{"start":8627.62,"end":8630.62,"text":"同委員鍾嘉斌等21人提案第15條"},{"start":8631.79,"end":8633.79,"text":"委員王立宇等17人提案第17條"},{"start":8633.79,"end":8635.79,"text":"施行期間屆滿前1年"},{"start":8635.79,"end":8639.79,"text":"雙組管機關應會同交通部海南委員會及相關目的事業主管機關"},{"start":8639.79,"end":8643.79,"text":"就第10條無人採菌交通管理及運行管理制度之實施"},{"start":8644.58,"end":8646.58,"text":"實施成效進行檢討"},{"start":8646.58,"end":8650.58,"text":"引領該制度納入民用航空法、傳播法或訂定專法制作業"},{"start":8650.58,"end":8653.58,"text":"與本條例施行期間屆滿前完成"},{"start":8653.58,"end":8656.58,"text":"前項法制作業與本條例施行期間屆滿前未完成者"},{"start":8657.61,"end":8660.61,"text":"第10條相關規定得繼續施行至完成之日子"},{"start":8661.32,"end":8663.32,"text":"國民黨黨團提案第20條"},{"start":8663.32,"end":8666.32,"text":"有下列行為之一者處3年以上使用以下有期徒刑"},{"start":8666.32,"end":8668.32,"text":"並得並科新台幣1000萬元以下罰金"},{"start":8668.32,"end":8670.32,"text":"1.破壞、毀損或非法侵入"},{"start":8670.32,"end":8673.32,"text":"居民供用測試場域或無人採菌生產設施"},{"start":8673.32,"end":8678.32,"text":"2.窃取或卸了無人採菌相關知機制機密技術資料"},{"start":8678.32,"end":8682.32,"text":"3.以不罰手段使無人採菌知識非控系統通訊模組"},{"start":8682.32,"end":8684.32,"text":"遭受未經授權之入侵或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謝謝經濟部"},{"start":9446.78,"end":9448.78,"text":"來 請問各位"},{"start":9448.66,"end":9450.66,"text":"委員有無意見"},{"start":9453.2,"end":9456.2,"text":"因為今天委員聯席會比較多"},{"start":9456.2,"end":9458.2,"text":"所以我們委員發言兩"},{"start":9460.14,"end":9461.14,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9461.14,"end":9463.14,"text":"謝謝昭偉 我們很簡短"},{"start":9463.14,"end":9466.14,"text":"我是建議因為版本多達14個版本"},{"start":9466.14,"end":9469.14,"text":"那本席已經經過了一番的研究"},{"start":9469.14,"end":9471.14,"text":"建議可以用這個方式來處理"},{"start":9471.14,"end":9474.14,"text":"不然的話這些條文結構不一樣"},{"start":9474.14,"end":9475.14,"text":"要一起審很難"},{"start":9475.14,"end":9477.14,"text":"它大概分成三類"},{"start":9477.14,"end":9479.14,"text":"一類就是純採購類"},{"start":9479.14,"end":9481.14,"text":"大概以行政院版為基礎"},{"start":9481.14,"end":9483.14,"text":"一類是純產業發展類"},{"start":9483.14,"end":9486.14,"text":"像民眾黨黨團 賴斯堡委員的"},{"start":9486.14,"end":9487.14,"text":"就是純產業發展"},{"start":9487.14,"end":9490.14,"text":"那另外一種是既有採購"},{"start":9490.14,"end":9492.14,"text":"也有產業發展"},{"start":9492.14,"end":9493.14,"text":"像國民黨黨團的"},{"start":9493.14,"end":9496.14,"text":"以及本席的"},{"start":9496.14,"end":9500.14,"text":"那麼還有大概就是這一類"},{"start":9500.14,"end":9502.14,"text":"那我是建議有三個"},{"start":9502.14,"end":9504.14,"text":"加一丙三種方式來處理"},{"start":9504.14,"end":9505.14,"text":"主席建議"},{"start":9505.14,"end":9507.14,"text":"一個就是"},{"start":9507.59,"end":9508.59,"text":"一類一類來"},{"start":9508.59,"end":9510.59,"text":"譬如說先處理純採購的"},{"start":9511,"end":9513,"text":"再來處理純產業發展的"},{"start":9513,"end":9516,"text":"再來處理兩種皆有的"},{"start":9516,"end":9517,"text":"這是一種方式"},{"start":9517,"end":9519,"text":"那一種就是以消去法"},{"start":9519,"end":9520,"text":"就是"},{"start":9521.14,"end":9523.14,"text":"純採購跟非純採購"},{"start":9523.14,"end":9525.14,"text":"那就分成兩類"},{"start":9525.14,"end":9527.14,"text":"純採購的就是沒有長大產業發展的"},{"start":9527.14,"end":9529.14,"text":"那綜合型的也在第二種"},{"start":9531.72,"end":9532.72,"text":"加一丙"},{"start":9532.72,"end":9533.72,"text":"丙類呢就是什麼"},{"start":9534.27,"end":9535.27,"text":"純產業發展的"},{"start":9535.27,"end":9537.27,"text":"跟非純產業發展"},{"start":9537.66,"end":9539.66,"text":"那這樣子用邏輯上來分"},{"start":9539.66,"end":9541.66,"text":"我們在審查的時候"},{"start":9541.66,"end":9544.66,"text":"才比較能夠將體力相近的都在一起"},{"start":9544.66,"end":9545.66,"text":"我再強調一次"},{"start":9545.66,"end":9548.66,"text":"這14個版本基本上有三種類型"},{"start":9549.54,"end":9550.54,"text":"純採購"},{"start":9551.21,"end":9553.21,"text":"二純產業發展"},{"start":9553.21,"end":9557.21,"text":"三採購跟產業發展兼有"},{"start":9557.21,"end":9560.21,"text":"那我們的審查方式可以分一二三類"},{"start":9560.21,"end":9561.21,"text":"就是分類審"},{"start":9561.21,"end":9563.21,"text":"那另外一種方式就是"},{"start":9563.21,"end":9566.21,"text":"採購的跟非純採購的區分開來"},{"start":9566.21,"end":9568.21,"text":"先審純採購的"},{"start":9568.21,"end":9570.21,"text":"非純採購的就另一邊"},{"start":9570.21,"end":9573.21,"text":"或者先審純產業發展的"},{"start":9573.21,"end":9575.21,"text":"那非純產業發展的通通放在一邊"},{"start":9575.21,"end":9576.21,"text":"以上建議"},{"start":9577.39,"end":9579.39,"text":"好 請揚求願望"},{"start":9580.07,"end":9582.07,"text":"謝謝揚權發言"},{"start":9582.07,"end":9584.07,"text":"我想今天大家不管"},{"start":9585.22,"end":9587.22,"text":"任何一個人都希望"},{"start":9587.09,"end":9591.09,"text":"無人機成為我們台灣的第二座的護國神山"},{"start":9591.09,"end":9596.09,"text":"我非常贊成剛剛這個經濟部所做的說明"},{"start":9596.09,"end":9597.09,"text":"他說"},{"start":9597.09,"end":9602.09,"text":"無人機產業希望是一個長期穩定的預算"},{"start":9602.09,"end":9603.09,"text":"非常重要"},{"start":9603.09,"end":9605.09,"text":"因此國民黨負責任的提出"},{"start":9605.09,"end":9610.09,"text":"國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例"},{"start":9610.09,"end":9611.09,"text":"換句話說"},{"start":9611.09,"end":9614.09,"text":"在整個採購國防的安全"},{"start":9614.09,"end":9615.09,"text":"我們全力支持"},{"start":9615.09,"end":9619.09,"text":"產業的一個發展長長久久"},{"start":9619.09,"end":9624.09,"text":"我們必須要將產業能夠成為是"},{"start":9624.84,"end":9626.84,"text":"台灣的第二座護國神山"},{"start":9626.84,"end":9627.84,"text":"這非常重要"},{"start":9627.84,"end":9629.84,"text":"尤其在我們全國地區"},{"start":9629.84,"end":9631.84,"text":"特別在中部地區"},{"start":9631.84,"end":9633.84,"text":"我們已經準備就緒"},{"start":9633.84,"end":9635.84,"text":"我們希望能夠串聯起來"},{"start":9635.84,"end":9638.84,"text":"真正成為台灣的護國神山"},{"start":9638.84,"end":9641.84,"text":"也創造了台灣的一個光榮"},{"start":9641.84,"end":9642.84,"text":"這是非常重要"},{"start":9642.84,"end":9644.84,"text":"所以我在這邊建議"},{"start":9644.84,"end":9646.84,"text":"因為國民黨的提案"},{"start":9647.94,"end":9651.94,"text":"第一條的這個按鈕"},{"start":9652.62,"end":9653.62,"text":"也就是"},{"start":9653.62,"end":9657.62,"text":"國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例"},{"start":9657.62,"end":9659.62,"text":"我們照著這個程序"},{"start":9660.48,"end":9662.48,"text":"一條一條的來做審議"},{"start":9662.48,"end":9664.48,"text":"我覺得這個是很重要的"},{"start":9664.48,"end":9668.48,"text":"而且它是國防安全以及經濟"},{"start":9669.24,"end":9672.24,"text":"的一個發展能夠兼具以上建言"},{"start":9673.17,"end":9675.17,"text":"好 接下來我們請陳冠廷委員"},{"start":9676.29,"end":9678.29,"text":"謝謝 謝謝趙委"},{"start":9678.29,"end":9682.29,"text":"其實剛才這個中交部委員講得非常認同"},{"start":9682.29,"end":9686.29,"text":"就是希望說是用採購跟非採購的這兩個方向去走"},{"start":9686.29,"end":9687.29,"text":"會比較"},{"start":9687.29,"end":9689.29,"text":"才可以把整個東西好好的審"},{"start":9689.29,"end":9691.29,"text":"我還是要再提醒各位委員"},{"start":9691.29,"end":9695.29,"text":"我們剛才楊委員有提到是長期等等的"},{"start":9695.29,"end":9696.29,"text":"我們也同意"},{"start":9696.29,"end":9697.29,"text":"但是我們同時要"},{"start":9698.25,"end":9701.25,"text":"很專注的一件事情就是他可能不是長期的威脅而已"},{"start":9701.25,"end":9703.25,"text":"他可能短期我們馬上就要面臨威脅"},{"start":9703.25,"end":9705.25,"text":"有時候短期如果是明年可能是後年"},{"start":9705.25,"end":9708.25,"text":"可能我們不知道對方會採取什麼樣的做法"},{"start":9708.25,"end":9711.25,"text":"那變成說我們現在的採購必須要因應"},{"start":9711.25,"end":9714.25,"text":"短期迫切的威脅也要做因應"},{"start":9714.25,"end":9718.25,"text":"所以用採購跟非採購這兩個方向來先去做審理"},{"start":9718.25,"end":9719.25,"text":"我會覺得會比較好"},{"start":9719.25,"end":9722.25,"text":"因為發展是為了長期面對長期的威脅"},{"start":9722.25,"end":9724.25,"text":"但我們現在看到各個的報告"},{"start":9724.25,"end":9726.25,"text":"也有可能是明年也有可能是後年"},{"start":9726.25,"end":9729.25,"text":"如果我們不具備這樣濱海作戰的能力的話"},{"start":9729.25,"end":9731.25,"text":"那等於是可能會招致他們的"},{"start":9731.25,"end":9735.25,"text":"等於是邀請他們說我們現在沒有這個能力"},{"start":9735.25,"end":9737.25,"text":"我們明年也沒有後年也沒有"},{"start":9737.25,"end":9739.25,"text":"所以這個部分請大家能夠"},{"start":9739.25,"end":9743.25,"text":"我建議是採取中嘉賓委員的這個方式來去審理"},{"start":9745.78,"end":9747.78,"text":"好謝謝接下來請邱毅委員"},{"start":9749.92,"end":9750.92,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":9750.92,"end":9752.92,"text":"我想剛剛幾位委員的發言"},{"start":9752.92,"end":9755.92,"text":"我們其實就可以非常清楚的知道"},{"start":9756.63,"end":9760.63,"text":"當時院會交下來這幾個版本"},{"start":9760.63,"end":9763.63,"text":"把它放在經濟委員會審查的荒謬性"},{"start":9763.63,"end":9765.63,"text":"到底在哪裡"},{"start":9765.9,"end":9766.9,"text":"國防的採購"},{"start":9767.92,"end":9769.92,"text":"主管機關主審單位"},{"start":9769.92,"end":9772.92,"text":"怎麼會是在經濟委員會呢"},{"start":9774.1,"end":9776.1,"text":"國防戰略的思維"},{"start":9777.17,"end":9781.17,"text":"國防的採購本來就應該在國防委員會去處理"},{"start":9781.98,"end":9783.98,"text":"那產業的發展"},{"start":9784.6,"end":9786.6,"text":"無人載具的產業發展"},{"start":9786.6,"end":9788.6,"text":"在經濟委員會"},{"start":9788.6,"end":9792.6,"text":"這個一定是無可厚非而且大家會全力的支持"},{"start":9792.97,"end":9796.97,"text":"但是你現在台灣面臨到的這個最迫切的問題"},{"start":9796.97,"end":9802.97,"text":"是國防軍事採購上面對於台灣的國防保衛上面"},{"start":9802.97,"end":9804.97,"text":"我們迫切需要的"},{"start":9805.96,"end":9807.96,"text":"這些無人載具"},{"start":9808.05,"end":9810.05,"text":"國防的採購"},{"start":9809.57,"end":9811.57,"text":"那現在這麼多的版本"},{"start":9811.57,"end":9813.57,"text":"這幾個版本"},{"start":9813.57,"end":9815.57,"text":"單單條例名稱"},{"start":9815.57,"end":9817.57,"text":"單單立法定義"},{"start":9817.57,"end":9819.57,"text":"單單阻止"},{"start":9819.57,"end":9821.57,"text":"就完全不相同"},{"start":9822.34,"end":9826.34,"text":"所以剛剛鍾嘉斌建議的這三個方向的討論"},{"start":9826.34,"end":9828.34,"text":"分開做討論"},{"start":9828.34,"end":9831.34,"text":"其實某一個程度上也代表了"},{"start":9832.76,"end":9836.76,"text":"中華民國立法院的荒謬之處"},{"start":9837.35,"end":9839.35,"text":"我當立法委員二十多年來"},{"start":9839.35,"end":9841.35,"text":"我從來沒有看過"},{"start":9841.35,"end":9843.35,"text":"國防採購條例"},{"start":9843.35,"end":9845.35,"text":"是在經濟委員會去主審"},{"start":9845.35,"end":9847.35,"text":"國防採購條例"},{"start":9847.35,"end":9849.35,"text":"跟發展條例"},{"start":9849.35,"end":9851.35,"text":"是放在一個條例裡頭去審理"},{"start":9851.35,"end":9853.35,"text":"然後我們可以看到"},{"start":9854.46,"end":9856.46,"text":"國民黨委員的版本"},{"start":9856.46,"end":9858.46,"text":"賴世保委員的提案"},{"start":9858.46,"end":9860.46,"text":"有國防戰略無人載具"},{"start":9860.46,"end":9862.46,"text":"國外採購"},{"start":9862.46,"end":9864.46,"text":"及技術合作特別條例"},{"start":9864.46,"end":9866.46,"text":"我們來請教一下"},{"start":9867.37,"end":9869.37,"text":"這個不是應該放在國防委員會去主審嗎?"},{"start":9869.37,"end":9871.37,"text":"怎麼會放在經濟委員會咧?"},{"start":9873.44,"end":9875.44,"text":"賴世保委員同時又提了一個"},{"start":9875.44,"end":9879.44,"text":"無人載具產業升級發展條例"},{"start":9881.76,"end":9883.76,"text":"所以請這個英明"},{"start":9883.76,"end":9885.76,"text":"睿智的主席"},{"start":9888.12,"end":9890.12,"text":"您一直講來自學術界"},{"start":9890.12,"end":9892.12,"text":"您一直講這個產業發展您是專業"},{"start":9893.52,"end":9895.52,"text":"就您的專業上來看"},{"start":9896.53,"end":9898.53,"text":"採購跟產業發展"},{"start":9898.53,"end":9902.53,"text":"我們要如何來審理這麼多的不同的版本"},{"start":9904.8,"end":9906.8,"text":"好我們先來請這個"},{"start":9907.94,"end":9909.94,"text":"陳田菲國人"},{"start":9910.64,"end":9912.64,"text":"太有趣了"},{"start":9912.9,"end":9914.9,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":9914.9,"end":9916.9,"text":"我想我在質詢的時候"},{"start":9916.9,"end":9918.9,"text":"其實我們講得非常清楚"},{"start":9919.82,"end":9921.82,"text":"我們無人機的產業"},{"start":9921.82,"end":9925.82,"text":"基本上早就進行當中"},{"start":9925.51,"end":9927.51,"text":"而且在全國各地"},{"start":9927.51,"end":9931.51,"text":"我們都有無人機的產業發展"},{"start":9932.24,"end":9934.24,"text":"就光就台南來講"},{"start":9934.24,"end":9936.24,"text":"我們其實都一直在推動"},{"start":9937.98,"end":9939.98,"text":"所以我認為說"},{"start":9939.98,"end":9941.98,"text":"產業發展是一個目標"},{"start":9941.98,"end":9943.98,"text":"而且現在進行式"},{"start":9945.44,"end":9947.44,"text":"我不知道為什麼現在還要去談"},{"start":9947.44,"end":9949.44,"text":"產業發展條例"},{"start":9950.9,"end":9952.9,"text":"這個早就在進行當中的"},{"start":9952.9,"end":9954.9,"text":"我們為什麼要把它"},{"start":9954.9,"end":9956.9,"text":"再拉回到原點呢"},{"start":9956.9,"end":9958.9,"text":"這個是一個很奇怪的"},{"start":9958.9,"end":9960.9,"text":"我們今天重要的"},{"start":9960.9,"end":9962.9,"text":"應該是要有一個"},{"start":9962.9,"end":9964.9,"text":"他們依循的方向"},{"start":9964.9,"end":9966.9,"text":"當他們"},{"start":9966.9,"end":9968.9,"text":"要"},{"start":9968.37,"end":9972.37,"text":"出口或是要進口相關的一些物件"},{"start":9973.75,"end":9977.75,"text":"要有一些採購特別條例的方向"},{"start":9979.07,"end":9981.07,"text":"才能讓我們所有的"},{"start":9981.07,"end":9983.07,"text":"產業發展可以"},{"start":9983.07,"end":9985.07,"text":"更邁進一步"},{"start":9985.36,"end":9987.36,"text":"這是完全不同的"},{"start":9987.36,"end":9989.36,"text":"可是今天"},{"start":9989.36,"end":9991.36,"text":"把"},{"start":9989.72,"end":9991.72,"text":"產業發展條例"},{"start":9991.72,"end":9993.72,"text":"跟採購特別條例"},{"start":9993.72,"end":9995.72,"text":"放在一起"},{"start":9995.5,"end":9997.5,"text":"我不知道這怎麼審"},{"start":9997.6,"end":9999.6,"text":"因為特別條例的方向"},{"start":10000.41,"end":10002.41,"text":"跟"},{"start":10002.35,"end":10004.35,"text":"採購"},{"start":10003.87,"end":10005.87,"text":"特別條例跟產業發展條例"},{"start":10005.87,"end":10007.87,"text":"這個是完全不同的"},{"start":10009.81,"end":10011.81,"text":"所以我真的拜託說"},{"start":10012.51,"end":10014.51,"text":"我們如果為了無人機的發展好"},{"start":10016.68,"end":10018.68,"text":"為了我們所有國防自主方向"},{"start":10018.68,"end":10020.68,"text":"有一個好的依據"},{"start":10024.09,"end":10026.09,"text":"我們應該是要把它"},{"start":10026.09,"end":10028.09,"text":"分開"},{"start":10028.09,"end":10030.09,"text":"好好地審慎處理"},{"start":10030.09,"end":10032.09,"text":"尤其國防自主"},{"start":10032.09,"end":10034.09,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":10034.09,"end":10036.09,"text":"採購特別條例"},{"start":10036.09,"end":10038.09,"text":"這個部分是攸關我們"},{"start":10038.09,"end":10040.09,"text":"未來國家國防"},{"start":10040.09,"end":10042.09,"text":"還有我們"},{"start":10042.09,"end":10044.09,"text":"無人機的一個進一步"},{"start":10044.09,"end":10046.09,"text":"發展非常重要的"},{"start":10046.09,"end":10048.09,"text":"一個階段"},{"start":10048.09,"end":10050.09,"text":"真的不能做這樣子"},{"start":10050.06,"end":10052.06,"text":"所謂的"},{"start":10052.06,"end":10054.06,"text":"含糊不明"},{"start":10053.15,"end":10055.15,"text":"然後"},{"start":10055.15,"end":10057.15,"text":"不吃"},{"start":10055.65,"end":10057.65,"text":"如何去定位"},{"start":10057.65,"end":10059.65,"text":"我們的一個方向"},{"start":10061.15,"end":10063.15,"text":"我們立法院不應該做這麼潮汕"},{"start":10063.15,"end":10065.15,"text":"而且"},{"start":10065.15,"end":10067.15,"text":"這麼樣讓大家"},{"start":10067.15,"end":10069.15,"text":"無所適從的"},{"start":10069.15,"end":10071.15,"text":"一個處理"},{"start":10071.15,"end":10073.15,"text":"甚至讓所有的行政單位"},{"start":10073.15,"end":10075.15,"text":"覺得莫名其妙"},{"start":10075.15,"end":10077.15,"text":"甚至所有"},{"start":10077.15,"end":10079.15,"text":"國家的發展"},{"start":10079.15,"end":10081.15,"text":"也面臨一個莫名"},{"start":10081.15,"end":10083.15,"text":"奇妙的狀況"},{"start":10083.15,"end":10085.15,"text":"所以我們拜託主席"},{"start":10085.15,"end":10087.15,"text":"我們要身兼一個國家"},{"start":10087.15,"end":10089.15,"text":"未來發展非常"},{"start":10089.15,"end":10091.15,"text":"重要的責任"},{"start":10091.15,"end":10093.15,"text":"立法委員不應該"},{"start":10093.15,"end":10095.15,"text":"如此潮汕"},{"start":10095.15,"end":10097.15,"text":"面臨我們國家的發展"},{"start":10098.19,"end":10100.19,"text":"好 接下來我們請這個林楚英委員"},{"start":10100.19,"end":10102.19,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10102.42,"end":10104.42,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":10104.42,"end":10106.42,"text":"我想其實我在質詢的時候也有講過"},{"start":10106.42,"end":10108.42,"text":"為什麼我們現在會審這個"},{"start":10108.42,"end":10110.42,"text":"無人載具的相關的"},{"start":10110.42,"end":10112.42,"text":"採購 那是因為在"},{"start":10112.42,"end":10114.42,"text":"1.25兆的國防特別預算當中"},{"start":10114.42,"end":10116.42,"text":"整個無人機的採購"},{"start":10116.42,"end":10118.42,"text":"整個被砍掉了4700億"},{"start":10118.42,"end":10120.42,"text":"當時我相信"},{"start":10120.42,"end":10122.42,"text":"在野黨的委員也承受了非常大的"},{"start":10122.42,"end":10124.42,"text":"壓力 因為民眾是認為"},{"start":10124.42,"end":10126.42,"text":"這個採購其實必須留下來的"},{"start":10126.42,"end":10128.42,"text":"不應該全部砍掉"},{"start":10128.42,"end":10130.42,"text":"這也是為什麼後來"},{"start":10130.42,"end":10132.42,"text":"包括我相信國民黨民眾黨的"},{"start":10132.42,"end":10134.42,"text":"委員也都相繼提出了"},{"start":10134.42,"end":10136.42,"text":"版本希望能夠發展無人"},{"start":10136.42,"end":10138.42,"text":"載具 如果是這樣的狀況底下"},{"start":10138.42,"end":10140.42,"text":"的話真的就如同前面"},{"start":10140.42,"end":10142.42,"text":"民進黨的幾位委員所說的"},{"start":10142.42,"end":10144.42,"text":"第一個是當務之急的國防"},{"start":10144.42,"end":10146.42,"text":"採購 我們其實必須要強化"},{"start":10146.42,"end":10148.42,"text":"因為無人載具"},{"start":10148.42,"end":10150.42,"text":"在現在的靜態戰爭當中"},{"start":10150.42,"end":10152.42,"text":"真的就是像台灣這種"},{"start":10152.42,"end":10154.42,"text":"需要以小搏大非常"},{"start":10154.42,"end":10156.42,"text":"重要 甚至於連大國"},{"start":10156.42,"end":10158.42,"text":"在第一線也都是透過"},{"start":10158.42,"end":10160.42,"text":"無人載具當做第一線"},{"start":10160.42,"end":10162.42,"text":"去做不論是防衛或者是"},{"start":10162.42,"end":10164.42,"text":"整個國家的"},{"start":10164.42,"end":10166.42,"text":"自主提升的部分"},{"start":10166.42,"end":10168.42,"text":"那至於產業的發展"},{"start":10168.42,"end":10170.42,"text":"我想其實不只是台南啦"},{"start":10170.42,"end":10172.42,"text":"包括桃園 包括宜蘭"},{"start":10172.42,"end":10174.42,"text":"其實現在全國的各個縣市"},{"start":10174.42,"end":10176.42,"text":"都有超過275家的"},{"start":10176.42,"end":10178.42,"text":"廠商他們已經在做"},{"start":10178.42,"end":10180.42,"text":"無人載具的發展"},{"start":10180.42,"end":10182.42,"text":"而發展的過程中需要的"},{"start":10182.42,"end":10184.42,"text":"當然就是穩定的訂單"},{"start":10184.42,"end":10186.42,"text":"以及政府的需求 那麼在國內"},{"start":10186.42,"end":10188.42,"text":"產業的部分 怎麼樣提供穩定的"},{"start":10188.42,"end":10190.42,"text":"訂單跟需求"},{"start":10190.42,"end":10192.42,"text":"那當然就是產業發展非常重要的一環"},{"start":10192.42,"end":10194.42,"text":"所以我還是認同就是"},{"start":10194.42,"end":10196.42,"text":"急需的採購"},{"start":10196.42,"end":10198.42,"text":"應該要符合國防部的需求"},{"start":10198.42,"end":10200.42,"text":"我們現在應該趕快來分"},{"start":10200.42,"end":10202.42,"text":"這個部分來審下去 那麼至於"},{"start":10202.42,"end":10204.42,"text":"產業的發展 我相信沒有人"},{"start":10204.42,"end":10206.42,"text":"敢說無人艇 無人艦"},{"start":10206.42,"end":10208.42,"text":"無人機不重要"},{"start":10208.42,"end":10210.42,"text":"那麼在如何獲得"},{"start":10210.42,"end":10212.42,"text":"國防上面的需求"},{"start":10212.42,"end":10214.42,"text":"以及未來前進無人"},{"start":10214.42,"end":10216.42,"text":"的所無人載具當中的"},{"start":10216.42,"end":10218.42,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈 台灣不能錯失"},{"start":10218.42,"end":10220.42,"text":"那如何加入飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":10220.42,"end":10222.42,"text":"我想這個國防的"},{"start":10222.42,"end":10224.42,"text":"需求一定是國防部需要"},{"start":10224.42,"end":10226.42,"text":"那麼經濟部就是給予協助"},{"start":10226.42,"end":10228.42,"text":"所以我也認同 採購"},{"start":10228.42,"end":10230.42,"text":"跟產業發展就是應該要分開來審"},{"start":10230.42,"end":10232.42,"text":"我們今天才可能有進度"},{"start":10233.8,"end":10235.8,"text":"好 接下來我們請賴世保委員"},{"start":10235.8,"end":10237.8,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10238.64,"end":10240.64,"text":"謝謝主席 各位先進"},{"start":10241.3,"end":10243.3,"text":"這個我們到底是現在是要"},{"start":10243.3,"end":10245.3,"text":"要暗示趕快審"},{"start":10245.3,"end":10247.3,"text":"還是說一直在這裡扯來扯去"},{"start":10247.3,"end":10249.3,"text":"一直罵戰野黨 罵我的版本"},{"start":10249.3,"end":10251.3,"text":"只要戰野黨版本一直罵"},{"start":10251.3,"end":10253.3,"text":"罵有什麼意義呢 請問各位"},{"start":10253.3,"end":10255.3,"text":"我們希望這個版本趕快往前走"},{"start":10256.36,"end":10258.36,"text":"對不對 趕快往前走"},{"start":10258.36,"end":10260.36,"text":"不要忘了"},{"start":10260.36,"end":10262.36,"text":"這是院會交辦"},{"start":10262.36,"end":10264.36,"text":"下來的 我們講了"},{"start":10264.36,"end":10266.36,"text":"半天沒辦法推翻院會"},{"start":10266.36,"end":10268.36,"text":"委員會不能推翻院會"},{"start":10268.36,"end":10270.36,"text":"院會最大"},{"start":10270.36,"end":10272.36,"text":"院會就通過了就是"},{"start":10272.36,"end":10274.36,"text":"經濟委員會主審"},{"start":10274.36,"end":10276.36,"text":"你口口揮一揮說國防要來"},{"start":10276.36,"end":10278.36,"text":"拿 要不要重新提案"},{"start":10278.36,"end":10280.36,"text":"一直拖"},{"start":10280.42,"end":10282.42,"text":"對不對 不要"},{"start":10282.42,"end":10284.42,"text":"一直在扯這個東西"},{"start":10284.42,"end":10286.42,"text":"我們現在就來審第一條"},{"start":10286.42,"end":10288.42,"text":"就是法案名稱 這樣子"},{"start":10288.42,"end":10290.42,"text":"大家是不是同意 不同意就保留"},{"start":10290.42,"end":10292.42,"text":"就處理 還是要標管都沒關係"},{"start":10293.99,"end":10295.99,"text":"不要一直扯"},{"start":10295.99,"end":10297.99,"text":"然後就說 啊這就是這樣斷了"},{"start":10297.99,"end":10299.99,"text":"請問經濟部"},{"start":10299.99,"end":10301.99,"text":"有沒有無人機產業發展條例"},{"start":10301.99,"end":10303.99,"text":"沒有啊 不要隨便講啊"},{"start":10303.99,"end":10305.99,"text":"沒有 根本就沒有"},{"start":10305.99,"end":10307.99,"text":"沒有無人機產業技術"},{"start":10307.99,"end":10309.99,"text":"升級發展條例"},{"start":10309.99,"end":10311.99,"text":"沒有這樣的法案"},{"start":10311.99,"end":10313.99,"text":"不要隨便講"},{"start":10313.99,"end":10315.99,"text":"我提交的什麼不對"},{"start":10316.11,"end":10318.11,"text":"我提的就是希望"},{"start":10318.11,"end":10320.11,"text":"無人機產業技術"},{"start":10320.11,"end":10322.11,"text":"升級再 升級然後"},{"start":10322.11,"end":10324.11,"text":"深耕在台灣 包括"},{"start":10324.11,"end":10326.11,"text":"我們希望國外的廠商來台灣設廠"},{"start":10327.5,"end":10329.5,"text":"任何國外的 先進的無人機"},{"start":10329.5,"end":10331.5,"text":"無人艇 無人載具的"},{"start":10331.5,"end":10333.5,"text":"技術 能夠"},{"start":10333.5,"end":10335.5,"text":"移到台灣 投資台灣"},{"start":10336.34,"end":10338.34,"text":"我們都給他 租車的減免"},{"start":10338.34,"end":10340.34,"text":"人才方面 什麼資源"},{"start":10340.34,"end":10342.34,"text":"等等的 比照升級條例"},{"start":10342.34,"end":10344.34,"text":"給他這樣的東西 這是什麼不對"},{"start":10344.34,"end":10346.34,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":10346.34,"end":10348.34,"text":"今天洪"},{"start":10348.34,"end":10350.34,"text":"洪委員當召委"},{"start":10350.34,"end":10352.34,"text":"他主持的案子"},{"start":10352.34,"end":10354.34,"text":"是有憑有據 院會"},{"start":10354.34,"end":10356.34,"text":"交下來 你再扯那些"},{"start":10356.34,"end":10358.34,"text":"一直說啊這個不應該在這裡審"},{"start":10358.34,"end":10360.34,"text":"我們今天是要趕快給他審"},{"start":10360.34,"end":10362.34,"text":"第一條"},{"start":10362.34,"end":10364.34,"text":"我們要法案名稱"},{"start":10364.34,"end":10366.34,"text":"到底各位是不是同意"},{"start":10366.34,"end":10368.34,"text":"這個行政院的"},{"start":10368.34,"end":10370.34,"text":"那我"},{"start":10369.81,"end":10371.81,"text":"這個發展無人機沒有人反對"},{"start":10371.81,"end":10373.81,"text":"發展無人載具沒有人反對"},{"start":10373.81,"end":10375.81,"text":"但是我們反對特別一算"},{"start":10376.39,"end":10378.39,"text":"我們要編代年度一算"},{"start":10378.39,"end":10380.39,"text":"就是這樣 差別在這裡"},{"start":10380.39,"end":10382.39,"text":"所以國民黨團的"},{"start":10382.39,"end":10384.39,"text":"這個科技發展"},{"start":10384.39,"end":10386.39,"text":"採購條例也可以"},{"start":10386.39,"end":10388.39,"text":"我這個都可以 這麼多版本"},{"start":10388.39,"end":10390.39,"text":"看大家怎麼整合 我覺得"},{"start":10390.39,"end":10392.39,"text":"與其在這裡一直檢討"},{"start":10392.39,"end":10394.39,"text":"上個禮拜通過"},{"start":10394.39,"end":10396.39,"text":"上上禮拜通過的"},{"start":10396.4,"end":10398.4,"text":"這個我們院會交辦下來的"},{"start":10398.4,"end":10400.4,"text":"請各位你怎麼去否決他呢"},{"start":10400.4,"end":10402.4,"text":"你怎麼否決我們主席"},{"start":10402.4,"end":10404.4,"text":"洪主席的洪召委"},{"start":10404.4,"end":10406.4,"text":"他的法定地位"},{"start":10406.4,"end":10408.4,"text":"他現在就是"},{"start":10408.4,"end":10410.4,"text":"這個案子你們到底"},{"start":10410.4,"end":10412.4,"text":"又不要嗎"},{"start":10412.18,"end":10414.18,"text":"我們都要啊"},{"start":10414.18,"end":10416.18,"text":"你們不要是假裝"},{"start":10416.18,"end":10418.18,"text":"表面上要事實上不要"},{"start":10418.18,"end":10420.18,"text":"一定來鬥爭而已 這個有什麼好鬥爭的"},{"start":10420.18,"end":10422.18,"text":"就是你們兩千一 我們兩千四"},{"start":10422.18,"end":10424.18,"text":"給你 我們外加五百都給你"},{"start":10424.18,"end":10426.18,"text":"這麼快審 這麼快給他過法"},{"start":10426.18,"end":10428.18,"text":"不是這樣子嗎"},{"start":10428.18,"end":10430.18,"text":"你會再一定要說"},{"start":10430.18,"end":10432.18,"text":"一定要拿回國防委員會"},{"start":10432.18,"end":10434.18,"text":"你再重新來喔 時間拖的喔"},{"start":10434.18,"end":10436.18,"text":"八月底不會刪喔"},{"start":10436.31,"end":10438.31,"text":"即便像中"},{"start":10438.31,"end":10440.31,"text":"這個有中務委員講的"},{"start":10440.31,"end":10442.31,"text":"這個有中間秘委員講的"},{"start":10442.31,"end":10444.31,"text":"說什麼今天出去 下個月八月底一千"},{"start":10445.19,"end":10447.19,"text":"如果按照這個行程 也很好啊"},{"start":10447.19,"end":10449.19,"text":"有什麼不好"},{"start":10448.63,"end":10450.63,"text":"也很好啊"},{"start":10450.25,"end":10452.25,"text":"各位你可以想一想 趕快出去"},{"start":10452.25,"end":10454.25,"text":"趕快有錢 國防部長"},{"start":10454.25,"end":10456.25,"text":"難道你反對嗎 趕快給你錢"},{"start":10456.25,"end":10458.25,"text":"你去反對嗎 一定要特別調理"},{"start":10458.25,"end":10460.25,"text":"為什麼 是因為"},{"start":10460.25,"end":10462.25,"text":"事先都已經想好了"},{"start":10462.25,"end":10464.25,"text":"還怎麼樣 為什麼就一定要"},{"start":10464.25,"end":10466.25,"text":"特別調理"},{"start":10465.83,"end":10467.83,"text":"我去美國的時候"},{"start":10468.07,"end":10470.07,"text":"美國的相關團隊"},{"start":10470.07,"end":10472.07,"text":"去要怎樣 清清楚楚 只要邊國預算"},{"start":10472.95,"end":10474.95,"text":"特別預算 或者是一般預算"},{"start":10474.95,"end":10476.95,"text":"他們不聽啊"},{"start":10477.36,"end":10479.36,"text":"主席都可以作證 他在場"},{"start":10479.36,"end":10481.36,"text":"他都有聽到"},{"start":10480.8,"end":10482.8,"text":"我們的揚權務委員也一起都有聽到"},{"start":10483.96,"end":10485.96,"text":"人家不會再用你特別預算"},{"start":10485.96,"end":10487.96,"text":"還是這個一般預算"},{"start":10487.96,"end":10489.96,"text":"現在來講"},{"start":10489.96,"end":10491.96,"text":"執政黨的委員只卡在一直在糾結兩件事情"},{"start":10491.96,"end":10493.96,"text":"第一個 一定要國防委員會審"},{"start":10495.36,"end":10497.36,"text":"就院會叫下來了"},{"start":10497.36,"end":10499.36,"text":"第二個 一定要特別預算"},{"start":10499.36,"end":10501.36,"text":"國防部長一定要特別預算"},{"start":10501.36,"end":10503.36,"text":"美國都說一般預算都可以"},{"start":10503.36,"end":10505.36,"text":"只要民主預算"},{"start":10505.36,"end":10507.36,"text":"比較快"},{"start":10506.82,"end":10508.82,"text":"我沒有出錯 卡定了"},{"start":10508.64,"end":10510.64,"text":"卡定了這個案子給他過"},{"start":10510.64,"end":10512.64,"text":"就可以便利算了"},{"start":10512,"end":10514,"text":"好 謝一鳳委員"},{"start":10514,"end":10516,"text":"兩分鐘好 拜託"},{"start":10515.71,"end":10521.71,"text":"其實大家都沒有反對無人載具的相關條例"},{"start":10521.71,"end":10523.71,"text":"我看了就是說所有黨團的意見"},{"start":10523.71,"end":10527.71,"text":"那當然個別委員以及黨團的版本"},{"start":10527.71,"end":10529.71,"text":"從名稱開始"},{"start":10529.71,"end":10531.71,"text":"就有一點非常分歧"},{"start":10531.71,"end":10533.71,"text":"那這樣子的"},{"start":10533.71,"end":10535.71,"text":"就是說如果大家都希望說"},{"start":10535.71,"end":10537.71,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":10537.71,"end":10539.71,"text":"這個對不管是我們的國防"},{"start":10539.71,"end":10543.71,"text":"以及產業都有共同的幫助的話"},{"start":10543.71,"end":10547.71,"text":"那我覺得是不是應該要儘速的在今天通過"},{"start":10547.71,"end":10549.71,"text":"就是說如果大家有歧義的話"},{"start":10549.71,"end":10551.71,"text":"我們是不是就保留"},{"start":10551.71,"end":10553.71,"text":"然後等到就是說"},{"start":10553.71,"end":10555.71,"text":"讓那個案子出委員會"},{"start":10555.71,"end":10557.71,"text":"讓我們可以進一步的"},{"start":10557.71,"end":10559.71,"text":"有進展"},{"start":10559.71,"end":10561.71,"text":"不要再退回"},{"start":10561.71,"end":10563.71,"text":"因為如果退回對於整體的時間"},{"start":10563.71,"end":10567.71,"text":"院會有延宕的這樣子的情況"},{"start":10567.71,"end":10571.71,"text":"那是不是為了讓我們整體的產業發展以及國防都有保障"},{"start":10571.71,"end":10573.71,"text":"是不是能夠儘速的"},{"start":10573.71,"end":10575.71,"text":"能夠在今日"},{"start":10575.71,"end":10577.71,"text":"然後能夠出委員會"},{"start":10579.67,"end":10581.67,"text":"喔 那個"},{"start":10581.67,"end":10583.67,"text":"第二輪發言再簡短一點"},{"start":10583.67,"end":10585.67,"text":"可以嗎 好啦 莊嘉賓"},{"start":10585.67,"end":10587.67,"text":"然後再來是陳廷飛再邱毅"},{"start":10587.67,"end":10589.67,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10589.67,"end":10591.67,"text":"我們可以看條文對照表"},{"start":10591.67,"end":10593.67,"text":"請賴市長委員看看第十頁"},{"start":10593.67,"end":10595.67,"text":"你的版本"},{"start":10595.67,"end":10597.67,"text":"第六條"},{"start":10597.67,"end":10599.67,"text":"本條例所需經費上限 信貸幣500億"},{"start":10599.67,"end":10601.67,"text":"以特別預算方式編列"},{"start":10601.67,"end":10603.67,"text":"這個應該不是AI寫的啦"},{"start":10603.67,"end":10605.67,"text":"應該是賴委員自己起草的"},{"start":10605.67,"end":10607.67,"text":"他可能一直忘掉了"},{"start":10607.67,"end":10609.67,"text":"那我想我剛剛一直坐在這裡"},{"start":10609.67,"end":10611.67,"text":"我覺得每個發言的委員都很持平"},{"start":10611.67,"end":10613.67,"text":"並沒有什麼在亂講"},{"start":10613.67,"end":10615.67,"text":"我想這個大家都互相尊重"},{"start":10615.67,"end":10617.67,"text":"那我再強調一次"},{"start":10617.67,"end":10619.67,"text":"如果說我剛剛講的以A案來講"},{"start":10619.67,"end":10621.67,"text":"先審純採購"},{"start":10621.67,"end":10623.67,"text":"再審非純採購"},{"start":10623.67,"end":10625.67,"text":"那純採購的有九個版本"},{"start":10625.67,"end":10627.67,"text":"賴委員的版本也在這九個版本裡面"},{"start":10627.67,"end":10629.67,"text":"非純採購的有五個版本"},{"start":10629.67,"end":10631.67,"text":"賴委員也有一個版本"},{"start":10631.67,"end":10633.67,"text":"在這五個版本裡面"},{"start":10633.67,"end":10635.67,"text":"如果你要用純 先審純產業發展"},{"start":10635.67,"end":10637.67,"text":"如果要用純 先審純產業發展"},{"start":10637.67,"end":10639.67,"text":"純產發的就兩個版本"},{"start":10639.67,"end":10641.67,"text":"一個是民眾黨的版本"},{"start":10641.67,"end":10643.67,"text":"一個是賴事保委員的版本"},{"start":10643.67,"end":10645.67,"text":"非純產業發展的有十二個版本"},{"start":10645.53,"end":10647.53,"text":"那至於如果要不複雜一點"},{"start":10647.53,"end":10649.53,"text":"採取C案 那麼純採購的九案"},{"start":10650.95,"end":10652.95,"text":"純產業發展的兩案"},{"start":10652.95,"end":10654.95,"text":"混合型的三案"},{"start":10655.02,"end":10657.02,"text":"那個 周圍的主席"},{"start":10657.02,"end":10659.02,"text":"我在給你建議啦 就是說"},{"start":10659.02,"end":10661.02,"text":"你們要有一個方法嘛"},{"start":10661.02,"end":10663.02,"text":"你要用A案 B案"},{"start":10663.02,"end":10665.02,"text":"還是C案 要先審純採購"},{"start":10665.02,"end":10667.02,"text":"再審非純採購 還是要先審"},{"start":10667.02,"end":10669.02,"text":"純產業發展再審非純產業發展"},{"start":10669.02,"end":10671.02,"text":"還是分三類"},{"start":10671.02,"end":10673.02,"text":"純產採購的一類 混合型的一類"},{"start":10673.02,"end":10675.02,"text":"純產業發展的一類"},{"start":10675.02,"end":10677.02,"text":"那不管哪一種方法 賴委員"},{"start":10677.02,"end":10679.02,"text":"都保養啦 因為不管用哪一種方法展"},{"start":10679.02,"end":10681.02,"text":"他有兩個版本啦"},{"start":10681.02,"end":10683.02,"text":"都可以審啦"},{"start":10682.76,"end":10684.76,"text":"好 再來 再聽賴委員"},{"start":10686.19,"end":10688.19,"text":"謝謝周圍"},{"start":10688.19,"end":10690.19,"text":"其實 我們要再次強調啦"},{"start":10690.19,"end":10692.19,"text":"我們今天"},{"start":10692.19,"end":10694.19,"text":"就是希望"},{"start":10694.45,"end":10696.45,"text":"無人機的整個產業"},{"start":10696.45,"end":10698.45,"text":"可以要進一步"},{"start":10698.45,"end":10700.45,"text":"這是我們大家共同的目標"},{"start":10701.68,"end":10703.68,"text":"尤其我一直強調"},{"start":10703.68,"end":10705.68,"text":"在台南的無人機產業"},{"start":10705.68,"end":10707.68,"text":"陸續發展當中"},{"start":10707.68,"end":10709.68,"text":"他們現在在擔心的"},{"start":10709.68,"end":10711.68,"text":"就是一個法令"},{"start":10711.68,"end":10713.68,"text":"在採購的部分"},{"start":10713.98,"end":10715.98,"text":"所以為什麼我一直強調"},{"start":10715.98,"end":10717.98,"text":"產業發展"},{"start":10717.98,"end":10719.98,"text":"跟採購本來"},{"start":10719.98,"end":10721.98,"text":"就是不一樣的"},{"start":10722.2,"end":10724.2,"text":"所以希望最快的速度"},{"start":10724.2,"end":10726.2,"text":"不要把這兩個"},{"start":10726.2,"end":10728.2,"text":"好像卡在"},{"start":10728.2,"end":10730.2,"text":"中間"},{"start":10730.41,"end":10732.41,"text":"這個東跟西"},{"start":10732.41,"end":10734.41,"text":"南跟北卡來卡去的"},{"start":10734.41,"end":10736.41,"text":"一個部分 造成彼此的影響"},{"start":10736.41,"end":10738.41,"text":"所以產業發展"},{"start":10738.41,"end":10740.41,"text":"現在就在做了"},{"start":10741.2,"end":10743.2,"text":"因為我們經濟委員會"},{"start":10743.2,"end":10745.2,"text":"我相信我跟易營"},{"start":10745.2,"end":10747.2,"text":"我們在經濟委員會"},{"start":10747.2,"end":10749.2,"text":"審了那麼久的預算"},{"start":10749.2,"end":10751.2,"text":"我們經濟部的無人機產業"},{"start":10751.2,"end":10753.2,"text":"所謂的推動"},{"start":10753.2,"end":10755.2,"text":"我們一直在做"},{"start":10755.2,"end":10757.2,"text":"不是沒有在做"},{"start":10757.2,"end":10759.2,"text":"那你今天在做一個"},{"start":10759.2,"end":10761.2,"text":"單純的產業發展"},{"start":10761.2,"end":10763.2,"text":"是不是就把我們整個"},{"start":10763.2,"end":10765.2,"text":"馬骨往後拉"},{"start":10765.2,"end":10767.2,"text":"這是錯的"},{"start":10767.2,"end":10769.2,"text":"我們應該要進一步"},{"start":10769.2,"end":10771.2,"text":"再加上我們的採購"},{"start":10771.2,"end":10773.2,"text":"特別條例"},{"start":10773.2,"end":10775.2,"text":"為什麼那麼急"},{"start":10775.2,"end":10777.2,"text":"很重要的"},{"start":10776.77,"end":10778.77,"text":"無人機的採購自主"},{"start":10778.77,"end":10780.77,"text":"有它一定的方向"},{"start":10780.77,"end":10782.77,"text":"所以為什麼國防部"},{"start":10782.77,"end":10784.77,"text":"它利用了那麼長的時間"},{"start":10784.77,"end":10786.77,"text":"做了討論"},{"start":10786.77,"end":10788.77,"text":"收集所有產業"},{"start":10788.77,"end":10790.77,"text":"目前被"},{"start":10790.77,"end":10792.77,"text":"這個擋住"},{"start":10792.77,"end":10794.77,"text":"然後被礙於沒辦法"},{"start":10794.77,"end":10796.77,"text":"通過的一個部分"},{"start":10796.77,"end":10798.77,"text":"所以這是兩個完全不同的"},{"start":10798.77,"end":10800.77,"text":"我們就是希望"},{"start":10800.77,"end":10802.77,"text":"趕快做"},{"start":10802.77,"end":10804.77,"text":"趕快弄 讓我們無人機"},{"start":10804.77,"end":10806.77,"text":"產業更好"},{"start":10806.77,"end":10808.77,"text":"但是"},{"start":10807.55,"end":10809.55,"text":"不是像"},{"start":10809.55,"end":10811.55,"text":"有委員說我們在拉"},{"start":10811.55,"end":10813.55,"text":"拉住進度這是錯的"},{"start":10814.47,"end":10816.47,"text":"好 確定委員"},{"start":10816.68,"end":10818.68,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":10818.68,"end":10820.68,"text":"這個我還是回應一下剛剛賴世保委員"},{"start":10820.68,"end":10822.68,"text":"我在發言的時候"},{"start":10822.68,"end":10824.68,"text":"你大概還沒有進來"},{"start":10824.68,"end":10826.68,"text":"所以你一進來就說我們亂罵"},{"start":10826.68,"end":10828.68,"text":"我們沒有否定您的提案"},{"start":10828.68,"end":10830.68,"text":"也沒有亂罵"},{"start":10830.68,"end":10832.68,"text":"我講的是說國防採購跟發展條例"},{"start":10832.68,"end":10834.68,"text":"這是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":10834.68,"end":10836.68,"text":"我談的是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":10836.68,"end":10838.68,"text":"那剛剛賴委員您特別提到說"},{"start":10838.68,"end":10840.68,"text":"你支持的"},{"start":10840.68,"end":10842.68,"text":"是用編列在一般的公務預算裡頭"},{"start":10842.68,"end":10844.68,"text":"你並不支持用特別預算"},{"start":10844.68,"end":10846.68,"text":"去編列"},{"start":10846.68,"end":10848.68,"text":"但是您自己的提案第六條"},{"start":10848.68,"end":10850.68,"text":"你就講了本條例"},{"start":10850.68,"end":10852.68,"text":"所需經費上限500億以特別預算方式編列"},{"start":10854.38,"end":10856.38,"text":"所以是提案的賴世保委員"},{"start":10856.38,"end":10858.38,"text":"打臉"},{"start":10858.38,"end":10860.38,"text":"現在發言的賴世保委員嗎"},{"start":10860.38,"end":10862.38,"text":"您的態度是不是有做"},{"start":10862.38,"end":10864.38,"text":"很大的變動我並不清楚"},{"start":10864.38,"end":10866.38,"text":"但是您的條文的確是"},{"start":10866.38,"end":10868.38,"text":"用特別預算編列"},{"start":10868.38,"end":10870.38,"text":"除非這是AI寫的"},{"start":10870.38,"end":10872.38,"text":"除非這是造謠否則白紙黑字"},{"start":10872.38,"end":10874.38,"text":"都在大家桌面上"},{"start":10874.38,"end":10876.38,"text":"第二我們必須再一次提到"},{"start":10877.97,"end":10881.97,"text":"國民黨支持放在公務預算裡頭去編列"},{"start":10881.97,"end":10883.97,"text":"但是行政院的統籌型計畫"},{"start":10883.97,"end":10885.97,"text":"無人機的預算442億"},{"start":10885.97,"end":10887.97,"text":"你們放話"},{"start":10887.97,"end":10889.97,"text":"要把它刪除"},{"start":10889.97,"end":10891.97,"text":"受到社會大眾的關注之後"},{"start":10891.97,"end":10893.97,"text":"你們現在改採凍結"},{"start":10893.97,"end":10895.97,"text":"但是放在公務預算裡頭"},{"start":10895.97,"end":10897.97,"text":"會有一個非常大的問題是"},{"start":10897.97,"end":10901.97,"text":"今年115年的年度總預算"},{"start":10901.97,"end":10903.97,"text":"到目前為止這一刻"},{"start":10903.97,"end":10905.97,"text":"現在是7月27號"},{"start":10905.97,"end":10907.97,"text":"7月27號"},{"start":10907.97,"end":10909.97,"text":"7月27號"},{"start":10909.97,"end":10911.97,"text":"115年的年度預算並還沒有通過"},{"start":10913.51,"end":10915.51,"text":"所以未來的採購"},{"start":10915.51,"end":10917.51,"text":"放在公務預算裡頭"},{"start":10917.51,"end":10919.51,"text":"其實"},{"start":10919.57,"end":10921.57,"text":"如果照現在這樣國民黨不審總預算"},{"start":10921.57,"end":10923.57,"text":"請問這一些公務預算如何通過"},{"start":10923.57,"end":10925.57,"text":"國防採購無人機的採購預算如何執行"},{"start":10930.59,"end":10932.59,"text":"這個是一個很大的問題"},{"start":10932.59,"end":10934.59,"text":"甚至未來在審查總預算的時候"},{"start":10934.59,"end":10936.59,"text":"這些公務預算"},{"start":10936.59,"end":10938.59,"text":"被你們大刀一砍"},{"start":10938.59,"end":10940.59,"text":"無人機"},{"start":10940.59,"end":10942.59,"text":"採購的預算有可能就這樣子"},{"start":10942.59,"end":10944.59,"text":"莫名其妙就被砍掉了"},{"start":10944.59,"end":10946.59,"text":"不知不覺的就被砍掉了"},{"start":10946.59,"end":10948.59,"text":"放在特別預算裡頭"},{"start":10948.59,"end":10950.59,"text":"只要一砍"},{"start":10950.59,"end":10952.59,"text":"大家都看得出來"},{"start":10952.59,"end":10954.59,"text":"那這是不是也是你們"},{"start":10954.59,"end":10956.59,"text":"這個狸貓換太子的一個手段之一呢"},{"start":10956.59,"end":10958.59,"text":"基本上我們都支持"},{"start":10958.59,"end":10960.59,"text":"國防採購應該要立刻審"},{"start":10960.59,"end":10962.59,"text":"支持無人載具的條例"},{"start":10962.59,"end":10964.59,"text":"要立刻審"},{"start":10964.59,"end":10966.59,"text":"但是要怎麼審"},{"start":10966.59,"end":10968.59,"text":"這是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":10968.59,"end":10970.59,"text":"這也是我們一直在強調"},{"start":10970.59,"end":10972.59,"text":"要兩個不同的概念要怎麼放在一起審"},{"start":10972.59,"end":10974.59,"text":"這是今天要討論的重點"},{"start":10974.71,"end":10976.71,"text":"好 我們發言的時候就是"},{"start":10976.71,"end":10978.71,"text":"賴世保委員、羅馬德蘇賓委員、郭國榮委員"},{"start":10978.71,"end":10980.71,"text":"再參議員"},{"start":10980.71,"end":10982.71,"text":"啊對不起 落掉一個"},{"start":10982.24,"end":10984.24,"text":"啊對不起 落掉一個"},{"start":10983.96,"end":10985.96,"text":"賴世保委員"},{"start":10986.98,"end":10988.98,"text":"好你先講好了"},{"start":10988.98,"end":10990.98,"text":"賴世保、羅馬德蘇賓、郭國榮、蔡英文"},{"start":10990.98,"end":10992.98,"text":"因為你都會交付下來"},{"start":10993.12,"end":10995.12,"text":"我們依著程序在走"},{"start":10996.13,"end":10998.13,"text":"再次強調"},{"start":10997.8,"end":10999.8,"text":"大家都認為無人機是非常重要"},{"start":10999.8,"end":11001.8,"text":"而且無人機是目前"},{"start":11001.8,"end":11003.8,"text":"不對稱作戰的核心"},{"start":11004.45,"end":11006.45,"text":"我們跟時間在賽跑"},{"start":11006.45,"end":11008.45,"text":"沒有理由在拖延時間"},{"start":11008.45,"end":11010.45,"text":"我們跟時間在賽跑"},{"start":11010.45,"end":11012.45,"text":"沒有理由在拖延"},{"start":11012.45,"end":11014.45,"text":"今天"},{"start":11014.45,"end":11016.45,"text":"議會交付下來"},{"start":11016.45,"end":11018.45,"text":"由主席所列出"},{"start":11018.45,"end":11020.45,"text":"我們應該要一條一條的來審"},{"start":11020.45,"end":11022.45,"text":"因為我們看到目前為止"},{"start":11022.45,"end":11024.45,"text":"在政府部門"},{"start":11024.45,"end":11026.45,"text":"也就是這個六年"},{"start":11026.45,"end":11028.45,"text":"442億"},{"start":11028.45,"end":11030.45,"text":"一年等於"},{"start":11030.45,"end":11032.45,"text":"80億左右"},{"start":11032.45,"end":11034.45,"text":"我們認為絕對是不夠"},{"start":11034.45,"end":11036.45,"text":"所以沒有理由在主導這個條例"},{"start":11036.45,"end":11038.45,"text":"趕快通過"},{"start":11038.5,"end":11040.5,"text":"我們不要再阻擋"},{"start":11040.48,"end":11042.48,"text":"今天大家都說"},{"start":11042.48,"end":11044.48,"text":"非常的重要"},{"start":11044.48,"end":11046.48,"text":"所以我建請"},{"start":11046.48,"end":11048.48,"text":"既然剛剛所有的委員發言"},{"start":11048.48,"end":11050.48,"text":"都認為無人機非常的重要"},{"start":11050.48,"end":11052.48,"text":"更是我們護國神山的重要關鍵"},{"start":11052.48,"end":11054.48,"text":"所以請大家"},{"start":11054.48,"end":11056.48,"text":"我們趕快從第一條"},{"start":11056.48,"end":11058.48,"text":"趕快來審"},{"start":11058.48,"end":11060.48,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11058.26,"end":11060.26,"text":"好,28委員"},{"start":11060.45,"end":11062.45,"text":"謝謝年輕人很多委員的指教"},{"start":11062.45,"end":11064.45,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":11064.45,"end":11066.45,"text":"你說怎麼會"},{"start":11066.45,"end":11068.45,"text":"我現在打臉,我過去沒有打臉"},{"start":11068.45,"end":11070.45,"text":"因為我的版本就放在上面"},{"start":11070.45,"end":11072.45,"text":"然後行政院的"},{"start":11072.45,"end":11074.45,"text":"也是特別條例也放在一起"},{"start":11074.45,"end":11076.45,"text":"行政院的特別條例"},{"start":11076.45,"end":11078.45,"text":"跟國民黨團、民眾黨團"},{"start":11078.45,"end":11080.45,"text":"一般條例都放在一起"},{"start":11080.45,"end":11082.45,"text":"每一個委員有的特別預算"},{"start":11082.45,"end":11084.45,"text":"有的一般預算"},{"start":11084.45,"end":11086.45,"text":"我有的一般預算"},{"start":11086.45,"end":11088.45,"text":"產業方案條例我沒有提預算"},{"start":11088.45,"end":11090.45,"text":"但是我就要提一個特別預算"},{"start":11090.45,"end":11092.45,"text":"也加起來一起審"},{"start":11092.45,"end":11094.45,"text":"就放在一起審"},{"start":11094.45,"end":11096.45,"text":"這有什麼說我否定我自己沒有"},{"start":11096.45,"end":11098.45,"text":"那是把條例放在上面"},{"start":11098.45,"end":11100.45,"text":"第十頁,剛才中間拼文"},{"start":11100.45,"end":11102.45,"text":"來指教,感謝指教"},{"start":11102.45,"end":11104.45,"text":"放在這裡,我沒有逃避"},{"start":11104.45,"end":11106.45,"text":"我就放在這裡,我的意思就在這裡"},{"start":11106.45,"end":11108.45,"text":"但是"},{"start":11108.45,"end":11110.45,"text":"我的跟國防部"},{"start":11110.45,"end":11112.45,"text":"最大不一樣在哪裡"},{"start":11112.49,"end":11114.49,"text":"國防部就是好不讓人一直賣"},{"start":11115.24,"end":11117.24,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":11117.24,"end":11119.24,"text":"2萬、21萬架"},{"start":11119.24,"end":11121.24,"text":"剛接的只有2000架左右"},{"start":11121.08,"end":11123.08,"text":"我的條例是什麼"},{"start":11123.08,"end":11125.08,"text":"我買進來一定要技術申請"},{"start":11125.08,"end":11127.08,"text":"我一定要技術"},{"start":11127.08,"end":11129.08,"text":"Obset,裡面最少40%以上"},{"start":11129.08,"end":11131.08,"text":"沒有這個東西我就不買"},{"start":11131.08,"end":11133.08,"text":"我這個是有條件的啊"},{"start":11133.67,"end":11135.67,"text":"放進來一起審"},{"start":11135.67,"end":11137.67,"text":"因為院會"},{"start":11137.67,"end":11139.67,"text":"我原來是說需要分開兩個"},{"start":11139.67,"end":11141.67,"text":"但院會已經交辦"},{"start":11141.67,"end":11143.67,"text":"那就是大家一起審"},{"start":11143.67,"end":11145.67,"text":"各位與其糾結"},{"start":11145.67,"end":11147.67,"text":"再說一定要分開兩個,你不如趕快"},{"start":11147.67,"end":11149.67,"text":"一起審"},{"start":11149.67,"end":11151.67,"text":"因為總共行政院的就是7條而已"},{"start":11151.67,"end":11153.67,"text":"扣掉7條而已"},{"start":11153.67,"end":11155.67,"text":"扣掉條文的名稱"},{"start":11155.67,"end":11157.67,"text":"主管單位14日期,只剩4條"},{"start":11158.19,"end":11160.19,"text":"行政院分明只有4條"},{"start":11160.19,"end":11162.19,"text":"我們的加加減減"},{"start":11162.19,"end":11164.19,"text":"有公司就給他過"},{"start":11164.19,"end":11166.19,"text":"沒有公司就保留學生"},{"start":11166.19,"end":11168.19,"text":"這樣才能夠往前走"},{"start":11168.19,"end":11170.19,"text":"至於說你一定要放在特別"},{"start":11170.19,"end":11172.19,"text":"放在什麼的"},{"start":11172.19,"end":11174.19,"text":"最後再來處理,院會再來處理"},{"start":11174.19,"end":11176.19,"text":"今天來講的話,我們就很清楚"},{"start":11177.33,"end":11179.33,"text":"我的PM就是兩個,一個是"},{"start":11179.79,"end":11181.79,"text":"我一個是沒有預算的,就只有一個法案"},{"start":11181.79,"end":11183.79,"text":"另外一個是"},{"start":11183.79,"end":11185.79,"text":"500億是一定要"},{"start":11185.79,"end":11187.79,"text":"技術升級、技術深耕"},{"start":11187.79,"end":11189.79,"text":"的案子"},{"start":11189.79,"end":11191.79,"text":"我沒有逃避,怎麼會說我打領"},{"start":11191.79,"end":11193.79,"text":"過去的Lasman沒有啊"},{"start":11193.79,"end":11195.79,"text":"Lasman都在這裡啊"},{"start":11195.79,"end":11197.79,"text":"我的提案就很清楚啊"},{"start":11197.79,"end":11199.79,"text":"我就是要,對我特別預算沒有錯"},{"start":11199.79,"end":11201.79,"text":"但是我要技術升級"},{"start":11201.79,"end":11203.79,"text":"不一樣,我的"},{"start":11203.79,"end":11205.79,"text":"我的就比國防部的高級一點"},{"start":11205.79,"end":11207.79,"text":"比較advanced一點"},{"start":11207.79,"end":11209.79,"text":"我不能去背你啊,我要高級一點"},{"start":11211.48,"end":11213.48,"text":"第一個,我要高級一點,我要技術升級"},{"start":11213.48,"end":11215.48,"text":"我要吸引更多國外的"},{"start":11215.48,"end":11217.48,"text":"高級的無人機的廠商"},{"start":11217.48,"end":11219.48,"text":"來台灣設廠,我是不一樣的"},{"start":11219.48,"end":11221.48,"text":"我沒有逃避,怎麼逃避"},{"start":11221.48,"end":11223.48,"text":"但是因為院會交辦"},{"start":11223.48,"end":11225.48,"text":"要放在一起審,我們就尊重"},{"start":11225.48,"end":11227.48,"text":"大念念念"},{"start":11227.61,"end":11229.61,"text":"好了"},{"start":11229.72,"end":11231.72,"text":"我是邊緯人啊"},{"start":11233.17,"end":11235.17,"text":"我特別預算得很認真"},{"start":11234.87,"end":11236.87,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":11236.87,"end":11238.87,"text":"本黨呢就已經有看到說"},{"start":11238.87,"end":11240.87,"text":"國防部裡面"},{"start":11240.87,"end":11242.87,"text":"非常重要的一個要把"},{"start":11242.87,"end":11244.87,"text":"自主,國防自主的這個意識"},{"start":11244.87,"end":11246.87,"text":"在裡面,我們可以看到國防部"},{"start":11246.87,"end":11248.87,"text":"裡面他有強調一個是"},{"start":11248.87,"end":11250.87,"text":"要,除了後職國防產業"},{"start":11250.87,"end":11252.87,"text":"之外還打造飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":11252.87,"end":11254.87,"text":"那我們針對這個地方呢,剛才大家"},{"start":11254.87,"end":11256.87,"text":"有提到的,很多的就是"},{"start":11256.87,"end":11258.87,"text":"包括說採購啦,還包括產業,但是"},{"start":11258.87,"end":11260.87,"text":"我們是唯一有兼顧到兩者的"},{"start":11260.87,"end":11262.87,"text":"為什麼我們這樣說,因為我們"},{"start":11262.87,"end":11264.87,"text":"這一次的強調的"},{"start":11264.87,"end":11266.87,"text":"如果是照著採購的部分去講的話"},{"start":11266.87,"end":11268.87,"text":"就是國防的工業呢"},{"start":11268.87,"end":11270.87,"text":"他未來呢,只到六年之後就是"},{"start":11270.87,"end":11272.87,"text":"還是只有採購而已,但是"},{"start":11272.87,"end":11274.87,"text":"我們終點是不希望是這個預算取向"},{"start":11274.87,"end":11276.87,"text":"把兩千億、百億讓他變成說是"},{"start":11276.87,"end":11278.87,"text":"產業是透過"},{"start":11278.87,"end":11280.87,"text":"透過政府的"},{"start":11280.87,"end":11282.87,"text":"經費放上去,尤其大家也可以確定"},{"start":11282.87,"end":11284.87,"text":"我們現在當然已經確定到說"},{"start":11284.87,"end":11286.87,"text":"我們全世界的飛鴻的國家"},{"start":11286.87,"end":11288.87,"text":"就是,飛鴻的國家"},{"start":11288.87,"end":11290.87,"text":"他是願意花錢去支持"},{"start":11290.87,"end":11292.87,"text":"他也沒有跟中國"},{"start":11292.87,"end":11294.87,"text":"所參與的這個產業,所以"},{"start":11294.87,"end":11296.87,"text":"支持的,也願意比較高的價格,但是"},{"start":11296.87,"end":11298.87,"text":"我們是不是能夠在這個期間"},{"start":11298.87,"end":11300.87,"text":"之內把自己有自主的"},{"start":11300.87,"end":11302.87,"text":"工業產業拉出來,就必須靠著"},{"start":11302.87,"end":11304.87,"text":"像民眾黨這邊所"},{"start":11304.87,"end":11306.87,"text":"重視到的,要用的是"},{"start":11306.87,"end":11308.87,"text":"一個長期的"},{"start":11308.87,"end":11310.87,"text":"是一個市場驅動的力量"},{"start":11310.87,"end":11312.87,"text":"那市場驅動的力量就必須要"},{"start":11312.87,"end":11314.87,"text":"有產業的發展,好這邊是最"},{"start":11314.87,"end":11316.87,"text":"重要的,而且如果產業發展"},{"start":11316.87,"end":11318.87,"text":"產業發展竟然是做為要"},{"start":11318.87,"end":11320.87,"text":"支持到國防的自主產業"},{"start":11320.87,"end":11322.87,"text":"那就必須要把,又放在"},{"start":11322.87,"end":11324.87,"text":"我們的一般預算來進行"},{"start":11324.87,"end":11326.87,"text":"這是本黨第一個重要的差別"},{"start":11326.87,"end":11328.87,"text":"第二個部分在於"},{"start":11328.87,"end":11330.87,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈的部分,我們可以看到"},{"start":11330.87,"end":11332.87,"text":"國防部、行政院"},{"start":11332.87,"end":11334.87,"text":"的這個版本當中"},{"start":11334.87,"end":11336.87,"text":"它7條"},{"start":11336.8,"end":11338.8,"text":"它的7條版本當中"},{"start":11338.8,"end":11340.8,"text":"並沒有說這個飛鴻的供應鏈"},{"start":11340.8,"end":11342.8,"text":"到底是怎麼去認證的"},{"start":11342.8,"end":11344.8,"text":"那本黨的部分,包括說"},{"start":11344.8,"end":11346.8,"text":"還有很多在於說,你要達到"},{"start":11346.8,"end":11348.8,"text":"這個空域,不就是我們現在缺少的"},{"start":11348.8,"end":11350.8,"text":"在於"},{"start":11350.8,"end":11352.8,"text":"它的這個"},{"start":11352.8,"end":11354.8,"text":"空域的"},{"start":11354.67,"end":11356.67,"text":"空域的"},{"start":11356.89,"end":11358.89,"text":"空域的部分的測試"},{"start":11358.89,"end":11360.89,"text":"測試場式跟它的一個認證"},{"start":11360.89,"end":11362.89,"text":"都需要有更具體的一個"},{"start":11362.89,"end":11364.89,"text":"規劃,那本黨是很負責"},{"start":11364.89,"end":11366.89,"text":"提出來這些相關的規定"},{"start":11366.89,"end":11368.89,"text":"但所謂的飛鴻供應鏈,不是"},{"start":11368.89,"end":11370.89,"text":"只是口號,而是透過"},{"start":11370.89,"end":11372.89,"text":"這樣子的一個很清楚"},{"start":11372.89,"end":11374.89,"text":"的,怎麼樣把紅色供應鏈"},{"start":11374.89,"end":11376.89,"text":"去除到飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":11376.89,"end":11378.89,"text":"去掉飛鴻供應鏈上面的認證制度"},{"start":11378.89,"end":11380.89,"text":"這就是我們這邊所要強調的"},{"start":11380.89,"end":11382.89,"text":"有的必要性"},{"start":11382.89,"end":11384.89,"text":"好,接下來我們請郭國恩委員"},{"start":11389.88,"end":11391.88,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":11391.88,"end":11393.88,"text":"剛剛您聽那個"},{"start":11393.88,"end":11395.88,"text":"操演時間的對話,聽不上去有一種"},{"start":11395.88,"end":11397.88,"text":"雞同鴨講的那種感覺"},{"start":11397.88,"end":11399.88,"text":"不過在過程當中"},{"start":11399.88,"end":11401.88,"text":"還有一定的共識"},{"start":11401.88,"end":11403.88,"text":"共識的部分就是本黨"},{"start":11403.88,"end":11405.88,"text":"希望用特別預算的方式跟賴斯堡"},{"start":11405.88,"end":11407.88,"text":"委員是一致的"},{"start":11407.88,"end":11409.88,"text":"如果是這樣子是不是從有共識"},{"start":11409.88,"end":11411.88,"text":"面的部分來做切入"},{"start":11411.88,"end":11413.88,"text":"剛剛楊瓊瑩委員說有提到說"},{"start":11413.88,"end":11415.88,"text":"在產業發展,在經濟部"},{"start":11415.88,"end":11417.88,"text":"的部分,440而已好像太少"},{"start":11417.88,"end":11419.88,"text":"其實如果再加上國務部的版本"},{"start":11419.88,"end":11421.88,"text":"2100億加起來好像"},{"start":11421.88,"end":11423.88,"text":"也不會太少,更何況呢"},{"start":11423.88,"end":11425.88,"text":"不論從供給面也好,從需求面也好"},{"start":11425.88,"end":11427.88,"text":"它有不同的面向,可以形成"},{"start":11427.88,"end":11429.88,"text":"一個共同目標,但切入點會"},{"start":11429.88,"end":11431.88,"text":"有不同,因為國務部的版本"},{"start":11431.88,"end":11433.88,"text":"其實是從作戰需求的部分"},{"start":11433.88,"end":11435.88,"text":"也就是從需求面"},{"start":11435.88,"end":11437.88,"text":"來營造供給面"},{"start":11437.88,"end":11439.88,"text":"來達到採購的裝備跟形成"},{"start":11439.88,"end":11441.88,"text":"戰力的可能"},{"start":11441.88,"end":11443.88,"text":"而經濟部的部分比較像是一個協助"},{"start":11443.88,"end":11445.88,"text":"供應鏈跟技術與產能的部分"},{"start":11445.88,"end":11447.88,"text":"這樣的部分其實不應該"},{"start":11447.88,"end":11449.88,"text":"錯置,也不應該混為一談"},{"start":11449.88,"end":11451.88,"text":"但國民黨跟民眾黨版本當中"},{"start":11451.88,"end":11453.88,"text":"又含測試、產業聚落"},{"start":11453.88,"end":11455.88,"text":"輸貨、市場、還有一般的公務採購"},{"start":11455.88,"end":11457.88,"text":"老實講,老實說"},{"start":11457.88,"end":11459.88,"text":"會把建軍的需求跟產業的"},{"start":11459.88,"end":11461.88,"text":"扶植混在一起"},{"start":11461.88,"end":11463.88,"text":"然後我們讓產業發展就交給經濟部來處理"},{"start":11463.88,"end":11465.88,"text":"因為已經有無人載具產業"},{"start":11465.88,"end":11467.88,"text":"發展計畫了,所以這樣的情況"},{"start":11467.88,"end":11469.88,"text":"底下,讓經濟部去發展產業"},{"start":11469.88,"end":11471.88,"text":"需求,讓國防部來完成"},{"start":11471.88,"end":11473.88,"text":"建軍的需要"},{"start":11475.81,"end":11477.81,"text":"好,接下來請蔡議員"},{"start":11479.34,"end":11481.34,"text":"我負荷郭國恩委員講的"},{"start":11481.34,"end":11483.34,"text":"那如果朝野"},{"start":11483.34,"end":11485.34,"text":"我們現在"},{"start":11485.34,"end":11487.34,"text":"大家的共識是在於"},{"start":11487.34,"end":11489.34,"text":"特別預算可以優先處理的話"},{"start":11489.34,"end":11491.34,"text":"那我們可以立即處理"},{"start":11491.34,"end":11493.34,"text":"那基本上我還是要講"},{"start":11493.34,"end":11495.34,"text":"像國民黨版本所提出來"},{"start":11495.34,"end":11497.34,"text":"用年度預算,每年便列四百億"},{"start":11497.34,"end":11499.34,"text":"這樣的一個架構"},{"start":11499.34,"end":11501.34,"text":"它永遠會卡在"},{"start":11501.34,"end":11503.34,"text":"總預算,到底什麼時候通過"},{"start":11503.34,"end":11505.34,"text":"那比方說,我們在上禮拜一的時候"},{"start":11505.34,"end":11507.34,"text":"我們經濟委員會"},{"start":11507.34,"end":11509.34,"text":"會有到"},{"start":11509.34,"end":11511.34,"text":"這個我們嘉義"},{"start":11511.34,"end":11513.34,"text":"這個雅創"},{"start":11513.34,"end":11515.34,"text":"去做限定的一個匯寬"},{"start":11515.34,"end":11517.34,"text":"那這個雅創,它目前它需要"},{"start":11517.34,"end":11519.34,"text":"包括說它裡面的一些設備"},{"start":11519.34,"end":11521.34,"text":"未來如果做無人機的"},{"start":11521.34,"end":11523.34,"text":"測試的一個場域的話"},{"start":11523.34,"end":11525.34,"text":"它是需要投入相關的設備"},{"start":11525.34,"end":11527.34,"text":"所以它需要的預算"},{"start":11527.34,"end":11529.34,"text":"差不多十億多"},{"start":11529.34,"end":11531.34,"text":"那這個預算"},{"start":11531.34,"end":11533.34,"text":"行政院都已經同意"},{"start":11533.34,"end":11535.34,"text":"就卡在總預算還沒有通過"},{"start":11535.34,"end":11537.34,"text":"那所以這樣一拖,你看"},{"start":11537.34,"end":11539.34,"text":"今年度已經拖了"},{"start":11539.36,"end":11541.36,"text":"七個多月了"},{"start":11541.36,"end":11543.36,"text":"這樣的一個延宕,都是時間的浪費"},{"start":11543.36,"end":11545.36,"text":"所以我們對於說"},{"start":11545.36,"end":11547.36,"text":"你們用年度預算"},{"start":11547.36,"end":11549.36,"text":"來編列,那年度預算"},{"start":11549.36,"end":11551.36,"text":"沒有辦法通過,也許不是因為無人機"},{"start":11551.36,"end":11553.36,"text":"是其他的因素"},{"start":11553.36,"end":11555.36,"text":"總是它會去卡住"},{"start":11555.36,"end":11557.36,"text":"一旦卡住的話,就會造成這個產業"},{"start":11557.36,"end":11559.36,"text":"它所需要的"},{"start":11559.36,"end":11561.36,"text":"一些預算的支持,就會不見"},{"start":11561.36,"end":11563.36,"text":"就是這麼簡單,所以我們還是認為說"},{"start":11563.36,"end":11565.36,"text":"大家如果支持"},{"start":11565.36,"end":11567.36,"text":"無人機產業的話"},{"start":11567.36,"end":11569.36,"text":"就用特別預算,而且既然"},{"start":11569.36,"end":11571.36,"text":"剛剛這樣一輪的發言起來"},{"start":11571.36,"end":11573.36,"text":"特別預算,既然有預算"},{"start":11573.36,"end":11575.36,"text":"已經有共識的話,那我們就"},{"start":11575.36,"end":11577.36,"text":"從這裡來開始審議吧"},{"start":11579.49,"end":11581.49,"text":"好,我們從第一條就開始好不好"},{"start":11581.49,"end":11583.49,"text":"因為,我告訴你,我都看完了"},{"start":11583.49,"end":11585.49,"text":"名稱,就是名稱"},{"start":11585.49,"end":11587.49,"text":"名稱,名稱"},{"start":11588.57,"end":11590.57,"text":"名稱的話"},{"start":11593.19,"end":11595.19,"text":"嗯,那就保留啊"},{"start":11598.29,"end":11600.29,"text":"不是,因為對我們本黨"},{"start":11600.29,"end":11602.29,"text":"對我們本黨來講的話"},{"start":11602.29,"end":11604.29,"text":"就是一樣啊"},{"start":11604.29,"end":11606.29,"text":"我就是支持年度預算"},{"start":11606.29,"end":11608.29,"text":"你這樣的主持,這樣的審查"},{"start":11608.29,"end":11610.29,"text":"叫做過水"},{"start":11610.07,"end":11612.07,"text":"名稱就有三種"},{"start":11612.07,"end":11614.07,"text":"我剛剛就講的是三個不同的概念"},{"start":11614.07,"end":11616.07,"text":"那大家要不要討論"},{"start":11616.07,"end":11618.07,"text":"你都還沒討論,你馬上就講說那三種不同"},{"start":11618.07,"end":11620.07,"text":"那就保留,那你就是在過水嘛"},{"start":11620.07,"end":11622.07,"text":"你很明顯就是在過水嘛"},{"start":11622.98,"end":11624.98,"text":"主席"},{"start":11624.98,"end":11626.98,"text":"我就會這樣子講"},{"start":11626.98,"end":11628.98,"text":"我覺得這樣子對主席不公平啊"},{"start":11628.98,"end":11630.98,"text":"我覺得這樣子對主席不公平啊"},{"start":11630.98,"end":11632.98,"text":"剛剛我們審查的時候"},{"start":11632.98,"end":11634.98,"text":"已經大家發言這麼多次"},{"start":11634.98,"end":11636.98,"text":"然後主席有說了"},{"start":11636.98,"end":11638.98,"text":"大家各自的版本"},{"start":11638.98,"end":11640.98,"text":"主席也表示他民眾黨的"},{"start":11640.98,"end":11642.98,"text":"的名稱希望是什麼"},{"start":11642.98,"end":11644.98,"text":"剛剛我也提出國民黨的名稱"},{"start":11644.98,"end":11646.98,"text":"是什麼,我支持國民黨"},{"start":11646.98,"end":11648.98,"text":"這就是這樣子啊,所以"},{"start":11648.98,"end":11650.98,"text":"大家充分討論,已經超過了"},{"start":11650.98,"end":11652.98,"text":"超過了快一個鐘頭"},{"start":11652.98,"end":11654.98,"text":"應該要針對於"},{"start":11654.98,"end":11656.98,"text":"我們的進度第一條,到底要怎麼處理啊"},{"start":11658.48,"end":11660.48,"text":"主席我支持用賴氏八五員的"},{"start":11660.48,"end":11662.48,"text":"特別預算的方式,有特別預算的"},{"start":11662.48,"end":11664.48,"text":"都先審啊,好不好"},{"start":11664.48,"end":11666.48,"text":"沒有啊,賴氏八五有一個無人載具產業"},{"start":11666.48,"end":11668.48,"text":"升級發展啊,差不多啊,他兩個都可以"},{"start":11668.48,"end":11670.48,"text":"先審他有特別預算的,那就是保留"},{"start":11671.88,"end":11673.88,"text":"因為你已經都討論了,我就說"},{"start":11673.88,"end":11675.88,"text":"今天我們也不想"},{"start":11675.88,"end":11677.88,"text":"大家充分共事"},{"start":11677.88,"end":11679.88,"text":"你們要支持我這個案子,你們要支持五百億喔"},{"start":11679.88,"end":11681.88,"text":"我就從兩千億買一檻成五百億喔"},{"start":11681.88,"end":11683.88,"text":"我是支持用特別預算的賴氏八五員"},{"start":11683.88,"end":11685.88,"text":"我支持賴氏八五員用特別預算"},{"start":11685.88,"end":11687.88,"text":"他是說方式"},{"start":11687.88,"end":11689.88,"text":"不是幾十米的版本"},{"start":11689.88,"end":11691.88,"text":"那我們的"},{"start":11691.88,"end":11693.88,"text":"那我們現在是要談"},{"start":11693.88,"end":11695.88,"text":"法案名稱嘛"},{"start":11695.88,"end":11697.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11697.88,"end":11699.88,"text":"不要再講到其他"},{"start":11699.88,"end":11701.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11701.88,"end":11703.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11703.88,"end":11705.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11705.88,"end":11707.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11707.88,"end":11709.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11709.88,"end":11711.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11711.88,"end":11713.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11713.88,"end":11715.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11715.88,"end":11717.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11717.88,"end":11719.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11719.88,"end":11721.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11721.88,"end":11723.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11723.88,"end":11725.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11725.88,"end":11727.88,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11706.19,"end":11708.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11708.19,"end":11710.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11710.19,"end":11712.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11712.19,"end":11714.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11714.19,"end":11716.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11716.19,"end":11718.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11718.19,"end":11720.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11720.19,"end":11722.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11722.19,"end":11724.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11724.19,"end":11726.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11726.19,"end":11728.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11728.19,"end":11730.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11730.19,"end":11732.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11732.19,"end":11734.19,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11715.4,"end":11717.4,"text":"國防採購技術合作特別的條例"},{"start":11717.4,"end":11719.4,"text":"國防採購技術合作特別的條例"},{"start":11719.4,"end":11721.4,"text":"這個名字很好啊"},{"start":11720.87,"end":11722.87,"text":"這個名字很好啊"},{"start":11722.87,"end":11724.87,"text":"我們支持賴志邦委員的這個"},{"start":11724.87,"end":11726.87,"text":"國外採購技術合作特別條例"},{"start":11729.44,"end":11731.44,"text":"主席啊,這個到了最後"},{"start":11731.44,"end":11733.44,"text":"每一個委員都有提案的權利"},{"start":11733.44,"end":11735.44,"text":"每一個黨團也都有提案的權利"},{"start":11735.44,"end":11737.44,"text":"剛進到委員會的目標,目標不就是要整合出一個版本嗎"},{"start":11737.44,"end":11739.44,"text":"到最後你只能刪除一個版本嘛"},{"start":11739.44,"end":11741.44,"text":"這是大家都同意的事嘛"},{"start":11741.44,"end":11743.44,"text":"那今天大家支持不一樣的版本"},{"start":11743.44,"end":11745.44,"text":"但本席就是堅持國民黨黨團的版本"},{"start":11745.44,"end":11747.44,"text":"那今天大家各執一池"},{"start":11747.44,"end":11749.44,"text":"堅持己見的時候不就是保留嗎"},{"start":11749.44,"end":11751.44,"text":"那這就是委員會的慣例啊"},{"start":11751.44,"end":11753.44,"text":"不就是這樣嗎"},{"start":11753.22,"end":11755.22,"text":"所以我講今天本席的態度就是我就是堅持國民黨黨團的提案"},{"start":11755.22,"end":11757.22,"text":"堅持民眾黨的版本啊"},{"start":11757.22,"end":11759.22,"text":"是啊,那就這樣了嘛"},{"start":11760.44,"end":11762.44,"text":"那要嘛我們可以在這邊一直講一直講"},{"start":11762.44,"end":11764.44,"text":"那到底這樣子對於快速通過有沒有幫助嘛"},{"start":11764.44,"end":11766.44,"text":"沒有就沒有嘛"},{"start":11766.44,"end":11768.44,"text":"法案明天已經一個鐘頭了"},{"start":11768.44,"end":11770.44,"text":"我們更時間賽跑"},{"start":11770.44,"end":11772.44,"text":"請主席坐決"},{"start":11771.83,"end":11773.83,"text":"坐台決"},{"start":11776.27,"end":11778.27,"text":"請主席坐決"},{"start":11778.51,"end":11782.51,"text":"法案條名稱所有版本提案均保留"},{"start":11787.66,"end":11789.66,"text":"好,我們接下來進行第一條"},{"start":11791.15,"end":11793.15,"text":"請進一步"},{"start":11793.14,"end":11795.14,"text":"說明"},{"start":11803.77,"end":11805.77,"text":"好,那跟委員會報告"},{"start":11805.77,"end":11809.77,"text":"那我們這邊還是建立行政院版本的第一條"},{"start":11809.77,"end":11811.77,"text":"我們的理由是"},{"start":11811.77,"end":11813.77,"text":"因為"},{"start":11813.61,"end":11815.61,"text":"委員"},{"start":11815.61,"end":11819.61,"text":"裡面的這個版本涉及到就是說產業發展的部分"},{"start":11819.61,"end":11821.61,"text":"我們已經有在產創條例"},{"start":11821.61,"end":11825.61,"text":"還有行政院的無人載具產業發展統修行計畫"},{"start":11825.61,"end":11829.61,"text":"都已經有納入相關的研發補助租稅優惠"},{"start":11829.61,"end":11833.61,"text":"人才培育跟資金協助的一些措施"},{"start":11833.61,"end":11837.61,"text":"那另外國防法裡面也有這個針對工業合作"},{"start":11837.61,"end":11839.61,"text":"也有做一些規範"},{"start":11839.61,"end":11841.61,"text":"所以我們還是建立就是說"},{"start":11841.61,"end":11845.61,"text":"是不是可以聚焦在無人機的這個國防採購上面"},{"start":11845.61,"end":11847.61,"text":"以上"},{"start":11848.71,"end":11850.71,"text":"好"},{"start":11849.59,"end":11851.59,"text":"請各位聽話"},{"start":11852.51,"end":11854.51,"text":"中央病委員"},{"start":11854.75,"end":11858.75,"text":"其實剛剛因為幾位委員的表達"},{"start":11858.75,"end":11860.75,"text":"沒有錯,我們要尋求共識"},{"start":11860.75,"end":11864.75,"text":"那因為呢,尋求共識的方式呢,就自己要先讓步"},{"start":11864.75,"end":11866.75,"text":"如果大家各自堅持不讓步,就絕對不會有共識"},{"start":11866.75,"end":11868.75,"text":"所以雖然我有一個版本"},{"start":11868.75,"end":11870.75,"text":"行政院有版本"},{"start":11870.75,"end":11872.75,"text":"那本黨團有很多人提出版本"},{"start":11872.75,"end":11874.75,"text":"但是我願意率先做一個示範"},{"start":11874.75,"end":11876.75,"text":"為了尋求共識先讓步"},{"start":11876.75,"end":11878.75,"text":"我覺得賴斯巴委員"},{"start":11878.75,"end":11883.75,"text":"國防戰略無人載具國外採購及技術合作特別條例的第一條"},{"start":11883.75,"end":11887.75,"text":"面對國防安全情勢日益嚴峻等等等"},{"start":11887.75,"end":11892.75,"text":"要強化我國的情報監視、偵查及精準打擊等等等多重嚇阻能力"},{"start":11892.75,"end":11895.75,"text":"並結合美國及其他國家先進戰略無人載具"},{"start":11895.75,"end":11903.75,"text":"服務以技術移轉及工業合作提升我國無人載具產業自自主研發產製及維修能量"},{"start":11903.75,"end":11905.75,"text":"確保國家安全與國防自主"},{"start":11905.75,"end":11907.75,"text":"特制定本條例,我支持"},{"start":11910.25,"end":11912.25,"text":"楊瓊瑩委員"},{"start":11912.5,"end":11915.5,"text":"其實我們看到行政院的版本第一條"},{"start":11915.5,"end":11917.5,"text":"跟我們國民黨的提案"},{"start":11917.5,"end":11920.5,"text":"為意新世代科技戰爭形態"},{"start":11920.5,"end":11923.5,"text":"強化台灣國防之不對稱的戰力"},{"start":11923.5,"end":11927.5,"text":"推動軍民通用科技雙向轉移"},{"start":11927.5,"end":11932.5,"text":"引導民間卓越的資通訊與精密機械產能"},{"start":11932.5,"end":11934.5,"text":"投入國防產業"},{"start":11934.5,"end":11938.5,"text":"落實國防自主與產業升級之雙重效益"},{"start":11938.5,"end":11939.5,"text":"雙重效益"},{"start":11939.5,"end":11942.5,"text":"並建立符合民主供應鏈標準"},{"start":11942.5,"end":11945.5,"text":"排除了高風險供應鏈"},{"start":11945.99,"end":11947.99,"text":"特制定本條例"},{"start":11947.99,"end":11949.99,"text":"所以這個條例的文字"},{"start":11949.99,"end":11955.99,"text":"比行政院的版本更加的周延"},{"start":11955.99,"end":11959.99,"text":"所以我們敬請支持國民黨第一條的文字"},{"start":11962.09,"end":11964.09,"text":"我支持楊瓊瑩委員"},{"start":11967.86,"end":11969.86,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":11969.86,"end":11971.86,"text":"基本上我附議一下鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":11971.86,"end":11974.86,"text":"我覺得真的賴世寶委員的這個"},{"start":11974.86,"end":11976.86,"text":"國防戰略無人載具"},{"start":11976.86,"end":11980.86,"text":"國外採購及特別技術合作特別條例裡頭的"},{"start":11980.86,"end":11985.86,"text":"第一條的文字我認為更加的完整"},{"start":11985.86,"end":11987.86,"text":"跟能夠"},{"start":11987.88,"end":11988.88,"text":"更加精準的表達"},{"start":11988.88,"end":11991.88,"text":"其實我們在國防戰略上面的思維"},{"start":11991.88,"end":11993.88,"text":"那我附議鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":11993.88,"end":11995.88,"text":"我也希望能夠支持"},{"start":11995.88,"end":11997.88,"text":"楊瓊瑩委員可能也忘記了"},{"start":11997.88,"end":11999.88,"text":"你也是這個提案的共同提案人"},{"start":11999.88,"end":12001.88,"text":"所以你現在反而不支持這個提案"},{"start":12001.88,"end":12003.88,"text":"我也覺得怪怪的"},{"start":12005.9,"end":12007.9,"text":"今天我們是在跟時間賽跑"},{"start":12007.9,"end":12009.9,"text":"我們要怎麼樣研議"},{"start":12009.9,"end":12011.9,"text":"能夠更周延"},{"start":12011.9,"end":12013.9,"text":"所以我請各位同仁"},{"start":12013.9,"end":12015.9,"text":"我們經濟委員會"},{"start":12015.9,"end":12017.9,"text":"不管國防委員會或者是這個"},{"start":12017.9,"end":12019.9,"text":"都"},{"start":12019.9,"end":12021.9,"text":"大家都是非常的希望無人機"},{"start":12021.9,"end":12023.9,"text":"能夠趕快去通過"},{"start":12023.9,"end":12025.9,"text":"所以我覺得再多的政治化術"},{"start":12025.9,"end":12027.9,"text":"對於無人機的產業"},{"start":12027.9,"end":12029.9,"text":"或者是國防自主都沒有幫助"},{"start":12031.89,"end":12033.89,"text":"好 賴慧文委員"},{"start":12033.89,"end":12035.89,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":12035.89,"end":12037.89,"text":"我想我附議鍾嘉斌跟那個"},{"start":12037.89,"end":12039.89,"text":"邱毅穎委員的一個提案"},{"start":12039.89,"end":12041.89,"text":"那當然我也支持賴世保委員"},{"start":12041.89,"end":12043.89,"text":"在這個"},{"start":12043.89,"end":12047.89,"text":"那個就是在第一條法案的一個提案"},{"start":12047.89,"end":12050.89,"text":"那以上是表達本席的意見"},{"start":12052.07,"end":12054.07,"text":"賴世保委員再呈答題委員"},{"start":12054.07,"end":12056.07,"text":"我們謝謝大家的支持"},{"start":12056.07,"end":12058.07,"text":"大家如果可以支持"},{"start":12058.07,"end":12060.07,"text":"因為我的版本第一條"},{"start":12060.07,"end":12062.07,"text":"我當然這個很高興的接受"},{"start":12062.07,"end":12064.07,"text":"那就第一條按照我的版本"},{"start":12064.61,"end":12065.61,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12066.48,"end":12068.48,"text":"謝謝主席我們特別講到"},{"start":12068.48,"end":12070.48,"text":"就是說這一次的"},{"start":12071.49,"end":12073.49,"text":"這個條裡面還有一個很重要的因素"},{"start":12073.49,"end":12075.49,"text":"就是要跟美國及其他國家合作"},{"start":12075.49,"end":12077.49,"text":"這個"},{"start":12077.06,"end":12079.06,"text":"工業合作的部分"},{"start":12079.06,"end":12081.06,"text":"所以說我對這個"},{"start":12081.06,"end":12083.06,"text":"鍾委員的說法我是認同的"},{"start":12084.2,"end":12086.2,"text":"好 黃安祥委員"},{"start":12086.2,"end":12088.2,"text":"好 我說明一下"},{"start":12088.2,"end":12090.2,"text":"比如說黨團的版本"},{"start":12090.2,"end":12092.2,"text":"因為我們這個版本基本上"},{"start":12092.2,"end":12094.2,"text":"兼顧了這個國防自主"},{"start":12094.2,"end":12096.2,"text":"然後同時我們也在這個"},{"start":12096.2,"end":12098.2,"text":"我們的條例裡面有講到就是"},{"start":12098.2,"end":12100.2,"text":"我們協助這個大家都非常重視"},{"start":12100.2,"end":12102.2,"text":"台灣本地無人機產業的發展"},{"start":12102.2,"end":12104.2,"text":"的升級"},{"start":12104.2,"end":12106.2,"text":"那因為現在這個"},{"start":12106.2,"end":12108.2,"text":"這一次的無人機的採購"},{"start":12108.2,"end":12110.2,"text":"有別於過去我們傳統上"},{"start":12110.2,"end":12112.2,"text":"的FMS的採購"},{"start":12112.2,"end":12114.2,"text":"那無人機裡面又發行軍規"},{"start":12114.2,"end":12116.2,"text":"跟這個商規的軍用的部分"},{"start":12116.2,"end":12118.2,"text":"所以我們希望"},{"start":12118.2,"end":12120.2,"text":"這個再考慮到我剛說的"},{"start":12120.2,"end":12122.2,"text":"這些版本裡面我們應該在"},{"start":12122.2,"end":12124.2,"text":"我們第一條裡面是比較全面有涵蓋到"},{"start":12124.2,"end":12126.2,"text":"以上"},{"start":12125.78,"end":12127.78,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12129.56,"end":12131.56,"text":"好 還沒"},{"start":12133.93,"end":12135.93,"text":"目前看起來就是國民黨團"},{"start":12135.93,"end":12137.93,"text":"就是有"},{"start":12137.93,"end":12139.93,"text":"版本 然後在民眾黨團"},{"start":12139.93,"end":12141.93,"text":"的版本的重點"},{"start":12141.93,"end":12143.93,"text":"就在"},{"start":12142.98,"end":12144.98,"text":"其實就是軍民的通用技術"},{"start":12144.98,"end":12146.98,"text":"這個跟國民黨一樣"},{"start":12146.98,"end":12148.98,"text":"然後國防自主"},{"start":12148.98,"end":12150.98,"text":"另外我們再加一個"},{"start":12150.98,"end":12152.98,"text":"所謂的非"},{"start":12152.98,"end":12154.98,"text":"民主供應鏈 或者是像"},{"start":12154.98,"end":12156.98,"text":"行政院講的非法供應鏈"},{"start":12156.98,"end":12158.98,"text":"然後另外就是"},{"start":12158.98,"end":12160.98,"text":"進入這個國際"},{"start":12160.98,"end":12162.98,"text":"因為是產業發展嘛 我們要做一個"},{"start":12162.98,"end":12164.98,"text":"輸出"},{"start":12164.98,"end":12166.98,"text":"那賴世保委員的話"},{"start":12166.98,"end":12168.98,"text":"應該就是講了結合"},{"start":12168.98,"end":12170.98,"text":"美國其他先進戰略的技術"},{"start":12170.98,"end":12172.98,"text":"各自有各自的支持者"},{"start":12175.78,"end":12177.78,"text":"所以是不是請國防部"},{"start":12177.78,"end":12179.78,"text":"可以表示意見 因為我們這樣"},{"start":12179.78,"end":12181.78,"text":"執政黨支持賴世保委員的版本"},{"start":12181.78,"end":12183.78,"text":"我很擔心我們顧部長回去行政院"},{"start":12183.78,"end":12185.78,"text":"他交代不過去 他要表達一下"},{"start":12192.67,"end":12194.67,"text":"美國國防部長"},{"start":12197.33,"end":12199.33,"text":"主席 郭偉賢"},{"start":12199.33,"end":12201.33,"text":"第一點就是說 就法案的名稱"},{"start":12201.33,"end":12203.33,"text":"我還是說明一下 因為他主要"},{"start":12203.33,"end":12205.33,"text":"三個要素 第一個是法案名稱討論過了"},{"start":12205.33,"end":12207.33,"text":"就是第一條 沒有我只是"},{"start":12207.33,"end":12209.33,"text":"因為後續要面對第一條"},{"start":12209.33,"end":12211.33,"text":"因為他重點是在國防"},{"start":12211.33,"end":12213.33,"text":"自主這第一個 第二個呢"},{"start":12213.33,"end":12215.33,"text":"採購 那採購的標"},{"start":12215.33,"end":12217.33,"text":"要有相關的標的 所以我們"},{"start":12217.33,"end":12219.33,"text":"在後面的第四條"},{"start":12219.33,"end":12221.33,"text":"應該有 我現在都第一條"},{"start":12221.33,"end":12223.33,"text":"對 相關的標的"},{"start":12223.33,"end":12225.33,"text":"有做一個說明 然後另外他是"},{"start":12225.33,"end":12227.33,"text":"用特別條例 所以有特別預算"},{"start":12227.33,"end":12229.33,"text":"那我現在說明一下"},{"start":12229.33,"end":12231.33,"text":"第一條的這個"},{"start":12231.64,"end":12235.64,"text":"會延續後面我們要採購的相關的標的"},{"start":12235.64,"end":12237.64,"text":"那這個延續相關的標的"},{"start":12237.64,"end":12239.64,"text":"的部分就是我們著重於"},{"start":12239.64,"end":12241.64,"text":"這個濱海健身型的無人機"},{"start":12241.64,"end":12243.64,"text":"濱海攻擊型的無人機"},{"start":12243.64,"end":12245.64,"text":"以及這個無人艇"},{"start":12245.64,"end":12247.64,"text":"但國民黨的相關"},{"start":12247.64,"end":12249.64,"text":"後面的提案的相關的"},{"start":12249.64,"end":12251.64,"text":"版本 他是將所有的無人載具"},{"start":12251.64,"end":12253.64,"text":"都放進去 那相關的"},{"start":12253.64,"end":12255.64,"text":"無人載具都放進去 因為無人載具"},{"start":12255.64,"end":12257.64,"text":"的範圍非常的廣"},{"start":12257.64,"end":12259.64,"text":"不只是這一個"},{"start":12259.64,"end":12261.64,"text":"我們現行的這個"},{"start":12261.78,"end":12263.78,"text":"濱海健身型的跟濱海攻擊型"},{"start":12263.78,"end":12265.78,"text":"還有無人艇 那裡面"},{"start":12265.78,"end":12267.78,"text":"還會涉及到地面的"},{"start":12267.78,"end":12269.78,"text":"還有水下的"},{"start":12269.78,"end":12271.78,"text":"還有各式可能發展的這個相關的"},{"start":12271.78,"end":12273.78,"text":"這些項目"},{"start":12273.78,"end":12275.78,"text":"所以我個人認為"},{"start":12275.78,"end":12277.78,"text":"如果大家"},{"start":12277.78,"end":12279.78,"text":"把將所有"},{"start":12279.78,"end":12281.78,"text":"我們要採購的特定的這個"},{"start":12281.78,"end":12283.78,"text":"項目跟未來"},{"start":12283.78,"end":12285.78,"text":"可能在發展出來的"},{"start":12285.78,"end":12287.78,"text":"各種"},{"start":12287.05,"end":12289.05,"text":"不同的這些無人載具項目"},{"start":12289.05,"end":12291.05,"text":"甚至將國內自主"},{"start":12291.05,"end":12293.05,"text":"跟國外採購的部分"},{"start":12293.05,"end":12295.05,"text":"全部都混在一起來談"},{"start":12295.05,"end":12297.05,"text":"這件事情的話"},{"start":12297.05,"end":12299.05,"text":"幾乎是完全沒有一個明確的標的"},{"start":12299.05,"end":12301.05,"text":"在沒有明確的標的"},{"start":12301.05,"end":12303.05,"text":"的情況之下 這個"},{"start":12303.05,"end":12305.05,"text":"法案就會變得"},{"start":12305.85,"end":12307.85,"text":"就國防部的立場 我們"},{"start":12307.85,"end":12309.85,"text":"沒有辦法來確認"},{"start":12309.85,"end":12311.85,"text":"到底"},{"start":12311.91,"end":12313.91,"text":"應該通過這個條文"},{"start":12313.91,"end":12315.91,"text":"對我們的作戰需求"},{"start":12315.91,"end":12317.91,"text":"以及未來我們可能的發展"},{"start":12317.91,"end":12319.91,"text":"它到底"},{"start":12320.43,"end":12322.43,"text":"意義何在"},{"start":12322.43,"end":12324.43,"text":"那如果說是"},{"start":12324.43,"end":12326.43,"text":"著重於說可能各種的產業"},{"start":12326.43,"end":12328.43,"text":"發展的話"},{"start":12328.43,"end":12330.43,"text":"各種的產業發展的部分"},{"start":12331.15,"end":12333.15,"text":"我想這個就屬於經濟不應該的主觀"},{"start":12333.15,"end":12335.15,"text":"那我也一直在強調"},{"start":12335.15,"end":12337.15,"text":"我們國防"},{"start":12337.15,"end":12339.15,"text":"國防部及國防自主"},{"start":12339.15,"end":12341.15,"text":"我們採購的特定的項目"},{"start":12341.15,"end":12343.15,"text":"我們就希望陷在這個項目裡面"},{"start":12343.15,"end":12345.15,"text":"那剛剛有委員提到"},{"start":12345.15,"end":12347.15,"text":"這個賴斯堡委員的第一條"},{"start":12347.15,"end":12349.15,"text":"這個部分 我想"},{"start":12349.15,"end":12351.15,"text":"賴斯堡委員的第一條"},{"start":12351.15,"end":12353.15,"text":"它結合後面的條文"},{"start":12353.15,"end":12355.15,"text":"它著重的都是在於"},{"start":12355.15,"end":12357.15,"text":"其他的這些各種"},{"start":12357.15,"end":12359.15,"text":"可能比較"},{"start":12359.15,"end":12361.15,"text":"我們來講不是屬於一二類的"},{"start":12361.15,"end":12363.15,"text":"這些無人機 屬於大型的"},{"start":12363.15,"end":12365.15,"text":"這些的無人機"},{"start":12365.15,"end":12367.15,"text":"那這個也是"},{"start":12367.15,"end":12369.15,"text":"另外一種形態"},{"start":12369.15,"end":12371.15,"text":"那這種形態的無人機"},{"start":12371.15,"end":12373.15,"text":"是屬於我們放在"},{"start":12373.15,"end":12375.15,"text":"不管是購購過商購或均購"},{"start":12375.15,"end":12377.15,"text":"的項目裡面去"},{"start":12377.15,"end":12379.15,"text":"設計的"},{"start":12382.63,"end":12384.63,"text":"國外的商購的部分"},{"start":12384.63,"end":12386.63,"text":"或者是均購的這個部分"},{"start":12386.63,"end":12388.63,"text":"我們會另外以其他的預算"},{"start":12388.63,"end":12390.63,"text":"來補足 那我們強調的是"},{"start":12390.63,"end":12392.63,"text":"我們這一次的預算就強調在"},{"start":12392.63,"end":12394.63,"text":"這個特定的這幾"},{"start":12395.05,"end":12397.05,"text":"的這個無人機跟無人艇"},{"start":12397.05,"end":12399.05,"text":"然後強調在是我們"},{"start":12399.05,"end":12401.05,"text":"要強化防衛韌性所以要"},{"start":12401.05,"end":12403.05,"text":"完全的光這個自主"},{"start":12403.05,"end":12405.05,"text":"的產制 那所以這"},{"start":12405.05,"end":12407.05,"text":"兩個的目的是相當的"},{"start":12407.05,"end":12409.05,"text":"不一樣的 希望有一個"},{"start":12409.05,"end":12411.05,"text":"明顯的一個區隔"},{"start":12411.05,"end":12413.05,"text":"這個是廣布的"},{"start":12413.05,"end":12415.05,"text":"這個立場 那"},{"start":12415.05,"end":12417.05,"text":"希望各位"},{"start":12417.05,"end":12419.05,"text":"能夠支持"},{"start":12418.64,"end":12420.64,"text":"將我們所提在的這些"},{"start":12420.64,"end":12422.64,"text":"比較單純的這些採購項目"},{"start":12422.64,"end":12424.64,"text":"以特別條例的部分"},{"start":12424.64,"end":12426.64,"text":"然後後續會將特別預算案"},{"start":12426.64,"end":12428.64,"text":"送進來 那希望各位"},{"start":12428.64,"end":12430.64,"text":"委員能夠加以支持"},{"start":12431.63,"end":12433.63,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來總教兵委員"},{"start":12434.47,"end":12436.47,"text":"好 我一向很敬重我們顧部長"},{"start":12436.47,"end":12438.47,"text":"過去在第十屆我們第九屆"},{"start":12438.47,"end":12440.47,"text":"我們是立法院的同事 但是"},{"start":12440.47,"end":12442.47,"text":"我是覺得呢 我們在思考問題上"},{"start":12442.47,"end":12444.47,"text":"不要陷入了大"},{"start":12444.47,"end":12446.47,"text":"貓走大洞 小貓"},{"start":12446.47,"end":12448.47,"text":"走小洞 這個大家聽過這個"},{"start":12448.47,"end":12450.47,"text":"故事 愛因斯坦還是哪一個哲學家"},{"start":12450.47,"end":12452.47,"text":"科學家 他就"},{"start":12452.47,"end":12454.47,"text":"大貓要走大洞 小貓走小洞 其實你有了"},{"start":12454.47,"end":12456.47,"text":"大洞 大貓小貓都可以"},{"start":12456.47,"end":12458.47,"text":"鑽啊 那我來看一下"},{"start":12458.47,"end":12460.47,"text":"賴斯巴委員的提案 為什麼我會覺得他寫得也不錯"},{"start":12460.47,"end":12462.47,"text":"呢 因為他在第一條的部分他說"},{"start":12462.47,"end":12464.47,"text":"為強化我國情報"},{"start":12464.47,"end":12466.47,"text":"監視 偵查與精準"},{"start":12466.47,"end":12468.47,"text":"打擊 行政院版是說"},{"start":12468.47,"end":12470.47,"text":"要偵查及精準攻擊"},{"start":12470.47,"end":12472.47,"text":"只差兩項 他沒有"},{"start":12473.47,"end":12475.47,"text":"行政院版沒有情報跟監視"},{"start":12475.47,"end":12477.47,"text":"那我所知道的沒有錯"},{"start":12477.47,"end":12479.47,"text":"我長期在關注行政院的"},{"start":12479.47,"end":12481.47,"text":"預算 尤其在MQ9V"},{"start":12481.47,"end":12483.47,"text":"他就是屬於一種"},{"start":12483.47,"end":12485.47,"text":"比現在的高空預警機"},{"start":12485.47,"end":12487.47,"text":"他更具有高空的一個偵查"},{"start":12487.47,"end":12489.47,"text":"能力 他也可以"},{"start":12489.47,"end":12491.47,"text":"監視能力也可以做"},{"start":12491.47,"end":12493.47,"text":"有情報的一個輸送"},{"start":12493.24,"end":12495.24,"text":"但是"},{"start":12494.51,"end":12496.51,"text":"賴斯巴委員的這四個項目就像是大洞一樣"},{"start":12496.51,"end":12498.51,"text":"那今天"},{"start":12498.51,"end":12500.51,"text":"部長說 我只要兩項 我只要一個小洞"},{"start":12500.51,"end":12502.51,"text":"你不要給我大洞"},{"start":12502.51,"end":12504.51,"text":"難道小貓可以鑽小洞"},{"start":12504.51,"end":12506.51,"text":"小貓不能走大洞嗎"},{"start":12506.51,"end":12508.51,"text":"如果這個特別預算能夠給"},{"start":12508.51,"end":12510.51,"text":"行政院獲制 那你要拿去"},{"start":12510.51,"end":12512.51,"text":"集中在買偵查及"},{"start":12512.51,"end":12514.51,"text":"精準攻擊 這裡沒有妨礙啊"},{"start":12515.23,"end":12517.23,"text":"沒有妨礙啊"},{"start":12517.23,"end":12519.23,"text":"賴委員他比較寬"},{"start":12519.23,"end":12521.23,"text":"他說我給你的這個特別預算"},{"start":12521.23,"end":12523.23,"text":"你可以去做情報監視"},{"start":12523.23,"end":12525.23,"text":"這個是MQ9V的"},{"start":12525.23,"end":12527.23,"text":"或者說偵查或精準打擊"},{"start":12527.23,"end":12529.23,"text":"這就涉及到自殺無人機"},{"start":12529.23,"end":12531.23,"text":"的一個作為 那這個兩不衝突"},{"start":12531.23,"end":12533.23,"text":"倒是呢 我這邊既然討論"},{"start":12533.23,"end":12535.23,"text":"條文 我也不是完全無條件"},{"start":12535.23,"end":12537.23,"text":"接受賴委員的版本"},{"start":12537.23,"end":12539.23,"text":"我也是覺得這裡面有一個名詞"},{"start":12539.23,"end":12541.23,"text":"很重要 一個叫做飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12541.23,"end":12543.23,"text":"這個飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12543.23,"end":12545.23,"text":"目前世界上各國"},{"start":12545.23,"end":12547.23,"text":"好像成為一個共識"},{"start":12547.23,"end":12549.23,"text":"但在法律條文當中"},{"start":12549.23,"end":12551.23,"text":"它並沒有被定義 鴻是哪些"},{"start":12551.04,"end":12553.04,"text":"是PRZ是紅嗎"},{"start":12553.61,"end":12555.61,"text":"中國人民共和國是紅嗎"},{"start":12556.74,"end":12558.74,"text":"越南是不是紅"},{"start":12558.57,"end":12560.57,"text":"我就不清楚越南是不是紅啦"},{"start":12560.57,"end":12562.57,"text":"今天不算算不算紅"},{"start":12562.01,"end":12564.01,"text":"這個我也不清楚啊"},{"start":12564.01,"end":12566.01,"text":"倒是賴委員這邊寫的"},{"start":12566.01,"end":12568.01,"text":"結合美國及其他國家"},{"start":12568.01,"end":12570.01,"text":"好 那如果我們把美國"},{"start":12570.01,"end":12572.01,"text":"放進去 美國絕對不是紅"},{"start":12572.01,"end":12574.01,"text":"那美國及"},{"start":12574.13,"end":12576.13,"text":"其他同盟國家的話"},{"start":12576.13,"end":12578.13,"text":"加同盟兩個字"},{"start":12578.13,"end":12580.13,"text":"那我們就會確定呢 這個美國及"},{"start":12580.13,"end":12582.13,"text":"其他同盟國家 就符合"},{"start":12582.13,"end":12584.13,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈的概念"},{"start":12584.13,"end":12586.13,"text":"因為基本上目前有跟美國"},{"start":12586.13,"end":12588.13,"text":"有同盟關係的 像日本"},{"start":12588.13,"end":12590.13,"text":"像菲律賓"},{"start":12590.13,"end":12592.13,"text":"這些呢 都跟美國還有"},{"start":12592.13,"end":12594.13,"text":"那個我們的這個北約"},{"start":12594.13,"end":12596.13,"text":"它都是屬於啊 跟美國"},{"start":12596.13,"end":12598.13,"text":"有同盟關係的 那跟美國"},{"start":12598.13,"end":12600.13,"text":"同盟關係的目前沒有看到"},{"start":12600.13,"end":12602.13,"text":"有所謂被認知為紅的部分"},{"start":12602.13,"end":12604.13,"text":"所以如果以這個條件來講"},{"start":12604.13,"end":12606.13,"text":"如果要把行政院版的飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12606.13,"end":12608.13,"text":"更精準的 不用法律名詞"},{"start":12608.13,"end":12610.13,"text":"去解釋 不用在條文裡面另外解釋"},{"start":12610.13,"end":12612.13,"text":"我們把它放在"},{"start":12612.13,"end":12614.13,"text":"賴志寶版本委員的那個"},{"start":12614.13,"end":12616.13,"text":"結合美國及其他同盟國家"},{"start":12616.13,"end":12618.13,"text":"這樣的話 大概就"},{"start":12618.13,"end":12620.13,"text":"滿足了飛鴻供應鏈的要求"},{"start":12620.13,"end":12622.13,"text":"那至於其他的國防部擔心說"},{"start":12622.13,"end":12624.13,"text":"還有什麼 服以"},{"start":12624.13,"end":12626.13,"text":"技術移轉及工業合作"},{"start":12626.13,"end":12628.13,"text":"這個其實也是給多一個選項嘛"},{"start":12628.13,"end":12630.13,"text":"所以我是覺得說"},{"start":12630.13,"end":12632.13,"text":"賴委員的版本可取之處"},{"start":12632.13,"end":12634.13,"text":"它是大洞 大貓小貓都可以鑽"},{"start":12634.13,"end":12636.13,"text":"行政院目前第一條的需求是小貓"},{"start":12636.13,"end":12638.13,"text":"你可以走大洞"},{"start":12638.13,"end":12640.13,"text":"所以事實上不用去排斥"},{"start":12640.13,"end":12642.13,"text":"賴委員多了一個情報跟監視"},{"start":12642.13,"end":12644.13,"text":"未來採購的主導權還是在行政院"},{"start":12644.13,"end":12646.13,"text":"那至於飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12646.13,"end":12648.13,"text":"是否能改以美國及其他同盟國家"},{"start":12648.13,"end":12650.13,"text":"這樣就很明確了"},{"start":12650.13,"end":12652.13,"text":"以上建議"},{"start":12653.64,"end":12655.64,"text":"好"},{"start":12654.89,"end":12656.89,"text":"看起來那個國民黨團這邊"},{"start":12656.89,"end":12658.89,"text":"還有沒有"},{"start":12661.34,"end":12663.34,"text":"好"},{"start":12662.23,"end":12664.23,"text":"好"},{"start":12665.59,"end":12667.59,"text":"來來來"},{"start":12667.02,"end":12669.02,"text":"王安祥"},{"start":12671.29,"end":12673.29,"text":"王安祥"},{"start":12672.91,"end":12674.91,"text":"王安祥委員有沒有"},{"start":12674.65,"end":12676.65,"text":"沒有"},{"start":12675.71,"end":12677.71,"text":"這也是可以"},{"start":12680.66,"end":12682.66,"text":"國民黨團的提案的版本"},{"start":12683.95,"end":12685.95,"text":"是"},{"start":12685.79,"end":12687.79,"text":"按照國民黨團"},{"start":12687.79,"end":12689.79,"text":"好"},{"start":12690.46,"end":12692.46,"text":"那這樣好了"},{"start":12692.46,"end":12694.46,"text":"因為看起來就是有三個堅持"},{"start":12694.46,"end":12696.46,"text":"國民黨團 黨團提案"},{"start":12696.46,"end":12698.46,"text":"另外台灣"},{"start":12698.09,"end":12700.09,"text":"剛剛講了"},{"start":12699.47,"end":12701.47,"text":"最後你要再發表嗎"},{"start":12701.47,"end":12703.47,"text":"沒有"},{"start":12702.78,"end":12704.78,"text":"台灣民眾黨團的提案"},{"start":12704.78,"end":12706.78,"text":"有它的一個堅持"},{"start":12706.78,"end":12708.78,"text":"再來就是委員外事導這邊"},{"start":12710.93,"end":12712.93,"text":"沒有他們都有啊"},{"start":12713.02,"end":12715.02,"text":"他剛沒有講"},{"start":12715.84,"end":12717.84,"text":"好"},{"start":12717.84,"end":12719.84,"text":"所以基本上我們就是這三個版本"},{"start":12719.84,"end":12721.84,"text":"看起來也是沒有共識"},{"start":12721.84,"end":12723.84,"text":"所以第一條"},{"start":12724.06,"end":12726.06,"text":"這三個版本的提案"},{"start":12726.06,"end":12728.06,"text":"均保留"},{"start":12728.06,"end":12730.06,"text":"行政院版的要不要"},{"start":12730.06,"end":12732.06,"text":"你們要不要說話"},{"start":12732.46,"end":12734.46,"text":"不是我說"},{"start":12734.46,"end":12736.46,"text":"你要保留"},{"start":12736.46,"end":12738.46,"text":"你要保留"},{"start":12738.46,"end":12740.46,"text":"就會變成是全部保留"},{"start":12740.46,"end":12742.46,"text":"今天主席"},{"start":12742.46,"end":12744.46,"text":"就是想要保留出委員會"},{"start":12744.46,"end":12746.46,"text":"這樣符合賴委員"},{"start":12746.46,"end":12748.46,"text":"部長"},{"start":12748.12,"end":12750.12,"text":"不用啦"},{"start":12750.12,"end":12752.12,"text":"他們立委有沒有支持"},{"start":12752.12,"end":12754.12,"text":"行政院的版本"},{"start":12754.12,"end":12756.12,"text":"有人支持"},{"start":12756.51,"end":12760.51,"text":"好 那第一條所有版本的提案均保留"},{"start":12766.74,"end":12768.74,"text":"進行第二條"},{"start":12769.28,"end":12771.28,"text":"請這個"},{"start":12777.92,"end":12779.92,"text":"那麼"},{"start":12779.22,"end":12781.22,"text":"那個就併在一起就好"},{"start":12783.56,"end":12785.56,"text":"那是老委員的第二條"},{"start":12785.56,"end":12787.56,"text":"那個需要嗎"},{"start":12788.57,"end":12790.57,"text":"那是老委員你的那個"},{"start":12793.03,"end":12795.03,"text":"不是"},{"start":12795.03,"end":12797.03,"text":"他有一個無人宅具產業升級發展的第一條完之後"},{"start":12797.03,"end":12799.03,"text":"他在事保員那個的第二條"},{"start":12801.2,"end":12803.2,"text":"那個是單獨的"},{"start":12803.69,"end":12805.69,"text":"這兩個分開啦"},{"start":12805.69,"end":12807.69,"text":"這兩個案子嘛 我提兩個案子嘛"},{"start":12807.69,"end":12809.69,"text":"一個案子是這個國防部、經濟部"},{"start":12809.69,"end":12811.69,"text":"現在就一起審查嘛"},{"start":12811.69,"end":12813.69,"text":"就看大家的意見"},{"start":12814.07,"end":12816.07,"text":"那就是保留的"},{"start":12817.58,"end":12819.58,"text":"現在賴事保委員又說他提了兩個案子"},{"start":12819.58,"end":12821.58,"text":"那兩個案子要分開審查"},{"start":12821.58,"end":12823.58,"text":"沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":12823.58,"end":12825.58,"text":"他就一起審"},{"start":12825.58,"end":12827.58,"text":"你現在到底是要一起還是要分開"},{"start":12827.58,"end":12829.58,"text":"你是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":12829.58,"end":12831.58,"text":"所以你就回到我剛剛講嘛"},{"start":12831.58,"end":12833.58,"text":"因為就一起審查"},{"start":12833.58,"end":12835.58,"text":"因為與會交保"},{"start":12835.58,"end":12837.58,"text":"你的採購的主管機關"},{"start":12837.58,"end":12839.58,"text":"一定是國防部嘛"},{"start":12839.58,"end":12841.58,"text":"你的產業發展條例的主管機關"},{"start":12841.58,"end":12843.58,"text":"一定是經濟部嘛"},{"start":12843.58,"end":12845.58,"text":"你的兩個案子怎麼放在一起審"},{"start":12845.58,"end":12847.58,"text":"現在又說兩個要分開"},{"start":12847.7,"end":12850.7,"text":"又說要分開"},{"start":12851.52,"end":12853.52,"text":"到底是要一起還是要分開"},{"start":12854.23,"end":12857.23,"text":"我現在因為與會交辦下來要一起審"},{"start":12857.23,"end":12858.23,"text":"不要"},{"start":12858.23,"end":12860.23,"text":"就是你們強制表決亂搞啦"},{"start":12860.23,"end":12862.23,"text":"與會交辦下來要一起審"},{"start":12862.23,"end":12864.23,"text":"你現在到第二層你就完全打官了嘛"},{"start":12866.55,"end":12868.55,"text":"國防採購一定是在國防部主管嘛"},{"start":12868.55,"end":12870.55,"text":"現在就這樣子"},{"start":12870.55,"end":12872.55,"text":"你知道第二層就卡關了嘛"},{"start":12872.55,"end":12874.55,"text":"你現在跟人一起又要分開"},{"start":12874.55,"end":12876.55,"text":"到底是要怎麼審呢"},{"start":12879.21,"end":12881.21,"text":"來 政天才會"},{"start":12881.37,"end":12883.37,"text":"沒有 我現在是說"},{"start":12883.37,"end":12885.37,"text":"因為他這個根據"},{"start":12884.57,"end":12886.57,"text":"在那個第三頁的上面"},{"start":12886.57,"end":12888.57,"text":"那委員他的這個"},{"start":12888.57,"end":12890.57,"text":"有一個版本的第二條"},{"start":12890.57,"end":12891.57,"text":"那個也是一併保留"},{"start":12891.57,"end":12893.57,"text":"我只是要宣告這樣子而已"},{"start":12893.57,"end":12895.57,"text":"然後接下來才進到我們的第二條"},{"start":12895.57,"end":12897.57,"text":"所以不要誤會"},{"start":12897.57,"end":12899.57,"text":"這樣清楚嗎"},{"start":12899.57,"end":12901.57,"text":"現在到第二條嗎"},{"start":12901.57,"end":12903.57,"text":"對 行政院版的第二條開始"},{"start":12903.19,"end":12905.19,"text":"好 這個"},{"start":12905.92,"end":12907.92,"text":"行政院版的第二條"},{"start":12908.77,"end":12910.77,"text":"對 保留"},{"start":12912.2,"end":12914.2,"text":"第一條啦"},{"start":12914.2,"end":12916.2,"text":"他在問第一條"},{"start":12916.2,"end":12918.2,"text":"不要緊張 第一條"},{"start":12917.75,"end":12919.75,"text":"現在開始要進行是"},{"start":12921.6,"end":12923.6,"text":"嗯"},{"start":12923.24,"end":12925.24,"text":"保留"},{"start":12924.18,"end":12926.18,"text":"接下來我們進行的是"},{"start":12926.18,"end":12928.18,"text":"行政院版的第二條開始討論"},{"start":12928.18,"end":12930.18,"text":"就是你們手上的第三頁下半部這裡"},{"start":12931.93,"end":12933.93,"text":"好"},{"start":12933.65,"end":12935.65,"text":"直接可以發言了嗎"},{"start":12935.65,"end":12937.65,"text":"可以 好"},{"start":12937.21,"end":12939.21,"text":"政天才會"},{"start":12938.91,"end":12940.91,"text":"有關這個"},{"start":12940.85,"end":12942.85,"text":"主管機關"},{"start":12943.59,"end":12945.59,"text":"主管機關如果我們從這個"},{"start":12945.59,"end":12947.59,"text":"無論是行政院版本"},{"start":12947.59,"end":12949.59,"text":"或者是國民黨團的版本"},{"start":12949.59,"end":12951.59,"text":"或者是民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":12952.61,"end":12954.61,"text":"如果我們從法律名稱來看"},{"start":12955.87,"end":12957.87,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":12957.87,"end":12959.87,"text":"無人宰計"},{"start":12959.87,"end":12961.87,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":12961.27,"end":12963.27,"text":"所以在這樣的一個前提之下"},{"start":12963.99,"end":12965.99,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":12965.99,"end":12967.99,"text":"那當然就要由經濟部"},{"start":12967.99,"end":12969.99,"text":"哈哈哈哈"},{"start":12970.42,"end":12972.42,"text":"好對不起我笑太大聲了"},{"start":12972.42,"end":12974.42,"text":"為什麼呢"},{"start":12974.47,"end":12976.47,"text":"好我來說"},{"start":12976.31,"end":12978.31,"text":"因為要自己"},{"start":12978.62,"end":12980.62,"text":"慘了要自己"},{"start":12980.8,"end":12982.8,"text":"生產啊"},{"start":12982.74,"end":12984.74,"text":"要自己生產"},{"start":12984.74,"end":12986.74,"text":"國防部有辦法自己生產嗎"},{"start":12987.9,"end":12989.9,"text":"國防自主就是要自己生產啊"},{"start":12990.99,"end":12992.99,"text":"所以要由經濟部"},{"start":12992.99,"end":12994.99,"text":"何況"},{"start":12994.99,"end":12996.99,"text":"何況"},{"start":12997.77,"end":12999.77,"text":"這個行政院本來就有一個計劃"},{"start":13001.57,"end":13003.57,"text":"無人宰計的一個計劃"},{"start":13004.47,"end":13006.47,"text":"這個主管機關就是經濟部"},{"start":13006.47,"end":13008.47,"text":"那我們現在的"},{"start":13008.47,"end":13010.47,"text":"就是要把這個"},{"start":13011.64,"end":13013.64,"text":"行政院的一個"},{"start":13013.64,"end":13015.64,"text":"無人宰計的一個計劃"},{"start":13015.64,"end":13017.64,"text":"提升為法律的位階"},{"start":13018.29,"end":13020.29,"text":"讓他能夠"},{"start":13020.01,"end":13022.01,"text":"能夠有法律的一個地位"},{"start":13022.01,"end":13024.01,"text":"然後能夠預算"},{"start":13024.01,"end":13026.01,"text":"能夠非常的"},{"start":13026.01,"end":13028.01,"text":"能夠確保"},{"start":13028.13,"end":13030.13,"text":"所以"},{"start":13029.58,"end":13031.58,"text":"既然是這樣"},{"start":13031.58,"end":13033.58,"text":"我們應該就是要以這個"},{"start":13033.58,"end":13035.58,"text":"國民黨團的提案或是民眾黨團"},{"start":13035.58,"end":13037.58,"text":"的提案的地"},{"start":13037.9,"end":13039.9,"text":"有關主管機關的部分"},{"start":13041.07,"end":13043.07,"text":"就是要由經濟部作為一個主管機關"},{"start":13043.07,"end":13045.07,"text":"那國防部跟經濟部"},{"start":13045.07,"end":13047.07,"text":"這一個怎麼樣去"},{"start":13047.07,"end":13049.07,"text":"如果按照國民黨"},{"start":13049.07,"end":13051.07,"text":"的版本的話"},{"start":13051.07,"end":13053.07,"text":"經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":13053.07,"end":13055.07,"text":"也都是主辦的一個機關"},{"start":13055.07,"end":13057.07,"text":"那怎麼樣去"},{"start":13057.39,"end":13059.39,"text":"執行我們後面的條文"},{"start":13059.39,"end":13061.39,"text":"就可以有更好的一個"},{"start":13061.39,"end":13063.39,"text":"討論"},{"start":13063.39,"end":13065.39,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":13066.2,"end":13068.2,"text":"好 沒事吧委員再來六十"},{"start":13070.12,"end":13072.12,"text":"我強調一下"},{"start":13072.12,"end":13074.12,"text":"也感謝民進黨"},{"start":13074.12,"end":13076.12,"text":"先進的支持我的版本"},{"start":13076.12,"end":13078.12,"text":"然後製造我的矛盾"},{"start":13078.12,"end":13080.12,"text":"實在一點都沒有矛盾"},{"start":13080.12,"end":13082.12,"text":"因為今天在經濟委員會主審"},{"start":13082.12,"end":13084.12,"text":"就是經濟委員會為主管"},{"start":13084.12,"end":13086.12,"text":"他為經濟部"},{"start":13086.12,"end":13088.12,"text":"然後你可以有一個國防採購"},{"start":13088.12,"end":13090.12,"text":"專章"},{"start":13089.51,"end":13091.51,"text":"我的五百億就可以放進來了"},{"start":13091.82,"end":13093.82,"text":"就這麼簡單的事情"},{"start":13093.82,"end":13095.82,"text":"這立法技術"},{"start":13095.82,"end":13097.82,"text":"民進黨委員都在這裡"},{"start":13097.82,"end":13099.82,"text":"老鳥也不是菜鳥"},{"start":13099.82,"end":13101.82,"text":"都很清楚知道"},{"start":13101.82,"end":13103.82,"text":"這個立法技術都可以處理的"},{"start":13103.82,"end":13105.82,"text":"就是我的兩個案子可以變為一個"},{"start":13105.82,"end":13107.82,"text":"但是精神要都有"},{"start":13107.82,"end":13109.82,"text":"老鳥"},{"start":13109.02,"end":13111.02,"text":"我這裡面就是在經濟部主導底下"},{"start":13111.02,"end":13113.02,"text":"然後"},{"start":13113.02,"end":13115.02,"text":"一個專章叫國防採購專章"},{"start":13115.02,"end":13117.02,"text":"或者國防自主"},{"start":13117.02,"end":13119.02,"text":"採購專章都可以"},{"start":13119.02,"end":13121.02,"text":"裡面就把它放進來"},{"start":13121.02,"end":13123.02,"text":"那有什麼問題"},{"start":13123.02,"end":13125.02,"text":"所以不需要說一定要扯這個"},{"start":13125.02,"end":13127.02,"text":"一定要分開兩個等等的"},{"start":13127.02,"end":13129.02,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":13128.36,"end":13130.36,"text":"我們是希望這個法案"},{"start":13130.36,"end":13132.36,"text":"越快通過越好"},{"start":13132.36,"end":13134.36,"text":"而且不要忘了"},{"start":13134.03,"end":13139.03,"text":"國民黨的這個黨版是兩千四百億喔"},{"start":13139.03,"end":13142.03,"text":"如果加上再五百億就兩千九百億喔"},{"start":13142.75,"end":13144.75,"text":"比這個公務長列的兩千一百億"},{"start":13144.75,"end":13146.75,"text":"多太多太多喔"},{"start":13146.75,"end":13148.75,"text":"這個東西是不是讓案子早一點過"},{"start":13148.75,"end":13150.75,"text":"可能比這個"},{"start":13150.75,"end":13152.75,"text":"比什麼都重要啦"},{"start":13152.75,"end":13154.75,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":13154.36,"end":13156.36,"text":"我的七年檢案沒有矛盾"},{"start":13156.69,"end":13158.69,"text":"沒有矛盾"},{"start":13158.69,"end":13160.69,"text":"經濟部主導"},{"start":13160.69,"end":13162.69,"text":"國防部的採購放在裡面的專章就夠"},{"start":13164.17,"end":13166.17,"text":"好,接下來我們請劉樹斌委"},{"start":13166.17,"end":13168.17,"text":"好,謝謝主席"},{"start":13167.96,"end":13169.96,"text":"本黨的版本當中"},{"start":13169.96,"end":13171.96,"text":"現在針對"},{"start":13171.96,"end":13173.96,"text":"行政院的第二條呢"},{"start":13173.96,"end":13175.96,"text":"我們是在第三條"},{"start":13175.96,"end":13177.96,"text":"呼應到我們本黨的整個設計規劃"},{"start":13177.96,"end":13179.96,"text":"是它要是一個"},{"start":13179.96,"end":13181.96,"text":"軍民通用還是"},{"start":13181.96,"end":13183.96,"text":"可以進到國際供應鏈"},{"start":13183.96,"end":13185.96,"text":"我們已經講過了"},{"start":13185.08,"end":13187.08,"text":"有一個產業的確是"},{"start":13187.08,"end":13189.08,"text":"有發展的可行性"},{"start":13189.08,"end":13191.08,"text":"這個產業的可能性"},{"start":13191.08,"end":13193.08,"text":"必須要是有強烈的民用"},{"start":13193.08,"end":13195.08,"text":"包括支持到"},{"start":13195.08,"end":13197.08,"text":"軍軍的部分喔"},{"start":13197.08,"end":13199.08,"text":"所以我們的產業"},{"start":13199.08,"end":13201.08,"text":"為主的跟國防自主在一起"},{"start":13201.08,"end":13203.08,"text":"的內容上面"},{"start":13203.08,"end":13205.08,"text":"就有兩個主管機關"},{"start":13205.08,"end":13207.08,"text":"在中央主管機關的經濟部"},{"start":13207.08,"end":13209.08,"text":"那涉及到,特別拉出來是"},{"start":13209.08,"end":13211.08,"text":"經濟國防的運用事項"},{"start":13211.08,"end":13213.08,"text":"就是國防部"},{"start":13213.08,"end":13215.08,"text":"大家可以看到說我們的"},{"start":13215.08,"end":13217.08,"text":"委員他們自己的選區在這邊"},{"start":13217.08,"end":13219.08,"text":"在地方也非常重要"},{"start":13219.08,"end":13221.08,"text":"也是產業的一個大本營"},{"start":13221.08,"end":13223.08,"text":"所以涉及到地方的部分"},{"start":13223.08,"end":13225.08,"text":"就是各縣市的政府"},{"start":13225.08,"end":13227.08,"text":"這邊特別再講到說"},{"start":13227.08,"end":13229.08,"text":"裡面的涉及到有關"},{"start":13229.08,"end":13231.08,"text":"飛航的安全等等"},{"start":13231.08,"end":13233.08,"text":"這邊就是還是有區域差異"},{"start":13233.08,"end":13235.08,"text":"也把它做了一個區分"},{"start":13235.08,"end":13237.08,"text":"這邊不是沒有利可循"},{"start":13237.08,"end":13239.08,"text":"就在於說因為在"},{"start":13239.08,"end":13241.08,"text":"文化資產的"},{"start":13241.08,"end":13243.08,"text":"條例當中我們看一下喔"},{"start":13243.08,"end":13245.08,"text":"等我一下"},{"start":13245.17,"end":13247.17,"text":"在文化資產保存法當中"},{"start":13247.17,"end":13249.17,"text":"就有這樣的一個情況"},{"start":13249.17,"end":13251.17,"text":"中央機關機關是文化部"},{"start":13251.17,"end":13253.17,"text":"但是在設,而且有地方的"},{"start":13253.17,"end":13255.17,"text":"這個主管機關喔"},{"start":13255.17,"end":13257.17,"text":"在直轄市各縣市等等"},{"start":13257.17,"end":13259.17,"text":"但是如果在文化資產的領域當中"},{"start":13259.17,"end":13261.17,"text":"它是涉及到自然地景"},{"start":13261.17,"end":13263.17,"text":"跟自然紀念物的話"},{"start":13263.17,"end":13265.17,"text":"在中央的話就是"},{"start":13265.17,"end":13267.17,"text":"為農業部"},{"start":13267.17,"end":13269.17,"text":"那如果是海域的"},{"start":13269.17,"end":13271.17,"text":"文化資產保護的地方"},{"start":13271.17,"end":13273.17,"text":"它的主管機關就是海巡署"},{"start":13273.17,"end":13275.17,"text":"所以我們也是很認真的就"},{"start":13275.17,"end":13277.17,"text":"它可能的"},{"start":13277.17,"end":13279.17,"text":"可能相關的主管機關都負責了一些"},{"start":13279.17,"end":13281.17,"text":"包括中央跟地方"},{"start":13281.17,"end":13283.17,"text":"一起來把推動這樣的無人機產業"},{"start":13283.17,"end":13285.17,"text":"包括無人機的國防的自主來去"},{"start":13285.17,"end":13287.17,"text":"鼓勵,請大家支持"},{"start":13288.38,"end":13290.38,"text":"好,終究要邊圍"},{"start":13290.66,"end":13292.66,"text":"好,剛聽完劉委員的發言"},{"start":13292.66,"end":13294.66,"text":"你不用擔心"},{"start":13294.66,"end":13296.66,"text":"因為你們是第三條"},{"start":13296.66,"end":13298.66,"text":"在講主管機關,國民黨團是第二條"},{"start":13298.66,"end":13300.66,"text":"再反過來"},{"start":13300.66,"end":13302.66,"text":"國民黨第三條在講民事定義"},{"start":13302.66,"end":13304.66,"text":"你們是第二條民事定義,待會就會審到,不用緊張"},{"start":13304.66,"end":13306.66,"text":"那到底是在市府"},{"start":13306.66,"end":13308.66,"text":"我在講二環講主管機關"},{"start":13308.66,"end":13310.66,"text":"那主管機關"},{"start":13310.66,"end":13312.66,"text":"目前大部分的條文本都在第二條"},{"start":13312.66,"end":13314.66,"text":"那第二條當中我仔細看了一下"},{"start":13314.66,"end":13316.66,"text":"我還是願意再度的"},{"start":13316.66,"end":13318.66,"text":"釋出一個好的善意"},{"start":13318.66,"end":13320.66,"text":"就是我們能夠互相退讓"},{"start":13320.66,"end":13322.66,"text":"才能夠有共識版本"},{"start":13322.66,"end":13324.66,"text":"那我還是再次的提到"},{"start":13324.66,"end":13326.66,"text":"賴志寶委員的版本"},{"start":13326.66,"end":13328.66,"text":"他雖然寫本條例自主管機關為國防部"},{"start":13328.66,"end":13330.66,"text":"他第一項是這樣寫,大概大部分都是這樣"},{"start":13330.66,"end":13332.66,"text":"但是第二項他也提到了"},{"start":13332.66,"end":13334.66,"text":"本條例所定之技術"},{"start":13334.66,"end":13336.66,"text":"移轉工業合作及產業"},{"start":13336.66,"end":13338.66,"text":"升級四項,由國防部"},{"start":13338.66,"end":13340.66,"text":"會同經濟部辦理"},{"start":13340.66,"end":13342.66,"text":"這個說的倒是沒有錯"},{"start":13342.66,"end":13344.66,"text":"如果這樣條例除了採購之外"},{"start":13344.66,"end":13346.66,"text":"因為他的目的,在賴委員的版本第一條"},{"start":13346.66,"end":13350.66,"text":"他就有包含未來希望能夠帶動產業的發展"},{"start":13350.66,"end":13352.66,"text":"所以這時候由國防部來會同經濟部"},{"start":13352.66,"end":13354.66,"text":"這是OK的"},{"start":13354.66,"end":13356.66,"text":"不過我對於後半段就認為"},{"start":13356.66,"end":13358.66,"text":"可以商榷,並得邀請"},{"start":13358.66,"end":13360.66,"text":"國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":13362.13,"end":13364.13,"text":"部會來協同推動"},{"start":13364.13,"end":13366.13,"text":"這也還可以"},{"start":13366.13,"end":13368.13,"text":"因為共同辦理跟協助推動"},{"start":13368.13,"end":13370.13,"text":"這是一樣"},{"start":13370.13,"end":13374.13,"text":"但是把國家中山科學研究院及相關法人業界"},{"start":13374.13,"end":13376.13,"text":"這個就是多此一舉啦"},{"start":13376.13,"end":13378.13,"text":"因為在我們的立法例當中"},{"start":13378.13,"end":13380.13,"text":"在條文當中"},{"start":13380.13,"end":13382.13,"text":"要明定主管機關之外"},{"start":13382.13,"end":13384.13,"text":"在行政院如果有其他部會可以參與的話"},{"start":13384.13,"end":13386.13,"text":"要以部會層級來表達"},{"start":13386.13,"end":13388.13,"text":"所以本條例"},{"start":13388.13,"end":13390.13,"text":"他這裡所說的,由國防部會同經濟部辦理"},{"start":13390.13,"end":13392.13,"text":"辦理什麼呢?"},{"start":13392.13,"end":13394.13,"text":"辦理技術移轉,辦理工業合作"},{"start":13394.13,"end":13396.13,"text":"辦理產業升級,這個堪稱隱蕩"},{"start":13396.13,"end":13398.13,"text":"那如果還要再加上一個"},{"start":13398.13,"end":13400.13,"text":"國科會來協助"},{"start":13400.13,"end":13402.13,"text":"協同推動"},{"start":13402.13,"end":13404.13,"text":"在立法例上來講,同事部會等級,這OK"},{"start":13404.13,"end":13406.13,"text":"但是你把一個法人"},{"start":13406.13,"end":13408.13,"text":"放在這個條文裡面"},{"start":13408.13,"end":13410.13,"text":"就顯得有點不倫不類啦"},{"start":13410.13,"end":13412.13,"text":"所以我是建議陳可的建議"},{"start":13412.13,"end":13414.13,"text":"雖然我肯定賴委員的提案內容"},{"start":13414.13,"end":13416.13,"text":"比較包容比較寬"},{"start":13416.13,"end":13418.13,"text":"但是我還是要提出來"},{"start":13418.13,"end":13420.13,"text":"如果要採用賴委員版本的第二條"},{"start":13420.13,"end":13422.13,"text":"不曉得國防部可不可以接受"},{"start":13422.13,"end":13424.13,"text":"還有經濟部可不可以接受"},{"start":13424.13,"end":13426.13,"text":"如果只是把他的第二項"},{"start":13426.13,"end":13428.13,"text":"經濟部放進去,共同辦"},{"start":13428.13,"end":13430.13,"text":"會同經濟部辦理,以及國科會"},{"start":13430.13,"end":13432.13,"text":"協同推動放進去"},{"start":13432.13,"end":13434.13,"text":"不曉得國防部跟經濟部的意見態度怎麼樣"},{"start":13434.13,"end":13436.13,"text":"請主席處理"},{"start":13439.13,"end":13441.13,"text":"來"},{"start":13439.99,"end":13441.99,"text":"我先表達我的意見"},{"start":13441.99,"end":13443.99,"text":"其實"},{"start":13443.99,"end":13445.99,"text":"因為我覺得你做一個產業的發展"},{"start":13445.99,"end":13447.99,"text":"因為當時在這一個"},{"start":13447.99,"end":13449.99,"text":"國防的自主的時候"},{"start":13451.21,"end":13453.21,"text":"我們的部長都說過"},{"start":13453.21,"end":13455.21,"text":"這個就是你要"},{"start":13455.21,"end":13457.21,"text":"百分之百的國產化"},{"start":13457.21,"end":13459.21,"text":"國內自主產制"},{"start":13459.21,"end":13461.21,"text":"所以基本上來講的話"},{"start":13461.21,"end":13463.21,"text":"我是覺得你這個東西"},{"start":13463.21,"end":13465.21,"text":"就是為一個需求,需求規格"},{"start":13465.21,"end":13467.21,"text":"當然是國防部開"},{"start":13467.21,"end":13469.21,"text":"但是整個產業的研究升級"},{"start":13469.21,"end":13471.21,"text":"發展的話,基本上你怎麼"},{"start":13471.21,"end":13473.21,"text":"去促進這個國防規格的滿足"},{"start":13473.21,"end":13475.21,"text":"那是經濟部要去主導"},{"start":13475.21,"end":13477.21,"text":"所以在這裡頭的話"},{"start":13477.21,"end":13479.21,"text":"本黨團當然就是主管機關"},{"start":13479.21,"end":13481.21,"text":"所以我們認識經濟部"},{"start":13481.21,"end":13483.21,"text":"但是你涉及國防運用"},{"start":13483.21,"end":13485.21,"text":"是國防部"},{"start":13484.22,"end":13486.22,"text":"所以這位是跟王定宇委員的"},{"start":13486.22,"end":13488.22,"text":"也是一樣"},{"start":13488.22,"end":13490.22,"text":"王定宇委員的話,中央主管機關"},{"start":13490.22,"end":13492.22,"text":"是經濟部,涉及國防等等"},{"start":13492.22,"end":13494.22,"text":"採購,或者是我們講"},{"start":13494.22,"end":13496.22,"text":"是國防部"},{"start":13495.95,"end":13497.95,"text":"那國民黨團的提案來講"},{"start":13497.95,"end":13499.95,"text":"就是經濟部,只是在家主辦"},{"start":13499.95,"end":13501.95,"text":"所以主辦的話"},{"start":13501.95,"end":13503.95,"text":"基本上主辦機關有經濟部、國防部"},{"start":13503.95,"end":13505.95,"text":"這些都有法令可循"},{"start":13505.95,"end":13507.95,"text":"所以我是覺得"},{"start":13507.95,"end":13509.95,"text":"你要國產自治化"},{"start":13509.95,"end":13511.95,"text":"從我們的研發升級"},{"start":13511.95,"end":13513.95,"text":"跟產業輔導,那是經濟部"},{"start":13513.95,"end":13515.95,"text":"眾多政府部會"},{"start":13515.95,"end":13517.95,"text":"包括軍事規格的"},{"start":13517.95,"end":13519.95,"text":"制定,那可能是"},{"start":13519.95,"end":13521.95,"text":"國防,其他部會當然就為需求"},{"start":13521.95,"end":13523.95,"text":"進來就可以了"},{"start":13523.95,"end":13525.95,"text":"我覺得就是一個比較符合我們科技產業的"},{"start":13525.95,"end":13527.95,"text":"這樣子的一個"},{"start":13527.95,"end":13529.95,"text":"發展的一個條理"},{"start":13531.18,"end":13533.18,"text":"現實的一個發展的方向"},{"start":13533.18,"end":13535.18,"text":"跟這個做法"},{"start":13535.18,"end":13537.18,"text":"謝一鳳委員"},{"start":13537.18,"end":13539.18,"text":"主席,不好意思,那個"},{"start":13539.18,"end":13541.18,"text":"我覺得那個如果周家斌委員有意見"},{"start":13541.18,"end":13543.18,"text":"那這應該是給行政院"},{"start":13543.18,"end":13545.18,"text":"就是經濟部還有"},{"start":13545.18,"end":13547.18,"text":"國防部來說明一下"},{"start":13547.18,"end":13549.18,"text":"就是那個看法"},{"start":13549.18,"end":13551.18,"text":"沒關係,我先表達我的看法完"},{"start":13551.18,"end":13553.18,"text":"我再請他們說明,謝謝"},{"start":13552.51,"end":13554.51,"text":"好啦,經濟部"},{"start":13560.89,"end":13562.89,"text":"跟各位委員報告"},{"start":13562.89,"end":13564.89,"text":"因為院板,其實我們的"},{"start":13564.89,"end":13566.89,"text":"條文是最主要是"},{"start":13566.89,"end":13568.89,"text":"這個國防自主"},{"start":13568.89,"end":13570.89,"text":"的這個需求,然後"},{"start":13570.89,"end":13572.89,"text":"來做這個無人機的"},{"start":13572.89,"end":13574.89,"text":"採購,建立國內的"},{"start":13574.89,"end":13576.89,"text":"這個"},{"start":13576.89,"end":13578.89,"text":"國防的一個軍事的"},{"start":13578.89,"end":13580.89,"text":"這個能量"},{"start":13580.89,"end":13582.89,"text":"那所以如果把經濟部"},{"start":13582.89,"end":13584.89,"text":"列為主管機關的話"},{"start":13584.89,"end":13586.89,"text":"事實上,在實務上我們"},{"start":13586.89,"end":13588.89,"text":"也沒辦法幫國安部來決定"},{"start":13589.19,"end":13591.19,"text":"要採購什麼樣的一些機型"},{"start":13591.19,"end":13593.19,"text":"所以這個部分也會牽涉到"},{"start":13593.19,"end":13595.19,"text":"就是說未來分工"},{"start":13595.19,"end":13597.19,"text":"分工的部分,所以我們還是建立"},{"start":13597.19,"end":13599.19,"text":"委員會這邊能夠"},{"start":13599.19,"end":13601.19,"text":"來支持行政院的"},{"start":13601.19,"end":13603.19,"text":"版本,以這個主管機關"},{"start":13603.19,"end":13605.19,"text":"為國安部,這樣的一個"},{"start":13605.19,"end":13607.19,"text":"主張,謝謝"},{"start":13609.31,"end":13611.31,"text":"好,所以這一條看起來大家都"},{"start":13614.91,"end":13616.91,"text":"國安部,國安部要說明了"},{"start":13617.42,"end":13619.42,"text":"沒有,因為他沒有舉手,要經濟部"},{"start":13624.83,"end":13626.83,"text":"要發言是要舉手"},{"start":13626.83,"end":13628.83,"text":"因為我們是,不是委員"},{"start":13628.83,"end":13630.83,"text":"沒有,因為經濟部有剛跟我講說"},{"start":13630.83,"end":13632.83,"text":"他想要發言"},{"start":13632.76,"end":13634.76,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":13634.01,"end":13636.01,"text":"那個我想"},{"start":13635.75,"end":13637.75,"text":"國安部為主管機關就行政院的版本來講"},{"start":13637.75,"end":13639.75,"text":"我想簡單明瞭"},{"start":13639.75,"end":13641.75,"text":"因為我們是提出我們的"},{"start":13641.75,"end":13643.75,"text":"採購,我們周帶需求的"},{"start":13643.75,"end":13645.75,"text":"採購,所以當然以國安部為主管機關"},{"start":13645.75,"end":13647.75,"text":"那至於其他的部分"},{"start":13647.75,"end":13649.75,"text":"有關產業發展的部分"},{"start":13649.75,"end":13651.75,"text":"為經濟部,國安部的立場就是"},{"start":13651.75,"end":13653.75,"text":"產業發展跟"},{"start":13653.75,"end":13655.75,"text":"我們現在要進行的國安採購,而且"},{"start":13655.75,"end":13657.75,"text":"以特別預算的方式來編列"},{"start":13657.75,"end":13659.75,"text":"兩個"},{"start":13658.9,"end":13660.9,"text":"國安部"},{"start":13660.12,"end":13662.12,"text":"沒有絕對的衝突,但不需要將他"},{"start":13662.12,"end":13664.12,"text":"放在我們的特別條例裡面"},{"start":13664.12,"end":13666.12,"text":"所以我們的特別條例"},{"start":13666.12,"end":13668.12,"text":"很明白的,就是"},{"start":13668.12,"end":13670.12,"text":"我們要採購特定的項目"},{"start":13670.12,"end":13672.12,"text":"而且這些特定的項目在特別條例通過之後"},{"start":13672.12,"end":13674.12,"text":"我們要提出這些"},{"start":13674.12,"end":13676.12,"text":"特別預算的項目"},{"start":13676.12,"end":13678.12,"text":"那至於剛剛有委員提到"},{"start":13678.12,"end":13680.12,"text":"那個賴斯堡委員的"},{"start":13680.12,"end":13682.12,"text":"提案,提到這些"},{"start":13682.12,"end":13684.12,"text":"有關技術移轉,工業合作"},{"start":13684.12,"end":13686.12,"text":"跟產業升級等等"},{"start":13686.12,"end":13688.12,"text":"那特別是就技術移轉跟工業合作"},{"start":13688.12,"end":13690.12,"text":"因為我們的部分是屬於"},{"start":13690.12,"end":13692.12,"text":"自主生產的部分"},{"start":13692.12,"end":13694.12,"text":"所以不會涉及到相關的"},{"start":13694.12,"end":13696.12,"text":"這些工業合作或技術移轉的部分"},{"start":13696.12,"end":13698.12,"text":"因為我們是百分之百"},{"start":13698.12,"end":13700.12,"text":"要在國內自治,至於廠商"},{"start":13700.12,"end":13702.12,"text":"會私下就這個"},{"start":13702.12,"end":13704.12,"text":"性能提升,不但"},{"start":13704.12,"end":13706.12,"text":"疊帶創新的部分,跟國外產生技術合作"},{"start":13706.12,"end":13708.12,"text":"這不在屬於我們這一次"},{"start":13708.12,"end":13710.12,"text":"應該要特別納列的"},{"start":13710.12,"end":13712.12,"text":"一個範圍之內,這個要跟"},{"start":13712.12,"end":13714.12,"text":"各位做一個說明"},{"start":13714.12,"end":13716.12,"text":"那麼,如果"},{"start":13716.12,"end":13718.12,"text":"當然進一步再往下看,我想"},{"start":13718.12,"end":13720.12,"text":"賴委員所提案的這些項目"},{"start":13720.12,"end":13722.12,"text":"事實上跟我們現在要採購的"},{"start":13722.12,"end":13724.12,"text":"這個項目並不是屬於"},{"start":13724.12,"end":13726.12,"text":"統一類型的這個項目裡面"},{"start":13726.12,"end":13728.12,"text":"這個是屬於我們另外會"},{"start":13728.12,"end":13730.12,"text":"編列在相關的"},{"start":13730.12,"end":13732.12,"text":"預算裡面"},{"start":13733.49,"end":13735.49,"text":"喂,喂"},{"start":13734.77,"end":13736.77,"text":"我想就先講到這個點"},{"start":13736.98,"end":13738.98,"text":"好,謝謝各位"},{"start":13739.14,"end":13741.14,"text":"送給你"},{"start":13741.22,"end":13743.22,"text":"謝謝國防部的說明"},{"start":13743.22,"end":13745.22,"text":"因為委員的版本大家各有堅持"},{"start":13745.22,"end":13747.22,"text":"我今天率先都肯定"},{"start":13747.22,"end":13749.22,"text":"其他委員的內容,雖然我已經做一些修正"},{"start":13749.22,"end":13751.22,"text":"但是我還是要做其他的"},{"start":13751.22,"end":13753.22,"text":"版本的一個比較"},{"start":13753.22,"end":13755.22,"text":"剛剛政委有提到"},{"start":13755.22,"end":13757.22,"text":"國防自主要放在經濟部"},{"start":13757.22,"end":13759.22,"text":"這樣的紅論"},{"start":13759.22,"end":13761.22,"text":"可能會涉及到205兵工廠"},{"start":13761.22,"end":13763.22,"text":"是不是要交給經濟部來主管"},{"start":13763.22,"end":13765.22,"text":"因為205兵工廠就是國防自主"},{"start":13765.22,"end":13767.22,"text":"三強槍炮彈藥"},{"start":13767.22,"end":13769.22,"text":"那這個如果是屬於國防自主的部分"},{"start":13769.22,"end":13771.22,"text":"那如果給經濟部的話"},{"start":13771.22,"end":13773.22,"text":"這就不太"},{"start":13772.56,"end":13774.56,"text":"不太看起來怪怪的啦"},{"start":13774.56,"end":13776.56,"text":"不過還好剛剛我們部長的說明"},{"start":13776.56,"end":13778.56,"text":"已經把這個疑惑解除了"},{"start":13778.56,"end":13780.56,"text":"也就是說在我們自主產制"},{"start":13780.56,"end":13782.56,"text":"百分之百自治的部分"},{"start":13782.56,"end":13784.56,"text":"當然還是由國防部來主管"},{"start":13784.56,"end":13786.56,"text":"那至於說未來目前行政院版本"},{"start":13786.56,"end":13788.56,"text":"要來採購的這個無人載具的類型"},{"start":13788.56,"end":13790.56,"text":"那麼是不是"},{"start":13790.56,"end":13792.56,"text":"有包含未來有可能全部在"},{"start":13792.56,"end":13794.56,"text":"國內自主"},{"start":13794.56,"end":13796.56,"text":"研發製造"},{"start":13796.56,"end":13798.56,"text":"這個我也是沒有把握"},{"start":13798.56,"end":13800.56,"text":"因為老實說,目前呢"},{"start":13800.56,"end":13802.56,"text":"我們採購無人機"},{"start":13802.56,"end":13804.56,"text":"整個系統生態系產業鏈"},{"start":13804.56,"end":13806.56,"text":"整機能夠全機整機"},{"start":13806.56,"end":13808.56,"text":"外銷的大概呢"},{"start":13808.56,"end":13810.56,"text":"要作為軍用的部分的比例"},{"start":13810.56,"end":13812.56,"text":"其實是有一些"},{"start":13812.56,"end":13814.56,"text":"但是呢如果以目前我們要建構"},{"start":13814.56,"end":13816.56,"text":"我們自己國防戰略的部分"},{"start":13816.56,"end":13818.56,"text":"很大的部分呢還是要借重"},{"start":13818.56,"end":13820.56,"text":"在美國的相關"},{"start":13820.56,"end":13822.56,"text":"新創研發公司還有在"},{"start":13822.56,"end":13824.56,"text":"烏克蘭戰場實證的那些機型"},{"start":13824.56,"end":13826.56,"text":"可能是我們迫切需要的"},{"start":13826.56,"end":13828.56,"text":"但是呢我這裡還是要提一下"},{"start":13828.56,"end":13830.56,"text":"在國民黨團"},{"start":13830.56,"end":13832.56,"text":"他的主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":13832.56,"end":13834.56,"text":"然後呢他的主辦機關"},{"start":13834.56,"end":13836.56,"text":"是經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":13836.56,"end":13838.56,"text":"然後呢市設的採購研發"},{"start":13838.56,"end":13840.56,"text":"還要由主管機關"},{"start":13842.05,"end":13844.05,"text":"會同國防部及有關主管機關共同辦理"},{"start":13844.05,"end":13846.05,"text":"因為剛好今天呢"},{"start":13846.05,"end":13848.05,"text":"因為這個立法體力啊"},{"start":13848.05,"end":13850.05,"text":"很罕見"},{"start":13850.05,"end":13852.05,"text":"剛好我們法務部法制師"},{"start":13852.05,"end":13854.05,"text":"有參事在場"},{"start":13854.05,"end":13856.05,"text":"那麼我想請教一下在中央法規標準法當中"},{"start":13856.05,"end":13858.05,"text":"這裡面所說的主管機關"},{"start":13858.05,"end":13860.05,"text":"主辦機關還有所謂的"},{"start":13860.05,"end":13862.05,"text":"這個會同"},{"start":13862.31,"end":13864.31,"text":"有關主管機關共同辦理"},{"start":13864.31,"end":13866.31,"text":"這些在條例上"},{"start":13866.31,"end":13868.31,"text":"是否有辦法執行"},{"start":13868.31,"end":13870.31,"text":"不然看得我很亂啊"},{"start":13870.31,"end":13872.31,"text":"到底主管機關這個主辦機關"},{"start":13872.31,"end":13874.31,"text":"還有有關主管機關"},{"start":13874.31,"end":13876.31,"text":"共同辦理"},{"start":13876.31,"end":13878.31,"text":"這些名詞在我們條例上"},{"start":13878.31,"end":13880.31,"text":"是不是應該要有一個更清楚"},{"start":13880.31,"end":13882.31,"text":"依照過去的寫法"},{"start":13882.31,"end":13884.31,"text":"而不是說自己創造發明"},{"start":13884.31,"end":13886.31,"text":"我們未來無法執行的內容"},{"start":13886.18,"end":13888.18,"text":"法務部"},{"start":13889.45,"end":13891.45,"text":"那關於這一條的這個"},{"start":13891.45,"end":13893.45,"text":"主管機關或主辦機關的規定"},{"start":13893.45,"end":13895.45,"text":"這個在中央法規標準法"},{"start":13895.45,"end":13897.45,"text":"並沒有針對"},{"start":13897.45,"end":13899.45,"text":"這個事項去做預定"},{"start":13899.45,"end":13901.45,"text":"那在"},{"start":13901.73,"end":13903.73,"text":"立法體力上"},{"start":13903.73,"end":13905.73,"text":"就是"},{"start":13904.89,"end":13906.89,"text":"我想因為這個條例"},{"start":13906.89,"end":13908.89,"text":"涉及的這個事項"},{"start":13908.89,"end":13910.89,"text":"分類類型很多"},{"start":13910.89,"end":13912.89,"text":"那現在定出一個"},{"start":13912.89,"end":13914.89,"text":"主管機關因為他呼應的是"},{"start":13914.89,"end":13916.89,"text":"後面後面有一些條文"},{"start":13916.89,"end":13918.89,"text":"他分別"},{"start":13918.89,"end":13920.89,"text":"會規範由主管機關"},{"start":13920.89,"end":13922.89,"text":"就是授權主管機關去做一些事情"},{"start":13922.89,"end":13924.89,"text":"那所以我想"},{"start":13924.89,"end":13926.89,"text":"這樣在這一條的"},{"start":13926.89,"end":13928.89,"text":"這個分類必須要搭配"},{"start":13928.89,"end":13930.89,"text":"後面幾個"},{"start":13930.89,"end":13932.89,"text":"就是相關的這些機關"},{"start":13933.91,"end":13935.91,"text":"當他們去在後面的對應"},{"start":13935.91,"end":13937.91,"text":"條文上去規範"},{"start":13937.91,"end":13939.91,"text":"這個事項各個機關是不是"},{"start":13939.91,"end":13941.91,"text":"認為妥適"},{"start":13941.91,"end":13943.91,"text":"所以這個部分我是建議"},{"start":13943.91,"end":13945.91,"text":"由涉及到的這幾個"},{"start":13945.91,"end":13947.91,"text":"主管機關去盤點一下"},{"start":13947.91,"end":13949.91,"text":"後面這些條文"},{"start":13950.03,"end":13952.03,"text":"去規範到他們職權的事項是不是妥適"},{"start":13952.03,"end":13954.03,"text":"這個部分我必須要尊重其他的主管機關的意見"},{"start":13961.69,"end":13963.69,"text":"要一個一個問嗎"},{"start":13964.73,"end":13966.73,"text":"你發言"},{"start":13966.73,"end":13968.73,"text":"我因為我一向都是表達說"},{"start":13968.73,"end":13970.73,"text":"要先尊重其他的版本"},{"start":13970.73,"end":13972.73,"text":"盡量的退讓"},{"start":13972.73,"end":13974.73,"text":"但是我還是不得不對於民眾黨"},{"start":13974.73,"end":13976.73,"text":"的版本表示一些"},{"start":13976.73,"end":13978.73,"text":"實務上到底要怎麼去認定的問題"},{"start":13979.71,"end":13981.71,"text":"首先他在這裡"},{"start":13981.71,"end":13983.71,"text":"第三條他說本條例"},{"start":13983.71,"end":13985.71,"text":"是中央主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":13985.71,"end":13987.71,"text":"中央"},{"start":13987.36,"end":13989.36,"text":"然後涉及國防運用事項"},{"start":13989.36,"end":13991.36,"text":"為國防部"},{"start":13991.36,"end":13993.36,"text":"還有地方主管機關"},{"start":13993.36,"end":13995.36,"text":"為直轄市縣市政府"},{"start":13995.53,"end":13997.53,"text":"這個大概也是很罕見的立法例"},{"start":13997.53,"end":13999.53,"text":"那後面第二項的部分"},{"start":13999.53,"end":14001.53,"text":"那個就更特別了"},{"start":14001.53,"end":14003.53,"text":"本條例涉及飛航安全"},{"start":14003.53,"end":14005.53,"text":"空域管理"},{"start":14005.53,"end":14007.53,"text":"資通安全頻率使用"},{"start":14007.53,"end":14009.53,"text":"政府採購警政消防"},{"start":14009.53,"end":14011.53,"text":"災防農業海巡"},{"start":14011.53,"end":14013.53,"text":"環境關鍵基礎設施"},{"start":14013.53,"end":14015.53,"text":"地方場域及其他"},{"start":14015.53,"end":14017.53,"text":"目的事業"},{"start":14017.53,"end":14019.53,"text":"事項者由中央各"},{"start":14019.53,"end":14021.53,"text":"目的事業主管機關"},{"start":14021.53,"end":14023.53,"text":"依權則辦理"},{"start":14023.44,"end":14025.44,"text":"關鍵就是依權則辦理"},{"start":14025.98,"end":14027.98,"text":"如果是各相關的目的事業主管機關"},{"start":14027.98,"end":14029.98,"text":"依權則辦理根本不用寫"},{"start":14029.98,"end":14031.98,"text":"因為本來我們所有的"},{"start":14031.98,"end":14033.98,"text":"主管機關他所處理的事項"},{"start":14033.98,"end":14035.98,"text":"他不可能全部都在該"},{"start":14035.98,"end":14037.98,"text":"部會的含色範圍"},{"start":14037.98,"end":14039.98,"text":"難免有一些跑到內政部啦"},{"start":14039.98,"end":14041.98,"text":"跑到NCC啦"},{"start":14041.98,"end":14043.98,"text":"跑到速發部啦"},{"start":14043.98,"end":14045.98,"text":"跑到公共工程委員會啊"},{"start":14045.98,"end":14047.98,"text":"公平委也會有啊"},{"start":14047.98,"end":14049.98,"text":"農業部也會有啊海委會也會有啊"},{"start":14049.98,"end":14051.98,"text":"那如果照這樣的體力條件"},{"start":14051.98,"end":14053.98,"text":"我們每條的一個主管機關"},{"start":14053.98,"end":14055.98,"text":"後面都要把這些行不當當"},{"start":14055.98,"end":14057.98,"text":"行政院的一級機關"},{"start":14057.98,"end":14059.98,"text":"二級機關通通寫上去"},{"start":14061.57,"end":14063.57,"text":"難道是這樣子寫法嗎"},{"start":14063.57,"end":14065.57,"text":"所以我是想今天列席的部會很多"},{"start":14065.57,"end":14067.57,"text":"可能這些機關都還沒列席咧"},{"start":14067.57,"end":14069.57,"text":"我們來看一下這裡面今天"},{"start":14069.57,"end":14071.57,"text":"有NCC來嗎"},{"start":14071.57,"end":14073.57,"text":"這裡面講到說頻率的使用"},{"start":14073.57,"end":14075.57,"text":"有NCC嗎"},{"start":14074.79,"end":14076.79,"text":"這裡面呢關於採購的部分"},{"start":14076.79,"end":14078.79,"text":"我有看到工程會"},{"start":14078.79,"end":14080.79,"text":"那工程會要說明一下嗎"},{"start":14080.79,"end":14082.79,"text":"載訪的部分今天內政部"},{"start":14082.79,"end":14084.79,"text":"消防署有來嗎"},{"start":14085.13,"end":14087.13,"text":"那我們警政的部分警政署有來嗎"},{"start":14087.13,"end":14089.13,"text":"那農業部沒有看到啊"},{"start":14089.13,"end":14091.13,"text":"海委會沒看到啊環境部沒看到啊"},{"start":14091.13,"end":14093.13,"text":"所以說這個條文"},{"start":14093.13,"end":14095.13,"text":"如果今天要審"},{"start":14095.75,"end":14097.75,"text":"真的要按照我們院會的交辦來審"},{"start":14097.75,"end":14099.75,"text":"那各版本"},{"start":14099.75,"end":14101.75,"text":"他所涉及到處到的內容"},{"start":14101.75,"end":14103.75,"text":"的業務機關都要來"},{"start":14103.75,"end":14105.75,"text":"讓我們了解一下未來能不能"},{"start":14105.75,"end":14107.75,"text":"執行啊所以我常常"},{"start":14107.75,"end":14109.75,"text":"剛剛一直聽到說很多委員說這個很重要"},{"start":14109.75,"end":14111.75,"text":"這個很重要要趕快趕快不能耽誤"},{"start":14113.08,"end":14115.08,"text":"這跟我們認真的把法律"},{"start":14116.3,"end":14118.3,"text":"定好是有密切的關係的"},{"start":14118.3,"end":14120.3,"text":"你不會說你急著要品質都不顧吧"},{"start":14120.3,"end":14122.3,"text":"未來會不會自在難言都不顧吧"},{"start":14122.3,"end":14124.3,"text":"我們是立法院"},{"start":14124.3,"end":14126.3,"text":"我們是立法委員我們在審"},{"start":14126.3,"end":14128.3,"text":"這些相關的法律案的時候"},{"start":14128.3,"end":14130.3,"text":"我們有既往的成立可以參考"},{"start":14130.86,"end":14132.86,"text":"這樣的寫法是否妥適"},{"start":14132.86,"end":14134.86,"text":"我不能說不妥適只是我覺得怪怪的"},{"start":14134.86,"end":14136.86,"text":"那是不是相關的機關都"},{"start":14136.86,"end":14138.86,"text":"應該在這裡說明一下未來"},{"start":14138.86,"end":14140.86,"text":"如果按照民主黨團的第三條通過之後"},{"start":14140.86,"end":14142.86,"text":"地方機關怎麼主管"},{"start":14142.86,"end":14144.86,"text":"那市設的那些非常安全"},{"start":14144.86,"end":14146.86,"text":"等等項目交通部民航局"},{"start":14146.86,"end":14148.86,"text":"要不要來講"},{"start":14148.67,"end":14150.67,"text":"所以"},{"start":14149.64,"end":14151.64,"text":"主席要建議主席"},{"start":14151.64,"end":14153.64,"text":"今天不是說只要有意見"},{"start":14153.64,"end":14155.64,"text":"我們就保留"},{"start":14155.47,"end":14157.47,"text":"應該要問清楚你們當時設計這個條款"},{"start":14157.47,"end":14159.47,"text":"你們的思考"},{"start":14159.47,"end":14161.47,"text":"未來在運作上"},{"start":14161.47,"end":14163.47,"text":"是否能夠有效運作"},{"start":14163.47,"end":14165.47,"text":"那如果不寫也可以"},{"start":14165.47,"end":14167.47,"text":"那就不要寫嘛因為所有的"},{"start":14167.47,"end":14169.47,"text":"作用法他都會"},{"start":14169.47,"end":14171.47,"text":"除了主管機關以外"},{"start":14171.47,"end":14173.47,"text":"可能跟其他法律有進合的"},{"start":14173.47,"end":14175.47,"text":"或者業務內容有相關相涉的"},{"start":14175.47,"end":14177.47,"text":"那這些而且最好玩的是什麼"},{"start":14177.47,"end":14179.47,"text":"你有沒有寫依權責處理"},{"start":14179.47,"end":14181.47,"text":"這五個字在行政機關"},{"start":14181.47,"end":14183.47,"text":"叫做最好用請本於權責"},{"start":14183.47,"end":14185.47,"text":"我們只要在地方政府"},{"start":14185.47,"end":14187.47,"text":"看到說"},{"start":14186.99,"end":14188.99,"text":"問了半天最後一句話請本於權責辦理"},{"start":14188.99,"end":14190.99,"text":"那我就白問了嘛你叫我本於權責"},{"start":14190.99,"end":14192.99,"text":"我就自己辦理嘛哪需要"},{"start":14192.99,"end":14194.99,"text":"再回到條文裡面去跟你會同共同"},{"start":14195.24,"end":14197.24,"text":"是不是請主席"},{"start":14197.24,"end":14199.24,"text":"問一下是不是這些機關呢"},{"start":14199.22,"end":14201.22,"text":"民眾黨黨團的這些內容要相關機關回應一下"},{"start":14205.62,"end":14207.62,"text":"不能寫這麼多"},{"start":14207.05,"end":14209.05,"text":"不能拿掉"},{"start":14209.05,"end":14211.05,"text":"趙偉很能問喔"},{"start":14212.47,"end":14214.47,"text":"趙偉很能問喔"},{"start":14214.47,"end":14216.47,"text":"我們不是立法局啦我們是立法院啦"},{"start":14216.92,"end":14218.92,"text":"我們不是立法局啦"},{"start":14218.92,"end":14220.92,"text":"我們是一次就做主我們"},{"start":14221.72,"end":14223.72,"text":"怎麼會請他們來"},{"start":14226,"end":14232,"text":"我想說叫主席去問各機關我覺得我們今天在審查法案"},{"start":14232,"end":14234,"text":"尊重每一位委員"},{"start":14234,"end":14238,"text":"所提出的意見以及行政部門"},{"start":14238,"end":14240,"text":"不行我們還是要做協商"},{"start":14240,"end":14242,"text":"這是我們在立法的過程當中"},{"start":14242,"end":14246,"text":"的一個非常必要的程序"},{"start":14246,"end":14250,"text":"我剛才說了我們大家都認為無人機非常的重要"},{"start":14250,"end":14252,"text":"所以我們就"},{"start":14252,"end":14254,"text":"今天現在是"},{"start":14254,"end":14256,"text":"討論到第二條"},{"start":14256,"end":14262,"text":"那主管機關單位行政部門以及各政黨的委員"},{"start":14262,"end":14266,"text":"都有提出了說明了各自的意見是怎麼樣"},{"start":14266,"end":14270,"text":"那要請主席來做裁示"},{"start":14270,"end":14272,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":14271.58,"end":14273.58,"text":"所以我剛就說行政院就是國防部嘛"},{"start":14273.58,"end":14279.58,"text":"國民黨團就是經濟部主管機關主辦當然是主經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":14279.58,"end":14285.58,"text":"那我們民進黨黨團就是參考這個文化資產的保存法的第四條"},{"start":14285.58,"end":14287.58,"text":"他訂了兩個主管機關嘛"},{"start":14288.71,"end":14290.71,"text":"後面的話你如果說我們這個東西的話"},{"start":14290.71,"end":14294.71,"text":"都是有問過因為在後面的話你有交通局民航法規那些嘛"},{"start":14294.71,"end":14296.71,"text":"因為是考慮到你的是非的場域等等"},{"start":14296.71,"end":14298.71,"text":"所以在後面會有訂"},{"start":14299.96,"end":14301.96,"text":"那如果像王定宇委員的話也是一樣啊"},{"start":14301.96,"end":14303.96,"text":"就是中央主管機關是經濟部嘛"},{"start":14303.96,"end":14305.96,"text":"國防軍是國防部嘛"},{"start":14305.96,"end":14307.96,"text":"所以這也是兩個主管機關嘛"},{"start":14307.96,"end":14309.96,"text":"就只有行政院是國防部而已就這樣子啦"},{"start":14312.72,"end":14314.72,"text":"來"},{"start":14314.72,"end":14316.72,"text":"今天因為我看到飛航安全空運管理"},{"start":14316.72,"end":14318.72,"text":"有找交通部有找民航局"},{"start":14318.72,"end":14320.72,"text":"我看到了頻率使用"},{"start":14320.72,"end":14322.72,"text":"跟資通安全"},{"start":14322.72,"end":14324.72,"text":"看起來是一個觸發"},{"start":14324.72,"end":14326.72,"text":"這個就請NCC交通部民航局訂"},{"start":14326.72,"end":14328.72,"text":"訂資就可以了"},{"start":14328.72,"end":14330.72,"text":"NCC在哪裡"},{"start":14330.72,"end":14332.72,"text":"要不要聽一聽看這個部分怎麼處理"},{"start":14332.72,"end":14334.72,"text":"NCC有沒有必要列進來管頻率使用"},{"start":14334.72,"end":14336.72,"text":"你說到政府採購今天有工程會"},{"start":14336.72,"end":14338.72,"text":"我們的警政消防"},{"start":14338.72,"end":14340.72,"text":"內政部有沒有人在場"},{"start":14340.72,"end":14342.72,"text":"農業"},{"start":14342.72,"end":14344.72,"text":"我們在立法涉及到其他的"},{"start":14344.72,"end":14346.72,"text":"部會的時候"},{"start":14346.72,"end":14348.72,"text":"你難道不請部會來保釋意見嗎"},{"start":14348.72,"end":14350.72,"text":"我們就事先徵詢"},{"start":14350.72,"end":14352.72,"text":"這邊才有議員"},{"start":14352.72,"end":14354.72,"text":"你並沒有支持民眾黨團的條文"},{"start":14354.72,"end":14356.72,"text":"如果你是支持的話"},{"start":14356.72,"end":14358.72,"text":"你就可以問他們"},{"start":14358.72,"end":14360.72,"text":"你又不支持"},{"start":14360.72,"end":14362.72,"text":"你又不支持"},{"start":14362.72,"end":14364.72,"text":"你不支持我的"},{"start":14364.72,"end":14366.72,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":14366.91,"end":14368.91,"text":"賴事保委員的提案"},{"start":14370.16,"end":14372.16,"text":"賴事保委員的提案"},{"start":14372.16,"end":14374.16,"text":"他有兩個提案"},{"start":14374.16,"end":14376.16,"text":"半照優先"},{"start":14376.16,"end":14378.16,"text":"後面等於是在修正前面的"},{"start":14378.16,"end":14380.16,"text":"基本上就是這樣"},{"start":14380.9,"end":14382.9,"text":"對不對"},{"start":14382.9,"end":14384.9,"text":"我提了一個 我再提第二個"},{"start":14384.9,"end":14386.9,"text":"解釋上就是我在修正前面"},{"start":14386.9,"end":14388.9,"text":"中委員有意見的部分"},{"start":14388.9,"end":14390.9,"text":"以及他提到的相關疑問的部分"},{"start":14390.9,"end":14392.9,"text":"是不是請相關"},{"start":14392.9,"end":14394.9,"text":"部會在協商前"},{"start":14394.9,"end":14396.9,"text":"就是在黨團協商前"},{"start":14396.9,"end":14398.9,"text":"那就是說"},{"start":14398.9,"end":14400.9,"text":"把相關的報告或者是相關"},{"start":14400.9,"end":14402.9,"text":"疑慮的部分能夠"},{"start":14402.9,"end":14404.9,"text":"交給委員會每個委員"},{"start":14404.9,"end":14406.9,"text":"好不好"},{"start":14406.9,"end":14408.9,"text":"聯席委員會的每個委員"},{"start":14408.9,"end":14410.9,"text":"交到那個就是委員會"},{"start":14410.9,"end":14412.9,"text":"他自己提了都不支持"},{"start":14412.9,"end":14414.9,"text":"所以要支持賴事保"},{"start":14414.9,"end":14416.9,"text":"好來 算我們第二條"},{"start":14416.9,"end":14418.9,"text":"按照全漢都保留"},{"start":14424.89,"end":14426.89,"text":"好我們進到第三條"},{"start":14426.89,"end":14428.89,"text":"根據原版這邊"},{"start":14428.89,"end":14430.89,"text":"下一頁就是"},{"start":14434.34,"end":14436.34,"text":"我們到了名詞定義這邊了"},{"start":14436.34,"end":14438.34,"text":"好"},{"start":14439.67,"end":14441.67,"text":"請進一步"},{"start":14453.48,"end":14455.48,"text":"跟委員會報告"},{"start":14455.48,"end":14457.48,"text":"我想行政院版本的第三條"},{"start":14457.48,"end":14459.48,"text":"就是針對這個"},{"start":14459.48,"end":14461.48,"text":"國安部的這個需求"},{"start":14461.48,"end":14463.48,"text":"他們要針對這個"},{"start":14463.48,"end":14465.48,"text":"第四條所提的"},{"start":14466.61,"end":14468.61,"text":"這個"},{"start":14468.61,"end":14470.61,"text":"採購的這些項目"},{"start":14470.61,"end":14472.61,"text":"做一些"},{"start":14472.61,"end":14474.61,"text":"做一些這個"},{"start":14474.61,"end":14476.61,"text":"律定"},{"start":14476.61,"end":14478.61,"text":"其他委員的版本的部分"},{"start":14478.61,"end":14480.61,"text":"我們是 我們的看法是說"},{"start":14480.61,"end":14482.61,"text":"因為"},{"start":14481.86,"end":14483.86,"text":"這個烏雲載具"},{"start":14483.55,"end":14485.55,"text":"這個類型非常多"},{"start":14485.55,"end":14487.55,"text":"包括地面"},{"start":14487.48,"end":14489.48,"text":"這個空中的還有"},{"start":14489.48,"end":14491.48,"text":"這個水下水面的"},{"start":14491.48,"end":14493.48,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":14493.48,"end":14495.48,"text":"有很多的這些烏雲載具的用途"},{"start":14495.48,"end":14497.48,"text":"那其實這裡面"},{"start":14497.48,"end":14499.48,"text":"涉及到相關的"},{"start":14499.48,"end":14501.48,"text":"這些法規包括民用航空法"},{"start":14501.48,"end":14503.48,"text":"傳播法以及其他目的事業"},{"start":14503.48,"end":14505.48,"text":"主管機關的這個法規"},{"start":14505.48,"end":14507.48,"text":"所以它相關的這些零組件"},{"start":14507.48,"end":14509.48,"text":"控制軟體等等"},{"start":14509.48,"end":14511.48,"text":"這些推動事項"},{"start":14511.48,"end":14513.48,"text":"其實我們在統籌型計畫裡面"},{"start":14513.48,"end":14515.48,"text":"也都已經有納進來的"},{"start":14515.48,"end":14517.48,"text":"那相關的這些資安檢測或認證"},{"start":14517.48,"end":14519.48,"text":"還有"},{"start":14519.48,"end":14521.48,"text":"這個無人機的"},{"start":14521.48,"end":14523.48,"text":"遙控無人機的這個採購"},{"start":14523.48,"end":14525.48,"text":"這個費用的這個"},{"start":14525.48,"end":14527.48,"text":"認定的部分"},{"start":14527.48,"end":14529.48,"text":"目前包括數位部啦"},{"start":14529.48,"end":14531.48,"text":"這個工程會也都有相關的"},{"start":14531.48,"end":14533.48,"text":"一些規定"},{"start":14533.48,"end":14535.48,"text":"另外就是說這個"},{"start":14535.48,"end":14537.48,"text":"計轉跟工業合作的部分"},{"start":14537.48,"end":14539.48,"text":"在國防法也有相關的"},{"start":14539.48,"end":14541.48,"text":"一個規範"},{"start":14541.48,"end":14543.48,"text":"所以我們是建立是不是還是"},{"start":14543.48,"end":14545.48,"text":"採行這個行政委的這個版本"},{"start":14545.48,"end":14547.48,"text":"然後聚焦在"},{"start":14547.48,"end":14549.48,"text":"這個機關的一個"},{"start":14549.48,"end":14551.48,"text":"還有那個國防部的這個"},{"start":14551.48,"end":14553.48,"text":"裝備跟資源系統的這個採購"},{"start":14553.48,"end":14555.48,"text":"以上"},{"start":14555.79,"end":14557.79,"text":"好 邱毅委員"},{"start":14557.79,"end":14559.79,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":14559.79,"end":14561.79,"text":"國防部等一下"},{"start":14564.02,"end":14566.02,"text":"是 主席 各位"},{"start":14566.02,"end":14568.02,"text":"我想國防的採購一定要由國防部"},{"start":14568.02,"end":14570.02,"text":"來主管機關"},{"start":14570.02,"end":14572.02,"text":"那麼然後接下來"},{"start":14572.02,"end":14574.02,"text":"就是我們這一條例所講的"},{"start":14574.02,"end":14576.02,"text":"這個國防自主無人採訣的採購"},{"start":14576.78,"end":14578.78,"text":"的我們限定的範圍"},{"start":14578.78,"end":14580.78,"text":"就是主管機關跟所屬機關"},{"start":14580.78,"end":14582.78,"text":"構的部隊辦理"},{"start":14582.78,"end":14584.78,"text":"來辦理這個行政合定"},{"start":14584.78,"end":14586.78,"text":"採購我們第四條所訂"},{"start":14586.78,"end":14588.78,"text":"項目的相關的主要裝備系統"},{"start":14588.78,"end":14590.78,"text":"跟他的資源系統的獲得產自"},{"start":14590.78,"end":14592.78,"text":"維修工程及訓練"},{"start":14592.78,"end":14594.78,"text":"所以我想無論如果不以由"},{"start":14594.78,"end":14596.78,"text":"經濟部來主辦或者是"},{"start":14596.78,"end":14598.78,"text":"不管是經濟部"},{"start":14598.78,"end":14600.78,"text":"主管或經濟部來會同"},{"start":14600.78,"end":14602.78,"text":"這個國防部來辦理"},{"start":14602.78,"end":14604.78,"text":"所以我想這個都不適宜"},{"start":14604.78,"end":14606.78,"text":"那我們的國防自主的"},{"start":14606.78,"end":14608.78,"text":"無人採訣的採購"},{"start":14608.78,"end":14610.78,"text":"因為既然是特別條例所以採購的標的"},{"start":14610.78,"end":14612.78,"text":"要明確所以會在第四條"},{"start":14612.78,"end":14614.78,"text":"裡面明定採購的"},{"start":14614.78,"end":14616.78,"text":"項目那至於國民黨黨團的這個"},{"start":14616.78,"end":14618.78,"text":"相關的定義特別是"},{"start":14618.78,"end":14620.78,"text":"就無人採訣的部分他範圍"},{"start":14620.78,"end":14622.78,"text":"拉了非常的廣幾乎"},{"start":14622.78,"end":14624.78,"text":"將所有不管是無人機"},{"start":14624.78,"end":14626.78,"text":"無人艇"},{"start":14626.78,"end":14628.78,"text":"還有地面的無人採訣"},{"start":14628.78,"end":14630.78,"text":"等等所有都包含在這裡面"},{"start":14630.78,"end":14632.78,"text":"那這些包含這裡面都"},{"start":14632.78,"end":14634.78,"text":"會每一個具體的採購項目"},{"start":14634.78,"end":14636.78,"text":"事實上都要提出具體的"},{"start":14636.78,"end":14638.78,"text":"預算案不管是特別預算案"},{"start":14638.78,"end":14640.78,"text":"或年度預算案這個都是要"},{"start":14640.78,"end":14642.78,"text":"基於我們國防部本身的"},{"start":14642.78,"end":14644.78,"text":"作戰需求我們的專業"},{"start":14644.78,"end":14646.78,"text":"然後來提出相關的這個具體"},{"start":14646.78,"end":14648.78,"text":"這個"},{"start":14648.78,"end":14650.78,"text":"這個採購的"},{"start":14650.78,"end":14652.78,"text":"這個我們建案然後再提出我們的"},{"start":14652.78,"end":14654.78,"text":"採購計畫那麼"},{"start":14654.78,"end":14656.78,"text":"國民黨黨團他將所有的無人"},{"start":14656.78,"end":14658.78,"text":"這個採訣都放進來"},{"start":14658.78,"end":14660.78,"text":"但事實上後面他並沒有"},{"start":14660.78,"end":14662.78,"text":"明確的說明是哪些的"},{"start":14662.78,"end":14664.78,"text":"這個"},{"start":14664.78,"end":14666.78,"text":"呃"},{"start":14666.07,"end":14668.07,"text":"具體的這個採購的這個項目"},{"start":14668.07,"end":14670.07,"text":"所以我想這樣子的一個立法的"},{"start":14670.07,"end":14672.07,"text":"形式"},{"start":14672.07,"end":14674.07,"text":"會侵犯到我們"},{"start":14674.07,"end":14676.07,"text":"就基於我們國防"},{"start":14678.05,"end":14680.05,"text":"所了解的國防需求跟我們"},{"start":14680.05,"end":14682.05,"text":"國防部本身的"},{"start":14682.05,"end":14684.05,"text":"專業所要訂出來的採購的"},{"start":14684.05,"end":14686.05,"text":"具體的項目"},{"start":14686.05,"end":14688.05,"text":"所以我還是懇請"},{"start":14687.92,"end":14689.92,"text":"大員能夠支持"},{"start":14689.92,"end":14691.92,"text":"就是我們"},{"start":14691.73,"end":14693.73,"text":"非常容易讓明瞭的這個"},{"start":14693.73,"end":14695.73,"text":"這個版本"},{"start":14697.54,"end":14699.54,"text":"特別是有關第二條跟第三條"},{"start":14701.94,"end":14703.94,"text":"好謝謝國防部在秋運委員"},{"start":14705.98,"end":14707.98,"text":"謝謝主席我剛其實要表達的就是"},{"start":14707.98,"end":14709.98,"text":"這個第三條"},{"start":14709.98,"end":14711.98,"text":"談到國防採購的部分"},{"start":14711.98,"end":14713.98,"text":"主席剛剛應該就是要請國防部長"},{"start":14713.98,"end":14715.98,"text":"出來"},{"start":14715.83,"end":14717.83,"text":"發言才對阿"},{"start":14717.83,"end":14719.83,"text":"怎麼會直接就請經濟部勒"},{"start":14719.83,"end":14721.83,"text":"就是我們一直在談這個邏輯錯亂"},{"start":14721.83,"end":14723.83,"text":"國防的採購"},{"start":14723.83,"end":14725.83,"text":"國防的需求當然一定是國防部"},{"start":14725.83,"end":14727.83,"text":"最清楚最了解"},{"start":14727.83,"end":14729.83,"text":"阿怎麼會是經濟部出來說明"},{"start":14731.34,"end":14733.34,"text":"那經濟部根本不知道你到底要採購什麼東西"},{"start":14733.34,"end":14735.34,"text":"到底哪些是國防真正有需要的阿"},{"start":14735.34,"end":14737.34,"text":"好"},{"start":14737.34,"end":14739.34,"text":"那接下來談到第三條"},{"start":14739.34,"end":14741.34,"text":"國防部謝謝部長剛剛的"},{"start":14741.34,"end":14743.34,"text":"國防部部長的說明喔"},{"start":14743.34,"end":14745.34,"text":"但是其實各個版本"},{"start":14745.34,"end":14747.34,"text":"談到的很多是商規"},{"start":14747.34,"end":14749.34,"text":"很多各個各種"},{"start":14749.34,"end":14751.34,"text":"不同的無人載具"},{"start":14751.83,"end":14753.83,"text":"這個在產業發展條例裡頭"},{"start":14753.83,"end":14755.83,"text":"我們可以把它明定的非常清楚"},{"start":14755.83,"end":14757.83,"text":"這個我也同意"},{"start":14757.83,"end":14759.83,"text":"但是在採購的部分上面"},{"start":14759.83,"end":14761.83,"text":"你把商規的部分"},{"start":14761.83,"end":14763.83,"text":"通通都把它放進去"},{"start":14763.83,"end":14765.83,"text":"那甚至民眾黨黨團的提案"},{"start":14765.83,"end":14767.83,"text":"他只有談到無人機"},{"start":14768.47,"end":14770.47,"text":"他只有天上飛的才有"},{"start":14770.47,"end":14772.47,"text":"那水面"},{"start":14772.47,"end":14774.47,"text":"水面的水面底下的"},{"start":14774.47,"end":14776.47,"text":"其他的自殺小艇等等"},{"start":14777.78,"end":14781.78,"text":"沒有在這個大的無人載具的範圍裡面喔"},{"start":14781.78,"end":14783.78,"text":"所以"},{"start":14784.07,"end":14786.07,"text":"我還是不知道到底要怎麼樣去審這個"},{"start":14786.07,"end":14788.07,"text":"這個條例啦"},{"start":14788.07,"end":14790.07,"text":"好那我支持"},{"start":14790.07,"end":14792.07,"text":"第三條我是支持行政院的"},{"start":14792.07,"end":14794.07,"text":"版本喔這個還是要回到"},{"start":14794.07,"end":14796.07,"text":"國防部對於我們的"},{"start":14796.07,"end":14798.07,"text":"國防需求戰略考量"},{"start":14798.07,"end":14800.07,"text":"的所有的採購案還是"},{"start":14800.07,"end":14802.07,"text":"應該回到國防部主管謝謝"},{"start":14804.11,"end":14806.11,"text":"來 開始吧 委員"},{"start":14807.05,"end":14811.05,"text":"這個我要對國民黨團跟民眾黨團講個話啦"},{"start":14811.05,"end":14813.05,"text":"他是先定義啦"},{"start":14813.27,"end":14815.27,"text":"先定義到底是什麼"},{"start":14815.27,"end":14817.27,"text":"你們到底有包括哪些東西"},{"start":14817.7,"end":14821.7,"text":"所以國民黨團講的是無人載具軍用商規軍民共用"},{"start":14823.15,"end":14825.15,"text":"國產化的比例等等的喔"},{"start":14825.15,"end":14827.15,"text":"民眾黨基本上來講"},{"start":14827.15,"end":14829.15,"text":"也是把它定義"},{"start":14829.15,"end":14831.15,"text":"這個時候我怎麼沒有聽到說"},{"start":14831.15,"end":14833.15,"text":"民進黨委員要支持我的"},{"start":14833.15,"end":14835.15,"text":"版本我的版本很好啊"},{"start":14835.15,"end":14837.15,"text":"前面前面有那個"},{"start":14837.15,"end":14839.15,"text":"第四條的"},{"start":14839.15,"end":14841.15,"text":"產業發展條例"},{"start":14841.15,"end":14843.15,"text":"我定義很清楚全部包括進來"},{"start":14843.15,"end":14845.15,"text":"你挑的"},{"start":14845.15,"end":14847.15,"text":"然後這個"},{"start":14847.15,"end":14849.15,"text":"這個特別條例裡面呢"},{"start":14849.13,"end":14851.13,"text":"我裡面特別提的是"},{"start":14851.43,"end":14853.43,"text":"前向最後"},{"start":14853.43,"end":14855.43,"text":"前向採購與美國或"},{"start":14855.43,"end":14857.43,"text":"與其他國家"},{"start":14857.43,"end":14859.43,"text":"所產製或授權的裝備為止"},{"start":14860.68,"end":14862.68,"text":"而且每一個採購案"},{"start":14862.68,"end":14864.68,"text":"要附加技術輸出及"},{"start":14864.68,"end":14866.68,"text":"工業合作條件"},{"start":14867.36,"end":14869.36,"text":"工業合作就是offset"},{"start":14869.35,"end":14871.35,"text":"所以"},{"start":14871.35,"end":14873.35,"text":"我是認為我的完整"},{"start":14873.35,"end":14875.35,"text":"有名詞定義的基本上"},{"start":14875.35,"end":14877.35,"text":"就跟國民黨團"},{"start":14877.35,"end":14879.35,"text":"民進黨團的基本上是接近的"},{"start":14879.35,"end":14881.35,"text":"然後呢這裡面來講"},{"start":14881.35,"end":14883.35,"text":"要採購但是呢注意看喔"},{"start":14883.35,"end":14885.35,"text":"行政院版本跟我的版本"},{"start":14885.35,"end":14887.35,"text":"最大不一樣的是什麼"},{"start":14887.35,"end":14889.35,"text":"行政院版本就是國內採購"},{"start":14890.53,"end":14892.53,"text":"國內採購"},{"start":14892.7,"end":14894.7,"text":"我的版本是什麼是upgrade"},{"start":14894.7,"end":14896.7,"text":"是高階的"},{"start":14896.7,"end":14898.7,"text":"我高階才要跟國外採購"},{"start":14898.7,"end":14900.7,"text":"但是行政版本不是啦"},{"start":14900.7,"end":14902.7,"text":"他是低階的啦"},{"start":14902.26,"end":14904.26,"text":"現在有喔你注意看"},{"start":14904.26,"end":14906.26,"text":"他就是這樣子"},{"start":14905.7,"end":14907.7,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":14907.7,"end":14909.7,"text":"我要跟美國買的就是高階嘛"},{"start":14909.7,"end":14911.7,"text":"這裡面就是DCS了"},{"start":14911.7,"end":14913.7,"text":"這裡面是商購"},{"start":14913.7,"end":14915.7,"text":"或者軍購啦"},{"start":14915.7,"end":14917.7,"text":"我裡面採購他是軍購或是商購的"},{"start":14917.7,"end":14919.7,"text":"你直接把國內的廠商列為低階"},{"start":14919.7,"end":14921.7,"text":"我看國內的廠商會起來跟你抗議喔"},{"start":14921.7,"end":14923.7,"text":"沒關係啦這個東西相對美國"},{"start":14923.7,"end":14925.7,"text":"當然我們低階嘛"},{"start":14925.7,"end":14927.7,"text":"當然是啊怎麼不是"},{"start":14927.7,"end":14929.7,"text":"這個我已經講了"},{"start":14929.7,"end":14931.7,"text":"我剛才提案說明已經講了"},{"start":14931.7,"end":14933.7,"text":"最早說明已經講了"},{"start":14933.7,"end":14935.7,"text":"國內的顧富廠買21萬架"},{"start":14935.7,"end":14937.7,"text":"裡面只有2000架"},{"start":14937.7,"end":14939.7,"text":"是高階其他都是低階啊"},{"start":14939.7,"end":14941.7,"text":"那所謂低階高階是什麼定義"},{"start":14941.7,"end":14943.7,"text":"當然有不同的"},{"start":14943.7,"end":14945.7,"text":"不同的定義"},{"start":14944.76,"end":14946.76,"text":"我Google"},{"start":14946.76,"end":14948.76,"text":"我再去找全世界"},{"start":14948.76,"end":14950.76,"text":"現在第一名第二名第三名的"},{"start":14950.76,"end":14952.76,"text":"無人機的要講他"},{"start":14952.76,"end":14954.76,"text":"一個一個檔次的話"},{"start":14954.76,"end":14956.76,"text":"最高就是這個美國以色列"},{"start":14956.76,"end":14958.76,"text":"烏克蘭啊這大家都很清楚嘛"},{"start":14958.76,"end":14960.76,"text":"那裡面來講的話"},{"start":14960.76,"end":14962.76,"text":"他們都有實證經驗我們很多地方可以用啊"},{"start":14962.76,"end":14964.76,"text":"那這一部分來講"},{"start":14964.76,"end":14966.76,"text":"才是我們真的需要採購的"},{"start":14966.76,"end":14968.76,"text":"而"},{"start":14967.87,"end":14969.87,"text":"而不是"},{"start":14969.87,"end":14971.87,"text":"當然你低階嘛國內廠商他們高興啦"},{"start":14971.87,"end":14973.87,"text":"但是老實講你那一邊"},{"start":14973.87,"end":14975.87,"text":"只是讓國內"},{"start":14975.87,"end":14977.87,"text":"廠商是針對他"},{"start":14977.87,"end":14979.87,"text":"謹上聽話"},{"start":14979.87,"end":14981.87,"text":"但是真的我們需要的是"},{"start":14981.87,"end":14983.87,"text":"我們需要落實"},{"start":14983.87,"end":14985.87,"text":"我們的無人機產業的技術扎根"},{"start":14985.87,"end":14987.87,"text":"我們歡迎國外的"},{"start":14987.87,"end":14989.87,"text":"無人機的海岸的廠商來"},{"start":14989.87,"end":14991.87,"text":"台灣投資"},{"start":14991.24,"end":14993.24,"text":"我們現在全世界排名他排第15名"},{"start":14993.24,"end":14995.24,"text":"左右15到20名"},{"start":14995.24,"end":14997.24,"text":"左右我們希望能夠排到"},{"start":14997.24,"end":14999.24,"text":"前5名我們希望創造"},{"start":14999.24,"end":15001.24,"text":"大家都想說創造第二座的"},{"start":15001.24,"end":15003.24,"text":"富國深山一定要往"},{"start":15003.24,"end":15005.24,"text":"技術扎根技術升級"},{"start":15005.24,"end":15007.24,"text":"來我走這是我的提案跟"},{"start":15007.24,"end":15009.24,"text":"行政院很大不一樣的"},{"start":15009.24,"end":15011.24,"text":"地方嘛這很清楚看得到"},{"start":15011.24,"end":15013.24,"text":"行政院的版本第三項"},{"start":15013.24,"end":15015.24,"text":"第三條第四條第四條"},{"start":15015.24,"end":15017.24,"text":"講的他要買的這幾項"},{"start":15017.24,"end":15019.24,"text":"局限制裁"},{"start":15019.24,"end":15021.24,"text":"這個這個濱海的監測"},{"start":15021.24,"end":15023.24,"text":"偵測型的無人機"},{"start":15023.24,"end":15025.24,"text":"濱海的攻擊型無人機"},{"start":15025.24,"end":15027.24,"text":"小型自殺"},{"start":15027.1,"end":15029.1,"text":"無人機"},{"start":15028.38,"end":15030.38,"text":"這個顧部長在前幾天"},{"start":15030.38,"end":15032.38,"text":"接受我的質詢的時候他也講"},{"start":15032.38,"end":15034.38,"text":"無人機大概就是"},{"start":15034.38,"end":15036.38,"text":"21萬架無人艇大概"},{"start":15036.38,"end":15038.38,"text":"上千架"},{"start":15037.85,"end":15039.85,"text":"上千台就講得很清楚"},{"start":15041.09,"end":15043.09,"text":"就沒有了出這個字彙就沒有了"},{"start":15043.09,"end":15045.09,"text":"而且無人艇老實講現在"},{"start":15045.09,"end":15047.09,"text":"第一台都還沒出來啊"},{"start":15047.09,"end":15049.09,"text":"你現在畫一個餅在那裡我們都很清楚"},{"start":15049.09,"end":15051.09,"text":"東區無人艇還沒有嘛"},{"start":15051.09,"end":15053.09,"text":"一台也沒有啊誰有美國有啊"},{"start":15053.09,"end":15055.09,"text":"所以我買的就是"},{"start":15055.09,"end":15057.09,"text":"要跟這個地方買"},{"start":15057.09,"end":15059.09,"text":"然後技術移轉"},{"start":15059.09,"end":15061.09,"text":"就是歡迎你們說"},{"start":15061.09,"end":15063.09,"text":"繼續支持第三條支持耐死保版本"},{"start":15063.09,"end":15065.09,"text":"好那我們支持耐死保版本"},{"start":15065.09,"end":15067.09,"text":"耐死保版本你要堅持喔"},{"start":15067.09,"end":15069.09,"text":"沒有你們支持我"},{"start":15069.09,"end":15071.09,"text":"這是你自己的版本你不要叫我們支持你"},{"start":15071.09,"end":15073.09,"text":"然後你自己又退縮"},{"start":15073.09,"end":15075.09,"text":"如果我們支持耐死保版本的第三條請耐委員你自己堅持"},{"start":15075.09,"end":15077.09,"text":"你要自己能夠支持你自己的版本啊"},{"start":15077.09,"end":15079.09,"text":"你要自己能夠支持你自己的版本啊"},{"start":15079.09,"end":15081.09,"text":"我今天坐在這裡不是講要支持我版本嗎"},{"start":15081.09,"end":15083.09,"text":"你從條文"},{"start":15083.09,"end":15085.09,"text":"條文名稱到現在"},{"start":15085.09,"end":15087.09,"text":"第三條你都沒有一條支持你自己的版本啊"},{"start":15087.09,"end":15089.09,"text":"你第三條我支持你"},{"start":15089.09,"end":15091.09,"text":"我支持我的版本"},{"start":15091.09,"end":15093.09,"text":"其他人不容易見啊"},{"start":15093.09,"end":15095.09,"text":"你承諾到我都不敢支持你自己的版本"},{"start":15095.09,"end":15097.09,"text":"我一直講"},{"start":15097.09,"end":15099.09,"text":"我一直講"},{"start":15099.09,"end":15101.09,"text":"我的兩個條文我都支持"},{"start":15101.09,"end":15103.09,"text":"其他人不容易見"},{"start":15103.09,"end":15105.09,"text":"今天才有人請發言"},{"start":15106.43,"end":15108.43,"text":"耐委員有兩個版本"},{"start":15108.43,"end":15110.43,"text":"沒有陳冠廷"},{"start":15110.43,"end":15112.43,"text":"在解釋上就是後面的優以全面的"},{"start":15112.43,"end":15114.43,"text":"這是基本上就是這樣"},{"start":15114.43,"end":15116.43,"text":"我們不是"},{"start":15116.43,"end":15118.43,"text":"我們現在"},{"start":15118.43,"end":15120.43,"text":"我們應該是要怎麼樣快速的完成這個法律"},{"start":15120.43,"end":15122.43,"text":"讓我們的"},{"start":15123.55,"end":15125.55,"text":"無人宰計能夠國防自主"},{"start":15125.55,"end":15127.55,"text":"這最重要的"},{"start":15128.41,"end":15130.41,"text":"現在的版本"},{"start":15130.41,"end":15132.41,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":15132.41,"end":15134.41,"text":"國民黨團的版本國防自主"},{"start":15134.76,"end":15136.76,"text":"民眾黨團的版本國防自主"},{"start":15137.98,"end":15139.98,"text":"國防自主就是要"},{"start":15140.5,"end":15142.5,"text":"在國內"},{"start":15142.93,"end":15144.93,"text":"怎麼樣能夠讓他能夠"},{"start":15145.53,"end":15147.53,"text":"產出飛程"},{"start":15147.57,"end":15149.57,"text":"優質非常符合"},{"start":15149.57,"end":15151.57,"text":"現代的戰爭的"},{"start":15151.57,"end":15153.57,"text":"這些無人宰計"},{"start":15154.12,"end":15156.12,"text":"基本上是這樣"},{"start":15156.14,"end":15158.14,"text":"如果我們看行政版本的第一條也是"},{"start":15158.14,"end":15160.14,"text":"第三條"},{"start":15160.14,"end":15162.14,"text":"第三條第一計劃"},{"start":15163.82,"end":15165.82,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":15165.82,"end":15167.82,"text":"國防自主就是要自己做"},{"start":15167.82,"end":15169.82,"text":"自己生產"},{"start":15169.82,"end":15171.82,"text":"我們投入相關的"},{"start":15171.82,"end":15173.82,"text":"這些預算"},{"start":15173.56,"end":15175.56,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":15174.74,"end":15176.74,"text":"讓產業"},{"start":15177.42,"end":15179.42,"text":"不擔心"},{"start":15179.01,"end":15181.01,"text":"不擔心做了之後"},{"start":15181.01,"end":15183.01,"text":"然後沒人買"},{"start":15183.82,"end":15185.82,"text":"我們就是要讓產業"},{"start":15187.17,"end":15189.17,"text":"國內的產業知道"},{"start":15189.7,"end":15191.7,"text":"有這個預算"},{"start":15191.21,"end":15193.21,"text":"你不要擔心"},{"start":15192.76,"end":15194.76,"text":"企業界趕快往這個好好的發展"},{"start":15196.69,"end":15198.69,"text":"因為"},{"start":15198.09,"end":15200.09,"text":"在行政院的那個計劃"},{"start":15200.09,"end":15202.09,"text":"無人宰計的計劃"},{"start":15202.7,"end":15204.7,"text":"也是為了國防自主"},{"start":15205.3,"end":15207.3,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":15212.79,"end":15214.79,"text":"所以在這樣的情形之下"},{"start":15214.79,"end":15216.79,"text":"我認為國民黨團的"},{"start":15216.79,"end":15218.79,"text":"第三條"},{"start":15218.79,"end":15220.79,"text":"做這樣非常好的定義"},{"start":15220.79,"end":15222.79,"text":"希望大家能夠支持"},{"start":15223.78,"end":15225.78,"text":"好 川冠廷委員"},{"start":15235.93,"end":15237.93,"text":"不是"},{"start":15239.32,"end":15241.32,"text":"對啊"},{"start":15241.32,"end":15243.32,"text":"所以這不就代表說你要支持我們行政院的版本嗎"},{"start":15243.32,"end":15245.32,"text":"你代表要國防自主"},{"start":15249.24,"end":15251.24,"text":"好"},{"start":15250.44,"end":15252.44,"text":"我只是很納悶"},{"start":15252.44,"end":15254.44,"text":"因為主要是政委員講的這幾個說"},{"start":15254.44,"end":15256.44,"text":"針對我們的國防自主"},{"start":15256.44,"end":15258.44,"text":"那說要"},{"start":15258.44,"end":15260.44,"text":"讓我們國內的企業知道說"},{"start":15260.44,"end":15262.44,"text":"我們可以長期能夠自己生產"},{"start":15262.44,"end":15264.44,"text":"有預算等等的話"},{"start":15264.44,"end":15266.44,"text":"那這樣子我們行政院的版本"},{"start":15266.44,"end":15268.44,"text":"特別台會其實就有符合政委員的期待"},{"start":15268.44,"end":15270.44,"text":"那這樣我們不是就慢慢有共識了嗎"},{"start":15273.64,"end":15275.64,"text":"好啦 通過了"},{"start":15275.95,"end":15277.95,"text":"好 那麼主席"},{"start":15277.95,"end":15279.95,"text":"因為今天這個"},{"start":15279.95,"end":15281.95,"text":"14個版本"},{"start":15281.95,"end":15283.95,"text":"就是新創法"},{"start":15283.95,"end":15285.95,"text":"過去會有一個大體討論"},{"start":15285.95,"end":15287.95,"text":"那因為今天主席"},{"start":15287.95,"end":15289.95,"text":"直接進入了法條名稱"},{"start":15289.95,"end":15291.95,"text":"沒有大體討論 現在問題出來了"},{"start":15291.95,"end":15293.95,"text":"我本來想爭取說我們把它分類來審理"},{"start":15293.95,"end":15295.95,"text":"現在我們看到條次的對應不一樣"},{"start":15295.95,"end":15297.95,"text":"有的在第三條"},{"start":15297.95,"end":15299.95,"text":"有的在第四條"},{"start":15299.95,"end":15301.95,"text":"那如果你沒有看這個前後文的關照"},{"start":15301.95,"end":15303.95,"text":"大家現在在前條文後面打架"},{"start":15303.95,"end":15305.95,"text":"後條文就不知道如何自圓其說"},{"start":15305.95,"end":15307.95,"text":"我大概一個一個來跟大家說明清楚"},{"start":15307.95,"end":15311.95,"text":"我當然這個條文我是支持我的版本"},{"start":15311.95,"end":15313.95,"text":"但是我去看比較其他委員的版本"},{"start":15313.95,"end":15315.95,"text":"因為賴委員有兩個版本"},{"start":15315.95,"end":15317.95,"text":"故且稱為賴委員A版"},{"start":15317.95,"end":15319.95,"text":"跟賴委員B版"},{"start":15319.95,"end":15321.95,"text":"那賴委員A版"},{"start":15321.95,"end":15323.95,"text":"他這裡面跟國防跟行政院"},{"start":15323.95,"end":15325.95,"text":"跟本委員的"},{"start":15325.95,"end":15327.95,"text":"跟我們其他 跟本席的"},{"start":15327.95,"end":15329.95,"text":"有哪些"},{"start":15329.9,"end":15331.9,"text":"差異"},{"start":15331.9,"end":15333.9,"text":"第一 他是叫本條例所稱"},{"start":15333.9,"end":15335.9,"text":"國防戰略無人載具"},{"start":15335.9,"end":15337.9,"text":"他用戰略"},{"start":15337.23,"end":15339.23,"text":"行政院版叫做"},{"start":15339.23,"end":15341.23,"text":"國防自主無人載具"},{"start":15341.23,"end":15343.23,"text":"同樣都是採購喔"},{"start":15343.23,"end":15345.23,"text":"那接下來他指的是竹墾機關及所屬機關"},{"start":15345.23,"end":15347.23,"text":"部隊辦理第四條"},{"start":15347.23,"end":15349.23,"text":"所以真的要了解這些條文"},{"start":15349.23,"end":15351.23,"text":"怎麼不一樣看第四條"},{"start":15351.23,"end":15353.23,"text":"那第四條的內容我現在是不談"},{"start":15353.23,"end":15355.23,"text":"那我們來看這個條文內容"},{"start":15355.23,"end":15357.23,"text":"他講的喔 這裡面呢"},{"start":15357.36,"end":15359.36,"text":"鎖定之主要裝備系統"},{"start":15359.36,"end":15361.36,"text":"一樣"},{"start":15360.67,"end":15362.67,"text":"其資源系統之獲得產制一樣"},{"start":15365.17,"end":15367.17,"text":"賴委員A版多了共同生產"},{"start":15367.17,"end":15369.17,"text":"好 那我就很好奇"},{"start":15369.17,"end":15371.17,"text":"這個共同生產是什麼意思"},{"start":15371.17,"end":15373.17,"text":"後面的維修工程及訓練也一樣"},{"start":15375.65,"end":15377.65,"text":"但是呢 賴委員A版多了一個"},{"start":15377.65,"end":15379.65,"text":"集與其"},{"start":15379.65,"end":15381.65,"text":"一併取得之技術"},{"start":15381.65,"end":15383.65,"text":"移轉與工業合作"},{"start":15384.22,"end":15386.22,"text":"看起來好像比較周延"},{"start":15386.22,"end":15388.22,"text":"但是在廣大的第二項看"},{"start":15388.22,"end":15390.22,"text":"就出現了"},{"start":15390.22,"end":15392.22,"text":"我就可以理解是不是"},{"start":15392.22,"end":15394.22,"text":"賴委員認為戰略只有美國才叫戰略"},{"start":15394.22,"end":15396.22,"text":"前項採購以美國或與"},{"start":15396.22,"end":15398.22,"text":"其他國家所產制或"},{"start":15398.22,"end":15400.22,"text":"授權之裝備為主"},{"start":15400.22,"end":15402.22,"text":"其每一採購案均應附加技術"},{"start":15402.22,"end":15404.22,"text":"移轉及工業合作條件"},{"start":15404.22,"end":15406.22,"text":"這個就錯了"},{"start":15406.62,"end":15408.62,"text":"其實美國"},{"start":15408.29,"end":15410.29,"text":"他在研發很強"},{"start":15410.29,"end":15412.29,"text":"整合很強 他不見得每個零組件都很強"},{"start":15414.18,"end":15416.18,"text":"有些如果他都很強"},{"start":15416.18,"end":15418.18,"text":"晶片就不是我們台積電在拿第一名了"},{"start":15418.55,"end":15420.55,"text":"其實美國他現在他有所偏"},{"start":15421.69,"end":15423.69,"text":"譬如說他的基礎工業能力"},{"start":15423.69,"end":15425.69,"text":"其實最近這20年來都逐漸的在"},{"start":15425.69,"end":15427.69,"text":"移轉到其他國家請人家代工生產"},{"start":15427.69,"end":15429.69,"text":"所以美國在很多無人載具"},{"start":15429.69,"end":15431.69,"text":"系統上"},{"start":15431.69,"end":15433.69,"text":"他不是在每一個系統次系統"},{"start":15434.76,"end":15436.76,"text":"零組件都是最強的"},{"start":15436.76,"end":15438.76,"text":"就講一個好了"},{"start":15438.21,"end":15440.21,"text":"現在無人載具當中如果是以自殺型的"},{"start":15440.21,"end":15442.21,"text":"來講他的光電球"},{"start":15442.21,"end":15444.21,"text":"光電球你覺得美國最強嗎"},{"start":15444.21,"end":15446.21,"text":"美國沒辦法大量生產"},{"start":15446.21,"end":15448.21,"text":"上萬顆的光電球"},{"start":15450.09,"end":15452.09,"text":"但是台灣有什麼"},{"start":15452.09,"end":15454.09,"text":"台灣的手機上的鏡頭"},{"start":15454.09,"end":15456.09,"text":"大家都知道大立光很會生產"},{"start":15456.09,"end":15458.09,"text":"那大家分清楚"},{"start":15458.09,"end":15460.09,"text":"不要把高階跟低階當作是一概而論"},{"start":15460.58,"end":15462.58,"text":"剛剛有提到我們無人系統"},{"start":15462.58,"end":15464.58,"text":"我們要獲制的"},{"start":15464.58,"end":15466.58,"text":"我稍微往後看一下第四條"},{"start":15466.58,"end":15468.58,"text":"我們目前國防行政要的是"},{"start":15468.58,"end":15470.58,"text":"濱海堅真"},{"start":15471.72,"end":15473.72,"text":"還有呢濱海攻擊"},{"start":15474.51,"end":15476.51,"text":"等同於耗材跟彈藥"},{"start":15476.51,"end":15478.51,"text":"什麼叫做小型自殺艇"},{"start":15478.51,"end":15480.51,"text":"自殺艇就是有去無回"},{"start":15480.51,"end":15482.51,"text":"在執行這些作戰任務的"},{"start":15482.51,"end":15484.51,"text":"系統載具或者武器"},{"start":15484.51,"end":15486.51,"text":"基本上他就跟彈藥"},{"start":15486.51,"end":15488.51,"text":"耗材一樣"},{"start":15488.51,"end":15490.51,"text":"有去無回你要求的只能達到"},{"start":15490.51,"end":15492.51,"text":"任務就好你不需要他重複使用"},{"start":15493.81,"end":15495.81,"text":"幾千個小時啊"},{"start":15495.81,"end":15497.81,"text":"你不需要重複起降好多的架次啊"},{"start":15497.81,"end":15499.81,"text":"那這個時候你要求的"},{"start":15499.81,"end":15501.81,"text":"零組件的品質是什麼"},{"start":15501.81,"end":15503.81,"text":"可以讓他支撐完成"},{"start":15503.81,"end":15505.81,"text":"他的任務就行了"},{"start":15505.81,"end":15507.81,"text":"所以很清楚的美國的MQ9V"},{"start":15507.81,"end":15509.81,"text":"他是要多次"},{"start":15509.81,"end":15511.81,"text":"多次常時使用"},{"start":15511.81,"end":15513.81,"text":"他的鏡頭很精密"},{"start":15513.81,"end":15515.81,"text":"他的定位系統很準"},{"start":15515.81,"end":15517.81,"text":"但是他不可能用在所謂的FPEV"},{"start":15517.81,"end":15519.81,"text":"自殺型無人攻擊機上"},{"start":15519.81,"end":15521.81,"text":"那這個時候有誰能夠生產這些"},{"start":15521.81,"end":15523.81,"text":"大量的裝備"},{"start":15524.02,"end":15526.02,"text":"所以會大量生產的是中國"},{"start":15526.02,"end":15528.02,"text":"中國之外台灣是"},{"start":15528.02,"end":15530.02,"text":"數一數二的能力"},{"start":15530.02,"end":15532.02,"text":"所以當我們在講這些裝備的時候"},{"start":15532.02,"end":15534.02,"text":"要跟賴委員A板交換一下意見"},{"start":15534.02,"end":15536.02,"text":"這些採購啊"},{"start":15536.02,"end":15538.02,"text":"不見得美國能做"},{"start":15538.02,"end":15540.02,"text":"甚至我剛剛講的那種所謂的"},{"start":15540.02,"end":15542.02,"text":"所謂的FPEV使用的"},{"start":15542.02,"end":15544.02,"text":"這些光電球或者說"},{"start":15544.02,"end":15546.02,"text":"偵查跟打擊合併的"},{"start":15546.02,"end":15548.02,"text":"有去無回的這一種"},{"start":15548.02,"end":15550.02,"text":"其實都是在東歐產製的"},{"start":15550.02,"end":15552.02,"text":"美國連自己本國都沒有產製"},{"start":15552.02,"end":15554.02,"text":"那他怎麼取得很簡單"},{"start":15554.02,"end":15556.02,"text":"他透過控股公司"},{"start":15556.02,"end":15558.02,"text":"直接把人家公司買下來"},{"start":15558.02,"end":15560.02,"text":"那麼以後他的產線的生產"},{"start":15560.02,"end":15562.02,"text":"就專攻美國軍用"},{"start":15562.02,"end":15564.02,"text":"來供應他組裝使用"},{"start":15564.02,"end":15566.02,"text":"美國是這樣做的"},{"start":15566.27,"end":15568.27,"text":"那我們要如果要"},{"start":15568.27,"end":15570.27,"text":"我們有沒有能力跟美國一樣"},{"start":15570.27,"end":15572.27,"text":"去歐洲去東歐把那個"},{"start":15572.27,"end":15574.27,"text":"光電球的工廠買下來"},{"start":15575.05,"end":15577.05,"text":"人家之所以目前能夠做得好好的"},{"start":15577.05,"end":15579.05,"text":"不是我們做不到"},{"start":15579.05,"end":15581.05,"text":"是因為人家已經系統規模"},{"start":15581.05,"end":15583.05,"text":"已經建立了所以他不需要"},{"start":15583.91,"end":15585.91,"text":"他就可以有經濟效益"},{"start":15585.91,"end":15587.91,"text":"那無人載具這個很重要的功能"},{"start":15588.97,"end":15590.97,"text":"他是要有考慮到他的成本"},{"start":15592.8,"end":15594.8,"text":"我沒有做到最好的成本很高"},{"start":15594.8,"end":15596.8,"text":"那我就做比較便宜的"},{"start":15597.42,"end":15599.42,"text":"品質不需要那麼高的"},{"start":15599.42,"end":15601.42,"text":"這個不是高階低階"},{"start":15601.42,"end":15603.42,"text":"這是事才事所"},{"start":15603.42,"end":15605.42,"text":"我們要買的武器是這樣的"},{"start":15605.42,"end":15607.42,"text":"所以當然看第四條我們行政院"},{"start":15607.42,"end":15609.42,"text":"這邊寫的兵海監偵"},{"start":15609.42,"end":15611.42,"text":"那既然是監偵重複使用"},{"start":15611.42,"end":15613.42,"text":"他其實還要有高空的"},{"start":15613.42,"end":15615.42,"text":"偵查能力要長時間的制空能力"},{"start":15615.42,"end":15617.42,"text":"但是你的兵海攻擊"},{"start":15617.42,"end":15619.42,"text":"他就是有去無回的"},{"start":15619.42,"end":15621.42,"text":"所以這些內容都放在第四條"},{"start":15621.42,"end":15623.42,"text":"但是我們看"},{"start":15623.42,"end":15625.42,"text":"過來其實民眾黨的"},{"start":15625.42,"end":15627.42,"text":"民眾黨版跟國民黨版的"},{"start":15627.42,"end":15629.42,"text":"這裡面其實沒有講的這麼具體"},{"start":15629.42,"end":15631.42,"text":"以國民黨版他的第三條"},{"start":15631.42,"end":15633.42,"text":"他的定義"},{"start":15632.76,"end":15634.76,"text":"他就沒有那麼具體的寫到"},{"start":15634.76,"end":15636.76,"text":"他要買什麼"},{"start":15636.76,"end":15638.76,"text":"他這裡面寫什麼"},{"start":15638.76,"end":15640.76,"text":"就是把所有的無人載具的類型入門"},{"start":15640.76,"end":15642.76,"text":"都教訓你了包括懸疑型定義型"},{"start":15642.76,"end":15644.76,"text":"垂直起降型這大家都知道"},{"start":15644.76,"end":15646.76,"text":"然後無人機"},{"start":15646.76,"end":15648.76,"text":"然後水面水下"},{"start":15648.76,"end":15650.76,"text":"然後還有說徵收型後勤"},{"start":15650.76,"end":15652.76,"text":"及作戰型地面"},{"start":15652.76,"end":15654.76,"text":"這些"},{"start":15654.76,"end":15656.76,"text":"然後只要不需要人員承載"},{"start":15656.76,"end":15658.76,"text":"於機體本體的這些都算數"},{"start":15658.76,"end":15660.76,"text":"那請問你這麼"},{"start":15660.76,"end":15662.76,"text":"你剛剛的把所有無人載具可用於作戰的"},{"start":15662.76,"end":15664.76,"text":"都都含進去了那你有什麼漏掉的"},{"start":15666.14,"end":15668.14,"text":"倒是王定宇版本的他講的很清楚"},{"start":15668.14,"end":15670.14,"text":"他這裡面是比較簡略的提出來"},{"start":15670.14,"end":15674.14,"text":"他包括飛行水面水下地面"},{"start":15674.14,"end":15676.14,"text":"然後主管機關公告指定的"},{"start":15676.14,"end":15678.14,"text":"那其他的"},{"start":15678.14,"end":15680.14,"text":"包括什麼不包括"},{"start":15680.14,"end":15682.14,"text":"太空發展法所定之"},{"start":15682.14,"end":15684.14,"text":"發射載具與太空航車載具"},{"start":15685.85,"end":15687.85,"text":"這就很清楚這個版本他清楚知道說"},{"start":15687.85,"end":15691.85,"text":"他講的無人載具不能把太空發展所說的火箭"},{"start":15692.38,"end":15694.38,"text":"我們講火箭有幾種"},{"start":15694.38,"end":15696.38,"text":"陸軍打的火箭是要打一次有恤無悔的"},{"start":15696.38,"end":15698.38,"text":"但是馬斯特的火箭是去了會回來的"},{"start":15698.38,"end":15700.38,"text":"這當然不一樣等同而論"},{"start":15700.38,"end":15702.38,"text":"所以人家的版本講的很清楚"},{"start":15704.24,"end":15706.24,"text":"我的版本講的很清楚"},{"start":15706.24,"end":15708.24,"text":"賴世保委員的A版"},{"start":15708.24,"end":15710.24,"text":"他在把他放在哪裡"},{"start":15710.24,"end":15712.24,"text":"他放在他的第四條"},{"start":15712.24,"end":15714.24,"text":"第四條裡面我仔細看了一下"},{"start":15714.24,"end":15716.24,"text":"原來他叫的戰略是什麼"},{"start":15715.51,"end":15720.51,"text":"高空長航時精準打擊電子作戰"},{"start":15720.51,"end":15722.51,"text":"這叫MQ9B"},{"start":15722.51,"end":15725.51,"text":"廣域海域或持續空域的監控跟反潛"},{"start":15725.51,"end":15728.51,"text":"那這個更厲害這個空空域警機要反潛機"},{"start":15728.51,"end":15731.51,"text":"有人或無人協同作戰或任務自主行"},{"start":15731.51,"end":15733.51,"text":"這到底是哪一種自他頂送不算"},{"start":15733.51,"end":15736.51,"text":"其他具戰略價值之先進無人載具能力"},{"start":15736.51,"end":15739.51,"text":"難怪賴委員一直認為說"},{"start":15739.98,"end":15741.98,"text":"無人載具的使用有高階跟低階"},{"start":15741.98,"end":15744.98,"text":"因為他這裡面解的就是他認為是高階的"},{"start":15744.98,"end":15747.98,"text":"但是很清楚今天我們知道國防部他需要的是什麼"},{"start":15747.98,"end":15749.98,"text":"他需要的是FPV啊"},{"start":15749.98,"end":15751.98,"text":"他需要的是當對岸的萬挺齊發的時候"},{"start":15751.98,"end":15753.98,"text":"我們要有能力把它摧毀"},{"start":15753.98,"end":15755.98,"text":"把他監控摧毀啊"},{"start":15755.98,"end":15757.98,"text":"就因為主席沒有提供一個"},{"start":15757.98,"end":15759.98,"text":"我們的大提討論的時間"},{"start":15759.98,"end":15761.98,"text":"所以我們這些版本完全"},{"start":15761.98,"end":15763.98,"text":"條是沒辦法對應"},{"start":15763.98,"end":15765.98,"text":"所指的沒有辦法對應"},{"start":15765.98,"end":15767.98,"text":"至於民眾黨版的部分呢他這裡寫的是什麼"},{"start":15767.98,"end":15769.98,"text":"他這裡寫本條例"},{"start":15769.98,"end":15771.98,"text":"我現在講的都是我們本條的內容喔"},{"start":15771.98,"end":15773.98,"text":"現在民眾黨版第二條"},{"start":15773.98,"end":15775.98,"text":"跟第三條並在一起審了"},{"start":15775.98,"end":15777.98,"text":"他這裡就定義他定義什麼"},{"start":15777.98,"end":15779.98,"text":"本條例所生的無人機是指無人飛機"},{"start":15779.98,"end":15781.98,"text":"無人直升機無人多軒飛機"},{"start":15781.98,"end":15785.98,"text":"其他的咧其他經交通部民用航空局公告者"},{"start":15785.98,"end":15787.98,"text":"天啊"},{"start":15787.54,"end":15789.54,"text":"我們國防要用的東西"},{"start":15789.54,"end":15791.54,"text":"還要先請民航局去公告才算數啊"},{"start":15791.54,"end":15793.54,"text":"那國防部是不是要買什麼先進武器的時候"},{"start":15793.54,"end":15795.54,"text":"要先請民航局你公告一下"},{"start":15795.54,"end":15797.54,"text":"不然的話我還不能買"},{"start":15797.78,"end":15799.78,"text":"所以我們可以看得出這些內容"},{"start":15799.78,"end":15801.78,"text":"充分顯現出各個版本"},{"start":15801.78,"end":15803.78,"text":"尤其不同的立法宗旨"},{"start":15803.78,"end":15805.78,"text":"所以呢他沒有辦法這樣的"},{"start":15805.78,"end":15807.78,"text":"橫向的條式的整合"},{"start":15807.78,"end":15809.78,"text":"這是擺明的事實"},{"start":15810,"end":15812,"text":"本席苦口薄心跟主席建議"},{"start":15812.88,"end":15814.88,"text":"既然連大提討論都沒有"},{"start":15814.88,"end":15816.88,"text":"就馬上進入了名稱跟條式"},{"start":15816.88,"end":15818.88,"text":"條式在整合的時候有的條式是剛好"},{"start":15818.88,"end":15820.88,"text":"不同的版本他的前後不一樣"},{"start":15820.88,"end":15822.88,"text":"但是根本的目的不同"},{"start":15822.88,"end":15824.88,"text":"有的條式賴委員A版的跟行政院版的"},{"start":15824.88,"end":15826.88,"text":"差一些些"},{"start":15826.88,"end":15828.88,"text":"差很多啦"},{"start":15828.8,"end":15830.8,"text":"你確定你第二項前項所提的"},{"start":15830.8,"end":15832.8,"text":"採購以美國或其他的"},{"start":15832.8,"end":15834.8,"text":"為主一定要計數合作嗎"},{"start":15834.8,"end":15836.8,"text":"搞不好在這些內容上有的是美國要計數"},{"start":15836.8,"end":15838.8,"text":"移轉台灣的耶"},{"start":15838.8,"end":15840.8,"text":"不是台灣要移轉計數美國的耶"},{"start":15840.09,"end":15842.09,"text":"這一定把自己的本土產業矮化"},{"start":15842.09,"end":15844.09,"text":"說我們買的東西一定要跟美國計數移轉才可以"},{"start":15846.06,"end":15848.06,"text":"那如果我們比較強還要分享給他嗎"},{"start":15848.98,"end":15850.98,"text":"所以我是覺得今天我們在審這個條例"},{"start":15850.98,"end":15852.98,"text":"大家口口聲聲說很重視"},{"start":15852.98,"end":15854.98,"text":"口口聲聲說時間重要"},{"start":15854.98,"end":15856.98,"text":"但是到底我們對這些條例不同版本當中"},{"start":15856.98,"end":15858.98,"text":"各個內容有沒有去做個比較"},{"start":15858.98,"end":15860.98,"text":"有沒有做個分類"},{"start":15860.98,"end":15862.98,"text":"那委員主席要我們討論"},{"start":15862.98,"end":15864.98,"text":"我們要怎麼討論"},{"start":15864.98,"end":15866.98,"text":"所以單單是第三條現在就卡關了"},{"start":15866.98,"end":15868.98,"text":"第三條第四條接下來各個版本分歧越來越大"},{"start":15868.98,"end":15870.98,"text":"從前面條式的名稱"},{"start":15870.98,"end":15872.98,"text":"目的主管機關"},{"start":15872.98,"end":15874.98,"text":"到後來的定義名詞定義"},{"start":15874.98,"end":15876.98,"text":"到後來採購的範圍"},{"start":15876.98,"end":15878.98,"text":"我們後面不知道怎麼審"},{"start":15878.98,"end":15880.98,"text":"所以我只不但告訴提醒主席"},{"start":15880.98,"end":15882.98,"text":"你要不要把它分類"},{"start":15882.98,"end":15884.98,"text":"不然的話我們不曉得今天我們要"},{"start":15884.98,"end":15886.98,"text":"以哪一個類為優先"},{"start":15886.98,"end":15888.98,"text":"如果今天各位委員說我們國防採購為優先"},{"start":15888.98,"end":15890.98,"text":"那好那我們就把包括"},{"start":15890.98,"end":15892.98,"text":"賴委員A板有特別預算的"},{"start":15892.98,"end":15894.98,"text":"或者說包括甚至包括"},{"start":15894.98,"end":15896.98,"text":"國民黨當中他用年度預算的"},{"start":15896.98,"end":15898.98,"text":"他就有人喊採購我們把他拉進來"},{"start":15898.98,"end":15900.98,"text":"看看他們要的這些採購"},{"start":15900.98,"end":15902.98,"text":"是不是目前我們國防自主防衛"},{"start":15902.98,"end":15904.98,"text":"所需要的還是賴委員A板說"},{"start":15904.98,"end":15906.98,"text":"要贊月"},{"start":15906.54,"end":15908.54,"text":"戰略無"},{"start":15909.17,"end":15911.17,"text":"你要用國防戰略用國防自主我都可以接受"},{"start":15911.17,"end":15913.17,"text":"但是不要用高階跟低階"},{"start":15913.17,"end":15915.17,"text":"來忽略了我們本土產業"},{"start":15915.17,"end":15917.17,"text":"在這些無人載具產業當中"},{"start":15917.17,"end":15919.17,"text":"某些品項我們是超越的"},{"start":15919.17,"end":15921.17,"text":"我們是先進的我們先進不做技術高低"},{"start":15921.17,"end":15923.17,"text":"是因為我們的CP值高"},{"start":15924.44,"end":15926.44,"text":"我們CP值高所以呢"},{"start":15926.44,"end":15928.44,"text":"人家要跟我們採購因為我們"},{"start":15928.44,"end":15930.44,"text":"這誰說的這黃仁勳說的"},{"start":15931.21,"end":15933.21,"text":"台灣秀歌導播難道就是低階嗎"},{"start":15933.21,"end":15935.21,"text":"不是是我們的東西物美價廉"},{"start":15935.21,"end":15937.21,"text":"物美價廉"},{"start":15937.21,"end":15939.21,"text":"而不是什麼物廉價美"},{"start":15939.21,"end":15941.21,"text":"這點我是建議主席再思考一下"},{"start":15941.21,"end":15943.21,"text":"不然的話我們從第三條以後"},{"start":15943.21,"end":15945.21,"text":"會開始卡關啦因為後面的條式"},{"start":15945.21,"end":15947.21,"text":"都不一樣不知道怎麼審"},{"start":15947.21,"end":15949.21,"text":"以上"},{"start":15950.19,"end":15952.19,"text":"謝謝主席就是說其實我們"},{"start":15952.19,"end":15954.19,"text":"各團團"},{"start":15954.19,"end":15956.19,"text":"其實大家都是希望說"},{"start":15956.19,"end":15958.19,"text":"台灣能夠取得在無人機"},{"start":15958.19,"end":15960.19,"text":"產業上面的關鍵的技術"},{"start":15960.19,"end":15962.19,"text":"然後以及對於"},{"start":15962.19,"end":15964.19,"text":"產業發展有利的"},{"start":15964.19,"end":15966.19,"text":"這樣子的方向"},{"start":15966.19,"end":15968.19,"text":"所以看來"},{"start":15968.19,"end":15970.19,"text":"大家對於就是"},{"start":15970.19,"end":15972.19,"text":"第三條第四條"},{"start":15972.19,"end":15974.19,"text":"都有不同的意見"},{"start":15974.19,"end":15976.19,"text":"那我們是不是只有保留"},{"start":15976.19,"end":15978.19,"text":"因為這個東西其實"},{"start":15978.19,"end":15980.19,"text":"即便是"},{"start":15980.19,"end":15982.19,"text":"王委員或者是"},{"start":15982.19,"end":15984.19,"text":"那是不是先保留"},{"start":15984.19,"end":15986.19,"text":"全部都保留"},{"start":15986.19,"end":15988.19,"text":"因為你剛才"},{"start":15988.19,"end":15990.19,"text":"還支持王委員的版本"},{"start":15990.19,"end":15992.19,"text":"那王委員的版本"},{"start":15992.19,"end":15994.19,"text":"他的裡面主管區關是經濟部"},{"start":15994.19,"end":15996.19,"text":"跟國防部"},{"start":15996.19,"end":15998.19,"text":"所以跟我們不一樣"},{"start":15998.19,"end":16000.19,"text":"所以是不是"},{"start":16000.19,"end":16002.19,"text":"我們就這樣子先保留"},{"start":16002.71,"end":16004.71,"text":"來 讓十八委員"},{"start":16005.95,"end":16007.95,"text":"這個"},{"start":16007.95,"end":16009.95,"text":"周偉一直對我低階高階"},{"start":16009.95,"end":16011.95,"text":"很有意見喔"},{"start":16011.95,"end":16013.95,"text":"如果大家覺得有意見"},{"start":16013.95,"end":16015.95,"text":"我要強調喔 我絕對不會去小看"},{"start":16015.95,"end":16017.95,"text":"台灣的無人機產業"},{"start":16017.95,"end":16019.95,"text":"特別是我們的零組件"},{"start":16019.95,"end":16021.95,"text":"我們很強 大家都了解"},{"start":16021.95,"end":16023.95,"text":"可是就整機整個的整合"},{"start":16025.09,"end":16027.09,"text":"沒什麼平衡了 我們這一部分"},{"start":16027.79,"end":16029.79,"text":"要離世界的標準還很遠啊"},{"start":16030.32,"end":16032.32,"text":"還很遠啊"},{"start":16032.32,"end":16034.32,"text":"這個東西你說"},{"start":16034.32,"end":16036.32,"text":"這個零組件很強"},{"start":16036.98,"end":16038.98,"text":"沒有錯 但是呢"},{"start":16038.89,"end":16040.89,"text":"關鍵有一些零組件我們還是不行"},{"start":16042.13,"end":16044.13,"text":"我們早就可以賣得更多了"},{"start":16044.13,"end":16046.13,"text":"到目前為止我們一定"},{"start":16046.13,"end":16048.13,"text":"國防部還賣得多"},{"start":16048.13,"end":16050.13,"text":"一個月可以賣到"},{"start":16050.13,"end":16052.13,"text":"超過一萬架 現在都沒有"},{"start":16052.13,"end":16054.13,"text":"採購一萬架已經了不起了"},{"start":16054.13,"end":16056.13,"text":"那現在來講 按照國防部"},{"start":16056.13,"end":16058.13,"text":"要採購二十一萬架"},{"start":16058.13,"end":16060.13,"text":"不要忘了烏克蘭一個月就打掉二十一萬架"},{"start":16060.91,"end":16062.91,"text":"烏克蘭一個月就打掉二十萬架"},{"start":16062.91,"end":16064.91,"text":"所以距離量產"},{"start":16064.91,"end":16066.91,"text":"沒有量產 你要談什麼"},{"start":16066.91,"end":16068.91,"text":"護國生產 那才"},{"start":16068.91,"end":16070.91,"text":"很遠很遠喔 所以"},{"start":16070.91,"end":16072.91,"text":"這裡面來講的話 這裡"},{"start":16072.91,"end":16074.91,"text":"別忘了喔"},{"start":16074.36,"end":16076.36,"text":"這個請"},{"start":16076.36,"end":16078.36,"text":"周圍你喜歡看我的版本請你看清楚"},{"start":16078.36,"end":16080.36,"text":"前第二項"},{"start":16080.36,"end":16082.36,"text":"第三條的第二項"},{"start":16082.9,"end":16084.9,"text":"前項採購美國或其他國家"},{"start":16084.9,"end":16086.9,"text":"所以你有什麼東歐啊"},{"start":16086.9,"end":16088.9,"text":"什麼的 通通包括在這裡面"},{"start":16088.9,"end":16090.9,"text":"包括烏克蘭 通通包括"},{"start":16090.9,"end":16092.9,"text":"通通包括在這裡面喔"},{"start":16092.9,"end":16094.9,"text":"那另外一個版的是"},{"start":16094.9,"end":16096.9,"text":"把它定義 我覺得"},{"start":16096.9,"end":16098.9,"text":"既然這麼又花錢"},{"start":16099.13,"end":16101.13,"text":"老實講這一部分老實講"},{"start":16101.13,"end":16103.13,"text":"我是很看"},{"start":16103.13,"end":16105.13,"text":"來講的話 我是肯定"},{"start":16105.13,"end":16107.13,"text":"民眾黨所提出來的"},{"start":16107.13,"end":16109.13,"text":"民眾黨提出來給的感覺是沒有上限的"},{"start":16109.13,"end":16111.13,"text":"有需要的可以發展"},{"start":16111.13,"end":16113.13,"text":"我都支持他們的"},{"start":16113.42,"end":16115.42,"text":"老實講這個錢更多"},{"start":16115.72,"end":16117.72,"text":"這個來講兩千多一個人不夠喔"},{"start":16117.72,"end":16119.72,"text":"你要真的把台灣整聚的"},{"start":16120.65,"end":16122.65,"text":"這個整個的一個"},{"start":16122.65,"end":16124.65,"text":"無人機的產業鏈"},{"start":16124.65,"end":16126.65,"text":"包括它的整廠"},{"start":16126.65,"end":16128.65,"text":"我們就都很清楚了 整廠"},{"start":16128.65,"end":16130.65,"text":"老實講這個能夠做整廠"},{"start":16130.65,"end":16132.65,"text":"沒有幾家啦 別騙人啦"},{"start":16132.65,"end":16134.65,"text":"沒有幾家啦 數的可以數的"},{"start":16134.65,"end":16136.65,"text":"數的出來啦 這個"},{"start":16136.65,"end":16138.65,"text":"數的數的數的出來"},{"start":16138.65,"end":16140.65,"text":"距離說要變成"},{"start":16140.65,"end":16142.65,"text":"富國生產要炸咧 所以這一部分"},{"start":16143.97,"end":16145.97,"text":"我覺得民眾黨提了這個錢"},{"start":16145.97,"end":16147.97,"text":"多會好 但是呢"},{"start":16147.97,"end":16149.97,"text":"我們要審查"},{"start":16149.62,"end":16151.62,"text":"我們要看清楚喔"},{"start":16151.62,"end":16153.62,"text":"每年度來編"},{"start":16153.62,"end":16155.62,"text":"每年度來審"},{"start":16155.62,"end":16157.62,"text":"一直下去喔"},{"start":16157.62,"end":16159.62,"text":"兩千一不夠兩千四"},{"start":16159.62,"end":16161.62,"text":"兩千四不夠兩千五 三千都可以啊"},{"start":16161.62,"end":16163.62,"text":"但是呢 就是要希望打造一座"},{"start":16163.62,"end":16165.62,"text":"台灣變成一個"},{"start":16165.62,"end":16167.62,"text":"無人機產業"},{"start":16167.62,"end":16169.62,"text":"相關的 包括"},{"start":16169.62,"end":16171.62,"text":"領主建 關鍵的領主建"},{"start":16171.62,"end":16173.62,"text":"老實講我們都很清楚"},{"start":16173.62,"end":16175.62,"text":"我們有一些關鍵的領主建"},{"start":16175.62,"end":16177.62,"text":"台灣還是沒有辦法來做"},{"start":16177.62,"end":16179.62,"text":"更何況整齊的整合"},{"start":16179.62,"end":16181.62,"text":"來說的話 這樣的廠商"},{"start":16181.62,"end":16183.62,"text":"其實是非常少的啦"},{"start":16183.62,"end":16185.62,"text":"所以我"},{"start":16185.62,"end":16187.62,"text":"我同意憲法委員講的"},{"start":16187.62,"end":16189.62,"text":"這一部分大家從長記憶啦"},{"start":16189.62,"end":16191.62,"text":"第三條 第四條"},{"start":16191.62,"end":16193.62,"text":"第三條 第四條大家都一起看了啦"},{"start":16193.62,"end":16195.62,"text":"就是不是我們就保留"},{"start":16195.62,"end":16197.62,"text":"第三第四條"},{"start":16197.62,"end":16199.62,"text":"一起看啦 要一起看啦"},{"start":16199.62,"end":16201.62,"text":"第三因為"},{"start":16207.71,"end":16209.71,"text":"不是你說沒沒沒"},{"start":16209.71,"end":16211.71,"text":"現在我們帶出第三條請主席"},{"start":16211.71,"end":16213.71,"text":"對不對"},{"start":16213.26,"end":16215.26,"text":"來請主席"},{"start":16215.26,"end":16217.26,"text":"一個鐘頭請我們說說第三條"},{"start":16217.26,"end":16219.26,"text":"那我講第三條可以嗎"},{"start":16219.26,"end":16221.26,"text":"那我講第三條嗎"},{"start":16221.26,"end":16223.26,"text":"先不要了啦"},{"start":16223.26,"end":16225.26,"text":"先讓我講嘛 好不好"},{"start":16226,"end":16228,"text":"對 個人發言"},{"start":16230.71,"end":16232.71,"text":"哇 你這個啊"},{"start":16232.34,"end":16234.34,"text":"我全部都看過這樣子的結構好不好"},{"start":16234.34,"end":16236.34,"text":"因為各個黨團"},{"start":16236.34,"end":16238.34,"text":"跟行政院等等"},{"start":16238.34,"end":16240.34,"text":"甚至包括各委員的版本"},{"start":16240.34,"end":16242.34,"text":"其實分下來的話就是"},{"start":16243.68,"end":16245.68,"text":"行政院版 國民黨團"},{"start":16245.84,"end":16247.84,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團"},{"start":16247.84,"end":16249.84,"text":"賴氏堡委員"},{"start":16249.84,"end":16251.84,"text":"當然後面還有鍾嘉斌跟汪天月"},{"start":16252.63,"end":16254.63,"text":"那基本上來講的話呢"},{"start":16254.63,"end":16256.63,"text":"一開始的有些的目的就不同"},{"start":16256.63,"end":16258.63,"text":"像我們跟國民黨團"},{"start":16258.63,"end":16260.63,"text":"同樣的立場"},{"start":16260.63,"end":16262.63,"text":"就是放在一般的預算"},{"start":16262.63,"end":16264.63,"text":"然後你的產業發展要支持國防自主"},{"start":16266.46,"end":16268.46,"text":"那行政院版"},{"start":16268.46,"end":16270.46,"text":"當然你就是要特別調理"},{"start":16270.46,"end":16272.46,"text":"Focus在這個採購"},{"start":16272.46,"end":16274.46,"text":"那當然你從這個立法的精神"},{"start":16274.46,"end":16276.46,"text":"你有特別調理"},{"start":16276.46,"end":16278.46,"text":"當然就會有預算嘛"},{"start":16278.46,"end":16280.46,"text":"就會有採購項目嘛"},{"start":16280.46,"end":16282.46,"text":"那是因為你從行政院的角度來看"},{"start":16282.46,"end":16284.46,"text":"那我們如果從產業發展自主"},{"start":16284.46,"end":16286.46,"text":"去支持國防自主的一個方式"},{"start":16286.46,"end":16288.46,"text":"我們就會從研發"},{"start":16288.46,"end":16290.46,"text":"國防部就是開需求規格"},{"start":16290.46,"end":16292.46,"text":"那這個東西你放在年度預算的話"},{"start":16292.46,"end":16294.46,"text":"基本上本來就是按照你的需求"},{"start":16294.46,"end":16296.46,"text":"所以這整個法條寫下來"},{"start":16296.46,"end":16298.46,"text":"本來也就不用去challenge別人"},{"start":16298.46,"end":16300.46,"text":"你就是講你自己的理念"},{"start":16300.46,"end":16302.46,"text":"那這本來今天"},{"start":16302.46,"end":16304.46,"text":"就會今天本來"},{"start":16304.46,"end":16306.46,"text":"就會合個言而治"},{"start":16306.46,"end":16308.46,"text":"那基本上條目"},{"start":16308.46,"end":16310.46,"text":"就會不同"},{"start":16310.25,"end":16312.25,"text":"因為我們也不是在說所有的東西都一樣"},{"start":16312.25,"end":16314.25,"text":"但是你如果到後面"},{"start":16314.25,"end":16316.25,"text":"包含像你的這些的"},{"start":16316.25,"end":16318.25,"text":"是非的一個場域"},{"start":16318.25,"end":16320.25,"text":"或者是非農工業鏈國產化比例"},{"start":16320.25,"end":16322.25,"text":"很多等等"},{"start":16322.25,"end":16324.25,"text":"基本上"},{"start":16324.25,"end":16326.25,"text":"大概就差不多"},{"start":16326.25,"end":16328.25,"text":"甚至你們的產創條例"},{"start":16328.25,"end":16330.25,"text":"升級投資等等"},{"start":16329.85,"end":16331.85,"text":"所以如果你把這些東西列進來"},{"start":16331.85,"end":16333.85,"text":"一定就是前面到這邊就會不一樣"},{"start":16333.85,"end":16335.85,"text":"但你後面很多東西就會相同"},{"start":16338.37,"end":16340.37,"text":"所以我講說我們前面就是在分歧的部分"},{"start":16340.37,"end":16342.37,"text":"本來就是各家各個黨團"},{"start":16342.37,"end":16344.37,"text":"各個有自己堅持的做法"},{"start":16344.37,"end":16346.37,"text":"講完"},{"start":16346.37,"end":16348.37,"text":"那就是我們有聽懂也理解"},{"start":16348.37,"end":16350.37,"text":"就這樣子"},{"start":16349.91,"end":16351.91,"text":"你要說要有個共識"},{"start":16353.57,"end":16355.57,"text":"就很滿"},{"start":16355.51,"end":16357.51,"text":"很悲觀啦主席應該要樂觀正面能量啦"},{"start":16357.51,"end":16359.51,"text":"我很正面啊"},{"start":16359.51,"end":16361.51,"text":"如果說立法院說的法案"},{"start":16361.51,"end":16363.51,"text":"這樣黨團有不同的版本就沒有辦法討論出一個共識"},{"start":16363.51,"end":16365.51,"text":"那就不叫做立法院了"},{"start":16365.51,"end":16367.51,"text":"我們都在尋求共識當中"},{"start":16368.15,"end":16370.15,"text":"主席要加油要正向正能量"},{"start":16370.15,"end":16372.15,"text":"我來講你的版本"},{"start":16372.15,"end":16374.15,"text":"你說這不是challenge"},{"start":16374.15,"end":16376.15,"text":"這是提出版本當中的差異"},{"start":16376.15,"end":16378.15,"text":"造成我們審查上的取捨"},{"start":16378.15,"end":16380.15,"text":"先談你的"},{"start":16380.15,"end":16382.15,"text":"剛剛賴斯巴爾委員口口聲聲說"},{"start":16382.15,"end":16384.15,"text":"我們是要買整機的"},{"start":16384.15,"end":16386.15,"text":"要買先進的要買戰略的"},{"start":16385.03,"end":16387.03,"text":"貴黨團的版本是什麼"},{"start":16387.03,"end":16389.03,"text":"你看我們在看第三條"},{"start":16389.03,"end":16391.03,"text":"像你們的名詞定義的第二條"},{"start":16391.03,"end":16393.03,"text":"除了第一項"},{"start":16393.03,"end":16395.03,"text":"是要經交通部民航局"},{"start":16395.03,"end":16397.03,"text":"民用航空局公告之外"},{"start":16397.03,"end":16399.03,"text":"你這裡所說的無人機產業"},{"start":16399.03,"end":16401.03,"text":"因為"},{"start":16401.7,"end":16403.7,"text":"民眾黨團的版本是在談產業"},{"start":16405.21,"end":16407.21,"text":"賴斯巴爾委員A板是要買採購"},{"start":16407.93,"end":16409.93,"text":"他採購要採購先進的"},{"start":16410.29,"end":16412.29,"text":"但是要戰略的"},{"start":16412.29,"end":16414.29,"text":"但是你們談的無人機產業包括什麼"},{"start":16414.26,"end":16416.26,"text":"全機系統整合一個"},{"start":16416.74,"end":16418.74,"text":"飛行載具模組飛行模組一個"},{"start":16419.4,"end":16421.4,"text":"動力模組一個"},{"start":16421.04,"end":16423.04,"text":"籌載模組一個"},{"start":16423.04,"end":16425.04,"text":"看要放炸彈還是要放偵測"},{"start":16425.04,"end":16427.04,"text":"通訊模組一個"},{"start":16427.04,"end":16429.04,"text":"地面導控一個"},{"start":16429.04,"end":16431.04,"text":"飛控模組一個"},{"start":16431.04,"end":16433.04,"text":"還要有相對應的產業"},{"start":16433.04,"end":16435.04,"text":"這些是模組啊"},{"start":16435.04,"end":16437.04,"text":"這些台灣有沒有人能生產"},{"start":16437.04,"end":16439.04,"text":"有有的台灣可能生產"},{"start":16439.04,"end":16441.04,"text":"不是整機啊糟糕了"},{"start":16441.04,"end":16443.04,"text":"現在賴斯巴爾委員A板跟你的不一樣"},{"start":16443.04,"end":16445.04,"text":"他講的是整機"},{"start":16445.04,"end":16447.04,"text":"你講的是什麼"},{"start":16447.04,"end":16449.04,"text":"產業當中的全系統跟次系統"},{"start":16447.77,"end":16449.77,"text":"明明就是不一樣的目的"},{"start":16449.77,"end":16451.77,"text":"一個談的產業發展要談到次系統"},{"start":16451.84,"end":16453.84,"text":"那我們再來看一下國民黨的版本"},{"start":16454.89,"end":16456.89,"text":"國民黨版本在第一條"},{"start":16457.05,"end":16459.05,"text":"第三條第一項的第二款"},{"start":16459.05,"end":16461.05,"text":"他這裡面還特別告訴你"},{"start":16461.05,"end":16465.05,"text":"軍用商規是以商用規格為基礎"},{"start":16465.05,"end":16467.05,"text":"依軍事需求進行適應性改良"},{"start":16467.05,"end":16469.05,"text":"並符合一定抗干擾"},{"start":16469.05,"end":16475.05,"text":"抗電池脈衝及戰場存活率標準植物輪載具"},{"start":16476.41,"end":16478.41,"text":"天啊這個"},{"start":16478.4,"end":16480.4,"text":"講的都對啦"},{"start":16479.88,"end":16481.88,"text":"但是這是我們有指出任何東西嗎"},{"start":16483.46,"end":16485.46,"text":"現在在軍用的載具上"},{"start":16485.46,"end":16487.46,"text":"這些內容都是基本款"},{"start":16487.46,"end":16489.46,"text":"要抗干擾要跳屏"},{"start":16489.46,"end":16491.46,"text":"要抗電池脈衝不然就被人家暖殺"},{"start":16491.46,"end":16493.46,"text":"要有戰場存活率標準"},{"start":16493.46,"end":16495.46,"text":"而且戰場存活率標準又不一樣啊"},{"start":16495.46,"end":16497.46,"text":"自殺型的要什麼存活率標準"},{"start":16498.8,"end":16500.8,"text":"自殺型的要對方同歸於盡"},{"start":16500.8,"end":16502.8,"text":"還有什麼存活率標準"},{"start":16502.53,"end":16504.53,"text":"但是地面載具要去把商兵從戰場"},{"start":16504.53,"end":16506.53,"text":"拖回來的地面無人車"},{"start":16506.53,"end":16508.53,"text":"那是要有存活率標準啊"},{"start":16508.53,"end":16510.53,"text":"為什麼你派一輛車去把商兵接回來"},{"start":16510.53,"end":16512.53,"text":"這要有存活率標準啊"},{"start":16512.4,"end":16514.4,"text":"這些條例看起來言之有理"},{"start":16514.4,"end":16516.4,"text":"但是看不出他的立法的目標"},{"start":16518.83,"end":16520.83,"text":"然後呢我們再來看一下"},{"start":16520.83,"end":16522.83,"text":"剛剛有講到"},{"start":16522.83,"end":16524.83,"text":"第三條第四條賴委員說"},{"start":16524.96,"end":16526.96,"text":"何必來看"},{"start":16526.44,"end":16528.44,"text":"我們來看一看他的第四條"},{"start":16529.28,"end":16531.28,"text":"他的第二項"},{"start":16531.28,"end":16537.28,"text":"他說前項各款所需之指揮管制與情間增整合"},{"start":16537.75,"end":16545.75,"text":"系統衛星系統鏈資料鏈地面管制站及感測籌載得一併納入採購範疇"},{"start":16546.64,"end":16548.64,"text":"夭壽啊"},{"start":16548.64,"end":16550.64,"text":"這個就是美國最先進的"},{"start":16550.01,"end":16552.01,"text":"這美國最先進的美國的死神就是這個啊"},{"start":16552.92,"end":16554.92,"text":"那請問現在你跟美國買死神"},{"start":16554.92,"end":16556.92,"text":"你說根據我的條例的第三條"},{"start":16556.92,"end":16558.92,"text":"每一採購案都要附加技術移轉嗎"},{"start":16560.95,"end":16562.95,"text":"都要有能夠工業合作條件嗎"},{"start":16562.95,"end":16564.95,"text":"連以色列都不一定做得到啊"},{"start":16565.37,"end":16567.37,"text":"MQ那邊目前有授權給以色列或烏干生產嗎"},{"start":16568.46,"end":16570.46,"text":"愛國者非但愛三行有啊"},{"start":16570.46,"end":16572.46,"text":"愛三行現在要爭取到美國"},{"start":16572.46,"end":16574.46,"text":"讓他在烏克蘭生產愛三行啊"},{"start":16574.46,"end":16576.46,"text":"但是你MQ那邊"},{"start":16576.46,"end":16578.46,"text":"死神有嗎"},{"start":16578.77,"end":16580.77,"text":"連美國這個都不願意釋出來啊"},{"start":16580.77,"end":16582.77,"text":"他掌握這些東西啊"},{"start":16582.77,"end":16584.77,"text":"結果你的第三條這樣寫第四條這樣寫"},{"start":16584.77,"end":16586.77,"text":"對啊啊以後我們只要跟美國買死神"},{"start":16586.77,"end":16588.77,"text":"先跟美國說"},{"start":16588.77,"end":16590.77,"text":"你那個東西全部的電子系統"},{"start":16590.77,"end":16592.77,"text":"你要給我技術移轉喔"},{"start":16592.77,"end":16594.77,"text":"不然我就不能買啊"},{"start":16594.51,"end":16596.51,"text":"那有沒有寫這個條文"},{"start":16596.51,"end":16598.51,"text":"沒寫這個條文我們下次買啦"},{"start":16598.51,"end":16600.51,"text":"現在買了啊"},{"start":16599.17,"end":16601.17,"text":"沒有這個條文也買啦"},{"start":16601.17,"end":16603.17,"text":"那你寫這個條文目的是什麼"},{"start":16604.23,"end":16606.23,"text":"沒有這個條文我們都已經買了嘛"},{"start":16606.93,"end":16608.93,"text":"美國也賣了嘛"},{"start":16608.54,"end":16610.54,"text":"那所以我看啊如果第四條第四三條"},{"start":16610.54,"end":16612.54,"text":"合併在一起看不知道了"},{"start":16612.54,"end":16614.54,"text":"還以為說喔這個很重要"},{"start":16614.54,"end":16616.54,"text":"要幫助我們自主發展錯"},{"start":16616.54,"end":16618.54,"text":"這第三條第四條合在一起看"},{"start":16618.54,"end":16620.54,"text":"以後我們不能跟美國買死神了啊"},{"start":16621.97,"end":16623.97,"text":"為什麼因為第三條第四條在一起"},{"start":16623.97,"end":16625.97,"text":"美國只要不肯移轉你死神的技術"},{"start":16625.97,"end":16627.97,"text":"你就不能跟他買"},{"start":16627.3,"end":16629.3,"text":"所以這不是我覺得不同的版本背後的思維"},{"start":16629.3,"end":16631.3,"text":"我們要是把他打穿蠻腸來看"},{"start":16634.22,"end":16636.22,"text":"有其他檯面下的目的"},{"start":16636.22,"end":16638.22,"text":"我們不希望一個國防採購"},{"start":16638.22,"end":16640.22,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":16640.22,"end":16642.22,"text":"變成是給我們的國防採購穿小鞋"},{"start":16642.22,"end":16644.22,"text":"幫我們的本土發展"},{"start":16644.94,"end":16646.94,"text":"帶金箍咒"},{"start":16646.94,"end":16648.94,"text":"讓他們穿緊身衣不能好好的發展"},{"start":16648.94,"end":16650.94,"text":"所以還是奉勸主席你現在說第三條"},{"start":16650.94,"end":16652.94,"text":"我就講第三條"},{"start":16652.94,"end":16654.94,"text":"有人說第四條一起看"},{"start":16654.94,"end":16656.94,"text":"那版本的差異目的不同"},{"start":16656.94,"end":16658.94,"text":"我就不曉得這些要怎麼整合"},{"start":16658.94,"end":16660.94,"text":"難怪你一開始就很灰心"},{"start":16660.94,"end":16662.94,"text":"不可能整合嘛"},{"start":16662.94,"end":16664.94,"text":"因為你沒有分類當然沒有辦法整合嘛"},{"start":16664.94,"end":16666.94,"text":"沒有整合就要合格言而治保留出委員會"},{"start":16666.94,"end":16668.94,"text":"這樣算完成審查嗎"},{"start":16668.94,"end":16670.94,"text":"到了議員會怎麼處理"},{"start":16669.19,"end":16671.19,"text":"我們委員會的目的就是承願會之命"},{"start":16671.19,"end":16673.19,"text":"能夠幫大院"},{"start":16673.19,"end":16675.19,"text":"幫院會做比較細緻的審查"},{"start":16675.19,"end":16677.19,"text":"所以我馬上讓給謝醫生委員"},{"start":16677.19,"end":16679.19,"text":"所以我還是希望說我們今天"},{"start":16679.19,"end":16681.19,"text":"好好的審查把這些問題都指出來"},{"start":16681.19,"end":16683.19,"text":"就算是最後主席要保留出委員會"},{"start":16683.19,"end":16685.19,"text":"都要讓這些爭點"},{"start":16685.71,"end":16687.71,"text":"不同的版本的差異"},{"start":16687.71,"end":16689.71,"text":"讓我們的社會大眾"},{"start":16689.71,"end":16691.71,"text":"讓所有關心無人宅具產業的業者"},{"start":16691.71,"end":16693.71,"text":"跟未來我們前線的作戰的官兵"},{"start":16693.71,"end":16695.71,"text":"他們知道他們迫切需要的"},{"start":16695.71,"end":16697.71,"text":"武器裝備在立法院"},{"start":16697.71,"end":16699.71,"text":"到底委員們知不知道他們的需求"},{"start":16702.55,"end":16704.55,"text":"謝醫生委員"},{"start":16708.86,"end":16710.86,"text":"好 第三條"},{"start":16713.35,"end":16715.35,"text":"好 現在是水稀號"},{"start":16714.97,"end":16716.97,"text":"我雖然比較晚到"},{"start":16716.97,"end":16718.97,"text":"不過我看那個"},{"start":16718.97,"end":16720.97,"text":"從第二條開始這路就走不一樣"},{"start":16721.45,"end":16723.45,"text":"第二條"},{"start":16723.75,"end":16725.75,"text":"從前面就不一樣"},{"start":16725.75,"end":16727.75,"text":"但是從國防部那邊"},{"start":16729.49,"end":16731.49,"text":"其實還是可以有整合的地方"},{"start":16731.49,"end":16733.49,"text":"那如果說主席今天只是想說"},{"start":16733.49,"end":16735.49,"text":"念完然後就過去"},{"start":16735.49,"end":16737.49,"text":"那當然這也是一種方式"},{"start":16737.49,"end":16739.49,"text":"但是如果從第二條來看"},{"start":16739.49,"end":16741.49,"text":"這個主管機關是國防部"},{"start":16741.49,"end":16743.49,"text":"那大概就是院版"},{"start":16743.49,"end":16745.49,"text":"跟我們許多民進黨的這個委員"},{"start":16745.49,"end":16747.49,"text":"提出來的版本都一樣"},{"start":16747.49,"end":16749.49,"text":"那接下來但是"},{"start":16749.49,"end":16751.49,"text":"賴思保的他的提案也是"},{"start":16751.49,"end":16753.49,"text":"他第二條他這個515變號後面"},{"start":16753.49,"end":16755.49,"text":"這個主管機關是國防部"},{"start":16755.49,"end":16757.49,"text":"所以我是認為"},{"start":16757.49,"end":16759.49,"text":"真的是要有一個共識"},{"start":16759.49,"end":16761.49,"text":"不是合個言耳制的話"},{"start":16761.49,"end":16763.49,"text":"老實講就是"},{"start":16763.49,"end":16765.49,"text":"行政院版的版本比如說跟我的版本"},{"start":16765.49,"end":16767.49,"text":"還有我們民進黨許多委員的版本"},{"start":16767.49,"end":16769.49,"text":"就是就特別條例的部分"},{"start":16769.49,"end":16771.49,"text":"來這個"},{"start":16771.49,"end":16773.49,"text":"好好來說一下因為至少是"},{"start":16773.49,"end":16775.49,"text":"特別條例然後也是用"},{"start":16775.49,"end":16777.49,"text":"這個國防部是當主管機關"},{"start":16777.49,"end":16779.49,"text":"我覺得如果從這個脈絡來講的話"},{"start":16779.49,"end":16781.49,"text":"大家比較好談"},{"start":16781.49,"end":16783.49,"text":"那其他像你們這個民眾黨"},{"start":16783.49,"end":16785.49,"text":"的版本國民黨的版本"},{"start":16785.49,"end":16787.49,"text":"主管機關就是經濟部了"},{"start":16787.49,"end":16789.49,"text":"而且我看是去軍事化就是以民用為主"},{"start":16789.49,"end":16791.49,"text":"那就是另外一個系統了"},{"start":16791.49,"end":16793.49,"text":"那基本上就是兩套系統"},{"start":16793.49,"end":16795.49,"text":"那兩套系統"},{"start":16795.38,"end":16797.38,"text":"基本上你要整合當然就不能整合嘛"},{"start":16797.38,"end":16799.38,"text":"那所以你如果是"},{"start":16799.38,"end":16801.38,"text":"按照這種方式不能整合"},{"start":16801.38,"end":16803.38,"text":"那就是送保留"},{"start":16803.38,"end":16805.38,"text":"那當然也可以"},{"start":16805.38,"end":16807.38,"text":"因為你是主席你要這樣做你想要這樣子處理"},{"start":16807.38,"end":16809.38,"text":"也是可以但是如果是真的想要"},{"start":16809.38,"end":16811.38,"text":"來解決這個事情"},{"start":16811.38,"end":16813.38,"text":"那我認為啦因為"},{"start":16813.38,"end":16815.38,"text":"其實這個期錄還沒有走得很遠"},{"start":16815.8,"end":16817.8,"text":"這個我們的院板"},{"start":16817.8,"end":16819.8,"text":"像我的版本跟賴世保的"},{"start":16819.8,"end":16821.8,"text":"主管機關是國防部"},{"start":16821.8,"end":16823.8,"text":"是用特別條例的我們就這條路"},{"start":16823.8,"end":16825.8,"text":"就來走一次"},{"start":16825.8,"end":16827.8,"text":"然後其他的這個其他"},{"start":16827.8,"end":16829.8,"text":"版本是經濟部的發展民用的"},{"start":16829.8,"end":16831.8,"text":"這個還要這個"},{"start":16831.8,"end":16833.8,"text":"這個這個這個其他的入境的"},{"start":16833.8,"end":16835.8,"text":"那其他的那再來"},{"start":16835.8,"end":16837.8,"text":"再來做這一個這個說明"},{"start":16837.8,"end":16839.8,"text":"我覺得這樣子才不會"},{"start":16839.8,"end":16841.8,"text":"就是說你因為你弄在一起"},{"start":16841.8,"end":16843.8,"text":"你根本沒辦法去解釋沒辦法去解決"},{"start":16843.8,"end":16845.8,"text":"但是如果把它分開了"},{"start":16845.8,"end":16847.8,"text":"國防部主導的特別條例的我們好好來討論"},{"start":16847.8,"end":16849.8,"text":"我覺得會有共識的"},{"start":16849.8,"end":16851.8,"text":"真的會有共識出來"},{"start":16851.8,"end":16853.8,"text":"然後經濟部的呢這個以經濟部為主導的"},{"start":16853.8,"end":16855.8,"text":"版本呢好好來討論"},{"start":16855.8,"end":16857.8,"text":"我覺得也會有共識出來"},{"start":16857.8,"end":16859.8,"text":"但是你如果硬要把它弄在一起"},{"start":16859.8,"end":16861.8,"text":"這就是這個什麼我今天有聽到一句話"},{"start":16861.8,"end":16863.8,"text":"就是藍草就是把它"},{"start":16863.8,"end":16865.8,"text":"同"},{"start":16865.8,"end":16867.8,"text":"同歸於盡"},{"start":16867.8,"end":16869.8,"text":"什麼事情就沒辦法處理"},{"start":16869.8,"end":16871.8,"text":"所以我是建議喔"},{"start":16871.8,"end":16873.8,"text":"是不是我們就這樣子"},{"start":16873.8,"end":16875.8,"text":"國防部為主的特別條例的"},{"start":16875.8,"end":16877.8,"text":"好好來討論一次"},{"start":16877.8,"end":16879.8,"text":"然後呢這個"},{"start":16879.8,"end":16881.8,"text":"經濟部的民用為主的"},{"start":16881.8,"end":16883.8,"text":"然後好好來討論這樣子比較會"},{"start":16883.8,"end":16885.8,"text":"聚焦啦會有這個"},{"start":16885.8,"end":16887.8,"text":"交疊共識產生出來謝謝"},{"start":16888.74,"end":16890.74,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":16890.44,"end":16892.44,"text":"因為我們之前已經就這個已經"},{"start":16893.11,"end":16895.11,"text":"我剛剛也說明的很清楚了就是"},{"start":16895.11,"end":16897.11,"text":"結構上就是長這個樣子"},{"start":16897.11,"end":16899.11,"text":"那我也知道要怎樣"},{"start":16899.11,"end":16901.11,"text":"結構上就是不一樣"},{"start":16901.11,"end":16903.11,"text":"所以你不能把結構不一樣的東西把它合在一起"},{"start":16903.11,"end":16905.11,"text":"除非你是故意讓它談不成"},{"start":16905.11,"end":16907.11,"text":"我沒有故意讓它談不成"},{"start":16907.11,"end":16909.11,"text":"這樣就是充分討論"},{"start":16909.11,"end":16911.11,"text":"那就是說大家一定"},{"start":16911.11,"end":16913.11,"text":"有自己的堅持跟力量"},{"start":16913.11,"end":16915.11,"text":"我的意思是說相近的"},{"start":16915.11,"end":16917.11,"text":"脈絡相同的去討論"},{"start":16917.11,"end":16919.11,"text":"比較會有結果"},{"start":16919.11,"end":16921.11,"text":"就是我剛才講的嘛以國防部為主的"},{"start":16921.11,"end":16923.11,"text":"是一個脈絡"},{"start":16923.11,"end":16925.11,"text":"那以這個經濟為主就是一個脈絡"},{"start":16925.11,"end":16927.11,"text":"兩個分開來談我覺得比較會產生共識"},{"start":16927.11,"end":16929.11,"text":"啊你如果要合在一起談"},{"start":16929.11,"end":16931.11,"text":"就真的不會有共識啦"},{"start":16931.11,"end":16933.11,"text":"好啦謝謝方偉"},{"start":16933.25,"end":16935.25,"text":"可能剛才那個"},{"start":16935.25,"end":16937.25,"text":"李委員還沒來喔"},{"start":16937.25,"end":16939.25,"text":"那因為我們剛才討論到就是"},{"start":16939.25,"end":16941.25,"text":"剛才賴世保委員建議他兩個版本要合併"},{"start":16941.25,"end":16943.25,"text":"如果要支持賴委員版本"},{"start":16943.25,"end":16945.25,"text":"他兩個版本要合併"},{"start":16945.25,"end":16947.25,"text":"他就是以經濟為主管機關"},{"start":16947.25,"end":16949.25,"text":"然後設就是各部會的"},{"start":16949.25,"end":16951.25,"text":"專章這樣子的部分"},{"start":16951.25,"end":16953.25,"text":"那所以不曉得"},{"start":16953.25,"end":16955.25,"text":"是不是就是說"},{"start":16955.25,"end":16957.25,"text":"其他委員有同意"},{"start":16957.25,"end":16959.25,"text":"這樣子的方式"},{"start":16959.25,"end":16961.25,"text":"如果沒有同意我們就必須要往下走"},{"start":16961.23,"end":16963.23,"text":"我們就是保留往下走"},{"start":16963.23,"end":16965.23,"text":"因為基本上來講"},{"start":16965.23,"end":16967.23,"text":"基本上我們在送出的人"},{"start":16967.23,"end":16969.23,"text":"會做這個黨團的第一次協商的時候"},{"start":16969.23,"end":16971.23,"text":"基本上我相信"},{"start":16971.23,"end":16973.23,"text":"大家經過今天的充分討論"},{"start":16973.23,"end":16975.23,"text":"就會去compromise"},{"start":16975.23,"end":16977.23,"text":"一些的版本出來好不好"},{"start":16978.41,"end":16980.41,"text":"這兩句到第四條"},{"start":16983.88,"end":16985.88,"text":"有些人還是可以compromise"},{"start":16987.96,"end":16989.96,"text":"賴世保委員"},{"start":16990.37,"end":16992.37,"text":"請前面機關第四條"},{"start":17002.83,"end":17004.83,"text":"好 跟大會報告"},{"start":17004.83,"end":17006.83,"text":"那協商的版本就是針對"},{"start":17006.83,"end":17008.83,"text":"國防部的"},{"start":17008.83,"end":17010.83,"text":"國防自主需求"},{"start":17010.83,"end":17012.83,"text":"要採購無人機的這個項目"},{"start":17012.83,"end":17014.83,"text":"無人機跟自殺無人艇的項目"},{"start":17014.83,"end":17016.83,"text":"那其他委員的版本"},{"start":17016.83,"end":17018.83,"text":"包括像國民黨"},{"start":17019.5,"end":17021.5,"text":"黨團的這個提案的部分"},{"start":17021.5,"end":17023.5,"text":"有提到說測試場域跟"},{"start":17023.5,"end":17025.5,"text":"產業聚落的這個相關的一些"},{"start":17025.5,"end":17027.5,"text":"條文的部分"},{"start":17027.5,"end":17029.5,"text":"這個部分我想我們已經也納入到"},{"start":17029.5,"end":17031.5,"text":"統籌型計畫"},{"start":17031.5,"end":17033.5,"text":"那也有提到說對中小企業"},{"start":17033.5,"end":17035.5,"text":"要特別扶持的部分"},{"start":17035.5,"end":17037.5,"text":"我想這個在中小企業發展條例裡面"},{"start":17037.5,"end":17039.5,"text":"也都有相關的機制來做輔導"},{"start":17039.5,"end":17041.5,"text":"那至於說還有提到一些"},{"start":17041.5,"end":17043.5,"text":"相關這個無人載具的軟體"},{"start":17043.5,"end":17045.5,"text":"系統整合、維修、工程"},{"start":17045.5,"end":17047.5,"text":"還有訓練的這些事項"},{"start":17047.5,"end":17049.5,"text":"那這個部分是在行政版本第三條"},{"start":17049.5,"end":17051.5,"text":"所訂的這個主要裝備系統"},{"start":17051.5,"end":17053.5,"text":"以及"},{"start":17053.5,"end":17055.5,"text":"其的"},{"start":17055.5,"end":17057.5,"text":"其支援系統的這個採購範圍"},{"start":17057.5,"end":17059.5,"text":"所以我想考慮到這個行政版本"},{"start":17059.5,"end":17061.5,"text":"已經有明定優先採購的這個項目"},{"start":17061.5,"end":17063.5,"text":"那我想可以集中資源"},{"start":17063.5,"end":17065.5,"text":"來推動重點裝備的籌獲"},{"start":17065.5,"end":17067.5,"text":"所以建議支持行政版本"},{"start":17067.5,"end":17069.5,"text":"以上"},{"start":17070.45,"end":17072.45,"text":"安安國防部"},{"start":17076.81,"end":17077.81,"text":"是主席"},{"start":17077.81,"end":17078.81,"text":"各位委員先進"},{"start":17078.81,"end":17080.81,"text":"我想第一個我想先說明"},{"start":17080.81,"end":17082.81,"text":"無人機如果單就無人機來講的話"},{"start":17082.81,"end":17084.81,"text":"我們一二三四五類"},{"start":17084.81,"end":17086.81,"text":"有各種不同類型的無人機"},{"start":17086.81,"end":17089.81,"text":"我想我們這一次的採購的第四條"},{"start":17089.81,"end":17091.81,"text":"採購項目在無人機的部分"},{"start":17091.81,"end":17093.81,"text":"比較著重是在一二類型"},{"start":17093.81,"end":17095.81,"text":"那在臺海黃灰作戰"},{"start":17095.81,"end":17097.81,"text":"是有很重要的這個需求"},{"start":17097.81,"end":17099.81,"text":"那至於賴委員所提的這些"},{"start":17099.81,"end":17101.81,"text":"我想是屬於另外"},{"start":17101.81,"end":17103.81,"text":"類型的這個無人機"},{"start":17103.81,"end":17105.81,"text":"那各種的無人機"},{"start":17105.81,"end":17107.81,"text":"本身都有他的相關的"},{"start":17107.81,"end":17109.81,"text":"在作戰面的一個運用"},{"start":17109.81,"end":17111.81,"text":"那沒有什麼分成高階或低階的"},{"start":17111.81,"end":17113.81,"text":"我想這一點先說明一下"},{"start":17113.81,"end":17115.81,"text":"因為每一種的無人機"},{"start":17115.81,"end":17117.81,"text":"在各種不同的作戰場域裡面"},{"start":17117.81,"end":17119.81,"text":"都可以發揮"},{"start":17119.81,"end":17121.81,"text":"他充分的戰力"},{"start":17121.81,"end":17123.81,"text":"只要我們的運用得當的話"},{"start":17123.81,"end":17125.81,"text":"這是第一點第二點"},{"start":17125.81,"end":17127.81,"text":"我想任何的條例"},{"start":17127.81,"end":17129.81,"text":"在訂定的時候都必須要有他的意義"},{"start":17129.81,"end":17131.81,"text":"也就是說你要定這一條"},{"start":17131.81,"end":17133.81,"text":"目的的意義是什麼"},{"start":17133.81,"end":17135.81,"text":"剛剛主席以及各位委員都已經講了"},{"start":17135.81,"end":17137.81,"text":"我們這個部分"},{"start":17137.81,"end":17139.81,"text":"大概就分成國防採購跟產業發展"},{"start":17139.81,"end":17141.81,"text":"那我在之前的答詢"},{"start":17141.81,"end":17143.81,"text":"也已經說過了"},{"start":17143.81,"end":17145.81,"text":"國防的採購是我們國防部自主"},{"start":17145.81,"end":17147.81,"text":"來決定"},{"start":17147.81,"end":17149.81,"text":"那麼產業的發展"},{"start":17149.81,"end":17151.81,"text":"由經濟部來負責輔導"},{"start":17151.81,"end":17153.81,"text":"那所以第四條的部分"},{"start":17153.81,"end":17155.81,"text":"我們就列舉了這個"},{"start":17155.81,"end":17157.81,"text":"採購的具體的項目"},{"start":17157.81,"end":17159.81,"text":"那這樣子的一個立法"},{"start":17159.81,"end":17161.81,"text":"如果通過之後我們再請"},{"start":17161.81,"end":17163.81,"text":"特別議事長公大員來審議"},{"start":17163.81,"end":17165.81,"text":"這樣子才有訂這個條例的一個"},{"start":17165.81,"end":17167.81,"text":"就國防採購而言才有"},{"start":17167.81,"end":17169.81,"text":"他的意義性"},{"start":17169.81,"end":17171.81,"text":"那如果說大家認為"},{"start":17171.81,"end":17173.81,"text":"這個產業的文件機的產業發展"},{"start":17173.81,"end":17175.81,"text":"或無人載機產發展很重要的話"},{"start":17175.81,"end":17177.81,"text":"那國防部"},{"start":17177.81,"end":17179.81,"text":"並沒有排除說你另外再訂一個"},{"start":17179.81,"end":17181.81,"text":"條例那所以這個兩個"},{"start":17181.81,"end":17183.81,"text":"條例是分開的那現在要把這個"},{"start":17183.81,"end":17185.81,"text":"兩個條例混在一起"},{"start":17185.81,"end":17187.81,"text":"已經各位委員先進都已經指教過很多"},{"start":17187.81,"end":17189.81,"text":"了那到底"},{"start":17189.81,"end":17191.81,"text":"我們的國防採購"},{"start":17191.81,"end":17193.81,"text":"這一個提出來的三類"},{"start":17193.81,"end":17195.81,"text":"這個濱海健身型無人機"},{"start":17195.81,"end":17197.81,"text":"濱海攻擊型無人機"},{"start":17197.81,"end":17199.81,"text":"包括沉浸式投彈式"},{"start":17199.81,"end":17201.81,"text":"還有小型跟中型的直殺的無人機"},{"start":17201.81,"end":17203.81,"text":"那還有第三個"},{"start":17203.81,"end":17205.81,"text":"就是小型直殺無人機"},{"start":17205.81,"end":17207.81,"text":"到底各位委員同不同意"},{"start":17207.81,"end":17209.81,"text":"我們進行這樣的採購這個要講清楚"},{"start":17209.81,"end":17211.81,"text":"如果"},{"start":17211.81,"end":17213.81,"text":"這個部分不講清楚"},{"start":17213.81,"end":17215.81,"text":"國防部幾乎沒有辦法在這裡做任何的"},{"start":17215.81,"end":17217.81,"text":"應答也就是說"},{"start":17217.81,"end":17219.81,"text":"到底你們要用專章也好"},{"start":17219.81,"end":17221.81,"text":"你要同意先有一個特別"},{"start":17221.81,"end":17223.81,"text":"條例也好我們都"},{"start":17223.89,"end":17225.89,"text":"接受"},{"start":17225.02,"end":17227.02,"text":"但是你一定要把我們的國防採購計畫"},{"start":17227.02,"end":17229.02,"text":"按照我們的專需先把它列進來"},{"start":17229.02,"end":17231.02,"text":"產業發展的部分"},{"start":17231.02,"end":17233.02,"text":"你們要怎麼去訂經濟部主管"},{"start":17233.02,"end":17235.02,"text":"那這另外去訂"},{"start":17235.02,"end":17237.02,"text":"兩個事情麻煩"},{"start":17238.17,"end":17240.17,"text":"麻煩就是不要混為一談"},{"start":17240.17,"end":17242.17,"text":"那如果是"},{"start":17242.17,"end":17244.17,"text":"一直在這邊我看討論到現在為止"},{"start":17244.17,"end":17246.17,"text":"我覺得始終沒有"},{"start":17246.17,"end":17248.17,"text":"符合我們所提的"},{"start":17248.17,"end":17250.17,"text":"具體的採購的項目"},{"start":17250.17,"end":17252.17,"text":"那沒有辦法符合我們具體的採購項目"},{"start":17252.17,"end":17254.17,"text":"就沒有辦法達到"},{"start":17254.17,"end":17256.17,"text":"我們一開始提出來的"},{"start":17256.17,"end":17258.17,"text":"我們希望透過國防自主來發展"},{"start":17258.17,"end":17260.17,"text":"我們的無人載具"},{"start":17260.17,"end":17262.17,"text":"那特別是我們現在"},{"start":17262.17,"end":17264.17,"text":"所現在提出的我們認為"},{"start":17264.17,"end":17266.17,"text":"我們的國內產業是可以"},{"start":17266.17,"end":17268.17,"text":"有能力來進行的"},{"start":17268.17,"end":17270.17,"text":"那我們希望利用特別預算的方式"},{"start":17270.17,"end":17272.17,"text":"來一個大規"},{"start":17272.17,"end":17274.17,"text":"一個長單然後進行"},{"start":17274.17,"end":17276.17,"text":"迭代創新這樣子的一個"},{"start":17276.17,"end":17278.17,"text":"立法的一個目的"},{"start":17278.17,"end":17280.17,"text":"那希望各位還是希望各位"},{"start":17280.17,"end":17282.17,"text":"能夠支持"},{"start":17283.78,"end":17285.78,"text":"好 我們先把話講完"},{"start":17285.78,"end":17287.78,"text":"等一下政天才會有"},{"start":17287.56,"end":17289.56,"text":"我們發言之前是不是可以請中科院的院長"},{"start":17289.56,"end":17291.56,"text":"跟我們講一下"},{"start":17291.56,"end":17293.56,"text":"中科院有沒有"},{"start":17293.56,"end":17295.56,"text":"能力做整齊的"},{"start":17295.56,"end":17297.56,"text":"整個整合就是"},{"start":17297.56,"end":17299.56,"text":"製造出來可以"},{"start":17299.56,"end":17301.56,"text":"來做的你跟我們"},{"start":17301.56,"end":17303.56,"text":"說明一下可以嗎因為這個對話"},{"start":17303.56,"end":17305.56,"text":"我發現非常重要"},{"start":17307.15,"end":17309.15,"text":"來請中科院"},{"start":17316.91,"end":17318.91,"text":"在這邊很負責任說中科院可以做整合"},{"start":17321.65,"end":17323.65,"text":"所以就是說中科院可以做嘛"},{"start":17323.65,"end":17325.65,"text":"那所以你現在要的"},{"start":17325.65,"end":17327.65,"text":"這個部長你們"},{"start":17327.65,"end":17329.65,"text":"你們要的錢是不是有一部分"},{"start":17329.65,"end":17331.65,"text":"就是讓中科院來主導"},{"start":17331.65,"end":17333.65,"text":"跟業者來合作"},{"start":17333.65,"end":17335.65,"text":"他們做民主建你們做整齊"},{"start":17335.65,"end":17337.65,"text":"是不是這個意思"},{"start":17338.51,"end":17340.51,"text":"跟委員報告我想中科院的部分"},{"start":17340.51,"end":17342.51,"text":"我們會另外有他的有任何的"},{"start":17342.51,"end":17344.51,"text":"相關我們作戰需求我們"},{"start":17344.51,"end":17346.51,"text":"用偽製的方式請中科院來做"},{"start":17346.51,"end":17348.51,"text":"我們這一次的部分"},{"start":17348.51,"end":17350.51,"text":"全部是公開採購"},{"start":17350.51,"end":17352.51,"text":"戶數絕標開放給"},{"start":17352.51,"end":17354.51,"text":"所有國內有能力的廠商來進行"},{"start":17354.51,"end":17356.51,"text":"那我們認為經過商情的"},{"start":17356.51,"end":17358.51,"text":"評估我們國內的這一些"},{"start":17358.51,"end":17360.51,"text":"廠商應該都就"},{"start":17360.51,"end":17362.51,"text":"我們所需要的濱海健身型的無人機"},{"start":17362.51,"end":17364.51,"text":"濱海攻擊型無人機跟"},{"start":17364.51,"end":17366.51,"text":"小型的自殺無人體"},{"start":17366.51,"end":17368.51,"text":"我們都要有這個能力來進行"},{"start":17368.51,"end":17370.51,"text":"這個是我們現在"},{"start":17370.51,"end":17372.51,"text":"要達到我們最後在暫時的"},{"start":17372.51,"end":17374.51,"text":"黃衛任性從烏克蘭的經驗裡面"},{"start":17374.51,"end":17376.51,"text":"我們希望能夠達到的"},{"start":17376.51,"end":17378.51,"text":"那這一個部分如果說大家都"},{"start":17378.51,"end":17380.51,"text":"一直只是在那一個條文裡面"},{"start":17380.51,"end":17382.51,"text":"去講說我們要去發展無人載具"},{"start":17382.51,"end":17384.51,"text":"我們要去如何如何"},{"start":17384.51,"end":17386.51,"text":"我們對這件事情從來沒有排斥"},{"start":17386.51,"end":17388.51,"text":"那麼國防部就是要採購到"},{"start":17388.51,"end":17390.51,"text":"我們的"},{"start":17390.51,"end":17392.51,"text":"我們要求的事項"},{"start":17392.51,"end":17394.51,"text":"那在這一點如果說沒有"},{"start":17394.51,"end":17396.51,"text":"通過這一點那麼你們就通過"},{"start":17396.51,"end":17398.51,"text":"其他的這些相關的"},{"start":17398.51,"end":17400.51,"text":"產業發展的事項"},{"start":17401.17,"end":17403.17,"text":"那"},{"start":17402.23,"end":17404.23,"text":"就沒有辦法符合"},{"start":17404.23,"end":17406.23,"text":"我們其中這一次的特別條例"},{"start":17406.23,"end":17408.23,"text":"的一個基本的宗旨嘛"},{"start":17408.23,"end":17410.23,"text":"在這一點上面達到我們"},{"start":17410.23,"end":17412.23,"text":"國防自主採購這一個"},{"start":17412.23,"end":17414.23,"text":"相關符合我們現在認為在"},{"start":17414.23,"end":17416.23,"text":"茶海黃衛作戰相當重要的這些"},{"start":17416.23,"end":17418.23,"text":"幾款的這個無人機跟無人體"},{"start":17418.23,"end":17420.23,"text":"是非常重要還是請委員"},{"start":17420.23,"end":17422.23,"text":"支持"},{"start":17423.78,"end":17425.78,"text":"那個那個院長可以請回"},{"start":17425.78,"end":17427.78,"text":"沒有"},{"start":17426.72,"end":17428.72,"text":"我沒有質詢的意思喔"},{"start":17428.72,"end":17430.72,"text":"今天不是質詢今天是我們法案討論"},{"start":17430.72,"end":17432.72,"text":"但是就你提到的第一個"},{"start":17432.72,"end":17434.72,"text":"滴海堅"},{"start":17434.72,"end":17436.72,"text":"堅真型無人機"},{"start":17436.72,"end":17438.72,"text":"滴海攻擊型無人機"},{"start":17438.72,"end":17440.72,"text":"小型自殺"},{"start":17441.96,"end":17443.96,"text":"無人機"},{"start":17443.15,"end":17445.15,"text":"這三項給國內都有產生可以做嗎"},{"start":17446.61,"end":17448.61,"text":"公開彰評"},{"start":17448.18,"end":17450.18,"text":"無人體部分你要不要先講一下"},{"start":17450.18,"end":17452.18,"text":"我所知道無人體沒有辦法有人做了"},{"start":17452.18,"end":17454.18,"text":"有嗎"},{"start":17454.09,"end":17456.09,"text":"都有"},{"start":17456.09,"end":17458.09,"text":"幾家大概幾家"},{"start":17457.95,"end":17459.95,"text":"我想我不需要特別在這邊做"},{"start":17459.95,"end":17461.95,"text":"沒有因為我"},{"start":17461.95,"end":17463.95,"text":"我查了資料老方天"},{"start":17463.95,"end":17465.95,"text":"關於這一批能夠做的就算"},{"start":17465.93,"end":17467.93,"text":"不夠薑"},{"start":17468.04,"end":17470.04,"text":"差不多差不多五家左右到十家"},{"start":17470.04,"end":17472.04,"text":"對不對"},{"start":17472.04,"end":17474.04,"text":"然後我們也都清楚剛才一直有人在指教"},{"start":17474.04,"end":17476.04,"text":"你隨便隨便Google一下"},{"start":17476.04,"end":17478.04,"text":"都知道"},{"start":17478,"end":17480,"text":"Google一下都知道"},{"start":17480,"end":17482,"text":"台灣還是很多無人機的關鍵"},{"start":17482,"end":17484,"text":"零主機沒辦法做的"},{"start":17484,"end":17486,"text":"比如說你抗鋼纜的部分"},{"start":17486,"end":17488,"text":"肝腦的部分"},{"start":17488,"end":17490,"text":"抵抗它"},{"st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有關相關的這些無人機"},{"start":17632.68,"end":17634.68,"text":"本來就有迭代創新的一個問題"},{"start":17634.68,"end":17636.68,"text":"比如說你配控的軟體"},{"start":17636.68,"end":17638.68,"text":"你的通訊模組"},{"start":17638.68,"end":17640.68,"text":"那如何進行迭代創新"},{"start":17640.68,"end":17642.68,"text":"這是我們在採購的計畫裡面"},{"start":17642.68,"end":17644.68,"text":"所要關注的"},{"start":17644.68,"end":17646.68,"text":"要求廠商進行"},{"start":17646.68,"end":17648.68,"text":"這樣的迭代創新"},{"start":17648.68,"end":17650.68,"text":"無人艇也是如此"},{"start":17650.68,"end":17652.68,"text":"所以我希望就是說"},{"start":17652.68,"end":17654.68,"text":"我們扶植國內的這個產業"},{"start":17654.68,"end":17656.68,"text":"透過我們國防部作為最大的"},{"start":17656.68,"end":17658.68,"text":"需求單位"},{"start":17658.68,"end":17660.68,"text":"製造一個長單的效應是我們現在努力的方向"},{"start":17662.41,"end":17664.41,"text":"沒有辦法"},{"start":17663.76,"end":17665.76,"text":"我現在補通一下"},{"start":17665.57,"end":17667.57,"text":"剛才有人指教了"},{"start":17667.95,"end":17669.95,"text":"說這個死神"},{"start":17669.95,"end":17671.95,"text":"其他醫生都買不到這個技術給他"},{"start":17671.95,"end":17673.95,"text":"為什麼要不到"},{"start":17673.95,"end":17675.95,"text":"台美關係不是特別好嗎"},{"start":17675.95,"end":17677.95,"text":"怎麼對這個都自己一點信心都沒有"},{"start":17677.95,"end":17679.95,"text":"美國買不到"},{"start":17679.95,"end":17681.95,"text":"說給我技術輿轉"},{"start":17681.95,"end":17683.95,"text":"其他國家也可以啊"},{"start":17683.95,"end":17685.95,"text":"所以我的條文裡面有其他國家啊"},{"start":17685.95,"end":17687.95,"text":"為什麼我把牌組呢"},{"start":17687.95,"end":17689.95,"text":"報告您提的這些有關MQ-9B"},{"start":17689.95,"end":17691.95,"text":"或者是這個"},{"start":17691.95,"end":17693.95,"text":"RQ-4的這些"},{"start":17693.95,"end":17695.95,"text":"應該RQ-4"},{"start":17696.65,"end":17698.65,"text":"MQ-9"},{"start":17698.65,"end":17700.65,"text":"對我們改MQ-9"},{"start":17700.65,"end":17702.65,"text":"還有其他的各種常識功"},{"start":17702.83,"end":17704.83,"text":"這個"},{"start":17705.26,"end":17707.26,"text":"那"},{"start":17706.27,"end":17710.27,"text":"比較高高空的這些我們講的這些大型的中大型的這些無人機"},{"start":17710.27,"end":17712.27,"text":"我想這些部分"},{"start":17712.27,"end":17716.27,"text":"不是在我們這一次採購的這個項目的範圍之內"},{"start":17716.27,"end":17720.27,"text":"而比較像是賴委員所您所提出的這些"},{"start":17720.27,"end":17722.27,"text":"這些採購的項目裡面"},{"start":17722.27,"end":17724.27,"text":"所以兩個的這個"},{"start":17724.27,"end":17726.27,"text":"中指本來就是不一樣的"},{"start":17731.99,"end":17733.99,"text":"好 今天採委員發言後休息"},{"start":17733.99,"end":17735.99,"text":"然後後續的我們就休息完再發言"},{"start":17739.04,"end":17741.04,"text":"好好好"},{"start":17745.37,"end":17747.37,"text":"主席說"},{"start":17747.14,"end":17751.14,"text":"主席說要休息並不表示我們下午不能發言"},{"start":17751.14,"end":17753.14,"text":"下午還是可以發言"},{"start":17754.95,"end":17756.95,"text":"好 這個"},{"start":17757.03,"end":17759.03,"text":"第四條國防部的行政院的版本"},{"start":17760.67,"end":17762.67,"text":"第四條的第一計畫"},{"start":17762.67,"end":17764.67,"text":"就跟這個"},{"start":17764.67,"end":17766.67,"text":"這個法律名稱一樣"},{"start":17767.42,"end":17769.42,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":17770.09,"end":17772.09,"text":"所以從"},{"start":17771.3,"end":17773.3,"text":"如果我們從第一條到最後一條來看"},{"start":17775.24,"end":17777.24,"text":"看不出國防自主了"},{"start":17778.56,"end":17780.56,"text":"如果要國防自主就一定要由經濟部"},{"start":17782.59,"end":17784.59,"text":"所以這個部分是這樣 基本的"},{"start":17785.75,"end":17787.75,"text":"國防部需要怎麼樣的"},{"start":17788.87,"end":17790.87,"text":"國防部是需要怎麼樣的"},{"start":17791.91,"end":17793.91,"text":"無論再計"},{"start":17793.48,"end":17795.48,"text":"當然了"},{"start":17796.73,"end":17798.73,"text":"國防部可以提供給經濟部"},{"start":17799.45,"end":17801.45,"text":"經濟部在跟相關的產業"},{"start":17803.4,"end":17805.4,"text":"國內的產業"},{"start":17805.4,"end":17807.4,"text":"才能達到國防自主"},{"start":17807.4,"end":17809.4,"text":"無論再計"},{"start":17809.57,"end":17811.57,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":17811.12,"end":17817.12,"text":"當然我們這個可以討論國防行政院的版本是直接列舉這三個部分"},{"start":17819.28,"end":17821.28,"text":"那當然這個"},{"start":17821.6,"end":17823.6,"text":"現在的"},{"start":17823.29,"end":17825.29,"text":"這個"},{"start":17826.28,"end":17828.28,"text":"無論再計"},{"start":17827.71,"end":17829.71,"text":"不但"},{"start":17829.16,"end":17831.16,"text":"不斷的在更新"},{"start":17831.16,"end":17833.16,"text":"不斷的在創新"},{"start":17833.13,"end":17837.13,"text":"所以我們也不要小看我們的國內的產業"},{"start":17837.13,"end":17839.13,"text":"所以到底是不是要直接列舉"},{"start":17839.13,"end":17841.13,"text":"大家可以討論"},{"start":17842.06,"end":17844.06,"text":"是不是"},{"start":17843.93,"end":17845.93,"text":"如果要列舉 那是不是要加個其他"},{"start":17847.49,"end":17849.49,"text":"也可以討論"},{"start":17849.04,"end":17851.04,"text":"但是從整個"},{"start":17851.03,"end":17853.03,"text":"法律的整個"},{"start":17853.06,"end":17855.06,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":17855.27,"end":17857.27,"text":"無論再計才夠"},{"start":17857.53,"end":17859.53,"text":"既然不是"},{"start":17859.53,"end":17861.53,"text":"國防採購無論再計"},{"start":17861.53,"end":17863.53,"text":"既然不是這樣"},{"start":17863.53,"end":17865.53,"text":"是國防自主無論再計"},{"start":17865.73,"end":17867.73,"text":"所以我們這個"},{"start":17867.73,"end":17869.73,"text":"從行政院版本的"},{"start":17868.96,"end":17870.96,"text":"這幾條條文"},{"start":17870.76,"end":17872.76,"text":"就還能達到"},{"start":17872.3,"end":17874.3,"text":"所以我是希望大家能夠"},{"start":17874.3,"end":17876.3,"text":"能夠支持國民黨團的版本"},{"start":17876.3,"end":17878.3,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":17882.49,"end":17884.49,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":17884.53,"end":17886.53,"text":"本黨的版本"},{"start":17886.53,"end":17888.53,"text":"版本當中最重要的"},{"start":17888.53,"end":17890.53,"text":"其實就跟國防部"},{"start":17890.53,"end":17892.53,"text":"差異最大的"},{"start":17892.53,"end":17894.53,"text":"呈現出來說"},{"start":17894.53,"end":17896.53,"text":"黨跟國防部的差距"},{"start":17896.53,"end":17898.53,"text":"這在於說"},{"start":17898.53,"end":17900.53,"text":"不希望說既然它是可以"},{"start":17900.53,"end":17902.53,"text":"國防自主的"},{"start":17902.53,"end":17904.53,"text":"而且還有未來的"},{"start":17904.53,"end":17906.53,"text":"要變成非紅的或者說民主供應鏈的話"},{"start":17906.53,"end":17908.53,"text":"絕對是要很深刻的去"},{"start":17908.53,"end":17910.53,"text":"規劃它整個體系的一個發展"},{"start":17910.53,"end":17912.53,"text":"那因此不能再用"},{"start":17912.53,"end":17914.53,"text":"這種預算的方式的這種驅動"},{"start":17914.53,"end":17916.53,"text":"而是要用的是市場方面的驅動"},{"start":17916.53,"end":17918.53,"text":"這是最大的差異"},{"start":17918.53,"end":17920.53,"text":"這方面沒有解決的話"},{"start":17920.53,"end":17922.53,"text":"我們在國防部它未來"},{"start":17922.53,"end":17924.53,"text":"從到2030年的規劃"},{"start":17924.53,"end":17926.53,"text":"這個前加劇之後"},{"start":17926.53,"end":17928.53,"text":"可能都沒有"},{"start":17928.53,"end":17930.53,"text":"讓它自主的這樣的一個供應鏈"},{"start":17930.53,"end":17932.53,"text":"是呈現出來的"},{"start":17932.53,"end":17934.53,"text":"所以我們才會主張是用"},{"start":17934.53,"end":17936.53,"text":"一般的年度預算來去進行"},{"start":17936.53,"end":17938.53,"text":"那這樣的差異性之後"},{"start":17938.53,"end":17940.53,"text":"後續的本黨裡面所呈現"},{"start":17940.53,"end":17942.53,"text":"所以我們本黨的最重要的"},{"start":17942.53,"end":17944.53,"text":"雖然算是還是用無人機的部分"},{"start":17944.53,"end":17946.53,"text":"但是沒有呈現到無人體"},{"start":17946.53,"end":17948.53,"text":"但是以這邊來講的話"},{"start":17948.53,"end":17950.53,"text":"所以無人機它就是要飛"},{"start":17950.53,"end":17952.53,"text":"然後要監測等等的"},{"start":17952.53,"end":17954.53,"text":"它包括的它從飛航測試認證"},{"start":17954.53,"end":17956.53,"text":"頻譜到出口的"},{"start":17956.53,"end":17958.53,"text":"整個一個規劃"},{"start":17958.53,"end":17960.53,"text":"跟它的制度都是"},{"start":17960.53,"end":17962.53,"text":"在這邊想要我們要呈現出來的"},{"start":17962.53,"end":17964.53,"text":"所以如果大家不能夠正視"},{"start":17964.53,"end":17966.53,"text":"這樣的"},{"start":17966.53,"end":17968.53,"text":"或委員沒有正視這樣的一個需求"},{"start":17968.53,"end":17970.53,"text":"我們不必信"},{"start":17970.53,"end":17972.53,"text":"大家就變成說"},{"start":17971.83,"end":17973.83,"text":"到時候就沒有了"},{"start":17973.83,"end":17975.83,"text":"根本沒有辦法達到我們的目的"},{"start":17975.83,"end":17977.83,"text":"那更重要的是我們知道說"},{"start":17977.83,"end":17979.83,"text":"在過去的這種無人機的產業當中"},{"start":17979.83,"end":17981.83,"text":"我們的確有發展"},{"start":17981.83,"end":17983.83,"text":"但是還有很多的是還沒有發展的"},{"start":17983.83,"end":17985.83,"text":"就是說比較在偵測"},{"start":17985.83,"end":17987.83,"text":"或是在遙測的這些能力"},{"start":17987.83,"end":17989.83,"text":"這些能力的部分都需要有些"},{"start":17989.83,"end":17991.83,"text":"更多的一個能量的"},{"start":17991.83,"end":17993.83,"text":"更多的這種技術的合作"},{"start":17993.83,"end":17995.83,"text":"但是我們中間也看到說"},{"start":17995.83,"end":17997.83,"text":"有些的是弊案出現了"},{"start":17997.83,"end":17999.83,"text":"或者說有些問題出現了"},{"start":17999.83,"end":18001.83,"text":"所以我們要在這個制度建立好對我們可常可久的"},{"start":18001.83,"end":18003.83,"text":"無人機產業"},{"start":18003.83,"end":18005.83,"text":"而且這個產業是要去"},{"start":18005.83,"end":18007.83,"text":"支持的是國防的這一部分"},{"start":18007.83,"end":18009.83,"text":"所有的整體的目標是往這邊"},{"start":18009.83,"end":18011.83,"text":"去進行"},{"start":18011.83,"end":18013.83,"text":"因此我們很嚴肅的在認知"},{"start":18013.83,"end":18015.83,"text":"去做這樣的考量"},{"start":18015.83,"end":18017.83,"text":"希望大家能夠知道這樣子的一個意涵"},{"start":18017.83,"end":18019.83,"text":"而不是說"},{"start":18019.83,"end":18021.83,"text":"年度預算這部分"},{"start":18021.83,"end":18023.83,"text":"去年的或是今年115年是比較特殊"},{"start":18023.83,"end":18025.83,"text":"但是大家也知道說好好審預算"},{"start":18025.83,"end":18027.83,"text":"然後預算把它呈現出來之後"},{"start":18027.83,"end":18029.83,"text":"因為重要性已經出現了"},{"start":18030.84,"end":18032.84,"text":"就把它好好的"},{"start":18032.84,"end":18034.84,"text":"剛剛大家所擔憂的"},{"start":18034.84,"end":18036.84,"text":"特別預算的不行的反正國防預算"},{"start":18036.84,"end":18038.84,"text":"國防的支出這邊都是無人機"},{"start":18038.84,"end":18040.84,"text":"這麼重要的在整個不對算的部分"},{"start":18040.84,"end":18042.84,"text":"台灣又是更需要注重"},{"start":18042.84,"end":18044.84,"text":"這個目標的話"},{"start":18044.84,"end":18046.84,"text":"當然就會全力的支持"},{"start":18047.56,"end":18049.56,"text":"好"},{"start":18049.64,"end":18051.64,"text":"你要先"},{"start":18051.41,"end":18053.41,"text":"你"},{"start":18055.2,"end":18057.2,"text":"好"},{"start":18057.2,"end":18059.2,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":18059.2,"end":18061.2,"text":"其實不管是剛剛部長所講"},{"start":18061.2,"end":18063.2,"text":"或是我們在國防委員會的質詢"},{"start":18063.2,"end":18065.2,"text":"其實部長都已經講得很清楚了"},{"start":18065.2,"end":18067.2,"text":"這個"},{"start":18067.2,"end":18069.2,"text":"監偵起的無人機攻擊起的無人機"},{"start":18069.2,"end":18071.2,"text":"還有自殺無人體"},{"start":18071.2,"end":18073.2,"text":"國內廠商是可以做有這個能力可以做"},{"start":18073.94,"end":18075.94,"text":"所以不要去懷疑國內廠商的能力"},{"start":18075.94,"end":18077.94,"text":"是第一個"},{"start":18077.94,"end":18079.94,"text":"第二個"},{"start":18079.3,"end":18081.3,"text":"部長就直球對決了"},{"start":18081.77,"end":18083.77,"text":"直球對決"},{"start":18083.77,"end":18085.77,"text":"現在國防部有這個需求的這三款"},{"start":18085.77,"end":18087.77,"text":"剛剛講的"},{"start":18087.77,"end":18089.77,"text":"這個兵海增艦型攻擊型"},{"start":18089.77,"end":18091.77,"text":"小型這個自殺無人體"},{"start":18091.77,"end":18093.77,"text":"到底國民黨的代表"},{"start":18093.9,"end":18095.9,"text":"民眾黨代表"},{"start":18095.35,"end":18097.35,"text":"到底同不同意要買"},{"start":18097.68,"end":18099.68,"text":"到底同不同意要買"},{"start":18099.68,"end":18101.68,"text":"那如果同意要買的話"},{"start":18100.83,"end":18102.83,"text":"好那就OK了"},{"start":18102.83,"end":18104.83,"text":"那就OK了"},{"start":18104.83,"end":18106.83,"text":"你們要去發展這一個"},{"start":18106.83,"end":18108.83,"text":"民用的商用的"},{"start":18108.83,"end":18110.83,"text":"一樣去發展這沒有衝突"},{"start":18111.52,"end":18113.52,"text":"國防部要的這三款你們就不要了"},{"start":18114.55,"end":18116.55,"text":"你們就不要了"},{"start":18116.68,"end":18118.68,"text":"那要嘛"},{"start":18118.68,"end":18120.68,"text":"那如果要的話就可以啊"},{"start":18120.68,"end":18122.68,"text":"這是一個最關鍵的問題嘛"},{"start":18122.68,"end":18124.68,"text":"國民黨跟民眾黨要不要這三款"},{"start":18124.68,"end":18126.68,"text":"如果要的話大家就可以"},{"start":18126.68,"end":18128.68,"text":"繼續往下談了嘛"},{"start":18128.68,"end":18130.68,"text":"你們要商用民用的都可以"},{"start":18130.68,"end":18132.68,"text":"都可以繼續在發展那沒有關係"},{"start":18132.68,"end":18134.68,"text":"你們要分五年六年十年去發展都OK"},{"start":18134.68,"end":18136.68,"text":"扶持國內廠商都可以"},{"start":18136.68,"end":18138.68,"text":"但是如果這三款你們不要的話"},{"start":18138.68,"end":18140.68,"text":"那如果要"},{"start":18140.68,"end":18142.68,"text":"如果要就可以繼續談嘛"},{"start":18142.68,"end":18144.68,"text":"那如果不要的話"},{"start":18144.68,"end":18146.68,"text":"那最重要其實就是他要買這三樣"},{"start":18146.68,"end":18148.68,"text":"到底這一檔願不願意給"},{"start":18148.68,"end":18150.68,"text":"願不願意讓他通過"},{"start":18150.68,"end":18152.68,"text":"就這麼簡單而已啊"},{"start":18154.6,"end":18156.6,"text":"來 張廖編委"},{"start":18156.76,"end":18158.76,"text":"剛剛我們李委員說到重點"},{"start":18160.03,"end":18162.03,"text":"其實我們看到我們的條文第八頁"},{"start":18163.49,"end":18165.49,"text":"憲法版的第四條"},{"start":18165.49,"end":18167.49,"text":"跟國民黨的第十六條你拿來對照一下"},{"start":18167.49,"end":18169.49,"text":"你會發現"},{"start":18169.49,"end":18171.49,"text":"如果按照國民黨的第十六條"},{"start":18171.49,"end":18173.49,"text":"他的一二三款"},{"start":18174.36,"end":18176.36,"text":"憲法版的那三款"},{"start":18176.36,"end":18178.36,"text":"通通可以涵蓋在他裡面的第一款的軍用無人載具"},{"start":18178.36,"end":18180.36,"text":"通通可以嘛"},{"start":18180.36,"end":18182.36,"text":"那為什麼不用國民黨團版呢"},{"start":18182.36,"end":18184.36,"text":"因為"},{"start":18184.59,"end":18186.59,"text":"國民黨團版是用年度預算"},{"start":18187.57,"end":18189.57,"text":"年度預算在我們的武器貨制當中"},{"start":18189.57,"end":18191.57,"text":"本來國防部行政院就可以自主編列"},{"start":18191.57,"end":18193.57,"text":"所以如果要按照國民黨說用"},{"start":18193.57,"end":18195.57,"text":"國民黨買用年度預算買"},{"start":18195.57,"end":18197.57,"text":"根本不用再來這邊審特別條例"},{"start":18197.57,"end":18199.57,"text":"今天國防部之所以要"},{"start":18199.57,"end":18201.57,"text":"特別條例"},{"start":18201.57,"end":18203.57,"text":"是因為要動用到年度預算以外的"},{"start":18203.57,"end":18205.57,"text":"特別預算"},{"start":18205.57,"end":18207.57,"text":"為什麼要動用特別預算"},{"start":18207.57,"end":18209.57,"text":"要有一定的長單"},{"start":18209.57,"end":18211.57,"text":"要跨越我們的預算年度"},{"start":18211.57,"end":18213.57,"text":"那這樣子呢人家才會願意來幫你生產"},{"start":18213.57,"end":18215.57,"text":"那至於"},{"start":18215.57,"end":18217.57,"text":"我們現在要肯定一下行政院版這三款"},{"start":18217.57,"end":18219.57,"text":"的確是目前我們台海作戰最迫切需要的"},{"start":18219.57,"end":18221.57,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":18221.57,"end":18223.57,"text":"這三款都是在防衛台灣海峽的"},{"start":18223.57,"end":18225.57,"text":"前面第一款第二款都是兵海型"},{"start":18225.57,"end":18227.57,"text":"從我們案上"},{"start":18227.57,"end":18229.57,"text":"或者說艦上發射出去"},{"start":18229.57,"end":18231.57,"text":"針箭"},{"start":18231.57,"end":18233.57,"text":"攻擊型"},{"start":18233.57,"end":18235.57,"text":"然後對付所有渡海攻擊的船隊"},{"start":18235.57,"end":18237.57,"text":"我們就要這兩個"},{"start":18237.57,"end":18239.57,"text":"但是還不夠"},{"start":18239.21,"end":18241.21,"text":"因為目前的我們的"},{"start":18241.21,"end":18243.21,"text":"攻擊的無人機"},{"start":18243.21,"end":18245.21,"text":"它的"},{"start":18245.05,"end":18247.05,"text":"它的"},{"start":18245.98,"end":18247.98,"text":"炸藥"},{"start":18247.28,"end":18249.28,"text":"當量有限"},{"start":18249.28,"end":18251.28,"text":"所以能夠承載比較大的彈頭的"},{"start":18251.28,"end":18253.28,"text":"是自殺無人艇"},{"start":18252.84,"end":18254.84,"text":"所以無人艇要用來對付"},{"start":18254.84,"end":18256.84,"text":"我們水面上大型的目標"},{"start":18256.84,"end":18258.84,"text":"甚至還有水下的"},{"start":18258.84,"end":18260.84,"text":"那這裡的無人艇因為它水上水下都可以"},{"start":18260.84,"end":18262.84,"text":"涵蓋在內"},{"start":18262.84,"end":18264.84,"text":"那水下的無人載具當然要對付什麼"},{"start":18264.84,"end":18266.84,"text":"對付不要高價值的啊"},{"start":18266.84,"end":18268.84,"text":"像對方的潛艇啊當然不能來威脅啊"},{"start":18268.84,"end":18270.84,"text":"所以我先肯定"},{"start":18269.64,"end":18271.64,"text":"這三項是迫切需要"},{"start":18271.64,"end":18273.64,"text":"來建置我們台海防衛武力的武器"},{"start":18275.19,"end":18277.19,"text":"但是它需要用"},{"start":18277.19,"end":18279.19,"text":"跨年度的特別預算"},{"start":18279.19,"end":18281.19,"text":"來配置才不會排擠到"},{"start":18281.19,"end":18283.19,"text":"我們國防部在年度預算當中所要"},{"start":18283.19,"end":18285.19,"text":"貨製的其他的軍備"},{"start":18285.19,"end":18287.19,"text":"那如果按照國防部這個條款你用年度預算"},{"start":18287.19,"end":18289.19,"text":"寫跟沒寫都一樣國防部都可以買啦"},{"start":18289.19,"end":18291.19,"text":"現在國防部要的是"},{"start":18291.19,"end":18293.19,"text":"我要買這幾項你要不要額外給我一個"},{"start":18293.19,"end":18295.19,"text":"跨年度的特別預算讓我買"},{"start":18295.19,"end":18297.19,"text":"就是這麼一句話而已"},{"start":18297.19,"end":18299.19,"text":"但是我們還是呢要來看一下"},{"start":18299.19,"end":18301.19,"text":"剛剛有幾位委員"},{"start":18301.19,"end":18303.19,"text":"指教的到底我們台海的防衛戰略"},{"start":18303.19,"end":18305.19,"text":"無人載具角色是什麼"},{"start":18305.19,"end":18307.19,"text":"有人說你只要買了就好啦"},{"start":18307.19,"end":18309.19,"text":"買到高階的就可以啊"},{"start":18309.19,"end":18311.19,"text":"大錯特錯"},{"start":18310.71,"end":18312.71,"text":"就像說"},{"start":18311.86,"end":18313.86,"text":"你會養狼狗你會繁殖狼狗"},{"start":18313.86,"end":18315.86,"text":"你會訓練狼狗嗎"},{"start":18317.18,"end":18319.18,"text":"訓練"},{"start":18318.48,"end":18320.48,"text":"跟資料庫是重要的無人載具很重要一項"},{"start":18320.48,"end":18322.48,"text":"舉例來講"},{"start":18322.48,"end":18324.48,"text":"你可以繁殖狼狗但是狼狗"},{"start":18324.48,"end":18326.48,"text":"有沒有辦法辨別是好人壞人"},{"start":18327.61,"end":18329.61,"text":"如果不能辨識目標"},{"start":18329.61,"end":18331.61,"text":"這個狼狗養起來你雖然能夠讓歹徒失去攻擊力"},{"start":18331.61,"end":18333.61,"text":"他把好人咬傷了你還要陪他"},{"start":18333.61,"end":18335.61,"text":"無人載具的攻擊"},{"start":18335.61,"end":18337.61,"text":"他不是只靠他裝備本身的性能"},{"start":18337.61,"end":18339.61,"text":"而已"},{"start":18339.61,"end":18341.61,"text":"這裡面還需要一個很長時間的培養"},{"start":18341.61,"end":18343.61,"text":"我舉例來講"},{"start":18343.61,"end":18345.61,"text":"目前以無人艇來講"},{"start":18345.61,"end":18347.61,"text":"目前的無人艇台灣能不能成造啊"},{"start":18347.61,"end":18349.61,"text":"剛剛賴委員說台灣有沒有能力可以知道"},{"start":18349.61,"end":18351.61,"text":"我跟你保證我都去過了"},{"start":18351.42,"end":18353.42,"text":"還不能製造"},{"start":18353.42,"end":18355.42,"text":"問題是製造後好不好用"},{"start":18355.42,"end":18357.42,"text":"其實國防部這邊要思考一下"},{"start":18357.55,"end":18359.55,"text":"基本上目前"},{"start":18359.55,"end":18361.55,"text":"我們過去的"},{"start":18361.55,"end":18363.55,"text":"達到目標去自殺型的無人載具"},{"start":18363.55,"end":18365.55,"text":"到達目標去之前"},{"start":18365.55,"end":18367.55,"text":"你可以用衛星導航你可以用電磁波導航"},{"start":18367.55,"end":18369.55,"text":"那當然後者有被偵測的風險"},{"start":18369.55,"end":18371.55,"text":"你用衛星導航"},{"start":18371.55,"end":18373.55,"text":"也會被干擾的風險"},{"start":18373.55,"end":18375.55,"text":"你用圖像導航"},{"start":18375.55,"end":18377.55,"text":"這個好一點最後要能夠在這個過程當中"},{"start":18377.55,"end":18379.55,"text":"要能夠避障"},{"start":18379.55,"end":18381.55,"text":"要能夠鎖定目標"},{"start":18381.55,"end":18383.55,"text":"你需要知道說誰是目標誰不是目標"},{"start":18383.55,"end":18385.55,"text":"總不能航不浪漫看到水面艦艇就打吧"},{"start":18385.55,"end":18387.55,"text":"打到自己的船怎麼辦"},{"start":18387.55,"end":18389.55,"text":"要針對對方的艦艇打"},{"start":18389.55,"end":18391.55,"text":"那對方的艦艇長什麼樣子"},{"start":18391.55,"end":18393.55,"text":"有收集這個圖資嗎"},{"start":18391.99,"end":18393.99,"text":"其實不是買裝備而已"},{"start":18393.99,"end":18395.99,"text":"還要買整套的訓練"},{"start":18395.99,"end":18397.99,"text":"跟他背後的資源系統"},{"start":18397.99,"end":18399.99,"text":"這才是我們今天看到國防部行政院的版本當中"},{"start":18399.99,"end":18401.99,"text":"我們認為這個項目要"},{"start":18401.99,"end":18403.99,"text":"但是這個項目背後"},{"start":18403.99,"end":18405.99,"text":"整套的這些"},{"start":18405.99,"end":18407.99,"text":"支撐這個作戰目標的"},{"start":18407.99,"end":18409.99,"text":"這些都要去獲制"},{"start":18409.99,"end":18411.99,"text":"我在講一個剛剛在談到反制無人機"},{"start":18412.57,"end":18414.57,"text":"反制無人機最大的問題是什麼"},{"start":18415.34,"end":18417.34,"text":"你要是用被動雷達去偵測他的電磁波"},{"start":18417.34,"end":18419.34,"text":"你要知道他電磁波特徵"},{"start":18419.34,"end":18421.34,"text":"現在無人機的導航"},{"start":18421.34,"end":18423.34,"text":"控制用的都是4G"},{"start":18423.34,"end":18425.34,"text":"5G的一個頻道"},{"start":18425.34,"end":18427.34,"text":"那現在我們台灣大家拿的手機"},{"start":18427.34,"end":18429.34,"text":"4G 5G的誰知道這個空中"},{"start":18429.34,"end":18431.34,"text":"的電磁波是無人機發出來的"},{"start":18431.34,"end":18433.34,"text":"所以首先反制無人機"},{"start":18433.34,"end":18435.34,"text":"要先辨識哪些是目標"},{"start":18435.34,"end":18437.34,"text":"他要有大量的現存"},{"start":18437.34,"end":18439.34,"text":"在使用的無人機"},{"start":18439.34,"end":18441.34,"text":"他的電磁波特徵"},{"start":18441.34,"end":18443.34,"text":"就像森納要知道鯨魚跟海豚"},{"start":18443.34,"end":18445.34,"text":"跟潛艇是不一樣的"},{"start":18445.34,"end":18447.34,"text":"你要有森納的生文資料"},{"start":18447.34,"end":18449.34,"text":"你沒有生文資料庫你怎麼知道你的目標"},{"start":18449.34,"end":18451.34,"text":"在哪裡你要打誰呢"},{"start":18451.34,"end":18453.34,"text":"所以這些都不是一個所謂的裝備"},{"start":18453.34,"end":18455.34,"text":"到底台灣能不能生產"},{"start":18455.34,"end":18457.34,"text":"但是台灣生產的裝備"},{"start":18457.34,"end":18459.34,"text":"有沒有辦法透過適當的訓練"},{"start":18460.16,"end":18462.16,"text":"跟資料庫能夠建置其他"},{"start":18462.16,"end":18464.16,"text":"完成他的作戰目標"},{"start":18464.16,"end":18466.16,"text":"這才是我們在看這個國防預算"},{"start":18466.16,"end":18468.16,"text":"我們甚至背後進一步要去追究的一個內容"},{"start":18468.16,"end":18470.16,"text":"所以反制無人機"},{"start":18470.16,"end":18472.16,"text":"如果你沒辦法"},{"start":18471.86,"end":18473.86,"text":"判斷他的電磁波特徵"},{"start":18473.86,"end":18475.86,"text":"你如何去發射干擾信號"},{"start":18475.86,"end":18477.86,"text":"你如何讓他強迫降落"},{"start":18477.86,"end":18479.86,"text":"他會跳屏你怎麼知道他會跳什麼屏"},{"start":18479.86,"end":18481.86,"text":"現在的無人載具的干擾"},{"start":18481.86,"end":18483.86,"text":"跟反干擾是個碟對碟"},{"start":18483.86,"end":18485.86,"text":"我要怎麼去變平"},{"start":18485.66,"end":18487.66,"text":"你要抓得到啊"},{"start":18487.66,"end":18489.66,"text":"跳屏跳屏你都抓不到我你根本不要反制我"},{"start":18489.66,"end":18491.66,"text":"不要干擾我"},{"start":18491.66,"end":18493.66,"text":"更不要說你如果最後不是用電磁波引導"},{"start":18493.66,"end":18495.66,"text":"你是用其他的影像引導"},{"start":18495.66,"end":18497.66,"text":"你連軟煞都做不到"},{"start":18497.66,"end":18499.66,"text":"所以這種情況之下我們希望"},{"start":18499.66,"end":18501.66,"text":"再來看看民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":18501.66,"end":18503.66,"text":"因為民眾黨團的版本他是放在"},{"start":18503.66,"end":18505.66,"text":"第二條當中"},{"start":18505.66,"end":18507.66,"text":"有一個很大的問題"},{"start":18507.66,"end":18509.66,"text":"我特別要指出來"},{"start":18509.66,"end":18511.66,"text":"因為主席在這裡特別要跟主席來回應一下"},{"start":18511.66,"end":18513.66,"text":"因為你們這個部分說"},{"start":18513.66,"end":18515.66,"text":"最後一項本條例所稱可信任供應鏈"},{"start":18515.66,"end":18517.66,"text":"指無人機系統及其關鍵的"},{"start":18517.66,"end":18519.66,"text":"88888"},{"start":18519.66,"end":18523.66,"text":"這些要符合主管機關公告之可信任供應鏈的分級認證制度"},{"start":18525.38,"end":18527.38,"text":"這個是什麼"},{"start":18527.38,"end":18529.38,"text":"在美國就是GREEM U"},{"start":18529.6,"end":18531.6,"text":"SA"},{"start":18530.72,"end":18532.72,"text":"Blu USA"},{"start":18532.72,"end":18534.72,"text":"好這個Blu跟GREEM目前我所知道"},{"start":18534.72,"end":18536.72,"text":"經濟部公研院"},{"start":18536.72,"end":18538.72,"text":"已經取得了Blu的一個"},{"start":18538.72,"end":18540.72,"text":"GREEM的一個認證的授權"},{"start":18540.71,"end":18542.71,"text":"那未來這個Blu的軍用等級的"},{"start":18542.71,"end":18544.71,"text":"我們還在爭取當中可能是金屬中心"},{"start":18544.71,"end":18546.71,"text":"要去爭取那不管是GREEM"},{"start":18546.71,"end":18548.71,"text":"或是Blu這些所謂的"},{"start":18548.71,"end":18550.71,"text":"可信任供應鏈的分級認證制度"},{"start":18550.71,"end":18552.71,"text":"我認為這的確是需要"},{"start":18552.71,"end":18554.71,"text":"但是問題是你這些寫說"},{"start":18554.71,"end":18556.71,"text":"本條例所稱的可信任供應鏈"},{"start":18556.71,"end":18558.71,"text":"這些東西要符合"},{"start":18560.15,"end":18562.15,"text":"關於這個東西"},{"start":18562.15,"end":18564.15,"text":"如果我們Follow美國的GREEM跟Blu"},{"start":18564.15,"end":18566.15,"text":"那很抱歉啦這就不是我們主管機關"},{"start":18566.15,"end":18568.15,"text":"他所能夠去左右的"},{"start":18568.15,"end":18570.15,"text":"這個就是對方在左右的對方的規格怎麼開"},{"start":18570.15,"end":18572.15,"text":"你要怎麼跟"},{"start":18572.15,"end":18574.15,"text":"所以其實把這些看起來"},{"start":18574.15,"end":18576.15,"text":"好像是很重要"},{"start":18576.15,"end":18578.15,"text":"很關鍵的這樣條文規定下來"},{"start":18578.15,"end":18580.15,"text":"在執行上有沒有符合實況"},{"start":18580.95,"end":18582.95,"text":"所以目前台灣連Blu跟GREEM"},{"start":18582.95,"end":18584.95,"text":"都還要去跟美方取得授權"},{"start":18584.95,"end":18586.95,"text":"在我們國內去做一些共通規格的產制"},{"start":18586.95,"end":18588.95,"text":"那你在這種情況你"},{"start":18588.95,"end":18590.95,"text":"馬上寫進來到底是在"},{"start":18590.95,"end":18592.95,"text":"扶植本國的無人載具產業"},{"start":18592.95,"end":18594.95,"text":"還是在扼殺本國的無人載具產業"},{"start":18594.95,"end":18596.95,"text":"所以我是覺得這些內容"},{"start":18596.95,"end":18598.95,"text":"都是可以來討論的"},{"start":18598.95,"end":18600.95,"text":"其實我們是很希望說"},{"start":18600.95,"end":18602.95,"text":"經濟部跟國防部他們未來"},{"start":18602.95,"end":18604.95,"text":"國防部需要獲制他們可以"},{"start":18604.95,"end":18606.95,"text":"有效使用的武器"},{"start":18606.95,"end":18608.95,"text":"那經濟部要想辦法"},{"start":18608.95,"end":18610.95,"text":"要想辦法讓國內可以繼續的產制"},{"start":18610.95,"end":18612.95,"text":"不然的話以我們台灣"},{"start":18612.95,"end":18614.95,"text":"以前台灣人要說是刺蝟之島"},{"start":18614.95,"end":18616.95,"text":"為什麼我們是全世界"},{"start":18616.95,"end":18618.95,"text":"飛彈密度最高的"},{"start":18618.95,"end":18620.95,"text":"但是從烏克蘭今天我們看得到"},{"start":18620.95,"end":18622.95,"text":"你只靠攔截飛彈這麼昂貴"},{"start":18622.95,"end":18624.95,"text":"容易耗損庫存不容易補充的"},{"start":18624.95,"end":18626.95,"text":"高價值或者高性能的"},{"start":18626.95,"end":18628.95,"text":"這個軍備"},{"start":18628.95,"end":18630.95,"text":"你很難支撐對岸"},{"start":18630.95,"end":18632.95,"text":"攻擊方用大量"},{"start":18632.95,"end":18634.95,"text":"消耗式的持久攻擊"},{"start":18634.95,"end":18636.95,"text":"所以我們他要發展不對勝戰力當中"},{"start":18636.95,"end":18638.95,"text":"我們要有這些量多價廉"},{"start":18638.95,"end":18640.95,"text":"而且可以自行持續生產補充的無人載具"},{"start":18640.95,"end":18642.95,"text":"這就是我們目標"},{"start":18642.95,"end":18644.95,"text":"這是國防部為什麼一開始要開這個"},{"start":18644.95,"end":18646.95,"text":"特別預算去買這個"},{"start":18646.95,"end":18648.95,"text":"用這個長單來買這些內容"},{"start":18648.95,"end":18650.95,"text":"這就是我們目的我們要能夠生產什麼"},{"start":18650.95,"end":18652.95,"text":"不是在靠飛彈愛國者飛彈來攔截對岸的攻擊"},{"start":18652.95,"end":18654.95,"text":"我們要靠我們的這些無人艇"},{"start":18654.95,"end":18656.95,"text":"靠人的兵海型的無人機"},{"start":18656.95,"end":18658.95,"text":"去消滅"},{"start":18658.95,"end":18660.95,"text":"去Defense"},{"start":18660.95,"end":18662.95,"text":"去對抗他們派來的船隊"},{"start":18662.95,"end":18664.95,"text":"或其他的對海的跨海攻擊"},{"start":18664.95,"end":18666.95,"text":"我們需要的是這一個"},{"start":18666.95,"end":18668.95,"text":"那如果國防部這個講清楚了大家支持了"},{"start":18668.95,"end":18670.95,"text":"希望大家就支持用特別預算"},{"start":18670.95,"end":18672.95,"text":"來支持購買這三種的無人載具"},{"start":18672.95,"end":18674.95,"text":"至於後面其他的內容"},{"start":18674.95,"end":18676.95,"text":"包括說他的一個"},{"start":18676.95,"end":18678.95,"text":"可信賴供應鏈啊他的分級認證制度啊"},{"start":18678.95,"end":18680.95,"text":"目前我們的國產條例"},{"start":18680.95,"end":18682.95,"text":"有分三級"},{"start":18682.95,"end":18684.95,"text":"那我看國產的這三級可能不夠用"},{"start":18684.95,"end":18686.95,"text":"可能經濟部跟國防部還要努力的去發展其他的集數"},{"start":18686.95,"end":18688.95,"text":"不過因為民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":18688.95,"end":18690.95,"text":"他重點在於"},{"start":18690.95,"end":18692.95,"text":"不是在於我們軍備的獲得武器的獲得"},{"start":18692.95,"end":18694.95,"text":"他重點在於產業的扶植"},{"start":18694.95,"end":18696.95,"text":"所以這個的確對產業是重要的"},{"start":18696.95,"end":18698.95,"text":"但是如果放在我們今天的採購目的"},{"start":18698.95,"end":18700.95,"text":"是為了"},{"start":18700.07,"end":18702.07,"text":"健全會完備我們的軍備"},{"start":18702.07,"end":18704.07,"text":"那這個條文寫進去"},{"start":18704.07,"end":18706.07,"text":"不見得有幫助於國防部"},{"start":18706.07,"end":18708.07,"text":"可以迅速的獲得我們所需要的裝備"},{"start":18708.07,"end":18710.07,"text":"以上呢來跟我們的"},{"start":18711.38,"end":18713.38,"text":"主席來就教我們民眾黨團"},{"start":18713.38,"end":18715.38,"text":"這樣的一個條文內容"},{"start":18715.38,"end":18717.38,"text":"有沒有思考到未來真的如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"text":"也再說明一下好不好"},{"start":21651.83,"end":21653.83,"text":"好請部長"},{"start":21656.44,"end":21658.44,"text":"國防部這次表達就是說"},{"start":21660.05,"end":21662.05,"text":"我們"},{"start":21662.05,"end":21664.05,"text":"今天所列出來的"},{"start":21664.05,"end":21666.05,"text":"在第四條所列的採購項目"},{"start":21666.05,"end":21668.05,"text":"是"},{"start":21668.05,"end":21670.05,"text":"非常的明確"},{"start":21670.05,"end":21672.05,"text":"也非常明確的表示要用特別預算"},{"start":21672.05,"end":21674.05,"text":"這不表示"},{"start":21674.05,"end":21676.05,"text":"我們所需要的無人載具"},{"start":21676.05,"end":21678.05,"text":"只有這些"},{"start":21678.05,"end":21680.05,"text":"所以我們的無人載具"},{"start":21680.05,"end":21682.05,"text":"範圍會包括"},{"start":21682.05,"end":21684.05,"text":"隨著這個"},{"start":21684.05,"end":21686.05,"text":"我們的作戰需求"},{"start":21686.05,"end":21688.05,"text":"我們相關的建案"},{"start":21687.98,"end":21689.98,"text":"那個完整以後"},{"start":21689.98,"end":21691.98,"text":"我們會再有提出其他的"},{"start":21691.98,"end":21693.98,"text":"一些需求像我們現在"},{"start":21693.98,"end":21695.98,"text":"MQ9B正在"},{"start":21695.98,"end":21697.98,"text":"會再進行交裝"},{"start":21697.98,"end":21699.98,"text":"那這個MQ9B事實上"},{"start":21699.98,"end":21701.98,"text":"我們就是擺在我們的年度"},{"start":21701.98,"end":21703.98,"text":"預算裡面那我們還會"},{"start":21703.98,"end":21705.98,"text":"有一些地面的無人載具"},{"start":21705.98,"end":21707.98,"text":"甚至以之後如果"},{"start":21707.98,"end":21709.98,"text":"這個成熟我們還有"},{"start":21709.98,"end":21711.98,"text":"水下的無人載具這些"},{"start":21711.98,"end":21713.98,"text":"都會放在我們相關"},{"start":21713.98,"end":21715.98,"text":"做成建案之後會提出"},{"start":21715.98,"end":21717.98,"text":"相關的這些需求"},{"start":21717.98,"end":21719.98,"text":"所以立法上面"},{"start":21719.98,"end":21721.98,"text":"給我們的一個授權"},{"start":21721.98,"end":21723.98,"text":"一定是要明確的"},{"start":21723.98,"end":21725.98,"text":"我們現在明確的就是這三款"},{"start":21725.98,"end":21727.98,"text":"的無人載具"},{"start":21727.98,"end":21729.98,"text":"那這三款的無人載具"},{"start":21729.98,"end":21731.98,"text":"我們打算用特別預算的方式"},{"start":21731.98,"end":21733.98,"text":"那其目的"},{"start":21733.98,"end":21735.98,"text":"已經講過非常多次我就不再"},{"start":21735.98,"end":21737.98,"text":"贅述但是沒有"},{"start":21737.98,"end":21739.98,"text":"辦法能夠想像說所有的"},{"start":21739.98,"end":21741.98,"text":"無人載具在立法上"},{"start":21742.67,"end":21744.67,"text":"要求我們在行年度"},{"start":21744.67,"end":21746.67,"text":"預算的程序的時候"},{"start":21746.89,"end":21748.89,"text":"會直接明定要求我們"},{"start":21748.89,"end":21750.89,"text":"每年應該要編列"},{"start":21750.89,"end":21752.89,"text":"多少錢這件事情"},{"start":21753.76,"end":21755.76,"text":"在我來講這個是無從"},{"start":21755.76,"end":21757.76,"text":"想像的一件事情"},{"start":21757.84,"end":21759.84,"text":"那"},{"start":21758.65,"end":21760.65,"text":"他發生很多問題"},{"start":21760.65,"end":21762.65,"text":"第一個我們如果在那一年"},{"start":21762.65,"end":21764.65,"text":"沒有就這個無人載具"},{"start":21764.65,"end":21766.65,"text":"編組到400億有沒有違法"},{"start":21766.65,"end":21768.65,"text":"第二個我們超過400億"},{"start":21768.65,"end":21770.65,"text":"有沒有違法第三個立法院"},{"start":21770.65,"end":21772.65,"text":"砍掉剩下不足400億"},{"start":21772.65,"end":21774.65,"text":"有沒有違法"},{"start":21775.36,"end":21777.36,"text":"我沒有辦法回答任何一個這樣的問題"},{"start":21779.16,"end":21781.16,"text":"這樣的立法"},{"start":21781.92,"end":21783.92,"text":"我"},{"start":21783.02,"end":21785.02,"text":"我沒有辦法能夠想像是有在"},{"start":21785.02,"end":21787.02,"text":"促進無人機對我們"},{"start":21787.02,"end":21789.02,"text":"國防需求的一個"},{"start":21789.02,"end":21791.02,"text":"迫切性的一個"},{"start":21791.02,"end":21793.02,"text":"一個立法目的"},{"start":21794.85,"end":21796.85,"text":"好中交病委員有沒有辦法"},{"start":21796.85,"end":21798.85,"text":"那個鄭天才委員"},{"start":21803.99,"end":21805.99,"text":"今天是立法"},{"start":21806.87,"end":21808.87,"text":"好"},{"start":21807.68,"end":21809.68,"text":"我也再強調到現在為止"},{"start":21810.45,"end":21812.45,"text":"好"},{"start":21811.89,"end":21813.89,"text":"都還沒有說明"},{"start":21813.73,"end":21815.73,"text":"什麼叫國防自主"},{"start":21815.73,"end":21817.73,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":21819.38,"end":21821.38,"text":"從第一條到最後一條看不到國防自主了"},{"start":21823.38,"end":21825.38,"text":"只看到"},{"start":21825.44,"end":21827.44,"text":"這邊特別一算"},{"start":21828.05,"end":21830.05,"text":"這是第一個"},{"start":21829.54,"end":21831.54,"text":"第二個"},{"start":21830.87,"end":21832.87,"text":"剛才部長"},{"start":21833.13,"end":21835.13,"text":"講的"},{"start":21835.78,"end":21837.78,"text":"你說你用特別條例"},{"start":21838.75,"end":21840.75,"text":"一算二還是要送來啊"},{"start":21842.16,"end":21844.16,"text":"一算二還是要送來"},{"start":21844.78,"end":21846.78,"text":"那你說立法院"},{"start":21846.36,"end":21848.36,"text":"看"},{"start":21847.93,"end":21849.93,"text":"本來就可以看"},{"start":21850.8,"end":21852.8,"text":"那法律還明確了"},{"start":21852.8,"end":21854.8,"text":"當然大家就不會看"},{"start":21856.08,"end":21858.08,"text":"好"},{"start":21858.16,"end":21860.16,"text":"國民黨團所提的"},{"start":21861.55,"end":21863.55,"text":"啊"},{"start":21863.19,"end":21865.19,"text":"國民黨所談團提的還明確"},{"start":21867.89,"end":21869.89,"text":"一個年度多少錢"},{"start":21871.12,"end":21875.12,"text":"大家就去尊重立法院去尊重這個自己所提的法律案"},{"start":21875.12,"end":21877.12,"text":"所通過的法律案"},{"start":21877.56,"end":21879.56,"text":"也就不會有什麼看不看的問題"},{"start":21880.52,"end":21882.52,"text":"所以按照你剛才的邏輯"},{"start":21883.3,"end":21885.3,"text":"好像法律明定了還可以看"},{"start":21887.05,"end":21889.05,"text":"所以這個部分是一個矛盾的"},{"start":21890.1,"end":21892.1,"text":"那另外就是說"},{"start":21892.38,"end":21894.38,"text":"因為"},{"start":21893.49,"end":21895.49,"text":"這個是"},{"start":21895.92,"end":21897.92,"text":"產業跟國防"},{"start":21898.2,"end":21900.2,"text":"共同的"},{"start":21899.65,"end":21901.65,"text":"是共同的"},{"start":21901.85,"end":21903.85,"text":"所以不是只有你國防部的"},{"start":21905.27,"end":21907.27,"text":"是包含產業的"},{"start":21907.94,"end":21909.94,"text":"你國防部認為"},{"start":21910.71,"end":21912.71,"text":"啊"},{"start":21911.57,"end":21913.57,"text":"是白衣太多"},{"start":21913.27,"end":21915.27,"text":"每年是白衣太多"},{"start":21915.35,"end":21917.35,"text":"當然不是只有你還有產業"},{"start":21919.18,"end":21921.18,"text":"還有產業"},{"start":21922.06,"end":21924.06,"text":"是這樣的一個情形"},{"start":21924.41,"end":21926.41,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":21926.32,"end":21928.32,"text":"如果你認為"},{"start":21928.34,"end":21930.34,"text":"行政院所分配的400每年400億"},{"start":21932.59,"end":21934.59,"text":"經濟部產業界"},{"start":21935.39,"end":21937.39,"text":"中科院"},{"start":21936.96,"end":21938.96,"text":"跟國防部你認為你的不夠"},{"start":21940.09,"end":21942.09,"text":"你的年度預算也可以去編"},{"start":21942.09,"end":21944.09,"text":"對啊"},{"start":21944.14,"end":21946.14,"text":"除了這個400億之外"},{"start":21946.14,"end":21948.14,"text":"你還是一樣可以去編類"},{"start":21948.51,"end":21950.51,"text":"所以你有去"},{"start":21950.41,"end":21952.41,"text":"反對你去編類"},{"start":21953.59,"end":21955.59,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":21956.22,"end":21958.22,"text":"因為從頭到尾啊"},{"start":21958.22,"end":21960.22,"text":"我們既然是談"},{"start":21960.67,"end":21962.67,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":21962.68,"end":21964.68,"text":"無人載技"},{"start":21964.44,"end":21966.44,"text":"那就是要跟產業一起結合"},{"start":21968.01,"end":21970.01,"text":"所以必須要有"},{"start":21970.06,"end":21972.06,"text":"經濟部"},{"start":21971.68,"end":21973.68,"text":"跟產業跟國防部"},{"start":21974.33,"end":21976.33,"text":"共同的來去推動"},{"start":21976.33,"end":21978.33,"text":"以上"},{"start":21979.76,"end":21981.76,"text":"好"},{"start":21980.84,"end":21982.84,"text":"中嘉賓委員完"},{"start":21982.84,"end":21984.84,"text":"然後之後賴世保委員"},{"start":21984.8,"end":21986.8,"text":"好"},{"start":21986.88,"end":21988.88,"text":"剛剛讓不同的政黨的不同版本表示意見"},{"start":21988.88,"end":21990.88,"text":"但是我徵詢了我們民眾黨黨團"},{"start":21990.88,"end":21992.88,"text":"並沒有要表示意見"},{"start":21992.88,"end":21994.88,"text":"他說他們並沒有編列預算"},{"start":21994.88,"end":21996.88,"text":"所以這一題就不參與"},{"start":21996.88,"end":21998.88,"text":"那我想那就很清楚"},{"start":21998.88,"end":22000.88,"text":"目前呢"},{"start":22000.88,"end":22002.88,"text":"有14個版本"},{"start":22002.88,"end":22004.88,"text":"那其中呢"},{"start":22004.88,"end":22006.88,"text":"有12個版本有要動之預算"},{"start":22006.88,"end":22008.88,"text":"有兩個版本"},{"start":22008.88,"end":22010.88,"text":"並沒有要動之預算"},{"start":22010.88,"end":22012.88,"text":"就是分別是賴世保委員的V版"},{"start":22012.88,"end":22014.88,"text":"跟民眾黨的版本"},{"start":22014.88,"end":22016.88,"text":"那12個要動之預算的版本當中"},{"start":22016.88,"end":22018.88,"text":"多數"},{"start":22018.88,"end":22020.88,"text":"就是有11個版本"},{"start":22020.88,"end":22022.88,"text":"是主張使用特別預算"},{"start":22022.88,"end":22024.88,"text":"那剛剛攻聯了我們"},{"start":22024.88,"end":22026.88,"text":"政委員的一番談話"},{"start":22026.88,"end":22028.88,"text":"我想呢"},{"start":22028.88,"end":22030.88,"text":"之前我也稍微的在公聽會的時候"},{"start":22030.88,"end":22032.88,"text":"有用這個方式讓大家理解"},{"start":22032.88,"end":22034.88,"text":"一般民眾的確不能區分"},{"start":22034.88,"end":22036.88,"text":"中央政府的年度預算"},{"start":22036.88,"end":22038.88,"text":"跟特別預算"},{"start":22038.88,"end":22040.88,"text":"怎麼樣去區分"},{"start":22040.88,"end":22042.88,"text":"那我就打個比方"},{"start":22042.06,"end":22044.06,"text":"念大學的孩子"},{"start":22044.06,"end":22046.06,"text":"跟爸爸要錢"},{"start":22046.06,"end":22048.06,"text":"要買電腦"},{"start":22048.44,"end":22050.44,"text":"要4萬塊"},{"start":22050.75,"end":22052.75,"text":"那因為呢"},{"start":22052.75,"end":22054.75,"text":"爸爸每個月給孩子1萬的生活費"},{"start":22054.75,"end":22056.75,"text":"要付房租要付伙食"},{"start":22056.75,"end":22058.75,"text":"要付手機要付這些靈花"},{"start":22058.75,"end":22060.75,"text":"那每個月1萬塊"},{"start":22060.75,"end":22062.75,"text":"要再買個電腦呢"},{"start":22062.75,"end":22064.75,"text":"不另外跟爸爸請款不行"},{"start":22064.75,"end":22066.75,"text":"結果爸爸一聽電腦"},{"start":22066.75,"end":22068.75,"text":"喔對不起他說我要3萬買電腦"},{"start":22068.75,"end":22070.75,"text":"爸爸說3萬太少啦"},{"start":22070.61,"end":22072.61,"text":"現在呢晶片都漲價了"},{"start":22072.61,"end":22074.61,"text":"我給你4萬買電腦"},{"start":22074.61,"end":22076.61,"text":"但是呢請你從你每個月"},{"start":22076.61,"end":22078.61,"text":"1萬元的零用錢自己扣"},{"start":22078.34,"end":22080.34,"text":"請問如果就用我們一個月的零"},{"start":22080.34,"end":22082.34,"text":"每個月1萬塊的零用錢"},{"start":22082.34,"end":22084.34,"text":"我還要另外去請款嗎"},{"start":22084.55,"end":22086.55,"text":"現在我們的年度預算"},{"start":22086.55,"end":22088.55,"text":"就好比是固定"},{"start":22088.55,"end":22090.55,"text":"中央政府要支出的項目"},{"start":22091.45,"end":22093.45,"text":"這些項目在國安部的部分"},{"start":22093.45,"end":22095.45,"text":"都已經有律定要進行的軍備採購"},{"start":22096.92,"end":22098.92,"text":"那麼無人載具這三款"},{"start":22098.92,"end":22100.92,"text":"為什麼要另外"},{"start":22100.92,"end":22102.92,"text":"一筆完整的預算來執行"},{"start":22102.92,"end":22104.92,"text":"其實剛剛部長也講了"},{"start":22104.92,"end":22106.92,"text":"那如果說大家不健忘的話"},{"start":22106.92,"end":22108.92,"text":"我願意再幫他複習一下"},{"start":22110.89,"end":22112.89,"text":"其實以MQ9B來說"},{"start":22112.89,"end":22114.89,"text":"我們就是用年度預算採購的"},{"start":22116.65,"end":22118.65,"text":"那這個有沒有需要立法院"},{"start":22118.65,"end":22120.65,"text":"通過一個特別條例"},{"start":22120.65,"end":22122.65,"text":"才能去購買啊沒有啊"},{"start":22122.65,"end":22124.65,"text":"因為行政權他基於國防需要"},{"start":22124.65,"end":22126.65,"text":"他就可以編在年度預算去採購"},{"start":22126.65,"end":22128.65,"text":"如果立法院有不同意見"},{"start":22128.65,"end":22130.65,"text":"你大可在年度預算審查的時候"},{"start":22130.65,"end":22132.65,"text":"你去做一些"},{"start":22132.8,"end":22134.8,"text":"一些調整山或洞"},{"start":22135.92,"end":22137.92,"text":"這個都可以的"},{"start":22137.35,"end":22139.35,"text":"但是MQ9B好像"},{"start":22140.73,"end":22142.73,"text":"在野黨也並沒有認為不需要"},{"start":22142.73,"end":22144.73,"text":"所以我們很辛苦的千金萬武的"},{"start":22144.73,"end":22146.73,"text":"我們籌獲了這幾架珍貴的"},{"start":22149.23,"end":22151.23,"text":"戰略價值的資產"},{"start":22151.06,"end":22153.06,"text":"好那現在國防部很清楚講了"},{"start":22153.06,"end":22155.06,"text":"我現有的預算規模"},{"start":22155.06,"end":22157.06,"text":"我額外的還需要"},{"start":22157.06,"end":22159.06,"text":"去添購這三款的無人載具"},{"start":22159.06,"end":22161.06,"text":"那其他的無人載具"},{"start":22161.06,"end":22163.06,"text":"其他無人載具目前按照國防部的規劃"},{"start":22163.06,"end":22167.06,"text":"按照他們既有的年度預算的額度"},{"start":22167.06,"end":22169.06,"text":"他們可以來進行"},{"start":22169.06,"end":22171.06,"text":"能夠來進行支配"},{"start":22172.2,"end":22174.2,"text":"但是為什麼這三款"},{"start":22174.2,"end":22181.2,"text":"需要一個2100億到2031年之前去執行完畢呢"},{"start":22181.87,"end":22183.87,"text":"過去也講了很多了"},{"start":22183.86,"end":22187.86,"text":"這三款就是台海防衛需要的大量裝備"},{"start":22187.86,"end":22191.86,"text":"而且是屬於很多是屬於消耗型的裝備"},{"start":22191.86,"end":22193.86,"text":"而且這個消耗我們要有能力"},{"start":22193.86,"end":22195.86,"text":"自行產製補充"},{"start":22196.69,"end":22198.69,"text":"不是像愛國者飛彈"},{"start":22198.69,"end":22200.69,"text":"愛國者飛彈打完了"},{"start":22200.05,"end":22202.05,"text":"就要再跟美國調"},{"start":22202.07,"end":22204.07,"text":"但是如果這三款"},{"start":22204.3,"end":22206.3,"text":"在未來的需要"},{"start":22206.3,"end":22208.3,"text":"不管是演訓用掉"},{"start":22208.3,"end":22210.3,"text":"還是真正的狀況發生用掉"},{"start":22210.3,"end":22212.3,"text":"我們還有源源不斷的後勤能力"},{"start":22212.3,"end":22214.3,"text":"來自主生產供應"},{"start":22214.81,"end":22217.81,"text":"所以上午一直有委員關心這三款"},{"start":22217.81,"end":22219.81,"text":"到底我們本國有沒有產製能力"},{"start":22219.81,"end":22221.81,"text":"我也可以很負責任的說"},{"start":22221.81,"end":22223.81,"text":"就跟東科院的院長一樣"},{"start":22224.5,"end":22226.5,"text":"我們是有能力生產的"},{"start":22226.24,"end":22229.24,"text":"但是我們有沒有廠商現在要投產"},{"start":22229.83,"end":22231.83,"text":"抱歉"},{"start":22230.94,"end":22234.94,"text":"沒有整架整機要投產的這樣的一個完整的規劃"},{"start":22235.97,"end":22237.97,"text":"因為投資產生產"},{"start":22237.97,"end":22239.97,"text":"它要幾個情況"},{"start":22239.97,"end":22241.97,"text":"第一"},{"start":22241.59,"end":22243.59,"text":"它的規模要夠大"},{"start":22243.59,"end":22245.59,"text":"我才值得我去設置產線"},{"start":22245.59,"end":22247.59,"text":"我們很多人有能力做"},{"start":22247.59,"end":22249.59,"text":"但是因為規模不大"},{"start":22249.59,"end":22251.59,"text":"我不會再去設置產線"},{"start":22251.59,"end":22253.59,"text":"如果不設置產線"},{"start":22253.59,"end":22255.59,"text":"我要跟別人share"},{"start":22254.11,"end":22256.11,"text":"像光電球"},{"start":22256.11,"end":22258.11,"text":"我們去跟東歐買"},{"start":22258.11,"end":22260.11,"text":"可以啊人家不賣你啊"},{"start":22260.11,"end":22262.11,"text":"人家現在大部分都供應給烏克蘭啊"},{"start":22262.11,"end":22264.11,"text":"他幹嘛要分他的供"},{"start":22262.09,"end":22264.09,"text":"我再講一個很具體的"},{"start":22264.09,"end":22266.09,"text":"現在烏克蘭使用的長程製造無人機"},{"start":22266.09,"end":22268.09,"text":"他用的噴射引擎"},{"start":22268.09,"end":22270.09,"text":"是小型渦輪噴射引擎"},{"start":22272.78,"end":22274.78,"text":"結果目前世界上"},{"start":22274.78,"end":22276.78,"text":"過去有在生產的"},{"start":22276.78,"end":22278.78,"text":"因為小型渦輪噴射引擎的市場很小"},{"start":22278.78,"end":22280.78,"text":"航模的玩家在用"},{"start":22280.17,"end":22282.17,"text":"就偏偏有台灣有一家工廠在生產"},{"start":22282.17,"end":22284.17,"text":"而且還做的不錯"},{"start":22284.17,"end":22286.17,"text":"CP值很高"},{"start":22285.67,"end":22287.67,"text":"所以後來烏克蘭透過其他國家"},{"start":22287.67,"end":22289.67,"text":"來跟台灣進口"},{"start":22290.56,"end":22292.56,"text":"可以說目前"},{"start":22292.56,"end":22294.56,"text":"這個世界原來做航模的"},{"start":22294.56,"end":22296.56,"text":"小型渦輪噴射引擎的廠商"},{"start":22296.56,"end":22298.56,"text":"他現在全年的產量"},{"start":22298.56,"end":22300.56,"text":"都全部給烏克蘭的需求"},{"start":22300.56,"end":22302.56,"text":"給吃掉了"}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目前賴世保委員"},{"start":22517.14,"end":22519.14,"text":"謝謝 我剛才以為說中央病委"},{"start":22519.14,"end":22521.14,"text":"會最後說支持賴世保的"},{"start":22521.14,"end":22523.14,"text":"國保院"},{"start":22523.14,"end":22525.14,"text":"行政院2100億"},{"start":22525.14,"end":22527.14,"text":"賴世保就500億"},{"start":22527.14,"end":22529.14,"text":"但是賴世保的500億"},{"start":22529.78,"end":22531.78,"text":"唯一的"},{"start":22531.23,"end":22533.23,"text":"技術分析 技術轉移的"},{"start":22533.23,"end":22535.23,"text":"特別要強調"},{"start":22535.23,"end":22537.23,"text":"第二個"},{"start":22536.51,"end":22538.51,"text":"第二個 政府採購 沒錯"},{"start":22538.51,"end":22540.51,"text":"政府採購技術移轉"},{"start":22540.51,"end":22542.51,"text":"這兩個要加起來"},{"start":22542.59,"end":22544.59,"text":"第二個要強調的"},{"start":22544.48,"end":22546.48,"text":"其實第五條是重中之重"},{"start":22546.48,"end":22548.48,"text":"最重要是第五條"},{"start":22548.97,"end":22550.97,"text":"行政院保持2100億"},{"start":22551.35,"end":22553.35,"text":"變成秘書"},{"start":22553,"end":22555,"text":"在野黨 國民黨團"},{"start":22555,"end":22557,"text":"就2400億"},{"start":22556.65,"end":22558.65,"text":"然後民眾黨是沒有上線"},{"start":22560.41,"end":22562.41,"text":"你們說這個 你們連理由都不是理由啦"},{"start":22562.41,"end":22564.41,"text":"你可以想"},{"start":22564.41,"end":22566.41,"text":"行政院 經濟部啊"},{"start":22567.31,"end":22569.31,"text":"剛通過一個不是嗎"},{"start":22569.31,"end":22571.31,"text":"無人載具產業發展統籌性計畫"},{"start":22571.31,"end":22573.31,"text":"442億"},{"start":22575.02,"end":22577.02,"text":"他就根據一個計畫"},{"start":22577.42,"end":22579.42,"text":"來啦"},{"start":22579.42,"end":22581.42,"text":"他就根據一個計畫"},{"start":22581.42,"end":22583.42,"text":"他是有計畫的啊"},{"start":22583.65,"end":22585.65,"text":"剛才早上 我們在休息之前不是早上了"},{"start":22587.43,"end":22589.43,"text":"我不想說"},{"start":22589.03,"end":22591.03,"text":"他就要那三個 一個 間 什麼 間"},{"start":22592.07,"end":22594.07,"text":"檢查或者監測的無人機"},{"start":22595.48,"end":22597.48,"text":"檢查"},{"start":22596.54,"end":22598.54,"text":"無人機 無人艇 三大箱"},{"start":22599.31,"end":22601.31,"text":"這個啊 在國民黨的"},{"start":22601.57,"end":22603.57,"text":"國民黨團的版本 民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":22603.57,"end":22605.57,"text":"通通支持你啊"},{"start":22605.57,"end":22607.57,"text":"現在問題就在於"},{"start":22607.57,"end":22609.57,"text":"特別預算還是一般預算"},{"start":22610.78,"end":22612.78,"text":"這個你現在講說 啊啊啊啊啊"},{"start":22612.78,"end":22614.78,"text":"那怎麼辦 我要買愛國者"},{"start":22614.78,"end":22616.78,"text":"愛國者去買啊"},{"start":22615.94,"end":22617.94,"text":"美國去買 我們可以有錢 都有錢買啊"},{"start":22617.94,"end":22619.94,"text":"因為"},{"start":22619.94,"end":22621.94,"text":"賴總統說"},{"start":22622.17,"end":22624.17,"text":"到2030年"},{"start":22624.72,"end":22626.72,"text":"國民會算戰GDP"},{"start":22626.72,"end":22628.72,"text":"要5%"},{"start":22627.84,"end":22629.84,"text":"所以 這裡面來講"},{"start":22629.84,"end":22631.84,"text":"就大概 空間啦"},{"start":22631.84,"end":22633.84,"text":"這幾年從2027到2030"},{"start":22633.84,"end":22635.84,"text":"大概就有"},{"start":22635.84,"end":22637.84,"text":"五六千億了"},{"start":22637.93,"end":22639.93,"text":"五六千億的空間呢"},{"start":22639.93,"end":22641.93,"text":"一千五百億左右 甚至可以高達兩千億"},{"start":22641.93,"end":22643.93,"text":"就看你是在什麼時候編啦"},{"start":22643.93,"end":22645.93,"text":"所以這個錢"},{"start":22645.93,"end":22647.93,"text":"根本不是問題"},{"start":22647.93,"end":22649.93,"text":"因為他要足點增加 否則賴總統的"},{"start":22650.72,"end":22652.72,"text":"只要 只要票 就 票票喔"},{"start":22653.14,"end":22655.14,"text":"他說要打GDP給5%"},{"start":22655.77,"end":22657.77,"text":"他要打GDP"},{"start":22657.77,"end":22659.77,"text":"拜託你講 我都不跟你吵 你們"},{"start":22659.77,"end":22661.77,"text":"我說你吵我的"},{"start":22661.59,"end":22663.59,"text":"這個賴總統說5%"},{"start":22663.59,"end":22665.59,"text":"那5%怎麼來呢 告訴我們呢"},{"start":22665.59,"end":22667.59,"text":"國務院說就是要每年增加啊"},{"start":22667.59,"end":22669.59,"text":"每年增加一兩千億"},{"start":22669.59,"end":22671.59,"text":"他要增加啊"},{"start":22671.59,"end":22673.59,"text":"增加來跟你買愛國者"},{"start":22673.59,"end":22675.59,"text":"怎麼沒錢 當然有錢啊"},{"start":22675.59,"end":22677.59,"text":"所以 所以"},{"start":22677.66,"end":22679.66,"text":"啊 媽"},{"start":22678.89,"end":22680.89,"text":"所有的 因為這個案子"},{"start":22680.89,"end":22682.89,"text":"其實我的案子"},{"start":22682.89,"end":22684.89,"text":"跟你們是有基同要講的"},{"start":22684.89,"end":22686.89,"text":"但不管怎麼樣 也是有點關係"},{"start":22686.89,"end":22688.89,"text":"也不是"},{"start":22688.89,"end":22690.89,"text":"完全沒有關係"},{"start":22690.92,"end":22692.92,"text":"就是你的兩千一百億"},{"start":22692.92,"end":22694.92,"text":"你真的要買這三大項"},{"start":22694.92,"end":22696.92,"text":"那就放年度預算"},{"start":22696.92,"end":22698.92,"text":"啊你今天說你還要不買帳"},{"start":22698.92,"end":22700.92,"text":"不買帳就"},{"start":22700.92,"end":22702.92,"text":"老實講"},{"start":22702.83,"end":22704.83,"text":"要是可以處理 不是不能處理啦"},{"start":22704.83,"end":22706.83,"text":"你這些個"},{"start":22706.68,"end":22708.68,"text":"大家有共識主決議"},{"start":22708.68,"end":22710.68,"text":"啊 為了什麼什麼什麼原因"},{"start":22710.68,"end":22712.68,"text":"我們就 來 我們就"},{"start":22712.68,"end":22714.68,"text":"敬請"},{"start":22714.09,"end":22716.09,"text":"這個有共度"},{"start":22715.91,"end":22717.91,"text":"什麼什麼 兩千四百億"},{"start":22717.91,"end":22719.91,"text":"或者多少"},{"start":22719.37,"end":22721.37,"text":"自己寫上去"},{"start":22721.37,"end":22723.37,"text":"三黨統統這個公示表決通過"},{"start":22723.37,"end":22725.37,"text":"就這樣說"},{"start":22725.37,"end":22727.37,"text":"為什麼一定要年度預算"},{"start":22727.37,"end":22729.37,"text":"我告訴你 理由一"},{"start":22729.01,"end":22731.01,"text":"因為國王預算是主要增加的"},{"start":22733.51,"end":22735.51,"text":"啊"},{"start":22734.83,"end":22736.83,"text":"特別預算不應該常態化"},{"start":22737.98,"end":22739.98,"text":"特別預算 你可以想啊"},{"start":22739.98,"end":22741.98,"text":"包括前一陣子的任性"},{"start":22741.98,"end":22743.98,"text":"什麼的 動不動就特別預算"},{"start":22743.98,"end":22745.98,"text":"而且任何的特別預算"},{"start":22745.98,"end":22747.98,"text":"幾乎國王部都有 剛才講"},{"start":22747.98,"end":22749.98,"text":"前一陣子的任性 拿了一千一百億啊"},{"start":22750.03,"end":22752.03,"text":"任何時候 國王部就要請啦"},{"start":22752.03,"end":22754.03,"text":"所以 我是覺得"},{"start":22754.03,"end":22756.03,"text":"特別預算不要給他"},{"start":22756.03,"end":22758.03,"text":"常態化 這是第二點"},{"start":22758.03,"end":22760.03,"text":"我要強調的"},{"start":22760.03,"end":22762.03,"text":"那麼 最後一點就是"},{"start":22761.83,"end":22763.83,"text":"其實 第五條就是"},{"start":22763.83,"end":22765.83,"text":"重中之重的"},{"start":22765.83,"end":22767.83,"text":"我們會"},{"start":22767.3,"end":22769.3,"text":"我的版本就是"},{"start":22769.3,"end":22771.3,"text":"可以給我技術輿準的"},{"start":22771.3,"end":22773.3,"text":"不管跟美國 或者不是美國"},{"start":22773.3,"end":22775.3,"text":"跟哪一個國家無人機搶我"},{"start":22775.3,"end":22777.3,"text":"我跟他買 他要能給我技術輿準給我"},{"start":22777.74,"end":22779.74,"text":"我是OmeF for this one"},{"start":22779.74,"end":22781.74,"text":"只有針對這個而已"},{"start":22781.91,"end":22783.91,"text":"另外一部分 你要買"},{"start":22783.91,"end":22785.91,"text":"兩種的無人機"},{"start":22785.91,"end":22787.91,"text":"跟一個無人艇 我們通通支持"},{"start":22787.91,"end":22789.91,"text":"通通支持 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現在只有再一個"},{"start":22826.98,"end":22828.98,"text":"你要放特別預算"},{"start":22828.98,"end":22830.98,"text":"我們其實有不可"},{"start":22830.98,"end":22832.98,"text":"我們希望放一般預算"},{"start":22834.51,"end":22836.51,"text":"主席 我的預算 我已經講了"},{"start":22836.51,"end":22838.51,"text":"N次了 別再再鬧了"},{"start":22838.51,"end":22840.51,"text":"我的預算就是要採購"},{"start":22840.51,"end":22842.51,"text":"採購來技術升級"},{"start":22842.51,"end":22844.51,"text":"你的第六條是特別"},{"start":22844.51,"end":22846.51,"text":"500億 500億"},{"start":22846.51,"end":22848.51,"text":"是特別預算 對對對 我知道"},{"start":22848.51,"end":22850.51,"text":"我已經強調N變了 買來"},{"start":22850.51,"end":22852.51,"text":"要技術預算 你們同意我都同意"},{"start":22852.51,"end":22854.51,"text":"所以你是用特別預算買來"},{"start":22854.51,"end":22856.51,"text":"買來技術預轉 對對對"},{"start":22856.51,"end":22858.51,"text":"技術升級 買來技術預轉就可以用特別預算"},{"start":22858.51,"end":22860.51,"text":"對 對 對 買來國防"},{"start":22860.51,"end":22862.51,"text":"保衛台灣就不能用特別預算"},{"start":22862.51,"end":22864.51,"text":"國安部一定有情感 去擋你的情感"},{"start":22865.9,"end":22867.9,"text":"你的邏輯不通嘛"},{"start":22867.9,"end":22869.9,"text":"你的條文就不是這樣寫"},{"start":22869.9,"end":22871.9,"text":"你的條文不是寫說買來做技術預轉喔"},{"start":22871.9,"end":22873.9,"text":"你是買來"},{"start":22873.9,"end":22875.9,"text":"還不受預算法限制喔"},{"start":22875.9,"end":22877.9,"text":"請你看清楚"},{"start":22877.9,"end":22879.9,"text":"你的條文根本就不是這樣寫吧"},{"start":22879.9,"end":22881.9,"text":"不是啦 你講這個你一定要扯我的"},{"start":22881.9,"end":22883.9,"text":"請你看一下"},{"start":22883.9,"end":22885.9,"text":"第四頁"},{"start":22885.9,"end":22887.9,"text":"我的前項採購"},{"start":22887.9,"end":22889.9,"text":"應付加技術"},{"start":22889.9,"end":22891.9,"text":"預轉及工業合作條件"},{"start":22891.9,"end":22893.9,"text":"請看清楚我的第四頁"},{"start":22894.92,"end":22896.92,"text":"你的條文就不是採購"},{"start":22896.92,"end":22898.92,"text":"好 請看一下這個"},{"start":22898.92,"end":22900.92,"text":"羅叔兵尾"},{"start":22901.15,"end":22903.15,"text":"好 謝謝主席喔"},{"start":22903.15,"end":22905.15,"text":"剛才中嘉賓委員"},{"start":22905.15,"end":22907.15,"text":"所提到的MQ9B的"},{"start":22907.15,"end":22909.15,"text":"無人機在"},{"start":22909.15,"end":22911.15,"text":"有的廠商 台灣的廠商他自己"},{"start":22911.15,"end":22913.15,"text":"我沒有這樣講啦 我說無人載"},{"start":22913.15,"end":22915.15,"text":"去台灣能生產 我沒有說MQ9B"},{"start":22915.15,"end":22917.15,"text":"台灣能生產 這差很多耶"},{"start":22917.15,"end":22919.15,"text":"但是你看說這有一個"},{"start":22919.15,"end":22921.15,"text":"而且它是烏克蘭的長程噴射轟炸機"},{"start":22921.87,"end":22923.87,"text":"然後這個長程噴射轟炸機"},{"start":22923.87,"end":22925.87,"text":"是有個機械是用到我們台灣的"},{"start":22925.87,"end":22927.87,"text":"對不對"},{"start":22928.35,"end":22930.35,"text":"對 小心 渦輪噴射引擎"},{"start":22930.35,"end":22932.35,"text":"那是用到 沒關係很好"},{"start":22932.35,"end":22934.35,"text":"謝謝 那它是用到"},{"start":22934.35,"end":22936.35,"text":"我們台灣廠商的技術對不對"},{"start":22937.14,"end":22938.14,"text":"大漢"},{"start":22939.25,"end":22940.25,"text":"對啊 那非常好啊"},{"start":22940.25,"end":22942.25,"text":"我就要呼應這一點"},{"start":22942.25,"end":22944.25,"text":"因為這個廠商他並"},{"start":22944.25,"end":22946.25,"text":"你看特別講到他並不是"},{"start":22946.25,"end":22948.25,"text":"因為有政府的"},{"start":22948.25,"end":22949.25,"text":"或是說政府的資助"},{"start":22949.25,"end":22951.25,"text":"是他自己本身自主在研發出來的"},{"start":22951.25,"end":22953.25,"text":"就讓有他的市場性"},{"start":22953.25,"end":22955.25,"text":"就是有這樣的市場性"},{"start":22955.25,"end":22957.25,"text":"所以人家看到的需求"},{"start":22957.25,"end":22959.25,"text":"而且這個我剛才看到說這個需求在於是長程的部分"},{"start":22959.25,"end":22961.25,"text":"對不對 那這個長程的部分"},{"start":22961.25,"end":22963.25,"text":"就在於說"},{"start":22962.27,"end":22964.27,"text":"對 那現在的問題是我們如果用到"},{"start":22964.27,"end":22968.27,"text":"假定是他自己是看他是全世界市場的需求"},{"start":22968.27,"end":22970.27,"text":"那台灣如果是生產這個部分"},{"start":22970.27,"end":22972.27,"text":"他根本就沒有一個"},{"start":22972.27,"end":22974.27,"text":"沒有一千到兩千公里他打到大陸去嗎"},{"start":22974.27,"end":22976.27,"text":"所以這個地方所呈現出來"},{"start":22976.27,"end":22978.27,"text":"不"},{"start":22978.27,"end":22980.27,"text":"你這個問的就是"},{"start":22980.27,"end":22982.27,"text":"莫斯科就是忽然就打到莫斯科"},{"start":22982.27,"end":22984.27,"text":"我跟你們講 我說的一樣先講是說"},{"start":22984.27,"end":22986.27,"text":"市場的出 我們重點是在"},{"start":22986.27,"end":22988.27,"text":"我們是國防自主"},{"start":22988.27,"end":22990.27,"text":"然後還有所謂出口的這樣的一個需求"},{"start":22990.27,"end":22992.27,"text":"那但是現在我們最終是要用這種"},{"start":22994.33,"end":22996.33,"text":"能夠遏阻中共來侵犯我們"},{"start":22996.33,"end":22998.33,"text":"而不是說你還在打回去"},{"start":22998.33,"end":23000.33,"text":"打回去也許是可能可能"},{"start":23000.33,"end":23002.33,"text":"這個是現在我們就才不阻嘛"},{"start":23002.33,"end":23004.33,"text":"這一定是先自己能夠防衛到他們才可能打回去"},{"start":23004.33,"end":23006.33,"text":"重點我要說的是因為"},{"start":23006.33,"end":23008.33,"text":"我們的廠商就有這種能力"},{"start":23008.33,"end":23010.33,"text":"他的出口需求是全世界的"},{"start":23010.33,"end":23012.33,"text":"而且沒有經過國"},{"start":23012.33,"end":23014.33,"text":"我們政府的這個支出他就有這樣的能力"},{"start":23014.33,"end":23016.33,"text":"這才是我們要說的"},{"start":23015.58,"end":23017.58,"text":"自主的國防自主的產業的"},{"start":23017.58,"end":23019.58,"text":"最重要的達到目的"},{"start":23019.58,"end":23021.58,"text":"因此博音大本黨的"},{"start":23021.58,"end":23023.58,"text":"已經看到這個狀況了所以我們的需求"},{"start":23023.58,"end":23025.58,"text":"我們的提供出來就是用"},{"start":23025.58,"end":23027.58,"text":"本身的自己的能力"},{"start":23027.58,"end":23029.58,"text":"可以達到就可以就是你要有市場"},{"start":23029.58,"end":23031.58,"text":"驅動力啊而不是要用預算"},{"start":23031.58,"end":23033.58,"text":"去做這個部分"},{"start":23033.58,"end":23035.58,"text":"而不是用國家政府去預算去做這裡"},{"start":23035.58,"end":23037.58,"text":"那我們剛才但是保委員"},{"start":23037.58,"end":23039.58,"text":"我們本黨的利益是在於說"},{"start":23039.58,"end":23041.58,"text":"GDP本身就是已經要我們跟"},{"start":23041.58,"end":23043.58,"text":"呼應到說各國的"},{"start":23043.58,"end":23045.58,"text":"各國對或是美國對我們需求是"},{"start":23045.58,"end":23047.58,"text":"美國的要求是說我們GDP要逐漸"},{"start":23047.58,"end":23049.58,"text":"從3%變成到5%對不對"},{"start":23050.22,"end":23052.22,"text":"這部分有這個必要的話當然要"},{"start":23052.22,"end":23054.22,"text":"實施的有必要的當下去的"},{"start":23054.22,"end":23056.22,"text":"但是現在重點是3%都還沒有到嘛"},{"start":23056.22,"end":23058.22,"text":"對不對"},{"start":23057.97,"end":23059.97,"text":"對不對那3%這個情況重點是"},{"start":23059.97,"end":23061.97,"text":"而且預算不要特別預算常態化"},{"start":23061.97,"end":23063.97,"text":"這是我們最重要的"},{"start":23063.97,"end":23065.97,"text":"立法委員最重要的維持我財政"},{"start":23065.97,"end":23067.97,"text":"紀律的重點因此在這邊"},{"start":23067.97,"end":23069.97,"text":"看起來尤其是我們最近的"},{"start":23069.97,"end":23071.97,"text":"因為AI的發展我們的稅收"},{"start":23071.97,"end":23073.97,"text":"在增加嘛這今年至少要增加一兆"},{"start":23074.59,"end":23076.59,"text":"這種"},{"start":23075.86,"end":23077.86,"text":"預期到現在的財政收支這個情況"},{"start":23077.86,"end":23079.86,"text":"的確是可以啊"},{"start":23079.86,"end":23081.86,"text":"不像說我們國際間對我們需求我們絕對是有必要"},{"start":23081.86,"end":23083.86,"text":"會有這個會在國防預算"},{"start":23083.86,"end":23085.86,"text":"有這樣大幅的增加的"},{"start":23085.86,"end":23087.86,"text":"這就是我們本黨用這樣的方式"},{"start":23087.86,"end":23089.86,"text":"用所謂的預算用不提"},{"start":23089.86,"end":23091.86,"text":"特別預算而是用"},{"start":23091.86,"end":23093.86,"text":"一般的年度預算的最重要的目的"},{"start":23096.87,"end":23098.87,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":23099.89,"end":23101.89,"text":"好"},{"start":23107.25,"end":23109.25,"text":"你講太多了"},{"start":23109.25,"end":23111.25,"text":"法院"},{"start":23111.25,"end":23113.25,"text":"好了好了"},{"start":23113.25,"end":23115.25,"text":"你說"},{"start":23116.85,"end":23118.85,"text":"來"},{"start":23118.34,"end":23120.34,"text":"這就說明了"},{"start":23120.19,"end":23122.19,"text":"剛剛賴委員"},{"start":23122.57,"end":23124.57,"text":"在講我們的條"},{"start":23124.57,"end":23126.57,"text":"輪對照表第十頁"},{"start":23126.57,"end":23128.57,"text":"的確目前審到的是"},{"start":23128.57,"end":23130.57,"text":"行政院版第五條"},{"start":23130.57,"end":23132.57,"text":"對應到的是賴氏寶"},{"start":23132.57,"end":23134.57,"text":"版A版的第六條"},{"start":23134.57,"end":23136.57,"text":"那麼國民黨版呢"},{"start":23136.57,"end":23138.57,"text":"他是放在第十五條"},{"start":23138.57,"end":23140.57,"text":"這第十五條呢因為他寫是年度預算"},{"start":23140.57,"end":23142.57,"text":"這就根本不用去討論了"},{"start":23142.57,"end":23144.57,"text":"因為十四個版本扣掉沒有"},{"start":23144.57,"end":23146.57,"text":"編預算的兩個版本包括劉淑冰"},{"start":23146.57,"end":23148.57,"text":"委員講的民眾版本之外"},{"start":23148.57,"end":23150.57,"text":"另外十二個有編制預算的"},{"start":23150.57,"end":23152.57,"text":"第一個都是主張用特別預算"},{"start":23152.57,"end":23154.57,"text":"包括賴氏寶委員的A版"},{"start":23154.57,"end":23156.57,"text":"那所以我們就不討論不用討論"},{"start":23156.57,"end":23158.57,"text":"國民黨的年度預算那個根本"},{"start":23158.57,"end":23160.57,"text":"沒有必要因為如果要用年度"},{"start":23160.57,"end":23162.57,"text":"預算其實現在國防部"},{"start":23162.57,"end":23164.57,"text":"實際上在執行的就是用"},{"start":23164.57,"end":23166.57,"text":"年度預算執行的也是只是"},{"start":23166.57,"end":23168.57,"text":"講項目送來"},{"start":23168.57,"end":23170.57,"text":"由立法院進行預算審查"},{"start":23170.57,"end":23172.57,"text":"並沒有需要用一個條例來"},{"start":23172.57,"end":23174.57,"text":"交給我們審查其實就算是"},{"start":23174.57,"end":23176.57,"text":"特別條例給予特別預算一定"},{"start":23176.57,"end":23178.57,"text":"金額不管是兩千一百"},{"start":23178.57,"end":23180.57,"text":"二千四百億"},{"start":23180.57,"end":23182.57,"text":"最後根據條例的內容"},{"start":23182.57,"end":23184.57,"text":"送來的預算書"},{"start":23184.57,"end":23186.57,"text":"還是要經過立法院的審查"},{"start":23186.57,"end":23188.57,"text":"所以我們政委員"},{"start":23188.57,"end":23190.57,"text":"也是資深委員了特別條例"},{"start":23190.57,"end":23192.57,"text":"通過後訂的是預算上限"},{"start":23192.57,"end":23194.57,"text":"行政院要籌編預算"},{"start":23194.57,"end":23196.57,"text":"將預算案送到本院"},{"start":23196.57,"end":23198.57,"text":"才能進行審議本院"},{"start":23198.57,"end":23200.57,"text":"當然可以審議可以增三"},{"start":23200.57,"end":23202.57,"text":"可以三可以動"},{"start":23202.37,"end":23204.37,"text":"但是呢就是不一定說"},{"start":23204.37,"end":23206.37,"text":"一定要照原數通過"},{"start":23206.37,"end":23208.37,"text":"我想這很清楚不要這邊"},{"start":23208.37,"end":23210.37,"text":"魚目混珠"},{"start":23210.37,"end":23212.37,"text":"那麼至於賴委員A板的第六條"},{"start":23212.37,"end":23214.37,"text":"為什麼要說他說他不只是"},{"start":23214.37,"end":23216.37,"text":"金額變少他的限制"},{"start":23216.37,"end":23218.37,"text":"他的限制"},{"start":23218.37,"end":23220.37,"text":"要看哪裡他要看他除了"},{"start":23220.37,"end":23222.37,"text":"第二項他說前項"},{"start":23222.37,"end":23224.37,"text":"經費應一第五條第四項"},{"start":23224.37,"end":23226.37,"text":"提撥不低於百分之十"},{"start":23226.37,"end":23228.37,"text":"專攻技術轉"},{"start":23228.37,"end":23230.37,"text":"移轉接收"},{"start":23230.4,"end":23232.4,"text":"及產業化及"},{"start":23232.4,"end":23234.4,"text":"維修能量建立之用"},{"start":23235.68,"end":23237.68,"text":"給的錢已經夠少了"},{"start":23237.95,"end":23239.95,"text":"國防部行政院說要兩千一百億"},{"start":23239.95,"end":23241.95,"text":"他說我給你五百億就好"},{"start":23241.95,"end":23243.95,"text":"爸爸我要買個電腦要三萬"},{"start":23243.95,"end":23245.95,"text":"不用啦一萬塊就好了啦"},{"start":23245.95,"end":23247.95,"text":"而且還要加什麼限制"},{"start":23247.95,"end":23249.95,"text":"還要加說你不要買整機的喔"},{"start":23249.95,"end":23251.95,"text":"你要自己買零件來組裝喔"},{"start":23251.95,"end":23253.95,"text":"我們來看一看我們的條文對照表第56頁"},{"start":23254.77,"end":23258.77,"text":"我們來看看賴世保委員A板的第五條他怎麼寫"},{"start":23258.77,"end":23260.77,"text":"他一共四項"},{"start":23260.85,"end":23262.85,"text":"他第一項喔"},{"start":23263.56,"end":23265.56,"text":"他說他對於本條例的採購"},{"start":23265.56,"end":23269.56,"text":"在五百億上線五百億的採購當中呢"},{"start":23269.56,"end":23271.56,"text":"他所訂定的技術移轉及"},{"start":23271.56,"end":23273.56,"text":"跟業合作條款他的"},{"start":23273.56,"end":23275.56,"text":"工業合作價值不得低於各採購"},{"start":23275.56,"end":23277.56,"text":"契約金額的百分之四十"},{"start":23278.21,"end":23280.21,"text":"這不是要讓國防部放手去採購啊"},{"start":23280.21,"end":23282.21,"text":"這是給國防部穿小鞋啊"},{"start":23282.21,"end":23284.21,"text":"你如果要確認你每一項採購"},{"start":23284.21,"end":23286.21,"text":"都能達到這個採購金額的百分之四十"},{"start":23286.21,"end":23288.21,"text":"你看看他的第二項"},{"start":23288.21,"end":23290.21,"text":"他這裡面寫的說"},{"start":23290.21,"end":23292.21,"text":"前項技術移轉及工業合作要建立"},{"start":23292.21,"end":23294.21,"text":"下列能量為目標"},{"start":23294.21,"end":23296.21,"text":"我們看到有三款"},{"start":23296.21,"end":23298.21,"text":"這裡面的第三款呢寫的供應鏈非紅化"},{"start":23298.21,"end":23300.21,"text":"很好啊"},{"start":23300.27,"end":23302.27,"text":"連奈斯堡A本都要寫非紅供應鏈啊"},{"start":23302.27,"end":23304.27,"text":"這個民眾黨的黨團還不敢"},{"start":23305.6,"end":23307.6,"text":"明明白白的承認"},{"start":23307.6,"end":23309.6,"text":"還要拐彎抹角說"},{"start":23309.6,"end":23311.6,"text":"要怎樣怎樣要有什麼安全認證"},{"start":23311.6,"end":23313.6,"text":"就是非紅供應鏈"},{"start":23313.6,"end":23315.6,"text":"非紅供應鏈奈斯堡A本都寫了"},{"start":23315.6,"end":23317.6,"text":"這個我們都覺得很好啊"},{"start":23317.6,"end":23319.6,"text":"排除含有惡意的"},{"start":23319.6,"end":23321.6,"text":"後門或惡意的模擬啊"},{"start":23321.6,"end":23323.6,"text":"但是呢他的第一款跟第二款"},{"start":23323.6,"end":23325.6,"text":"他說什麼這些關鍵的"},{"start":23325.6,"end":23327.6,"text":"次系統的產製及自主"},{"start":23327.6,"end":23329.6,"text":"維修包括光電雷達感測"},{"start":23329.6,"end":23331.6,"text":"衛星與自動鏈"},{"start":23331.6,"end":23333.6,"text":"飛行控制飛控自主導航"},{"start":23333.6,"end":23335.6,"text":"對目標研判"},{"start":23335.6,"end":23337.6,"text":"抗干擾抗衛星定位"},{"start":23337.6,"end":23339.6,"text":"欺騙模組很好啊"},{"start":23339.6,"end":23341.6,"text":"把現在無人載具所需要的這些基本功夫"},{"start":23341.6,"end":23343.6,"text":"都放進去了啊老實說不放"},{"start":23343.6,"end":23345.6,"text":"我想國防部也不會去買"},{"start":23345.6,"end":23347.6,"text":"不具備這些內容的"},{"start":23346.5,"end":23348.5,"text":"無人載具啊問題是"},{"start":23348.5,"end":23350.5,"text":"這些是不是在短時間內"},{"start":23350.5,"end":23352.5,"text":"台灣都具備有這三款"},{"start":23352.5,"end":23354.5,"text":"的自主能力"},{"start":23354.5,"end":23356.5,"text":"我們講到國防自主"},{"start":23356.5,"end":23358.5,"text":"生產不意味著"},{"start":23358.5,"end":23360.5,"text":"全部的技術都是由我們"},{"start":23360.5,"end":23362.5,"text":"自行開發這個連美國都做不到"},{"start":23363.28,"end":23365.28,"text":"他要去跟人家買專利買授權"},{"start":23365.71,"end":23367.71,"text":"甚至有些零件"},{"start":23367.71,"end":23369.71,"text":"要能夠對方供應"},{"start":23369.71,"end":23371.71,"text":"但是只要是飛虹供應鏈"},{"start":23370.92,"end":23372.92,"text":"我們有辦法獲得"},{"start":23372.92,"end":23374.92,"text":"那就不妨礙我們自主生產"},{"start":23374.92,"end":23376.92,"text":"這樣的目的所以這裡寫的這麼嚴"},{"start":23376.92,"end":23378.92,"text":"他講的這三項"},{"start":23378.92,"end":23380.92,"text":"這三款呢要在國內"},{"start":23380.92,"end":23382.92,"text":"這樣共同生產組裝跟"},{"start":23382.92,"end":23384.92,"text":"整合測試還有後勤"},{"start":23384.92,"end":23386.92,"text":"維修能量講的很好"},{"start":23387.81,"end":23389.81,"text":"但是實務上呢我們看看最後一項"},{"start":23389.81,"end":23391.81,"text":"他的第四項寫"},{"start":23391.81,"end":23393.81,"text":"本條例所需經費"},{"start":23393.81,"end":23395.81,"text":"還要提撥不低於10%"},{"start":23395.81,"end":23397.81,"text":"專攻前三項技術"},{"start":23397.81,"end":23399.81,"text":"以轉接收產業化及"},{"start":23399.81,"end":23401.81,"text":"維修能量建立資用"},{"start":23402.8,"end":23404.8,"text":"我要是跟我老爸念大學的時候"},{"start":23404.8,"end":23406.8,"text":"跟我老爸要個買電腦4萬塊"},{"start":23406.8,"end":23408.8,"text":"他給我下這麼多條件我看電腦就甭買啦"},{"start":23409.9,"end":23411.9,"text":"這個是什麼意思"},{"start":23411.9,"end":23413.9,"text":"也給我們就教一下法務部的參事"},{"start":23413.9,"end":23415.9,"text":"他這個應該條文上"},{"start":23415.9,"end":23417.9,"text":"就算未來真的要"},{"start":23417.9,"end":23419.9,"text":"送審啦"},{"start":23419.9,"end":23421.9,"text":"沒有所謂的前三項"},{"start":23421.33,"end":23423.33,"text":"這裡面只有第一項第二項第三項跟第四項"},{"start":23423.33,"end":23425.33,"text":"第四項可以寫"},{"start":23426.49,"end":23428.49,"text":"第二項之三款"},{"start":23429.21,"end":23431.21,"text":"你要寫就寫第二項之三款或寫第二項"},{"start":23432.8,"end":23434.8,"text":"的這些技術以轉"},{"start":23434.8,"end":23436.8,"text":"哪來的前三項"},{"start":23436.8,"end":23438.8,"text":"前三項是哪前三項"},{"start":23438.8,"end":23440.8,"text":"前面那三項通通都是你這個第四項"},{"start":23440.8,"end":23442.8,"text":"涵蓋的範圍嗎"},{"start":23442.61,"end":23444.61,"text":"所以我還是要建議在野黨"},{"start":23444.61,"end":23446.61,"text":"如果真的有心"},{"start":23447.38,"end":23449.38,"text":"要建立我們國防自主"},{"start":23449.64,"end":23451.64,"text":"防衛台海安全"},{"start":23451.64,"end":23453.64,"text":"你們也希望產業能夠在過程當中"},{"start":23453.64,"end":23455.64,"text":"獲益強化我們"},{"start":23455.64,"end":23457.64,"text":"自主生產的量能"},{"start":23457.64,"end":23459.64,"text":"也能夠在過程當中刺激"},{"start":23459.64,"end":23461.64,"text":"我們台灣的技術研發取得"},{"start":23461.64,"end":23463.64,"text":"更多的自主研發能力這都很好"},{"start":23463.64,"end":23465.64,"text":"但是這樣條文的寫法"},{"start":23465.64,"end":23467.64,"text":"根本就是適得其反"},{"start":23467.64,"end":23469.64,"text":"讓人家覺得這哪裡是"},{"start":23469.64,"end":23471.64,"text":"要來幫忙這是來找麻煩"},{"start":23471.64,"end":23473.64,"text":"再強調一次這種條文"},{"start":23473.64,"end":23475.64,"text":"寫法哪裡是來幫忙"},{"start":23475.64,"end":23477.64,"text":"這是在找麻煩"},{"start":23483.7,"end":23485.7,"text":"好這個"},{"start":23485.72,"end":23487.72,"text":"我夠快嗎"},{"start":23487.66,"end":23489.66,"text":"這個早上"},{"start":23489.66,"end":23491.66,"text":"我跟那個受寵若驚"},{"start":23491.66,"end":23493.66,"text":"某人接受"},{"start":23493.66,"end":23495.66,"text":"那是把版本"},{"start":23495.66,"end":23497.66,"text":"好"},{"start":23497.66,"end":23499.66,"text":"左屁右打"},{"start":23499.66,"end":23501.66,"text":"這個叫做"},{"start":23501.66,"end":23503.66,"text":"道地叫做"},{"start":23503.66,"end":23505.66,"text":"民懷暗殺"},{"start":23505.66,"end":23507.66,"text":"實際上就是殺"},{"start":23507.66,"end":23509.66,"text":"這個東西也不要把本質想"},{"start":23509.66,"end":23511.66,"text":"自己都給打"},{"start":23511.66,"end":23513.66,"text":"版本推出來就是進得去考驗"},{"start":23513.38,"end":23515.38,"text":"就是進得去考驗"},{"start":23515.39,"end":23517.39,"text":"我們一直主張"},{"start":23517.39,"end":23519.39,"text":"國務部要多少錢"},{"start":23519.39,"end":23521.39,"text":"你才合理的這生肖我說應該買"},{"start":23521.68,"end":23523.68,"text":"就是一杯雨水"},{"start":23523.27,"end":23525.27,"text":"那我提了500億就是針對"},{"start":23525.27,"end":23527.27,"text":"我要upgrade"},{"start":23527.27,"end":23529.27,"text":"我要技術能夠升更的"},{"start":23529.27,"end":23531.27,"text":"已經有這個"},{"start":23531.96,"end":23533.96,"text":"但是obviously等一下何處長"},{"start":23533.96,"end":23535.96,"text":"如果講不對你可以補充"},{"start":23535.69,"end":23537.69,"text":"中文不怎麼樣啊"},{"start":23537.69,"end":23539.69,"text":"我們跟美國買了多了武器請問"},{"start":23539.69,"end":23541.69,"text":"Obset是怎麼樣"},{"start":23543.21,"end":23545.21,"text":"這都一套無毒啊"},{"start":23545.46,"end":23547.46,"text":"根本不敢跟你跟美國要啊"},{"start":23548.14,"end":23550.14,"text":"第一個40%Obset就是"},{"start":23550.14,"end":23552.14,"text":"我跟你買100塊你要給我"},{"start":23552.14,"end":23554.14,"text":"40塊的訂單"},{"start":23554.64,"end":23556.64,"text":"Obset"},{"start":23555.82,"end":23557.82,"text":"買700億美金"},{"start":23557.82,"end":23559.82,"text":"向美國買700億美金"},{"start":23559.72,"end":23561.72,"text":"他也沒有給我們40%的訂單"},{"start":23562.94,"end":23564.94,"text":"當然沒有啊怎麼會有呢"},{"start":23567.41,"end":23569.41,"text":"我怎麼查就沒有啊"},{"start":23569.41,"end":23571.41,"text":"這個東西就是我們要落實"},{"start":23571.41,"end":23573.41,"text":"技術的升級我們跟美國"},{"start":23573.41,"end":23575.41,"text":"一直買一直買"},{"start":23575.41,"end":23577.41,"text":"難道你說我大人我讚"},{"start":23577.41,"end":23579.41,"text":"我不服論"},{"start":23579.41,"end":23581.41,"text":"台灣的晶片非常棒台灣的資訊工業非常棒"},{"start":23582.35,"end":23584.35,"text":"台灣的晶片非常棒"},{"start":23583.83,"end":23585.83,"text":"我們是工業王國"},{"start":23585.79,"end":23587.79,"text":"但是呢在軍工行業這一塊"},{"start":23590.82,"end":23592.82,"text":"我們只有買而已啊"},{"start":23592.82,"end":23594.82,"text":"技術沒有深耕啊"},{"start":23594.82,"end":23596.82,"text":"美國根本反過來買嗎"},{"start":23596.82,"end":23598.82,"text":"我們跟他買100億美金"},{"start":23598.82,"end":23600.82,"text":"他要跟我們買40億美金的"},{"start":23600.82,"end":23602.82,"text":"其他的一些相關的零主件嗎"},{"start":23602.82,"end":23604.82,"text":"答案是沒有的嘛"},{"start":23604.82,"end":23606.82,"text":"就是說的不好嘛"},{"start":23606.82,"end":23608.82,"text":"所以我的500億就是針對"},{"start":23608.82,"end":23610.82,"text":"我買了之後"},{"start":23611.42,"end":23613.42,"text":"不管是美國或是其他國家"},{"start":23613.42,"end":23615.42,"text":"你要跟我買相對應的"},{"start":23615.42,"end":23617.42,"text":"買40%以上的offset"},{"start":23617.42,"end":23619.42,"text":"這個不是什麼挖坑啦"},{"start":23619.42,"end":23621.42,"text":"這個已經有這樣做了"},{"start":23621.42,"end":23623.42,"text":"過去就這樣規定"},{"start":23623.42,"end":23625.42,"text":"只是一直沒有落實"},{"start":23625.83,"end":23627.83,"text":"黃志祺這個拜託當立法委員"},{"start":23627.83,"end":23629.83,"text":"這個這個中委員你都是"},{"start":23629.83,"end":23631.83,"text":"老鳥不是菜鳥"},{"start":23631.83,"end":23633.83,"text":"要知道那那麼丁"},{"start":23633.83,"end":23635.83,"text":"經濟部就有病了"},{"start":23635.83,"end":23637.83,"text":"只是沒有做"},{"start":23637.44,"end":23639.44,"text":"那不是我們失職嗎"},{"start":23639.44,"end":23641.44,"text":"我們沒有好好去監督啊"},{"start":23641.44,"end":23643.44,"text":"我們對外的武器採購就應該跟他要求"},{"start":23643.44,"end":23645.44,"text":"40%你要跟我買回去"},{"start":23645.66,"end":23647.66,"text":"這個才是長久之道"},{"start":23647.66,"end":23649.66,"text":"才有辦法落實我們的金工產業"},{"start":23649.66,"end":23651.66,"text":"阿婆就跟他講"},{"start":23651.66,"end":23653.66,"text":"我們也希望這一次"},{"start":23654.03,"end":23656.03,"text":"我們沒有失職我們國王"},{"start":23656.67,"end":23658.67,"text":"這個國務部提出了那三大項"},{"start":23660.16,"end":23662.16,"text":"無人機兩種無人機一種無人機"},{"start":23663.82,"end":23665.82,"text":"這個錢能夠帶動台灣的金工產業"},{"start":23665.82,"end":23667.82,"text":"能夠土味穩定"},{"start":23667.82,"end":23669.82,"text":"能夠上來"},{"start":23670.05,"end":23672.05,"text":"否則的話我們英文就是"},{"start":23672.05,"end":23674.05,"text":"都跟台灣的金工產業"},{"start":23674.05,"end":23676.05,"text":"真的去做整齊的"},{"start":23676.39,"end":23678.39,"text":"沒有幾個啦"},{"start":23678.39,"end":23680.39,"text":"所以"},{"start":23680.39,"end":23682.39,"text":"我覺得第五條其實第五條"},{"start":23682.39,"end":23684.39,"text":"講的才會有的啦"},{"start":23684.39,"end":23686.39,"text":"都不用講太多就是"},{"start":23686.39,"end":23688.39,"text":"要特別預算或是不要"},{"start":23688.39,"end":23690.39,"text":"但是錢一定給你"},{"start":23690.39,"end":23692.39,"text":"你們邊"},{"start":23692.39,"end":23694.39,"text":"你們邊我們就"},{"start":23694.39,"end":23696.39,"text":"特別預算就破壞資訊"},{"start":23696.39,"end":23698.39,"text":"這個你們把違章建築"},{"start":23698.39,"end":23700.39,"text":"當作一般建築"},{"start":23701.4,"end":23703.4,"text":"不要特別預算常態化"},{"start":23703.4,"end":23705.4,"text":"這是我們強調的"},{"start":23705.4,"end":23707.4,"text":"哪一次特別預算"},{"start":23708.62,"end":23710.62,"text":"沒有國務部的因子幾乎都有"},{"start":23710.62,"end":23712.62,"text":"貼著的論信就哪一天一樣"},{"start":23713.91,"end":23715.91,"text":"什麼什麼什麼"},{"start":23715.91,"end":23717.91,"text":"國務部就吃一塊"},{"start":23718.9,"end":23720.9,"text":"現在你還特別要再吃這麼大塊"},{"start":23720.9,"end":23722.9,"text":"我們就覺得放在年度預算"},{"start":23722.9,"end":23724.9,"text":"監督力道也比較足啦"},{"start":23724.9,"end":23726.9,"text":"這個特別預算"},{"start":23726.9,"end":23728.9,"text":"就是說這個特別預算"},{"start":23728.9,"end":23730.9,"text":"就太特別了"},{"start":23733.77,"end":23735.77,"text":"來 臨處委員"},{"start":23735.54,"end":23737.54,"text":"謝謝主席喔"},{"start":23737.54,"end":23739.54,"text":"其實我們都知道其實到第五條"},{"start":23739.54,"end":23741.54,"text":"就是一個深水區啦"},{"start":23741.54,"end":23743.54,"text":"因為剛剛大家不論是國民黨的委員"},{"start":23743.54,"end":23745.54,"text":"或是民眾黨的委員"},{"start":23745.54,"end":23747.54,"text":"還包括民黨委員都已經有發言了"},{"start":23747.54,"end":23749.54,"text":"那麼這個深水區其實就決定了"},{"start":23749.54,"end":23751.54,"text":"接下來"},{"start":23751.54,"end":23753.54,"text":"到底我們要不要"},{"start":23753.54,"end":23755.54,"text":"來採購"},{"start":23755.54,"end":23757.54,"text":"那要用什麼樣的方式採購以及"},{"start":23757.54,"end":23759.54,"text":"採購之後什麼時候可以拿得到"},{"start":23759.54,"end":23761.54,"text":"比如說如果真的"},{"start":23761.54,"end":23763.54,"text":"就如同國民黨跟民眾黨"},{"start":23763.54,"end":23765.54,"text":"認為的現在就是"},{"start":23765.54,"end":23767.54,"text":"要進入年度預算"},{"start":23767.54,"end":23769.54,"text":"那麼進入年度預算的時候"},{"start":23769.54,"end":23771.54,"text":"你跟人家買東西"},{"start":23771.54,"end":23773.54,"text":"那麼人家為什麼要"},{"start":23773.54,"end":23775.54,"text":"先給你四百億之後"},{"start":23775.54,"end":23777.54,"text":"全部的東西就給你來使用"},{"start":23777.54,"end":23779.54,"text":"我相信這個也是"},{"start":23779.54,"end":23781.54,"text":"大家在面對"},{"start":23781.54,"end":23783.54,"text":"我們現在討論這一題的時候"},{"start":23783.54,"end":23785.54,"text":"其實最明確知道的嘛"},{"start":23785.54,"end":23787.54,"text":"因為如果說回到"},{"start":23787.54,"end":23789.54,"text":"年度預算那麼還是要"},{"start":23789.54,"end":23791.54,"text":"回到老生常談就是"},{"start":23791.54,"end":23793.54,"text":"我們現在2026年的年度預算都還卡住"},{"start":23793.54,"end":23795.54,"text":"那麼我相信"},{"start":23795.54,"end":23797.54,"text":"在公聽會7月23號公聽會的時候"},{"start":23797.54,"end":23799.54,"text":"廠商業者都講得"},{"start":23799.54,"end":23801.54,"text":"非常的清楚跟明白"},{"start":23801.54,"end":23803.54,"text":"就是如果沒有一個穩定的"},{"start":23803.54,"end":23805.54,"text":"預算那麼他們根本"},{"start":23805.54,"end":23807.54,"text":"不敢下去做常單"},{"start":23807.54,"end":23809.54,"text":"所以為什麼我的版本"},{"start":23809.54,"end":23811.54,"text":"跟行政院的版本會"},{"start":23811.54,"end":23813.54,"text":"希望有一個"},{"start":23813.99,"end":23815.99,"text":"2100億為上限的"},{"start":23815.99,"end":23817.99,"text":"特別預算那就是第一"},{"start":23817.99,"end":23819.99,"text":"在採購的部分"},{"start":23819.99,"end":23821.99,"text":"確定了就是有2100"},{"start":23821.99,"end":23823.99,"text":"億那麼2100億到時候"},{"start":23823.99,"end":23825.99,"text":"他"},{"start":23825.99,"end":23827.99,"text":"有機會應該是說一定"},{"start":23827.99,"end":23829.99,"text":"可以跟美國"},{"start":23829.99,"end":23831.99,"text":"買到這些武器那麼買到之後"},{"start":23831.99,"end":23833.99,"text":"包含剛剛政天才委員特別"},{"start":23833.99,"end":23835.99,"text":"提到的我們怎麼樣的國防"},{"start":23835.99,"end":23837.99,"text":"製組那麼當然接下來"},{"start":23837.99,"end":23839.99,"text":"剛剛這個"},{"start":23839.99,"end":23841.99,"text":"國民黨的委員也有提到的希望能夠"},{"start":23841.99,"end":23843.99,"text":"技術轉移或等等"},{"start":23843.99,"end":23845.99,"text":"這個都是後續採購"},{"start":23845.99,"end":23847.99,"text":"我相信國防部這裡"},{"start":23848.13,"end":23850.13,"text":"會去做"},{"start":23849.78,"end":23851.78,"text":"進一步的協商跟溝通"},{"start":23851.78,"end":23853.78,"text":"包括我們在採購的過程當中"},{"start":23854.76,"end":23856.76,"text":"有多少的部分可以"},{"start":23856.76,"end":23858.76,"text":"計轉給我們的無人產業"},{"start":23858.76,"end":23860.76,"text":"的業者來未來"},{"start":23860.76,"end":23862.76,"text":"做生產但是如果說"},{"start":23862.76,"end":23864.76,"text":"你今天沒有一個穩定"},{"start":23866.17,"end":23868.17,"text":"的長單我覺得是坑殺業者"},{"start":23868.17,"end":23870.17,"text":"業者也講了就是"},{"start":23870.17,"end":23872.17,"text":"你一下有一下"},{"start":23872.17,"end":23874.17,"text":"沒有然後以目前"},{"start":23874.17,"end":23876.17,"text":"立法院的情況大家也不要騙人了"},{"start":23876.17,"end":23878.17,"text":"這個預算能夠順利的"},{"start":23878.17,"end":23880.17,"text":"編列下來嗎"},{"start":23880.01,"end":23882.01,"text":"那麼業者敢去投資敢去生產嗎"},{"start":23882.01,"end":23884.01,"text":"甚至於我說實話"},{"start":23884.01,"end":23886.01,"text":"連銀行可能都不就算"},{"start":23886.01,"end":23888.01,"text":"業者想先去生產銀行可能"},{"start":23888.01,"end":23890.01,"text":"都不敢給你貸款"},{"start":23890.01,"end":23892.01,"text":"沒有訂單哪來貸款"},{"start":23892.01,"end":23894.01,"text":"這個到時候在銀行"},{"start":23894.01,"end":23896.01,"text":"審核的過程當中都會覺得"},{"start":23896.01,"end":23898.01,"text":"你沒單"},{"start":23897.45,"end":23899.45,"text":"我還給你貸不要銀行到時候"},{"start":23899.45,"end":23901.45,"text":"還出現超貸偽貸"},{"start":23901.45,"end":23903.45,"text":"假貸所以講白了"},{"start":23903.45,"end":23905.45,"text":"是回到這個整個社會上"},{"start":23905.45,"end":23907.45,"text":"的邏輯就是用一個"},{"start":23907.45,"end":23909.45,"text":"特別預算他才能夠穩定的"},{"start":23909.45,"end":23911.45,"text":"有訂單然後我們也才能夠買"},{"start":23911.45,"end":23913.45,"text":"得到所以這也是為什麼我相信"},{"start":23913.45,"end":23915.45,"text":"今天我們在這裡討論第五條"},{"start":23915.45,"end":23917.45,"text":"的深水區我覺得用特別預算"},{"start":23917.45,"end":23919.45,"text":"的方式才是最可行的"},{"start":23921.77,"end":23923.77,"text":"還有新的討論"},{"start":23923.77,"end":23925.77,"text":"我要請教"},{"start":23925.77,"end":23927.77,"text":"剛剛"},{"start":23927.77,"end":23929.77,"text":"顧部長提到的那幾個問題"},{"start":23929.77,"end":23931.77,"text":"是不是國民黨的委員"},{"start":23931.77,"end":23933.77,"text":"能夠回答"},{"start":23933.77,"end":23935.77,"text":"你的公務預算每年編列"},{"start":23935.77,"end":23937.77,"text":"400億"},{"start":23936.84,"end":23938.84,"text":"那如果編列不足的話"},{"start":23938.84,"end":23940.84,"text":"算不算違法"},{"start":23940.84,"end":23942.84,"text":"如果編列超過的話算不算"},{"start":23942.84,"end":23944.84,"text":"違法他的長單"},{"start":23944.84,"end":23946.84,"text":"長單訂購他不一定今年"},{"start":23946.84,"end":23948.84,"text":"需要可以付到400億"},{"start":23948.84,"end":23950.84,"text":"或者是下一個年度需要"},{"start":23950.84,"end":23952.84,"text":"多過400億的時候預算要"},{"start":23952.84,"end":23954.84,"text":"怎麼編列"},{"start":23954.41,"end":23956.41,"text":"我們是不是可以就請教"},{"start":23956.41,"end":23958.41,"text":"偉大的國民黨的黨團"},{"start":23958.41,"end":23960.41,"text":"因為這法條是你們寫的這版本"},{"start":23960.41,"end":23962.41,"text":"是你們寫的可不可以說明一下"},{"start":23962.91,"end":23964.91,"text":"預算編列不足算不算違法"},{"start":23964.91,"end":23966.91,"text":"預算編列超過算不算違法"},{"start":23966.91,"end":23968.91,"text":"如果長單訂購的時候"},{"start":23968.91,"end":23970.91,"text":"法律明定多少就是多少"},{"start":23970.91,"end":23972.91,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":23972.91,"end":23974.91,"text":"所以我一年只有400億可以花"},{"start":23974.91,"end":23976.91,"text":"那我今年不需要用到400億的時候"},{"start":23976.91,"end":23978.91,"text":"我少編"},{"start":23978.91,"end":23980.91,"text":"那編了要幹嘛"},{"start":23980.91,"end":23982.91,"text":"法律明定400億"},{"start":23982.84,"end":23984.84,"text":"法律明定400億"},{"start":23986.22,"end":23988.22,"text":"那你應該問國防部為什麼他要"},{"start":23988.22,"end":23990.22,"text":"沒有國防部沒有要這樣編啊"},{"start":23990.22,"end":23992.22,"text":"是你們寫的法條是你們寫的"},{"start":23992.22,"end":23994.22,"text":"法條是你們寫的"},{"start":23996.11,"end":23998.11,"text":"2100億他有長單短單"},{"start":23998.11,"end":24000.11,"text":"他不是一年執行完"},{"start":24000.11,"end":24002.11,"text":"這是特別採購特別條例"},{"start":24002.11,"end":24004.11,"text":"不是一年執行2100億"},{"start":24004.11,"end":24006.11,"text":"我現在問的是說"},{"start":24006.11,"end":24008.11,"text":"我現在回答你一直講話"},{"start":24008.11,"end":24010.11,"text":"我要回答"},{"start":24010.11,"end":24012.11,"text":"你等我問完你再講嘛"},{"start":24012.11,"end":24014.11,"text":"你把他明文化"},{"start":24014.11,"end":24016.11,"text":"一年規定就是編列400億"},{"start":24018.01,"end":24020.01,"text":"那如果不足的時候怎麼辦"},{"start":24020.76,"end":24022.76,"text":"超過的時候算不算違法"},{"start":24024.2,"end":24026.2,"text":"超過算不算違法"},{"start":24026.7,"end":24028.7,"text":"好第一個"},{"start":24028.7,"end":24030.7,"text":"有禮貌一點啦"},{"start":24030.7,"end":24032.7,"text":"剛才我已經講了"},{"start":24031.56,"end":24033.56,"text":"剛才我已經講了"},{"start":24034.73,"end":24036.73,"text":"法律明定一年400億"},{"start":24038.92,"end":24040.92,"text":"狗狗"},{"start":24040.32,"end":24042.32,"text":"法律明定400億"},{"start":24043.52,"end":24045.52,"text":"國防部如果認為"},{"start":24045.52,"end":24047.52,"text":"我用不到400億一年"},{"start":24048.54,"end":24050.54,"text":"當然在其他的產業"},{"start":24051.51,"end":24053.51,"text":"因為這是"},{"start":24052.79,"end":24054.79,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":24054.79,"end":24056.79,"text":"無人宰計"},{"start":24056.38,"end":24058.38,"text":"然後我們"},{"start":24057.9,"end":24059.9,"text":"要讓產業"},{"start":24059.71,"end":24061.71,"text":"能夠發展"},{"start":24061.31,"end":24063.31,"text":"我們自己的無人宰計"},{"start":24064.97,"end":24066.97,"text":"國防部用不到那麼多"},{"start":24066.97,"end":24068.97,"text":"我們可以給我們的產業借"},{"start":24069.82,"end":24071.82,"text":"所以一年就是編400億"},{"start":24073.76,"end":24074.76,"text":"如果認為"},{"start":24074.76,"end":24075.76,"text":"這400億不夠"},{"start":24080.24,"end":24082.24,"text":"那就要先讓國防部去"},{"start":24082.24,"end":24084.24,"text":"行政院先把大了第一劑"},{"start":24085.41,"end":24087.41,"text":"你先聽清楚嘛"},{"start":24087.41,"end":24089.41,"text":"國防自主產業"},{"start":24089.41,"end":24091.41,"text":"你要先看啊"},{"start":24091.09,"end":24093.09,"text":"國防自主產業"},{"start":24097.46,"end":24099.46,"text":"國防部他可以自己"},{"start":24099.46,"end":24101.46,"text":"可以生產嗎"},{"start":24101.46,"end":24103.46,"text":"他當然就要靠產業啊"},{"start":24103.46,"end":24105.46,"text":"產業借啊"},{"start":24103.9,"end":24105.9,"text":"國防自主啊"},{"start":24105.9,"end":24107.9,"text":"什麼叫國防自主"},{"start":24107.9,"end":24109.9,"text":"不是去買美國"},{"start":24109.9,"end":24111.9,"text":"叫國防自主啊"},{"start":24111.9,"end":24113.9,"text":"那個直接寫"},{"start":24113.9,"end":24115.9,"text":"國防"},{"start":24115.9,"end":24117.9,"text":"國防採購"},{"start":24117.9,"end":24119.9,"text":"特別條例"},{"start":24119.9,"end":24121.9,"text":"無人採購"},{"start":24121.9,"end":24123.9,"text":"國防無人採購"},{"start":24123.9,"end":24125.9,"text":"特別條例就好了"},{"start":24125.9,"end":24127.9,"text":"為什麼還要加個自主"},{"start":24127.9,"end":24129.9,"text":"為什麼要加個自主"},{"start":24129.9,"end":24131.9,"text":"自主就是要自己"},{"start":24131.9,"end":24133.9,"text":"自己產生生產為主啊"},{"start":24135.29,"end":24137.29,"text":"所以這個部分啊"},{"start":24137.47,"end":24139.47,"text":"國防採購不能隨便到產業裡面"},{"start":24139.47,"end":24141.47,"text":"去那個錢不能亂挪啊"},{"start":24141.47,"end":24143.47,"text":"中文你要看得懂"},{"start":24143.47,"end":24145.47,"text":"法律你要看得懂啊"},{"start":24145.47,"end":24147.47,"text":"你要看清楚行政院現在"},{"start":24147.47,"end":24149.47,"text":"就有這個計畫了"},{"start":24149.4,"end":24151.4,"text":"這裡面就包含了國防自主"},{"start":24151.4,"end":24153.4,"text":"非常重要的"},{"start":24153.4,"end":24155.4,"text":"在行政院的所定的"},{"start":24155.4,"end":24157.4,"text":"這個無人採購的"},{"start":24157.4,"end":24159.4,"text":"計畫裡面"},{"start":24159.4,"end":24161.4,"text":"就是寫得很清楚"},{"start":24161.4,"end":24163.4,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":24164.06,"end":24166.06,"text":"那現在呢"},{"start":24166.06,"end":24168.06,"text":"我們要把它列為"},{"start":24168.06,"end":24170.06,"text":"提升法律的位階"},{"start":24170.06,"end":24172.06,"text":"因為才會"},{"start":24171.61,"end":24173.61,"text":"不會因著不同的院長"},{"start":24174.61,"end":24176.61,"text":"不同的經濟部長"},{"start":24176.61,"end":24178.61,"text":"不同的國防部長"},{"start":24178.61,"end":24180.61,"text":"而產生預算的偏差"},{"start":24180.61,"end":24182.61,"text":"所以要特別以"},{"start":24183.3,"end":24185.3,"text":"法律"},{"start":24184.73,"end":24186.73,"text":"來民變"},{"start":24186.25,"end":24188.25,"text":"這樣的話才會"},{"start":24188.18,"end":24190.18,"text":"不會因為院長的變更"},{"start":24190.18,"end":24192.18,"text":"國防部長的變更"},{"start":24193.14,"end":24195.14,"text":"啊"},{"start":24194.18,"end":24196.18,"text":"經濟部長的調整"},{"start":24196.66,"end":24198.66,"text":"我們現在就是用法律的位階"},{"start":24198.66,"end":24200.66,"text":"把它民變"},{"start":24200.61,"end":24202.61,"text":"這個才能夠確保"},{"start":24202.54,"end":24204.54,"text":"所謂的國防自主"},{"start":24205.73,"end":24207.73,"text":"無人宰計的"},{"start":24207.73,"end":24209.73,"text":"這樣的一個法律"},{"start":24209.73,"end":24211.73,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24221.69,"end":24223.69,"text":"我們就是年度預算我不編而已"},{"start":24223.69,"end":24225.69,"text":"就按照你需求啊"},{"start":24225.39,"end":24227.39,"text":"我支持年度那種不編"},{"start":24227.39,"end":24229.39,"text":"我年度預算幹嘛要編"},{"start":24229.39,"end":24231.39,"text":"對啊"},{"start":24231.39,"end":24233.39,"text":"對啊"},{"start":24233.39,"end":24235.39,"text":"我就年度預算啊"},{"start":24235.39,"end":24237.39,"text":"就按照你的需求啊"},{"start":24237.39,"end":24239.39,"text":"你要買你要追價就提出啊"},{"start":24240.42,"end":24242.42,"text":"討論這麼多就這差別"},{"start":24243.16,"end":24245.16,"text":"這個主席啊我覺得我們"},{"start":24245.16,"end":24247.16,"text":"在委員會啊大家是朝野"},{"start":24247.98,"end":24249.98,"text":"所以應該是這樣子的對應才對"},{"start":24249.98,"end":24251.98,"text":"那第二個就是說"},{"start":24251.98,"end":24253.98,"text":"沒有人"},{"start":24253.98,"end":24255.98,"text":"會去反對"},{"start":24255.98,"end":24257.98,"text":"國防的這個"},{"start":24257.98,"end":24259.98,"text":"自主加強"},{"start":24259.98,"end":24261.98,"text":"預算"},{"start":24261.98,"end":24263.98,"text":"沒有人會反對"},{"start":24263.98,"end":24265.98,"text":"所以我們提出兩千四百億"},{"start":24265.98,"end":24267.98,"text":"有人反對嗎"},{"start":24267.89,"end":24269.89,"text":"對不對"},{"start":24269.89,"end":24271.89,"text":"有人反對嗎"},{"start":24271.89,"end":24273.89,"text":"你如果懂得這樣子就我們趕快去審"},{"start":24273.89,"end":24275.89,"text":"沒有那個說"},{"start":24275.89,"end":24277.89,"text":"如果你一年不需要四百億的"},{"start":24277.89,"end":24279.89,"text":"國防部長聽到他暈倒了"},{"start":24280.38,"end":24282.38,"text":"對不對"},{"start":24282.38,"end":24284.38,"text":"所以真一點就在於剛剛主席所說的"},{"start":24284.38,"end":24286.38,"text":"所以我敬你主席來做才事"},{"start":24290.12,"end":24292.12,"text":"好"},{"start":24292.12,"end":24294.12,"text":"我們"},{"start":24295.6,"end":24297.6,"text":"好"},{"start":24298.34,"end":24300.34,"text":"好"},{"start":24299.57,"end":24301.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24301.57,"end":24303.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24303.57,"end":24305.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24305.57,"end":24307.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24307.57,"end":24309.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24309.57,"end":24311.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24311.57,"end":24313.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24313.57,"end":24315.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24315.57,"end":24317.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24317.57,"end":24319.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24319.57,"end":24321.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24321.57,"end":24323.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24323.57,"end":24325.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24325.57,"end":24327.57,"text":"好"},{"start":24308.3,"end":24310.3,"text":"好接下來進行第六條"},{"start":24310.3,"end":24312.3,"text":"請經濟部"},{"start":24317.33,"end":24319.33,"text":"請"},{"start":24321.56,"end":24323.56,"text":"報告聯席委員會議"},{"start":24323.56,"end":24325.56,"text":"行政院版本"},{"start":24325.56,"end":24327.56,"text":"等有十個版本都規定"},{"start":24327.56,"end":24329.56,"text":"這個本條"},{"start":24329.56,"end":24331.56,"text":"本條例所列預算的執行應依法"},{"start":24331.56,"end":24333.56,"text":"辦理審計其中賴氏堡"},{"start":24333.56,"end":24335.56,"text":"等委員的版本A"},{"start":24335.56,"end":24337.56,"text":"另外要求駐管機關每六個月"},{"start":24337.56,"end":24339.56,"text":"向立法院提出專案報告"},{"start":24339.81,"end":24341.81,"text":"黃定宇等委員的版本"},{"start":24341.81,"end":24343.81,"text":"則徵訂非經立法院同意"},{"start":24343.81,"end":24345.81,"text":"不得留用及定期"},{"start":24345.81,"end":24347.81,"text":"提出執行報告"},{"start":24348.13,"end":24350.13,"text":"其滿總報告"},{"start":24350.13,"end":24352.13,"text":"等監督機制"},{"start":24351.74,"end":24353.74,"text":"行政部門這邊的建立"},{"start":24353.74,"end":24355.74,"text":"是本條例所列的預算的執行"},{"start":24357.19,"end":24359.19,"text":"請"},{"start":24363.53,"end":24365.53,"text":"決算的審核"},{"start":24365.53,"end":24367.53,"text":"問證的質詢以及專案報告"},{"start":24367.53,"end":24369.53,"text":"等現行的機制"},{"start":24369.53,"end":24371.53,"text":"要求行政機關提供執行情形"},{"start":24371.53,"end":24373.53,"text":"建立無需另"},{"start":24374.03,"end":24376.03,"text":"立法規範"},{"start":24377.47,"end":24381.47,"text":"令有關非經立法院同意不得留用的規定"},{"start":24381.47,"end":24383.47,"text":"這個部分我們再看"},{"start":24383.47,"end":24385.47,"text":"國安部這邊看是不是同意"},{"start":24385.47,"end":24387.47,"text":"來做規範"},{"start":24387.47,"end":24389.47,"text":"以上"},{"start":24389.44,"end":24391.44,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":24390.94,"end":24392.94,"text":"沒有,那是保委員,他有加註"},{"start":24395.97,"end":24397.97,"text":"現在就是要這樣了"},{"start":24399.48,"end":24401.48,"text":"至少有一個條文第六條"},{"start":24401.48,"end":24403.48,"text":"第六條就"},{"start":24403.48,"end":24405.48,"text":"按照"},{"start":24404.23,"end":24406.23,"text":"現在就這樣了"},{"start":24405.96,"end":24407.96,"text":"現在就這樣了,你不堅持"},{"start":24407.98,"end":24409.98,"text":"來來來"},{"start":24409.98,"end":24411.98,"text":"我是呼籲我前面的"},{"start":24411.98,"end":24413.98,"text":"強調技術輿轉"},{"start":24413.98,"end":24415.98,"text":"六個報告技術輿轉"},{"start":24415.98,"end":24417.98,"text":"以及採購進度以及工業合作"},{"start":24417.98,"end":24419.98,"text":"就Obset這個相關金塊"},{"start":24419.98,"end":24421.98,"text":"這個我不堅持"},{"start":24421.98,"end":24423.98,"text":"大家同意"},{"start":24423.98,"end":24425.98,"text":"第六條"},{"start":24425.98,"end":24427.98,"text":"願保沒有意見"},{"start":24427.98,"end":24429.98,"text":"民眾黨團又沒有版本"},{"start":24429.98,"end":24431.98,"text":"你們根本沒有講到預算"},{"start":24431.98,"end":24433.98,"text":"你們的版本根本沒有預算"},{"start":24435.55,"end":24437.55,"text":"第六條就是講那個"},{"start":24437.55,"end":24439.55,"text":"預算是執行"},{"start":24439.55,"end":24441.55,"text":"你們的條例根本沒有預算要執行"},{"start":24443.72,"end":24445.72,"text":"不是這樣子啦"},{"start":24451.79,"end":24453.79,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":24453.36,"end":24455.36,"text":"那個第六條是因為"},{"start":24455.36,"end":24457.36,"text":"有特別預算才有這一條"},{"start":24457.36,"end":24459.36,"text":"第一條就保留"},{"start":24459.36,"end":24461.36,"text":"國眾兩黨沒有"},{"start":24461.36,"end":24463.36,"text":"特別預算所以沒有這一條"},{"start":24463.36,"end":24465.36,"text":"所以這一條要保留啦"},{"start":24467.41,"end":24469.41,"text":"沒有這一條所以要保留"},{"start":24469.41,"end":24471.41,"text":"國眾兩黨沒有的我們都不要審"},{"start":24471.41,"end":24473.41,"text":"就直接保留啊"},{"start":24473.41,"end":24475.41,"text":"這已經不一樣了不利面吧"},{"start":24475.41,"end":24477.41,"text":"因為我沒有特別預算所以我當然不會寫這個"},{"start":24478.87,"end":24480.87,"text":"我是年度預算所以我當然不會寫這個"},{"start":24480.87,"end":24482.87,"text":"好啦主席還是要講一下"},{"start":24482.87,"end":24484.87,"text":"因為我看到你們後面的第五條啦"},{"start":24485.35,"end":24487.35,"text":"好啦主席我講一下"},{"start":24487.35,"end":24489.35,"text":"你們的第五條你們還定義叫做"},{"start":24489.35,"end":24491.35,"text":"發展綱領啦"},{"start":24491.35,"end":24493.35,"text":"那麼其實呢其他以特別預算"},{"start":24493.35,"end":24495.35,"text":"提出的都是採納"},{"start":24495.35,"end":24497.35,"text":"型內容版本本條例所列預算"},{"start":24497.35,"end":24499.35,"text":"是執行審計機關因依法"},{"start":24499.35,"end":24501.35,"text":"辦理審計這是再明白"},{"start":24501.35,"end":24503.35,"text":"不過的道理那至於說"},{"start":24503.35,"end":24505.35,"text":"賴氏寶委員的A板因為他一直心繫"},{"start":24505.35,"end":24507.35,"text":"說什麼技術移轉等等"},{"start":24507.35,"end":24509.35,"text":"看起來很好意事實上很詭計"},{"start":24509.35,"end":24511.35,"text":"他就堅持要加第二項那我們也"},{"start":24511.35,"end":24513.35,"text":"有尊重啦但是"},{"start":24513.35,"end":24515.35,"text":"那個第四民眾黨團的第五條呢"},{"start":24515.35,"end":24517.35,"text":"他這裡寫"},{"start":24517.7,"end":24519.7,"text":"經濟部應每四年提出"},{"start":24519.7,"end":24521.7,"text":"無人機產業發展綱領"},{"start":24521.7,"end":24523.7,"text":"每兩年檢討修正"},{"start":24523.7,"end":24525.7,"text":"涉及國防運用事項"},{"start":24525.7,"end":24527.7,"text":"應會同國防部進行"},{"start":24527.7,"end":24529.7,"text":"那為什麼我再提說"},{"start":24529.7,"end":24531.7,"text":"今天主席一直沒有分流"},{"start":24531.7,"end":24533.7,"text":"就會造成我們這個困擾"},{"start":24533.7,"end":24535.7,"text":"其實這個條文如果"},{"start":24535.7,"end":24537.7,"text":"嚴格來講"},{"start":24537.46,"end":24539.46,"text":"看起來"},{"start":24539.46,"end":24541.46,"text":"似乎國家要提出一個"},{"start":24541.46,"end":24543.46,"text":"這個無人機"},{"start":24542.73,"end":24544.73,"text":"或是無人機你們是不是無人機"},{"start":24544.73,"end":24546.73,"text":"我是認為是無人載具產業的發展綱領"},{"start":24548.04,"end":24550.04,"text":"訂出一個無人載具產業的發展綱領"},{"start":24550.04,"end":24552.04,"text":"不是壞事啊"},{"start":24552.08,"end":24554.08,"text":"但是由於砸了你們這個"},{"start":24554.08,"end":24556.08,"text":"你們的版本就是有點"},{"start":24556.08,"end":24558.08,"text":"突然天外廢了一筆"},{"start":24558.08,"end":24560.08,"text":"叫我們看了說有一個發展綱領不錯"},{"start":24560.08,"end":24562.08,"text":"但是沒地方擺啊"},{"start":24562.08,"end":24564.08,"text":"我們今天討論到目前大家有討論"},{"start":24564.08,"end":24566.08,"text":"爭議的都跟這個沒有關係啊"},{"start":24566.08,"end":24568.08,"text":"所以這一條好像是天外廢了一筆"},{"start":24568.08,"end":24570.08,"text":"讓我們不知道如何面對示好"},{"start":24570.08,"end":24572.08,"text":"而且這裡面還說喔"},{"start":24572.08,"end":24574.08,"text":"最後一項寫第一項所稱無人載具"},{"start":24574.08,"end":24576.08,"text":"無人機產業發展綱領"},{"start":24576.08,"end":24578.08,"text":"應依國家無人機產業"},{"start":24578.08,"end":24580.08,"text":"發展戰略特別委員"},{"start":24580.08,"end":24582.08,"text":"我知道你們設一個戰略特別委員會"},{"start":24582.08,"end":24584.08,"text":"我看過喔"},{"start":24584.08,"end":24586.08,"text":"還兵經行政院核定"},{"start":24586.08,"end":24588.08,"text":"應送立法院備查"},{"start":24588.08,"end":24590.08,"text":"哇這個就是大學問了"},{"start":24590.08,"end":24592.08,"text":"最近聽說國民黨有"},{"start":24592.08,"end":24594.08,"text":"建言說要將國統綱領"},{"start":24594.08,"end":24596.08,"text":"繼續來發揚光大"},{"start":24596.08,"end":24598.08,"text":"要將國統會恢復運作"},{"start":24598.08,"end":24600.08,"text":"老實說啊"},{"start":24600.08,"end":24602.08,"text":"當年的國統綱領在總統府那時候"},{"start":24602.08,"end":24604.08,"text":"的宣示李登輝前總統在"},{"start":24604.08,"end":24606.08,"text":"1991年也沒有送到"},{"start":24606.08,"end":24608.08,"text":"立法院來弄一個所謂的"},{"start":24608.08,"end":24610.08,"text":"什麼什麼綱領啊"},{"start":24610.08,"end":24612.08,"text":"所以呢有盡於處理啊"},{"start":24612.08,"end":24614.08,"text":"我是覺得既然如此民眾黨黨團的這個"},{"start":24614.08,"end":24616.08,"text":"提案呢其實是可以分流"},{"start":24616.08,"end":24618.08,"text":"就不用處理我們就認真的來討論"},{"start":24618.08,"end":24620.08,"text":"那個第六條那至於"},{"start":24620.08,"end":24622.08,"text":"國民黨的更可笑啦"},{"start":24622.08,"end":24624.08,"text":"他說第四條國防部應依"},{"start":24624.08,"end":24626.08,"text":"量大價廉"},{"start":24626.08,"end":24628.08,"text":"智慧化分布式的原則"},{"start":24628.08,"end":24630.08,"text":"這講得不錯嘛定定無人機"},{"start":24630.08,"end":24632.08,"text":"無人載具防衛體系"},{"start":24632.08,"end":24634.08,"text":"之中長期"},{"start":24634.08,"end":24636.08,"text":"發展目標這個很適合"},{"start":24636.08,"end":24638.08,"text":"在年度預算的時候放在主決議裡面"},{"start":24638.08,"end":24640.08,"text":"並且以兩年滾動檢討"},{"start":24640.08,"end":24642.08,"text":"一次並依台海安全"},{"start":24642.08,"end":24644.08,"text":"情勢變化及國際先進"},{"start":24644.08,"end":24646.08,"text":"國家之發展趨勢調整"},{"start":24646.08,"end":24648.08,"text":"這個太像我們在審"},{"start":24648.08,"end":24650.08,"text":"立法院在審行政院"},{"start":24650.08,"end":24652.08,"text":"年度預算的主決議文"},{"start":24652.08,"end":24654.08,"text":"然後經濟部應會同國防部"},{"start":24654.08,"end":24656.08,"text":"每年向立法院提出無人載具"},{"start":24656.08,"end":24658.08,"text":"提升國防戰力產業發展"},{"start":24658.08,"end":24660.08,"text":"科技創新及經濟效益"},{"start":24660.08,"end":24662.08,"text":"階段性的發展報告"},{"start":24662.08,"end":24664.08,"text":"我是建議啊國民黨團團你們這個"},{"start":24664.08,"end":24666.08,"text":"這個條文其實可以放在"},{"start":24666.08,"end":24668.08,"text":"我們年度預算審的時候放在主決議"},{"start":24668.08,"end":24670.08,"text":"還比較相稱"},{"start":24670.08,"end":24672.08,"text":"放在一個"},{"start":24671.33,"end":24673.33,"text":"放在一個這樣的一個專法裡面"},{"start":24673.33,"end":24675.33,"text":"感覺上有點"},{"start":24675.33,"end":24677.33,"text":"有點有點"},{"start":24677.33,"end":24679.33,"text":"好像位階上不太對稱"},{"start":24679.33,"end":24681.33,"text":"一個私下的建議謝謝"},{"start":24684.93,"end":24686.93,"text":"好"},{"start":24687.72,"end":24689.72,"text":"拜拜拜拜拜拜"},{"start":24689.73,"end":24691.73,"text":"其實各位都誤會了因為"},{"start":24691.73,"end":24693.73,"text":"這個預算當然你就會寫到第六條"},{"start":24693.73,"end":24695.73,"text":"年度預算就不會有這幾條就這樣子"},{"start":24695.73,"end":24697.73,"text":"所以也因為在前面"},{"start":24697.73,"end":24699.73,"text":"這邊的不同所以我們第六條"},{"start":24699.73,"end":24701.73,"text":"也是一樣保留"},{"start":24702.5,"end":24704.5,"text":"然後接下來的話就是跟"},{"start":24704.98,"end":24706.98,"text":"也不能講說因為行政院的"},{"start":24706.98,"end":24708.98,"text":"條文到這邊就"},{"start":24709.32,"end":24711.32,"text":"差不多結束因為他直接就跳到"},{"start":24711.32,"end":24713.32,"text":"最後面那個實施的日期了"},{"start":24713.32,"end":24715.32,"text":"但是在這裡頭"},{"start":24715.32,"end":24717.32,"text":"來講的話基本上"},{"start":24721.54,"end":24723.54,"text":"這個是回到我們早上談的問題"},{"start":24723.54,"end":24725.54,"text":"我們就提我們的版本"},{"start":24725.54,"end":24727.54,"text":"我們現在已經把它整了"},{"start":24727.54,"end":24729.54,"text":"把它整了"},{"start":24729.54,"end":24731.54,"text":"整成是這樣因為就像後來"},{"start":24731.54,"end":24733.54,"text":"中嘉賓委員後面也是一樣有些是"},{"start":24733.54,"end":24735.54,"text":"也只有你的這一個到產"},{"start":24735.54,"end":24737.54,"text":"因為行政院版也沒有行政院版"},{"start":24737.54,"end":24739.54,"text":"也沒有"},{"start":24738.85,"end":24740.85,"text":"不是啊"},{"start":24740.85,"end":24742.85,"text":"我就一條一條我已經幫你們整理好了"},{"start":24742.85,"end":24744.85,"text":"所以就一條一條來就這樣子"},{"start":24745.63,"end":24747.63,"text":"經紀人會這邊開始"},{"start":24749.97,"end":24751.97,"text":"你要有一個follow的順序嗎"},{"start":24751.97,"end":24753.97,"text":"對啊所以現在就是第14頁"},{"start":24753.97,"end":24755.97,"text":"第14頁"},{"start":24758.63,"end":24760.63,"text":"國民黨的第四條"},{"start":24760.63,"end":24762.63,"text":"國民黨的第四條"},{"start":24762.63,"end":24764.63,"text":"跟台灣民眾黨團的第五條"},{"start":24766.81,"end":24768.81,"text":"我跟甘迷"},{"start":24769.19,"end":24771.19,"text":"沒有國統 康寧"},{"start":24775.79,"end":24777.79,"text":"五決一就可以了"},{"start":24777.79,"end":24779.79,"text":"五決一了"},{"start":24780.51,"end":24782.51,"text":"好那就是兩個版本我們都保留啊"},{"start":24784.88,"end":24788.88,"text":"再來是國民黨黨團的提案的第五條"},{"start":24791.02,"end":24793.02,"text":"這個反對啦"},{"start":24793.02,"end":24795.02,"text":"那個我要不要請教一下"},{"start":24795.49,"end":24797.49,"text":"這你們現在看起來就是要馬上又過水過去了"},{"start":24797.49,"end":24799.49,"text":"來我請教一下國民黨團的提案"},{"start":24799.49,"end":24801.49,"text":"是不是能夠請國民黨說明一下"},{"start":24801.49,"end":24803.49,"text":"第四條"},{"start":24803.49,"end":24805.49,"text":"國防部應依量大"},{"start":24805.49,"end":24807.49,"text":"價廉"},{"start":24807.49,"end":24809.49,"text":"智慧化分布式"},{"start":24809.49,"end":24811.49,"text":"資源擇"},{"start":24811.49,"end":24813.49,"text":"分布式資源擇"},{"start":24813.49,"end":24815.49,"text":"訂定無人載具防衛"},{"start":24815.49,"end":24817.49,"text":"體系之中長期"},{"start":24817.49,"end":24819.49,"text":"發展目標"},{"start":24819.49,"end":24821.49,"text":"並每兩年滾動檢討一次"},{"start":24821.49,"end":24823.49,"text":"請問這是什麼意思"},{"start":24823.49,"end":24825.49,"text":"來那個國防部"},{"start":24826.71,"end":24828.71,"text":"不是啊"},{"start":24828.08,"end":24830.08,"text":"那個就是保留了"},{"start":24830.08,"end":24832.08,"text":"就你兩個性質不同嘛"},{"start":24832.08,"end":24834.08,"text":"來我請教我可不可以請教一下國民黨黨團"},{"start":24836.62,"end":24838.62,"text":"國民黨黨團你們寫這個條文"},{"start":24838.62,"end":24840.62,"text":"這個是要怎麼執行"},{"start":24840.62,"end":24842.62,"text":"是要怎麼做"},{"start":24842.62,"end":24844.62,"text":"這個國防部能不能回應一下"},{"start":24844.62,"end":24846.62,"text":"什麼叫做量大"},{"start":24846.62,"end":24848.62,"text":"價廉"},{"start":24848.62,"end":24850.62,"text":"智慧化分布式"},{"start":24853.53,"end":24855.53,"text":"請問這是要怎麼做"},{"start":24855.99,"end":24857.99,"text":"啊那寫條文的人是誰"},{"start":24857.99,"end":24859.99,"text":"可以說來說明一下嗎"},{"start":24859.08,"end":24861.08,"text":"我用台語說什麼"},{"start":24861.08,"end":24863.08,"text":"量大價廉"},{"start":24863.08,"end":24865.08,"text":"就是CP值高"},{"start":24865.08,"end":24867.08,"text":"就簡單"},{"start":24867.08,"end":24869.08,"text":"CP值高"},{"start":24869.08,"end":24871.08,"text":"智慧化分布式就是"},{"start":24871.08,"end":24873.08,"text":"這個去中"},{"start":24873.08,"end":24875.08,"text":"去中心話不是我不講"},{"start":24875.08,"end":24877.08,"text":"尊重你的寫出來"},{"start":24877.08,"end":24879.08,"text":"這個條文提出來"},{"start":24879.08,"end":24881.08,"text":"你要量大價廉"},{"start":24881.08,"end":24883.08,"text":"國防的採購一定是要"},{"start":24883.08,"end":24885.08,"text":"需求是什麼就買什麼"},{"start":24885.08,"end":24887.08,"text":"怎麼會寫量大價廉"},{"start":24887.08,"end":24889.08,"text":"分布式"},{"start":24889.08,"end":24891.08,"text":"台語就是念過"},{"start":24891.08,"end":24893.08,"text":"然後決議了"},{"start":24893.08,"end":24895.08,"text":"不是啦這個台語"},{"start":24895.08,"end":24897.08,"text":"台語念過決議"},{"start":24897.38,"end":24899.38,"text":"這一條沒討論"},{"start":24899.38,"end":24901.38,"text":"現在不是要討論這一條"},{"start":24903.04,"end":24905.04,"text":"現在到第15條"},{"start":24905.04,"end":24907.04,"text":"到第15後的第"},{"start":24907.04,"end":24909.04,"text":"國民黨團的第5條了"},{"start":24911.26,"end":24913.26,"text":"好啦那沒關係那我現在回來第4條請教一下可以嗎主席"},{"start":24915.59,"end":24917.59,"text":"為什麼不可以"},{"start":24917.2,"end":24919.2,"text":"立法院是什麼決議"},{"start":24919.2,"end":24921.2,"text":"請問你們誰聽到的人這是什麼意思"},{"start":24921.2,"end":24923.2,"text":"你剛剛也在會議當中"},{"start":24923.2,"end":24925.2,"text":"你如果沒有在會議當中"},{"start":24925.2,"end":24927.2,"text":"剛剛已經會議當中"},{"start":24927.2,"end":24929.2,"text":"你也在這裡"},{"start":24929.2,"end":24931.2,"text":"對啊你已經從頭到尾"},{"start":24931.2,"end":24933.2,"text":"那個主席已經"},{"start":24933.2,"end":24935.2,"text":"有注意覺得你沒聽到嗎"},{"start":24935.2,"end":24937.2,"text":"讓我說明一下什麼可以叫量大價廉"},{"start":24937.2,"end":24939.2,"text":"分布性嘛"},{"start":24939.17,"end":24941.17,"text":"對我剛剛已經念完保留了"},{"start":24941.17,"end":24943.17,"text":"主席啊"},{"start":24942.58,"end":24944.58,"text":"你要這樣子念的話"},{"start":24944.58,"end":24946.58,"text":"你就直接每一條就念保留"},{"start":24946.58,"end":24948.58,"text":"我們不要在這裡花一整天的時間嘛"},{"start":24948.58,"end":24950.58,"text":"你除了過水以外你還是放水嘛"},{"start":24951.43,"end":24953.43,"text":"胡搞入瞎搞"},{"start":24954.73,"end":24956.73,"text":"我比你得分"},{"start":24956.73,"end":24958.73,"text":"你這樣練過就算了嗎"},{"start":24958.73,"end":24960.73,"text":"幫我們當什麼東西啊"},{"start":24960.72,"end":24962.72,"text":"我比你的財政委員會好一點"},{"start":24962.72,"end":24964.72,"text":"真的"},{"start":24966.93,"end":24968.93,"text":"你不要跟別人比啦"},{"start":24968.93,"end":24970.93,"text":"誰是財政委員會的"},{"start":24970.93,"end":24972.93,"text":"今天我們本來就是要認真討論啦"},{"start":24972.93,"end":24974.93,"text":"以前全專條例不就是這樣子嗎"},{"start":24974.93,"end":24976.93,"text":"全專條例怎麼樣"},{"start":24977.27,"end":24979.27,"text":"你們還不是拿全專條例來當你們的戰績"},{"start":24980.63,"end":24982.63,"text":"沒有啦"},{"start":24982.52,"end":24984.52,"text":"來國民黨農村集合第五條"},{"start":24984.52,"end":24986.52,"text":"請說明"},{"start":24986.52,"end":24988.52,"text":"請說明主席"},{"start":24989.08,"end":24991.08,"text":"請說明"},{"start":24990.58,"end":24992.58,"text":"白習剛剛的提問請說明請回答"},{"start":24993.88,"end":24995.88,"text":"剛剛賴世寶也回答了"},{"start":24995.88,"end":24997.88,"text":"聽不懂請說明"},{"start":25001.11,"end":25003.11,"text":"我不是國防部長"},{"start":25003.11,"end":25005.11,"text":"我也不是經濟部次長"},{"start":25005.11,"end":25007.11,"text":"我們一定要回答你"},{"start":25007.11,"end":25009.11,"text":"這個已經念過去的一個提案"},{"start":25009.11,"end":25011.11,"text":"已經是保留的"},{"start":25011.11,"end":25013.11,"text":"你要回去"},{"start":25012.93,"end":25014.93,"text":"大家講在一遍"},{"start":25014.93,"end":25016.93,"text":"立委彼此尊重好不好"},{"start":25016.93,"end":25018.93,"text":"我們是監督"},{"start":25018.93,"end":25020.93,"text":"這樣吵架就沒有意思了"},{"start":25020.93,"end":25022.93,"text":"我們是監督行政部門"},{"start":25022.93,"end":25024.93,"text":"我們是有權利"},{"start":25024.93,"end":25026.93,"text":"要求行政部門"},{"start":25026.93,"end":25028.93,"text":"做說明"},{"start":25028.93,"end":25030.93,"text":"所以你再兇再怎麼樣再尖銳"},{"start":25030.93,"end":25032.93,"text":"都應該去針對行政部門"},{"start":25032.93,"end":25034.93,"text":"針對立委之間"},{"start":25034.93,"end":25036.93,"text":"老實講這打通宅宅咧啦"},{"start":25036.93,"end":25038.93,"text":"只是在搞這裡"},{"start":25038.93,"end":25040.93,"text":"吵這個架沒有意思啦"},{"start":25040.93,"end":25042.93,"text":"可以支持嗎"},{"start":25046.41,"end":25048.41,"text":"這個就是阿爸啦"},{"start":25048.41,"end":25052.41,"text":"人家在提問你們就直接第六條第七條第八條就過去了"},{"start":25052.41,"end":25054.41,"text":"這就是阿爸嘛"},{"start":25054.41,"end":25056.41,"text":"我們現在說"},{"start":25056.41,"end":25060.41,"text":"我們還在進行國民黨黨堂提案第五條"},{"start":25060.41,"end":25062.41,"text":"這不很好"},{"start":25063.86,"end":25065.86,"text":"對國民黨黨團的第五條"},{"start":25065.86,"end":25067.86,"text":"一定要講嗎"},{"start":25067.64,"end":25069.64,"text":"對,那邊就說明了"},{"start":25070.61,"end":25072.61,"text":"這不用說明啦"},{"start":25074.05,"end":25076.05,"text":"那我來問一下"},{"start":25076.09,"end":25078.09,"text":"這個第五條"},{"start":25078.09,"end":25080.09,"text":"我來看一下現在講台灣調寶第十五頁"},{"start":25080.09,"end":25082.09,"text":"我知道現在我們的主席"},{"start":25082.09,"end":25084.09,"text":"辛吉如粉希望趕快能夠"},{"start":25084.09,"end":25086.09,"text":"早點"},{"start":25086.09,"end":25088.09,"text":"第五條"},{"start":25088.09,"end":25090.09,"text":"第五條"},{"start":25090.09,"end":25092.09,"text":"無人載具防衛"},{"start":25092.09,"end":25094.09,"text":"體系之規劃"},{"start":25094.09,"end":25096.09,"text":"應遵循分布式任性原則"},{"start":25096.09,"end":25098.09,"text":"我想念到這裡沒有人反對"},{"start":25098.09,"end":25100.09,"text":"避免集中部署或集中生產"},{"start":25100.09,"end":25102.09,"text":"我想這也沒有人想要集中"},{"start":25102.09,"end":25104.09,"text":"部署跟集中生產"},{"start":25104.09,"end":25106.09,"text":"俄羅斯也不會這樣做"},{"start":25106.09,"end":25108.09,"text":"但是第一款"},{"start":25108.09,"end":25110.09,"text":"無人載具自生產基地應分布於至少三個不同縣市"},{"start":25110.09,"end":25112.09,"text":"不得集中於單一地理區域"},{"start":25112.09,"end":25114.09,"text":"以降低遭受集中打擊之風險"},{"start":25114.09,"end":25116.09,"text":"講得很好啊"},{"start":25116.09,"end":25118.09,"text":"但是不知道怎麼定義啊"},{"start":25119.8,"end":25121.8,"text":"單一地理區域"},{"start":25121.67,"end":25123.67,"text":"屏東跟高雄算不算單一地理區"},{"start":25124.89,"end":25126.89,"text":"台南高雄屏東算不算單一地理區域"},{"start":25126.89,"end":25128.89,"text":"那如果分布在台南屏東"},{"start":25128.89,"end":25130.89,"text":"高雄三個縣市不同縣市"},{"start":25130.89,"end":25132.89,"text":"這樣有沒有算達成這個條文"},{"start":25132.89,"end":25134.89,"text":"所規定的要求"},{"start":25134.89,"end":25136.89,"text":"還是說"},{"start":25136.89,"end":25138.89,"text":"單一地理區域是什麼"},{"start":25138.89,"end":25140.89,"text":"我是覺得法律條文"},{"start":25140.89,"end":25142.89,"text":"如果是寫原則性的"},{"start":25142.89,"end":25144.89,"text":"指導是可以"},{"start":25144.89,"end":25146.89,"text":"法律條文顯成這樣子"},{"start":25146.89,"end":25148.89,"text":"我們真的不曉得未來如何去認定"},{"start":25148.89,"end":25150.89,"text":"他的有沒有依法執行"},{"start":25150.89,"end":25152.89,"text":"第二款無人載具自戰備"},{"start":25152.89,"end":25154.89,"text":"儲存因分散於不同據點"},{"start":25154.89,"end":25156.89,"text":"我想"},{"start":25157.17,"end":25159.17,"text":"不要說是我們顧部長當部長啦"},{"start":25160.14,"end":25162.14,"text":"現在"},{"start":25161.22,"end":25163.22,"text":"也不用像烏克蘭以前的蘇發部長"},{"start":25163.22,"end":25165.22,"text":"去當國防部長的樣子啦"},{"start":25165.12,"end":25167.12,"text":"任何只要看過好萊塢電影的都知道"},{"start":25167.12,"end":25169.12,"text":"戰備儲存怎麼可能不分散"},{"start":25170.51,"end":25172.51,"text":"至於單一儲存存量"},{"start":25172.51,"end":25174.51,"text":"不得超過總戰備存量的25%"},{"start":25174.51,"end":25176.51,"text":"我就不曉得這個"},{"start":25176.51,"end":25178.51,"text":"1%是怎麼推算出來的啦"},{"start":25178.51,"end":25180.51,"text":"第一個條文喔"},{"start":25180.51,"end":25182.51,"text":"要訂定喔 除了能夠明確可以執行之外"},{"start":25182.51,"end":25184.51,"text":"要告訴大家"},{"start":25184.51,"end":25186.51,"text":"那為什麼不是1% 為什麼不是1%"},{"start":25186.51,"end":25188.51,"text":"為什麼是1%"},{"start":25188.19,"end":25190.19,"text":"無人載具第三款無人載具操作及指揮系統"},{"start":25190.19,"end":25192.19,"text":"因建立分散式備援架構"},{"start":25192.19,"end":25194.19,"text":"從頭到尾都是分散分散再分散"},{"start":25194.19,"end":25196.19,"text":"確保單點失效不致"},{"start":25196.19,"end":25198.19,"text":"癱瘓整體作戰能力"},{"start":25199.67,"end":25201.67,"text":"這個有需要寫嗎"},{"start":25201.29,"end":25203.29,"text":"哪一個人當國防部長會去把無人載具"},{"start":25203.29,"end":25205.29,"text":"做集中式的"},{"start":25205.29,"end":25207.29,"text":"缺乏韌性的分布"},{"start":25207.29,"end":25209.29,"text":"所以這個好比在我們挑溫協啊"},{"start":25209.29,"end":25211.29,"text":"本預算之執行必須太陽從東邊"},{"start":25211.29,"end":25213.29,"text":"升起來才可以執行"},{"start":25214.03,"end":25216.03,"text":"太陽從東邊升起來不就是我本來就應該如此的嗎"},{"start":25216.03,"end":25218.03,"text":"還需要你挑溫協"},{"start":25218.03,"end":25220.03,"text":"本預..本..本條例之執行"},{"start":25220.03,"end":25222.03,"text":"必須是太陽從東邊升起來"},{"start":25223.43,"end":25225.43,"text":"所以我們是覺得今天"},{"start":25225.84,"end":25227.84,"text":"好我們來一度懷疑說"},{"start":25227.84,"end":25229.84,"text":"這個賴委員的版本"},{"start":25229.84,"end":25231.84,"text":"A版的部分感覺上之前"},{"start":25231.84,"end":25233.84,"text":"前幾條看起來有點道理"},{"start":25233.84,"end":25235.84,"text":"到國民黨的版本終於知道了"},{"start":25235.84,"end":25237.84,"text":"為什麼國民黨黨團版本出來之後"},{"start":25237.84,"end":25239.84,"text":"要趕快由賴斯巴爾委員推出"},{"start":25239.84,"end":25241.84,"text":"AB兩版因為國民黨黨團"},{"start":25241.84,"end":25243.84,"text":"版本說的是一句話"},{"start":25244.54,"end":25246.54,"text":"出師表啊"},{"start":25246.54,"end":25248.54,"text":"靈表剔氣不知所云啊"},{"start":25248.54,"end":25250.54,"text":"寫這些理所當然的事情放在條文裡面"},{"start":25250.54,"end":25252.54,"text":"你一個主決意就可以啦"},{"start":25252.54,"end":25254.54,"text":"立法院常常這種主決意啊理所當然的事情"},{"start":25254.54,"end":25256.54,"text":"再重申一遍"},{"start":25256.54,"end":25258.54,"text":"放在條文完全沒有必要"},{"start":25258.54,"end":25260.54,"text":"本席建議這第五條根本拿掉"},{"start":25261.56,"end":25263.56,"text":"來賴斯巴爾委員"},{"start":25265.07,"end":25267.07,"text":"我再回過來我覺得我們的"},{"start":25267.07,"end":25269.07,"text":"憲政大家能夠坐在這裡就是"},{"start":25269.07,"end":25271.07,"text":"我們的憲法給我們這樣的職權"},{"start":25271.07,"end":25273.07,"text":"我們職權"},{"start":25273.07,"end":25275.07,"text":"就是來監督行政部門"},{"start":25275.07,"end":25277.07,"text":"所以我就請教"},{"start":25277.07,"end":25279.07,"text":"我覺得這個答案不是叫國民黨團來回答"},{"start":25279.07,"end":25281.07,"text":"國民黨團提案已經寫出來了"},{"start":25281.07,"end":25283.07,"text":"不是叫我們回答我們沒有當家"},{"start":25283.07,"end":25285.07,"text":"請顧部長"},{"start":25285.07,"end":25287.07,"text":"表達意見第第五條"},{"start":25287.07,"end":25289.07,"text":"你能不能夠接受你告訴我們"},{"start":25289.07,"end":25291.07,"text":"就這樣子"},{"start":25291.07,"end":25293.07,"text":"你可以接受我們就不能接受我們就"},{"start":25293.07,"end":25295.07,"text":"就這樣子"},{"start":25295.07,"end":25297.07,"text":"太陽從後面升出來你能不能接受"},{"start":25297.07,"end":25299.07,"text":"太陽從後面升出來你能不能接受"},{"start":25299.07,"end":25301.07,"text":"國民黨團具體來報主席"},{"start":25301.07,"end":25303.07,"text":"我具體要求國民黨團"},{"start":25303.07,"end":25305.07,"text":"要跟我們說"},{"start":25305.07,"end":25307.07,"text":"你的國防部的立場"},{"start":25307.07,"end":25309.07,"text":"可以接受國民黨團第五條"},{"start":25309.07,"end":25311.07,"text":"可不可以"},{"start":25310.33,"end":25312.33,"text":"請部長"},{"start":25317.62,"end":25319.62,"text":"主席 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要那個"},{"start":25803.88,"end":25805.88,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":25805.88,"end":25807.88,"text":"五點可以刷嗎"},{"start":25808.6,"end":25810.6,"text":"四點可以刷嗎"},{"start":25810.61,"end":25812.61,"text":"哎"},{"start":25813.93,"end":25815.93,"text":"哎"},{"start":25816.66,"end":25818.66,"text":"嗯"},{"start":25817.32,"end":25819.32,"text":"四點半"},{"start":25821.56,"end":25823.56,"text":"啊"},{"start":25823.48,"end":25825.48,"text":"啊"},{"start":25826.54,"end":25828.54,"text":"你的狗叫太大聲了"},{"start":25828.54,"end":25830.54,"text":"好不好"},{"start":25830.54,"end":25832.54,"text":"你不要乖一點"},{"start":25832.54,"end":25834.54,"text":"你的狗叫太大聲了"},{"start":25835.09,"end":25837.09,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":25860.38,"end":25862.38,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":25862.76,"end":25864.76,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":25864.76,"end":25866.76,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":25866.89,"end":25868.89,"text":"好等一下"},{"start":25873.27,"end":25875.27,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":25875.46,"end":25877.46,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":25883.82,"end":25885.82,"text":"好啦我就覺得"},{"start":25885.82,"end":25887.82,"text":"他們也無心"},{"start":25887.82,"end":25889.82,"text":"無心要出"},{"start":25889.82,"end":25891.82,"text":"就把它念完每個都反對"},{"start":25891.82,"end":25893.82,"text":"就這個問題"},{"start":25893.82,"end":25895.82,"text":"最後只能一個條款"},{"start":25895.82,"end":25897.82,"text":"我們只要付第七條"},{"start":25898.58,"end":25900.58,"text":"我們只要付第七條"},{"start":25909.9,"end":25911.9,"text":"好根據剛剛的討論"},{"start":25911.9,"end":25913.9,"text":"國民黨黨同提案的第五條"},{"start":25913.9,"end":25915.9,"text":"看起來是沒有達成共識"},{"start":25915.9,"end":25917.9,"text":"所以我們也是先於保留"},{"start":25920.08,"end":25922.08,"text":"那接下來我們一併討論的是"},{"start":25922.08,"end":25924.08,"text":"國民黨團提案第六條"},{"start":25924.08,"end":25926.08,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第七條"},{"start":25926.08,"end":25928.08,"text":"賴氏保委員的第十四條"},{"start":25928.08,"end":25930.08,"text":"宗嘉兵委員第十二條"},{"start":25930.08,"end":25932.08,"text":"以及王定宇委員"},{"start":25932.08,"end":25934.08,"text":"提案的第十一條"},{"start":25934.08,"end":25936.08,"text":"主要這邊大概就是"},{"start":25936.08,"end":25938.08,"text":"針對這個測試的一個場域"},{"start":25938.08,"end":25940.08,"text":"針對這個測試的一個場域"},{"start":25940.08,"end":25942.08,"text":"針對這個測試的一個場域"},{"start":25942.08,"end":25944.08,"text":"那麼請經濟部跟國防部這邊"},{"start":25944.08,"end":25946.08,"text":"那麼請經濟部跟國防部這邊"},{"start":25948.85,"end":25950.85,"text":"就這些版本的說明"},{"start":25951.33,"end":25953.33,"text":"我們只要付"},{"start":25952.8,"end":25954.8,"text":"可不可行"},{"start":25954.8,"end":25956.8,"text":"那個等一下對不起"},{"start":25956.8,"end":25958.8,"text":"國民黨的第六條"},{"start":25958.8,"end":25960.8,"text":"因為他談的是國防部"},{"start":25960.8,"end":25962.8,"text":"要去設立測試場域"},{"start":25962.8,"end":25964.8,"text":"所以應該是要請國防部回答才對"},{"start":25964.8,"end":25966.8,"text":"這跟經濟部沒有關係"},{"start":25966.8,"end":25968.8,"text":"因為我們的版本就是經濟部"},{"start":25968.8,"end":25970.8,"text":"就國防部我們是一併"},{"start":25972.53,"end":25974.53,"text":"規劃無人機的測試場域"},{"start":25974.53,"end":25976.53,"text":"是經濟部規劃嗎"},{"start":25976.53,"end":25978.53,"text":"對啊我們這邊是有"},{"start":25978.52,"end":25980.52,"text":"應該是交通部也有關係"},{"start":25981.72,"end":25983.72,"text":"那交通部這邊有來嗎"},{"start":25983.72,"end":25985.72,"text":"我是不是"},{"start":25985.72,"end":25987.72,"text":"我是不是要說明一下"},{"start":25987.72,"end":25989.72,"text":"就是說有關剛提到這幾條"},{"start":25989.72,"end":25991.72,"text":"事實上在我們的無人載具產業"},{"start":25991.72,"end":25993.72,"text":"事實上在我們的無人載具產業"},{"start":25993.6,"end":25995.6,"text":"發展統籌型計畫裡面"},{"start":25995.6,"end":25997.6,"text":"都已經有納進來了"},{"start":25997.6,"end":25999.6,"text":"那目前也已經有盤點"},{"start":25999.6,"end":26001.6,"text":"多處無人載具的測試場域"},{"start":26001.6,"end":26003.6,"text":"那後續是由交通部跟國防部會"},{"start":26003.6,"end":26005.6,"text":"按照最新的盤點"},{"start":26005.6,"end":26007.6,"text":"盤點的結果跟場域的功能"},{"start":26007.6,"end":26009.6,"text":"還有實際的需求"},{"start":26009.6,"end":26011.6,"text":"持續來規劃建置"},{"start":26011.6,"end":26013.6,"text":"那這個部分其實行政院"},{"start":26013.6,"end":26015.6,"text":"副院長也有一個"},{"start":26015.6,"end":26017.6,"text":"這個跨部會的一個專案"},{"start":26017.6,"end":26019.6,"text":"會議來統籌協調"},{"start":26019.6,"end":26021.6,"text":"所以"},{"start":26021.6,"end":26023.6,"text":"目前我們"},{"start":26023.6,"end":26025.6,"text":"既然已經有這樣的機制"},{"start":26025.6,"end":26027.6,"text":"然後再加上說目前我們還有一個"},{"start":26027.6,"end":26029.6,"text":"無人載具科技"},{"start":26029.6,"end":26031.6,"text":"創新實驗條例"},{"start":26031.6,"end":26033.6,"text":"也可以來提供監理殺核"},{"start":26033.6,"end":26035.6,"text":"然後如果"},{"start":26035.6,"end":26037.6,"text":"業界有需要的話"},{"start":26037.6,"end":26039.6,"text":"也可以來跟經濟部這邊來申請"},{"start":26039.6,"end":26041.6,"text":"那我們會做跨部會的一個審查"},{"start":26041.6,"end":26043.6,"text":"那等於核准期間"},{"start":26043.6,"end":26045.6,"text":"及場域內來適用"},{"start":26045.6,"end":26047.6,"text":"經核准的這個"},{"start":26047.6,"end":26049.6,"text":"法規調試"},{"start":26049.6,"end":26051.6,"text":"那這部分也不需要另立"},{"start":26051.6,"end":26053.6,"text":"另外立法規範"},{"start":26053.6,"end":26055.6,"text":"以上"},{"start":26058.08,"end":26060.08,"text":"好 國防部"},{"start":26064.39,"end":26066.39,"text":"主席 各位委員"},{"start":26066.39,"end":26068.39,"text":"那個我想第一個國民黨"},{"start":26068.39,"end":26070.39,"text":"團體案的說國防部要會同"},{"start":26070.39,"end":26072.39,"text":"地方政府 我想"},{"start":26072.39,"end":26074.39,"text":"就這個部分我們難以想像"},{"start":26074.39,"end":26076.39,"text":"就是說國防部有任何的立場"},{"start":26076.39,"end":26078.39,"text":"可以來就這個"},{"start":26078.39,"end":26080.39,"text":"涉及到跨中央各部會"},{"start":26080.39,"end":26082.39,"text":"的這個部分單純"},{"start":26082.39,"end":26084.39,"text":"由國防部來會同地方政府"},{"start":26084.39,"end":26086.39,"text":"來就本條例第五條所定的"},{"start":26086.39,"end":26088.39,"text":"不同地理區域來規劃至少"},{"start":26088.39,"end":26090.39,"text":"三處經用共識"},{"start":26090.39,"end":26092.39,"text":"共用測試的這個場合"},{"start":26092.39,"end":26094.39,"text":"沒有 我想這涉及到相當"},{"start":26094.39,"end":26096.39,"text":"多的部會"},{"start":26096.39,"end":26098.39,"text":"這是行政院層級的"},{"start":26098.39,"end":26100.39,"text":"部分不可能由國防部直接"},{"start":26100.39,"end":26102.39,"text":"跟地方政府來做"},{"start":26102.39,"end":26104.39,"text":"那有關這個民眾黨團所提的"},{"start":26104.39,"end":26106.39,"text":"國防部應盤點適當軍事演習"},{"start":26106.39,"end":26108.39,"text":"或軍事線作為軍用無人機"},{"start":26108.39,"end":26110.39,"text":"系統專門測試場域"},{"start":26110.39,"end":26112.39,"text":"我想這個部分如果說是國防部"},{"start":26112.39,"end":26114.39,"text":"專門作為軍用測試場域"},{"start":26114.39,"end":26116.39,"text":"我認為也不以立法的方式"},{"start":26116.39,"end":26118.39,"text":"來覓定在這個地方"},{"start":26118.39,"end":26120.39,"text":"這個是並不適當的"},{"start":26120.39,"end":26122.39,"text":"立法的模式"},{"start":26124.06,"end":26126.06,"text":"國防部就表示意見到這裡"},{"start":26128.01,"end":26130.01,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":26130.01,"end":26132.01,"text":"請中央辯委員"},{"start":26131.54,"end":26133.54,"text":"主席我們現在看到條文6到16及17"},{"start":26133.54,"end":26135.54,"text":"我真的也是很"},{"start":26135.54,"end":26137.54,"text":"訝異"},{"start":26137.28,"end":26139.28,"text":"我的版本第12條的測試場域"},{"start":26139.28,"end":26141.28,"text":"居然跟"},{"start":26140.67,"end":26142.67,"text":"國民黨的第6條和民眾黨的第7條"},{"start":26142.67,"end":26144.67,"text":"放在一起"},{"start":26144.67,"end":26146.67,"text":"其實內容是大相徑庭"},{"start":26146.67,"end":26148.67,"text":"剛剛邱委員問我說這個測試場域你怎麼有測試場域"},{"start":26148.67,"end":26150.67,"text":"這就是主席在上午的時候"},{"start":26150.67,"end":26152.67,"text":"並沒有做分流的結果"},{"start":26152.67,"end":26154.67,"text":"我是第12條"},{"start":26154.67,"end":26156.67,"text":"但是第12條呢第一段就"},{"start":26156.67,"end":26158.67,"text":"第一項就是說委員會因會同"},{"start":26158.67,"end":26160.67,"text":"相關目的事業主管機關"},{"start":26160.67,"end":26162.67,"text":"與本條例"},{"start":26162.67,"end":26164.67,"text":"施行期間 好"},{"start":26164.67,"end":26166.67,"text":"什麼委員會"},{"start":26166.67,"end":26168.67,"text":"沒天沒老的蹦出來一個委員會"},{"start":26168.67,"end":26170.67,"text":"我剛剛不開心剛剛部部長把這個委員會說成是以為"},{"start":26170.67,"end":26172.67,"text":"我要求國防部做這件事情 沒有"},{"start":26172.67,"end":26174.67,"text":"這個委員會要看到"},{"start":26174.67,"end":26176.67,"text":"我的條文 條文對到"},{"start":26176.67,"end":26178.67,"text":"第28條"},{"start":26178.67,"end":26180.67,"text":"我的條文第三條就寫"},{"start":26180.67,"end":26182.67,"text":"行政院因設無人"},{"start":26182.67,"end":26184.67,"text":"載具自主發展委員會"},{"start":26184.67,"end":26186.67,"text":"簡稱委員會 你總不能簡稱"},{"start":26186.67,"end":26188.67,"text":"無人委員會吧 無人委員會就沒有人來啦"},{"start":26188.67,"end":26190.67,"text":"簡稱委員會 這個委員會"},{"start":26190.67,"end":26192.67,"text":"統籌協調無人載具"},{"start":26192.67,"end":26194.67,"text":"產業發展 採購及"},{"start":26194.67,"end":26196.67,"text":"本條例之相關政策"},{"start":26196.67,"end":26198.67,"text":"協調這些政策 計畫"},{"start":26198.67,"end":26200.67,"text":"以及跨機關事項"},{"start":26200.67,"end":26202.67,"text":"並就各機關推動進行管考"},{"start":26202.67,"end":26204.67,"text":"它就像是一個行政院"},{"start":26204.67,"end":26206.67,"text":"層級的這個專案小組"},{"start":26206.67,"end":26208.67,"text":"只是說有條文明文規定"},{"start":26208.67,"end":26210.67,"text":"要"},{"start":26209.69,"end":26211.69,"text":"訂定這樣的一個委員會"},{"start":26211.69,"end":26213.69,"text":"委員會之組成任務"},{"start":26213.69,"end":26215.69,"text":"運作方式及利益回避 看到沒有"},{"start":26215.69,"end":26217.69,"text":"保密義務"},{"start":26217.69,"end":26219.69,"text":"國家安全查核機制"},{"start":26219.69,"end":26221.69,"text":"由行政院另以辦法定制"},{"start":26221.69,"end":26223.69,"text":"本席的版本很清楚"},{"start":26224.62,"end":26226.62,"text":"本席的版本不只是支持行政院"},{"start":26226.62,"end":26228.62,"text":"那三款無人機的"},{"start":26228.62,"end":26230.62,"text":"兩千一百億的特別預算採購"},{"start":26230.62,"end":26232.62,"text":"本席的版本當中"},{"start":26232.62,"end":26234.62,"text":"也認為行政院應該有一個"},{"start":26234.62,"end":26236.62,"text":"中央層級的"},{"start":26236.62,"end":26238.62,"text":"行政院層級的協調機制"},{"start":26238.62,"end":26240.62,"text":"這個委員會要做什麼事情"},{"start":26240.62,"end":26242.62,"text":"這個委員會要做事情 就在我"},{"start":26242.62,"end":26244.62,"text":"目前條文對照表第十六頁的"},{"start":26244.62,"end":26246.62,"text":"第十二條的測試場域"},{"start":26246.62,"end":26248.62,"text":"這個測試場域看起來也在講"},{"start":26248.62,"end":26250.62,"text":"跟國民黨的第六條"},{"start":26250.62,"end":26252.62,"text":"民眾黨的第五條 第七條也很像 不一樣"},{"start":26252.62,"end":26254.62,"text":"他這裡寫說"},{"start":26254.62,"end":26256.62,"text":"委員會應該"},{"start":26256.62,"end":26258.62,"text":"要去積極的化設或指定"},{"start":26258.62,"end":26260.62,"text":"無人載具專屬的入獄水域"},{"start":26260.62,"end":26262.62,"text":"及空域的實證"},{"start":26262.62,"end":26264.62,"text":"測試場所"},{"start":26264.19,"end":26266.19,"text":"為什麼 因為目前"},{"start":26266.19,"end":26268.19,"text":"我們無人載具產業他們遇到了"},{"start":26268.19,"end":26270.19,"text":"很多水域"},{"start":26270.19,"end":26272.19,"text":"有航空法 空域有航空法"},{"start":26272.19,"end":26274.19,"text":"入獄還有所謂的道安條例"},{"start":26274.19,"end":26276.19,"text":"這些"},{"start":26276.19,"end":26278.19,"text":"那前項的測試第二項"},{"start":26278.19,"end":26280.19,"text":"我的第二項寫前項的測試場域"},{"start":26280.19,"end":26282.19,"text":"得跨越二以上直轄"},{"start":26282.19,"end":26284.19,"text":"市縣市行政區域"},{"start":26284.19,"end":26286.19,"text":"或其臨接的海域"},{"start":26286.19,"end":26288.19,"text":"我跟大家報告一下"},{"start":26288.19,"end":26290.19,"text":"目前長城的無人載具如果從"},{"start":26290.19,"end":26292.19,"text":"路上要飛到海上 他有可能"},{"start":26292.19,"end":26294.19,"text":"所以我們高屏西 高雄跟屏東"},{"start":26294.19,"end":26296.19,"text":"他的空域"},{"start":26296.19,"end":26298.19,"text":"目前如果是屬於"},{"start":26298.19,"end":26300.19,"text":"民用的階段"},{"start":26300.19,"end":26302.19,"text":"是屬於農噴機也好"},{"start":26302.19,"end":26304.19,"text":"空拍機也好 分別由高雄市政府"},{"start":26304.19,"end":26306.19,"text":"跟屏東市政府來核定"},{"start":26306.19,"end":26308.19,"text":"那我一個高屏西上的空域到底是要跟誰申請"},{"start":26308.19,"end":26310.19,"text":"我跨兩個縣市我要跟誰申請"},{"start":26310.19,"end":26312.19,"text":"這都是目前產業界遇到的問題"},{"start":26312.19,"end":26314.19,"text":"所以我們才認為"},{"start":26314.19,"end":26316.19,"text":"為了發展無人載具產業"},{"start":26316.19,"end":26318.19,"text":"像這樣的測試場域"},{"start":26318.19,"end":26320.19,"text":"不管是入海空"},{"start":26320.19,"end":26322.19,"text":"我們應該有一個行政院層級的協調機制"},{"start":26322.19,"end":26324.19,"text":"來協助"},{"start":26324.19,"end":26326.19,"text":"就這樣的測試廊套來畫設"},{"start":26326.19,"end":26328.19,"text":"而且這個委員會在畫設的時候"},{"start":26328.19,"end":26330.19,"text":"他要去會商相關的"},{"start":26330.19,"end":26332.19,"text":"地方政府 是基於這樣的思考"},{"start":26332.19,"end":26334.19,"text":"我們尊重現在"},{"start":26334.19,"end":26336.19,"text":"民用航空法當中的無人機專章"},{"start":26336.19,"end":26338.19,"text":"所設定的空域主管"},{"start":26338.19,"end":26340.19,"text":"地方主管機關的"},{"start":26340.19,"end":26342.19,"text":"權限 我們希望"},{"start":26342.19,"end":26344.19,"text":"不要受制於這個 不然的話"},{"start":26344.19,"end":26346.19,"text":"我從高屏西 高雄管還是屏東管"},{"start":26346.19,"end":26348.19,"text":"我從高屏西"},{"start":26348.19,"end":26350.19,"text":"從出海口 出到小琉球"},{"start":26350.19,"end":26352.19,"text":"請問我出那個港面的時候"},{"start":26352.19,"end":26354.19,"text":"我會經過什麼 我會經過交通部"},{"start":26354.19,"end":26356.19,"text":"那個航港局"},{"start":26356.19,"end":26358.19,"text":"他們管理的這個漁港"},{"start":26358.19,"end":26360.19,"text":"交通港 觀光港 那我要不要去"},{"start":26360.19,"end":26362.19,"text":"跟他申請"},{"start":26362.19,"end":26364.19,"text":"所以我這個條文當中"},{"start":26364.19,"end":26366.19,"text":"很清楚的是在講測試場域"},{"start":26366.19,"end":26368.19,"text":"需要有一個委員會"},{"start":26368.19,"end":26370.19,"text":"行政院層級的來協調各相關主管機關"},{"start":26370.19,"end":26372.19,"text":"這是有實務上的需要"},{"start":26372.19,"end":26374.19,"text":"但是我們看國民黨跟民主黨是甚麼呢"},{"start":26374.19,"end":26376.19,"text":"他說國防部應會同"},{"start":26376.19,"end":26378.19,"text":"剛剛顧問長說了國防部要怎麼去會同"},{"start":26378.19,"end":26380.19,"text":"而且是甚麼 針對他的第五條"},{"start":26380.19,"end":26382.19,"text":"所訂的不同地理區域"},{"start":26382.19,"end":26384.19,"text":"規劃至少三處的居民共用"},{"start":26384.19,"end":26386.19,"text":"測試場所 怎麼把這個"},{"start":26386.19,"end":26388.19,"text":"測試場所的義務 規則"},{"start":26388.19,"end":26390.19,"text":"給國防部按照第五條的方式"},{"start":26390.19,"end":26392.19,"text":"來設置 這根本就是莫名其妙"},{"start":26392.19,"end":26394.19,"text":"本末倒置的事情"},{"start":26394.19,"end":26396.19,"text":"我們是要幫助產業解除智庫"},{"start":26396.19,"end":26398.19,"text":"解除束縛"},{"start":26398.19,"end":26400.19,"text":"不是莫名其妙要求國防部去做他"},{"start":26400.19,"end":26402.19,"text":"跟他一個戰備訓練無關的事務"},{"start":26402.19,"end":26404.19,"text":"所以國民黨這個版本跟本席的"},{"start":26404.19,"end":26406.19,"text":"第二次要放在一起 我真的覺得莫名其妙"},{"start":26407.31,"end":26409.31,"text":"這就是因為我們版本沒有分流"},{"start":26409.31,"end":26411.31,"text":"造成了本席的條文"},{"start":26411.31,"end":26413.31,"text":"跟國民黨那個版本第五條的"},{"start":26413.31,"end":26415.31,"text":"串在一起 我的應該跟第三條串在一起"},{"start":26415.31,"end":26417.31,"text":"再來講民眾黨團好了"},{"start":26417.31,"end":26419.31,"text":"也是一樣 經濟部應會"},{"start":26419.31,"end":26421.31,"text":"從相關主管機關去劃設"},{"start":26421.31,"end":26423.31,"text":"無人機測試場域"},{"start":26423.31,"end":26425.31,"text":"測試走廊及示範區"},{"start":26425.31,"end":26427.31,"text":"好啦 那怎麼做 如果真的要認真"},{"start":26427.31,"end":26429.31,"text":"來講 本席的寫法很清楚"},{"start":26429.31,"end":26431.31,"text":"現在遇到甚麼問題"},{"start":26431.31,"end":26433.31,"text":"遇到跨入海空的問題"},{"start":26433.31,"end":26435.31,"text":"遇到跨縣市轄區的問題"},{"start":26435.31,"end":26437.31,"text":"這些才是真正的問題"},{"start":26437.31,"end":26439.31,"text":"那麼如果民眾黨的版本都要寫"},{"start":26439.31,"end":26441.31,"text":"還不如用我的版本"},{"start":26441.31,"end":26443.31,"text":"還有寫國防部應盤點適當的軍事演習"},{"start":26443.31,"end":26445.31,"text":"或軍事訓練場所"},{"start":26445.31,"end":26447.31,"text":"作為軍用無人機測試的系統的專門測試場"},{"start":26447.73,"end":26449.73,"text":"國防部要怎麼去測試他的軍用無人機"},{"start":26449.73,"end":26451.73,"text":"還要你立法給他全責嗎"},{"start":26453.03,"end":26455.03,"text":"還需要嗎"},{"start":26455.39,"end":26457.39,"text":"我們都覺得"},{"start":26456.6,"end":26458.6,"text":"我甚至有跟他們說 好啊"},{"start":26458.6,"end":26460.6,"text":"如果真的國防部要去測哪裡"},{"start":26460.6,"end":26462.6,"text":"最好"},{"start":26461.29,"end":26463.29,"text":"到菲律賓 到蘇比克灣"},{"start":26463.29,"end":26465.29,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":26465.29,"end":26467.29,"text":"因為台灣的空域水域"},{"start":26467.29,"end":26469.29,"text":"無線電池波訊號太複雜"},{"start":26469.29,"end":26471.29,"text":"我們很難去測試"},{"start":26471.29,"end":26473.29,"text":"要一個乾淨的場域"},{"start":26473.29,"end":26475.29,"text":"菲律賓 哇 海域很多"},{"start":26475.29,"end":26477.29,"text":"我們乾脆到哪裡去測"},{"start":26477.29,"end":26479.29,"text":"到菲律賓去測"},{"start":26479.29,"end":26481.29,"text":"那國防部到菲律賓去測"},{"start":26481.29,"end":26483.29,"text":"還要你這個條例準他嗎"},{"start":26481.27,"end":26483.27,"text":"我們目前的國防戰備有他的高度機密性跟機動性"},{"start":26483.27,"end":26485.27,"text":"你還把這個寫下來"},{"start":26485.27,"end":26487.27,"text":"表面上是說國防"},{"start":26487.27,"end":26489.27,"text":"國防部要匯同地方政府"},{"start":26489.27,"end":26491.27,"text":"荒謬"},{"start":26491.26,"end":26493.26,"text":"民眾黨的版本說經濟部要匯同地方"},{"start":26493.26,"end":26495.26,"text":"然後國防部"},{"start":26495.26,"end":26497.26,"text":"還要演習場試運"},{"start":26497.26,"end":26499.26,"text":"還要有這個部分的授權"},{"start":26499.26,"end":26501.26,"text":"其實啊"},{"start":26501.26,"end":26503.26,"text":"如果國防部真的需要他們在軍事要在"},{"start":26503.26,"end":26505.26,"text":"基地條例裡面"},{"start":26505.26,"end":26507.26,"text":"他們自然的去籌措調度"},{"start":26507.26,"end":26509.26,"text":"我們要解決的不是裝模作樣"},{"start":26509.26,"end":26511.26,"text":"去限制我們的國防發展"},{"start":26511.26,"end":26513.26,"text":"而是要真正的去讓產業"},{"start":26513.26,"end":26515.26,"text":"它目前遇到的限制得以排除"},{"start":26515.26,"end":26517.26,"text":"所以我的條文"},{"start":26517.26,"end":26519.26,"text":"是要排除現在的不當限制"},{"start":26519.26,"end":26521.26,"text":"國眾兩黨呢"},{"start":26521.26,"end":26523.26,"text":"是要額外加諸國防部"},{"start":26523.26,"end":26525.26,"text":"在戰備訓練以外莫名其妙的任務"},{"start":26525.26,"end":26527.26,"text":"我覺得呢是很大的差別不同"},{"start":26527.26,"end":26529.26,"text":"本席反對國民黨跟民眾黨的版本"},{"start":26532.01,"end":26534.01,"text":"前王安祥委員"},{"start":26534.01,"end":26536.01,"text":"剛剛那個中委員說了"},{"start":26536.01,"end":26538.01,"text":"把國民黨跟民眾黨都混在一起"},{"start":26538.01,"end":26540.01,"text":"那我解釋一下民眾黨的版本"},{"start":26540.01,"end":26542.01,"text":"那第一項跟第二項"},{"start":26542.01,"end":26544.01,"text":"基本上就是我們現在所謂的測試場域"},{"start":26544.01,"end":26546.01,"text":"還有測試場域"},{"start":26546.01,"end":26548.01,"text":"跟示範區的一個制度"},{"start":26548.01,"end":26550.01,"text":"所以經濟部這邊"},{"start":26550.01,"end":26552.01,"text":"剛剛次長也說了現在已經有一些"},{"start":26552.01,"end":26554.01,"text":"過去的一些斷幣"},{"start":26554.01,"end":26556.01,"text":"以供可以執行"},{"start":26556.01,"end":26558.01,"text":"那國防部這邊我們寫的是盤點"},{"start":26558.01,"end":26560.01,"text":"盤點還有一些測試的場域"},{"start":26560.01,"end":26562.01,"text":"那中委員說了我覺得菲律賓這邊也是非常好的一個場域"},{"start":26562.01,"end":26564.01,"text":"我們只是說盤點而已"},{"start":26564.01,"end":26566.01,"text":"沒有盤點而已啦"},{"start":26566.01,"end":26568.01,"text":"那基本上剛剛中委員講到的"},{"start":26568.01,"end":26570.01,"text":"我們都寫在第三項裡面"},{"start":26570.01,"end":26572.01,"text":"也就是說如果在測試的時候"},{"start":26572.01,"end":26574.01,"text":"會有一些法律上"},{"start":26574.01,"end":26576.01,"text":"適用的問題"},{"start":26576.01,"end":26578.01,"text":"所以中央疾管得排除或調整"},{"start":26578.01,"end":26580.01,"text":"部分法規的限制"},{"start":26580.01,"end":26582.01,"text":"所以剛剛中央編委員講了"},{"start":26582.01,"end":26584.01,"text":"我們通通都在我們的第三項裡面"},{"start":26584.01,"end":26586.01,"text":"而且我們也除了這個"},{"start":26586.01,"end":26588.01,"text":"排除之外呢"},{"start":26588.01,"end":26590.01,"text":"法規裡面還特別寫到"},{"start":26590.01,"end":26592.01,"text":"有關於飛行操作安全性能的"},{"start":26592.01,"end":26594.01,"text":"回饋的機制"},{"start":26594.01,"end":26596.01,"text":"那作為日後法規的修正"},{"start":26596.01,"end":26598.01,"text":"或者是真正推動的參考"},{"start":26601.4,"end":26603.4,"text":"好"},{"start":26603.4,"end":26605.4,"text":"因為看起來就是"},{"start":26605.4,"end":26607.4,"text":"但是法委員救你的"},{"start":26607.66,"end":26609.66,"text":"OK好了"},{"start":26609.15,"end":26611.15,"text":"我還是希望部長能夠表個態啦"},{"start":26611.15,"end":26613.15,"text":"這個這一條"},{"start":26613.15,"end":26615.15,"text":"什麼場域之類的"},{"start":26615.63,"end":26617.63,"text":"剛才美國部長中央編委員"},{"start":26617.63,"end":26619.63,"text":"自己的血漏就一堆了"},{"start":26619.63,"end":26621.63,"text":"你比較一下跟民眾黨沒有差很多"},{"start":26621.63,"end":26623.63,"text":"所以我覺得"},{"start":26625.63,"end":26627.63,"text":"我覺得每一個法案"},{"start":26627.63,"end":26629.63,"text":"因為我們都尊重每一個委員的提案"},{"start":26629.63,"end":26631.63,"text":"不管你喜不喜歡"},{"start":26631.63,"end":26633.63,"text":"尊重"},{"start":26633.63,"end":26635.63,"text":"然後提出來的話"},{"start":26635.63,"end":26637.63,"text":"應該首先問一下行政部門的意見"},{"start":26637.63,"end":26639.63,"text":"畢竟他大官嘛"},{"start":26639.63,"end":26641.63,"text":"我們先問一下可不可以"},{"start":26641.63,"end":26643.63,"text":"郭部長要不要針對這一條"},{"start":26643.63,"end":26645.63,"text":"有關於倡議的問題"},{"start":26645.63,"end":26647.63,"text":"有關於國民黨團、民眾黨團"},{"start":26647.63,"end":26649.63,"text":"還有其他委員的意見"},{"start":26649.63,"end":26651.63,"text":"那麼你到底你的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":26651.63,"end":26653.63,"text":"不要列你表示意見嗎"},{"start":26655.38,"end":26657.38,"text":"那"},{"start":26657,"end":26659,"text":"部長你要回答嗎"},{"start":26660.45,"end":26662.45,"text":"部長您回答之前"},{"start":26662.45,"end":26664.45,"text":"他剛剛有"},{"start":26664.45,"end":26666.45,"text":"他其實剛剛有回答"},{"start":26666.45,"end":26668.45,"text":"他前面有回答"},{"start":26668.01,"end":26670.01,"text":"讓我收回來"},{"start":26670.01,"end":26672.01,"text":"我只是講"},{"start":26672.01,"end":26674.01,"text":"比較一下"},{"start":26674.01,"end":26676.01,"text":"你們現在中委一直罵民眾黨團"},{"start":26676.01,"end":26678.01,"text":"你要看一下你們兩個人的提案"},{"start":26678.01,"end":26680.01,"text":"不過我們跟老實講"},{"start":26680.01,"end":26682.01,"text":"沒有差很多"},{"start":26682.28,"end":26684.28,"text":"我請教一下"},{"start":26684.28,"end":26686.28,"text":"我請問一下"},{"start":26686.28,"end":26688.28,"text":"我還是要請教一下郭部長"},{"start":26688.28,"end":26690.28,"text":"國民黨團的提案寫了這個"},{"start":26690.28,"end":26692.28,"text":"要規劃至少"},{"start":26692.28,"end":26694.28,"text":"三處軍民共用"},{"start":26694.28,"end":26696.28,"text":"測試場域"},{"start":26696.28,"end":26698.28,"text":"供軍方及民間"},{"start":26698.28,"end":26700.28,"text":"業者共同使用"},{"start":26701.57,"end":26703.57,"text":"請問那什麼叫軍民共用"},{"start":26703.57,"end":26705.57,"text":"是軍為主、民為輔"},{"start":26705.57,"end":26707.57,"text":"還是民為主、軍為輔"},{"start":26707.57,"end":26709.57,"text":"然後這個測試場域"},{"start":26709.57,"end":26711.57,"text":"還要進行無人載具的"},{"start":26711.57,"end":26713.57,"text":"飛控、航空、抗干擾"},{"start":26713.57,"end":26715.57,"text":"跟作戰模擬測試"},{"start":26719.46,"end":26721.46,"text":"就國防安全來講"},{"start":26721.46,"end":26723.46,"text":"作戰模擬測試可以在"},{"start":26723.46,"end":26725.46,"text":"民間業者的前面"},{"start":26725.46,"end":26727.46,"text":"去做作戰模擬測試嗎"},{"start":26729.92,"end":26733.92,"text":"那特別寫作戰模擬測試的用意是什麼"},{"start":26734.32,"end":26736.32,"text":"把它明定在你們的法條裡頭"},{"start":26736.32,"end":26738.32,"text":"又要規劃三處的測試場"},{"start":26738.32,"end":26740.32,"text":"然後又把測試的內容"},{"start":26742.69,"end":26744.69,"text":"跟對象都要把它寫出來"},{"start":26746.68,"end":26748.68,"text":"為的是什麼"},{"start":26748.68,"end":26750.68,"text":"是要讓誰知道"},{"start":26750.02,"end":26752.02,"text":"是要讓誰看"},{"start":26752.02,"end":26754.02,"text":"是要洩漏什麼樣的國家機密"},{"start":26754.02,"end":26756.02,"text":"或者是牽著這個機會"},{"start":26756.02,"end":26758.02,"text":"直接把國防安全"},{"start":26758.02,"end":26760.02,"text":"直接洩漏"},{"start":26760.11,"end":26762.11,"text":"寫這個法條的用意是什麼"},{"start":26762.11,"end":26764.11,"text":"其實這個來問國防部長沒道理"},{"start":26764.11,"end":26766.11,"text":"因為這法條不是他寫的"},{"start":26766.11,"end":26768.11,"text":"但是我問國民黨黨團"},{"start":26768.11,"end":26770.11,"text":"也問不出一個所以然來"},{"start":26770.11,"end":26772.11,"text":"因為你們這法條也不知道從哪裡來的"},{"start":26772.43,"end":26774.43,"text":"到底是不是你們自己寫的"},{"start":26774.43,"end":26776.43,"text":"不知道會不會是有人"},{"start":26776.43,"end":26778.43,"text":"交給你們的我覺得這是大有可能"},{"start":26778.43,"end":26780.43,"text":"那有人交給你們"},{"start":26780.43,"end":26782.43,"text":"是誰交給你們"},{"start":26783.21,"end":26785.21,"text":"從哪裡來的"},{"start":26785.21,"end":26787.21,"text":"為什麼寫這樣的法條內容"},{"start":26787.21,"end":26789.21,"text":"這個大家就要好好的去探究一下了"},{"start":26790.97,"end":26794.97,"text":"特別把作戰模擬測試都寫進去"},{"start":26796.36,"end":26798.36,"text":"這個大有文章啊"},{"start":26798.9,"end":26800.9,"text":"國民黨如果你願意說明的話"},{"start":26800.9,"end":26802.9,"text":"我們其實很想聽聽你的說明"},{"start":26808.35,"end":26810.35,"text":"好"},{"start":26809.89,"end":26811.89,"text":"請說明啊"},{"start":26811.8,"end":26813.8,"text":"作戰模擬測試沒有辦法說明嗎"},{"start":26813.8,"end":26815.8,"text":"為什麼把他寫進法條裡頭"},{"start":26815.8,"end":26817.8,"text":"不然這個法條文字內容"},{"start":26817.8,"end":26819.8,"text":"從哪裡來的也可以說明一下吧"},{"start":26819.8,"end":26821.8,"text":"你們哪一個法案助理寫的"},{"start":26821.8,"end":26823.8,"text":"還是這個是傅崑錡委員交給你們的"},{"start":26823.8,"end":26825.8,"text":"傅崑錡委員從哪裡"},{"start":26825.8,"end":26827.8,"text":"拿來的這個文字內容"},{"start":26827.8,"end":26829.8,"text":"是不是有特定人士"},{"start":26831.49,"end":26833.49,"text":"交代特定人士交給你們的"},{"start":26833.49,"end":26835.49,"text":"請說明啊"},{"start":26835.71,"end":26837.71,"text":"能不能說明"},{"start":26837.71,"end":26839.71,"text":"來這樣審查法案是沒有意思的"},{"start":26839.71,"end":26841.71,"text":"請你看一下王碧雲委員的提案"},{"start":26842.85,"end":26846.85,"text":"積極化設指定無人載具專屬的秘密學育空域"},{"start":26846.85,"end":26848.85,"text":"實證測試場域"},{"start":26848.85,"end":26850.85,"text":"建設通訊導航"},{"start":26850.85,"end":26852.85,"text":"他是誰寫的啊"},{"start":26852.85,"end":26854.85,"text":"是不是老公叫他寫的啊"},{"start":26855.89,"end":26857.89,"text":"我的降刑就沒有意義啦"},{"start":26857.89,"end":26859.89,"text":"這樣鬧就沒有意義"},{"start":26859.89,"end":26861.89,"text":"來行政部門來"},{"start":26861.89,"end":26863.89,"text":"你直接跳進來啦"},{"start":26863.89,"end":26865.89,"text":"我沒有說老公叫你寫的喔"},{"start":26865.89,"end":26867.89,"text":"你直接就說是老公叫你寫的喔"},{"start":26867.89,"end":26869.89,"text":"原來這個法條也是老公叫你們寫的"},{"start":26869.89,"end":26871.89,"text":"感謝你"},{"start":26871.89,"end":26873.89,"text":"老公叫你寫的"},{"start":26873.89,"end":26875.89,"text":"老公今天叫喬怡琪"},{"start":26875.89,"end":26877.89,"text":"今天叫余怡琪"},{"start":26877.89,"end":26879.89,"text":"法條是老公交給你們的"},{"start":26879.89,"end":26881.89,"text":"沒有意思啦"},{"start":26881.89,"end":26883.89,"text":"這是中國共產黨交給你們的"},{"start":26883.89,"end":26885.89,"text":"你才中國共產黨"},{"start":26885.89,"end":26887.89,"text":"這個法條是老公"},{"start":26886.89,"end":26888.89,"text":"來請停止"},{"start":26888.89,"end":26890.89,"text":"我已經沒有"},{"start":26890.89,"end":26892.89,"text":"我覺得是需要影響啦"},{"start":26893.79,"end":26895.79,"text":"不該影響"},{"start":26895.48,"end":26897.48,"text":"法條要針對行政部門"},{"start":26897.48,"end":26899.48,"text":"怎麼針對立委"},{"start":26899.48,"end":26901.48,"text":"公祭就沒有意思了"},{"start":26901.48,"end":26903.48,"text":"今天是曹海寫的"},{"start":26903.48,"end":26905.48,"text":"今天不是"},{"start":26905.48,"end":26907.48,"text":"這是你們寫的"},{"start":26907.48,"end":26909.48,"text":"我才跟你們提出詢問"},{"start":26909.48,"end":26911.48,"text":"所以你們叫法條從哪裡來的"},{"start":26911.48,"end":26913.48,"text":"怎麼會寫作戰模擬呢"},{"start":26913.48,"end":26915.48,"text":"請維持"},{"start":26915.48,"end":26917.48,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":26917.48,"end":26919.48,"text":"法條"},{"start":26919.48,"end":26921.48,"text":"國民黨黨團第六條"},{"start":26921.48,"end":26923.48,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團"},{"start":26923.48,"end":26925.48,"text":"台灣民眾黨團第七條"},{"start":26925.48,"end":26927.48,"text":"台灣民眾黨團第十四條"},{"start":26927.48,"end":26929.48,"text":"台灣民眾黨團第十二條"},{"start":26929.48,"end":26931.48,"text":"台灣民眾黨團第十一條"},{"start":26931.48,"end":26933.48,"text":"我們全部也沒有共識"},{"start":26933.48,"end":26935.48,"text":"我們也保留"},{"start":26936.44,"end":26938.44,"text":"接下來我們就非常大有禮問"},{"start":26938.44,"end":26940.44,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":26940.44,"end":26942.44,"text":"接下來我們進行這一段"},{"start":26942.44,"end":26944.44,"text":"請你不要就直接跳過好不好"},{"start":26944.44,"end":26946.44,"text":"這是關於國家安全"},{"start":26946.44,"end":26948.44,"text":"這是關於國家安全非常重要的"},{"start":26948.44,"end":26950.44,"text":"我們進行第20頁"},{"start":26950.44,"end":26952.44,"text":"關於國家安全非常重要的議題"},{"start":26952.44,"end":26954.44,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":26955.39,"end":26957.39,"text":"接下來我們看第20頁"},{"start":26957.39,"end":26959.39,"text":"進行國民黨黨團體驗第七條"},{"start":26963.25,"end":26965.25,"text":"請經濟部跟國安部"},{"start":26965.25,"end":26967.25,"text":"就國產化這一條的比例"},{"start":26967.25,"end":26969.25,"text":"來一件謝謝"},{"start":26974.46,"end":26976.46,"text":"跟聯席會議報告"},{"start":26979.06,"end":26981.06,"text":"這一條經濟部的意見"},{"start":26981.06,"end":26985.06,"text":"我們認為無人機的種類相當多元"},{"start":26985.06,"end":26987.06,"text":"各型載具的國產化比例各有不同"},{"start":26987.06,"end":26989.06,"text":"各型載具的國產化比例各有不同"},{"start":26989.06,"end":26991.06,"text":"而且國產化的條件還涉及到技術的疊帶速度"},{"start":26991.06,"end":26993.06,"text":"而且國產化的條件還涉及到技術的疊帶速度"},{"start":26993.06,"end":26995.06,"text":"還有市場等不確定因素"},{"start":26995.06,"end":26997.06,"text":"還有市場等不確定因素"},{"start":26997.06,"end":26999.06,"text":"如果以同一的標準"},{"start":26999.06,"end":27001.06,"text":"用明定的比例方式來立法"},{"start":27001.06,"end":27003.06,"text":"恐怕會有執行上的難度"},{"start":27003.06,"end":27005.06,"text":"恐怕會有執行上的難度"},{"start":27004.7,"end":27006.7,"text":"規劃過延也會造成後續採購困難的問題"},{"start":27006.7,"end":27008.7,"text":"規劃過延也會造成後續採購困難的問題"},{"start":27009.91,"end":27011.91,"text":"並缺乏按照實際情形彈性調整的空間"},{"start":27011.91,"end":27013.91,"text":"並缺乏按照實際情形彈性調整的空間"},{"start":27013.91,"end":27015.91,"text":"故建議不需要立法規範"},{"start":27015.91,"end":27017.91,"text":"故建議不需要立法規範"},{"start":27019.01,"end":27021.01,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":27024.1,"end":27026.1,"text":"主席、各位委員"},{"start":27026.1,"end":27028.1,"text":"我想剛剛經濟部也說明了"},{"start":27028.1,"end":27030.1,"text":"現在自第七條講的軍用無人載具的範圍特別廣"},{"start":27030.1,"end":27032.1,"text":"我就以MQ-9V為例好了"},{"start":27032.1,"end":27034.1,"text":"我們對外對美採購MQ-9V"},{"start":27034.1,"end":27036.1,"text":"如果按照您這樣子的規範說"},{"start":27036.1,"end":27038.1,"text":"MQ-9V的這些無人機"},{"start":27038.1,"end":27040.1,"text":"MQ-9V的這些無人機"},{"start":27040.1,"end":27042.1,"text":"有一定的這個國產化的比例要多少"},{"start":27042.1,"end":27044.1,"text":"有一定的這個國產化的比例要多少"},{"start":27044.1,"end":27046.1,"text":"我不曉得"},{"start":27047.74,"end":27049.74,"text":"我們有實踐的可能性嗎"},{"start":27049.74,"end":27051.74,"text":"那我不太清楚在這裡講的所謂的"},{"start":27051.74,"end":27053.74,"text":"那我不太清楚在這裡講的所謂的"},{"start":27053.33,"end":27055.33,"text":"嗯"},{"start":27054.48,"end":27056.48,"text":"在第一款跟第二款又提到所謂的軍用商規"},{"start":27056.48,"end":27058.48,"text":"我想"},{"start":27058.48,"end":27060.48,"text":"這個概念上面來講"},{"start":27060.48,"end":27062.48,"text":"應該已經沒有所謂的軍用商規這個概念了"},{"start":27062.48,"end":27064.48,"text":"應該已經沒有所謂的軍用商規這個概念了"},{"start":27064.48,"end":27066.48,"text":"我們要買的就是軍規"},{"start":27067.55,"end":27069.55,"text":"我不太清楚這裡所講的軍用商規"},{"start":27069.55,"end":27071.55,"text":"所指的含義是什麼"},{"start":27071.55,"end":27073.55,"text":"也許過往"},{"start":27073.55,"end":27075.55,"text":"是拿過往說我們曾經"},{"start":27075.55,"end":27077.55,"text":"曾經以軍用商規為例"},{"start":27077.55,"end":27079.55,"text":"但是現在以無人載機的"},{"start":27079.55,"end":27081.55,"text":"這個應用上來講"},{"start":27081.55,"end":27083.55,"text":"我想"},{"start":27084.92,"end":27086.92,"text":"沒有什麼軍用商規"},{"start":27086.92,"end":27088.92,"text":"就我們作戰需求來講"},{"start":27088.92,"end":27090.92,"text":"我們所有的"},{"start":27090.92,"end":27092.92,"text":"無人載機的需求都是以我們"},{"start":27092.92,"end":27094.92,"text":"認為符合作戰需求的軍規"},{"start":27094.92,"end":27096.92,"text":"做處罰"},{"start":27102.48,"end":27104.48,"text":"好"},{"start":27106.21,"end":27108.21,"text":"都沒有意見"},{"start":27108.21,"end":27110.21,"text":"真開心"},{"start":27109.92,"end":27111.92,"text":"好"},{"start":27111.07,"end":27113.07,"text":"我個人看法"},{"start":27113.07,"end":27115.07,"text":"我代表主席看法"},{"start":27115.07,"end":27117.07,"text":"我是覺得說因為國防部"},{"start":27117.07,"end":27119.07,"text":"當時都是在一開始"},{"start":27119.07,"end":27121.07,"text":"審這個就是說我們希望是"},{"start":27121.07,"end":27123.07,"text":"國產化的比例"},{"start":27123.07,"end":27125.07,"text":"經濟部的話也是一樣"},{"start":27125.07,"end":27127.07,"text":"我們很多都在支持"},{"start":27127.07,"end":27129.07,"text":"就是說就這一個"},{"start":27129.07,"end":27131.07,"text":"法條法案的話就是說"},{"start":27131.07,"end":27133.07,"text":"假設這樣子的一個"},{"start":27133.07,"end":27135.07,"text":"民主建化國產化的比例"},{"start":27135.07,"end":27137.07,"text":"就是到底我相信"},{"start":27137.07,"end":27139.07,"text":"因為我不是國民黨團的提案者"},{"start":27139.07,"end":27141.07,"text":"我相信他們對於國防部"},{"start":27141.07,"end":27143.07,"text":"在國防自主這一塊"},{"start":27143.07,"end":27145.07,"text":"可能需要你跟經濟部配合"},{"start":27145.07,"end":27147.07,"text":"真的確實盤點"},{"start":27147.07,"end":27149.07,"text":"因為過去我們看到很多國產化的比例"},{"start":27149.07,"end":27151.07,"text":"是不高的"},{"start":27151.07,"end":27153.07,"text":"跟主席報告一下"},{"start":27153.07,"end":27155.07,"text":"因為這個是國民黨黨團的提案"},{"start":27155.07,"end":27157.07,"text":"國民黨黨團在一開始"},{"start":27157.07,"end":27159.07,"text":"定義"},{"start":27158.47,"end":27160.47,"text":"無人宰居的時候他是把所有的"},{"start":27160.47,"end":27162.47,"text":"無人宰居都包括進去"},{"start":27162.47,"end":27164.47,"text":"所以我們NQ9B也是"},{"start":27164.47,"end":27166.47,"text":"屬於他定義的無人宰居"},{"start":27166.49,"end":27168.49,"text":"我現在只要我是順著國民黨的"},{"start":27168.49,"end":27170.49,"text":"立法的邏輯往下"},{"start":27170.49,"end":27172.49,"text":"推演到這一條"},{"start":27172.49,"end":27174.49,"text":"來說明無人宰居"},{"start":27174.49,"end":27176.49,"text":"經用無人宰居的採集"},{"start":27177.37,"end":27179.37,"text":"那這個不是我們現在"},{"start":27179.37,"end":27181.37,"text":"國防部提出來的"},{"start":27181.37,"end":27183.37,"text":"那個堅爭"},{"start":27184.15,"end":27186.15,"text":"兵海堅爭型的無人機兵海攻擊型的無人機"},{"start":27186.15,"end":27188.15,"text":"跟小型自殺無人機"},{"start":27188.15,"end":27190.15,"text":"這三款的範圍而已"},{"start":27190.15,"end":27192.15,"text":"如果再回溯回去"},{"start":27192.15,"end":27194.15,"text":"看看國民黨的"},{"start":27194.15,"end":27196.15,"text":"對於無人宰居的定義"},{"start":27196.15,"end":27198.15,"text":"在他的名詞定義裡面"},{"start":27198.15,"end":27200.15,"text":"他是所有的無人宰居"},{"start":27200.15,"end":27202.15,"text":"所有的無人宰居都"},{"start":27202.15,"end":27204.15,"text":"要求如果按照他的要求"},{"start":27204.15,"end":27206.15,"text":"都要有一個國產化的比例的話"},{"start":27206.15,"end":27208.15,"text":"讓我們很多外購的項目"},{"start":27208.15,"end":27210.15,"text":"是不可能做到這個程度的"},{"start":27210.15,"end":27212.15,"text":"那不管是"},{"start":27212.15,"end":27214.15,"text":"還是透過軍購還是透過商購"},{"start":27214.15,"end":27216.15,"text":"所以我要講的"},{"start":27216.15,"end":27218.15,"text":"我的意思是"},{"start":27218.15,"end":27220.15,"text":"順著國民黨他立法的"},{"start":27220.15,"end":27222.15,"text":"意旨一直往下延伸"},{"start":27222.15,"end":27224.15,"text":"會產生非常嚴重的問題"},{"start":27224.15,"end":27226.15,"text":"我只是特別取這樣的例子做說明而已"},{"start":27226.95,"end":27228.95,"text":"稍等一下我請教一下"},{"start":27229.55,"end":27233.55,"text":"那你這個MQ9B是包括在軍用商規嗎?"},{"start":27234.37,"end":27236.37,"text":"是包括在軍用商規嗎?"},{"start":27239.59,"end":27241.59,"text":"這個就是我沒有辦法"},{"start":27241.59,"end":27243.59,"text":"因為我不是立法的"},{"start":27243.59,"end":27245.59,"text":"是我嘛對不對"},{"start":27245.59,"end":27247.59,"text":"可是他的頭是灌軍用無人宰居"},{"start":27247.59,"end":27249.59,"text":"那現在下來"},{"start":27249.59,"end":27251.59,"text":"軍用商規有沒有包括MQ9B啊"},{"start":27251.59,"end":27253.59,"text":"那我現在的問題"},{"start":27253.59,"end":27255.59,"text":"是在於說"},{"start":27255.59,"end":27257.59,"text":"那要請國民黨來幫我解釋一下"},{"start":27257.59,"end":27259.59,"text":"什麼叫做軍用商規"},{"start":27263.87,"end":27265.87,"text":"因為我們知道MQ9B是FMS喔"},{"start":27265.87,"end":27267.87,"text":"它不是DCS喔"},{"start":27267.87,"end":27269.87,"text":"那我現在"},{"start":27269.87,"end":27271.87,"text":"不知道它說軍用軍規喔"},{"start":27271.87,"end":27273.87,"text":"國民黨黨團的版本"},{"start":27273.87,"end":27275.87,"text":"並沒有在界定是軍售的"},{"start":27275.87,"end":27277.87,"text":"商售的"},{"start":27277.87,"end":27279.87,"text":"國內採購的"},{"start":27279.87,"end":27281.87,"text":"因為現在這個講是商售"},{"start":27281.87,"end":27283.87,"text":"不是軍購喔"},{"start":27283.87,"end":27285.87,"text":"那請問一下國民黨團"},{"start":27285.87,"end":27287.87,"text":"對不起賴委員"},{"start":27287.87,"end":27289.87,"text":"我沒有我想我們不是在"},{"start":27289.87,"end":27291.87,"text":"我現在請教一下國民黨黨團"},{"start":27291.87,"end":27293.87,"text":"哪一個版本"},{"start":27293.87,"end":27295.87,"text":"對應到第七條"},{"start":27295.87,"end":27297.87,"text":"在談軍用商規這個字"},{"start":27299.98,"end":27301.98,"text":"是不是指國內採購"},{"start":27303.16,"end":27305.16,"text":"在哪裡可以看得出來"},{"start":27312.61,"end":27314.61,"text":"而且標的"},{"start":27314.61,"end":27316.61,"text":"國務長你這裡有一個矛盾的地方"},{"start":27316.61,"end":27318.61,"text":"你早上才講"},{"start":27318.61,"end":27320.61,"text":"你要的偵查用的"},{"start":27320.61,"end":27322.61,"text":"這個無人機"},{"start":27322.61,"end":27324.61,"text":"自殺式的無人機以及無人體"},{"start":27324.61,"end":27326.61,"text":"基本上是對國內採購"},{"start":27326.61,"end":27328.61,"text":"對對對"},{"start":27328.61,"end":27330.61,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":27330.61,"end":27332.61,"text":"所以我沒有"},{"start":27332.61,"end":27334.61,"text":"對對"},{"start":27334.61,"end":27336.61,"text":"我的標的沒有含MQ9B啊"},{"start":27336.61,"end":27338.61,"text":"但貴黨的"},{"start":27338.61,"end":27340.61,"text":"版本裡面有沒有排除"},{"start":27340.61,"end":27342.61,"text":"哪些無人載具"},{"start":27343.71,"end":27345.71,"text":"就是貴黨的版本"},{"start":27345.71,"end":27347.71,"text":"如果大家再回去看貴黨的無人載具的定義"},{"start":27347.71,"end":27349.71,"text":"在名詞定義是"},{"start":27349.71,"end":27351.71,"text":"包含懸翼型定翼型"},{"start":27351.71,"end":27353.71,"text":"垂直起降型等無人機"},{"start":27353.71,"end":27355.71,"text":"包含水面水下無人機"},{"start":27355.71,"end":27357.71,"text":"是無人體"},{"start":27357.71,"end":27359.71,"text":"包含增收型後傾型是"},{"start":27359.71,"end":27361.71,"text":"作戰以及作戰型的"},{"start":27361.71,"end":27363.71,"text":"地面無人載具"},{"start":27363.71,"end":27365.71,"text":"其操作或飛航不需人員"},{"start":27365.71,"end":27367.71,"text":"承載於機具本體"},{"start":27367.71,"end":27369.71,"text":"所以它包括天上飛的"},{"start":27369.81,"end":27371.81,"text":"水上航行的水下的"},{"start":27373.25,"end":27375.25,"text":"乃至於地面的"},{"start":27375.25,"end":27377.25,"text":"都含在你們的無人載具範圍內啊"},{"start":27377.25,"end":27379.25,"text":"很好啊"},{"start":27379.25,"end":27381.25,"text":"沒有我是只要跟你"},{"start":27381.25,"end":27383.25,"text":"強調一個軍用商規"},{"start":27383.25,"end":27385.25,"text":"顧名思義它是"},{"start":27385.25,"end":27387.25,"text":"DCS嘛它不是FMS嘛"},{"start":27387.25,"end":27389.25,"text":"那你MQ9B是FMS啊"},{"start":27389.25,"end":27391.25,"text":"這個東西大家都很清楚啊"},{"start":27391.25,"end":27393.25,"text":"怎麼不是呢"},{"start":27393.25,"end":27395.25,"text":"這是這是"},{"start":27395.25,"end":27397.25,"text":"我沒有"},{"start":27397.25,"end":27399.25,"text":"那可能要麻煩公務長委員"},{"start":27399.25,"end":27401.25,"text":"是不是要回去就你們的名詞定義"},{"start":27401.25,"end":27403.25,"text":"裡面把軍用商規稍微定義一下"},{"start":27407.65,"end":27409.65,"text":"好"},{"start":27411.56,"end":27413.56,"text":"其他的版本"},{"start":27414.6,"end":27416.6,"text":"沒有版本"},{"start":27416.57,"end":27418.57,"text":"好吧現在就當留"},{"start":27419.61,"end":27421.61,"text":"接下來的話我們進到"},{"start":27421.61,"end":27423.61,"text":"第21頁"},{"start":27423.61,"end":27425.61,"text":"主要合併討論國民黨團"},{"start":27425.61,"end":27427.61,"text":"提案第8條中央"},{"start":27427.61,"end":27429.61,"text":"邊緣委員提案第14條"},{"start":27429.61,"end":27431.61,"text":"黃定野提案第13條"},{"start":27432.27,"end":27434.27,"text":"這是在"},{"start":27434.58,"end":27436.58,"text":"講補助跟這個研發教育補助"},{"start":27438.75,"end":27440.75,"text":"那差別看起來就是中央邊緣委員會"},{"start":27440.75,"end":27442.75,"text":"其他的的話應該都是主管機關"},{"start":27445.6,"end":27447.6,"text":"來請進進一步"},{"start":27454.73,"end":27456.73,"text":"好"},{"start":27505.96,"end":27507.96,"text":"那另外工程會也已經有訂定遙控無人機"},{"start":27507.96,"end":27509.96,"text":"採購作業指引"},{"start":27509.96,"end":27511.96,"text":"以分級的方式將非宏級國產化"},{"start":27511.96,"end":27513.96,"text":"民主界納入採購的一個要求"},{"start":27513.96,"end":27515.96,"text":"可實質鼓勵國產化優良的業者"},{"start":27515.96,"end":27517.96,"text":"建立務需要另外的立法規範"},{"start":27517.96,"end":27519.96,"text":"以上"},{"start":27523.75,"end":27525.75,"text":"那現在就位了"},{"start":27528.17,"end":27530.17,"text":"阿光不對不起"},{"start":27529.79,"end":27531.79,"text":"我稍微再說明一下"},{"start":27531.79,"end":27533.79,"text":"剛剛有提到軍用商規"},{"start":27533.79,"end":27535.79,"text":"那我當然再看了一下國民黨黨團"},{"start":27535.79,"end":27537.79,"text":"他的第3條確實有提到軍用商規無人載具"},{"start":27537.79,"end":27539.79,"text":"是指以商用規格"},{"start":27539.79,"end":27541.79,"text":"這零組件為基礎"},{"start":27541.79,"end":27543.79,"text":"依軍事需求進行適應性改良"},{"start":27543.79,"end":27545.79,"text":"並符合一定抗干擾"},{"start":27545.79,"end":27547.79,"text":"抗電池脈衝"},{"start":27547.79,"end":27549.79,"text":"及戰場存活力"},{"start":27549.79,"end":27551.79,"text":"標準的無人載具"},{"start":27551.79,"end":27553.79,"text":"那我這邊只要說明一下就是說"},{"start":27553.79,"end":27555.79,"text":"軍用商規的無人載具"},{"start":27555.79,"end":27557.79,"text":"在這裡所定義的"},{"start":27557.79,"end":27559.79,"text":"軍事需求來作為一個基礎的話"},{"start":27559.79,"end":27561.79,"text":"如果是這樣子講"},{"start":27561.79,"end":27563.79,"text":"那麼有關於所謂"},{"start":27563.79,"end":27565.79,"text":"符合一定抗干擾"},{"start":27565.79,"end":27567.79,"text":"看電池脈衝及戰場存活率"},{"start":27567.79,"end":27569.79,"text":"標準的無人載具"},{"start":27569.79,"end":27571.79,"text":"在我們來看"},{"start":27571.79,"end":27573.79,"text":"我們都還是要以我們的作戰需求"},{"start":27573.79,"end":27575.79,"text":"採取我們認為適合"},{"start":27575.79,"end":27577.79,"text":"我們作戰需求的軍規"},{"start":27577.79,"end":27579.79,"text":"所以有關相關於所謂的商用規格"},{"start":27579.79,"end":27581.79,"text":"是零組件"},{"start":27581.79,"end":27583.79,"text":"我想"},{"start":27583.04,"end":27585.04,"text":"沒有辦法能夠充分的理解"},{"start":27585.04,"end":27587.04,"text":"什麼叫做以商用規格是零組件"},{"start":27587.04,"end":27589.04,"text":"為基礎"},{"start":27589.04,"end":27591.04,"text":"因為所有的"},{"start":27591.04,"end":27593.04,"text":"我們所軍規所需要的"},{"start":27593.04,"end":27595.04,"text":"這些無人載具"},{"start":27595.04,"end":27597.04,"text":"我們都還是希望符合我們的軍規"},{"start":27597.04,"end":27599.04,"text":"那以後我們依照我們的軍事"},{"start":27599.04,"end":27601.04,"text":"需求我們"},{"start":27601.04,"end":27603.04,"text":"也採購相關的這些無人載具"},{"start":27603.04,"end":27605.04,"text":"所以還是回到剛剛講的"},{"start":27605.04,"end":27607.04,"text":"那個所謂的本條例"},{"start":27607.04,"end":27609.04,"text":"事情後多久之內"},{"start":27609.04,"end":27611.04,"text":"軍用商規的無人機的國產化"},{"start":27611.04,"end":27613.04,"text":"比例是多少的這件事情"},{"start":27613.04,"end":27615.04,"text":"我們在國防部的立場上面"},{"start":27615.04,"end":27617.04,"text":"我們沒有辦法確切的能夠"},{"start":27617.04,"end":27619.04,"text":"充分的去理解"},{"start":27619.04,"end":27621.04,"text":"這樣子的一個特定的"},{"start":27621.04,"end":27623.04,"text":"一個所謂的軍用商規無人載具"},{"start":27623.04,"end":27625.04,"text":"在他的定義之下"},{"start":27625.04,"end":27627.04,"text":"所能夠所謂的"},{"start":27627.04,"end":27629.04,"text":"國產化的"},{"start":27629.04,"end":27631.04,"text":"這個比例指的"},{"start":27631.04,"end":27633.04,"text":"是不是一定是現以對國內"},{"start":27633.04,"end":27635.04,"text":"採購的這個部分"},{"start":27635.04,"end":27637.04,"text":"那如果說是現以國內"},{"start":27637.04,"end":27639.04,"text":"採購也就是說"},{"start":27639.04,"end":27641.04,"text":"符合我們現在國防自主採購"},{"start":27641.04,"end":27643.04,"text":"所要發展的這個項目的話"},{"start":27643.04,"end":27645.04,"text":"我可能要麻煩"},{"start":27645.04,"end":27647.04,"text":"國民黨的版本在軍用商規"},{"start":27647.04,"end":27649.04,"text":"無人機的這個部分"},{"start":27649.04,"end":27651.04,"text":"就是指為了基於國防自主"},{"start":27651.04,"end":27653.04,"text":"採購而所發展的"},{"start":27653.04,"end":27655.04,"text":"這些所謂的無人機"},{"start":27655.04,"end":27657.04,"text":"但是合乎我們軍事需求"},{"start":27657.04,"end":27659.04,"text":"我想這樣可能會比較清楚一點"},{"start":27659.04,"end":27661.04,"text":"那另外剛剛講的獎勵補助的這些相關的規範"},{"start":27661.04,"end":27663.04,"text":"應該不是在我們"},{"start":27663.04,"end":27665.04,"text":"這個國防部所"},{"start":27665.04,"end":27667.04,"text":"應該要的一個權責範圍"},{"start":27667.04,"end":27669.04,"text":"那這個部分以上"},{"start":27669.77,"end":27671.77,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":27674.56,"end":27676.56,"text":"我還是想要請教一下"},{"start":27676.56,"end":27678.56,"text":"因為這個是國民黨黨團的提案"},{"start":27678.56,"end":27680.56,"text":"我還是想要具體請教一下"},{"start":27680.56,"end":27682.56,"text":"第八條整個條文念完"},{"start":27684.21,"end":27686.21,"text":"我想請教你們補助的對象會是綠油油嗎?"},{"start":27689.62,"end":27691.62,"text":"你直接寫補助業者喔"},{"start":27691.62,"end":27693.62,"text":"還有資金投入喔"},{"start":27693.62,"end":27695.62,"text":"還有授權喔 還有優先採購喔"},{"start":27695.62,"end":27697.62,"text":"然後提供融資及優惠利率喔"},{"start":27697.62,"end":27699.62,"text":"所以這些都做完之後"},{"start":27699.62,"end":27701.62,"text":"這個業者是不是就是綠油油?"},{"start":27702.85,"end":27704.85,"text":"請教一下"},{"start":27704.26,"end":27706.26,"text":"就你覺得他是的時候"},{"start":27706.26,"end":27708.26,"text":"你喜歡的時候就說他是這個優良業者"},{"start":27708.26,"end":27710.26,"text":"你不喜歡他的時候"},{"start":27710.26,"end":27712.26,"text":"你就說他是綠油油"},{"start":27712.26,"end":27714.26,"text":"然後就說是經濟部"},{"start":27714.26,"end":27716.26,"text":"獨厚他 還優先採購他"},{"start":27716.26,"end":27718.26,"text":"還資金幫助他"},{"start":27718.26,"end":27720.26,"text":"還授權 還補助他"},{"start":27720.26,"end":27722.26,"text":"還優惠融資 什麼都來囉"},{"start":27722.26,"end":27724.26,"text":"那這是不是綠油油?"},{"start":27723.97,"end":27725.97,"text":"請教一下"},{"start":27727.17,"end":27729.17,"text":"這個不用回答 來"},{"start":27730.39,"end":27732.39,"text":"這很重要"},{"start":27732.39,"end":27734.39,"text":"因為我們要釐清被補助的業者"},{"start":27734.39,"end":27736.39,"text":"被你認定優良的補助業者"},{"start":27736.39,"end":27738.39,"text":"是不是每一個都是綠油油?"},{"start":27739.37,"end":27741.37,"text":"就說明書啊 這是你寫的"},{"start":27741.37,"end":27743.37,"text":"你可以回應一下"},{"start":27742.66,"end":27744.66,"text":"不然叫副坤起來"},{"start":27744.66,"end":27746.66,"text":"這副坤起來"},{"start":27747.88,"end":27751.88,"text":"我們今天在審查這個條例"},{"start":27751.88,"end":27753.88,"text":"各個委員 各個黨派"},{"start":27753.88,"end":27755.88,"text":"依法去執行"},{"start":27755.88,"end":27759.88,"text":"提出大家的法案"},{"start":27759.88,"end":27761.88,"text":"今天行政部門坐在這裡"},{"start":27761.88,"end":27763.88,"text":"我們要討論的是"},{"start":27763.88,"end":27765.88,"text":"提出法案"},{"start":27765.88,"end":27767.88,"text":"在委員方面 在行政部門"},{"start":27767.88,"end":27769.88,"text":"要怎麼樣去溝通"},{"start":27769.88,"end":27771.88,"text":"能不能達成共識"},{"start":27771.88,"end":27773.88,"text":"尤其現在討論到"},{"start":27773.88,"end":27775.88,"text":"第八條"},{"start":27775.88,"end":27777.88,"text":"我相信所有的委員"},{"start":27777.88,"end":27779.88,"text":"一定都是全力的支持"},{"start":27779.88,"end":27781.88,"text":"投入無人載具"},{"start":27781.88,"end":27783.88,"text":"關鍵零組件"},{"start":27783.88,"end":27785.88,"text":"國產化的優良業者"},{"start":27785.88,"end":27787.88,"text":"經濟部"},{"start":27787.88,"end":27789.88,"text":"卓語講著"},{"start":27789.88,"end":27791.88,"text":"這個是我們每一次"},{"start":27791.88,"end":27793.88,"text":"在經濟委員會"},{"start":27793.88,"end":27795.88,"text":"大家都非常非常的"},{"start":27795.88,"end":27797.88,"text":"要求"},{"start":27797.88,"end":27799.88,"text":"所以今天提出這個"},{"start":27799.88,"end":27801.88,"text":"應當是大家全力的"},{"start":27801.88,"end":27803.88,"text":"來支持我們的無人機"},{"start":27803.88,"end":27805.88,"text":"無人載具 零組件"},{"start":27805.88,"end":27807.88,"text":"讓我們國內的"},{"start":27807.88,"end":27809.88,"text":"廠商可以"},{"start":27809.88,"end":27811.88,"text":"精進 可以升級"},{"start":27811.88,"end":27813.88,"text":"所以因此不管在捐助"},{"start":27813.88,"end":27815.88,"text":"或者是資金技術"},{"start":27815.88,"end":27817.88,"text":"投資或者是授權"},{"start":27817.88,"end":27819.88,"text":"或者是應該要優先"},{"start":27819.88,"end":27821.88,"text":"採購國內"},{"start":27821.88,"end":27823.88,"text":"或者是要提供融資的"},{"start":27823.88,"end":27825.88,"text":"優惠利率 我相信"},{"start":27825.88,"end":27827.88,"text":"不管是在民進黨的委員的提案"},{"start":27827.88,"end":27829.88,"text":"大家的方向精神"},{"start":27829.88,"end":27831.88,"text":"都是如此 所以應該"},{"start":27831.88,"end":27833.88,"text":"要得到支持的"},{"start":27833.88,"end":27835.88,"text":"以上我的建議 請主席"},{"start":27835.88,"end":27837.88,"text":"做裁決"},{"start":27838.31,"end":27840.31,"text":"好 終結"},{"start":27840.07,"end":27841.07,"text":"委員"},{"start":27841.16,"end":27843.16,"text":"好 因為呢 條次啊 我的"},{"start":27843.16,"end":27845.16,"text":"版本的第14條呢"},{"start":27845.16,"end":27847.16,"text":"又跟國民黨的第8條放在一起"},{"start":27847.16,"end":27849.16,"text":"那我必須說嘛"},{"start":27849.16,"end":27851.16,"text":"說明啦 上週的公聽會呢"},{"start":27851.16,"end":27853.16,"text":"真的 學者專家能夠"},{"start":27853.16,"end":27855.16,"text":"有些積極性的"},{"start":27855.16,"end":27857.16,"text":"建設性方案提出"},{"start":27857.16,"end":27859.16,"text":"有提出說 我們要去注意到"},{"start":27859.16,"end":27861.16,"text":"有在2018年有通過了一個"},{"start":27861.16,"end":27863.16,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":27863.16,"end":27865.16,"text":"科技創新實驗條例"},{"start":27865.16,"end":27867.16,"text":"其實我後來"},{"start":27867.16,"end":27869.16,"text":"再去看了這個無人載具"},{"start":27869.16,"end":27871.16,"text":"科技創新實驗條例之後"},{"start":27871.16,"end":27873.16,"text":"我覺得在我的"},{"start":27873.16,"end":27875.16,"text":"版本當中第14條 其實"},{"start":27875.99,"end":27877.99,"text":"可以被這樣的條例"},{"start":27877.99,"end":27879.99,"text":"只要稍微的修改既有的"},{"start":27879.99,"end":27881.99,"text":"條例就可以吸納"},{"start":27881.99,"end":27883.99,"text":"所以剛剛經濟部的說明"},{"start":27883.99,"end":27885.99,"text":"我是可以原則接受的"},{"start":27885.99,"end":27887.99,"text":"那麼如果是這樣的情況之下"},{"start":27887.99,"end":27889.99,"text":"國民黨的第8條 其實也是"},{"start":27889.99,"end":27891.99,"text":"建議國民黨團可以回去看一下"},{"start":27891.99,"end":27893.99,"text":"我們這是新創法"},{"start":27893.99,"end":27895.99,"text":"那新創法呢 要建立一個新的"},{"start":27895.99,"end":27897.99,"text":"法律體系啊 它會遇到"},{"start":27897.99,"end":27899.99,"text":"很多可能需要的一個"},{"start":27899.99,"end":27901.99,"text":"壓力測試 一個環評"},{"start":27901.99,"end":27903.99,"text":"那如果單純的放在採購上"},{"start":27903.99,"end":27905.99,"text":"那麼對於產業輔導部分"},{"start":27905.99,"end":27907.99,"text":"如果以現有的產業輔導相關的"},{"start":27907.99,"end":27909.99,"text":"條文"},{"start":27909.81,"end":27911.81,"text":"稍微修改就能納入的話"},{"start":27911.81,"end":27913.81,"text":"我會覺得可以用既有的"},{"start":27913.81,"end":27915.81,"text":"條例來進行修改"},{"start":27915.81,"end":27917.81,"text":"所以呢 我的部分"},{"start":27917.81,"end":27919.81,"text":"我的部分我會"},{"start":27919.81,"end":27921.81,"text":"個人先表達我的版本 這個條文"},{"start":27921.81,"end":27923.81,"text":"可以保留在委員會 不是"},{"start":27923.81,"end":27925.81,"text":"保留出委員會 保留在委員會"},{"start":27925.81,"end":27927.81,"text":"因為未來的這個"},{"start":27927.81,"end":27929.81,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":27929.81,"end":27931.81,"text":"它的這個科技"},{"start":27931.81,"end":27933.81,"text":"創新科技實驗條例"},{"start":27933.81,"end":27935.81,"text":"它未來呢 有可能在"},{"start":27935.81,"end":27937.81,"text":"後續我們也會就"},{"start":27937.81,"end":27939.81,"text":"相關和現在無人載具的部分"},{"start":27939.81,"end":27941.81,"text":"我們是進行調整"},{"start":27941.81,"end":27943.81,"text":"因為呢 它的法規"},{"start":27943.81,"end":27945.81,"text":"編類就是在經濟部"},{"start":27945.81,"end":27947.81,"text":"這在2018年是如此"},{"start":27947.81,"end":27949.81,"text":"那至於啊 因為剛剛呢 這個第八條"},{"start":27949.81,"end":27951.81,"text":"之前的第七條啊"},{"start":27951.81,"end":27953.81,"text":"我就看到了這個 不僅想到網路上"},{"start":27953.81,"end":27955.81,"text":"在現在新鮮人 社會新鮮人"},{"start":27955.81,"end":27957.81,"text":"求職期間啊 有個說法"},{"start":27957.81,"end":27959.81,"text":"有人問社會新鮮人 你剛出校園"},{"start":27959.81,"end":27961.81,"text":"你現在做工作找得怎麼樣 不錯啊"},{"start":27961.81,"end":27963.81,"text":"我有個工作啊"},{"start":27963.05,"end":27965.05,"text":"月入20萬啊 週休"},{"start":27965.05,"end":27967.05,"text":"週休5天啊"},{"start":27967.2,"end":27969.2,"text":"然後呢 福利很好啊"},{"start":27969.2,"end":27971.2,"text":"人家問啊 你是做什麼的 做夢的"},{"start":27972.43,"end":27974.43,"text":"這個第七條啊"},{"start":27974.09,"end":27976.09,"text":"什麼50 80 70"},{"start":27976.75,"end":27978.75,"text":"這個百分比"},{"start":27978.75,"end":27980.75,"text":"我真的不曉得 它的所謂的"},{"start":27980.75,"end":27982.75,"text":"40依據物理基礎在哪裡"},{"start":27983.06,"end":27985.06,"text":"就連美國"},{"start":27985.06,"end":27987.06,"text":"口口聲聲有委員說 美國的無人宅具"},{"start":27987.06,"end":27989.06,"text":"發展很好 他們也不可能去"},{"start":27989.06,"end":27991.06,"text":"訂出這種50啊"},{"start":27991.06,"end":27993.06,"text":"80啊 70啊"},{"start":27993.06,"end":27995.06,"text":"連軍用的都做不到 你要管軍用商規的"},{"start":27995.86,"end":27997.86,"text":"所以我是覺得呢"},{"start":27997.86,"end":27999.86,"text":"剛剛這個第七條已經保留了啦"},{"start":27999.86,"end":28001.86,"text":"我尊重我們楊瓊英委員"},{"start":28001.86,"end":28003.86,"text":"第一條也保留 保留得好啊"},{"start":28003.86,"end":28005.86,"text":"這條根本沒有必要"},{"start":28005.86,"end":28007.86,"text":"那至於第八條呢 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接下來我們進行第"},{"start":28047.37,"end":28049.37,"text":"二十二頁"},{"start":28049.37,"end":28051.37,"text":"國民黨黨團提案第九條"},{"start":28051.37,"end":28053.37,"text":"請"},{"start":28053.33,"end":28055.33,"text":"請進進步"},{"start":28057.7,"end":28059.7,"text":"請進進步"},{"start":28062.83,"end":28064.83,"text":"這個這個經濟不太回答"},{"start":28064.83,"end":28066.83,"text":"好奇怪"},{"start":28068.35,"end":28070.35,"text":"好 報告委員"},{"start":28070.35,"end":28072.35,"text":"那這一條其實國際基金"},{"start":28072.35,"end":28074.35,"text":"已經有多項的一些"},{"start":28074.35,"end":28076.35,"text":"方案已經在支持"},{"start":28076.35,"end":28078.35,"text":"包括加強投資中小企業"},{"start":28078.35,"end":28080.35,"text":"實施方案 加強投資策略性"},{"start":28080.35,"end":28082.35,"text":"服務業實施方案 加強投資"},{"start":28082.35,"end":28084.35,"text":"策略性製造業實施方案"},{"start":28084.35,"end":28086.35,"text":"等 跟民間的資金共同"},{"start":28086.35,"end":28088.35,"text":"投資中小級新創企業的方案"},{"start":28088.35,"end":28090.35,"text":"建立不需要"},{"start":28090.35,"end":28092.35,"text":"令立法規範"},{"start":28092.35,"end":28094.35,"text":"以上"},{"start":28093.83,"end":28095.83,"text":"國發基金"},{"start":28108.14,"end":28110.14,"text":"主席各位委員大家好"},{"start":28110.14,"end":28112.14,"text":"那國發基金這邊說明一下"},{"start":28112.14,"end":28114.14,"text":"因為國發基金本來就是依照產業創新條例"},{"start":28114.14,"end":28116.14,"text":"而設置的"},{"start":28116.14,"end":28118.14,"text":"所以國發基金的宗旨就是在協助產業的發展"},{"start":28118.14,"end":28120.14,"text":"那剛剛"},{"start":28120.14,"end":28122.14,"text":"經濟部次長也有報告過了"},{"start":28122.14,"end":28124.14,"text":"就是國發基金下來的投資方案"},{"start":28125.47,"end":28127.47,"text":"包括直接投資還有跟部會"},{"start":28127.47,"end":28129.47,"text":"之間合作的白衣投資以及"},{"start":28129.47,"end":28131.47,"text":"創業天使投資方案"},{"start":28131.47,"end":28133.47,"text":"目前都可以投資"},{"start":28133.47,"end":28135.47,"text":"從事無人載具科技事業"},{"start":28136.19,"end":28138.19,"text":"而且經濟部這邊也有中小企業發展條例"},{"start":28138.19,"end":28140.19,"text":"本來就是在協助"},{"start":28140.19,"end":28142.19,"text":"中小企業跟新創企業的發展"},{"start":28142.19,"end":28144.19,"text":"所以建議"},{"start":28144.19,"end":28146.19,"text":"不需要令立法規範"},{"start":28146.19,"end":28148.19,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":28150.13,"end":28152.13,"text":"完"},{"start":28151.26,"end":28153.26,"text":"來 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再來我們進行國民黨團提案的第12條"},{"start":28600.53,"end":28602.53,"text":"好 那第12條的說明"},{"start":28603.54,"end":28606.54,"text":"這個國防部在辦理軍用無人"},{"start":28606.54,"end":28608.54,"text":"無人載具的這個採購及"},{"start":28608.54,"end":28610.54,"text":"政府機關辦理公務無人"},{"start":28611.59,"end":28613.59,"text":"載具的這個採購的時候"},{"start":28613.59,"end":28615.59,"text":"應該按照這個"},{"start":28615.59,"end":28617.59,"text":"現行採購的規範及各案的"},{"start":28617.59,"end":28619.59,"text":"契約要求辦理非供應鏈的這個"},{"start":28619.59,"end":28621.59,"text":"管理那民用無人載具"},{"start":28621.59,"end":28623.59,"text":"那則應該按照"},{"start":28623.59,"end":28625.59,"text":"他產品的類型重量"},{"start":28625.59,"end":28627.59,"text":"用途還有使用的情境分別"},{"start":28627.59,"end":28629.59,"text":"符合適用的這個商品檢驗"},{"start":28629.59,"end":28631.59,"text":"非常安全或資通"},{"start":28631.59,"end":28633.59,"text":"安全的這個規定"},{"start":28633.59,"end":28635.59,"text":"另外數畫部也已經成立"},{"start":28635.59,"end":28637.59,"text":"無人機資安聯合"},{"start":28637.59,"end":28639.59,"text":"驗測實驗室辦理"},{"start":28639.59,"end":28641.59,"text":"無人機資安檢測及相關"},{"start":28642.48,"end":28644.48,"text":"的這個工作"},{"start":28644.48,"end":28646.48,"text":"那通過檢測的這個廠商"},{"start":28646.48,"end":28648.48,"text":"的資訊也已經公佈在官方網站"},{"start":28648.48,"end":28650.48,"text":"所以我們也是建立不需要"},{"start":28650.48,"end":28652.48,"text":"立法規範以上"},{"start":28652.2,"end":28654.2,"text":"好數畫部"},{"start":28654.48,"end":28656.48,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":28655.9,"end":28657.9,"text":"保留"},{"start":28658.16,"end":28660.16,"text":"好接下來國民黨同仁提案第13條"},{"start":28663.02,"end":28665.02,"text":"好那第13條這邊說明"},{"start":28665.52,"end":28667.52,"text":"無人載具的國際合作也已經"},{"start":28667.52,"end":28669.52,"text":"納入這個統籌型計畫來推動"},{"start":28669.52,"end":28671.52,"text":"由相關計畫按照全者來推動"},{"start":28672.32,"end":28674.32,"text":"技術交流共同研發供應鏈的媒合"},{"start":28674.32,"end":28676.32,"text":"這個測試驗證以及"},{"start":28676.32,"end":28678.32,"text":"國際市場的一個鏈結"},{"start":28678.32,"end":28680.32,"text":"那數畫部也已經建立了"},{"start":28680.32,"end":28682.32,"text":"無人機資安的這個檢測及資安"},{"start":28682.32,"end":28684.32,"text":"及產品的一個資安"},{"start":28684.32,"end":28686.32,"text":"認證的一個機制"},{"start":28686.32,"end":28688.32,"text":"那經濟部也支持這個"},{"start":28688.32,"end":28690.32,"text":"供應鏈推動GREEN UAS的一個"},{"start":28690.32,"end":28692.32,"text":"國際費用供應鏈的一個"},{"start":28692.32,"end":28694.32,"text":"驗證合作"},{"start":28695.54,"end":28697.54,"text":"那另外協助業者也接軌國際市場"},{"start":28697.54,"end":28699.54,"text":"那現行的計畫及合作機制"},{"start":28699.54,"end":28701.54,"text":"已經可以"},{"start":28701.54,"end":28703.54,"text":"讓這個"},{"start":28703.54,"end":28705.54,"text":"產業及國際情勢"},{"start":28705.54,"end":28707.54,"text":"來做談判的這個推動"},{"start":28707.54,"end":28709.54,"text":"建立無需令立法規範"},{"start":28709.54,"end":28711.54,"text":"以上"},{"start":28713.31,"end":28715.31,"text":"好,所以一樣喔"},{"start":28715.31,"end":28717.31,"text":"這是保留,那我們一併加速"},{"start":28717.31,"end":28719.31,"text":"所以針對國民黨團體驗第14條"},{"start":28719.31,"end":28721.31,"text":"第17條、第18條、第19條"},{"start":28724.23,"end":28726.23,"text":"經濟部簡單回應就可以"},{"start":28726.23,"end":28728.23,"text":"是建立,因為這個在統籌營相關的計畫裡面"},{"start":28728.23,"end":28730.23,"text":"還有現行的相關的"},{"start":28730.23,"end":28732.23,"text":"扶老機制都已經有了"},{"start":28732.23,"end":28734.23,"text":"所以我們是建立無需立法規範"},{"start":28735.52,"end":28737.52,"text":"好,一樣一併保留"},{"start":28738.01,"end":28740.01,"text":"接下來我們進行台灣民眾黨團體驗第4條"},{"start":28740.01,"end":28742.01,"text":"委員宗教兵"},{"start":28743.53,"end":28745.53,"text":"提案的第3條"},{"start":28745.53,"end":28747.53,"text":"跟委員王定義提案的第4條"},{"start":28747.53,"end":28749.53,"text":"主要是這個"},{"start":28749.53,"end":28751.53,"text":"成立這個"},{"start":28751.53,"end":28753.53,"text":"戰略發展的"},{"start":28753.53,"end":28755.53,"text":"特別委員會"},{"start":28755.53,"end":28757.53,"text":"然後或者是像這個無人載具自主發展委員會"},{"start":28757.53,"end":28759.53,"text":"等等,請經濟部"},{"start":28759.53,"end":28761.53,"text":"好,那這個部分經濟部說明"},{"start":28761.53,"end":28763.53,"text":"那目前行政已經有"},{"start":28764.57,"end":28766.57,"text":"這個核定的統籌型計畫"},{"start":28766.57,"end":28768.57,"text":"那副院長也定期會召開"},{"start":28768.57,"end":28770.57,"text":"無人載具的產業發展及管理的機制"},{"start":28770.57,"end":28772.57,"text":"跨部會的專案會議"},{"start":28772.57,"end":28774.57,"text":"來統籌協調"},{"start":28774.57,"end":28776.57,"text":"推動無人載具的國防自主"},{"start":28776.57,"end":28778.57,"text":"產業發展及民主供應鏈"},{"start":28778.57,"end":28780.57,"text":"等相關的事項"},{"start":28780.76,"end":28782.76,"text":"目前的行政協調的機制主導的層級"},{"start":28782.76,"end":28784.76,"text":"跟參與的成員"},{"start":28784.76,"end":28786.76,"text":"都足以來推動相關的工作"},{"start":28786.76,"end":28788.76,"text":"並有監察管制的"},{"start":28788.76,"end":28790.76,"text":"管考的這個機制"},{"start":28790.76,"end":28792.76,"text":"建立不需要立法,吝嗇委員會"},{"start":28792.76,"end":28794.76,"text":"以上"},{"start":28794.76,"end":28796.76,"text":"我只問一個簡單問題,現在現行的機制"},{"start":28796.76,"end":28798.76,"text":"有外聘的學友專家、人數那些"},{"start":28798.76,"end":28800.76,"text":"有嗎?"},{"start":28800.76,"end":28802.76,"text":"我們在一些"},{"start":28802.76,"end":28804.76,"text":"下面才有"},{"start":28804.76,"end":28806.76,"text":"好,了解現況"},{"start":28806.76,"end":28808.76,"text":"那一樣,一併保留"},{"start":28809.6,"end":28811.6,"text":"接下來的話,台灣民眾黨團"},{"start":28811.6,"end":28813.6,"text":"提案第八條"},{"start":28813.6,"end":28815.6,"text":"委員中家"},{"start":28815.6,"end":28817.6,"text":"對不起,台灣民眾黨團提案的第六條"},{"start":28819.98,"end":28821.98,"text":"好,那這個部分"},{"start":28821.98,"end":28823.98,"text":"超市劇的飛行"},{"start":28823.98,"end":28825.98,"text":"跟夜間飛行、群飛、自主飛行"},{"start":28827.05,"end":28829.05,"text":"等的這些無人機的"},{"start":28829.05,"end":28831.05,"text":"飛航管制的制度已經由"},{"start":28831.05,"end":28833.05,"text":"交通部民航局"},{"start":28833.05,"end":28835.05,"text":"按照民用航空法及相關的法規"},{"start":28835.05,"end":28837.05,"text":"來辦理,並已經納入統籌型"},{"start":28837.05,"end":28839.05,"text":"計畫,持續檢討進進"},{"start":28839.05,"end":28841.05,"text":"建立不需立法來規範"},{"start":28841.05,"end":28843.05,"text":"以上"},{"start":28843.05,"end":28845.05,"text":"一樣,提案保留,接下來的話"},{"start":28845.05,"end":28847.05,"text":"我們看台灣民眾黨團提案第八條"},{"start":28847.05,"end":28849.05,"text":"委員中家賓提案第十條"},{"start":28849.05,"end":28851.05,"text":"王定宇提案的第九條"},{"start":28851.05,"end":28853.05,"text":"主要是在供應鏈分級認證"},{"start":28853.05,"end":28855.05,"text":"跟可信鏈供應鏈"},{"start":28855.67,"end":28857.67,"text":"好,那這一部說明"},{"start":28857.67,"end":28859.67,"text":"國安部採購軍用無人機或"},{"start":28859.95,"end":28861.95,"text":"公務機關採購民用無人機"},{"start":28861.95,"end":28863.95,"text":"應依現行的"},{"start":28863.95,"end":28865.95,"text":"這個軍事"},{"start":28865.95,"end":28867.95,"text":"跟公務的採購規範及"},{"start":28867.95,"end":28869.95,"text":"個案契約要求來辦理"},{"start":28869.81,"end":28871.81,"text":"非用供應鏈的這個管理"},{"start":28871.81,"end":28873.81,"text":"那至於民用無人機"},{"start":28873.81,"end":28875.81,"text":"並由這個經濟部標準檢驗局"},{"start":28875.81,"end":28877.81,"text":"跟交通部的民航局以及"},{"start":28877.81,"end":28879.81,"text":"速發部來分別辦理"},{"start":28879.81,"end":28881.81,"text":"善品檢驗,非常安全"},{"start":28881.81,"end":28883.81,"text":"以及自通安全的相關的檢測"},{"start":28883.81,"end":28885.81,"text":"另外經濟部也已經將外國"},{"start":28885.81,"end":28887.81,"text":"政府及國際認證"},{"start":28887.81,"end":28889.81,"text":"認證的這個機構合作"},{"start":28889.81,"end":28891.81,"text":"納入統籌型計畫中,並支持"},{"start":28891.81,"end":28893.81,"text":"公務員推動GreenUS"},{"start":28893.81,"end":28895.81,"text":"的驗證機制,協助US"},{"start":28895.81,"end":28897.81,"text":"接軌國際市場"},{"start":28897.3,"end":28899.3,"text":"故建立無需立法規範"},{"start":28899.3,"end":28901.3,"text":"以上"},{"start":28900.27,"end":28902.27,"text":"主席"},{"start":28903.07,"end":28905.07,"text":"對於這個供應鏈的分級認證制度呢"},{"start":28905.07,"end":28907.07,"text":"這個是要另案"},{"start":28908.13,"end":28910.13,"text":"好好的來討論啦"},{"start":28910.13,"end":28912.13,"text":"那因為今天那麼多版本"},{"start":28912.13,"end":28914.13,"text":"很多版本聚焦在採購"},{"start":28914.13,"end":28916.13,"text":"那討論到其他的,包括"},{"start":28916.13,"end":28918.13,"text":"本席剛剛的前面14條我已經表達了"},{"start":28918.13,"end":28920.13,"text":"我的版本,我是認為"},{"start":28920.13,"end":28922.13,"text":"有必要,但是可以跟"},{"start":28922.13,"end":28924.13,"text":"無人載具,創新科技"},{"start":28924.13,"end":28926.13,"text":"實驗條例來共同做處理"},{"start":28926.13,"end":28928.13,"text":"那麼至於後面的"},{"start":28928.13,"end":28930.13,"text":"第3條也好,第10條也好"},{"start":28930.13,"end":28932.13,"text":"本席的版本,剛剛有說了不能"},{"start":28932.13,"end":28934.13,"text":"單獨條文保留"},{"start":28934.13,"end":28936.13,"text":"我是會傾向後面我的條文的版本"},{"start":28936.13,"end":28938.13,"text":"那今天溢出了採購方案的版本"},{"start":28938.13,"end":28940.13,"text":"就是保留在本委員會"},{"start":28940.13,"end":28942.13,"text":"我們另日我們會再有提案"},{"start":28942.13,"end":28944.13,"text":"來進行,所以我雖然"},{"start":28944.13,"end":28946.13,"text":"對於民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":28946.13,"end":28948.13,"text":"我並沒有認同是可以"},{"start":28948.13,"end":28950.13,"text":"同意,但是呢"},{"start":28950.13,"end":28952.13,"text":"我也可以接受它保留"},{"start":28952.13,"end":28954.13,"text":"但是我的部分是保留在"},{"start":28954.13,"end":28956.13,"text":"委員會,並只說明"},{"start":28958.67,"end":28960.67,"text":"你是整個版本喔?"},{"start":28961.57,"end":28963.57,"text":"就是你的整個版本而已"},{"start":28963.57,"end":28965.57,"text":"那其他的版本我們就是送"},{"start":28966.82,"end":28968.82,"text":"OK,就是你的版本留在委員會"},{"start":28968.82,"end":28970.82,"text":"OK,好"},{"start":28972.59,"end":28974.59,"text":"好,所以這一個"},{"start":28974.59,"end":28976.59,"text":"一樣,這邊就是保留"},{"start":28979.38,"end":28981.38,"text":"好,接下來的話"},{"start":28981.38,"end":28983.38,"text":"台灣民眾黨團提案第9條"},{"start":28990.27,"end":28992.27,"text":"經濟部說明,有關"},{"start":28992.55,"end":28994.55,"text":"這一條,裡面涉及到"},{"start":28994.55,"end":28996.55,"text":"網路通訊"},{"start":28996.55,"end":28998.55,"text":"平埔的規劃,以及相關"},{"start":28998.55,"end":29000.55,"text":"基礎設施,涉及到"},{"start":29000.55,"end":29002.55,"text":"速發部"},{"start":29001.14,"end":29003.14,"text":"無線電"},{"start":29003.14,"end":29005.14,"text":"頻率規劃與"},{"start":29005.14,"end":29007.14,"text":"核配,還有NCC"},{"start":29007.14,"end":29009.14,"text":"國家通訊傳播委員會的"},{"start":29009.14,"end":29011.14,"text":"通訊傳播及設備器材的"},{"start":29011.14,"end":29013.14,"text":"管理,以及交通部國防部"},{"start":29013.14,"end":29015.14,"text":"等相關機關的權責"},{"start":29015.14,"end":29017.14,"text":"目前均已經有相關的"},{"start":29017.14,"end":29019.14,"text":"法規及機制可以依循"},{"start":29019.14,"end":29021.14,"text":"辦理,建立無需立法"},{"start":29021.14,"end":29023.14,"text":"規範,以上"},{"start":29025.15,"end":29027.15,"text":"所以這個保留,看起來大家都"},{"start":29027.15,"end":29029.15,"text":"想保留"},{"start":29029.15,"end":29031.15,"text":"所以我們現在就從"},{"start":29031.15,"end":29033.15,"text":"第33月開始"},{"start":29033.15,"end":29035.15,"text":"到後面"},{"start":29035.15,"end":29037.15,"text":"其他的法案的部分"},{"start":29039.25,"end":29041.25,"text":"等等,35月不行喔"},{"start":29041.66,"end":29043.66,"text":"35月是國防採購喔"},{"start":29043.66,"end":29045.66,"text":"這個不是產業輔導喔"},{"start":29045.66,"end":29047.66,"text":"我這邊是不是主席給你"},{"start":29047.66,"end":29049.66,"text":"好,那我們就是"},{"start":29049.66,"end":29051.66,"text":"台灣民眾黨團的第九條"},{"start":29051.66,"end":29053.66,"text":"第十條"},{"start":29053.66,"end":29055.66,"text":"一直到台灣民眾黨團的"},{"start":29055.66,"end":29057.66,"text":"第十一條保留"},{"start":29058.58,"end":29060.58,"text":"接下來我們進行的是"},{"start":29061.39,"end":29063.39,"text":"台灣民眾黨團第十二條國防採購"},{"start":29063.39,"end":29065.39,"text":"委員會世保"},{"start":29065.39,"end":29067.39,"text":"第十六條"},{"start":29067.39,"end":29069.39,"text":"宗家兵提案的第八條"},{"start":29069.39,"end":29071.39,"text":"以及王定宇傳譯的第七條"},{"start":29073.54,"end":29075.54,"text":"請"},{"start":29097.09,"end":29099.09,"text":"請"},{"start":29127.1,"end":29129.1,"text":"好,中委員"},{"start":29129.1,"end":29131.1,"text":"雖然本席的第八條"},{"start":29131.1,"end":29133.1,"text":"我剛才也建議本席的本案全案"},{"start":29133.1,"end":29135.1,"text":"保留在委員會"},{"start":29135.1,"end":29137.1,"text":"但是不代表我認同台灣民眾黨的第十二條"},{"start":29137.1,"end":29139.1,"text":"因為這裡面都加"},{"start":29139.1,"end":29141.1,"text":"國防部應如何"},{"start":29141.1,"end":29143.1,"text":"應如何"},{"start":29143.1,"end":29145.1,"text":"這些都是強加"},{"start":29145.1,"end":29147.1,"text":"一些不切實際的採購要求"},{"start":29147.1,"end":29149.1,"text":"國防部現在最需要的"},{"start":29149.1,"end":29151.1,"text":"不是應如何按照這些法令去採購"},{"start":29151.1,"end":29153.1,"text":"是"},{"start":29153.1,"end":29155.1,"text":"需要怎麼樣"},{"start":29155.1,"end":29157.1,"text":"要受到既有的傳統的採購的限制"},{"start":29157.1,"end":29159.1,"text":"這是國防部不需要的"},{"start":29159.1,"end":29161.1,"text":"寫了這麼多原則性的內容"},{"start":29161.1,"end":29163.1,"text":"完全對國防部沒有任何的幫助"},{"start":29163.1,"end":29165.1,"text":"所以呢,本席反對"},{"start":29165.1,"end":29167.1,"text":"第十二條"},{"start":29167.1,"end":29169.1,"text":"那至於第十六條的部分"},{"start":29169.1,"end":29171.1,"text":"這個在世保委員的V版呢"},{"start":29171.1,"end":29173.1,"text":"跟本席的內容是稍微相近"},{"start":29173.1,"end":29175.1,"text":"但是看委員怎麼判斷"},{"start":29175.1,"end":29177.1,"text":"是不是要留在委員會"},{"start":29177.1,"end":29179.1,"text":"以後一起討論"},{"start":29179.1,"end":29181.1,"text":"不然的話,本席是反對民眾黨團第十二條"},{"start":29184.35,"end":29186.35,"text":"好,保留,謝謝"},{"start":29188.1,"end":29190.1,"text":"接下來,第30的"},{"start":29190.1,"end":29192.1,"text":"那至保委員的第17條"},{"start":29206.07,"end":29208.07,"text":"36"},{"start":29209.83,"end":29211.83,"text":"好,跟委員報告"},{"start":29211.83,"end":29213.83,"text":"這個有關公務機"},{"start":29213.83,"end":29215.83,"text":"公務部門採購需求的盤點"},{"start":29215.83,"end":29217.83,"text":"還有國際市場的開發"},{"start":29217.83,"end":29219.83,"text":"以及產業外銷輔導"},{"start":29219.83,"end":29221.83,"text":"等措施已經納入統籌型計畫"},{"start":29221.83,"end":29223.83,"text":"那各政府機關"},{"start":29223.83,"end":29225.83,"text":"公立學校跟公營事業辦理"},{"start":29225.83,"end":29227.83,"text":"無人機的採購,也可以按照"},{"start":29227.83,"end":29229.83,"text":"政府採購法,以及工程會"},{"start":29229.83,"end":29231.83,"text":"訂定的遙控無人機採購"},{"start":29231.83,"end":29233.83,"text":"作業指引來辦理"},{"start":29233.83,"end":29235.83,"text":"均有非榮及國產零主建"},{"start":29235.83,"end":29237.83,"text":"使用的規範,建立不需要"},{"start":29237.83,"end":29239.83,"text":"訂定立法規範,以上"},{"start":29240.21,"end":29242.21,"text":"好,一樣保留送委員會"},{"start":29242.21,"end":29244.21,"text":"接下來,台灣民眾黨團第13條"},{"start":29247.45,"end":29249.45,"text":"好,那第13條"},{"start":29249.45,"end":29251.45,"text":"無人機的產業盤點,技術能量"},{"start":29251.45,"end":29253.45,"text":"檢測的驗證,測試場域"},{"start":29253.45,"end":29255.45,"text":"人才培訓,公務無人機的使用"},{"start":29255.45,"end":29257.45,"text":"共同供應企業,以及國際合作"},{"start":29257.45,"end":29259.45,"text":"等相關的工作"},{"start":29259.45,"end":29261.45,"text":"都已經納入統籌型計畫來推動"},{"start":29262.42,"end":29264.42,"text":"但是因為資料涉及到營業秘密"},{"start":29264.42,"end":29266.42,"text":"國防機閩的資訊"},{"start":29266.3,"end":29268.3,"text":"個人的資料等,考量"},{"start":29268.3,"end":29270.3,"text":"這個資訊集中的資安的風險"},{"start":29270.3,"end":29272.3,"text":"且不宜對外公開,建立"},{"start":29272.3,"end":29274.3,"text":"不需要訂立法規範,以上"},{"start":29276.79,"end":29278.79,"text":"好"},{"start":29278.03,"end":29282.03,"text":"因為我們已經有寫說說你會有涉及國防機閩等等會去市北化公布的"},{"start":29282.03,"end":29284.03,"text":"好,但這還是一律保留啦,好不好"},{"start":29285.16,"end":29287.16,"text":"再來的話,台灣民眾黨團第14條"},{"start":29287.16,"end":29289.16,"text":"鍾嘉斌提案的第16條"},{"start":29289.16,"end":29291.16,"text":"王定宇提案第15條"},{"start":29293.42,"end":29295.42,"text":"法治的部分"},{"start":29296.3,"end":29298.3,"text":"好,那這一條就是"},{"start":29298.3,"end":29300.3,"text":"有關機關辦理採購補助獎勵投融資"},{"start":29300.3,"end":29302.3,"text":"或信用保證等作業"},{"start":29302.3,"end":29304.3,"text":"如發現資格不符"},{"start":29304.3,"end":29306.3,"text":"虛偽造假"},{"start":29306.3,"end":29308.3,"text":"或其他違法的情事"},{"start":29308.3,"end":29310.3,"text":"在政府採購法,產創條例"},{"start":29310.3,"end":29312.3,"text":"以及相關的法令都定有查核跟處分的機制"},{"start":29312.3,"end":29314.3,"text":"那補助案件"},{"start":29314.3,"end":29316.3,"text":"都可以按照產創條例的第九條"},{"start":29316.3,"end":29318.3,"text":"第二項"},{"start":29318.3,"end":29320.3,"text":"授權訂定的補助辦法及契約規定"},{"start":29320.3,"end":29322.3,"text":"辦理查核"},{"start":29322.3,"end":29324.3,"text":"停止撥款,撤銷或廢止補助"},{"start":29324.3,"end":29326.3,"text":"並追回款項"},{"start":29326.3,"end":29328.3,"text":"政府採購法的案件"},{"start":29330.02,"end":29334.02,"text":"也可以按照政府採購法及契約規定辦理履約查核"},{"start":29334.69,"end":29336.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29336.69,"end":29338.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29338.69,"end":29340.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29340.69,"end":29342.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29342.69,"end":29344.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29344.69,"end":29346.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29346.69,"end":29348.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29348.69,"end":29350.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29350.69,"end":29352.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29352.69,"end":29354.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29354.69,"end":29356.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29356.69,"end":29358.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29358.69,"end":29360.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29360.69,"end":29362.69,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29342.51,"end":29344.51,"text":"政府採購法案"},{"start":29344.51,"end":29346.51,"text":"應由採購機關"},{"start":29346.51,"end":29348.51,"text":"補助機構及各目的事業主管機關"},{"start":29348.51,"end":29350.51,"text":"按照權責辦理"},{"start":29350.51,"end":29352.51,"text":"數位發展部"},{"start":29352.51,"end":29354.51,"text":"數位發布既有的無人機資安檢測及認證機制"},{"start":29354.51,"end":29356.51,"text":"數位發布既有的無人機資安檢測及認證機制"},{"start":29356.51,"end":29358.51,"text":"數位發布既有的無人機資安檢測及認證機制"},{"start":29358.51,"end":29360.51,"text":"可以就資安提供協助"},{"start":29360.51,"end":29362.51,"text":"涉及到詐欺偽造文書"},{"start":29362.51,"end":29364.51,"text":"可以就資安提供協助涉及到詐欺偽造文書"},{"start":29364.14,"end":29366.14,"text":"或使公務人員登載不實等情事"},{"start":29366.14,"end":29368.14,"text":"或使公務人員登載不實等情事"},{"start":29368.14,"end":29370.14,"text":"則可以按照刑法等相關規定來處理"},{"start":29370.14,"end":29372.14,"text":"建立無需另立法來規範"},{"start":29372.14,"end":29374.14,"text":"建立無需另立法來規範"},{"start":29374.23,"end":29376.23,"text":"好 一樣保留"},{"start":29376.23,"end":29378.23,"text":"接下來的話我們看第四十頁"},{"start":29378.23,"end":29380.23,"text":"台灣民眾黨團提案第十五條"},{"start":29381.12,"end":29383.12,"text":"好 那這一條有關無人機的產業發展"},{"start":29383.12,"end":29385.12,"text":"空域的管理"},{"start":29385.12,"end":29387.12,"text":"測試場域以及可信任供應鏈"},{"start":29387.12,"end":29389.12,"text":"等相關的工作"},{"start":29389.12,"end":29391.12,"text":"已經納入統籌型計畫推動"},{"start":29391.12,"end":29393.12,"text":"並由相關計畫因遭權責辦理"},{"start":29393.12,"end":29395.12,"text":"建立無需立法規範 以上"},{"start":29396.17,"end":29398.17,"text":"好 一樣保留"},{"start":29398.17,"end":29400.17,"text":"接下來的話 第四十頁"},{"start":29400.17,"end":29402.17,"text":"委員拉四保的第五條"},{"start":29402.17,"end":29404.17,"text":"鍾家斌提案第七條"},{"start":29404.17,"end":29406.17,"text":"王定遠提案的第六條"},{"start":29406.17,"end":29408.17,"text":"租稅優惠"},{"start":29408.17,"end":29410.17,"text":"這個我提醒 處長喔"},{"start":29410.17,"end":29412.17,"text":"這個是鼓勵廠商投入"},{"start":29412.17,"end":29414.17,"text":"無人機產業的發展喔"},{"start":29414.17,"end":29416.17,"text":"你"},{"start":29416.17,"end":29418.17,"text":"緊正回答 你不要"},{"start":29418.17,"end":29420.17,"text":"看到大致上就說 保保的不要的"},{"start":29420.17,"end":29422.17,"text":"不需要不需要"},{"start":29422.17,"end":29424.17,"text":"鼓勵廠商給他一些誘因喔"},{"start":29424.17,"end":29426.17,"text":"你先不要管"},{"start":29426.17,"end":29428.17,"text":"產業部投入同意 就是鼓勵"},{"start":29428.17,"end":29430.17,"text":"不要等明天人家性質做很大"},{"start":29430.17,"end":29432.17,"text":"說經濟部反對"},{"start":29432.17,"end":29434.17,"text":"這個廠商投入"},{"start":29434.17,"end":29436.17,"text":"不獎勵 廠商投入"},{"start":29436.17,"end":29438.17,"text":"無人機產業喔 小心喔"},{"start":29438.17,"end":29440.17,"text":"好 跟我們報告"},{"start":29440.17,"end":29442.17,"text":"並不是說經濟部反對喔"},{"start":29442.17,"end":29444.17,"text":"是現有的機制就已經有"},{"start":29444.17,"end":29446.17,"text":"這些獎勵的措施"},{"start":29446.17,"end":29448.17,"text":"我們評高啦 評你現在好啊"},{"start":29448.17,"end":29450.17,"text":"好 我說明一下"},{"start":29450.17,"end":29452.17,"text":"就是現有的產創條例第十條"},{"start":29452.17,"end":29454.17,"text":"就研發支出的投資抵減"},{"start":29454.17,"end":29456.17,"text":"已經提供這些獎勵的誘因"},{"start":29456.17,"end":29458.17,"text":"那第十條是"},{"start":29458.17,"end":29460.17,"text":"投資抵減多少"},{"start":29460.63,"end":29462.63,"text":"目前是15%"},{"start":29462.63,"end":29464.63,"text":"15% 我25%"},{"start":29464.63,"end":29466.63,"text":"我比你多啊"},{"start":29466.63,"end":29468.63,"text":"對不對 我比你多啦"},{"start":29468.63,"end":29470.63,"text":"又有錢去啊"},{"start":29470.63,"end":29472.63,"text":"另外就是說"},{"start":29472.63,"end":29476.63,"text":"也有針對研發跟設備的支出提高抵減率"},{"start":29476.63,"end":29478.63,"text":"你們是多長"},{"start":29478.72,"end":29480.72,"text":"就20億"},{"start":29480.72,"end":29482.72,"text":"20億可以做投資抵減"},{"start":29482.72,"end":29484.72,"text":"可以做這個投資抵減"},{"start":29484.72,"end":29486.72,"text":"好 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2 3 4項"},{"start":29823.61,"end":29825.61,"text":"連最後第4項條文都沒有寫得很清楚"},{"start":29826.19,"end":29828.19,"text":"這個"},{"start":29827.81,"end":29829.81,"text":"不要把自己降格啦連的話都講出來"},{"start":29829.81,"end":29831.81,"text":"靠追蹤耶"},{"start":29837.9,"end":29839.9,"text":"好所以接下來我稍微念一下"},{"start":29839.9,"end":29841.9,"text":"從第58月開始"},{"start":29841.9,"end":29843.9,"text":"就是委員中加邊的"},{"start":29843.9,"end":29845.9,"text":"提案第9條"},{"start":29845.9,"end":29847.9,"text":"王定義提案的第8條"},{"start":29847.9,"end":29849.9,"text":"接下來中加邊委員提案的第11條"},{"start":29849.9,"end":29851.9,"text":"王定義委員的第10條"},{"start":29853.28,"end":29855.28,"text":"再來中加邊提案的第13條"},{"start":29855.28,"end":29857.28,"text":"王定義委員的第12條"},{"start":29858.66,"end":29860.66,"text":"以及中加邊提案第15條"},{"start":29860.66,"end":29862.66,"text":"王定義等提案的第14條"},{"start":29865.86,"end":29867.86,"text":"還有到這個"},{"start":29867.86,"end":29869.86,"text":"委員王定義提案的第"},{"start":29870.94,"end":29872.94,"text":"第17"},{"start":29876.5,"end":29878.5,"text":"到這邊全部都"},{"start":29878.74,"end":29880.74,"text":"保留"},{"start":29880.66,"end":29882.66,"text":"然後接下來的話是"},{"start":29883.41,"end":29885.41,"text":"國民黨團體案的第20條"},{"start":29891.56,"end":29893.56,"text":"第21條"},{"start":29896.98,"end":29898.98,"text":"第21條應該是那個"},{"start":29902.3,"end":29904.3,"text":"稍微念一下"},{"start":29910.57,"end":29912.57,"text":"好第20條這個是保留"},{"start":29912.57,"end":29914.57,"text":"然後國民黨團體案的第21條"},{"start":29914.57,"end":29916.57,"text":"以及第21條"},{"start":29916.57,"end":29918.57,"text":"政政卷尾的修正動議"},{"start":29918.57,"end":29920.57,"text":"一併保留"},{"start":29923.21,"end":29925.21,"text":"再來"},{"start":29924.72,"end":29926.72,"text":"國民黨團體案的第22條"},{"start":29926.72,"end":29928.72,"text":"實施細則台灣民眾黨"},{"start":29928.72,"end":29930.72,"text":"實施細則這一個應該是保留"},{"start":29932.55,"end":29934.55,"text":"好接下來的話"},{"start":29934.55,"end":29936.55,"text":"到這邊是"},{"start":29936.55,"end":29938.55,"text":"行政院的第7條"},{"start":29938.55,"end":29940.55,"text":"國民黨團體案的第23"},{"start":29940.55,"end":29942.55,"text":"台灣民眾黨的第17"},{"start":29942.55,"end":29944.55,"text":"以及包含"},{"start":29944.54,"end":29946.54,"text":"我一直念到後面"},{"start":29946.54,"end":29948.54,"text":"當然等委員中加邊"},{"start":29948.54,"end":29950.54,"text":"到委員王定義提案"},{"start":29950.54,"end":29952.54,"text":"那主要是這邊"},{"start":29952.54,"end":29954.54,"text":"跟這個實施期間"},{"start":29954.54,"end":29956.54,"text":"所以我想這個也是"},{"start":29956.54,"end":29958.54,"text":"一併保留"},{"start":29963.74,"end":29967.74,"text":"好我們請一併宣讀協商結論"},{"start":29967.74,"end":29969.74,"text":"宣讀協商結論"},{"start":29970.52,"end":29972.52,"text":"除討論事項"},{"start":29972.52,"end":29974.52,"text":"第13案委員中加邊"},{"start":29974.52,"end":29976.52,"text":"黨會實施原理據"},{"start":29976.52,"end":29978.52,"text":"國光自主文宰據採購"},{"start":29978.52,"end":29980.52,"text":"暨產業創建特別條例草案"},{"start":29980.52,"end":29982.52,"text":"陸定級繼續審查外"},{"start":29982.52,"end":29984.52,"text":"區各案之條名稱"},{"start":29984.52,"end":29986.52,"text":"法說條文及修正動議"},{"start":29986.52,"end":29988.52,"text":"均保留上院會協商"},{"start":29988.52,"end":29990.52,"text":"處理商會宣布"},{"start":29994.82,"end":29996.82,"text":"我把它念錯了"},{"start":29996.82,"end":29998.82,"text":"對不起"},{"start":29998.82,"end":30000.82,"text":"抱歉抱歉"},{"start":30000.12,"end":30002.12,"text":"喂出去啊"},{"start":30001.89,"end":30003.89,"text":"我"},{"start":30002.72,"end":30004.72,"text":"我覺得好歹我們坐一天嘛"},{"start":30004.72,"end":30006.72,"text":"有一個公司就有一個公司就沒有了"},{"start":30006.72,"end":30008.72,"text":"最後一條能不能有公司二條"},{"start":30008.72,"end":30010.72,"text":"最後一條時間"},{"start":30010.72,"end":30012.72,"text":"你們行政部門講的不對啊"},{"start":30012.72,"end":30014.72,"text":"你說"},{"start":30014.72,"end":30016.72,"text":"那個特別條例"},{"start":30016.72,"end":30018.72,"text":"預算期間從115年8月以後"},{"start":30018.72,"end":30020.72,"text":"8月就搞了"},{"start":30021.74,"end":30023.74,"text":"所以這個是明顯的不對啊"},{"start":30023.74,"end":30025.74,"text":"這個這個這個"},{"start":30026.75,"end":30028.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30028.75,"end":30030.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30030.75,"end":30032.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30032.75,"end":30034.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30034.75,"end":30036.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30036.75,"end":30038.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30038.75,"end":30040.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30040.75,"end":30042.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30042.75,"end":30044.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30044.75,"end":30046.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30046.75,"end":30048.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30048.75,"end":30050.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30050.75,"end":30052.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30052.75,"end":30054.75,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":30032.56,"end":30036.56,"text":"好請問各位同仁在剛剛宣讀的協商今天通過全有意義"},{"start":30038.21,"end":30040.21,"text":"通過"},{"start":30040.3,"end":30042.3,"text":"然後本日"},{"start":30042.3,"end":30044.3,"text":"必成討論事項處"},{"start":30044.3,"end":30046.3,"text":"第13案"},{"start":30046.3,"end":30048.3,"text":"認定其繼續審查外"},{"start":30048.3,"end":30050.3,"text":"其餘各案並案"},{"start":30050.3,"end":30052.3,"text":"審查完畢明確審查"},{"start":30052.3,"end":30054.3,"text":"報告提到"},{"start":30054.3,"end":30056.3,"text":"院會討論"},{"start":30056.3,"end":30058.3,"text":"請問"},{"start":30058.3,"end":30060.3,"text":"需不需要加油黨團協商"},{"start":30060.3,"end":30062.3,"text":"需加油黨團"},{"start":30062.3,"end":30064.3,"text":"協商院會討論時"},{"start":30064.3,"end":30066.3,"text":"有本席說明"},{"start":30066.3,"end":30068.3,"text":"本次會議事立授權"},{"start":30068.3,"end":30070.3,"text":"及核定後確定"},{"start":30070.3,"end":30072.3,"text":"審查通過之條文"},{"start":30072.3,"end":30074.3,"text":"相關法制用以授權主席及"},{"start":30074.3,"end":30076.3,"text":"議事人員整理"},{"start":30076.3,"end":30078.3,"text":"本日務成處理完畢"},{"start":30078.3,"end":30080.3,"text":"謝謝大家先散會"},{"start":30084.78,"end":30086.78,"text":"謝謝大家先散會"},{"start":30091.33,"end":30093.33,"text":"謝謝大家先散會"},{"start":30094.3,"end":30096.3,"text":"不要光光在那邊"},{"start":30097.14,"end":30099.14,"text":"不要空包蛋"},{"start":30099.14,"end":30101.14,"text":"不要假食料"},{"start":30101.14,"end":30103.14,"text":"不要空包蛋"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":5370.49,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_00","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":2965.78,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_01","speaker":"SPEAKER_01","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":2558.01,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_02","speaker":"SPEAKER_02","embedding":"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