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和平詢答"},{"start":2067.41,"end":2068.89,"text":"委員林楚英等33人"},{"start":2068.89,"end":2069.73,"text":"提出質詢"},{"start":2069.73,"end":2071.33,"text":"經由國防部部長顧立雄等"},{"start":2071.33,"end":2072.29,"text":"及其答復"},{"start":2072.29,"end":2073.97,"text":"登記發言委員除不在場之外"},{"start":2073.97,"end":2076.0099999999998,"text":"其餘發言完畢 詢答結束"},{"start":2076.05,"end":2078.17,"text":"委員劉美齡 林德福 林思明"},{"start":2078.17,"end":2080.21,"text":"傅坤琦 張家俊及蘇晶全"},{"start":2080.21,"end":2082.8100000000004,"text":"所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":2082.8100000000004,"end":2084.4900000000002,"text":"書面質詢和未及答復部分"},{"start":2084.4900000000002,"end":2086.01,"text":"請相關單位於一週內"},{"start":2086.01,"end":2087.8100000000004,"text":"以書面答復並複製本會"},{"start":2087.8100000000004,"end":2089.8500000000004,"text":"委員命委要求期限者重啟鎖定"},{"start":2089.8500000000004,"end":2091.05,"text":"決議 詢答結束"},{"start":2091.05,"end":2092.2900000000004,"text":"另定期繼續審查"},{"start":2092.2900000000004,"end":2093.21,"text":"散會 宣布完畢"},{"start":2094.41,"end":2095.81,"text":"好 請問各位同仁"},{"start":2095.81,"end":2097.41,"text":"上次會議是有抽"},{"start":2098.85,"end":2100.21,"text":"好 沒有錯誤的話"},{"start":2100.21,"end":2101.41,"text":"我們醫師陸決定"},{"start":2102.68,"end":2104.52,"text":"那我們繼續進行討論事項"},{"start":2104.52,"end":2105.72,"text":"請一併宣讀"},{"start":2132.64,"end":2134.44,"text":"請一併宣讀"},{"start":2162.64,"end":2164.44,"text":"請一併宣讀"},{"start":2169.99,"end":2171.99,"text":"好 介紹一下在場的委員"},{"start":2171.99,"end":2173.43,"text":"有陳廷飛委員"},{"start":2173.43,"end":2174.6299999999997,"text":"賴世保委員"},{"start":2174.6299999999997,"end":2175.95,"text":"陳永康委員"},{"start":2175.95,"end":2177.35,"text":"鄭政前委員"},{"start":2178.09,"end":2179.69,"text":"然後出席的機關首長"},{"start":2179.69,"end":2181.57,"text":"經濟部政務次長何金昌"},{"start":2182.58,"end":2184.94,"text":"產發署副署長周宇新"},{"start":2185.65,"end":2187.69,"text":"標準局組長陳成章"},{"start":2188.65,"end":2190.85,"text":"國發會副處長陳雄華"},{"start":2193.21,"end":2196.41,"text":"行政院國藥方針基金管理委員會"},{"start":2196.41,"end":2197.73,"text":"副執秘師名聲"},{"start":2198.61,"end":2200.33,"text":"國防部部長顧立雄"},{"start":2202.02,"end":2205.98,"text":"蘇丹部資通安全署主任秘書陳慧平"},{"start":2208.92,"end":2211.6,"text":"川安部行政司決論紀政楊博文"},{"start":2212.43,"end":2216.5099999999998,"text":"行政公公公準委會企劃處副處長陳仲佑"},{"start":2217.81,"end":2221.33,"text":"國科會工程技術發展處專委張嘉煩"},{"start":2222.42,"end":2224.7400000000002,"text":"財政部副處長副署長雷立新"},{"start":2225.69,"end":2228.37,"text":"行政院主計總處專委陳台偉"},{"start":2229.18,"end":2231.46,"text":"法律部法制私參事料將限"},{"start":2235.9,"end":2237.38,"text":"我們的莊嘉賓委員"},{"start":2245.12,"end":2248.64,"text":"本日議程排定審查行政院的版本"},{"start":2248.64,"end":2251.36,"text":"各黨團及各委員所提示案"},{"start":2251.36,"end":2253.92,"text":"其中行政院國民黨黨團"},{"start":2253.92,"end":2257.24,"text":"民眾黨黨團及委員鄰群等人之提案"},{"start":2257.24,"end":2260.56,"text":"於本會期7月16日詢答結束"},{"start":2260.56,"end":2264.44,"text":"之後院會又交付聯席委員會審查等實案"},{"start":2264.44,"end":2266.64,"text":"那麼今日合併審查"},{"start":2268.02,"end":2272.9,"text":"本次會議針對院會新交付審查頂十案"},{"start":2272.9,"end":2276.9,"text":"請提案委員說明提案的要旨"},{"start":2276.9,"end":2280.1,"text":"根據委員的這個提案說明順序"},{"start":2280.1,"end":2283.38,"text":"首先的話是有請賴世保委員"},{"start":2283.38,"end":2285.18,"text":"第二位莊嘉賓委員準備"},{"start":2285.18,"end":2287.82,"text":"第三位是賴瑞龍委員請準備"},{"start":2288.84,"end":2289.6800000000003,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":2294.9,"end":2296.2200000000003,"text":"診斷發言"},{"start":2299.44,"end":2303,"text":"不用不用我們請賴世保委員自己做決定"},{"start":2307.72,"end":2308.56,"text":"千萬不要"},{"start":2311.69,"end":2315.73,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進"},{"start":2316.42,"end":2319.7400000000002,"text":"謝謝因為我的案子剛進來"},{"start":2319.7400000000002,"end":2321.62,"text":"所以有這個說明"},{"start":2321.62,"end":2322.82,"text":"其實我是兩個案子"},{"start":2322.82,"end":2324.58,"text":"但是中心思想是一樣的"},{"start":2325.2599999999998,"end":2329.2999999999997,"text":"那麼中心思想就是要讓無人載具"},{"start":2329.2999999999997,"end":2332.8199999999997,"text":"他的技術能夠在台灣能夠升級"},{"start":2333.39,"end":2334.5499999999997,"text":"旅遊如下"},{"start":2334.5499999999997,"end":2335.63,"text":"那麼第一點"},{"start":2335.63,"end":2339.15,"text":"現在看到國防部提了這個特別條例"},{"start":2339.15,"end":2341.11,"text":"行政院提了這個特別條例"},{"start":2341.72,"end":2345.72,"text":"他就是要買二十億萬架的無人機"},{"start":2346.42,"end":2348.3,"text":"還有無人艇大概上千"},{"start":2348.94,"end":2352.14,"text":"上千架上千台的無人艇"},{"start":2352.14,"end":2356.62,"text":"可是你看到二十億萬架的無人機"},{"start":2356.62,"end":2359.98,"text":"基本上都是比較低階的"},{"start":2359.98,"end":2361.42,"text":"基礎層次是低的"},{"start":2362.55,"end":2364.51,"text":"那麼現在來講的話"},{"start":2364.51,"end":2365.8700000000003,"text":"來講就有一個現象"},{"start":2366.88,"end":2368.96,"text":"這個經濟部的核次長在這裡"},{"start":2369.68,"end":2371.2799999999997,"text":"在前一陣子來講"},{"start":2371.2799999999997,"end":2372.72,"text":"很大聲的"},{"start":2372.72,"end":2374.68,"text":"這個也垮垮而談"},{"start":2374.68,"end":2377.04,"text":"說我們無人機的產業發展得多好"},{"start":2378.33,"end":2379.25,"text":"我們去年"},{"start":2379.9,"end":2383.58,"text":"有一百多億的產值是前年的2.5倍"},{"start":2384.3,"end":2387.0600000000004,"text":"然後行政院剛通過了"},{"start":2387.7799999999997,"end":2390.22,"text":"預算先跑了"},{"start":2390.22,"end":2391.8999999999996,"text":"就是未來的幾年"},{"start":2391.8999999999996,"end":2394.7,"text":"要編了442億"},{"start":2394.7,"end":2397.3799999999997,"text":"來輔助這個無人機的產業"},{"start":2398.13,"end":2399.3700000000003,"text":"所以你可以看"},{"start":2399.3700000000003,"end":2401.3700000000003,"text":"這個政府就是行政部門"},{"start":2401.3700000000003,"end":2403.09,"text":"拼命在丟錢給現在"},{"start":2403.09,"end":2406.73,"text":"我們的無人機的產業這些廠商"},{"start":2406.73,"end":2410.4500000000003,"text":"廠商的幾家有267家之多"},{"start":2411.3,"end":2412.94,"text":"丟給他們什麼"},{"start":2415.48,"end":2416.36,"text":"你們是甚麼"},{"start":2417.31,"end":2418.97,"text":"這個不就給殺不了就好了"},{"start":2419.62,"end":2421.62,"text":"這不是訂單的就給錢就好了"},{"start":2424.07,"end":2427.8300000000004,"text":"那為什麼全部給這個267家通通可以給嗎?"},{"start":2427.8300000000004,"end":2429.17,"text":"天女三花"},{"start":2429.79,"end":2431.79,"text":"267家通通給嗎?"},{"start":2432.29,"end":2434.29,"text":"我想不死的,你要認真講的話!"},{"start":2435.25,"end":2438.25,"text":"無人宰居的產業一定有一個龍頭"},{"start":2438.25,"end":2440.93,"text":"所以應該是幾家的龍頭"},{"start":2440.93,"end":2444.53,"text":"比如說我們中科院就很適合當這個龍頭"},{"start":2444.53,"end":2447.25,"text":"中科院就很適合來整個來講"},{"start":2447.25,"end":2449.81,"text":"他來主導,然後他帶著一串"},{"start":2451.09,"end":2455.8500000000004,"text":"這個才是一個發展無人機產業的一個實際的情況"},{"start":2455.8500000000004,"end":2457.01,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":2457.01,"end":2459.65,"text":"台灣目前無人機的廠商"},{"start":2459.65,"end":2463.81,"text":"所謂無人機產業,廠商有267家"},{"start":2464.79,"end":2466.79,"text":"267家是多"},{"start":2467.88,"end":2473.32,"text":"可是真正能夠整機來handle的沒有幾家了"},{"start":2473.32,"end":2476,"text":"就是說可以當頭的這幾家"},{"start":2476.47,"end":2478.5099999999998,"text":"好了,那這個結果會是怎麼樣?"},{"start":2479.07,"end":2481.07,"text":"如果按照這樣的邏輯來講的話"},{"start":2481.07,"end":2486.79,"text":"那就少數幾家會拿到政府2100億的訂單"},{"start":2486.79,"end":2488.79,"text":"因為他要發給其他的"},{"start":2488.86,"end":2492.3,"text":"所以整個來講的話就會產生一個現象"},{"start":2492.3,"end":2495.94,"text":"就是當這些龍頭只有少數幾家的時候"},{"start":2495.94,"end":2498.82,"text":"其他的人就會講了幾個字"},{"start":2498.82,"end":2501.1800000000003,"text":"我安安命,為什麼沒有我的份"},{"start":2501.8,"end":2503.84,"text":"這是第一個我安安命"},{"start":2503.95,"end":2508.1099999999997,"text":"第二個程度呢,要再分下去的時候"},{"start":2508.1099999999997,"end":2509.5499999999997,"text":"也是有一些吃不到"},{"start":2509.5499999999997,"end":2512.5099999999998,"text":"他不可能267家都吃到這個錢"},{"start":2512.5099999999998,"end":2514.5099999999998,"text":"然後一樣,還安命"},{"start":2515.22,"end":2518.8199999999997,"text":"但在這個之外,無人機產業之外"},{"start":2518.8199999999997,"end":2520.8199999999997,"text":"比如說工具企業"},{"start":2520.67,"end":2523.3900000000003,"text":"比如說傳統的跟機器有關係的"},{"start":2523.3900000000003,"end":2526.27,"text":"或者跟自動貨有關係的廠商"},{"start":2526.27,"end":2529.07,"text":"也會講,為什麼我沒有呢?"},{"start":2529.07,"end":2531.07,"text":"各位"},{"start":2530.15,"end":2534.15,"text":"我們這一次行政院給了21億"},{"start":2536.46,"end":2538.5,"text":"這個無人宰巨"},{"start":2538.76,"end":2542.76,"text":"其實道地的天理,這個叫要錦上添花"},{"start":2543.43,"end":2545.47,"text":"我沒有吃到"},{"start":2545.04,"end":2547.04,"text":"經濟部不斷的強調"},{"start":2547.04,"end":2549.68,"text":"我們現在多好,前陣子也看到自己那個新聞了"},{"start":2550.5,"end":2556.78,"text":"我們有廠商賣給少女阿嬤婆5千叫的無人機"},{"start":2556.78,"end":2560.38,"text":"然後最近又哪一家得到什麼國外的訂單"},{"start":2560.96,"end":2564.4,"text":"就以我們來講,廠商都已經可以"},{"start":2564.4,"end":2569.16,"text":"以現在的技術,賣給世界其他國家,也有外銷"},{"start":2569.16,"end":2572.04,"text":"這是經濟部一直強調的戰績"},{"start":2572.04,"end":2574.36,"text":"說我們現在無人機產業發展的多好"},{"start":2574.36,"end":2577.7200000000003,"text":"可以變成第二座的富國神車"},{"start":2577.7200000000003,"end":2579.7200000000003,"text":"我們的同意,好不好?"},{"start":2579.99,"end":2581.99,"text":"那有必要再給它訂單嗎?"},{"start":2581.99,"end":2583.99,"text":"所以現在需要什麼?"},{"start":2584.56,"end":2588.7599999999998,"text":"現在的國內無人機產業最需要的就是什麼?"},{"start":2589.36,"end":2591.4,"text":"給它技術升級"},{"start":2592.16,"end":2596,"text":"技術升級就是我這兩個提案的中性思想"},{"start":2596,"end":2598,"text":"我一個提案"},{"start":2597.41,"end":2600.5699999999997,"text":"就是,促進無人機"},{"start":2601.45,"end":2603.49,"text":"的產業發展條例"},{"start":2604.32,"end":2606.7200000000003,"text":"我的基本精神就比較過去"},{"start":2607.34,"end":2609.38,"text":"蔡英文"},{"start":2608.79,"end":2613.0299999999997,"text":"還沒到總統之前,跟王金平院長共同推的"},{"start":2613.89,"end":2617.85,"text":"生物產生氣產業發展條例"},{"start":2617.85,"end":2620.33,"text":"裡面我的內容幾乎都跟他"},{"start":2622.86,"end":2624.9,"text":"Follow他的精神"},{"start":2625.33,"end":2627.73,"text":"所以台灣的生技產業也發展一陣子"},{"start":2627.73,"end":2631.41,"text":"當然生技產業到後來,最後一定要看到的成果"},{"start":2631.41,"end":2634.29,"text":"這個成果好像是無論打誰,都不管怎麼樣"},{"start":2634.93,"end":2636.97,"text":"有一個條例在哪裡?"},{"start":2636.67,"end":2638.71,"text":"所以我是根據"},{"start":2638.5099999999998,"end":2640.5099999999998,"text":"那個條例的精神,我提了"},{"start":2640.5099999999998,"end":2644.5099999999998,"text":"讓無人載具產業"},{"start":2644.5099999999998,"end":2646.5099999999998,"text":"無人載具,不是無人機而已"},{"start":2646.5099999999998,"end":2648.5099999999998,"text":"無人機,無人亭"},{"start":2648.68,"end":2650.72,"text":"還有自動駕駛車輛等等的"},{"start":2652.0099999999998,"end":2654.0099999999998,"text":"這些通通在我的範圍裡面"},{"start":2654.0099999999998,"end":2656.0099999999998,"text":"各位可以看我的條例"},{"start":2656.0099999999998,"end":2658.0099999999998,"text":"第一條就講得非常清楚"},{"start":2658.0099999999998,"end":2660.0099999999998,"text":"所以一個"},{"start":2659.47,"end":2662.47,"text":"無人載具的產業發展條例"},{"start":2662.47,"end":2664.47,"text":"那就是希望"},{"start":2664.47,"end":2666.47,"text":"能夠我們對於"},{"start":2666.47,"end":2668.47,"text":"要"},{"start":2667.83,"end":2669.87,"text":"投資"},{"start":2669.27,"end":2673.27,"text":"在無人載具技術的申請方面"},{"start":2673.27,"end":2675.27,"text":"我們給他一些的補助"},{"start":2675.27,"end":2677.27,"text":"或者比如說利息的補貼"},{"start":2677.27,"end":2679.27,"text":"比如說租稅的減免等等"},{"start":2679.27,"end":2680.27,"text":"等等"},{"start":2680.27,"end":2682.27,"text":"這是一個案子"},{"start":2682.27,"end":2684.27,"text":"另外一個案子,一樣"},{"start":2684.27,"end":2686.27,"text":"他終於是這樣,就是要技術申請"},{"start":2686.42,"end":2688.42,"text":"另外一個案子就是"},{"start":2688.42,"end":2690.42,"text":"我們跟國外的先進國家"},{"start":2690.42,"end":2692.42,"text":"賣"},{"start":2691.54,"end":2693.58,"text":"這個無人機,無人載具"},{"start":2695.46,"end":2696.5,"text":"賣,無人機"},{"start":2697.04,"end":2699.08,"text":"拿刀,刀,刀,刀"},{"start":2699.02,"end":2700.02,"text":"一定要有一個"},{"start":2700.02,"end":2702.02,"text":"offset 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":4504.5,"end":4506.5,"text":"對台灣有侵略意圖的中共而已"},{"start":4506.5,"end":4508.5,"text":"唯一有支持台灣"},{"start":4508.5,"end":4509.5,"text":"唯有支持我們的國防"},{"start":4509.5,"end":4511.5,"text":"唯有支持我們的產業"},{"start":4511.54,"end":4512.54,"text":"唯有支持我們的產業"},{"start":4512.54,"end":4515.54,"text":"我相信這是台灣人民共同的期待"},{"start":4515.54,"end":4517.54,"text":"那也希望大家一起來"},{"start":4517.54,"end":4518.54,"text":"支持我們的國軍"},{"start":4518.54,"end":4520.54,"text":"支持我們的台灣"},{"start":4520.54,"end":4523.54,"text":"支持我們的產業"},{"start":4523.54,"end":4525.54,"text":"忠於國家忠於人民"},{"start":4525.54,"end":4527.54,"text":"希望各位朝野立委一起努力"},{"start":4529.03,"end":4529.99,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":4529.99,"end":4530.99,"text":"來月龍"},{"start":4531.85,"end":4534.85,"text":"那麼現在進行足條討論"},{"start":4534.85,"end":4536.85,"text":"請議事人員宣讀所有條文"},{"start":4536.85,"end":4538.85,"text":"六月薛政東以及附帶決議"},{"start":4538.85,"end":4540.85,"text":"請一併宣讀"},{"start":4540.85,"end":4542.85,"text":"宣讀完畢後再進行協商"},{"start":4542.85,"end":4543.85,"text":"請宣讀"},{"start":4545.75,"end":4546.75,"text":"法案名稱"},{"start":4546.75,"end":4547.75,"text":"行政院提案"},{"start":4547.75,"end":4550.75,"text":"國防自主無人載具採購特別條例"},{"start":4550.75,"end":4551.75,"text":"國民黨黨團提案"},{"start":4551.75,"end":4553.75,"text":"國防自主無人載具"},{"start":4553.75,"end":4556.75,"text":"科技發展及採購條例"},{"start":4556.75,"end":4557.75,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案"},{"start":4557.75,"end":4559.75,"text":"強化國防自主"},{"start":4559.75,"end":4563.75,"text":"暨無人產業發展條例"},{"start":4563.75,"end":4565.75,"text":"委員林楚英委員陳樹月"},{"start":4565.75,"end":4567.75,"text":"委員蔡玉宇委員林楚英"},{"start":4567.75,"end":4569.75,"text":"委員吳思陽委員賴瑞榮"},{"start":4569.75,"end":4571.75,"text":"委員李坤城等人提案"},{"start":4571.75,"end":4573.75,"text":"軍統行政院提案"},{"start":4573.75,"end":4575.75,"text":"委員賴思寶等人提案"},{"start":4575.75,"end":4577.75,"text":"國防戰略無人載具"},{"start":4577.75,"end":4580.75,"text":"國外採購技術合作特別條例"},{"start":4580.75,"end":4582.75,"text":"委員賴思寶等人提案"},{"start":4583.85,"end":4585.85,"text":"無人載具產業升級發展條例"},{"start":4585.85,"end":4587.85,"text":"委員鍾佳斌等人提案"},{"start":4587.85,"end":4592.85,"text":"國防自主無人載具採購技產業創建特別條例"},{"start":4592.85,"end":4593.85,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案"},{"start":4593.85,"end":4595.85,"text":"同委員鍾佳斌等人提案"},{"start":4596.88,"end":4598.88,"text":"行政院"},{"start":4599.13,"end":4604.13,"text":"提案第一條面對敵情威脅日益嚴峻及新型"},{"start":4604.9,"end":4606.9,"text":"新型態戰爭趨勢"},{"start":4606.9,"end":4612.9,"text":"為建置國軍大量無人載具執行偵查及精準攻擊等任務"},{"start":4612.9,"end":4614.9,"text":"同時厚植國防產業"},{"start":4614.9,"end":4616.9,"text":"打造飛鴻供應鏈提升嚇阻能力"},{"start":4616.9,"end":4619.9,"text":"確保國家安全及國防自主能力"},{"start":4619.9,"end":4620.9,"text":"特制定本條例"},{"start":4620.9,"end":4622.9,"text":"國民黨提議案第一條"},{"start":4622.9,"end":4625.9,"text":"為因應新世代科技戰爭形態"},{"start":4625.9,"end":4628.9,"text":"強化臺灣國防支部對稱戰力"},{"start":4628.9,"end":4632.9,"text":"推動軍民通用科技雙向轉移"},{"start":4632.9,"end":4637.9,"text":"引導民間卓越知識通訊與經濟機械產能"},{"start":4637.9,"end":4639.9,"text":"投入國防產業"},{"start":4639.9,"end":4643.9,"text":"落實國防自主與產業升級之雙重效益"},{"start":4643.9,"end":4645.9,"text":"並建立符合民主供應鏈標準"},{"start":4645.9,"end":4646.9,"text":"排除"},{"start":4647.59,"end":4650.59,"text":"高風險供應鏈特制定本條例"},{"start":4650.59,"end":4652.59,"text":"臺灣民政黨團提案第一條"},{"start":4652.59,"end":4654.59,"text":"為接軌先進空中交通"},{"start":4654.59,"end":4656.59,"text":"充實國防自主能力"},{"start":4656.59,"end":4660.59,"text":"廣納民間技術帶動臺灣無人機產業升級"},{"start":4660.59,"end":4665.59,"text":"協助本土業者利用產業垂直分工與產業聚落優勢"},{"start":4665.59,"end":4672.59,"text":"進入國際可信任供應鏈和提升軍民通用技術及產業轉型發展"},{"start":4672.59,"end":4673.59,"text":"特制定本條例"},{"start":4673.59,"end":4675.59,"text":"本條例為規定者"},{"start":4678.73,"end":4679.73,"text":"委員林楚英"},{"start":4679.73,"end":4680.73,"text":"委員陳樹葉"},{"start":4680.73,"end":4681.73,"text":"委員蔡玉宇"},{"start":4681.73,"end":4682.73,"text":"委員林楚英"},{"start":4682.73,"end":4683.73,"text":"委員吳詩瑤"},{"start":4686.35,"end":4688.35,"text":"委員宗教兵等人提案"},{"start":4688.35,"end":4689.35,"text":"軍同行政院提案"},{"start":4689.35,"end":4690.35,"text":"委員賴瑞榮"},{"start":4691.38,"end":4692.38,"text":"委員林楚英"},{"start":4693.07,"end":4694.07,"text":"第三句"},{"start":4694.07,"end":4700.07,"text":"同時發展軍民兩用科技建立自主生產能力"},{"start":4700.07,"end":4701.07,"text":"打造飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":4701.07,"end":4702.07,"text":"提升嚇阻能力"},{"start":4702.07,"end":4703.07,"text":"發展民生經濟"},{"start":4703.07,"end":4705.07,"text":"確保國家安全"},{"start":4705.07,"end":4709.07,"text":"國人生命財產安全及國防自主能力"},{"start":4709.07,"end":4710.07,"text":"與同行政院提案"},{"start":4710.07,"end":4712.07,"text":"委員賴思保等人提案第一條"},{"start":4712.07,"end":4716.07,"text":"面對國防安全情勢日益嚴峻及新型態戰爭趨勢"},{"start":4716.07,"end":4719.07,"text":"為強化我國情報監視"},{"start":4719.07,"end":4722.07,"text":"精準打擊之多層嚇阻能力"},{"start":4722.07,"end":4727.07,"text":"並結合美國及其他國家之先進戰略無人載具"},{"start":4727.07,"end":4729.07,"text":"服役技術移轉及工業合作"},{"start":4729.07,"end":4733.07,"text":"提升我國無人載具產業自主研發"},{"start":4733.07,"end":4737.07,"text":"產製及維修能量確保國家安全與國防"},{"start":4738.41,"end":4740.41,"text":"自主特制定本條例"},{"start":4740.41,"end":4742.41,"text":"委員賴思保等人提案第一條"},{"start":4742.41,"end":4748.41,"text":"為促進我國無人載具產業技術自主產業升級及國際競爭力"},{"start":4748.41,"end":4751.41,"text":"推動無人機自動駕駛車輛無人水面"},{"start":4752.45,"end":4756.45,"text":"及水下載具及相關智慧載具之研發"},{"start":4756.45,"end":4760.45,"text":"製造與商業應用成為帶動經濟轉型"},{"start":4760.45,"end":4763.45,"text":"之關鍵產業特制定本條例"},{"start":4763.98,"end":4765.98,"text":"委員李昆城等人提案"},{"start":4765.98,"end":4772.98,"text":"拒守面對境外對勢力威脅日益嚴峻及其新型態戰爭"},{"start":4773.29,"end":4775.29,"text":"趨勢與同行政院提案"},{"start":4775.29,"end":4777.29,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第一條"},{"start":4777.29,"end":4782.29,"text":"為因應國防安全威脅後時不對稱作戰能力與災防韌性"},{"start":4782.29,"end":4787.29,"text":"建構我國無人載具自主及安全可信賴支供應鏈"},{"start":4787.29,"end":4792.29,"text":"帶動居民通用技術及產業轉型發展特制定本條例"},{"start":4793.27,"end":4795.27,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第二條"},{"start":4795.27,"end":4798.27,"text":"無人載具產業發展依本條例之規定"},{"start":4798.27,"end":4802.27,"text":"本條例未規定者適用其他有關法律之規定"},{"start":4802.27,"end":4808.27,"text":"但其他法律規定較本條例更有利者適用最有利之法律"},{"start":4810.52,"end":4813.52,"text":"行政院提案第二條本條例之主管機關為國防部"},{"start":4813.52,"end":4817.52,"text":"國民黨提案第二條本條例之主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":4817.52,"end":4821.52,"text":"本條例所稱主辦機關為經濟部國防部"},{"start":4821.52,"end":4825.52,"text":"本條例涉及國防採購研發補助關鍵技術進口"},{"start":4825.52,"end":4829.52,"text":"資安審查及測試場域化設等事項"},{"start":4829.52,"end":4834.52,"text":"由主管機關會同國防部及有關機關共同辦理"},{"start":4834.52,"end":4838.52,"text":"民眾黨團提案第三條本條例之中央主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":4838.52,"end":4841.52,"text":"涉及國防運用事項為國防部"},{"start":4841.52,"end":4843.52,"text":"地方主管機關為直轄縣市政府"},{"start":4843.52,"end":4847.52,"text":"本條例及飛航安全空域管理"},{"start":4847.52,"end":4849.52,"text":"資通安全頻率使用政府採購"},{"start":4849.52,"end":4853.52,"text":"緊正消防防災農業海巡環境"},{"start":4854.85,"end":4859.85,"text":"關鍵基礎設施地方場域或其他目的事業事項"},{"start":4859.85,"end":4863.85,"text":"由中央各目的事業主管機關依全責辦理"},{"start":4863.85,"end":4869.85,"text":"委員林楚英委員陳樹月委員蔡玉宇委員林依瑾委員吳思瑤委員賴瑞榮"},{"start":4869.85,"end":4872.85,"text":"委員李坤城委員鍾嘉斌等人提案"},{"start":4874.02,"end":4877.02,"text":"同行政院提案委員賴世寶等人提案第二條"},{"start":4877.02,"end":4883.02,"text":"除第二項本條例所技術移轉工業合作及產業升級事項"},{"start":4883.02,"end":4885.02,"text":"由國防部會同經濟部辦理"},{"start":4885.02,"end":4888.02,"text":"並得邀及國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":4888.02,"end":4893.02,"text":"國家中山科學研究院及相關法人業界協同推動"},{"start":4893.02,"end":4896.02,"text":"與同行政院提案委員賴世寶等人提案第三條"},{"start":4896.02,"end":4902.02,"text":"本條例主管機關為經濟部並設五人載具產業發展推動委員會"},{"start":4902.02,"end":4904.02,"text":"統籌跨部會協調事宜"},{"start":4904.02,"end":4908.02,"text":"本條例所設四項依其業務性質"},{"start":4908.02,"end":4912.02,"text":"由交通部、國防部、農業部、環境部、國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":4912.02,"end":4917.02,"text":"財政部及其他中央目的事業主管機關依職長辦理"},{"start":4917.02,"end":4919.02,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第三條"},{"start":4919.02,"end":4922.02,"text":"本條例所稱中央主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":4922.02,"end":4925.02,"text":"設其國防軍用採購四項為國防部"},{"start":4926.08,"end":4928.08,"text":"行政院提案第三條"},{"start":4928.08,"end":4936.08,"text":"本條例所稱國防自主無人載具採購只主管機關及其所屬其官購部隊"},{"start":4936.08,"end":4942.08,"text":"辦理經行政院核定採購第四條所訂項目之主要裝備系統"},{"start":4942.08,"end":4946.08,"text":"於其資源系統之獲得產自維修工程"},{"start":4947.11,"end":4950.11,"text":"國民黨提案第三條"},{"start":4971.73,"end":4974.73,"text":"本條例所稱中央主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":4974.73,"end":4975.73,"text":"設其國防部"},{"start":4975.73,"end":4980.73,"text":"行政院核定採購只主管機關及其所屬其官購部隊"},{"start":4980.73,"end":4985.73,"text":"辦理經行政院核定採購第四條所訂項目之主要裝備系統"},{"start":4985.73,"end":4988.73,"text":"於其資源系統之獲得產自維修工程"},{"start":4988.73,"end":4991.73,"text":"於其資源系統之獲得產自維修工程"},{"start":4991.73,"end":4994.73,"text":"於其資源系統之獲得產自維修工程"},{"start":4994.73,"end":4997.73,"text":"於其資源系統之獲得產自維修工程"},{"start":4973.38,"end":4975.38,"text":"軍用商規"},{"start":4975.38,"end":4977.38,"text":"二軍用商規無人載具"},{"start":4977.38,"end":4982.38,"text":"只以商用規格之零組件為基礎"},{"start":4982.38,"end":4985.38,"text":"依軍事需求進行適應性改良"},{"start":4985.38,"end":4987.38,"text":"並符合一定干擾"},{"start":4988.33,"end":4994.33,"text":"抗干擾、抗電池脈衝及戰場存活率標準之無人載具"},{"start":4994.33,"end":4996.33,"text":"三軍民公用測試場域"},{"start":4996.33,"end":5000.33,"text":"由國防部、會同地方政府及產業界共同設置"},{"start":5000.33,"end":5007.33,"text":"公軍方及民間業者共同使用之無人載具飛機"},{"start":5007.33,"end":5010.33,"text":"航空及作戰模擬測試場域"},{"start":5010.33,"end":5012.33,"text":"視國防國產化比例"},{"start":5012.33,"end":5016.33,"text":"指無人載具於設計、製造、組裝及關鍵零組件"},{"start":5016.33,"end":5020.33,"text":"供應過程中原自台灣本土廠商資產"},{"start":5020.33,"end":5021.33,"text":"指比例"},{"start":5022.05,"end":5024.05,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團提案"},{"start":5024.05,"end":5025.05,"text":"第二條"},{"start":5025.05,"end":5030.05,"text":"本條例所指無人機指無人飛機、無人直升機、無人多懸翼機"},{"start":5030.05,"end":5035.05,"text":"以及其他經交通部民用航空局公告者"},{"start":5035.05,"end":5037.05,"text":"本條例所稱無人機產業"},{"start":5037.05,"end":5042.05,"text":"指從事全機系統整合、飛行載具模組、動力模組"},{"start":5042.43,"end":5046.43,"text":"籌載模組、通訊模組、地面導控模組、飛控模組"},{"start":5047.73,"end":5050.73,"text":"與相關服務應用資產業"},{"start":5050.73,"end":5057.73,"text":"本條例所稱可信任供應鏈指無人機系統及其關鍵零組件原料"},{"start":5057.73,"end":5063.73,"text":"其來源供應及管理符合主管機關所訂製安全要求"},{"start":5063.73,"end":5069.73,"text":"並符合主管機關公告之可信任供應鏈分級認證制度"},{"start":5069.73,"end":5073.73,"text":"委員林楚英、委員陳樹月、委員蔡玉瑜、委員林怡錦、委員吳思堯"},{"start":5073.73,"end":5077.73,"text":"委員賴瑞榮、委員李坤城、委員鍾嘉斌等人提案"},{"start":5077.73,"end":5079.73,"text":"軍統行政院提案第三條"},{"start":5079.73,"end":5081.73,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第三條"},{"start":5081.73,"end":5088.73,"text":"本戰略所稱國防戰略無人載具採購指主管機關及其所屬機關構"},{"start":5088.73,"end":5096.73,"text":"部隊辦理第四條所訂項目之主要裝備系統與其資源系統之獲得產製共同生產"},{"start":5096.73,"end":5105.73,"text":"維修工程訓練及與其一並取得之技術移轉與工業合作"},{"start":5105.73,"end":5112.73,"text":"前項採購以美國或與其他國家所產製或授權之裝備為主"},{"start":5112.73,"end":5118.73,"text":"其每以採購均應加付技術移轉及工業合作條件"},{"start":5118.73,"end":5120.73,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第四條"},{"start":5120.73,"end":5122.73,"text":"本條律用詞定義如下"},{"start":5122.73,"end":5127.73,"text":"一無人載具產業指研發設計製造整合測試及"},{"start":5127.73,"end":5132.73,"text":"微運無人機自動駕駛車輛無人水面及水下載具"},{"start":5132.73,"end":5135.73,"text":"無人地面載具及其核心零組件"},{"start":5135.73,"end":5140.73,"text":"感測模組、非控軟體、邊緣運算平台"},{"start":5140.73,"end":5147.73,"text":"遠端操控系統相關服務平台及其他金主管機關公告之智慧載具之產業"},{"start":5147.73,"end":5154.73,"text":"二無人載具公司指無人載具產業依公司法設立之公司"},{"start":5154.73,"end":5157.73,"text":"從事下列業務之一並經主管"},{"start":5158.89,"end":5160.89,"text":"機關審定者"},{"start":5160.89,"end":5166.89,"text":"一研發製造無人機自動駕駛車輛無人水面及水下載具"},{"start":5166.89,"end":5169.89,"text":"核心零組件及創建技術平台"},{"start":5169.89,"end":5172.89,"text":"二受託開發製造生產節目"},{"start":5173.82,"end":5179.82,"text":"一目所列無人載具及其策略性無人載具產品"},{"start":5179.82,"end":5187.82,"text":"三無人機指無線電遙控自動程式控制或人工智慧自主控制方式"},{"start":5187.82,"end":5191.82,"text":"於空中飛行且不搭載駕駛員之航空機具"},{"start":5191.82,"end":5196.82,"text":"四自動駕駛車輛指搭載系統駕駛系統"},{"start":5196.82,"end":5199.82,"text":"一SAA分級達level3以上"},{"start":5199.82,"end":5206.82,"text":"於特定或全區域路況下不需人工介入即可自行自主行駛之車輛"},{"start":5206.82,"end":5212.82,"text":"無人水面及水下載具指以遠端操控或自主"},{"start":5214.05,"end":5220.05,"text":"導航方式於水面或水下航行且不需搭載駕駛員之船舶"},{"start":5221.31,"end":5227.31,"text":"六核心零組件與系統指飛行控制器感測融合模組"},{"start":5227.31,"end":5233.31,"text":"邊緣AI運算單元高精度定位模組電池與動力系統"},{"start":5233.31,"end":5237.31,"text":"低延遲通訊模組及自動避障系統等"},{"start":5237.31,"end":5244.31,"text":"七智慧載具創新技術平台指專門應用於無人載具之開發測試"},{"start":5244.31,"end":5251.31,"text":"驗證或受託製造具高度研發風行關鍵及創新性"},{"start":5254.26,"end":5258.26,"text":"前項第二款無人載具公司之審定要件"},{"start":5258.26,"end":5264.26,"text":"應被文件程序審定之撤銷或廢止其他相關事項"},{"start":5265.98,"end":5266.98,"text":"此次辦法"},{"start":5267.65,"end":5273.65,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第二條本條例所稱無人載具只具備自動"},{"start":5274.73,"end":5289.73,"text":"控航遙控或自主運作能力之無人飛行載具無人水面載具無人水下載具無人地面載具或其他經中央主管機關公告指定之載具"},{"start":5290.98,"end":5301.98,"text":"前項無人載具之範圍包含其關鍵零組件通訊模組次系統控制軟體系統者合集維修服務但不包含太空發展"},{"start":5302.66,"end":5307.66,"text":"法所定所定之發設載具及太空航距"},{"start":5309.78,"end":5310.78,"text":"此"},{"start":5311.45,"end":5316.45,"text":"行政院提案第四條本條例所定國防自主無人載具採購之項目如下"},{"start":5316.45,"end":5317.45,"text":"一"},{"start":5317.45,"end":5322.45,"text":"濱海偵測行無人機二濱海攻擊行無人機三自行"},{"start":5323.25,"end":5330.25,"text":"小型自殺無人機國民黨團提案第十六條前條預算之支用以下列項目違憲"},{"start":5330.25,"end":5331.25,"text":"一"},{"start":5331.25,"end":5340.25,"text":"軍用無人載具之採購產製維修工程及訓練二軍民共用場域"},{"start":5340.25,"end":5346.25,"text":"測試場域之設置及維運費用三產業聚落發展及中小企業"},{"start":5346.25,"end":5347.25,"text":"此"},{"start":5347.25,"end":5350.25,"text":"行政院提案第十六條本條例所定的法案"},{"start":5350.25,"end":5351.25,"text":"二"},{"start":5351.25,"end":5360.25,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具及相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5363.45,"end":5364.45,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5365.23,"end":5366.23,"text":"委員陳樹月委"},{"start":5367.11,"end":5376.11,"text":"委員林怡瑾委員吳思瑤委員李坤誠委員鍾佳斌等提案軍統行政院提案第四條委員蔡玉宇等人提案第四條"},{"start":5377.22,"end":5380.22,"text":"申請註冊第四款無人載具相關"},{"start":5381.2,"end":5382.2,"text":"二"},{"start":5382.2,"end":5387.2,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具及相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5387.2,"end":5388.2,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5388.2,"end":5389.2,"text":"二"},{"start":5389.2,"end":5394.2,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具與相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5394.2,"end":5395.2,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5395.2,"end":5396.2,"text":"二"},{"start":5396.2,"end":5399.2,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具與相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5399.2,"end":5400.2,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5400.2,"end":5401.2,"text":"二"},{"start":5401.2,"end":5404.2,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具與相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5404.2,"end":5405.2,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5405.2,"end":5406.2,"text":"二"},{"start":5406.2,"end":5409.2,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具與相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5409.2,"end":5410.2,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5410.2,"end":5411.2,"text":"二"},{"start":5411.2,"end":5412.2,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具與相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5412.2,"end":5413.2,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5413.2,"end":5414.2,"text":"二"},{"start":5414.2,"end":5415.2,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具與相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5415.2,"end":5416.2,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5416.2,"end":5417.2,"text":"二"},{"start":5417.2,"end":5418.2,"text":"國內研發生產及製造之無人載具與相關系統並兼顧技術自主供應鏈安全及國防需求"},{"start":5418.2,"end":5419.2,"text":"委員您處因"},{"start":5419.72,"end":5422.72,"text":"其他無人載具與同行政院提案"},{"start":5422.72,"end":5424.72,"text":"委員戴世保等人提案第四條"},{"start":5424.72,"end":5428.72,"text":"本條例所訂國防戰略無人載具"},{"start":5428.72,"end":5429.72,"text":"採購"},{"start":5429.72,"end":5436.72,"text":"已具備下列一款或數款作戰能力之無人載具系統及其資源裝備為範疇"},{"start":5436.72,"end":5438.72,"text":"依高空航空"},{"start":5439.18,"end":5444.18,"text":"高空長航時廣域情報監視及偵測能力"},{"start":5444.18,"end":5445.18,"text":"二"},{"start":5445.18,"end":5447.18,"text":"精準打擊目標定位或電子作戰能力"},{"start":5447.18,"end":5448.18,"text":"三"},{"start":5448.18,"end":5452.18,"text":"廣域海域或空域持續監控及反潛能力"},{"start":5452.18,"end":5453.18,"text":"四"},{"start":5453.18,"end":5457.18,"text":"有人無人協同作戰及任務自主能力"},{"start":5457.18,"end":5458.18,"text":"五"},{"start":5458.18,"end":5462.18,"text":"其他具備戰略價值之先進無人載具能力"},{"start":5462.18,"end":5467.18,"text":"前項各款所須知兼指揮管制與"},{"start":5468.36,"end":5471.36,"text":"情偵測整合系統"},{"start":5471.36,"end":5478.36,"text":"衛星資料鏈地面管制戰及感測籌載得以並納入採購範圍"},{"start":5479.5,"end":5481.5,"text":"才購置"},{"start":5481.96,"end":5485.96,"text":"具體品項數量及優先順序由主管機關"},{"start":5487.83,"end":5495.83,"text":"建軍備戰需求聯邦技術可獲得性及國內產業產能"},{"start":5495.88,"end":5497.88,"text":"機場接能量"},{"start":5500.83,"end":5511.83,"text":"行政院提案第五條本條例所需經費上限為新臺幣2100億以特別預算方式編列及預算編制不受預算法第23條不得充經常性"},{"start":5512.64,"end":5522.64,"text":"支出規定限制前項所需經費來源得以移用以前年度最寄剩餘或舉借債務方式辦理"},{"start":5522.64,"end":5536.64,"text":"其年度舉借債務之額度不受公司公共債務法第五條第七項規定之限制中央政府總預算及本條本特別預算與本條例施行期間之舉債額度合計數"},{"start":5536.64,"end":5552.64,"text":"不得超過該期間總預算及特別預算稅出總額合計數之50%本條例施行期間中央政府舉借之一年以上公共債務未償餘額預算數"},{"start":5552.64,"end":5556.64,"text":"因依本公共債務法第五條第一項規定辦理"},{"start":5556.64,"end":5558.64,"text":"國民黨提案第15條"},{"start":5558.64,"end":5580.64,"text":"為建立長期穩健之無人載具產業發展及國防建設機制特殊特殊持續推動無人載具產業發展強化國防自主能量建構安全可信任之供應鏈體系及提升國際競爭力"},{"start":5580.64,"end":5583.64,"text":"中央政府應循每年預算程序"},{"start":5584.58,"end":5590.58,"text":"每年編制新臺幣400億元連續編列6年總額為新臺幣2400億元"},{"start":5590.58,"end":5596.58,"text":"委員林楚雲等人提案委員陳樹月等人提案委員蔡玉宇等人提案委員李怡菁等人提案委員吳思瑤"},{"start":5598.18,"end":5600.18,"text":"等人提案委員"},{"start":5600.39,"end":5606.39,"text":"委員李坤城等人提案委員鍾嘉斌等人提案軍同行政院提案第五條"},{"start":5607.71,"end":5609.71,"text":"委員賴瑞榮等人提案第五條"},{"start":5609.71,"end":5615.71,"text":"拒守新臺幣為2400億元與同行政院提案"},{"start":5616.06,"end":5618.06,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第六條"},{"start":5618.06,"end":5623.06,"text":"本條例所需經費上限為新臺幣500億元以特別預算方式編列"},{"start":5623.06,"end":5628.06,"text":"其預算編制不受預算法第23條不得充經償"},{"start":5629.28,"end":5642.28,"text":"支出規定之限制前項經費應依第五條第四項規定提撥不低於10%專攻技術移轉接收產業化及維修量能建立之用"},{"start":5642.28,"end":5647.28,"text":"第四項同行政院提案第2項及第3項"},{"start":5647.92,"end":5649.92,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第五條"},{"start":5649.92,"end":5658.92,"text":"中央主管機關國防部或目的事業主管機關得依本條例辦理各項產業扶植與採購需求"},{"start":5658.92,"end":5664.92,"text":"其所需經費以特別預算方式編列及預算編制不受預算法第23條規定之限制"},{"start":5664.92,"end":5668.92,"text":"非經立法院同意不得相互留用"},{"start":5669.68,"end":5672.68,"text":"前項產業扶植與採購需求"},{"start":5672.68,"end":5675.68,"text":"之辦理採一年一期方式編列"},{"start":5675.68,"end":5678.68,"text":"期滿後續預算及期成"},{"start":5678.68,"end":5683.68,"text":"經立法院同意後分期辦理預算籌編及審議"},{"start":5684.98,"end":5689.98,"text":"第3項及第4項同行政院提案第2項及第3項"},{"start":5691.21,"end":5693.21,"text":"行政院提案第6條"},{"start":5693.21,"end":5698.21,"text":"本條例所列預算之執行審計機關應依法辦理審計"},{"start":5698.21,"end":5700.21,"text":"委員林楚英"},{"start":5700.21,"end":5701.21,"text":"委員陳樹月"},{"start":5701.21,"end":5702.21,"text":"委員蔡玉瑜"},{"start":5702.21,"end":5703.21,"text":"委員林怡瑾"},{"start":5703.21,"end":5704.21,"text":"委員吳思堯"},{"start":5704.21,"end":5705.21,"text":"委員賴瑞榮"},{"start":5706.3,"end":5707.3,"text":"委員李昆辰"},{"start":5707.3,"end":5708.3,"text":"委員鍾佳斌"},{"start":5708.3,"end":5709.3,"text":"等人提案"},{"start":5709.3,"end":5710.3,"text":"軍同行政院提案第6條"},{"start":5711.63,"end":5713.63,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第16條"},{"start":5713.63,"end":5717.63,"text":"本條例所列預算之執行應依下列規定辦理"},{"start":5717.63,"end":5721.63,"text":"1審計機關應依法辦理審計"},{"start":5721.63,"end":5724.63,"text":"2主管機關應依預算法第63條辦理"},{"start":5725.43,"end":5726.43,"text":"劉詠潔"},{"start":5727.03,"end":5730.03,"text":"非經立法院同意不得留用"},{"start":5730.03,"end":5734.03,"text":"主管機關應專案列管及考核本條例"},{"start":5734.03,"end":5736.03,"text":"所列計畫之執行"},{"start":5736.03,"end":5739.03,"text":"並將執行進度及績效美會"},{"start":5739.03,"end":5742.03,"text":"其向立法院提出專案報告"},{"start":5742.03,"end":5745.03,"text":"本機關及其上級機關應依法執行"},{"start":5745.03,"end":5747.03,"text":"並落實監督機制"},{"start":5747.03,"end":5749.03,"text":"本條例施行屆滿之日"},{"start":5749.03,"end":5751.03,"text":"次年5月底前"},{"start":5751.03,"end":5753.03,"text":"主管機關應就其"},{"start":5753.03,"end":5754.03,"text":"實施成效"},{"start":5754.03,"end":5756.03,"text":"作成總報告並送立法院"},{"start":5759.15,"end":5761.15,"text":"委員國民黨提案第4條"},{"start":5761.15,"end":5765.15,"text":"國防部應依量大駕聯"},{"start":5765.15,"end":5768.15,"text":"智慧化分布式支援則"},{"start":5768.15,"end":5772.15,"text":"訂立無人載具防衛體系之中長期"},{"start":5772.15,"end":5773.15,"text":"發展目標"},{"start":5773.15,"end":5775.15,"text":"應每2年滾動檢討一次"},{"start":5775.15,"end":5779.15,"text":"並依臺海安全情勢變化及國際先進"},{"start":5780.82,"end":5782.82,"text":"國家之發展趨勢調整"},{"start":5782.82,"end":5785.82,"text":"經濟部應會同國防部每年向立法院提出"},{"start":5785.82,"end":5788.82,"text":"無人載具提升國防戰力產業發展"},{"start":5788.82,"end":5791.82,"text":"科技創新及經濟效益階段"},{"start":5791.82,"end":5792.82,"text":"性發展報告"},{"start":5794.26,"end":5796.26,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團提案第5條"},{"start":5796.26,"end":5800.26,"text":"經濟部應會同相關機關每4年提出"},{"start":5800.26,"end":5802.26,"text":"無人產業發展綱領"},{"start":5802.26,"end":5805.26,"text":"並每2年檢討修正涉及國防運用事項"},{"start":5805.26,"end":5807.26,"text":"應會同國防部進行"},{"start":5807.26,"end":5810.26,"text":"前項綱領應載明下列事項"},{"start":5810.26,"end":5813.26,"text":"1.產業發展綱領及關鍵技術"},{"start":5813.26,"end":5815.26,"text":"期效指標"},{"start":5815.26,"end":5819.26,"text":"2.關鍵技術自主化及國產化目標"},{"start":5819.26,"end":5823.26,"text":"3.先進空中運輸及運用發展策略"},{"start":5823.26,"end":5826.26,"text":"4.可信任供應鏈推動策略"},{"start":5826.26,"end":5829.26,"text":"5.法規調適及跨部會分工事項"},{"start":5829.26,"end":5832.26,"text":"6.國內市場、國際市場及外銷目標"},{"start":5832.26,"end":5835.26,"text":"7.期仍採培育及產學合作策略"},{"start":5836.27,"end":5839.27,"text":"8.經費需求、財源規劃及預期效益"},{"start":5839.27,"end":5842.27,"text":"第一項所稱無人產業發展綱領"},{"start":5842.27,"end":5847.27,"text":"應經國家無人機產業發展戰略特別委員會"},{"start":5847.27,"end":5850.27,"text":"審議通過並經行政院核定後"},{"start":5850.27,"end":5852.27,"text":"應送立法院"},{"start":5855.61,"end":5856.61,"text":"國民黨提案第五條"},{"start":5856.61,"end":5859.61,"text":"無人載具防衛體系之規劃"},{"start":5859.61,"end":5864.61,"text":"應遵循分佈、分佈、分佈適任性原則"},{"start":5864.61,"end":5867.61,"text":"避免集中分佈或集中產生"},{"start":5867.61,"end":5869.61,"text":"1.無人載具之生產基地"},{"start":5869.61,"end":5872.61,"text":"應分佈於至少三個不同縣市"},{"start":5872.61,"end":5875.61,"text":"不得集中於單一地理區域"},{"start":5875.61,"end":5878.61,"text":"以降低遭受集中打擊之風險"},{"start":5878.61,"end":5881.61,"text":"2.無人載具之戰備儲存"},{"start":5881.61,"end":5882.61,"text":"應分散於不同據點"},{"start":5882.61,"end":5885.61,"text":"單一據點儲存量不得超過總佔"},{"start":5887.13,"end":5889.13,"text":"儲存量至25%"},{"start":5889.13,"end":5891.13,"text":"3.無人載具之操作"},{"start":5891.84,"end":5893.84,"text":"及指揮系統"},{"start":5893.84,"end":5896.84,"text":"應建立分散式備員架構"},{"start":5896.84,"end":5899.84,"text":"確保單點實能不致癱瘓整體"},{"start":5900.73,"end":5901.73,"text":"作戰能力"},{"start":5902.23,"end":5904.23,"text":"國民黨提案第六條"},{"start":5904.23,"end":5906.23,"text":"國防部應會同地方政府"},{"start":5906.23,"end":5908.23,"text":"於本條例施行後一年內"},{"start":5908.23,"end":5909.23,"text":"於本條例第五條"},{"start":5909.23,"end":5912.23,"text":"鎖定不同地理區域規劃至少三處"},{"start":5912.23,"end":5914.23,"text":"均民共用測試場域"},{"start":5914.23,"end":5917.23,"text":"供軍方民間業者共同使用"},{"start":5917.23,"end":5919.23,"text":"進行無人載具之非控"},{"start":5920.12,"end":5921.12,"text":"航空"},{"start":5921.12,"end":5923.12,"text":"抗干擾及作戰模擬測試"},{"start":5923.12,"end":5925.12,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團提案第七條"},{"start":5925.12,"end":5928.12,"text":"經濟部應會同相關機關及地方主管機關"},{"start":5928.12,"end":5930.12,"text":"化設無人機測試場域"},{"start":5931.44,"end":5933.44,"text":"測試走廊及示範區"},{"start":5933.44,"end":5939.44,"text":"國防部應盤點適當軍事演習或軍事訓練場域"},{"start":5939.44,"end":5943.44,"text":"作為軍用無人機系統專門測試場域"},{"start":5943.95,"end":5947.95,"text":"於前二項場域進行創新實驗者"},{"start":5947.95,"end":5951.95,"text":"中央主管機關得排除或調整部分法規限制"},{"start":5951.95,"end":5955.95,"text":"並建立飛行操作安全及性能資料回饋機制"},{"start":5955.95,"end":5959.95,"text":"作為法規修正及產業推動之依據"},{"start":5959.95,"end":5961.95,"text":"委員賴思堡等人提案第十四條"},{"start":5961.95,"end":5964.95,"text":"為加速無人載具產品商業化"},{"start":5965.71,"end":5968.71,"text":"主管機關及各中央目的事業主管機關"},{"start":5968.71,"end":5972.71,"text":"應依據無人載具科技創新實驗條例"},{"start":5972.71,"end":5976.71,"text":"輔導無人載具公司於指定尖離沙盒範圍內"},{"start":5976.71,"end":5978.71,"text":"進行實驗性飛行"},{"start":5980.24,"end":5985.24,"text":"行駛或航行並建立配套之測驗場域"},{"start":5985.24,"end":5990.24,"text":"提供電池干擾測試環境適應測試及"},{"start":5990.24,"end":5995.24,"text":"飛安驗證等服務主管機關及中央目的"},{"start":5995.24,"end":5997.24,"text":"事業主管機關對於無人"},{"start":5998.05,"end":6003.05,"text":"載具產品上市前所需通過之行事認證"},{"start":6003.05,"end":6007.05,"text":"軟體驗證資安檢測飛航"},{"start":6007.05,"end":6012.05,"text":"四航審查等應訂定公開透明之流程及"},{"start":6012.05,"end":6018.05,"text":"藝人化審查制度並應建立專業審查能量及"},{"start":6018.05,"end":6022.05,"text":"精進相關審查規範為強化無人載具技術"},{"start":6022.05,"end":6027.05,"text":"引進及輿轉由政府捐助成立之技術輔導"},{"start":6027.05,"end":6030.05,"text":"單位應配合提供技術輔導"},{"start":6030.55,"end":6032.55,"text":"委員宗家兵的人提案第12條委員"},{"start":6032.55,"end":6036.55,"text":"應會同相關目的事業主管機關與本條例"},{"start":6036.55,"end":6041.55,"text":"實施期限內積極化設或指定無人載具專屬"},{"start":6041.55,"end":6046.55,"text":"之入獄水域及空域實證測試場域並建置"},{"start":6046.55,"end":6051.55,"text":"通訊導航及其他相關之基礎設施前相"},{"start":6051.55,"end":6057.55,"text":"測試場域得跨越2以上直轄縣市行政區域"},{"start":6057.55,"end":6062.55,"text":"或其臨接海域並得以連接2以上場域之"},{"start":6062.55,"end":6068.55,"text":"測試走廊形態化設之委員會化設前兩"},{"start":6068.55,"end":6073.55,"text":"項測試場域或測試走廊時應會商該管"},{"start":6073.55,"end":6077.55,"text":"直轄縣市政府及相關目的事業主管機關"},{"start":6077.55,"end":6082.55,"text":"該管直轄縣市政府相關"},{"start":6083.23,"end":6087.23,"text":"機關應配合辦理第一項測試場域之設置"},{"start":6087.23,"end":6092.23,"text":"基準與管理及第二項創新實驗之申請"},{"start":6092.23,"end":6096.23,"text":"要件審查程序安全維護及風險控管計畫"},{"start":6096.23,"end":6101.23,"text":"賠償損失局保險機制資訊安全規範實驗"},{"start":6101.23,"end":6105.23,"text":"期間延展變更費止及其他應遵循事項"},{"start":6105.23,"end":6109.23,"text":"之辦法由委員會會同相關目的事業主管機關"},{"start":6109.23,"end":6110.23,"text":"規定"},{"start":6110.79,"end":6112.79,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案"},{"start":6113.17,"end":6118.17,"text":"第十一條除增加第二項於前項測試場域內進行"},{"start":6118.17,"end":6122.17,"text":"無人載具之創新實驗經中央目"},{"start":6122.17,"end":6126.17,"text":"經中央主管機關會商相關目的事業主管機關"},{"start":6126.17,"end":6129.17,"text":"審查核准者與核准之期限"},{"start":6129.17,"end":6135.17,"text":"實驗期限及範圍內不得不受下列法律及"},{"start":6135.17,"end":6140.17,"text":"其授權訂定之法規命令一部或全部之限制"},{"start":6140.17,"end":6145.17,"text":"依民用航空法有關航空汽車制製造登記檢驗人員"},{"start":6146.46,"end":6148.46,"text":"測驗及飛航管制製規定"},{"start":6148.46,"end":6153.46,"text":"二傳播法及船員法有關傳播檢查"},{"start":6153.46,"end":6157.46,"text":"帳糧設備航行限制及人員配置制規定"},{"start":6157.46,"end":6163.46,"text":"三道路交通管理處罰條例及公路法有關"},{"start":6164.08,"end":6168.08,"text":"車輛檢驗、牌照登記、駕駛執照及行駛路線之規定"},{"start":6168.08,"end":6178.08,"text":"四、電信管理法有關無線電頻率使用電信網路設置及設平器材"},{"start":6179.22,"end":6185.22,"text":"管制規定五、其他經中央主管機關會商相關目的事業主管機關指定"},{"start":6185.22,"end":6189.22,"text":"並公告排除適用之法規"},{"start":6189.22,"end":6193.22,"text":"與同委員宗嘉斌等人提案第十二條"},{"start":6194.17,"end":6196.17,"text":"國民黨團體案第七條"},{"start":6196.17,"end":6201.17,"text":"軍用無人載具資採購應訂定國產化比例目標"},{"start":6201.17,"end":6204.17,"text":"並依下列期程逐步提升"},{"start":6204.17,"end":6208.17,"text":"一、本條例施行後兩年內軍用商規無人機資"},{"start":6208.17,"end":6211.17,"text":"國產化比例達50%以上"},{"start":6211.17,"end":6216.17,"text":"二、本條例施行後四年內軍用商規無人機資"},{"start":6216.17,"end":6219.17,"text":"國產化比例達80%以上"},{"start":6219.17,"end":6225.17,"text":"無人停機地面無人載具資國產化比例達70%以上"},{"start":6225.17,"end":6230.17,"text":"前項國產化比例之計算應以零組件產值佔比"},{"start":6232.12,"end":6236.12,"text":"產值佔整機產值之比例為基準"},{"start":6236.12,"end":6239.12,"text":"由經濟部會同國防部訂"},{"start":6239.53,"end":6240.53,"text":"定計算辦法"},{"start":6241.33,"end":6243.33,"text":"國民黨提案第八條"},{"start":6243.33,"end":6248.33,"text":"對投入無人載具關鍵化零組件國產化之優良業者"},{"start":6248.33,"end":6250.33,"text":"經濟部得卓與獎勵"},{"start":6250.33,"end":6252.33,"text":"前項獎勵得以下列方式為之"},{"start":6252.33,"end":6253.33,"text":"一、捐補助"},{"start":6253.33,"end":6255.33,"text":"二、資金、技術、投資或授權"},{"start":6255.33,"end":6256.33,"text":"三、優先採購"},{"start":6256.33,"end":6259.33,"text":"四、提供融資及優惠利率"},{"start":6259.33,"end":6265.33,"text":"前兩項獎勵時機對象條件基準及其他相關事項之辦法"},{"start":6265.33,"end":6269.33,"text":"由主管機關會商相關機關訂製"},{"start":6278.48,"end":6280.48,"text":"委員宗嘉斌等人提案第十四條"},{"start":6280.48,"end":6285.48,"text":"為促進我國無人載具產業發展及提升國際競爭力"},{"start":6285.48,"end":6288.48,"text":"委員會得辦理或補助下列事項"},{"start":6288.48,"end":6295.48,"text":"依無人載具及其關鍵零組件次系統之前瞻研發製造與"},{"start":6295.65,"end":6298.65,"text":"系統整合二產業所"},{"start":6299.7,"end":6303.7,"text":"產業所專業人才之培訓延攬及產學合作"},{"start":6303.7,"end":6305.7,"text":"三、資金籌措信用保證"},{"start":6306.51,"end":6308.51,"text":"國內外市場脫銷之協助"},{"start":6308.51,"end":6311.51,"text":"四、自主檢驗測試國際"},{"start":6312.97,"end":6315.97,"text":"認證量能及共同測試平台之建置"},{"start":6315.97,"end":6318.97,"text":"五、供應鏈風險評估"},{"start":6318.97,"end":6321.97,"text":"韌性整合標準制定及國際合作"},{"start":6321.97,"end":6327.97,"text":"六、會商相關政府基金或目的事業主管機關進行投資"},{"start":6327.97,"end":6332.97,"text":"前項辦理或補助之對象申請資格審查基準"},{"start":6332.97,"end":6339.97,"text":"補助額度績效評估查核機制及其他因遵循事項之辦法"},{"start":6339.97,"end":6341.97,"text":"由委員會訂製"},{"start":6341.97,"end":6343.97,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第十三條"},{"start":6343.97,"end":6346.97,"text":"同委員鍾嘉斌等人提案第十四條"},{"start":6346.97,"end":6348.97,"text":"國民黨提案第九條"},{"start":6348.97,"end":6356.97,"text":"政府為特別輔助與中小企業及創新企業"},{"start":6356.97,"end":6361.97,"text":"得由國家發展基金會共同民間資金共同投資"},{"start":6361.97,"end":6363.97,"text":"國民黨提案第十條"},{"start":6363.97,"end":6369.97,"text":"主管機關每年對無人載具相關預算之效益進行評估"},{"start":6369.97,"end":6371.97,"text":"評估內容應包括"},{"start":6371.97,"end":6376.97,"text":"一、無人載具採購預算之本土產業產值效果"},{"start":6376.97,"end":6381.97,"text":"二、創造之科技就業機會數量及薪資水準"},{"start":6381.97,"end":6387.97,"text":"三、衍生之名用商業化應用及外銷產值"},{"start":6387.97,"end":6394.97,"text":"評估報告應送立法院備查並得應邀列席報告"},{"start":6394.97,"end":6396.97,"text":"國民黨提案第十一條"},{"start":6399.08,"end":6403.08,"text":"數位發展部應會同國防部於本條例施行後"},{"start":6403.08,"end":6407.08,"text":"一年內制定無人載具治安標準"},{"start":6407.08,"end":6412.08,"text":"明定下列關鍵零組件不得使用原製"},{"start":6412.08,"end":6416.08,"text":"經行政院公告之高風險地區供應商之軟硬體"},{"start":6416.08,"end":6423.08,"text":"一、飛行控制系統含其韌體與動力控制中樞"},{"start":6423.08,"end":6426.08,"text":"二、通訊模組及資料鏈系統"},{"start":6426.08,"end":6431.08,"text":"三、影像感測器及其影像晶片處理"},{"start":6432.04,"end":6436.04,"text":"四、導航定位系統晶片含導控軟體"},{"start":6436.04,"end":6442.04,"text":"五、電池管理系統前向高風險地區供應商之認定"},{"start":6442.04,"end":6444.04,"text":"由行政院一、國家"},{"start":6443.92,"end":6446.92,"text":"安全考量公告並定期檢討更新"},{"start":6446.92,"end":6449.92,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第十五條"},{"start":6449.92,"end":6454.92,"text":"無人載具公司所生產或進口之無人載具產品"},{"start":6454.92,"end":6458.92,"text":"其資訊安全防護韌體更新機制及資訊"},{"start":6460.14,"end":6462.14,"text":"通訊加密標準"},{"start":6462.14,"end":6465.14,"text":"應符合主管機關公告之安全基準"},{"start":6465.14,"end":6467.14,"text":"並取得相應認證後"},{"start":6467.14,"end":6471.14,"text":"使得於國內商業銷售或提供服務"},{"start":6471.14,"end":6475.14,"text":"使用具有資安疑慮之境外無人載具及其核心零組件"},{"start":6475.14,"end":6478.14,"text":"於政府機關或關鍵基礎設施者"},{"start":6478.14,"end":6480.14,"text":"意義通訊"},{"start":6480.1,"end":6486.1,"text":"安全管理法相關規定辦理主管機關得匯同國防部國家安全局公告"},{"start":6486.1,"end":6487.1,"text":"禁止或使用"},{"start":6487.93,"end":6490.93,"text":"或禁止使用之無人載具相關清單"},{"start":6490.93,"end":6494.93,"text":"前二項相關安全基準認證程序及"},{"start":6494.93,"end":6497.93,"text":"禁止或限制使用之品項認定標準"},{"start":6497.93,"end":6499.93,"text":"由主管機關匯同中央"},{"start":6501.23,"end":6503.23,"text":"目的事業主管機關規定"},{"start":6504.06,"end":6507.06,"text":"國民黨提案第十二條無人載具業者"},{"start":6507.06,"end":6509.06,"text":"欲申請國產化獎勵措施者"},{"start":6509.06,"end":6513.06,"text":"應通過數位發展部匯同國防部建立之"},{"start":6513.06,"end":6516.06,"text":"供應鏈安全認證認證內容"},{"start":6516.06,"end":6521.06,"text":"應包括一關鍵零組件來源之可追溯性聲明之機何"},{"start":6521.06,"end":6525.06,"text":"二軟體原始碼及韌體資安檢測"},{"start":6525.06,"end":6529.06,"text":"確保無二軟硬體後門或"},{"start":6529.06,"end":6534.06,"text":"未經授權資資料回傳機制"},{"start":6534.06,"end":6539.06,"text":"三供應鏈中斷風險評估及備援供應"},{"start":6539.06,"end":6543.06,"text":"雙規劃通過前項認證職業者數位發展部"},{"start":6543.06,"end":6546.06,"text":"應發給有效期兩年之認證證書"},{"start":6546.06,"end":6549.06,"text":"並公告於官方網站"},{"start":6549.06,"end":6553.06,"text":"作為國際合作夥伴信任評估之參考依據"},{"start":6553.06,"end":6555.06,"text":"國民黨提案第十三條"},{"start":6555.06,"end":6559.06,"text":"主管機關應與國家安全與國際合作"},{"start":6559.06,"end":6563.06,"text":"救無人載具技術研發零組件供應及聯合"},{"start":6563.06,"end":6567.06,"text":"測試驗證進行合作並依下列原則推動"},{"start":6567.06,"end":6572.06,"text":"一優先於以建立資安標準之國際夥伴"},{"start":6572.06,"end":6575.06,"text":"進行技術交流及聯合研發"},{"start":6575.06,"end":6580.06,"text":"二推動臺灣業者通過國際夥伴之供應鏈"},{"start":6580.06,"end":6582.06,"text":"安全認證與標準"},{"start":6582.06,"end":6583.06,"text":"與標準"},{"start":6583.06,"end":6586.06,"text":"制定創造外銷商機"},{"start":6586.82,"end":6592.82,"text":"三提升臺灣在全球無人載具產業供應鏈之關鍵地位"},{"start":6592.82,"end":6594.82,"text":"國民黨提案第十四條"},{"start":6594.82,"end":6599.82,"text":"業者與供應鏈安全認證程序中提供虛偽資料"},{"start":6599.82,"end":6604.82,"text":"或經查或使用未經認證之高風險地區零組件者"},{"start":6604.82,"end":6607.82,"text":"數位發展部應撤銷其認證資格"},{"start":6607.82,"end":6612.82,"text":"並通知主管機關終止其參與採購及國際化獎勵"},{"start":6612.82,"end":6615.82,"text":"措施之資格期限不少於三年"},{"start":6615.82,"end":6617.82,"text":"國民黨提案第十四條"},{"start":6617.82,"end":6621.82,"text":"經濟部應會同國防部於每年三月三十一日前"},{"start":6621.82,"end":6623.82,"text":"向行政院及立法院提出"},{"start":6623.82,"end":6627.82,"text":"前一年度無人載具國防科技發展執行報告"},{"start":6627.82,"end":6635.82,"text":"內容應包括無人載具各類別量產目標達成情形"},{"start":6635.82,"end":6637.82,"text":"二國產化比例之"},{"start":6641.52,"end":6644.52,"text":"達成情形三供應鏈安全認證之"},{"start":6644.52,"end":6647.52,"text":"核發及撤銷情形四採購執行"},{"start":6647.52,"end":6649.52,"text":"進行重大缺失及改善措施"},{"start":6649.52,"end":6651.52,"text":"國民黨提案第十八條"},{"start":6653,"end":6657,"text":"採具採購案金額超過新臺幣一億元者主辦機關"},{"start":6657,"end":6661,"text":"應於絕標後三十日內向立法院提出書面報告"},{"start":6661,"end":6663,"text":"國民黨提案第十九條"},{"start":6663,"end":6668,"text":"主管機關應每三年委託獨立學術機構或研究單位"},{"start":6668,"end":6675,"text":"對臺灣無人載具防衛體系之整體戰略產業發展成效"},{"start":6675,"end":6678,"text":"及國際競爭力評估"},{"start":6678,"end":6682,"text":"評估報告於不涉及國防機密之範圍內"},{"start":6682,"end":6684,"text":"應公開發布"},{"start":6684,"end":6686,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第四條"},{"start":6686,"end":6690,"text":"行政院應設置國家無人機產業發展"},{"start":6690.97,"end":6692.97,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十九條"},{"start":6692.97,"end":6696.97,"text":"行政院應設置國家無人機產業發展成效及"},{"start":6696.97,"end":6698.97,"text":"國際競爭力評估報告"},{"start":6698.97,"end":6700.97,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十九條"},{"start":6700.97,"end":6704.97,"text":"行政院應設置國家無人機產業發展成效及"},{"start":6704.97,"end":6706.97,"text":"國際競爭力評估報告"},{"start":6706.97,"end":6708.97,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十九條"},{"start":6708.97,"end":6712.97,"text":"行政院應設置國家無人機產業發展成效及"},{"start":6712.97,"end":6714.97,"text":"國際競爭力評估報告"},{"start":6714.97,"end":6716.97,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十九條"},{"start":6705.21,"end":6709.21,"text":"審議無人機產業發展剛領域重大政策事項"},{"start":6709.21,"end":6713.21,"text":"預有重大事件得召開臨時會議"},{"start":6713.21,"end":6715.21,"text":"委員會議之會議記錄"},{"start":6715.21,"end":6719.21,"text":"應以刊載行政院網站之方式主動公開"},{"start":6719.21,"end":6723.21,"text":"內容應包括會議會議次別會議時間開會地點"},{"start":6723.21,"end":6727.21,"text":"主席出席委員按由議程"},{"start":6727.21,"end":6729.21,"text":"決議內容"},{"start":6728.79,"end":6730.79,"text":"委員會設"},{"start":6731.11,"end":6735.11,"text":"委員會自委員13人至17人其中一人為行政"},{"start":6735.11,"end":6739.11,"text":"為主任委員由行政院副院長兼任"},{"start":6739.11,"end":6743.11,"text":"其餘委員由經濟部國防部交通部國家通訊"},{"start":6743.11,"end":6745.11,"text":"傳播委員會公共工程委員"},{"start":6745.8,"end":6747.8,"text":"委員會等相關機關首長兼任"},{"start":6749.12,"end":6753.12,"text":"及由中央主管機關就立法院各黨團"},{"start":6753.12,"end":6758.12,"text":"推薦之學者專家遴選之前向零聘之委員人數"},{"start":6758.12,"end":6762.12,"text":"不得少於委員總額人總額二分之一"},{"start":6762.12,"end":6765.12,"text":"聘期為兩年期滿得續聘之"},{"start":6766.64,"end":6770.64,"text":"聘期應聘期內因故改聘者"},{"start":6770.64,"end":6775.64,"text":"其聘其志願聘委員聘其屆滿之日為止"},{"start":6775.64,"end":6778.64,"text":"委員會幕僚作業由經濟部辦理"},{"start":6778.64,"end":6782.64,"text":"其組成任務及運作方式由行政院定制"},{"start":6782.64,"end":6785.64,"text":"委員宗嘉斌等人提案第三條行政院"},{"start":6785.64,"end":6788.64,"text":"應設無人載具自主發展委員會"},{"start":6788.64,"end":6792.64,"text":"簡稱委員會統籌協調無人載具產業"},{"start":6792.64,"end":6795.64,"text":"發展採購基本條例之相關政策"},{"start":6795.64,"end":6801.64,"text":"計畫與跨機關事項並就各機關推動情形進行管考"},{"start":6801.64,"end":6807.64,"text":"委員會之組成任務運作方式及利益回避保密義務"},{"start":6807.64,"end":6810.64,"text":"國家安全查核機制"},{"start":6810.64,"end":6812.64,"text":"另由行政院"},{"start":6812.64,"end":6814.64,"text":"由行政院"},{"start":6816.35,"end":6819.35,"text":"王定宇委員提案第四條"},{"start":6819.35,"end":6823.35,"text":"甄定第二項委員會制委員11人"},{"start":6823.35,"end":6824.35,"text":"其中議人為主任委員"},{"start":6824.35,"end":6826.35,"text":"由行政院副院長兼任之"},{"start":6826.35,"end":6829.35,"text":"5名委員由經濟部國防部交通部"},{"start":6829.35,"end":6832.35,"text":"國家通訊川普委員會及公共工程委員會之"},{"start":6832.35,"end":6834.35,"text":"機關首長兼任"},{"start":6835.35,"end":6836.35,"text":"第三"},{"start":6837.09,"end":6840.09,"text":"甄定第三項前項另外6名委員"},{"start":6840.09,"end":6843.09,"text":"由行政院院長就無人載具國防"},{"start":6843.09,"end":6848.09,"text":"資訊科技等領域之傑出實務經驗學術成就"},{"start":6848.09,"end":6852.09,"text":"知學者專家零聘之委員聘期兩年"},{"start":6853.14,"end":6856.14,"text":"任期期滿得續聘資"},{"start":6856.97,"end":6859.97,"text":"魚頭委員宗教兵等提案第三條"},{"start":6860.95,"end":6862.95,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團體案第六條"},{"start":6862.95,"end":6865.95,"text":"經濟部應會同相關機關"},{"start":6865.95,"end":6868.95,"text":"逐步推動無人機安全"},{"start":6868.95,"end":6871.95,"text":"融入我國飛航安全管理體系"},{"start":6871.95,"end":6873.95,"text":"建立一超市"},{"start":6874.89,"end":6877.89,"text":"超市具飛行管理制度"},{"start":6877.89,"end":6880.89,"text":"夜間飛行群飛及自主"},{"start":6880.89,"end":6883.89,"text":"飛行管理制度三遠端識別制度"},{"start":6883.89,"end":6886.89,"text":"事先進空中交通管理制度"},{"start":6886.89,"end":6888.89,"text":"5電動垂直起降管理制度"},{"start":6888.89,"end":6891.89,"text":"6其他無人機相關飛行運作制度"},{"start":6892.98,"end":6894.98,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第八條"},{"start":6894.98,"end":6899.98,"text":"中央主管機關應優先整合我國製造的無人機系統"},{"start":6899.98,"end":6904.98,"text":"並參著國際成熟認證標準"},{"start":6904.98,"end":6907.98,"text":"依無人機用途及風險等"},{"start":6908.84,"end":6912.84,"text":"其建立可信任供應鏈分級認證制度"},{"start":6912.84,"end":6915.84,"text":"前項分級認證制度軍用無人機系統"},{"start":6915.84,"end":6918.84,"text":"軍品及關鍵零組件之認證"},{"start":6918.84,"end":6924.84,"text":"由國防部辦理商業公共服務及其他非軍用無人機系統之認證"},{"start":6924.84,"end":6926.84,"text":"由經濟部辦理其認證制度"},{"start":6926.84,"end":6930.84,"text":"因依無人機用途及風險等其建立"},{"start":6930.84,"end":6935.84,"text":"至少包括符合資通安全可信任公共鏈"},{"start":6936.58,"end":6941.58,"text":"可信任供應鏈及國家安全要求之軍品及關鍵零組件認證"},{"start":6941.58,"end":6946.58,"text":"以及適用於非軍用用途之簡化認證機制"},{"start":6946.58,"end":6949.58,"text":"前兩項認證標準適用範圍"},{"start":6949.58,"end":6951.58,"text":"驗證程序及正面表列清單"},{"start":6951.58,"end":6954.58,"text":"由中央主管機關會商"},{"start":6955.82,"end":6959.82,"text":"相關機關擬定並公開於網際網路"},{"start":6960.14,"end":6962.14,"text":"委員宗嘉斌等人提案第十條"},{"start":6962.14,"end":6965.14,"text":"安委員會因會同相關機關"},{"start":6965.14,"end":6967.14,"text":"參酌國際認證標準"},{"start":6967.14,"end":6971.14,"text":"依無人載具之軟硬體設備用途"},{"start":6971.48,"end":6973.48,"text":"與國"},{"start":6972.8,"end":6976.8,"text":"安風險等其建立公認認認證"},{"start":6977.98,"end":6981.98,"text":"認證制度前向供應鏈評鑑認證制度"},{"start":6981.98,"end":6983.98,"text":"以國防需求為目的"},{"start":6983.98,"end":6987.98,"text":"從事研發產製維修與軍事用品質供應鏈認證"},{"start":6987.98,"end":6991.98,"text":"由國防部辦理非署前列目的者"},{"start":6991.98,"end":6995.98,"text":"由經濟部辦理前二項認證標準分級標準"},{"start":6997.32,"end":7001.32,"text":"驗證程序評鑑業務及正面表列清單"},{"start":7001.32,"end":7005.32,"text":"由前向辦理機關會同相關機關擬定"},{"start":7005.32,"end":7008.32,"text":"為促進產業與國際標準接軌"},{"start":7008.32,"end":7013.32,"text":"得以外國政府或國際認證機構建立相互認證機制"},{"start":7014.56,"end":7017.56,"text":"前向評鑑及認證業務得委託"},{"start":7017.56,"end":7021.56,"text":"經認可之專業機關購法人或團體為之"},{"start":7023.76,"end":7025.76,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第九條"},{"start":7025.76,"end":7028.76,"text":"同委員鍾嘉斌等人提案第十條"},{"start":7028.76,"end":7030.76,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第九條"},{"start":7031.59,"end":7037.59,"text":"經濟部應會同相關機關規劃無人機所需之評普資源"},{"start":7037.59,"end":7044.59,"text":"資料鏈通訊遠端識別及反制測試所需電波資源"},{"start":7044.59,"end":7050.59,"text":"必要時得建立試驗品評率及專用評率核配機制"},{"start":7050.59,"end":7052.59,"text":"國防部應會同相關機關"},{"start":7052.59,"end":7058.59,"text":"依作戰需求建構軍用無人機所需之衛星通訊資料鏈"},{"start":7058.59,"end":7064.59,"text":"專用網路電池評普及其他關鍵通訊基礎設施"},{"start":7064.59,"end":7067.59,"text":"以提升無人機制製組安全"},{"start":7067.59,"end":7070.59,"text":"抗干擾及持續作戰能力"},{"start":7070.59,"end":7072.59,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團提案第十條"},{"start":7072.59,"end":7079.59,"text":"經濟部應以下列方式支持我國製造無人機及相關系統"},{"start":7080.7,"end":7082.7,"text":"臺灣民眾黨議員"},{"start":7082.74,"end":7084.74,"text":"國際市場預測與開拓二"},{"start":7084.74,"end":7088.74,"text":"收集國際應用資料公布會參考三"},{"start":7088.74,"end":7093.74,"text":"協助產業聯盟爭取國際市場商機四"},{"start":7093.74,"end":7100.74,"text":"依產業創新條例及相關法令提供必要之租稅融資及投資協助"},{"start":7100.74,"end":7104.74,"text":"五盤點公共部門共通非軍用採購需求"},{"start":7104.74,"end":7110.74,"text":"前項第五款公部門與盤點非軍用採購需求時"},{"start":7110.74,"end":7116.74,"text":"應載明採購之產品系統與其相關資源系統產品之具體名稱數量"},{"start":7116.74,"end":7122.74,"text":"預算金額全受其維持成本及預計執行年度"},{"start":7122.74,"end":7125.74,"text":"經濟部應匯統外交部"},{"start":7125.74,"end":7129.74,"text":"經濟部國貿國際貿易主管機關"},{"start":7129.74,"end":7134.74,"text":"標準檢驗主管機關及相關機關協助無人產業"},{"start":7135.47,"end":7140.47,"text":"掌控掌握國際標準出口管制最終用途產品認證"},{"start":7140.47,"end":7143.47,"text":"資安認證及市場準錄範圍"},{"start":7143.47,"end":7149.47,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十一條無人機及其共通用品下"},{"start":7149.47,"end":7154.47,"text":"屬規格共通需求重複且適合集中採購者"},{"start":7154.47,"end":7159.47,"text":"應由主管採購機關或其指定之機關"},{"start":7159.47,"end":7163.47,"text":"依政府採購法及共同供應契約相關規定"},{"start":7163.47,"end":7167.47,"text":"以共同供應契約或其他集中採購方式辦理"},{"start":7167.47,"end":7170.47,"text":"其共同規格安全標準"},{"start":7170.47,"end":7175.47,"text":"資安要求可信任供應鏈檢驗項目及維修服務項目"},{"start":7175.47,"end":7178.47,"text":"應匯統經濟部及相關機關"},{"start":7181.51,"end":7187.51,"text":"臺灣民眾黨提案第十二條國防部應優先採購整合"},{"start":7187.51,"end":7191.51,"text":"和訓練使用我國製造低成本高性能無人機"},{"start":7191.51,"end":7193.51,"text":"國防部應定期檢討做"},{"start":7194.77,"end":7200.77,"text":"國戰需求及科技發展需求優先推動自主飛行群飛協同"},{"start":7200.77,"end":7202.77,"text":"抗干擾導航"},{"start":7204.53,"end":7208.53,"text":"模組化設計及快速量產能之建置"},{"start":7208.53,"end":7216.53,"text":"國防部應每月更新可信任供應鏈及關鍵零組件認證清單"},{"start":7216.53,"end":7222.53,"text":"國防部於驗收後對廠商提供標的任由與契約規定不符"},{"start":7222.53,"end":7224.53,"text":"以律師得進行抽驗"},{"start":7224.53,"end":7230.53,"text":"廠商應就該瑕疵保固及瑕疵擔保責任"},{"start":7230.53,"end":7232.53,"text":"委員賴世寶等人提案第十六條"},{"start":7232.53,"end":7244.53,"text":"主管機關應會同國防部推動無人載具技術軍民共用化輔導具備軍事潛力之無人載具公司取得國防"},{"start":7245.23,"end":7249.23,"text":"採購資格並得就其研發之軍民雙用技術"},{"start":7250.29,"end":7253.29,"text":"及與額外研發補助或加速審定"},{"start":7253.29,"end":7262.29,"text":"國防部得依國防採購法相關規定對國內自製且具關鍵戰術能力之無人載具產品"},{"start":7262.29,"end":7266.29,"text":"及與優先採購及長期供應合約"},{"start":7266.29,"end":7270.29,"text":"以形成穩定國內需求帶動產業量"},{"start":7271.1,"end":7274.1,"text":"委員宗嘉賓等人提案第八條"},{"start":7274.1,"end":7279.1,"text":"各級政府機關辦理無人載具及其系統之採購"},{"start":7279.1,"end":7286.1,"text":"屬基於國家安全或國防目的而需排除政府採購協定適用者"},{"start":7286.1,"end":7288.1,"text":"得採購限制性招標"},{"start":7288.1,"end":7293.1,"text":"優先向國內廠商採購不受政府採購法第十九條規定之限制"},{"start":7293.1,"end":7298.1,"text":"前項以外之採購各級政府機關於不抵觸我國"},{"start":7299.62,"end":7305.62,"text":"替截資條約或協定範圍內的優先向國內廠商採購"},{"start":7305.62,"end":7309.62,"text":"各級政府機關依前兩項辦理採購時"},{"start":7309.62,"end":7312.62,"text":"得示國內產業技術發展程度"},{"start":7312.62,"end":7317.62,"text":"於招標文件中訂定合理之國產化比例要求"},{"start":7317.62,"end":7321.62,"text":"其訂定原則由委員會會同主管機關定制"},{"start":7321.62,"end":7324.62,"text":"委員王定宇等人提案第七條"},{"start":7324.62,"end":7327.62,"text":"同委員宗嘉賓等人提案第八條"},{"start":7328.35,"end":7331.35,"text":"委員賴世保等人提案第十四第十七條"},{"start":7331.35,"end":7336.35,"text":"各級政府機關公立學校及公營事業採購無人載具產品或服務"},{"start":7336.35,"end":7339.35,"text":"應優先採購符合本條例規定"},{"start":7339.35,"end":7343.35,"text":"由國內無人載具公司製造且國產零組件"},{"start":7344.5,"end":7346.5,"text":"使用比例達一定標準者"},{"start":7346.5,"end":7349.5,"text":"其相關規範由主管機關公告"},{"start":7349.5,"end":7351.5,"text":"指主管機關應鼓勵無人載具公司"},{"start":7351.5,"end":7354.5,"text":"參與國際採購合作及外銷推廣"},{"start":7355.69,"end":7361.69,"text":"並得委託貿易推廣機構提供市場進入輔導及輔助"},{"start":7361.69,"end":7364.69,"text":"國民民眾黨提案第十三條"},{"start":7364.69,"end":7369.69,"text":"經濟部應建立無人機產業資料庫"},{"start":7369.69,"end":7374.69,"text":"定期收集會診及公布下列資訊"},{"start":7374.69,"end":7375.69,"text":"一產業鏈"},{"start":7376.89,"end":7381.89,"text":"產業鏈業者產品類型及主要應用領域"},{"start":7381.89,"end":7384.89,"text":"二關鍵零組件系統整合檢測"},{"start":7386.25,"end":7389.25,"text":"驗證及維修服務量能"},{"start":7389.25,"end":7396.25,"text":"三關鍵技術自主發展技術成熟度量產備能度及驗證能力"},{"start":7396.25,"end":7400.25,"text":"四資安驗證可信任供應鏈驗證"},{"start":7400.25,"end":7404.25,"text":"國際認證及標準接軌情形"},{"start":7404.25,"end":7406.25,"text":"五測試場域測試走廊"},{"start":7406.25,"end":7410.25,"text":"四非安建及相關安全資料統計"},{"start":7410.25,"end":7415.25,"text":"六公務用途無人機只使用類型及安全管理情形"},{"start":7415.25,"end":7417.25,"text":"七無人機共同規格"},{"start":7417.25,"end":7422.25,"text":"共同供應契約採購監督及維修服務情形"},{"start":7422.25,"end":7426.25,"text":"八人才供需訓練及證照情形"},{"start":7426.25,"end":7431.25,"text":"九出口市場國際合作及互通性標準情形"},{"start":7431.25,"end":7435.25,"text":"前項資料涉及國家機密營運"},{"start":7437.13,"end":7442.13,"text":"營業秘密個人資料資通安全或執法安全者"},{"start":7442.13,"end":7446.13,"text":"應依相關法律保密或去識別化後公布"},{"start":7446.13,"end":7449.13,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團體案第十四條"},{"start":7449.13,"end":7453.13,"text":"以詐區虛偽不實資料或其他不正方法"},{"start":7453.13,"end":7460.13,"text":"深得政府就無人產業所訂之補助獎勵投資融資或信用保證者"},{"start":7460.13,"end":7464.13,"text":"中央主管機關應撤銷或廢止其受領資格"},{"start":7464.13,"end":7466.13,"text":"並追回"},{"start":7466.32,"end":7468.32,"text":"以撥付資全部或一部分款項"},{"start":7468.32,"end":7472.32,"text":"中央主管機關因前項情形受有損害者"},{"start":7472.32,"end":7476.32,"text":"得項行為人請求損害賠償"},{"start":7476.32,"end":7477.32,"text":"若今查明為"},{"start":7479.06,"end":7482.06,"text":"若今查明行為人系出於故意者"},{"start":7482.06,"end":7484.06,"text":"中央主管機關得以侵害"},{"start":7485.27,"end":7487.27,"text":"請結令請求損害"},{"start":7488.46,"end":7491.46,"text":"而一倍至三倍至懲罰性賠償金"},{"start":7491.46,"end":7494.46,"text":"第一項之行為人設及刑事責任者"},{"start":7494.46,"end":7496.46,"text":"由中央主管機關"},{"start":7496.94,"end":7499.94,"text":"因移送檢查機關偵辦"},{"start":7499.94,"end":7506.94,"text":"易得依刑事申訴法之規定提起自述等其他救濟"},{"start":7506.94,"end":7508.94,"text":"委員宗教兵等人提案第十六條"},{"start":7508.94,"end":7513.94,"text":"委員會針對依本條例辦理之採購案"},{"start":7513.94,"end":7516.94,"text":"及受由投資抵減獎勵或補助者"},{"start":7516.94,"end":7519.94,"text":"因定期或不定期進行查核"},{"start":7519.94,"end":7523.94,"text":"其查核之項目基準程序及其他"},{"start":7523.94,"end":7526.94,"text":"依徵循事項之辦法由委員會定之"},{"start":7526.94,"end":7529.94,"text":"前項查核涉及零組件產地溯源"},{"start":7529.94,"end":7534.94,"text":"資訊安全檢測及系統係數規格者"},{"start":7534.94,"end":7539.94,"text":"委員會得委託具公信力之第三方專業"},{"start":7541.72,"end":7545.72,"text":"驗證機構或法人辦理受查核之機關"},{"start":7545.72,"end":7549.72,"text":"得標廠商或獎勵補助之營利事業"},{"start":7549.72,"end":7553.72,"text":"對於前兩項支查核或檢測不得規避"},{"start":7553.72,"end":7557.72,"text":"妨礙或拒絕並應主動提供供應鏈來源"},{"start":7557.72,"end":7562.72,"text":"證明財務報表生產紀錄及其他相關佐證事項"},{"start":7563.9,"end":7568.9,"text":"經查核發現有違反國本條例第八條"},{"start":7568.9,"end":7571.9,"text":"國產化比例第九條資通安全規範"},{"start":7571.9,"end":7574.9,"text":"或有其他違法違約情形者"},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Amara.org 社群提供"},{"start":7742.5,"end":7748.5,"text":"投資資投資抵減其與其他投資抵減合併適用時"},{"start":7748.5,"end":7756.5,"text":"每一年度合計抵減金額不得超過當年度因那營利事業所得稅額百分之五十"},{"start":7757.35,"end":7761.35,"text":"委員王定理等人提案 同委員鍾嘉斌等人提案第七條"},{"start":7763.17,"end":7766.17,"text":"委員賴氏寶等是四人提案 第六條"},{"start":7793.17,"end":7798.17,"text":"自有因那營利事業所得稅之年度起 抵減當年度因那營利事業所得稅額"},{"start":7798.17,"end":7804.17,"text":"二 與支出金額百分之三限度內 自有因那營利事業所得稅之年度起"},{"start":7804.17,"end":7807.17,"text":"三年內抵減各年度因那營利事業所得稅額"},{"start":7807.17,"end":7813.17,"text":"前向無人載具公司與同一年度合併適用前向投資抵減及其他投資抵減時"},{"start":7813.17,"end":7820.17,"text":"其當年度合計得抵減總額已不超過當年度因那營利事業所得稅額百分之五五十為限"},{"start":7820.17,"end":7821.17,"text":"但最後"},{"start":7821.88,"end":7823.88,"text":"最後年度抵減金額不再呈現"},{"start":7823.88,"end":7829.88,"text":"前向無人載具公司申請適用第一項投資抵減 因提出具一定效益之投資計畫"},{"start":7829.88,"end":7833.88,"text":"經主管機關專業案核准 且與同一課稅年度已申請一次為限"},{"start":7833.88,"end":7839.88,"text":"前三項投資抵減之適用範圍 具一定效益之投資計畫 申請期限 申請程序"},{"start":7839.88,"end":7845.88,"text":"當年度合計得抵減總額之計算 及其他相關事項之辦法 由主管機關會同財政部定資"},{"start":7845.88,"end":7848.88,"text":"委員賴氏寶等四十四人提案第七條"},{"start":7848.88,"end":7856.88,"text":"為鼓勵無人載具公司之創意或擴充 營利事業原始認股或應募屬該無人載具公司發行之股票"},{"start":7856.88,"end":7862.88,"text":"成為該公司居民普通達三年以上 且該無人載具公司為該認股或應募金額"},{"start":7862.88,"end":7867.88,"text":"依其他法律規定 申請免徵營利事業所得稅或股東投資抵減者"},{"start":7867.88,"end":7871.88,"text":"得以其取得該股票之價款百分之二十限度內"},{"start":7871.88,"end":7874.88,"text":"至其有因那營利事業所得稅之年度起五年內"},{"start":7874.88,"end":7881.88,"text":"抵減各年度因那營利事業所得稅而 其每一年度得抵減總額已不超過該營利事業當年度"},{"start":7883.05,"end":7886.05,"text":"因那營利事業所得稅而百分之五十違憲"},{"start":7886.05,"end":7891.05,"text":"前項鎖定無人載具公司屬從事第四條第一項第二款第二目業務者"},{"start":7891.05,"end":7897.05,"text":"已未上市未上櫃公司或自設立登記日期未滿十年至上市上櫃公司違憲"},{"start":7898.51,"end":7908.51,"text":"第一項申請抵減之要件申請期限申請程序施行期限抵減率及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關會同財政部定制"},{"start":7908.51,"end":7915.51,"text":"文人大事保等事事人提案第八條個人與現金投資未上市或未上櫃之無人載具公司"},{"start":7915.51,"end":7921.51,"text":"且對同一公司當年度投資金額達新台幣一百萬元以上並取得該公司之新發行股份"},{"start":7921.51,"end":7928.51,"text":"持有期間達三年者得就投資金額百分之五十限度內自持有期間建滿三年之當年度起兩年內"},{"start":7928.51,"end":7934.51,"text":"自個人綜合所的稅額中減除每年得減除金額合計以新台幣五百萬元以違憲"},{"start":7934.51,"end":7939.51,"text":"前項鎖定無人載具公司屬從事第四條第一項第二款第一目業務者"},{"start":7939.51,"end":7945.51,"text":"以設立登記日期未滿十年至公司違憲屬從事同管第二目業務者"},{"start":7945.51,"end":7952.51,"text":"以設立登記日期未滿五年至公司違憲第一項個人資資格條件申請期限申請程序"},{"start":7952.51,"end":7958.51,"text":"持有期間計算核定機關及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關會同財政部定制委員"},{"start":7958.51,"end":7963.51,"text":"大事保等事事人提案第九條為鼓勵高階專業人員及技術投資人參與"},{"start":7963.51,"end":7968.51,"text":"無人載具公司之經營及研究發展並分享營運成果"},{"start":7968.51,"end":7974.51,"text":"無人載具公司高階專業人員因講求及技術投資人因技術入股"},{"start":7974.51,"end":7981.51,"text":"而取得之新發行股票得選擇免以紀錄取得股票當年度因課稅所得而課稅"},{"start":7981.51,"end":7987.51,"text":"已經決定不得並更但選擇免以紀錄取得股票當年度課稅者該股票"},{"start":7989.43,"end":7996.43,"text":"轉讓或帳簿劃撥制開設之有價證券保管劃撥帳戶時應將全部轉讓價格或"},{"start":7996.43,"end":8003.43,"text":"撥轉日之時價作為該轉讓或撥轉年度之收益依所得稅法規定生計算所得並申報課徵所得稅"},{"start":8005.14,"end":8014.14,"text":"高階專業人員或個人技術投資人因前項規定選擇免以紀錄取得股票當年度課稅自取得股票日起"},{"start":8014.14,"end":8020.14,"text":"持有股票且繼續於該公司任職或提供技術應用相關服務累計達兩年者"},{"start":8020.14,"end":8025.14,"text":"於實際轉讓或帳簿劃撥制開設之有價證券保管劃撥帳戶時"},{"start":8025.14,"end":8030.14,"text":"其全部轉讓價格高於股票取得之時價或價格者"},{"start":8030.14,"end":8038.14,"text":"以股票取得之時價或價格作為該轉讓或撥轉年度之收益依所得稅法規定計算所得並申報課徵所得稅"},{"start":8038.14,"end":8047.14,"text":"第一項所稱高階專業人員只具備無人載具相關專業或技術且擔任無人載具公司執行長或經理人以上職務職人員"},{"start":8047.14,"end":8053.14,"text":"所徵技術投資人只與無人載具公司所需技術體操出資資技術入股投資人"},{"start":8053.14,"end":8057.14,"text":"無人載具公司與高階專業人員或技術投資人取得股票當年度"},{"start":8057.14,"end":8064.14,"text":"因規定格式及文件資料送請主管機關認定使得適用第一項及第二項之獎勵"},{"start":8064.14,"end":8071.14,"text":"其認定結果並複製公司所在地址稅間積增機關第三項所定無人載具相關專業或技術範圍"},{"start":8071.14,"end":8076.14,"text":"送請認定期限與程序及其他相關事項之辦法由主管機關訂資"},{"start":8076.14,"end":8081.14,"text":"高階專業人員技術投資人取得股票緩刻與所得稅申報之程序"},{"start":8081.14,"end":8085.14,"text":"因提示文件資料及其他相關事項之辦法由財政部訂資"},{"start":8085.14,"end":8088.14,"text":"委員大事把投資試驗提案第十條"},{"start":8088.14,"end":8094.14,"text":"無人載具公司經董事會以董事三分之二以上之出席及出席董事過半數同意之決議"},{"start":8094.14,"end":8097.14,"text":"並經主管機關核准後得發行認股權證設"},{"start":8100.23,"end":8101.23,"text":"認股權證設"},{"start":8102.6,"end":8106.6,"text":"認股權評證與前條之高階專業人員或技術投資人"},{"start":8106.6,"end":8113.6,"text":"依前項規定持有認股權證認股權評證者得以約定價格認購特定數量之股份"},{"start":8113.6,"end":8115.6,"text":"其認購價格不得受公司"},{"start":8116.52,"end":8120.52,"text":"得不受公司法第140條不得第一票面金額之限制"},{"start":8120.52,"end":8127.52,"text":"文載具公司依前條第一項規定發行新股時不適用公司法267條規定"},{"start":8127.52,"end":8131.52,"text":"高階專業人員或技術投資人持有認股權評證"},{"start":8131.52,"end":8136.52,"text":"其認購取得股票之所得稅課徵及相關申報事項適用前條各項規定"},{"start":8136.52,"end":8143.52,"text":"依第一項規定申請主管機關核准發行認股權評證之要件文件及其他相關事項之辦法"},{"start":8143.52,"end":8147.52,"text":"由主管機關訂製文代資保等事實人提案第11條"},{"start":8147.52,"end":8153.52,"text":"依其他法令享有租稅優惠者不得就同意事項重複享有本條例所訂製租稅優惠"},{"start":8153.52,"end":8160.52,"text":"文載具公司最近三年因違反環境保護勞工資通安全或飛航安全相關法律且情質也重大"},{"start":8160.52,"end":8166.52,"text":"經過中央目的事業主管機關認定者不得依第五條及第六條規定申請租稅優惠"},{"start":8166.52,"end":8171.52,"text":"並停止及追回違章行為所屬年度依前開規定申請所獲得之租稅優惠"},{"start":8171.52,"end":8177.52,"text":"依前項規定應停止及追回租稅優惠者財政部因停止或追回之處分確定後"},{"start":8177.52,"end":8183.52,"text":"預計網站公開該無能載具公司之名稱文代資保等事實人提案第12條"},{"start":8183.52,"end":8189.52,"text":"新創製無人載具公司其主要技術提供者為公立專科以上學校或公立研究機關構"},{"start":8189.52,"end":8196.52,"text":"研究人員者不受教育人員任用條例第34條公務人員符法第14條第一項不得經營商業"},{"start":8196.52,"end":8202.52,"text":"股本總額10%第二項及第15條兼任他向業務制限制"},{"start":8202.52,"end":8206.52,"text":"為應遵守公職人員利益衝突迴避法相關規定"},{"start":8207.59,"end":8213.59,"text":"前項所稱新創製無人載具公司只至設立登記登記日期未滿8年者"},{"start":8213.59,"end":8219.59,"text":"第一項公立專科以上學校或公立研究機關構從事研究人員之認定得兼任職"},{"start":8219.59,"end":8227.59,"text":"得兼任職務與數額技術作價投資比例之限制經營商業之資訊公開利益迴避監督管理查核及其他"},{"start":8227.59,"end":8233.59,"text":"應遵循事項之辦法營運行政院會同考試人定知文代資保等事實人提案第13條"},{"start":8233.59,"end":8237.59,"text":"為提升無人載具技術加強產官學和"},{"start":8238.19,"end":8241.19,"text":"產官學研合作研究發展"},{"start":8241.19,"end":8250.19,"text":"初期無人載具產業升級公立專科以上學校或公立研究機關構之研發人員經學校或該機關構同意的"},{"start":8250.19,"end":8252.19,"text":"得到無人載具公司"},{"start":8251.96,"end":8255.96,"text":"研發諮詢委員或顧問委員代資保等事實人提案第18條"},{"start":8255.96,"end":8260.96,"text":"高階專業人員或技術投資人第9條第1項第10條第4項規定"},{"start":8261.41,"end":8264.41,"text":"選擇名義紀錄取得股票當年度課稅者"},{"start":8264.41,"end":8271.41,"text":"無人載具公司應與股東轉讓或辦理帳簿劃撥年度之次年度1月31日以前"},{"start":8271.41,"end":8278.41,"text":"依規定格式向該管稅金激增機關列單申報該已轉讓或辦理帳簿劃撥之股份資料"},{"start":8278.41,"end":8282.41,"text":"其未一線或未具實申報者稅間激增機關除現期"},{"start":8283.18,"end":8286.18,"text":"責令補報外,按其因申報或短期之所得金額"},{"start":8286.18,"end":8291.18,"text":"處無人載具公司負責人10%之罰還,但最高不得超過新台幣50萬元"},{"start":8291.18,"end":8293.18,"text":"最低不得低於新台幣5萬元"},{"start":8294.41,"end":8296.41,"text":"遺跡自動申報者減半處罰"},{"start":8298.08,"end":8303.08,"text":"無人載具公司經稅間激增機關現期責令補報"},{"start":8303.08,"end":8307.08,"text":"藉其為補報者按其因申報或短期之所得金額處"},{"start":8307.08,"end":8312.08,"text":"無人載具公司負責人15%之罰還,但最高不得超過新台幣100萬元"},{"start":8312.08,"end":8314.08,"text":"最低不得少於新台幣10萬元"},{"start":8314.08,"end":8316.08,"text":"委員賴世寶等43人提案"},{"start":8316.08,"end":8319.08,"text":"第五條,主管機關辦理本條例鎖定採購"},{"start":8319.08,"end":8324.08,"text":"因採購企業中訂定技術移轉及工業合作條款及工業合作"},{"start":8324.33,"end":8327.33,"text":"價值不得低於各該採購企業金額之40%"},{"start":8328.18,"end":8331.18,"text":"前項技術移轉及工業合作因以建立下列能量為目標"},{"start":8331.18,"end":8335.18,"text":"1、關鍵次系統之國內產製及自主維修"},{"start":8335.18,"end":8338.18,"text":"包括光電與雷達感測器、衛星與資料鏈、"},{"start":8338.18,"end":8344.18,"text":"飛行控制與自主導航軟體、人工智慧目標辨識及抗干擾、"},{"start":8344.18,"end":8345.18,"text":"抗衛星定位七變模組"},{"start":8345.18,"end":8349.18,"text":"2、國內共同生產、組裝、整合測試及後級維修能量"},{"start":8349.18,"end":8352.18,"text":"3、工業飛鴻化及自動安全排除"},{"start":8352.18,"end":8356.18,"text":"含有後門或二一模組織關鍵零組件"},{"start":8356.18,"end":8359.18,"text":"主管機關應會同經濟部、國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":8359.18,"end":8362.18,"text":"協調國家中商科學研究院相關法人及國內廠商"},{"start":8362.18,"end":8367.18,"text":"建立技術接收消化及產業化機制並培育相關人才"},{"start":8367.18,"end":8371.18,"text":"本條例所需經費應提撥不低於30%"},{"start":8371.18,"end":8375.18,"text":"專攻前三項技術移轉、接收產業化及維修能量建立之用"},{"start":8375.18,"end":8377.18,"text":"委員張家斌等上11人提案"},{"start":8377.18,"end":8381.18,"text":"以本條例之得標廠商及涉有租稅補助或政策優惠者"},{"start":8382.35,"end":8386.35,"text":"因落實生產過程之自動安全管控提供或生產之無人載具中"},{"start":8386.35,"end":8393.35,"text":"凡具備聯網資訊、資料運用、運算處理、電子控制、電力驅動或感測功能等"},{"start":8393.35,"end":8398.35,"text":"具自動安全疑慮之軟硬體、零組件及雲端資料運算服務"},{"start":8398.35,"end":8402.35,"text":"延續使用大陸地區產製或大陸地區廠牌之產品"},{"start":8402.35,"end":8406.35,"text":"亦不得由大陸地區人民、法人、團體或其他機構"},{"start":8406.35,"end":8410.35,"text":"所投資或具有實質控制權制器的提供"},{"start":8410.35,"end":8417.35,"text":"前項規定之外,屬非電子無通信聯網功能且無自動安全疑慮之基礎機構件"},{"start":8417.94,"end":8421.94,"text":"載具外殼或五金構件,經文物會或主管機關審查"},{"start":8421.94,"end":8425.94,"text":"確認國家安全風險者,得不受前項規定之限制"},{"start":8426.82,"end":8431.82,"text":"前項規定零組件之項目清單認定基準審查程序及其他應遵循"},{"start":8431.82,"end":8434.82,"text":"事項之辦法由委員會、會商相關機關訂資"},{"start":8434.82,"end":8438.82,"text":"委員會定義等17人提案,同委員、宗家兵等21人提案"},{"start":8438.82,"end":8441.82,"text":"委員宗家兵等21人提案第11條"},{"start":8441.82,"end":8444.82,"text":"委員會應會同交通部及相關目的事業主管機關"},{"start":8444.82,"end":8448.82,"text":"以本條例施行日期3年內建置無人載具交通"},{"start":8449.58,"end":8453.58,"text":"管理與運行監控系統以維護各類無人載具之運行"},{"start":8453.58,"end":8456.58,"text":"秩序及公共安全,經公告具一定條件之無人載具"},{"start":8456.58,"end":8460.58,"text":"應具備電子識別及與前項系統連線之功能"},{"start":8460.58,"end":8463.58,"text":"並遵從交通管理及運行管制"},{"start":8463.58,"end":8466.58,"text":"無人載具未遺前項規定連線或不遵從管制者"},{"start":8466.58,"end":8470.58,"text":"文物會或場域管理機關得令期改善或暫停運行"},{"start":8470.58,"end":8472.58,"text":"事項重大"},{"start":8473.04,"end":8476.04,"text":"安全事件時,其所有人或操作員應立即通報委員會"},{"start":8476.04,"end":8479.04,"text":"並妥善保存系統紀律與影像工查核"},{"start":8479.04,"end":8483.04,"text":"第一項系統是建置,第二項電子識別連線與運行管制規範"},{"start":8483.04,"end":8487.04,"text":"前項運行、正題運行要件與通報程序及其他應遵循"},{"start":8487.04,"end":8491.04,"text":"事項的辦法由交通部會商委員會及相關目的事業主管機關訂製"},{"start":8494.21,"end":8496.21,"text":"委員王定以改施經驗提案"},{"start":8497.08,"end":8499.08,"text":"第十條,通報委員抓到兵等二十元提案"},{"start":8499.08,"end":8501.08,"text":"第十一條"},{"start":8500.61,"end":8502.61,"text":"委員狀況並等二十元提案"},{"start":8502.61,"end":8506.61,"text":"第十三條,與本條例劃設至測試場域或測試的走廊內"},{"start":8506.61,"end":8511.61,"text":"從事無人載具之風群、超視距、多機協同、敵我、識別或反制"},{"start":8511.61,"end":8516.61,"text":"含無線電頻率干擾及武器使用、測試者、音響委員會申請許可"},{"start":8516.61,"end":8519.61,"text":"前項申請涉及音響或反反制測試者"},{"start":8519.61,"end":8524.61,"text":"委員應會同國防部及國家通訊傳播委員會辦理"},{"start":8524.61,"end":8526.61,"text":"設定數量以上無人載具之群飛系統者"},{"start":8527.53,"end":8530.53,"text":"委員應會商、數位發展部並同辦理資當安全檢測"},{"start":8530.53,"end":8535.53,"text":"第一項進階測試之名詞、定義及前二項之許可條件審查程序"},{"start":8536.52,"end":8540.52,"text":"此外,這項測試的行動將會進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8540.52,"end":8543.52,"text":"並將進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8543.52,"end":8546.52,"text":"並將進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8546.52,"end":8549.52,"text":"並將進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8549.52,"end":8552.52,"text":"並將進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8552.52,"end":8555.52,"text":"並將進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8555.52,"end":8558.52,"text":"並將進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8558.52,"end":8561.52,"text":"並將進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8561.52,"end":8564.52,"text":"並將進行在未來的一年內"},{"start":8537.36,"end":8541.36,"text":"資安檢測基準、安全管理技術規範及其他應遵循事項是辦法"},{"start":8541.36,"end":8545.36,"text":"由委員會商相關目的事業主管機關訂資"},{"start":8545.36,"end":8548.36,"text":"委員會第五等17人提案第12條"},{"start":8548.36,"end":8551.36,"text":"黨委員中交病等20人提案第13條"},{"start":8551.61,"end":8552.11,"text":"咳"},{"start":8552.82,"end":8554.82,"text":"文中交病等21人提案第15條"},{"start":8554.82,"end":8556.82,"text":"為提升政府行政效能"},{"start":8556.82,"end":8558.82,"text":"降低人員執勤風險及強化"},{"start":8558.82,"end":8562.82,"text":"災防應變衛星各級政府機關應依其應務執掌"},{"start":8562.82,"end":8565.82,"text":"積極評估並導入人採菌應用於資安尋訪"},{"start":8567.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這個"},{"start":9649.87,"end":9651.87,"text":"按鈕"},{"start":9652.55,"end":9656.55,"text":"也就是國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例"},{"start":9656.55,"end":9658.55,"text":"我們照著這個程序"},{"start":9660.41,"end":9662.41,"text":"一條一條的來做審議"},{"start":9662.41,"end":9664.41,"text":"我覺得這個是很重要的"},{"start":9664.41,"end":9666.41,"text":"而且他是國防安全"},{"start":9666.41,"end":9668.41,"text":"以及經濟"},{"start":9669.17,"end":9671.17,"text":"的一個發展能夠兼具"},{"start":9671.17,"end":9673.17,"text":"以上建言"},{"start":9673.08,"end":9675.08,"text":"好接下來我們請陳冠廷委員"},{"start":9676.24,"end":9678.24,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9678.24,"end":9680.24,"text":"其實剛才這個中交病委員講的"},{"start":9680.24,"end":9682.24,"text":"非常認同"},{"start":9682.24,"end":9684.24,"text":"希望說是用採購跟"},{"start":9684.24,"end":9686.24,"text":"非採購的這兩個方向"},{"start":9686.24,"end":9688.24,"text":"去走會比較才可以把整個東西"},{"start":9688.24,"end":9690.24,"text":"好好的審"},{"start":9690.24,"end":9692.24,"text":"我還是要再提醒各位委員"},{"start":9692.24,"end":9694.24,"text":"我們剛才楊委員有提到是長期"},{"start":9694.24,"end":9696.24,"text":"等等的我們也同意"},{"start":9696.24,"end":9698.24,"text":"但是我們同時要"},{"start":9698.18,"end":9700.18,"text":"很專注一件事情就是他可能不是長期"},{"start":9700.18,"end":9702.18,"text":"的威脅而已他可能短期"},{"start":9702.18,"end":9704.18,"text":"馬上就要面臨威脅"},{"start":9704.18,"end":9706.18,"text":"短期如果是明年可是後年可能我們"},{"start":9706.18,"end":9708.18,"text":"不知道對方會採取什麼樣的做法"},{"start":9708.18,"end":9710.18,"text":"那變成說我們現在的採購必須"},{"start":9710.18,"end":9712.18,"text":"要因應短期迫切"},{"start":9712.18,"end":9714.18,"text":"的威脅也要做因應"},{"start":9714.18,"end":9716.18,"text":"所以用採購跟非採購"},{"start":9716.18,"end":9718.18,"text":"這兩個方向來先去做審理"},{"start":9718.18,"end":9720.18,"text":"我覺得會會比較好因為發展"},{"start":9720.18,"end":9722.18,"text":"是為了長期面對長期的威脅"},{"start":9722.18,"end":9724.18,"text":"但我們現在看到各個"},{"start":9724.18,"end":9726.18,"text":"的報告也有可能是明年也有可能是後年"},{"start":9726.18,"end":9728.18,"text":"那如果我們不具備這樣濱海作戰的能力的話"},{"start":9728.18,"end":9730.18,"text":"那等於是可能"},{"start":9730.18,"end":9732.18,"text":"會招致他們的等於是"},{"start":9732.18,"end":9734.18,"text":"邀請他們說我們現在"},{"start":9734.18,"end":9736.18,"text":"沒有這個能力喔我們明年也沒有"},{"start":9736.18,"end":9738.18,"text":"後年也沒有所以這個部分請大家"},{"start":9738.18,"end":9740.18,"text":"能夠我建議"},{"start":9740.18,"end":9742.18,"text":"是採取中嘉賓委員的這個方式"},{"start":9742.18,"end":9744.18,"text":"來去審理"},{"start":9745.71,"end":9747.71,"text":"好謝謝接下來請邱毅委員"},{"start":9749.85,"end":9751.85,"text":"謝謝主席喔我想"},{"start":9751.85,"end":9753.85,"text":"剛剛幾位委員的發言我們"},{"start":9753.85,"end":9755.85,"text":"其實就可以非常清楚的知道"},{"start":9756.57,"end":9758.57,"text":"當時院會交下來"},{"start":9758.57,"end":9760.57,"text":"這幾個版本"},{"start":9760.57,"end":9762.57,"text":"把它放在經濟委員會審查的"},{"start":9762.57,"end":9764.57,"text":"荒謬性到底在哪裡"},{"start":9765.83,"end":9767.83,"text":"國防的採購"},{"start":9767.85,"end":9769.85,"text":"主管機關主審單位"},{"start":9769.85,"end":9771.85,"text":"怎麼會是在經濟委員會呢"},{"start":9774.03,"end":9776.03,"text":"國防戰略的思維"},{"start":9777.1,"end":9781.1,"text":"國防的採購本來就應該在國防委員會去處理啊"},{"start":9781.91,"end":9783.91,"text":"那產業的發展"},{"start":9784.53,"end":9786.53,"text":"無人載具的產業發展"},{"start":9786.53,"end":9788.53,"text":"在經濟委員會"},{"start":9788.53,"end":9790.53,"text":"這個一定是無可厚非而且"},{"start":9790.53,"end":9792.53,"text":"大家會全力的支持"},{"start":9792.91,"end":9794.91,"text":"但是你現在台灣面臨到的"},{"start":9794.91,"end":9796.91,"text":"這個最迫切的問題"},{"start":9796.91,"end":9798.91,"text":"是國防軍事"},{"start":9798.91,"end":9800.91,"text":"採購上面對於台灣的"},{"start":9800.91,"end":9802.91,"text":"國防保衛上面"},{"start":9802.91,"end":9804.91,"text":"我們迫切需要的"},{"start":9805.91,"end":9807.91,"text":"這些無人載具"},{"start":9807.98,"end":9809.98,"text":"的採購"},{"start":9809.49,"end":9811.49,"text":"那現在這麼多的版本"},{"start":9811.49,"end":9813.49,"text":"這幾個版本"},{"start":9813.49,"end":9815.49,"text":"單單條例名稱"},{"start":9815.49,"end":9817.49,"text":"單單立法定義"},{"start":9817.49,"end":9819.49,"text":"單單阻止"},{"start":9819.49,"end":9821.49,"text":"就完全不相同"},{"start":9822.28,"end":9824.28,"text":"所以剛剛宗家兵建議的這三個方向的"},{"start":9824.28,"end":9826.28,"text":"討論"},{"start":9826.28,"end":9828.28,"text":"分開做討論"},{"start":9828.28,"end":9830.28,"text":"其實某一個程度上"},{"start":9830.28,"end":9832.28,"text":"也代表了"},{"start":9832.69,"end":9834.69,"text":"中華民國立法院的荒謬之處啊"},{"start":9837.28,"end":9839.28,"text":"我擔任立法委員二十多年來"},{"start":9839.28,"end":9841.28,"text":"我從來沒有看過"},{"start":9841.28,"end":9843.28,"text":"國防採購條例"},{"start":9843.28,"end":9845.28,"text":"是在經濟委員會去主審"},{"start":9845.28,"end":9847.28,"text":"國防採購條例"},{"start":9847.28,"end":9849.28,"text":"跟發展條例"},{"start":9849.28,"end":9851.28,"text":"是放在一個條例裡頭"},{"start":9851.28,"end":9853.28,"text":"去審理"},{"start":9853.28,"end":9855.28,"text":"然後我們可以看到國民黨委員的"},{"start":9855.28,"end":9857.28,"text":"版本賴世保委員的提案"},{"start":9857.28,"end":9859.28,"text":"有國防戰略"},{"start":9859.28,"end":9861.28,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":9861.28,"end":9863.28,"text":"國外採購及技術"},{"start":9863.28,"end":9865.28,"text":"合作特別條例"},{"start":9865.28,"end":9867.28,"text":"我要請教一下"},{"start":9867.32,"end":9869.32,"text":"這個不是應該放在國防委員會去主審嗎"},{"start":9869.32,"end":9871.32,"text":"怎麼會放在"},{"start":9871.32,"end":9873.32,"text":"經濟委員會咧"},{"start":9873.39,"end":9875.39,"text":"賴世保委員同時又提了一個"},{"start":9875.39,"end":9877.39,"text":"無人載具產業升級發展條例"},{"start":9881.69,"end":9883.69,"text":"所以請這個"},{"start":9883.69,"end":9885.69,"text":"英明、睿智的主席"},{"start":9888.06,"end":9890.06,"text":"您一直講來自學術界"},{"start":9890.06,"end":9892.06,"text":"您一直講這個產業發展您是專業"},{"start":9893.46,"end":9895.46,"text":"就您的專業上來看"},{"start":9896.46,"end":9898.46,"text":"採購跟產業發展"},{"start":9898.46,"end":9900.46,"text":"我們要如何來審理"},{"start":9900.46,"end":9902.46,"text":"這麼多的不同的版本"},{"start":9904.71,"end":9906.71,"text":"好我們現在請這個"},{"start":9907.87,"end":9909.87,"text":"陳田飛國人"},{"start":9910.58,"end":9912.58,"text":"他要去"},{"start":9912.83,"end":9914.83,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":9914.83,"end":9916.83,"text":"我想我在質詢的時候"},{"start":9916.83,"end":9918.83,"text":"其實我們講得非常清楚"},{"start":9919.71,"end":9921.71,"text":"我們無人機的產業"},{"start":9921.71,"end":9923.71,"text":"基本上早就進行當中"},{"start":9925.43,"end":9927.43,"text":"而且在全國各地"},{"start":9927.43,"end":9929.43,"text":"我們都有無人機的產業發展"},{"start":9932.17,"end":9934.17,"text":"就光就台南來講"},{"start":9934.17,"end":9936.17,"text":"我們其實都一直在推動"},{"start":9937.92,"end":9939.92,"text":"所以我認為說"},{"start":9939.92,"end":9941.92,"text":"產業發展是一個目標"},{"start":9941.92,"end":9943.92,"text":"而且現在進行式"},{"start":9945.36,"end":9947.36,"text":"我不知道為什麼現在還要去談"},{"start":9947.36,"end":9949.36,"text":"產業發展條例"},{"start":9950.85,"end":9952.85,"text":"這個早就在進行當中的"},{"start":9952.85,"end":9954.85,"text":"我們為什麼要把它"},{"start":9954.85,"end":9956.85,"text":"再拉回到原點呢"},{"start":9956.85,"end":9958.85,"text":"這個是一個很奇怪的"},{"start":9958.85,"end":9960.85,"text":"我們今天"},{"start":9960.85,"end":9962.85,"text":"重要的應該是要有一個"},{"start":9962.85,"end":9964.85,"text":"他們依循的方向"},{"start":9964.85,"end":9966.85,"text":"當他們"},{"start":9966.85,"end":9968.85,"text":"要"},{"start":9968.3,"end":9972.3,"text":"出口或是要進口相關的一些物件"},{"start":9973.68,"end":9977.68,"text":"要有一些採購特別條例的方向"},{"start":9978.98,"end":9980.98,"text":"才能讓我們所有的"},{"start":9980.98,"end":9982.98,"text":"產業發展可以"},{"start":9982.98,"end":9984.98,"text":"更邁進一步"},{"start":9985.31,"end":9987.31,"text":"這是完全不同的"},{"start":9987.31,"end":9989.31,"text":"可是今天"},{"start":9989.31,"end":9991.31,"text":"把"},{"start":9989.66,"end":9991.66,"text":"產業發展條例"},{"start":9991.66,"end":9993.66,"text":"跟採購特別條例"},{"start":9993.66,"end":9995.66,"text":"放在一起"},{"start":9995.43,"end":9997.43,"text":"我不知道這怎麼審"},{"start":9997.54,"end":9999.54,"text":"因為特別條例的方向"},{"start":10000.36,"end":10002.36,"text":"跟"},{"start":10002.3,"end":10004.3,"text":"採購"},{"start":10003.8,"end":10005.8,"text":"特別條例跟產業發展條例"},{"start":10005.8,"end":10007.8,"text":"這個是完全不同的"},{"start":10009.76,"end":10011.76,"text":"所以我真的拜託說"},{"start":10011.76,"end":10013.76,"text":"我們如果"},{"start":10013.76,"end":10015.76,"text":"為了無人機的發展好"},{"start":10016.59,"end":10018.59,"text":"為了我們所有國防自主方向"},{"start":10018.59,"end":10020.59,"text":"有一個好的依據"},{"start":10024.02,"end":10026.02,"text":"我們應該是要把它"},{"start":10026.02,"end":10028.02,"text":"分開"},{"start":10028.02,"end":10030.02,"text":"好好地審慎處理"},{"start":10030.02,"end":10032.02,"text":"尤其國防自主"},{"start":10032.02,"end":10034.02,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":10034.02,"end":10036.02,"text":"採購特別條例"},{"start":10036.02,"end":10038.02,"text":"這個部分是攸關我們"},{"start":10038.02,"end":10040.02,"text":"未來國家國防"},{"start":10040.02,"end":10042.02,"text":"還有我們"},{"start":10042.02,"end":10044.02,"text":"無人機的一個進一步"},{"start":10044.02,"end":10046.02,"text":"發展非常重要的"},{"start":10046.02,"end":10048.02,"text":"一個階段"},{"start":10048.02,"end":10050.02,"text":"真的不能做這樣子"},{"start":10049.99,"end":10051.99,"text":"所謂的"},{"start":10051.99,"end":10053.99,"text":"含糊不明"},{"start":10053.08,"end":10055.08,"text":"然後不吃"},{"start":10055.57,"end":10057.57,"text":"如何去定位"},{"start":10057.57,"end":10059.57,"text":"我們的一個方向"},{"start":10061.07,"end":10063.07,"text":"我們立法院不應該做這麼草率"},{"start":10063.07,"end":10065.07,"text":"而且"},{"start":10065.07,"end":10067.07,"text":"這麼樣讓大家"},{"start":10067.07,"end":10069.07,"text":"無所適從的"},{"start":10069.07,"end":10071.07,"text":"一個處理"},{"start":10071.07,"end":10073.07,"text":"甚至讓所有的行政單位"},{"start":10073.07,"end":10075.07,"text":"覺得莫名其妙"},{"start":10075.07,"end":10077.07,"text":"甚至所有"},{"start":10077.07,"end":10079.07,"text":"國家的發展"},{"start":10079.07,"end":10081.07,"text":"也面臨一個莫名"},{"start":10081.07,"end":10083.07,"text":"奇妙的狀況"},{"start":10083.07,"end":10085.07,"text":"所以我們拜託主席"},{"start":10085.07,"end":10087.07,"text":"我們要身兼一個國家"},{"start":10087.07,"end":10089.07,"text":"未來發展非常"},{"start":10089.07,"end":10091.07,"text":"重要的責任"},{"start":10091.07,"end":10093.07,"text":"立法委員不應該"},{"start":10093.07,"end":10095.07,"text":"如此草率"},{"start":10095.07,"end":10097.07,"text":"面臨我們國家的發展"},{"start":10098.13,"end":10100.13,"text":"好,接下來我們請這個林主任委員"},{"start":10100.13,"end":10102.13,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10102.37,"end":10104.37,"text":"好,謝謝主席"},{"start":10104.37,"end":10106.37,"text":"我想其實我在質詢的時候也有講過"},{"start":10106.37,"end":10108.37,"text":"為什麼我們現在會審這個"},{"start":10108.37,"end":10110.37,"text":"無人載具的相關的"},{"start":10110.37,"end":10112.37,"text":"採購,那是因為在"},{"start":10112.37,"end":10114.37,"text":"1.25兆的國防特別預算當中"},{"start":10114.37,"end":10116.37,"text":"整個無人機的採購"},{"start":10116.37,"end":10118.37,"text":"整個被砍掉了4700億"},{"start":10118.37,"end":10120.37,"text":"當時我相信"},{"start":10120.37,"end":10122.37,"text":"在野黨的委員也承受了非常大的"},{"start":10122.37,"end":10124.37,"text":"壓力,因為民眾是認為"},{"start":10124.37,"end":10126.37,"text":"這個採購其實必須留下來的"},{"start":10126.37,"end":10128.37,"text":"不應該全部砍掉"},{"start":10128.37,"end":10130.37,"text":"這也是為什麼後來"},{"start":10130.37,"end":10132.37,"text":"包括我相信國民黨民眾黨的"},{"start":10132.37,"end":10134.37,"text":"委員也都相繼提出了"},{"start":10134.37,"end":10136.37,"text":"版本希望能夠發展無人"},{"start":10136.37,"end":10138.37,"text":"載具,如果是這樣的狀況底下"},{"start":10138.37,"end":10140.37,"text":"的話真的就如同前面"},{"start":10140.37,"end":10142.37,"text":"民進黨的幾位委員所說的"},{"start":10142.37,"end":10144.37,"text":"第一個是當務之急的國防"},{"start":10144.37,"end":10146.37,"text":"採購,我們其實必須要強化"},{"start":10146.37,"end":10148.37,"text":"因為無人載具"},{"start":10148.37,"end":10150.37,"text":"在現在的靜態戰爭當中"},{"start":10150.37,"end":10152.37,"text":"真的就是像台灣這種"},{"start":10152.37,"end":10154.37,"text":"需要以小搏大非常"},{"start":10154.37,"end":10156.37,"text":"重要,甚至於連大國"},{"start":10156.37,"end":10158.37,"text":"在第一線也都是透過"},{"start":10158.37,"end":10160.37,"text":"無人載具當做第一線"},{"start":10160.37,"end":10162.37,"text":"去做不論是防衛或者是"},{"start":10162.37,"end":10164.37,"text":"整個國家的"},{"start":10164.37,"end":10166.37,"text":"自主提升的部分,那至於"},{"start":10166.37,"end":10168.37,"text":"產業的發展,我想"},{"start":10168.37,"end":10170.37,"text":"其實不只是台南啦,包括"},{"start":10170.37,"end":10172.37,"text":"桃園,包括宜蘭,其實現在"},{"start":10172.37,"end":10174.37,"text":"全國的各個縣市"},{"start":10174.37,"end":10176.37,"text":"都有超過275"},{"start":10176.37,"end":10178.37,"text":"家的廠商,他們已經在做"},{"start":10178.37,"end":10180.37,"text":"無人載具的發展"},{"start":10180.37,"end":10182.37,"text":"而發展的過程中需要的當然"},{"start":10182.37,"end":10184.37,"text":"就是穩定的訂單以及"},{"start":10184.37,"end":10186.37,"text":"政府的需求,那麼在國內的"},{"start":10186.37,"end":10188.37,"text":"產業的部分,怎麼樣提供穩定的"},{"start":10188.37,"end":10190.37,"text":"訂單跟需求,那當然"},{"start":10190.37,"end":10192.37,"text":"就是產業發展非常重要的一環"},{"start":10192.37,"end":10194.37,"text":"所以我還是認同就是"},{"start":10194.37,"end":10196.37,"text":"急需的採購,應該"},{"start":10196.37,"end":10198.37,"text":"要符合國防部的需求,我們現在"},{"start":10198.37,"end":10200.37,"text":"應該趕快來分這個"},{"start":10200.37,"end":10202.37,"text":"部分來審下去,那麼至於產業"},{"start":10202.37,"end":10204.37,"text":"的發展,我相信沒有人"},{"start":10204.37,"end":10206.37,"text":"敢說無人艇、無人艦、"},{"start":10206.37,"end":10208.37,"text":"無人機不重要"},{"start":10208.37,"end":10210.37,"text":"那麼在如何獲得"},{"start":10210.37,"end":10212.37,"text":"國防上面的需求,以及"},{"start":10212.37,"end":10214.37,"text":"未來前進無人"},{"start":10214.37,"end":10216.37,"text":"的所無人載具當中的飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":10216.37,"end":10218.37,"text":"台灣不能錯失"},{"start":10218.37,"end":10220.37,"text":"那如何加入飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":10220.37,"end":10222.37,"text":"我想這個國防的"},{"start":10222.37,"end":10224.37,"text":"需求一定是國防部需要"},{"start":10224.37,"end":10226.37,"text":"那麼經濟部就是給予協助"},{"start":10226.37,"end":10228.37,"text":"所以我也認同,採購跟"},{"start":10228.37,"end":10230.37,"text":"產業發展就是應該要分開來審"},{"start":10230.37,"end":10232.37,"text":"我們今天才可能有進度"},{"start":10233.72,"end":10235.72,"text":"好,接下來我們請賴世保委員"},{"start":10235.72,"end":10237.72,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10238.57,"end":10240.57,"text":"謝謝主席,要一起更先進"},{"start":10241.25,"end":10243.25,"text":"這個我們到底是現在是要"},{"start":10243.25,"end":10245.25,"text":"案子趕快審"},{"start":10245.25,"end":10247.25,"text":"還是說一直在這裡扯來扯去"},{"start":10247.25,"end":10249.25,"text":"一直罵戰役黨,罵我的版本"},{"start":10249.25,"end":10251.25,"text":"只要戰役黨版本,一直罵"},{"start":10251.25,"end":10253.25,"text":"罵有什麼意義呢,請問各位"},{"start":10253.25,"end":10255.25,"text":"我們希望這個版本趕快往前走"},{"start":10256.3,"end":10258.3,"text":"對不對,趕快往前走"},{"start":10258.3,"end":10260.3,"text":"不要忘了"},{"start":10260.3,"end":10262.3,"text":"這是院會交辦"},{"start":10262.3,"end":10264.3,"text":"下來的,我們講了"},{"start":10264.3,"end":10266.3,"text":"半天沒有辦法推翻院會"},{"start":10266.3,"end":10268.3,"text":"委員會不能推翻院會"},{"start":10268.3,"end":10270.3,"text":"院會最大"},{"start":10270.3,"end":10272.3,"text":"院會就通過了"},{"start":10272.3,"end":10274.3,"text":"就是經濟委員會主審"},{"start":10274.3,"end":10276.3,"text":"你口口揮,一直說國防"},{"start":10276.3,"end":10278.3,"text":"要來替,還沒重新提案"},{"start":10278.3,"end":10280.3,"text":"一直拖"},{"start":10280.35,"end":10282.35,"text":"對不對,不要"},{"start":10282.35,"end":10284.35,"text":"一直在扯這個東西"},{"start":10284.35,"end":10286.35,"text":"我們現在就來審第一條"},{"start":10286.35,"end":10288.35,"text":"就是法案名稱,這樣子"},{"start":10288.35,"end":10290.35,"text":"大家是不是同意,不同意就保留"},{"start":10290.35,"end":10292.35,"text":"要怎麼處理,還是要標管都沒關係"},{"start":10293.92,"end":10295.92,"text":"不要一直扯"},{"start":10295.92,"end":10297.92,"text":"然後就說,這就是這樣斷了"},{"start":10297.92,"end":10299.92,"text":"請問經濟部"},{"start":10299.92,"end":10301.92,"text":"有沒有無人機產業發展條例"},{"start":10301.92,"end":10303.92,"text":"沒有啊,不要隨便講"},{"start":10303.92,"end":10305.92,"text":"沒有,根本就沒有"},{"start":10305.92,"end":10307.92,"text":"沒有無人機產業技術"},{"start":10307.92,"end":10309.92,"text":"升級發展條例"},{"start":10309.92,"end":10311.92,"text":"沒有這樣的法案"},{"start":10311.92,"end":10313.92,"text":"不要隨便講"},{"start":10313.92,"end":10315.92,"text":"我提交的有什麼不對"},{"start":10316.04,"end":10318.04,"text":"我提的就是希望"},{"start":10318.04,"end":10320.04,"text":"無人機產業技術"},{"start":10320.04,"end":10322.04,"text":"升級再,升級然後"},{"start":10322.04,"end":10324.04,"text":"深耕在台灣,包括"},{"start":10324.04,"end":10326.04,"text":"我們希望國外的廠商,來台灣設廠"},{"start":10327.45,"end":10329.45,"text":"任何國外的,先進的無人機"},{"start":10329.45,"end":10331.45,"text":"無人艇,無人載具的"},{"start":10331.45,"end":10333.45,"text":"技術,能夠"},{"start":10333.45,"end":10335.45,"text":"移到台灣,投資台灣"},{"start":10336.27,"end":10338.27,"text":"我們都給他,租賀的前年"},{"start":10338.27,"end":10340.27,"text":"人才方面"},{"start":10340.27,"end":10342.27,"text":"什麼資源,等等的,比照升級條例"},{"start":10342.27,"end":10344.27,"text":"給他這樣的東西,這有什麼不對"},{"start":10344.27,"end":10346.27,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":10346.27,"end":10348.27,"text":"今天宏"},{"start":10348.27,"end":10350.27,"text":"宏委員當召委"},{"start":10350.27,"end":10352.27,"text":"他主持的案子"},{"start":10352.27,"end":10354.27,"text":"是有憑有據,院會"},{"start":10354.27,"end":10356.27,"text":"交下來,你再扯那些"},{"start":10356.27,"end":10358.27,"text":"一直說,啊,這個不應該在這裡審"},{"start":10358.27,"end":10360.27,"text":"我們今天是要趕快給他審"},{"start":10360.27,"end":10362.27,"text":"第一條"},{"start":10362.27,"end":10364.27,"text":"我們要法案名稱"},{"start":10364.27,"end":10366.27,"text":"到底各位,是不是同意"},{"start":10366.27,"end":10368.27,"text":"這個行政院的"},{"start":10368.27,"end":10370.27,"text":"那我"},{"start":10369.75,"end":10371.75,"text":"這個發展無人機沒有人反對"},{"start":10371.75,"end":10373.75,"text":"發展無人載具,沒有人反對"},{"start":10373.75,"end":10375.75,"text":"但是我們反對,特別一算"},{"start":10376.32,"end":10378.32,"text":"我們要編代年度一算"},{"start":10378.32,"end":10380.32,"text":"就是這樣,差別在這裡"},{"start":10380.32,"end":10382.32,"text":"所以國民黨團團"},{"start":10382.32,"end":10384.32,"text":"這個,科技發展"},{"start":10384.32,"end":10386.32,"text":"採購條例,也可以"},{"start":10386.32,"end":10388.32,"text":"我這個都可以,這麼多版本"},{"start":10388.32,"end":10390.32,"text":"看大家怎麼整合"},{"start":10390.32,"end":10392.32,"text":"我覺得,與其在這裡一直檢討"},{"start":10392.32,"end":10394.32,"text":"上個禮拜通過"},{"start":10394.32,"end":10396.32,"text":"上上禮拜通過的"},{"start":10396.35,"end":10398.35,"text":"這個我們院會交辦下來的"},{"start":10398.35,"end":10400.35,"text":"請問各位你怎麼去否決他呢"},{"start":10400.35,"end":10402.35,"text":"你怎麼否決我們主席"},{"start":10402.35,"end":10404.35,"text":"洪主席的"},{"start":10404.35,"end":10406.35,"text":"洪昭偉他的法定"},{"start":10406.35,"end":10408.35,"text":"P位"},{"start":10408.35,"end":10410.35,"text":"他現在就是,這個案子"},{"start":10410.35,"end":10412.35,"text":"你們到底又不要嗎"},{"start":10412.11,"end":10414.11,"text":"我們都要啊"},{"start":10414.11,"end":10416.11,"text":"你們不要是假裝"},{"start":10416.11,"end":10418.11,"text":"表面上要,事實上不要"},{"start":10418.11,"end":10420.11,"text":"一定來鬥爭而已,這個有什麼好鬥爭的"},{"start":10420.11,"end":10422.11,"text":"就是,你們兩千一,我們兩千四"},{"start":10422.11,"end":10424.11,"text":"給你,我們外加五百都給你"},{"start":10424.11,"end":10426.11,"text":"這麼快審,這麼快給他過法"},{"start":10426.11,"end":10428.11,"text":"不是這樣子嗎"},{"start":10428.11,"end":10430.11,"text":"你會再,一定要說"},{"start":10430.11,"end":10432.11,"text":"一定要拿回國防委員會"},{"start":10432.11,"end":10434.11,"text":"你又重新來喔,時間拖的喔"},{"start":10434.11,"end":10436.11,"text":"八月底,不會刪喔"},{"start":10436.24,"end":10438.24,"text":"即便像中,這個要中委員講的"},{"start":10438.24,"end":10440.24,"text":"這個要中間廢委員講的"},{"start":10440.24,"end":10442.24,"text":"說什麼,今天出去"},{"start":10442.24,"end":10444.24,"text":"什麼,在八月底以前"},{"start":10445.13,"end":10447.13,"text":"如果按照這個行程,也很好啊"},{"start":10447.13,"end":10449.13,"text":"有什麼不好"},{"start":10450.18,"end":10452.18,"text":"各位你可以想一想,這趕快出去"},{"start":10452.18,"end":10454.18,"text":"趕快有錢"},{"start":10453.57,"end":10455.57,"text":"國防部長,難道你反對嗎"},{"start":10455.57,"end":10457.57,"text":"趕快給你錢,你去反對嗎"},{"start":10457.57,"end":10459.57,"text":"一定要特別條例,是怎樣"},{"start":10459.57,"end":10461.57,"text":"是因為事先都已經"},{"start":10461.57,"end":10463.57,"text":"想好了,還怎麼樣"},{"start":10463.57,"end":10465.57,"text":"是怎樣,就一定要特別條例"},{"start":10465.77,"end":10467.77,"text":"我去美國的時候"},{"start":10468,"end":10470,"text":"美國的相關團隊,去要怎樣"},{"start":10470,"end":10472,"text":"清清楚楚,只要Bingo預算"},{"start":10472.89,"end":10474.89,"text":"特別預算,或者是一般預算"},{"start":10474.89,"end":10476.89,"text":"他們不care"},{"start":10477.26,"end":10479.26,"text":"主席都可以作證,他在場"},{"start":10479.26,"end":10481.26,"text":"他都有聽到"},{"start":10480.72,"end":10482.72,"text":"我們的揚權委員也一起都有聽到"},{"start":10483.89,"end":10485.89,"text":"人家不會再用你特別預算"},{"start":10485.89,"end":10487.89,"text":"還是這個一般預算"},{"start":10487.89,"end":10489.89,"text":"現在來講"},{"start":10489.89,"end":10491.89,"text":"執政黨的委員制,卡在一直在糾結兩件事情"},{"start":10491.89,"end":10493.89,"text":"第一個,一定要國防委員會審"},{"start":10495.3,"end":10497.3,"text":"就院會叫下來了"},{"start":10497.3,"end":10499.3,"text":"第二個,一定要特別預算"},{"start":10499.3,"end":10501.3,"text":"國防部長一定要特別預算"},{"start":10501.3,"end":10503.3,"text":"美國都說,一般預算都可以"},{"start":10503.3,"end":10505.3,"text":"只要變主預算,比較快"},{"start":10508.58,"end":10510.58,"text":"這個案子給他過,就可以便利算了"},{"start":10511.94,"end":10513.94,"text":"好,謝一鳳委員"},{"start":10513.94,"end":10515.94,"text":"兩分鐘好,拜託"},{"start":10515.65,"end":10521.65,"text":"其實大家都沒有反對無人載具的相關條例"},{"start":10521.65,"end":10523.65,"text":"我看了所有黨團的意見"},{"start":10523.65,"end":10527.65,"text":"當然,個別委員以及黨團的版本"},{"start":10527.65,"end":10529.65,"text":"從名稱開始"},{"start":10529.65,"end":10531.65,"text":"就有一點非常分歧"},{"start":10531.65,"end":10533.65,"text":"那這樣子的"},{"start":10533.65,"end":10535.65,"text":"就是說,如果大家都希望"},{"start":10535.65,"end":10537.65,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":10537.65,"end":10539.65,"text":"不管是我們的國防以及產業"},{"start":10539.65,"end":10541.65,"text":"都有共同的幫助的話"},{"start":10541.65,"end":10543.65,"text":"那我覺得"},{"start":10543.65,"end":10545.65,"text":"是不是應該要儘速的"},{"start":10545.65,"end":10547.65,"text":"在今天通過"},{"start":10547.65,"end":10549.65,"text":"就是說,如果大家有歧義的話"},{"start":10549.65,"end":10551.65,"text":"我們是不是就保留"},{"start":10551.65,"end":10553.65,"text":"然後,等到就是說"},{"start":10553.65,"end":10555.65,"text":"讓案子出委員會"},{"start":10555.65,"end":10557.65,"text":"讓我們可以進一步的"},{"start":10557.65,"end":10559.65,"text":"有進展"},{"start":10559.65,"end":10561.65,"text":"不要再退回,因為如果退回"},{"start":10561.65,"end":10563.65,"text":"對於整體的時間"},{"start":10563.65,"end":10565.65,"text":"因為會有延宕的"},{"start":10565.65,"end":10567.65,"text":"這樣子的情況"},{"start":10567.65,"end":10569.65,"text":"那是不是為了讓"},{"start":10569.65,"end":10571.65,"text":"我們整體的產業發展以及國防"},{"start":10571.65,"end":10573.65,"text":"都有保障"},{"start":10573.65,"end":10575.65,"text":"是不是能夠儘速的"},{"start":10575.65,"end":10577.65,"text":"能夠在今日,然後能夠出委員會"},{"start":10579.61,"end":10581.61,"text":"喔,那個"},{"start":10581.61,"end":10583.61,"text":"第二輪發言再簡短一點"},{"start":10583.61,"end":10585.61,"text":"可以嗎,好不好,來,莊嘉賓"},{"start":10585.61,"end":10587.61,"text":"再來是陳廷飛再邱毅"},{"start":10587.61,"end":10589.61,"text":"謝謝,我們可以看"},{"start":10589.61,"end":10591.61,"text":"條文對照表"},{"start":10591.61,"end":10593.61,"text":"請賴市法委員看看第十頁"},{"start":10593.61,"end":10595.61,"text":"你的版本"},{"start":10595.61,"end":10597.61,"text":"第六條,本條例所需經費上限"},{"start":10597.61,"end":10599.61,"text":"信貸幣500億"},{"start":10599.61,"end":10601.61,"text":"以特別預算方式編列"},{"start":10601.61,"end":10603.61,"text":"這個應該不是AI寫的啦"},{"start":10603.61,"end":10605.61,"text":"應該是賴委員自己起草的"},{"start":10605.61,"end":10607.61,"text":"他可能一直忘掉了"},{"start":10607.61,"end":10609.61,"text":"那我想我剛剛一直坐在這裡"},{"start":10609.61,"end":10611.61,"text":"我覺得每個發言的委員都很持平"},{"start":10611.61,"end":10613.61,"text":"並沒有什麼咧,歐北妹"},{"start":10613.61,"end":10615.61,"text":"我想這個大家都互相尊重"},{"start":10615.61,"end":10617.61,"text":"那我再強調一次"},{"start":10617.61,"end":10619.61,"text":"如果說,我剛剛講的以A案來講"},{"start":10619.61,"end":10621.61,"text":"先審純採購,再審非純採購"},{"start":10621.61,"end":10623.61,"text":"那純採購的"},{"start":10623.61,"end":10625.61,"text":"有九個版本"},{"start":10625.61,"end":10627.61,"text":"賴委員的版本也在這九個版本裡面"},{"start":10627.61,"end":10629.61,"text":"非純採購的有五個版本"},{"start":10629.61,"end":10631.61,"text":"賴委員也有一個版本"},{"start":10631.61,"end":10633.61,"text":"在這五個版本裡面"},{"start":10633.61,"end":10635.61,"text":"如果你要用純,先審純產業發展"},{"start":10635.61,"end":10637.61,"text":"如果要用純,先審純產業發展"},{"start":10637.61,"end":10639.61,"text":"純產發的就兩個版本"},{"start":10639.61,"end":10641.61,"text":"一個是民眾黨的版本,一個是賴事保委員的版本"},{"start":10641.61,"end":10643.61,"text":"非純產業發展的有十二個版本"},{"start":10645.46,"end":10647.46,"text":"那至於如果要不複雜一點"},{"start":10647.46,"end":10649.46,"text":"採取C案,那麼純採購的九案"},{"start":10650.87,"end":10652.87,"text":"純產業發展的兩案"},{"start":10652.87,"end":10654.87,"text":"混合型的三案"},{"start":10654.94,"end":10656.94,"text":"那個,周圍的主席"},{"start":10656.94,"end":10658.94,"text":"我在給你建議"},{"start":10658.94,"end":10660.94,"text":"就是說,你們要有一個方法"},{"start":10660.94,"end":10662.94,"text":"你要用A案、B案、還是C案"},{"start":10662.94,"end":10664.94,"text":"要先審純採購"},{"start":10664.94,"end":10666.94,"text":"再審非純採購"},{"start":10666.94,"end":10668.94,"text":"還是要先審純產業發展,再審非純產業發展"},{"start":10668.94,"end":10670.94,"text":"還是分三類"},{"start":10670.94,"end":10672.94,"text":"純產採購的一類、混合型的一類"},{"start":10672.94,"end":10674.94,"text":"純產業發展的一類"},{"start":10674.94,"end":10676.94,"text":"那不管哪一種方法"},{"start":10676.94,"end":10678.94,"text":"賴委員都保養"},{"start":10678.94,"end":10680.94,"text":"因為不管用哪一種方法,他有兩個版本"},{"start":10680.94,"end":10682.94,"text":"都可以審"},{"start":10682.7,"end":10684.7,"text":"好,再來,請問賴委員"},{"start":10686.11,"end":10688.11,"text":"謝謝周圍"},{"start":10688.11,"end":10690.11,"text":"其實,我們要再次強調"},{"start":10690.11,"end":10692.11,"text":"我們今天"},{"start":10692.11,"end":10694.11,"text":"就是希望"},{"start":10694.39,"end":10696.39,"text":"無人機的整個產業"},{"start":10696.39,"end":10698.39,"text":"可以要進一步"},{"start":10698.39,"end":10700.39,"text":"這是我們大家共同的目標"},{"start":10701.62,"end":10703.62,"text":"尤其我一直強調"},{"start":10703.62,"end":10705.62,"text":"在台南的無人機產業"},{"start":10705.62,"end":10707.62,"text":"陸續發展當中"},{"start":10707.62,"end":10709.62,"text":"他們現在在擔心的"},{"start":10709.62,"end":10711.62,"text":"就是一個法令"},{"start":10711.62,"end":10713.62,"text":"在採購的部分"},{"start":10713.92,"end":10715.92,"text":"所以為什麼我一直強調"},{"start":10715.92,"end":10717.92,"text":"產業發展"},{"start":10717.92,"end":10719.92,"text":"跟採購本來"},{"start":10719.92,"end":10721.92,"text":"就是不一樣的"},{"start":10722.14,"end":10724.14,"text":"所以,希望最快的速度"},{"start":10724.14,"end":10726.14,"text":"不要把這兩個"},{"start":10726.14,"end":10728.14,"text":"好像卡在"},{"start":10728.14,"end":10730.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10730.14,"end":10732.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10732.14,"end":10734.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10734.14,"end":10736.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10736.14,"end":10738.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10738.14,"end":10740.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10740.14,"end":10742.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10742.14,"end":10744.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10744.14,"end":10746.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10746.14,"end":10748.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10748.14,"end":10750.14,"text":"中間"},{"start":10730.35,"end":10732.35,"text":"這個東跟西"},{"start":10732.35,"end":10734.35,"text":"南跟北卡來卡去的一個部分"},{"start":10734.35,"end":10736.35,"text":"造成彼此的影響"},{"start":10736.35,"end":10738.35,"text":"所以,產業發展"},{"start":10738.35,"end":10740.35,"text":"現在就在做了"},{"start":10741.12,"end":10743.12,"text":"因為我們經濟委員會"},{"start":10743.12,"end":10745.12,"text":"我相信我跟易營"},{"start":10745.12,"end":10747.12,"text":"我們在經濟委員會"},{"start":10747.12,"end":10749.12,"text":"省了那麼久的預算"},{"start":10749.12,"end":10751.12,"text":"我們經濟部的無人機產業"},{"start":10751.12,"end":10753.12,"text":"所謂的推動"},{"start":10753.12,"end":10755.12,"text":"我們一直在做"},{"start":10755.12,"end":10757.12,"text":"不是沒有在做"},{"start":10757.12,"end":10759.12,"text":"那你今天在做一個"},{"start":10759.12,"end":10761.12,"text":"單純的產業發展"},{"start":10761.12,"end":10763.12,"text":"是不是就把我們整個"},{"start":10763.12,"end":10765.12,"text":"脈骨往後拉"},{"start":10765.12,"end":10767.12,"text":"這是錯的"},{"start":10767.12,"end":10769.12,"text":"我們應該要進一步"},{"start":10769.12,"end":10771.12,"text":"再加上我們的採購"},{"start":10771.12,"end":10773.12,"text":"特別條例"},{"start":10773.12,"end":10775.12,"text":"為者那麼急"},{"start":10775.12,"end":10777.12,"text":"很重要的"},{"start":10776.69,"end":10778.69,"text":"無人機的採購自主"},{"start":10778.69,"end":10780.69,"text":"有它一定的方向"},{"start":10780.69,"end":10782.69,"text":"所以為什麼國防部"},{"start":10782.69,"end":10784.69,"text":"它利用了那麼長的時間"},{"start":10784.69,"end":10786.69,"text":"做了討論"},{"start":10786.69,"end":10788.69,"text":"收集所有產業"},{"start":10788.69,"end":10790.69,"text":"目前被"},{"start":10790.69,"end":10792.69,"text":"這個擋住"},{"start":10792.69,"end":10794.69,"text":"然後被礙於沒辦法"},{"start":10794.69,"end":10796.69,"text":"通過的一個部分"},{"start":10796.69,"end":10798.69,"text":"所以這是兩個完全不同的"},{"start":10798.69,"end":10800.69,"text":"我們就是希望"},{"start":10800.69,"end":10802.69,"text":"趕快做"},{"start":10802.69,"end":10804.69,"text":"趕快弄,讓我們無人機"},{"start":10804.69,"end":10806.69,"text":"產業更好"},{"start":10806.69,"end":10808.69,"text":"但是"},{"start":10807.47,"end":10809.47,"text":"不是像"},{"start":10809.47,"end":10811.47,"text":"有委員說我們在拉"},{"start":10811.47,"end":10813.47,"text":"拉住進度這是錯的"},{"start":10814.41,"end":10816.41,"text":"好,確定了"},{"start":10816.6,"end":10818.6,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":10818.6,"end":10820.6,"text":"這個我還是回應一下剛剛賴世保委員"},{"start":10820.6,"end":10822.6,"text":"我在發言的時候"},{"start":10822.6,"end":10824.6,"text":"你大概還沒有進來"},{"start":10824.6,"end":10826.6,"text":"所以你一進來就說我們亂罵"},{"start":10826.6,"end":10828.6,"text":"我們沒有否定您的提案"},{"start":10828.6,"end":10830.6,"text":"也沒有亂罵"},{"start":10830.6,"end":10832.6,"text":"我講的是說國防採購跟發展條例"},{"start":10832.6,"end":10834.6,"text":"這是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":10834.6,"end":10836.6,"text":"我談的是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":10836.6,"end":10838.6,"text":"那剛剛賴委員您特別提到說"},{"start":10838.6,"end":10840.6,"text":"你支持的是用"},{"start":10840.6,"end":10842.6,"text":"編列在一般的公務預算裡頭"},{"start":10842.6,"end":10844.6,"text":"你並不支持用特別預算"},{"start":10844.6,"end":10846.6,"text":"去編列"},{"start":10846.6,"end":10848.6,"text":"但是您自己的提案第六條"},{"start":10848.6,"end":10850.6,"text":"你就講了本條例"},{"start":10850.6,"end":10852.6,"text":"所需經費上限500億以特別預算方式編列"},{"start":10854.32,"end":10856.32,"text":"所以是提案的賴世保委員"},{"start":10856.32,"end":10858.32,"text":"打臉"},{"start":10858.32,"end":10860.32,"text":"現在發言的賴世保委員嗎"},{"start":10860.32,"end":10862.32,"text":"您的態度是不是有做"},{"start":10862.32,"end":10864.32,"text":"很大的變動我並不清楚"},{"start":10864.32,"end":10866.32,"text":"但是您的條文的確是"},{"start":10866.32,"end":10868.32,"text":"用特別預算編列"},{"start":10868.32,"end":10870.32,"text":"除非這是AI寫的"},{"start":10870.32,"end":10872.32,"text":"除非這是造謠否則白紙黑字"},{"start":10872.32,"end":10874.32,"text":"都在大家桌面上"},{"start":10874.32,"end":10876.32,"text":"第二我們必須再一次提到"},{"start":10877.89,"end":10881.89,"text":"國民黨支持放在公務預算裡頭去編列"},{"start":10881.89,"end":10883.89,"text":"但是行政院的統籌型計畫"},{"start":10883.89,"end":10885.89,"text":"無人機的預算442億"},{"start":10885.89,"end":10887.89,"text":"你們放話"},{"start":10887.89,"end":10889.89,"text":"要把它刪除"},{"start":10889.89,"end":10891.89,"text":"受到社會大眾的關注之後"},{"start":10891.89,"end":10893.89,"text":"你們現在改採凍結"},{"start":10893.89,"end":10895.89,"text":"但是放在公務預算裡頭"},{"start":10895.89,"end":10897.89,"text":"會有一個非常大的問題是"},{"start":10897.89,"end":10901.89,"text":"今年115年的年度總預算"},{"start":10901.89,"end":10903.89,"text":"到目前為止這一刻"},{"start":10903.89,"end":10905.89,"text":"現在是7月27號"},{"start":10905.89,"end":10907.89,"text":"7月27號"},{"start":10907.89,"end":10909.89,"text":"7月27號"},{"start":10909.89,"end":10911.89,"text":"115年的年度預算並還沒有通過"},{"start":10913.43,"end":10915.43,"text":"所以未來的採購"},{"start":10915.43,"end":10917.43,"text":"放在公務預算裡頭"},{"start":10917.43,"end":10919.43,"text":"其實"},{"start":10919.49,"end":10921.49,"text":"如果照現在這樣國民黨不審總預算"},{"start":10921.49,"end":10923.49,"text":"請問這一些公務預算如何通過"},{"start":10923.49,"end":10925.49,"text":"國防採購無人機的採購預算如何執行"},{"start":10930.53,"end":10932.53,"text":"這個是一個很大的問題"},{"start":10932.53,"end":10934.53,"text":"甚至未來在審查總預算的時候"},{"start":10934.53,"end":10936.53,"text":"這些公務預算"},{"start":10936.53,"end":10938.53,"text":"被你們大刀一砍"},{"start":10938.53,"end":10940.53,"text":"無人機"},{"start":10940.53,"end":10942.53,"text":"載具的預算有可能就這樣子"},{"start":10942.53,"end":10944.53,"text":"莫名其妙就被砍掉了"},{"start":10944.53,"end":10946.53,"text":"不知不覺的就被砍掉了"},{"start":10946.53,"end":10948.53,"text":"放在特別預算裡頭"},{"start":10948.53,"end":10950.53,"text":"只要一砍"},{"start":10950.53,"end":10952.53,"text":"大家都看得出來"},{"start":10952.53,"end":10954.53,"text":"那這是不是也是你們"},{"start":10954.53,"end":10956.53,"text":"這個狸貓換太子的一個手段之一呢"},{"start":10956.53,"end":10958.53,"text":"基本上我們都支持"},{"start":10958.53,"end":10960.53,"text":"國防採購應該要立刻審"},{"start":10960.53,"end":10962.53,"text":"支持無人載具的條例"},{"start":10962.53,"end":10964.53,"text":"要立刻審"},{"start":10964.53,"end":10966.53,"text":"但是要怎麼審"},{"start":10966.53,"end":10968.53,"text":"這是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":10968.53,"end":10970.53,"text":"這也是我們一直在強調"},{"start":10970.53,"end":10972.53,"text":"要兩個不同的概念要怎麼放在一起審"},{"start":10972.53,"end":10974.53,"text":"這是今天要討論的重點"},{"start":10974.65,"end":10976.65,"text":"好 我們發言的時候就是"},{"start":10976.65,"end":10978.65,"text":"賴世保委員、羅化德蘇賓委員、郭國仁委員"},{"start":10978.65,"end":10980.65,"text":"再參議"},{"start":10980.65,"end":10982.65,"text":"啊對不起 遺掉一個"},{"start":10982.25,"end":10984.25,"text":"啊"},{"start":10983.88,"end":10985.88,"text":"賴世保委員"},{"start":10986.92,"end":10988.92,"text":"好你先講好了"},{"start":10988.92,"end":10990.92,"text":"賴世保、羅蘇賓、郭國仁跟蔡英文"},{"start":10990.92,"end":10992.92,"text":"因為你更會交付下來"},{"start":10993.06,"end":10995.06,"text":"我們依著程序在走"},{"start":10996.05,"end":10998.05,"text":"再次強調"},{"start":10997.72,"end":10999.72,"text":"大家都認為無人機是非常重要"},{"start":10999.72,"end":11001.72,"text":"而且無人機是目前"},{"start":11001.72,"end":11003.72,"text":"不對正作戰的核心"},{"start":11004.39,"end":11006.39,"text":"我們跟時間在賽跑"},{"start":11006.39,"end":11008.39,"text":"沒有理由在拖延時間"},{"start":11008.39,"end":11010.39,"text":"我們跟時間在賽跑"},{"start":11010.39,"end":11012.39,"text":"沒有理由在拖延"},{"start":11012.39,"end":11014.39,"text":"今天又會交付下來"},{"start":11014.39,"end":11016.39,"text":"由主席所列出"},{"start":11016.39,"end":11020.39,"text":"我們應該要一條一條的來審"},{"start":11020.39,"end":11022.39,"text":"因為我們看到目前為止"},{"start":11022.39,"end":11024.39,"text":"在政府部門"},{"start":11024.39,"end":11026.39,"text":"也就是這個六年"},{"start":11026.39,"end":11028.39,"text":"442億"},{"start":11028.39,"end":11030.39,"text":"一年等於80億左右"},{"start":11030.39,"end":11032.39,"text":"我們認為絕對是不夠"},{"start":11032.39,"end":11034.39,"text":"所以沒有理由在主導這個條例趕快通過"},{"start":11038.42,"end":11040.42,"text":"我們不要再阻擋"},{"start":11040.42,"end":11042.42,"text":"今天大家都說非常的重要"},{"start":11042.42,"end":11044.42,"text":"所以我建請"},{"start":11044.42,"end":11046.42,"text":"既然剛剛所有的委員發言"},{"start":11046.42,"end":11048.42,"text":"都認為無人機非常的重要"},{"start":11048.42,"end":11050.42,"text":"更是我們護國神山的重要關鍵"},{"start":11050.42,"end":11052.42,"text":"所以請大家"},{"start":11052.42,"end":11054.42,"text":"我們趕快從第一條"},{"start":11054.42,"end":11056.42,"text":"趕快來審"},{"start":11056.42,"end":11058.42,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11058.18,"end":11060.18,"text":"好,285"},{"start":11060.36,"end":11062.36,"text":"謝謝林進長很多委員的指教"},{"start":11063.75,"end":11065.75,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":11065.75,"end":11067.75,"text":"你說怎麼會"},{"start":11067.75,"end":11069.75,"text":"我過去沒有打臉"},{"start":11069.75,"end":11071.75,"text":"因為我的版本就放在上面"},{"start":11071.75,"end":11073.75,"text":"行政院的特別條例"},{"start":11073.75,"end":11075.75,"text":"也放在一起"},{"start":11075.75,"end":11077.75,"text":"行政院的特別條例跟國民黨團"},{"start":11077.75,"end":11079.75,"text":"民眾黨團"},{"start":11079.75,"end":11081.75,"text":"一般條例都放在一起"},{"start":11081.75,"end":11083.75,"text":"每一個委員有的特別預算"},{"start":11083.75,"end":11085.75,"text":"有的一般預算"},{"start":11085.75,"end":11087.75,"text":"產業方面的條例"},{"start":11087.75,"end":11089.75,"text":"我沒有提預算"},{"start":11089.75,"end":11091.75,"text":"但是我就要提一個特別預算"},{"start":11091.75,"end":11093.75,"text":"就放在一起審"},{"start":11093.75,"end":11095.75,"text":"這是問題"},{"start":11095.75,"end":11097.75,"text":"這有什麼說我否定我自己沒有"},{"start":11097.75,"end":11099.75,"text":"但是把條例放在上面"},{"start":11099.75,"end":11101.75,"text":"剛才中間的委員來指教"},{"start":11101.75,"end":11103.75,"text":"感謝指教,放在這裡"},{"start":11103.75,"end":11105.75,"text":"我沒有逃避,我就放在這裡"},{"start":11105.75,"end":11107.75,"text":"我的意思就在這裡"},{"start":11107.75,"end":11111.75,"text":"但是我的跟國防部最大不一樣在哪裡"},{"start":11112.42,"end":11114.42,"text":"國防部就是好不讓當意思賣"},{"start":11115.19,"end":11117.19,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":11117.19,"end":11119.19,"text":"21萬架"},{"start":11119.19,"end":11121.19,"text":"剛接的只有2000架左右"},{"start":11121.01,"end":11123.01,"text":"我的條例是什麼"},{"start":11123.01,"end":11125.01,"text":"我買進來一定要技術申請"},{"start":11125.01,"end":11127.01,"text":"我一定要技術"},{"start":11127.01,"end":11129.01,"text":"Obset裡面最少40%以上"},{"start":11129.01,"end":11131.01,"text":"沒有這個東西我就不買"},{"start":11131.01,"end":11133.01,"text":"我這是有條件的"},{"start":11133.58,"end":11135.58,"text":"我放進來了一起審"},{"start":11135.58,"end":11137.58,"text":"因為院會我原來是說需要分開兩個"},{"start":11137.58,"end":11139.58,"text":"但院會已經交辦"},{"start":11139.58,"end":11141.58,"text":"那就是大家一起審"},{"start":11141.58,"end":11143.58,"text":"各位與其糾結"},{"start":11143.58,"end":11145.58,"text":"再說一定要分開兩個"},{"start":11145.58,"end":11147.58,"text":"你不如趕快一起審"},{"start":11147.58,"end":11149.58,"text":"因為總共行政院的就是七條"},{"start":11149.58,"end":11151.58,"text":"扣掉七條"},{"start":11151.58,"end":11153.58,"text":"扣掉條文的名稱"},{"start":11153.58,"end":11155.58,"text":"主管單位14日期"},{"start":11155.58,"end":11157.58,"text":"只剩四條"},{"start":11158.12,"end":11160.12,"text":"行政院分明只有四條"},{"start":11160.12,"end":11162.12,"text":"我們的加加減減"},{"start":11162.12,"end":11164.12,"text":"有共識就給他過"},{"start":11164.12,"end":11166.12,"text":"沒有共識就保留學生"},{"start":11166.12,"end":11168.12,"text":"這樣才能夠往前走"},{"start":11168.12,"end":11170.12,"text":"至於說你一定要放在特別"},{"start":11170.12,"end":11172.12,"text":"放在什麼的"},{"start":11172.12,"end":11174.12,"text":"最後再來處理"},{"start":11174.12,"end":11176.12,"text":"院會再來處理"},{"start":11176.12,"end":11178.12,"text":"今天來講的話我們就很清楚了"},{"start":11177.25,"end":11179.25,"text":"我的PM就是兩個一個是"},{"start":11179.72,"end":11181.72,"text":"我一個是沒有預算的就只有一個法案"},{"start":11181.72,"end":11183.72,"text":"另外一個是500億"},{"start":11183.72,"end":11185.72,"text":"是一定要技術"},{"start":11185.72,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1.83,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":11391.83,"end":11393.83,"text":"剛剛您聽那個"},{"start":11393.83,"end":11395.83,"text":"操演時間對話 親筆上有一種"},{"start":11395.83,"end":11397.83,"text":"雞同鴨講的那種感覺"},{"start":11397.83,"end":11399.83,"text":"不過在過程當中"},{"start":11399.83,"end":11401.83,"text":"還有一定的共識"},{"start":11401.83,"end":11403.83,"text":"共識的部分就是本黨"},{"start":11403.83,"end":11405.83,"text":"希望用特別預算的方式跟賴斯堡"},{"start":11405.83,"end":11407.83,"text":"委員是一致的"},{"start":11407.83,"end":11409.83,"text":"如果是這樣子是不是從有共識"},{"start":11409.83,"end":11411.83,"text":"面的部分來做切入"},{"start":11411.83,"end":11413.83,"text":"剛剛楊瓊瑩委員說提到說"},{"start":11413.83,"end":11415.83,"text":"在產業發展在經濟部"},{"start":11415.83,"end":11417.83,"text":"的部分440而已好像太少"},{"start":11417.83,"end":11419.83,"text":"其實如果再加上國務部的"},{"start":11419.83,"end":11421.83,"text":"版本2100億加起來好像"},{"start":11421.83,"end":11423.83,"text":"也不會太少 更何況"},{"start":11423.83,"end":11425.83,"text":"不論從供給面也好從需求面也好"},{"start":11425.83,"end":11427.83,"text":"它有不同的面向可以形成"},{"start":11427.83,"end":11429.83,"text":"一個共同目標 但切入點會"},{"start":11429.83,"end":11431.83,"text":"有不同 因為國務部的版本"},{"start":11431.83,"end":11433.83,"text":"其實是從作戰需求的部分"},{"start":11433.83,"end":11435.83,"text":"也就是從需求面"},{"start":11435.83,"end":11437.83,"text":"來營造供給面"},{"start":11437.83,"end":11439.83,"text":"達到採購的裝備跟形成"},{"start":11439.83,"end":11441.83,"text":"戰力的可能"},{"start":11441.83,"end":11443.83,"text":"而經濟部的部分比較像是一個協助"},{"start":11443.83,"end":11445.83,"text":"供應鏈跟技術與產能"},{"start":11445.83,"end":11447.83,"text":"的部分 這樣的部分其實"},{"start":11447.83,"end":11449.83,"text":"不應該錯置也不應該"},{"start":11449.83,"end":11451.83,"text":"混為一談 但國民黨跟民眾黨"},{"start":11451.83,"end":11453.83,"text":"版本當中又含測試"},{"start":11453.83,"end":11455.83,"text":"產業聚落出口市場還有一般的"},{"start":11455.83,"end":11457.83,"text":"公共採購老實講"},{"start":11457.83,"end":11459.83,"text":"老實說會把建軍的需求"},{"start":11459.83,"end":11461.83,"text":"跟產業的扶植混在一起"},{"start":11461.83,"end":11463.83,"text":"然後我們讓產業發展就交給經濟部"},{"start":11463.83,"end":11465.83,"text":"來處理 因為已經有無人載具"},{"start":11465.83,"end":11467.83,"text":"產業發展計畫了 所以"},{"start":11467.83,"end":11469.83,"text":"這樣的情況底下讓經濟部去"},{"start":11469.83,"end":11471.83,"text":"發展產業需求讓國防部"},{"start":11471.83,"end":11473.83,"text":"來完成建軍的需要"},{"start":11475.74,"end":11477.74,"text":"好 接下來請蔡議員"},{"start":11479.27,"end":11481.27,"text":"我負荷郭國恩委員講的"},{"start":11481.27,"end":11483.27,"text":"那如果朝野"},{"start":11483.27,"end":11485.27,"text":"的我們現在"},{"start":11485.27,"end":11487.27,"text":"大家的共識是在於"},{"start":11487.27,"end":11489.27,"text":"特別預算可以優先處理的話"},{"start":11489.27,"end":11491.27,"text":"那我們可以立即處理"},{"start":11491.27,"end":11493.27,"text":"那基本上我還是要講"},{"start":11493.27,"end":11495.27,"text":"像國民黨版本所提出來"},{"start":11495.27,"end":11497.27,"text":"用年度預算每年編列"},{"start":11497.27,"end":11499.27,"text":"400億這樣的一個架構"},{"start":11499.27,"end":11501.27,"text":"它永遠會卡在"},{"start":11501.27,"end":11503.27,"text":"總預算到底什麼時候通過"},{"start":11503.27,"end":11505.27,"text":"那比方說我們在上禮拜一"},{"start":11505.27,"end":11507.27,"text":"的時候 我們經濟委員會"},{"start":11507.27,"end":11509.27,"text":"有到這個我們嘉義"},{"start":11509.27,"end":11511.27,"text":"這個亞創"},{"start":11511.27,"end":11513.27,"text":"去做限定的"},{"start":11513.27,"end":11515.27,"text":"一個匯寬 那這個亞創"},{"start":11515.27,"end":11517.27,"text":"目前它需要"},{"start":11517.27,"end":11519.27,"text":"包括說它裡面的一些設備"},{"start":11519.27,"end":11521.27,"text":"未來如果做無人機的"},{"start":11521.27,"end":11523.27,"text":"測試的一個場域的話"},{"start":11523.27,"end":11525.27,"text":"它是需要投入相關的設備"},{"start":11525.27,"end":11527.27,"text":"所以它需要的預算差不多"},{"start":11527.27,"end":11529.27,"text":"11億多"},{"start":11529.27,"end":11531.27,"text":"那這個預算行政院"},{"start":11531.27,"end":11533.27,"text":"都已經同意就卡在"},{"start":11533.27,"end":11535.27,"text":"總預算還沒有通過"},{"start":11535.27,"end":11537.27,"text":"那所以這樣一拖你看"},{"start":11537.27,"end":11539.27,"text":"今年度已經拖了"},{"start":11539.29,"end":11541.29,"text":"7個多月了"},{"start":11541.29,"end":11543.29,"text":"事實上這樣的一個延宕都是"},{"start":11543.29,"end":11545.29,"text":"時間的浪費 所以我們對於說"},{"start":11545.29,"end":11547.29,"text":"你們用年度"},{"start":11547.29,"end":11549.29,"text":"預算來編列 那年度預算"},{"start":11549.29,"end":11551.29,"text":"沒有辦法通過也許不是因為無人機"},{"start":11551.29,"end":11553.29,"text":"是其他的因素"},{"start":11553.29,"end":11555.29,"text":"總是它會去卡住"},{"start":11555.29,"end":11557.29,"text":"一旦卡住的話就會造成這個"},{"start":11557.29,"end":11559.29,"text":"產業它所需要的"},{"start":11559.29,"end":11561.29,"text":"一些預算的支持就會不見"},{"start":11561.29,"end":11563.29,"text":"就是這麼簡單 所以我們還是認為說"},{"start":11563.29,"end":11565.29,"text":"大家如果支持"},{"start":11565.29,"end":11567.29,"text":"無人機產業的話"},{"start":11567.29,"end":11569.29,"text":"就用特別預算 而且既然"},{"start":11569.29,"end":11571.29,"text":"剛剛這樣一輪的發言"},{"start":11571.29,"end":11573.29,"text":"特別預算既然有預算"},{"start":11573.29,"end":11575.29,"text":"已經有共識的話 那我們就"},{"start":11575.29,"end":11577.29,"text":"從這裡來開始審議吧"},{"start":11579.42,"end":11581.42,"text":"好 我們從第一條就開始好不好"},{"start":11581.42,"end":11583.42,"text":"因為我告訴你我都看完了"},{"start":11583.42,"end":11585.42,"text":"名稱就是名稱"},{"start":11585.42,"end":11587.42,"text":"名稱"},{"start":11588.5,"end":11590.5,"text":"名稱的話"},{"start":11593.14,"end":11595.14,"text":"嗯 我就保留啊"},{"start":11598.24,"end":11600.24,"text":"不是 因為對我們本黨"},{"start":11600.24,"end":11602.24,"text":"對我們本黨來講的話"},{"start":11602.24,"end":11604.24,"text":"就是一樣啊 我就是"},{"start":11604.24,"end":11606.24,"text":"支持年度預算"},{"start":11606.24,"end":11608.24,"text":"你這樣的主持 這樣的審查"},{"start":11608.24,"end":11610.24,"text":"叫做過水"},{"start":11610.01,"end":11612.01,"text":"名稱就有三種 我剛剛就講了"},{"start":11612.01,"end":11614.01,"text":"是三個不同的概念"},{"start":11614.01,"end":11616.01,"text":"那大家要不要討論 你都還沒"},{"start":11616.01,"end":11618.01,"text":"討論你馬上就講說那三種不同"},{"start":11618.01,"end":11620.01,"text":"那就保留 那你就是在過水嘛 你很明顯"},{"start":11620.01,"end":11622.01,"text":"就是在過水嘛"},{"start":11622.92,"end":11624.92,"text":"不是 我們說第一條"},{"start":11624.92,"end":11626.92,"text":"我覺得這樣子講"},{"start":11626.92,"end":11628.92,"text":"我覺得這樣子對主席不公平啊"},{"start":11628.92,"end":11630.92,"text":"我覺得這樣子對主席不公平啊"},{"start":11630.92,"end":11632.92,"text":"剛剛我們審查的時候"},{"start":11632.92,"end":11634.92,"text":"已經大家發言"},{"start":11634.92,"end":11636.92,"text":"這麼多次 然後主席"},{"start":11636.92,"end":11638.92,"text":"有說了大家各自的"},{"start":11638.92,"end":11640.92,"text":"版本 主席也表示他"},{"start":11640.92,"end":11642.92,"text":"民眾黨的名稱希望"},{"start":11642.92,"end":11644.92,"text":"是什麼 剛剛我也提出國民黨"},{"start":11644.92,"end":11646.92,"text":"的名稱是什麼 我支持國民黨"},{"start":11646.92,"end":11648.92,"text":"這就是這樣子啊 所以"},{"start":11648.92,"end":11650.92,"text":"大家充分討論已經超過了"},{"start":11650.92,"end":11652.92,"text":"快一個鐘頭"},{"start":11652.92,"end":11654.92,"text":"應該要針對於我們的"},{"start":11654.92,"end":11656.92,"text":"進度第一條 到底要怎麼處理啊"},{"start":11658.39,"end":11660.39,"text":"主席我支持用賴氏八五員的"},{"start":11660.39,"end":11662.39,"text":"特別預算的方式 有特別預算的"},{"start":11662.39,"end":11664.39,"text":"都先審啦 好不好"},{"start":11664.39,"end":11666.39,"text":"賴氏八五有一個無人載具產業"},{"start":11666.39,"end":11668.39,"text":"升級發展 他兩個都可以"},{"start":11668.39,"end":11670.39,"text":"先審他有特別預算的 那就是保留"},{"start":11671.81,"end":11673.81,"text":"因為你已經都討論了 我就說"},{"start":11673.81,"end":11675.81,"text":"今天我們也不想"},{"start":11675.81,"end":11677.81,"text":"大家充分共事"},{"start":11677.81,"end":11679.81,"text":"你們要支持我這個案子 你們要支持五百億喔"},{"start":11679.81,"end":11681.81,"text":"我就從兩千一百億砍成五百億喔"},{"start":11681.81,"end":11683.81,"text":"我是支持用特別預算的"},{"start":11683.81,"end":11685.81,"text":"賴氏八五員的"},{"start":11685.81,"end":11687.81,"text":"我支持賴氏八五員用特別預算"},{"start":11687.81,"end":11689.81,"text":"他是說方式"},{"start":11689.81,"end":11691.81,"text":"不是支持你的版本"},{"start":11691.81,"end":11693.81,"text":"那我們現在是要談"},{"start":11693.81,"end":11695.81,"text":"法案名稱嘛"},{"start":11695.81,"end":11697.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11697.81,"end":11699.81,"text":"不要再講到其他"},{"start":11699.81,"end":11701.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11701.81,"end":11703.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11703.81,"end":11705.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11705.81,"end":11707.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11707.81,"end":11709.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11709.81,"end":11711.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11711.81,"end":11713.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11713.81,"end":11715.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11715.81,"end":11717.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11717.81,"end":11719.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11719.81,"end":11721.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11721.81,"end":11723.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11723.81,"end":11725.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11725.81,"end":11727.81,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11706.12,"end":11708.12,"text":"我們現在是第一條啦"},{"start":11708.12,"end":11710.12,"text":"賴氏八五員的提案嘛"},{"start":11710.12,"end":11712.12,"text":"所以我們找說有沒有公約數嘛"},{"start":11712.12,"end":11714.12,"text":"那如果公約數的話就是"},{"start":11715.33,"end":11717.33,"text":"國防採購技術合作特別調查"},{"start":11717.33,"end":11719.33,"text":"國防採購技術合作特別調查"},{"start":11719.33,"end":11721.33,"text":"這個名稱很好啊"},{"start":11720.8,"end":11722.8,"text":"這個名稱很好啊"},{"start":11722.8,"end":11724.8,"text":"我們支持賴氏八五員的這個"},{"start":11724.8,"end":11726.8,"text":"國外採購技術合作特別調查"},{"start":11729.37,"end":11731.37,"text":"主席啊 這個到了最後"},{"start":11731.37,"end":11733.37,"text":"每一個委員都有提案的權利"},{"start":11733.37,"end":11735.37,"text":"每一個黨團也都有提案的權利"},{"start":11735.37,"end":11737.37,"text":"剛進到委員會的目標"},{"start":11737.37,"end":11739.37,"text":"目標不就是要整合出一個版本嘛"},{"start":11739.37,"end":11741.37,"text":"到最後你只能刪除一個版本嘛"},{"start":11741.37,"end":11743.37,"text":"這是大家都同意的事嘛"},{"start":11743.37,"end":11745.37,"text":"那今天大家支持不一樣的版本"},{"start":11745.37,"end":11747.37,"text":"但本席就是堅持國民黨黨團的版本啦"},{"start":11747.37,"end":11749.37,"text":"那今天大家各執一池堅持己見的時候"},{"start":11749.37,"end":11751.37,"text":"不就是保留嗎"},{"start":11751.37,"end":11753.37,"text":"這就是委員會的慣例啊"},{"start":11753.37,"end":11755.37,"text":"不就是這樣嗎"},{"start":11753.15,"end":11755.15,"text":"所以我講今天本席的態度就是"},{"start":11755.15,"end":11757.15,"text":"我就是堅持國民黨黨團的提案"},{"start":11757.15,"end":11759.15,"text":"堅持民眾黨的版本啊"},{"start":11759.15,"end":11761.15,"text":"是啊 那就這樣了嘛"},{"start":11760.39,"end":11762.39,"text":"那要嘛我們可以在這邊一直講"},{"start":11762.39,"end":11764.39,"text":"這樣子對於快速通過有沒有幫助嘛"},{"start":11764.39,"end":11766.39,"text":"沒有就沒有嘛"},{"start":11766.39,"end":11768.39,"text":"法案明天已經一個鐘頭了"},{"start":11768.39,"end":11770.39,"text":"我們更時間賽跑"},{"start":11770.39,"end":11772.39,"text":"請主席做決定"},{"start":11771.78,"end":11773.78,"text":"做裁決"},{"start":11778.46,"end":11782.46,"text":"法案條名稱所有版本提案均保留"},{"start":11787.57,"end":11789.57,"text":"好我們接下來進行第一條"},{"start":11791.1,"end":11793.1,"text":"進進步"},{"start":11793.06,"end":11795.06,"text":"說明"},{"start":11803.69,"end":11805.69,"text":"好那跟委員會報告"},{"start":11805.69,"end":11809.69,"text":"那我們這邊還是建立行政院版本的第一條"},{"start":11809.69,"end":11811.69,"text":"那我們的理由是"},{"start":11811.69,"end":11813.69,"text":"因為"},{"start":11813.54,"end":11815.54,"text":"委員"},{"start":11815.54,"end":11817.54,"text":"裡面的這個版本涉及到"},{"start":11817.54,"end":11819.54,"text":"就是說產業發展的部分"},{"start":11819.54,"end":11821.54,"text":"我們已經有在產創條例"},{"start":11821.54,"end":11823.54,"text":"還有行政院的無人載具"},{"start":11823.54,"end":11825.54,"text":"產業發展統修行計畫"},{"start":11825.54,"end":11827.54,"text":"都已經有納入相關的"},{"start":11827.54,"end":11829.54,"text":"研發補助租稅優惠"},{"start":11829.54,"end":11831.54,"text":"人才培育跟資金協助"},{"start":11831.54,"end":11833.54,"text":"的一些措施"},{"start":11833.54,"end":11835.54,"text":"那另外國防法裡面也有"},{"start":11836.32,"end":11838.32,"text":"這個針對工業合作"},{"start":11838.32,"end":11840.32,"text":"也有做一些規範"},{"start":11840.32,"end":11842.32,"text":"所以我們還是建立就是說"},{"start":11842.32,"end":11844.32,"text":"是不是可以聚焦在無人機的這個"},{"start":11844.32,"end":11846.32,"text":"國防採購上面"},{"start":11846.32,"end":11848.32,"text":"以上"},{"start":11848.64,"end":11850.64,"text":"好"},{"start":11849.52,"end":11851.52,"text":"請各位請問各位有沒有意見"},{"start":11852.44,"end":11854.44,"text":"從這邊委員"},{"start":11854.65,"end":11858.65,"text":"其實剛剛因為幾位委員的表達"},{"start":11858.65,"end":11860.65,"text":"沒有錯我們要尋求共識"},{"start":11860.65,"end":11862.65,"text":"那因為呢尋求共識的方式"},{"start":11862.65,"end":11864.65,"text":"就自己要先讓步"},{"start":11864.65,"end":11866.65,"text":"如果大家各自堅持不讓步就絕對不會有共識"},{"start":11866.65,"end":11868.65,"text":"所以雖然我有一個版本"},{"start":11868.65,"end":11870.65,"text":"行政院有版本"},{"start":11870.65,"end":11872.65,"text":"那本黨團有很多人提出版本"},{"start":11872.65,"end":11874.65,"text":"但是我願意率先做一個示範"},{"start":11874.65,"end":11876.65,"text":"為了尋求共識先讓步"},{"start":11876.65,"end":11878.65,"text":"我覺得賴斯巴爾委員"},{"start":11878.65,"end":11880.65,"text":"國防戰略無人載具"},{"start":11880.65,"end":11882.65,"text":"國外採購及技術合作特別條例"},{"start":11882.65,"end":11884.65,"text":"的第一條"},{"start":11884.65,"end":11886.65,"text":"面對國防安全情勢日益嚴峻"},{"start":11886.65,"end":11888.65,"text":"等等等"},{"start":11888.65,"end":11890.65,"text":"要強化我國的情報監視偵查及精準打擊"},{"start":11890.65,"end":11892.65,"text":"等等等多重嚇阻能力"},{"start":11892.65,"end":11894.65,"text":"並結合美國及其他國家"},{"start":11894.65,"end":11896.65,"text":"先進戰略無人載具"},{"start":11896.65,"end":11898.65,"text":"服務以技術移轉及工業合作"},{"start":11898.65,"end":11900.65,"text":"提升我國無人載具產業自治組"},{"start":11900.65,"end":11902.65,"text":"研發產製及維修能量"},{"start":11902.65,"end":11904.65,"text":"確保國家安全與國防自治組"},{"start":11904.65,"end":11906.65,"text":"特制定本條例"},{"start":11906.65,"end":11908.65,"text":"我支持"},{"start":11910.19,"end":11912.19,"text":"楊瓊瑩委員"},{"start":11912.43,"end":11914.43,"text":"其實我們看到行政院的版本第一條"},{"start":11914.43,"end":11916.43,"text":"跟我們國民黨的提案"},{"start":11916.43,"end":11918.43,"text":"為意新世代"},{"start":11918.43,"end":11920.43,"text":"科技戰爭形態"},{"start":11920.43,"end":11922.43,"text":"強化台灣國防之不對稱的戰力"},{"start":11922.43,"end":11924.43,"text":"推動軍民通用科技雙向轉移"},{"start":11924.43,"end":11928.43,"text":"引導民間卓越的這個資通訊與精密機械產能"},{"start":11928.43,"end":11930.43,"text":"投入國防產業"},{"start":11930.43,"end":11934.43,"text":"落實國防自主與產業升級之雙重效益"},{"start":11934.43,"end":11936.43,"text":"雙重效益"},{"start":11936.43,"end":11938.43,"text":"並建立符合民主供應鏈標準"},{"start":11938.43,"end":11940.43,"text":"排除了高風險供應鏈"},{"start":11945.93,"end":11947.93,"text":"特制定本條例"},{"start":11947.93,"end":11949.93,"text":"所以這個條例的文字"},{"start":11949.93,"end":11951.93,"text":"我想比行政院的版本"},{"start":11951.93,"end":11953.93,"text":"更加的這個"},{"start":11953.93,"end":11955.93,"text":"這個周延"},{"start":11955.93,"end":11957.93,"text":"所以我們敬請支持國民黨"},{"start":11957.93,"end":11959.93,"text":"第一條的一個文字"},{"start":11959.93,"end":11961.93,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11962.01,"end":11964.01,"text":"謝謝瑩委員"},{"start":11967.8,"end":11969.8,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":11969.8,"end":11971.8,"text":"基本上我附議一下中嘉濱委員"},{"start":11971.8,"end":11973.8,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":11973.8,"end":11975.8,"text":"真的賴世保委員的這個國防戰略無人載具"},{"start":11975.8,"end":11977.8,"text":"國外採購及"},{"start":11977.8,"end":11979.8,"text":"技術合作特別條例裡頭的"},{"start":11979.8,"end":11981.8,"text":"第一條的文字"},{"start":11981.8,"end":11983.8,"text":"我認為更加的完整"},{"start":11983.8,"end":11985.8,"text":"跟"},{"start":11985.8,"end":11987.8,"text":"能夠"},{"start":11987.79,"end":11991.79,"text":"更加精準的表達其實我們在國防戰略上面的思維"},{"start":11991.79,"end":11993.79,"text":"那我附議中嘉濱委員"},{"start":11993.79,"end":11995.79,"text":"我也希望能夠支持"},{"start":11995.79,"end":11997.79,"text":"楊全英委員可能也忘記了"},{"start":11997.79,"end":11999.79,"text":"你也是這個提案的共同提案人"},{"start":11999.79,"end":12001.79,"text":"所以你現在反而不支持這個提案"},{"start":12001.79,"end":12003.79,"text":"我也覺得怪怪的"},{"start":12005.82,"end":12007.82,"text":"今天我們是在跟時間賽跑"},{"start":12007.82,"end":12009.82,"text":"我們要怎麼樣研議"},{"start":12009.82,"end":12011.82,"text":"能夠更周延"},{"start":12011.82,"end":12013.82,"text":"所以我請各位同仁"},{"start":12013.82,"end":12015.82,"text":"我們經濟委員會"},{"start":12015.82,"end":12017.82,"text":"不管國防委員會或者是這個"},{"start":12017.82,"end":12019.82,"text":"都"},{"start":12019.82,"end":12021.82,"text":"大家都是非常的希望無人機"},{"start":12021.82,"end":12023.82,"text":"能夠趕快去通過"},{"start":12023.82,"end":12025.82,"text":"所以我覺得再多的政治化"},{"start":12025.82,"end":12027.82,"text":"對於無人機的產業"},{"start":12027.82,"end":12029.82,"text":"或者是國防自主都沒有幫助"},{"start":12031.82,"end":12033.82,"text":"好 賴慧媛委員"},{"start":12033.82,"end":12035.82,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":12035.82,"end":12037.82,"text":"我想我附議中嘉濱跟"},{"start":12037.82,"end":12039.82,"text":"邱毅穎委員的一個提案"},{"start":12039.82,"end":12041.82,"text":"那當然我也支持賴世保"},{"start":12041.82,"end":12043.82,"text":"委員在這個"},{"start":12043.82,"end":12045.82,"text":"就是在"},{"start":12045.82,"end":12047.82,"text":"第一條法案的一個提案"},{"start":12047.82,"end":12049.82,"text":"那以上是表達"},{"start":12049.82,"end":12051.82,"text":"本席的意見"},{"start":12052,"end":12054,"text":"賴世保完再呈答題"},{"start":12054,"end":12056,"text":"我們謝謝大家的支持"},{"start":12056,"end":12058,"text":"大家如果可以支持"},{"start":12058,"end":12060,"text":"用我的版本第一條"},{"start":12060,"end":12062,"text":"我當然很高興的接受"},{"start":12062,"end":12064,"text":"那就第一條按照我的版本"},{"start":12064.54,"end":12066.54,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12066.42,"end":12068.42,"text":"謝謝主席我們特別講爆"},{"start":12068.42,"end":12070.42,"text":"就是說關於這一次的"},{"start":12071.43,"end":12073.43,"text":"這個條裡面還有一個很重要的因素"},{"start":12073.43,"end":12075.43,"text":"就是要跟美國及其他國家合作"},{"start":12075.43,"end":12077.43,"text":"這個"},{"start":12077,"end":12079,"text":"工業合作的部分"},{"start":12079,"end":12081,"text":"所以說我對這個"},{"start":12081,"end":12083,"text":"中委員的說法我是認同的"},{"start":12084.12,"end":12086.12,"text":"好 王安祥委員"},{"start":12086.12,"end":12088.12,"text":"好 我說明一下"},{"start":12088.12,"end":12090.12,"text":"比如說黨團的版本"},{"start":12090.12,"end":12092.12,"text":"那因為我們這個版本基本上"},{"start":12092.12,"end":12094.12,"text":"兼顧了這個國防自主"},{"start":12094.12,"end":12096.12,"text":"然後同時我們也在這個"},{"start":12096.12,"end":12098.12,"text":"我們的條例裡面有講到就是"},{"start":12098.12,"end":12100.12,"text":"我們協助這個大家都非常"},{"start":12100.12,"end":12102.12,"text":"重視台灣本地無人機產業的"},{"start":12102.12,"end":12104.12,"text":"發展的升級"},{"start":12104.12,"end":12106.12,"text":"那因為現在這個"},{"start":12106.12,"end":12108.12,"text":"這一次的無人機的採購"},{"start":12108.12,"end":12110.12,"text":"有別於過去我們傳統上"},{"start":12110.12,"end":12112.12,"text":"的那個FMX的採購"},{"start":12112.12,"end":12114.12,"text":"那無人機裡面又發行軍規"},{"start":12114.12,"end":12116.12,"text":"跟這個山規的軍用的部分"},{"start":12116.12,"end":12118.12,"text":"所以我們希望"},{"start":12118.12,"end":12120.12,"text":"這個再考慮到我剛說的"},{"start":12120.12,"end":12122.12,"text":"這些版本裡面我們應該在"},{"start":12122.12,"end":12124.12,"text":"我們第一條裡面是比較全面有涵蓋到"},{"start":12124.12,"end":12126.12,"text":"以上"},{"start":12125.71,"end":12127.71,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12129.49,"end":12131.49,"text":"好 還沒"},{"start":12133.86,"end":12135.86,"text":"目前看起來就是國民黨團"},{"start":12135.86,"end":12137.86,"text":"就是有"},{"start":12137.86,"end":12139.86,"text":"版本 然後在民眾黨團"},{"start":12139.86,"end":12141.86,"text":"的版本的重點"},{"start":12141.86,"end":12143.86,"text":"就在"},{"start":12142.91,"end":12144.91,"text":"其實就是軍民的通用技術"},{"start":12144.91,"end":12146.91,"text":"這個跟國民黨一樣"},{"start":12146.91,"end":12148.91,"text":"然後國防自主"},{"start":12148.91,"end":12150.91,"text":"另外我們再加一個"},{"start":12150.91,"end":12152.91,"text":"所謂的非"},{"start":12152.91,"end":12154.91,"text":"民主供應鏈 或者是像"},{"start":12154.91,"end":12156.91,"text":"行政院講的非宏供應鏈"},{"start":12156.91,"end":12158.91,"text":"然後另外就是"},{"start":12158.91,"end":12160.91,"text":"進入這個國際"},{"start":12160.91,"end":12162.91,"text":"因為是產業發展嘛 我們要做一個"},{"start":12162.91,"end":12164.91,"text":"輸出"},{"start":12164.91,"end":12166.91,"text":"那賴世保委員的話"},{"start":12166.91,"end":12168.91,"text":"應該就是講了結合"},{"start":12168.91,"end":12170.91,"text":"美國其他先進戰略的技術"},{"start":12170.91,"end":12172.91,"text":"各自有各自的支持者"},{"start":12175.71,"end":12177.71,"text":"所以是不是請國防部"},{"start":12177.71,"end":12179.71,"text":"可以表示一下意見 因為我們這樣"},{"start":12179.71,"end":12181.71,"text":"執政黨支持賴世保委員的版本"},{"start":12181.71,"end":12183.71,"text":"我很擔心我們顧部長回去行政院"},{"start":12183.71,"end":12185.71,"text":"他交代不過去 他要表達一下"},{"start":12192.62,"end":12194.62,"text":"美國隊長"},{"start":12197.25,"end":12199.25,"text":"主席 各位委員"},{"start":12199.25,"end":12201.25,"text":"第一點就是說 就法案的名稱"},{"start":12201.25,"end":12203.25,"text":"我還是說明一下 因為他"},{"start":12203.25,"end":12205.25,"text":"主要三個要素 第一個是"},{"start":12205.25,"end":12207.25,"text":"法案名稱討論過了 就第一條"},{"start":12207.25,"end":12209.25,"text":"我只是因為後續要面對第一條"},{"start":12209.25,"end":12211.25,"text":"因為他重點是在"},{"start":12211.25,"end":12213.25,"text":"國防自主這第一個 第二個呢"},{"start":12213.25,"end":12215.25,"text":"採購 那採購的標"},{"start":12215.25,"end":12217.25,"text":"要有相關的標的 所以我們"},{"start":12217.25,"end":12219.25,"text":"在後面的第四條"},{"start":12219.25,"end":12221.25,"text":"應該有"},{"start":12221.25,"end":12223.25,"text":"我現在在第一條"},{"start":12223.25,"end":12225.25,"text":"相關的標的有做一個說明 然後另外"},{"start":12225.25,"end":12227.25,"text":"我們用特別條例 所以有特別預算"},{"start":12227.25,"end":12229.25,"text":"那我現在說明一下"},{"start":12229.25,"end":12231.25,"text":"第一條的這個"},{"start":12231.57,"end":12235.57,"text":"會延續後面我們要採購的相關的標的"},{"start":12235.57,"end":12237.57,"text":"那這個延續相關的標的"},{"start":12237.57,"end":12239.57,"text":"的部分就是我們著重於"},{"start":12239.57,"end":12241.57,"text":"這個濱海健身型的無人機"},{"start":12241.57,"end":12243.57,"text":"濱海攻擊型的無人機"},{"start":12243.57,"end":12245.57,"text":"以及這個無人艇"},{"start":12245.57,"end":12247.57,"text":"但國民黨的相關"},{"start":12247.57,"end":12249.57,"text":"後面的提案的相關的"},{"start":12249.57,"end":12251.57,"text":"版本 他是將所有的無人載具"},{"start":12251.57,"end":12253.57,"text":"都放進去 那相關的"},{"start":12253.57,"end":12255.57,"text":"無人載具都放進去 因為無人載具"},{"start":12255.57,"end":12257.57,"text":"的範圍非常的廣"},{"start":12257.57,"end":12259.57,"text":"不只是這一個"},{"start":12259.57,"end":12261.57,"text":"我們現行的這個"},{"start":12261.71,"end":12263.71,"text":"濱海健身型的跟濱海攻擊型"},{"start":12263.71,"end":12265.71,"text":"還有無人艇 那裡面"},{"start":12265.71,"end":12267.71,"text":"還會涉及到地面的"},{"start":12267.71,"end":12269.71,"text":"還有水下的"},{"start":12269.71,"end":12271.71,"text":"還有各式可能發展的這個相關的"},{"start":12271.71,"end":12273.71,"text":"這些項目"},{"start":12273.71,"end":12275.71,"text":"所以我個人認為"},{"start":12275.71,"end":12277.71,"text":"如果大家"},{"start":12277.71,"end":12279.71,"text":"把將所有"},{"start":12279.71,"end":12281.71,"text":"我們要採購的特定的這個"},{"start":12281.71,"end":12283.71,"text":"項目跟未來"},{"start":12283.71,"end":12285.71,"text":"可能在發展出來的"},{"start":12285.71,"end":12287.71,"text":"各種"},{"start":12286.97,"end":12288.97,"text":"不同的這些無人載具項目"},{"start":12288.97,"end":12290.97,"text":"甚至將國內自主"},{"start":12290.97,"end":12292.97,"text":"跟國外採購的部分"},{"start":12292.97,"end":12294.97,"text":"全部都混在一起來談"},{"start":12294.97,"end":12296.97,"text":"這件事情的話"},{"start":12296.97,"end":12298.97,"text":"幾乎是完全沒有一個明確的標的"},{"start":12298.97,"end":12300.97,"text":"在沒有明確的標的"},{"start":12300.97,"end":12302.97,"text":"的情況之下 這個"},{"start":12302.97,"end":12304.97,"text":"法案就會變得"},{"start":12305.79,"end":12307.79,"text":"就國防部的立場 我們"},{"start":12307.79,"end":12309.79,"text":"沒有辦法來確認"},{"start":12309.79,"end":12311.79,"text":"到底"},{"start":12311.83,"end":12313.83,"text":"應該通過這個條文"},{"start":12313.83,"end":12315.83,"text":"對我們的作戰需求"},{"start":12315.83,"end":12317.83,"text":"以及未來我們可能的發展"},{"start":12317.83,"end":12319.83,"text":"它到底"},{"start":12320.37,"end":12322.37,"text":"意義何在"},{"start":12322.37,"end":12324.37,"text":"那如果說是著重於說"},{"start":12324.37,"end":12326.37,"text":"可能各種的產業"},{"start":12326.37,"end":12328.37,"text":"發展的話"},{"start":12328.37,"end":12330.37,"text":"各種的產業發展的部分"},{"start":12330.37,"end":12332.37,"text":"我想這個就屬於"},{"start":12332.37,"end":12334.37,"text":"經濟部應該要做的關"},{"start":12334.37,"end":12336.37,"text":"那我也一直在強調 我們"},{"start":12336.37,"end":12338.37,"text":"國防部及國防自主"},{"start":12338.37,"end":12340.37,"text":"我們採購了特定的"},{"start":12340.37,"end":12342.37,"text":"項目 我們就希望陷在這個"},{"start":12342.37,"end":12344.37,"text":"項目裡面 那剛剛有委員"},{"start":12344.37,"end":12346.37,"text":"提到這個賴斯堡委員的"},{"start":12346.37,"end":12348.37,"text":"第一條的這個部分"},{"start":12348.37,"end":12350.37,"text":"我想賴斯堡委員"},{"start":12350.37,"end":12352.37,"text":"的第一條 他結合後面"},{"start":12352.37,"end":12354.37,"text":"的條文 他著重的都是"},{"start":12354.37,"end":12356.37,"text":"在於其他的這些各種"},{"start":12356.37,"end":12358.37,"text":"可能比較"},{"start":12358.37,"end":12360.37,"text":"我們來講不是屬於一二類"},{"start":12360.37,"end":12362.37,"text":"的這些無人機 屬於"},{"start":12362.37,"end":12364.37,"text":"大型的這些"},{"start":12364.37,"end":12366.37,"text":"的無人機 那這個也是"},{"start":12366.37,"end":12368.37,"text":"又是另外一種型態"},{"start":12368.37,"end":12370.37,"text":"那這種型態的這個無人機"},{"start":12370.37,"end":12372.37,"text":"是屬於我們放在"},{"start":12372.37,"end":12374.37,"text":"不管是多扣過商購"},{"start":12374.37,"end":12376.37,"text":"或軍購的項目裡面"},{"start":12376.37,"end":12378.37,"text":"去設計的"},{"start":12382.5,"end":12384.5,"text":"國外的商購的部分"},{"start":12384.5,"end":12386.5,"text":"或者是軍購的這個部分"},{"start":12386.5,"end":12388.5,"text":"我們會另外以其他的預算"},{"start":12388.5,"end":12390.5,"text":"來補足 那我們強調的是"},{"start":12390.5,"end":12392.5,"text":"我們這一次的預算就強調"},{"start":12392.5,"end":12394.5,"text":"在這個特定的這幾"},{"start":12394.97,"end":12396.97,"text":"的這個無人機跟無人艇"},{"start":12396.97,"end":12398.97,"text":"然後強調在是我們"},{"start":12398.97,"end":12400.97,"text":"要強化防衛韌性 所以要"},{"start":12400.97,"end":12402.97,"text":"完全的光這個自主"},{"start":12402.97,"end":12404.97,"text":"的產制 那所以這"},{"start":12404.97,"end":12406.97,"text":"兩個的目的是相當的"},{"start":12406.97,"end":12408.97,"text":"不一樣的 希望有一個"},{"start":12408.97,"end":12410.97,"text":"明顯的一個區隔"},{"start":12410.97,"end":12412.97,"text":"那這個是廣布的"},{"start":12412.97,"end":12414.97,"text":"這個立場 那"},{"start":12414.97,"end":12416.97,"text":"希望各位"},{"start":12416.97,"end":12418.97,"text":"能夠支持"},{"start":12418.58,"end":12420.58,"text":"將我們所提在的這些"},{"start":12420.58,"end":12422.58,"text":"比較單純的這些採購項目"},{"start":12422.58,"end":12424.58,"text":"以特別條例的部分"},{"start":12424.58,"end":12426.58,"text":"然後後續會將特別預算案"},{"start":12426.58,"end":12428.58,"text":"送進來 那希望"},{"start":12428.58,"end":12430.58,"text":"各位委員能夠加以支持"},{"start":12431.56,"end":12433.56,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來總教兵委員"},{"start":12434.39,"end":12436.39,"text":"好 我一向很敬重我們顧部長"},{"start":12436.39,"end":12438.39,"text":"過去在第十屆我們第九屆"},{"start":12438.39,"end":12440.39,"text":"我們是立法院的同事 但是"},{"start":12440.39,"end":12442.39,"text":"我是覺得呢 我們在思考問題上"},{"start":12442.39,"end":12444.39,"text":"不要陷入了大"},{"start":12444.39,"end":12446.39,"text":"貓走大洞 小貓"},{"start":12446.39,"end":12448.39,"text":"走小洞 這個大家聽過這個"},{"start":12448.39,"end":12450.39,"text":"故事 愛因斯坦還是哪一個哲學家"},{"start":12450.39,"end":12452.39,"text":"科學家 他就"},{"start":12452.39,"end":12454.39,"text":"大貓要走大洞 小貓走小洞 其實你有了"},{"start":12454.39,"end":12456.39,"text":"大洞 大貓小貓都可以"},{"start":12456.39,"end":12458.39,"text":"鑽啊 那我來看一下"},{"start":12458.39,"end":12460.39,"text":"賴斯巴委員的提案 為什麼我會覺得他寫得也不錯"},{"start":12460.39,"end":12462.39,"text":"呢 因為他在第一條的部分他說"},{"start":12462.39,"end":12464.39,"text":"為強化我國情報"},{"start":12464.39,"end":12466.39,"text":"監視 偵查與精準"},{"start":12466.39,"end":12468.39,"text":"打擊 行政院"},{"start":12468.39,"end":12470.39,"text":"說要偵查及精準攻擊"},{"start":12470.39,"end":12472.39,"text":"只差兩項 他"},{"start":12472.39,"end":12474.39,"text":"沒有"},{"start":12473.41,"end":12475.41,"text":"行政院版沒有情報跟監視"},{"start":12475.41,"end":12477.41,"text":"那我所知道的沒有錯"},{"start":12477.41,"end":12479.41,"text":"我長期在關注行政院的"},{"start":12479.41,"end":12481.41,"text":"預算 尤其在MQ9V"},{"start":12481.41,"end":12483.41,"text":"他就是屬於一種"},{"start":12483.41,"end":12485.41,"text":"比現在的高空預警機"},{"start":12485.41,"end":12487.41,"text":"他更具有高空的一個偵查"},{"start":12487.41,"end":12489.41,"text":"能力 他也可以"},{"start":12489.41,"end":12491.41,"text":"監視能力也可以做"},{"start":12491.41,"end":12493.41,"text":"情報的一個輸送"},{"start":12493.17,"end":12495.17,"text":"但是"},{"start":12494.45,"end":12496.45,"text":"賴斯巴委員的這四個項目就像是大洞一樣"},{"start":12497.71,"end":12499.71,"text":"那今天故長說 我只要兩項"},{"start":12499.71,"end":12501.71,"text":"我只要一個小洞 你不要給我大洞"},{"start":12501.71,"end":12503.71,"text":"難道小貓"},{"start":12503.71,"end":12505.71,"text":"可以鑽小洞 小貓不能走大洞嗎"},{"start":12505.71,"end":12507.71,"text":"如果這個特別預算能夠"},{"start":12507.71,"end":12509.71,"text":"給行政院獲制 那你要"},{"start":12509.71,"end":12511.71,"text":"拿去集中在買"},{"start":12511.71,"end":12513.71,"text":"偵查及精準攻擊"},{"start":12513.71,"end":12515.71,"text":"這也沒有妨礙啊"},{"start":12515.17,"end":12517.17,"text":"沒有妨礙啊"},{"start":12517.17,"end":12519.17,"text":"賴委員他比較寬"},{"start":12519.17,"end":12521.17,"text":"他說我給你的這個特別預算"},{"start":12521.17,"end":12523.17,"text":"你可以去做情報監視"},{"start":12523.17,"end":12525.17,"text":"這個是MQ9V的"},{"start":12525.17,"end":12527.17,"text":"或者說偵查或精準打擊"},{"start":12527.17,"end":12529.17,"text":"這就涉及到自殺無人機"},{"start":12529.17,"end":12531.17,"text":"的一個作為 那這個也很不衝突"},{"start":12531.17,"end":12533.17,"text":"倒是呢 我這邊"},{"start":12533.17,"end":12535.17,"text":"因為既然討論條文 我也不是完全無條件"},{"start":12535.17,"end":12537.17,"text":"接受賴委員的版本"},{"start":12537.17,"end":12539.17,"text":"我也是覺得這裡面有一個名詞"},{"start":12539.17,"end":12541.17,"text":"很重要 一個叫做"},{"start":12541.17,"end":12543.17,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12543.17,"end":12545.17,"text":"目前世界上各國"},{"start":12545.17,"end":12547.17,"text":"好像成為一個共識"},{"start":12547.17,"end":12549.17,"text":"但在法律條文當中它並沒有被定義"},{"start":12549.17,"end":12551.17,"text":"紅是哪些"},{"start":12550.96,"end":12552.96,"text":"是PRZ是紅嗎"},{"start":12553.53,"end":12555.53,"text":"中國人民共和國是紅嗎"},{"start":12556.67,"end":12558.67,"text":"越南是不是紅"},{"start":12558.49,"end":12560.49,"text":"我就不清楚越南是不是紅啦"},{"start":12560.49,"end":12562.49,"text":"今天不算算不算紅"},{"start":12561.95,"end":12563.95,"text":"這個我也不清楚啊"},{"start":12563.95,"end":12565.95,"text":"倒是賴委員這邊寫的"},{"start":12565.95,"end":12567.95,"text":"結合美國及其他國家"},{"start":12567.95,"end":12569.95,"text":"好 那如果我們把美國"},{"start":12569.95,"end":12571.95,"text":"放進去 美國絕對不是紅"},{"start":12571.95,"end":12573.95,"text":"那美國及"},{"start":12574.05,"end":12576.05,"text":"其他同盟國家的話"},{"start":12576.05,"end":12578.05,"text":"加同盟兩個字"},{"start":12578.05,"end":12580.05,"text":"那我們就會確定呢 這個美國及"},{"start":12580.05,"end":12582.05,"text":"其他同盟國家就符合"},{"start":12582.05,"end":12584.05,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈的概念"},{"start":12584.05,"end":12586.05,"text":"因為基本上目前有跟美國"},{"start":12586.05,"end":12588.05,"text":"有同盟關係的 像日本"},{"start":12588.05,"end":12590.05,"text":"像菲律賓"},{"start":12590.05,"end":12592.05,"text":"這些呢 都跟美國還有"},{"start":12592.05,"end":12594.05,"text":"那個我們的這個北約"},{"start":12594.05,"end":12596.05,"text":"它都是屬於啊 跟美國"},{"start":12596.05,"end":12598.05,"text":"有同盟關係的 那跟美國"},{"start":12598.05,"end":12600.05,"text":"同盟關係的目前沒有看到"},{"start":12600.05,"end":12602.05,"text":"有所謂被認知為紅的部分"},{"start":12602.05,"end":12604.05,"text":"所以如果以這個條件來講"},{"start":12604.05,"end":12606.05,"text":"如果要把行政院版的飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12606.05,"end":12608.05,"text":"更精準的 不用法律名詞"},{"start":12608.05,"end":12610.05,"text":"去解釋 不用在條文裡面另外解釋"},{"start":12610.05,"end":12612.05,"text":"我們把它放在"},{"start":12612.05,"end":12614.05,"text":"賴斯堡版本委員的那個"},{"start":12614.05,"end":12616.05,"text":"結合美國及其他同盟國家"},{"start":12616.05,"end":12618.05,"text":"這樣的話 大概就"},{"start":12618.05,"end":12620.05,"text":"滿足了飛鴻供應鏈的要求"},{"start":12620.05,"end":12622.05,"text":"那至於其他的國防部擔心說"},{"start":12622.05,"end":12624.05,"text":"還有什麼 服以"},{"start":12624.05,"end":12626.05,"text":"技術移轉及工業合作"},{"start":12626.05,"end":12628.05,"text":"這個其實也是給多一個選項嘛"},{"start":12628.05,"end":12630.05,"text":"所以我是覺得說"},{"start":12630.05,"end":12632.05,"text":"賴委員的版本可取之處"},{"start":12632.05,"end":12634.05,"text":"它是大洞 大貓小貓都可以鑽"},{"start":12634.05,"end":12636.05,"text":"行政院目前第一條的需求是小貓"},{"start":12636.05,"end":12638.05,"text":"你可以走大洞"},{"start":12638.05,"end":12640.05,"text":"所以事實上不用去排斥"},{"start":12640.05,"end":12642.05,"text":"賴委員多了一個情報跟監視"},{"start":12642.05,"end":12644.05,"text":"未來採購的主導權還是在行政院"},{"start":12644.05,"end":12646.05,"text":"那至於飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":12646.05,"end":12648.05,"text":"是否能改以美國及其他同盟國家"},{"start":12648.05,"end":12650.05,"text":"這樣就很明確了"},{"start":12650.05,"end":12652.05,"text":"以上建議"},{"start":12653.58,"end":12655.58,"text":"好"},{"start":12654.81,"end":12656.81,"text":"看起來那個國民黨團這邊"},{"start":12656.81,"end":12658.81,"text":"還有沒有"},{"start":12661.28,"end":12663.28,"text":"好"},{"start":12665.53,"end":12667.53,"text":"再見"},{"start":12666.95,"end":12668.95,"text":"王安祥"},{"start":12671.23,"end":12673.23,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12672.85,"end":12674.85,"text":"王安祥委員有沒有"},{"start":12674.59,"end":12676.59,"text":"沒有"},{"start":12675.64,"end":12677.64,"text":"這也是可以"},{"start":12680.6,"end":12682.6,"text":"國民黨團的體驗的版本"},{"start":12683.89,"end":12685.89,"text":"是"},{"start":12685.71,"end":12687.71,"text":"按照國民黨團"},{"start":12687.71,"end":12689.71,"text":"好"},{"start":12690.39,"end":12692.39,"text":"那這樣好了"},{"start":12692.39,"end":12694.39,"text":"因為看起來就是有三個堅持"},{"start":12694.39,"end":12696.39,"text":"國民黨團 黨團提案"},{"start":12696.39,"end":12698.39,"text":"另外台灣"},{"start":12698.03,"end":12700.03,"text":"剛剛講了"},{"start":12699.4,"end":12701.4,"text":"最後你要再發表嗎"},{"start":12701.4,"end":12703.4,"text":"沒有"},{"start":12702.7,"end":12704.7,"text":"台灣民眾黨團的提案"},{"start":12704.7,"end":12706.7,"text":"有它的一個堅持"},{"start":12706.7,"end":12708.7,"text":"再來就是委員外事保這邊"},{"start":12710.87,"end":12712.87,"text":"沒有他們都有啊"},{"start":12712.95,"end":12714.95,"text":"他剛沒有講"},{"start":12715.77,"end":12717.77,"text":"好"},{"start":12717.77,"end":12719.77,"text":"所以基本上我們就是"},{"start":12719.77,"end":12721.77,"text":"這三個版本看起來也是沒有共識"},{"start":12721.77,"end":12723.77,"text":"所以第一條"},{"start":12724,"end":12726,"text":"這三個版本的提案"},{"start":12726,"end":12728,"text":"均保留"},{"start":12728,"end":12730,"text":"行政院版的你們要不要說話"},{"start":12731.97,"end":12733.97,"text":"不是我說"},{"start":12733.97,"end":12735.97,"text":"你要保留"},{"start":12735.97,"end":12737.97,"text":"你要保留"},{"start":12737.97,"end":12739.97,"text":"就會變成是全部保留"},{"start":12739.97,"end":12741.97,"text":"今天主席就是"},{"start":12741.97,"end":12743.97,"text":"想要保留出委員會"},{"start":12743.97,"end":12745.97,"text":"這樣如何賴委員"},{"start":12748.05,"end":12750.05,"text":"不用啦"},{"start":12750.05,"end":12752.05,"text":"他們立委有沒有要支持"},{"start":12752.05,"end":12754.05,"text":"行政院的版本"},{"start":12754.05,"end":12756.05,"text":"有啦"},{"start":12756.47,"end":12758.47,"text":"好"},{"start":12758.47,"end":12760.47,"text":"第一條所有版本的提案均保留"},{"start":12766.68,"end":12768.68,"text":"進行第二條"},{"start":12769.21,"end":12771.21,"text":"請這個"},{"start":12777.85,"end":12779.85,"text":"對"},{"start":12779.2,"end":12781.2,"text":"那個就並在一起就好"},{"start":12783.47,"end":12785.47,"text":"那是老委員的第二條"},{"start":12785.47,"end":12787.47,"text":"那個需要嗎"},{"start":12788.5,"end":12790.5,"text":"那是老委員你的那個"},{"start":12792.95,"end":12794.95,"text":"不是"},{"start":12794.95,"end":12796.95,"text":"他有一個無人宅居產業升級發展的第一條完之後"},{"start":12796.95,"end":12798.95,"text":"他"},{"start":12798.95,"end":12800.95,"text":"那個第二條"},{"start":12801.14,"end":12803.14,"text":"那個是單獨的"},{"start":12803.65,"end":12805.65,"text":"這兩個分開啦"},{"start":12805.65,"end":12807.65,"text":"這兩個案子嘛我提兩個案子嘛"},{"start":12807.65,"end":12809.65,"text":"一個案子是這個國防部一個經濟部"},{"start":12809.65,"end":12811.65,"text":"現在就一起審查嘛就看大家"},{"start":12811.65,"end":12813.65,"text":"老委員的意見"},{"start":12814.01,"end":12816.01,"text":"那個程序我請教一下"},{"start":12817.5,"end":12819.5,"text":"現在賴事榜委員又說他提了兩個案子"},{"start":12819.5,"end":12821.5,"text":"那兩個案子要分開審查"},{"start":12821.5,"end":12823.5,"text":"沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":12823.5,"end":12825.5,"text":"他是一起審"},{"start":12825.5,"end":12827.5,"text":"你現在到底是要一起還是要分開"},{"start":12827.5,"end":12829.5,"text":"你是兩個不同的概念"},{"start":12829.5,"end":12831.5,"text":"所以你就回到我剛剛講"},{"start":12831.5,"end":12833.5,"text":"因為就一起審查"},{"start":12833.5,"end":12835.5,"text":"因為與會交保"},{"start":12835.5,"end":12837.5,"text":"你的採購的主管機關"},{"start":12837.5,"end":12839.5,"text":"一定是國防部嘛"},{"start":12839.5,"end":12841.5,"text":"你的產業發展條例的主管機關"},{"start":12841.5,"end":12843.5,"text":"一定是經濟部嘛"},{"start":12843.5,"end":12845.5,"text":"你的兩個案子怎麼放在一起審"},{"start":12845.5,"end":12847.5,"text":"你現在又說兩個要分開"},{"start":12847.66,"end":12850.66,"text":"我說不要分開"},{"start":12851.44,"end":12853.44,"text":"到底是要一起還是要分開"},{"start":12854.17,"end":12858.17,"text":"我現在因為與會交辦下來要一起審"},{"start":12858.17,"end":12860.17,"text":"就是你們強制表決亂搞嘛"},{"start":12860.17,"end":12862.17,"text":"與會交辦下來要一起審"},{"start":12862.17,"end":12864.17,"text":"你現在就完全打官了嘛"},{"start":12866.49,"end":12868.49,"text":"國防採購一定是在國防部主管嘛"},{"start":12868.49,"end":12870.49,"text":"現在就是這樣子"},{"start":12870.49,"end":12872.49,"text":"你現在第二條例就卡關了嘛"},{"start":12872.49,"end":12874.49,"text":"你現在又要一起又要分開"},{"start":12874.49,"end":12876.49,"text":"那到底是要怎麼審呢"},{"start":12879.15,"end":12881.15,"text":"來 政天才會"},{"start":12881.29,"end":12883.29,"text":"沒有 我現在是說"},{"start":12883.29,"end":12885.29,"text":"因為他這個根據"},{"start":12884.5,"end":12886.5,"text":"在那個第三頁的上面"},{"start":12886.5,"end":12888.5,"text":"那委員他的這個"},{"start":12888.5,"end":12890.5,"text":"有一個版本的第二條"},{"start":12890.5,"end":12891.5,"text":"那個也是一併保留"},{"start":12891.5,"end":12893.5,"text":"我只是要宣告這樣子而已"},{"start":12893.5,"end":12895.5,"text":"然後接下來才進到我們的第二條"},{"start":12895.5,"end":12897.5,"text":"所以不要誤會"},{"start":12897.5,"end":12899.5,"text":"這樣清楚嗎"},{"start":12899.5,"end":12901.5,"text":"現在到第二條嗎"},{"start":12901.5,"end":12903.5,"text":"對 行政院版的第二條開始"},{"start":12903.13,"end":12905.13,"text":"好 這個"},{"start":12905.85,"end":12907.85,"text":"行政院版的第二條"},{"start":12908.68,"end":12910.68,"text":"對 保留"},{"start":12912.14,"end":12914.14,"text":"第一條啦"},{"start":12914.14,"end":12916.14,"text":"他在唸第一條"},{"start":12916.14,"end":12918.14,"text":"不要緊張 第一條"},{"start":12917.69,"end":12919.69,"text":"現在開始要進行是"},{"start":12921.54,"end":12923.54,"text":"嗯"},{"start":12923.16,"end":12925.16,"text":"保留"},{"start":12924.1,"end":12926.1,"text":"接下來我們進行的是"},{"start":12926.1,"end":12928.1,"text":"行政院版的第二條開始討論"},{"start":12928.1,"end":12930.1,"text":"就是你們手上的第三頁下半部這裡"},{"start":12931.85,"end":12933.85,"text":"好"},{"start":12933.59,"end":12935.59,"text":"直接可以發言了嗎"},{"start":12935.59,"end":12937.59,"text":"可以 好"},{"start":12937.15,"end":12939.15,"text":"政天才會"},{"start":12938.84,"end":12940.84,"text":"有關這個"},{"start":12940.74,"end":12942.74,"text":"主管機關"},{"start":12942.74,"end":12944.74,"text":"主管機關如果我們從這個"},{"start":12944.74,"end":12946.74,"text":"無論是行政院版本"},{"start":12946.74,"end":12948.74,"text":"或是國民黨團的版本"},{"start":12948.74,"end":12950.74,"text":"或是民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":12952.54,"end":12954.54,"text":"如果我們從法律名稱來看"},{"start":12955.8,"end":12957.8,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":12957.8,"end":12959.8,"text":"無人宰計"},{"start":12959.8,"end":12961.8,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":12961.21,"end":12963.21,"text":"所以在這樣的一個前提之下"},{"start":12963.93,"end":12965.93,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":12965.93,"end":12967.93,"text":"那當然就要由經濟部"},{"start":12968.55,"end":12970.55,"text":"哈哈"},{"start":12970.36,"end":12972.36,"text":"好對不起我笑太大聲了"},{"start":12972.36,"end":12974.36,"text":"為什麼呢"},{"start":12974.39,"end":12976.39,"text":"好我來說"},{"start":12976.25,"end":12978.25,"text":"因為要自己"},{"start":12978.56,"end":12980.56,"text":"慘了"},{"start":12980.75,"end":12982.75,"text":"生產啊"},{"start":12982.66,"end":12984.66,"text":"要自己生產"},{"start":12984.66,"end":12986.66,"text":"國防部有辦法自己生產嗎"},{"start":12987.84,"end":12989.84,"text":"國防自主就是要自己生產啊"},{"start":12990.93,"end":12992.93,"text":"所以要由經濟部"},{"start":12993.63,"end":12995.63,"text":"何況"},{"start":12997.71,"end":12999.71,"text":"這個行政院本來就有一個計劃"},{"start":13001.49,"end":13003.49,"text":"無人宰計的一個計劃"},{"start":13004.63,"end":13006.63,"text":"這個主管機關就是經濟部"},{"start":13006.63,"end":13008.63,"text":"那我們現在就是要把這個"},{"start":13011.57,"end":13013.57,"text":"行政院的一個"},{"start":13013.57,"end":13015.57,"text":"無人宰計的一個計劃"},{"start":13015.57,"end":13017.57,"text":"提升為法律的位階"},{"start":13018.22,"end":13020.22,"text":"讓他能夠"},{"start":13019.97,"end":13021.97,"text":"能夠有法律的一個地位"},{"start":13021.97,"end":13023.97,"text":"然後能夠預算"},{"start":13023.97,"end":13025.97,"text":"能夠非常的"},{"start":13025.97,"end":13027.97,"text":"能夠確保"},{"start":13028.05,"end":13030.05,"text":"所以"},{"start":13029.52,"end":13031.52,"text":"既然是這樣"},{"start":13031.52,"end":13033.52,"text":"我們應該就是要以這個"},{"start":13033.52,"end":13035.52,"text":"國民黨團的提案或是民眾黨團"},{"start":13035.52,"end":13037.52,"text":"的提案的地"},{"start":13037.82,"end":13039.82,"text":"有關主管機關的部分"},{"start":13041.01,"end":13043.01,"text":"就是要由經濟部作為一個主管機關"},{"start":13043.01,"end":13045.01,"text":"那國防部跟經濟部"},{"start":13045.01,"end":13047.01,"text":"這一個怎麼樣去"},{"start":13047.01,"end":13049.01,"text":"如果按照國民黨團"},{"start":13049.01,"end":13051.01,"text":"版本的話"},{"start":13051.01,"end":13053.01,"text":"經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":13053.01,"end":13055.01,"text":"也都是主辦的一個機關"},{"start":13055.01,"end":13057.01,"text":"那怎麼樣去"},{"start":13057.33,"end":13059.33,"text":"執行我們後面的條文"},{"start":13059.33,"end":13061.33,"text":"就可以有更好的一個"},{"start":13061.33,"end":13063.33,"text":"討論"},{"start":13063.33,"end":13065.33,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":13066.16,"end":13068.16,"text":"好 還是把五元在"},{"start":13070.06,"end":13072.06,"text":"我強調一下"},{"start":13072.06,"end":13074.06,"text":"也感謝民進黨"},{"start":13074.06,"end":13076.06,"text":"先進的支持我的版本"},{"start":13076.06,"end":13078.06,"text":"然後要製造我的矛盾"},{"start":13078.06,"end":13080.06,"text":"實在一點都沒有矛盾"},{"start":13080.06,"end":13082.06,"text":"因為今天在經濟委員會主審"},{"start":13082.06,"end":13084.06,"text":"就是經濟委員會主管單位"},{"start":13084.06,"end":13086.06,"text":"就是經濟部"},{"start":13086.06,"end":13088.06,"text":"然後你可以有一個國防採購專章"},{"start":13089.45,"end":13091.45,"text":"我的木板一直被放進來了"},{"start":13091.76,"end":13093.76,"text":"就這麼簡單的事情"},{"start":13093.76,"end":13095.76,"text":"這立法技術"},{"start":13095.76,"end":13097.76,"text":"黨黨在一起幾個委員"},{"start":13097.76,"end":13099.76,"text":"民進黨委員都在這裡"},{"start":13099.76,"end":13101.76,"text":"老鳥也不是菜鳥"},{"start":13101.76,"end":13103.76,"text":"都很清楚知道這個立法技術都可以處理的"},{"start":13103.76,"end":13105.76,"text":"就是我的兩個案子可以變為一個"},{"start":13105.76,"end":13107.76,"text":"但是精神要都有"},{"start":13107.75,"end":13109.75,"text":"老鳥"},{"start":13108.95,"end":13110.95,"text":"我這裡面就是在經濟部主導底下"},{"start":13110.95,"end":13112.95,"text":"然後"},{"start":13112.95,"end":13114.95,"text":"第一個專章叫國防採購專章"},{"start":13114.95,"end":13116.95,"text":"或者國防自主"},{"start":13116.95,"end":13118.95,"text":"採購專章都可以"},{"start":13118.95,"end":13120.95,"text":"裡面就把它放進來"},{"start":13120.95,"end":13122.95,"text":"那有什麼問題"},{"start":13122.95,"end":13124.95,"text":"所以不需要說一定要扯這個"},{"start":13124.95,"end":13126.95,"text":"一定要分開兩個等等的"},{"start":13126.95,"end":13128.95,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":13128.31,"end":13130.31,"text":"我們是希望這個法案"},{"start":13130.31,"end":13132.31,"text":"越快通過越好"},{"start":13132.31,"end":13134.31,"text":"而且不要忘了喔"},{"start":13133.96,"end":13138.96,"text":"國民黨的這個黨版是2400億喔"},{"start":13138.96,"end":13141.96,"text":"如果加上再500億就2900億喔"},{"start":13142.69,"end":13146.69,"text":"比這個國務長列的2100億多太多太多喔"},{"start":13146.69,"end":13149.69,"text":"這個東西是不是讓案子早一點過"},{"start":13149.69,"end":13151.69,"text":"可能比這個比什麼都重要啦"},{"start":13151.69,"end":13153.69,"text":"我再強調一遍"},{"start":13154.28,"end":13156.28,"text":"我的兩個案子沒有矛盾"},{"start":13156.28,"end":13158.28,"text":"沒有矛盾"},{"start":13158.28,"end":13160.28,"text":"經濟部主導"},{"start":13160.28,"end":13162.28,"text":"國防部的採購放在裡面的專章就夠"},{"start":13164.12,"end":13166.12,"text":"好,接下來我們請劉書斌委"},{"start":13166.12,"end":13168.12,"text":"好,謝謝主席"},{"start":13167.9,"end":13169.9,"text":"本黨的版本當中"},{"start":13169.9,"end":13172.9,"text":"現在針對行政院的第二條"},{"start":13172.9,"end":13174.9,"text":"我們是在第三條"},{"start":13174.9,"end":13177.9,"text":"呼應到我們本黨的整個設計規劃"},{"start":13177.9,"end":13180.9,"text":"是它要是一個軍民通用"},{"start":13180.9,"end":13182.9,"text":"還是可以進到國際供應鏈"},{"start":13182.9,"end":13183.9,"text":"我們已經講過了"},{"start":13185.01,"end":13187.01,"text":"由一個這個產業呢"},{"start":13187.01,"end":13189.01,"text":"它的確是有發展的可行性"},{"start":13189.01,"end":13191.01,"text":"那這個產業的可能性"},{"start":13191.01,"end":13194.01,"text":"必須要是有強烈的這個民用的這樣的"},{"start":13194.01,"end":13196.01,"text":"包括跟支撐到軍軍的部分喔"},{"start":13196.01,"end":13198.01,"text":"那所以呢我們的"},{"start":13198.01,"end":13200.01,"text":"這個產業的為主的"},{"start":13200.01,"end":13202.01,"text":"跟國防自主在一起的這個"},{"start":13202.01,"end":13204.01,"text":"內容上面就有兩個主管機關"},{"start":13204.01,"end":13206.01,"text":"在中央的主管機關的部分在經濟部"},{"start":13206.01,"end":13208.01,"text":"那涉及到特別拉出來是"},{"start":13208.01,"end":13212.01,"text":"經濟國防的運用事項的話就是國防部"},{"start":13212.01,"end":13213.01,"text":"那當然它也有地方"},{"start":13213.01,"end":13214.01,"text":"大家可以看到說我們的"},{"start":13214.01,"end":13217.01,"text":"委員他們自己的選區在這邊"},{"start":13217.01,"end":13218.01,"text":"在地方也非常重要"},{"start":13218.01,"end":13221.01,"text":"所以也是產業的一個大本營喔"},{"start":13221.01,"end":13223.01,"text":"所以涉及到地方的部分"},{"start":13223.01,"end":13224.01,"text":"就是各縣市的政府"},{"start":13224.01,"end":13226.01,"text":"那這邊特別再講到說"},{"start":13226.01,"end":13229.01,"text":"把裡面的涉及到有關飛航的"},{"start":13229.01,"end":13230.01,"text":"安全等等的"},{"start":13230.01,"end":13232.01,"text":"這邊就是還是有區域上面差異"},{"start":13232.01,"end":13234.01,"text":"也是把它做了一個區分喔"},{"start":13234.01,"end":13237.01,"text":"那當然這邊不是沒有利可循喔"},{"start":13237.01,"end":13242.01,"text":"就在於說因為在文化資產的條例當中"},{"start":13242.01,"end":13243.01,"text":"我們看一下喔 等我一下喔"},{"start":13245.1,"end":13247.1,"text":"在文化資產保存法當中"},{"start":13247.1,"end":13249.1,"text":"就有這樣的一個情況"},{"start":13249.1,"end":13251.1,"text":"中央機關機關是文化部"},{"start":13251.1,"end":13252.1,"text":"但是在設"},{"start":13252.1,"end":13254.1,"text":"而且有地方的這個主管機關喔"},{"start":13254.1,"end":13256.1,"text":"在直轄市各縣市等等"},{"start":13256.1,"end":13259.1,"text":"但是如果在文化資產的領域當中"},{"start":13259.1,"end":13261.1,"text":"它是涉及到自然地景跟自然"},{"start":13261.1,"end":13263.1,"text":"紀念物的話"},{"start":13263.1,"end":13266.1,"text":"那中央的話就是為農業部"},{"start":13266.1,"end":13268.1,"text":"那如果是海域的"},{"start":13268.1,"end":13271.1,"text":"這樣的一個文化資產的保護的地方"},{"start":13271.1,"end":13273.1,"text":"它的主管機關就是海巡署"},{"start":13273.1,"end":13275.1,"text":"所以我們是很認真的就"},{"start":13275.1,"end":13278.1,"text":"它可能的可能相關主管機關都負責"},{"start":13278.1,"end":13279.1,"text":"那個責任一些"},{"start":13279.1,"end":13280.1,"text":"包括中央跟地方"},{"start":13280.1,"end":13283.1,"text":"一起來把推動這樣的無人機產業"},{"start":13283.1,"end":13285.1,"text":"包括無人機的國防的自主來去努力"},{"start":13285.1,"end":13286.1,"text":"請大家支持"},{"start":13288.32,"end":13289.32,"text":"好 終焦邊緣"},{"start":13291.6,"end":13293.6,"text":"剛聽完劉委員的發言"},{"start":13293.6,"end":13294.6,"text":"你不用擔心"},{"start":13294.6,"end":13296.6,"text":"因為你們是第三條"},{"start":13296.6,"end":13297.6,"text":"在講主管機關"},{"start":13297.6,"end":13298.6,"text":"國民黨團是第二條"},{"start":13298.6,"end":13299.6,"text":"再反過來"},{"start":13299.6,"end":13301.6,"text":"國民黨第三條再講民事定義"},{"start":13301.6,"end":13303.6,"text":"你們是第二條民事定義"},{"start":13303.6,"end":13304.6,"text":"待會就會審到不用緊張"},{"start":13304.6,"end":13306.6,"text":"那到底是在自管委員"},{"start":13306.6,"end":13309.6,"text":"我在講二條講主管機關"},{"start":13309.6,"end":13312.6,"text":"那主管機關目前大部分的條文本都在第二條"},{"start":13312.6,"end":13314.6,"text":"那第二條當中我仔細看了一下"},{"start":13314.6,"end":13318.6,"text":"我還是願意再度的釋出一個好的善意"},{"start":13318.6,"end":13320.6,"text":"就是我們能夠互相退讓"},{"start":13320.6,"end":13322.6,"text":"才能夠有共識版本"},{"start":13322.6,"end":13325.6,"text":"那我還是再次的提到賴志堡委員的版本"},{"start":13325.6,"end":13328.6,"text":"他雖然寫本條例自主管機關為國防部"},{"start":13328.6,"end":13329.6,"text":"他第一項是這樣寫"},{"start":13329.6,"end":13330.6,"text":"大概大部分都是這樣"},{"start":13330.6,"end":13332.6,"text":"但是第二項他也提到了"},{"start":13332.6,"end":13337.6,"text":"本條例所訂之技術移轉工業合作及產業升級四項"},{"start":13337.6,"end":13339.6,"text":"由國防部會同經濟部辦理"},{"start":13339.6,"end":13341.6,"text":"這個說得倒是沒有錯"},{"start":13341.6,"end":13343.6,"text":"如果這樣條例除了採購之外"},{"start":13343.6,"end":13345.6,"text":"因為他的目的"},{"start":13345.6,"end":13346.6,"text":"在賴委員的版本的第一條"},{"start":13346.6,"end":13350.6,"text":"他就有包含未來希望能夠帶動產業的這樣的一個發展"},{"start":13350.6,"end":13353.6,"text":"所以這時候由國防部來會同經濟部這是OK的"},{"start":13353.6,"end":13357.6,"text":"不過我對於後半段就認為可以商榷"},{"start":13357.6,"end":13360.6,"text":"並得邀集國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":13362.06,"end":13366.06,"text":"部會來協同推動這也還可以"},{"start":13366.06,"end":13369.06,"text":"因為共同辦理跟協助推動這是一樣"},{"start":13369.06,"end":13374.06,"text":"但是把國家中山科學研究院及相關法人業界"},{"start":13374.06,"end":13376.06,"text":"這個就是多此一舉"},{"start":13376.06,"end":13378.06,"text":"因為在我們的立法例當中"},{"start":13378.06,"end":13382.06,"text":"在條文當中要明定主管機關之外"},{"start":13382.06,"end":13385.06,"text":"在行政院如果其他部會可以參與的話"},{"start":13385.06,"end":13387.06,"text":"要以部會層級來表達"},{"start":13387.06,"end":13389.06,"text":"所以本條例他這裡所說的"},{"start":13389.06,"end":13391.06,"text":"由國防部會同經濟部辦理"},{"start":13391.06,"end":13393.06,"text":"辦理什麼呢?辦理技術移轉"},{"start":13393.06,"end":13395.06,"text":"辦理工業合作辦理產業升級"},{"start":13395.06,"end":13397.06,"text":"這個堪稱隱蕩"},{"start":13397.06,"end":13401.06,"text":"那如果還要再加上一個國科會來協助協同推動"},{"start":13401.06,"end":13404.06,"text":"在立法例上來講同是部會等級這OK"},{"start":13404.06,"end":13408.06,"text":"但是你把一個法人放在這個條文裡面"},{"start":13408.06,"end":13411.06,"text":"就顯得有點不倫不類啦"},{"start":13411.06,"end":13412.06,"text":"所以我是建議陳可能建議"},{"start":13412.06,"end":13416.06,"text":"雖然我肯定賴委員的提案內容的包容比較寬"},{"start":13416.06,"end":13417.06,"text":"但是我還是要提出來"},{"start":13417.06,"end":13420.06,"text":"如果要採用賴委員版本的第二條"},{"start":13420.06,"end":13422.06,"text":"不曉得國防部可不可以接受"},{"start":13422.06,"end":13423.06,"text":"還有經濟部可不可以接受"},{"start":13423.06,"end":13425.06,"text":"如果只是把他的第二項"},{"start":13425.06,"end":13429.06,"text":"經濟部放進去共同辦會同經濟部辦理"},{"start":13429.06,"end":13431.06,"text":"以及國科會協同推動放進去"},{"start":13431.06,"end":13434.06,"text":"不曉得國防部跟經濟部的意見態度怎麼樣"},{"start":13434.06,"end":13436.06,"text":"請主席處理"},{"start":13439.06,"end":13440.06,"text":"來"},{"start":13439.94,"end":13441.94,"text":"我先表達我的意見"},{"start":13441.94,"end":13443.94,"text":"其實對"},{"start":13443.94,"end":13446.94,"text":"因為我覺得你做一個產業的發展"},{"start":13446.94,"end":13449.94,"text":"因為當時在這一個國防的自主的時候"},{"start":13451.13,"end":13453.13,"text":"我們的部長都說過"},{"start":13453.13,"end":13456.13,"text":"這個就是你要百分之百的國產化"},{"start":13456.13,"end":13457.13,"text":"對不對"},{"start":13457.13,"end":13459.13,"text":"國內自主產製"},{"start":13459.13,"end":13461.13,"text":"所以基本上來講的話"},{"start":13461.13,"end":13462.13,"text":"我是覺得你這個東西"},{"start":13462.13,"end":13464.13,"text":"它就是為一個需求"},{"start":13464.13,"end":13466.13,"text":"需求規格當然是國防部開"},{"start":13466.13,"end":13470.13,"text":"但是整個產業的研究升級發展的話"},{"start":13470.13,"end":13471.13,"text":"基本上你怎麼去促進"},{"start":13471.13,"end":13473.13,"text":"這個國防規格的滿足"},{"start":13473.13,"end":13475.13,"text":"那是經濟部要去主導"},{"start":13475.13,"end":13477.13,"text":"所以在這裡頭的話"},{"start":13477.13,"end":13479.13,"text":"本黨團當然就是主管機關"},{"start":13479.13,"end":13480.13,"text":"我們那是經濟部"},{"start":13480.13,"end":13483.13,"text":"但是你涉及國防運用是像是國防部"},{"start":13484.15,"end":13488.15,"text":"所以這位是跟王定宇委員的也是一樣"},{"start":13488.15,"end":13489.15,"text":"王定宇委員的話"},{"start":13489.15,"end":13491.15,"text":"中央主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":13491.15,"end":13493.15,"text":"涉及國防等等採購"},{"start":13493.15,"end":13495.15,"text":"或者是我們講的事用是國防部"},{"start":13495.88,"end":13498.88,"text":"那國民黨團的提案來講就是經濟部"},{"start":13498.88,"end":13500.88,"text":"只是在家主辦"},{"start":13500.88,"end":13501.88,"text":"所以你主辦的話"},{"start":13501.88,"end":13503.88,"text":"基本上主辦機關有經濟部國防部"},{"start":13503.88,"end":13505.88,"text":"這些都有法令可循"},{"start":13505.88,"end":13507.88,"text":"所以我是覺得就是"},{"start":13507.88,"end":13509.88,"text":"你要國產自製化"},{"start":13509.88,"end":13512.88,"text":"從我們的研發升級跟產業輔導"},{"start":13512.88,"end":13513.88,"text":"那是經濟部"},{"start":13513.88,"end":13515.88,"text":"眾多政府部會"},{"start":13515.88,"end":13518.88,"text":"even包含軍事規格的制定"},{"start":13518.88,"end":13519.88,"text":"那可能是國防"},{"start":13519.88,"end":13522.88,"text":"那其他部會當然就為需求進來就可以了"},{"start":13522.88,"end":13523.88,"text":"我覺得就是一個"},{"start":13523.88,"end":13526.88,"text":"比較符合我們科技產業的這樣子的一個"},{"start":13526.88,"end":13528.88,"text":"發展的一個條理"},{"start":13528.88,"end":13529.88,"text":"一個"},{"start":13531.11,"end":13533.11,"text":"現實的一個發展的一個方向"},{"start":13533.11,"end":13534.11,"text":"跟這個做法"},{"start":13534.11,"end":13536.11,"text":"謝一鳳委員"},{"start":13536.11,"end":13537.11,"text":"主席不好意思"},{"start":13537.11,"end":13538.11,"text":"那個我覺得那個"},{"start":13538.11,"end":13540.11,"text":"如果周家斌委員有意見"},{"start":13540.11,"end":13543.11,"text":"那這應該是給那個行政院"},{"start":13543.11,"end":13546.11,"text":"就是經濟部還有國防部來說明一下"},{"start":13546.11,"end":13547.11,"text":"就是那個看法"},{"start":13547.11,"end":13549.11,"text":"沒關係我先表達我的看法完"},{"start":13549.11,"end":13551.11,"text":"好不好我再請他們說明謝謝"},{"start":13552.44,"end":13553.44,"text":"好啦經濟部"},{"start":13560.8,"end":13562.8,"text":"跟各位委員報告"},{"start":13562.8,"end":13565.8,"text":"因為院板其實我們的條文"},{"start":13565.8,"end":13569.8,"text":"是最主要是這個國防自主的這個需求"},{"start":13569.8,"end":13573.8,"text":"然後來做這個無人機的這個採購"},{"start":13573.8,"end":13575.8,"text":"建立國內的這個"},{"start":13575.8,"end":13580.8,"text":"國防的一個軍事的一個這個能量"},{"start":13580.8,"end":13584.8,"text":"那所以如果把經濟部列為主管機關的話"},{"start":13584.8,"end":13585.8,"text":"事實上在實務上"},{"start":13585.8,"end":13588.8,"text":"我們也沒辦法幫國安部來決定"},{"start":13589.13,"end":13591.13,"text":"要採購什麼樣的一些機型"},{"start":13591.13,"end":13595.13,"text":"所以這個部分也會牽涉到就是說未來分工"},{"start":13595.13,"end":13596.13,"text":"分工的部分"},{"start":13596.13,"end":13599.13,"text":"所以我們還是建立委員會這邊能夠來"},{"start":13599.13,"end":13601.13,"text":"這個支持行政院的版本"},{"start":13601.13,"end":13604.13,"text":"以這個主管機關為國安部"},{"start":13604.13,"end":13606.13,"text":"這樣的一個主張謝謝"},{"start":13609.25,"end":13612.25,"text":"好所以這一條看起來大家都"},{"start":13614.85,"end":13616.85,"text":"國安部啊國安部要說明了"},{"start":13617.35,"end":13619.35,"text":"沒有啊因為他沒有舉手啊經濟部"},{"start":13624.77,"end":13626.77,"text":"要發言是要舉手是吧"},{"start":13626.77,"end":13628.77,"text":"因為我們是不是委員"},{"start":13628.77,"end":13631.77,"text":"沒有啊因為經濟部有剛跟我講說他想要發言"},{"start":13632.67,"end":13634.67,"text":"是吧"},{"start":13633.93,"end":13635.93,"text":"那個我想"},{"start":13635.69,"end":13638.69,"text":"國防部為主管機關就行政院的版本來講"},{"start":13638.69,"end":13639.69,"text":"我想簡單明瞭"},{"start":13639.69,"end":13642.69,"text":"因為我們是提出我們的採購"},{"start":13642.69,"end":13643.69,"text":"我們周帶需求的採購"},{"start":13643.69,"end":13645.69,"text":"所以當然以國防部為主管機關"},{"start":13645.69,"end":13647.69,"text":"那至於其他的部分"},{"start":13647.69,"end":13650.69,"text":"有關產業發展的部分為經濟部"},{"start":13650.69,"end":13652.69,"text":"國防部的立場就是產業發展"},{"start":13652.69,"end":13654.69,"text":"跟我們現在要進行的國防採購"},{"start":13654.69,"end":13657.69,"text":"而且以特別預算的方式來編列兩個"},{"start":13658.84,"end":13660.84,"text":"國防部"},{"start":13660.06,"end":13662.06,"text":"沒有絕對的衝突"},{"start":13662.06,"end":13664.06,"text":"但不需要將他放在我們的特別條例裡面"},{"start":13664.06,"end":13666.06,"text":"所以我們的特別條例"},{"start":13666.06,"end":13668.06,"text":"很明白的就是"},{"start":13668.06,"end":13670.06,"text":"我們要採購特定的項目"},{"start":13670.06,"end":13672.06,"text":"而且這些特定的項目在特別條例通過之後"},{"start":13672.06,"end":13675.06,"text":"我們要提出這些特別預算的項目"},{"start":13675.06,"end":13681.06,"text":"那至於剛剛有委員提到那個賴斯堡委員的提案"},{"start":13681.06,"end":13686.06,"text":"提到這些有關技術移轉工業合作跟產業升級等等"},{"start":13686.06,"end":13688.06,"text":"那特別是就技術移轉跟工業合作的部分"},{"start":13688.06,"end":13691.06,"text":"因為我們的部分是屬於自主生產的部分"},{"start":13691.06,"end":13696.06,"text":"所以不會涉及到相關的這些工業合作或技術移轉的部分"},{"start":13696.06,"end":13699.06,"text":"因為我們是百分之百要在國內自治"},{"start":13699.06,"end":13703.06,"text":"至於廠商會私下就這個性能提升"},{"start":13703.06,"end":13704.06,"text":"不但會疊帶創新的部分"},{"start":13704.06,"end":13706.06,"text":"跟國外產生技術合作"},{"start":13706.06,"end":13708.06,"text":"這不在屬於我們這一次"},{"start":13708.06,"end":13711.06,"text":"應該要特別納列的一個範圍之內"},{"start":13711.06,"end":13714.06,"text":"這個要跟各位做一個說明"},{"start":13714.06,"end":13717.06,"text":"那麼如果當然今天不再往下看"},{"start":13717.06,"end":13720.06,"text":"我想賴委員所提案的這些項目"},{"start":13720.06,"end":13723.06,"text":"事實上跟我們現在要採購的這個項目"},{"start":13723.06,"end":13726.06,"text":"並不是屬於統一類型的這個項目裡面"},{"start":13726.06,"end":13731.06,"text":"這個是屬於我們另外會編列在相關的預算裡面"},{"start":13733.41,"end":13734.41,"text":"喂喂"},{"start":13734.69,"end":13736.69,"text":"我想就先講到這邊"},{"start":13736.92,"end":13737.92,"text":"好 謝謝各位"},{"start":13739.07,"end":13740.07,"text":"終於"},{"start":13741.16,"end":13743.16,"text":"謝謝國防部的說明啦"},{"start":13743.16,"end":13745.16,"text":"因為委員的版本大家各有堅持"},{"start":13745.16,"end":13747.16,"text":"那我今天率先都肯定"},{"start":13747.16,"end":13748.16,"text":"其他委員的內容"},{"start":13748.16,"end":13749.16,"text":"雖然我已經做一些修正"},{"start":13749.16,"end":13753.16,"text":"但是我還是要做其他的版本的一個比較"},{"start":13753.16,"end":13757.16,"text":"剛剛政委有提到這個國防自主要放在經濟部"},{"start":13757.16,"end":13759.16,"text":"這樣的紅論"},{"start":13759.16,"end":13761.16,"text":"那這樣的話可能會涉及到205兵工廠"},{"start":13761.16,"end":13763.16,"text":"是不是要交給經濟部來主管"},{"start":13763.16,"end":13765.16,"text":"因為205兵工廠就是國防自主"},{"start":13765.16,"end":13767.16,"text":"三強槍炮彈藥"},{"start":13767.16,"end":13769.16,"text":"那這個如果是屬於國防自主的部分"},{"start":13769.16,"end":13771.16,"text":"那如果給經濟部的話"},{"start":13771.16,"end":13773.16,"text":"這就不太"},{"start":13772.49,"end":13774.49,"text":"不太看起來怪怪的啦"},{"start":13774.49,"end":13776.49,"text":"不過還好剛剛我們部長的說明"},{"start":13776.49,"end":13778.49,"text":"已經把這個疑惑解除了"},{"start":13778.49,"end":13780.49,"text":"也就是說在我們自主產製"},{"start":13780.49,"end":13781.49,"text":"百分之百自治的部分"},{"start":13781.49,"end":13783.49,"text":"當然還是由國防部來主管"},{"start":13783.49,"end":13786.49,"text":"那至於說未來目前行政院版本"},{"start":13786.49,"end":13789.49,"text":"要來採購的這個無人載具的類型"},{"start":13789.49,"end":13791.49,"text":"那麼是不是有包含了未來"},{"start":13791.49,"end":13795.49,"text":"有可能全部在國內自主研發製造"},{"start":13795.49,"end":13797.49,"text":"這個我也是沒有把握"},{"start":13797.49,"end":13798.49,"text":"因為老實說"},{"start":13798.49,"end":13801.49,"text":"目前台灣的載具無人機"},{"start":13801.49,"end":13804.49,"text":"整個系統生態系產業鏈"},{"start":13804.49,"end":13807.49,"text":"能夠全機整機外銷的"},{"start":13807.49,"end":13810.49,"text":"大概要作為軍用的部分的比例"},{"start":13810.49,"end":13812.49,"text":"其實是有一些"},{"start":13812.49,"end":13814.49,"text":"但是如果以目前我們要建構"},{"start":13814.49,"end":13816.49,"text":"我們自己國防戰略的部分"},{"start":13816.49,"end":13818.49,"text":"很大的部分還是要借重"},{"start":13818.49,"end":13821.49,"text":"在美國的相關新創研發公司"},{"start":13821.49,"end":13824.49,"text":"還有在烏克蘭戰場實證的那些機型"},{"start":13824.49,"end":13826.49,"text":"可能是我們迫切需要的"},{"start":13826.49,"end":13828.49,"text":"但是我這裡還是要提一下"},{"start":13828.49,"end":13832.49,"text":"在國民黨團他的主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":13832.49,"end":13835.49,"text":"然後他還有主辦機關是經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":13835.49,"end":13838.49,"text":"然後市設的採購研發"},{"start":13838.49,"end":13840.49,"text":"還要由主管機關"},{"start":13841.99,"end":13844.99,"text":"會同國防部及有關主管機關共同辦理"},{"start":13844.99,"end":13847.99,"text":"因為剛好今天因為這個立法體力"},{"start":13847.99,"end":13850.99,"text":"很罕見剛好我們法務部法制司"},{"start":13850.99,"end":13852.99,"text":"有參事在場"},{"start":13852.99,"end":13853.99,"text":"那麼我想請教一下"},{"start":13853.99,"end":13855.99,"text":"在中央法規標準法當中"},{"start":13855.99,"end":13857.99,"text":"這裡面所說的主管機關主辦機關"},{"start":13857.99,"end":13860.99,"text":"還有所謂的會同"},{"start":13862.25,"end":13864.25,"text":"有關主管機關共同辦理"},{"start":13864.25,"end":13867.25,"text":"這些在條例上是否有辦法執行"},{"start":13867.25,"end":13869.25,"text":"不然看得我很亂"},{"start":13869.25,"end":13872.25,"text":"到底主管機關主辦機關"},{"start":13872.25,"end":13875.25,"text":"還有有關主管機關共同辦理"},{"start":13875.25,"end":13877.25,"text":"這些名詞在我們條例上"},{"start":13877.25,"end":13880.25,"text":"是不是應該要有一個更清楚"},{"start":13880.25,"end":13881.25,"text":"依照過去的寫法"},{"start":13881.25,"end":13883.25,"text":"而不是說自己創造發明"},{"start":13883.25,"end":13885.25,"text":"我們未來無法執行的內容"},{"start":13886.11,"end":13888.11,"text":"法務部"},{"start":13887.63,"end":13888.63,"text":"更會遵守命令"},{"start":13889.37,"end":13892.37,"text":"那關於這一條的這個主管機關"},{"start":13892.37,"end":13894.37,"text":"或主辦機關的規定"},{"start":13894.37,"end":13896.37,"text":"這個在中央法規標準法"},{"start":13896.37,"end":13899.37,"text":"並沒有針對這個事項去做律定"},{"start":13899.37,"end":13901.37,"text":"那在"},{"start":13901.67,"end":13903.67,"text":"立法體力上"},{"start":13905.83,"end":13907.83,"text":"我想因為這個條例"},{"start":13907.83,"end":13911.83,"text":"涉及的這個事項分類類型很多"},{"start":13911.83,"end":13913.83,"text":"現在訂出一個主管機關"},{"start":13913.83,"end":13915.83,"text":"因為它呼應的是後面"},{"start":13915.83,"end":13917.83,"text":"後面有一些條文"},{"start":13917.83,"end":13920.83,"text":"它分別會規範由主管機關"},{"start":13920.83,"end":13923.83,"text":"就是授權主管機關去做一些事情"},{"start":13923.83,"end":13925.83,"text":"那所以我想"},{"start":13925.83,"end":13927.83,"text":"在這一條的這個分類"},{"start":13927.83,"end":13930.83,"text":"必須要搭配後面幾個"},{"start":13930.83,"end":13932.83,"text":"就是相關的這些機關"},{"start":13933.85,"end":13934.85,"text":"當他們去"},{"start":13934.85,"end":13936.85,"text":"在後面的對應條文上"},{"start":13936.85,"end":13938.85,"text":"去規範的這個事項"},{"start":13938.85,"end":13940.85,"text":"各個機關是不是認為妥適"},{"start":13940.85,"end":13941.85,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":13941.85,"end":13943.85,"text":"我是建議"},{"start":13943.85,"end":13946.85,"text":"由涉及到的這幾個主管機關"},{"start":13946.85,"end":13948.85,"text":"去盤點一下後面這些條文"},{"start":13949.97,"end":13952.97,"text":"去規範到他們職權的事項是不是妥適"},{"start":13952.97,"end":13954.97,"text":"這個部分我必須要尊重"},{"start":13954.97,"end":13956.97,"text":"其他的這個主管機關的意見"},{"start":13961.75,"end":13963.75,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":13965.67,"end":13966.67,"text":"你發言"},{"start":13966.67,"end":13968.67,"text":"我因為我一向都是表達說"},{"start":13968.67,"end":13970.67,"text":"要先尊重其他的版本"},{"start":13970.67,"end":13971.67,"text":"盡量的退讓"},{"start":13971.67,"end":13972.67,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":13972.67,"end":13974.67,"text":"我還是不得不對於民眾黨的版本呢"},{"start":13974.67,"end":13975.67,"text":"表示一些"},{"start":13975.67,"end":13978.67,"text":"實務上到底要怎麼去認定的問題"},{"start":13979.64,"end":13980.64,"text":"首先呢"},{"start":13980.64,"end":13982.64,"text":"他在這裡第三條"},{"start":13982.64,"end":13985.64,"text":"他說本條例之中央主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":13985.64,"end":13986.64,"text":"中央"},{"start":13987.28,"end":13991.28,"text":"然後涉及國防運用事項為國防部"},{"start":13991.28,"end":13993.28,"text":"還有地方主管機關"},{"start":13993.28,"end":13995.28,"text":"為直轄市縣市政府"},{"start":13995.45,"end":13997.45,"text":"這個大概也是很罕見的立法例"},{"start":13997.45,"end":13999.45,"text":"那後面的第二項的部分"},{"start":13999.45,"end":14001.45,"text":"那個就更特別了"},{"start":14001.45,"end":14003.45,"text":"本條例涉及飛航安全"},{"start":14003.45,"end":14004.45,"text":"空域管理"},{"start":14004.45,"end":14005.45,"text":"資通安全"},{"start":14005.45,"end":14006.45,"text":"頻率使用"},{"start":14006.45,"end":14007.45,"text":"政府採購"},{"start":14007.45,"end":14008.45,"text":"景鎮消防"},{"start":14008.45,"end":14009.45,"text":"災防"},{"start":14009.45,"end":14010.45,"text":"農業"},{"start":14010.45,"end":14011.45,"text":"海巡環境"},{"start":14011.45,"end":14013.45,"text":"關鍵基礎設施"},{"start":14013.45,"end":14015.45,"text":"地方場域及其他"},{"start":14015.45,"end":14017.45,"text":"目的事業事項者"},{"start":14017.45,"end":14020.45,"text":"由中央各目的事業主管機關"},{"start":14020.45,"end":14022.45,"text":"依權則辦理"},{"start":14023.36,"end":14025.36,"text":"關鍵就是依權則辦理"},{"start":14025.91,"end":14027.91,"text":"如果是各相關的目的事業主管機關"},{"start":14027.91,"end":14029.91,"text":"依權則辦理根本不用寫嘛"},{"start":14029.91,"end":14031.91,"text":"因為本來我們所有的主管機關"},{"start":14031.91,"end":14033.91,"text":"他所處理的事項"},{"start":14033.91,"end":14035.91,"text":"他不可能全部都在該"},{"start":14035.91,"end":14037.91,"text":"部會的含色範圍"},{"start":14037.91,"end":14039.91,"text":"難免有一些跑到內政部啦"},{"start":14039.91,"end":14041.91,"text":"跑到NCC啦"},{"start":14041.91,"end":14043.91,"text":"跑到速發部啦"},{"start":14043.91,"end":14045.91,"text":"跑到公共工程委員會啊"},{"start":14045.91,"end":14047.91,"text":"公平委也會有啊"},{"start":14047.91,"end":14048.91,"text":"農業部也會有啊"},{"start":14048.91,"end":14049.91,"text":"海委會也會有啊"},{"start":14049.91,"end":14051.91,"text":"那如果照這樣的體力條件"},{"start":14051.91,"end":14053.91,"text":"我們每條的一個主管機關"},{"start":14053.91,"end":14055.91,"text":"後面都要把這些行不當當"},{"start":14055.91,"end":14057.91,"text":"行政院的一級機關"},{"start":14057.91,"end":14059.91,"text":"二級機關通通寫上去"},{"start":14061.5,"end":14063.5,"text":"難道是這樣子寫法嗎"},{"start":14063.5,"end":14065.5,"text":"所以我是想今天列席的部會也很多"},{"start":14065.5,"end":14067.5,"text":"可能這些機關都還沒列席咧"},{"start":14067.5,"end":14069.5,"text":"我們來看一下這裡面今天"},{"start":14069.5,"end":14071.5,"text":"有NCC來嗎"},{"start":14071.5,"end":14073.5,"text":"這裡面講到說頻率的使用"},{"start":14073.5,"end":14075.5,"text":"有NCC嗎"},{"start":14075.5,"end":14077.5,"text":"這裡面呢關於採購的部分"},{"start":14077.5,"end":14079.5,"text":"我有看到工程會"},{"start":14079.5,"end":14081.5,"text":"那工程會要說明一下嗎"},{"start":14081.5,"end":14083.5,"text":"災防的部分今天內政部"},{"start":14083.5,"end":14085.5,"text":"消防署有來嗎"},{"start":14085.05,"end":14087.05,"text":"那我們警政的部分警政署有來嗎"},{"start":14087.05,"end":14089.05,"text":"那農業部沒有看到啊"},{"start":14089.05,"end":14091.05,"text":"海委會沒看到啊環境部沒看到啊"},{"start":14091.05,"end":14093.05,"text":"所以說這個條文"},{"start":14093.05,"end":14095.05,"text":"如果今天要審"},{"start":14095.67,"end":14097.67,"text":"真的要按照我們院會的交辦來審"},{"start":14097.67,"end":14101.67,"text":"那各版本他所涉及到處到的內容的業務機關"},{"start":14101.67,"end":14105.67,"text":"都要來讓我們了解一下未來能不能執行啊"},{"start":14105.67,"end":14107.67,"text":"所以我常常剛剛一直聽到說"},{"start":14107.67,"end":14109.67,"text":"很多委員說這個很重要這個很重要"},{"start":14109.67,"end":14111.67,"text":"要趕快趕快不能耽誤"},{"start":14113.02,"end":14115.02,"text":"這跟我們認真的把法律"},{"start":14116.22,"end":14118.22,"text":"定好是有密切的關係的"},{"start":14118.22,"end":14120.22,"text":"你不會說你急著要品質都不顧吧"},{"start":14120.22,"end":14122.22,"text":"未來會不會致害難民都不顧吧"},{"start":14122.22,"end":14124.22,"text":"我們是立法院我們是立法委員"},{"start":14124.22,"end":14126.22,"text":"我們在審這些相關的法律案的時候"},{"start":14126.22,"end":14128.22,"text":"我們有既往的成立可以參考"},{"start":14130.8,"end":14132.8,"text":"這樣的寫法是否妥適"},{"start":14132.8,"end":14134.8,"text":"我不能說不妥適只是我覺得怪怪的"},{"start":14134.8,"end":14138.8,"text":"那是不是相關的機關都應該在這裡說明一下"},{"start":14138.8,"end":14140.8,"text":"未來如果按照民主黨團的第三條通過之後"},{"start":14140.8,"end":14142.8,"text":"地方機關怎麼主管"},{"start":14142.8,"end":14145.8,"text":"那試射的那些非常安全等等項目"},{"start":14145.8,"end":14147.8,"text":"交通部民航局要不要來講"},{"start":14148.6,"end":14150.6,"text":"所以"},{"start":14149.57,"end":14151.57,"text":"主席要建議主席"},{"start":14151.57,"end":14153.57,"text":"今天不是說只要有意見"},{"start":14153.57,"end":14155.57,"text":"我們就保留"},{"start":14155.41,"end":14158.41,"text":"應該要問清楚你們當時設計這個條款"},{"start":14158.41,"end":14161.41,"text":"你們的思考未來在運作上"},{"start":14161.41,"end":14163.41,"text":"是否能夠有效運作"},{"start":14163.41,"end":14165.41,"text":"那如果不寫也可以那就不要寫"},{"start":14165.41,"end":14167.41,"text":"因為所有的作用法"},{"start":14167.41,"end":14170.41,"text":"他都會除了主管機關以外"},{"start":14170.41,"end":14172.41,"text":"可能跟其他法律有進合的"},{"start":14172.41,"end":14175.41,"text":"或者業務內容有相關相涉的"},{"start":14175.41,"end":14177.41,"text":"那這些而且最好玩的是什麼"},{"start":14177.41,"end":14179.41,"text":"你有沒有寫依權責處理"},{"start":14179.47,"end":14181.47,"text":"這五個字在行政機關"},{"start":14181.47,"end":14184.47,"text":"叫做最好用請本於權責辦理"},{"start":14184.47,"end":14186.47,"text":"我們只要在地方政府服務的時候看到說"},{"start":14186.93,"end":14188.93,"text":"問了半天最後一句話請本於權責辦理"},{"start":14188.93,"end":14189.93,"text":"那我就白問了嘛"},{"start":14189.93,"end":14191.93,"text":"你叫我本於權責我就自己辦理嘛"},{"start":14191.93,"end":14194.93,"text":"哪需要再回到條文裡面去跟你會同共同"},{"start":14195.18,"end":14198.18,"text":"是不是請主席問一下是不是這些機關呢"},{"start":14199.16,"end":14202.16,"text":"民眾黨黨團的這些內容要相關機關來回應一下"},{"start":14205.46,"end":14206.46,"text":"不能寫那麼多"},{"start":14206.96,"end":14209.96,"text":"趙薇很能問喔"},{"start":14212.39,"end":14213.39,"text":"趙薇很能問喔"},{"start":14213.39,"end":14216.39,"text":"我們不是立法局啦我們是立法院啦"},{"start":14216.85,"end":14218.85,"text":"我們不是立法局啦"},{"start":14218.85,"end":14220.85,"text":"我們是一次做主我們"},{"start":14221.64,"end":14223.64,"text":"怎麼會請他們來"},{"start":14223.68,"end":14225.68,"text":"好"},{"start":14225.89,"end":14231.89,"text":"我想說叫主席去問各機關我覺得我們今天在審查法案"},{"start":14231.89,"end":14236.89,"text":"尊重每一位委員所提出的意見以及行政部門"},{"start":14236.89,"end":14239.89,"text":"不行我們還是要做協商"},{"start":14239.89,"end":14245.89,"text":"這是我們在立法的過程當中的一個非常必要的程序"},{"start":14245.89,"end":14249.89,"text":"我剛才說了我們大家都認為無人機非常的重要"},{"start":14250.89,"end":14256.89,"text":"所以我們就今天現在是討論到第二條"},{"start":14256.89,"end":14261.89,"text":"那主管機關單位行政部門以及各政黨的委員"},{"start":14261.89,"end":14266.89,"text":"都有提出了說明了各自的意見是怎麼樣"},{"start":14266.89,"end":14270.89,"text":"那要請主席來做採事謝謝"},{"start":14271.52,"end":14274.52,"text":"所以我剛就說行政院他們就是國防部嘛"},{"start":14274.52,"end":14279.52,"text":"那國民黨團就是經濟部主管機關主辦當然是主經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":14279.52,"end":14285.52,"text":"那我們民眾黨團就是參考這個文化資產的這個保存法的第四條"},{"start":14285.52,"end":14287.52,"text":"他變了兩個主管機關嘛"},{"start":14288.65,"end":14291.65,"text":"後面的話你如果說我們這個東西的話都有問過"},{"start":14291.65,"end":14294.65,"text":"因為在後面的話你有交通局民航法規那些嘛"},{"start":14294.65,"end":14296.65,"text":"因為是考慮到你的是非的場域等等"},{"start":14296.65,"end":14298.65,"text":"所以在後面會有"},{"start":14299.89,"end":14302.89,"text":"那如果像王定宇委員的話也是一樣啊"},{"start":14302.89,"end":14304.89,"text":"就是中央主管機關是經濟部嘛"},{"start":14304.89,"end":14305.89,"text":"國防軍是國防部嘛"},{"start":14305.89,"end":14307.89,"text":"所以這次也是兩個主管機關嘛"},{"start":14307.89,"end":14310.89,"text":"就只有行政院是國防部而已就這樣子啦"},{"start":14312.65,"end":14315.65,"text":"來那麼今天因為我看到飛航安全空運管理"},{"start":14315.65,"end":14317.65,"text":"有找交通部有找民航局"},{"start":14317.65,"end":14321.65,"text":"我看到了頻率使用跟資通安全"},{"start":14321.65,"end":14323.65,"text":"看起來是一個觸發"},{"start":14323.65,"end":14327.65,"text":"這個就請NCC交通部民航局訂資就可以了"},{"start":14327.65,"end":14329.65,"text":"那訂資NCC在哪裡"},{"start":14329.65,"end":14331.65,"text":"要不要聽一聽看這個部分怎麼處理"},{"start":14331.65,"end":14334.65,"text":"NCC有沒有必要列進來管頻率使用"},{"start":14334.65,"end":14336.65,"text":"你說到政府採購今天有工程會"},{"start":14336.65,"end":14338.65,"text":"我們的警政消防內政部有沒有人在場"},{"start":14339.65,"end":14341.65,"text":"農業農業"},{"start":14341.65,"end":14343.65,"text":"喔我們就還沒通過請他來做"},{"start":14343.65,"end":14345.65,"text":"不是我們在立法涉及到其他的"},{"start":14345.65,"end":14348.65,"text":"部會的時候你難道不請部會來保持意見嗎"},{"start":14348.65,"end":14350.65,"text":"我們就事先徵詢"},{"start":14350.65,"end":14352.65,"text":"這邊才有議案"},{"start":14352.65,"end":14355.65,"text":"你並沒有支持民眾黨團的條文"},{"start":14355.65,"end":14358.65,"text":"如果你是支持的話你就可以問他們"},{"start":14358.65,"end":14360.65,"text":"你又不支持"},{"start":14360.65,"end":14362.65,"text":"你又不支持"},{"start":14362.65,"end":14364.65,"text":"你不支持我的"},{"start":14364.65,"end":14366.65,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":14366.83,"end":14368.83,"text":"賴氏保委員的提案"},{"start":14370.11,"end":14374.11,"text":"賴氏保委員的提案他有兩個提案"},{"start":14374.11,"end":14378.11,"text":"他有先提後面等於是在修正前面的"},{"start":14378.11,"end":14380.11,"text":"基本上就是這樣"},{"start":14380.11,"end":14382.11,"text":"對不對"},{"start":14382.11,"end":14384.11,"text":"我們就先保留好不好"},{"start":14384.11,"end":14386.11,"text":"我再提第二個"},{"start":14386.11,"end":14388.11,"text":"基本上就是我在修正前面"},{"start":14388.11,"end":14391.11,"text":"中委員有意見的部分以及他提到的相關的疑問的部分"},{"start":14391.11,"end":14395.11,"text":"是不是請相關部會在協商前"},{"start":14395.11,"end":14397.11,"text":"就是在黨團協商前"},{"start":14397.11,"end":14402.11,"text":"那就是說把相關的報告或者是相關疑慮的部分"},{"start":14402.11,"end":14406.11,"text":"能夠交給委員會每個委員好不好"},{"start":14406.11,"end":14408.11,"text":"就是聯席委員會的每個委員"},{"start":14408.11,"end":14411.11,"text":"或者是交到那個就是委員會"},{"start":14411.11,"end":14413.11,"text":"他自己提了都不支持"},{"start":14413.11,"end":14415.11,"text":"所以要支持賴氏保"},{"start":14415.11,"end":14418.11,"text":"所以我們第二條按照全案都保留"},{"start":14424.83,"end":14426.83,"text":"我們進到第三條根據願板這邊"},{"start":14426.83,"end":14428.83,"text":"下一頁就是"},{"start":14434.28,"end":14436.28,"text":"到了名詞定義這邊了"},{"start":14436.28,"end":14438.28,"text":"好"},{"start":14439.6,"end":14441.6,"text":"請進行"},{"start":14453.42,"end":14455.42,"text":"跟委員會報告"},{"start":14455.42,"end":14458.42,"text":"我想行政院版本的第三條"},{"start":14458.42,"end":14460.42,"text":"就是針對這個"},{"start":14460.42,"end":14462.42,"text":"國安部的這個需求"},{"start":14462.42,"end":14464.42,"text":"他們要針對這個"},{"start":14464.42,"end":14466.42,"text":"第四條所"},{"start":14466.55,"end":14468.55,"text":"這個"},{"start":14468.55,"end":14470.55,"text":"採購的這些項目"},{"start":14470.55,"end":14472.55,"text":"做一些"},{"start":14472.55,"end":14474.55,"text":"做一些這個"},{"start":14474.55,"end":14476.55,"text":"律定"},{"start":14476.55,"end":14478.55,"text":"其他委員的版本的部分"},{"start":14478.55,"end":14480.55,"text":"我們是我們的看法是說"},{"start":14480.55,"end":14482.55,"text":"因為"},{"start":14481.8,"end":14483.8,"text":"這個無人載具"},{"start":14483.49,"end":14485.49,"text":"這個類型非常多"},{"start":14485.49,"end":14487.49,"text":"包括地面"},{"start":14487.49,"end":14489.49,"text":"這個空中的還有"},{"start":14489.49,"end":14491.49,"text":"這個水下水面的"},{"start":14491.49,"end":14493.49,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":14493.49,"end":14495.49,"text":"有很多的這些無人載具的用途"},{"start":14495.49,"end":14497.49,"text":"那其實這裡面"},{"start":14497.49,"end":14499.49,"text":"涉及到相關的"},{"start":14499.49,"end":14501.49,"text":"這些法規包括民用航空法"},{"start":14501.49,"end":14503.49,"text":"傳播法以及其他目的"},{"start":14503.49,"end":14505.49,"text":"事業主管機關的這個法規"},{"start":14505.49,"end":14507.49,"text":"所以他相關的這些零組件"},{"start":14507.49,"end":14509.49,"text":"控制軟體等等"},{"start":14509.49,"end":14511.49,"text":"這些推動事項"},{"start":14511.49,"end":14513.49,"text":"我們在統籌型計畫裡面"},{"start":14513.49,"end":14515.49,"text":"也都已經有納進來了"},{"start":14515.49,"end":14517.49,"text":"那相關的這些資安檢測"},{"start":14517.49,"end":14519.49,"text":"或認證"},{"start":14519.49,"end":14521.49,"text":"還有這個無人機的"},{"start":14521.49,"end":14523.49,"text":"遙控無人機的這個採購"},{"start":14523.49,"end":14525.49,"text":"這個費用的這個"},{"start":14525.49,"end":14527.49,"text":"認定的部分目前"},{"start":14527.49,"end":14529.49,"text":"包括數位部啦"},{"start":14529.49,"end":14531.49,"text":"這個工程會也都有相關的"},{"start":14531.49,"end":14533.49,"text":"一些規定"},{"start":14533.49,"end":14535.49,"text":"另外就是說這個"},{"start":14535.49,"end":14537.49,"text":"計轉跟工業合作的部分"},{"start":14537.49,"end":14539.49,"text":"在國防法也有相關的"},{"start":14539.49,"end":14541.49,"text":"規範"},{"start":14541.49,"end":14543.49,"text":"所以我們是建立"},{"start":14543.49,"end":14545.49,"text":"還是採行這個行政委的這個版本"},{"start":14545.49,"end":14547.49,"text":"然後聚焦在這個機關"},{"start":14547.49,"end":14549.49,"text":"的一個"},{"start":14549.49,"end":14551.49,"text":"還有那個國防部的這個裝備"},{"start":14551.49,"end":14553.49,"text":"跟資源系統的這個採購"},{"start":14553.49,"end":14555.49,"text":"以上"},{"start":14555.73,"end":14557.73,"text":"好 邱毅委員"},{"start":14557.73,"end":14559.73,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":14559.73,"end":14561.73,"text":"國防部等一下"},{"start":14563.97,"end":14565.97,"text":"是 主席 各位委員 我想"},{"start":14565.97,"end":14567.97,"text":"國防的採購一定要由國防部"},{"start":14567.97,"end":14569.97,"text":"來主管機關"},{"start":14569.97,"end":14571.97,"text":"那麼然後接下來"},{"start":14571.97,"end":14573.97,"text":"就是我們這一條例所講的"},{"start":14573.97,"end":14575.97,"text":"這個國防自主無人採討的採購"},{"start":14576.72,"end":14578.72,"text":"我們限定的範圍"},{"start":14578.72,"end":14580.72,"text":"就是主管機關跟所屬機關"},{"start":14580.72,"end":14582.72,"text":"構的部隊辦理"},{"start":14582.72,"end":14584.72,"text":"來辦理這個行政合定"},{"start":14584.72,"end":14586.72,"text":"採購我們第四條所訂"},{"start":14586.72,"end":14588.72,"text":"項目的相關的主要裝備系統"},{"start":14588.72,"end":14590.72,"text":"跟他的資源系統獲得產自"},{"start":14590.72,"end":14592.72,"text":"維修工程及訓練"},{"start":14592.72,"end":14594.72,"text":"所以我想無論如果不以由"},{"start":14594.72,"end":14596.72,"text":"經濟部來主辦或者是"},{"start":14596.72,"end":14598.72,"text":"不管是經濟部"},{"start":14598.72,"end":14600.72,"text":"主管或經濟部來會同"},{"start":14600.72,"end":14602.72,"text":"這個國防部來辦理"},{"start":14602.72,"end":14604.72,"text":"所以我想這個都不適宜的"},{"start":14604.72,"end":14606.72,"text":"那我們的國防自主的"},{"start":14606.72,"end":14608.72,"text":"無人採討的採購"},{"start":14608.72,"end":14610.72,"text":"因為既然是特別條例"},{"start":14610.72,"end":14612.72,"text":"所以採購的標的要明確"},{"start":14612.72,"end":14614.72,"text":"所以會在第四條裡面明定採購的項目"},{"start":14614.72,"end":14616.72,"text":"那至於國民黨黨團的這個"},{"start":14616.72,"end":14618.72,"text":"相關的定義"},{"start":14618.72,"end":14620.72,"text":"特別是就無人採討的部分"},{"start":14620.72,"end":14622.72,"text":"他範圍拉了非常的廣"},{"start":14622.72,"end":14624.72,"text":"幾乎將所有不管是無人機"},{"start":14624.72,"end":14626.72,"text":"無人艇"},{"start":14626.72,"end":14628.72,"text":"還有地面的無人採討"},{"start":14628.72,"end":14630.72,"text":"等等所有都包含在這裡面"},{"start":14630.72,"end":14632.72,"text":"那這些包含這裡面"},{"start":14632.72,"end":14634.72,"text":"都會每一個具體的採購項目"},{"start":14634.72,"end":14636.72,"text":"事實上都要提出具體的"},{"start":14636.72,"end":14638.72,"text":"預算案 不管是特別預算案"},{"start":14638.72,"end":14640.72,"text":"或年度預算案"},{"start":14640.72,"end":14642.72,"text":"這個都是要基於我們國防部本身的"},{"start":14642.72,"end":14644.72,"text":"作戰需求我們的專業"},{"start":14644.72,"end":14646.72,"text":"然後來提出相關的這個具體的"},{"start":14646.72,"end":14648.72,"text":"這個"},{"start":14648.72,"end":14650.72,"text":"這個採購的"},{"start":14650.72,"end":14652.72,"text":"我們建案然後再提出我們的"},{"start":14652.72,"end":14654.72,"text":"採購計畫"},{"start":14654.72,"end":14656.72,"text":"那麼國民黨黨團他將所有的無人"},{"start":14656.72,"end":14658.72,"text":"這個載具都放進來"},{"start":14658.72,"end":14660.72,"text":"但事實上後面他並沒有明確的"},{"start":14660.72,"end":14662.72,"text":"說明是哪些的這個"},{"start":14664.34,"end":14666.34,"text":"呃"},{"start":14666.01,"end":14668.01,"text":"具體的這個採購的這個項目"},{"start":14668.01,"end":14670.01,"text":"所以我想這樣子的一個立法的"},{"start":14670.01,"end":14672.01,"text":"形式"},{"start":14672.01,"end":14674.01,"text":"會侵犯到我們"},{"start":14674.01,"end":14676.01,"text":"就基於我們國防"},{"start":14677.99,"end":14679.99,"text":"所了解的國防需求"},{"start":14679.99,"end":14681.99,"text":"跟我們國防部本身的"},{"start":14681.99,"end":14683.99,"text":"專業所要訂出來的採購"},{"start":14683.99,"end":14685.99,"text":"的具體的項目"},{"start":14685.99,"end":14687.99,"text":"所以我還是懇請"},{"start":14687.85,"end":14689.85,"text":"大員能夠支持"},{"start":14689.85,"end":14691.85,"text":"就是我們"},{"start":14691.68,"end":14693.68,"text":"非常容易讓明瞭的這個"},{"start":14693.68,"end":14695.68,"text":"這個版本"},{"start":14697.48,"end":14699.48,"text":"特別是有關第二條跟第三條"},{"start":14701.89,"end":14703.89,"text":"好謝謝國防部在秋運委員"},{"start":14705.9,"end":14707.9,"text":"謝謝主席我剛其實要表達的就是"},{"start":14707.9,"end":14709.9,"text":"這個第三條"},{"start":14709.9,"end":14711.9,"text":"談到國防採購的部分"},{"start":14711.9,"end":14713.9,"text":"主席剛剛應該就是要請國防部長"},{"start":14713.9,"end":14715.9,"text":"出來"},{"start":14715.77,"end":14717.77,"text":"發言才對啊"},{"start":14717.77,"end":14719.77,"text":"怎麼會直接就請經濟部勒"},{"start":14719.77,"end":14721.77,"text":"就是我們一直在談這個邏輯錯亂"},{"start":14721.77,"end":14723.77,"text":"國防的採購"},{"start":14723.77,"end":14725.77,"text":"國防的需求當然一定是國防部"},{"start":14725.77,"end":14727.77,"text":"最清楚最了解"},{"start":14727.77,"end":14729.77,"text":"怎麼會是經濟部出來說明"},{"start":14731.28,"end":14733.28,"text":"那經濟部根本不知道你到底要採購什麼東西"},{"start":14733.28,"end":14735.28,"text":"到底哪些是國防真正有需要的"},{"start":14735.28,"end":14737.28,"text":"好"},{"start":14737.28,"end":14739.28,"text":"那接下來談到第三條"},{"start":14739.28,"end":14741.28,"text":"國防部謝謝部長剛剛的"},{"start":14741.28,"end":14743.28,"text":"國防部部長的說明喔"},{"start":14743.28,"end":14745.28,"text":"但是其實各個版本"},{"start":14745.28,"end":14747.28,"text":"談到的很多是商規"},{"start":14747.28,"end":14749.28,"text":"很多各個各種"},{"start":14749.28,"end":14751.28,"text":"不同的無人載具"},{"start":14751.75,"end":14753.75,"text":"這個在產業發展條例裡頭"},{"start":14753.75,"end":14755.75,"text":"我們可以把它明定的非常清楚"},{"start":14755.75,"end":14757.75,"text":"這個我也同意"},{"start":14757.75,"end":14759.75,"text":"但是在採購的部分上面"},{"start":14759.75,"end":14761.75,"text":"你把商規的部分"},{"start":14761.75,"end":14763.75,"text":"通通都把它放進去"},{"start":14763.75,"end":14765.75,"text":"那甚至民眾黨黨團的提案"},{"start":14765.75,"end":14767.75,"text":"他只有談到無人機"},{"start":14768.41,"end":14770.41,"text":"他只有天上飛的才有"},{"start":14770.41,"end":14772.41,"text":"那水面"},{"start":14772.41,"end":14774.41,"text":"水面的水面底下的"},{"start":14774.41,"end":14776.41,"text":"其他的自殺小艇等等"},{"start":14777.7,"end":14781.7,"text":"沒有在這個大的無人載具的範圍裡面喔"},{"start":14781.7,"end":14783.7,"text":"所以"},{"start":14784.02,"end":14786.02,"text":"我還是不知道到底要怎麼樣去審這個"},{"start":14786.02,"end":14788.02,"text":"這個條例啦"},{"start":14788.02,"end":14790.02,"text":"好那我支持"},{"start":14790.02,"end":14792.02,"text":"第三條我是支持行政院的"},{"start":14792.02,"end":14794.02,"text":"版本喔這個還是要回到"},{"start":14794.02,"end":14796.02,"text":"國防部對於我們的"},{"start":14796.02,"end":14798.02,"text":"國防需求戰略考量"},{"start":14798.02,"end":14800.02,"text":"的所有的採購案還是"},{"start":14800.02,"end":14802.02,"text":"應該回到國防部主管謝謝"},{"start":14804.01,"end":14806.01,"text":"好"},{"start":14806.98,"end":14810.98,"text":"這個我要對國民黨團跟民眾黨團講個話啦"},{"start":14810.98,"end":14812.98,"text":"他是先定義啦"},{"start":14813.21,"end":14815.21,"text":"先定義到底是什麼"},{"start":14815.21,"end":14817.21,"text":"你們到底有包括哪些東西"},{"start":14817.63,"end":14821.63,"text":"所以國民黨團講的是無人載具軍用商規軍民共用"},{"start":14823.08,"end":14825.08,"text":"國產化的比例等等的喔"},{"start":14825.08,"end":14827.08,"text":"民眾黨基本上來講"},{"start":14827.08,"end":14829.08,"text":"也是把它定義"},{"start":14829.08,"end":14831.08,"text":"這個時候我怎麼沒有聽到說"},{"start":14831.08,"end":14833.08,"text":"民進黨委員要支持我的"},{"start":14833.08,"end":14835.08,"text":"我的版本很好啊"},{"start":14835.08,"end":14837.08,"text":"前面有那個"},{"start":14837.08,"end":14839.08,"text":"第四條的"},{"start":14839.08,"end":14841.08,"text":"產業發展條例"},{"start":14841.08,"end":14843.08,"text":"我定義的很清楚全部包括進來"},{"start":14843.08,"end":14845.08,"text":"你挑的"},{"start":14845.08,"end":14847.08,"text":"然後這個"},{"start":14847.08,"end":14849.08,"text":"這個特別條例裡面呢"},{"start":14849.07,"end":14851.07,"text":"我裡面特別提的是"},{"start":14851.36,"end":14853.36,"text":"前向最後"},{"start":14853.36,"end":14855.36,"text":"前向採購與美國或"},{"start":14855.36,"end":14857.36,"text":"與其他國家"},{"start":14857.36,"end":14859.36,"text":"所產製或授權的裝備為止"},{"start":14860.61,"end":14862.61,"text":"而且每一個採購案"},{"start":14862.61,"end":14864.61,"text":"要附加技術輸出及"},{"start":14864.61,"end":14866.61,"text":"工業合作條件"},{"start":14867.28,"end":14869.28,"text":"工業合作就是offset"},{"start":14869.29,"end":14871.29,"text":"所以"},{"start":14871.29,"end":14873.29,"text":"我是認為我的完成"},{"start":14873.29,"end":14875.29,"text":"有名詞定義的基本上"},{"start":14875.29,"end":14877.29,"text":"就跟國民黨團"},{"start":14877.29,"end":14879.29,"text":"民進黨團的基本上是接近的"},{"start":14879.29,"end":14881.29,"text":"然後呢這裡面來講"},{"start":14881.29,"end":14883.29,"text":"要採購但是呢注意看喔"},{"start":14883.29,"end":14885.29,"text":"行政院版本跟我的版本"},{"start":14885.29,"end":14887.29,"text":"最大不一樣的是什麼"},{"start":14887.29,"end":14889.29,"text":"行政院版本就是國內採購"},{"start":14890.45,"end":14892.45,"text":"國內採購"},{"start":14892.64,"end":14894.64,"text":"我的版本是什麼是upgrade"},{"start":14894.64,"end":14896.64,"text":"是高階的"},{"start":14896.64,"end":14898.64,"text":"我高階才要跟國外採購"},{"start":14898.64,"end":14900.64,"text":"但是行政院版本不是啦"},{"start":14900.64,"end":14902.64,"text":"他是低階的啦"},{"start":14902.19,"end":14904.19,"text":"現在有喔你注意看"},{"start":14904.19,"end":14906.19,"text":"他就是這樣子"},{"start":14905.63,"end":14907.63,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":14907.63,"end":14909.63,"text":"我要跟美國買的就是高階嘛"},{"start":14909.63,"end":14911.63,"text":"這裡面就是DCS了"},{"start":14911.63,"end":14913.63,"text":"這裡面是商購"},{"start":14913.63,"end":14915.63,"text":"或者軍購啦"},{"start":14915.63,"end":14917.63,"text":"我裡面採購他是軍購或是商購的"},{"start":14917.63,"end":14919.63,"text":"你直接把國內的廠商列為低階"},{"start":14919.63,"end":14921.63,"text":"我看國內的廠商會起來跟你抗議喔"},{"start":14921.63,"end":14923.63,"text":"沒關係啦這個東西相對美國"},{"start":14923.63,"end":14925.63,"text":"當然我們低階嘛"},{"start":14925.63,"end":14927.63,"text":"當然是啊怎麼不是"},{"start":14927.63,"end":14929.63,"text":"我已經講了我剛才"},{"start":14929.63,"end":14931.63,"text":"提案說明已經講了"},{"start":14931.63,"end":14933.63,"text":"最早說明已經講了現在"},{"start":14933.63,"end":14935.63,"text":"國內的顧富廠買21萬架"},{"start":14935.63,"end":14937.63,"text":"裡面只有2000架"},{"start":14937.63,"end":14939.63,"text":"是高階其他都是低階啊"},{"start":14939.63,"end":14941.63,"text":"那所謂低階高階是什麼定義"},{"start":14941.63,"end":14943.63,"text":"當然有不同的"},{"start":14943.63,"end":14945.63,"text":"不同的定義"},{"start":14944.72,"end":14946.72,"text":"我Google在Google"},{"start":14946.72,"end":14948.72,"text":"我再去找全世界"},{"start":14948.72,"end":14950.72,"text":"現在第一名第二名第三名的"},{"start":14950.72,"end":14952.72,"text":"無人機的要講他"},{"start":14952.72,"end":14954.72,"text":"一個一個檔次的話"},{"start":14954.72,"end":14956.72,"text":"最高就是這個美國以色列"},{"start":14956.72,"end":14958.72,"text":"烏克蘭啊這大家都很清楚嘛"},{"start":14958.72,"end":14960.72,"text":"那裡面來講的話"},{"start":14960.72,"end":14962.72,"text":"他們都有實證經驗我們很多地方可以用"},{"start":14962.72,"end":14964.72,"text":"那這一部分來講"},{"start":14964.72,"end":14966.72,"text":"才是我們真的需要採購的"},{"start":14966.72,"end":14968.72,"text":"而"},{"start":14967.8,"end":14969.8,"text":"而不是"},{"start":14969.8,"end":14971.8,"text":"當然你低階啦國內廠商他們很高興"},{"start":14971.8,"end":14973.8,"text":"但是老實講你那邊"},{"start":14973.8,"end":14975.8,"text":"只是讓國內"},{"start":14975.8,"end":14977.8,"text":"廠商是針對他"},{"start":14977.8,"end":14979.8,"text":"謹上聽話"},{"start":14979.8,"end":14981.8,"text":"但是真的我們需要的是"},{"start":14981.8,"end":14983.8,"text":"我們需要落實"},{"start":14983.8,"end":14985.8,"text":"我們的無人機產業的技術"},{"start":14985.8,"end":14987.8,"text":"紮根我們歡迎國外的"},{"start":14987.8,"end":14989.8,"text":"無人機的海岸的廠商"},{"start":14989.8,"end":14991.8,"text":"來台灣投資"},{"start":14991.17,"end":14993.17,"text":"我們現在全世界排名他排第15名"},{"start":14993.17,"end":14995.17,"text":"左右15到20名"},{"start":14995.17,"end":14997.17,"text":"左右我們希望能夠排到"},{"start":14997.17,"end":14999.17,"text":"前5名我們希望創造"},{"start":14999.17,"end":15001.17,"text":"大家都想說創造第二座的"},{"start":15001.17,"end":15003.17,"text":"富國深山一定要往"},{"start":15003.17,"end":15005.17,"text":"技術紮根技術升級"},{"start":15005.17,"end":15007.17,"text":"來我走這是我的提案跟"},{"start":15007.17,"end":15009.17,"text":"行政院很大不一樣的"},{"start":15009.17,"end":15011.17,"text":"地方嘛這很清楚看得到"},{"start":15011.17,"end":15013.17,"text":"行政院版本第三項"},{"start":15013.17,"end":15015.17,"text":"第三條第四條第四條"},{"start":15015.17,"end":15017.17,"text":"講的他要買的這幾項"},{"start":15017.17,"end":15019.17,"text":"局限制在"},{"start":15019.17,"end":15021.17,"text":"這個這個濱海的監測"},{"start":15021.17,"end":15023.17,"text":"偵測型的無人機"},{"start":15023.17,"end":15025.17,"text":"濱海的攻擊型無人機"},{"start":15025.17,"end":15027.17,"text":"小型自殺"},{"start":15027.02,"end":15029.02,"text":"無人機"},{"start":15028.32,"end":15030.32,"text":"這個顧部長在前幾天"},{"start":15030.32,"end":15032.32,"text":"接受我的質詢的時候他還講"},{"start":15032.32,"end":15034.32,"text":"無人機大概就是"},{"start":15034.32,"end":15036.32,"text":"21萬架無人艇大概"},{"start":15036.32,"end":15038.32,"text":"上千架"},{"start":15037.78,"end":15039.78,"text":"上千台"},{"start":15039.78,"end":15041.78,"text":"就講得很清楚"},{"start":15041.02,"end":15043.02,"text":"就沒有了出這個字彙就沒有了"},{"start":15043.02,"end":15045.02,"text":"而且無人艇老實講現在"},{"start":15045.02,"end":15047.02,"text":"第一台都還沒出來啊"},{"start":15047.02,"end":15049.02,"text":"你現在畫一個餅在那裡我們都很清楚"},{"start":15049.02,"end":15051.02,"text":"中科技無人艇還沒有嘛"},{"start":15051.02,"end":15053.02,"text":"一台也沒有啊誰有美國有啊"},{"start":15053.02,"end":15055.02,"text":"所以我買的就是"},{"start":15055.02,"end":15057.02,"text":"要跟這個地方買"},{"start":15057.02,"end":15059.02,"text":"然後技術輿轉"},{"start":15059.02,"end":15061.02,"text":"就是歡迎你們說"},{"start":15061.02,"end":15063.02,"text":"繼續支持第三條支持賴世報"},{"start":15063.02,"end":15065.02,"text":"版本"},{"start":15065.02,"end":15067.02,"text":"好那我們主持賴世報版本主持賴世報"},{"start":15067.02,"end":15069.02,"text":"你要堅持喔"},{"start":15069.02,"end":15071.02,"text":"你不要叫我們支持你"},{"start":15071.02,"end":15073.02,"text":"然後你自己又退說"},{"start":15073.02,"end":15075.02,"text":"如果我們支持賴世報委員的第三條"},{"start":15075.02,"end":15077.02,"text":"請賴委員你自己堅持"},{"start":15077.02,"end":15079.02,"text":"你要自己能夠支持你自己的版本啊"},{"start":15079.02,"end":15081.02,"text":"我今天坐在這裡不是講"},{"start":15081.02,"end":15083.02,"text":"要支持我的版本嗎"},{"start":15083.02,"end":15085.02,"text":"從條文名稱到現在"},{"start":15085.02,"end":15087.02,"text":"第三條你都沒有一條支持你自己的版本啊"},{"start":15087.02,"end":15089.02,"text":"你第三條我支持你"},{"start":15089.02,"end":15091.02,"text":"我支持我的版本"},{"start":15091.02,"end":15093.02,"text":"其他的人不容易見啊"},{"start":15093.02,"end":15095.02,"text":"你從頭到尾都不敢支持你"},{"start":15095.02,"end":15097.02,"text":"自己的版本"},{"start":15097.02,"end":15099.02,"text":"我一直講"},{"start":15099.02,"end":15101.02,"text":"我的兩個條文我都支持"},{"start":15101.02,"end":15103.02,"text":"其他人不容易見"},{"start":15103.02,"end":15105.02,"text":"今天才有人請發言"},{"start":15106.35,"end":15108.35,"text":"賴委員有兩個版本"},{"start":15108.35,"end":15110.35,"text":"沒有陳冠廷"},{"start":15110.35,"end":15112.35,"text":"在解釋上就是後面的"},{"start":15112.35,"end":15114.35,"text":"又以前面的"},{"start":15114.35,"end":15116.35,"text":"基本上就是這樣"},{"start":15116.35,"end":15118.35,"text":"我們不是我們現在"},{"start":15118.35,"end":15120.35,"text":"我們應該是要怎麼樣"},{"start":15120.35,"end":15122.35,"text":"快速的完成這個法律"},{"start":15122.35,"end":15124.35,"text":"讓我們的"},{"start":15123.49,"end":15125.49,"text":"無人載技能夠國防自主"},{"start":15125.49,"end":15127.49,"text":"這最重要的"},{"start":15128.35,"end":15130.35,"text":"現在的版本"},{"start":15130.34,"end":15132.34,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":15132.34,"end":15134.34,"text":"國民黨團的版本國防自主"},{"start":15134.7,"end":15136.7,"text":"民眾黨團的版本國防自主"},{"start":15137.9,"end":15139.9,"text":"國防自主就是要"},{"start":15140.42,"end":15142.42,"text":"在國內"},{"start":15142.86,"end":15144.86,"text":"怎麼樣能夠讓他能夠"},{"start":15145.46,"end":15147.46,"text":"產出非常"},{"start":15147.5,"end":15149.5,"text":"優質非常符合"},{"start":15149.5,"end":15151.5,"text":"現代的戰爭的"},{"start":15151.5,"end":15153.5,"text":"這些無人載技"},{"start":15154.05,"end":15156.05,"text":"基本上是這樣"},{"start":15156.09,"end":15158.09,"text":"如果我們看行政版本的"},{"start":15158.09,"end":15160.09,"text":"第一條也是"},{"start":15160.09,"end":15162.09,"text":"第三條第一計劃"},{"start":15163.75,"end":15165.75,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":15165.75,"end":15167.75,"text":"國防自主就是要自己做"},{"start":15167.75,"end":15169.75,"text":"自己生產"},{"start":15169.75,"end":15171.75,"text":"我們投入相關的"},{"start":15171.75,"end":15173.75,"text":"這些預算"},{"start":15173.49,"end":15175.49,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":15174.67,"end":15176.67,"text":"讓產業"},{"start":15177.34,"end":15179.34,"text":"不擔心"},{"start":15178.94,"end":15180.94,"text":"不擔心做了之後"},{"start":15180.94,"end":15182.94,"text":"然後沒人買"},{"start":15183.75,"end":15185.75,"text":"我們就是要讓產業"},{"start":15187.09,"end":15189.09,"text":"國內的產業知道"},{"start":15189.62,"end":15191.62,"text":"有這個預算"},{"start":15191.14,"end":15193.14,"text":"你不要擔心"},{"start":15192.69,"end":15194.69,"text":"企業界趕快往這個好好的發展"},{"start":15196.63,"end":15198.63,"text":"因為"},{"start":15198.03,"end":15200.03,"text":"在行政院的那個計劃"},{"start":15200.03,"end":15202.03,"text":"無人載技的計劃"},{"start":15202.63,"end":15204.63,"text":"也是為了國防自主"},{"start":15205.23,"end":15207.23,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":15212.74,"end":15214.74,"text":"所以在這樣的情形之下"},{"start":15214.74,"end":15216.74,"text":"我認為國民黨團的"},{"start":15216.74,"end":15218.74,"text":"第三條"},{"start":15218.74,"end":15220.74,"text":"做這樣非常好的定義"},{"start":15220.74,"end":15222.74,"text":"希望大家能夠支持以上"},{"start":15223.71,"end":15225.71,"text":"好 請觀聽委員"},{"start":15235.86,"end":15237.86,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":15239.25,"end":15241.25,"text":"對啊"},{"start":15241.25,"end":15243.25,"text":"所以這不就代表說"},{"start":15243.25,"end":15245.25,"text":"你要支持我們行政院的版本嗎"},{"start":15245.25,"end":15247.25,"text":"你代表要國防自主"},{"start":15249.16,"end":15251.16,"text":"好"},{"start":15250.37,"end":15252.37,"text":"我只是很納悶"},{"start":15252.37,"end":15254.37,"text":"因為主要是政委員講的這幾個說"},{"start":15254.37,"end":15256.37,"text":"針對我們的國防自主"},{"start":15256.37,"end":15258.37,"text":"那說要"},{"start":15258.37,"end":15260.37,"text":"讓我們國內的企業知道說"},{"start":15260.37,"end":15262.37,"text":"我們可以長期能夠自己生產"},{"start":15262.37,"end":15264.37,"text":"有預算等等的話"},{"start":15264.37,"end":15266.37,"text":"那這樣子我們行政院的版本"},{"start":15266.37,"end":15268.37,"text":"特別台會其實就有符合"},{"start":15268.37,"end":15270.37,"text":"政委員的期待"},{"start":15270.37,"end":15272.37,"text":"那這樣我們不是就慢慢有共識了嗎"},{"start":15273.58,"end":15275.58,"text":"好來 中文了"},{"start":15275.87,"end":15277.87,"text":"好 那麼主席"},{"start":15277.87,"end":15279.87,"text":"因為今天這個"},{"start":15279.87,"end":15281.87,"text":"十四個版本"},{"start":15281.87,"end":15283.87,"text":"那就是新創法"},{"start":15283.87,"end":15285.87,"text":"過去會有一個大體討論"},{"start":15285.87,"end":15287.87,"text":"那因為今天主席"},{"start":15287.87,"end":15289.87,"text":"直接進入了法條名冊"},{"start":15289.87,"end":15291.87,"text":"沒有大體討論 現在問題出來了"},{"start":15291.87,"end":15293.87,"text":"我本來想爭取說我們把它分類來審理"},{"start":15293.87,"end":15295.87,"text":"現在我們看到條次的對應不一樣"},{"start":15295.87,"end":15297.87,"text":"有的在第三條"},{"start":15297.87,"end":15299.87,"text":"有的在第四條"},{"start":15299.87,"end":15301.87,"text":"那如果你沒有看這個前後文的關照"},{"start":15301.87,"end":15303.87,"text":"大家現在在前後文後面打架"},{"start":15303.87,"end":15305.87,"text":"後條文就不知道如何自圓其說"},{"start":15305.87,"end":15307.87,"text":"我大概一個一個來跟大家說明清楚"},{"start":15307.87,"end":15311.87,"text":"我當然這個條文我是支持我的版本"},{"start":15311.87,"end":15313.87,"text":"但是我去看比較其他委員的版本"},{"start":15313.87,"end":15315.87,"text":"因為賴委員有兩個版本"},{"start":15315.87,"end":15317.87,"text":"故且稱為賴委員A版"},{"start":15317.87,"end":15319.87,"text":"跟賴委員B版"},{"start":15319.87,"end":15321.87,"text":"那賴委員A版"},{"start":15321.87,"end":15323.87,"text":"他這裡面跟國防跟行政院"},{"start":15323.87,"end":15325.87,"text":"跟本委員的"},{"start":15325.87,"end":15327.87,"text":"跟我們其他 跟本席的"},{"start":15327.87,"end":15329.87,"text":"有哪些"},{"start":15329.84,"end":15331.84,"text":"差異"},{"start":15331.84,"end":15333.84,"text":"第一 他是叫本條例所稱"},{"start":15333.84,"end":15335.84,"text":"國防戰略無人載具"},{"start":15335.84,"end":15337.84,"text":"他用戰略"},{"start":15337.16,"end":15339.16,"text":"行政院版叫做"},{"start":15339.16,"end":15341.16,"text":"國防自主無人載具"},{"start":15341.14,"end":15343.14,"text":"同樣都是採購喔"},{"start":15343.14,"end":15345.14,"text":"那接下來他指的是竹墾機關及所屬機關"},{"start":15345.14,"end":15347.14,"text":"部隊辦理第四條"},{"start":15347.14,"end":15349.14,"text":"所以真的要了解這些條文"},{"start":15349.14,"end":15351.14,"text":"怎麼不一樣看第四條"},{"start":15351.14,"end":15353.14,"text":"那第四條的內容我現在是不談"},{"start":15353.14,"end":15355.14,"text":"那我們來看這個條文內容"},{"start":15355.14,"end":15357.14,"text":"他講的喔 這裡面呢"},{"start":15357.28,"end":15359.28,"text":"鎖定之主要裝備系統"},{"start":15359.28,"end":15361.28,"text":"一樣"},{"start":15360.6,"end":15362.6,"text":"其資源系統自獲得產自一樣"},{"start":15365.11,"end":15367.11,"text":"賴委員A版多了共同生產"},{"start":15367.11,"end":15369.11,"text":"好 那我就很好奇"},{"start":15369.11,"end":15371.11,"text":"這個共同生產是怎麼意思"},{"start":15371.11,"end":15373.11,"text":"後面的維修工程及訓練也一樣"},{"start":15375.6,"end":15377.6,"text":"但是呢 賴委員A版多了一個"},{"start":15377.6,"end":15379.6,"text":"集與其"},{"start":15379.6,"end":15381.6,"text":"一併取得之技術"},{"start":15381.6,"end":15383.6,"text":"移轉與工業合作"},{"start":15384.14,"end":15386.14,"text":"看起來好像比較周延"},{"start":15386.14,"end":15388.14,"text":"但是在廣大的第二項看"},{"start":15388.14,"end":15390.14,"text":"就出現了"},{"start":15390.14,"end":15392.14,"text":"我就可以理解是不是"},{"start":15392.14,"end":15394.14,"text":"賴委員認為戰略只有美國才叫戰略"},{"start":15394.14,"end":15396.14,"text":"前項採購以美國或與"},{"start":15396.14,"end":15398.14,"text":"其他國家所產自或"},{"start":15398.14,"end":15400.14,"text":"授權之裝備為主"},{"start":15400.14,"end":15402.14,"text":"其每一採購案均應附加技術"},{"start":15402.14,"end":15404.14,"text":"移轉及工業合作條件"},{"start":15404.14,"end":15406.14,"text":"這個就錯了"},{"start":15406.55,"end":15408.55,"text":"其實美國"},{"start":15408.21,"end":15410.21,"text":"他在研發很強"},{"start":15410.21,"end":15412.21,"text":"整合很強 他不見得每個零組件都很強"},{"start":15414.11,"end":15416.11,"text":"有些如果他都很強"},{"start":15416.11,"end":15418.11,"text":"晶片就不是我們台積電在拿第一名了"},{"start":15418.48,"end":15420.48,"text":"其實美國他現在他有所偏"},{"start":15421.62,"end":15423.62,"text":"譬如說他的基礎工業能力"},{"start":15423.62,"end":15425.62,"text":"其實最近這20年來都逐漸的在"},{"start":15425.62,"end":15427.62,"text":"移轉到其他國家請人家代工生產"},{"start":15427.62,"end":15429.62,"text":"所以美國在很多無人載具"},{"start":15429.62,"end":15431.62,"text":"系統上"},{"start":15431.62,"end":15433.62,"text":"他不是在每一個系統次系統"},{"start":15434.68,"end":15436.68,"text":"零組件都是最強的"},{"start":15436.68,"end":15438.68,"text":"就講一個好了"},{"start":15438.12,"end":15440.12,"text":"現在無人載具當中"},{"start":15440.12,"end":15442.12,"text":"如果是以自殺型的來講"},{"start":15442.12,"end":15444.12,"text":"他的光電球 光電球你覺得美國最強嗎"},{"start":15444.12,"end":15446.12,"text":"美國沒辦法大量生產"},{"start":15446.12,"end":15448.12,"text":"上萬顆的光電球"},{"start":15450.02,"end":15452.02,"text":"但是台灣有什麼"},{"start":15452.02,"end":15454.02,"text":"台灣的手機上的鏡頭"},{"start":15454.02,"end":15456.02,"text":"大家都知道大立光很會生產"},{"start":15456.02,"end":15458.02,"text":"那大家分清楚"},{"start":15458.02,"end":15460.02,"text":"不要把高階跟低階當作是一概而論"},{"start":15460.02,"end":15462.02,"text":"剛剛賴遠有提到"},{"start":15462.02,"end":15464.02,"text":"我們無人系統我們要獲制的"},{"start":15464.02,"end":15466.02,"text":"你看到我稍微往後看一下"},{"start":15466.02,"end":15468.02,"text":"第四條"},{"start":15468.02,"end":15470.02,"text":"我們目前國防行政要的是兵海"},{"start":15470.02,"end":15472.02,"text":"艱爭"},{"start":15471.66,"end":15473.66,"text":"還有兵海攻擊"},{"start":15474.44,"end":15476.44,"text":"等同於耗材跟彈藥"},{"start":15476.44,"end":15478.44,"text":"什麼叫做小型自殺艇"},{"start":15478.44,"end":15480.44,"text":"自殺艇就是有去無回"},{"start":15480.44,"end":15482.44,"text":"在執行這些作戰任務的"},{"start":15482.44,"end":15484.44,"text":"系統載具或者武器"},{"start":15484.44,"end":15486.44,"text":"基本上他就跟彈藥"},{"start":15486.44,"end":15488.44,"text":"耗材一樣"},{"start":15488.44,"end":15490.44,"text":"有去無回你要求的只能達到"},{"start":15490.44,"end":15492.44,"text":"任務就好你不需要重複使用"},{"start":15493.74,"end":15495.74,"text":"幾千個小時啊"},{"start":15495.74,"end":15497.74,"text":"你不需要重複起降好多的架次啊"},{"start":15497.74,"end":15499.74,"text":"那這個時候你要求的"},{"start":15499.74,"end":15501.74,"text":"零組件的品質是什麼"},{"start":15501.74,"end":15503.74,"text":"可以讓他支撐完成"},{"start":15503.74,"end":15505.74,"text":"他的任務就行了"},{"start":15505.74,"end":15507.74,"text":"所以很清楚的美國的MQ9V"},{"start":15507.74,"end":15509.74,"text":"他是要多次"},{"start":15509.74,"end":15511.74,"text":"多次常時使用"},{"start":15511.74,"end":15513.74,"text":"他的鏡頭很精密"},{"start":15513.74,"end":15515.74,"text":"他的定位系統很準"},{"start":15515.74,"end":15517.74,"text":"但是他不可能用在所謂的FPEV"},{"start":15517.74,"end":15519.74,"text":"自殺型無人攻擊機上"},{"start":15519.74,"end":15521.74,"text":"那這個時候有誰能夠生產這些"},{"start":15521.74,"end":15523.74,"text":"大量的裝備"},{"start":15523.93,"end":15525.93,"text":"最會大量生產的是中國"},{"start":15525.93,"end":15527.93,"text":"中國之外台灣是"},{"start":15527.93,"end":15529.93,"text":"數一數二的能力"},{"start":15529.93,"end":15531.93,"text":"所以當我們在講這些裝備的時候"},{"start":15531.93,"end":15533.93,"text":"要跟賴委員A板交換一下意見"},{"start":15533.93,"end":15535.93,"text":"這些採購啊"},{"start":15535.93,"end":15537.93,"text":"不見得美國能做"},{"start":15537.93,"end":15539.93,"text":"甚至我剛剛講的那種所謂的"},{"start":15539.93,"end":15541.93,"text":"所謂的FPEV使用的"},{"start":15541.93,"end":15543.93,"text":"這些光電球或者說"},{"start":15543.93,"end":15545.93,"text":"偵查跟打擊合併的"},{"start":15545.93,"end":15547.93,"text":"有去無回的這一種"},{"start":15547.93,"end":15549.93,"text":"其實都是在東歐產製的"},{"start":15549.93,"end":15551.93,"text":"美國連自己本國都沒有產製"},{"start":15551.93,"end":15553.93,"text":"那他怎麼取得很簡單"},{"start":15553.93,"end":15555.93,"text":"他透過控股公司"},{"start":15555.93,"end":15557.93,"text":"直接把人家公司買下來"},{"start":15557.93,"end":15559.93,"text":"那麼以後他的產線的生產"},{"start":15559.93,"end":15561.93,"text":"就專攻美國軍用"},{"start":15561.93,"end":15563.93,"text":"來供應他組裝使用"},{"start":15563.93,"end":15565.93,"text":"美國是這樣做的"},{"start":15566.21,"end":15568.21,"text":"那我們要如果要"},{"start":15568.21,"end":15570.21,"text":"我們有沒有能力跟美國一樣"},{"start":15570.21,"end":15572.21,"text":"去歐洲去東歐把那個"},{"start":15572.21,"end":15574.21,"text":"光電球的工廠買下來"},{"start":15574.96,"end":15576.96,"text":"人家之所以目前能夠做得好好的"},{"start":15576.96,"end":15578.96,"text":"不是我們做不到"},{"start":15578.96,"end":15580.96,"text":"是因為人家已經系統規模"},{"start":15580.96,"end":15581.96,"text":"已經建立了"},{"start":15581.96,"end":15583.96,"text":"所以他不需要"},{"start":15583.84,"end":15585.84,"text":"他就可以有經濟效益"},{"start":15585.84,"end":15587.84,"text":"那無人載具這個很重要的功能"},{"start":15588.92,"end":15591.92,"text":"他是要有考慮到他的成本"},{"start":15592.72,"end":15594.72,"text":"我沒有做到最好的成本很高"},{"start":15594.72,"end":15596.72,"text":"那我就做比較便宜的"},{"start":15597.36,"end":15599.36,"text":"品質不需要那麼高的"},{"start":15599.36,"end":15601.36,"text":"這個不是高階低階"},{"start":15601.36,"end":15603.36,"text":"這是事才事所"},{"start":15603.36,"end":15605.36,"text":"我們要買的武器是這樣的"},{"start":15605.36,"end":15607.36,"text":"所以單單看第四條我們行政院"},{"start":15607.36,"end":15609.36,"text":"這邊寫的兵海監偵"},{"start":15609.36,"end":15611.36,"text":"那既然是監偵重複使用"},{"start":15611.36,"end":15613.36,"text":"他其實還要有高空的"},{"start":15613.36,"end":15615.36,"text":"偵查能力要長時間的制空能力"},{"start":15615.36,"end":15617.36,"text":"但是你的兵海攻擊"},{"start":15617.36,"end":15619.36,"text":"他就是有去無回的"},{"start":15619.36,"end":15621.36,"text":"所以這些內容都放在第四條"},{"start":15621.36,"end":15623.36,"text":"但是我們看"},{"start":15623.36,"end":15625.36,"text":"過來其實民眾黨的"},{"start":15625.36,"end":15627.36,"text":"民眾黨版跟國民黨版的"},{"start":15627.36,"end":15629.36,"text":"這裡面其實沒有講得這麼具體"},{"start":15629.36,"end":15631.36,"text":"以國民黨版的第三條他的定義"},{"start":15632.69,"end":15634.69,"text":"他就沒有那麼具體的寫到"},{"start":15634.69,"end":15636.69,"text":"他要買什麼"},{"start":15636.69,"end":15638.69,"text":"他這裡面寫什麼"},{"start":15638.69,"end":15640.69,"text":"就是把所有的無人載具的類型入門"},{"start":15640.69,"end":15642.69,"text":"都教訓你了包括懸異型、定義型"},{"start":15642.69,"end":15644.69,"text":"垂直起降型"},{"start":15644.69,"end":15646.69,"text":"這個大家都知道啊"},{"start":15646.69,"end":15648.69,"text":"然後呢無人機、水面、水下"},{"start":15648.69,"end":15650.69,"text":"然後還有說增收型、後勤及作戰型"},{"start":15650.69,"end":15652.69,"text":"地面...這些"},{"start":15652.69,"end":15654.69,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":15654.69,"end":15656.69,"text":"只要不需要人員承載於機體本體的"},{"start":15656.69,"end":15658.69,"text":"這些都算數"},{"start":15658.69,"end":15660.69,"text":"那請問你這麼"},{"start":15660.69,"end":15662.69,"text":"你剛剛那樣的把所有無人載具可用於作戰的"},{"start":15662.69,"end":15664.69,"text":"都都含進去了,那你有什麼漏掉的"},{"start":15666.06,"end":15668.06,"text":"倒是王定宇版本的他講得很清楚"},{"start":15668.06,"end":15670.06,"text":"他這裡面呢是比較簡略的提出來"},{"start":15670.06,"end":15674.06,"text":"他包括飛行、水面、水下、地面"},{"start":15674.06,"end":15676.06,"text":"然後呢主管機關公告指定的"},{"start":15676.06,"end":15678.06,"text":"那其他的呢"},{"start":15678.06,"end":15680.06,"text":"包括什麼"},{"start":15680.06,"end":15684.06,"text":"不包括太空發展法所定之發射載具與太空載具"},{"start":15685.78,"end":15687.78,"text":"這就很清楚這個版本他清楚知道說"},{"start":15687.78,"end":15691.78,"text":"他講的無人載具不能把太空發展所說的火箭"},{"start":15692.31,"end":15694.31,"text":"我們講火箭有幾種"},{"start":15694.31,"end":15696.31,"text":"陸軍打的火箭是要打一次有恤無悔的"},{"start":15696.31,"end":15698.31,"text":"但是馬斯特的火箭是去了會回來的"},{"start":15698.31,"end":15700.31,"text":"這當然是不一樣的等同而論嘛"},{"start":15700.31,"end":15702.31,"text":"所以人家的版本講的很清楚啊"},{"start":15704.16,"end":15706.16,"text":"行政院的版本講的很清楚啊"},{"start":15706.16,"end":15708.16,"text":"我的版本講的很清楚啊"},{"start":15708.16,"end":15710.16,"text":"賴世保委員的A版他在把它放在哪裡"},{"start":15710.16,"end":15712.16,"text":"他放在他的第四條"},{"start":15712.16,"end":15714.16,"text":"第四條裡面呢我仔細看了一下"},{"start":15714.16,"end":15716.16,"text":"原來他叫的戰略是什麼"},{"start":15716.16,"end":15718.16,"text":"高空長程長航時"},{"start":15718.16,"end":15720.16,"text":"精準打擊電子作戰"},{"start":15720.16,"end":15722.16,"text":"這叫MQ9B"},{"start":15722.16,"end":15724.16,"text":"廣域海域或持續空域的監控跟反潛"},{"start":15724.16,"end":15726.16,"text":"喔那這個更厲害"},{"start":15726.16,"end":15728.16,"text":"這個空中預警要反潛機"},{"start":15728.16,"end":15730.16,"text":"有人或無人協同作戰或任務自主行"},{"start":15730.16,"end":15732.16,"text":"這到底是哪一種"},{"start":15732.16,"end":15734.16,"text":"自他頂宗不算"},{"start":15734.16,"end":15736.16,"text":"其他具戰略價值之先進無人宰菌能力"},{"start":15736.16,"end":15738.16,"text":"難怪賴委員"},{"start":15738.16,"end":15740.16,"text":"一直認為說"},{"start":15739.92,"end":15741.92,"text":"無人宰菌的使用有高階跟低階"},{"start":15741.92,"end":15743.92,"text":"因為他這裡面解的"},{"start":15743.92,"end":15745.92,"text":"就是他認為是高階的"},{"start":15745.92,"end":15747.92,"text":"但是很清楚今天我們知道國防部他需要的是什麼"},{"start":15747.92,"end":15749.92,"text":"他需要的是FPV啊"},{"start":15749.92,"end":15751.92,"text":"他需要的是當對岸的萬挺齊發的時候"},{"start":15751.92,"end":15753.92,"text":"我們要有能力把它"},{"start":15753.92,"end":15755.92,"text":"摧毀把它監控摧毀啊"},{"start":15755.92,"end":15757.92,"text":"就因為主席沒有提供一個"},{"start":15757.92,"end":15759.92,"text":"我們的大提討論的時間"},{"start":15759.92,"end":15761.92,"text":"所以我們這些版本完全"},{"start":15761.92,"end":15763.92,"text":"條是沒辦法對應"},{"start":15763.92,"end":15765.92,"text":"所指的沒有辦法對應"},{"start":15765.92,"end":15767.92,"text":"至於民眾黨版的部分呢他這裡寫的是什麼"},{"start":15767.92,"end":15769.92,"text":"他這裡寫本條例"},{"start":15769.92,"end":15771.92,"text":"我現在講的都是我們本條的內容喔"},{"start":15771.92,"end":15773.92,"text":"現在民眾黨版第二條"},{"start":15773.92,"end":15775.92,"text":"跟第三條並在一起審了"},{"start":15775.92,"end":15777.92,"text":"他就要定義什麼"},{"start":15777.92,"end":15779.92,"text":"本條例所生的無人機是指無人飛機"},{"start":15779.92,"end":15781.92,"text":"無人直升機 無人多宣飛機"},{"start":15781.92,"end":15785.92,"text":"其他的勒 其他經交通部民用航空局公告者"},{"start":15785.92,"end":15787.92,"text":"天啊"},{"start":15787.47,"end":15789.47,"text":"我們國防要用的東西"},{"start":15789.47,"end":15791.47,"text":"還要先請民航局去公告才算數啊"},{"start":15791.47,"end":15793.47,"text":"那國防部是不是要買什麼先進武器的時候"},{"start":15793.47,"end":15795.47,"text":"要先請民航局你公告一下"},{"start":15795.47,"end":15797.47,"text":"不然的話我還不能買"},{"start":15797.71,"end":15799.71,"text":"所以我們可以看得出"},{"start":15799.71,"end":15801.71,"text":"這些內容充分顯現出"},{"start":15801.71,"end":15803.71,"text":"各個版本有其不同的立法宗旨"},{"start":15803.71,"end":15805.71,"text":"所以呢他沒有辦法這樣的"},{"start":15805.71,"end":15807.71,"text":"橫向的條字的整合"},{"start":15807.71,"end":15809.71,"text":"這是擺明的事實"},{"start":15809.93,"end":15811.93,"text":"本席苦口薄心跟主席建議"},{"start":15812.82,"end":15814.82,"text":"既然連大題討論都沒有"},{"start":15814.82,"end":15816.82,"text":"就馬上進入了名稱跟條字"},{"start":15816.82,"end":15818.82,"text":"條字在整合的時候有的條字是剛好"},{"start":15818.82,"end":15820.82,"text":"不同的版本他的前後不一樣"},{"start":15820.82,"end":15822.82,"text":"但是根本的目的不同"},{"start":15822.82,"end":15824.82,"text":"有的條字呢賴委員A版的跟行政院版的"},{"start":15824.82,"end":15826.82,"text":"差一些些"},{"start":15826.82,"end":15828.82,"text":"差很多啦"},{"start":15828.73,"end":15830.73,"text":"你確定你第二項"},{"start":15830.73,"end":15832.73,"text":"前項所提的採購以美國或其他的"},{"start":15832.73,"end":15834.73,"text":"為主一定要計數合作嗎"},{"start":15834.73,"end":15836.73,"text":"搞不好在這些內容上有的是美國要計數"},{"start":15836.73,"end":15838.73,"text":"移轉台灣的耶"},{"start":15838.73,"end":15840.73,"text":"不是台灣要移轉計數美國的耶"},{"start":15840.02,"end":15842.02,"text":"這一定把自己的本土產業矮化"},{"start":15842.02,"end":15844.02,"text":"說我們買的東西一定要跟美國計數移轉才可以"},{"start":15845.98,"end":15847.98,"text":"那如果我們比較強還要分享給他嗎"},{"start":15848.91,"end":15850.91,"text":"所以我是覺得今天我們在審這個條例"},{"start":15850.91,"end":15852.91,"text":"大家口口聲聲說很重視"},{"start":15852.91,"end":15854.91,"text":"口口聲聲說時間重要"},{"start":15854.91,"end":15856.91,"text":"但是到底我們對這些條例不同版本當中"},{"start":15856.91,"end":15858.91,"text":"各個內容有沒有去做個比較"},{"start":15858.91,"end":15860.91,"text":"有沒有做個分類"},{"start":15860.91,"end":15862.91,"text":"那委員主席要我們討論"},{"start":15862.91,"end":15864.91,"text":"我們要怎麼討論"},{"start":15864.25,"end":15866.25,"text":"所以單單是第三條現在卡關了"},{"start":15866.25,"end":15868.25,"text":"第三條第四條接下來各個版本分歧越來越大"},{"start":15868.25,"end":15870.25,"text":"從前面調制的名稱"},{"start":15870.25,"end":15872.25,"text":"目的主管機關"},{"start":15872.25,"end":15874.25,"text":"到後來的定義名詞定義"},{"start":15874.25,"end":15876.25,"text":"到後來採購的範圍"},{"start":15876.25,"end":15878.25,"text":"後來就會開花了"},{"start":15878.25,"end":15880.25,"text":"我們後面不知道怎麼審"},{"start":15880.25,"end":15882.25,"text":"所以我只不但告訴提醒主席"},{"start":15882.25,"end":15884.25,"text":"你要不要把它分類"},{"start":15884.25,"end":15886.25,"text":"不然的話我們不曉得今天我們要以哪一個類為優先"},{"start":15886.25,"end":15888.25,"text":"如果今天各位委員說我們國防採購為優先"},{"start":15888.25,"end":15890.25,"text":"那好"},{"start":15890.25,"end":15892.25,"text":"那我們就把包括賴委員A版"},{"start":15892.25,"end":15894.25,"text":"特別預算的"},{"start":15894.25,"end":15896.25,"text":"甚至包括國民黨當中"},{"start":15896.25,"end":15898.25,"text":"他用年度預算的他就能含採購"},{"start":15898.25,"end":15900.25,"text":"我們把他拉進來"},{"start":15900.25,"end":15902.25,"text":"看看他們要的這些採購"},{"start":15902.25,"end":15904.25,"text":"是不是目前我們國防自主防衛所需要的"},{"start":15904.25,"end":15906.25,"text":"還是賴委員A版說要戰略"},{"start":15906.47,"end":15908.47,"text":"戰略無...國防戰略"},{"start":15909.11,"end":15911.11,"text":"你要用國防戰略、用國防自主我都可以接受"},{"start":15911.11,"end":15913.11,"text":"但是不要用高階跟低階"},{"start":15913.11,"end":15915.11,"text":"來忽略了我們本土產業"},{"start":15915.11,"end":15917.11,"text":"在這些無人載具產業當中"},{"start":15917.11,"end":15919.11,"text":"某些品項我們是超越的"},{"start":15919.11,"end":15921.11,"text":"我們是先進的"},{"start":15921.11,"end":15923.11,"text":"我們先進不做技術高低"},{"start":15923.11,"end":15925.11,"text":"是因為我們的CP值高"},{"start":15924.36,"end":15926.36,"text":"我們的CP值高所以呢"},{"start":15926.36,"end":15928.36,"text":"人家要跟我們採購因為我們"},{"start":15928.36,"end":15930.36,"text":"小哥大嘛這誰說的這黃仁勳說的"},{"start":15931.14,"end":15933.14,"text":"台灣小哥大嘛難道就是低階嗎"},{"start":15933.14,"end":15935.14,"text":"不是是我們的東西物美價廉"},{"start":15935.14,"end":15937.14,"text":"物美價廉"},{"start":15937.14,"end":15939.14,"text":"而不是什麼物廉價美"},{"start":15939.14,"end":15941.14,"text":"這點我是建議主席再思考一下"},{"start":15941.14,"end":15943.14,"text":"不然的話我們從第三條以後"},{"start":15943.14,"end":15945.14,"text":"會開始卡關啦"},{"start":15945.14,"end":15947.14,"text":"因為後面的條式都不一樣"},{"start":15947.14,"end":15949.14,"text":"不知道怎麼審啦以上"},{"start":15950.15,"end":15952.15,"text":"謝謝主席就是說其實我們"},{"start":15952.15,"end":15954.15,"text":"各團團"},{"start":15954.15,"end":15956.15,"text":"其實大家都是希望說"},{"start":15956.15,"end":15958.15,"text":"台灣能夠取得在無人機"},{"start":15958.15,"end":15960.15,"text":"產業上面的關鍵的技術"},{"start":15960.15,"end":15962.15,"text":"然後以及對於"},{"start":15962.15,"end":15964.15,"text":"產業發展有利的"},{"start":15964.15,"end":15966.15,"text":"這樣子的方向"},{"start":15966.15,"end":15968.15,"text":"所以看來"},{"start":15968.15,"end":15970.15,"text":"就是大家對於就是"},{"start":15970.15,"end":15972.15,"text":"第三條第四條"},{"start":15972.15,"end":15974.15,"text":"都有不同的意見"},{"start":15974.15,"end":15976.15,"text":"那我們是不是只有保留"},{"start":15976.15,"end":15978.15,"text":"因為這個東西其實"},{"start":15978.15,"end":15980.15,"text":"即便是"},{"start":15980.15,"end":15982.15,"text":"王委員或者是"},{"start":15982.15,"end":15984.15,"text":"那是不是先保留"},{"start":15984.15,"end":15986.15,"text":"全部都保留"},{"start":15986.15,"end":15988.15,"text":"因為你剛才還支持"},{"start":15988.15,"end":15990.15,"text":"王委員的版本"},{"start":15990.15,"end":15992.15,"text":"那王委員的版本"},{"start":15992.15,"end":15994.15,"text":"他的裡面主管區關是經濟部"},{"start":15994.15,"end":15996.15,"text":"跟國防部"},{"start":15996.15,"end":15998.15,"text":"所以跟我們不一樣"},{"start":15998.15,"end":16000.15,"text":"所以是不是"},{"start":16000.15,"end":16002.15,"text":"我們就這樣子先保留"},{"start":16002.64,"end":16004.64,"text":"來 讓四包委員"},{"start":16005.9,"end":16007.9,"text":"這個"},{"start":16007.9,"end":16009.9,"text":"周瑋一直對我什麼低階高階"},{"start":16009.9,"end":16011.9,"text":"很有意見喔"},{"start":16011.9,"end":16013.9,"text":"如果大家覺得有意見"},{"start":16013.9,"end":16015.9,"text":"我要強調喔 我絕對不會去小看"},{"start":16015.9,"end":16017.9,"text":"台灣的無人機產業"},{"start":16017.9,"end":16019.9,"text":"特別是我們的零組件"},{"start":16019.9,"end":16021.9,"text":"我們很強 大家都了解"},{"start":16021.9,"end":16023.9,"text":"可是就整機"},{"start":16023.9,"end":16025.9,"text":"整個的整合"},{"start":16025.02,"end":16027.02,"text":"沒什麼平衡了 我們這一部分"},{"start":16027.72,"end":16029.72,"text":"要離世界的標準還很遠啊"},{"start":16030.27,"end":16032.27,"text":"還很遠啊"},{"start":16032.27,"end":16034.27,"text":"這個東西你說"},{"start":16034.27,"end":16036.27,"text":"這個零組件很強"},{"start":16036.9,"end":16038.9,"text":"沒有錯 但是呢"},{"start":16038.81,"end":16040.81,"text":"關鍵有一些零組件我們還是不行"},{"start":16042.05,"end":16044.05,"text":"我們早就可以賣得更多了"},{"start":16044.05,"end":16046.05,"text":"到目前為止我們一定"},{"start":16046.05,"end":16048.05,"text":"跟華戰還沒 華戰跟華戰"},{"start":16048.05,"end":16050.05,"text":"一個月可以賣到"},{"start":16050.05,"end":16052.05,"text":"超過一萬架 現在都沒有嘛"},{"start":16052.05,"end":16054.05,"text":"採購一萬架已經了不起了"},{"start":16054.05,"end":16056.05,"text":"那現在來講 按照國防部"},{"start":16056.05,"end":16058.05,"text":"要採購二十一萬架"},{"start":16058.05,"end":16060.05,"text":"不要忘了烏克蘭一個月就打掉二十一萬架"},{"start":16060.85,"end":16062.85,"text":"烏克蘭一個月就打掉二十萬架"},{"start":16062.85,"end":16064.85,"text":"所以距離量產"},{"start":16064.85,"end":16066.85,"text":"沒有量產 你要談什麼"},{"start":16066.85,"end":16068.85,"text":"富國神山"},{"start":16068.85,"end":16070.85,"text":"很遠很遠"},{"start":16070.85,"end":16072.85,"text":"所以這裡面來講的話"},{"start":16072.85,"end":16074.85,"text":"這裡別忘了"},{"start":16074.85,"end":16076.85,"text":"請周圍"},{"start":16076.85,"end":16078.85,"text":"你喜歡看我的版本請你看清楚"},{"start":16078.85,"end":16080.85,"text":"前第二項"},{"start":16080.85,"end":16082.85,"text":"第三條的第二項"},{"start":16082.82,"end":16084.82,"text":"前項採購美國或其他國家"},{"start":16084.82,"end":16086.82,"text":"所以你的東歐什麼的"},{"start":16086.82,"end":16088.82,"text":"通通包括在這裡面"},{"start":16088.82,"end":16090.82,"text":"包括烏克蘭"},{"start":16090.82,"end":16092.82,"text":"通通包括在這裡面"},{"start":16092.82,"end":16094.82,"text":"那我另外一個版的是"},{"start":16094.82,"end":16096.82,"text":"把它定義 我覺得"},{"start":16096.82,"end":16098.82,"text":"既然這麼又花錢"},{"start":16099.07,"end":16101.07,"text":"老實講這一部分老實講"},{"start":16101.07,"end":16103.07,"text":"我是很看"},{"start":16103.07,"end":16105.07,"text":"來講的話我是肯定"},{"start":16105.07,"end":16107.07,"text":"民眾黨所提出來的"},{"start":16107.07,"end":16109.07,"text":"民眾黨提出來給的感覺是沒有上限的"},{"start":16109.07,"end":16111.07,"text":"有需要的可以發展"},{"start":16111.07,"end":16113.07,"text":"我都支持他們的"},{"start":16113.36,"end":16115.36,"text":"老實講這個錢更多了"},{"start":16115.66,"end":16117.66,"text":"這個來講兩千多一個不夠"},{"start":16117.66,"end":16119.66,"text":"你要真的把台灣整聚的"},{"start":16120.58,"end":16124.58,"text":"這個整個的一個無人機的產業鏈"},{"start":16124.58,"end":16126.58,"text":"包括它的整場"},{"start":16126.58,"end":16128.58,"text":"我們就都很清楚了整場"},{"start":16128.58,"end":16130.58,"text":"老實講這個能夠做整場"},{"start":16130.58,"end":16132.58,"text":"沒有幾家啦"},{"start":16132.58,"end":16134.58,"text":"沒有幾家啦"},{"start":16134.58,"end":16136.58,"text":"數的可以數的數的出來啦"},{"start":16136.58,"end":16138.58,"text":"這個手勢都數的數的出來"},{"start":16138.58,"end":16140.58,"text":"距離說要變成富國神山"},{"start":16140.58,"end":16142.58,"text":"要炸咧 所以這一部分"},{"start":16143.9,"end":16145.9,"text":"我覺得民眾黨提的很好"},{"start":16145.9,"end":16147.9,"text":"錢多會好"},{"start":16147.9,"end":16149.9,"text":"但是我們要審查"},{"start":16149.54,"end":16151.54,"text":"我們要看清楚啊"},{"start":16151.54,"end":16153.54,"text":"每年度來編"},{"start":16153.54,"end":16155.54,"text":"每年度來審"},{"start":16155.54,"end":16157.54,"text":"一直下去啊"},{"start":16157.54,"end":16159.54,"text":"兩千一不夠兩千四"},{"start":16159.54,"end":16161.54,"text":"兩千四不夠兩千五"},{"start":16161.54,"end":16163.54,"text":"三千都可以啊"},{"start":16163.54,"end":16165.54,"text":"但是呢就是要希望打造一座"},{"start":16165.54,"end":16167.54,"text":"台灣變成一個無人機"},{"start":16167.54,"end":16169.54,"text":"產業相關的"},{"start":16169.54,"end":16171.54,"text":"包括領主建"},{"start":16171.54,"end":16173.54,"text":"關鍵的領主建"},{"start":16173.54,"end":16175.54,"text":"老實講我們都很清楚"},{"start":16175.54,"end":16177.54,"text":"我們有一些關鍵的領主建"},{"start":16177.54,"end":16179.54,"text":"我們都要來做啦"},{"start":16179.54,"end":16181.54,"text":"更何況整齊的整合"},{"start":16181.54,"end":16183.54,"text":"來說的話 這樣的廠商"},{"start":16183.54,"end":16185.54,"text":"其實是非常少的啦"},{"start":16185.97,"end":16187.97,"text":"我同意現役論委員講的"},{"start":16187.97,"end":16189.97,"text":"這一部分大家"},{"start":16189.97,"end":16191.97,"text":"重掌記憶啦"},{"start":16191.97,"end":16193.97,"text":"第三條第四條"},{"start":16193.97,"end":16195.97,"text":"大家都一起看了"},{"start":16195.97,"end":16197.97,"text":"是不是我們就保留"},{"start":16197.97,"end":16199.97,"text":"第三第四條"},{"start":16199.97,"end":16201.97,"text":"一起看了"},{"start":16207.64,"end":16209.64,"text":"不是你說沒沒沒"},{"start":16209.64,"end":16211.64,"text":"現在我們帶第三條請主席"},{"start":16211.64,"end":16213.64,"text":"對不對"},{"start":16213.64,"end":16215.64,"text":"請主席"},{"start":16215.64,"end":16217.64,"text":"從頭一個鐘頭請"},{"start":16217.64,"end":16219.64,"text":"那我講第三條可以嗎"},{"start":16219.64,"end":16221.64,"text":"那我講第三條嗎"},{"start":16221.64,"end":16223.64,"text":"先不要了啦"},{"start":16223.64,"end":16225.64,"text":"先讓我講嘛 好吧"},{"start":16225.93,"end":16227.93,"text":"對 個人發言"},{"start":16230.64,"end":16232.64,"text":"哇 你這個啊"},{"start":16232.28,"end":16234.28,"text":"我全部都看過這樣子的結構"},{"start":16234.28,"end":16236.28,"text":"好不好"},{"start":16236.28,"end":16238.28,"text":"因為各個黨團跟行政院等等"},{"start":16238.28,"end":16240.28,"text":"甚至各委員的版本"},{"start":16240.28,"end":16242.28,"text":"其實分下來的話就是"},{"start":16243.6,"end":16245.6,"text":"行政院版 國民黨團"},{"start":16245.78,"end":16247.78,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團"},{"start":16247.78,"end":16249.78,"text":"賴世寶委員"},{"start":16249.78,"end":16251.78,"text":"當然後面還有鍾嘉賓跟汪帝月"},{"start":16252.56,"end":16254.56,"text":"那基本上來講的話"},{"start":16254.56,"end":16256.56,"text":"一開始的有些的目的就不同"},{"start":16256.56,"end":16258.56,"text":"像我們跟國民黨團"},{"start":16258.56,"end":16260.56,"text":"同樣的立場"},{"start":16260.56,"end":16262.56,"text":"就是放在一般的預算"},{"start":16262.56,"end":16264.56,"text":"然後你的產業發展要支持國防自主"},{"start":16266.4,"end":16268.4,"text":"那行政院版當然你就是要特別調理"},{"start":16268.4,"end":16270.4,"text":"Focus在這個採購"},{"start":16270.4,"end":16272.4,"text":"那當然你從這個立法的精神"},{"start":16272.4,"end":16274.4,"text":"你有特別調理"},{"start":16274.4,"end":16276.4,"text":"當然就會有特別 就會有預算"},{"start":16276.4,"end":16278.4,"text":"就會有採購項目"},{"start":16278.4,"end":16280.4,"text":"那是因為你從行政院的角度來看"},{"start":16280.4,"end":16282.4,"text":"那我們如果從產業發展自主"},{"start":16282.4,"end":16284.4,"text":"去支持國防自主的一個方式"},{"start":16284.4,"end":16286.4,"text":"我們就會從研發"},{"start":16286.4,"end":16288.4,"text":"國防部就是開需求規格"},{"start":16288.71,"end":16290.71,"text":"那這個東西放在年度預算的話"},{"start":16290.71,"end":16292.71,"text":"基本上本來就是按照你的需求"},{"start":16292.71,"end":16294.71,"text":"分年度編列"},{"start":16294.71,"end":16296.71,"text":"所以你這整個法條寫下來"},{"start":16296.71,"end":16298.71,"text":"本來也就不用去challenge別人"},{"start":16298.71,"end":16300.71,"text":"你就是講你自己的理念"},{"start":16300.71,"end":16302.71,"text":"那這本來今天"},{"start":16302.71,"end":16304.71,"text":"就會今天本來"},{"start":16304.71,"end":16306.71,"text":"就會合格言而治"},{"start":16306.71,"end":16308.71,"text":"那基本上條目就會"},{"start":16308.71,"end":16310.71,"text":"不同"},{"start":16310.26,"end":16312.26,"text":"因為我們又不是在做所有的東西都一樣"},{"start":16312.26,"end":16314.26,"text":"但是你如果到後面"},{"start":16314.26,"end":16316.26,"text":"包含像你的這些的"},{"start":16316.26,"end":16318.26,"text":"是非的一個場域"},{"start":16318.26,"end":16320.26,"text":"或者是非農工業鏈國產化比例"},{"start":16320.26,"end":16322.26,"text":"很多等等"},{"start":16322.26,"end":16324.26,"text":"基本上"},{"start":16324.26,"end":16326.26,"text":"大概就差不多"},{"start":16326.26,"end":16328.26,"text":"甚至你們的產創條例 升級投資等等"},{"start":16329.78,"end":16331.78,"text":"所以如果你把這些東西列進來"},{"start":16331.78,"end":16333.78,"text":"一定就是前面到這邊就會不一樣"},{"start":16333.78,"end":16335.78,"text":"但你後面很多東西就會相同"},{"start":16338.3,"end":16340.3,"text":"所以我講說"},{"start":16340.3,"end":16342.3,"text":"我們前面就在分歧的部分"},{"start":16342.3,"end":16344.3,"text":"本來就是各家各個黨團各個有自己堅持的做法"},{"start":16344.3,"end":16346.3,"text":"講完"},{"start":16346.3,"end":16348.3,"text":"那就是我們也聽懂也理解"},{"start":16348.3,"end":16350.3,"text":"就這樣子"},{"start":16349.85,"end":16351.85,"text":"阿你就是要有個共識"},{"start":16353.53,"end":16355.53,"text":"就很難"},{"start":16355.45,"end":16357.45,"text":"其實很悲觀啦主席應該要樂觀正面能量啦"},{"start":16357.45,"end":16359.45,"text":"我很正面啊"},{"start":16359.45,"end":16361.45,"text":"如果說立法院說的法案"},{"start":16361.45,"end":16363.45,"text":"只要黨團有不同的版本就沒有辦法討論出一個共識"},{"start":16363.45,"end":16365.45,"text":"那就不叫做立法院了"},{"start":16365.45,"end":16367.45,"text":"我們都在尋求共識當中"},{"start":16368.07,"end":16370.07,"text":"主席要加油要正向正能量"},{"start":16370.07,"end":16372.07,"text":"我來講你的版本"},{"start":16372.07,"end":16374.07,"text":"你說這不是challenge"},{"start":16374.07,"end":16376.07,"text":"這是提出版本當中的差異"},{"start":16376.07,"end":16378.07,"text":"造成我們審查上的取捨"},{"start":16378.07,"end":16380.07,"text":"先談你的"},{"start":16380.07,"end":16382.07,"text":"剛剛賴斯巴委員口口聲聲說"},{"start":16382.07,"end":16384.07,"text":"我們是要買整機的 要買先進的 要買戰略的"},{"start":16384.96,"end":16386.96,"text":"貴黨團的版本是什麼"},{"start":16386.96,"end":16388.96,"text":"你看我們在看第三條"},{"start":16388.96,"end":16390.96,"text":"像你們的名詞定義的第二條"},{"start":16390.96,"end":16392.96,"text":"除了第一項"},{"start":16392.96,"end":16394.96,"text":"是要京交通部民航局"},{"start":16394.96,"end":16396.96,"text":"民用航空局公告之外"},{"start":16396.96,"end":16398.96,"text":"你這裡所說的無人機產業"},{"start":16398.96,"end":16400.96,"text":"因為"},{"start":16401.62,"end":16403.62,"text":"民眾黨團的版本是在談產業"},{"start":16405.16,"end":16407.16,"text":"賴斯巴委員A板是要買採購"},{"start":16407.86,"end":16409.86,"text":"他採購採購先進的"},{"start":16410.21,"end":16412.21,"text":"但是要戰略的"},{"start":16412.21,"end":16414.21,"text":"但是你們談的無人機產業包括什麼"},{"start":16414.19,"end":16416.19,"text":"全機系統整合一個"},{"start":16416.66,"end":16418.66,"text":"飛行載具模組 飛行模組一個"},{"start":16419.36,"end":16421.36,"text":"動力模組一個"},{"start":16420.98,"end":16422.98,"text":"籌載模組一個"},{"start":16422.98,"end":16424.98,"text":"看要放炸彈還是要放偵測"},{"start":16424.98,"end":16426.98,"text":"通訊模組一個 地面導控一個"},{"start":16426.98,"end":16428.98,"text":"飛控模組一個"},{"start":16428.98,"end":16430.98,"text":"還好有相對應的產業"},{"start":16430.98,"end":16432.98,"text":"這些是模組啊"},{"start":16432.98,"end":16434.98,"text":"這些台灣有沒有人能生產"},{"start":16434.98,"end":16436.98,"text":"有 有的台灣還能生產"},{"start":16436.98,"end":16438.98,"text":"不是整機啊 糟糕了"},{"start":16438.98,"end":16440.98,"text":"現在賴斯巴委員A板跟你的不一樣"},{"start":16440.98,"end":16442.98,"text":"他講的是整機"},{"start":16442.98,"end":16444.98,"text":"你講的是什麼"},{"start":16444.98,"end":16446.98,"text":"產業當中的全系統跟次系統"},{"start":16446.98,"end":16448.98,"text":"那這怎麼整合"},{"start":16447.69,"end":16449.69,"text":"明明就是不一樣的目的"},{"start":16449.69,"end":16451.69,"text":"一個談的產業發展 要談到次系統"},{"start":16451.76,"end":16453.76,"text":"那我們再來看一下國民黨的版本"},{"start":16454.83,"end":16456.83,"text":"國民黨版本在第一條"},{"start":16456.97,"end":16458.97,"text":"第三條第一項的第二款"},{"start":16458.97,"end":16460.97,"text":"他這裡面還特別告訴你"},{"start":16460.97,"end":16462.97,"text":"軍用商規"},{"start":16462.97,"end":16464.97,"text":"是以商用規格為基礎"},{"start":16464.97,"end":16466.97,"text":"依軍事需求進行"},{"start":16466.97,"end":16468.97,"text":"適應性改良"},{"start":16468.97,"end":16470.97,"text":"並符合一定抗干擾"},{"start":16470.97,"end":16472.97,"text":"抗電池脈衝"},{"start":16472.97,"end":16474.97,"text":"及戰場存活率標準植物輪載具"},{"start":16476.34,"end":16478.34,"text":"天啊 這個"},{"start":16478.33,"end":16480.33,"text":"講的都對啦"},{"start":16479.8,"end":16481.8,"text":"但是這是我們"},{"start":16481.8,"end":16483.8,"text":"有指出任何東西嗎"},{"start":16483.4,"end":16485.4,"text":"現在在軍用的載具上"},{"start":16485.4,"end":16487.4,"text":"這些內容都是基本款"},{"start":16487.4,"end":16489.4,"text":"要抗干擾"},{"start":16489.4,"end":16491.4,"text":"要跳屏 要抗電池脈衝"},{"start":16491.4,"end":16493.4,"text":"不然就被人家暖殺"},{"start":16493.4,"end":16495.4,"text":"要有戰場存活率標準"},{"start":16495.4,"end":16497.4,"text":"而且戰場存活率標準又不一樣啊"},{"start":16497.4,"end":16499.4,"text":"自殺型的要什麼存活率標準"},{"start":16498.74,"end":16500.74,"text":"自殺型的要彈藥對方同歸於盡"},{"start":16500.74,"end":16502.74,"text":"還有什麼存活率標準"},{"start":16502.46,"end":16504.46,"text":"但是地面載具要去把商兵"},{"start":16504.46,"end":16506.46,"text":"從戰場拖回來的地面無人車"},{"start":16506.46,"end":16508.46,"text":"那是要有存活率標準啊"},{"start":16508.46,"end":16510.46,"text":"為什麼 你派一輛車去把商兵接回來"},{"start":16510.46,"end":16512.46,"text":"這要有存活率標準啊"},{"start":16512.34,"end":16514.34,"text":"這些條例看起來言之有理"},{"start":16514.34,"end":16516.34,"text":"但是看不出他的立法的目標"},{"start":16518.75,"end":16520.75,"text":"然後呢 我們再來看一下"},{"start":16520.75,"end":16522.75,"text":"剛剛 因為剛剛有講到"},{"start":16522.75,"end":16524.75,"text":"第三條 第四條 賴委員說"},{"start":16524.91,"end":16526.91,"text":"何必來看"},{"start":16526.38,"end":16528.38,"text":"我們來看一看 他的第四條"},{"start":16529.21,"end":16531.21,"text":"他的第二項"},{"start":16531.21,"end":16537.21,"text":"他說前項各款所需之指揮管制與勤奸增整合"},{"start":16537.67,"end":16539.67,"text":"系統衛星系統鏈"},{"start":16539.67,"end":16541.67,"text":"資料鏈 地面管制站"},{"start":16541.67,"end":16543.67,"text":"及感測籌載"},{"start":16543.67,"end":16545.67,"text":"得一併納入採購範疇"},{"start":16546.59,"end":16548.59,"text":"夭壽啊 這個就是美國最先進的啊"},{"start":16549.95,"end":16551.95,"text":"這美國最先進的美國的死神就是這個啊"},{"start":16552.84,"end":16554.84,"text":"那請問 現在你跟美國買死神"},{"start":16554.84,"end":16556.84,"text":"你說 根據我的條例的第三條"},{"start":16556.84,"end":16558.84,"text":"每一採購案都要附加技術移轉嗎"},{"start":16560.87,"end":16562.87,"text":"都要有能夠工業合作條件嗎"},{"start":16562.87,"end":16564.87,"text":"連以色列都不見得做得到啊"},{"start":16565.31,"end":16567.31,"text":"MQ那一批目前有授權給以色列或烏克蘭生產嗎"},{"start":16567.31,"end":16569.31,"text":"愛國者非但愛三行有啊"},{"start":16569.31,"end":16571.31,"text":"愛三行烏克蘭現在要爭取到美國"},{"start":16571.31,"end":16573.31,"text":"讓他在烏克蘭生產愛三行啊"},{"start":16573.31,"end":16575.31,"text":"但是你抓MQ那一批"},{"start":16575.31,"end":16577.31,"text":"死神 有嗎"},{"start":16578.71,"end":16580.71,"text":"連美國這個都不願意釋出來啊"},{"start":16580.71,"end":16582.71,"text":"他掌握這些東西啊"},{"start":16582.71,"end":16584.71,"text":"結果你的第三條這樣寫 第四條這樣寫"},{"start":16584.71,"end":16586.71,"text":"對啊 啊以後我們只要跟美國買死神"},{"start":16586.71,"end":16588.71,"text":"先跟美國說"},{"start":16588.71,"end":16590.71,"text":"欸你那個東西齁 全部的電子系統齁"},{"start":16590.71,"end":16592.71,"text":"你要給我技術移轉喔"},{"start":16592.71,"end":16594.71,"text":"不然我就不能買啊"},{"start":16594.43,"end":16596.43,"text":"那有沒有寫這個條文"},{"start":16596.43,"end":16598.43,"text":"沒寫這個條文我們下次買啦"},{"start":16598.43,"end":16600.43,"text":"現在買了啊"},{"start":16599.11,"end":16601.11,"text":"沒有這個條文也買啦"},{"start":16601.11,"end":16603.11,"text":"那你寫這個條文目的是什麼"},{"start":16604.15,"end":16606.15,"text":"沒有這個條文我們都已經買了嘛"},{"start":16606.85,"end":16608.85,"text":"美國也賣了嘛"},{"start":16608.46,"end":16610.46,"text":"那所以我看啊如果第四條第四三條"},{"start":16610.46,"end":16612.46,"text":"合併在一起看不知道了"},{"start":16612.46,"end":16614.46,"text":"還以為說喔這個很重要"},{"start":16614.46,"end":16616.46,"text":"要幫助我們自主發展 錯"},{"start":16616.46,"end":16618.46,"text":"這第三條第四條合在一起看"},{"start":16618.46,"end":16620.46,"text":"以後我們不能跟美國買死神了啊"},{"start":16621.91,"end":16623.91,"text":"為什麼 因為第三條第四條在一起"},{"start":16623.91,"end":16625.91,"text":"美國只要不肯移轉你死神的技術"},{"start":16625.91,"end":16627.91,"text":"你就不能跟他買"},{"start":16627.22,"end":16629.22,"text":"所以這不是我覺得不同的版本背後的思維"},{"start":16629.22,"end":16631.22,"text":"我們要是把他打穿滿腸來看"},{"start":16634.16,"end":16636.16,"text":"有其他檯面下的目的"},{"start":16636.16,"end":16638.16,"text":"我們不希望一個國防採購"},{"start":16638.16,"end":16640.16,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":16640.16,"end":16642.16,"text":"變成是給我們的國防採購穿小鞋"},{"start":16642.16,"end":16644.16,"text":"幫我們的本土發展"},{"start":16644.87,"end":16646.87,"text":"帶金箍咒"},{"start":16646.87,"end":16648.87,"text":"讓他們穿緊身衣不能好好的發展"},{"start":16648.87,"end":16650.87,"text":"所以還是奉勸主席你現在說第三條"},{"start":16650.87,"end":16652.87,"text":"好我就講第三條"},{"start":16652.87,"end":16654.87,"text":"有人說第四條一起看"},{"start":16654.87,"end":16656.87,"text":"那版本的差異目的不同"},{"start":16656.87,"end":16658.87,"text":"我就不曉得這些要怎麼整合"},{"start":16658.87,"end":16660.87,"text":"難怪你一開始就很灰心"},{"start":16660.87,"end":16662.87,"text":"不可能整合嘛 因為你沒有分類"},{"start":16662.87,"end":16664.87,"text":"當然沒有辦法整合嘛"},{"start":16664.87,"end":16666.87,"text":"沒有整合就要合格言而治保留出委員會"},{"start":16666.87,"end":16668.87,"text":"這樣算完成審查嗎"},{"start":16668.87,"end":16670.87,"text":"到了議員會怎麼處理"},{"start":16669.11,"end":16671.11,"text":"我們委員會的目的就是承院會之命"},{"start":16671.11,"end":16673.11,"text":"能夠幫大院"},{"start":16673.11,"end":16675.11,"text":"幫院會做比較細緻的審查"},{"start":16675.11,"end":16677.11,"text":"所以我馬上讓給謝副委員"},{"start":16677.11,"end":16679.11,"text":"所以我還是希望說"},{"start":16679.11,"end":16681.11,"text":"我們今天好好的審查把這些問題都指出來"},{"start":16681.11,"end":16683.11,"text":"就算是最後主席要保留出委員會"},{"start":16683.11,"end":16685.11,"text":"都要讓這些爭點"},{"start":16685.64,"end":16687.64,"text":"不同的版本的差異"},{"start":16687.64,"end":16689.64,"text":"讓我們的社會大眾"},{"start":16689.64,"end":16691.64,"text":"讓所有關心無人宅具產業的業者"},{"start":16691.64,"end":16693.64,"text":"跟未來我們前線的作戰的官兵"},{"start":16693.64,"end":16695.64,"text":"他們知道他們迫切需要的武器裝備"},{"start":16695.64,"end":16697.64,"text":"在立法院"},{"start":16697.64,"end":16699.64,"text":"到底委員們知不知道他們的需求"},{"start":16701.07,"end":16703.07,"text":"哈哈哈哈"},{"start":16702.5,"end":16704.5,"text":"謝副委員"},{"start":16708.81,"end":16710.81,"text":"第三條"},{"start":16713.27,"end":16715.27,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":16714.89,"end":16716.89,"text":"我雖然比較晚到"},{"start":16716.89,"end":16718.89,"text":"不過我看那個"},{"start":16718.89,"end":16720.89,"text":"從第二條開始這路就走不一樣"},{"start":16721.38,"end":16723.38,"text":"第二條"},{"start":16723.68,"end":16725.68,"text":"從前面就不一樣"},{"start":16725.68,"end":16727.68,"text":"但是從國防部那邊"},{"start":16729.42,"end":16731.42,"text":"其實還是可以有整合的地方"},{"start":16731.42,"end":16733.42,"text":"如果說主席今天只是想說"},{"start":16733.42,"end":16735.42,"text":"念完然後就過去"},{"start":16735.42,"end":16737.42,"text":"這也是一種方式"},{"start":16737.42,"end":16739.42,"text":"但是如果從第二條來看"},{"start":16739.42,"end":16741.42,"text":"這個主管機關是國防部"},{"start":16741.42,"end":16743.42,"text":"那大概就是院版"},{"start":16743.42,"end":16745.42,"text":"跟我們許多民進黨的這個委員"},{"start":16745.42,"end":16747.42,"text":"提出來的版本都一樣"},{"start":16747.42,"end":16749.42,"text":"那接下來但是"},{"start":16749.42,"end":16751.42,"text":"賴思保的他的提案也是"},{"start":16751.42,"end":16753.42,"text":"他第二條他這個515變號後面"},{"start":16753.42,"end":16755.42,"text":"這個主管機關是國防部"},{"start":16755.42,"end":16757.42,"text":"所以我是認為"},{"start":16757.42,"end":16759.42,"text":"真的是要有一個共識"},{"start":16759.42,"end":16761.42,"text":"不是合個言耳制的話"},{"start":16761.42,"end":16763.42,"text":"老實講就是"},{"start":16763.42,"end":16765.42,"text":"行政院版的版本比如說跟我的版本"},{"start":16765.42,"end":16767.42,"text":"還有我們民進黨許多委員的版本"},{"start":16767.42,"end":16769.42,"text":"就是就特別條例的部分"},{"start":16770.49,"end":16772.49,"text":"來這個好好來說一下"},{"start":16772.49,"end":16774.49,"text":"因為至少是特別條例"},{"start":16774.49,"end":16776.49,"text":"然後也是用這個國防部"},{"start":16776.49,"end":16778.49,"text":"是當主管機關我覺得如果從"},{"start":16778.49,"end":16780.49,"text":"這個脈絡來講的話大家比較好談"},{"start":16780.49,"end":16782.49,"text":"那其他像你們"},{"start":16782.49,"end":16784.49,"text":"你們這個民眾黨的版本國民黨的"},{"start":16784.49,"end":16786.49,"text":"版本因為主管機關就是經濟部"},{"start":16786.49,"end":16788.49,"text":"而且我看是去軍事化"},{"start":16788.49,"end":16790.49,"text":"就是以民用的為主"},{"start":16790.49,"end":16792.49,"text":"那就是另外一個系統了"},{"start":16792.49,"end":16794.49,"text":"那基本上就是兩套系統"},{"start":16795.31,"end":16797.31,"text":"基本上你要整合當然就不能整合嘛"},{"start":16797.31,"end":16799.31,"text":"那所以你如果是"},{"start":16799.31,"end":16801.31,"text":"按照這種方式不能整合"},{"start":16801.31,"end":16803.31,"text":"那今天就講完講完那就是送保留"},{"start":16803.31,"end":16805.31,"text":"那當然也可以啊"},{"start":16805.31,"end":16807.31,"text":"因為那是你是主席你要這樣做你想要這樣子處理"},{"start":16807.31,"end":16809.31,"text":"也是可以啊但是如果是真的想要"},{"start":16809.31,"end":16811.31,"text":"來解決這個事情"},{"start":16811.31,"end":16813.31,"text":"那我認為啦因為"},{"start":16813.31,"end":16815.31,"text":"其實這個期錄還沒有走得很遠"},{"start":16815.73,"end":16817.73,"text":"這個我們的原版"},{"start":16817.73,"end":16819.73,"text":"像我的版本跟賴世保的"},{"start":16819.73,"end":16821.73,"text":"主管機關是國防部"},{"start":16821.73,"end":16823.73,"text":"是用特別條例的我們就這條路呢"},{"start":16823.73,"end":16825.73,"text":"就來走一次"},{"start":16825.73,"end":16827.73,"text":"然後其他的這個其他"},{"start":16827.73,"end":16829.73,"text":"版本是經濟部的發展民用的"},{"start":16829.73,"end":16831.73,"text":"這個還要這個"},{"start":16831.73,"end":16833.73,"text":"這個這個這個其他的入境的"},{"start":16833.73,"end":16835.73,"text":"那其他的那再來"},{"start":16835.73,"end":16837.73,"text":"再來做這一個這個說明"},{"start":16837.73,"end":16839.73,"text":"我覺得這樣子才不會"},{"start":16839.73,"end":16841.73,"text":"就是說你因為你弄在一起"},{"start":16841.73,"end":16843.73,"text":"你根本沒辦法去解釋沒辦法去解決"},{"start":16843.73,"end":16845.73,"text":"但是如果把它分開了"},{"start":16845.73,"end":16847.73,"text":"國防部主導的特別條例的我們好好來討論"},{"start":16847.73,"end":16849.73,"text":"我覺得會有共識的"},{"start":16849.73,"end":16851.73,"text":"真的會有共識出來"},{"start":16851.73,"end":16853.73,"text":"然後經濟部的呢這個以經濟部為主導的"},{"start":16853.73,"end":16855.73,"text":"版本呢好好來討論"},{"start":16855.73,"end":16857.73,"text":"我覺得也會有共識出來"},{"start":16857.73,"end":16859.73,"text":"但是你如果硬要把它弄在一起"},{"start":16859.73,"end":16861.73,"text":"這就是這個什麼我今天有聽到一句話"},{"start":16861.73,"end":16863.73,"text":"就是藍草就是把它"},{"start":16863.73,"end":16865.73,"text":"同歸於盡"},{"start":16865.73,"end":16867.73,"text":"什麼"},{"start":16867.73,"end":16869.73,"text":"什麼事情就沒辦法處理"},{"start":16869.73,"end":16871.73,"text":"所以我是建議喔"},{"start":16871.73,"end":16873.73,"text":"是不是我們就這樣子"},{"start":16873.73,"end":16875.73,"text":"國防部為主的特別條例的"},{"start":16875.73,"end":16877.73,"text":"好好來討論一次"},{"start":16877.73,"end":16879.73,"text":"然後呢這個"},{"start":16879.73,"end":16881.73,"text":"經濟部的民用為主的"},{"start":16881.73,"end":16883.73,"text":"然後來討論這樣子比較會聚焦"},{"start":16883.73,"end":16885.73,"text":"會有這個交疊共識產生出來"},{"start":16885.73,"end":16887.73,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":16888.68,"end":16890.68,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":16890.37,"end":16892.37,"text":"因為我們之前已經就這個已經"},{"start":16893.04,"end":16895.04,"text":"我剛剛也說明的很清楚了"},{"start":16895.04,"end":16897.04,"text":"就是結構上就是長這個樣子"},{"start":16897.04,"end":16899.04,"text":"那我也知道要怎樣"},{"start":16899.04,"end":16901.04,"text":"結構上就是不一樣"},{"start":16901.04,"end":16903.04,"text":"所以你不能把結構不一樣的東西把它合在一起"},{"start":16903.04,"end":16905.04,"text":"除非你是故意讓它談不成"},{"start":16905.04,"end":16907.04,"text":"我沒有故意讓它談不成"},{"start":16907.04,"end":16909.04,"text":"這樣就是充分討論"},{"start":16909.04,"end":16911.04,"text":"那就是說大家一定"},{"start":16911.04,"end":16913.04,"text":"有自己的堅持跟力量"},{"start":16913.04,"end":16915.04,"text":"我的意思是說相近的"},{"start":16915.04,"end":16917.04,"text":"脈絡相同的去討論"},{"start":16917.04,"end":16919.04,"text":"比較會有結果"},{"start":16919.04,"end":16921.04,"text":"就是我剛才講的嘛以國防部為主的"},{"start":16921.04,"end":16923.04,"text":"是一個脈絡"},{"start":16923.04,"end":16925.04,"text":"那以這個經濟為主就是一個脈絡"},{"start":16925.04,"end":16927.04,"text":"兩個分開來談我覺得比較會產生共識"},{"start":16927.04,"end":16929.04,"text":"那你如果要合在一起談"},{"start":16929.04,"end":16931.04,"text":"就真的不會有共識啦"},{"start":16931.04,"end":16933.04,"text":"好啦謝謝方偉"},{"start":16933.18,"end":16935.18,"text":"可能剛才那個"},{"start":16935.18,"end":16937.18,"text":"李委員還沒來喔"},{"start":16937.18,"end":16939.18,"text":"那因為我們剛才討論到就是"},{"start":16939.18,"end":16941.18,"text":"剛才賴世寶委員建議他兩個版本要合併"},{"start":16941.18,"end":16943.18,"text":"如果要支持賴委員版本"},{"start":16943.18,"end":16945.18,"text":"他兩個版本要合併"},{"start":16945.18,"end":16947.18,"text":"他就是以經濟部為主管機關"},{"start":16947.18,"end":16949.18,"text":"然後設就是各部會的"},{"start":16949.18,"end":16951.18,"text":"專章這樣子的部分"},{"start":16951.18,"end":16953.18,"text":"那所以不曉得"},{"start":16953.18,"end":16955.18,"text":"是不是就是說"},{"start":16955.18,"end":16957.18,"text":"其他委員有同意"},{"start":16957.18,"end":16959.18,"text":"這樣子的方式"},{"start":16959.18,"end":16961.18,"text":"如果沒有同意我們就必須要往下走"},{"start":16961.16,"end":16963.16,"text":"我們就是保留往下走"},{"start":16963.16,"end":16965.16,"text":"因為基本上來講"},{"start":16965.16,"end":16967.16,"text":"基本上我們在送出的人"},{"start":16967.16,"end":16969.16,"text":"會做這個黨團的第一次協商的時候"},{"start":16969.16,"end":16971.16,"text":"基本上我相信"},{"start":16971.16,"end":16973.16,"text":"大家經過今天的充分討論"},{"start":16973.16,"end":16975.16,"text":"就會去compromise"},{"start":16975.16,"end":16977.16,"text":"一些的版本出來好不好"},{"start":16978.34,"end":16980.34,"text":"這兩句到第四條"},{"start":16983.81,"end":16985.81,"text":"有些人還是可以compromise"},{"start":16987.89,"end":16989.89,"text":"賴世寶委員"},{"start":16990.3,"end":16992.3,"text":"請請他們機關第四條"},{"start":17002.76,"end":17004.76,"text":"好 跟大會報告"},{"start":17004.76,"end":17006.76,"text":"那協商的版本就是針對"},{"start":17006.76,"end":17008.76,"text":"國防部的"},{"start":17008.76,"end":17010.76,"text":"國防自主需求"},{"start":17010.76,"end":17012.76,"text":"要採購無人機的這個項目"},{"start":17012.76,"end":17014.76,"text":"無人機跟自殺無人艇的項目"},{"start":17014.76,"end":17016.76,"text":"那其他委員的版本"},{"start":17016.76,"end":17018.76,"text":"包括像國民黨"},{"start":17019.43,"end":17021.43,"text":"黨團的這個提案的部分"},{"start":17021.43,"end":17023.43,"text":"有提到說測試場域跟"},{"start":17023.43,"end":17025.43,"text":"產業聚樂的這個相關的一些"},{"start":17025.43,"end":17027.43,"text":"條文的部分"},{"start":17027.43,"end":17029.43,"text":"這個部分我想我們已經也納入到"},{"start":17029.43,"end":17031.43,"text":"統籌型計畫"},{"start":17031.43,"end":17033.43,"text":"那也有提到說對中小企業"},{"start":17033.43,"end":17035.43,"text":"要特別扶持的部分"},{"start":17035.43,"end":17037.43,"text":"我想這個在中小企業發展條例裡面"},{"start":17037.43,"end":17039.43,"text":"也都有相關的機制來做輔導"},{"start":17039.43,"end":17041.43,"text":"那至於說還有提到一些"},{"start":17041.43,"end":17043.43,"text":"相關這個無人載具的軟體"},{"start":17043.43,"end":17045.43,"text":"系統整合、維修、工程"},{"start":17045.43,"end":17047.43,"text":"還有訓練的這些事項"},{"start":17047.43,"end":17049.43,"text":"那這個部分是在行政版本第三條"},{"start":17049.43,"end":17051.43,"text":"所訂的這個主要裝備系統"},{"start":17051.43,"end":17053.43,"text":"以及"},{"start":17053.43,"end":17055.43,"text":"其的"},{"start":17055.43,"end":17057.43,"text":"其支援系統的這個採購範圍"},{"start":17057.43,"end":17059.43,"text":"所以我想考慮到這個行政版本"},{"start":17059.43,"end":17061.43,"text":"已經有明定優先採購的這個項目"},{"start":17061.43,"end":17063.43,"text":"那我想可以集中資源"},{"start":17063.43,"end":17065.43,"text":"來推動重點裝備的籌獲"},{"start":17065.43,"end":17067.43,"text":"所以建議支持行政版本"},{"start":17067.43,"end":17069.43,"text":"以上"},{"start":17070.38,"end":17072.38,"text":"安安國防部"},{"start":17076.77,"end":17077.77,"text":"是主席"},{"start":17077.77,"end":17078.77,"text":"各位委員先進"},{"start":17078.77,"end":17080.77,"text":"我想第一個我想先說明"},{"start":17080.77,"end":17082.77,"text":"無人機如果單就無人機來講的話"},{"start":17082.77,"end":17084.77,"text":"我們一二三四五類"},{"start":17084.77,"end":17086.77,"text":"有各種不同類型的無人機"},{"start":17086.77,"end":17088.77,"text":"我想我們這一次的"},{"start":17088.77,"end":17090.77,"text":"採購的第四條採購項目"},{"start":17090.77,"end":17092.77,"text":"在無人機的部分"},{"start":17092.77,"end":17094.77,"text":"比較著重的是在一二類型"},{"start":17094.77,"end":17096.77,"text":"那在臺海黃蕙作戰"},{"start":17096.77,"end":17098.77,"text":"是有很重要的這個需求"},{"start":17098.77,"end":17100.77,"text":"那至於賴委員所提的這些"},{"start":17100.77,"end":17102.77,"text":"我想是屬於另外"},{"start":17102.77,"end":17104.77,"text":"類型的這個無人機"},{"start":17104.77,"end":17106.77,"text":"那各種的無人機本身"},{"start":17106.77,"end":17108.77,"text":"都有他的相關的在作戰面的"},{"start":17108.77,"end":17110.77,"text":"一個運用"},{"start":17110.77,"end":17112.77,"text":"那沒有什麼分成高階或低階的"},{"start":17112.77,"end":17114.77,"text":"我想這一點先說明一下"},{"start":17114.77,"end":17116.77,"text":"因為每一種的無人機"},{"start":17116.77,"end":17118.77,"text":"在各種不同的作戰場域裡面"},{"start":17118.77,"end":17120.77,"text":"都可以發揮充分的戰力"},{"start":17120.77,"end":17122.77,"text":"只要我們的運用"},{"start":17122.77,"end":17124.77,"text":"得當的話這是第一點"},{"start":17124.77,"end":17126.77,"text":"第二點我想任何的條例"},{"start":17126.77,"end":17128.77,"text":"在訂定的時候都必須"},{"start":17128.77,"end":17130.77,"text":"要有他的意義"},{"start":17130.77,"end":17132.77,"text":"也就是說你要訂這一條目的的意義"},{"start":17132.77,"end":17134.77,"text":"那這個意義是什麼"},{"start":17134.77,"end":17136.77,"text":"那剛剛主席以及各位委員都已經講了"},{"start":17136.77,"end":17138.77,"text":"我們這個部分大概就分成"},{"start":17138.77,"end":17140.77,"text":"國防採購跟產業發展"},{"start":17140.77,"end":17142.77,"text":"那我在之前的答詢也已經說過了"},{"start":17142.77,"end":17144.77,"text":"國防的採購"},{"start":17144.77,"end":17146.77,"text":"是我們國防部自主來決定"},{"start":17146.77,"end":17148.77,"text":"那麼產業的發展"},{"start":17148.77,"end":17150.77,"text":"由經濟部來負責"},{"start":17150.77,"end":17152.77,"text":"輔導"},{"start":17152.77,"end":17154.77,"text":"那所以第四條的部分"},{"start":17154.77,"end":17156.77,"text":"我們就列舉了這個採購"},{"start":17156.77,"end":17158.77,"text":"的具體的項目"},{"start":17158.77,"end":17160.77,"text":"那這樣子的一個立法如果通過之後"},{"start":17160.77,"end":17162.77,"text":"我們再請提出特別醫生公大員"},{"start":17162.77,"end":17164.77,"text":"來審議這樣子才有"},{"start":17164.77,"end":17166.77,"text":"訂這個條例的一個就國防採購"},{"start":17166.77,"end":17168.77,"text":"而言才有他的意義性"},{"start":17168.77,"end":17170.77,"text":"那如果說"},{"start":17170.77,"end":17172.77,"text":"大家認為國這個產業的"},{"start":17172.77,"end":17174.77,"text":"無人機的產業發展或無人載機產發展"},{"start":17174.77,"end":17176.77,"text":"很重要的話"},{"start":17177.16,"end":17179.16,"text":"國防部並沒有排除說你另外再訂一個條例"},{"start":17179.16,"end":17181.16,"text":"那所以這個兩個條例是分開的"},{"start":17181.16,"end":17183.16,"text":"那現在要把這個兩個條例"},{"start":17183.16,"end":17185.16,"text":"混在一起"},{"start":17185.16,"end":17187.16,"text":"那已經各位委員先進都已經指教過很多了"},{"start":17187.16,"end":17189.16,"text":"那到底"},{"start":17189.16,"end":17191.16,"text":"我們的國防採購"},{"start":17191.16,"end":17193.16,"text":"這一個提出來的三類"},{"start":17193.16,"end":17195.16,"text":"這個濱海健身型無人機"},{"start":17195.16,"end":17197.16,"text":"濱海攻擊型無人機"},{"start":17197.16,"end":17199.16,"text":"這個濱海攻擊型無人機包括"},{"start":17199.16,"end":17201.16,"text":"曾經是投彈式還有小型跟中型的"},{"start":17201.16,"end":17203.16,"text":"自殺的無人機"},{"start":17203.16,"end":17205.16,"text":"那還有第三個就是小型自殺無人機"},{"start":17205.16,"end":17207.16,"text":"到底各位委員同不同意"},{"start":17207.16,"end":17209.16,"text":"我們進行這樣的採購"},{"start":17209.16,"end":17211.16,"text":"這個要講清楚"},{"start":17211.16,"end":17213.16,"text":"如果這個部分不講清楚"},{"start":17213.16,"end":17215.16,"text":"國防部幾乎沒有辦法在這裡"},{"start":17215.16,"end":17217.16,"text":"做任何的應答"},{"start":17217.16,"end":17219.16,"text":"也就是說到底你們要用"},{"start":17219.16,"end":17221.16,"text":"專章也好你要同意先有一個"},{"start":17221.16,"end":17223.16,"text":"特別條例也好我們都"},{"start":17223.82,"end":17225.82,"text":"接受"},{"start":17224.95,"end":17226.95,"text":"但是你一定要把我們的國防採購計畫"},{"start":17226.95,"end":17228.95,"text":"按照我們的專需先把它列進來"},{"start":17228.95,"end":17230.95,"text":"產業發展的部分"},{"start":17230.95,"end":17232.95,"text":"你們要怎麼去定經濟部主管"},{"start":17232.95,"end":17234.95,"text":"那這另外就定"},{"start":17234.95,"end":17236.95,"text":"兩個事情麻煩"},{"start":17238.11,"end":17240.11,"text":"麻煩就是不要混為一談"},{"start":17240.11,"end":17242.11,"text":"那如果是"},{"start":17242.11,"end":17244.11,"text":"一直在這邊我看討論到現在"},{"start":17244.11,"end":17246.11,"text":"為止我覺得始終"},{"start":17246.11,"end":17248.11,"text":"沒有符合我們"},{"start":17248.11,"end":17250.11,"text":"所提的距離採購的項目"},{"start":17250.11,"end":17252.11,"text":"那沒有辦法符合我們距離的"},{"start":17252.11,"end":17254.11,"text":"採購項目就沒有辦法達到"},{"start":17254.11,"end":17256.11,"text":"我們一開始提出來的我們"},{"start":17256.11,"end":17258.11,"text":"現在透過國防自主來發展"},{"start":17258.11,"end":17260.11,"text":"我們的無人載具"},{"start":17260.11,"end":17262.11,"text":"那特別是我們現在"},{"start":17262.11,"end":17264.11,"text":"所現在提出的我們認為"},{"start":17264.11,"end":17266.11,"text":"我們的國內產業是可以"},{"start":17266.11,"end":17268.11,"text":"有能力來進行的"},{"start":17268.11,"end":17270.11,"text":"那我們希望利用特別預算的方式"},{"start":17270.11,"end":17272.11,"text":"來一個大規"},{"start":17272.11,"end":17274.11,"text":"一個長單然後進行"},{"start":17274.11,"end":17276.11,"text":"迭代創新這樣子的一個"},{"start":17276.11,"end":17278.11,"text":"立法的一個目的"},{"start":17278.11,"end":17280.11,"text":"那希望各位還是希望各位"},{"start":17280.11,"end":17282.11,"text":"能夠支持"},{"start":17283.74,"end":17285.74,"text":"好 我們先到事發委員"},{"start":17285.74,"end":17287.74,"text":"等一下政天才委員"},{"start":17287.51,"end":17289.51,"text":"我發言之前是不是可以請中科院的院長"},{"start":17289.51,"end":17291.51,"text":"跟我們講一下"},{"start":17291.51,"end":17293.51,"text":"中科院有沒有"},{"start":17293.51,"end":17295.51,"text":"能力做整齊的"},{"start":17295.51,"end":17297.51,"text":"整個整合就是製造出來"},{"start":17297.51,"end":17299.51,"text":"可以來做的"},{"start":17299.51,"end":17301.51,"text":"你跟我們說明一下"},{"start":17301.51,"end":17303.51,"text":"可以嗎 因為這個對於化來"},{"start":17303.51,"end":17305.51,"text":"我發現非常重要"},{"start":17307.08,"end":17309.08,"text":"來 請中科院"},{"start":17316.84,"end":17318.84,"text":"在這邊很負責任的說中科院可以做整合"},{"start":17321.59,"end":17323.59,"text":"所以就是說中科院可以做嘛"},{"start":17323.59,"end":17325.59,"text":"那所以你現在要的"},{"start":17325.59,"end":17327.59,"text":"這個部長你們"},{"start":17327.59,"end":17329.59,"text":"你們要的錢是不是有一部分"},{"start":17329.59,"end":17331.59,"text":"就是讓中科院來主導"},{"start":17331.59,"end":17333.59,"text":"跟業者來合作"},{"start":17333.59,"end":17335.59,"text":"他們說民主建"},{"start":17335.59,"end":17337.59,"text":"你們做整齊是不是這個意思"},{"start":17338.44,"end":17340.44,"text":"跟委員報告 我想中科院的部分"},{"start":17340.44,"end":17342.44,"text":"我們會另外有 他的有任何的"},{"start":17342.44,"end":17344.44,"text":"相關文物 我們作戰需求"},{"start":17344.44,"end":17346.44,"text":"我們會用偽製的方式請中科院來做"},{"start":17346.44,"end":17348.44,"text":"我們這一次的部分"},{"start":17348.44,"end":17350.44,"text":"全部是公開採購"},{"start":17350.44,"end":17352.44,"text":"戶數絕標開放給"},{"start":17352.44,"end":17354.44,"text":"所有國內有能力的廠商來進行"},{"start":17354.44,"end":17356.44,"text":"那我們認為經過上行的評估"},{"start":17356.44,"end":17358.44,"text":"我們國內的這一些"},{"start":17358.44,"end":17360.44,"text":"廠商應該都就我們"},{"start":17360.44,"end":17362.44,"text":"所需要的濱海健身型的無人機"},{"start":17362.44,"end":17364.44,"text":"濱海攻擊型無人機跟"},{"start":17364.44,"end":17366.44,"text":"小型的自殺無人體"},{"start":17366.44,"end":17368.44,"text":"我們都要有這個能力來進行"},{"start":17368.44,"end":17370.44,"text":"這個是我們現在"},{"start":17370.44,"end":17372.44,"text":"要達到我們最後在暫時的"},{"start":17372.44,"end":17374.44,"text":"防衛任性從烏克蘭的經驗裡面"},{"start":17374.44,"end":17376.44,"text":"我們需要能夠達到的"},{"start":17376.44,"end":17378.44,"text":"那這個部分如果說大家都"},{"start":17378.44,"end":17380.44,"text":"一直只是在那個條文裡面"},{"start":17380.44,"end":17382.44,"text":"去講說我們要去發展無人載具"},{"start":17382.44,"end":17384.44,"text":"我們要去如何如何"},{"start":17384.44,"end":17386.44,"text":"我們對這件事情從來沒有排斥"},{"start":17386.44,"end":17388.44,"text":"那麼國防部就是要採購到"},{"start":17388.44,"end":17390.44,"text":"我們的"},{"start":17390.44,"end":17392.44,"text":"我們要求的事項"},{"start":17392.44,"end":17394.44,"text":"那在這一點如果說沒有"},{"start":17394.44,"end":17396.44,"text":"通過這一點"},{"start":17396.44,"end":17398.44,"text":"那麼你們就通過其他的這些"},{"start":17398.44,"end":17400.44,"text":"相關的產業發展的事項"},{"start":17401.09,"end":17403.09,"text":"那"},{"start":17402.16,"end":17404.16,"text":"就沒有辦法符合"},{"start":17404.16,"end":17406.16,"text":"我們其中這一次的特別條例"},{"start":17406.16,"end":17408.16,"text":"的一個基本的宗旨嘛"},{"start":17408.16,"end":17410.16,"text":"在這一點上面達到我們"},{"start":17410.16,"end":17412.16,"text":"國防自主採購這一個"},{"start":17412.16,"end":17414.16,"text":"相關符合我們現在認為在"},{"start":17414.16,"end":17416.16,"text":"擦海防衛作戰相當重要的這些"},{"start":17416.16,"end":17418.16,"text":"幾款的這個無人機跟無人體"},{"start":17418.16,"end":17420.16,"text":"是非常重要還是請委員"},{"start":17420.16,"end":17422.16,"text":"支持 好沒有沒有"},{"start":17422.16,"end":17424.16,"text":"我就正跟你講的來來來"},{"start":17423.7,"end":17425.7,"text":"那個院子可以請回來喔"},{"start":17425.7,"end":17427.7,"text":"沒有"},{"start":17426.67,"end":17428.67,"text":"我沒有質詢的意思喔"},{"start":17428.67,"end":17430.67,"text":"今天不是質詢今天是我們法案討論"},{"start":17430.67,"end":17432.67,"text":"但是就你提到的第一個"},{"start":17432.67,"end":17434.67,"text":"滴海兼"},{"start":17434.67,"end":17436.67,"text":"兼真型無人機"},{"start":17436.67,"end":17438.67,"text":"滴海攻擊型無人機"},{"start":17438.67,"end":17440.67,"text":"小型自殺"},{"start":17441.88,"end":17443.88,"text":"無人機"},{"start":17443.09,"end":17445.09,"text":"這三項國力隊的產生可以做嗎"},{"start":17446.54,"end":17448.54,"text":"公開招標"},{"start":17448.12,"end":17450.12,"text":"無人體部分你要不要先講一下"},{"start":17450.12,"end":17452.12,"text":"我所知道無人體沒有辦法有人做了"},{"start":17452.12,"end":17454.12,"text":"有嗎"},{"start":17454.01,"end":17456.01,"text":"都有"},{"start":17456.01,"end":17458.01,"text":"幾家大概幾家"},{"start":17457.88,"end":17459.88,"text":"我想我不需要特別在這邊做"},{"start":17459.88,"end":17461.88,"text":"沒有用的"},{"start":17461.88,"end":17463.88,"text":"我查了資料老方天"},{"start":17463.88,"end":17465.88,"text":"關於這一部分能夠做的就算"},{"start":17465.88,"end":17467.88,"text":"不夠加"},{"start":17467.98,"end":17469.98,"text":"差不多五家左右到十家"},{"start":17469.98,"end":17471.98,"text":"對不對"},{"start":17471.98,"end":17473.98,"text":"然後我們也都清楚剛才一直有委員在指教"},{"start":17473.98,"end":17475.98,"text":"你隨便"},{"start":17475.98,"end":17477.98,"text":"Google一下都知道"},{"start":17477.94,"end":17479.94,"text":"Google一下都知道"},{"start":17479.94,"end":17481.94,"text":"台灣還是很多無人機的關鍵"},{"start":17481.94,"end":17483.94,"text":"零主機沒辦法做的"},{"start":17483.94,"end":17485.94,"text":"比如說你抗鋼纜的部分"},{"start":17485.94,"end":17487.94,"text":"肝腦的部分"},{"start":17487.94,"end":17489.94,"text":"抵抗它"},{"start":17489.94,"end":17491.94,"text":"偷訊的模組這一部分"},{"start":17491.94,"end":17493.94,"text":"高階的工業設計跟模擬的軟體"},{"start":17493.94,"end":17495.94,"text":"這些東西"},{"start":17495.37,"end":17497.37,"text":"台灣還是"},{"start":17496.86,"end":17498.86,"text":"Fall 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,{"start":17700.57,"end":17702.57,"text":"還有其他的各種常識功能"},{"start":17702.77,"end":17704.77,"text":"這個"},{"start":17705.18,"end":17707.18,"text":"那"},{"start":17706.21,"end":17710.21,"text":"比較高高空的這些我們講的這些大型的中大型的這些無人機"},{"start":17710.21,"end":17712.21,"text":"我想這些部分"},{"start":17712.21,"end":17716.21,"text":"不是在我們這一次採購的這個項目的範圍之內"},{"start":17716.21,"end":17720.21,"text":"而比較像是賴委員所您所提出的這些"},{"start":17720.21,"end":17722.21,"text":"這些採購的項目"},{"start":17722.21,"end":17726.21,"text":"所以兩個的這個中指本來就是不一樣"},{"start":17731.91,"end":17733.91,"text":"好 今天才委員發言後休息"},{"start":17733.91,"end":17735.91,"text":"然後後續的我們就休息完再發言"},{"start":17738.96,"end":17740.96,"text":"好好好好這一輪"},{"start":17745.29,"end":17747.29,"text":"主席說"},{"start":17747.08,"end":17751.08,"text":"主席說要休息並不表示我們下午不能發言"},{"start":17751.08,"end":17753.08,"text":"下午還是可以發言"},{"start":17754.88,"end":17756.88,"text":"好 這個"},{"start":17756.97,"end":17758.97,"text":"第四條國防部的行政院的版本"},{"start":17760.6,"end":17762.6,"text":"第四條的第一計畫"},{"start":17762.6,"end":17764.6,"text":"就跟這個"},{"start":17764.6,"end":17766.6,"text":"這個法律名稱一樣"},{"start":17767.36,"end":17769.36,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":17770.03,"end":17772.03,"text":"所以從"},{"start":17771.23,"end":17773.23,"text":"如果我們從第一條到最後一條來看"},{"start":17775.16,"end":17777.16,"text":"看不出國防自主了"},{"start":17778.48,"end":17780.48,"text":"如果要國防自主就一定要由經濟部"},{"start":17782.52,"end":17784.52,"text":"所以這個部分是這樣 基本的"},{"start":17785.69,"end":17787.69,"text":"國防部需要怎麼樣的"},{"start":17788.83,"end":17790.83,"text":"國防部是需要怎麼樣的"},{"start":17791.85,"end":17793.85,"text":"無論再計"},{"start":17793.44,"end":17795.44,"text":"好 今天就分享到這裏"},{"start":17795.44,"end":17797.44,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":17797.44,"end":17799.44,"text":"拜拜"},{"start":17796.64,"end":17798.64,"text":"國防部可以提供給經濟部"},{"start":17799.38,"end":17801.38,"text":"經濟部在跟相關的產業"},{"start":17803.34,"end":17805.34,"text":"國內的產業"},{"start":17805.33,"end":17807.33,"text":"才能達到國防自主"},{"start":17807.33,"end":17809.33,"text":"無論再計"},{"start":17809.5,"end":17811.5,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":17811.07,"end":17813.07,"text":"當然我們這個可以討論國防行政院的版本是直接列舉這三個部分"},{"start":17819.2,"end":17821.2,"text":"那當然這個"},{"start":17821.53,"end":17823.53,"text":"現在的"},{"start":17823.22,"end":17825.22,"text":"這個"},{"start":17826.21,"end":17828.21,"text":"無論再計"},{"start":17827.66,"end":17829.66,"text":"不但"},{"start":17829.11,"end":17831.11,"text":"不斷的在更新"},{"start":17831.11,"end":17833.11,"text":"不斷的在創新"},{"start":17833.06,"end":17835.06,"text":"所以我們也不要小看我們的國內的產業"},{"start":17835.06,"end":17837.06,"text":"所以到底是不是要直接列舉"},{"start":17837.06,"end":17839.06,"text":"大家可以討論"},{"start":17841.97,"end":17843.97,"text":"是不是唯一"},{"start":17843.86,"end":17845.86,"text":"如果要列舉是不是要加個其他"},{"start":17847.42,"end":17849.42,"text":"也可以討論"},{"start":17848.97,"end":17850.97,"text":"但是從整個"},{"start":17850.98,"end":17852.98,"text":"法律的整個"},{"start":17852.99,"end":17854.99,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":17855.22,"end":17857.22,"text":"無論再計才夠"},{"start":17857.46,"end":17859.46,"text":"既然不是"},{"start":17859.46,"end":17861.46,"text":"國防採購無論再計"},{"start":17861.46,"end":17863.46,"text":"既然不是這樣"},{"start":17863.46,"end":17865.46,"text":"是國防自主無論再計"},{"start":17865.68,"end":17867.68,"text":"所以我們這個"},{"start":17867.68,"end":17869.68,"text":"從行政院版本的"},{"start":17868.9,"end":17870.9,"text":"這幾條條文"},{"start":17870.69,"end":17872.69,"text":"就還難達到"},{"start":17872.69,"end":17874.69,"text":"所以我是希望大家能夠"},{"start":17874.86,"end":17876.86,"text":"能夠支持國民黨團的版本"},{"start":17876.86,"end":17878.86,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":17882.42,"end":17884.42,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":17884.48,"end":17886.48,"text":"本黨的版本"},{"start":17886.48,"end":17888.48,"text":"版本當中最重要的"},{"start":17888.48,"end":17890.48,"text":"其實就跟國防部"},{"start":17890.48,"end":17892.48,"text":"差異最大的"},{"start":17892.48,"end":17894.48,"text":"呈現出來說"},{"start":17894.48,"end":17896.48,"text":"黨跟國防部的差距"},{"start":17896.48,"end":17898.48,"text":"這在於說"},{"start":17898.48,"end":17900.48,"text":"不希望說既然它是可以"},{"start":17900.48,"end":17902.48,"text":"國防自主的"},{"start":17902.48,"end":17904.48,"text":"而且還有未來的"},{"start":17904.48,"end":17906.48,"text":"要變成非紅的或者說民主供應鏈的話"},{"start":17906.48,"end":17908.48,"text":"絕對是要很深刻的去"},{"start":17908.48,"end":17910.48,"text":"規劃它整個體系的一個發展"},{"start":17910.48,"end":17912.48,"text":"那因此不能再用"},{"start":17912.48,"end":17914.48,"text":"這種方式的驅動"},{"start":17914.48,"end":17916.48,"text":"而是要用的是市場方面的驅動"},{"start":17916.48,"end":17918.48,"text":"這是最大差異"},{"start":17918.48,"end":17920.48,"text":"這方面沒有解決的話"},{"start":17920.48,"end":17922.48,"text":"我們在國防部它未來"},{"start":17922.48,"end":17924.48,"text":"從到2030年的規劃"},{"start":17924.48,"end":17926.48,"text":"這個前加劇之後"},{"start":17926.48,"end":17928.48,"text":"可能都沒有"},{"start":17928.48,"end":17930.48,"text":"讓它自主的這樣的一個供應鏈"},{"start":17930.48,"end":17932.48,"text":"是呈現出來的"},{"start":17932.48,"end":17934.48,"text":"所以我們才會主張是用"},{"start":17934.48,"end":17936.48,"text":"一般的年度預算來去進行"},{"start":17936.48,"end":17938.48,"text":"這樣的差異性之後"},{"start":17938.48,"end":17940.48,"text":"後續的本黨裡面所呈現"},{"start":17940.48,"end":17942.48,"text":"所以我們本黨的最重要的"},{"start":17942.48,"end":17944.48,"text":"雖然算是還是用無人機的部分"},{"start":17944.48,"end":17946.48,"text":"但是沒有呈現到無人體"},{"start":17946.48,"end":17948.48,"text":"但是以這邊來講"},{"start":17948.48,"end":17950.48,"text":"無人機它就是要飛"},{"start":17950.48,"end":17952.48,"text":"然後要監測等等的"},{"start":17952.48,"end":17954.48,"text":"它包括的從飛航測試認證"},{"start":17954.48,"end":17956.48,"text":"頻譜到出口的"},{"start":17956.48,"end":17958.48,"text":"整個規劃"},{"start":17958.48,"end":17960.48,"text":"跟它的制度都是"},{"start":17960.48,"end":17962.48,"text":"在這邊我們要呈現出來的"},{"start":17962.48,"end":17964.48,"text":"所以如果大家不能夠正視"},{"start":17964.48,"end":17966.48,"text":"這樣的"},{"start":17966.48,"end":17968.48,"text":"或委員沒有正視這樣的一個需求"},{"start":17968.48,"end":17970.48,"text":"我們不必信"},{"start":17970.48,"end":17972.48,"text":"大家就變成說"},{"start":17971.75,"end":17973.75,"text":"到時候就沒有了"},{"start":17973.75,"end":17975.75,"text":"根本沒有辦法達到我們的目的"},{"start":17975.75,"end":17977.75,"text":"更重要的是我們知道說"},{"start":17977.75,"end":17979.75,"text":"在過去的這種無人機的產業當中"},{"start":17979.75,"end":17981.75,"text":"我們的確有發展"},{"start":17981.75,"end":17983.75,"text":"但是還有很多還沒有發展的"},{"start":17983.75,"end":17985.75,"text":"就是說比較在偵測"},{"start":17985.75,"end":17987.75,"text":"或是在遙測的這些能力"},{"start":17987.75,"end":17989.75,"text":"這些能力的部分都需要有些"},{"start":17989.75,"end":17991.75,"text":"更多的能量的"},{"start":17991.75,"end":17993.75,"text":"更多的技術的合作"},{"start":17993.75,"end":17995.75,"text":"但是我們中間也看到說"},{"start":17995.75,"end":17997.75,"text":"有些的是弊案出現了"},{"start":17997.75,"end":17999.75,"text":"或者說有些問題出現了"},{"start":17999.75,"end":18001.75,"text":"所以我們要制度建立好對我們可常可久的"},{"start":18001.75,"end":18003.75,"text":"無人機產業"},{"start":18003.75,"end":18005.75,"text":"而且這個產業是要去支持的"},{"start":18005.75,"end":18007.75,"text":"是國防的這一部分"},{"start":18007.75,"end":18009.75,"text":"所有的整體的目標都往這邊去進行"},{"start":18009.75,"end":18011.75,"text":"因此是我們"},{"start":18011.75,"end":18013.75,"text":"很嚴肅的在認證"},{"start":18013.75,"end":18015.75,"text":"去做這樣的考量"},{"start":18015.75,"end":18017.75,"text":"希望大家能夠知道這樣子的一個弊案"},{"start":18017.75,"end":18019.75,"text":"而不是說"},{"start":18019.75,"end":18021.75,"text":"年度預算這一部分"},{"start":18021.75,"end":18023.75,"text":"去年或是今年115年是比較特殊"},{"start":18023.75,"end":18025.75,"text":"但是大家也知道說好好審預算"},{"start":18025.75,"end":18027.75,"text":"然後預算把它呈現出來之後"},{"start":18027.75,"end":18029.75,"text":"因為重要性已經出現了"},{"start":18030.77,"end":18032.77,"text":"就把它好好的"},{"start":18032.77,"end":18034.77,"text":"剛剛大家所擔憂的"},{"start":18034.77,"end":18036.77,"text":"特別預算的不行的反正國防預算"},{"start":18036.77,"end":18038.77,"text":"國防的支出這邊都是無人機"},{"start":18038.77,"end":18040.77,"text":"是這麼重要的在整個"},{"start":18040.77,"end":18042.77,"text":"不對稱的作用當中台灣又是更需要注重"},{"start":18042.77,"end":18044.77,"text":"這個目標的話當然就會全力的支持"},{"start":18044.77,"end":18046.77,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":18047.47,"end":18049.47,"text":"好"},{"start":18049.56,"end":18051.56,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":18051.34,"end":18053.34,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":18055.13,"end":18057.13,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":18057.13,"end":18059.13,"text":"那其實"},{"start":18059.13,"end":18061.13,"text":"不管是剛剛部長所講 顧部長所講"},{"start":18061.13,"end":18063.13,"text":"或是我們在國防委員會的質詢"},{"start":18063.13,"end":18065.13,"text":"其實部長都已經講得很清楚了"},{"start":18065.13,"end":18067.13,"text":"這個兼徵"},{"start":18067.13,"end":18069.13,"text":"侵的無人機 攻擊侵的無人機"},{"start":18069.13,"end":18071.13,"text":"還有自殺無人體 國內廠商是"},{"start":18071.13,"end":18073.13,"text":"可以做 有這個能力可以做"},{"start":18073.86,"end":18075.86,"text":"那所以不要去懷疑國內廠商的能力"},{"start":18075.86,"end":18077.86,"text":"是第一個"},{"start":18077.86,"end":18079.86,"text":"第二個"},{"start":18079.23,"end":18081.23,"text":"部長就直球對決了"},{"start":18081.69,"end":18083.69,"text":"直球對決就是講說"},{"start":18083.69,"end":18085.69,"text":"那現在國防部有這個需求的"},{"start":18085.69,"end":18087.69,"text":"這三款嘛 剛剛講的"},{"start":18087.69,"end":18089.69,"text":"這個兵海增艦型 攻擊型"},{"start":18089.69,"end":18091.69,"text":"小型 這個自殺無人體"},{"start":18091.69,"end":18093.69,"text":"到底國民黨的代表"},{"start":18093.83,"end":18095.83,"text":"民眾黨代表"},{"start":18095.26,"end":18097.26,"text":"到底同不同意要買"},{"start":18097.61,"end":18099.61,"text":"到底同不同意要買"},{"start":18099.61,"end":18101.61,"text":"那如果同意要買的話"},{"start":18100.78,"end":18102.78,"text":"好 那就OK了"},{"start":18102.78,"end":18104.78,"text":"那你們要去發展"},{"start":18104.78,"end":18106.78,"text":"這一個"},{"start":18106.78,"end":18108.78,"text":"民用的 商用的 一樣去發展"},{"start":18108.78,"end":18110.78,"text":"這沒有衝突"},{"start":18111.45,"end":18113.45,"text":"國防部要的這三款 你們就不要了"},{"start":18114.5,"end":18116.5,"text":"你們就不要了"},{"start":18116.63,"end":18118.63,"text":"那要嘛 如果要的話就可以啊"},{"start":18118.63,"end":18120.63,"text":"我說現在的問題 這是一個"},{"start":18120.63,"end":18122.63,"text":"最關鍵的問題嘛 國民黨"},{"start":18122.63,"end":18124.63,"text":"跟民眾黨要不要這三款"},{"start":18124.63,"end":18126.63,"text":"如果要的話 大家就可以"},{"start":18126.63,"end":18128.63,"text":"繼續往下談了嘛 你們要商用民用的"},{"start":18128.63,"end":18130.63,"text":"那都可以 都可以繼續在發展"},{"start":18130.63,"end":18132.63,"text":"那沒有關係 你們要分五年六年十年"},{"start":18132.63,"end":18134.63,"text":"去發展都OK"},{"start":18134.63,"end":18136.63,"text":"扶持國內廠商都可以"},{"start":18136.63,"end":18138.63,"text":"但是如果這三款你們不要的話"},{"start":18138.63,"end":18140.63,"text":"那如果要"},{"start":18140.63,"end":18142.63,"text":"如果要就可以繼續談嘛"},{"start":18142.63,"end":18144.63,"text":"那國防部"},{"start":18144.63,"end":18146.63,"text":"那最重要其實就是他要買這三樣"},{"start":18146.63,"end":18148.63,"text":"到底這一檔願不願意給"},{"start":18148.63,"end":18150.63,"text":"願不願意讓他通過"},{"start":18150.63,"end":18152.63,"text":"就這麼簡單而已啊"},{"start":18154.54,"end":18156.54,"text":"張教編委"},{"start":18156.69,"end":18158.69,"text":"剛剛我們李委員說到重點"},{"start":18159.98,"end":18161.98,"text":"其實我們看到我們的條文第八頁"},{"start":18163.45,"end":18165.45,"text":"行政案板的第四條"},{"start":18165.45,"end":18167.45,"text":"跟國民黨的提案的第十六條"},{"start":18167.45,"end":18169.45,"text":"你拿來對照一下"},{"start":18169.45,"end":18171.45,"text":"你會發現 如果按照國民黨的提案的第十六條"},{"start":18171.45,"end":18173.45,"text":"他的一二三款"},{"start":18174.3,"end":18176.3,"text":"行政案板的那三款"},{"start":18176.3,"end":18178.3,"text":"通通可以涵蓋在他裡面的第一款的軍用無人載具嘛"},{"start":18178.3,"end":18180.3,"text":"通通可以嘛"},{"start":18180.3,"end":18182.3,"text":"那為什麼不用國民黨團板呢"},{"start":18182.3,"end":18184.3,"text":"因為"},{"start":18184.51,"end":18186.51,"text":"國民黨團板是用年度預算"},{"start":18187.5,"end":18189.5,"text":"年度預算在我們的武器獲制當中"},{"start":18189.5,"end":18191.5,"text":"本來國防部行政院就可以自主編列"},{"start":18191.5,"end":18193.5,"text":"所以如果要按照國民黨說用"},{"start":18193.5,"end":18195.5,"text":"國民黨買用年度預算買"},{"start":18195.5,"end":18197.5,"text":"根本不用再來這邊審特別條例"},{"start":18197.5,"end":18199.5,"text":"今天國防部之所以要"},{"start":18199.5,"end":18201.5,"text":"送特別條例"},{"start":18201.5,"end":18203.5,"text":"是因為要動用到年度預算以外的"},{"start":18203.5,"end":18205.5,"text":"特別預算"},{"start":18205.5,"end":18207.5,"text":"為什麼要動用特別預算"},{"start":18207.5,"end":18209.5,"text":"要有一定的長單"},{"start":18209.5,"end":18211.5,"text":"要跨越我們的預算年度"},{"start":18211.5,"end":18213.5,"text":"那這樣子呢人家才會願意來幫你生產"},{"start":18213.5,"end":18215.5,"text":"那至於"},{"start":18215.5,"end":18217.5,"text":"我們現在要肯定一下行政院板這三款"},{"start":18217.5,"end":18219.5,"text":"的確是目前我們台海作戰最迫切需要的"},{"start":18219.5,"end":18221.5,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":18221.5,"end":18223.5,"text":"這三款都是在防衛台灣海峽的"},{"start":18223.5,"end":18225.5,"text":"前面第一款第二款都是兵海型"},{"start":18225.5,"end":18227.5,"text":"從我們案上"},{"start":18227.5,"end":18229.5,"text":"或者說艦上發射出去"},{"start":18229.5,"end":18231.5,"text":"針箭"},{"start":18231.5,"end":18233.5,"text":"攻擊型"},{"start":18233.5,"end":18235.5,"text":"然後對付所有渡海攻擊的船隊"},{"start":18235.5,"end":18237.5,"text":"我們就要這兩個"},{"start":18237.5,"end":18239.5,"text":"但是還不夠"},{"start":18239.14,"end":18241.14,"text":"因為目前的我們的"},{"start":18241.14,"end":18243.14,"text":"攻擊的無人機"},{"start":18243.14,"end":18245.14,"text":"它的"},{"start":18244.98,"end":18246.98,"text":"它的"},{"start":18245.89,"end":18247.89,"text":"炸藥"},{"start":18247.2,"end":18249.2,"text":"當量有限"},{"start":18249.2,"end":18251.2,"text":"所以能夠承載比較大的彈頭"},{"start":18251.2,"end":18253.2,"text":"是自殺無人艇"},{"start":18252.77,"end":18254.77,"text":"所以無人艇要用來對付"},{"start":18254.77,"end":18256.77,"text":"我們水面上大型的目標"},{"start":18256.77,"end":18258.77,"text":"甚至還有水下的"},{"start":18258.77,"end":18260.77,"text":"那這裡的無人艇因為它水上水下都可以"},{"start":18260.77,"end":18262.77,"text":"涵蓋在內"},{"start":18262.77,"end":18264.77,"text":"那水下的無人載具當然要對付什麼"},{"start":18264.77,"end":18266.77,"text":"對付不要高價值的啊"},{"start":18266.77,"end":18268.77,"text":"像對方的潛艇啊當然不能來威脅啊"},{"start":18268.77,"end":18270.77,"text":"所以我先肯定"},{"start":18269.56,"end":18271.56,"text":"這三項是迫切需要"},{"start":18271.56,"end":18273.56,"text":"來建置我們台海防衛武力的武器"},{"start":18275.13,"end":18277.13,"text":"但是它需要用"},{"start":18277.13,"end":18279.13,"text":"跨年度的特別預算"},{"start":18279.13,"end":18281.13,"text":"來配置才不會排擠到"},{"start":18281.13,"end":18283.13,"text":"我們國防部在年度預算當中所要"},{"start":18283.13,"end":18285.13,"text":"獲制的其他的軍備"},{"start":18285.13,"end":18287.13,"text":"那如果按照國防部這個條款你用年度預算"},{"start":18287.13,"end":18289.13,"text":"寫跟沒寫都一樣國防部都可以買啦"},{"start":18289.13,"end":18291.13,"text":"現在國防部要的是"},{"start":18291.13,"end":18293.13,"text":"我要買這幾項你要不要額外給我一個"},{"start":18293.13,"end":18295.13,"text":"跨年度的特別預算讓我買"},{"start":18295.13,"end":18297.13,"text":"就是這麼一句話而已"},{"start":18297.13,"end":18299.13,"text":"但是我們還是呢要來看一下"},{"start":18299.13,"end":18301.13,"text":"剛剛有幾位委員"},{"start":18301.13,"end":18303.13,"text":"指教的到底我們台海的防衛戰略"},{"start":18303.13,"end":18305.13,"text":"無人載具角色是什麼"},{"start":18305.13,"end":18307.13,"text":"有人說你只要買了就好啦"},{"start":18307.13,"end":18309.13,"text":"買到高階的就可以啊"},{"start":18309.13,"end":18311.13,"text":"大錯特錯"},{"start":18310.65,"end":18312.65,"text":"就像說"},{"start":18311.8,"end":18313.8,"text":"你會養狼狗你會繁殖狼狗"},{"start":18313.8,"end":18315.8,"text":"你會訓練狼狗嗎"},{"start":18317.1,"end":18319.1,"text":"訓練"},{"start":18318.42,"end":18320.42,"text":"跟資料庫是重要的無人載具很重要的一項"},{"start":18320.42,"end":18322.42,"text":"舉例來講"},{"start":18322.42,"end":18324.42,"text":"你可以繁殖狼狗但是狼狗"},{"start":18324.42,"end":18326.42,"text":"沒辦法辨別是好人壞人"},{"start":18327.53,"end":18329.53,"text":"如果不能辨識目標"},{"start":18329.53,"end":18331.53,"text":"這個狼狗養起來你雖然能夠讓歹徒失去攻擊力"},{"start":18331.53,"end":18333.53,"text":"他把好人咬傷了"},{"start":18333.53,"end":18335.53,"text":"你還要賠他"},{"start":18335.53,"end":18337.53,"text":"無人載具的攻擊他不是"},{"start":18337.53,"end":18339.53,"text":"只靠他裝備本身的性能而已"},{"start":18339.53,"end":18341.53,"text":"這裡面還需要一個很長時間的"},{"start":18341.53,"end":18343.53,"text":"培養我舉例來講"},{"start":18343.53,"end":18345.53,"text":"目前以無人艇來講"},{"start":18345.53,"end":18347.53,"text":"目前的無人艇台灣能不能成造啊"},{"start":18347.53,"end":18349.53,"text":"剛剛賴委員說台灣有沒有能力可以知道"},{"start":18349.53,"end":18351.53,"text":"我跟你保證我都去過了"},{"start":18351.37,"end":18353.37,"text":"還不能製造"},{"start":18353.37,"end":18355.37,"text":"問題是製造後好不好用"},{"start":18355.37,"end":18357.37,"text":"其實國防部這邊要思考一下"},{"start":18357.48,"end":18359.48,"text":"基本上目前"},{"start":18359.48,"end":18361.48,"text":"我們過去的"},{"start":18361.48,"end":18363.48,"text":"達到目標去自殺型的無人載具"},{"start":18363.48,"end":18365.48,"text":"到達目標去之前"},{"start":18365.48,"end":18367.48,"text":"你可以用衛星導航你可以用電磁波導航"},{"start":18367.48,"end":18369.48,"text":"那當然後者有被偵測的風險"},{"start":18369.48,"end":18371.48,"text":"你用衛星導航"},{"start":18371.48,"end":18373.48,"text":"也會被干擾的風險"},{"start":18373.48,"end":18375.48,"text":"你用圖像導航"},{"start":18375.48,"end":18377.48,"text":"這個好一點最後要能夠"},{"start":18377.48,"end":18379.48,"text":"這個過程當中要能夠避障"},{"start":18379.48,"end":18381.48,"text":"要能夠鎖定目標你需要知道說"},{"start":18381.48,"end":18383.48,"text":"誰是目標誰不是目標"},{"start":18383.48,"end":18385.48,"text":"總不能航不浪蕩看到水面艦艇就打吧"},{"start":18385.48,"end":18387.48,"text":"打到自己的船怎麼辦"},{"start":18387.48,"end":18389.48,"text":"要針對對方的艦艇打"},{"start":18389.48,"end":18391.48,"text":"那對方的艦艇長什麼樣子"},{"start":18391.48,"end":18393.48,"text":"有收集這個圖資嗎"},{"start":18391.92,"end":18393.92,"text":"其實不是買裝備而已"},{"start":18393.92,"end":18395.92,"text":"還要買整套的訓練"},{"start":18395.92,"end":18397.92,"text":"跟他背後的資源系統"},{"start":18397.92,"end":18399.92,"text":"這才是我們今天看到國防部行政院的版本當中"},{"start":18399.92,"end":18401.92,"text":"我們認為這個項目要"},{"start":18401.92,"end":18403.92,"text":"但是這個項目背後"},{"start":18403.92,"end":18405.92,"text":"整套的這些"},{"start":18405.92,"end":18407.92,"text":"支撐這個作戰目標的"},{"start":18407.92,"end":18409.92,"text":"這些都要去獲制"},{"start":18409.92,"end":18411.92,"text":"我在講一個剛剛在談到反制無人機"},{"start":18412.51,"end":18414.51,"text":"反制無人機最大的問題是什麼"},{"start":18415.28,"end":18417.28,"text":"你要是用被動雷達去偵測他的電磁波"},{"start":18417.28,"end":18419.28,"text":"你要知道他電磁波特徵"},{"start":18419.28,"end":18421.28,"text":"現在無人機的導航"},{"start":18421.28,"end":18423.28,"text":"控制用的都是4G"},{"start":18423.28,"end":18425.28,"text":"5G的一個頻道"},{"start":18425.28,"end":18427.28,"text":"那現在我們台灣大家拿的手機"},{"start":18427.28,"end":18429.28,"text":"4G 5G的誰知道這個空中"},{"start":18429.28,"end":18431.28,"text":"的電磁波是無人機發出來的"},{"start":18431.28,"end":18433.28,"text":"所以首先反制無人機"},{"start":18433.28,"end":18435.28,"text":"要先辨識哪些是目標"},{"start":18435.28,"end":18437.28,"text":"他要有大量的現存"},{"start":18437.28,"end":18439.28,"text":"在使用的無人機"},{"start":18439.28,"end":18441.28,"text":"他的電磁波特徵"},{"start":18441.28,"end":18443.28,"text":"就像森納要知道鯨魚跟海豚"},{"start":18443.28,"end":18445.28,"text":"跟潛艇是不一樣的"},{"start":18445.28,"end":18447.28,"text":"你要有森納的生文資料"},{"start":18447.28,"end":18449.28,"text":"你沒有生文資料庫你怎麼知道你的目標在哪裡"},{"start":18449.28,"end":18451.28,"text":"你要打誰呢"},{"start":18451.28,"end":18453.28,"text":"所以這些都不是一個所謂的裝備"},{"start":18453.28,"end":18455.28,"text":"到底台灣能不能生產"},{"start":18455.28,"end":18457.28,"text":"裝備台灣有辦法生產"},{"start":18457.28,"end":18459.28,"text":"但是台灣生產的裝備"},{"start":18459.28,"end":18461.28,"text":"有沒有辦法透過適當的訓練"},{"start":18460.1,"end":18462.1,"text":"跟資料庫能夠建置其他完成他的作戰目標"},{"start":18462.1,"end":18464.1,"text":"這才是我們在看這個國防預算"},{"start":18464.1,"end":18466.1,"text":"我們甚至背後進一步要去追究的一個內容"},{"start":18466.1,"end":18468.1,"text":"所以反制無人機"},{"start":18468.1,"end":18470.1,"text":"如果你沒辦法"},{"start":18471.78,"end":18473.78,"text":"判斷他的電磁波特徵"},{"start":18473.78,"end":18475.78,"text":"你如何去發射干擾信號"},{"start":18475.78,"end":18477.78,"text":"你如何讓他強迫降落"},{"start":18477.78,"end":18479.78,"text":"他會跳屏你怎麼知道他會跳什麼屏"},{"start":18479.78,"end":18481.78,"text":"現在的無人載具的干擾跟反干擾"},{"start":18481.78,"end":18483.78,"text":"是個碟對碟"},{"start":18483.78,"end":18485.78,"text":"我要怎麼去辨評"},{"start":18485.58,"end":18487.58,"text":"你要抓得到啊"},{"start":18487.58,"end":18489.58,"text":"不然我跳屏跳屏你都抓不到我"},{"start":18489.58,"end":18491.58,"text":"你根本沒有辦法反制我"},{"start":18491.58,"end":18493.58,"text":"更不要說你如果最後不是用電磁波引導"},{"start":18493.58,"end":18495.58,"text":"你是用其他的影像引導"},{"start":18495.58,"end":18497.58,"text":"你連軟砂都做不到"},{"start":18497.58,"end":18499.58,"text":"所以這種情況之下"},{"start":18499.58,"end":18501.58,"text":"我們希望再來看看民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":18501.58,"end":18503.58,"text":"因為民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":18503.58,"end":18505.58,"text":"他是放在第二條當中"},{"start":18505.58,"end":18507.58,"text":"有一個很大的問題"},{"start":18507.58,"end":18509.58,"text":"我特別要指出來"},{"start":18509.58,"end":18511.58,"text":"因為主席在這裡特別要跟主席來回應一下"},{"start":18511.58,"end":18513.58,"text":"因為你們這個部分說"},{"start":18513.58,"end":18515.58,"text":"最後一項"},{"start":18515.58,"end":18517.58,"text":"本條例所稱可信任供應鏈"},{"start":18517.58,"end":18519.58,"text":"指無人機系統即其關鍵的88888"},{"start":18519.58,"end":18521.58,"text":"這些要符合主管機關公告之可信任供應鏈的分級認證制度"},{"start":18525.32,"end":18527.32,"text":"這個是什麼"},{"start":18527.32,"end":18529.32,"text":"在美國就是GREEM U"},{"start":18529.54,"end":18531.54,"text":"SA"},{"start":18530.64,"end":18532.64,"text":"Blu USA"},{"start":18532.64,"end":18534.64,"text":"Blu跟GREEM目前我所知道"},{"start":18534.64,"end":18536.64,"text":"經濟部公園院"},{"start":18536.64,"end":18538.64,"text":"已經取得了Blu的"},{"start":18538.64,"end":18540.64,"text":"GREEM認證授權"},{"start":18540.63,"end":18542.63,"text":"未來這個Blu的均用等級"},{"start":18542.63,"end":18544.63,"text":"我們還在爭取當中"},{"start":18544.63,"end":18546.63,"text":"可能是金屬中心下去爭取"},{"start":18546.63,"end":18548.63,"text":"不管是GREEM或是Blu"},{"start":18548.63,"end":18550.63,"text":"這些所謂可信任供應鏈的分級認證制度"},{"start":18550.63,"end":18552.63,"text":"我認為這的確是需要"},{"start":18552.63,"end":18554.63,"text":"但是問題是你這些寫說"},{"start":18554.63,"end":18556.63,"text":"本條例所稱可信任供應鏈"},{"start":18556.63,"end":18558.63,"text":"這些東西要符合"},{"start":18560.08,"end":18562.08,"text":"關於這個東西"},{"start":18562.08,"end":18564.08,"text":"如果我們Follow美國的GREEM或Blu"},{"start":18564.08,"end":18566.08,"text":"那很抱歉啦這就不是我們主管機關"},{"start":18566.08,"end":18568.08,"text":"他所能夠去左右的"},{"start":18568.08,"end":18570.08,"text":"這個就是對方在左右的對方的規格怎麼開"},{"start":18570.08,"end":18572.08,"text":"你要怎麼跟"},{"start":18572.08,"end":18574.08,"text":"所以其實把這些看起來"},{"start":18574.08,"end":18576.08,"text":"好像是很重要"},{"start":18576.08,"end":18578.08,"text":"很關鍵的這樣條文規定下來"},{"start":18578.08,"end":18580.08,"text":"在執行上有沒有符合實況"},{"start":18580.89,"end":18582.89,"text":"所以目前台灣連Blu跟GREEM"},{"start":18582.89,"end":18584.89,"text":"都還要去跟美方取得授權"},{"start":18584.89,"end":18586.89,"text":"在我們國內去做一些共通規格的產製"},{"start":18586.89,"end":18588.89,"text":"那你在這種情況"},{"start":18588.89,"end":18590.89,"text":"你馬上寫進來"},{"start":18590.89,"end":18592.89,"text":"到底是在扶植本國的無人載具產業"},{"start":18592.89,"end":18594.89,"text":"還是在扼殺本國的無人載具產業"},{"start":18594.89,"end":18596.89,"text":"所以我是覺得這些內容"},{"start":18596.89,"end":18598.89,"text":"都是可以來討論的"},{"start":18598.89,"end":18600.89,"text":"其實我們是很希望說"},{"start":18600.89,"end":18602.89,"text":"經濟部跟國防部他們未來"},{"start":18602.89,"end":18604.89,"text":"國防部需要獲制他們可以"},{"start":18604.89,"end":18606.89,"text":"供有效使用的武器"},{"start":18606.89,"end":18608.89,"text":"那經濟部要想辦法"},{"start":18608.89,"end":18610.89,"text":"要想辦法讓國內可以繼續的產製"},{"start":18610.89,"end":18612.89,"text":"不然的話以我們台灣"},{"start":18612.89,"end":18614.89,"text":"以前台灣人要說是赤衛之島"},{"start":18614.89,"end":18616.89,"text":"為什麼我們是全世界"},{"start":18616.89,"end":18618.89,"text":"飛彈密度最高的"},{"start":18618.89,"end":18620.89,"text":"但是從烏克蘭今天我們看得到"},{"start":18620.89,"end":18622.89,"text":"你只靠攔截飛彈這麼昂貴"},{"start":18622.89,"end":18624.89,"text":"容易耗損庫存"},{"start":18624.89,"end":18626.89,"text":"不容易補充的高價值"},{"start":18626.89,"end":18628.89,"text":"或者高性能的軍備"},{"start":18628.89,"end":18630.89,"text":"你很難支撐"},{"start":18630.89,"end":18632.89,"text":"對岸攻擊方用大量"},{"start":18632.89,"end":18634.89,"text":"消耗式的持久攻擊"},{"start":18634.89,"end":18636.89,"text":"所以我們看到發展不對勢戰力當中"},{"start":18636.89,"end":18638.89,"text":"這些量多價廉"},{"start":18638.89,"end":18640.89,"text":"而且可以自行持續生產補充的無人載具"},{"start":18640.89,"end":18642.89,"text":"這就是我們目標"},{"start":18642.89,"end":18644.89,"text":"國防部為什麼一開始要開這個"},{"start":18644.89,"end":18646.89,"text":"特別預算去買這個"},{"start":18646.89,"end":18648.89,"text":"用這個長單來買這些內容"},{"start":18648.89,"end":18650.89,"text":"這就是我們目的我們要能夠生產什麼"},{"start":18650.89,"end":18652.89,"text":"不是在靠飛彈愛國者飛彈來攔截對岸的攻擊"},{"start":18652.89,"end":18654.89,"text":"我們要靠我們的這些無人艇"},{"start":18654.89,"end":18656.89,"text":"靠人的兵海型的無人機"},{"start":18656.89,"end":18658.89,"text":"去消滅"},{"start":18658.89,"end":18660.89,"text":"去對抗他們派來的船隊"},{"start":18660.89,"end":18662.89,"text":"或其他的對海的跨海攻擊"},{"start":18662.89,"end":18664.89,"text":"我們需要的是這一個"},{"start":18664.89,"end":18666.89,"text":"那如果國防部這個講清楚了"},{"start":18666.89,"end":18668.89,"text":"大家支持了"},{"start":18668.89,"end":18670.89,"text":"希望大家就支持用特別預算"},{"start":18670.89,"end":18672.89,"text":"來支持購買這三種的無人載具"},{"start":18672.89,"end":18674.89,"text":"至於後面其他的內容"},{"start":18674.89,"end":18676.89,"text":"包括說他的一個可信賴供應鏈"},{"start":18676.89,"end":18678.89,"text":"他的分級認證制度"},{"start":18678.89,"end":18680.89,"text":"目前我們的國產條例有分三級"},{"start":18680.89,"end":18682.89,"text":"那我看國產的這三級可能不夠用"},{"start":18682.89,"end":18684.89,"text":"可能經濟部跟國防部還要努力的去發展其他的集數"},{"start":18684.89,"end":18686.89,"text":"不過因為民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":18686.89,"end":18688.89,"text":"它重點在於"},{"start":18688.89,"end":18690.89,"text":"不是在於我們軍備的獲得"},{"start":18690.89,"end":18692.89,"text":"武器的獲得"},{"start":18692.89,"end":18694.89,"text":"它重點在於產業的扶植"},{"start":18694.89,"end":18696.89,"text":"所以這個的確對產業是重要的"},{"start":18696.89,"end":18698.89,"text":"但是如果放在我們現在採購目的"},{"start":18698.89,"end":18700.89,"text":"是為了"},{"start":18699.99,"end":18701.99,"text":"健全會完備我們的軍備"},{"start":18701.99,"end":18703.99,"text":"那這個條文寫進去"},{"start":18703.99,"end":18705.99,"text":"不見得有幫助於國防部"},{"start":18705.99,"end":18707.99,"text":"可以迅速的獲得我們所需要的裝備"},{"start":18707.99,"end":18709.99,"text":"以上來跟我們的"},{"start":18711.32,"end":18713.32,"text":"主席來就教我們民眾黨團"},{"start":18713.32,"end":18715.32,"text":"這樣的一個條文內容"},{"start":18715.32,"end":18717.32,"text":"有沒有思考到未來真的如果實行的話"},{"start":18717.32,"end":1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及這個李坤城委員的"},{"start":21299.37,"end":21301.37,"text":"版本是兩千四百億元的特別預算"},{"start":21301.37,"end":21303.37,"text":"那其餘的版本都列"},{"start":21303.37,"end":21305.37,"text":"是列兩千一百億元"},{"start":21305.37,"end":21307.37,"text":"特別預算"},{"start":21307.11,"end":21309.11,"text":"那另外就是"},{"start":21309.66,"end":21311.66,"text":"這個王定宇委員的版本"},{"start":21311.66,"end":21313.66,"text":"沒有訂這個經費的"},{"start":21313.66,"end":21315.66,"text":"總的上限"},{"start":21315.66,"end":21317.66,"text":"那才一年一起編列特別預算"},{"start":21318.25,"end":21320.25,"text":"那另外賴斯巴委員的版本"},{"start":21320.25,"end":21322.25,"text":"A是採500億元特別預算"},{"start":21322.25,"end":21324.25,"text":"並提撥至少"},{"start":21324.25,"end":21326.25,"text":"70%的辦理技術預算"},{"start":21326.39,"end":21328.39,"text":"那另外國民黨版本"},{"start":21328.39,"end":21330.39,"text":"則採6年每年400億元的"},{"start":21330.39,"end":21332.39,"text":"年度特別預算"},{"start":21332.39,"end":21334.39,"text":"總額是兩千四百億元"},{"start":21334.39,"end":21336.39,"text":"那我們這邊"},{"start":21336.39,"end":21338.39,"text":"是建立就是說"},{"start":21338.39,"end":21340.39,"text":"因為用特別預算的這個編列"},{"start":21340.39,"end":21342.39,"text":"比較"},{"start":21342.39,"end":21344.39,"text":"容易"},{"start":21343.11,"end":21345.11,"text":"呃 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謝謝"},{"start":21367.61,"end":21367.850000000002,"text":"啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊"},{"start":21369.81,"end":21371.81,"text":"主席各位我想"},{"start":21372.64,"end":21373.14,"text":"yo"},{"start":21373.82,"end":21374.32,"text":"in"},{"start":21374.82,"end":21378.82,"text":"條例我們還是一再的強調要有他的目的性"},{"start":21379.29,"end":21382.29,"text":"那我我們的就是一個特別條例"},{"start":21382.29,"end":21385.79,"text":"那目的就是要以特別預算方式來編列"},{"start":21385.79,"end":21388.29,"text":"那如果說不編入特別"},{"start":21389.89,"end":21392.89,"text":"不以特別條例然後編入特別預算的話"},{"start":21392.89,"end":21396.89,"text":"那每年應該要怎麼樣編列年度預算"},{"start":21396.89,"end":21397.89,"text":"那就是我們"},{"start":21398.73,"end":21400.73,"text":"行政院"},{"start":21399.94,"end":21401.94,"text":"的權責啊這個我想"},{"start":21402.93,"end":21404.93,"text":"無待於立法再來明定"},{"start":21405.73,"end":21407.73,"text":"這應該是很清楚的一件"},{"start":21409.01,"end":21411.01,"text":"事情嘛而且"},{"start":21411.01,"end":21413.01,"text":"說"},{"start":21412.26,"end":21414.26,"text":"國民黨團體案這個"},{"start":21414.26,"end":21418.26,"text":"無人的宰居是包括所有的無人宰居"},{"start":21418.26,"end":21420.26,"text":"也沒有特定的項目"},{"start":21420.26,"end":21422.26,"text":"然後說"},{"start":21422.26,"end":21425.26,"text":"這個中央政府允許年度預算編列"},{"start":21426.35,"end":21428.35,"text":"每年就編列"},{"start":21428.78,"end":21432.78,"text":"我想所有的無人宰居我們到時候應該要編列多少這個"},{"start":21433.73,"end":21435.73,"text":"這個應該是我們行政院"},{"start":21437.25,"end":21439.25,"text":"本於我們光復的提議"},{"start":21439.25,"end":21441.25,"text":"然後以及我們收斷許久"},{"start":21441.25,"end":21443.25,"text":"就各種各樣的無人宰居"},{"start":21443.25,"end":21447.25,"text":"在年度預算我們都會有不同方式的不同金額"},{"start":21447.51,"end":21449.51,"text":"不同這個需求項目的編列嘛"},{"start":21449.51,"end":21451.51,"text":"那"},{"start":21450.99,"end":21452.99,"text":"我想立法"},{"start":21453.34,"end":21455.34,"text":"直接下一個指導起訴我們"},{"start":21455.34,"end":21457.34,"text":"就所有的無人宰居"},{"start":21457.34,"end":21459.34,"text":"的這個部分"},{"start":21459.28,"end":21461.28,"text":"就"},{"start":21460.27,"end":21462.27,"text":"加上他在16頭所提出的其他"},{"start":21462.27,"end":21466.27,"text":"兩款跟這個產業經濟盤有關的項目"},{"start":21467.29,"end":21469.29,"text":"就每年要編列"},{"start":21469.29,"end":21471.29,"text":"就每年要編列410"},{"start":21471.29,"end":21473.29,"text":"也就只編列410"},{"start":21473.29,"end":21475.29,"text":"也只能准編列410"},{"start":21475.29,"end":21477.29,"text":"那也要求要編列410"},{"start":21477.29,"end":21479.29,"text":"那我覺得"},{"start":21479.29,"end":21481.29,"text":"那到了立法院來以後立法院到底要如何審查"},{"start":21481.29,"end":21483.29,"text":"這樣的年度預算"},{"start":21482.61,"end":21484.61,"text":"我個人實在是完全無法理解"},{"start":21484.61,"end":21486.61,"text":"我也沒辦法能夠"},{"start":21488.1,"end":21490.1,"text":"同意這樣的一個立法方式"},{"start":21490.1,"end":21492.1,"text":"那說"},{"start":21492.1,"end":21494.1,"text":"這是合乎這個立法院"},{"start":21494.1,"end":21496.1,"text":"跟行政權這個分立"},{"start":21496.1,"end":21498.1,"text":"行政院負責編列預算"},{"start":21498.1,"end":21500.1,"text":"立法院負責審查預算"},{"start":21500.1,"end":21502.1,"text":"這樣的一個非常基本"},{"start":21502.1,"end":21504.1,"text":"淺顯的一個道理"},{"start":21506.04,"end":21508.04,"text":"謝謝國防部"},{"start":21508.2,"end":21510.2,"text":"好,求而言"},{"start":21511.42,"end":21513.42,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":21513.42,"end":21515.42,"text":"我想針對這個第五條"},{"start":21515.42,"end":21519.42,"text":"也看同步看到國民黨團的提案的第15條"},{"start":21519.84,"end":21521.84,"text":"這個國民黨團的提案是要求"},{"start":21521.84,"end":21523.84,"text":"這個採購條例"},{"start":21524.82,"end":21526.82,"text":"把它編列在年度預算裡頭"},{"start":21526.82,"end":21528.82,"text":"那也"},{"start":21528.82,"end":21530.82,"text":"我來是不是能夠再"},{"start":21530.82,"end":21532.82,"text":"就教一下國防部"},{"start":21532.82,"end":21534.82,"text":"每年編列400億"},{"start":21534.82,"end":21536.82,"text":"的意思是說"},{"start":21536.82,"end":21538.82,"text":"你每年只有400億可以花"},{"start":21539.79,"end":21541.79,"text":"那如果國防部需要一個"},{"start":21541.79,"end":21543.79,"text":"長單訂購"},{"start":21543.79,"end":21545.79,"text":"你今年的採購可能需要"},{"start":21545.79,"end":21547.79,"text":"多一點的經費的時候"},{"start":21547.79,"end":21549.79,"text":"但是你這個年度只編列400億"},{"start":21549.79,"end":21551.79,"text":"那你能不能採購"},{"start":21551.79,"end":21553.79,"text":"你能不能動用"},{"start":21553.79,"end":21555.79,"text":"又或者你到第五年的時候"},{"start":21555.79,"end":21557.79,"text":"你其實根本不需要"},{"start":21557.83,"end":21559.83,"text":"到400億的採購"},{"start":21559.83,"end":21561.83,"text":"可是立法院立的法又規定你"},{"start":21561.83,"end":21563.83,"text":"必須要編列400億去採購"},{"start":21563.83,"end":21565.83,"text":"那請問你要採購什麼東西"},{"start":21565.83,"end":21567.83,"text":"你要買什麼東西"},{"start":21569.64,"end":21571.64,"text":"好"},{"start":21570.35,"end":21572.35,"text":"過去"},{"start":21572.09,"end":21574.09,"text":"還是還再講一次"},{"start":21574.09,"end":21576.09,"text":"當然立法委員這麼久"},{"start":21576.09,"end":21578.09,"text":"我實在是沒有看過這樣的一個"},{"start":21578.09,"end":21580.09,"text":"國防採購的預算"},{"start":21580.56,"end":21582.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21582.56,"end":21584.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21584.56,"end":21586.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21586.56,"end":21588.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21588.56,"end":21590.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21590.56,"end":21592.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21592.56,"end":21594.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21594.56,"end":21596.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21596.56,"end":21598.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21598.56,"end":21600.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21600.56,"end":21602.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21602.56,"end":21604.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21604.56,"end":21606.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21606.56,"end":21608.56,"text":"那這個對於國防需求上面來講"},{"start":21591.61,"end":21593.61,"text":"彈性不見了"},{"start":21593.61,"end":21595.61,"text":"自主性不見了"},{"start":21595.61,"end":21597.61,"text":"需求性也不見了"},{"start":21597.13,"end":21599.13,"text":"那請問這樣的採購"},{"start":21599.44,"end":21601.44,"text":"到底有沒有意義"},{"start":21601.44,"end":21603.44,"text":"他是為了採購而採購"},{"start":21603.44,"end":21605.44,"text":"還是真的是可以"},{"start":21605.44,"end":21607.44,"text":"符合現在現階段"},{"start":21607.44,"end":21609.44,"text":"台灣的國防需求"},{"start":21610.32,"end":21612.32,"text":"來去做採購"},{"start":21612.32,"end":21614.32,"text":"這個我想也要再次提出來"},{"start":21614.32,"end":21616.32,"text":"行政院版的2100億"},{"start":21616.32,"end":21618.32,"text":"其實我們用特別條例"},{"start":21618.32,"end":21620.32,"text":"特別預算去支應"},{"start":21620.32,"end":21622.32,"text":"今天早上我也提過"},{"start":21622.32,"end":21624.32,"text":"特別條例"},{"start":21625.8,"end":21627.8,"text":"特別預算"},{"start":21627.8,"end":21629.8,"text":"每一個預算每一個採購項目"},{"start":21629.8,"end":21631.8,"text":"其實都是清楚可見"},{"start":21631.8,"end":21633.8,"text":"那不會被呼嚨掉"},{"start":21633.8,"end":21635.8,"text":"不會被含糊掉"},{"start":21635.8,"end":21637.8,"text":"也可以非常清楚知道國防部"},{"start":21637.8,"end":21639.8,"text":"需要怎麼樣的"},{"start":21639.23,"end":21641.23,"text":"這樣的採購編列"},{"start":21641.23,"end":21643.23,"text":"所以我還是"},{"start":21643.77,"end":21645.77,"text":"不太懂國民黨的"},{"start":21645.77,"end":21647.77,"text":"奇案內容"},{"start":21647.77,"end":21649.77,"text":"這個我是不是能夠再請部長"},{"start":21649.77,"end":21651.77,"text":"也再說明一下好不好"},{"start":21651.77,"end":21653.77,"text":"好 請部長"},{"start":21656.38,"end":21658.38,"text":"國防部再次表達"},{"start":21658.38,"end":21660.38,"text":"就是說"},{"start":21659.99,"end":21661.99,"text":"我們"},{"start":21661.99,"end":21663.99,"text":"今天所列出來的"},{"start":21663.99,"end":21665.99,"text":"在第四條所列的採購項目"},{"start":21665.99,"end":21667.99,"text":"是"},{"start":21667.99,"end":21669.99,"text":"非常的明確"},{"start":21669.99,"end":21671.99,"text":"也非常明確的表示要用特別預算"},{"start":21671.99,"end":21673.99,"text":"這不表示"},{"start":21673.99,"end":21675.99,"text":"我們所需要的無人載具"},{"start":21675.99,"end":21677.99,"text":"只有這些"},{"start":21677.99,"end":21679.99,"text":"所以我們的無人載具"},{"start":21679.99,"end":21681.99,"text":"範圍會包括"},{"start":21681.99,"end":21683.99,"text":"隨著這個"},{"start":21683.99,"end":21685.99,"text":"我們的作戰需求"},{"start":21685.99,"end":21687.99,"text":"我們相關的建案"},{"start":21687.92,"end":21689.92,"text":"那個完整以後"},{"start":21689.92,"end":21691.92,"text":"我們會再有提出其他的"},{"start":21691.92,"end":21693.92,"text":"一些需求"},{"start":21693.92,"end":21695.92,"text":"像我們現在MQ-9B"},{"start":21695.92,"end":21697.92,"text":"會再進行交裝"},{"start":21697.92,"end":21699.92,"text":"那這個MQ-9B事實上"},{"start":21699.92,"end":21701.92,"text":"我們就是擺在我們的年度"},{"start":21701.92,"end":21703.92,"text":"預算裡面"},{"start":21703.92,"end":21705.92,"text":"那我們還會有一些地面的"},{"start":21705.92,"end":21707.92,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":21707.92,"end":21709.92,"text":"甚至以之後如果這個成熟"},{"start":21709.92,"end":21711.92,"text":"我們還有水下的無人載具"},{"start":21711.92,"end":21713.92,"text":"這些都會放在我們相關"},{"start":21713.92,"end":21715.92,"text":"做成建案之後"},{"start":21715.92,"end":21717.92,"text":"提出相關的這些需求"},{"start":21717.92,"end":21719.92,"text":"所以立法上面"},{"start":21719.92,"end":21721.92,"text":"給我們的一個授權"},{"start":21721.92,"end":21723.92,"text":"一定是要明確的"},{"start":21723.92,"end":21725.92,"text":"我們現在明確的就是這三款"},{"start":21725.92,"end":21727.92,"text":"的無人載具"},{"start":21727.92,"end":21729.92,"text":"那這三款的無人載具"},{"start":21729.92,"end":21731.92,"text":"我們打算用特別預算的方式"},{"start":21731.92,"end":21733.92,"text":"那其目的"},{"start":21733.92,"end":21735.92,"text":"已經講過非常多次"},{"start":21735.92,"end":21737.92,"text":"我就不再贅述"},{"start":21737.92,"end":21739.92,"text":"但是沒有辦法能夠想像說"},{"start":21739.92,"end":21741.92,"text":"所有的無人載具在立法上"},{"start":21742.61,"end":21744.61,"text":"要求我們在行年度預算的程序的時候"},{"start":21746.81,"end":21748.81,"text":"會直接明定要求我們每年"},{"start":21748.81,"end":21750.81,"text":"應該要編列多少錢"},{"start":21750.81,"end":21752.81,"text":"這件事情"},{"start":21753.69,"end":21755.69,"text":"在我來講這個是"},{"start":21755.69,"end":21757.69,"text":"無從想像的一件事情"},{"start":21757.78,"end":21759.78,"text":"那"},{"start":21758.61,"end":21760.61,"text":"他發生很多問題"},{"start":21760.61,"end":21762.61,"text":"第一個我們如果在那一年"},{"start":21762.61,"end":21764.61,"text":"沒有就這個無人載具"},{"start":21764.61,"end":21766.61,"text":"編組到400億有沒有違法"},{"start":21766.61,"end":21768.61,"text":"第二個我們超過400億"},{"start":21768.61,"end":21770.61,"text":"有沒有違法第三個立法院"},{"start":21770.61,"end":21772.61,"text":"砍掉剩下不足400億"},{"start":21772.61,"end":21774.61,"text":"有沒有違法"},{"start":21775.29,"end":21777.29,"text":"我沒有辦法回答任何一個這樣的問題"},{"start":21779.09,"end":21781.09,"text":"這樣的立法"},{"start":21781.88,"end":21783.88,"text":"我"},{"start":21782.94,"end":21784.94,"text":"我沒有辦法能夠想像是有在促進無人機"},{"start":21784.94,"end":21786.94,"text":"對我們國防需求的一個"},{"start":21786.94,"end":21788.94,"text":"迫切性的一個"},{"start":21788.94,"end":21790.94,"text":"一個立法目的"},{"start":21794.79,"end":21796.79,"text":"好中交病委有沒有辦法"},{"start":21796.79,"end":21798.79,"text":"那個鄭天才委員"},{"start":21803.91,"end":21805.91,"text":"今天是立法"},{"start":21806.8,"end":21808.8,"text":"好"},{"start":21807.61,"end":21809.61,"text":"我也再強調到現在為止"},{"start":21810.39,"end":21812.39,"text":"好"},{"start":21811.83,"end":21813.83,"text":"都還沒有說明"},{"start":21813.65,"end":21815.65,"text":"什麼叫國防自主"},{"start":21815.65,"end":21817.65,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":21819.3,"end":21821.3,"text":"從第一條到最後一條看不到國防自主了"},{"start":21823.32,"end":21825.32,"text":"只看到"},{"start":21825.36,"end":21827.36,"text":"這邊特別一算"},{"start":21827.98,"end":21829.98,"text":"這是第一個"},{"start":21829.46,"end":21831.46,"text":"第二個"},{"start":21830.81,"end":21832.81,"text":"剛才部長"},{"start":21833.07,"end":21835.07,"text":"講的"},{"start":21835.71,"end":21837.71,"text":"你說你用特別條例"},{"start":21838.68,"end":21840.68,"text":"一算二還是要送來啊"},{"start":21842.1,"end":21844.1,"text":"一算二還是要送來"},{"start":21844.7,"end":21846.7,"text":"那你說立法院"},{"start":21846.7,"end":21848.7,"text":"砍"},{"start":21847.87,"end":21849.87,"text":"本來就可以砍"},{"start":21850.73,"end":21852.73,"text":"那法律還明確了"},{"start":21852.73,"end":21854.73,"text":"當然大家就不會砍"},{"start":21856.01,"end":21858.01,"text":"好"},{"start":21858.1,"end":21860.1,"text":"國民黨團所提的"},{"start":21861.48,"end":21863.48,"text":"好"},{"start":21863.11,"end":21865.11,"text":"國民黨所談團提的還明確"},{"start":21867.82,"end":21869.82,"text":"一個年度多少錢"},{"start":21871.04,"end":21873.04,"text":"大家就去尊重立法院"},{"start":21873.04,"end":21875.04,"text":"去尊重這個自己所提的法律案"},{"start":21875.04,"end":21877.04,"text":"所通過的法律案"},{"start":21877.51,"end":21879.51,"text":"也就不會有什麼砍不砍的問題"},{"start":21880.46,"end":21882.46,"text":"所以按照你剛才的邏輯"},{"start":21883.23,"end":21885.23,"text":"好像法律明定的還可以砍"},{"start":21886.97,"end":21888.97,"text":"所以這個部分是一個矛盾的"},{"start":21890.04,"end":21892.04,"text":"那另外就是說"},{"start":21892.32,"end":21894.32,"text":"因為"},{"start":21893.44,"end":21895.44,"text":"這個是"},{"start":21895.85,"end":21897.85,"text":"產業跟國防"},{"start":21898.14,"end":21900.14,"text":"共同的"},{"start":21899.58,"end":21901.58,"text":"是共同的"},{"start":21901.77,"end":21903.77,"text":"所以不是只有你國防部的"},{"start":21905.2,"end":21907.2,"text":"是包含產業的"},{"start":21907.88,"end":21909.88,"text":"你國防部認為"},{"start":21910.63,"end":21912.63,"text":"好"},{"start":21911.49,"end":21913.49,"text":"是白玉太多"},{"start":21913.21,"end":21915.21,"text":"每年是白玉太多"},{"start":21915.27,"end":21917.27,"text":"當然不是只有你還有產業"},{"start":21919.12,"end":21921.12,"text":"還有產業"},{"start":21921.99,"end":21923.99,"text":"是這樣的一個情形"},{"start":21924.33,"end":21926.33,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":21926.24,"end":21928.24,"text":"如果你認為"},{"start":21928.27,"end":21930.27,"text":"行政院所分配的每年400億"},{"start":21932.52,"end":21934.52,"text":"經濟部產業界"},{"start":21935.34,"end":21937.34,"text":"中科院"},{"start":21936.89,"end":21938.89,"text":"跟國防部你認為你的不夠"},{"start":21940.01,"end":21942.01,"text":"你的年度預算也可以去編的"},{"start":21944.06,"end":21946.06,"text":"除了這個400億之外"},{"start":21946.06,"end":21948.06,"text":"你還是一樣可以去編的"},{"start":21948.45,"end":21950.45,"text":"所以沒有去"},{"start":21950.34,"end":21952.34,"text":"反對你去編的"},{"start":21953.51,"end":21955.51,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":21956.14,"end":21960.14,"text":"因為從頭到尾我們既然是談"},{"start":21960.6,"end":21962.6,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":21962.61,"end":21964.61,"text":"無人載技"},{"start":21964.36,"end":21966.36,"text":"那就是要跟產業一起結合"},{"start":21967.94,"end":21969.94,"text":"所以必須要有"},{"start":21969.98,"end":21971.98,"text":"經濟部"},{"start":21971.6,"end":21973.6,"text":"跟產業"},{"start":21974.27,"end":21976.27,"text":"共同的來去推動"},{"start":21976.27,"end":21978.27,"text":"以上"},{"start":21979.68,"end":21981.68,"text":"好"},{"start":21980.78,"end":21982.78,"text":"中嘉賓委員完"},{"start":21982.78,"end":21984.78,"text":"然後之後賴氏寶委員"},{"start":21984.73,"end":21986.73,"text":"好"},{"start":21986.82,"end":21988.82,"text":"剛剛讓不同的政黨的不同版本表示意見"},{"start":21988.82,"end":21990.82,"text":"但是我徵詢了我們民眾黨團"},{"start":21990.82,"end":21992.82,"text":"並沒有要表示意見"},{"start":21992.82,"end":21994.82,"text":"他說他們並沒有編列預算"},{"start":21994.82,"end":21996.82,"text":"所以這一題就不參與"},{"start":21996.82,"end":21998.82,"text":"那我想那就很清楚"},{"start":21998.82,"end":22000.82,"text":"目前呢"},{"start":22000.82,"end":22002.82,"text":"有14個版本"},{"start":22002.82,"end":22004.82,"text":"那其中呢"},{"start":22004.82,"end":22006.82,"text":"有12個版本有要動資預算"},{"start":22006.82,"end":22008.82,"text":"有兩個版本"},{"start":22008.82,"end":22010.82,"text":"並沒有要動資預算"},{"start":22010.82,"end":22012.82,"text":"就是分別是賴氏寶委員的V版"},{"start":22012.82,"end":22014.82,"text":"跟民眾黨的版本"},{"start":22014.82,"end":22016.82,"text":"那12個要動資預算的版本當中"},{"start":22016.82,"end":22018.82,"text":"多數"},{"start":22018.82,"end":22020.82,"text":"就是有11個版本"},{"start":22020.82,"end":22022.82,"text":"是主張使用特別預算"},{"start":22022.82,"end":22024.82,"text":"那剛剛攻聯了我們"},{"start":22024.82,"end":22026.82,"text":"政委員的一番談話"},{"start":22026.82,"end":22028.82,"text":"我想呢"},{"start":22028.82,"end":22030.82,"text":"之前我也稍微的在公聽會的時候"},{"start":22030.82,"end":22032.82,"text":"有用這個方式讓大家理解"},{"start":22032.82,"end":22034.82,"text":"一般民眾的確不能區分"},{"start":22034.82,"end":22036.82,"text":"中央政府的年度預算"},{"start":22036.82,"end":22038.82,"text":"跟特別預算"},{"start":22038.82,"end":22040.82,"text":"怎麼樣去區分"},{"start":22040.82,"end":22042.82,"text":"那我就打個比方"},{"start":22041.99,"end":22043.99,"text":"念大學的孩子"},{"start":22043.99,"end":22045.99,"text":"跟爸爸要錢"},{"start":22045.99,"end":22047.99,"text":"要買電腦"},{"start":22048.37,"end":22050.37,"text":"要4萬塊"},{"start":22050.68,"end":22052.68,"text":"那因為呢"},{"start":22052.68,"end":22054.68,"text":"爸爸每個月給孩子1萬的生活費"},{"start":22054.68,"end":22056.68,"text":"要付房租要付伙食"},{"start":22056.68,"end":22058.68,"text":"要付手機要付這些零花"},{"start":22058.68,"end":22060.68,"text":"那每個月1萬塊"},{"start":22060.68,"end":22062.68,"text":"要再買個電腦呢"},{"start":22062.68,"end":22064.68,"text":"不另外跟爸爸請款不行"},{"start":22064.68,"end":22066.68,"text":"結果爸爸一聽電腦"},{"start":22066.68,"end":22068.68,"text":"喔對不起他說我要3萬買電腦"},{"start":22068.68,"end":22070.68,"text":"爸爸說3萬太少啦"},{"start":22070.56,"end":22072.56,"text":"現在呢晶片都漲價了"},{"start":22072.56,"end":22074.56,"text":"我給你4萬買電腦"},{"start":22074.56,"end":22076.56,"text":"但是呢請你從你每個月"},{"start":22076.56,"end":22078.56,"text":"1萬元的零用錢自己扣"},{"start":22078.27,"end":22080.27,"text":"請問如果就用我們一個月的零"},{"start":22080.27,"end":22082.27,"text":"每個月1萬塊的零用錢"},{"start":22082.27,"end":22084.27,"text":"我還要另外去請款嗎"},{"start":22084.48,"end":22086.48,"text":"現在我們的年度預算"},{"start":22086.48,"end":22090.48,"text":"就好比是固定中央政府要支出的項目"},{"start":22091.4,"end":22093.4,"text":"這些項目在國安部的部分"},{"start":22093.4,"end":22095.4,"text":"都已經有律定要進行的軍備採購"},{"start":22096.86,"end":22098.86,"text":"那麼無人載具這三款"},{"start":22098.86,"end":22100.86,"text":"為什麼要另外"},{"start":22100.86,"end":22102.86,"text":"一筆完整的預算來執行"},{"start":22102.86,"end":22104.86,"text":"其實剛剛部長也講了"},{"start":22104.86,"end":22106.86,"text":"那如果說大家不健忘的話"},{"start":22106.86,"end":22108.86,"text":"我願意再幫他複習一下"},{"start":22110.82,"end":22112.82,"text":"其實以MQ9B來說"},{"start":22112.82,"end":22114.82,"text":"我們就是用年度預算採購的"},{"start":22116.57,"end":22118.57,"text":"那這個有沒有需要立法院"},{"start":22118.57,"end":22120.57,"text":"通過一個特別條例"},{"start":22120.57,"end":22122.57,"text":"才能去購買啊沒有啊"},{"start":22122.57,"end":22124.57,"text":"因為行政權他基於國防需要"},{"start":22124.57,"end":22126.57,"text":"他就可以編在年度預算去採購"},{"start":22126.57,"end":22128.57,"text":"如果立法院有不同意見"},{"start":22128.57,"end":22130.57,"text":"你大可在年度預算審查的時候"},{"start":22130.57,"end":22132.57,"text":"你去做一些"},{"start":22132.72,"end":22134.72,"text":"一些調整山或洞"},{"start":22135.85,"end":22137.85,"text":"這個都可以的"},{"start":22137.3,"end":22139.3,"text":"但是MQ9B好像"},{"start":22140.66,"end":22142.66,"text":"在野黨也並沒有認為不需要"},{"start":22142.66,"end":22144.66,"text":"所以我們很辛苦的千金萬武的"},{"start":22144.66,"end":22146.66,"text":"我們籌獲了這幾架珍貴的"},{"start":22149.18,"end":22151.18,"text":"戰略價值的資產"},{"start":22151,"end":22153,"text":"好那現在國防部很清楚的講了"},{"start":22153,"end":22155,"text":"我現有的預算規模"},{"start":22155,"end":22157,"text":"我額外的還需要"},{"start":22157,"end":22159,"text":"去添購這三款的無人載具"},{"start":22159,"end":22161,"text":"那其他的無人載具呢"},{"start":22161,"end":22163,"text":"其他無人載具目前按照國防部的規劃"},{"start":22163,"end":22167,"text":"按照他們既有的年度預算的額度"},{"start":22167,"end":22169,"text":"他們可以來進行"},{"start":22169,"end":22171,"text":"能夠來進行支配"},{"start":22172.13,"end":22174.13,"text":"但是為什麼這三款"},{"start":22174.13,"end":22181.13,"text":"需要一個2100億到2031年之前去執行完畢呢"},{"start":22181.81,"end":22183.81,"text":"過去也講了很多了"},{"start":22183.79,"end":22187.79,"text":"這三款就是台海防衛需要的大量裝備"},{"start":22187.79,"end":22191.79,"text":"而且是屬於很多是屬於消耗型的裝備"},{"start":22191.79,"end":22193.79,"text":"而且這個消耗我們要有能力"},{"start":22193.79,"end":22195.79,"text":"自行產製補充"},{"start":22196.61,"end":22198.61,"text":"不是像愛國者飛彈"},{"start":22198.61,"end":22200.61,"text":"愛國者飛彈打完了"},{"start":22199.99,"end":22201.99,"text":"就要再跟美國調"},{"start":22202,"end":22204,"text":"但是呢如果這三款"},{"start":22204.22,"end":22206.22,"text":"在未來的需要"},{"start":22206.22,"end":22208.22,"text":"不管是演訓用掉"},{"start":22208.22,"end":22210.22,"text":"還是真正的狀況發生用掉"},{"start":22210.22,"end":22212.22,"text":"我們還有源源不斷的後勤能力"},{"start":22212.22,"end":22214.22,"text":"來自主生產供應"},{"start":22214.74,"end":22217.74,"text":"所以上午一直有委員關心這三款"},{"start":22217.74,"end":22219.74,"text":"到底我們本國有沒有產製能力"},{"start":22219.74,"end":22221.74,"text":"我也可以很負責任的說"},{"start":22221.74,"end":22223.74,"text":"就跟東科院的院長一樣"},{"start":22224.44,"end":22226.44,"text":"我們是有能力生產的"},{"start":22226.16,"end":22229.16,"text":"但是我們有沒有廠商現在要投產"},{"start":22229.76,"end":22230.76,"text":"抱歉"},{"start":22230.87,"end":22235.87,"text":"沒有整架整機要投產的這樣的一個完整的規劃"},{"start":22235.93,"end":22238.93,"text":"因為投資產生產"},{"start":22238.93,"end":22239.93,"text":"它要幾個情況"},{"start":22239.93,"end":22240.93,"text":"第一"},{"start":22241.52,"end":22243.52,"text":"它的規模要夠大"},{"start":22243.52,"end":22245.52,"text":"我才值得我去設置產線"},{"start":22245.52,"end":22247.52,"text":"我們很多人有能力做"},{"start":22247.52,"end":22249.52,"text":"但是呢因為規模不大"},{"start":22249.52,"end":22251.52,"text":"我不會再去設置產線"},{"start":22251.52,"end":22252.52,"text":"如果不設置產線"},{"start":22252.52,"end":22253.52,"text":"我要跟別人share"},{"start":22254.04,"end":22255.04,"text":"像光電球"},{"start":22255.04,"end":22257.04,"text":"我們去跟東歐買"},{"start":22257.04,"end":22258.04,"text":"可以人家不賣你"},{"start":22258.04,"end":22260.04,"text":"人家現在大部分都供應給烏克蘭"},{"start":22260.04,"end":22262.04,"text":"他幹嘛要分他的工"},{"start":22263.02,"end":22265.02,"text":"我再講一個很具體的"},{"start":22265.02,"end":22268.02,"text":"現在烏克蘭使用的長程製造無人機"},{"start":22268.02,"end":22270.02,"text":"他用的噴射引擎"},{"start":22270.02,"end":22272.02,"text":"是小型渦輪噴射引擎"},{"start":22272.7,"end":22275.7,"text":"結果目前世界上過去有在生產的"},{"start":22275.7,"end":22277.7,"text":"因為小型渦輪噴射引擎的市場很小"},{"start":22277.7,"end":22279.7,"text":"航模的玩家在用"},{"start":22280.09,"end":22283.09,"text":"就偏偏的有台灣有一家工廠在生產"},{"start":22283.09,"end":22284.09,"text":"而且還做得不錯"},{"start":22284.09,"end":22285.09,"text":"CP值很高"},{"start":22285.61,"end":22287.61,"text":"所以後來烏克蘭透過其他國家"},{"start":22287.61,"end":22289.61,"text":"來跟台灣進口"},{"start":22290.51,"end":22292.51,"text":"可以說目前這個世界"},{"start":22292.51,"end":22295.51,"text":"原來做航模的小型渦輪噴射引擎的廠商"},{"start":22295.51,"end":22297.51,"text":"他現在全年的產量"},{"start":22297.51,"end":22300.51,"text":"都全部給烏克蘭的需求給吃掉了"},{"start":22301.63,"end":22304.63,"text":"那你說現在我們要他再生產供應給我們的國軍"},{"start":22304.63,"end":22305.63,"text":"那他當然說好啊"},{"start":22305.63,"end":22307.63,"text":"那我要設置產線"},{"start":22307.63,"end":22310.63,"text":"產線設置下去一年要一萬粒一萬顆"},{"start":22310.63,"end":22311.63,"text":"你吃得下來嗎"},{"start":22312.46,"end":22314.46,"text":"那我們國安部算一算可能啊"},{"start":22314.46,"end":22316.46,"text":"可是我不是一年一萬顆啊"},{"start":22316.46,"end":22319.46,"text":"我六年我五年我可能需要這個量"},{"start":22319.46,"end":22321.46,"text":"那你幫我建置產線好不好"},{"start":22321.46,"end":22322.46,"text":"我是打個比方"},{"start":22322.46,"end":22323.46,"text":"假設狀況"},{"start":22323.46,"end":22324.46,"text":"那人家才會願意生產啊"},{"start":22325.1,"end":22327.1,"text":"我們的廠商是有能力生產的"},{"start":22327.1,"end":22329.1,"text":"但是如果你沒有一個規模"},{"start":22329.1,"end":22332.1,"text":"他不會再額外的去製造設置產線"},{"start":22332.1,"end":22334.1,"text":"因為開發產線需要投資"},{"start":22334.1,"end":22338.1,"text":"那這次單單指未來這種消耗型的這三款"},{"start":22338.1,"end":22340.1,"text":"他需要在國內有產製能力"},{"start":22340.1,"end":22342.1,"text":"另外一個類似的就是晶片"},{"start":22342.94,"end":22344.94,"text":"晶片你開模不要說開模"},{"start":22344.94,"end":22345.94,"text":"開模是慣用語啦"},{"start":22345.94,"end":22347.94,"text":"這個主席一定更了解啦"},{"start":22347.94,"end":22348.94,"text":"沒有上萬顆"},{"start":22349.7,"end":22350.7,"text":"誰會幫你開啊"},{"start":22351.29,"end":22352.29,"text":"你的設計"},{"start":22353.31,"end":22355.31,"text":"啊"},{"start":22354.29,"end":22356.29,"text":"封裝這些所有的生產過程"},{"start":22356.29,"end":22359.29,"text":"如果沒有幾萬顆幾十萬顆的晶片"},{"start":22359.29,"end":22361.29,"text":"沒有人會幫你生產"},{"start":22361.29,"end":22363.29,"text":"所以國安部這邊需要這三款"},{"start":22363.86,"end":22365.86,"text":"為什麼晶片這麼重要"},{"start":22366.11,"end":22370.11,"text":"晶片越否認物專對政府來設計"},{"start":22370.11,"end":22371.11,"text":"他會越輕巧"},{"start":22371.79,"end":22375.79,"text":"當然目前以我們國內這些在設計無人載具的產業"},{"start":22375.79,"end":22377.79,"text":"他們用現有的晶片還是可以組裝成"},{"start":22377.79,"end":22379.79,"text":"達成任務的無人載具"},{"start":22379.79,"end":22382.79,"text":"但是可能他的系統就會比較龐大"},{"start":22382.79,"end":22384.79,"text":"晶片不能輕薄短小"},{"start":22384.79,"end":22385.79,"text":"要做自殺型的任務"},{"start":22385.79,"end":22387.79,"text":"最好將所有的功能all 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,{"start":22857.44,"end":22859.44,"text":"買來技術預算就可以用特別預算"},{"start":22859.44,"end":22861.44,"text":"買來國防保衛台灣"},{"start":22861.44,"end":22862.44,"text":"就不能用特別預算"},{"start":22862.44,"end":22864.44,"text":"買來國防保衛台灣"},{"start":22865.82,"end":22866.82,"text":"你的邏輯不通"},{"start":22866.82,"end":22868.82,"text":"我不是部長你真的"},{"start":22868.82,"end":22869.82,"text":"你的條文就不是這樣寫"},{"start":22869.82,"end":22870.82,"text":"你的條文不是寫"},{"start":22870.82,"end":22872.82,"text":"買來做技術預轉"},{"start":22872.82,"end":22876.82,"text":"你是買來還不受預算法限制"},{"start":22876.82,"end":22877.82,"text":"請你看清楚"},{"start":22877.82,"end":22879.82,"text":"你的條文根本就不是這樣寫"},{"start":22879.82,"end":22880.82,"text":"不是啦你講這個"},{"start":22880.82,"end":22881.82,"text":"你一定要扯我的就"},{"start":22881.82,"end":22884.82,"text":"請你看一下第四頁"},{"start":22884.82,"end":22887.82,"text":"第四頁我的裡面就有了"},{"start":22887.82,"end":22890.82,"text":"前項採購應付加技術預轉"},{"start":22890.82,"end":22891.82,"text":"及工業合作條件"},{"start":22891.82,"end":22893.82,"text":"請看清楚我的第四頁"},{"start":22894.85,"end":22896.85,"text":"你的條文就不是採購"},{"start":22896.85,"end":22897.85,"text":"好"},{"start":22897.85,"end":22899.85,"text":"我們請一下這個羅叔兵尾"},{"start":22901.08,"end":22903.08,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":22903.08,"end":22906.08,"text":"剛才中嘉賓委員所提到的"},{"start":22906.08,"end":22908.08,"text":"MQ9B的無人機"},{"start":22908.08,"end":22910.08,"text":"在有的廠商台灣廠商"},{"start":22910.08,"end":22911.08,"text":"他自己"},{"start":22911.08,"end":22912.08,"text":"我沒有這樣講"},{"start":22912.08,"end":22914.08,"text":"我說無人載去台灣能生產"},{"start":22914.08,"end":22915.08,"text":"我沒有說MQ9B台灣能生產"},{"start":22915.08,"end":22916.08,"text":"這差很多"},{"start":22916.08,"end":22918.08,"text":"但是你看說有一個"},{"start":22918.08,"end":22919.08,"text":"有一個"},{"start":22919.08,"end":22921.08,"text":"而且它是烏克蘭的長程噴射轟炸機"},{"start":22921.8,"end":22924.8,"text":"然後這個長程噴射轟炸機是被"},{"start":22924.8,"end":22925.8,"text":"是用到有個機械"},{"start":22925.8,"end":22926.8,"text":"是用到我們台灣的對不對"},{"start":22928.3,"end":22930.3,"text":"對小型渦輪噴射引擎"},{"start":22930.3,"end":22931.3,"text":"但是用到"},{"start":22931.3,"end":22932.3,"text":"那沒關係很好"},{"start":22932.3,"end":22933.3,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":22933.3,"end":22934.3,"text":"那他但是因為是用到"},{"start":22934.3,"end":22936.3,"text":"我們台灣廠商的技術對不對"},{"start":22937.09,"end":22938.09,"text":"大家晚安"},{"start":22939.18,"end":22940.18,"text":"對啊那非常好啊"},{"start":22940.18,"end":22942.18,"text":"我就就是要呼應這一點"},{"start":22942.18,"end":22944.18,"text":"因為這個廠商他並"},{"start":22944.18,"end":22946.18,"text":"你看特別講到他並不是"},{"start":22946.18,"end":22947.18,"text":"因為有政府的"},{"start":22947.18,"end":22948.18,"text":"或是說"},{"start":22948.18,"end":22949.18,"text":"政府的資助"},{"start":22949.18,"end":22951.18,"text":"是他自己本身自主的研發出來的"},{"start":22951.18,"end":22952.18,"text":"就讓你他的市場性"},{"start":22952.18,"end":22954.18,"text":"就是有這樣的市場性"},{"start":22954.18,"end":22956.18,"text":"所以人家看到的需求"},{"start":22956.18,"end":22957.18,"text":"而且這個我剛才看到說"},{"start":22957.18,"end":22959.18,"text":"這個需求在於是長程的部分"},{"start":22959.18,"end":22960.18,"text":"對不對"},{"start":22960.18,"end":22961.18,"text":"那這個長程部分"},{"start":22961.18,"end":22962.18,"text":"就在於說"},{"start":22962.2,"end":22963.2,"text":"對那現在問題是"},{"start":22963.2,"end":22964.2,"text":"我們如果用到假定"},{"start":22964.2,"end":22968.2,"text":"他自己是看他是全世界市場的需求"},{"start":22968.2,"end":22969.2,"text":"那台灣如果是生產這個部分"},{"start":22969.2,"end":22971.2,"text":"他根本就沒有一個"},{"start":22971.2,"end":22972.2,"text":"沒有一千到兩千公里"},{"start":22972.2,"end":22975.2,"text":"他打到大陸去嗎"},{"start":22975.2,"end":22977.2,"text":"所以這個地方所呈現出來"},{"start":22977.2,"end":22979.2,"text":"你這個問的就是"},{"start":22979.2,"end":22981.2,"text":"莫斯科就是忽然就打到莫斯科"},{"start":22981.2,"end":22982.2,"text":"我跟你們講"},{"start":22982.2,"end":22983.2,"text":"我說的一樣講是說"},{"start":22983.2,"end":22985.2,"text":"市場的出"},{"start":22985.2,"end":22986.2,"text":"我們重點是在"},{"start":22986.2,"end":22987.2,"text":"我們是國防自主"},{"start":22987.2,"end":22989.2,"text":"然後還有所謂出口的"},{"start":22989.2,"end":22990.2,"text":"這樣的一個需求"},{"start":22990.2,"end":22992.2,"text":"那但是現在我們最重要的是"},{"start":22992.2,"end":22993.2,"text":"要用這種"},{"start":22994.26,"end":22996.26,"text":"能夠遏阻中共來侵犯我們"},{"start":22996.26,"end":22998.26,"text":"而不是說你還在打回去"},{"start":22998.26,"end":22999.26,"text":"打回去也許是"},{"start":22999.26,"end":23000.26,"text":"可能可能"},{"start":23000.26,"end":23001.26,"text":"這個是現在我們就才不阻"},{"start":23001.26,"end":23003.26,"text":"這一定是先自己能夠防衛到"},{"start":23003.26,"end":23004.26,"text":"他們才可能打回去"},{"start":23004.26,"end":23005.26,"text":"重點我要說的是"},{"start":23005.26,"end":23008.26,"text":"因為我們的廠商就有這種能力"},{"start":23008.26,"end":23010.26,"text":"他的出口需求是全世界的"},{"start":23010.26,"end":23011.26,"text":"而且沒有經過國"},{"start":23011.26,"end":23012.26,"text":"我們政府的這個支出"},{"start":23012.26,"end":23013.26,"text":"他就有這樣的能力"},{"start":23013.26,"end":23014.26,"text":"這才是我們要說的"},{"start":23015.52,"end":23017.52,"text":"自主的國防自主的產業的"},{"start":23017.52,"end":23018.52,"text":"最重要的達到目的"},{"start":23018.52,"end":23019.52,"text":"因此"},{"start":23019.52,"end":23020.52,"text":"博恩大本黨的"},{"start":23020.52,"end":23021.52,"text":"已經看到這個狀況了"},{"start":23021.52,"end":23023.52,"text":"所以我們的需求"},{"start":23023.52,"end":23024.52,"text":"我們的提供出來就是用"},{"start":23024.52,"end":23026.52,"text":"本身的自己的能力"},{"start":23026.52,"end":23027.52,"text":"可以達到就可以"},{"start":23027.52,"end":23029.52,"text":"就是你要有市場驅動力"},{"start":23029.52,"end":23031.52,"text":"而不是要用預算去做"},{"start":23031.52,"end":23032.52,"text":"做這個部分"},{"start":23032.52,"end":23034.52,"text":"而不是用國家政府去預算去做這裡"},{"start":23034.52,"end":23035.52,"text":"那我們剛才"},{"start":23035.52,"end":23036.52,"text":"但是保衛部"},{"start":23036.52,"end":23038.52,"text":"我們本黨的利益是在於說"},{"start":23038.52,"end":23039.52,"text":"GDP本身就是已經要"},{"start":23039.52,"end":23041.52,"text":"我們呼應到說"},{"start":23041.52,"end":23042.52,"text":"各國的"},{"start":23042.52,"end":23044.52,"text":"各國對或是美國對我們需求"},{"start":23044.52,"end":23045.52,"text":"美國的要求是說"},{"start":23045.52,"end":23047.52,"text":"我們GDP要逐漸從3%變到5%"},{"start":23050.15,"end":23051.15,"text":"這部分"},{"start":23051.15,"end":23052.15,"text":"有這個必要的話"},{"start":23052.15,"end":23053.15,"text":"當然會有懸石的"},{"start":23053.15,"end":23054.15,"text":"有必要的當然要去到"},{"start":23054.15,"end":23055.15,"text":"但是現在重點是"},{"start":23055.15,"end":23056.15,"text":"3%都還沒有到嘛"},{"start":23056.15,"end":23057.15,"text":"對不對"},{"start":23057.9,"end":23058.9,"text":"那3%這個情況重點是"},{"start":23058.9,"end":23059.9,"text":"而且預算"},{"start":23059.9,"end":23061.9,"text":"不要特別預算常態化"},{"start":23061.9,"end":23062.9,"text":"這是我們最重要的"},{"start":23062.9,"end":23064.9,"text":"立法委員最重要的"},{"start":23064.9,"end":23066.9,"text":"維持我們財政紀律的重點"},{"start":23066.9,"end":23067.9,"text":"因此在這邊看起來"},{"start":23067.9,"end":23068.9,"text":"尤其是我們最近的"},{"start":23068.9,"end":23070.9,"text":"因為AI的發展"},{"start":23070.9,"end":23071.9,"text":"我們的稅收有在增加嘛"},{"start":23071.9,"end":23073.9,"text":"這今年至少要增加一兆"},{"start":23074.52,"end":23075.52,"text":"這種"},{"start":23076.78,"end":23077.78,"text":"現在的財政收支這個情況"},{"start":23077.78,"end":23078.78,"text":"的確是可以"},{"start":23078.78,"end":23079.78,"text":"不像說我們國際間"},{"start":23079.78,"end":23080.78,"text":"對我們需求"},{"start":23080.78,"end":23081.78,"text":"我們絕對是有必要"},{"start":23081.78,"end":23082.78,"text":"會有這個"},{"start":23082.78,"end":23083.78,"text":"會在國防預算"},{"start":23083.78,"end":23084.78,"text":"有這樣大幅的增加的"},{"start":23084.78,"end":23086.78,"text":"那這就是我們本黨"},{"start":23086.78,"end":23087.78,"text":"用這樣的方式"},{"start":23087.78,"end":23088.78,"text":"用所謂的預算"},{"start":23088.78,"end":23090.78,"text":"用不提特別預算"},{"start":23090.78,"end":23092.78,"text":"而是用一般的年度預算的"},{"start":23092.78,"end":23093.78,"text":"最重要的目的"},{"start":23099.81,"end":23100.81,"text":"好"},{"start":23100.81,"end":23102.81,"text":"我想這一"},{"start":23107.19,"end":23109.19,"text":"你講太多了"},{"start":23109.19,"end":23110.19,"text":"法院"},{"start":23110.19,"end":23111.19,"text":"好"},{"start":23111.19,"end":23114.19,"text":"來你說"},{"start":23116.79,"end":23117.79,"text":"來"},{"start":23118.27,"end":23119.27,"text":"這就說明了"},{"start":23120.11,"end":23121.11,"text":"剛剛賴委員"},{"start":23122.49,"end":23123.49,"text":"在講"},{"start":23123.49,"end":23124.49,"text":"我們的條"},{"start":23124.49,"end":23126.49,"text":"輪對照表第十頁"},{"start":23126.49,"end":23128.49,"text":"的確目前審到的是"},{"start":23128.49,"end":23130.49,"text":"行政院版第五條"},{"start":23130.49,"end":23131.49,"text":"對應到的是"},{"start":23131.49,"end":23134.49,"text":"賴氏寶版A版的第六條"},{"start":23134.49,"end":23136.49,"text":"那麼國民黨版呢"},{"start":23136.49,"end":23137.49,"text":"他是放在第十五條"},{"start":23137.49,"end":23138.49,"text":"這第十五條呢"},{"start":23138.49,"end":23139.49,"text":"因為他寫是年度預算"},{"start":23139.49,"end":23141.49,"text":"這就根本不用去討論了"},{"start":23141.49,"end":23143.49,"text":"因為十四個版本"},{"start":23143.49,"end":23145.49,"text":"扣掉沒有編預算的兩個版本"},{"start":23145.49,"end":23146.49,"text":"包括劉淑冰委員講的"},{"start":23146.49,"end":23147.49,"text":"民眾黨團之外"},{"start":23147.49,"end":23149.49,"text":"另外十二個有編制預算的"},{"start":23149.49,"end":23150.49,"text":"有十一個"},{"start":23150.49,"end":23151.49,"text":"第一個"},{"start":23151.49,"end":23152.49,"text":"都是主張用特別預算"},{"start":23152.49,"end":23154.49,"text":"包括賴氏寶委員的A版"},{"start":23154.49,"end":23155.49,"text":"那所以我們就不討論"},{"start":23155.49,"end":23157.49,"text":"不用討論國民黨的年度預算"},{"start":23157.49,"end":23159.49,"text":"那個根本沒有必要"},{"start":23159.49,"end":23160.49,"text":"因為如果要用年度預算"},{"start":23160.49,"end":23162.49,"text":"其實現在國防部"},{"start":23162.49,"end":23163.49,"text":"實際上在執行的"},{"start":23163.49,"end":23165.49,"text":"就是用年度預算執行的"},{"start":23165.49,"end":23167.49,"text":"也是只是講項目"},{"start":23167.49,"end":23169.49,"text":"送來由立法院進行預算審查"},{"start":23169.49,"end":23171.49,"text":"並沒有需要用一個條例"},{"start":23171.49,"end":23172.49,"text":"來交給我們審查"},{"start":23172.49,"end":23173.49,"text":"其次"},{"start":23173.49,"end":23174.49,"text":"就算是特別條例"},{"start":23174.49,"end":23175.49,"text":"給予特別預算"},{"start":23175.49,"end":23176.49,"text":"一定金額"},{"start":23176.49,"end":23178.49,"text":"不管是兩千一百億"},{"start":23178.49,"end":23179.49,"text":"兩千四百億"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2,"end":23359.42,"text":"不意味著全部的技術"},{"start":23359.42,"end":23361.42,"text":"都是由我們自行開發"},{"start":23361.42,"end":23362.42,"text":"這個連美國都做不到"},{"start":23363.22,"end":23364.22,"text":"他要去跟人家買專利"},{"start":23364.22,"end":23365.22,"text":"買授權"},{"start":23365.65,"end":23366.65,"text":"甚至有些零件"},{"start":23366.65,"end":23367.65,"text":"要能夠對方供應"},{"start":23367.65,"end":23369.65,"text":"但是只要是飛虹供應鏈"},{"start":23370.86,"end":23372.86,"text":"我們有辦法獲得"},{"start":23372.86,"end":23374.86,"text":"那就不妨礙我們自主生產"},{"start":23374.86,"end":23375.86,"text":"這樣的目的"},{"start":23375.86,"end":23377.86,"text":"所以這裡寫得這麼嚴"},{"start":23377.86,"end":23378.86,"text":"他講的這三項"},{"start":23378.86,"end":23379.86,"text":"這三款呢"},{"start":23379.86,"end":23380.86,"text":"要在國內這樣"},{"start":23380.86,"end":23383.86,"text":"共同生產組裝跟整合測試"},{"start":23383.86,"end":23385.86,"text":"還有後勤維修能量"},{"start":23385.86,"end":23386.86,"text":"講得很好"},{"start":23387.73,"end":23388.73,"text":"但是實務上呢"},{"start":23388.73,"end":23390.73,"text":"我們看看最後一項"},{"start":23390.73,"end":23391.73,"text":"他的第四項寫"},{"start":23391.73,"end":23393.73,"text":"本條例所需經費"},{"start":23393.73,"end":23395.73,"text":"還要提撥不低於10%"},{"start":23395.73,"end":23397.73,"text":"專攻前三項技術"},{"start":23397.73,"end":23399.73,"text":"移轉接收產業化及"},{"start":23399.73,"end":23401.73,"text":"維修能量建立資用"},{"start":23402.72,"end":23403.72,"text":"我要是跟我老爸"},{"start":23403.72,"end":23404.72,"text":"念大的學生"},{"start":23404.72,"end":23406.72,"text":"跟我老爸要個買電腦4萬塊"},{"start":23406.72,"end":23407.72,"text":"他給我下這麼多條件"},{"start":23407.72,"end":23408.72,"text":"我看電腦就甭買啦"},{"start":23409.84,"end":23410.84,"text":"這個是什麼意思"},{"start":23410.84,"end":23411.84,"text":"也給我們就教一下"},{"start":23411.84,"end":23413.84,"text":"法務部的參事"},{"start":23413.84,"end":23415.84,"text":"他這個應該條文上"},{"start":23415.84,"end":23417.84,"text":"就算未來真的要送審"},{"start":23417.84,"end":23419.84,"text":"沒有所謂的前三項"},{"start":23421.27,"end":23422.27,"text":"這裡面"},{"start":23422.27,"end":23424.27,"text":"只有第一項第二項第三項跟第四項"},{"start":23424.27,"end":23426.27,"text":"第四項可以寫"},{"start":23426.43,"end":23428.43,"text":"第二項之三款"},{"start":23429.15,"end":23431.15,"text":"你要寫就寫第二項之三款"},{"start":23431.15,"end":23432.15,"text":"或寫第二項"},{"start":23432.72,"end":23433.72,"text":"的這些技術移轉"},{"start":23433.72,"end":23434.72,"text":"哪來的前三項"},{"start":23434.72,"end":23435.72,"text":"我就在那邊對半天"},{"start":23435.72,"end":23436.72,"text":"前三項是哪"},{"start":23436.72,"end":23437.72,"text":"前三項"},{"start":23437.72,"end":23438.72,"text":"前面那三項"},{"start":23438.72,"end":23439.72,"text":"通通都是你這個第四項"},{"start":23439.72,"end":23440.72,"text":"要涵蓋的範圍嗎"},{"start":23442.54,"end":23445.54,"text":"所以我還是要建議在野黨"},{"start":23445.54,"end":23446.54,"text":"如果真的有心"},{"start":23447.32,"end":23449.32,"text":"要建立我們國防自主"},{"start":23449.58,"end":23450.58,"text":"防衛台海安全"},{"start":23451.35,"end":23454.35,"text":"你們也希望產業能夠在過程當中獲益"},{"start":23454.35,"end":23457.35,"text":"強化我們自主生產的量能"},{"start":23457.35,"end":23459.35,"text":"也能夠在過程當中刺激"},{"start":23459.35,"end":23460.35,"text":"我們台灣的技術研發"},{"start":23460.35,"end":23462.35,"text":"取得更多的自主研發能力"},{"start":23462.35,"end":23463.35,"text":"這都很好"},{"start":23463.35,"end":23465.35,"text":"但是這樣條文的寫法"},{"start":23465.35,"end":23467.35,"text":"根本就是適得其反"},{"start":23467.35,"end":23468.35,"text":"讓人家覺得"},{"start":23468.35,"end":23470.35,"text":"這哪裡是要來幫忙"},{"start":23470.35,"end":23471.35,"text":"這是來找麻煩"},{"start":23471.35,"end":23472.35,"text":"再強調一次"},{"start":23472.35,"end":23473.35,"text":"這種條文寫法"},{"start":23473.35,"end":23475.35,"text":"哪裡是來幫忙"},{"start":23475.35,"end":23476.35,"text":"這是在找麻煩"},{"start":23483.64,"end":23484.64,"text":"好"},{"start":23485.64,"end":23486.64,"text":"我公平了"},{"start":23487.6,"end":23488.6,"text":"這個早上這樣"},{"start":23488.6,"end":23489.6,"text":"把黑人說成這樣"},{"start":23489.6,"end":23490.6,"text":"受寵若驚"},{"start":23490.6,"end":23492.6,"text":"某人會被人家接受"},{"start":23492.6,"end":23494.6,"text":"說沒有那是把版本"},{"start":23494.6,"end":23495.6,"text":"那是把版本"},{"start":23495.6,"end":23497.6,"text":"這樣會把他"},{"start":23497.6,"end":23500.6,"text":"左屁右打"},{"start":23500.6,"end":23501.6,"text":"這個叫做"},{"start":23501.6,"end":23503.6,"text":"到底叫做"},{"start":23503.6,"end":23504.6,"text":"民捧暗殺"},{"start":23504.6,"end":23506.6,"text":"實際上就是殺"},{"start":23506.6,"end":23507.6,"text":"這個東西"},{"start":23507.6,"end":23508.6,"text":"也不要把本質想"},{"start":23508.6,"end":23510.6,"text":"自己都給打"},{"start":23510.6,"end":23511.6,"text":"把版本推出來"},{"start":23511.6,"end":23512.6,"text":"就是進得去考驗"},{"start":23512.6,"end":23513.6,"text":"就是進得去考驗"},{"start":23515.33,"end":23516.33,"text":"我們一直主張"},{"start":23516.33,"end":23518.33,"text":"國務部要多少錢"},{"start":23518.33,"end":23519.33,"text":"你竟然還理了這生肖"},{"start":23519.33,"end":23520.33,"text":"我說你應該買"},{"start":23521.6,"end":23522.6,"text":"就是一般預算"},{"start":23523.21,"end":23524.21,"text":"那我提了500億"},{"start":23524.21,"end":23525.21,"text":"就是針對"},{"start":23525.21,"end":23526.21,"text":"我要upgrade"},{"start":23526.21,"end":23528.21,"text":"我要技術能夠升更的"},{"start":23528.21,"end":23529.21,"text":"offset"},{"start":23529.21,"end":23530.21,"text":"以及有這個"},{"start":23530.21,"end":23531.21,"text":"有這個鋪的"},{"start":23531.9,"end":23532.9,"text":"但是offset"},{"start":23532.9,"end":23533.9,"text":"等一下何車長"},{"start":23533.9,"end":23534.9,"text":"如果講不對你可以補充"},{"start":23535.63,"end":23536.63,"text":"中路不怎麼樣啊"},{"start":23536.63,"end":23537.63,"text":"滴滴答答"},{"start":23537.63,"end":23539.63,"text":"我們跟美國買了多了武器"},{"start":23539.63,"end":23541.63,"text":"請問offset是怎麼樣"},{"start":23543.15,"end":23544.15,"text":"這都一大無主啊"},{"start":23545.4,"end":23547.4,"text":"根本都不敢跟你跟美國要啊"},{"start":23548.08,"end":23550.08,"text":"第一個40%offset就是"},{"start":23550.08,"end":23551.08,"text":"我跟你買100塊"},{"start":23551.08,"end":23553.08,"text":"你要給我40塊的並單"},{"start":23555.76,"end":23557.76,"text":"買700億美金"},{"start":23557.76,"end":23558.76,"text":"向美國買700億美金"},{"start":23559.66,"end":23560.66,"text":"他有沒有給我們40%的並單"},{"start":23560.66,"end":23561.66,"text":"有沒有"},{"start":23562.88,"end":23563.88,"text":"當然沒有啊"},{"start":23563.88,"end":23564.88,"text":"怎麼會有呢"},{"start":23567.35,"end":23569.35,"text":"我怎麼查就沒有啊"},{"start":23569.35,"end":23571.35,"text":"這個東西就是我們要落實"},{"start":23571.35,"end":23572.35,"text":"技術的升級"},{"start":23572.35,"end":23573.35,"text":"我們跟美國"},{"start":23573.35,"end":23575.35,"text":"一直買一直買一直買"},{"start":23575.35,"end":23576.35,"text":"難道你說"},{"start":23576.35,"end":23577.35,"text":"我當然我贊助我贊助"},{"start":23577.35,"end":23578.35,"text":"我不服認"},{"start":23578.35,"end":23579.35,"text":"台灣的晶片非常棒"},{"start":23579.35,"end":23581.35,"text":"台灣的資訊工業非常棒"},{"start":23582.29,"end":23583.29,"text":"台灣的晶片非常棒"},{"start":23583.77,"end":23584.77,"text":"我們是工業王國"},{"start":23585.71,"end":23586.71,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":23586.71,"end":23588.71,"text":"在軍工行業這一塊"},{"start":23590.76,"end":23592.76,"text":"我們就買而已啊"},{"start":23592.76,"end":23593.76,"text":"技術沒有生根啊"},{"start":23594.47,"end":23596.47,"text":"美國跟我們反過來買嗎"},{"start":23596.47,"end":23598.47,"text":"我們跟他買100億美金"},{"start":23598.47,"end":23600.47,"text":"他要跟我們買40億美金的"},{"start":23600.47,"end":23603.47,"text":"其他的一些相關的零主件嗎"},{"start":23603.47,"end":23604.47,"text":"答案是沒有的嘛"},{"start":23604.47,"end":23605.47,"text":"就是做的不好嘛"},{"start":23605.47,"end":23607.47,"text":"所以我的500億"},{"start":23607.47,"end":23609.47,"text":"就是針對我買了之後"},{"start":23611.35,"end":23613.35,"text":"不管是美國或是其他國家"},{"start":23613.35,"end":23615.35,"text":"你要跟我買相對應的"},{"start":23615.35,"end":23618.35,"text":"買40%以上的交易"},{"start":23618.35,"end":23620.35,"text":"這個不是什麼挖坑啦"},{"start":23620.35,"end":23621.35,"text":"這個已經有這樣做了"},{"start":23621.35,"end":23623.35,"text":"過去就這樣規定"},{"start":23623.35,"end":23625.35,"text":"只是一直沒有落實"},{"start":23625.77,"end":23627.77,"text":"黃志祺這個拜託當立法委員"},{"start":23627.77,"end":23629.77,"text":"這個這個中委員你都是"},{"start":23629.77,"end":23630.77,"text":"老鳥不是菜鳥"},{"start":23630.77,"end":23631.77,"text":"要知道"},{"start":23631.77,"end":23634.77,"text":"那邊各部經濟部就有訂了"},{"start":23634.77,"end":23636.77,"text":"只是沒有做"},{"start":23637.38,"end":23638.38,"text":"那不是我們失職嗎"},{"start":23638.38,"end":23640.38,"text":"我們沒有好好去監督啊"},{"start":23640.38,"end":23641.38,"text":"我們對外的武器採購"},{"start":23641.38,"end":23642.38,"text":"就應該跟他要求"},{"start":23642.38,"end":23644.38,"text":"40%你要跟我買回去"},{"start":23645.58,"end":23647.58,"text":"這個才是長久之道"},{"start":23647.58,"end":23650.58,"text":"才有辦法落實我們的金工產業嘛"},{"start":23650.58,"end":23651.58,"text":"阿婆就跟他講"},{"start":23651.58,"end":23653.58,"text":"我們也希望這一次"},{"start":23653.97,"end":23654.97,"text":"我們沒有失職"},{"start":23654.97,"end":23655.97,"text":"我們國防"},{"start":23656.6,"end":23657.6,"text":"這個"},{"start":23657.6,"end":23659.6,"text":"國務部提出了那三大項"},{"start":23660.1,"end":23663.1,"text":"無人機兩種無人機一種無人體"},{"start":23663.76,"end":23666.76,"text":"這個錢能夠帶動台灣的金工產業"},{"start":23666.76,"end":23669.76,"text":"能夠圖一門徑能夠上來"},{"start":23669.97,"end":23671.97,"text":"否則的話我們就去"},{"start":23671.97,"end":23673.97,"text":"都跟台灣的金工產業"},{"start":23673.97,"end":23675.97,"text":"真的去做整齊的"},{"start":23676.31,"end":23678.31,"text":"沒有幾個啦"},{"start":23678.31,"end":23680.31,"text":"所以我們第五條"},{"start":23680.31,"end":23682.31,"text":"其實第五條比較講到這裡"},{"start":23682.31,"end":23684.31,"text":"都不用講太多"},{"start":23684.31,"end":23685.31,"text":"就是要特別預算"},{"start":23685.31,"end":23686.31,"text":"或是不要"},{"start":23686.31,"end":23688.31,"text":"你拿蔡英棠堅持不要"},{"start":23688.31,"end":23690.31,"text":"但是錢一定給你"},{"start":23690.31,"end":23692.31,"text":"你們編"},{"start":23692.31,"end":23694.31,"text":"你們編我們就給"},{"start":23694.31,"end":23697.31,"text":"特別預算就破壞資訊嘛"},{"start":23697.31,"end":23699.31,"text":"這個你們把違章建築"},{"start":23699.31,"end":23700.31,"text":"當作一般建築"},{"start":23701.32,"end":23704.32,"text":"不要特別預算常態化"},{"start":23704.32,"end":23706.32,"text":"這是我們強調的"},{"start":23706.32,"end":23707.32,"text":"哪一次特別預算"},{"start":23708.56,"end":23710.56,"text":"沒有國防部的因子幾乎都有"},{"start":23710.56,"end":23712.56,"text":"權責的任性就哪一天一樣"},{"start":23713.83,"end":23714.83,"text":"什麼什麼什麼"},{"start":23714.83,"end":23715.83,"text":"特別預算"},{"start":23715.83,"end":23716.83,"text":"國防部就吃一塊"},{"start":23716.83,"end":23717.83,"text":"國防部就吃一塊"},{"start":23718.84,"end":23720.84,"text":"現在你還特別要再吃這麼大塊"},{"start":23720.84,"end":23723.84,"text":"我們就覺得放在年度預算"},{"start":23723.84,"end":23725.84,"text":"監督力道也比較足啦"},{"start":23725.84,"end":23727.84,"text":"這個特別預算就是說"},{"start":23727.84,"end":23729.84,"text":"這個特別預算就太特別了"},{"start":23733.67,"end":23734.67,"text":"來 聯署委員"},{"start":23735.46,"end":23736.46,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":23736.46,"end":23737.46,"text":"其實我們都知道"},{"start":23737.46,"end":23738.46,"text":"其實道第五條"},{"start":23738.46,"end":23740.46,"text":"就是一個深水區啦"},{"start":23740.46,"end":23742.46,"text":"因為剛剛大家不論是"},{"start":23742.46,"end":23743.46,"text":"國民黨的委員"},{"start":23743.46,"end":23744.46,"text":"或是民眾黨的委員"},{"start":23744.46,"end":23745.46,"text":"還包括我們民黨委員"},{"start":23745.46,"end":23747.46,"text":"都已經有發言了"},{"start":23747.46,"end":23748.46,"text":"那麼這個深水區"},{"start":23748.46,"end":23749.46,"text":"其實就決定了"},{"start":23749.46,"end":23750.46,"text":"接下來"},{"start":23750.46,"end":23754.46,"text":"到底我們要不要來採購"},{"start":23754.46,"end":23756.46,"text":"那要用什麼樣的方式採購"},{"start":23756.46,"end":23757.46,"text":"以及採購之後"},{"start":23757.46,"end":23759.46,"text":"什麼時候可以拿得到"},{"start":23759.46,"end":23761.46,"text":"比如說如果真的就"},{"start":23761.46,"end":23764.46,"text":"如同國民黨跟民眾黨認為的"},{"start":23764.46,"end":23768.46,"text":"現在就是要進入年度預算"},{"start":23768.46,"end":23770.46,"text":"那麼進入年度預算的時候"},{"start":23770.46,"end":23771.46,"text":"你跟人家買東西"},{"start":23771.46,"end":23774.46,"text":"那麼人家為什麼要先給你400億之後"},{"start":23774.46,"end":23777.46,"text":"全部的東西就給你來使用"},{"start":23777.46,"end":23781.46,"text":"我相信這個也是大家在面對"},{"start":23781.46,"end":23783.46,"text":"我們現在討論這一題的時候"},{"start":23783.46,"end":23785.46,"text":"其實最明確知道的嘛"},{"start":23785.46,"end":23788.46,"text":"因為如果說回到年度預算"},{"start":23788.46,"end":23790.46,"text":"那麼還是要回到老生常談"},{"start":23790.46,"end":23793.46,"text":"就是我們現在2026年的年度預算"},{"start":23793.46,"end":23794.46,"text":"還卡住"},{"start":23794.46,"end":23796.46,"text":"那麼我相信在公聽會"},{"start":23796.46,"end":23798.46,"text":"7月23號公聽會的時候"},{"start":23798.46,"end":23801.46,"text":"廠商業者都講得非常的清楚跟明白"},{"start":23801.46,"end":23804.46,"text":"就是如果沒有一個穩定的預算"},{"start":23804.46,"end":23807.46,"text":"那麼他們根本不敢下去做長單"},{"start":23807.46,"end":23809.46,"text":"所以為什麼我的版本"},{"start":23809.46,"end":23812.46,"text":"跟行政院的版本會希望有一個"},{"start":23813.95,"end":23816.95,"text":"2100億為上限的特別預算"},{"start":23816.95,"end":23819.95,"text":"那就是第一在採購的部分"},{"start":23819.95,"end":23821.95,"text":"確定了就是有2100億"},{"start":23821.95,"end":23824.95,"text":"那麼2100億到時候"},{"start":23824.95,"end":23828.95,"text":"他有機會應該是說一定可以跟"},{"start":23828.95,"end":23830.95,"text":"美國買到這些武器"},{"start":23830.95,"end":23833.95,"text":"那麼買到之後包含剛剛政天才委員"},{"start":23833.95,"end":23836.95,"text":"特別提到的我們怎麼樣的國防自主"},{"start":23836.95,"end":23839.95,"text":"那麼當然接下來剛剛這個"},{"start":23839.95,"end":23841.95,"text":"國民黨的委員也有提到的希望能夠"},{"start":23841.95,"end":23843.95,"text":"技術轉移或等等"},{"start":23843.95,"end":23845.95,"text":"這個都是後續採購"},{"start":23845.95,"end":23846.95,"text":"我相信國防部這裡"},{"start":23848.03,"end":23849.03,"text":"會去做"},{"start":23849.7,"end":23851.7,"text":"進一步的協商跟溝通"},{"start":23851.7,"end":23853.7,"text":"包括我們在採購的過程當中"},{"start":23854.68,"end":23857.68,"text":"有多少的部分可以記轉給我們的"},{"start":23857.68,"end":23861.68,"text":"無人產業的業者來未來做生產"},{"start":23861.68,"end":23864.68,"text":"但是如果說你今天沒有一個穩定"},{"start":23866.09,"end":23869.09,"text":"的長單我覺得是坑殺業者"},{"start":23869.09,"end":23872.09,"text":"業者也講了就是你一下有一下沒有"},{"start":23872.09,"end":23875.09,"text":"然後以目前立法院的情況"},{"start":23875.09,"end":23876.09,"text":"大家也不要騙人了"},{"start":23876.09,"end":23879.09,"text":"這個預算能夠順利的編列下來嗎"},{"start":23879.94,"end":23882.94,"text":"那麼業者敢去投資敢去生產嗎"},{"start":23882.94,"end":23884.94,"text":"甚至於我說實話連銀行可能都不"},{"start":23884.94,"end":23886.94,"text":"就算業者想先去生產"},{"start":23886.94,"end":23889.94,"text":"銀行可能都不敢給你貸款"},{"start":23889.94,"end":23891.94,"text":"沒有訂單哪來貸款"},{"start":23891.94,"end":23894.94,"text":"這個到時候在銀行審核的過程當中"},{"start":23894.94,"end":23896.94,"text":"都會覺得你沒單"},{"start":23897.38,"end":23898.38,"text":"我還給你貸"},{"start":23898.38,"end":23900.38,"text":"不要銀行到時候還出現"},{"start":23900.38,"end":23902.38,"text":"超貸偽貸假貸"},{"start":23902.38,"end":23905.38,"text":"所以講白了是回到這個整個社會上的"},{"start":23905.38,"end":23907.38,"text":"邏輯就是用一個特別預算"},{"start":23907.38,"end":23910.38,"text":"他才能夠穩定的有訂單"},{"start":23910.38,"end":23911.38,"text":"然後我們也才能夠買得到"},{"start":23911.38,"end":23914.38,"text":"所以這也是為什麼我相信今天我們在"},{"start":23914.38,"end":23916.38,"text":"這裡討論第五條的深水區"},{"start":23916.38,"end":23919.38,"text":"我覺得用特別預算的方式才是最可行的"},{"start":23921.71,"end":23924.71,"text":"還有新的討論"},{"start":23924.71,"end":23926.71,"text":"我要請教"},{"start":23926.71,"end":23930.71,"text":"剛剛顧部長提到的那幾個問題"},{"start":23930.71,"end":23932.71,"text":"是不是國民黨的委員能夠回答"},{"start":23932.71,"end":23935.71,"text":"就你的公務預算每年編列400億"},{"start":23936.76,"end":23938.76,"text":"那如果編列不足的話"},{"start":23938.76,"end":23940.76,"text":"算不算違法"},{"start":23940.76,"end":23941.76,"text":"如果編列超過的話"},{"start":23941.76,"end":23942.76,"text":"算不算違法"},{"start":23942.76,"end":23945.76,"text":"他的長單訂購"},{"start":23945.76,"end":23948.76,"text":"他不一定今年需要可以付到400億"},{"start":23948.76,"end":23951.76,"text":"或者是下一個年度需要多過400億的時候"},{"start":23951.76,"end":23953.76,"text":"預算要怎麼編列"},{"start":23954.33,"end":23957.33,"text":"我們是不是可以請教偉大的國民黨的黨團"},{"start":23957.33,"end":23959.33,"text":"因為這法條是你們寫的"},{"start":23959.33,"end":23960.33,"text":"這版本是你們寫的"},{"start":23960.33,"end":23962.33,"text":"可不可以說明一下"},{"start":23962.83,"end":23964.83,"text":"預算編列不足算不算違法"},{"start":23964.83,"end":23966.83,"text":"預算編列超過算不算違法"},{"start":23966.83,"end":23968.83,"text":"如果長單訂購的時候"},{"start":23968.83,"end":23970.83,"text":"法律明定多少就是多少"},{"start":23970.83,"end":23972.83,"text":"為什麼我剛才"},{"start":23972.83,"end":23974.83,"text":"所以我一年只有400億可以花"},{"start":23974.83,"end":23976.83,"text":"那我今年不需要用到400億的時候"},{"start":23976.83,"end":23978.83,"text":"我用編400億"},{"start":23978.83,"end":23980.83,"text":"那編了要幹嘛"},{"start":23980.83,"end":23982.83,"text":"因為法律明定400億"},{"start":23982.76,"end":23984.76,"text":"法律明定400億"},{"start":23986.16,"end":23988.16,"text":"那你應該問國防部"},{"start":23988.16,"end":23990.16,"text":"國防部沒有要這樣編"},{"start":23990.16,"end":23992.16,"text":"是你們寫的"},{"start":23992.16,"end":23994.16,"text":"法條是你們寫的"},{"start":23996.04,"end":23998.04,"text":"2100億"},{"start":23998.04,"end":24000.04,"text":"它有長單短單"},{"start":24000.04,"end":24002.04,"text":"它不是一年執行完"},{"start":24002.04,"end":24004.04,"text":"這是特別採購特別條例"},{"start":24004.04,"end":24006.04,"text":"不是一年執行2100億"},{"start":24006.04,"end":24008.04,"text":"我現在問的是說"},{"start":24008.04,"end":24010.04,"text":"你把他明文化"},{"start":24010.04,"end":24012.04,"text":"你等我問完你再講"},{"start":24012.04,"end":24014.04,"text":"你把他明文化"},{"start":24014.04,"end":24016.04,"text":"一年規定就是編列400億"},{"start":24017.95,"end":24019.95,"text":"那如果不足的時候怎麼辦"},{"start":24020.7,"end":24022.7,"text":"超過的時候算不算違法"},{"start":24024.12,"end":24026.12,"text":"超過算不算違法"},{"start":24026.64,"end":24028.64,"text":"好 第一個"},{"start":24028.64,"end":24030.64,"text":"有禮貌一點"},{"start":24030.64,"end":24032.64,"text":"剛才我已經講了"},{"start":24031.5,"end":24033.5,"text":"剛才我已經講了"},{"start":24034.67,"end":24036.67,"text":"法律明定一年400億"},{"start":24038.84,"end":24040.84,"text":"老婆"},{"start":24040.24,"end":24042.24,"text":"法律明定400億"},{"start":24043.45,"end":24045.45,"text":"國防部如果認為"},{"start":24045.45,"end":24047.45,"text":"我用不到400億一年"},{"start":24048.48,"end":24050.48,"text":"當然在其他的產業"},{"start":24051.45,"end":24053.45,"text":"因為這是"},{"start":24052.73,"end":24054.73,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":24054.73,"end":24056.73,"text":"無人宰計"},{"start":24056.31,"end":24058.31,"text":"然後我們"},{"start":24057.84,"end":24059.84,"text":"要讓產業"},{"start":24059.63,"end":24061.63,"text":"能夠發展"},{"start":24061.23,"end":24063.23,"text":"我們自己的無人宰計"},{"start":24064.91,"end":24066.91,"text":"國防部用不到那麼多"},{"start":24066.91,"end":24068.91,"text":"我們可以給我們的產業借"},{"start":24069.75,"end":24071.75,"text":"所以一年就是編400億"},{"start":24073.7,"end":24075.7,"text":"如果認為這400億不夠"},{"start":24080.18,"end":24082.18,"text":"那就要先讓國防部"},{"start":24082.18,"end":24084.18,"text":"先把大了第一劑"},{"start":24085.35,"end":24087.35,"text":"你先聽清楚"},{"start":24087.35,"end":24089.35,"text":"國防自主產業"},{"start":24089.35,"end":24091.35,"text":"你要先看"},{"start":24091.02,"end":24093.02,"text":"你要先看這個法律名稱"},{"start":24093.02,"end":24095.02,"text":"行政法律名稱叫"},{"start":24095.02,"end":24097.02,"text":"國防自主產業"},{"start":24097.38,"end":24099.38,"text":"國防部他可以自己"},{"start":24099.38,"end":24101.38,"text":"可以生產嗎"},{"start":24101.38,"end":24103.38,"text":"他當然就要靠產業啊"},{"start":24103.98,"end":24105.98,"text":"國防自主啊"},{"start":24105.98,"end":24107.98,"text":"什麼叫國防自主"},{"start":24107.98,"end":24109.98,"text":"不是去買美國"},{"start":24109.98,"end":24111.98,"text":"叫國防自主啊"},{"start":24111.98,"end":24113.98,"text":"那個直接寫就"},{"start":24113.98,"end":24115.98,"text":"那就直接寫國防"},{"start":24115.98,"end":24117.98,"text":"國防採購"},{"start":24117.98,"end":24119.98,"text":"無人採購"},{"start":24119.98,"end":24121.98,"text":"採購特別條例"},{"start":24121.98,"end":24123.98,"text":"國防無人採購"},{"start":24123.98,"end":24125.98,"text":"採購特別條例就好了"},{"start":24125.98,"end":24127.98,"text":"為什麼還要加個自主"},{"start":24127.98,"end":24129.98,"text":"為什麼要加個自主"},{"start":24129.98,"end":24131.98,"text":"自主就是要自己"},{"start":24131.98,"end":24133.98,"text":"產生生產為主啊"},{"start":24135.23,"end":24137.23,"text":"所以這個部分啊"},{"start":24137.41,"end":24139.41,"text":"國防採購不能隨便到產業裡面"},{"start":24139.41,"end":24141.41,"text":"去那個錢不能亂挪啊"},{"start":24141.41,"end":24143.41,"text":"中文你要看得懂"},{"start":24143.41,"end":24145.41,"text":"法律你要看得懂啊"},{"start":24145.41,"end":24147.41,"text":"你要看清楚行政院現在就有這個計畫了"},{"start":24149.32,"end":24151.32,"text":"這裡面就包含了國防自主"},{"start":24152.95,"end":24156.95,"text":"非常重要的在行政院的所訂的產業"},{"start":24156.95,"end":24158.95,"text":"這個無人採購的計畫裡面"},{"start":24158.95,"end":24160.95,"text":"就是寫得很清楚"},{"start":24160.95,"end":24162.95,"text":"國防自主"},{"start":24163.98,"end":24165.98,"text":"那現在呢"},{"start":24165.98,"end":24167.98,"text":"我們要把它列為提升為法律的位階"},{"start":24167.98,"end":24169.98,"text":"因為才會"},{"start":24171.54,"end":24173.54,"text":"不會因著不同的院長"},{"start":24174.55,"end":24176.55,"text":"不同的經濟部長"},{"start":24176.55,"end":24178.55,"text":"不同的國防部長"},{"start":24178.55,"end":24180.55,"text":"而產生預算的偏差"},{"start":24180.55,"end":24182.55,"text":"所以要特別以"},{"start":24183.22,"end":24185.22,"text":"法律"},{"start":24184.67,"end":24186.67,"text":"來民變"},{"start":24186.19,"end":24188.19,"text":"這樣的話才會"},{"start":24188.1,"end":24190.1,"text":"不會因為院長的變更"},{"start":24190.1,"end":24192.1,"text":"國防部長的變更"},{"start":24193.08,"end":24195.08,"text":"啊"},{"start":24194.11,"end":24196.11,"text":"經濟部長的調整"},{"start":24196.6,"end":24198.6,"text":"我們現在就是用法律的位階"},{"start":24198.6,"end":24200.6,"text":"把它民變"},{"start":24200.55,"end":24202.55,"text":"這個才能夠確保"},{"start":24202.46,"end":24204.46,"text":"所謂的國防自主"},{"start":24205.67,"end":24207.67,"text":"無人宰計的這樣一個法律"},{"start":24207.67,"end":24209.67,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24221.63,"end":24223.63,"text":"我們就是年度預算我不編而已"},{"start":24223.63,"end":24225.63,"text":"就按照你的需求"},{"start":24225.63,"end":24227.63,"text":"我支持年度的那種我不編"},{"start":24227.63,"end":24229.63,"text":"最重要的民主黨的那種不編"},{"start":24229.63,"end":24231.63,"text":"我年度預算幹嘛要編"},{"start":24231.63,"end":24233.63,"text":"對啊對啊"},{"start":24233.63,"end":24235.63,"text":"我就年度預算就按照你的需求"},{"start":24235.63,"end":24237.63,"text":"你要買你要追加就提出啊"},{"start":24240.36,"end":24242.36,"text":"討論這麼多就這差別"},{"start":24243.09,"end":24245.09,"text":"這個主席我覺得我們"},{"start":24245.09,"end":24247.09,"text":"在委員會大家是朝野"},{"start":24247.92,"end":24249.92,"text":"所以應該是這樣子的對應才對"},{"start":24249.92,"end":24251.92,"text":"那第二個就是說"},{"start":24251.92,"end":24253.92,"text":"沒有人會去反對"},{"start":24253.92,"end":24255.92,"text":"國防的這個"},{"start":24255.92,"end":24257.92,"text":"自主加強預算"},{"start":24257.92,"end":24259.92,"text":"沒有人會反對"},{"start":24259.92,"end":24261.92,"text":"所以我們提出"},{"start":24261.92,"end":24263.92,"text":"2400億"},{"start":24263.92,"end":24265.92,"text":"有人反對嗎"},{"start":24267.83,"end":24269.83,"text":"對不對"},{"start":24269.83,"end":24271.83,"text":"有人反對嗎"},{"start":24271.83,"end":24273.83,"text":"你如果懂得這樣子就我們趕快去審"},{"start":24273.83,"end":24275.83,"text":"沒有那個說"},{"start":24275.83,"end":24277.83,"text":"如果你一年不需要400億的"},{"start":24277.83,"end":24279.83,"text":"國防部長聽到他暈倒了"},{"start":24280.3,"end":24282.3,"text":"對不對"},{"start":24282.3,"end":24284.3,"text":"所以真一點就在於剛剛主席所說的"},{"start":24284.3,"end":24286.3,"text":"所以我敬請主席來做裁示"},{"start":24290.04,"end":24292.04,"text":"好我們"},{"start":24295.53,"end":24297.53,"text":"好"},{"start":24298.28,"end":24300.28,"text":"好"},{"start":24308.22,"end":24310.22,"text":"好接下來我們進行第六條"},{"start":24310.22,"end":24312.22,"text":"請經濟部"},{"start":24321.53,"end":24323.53,"text":"報告聯席委員會議"},{"start":24323.53,"end":24325.53,"text":"行政院版本"},{"start":24325.53,"end":24327.53,"text":"等有十個版本都規定"},{"start":24327.53,"end":24329.53,"text":"這個本條"},{"start":24329.53,"end":24331.53,"text":"本條例所列預算的執行應依法"},{"start":24331.53,"end":24333.53,"text":"辦理審計其中賴氏堡"},{"start":24333.53,"end":24335.53,"text":"等委員的版本A"},{"start":24335.53,"end":24337.53,"text":"另外要求駐管機關每六個月"},{"start":24337.53,"end":24339.53,"text":"向立法院提出專案報告"},{"start":24339.74,"end":24341.74,"text":"黃定宇等委員的版本"},{"start":24341.74,"end":24343.74,"text":"則徵訂非經立法院同意"},{"start":24343.74,"end":24345.74,"text":"不得留用及定期提出"},{"start":24345.74,"end":24347.74,"text":"執行報告"},{"start":24348.06,"end":24350.06,"text":"期滿總報告等監督機制"},{"start":24351.65,"end":24353.65,"text":"行政部門這邊的建立"},{"start":24353.65,"end":24355.65,"text":"是本條例所列的預算的執行"},{"start":24363.45,"end":24367.45,"text":"決算的審核問證的質詢以及專案報告"},{"start":24367.45,"end":24369.45,"text":"等現行的機制"},{"start":24369.45,"end":24371.45,"text":"要求行政機關提供執行情形"},{"start":24371.45,"end":24373.45,"text":"建立無需另立"},{"start":24373.96,"end":24375.96,"text":"立法規範"},{"start":24377.4,"end":24381.4,"text":"令有關非經立法院同意不得留用的規定"},{"start":24381.4,"end":24383.4,"text":"這個部分我們再看"},{"start":24383.4,"end":24385.4,"text":"這個國安部這邊看是不是同意"},{"start":24385.4,"end":24387.4,"text":"來做規範"},{"start":24387.4,"end":24389.4,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":24389.42,"end":24391.42,"text":"好"},{"start":24390.89,"end":24392.89,"text":"好"},{"start":24395.97,"end":24397.97,"text":"好"},{"start":24399.37,"end":24401.37,"text":"至少有一個條文第六條"},{"start":24401.37,"end":24403.37,"text":"第六條就"},{"start":24403.37,"end":24405.37,"text":"前面吧"},{"start":24405.89,"end":24407.89,"text":"你不堅持"},{"start":24407.89,"end":24409.89,"text":"不是 我的"},{"start":24409.89,"end":24411.89,"text":"來來來 我是呼籲我前面的"},{"start":24411.89,"end":24413.89,"text":"強調技術輿轉"},{"start":24413.89,"end":24415.89,"text":"六個報告技術輿轉"},{"start":24415.89,"end":24417.89,"text":"以及採購進度以及工業合作"},{"start":24417.89,"end":24419.89,"text":"就Obset這個相關金塊"},{"start":24419.89,"end":24421.89,"text":"這個我不堅持"},{"start":24421.89,"end":24423.89,"text":"大家同意第六條"},{"start":24423.89,"end":24425.89,"text":"第二條願保沒有意見"},{"start":24425.89,"end":24427.89,"text":"審計意見就好啦"},{"start":24427.89,"end":24429.89,"text":"民眾黨團又沒有版本"},{"start":24429.89,"end":24431.89,"text":"你們根本沒有講到預算 你們哪有保留"},{"start":24431.89,"end":24433.89,"text":"你們的版本根本沒有預算"},{"start":24435.47,"end":24437.47,"text":"第六條就是講那個"},{"start":24437.47,"end":24439.47,"text":"預算是執行啊"},{"start":24439.47,"end":24441.47,"text":"你們的條例根本沒有預算要執行"},{"start":24443.65,"end":24445.65,"text":"不是這樣子啦"},{"start":24446.74,"end":24448.74,"text":"等一下"},{"start":24451.7,"end":24453.7,"text":"等一下"},{"start":24453.31,"end":24455.31,"text":"那個第六條是因為"},{"start":24455.31,"end":24457.31,"text":"有特別預算才有這一條啦"},{"start":24457.31,"end":24459.31,"text":"第一條就保留啦"},{"start":24459.31,"end":24461.31,"text":"國眾兩黨沒有"},{"start":24461.31,"end":24463.31,"text":"特別預算所以沒有這一條啦"},{"start":24463.31,"end":24465.31,"text":"所以這一條要保留啦"},{"start":24467.35,"end":24469.35,"text":"沒有這一條所以要保留"},{"start":24469.35,"end":24471.35,"text":"國眾兩黨沒有的我們都不要審"},{"start":24471.35,"end":24473.35,"text":"直接保留啊"},{"start":24473.35,"end":24475.35,"text":"這已經不一樣了不一定啦"},{"start":24475.35,"end":24477.35,"text":"因為我沒有特別預算所以我當然不會寫這個"},{"start":24478.79,"end":24480.79,"text":"我是連都預算所以我當然不會寫這個啊"},{"start":24480.79,"end":24482.79,"text":"好啦主席還是要講一下"},{"start":24482.79,"end":24484.79,"text":"因為我看到你們後面的第五條啦"},{"start":24485.3,"end":24487.3,"text":"來主席我講一下"},{"start":24487.3,"end":24489.3,"text":"你們的第五條你們還定義叫做"},{"start":24489.3,"end":24491.3,"text":"發展綱領啦"},{"start":24491.3,"end":24493.3,"text":"那麼其實呢其他以特別預算"},{"start":24493.3,"end":24495.3,"text":"提出的都是採納"},{"start":24495.3,"end":24497.3,"text":"行政員版本本條例所列預算"},{"start":24497.3,"end":24499.3,"text":"是執行審計機關因依法"},{"start":24499.3,"end":24501.3,"text":"辦理審計這是再明白"},{"start":24501.3,"end":24503.3,"text":"不過的道理那至於說"},{"start":24503.3,"end":24505.3,"text":"賴氏寶委員的A板因為他一直心繫"},{"start":24505.3,"end":24507.3,"text":"說什麼技術移轉等等"},{"start":24507.3,"end":24509.3,"text":"看起來很好意事實上很詭計"},{"start":24509.3,"end":24511.3,"text":"他就堅持要加第二項那我們也"},{"start":24511.3,"end":24513.3,"text":"有尊重啦但是"},{"start":24513.3,"end":24515.3,"text":"那個第四民眾黨團的第五條呢"},{"start":24515.3,"end":24517.3,"text":"他這裡寫"},{"start":24517.62,"end":24519.62,"text":"經濟部應每四年提出"},{"start":24519.62,"end":24521.62,"text":"無人機產業發展綱領"},{"start":24521.62,"end":24523.62,"text":"每兩年檢討修正"},{"start":24523.62,"end":24525.62,"text":"涉及國防運用事項"},{"start":24525.62,"end":24527.62,"text":"應會同國防部進行"},{"start":24527.62,"end":24529.62,"text":"那為什麼我再提說"},{"start":24529.62,"end":24531.62,"text":"今天主席一直沒有分流"},{"start":24531.62,"end":24533.62,"text":"就會造成我們這個困擾"},{"start":24533.62,"end":24535.62,"text":"其實這個條文如果嚴格來講"},{"start":24537.39,"end":24541.39,"text":"看起來似乎國家要提出一個這個無人機產業發展綱領"},{"start":24542.66,"end":24544.66,"text":"或者無人機你們是不是無人機"},{"start":24544.66,"end":24546.66,"text":"我是認為是無人載具產業發展綱領"},{"start":24547.98,"end":24549.98,"text":"訂出一個無人載具產業的發展綱領"},{"start":24549.98,"end":24551.98,"text":"不是壞事啊"},{"start":24552.01,"end":24554.01,"text":"但是由於砸了你們這個"},{"start":24554.01,"end":24556.01,"text":"你們的版本就是有點"},{"start":24556.01,"end":24558.01,"text":"突然天外廢了一筆"},{"start":24558.01,"end":24560.01,"text":"叫我們看了說有一個發展綱領不錯"},{"start":24560.01,"end":24562.01,"text":"但是沒地方擺啊"},{"start":24562.01,"end":24564.01,"text":"我們今天討論到目前大家有討論爭議的"},{"start":24564.01,"end":24566.01,"text":"都跟這個沒有關係啊"},{"start":24566.01,"end":24568.01,"text":"所以這一條好像是天外廢了一筆"},{"start":24568.01,"end":24570.01,"text":"讓我們不知道如何面對示好"},{"start":24570.01,"end":24572.01,"text":"而且這裡面還說喔"},{"start":24572.01,"end":24574.01,"text":"最後一項寫第一項所稱無人載具"},{"start":24574.01,"end":24576.01,"text":"無人機產業發展綱領"},{"start":24576.01,"end":24578.01,"text":"應依國家無人機產業"},{"start":24578.01,"end":24580.01,"text":"發展戰略特別委員"},{"start":24580.01,"end":24582.01,"text":"我知道你們設一個戰略特別委員會"},{"start":24582.01,"end":24584.01,"text":"我看過喔"},{"start":24584.01,"end":24586.01,"text":"還兵經行政院核定"},{"start":24586.01,"end":24588.01,"text":"應送立法院備查"},{"start":24588.01,"end":24590.01,"text":"哇這個就是大學問了"},{"start":24590.01,"end":24592.01,"text":"最近聽說國民黨有"},{"start":24592.01,"end":24594.01,"text":"建言說要將國統綱領"},{"start":24594.01,"end":24596.01,"text":"繼續來發揚光大"},{"start":24596.01,"end":24598.01,"text":"要將國統會恢復運作"},{"start":24598.01,"end":24600.01,"text":"老實說啊"},{"start":24600.01,"end":24602.01,"text":"當年的國統綱領在總統府那時候"},{"start":24602.01,"end":24604.01,"text":"的宣示李登輝前總統在"},{"start":24604.01,"end":24606.01,"text":"1991年也沒有送到"},{"start":24606.01,"end":24608.01,"text":"立法院來弄一個所謂的"},{"start":24608.01,"end":24610.01,"text":"什麼什麼綱領啊"},{"start":24610.01,"end":24612.01,"text":"所以呢有見於處"},{"start":24612.01,"end":24614.01,"text":"我是覺得既然如此民眾黨黨團的這個"},{"start":24614.01,"end":24616.01,"text":"提案呢其實是可以分流"},{"start":24616.01,"end":24618.01,"text":"就不用處理我們就認真的來討論"},{"start":24618.01,"end":24620.01,"text":"那個第六條那至於"},{"start":24620.01,"end":24622.01,"text":"國民黨的更可笑啦"},{"start":24622.01,"end":24624.01,"text":"他說第四條國防部應依"},{"start":24624.01,"end":24626.01,"text":"量大價廉"},{"start":24626.01,"end":24628.01,"text":"智慧化分布式的原則"},{"start":24628.01,"end":24630.01,"text":"這講得不錯嘛定定無人機"},{"start":24630.01,"end":24632.01,"text":"無人載具防衛體系"},{"start":24632.01,"end":24634.01,"text":"之中長期"},{"start":24634.01,"end":24636.01,"text":"發展目標這個很適合"},{"start":24636.01,"end":24638.01,"text":"在年度預算的時候放在主決議裡面"},{"start":24638.01,"end":24640.01,"text":"並且以兩年滾動檢討"},{"start":24640.01,"end":24642.01,"text":"一次並依台海安全"},{"start":24642.01,"end":24644.01,"text":"情勢變化及國際先進"},{"start":24644.01,"end":24646.01,"text":"國家之發展趨勢調整"},{"start":24646.01,"end":24648.01,"text":"這個太像我們在審"},{"start":24648.01,"end":24650.01,"text":"立法院在審行政院"},{"start":24650.01,"end":24652.01,"text":"年度預算的主決議文"},{"start":24652.01,"end":24654.01,"text":"然後經濟部應會同國防部"},{"start":24654.01,"end":24656.01,"text":"每年向立法院提出無人載具"},{"start":24656.01,"end":24658.01,"text":"提升國防戰力產業發展"},{"start":24658.01,"end":24660.01,"text":"科技創新及經濟效益"},{"start":24660.01,"end":24662.01,"text":"階段性的發展報告"},{"start":24662.01,"end":24664.01,"text":"我是建議啊國民黨黨團團你們這個"},{"start":24664.01,"end":24666.01,"text":"這個條文其實可以放在"},{"start":24666.01,"end":24668.01,"text":"我們年度預算審的時候放在主決議"},{"start":24668.01,"end":24670.01,"text":"還比較相稱"},{"start":24670.01,"end":24672.01,"text":"放在一個"},{"start":24671.26,"end":24673.26,"text":"放在一個這樣的一個專法裡面"},{"start":24673.26,"end":24675.26,"text":"感覺上有點"},{"start":24675.26,"end":24677.26,"text":"有點有點"},{"start":24677.26,"end":24679.26,"text":"好像位階上不太對稱"},{"start":24679.26,"end":24681.26,"text":"一個私下的建議謝謝"},{"start":24684.87,"end":24686.87,"text":"好"},{"start":24687.65,"end":24689.65,"text":"拜拜拜拜拜拜"},{"start":24689.66,"end":24691.66,"text":"其實各位都誤會了因為"},{"start":24691.66,"end":24693.66,"text":"這個預算當然你就會寫到第六條"},{"start":24693.66,"end":24695.66,"text":"年度預算就不會有這幾條"},{"start":24695.66,"end":24697.66,"text":"就這樣子所以也因為在前面"},{"start":24697.66,"end":24699.66,"text":"這邊的不同所以我們第六條"},{"start":24699.66,"end":24701.66,"text":"也是一樣保留"},{"start":24702.43,"end":24704.43,"text":"然後接下來的話就是跟"},{"start":24704.91,"end":24706.91,"text":"也不能講說因為行政院的"},{"start":24706.91,"end":24708.91,"text":"條文到這邊就"},{"start":24709.23,"end":24711.23,"text":"差不多結束因為他直接就跳到"},{"start":24711.23,"end":24713.23,"text":"最後面那個實施的日期了"},{"start":24713.23,"end":24715.23,"text":"但是在這裡頭"},{"start":24715.23,"end":24717.23,"text":"來講的話基本上"},{"start":24721.45,"end":24723.45,"text":"這個是回到我們早上談的問題"},{"start":24723.45,"end":24725.45,"text":"啊不要"},{"start":24725.45,"end":24727.45,"text":"我們就提我們的版本我們的版本我們現在已經把它整了"},{"start":24727.45,"end":24729.45,"text":"把它整了"},{"start":24729.45,"end":24731.45,"text":"整成是這樣因為就像後來"},{"start":24731.45,"end":24733.45,"text":"中嘉賓委員後面也是一樣有些是"},{"start":24733.45,"end":24735.45,"text":"也只有你的這一個到產"},{"start":24735.45,"end":24737.45,"text":"因為行政院版也沒有行政院版"},{"start":24737.45,"end":24739.45,"text":"也沒有"},{"start":24739.25,"end":24741.25,"text":"不是啊你就一條一條我已經幫你們整理好了嘛"},{"start":24741.25,"end":24743.25,"text":"所以就一條一條來就這樣子"},{"start":24743.25,"end":24745.25,"text":"這個"},{"start":24745.56,"end":24747.56,"text":"經紀人會這邊開始"},{"start":24750.56,"end":24752.56,"text":"你要有一個follow的一個順序嘛"},{"start":24752.56,"end":24754.56,"text":"對啊所以現在就是第14頁"},{"start":24754.56,"end":24756.56,"text":"第14頁"},{"start":24758.56,"end":24760.56,"text":"國民黨的第四條"},{"start":24760.56,"end":24762.56,"text":"國民黨的第四條"},{"start":24762.56,"end":24764.56,"text":"跟台灣民眾黨團的第五條"},{"start":24766.78,"end":24768.78,"text":"我跟甘迷"},{"start":24769.16,"end":24771.16,"text":"沒有國統抗聯"},{"start":24771.16,"end":24773.16,"text":"來來來"},{"start":24775.7,"end":24777.7,"text":"五決一就可以了"},{"start":24777.7,"end":24779.7,"text":"五決一了"},{"start":24780.41,"end":24782.41,"text":"好那就是兩個版本我們都保留啊"},{"start":24784.82,"end":24788.82,"text":"再來是國民黨黨團的提案的第五條"},{"start":24792.97,"end":24794.97,"text":"要不要請教一下"},{"start":24795.4,"end":24797.4,"text":"這你們現在看起來就是要馬上又過水過去了"},{"start":24797.4,"end":24799.4,"text":"來我請教一下國民黨團的提案"},{"start":24799.4,"end":24801.4,"text":"是不是能夠請國民黨說明一下"},{"start":24801.4,"end":24803.4,"text":"第四條"},{"start":24803.4,"end":24805.4,"text":"國防部應依量大"},{"start":24805.4,"end":24807.4,"text":"價廉"},{"start":24807.4,"end":24809.4,"text":"智慧化分布式"},{"start":24809.4,"end":24811.4,"text":"資源擇"},{"start":24811.4,"end":24813.4,"text":"分布式資源擇"},{"start":24813.4,"end":24815.4,"text":"訂定無人載具防衛"},{"start":24815.4,"end":24817.4,"text":"體系之中長期"},{"start":24817.4,"end":24819.4,"text":"發展目標並"},{"start":24819.4,"end":24821.4,"text":"每兩年滾動檢討一次"},{"start":24821.4,"end":24823.4,"text":"請問這是什麼意思"},{"start":24823.4,"end":24825.4,"text":"來那個國防部"},{"start":24826.65,"end":24828.65,"text":"不是啊"},{"start":24828.02,"end":24830.02,"text":"那個就是保留了"},{"start":24830.02,"end":24832.02,"text":"就你兩個性質不同嘛"},{"start":24832.02,"end":24834.02,"text":"來我請教我可不可以請教一下國民黨黨團"},{"start":24836.55,"end":24838.55,"text":"國民黨黨團你們寫這個條文"},{"start":24838.55,"end":24840.55,"text":"這個是要怎麼執行"},{"start":24840.55,"end":24842.55,"text":"是要怎麼做"},{"start":24842.55,"end":24844.55,"text":"這個國防部能不能回應一下"},{"start":24844.55,"end":24846.55,"text":"什麼叫做量大"},{"start":24846.55,"end":24848.55,"text":"價廉"},{"start":24848.55,"end":24850.55,"text":"智慧化分布式"},{"start":24853.46,"end":24855.46,"text":"請問這是要怎麼做"},{"start":24855.93,"end":24857.93,"text":"啊那寫條文的人是誰"},{"start":24857.93,"end":24859.93,"text":"可以說來說明一下嗎"},{"start":24859.02,"end":24861.02,"text":"我們才要摔下頭皮什麼人"},{"start":24861.02,"end":24863.02,"text":"量大價廉"},{"start":24863.02,"end":24865.02,"text":"就是心扉指甲"},{"start":24865.02,"end":24867.02,"text":"就比較簡單"},{"start":24867.02,"end":24869.02,"text":"就小到大就這樣"},{"start":24869.02,"end":24871.02,"text":"分布式就是"},{"start":24871.02,"end":24873.02,"text":"這個去中心"},{"start":24873.02,"end":24875.02,"text":"我不是亂講的"},{"start":24875.02,"end":24877.02,"text":"尊重你的寫出來"},{"start":24877.02,"end":24879.02,"text":"你也要量大價廉"},{"start":24879.02,"end":24881.02,"text":"要求不買嘛"},{"start":24881.02,"end":24883.02,"text":"國防的採購一定是要"},{"start":24883.02,"end":24885.02,"text":"需求是什麼就買什麼"},{"start":24885.02,"end":24887.02,"text":"怎麼會寫量大價廉"},{"start":24887.02,"end":24889.02,"text":"不"},{"start":24887.92,"end":24889.92,"text":"分布式"},{"start":24889.92,"end":24891.92,"text":"他已經念過"},{"start":24891.92,"end":24893.92,"text":"然後決議了"},{"start":24893.92,"end":24895.92,"text":"他已經念過了"},{"start":24895.92,"end":24897.92,"text":"有"},{"start":24897.3,"end":24899.3,"text":"這一條沒討論"},{"start":24899.3,"end":24901.3,"text":"現在不是要討論這一條"},{"start":24902.97,"end":24904.97,"text":"現在到第幾條"},{"start":24904.97,"end":24906.97,"text":"到第15"},{"start":24906.97,"end":24908.97,"text":"第15後的第"},{"start":24908.97,"end":24910.97,"text":"國民黨團的第5條了"},{"start":24911.18,"end":24913.18,"text":"好啦那沒關係那我現在回來第4條請教一下可以嗎主席"},{"start":24915.53,"end":24917.53,"text":"為什麼不可以"},{"start":24917.15,"end":24919.15,"text":"立法院這是什麼決議"},{"start":24919.15,"end":24921.15,"text":"請問你們誰要調查"},{"start":24921.15,"end":24923.15,"text":"這是什麼意思"},{"start":24923.15,"end":24925.15,"text":"你剛剛也在會議當中"},{"start":24925.15,"end":24927.15,"text":"你如果沒有在會議當中"},{"start":24927.15,"end":24929.15,"text":"你也在這裡"},{"start":24929.15,"end":24931.15,"text":"對啊你已經從頭到尾"},{"start":24931.15,"end":24933.15,"text":"那個主席"},{"start":24933.15,"end":24935.15,"text":"有注意覺得你沒聽到嗎"},{"start":24935.15,"end":24937.15,"text":"請說明一下什麼是量大價廉"},{"start":24937.15,"end":24939.15,"text":"分布性嘛"},{"start":24939.09,"end":24941.09,"text":"對我剛剛已經念完保留了"},{"start":24941.09,"end":24943.09,"text":"主席啊"},{"start":24942.5,"end":24944.5,"text":"你要這樣子念的話"},{"start":24944.5,"end":24946.5,"text":"你就直接每一條就念保留"},{"start":24946.5,"end":24948.5,"text":"我們不要在這裡花一整天的時間嘛"},{"start":24948.5,"end":24950.5,"text":"你除了掛水以外你還是放水嘛"},{"start":24951.37,"end":24953.37,"text":"胡搞路瞎搞"},{"start":24954.65,"end":24956.65,"text":"我給你的"},{"start":24956.65,"end":24958.65,"text":"你這樣練過就算了嗎"},{"start":24958.65,"end":24960.65,"text":"幫我們幹什麼東西啊"},{"start":24960.65,"end":24962.65,"text":"我給你的財政委員會好一點啊"},{"start":24962.65,"end":24964.65,"text":"真的"},{"start":24966.85,"end":24968.85,"text":"你不要跟別人比啦"},{"start":24968.85,"end":24970.85,"text":"誰是財政委員會的"},{"start":24970.85,"end":24972.85,"text":"今天我們本來就是要認真討論啦"},{"start":24972.85,"end":24974.85,"text":"以前全專條例不就是這樣子嗎"},{"start":24974.85,"end":24976.85,"text":"全專條例怎麼樣"},{"start":24977.19,"end":24979.19,"text":"你們還不是拿全專條例來當你們的戰績"},{"start":24980.57,"end":24982.57,"text":"沒人啦"},{"start":24982.44,"end":24984.44,"text":"來國民黨農村提案第五條"},{"start":24984.44,"end":24986.44,"text":"十五月幾下"},{"start":24986.44,"end":24988.44,"text":"請說明主席"},{"start":24989,"end":24991,"text":"請說明"},{"start":24990.52,"end":24992.52,"text":"白習剛剛的提問請說明請回答"},{"start":24993.81,"end":24995.81,"text":"剛剛賴志寶委員回答了"},{"start":24995.81,"end":24997.81,"text":"聽不懂請說明"},{"start":25001.04,"end":25003.04,"text":"我不是國防部長"},{"start":25003.04,"end":25005.04,"text":"我也不是經濟部次長"},{"start":25005.04,"end":25007.04,"text":"我們一定要回答你"},{"start":25007.04,"end":25009.04,"text":"這個已經念過去的一個提案"},{"start":25009.04,"end":25011.04,"text":"已經是保留的"},{"start":25011.04,"end":25013.04,"text":"你要回去"},{"start":25012.85,"end":25014.85,"text":"立委彼此尊重"},{"start":25014.85,"end":25016.85,"text":"我們是監督"},{"start":25016.85,"end":25018.85,"text":"這樣吵架就沒有意思了"},{"start":25018.85,"end":25020.85,"text":"我們是監督行政部門"},{"start":25020.85,"end":25022.85,"text":"我們是有權利"},{"start":25022.85,"end":25024.85,"text":"要求行政部門做說明"},{"start":25024.85,"end":25026.85,"text":"所以你再兇再怎麼樣"},{"start":25026.85,"end":25028.85,"text":"再尖銳都應該去針對行政部門"},{"start":25028.85,"end":25030.85,"text":"針對立委之間"},{"start":25030.85,"end":25032.85,"text":"老實講"},{"start":25032.85,"end":25034.85,"text":"這打通詐詐累累的只是在搞這裡"},{"start":25034.85,"end":25036.85,"text":"沒有意思啦"},{"start":25036.85,"end":25038.85,"text":"吵架沒有意思啦"},{"start":25038.85,"end":25040.85,"text":"吵架沒有意思啦"},{"start":25040.85,"end":25042.85,"text":"沒有意思啦"},{"start":25046.33,"end":25048.33,"text":"這個就是阿爸啦"},{"start":25048.33,"end":25050.33,"text":"人家在提問你們就直接第六條"},{"start":25050.33,"end":25052.33,"text":"第七條第八條就過去了"},{"start":25052.33,"end":25054.33,"text":"這就是阿爸嘛"},{"start":25054.33,"end":25056.33,"text":"這是阿爸嘛"},{"start":25056.33,"end":25060.33,"text":"我們還在進行國民黨黨堂提案第五條"},{"start":25060.33,"end":25062.33,"text":"這變成了"},{"start":25063.79,"end":25065.79,"text":"國民黨黨堂的第五條"},{"start":25067.64,"end":25069.64,"text":"國民黨說明啊"},{"start":25070.54,"end":25072.54,"text":"這也不用說明啦"},{"start":25073.99,"end":25075.99,"text":"那我來問一下"},{"start":25076.03,"end":25078.03,"text":"這個第五條"},{"start":25078.03,"end":25080.03,"text":"現在講台灣調寶第十五頁"},{"start":25080.03,"end":25082.03,"text":"我知道現在我們的主席"},{"start":25082.03,"end":25084.03,"text":"辛吉盧粉希望趕快能夠"},{"start":25084.03,"end":25086.03,"text":"早點"},{"start":25086.03,"end":25088.03,"text":"第五條"},{"start":25088.03,"end":25090.03,"text":"第五條"},{"start":25090.03,"end":25092.03,"text":"無人載具防衛"},{"start":25092.03,"end":25094.03,"text":"體系之規劃"},{"start":25094.03,"end":25096.03,"text":"應遵循分布式任性原則"},{"start":25096.03,"end":25098.03,"text":"我想念到這裡沒有人反對"},{"start":25098.03,"end":25100.03,"text":"避免集中部署或集中生產"},{"start":25100.03,"end":25102.03,"text":"我想這也沒有人想要集中"},{"start":25102.03,"end":25104.03,"text":"部署跟集中生產"},{"start":25104.03,"end":25106.03,"text":"俄羅斯也不會這樣做"},{"start":25106.03,"end":25108.03,"text":"但是第一款"},{"start":25108.03,"end":25110.03,"text":"無人載具自生產基地應分布於至少三個不同縣市"},{"start":25110.03,"end":25112.03,"text":"不得集中於單一地理區域"},{"start":25112.03,"end":25114.03,"text":"以降低遭受集中打擊之風險"},{"start":25114.03,"end":25116.03,"text":"講得很好啊"},{"start":25116.03,"end":25118.03,"text":"但是不知道怎麼定義啊"},{"start":25119.73,"end":25121.73,"text":"單一地理區域"},{"start":25121.62,"end":25123.62,"text":"屏東跟高雄算不算單一地理區"},{"start":25124.83,"end":25126.83,"text":"台南高雄屏東算不算單一地理區域"},{"start":25126.83,"end":25128.83,"text":"那如果分布在台南屏東"},{"start":25128.83,"end":25130.83,"text":"高雄三個縣市不同縣市"},{"start":25130.83,"end":25132.83,"text":"這樣有沒有算達成這個條文"},{"start":25132.83,"end":25134.83,"text":"所規定的要求"},{"start":25134.83,"end":25136.83,"text":"還是說"},{"start":25136.83,"end":25138.83,"text":"這個單一地理區域是什麼"},{"start":25138.83,"end":25140.83,"text":"我是覺得法律條文"},{"start":25140.83,"end":25142.83,"text":"如果是寫原則性的"},{"start":25142.83,"end":25144.83,"text":"指導是可以"},{"start":25144.83,"end":25146.83,"text":"法律條文顯成這樣子"},{"start":25146.83,"end":25148.83,"text":"我們真的不曉得未來如何去認定"},{"start":25148.83,"end":25150.83,"text":"他的有沒有依法執行"},{"start":25150.83,"end":25152.83,"text":"第二款無人載具自戰備"},{"start":25152.83,"end":25154.83,"text":"儲存因分散於不同據點"},{"start":25154.83,"end":25156.83,"text":"我想"},{"start":25157.1,"end":25159.1,"text":"不要說是我們顧部長當部長啦"},{"start":25160.08,"end":25162.08,"text":"現在"},{"start":25161.15,"end":25163.15,"text":"也不用像烏克蘭以前的蘇發部長"},{"start":25163.15,"end":25165.15,"text":"去當國防部長的樣子啦"},{"start":25165.04,"end":25167.04,"text":"任何只要看過好萊塢電影的都知道"},{"start":25167.04,"end":25169.04,"text":"戰備儲存怎麼可能不分散"},{"start":25170.46,"end":25172.46,"text":"至於單一儲存存量"},{"start":25172.46,"end":25174.46,"text":"不得超過總戰備存量的25%"},{"start":25174.46,"end":25176.46,"text":"我就不曉得這個"},{"start":25176.46,"end":25178.46,"text":"1%是怎麼推算出來的啦"},{"start":25178.83,"end":25180.83,"text":"第一個條文喔"},{"start":25180.83,"end":25182.83,"text":"要訂定喔"},{"start":25182.83,"end":25184.83,"text":"主要能夠明確可以執行之外"},{"start":25184.83,"end":25186.83,"text":"要告訴大家"},{"start":25186.83,"end":25188.83,"text":"那為什麼不是1%"},{"start":25188.83,"end":25190.83,"text":"為什麼不是1%"},{"start":25190.83,"end":25192.83,"text":"為什麼是1%"},{"start":25188.13,"end":25190.13,"text":"無人載具第三款無人載具操作及指揮系統"},{"start":25190.13,"end":25192.13,"text":"因建立分散式備援架構"},{"start":25192.13,"end":25194.13,"text":"從頭到尾都是分散分散再分散"},{"start":25196.19,"end":25198.19,"text":"確保單點施效不致癱瘓整體作戰能力"},{"start":25199.6,"end":25201.6,"text":"這個有需要寫嗎"},{"start":25201.22,"end":25203.22,"text":"哪一個人當國防部長"},{"start":25203.22,"end":25205.22,"text":"會去把無人載具做集中式的"},{"start":25205.22,"end":25207.22,"text":"缺乏韌性的分布"},{"start":25207.22,"end":25209.22,"text":"所以這個好比在我們挑溫協啊"},{"start":25209.22,"end":25211.22,"text":"本預算之執行"},{"start":25211.22,"end":25213.22,"text":"必須太陽從東邊升起來才可以執行"},{"start":25213.96,"end":25215.96,"text":"太陽從東邊升起來不就是我本來就應該如此的嗎"},{"start":25215.96,"end":25217.96,"text":"還需要你挑溫協"},{"start":25217.96,"end":25219.96,"text":"本預..本..本條例之執行"},{"start":25219.96,"end":25221.96,"text":"必須是太陽從東邊升起來"},{"start":25223.36,"end":25225.36,"text":"所以我們是覺得今天"},{"start":25225.78,"end":25227.78,"text":"好我們來一度懷疑說"},{"start":25227.78,"end":25229.78,"text":"這個賴委員的版本"},{"start":25229.78,"end":25231.78,"text":"A版的部分感覺上之前前幾條看起來有點道理"},{"start":25231.78,"end":25233.78,"text":"到國民黨的版本終於知道了"},{"start":25233.78,"end":25235.78,"text":"為什麼國民黨黨團版本出來之後"},{"start":25235.78,"end":25237.78,"text":"要趕快由賴斯堡委員推出AV兩版"},{"start":25237.78,"end":25239.78,"text":"因為國民黨黨團版本"},{"start":25239.78,"end":25241.78,"text":"說的也是一句話"},{"start":25244.47,"end":25246.47,"text":"出師表啊"},{"start":25246.47,"end":25248.47,"text":"靈表剔氣不知所云啊"},{"start":25248.47,"end":25250.47,"text":"寫這些理所當然的事情放在條文裡面"},{"start":25250.47,"end":25252.47,"text":"你一個主決意就可以啦"},{"start":25252.47,"end":25254.47,"text":"立法院常常這種主決意啊理所當然的事情"},{"start":25254.47,"end":25256.47,"text":"再重申一遍"},{"start":25256.47,"end":25258.47,"text":"放在條文完全沒有必要"},{"start":25258.47,"end":25260.47,"text":"本席建議這第五條根本拿掉"},{"start":25261.5,"end":25263.5,"text":"來賴斯堡委員"},{"start":25265.01,"end":25267.01,"text":"我再回過來我覺得我們的"},{"start":25267.01,"end":25269.01,"text":"憲政大家能夠坐在這裡就是"},{"start":25269.01,"end":25271.01,"text":"我們的憲法給我們這樣的職權"},{"start":25271.01,"end":25273.01,"text":"我們職權"},{"start":25273.01,"end":25275.01,"text":"就是來監督行政部門"},{"start":25275.01,"end":25277.01,"text":"所以我就請教"},{"start":25277.01,"end":25279.01,"text":"我覺得這個答案不是叫國民黨團來回答"},{"start":25279.01,"end":25281.01,"text":"國民黨團提案已經寫出來了"},{"start":25281.01,"end":25283.01,"text":"不是叫我們回答我們沒有當家"},{"start":25283.01,"end":25285.01,"text":"請顧部長"},{"start":25285.01,"end":25287.01,"text":"表達意見第五條"},{"start":25287.01,"end":25289.01,"text":"你能不能夠接受你告訴我們"},{"start":25289.01,"end":25291.01,"text":"Yes No 就這樣子"},{"start":25291.01,"end":25293.01,"text":"你可以接受我們就過不能接受我們就"},{"start":25293.01,"end":25295.01,"text":"就這樣子"},{"start":25295.01,"end":25297.01,"text":"太陽從後面升出來你能不能接受"},{"start":25297.01,"end":25299.01,"text":"太陽從後面升出來你能不能接受"},{"start":25299.01,"end":25301.01,"text":"國民黨團要具體報復主席"},{"start":25301.01,"end":25303.01,"text":"我具體要求顧部長"},{"start":25303.01,"end":25305.01,"text":"要跟我們說"},{"start":25305.01,"end":25307.01,"text":"你的國民黨團立場"},{"start":25307.01,"end":25309.01,"text":"可以接受國民黨團第五條"},{"start":25309.01,"end":25311.01,"text":"可不可以"},{"start":25310.29,"end":25312.29,"text":"請部長"},{"start":25317.51,"end":25319.51,"text":"主席 各位委員我想"},{"start":25319.51,"end":25321.51,"text":"條文不是我們國防部定的"},{"start":25321.51,"end":25323.51,"text":"我只是提出我個人從物資上看的"},{"start":25323.51,"end":25325.51,"text":"一些疑點"},{"start":25325.51,"end":25327.51,"text":"第一點就是說無人載具包含的範圍"},{"start":25327.51,"end":25329.51,"text":"甚廣"},{"start":25328.49,"end":25330.49,"text":"生產基地指的是什麼"},{"start":25331.57,"end":25333.57,"text":"是指每個關鍵的零組件的生產"},{"start":25333.57,"end":25335.57,"text":"還是整機的生產"},{"start":25335.57,"end":25337.57,"text":"那還有所有的相關的"},{"start":25337.57,"end":25339.57,"text":"無人載具那個範圍"},{"start":25339.57,"end":25341.57,"text":"這麼多"},{"start":25341.57,"end":25343.57,"text":"那這個所謂的無人載具"},{"start":25343.57,"end":25345.57,"text":"是指單一的無人載具的"},{"start":25345.57,"end":25347.57,"text":"還是指每一個"},{"start":25347.57,"end":25349.57,"text":"項目的無人載具"},{"start":25349.57,"end":25351.57,"text":"我並不是瞭解他的意思"},{"start":25351.57,"end":25353.57,"text":"那第二個就是說"},{"start":25353.57,"end":25355.57,"text":"無人載具的戰備儲存"},{"start":25355.98,"end":25357.98,"text":"有關於單一據點的儲存量不可以超過"},{"start":25357.98,"end":25361.98,"text":"我個人覺得我們戰備的這個儲存量"},{"start":25361.98,"end":25363.98,"text":"要多少"},{"start":25363.98,"end":25365.98,"text":"這個我們不需要"},{"start":25367.73,"end":25369.73,"text":"在立法裡面"},{"start":25370.6,"end":25372.6,"text":"公開的來對我們做"},{"start":25372.6,"end":25374.6,"text":"任何有關我們相關部署"},{"start":25374.6,"end":25376.6,"text":"上面的一個要求"},{"start":25376.6,"end":25378.6,"text":"我們的我們應該要怎麼樣的"},{"start":25378.6,"end":25380.6,"text":"一個部署我們國防部會"},{"start":25380.6,"end":25382.6,"text":"本以我們的專業來進行"},{"start":25382.6,"end":25384.6,"text":"那至於無人載具是操作指引"},{"start":25386.17,"end":25388.17,"text":"及指揮系統應建立什麼什麼什麼"},{"start":25388.17,"end":25390.17,"text":"確保單年我覺得"},{"start":25390.78,"end":25392.78,"text":"這樣子的一個規範"},{"start":25393.28,"end":25395.28,"text":"我必須要"},{"start":25395.28,"end":25397.28,"text":"這個有規範跟沒規範"},{"start":25398.22,"end":25400.22,"text":"沒有規範"},{"start":25399.66,"end":25401.66,"text":"跟有規範的意義在哪裡"},{"start":25401.66,"end":25403.66,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":25403.23,"end":25405.23,"text":"就我來看任何的條"},{"start":25405.23,"end":25407.23,"text":"任何的立法都要有其"},{"start":25407.23,"end":25409.23,"text":"規範的目的"},{"start":25409.66,"end":25411.66,"text":"的規範性的意義"},{"start":25411.66,"end":25413.66,"text":"那我沒有辦法能夠理解"},{"start":25413.66,"end":25415.66,"text":"這些規範的目的的意義"},{"start":25415.66,"end":25417.66,"text":"是在什麼地方我沒有辦法能夠理解"},{"start":25420.38,"end":25422.38,"text":"啊"},{"start":25422.15,"end":25424.15,"text":"好所以部長應該也沒辦法確認"},{"start":25427.5,"end":25429.5,"text":"各位"},{"start":25430.39,"end":25432.39,"text":"主席我其實針對第五條"},{"start":25432.39,"end":25434.39,"text":"認為有疑義的地方"},{"start":25434.39,"end":25436.39,"text":"是在於基於國安"},{"start":25436.39,"end":25438.39,"text":"的需求喔我們這些"},{"start":25438.39,"end":25440.39,"text":"無人載具現在國民黨"},{"start":25440.39,"end":25442.39,"text":"提出來的是要求分佈"},{"start":25442.39,"end":25444.39,"text":"至少三個不同的縣市"},{"start":25444.39,"end":25446.39,"text":"然後不得集中於單一"},{"start":25446.39,"end":25448.39,"text":"的區域首先呢就像"},{"start":25448.39,"end":25450.39,"text":"剛剛顧部長提到的無人載具是"},{"start":25450.39,"end":25452.39,"text":"指無人機無人艇"},{"start":25452.39,"end":25454.39,"text":"啊等等的全部的"},{"start":25454.39,"end":25456.39,"text":"那你"},{"start":25455.83,"end":25457.83,"text":"無人機無人艇或等等你說不可以"},{"start":25457.83,"end":25459.83,"text":"應分佈於至少"},{"start":25459.83,"end":25461.83,"text":"三個不同的縣市喔"},{"start":25461.83,"end":25463.83,"text":"那我們都知道其實很多我們的"},{"start":25463.83,"end":25465.83,"text":"國防的設備跟布點"},{"start":25465.83,"end":25467.83,"text":"其實這是國家機密吧"},{"start":25467.83,"end":25469.83,"text":"如果說今天"},{"start":25469.83,"end":25471.83,"text":"因為這一條訂定了之後"},{"start":25471.83,"end":25473.83,"text":"那是不是要到立法院來"},{"start":25473.83,"end":25475.83,"text":"說明公佈"},{"start":25475.83,"end":25477.83,"text":"那這可不是大"},{"start":25477.83,"end":25479.83,"text":"大大的跟我們的敵國"},{"start":25479.83,"end":25481.83,"text":"告訴他說我這邊有"},{"start":25481.83,"end":25483.83,"text":"無人機喔而且有什麼樣的無人機喔"},{"start":25483.83,"end":25485.83,"text":"我這邊有無人艦喔"},{"start":25485.83,"end":25487.83,"text":"然後我分佈在什麼樣的地方喔"},{"start":25487.83,"end":25489.83,"text":"然後我現在這個所謂無人"},{"start":25491.41,"end":25493.41,"text":"載具的所謂儲存"},{"start":25493.41,"end":25495.41,"text":"那他說不可以在同樣一個"},{"start":25495.41,"end":25497.41,"text":"據點嘛單一又"},{"start":25497.41,"end":25499.41,"text":"存量不可以超過25%"},{"start":25499.41,"end":25501.41,"text":"那為了驗證"},{"start":25501.41,"end":25503.41,"text":"是不是有欺騙國會"},{"start":25503.41,"end":25505.41,"text":"然後國會的立法所以要請"},{"start":25505.41,"end":25507.41,"text":"顧部長來報告"},{"start":25507.41,"end":25509.41,"text":"所以這不是把我們的戰力"},{"start":25509.41,"end":25511.41,"text":"分佈點以及他的"},{"start":25512.28,"end":25514.28,"text":"到底他的戰備在什麼地方"},{"start":25514.28,"end":25516.28,"text":"啊不都見光被看到了嗎"},{"start":25516.28,"end":25518.28,"text":"但是我們也知道我們因應"},{"start":25518.28,"end":25520.28,"text":"國防需求我們有一些"},{"start":25520.28,"end":25522.28,"text":"地方的布點他可能"},{"start":25522.28,"end":25524.28,"text":"第一線面對的壓力很大"},{"start":25524.28,"end":25526.28,"text":"所以他可能會密集度高一點"},{"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我想這涉及到相當"},{"start":26094.33,"end":26096.33,"text":"多的部會"},{"start":26096.33,"end":26098.33,"text":"這是行政院層級的"},{"start":26098.33,"end":26100.33,"text":"部分不可能由國防部直接"},{"start":26100.33,"end":26102.33,"text":"跟地方政府來做"},{"start":26102.33,"end":26104.33,"text":"那有關這個民眾黨團所提的"},{"start":26104.33,"end":26106.33,"text":"國防部應盤點適當軍事演習"},{"start":26106.33,"end":26108.33,"text":"或軍事線作為軍用無人機"},{"start":26108.33,"end":26110.33,"text":"系統專門測試場域"},{"start":26110.33,"end":26112.33,"text":"我想這個部分如果說是國防部"},{"start":26112.33,"end":26114.33,"text":"專門作為軍用測試場域"},{"start":26114.33,"end":26116.33,"text":"我認為也不以立法的方式"},{"start":26116.33,"end":26118.33,"text":"來覓定在這個地方"},{"start":26118.33,"end":26120.33,"text":"這個是並不適當的"},{"start":26120.33,"end":26122.33,"text":"立法的模式"},{"start":26123.97,"end":26125.97,"text":"國防部就表示意見到這裡"},{"start":26127.96,"end":26129.96,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":26129.96,"end":26131.96,"text":"請中央辯委員"},{"start":26131.47,"end":26133.47,"text":"主席我們現在看到條文最大表第16、17了"},{"start":26133.47,"end":26135.47,"text":"我真的也是很"},{"start":26135.47,"end":26137.47,"text":"訝異"},{"start":26137.21,"end":26139.21,"text":"我的版本第12條的測試場域"},{"start":26139.21,"end":26141.21,"text":"居然跟"},{"start":26140.62,"end":26142.62,"text":"國民黨的第6條和民眾黨的第7條"},{"start":26142.62,"end":26144.62,"text":"放在一起"},{"start":26144.62,"end":26146.62,"text":"其實內容是大相徑庭"},{"start":26146.62,"end":26148.62,"text":"剛剛邱委員問我說這個測試場域"},{"start":26148.62,"end":26150.62,"text":"你怎麼有測試場域"},{"start":26150.62,"end":26152.62,"text":"這就是主席在上午的時候"},{"start":26152.62,"end":26154.62,"text":"並沒有做分流的結果"},{"start":26154.62,"end":26156.62,"text":"我是第12條"},{"start":26156.62,"end":26158.62,"text":"但是第12條第一項就是說"},{"start":26158.62,"end":26160.62,"text":"委員會因會同相關目的事業主管機關"},{"start":26160.62,"end":26162.62,"text":"與本條例"},{"start":26162.62,"end":26164.62,"text":"施行期間"},{"start":26164.62,"end":26166.62,"text":"好 什麼委員會"},{"start":26166.62,"end":26168.62,"text":"沒天沒老的蹦出來一個委員會"},{"start":26168.62,"end":26170.62,"text":"我剛剛不小心剛剛部部長把這個委員會說成是以為"},{"start":26170.62,"end":26172.62,"text":"我要求國防部做這個事情"},{"start":26172.62,"end":26174.62,"text":"沒有 這個委員會要看到"},{"start":26174.62,"end":26176.62,"text":"我的條文"},{"start":26176.62,"end":26178.62,"text":"條文對到第28條"},{"start":26178.62,"end":26180.62,"text":"我的條文第三條就寫"},{"start":26180.62,"end":26182.62,"text":"行政院因設無人"},{"start":26182.62,"end":26184.62,"text":"載具自主發展委員會"},{"start":26184.62,"end":26186.62,"text":"簡稱委員會"},{"start":26186.62,"end":26188.62,"text":"你總不能簡稱無人委員會吧"},{"start":26188.62,"end":26190.62,"text":"無人委員會就沒有人來啦"},{"start":26190.62,"end":26192.62,"text":"簡稱委員會 這個委員會統籌"},{"start":26192.62,"end":26194.62,"text":"協調無人載具產業發展"},{"start":26194.62,"end":26196.62,"text":"採購及本條例之相關政策"},{"start":26196.62,"end":26198.62,"text":"協調這些政策計畫"},{"start":26198.62,"end":26200.62,"text":"以及跨機關事項"},{"start":26200.62,"end":26202.62,"text":"並就各機關推動進行管考"},{"start":26202.62,"end":26204.62,"text":"它就像是一個行政院"},{"start":26204.62,"end":26206.62,"text":"層級的這個專案小組"},{"start":26206.62,"end":26208.62,"text":"只是說有條文明文規定"},{"start":26209.62,"end":26211.62,"text":"訂定這樣的一個委員會"},{"start":26211.62,"end":26213.62,"text":"委員會之組成任務"},{"start":26213.62,"end":26215.62,"text":"運作方式及利益回避"},{"start":26215.62,"end":26217.62,"text":"看到沒有 保密義務"},{"start":26217.62,"end":26219.62,"text":"國家安全查核機制"},{"start":26219.62,"end":26221.62,"text":"由行政院另以辦法定制"},{"start":26221.62,"end":26223.62,"text":"本席的版本很清楚"},{"start":26224.56,"end":26226.56,"text":"本席的版本不只是支持行政院"},{"start":26226.56,"end":26228.56,"text":"那三款無人機的"},{"start":26228.56,"end":26230.56,"text":"兩千一百億的特別預算採購"},{"start":26230.56,"end":26232.56,"text":"本席的版本當中"},{"start":26232.56,"end":26234.56,"text":"也認為行政院應該有一個"},{"start":26234.56,"end":26236.56,"text":"中央層級的"},{"start":26236.56,"end":26238.56,"text":"行政院層級的協調機制"},{"start":26238.56,"end":26240.56,"text":"這個委員會要做什麼事情"},{"start":26240.56,"end":26242.56,"text":"這個委員會要做的事情就在我"},{"start":26242.56,"end":26244.56,"text":"目前條文對照表第十六頁的"},{"start":26244.56,"end":26246.56,"text":"第十二條的測試場域"},{"start":26246.56,"end":26248.56,"text":"這個測試場域看起來也在講"},{"start":26248.56,"end":26250.56,"text":"跟國民黨的第六條"},{"start":26250.56,"end":26252.56,"text":"民主黨的第五條 第七條也很像"},{"start":26252.56,"end":26254.56,"text":"他這裡寫說"},{"start":26254.56,"end":26256.56,"text":"委員會應該要去"},{"start":26256.56,"end":26258.56,"text":"積極的化設或指定"},{"start":26258.56,"end":26260.56,"text":"無人載具專屬的入獄水域"},{"start":26260.56,"end":26262.56,"text":"及空域的實證測試場所"},{"start":26264.13,"end":26266.13,"text":"為什麼 因為目前"},{"start":26266.13,"end":26268.13,"text":"我們無人載具產業他們遇到了"},{"start":26268.13,"end":26270.13,"text":"很多水域"},{"start":26270.13,"end":26272.13,"text":"有航空法 空域有航空法"},{"start":26272.13,"end":26274.13,"text":"入獄還有所謂的道恩條例"},{"start":26274.13,"end":26276.13,"text":"這些"},{"start":26276.13,"end":26278.13,"text":"那前項的測試第二項"},{"start":26278.13,"end":26280.13,"text":"我的第二項寫前項的測試場域"},{"start":26280.13,"end":26282.13,"text":"得跨越二以上直轄"},{"start":26282.13,"end":26284.13,"text":"市縣市行政區域"},{"start":26284.13,"end":26286.13,"text":"或其鄰接的海域"},{"start":26286.13,"end":26288.13,"text":"我跟大家報告一下"},{"start":26288.13,"end":26290.13,"text":"目前長城的無人載具如果從"},{"start":26290.13,"end":26292.13,"text":"路上要飛到海上他有可能"},{"start":26292.13,"end":26294.13,"text":"所以我們高屏西 高雄跟屏東"},{"start":26294.13,"end":26296.13,"text":"他的空域"},{"start":26296.13,"end":26298.13,"text":"目前如果是屬於"},{"start":26298.13,"end":26300.13,"text":"民用的階段"},{"start":26300.13,"end":26302.13,"text":"是屬於農噴機也好"},{"start":26302.13,"end":26304.13,"text":"空拍機也好 分別由高雄市政府"},{"start":26304.13,"end":26306.13,"text":"跟屏東市政府來核定"},{"start":26306.13,"end":26308.13,"text":"那我一個高屏西上的空域到底是要跟誰申請"},{"start":26308.13,"end":26310.13,"text":"我跨兩個縣市我要跟誰申請"},{"start":26310.13,"end":26312.13,"text":"這都是目前產業界遇到的問題"},{"start":26312.13,"end":26314.13,"text":"所以我們才認為"},{"start":26314.13,"end":26316.13,"text":"為了發展無人載具產業"},{"start":26316.13,"end":26318.13,"text":"像這樣的測試場域"},{"start":26318.13,"end":26320.13,"text":"不管是入海空"},{"start":26320.13,"end":26322.13,"text":"我們應該有一個行政院層級的協調機制"},{"start":26322.13,"end":26324.13,"text":"來協助"},{"start":26324.13,"end":26326.13,"text":"就這樣的測試狼套來畫設"},{"start":26326.13,"end":26328.13,"text":"而且這個委員會在畫設的時候"},{"start":26328.13,"end":26330.13,"text":"他要去會商相關的"},{"start":26330.13,"end":26332.13,"text":"地方政府是基於這樣的思考"},{"start":26332.13,"end":26334.13,"text":"我們尊重現在"},{"start":26334.13,"end":26336.13,"text":"民用航空法當中的無人機專章"},{"start":26336.13,"end":26338.13,"text":"所設定的空域主管"},{"start":26338.13,"end":26340.13,"text":"地方主管機關的"},{"start":26340.13,"end":26342.13,"text":"權限我們希望"},{"start":26342.13,"end":26344.13,"text":"不要受制於這個不然的話"},{"start":26344.13,"end":26346.13,"text":"我從高屏西高雄管還是屏東管"},{"start":26346.13,"end":26348.13,"text":"我從高屏西"},{"start":26348.13,"end":26350.13,"text":"出海口出到小琉球"},{"start":26350.13,"end":26352.13,"text":"請問我出那個港面的時候"},{"start":26352.13,"end":26354.13,"text":"我會經過什麼我會經過交通部"},{"start":26354.13,"end":26356.13,"text":"那個航港局他們"},{"start":26356.13,"end":26358.13,"text":"管理的這個漁港交通"},{"start":26358.13,"end":26360.13,"text":"港觀光港那我要不要去"},{"start":26360.13,"end":26362.13,"text":"跟他申請所以我"},{"start":26362.13,"end":26364.13,"text":"這個條文當中很清楚"},{"start":26364.13,"end":26366.13,"text":"的是在講測試場域"},{"start":26366.13,"end":26368.13,"text":"需要有一個委員會行政院"},{"start":26368.13,"end":26370.13,"text":"層級的來協調各相關主管"},{"start":26370.13,"end":26372.13,"text":"機關這是有實務上的需要"},{"start":26372.13,"end":26374.13,"text":"但是我們看國民黨跟民主黨是什麼"},{"start":26374.13,"end":26376.13,"text":"他說國防部應會同"},{"start":26376.13,"end":26378.13,"text":"剛剛顧問說了國防部要怎麼去會同"},{"start":26378.13,"end":26380.13,"text":"而且是怎麼針對他的"},{"start":26380.13,"end":26382.13,"text":"第五條所定的不同地理區域"},{"start":26382.13,"end":26384.13,"text":"規劃至少三處的居民共用"},{"start":26384.13,"end":26386.13,"text":"測試場所怎麼把"},{"start":26386.13,"end":26388.13,"text":"這個測試場所的義務規則"},{"start":26388.13,"end":26390.13,"text":"給國防部按照第五條"},{"start":26390.13,"end":26392.13,"text":"的方式來設置這根本就是莫名其妙"},{"start":26392.13,"end":26394.13,"text":"本末倒置的事情我們"},{"start":26394.13,"end":26396.13,"text":"是要幫助產業解除智庫"},{"start":26396.13,"end":26398.13,"text":"解除束縛不是"},{"start":26398.13,"end":26400.13,"text":"莫名其妙要求國防部去做他跟他"},{"start":26400.13,"end":26402.13,"text":"一個戰備訓練無關的事務"},{"start":26402.13,"end":26404.13,"text":"所以國民黨這個版本跟本席"},{"start":26404.13,"end":26406.13,"text":"的電視要看放在一起我真的覺得莫名其妙"},{"start":26407.25,"end":26409.25,"text":"這就是因為我們版本沒有分流"},{"start":26409.25,"end":26411.25,"text":"造成了本席的條文跟"},{"start":26411.25,"end":26413.25,"text":"國民黨那個版本第五條的"},{"start":26413.25,"end":26415.25,"text":"串在一起我的應該跟第三條串"},{"start":26415.25,"end":26417.25,"text":"在一起再來講民眾黨團好了"},{"start":26417.25,"end":26419.25,"text":"也是一樣經濟部應會"},{"start":26419.25,"end":26421.25,"text":"同相關主管機關去劃設"},{"start":26421.25,"end":26423.25,"text":"無人機測試場域"},{"start":26423.25,"end":26425.25,"text":"測試走廊及示範區好了"},{"start":26425.25,"end":26427.25,"text":"那怎麼做如果真的要認真"},{"start":26427.25,"end":26429.25,"text":"來講本席的寫法很清楚"},{"start":26429.25,"end":26431.25,"text":"現在遇到什麼問題遇到"},{"start":26431.25,"end":26433.25,"text":"跨入海空的問題遇到跨"},{"start":26433.25,"end":26435.25,"text":"縣市轄在區的問題"},{"start":26435.25,"end":26437.25,"text":"這些才是真正問題"},{"start":26437.25,"end":26439.25,"text":"那麼如果民眾黨的版本都要寫"},{"start":26439.25,"end":26441.25,"text":"還不如用我的版本還有寫國防部"},{"start":26441.25,"end":26443.25,"text":"應盤點適當的軍事演習或軍事"},{"start":26443.25,"end":26445.25,"text":"訓練場所作為軍用無人機"},{"start":26445.25,"end":26447.25,"text":"測試的系統的專門測試場"},{"start":26447.66,"end":26449.66,"text":"國防部要怎麼去測試他的軍用無人機"},{"start":26449.66,"end":26451.66,"text":"還要你立法給他全責嗎"},{"start":26452.98,"end":26454.98,"text":"還需要嗎"},{"start":26455.34,"end":26457.34,"text":"我們都覺得"},{"start":26456.54,"end":26458.54,"text":"我甚至有跟他們說好啊"},{"start":26458.54,"end":26460.54,"text":"如果真的國防部要去測哪裡"},{"start":26460.54,"end":26462.54,"text":"最好"},{"start":26461.23,"end":26463.23,"text":"到菲律賓到蘇比克灣"},{"start":26463.23,"end":26465.23,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":26465.23,"end":26467.23,"text":"因為台灣的空域水域啊"},{"start":26467.23,"end":26469.23,"text":"無線電池波訊號太複雜"},{"start":26469.23,"end":26471.23,"text":"我們很難去測試"},{"start":26471.23,"end":26473.23,"text":"要一個乾淨的場域"},{"start":26473.23,"end":26475.23,"text":"菲律賓哇海域很多"},{"start":26475.23,"end":26477.23,"text":"我們乾脆到哪裡去測"},{"start":26477.23,"end":26479.23,"text":"到菲律賓去測"},{"start":26479.23,"end":26481.23,"text":"那國防部到菲律賓去測"},{"start":26481.23,"end":26483.23,"text":"還要你這個條例准他嗎"},{"start":26481.21,"end":26483.21,"text":"我們目前的國防戰備有他的高度機密性跟機動性"},{"start":26483.21,"end":26485.21,"text":"你還把這個寫下來"},{"start":26485.21,"end":26487.21,"text":"表面上是說國防"},{"start":26487.21,"end":26489.21,"text":"國防部要匯同地方政府"},{"start":26489.21,"end":26491.21,"text":"荒謬"},{"start":26491.2,"end":26493.2,"text":"民眾黨的版本說經濟部要匯同地方"},{"start":26493.2,"end":26495.2,"text":"然後國防部呢"},{"start":26495.2,"end":26497.2,"text":"還要演習場試運"},{"start":26497.2,"end":26499.2,"text":"還要呢有這個部分的授權"},{"start":26499.2,"end":26501.2,"text":"其實啊如果國防部"},{"start":26501.2,"end":26503.2,"text":"真的需要他們在軍事要在"},{"start":26503.2,"end":26505.2,"text":"基地條例裡面他們自然"},{"start":26505.2,"end":26507.2,"text":"的去去籌措調度"},{"start":26507.2,"end":26509.2,"text":"我們要解決的不是裝模作樣"},{"start":26509.2,"end":26511.2,"text":"去限制我們的國防發展"},{"start":26511.2,"end":26513.2,"text":"而是要真正的去讓產業"},{"start":26513.2,"end":26515.2,"text":"它是目前遇到的限制得以排除"},{"start":26515.2,"end":26517.2,"text":"所以我的條文是要"},{"start":26517.2,"end":26519.2,"text":"排除現在的不當限制"},{"start":26519.2,"end":26521.2,"text":"國眾兩黨呢是要額外加諸"},{"start":26521.2,"end":26523.2,"text":"國防部在戰備訓練以外"},{"start":26523.2,"end":26525.2,"text":"莫名其妙的任務"},{"start":26525.2,"end":26527.2,"text":"我覺得呢是很大的差別不同"},{"start":26527.2,"end":26529.2,"text":"本席反對國民黨跟民眾黨的版本"},{"start":26531.94,"end":26533.94,"text":"前王安祥委員"},{"start":26533.94,"end":26535.94,"text":"剛剛那個中委員說了說了這個"},{"start":26535.94,"end":26537.94,"text":"把國民黨跟民眾黨都混在一起"},{"start":26537.94,"end":26539.94,"text":"那我解釋一下民眾黨的版本"},{"start":26539.94,"end":26541.94,"text":"那第一項跟第二項"},{"start":26541.94,"end":26543.94,"text":"基本上就是我們現在所謂的測試場域"},{"start":26543.94,"end":26545.94,"text":"還有測試場域"},{"start":26545.94,"end":26547.94,"text":"跟示範區的一個制度"},{"start":26547.94,"end":26549.94,"text":"所以經濟部這邊"},{"start":26549.94,"end":26551.94,"text":"剛剛次長也說了現在已經有一些"},{"start":26551.94,"end":26553.94,"text":"過去的一些斷地"},{"start":26553.94,"end":26555.94,"text":"以供可以執行"},{"start":26555.94,"end":26557.94,"text":"那國防部這邊我們寫的是盤點"},{"start":26557.94,"end":26559.94,"text":"盤點還有一些測試的場域"},{"start":26559.94,"end":26561.94,"text":"那中委員說了我覺得菲律賓也是非常好的一個場域"},{"start":26561.94,"end":26563.94,"text":"我們只是說盤點而已"},{"start":26563.94,"end":26565.94,"text":"沒有盤點而已啦"},{"start":26565.94,"end":26567.94,"text":"那基本上剛剛中委員講到的"},{"start":26567.94,"end":26569.94,"text":"我們都寫在第三項裡面"},{"start":26569.94,"end":26571.94,"text":"也就是說如果在測試的時候"},{"start":26571.94,"end":26573.94,"text":"會有一些法律上"},{"start":26573.94,"end":26575.94,"text":"適用的問題"},{"start":26575.94,"end":26577.94,"text":"所以中央疾管得排除或調整"},{"start":26577.94,"end":26579.94,"text":"部分法規的限制"},{"start":26579.94,"end":26581.94,"text":"所以剛剛中央疾管講了我們通通都在"},{"start":26581.94,"end":26583.94,"text":"我們的第三項裡面"},{"start":26583.94,"end":26585.94,"text":"而且我們也除了這個"},{"start":26585.94,"end":26587.94,"text":"排除之外呢"},{"start":26587.94,"end":26589.94,"text":"法規裡面還特別寫到"},{"start":26589.94,"end":26591.94,"text":"有關於飛行操作安全性能的"},{"start":26591.94,"end":26593.94,"text":"回饋的一個機制"},{"start":26593.94,"end":26595.94,"text":"那作為日後法規的修正"},{"start":26595.94,"end":26597.94,"text":"或者是真正推動的一個參考"},{"start":26601.33,"end":26603.33,"text":"好"},{"start":26603.33,"end":26605.33,"text":"因為看起來就是"},{"start":26605.33,"end":26607.33,"text":"但是保安有沒有救你的"},{"start":26607.59,"end":26609.59,"text":"OK好了"},{"start":26609.05,"end":26611.05,"text":"我還是希望部長能夠表個態啦"},{"start":26611.05,"end":26613.05,"text":"這個這一條"},{"start":26613.05,"end":26615.05,"text":"什麼場域之類的"},{"start":26615.57,"end":26617.57,"text":"剛才美國部長中央病院"},{"start":26617.57,"end":26619.57,"text":"自己的血量落到一地"},{"start":26619.57,"end":26621.57,"text":"你比較一下跟民眾黨沒有差很多"},{"start":26621.57,"end":26623.57,"text":"所以我覺得"},{"start":26625.57,"end":26627.57,"text":"我覺得每一個法案"},{"start":26627.57,"end":26629.57,"text":"因為我們都尊重每一個委員的提案"},{"start":26629.57,"end":26631.57,"text":"不管你喜不喜歡"},{"start":26631.57,"end":26633.57,"text":"尊重"},{"start":26633.57,"end":26635.57,"text":"然後提出來的話應該首先問一下"},{"start":26635.57,"end":26637.57,"text":"行政部門的意見"},{"start":26637.57,"end":26639.57,"text":"畢竟他大關嘛"},{"start":26639.57,"end":26641.57,"text":"我們先問一下可不可以"},{"start":26641.57,"end":26643.57,"text":"部長要不要針對這一條"},{"start":26643.57,"end":26645.57,"text":"有關於倡議的問題"},{"start":26645.57,"end":26647.57,"text":"有關於國民黨團、民眾黨團"},{"start":26647.57,"end":26649.57,"text":"還有其他委員的意見"},{"start":26649.57,"end":26651.57,"text":"那麼你到底你的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":26651.57,"end":26653.57,"text":"不要列你表示一些意見嗎"},{"start":26655.31,"end":26657.31,"text":"那"},{"start":26656.93,"end":26658.93,"text":"部長你要回答嗎"},{"start":26660.39,"end":26662.39,"text":"部長您回答之前"},{"start":26662.39,"end":26664.39,"text":"他剛剛有"},{"start":26664.39,"end":26666.39,"text":"他前面有回答"},{"start":26667.95,"end":26669.95,"text":"讓我收回來"},{"start":26669.95,"end":26671.95,"text":"我只是講"},{"start":26671.95,"end":26673.95,"text":"比較一下"},{"start":26673.95,"end":26675.95,"text":"你們現在中委一直罵民眾黨團"},{"start":26675.95,"end":26677.95,"text":"你要看一下你們兩個人的提案"},{"start":26677.95,"end":26679.95,"text":"我看我老半天"},{"start":26679.95,"end":26681.95,"text":"老實講沒有差很多"},{"start":26682.22,"end":26684.22,"text":"我請教一下"},{"start":26684.22,"end":26686.22,"text":"我請問一下"},{"start":26686.22,"end":26688.22,"text":"我還是要請教一下顧部長"},{"start":26688.22,"end":26690.22,"text":"國民黨團的提案寫了這個"},{"start":26690.22,"end":26692.22,"text":"要規劃至少"},{"start":26692.22,"end":26694.22,"text":"三處軍民共用"},{"start":26694.22,"end":26696.22,"text":"測試場域"},{"start":26696.22,"end":26698.22,"text":"供軍方及民間"},{"start":26698.22,"end":26700.22,"text":"業者共同使用"},{"start":26701.5,"end":26703.5,"text":"請問那什麼叫軍民共用"},{"start":26703.5,"end":26705.5,"text":"是軍為主、民為輔"},{"start":26705.5,"end":26707.5,"text":"還是民為主、軍為輔"},{"start":26707.5,"end":26709.5,"text":"然後這個測試場域"},{"start":26709.5,"end":26711.5,"text":"還要進行無人載具的"},{"start":26711.5,"end":26713.5,"text":"飛控、航空"},{"start":26713.5,"end":26715.5,"text":"抗干擾跟"},{"start":26715.5,"end":26717.5,"text":"作戰模擬測試"},{"start":26719.38,"end":26721.38,"text":"就國防安全來講"},{"start":26721.38,"end":26723.38,"text":"作戰模擬測試可以在"},{"start":26723.38,"end":26725.38,"text":"民間業者的前面"},{"start":26725.38,"end":26727.38,"text":"去做作戰模擬測試嗎"},{"start":26729.85,"end":26733.85,"text":"那特別寫作戰模擬測試的用意是什麼"},{"start":26734.25,"end":26736.25,"text":"把它明定在你們的法條裡頭"},{"start":26736.25,"end":26738.25,"text":"又要規劃三處的測試場"},{"start":26738.25,"end":26740.25,"text":"然後又把測試的內容"},{"start":26742.64,"end":26744.64,"text":"跟對象都要把它寫出來"},{"start":26746.62,"end":26748.62,"text":"為的是什麼"},{"start":26748.62,"end":26750.62,"text":"是要讓誰知道"},{"start":26749.94,"end":26751.94,"text":"是要讓誰看"},{"start":26751.94,"end":26753.94,"text":"是要洩漏什麼樣的國家機密"},{"start":26753.94,"end":26755.94,"text":"或者是欠著這個機會"},{"start":26755.94,"end":26757.94,"text":"直接把國防安全"},{"start":26757.94,"end":26759.94,"text":"直接洩漏"},{"start":26760.05,"end":26762.05,"text":"寫這個法條的用意是什麼"},{"start":26762.05,"end":26764.05,"text":"其實這個來問國防部長沒道理"},{"start":26764.05,"end":26766.05,"text":"因為這法條不是他寫的"},{"start":26766.05,"end":26768.05,"text":"但是我問國民黨黨團"},{"start":26768.05,"end":26770.05,"text":"也問不出一個所以然來"},{"start":26770.05,"end":26772.05,"text":"因為你們這個法條也不知道從哪裡來的"},{"start":26772.39,"end":26774.39,"text":"到底是不是你們自己寫的"},{"start":26774.39,"end":26776.39,"text":"不知道會不會是有人"},{"start":26776.39,"end":26778.39,"text":"交給你們的我覺得這是大有可能"},{"start":26778.39,"end":26780.39,"text":"那有人交給你們"},{"start":26780.39,"end":26782.39,"text":"是誰交給你們"},{"start":26783.15,"end":26785.15,"text":"從哪裡來的"},{"start":26785.15,"end":26787.15,"text":"為什麼寫這樣的法條內容"},{"start":26787.15,"end":26789.15,"text":"這個大家就要好好的去探究一下了"},{"start":26790.92,"end":26794.92,"text":"特別把作戰模擬測試都寫進去"},{"start":26796.3,"end":26798.3,"text":"這個大有文章啊"},{"start":26798.85,"end":26800.85,"text":"國民黨如果你願意說明的話"},{"start":26800.85,"end":26802.85,"text":"我們其實很想聽聽你的說明"},{"start":26808.28,"end":26810.28,"text":"好"},{"start":26809.82,"end":26811.82,"text":"請說明啊"},{"start":26811.74,"end":26813.74,"text":"作戰模擬測試沒有辦法說明嗎"},{"start":26813.74,"end":26815.74,"text":"為什麼把他寫進法條裡頭"},{"start":26815.74,"end":26817.74,"text":"不然這個法條文字內容"},{"start":26817.74,"end":26819.74,"text":"從哪裡來的也可以說明一下吧"},{"start":26819.74,"end":26821.74,"text":"你們哪一個法案助理寫的"},{"start":26821.74,"end":26823.74,"text":"還是這個是傅崑錡委員交給你們的"},{"start":26823.74,"end":26825.74,"text":"傅崑錡委員從哪裡拿來的這個文字內容"},{"start":26825.74,"end":26827.74,"text":"是不是有特定人士"},{"start":26831.43,"end":26833.43,"text":"交代特定人士交給你們的"},{"start":26833.43,"end":26835.43,"text":"請說明啊"},{"start":26835.63,"end":26837.63,"text":"能不能說明"},{"start":26837.63,"end":26839.63,"text":"來叫審查法案是沒有意思的"},{"start":26839.63,"end":26841.63,"text":"請你看一下王定宇委員的提案"},{"start":26842.77,"end":26847.77,"text":"積極化設指定無人載具專屬的秘密學育空域"},{"start":26847.77,"end":26849.77,"text":"實證測試成立"},{"start":26849.77,"end":26851.77,"text":"建設通訊導航"},{"start":26851.77,"end":26853.77,"text":"他是誰寫的啊"},{"start":26853.77,"end":26855.77,"text":"是不是老公叫他寫的啊"},{"start":26855.82,"end":26857.82,"text":"我的降刑就沒有意義啦"},{"start":26857.82,"end":26859.82,"text":"這樣罵就沒有意義"},{"start":26859.82,"end":26861.82,"text":"來行政部門來"},{"start":26861.82,"end":26863.82,"text":"你直接跳進來啦"},{"start":26863.82,"end":26865.82,"text":"我沒有說老公叫你寫的喔"},{"start":26865.82,"end":26867.82,"text":"直接就說是老公叫你寫的喔"},{"start":26867.82,"end":26869.82,"text":"原來這個法條也是老公叫你們寫的"},{"start":26869.82,"end":26871.82,"text":"感謝你寫答案"},{"start":26871.82,"end":26873.82,"text":"老公叫你寫的"},{"start":26873.82,"end":26875.82,"text":"老公今天叫求你寫的"},{"start":26875.82,"end":26877.82,"text":"你寫答案了我的一號"},{"start":26877.82,"end":26879.82,"text":"法條是老公交給你們的"},{"start":26879.82,"end":26881.82,"text":"沒有意思啦"},{"start":26881.82,"end":26883.82,"text":"這是中國共產黨交給你們的"},{"start":26883.82,"end":26885.82,"text":"原來這就是老公交給你們的"},{"start":26885.82,"end":26887.82,"text":"所以你們坐在牢裡面"},{"start":26887.82,"end":26889.82,"text":"我寫錯了"},{"start":26889.82,"end":26891.82,"text":"我覺得是需要影響啦"},{"start":26893.72,"end":26895.72,"text":"不該影響"},{"start":26895.42,"end":26897.42,"text":"法條要針對行政部門"},{"start":26897.42,"end":26899.42,"text":"怎麼會針對立委提示攻擊"},{"start":26899.42,"end":26901.42,"text":"這沒有意思啊"},{"start":26901.42,"end":26903.42,"text":"今天是朝野寫的"},{"start":26903.42,"end":26905.42,"text":"今天不是蘇明啊"},{"start":26905.42,"end":26907.42,"text":"這是你們寫的我才跟你們提出詢問啊"},{"start":26907.42,"end":26909.42,"text":"我也不知道是誰寫的"},{"start":26909.42,"end":26911.42,"text":"所以你們叫法條是哪裡來的嗎"},{"start":26911.42,"end":26913.42,"text":"你們會寫作戰模擬嗎"},{"start":26913.42,"end":26915.42,"text":"請維持自信"},{"start":26915.42,"end":26917.42,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":26917.42,"end":26919.42,"text":"法條針對國民黨黨團第六條"},{"start":26919.42,"end":26921.42,"text":"台灣民進黨黨團"},{"start":26921.42,"end":26923.42,"text":"提案的第七條"},{"start":26923.42,"end":26925.42,"text":"委員賴氏堡提案第十四條"},{"start":26925.42,"end":26927.42,"text":"中央辯提案第十二條"},{"start":26927.42,"end":26929.42,"text":"王定宇提案第十一條"},{"start":26929.42,"end":26931.42,"text":"我們全部又沒有共識"},{"start":26931.42,"end":26933.42,"text":"我們予以保留"},{"start":26936.36,"end":26938.36,"text":"接下來"},{"start":26938.36,"end":26940.36,"text":"好"},{"start":26940.36,"end":26942.36,"text":"接下來我們進行"},{"start":26942.36,"end":26944.36,"text":"請你不要就直接跳過好不好"},{"start":26944.36,"end":26946.36,"text":"這是關乎國家安全"},{"start":26946.36,"end":26948.36,"text":"這是關乎國家安全非常重要的"},{"start":26948.36,"end":26950.36,"text":"我們進行第20"},{"start":26950.36,"end":26952.36,"text":"關乎國家安全非常重要的議題"},{"start":26952.36,"end":26954.36,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":26955.31,"end":26957.31,"text":"接下來我們看第20頁"},{"start":26957.31,"end":26959.31,"text":"進行國民黨黨團提案第七條"},{"start":26963.19,"end":26965.19,"text":"請經濟部跟國安部"},{"start":26965.19,"end":26967.19,"text":"就國產化這一條的比例"},{"start":26967.19,"end":26969.19,"text":"一見謝謝"},{"start":26974.38,"end":26976.38,"text":"好跟聯席會議報告"},{"start":26976.38,"end":26978.38,"text":"那這個"},{"start":26979,"end":26981,"text":"這一條經濟部的意見"},{"start":26981,"end":26983,"text":"我們認為無人機的種類"},{"start":26983,"end":26985,"text":"相當多元"},{"start":26985,"end":26987,"text":"各型載具的國產化比例"},{"start":26987,"end":26989,"text":"各有不同"},{"start":26989,"end":26991,"text":"而且國產化的條件"},{"start":26991,"end":26993,"text":"還涉及到技術的"},{"start":26993,"end":26995,"text":"疊帶的速度還有"},{"start":26995,"end":26997,"text":"市場等不確定的因素"},{"start":26997,"end":26999,"text":"如果以同一的標準"},{"start":26999,"end":27001,"text":"用明定的比例方式"},{"start":27001,"end":27003,"text":"來立法恐怕會有"},{"start":27003,"end":27005,"text":"執行上的難度"},{"start":27004.62,"end":27006.62,"text":"規劃過延"},{"start":27006.62,"end":27008.62,"text":"也會造成後續採購的困難"},{"start":27008.62,"end":27010.62,"text":"的這個問題"},{"start":27009.84,"end":27013.84,"text":"並缺乏按照實際情形彈性調整的空間"},{"start":27013.84,"end":27015.84,"text":"故建議不需要立法規範"},{"start":27015.84,"end":27017.84,"text":"以上"},{"start":27018.95,"end":27020.95,"text":"來國安部謝謝"},{"start":27024.01,"end":27026.01,"text":"主席各位我想剛剛"},{"start":27026.01,"end":27028.01,"text":"經濟部也說明了現在"},{"start":27028.01,"end":27030.01,"text":"第七條講的軍用無人載具的範圍特別廣"},{"start":27030.01,"end":27032.01,"text":"我就以MQ9V為例好了"},{"start":27032.01,"end":27034.01,"text":"我們對外對媒採購"},{"start":27034.01,"end":27036.01,"text":"MQ9V如果按照您"},{"start":27036.01,"end":27038.01,"text":"這樣子的規範說"},{"start":27038.01,"end":27040.01,"text":"MQ9V的"},{"start":27040.01,"end":27042.01,"text":"這些無人機有一定"},{"start":27042.01,"end":27044.01,"text":"的這個國產化的比例要"},{"start":27044.01,"end":27046.01,"text":"多少我不曉得"},{"start":27047.69,"end":27049.69,"text":"我們有時間的可能性嗎"},{"start":27049.69,"end":27051.69,"text":"那我不太清楚在這裡講的所謂的"},{"start":27053.27,"end":27055.27,"text":"嗯"},{"start":27054.42,"end":27058.42,"text":"在第一款跟第二款又提到所謂的軍用商規"},{"start":27058.42,"end":27060.42,"text":"我想這個概念上面來講"},{"start":27060.42,"end":27064.42,"text":"應該已經沒有所謂的軍用商規這個概念了"},{"start":27064.42,"end":27066.42,"text":"我們要買的就是軍規"},{"start":27067.48,"end":27069.48,"text":"我不太清楚這裡所講的軍用商規"},{"start":27069.48,"end":27071.48,"text":"所指的含義是什麼"},{"start":27071.48,"end":27073.48,"text":"也許過往"},{"start":27073.48,"end":27075.48,"text":"是拿過往說我們曾經"},{"start":27075.48,"end":27077.48,"text":"曾經以軍用商規為例"},{"start":27077.48,"end":27079.48,"text":"但是現在以無人載具的"},{"start":27079.48,"end":27081.48,"text":"這個應用上來講"},{"start":27081.48,"end":27083.48,"text":"我想"},{"start":27084.84,"end":27086.84,"text":"沒有什麼軍用商規"},{"start":27086.84,"end":27088.84,"text":"就我們做戰需求來講"},{"start":27088.84,"end":27090.84,"text":"我們所有的"},{"start":27090.84,"end":27092.84,"text":"無人載具的需求都是以我們"},{"start":27092.84,"end":27094.84,"text":"認為符合做戰需求的軍規"},{"start":27094.84,"end":27096.84,"text":"做處罰"},{"start":27102.36,"end":27104.36,"text":"好"},{"start":27106.12,"end":27108.12,"text":"都沒有意見"},{"start":27108.12,"end":27110.12,"text":"真開心"},{"start":27109.97,"end":27111.97,"text":"好"},{"start":27110.97,"end":27112.97,"text":"我個人看法"},{"start":27112.97,"end":27114.97,"text":"我代表主席看法"},{"start":27114.97,"end":27116.97,"text":"我是覺得說因為國防部"},{"start":27116.97,"end":27118.97,"text":"當時都是在一開始"},{"start":27118.97,"end":27120.97,"text":"審這個就是說我們希望是"},{"start":27120.97,"end":27122.97,"text":"國產化的比例"},{"start":27122.97,"end":27124.97,"text":"經濟部的話也是一樣"},{"start":27124.97,"end":27126.97,"text":"我們很多都在支持"},{"start":27126.97,"end":27128.97,"text":"就是說就這個法條"},{"start":27128.97,"end":27130.97,"text":"法案的話就是說"},{"start":27130.97,"end":27132.97,"text":"假設這樣子的一個"},{"start":27132.97,"end":27134.97,"text":"領主建化國產化的比例"},{"start":27134.97,"end":27136.97,"text":"就是到底我相信"},{"start":27136.97,"end":27138.97,"text":"因為我不是國民黨團的提案者"},{"start":27138.97,"end":27140.97,"text":"我相信他們對於國防部"},{"start":27140.97,"end":27142.97,"text":"在國防自主這一塊"},{"start":27142.97,"end":27144.97,"text":"可能需要你跟經濟部配合"},{"start":27144.97,"end":27146.97,"text":"真的確實盤點"},{"start":27146.97,"end":27148.97,"text":"因為過去我們看到很多國產化的比例"},{"start":27148.97,"end":27150.97,"text":"是更高的"},{"start":27150.97,"end":27152.97,"text":"跟主席報告一下"},{"start":27152.97,"end":27154.97,"text":"因為這個是國民黨黨團的提案"},{"start":27154.97,"end":27156.97,"text":"國民黨黨團在一開始"},{"start":27156.97,"end":27158.97,"text":"定義"},{"start":27158.42,"end":27160.42,"text":"無人宰居的時候他是把所有的"},{"start":27160.42,"end":27162.42,"text":"無人宰居都包括進去"},{"start":27162.42,"end":27164.42,"text":"所以我們NQ9B也是"},{"start":27164.42,"end":27166.42,"text":"屬於他定義的無人宰居"},{"start":27166.42,"end":27170.42,"text":"我是順著國民黨的立法的邏輯往下"},{"start":27170.42,"end":27172.42,"text":"推演到這一條"},{"start":27172.42,"end":27174.42,"text":"來說明"},{"start":27174.42,"end":27176.42,"text":"經用無人宰居的採購"},{"start":27177.3,"end":27179.3,"text":"這個不是我們現在"},{"start":27179.3,"end":27181.3,"text":"國防部提出來的"},{"start":27181.3,"end":27183.3,"text":"那個堅爭"},{"start":27184.07,"end":27186.07,"text":"兵海堅爭型的無人機"},{"start":27186.07,"end":27188.07,"text":"兵海攻擊型的無人機跟"},{"start":27188.07,"end":27190.07,"text":"小型自殺無人機"},{"start":27190.07,"end":27192.07,"text":"這三款的範圍而已"},{"start":27192.07,"end":27194.07,"text":"再回溯回去看看國民黨的"},{"start":27194.07,"end":27196.07,"text":"對於無人宰居的定義"},{"start":27196.07,"end":27198.07,"text":"在他的名詞定義裡面"},{"start":27198.07,"end":27200.07,"text":"他是所有的無人宰居"},{"start":27200.07,"end":27202.07,"text":"所有的無人宰居"},{"start":27202.07,"end":27204.07,"text":"都要求"},{"start":27204.07,"end":27206.07,"text":"如果按照他的要求都要有一個國產化的比例的話"},{"start":27206.07,"end":27208.07,"text":"讓我們很多外購的項目"},{"start":27208.07,"end":27210.07,"text":"是不可能做到這個程度的"},{"start":27210.07,"end":27212.07,"text":"那"},{"start":27212.07,"end":27214.07,"text":"可能是透過軍購還是透過商購"},{"start":27214.07,"end":27216.07,"text":"所以我要講的"},{"start":27216.07,"end":27218.07,"text":"我的意思是"},{"start":27218.07,"end":27220.07,"text":"順著國民黨他立法的"},{"start":27220.07,"end":27222.07,"text":"意旨一直往下延伸"},{"start":27222.07,"end":27224.07,"text":"會產生非常嚴重的問題"},{"start":27224.07,"end":27226.07,"text":"我只是特別舉這樣的例子做說明而已"},{"start":27226.88,"end":27228.88,"text":"稍等一下我請教一下"},{"start":27229.48,"end":27231.48,"text":"那你這個軍"},{"start":27231.48,"end":27233.48,"text":"這個MQ9B是包括在軍用商規嗎"},{"start":27234.31,"end":27236.31,"text":"是包括在軍用商規嗎"},{"start":27239.52,"end":27241.52,"text":"這個就是我沒有辦法"},{"start":27241.52,"end":27243.52,"text":"因為我不是立法的"},{"start":27243.52,"end":27245.52,"text":"是我嘛對不對"},{"start":27245.52,"end":27247.52,"text":"可是他的頭是冠軍用無人宰居"},{"start":27247.52,"end":27249.52,"text":"軍用商規有沒有包括MQ9B"},{"start":27249.52,"end":27251.52,"text":"那我現在的問題"},{"start":27251.52,"end":27253.52,"text":"就是在於說"},{"start":27253.52,"end":27255.52,"text":"那要請國民黨"},{"start":27255.52,"end":27257.52,"text":"來幫我解釋一下"},{"start":27257.52,"end":27259.52,"text":"什麼叫做軍用商規"},{"start":27263.8,"end":27265.8,"text":"因為我們知道MQ9B"},{"start":27265.8,"end":27267.8,"text":"是FMS喔"},{"start":27267.8,"end":27269.8,"text":"他不是DCS喔"},{"start":27269.8,"end":27271.8,"text":"不是啦"},{"start":27271.8,"end":27273.8,"text":"國民黨黨團的版本"},{"start":27273.8,"end":27275.8,"text":"並沒有在界定是"},{"start":27275.8,"end":27277.8,"text":"軍售的"},{"start":27277.8,"end":27279.8,"text":"國內採購的"},{"start":27279.8,"end":27281.8,"text":"因為現在這個講是商售"},{"start":27281.8,"end":27283.8,"text":"不是軍購喔"},{"start":27283.8,"end":27285.8,"text":"所以這邊講是軍售"},{"start":27285.8,"end":27287.8,"text":"那請問一下國民黨團"},{"start":27287.8,"end":27289.8,"text":"我想我們不是在"},{"start":27289.8,"end":27291.8,"text":"我現在請教一下"},{"start":27291.8,"end":27293.8,"text":"國民黨團的哪一個版本"},{"start":27293.8,"end":27295.8,"text":"再對應到第七條"},{"start":27295.8,"end":27297.8,"text":"在談軍用商規這個字"},{"start":27299.93,"end":27301.93,"text":"是不是指國內採購"},{"start":27303.09,"end":27305.09,"text":"在哪裡可以看得出來"},{"start":27312.52,"end":27314.52,"text":"而且標的"},{"start":27314.52,"end":27316.52,"text":"國民黨你這裡有一個矛盾的地方"},{"start":27316.52,"end":27318.52,"text":"你早上才講"},{"start":27318.52,"end":27320.52,"text":"你要的偵查用的"},{"start":27320.52,"end":27322.52,"text":"這個無人機"},{"start":27322.52,"end":27324.52,"text":"自殺式的無人機"},{"start":27324.52,"end":27326.52,"text":"以及無人體"},{"start":27326.52,"end":27328.52,"text":"基本上是對國內採購"},{"start":27328.52,"end":27330.52,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":27330.52,"end":27332.52,"text":"沒有MQ9B的問題"},{"start":27332.52,"end":27334.52,"text":"對呀"},{"start":27334.52,"end":27336.52,"text":"我的標的沒有含MQ9B"},{"start":27336.52,"end":27338.52,"text":"但貴黨的"},{"start":27338.52,"end":27340.52,"text":"版本裡面"},{"start":27340.52,"end":27342.52,"text":"排除哪些無人載具"},{"start":27343.64,"end":27345.64,"text":"就是貴黨的版本"},{"start":27345.64,"end":27347.64,"text":"如果大家再回去看"},{"start":27347.64,"end":27349.64,"text":"貴黨的無人載具的定義"},{"start":27349.64,"end":27351.64,"text":"在名詞定義是包含"},{"start":27351.64,"end":27353.64,"text":"懸翼型、定翼型、垂直起降型等無人機"},{"start":27353.64,"end":27355.64,"text":"包含水面、水下無人機"},{"start":27355.64,"end":27357.64,"text":"是無人體"},{"start":27357.64,"end":27359.64,"text":"包含增收型、後傾型"},{"start":27359.64,"end":27361.64,"text":"以及作戰型的"},{"start":27361.64,"end":27363.64,"text":"地面無人載具"},{"start":27363.64,"end":27365.64,"text":"其操作或飛航不需人員"},{"start":27365.64,"end":27367.64,"text":"承載於機具本體"},{"start":27367.64,"end":27369.64,"text":"所以它包括天上飛的"},{"start":27369.75,"end":27371.75,"text":"水上航行的"},{"start":27371.75,"end":27373.75,"text":"水下的"},{"start":27373.19,"end":27375.19,"text":"乃至於地面的"},{"start":27375.19,"end":27377.19,"text":"都含在你們的無人載具範圍內"},{"start":27377.19,"end":27379.19,"text":"很好啊"},{"start":27379.19,"end":27381.19,"text":"報告很廣啊"},{"start":27381.19,"end":27383.19,"text":"沒有,我只要跟你強調一個"},{"start":27383.19,"end":27385.19,"text":"軍用商規"},{"start":27385.19,"end":27387.19,"text":"雇雲失意,它是DCS嘛"},{"start":27387.19,"end":27389.19,"text":"它不是FMS嘛"},{"start":27389.19,"end":27391.19,"text":"那你MQ9B是FMS啊"},{"start":27391.19,"end":27393.19,"text":"這個東西大家都很清楚啊"},{"start":27393.19,"end":27395.19,"text":"怎麼不是呢"},{"start":27395.19,"end":27397.19,"text":"這是comment to comment"},{"start":27397.19,"end":27399.19,"text":"我沒有"},{"start":27399.19,"end":27401.19,"text":"那可能要麻煩公務大委員"},{"start":27401.19,"end":27403.19,"text":"在電影裡面把軍用商規稍微定義一下"},{"start":27407.58,"end":27409.58,"text":"好"},{"start":27408.32,"end":27410.32,"text":"字幕製作人員"},{"start":27411.49,"end":27413.49,"text":"其他的版本"},{"start":27414.53,"end":27416.53,"text":"沒有版本"},{"start":27416.51,"end":27418.51,"text":"好吧,現在就當留"},{"start":27419.56,"end":27421.56,"text":"接下來的話"},{"start":27421.56,"end":27423.56,"text":"我們進到第21頁"},{"start":27423.56,"end":27425.56,"text":"主要合併討論國民黨團"},{"start":27425.56,"end":27427.56,"text":"提案第8條"},{"start":27427.56,"end":27429.56,"text":"中央邊緯提案第14條"},{"start":27429.56,"end":27431.56,"text":"黃定野提案第13條"},{"start":27432.2,"end":27434.2,"text":"這是在"},{"start":27434.49,"end":27436.49,"text":"講補助跟研發交易補助"},{"start":27438.68,"end":27440.68,"text":"那差別看起來就是中央邊是委員會"},{"start":27440.68,"end":27442.68,"text":"其他的的話應該都是主管機關"},{"start":27445.5,"end":27447.5,"text":"來,請進進步"},{"start":27454.66,"end":27456.66,"text":"好,報告各位委員"},{"start":27456.66,"end":27458.66,"text":"那這一條最主要"},{"start":27458.66,"end":27460.66,"text":"是講到相關無人機的一些"},{"start":27460.66,"end":27462.66,"text":"輔導的這個機制"},{"start":27462.66,"end":27464.66,"text":"那我們目前這個"},{"start":27464.66,"end":27466.66,"text":"對無人載具的這個業者"},{"start":27466.66,"end":27468.66,"text":"已經可以依照這個"},{"start":27468.66,"end":27470.66,"text":"這個產創條例"},{"start":27470.66,"end":27472.66,"text":"這個包括第9條"},{"start":27472.66,"end":27474.66,"text":"有研發補助"},{"start":27474.66,"end":27476.66,"text":"第10條也有研發投資抵減"},{"start":27476.66,"end":27478.66,"text":"第10條之一也有"},{"start":27478.66,"end":27480.66,"text":"針對智慧機械"},{"start":27480.66,"end":27482.66,"text":"AI"},{"start":27481.69,"end":27483.69,"text":"等設備的這個投資抵減"},{"start":27483.69,"end":27485.69,"text":"還有第30條"},{"start":27485.69,"end":27487.69,"text":"國發機也可以做"},{"start":27487.69,"end":27489.69,"text":"一些投資"},{"start":27489.69,"end":27491.69,"text":"那另外相關人才培訓市場"},{"start":27491.69,"end":27493.69,"text":"測試證證以及供應鏈"},{"start":27493.69,"end":27495.69,"text":"整合的這些事項"},{"start":27495.69,"end":27497.69,"text":"都已經納入無人載具產業"},{"start":27497.69,"end":27499.69,"text":"發展統籌型的這個計畫"},{"start":27499.69,"end":27501.69,"text":"以及現行產業輔導的機制"},{"start":27501.69,"end":27503.69,"text":"來推動,那實務長已經可以"},{"start":27503.69,"end":27505.69,"text":"提供業者所需要的這個協助"},{"start":27505.69,"end":27507.69,"text":"那另外工程會也已經有訂定"},{"start":27507.69,"end":27509.69,"text":"遙控無人機採購"},{"start":27509.69,"end":27511.69,"text":"那另外這個指引,以分級的方式"},{"start":27511.69,"end":27513.69,"text":"將非宏級國產化民主建"},{"start":27513.69,"end":27515.69,"text":"納入採購的一個要求"},{"start":27515.69,"end":27517.69,"text":"可實質鼓勵國產化優良的業者"},{"start":27517.69,"end":27519.69,"text":"建立物需要"},{"start":27519.69,"end":27521.69,"text":"另外的立法規範"},{"start":27521.69,"end":27523.69,"text":"以上"},{"start":27528.1,"end":27530.1,"text":"阿光,對不起"},{"start":27529.72,"end":27531.72,"text":"我稍微再說明一下"},{"start":27531.72,"end":27533.72,"text":"剛剛有提到軍用商規"},{"start":27533.72,"end":27535.72,"text":"那我當然再看了一下國民黨黨團"},{"start":27535.72,"end":27537.72,"text":"它的第三條,確實有提到軍用商規"},{"start":27537.72,"end":27539.72,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":27539.72,"end":27541.72,"text":"是指以商用規格之零組件為基礎"},{"start":27541.72,"end":27543.72,"text":"依軍事需求進行適應性改良"},{"start":27543.72,"end":27545.72,"text":"並符合一定抗干擾"},{"start":27545.72,"end":27547.72,"text":"抗電池、脈衝"},{"start":27547.72,"end":27549.72,"text":"及戰場存活力"},{"start":27549.72,"end":27551.72,"text":"標準的無人載具"},{"start":27551.72,"end":27553.72,"text":"那我這邊只要說明一下,就是說"},{"start":27553.72,"end":27555.72,"text":"軍用商規的無人載具"},{"start":27555.72,"end":27557.72,"text":"在這裡所定義的,還是要以"},{"start":27557.72,"end":27559.72,"text":"軍事需求來作為一個基礎的話"},{"start":27559.72,"end":27561.72,"text":"如果是這樣子講"},{"start":27561.72,"end":27563.72,"text":"那麼有關於所謂"},{"start":27563.72,"end":27565.72,"text":"符合一定抗干擾"},{"start":27565.72,"end":27567.72,"text":"抗電池、脈衝及戰場存活率"},{"start":27567.72,"end":27569.72,"text":"標準的無人載具"},{"start":27569.72,"end":27571.72,"text":"在我們來看"},{"start":27571.72,"end":27573.72,"text":"我們都還是要以我們的作戰需求"},{"start":27573.72,"end":27575.72,"text":"採取我們認為適合"},{"start":27575.72,"end":27577.72,"text":"我們作戰需求的軍規"},{"start":27577.72,"end":27579.72,"text":"所以有關相關於所謂的商用規格"},{"start":27579.72,"end":27581.72,"text":"之零組件"},{"start":27581.72,"end":27583.72,"text":"我想"},{"start":27582.98,"end":27584.98,"text":"沒有辦法能夠充分的理解"},{"start":27584.98,"end":27586.98,"text":"什麼叫做以商用規格之零組件"},{"start":27586.98,"end":27588.98,"text":"為基礎"},{"start":27588.98,"end":27590.98,"text":"因為所有的"},{"start":27590.98,"end":27592.98,"text":"我們所軍規所需要的"},{"start":27592.98,"end":27594.98,"text":"這些無人載具"},{"start":27594.98,"end":27596.98,"text":"我們都還是希望符合我們的軍規"},{"start":27596.98,"end":27598.98,"text":"那以後我們"},{"start":27598.98,"end":27600.98,"text":"依照我們的軍事需求"},{"start":27600.98,"end":27602.98,"text":"我們也採購相關的這些無人載具"},{"start":27602.98,"end":27604.98,"text":"所以還是回到剛剛講的"},{"start":27604.98,"end":27606.98,"text":"那個所謂的本條例"},{"start":27606.98,"end":27608.98,"text":"事情後多久之內"},{"start":27608.98,"end":27610.98,"text":"軍用商規的無人機的國產化"},{"start":27610.98,"end":27612.98,"text":"比例是多少的這件事情"},{"start":27612.98,"end":27614.98,"text":"我們在國防部的立場上面"},{"start":27614.98,"end":27616.98,"text":"我們沒有辦法確切的能夠"},{"start":27616.98,"end":27618.98,"text":"充分的去理解"},{"start":27618.98,"end":27620.98,"text":"這樣子的一個特定的"},{"start":27620.98,"end":27622.98,"text":"一個所謂的軍用商規無人載具"},{"start":27622.98,"end":27624.98,"text":"在他的定義之下"},{"start":27624.98,"end":27626.98,"text":"所能夠所謂的"},{"start":27626.98,"end":27628.98,"text":"國產化的"},{"start":27628.98,"end":27630.98,"text":"這個比例"},{"start":27630.98,"end":27632.98,"text":"指的是不是一定是現以對國內"},{"start":27632.98,"end":27634.98,"text":"採購的這個部分"},{"start":27634.98,"end":27636.98,"text":"那如果說是現以國內"},{"start":27636.98,"end":27638.98,"text":"採購也就是說"},{"start":27638.98,"end":27640.98,"text":"符合我們現在國防自主採購"},{"start":27640.98,"end":27642.98,"text":"所要發展的這個項目的話"},{"start":27642.98,"end":27644.98,"text":"我可能要麻煩"},{"start":27644.98,"end":27646.98,"text":"國民黨的版本在軍用商規"},{"start":27646.98,"end":27648.98,"text":"無人機的這個部分"},{"start":27648.98,"end":27650.98,"text":"就是指為了記憶國防自主"},{"start":27650.98,"end":27652.98,"text":"採購而所發展的"},{"start":27652.98,"end":27654.98,"text":"這些所謂的無人機"},{"start":27654.98,"end":27656.98,"text":"但是合乎我們軍事需求 我想這樣可能會比較清楚一點"},{"start":27656.98,"end":27658.98,"text":"那另外剛剛講的"},{"start":27658.98,"end":27660.98,"text":"獎勵補助的這些相關的規範"},{"start":27660.98,"end":27662.98,"text":"應該不是在我們"},{"start":27662.98,"end":27664.98,"text":"這個國防部所應該"},{"start":27664.98,"end":27666.98,"text":"要的一個權責範圍"},{"start":27666.98,"end":27668.98,"text":"那這個部分以上"},{"start":27669.72,"end":27671.72,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":27674.49,"end":27676.49,"text":"我還是想要請教一下"},{"start":27676.49,"end":27678.49,"text":"因為這個是國民黨黨團的提案"},{"start":27678.49,"end":27680.49,"text":"我還是想要具體請教一下"},{"start":27680.49,"end":27682.49,"text":"第八條整個條文"},{"start":27682.49,"end":27684.49,"text":"念完"},{"start":27684.14,"end":27686.14,"text":"我想請教你們補助的對象會是綠油油嗎?"},{"start":27689.54,"end":27691.54,"text":"你直接寫補助業者"},{"start":27691.54,"end":27693.54,"text":"還有資金投入"},{"start":27693.54,"end":27695.54,"text":"還有授權 還有優先採購"},{"start":27695.54,"end":27697.54,"text":"然後提供融資及優惠利率"},{"start":27697.54,"end":27699.54,"text":"所以這些都做完之後"},{"start":27699.54,"end":27701.54,"text":"這個業者是不是就是綠油油?"},{"start":27702.79,"end":27704.79,"text":"請教一下"},{"start":27704.17,"end":27706.17,"text":"你覺得他"},{"start":27706.17,"end":27708.17,"text":"你喜歡的時候就說他是這個優良業者"},{"start":27708.17,"end":27710.17,"text":"你不喜歡他的時候"},{"start":27710.17,"end":27712.17,"text":"你就說他是綠油油"},{"start":27712.17,"end":27714.17,"text":"然後就說是經濟部 毒後他"},{"start":27714.17,"end":27716.17,"text":"還優先採購他"},{"start":27716.17,"end":27718.17,"text":"還資金幫助他"},{"start":27718.17,"end":27720.17,"text":"還授權 還補助他"},{"start":27720.17,"end":27722.17,"text":"還優惠融資 什麼都來囉"},{"start":27722.17,"end":27724.17,"text":"那這是不是綠油油?"},{"start":27723.88,"end":27725.88,"text":"請教一下"},{"start":27727.11,"end":27729.11,"text":"這個不用回答"},{"start":27730.31,"end":27732.31,"text":"這很重要"},{"start":27732.31,"end":27734.31,"text":"因為我們要釐清被補助的業者"},{"start":27734.31,"end":27736.31,"text":"被你認定優良的補助業者"},{"start":27736.31,"end":27738.31,"text":"是不是每一個都是綠油油?"},{"start":27739.29,"end":27741.29,"text":"就說明書啊 這是你們寫的"},{"start":27741.29,"end":27743.29,"text":"你可以回應一下"},{"start":27742.6,"end":27744.6,"text":"不然叫副坤起來"},{"start":27744.6,"end":27746.6,"text":"這副坤起來"},{"start":27747.83,"end":27751.83,"text":"我們今天在審查這個條例"},{"start":27751.83,"end":27753.83,"text":"各個委員 各個黨派"},{"start":27753.83,"end":27755.83,"text":"依法去執行"},{"start":27755.83,"end":27759.83,"text":"提出大家的法案"},{"start":27759.83,"end":27761.83,"text":"今天行政部門坐在這裡"},{"start":27761.83,"end":27763.83,"text":"我們要討論的是"},{"start":27763.83,"end":27765.83,"text":"提出法案"},{"start":27765.83,"end":27767.83,"text":"在委員方面 在行政部門"},{"start":27767.83,"end":27769.83,"text":"要怎麼樣去溝通"},{"start":27769.83,"end":27771.83,"text":"能不能達成共識"},{"start":27771.83,"end":27773.83,"text":"尤其現在討論到"},{"start":27773.83,"end":27775.83,"text":"第八條"},{"start":27775.83,"end":27777.83,"text":"我相信所有的委員"},{"start":27777.83,"end":27779.83,"text":"一定都是全力的支持"},{"start":27779.83,"end":27781.83,"text":"投入無人載具"},{"start":27781.83,"end":27785.83,"text":"關鍵領主建國產化的優良業者"},{"start":27785.83,"end":27789.83,"text":"經濟部卓語講著"},{"start":27789.83,"end":27791.83,"text":"這個是我們每一次"},{"start":27791.83,"end":27793.83,"text":"在經濟委員會"},{"start":27793.83,"end":27797.83,"text":"大家都非常非常的要求"},{"start":27797.83,"end":27799.83,"text":"所以今天提出這個"},{"start":27799.83,"end":27801.83,"text":"應當是大家全力的來支持"},{"start":27801.83,"end":27803.83,"text":"我們的無人機"},{"start":27803.83,"end":27805.83,"text":"無人載具 零組件"},{"start":27805.83,"end":27807.83,"text":"讓我們國內的廠商"},{"start":27807.83,"end":27811.83,"text":"可以精進 可以升級"},{"start":27811.83,"end":27813.83,"text":"所以因此不管在捐助"},{"start":27813.83,"end":27815.83,"text":"或者是資金技術投資"},{"start":27815.83,"end":27817.83,"text":"或者是授權"},{"start":27817.83,"end":27819.83,"text":"或者是應該要優先採購國內"},{"start":27819.83,"end":27821.83,"text":"或者是要提供"},{"start":27821.83,"end":27823.83,"text":"融資的優惠利率"},{"start":27823.83,"end":27825.83,"text":"我相信"},{"start":27825.83,"end":27827.83,"text":"不管是在民進黨的委員的提案"},{"start":27827.83,"end":27829.83,"text":"大家的方向精神"},{"start":27829.83,"end":27831.83,"text":"都是如此"},{"start":27831.83,"end":27833.83,"text":"我們都要得到支持的"},{"start":27833.83,"end":27835.83,"text":"以上我的建議"},{"start":27835.83,"end":27837.83,"text":"請主席做裁決"},{"start":27838.23,"end":27840.23,"text":"好來 宗教評"},{"start":27839.98,"end":27840.98,"text":"委員"},{"start":27841.08,"end":27843.08,"text":"好 因為條次我的"},{"start":27843.08,"end":27845.08,"text":"版本的第14條"},{"start":27845.08,"end":27847.08,"text":"又跟國民黨的第8條放在一起"},{"start":27847.08,"end":27849.08,"text":"那我必須說明"},{"start":27849.08,"end":27851.08,"text":"上週的公聽會"},{"start":27851.08,"end":27853.08,"text":"真的學者專家"},{"start":27853.08,"end":27855.08,"text":"能夠有些積極性的"},{"start":27855.08,"end":27857.08,"text":"建設性方案提出"},{"start":27857.08,"end":27859.08,"text":"有提出說 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經濟不能回答"},{"start":28064.77,"end":28066.77,"text":"好奇怪"},{"start":28068.27,"end":28070.27,"text":"好報告委員"},{"start":28070.27,"end":28072.27,"text":"那這一條其實國際"},{"start":28072.27,"end":28074.27,"text":"已經有多項的一些"},{"start":28074.27,"end":28076.27,"text":"方案已經在支持"},{"start":28076.27,"end":28078.27,"text":"包括加強投資中小企業"},{"start":28078.27,"end":28080.27,"text":"實施方案加強投資策略性"},{"start":28080.27,"end":28082.27,"text":"服務業實施方案加強投資"},{"start":28082.27,"end":28084.27,"text":"策略性製造業實施方案"},{"start":28084.27,"end":28086.27,"text":"等跟民間的資金共同"},{"start":28086.27,"end":28088.27,"text":"投資中小級新創企業"},{"start":28088.27,"end":28090.27,"text":"的方案建立"},{"start":28090.27,"end":28092.27,"text":"不需要令立法規範"},{"start":28092.27,"end":28094.27,"text":"以上"},{"start":28093.75,"end":28095.75,"text":"國發基金"},{"start":28108.08,"end":28110.08,"text":"主席各位委員大家好"},{"start":28110.08,"end":28112.08,"text":"那國發基金這邊說明一下"},{"start":28112.08,"end":28114.08,"text":"因為國發基金本來就是依照產業創新條例"},{"start":28114.08,"end":28116.08,"text":"而設置的"},{"start":28116.08,"end":28118.08,"text":"所以國發基金的宗旨就是在協助產業的發展"},{"start":28118.08,"end":28120.08,"text":"那剛剛"},{"start":28120.08,"end":28122.08,"text":"經濟部次長也有報告過了"},{"start":28122.08,"end":28124.08,"text":"就是國發基金現在投資方案"},{"start":28125.41,"end":28127.41,"text":"包括直接投資還有跟部會"},{"start":28127.41,"end":28129.41,"text":"之間合作的白衣投資以及"},{"start":28129.41,"end":28131.41,"text":"創業天使投資方案"},{"start":28131.41,"end":28133.41,"text":"目前都可以投資"},{"start":28133.41,"end":28135.41,"text":"從事無人載具科技事業"},{"start":28136.12,"end":28138.12,"text":"而且經濟部這邊也有中小企業發展條例"},{"start":28138.12,"end":28140.12,"text":"本來就是在協助"},{"start":28140.12,"end":28142.12,"text":"中小企業跟新創企業的發展"},{"start":28142.12,"end":28144.12,"text":"所以建議"},{"start":28144.12,"end":28146.12,"text":"不需要令立法規範"},{"start":28146.12,"end":28148.12,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":28150.06,"end":28152.06,"text":"完"},{"start":28151.19,"end":28153.19,"text":"來 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各位你一定"},{"start":28296.55,"end":28298.55,"text":"一定要把他殺掉"},{"start":28298.06,"end":28300.06,"text":"這個不是因啦 是得啊"},{"start":28300.06,"end":28302.06,"text":"得你可以不要理他"},{"start":28302.06,"end":28304.06,"text":"得 但是一個宣示性的"},{"start":28304.06,"end":28306.06,"text":"所代表我們這個法"},{"start":28306.76,"end":28308.76,"text":"我們要重視中小企業"},{"start":28308.76,"end":28310.76,"text":"讓中小企業也有機會"},{"start":28310.76,"end":28312.76,"text":"參與我們的無人"},{"start":28312.76,"end":28314.76,"text":"宅具的相關產業的發展"},{"start":28314.76,"end":28316.76,"text":"就這麼一點點的"},{"start":28316.76,"end":28318.76,"text":"意思而已 然後你們要把他殺掉"},{"start":28318.76,"end":28320.76,"text":"實在是莫名其妙"},{"start":28321.21,"end":28323.21,"text":"莫名其妙很多啦 我在要跑邊"},{"start":28324.08,"end":28326.08,"text":"根本沒有必要啦 因為"},{"start":28326.71,"end":28328.71,"text":"國發經濟本來就是個機制的"},{"start":28328.71,"end":28330.71,"text":"不寫這一條中小企業傳產要加入"},{"start":28330.71,"end":28332.71,"text":"無人宅具是都可以的啦"},{"start":28332.71,"end":28334.71,"text":"其實我們看了後面"},{"start":28334.71,"end":28336.71,"text":"建議主席啊 後面國民黨團的提案"},{"start":28336.71,"end":28338.71,"text":"其實也沒有人可以來代表做說明"},{"start":28338.71,"end":28340.71,"text":"可以做回應了 那賴斯巴爾委員"},{"start":28340.71,"end":28342.71,"text":"放了自己AB版他也不講 那就專門"},{"start":28342.71,"end":28344.71,"text":"幫國民黨團講這個版本 我也有點失望"},{"start":28344.71,"end":28346.71,"text":"本來想跟他好好的對話他的AB版"},{"start":28346.71,"end":28348.71,"text":"因為畢竟我的版本跟他的B版"},{"start":28348.71,"end":28350.71,"text":"也有相容之處"},{"start":28350.71,"end":28352.71,"text":"所以建議主席啊 我看看"},{"start":28352.71,"end":28354.71,"text":"國民黨的提案是不是"},{"start":28354.71,"end":28356.71,"text":"問一下"},{"start":28355.82,"end":28357.82,"text":"他有沒有 他們國民黨團沒有說明的"},{"start":28357.82,"end":28359.82,"text":"不然的話我們就"},{"start":28359.82,"end":28361.82,"text":"符合召委的期待 我們速速進行"},{"start":28363.23,"end":28365.23,"text":"不要聯網喔"},{"start":28365.23,"end":28367.23,"text":"只要碰到我的條文我都幫我QD"},{"start":28367.23,"end":28369.23,"text":"不要這樣子亂聯網喔"},{"start":28369.23,"end":28371.23,"text":"只要碰到 但是我投石"},{"start":28371.23,"end":28373.23,"text":"我是國民黨團議員 當然要幫"},{"start":28373.23,"end":28375.23,"text":"國民黨團講話 這天經地義的啊"},{"start":28375.23,"end":28377.23,"text":"像你現在在幫民進黨團講話"},{"start":28377.23,"end":28379.23,"text":"一樣的意思啊"},{"start":28380.66,"end":28382.66,"text":"這個 大家這一條有爭議"},{"start":28382.66,"end":28384.66,"text":"我也覺得很奇怪"},{"start":28385,"end":28387,"text":"國發親親"},{"start":28387.21,"end":28391.21,"text":"我們政府來說明年有一千億要為小"},{"start":28391.21,"end":28393.21,"text":"為小型企業"},{"start":28394.34,"end":28396.34,"text":"然後新創條例大家新創"},{"start":28397.96,"end":28399.96,"text":"是 要大家說全力的支持"},{"start":28401.79,"end":28403.79,"text":"那有什麼理由來反對這個呢"},{"start":28404.76,"end":28406.76,"text":"他得 可以有"},{"start":28406.76,"end":28408.76,"text":"如果 我們經常會有"},{"start":28408.76,"end":28410.76,"text":"世界之光的一個產生啊"},{"start":28412.33,"end":28414.33,"text":"那為什麼這個還有爭議呢"},{"start":28414.7,"end":28416.7,"text":"那政府本來"},{"start":28416.7,"end":28418.7,"text":"跟民間本來做合作"},{"start":28418.7,"end":28420.7,"text":"全力的支持啊"},{"start":28420.7,"end":28422.7,"text":"這有什麼問題呢"},{"start":28422.63,"end":28424.63,"text":"所以主席 請做一決啦"},{"start":28424.63,"end":28426.63,"text":"好 或簡單一句啦 主席"},{"start":28427.32,"end":28429.32,"text":"第九條跟第八條最大的差別"},{"start":28429.32,"end":28431.32,"text":"有人法律不好就算了啦 中文也不好"},{"start":28431.6,"end":28433.6,"text":"第八條好歹有對投入無人宅具"},{"start":28433.6,"end":28435.6,"text":"啪啪啪啪"},{"start":28435.6,"end":28437.6,"text":"經濟部可以怎麼樣怎麼樣"},{"start":28437.6,"end":28439.6,"text":"這一條只有主持沒有受持"},{"start":28439.6,"end":28441.6,"text":"那不住誰 共同投資什麼"},{"start":28441.6,"end":28443.6,"text":"第九條在第八條之後"},{"start":28443.6,"end":28445.6,"text":"第十條之前沒有受持"},{"start":28445.6,"end":28447.6,"text":"那好歹你要寫說"},{"start":28447.6,"end":28449.6,"text":"對於投入無人宅具產業 政府得得的共同投資"},{"start":28449.6,"end":28451.6,"text":"所以這個條文不只是"},{"start":28451.6,"end":28453.6,"text":"托克斯放屁"},{"start":28453.6,"end":28455.6,"text":"根本也不曉得他的受益者是誰"},{"start":28455.97,"end":28457.97,"text":"中小企業在做"},{"start":28457.97,"end":28459.97,"text":"到處都中小企業 你這裡是無人宅具"},{"start":28459.97,"end":28461.97,"text":"你至少第八條還有寫"},{"start":28461.97,"end":28463.97,"text":"對投入無人宅具的"},{"start":28463.97,"end":28465.97,"text":"可以有什麼樣的一個作為獎勵"},{"start":28465.97,"end":28467.97,"text":"這一條連受持是誰都沒有"},{"start":28467.97,"end":28469.97,"text":"所以這個不是法律不好啦 這是中文不好"},{"start":28470.96,"end":28474.96,"text":"你要把這個投入無人宅具加進去你就支持嗎"},{"start":28474.96,"end":28476.96,"text":"那我支持你啊"},{"start":28476.96,"end":28478.96,"text":"不會 我都保留 因為我們要支持的很多都保留了"},{"start":28478.96,"end":28480.96,"text":"不用在這邊 我建議都保留了"},{"start":28482.82,"end":28484.82,"text":"保留好 再來"},{"start":28484.69,"end":28486.69,"text":"國民黨團提案第十條"},{"start":28493.72,"end":28495.72,"text":"第十條 部會"},{"start":28497.84,"end":28499.84,"text":"如果沒有一件你出手保留也可以"},{"start":28499.84,"end":28501.84,"text":"因為這還難行"},{"start":28504.5,"end":28506.5,"text":"好 那這一條的部分"},{"start":28506.5,"end":28508.5,"text":"經濟部這邊說明一下"},{"start":28508.5,"end":28510.5,"text":"所列的這些評估的內容"},{"start":28510.5,"end":28512.5,"text":"其實我們在"},{"start":28512.5,"end":28514.5,"text":"這個無人宅具財政法案投入計畫裡面"},{"start":28514.5,"end":28516.5,"text":"已經有績效廣考"},{"start":28516.5,"end":28518.5,"text":"跟成果檢討的機制"},{"start":28518.5,"end":28520.5,"text":"並可以彙整產值就業"},{"start":28520.5,"end":28522.5,"text":"跟其他的這些可量化的"},{"start":28522.5,"end":28524.5,"text":"成果來供立法院"},{"start":28524.5,"end":28526.5,"text":"參考 那建立無需要"},{"start":28526.5,"end":28528.5,"text":"立法規範 以上"},{"start":28528.5,"end":28530.5,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":28530.14,"end":28532.14,"text":"那我們討論還是保留啦"},{"start":28532.14,"end":28534.14,"text":"評估還是很重要 好 再來"},{"start":28534.49,"end":28536.49,"text":"國民黨團提案第十一條"},{"start":28536.49,"end":28538.49,"text":"跟賴世寶提案第十五條"},{"start":28540.74,"end":28542.74,"text":"建制部"},{"start":28543.67,"end":28545.67,"text":"這一條跟委員報告"},{"start":28545.67,"end":28547.67,"text":"那這個有關這些無人宅具的"},{"start":28547.67,"end":28549.67,"text":"治安標準跟高風險供應鏈的"},{"start":28549.67,"end":28551.67,"text":"一個管理"},{"start":28551.67,"end":28553.67,"text":"目前這個數位部"},{"start":28553.67,"end":28555.67,"text":"已經 數畫部已經會同相關"},{"start":28555.67,"end":28557.67,"text":"機關依照資通安全"},{"start":28557.67,"end":28559.67,"text":"跟國家安全的相關規定來推動"},{"start":28559.67,"end":28561.67,"text":"另外政府機關辦理"},{"start":28561.67,"end":28563.67,"text":"遙控無人機採購的時候"},{"start":28563.67,"end":28565.67,"text":"也可以按照工程會的遙控無人機"},{"start":28565.67,"end":28567.67,"text":"採購作業指引及各案的"},{"start":28567.67,"end":28569.67,"text":"這個契約納入治安與非供應"},{"start":28569.67,"end":28571.67,"text":"非供應鏈的這個要求"},{"start":28571.67,"end":28573.67,"text":"那建立也無需立法規範"},{"start":28573.67,"end":28575.67,"text":"以上"},{"start":28576.39,"end":28578.39,"text":"數畫部陳慧品主密"},{"start":28581.13,"end":28583.13,"text":"我看你們的書面報告都是尊重大院嘛"},{"start":28583.13,"end":28585.13,"text":"對不對"},{"start":28585.13,"end":28587.13,"text":"好 那也就保留"},{"start":28588.53,"end":28592.53,"text":"好 再來我們進行國民黨團提案的第12條"},{"start":28600.47,"end":28602.47,"text":"好 那第12條說明"},{"start":28603.48,"end":28606.48,"text":"這個國防部在辦理軍用無人"},{"start":28606.48,"end":28608.48,"text":"無人載具的這個採購及"},{"start":28608.48,"end":28610.48,"text":"政府機關辦理公務無人"},{"start":28611.53,"end":28613.53,"text":"載具的這個採購的時候"},{"start":28613.53,"end":28615.53,"text":"應該按照這個"},{"start":28615.53,"end":28617.53,"text":"現行採購的規範及各案的"},{"start":28617.53,"end":28619.53,"text":"契約要求辦理非供應鏈的這個"},{"start":28619.53,"end":28621.53,"text":"管理 那民用無人"},{"start":28621.53,"end":28623.53,"text":"載具那則應該按照"},{"start":28623.53,"end":28625.53,"text":"它產品的類型"},{"start":28625.53,"end":28627.53,"text":"重量用途還有使用的情境"},{"start":28627.53,"end":28629.53,"text":"分別符合適用的這個商品檢驗"},{"start":28629.53,"end":28631.53,"text":"非常安全或"},{"start":28631.53,"end":28633.53,"text":"資通安全的這個規定"},{"start":28633.53,"end":28635.53,"text":"另外數畫部也已經成立"},{"start":28635.53,"end":28637.53,"text":"無人機資安聯合"},{"start":28637.53,"end":28639.53,"text":"驗測實驗室辦理"},{"start":28639.53,"end":28641.53,"text":"無人機資安檢測及相關"},{"start":28642.41,"end":28644.41,"text":"的認驗證的這個工作"},{"start":28644.41,"end":28646.41,"text":"那通過檢測的這個廠商"},{"start":28646.41,"end":28648.41,"text":"的資訊也已經公佈在官方網站"},{"start":28648.41,"end":28650.41,"text":"所以我們也是建立不需要"},{"start":28650.41,"end":28652.41,"text":"立法規範 以上"},{"start":28652.14,"end":28654.14,"text":"好 數畫部"},{"start":28654.42,"end":28656.42,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":28655.84,"end":28657.84,"text":"保留"},{"start":28658.1,"end":28660.1,"text":"好 接下來國民黨同體案第13條"},{"start":28662.96,"end":28664.96,"text":"好 那第13條這邊說明"},{"start":28665.46,"end":28667.46,"text":"好"},{"start":28672.24,"end":28674.24,"text":"好"},{"start":28695.46,"end":28697.46,"text":"那另外協助業者也接軌國際市場"},{"start":28697.46,"end":28699.46,"text":"那現行的計畫及合作機制"},{"start":28699.46,"end":28701.46,"text":"已經可以"},{"start":28701.46,"end":28703.46,"text":"讓這個"},{"start":28703.46,"end":28705.46,"text":"產業及國際情勢"},{"start":28705.46,"end":28707.46,"text":"來做談進的這個推動"},{"start":28707.46,"end":28709.46,"text":"建立無需"},{"start":28709.46,"end":28711.46,"text":"立法規範 以上"},{"start":28713.25,"end":28715.25,"text":"好 所以一樣"},{"start":28715.25,"end":28717.25,"text":"就是保留 那我們一併加速"},{"start":28717.25,"end":28719.25,"text":"所以針對國民黨團體案第14條"},{"start":28719.25,"end":28721.25,"text":"第17條 第18條"},{"start":28721.25,"end":28723.25,"text":"第19條"},{"start":28724.15,"end":28726.15,"text":"經濟部簡單回應就可以"},{"start":28726.15,"end":28728.15,"text":"是建立 因為這個在統籌營相關的"},{"start":28728.15,"end":28730.15,"text":"計畫裡面 還有現行的"},{"start":28730.15,"end":28732.15,"text":"相關的附繞機制都已經有了"},{"start":28732.15,"end":28734.15,"text":"所以我們是建立無需立法"},{"start":28734.15,"end":28736.15,"text":"規範"},{"start":28735.44,"end":28737.44,"text":"好 一樣一併保留"},{"start":28737.95,"end":28739.95,"text":"接下來我們進行台灣民眾黨團體案第4條"},{"start":28739.95,"end":28741.95,"text":"委員宗嘉兵"},{"start":28743.45,"end":28745.45,"text":"提案的第3條跟"},{"start":28745.45,"end":28747.45,"text":"委員王定義提案的第4條"},{"start":28747.45,"end":28749.45,"text":"主要是這個"},{"start":28749.45,"end":28751.45,"text":"成立這個"},{"start":28751.45,"end":28753.45,"text":"戰略發展的"},{"start":28753.45,"end":28755.45,"text":"特色特別委員會"},{"start":28755.45,"end":28757.45,"text":"或者是像這個無人載具自主發展委員會"},{"start":28757.45,"end":28759.45,"text":"等等 請經濟部"},{"start":28759.45,"end":28761.45,"text":"好 那這個部分經濟部說明"},{"start":28761.45,"end":28763.45,"text":"那目前行政已經有"},{"start":28764.51,"end":28766.51,"text":"這個核定的統籌型計畫"},{"start":28766.51,"end":28768.51,"text":"那副院長也定期會召開"},{"start":28768.51,"end":28770.51,"text":"無人載具的產業發展及"},{"start":28770.51,"end":28772.51,"text":"管理的機制跨部會的"},{"start":28772.51,"end":28774.51,"text":"專案會議來統籌協調"},{"start":28774.51,"end":28776.51,"text":"推動無人載具的國防自主"},{"start":28776.51,"end":28778.51,"text":"產業發展及民主供應鏈"},{"start":28778.51,"end":28780.51,"text":"等相關的事項"},{"start":28780.68,"end":28782.68,"text":"目前的行政協調的機制主導的層級"},{"start":28782.68,"end":28784.68,"text":"跟參與的成員"},{"start":28784.68,"end":28786.68,"text":"都足以來推動相關的工作"},{"start":28786.68,"end":28788.68,"text":"並有監察管制的"},{"start":28788.68,"end":28790.68,"text":"管考的這個機制"},{"start":28790.68,"end":28792.68,"text":"建立不需要立法 吝嗇委員會"},{"start":28792.68,"end":28794.68,"text":"以上"},{"start":28794.68,"end":28796.68,"text":"我只問一個簡單問題 現在現行的機制"},{"start":28796.68,"end":28798.68,"text":"有外聘的學友專家 人數那些"},{"start":28798.68,"end":28800.68,"text":"有嗎"},{"start":28800.68,"end":28802.68,"text":"我們在一些"},{"start":28802.68,"end":28804.68,"text":"院會是沒有 下面才有"},{"start":28804.68,"end":28806.68,"text":"OK 好"},{"start":28806.68,"end":28808.68,"text":"了解現況 那一樣一併保留"},{"start":28809.54,"end":28811.54,"text":"接下來的話 台灣民眾黨團"},{"start":28811.54,"end":28813.54,"text":"提案第八條"},{"start":28813.54,"end":28815.54,"text":"委員中家"},{"start":28815.54,"end":28817.54,"text":"對不起 台灣民眾黨團提案的第六條"},{"start":28819.92,"end":28821.92,"text":"好 那這個部分"},{"start":28821.92,"end":28823.92,"text":"超市劇的飛行"},{"start":28823.92,"end":28825.92,"text":"跟夜間飛行 群飛"},{"start":28825.92,"end":28827.92,"text":"自主飛行"},{"start":28826.97,"end":28828.97,"text":"等的這些無人機的"},{"start":28828.97,"end":28830.97,"text":"飛航管制的制度已經由"},{"start":28830.97,"end":28832.97,"text":"交通部民航局"},{"start":28832.97,"end":28834.97,"text":"按照民用航空法及相關的"},{"start":28834.97,"end":28836.97,"text":"法規來辦理 並已經納入"},{"start":28836.97,"end":28838.97,"text":"統籌型計畫 持續檢討進進"},{"start":28838.97,"end":28840.97,"text":"建立不需立法來規範"},{"start":28840.97,"end":28842.97,"text":"以上 好"},{"start":28842.97,"end":28844.97,"text":"一樣的提案保留 接下來的話"},{"start":28844.97,"end":28846.97,"text":"我們看台灣民眾黨團提案第八條"},{"start":28846.97,"end":28848.97,"text":"委員中家賓提案第十條"},{"start":28848.97,"end":28850.97,"text":"王定宇提案的第九條"},{"start":28850.97,"end":28852.97,"text":"主要是在供應鏈分級認證"},{"start":28852.97,"end":28854.97,"text":"跟可信鏈供應鏈"},{"start":28855.59,"end":28857.59,"text":"那進一步說明"},{"start":28857.59,"end":28859.59,"text":"國安部採購軍用無人機或"},{"start":28859.88,"end":28861.88,"text":"公務機關採購民用無人機"},{"start":28861.88,"end":28863.88,"text":"應依現行的"},{"start":28863.88,"end":28865.88,"text":"這個軍事"},{"start":28865.88,"end":28867.88,"text":"跟公務的採購規範及"},{"start":28867.88,"end":28869.88,"text":"個案契約要求來辦理"},{"start":28869.73,"end":28871.73,"text":"非用供應鏈的這個管理"},{"start":28871.73,"end":28873.73,"text":"那至於民用無人機"},{"start":28873.73,"end":28875.73,"text":"並由這個經濟部標準檢驗局"},{"start":28875.73,"end":28877.73,"text":"跟交通部的民航局以及"},{"start":28877.73,"end":28879.73,"text":"速發部來分別辦理"},{"start":28879.73,"end":28881.73,"text":"善民檢驗 非常安全"},{"start":28881.73,"end":28883.73,"text":"以及自通安全的相關的檢測"},{"start":28883.73,"end":28885.73,"text":"另外經濟部也已經將外國"},{"start":28885.73,"end":28887.73,"text":"政府及國際認證"},{"start":28887.73,"end":28889.73,"text":"認證的這個機構合作"},{"start":28889.73,"end":28891.73,"text":"納入統籌型計畫中 並"},{"start":28891.73,"end":28893.73,"text":"支持公務員推動GreenUS"},{"start":28893.73,"end":28895.73,"text":"的驗證機制 協助業者"},{"start":28895.73,"end":28897.73,"text":"接軌國際市場"},{"start":28897.24,"end":28899.24,"text":"因此建立無需立法規範"},{"start":28900.21,"end":28902.21,"text":"主席"},{"start":28903.01,"end":28905.01,"text":"對於這個供應鏈的分級認證制度呢"},{"start":28905.01,"end":28907.01,"text":"這個是要另案"},{"start":28908.05,"end":28910.05,"text":"好好的來討論啦"},{"start":28910.05,"end":28912.05,"text":"那因為今天那麼多版本"},{"start":28912.05,"end":28914.05,"text":"很多版本聚焦在採購"},{"start":28914.05,"end":28916.05,"text":"那討論到其他的包括"},{"start":28916.05,"end":28918.05,"text":"本席剛剛的前面14條我已經表達了"},{"start":28918.05,"end":28920.05,"text":"我的版本我是認為"},{"start":28920.05,"end":28922.05,"text":"有必要但是可以跟"},{"start":28922.05,"end":28924.05,"text":"無人載具 創新科技"},{"start":28924.05,"end":28926.05,"text":"實驗條例來共同做處理"},{"start":28926.05,"end":28928.05,"text":"那麼至於後面的"},{"start":28928.05,"end":28930.05,"text":"第三條也好第十條也好"},{"start":28930.05,"end":28932.05,"text":"本席的版本 剛有說了不能"},{"start":28932.05,"end":28934.05,"text":"單獨條文保留"},{"start":28934.05,"end":28936.05,"text":"我是會傾向後面我的條文的版本"},{"start":28936.05,"end":28938.05,"text":"而今天溢出了採購方案的版本"},{"start":28938.05,"end":28940.05,"text":"就是保留在本委員會"},{"start":28940.05,"end":28942.05,"text":"我們另日我們會再有提案"},{"start":28942.05,"end":28944.05,"text":"來進行 所以我雖然"},{"start":28944.05,"end":28946.05,"text":"對於民眾黨團的版本"},{"start":28946.05,"end":28948.05,"text":"我並沒有認同是可以"},{"start":28948.05,"end":28950.05,"text":"同意 但是呢"},{"start":28950.05,"end":28952.05,"text":"我也可以接受它保留"},{"start":28952.05,"end":28954.05,"text":"但是我的部分是保留在"},{"start":28954.05,"end":28956.05,"text":"委員會 並只說明"},{"start":28958.61,"end":28960.61,"text":"也是整個版本喔"},{"start":28961.5,"end":28963.5,"text":"就是你的整個版本而已"},{"start":28963.5,"end":28965.5,"text":"那其他的版本我們就是送"},{"start":28966.76,"end":28968.76,"text":"OK 就是你的版本留在委員會"},{"start":28968.76,"end":28970.76,"text":"OK 好"},{"start":28972.53,"end":28974.53,"text":"好 所以這一個"},{"start":28974.53,"end":28976.53,"text":"一樣這邊都是保留"},{"start":28979.32,"end":28981.32,"text":"好 接下來的話"},{"start":28981.32,"end":28983.32,"text":"台灣民眾黨團提案第九條"},{"start":28990.2,"end":28992.2,"text":"經濟部說明有關"},{"start":28992.48,"end":28994.48,"text":"這一條裡面涉及到"},{"start":28994.48,"end":28996.48,"text":"這個網路通訊"},{"start":28996.48,"end":28998.48,"text":"評估的規劃以及相關"},{"start":28998.48,"end":29000.48,"text":"基礎設施涉及到速發部"},{"start":29001.07,"end":29003.07,"text":"指無線電"},{"start":29003.07,"end":29005.07,"text":"頻率規劃與"},{"start":29005.07,"end":29007.07,"text":"核配 還有NCC"},{"start":29007.07,"end":29009.07,"text":"國家通訊傳播委員會的"},{"start":29009.07,"end":29011.07,"text":"通訊傳播及設評器材的"},{"start":29011.07,"end":29013.07,"text":"管理 以及交通部國防部"},{"start":29013.07,"end":29015.07,"text":"等相關機關的這個權責"},{"start":29015.07,"end":29017.07,"text":"目前均已經有相關的"},{"start":29017.07,"end":29019.07,"text":"法規及機制可以依循"},{"start":29019.07,"end":29021.07,"text":"辦理 建立無需"},{"start":29021.07,"end":29023.07,"text":"立法規範 以上"},{"start":29025.1,"end":29027.1,"text":"所以這個保留"},{"start":29027.1,"end":29029.1,"text":"看起來大家都想保留"},{"start":29029.1,"end":29031.1,"text":"所以我們現在就從"},{"start":29031.1,"end":29033.1,"text":"第33月開始"},{"start":29033.1,"end":29035.1,"text":"到後面"},{"start":29035.1,"end":29037.1,"text":"其他的法案的部分"},{"start":29039.19,"end":29041.19,"text":"等等等等35月不行喔"},{"start":29041.59,"end":29043.59,"text":"35月是國防採購喔"},{"start":29043.59,"end":29045.59,"text":"這個不是產業輔導喔"},{"start":29045.59,"end":29047.59,"text":"我這邊是不是主席"},{"start":29047.59,"end":29049.59,"text":"好 好 好 那我們就是"},{"start":29049.59,"end":29051.59,"text":"台灣民眾黨團的第九條"},{"start":29051.59,"end":29053.59,"text":"第十條"},{"start":29053.59,"end":29055.59,"text":"一直到台灣民眾黨團的"},{"start":29055.59,"end":29057.59,"text":"第十一條保留"},{"start":29058.53,"end":29060.53,"text":"然後接下來我們進行的是"},{"start":29061.33,"end":29063.33,"text":"台灣民眾黨團第十二條國防採購"},{"start":29063.33,"end":29065.33,"text":"委員外事保"},{"start":29065.33,"end":29067.33,"text":"提案第十六條"},{"start":29067.33,"end":29069.33,"text":"鍾嘉斌提案的第八條"},{"start":29069.33,"end":29071.33,"text":"以及王定宇傳譯的第七條"},{"start":29073.48,"end":29075.48,"text":"請"},{"start":29097.02,"end":29099.02,"text":"請"},{"start":29126.99,"end":29128.99,"text":"好 鍾委員"},{"start":29128.99,"end":29130.99,"text":"雖然本席的第八條"},{"start":29130.99,"end":29132.99,"text":"我剛才也建議本席的本案全案"},{"start":29132.99,"end":29134.99,"text":"保留在委員會"},{"start":29134.99,"end":29136.99,"text":"但是不代表我認同台灣民眾黨的第十二條"},{"start":29136.99,"end":29138.99,"text":"因為這裡面都加"},{"start":29138.99,"end":29140.99,"text":"國防部應如何 國防部應如何"},{"start":29140.99,"end":29142.99,"text":"國防部應如何 國防部應如何"},{"start":29142.99,"end":29144.99,"text":"這些都是強加"},{"start":29144.99,"end":29146.99,"text":"一些不切實際的採購要求"},{"start":29146.99,"end":29148.99,"text":"國防部現在最需要的"},{"start":29148.99,"end":29150.99,"text":"不是應如何按照這些法令去採購"},{"start":29150.99,"end":29152.99,"text":"是"},{"start":29152.99,"end":29154.99,"text":"需要怎麼樣"},{"start":29154.99,"end":29156.99,"text":"要受到既有的傳統的採購的限制"},{"start":29156.99,"end":29158.99,"text":"這是國防部不需要的"},{"start":29158.99,"end":29160.99,"text":"寫了這麼多原則性的內容"},{"start":29160.99,"end":29162.99,"text":"完全對國防部沒有任何的幫助"},{"start":29162.99,"end":29164.99,"text":"所以呢 本席反對"},{"start":29164.99,"end":29166.99,"text":"第十二條"},{"start":29166.99,"end":29168.99,"text":"那至於第十六條的部分"},{"start":29168.99,"end":29170.99,"text":"這個代事保委員的B板呢"},{"start":29170.99,"end":29172.99,"text":"跟本席的內容是稍微相近"},{"start":29172.99,"end":29174.99,"text":"但是看代委員怎麼判斷"},{"start":29174.99,"end":29176.99,"text":"是不是要留在委員會"},{"start":29176.99,"end":29178.99,"text":"大家以後一起討論"},{"start":29178.99,"end":29180.99,"text":"不然的話本席是反對民眾黨團第十二條"},{"start":29184.28,"end":29186.28,"text":"好 保留 謝謝"},{"start":29188.03,"end":29190.03,"text":"接下來 第30的"},{"start":29190.03,"end":29192.03,"text":"那至於保委員的第17條"},{"start":29206.02,"end":29208.02,"text":"36月"},{"start":29209.78,"end":29211.78,"text":"好 跟委員報告"},{"start":29211.78,"end":29213.78,"text":"這個有關公務機"},{"start":29213.78,"end":29215.78,"text":"公務部門採購需求的盤點"},{"start":29215.78,"end":29217.78,"text":"還有國際市場的開發"},{"start":29217.78,"end":29219.78,"text":"以及產業外銷輔導"},{"start":29219.78,"end":29221.78,"text":"等措施已經納入統籌型計畫"},{"start":29221.78,"end":29223.78,"text":"那各政府機關"},{"start":29223.78,"end":29225.78,"text":"公立學校跟公營事業辦理"},{"start":29225.78,"end":29227.78,"text":"無人機的採購 也可以按照"},{"start":29227.78,"end":29229.78,"text":"政府採購法 以及工程會"},{"start":29229.78,"end":29231.78,"text":"訂定的遙控無人機採購"},{"start":29231.78,"end":29233.78,"text":"作業指引來辦理"},{"start":29233.78,"end":29235.78,"text":"具有非榮及國產零組件"},{"start":29235.78,"end":29237.78,"text":"使用的規範 建立不需要"},{"start":29237.78,"end":29239.78,"text":"訂立法規範 以上"},{"start":29240.14,"end":29242.14,"text":"好 一樣保留送委員會"},{"start":29242.14,"end":29244.14,"text":"接下來 台灣民眾黨團第13條"},{"start":29247.39,"end":29249.39,"text":"好 那第13條有關無人機的產業盤點"},{"start":29249.39,"end":29251.39,"text":"技術能量"},{"start":29251.39,"end":29253.39,"text":"檢測的驗證 測試場域"},{"start":29253.39,"end":29255.39,"text":"人才培訓 公務無人機的使用"},{"start":29255.39,"end":29257.39,"text":"共同供應企業以及"},{"start":29257.39,"end":29259.39,"text":"國際合作等相關的工作"},{"start":29259.39,"end":29261.39,"text":"都已經納入統籌型計畫來推動"},{"start":29262.34,"end":29264.34,"text":"但是因為資料涉及到營業秘密"},{"start":29264.34,"end":29266.34,"text":"國防機閩的資訊"},{"start":29266.23,"end":29268.23,"text":"個人的資料等"},{"start":29268.23,"end":29270.23,"text":"考量資訊集中的治安風險"},{"start":29270.23,"end":29272.23,"text":"且不宜對外公開"},{"start":29272.23,"end":29274.23,"text":"建立不需要訂立法規範"},{"start":29274.23,"end":29276.23,"text":"以上"},{"start":29276.72,"end":29278.72,"text":"好"},{"start":29277.97,"end":29281.97,"text":"因為我們已經有寫說說你會有涉及國防機密等等會去識別的話公佈的"},{"start":29281.97,"end":29283.97,"text":"好 但這還是一律保留啦 好不好"},{"start":29285.09,"end":29287.09,"text":"再來的話 台灣民眾黨團第14條"},{"start":29287.09,"end":29289.09,"text":"鍾嘉斌提案的第16條"},{"start":29289.09,"end":29291.09,"text":"王定宇提案第15條"},{"start":29293.34,"end":29295.34,"text":"法治的部分"},{"start":29296.23,"end":29298.23,"text":"好 那這一條就是"},{"start":29298.23,"end":29300.23,"text":"有關機關辦理採購補助獎勵投融資"},{"start":29300.23,"end":29302.23,"text":"或信用保證等作業"},{"start":29302.23,"end":29304.23,"text":"如發現資格不符"},{"start":29304.23,"end":29306.23,"text":"虛偽造假"},{"start":29306.23,"end":29308.23,"text":"或其他違法的情事"},{"start":29308.23,"end":29310.23,"text":"在政府採購法 產創條例"},{"start":29310.23,"end":29312.23,"text":"以及相關的法令都定有查核跟處分的機制"},{"start":29312.23,"end":29314.23,"text":"那補助案件"},{"start":29314.23,"end":29316.23,"text":"都可以按照產創條例的第九條"},{"start":29316.23,"end":29318.23,"text":"第二項"},{"start":29318.23,"end":29320.23,"text":"授權訂定的補助辦法及"},{"start":29320.23,"end":29322.23,"text":"契約規定辦理查核"},{"start":29322.23,"end":29324.23,"text":"停止撥款"},{"start":29324.23,"end":29326.23,"text":"或廢止補助"},{"start":29326.23,"end":29328.23,"text":"並追回款項"},{"start":29328.23,"end":29330.23,"text":"政府採購法的案件"},{"start":29329.96,"end":29333.96,"text":"也可以按照政府採購法及契約規定辦理履約查核"},{"start":29334.62,"end":29336.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29336.62,"end":29338.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29338.62,"end":29340.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29340.62,"end":29342.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29342.62,"end":29344.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29344.62,"end":29346.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29346.62,"end":29348.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29348.62,"end":29350.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29350.62,"end":29352.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29352.62,"end":29354.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29354.62,"end":29356.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29356.62,"end":29358.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29358.62,"end":29360.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29360.62,"end":29362.62,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29342.43,"end":29344.43,"text":"政府採購法案"},{"start":29344.43,"end":29346.43,"text":"及技術規格查核等四項"},{"start":29346.43,"end":29348.43,"text":"應由採購機關、補助機構"},{"start":29348.43,"end":29350.43,"text":"以及各目的事業主管機關"},{"start":29350.43,"end":29352.43,"text":"按照權責辦理"},{"start":29352.43,"end":29354.43,"text":"數位發展部也"},{"start":29354.43,"end":29356.43,"text":"數發部既有的無人機資安檢測及認證機制"},{"start":29356.43,"end":29358.43,"text":"也可就資安"},{"start":29358.43,"end":29360.43,"text":"提供協助"},{"start":29360.43,"end":29362.43,"text":"涉及到炸機偽造文書"},{"start":29362.43,"end":29364.43,"text":"或使公務人員登載不實"},{"start":29364.43,"end":29366.43,"text":"等情勢"},{"start":29366.43,"end":29368.43,"text":"則可按照刑法等相關規定"},{"start":29368.43,"end":29370.43,"text":"來處理"},{"start":29370.43,"end":29372.43,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29372.43,"end":29374.43,"text":"請求法定人數不足"},{"start":29374.16,"end":29376.16,"text":"好,一樣保留"},{"start":29376.16,"end":29378.16,"text":"接下來的話我們看第四十頁"},{"start":29378.16,"end":29380.16,"text":"台灣民眾黨團提案第十五條"},{"start":29381.04,"end":29383.04,"text":"好,那這一條有關無人機的產業發展"},{"start":29383.04,"end":29385.04,"text":"空域的管理"},{"start":29385.04,"end":29387.04,"text":"測試場域以及可信任供應鏈"},{"start":29387.04,"end":29389.04,"text":"等相關的工作"},{"start":29389.04,"end":29391.04,"text":"已經納入統籌型計畫推動"},{"start":29391.04,"end":29393.04,"text":"並由相關機關應照權責辦理"},{"start":29393.04,"end":29395.04,"text":"建立無需立法規範,以上"},{"start":29396.1,"end":29398.1,"text":"好,一樣保留"},{"start":29398.1,"end":29400.1,"text":"接下來的話,第四十頁"},{"start":29400.1,"end":29402.1,"text":"委員拉士堡的第五條"},{"start":29402.1,"end":29404.1,"text":"鍾家斌提案第七條"},{"start":29404.1,"end":29406.1,"text":"王定穎提案的第六條"},{"start":29406.1,"end":29408.1,"text":"租稅優惠"},{"start":29408.1,"end":29410.1,"text":"這個我提醒市長"},{"start":29410.1,"end":29412.1,"text":"這個是鼓勵廠商投入"},{"start":29412.1,"end":29414.1,"text":"無人機產業的發展"},{"start":29414.1,"end":29416.1,"text":"你"},{"start":29416.1,"end":29418.1,"text":"緊正回答"},{"start":29418.1,"end":29420.1,"text":"你不要看到在野黨就說"},{"start":29420.1,"end":29422.1,"text":"不要,不需要"},{"start":29422.1,"end":29424.1,"text":"鼓勵廠商給他一些"},{"start":29424.1,"end":29426.1,"text":"你不要管廠商不投不投意"},{"start":29426.1,"end":29428.1,"text":"就是鼓勵"},{"start":29428.1,"end":29430.1,"text":"你不要等明天人家性質做很大"},{"start":29430.1,"end":29432.1,"text":"說經濟部反對"},{"start":29432.1,"end":29434.1,"text":"這個廠商投入"},{"start":29434.1,"end":29436.1,"text":"不獎勵"},{"start":29436.1,"end":29438.1,"text":"廠商投入無人機產業"},{"start":29438.1,"end":29440.1,"text":"小心喔"},{"start":29440.1,"end":29442.1,"text":"好,跟我們報告,並不是說經濟部反對"},{"start":29442.1,"end":29444.1,"text":"是現有的機制就已經有"},{"start":29444.1,"end":29446.1,"text":"這些獎勵的措施"},{"start":29446.1,"end":29448.1,"text":"我們提高啦,比你現在好"},{"start":29448.1,"end":29450.1,"text":"好,我說明一下"},{"start":29450.1,"end":29452.1,"text":"就是現有的產創條例第十條"},{"start":29452.1,"end":29454.1,"text":"我們就研發支出的投資抵減"},{"start":29454.1,"end":29456.1,"text":"已經提供這些獎勵的誘運"},{"start":29456.1,"end":29458.1,"text":"那第十條是"},{"start":29458.1,"end":29460.1,"text":"投資抵減多少"},{"start":29460.56,"end":29462.56,"text":"目前是15%"},{"start":29462.56,"end":29464.56,"text":"15%我25%啊"},{"start":29464.56,"end":29466.56,"text":"我比你多啊"},{"start":29466.56,"end":29468.56,"text":"對不對,我比你多啦"},{"start":29468.56,"end":29470.56,"text":"用你剪輯啊"},{"start":29470.56,"end":29472.56,"text":"另外就是說"},{"start":29472.56,"end":29476.56,"text":"也有針對研發跟設備的支出提高抵減率"},{"start":29476.56,"end":29478.56,"text":"你們是多少"},{"start":29478.65,"end":29480.65,"text":"就20億"},{"start":29480.65,"end":29482.65,"text":"20億可以做投資抵減"},{"start":29482.65,"end":29484.65,"text":"可以做這個投資抵減"},{"start":29484.65,"end":29486.65,"text":"好,而且研發支出與設備的投資的性質"},{"start":29486.65,"end":29488.65,"text":"跟現行的優惠不一樣"},{"start":29489.73,"end":29491.73,"text":"建立回歸這個產創條例的"},{"start":29491.73,"end":29493.73,"text":"來做整體的一個檢討"},{"start":29493.73,"end":29495.73,"text":"產創不夠"},{"start":29495.73,"end":29497.73,"text":"不宜針對個別的產業"},{"start":29497.73,"end":29499.73,"text":"條例來另一個"},{"start":29499.73,"end":29501.73,"text":"不需要"},{"start":29501.73,"end":29503.73,"text":"這樣講就要給他"},{"start":29503.73,"end":29505.73,"text":"變成第二座的福國神山"},{"start":29505.73,"end":29507.73,"text":"現在還說不要對各個產業"},{"start":29507.73,"end":29509.73,"text":"千萬不要對他,市長"},{"start":29509.73,"end":29511.73,"text":"你膝蓋是粉印喔"},{"start":29514.73,"end":29516.73,"text":"中間那邊委員"},{"start":29516.73,"end":29518.73,"text":"沒問題,因為我已經表達"},{"start":29518.73,"end":29520.73,"text":"我的案子跟賴時寶有重疊的部分"},{"start":29520.73,"end":29522.73,"text":"但是我認為我要全案保留在委員會"},{"start":29522.73,"end":29524.73,"text":"因為我需要更多的時間"},{"start":29524.73,"end":29526.73,"text":"來跟剛剛說的無人載具科技創新實驗條例"},{"start":29526.73,"end":29528.73,"text":"來做個整合"},{"start":29528.73,"end":29530.73,"text":"事實上我也看了賴委員的內容"},{"start":29530.73,"end":29532.73,"text":"其實經濟部長說的也沒錯"},{"start":29532.73,"end":29534.73,"text":"這些既有的條文"},{"start":29534.73,"end":29536.73,"text":"既有的法制都具備"},{"start":29536.73,"end":29538.73,"text":"只是是不是要做一些調整"},{"start":29538.73,"end":29540.73,"text":"我是覺得有討論餘地"},{"start":29540.73,"end":29542.73,"text":"那現在賴時寶委員要保留我們就保留"},{"start":29542.44,"end":29544.44,"text":"楊全委員"},{"start":29544.44,"end":29546.44,"text":"我覺得這個條文很重要"},{"start":29546.44,"end":29548.44,"text":"因為我也是提案人"},{"start":29547.78,"end":29549.78,"text":"在我們目前所提"},{"start":29549.78,"end":29551.78,"text":"是15%而已"},{"start":29551.78,"end":29553.78,"text":"那我們今天的提案"},{"start":29553.78,"end":29555.78,"text":"所以行政部門我們大家討論"},{"start":29555.78,"end":29557.78,"text":"答不成就是送協商"},{"start":29557.78,"end":29559.78,"text":"我們再繼續討論"},{"start":29559.78,"end":29561.78,"text":"但是不要沒有看到內容就認為不要"},{"start":29561.78,"end":29563.78,"text":"我認為需要"},{"start":29563.78,"end":29565.78,"text":"他只有15%根本沒有辦法"},{"start":29565.78,"end":29567.78,"text":"真的充分去協助"},{"start":29567.78,"end":29569.78,"text":"而且在我們這個"},{"start":29569.78,"end":29571.78,"text":"潛量投資的抵減"},{"start":29571.78,"end":29573.78,"text":"你剛才說是21%"},{"start":29573.78,"end":29575.78,"text":"那你21%的標準是什麼"},{"start":29575.78,"end":29577.78,"text":"我提的是公司"},{"start":29577.78,"end":29579.78,"text":"該無人載具公司"},{"start":29579.78,"end":29581.78,"text":"當年度因賴營利事業所得稅"},{"start":29581.78,"end":29583.78,"text":"而50%違憲"},{"start":29583.78,"end":29585.78,"text":"那你有一個比例"},{"start":29585.78,"end":29587.78,"text":"那你今天20億"},{"start":29587.78,"end":29589.78,"text":"到底你們的比例是什麼"},{"start":29590.14,"end":29592.14,"text":"喜歡的多一點不喜歡少一點"},{"start":29592.14,"end":29594.14,"text":"還是多少額度怎麼樣比例"},{"start":29594.14,"end":29596.14,"text":"我們"},{"start":29595.9,"end":29597.9,"text":"不能如此我們是把比例"},{"start":29597.9,"end":29599.9,"text":"訂的很清楚說50%"},{"start":29599.9,"end":29601.9,"text":"以內嘛"},{"start":29601.9,"end":29603.9,"text":"所以不能一句話就說"},{"start":29603.9,"end":29605.9,"text":"這個沒有必要你們現在已經有你們"},{"start":29605.9,"end":29607.9,"text":"哪裡有"},{"start":29606.97,"end":29608.97,"text":"比例也不一樣"},{"start":29608.97,"end":29610.97,"text":"你的內容也不一樣啊"},{"start":29611.12,"end":29613.12,"text":"那個主席很重要"},{"start":29613.12,"end":29615.12,"text":"跟我們報告就是我們的20億"},{"start":29615.12,"end":29617.12,"text":"是全部都可以來做"},{"start":29617.12,"end":29619.12,"text":"投資體檢他沒有一個比例"},{"start":29619.12,"end":29621.12,"text":"的這個"},{"start":29621.12,"end":29623.12,"text":"這個更奇怪他完全沒有比例"},{"start":29623.12,"end":29625.12,"text":"沒有一個規矩"},{"start":29625.12,"end":29627.12,"text":"你要把那個定出來"},{"start":29627.12,"end":29629.12,"text":"對啊營利事業所得"},{"start":29629.12,"end":29631.12,"text":"所以我們一定有怎麼可能20億都沒有"},{"start":29631.12,"end":29633.12,"text":"沒有那個比例"},{"start":29633.12,"end":29635.12,"text":"沒有那個"},{"start":29635.12,"end":29637.12,"text":"還是項目多少還是金額"},{"start":29637.12,"end":29639.12,"text":"多少20億都沒有"},{"start":29639.12,"end":29641.12,"text":"那不是你隨便你要講多少就多少嗎"},{"start":29641.12,"end":29643.12,"text":"他如果"},{"start":29643.12,"end":29645.12,"text":"這個採購設備"},{"start":29645.12,"end":29647.12,"text":"或是採購一些研發設備"},{"start":29647.12,"end":29649.12,"text":"都可以來做投資體檢"},{"start":29649.12,"end":29651.12,"text":"所以也沒有額度的限制也沒有比例的限制"},{"start":29651.12,"end":29653.12,"text":"20億"},{"start":29653.12,"end":29655.12,"text":"總Total20億但是20億每一家"},{"start":29655.12,"end":29657.12,"text":"來的沒有金額的限制"},{"start":29657.12,"end":29659.12,"text":"也沒有比例的限制"},{"start":29659.12,"end":29661.12,"text":"就最高20億最高20億"},{"start":29661.12,"end":29663.12,"text":"但是要拿憑證來核銷"},{"start":29663.55,"end":29665.55,"text":"我們還是希望了解內容"},{"start":29665.55,"end":29667.55,"text":"我們希望多支持"},{"start":29667.55,"end":29669.55,"text":"所以這條很重要通過"},{"start":29672.69,"end":29676.69,"text":"建議不一定立法規範"},{"start":29678.11,"end":29680.11,"text":"不要保留在紀錄協商"},{"start":29685.67,"end":29687.67,"text":"在43開始"},{"start":29687.67,"end":29689.67,"text":"一直跳"},{"start":29690.34,"end":29692.34,"text":"58月的上面都是賴世保委員"},{"start":29694.68,"end":29696.68,"text":"這個"},{"start":29696.86,"end":2969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