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謝謝"},{"start":1921.8600000000001,"end":1925.3400000000001,"text":"謝謝三位黨團的幹部跟代表"},{"start":1925.3400000000001,"end":1927.0200000000002,"text":"也謝謝行政部門的練習"},{"start":1927.0200000000002,"end":1928.7,"text":"謝謝所有工作夥伴"},{"start":1928.7,"end":1930.42,"text":"今天我們協商題目兩個"},{"start":1930.42,"end":1932.2600000000002,"text":"第一個是監察院人事同意權"},{"start":1932.2600000000002,"end":1934.74,"text":"第二題是115年度總預算案"},{"start":1934.74,"end":1936.18,"text":"公務預算部分"},{"start":1936.18,"end":1938.2600000000002,"text":"我們依序進行協商"},{"start":1938.2600000000002,"end":1941.22,"text":"針對監委同意權的審查時程"},{"start":1941.22,"end":1944.8200000000002,"text":"依法我們預計在8月份完成"},{"start":1944.82,"end":1948.1799999999998,"text":"公聽會跟全院委會的審查時程"},{"start":1948.1799999999998,"end":1950.6599999999999,"text":"這一定要特別跟各位黨團報告"},{"start":1950.6599999999999,"end":1953.3799999999999,"text":"在這邊有一個協商的草稿"},{"start":1953.3799999999999,"end":1955.3799999999999,"text":"我會請議事人員先來發下去"},{"start":1955.94,"end":1957.3,"text":"等一下我會來宣讀"},{"start":1957.3,"end":1959.14,"text":"各位拿到手上之後"},{"start":1959.14,"end":1961.38,"text":"原則上我們是一場公聽會"},{"start":1961.38,"end":1965.94,"text":"加上五天的全院委員會進行審查"},{"start":1965.94,"end":1969.94,"text":"全院委員會是利用星期二跟星期四來進行"},{"start":1970.63,"end":1972.63,"text":"那請各位黨團幹部看一下"},{"start":1972.63,"end":1974.15,"text":"如果沒有意見的話呢"},{"start":1974.15,"end":1976.15,"text":"我們就來簽字"},{"start":1978.27,"end":1978.91,"text":"這個"},{"start":1981.59,"end":1983.59,"text":"我們這邊有三個重點"},{"start":1983.59,"end":1985.59,"text":"1.8月6號"},{"start":1985.43,"end":1989.43,"text":"星期四舉行監察院人事同意權案公聽會"},{"start":1989.43,"end":1993.43,"text":"各黨團推薦學者專家代表7位參加"},{"start":1993.43,"end":1995.43,"text":"國民黨團推派3位"},{"start":1995.43,"end":1997.43,"text":"民進黨團推派3位"},{"start":1997.43,"end":1999.43,"text":"台灣民眾黨團推派1位"},{"start":1999.43,"end":2001.43,"text":"各黨團審查小組委員"},{"start":2001.43,"end":2003.43,"text":"依上述比例"},{"start":2003.43,"end":2005.43,"text":"推派委員組成"},{"start":2005.43,"end":2009.43,"text":"名單請於7月31號星期五中午12點前"},{"start":2009.43,"end":2011.43,"text":"送交藝術處會診"},{"start":2011.43,"end":2013.43,"text":"御時勢同放棄"},{"start":2013.43,"end":2015.43,"text":"8月11號星期二"},{"start":2015.43,"end":2017.43,"text":"18號星期二"},{"start":2017.43,"end":2019.43,"text":"25號星期二改開全院委員會"},{"start":2020.37,"end":2022.37,"text":"並與8月13號星期四"},{"start":2022.37,"end":2024.37,"text":"20號星期四合併為一次會"},{"start":2024.37,"end":2028.37,"text":"8月11號星期二上午分別審查"},{"start":2028.37,"end":2032.37,"text":"監察院院長監察院副院長被提名人"},{"start":2032.57,"end":2034.57,"text":"並由7位委員進行詢答"},{"start":2034.57,"end":2036.57,"text":"國民黨團推派3位"},{"start":2036.57,"end":2038.57,"text":"民進黨團推派1位"},{"start":2038.57,"end":2040.57,"text":"台灣民眾黨團推派1位代表進行"},{"start":2040.57,"end":2042.57,"text":"8月11號星期二下午"},{"start":2042.57,"end":2044.57,"text":"13號星期四"},{"start":2044.57,"end":2046.57,"text":"18號星期二"},{"start":2046.57,"end":2048.5699999999997,"text":"20號星期四"},{"start":2048.5699999999997,"end":2050.5699999999997,"text":"25號星期二分別審查"},{"start":2050.5699999999997,"end":2052.5699999999997,"text":"監察委員被提名人"},{"start":2052.5699999999997,"end":2056.5699999999997,"text":"每位被提名人由5位委員進行詢答"},{"start":2056.5699999999997,"end":2058.5699999999997,"text":"國民黨團推派2位"},{"start":2058.5699999999997,"end":2060.5699999999997,"text":"民進黨團推派2位"},{"start":2060.57,"end":2062.57,"text":"民進黨團推派1位代表進行"},{"start":2062.57,"end":2064.57,"text":"名單請於8月10號"},{"start":2064.57,"end":2066.57,"text":"星期一中午12點前送交意識處會診"},{"start":2066.57,"end":2068.57,"text":"遇時視同放棄"},{"start":2068.57,"end":2072.57,"text":"詢答順序一律授權意識處進行處理"},{"start":2073.36,"end":2075.36,"text":"審查完畢之後"},{"start":2075.36,"end":2077.36,"text":"於第六會期進行同意全案"},{"start":2077.36,"end":2079.36,"text":"計明表決"},{"start":2079.36,"end":2081.36,"text":"3.有關監察院院長"},{"start":2081.36,"end":2083.36,"text":"副院長及25位監察委員"},{"start":2083.36,"end":2085.36,"text":"被提名人同意全案"},{"start":2085.36,"end":2087.36,"text":"相關事務及"},{"start":2087.36,"end":2089.36,"text":"時程詳如複表"},{"start":2089.36,"end":2091.36,"text":"請大家可以看一下後面的複表"},{"start":2091.36,"end":2093.36,"text":"如果沒有意見,麻煩三個黨團"},{"start":2094.72,"end":2096.72,"text":"現在可以簽字嗎?還是要發言?"},{"start":2100.72,"end":2102.72,"text":"好,翁小姐請發言"},{"start":2130.72,"end":2132.72,"text":"請發言"},{"start":2136.73,"end":2138.73,"text":"請發言"},{"start":2141.11,"end":2143.11,"text":"請發言"},{"start":2144.12,"end":2146.12,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2146.48,"end":2148.48,"text":"所以以前好像是可以的"},{"start":2148.48,"end":2150.48,"text":"但是後來是因為修法之後就不行了嗎?"},{"start":2152.64,"end":2154.64,"text":"好,了解了解"},{"start":2154.64,"end":2156.64,"text":"一定是100一眼都是照規定的"},{"start":2156.64,"end":2158.64,"text":"一定會改修的"},{"start":2158.64,"end":2160.64,"text":"對,好"},{"start":2160.64,"end":2162.64,"text":"那各位委員如果沒有意見,請各黨的代表請簽字好嗎?"},{"start":2164.77,"end":2166.77,"text":"我們就完成第一案的草野協商"},{"start":2220.66,"end":2222.66,"text":"各位黨團幹部更正一下"},{"start":2222.66,"end":2226.66,"text":"因為8月25號有非常多重要的法案要審查"},{"start":2226.66,"end":2228.66,"text":"我們多留一天當彈性"},{"start":2228.66,"end":2230.66,"text":"所以"},{"start":2230.66,"end":2232.66,"text":"最後全院委員會第五場"},{"start":2232.66,"end":2234.66,"text":"監察院同意審查報告"},{"start":2234.66,"end":2236.66,"text":"我們改提早一天8月24號"},{"start":2236.66,"end":2238.66,"text":"這樣我們25號就全部控出來了"},{"start":2238.66,"end":2240.66,"text":"我們有非常多的法律院這一天"},{"start":2240.66,"end":2242.66,"text":"可能要進行處理"},{"start":2242.66,"end":2244.66,"text":"好吧"},{"start":2244.66,"end":2246.66,"text":"麻煩一下大家"},{"start":2246.66,"end":2248.66,"text":"我們現在更改25改為24"},{"start":2250.87,"end":2252.87,"text":"對,24號就最後一場"},{"start":2252.87,"end":2254.87,"text":"對,那25號這一天我們要全部"},{"start":2254.87,"end":2256.87,"text":"拿過來處理法律案"},{"start":2263.37,"end":2267.37,"text":"現在手上有一個改好的,麻煩大家根據這個改好的來簽一下,謝謝"},{"start":2516.01,"end":2518.01,"text":"時間非常長"},{"start":2518.01,"end":2520.01,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":2525.24,"end":2527.24,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部"},{"start":2527.24,"end":2529.24,"text":"我們進入第二題"},{"start":2529.24,"end":2531.24,"text":"115年度總預算案"},{"start":2531.24,"end":2533.24,"text":"公務預算部分的協商"},{"start":2533.49,"end":2535.49,"text":"那今天我們原則上協商時間"},{"start":2535.49,"end":2537.49,"text":"下午六點"},{"start":2538.15,"end":2540.15,"text":"原則上協商時間到下午六點"},{"start":2541.27,"end":2547.27,"text":"那我們現在來介紹今天與會的所有的各內閣的官員"},{"start":2547.27,"end":2549.27,"text":"首先我們歡迎行政院張秘書長"},{"start":2549.27,"end":2551.27,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":2551.27,"end":2553.27,"text":"國家發展委員會業主任委員"},{"start":2554.16,"end":2556.16,"text":"經濟部國務長歡迎您"},{"start":2557.34,"end":2559.34,"text":"主計總處陳主計長歡迎您"},{"start":2560.37,"end":2562.37,"text":"監察院黃秘書長"},{"start":2565.59,"end":2567.59,"text":"監察院黃秘書長"},{"start":2570.11,"end":2572.11,"text":"監察院有代表來嗎"},{"start":2572.02,"end":2574.02,"text":"現在也監察院了嗎"},{"start":2577.32,"end":2579.32,"text":"好,我們通知一下監察院黃秘書長"},{"start":2579.32,"end":2581.32,"text":"監察院黃秘書長請坐"},{"start":2581.32,"end":2583.32,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝各位練習的官員"},{"start":2585.55,"end":2591.55,"text":"好,我們現在進入115年度中央政府總預算案通案協商提案會進入第一案組"},{"start":2592.57,"end":2594.57,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2594.75,"end":2596.75,"text":"翁小林委員所提案,請問翁委員有沒有意見"},{"start":2598.07,"end":2604.07,"text":"沒有意見了,因為我的提案基本上也跟主計總處這裡討論過"},{"start":2604.07,"end":2606.07,"text":"他們也提了這個文字的修正"},{"start":2606.07,"end":2608.07,"text":"那我這邊也同意了"},{"start":2608.07,"end":2610.07,"text":"所以基本上第一案是沒有問題"},{"start":2610.07,"end":2618.07,"text":"我第一案主要是希望說未來各個機關可以上網公告他們的預算和決算以及會計報告的資料"},{"start":2618.07,"end":2622.07,"text":"而且必須要提供各種不同的檔案格式"},{"start":2622.07,"end":2628.07,"text":"這也方便民眾,有興趣的民眾還有立法委員問政時候的作業"},{"start":2630.37,"end":2634.37,"text":"那就這個部分來說,主計總處沒有意見,我們已經討論過了"},{"start":2634.37,"end":2637.37,"text":"好的,好,謝謝翁小林委員的發言"},{"start":2637.37,"end":2639.37,"text":"那跟主計總處協調過"},{"start":2639.37,"end":2647.37,"text":"就是改正上述的缺失,把它調整為檢討精進,落實執行這八個字"},{"start":2647.37,"end":2649.37,"text":"好,主計總處"},{"start":2649.37,"end":2653.37,"text":"已經並且在兩個月內,向立法院財政委員會提出改正"},{"start":2653.37,"end":2655.37,"text":"我同意,好,張秘書長請"},{"start":2656.48,"end":2659.48,"text":"謝謝院長、謝謝翁委員,這八個字是我改的"},{"start":2659.48,"end":2664.48,"text":"因為不同的格式,在不同的系統界面都能夠廣泛運用"},{"start":2664.48,"end":2667.48,"text":"對開放政府也是好事,也是我們一貫的立場"},{"start":2667.48,"end":2672.48,"text":"所以我覺得原本的寫法不夠具體,所以我把它改成檢討精進,落實執行"},{"start":2672.48,"end":2673.48,"text":"那謝謝院長、謝謝委員"},{"start":2673.48,"end":2676.48,"text":"好,謝謝,那我們第一案就修正通過"},{"start":2676.48,"end":2678.48,"text":"我們進入第二案"},{"start":2679.44,"end":2683.44,"text":"國民黨團的主決議,請國民黨團表達一下意見"},{"start":2683.44,"end":2685.44,"text":"裡面有修正文字,請"},{"start":2695.74,"end":2698.74,"text":"你們改為山坡地及平地造林"},{"start":2698.74,"end":2700.74,"text":"請國民黨團表達一下意見"},{"start":2700.74,"end":2703.74,"text":"基本上針對這個都市林這句話"},{"start":2703.74,"end":2706.74,"text":"其實我們後來把它改成山坡地跟平地造林"},{"start":2706.74,"end":2709.74,"text":"跟後面有關增加行政效率,應負起更多責任"},{"start":2709.74,"end":2712.74,"text":"都是為了希望說在這個主決議裡面"},{"start":2712.74,"end":2716.74,"text":"我們的予意能夠更清楚,更能夠聚焦在我們想要改善的問題,以上"},{"start":2719.47,"end":2720.47,"text":"好"},{"start":2720.43,"end":2722.43,"text":"謝謝,謝謝林沛祥市議長"},{"start":2722.43,"end":2724.43,"text":"那個龔部長經濟部要表達一下意見嗎?"},{"start":2726.07,"end":2728.07,"text":"經濟會要表達一下意見,請"},{"start":2728.07,"end":2729.07,"text":"張院長請"},{"start":2729.56,"end":2731.56,"text":"謝謝院長,謝謝林沛祥委員"},{"start":2731.56,"end":2734.56,"text":"第一個我必須要先說明一下"},{"start":2734.56,"end":2738.56,"text":"這個原本國民黨團的提案,確實都市林可能有點誤解"},{"start":2738.56,"end":2743.56,"text":"農業部的自然碳會的計畫,確實是在處理山坡地跟平地造林"},{"start":2743.56,"end":2747.56,"text":"所以謝謝國民黨團有做文字的修正"},{"start":2747.56,"end":2751.56,"text":"那這也證明了說,這個行政部門有山坡地跟平地造林"},{"start":2751.56,"end":2755.56,"text":"而總統所召開的國家氣候變遷對策委員會"},{"start":2755.56,"end":2757.56,"text":"處理都市林的部分剛好是相輔相成"},{"start":2757.56,"end":2760.56,"text":"也證明了在總統府設立這樣子的一個委員會"},{"start":2760.56,"end":2763.56,"text":"有其意義價值跟必要性,謝謝"},{"start":2764.83,"end":2768.83,"text":"好,那現在我們就根據這個國民黨團所提的修正"},{"start":2768.83,"end":2772.83,"text":"以及張秘書長剛才所報告的,我們把它修正通過"},{"start":2772.83,"end":2774.83,"text":"好,謝謝,我們進入第三案"},{"start":2781.33,"end":2785.33,"text":"我們第三案是國民黨黨團所提的提案"},{"start":2785.33,"end":2787.33,"text":"請國民黨黨團要不要補充一切"},{"start":2791,"end":2795,"text":"好,謝謝院長,因為是有關CPTPP這個案子"},{"start":2795,"end":2798,"text":"其實從過去到現在,當CPTPP出來之後"},{"start":2798,"end":2800,"text":"其實大家都很關注"},{"start":2800,"end":2802,"text":"但是很可惜的,就是說到目前為止"},{"start":2802,"end":2804,"text":"效果不彰,然後進度也不明顯"},{"start":2804,"end":2807,"text":"所以我們在這邊期待用主決議的方式"},{"start":2807,"end":2811,"text":"來讓CPTPP整個辦公室也好,還是未來的加入也好"},{"start":2811,"end":2813,"text":"能夠更加進速,謝謝"},{"start":2814.63,"end":2816.63,"text":"那館部長您需要補充嗎?還是不用?"},{"start":2816.63,"end":2818.63,"text":"我們就照樣通過了,好,張秘書長請"},{"start":2820.38,"end":2822.38,"text":"好,謝謝院長,謝謝林委員"},{"start":2822.38,"end":2825.38,"text":"畢竟主決議還是會落實在預算書上面"},{"start":2825.38,"end":2828.38,"text":"所以有幾個關於時序上面的問題"},{"start":2828.38,"end":2831.38,"text":"可能要提出來討論一下"},{"start":2831.38,"end":2833.38,"text":"第一個確實這個"},{"start":2835.55,"end":2838.55,"text":"台灣申請加入CPTPP是在2021年的9月"},{"start":2838.55,"end":2840.55,"text":"但第一個"},{"start":2840.77,"end":2844.77,"text":"中央政府解禁日本福島五線食品進口的限制"},{"start":2844.77,"end":2846.77,"text":"並不是發生在2021年"},{"start":2846.77,"end":2848.77,"text":"是分做兩個階段"},{"start":2848.77,"end":2851.77,"text":"第一個階段是在2022年的2月"},{"start":2851.77,"end":2854.77,"text":"那個時候還有三原則三管制"},{"start":2854.77,"end":2857.77,"text":"所以第二個時間點的問題是在於"},{"start":2857.77,"end":2860.77,"text":"隔年日本在台代表全裕泰還表示"},{"start":2860.77,"end":2864.77,"text":"全裕泰代表也不是在2022年"},{"start":2864.77,"end":2866.77,"text":"做以下的表示,他是在2021年"},{"start":2866.77,"end":2870.77,"text":"也就是同年在一個活動上講的這句話"},{"start":2870.77,"end":2874.77,"text":"所以這個部分是不是可以提出部分的修正"},{"start":2874.77,"end":2877.77,"text":"第二個是從國民黨團的提案"},{"start":2877.77,"end":2879.77,"text":"我們也可以看得出來"},{"start":2879.77,"end":2881.77,"text":"這邊提案有提到說"},{"start":2881.77,"end":2884.77,"text":"台灣就對新加坡、紐西蘭、加拿大、澳洲等"},{"start":2884.77,"end":2887.77,"text":"簽訂雙邊的貿易協定"},{"start":2887.77,"end":2890.77,"text":"也證明了政府有在推動CPTPP加入努力"},{"start":2890.77,"end":2893.77,"text":"而在國民黨團所提案的文字裡面"},{"start":2893.77,"end":2895.77,"text":"也有提到說"},{"start":2895.77,"end":2898.77,"text":"越南的一中政策未變之下等等"},{"start":2898.77,"end":2903.77,"text":"也證明了確實中國才是阻礙台灣加入CPTPP的最關鍵因素"},{"start":2903.77,"end":2906.77,"text":"所以是否能夠做一些文字修正"},{"start":2906.77,"end":2910.77,"text":"這邊也跟院長、跟立法院、跟全體國人報告"},{"start":2910.77,"end":2915.77,"text":"行政院一直在希望把OTN的體質做得更好"},{"start":2915.77,"end":2920.77,"text":"去年卓院長就核定了6個OTN正式編制的緣額"},{"start":2920.77,"end":2925.77,"text":"那如果今年行政院用本部的預算能夠順利的通過"},{"start":2925.77,"end":2928.77,"text":"我們也期望在下半年再新增緣額"},{"start":2928.77,"end":2932.77,"text":"而即將送來立法院的116年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":2932.77,"end":2935.77,"text":"我們也會再幫OTN增加緣額"},{"start":2935.77,"end":2937.77,"text":"所以是否能夠再"},{"start":2937.92,"end":2939.92,"text":"到數第三段的部分"},{"start":2939.92,"end":2944.92,"text":"可以改為要求行政院因加速改組行政院經貿辦公室"},{"start":2944.92,"end":2947.92,"text":"那後面的文字可以直接接到"},{"start":2947.92,"end":2950.92,"text":"尋求穩定理性的兩岸互動方式"},{"start":2950.92,"end":2954.92,"text":"避利我國申請加入CPTPP進程取得實質進展"},{"start":2954.92,"end":2955.92,"text":"以上建議"},{"start":2955.92,"end":2957.92,"text":"謝謝張院長補充"},{"start":2957.92,"end":2961.92,"text":"那現在張院長你現在剛才發下來就是你們建議的一個文字修正"},{"start":2961.92,"end":2963.92,"text":"好請各黨團幹部看一下"},{"start":2963.92,"end":2966.92,"text":"這個三個黨團先看一下"},{"start":2966.92,"end":2968.92,"text":"有幾個文字修正"},{"start":2968.92,"end":2970.92,"text":"然後請國民黨團表達一下意見"},{"start":2970.92,"end":2971.92,"text":"大家先看一下"},{"start":2971.92,"end":2973.92,"text":"解禁前面加逐步"},{"start":2974.6,"end":2976.6,"text":"無妄改為無果"},{"start":2977.25,"end":2981.25,"text":"實質合作前面加上推動更新"},{"start":2981.25,"end":2987.25,"text":"或洽簽雙邊經貿協議協定等"},{"start":2988,"end":2990,"text":"那再來倒數第三行"},{"start":2990,"end":2992,"text":"立即改為加速"},{"start":2992.96,"end":2994.96,"text":"國民黨團看完之後"},{"start":2994.96,"end":2996.96,"text":"台灣民眾黨團看有沒有意見"},{"start":2997.87,"end":2999.87,"text":"好請林佩祥書記長"},{"start":2999.87,"end":3003.87,"text":"報告院長我覺得用加速這個字眼我個人覺得有點籠統"},{"start":3003.87,"end":3008.87,"text":"事實上來講我們就是期待有專業人才進來這個CPTPP辦公室"},{"start":3008.87,"end":3010.87,"text":"那如果使用加速這兩字的話"},{"start":3010.87,"end":3011.87,"text":"六個月也算加速"},{"start":3011.87,"end":3012.87,"text":"三年也算加速"},{"start":3012.87,"end":3014.87,"text":"那我們會期待說"},{"start":3014.87,"end":3016.87,"text":"要有一個時間"},{"start":3016.87,"end":3018.87,"text":"要有一個很確切的時間"},{"start":3018.87,"end":3020.87,"text":"什麼時候能夠改組"},{"start":3020.87,"end":3022.87,"text":"以專業人才來改組"},{"start":3022.87,"end":3025.87,"text":"那像是說剛剛院長提三個月啊兩個月之類的"},{"start":3025.87,"end":3027.87,"text":"我覺得這樣是比較妥當的方式"},{"start":3027.87,"end":3029.87,"text":"我們建議是兩個月"},{"start":3029.87,"end":3031.87,"text":"那個國民黨團提的加速"},{"start":3033.03,"end":3034.03,"text":"立即"},{"start":3034.03,"end":3035.03,"text":"馬上"},{"start":3035.03,"end":3036.03,"text":"迅速"},{"start":3037.02,"end":3039.02,"text":"那這個太抽象了"},{"start":3039.02,"end":3041.02,"text":"就是定為兩個月張秉立長您覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":3042.14,"end":3044.14,"text":"我想三個月可不可以"},{"start":3044.14,"end":3045.14,"text":"三個月好嗎"},{"start":3045.14,"end":3046.14,"text":"好"},{"start":3046.14,"end":3047.14,"text":"三個月"},{"start":3047.14,"end":3049.14,"text":"那我們加速就改為三個月"},{"start":3049.14,"end":3051.14,"text":"行政院在三個月之內"},{"start":3051.14,"end":3053.14,"text":"我們就改組行政院及貿易辦公室"},{"start":3053.14,"end":3055.14,"text":"我想這樣應該可以獲得一個共識"},{"start":3055.14,"end":3058.14,"text":"大家各位黨團幹部還有各位練習的委員有沒有意見"},{"start":3058.14,"end":3061.14,"text":"沒有意見我們第三案就修正通過"},{"start":3061.14,"end":3062.14,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3064.29,"end":3066.29,"text":"第四"},{"start":3065.56,"end":3067.56,"text":"第三"},{"start":3070.86,"end":3074.86,"text":"好第四案我們國民黨團所提的主決議"},{"start":3074.86,"end":3076.86,"text":"文字請他看一下"},{"start":3076.86,"end":3077.86,"text":"因為他後面又要簡略"},{"start":3077.86,"end":3079.86,"text":"那個文字上有簡略"},{"start":3079.86,"end":3080.86,"text":"要請看一下"},{"start":3082.28,"end":3084.28,"text":"那請國民黨團還是一樣表達一下意見好嗎"},{"start":3084.28,"end":3085.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3091.53,"end":3093.53,"text":"好主要是針對說這個公務預算"},{"start":3093.53,"end":3095.53,"text":"匡列442億"},{"start":3095.53,"end":3097.53,"text":"那其實我們會認為說"},{"start":3097.53,"end":3099.53,"text":"在計這個預算來"},{"start":3099.53,"end":3101.53,"text":"預算來之後"},{"start":3101.53,"end":3103.53,"text":"這個計畫才核定"},{"start":3103.53,"end":3105.53,"text":"那我們覺得這樣子可能相對比較起來"},{"start":3105.53,"end":3108.53,"text":"公務預算不應該是這樣做編列的方式的"},{"start":3108.53,"end":3110.53,"text":"所以說也是因為這樣子我們"},{"start":3110.53,"end":3111.53,"text":"我們有這個主決議的存在"},{"start":3111.53,"end":3112.53,"text":"以上"},{"start":3115.86,"end":3116.86,"text":"以上就是"},{"start":3129.11,"end":3131.11,"text":"張秘書長您說明還是請經濟部長"},{"start":3131.11,"end":3132.11,"text":"好國務部長謝謝"},{"start":3132.11,"end":3135.11,"text":"好我想這個有很大的誤解"},{"start":3135.11,"end":3137.11,"text":"因為這個無人機統籌計畫裡面"},{"start":3137.11,"end":3139.11,"text":"事實上有包含著"},{"start":3139.11,"end":3141.11,"text":"有一些已經是延續性的計畫"},{"start":3141.11,"end":3144.11,"text":"比如說我們以經濟部來講"},{"start":3144.11,"end":3147.11,"text":"無人機的產業推動的這個計畫裡面"},{"start":3147.11,"end":3151.11,"text":"亞洲無人機創新中心的發展計畫"},{"start":3151.11,"end":3154.11,"text":"那這個事實上從113年就開始做了"},{"start":3154.11,"end":3156.11,"text":"112年就核定了"},{"start":3156.11,"end":3158.11,"text":"就是所謂的亞創計畫"},{"start":3158.11,"end":3160.11,"text":"那個已經是開始了"},{"start":3160.11,"end":3163.11,"text":"這個只是在這個統籌型計畫以後"},{"start":3163.11,"end":3166.11,"text":"我們把它匯整到這個統籌型計畫裡面"},{"start":3166.11,"end":3168.11,"text":"所以基本上它的預算是一個延續性的"},{"start":3168.11,"end":3170.11,"text":"不是"},{"start":3170.22,"end":3173.22,"text":"不是後來核定以後才開始做的"},{"start":3173.22,"end":3174.22,"text":"不是這樣子"},{"start":3174.22,"end":3175.22,"text":"之前就已經核定了"},{"start":3175.22,"end":3177.22,"text":"同樣很多計畫也是這樣"},{"start":3177.22,"end":3180.22,"text":"包括我們技術師的這個無人機"},{"start":3180.22,"end":3182.22,"text":"飛行系統的"},{"start":3183.03,"end":3185.03,"text":"國產自主關鍵技術"},{"start":3185.03,"end":3187.03,"text":"這個也是從114年就開始做"},{"start":3188.21,"end":3191.21,"text":"或者是晶片驅動台灣產業創新的"},{"start":3191.21,"end":3193.21,"text":"無人機關鍵晶片的加速計畫"},{"start":3193.21,"end":3196.21,"text":"這個也是從114年就開始做"},{"start":3196.59,"end":3199.59,"text":"另外國科會的無人機關鍵技術的前瞻計畫"},{"start":3199.59,"end":3201.59,"text":"也是114年開始做"},{"start":3201.59,"end":3202.59,"text":"等等的一些情況"},{"start":3202.59,"end":3204.59,"text":"還有這個國防部這個民雄的"},{"start":3204.59,"end":3206.59,"text":"這個航太的產業元器"},{"start":3206.59,"end":3208.59,"text":"也是從114年已經開始做了"},{"start":3208.59,"end":3210.59,"text":"所以這個很多預算"},{"start":3210.59,"end":3213.59,"text":"它不是說核定以後才開始做的"},{"start":3213.59,"end":3215.59,"text":"不是這樣的意思"},{"start":3215.59,"end":3216.59,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":3217.59,"end":3219.59,"text":"謝謝國務部長的說明"},{"start":3219.59,"end":3221.59,"text":"還有請宗家賓文說明"},{"start":3221.59,"end":3224.59,"text":"國民黨團請看一下最後倒數第二行的字"},{"start":3224.59,"end":3227.59,"text":"這有點矛盾的地方"},{"start":3227.59,"end":3228.59,"text":"要刪除"},{"start":3228.59,"end":3230.59,"text":"我這裡說一個謝謝主席"},{"start":3230.59,"end":3233.59,"text":"也對經濟部提出一個詢問"},{"start":3233.59,"end":3238.59,"text":"上週一經濟委員會安排到亞創中心進行考察"},{"start":3238.59,"end":3241.59,"text":"就你說在那個"},{"start":3243.39,"end":3245.39,"text":"就是嘉義的那裡"},{"start":3245.39,"end":3247.39,"text":"那蔡議員特別安排"},{"start":3247.39,"end":3250.39,"text":"那我們去到那裡看到進駐的廠商相當多"},{"start":3250.61,"end":3252.61,"text":"可是現場的情況呢"},{"start":3253.65,"end":3254.65,"text":"荒涼"},{"start":3255.34,"end":3258.34,"text":"連門口展示的那架無人機呢"},{"start":3258.34,"end":3261.34,"text":"因為上次颱風來受到損毀"},{"start":3261.34,"end":3263.34,"text":"他們把他機翅翅膀拆下來了"},{"start":3263.34,"end":3265.34,"text":"現在還沒有裝上去"},{"start":3265.34,"end":3267.34,"text":"那我們就詢問"},{"start":3267.52,"end":3269.52,"text":"當天有出席的相關機關"},{"start":3270.49,"end":3273.49,"text":"他們說亞創中心他有一期二期三期"},{"start":3273.49,"end":3275.49,"text":"那後續的計畫"},{"start":3275.49,"end":3278.49,"text":"因為本年度是屬於新創計畫"},{"start":3278.49,"end":3280.49,"text":"所以延續性的新創計畫"},{"start":3280.49,"end":3281.49,"text":"他不能撥款"},{"start":3281.93,"end":3283.93,"text":"所以他們完全不能夠進行"},{"start":3283.93,"end":3285.93,"text":"整個場地的更新"},{"start":3285.93,"end":3287.93,"text":"建築的興辦"},{"start":3287.93,"end":3289.93,"text":"以至於現在進入的廠商"},{"start":3289.93,"end":3291.93,"text":"就變成卡在那裡"},{"start":3291.45,"end":3293.45,"text":"那他們現在就開始期待"},{"start":3293.45,"end":3296.45,"text":"民雄那邊是不是有可以再去興建"},{"start":3296.45,"end":3298.45,"text":"那如果行政院對於"},{"start":3298.45,"end":3300.45,"text":"已經投入的計畫"},{"start":3300.45,"end":3304.45,"text":"持續要推動的後續經費"},{"start":3304.45,"end":3306.45,"text":"沒有辦法到位"},{"start":3306.45,"end":3308.45,"text":"那進駐的廠商"},{"start":3308.45,"end":3310.45,"text":"就會覺得受騙上當"},{"start":3310.45,"end":3312.45,"text":"所以我是覺得經濟部這邊要來說明一下"},{"start":3312.45,"end":3313.45,"text":"是不是那一天"},{"start":3313.45,"end":3314.45,"text":"好像副署長"},{"start":3314.45,"end":3316.45,"text":"那天是主任秘書有在場"},{"start":3316.45,"end":3317.45,"text":"那我是覺得呢"},{"start":3317.45,"end":3318.45,"text":"大家都要看"},{"start":3318.45,"end":3320.45,"text":"442億"},{"start":3320.45,"end":3321.45,"text":"對行政院來講"},{"start":3321.45,"end":3323.45,"text":"他把延續性的新創的"},{"start":3323.45,"end":3326.45,"text":"他用一個統籌型計畫的名稱匡列下來"},{"start":3326.45,"end":3328.45,"text":"那為的就是讓大家知道"},{"start":3328.45,"end":3329.45,"text":"讓業者知道"},{"start":3329.45,"end":3331.45,"text":"這些項目都會涉及到"},{"start":3331.45,"end":3334.45,"text":"我國未來無人載具產業發展"},{"start":3334.45,"end":3336.45,"text":"那因此他們就願意"},{"start":3336.45,"end":3337.45,"text":"調撥資源來投入"},{"start":3337.45,"end":3339.45,"text":"結果現在就看到了"},{"start":3339.45,"end":3340.45,"text":"我們今天這個提案"},{"start":3340.45,"end":3341.45,"text":"本來以為是動"},{"start":3341.45,"end":3343.45,"text":"也現在說要統三"},{"start":3343.45,"end":3344.45,"text":"要把有名目的"},{"start":3344.45,"end":3347.45,"text":"掛在這個無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫"},{"start":3347.45,"end":3349.45,"text":"這些所有的項目"},{"start":3349.45,"end":3350.45,"text":"只要有掛上這個名字的"},{"start":3350.45,"end":3352.45,"text":"就認為這個無人載具是不必要的"},{"start":3352.45,"end":3353.45,"text":"要刪除的"},{"start":3353.45,"end":3357.45,"text":"這個給外界一個很大嚴重錯誤的印象"},{"start":3357.45,"end":3359.45,"text":"說我們的國會不重視"},{"start":3359.45,"end":3361.45,"text":"台灣未來無人載具的發展"},{"start":3361.45,"end":3364.45,"text":"甚至現在在亞創中心進駐那些業者"},{"start":3364.45,"end":3365.45,"text":"他們要苦苦等待不到"},{"start":3365.45,"end":3368.45,"text":"到底後期的預算什麼時候可以進來"},{"start":3368.45,"end":3369.45,"text":"把二期三期的工程完成"},{"start":3369.45,"end":3370.45,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3370.45,"end":3371.45,"text":"經濟部能不能說明一下"},{"start":3371.45,"end":3372.45,"text":"好 喬編 謝謝"},{"start":3372.45,"end":3373.45,"text":"那個 對不起"},{"start":3373.45,"end":3375.45,"text":"那國民黨團需不需要再修正"},{"start":3375.45,"end":3376.45,"text":"如果不修正"},{"start":3376.45,"end":3378.45,"text":"還要再研究好就保留囉"},{"start":3379.72,"end":3381.72,"text":"好 副總召請發言"},{"start":3382.61,"end":3383.61,"text":"那個院長可不可以"},{"start":3383.61,"end":3385.61,"text":"大家都好好講話"},{"start":3385.61,"end":3387.61,"text":"我知道 但是我們先 下面"},{"start":3387.61,"end":3389.61,"text":"好 先請副總請"},{"start":3390.78,"end":3395.78,"text":"我想支持國防產業能夠自主的發展"},{"start":3395.78,"end":3398.78,"text":"還有相關的這樣的一個採購"},{"start":3398.78,"end":3400.78,"text":"來充斥我們的國防"},{"start":3400.78,"end":3402.78,"text":"我想國民黨團"},{"start":3402.98,"end":3406.98,"text":"非常堅決的也強力的支持"},{"start":3406.98,"end":3408.98,"text":"從過去通過的"},{"start":3408.98,"end":3410.98,"text":"尊重發言委員好不好 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我光是講煤炫費就好"},{"start":5260.04,"end":5264.04,"text":"媒體政策及業務宣導費統刪60%"},{"start":5264.04,"end":5266.04,"text":"你們寫法甚至還說"},{"start":5266.04,"end":5268.04,"text":"委員會刪減數"},{"start":5268.04,"end":5270.04,"text":"如果超過通案的決議刪減數"},{"start":5270.04,"end":5274.04,"text":"則以各委員會審查刪減數為準"},{"start":5274.04,"end":5276.04,"text":"我不知道你們哪裡來的靈感"},{"start":5276.04,"end":5278.04,"text":"認為媒體政策及業務宣導費"},{"start":5278.04,"end":5280.04,"text":"統刪60%"},{"start":5280.04,"end":5282.04,"text":"不知道是不是某一位國民黨的分區委員"},{"start":5282.04,"end":5284.04,"text":"他因為用了這個方法"},{"start":5284.04,"end":5286.04,"text":"在非常多委員會統刪非常多煤炫費"},{"start":5286.04,"end":5288.04,"text":"我不確定你們是不是跟這樣的委員學習"},{"start":5288.04,"end":5290.04,"text":"可是我要說現在"},{"start":5290.04,"end":5292.04,"text":"此時此刻我們在協商的時候"},{"start":5292.04,"end":5294.04,"text":"已經是7月29號了"},{"start":5294.04,"end":5296.04,"text":"先是藍白兩黨不認真審預算"},{"start":5296.04,"end":5298.04,"text":"拖到最後一刻才在補寫作業"},{"start":5298.04,"end":5300.04,"text":"補寫考卷"},{"start":5300.04,"end":5302.04,"text":"你們最怕看到的就是"},{"start":5302.04,"end":5304.04,"text":"等到新年度的預算書上進來"},{"start":5304.04,"end":5306.04,"text":"全台灣人民看到藍白最大的這個"},{"start":5306.04,"end":5308.04,"text":"國會變成兩年的預算書"},{"start":5308.04,"end":5310.04,"text":"一起審你們覺得丟臉"},{"start":5310.04,"end":5312.04,"text":"所以你們現在坐在這裡想要趕快過水"},{"start":5312.04,"end":5314.04,"text":"趕快處理"},{"start":5314.04,"end":5316.04,"text":"我就問煤炫費這一題"},{"start":5316.04,"end":5318.04,"text":"到底哪裡惹到你們了"},{"start":5318.04,"end":5320.04,"text":"我想問7月29號到現在"},{"start":5320.04,"end":5322.04,"text":"如果已經都還沒有"},{"start":5322.04,"end":5324.04,"text":"已經發包下去的已經在執行的"},{"start":5324.04,"end":5326.04,"text":"請問你要他怎麼辦"},{"start":5326.04,"end":5328.04,"text":"這是第一個"},{"start":5328.95,"end":5330.95,"text":"你們覺得煤炫費你們還有疑義嗎"},{"start":5330.95,"end":5332.95,"text":"你們很不開心嗎"},{"start":5332.95,"end":5334.95,"text":"我來唸一段話給你們聽一下"},{"start":5334.95,"end":5336.95,"text":"我不要告訴你這個是誰說的"},{"start":5336.95,"end":5338.95,"text":"但請你們聽一聽"},{"start":5338.95,"end":5340.95,"text":"這個是你們藍白的縣市首長說的"},{"start":5340.95,"end":5342.95,"text":"他說我相信"},{"start":5342.95,"end":5344.95,"text":"因為媒體宣傳費各局處"},{"start":5344.95,"end":5346.95,"text":"都還是會需要透過專業"},{"start":5346.95,"end":5348.95,"text":"來進行相關的宣傳"},{"start":5348.95,"end":5350.95,"text":"而且每一次的活動"},{"start":5350.95,"end":5352.95,"text":"相關的規劃內容形態"},{"start":5352.95,"end":5354.95,"text":"也都會不一樣"},{"start":5354.95,"end":5356.95,"text":"當然他說宣傳的效益"},{"start":5356.95,"end":5358.95,"text":"如果可以擴大"},{"start":5358.95,"end":5360.95,"text":"會有努力的空間"},{"start":5360.95,"end":5362.95,"text":"既然有議員提出來指教"},{"start":5362.95,"end":5364.95,"text":"就會來檢視"},{"start":5364.48,"end":5366.48,"text":"講這句話的市長"},{"start":5366.48,"end":5368.48,"text":"他的煤炫費"},{"start":5368.48,"end":5370.48,"text":"並沒有被粗暴的對待"},{"start":5370.48,"end":5372.48,"text":"雖然議員提出了他的實質監督"},{"start":5372.48,"end":5374.48,"text":"市長也公開的回覆"},{"start":5374.48,"end":5376.48,"text":"我來告訴你"},{"start":5376.48,"end":5378.48,"text":"這個是他用了多少錢"},{"start":5378.48,"end":5380.48,"text":"光是他們的觀光傳播局"},{"start":5380.48,"end":5382.48,"text":"花了9407萬"},{"start":5382.48,"end":5384.48,"text":"他們的體育局"},{"start":5384.48,"end":5386.48,"text":"花在相關的煤炫費8415萬"},{"start":5386.48,"end":5388.48,"text":"文化局花了"},{"start":5388.48,"end":5390.48,"text":"6939萬"},{"start":5390.48,"end":5392.48,"text":"這個是"},{"start":5392.12,"end":5394.12,"text":"台北市蔣萬安說的"},{"start":5394.12,"end":5396.12,"text":"花了將近1.28億"},{"start":5396.12,"end":5398.12,"text":"我們再來看侯友宜的"},{"start":5398.12,"end":5400.12,"text":"新北市花了1.62億"},{"start":5400.12,"end":5402.12,"text":"以上我說的全部"},{"start":5402.12,"end":5404.12,"text":"都是煤炫費"},{"start":5404.12,"end":5406.12,"text":"桃園花了8700萬"},{"start":5406.12,"end":5408.12,"text":"台中市花了4900萬"},{"start":5408.12,"end":5410.12,"text":"花蓮花了2.2億"},{"start":5410.9,"end":5412.9,"text":"花蓮內2.2億"},{"start":5412.9,"end":5414.9,"text":"果然是非常了不起的縣市"},{"start":5414.9,"end":5416.9,"text":"雲林花了5737萬"},{"start":5419.25,"end":5421.25,"text":"這些都是實實在在的煤炫費"},{"start":5421.25,"end":5423.25,"text":"至於在立法院裡面"},{"start":5423.25,"end":5425.25,"text":"發生煤炫費被刪"},{"start":5425.25,"end":5427.25,"text":"我所在的教文委員會裡面"},{"start":5427.25,"end":5429.25,"text":"文化部積極認真的"},{"start":5429.25,"end":5431.25,"text":"跟相關提案的委員說明了"},{"start":5431.25,"end":5433.25,"text":"煤炫費花到哪裡去"},{"start":5433.25,"end":5435.25,"text":"不聽就是不聽"},{"start":5435.25,"end":5437.25,"text":"要刪就是要刪"},{"start":5437.25,"end":5439.25,"text":"甚至相關提案是用複製貼上的方法"},{"start":5439.25,"end":5441.25,"text":"貼到不同的委員會去"},{"start":5441.25,"end":5443.25,"text":"甚至在一輪提案之後"},{"start":5443.25,"end":5445.25,"text":"泛話恐嚇威脅各部會首長說"},{"start":5445.25,"end":5447.25,"text":"我們二輪提案件"},{"start":5447.25,"end":5449.25,"text":"這是藍白立委說的話"},{"start":5449.25,"end":5451.25,"text":"我不確定煤炫費對你們來說"},{"start":5451.25,"end":5453.25,"text":"是多麼大的恐懼"},{"start":5453.25,"end":5455.25,"text":"把相關業務對國人說清楚有很難嗎"},{"start":5455.25,"end":5457.25,"text":"把相關的活動辦出來有很難嗎"},{"start":5457.25,"end":5459.25,"text":"這些事情是我們中央在做的"},{"start":5459.25,"end":5461.25,"text":"如果中央在做的事情"},{"start":5461.25,"end":5463.25,"text":"跟地方在做的是一樣的"},{"start":5463.25,"end":5465.25,"text":"透過辦活動透過政令宣導"},{"start":5465.25,"end":5467.25,"text":"透過很多的政策宣導"},{"start":5467.25,"end":5469.25,"text":"把事情講清楚讓人民知道"},{"start":5469.25,"end":5471.25,"text":"不要有任何訊息被漏接"},{"start":5471.25,"end":5473.25,"text":"不要有人被忽略到"},{"start":5473.25,"end":5475.25,"text":"這些事情是地方在做"},{"start":5475.25,"end":5477.25,"text":"所以我們中央的施政被地方的人民知道"},{"start":5477.25,"end":5479.25,"text":"再來我要說剛剛我所說的那些數字"},{"start":5479.25,"end":5481.25,"text":"請問在各地方議會"},{"start":5481.25,"end":5483.25,"text":"有受到粗暴的對待不當的對待嗎"},{"start":5483.25,"end":5485.25,"text":"這些縣市首長"},{"start":5485.25,"end":5487.25,"text":"有被他們的民意代表霸凌嗎"},{"start":5487.25,"end":5489.25,"text":"但我們看見的是在立法院"},{"start":5490.68,"end":5492.68,"text":"所有藍白立委共同在霸凌各部會首長"},{"start":5492.68,"end":5494.68,"text":"光是沒宣費這件事情荒謬至極"},{"start":5494.68,"end":5496.68,"text":"荒謬至極"},{"start":5496.68,"end":5498.68,"text":"我接下來要說更可笑的是出國旅費"},{"start":5498.68,"end":5500.68,"text":"如果你們覺得對於到大陸地區"},{"start":5500.68,"end":5502.68,"text":"你們有疑問"},{"start":5502.68,"end":5504.68,"text":"我說是中國這個極權獨裁國家"},{"start":5504.68,"end":5506.68,"text":"你們認為各部會首長出差到那邊去"},{"start":5506.68,"end":5508.68,"text":"你們有疑問你們要做你的處理"},{"start":5508.68,"end":5510.68,"text":"我沒有意見但我們來看"},{"start":5510.68,"end":5512.68,"text":"光是其他出國費用你們做了什麼樣的處理"},{"start":5514,"end":5516,"text":"去年一樣坐在這邊"},{"start":5516,"end":5518,"text":"你們針對監察院所在做的人權宣導工作"},{"start":5518,"end":5520,"text":"你們針對監察院所在做的人權宣導工作"},{"start":5520,"end":5522,"text":"相關國際會議"},{"start":5522,"end":5524,"text":"我想請剛剛發言的委員聽一聽"},{"start":5524,"end":5526,"text":"去年我就坐在這裡"},{"start":5526,"end":5528,"text":"當時你們不只羞辱"},{"start":5528,"end":5530,"text":"國家人權委員會在做的事情"},{"start":5530,"end":5532,"text":"羞辱監察院長"},{"start":5532,"end":5534,"text":"今年繼續用一樣的方法"},{"start":5534,"end":5536,"text":"所以我會說你們的說辭"},{"start":5536,"end":5538,"text":"你們的說帖你們的寫法"},{"start":5538,"end":5540,"text":"甚至沒有創意沒有心意"},{"start":5540,"end":5542,"text":"剛剛你們講話"},{"start":5542,"end":5544,"text":"我沒有時間限制嗎憑什麼我說話就有時間限制"},{"start":5544,"end":5546,"text":"我可以繼續說嗎主席"},{"start":5547.86,"end":5549.86,"text":"OK"},{"start":5548.89,"end":5550.89,"text":"但是麻煩稍微控制一下時間"},{"start":5550.89,"end":5552.89,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5552.89,"end":5554.89,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5554.4,"end":5556.4,"text":"光是人權這件事情你們有多麼害怕被人家知道"},{"start":5556.4,"end":5558.4,"text":"光是人權這件事情你們有多麼害怕被人家知道"},{"start":5558.89,"end":5560.89,"text":"我就問你們多害怕你們待會自己要不要說一說"},{"start":5560.89,"end":5562.89,"text":"監察院裡面"},{"start":5562.89,"end":5564.89,"text":"你們的民眾黨團體驗是怎麼說的"},{"start":5564.89,"end":5566.89,"text":"你們對於監察院"},{"start":5566.89,"end":5568.89,"text":"身為國際監察組織"},{"start":5568.89,"end":5570.89,"text":"還有伊比利美洲監察史聯盟的"},{"start":5570.89,"end":5572.89,"text":"正式會員這件事情他們"},{"start":5572.89,"end":5574.89,"text":"必須要出國進行交流"},{"start":5574.89,"end":5576.89,"text":"會議今年就定在"},{"start":5576.89,"end":5578.89,"text":"11月在阿根廷去年"},{"start":5578.89,"end":5580.89,"text":"在別的國家你們要黨今年繼續"},{"start":5580.89,"end":5582.89,"text":"黨然後國家人權委員會"},{"start":5582.89,"end":5584.89,"text":"是亞太地區的國家人權"},{"start":5584.89,"end":5586.89,"text":"機構論壇的成員觀察"},{"start":5586.89,"end":5588.89,"text":"委員之一我們台灣"},{"start":5588.89,"end":5590.89,"text":"好不容易千辛萬苦"},{"start":5590.89,"end":5592.89,"text":"突破外交困境"},{"start":5592.89,"end":5594.89,"text":"所有外交人員的努力所有人權委員"},{"start":5594.89,"end":5596.89,"text":"的努力你們有看在眼裡嗎"},{"start":5596.89,"end":5598.89,"text":"他們好不容易為台灣爭取到"},{"start":5598.89,"end":5600.89,"text":"這麼一點點的國際地位"},{"start":5600.89,"end":5602.89,"text":"觀察員身份哪裡愛到你們了"},{"start":5602.89,"end":5604.89,"text":"出席相關的APF年會"},{"start":5604.89,"end":5606.89,"text":"你們一樣黨他出國旅費"},{"start":5606.89,"end":5608.89,"text":"我要跟各位藍白委員報告"},{"start":5608.89,"end":5610.89,"text":"115年APF年會"},{"start":5610.89,"end":5612.89,"text":"在12月4號在約旦召開"},{"start":5612.89,"end":5614.89,"text":"如果你們今天相關旅費全部"},{"start":5614.89,"end":5616.89,"text":"都要刪除讓他們沒辦法"},{"start":5616.89,"end":5618.89,"text":"執行是不是我們好不容易爭取到"},{"start":5618.89,"end":5620.89,"text":"的外交地位外交空間就會因此"},{"start":5620.89,"end":5622.89,"text":"而消失當台灣的外交"},{"start":5622.89,"end":5624.89,"text":"地位外交空間因此而消失"},{"start":5624.89,"end":5626.89,"text":"到底得利的是誰難道是要在"},{"start":5626.89,"end":5628.89,"text":"難道是這些藍白的委員嗎你們"},{"start":5628.89,"end":5630.89,"text":"真的不樂見台灣在國際地位"},{"start":5630.89,"end":5632.89,"text":"可以有發射的空間嗎"},{"start":5632.89,"end":5634.89,"text":"海院長不是才剛出席國際的很多"},{"start":5634.89,"end":5636.89,"text":"會不是才帶很多跨"},{"start":5636.89,"end":5638.89,"text":"黨派的委員一起出國嗎"},{"start":5638.89,"end":5640.89,"text":"謝謝所以這件事情是為了什麼"},{"start":5641.56,"end":5643.56,"text":"你們可以不願意台灣團結"},{"start":5643.56,"end":5645.56,"text":"你們可以為了自己的政治利益"},{"start":5645.56,"end":5647.56,"text":"做政治操作但是在國際上"},{"start":5647.56,"end":5649.56,"text":"台灣他就是一個國家台灣他"},{"start":5649.56,"end":5651.56,"text":"就是一個需要被看見的地方所以"},{"start":5651.56,"end":5653.56,"text":"光是出國旅費這件事情沒宣費"},{"start":5653.56,"end":5655.56,"text":"這件事情我今天沒有抹任何人"},{"start":5655.56,"end":5657.56,"text":"戴上紅帽子我也不想抹紅"},{"start":5657.56,"end":5659.56,"text":"因為上次有某一個在黨委員"},{"start":5659.56,"end":5661.56,"text":"在叫人說不要抹紅但"},{"start":5661.56,"end":5663.56,"text":"我今天就說在不抹紅的前提"},{"start":5663.56,"end":5665.56,"text":"下請問台灣被看見哪裡"},{"start":5665.56,"end":5667.56,"text":"愛到你們了所以你們黨了出國旅費"},{"start":5667.56,"end":5669.56,"text":"你們黨了沒宣費接下來你們要黨什麼"},{"start":5670.35,"end":5672.35,"text":"難道我又要聽到你們要叫部長"},{"start":5672.35,"end":5674.35,"text":"自己寫臉書嗎所以難道我也可以說"},{"start":5674.35,"end":5676.35,"text":"台北市蔣萬安你就叫你的"},{"start":5676.35,"end":5678.35,"text":"英文繼續拍影片發臉書"},{"start":5678.35,"end":5680.35,"text":"好謝謝做抹黑的圖卡"},{"start":5680.35,"end":5682.35,"text":"這樣是你們願意看見的嗎"},{"start":5682.84,"end":5684.84,"text":"誰是雙標我想大家看得非常清楚"},{"start":5684.84,"end":5686.84,"text":"陳培宇委員表達很詳盡"},{"start":5686.84,"end":5688.84,"text":"我們現在請翁曉琳委員請發言"},{"start":5691.04,"end":5693.04,"text":"好這話說從頭這個為什麼"},{"start":5693.04,"end":5695.04,"text":"我們今天的預算要拖到"},{"start":5695.04,"end":5697.04,"text":"七月底了才審議"},{"start":5697.04,"end":5699.04,"text":"始作庸者罪魁禍首"},{"start":5699.04,"end":5701.04,"text":"就是民進黨"},{"start":5701.04,"end":5703.04,"text":"政府的卓榮泰還有賴清德"},{"start":5703.04,"end":5707.04,"text":"因為他們不公佈法律不附屬法律"},{"start":5707.04,"end":5709.04,"text":"不依法編列預算"},{"start":5709.04,"end":5711.04,"text":"所以呢在野黨這邊呢"},{"start":5711.04,"end":5713.04,"text":"強烈的表示抗議"},{"start":5713.04,"end":5715.04,"text":"認為必須要完成這些憲政"},{"start":5715.04,"end":5717.04,"text":"義務而且必須要依法編列"},{"start":5717.04,"end":5719.04,"text":"軍人加給之後我們再來"},{"start":5719.04,"end":5721.04,"text":"審這個中央政府總預算"},{"start":5721.04,"end":5723.04,"text":"那但是在韓院長的"},{"start":5723.04,"end":5725.04,"text":"焦急協商之下我們也退讓了"},{"start":5725.04,"end":5729.04,"text":"我也考量到就是苦民所苦"},{"start":5729.04,"end":5731.04,"text":"我們還是需要給這個刑罪機關"},{"start":5731.04,"end":5733.04,"text":"這些費用去用所以我們"},{"start":5733.04,"end":5735.04,"text":"也認真地審查這一次的預算"},{"start":5735.04,"end":5739.04,"text":"我還記得當時院長在召開"},{"start":5739.04,"end":5741.04,"text":"到底要不要審預算的時候有說"},{"start":5742.32,"end":5748.32,"text":"行政院要提出軍公教待遇條例草案的議題"},{"start":5750.02,"end":5754.02,"text":"行政院到現在有送出軍公教待遇條例草案嗎"},{"start":5754.88,"end":5756.88,"text":"沒有"},{"start":5757.14,"end":5759.14,"text":"委員院長協商的時間是六個月"},{"start":5759.14,"end":5761.14,"text":"沒有我現在要再講"},{"start":5761.14,"end":5763.14,"text":"我現在要再講"},{"start":5763.14,"end":5765.14,"text":"好所以呢雖然他們沒有"},{"start":5765.14,"end":5767.14,"text":"送可是我們還是審了"},{"start":5767.14,"end":5769.14,"text":"我現在要講的是"},{"start":5769.98,"end":5771.98,"text":"在去年針對煤炫費"},{"start":5771.98,"end":5773.98,"text":"我們本來也就是"},{"start":5773.98,"end":5775.98,"text":"通案刪減百分之六十"},{"start":5775.98,"end":5777.98,"text":"有些部會是全刪包含文化部在內"},{"start":5777.98,"end":5779.98,"text":"可是我們也看到"},{"start":5779.98,"end":5781.98,"text":"文化部在去年這一年裡面"},{"start":5781.98,"end":5783.98,"text":"他們沒有做任何業務宣導嗎"},{"start":5783.98,"end":5785.98,"text":"有啊"},{"start":5785.98,"end":5787.98,"text":"也做得不錯啊"},{"start":5787.98,"end":5789.98,"text":"我們辦的一些活動文化部部長"},{"start":5789.98,"end":5791.98,"text":"不是自己也很認真地去宣傳嗎"},{"start":5791.98,"end":5793.98,"text":"他們自己回覆給我們的說明"},{"start":5793.98,"end":5795.98,"text":"都說他們業務單位"},{"start":5795.98,"end":5797.98,"text":"可以透過各式各樣的方式"},{"start":5797.98,"end":5799.98,"text":"在臉書po文召開記者會"},{"start":5799.98,"end":5801.98,"text":"來做業務宣導"},{"start":5801.98,"end":5803.98,"text":"我要講的是煤炫費"},{"start":5803.98,"end":5805.98,"text":"本來就不是必要費用"},{"start":5805.98,"end":5807.98,"text":"是如果說今天"},{"start":5807.98,"end":5809.98,"text":"我剛剛念的那段話你有沒有去講給蔣萬安聽啊"},{"start":5809.98,"end":5811.98,"text":"那個裴委員我們麻煩"},{"start":5811.98,"end":5813.98,"text":"尊重一下發言委拜託"},{"start":5813.98,"end":5815.98,"text":"他總是很愛這樣插嘴"},{"start":5815.88,"end":5817.88,"text":"好 我要講的是"},{"start":5818.6,"end":5822.6,"text":"煤炫費它本來就不是政府支出的必要費用"},{"start":5822.6,"end":5824.6,"text":"更何況我要講的是"},{"start":5824.6,"end":5826.6,"text":"我們民進黨"},{"start":5826.6,"end":5828.6,"text":"是部會機關的首長"},{"start":5828.6,"end":5830.6,"text":"各個能言善道"},{"start":5830.6,"end":5832.6,"text":"口才極好"},{"start":5832.6,"end":5834.6,"text":"我們陸委會梁文傑"},{"start":5834.6,"end":5836.6,"text":"副主委說"},{"start":5836.6,"end":5838.6,"text":"他一個人就可以去"},{"start":5838.6,"end":5840.6,"text":"他一個人他用他那一張嘴"},{"start":5840.6,"end":5842.6,"text":"他就可以去對抗中共的文炫"},{"start":5842.6,"end":5844.6,"text":"我非常的"},{"start":5844.6,"end":5846.6,"text":"欽佩我也認為我們"},{"start":5846.6,"end":5848.6,"text":"其他部會機關的首長"},{"start":5848.6,"end":5850.6,"text":"都有這個能力"},{"start":5850.6,"end":5852.6,"text":"可以做到把自己的"},{"start":5852.6,"end":5854.6,"text":"業務宣導講好"},{"start":5854.6,"end":5856.6,"text":"然後業務做好"},{"start":5856.6,"end":5858.6,"text":"不需要浪費明指明高"},{"start":5858.6,"end":5860.6,"text":"每年花幾十億"},{"start":5860.6,"end":5862.6,"text":"去做煤炫"},{"start":5862.6,"end":5864.6,"text":"而且沒有效果"},{"start":5864.6,"end":5866.6,"text":"重點是有效果則罷"},{"start":5866.6,"end":5868.6,"text":"還沒有效果"},{"start":5868.6,"end":5870.6,"text":"我們看了很多文化部做的一些"},{"start":5870.6,"end":5872.6,"text":"這個什麼宣傳影片"},{"start":5872.6,"end":5874.6,"text":"或是其他的機關做宣傳影片"},{"start":5874.6,"end":5876.6,"text":"點閱次數"},{"start":5876.6,"end":5878.6,"text":"只有幾十次"},{"start":5878.83,"end":5880.83,"text":"上百次"},{"start":5880.68,"end":5882.68,"text":"這樣的業務宣傳費"},{"start":5883.63,"end":5885.63,"text":"該話嗎"},{"start":5885.24,"end":5887.24,"text":"當然不該花"},{"start":5887.87,"end":5889.87,"text":"對"},{"start":5889.87,"end":5891.87,"text":"我們今天韓院長隨便po一個文"},{"start":5891.87,"end":5893.87,"text":"幾十萬人看"},{"start":5893.87,"end":5895.87,"text":"如果說今天哪一個部會"},{"start":5895.87,"end":5897.87,"text":"你們今天po一個文做一個影片"},{"start":5897.87,"end":5899.87,"text":"有這樣這麼好的效果我當然全力支持"},{"start":5899.87,"end":5901.87,"text":"我現在講了就是每一個部會首長"},{"start":5901.87,"end":5903.87,"text":"這個民進黨政府每個部會首長"},{"start":5903.87,"end":5905.87,"text":"大家都是口才"},{"start":5905.87,"end":5907.87,"text":"這個"},{"start":5907.51,"end":5909.51,"text":"能言善道你們都可以把你們業務講的非常好"},{"start":5912.32,"end":5914.32,"text":"現在我們看到的就是"},{"start":5914.32,"end":5916.32,"text":"很多部會機關"},{"start":5916.32,"end":5918.32,"text":"到底是不是真的在做煤炫"},{"start":5918.32,"end":5920.32,"text":"我看都不是在為我們國家"},{"start":5920.32,"end":5922.32,"text":"政府這個機關做文宣"},{"start":5922.32,"end":5924.32,"text":"看起來都在為民進黨做文宣"},{"start":5924.32,"end":5926.32,"text":"所以我今天要講的"},{"start":5926.32,"end":5928.32,"text":"不是台灣"},{"start":5928.32,"end":5930.32,"text":"沒被看見"},{"start":5930.32,"end":5932.32,"text":"民進黨可能更擔心的是"},{"start":5932.32,"end":5934.32,"text":"民進黨沒有這筆文宣費"},{"start":5934.32,"end":5936.32,"text":"他就不被看見"},{"start":5936.32,"end":5938.32,"text":"而我們基本上就是要"},{"start":5938.32,"end":5940.32,"text":"嚴審煤炫費"},{"start":5940.32,"end":5942.32,"text":"我強調那句話"},{"start":5942.32,"end":5944.32,"text":"錢要用在刀口上"},{"start":5944.32,"end":5946.32,"text":"如果今天我們的部會首長都這麼能幹"},{"start":5946.32,"end":5948.32,"text":"可以把他的業務講的很好"},{"start":5948.32,"end":5950.32,"text":"我們何必要編煤炫費"},{"start":5950.32,"end":5952.32,"text":"而且這不是小錢"},{"start":5952.32,"end":5954.32,"text":"都是幾十億幾十億"},{"start":5954.32,"end":5956.32,"text":"還有更多的煤炫費"},{"start":5956.32,"end":5958.32,"text":"他是藏在各個"},{"start":5958.32,"end":5960.32,"text":"計畫項目裡面的"},{"start":5960.32,"end":5962.32,"text":"活動費用"},{"start":5962.32,"end":5964.32,"text":"如果真的把它撈出來"},{"start":5964.32,"end":5966.32,"text":"我告訴大家上百億"},{"start":5966.76,"end":5968.76,"text":"把這些錢省下來"},{"start":5968.76,"end":5970.76,"text":"我們去給真正的文化團體給他補助"},{"start":5970.76,"end":5972.76,"text":"難道不好嗎"},{"start":5973.51,"end":5975.51,"text":"我今天就是論"},{"start":5975.51,"end":5977.51,"text":"在談這件事情"},{"start":5977.51,"end":5979.51,"text":"所以我們回歸到"},{"start":5980.55,"end":5982.55,"text":"民眾黨團提的"},{"start":5982.55,"end":5984.55,"text":"通案刪減理由"},{"start":5984.55,"end":5986.55,"text":"我非常支持"},{"start":5986.55,"end":5988.55,"text":"除此之外我還提議"},{"start":5988.55,"end":5990.55,"text":"如果待會可以談到"},{"start":5990.55,"end":5992.55,"text":"有關於特別費的刪除的話"},{"start":5992.55,"end":5994.55,"text":"第一我非常支持現在特別費的刪除"},{"start":5994.55,"end":5996.55,"text":"但是我認為說可能還少了幾個機關"},{"start":5996.55,"end":5998.55,"text":"應該要加上去"},{"start":5998.55,"end":6000.55,"text":"教育部長的特別費"},{"start":6000.55,"end":6002.55,"text":"還有中研院院長特別費"},{"start":6002.55,"end":6004.55,"text":"我建議應該要全數刪除"},{"start":6004.55,"end":6006.55,"text":"以上"},{"start":6010.05,"end":6012.05,"text":"我們三個黨團第一輪發言已經發言完畢"},{"start":6012.05,"end":6014.05,"text":"我現在請行政部門表達意見"},{"start":6014.05,"end":6016.05,"text":"麻煩請陳主計長發言"},{"start":6016.05,"end":6018.05,"text":"然後張秘書長請準備"},{"start":6022.21,"end":6024.21,"text":"好 秘書長也請準備"},{"start":6024.12,"end":6026.12,"text":"好 是 院長"},{"start":6026.12,"end":6028.12,"text":"我是把近年來"},{"start":6028.12,"end":6030.12,"text":"通案刪減的情形"},{"start":6030.12,"end":6032.12,"text":"做一個說明"},{"start":6032.12,"end":6034.12,"text":"那近年來總預算刪減"},{"start":6034.12,"end":6036.12,"text":"是114年除外"},{"start":6036.12,"end":6038.12,"text":"大部分都是刪減的比例"},{"start":6038.12,"end":6040.12,"text":"都是介在1.1到1.2"},{"start":6040.12,"end":6042.12,"text":"那113年"},{"start":6042.12,"end":6044.12,"text":"他又會特別"},{"start":6044.12,"end":6046.12,"text":"減掉扣除"},{"start":6046.12,"end":6048.12,"text":"譬如說撥補勞保基金的部分"},{"start":6048.12,"end":6050.12,"text":"他會扣除"},{"start":6050.12,"end":6052.12,"text":"那114年度的情形"},{"start":6052.12,"end":6054.12,"text":"他本來是刪減2075億"},{"start":6054.12,"end":6056.12,"text":"那刪減率是6.62%"},{"start":6056.12,"end":6058.12,"text":"但是我們後來"},{"start":6058.12,"end":6060.12,"text":"又辦理追加"},{"start":6060.12,"end":6062.12,"text":"又辦理追加"},{"start":6062.12,"end":6064.12,"text":"所以回編了734億"},{"start":6064.12,"end":6066.12,"text":"所以排除"},{"start":6066.12,"end":6068.12,"text":"如果排除台電1000億"},{"start":6068.12,"end":6070.12,"text":"那大概刪減數是341億"},{"start":6070.12,"end":6072.12,"text":"以114年"},{"start":6072.12,"end":6074.12,"text":"那115年度的部分"},{"start":6074.12,"end":6076.12,"text":"我們是建議"},{"start":6076.12,"end":6078.12,"text":"如果說第一個要扣除的部分"},{"start":6078.12,"end":6080.12,"text":"是不是建議比照往例"},{"start":6080.12,"end":6082.12,"text":"第一個扣除勞保基金的部分"},{"start":6082.12,"end":6084.12,"text":"那第二個扣除那個"},{"start":6084.12,"end":6086.12,"text":"先行動資新興計畫"},{"start":6086.12,"end":6088.12,"text":"718億的一個部分"},{"start":6088.12,"end":6090.12,"text":"那這樣子的話"},{"start":6090.12,"end":6092.12,"text":"如果說以以往的基礎1.2來算"},{"start":6092.12,"end":6094.12,"text":"大概目標是341億"},{"start":6094.12,"end":6096.12,"text":"那至於各"},{"start":6096.12,"end":6098.12,"text":"科目刪減的比例"},{"start":6098.12,"end":6100.12,"text":"我們是說像一般"},{"start":6100.12,"end":6102.12,"text":"特別會、媒體宣導會"},{"start":6102.12,"end":6104.12,"text":"都高達60%"},{"start":6106.25,"end":6108.25,"text":"那個國內旅會也達到20%"},{"start":6108.25,"end":6110.25,"text":"那因為現在已經到7月"},{"start":6110.25,"end":6112.25,"text":"所以比例如果刪減過高"},{"start":6112.25,"end":6114.25,"text":"那就會影響到不回"},{"start":6114.25,"end":6116.25,"text":"他整個一個正常的運作"},{"start":6116.25,"end":6118.25,"text":"和計畫的一個執行"},{"start":6118.25,"end":6120.25,"text":"所以我們是建議"},{"start":6120.25,"end":6124.25,"text":"能夠是不是比照113年的刪減比例"},{"start":6124.25,"end":6126.25,"text":"例如說委辦會10%"},{"start":6126.25,"end":6128.25,"text":"降為5%"},{"start":6128.25,"end":6130.25,"text":"國外旅會60%"},{"start":6130.25,"end":6132.25,"text":"能不能降為5%"},{"start":6132.25,"end":6134.25,"text":"還有那個媒體宣導"},{"start":6134.25,"end":6136.25,"text":"60%是不是降為25%"},{"start":6136.25,"end":6138.25,"text":"一般事務會是10%"},{"start":6138.25,"end":6140.25,"text":"降為3%"},{"start":6140.25,"end":6142.25,"text":"那國內旅會是不是能夠不刪"},{"start":6142.25,"end":6144.25,"text":"以上一個建議"},{"start":6144.25,"end":6146.25,"text":"謝謝陳主委長"},{"start":6146.25,"end":6148.25,"text":"監察院黃兵長先好嗎"},{"start":6148.25,"end":6150.25,"text":"行政院張兵長請稍待"},{"start":6150.25,"end":6152.25,"text":"謝謝院長以及各黨團協商代表委員"},{"start":6152.25,"end":6154.25,"text":"黃市委在這邊代表監察院"},{"start":6154.25,"end":6156.25,"text":"向這個協商會議報告"},{"start":6156.25,"end":6158.25,"text":"這次民眾黨黨團"},{"start":6158.25,"end":6160.25,"text":"提案國外旅費及出國教育訓練"},{"start":6160.25,"end":6162.25,"text":"的部分監察院"},{"start":6162.25,"end":6164.25,"text":"全數刪除"},{"start":6164.25,"end":6166.25,"text":"這邊要特別說明"},{"start":6166.25,"end":6168.25,"text":"今年的下半年"},{"start":6168.25,"end":6170.25,"text":"監察院有兩個非常重要的國際組織"},{"start":6170.25,"end":6172.25,"text":"要去參與"},{"start":6172.25,"end":6174.25,"text":"這是監察院花了非常大力氣"},{"start":6174.25,"end":6176.25,"text":"好不容易突破封鎖"},{"start":6176.25,"end":6178.25,"text":"奮力爭取到的"},{"start":6178.25,"end":6180.25,"text":"兩個國際組織"},{"start":6180.25,"end":6182.25,"text":"成為正式的會員以及觀察員"},{"start":6182.25,"end":6184.25,"text":"這目的是要讓世界看見台灣"},{"start":6184.25,"end":6186.25,"text":"其中一個是"},{"start":6186.25,"end":6188.25,"text":"國際監察組織IoI裡面的"},{"start":6188.25,"end":6190.25,"text":"一比例每週監察會"},{"start":6190.25,"end":6192.25,"text":"這是我們正式的名稱"},{"start":6192.25,"end":6194.25,"text":"已經是我們的正式會員了"},{"start":6194.25,"end":6196.25,"text":"這個如果今年"},{"start":6196.25,"end":6198.25,"text":"在11月份的阿根廷"},{"start":6198.25,"end":6200.25,"text":"的大會我們沒辦法去參加的話"},{"start":6200.25,"end":6202.25,"text":"可能也會"},{"start":6202.25,"end":6204.25,"text":"在國際上面影響到"},{"start":6204.25,"end":6206.25,"text":"我們的會籍等等相關的"},{"start":6206.25,"end":6208.25,"text":"所以對我們的這個"},{"start":6208.25,"end":6210.25,"text":"會籍的影響非常的重大"},{"start":6210.25,"end":6212.25,"text":"另外一個是國家人權委員會"},{"start":6212.25,"end":6214.25,"text":"也自112年起"},{"start":6214.25,"end":6216.25,"text":"也以觀察員的身份"},{"start":6216.25,"end":6218.25,"text":"出席這個會議"},{"start":6218.25,"end":6220.25,"text":"也以觀察員的身份出席了"},{"start":6220.25,"end":6222.25,"text":"亞太地區國家人權機構論壇"},{"start":6222.25,"end":6224.25,"text":"我們稱為APF"},{"start":6224.25,"end":6226.25,"text":"這個APF在12月4號"},{"start":6226.25,"end":6228.25,"text":"在約旦召開"},{"start":6228.25,"end":6230.25,"text":"這個國際人權組織裡面"},{"start":6230.25,"end":6232.25,"text":"它是一個非常重大的"},{"start":6232.25,"end":6234.25,"text":"重要的亞太地區的"},{"start":6234.25,"end":6236.25,"text":"國家人權的機構的團隊"},{"start":6236.25,"end":6238.25,"text":"這個團隊對我們"},{"start":6238.25,"end":6240.25,"text":"在國家我們好不容易"},{"start":6240.25,"end":6242.25,"text":"建立起了一個國家人權的"},{"start":6242.25,"end":6244.25,"text":"世界的一個聲望"},{"start":6244.25,"end":6246.25,"text":"以及這個聲明"},{"start":6246.25,"end":6248.25,"text":"我們相信啦"},{"start":6248.25,"end":6250.25,"text":"在未來有必要讓我們再去參加"},{"start":6250.25,"end":6252.25,"text":"這個部分也要特別的"},{"start":6252.25,"end":6254.25,"text":"向大會來說明"},{"start":6254.25,"end":6256.25,"text":"另外呢以往參加這個會議"},{"start":6256.25,"end":6258.25,"text":"都是由我們的院長或副院長帶隊"},{"start":6258.25,"end":6260.25,"text":"也請保留"},{"start":6260.25,"end":6262.25,"text":"讓我們的院長副院長相關的"},{"start":6262.25,"end":6264.25,"text":"出國費用能夠保留"},{"start":6264.25,"end":6266.25,"text":"讓我們能夠由院長或副院長"},{"start":6266.25,"end":6268.25,"text":"來帶隊出席相關的會議"},{"start":6268.25,"end":6270.25,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":6270.25,"end":6272.25,"text":"謝謝黃秘書長"},{"start":6272.25,"end":6274.25,"text":"很清楚二要的說明非常感謝"},{"start":6274.25,"end":6276.25,"text":"請新任張秘書長請"},{"start":6276.45,"end":6278.45,"text":"謝謝院長謝謝各黨的委員們"},{"start":6278.45,"end":6282.45,"text":"因為民眾黨團的提案非常的多"},{"start":6282.45,"end":6284.45,"text":"所以容許我花一點時間說明"},{"start":6284.45,"end":6286.45,"text":"我相信在場很多委員先進"},{"start":6287.86,"end":6289.86,"text":"應該有一點既視感"},{"start":6290.19,"end":6292.19,"text":"去年2025年的中央政府總預算"},{"start":6292.19,"end":6294.19,"text":"是在紛紛擾擾當中"},{"start":6294.19,"end":6298.19,"text":"1月21號韓院長三讀通過"},{"start":6298.66,"end":6300.66,"text":"經過後面一段的社會的喧嘩"},{"start":6300.66,"end":6302.66,"text":"當時三讀通過"},{"start":6302.66,"end":6304.66,"text":"是刪除2075億"},{"start":6304.66,"end":6306.66,"text":"後來經過追加"},{"start":6306.66,"end":6308.66,"text":"最後刪除1341億"},{"start":6308.66,"end":6310.66,"text":"這1341億當中"},{"start":6310.66,"end":6312.66,"text":"如果扣除台電撥補的1000億"},{"start":6312.66,"end":6314.66,"text":"那最後刪除341億"},{"start":6314.66,"end":6316.66,"text":"這也是主計長剛剛所講的"},{"start":6316.66,"end":6318.66,"text":"大概是1.12%"},{"start":6324.26,"end":6326.26,"text":"第二"},{"start":6325.93,"end":6327.93,"text":"再過幾天就是8月了"},{"start":6327.93,"end":6329.93,"text":"今年已經過了60%"},{"start":6334.05,"end":6336.05,"text":"去年1341億"},{"start":6336.05,"end":6338.05,"text":"扣掉台電1000億是341億"},{"start":6338.05,"end":6340.05,"text":"如今民眾黨團卻要提出"},{"start":6340.05,"end":6342.05,"text":"刪除592億"},{"start":6344.39,"end":6346.39,"text":"去年1月審的預算"},{"start":6346.39,"end":6348.39,"text":"今年8月,快8月了還在審預算"},{"start":6349.22,"end":6351.22,"text":"要刪592億"},{"start":6351.22,"end":6353.22,"text":"照比例來講合理嗎"},{"start":6354.26,"end":6356.26,"text":"第三"},{"start":6357.35,"end":6359.35,"text":"今年已經過了60%了"},{"start":6360.52,"end":6362.52,"text":"民眾黨團體裡面"},{"start":6362.52,"end":6364.52,"text":"有5個案件"},{"start":6364.52,"end":6366.52,"text":"要通刪60%"},{"start":6366.52,"end":6368.52,"text":"合理嗎"},{"start":6368.52,"end":6370.52,"text":"已經過了60%"},{"start":6370.52,"end":6372.52,"text":"今年只剩40%的時間了"},{"start":6372.52,"end":6374.52,"text":"你們卻要刪除通刪60%"},{"start":6374.52,"end":6376.52,"text":"選署不合理"},{"start":6374.65,"end":6376.65,"text":"第四"},{"start":6376.65,"end":6378.65,"text":"就執行面來講"},{"start":6378.65,"end":6380.65,"text":"以去年來說"},{"start":6380.65,"end":6382.65,"text":"大陸旅費執行了48%"},{"start":6382.65,"end":6384.65,"text":"國外旅費執行了75.6%"},{"start":6384.65,"end":6386.65,"text":"出國教育訓練執行了62.4%"},{"start":6386.65,"end":6388.65,"text":"國內旅費執行了78.6%"},{"start":6388.65,"end":6390.65,"text":"這些如果都通刪60%"},{"start":6392.72,"end":6394.72,"text":"那麼行政部門沒有辦法執行"},{"start":6396.28,"end":6398.28,"text":"沒有辦法執行"},{"start":6398.28,"end":6402.28,"text":"尤其是我必須幫中央政府所有的公務員說一句公道話"},{"start":6402.28,"end":6404.28,"text":"國內旅費"},{"start":6404.28,"end":6406.28,"text":"它並不是在國內旅遊"},{"start":6406.28,"end":6408.28,"text":"是公務員到各地出差"},{"start":6408.28,"end":6410.28,"text":"他的出差費用"},{"start":6412.83,"end":6414.83,"text":"去年在立法院"},{"start":6414.83,"end":6416.83,"text":"韓院長最辛苦"},{"start":6416.83,"end":6418.83,"text":"折騰這麼久"},{"start":6418.83,"end":6420.83,"text":"刪了這麼多預算"},{"start":6420.83,"end":6422.83,"text":"最後國內旅費只刪了5.7%"},{"start":6423.67,"end":6425.67,"text":"那這個時候"},{"start":6425.67,"end":6427.67,"text":"如果又要再刪這麼多"},{"start":6427.67,"end":6429.67,"text":"是不是大家現在協商白忙一場"},{"start":6429.67,"end":6431.67,"text":"剩下沒幾天"},{"start":6431.67,"end":6433.67,"text":"就要8月底行政院"},{"start":6433.67,"end":6435.67,"text":"116年度的預算"},{"start":6435.73,"end":6437.73,"text":"籌編會議都已經開過了"},{"start":6437.73,"end":6439.73,"text":"昨天周一來秘書長"},{"start":6439.73,"end":6441.73,"text":"也來參與行政院的籌編會議了"},{"start":6441.73,"end":6443.73,"text":"是不是還要再花時間再追加回來呢"},{"start":6445.45,"end":6447.45,"text":"有必要這樣子對待辛苦的公務員嗎"},{"start":6449.86,"end":6451.86,"text":"第五 去年"},{"start":6452.73,"end":6454.73,"text":"經過追加預算之後"},{"start":6454.73,"end":6456.73,"text":"尾半費一般是務費"},{"start":6456.76,"end":6458.76,"text":"從歷年的3%到5%"},{"start":6458.76,"end":6460.76,"text":"去年最後追加回來"},{"start":6460.76,"end":6462.76,"text":"刪了6.8%到6.9%"},{"start":6462.76,"end":6464.76,"text":"軍事設備費"},{"start":6464.76,"end":6466.76,"text":"去年也在社會的壓力之下"},{"start":6469.21,"end":6473.21,"text":"從本來刪3%到變成最後刪0.3%"},{"start":6473.8,"end":6475.8,"text":"沒宣費"},{"start":6476.67,"end":6478.67,"text":"報告翁曉玲委員"},{"start":6479.27,"end":6483.27,"text":"媒體宣傳費還是需要透過專業來進行相關的宣傳"},{"start":6483.27,"end":6485.27,"text":"而且每一次的活動"},{"start":6485.27,"end":6487.27,"text":"相關的規劃"},{"start":6487.27,"end":6489.27,"text":"內容形態也都會不一樣"},{"start":6489.27,"end":6491.27,"text":"這一句話"},{"start":6491.27,"end":6493.27,"text":"是台北市議員林亮君"},{"start":6493.27,"end":6495.27,"text":"用您剛剛質詢的內容"},{"start":6495.27,"end":6497.27,"text":"去質詢蔣萬安市長"},{"start":6497.27,"end":6499.27,"text":"蔣萬安市長所講的"},{"start":6500.11,"end":6502.11,"text":"沒宣費"},{"start":6504.21,"end":6506.21,"text":"總共34個機關"},{"start":6506.21,"end":6508.21,"text":"單位"},{"start":6508.26,"end":6510.26,"text":"加總13.79億元"},{"start":6510.26,"end":6512.26,"text":"剛剛講幾十億"},{"start":6512.26,"end":6514.26,"text":"上百億"},{"start":6514.59,"end":6516.59,"text":"不是這個數字"},{"start":6516.72,"end":6518.72,"text":"34個機關單位"},{"start":6518.72,"end":6520.72,"text":"13.79億元"},{"start":6520.72,"end":6522.72,"text":"平均每一個機關"},{"start":6522.72,"end":6524.72,"text":"4000"},{"start":6525.05,"end":6527.05,"text":"57萬元"},{"start":6527.92,"end":6529.92,"text":"以我自己服務過的桃園市政府新聞處為例"},{"start":6533.46,"end":6535.46,"text":"今年新聞處"},{"start":6535.26,"end":6537.26,"text":"一個行銷科的預算"},{"start":6539.68,"end":6541.68,"text":"宣傳預算8774萬"},{"start":6543.36,"end":6545.36,"text":"是我剛剛講的一倍"},{"start":6547.16,"end":6549.16,"text":"地方政府可以"},{"start":6549.05,"end":6551.05,"text":"為什麼中央政府不可以"},{"start":6551.28,"end":6553.28,"text":"我都很支持也很贊成"},{"start":6553.28,"end":6555.28,"text":"錢要花在刀口上"},{"start":6555.28,"end":6557.28,"text":"但是拜託院長主持公道"},{"start":6557.28,"end":6559.28,"text":"各位委員"},{"start":6560.2,"end":6562.2,"text":"想想看現在的時間"},{"start":6562.2,"end":6564.2,"text":"今年已經過了60%了"},{"start":6565.25,"end":6567.25,"text":"難道還要再刪60%嗎"},{"start":6567.25,"end":6569.25,"text":"以上補充說明謝謝"},{"start":6569.79,"end":6571.79,"text":"好謝謝張秘書長的補充說明"},{"start":6571.79,"end":6573.79,"text":"我知道各位委員都要發言"},{"start":6573.79,"end":6575.79,"text":"但是第一輪黨團已經發言完畢了"},{"start":6575.79,"end":6577.79,"text":"行政部門"},{"start":6577.79,"end":6579.79,"text":"三個主要的機關"},{"start":6579.79,"end":6581.79,"text":"也做出了說明"},{"start":6582.16,"end":6584.16,"text":"現在很明顯沒辦法達成共識"},{"start":6585.11,"end":6587.11,"text":"非常明顯"},{"start":6586.29,"end":6588.29,"text":"再講"},{"start":6587.42,"end":6589.42,"text":"我知道我知道不要急"},{"start":6589.42,"end":6591.42,"text":"各位委員不要急"},{"start":6591.42,"end":6593.42,"text":"因為你講完 邱委員都要講"},{"start":6593.42,"end":6595.42,"text":"邱委員已經一直在舉手了"},{"start":6595.42,"end":6597.42,"text":"我還沒有點邱委員好不好"},{"start":6597.42,"end":6599.42,"text":"請把手放下來"},{"start":6597.43,"end":6599.43,"text":"我想第一點"},{"start":6599.25,"end":6601.25,"text":"我們沒有辦法達成共識"},{"start":6601.25,"end":6603.25,"text":"這第五案"},{"start":6602.81,"end":6604.81,"text":"要啦"},{"start":6604.81,"end":6606.81,"text":"後面還有一千多案"},{"start":6606.81,"end":6608.81,"text":"後面還有一千三百案"},{"start":6608.81,"end":6610.81,"text":"我們會回過頭來"},{"start":6610.81,"end":6612.81,"text":"我們一定會回過頭來"},{"start":6612.81,"end":6614.81,"text":"不用擔心"},{"start":6614.81,"end":6616.81,"text":"就像第四案一樣沒辦法達成共識"},{"start":6616.81,"end":6618.81,"text":"我們第二輪再來"},{"start":6618.81,"end":6620.81,"text":"可是我現在後面還有一千三百個案子"},{"start":6621.17,"end":6623.17,"text":"這個大家黨團幹不可以思考"},{"start":6623.17,"end":6625.17,"text":"而且這個下去以後"},{"start":6625.17,"end":6627.17,"text":"如果"},{"start":6628.62,"end":6630.62,"text":"我知道"},{"start":6630.62,"end":6632.62,"text":"報告院長最急的應該是行政院吧"},{"start":6632.62,"end":6634.62,"text":"他們這個預算被拖了三百多天"},{"start":6634.62,"end":6636.62,"text":"我先處置一個方式"},{"start":6636.62,"end":6638.62,"text":"我先宣告各黨團幹部來聽一下"},{"start":6638.69,"end":6640.69,"text":"如果各位認為不足的部分"},{"start":6640.69,"end":6642.69,"text":"會要補充你們再補充"},{"start":6644.66,"end":6646.66,"text":"台灣民眾黨團第五案"},{"start":6646.66,"end":6648.66,"text":"通案各黨團意見"},{"start":6648.66,"end":6650.66,"text":"沒辦法達成一致"},{"start":6650.66,"end":6652.66,"text":"請各黨團持續溝通"},{"start":6652.66,"end":6654.66,"text":"因為我們二輪要來"},{"start":6654.66,"end":6656.66,"text":"容我做以下宣告"},{"start":6656.66,"end":6658.66,"text":"為提升協商的效率"},{"start":6658.66,"end":6660.66,"text":"針對通案刪減的用途別項目"},{"start":6661.99,"end":6665.99,"text":"通三比例及總三減金額"},{"start":6665.99,"end":6667.99,"text":"我們先保留"},{"start":6668.58,"end":6670.58,"text":"讓各黨團針對通三本案"},{"start":6670.58,"end":6672.58,"text":"持續溝通"},{"start":6672.56,"end":6674.56,"text":"我們先進行後續"},{"start":6674.56,"end":6676.56,"text":"各委員會第一輪的協商"},{"start":6676.56,"end":6678.56,"text":"各委員會中的提案"},{"start":6678.56,"end":6680.56,"text":"涉及到通三項目者"},{"start":6680.56,"end":6682.56,"text":"我們就先"},{"start":6682.56,"end":6684.56,"text":"並通三來進行處理"},{"start":6686.23,"end":6688.23,"text":"以提升協商效率"},{"start":6688.23,"end":6690.23,"text":"這是第一個重點"},{"start":6690.23,"end":6692.23,"text":"第二個重點"},{"start":6692.23,"end":6694.23,"text":"各委員會第一輪之後"},{"start":6694.23,"end":6696.23,"text":"我們會召開第二輪"},{"start":6696.23,"end":6698.23,"text":"這個時候大家有什麼意見"},{"start":6698.23,"end":6700.23,"text":"我們再來研究"},{"start":6700.23,"end":6702.23,"text":"第三 我們現在要進行內政委員會"},{"start":6702.23,"end":6704.23,"text":"尤其是海洋委員會"},{"start":6704.23,"end":6706.23,"text":"他在高雄"},{"start":6706.23,"end":6708.23,"text":"他急著要趕回高雄"},{"start":6708.23,"end":6710.23,"text":"我們第一個要審海洋委員會"},{"start":6710.23,"end":6712.23,"text":"那我們現在開始進入內政委員會"},{"start":6716.25,"end":6718.25,"text":"那內政委員會因為"},{"start":6718.25,"end":6720.25,"text":"第一點在高雄"},{"start":6720.25,"end":6722.25,"text":"院長第一輪讓我發言一下"},{"start":6722.25,"end":6724.25,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":6724.25,"end":6726.25,"text":"不要急你們後續有什麼意見"},{"start":6726.25,"end":6728.25,"text":"第二輪我們再來好不好"},{"start":6728.25,"end":6730.25,"text":"謝謝主席總處"},{"start":6730.25,"end":6732.25,"text":"謝謝行政院監察委員會"},{"start":6732.25,"end":6734.25,"text":"主席有一個權宜問題"},{"start":6734.25,"end":6736.25,"text":"因為剛剛副總召污衊說"},{"start":6736.25,"end":6738.25,"text":"我講的教育部的預算"},{"start":6738.25,"end":6740.25,"text":"不在無人機裡面"},{"start":6740.25,"end":6742.25,"text":"可不可以請經濟部長回應一下"},{"start":6742.25,"end":6744.25,"text":"我們現在進入內政"},{"start":6744.25,"end":6746.25,"text":"可以簡單回應一下嗎"},{"start":6746.25,"end":6748.25,"text":"國務長謝謝請離席"},{"start":6748.25,"end":6750.25,"text":"因為我剛剛私下請問他"},{"start":6750.25,"end":6752.25,"text":"就是在這裡面還有花蓮的"},{"start":6752.25,"end":6754.25,"text":"馬太安的無人機"},{"start":6754.25,"end":6756.25,"text":"也被你們各部會都刪減"},{"start":6756.25,"end":6758.25,"text":"在這邊正告大家"},{"start":6758.25,"end":6760.25,"text":"不要隨便說什麼"},{"start":6760.25,"end":6762.25,"text":"我們進入海委會"},{"start":6761.81,"end":6763.81,"text":"呼叫羅廷瑋"},{"start":6763.81,"end":6765.81,"text":"呼叫羅廷瑋來"},{"start":6765.81,"end":6767.81,"text":"呼叫羅廷瑋"},{"start":6767.81,"end":6769.81,"text":"我們現在練習的是移民署"},{"start":6769.81,"end":6771.81,"text":"對不起"},{"start":6772.09,"end":6774.09,"text":"我們對齊海洋委員會"},{"start":6774.09,"end":6776.09,"text":"國安主任委員"},{"start":6776.09,"end":6778.09,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":6778.09,"end":6780.09,"text":"愛旭族的張副主任委員"},{"start":6780.63,"end":6782.63,"text":"是"},{"start":6782.06,"end":6784.06,"text":"保育署的陸署長"},{"start":6785.18,"end":6787.18,"text":"陸署長好謝謝"},{"start":6787.86,"end":6789.86,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6792.49,"end":6794.49,"text":"好"},{"start":6798.63,"end":6800.63,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6801.42,"end":6803.42,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6819.2,"end":6821.2,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6849.2,"end":6851.2,"text":"我們現在就先說題"},{"start":6852.97,"end":6854.97,"text":"信委會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":6854.97,"end":6856.97,"text":"請問國民黨團體有沒有意見"},{"start":6857.63,"end":6859.63,"text":"沒有意見"},{"start":6859.63,"end":6861.63,"text":"許甄委員在現場"},{"start":6861.63,"end":6863.63,"text":"我們就病委會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":6863.63,"end":6865.63,"text":"我們進入342案"},{"start":6865.63,"end":6867.63,"text":"許甄委員所提"},{"start":6868.41,"end":6870.41,"text":"業務費2億9千3百94萬6千元"},{"start":6870.41,"end":6872.41,"text":"我們病委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":6875.87,"end":6877.87,"text":"許甄委員在現場"},{"start":6877.87,"end":6879.87,"text":"342案"},{"start":6880.53,"end":6882.53,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":6882.53,"end":6884.53,"text":"這一案就是海委會那邊已經有來溝通過了"},{"start":6884.53,"end":6886.53,"text":"所以就是病委員會的動結束"},{"start":6886.53,"end":6888.53,"text":"好謝謝許甄委員的發言"},{"start":6888.53,"end":6890.53,"text":"我們進入一般行政第一幕"},{"start":6890.53,"end":6892.53,"text":"343案"},{"start":6892.53,"end":6894.53,"text":"政天才委員所提"},{"start":6897.38,"end":6899.38,"text":"請"},{"start":6898.6,"end":6900.6,"text":"2億9千9百6千3千元"},{"start":6900.6,"end":6902.6,"text":"病委員會決議"},{"start":6902.6,"end":6904.6,"text":"辦理文字修正"},{"start":6904.6,"end":6906.6,"text":"政天才委員所提不在現場"},{"start":6906.6,"end":6908.6,"text":"國民黨團體沒有意見"},{"start":6908.6,"end":6910.6,"text":"我們病委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":6910.6,"end":6912.6,"text":"進入344案"},{"start":6915.37,"end":6917.37,"text":"國民黨政天才委員所提"},{"start":6917.37,"end":6919.37,"text":"刪減"},{"start":6920.65,"end":6922.65,"text":"改組決議"},{"start":6922.65,"end":6924.65,"text":"我們改組決議"},{"start":6924.65,"end":6926.65,"text":"345案"},{"start":6926.65,"end":6928.65,"text":"政天才委員所提"},{"start":6928.65,"end":6930.65,"text":"病委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":6930.65,"end":6932.65,"text":"國民黨團體沒有意見"},{"start":6932.65,"end":6934.65,"text":"好我們進入346案"},{"start":6934.65,"end":6936.65,"text":"海洋業務"},{"start":6938.12,"end":6940.12,"text":"跟院長還有跟各位委員報告"},{"start":6940.12,"end":6942.12,"text":"這個案"},{"start":6942.12,"end":6944.12,"text":"台灣民眾黨團陳昭之委員提案"},{"start":6944.12,"end":6946.12,"text":"請台灣民眾黨團請表達意見"},{"start":6949.43,"end":6951.43,"text":"好這個案子"},{"start":6951.43,"end":6953.43,"text":"由我們台灣民眾黨團"},{"start":6953.43,"end":6955.43,"text":"來提案"},{"start":6955.43,"end":6957.43,"text":"那就是凍結"},{"start":6957.43,"end":6959.43,"text":"500萬"},{"start":6959.43,"end":6961.43,"text":"就凍結500萬"},{"start":6961.43,"end":6963.43,"text":"那請我們海洋委員會"},{"start":6963.43,"end":6965.43,"text":"能夠"},{"start":6965.43,"end":6967.43,"text":"比照我們國防部"},{"start":6967.43,"end":6969.43,"text":"針對我們的"},{"start":6969.43,"end":6971.43,"text":"同仁這個專業的"},{"start":6971.43,"end":6973.43,"text":"一個加級"},{"start":6973.43,"end":6975.43,"text":"能夠來提升"},{"start":6975.43,"end":6977.43,"text":"這是一個對我們"},{"start":6977.43,"end":6979.43,"text":"海洋委員會的一個"},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併委員會 好不好"},{"start":7146.11,"end":7148.11,"text":"終結一事就併委員會"},{"start":7148.47,"end":7150.47,"text":"OK 好 我們同意"},{"start":7152.43,"end":7154.43,"text":"我們346案"},{"start":7154.43,"end":7156.43,"text":"347案"},{"start":7156.43,"end":7158.43,"text":"經過協調達成共識"},{"start":7158.43,"end":7160.43,"text":"我們併委員會審查動結束"},{"start":7161.83,"end":7163.83,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":7165.02,"end":7167.02,"text":"348"},{"start":7167.02,"end":7169.02,"text":"國民黨團黃仁所提"},{"start":7169.02,"end":7171.02,"text":"併委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":7171.02,"end":7173.02,"text":"國民黨團要不要補充意見"},{"start":7173.02,"end":7175.02,"text":"好 進入349"},{"start":7175.02,"end":7177.02,"text":"賴世保委員所提改"},{"start":7177.02,"end":7179.02,"text":"減列50萬元"},{"start":7179.02,"end":7181.02,"text":"那個管主委請表達意見"},{"start":7181.02,"end":7183.02,"text":"是 這個事情"},{"start":7183.02,"end":7185.02,"text":"我們經過溝通以後"},{"start":7185.02,"end":7187.02,"text":"我們可以接手 那也得到了"},{"start":7187.02,"end":7189.02,"text":"委員的簽字同意"},{"start":7189.02,"end":7191.02,"text":"我們就減列50萬元"},{"start":7191.02,"end":7193.02,"text":"349萬 350"},{"start":7193.02,"end":7195.02,"text":"353 黃仁委員所提"},{"start":7195.02,"end":7197.02,"text":"併委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":7197.34,"end":7199.34,"text":"各位委員沒意見"},{"start":7199.34,"end":7201.34,"text":"好 謝謝 我們進入351案"},{"start":7201.34,"end":7203.34,"text":"賴世保委員所提改減列50萬元"},{"start":7203.34,"end":7205.34,"text":"海洋業務"},{"start":7205.34,"end":7207.34,"text":"海域安全 管主委請表達意見"},{"start":7207.34,"end":7209.34,"text":"是 謝謝"},{"start":7209.34,"end":7211.34,"text":"這個案子也跟委員達成了共識以後"},{"start":7211.34,"end":7213.34,"text":"委員有簽字同意"},{"start":7213.34,"end":7215.34,"text":"好 我們減列50萬元"},{"start":7215.34,"end":7217.34,"text":"351案"},{"start":7217.34,"end":7219.34,"text":"352案 黃仁委員所提"},{"start":7219.34,"end":7221.34,"text":"併委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":7221.34,"end":7223.34,"text":"國民黨團有意見嗎"},{"start":7223.34,"end":7225.34,"text":"沒意見 好 我們進入353案"},{"start":7226.75,"end":7228.75,"text":"文字有修正通過"},{"start":7228.75,"end":7230.75,"text":"徐新宜委員所提"},{"start":7230.75,"end":7232.75,"text":"我們現在進入海洋委員會海巡署所屬"},{"start":7232.75,"end":7234.75,"text":"稅出部分"},{"start":7234.75,"end":7236.75,"text":"第二項海巡署所屬"},{"start":7236.75,"end":7238.75,"text":"第一幕一般行政 354案"},{"start":7238.75,"end":7240.75,"text":"鄭天才委員所提改組決議"},{"start":7240.75,"end":7242.75,"text":"國民黨團有意見嗎"},{"start":7242.75,"end":7244.75,"text":"沒意見 改組決議"},{"start":7244.75,"end":7246.75,"text":"第二幕海巡業務355案"},{"start":7249.63,"end":7251.63,"text":"黃仁委員所提"},{"start":7251.63,"end":7253.63,"text":"併委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":7253.63,"end":7255.63,"text":"國民黨團有意見嗎"},{"start":7255.63,"end":7257.63,"text":"沒意見 356案 賴思寶委員所提"},{"start":7257.63,"end":7259.63,"text":"減列50萬元"},{"start":7259.63,"end":7261.63,"text":"海巡規劃及情報整理費用"},{"start":7261.63,"end":7263.63,"text":"請管主委表達意見"},{"start":7263.63,"end":7265.63,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":7265.63,"end":7267.63,"text":"各位委員 這個案子"},{"start":7267.63,"end":7269.63,"text":"有跟委員達成共識以後"},{"start":7269.63,"end":7271.63,"text":"減列50萬元 我們可以同意"},{"start":7271.63,"end":7273.63,"text":"好 謝謝 356案"},{"start":7273.63,"end":7275.63,"text":"減列50萬元"},{"start":7275.63,"end":7277.63,"text":"357案"},{"start":7277.63,"end":7279.63,"text":"海巡法委員所提改組決議"},{"start":7279.63,"end":7281.63,"text":"國民黨團有意見嗎"},{"start":7281.63,"end":7283.63,"text":"沒意見 好 進入358案"},{"start":7283.63,"end":7285.63,"text":"黃仁委員所提 併委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":7285.63,"end":7287.63,"text":"有意見嗎"},{"start":7287.63,"end":7289.63,"text":"沒意見 好 我們進入359案"},{"start":7289.63,"end":7291.63,"text":"台灣民眾黨團所提"},{"start":7291.63,"end":7293.63,"text":"測案"},{"start":7293.63,"end":7295.63,"text":"359案測案"},{"start":7295.63,"end":7297.63,"text":"我們現在進入海洋委員會"},{"start":7297.63,"end":7299.63,"text":"海洋保育署"},{"start":7299.63,"end":7301.63,"text":"稅出部分第三項"},{"start":7301.63,"end":7303.63,"text":"海洋保育署第二幕"},{"start":7303.63,"end":7305.63,"text":"海洋保育業務360案"},{"start":7305.63,"end":7307.63,"text":"賴世保委員所提改組決議"},{"start":7307.63,"end":7309.63,"text":"國民黨團有意見嗎"},{"start":7309.63,"end":7311.63,"text":"沒意見 改組決議"},{"start":7311.63,"end":7313.63,"text":"361案"},{"start":7313.63,"end":7315.63,"text":"林茜琪委員所提改組決議"},{"start":7315.63,"end":7317.63,"text":"有意見嗎 沒意見 改組決議"},{"start":7318.6,"end":7320.6,"text":"362案黃仁委員所提委員會"},{"start":7320.6,"end":7322.6,"text":"併委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":7322.6,"end":7324.6,"text":"國民黨團有意見嗎"},{"start":7324.6,"end":7326.6,"text":"沒意見"},{"start":7326.89,"end":7328.89,"text":"363案黃仁委員所提"},{"start":7328.89,"end":7330.89,"text":"併委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":7330.89,"end":7332.89,"text":"有意見嗎 沒意見"},{"start":7332.83,"end":7334.83,"text":"文字修正"},{"start":7334.83,"end":7336.83,"text":"364案賴世保委員所提改組決議"},{"start":7336.83,"end":7338.83,"text":"有意見嗎 沒意見 改組決議"},{"start":7338.83,"end":7340.83,"text":"365案賴世保委員所提改"},{"start":7340.83,"end":7342.83,"text":"減列150萬元"},{"start":7342.83,"end":7344.83,"text":"海洋污染防治清潔費"},{"start":7344.83,"end":7346.83,"text":"請管主委表達意見"},{"start":7346.83,"end":7348.83,"text":"謝謝院長 各位委員"},{"start":7348.83,"end":7350.83,"text":"就是說雖然真的是很忍痛"},{"start":7350.83,"end":7352.83,"text":"但是因為有跟委員"},{"start":7352.83,"end":7354.83,"text":"溝通了很久 最後跟委員"},{"start":7354.83,"end":7356.83,"text":"達成了這一個共識 所以"},{"start":7356.83,"end":7358.83,"text":"我們同意接受 謝謝"},{"start":7358.83,"end":7360.83,"text":"謝謝管主委忍痛接受"},{"start":7360.83,"end":7362.83,"text":"我們進入366案"},{"start":7362.83,"end":7364.83,"text":"徐信義委員所提"},{"start":7364.83,"end":7366.83,"text":"組決議文字修正"},{"start":7366.83,"end":7368.83,"text":"通過 我們進入"},{"start":7368.83,"end":7370.83,"text":"367案徐信義委員所提"},{"start":7370.83,"end":7372.83,"text":"組決議文字修正"},{"start":7372.83,"end":7374.83,"text":"好 大家這邊有意見"},{"start":7374.83,"end":7376.83,"text":"謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":7376.83,"end":7378.83,"text":"謝謝院長 謝謝各位"},{"start":7378.83,"end":7380.83,"text":"謝謝各位海洋委員會所列席官員"},{"start":7392.51,"end":7394.51,"text":"好 謝謝 我們進入行政院"},{"start":7394.51,"end":7396.51,"text":"院本部"},{"start":7408.71,"end":7410.71,"text":"謝謝張秘書長列席"},{"start":7410.71,"end":7412.71,"text":"我們進入行政院院本部"},{"start":7416.24,"end":7418.24,"text":"好 第"},{"start":7418.33,"end":7420.33,"text":"行政院稅出部分第二款"},{"start":7420.33,"end":7422.33,"text":"行政院主管第一項行政院"},{"start":7423.88,"end":7425.88,"text":"16億4715萬6千元"},{"start":7425.88,"end":7427.88,"text":"我們進入案號一"},{"start":7427.88,"end":7429.88,"text":"行政院"},{"start":7430.11,"end":7432.11,"text":"高金樹梅委員所提"},{"start":7432.11,"end":7434.11,"text":"簡列1000萬元"},{"start":7434.11,"end":7436.11,"text":"凍結1000萬元"},{"start":7438.23,"end":7440.23,"text":"第二案"},{"start":7440.23,"end":7442.23,"text":"高金樹梅所提凍結500萬元"},{"start":7443.88,"end":7445.88,"text":"請張秘書長表達意見 好嗎"},{"start":7445.88,"end":7447.88,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7447.51,"end":7449.51,"text":"好 謝謝院長 我兩案簡短說明"},{"start":7449.51,"end":7451.51,"text":"第一案也趁著這個機會"},{"start":7451.51,"end":7453.51,"text":"跟國人報告 115年底"},{"start":7453.51,"end":7455.51,"text":"基金餘額還有98.5億"},{"start":7455.51,"end":7457.51,"text":"那淨值還有32.7億"},{"start":7457.51,"end":7459.51,"text":"可用現金8.4億元"},{"start":7459.51,"end":7461.51,"text":"原民發展基金的現金流"},{"start":7461.51,"end":7463.51,"text":"跟存量都沒有問題"},{"start":7463.51,"end":7465.51,"text":"那明年度 因為中央政府總運聲"},{"start":7465.51,"end":7467.51,"text":"正在籌編當中 明年度的"},{"start":7467.51,"end":7469.51,"text":"這個撥補的金額會比今年還要多"},{"start":7469.51,"end":7471.51,"text":"那我們持續跟高金委員再進行溝通"},{"start":7471.51,"end":7473.51,"text":"那第二案的部分"},{"start":7473.51,"end":7475.51,"text":"也跟院長跟這個大院"},{"start":7475.51,"end":7477.51,"text":"報告 這個原民會"},{"start":7477.51,"end":7479.51,"text":"已經這個初步修正了"},{"start":7479.51,"end":7481.51,"text":"諮商取得原住民族部落"},{"start":7481.51,"end":7483.51,"text":"同意參與辦法"},{"start":7483.51,"end":7485.51,"text":"那預計三個月內完成相關的法制作業"},{"start":7485.51,"end":7487.51,"text":"但我們也會持續跟高金委員再溝通"},{"start":7487.51,"end":7489.51,"text":"那是不是可以請院長"},{"start":7489.51,"end":7491.51,"text":"或者是各黨團的代表同意"},{"start":7491.51,"end":7493.51,"text":"這個我們先保留"},{"start":7493.51,"end":7495.51,"text":"再來進行溝通"},{"start":7495.51,"end":7497.51,"text":"好的 我們保留第一案"},{"start":7497.51,"end":7499.51,"text":"第三案 媒體政策"},{"start":7499.51,"end":7501.51,"text":"及業務宣導費"},{"start":7501.51,"end":7503.51,"text":"1678萬"},{"start":7504.43,"end":7506.43,"text":"3 4 5 6"},{"start":7506.43,"end":7508.43,"text":"我們就進入通案"},{"start":7508.43,"end":7510.43,"text":"好 我們現在進入"},{"start":7511.67,"end":7513.67,"text":"我們現在進入第七案"},{"start":7513.67,"end":7515.67,"text":"首長特別費"},{"start":7515.67,"end":7517.67,"text":"我們現在進入通案"},{"start":7517.67,"end":7519.67,"text":"不好意思"},{"start":7519.67,"end":7521.67,"text":"不好意思 院長"},{"start":7521.67,"end":7523.67,"text":"我剛剛的第三案我沒有要"},{"start":7523.67,"end":7525.67,"text":"那個通案喔 我是要維持全刪喔"},{"start":7525.67,"end":7527.67,"text":"不是"},{"start":7527.67,"end":7529.67,"text":"我們現在已經先保留在通案裡面"},{"start":7529.67,"end":7531.67,"text":"我們現在已經先保留在通案裡面"},{"start":7531.67,"end":7533.67,"text":"我們現在已經先保留在通案裡面"},{"start":7533.67,"end":7535.67,"text":"二輪都在刪"},{"start":7535.67,"end":7537.67,"text":"還是在"},{"start":7537.67,"end":7539.67,"text":"還是在案子還在"},{"start":7539.67,"end":7541.67,"text":"一切"},{"start":7543.67,"end":7545.67,"text":"主要是我沒有要通案"},{"start":7545.67,"end":7547.67,"text":"通案"},{"start":7555.67,"end":7557.67,"text":"我沒有要併那個通案"},{"start":7559.85,"end":7561.85,"text":"我第三 因為我是全刪"},{"start":7566.31,"end":7568.31,"text":"那個我們第七案的業務費"},{"start":7568.31,"end":7570.31,"text":"365959萬3千元"},{"start":7570.31,"end":7572.31,"text":"國民黨團體"},{"start":7572.31,"end":7574.31,"text":"全數解列9月至12月的"},{"start":7574.31,"end":7576.31,"text":"業務費"},{"start":7576.31,"end":7578.31,"text":"以及院長特別費"},{"start":7578.31,"end":7580.31,"text":"院長特別費我們就列入通案了"},{"start":7580.31,"end":7582.31,"text":"現在正義業務費我們要喔"},{"start":7582.31,"end":7584.31,"text":"業務費要討論 請張秘書長請發言"},{"start":7586.9,"end":7588.9,"text":"謝謝院長喔"},{"start":7588.9,"end":7590.9,"text":"也請韓院長將心比心喔"},{"start":7590.9,"end":7592.9,"text":"我相信立法院也不會希望下半年的"},{"start":7592.9,"end":7594.9,"text":"業務費全數被刪除"},{"start":7594.9,"end":7596.9,"text":"那我這邊說明一下也跟各位委員報告"},{"start":7596.9,"end":7598.9,"text":"今年行政院的預算"},{"start":7598.9,"end":7600.9,"text":"總共16.4億元"},{"start":7602.39,"end":7604.39,"text":"扣除11.4億元的人事費"},{"start":7606.23,"end":7608.23,"text":"353萬元的獎補助費"},{"start":7608.23,"end":7610.23,"text":"設備投資1.3億"},{"start":7610.23,"end":7612.23,"text":"第一預備金380萬"},{"start":7612.23,"end":7614.23,"text":"等 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翁小田委員您同意"},{"start":8758.04,"end":8760.04,"text":"請"},{"start":8759.73,"end":8761.73,"text":"我要講就是我為什麼要刪減行政院"},{"start":8761.73,"end":8763.73,"text":"教育訓練費100萬"},{"start":8763.73,"end":8765.73,"text":"主要是因為它從112年到"},{"start":8765.73,"end":8767.73,"text":"114年我們去看它的執行率"},{"start":8767.73,"end":8769.73,"text":"112年編了"},{"start":8769.73,"end":8771.73,"text":"106萬"},{"start":8771.73,"end":8773.73,"text":"它實際上只用了29萬"},{"start":8773.73,"end":8775.73,"text":"執行率只有27%"},{"start":8775.73,"end":8777.73,"text":"13年也是"},{"start":8777.73,"end":8779.73,"text":"大概執行率85%"},{"start":8779.73,"end":8781.73,"text":"14年56.23%"},{"start":8781.73,"end":8783.73,"text":"也就是說其實它每年"},{"start":8783.73,"end":8785.73,"text":"都超編"},{"start":8785.73,"end":8787.73,"text":"今年它編了271萬"},{"start":8787.73,"end":8789.73,"text":"那事實上我"},{"start":8789.73,"end":8791.73,"text":"刪減100萬而且我還有"},{"start":8791.73,"end":8793.73,"text":"特別排除弱勢"},{"start":8793.73,"end":8795.73,"text":"要去進行災害防救"},{"start":8795.73,"end":8797.73,"text":"及國土安全以及消保"},{"start":8797.73,"end":8799.73,"text":"食安業務等兩個項目的話"},{"start":8799.73,"end":8801.73,"text":"基本上這個教育訓練費用我是"},{"start":8801.73,"end":8803.73,"text":"支持的其餘的部分"},{"start":8803.73,"end":8805.73,"text":"應該要減列100萬"},{"start":8805.73,"end":8807.73,"text":"那麼事實上我本來也是希望說"},{"start":8807.73,"end":8809.73,"text":"就併通三案但是他們看起來"},{"start":8809.73,"end":8811.73,"text":"他不願意所以既然如此的話我就堅持"},{"start":8811.73,"end":8813.73,"text":"要刪減100萬"},{"start":8813.73,"end":8815.73,"text":"好第九案保留我們進入第十案"},{"start":8815.73,"end":8817.73,"text":"發告院長有人舉手"},{"start":8820.71,"end":8822.71,"text":"他這個業務費從第七案第八案第九案"},{"start":8822.71,"end":8824.71,"text":"接下來你再看第十案十一案"},{"start":8824.71,"end":8826.71,"text":"我不知道你要怎麼主持下去"},{"start":8826.71,"end":8828.71,"text":"我是不是可以請主計"},{"start":8828.71,"end":8830.71,"text":"總長這邊講一下"},{"start":8830.71,"end":8832.71,"text":"這樣繼續刪下去的話"},{"start":8832.71,"end":8834.71,"text":"會不會又超刪"},{"start":8835.6,"end":8837.6,"text":"李柏藝委員的意思就是說"},{"start":8837.6,"end":8839.6,"text":"九八九這些全部十十一"},{"start":8839.6,"end":8841.6,"text":"十二十三十四"},{"start":8841.6,"end":8843.6,"text":"我是要說這個提案"},{"start":8843.6,"end":8845.6,"text":"有多荒謬啦"},{"start":8845.6,"end":8847.6,"text":"那為什麼這個提案會這麼荒謬"},{"start":8847.6,"end":8849.6,"text":"其實在委員會裡就沒有辦法"},{"start":8849.6,"end":8851.6,"text":"繼續審下去嘛因為沒有"},{"start":8851.6,"end":8853.6,"text":"一件案子要好好的聽行政當委"},{"start":8853.6,"end":8855.6,"text":"講而且"},{"start":8855.6,"end":8857.6,"text":"在審這個案子的時候那個時候"},{"start":8857.6,"end":8859.6,"text":"在委員會的時候是五月份六月份"},{"start":8859.6,"end":8861.6,"text":"的時候現在已經是七月"},{"start":8861.6,"end":8863.6,"text":"二十九號理論上"},{"start":8863.6,"end":8865.6,"text":"今年度已經過了快七個月"},{"start":8865.6,"end":8867.6,"text":"那可能在刪讀之後"},{"start":8867.6,"end":8869.6,"text":"可能是八個月依照"},{"start":8869.6,"end":8871.6,"text":"這個邏輯下去講"},{"start":8871.6,"end":8873.6,"text":"下去刪的話請問"},{"start":8873.6,"end":8875.6,"text":"行政院會不會花超過"},{"start":8875.6,"end":8877.6,"text":"請問主計總處我們現在"},{"start":8877.6,"end":8879.6,"text":"怎麼辦那如果萬一"},{"start":8879.6,"end":8881.6,"text":"有超刪或者是花超過"},{"start":8881.6,"end":8883.6,"text":"的部分誰要負責任"},{"start":8883.6,"end":8885.6,"text":"是因為立法院刪的比較慢"},{"start":8885.6,"end":8887.6,"text":"是因為立法院審的比較慢要負責任"},{"start":8887.6,"end":8889.6,"text":"還是行政院你花"},{"start":8889.6,"end":8891.6,"text":"多了要負責任到底誰要負責"},{"start":8891.6,"end":8893.6,"text":"要公務人員負責任嗎"},{"start":8893.6,"end":8895.6,"text":"我覺得這樣是非常非常不合理的"},{"start":8895.6,"end":8897.6,"text":"做法喔謝謝院長一定要請"},{"start":8897.6,"end":8899.6,"text":"主計總長講一下我這是在"},{"start":8899.6,"end":8901.6,"text":"二輪提案我不是在一輪提案"},{"start":8901.6,"end":8903.6,"text":"所以一輪很順利就是"},{"start":8903.6,"end":8905.6,"text":"因為你二輪來就爆炸了"},{"start":8905.6,"end":8907.6,"text":"嘛"},{"start":8907.6,"end":8909.6,"text":"沒有刀過沒一樣都不一樣"},{"start":8909.6,"end":8911.6,"text":"你們反而是"},{"start":8911.6,"end":8913.6,"text":"恐嚇我大部長的"},{"start":8913.6,"end":8915.6,"text":"你說二輪提案件嘛"},{"start":8915.6,"end":8917.6,"text":"立法委員像流氓這樣講話嗎"},{"start":8917.6,"end":8919.6,"text":"沒問題好謝謝大家"},{"start":8919.6,"end":8921.6,"text":"怎麼可以人身攻擊呢"},{"start":8921.6,"end":8923.6,"text":"大家不要急"},{"start":8923.6,"end":8925.6,"text":"主計長你等一下稍微說明一下"},{"start":8925.6,"end":8927.6,"text":"讓我容許我先"},{"start":8927.6,"end":8929.6,"text":"裁決一下宣告一下"},{"start":8929.6,"end":8931.6,"text":"第九案到第十四案"},{"start":8931.6,"end":8933.6,"text":"全部業務費"},{"start":8933.6,"end":8935.6,"text":"顯然沒有辦法達成公司我們就保留"},{"start":8935.6,"end":8937.6,"text":"第十五案料先詳委員改主決議"},{"start":8937.6,"end":8939.6,"text":"這個沒問題"},{"start":8939.6,"end":8941.6,"text":"民事長你先來我先念完後面"},{"start":8941.6,"end":8943.6,"text":"第十六案到第二十案"},{"start":8943.6,"end":8945.6,"text":"都是通案"},{"start":8945.6,"end":8947.6,"text":"好不好大致上就是這樣"},{"start":8947.6,"end":8949.6,"text":"那接下來主計長您要補充嗎"},{"start":8949.6,"end":8951.6,"text":"請"},{"start":8952.61,"end":8956.61,"text":"行政院這裡的他的業務會是3.65億"},{"start":8956.61,"end":8958.61,"text":"那現在3.4要3.4.3億"},{"start":8958.61,"end":8960.61,"text":"那就是超過他"},{"start":8960.61,"end":8962.61,"text":"民事長講過了對"},{"start":8962.61,"end":8964.61,"text":"民事長請補充"},{"start":8965.18,"end":8967.18,"text":"雖然院長剛才已經裁決說"},{"start":8967.18,"end":8969.18,"text":"那幾案並通案"},{"start":8969.18,"end":8971.18,"text":"可是我要針對第十案"},{"start":8971.18,"end":8973.18,"text":"十二案補充說明一下"},{"start":8973.18,"end":8975.18,"text":"在其他業務租金的部分"},{"start":8975.18,"end":8977.18,"text":"這個主要是租賃辦公室"},{"start":8977.18,"end":8979.18,"text":"這個影印設備等等的使用"},{"start":8979.18,"end":8981.18,"text":"第一個"},{"start":8982.36,"end":8984.36,"text":"今年度的預算"},{"start":8984.36,"end":8988.36,"text":"其實只較2025年追加後的法律預算多10%"},{"start":8988.36,"end":8992.36,"text":"那第二個也不如委員所提案中所稱的"},{"start":8992.36,"end":8994.36,"text":"2025年尤其去年並沒有超支"},{"start":8994.36,"end":8996.36,"text":"執行率是99.2%"},{"start":8996.36,"end":8998.36,"text":"那第三個也是重點"},{"start":8998.36,"end":9000.36,"text":"跟院長跟大院報告"},{"start":9000.36,"end":9002.36,"text":"這項業務租金截至六月"},{"start":9002.36,"end":9004.36,"text":"截至六月也就是上個月"},{"start":9004.36,"end":9006.36,"text":"已經執行了1410萬"},{"start":9008.14,"end":9012.14,"text":"如果這個按照提案刪除660萬"},{"start":9012.41,"end":9014.41,"text":"則剩下1318萬"},{"start":9015.31,"end":9017.31,"text":"還不得流用不得雲之"},{"start":9017.31,"end":9019.31,"text":"那我真的不知道這個錢該怎麼辦"},{"start":9019.31,"end":9021.31,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":9021.31,"end":9023.31,"text":"好 民事長謝謝"},{"start":9023.31,"end":9025.31,"text":"那各位如果要發言請針對我剛才宣告之後"},{"start":9025.31,"end":9027.31,"text":"大家有什麼寶貴言請表達"},{"start":9027.31,"end":9029.31,"text":"我再宣告一次喔"},{"start":9029.31,"end":9031.31,"text":"第九案到第十四案我們就保留"},{"start":9031.31,"end":9033.31,"text":"十五案改主決議"},{"start":9033.31,"end":9035.31,"text":"第十六案到第二十案是通案"},{"start":9035.31,"end":9037.31,"text":"二十一案改為主決議"},{"start":9040.29,"end":9042.29,"text":"二十二案這個業務費減650萬"},{"start":9042.29,"end":9044.29,"text":"等一下我們會來"},{"start":9044.29,"end":9046.29,"text":"也是一樣我們就保留了"},{"start":9046.29,"end":9048.29,"text":"因為也是業務費沒關係"},{"start":9048.29,"end":9050.29,"text":"等一下你會發言"},{"start":9050.29,"end":9052.29,"text":"二十三案二十四案還是一樣列入通案"},{"start":9052.29,"end":9054.29,"text":"好我現在已經宣告完畢了"},{"start":9054.29,"end":9056.29,"text":"那現在委員請發言"},{"start":9056.29,"end":9058.29,"text":"我一直想講一句話而已喔"},{"start":9058.29,"end":9060.29,"text":"因為這個張秘書長一直重複的講說"},{"start":9060.29,"end":9062.29,"text":"預算已經什麼三百多天啊"},{"start":9062.29,"end":9064.29,"text":"好像這是立法院的過錯一樣"},{"start":9064.29,"end":9066.29,"text":"明明"},{"start":9067.29,"end":9069.29,"text":"培元麻煩尊重"},{"start":9069.29,"end":9071.29,"text":"明明去年喔如果這樣講"},{"start":9071.29,"end":9073.29,"text":"去年我們四月六月就通過軍人加薪"},{"start":9073.29,"end":9075.29,"text":"通過警消人士"},{"start":9075.29,"end":9077.29,"text":"條例法院的"},{"start":9077.29,"end":9079.29,"text":"法案而且已經依法公告了"},{"start":9079.29,"end":9081.29,"text":"他們只想到政府可能會"},{"start":9081.29,"end":9083.29,"text":"沒有錢用他們都不想到"},{"start":9083.29,"end":9085.29,"text":"百姓軍人加薪警消退休"},{"start":9085.29,"end":9087.29,"text":"人員的錢會沒有錢用家裡"},{"start":9087.29,"end":9089.29,"text":"會掀不起鍋是不是"},{"start":9089.29,"end":9091.29,"text":"如果你們真的在乎你們錢過的"},{"start":9091.29,"end":9093.29,"text":"時間你們會沒錢用你們就應該"},{"start":9093.29,"end":9095.29,"text":"很早就要來溝通這兩個法案而且"},{"start":9095.29,"end":9097.29,"text":"就應該去執行"},{"start":9097.29,"end":9099.29,"text":"應該依法去執行你現在告訴我"},{"start":9099.29,"end":9101.29,"text":"說我們要依法執行這些業務費用"},{"start":9101.29,"end":9103.29,"text":"誰要負這些責任我跟你講誰要負這些責任"},{"start":9103.29,"end":9105.29,"text":"誰公告法案以後沒有"},{"start":9105.29,"end":9107.29,"text":"去執行這些人就應該負責任"},{"start":9107.29,"end":9109.29,"text":"這個就是因果就是他們造成的"},{"start":9109.29,"end":9111.29,"text":"因所以這個法案"},{"start":9111.29,"end":9113.29,"text":"的慢不是立法院審查"},{"start":9113.29,"end":9115.29,"text":"預算的慢不是因為立法院實際"},{"start":9115.29,"end":9117.29,"text":"就是因為行政院嘛"},{"start":9117.48,"end":9119.48,"text":"所以我這件事情就不用一直再重複"},{"start":9119.48,"end":9121.48,"text":"已經過了多少天啊說多少錢沒有用啊"},{"start":9121.48,"end":9123.48,"text":"什麼過去過不了啊什麼誰要來負責任"},{"start":9123.48,"end":9125.48,"text":"就是行政院要負責任公告"},{"start":9125.48,"end":9127.48,"text":"的法案就是要做嘛就這樣子"},{"start":9127.48,"end":9129.48,"text":"後面就不用一直重複了"},{"start":9129.48,"end":9131.48,"text":"好范雲雯舉了三次手范雲雯請發言"},{"start":9131.48,"end":9133.48,"text":"我想因為陳玉真講"},{"start":9133.48,"end":9135.48,"text":"這樣的話非常的違反"},{"start":9135.48,"end":9137.48,"text":"我們的憲法雖然他剛剛宣稱他"},{"start":9137.48,"end":9139.48,"text":"憲法100分我看起來應該是0分"},{"start":9139.48,"end":9141.48,"text":"憲法就規定"},{"start":9141.48,"end":9143.48,"text":"行政院編"},{"start":9143.48,"end":9145.48,"text":"預算立法院審"},{"start":9145.48,"end":9147.48,"text":"預算那你基本上"},{"start":9147.48,"end":9149.48,"text":"你們的法案基本上就"},{"start":9149.48,"end":9151.48,"text":"等於是公告了實質的預算"},{"start":9151.48,"end":9153.48,"text":"而且剛剛國語情委員"},{"start":9153.48,"end":9155.48,"text":"在休息的時候就已經告訴大家國防部"},{"start":9155.48,"end":9157.48,"text":"都有為軍人"},{"start":9157.48,"end":9159.48,"text":"加薪你們的版本"},{"start":9159.48,"end":9161.48,"text":"基本上違反了加薪"},{"start":9161.48,"end":9163.48,"text":"應該要的原則會造成"},{"start":9163.48,"end":9165.48,"text":"你們就是不做嘛是不是"},{"start":9165.48,"end":9167.48,"text":"領導上的困難"},{"start":9167.9,"end":9169.9,"text":"郭立雄部長都講過法律"},{"start":9169.9,"end":9171.9,"text":"法案通過就是要做已經公告一年多了"},{"start":9171.9,"end":9173.9,"text":"有違憲的法案通過"},{"start":9173.9,"end":9175.9,"text":"用多數暴力"},{"start":9175.9,"end":9177.9,"text":"誰決定是違憲我們要講清楚"},{"start":9177.9,"end":9179.9,"text":"憲法法權被人搞成現在"},{"start":9179.9,"end":9181.9,"text":"所以憲法法庭還沒決議"},{"start":9181.9,"end":9183.9,"text":"該不該執行預算"},{"start":9183.9,"end":9185.9,"text":"也是你們說就該"},{"start":9185.9,"end":9187.9,"text":"要講執行預算不可以插嘴"},{"start":9187.9,"end":9189.9,"text":"為什麼他可以插嘴"},{"start":9189.9,"end":9191.9,"text":"每一個委員都可以插嘴"},{"start":9191.9,"end":9193.9,"text":"我真要建議他"},{"start":9193.9,"end":9195.9,"text":"麻煩尊重法院委員的發言"},{"start":9195.9,"end":9197.9,"text":"謝謝方英文的發言"},{"start":9197.9,"end":9199.9,"text":"郭立雄委員請發言"},{"start":9200.15,"end":9202.15,"text":"好我剛剛其實在休息的時候我已經講過了"},{"start":9202.15,"end":9204.15,"text":"所以從整個過去"},{"start":9204.15,"end":9206.15,"text":"我們看到在這個"},{"start":9206.15,"end":9208.15,"text":"國軍近年來的待遇跟這個"},{"start":9208.15,"end":9210.15,"text":"加薪調整的部分其實"},{"start":9210.15,"end":9212.15,"text":"已經是非常的頻繁了喔"},{"start":9212.15,"end":9214.15,"text":"那從2024年2025年"},{"start":9214.15,"end":9216.15,"text":"接連調薪以外行政院也在"},{"start":9216.15,"end":9218.15,"text":"2026年的7月我們"},{"start":9218.15,"end":9220.15,"text":"拍板了最新的方案"},{"start":9220.15,"end":9222.15,"text":"那預告就是在2026年的7月1號起"},{"start":9222.15,"end":9224.15,"text":"軍公教的專業加給"},{"start":9224.15,"end":9226.15,"text":"跟主管職務的加給"},{"start":9226.15,"end":9228.15,"text":"要定額調整"},{"start":9228.15,"end":9230.15,"text":"同時在2027年"},{"start":9230.15,"end":9232.15,"text":"也就是明年的116年"},{"start":9232.15,"end":9234.15,"text":"我們會再"},{"start":9234.15,"end":9236.15,"text":"通案調薪4%"},{"start":9236.15,"end":9238.15,"text":"那我現在在講的這些"},{"start":9238.15,"end":9240.15,"text":"麻煩我們在野黨的委員"},{"start":9240.15,"end":9242.15,"text":"你們也稍微看清楚"},{"start":9242.15,"end":9244.15,"text":"不要一直不斷的鬼打牆"},{"start":9244.15,"end":9246.15,"text":"一直在講什麼軍公教的什麼加薪"},{"start":9246.15,"end":9248.15,"text":"好那剛剛我有講到"},{"start":9248.15,"end":9250.15,"text":"我現在在講話喔請尊重"},{"start":9250.15,"end":9252.15,"text":"請尊重我發言"},{"start":9252.15,"end":9254.15,"text":"他說你在大宗鬼打牆"},{"start":9254.15,"end":9256.15,"text":"請尊重我的發言喔"},{"start":9256.15,"end":9258.15,"text":"所以我們剛剛在講的"},{"start":9258.15,"end":9260.15,"text":"這些部分其實你們應該都要"},{"start":9260.15,"end":9262.15,"text":"先討論清楚先看清楚"},{"start":9262.15,"end":9264.15,"text":"那剛剛其實我們的主計長"},{"start":9264.15,"end":9266.15,"text":"也有講了"},{"start":9266.15,"end":9268.15,"text":"全部全案3.65億"},{"start":9268.15,"end":9270.15,"text":"但是問題是現在"},{"start":9270.15,"end":9272.15,"text":"已經超刪了所謂的"},{"start":9272.15,"end":9274.15,"text":"4點多億這種狀況"},{"start":9274.15,"end":9276.15,"text":"我不知道大家有沒有記事感"},{"start":9276.15,"end":9278.15,"text":"好回到剛剛我為什麼會"},{"start":9278.15,"end":9280.15,"text":"出現在這裡喔"},{"start":9280.15,"end":9282.15,"text":"雖然今天沒有講到文化部但是呢"},{"start":9282.15,"end":9284.15,"text":"在我進來之前其實有提到所謂的"},{"start":9284.15,"end":9286.15,"text":"文化的預算我再次的提醒喔"},{"start":9286.15,"end":9288.15,"text":"剛好陳昀臻委員您也在這裡"},{"start":9288.15,"end":9290.15,"text":"去年的1月17號"},{"start":9290.15,"end":9292.15,"text":"我想你應該還記得"},{"start":9292.15,"end":9294.15,"text":"發生什麼事情包含王小棣"},{"start":9294.15,"end":9296.15,"text":"老師包含陳世傑金鐘"},{"start":9296.15,"end":9298.15,"text":"編劇導演包含"},{"start":9298.15,"end":9302.15,"text":"劇作家簡麗穎包含陳志強教授"},{"start":9302.15,"end":9304.15,"text":"全部排排站在議場的門口"},{"start":9304.15,"end":9306.15,"text":"在抗議你當初提案"},{"start":9306.15,"end":9312.15,"text":"要通刪我們的公共電視23億的一個預算"},{"start":9312.15,"end":9316.15,"text":"同時在內短短的不到兩天的時間"},{"start":9316.15,"end":9318.15,"text":"內後發起連署的藝人"},{"start":9318.15,"end":9321.15,"text":"人事包含金馬導演楊麗珠包含"},{"start":9321.15,"end":9324.15,"text":"雲美舞姊林懷民包含金馬導演陳裕勳"},{"start":9324.15,"end":9327.15,"text":"包含前北藝大校長邱坤良包含"},{"start":9327.15,"end":9330.15,"text":"政大廣電學系的教授陳如修"},{"start":9330.15,"end":9334.15,"text":"全部他們率先在網路上"},{"start":9334.15,"end":9336.15,"text":"發起連署抗議這件事情"},{"start":9336.15,"end":9339.15,"text":"後來您應該知道"},{"start":9339.15,"end":9342.15,"text":"您後來變成就統三兩千"},{"start":9342.15,"end":9344.15,"text":"等一下我還沒有請說我"},{"start":9344.15,"end":9345.15,"text":"所以專業立法院的同學"},{"start":9345.15,"end":9346.15,"text":"我們就是軍政"},{"start":9346.15,"end":9347.15,"text":"不是應該這樣講嗎"},{"start":9347.15,"end":9349.15,"text":"好請這是我現在在發言"},{"start":9349.15,"end":9350.15,"text":"我現在在發言"},{"start":9350.15,"end":9351.15,"text":"郭委員長"},{"start":9351.15,"end":9352.15,"text":"我現在在發言"},{"start":9352.15,"end":9355.15,"text":"拜託拜託"},{"start":9355.15,"end":9357.15,"text":"我們現在在講的是"},{"start":9357.15,"end":9359.15,"text":"不要無差別事的一刀砍"},{"start":9359.15,"end":9362.15,"text":"包含三十幾個刪減的提案"},{"start":9362.15,"end":9364.15,"text":"全部複製貼上"},{"start":9364.15,"end":9366.15,"text":"這個就是我們一直在強調的"},{"start":9366.15,"end":9370.15,"text":"什麼叫做什麼幫人民節省公帑"},{"start":9370.15,"end":9371.15,"text":"這種荒謬的提案"},{"start":9371.15,"end":9374.15,"text":"全部複製貼上再變成充三"},{"start":9374.15,"end":9375.15,"text":"這樣子的一個金額"},{"start":9375.15,"end":9377.15,"text":"你們真的自己有允許嗎"},{"start":9377.15,"end":9378.15,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9378.15,"end":9380.15,"text":"以上幫人民節省公帑"},{"start":9380.15,"end":9381.15,"text":"很荒謬"},{"start":9381.15,"end":9382.15,"text":"不好意思因為這是我的案子"},{"start":9382.15,"end":9383.15,"text":"是不是可以請院長容我"},{"start":9383.15,"end":9384.15,"text":"我知道我知道"},{"start":9384.15,"end":9386.15,"text":"郭委員同學我建議"},{"start":9386.15,"end":9388.15,"text":"我們還是針對我們現在進入的"},{"start":9388.15,"end":9390.15,"text":"預算案本身好嗎"},{"start":9390.15,"end":9392.15,"text":"我知道大家都很急切表達"},{"start":9392.15,"end":9393.15,"text":"一些其他方面的意見"},{"start":9393.15,"end":9395.15,"text":"但是為了有效的進行"},{"start":9395.15,"end":9398.15,"text":"我們今天這個預算的政黨協商"},{"start":9398.15,"end":9400.15,"text":"還是拜託大家聚焦一下"},{"start":9400.15,"end":9402.15,"text":"那吳校聯會請"},{"start":9403.22,"end":9405.22,"text":"因為這兩個案子都是我的案子"},{"start":9405.22,"end":9407.22,"text":"所以我就預算案我來講"},{"start":9407.91,"end":9413.91,"text":"行政院它去年編列2425萬的預算"},{"start":9413.91,"end":9418.91,"text":"水電費 2425萬的水電費的預算"},{"start":9418.91,"end":9423.91,"text":"它實際上決算只有2287萬"},{"start":9423.91,"end":9426.91,"text":"它今年多編了500萬"},{"start":9426.91,"end":9430.91,"text":"2838萬的水電費預算"},{"start":9430.91,"end":9433.91,"text":"成長幅度高達17.05%"},{"start":9433.91,"end":9436.91,"text":"這是跟它去年的法定預算相比的話"},{"start":9436.91,"end":9441.91,"text":"本席認為說這麼高水電費"},{"start":9442.72,"end":9443.72,"text":"成長幅度太高"},{"start":9445.29,"end":9449.29,"text":"行政院本來就應該要節省能源"},{"start":9449.29,"end":9454.29,"text":"為什麼在今年要多編500多萬的水電費用"},{"start":9454.29,"end":9456.29,"text":"我認為不合理"},{"start":9456.29,"end":9460.29,"text":"從113年114年都是2280萬的水電費"},{"start":9460.29,"end":9462.29,"text":"那你為什麼要編到2800多萬"},{"start":9463.53,"end":9465.53,"text":"我刪500萬有什麼不合理嗎"},{"start":9465.53,"end":9468.53,"text":"我還可以讓你今年還可以多用到2300萬"},{"start":9470.37,"end":9473.37,"text":"所以我刪除這個費用是很合理的"},{"start":9473.37,"end":9476.37,"text":"我先講另外就是還有一個案子"},{"start":9476.37,"end":9478.37,"text":"是剛剛講到這個其他業務租金"},{"start":9478.37,"end":9479.37,"text":"同樣的"},{"start":9480.69,"end":9482.69,"text":"其他業務租金的問題是"},{"start":9482.69,"end":9484.69,"text":"每年都超支"},{"start":9484.69,"end":9490.69,"text":"我不知道為什麼行政院的財政紀律如此之糟糕"},{"start":9490.69,"end":9492.69,"text":"我明明預算通過"},{"start":9492.69,"end":9496.69,"text":"只給你們130萬的業務租金"},{"start":9496.69,"end":9499.69,"text":"你們卻可以用到170萬"},{"start":9499.69,"end":9503.69,"text":"而多了這400萬到底錢從哪裡來"},{"start":9504.49,"end":9507.49,"text":"就代表你們其他的預算項目"},{"start":9507.49,"end":9512.49,"text":"伏編高編用不完的錢就留到其他業務租金"},{"start":9512.49,"end":9518.49,"text":"這個已經違反我們預算法的這個預算臨機原則"},{"start":9518.49,"end":9521.49,"text":"你們要何時編列何時去用"},{"start":9521.49,"end":9525.49,"text":"所以我在這裡提案刪減660萬"},{"start":9525.49,"end":9527.49,"text":"我認為也很合理"},{"start":9527.49,"end":9529.49,"text":"因為你們今年編的預算"},{"start":9529.49,"end":9532.49,"text":"又比去年成長50%"},{"start":9535.03,"end":9536.03,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9536.03,"end":9538.03,"text":"報告委員我剛剛都清楚了"},{"start":9538.03,"end":9541.03,"text":"現在您剛剛講的是第十案跟第十二案"},{"start":9541.03,"end":9547.03,"text":"我們現在進入25、26、27、28、29"},{"start":9547.03,"end":9548.03,"text":"那我先跟各位報告一下"},{"start":9548.03,"end":9551.03,"text":"26案改組決議政天才委員所提"},{"start":9551.03,"end":9554.03,"text":"27案政天才委員所提改組決議"},{"start":9554.03,"end":9555.03,"text":"28案改組決議"},{"start":9555.03,"end":9557.03,"text":"29案改組決議"},{"start":9557.03,"end":9562.03,"text":"現在25案要請張秘書長來表達一下意見"},{"start":9562.03,"end":9564.03,"text":"關於一般行政人士"},{"start":9564.03,"end":9568.03,"text":"政務人員待遇凍結148萬8千元"},{"start":9568.03,"end":9570.03,"text":"行政院院長9月至12月"},{"start":9570.03,"end":9572.03,"text":"新知歐小林委員所提"},{"start":9572.03,"end":9573.03,"text":"張秘書長請表達意見"},{"start":9574.23,"end":9576.23,"text":"好 謝謝院長"},{"start":9577.44,"end":9579.44,"text":"第一個我想要表達"},{"start":9579.44,"end":9583.44,"text":"人事的費用都是法定支出不得煽動"},{"start":9583.44,"end":9584.44,"text":"這是第一個"},{"start":9584.44,"end":9585.44,"text":"第二個"},{"start":9585.44,"end":9588.44,"text":"如果歐小林委員想要針對卓院長的話"},{"start":9588.44,"end":9590.44,"text":"那我想這是一個政治的動作"},{"start":9590.44,"end":9592.44,"text":"並不是一個理性的處理預算"},{"start":9592.44,"end":9593.44,"text":"你可以針對卓院長"},{"start":9593.44,"end":9599.44,"text":"但是你在第十三案提出刪減約用人員酬金"},{"start":9599.44,"end":9602.44,"text":"委員您知道約用人員酬金是他的薪水嗎"},{"start":9602.44,"end":9604.44,"text":"你去年也這樣子刪"},{"start":9604.44,"end":9606.44,"text":"逼迫的行政院要把人家先解僱"},{"start":9606.44,"end":9607.44,"text":"再徵聘"},{"start":9607.44,"end":9610.44,"text":"然後用人事費來去付約用人員的薪水"},{"start":9610.44,"end":9613.44,"text":"人家一個月的薪水3萬多到4萬"},{"start":9613.44,"end":9614.44,"text":"這樣你也要刪"},{"start":9614.44,"end":9618.44,"text":"你今天刪院長 凍院長 你明天就刪集成"},{"start":9618.44,"end":9620.44,"text":"這個我沒有辦法接受 以上說明"},{"start":9623.95,"end":9624.95,"text":"歐委員請"},{"start":9624.95,"end":9628.95,"text":"我想針對25案 我先講第25案"},{"start":9628.95,"end":9630.95,"text":"為什麼要刪卓庸"},{"start":9630.95,"end":9634.95,"text":"為什麼要凍結卓庸太久到12月的薪資"},{"start":9634.95,"end":9637.95,"text":"先講這個薪資也是法定預算"},{"start":9637.95,"end":9639.95,"text":"先講薪資也是法定預算"},{"start":9639.95,"end":9640.95,"text":"有人罵髒話"},{"start":9640.95,"end":9645.95,"text":"我們在委員會協商的現場"},{"start":9645.95,"end":9648.95,"text":"國民黨的黨團總召傅崑祺委員罵髒話"},{"start":9648.95,"end":9650.95,"text":"歐委員現在發言請"},{"start":9650.95,"end":9653.95,"text":"你們尊重委員的發言好嗎"},{"start":9653.95,"end":9655.95,"text":"歐委員現在發言請"},{"start":9655.95,"end":9658.95,"text":"尊重委員的發言不要動不動就指向"},{"start":9658.95,"end":9659.95,"text":"你們發言叫給一個人當你們黨團總"},{"start":9659.95,"end":9660.95,"text":"當你們黨團長"},{"start":9660.95,"end":9662.95,"text":"你們是學生不在這邊討價"},{"start":9662.95,"end":9664.95,"text":"你們不會看錄影嘛"},{"start":9664.95,"end":9667.95,"text":"尊重一下發言的委員好嗎"},{"start":9667.95,"end":9669.95,"text":"不要每次都在協商現場做這樣的事情"},{"start":9669.95,"end":9670.95,"text":"你自己講什麼"},{"start":9670.95,"end":9672.95,"text":"你們隔壁人都沒聽到嗎"},{"start":9672.95,"end":9674.95,"text":"中二藍皮豬場你都沒聽到嗎"},{"start":9674.95,"end":9675.95,"text":"干擾手段"},{"start":9675.95,"end":9679.95,"text":"在講話是因為粉色走到他們嘴"},{"start":9679.95,"end":9681.95,"text":"你們委員的粉色走到他們嘴"},{"start":9681.95,"end":9683.95,"text":"你們怎麼不肯自己講"},{"start":9683.95,"end":9685.95,"text":"口才還是要罵梅書長還是罵卓院長"},{"start":9685.95,"end":9687.95,"text":"時間暫停"},{"start":9687.95,"end":9689.95,"text":"國民委員直接點名立法委員"},{"start":9689.95,"end":9690.95,"text":"我知道"},{"start":9690.95,"end":9691.95,"text":"現在可以這樣子喔"},{"start":9691.95,"end":9693.95,"text":"還可以直接點名立法委員"},{"start":9693.95,"end":9695.95,"text":"請說你這樣三個"},{"start":9695.95,"end":9696.95,"text":"除了鐵人共產"},{"start":9699.21,"end":9701.21,"text":"你剛剛罵什麼再罵一次"},{"start":9701.21,"end":9702.21,"text":"你罵一次再按下去嘛"},{"start":9702.21,"end":9704.21,"text":"你有本事你按啊"},{"start":9704.21,"end":9706.21,"text":"陳培議委員跟李國維委"},{"start":9706.21,"end":9708.21,"text":"還有郭委員"},{"start":9708.21,"end":9710.21,"text":"今天是黨"},{"start":9710.21,"end":9712.21,"text":"院長罵髒話是剛剛那一位喔"},{"start":9712.21,"end":9713.21,"text":"國民黨的總統"},{"start":9713.21,"end":9715.21,"text":"是不是應該對梅書長道歉一下"},{"start":9715.21,"end":9717.21,"text":"你剛剛那個髒話是給"},{"start":9717.21,"end":9718.21,"text":"你們講的發言"},{"start":9718.21,"end":9719.21,"text":"你們尊重一下好嗎"},{"start":9719.21,"end":9720.21,"text":"院長在講話是尊重"},{"start":9720.21,"end":9722.21,"text":"他有罵你們神經嗎"},{"start":9722.21,"end":9724.21,"text":"罵誰你自己清楚啊"},{"start":9724.64,"end":9726.64,"text":"罵誰你自己清楚嘛"},{"start":9726.64,"end":9728.64,"text":"你剛剛罵了誰嘛"},{"start":9728.64,"end":9730.64,"text":"傅坤琪你剛剛罵了誰"},{"start":9730.64,"end":9732.64,"text":"你為什麼不敢回答嗎"},{"start":9732.64,"end":9733.64,"text":"傅坤琪你回答嘛"},{"start":9733.64,"end":9734.64,"text":"你幹嘛在這裡努力"},{"start":9734.64,"end":9736.64,"text":"你現在罵髒話了"},{"start":9736.64,"end":9738.64,"text":"你現在要去罵張秘書長喔"},{"start":9738.64,"end":9740.64,"text":"不要啦不要啦"},{"start":9740.64,"end":9741.64,"text":"不要啦不要啦"},{"start":9741.64,"end":9742.64,"text":"不要再說這個了"},{"start":9742.64,"end":9743.64,"text":"院長要主持公道啊"},{"start":9743.64,"end":9745.64,"text":"他不要去看VOD重播啊"},{"start":9745.64,"end":9747.64,"text":"他現在罵張秘書長道歉"},{"start":9747.64,"end":9749.64,"text":"那我繼續學傷"},{"start":9749.64,"end":9751.64,"text":"你講錯了不該講"},{"start":9751.64,"end":9752.64,"text":"你就該道歉啊"},{"start":9752.64,"end":9753.64,"text":"可以討論提案嗎"},{"start":9753.64,"end":9754.64,"text":"可不可以"},{"start":9754.64,"end":9756.64,"text":"你說不是罵委員"},{"start":9756.64,"end":9757.64,"text":"你就罵張秘書長"},{"start":9757.64,"end":9758.64,"text":"討論提案嘛"},{"start":9758.64,"end":9761.64,"text":"草野學傷到此為止"},{"start":9761.64,"end":9762.64,"text":"他剛剛有罵立委了嗎"},{"start":9762.64,"end":9764.64,"text":"他剛剛陳述他的論述給他聽"},{"start":9764.64,"end":9766.64,"text":"他告訴翁曉琳委員說"},{"start":9766.64,"end":9769.64,"text":"這個是學院講的精神喔"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:32:21.791429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:32:24.508889+08:00","text":"現在三黨都有黨團幹部在場，我們就開始開會，好嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:32:24.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:32:27.366667+08:00","text":"因為時間寶貴，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:32:27.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:32:34.490000+08:00","text":"謝謝三個黨團\n的幹部跟代表，也謝謝行政部門的列席，謝謝所有工作夥伴。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:32:34.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:32:44+08:00","text":"今天我們協商的題目有兩個，第一個是監察院人事同意權，第二個是 115年度總預算案（公務\n預算部分），我們依序進行協商。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:32:44.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:32:56.469231+08:00","text":"針對監委同意權的審查時程，依法，我們預計在 8 月份完成公聽會跟全院委員會的審查時程\n，這一點要特別跟各黨團報告。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:32:56.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:33:04.910000+08:00","text":"現在有一個協商草稿，我會請議事人員發下去，等一下各位拿\n到之後，我會再來宣讀。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:33:05.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:33:15.717778+08:00","text":"原則上，我們是一場公聽會加上五天全院委員會來進行審查，全院委\n員會是利用星期二跟星期四來進行。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:33:16.811818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:33:21.816667+08:00","text":"現在請各位黨團幹部看一下，如果沒有意見的話，我們就來簽字。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:33:24.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:33:51.096667+08:00","text":"這個部分有三個重點：\n一、8月 6號（星期四）舉行監察院人事同意權案公聽會，由各黨團推薦學者專家代表 7位參\n加，由國民黨黨團推薦 3 位、民進黨黨團推薦 3 位、台灣民眾黨黨團推薦 1 位；各黨團審查小\n組委員依上述比例推派委員組成。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:33:51.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:33:59.096667+08:00","text":"名單請於 7 月 31 號（星期五）中午 12 點前送交議事處彙整\n，逾時視同放棄。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:33:59.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:34:10.170000+08:00","text":"二、8月 11號（星期二）、18號（星期二）、25號（星期二）改開全院委員會，並與 8月 13\n號（星期四）、20 號（星期四）合併為一次會。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:34:10.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:34:48.388182+08:00","text":"8 月 11 號（星期二）上午分別審查監察院院長\n、監察院副院長被提名人，並由 7 位委員進行詢答，國民黨黨團推派 3 位、民進黨黨團推派 3\n位、台灣民眾黨黨團推派 1位代表進行；8月 11號（星期二）下午、13號（星期四）、18號（\n星期二）、20 號（星期四）、25 號（星期二）分別審查監察委員被提名人，每位被提名人各由\n5位委員進行詢答，國民黨黨團推派 2位、民進黨黨團推派 2位、台灣民眾黨黨團推派 1位代表\n進行。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:34:48.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:34:54.236667+08:00","text":"名單請於 8 月 10 號（星期一）中午 12 點前送交議事處彙整，逾時視同放棄。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:34:54.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:34:58.303333+08:00","text":"詢答順序\n依例授權議事處進行處理。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:34:59.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:35:04.860000+08:00","text":"審查完畢後，於第 6會期進行同意權案記名投票表決。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:35:05.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:35:15.026667+08:00","text":"三、有關監察院院長、副院長及 25位監察委員被提名人同意權案相關事務及時程詳如附表。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:35:15.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:35:21.577143+08:00","text":"請大家可以看一下後面的附表，如果沒有意見，麻煩三個黨團現在可以簽字嗎？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:35:21.862857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:35:22.434286+08:00","text":"還是要發言\n？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:35:26.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:35:28.434286+08:00","text":"好，翁曉玲委員，請發言。協 2","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T14:35:28.434286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T14:35:50.657143+08:00","text":"院長、在座各位委員，大家好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T14:35:50.657143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T14:36:12.880000+08:00","text":"因為這次監察委員的候選人總共有 27 位，事實上，\n如果用個別委員個別詢答的方式，時間會拖得很長，到時候可能委員們輪到要質詢的壓力會比\n較大，是不是過去曾經有過這樣做法，就是把 27 位委員用分組的方式，等於說我們還是一個一\n個去詢答，只是在同一組裡面來做詢答，這樣的話就可能……喔，修法過了，所以是不能喔！","quality":0.016},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T14:36:12.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:36:14.832941+08:00","text":"是，以前好像是可以的，但是後來……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T14:36:14.950588+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:36:19.440000+08:00","text":"是因為修法之後就不行了嗎？了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:36:20.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:36:22.458182+08:00","text":"因為這個一定是一板一眼都照規定的。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-07-29T14:36:22.458182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T14:36:25.640000+08:00","text":"因為法修了。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:36:25.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:36:28.466087+08:00","text":"好，各位委員如果沒有意見，請各黨團代表簽字，好嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:36:30.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:36:32.616154+08:00","text":"這樣我們就完成第一案的朝野協商\n。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:37:26.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:37:48.660000+08:00","text":"各位黨團幹部，更正一下，因為 8 月 25 號有非常多重要的法案要審查，我們多留一天當彈性\n，所以最後全院委員會第 5 場監察院人事同意權審查報告，我們改提早一天到 8 月 24 號，這樣\n我們 25 號就全部空出來了，我們有非常多的法律案這一天可能要進行處理，好嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:37:50.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:37:54.410000+08:00","text":"麻煩一下大\n家，我們現在更改，25改為 24……25改為 24？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:37:56.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:38:02.620000+08:00","text":"對，24號就是最後一場，對，25號這一天我們要全部拿過來處理法律案。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:38:09.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:38:13.221852+08:00","text":"現在手上有一個改好的，麻煩大家根據這個改好的來簽一下，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:42:31.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:42:39.017778+08:00","text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部，我們進入第二題 115年度總預算案公務預算部分的協商。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:42:39.656667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:42:45.983333+08:00","text":"今天我們原則上\n協商時間到下午 6點，原則上協商時間到下午 6點。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:42:47.542727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:42:56.603333+08:00","text":"我們現在來介紹今天所有與會的各個內閣官員，首先我們歡迎行政院張秘書長，歡迎您。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:42:57.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:42:59.103333+08:00","text":"國\n家發展委員會葉主任委員，歡迎您。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:00.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:43:01.937778+08:00","text":"經濟部龔部長，歡迎您。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:03.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:43:05.158182+08:00","text":"主計總處陳主計長，歡迎您。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:06.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:43:17.860000+08:00","text":"監\n察院黃秘書長，監察院黃秘書長，監察院有代表來嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:18.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:43:19.770000+08:00","text":"現場有監察院的嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:23.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:43:27.097778+08:00","text":"好，我們通知一下\n監察院黃秘書長……監察院黃秘書長來了，好，請坐。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:27.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:43:29.153333+08:00","text":"謝謝各位列席的官員。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:31.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:43:42.638889+08:00","text":"我們現在進入 115年度中央政府總預算案通案協商提案彙整，進入第 1案主決議，翁曉玲委員\n所提案，請問翁委員有沒有意見？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:44.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:43:55.916154+08:00","text":"我沒有意見，因為我的提案基本上也跟主計總處討論過，他們也提了文字修正，我也\n同意了，所以基本上第 1 案沒有問題。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T14:43:56.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:13.830000+08:00","text":"我的第 1 案主要是希望，未來各個機關可以上網公告他\n們的預算和決算以及會計報告的資料，而且必須要提供各種不同的檔案格式，這也方便有興趣\n的民眾還有立法委員問政時候的作業。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:16.536667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:20.203333+08:00","text":"就這個部分來說，主計總處沒有意見，我們已經討論過\n了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:20.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:33.062308+08:00","text":"好的，謝謝翁曉玲委員的發言，已經跟主計總處協調過，就是把「改正上述的缺失」調整為\n「檢討精進、落實執行」這 8個字。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:33.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:34.970000+08:00","text":"好，主計總處……","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:35.733636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:39.006364+08:00","text":"並且在兩個月內向立法院財政委員會提出改善說明報告。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:39.006364+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:40.258889+08:00","text":"三個月改成兩個月，主計總處有補充意見嗎？同意？好。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:40.258889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:41.147778+08:00","text":"張秘書長，請。協 3","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:42.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:43.891765+08:00","text":"謝謝院長、謝謝翁委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:44.068235+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:53.313333+08:00","text":"這 8個字是我改的，因為不同的格式在不同的系統介面都\n能夠廣泛運用，對開放政府也是好事，也是我們一貫的立場。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:53.824828+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:59.368889+08:00","text":"我覺得原本的寫法不夠具體，所\n以我把它改成「檢討精進、落實執行」，謝謝院長、謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:44:59.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:44:59.908571+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:00.337143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:02.265714+08:00","text":"第 1案我們就修正通過。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:03.051429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:04.194286+08:00","text":"進入第 2 案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:05.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:09.229474+08:00","text":"國民黨黨團的主決議，請國民黨黨團表達一下意見。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:09.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:24.490000+08:00","text":"你們有修正文字，你們是\n改為「山坡地及平地造林」。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:24.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:26.558182+08:00","text":"請國民黨黨團表達一下意見。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:26.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:42.591852+08:00","text":"基本上，針對「都市林」這句話，我們後來把它改成「山坡地及平地造林」，跟後面\n有關增加行政效率、應負起更多責任，都是希望在這個主決議裡面，我們的語意能夠更清楚，\n更能夠聚焦在我們想要改善的問題。以上。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:45.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:48.230000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝林沛祥書記長。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:48.665294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:50.194706+08:00","text":"龔部長，經濟部要表達一下意見嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:53.888182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:54.570000+08:00","text":"好，請張秘書長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:55.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:45:57.378182+08:00","text":"謝謝院長、謝謝林沛祥委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:45:57.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:46:29.310000+08:00","text":"第一個，我必須先說明一下，原本國民黨黨團的提案\n裡面，確實「都市林」可能有點誤解，農業部「自然碳匯」的計畫確實是在處理山坡地跟平地\n造林，所以謝謝國民黨黨團有做文字的修正，這也證明了行政部門有山坡地跟平地造林，而總\n統所召開的國家氣候變遷對策委員會處理都市林的部分，剛好是相輔相成，也證明了在總統府\n設立這樣子的委員會有其意義、價值跟必要性，謝謝。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:46:30.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:46:39.230000+08:00","text":"好，現在我們就根據國民黨黨團所提的修正，以及張秘書長剛才所報告的，把它修正通過，\n謝謝。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:46:39.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:46:40.630000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 3案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:46:47.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:46:52.868462+08:00","text":"第 3案是國民黨黨團所提的提案，國民黨黨團要不要補充意見？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-29T14:46:57.210526+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:46:57.842105+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-29T14:46:58.684211+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:47:18.750000+08:00","text":"有關 CPTPP這個案子，從過去到現在，當 CPTPP出來之後，其實大家都\n很關注，但是很可惜的是，到目前為止效果不彰，進度也不明顯，所以我們在這邊期待用主決\n議的方式來讓這個 CPTPP整個辦公室也好，還是未來的加入也好，能夠更加儘速，謝謝。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:47:20.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:47:21.755000+08:00","text":"龔部長您需要補充嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:47:22.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:47:22.380000+08:00","text":"還是不用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:47:22.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:47:23.630000+08:00","text":"我們就照案通過了？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:47:23.772857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:47:24.344286+08:00","text":"好，請張秘書長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:47:26.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:47:28.180000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長、謝謝林委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:47:28.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:47:37.080000+08:00","text":"畢竟主決議還是會落實在預算書上面，所以有幾個關於時\n序上面的問題可能要提出來討論一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:47:37.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:48:20.547778+08:00","text":"第一個，臺灣申請加入 CPTPP確實是在 2021年的 9月，\n但第一個，中央政府解禁日本福島五縣食品進口的限制並不是發生在 2021 年，是分作兩個階段\n，第一個階段是在 2022 年的 2 月，那個時候還有三原則、三管制，然後第二個時間點的問題是\n在於，隔年日本在臺代表泉裕泰還表示……泉裕泰代表也不是在 2022 年做以下的表示，他是在\n2021年，也就是同年在一個活動上講了這句話，所以這個部分是不是可以提出部分的修正？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:48:20.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:48:52.539231+08:00","text":"第二個，從國民黨黨團的提案我們也可以看得出來，這個提案有提到，臺灣就對新加坡、紐\n西蘭、加拿大、澳洲等簽訂雙邊的貿易協定，也證明了政府有在推動 CPTPP 的加入而努力，而\n在國民黨黨團提案的文字裡面也有提到，越南的一中政策未變之下等等，那也證明了確實中國\n才是阻礙臺灣加入 CPTPP的最關鍵因素，所以是否能夠做一些文字修正？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:48:53.240588+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:49:21.539231+08:00","text":"在此也跟院長、跟立法院、跟全體國人報告，行政院一直希望把 OTN 的體質做得更好，去年\n卓院長就核定了 6 個 OTN 正式編制的員額，如果今年行政院院本部的預算能夠順利地通過，我\n們也期望在下半年再新增員額，而即將送來立法院的 116 年度中央政府總預算，我們也會再幫\n協 4\nOTN 增加員額。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:49:21.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:49:41.670000+08:00","text":"所以是否能夠在倒數第三行的部分可以改為「要求行政院應加速改組行政院經\n貿辦公室，」，後面的文字可以直接接到「尋求穩定理性的兩岸互動方式，俾利我國申請加入\nCPTPP進程取得實質進展」，以上建議，恭請院長……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:49:41.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:49:43.634286+08:00","text":"謝謝張秘書長的補充。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:49:44.364444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:49:47.771852+08:00","text":"張秘書長，剛才發下來的就是你們建議的文字修正？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:49:47.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:49:49.720000+08:00","text":"好，請各黨團幹\n部看一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:49:50.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:49:57.753333+08:00","text":"三個黨團先看一下，有幾個地方的文字修正，然後請國民黨團表達一下意見，大家\n先看一下。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:49:57.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:50:17.666667+08:00","text":"「解禁」前面加「逐步」，「無望」改為「無果」，「實質合作」前面加上「推動\n更新或洽簽雙邊經貿協定等」，再來倒數第三行「立即」改為「加速」。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:50:18.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:50:22.793333+08:00","text":"國民黨黨團看完之後，台灣民眾黨黨團看有沒有意見。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:50:24.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:50:25.620000+08:00","text":"請林沛祥書記長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-29T14:50:25.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:50:55.620000+08:00","text":"報告院長，我覺得用「加速」這個字眼，我個人覺得有點籠統，事實上來講，我們就\n是期待有專業人才進來 CPTPP辦公室，如果只用「加速」這兩個字的話，6個月也算加速，3年\n也算加速，我們會期待要有一個時間，要有一個很確切的時間，就是什麼時候能夠以專業人才\n來改組，像是剛剛院長提 3 個月、2 個月之類的，我覺得這樣是比較妥當的方式，我們建議是 2\n個月。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:50:56.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:51:06.902353+08:00","text":"國民黨黨團提「加速」、「立即」、「馬上」、「迅速」太抽象了，就是訂為 2個月，張秘\n書長，您覺得怎麼樣？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T14:51:08.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:51:09.917778+08:00","text":"我想 3個月可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:51:10.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:51:10.940000+08:00","text":"3 個月好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:51:11.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:51:12.806667+08:00","text":"好，3 個月，OK！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:51:13.321818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:51:14.958182+08:00","text":"我們就將「加速」改為「3 個月」。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:51:15.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:51:24.003636+08:00","text":"行政院在 3 個月之內就\n改組行政院經貿辦公室，我想這樣應該可以獲得一個共識，大家各位黨團幹部還有各位列席的\n委員有沒有意見？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:51:24.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:51:27.640000+08:00","text":"沒有意見，第 3案就修正通過，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:51:30.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:51:50.780000+08:00","text":"第 4 案是國民黨黨團所提的主決議，文字上有減列，要請看一下，請國民黨團還是一樣表達\n一下意見，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-29T14:51:57.683846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:52:18.030000+08:00","text":"主要是針對公務預算匡列 442億，其實我們會認為在預算來之後，這個計畫才核定，\n我們覺得這樣子可能相對比較起來……公務預算不應該是這樣編列的方式，所以也是因為這樣\n子，我們有這個主決議的存在，以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:52:35.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:52:36.967143+08:00","text":"張秘書長您說明，還是請經濟部部長？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:52:37.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:52:37.967143+08:00","text":"好，龔部長，謝謝。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-29T14:52:38.382727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:53:05.610000+08:00","text":"我想這個有很大的誤解，因為這個無人機統籌計畫裡面，事實上包含著有一些已經是\n延續性的計畫，比如說以經濟部來講，這個無人機產業推動計畫裡面，亞洲無人機創新中心的\n發展計畫，事實上這個從 113 年就開始做了，112 年就核定了，就是所謂的亞創計畫，那個已經\n是開始的。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-29T14:53:06.538571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:53:21.095000+08:00","text":"只是在這個統籌型計畫以後，我們把它彙整到這個統籌型計畫裡面，所以基本上它\n的預算是延續性的，並不是後來核定以後才開始做的，不是這樣子，之前就已經核定了。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-29T14:53:21.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:53:41.910000+08:00","text":"同樣\n地，很多計畫也是這樣，包括我們技術司的無人機飛行系統國產自主關鍵技術，這個也是從 114\n年就開始做，或者是晶片驅動臺灣產業創新的無人機關鍵晶片加速計畫，這個也是從 114年就開\n始做。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-29T14:53:42.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:53:54.390000+08:00","text":"另外，國科會的無人機關鍵技術前瞻計畫也是 114年開始做，等等的一些情況，還有國防\n協 5\n部的民雄航太產業園區也是從 114年就已經開始做了。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-29T14:53:54.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:54:02.340000+08:00","text":"所以很多預算不是核定以後才開始做的，\n不是這樣的意思，以上說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:54:03.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:54:05.367778+08:00","text":"謝謝龔部長的說明，謝謝。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:54:06.034444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:54:07.367778+08:00","text":"請鍾佳濱委員說明。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:54:07.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:54:14.256667+08:00","text":"國民黨團請看一下最後倒數第二行的字，這有一點矛盾的地方，要刪除\n。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-29T14:54:15.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:54:16.390000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-29T14:54:16.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:54:19.317273+08:00","text":"我這裡做個表達，也對經濟部提出一個詢問。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-29T14:54:19.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:55:22.235714+08:00","text":"上週一經濟委員會安排到亞\n創中心進行考察，就是在嘉義那裡，是蔡易餘委員特別安排，我們去到那裡看到進駐的廠商相\n當多，可是現場的情況有些荒涼，連門口展示的那一架無人機，因為上次颱風來受到損毀，他\n們把它的翅膀拆下來，現在還沒有裝上去，我們就詢問當天有出席的相關機關，他們說亞創中\n心有一期、二期、三期，關於後續的計畫，因為本年度是屬於新創計畫，所以延續性的……但\n是新創計畫不能撥款，所以他們完全不能夠進行整個場地的更新及建築的興辦，以致於現在進\n入的廠商就變成卡在那裡，他們現在開始期待民雄那邊是不是可以再去興建。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-29T14:55:22.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:55:36.200000+08:00","text":"如果行政院對於\n已經投入的計畫持續推動的後續經費沒有辦法到位，進駐的廠商就會覺得受騙上當。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-29T14:55:36.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:56:27.268182+08:00","text":"所以我覺\n得經濟部要說明一下，那一天好像副署長還是主任秘書在場，我覺得大家都要看 442 億，對行\n政院來講，它把延續性的、新創的用一個統籌型計畫的名稱匡列下來，為的就是讓業者知道這\n些項目都會涉及我國未來無人載具產業發展，因此，它們就願意調撥資源投入；結果現在又看\n到我們今天這個提案，本來以為是凍結，現在卻說要統刪，要把名目掛在這個無人載具產業發\n展統籌型計畫，所有的項目只要有掛上這個名字就認為無人載具是不必要的、要刪除的，這給\n外界一個很嚴重的錯誤印象：我們的國會不重視臺灣未來無人載具的發展。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-29T14:56:27.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:56:35.350000+08:00","text":"甚至現在在亞創中\n心進駐的那些業者苦苦等待不到，到底後期的預算什麼時候可以進來，才可以把二期、三期的\n工程完成？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-29T14:56:36.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:56:37.350000+08:00","text":"經濟部能不能說明一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:56:37.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:56:38.250000+08:00","text":"好，佳濱謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:56:38.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:56:41.283333+08:00","text":"對不起，國民黨黨團需不需要再修正？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:56:41.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:56:44.050000+08:00","text":"如果不修正、還要再研究，就保留了\n。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T14:56:46.291429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:56:47.434286+08:00","text":"傅總召請發言。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T14:56:48.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:56:51.324286+08:00","text":"院長，可不可以讓大家都好好講話？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:56:57.446667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:57:12.616364+08:00","text":"支持國防產業能夠自主地發展，還有相關採購充實我們的國防，國民黨黨團非常堅決\n也強烈地支持。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:57:12.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:57:14.646667+08:00","text":"從過去通過的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:57:17.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:57:19.646667+08:00","text":"他們就這種水平，沒有關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:57:20.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:57:40.810000+08:00","text":"從過去不管是美國有開發價書、美國國會有通過、美國\n總統有簽字過來的這些未來整個後續的延壽、維修相關的軍事採購，國民黨都是支持的。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:57:42.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:58:10.994286+08:00","text":"我們\n要特別強調，顧立雄上個禮拜才在立法院又出醜，什麼保證賣馬桶的可以進口炸藥、賣茶葉的\n都可以做軍火生意，我想這樣浮濫的情況必須要受到比較完整的規範，這是國家對國防的基本\n尊重。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:58:11.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:59:15.645714+08:00","text":"針對無人載具的部分，現在世界各國幾乎在國防防衛上最主要的利器就是無人機載具，而國\n協 6\n民黨已經提出 6 年 2,400 億，比行政院提出的 2,100 億還多，國民黨正式提出這個條例也是全面\n支持國防產業自主發展，也謝謝各黨團前天（禮拜一）在經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會聯\n席會議審查，也出了委員會，已經可以正式進入朝野協商，儘快讓 2,400 億支持國內自主生產國\n防產業的部分能夠蓬勃發展。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:59:16.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:59:43.880000+08:00","text":"對於到底是不是有關計畫未經核定即先行編列預算、違反預算法\n相關的問題，我想經濟部要狸貓換太子，送來這份說明書來，部長以前當行政院秘書長的時候\n滿奉公守法的，現在到了經濟部以後各種花樣都出來了……","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-29T14:59:43.880000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T14:59:46.660000+08:00","text":"沒有，現在也是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:59:46.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:59:48.542353+08:00","text":"以前就是這樣，對不起，我以前看錯你了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-29T14:59:48.542353+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T14:59:49.542353+08:00","text":"我一直都是奉公守法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:59:48.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T14:59:56.478182+08:00","text":"你以前是貌似奉公守法，現在換了一個位置，就開始五花八門都出來了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T14:59:59.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:00:08.977778+08:00","text":"你原本的計\n畫本來就是 113年到 116年，你怎麼會跟著 442億叫做延續型計畫呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:00:08.977778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:00:13.910000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:00:13.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:00:25.800000+08:00","text":"每一年都有軍事\n採購，你不能說上次採購完，現在要採購，也說是延續型的計畫，你這本來就是新興計畫嘛！","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-29T15:00:25.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:00:26.800000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個不是軍事採購。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:00:26.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:00:27.800000+08:00","text":"龔部長，你等一下可以再發言，沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:00:27.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:00:28.800000+08:00","text":"你這個本來就是新興計畫，對不對？","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:00:27.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:00:31.500000+08:00","text":"新興計畫本來就應該要行政院核定完以後才能送\n預算來。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:00:33.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:00:54.850000+08:00","text":"今天這個爭執點，因為他們不斷鋪天蓋地用綠媒在扭曲這個事情，我們本來就是支持\n無人載具的，綠媒天天在抹、攻擊在野黨，把假的都說成真的一樣、真的說成假的一樣！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:00:55.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:01:05.666667+08:00","text":"我們\n本來就支持無人載具在國內的發展，所以為什麼 2,400 億的主責單位放在經濟部、在經濟委員會\n？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:01:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:01:19.126154+08:00","text":"部長，主責單位 2,400 億放在經濟委員會，當然是因為支持國內國防自主，希望我們的本土產\n業能夠真正振興、能夠發展，不然為什麼要放在經濟委員會？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:01:20.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:01:33.027778+08:00","text":"所以 442 億，院長，我們不是說\n……因為一開始它是違反預算法，狸貓換太子，我們在這裡要講清楚。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:01:35.856667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:03.028182+08:00","text":"至於他只要有足夠的理由說服我們，即便在核定前就已經送預算書，他只要今天講得清楚，\n今天不是來這裡吵架的，不是來潑婦罵街的，但是我們在這裡要特別強調，我們支持無人載具\n，更希望國內產業能夠發展。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:03.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:11.058182+08:00","text":"所以今天部長要跟大家講清楚，不要再扯說什麼 113到 116年，那\n本來就是另外一個計畫嘛！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:11.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:12.954286+08:00","text":"就不是這個計畫。","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:12.954286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:13.954286+08:00","text":"秘書長也在這裡，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:13.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:18.990000+08:00","text":"他不要硬把這個東西\n兜起來，說在野黨的不對，然後綠媒抹黑也抹夠了。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:19.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:40.560000+08:00","text":"我們希望這個事情，龔部長在這裡跟大家\n講清楚，你不用扯以前什麼 113到 116年，你要直接講這 442億需要的正當性是什麼，要講清楚\n，跟在野黨、跟國民黨、跟民眾黨講清楚，在這裡可以讓你來講，沒有問題。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:40.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:45.016000+08:00","text":"謝謝奉公守法的傅總召跟龔部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:45.016000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:49.472000+08:00","text":"我等一下作宣告，宣告之前還有兩位委員要發言，我想黨團幹部先發言，莊瑞雄幹事長請發\n言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:49.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:53.928000+08:00","text":"我要作宣告，因為關鍵是後面還有非常多，馬上要進到內政的部分，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:53.928000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:02:58.384000+08:00","text":"請大家掌握\n時間，我們最好針對主決議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:02:58.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:03:02.840000+08:00","text":"莊瑞雄幹事長請發言，范雲書記長請準備。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:03:02.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:03:06.395556+08:00","text":"院長還有各位協商代表，我是一定針對主題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:03:07.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:03:14.803333+08:00","text":"剛剛傅總召這個講法就剛好把是非、事\n實弄顛倒，這樣也不好。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:03:15.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:03:39.288571+08:00","text":"去年 11月行政院把 8年 1.25兆整個軍購的特別條例送到立法院，國民\n協 7\n黨其實很清楚，你們就是 3,500 億；接下來，當天下午你們弄一個 3,800 億，我批評你們說一日\n三市，你們再來講 N 嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:03:39.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:03:55.360000+08:00","text":"所以，到了今年 5 月份我們通過的……本來是 8 年 1.25 兆，到最後變\n成七千八，雖然通過了，國民黨就一直在講：我們很支持國防自主。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:03:55.360000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:03:56.360000+08:00","text":"真的嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:03:55.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:03.637778+08:00","text":"無人機部分，無\n人機好像跟國民黨、跟民眾黨有仇一樣，我們去年 1.25 兆、跟你們講啊！","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:03.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:13.678182+08:00","text":"整個無人載具裡面的\n濱海監偵型無人機，還有濱海攻擊無人機、小型攻擊無人機，3,350 億，你們就一刀全部把它幹\n掉嘛！","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:13.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:17.693333+08:00","text":"你們說要有發價書過來，我說無人機哪有什麼發價書！","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:17.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:23.526667+08:00","text":"去年大家都吵過了，怎麼現在會\n倒過來說什麼無人機對整個戰力提升非常有幫助，國民黨都贊成？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:23.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:27.244615+08:00","text":"國民黨從頭到尾全部都是反\n對，所以我們必須要講清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:27.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:37.742353+08:00","text":"院長還有各位協商代表，在去年我們把急迫的這些要買的，因為\n在野黨不同意，你們已經把它刪除掉了……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:37.742353+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:39.995931+08:00","text":"因為他有正式點名說我，我要回應……","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:39.995931+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:42.249510+08:00","text":"不，可以、沒關係……","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:42.249510+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:44.503088+08:00","text":"剛剛他又點名我，所以要我回應。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:44.503088+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:46.756667+08:00","text":"我們先講清楚……","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:46.756667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:49.804286+08:00","text":"他們在做人身攻擊，我們一定要回應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:49.804286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:50.804286+08:00","text":"沒有，沒人做人身攻擊啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:50.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:55.936154+08:00","text":"朝野協商只要他人身攻擊，我一定要回應。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:55.936154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:56.936154+08:00","text":"我講的全部都是事實。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:56.936154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:57.936154+08:00","text":"只要他人身攻擊，我一定要回應。","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:57.936154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:04:58.936154+08:00","text":"要不要聽我講？","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:04:58.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:01.423333+08:00","text":"我對他們從來沒有點名過……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:02.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:03.956667+08:00","text":"院長，你剛剛不是說講話不要插嘴嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:04.232857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:05.947143+08:00","text":"現在有人插嘴，院長又不公正！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:06.756667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:09.908182+08:00","text":"想要灌水協商\n，又不給大家時間好好討論！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:10.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:11.923333+08:00","text":"你今天就是擺明來灌水的嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:11.923333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:14.090000+08:00","text":"你剛剛叫我們不要插嘴，那現在不\n就插嘴了嗎？","quality":0.263},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:14.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:17.867778+08:00","text":"我歡迎傅總召來回應我，講明我莊瑞雄說到你是哪裡亂講。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:19.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:24.544545+08:00","text":"我從去年特別預算 8 年\n1.25 兆說到現在，說到今年 5 月通過變成 7,800 嘛！","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:25.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:34.840000+08:00","text":"我說你們國民黨版原本是 3,500，那天下午\n變成 3,800，可是我們 5月通過的是 7,800，到最後你們無人載具的部分全部都是砍嘛！","quality":0.617},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:35.375714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:43.840000+08:00","text":"我的重點來了，不要嘴巴說支持，你現在說：我後悔了，我想支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:44.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:44.840000+08:00","text":"這樣也很好嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:45.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:48.908182+08:00","text":"我只是\n告訴你說，急需要買的時候，你們確實把人家給砍掉了。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:49.312222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:05:53.375714+08:00","text":"今年 6 月份送進來的無人載具的部分，好啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:05:55.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:06:00.423333+08:00","text":"行政院說要由國防部做主責機關，你們說要經\n濟部，因為立法程序，卡住了！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:06:01.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:06:02.090000+08:00","text":"好，現在來了！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:06:03.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:06:06.737059+08:00","text":"我急需要的時候，無人載具的部分你們先把人\n家沒收，這是事實嘛！","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:06:09.243846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:06:28.867778+08:00","text":"現在就變成行政院提出來的 6 年 442 億的無人載具發展統籌型計畫，你\n們說要放在年度預算，他們放在年度預算裡面的各部會、各領域推展和發展，你們說要提案把\n這個計畫的相關預算從原本是凍結，現在改成要全部刪除耶！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:06:29.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:06:34.840000+08:00","text":"所以我是認為，針對無人機產業的部分，各黨團是不是能一起來支持？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:06:35.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:06:36.490000+08:00","text":"大家一起來支持！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:06:39.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:06:40.756667+08:00","text":"不\n協 8\n用說那麼多啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:06:41.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:07:01.254286+08:00","text":"我覺得在全國各縣市裡面，不管是中部，從臺中，接下去是嘉義，你說彰化也\n有、新竹也有、桃園也有，其實臺北市也有、新北市也有，甚至臺東也有，無人機的產業大家\n共同來支持。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:07:01.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:07:05.682857+08:00","text":"我說這些沒有半句在抹黑你，都是事實的重現啦！謝謝。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:07:06.111429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:07:07.397143+08:00","text":"范雲委員，麻煩控制一下時間，好不好？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:07:07.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:07:07.540000+08:00","text":"我們要……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:07:08.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:07:09.140000+08:00","text":"好，我儘量簡短。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:07:09.903636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:07:23.254286+08:00","text":"因為在野黨有質疑這個預算的編列，事實上大家可以看一下，亞洲無\n人機新創計畫 112年就核定了，後來是在去年又核定了這個統籌的計畫。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:07:23.706667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:07:39.406667+08:00","text":"因為在野黨說要等你們\n那個條例通過之後才能處理，我要講的事情是，我們當然是支持國防部主導的，可是現在這個\n統籌計畫其實是本來就在進行的事情，而且我看到有一部分是人才培育。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:07:39.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:08:07.358182+08:00","text":"其實現在各個國家都\n在教育領域中做無人機的教育，英國有一個 Reach for the Sky的計畫，就是要進入中小學，引導\n學生學習程式邏輯、飛行控制；連韓國都有無人機運動的計畫，把它做為競賽；美國的航空總\n署還推動了大專院校培訓倡議計畫，所以人才的培訓是整個無人機生態系重要的一環。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:08:07.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:08:25.317778+08:00","text":"如果你們把這個統籌的預算刪減的話，教育部就有 7 個計畫被刪減掉了，其中還有 2 個計畫\n有接近 3 億的經費，是要給地方政府補助高中無人機相關經費和補助國中、國小無人機的相關\n經費，這些教育怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:08:25.762222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:08:31.397143+08:00","text":"其實這 7 個計畫被你們刪減掉的話，對國家下一代的教育影響很大\n。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:08:31.721818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:08:47.317778+08:00","text":"今天絕對不只是產業，也不只是國防部的一個採購案，我們要講的事情是，這個預算送進來\n已經 335 天了，這些計畫其實去年早就已經核定了，所以請大家支持一下。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:08:52.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:08:59.358182+08:00","text":"像教育部這些計畫\n不應該在這個時候減列，而且它是本來早就應該進行的人才培育。謝謝。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:08:59.682857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:09:03.040000+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員的發言跟控制時間，非常感謝。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:09:03.682857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:09:10.540000+08:00","text":"各位黨團幹部、各位列席委員，我想再發言下去以後還是要處理……好，現在請張秘書長。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:09:09.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:09:23.290000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，可能有幾點要表達：第一個，剛剛傅總召有講說，國民黨的版本 2,400\n億比 2,100 億還要多，但 2,100 億加上 442 億就超過 2,400 億了。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:09:23.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:09:27.547143+08:00","text":"所以這個是不是貴黨團想要刪\n除行政院、經濟部這筆預算的原因？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:09:28.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:09:43.404286+08:00","text":"第二個，國民黨黨團這個提案要求行政院暫停實施統籌型\n計畫，115 年度相關部會編列之統籌型計畫預算全數減列，這不就證明了為什麼行政院要提出特\n別條例的原因？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:09:43.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:09:59.190000+08:00","text":"因為如果不提出特別條例，按照貴黨團或在野黨團的意見編在年度預算裡面，\n就是一個主決議、一個提案，想刪就可以全部刪除，我不知道這樣子是不是符合貴黨所稱你們\n也支持無人機計畫這個想法。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:09:59.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:07.290000+08:00","text":"我想如果支持無人機計畫，就不要刪除無人機的預算，如果支持\n國軍，就支持行政院版的特別條例。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:07.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:09.190000+08:00","text":"以上說明。院長……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:11.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:12.946667+08:00","text":"國民黨很堅持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:12.946667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:13.946667+08:00","text":"好的，沒問題，請發言。協 9","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:13.643636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:15.098182+08:00","text":"因為從這一屆一開始……","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:15.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:25.306667+08:00","text":"朝野協商讓全國人民看到這麼難看，就是他們最喜歡點名，然後人身攻擊。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:25.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:34.203333+08:00","text":"我們在這\n裡再次強調，我們都沒有對他們人身攻擊，如果再這樣，國民黨退出協商，很堅持！","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:34.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:36.168182+08:00","text":"再做人身\n攻擊，我們就退出！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:36.168182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:37.168182+08:00","text":"……人身攻擊……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:37.168182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:38.168182+08:00","text":"哪邊……人身攻擊……","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:37.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:10:46.613333+08:00","text":"第一個，我要講清楚，剛剛他們又在「竹篙湊菜刀」，你看！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:10:46.946667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:11:03.190000+08:00","text":"又在這種情緒勒索，什\n麼教育要怎麼樣、什麼無人機怎麼樣，教育的預算、其他的預算編在各部會裡面，不是這 442\n億，又在這裡情緒勒索……","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:11:03.190000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:11:04.190000+08:00","text":"你這下面……","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:11:03.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:11:19.404286+08:00","text":"又在「竹篙湊菜刀」，教育部的 9億 2,640萬，這個明明就不是在這個 442億裡，故\n意扯到這裡來。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:11:19.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:11:26.110000+08:00","text":"說謊如果已經成為生活的日常，人民都看不到真相！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:11:26.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:11:38.160000+08:00","text":"我們要再次講，這 442 億就是一個新的計畫，它確實在送預算之前，行政院還沒有核定，我\n們並不是反對，只是程序上是不合理的。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:11:38.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:11:46.206154+08:00","text":"但是我們還要再次強調，我要回應剛剛講的，什麼叫\n做 1 兆 2,000 億、什麼叫 7,800 億？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:11:47.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:06.797778+08:00","text":"7,800 億是軍購有後續延壽保障，可以保護我們軍人，用的\n東西如果零件不足，後續維修，美國國會、美國的國家是保證的，現在他們買的那些東西，國\n外採購的價格是一個大的謎團。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:08.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:19.490000+08:00","text":"第二個是商業採購，那不是軍購、不是國家保證，來一個商售\n，中間有多少回扣、有多少貪污、有多少腐敗？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:21.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:22.373333+08:00","text":"為什麼……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:22.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:23.373333+08:00","text":"主席，這也是人身攻擊啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:23.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:24.373333+08:00","text":"合理的質疑！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:24.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:25.373333+08:00","text":"主席，這是人身攻擊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:25.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:26.373333+08:00","text":"傅總召，你這個才是人身攻擊吧！","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:26.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:27.373333+08:00","text":"為什麼賣茶葉的可以來賣炸藥？","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:27.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:28.373333+08:00","text":"傅總召，如果有什麼……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:28.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:29.373333+08:00","text":"為什麼你們國民黨的馬文君可以在……的時候，把相關的名字說出來？","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:27.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:28.373333+08:00","text":"為什麼在立法院……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:28.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:29.373333+08:00","text":"聽聽看民眾的說法……","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:29.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:30.373333+08:00","text":"顧立雄在立法院承諾的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:30.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:31.373333+08:00","text":"尊重別人發言，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:31.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:32.373333+08:00","text":"尊重別人發言！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:32.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:33.373333+08:00","text":"行政院……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:33.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:34.373333+08:00","text":"國民黨的馬文君有沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:34.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:35.373333+08:00","text":"為國家、為人民看守荷包，有什麼不對？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:35.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:36.373333+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:36.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:37.373333+08:00","text":"協 10\n主席作宣告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:31.706667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:12:32.373333+08:00","text":"有什麼不對？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:12:32.373333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:17:33.506667+08:00","text":"第 4案保留，我們準備進入第 5案，休息 10分鐘。","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:17:33.506667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:22:34.640000+08:00","text":"休息（15時 12分）\n繼續開會（15時 22分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:22:34.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:22:36.417778+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，我們繼續開會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:22:36.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:22:56.473333+08:00","text":"特別跟黨團幹部還有列席的行政官員報告，我們保留是第二輪還要再來，今天是第一輪，我\n們第一次來朝野協商，大家有意見，沒辦法達成一致，可能就先保留了，回過來第二輪的時候\n，我們會繼續討論，並不代表保留就送院會了，敬請大家能夠了解我們這樣做這樣的處置。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:22:56.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:23:04.417778+08:00","text":"我們進入第 5案，台灣民眾黨黨團所提的通刪第 5案，請台灣民眾黨黨團發言。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:23:07.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:23:08.830000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:23:09.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:23:55.830000+08:00","text":"面對我們 115年度的總預算，高達 3兆 350億元的中央政府總預算，民進\n黨政府在多項的計畫當中，暴露出預算浮編、迴避監督、浪費公帑的具體實證，所以台灣民眾\n黨黨團強力主張，我們必須要祭出最嚴格的通案刪減，針對各機關的業務費、媒體宣傳費、國\n外旅費及首長特別費進行大比例的刪減。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:23:58.573333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:24:37.544286+08:00","text":"為了避免行政院重演 114年度中央政府總預算的覆轍，\n在當時 114年的通刪當中，行政院就給地方政府一般性的補助款及計畫型的補助款作為通刪預算\n科目的調整，造成當時整個預算跟地方補助混亂的狀況。","quality":0.723},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:24:40.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:25:43.230000+08:00","text":"所以在本次我們通刪的提案裡面，我\n們已經明確地載明，總刪減數未達 592 億 6,400 萬元，也就是通刪總預算的 2%，要以我們提案\n第 1 項到第 10 項的項目去補足，絕對不可以用對地方政府的一般性補助款、獎補助費、對直轄\n市政府的補助及對各縣市政府的補助，還有本院依預算法第五十四條規定已經同意先行動支的\n預算去補足通刪數，這是為了避免 114年的狀況再次發生。","quality":0.646},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:25:45.574444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:26:16.380000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨在這裡也必須嚴正地告訴所有的社會大眾，我們很嚴謹地進行預算的通刪，但是\n通刪之後行政院依然握有將近 3 兆元的預算，這麼龐大的國家資源對執政黨的施政絕對是綽綽\n有餘。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:26:18.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:26:41.883333+08:00","text":"通刪的刪減數跟凍結的目的絕對不是要癱瘓國家，也不是要癱瘓行政，而是要真正地替\n人民看緊荷包，我們要求相關單位要真正地把預算用在刀口上。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:26:42.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:27:08.520000+08:00","text":"在這裡我也要跟民進黨政府說，如果所謂 3 兆元的預算還不能好好地帶領執政團隊為國家建\n設、為人民服務，那絕對就是執政無能，應該要下台負責。","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:27:09.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:27:31.700000+08:00","text":"這就是我們依過去預算審查的慣例\n提出強而有力，能夠真正嚴加審查預算的通刪提案，請各黨團支持。謝謝。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:27:31.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:27:36.221667+08:00","text":"等一下三個黨團發言完畢之後會請陳主計長跟張秘書長發言，好嗎？","quality":0.036},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:27:36.221667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:27:40.743333+08:00","text":"現在民進黨黨團\n要發言嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:27:40.743333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:27:40.965556+08:00","text":"陳培瑜委員請。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:27:42.822222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:27:50.418182+08:00","text":"針對剛剛民眾黨黨團自己的提案說明，我要說去年的此時此刻大家就坐在這邊，稿子\n差不多啦！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:27:51.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:27:54.263333+08:00","text":"意思就是說，民眾黨實質監督的內容到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:27:54.396667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:28:04.325714+08:00","text":"你們在意的到底是什麼，其實我\n還是沒有聽清楚，可是我們來看一下你們自己手上的提案內容，我想請剛剛發言的委員來看一\n下手上的這張。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:28:04.754286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:28:19.732308+08:00","text":"我光是講媒宣費就好，「媒體政策及業務宣導費」統刪 60%，你們的寫法甚至\n還說委員會的刪減數如果超過通案的決議刪減數額，則以各委員會審查的刪減數為準。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:28:20.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:28:25.373333+08:00","text":"協 11\n我不知道你們哪裡來的靈感，認為「媒體政策及業務宣導費」要統刪 60%？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:28:26.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:28:31.906667+08:00","text":"不知道是不是某\n一位國民黨的不分區委員因為用了這個方法在非常多委員會統刪了非常多的媒宣費？","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:28:32.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:28:59.540000+08:00","text":"我不確定\n你們是不是跟這樣的委員學習，可是我要說此時此刻我們在協商的時候已經是 7 月 29 號了，先\n是藍、白兩黨不認真審預算，拖到最後一刻才在補寫作業、補寫考卷，你們最怕看到的就是等\n到新年度的預算書送進來，全臺灣的人民就會看到國會最大的藍、白兩黨把 2 年的預算一起審\n，你們會覺得丟臉，所以你們坐在這裡想要趕快過水、趕快處理。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:00.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:29:03.817778+08:00","text":"我就問，媒宣費這一題到底\n哪裡惹到你們了？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:04.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:29:11.790000+08:00","text":"我想問，到 7 月 29 號的現在對於已經發包下去、已經在執行的，請問你要他\n怎麼辦？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:12.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:29:13.640000+08:00","text":"這是第一個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:14.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:29:16.807143+08:00","text":"第二個，你們對媒宣費還覺得有疑義嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:16.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:29:18.664286+08:00","text":"你們很不開心嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:18.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:29:24.664286+08:00","text":"我唸一段話給你們聽一下，我不\n要告訴你這是誰說的，但是請你們聽一聽。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:24.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:29:40.616667+08:00","text":"這個是你們藍、白的縣市首長說的，他說：「我相\n信，因為媒體宣傳費各局處都還是會需要透過專業來進行相關的宣傳，而且每一次活動相關的\n規劃內容形態也都會不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:41.394444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:29:50.550000+08:00","text":"」他說：「宣傳的效益如果可以擴大，會有努力的空間，既然有\n議員提出來指教，就會來檢視。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:29:50.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:30:14.480000+08:00","text":"」講這句話的市長，他的媒宣費並沒有被粗暴的對待，雖然議\n員提出了他的實質監督，市長也公開的回復，我來告訴你他用了多少錢，光是他們的觀光傳播\n局花了 9,407 萬，他們的體育局花在相關的媒宣費 8,415 萬，文化局花了 6,939 萬。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:30:16.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:30:21.786667+08:00","text":"這個是臺北\n市蔣萬安說的，花了將近 1.28 億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:30:22.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:30:47.083333+08:00","text":"我們再來看侯友宜的新北市花了 1.62 億，以上我說的全部都\n是媒宣費，桃園花了 8,700 萬，臺中市花了 4,900 萬，花蓮花了 2.2 億，花蓮果然是非常了不起\n的縣市，雲林花了 5,737 萬，這些都是實實在在的媒宣費。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:30:47.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:31:12.678571+08:00","text":"至於在立法院裡面發生媒宣費被刪，\n我所在的教文委員會裡面，文化部積極、認真的跟相關的提案委員說明了媒宣費花到哪裡，不\n聽就是不聽，要刪就是要刪，甚至相關提案是用複製貼上的方法貼到不同的委員會；甚至在一\n輪提案之後，放話恐嚇威脅各部會首長說我們二輪提案見！","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:31:13.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:31:21.116667+08:00","text":"這個是藍白立委的素質，這是藍白\n立委說的話，我不確定媒宣費到底對你們來說是多麼大的恐懼，把相關業務對國人說清楚有很\n難嗎？","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:31:21.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:31:23.096154+08:00","text":"把相關活動辦出來有很難嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:31:23.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:31:41.027778+08:00","text":"這些事情是中央在做的，如果中央在做的事情跟地方在做\n的是一樣的，透過辦活動、政令宣導、很多的政策宣導把事情講清楚，讓人民知道不要有任何\n訊息被漏接，不要有人被忽略，這些事情地方可以做，為什麼中央不能做？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:31:41.602941+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:31:43.132353+08:00","text":"你們到底有多麼害\n怕中央的施政被地方的人民知道？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:31:43.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:31:49.107143+08:00","text":"再來，剛剛我所說的那些數字，請問在各地方議會有受到粗暴的對待、不當的對待嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:31:49.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:31:53.083333+08:00","text":"這些\n縣市首長有被他們的民意代表霸凌嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:31:53.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:32:02.180000+08:00","text":"但我們看見的是立法院所有藍白立委共同在霸凌各部會\n首長，光是媒宣費這件事情荒謬至極！","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:32:02.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:32:18.568889+08:00","text":"我接下來要說，更可笑的是出國旅費，如果對於到大陸\n地區，你們有疑問，我說的是中國這個極權獨裁國家，你們認為各部會首長出差到那邊有疑問\n，你們要處理，我沒有意見，但我們來看光是其他出國費用，你們做了什麼樣的處理？","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:32:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:32:45.800000+08:00","text":"去年一\n樣坐在這邊，你們針對監察院在做的人權宣導工作相關國際會議……我想請剛剛發言委員聽一\n聽，去年我就坐在這裡，當時你們不只羞辱國家人權委員會在做的事情、羞辱監察院長，今年\n繼續用一樣的方法，所以我會說你們的說詞、你們的說帖、你們的寫法，甚至沒有創意、沒有\n新意。協 12","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:32:45.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:32:46.800000+08:00","text":"沒有時間限制……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:32:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:32:48.700000+08:00","text":"剛剛你們講話有時間限制嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:32:48.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:32:49.900000+08:00","text":"憑什麼我說話就要有時間限制？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:32:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:32:51.333333+08:00","text":"主席，我可以繼續說嗎\n？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:32:54.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:32:58.223333+08:00","text":"可以，但是麻煩稍微控制一下時間，好不好？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:32:58.223333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:33:02.400000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳培瑜委員。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:33:02.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:33:04.300000+08:00","text":"光是人權這件事情，你們有多麼害怕被人家知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:33:04.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:33:06.790000+08:00","text":"我就問，你們有多害怕，你們待會\n兒自己要不要說一說？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:33:08.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:33:10.747143+08:00","text":"你們民眾黨黨團的提案是怎麼說監察院的？","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:33:12.032857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:33:26.736154+08:00","text":"監察院身為國際監察組織還\n有伊比利美洲監察使聯盟的正式會員，他們必須要出國進行交流會議，今年就訂 11 月在阿根廷\n舉辦，去年在別的國家，你們要擋，今年繼續擋。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:33:27.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:33:42.708182+08:00","text":"國家人權委員會是亞太地區國家人權機構論\n壇的成員、觀察員之一，臺灣好不容易千辛萬苦突破外交困境，所有外交人員的努力、所有人\n權委員的努力，你們有看在眼裡嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:33:42.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:33:48.723333+08:00","text":"他們好不容易為臺灣爭取到這麼一點點的國際地位，以觀\n察員身分出席，哪裡礙到你們了？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:33:48.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:33:52.690000+08:00","text":"出席相關的 APF年會，你們一樣擋他的出國旅費。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:33:52.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:07.334444+08:00","text":"我要跟各位藍白委員報告，115 年 APF 年會 12 月 4 號在約旦召開，如果你們今天相關旅費全\n部都要刪除，讓他們沒辦法執行，是不是我們好不容易爭取到的外交地位、外交空間就會因此\n而消失？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:07.556667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:11.890000+08:00","text":"當臺灣的外交地位、外交空間因此而消失，到底得利的是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:12.056667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:14.428462+08:00","text":"難道是這些藍白的委員\n嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:14.582308+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:18.667778+08:00","text":"你們真的不樂見臺灣在國際地位可以有發聲的空間嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:19.032857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:24.690000+08:00","text":"韓院長不是才剛出席國際的很多會\n議，不是才帶很多跨黨派的委員一起出國嗎？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:25.197692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:26.736154+08:00","text":"所以這些事情是為了什麼？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:27.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:52.093333+08:00","text":"你們可以不願意臺灣團結，為了自己的政治利益做政治操\n作，但是在國際上臺灣就是一個國家，臺灣就是一個需要被看見的地方，所以光是出國旅費跟\n媒宣費，我今天沒有要對任何人戴上紅帽子，我也不想抹紅，因為上次有某一個在野黨委員在\n教文說不要抹紅，但我今天就問，在不抹紅的前提下，請問臺灣被看見，哪裡礙到你們了？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:52.226667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:55.435000+08:00","text":"所\n以你們擋了出國旅費、你們擋了媒宣費，接下來你們要擋什麼？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:56.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:34:59.016667+08:00","text":"難道我又要聽到你們要叫部長自己寫臉書嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:34:59.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:35:06.127778+08:00","text":"所以難道我也可以說，臺北市蔣萬安，\n你就叫你的殷瑋繼續拍影片、發臉書、做抹黑的圖卡？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:35:06.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:35:08.168182+08:00","text":"這樣是你們願意看見的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:35:08.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:35:09.268571+08:00","text":"誰是雙標？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:35:09.411429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:35:10.697143+08:00","text":"我想大家看得非常清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:35:10.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:35:14.686154+08:00","text":"陳培瑜委員表達很詳盡，我們現在請翁曉玲委員，請發言。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:35:17.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:35:22.754286+08:00","text":"好，這話說從頭，為什麼我們今天的預算要拖到 7月底才審議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:35:23.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:35:46.840000+08:00","text":"始作俑者、罪魁禍首\n就是民進黨政府的卓榮泰還有賴清德，因為他們不公布法律、不副署法律、不依法編列預算，\n所以在野黨這邊強烈的表示抗議，認為必須要完成這些憲政義務，而且必須要依法編列軍人加\n給之後，我們再來審中央政府總預算。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:35:47.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:36:00.873333+08:00","text":"但是在韓院長的召集協商之下，我們也退讓了，我們也\n考量到苦民所苦，還是需要給行政機關這些費用去用，所以我們也認真審查這一次的預算。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:36:01.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:36:21.880000+08:00","text":"我\n還記得，當時院長在召開到底要不要審預算的時候有說，行政院要提出軍公教待遇條例草案的\n議題，行政院到現在有送出軍公教待遇條例草案嗎？沒有！協 13","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:36:23.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:36:24.986154+08:00","text":"委員，院長協商的時間是 6個月……","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:36:24.986154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:36:25.986154+08:00","text":"我是司法及法制委員會委員，沒有！6個月。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:36:25.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:36:28.806667+08:00","text":"我現在要再講、我現在要再講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:36:29.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:36:50.980000+08:00","text":"好，雖然他們沒有送，可是我們還是審了，我現在要講的是，在去年針對媒宣費，我\n們本來也就是通案刪減 60%，有些部會是全刪，包含文化部在內，可是我們也看到文化部在去\n年這一年裡面，他們沒有做任何業務宣導嗎？有啊！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:36:51.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:36:57.826154+08:00","text":"也做得不錯，他們辦了一些活動，文化部\n部長不是自己也很認真的去宣傳嗎？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:36:57.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:37:13.646667+08:00","text":"他們自己回復給我們的說明都說，他們業務單位可以透過\n各式各樣的方式，在臉書 PO 文、召開記者會來做業務宣導，我要講的是，媒宣費本來就不是必\n要費用，如果今天……","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:37:13.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:37:15.780000+08:00","text":"我剛剛唸的那段話，你要不要去講給蔣萬安聽？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:37:16.646667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:37:19.757778+08:00","text":"培瑜委員，麻煩尊重一下發言委員，拜託。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:37:19.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:37:21.757778+08:00","text":"他總是很愛這樣插嘴。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:37:21.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:37:50.850000+08:00","text":"好，我要講的是，媒宣費本來就不是政府支出的必要費用，更\n何況我要講的是民進黨部會機關的首長，各個能言善道、口才極好，陸委會梁文傑副主委說他\n一個人就可以用他那一張嘴去對抗中共的文宣，我非常的欽佩。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:37:51.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:38:14.200000+08:00","text":"我也認為其他部會機關的首長\n都有這個能力可以做到把自己的業務宣導講好、業務做好，不需要浪費民脂民膏，每年花幾十\n億去做媒宣而且沒有效果，重點是有效果則罷，還沒有效果。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:38:14.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:38:30.963333+08:00","text":"我們看了很多文化部做的一些宣\n傳影片或是陸委會或其他的機關做宣傳影片，點閱次數只有幾十次、上百次，這樣的業務宣傳\n費，該花嗎？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:38:31.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:38:32.840000+08:00","text":"當然不該花。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:38:35.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:38:45.745000+08:00","text":"今天我們韓院長隨便 PO 一個文幾十萬人看，如果說今天哪個部會，\n你們今天 PO一個文、做一個影片，有像這麼好的效果，我當然全力支持。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:38:45.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:39:03.774545+08:00","text":"我現在講的就是民進黨政府每個部會首長，大家的口才都很好，能言善道，你們都可以把你\n們的業務講得非常的好，現在我們看到的就是很多部會機關到底是不是真的在做媒宣？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:39:04.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:39:25.920000+08:00","text":"我看都\n不是在為我們國家、政府機關做文宣，看起來都在為民進黨做文宣，所以我今天要講的是，不\n是臺灣沒被看見，民進黨可能更擔心的是如果沒有這筆文宣費，他就不被看見，而我們基本上\n就是要嚴審媒宣費。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:39:26.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:39:36.097778+08:00","text":"我還是要強調那句話，錢要用在刀口上，如果今天我們的部會首長都這麼\n能幹，可以把他的業務講得很好，我們何必要編媒宣費？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:39:36.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:39:58.360000+08:00","text":"而且這不是小錢，都是幾十億、幾十\n億，還有更多的媒宣費是藏在各個計畫項目裡面的活動費用，如果真的把它撈出來，我告訴大\n家，是上百億，把這些錢省下來，真正去補助文化團體等等，難道不好嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:39:59.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:40:12.150000+08:00","text":"我今天是就事論事\n來談這件事情，所以回歸到今天民眾黨黨團提的通案刪減理由，我非常的支持。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:40:12.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:40:31.550000+08:00","text":"除此之外，我\n還提議，如果待會談到關於特別費的刪除，第一個，我非常支持特別費的刪除，但是我認為可\n能還少了幾個機關，應該要加上去，就是教育部部長的特別費，還有中研院院長的特別費，我\n建議應該要全數刪除，以上。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:40:36.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:40:37.932353+08:00","text":"我們三個黨團第一輪發言已經發言完畢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:40:38.216667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:40:49.960000+08:00","text":"現在請行政部門表達意見，麻煩請陳主計長發言，\n張秘書長請準備，黃秘書長也請準備。協 14","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-07-29T15:40:51.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:40:57.720000+08:00","text":"院長，在此我把近年來幾個通案刪減的情形做一個說明。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-07-29T15:40:58.342222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:41:15.620000+08:00","text":"近年來總預算刪減除了\n114 年以外，大部分刪減的比率都是介於 1.1 到 1.2，112 年、113 年又特別減掉、扣除，譬如說\n撥補勞保基金的部分會予以扣除。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-07-29T15:41:16.453333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:41:37.120000+08:00","text":"關於 114 年度的情形，本來是刪減 2,075 億，刪減率是 6.62%\n，但是我們後來又辦理追加，回編了 734億，如果又排除台電的 1,000億，大概刪減數是 341億\n，這是 114年度的部分。","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-07-29T15:41:38.453333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:41:47.953333+08:00","text":"115 年度的部分，我們是建議，第一個，是不是建議比照往例扣除勞保基金的部分？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-07-29T15:41:48.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:41:59.786667+08:00","text":"第二個，\n扣除先行動支新興計畫 718 億的部分，這樣子的話，如果用以往 1.2 的基礎來算，大概目標是\n341 億。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-07-29T15:42:00.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:42:50.583333+08:00","text":"至於各科目刪減的比率，像特別費、媒體宣導費的刪減比率都高達 60%，國內旅費也達\n到 20%，因為現在已經 7 月了，如果刪減比率過高，就會影響到部會整個正常的運作和計畫的\n執行，所以我們建議，是不是比照 113 年度的刪減比率，譬如說委辦費 10%降為 5%；國外旅費\n能不能從 60%降為 5%；媒體宣導費能不能從 60%降為 25%；一般事務費從 10%降為 3%；國內\n旅費能不能夠不刪，以上建議，謝謝。","quality":0.801},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:42:50.916667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:42:54.027778+08:00","text":"謝謝陳主計長，監察院黃秘書長先發言，好嗎？","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:42:54.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:42:56.027778+08:00","text":"行政院張秘書長請稍待。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-07-29T15:42:56.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:42:58.116667+08:00","text":"謝謝院長以及各黨團協商代表、委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-07-29T15:42:58.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:43:30.083333+08:00","text":"黃適卓在此代表監察院向協商會議報告，這\n次民眾黨黨團提案，就國外旅費及出國教育訓練的部分，監察院是全數刪除的，這邊要特別說\n明，今年下半年監察院有兩個非常重要的國際組織要參與，這是監察院花了非常大的力氣，好\n不容易突破封鎖，奮力爭取到在這兩個國際組織成為正式會員以及觀察員，目的是要讓世界看\n見臺灣。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-07-29T15:43:30.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:43:56.050000+08:00","text":"其中一個是國際監察組織（IOI）裡面的伊比利美洲監察使聯盟（FIO），我們已經是正\n式會員了，如果今年 11 月份的阿根廷大會我們沒辦法參加的話，可能在國際上會影響到我們的\n會籍等等相關的部分，換言之，這對我們會籍的影響非常重大。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-07-29T15:43:56.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:44:39.916667+08:00","text":"另外一個是國家人權委員會，自 112年起，我們也以觀察員身分出席了亞太地區國家人權機構\n論壇（APF），這個 APF 將在 12 月 4 號於約旦召開，在國際人權組織裡面，它是一個非常重大\n、重要的亞太地區國家人權機構、團隊，我們好不容易建立起一個國家人權的世界聲望以及聲\n名，相信未來有必要讓我們再去參加，這個部分也要特別向大會來說明。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-07-29T15:44:40.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:44:55.750000+08:00","text":"另外，以往參加這個\n會議都是由我們院長或副院長帶隊，所以我們院長、副院長相關的出國費用也請能夠予以保留\n，讓我們院長或副院長能夠帶隊出席相關會議，以上說明。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:44:56.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:45:00.083333+08:00","text":"謝謝黃秘書長很清楚、扼要的說明，非常感謝。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:45:00.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:45:01.750000+08:00","text":"我們請行政院張秘書長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:45:02.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:45:10.283333+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，謝謝各黨的委員們，因為民眾黨黨團的提案非常多，所以容許我花一點\n時間說明。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:45:10.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:45:34.260000+08:00","text":"我相信在場很多委員先進應該有一點既視感，在去年（2025 年）中央政府總預算在\n紛紛擾擾當中於 1 月 21 號由韓院長宣告三讀通過，之後引發社會譁然，當時三讀通過刪除\n2,075億，後來經過追加，最後刪除 1,341億。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:45:34.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:45:44.260000+08:00","text":"在這 1,341億當中，如果扣除撥補台電的 1,000億\n，最後是刪除 341億，這也是主計長剛剛所講的，大概是 1.12%。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:45:50.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:46:18.970000+08:00","text":"第二，再過幾天就是 8 月了，今年已經過了 60%，去年 1,341 億扣掉撥補台電 1,000 億是 341\n億，如今民眾黨黨團卻提出要刪除 592 億，去年是在 1 月審預算，今年都快 8 月了還在審預算\n協 15\n，而且要刪 592億，照比例來講合理嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:46:20.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:46:33.853333+08:00","text":"第三，今年已經過了 60%，在民眾黨黨團的提案裡面有 5 個案子要通刪 60%，合理嗎？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:46:34.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:46:42.120000+08:00","text":"已經\n過了 60%，今年只剩下 40%的時間，你們卻要通刪 60%，顯屬不合理。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:46:40.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:47:00.553333+08:00","text":"第四，就執行面來講，以去年來說，大陸旅費執行了 48%，國外旅費執行了 75.6%，出國教育\n訓練執行了 62.4%，國內旅費執行了 78.6%，這些如果都通刪 60%，那麼行政部門沒有辦法執行\n。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:47:04.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:47:35.516154+08:00","text":"尤其我必須幫中央政府所有的公務員說一句公道話，國內旅費並不是用在國內旅遊，而是公\n務員到各地出差的出差費用，去年在立法院韓院長最辛苦，折騰這麼久，刪了這麼多預算，最\n後國內旅費只刪了 5.7%，在這個時候如果又要再刪這麼多，是不是大家現在協商根本就是白忙\n一場？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:47:35.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:47:49.596667+08:00","text":"剩下沒幾天就要 8月了，行政院 116年度預算的籌編會議都已經開過了，昨天周萬來秘書\n長也來參與行政院的籌編會議，是不是還要再花時間追加回來呢？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:47:51.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:47:53.316667+08:00","text":"有必要這樣子對待辛苦的公\n務員嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:47:55.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:48:08.474286+08:00","text":"第五，去年經過追加預算之後，委辦費、一般事務費從歷年的刪 3%到 5%，去年最後追加回\n來，刪了 6.8%到 6.9%。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:48:08.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:48:18.902308+08:00","text":"軍事設備費去年也在社會的壓力之下，從本來刪 3%變成最後刪 0.3%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:48:20.466667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:48:35.070000+08:00","text":"至於媒宣費，報告翁曉玲委員，媒體宣傳費還是需要透過專業來進行相關的宣傳，而且每次活\n動相關的規劃、內容、型態也都不一樣。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:48:37.492222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:48:44.770000+08:00","text":"在臺北市議員林亮君用您剛剛質詢的內容去質詢蔣萬\n安市長時，蔣萬安市長講了這些話。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:48:46.776667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:49:12.050000+08:00","text":"媒宣費總共 34 個機關單位加總 13.79 億元，剛剛是講幾十\n億、上百億，其實不是這個數字，34個機關單位是 13.79億元，平均每個機關 4,057萬元。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:49:13.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:49:36.850000+08:00","text":"以我\n自己服務過的桃園市政府新聞處為例，今年新聞處一個行銷科的宣傳預算是 8,774 萬，比我剛剛\n講的多了 1 倍，地方政府可以，為什麼中央不可以？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:49:37.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:49:53+08:00","text":"我都很支持、也很贊成錢要花在刀口上，\n但是拜託院長主持公道，請各位委員想想看現在的時間，今年已經過了 60%，難道還要再刪\n60%嗎？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T15:49:53.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:49:55+08:00","text":"以上補充說明，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:49:55.956667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:49:57.623333+08:00","text":"謝謝張秘書長的補充說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:49:57.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:50:25.086667+08:00","text":"我知道各位委員都要發言，但是第一輪黨團已經發言完畢了，行政部門 3 個主要的機關也做\n出了說明，現在很明顯沒辦法達成共識，非常明顯，我知道，各位委員不要急，因為你講完邱\n委員也要講，邱委員已經在舉手了，我還沒有點邱委員，請把手放下來，好不好？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:50:24.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:50:44.524286+08:00","text":"第一點，我\n們沒有要達成共識，這是第 5 案，後面還有 1,300 案，我們會回過頭來，我們一定會回過頭來，\n不用擔心，就像第 4 案一樣沒辦法達成共識，我們第二輪再來。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:50:44.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:50:54.620000+08:00","text":"可是現在後面還有 1,300 個案子\n，黨團幹部可以思考一下，而且這個下去以後，我的意思是……","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:50:56.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:50:58.477143+08:00","text":"報告院長，最急的應該是行政院吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T15:50:58.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:51:00.466154+08:00","text":"他們這個預算被拖了三百多天。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:51:00.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:51:04.466154+08:00","text":"我先宣告一個處置方式，各黨團幹部聽一下，好不好？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:51:04.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:51:08.467778+08:00","text":"如果各位認為不足的部分要補充，你\n們再補充。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:51:10.882222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:51:20.410000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨黨團第 5 案通案，各黨團意見沒有辦法達成一致，請各黨團持續溝通，\n因為我們二輪要再來。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:51:20.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:51:55.944286+08:00","text":"容我作以下宣告：為提升協商效率，針對通案刪減用途別項目、通刪比\n率及總刪減金額，我們先保留，讓各黨團針對通刪本案持續溝通，我們先進行後續各委員會第\n一輪的協商，各委員會中的提案涉及到通刪項目者，我們就先併通刪進行處理，以提升協商效\n協 16\n率，這是第一個重點。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:51:56.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:05.896667+08:00","text":"第二個重點，各委員會第一輪之後，我們會召開第二輪，這個時候大家\n有什麼意見，我們再來研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:06.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:25.916667+08:00","text":"第三，我們現在要進行內政委員會，尤其是海洋委員會在高雄，\n他急著要趕回高雄，我們第一個要審海洋委員會，現在開始進行內政委員會的審查，因為他們\n的地點在高雄……","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:26.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:29.583333+08:00","text":"院長，第一輪讓我發言一下，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:30.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:34.050000+08:00","text":"不要急，你們後續有什麼意見，第二輪的時候我們再來，好不好？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:34.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:37.450000+08:00","text":"謝謝主計總處，謝謝行政\n院、監察院。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:37.450000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:38.450000+08:00","text":"我們現在進行內政委員會。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:38.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:49+08:00","text":"主席，有一個權宜問題，因為剛剛傅總召誣衊我講的教育部的預算不在那個無人機裡面\n，可不可以請經濟部長回應一下，我剛剛講的是不是在那裡面？","quality":0.77},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:50.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:52.027778+08:00","text":"部長可以簡單回應一下嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:52.027778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:53.027778+08:00","text":"沒關係，私底下你們有意見可以溝通。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:52.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:52:54+08:00","text":"龔部長，請離席。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T15:52:54.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:53:06.535714+08:00","text":"因為我剛剛私下請問他了，就是在這裡面，還有花蓮馬太鞍的無人機也被你們都刪減，\n在這邊正告大家，不要隨便說我們亂講！","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T15:53:07.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:53:13.410000+08:00","text":"呼叫羅廷瑋、呼叫羅廷瑋、呼叫羅廷瑋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:53:14.173636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:53:32.846667+08:00","text":"現在列席的是海洋委員會管主任委員、海巡署張副主任委員、保育署陸署長，謝謝。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:53:32.846667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:54:06.090152+08:00","text":"各位黨團幹部，為了有效節省時間，我們現在開始進入海洋委員會，歲出部分第 25 款海洋委\n員會主管第 1 項海洋委員會第 339 案，第 25 款第 1 項媒體政策及業務宣導費，我們把它歸入通\n刪部分。","quality":0.068},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:54:06.090152+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:54:39.333636+08:00","text":"進入第 340案，1,744萬 6,000元，我們也併入通刪部分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:54:39.333636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:54:42.803333+08:00","text":"進入第 341 案，許宇甄委員所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正，請問國民黨黨團有沒有意\n見？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:54:43.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:54:49.487143+08:00","text":"沒有意見，許宇甄委員在現場，我們就併委員會決議辦理，文字修正。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:54:50.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:54:58.267143+08:00","text":"進入第 342 案，許宇甄委員所提，業務費 2 億 9,394 萬 6,000 元，我們併委員會決議辦理，文\n字修正。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:01.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:03.870000+08:00","text":"許宇甄委員也在現場，第 342案。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:06.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:08.130000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:08.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:12.196667+08:00","text":"這一案海委會已經有來溝通過了，所以併委員會的凍結數。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:12.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:14.330000+08:00","text":"謝謝許宇甄委員的發言。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:14.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:30.266667+08:00","text":"我們進入一般行政第 1 目第 343 案，鄭天財委員所提，2 億 9,969 萬 3,000 元，併委員會決議\n辦理，文字修正。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:30.781818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:34.377778+08:00","text":"鄭天財委員不在現場，國民黨黨團有沒有意見？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:34.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:36.457143+08:00","text":"沒意見，我們併委員會決議\n辦理，文字修正。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:36.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:48.150000+08:00","text":"進入第 344案，國民黨鄭天財委員所提，改為主決議，國民黨黨團有沒有意見？","quality":0.483},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:48.150000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:49.150000+08:00","text":"改主決議，是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:48.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:50.316667+08:00","text":"沒意見，我們改主決議。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:50.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:57.983333+08:00","text":"協 17\n第 345 案鄭天財委員所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正，國民黨黨團有沒有意見？","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:58.205556+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:55:58.650000+08:00","text":"沒意見\n，好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:55:58.983333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:56:02.150000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 346案海洋業務。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:56:04.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:56:07.453333+08:00","text":"跟院長及各位委員報告，這個案是……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:56:08.273846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:56:11.953333+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨黨團陳昭姿委員的提案，請台灣民眾黨黨團表達意見。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:56:15.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:56:48.763333+08:00","text":"好，這個案子是我們台灣民眾黨黨團提案，就是凍結 500萬，請海洋委員會比照國防\n部，針對同仁的專業加給提升，這是對海洋委員會同仁的關心跟照顧。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:56:51.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:57:13.930000+08:00","text":"對「戰航管加給」的待\n遇，我想大家應該會支持，那予以凍結，最主要我們是要督促海洋委員會能夠來執行、能夠來\n力行，在凍結之後，提出專案報告，經內政委員會同意可以動支，以上。","quality":0.764},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:57:17.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:57:20.287143+08:00","text":"跟委員們報告，謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:57:20.572857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:57:48.930000+08:00","text":"這個案經過張署長有親自跟提案的陳昭姿委員報告以\n後，陳昭姿委員充分地了解，我們也很感謝委員們非常關心海巡同仁的加給，我們會全力來爭\n取，院長也相當的支持，可能最近就會有一個最後的核定，所以陳委員最後是同意併委員會決\n議，合併凍結數。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:57:51.715714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:58:03.180000+08:00","text":"這個案有送到貴黨團，剛剛有跟總召報告，就是連續兩個案，最後陳昭姿委\n員是有同意併委員會決議辦理。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T15:58:05.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:58:06.153636+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T15:58:06.335455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:58:26.251538+08:00","text":"我擔任內政委員會召委審議海洋委員會的預算，在 4 月 29 號的時候，大\n部分的這些提案，剛剛韓院長唸過去的這幾個提案，其實在委員會充分地討論之後，大部分都\n可以說服委員，現在民眾黨陳昭姿委員的這個提案，其實是二輪送案之後提進來的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T15:58:26.713077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:58:57.567778+08:00","text":"我想要說\n明的是，海委會大部分可以說服其他所有內政委員會委員的原因，第一個，它也是國防；第二\n個，我們在整個內政委員會審議的過程裡面，做了相當多的溝通，所以在整個審議的過程裡面\n，海洋委員會是很順利的可以通過，我們有高度共識，以上跟院會協商來說明一下，是不是可\n以儘速讓海洋委員會相關的議案可以通過？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:58:57.956667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:58:59.623333+08:00","text":"謝謝李柏毅委員補充發言。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:58:59.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:01.540000+08:00","text":"陳總召還要補充嗎？請。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:01.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:02.540000+08:00","text":"好，這個案子……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:02.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:04.323333+08:00","text":"對管主委具體所提出的，您同意嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:04.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:10.204286+08:00","text":"包括第 346案，剛剛管主委也有說……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:10.204286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:11.204286+08:00","text":"第 346案 347案兩案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:10.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:31.860000+08:00","text":"其實都是我們為了提升海洋委員會同仁的加給進行溝通，陳昭姿委員有溝通，我們黨\n團剛剛也做一個溝通及了解，我們可以同意併委員會凍結，好不好？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:32.332222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:33.887778+08:00","text":"凍結數就併委員會。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:34.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:36.184286+08:00","text":"OK，\n我們同意。謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:39.763333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:49.163333+08:00","text":"第 346案、第 347案，經過協調達成共識，我們併委員會審查凍結數，謝謝。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:53.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:58.838182+08:00","text":"我們進入第 348 案，國民黨黨團黃仁所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正，國民黨黨團要不\n協 18\n要補充意見？","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:58.838182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T15:59:59.838182+08:00","text":"沒有意見，我們就這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T15:59:59.686667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:04.520000+08:00","text":"進入第 349案，賴士葆委員所提，改減列 50萬元。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:05.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:06.820000+08:00","text":"管主委請表達意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:07.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:14.734286+08:00","text":"這個事情經過溝通以後，我們可以接受，也得到了委員的簽字同意，謝謝。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:15.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:16.734286+08:00","text":"第 349案我們就減列 50萬元。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:19.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:22.853333+08:00","text":"第 350 案，黃仁委員所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:23.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:25.054286+08:00","text":"各位委員有沒有意見？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:25.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:25.840000+08:00","text":"沒有意見\n，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:26.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:31.840000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 351案，賴士葆委員所提，改減列 50萬元，海洋業務海域安全。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:32.006667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:34.673333+08:00","text":"管主委請表達意見。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:35.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:39.054286+08:00","text":"這個案子也跟委員達成了共識以後，委員有簽字同意，謝謝。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:39.625714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:41.054286+08:00","text":"第 351案我們減列 50萬元。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:43.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:49.090000+08:00","text":"第 352 案，黃仁委員所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正，國民黨黨團有意見嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:49.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:49.784444+08:00","text":"沒有意見\n。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:50.228889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:00:54.464286+08:00","text":"我們進入第 353案，徐欣瑩委員所提，文字修正通過。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:00:56.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:08.500000+08:00","text":"我們現在進入海洋委員會海巡署所屬，歲出部分第 2 項海巡署所屬第 1 目一般行政，第 354\n案鄭天財委員所提，改主決議，國民黨黨團有意見嗎？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:08.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:10.464286+08:00","text":"沒有意見，改主決議。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:10.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:21.380000+08:00","text":"第 2 目海巡業務第 355 案，黃仁委員所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正，國民黨黨團有意\n見嗎？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:21.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:21.993636+08:00","text":"沒有意見。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:22.175455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:27.448182+08:00","text":"第 356案，賴士葆委員所提，減列 50萬元，海巡規劃及情報整理費用。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:27.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:29.380000+08:00","text":"請管主委表達意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:29.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:32.380000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長、各位委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:32.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:38.630000+08:00","text":"這個案子有跟委員達成共識以後，減列 50 萬元，我們可\n以同意。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:39.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:41.130000+08:00","text":"第 356案減列 50萬元。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:41.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:47.380000+08:00","text":"第 357案，賴士葆委員所提，改主決議，國民黨黨團有意見嗎？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:47.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:48.201429+08:00","text":"沒有意見。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:48.772857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:53.130000+08:00","text":"進入第 358案，黃仁委員所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正，有意見嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:53.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:54.074444+08:00","text":"沒有意見。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:54.518889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:01:58.630000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 359案，台灣民眾黨黨團所提。撤案。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:01:59.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:00.963333+08:00","text":"第 359案撤案。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:01.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:15.380000+08:00","text":"我們現在進入海洋委員會海洋保育署，歲出部分第 3項海洋保育署第 2目海洋保育業務第 360\n案，賴士葆委員所提，改主決議，國民黨黨團有意見嗎？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:15.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:17.344286+08:00","text":"沒有意見，改主決議。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:17.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:22.175455+08:00","text":"第 361案，林倩綺委員所提，改主決議，有意見嗎？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:22.357273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:23.448182+08:00","text":"沒有意見，改主決議。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:24.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:30.350000+08:00","text":"第 362 案，黃仁委員所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正，國民黨黨團有意見嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:30.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:31.933333+08:00","text":"沒有意見\n，文字修正。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:32.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:37.747143+08:00","text":"第 363 案，黃仁委員所提，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正，有意見嗎？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:38.032857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:40.330000+08:00","text":"沒有意見，改文字修\n正。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:40.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:43.375455+08:00","text":"協 19\n第 364案，賴士葆委員所提，改主決議，有意見嗎？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:43.557273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:44.648182+08:00","text":"沒有意見，改主決議。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:44.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:52.580000+08:00","text":"第 365案，賴士葆委員所提，改減列 150萬元，海洋污染防治清潔費，請管主委表達意見。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:52.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:02:54.580000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長、各位委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:02:55.375455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:03:04.580000+08:00","text":"雖然真的是很忍痛，但是因為有跟委員溝通了很久，最後\n跟委員達成了這個共識，所以我們同意接受，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:03:04.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:03:06.607778+08:00","text":"謝謝管主委忍痛接受。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:03:06.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:03:13.163333+08:00","text":"我們進入第 366案徐欣瑩委員所提，主決議，文字修正通過。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:03:13.496667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:03:22.330000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 367案，徐欣瑩委員所提，主決議文字修正，大家都沒有意見，謝謝。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:03:22.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:03:24.580000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，謝謝各位委員，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:03:24.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:03:26.687143+08:00","text":"謝謝管主委，謝謝各位海洋委員會所有列席官員。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:03:39.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:03:56.460000+08:00","text":"我們進入行政院院本部，謝謝張秘書長列席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:03:57.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:04:28.030000+08:00","text":"行政院歲出部分第 2 款行政院主管第 1 項行政院 16 億 4,715 萬 6,000 元，我們進入第 1 案，\n高金素梅委員所提，減列 1,000 萬元、凍結 1,000 萬元；第 2 案，高金素梅所提，凍結 500 萬元\n。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:04:29.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:04:32.880000+08:00","text":"請張秘書長表達意見好嗎？謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:04:33.676667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:04:34.176667+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:04:34.343333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:04:49.260000+08:00","text":"我兩案簡短說明，第 1 案也趁著這個機會跟國人報告，115 年底基金餘\n額還有 98.5 億，淨值還有 32.7 億，可用現金 8.4 億元，原民發展基金的現金流跟存量都沒有問\n題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:04:49.663846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:04:57.376667+08:00","text":"明年度因為中央政府總預算正在籌編當中，明年度的撥補金額會比今年還要多，我們持續\n跟高金委員在進行溝通。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:04:57.795714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:05:13.376667+08:00","text":"第 2 案的部分，跟院長及大院報告，原民會已經初步修正諮商取得原住民族部落同意參與辦\n法，預計三個月內完成相關法制作業，我們也會持續跟高金委員溝通。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:05:13.732222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:05:21.732222+08:00","text":"是不是可以請院長或是\n各黨團代表同意我們先保留，再來進行溝通處理？謝謝。好的。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:05:21.954444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:05:23.510000+08:00","text":"我們保留第 1案、第 2案。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:05:24.081429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:05:27.510000+08:00","text":"現在進行第 3案，媒體政策及業務宣導費 1,678萬。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:05:32.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:05:34.144286+08:00","text":"第 3案、第 4案、第 5案、第 6案，我們\n就進入通案。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:05:34.715714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:05:43.420000+08:00","text":"我們現在進行第 7案首長特別費，第 7案進入通案……","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:05:43.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:05:51.362308+08:00","text":"不好意思，院長，第 3案我沒有要通案，我是要維持全刪。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:05:53.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:06:00.070000+08:00","text":"先通案保留，第二輪還會再審，我們現在是先保留在通案裡面，二輪的時候再審，這樣比較\n快。","quality":0.378},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-07-29T16:06:01.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:06:03.003333+08:00","text":"案子還是在。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:06:09.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:06:11.447778+08:00","text":"主要是我沒有要通案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-07-29T16:06:11.447778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:06:21.670000+08:00","text":"這個案子最後會再做討論。","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:06:21.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:06:27.627778+08:00","text":"但是媒宣費我沒有要併通案，因為我是全刪。好。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:06:33.037273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:06:50.167143+08:00","text":"第 7 案業務費 3 億 6,559 萬 3,000 元，國民黨黨團提議全數減列 9 月至 12 月的業務費以及\n協 20\n院長特別費，院長特別費我們就列入通案了，現在要討論業務費，請張秘書長發言。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:06:52.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:07:50.884286+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，也請韓院長將心比心，我相信立法院也不會希望下半年的業務費全數被\n刪除，我這邊說明一下，也跟各位委員報告，今年行政院的預算總共是 16.4 億元，扣除 11.4 億\n元的人事費、353 萬元的獎補助費、設備投資 1.3 億、第一預備金 380 萬等，實際上的業務費只\n有 3.6 億，依據這一次對行政院院本部的各項刪除加凍結的提案全部把它加總，已經刪減的金額\n達到 4.3 億了，這個不是只有刪除 9 到 12 月的業務費，形同是把行政院整年的業務費都刪除了\n，顯屬不合理。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:07:52.202222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:09:00.210000+08:00","text":"除了刪除 4.3 億之外，還凍結了 3.3 億，刪除加凍結達到 7.6 億，已經遠超過行政院人事費以\n外所有的預算，去年行政院還有施政計畫、新聞傳播兩項計畫全數遭到刪除，行政院今年做了\n回編的動作，依照預算法，因為預算到目前為止還沒三讀，剛剛有提到行政院 3.6 億的業務費當\n中，依法能夠動支的總共是 2.2 億，因為被刪除了兩個計畫，今年雖然有回編，但都還不能動，\n所以今年能夠依法動支的是 2.2 億，今年也過一半了，所以也花了超過 1 億了，如果按照今天這\n樣的提案，刪除四點多億，請問已經花的一億多，誰可以負責？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:09:00.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:09:03.800000+08:00","text":"這已經是付出去的錢，誰可以\n負責？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:09:04.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:09:19.550000+08:00","text":"我想我們都沒有辦法負責，是一億多喔，所以請委員們三思，行政院依法執行預算，如\n果沒有花才是怠惰，但已經花的又怎麼追得回來呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:09:19.550000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:09:21.990000+08:00","text":"這是第一個。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:09:21.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:09:41.883333+08:00","text":"第二個，我可能要跟委員報告業務費是什麼，業務費包括水電費、網路、電話、員工的健檢\n、心理諮商、EAP，下下個月新的會期又要開始了，院長到立法院進行施政報告的報告影印難道\n也不用錢嗎？","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:09:44.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:09:51.193333+08:00","text":"人民依照憲法有訴願的權利，難道訴願委員會的錢也可以被刪除嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:09:53.192222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:08.047143+08:00","text":"目前行政院\n消保處還有愛爾麗案的團體訴訟、中聯問題油的團體訴訟在進行，這些都在下半年會再進一步\n的進行，難道這些業務費也應該被刪除嗎？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:08.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:18.023333+08:00","text":"我想這應該不會是人民所樂見的，人民更不會樂見\n行政院的員工領薪水，但是業務費卻 1塊錢都沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:21.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:35.397778+08:00","text":"我把刪除業務費對行政院的影響以及這一次 102 項提案對行政院可能造成的影響做一個完整\n的報告，也希望朝野的立委能夠理性來討論，謝謝。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:35.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:39.220000+08:00","text":"我們第 7案沒辦法……就保留。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:39.220000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:40.220000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 8案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:39.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:43.120000+08:00","text":"等一下，院長，你都沒有給我們講話就保留喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:43.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:45.286667+08:00","text":"我已經宣告了，我們現在第 8案……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:45.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:49.466154+08:00","text":"不是，剛剛你還沒有宣告的時候，我就一直舉手，你又不看我，院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:49.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:51.927692+08:00","text":"我們進入第 8案……不是，我們現在針對這個，後面還有一千多案，好不好？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:52.081538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:53.466154+08:00","text":"你有意見隨時\n都可以發……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:53.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:55.438182+08:00","text":"我剛剛有一直舉手，你又不叫我。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:55.438182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:10:59.620000+08:00","text":"張秘書長已經講得非常清楚，而且我就保留起來，到時候我們第二輪……","quality":0.214},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:10:59.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:01.370000+08:00","text":"沒有，院長，你讓我說一下啦。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:02.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:04.230000+08:00","text":"不然這樣，大家都說，3個黨團一人說 2分鐘，這樣好不好？協 21","quality":0.409},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:04.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:06.930000+08:00","text":"不是，你要講的話通通要講。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:07.096667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:08.263333+08:00","text":"我們現在進入第 8案嘛，好不好？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:08.263333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:09.263333+08:00","text":"業務費……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:08.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:11.630000+08:00","text":"不然這樣，院長，我們先說一下業務費就好，我說一下，3分鐘，好不好？拜託！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:12.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:14.430000+08:00","text":"張秘書長講得非常清楚，不要再講了，你已經……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:14.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:18.312353+08:00","text":"不是啊，這個荒謬的提案，我覺得要跟國人報告到底什麼叫業務費？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:18.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:22.230000+08:00","text":"各位大委員們，\n你們在立法院吹的冷氣就是業務費啊……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:22.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:24.263333+08:00","text":"那我是立法院經費稽核委員會的委員……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:24.263333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:25.263333+08:00","text":"剛剛張秘書長已經講了，尊重院長。院長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:24.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:37.930000+08:00","text":"我們一年花多少錢弄冷氣，那韓院長上任之後幫大家修繕茶水間、裝電梯，這些都是\n啊，這是業務費耶，你們這些國民黨委員把業務費刪光光，這樣對嗎？","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:38.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:42.305000+08:00","text":"你們自己都沒有動到立法院……我只是要解釋給大家聽什麼叫業務費嘛。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:42.305000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:43.305000+08:00","text":"尊重院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:42.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:43.763333+08:00","text":"如果他要講，我也要講。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:43.763333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:44.763333+08:00","text":"尊重院長、尊重院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:44.715714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:47.180000+08:00","text":"1年 8億的冷氣費在立法院花下去……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:47.180000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:48.180000+08:00","text":"大家尊重院長……要講吵不完。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:47.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:52.030000+08:00","text":"各位委員，你們手上拿這張叫影印費，你們知道嗎？","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:52.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:54.248182+08:00","text":"你們要把行政院的刪掉嗎，這不\n是很莫名其妙嗎？","quality":0.35},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:54.248182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:55.339091+08:00","text":"尊重院長的宣告。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:55.339091+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:56.430000+08:00","text":"這樣下去請民進黨提案，民進黨認為有爭議，你們提案啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:56.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:11:59.930000+08:00","text":"這是你們國民黨自己提案！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-29T16:11:59.930000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:01.055000+08:00","text":"尊重院長，院長沒有請你發言。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:01.055000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:02.180000+08:00","text":"我們光是看到你們荒謬的……就覺得非常荒謬！","quality":0.278},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:02.180000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:03.305000+08:00","text":"請你們提案，請民進黨提案，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:03.305000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:04.430000+08:00","text":"沒有提案不要發言！","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:04.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:12.030000+08:00","text":"最荒謬的就是刪除 9 到 12 月的業務費，又沒有刪你 8 月之前，你現在已經先用了 9\n到 12月的費用喔，這是超好笑！","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:12.030000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:13.030000+08:00","text":"你沒有發現現在已經 7月底了啊……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:13.030000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:14.030000+08:00","text":"是審 9到 12月啊，7月……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:13.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:14.140000+08:00","text":"那你們有沒有……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:14.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:16.640000+08:00","text":"是誰不審預算，莫名其妙！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:16.640000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:12:44.309318+08:00","text":"是誰不審預算，現在幾月了……","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:12:44.309318+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:13:11.978636+08:00","text":"陳培瑜……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:13:11.978636+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:13:39.647955+08:00","text":"立法院通過的法令，軍人加薪、警察人員退休條例……\n（現場一片混亂）\n協 22","quality":0.185},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:13:39.647955+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:14:07.317273+08:00","text":"休息 10分鐘。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:14:07.317273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:23:38.746923+08:00","text":"休息（16時 12分）\n繼續開會（16時 24分）","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:01.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:07.384286+08:00","text":"我們進入第 8案，謝謝張秘書長，各位黨團幹部請坐，我們進入第 8案，台灣民眾黨的凍結\n業務費……","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:07.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:11.384286+08:00","text":"報告院長，第 8案一樣是業務費，然後就給它凍結耶，院長。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:11.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:12.812857+08:00","text":"請張秘書長表達一些意見，謝謝。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:15.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:21.146667+08:00","text":"報告院長，剛剛業務費的部分我已經完整清楚說明了，我還是希望爭取能夠有足夠\n的預算，謝謝。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:22.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:24.813333+08:00","text":"第 8案保留，我們進入第 9案，翁曉玲委員……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:24.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:28.846667+08:00","text":"不是，院長，你不能故意抬頭不看我們，你這樣頭低低的看不到我們有舉手耶！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:31.525455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:32.798182+08:00","text":"尊重我們提案單位……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:32.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:36.580000+08:00","text":"我沒跟你講話，我跟院長講話，你是院長喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:38.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:40.730000+08:00","text":"你也沒有尊重院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:40.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:42.813333+08:00","text":"我對院長發言，我有跟你講話嗎？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:42.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:44.855000+08:00","text":"你又不是院長，我再說一次，我剛剛說院長！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:44.855000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:24:45.855000+08:00","text":"院長剛剛已經裁示過了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:24:44.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:25:04.550000+08:00","text":"謝謝、謝謝，271 萬 8,000 元業務費、教育訓練費用，翁曉玲委員提減列 100 萬元，麻煩請\n秘書長表達意見。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:25:04.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:25:20.500000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長，也跟提案的翁委員報告，第一個，今年行政院院本部的教育訓練費\n是 271.8 萬元，已經較去年的 308 萬元的預算還要減少了，顯見我們也是有撙節、覈實的編列。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:25:21.083333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:25:35.337778+08:00","text":"第二個，如果要減 100 萬，那就剩下 171.8 萬，只剩下 32 萬可以用，但接下來還有好幾個月。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:25:35.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:25:57.960000+08:00","text":"第三個跟大家報告，依照公務人員訓練進修法施行細則，行政院的正式員額是 573 人，依照這\n個施行細則，我們要編列 58 人，每人 2 萬元左右的教育訓練費，這樣總共是 116 萬，如果刪減\n100 萬，只剩下 32 萬可以用的話，恐怕會影響員工教育訓練的權利。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:25:58.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:26:21.393333+08:00","text":"也跟委員報告，為什麼去\n年的執行狀況略微不理想，主要是因為 ISO/IEC 27701個資的改版進度推遲，所以本來去年要去\n受訓的，延到今年才受訓，這個部分也請委員理解，能夠支持行政院員工的教育訓練費用，謝\n謝。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:26:26.396667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:11.396667+08:00","text":"我為什麼要刪減行政院教育訓練費 100萬，主要是因為從 112年到 114年，我們去看\n他的執行率，112 年編了 106 萬，實際上只用了 29 萬，執行率只有 27%，113 年也是，執行率\n大概 85%，114 年 56.23%，也就是說，其實他每年都超編，今年他編了 271 萬，事實上我刪減\n100 萬，而且我還有特別排除若是要去進行災害防救及國土安全以及消保、食安業務等兩個項目\n的話，基本上這個教育訓練費用我是支持的，其餘的部分應該要減列 100 萬。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:12.037692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:19.230000+08:00","text":"事實上，我本來\n協 23\n也是希望就併通刪案，但是他們看起來不願意，既然如此的話，我就堅持要刪減 100萬。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:19.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:21.576154+08:00","text":"好，第 9案保留，我們進入第 10案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:21.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:23.480000+08:00","text":"報告院長，有人舉手耶！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:26.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:40.376667+08:00","text":"院長，我建議一下，他這個業務費從第 7 案、第 8 案、第 9 案，接下來你再看第 10\n案、第 11 案，我不知道你要怎麼主持下去，我是不是可以請主計長這邊講一下，這樣繼續刪下\n去的話，會不會又超刪？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:41.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:44.800000+08:00","text":"李柏毅委員的意思是這些全部第 8案、第 9案、第 10案、第 11案、第 12案、第 13案、第\n14案、第 15案、第 16案、第 17案……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:47.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:51.200000+08:00","text":"我不是要併案，我是要說這個提案有多荒謬啦！","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:51.753846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:53.446154+08:00","text":"為什麼這個提案會這麼荒謬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:53.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:27:56.600000+08:00","text":"其實在\n委員會裡面就沒有辦法繼續審下去嘛！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:27:56.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:21.377778+08:00","text":"因為沒有一件案子要好好的聽行政單位講，而且那時候\n委員會在審這個案子的時候是 5 月份、6 月份，現在已經是 7 月 29 號，理論上今年度已經過了\n快 7 個月，可能在三讀之後，可能是 8 個月，依照這個邏輯下去講、下去刪的話，請問行政院\n會不會花超過？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:21.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:24.100000+08:00","text":"請問主計總處，我們現在怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:25.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:29.350000+08:00","text":"萬一有超刪或者是花超過的部分，誰要負責\n任？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:29.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:33.466667+08:00","text":"是因為立法院刪得比較慢、審得比較慢要負責任？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:33.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:36.433333+08:00","text":"還是行政院花多了要負責任？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:36.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:37.433333+08:00","text":"到底誰要\n負責任？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:37.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:39.377778+08:00","text":"要公務人員負責任嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:39.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:44.690909+08:00","text":"我覺得這樣是非常非常不合理的做法，院長，一定要請主計長\n講一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:44.872727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:47.433333+08:00","text":"我要聲明，我這是在二輪提案，我不是在一輪提案……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:47.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:50.600000+08:00","text":"對，所以一輪很順利，就是因為你二輪來亂嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:50.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:51.600000+08:00","text":"就是因為你二輪來，就爆炸了嘛！","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:53.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:28:56+08:00","text":"他沒有超過，每一樣都不一樣，你們到底有沒有……","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:28:57.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:29:03.433333+08:00","text":"我剛剛就說了，你之前在教文委員會是怎麼恐嚇文化部長，你說二輪提案見，有立法\n委員這樣像流氓，這樣講話嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:29:05.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:29:07.377778+08:00","text":"怎麼可以人身攻擊呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:29:07.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:29:32+08:00","text":"大家不要急，主計長，你等一下稍微說明一下，容許我先裁決一下、宣告一下，第 9案到第\n14 案全部是業務費，顯然沒有辦法達成共識，我們就保留；第 15 案廖先翔委員改主決議，這個\n沒問題；第 16案到第 20案都是通案，好不好？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:29:32.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:29:35.600000+08:00","text":"大致上就這樣，接下來主計長要補充嗎？請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-07-29T16:29:38.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:29:46.276667+08:00","text":"行政院這裡的業務費是 3.65億，現在刪減是要刪減 4.3億，那就是超過他……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:29:47.181429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:29:50.276667+08:00","text":"秘書長講過了，我知道，請秘書長補充。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:29:51.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:29:58.513333+08:00","text":"雖然院長剛剛已經裁決那幾案併通案，可是我要針對第 12 案補充說明。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:29:59.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:30:46.810000+08:00","text":"在其他業\n務租金的部分，這個主要是租賃辦公室影印設備等等的使用，第一個，今年度的預算其實只較\n2025 年追加後的法定預算多 10%；第二個，也不如委員提案中所稱的，2025（去）年並沒有超\n支，執行率是 99.2%；第三個，也是重點，跟院長及大院報告，這項業務租金截至 6（上個）月\n已經執行了 1,410 萬，如果按照提案刪除 660 萬，則剩下 1,318 萬，還不得流用、不得勻支，那\n協 24\n我真的不知道這個錢該怎麼辦，以上說明。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:30:48.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:30:48.976667+08:00","text":"秘書長謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:30:49.421111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:30:53.128182+08:00","text":"各位委員如果要發言，請針對我剛才宣告之後，大家有什麼寶貴意見請表達。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:30:53.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:31:18.165000+08:00","text":"我再宣告一次，第 9 案到第 14 案保留；第 15 案改主決議；第 16 案到第 20 案是通案；第 21\n案改為主決議；第 22 案業務費減列 50 萬也是一樣，我們就保留，因為也是業務費；第 23 案、\n第 24案還是一樣列入通案。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:31:18.471818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:31:22.040000+08:00","text":"我現在已經宣告完畢了，請委員發言。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:31:22.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:31:30.123333+08:00","text":"我只想講一句話而已，因為張秘書長一直重複地講預算已經什麼三百多天，好像這是\n立法院的過錯一樣……","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:31:30.123333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:31:33.206667+08:00","text":"本來就是你們的過錯啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:31:33.206667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:31:36.290000+08:00","text":"我可以講完嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:31:36.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:31:55.040000+08:00","text":"如果這樣講，去年我們 4 月、6 月就通過軍人加薪、通過警消人事條例的法案，而且\n已經依法公告了，他們只想到政府可能會沒有錢用，他們都不想到百姓、軍人加薪、警消退休\n人員的錢會沒有錢用，家裡會掀不起鍋，是不是？","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:31:55.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:04.213077+08:00","text":"如果你們真的在乎你們的錢，過了時間你們\n會沒錢用，你們應該很早就要來溝通這兩個法案，而且已經公告，就應該依法去執行。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:04.366923+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:07.956667+08:00","text":"你現在\n告訴我說你要依法執行這些業務費用，誰要負這些責任？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:08.067778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:15.290000+08:00","text":"我跟你講誰要負這些責任，誰公告法\n案以後沒有去執行，這些人就應該負責任，這個就是因果，就是他們造成的因！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:15.575714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:23.040000+08:00","text":"所以審查預算\n的慢，不是因為立法院，實在就是因為行政院嘛！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:23.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:32.646667+08:00","text":"這件事情就不用一直再重複說已經過了多少\n天、多少錢沒有用，什麼過去過不了、誰要來負責任，就是行政院要負責任，公告的法案就是\n要做嘛！","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:32.813333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:35.080000+08:00","text":"就這樣子，後面就不用一直重複。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:35.613333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:37.346667+08:00","text":"范雲委員舉了 3次手，范雲委員請發言。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:37.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:45.298182+08:00","text":"我想因為陳玉珍講這樣的話非常違反我們的憲法，雖然他剛剛宣稱他憲法一百分，但我\n看起來應該是零分。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:45.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:53.194286+08:00","text":"憲法就是規定行政院編預算、立法院審預算，基本上……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:53.194286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:54.194286+08:00","text":"我們通過的是法案……","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:53.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:57.298182+08:00","text":"你們的法案基本上就等於是實質的預算……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:57.298182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:32:58.298182+08:00","text":"已經公告了喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:32:57.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:09.257778+08:00","text":"而且剛剛郭昱晴委員在休息的時候就已經告訴大家，國防部都有為軍人加薪，你們的版\n本基本上違反了加薪應該要有的原則，會造成……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:09.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:11.280000+08:00","text":"不合你們意的，你們就是不做嘛，是不是？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:11.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:15.300000+08:00","text":"軍中領導上的困難，顧立雄部長都講過了……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:15.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:17.775000+08:00","text":"法律通過就是要做，已經公告一年多了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:18.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:21.500000+08:00","text":"你們提出違憲的法案通過，用多數暴力，然後把……","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:21.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:22.733333+08:00","text":"誰決定是違憲的？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:22.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:23.733333+08:00","text":"我們要講清楚啊！協 25","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:23.733333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:24.733333+08:00","text":"是范雲委員自己認為是違憲的！","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:24.733333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:25.733333+08:00","text":"卓榮泰認為是違憲……","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:23.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:27.700000+08:00","text":"憲法法庭被你們搞成現在，所以憲法法庭還沒決議啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:27.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:28.700000+08:00","text":"是不是違憲都是你們說了算？","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:27.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:31.042857+08:00","text":"該不該執行預算也是你們說了算？主席……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:31.042857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:32.990909+08:00","text":"我們當然要講清楚……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:32.990909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:33.718182+08:00","text":"不可以插嘴喔！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:33.718182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:34.718182+08:00","text":"主席，可以控制一下嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:33.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:35.650000+08:00","text":"為什麼他可以插嘴？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:35.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:37.700000+08:00","text":"所以每一個委員要講話，我們都可以插嘴囉！","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:37.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:38.700000+08:00","text":"主席，你要制止。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:37.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:41.718182+08:00","text":"我正要建議他，麻煩尊重范雲委員的發言。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:41.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:43.650000+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員的發言。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:43.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:33:45.650000+08:00","text":"郭昱晴委員請發言。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:33:46.261111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:34:21.750000+08:00","text":"我剛剛在休息的時候已經講過了，從整個過去我們看到國軍近年來的待遇跟加薪調整\n部分其實已經是非常頻繁，除了 2024 年、2025 年接連調薪以外，行政院也在 2026 年 7 月拍板\n最新的方案，預告 2026 年 7 月 1 號起，軍公教的專業加給跟主管職務加給要定額調增，同時在\n2027 年，也就是明（116）年會再通案調薪 4%。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:34:22.372222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:34:32.007143+08:00","text":"我現在在講的這些，麻煩在野黨的委員也稍微\n看清楚，不要一直不斷地鬼打牆，一直在講什麼軍公教的加薪。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:34:34.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:34:35.950000+08:00","text":"我現在講話，請尊重……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:34:35.950000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:34:40.150000+08:00","text":"立法院通過法律叫鬼打牆喔！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:34:40.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:34:41.650000+08:00","text":"請尊重我的發言，請尊重我……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:34:41.650000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:34:42.650000+08:00","text":"他說你在跳針、鬼打牆啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:34:42.650000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:34:43.650000+08:00","text":"請尊重我的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:34:42.594444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:35:01.983333+08:00","text":"我們剛剛在講的這些部分，其實你們應該都要先討論清楚、先看清\n楚，剛剛其實主計長也有講了，全案 3.65 億，但問題是現在已經超刪了四點多億，這種狀況我\n不知道大家有沒有既視感？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:35:02.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:35:05.483333+08:00","text":"好，回到剛剛的，我為什麼會出現在這裡？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:35:06.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:35:37.775000+08:00","text":"雖然今天沒有講到文化\n部的預算，但是在我進來之前其實有提到文化的預算，我再次提醒，剛好陳玉珍委員您也在這\n裡，去年 1 月 17 號我想你應該還記得發生什麼事情，包含王小棣老師、陳世杰金鐘編劇、導演\n，也包含劇作家簡莉穎、李志薔教授，全部排排站在議場門口，在抗議你當初提案要通刪公共\n電視 23 億的預算。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:35:38.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:09.950000+08:00","text":"同時，短短不到兩天的時間，發起連署的幕後藝文人士，包含金馬導演楊力\n州、雲門舞集林懷民、金馬導演陳玉勳、前北藝大校長邱坤良、政大廣電學系教授陳儒修，他\n們率先在網路上發起連署，抗議這件事情，您應該知道，因為您後來就變成統刪兩千……等一\n下，我還沒有說完，請尊重我發言。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:10.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:11.650000+08:00","text":"所以最後立法院通過的我們就是尊重嘛！","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:12.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:13.025000+08:00","text":"不是應該這樣子嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:13.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:14.950000+08:00","text":"尊重一下，我現在在發言耶！","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:15.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:15.983333+08:00","text":"我現在在發言……\n協 26","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:15.983333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:19.650000+08:00","text":"倒帶嘛……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:19.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:20.400000+08:00","text":"所以，拜託！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:21.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:35.842308+08:00","text":"我們現在在講的是，不要無差別式的一刀砍，包含三十幾個刪減的提案\n全部複製貼上，這個就是我們一直在強調的，什麼叫做幫人民節省公帑？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:36.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:44.372222+08:00","text":"這種荒謬的提案全部\n複製貼上，再變成通刪，這樣子的金額你們自己真的允許嗎？以上。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:44.594444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:46.816667+08:00","text":"你的意思是幫人民節省公帑很荒謬喔！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:47.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:49.050000+08:00","text":"不好意思，因為這是我的案子，是不是可以請院長容許我來講？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:49.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:36:55.864286+08:00","text":"我知道，各位委員，我建議我們還是針對現在進入的預算案本身，好嗎？好。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:36:56.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:37:05.950000+08:00","text":"我知道大家都很急切地表達一些其他方面的意見，但是為了有效地進行我們今天預算的政黨\n協商，還是拜託大家聚焦一下。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:37:05.950000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:37:09.220000+08:00","text":"請翁曉玲委員。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:37:09.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:37:42.310000+08:00","text":"因為這兩案都是我的案子，所以我就預算案來講，行政院去年水電費預算編列 2,425\n萬，但實際上決算只有 2,287 萬，今年多編了 500 萬，也就是 2,838 萬的水電費預算，跟去年的\n法定預算相比，成長幅度高達 17.05%。","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:37:42.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:37:59.977500+08:00","text":"本席認為水電費成長幅度太高，行政院本來就應該要節\n省能源，為什麼在今年要多編五百多萬的水電費用？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:38:00.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:38:08.090000+08:00","text":"我認為不合理，113 年、114 年水電費都是\n編 2,280 萬，你今年為什麼要編到兩千八百多萬？","quality":0.645},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:38:09.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:38:11.330000+08:00","text":"我刪 500 萬有什麼不合理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:38:11.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:38:14.330000+08:00","text":"我還可以讓你今\n年用到 2,300萬耶！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:38:16.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:38:19.155714+08:00","text":"所以我刪減這個費用是很合理的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:38:20.062308+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:38:36.390000+08:00","text":"另外，還有一個案子是剛剛講到的「其他業務租金」，同樣的，「其他業務租金」的問題是\n每年都超支，我不知道為什麼行政院的財政紀律如此之糟糕？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:38:36.975714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:38:49.356667+08:00","text":"明明「其他業務租金」預算只通\n過 130 萬，你們卻可以用到 170 萬，而多了的這 40 萬到底錢從哪裡來？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:38:50.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:39:07.217273+08:00","text":"不就代表你們其他的預\n算項目浮編、高編，用不完的錢就流到「其他業務租金」，這已經違反零基預算原則，你們要\n覈實編列、覈實去用！","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:39:07.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:39:21.530000+08:00","text":"所以我在這裡提案刪減 660 萬我認為也很合理，因為你們今年編的預算\n又比去年成長 50%。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:39:21.530000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:39:22.530000+08:00","text":"現在進入第 25案……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:39:22.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:39:23.848182+08:00","text":"報告委員，我剛剛都解釋過了……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:39:24.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:39:26.842500+08:00","text":"您剛剛講的是第 10案跟第 12案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:39:27.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:39:32.030000+08:00","text":"我們現在進入第 25案、第 26案、第 27案、第 28案、第 29案。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:39:33.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:39:42.630000+08:00","text":"我先跟各位報告一下，鄭天\n財委員所提的第 26案、第 27案改主決議、第 28案改主決議、第 29案改主決議。","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:39:43.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:39:58.918889+08:00","text":"現在第 25 案請張秘書長來表達一下意見，關於「一般行政─人事費─政務人員待遇」凍結\n148萬 8,000元，翁曉玲委員所提，凍結行政院長 9月至 12月薪資案，請張秘書長表達意見。","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:40:00.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:40:01.830000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:40:03.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:40:10.240000+08:00","text":"第一個，我想要表達人事的費用都是法定支出，不得刪凍，這是第一個\n。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:40:10.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:40:18.273333+08:00","text":"第二個，如果翁曉玲委員想要針對卓院長的話，我想這是一個政治的動作，並不是理性的處\n理預算。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:40:18.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:40:28.263529+08:00","text":"你可以針對卓院長，但是你在第 13 案提出刪減約用人員酬金，委員您知道約用人酬金\n協 27\n是他的薪水嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:40:28.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:40:40.273333+08:00","text":"你去年也這樣子刪，逼迫著行政院要把人家先解僱再增聘，然後用人事費去付\n約用人員的薪水，人家一個月的薪水三萬多到四萬，這樣你也要刪？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-29T16:40:40.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:40:46.286154+08:00","text":"你今天刪院長、凍院長，\n你明天就刪基層，這個我沒有辦法接受，以上說明。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T16:40:46.286154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:40:50.950000+08:00","text":"現在官員比立委還兇！","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:40:50.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:00.683333+08:00","text":"我想針對第 25案，我先講為什麼要凍結卓榮泰 9到 12月的薪資……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:00.683333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:01.683333+08:00","text":"他媽的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:00.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:05.750000+08:00","text":"我先講這個薪資也是法定預算，薪資也是法定預算……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:05.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:06.750000+08:00","text":"罵髒話，有人罵髒話！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:06.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:07.750000+08:00","text":"依照預算法的規定……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:06.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:14.762500+08:00","text":"主席，我們在委員會協商的現場，國民黨的黨團總召傅崐萁委員罵髒話！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:14.762500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:15.762500+08:00","text":"可以不要插話嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:15.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:19.677273+08:00","text":"翁委員正在發言，請你們尊重翁委員的發言好嗎？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:19.677273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:20.677273+08:00","text":"你們每次都插話。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:20.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:24.350000+08:00","text":"翁委員現在在發言，請尊重翁委員的發言，不要動不動就……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:24.350000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:25.350000+08:00","text":"院長，你有聽到嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:24.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:25.883333+08:00","text":"你們放任這樣的一個人當你們的黨團總召……","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:27.313636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:28.404545+08:00","text":"這是在協商，不是在這邊吵架……","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:28.404545+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:29.404545+08:00","text":"他罵髒話，你去回看一下錄影……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:28.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:33.677273+08:00","text":"請你們不要……請尊重一下發言的委員好嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:33.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:35.825000+08:00","text":"不要每次在協商現場都做這樣的事情。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:35.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:38.750000+08:00","text":"你們自己清楚，你自己講什麼，你們隔壁人都沒聽到嗎？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:39.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:40.783333+08:00","text":"周萬來秘書長你都沒聽到嗎\n？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:40.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:41.700000+08:00","text":"用這種干擾手段。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:41.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:42.700000+08:00","text":"罵什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:42.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:43.700000+08:00","text":"再講一次啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:43.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:44.700000+08:00","text":"不要在這邊人身攻擊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:41.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:45.642308+08:00","text":"別人在講話，不要插嘴！","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:45.642308+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:47.950000+08:00","text":"傅崐萁委員再講一次啊！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:47.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:49.727778+08:00","text":"你剛剛罵什麼，為什麼不敢自己講？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:49.727778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:50.727778+08:00","text":"你們真的很厲害喔，有你們這麼能幹的口才還需要秘書長嗎？","quality":0.16},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:50.616667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:51.816667+08:00","text":"罵秘書長還是罵卓院長？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:54.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:55.783333+08:00","text":"官員直接點名立法委員……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:56.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:57.825000+08:00","text":"現在可以這樣子喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:57.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:41:59.768182+08:00","text":"還可以直接點名立法委員？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:41:59.768182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:01.128636+08:00","text":"你罵髒話可以喔？","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:01.128636+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:02.489091+08:00","text":"你在這裡罵髒話可以喔？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:02.489091+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:03.849545+08:00","text":"「臭俗辣」是在講什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:03.849545+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:05.210000+08:00","text":"你罵髒話可以喔？協 28","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:05.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:09.924286+08:00","text":"你剛才罵什麼再罵一次啊，麥克風按下去嘛，有本事你按啊！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:10.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:15.710000+08:00","text":"陳培瑜委員跟李柏毅委員，還有郭委員，今天是黨團協商……","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:15.710000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:16.710000+08:00","text":"他罵髒話耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:16.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:18.876667+08:00","text":"韓院長，罵髒話是那一位國民黨的傅總召喔！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:18.876667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:19.876667+08:00","text":"傅總召不要這樣啦，不可以這樣啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:19.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:22.765556+08:00","text":"傅總召是不是應該對秘書長道歉一下，你剛才髒話是對秘書長嗎？","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:22.765556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:23.876667+08:00","text":"你罵一罵……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:23.876667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:25.085000+08:00","text":"院長在發言你們尊重一下好嗎？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:25.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:26.085000+08:00","text":"院長在講話請尊重！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:26.085000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:27.085000+08:00","text":"你罵人家「臭俗辣」這樣就不對了！","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:26.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:27.960000+08:00","text":"他有罵你們三字經嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:28.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:29.710000+08:00","text":"罵誰你自己清楚喔！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:30.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:32.390000+08:00","text":"罵誰你自己清楚嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:32.390000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:33.390000+08:00","text":"「臭俗辣」……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:33.390000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:34.390000+08:00","text":"不要啦，不要罵這個啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:32.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:38.417778+08:00","text":"你剛才罵誰嘛，傅崐萁你剛才罵誰，你不敢回答嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:38.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:39.765000+08:00","text":"傅崐萁你回答嘛，你幹麻針對李\n柏毅？","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:41.497143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:42.068571+08:00","text":"是誰先罵髒話的？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:42.068571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:43.068571+08:00","text":"是要罵秘書長囉？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:42.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:42.640000+08:00","text":"你剛才……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:43.549091+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:44.276364+08:00","text":"是罵張秘書長囉？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"郭委員昱晴","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:44.276364+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:45.306667+08:00","text":"是在問候誰的媽媽？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:45.306667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:48.354286+08:00","text":"好啦，不要啦，不要講這個啦！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:48.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:49.515000+08:00","text":"院長要主持公道啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:49.821818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:51.276364+08:00","text":"大家要不要去看 VOD重播？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:52.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:54.640000+08:00","text":"傅總召如果是罵張秘書長，請他好好道歉，那我們就繼續協商。","quality":0.44},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:54.640000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:55.640000+08:00","text":"請大家調出來，剛剛傅崐萁按了麥克風罵誰髒話？","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:55.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:58.306667+08:00","text":"你講錯了不該講，你就應該道歉。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:58.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:42:59.354286+08:00","text":"可以討論提案啦，各位！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:42:59.354286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:43:00.640000+08:00","text":"討論提案啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-29T16:43:00.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:43:03.497143+08:00","text":"你說不是罵委員，你是罵張秘書長？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-29T16:43:03.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:43:04.240000+08:00","text":"討論提案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-07-29T16:43:04.240000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:43:07.640000+08:00","text":"……罵立委……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:43:07.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:43:08.528889+08:00","text":"他剛才有罵立委了嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-07-29T16:43:08.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T16:43:10.473333+08:00","text":"他剛剛陳述他的論述給他聽……","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:43:10.973333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:43:12.687619+08:00","text":"擇期再開。散會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T16:43:12.987619+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:43:14.416190+08:00","text":"散會（16時 43分）\n協 29","quality":0},{"speaker":"附錄","start":"2026-07-29T16:43:14.716190+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T16:45:24.716190+08:00","text":"協 30\n協 31\n協 32\n協 33\n協 34\n協 35\n協 36\n協 37\n協 38\n協 39\n協 40\n協 41\n協 42\n協 43\n協 44\n協 45\n協 46\n協 47\n協 48\n協 49\n協 50\n協 51\n協 52\n協 53\n協 54\n協 55\n協 56\n協 57\n協 58\n協 59\n協 60\n協 61\n協 62\n協 63\n協 64\n協 65\n協 66\n協 67\n協 68\n協 69\n協 70\n協 71\n協 72\n協 73\n協 74\n協 75\n協 76\n協 77\n協 78\n協 79\n協 80\n協 81\n協 82\n協 83\n協 84\n協 85\n協 86\n協 87\n協 88\n協 89\n協 90\n協 91\n協 92\n協 93\n協 94\n協 95\n協 96\n協 97\n協 98\n協 99\n協 100\n協 101\n協 102\n協 103\n協 104\n協 105\n協 106\n協 107\n協 108\n協 109\n協 110\n協 111\n協 112\n協 113\n協 114\n協 115\n協 116\n協 117\n協 118\n協 119\n協 120\n協 121\n協 122\n協 123\n協 124\n協 125\n協 126\n協 127\n協 128\n協 129\n協 130\n協 131\n協 132\n協 133\n協 134\n協 135\n協 136\n協 137\n協 138\n協 139\n協 140\n協 141\n協 142\n協 143\n協 144\n協 145\n協 146\n協 147\n協 148\n協 149\n協 150\n協 151\n協 152\n協 153\n協 154\n協 155\n協 156\n協 157\n協 158\n協 159\n協 160\n協 161\n協 162\n協 163\n協 164\n協 165\n協 166\n協 167\n協 168\n協 169\n協 170\n協 171\n協 172\n協 173\n協 174\n協 175\n協 176\n協 177\n協 178\n協 179\n協 180\n協 181\n協 182\n協 183\n協 184\n協 185\n協 186\n協 187\n協 188\n協 189\n協 190\n協 191\n協 192\n協 193\n協 194\n協 195\n協 196\n協 197\n協 198\n協 199\n協 200\n協 201\n協 202\n協 203\n協 204\n協 205\n協 206\n協 207\n協 208\n協 209\n協 210\n協 211\n協 212\n協 213\n協 214\n協 215\n協 216\n協 217\n協 218\n協 219\n協 220\n協 221\n協 222\n協 223\n協 224\n協 225\n協 226\n協 227\n協 228\n協 229\n協 230\n協 231\n協 232\n協 233\n協 234\n協 235\n協 236\n協 237\n協 238\n協 239\n協 240\n協 241\n協 242\n協 243\n協 244\n協 245\n協 246\n協 247\n協 248\n協 249\n協 250\n協 251\n協 252\n協 253\n協 254\n協 255\n協 256\n協 257\n協 258\n協 259\n協 260\n協 261\n協 262\n協 263\n協 264\n協 265\n協 266\n協 267\n協 268\n協 269\n協 270\n協 271\n協 272\n協 273\n協 274\n協 275\n協 276\n協 277\n協 278\n協 279\n協 280\n協 281\n協 282\n協 283\n協 284\n協 285\n協 286\n協 287\n協 288\n協 289\n協 290\n協 291\n協 292\n協 293\n協 294\n協 295\n協 296\n協 297\n協 298\n協 299\n協 300\n協 301\n協 302\n協 303\n協 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447\n協 448\n協 449\n協 450\n協 451\n協 452\n協 453\n協 454\n協 455\n協 456\n協 457\n協 458\n協 459\n協 460\n協 461\n協 462\n協 463\n協 464\n協 465\n協 466\n協 467\n協 468\n協 469\n協 470\n協 471\n協 472\n協 473\n協 474\n協 475\n協 476\n協 477\n協 478\n協 479\n協 480\n協 481\n協 482\n協 483\n協 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