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其他都非常的悲哀"},{"start":1704.8000000000002,"end":1707,"text":"除了AI就是比哀"},{"start":1707,"end":1709.2,"text":"AI跟半導體一路向上"},{"start":1709.2,"end":1713.2,"text":"許多傳統產業卻仍舊在原地踏步"},{"start":1713.2,"end":1716.6000000000001,"text":"股市前一陣子雖然創了新高"},{"start":1716.6000000000001,"end":1720.6000000000001,"text":"並不代表整體薪資同步的創新高"},{"start":1720.6000000000001,"end":1727.4,"text":"GDP創新高也不代表每個家庭都感受到幸福"},{"start":1727.4,"end":1731,"text":"真正的經濟奇蹟不是只有少數的成功"},{"start":1731,"end":1734.8,"text":"而是多數國人的生活可以變得更好"},{"start":1734.8,"end":1739,"text":"如果台灣七成勞工感受不到"},{"start":1739,"end":1741.2,"text":"國家經濟景氣的成長"},{"start":1741.2,"end":1742.8,"text":"再漂亮的數字"},{"start":1742.8,"end":1745,"text":"我都認為是我們的政府"},{"start":1745,"end":1747.6,"text":"應該共同檢討的地方"},{"start":1747.6,"end":1750,"text":"政府不能只有公布成長率"},{"start":1750,"end":1753.8,"text":"更要交出漂亮的共享成長率"},{"start":1753.8,"end":1756.6,"text":"這才是國人真正的幸福"},{"start":1756.6,"end":1758.8,"text":"所以今天張愛公聽會"},{"start":1758.8,"end":1761.2,"text":"不是否定台灣的經濟成就"},{"start":1761.2,"end":1765.2,"text":"而是希望讓每一位努力工作的國人"},{"start":1765.2,"end":1769.6000000000001,"text":"都能夠共享到我國家成長的果實"},{"start":1769.6000000000001,"end":1772,"text":"經濟發展不能只有速度"},{"start":1772,"end":1774.4,"text":"更要兼顧公平"},{"start":1774.4,"end":1776.2,"text":"也不能只有亮眼的數字"},{"start":1776.2,"end":1779,"text":"更要有人民真實的感受"},{"start":1779,"end":1780.8,"text":"期待我們今天行政部門"},{"start":1780.8,"end":1783.6000000000001,"text":"除了我們今天學者專家"},{"start":1783.6000000000001,"end":1785.8,"text":"可以提出更多更好的意見"},{"start":1785.8,"end":1787.6000000000001,"text":"今天還有產業界的代表"},{"start":1787.8,"end":1788.8,"text":"我們行政部門"},{"start":1788.8,"end":1791.3999999999999,"text":"也能夠提出具體的改革方案"},{"start":1791.3999999999999,"end":1794.8,"text":"讓台灣成長成為真正全民"},{"start":1794.8,"end":1796.8,"text":"台灣的經濟成長率"},{"start":1796.8,"end":1800,"text":"改變成為全民共享的成長"},{"start":1800,"end":1804.3999999999999,"text":"這個是我們今天辦理公聽會主要的目的"},{"start":1804.3999999999999,"end":1807,"text":"容許我先介紹在場的委員"},{"start":1807,"end":1808.1999999999998,"text":"跟學者專家代表"},{"start":1808.1999999999998,"end":1810.1999999999998,"text":"跟政府機關代表"},{"start":1810.1999999999998,"end":1811.6,"text":"第一位在現場的是"},{"start":1811.6,"end":1814,"text":"我們長期關注台灣經濟發展的"},{"start":1814,"end":1815.6,"text":"賴世寶委員"},{"start":1817.6,"end":1819.6,"text":"以及今天在現場"},{"start":1823.6,"end":1825.6,"text":"以及在現場有我們"},{"start":1825.6,"end":1827.6,"text":"淡江大學經濟學系的"},{"start":1827.6,"end":1829.6,"text":"蔡明芳教授歡迎您"},{"start":1831.6,"end":1834.8,"text":"台北市再生醫療工會的理事長"},{"start":1834.8,"end":1836.8,"text":"葉明工業理事長歡迎您"},{"start":1838.8,"end":1841.6,"text":"中華民國全國商業總會的"},{"start":1841.6,"end":1843.6,"text":"常務監事王全宏"},{"start":1843.6,"end":1845.6,"text":"王常務監事歡迎您"},{"start":1846.6,"end":1850.6,"text":"中華經濟研究院的副研究員王國成"},{"start":1850.6,"end":1852.6,"text":"王副研究員歡迎您"},{"start":1853.6,"end":1856.6,"text":"以及中華經濟研究院的所長"},{"start":1856.6,"end":1861.6,"text":"劉夢俊劉所長歡迎您"},{"start":1863.6,"end":1866.6,"text":"容許我介紹今天列席的機關代表"},{"start":1866.6,"end":1871.6,"text":"由我們財政部的政次阮政次歡迎您"},{"start":1871.6,"end":1874.6,"text":"以及我們財政部推動處參思的副市長"},{"start":1874.6,"end":1876.6,"text":"同副市長歡迎您"},{"start":1877.6,"end":1880.6,"text":"我們國庫署的副署長林秀燕"},{"start":1880.6,"end":1882.6,"text":"林副署長歡迎您"},{"start":1882.6,"end":1885.6,"text":"我們附稅署的副署長李志中"},{"start":1885.6,"end":1887.6,"text":"李副署長歡迎您"},{"start":1888.6,"end":1890.6,"text":"我們金管會的副主委陳彥良"},{"start":1890.6,"end":1892.6,"text":"副主委歡迎您"},{"start":1892.6,"end":1895.6,"text":"我們銀行局的副局長王允中"},{"start":1895.6,"end":1897.6,"text":"王副局長歡迎您"},{"start":1897.6,"end":1900.6,"text":"我們政局局的副局長黃仲豪"},{"start":1900.6,"end":1902.6,"text":"黃副局長歡迎您"},{"start":1905.6,"end":1908.6,"text":"以及我們保險局的副局長陳清源"},{"start":1908.6,"end":1910.6,"text":"陳副局長歡迎您"},{"start":1910.6,"end":1913.6,"text":"我們今天的央行的副總裁"},{"start":1913.6,"end":1916.6,"text":"嚴鍾大嚴副總裁歡迎您"},{"start":1916.6,"end":1919.6,"text":"我們國家發展委員會產業發展處的"},{"start":1919.6,"end":1922.6,"text":"副處長陳重華陳副處長歡迎您"},{"start":1923.6,"end":1927.6,"text":"我們經濟部綜合規劃司的林司長歡迎您"},{"start":1928.6,"end":1931.6,"text":"我們產業發展組的產業政策組的"},{"start":1931.6,"end":1934.6,"text":"副組長盧副組長歡迎您"},{"start":1935.6,"end":1938.6,"text":"我們商業發展署政策規劃組的"},{"start":1938.6,"end":1941.6,"text":"孫科長孫大偉孫科長歡迎您"},{"start":1942.6,"end":1945.6,"text":"我們中小興創企業總署"},{"start":1945.6,"end":1949.6,"text":"綜合企劃組的協組長歡迎您"},{"start":1951.6,"end":1954.6,"text":"衛福部的檢認紀政呂紀政歡迎您"},{"start":1955.6,"end":1960.6,"text":"我們食藥署的檢認紀政劉檢任紀政歡迎您"},{"start":1961.6,"end":1964.6,"text":"勞動部勞動條件司就業平等司的"},{"start":1964.6,"end":1967.6,"text":"副司長王副司長歡迎您"},{"start":1968.6,"end":1971.6,"text":"以及我們淡江大學產業經濟學系的"},{"start":1971.6,"end":1974.6,"text":"副教授莊孟漢莊副教授"},{"start":1974.6,"end":1977.6,"text":"謝謝歡迎您謝謝莊教授"},{"start":1977.6,"end":1980.6,"text":"好我們今天"},{"start":1982.6,"end":1984.6,"text":"今天每位發言的時間"},{"start":1984.6,"end":1988.6,"text":"學者專家是8分鐘結束前1分鐘會按鈴提醒"},{"start":1988.6,"end":1991.6,"text":"原則上醫學者簽到的順序發言"},{"start":1991.6,"end":1994.6,"text":"若委員需要發言的話請到主席來登記"},{"start":1994.6,"end":1996.6,"text":"每位委員是5分鐘"},{"start":1996.6,"end":1998.6,"text":"全部發言完之後"},{"start":1998.6,"end":2002.6,"text":"才請我們行政機關就業管的權責整體做回應"},{"start":2002.6,"end":2006.6,"text":"現在就先邀請第一位我們賴世保委員"},{"start":2006.6,"end":2008.6,"text":"賴世保委員"},{"start":2016.6,"end":2019.6,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進"},{"start":2019.6,"end":2021.6,"text":"那麼我笨鳥先飛了"},{"start":2021.6,"end":2024.6,"text":"因為我們立法院跑了跑去了"},{"start":2024.6,"end":2026.6,"text":"所以我先講一下"},{"start":2026.6,"end":2028.6,"text":"今天這個題目大家非常關心"},{"start":2028.6,"end":2031.6,"text":"不過這個財政部的阮次長"},{"start":2031.6,"end":2033.6,"text":"金管委副主委陳副主委"},{"start":2033.6,"end":2034.6,"text":"要特別關心"},{"start":2034.6,"end":2036.6,"text":"因為現在所有的媒體"},{"start":2036.6,"end":2038.6,"text":"還有路人甲路人蟻"},{"start":2038.6,"end":2040.6,"text":"我的選民大家都在關心"},{"start":2040.6,"end":2044.6,"text":"股市台灣的股市兩天跌了3500點"},{"start":2044.6,"end":2046.6,"text":"到底國安基金要不要復盤"},{"start":2046.6,"end":2048.6,"text":"大家關心這個題目"},{"start":2048.6,"end":2051.6,"text":"當然這個題目跟今天有關係"},{"start":2051.6,"end":2052.6,"text":"等一下講什麼關係"},{"start":2052.6,"end":2054.6,"text":"但就我個人的觀點"},{"start":2054.6,"end":2056.6,"text":"也提供給各位參考"},{"start":2056.6,"end":2059.6,"text":"等一下這個阮次長拜託"},{"start":2059.6,"end":2063.6,"text":"我們就請主席請他針對國安基金要不要復盤"},{"start":2063.6,"end":2067.6,"text":"這個事情給我們一個明確的方向"},{"start":2067.6,"end":2071.6,"text":"我個人是覺得國安基金的設計"},{"start":2071.6,"end":2074.6,"text":"是當這個市場失靈"},{"start":2074.6,"end":2076.6,"text":"當初在1999年"},{"start":2076.6,"end":2081.6,"text":"因為李前總統因應了德國之音"},{"start":2081.6,"end":2085.6,"text":"他發表兩岸市特殊的兩國論之前"},{"start":2085.6,"end":2087.6,"text":"他算到可能會緊張"},{"start":2087.6,"end":2092.6,"text":"就是非經濟因素造成恐慌股市的暴跌"},{"start":2092.6,"end":2094.6,"text":"所以才成立國安基金"},{"start":2094.6,"end":2097.6,"text":"可是國安基金到目前為止"},{"start":2097.6,"end":2099.6,"text":"他所動用好幾次"},{"start":2099.6,"end":2102.6,"text":"每一次都沒有超過一千億"},{"start":2102.6,"end":2106.6,"text":"各位最多的幾百億而已"},{"start":2106.6,"end":2108.6,"text":"有一次勉強到一千億左右"},{"start":2108.6,"end":2110.6,"text":"或者超過怎麼樣"},{"start":2110.6,"end":2114.6,"text":"所以國安基金其實是LIP Service"},{"start":2114.6,"end":2118.6,"text":"LIP 嘴巴在服務"},{"start":2118.6,"end":2120.6,"text":"就是它是個信心的展示"},{"start":2120.6,"end":2123.6,"text":"政府關心的東西"},{"start":2123.6,"end":2125.6,"text":"但是它前提是什麼"},{"start":2125.6,"end":2127.6,"text":"前提是市場失靈"},{"start":2127.6,"end":2129.6,"text":"什麼叫市場失靈"},{"start":2129.6,"end":2131.6,"text":"我要賣賣不掉"},{"start":2131.6,"end":2132.6,"text":"沒有量"},{"start":2132.6,"end":2135.6,"text":"像古短龍前財政部長"},{"start":2135.6,"end":2138.6,"text":"宣布課徵證所說的時候"},{"start":2138.6,"end":2140.6,"text":"19天5量下跌"},{"start":2140.6,"end":2142.6,"text":"那時候市場失靈的"},{"start":2142.6,"end":2146.6,"text":"那時候國安基金進場絕對是正確的"},{"start":2147.6,"end":2148.6,"text":"那無疑回過頭"},{"start":2148.6,"end":2151.6,"text":"像我們現在國安基金老實講"},{"start":2151.6,"end":2152.6,"text":"挺尷尬的啦"},{"start":2152.6,"end":2154.6,"text":"因為量有啊"},{"start":2154.6,"end":2156.6,"text":"再低的話也八千多億"},{"start":2156.6,"end":2157.6,"text":"昨天還超過一兆"},{"start":2157.6,"end":2159.6,"text":"你說成就量有"},{"start":2159.6,"end":2160.6,"text":"但股市跌"},{"start":2160.6,"end":2162.6,"text":"老實講對我個人來講"},{"start":2162.6,"end":2164.6,"text":"我長期在財政委員會"},{"start":2164.6,"end":2166.6,"text":"股市我關心的是量"},{"start":2166.6,"end":2168.6,"text":"量就代表市場"},{"start":2168.6,"end":2170.6,"text":"就代表這裡有沒有市場"},{"start":2170.6,"end":2173.6,"text":"量夠大就代表這裡有市場"},{"start":2173.6,"end":2176.6,"text":"市場其實要管的是管量"},{"start":2176.6,"end":2178.6,"text":"價的話尊重市場嘛"},{"start":2178.6,"end":2179.6,"text":"那價當然影響很多"},{"start":2179.6,"end":2182.6,"text":"那政府了不起就是欣欣寒話"},{"start":2182.6,"end":2184.6,"text":"不過這裡剛好今天也來了"},{"start":2184.6,"end":2186.6,"text":"好不容易我們的主席英明"},{"start":2186.6,"end":2189.6,"text":"可以請到央行的副總裁嚴中大"},{"start":2189.6,"end":2191.6,"text":"請你回去告訴總裁"},{"start":2191.6,"end":2194.6,"text":"總裁這個金口不能亂開"},{"start":2194.6,"end":2196.6,"text":"我們要開就請我們的立法院"},{"start":2196.6,"end":2198.6,"text":"我們請主席多請他來"},{"start":2198.6,"end":2201.6,"text":"他不太願意來這個金管廊參議會"},{"start":2201.6,"end":2202.6,"text":"他一開口啊"},{"start":2202.6,"end":2203.6,"text":"各位記得啊"},{"start":2203.6,"end":2206.6,"text":"央行總裁一開口提醒你啊"},{"start":2206.6,"end":2208.6,"text":"沒多久股市一定爆底"},{"start":2208.6,"end":2210.6,"text":"其實我看好幾次"},{"start":2210.6,"end":2212.6,"text":"你看他這一次就講啊"},{"start":2212.6,"end":2214.6,"text":"他這次講前幾天講的啊"},{"start":2214.6,"end":2216.6,"text":"他很注意喔"},{"start":2216.6,"end":2217.6,"text":"不是AI的問題喔"},{"start":2217.6,"end":2219.6,"text":"是西東港港的問題喔"},{"start":2219.6,"end":2221.6,"text":"四代同堂六代同堂"},{"start":2221.6,"end":2223.6,"text":"他講了天龍碑"},{"start":2223.6,"end":2225.6,"text":"可是因為他叫央行總裁"},{"start":2225.6,"end":2227.6,"text":"他叫楊金龍"},{"start":2227.6,"end":2230.6,"text":"他出來就很強烈的正式的"},{"start":2230.6,"end":2232.6,"text":"政策的暗示"},{"start":2232.6,"end":2235.6,"text":"那就是資金要緊縮了"},{"start":2235.6,"end":2236.6,"text":"他觀察最清楚喔"},{"start":2236.6,"end":2237.6,"text":"你那錢怎麼留"},{"start":2237.6,"end":2240.6,"text":"股票市場就是錢你最閃啦"},{"start":2240.6,"end":2242.6,"text":"他知道錢怎麼留"},{"start":2242.6,"end":2243.6,"text":"所以這一次給我們污名"},{"start":2243.6,"end":2245.6,"text":"只是大家學得不夠聰明"},{"start":2245.6,"end":2248.6,"text":"我在台灣這麼久認識他"},{"start":2248.6,"end":2249.6,"text":"也是不夠聰明"},{"start":2249.6,"end":2250.6,"text":"聰明了"},{"start":2250.6,"end":2252.6,"text":"以後就知道只要總裁講話"},{"start":2252.6,"end":2254.6,"text":"差不多你就準備落跑"},{"start":2254.6,"end":2255.6,"text":"是沒什麼錯啦"},{"start":2255.6,"end":2257.6,"text":"看起來就是這樣子"},{"start":2257.6,"end":2259.6,"text":"等一下給我幾分鐘喔"},{"start":2259.6,"end":2260.6,"text":"所以這是第一個"},{"start":2260.6,"end":2263.6,"text":"有提到大家所關心的這個題目"},{"start":2263.6,"end":2264.6,"text":"第二個跟這個關係"},{"start":2264.6,"end":2265.6,"text":"也有影響"},{"start":2265.6,"end":2268.6,"text":"我們經濟現在政府號稱"},{"start":2268.6,"end":2270.6,"text":"經濟部最喜歡吹這個牛"},{"start":2270.6,"end":2272.6,"text":"財經部門最喜歡吹這個牛"},{"start":2272.6,"end":2274.6,"text":"我們的經濟成長率"},{"start":2274.6,"end":2277.6,"text":"GDP今年上降10%"},{"start":2277.6,"end":2279.6,"text":"現在即便再怎麼樣也9%"},{"start":2279.6,"end":2280.6,"text":"股市現在也9%"},{"start":2280.6,"end":2281.6,"text":"好高耶"},{"start":2281.6,"end":2285.6,"text":"高於對岸中國大陸"},{"start":2285.6,"end":2286.6,"text":"中國大陸了不起5"},{"start":2286.6,"end":2288.6,"text":"甚至於不到5"},{"start":2288.6,"end":2289.6,"text":"我也是有感冒"},{"start":2289.6,"end":2291.6,"text":"我舉個例子"},{"start":2291.6,"end":2293.6,"text":"主席總署最近公佈的"},{"start":2293.6,"end":2297.6,"text":"我們的平均薪資是4.8萬"},{"start":2297.6,"end":2301.6,"text":"但是2%以上的人將近7成"},{"start":2301.6,"end":2304.6,"text":"領不到平均薪資4.8萬"},{"start":2304.6,"end":2306.6,"text":"這就是可行經濟"},{"start":2306.6,"end":2308.6,"text":"而且蓋一個數字"},{"start":2308.6,"end":2310.6,"text":"當GDP成長的時候"},{"start":2310.6,"end":2313.6,"text":"給勞工的那一部分"},{"start":2313.6,"end":2315.6,"text":"只有台灣第一50%"},{"start":2315.6,"end":2318.6,"text":"其他日本、歐盟、美國"},{"start":2318.6,"end":2320.6,"text":"都是高於50%"},{"start":2320.6,"end":2322.6,"text":"請再給我3分鐘好不好"},{"start":2322.6,"end":2324.6,"text":"都高於50%"},{"start":2324.6,"end":2326.6,"text":"只有台灣"},{"start":2326.6,"end":2329.6,"text":"當我們的經濟成長的時候"},{"start":2329.6,"end":2331.6,"text":"最大的受益者是誰"},{"start":2331.6,"end":2332.6,"text":"就是資本家"},{"start":2332.6,"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聽"},{"start":2552.6,"end":2555.6,"text":"這個央行總裁講的話"},{"start":2555.6,"end":2558.6,"text":"多聽聽金管委主委講的話"},{"start":2558.6,"end":2560.6,"text":"多聽聽財政部這幾個三巨頭"},{"start":2560.6,"end":2563.6,"text":"他們講的話其實都有意義的"},{"start":2563.6,"end":2564.6,"text":"只要他出來講說"},{"start":2564.6,"end":2566.6,"text":"喔要注意貸款"},{"start":2566.6,"end":2569.6,"text":"注意這個融資啊什麼之類的"},{"start":2569.6,"end":2570.6,"text":"就代表某種程度"},{"start":2570.6,"end":2572.6,"text":"或是看了什麼東西"},{"start":2572.6,"end":2573.6,"text":"一切都看到了"},{"start":2573.6,"end":2575.6,"text":"只是提早跟你講"},{"start":2575.6,"end":2577.6,"text":"你要跟得上這個腳步了"},{"start":2577.6,"end":2578.6,"text":"要不然吃虧都是自己"},{"start":2578.6,"end":2580.6,"text":"我簡單的這個報告"},{"start":2580.6,"end":2581.6,"text":"跟各位講報告"},{"start":2581.6,"end":2583.6,"text":"今天題目排的問號"},{"start":2583.6,"end":2585.6,"text":"就是有感阿發啦"},{"start":2585.6,"end":2587.6,"text":"找不到出口處高"},{"start":2587.6,"end":2588.6,"text":"今天有這樣的出口"},{"start":2588.6,"end":2590.6,"text":"那就是我覺得"},{"start":2590.6,"end":2593.6,"text":"這個刷短貧富差距"},{"start":2593.6,"end":2595.6,"text":"財政部責無旁貸"},{"start":2595.6,"end":2596.6,"text":"責無旁貸"},{"start":2596.6,"end":2598.6,"text":"央行也有責任"},{"start":2598.6,"end":2603.6,"text":"老師講金管會對於發展中小企業"},{"start":2603.6,"end":2605.6,"text":"比較沒有量的量贏的"},{"start":2605.6,"end":2606.6,"text":"不錯體質的"},{"start":2606.6,"end":2609.6,"text":"要怎麼樣多介紹介紹啦"},{"start":2609.6,"end":2613.6,"text":"這個都是對我們投資者都有幫助"},{"start":2613.6,"end":2616.6,"text":"這是簡單的跟各位做報告"},{"start":2616.6,"end":2617.6,"text":"也請各位指教"},{"start":2617.6,"end":2619.6,"text":"在那各位時間都不好意思"},{"start":2619.6,"end":2621.6,"text":"請各位指教謝謝"},{"start":2623.6,"end":2624.6,"text":"謝謝賴世保委員"},{"start":2624.6,"end":2626.6,"text":"那接下來請第二位"},{"start":2626.6,"end":2629.6,"text":"我們蔡明芳蔡教授歡迎您"},{"start":2646.6,"end":2650.6,"text":"好那個主席還有各位政府官員"},{"start":2650.6,"end":2652.6,"text":"還有與會的學者專家"},{"start":2652.6,"end":2653.6,"text":"大家好"},{"start":2653.6,"end":2658.6,"text":"剛以為來那個股民的發洩的這個說明會"},{"start":2658.6,"end":2662.6,"text":"那個我想今天主題還是回到這個K型經濟"},{"start":2662.6,"end":2665.6,"text":"那K型經濟這個問題"},{"start":2665.6,"end":2671.6,"text":"我覺得這問題大家這樣反應其實是蠻有問題的"},{"start":2671.6,"end":2674.6,"text":"就是顯示其實大家對於整個經濟成長"},{"start":2674.6,"end":2676.6,"text":"其實不是那麼了解"},{"start":2676.6,"end":2678.6,"text":"所以我想今天開這個公聽會"},{"start":2678.6,"end":2680.6,"text":"其實真的是蠻適合的"},{"start":2680.6,"end":2683.6,"text":"我想你自己在考試的過程裡面"},{"start":2683.6,"end":2685.6,"text":"你自己的家庭裡面"},{"start":2685.6,"end":2688.6,"text":"一定都會有人發展好發展不好"},{"start":2688.6,"end":2690.6,"text":"那有時候就必須要在家庭裡面"},{"start":2690.6,"end":2692.6,"text":"或透過你在考試裡面"},{"start":2692.6,"end":2695.6,"text":"你科目好的去就不好的科目嘛"},{"start":2695.6,"end":2698.6,"text":"你所得高一點的去幫助所得低一點的人嘛"},{"start":2698.6,"end":2701.6,"text":"所以一個國家裡面它本來就會有K型經濟"},{"start":2701.6,"end":2702.6,"text":"為什麼會有K型經濟"},{"start":2702.6,"end":2705.6,"text":"因為每個廠商不同的產業不同的廠商"},{"start":2705.6,"end":2707.6,"text":"那他們的表現都有可能會不一樣"},{"start":2707.6,"end":2711.6,"text":"那自然就會產生現在大家關心的K型"},{"start":2711.6,"end":2713.6,"text":"那同樣一個產業裡面"},{"start":2713.6,"end":2715.6,"text":"廠商表現會不一樣"},{"start":2715.6,"end":2717.6,"text":"同樣一個國家裡面"},{"start":2717.6,"end":2719.6,"text":"那這個不同產業的表現會不一樣"},{"start":2719.6,"end":2722.6,"text":"所以怎麼可能不會產生K型經濟呢"},{"start":2722.6,"end":2724.6,"text":"那我們都很關心就是說"},{"start":2724.6,"end":2725.6,"text":"所謂的國際貿易"},{"start":2725.6,"end":2727.6,"text":"國際貿易不就是要用比較利益嗎"},{"start":2727.6,"end":2728.6,"text":"大家在學比較利益"},{"start":2728.6,"end":2732.6,"text":"在談FDA的時候都一直不斷的在強調比較利益的重要性"},{"start":2732.6,"end":2735.6,"text":"談到K型經濟的時候完全把比較利益忘記了"},{"start":2735.6,"end":2736.6,"text":"這蠻奇怪的"},{"start":2736.6,"end":2739.6,"text":"那乾脆台灣就都不要去自由貿易"},{"start":2739.6,"end":2740.6,"text":"讓大家都變成什麼"},{"start":2740.6,"end":2741.6,"text":"絕對不是K型"},{"start":2741.6,"end":2743.6,"text":"等一下我會秀給大家看"},{"start":2743.6,"end":2746.6,"text":"所以K型其實是普遍存在的現象"},{"start":2746.6,"end":2748.6,"text":"那把這個議題一直不斷拿來講"},{"start":2748.6,"end":2749.6,"text":"其實是多講的"},{"start":2749.6,"end":2753.6,"text":"如果你真的有心對這個議題有感興趣的話"},{"start":2753.6,"end":2755.6,"text":"應該提出一些對方跟解方"},{"start":2755.6,"end":2758.6,"text":"那沒有K型經濟才需要擔憂"},{"start":2758.6,"end":2762.6,"text":"剛剛前面我也有提到這個中國的經濟成長率"},{"start":2762.6,"end":2764.6,"text":"如果沒有K型"},{"start":2764.6,"end":2765.6,"text":"上面那個翹起來"},{"start":2765.6,"end":2767.6,"text":"就是大家看到經濟成長那一塊"},{"start":2767.6,"end":2770.6,"text":"把下面的慢慢把它拉上來"},{"start":2770.6,"end":2772.6,"text":"台灣就變成什麼L型"},{"start":2772.6,"end":2774.6,"text":"L型就是全部躺平"},{"start":2774.6,"end":2776.6,"text":"大家覺得右邊的L型比較好"},{"start":2776.6,"end":2778.6,"text":"還是左邊的K型比較好"},{"start":2778.6,"end":2780.6,"text":"那只是大家K的不一樣"},{"start":2780.6,"end":2782.6,"text":"如果台灣跟韓國來比"},{"start":2782.6,"end":2785.6,"text":"可能韓國他K的更少"},{"start":2785.6,"end":2788.6,"text":"因為他集中在更少數的產業的經濟成長"},{"start":2788.6,"end":2791.6,"text":"但是台灣這個產業的經濟成長"},{"start":2791.6,"end":2793.6,"text":"他是慢慢的在往外面再擴散"},{"start":2793.6,"end":2796.6,"text":"我想這個大家也看到很多媒體的報導"},{"start":2796.6,"end":2798.6,"text":"應該也都會清楚"},{"start":2798.6,"end":2800.6,"text":"那這個發展差異的過大"},{"start":2800.6,"end":2802.6,"text":"從經濟學的角度來看"},{"start":2802.6,"end":2805.6,"text":"你要達到均衡其實真的是非常非常困難"},{"start":2805.6,"end":2807.6,"text":"那你絕對不可能說人家表現好"},{"start":2807.6,"end":2810.6,"text":"你表現不好就要大家都要均衡"},{"start":2810.6,"end":2812.6,"text":"這個不是所謂的均衡"},{"start":2812.6,"end":2814.6,"text":"這個叫共產主義"},{"start":2814.6,"end":2816.6,"text":"變成吃大鍋飯"},{"start":2816.6,"end":2819.6,"text":"那對一個自由民主的國家來講"},{"start":2819.6,"end":2821.6,"text":"對一個市場經濟的國家來講"},{"start":2821.6,"end":2823.6,"text":"我們會不會關心貧富差距"},{"start":2823.6,"end":2824.6,"text":"當然會"},{"start":2824.6,"end":2826.6,"text":"為什麼要關心貧富差距"},{"start":2826.6,"end":2828.6,"text":"因為一旦這個社會的貧富差距如果擴大"},{"start":2828.6,"end":2830.6,"text":"這個社會就會不穩定"},{"start":2830.6,"end":2831.6,"text":"這個社會一旦不穩定"},{"start":2831.6,"end":2833.6,"text":"這個社會的經濟環境會好嗎"},{"start":2833.6,"end":2835.6,"text":"當然就不會好"},{"start":2835.6,"end":2837.6,"text":"你在菲律賓也會看到很多有錢的人"},{"start":2837.6,"end":2841.6,"text":"但是他的社會的治安可能就比台灣輸的非常非常的多"},{"start":2841.6,"end":2843.6,"text":"你在美國也一樣"},{"start":2843.6,"end":2846.6,"text":"你去一些已經沒有稅收的這個City去住"},{"start":2846.6,"end":2849.6,"text":"那他的這個稅收的發展差異過大"},{"start":2849.6,"end":2852.6,"text":"經濟發展差異過大這個風險都會增加"},{"start":2852.6,"end":2854.6,"text":"所以政府要不要注意當然要"},{"start":2854.6,"end":2856.6,"text":"所以我在這裡呢"},{"start":2856.6,"end":2858.6,"text":"我是覺得政府其實還是有一些可以做"},{"start":2858.6,"end":2860.6,"text":"雖然目前已經做了非常多"},{"start":2860.6,"end":2863.6,"text":"但是我覺得不勞而獲的部分真的要把它拿掉"},{"start":2863.6,"end":2865.6,"text":"不勞而獲的是什麼"},{"start":2865.6,"end":2868.6,"text":"第一個我非常care這個議題叫當沖降稅"},{"start":2868.6,"end":2872.6,"text":"那過去有委員在立法院執行金管會主委的時候"},{"start":2872.6,"end":2873.6,"text":"講到當沖降稅"},{"start":2873.6,"end":2875.6,"text":"我聽說差一點暈倒"},{"start":2875.6,"end":2877.6,"text":"因為這個主委說回去"},{"start":2877.6,"end":2879.6,"text":"副主委在這裡比較不好意思"},{"start":2879.6,"end":2882.6,"text":"就主委回去就說要請這個財政部研議"},{"start":2882.6,"end":2884.6,"text":"他的意思是說要把全部都降稅"},{"start":2884.6,"end":2886.6,"text":"如果全部都降稅"},{"start":2886.6,"end":2891.6,"text":"那我們今天我們這些證交稅來幫助這些小老百姓的錢拿來"},{"start":2891.6,"end":2892.6,"text":"全部都沒有"},{"start":2892.6,"end":2896.6,"text":"所以大家不要動不動就去動財政部這個稅的腦筋"},{"start":2896.6,"end":2897.6,"text":"稅有其必要性"},{"start":2897.6,"end":2900.6,"text":"他要做的事情絕對不是來隨便降稅"},{"start":2900.6,"end":2903.6,"text":"那為什麼不應該鼓勵當沖降稅"},{"start":2903.6,"end":2904.6,"text":"當沖就是投機啊"},{"start":2904.6,"end":2906.6,"text":"那我們很喜歡填問卷"},{"start":2906.6,"end":2908.6,"text":"你去問每一個股民"},{"start":2908.6,"end":2910.6,"text":"假設你的股票持有很久"},{"start":2910.6,"end":2912.6,"text":"然後你沒有降稅喔"},{"start":2912.6,"end":2916.6,"text":"但是持有當天就可以來來回回好多次了"},{"start":2916.6,"end":2917.6,"text":"他反而可以降稅"},{"start":2917.6,"end":2918.6,"text":"大家覺得這個合理嗎"},{"start":2918.6,"end":2920.6,"text":"應該不合理吧"},{"start":2920.6,"end":2923.6,"text":"所以第一個我覺得政府應該這個政策"},{"start":2923.6,"end":2924.6,"text":"兩萬點有需要"},{"start":2924.6,"end":2925.6,"text":"一萬點有需要"},{"start":2925.6,"end":2928.6,"text":"到四萬點的時候應該不需要了吧"},{"start":2928.6,"end":2930.6,"text":"我覺得政策要有持續性"},{"start":2930.6,"end":2932.6,"text":"但是政策也要有目的性"},{"start":2932.6,"end":2934.6,"text":"目的達到以後應該要退場"},{"start":2934.6,"end":2935.6,"text":"第二個就是打擊炒房"},{"start":2935.6,"end":2939.6,"text":"那這件事情我想我過去在社會上也很常呼籲"},{"start":2939.6,"end":2940.6,"text":"那我覺得這個部分"},{"start":2940.6,"end":2942.6,"text":"選擇性的信用管制央行這個部分"},{"start":2942.6,"end":2945.6,"text":"應該必須要再繼續堅持下去"},{"start":2945.6,"end":2948.6,"text":"那堅持下去並不是說我都不讓你借錢"},{"start":2948.6,"end":2950.6,"text":"而是你沒有那麼必要的人"},{"start":2950.6,"end":2952.6,"text":"我不應該讓你借那麼多錢"},{"start":2952.6,"end":2955.6,"text":"我覺得這個是政府可以去努力的"},{"start":2955.6,"end":2958.6,"text":"所以我的結論就是不要去補貼投機的行為"},{"start":2958.6,"end":2962.6,"text":"你應該要去幫助這些努力工作的人"},{"start":2962.6,"end":2964.6,"text":"那而不是去對努力工作的人"},{"start":2964.6,"end":2966.6,"text":"反而課更高的稅"},{"start":2966.6,"end":2968.6,"text":"比如說有人說我的所得稅的稅率"},{"start":2968.6,"end":2969.6,"text":"要再進一步的拉高"},{"start":2969.6,"end":2971.6,"text":"他努力工作"},{"start":2971.6,"end":2974.6,"text":"我一天斜槓人生兼兩份薪水"},{"start":2974.6,"end":2975.6,"text":"我的所得比你高"},{"start":2975.6,"end":2977.6,"text":"然後你說政府要對這個所得高的人"},{"start":2977.6,"end":2978.6,"text":"課更高的稅"},{"start":2978.6,"end":2981.6,"text":"這個就是蠻奇怪的這種政策建議"},{"start":2981.6,"end":2983.6,"text":"所以我覺得政府在這個部分"},{"start":2983.6,"end":2985.6,"text":"第一個不饒而獲的部分"},{"start":2985.6,"end":2986.6,"text":"我覺得應該要把它拿掉"},{"start":2986.6,"end":2989.6,"text":"第二個就產業面的問題來看的話"},{"start":2990.6,"end":2992.6,"text":"我覺得我們在這裡有幾個問題"},{"start":2992.6,"end":2996.6,"text":"就是現在其實所謂K型經濟"},{"start":2996.6,"end":2998.6,"text":"那個過去剛剛我講的"},{"start":2998.6,"end":3000.6,"text":"落在K下面的那一群"},{"start":3000.6,"end":3004.6,"text":"都是過去寄望中國市場非常深的那一群"},{"start":3004.6,"end":3006.6,"text":"這一群他現在面對了"},{"start":3006.6,"end":3008.6,"text":"因為你沒有差異化"},{"start":3008.6,"end":3009.6,"text":"或你的差異化不夠大"},{"start":3009.6,"end":3011.6,"text":"當然就會面對低價競爭"},{"start":3011.6,"end":3013.6,"text":"面對低價競爭怎麼辦"},{"start":3013.6,"end":3015.6,"text":"那第一個就是擴展其他"},{"start":3015.6,"end":3017.6,"text":"除了中國以外的這個市場"},{"start":3017.6,"end":3019.6,"text":"但是你到其他中國以外的市場"},{"start":3019.6,"end":3021.6,"text":"一樣都面對中國的競爭"},{"start":3021.6,"end":3023.6,"text":"所以你就沒轍"},{"start":3023.6,"end":3025.6,"text":"那所以政府可以做的是什麼"},{"start":3025.6,"end":3027.6,"text":"當然避免低價傾銷"},{"start":3027.6,"end":3029.6,"text":"別人都在做了你應該要做"},{"start":3029.6,"end":3031.6,"text":"那這一塊現在政府正在努力"},{"start":3031.6,"end":3033.6,"text":"那我覺得另外一個其實就是"},{"start":3033.6,"end":3037.6,"text":"小包裹的降稅免稅這一塊應該要取消"},{"start":3037.6,"end":3039.6,"text":"雖然很多人說這是給台灣"},{"start":3039.6,"end":3043.6,"text":"可能年輕人可能喜歡用這些包裹的人的一個小確幸"},{"start":3043.6,"end":3046.6,"text":"但是這種小確幸我寧願不要"},{"start":3046.6,"end":3048.6,"text":"我寧願的是比較高的所得"},{"start":3048.6,"end":3050.6,"text":"比較高的產業環境"},{"start":3050.6,"end":3052.6,"text":"那個才是我們一個國民所得"},{"start":3052.6,"end":3054.6,"text":"已經達到四萬美金的國家"},{"start":3054.6,"end":3056.6,"text":"應該要追求的"},{"start":3056.6,"end":3058.6,"text":"而不是鼓勵大家再去消費廉價的商品"},{"start":3058.6,"end":3061.6,"text":"那接下來另外一個就是AI轉型"},{"start":3061.6,"end":3063.6,"text":"我想這一塊大家聽很多"},{"start":3063.6,"end":3066.6,"text":"百工百業的AI負能這個政府已經在做了"},{"start":3066.6,"end":3068.6,"text":"中小微企業接下來新的2.0計畫"},{"start":3068.6,"end":3070.6,"text":"也開始在進行"},{"start":3070.6,"end":3072.6,"text":"這個都是AI"},{"start":3072.6,"end":3074.6,"text":"但是你不能只有想AI"},{"start":3074.6,"end":3076.6,"text":"那不需要AI的怎麼辦"},{"start":3076.6,"end":3080.6,"text":"我覺得這個部分其實是現在在政策上比較少看到"},{"start":3080.6,"end":3082.6,"text":"那這個在經濟部的部分"},{"start":3082.6,"end":3084.6,"text":"當然你在推AI的政策之餘"},{"start":3084.6,"end":3086.6,"text":"你也要有"},{"start":3086.6,"end":3088.6,"text":"有一些產業他就不需要AI"},{"start":3088.6,"end":3090.6,"text":"但是他現在就活得沒那麼好"},{"start":3090.6,"end":3092.6,"text":"可是他還繼續願意活下去"},{"start":3092.6,"end":3094.6,"text":"請問你的政策是什麼"},{"start":3094.6,"end":3096.6,"text":"你要他拿出來說我有AI要幫助你嗎"},{"start":3096.6,"end":3098.6,"text":"我就沒有要AI啊"},{"start":3098.6,"end":3100.6,"text":"那你要怎麼辦"},{"start":3100.6,"end":3102.6,"text":"我覺得這個部分是比較沒有看到的"},{"start":3102.6,"end":3104.6,"text":"那你現在說的產業"},{"start":3104.6,"end":3106.6,"text":"我這裡寫就是大家都不想面對"},{"start":3106.6,"end":3108.6,"text":"但是你永遠不想面對"},{"start":3108.6,"end":3110.6,"text":"永遠就會有一群人出來跟你喊K型經濟"},{"start":3110.6,"end":3112.6,"text":"但是他不知道他已經不再K型"},{"start":3112.6,"end":3114.6,"text":"他已經變成L型了"},{"start":3114.6,"end":3116.6,"text":"這一群L型的人"},{"start":3116.6,"end":3118.6,"text":"在喊K型經濟他以為自己"},{"start":3118.6,"end":3120.6,"text":"還有獲利但是他說靠政府補貼"},{"start":3120.6,"end":3122.6,"text":"要不要讓他退場"},{"start":3122.6,"end":3124.6,"text":"我覺得有序的退場為什麼我強調有序"},{"start":3124.6,"end":3126.6,"text":"不是一次要讓他崩掉"},{"start":3126.6,"end":3128.6,"text":"而是讓他慢慢的減少"},{"start":3128.6,"end":3130.6,"text":"因為你的這個所得"},{"start":3130.6,"end":3132.6,"text":"也都不夠高嘛"},{"start":3132.6,"end":3134.6,"text":"所以最後一個我想"},{"start":3134.6,"end":3136.6,"text":"經濟強化韌性的部分"},{"start":3136.6,"end":3138.6,"text":"其實公共服務"},{"start":3138.6,"end":3140.6,"text":"很重要絕對不是只有發現金"},{"start":3140.6,"end":3142.6,"text":"我想發現金很容易"},{"start":3142.6,"end":3144.6,"text":"響但是如果發現金"},{"start":3144.6,"end":3146.6,"text":"就不用請到我們在做"},{"start":3146.6,"end":3148.6,"text":"在場的每一位到現場"},{"start":3148.6,"end":3150.6,"text":"來因為發現金誰不會"},{"start":3150.6,"end":3152.6,"text":"三歲小孩就會啊"},{"start":3152.6,"end":3154.6,"text":"那你要做的是什麼第一個公共服務"},{"start":3154.6,"end":3156.6,"text":"台灣面對的問題我都把它列在上面"},{"start":3156.6,"end":3158.6,"text":"我想大家都知道"},{"start":3158.6,"end":3160.6,"text":"政府現在也有推出一些類似的政策"},{"start":3160.6,"end":3162.6,"text":"那公共投資"},{"start":3162.6,"end":3164.6,"text":"剛剛提到說到底這個經濟省"},{"start":3164.6,"end":3166.6,"text":"有沒有全民共享"},{"start":3166.6,"end":3168.6,"text":"如果沒有全民共享的時候"},{"start":3168.6,"end":3170.6,"text":"就不會有珍珠串的計畫"},{"start":3170.6,"end":3172.6,"text":"不是沒有全民共享"},{"start":3172.6,"end":3174.6,"text":"只是民眾享受到但是他卻不知道"},{"start":3174.6,"end":3176.6,"text":"所以你的南電北送"},{"start":3176.6,"end":3178.6,"text":"你的北水南送"},{"start":3178.6,"end":3180.6,"text":"這種珍珠串的計畫"},{"start":3180.6,"end":3182.6,"text":"你的交通建設便利性就好像很多人說"},{"start":3182.6,"end":3184.6,"text":"高雄人都喜歡騎摩托車"},{"start":3184.6,"end":3186.6,"text":"不是高雄人喜歡騎摩托車"},{"start":3186.6,"end":3188.6,"text":"高雄人沒有好的捷運可以搭"},{"start":3188.6,"end":3190.6,"text":"他才必須要騎摩托車"},{"start":3190.6,"end":3192.6,"text":"所以好的政府應該是說好好去把公共建設做好"},{"start":3192.6,"end":3194.6,"text":"而不是一直持續的發現金"},{"start":3194.6,"end":3196.6,"text":"這個對一個台灣"},{"start":3196.6,"end":3198.6,"text":"要持續往先進國家去邁進"},{"start":3198.6,"end":3200.6,"text":"我想是不會有幫助的"},{"start":3200.6,"end":3202.6,"text":"以上發言謝謝"},{"start":3202.6,"end":3204.6,"text":"好謝謝蔡明芳蔡教授"},{"start":3204.6,"end":3206.6,"text":"所做的具體的五個建議"},{"start":3206.6,"end":3208.6,"text":"接下來第二位我邀請"},{"start":3208.6,"end":3210.6,"text":"我們葉明工我們在生醫療"},{"start":3210.6,"end":3212.6,"text":"工會的葉理事長"},{"start":3212.6,"end":3214.6,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":3216.6,"end":3218.6,"text":"請"},{"start":3222.6,"end":3226.6,"text":"首先非常感謝李彥秀委員召開這個K型經濟"},{"start":3226.6,"end":3230.6,"text":"在台灣現在經濟創造了新的價值之外"},{"start":3230.6,"end":3232.6,"text":"有考慮到其他90%"},{"start":3232.6,"end":3238.6,"text":"沒有在這一次電子業紅利之下的情況"},{"start":3240.6,"end":3242.6,"text":"其實整個經濟的成長各位可以看得到"},{"start":3242.6,"end":3244.6,"text":"我們是一路堅挺向上"},{"start":3244.6,"end":3246.6,"text":"其實主要是在電子業"},{"start":3246.6,"end":3248.6,"text":"但是其他的90%"},{"start":3248.6,"end":3250.6,"text":"他是在薪資成長上"},{"start":3250.6,"end":3252.6,"text":"跟動能是相對的弱勢的"},{"start":3252.6,"end":3254.6,"text":"所以我們今天這個會議非常重要的就是說"},{"start":3254.6,"end":3256.6,"text":"如果藉由行政部門來引導經濟成果"},{"start":3256.6,"end":3258.6,"text":"能夠均勻的分配"},{"start":3258.6,"end":3260.6,"text":"並維繫非半導體產業的動能"},{"start":3260.6,"end":3262.6,"text":"經濟成長的果實"},{"start":3262.6,"end":3264.6,"text":"目前透過股市"},{"start":3264.6,"end":3266.6,"text":"但是最近股市跌得很凶"},{"start":3266.6,"end":3268.6,"text":"所以又有一片股市"},{"start":3268.6,"end":3270.6,"text":"所以我們要看"},{"start":3270.6,"end":3272.6,"text":"透過股市"},{"start":3272.6,"end":3274.6,"text":"但是最近股市跌得很凶"},{"start":3274.6,"end":3276.6,"text":"所以又有一批實際上是很慘的"},{"start":3278.6,"end":3280.6,"text":"我今天主要代表的是"},{"start":3280.6,"end":3284.6,"text":"台北再生醫療商業工會"},{"start":3284.6,"end":3288.6,"text":"代表的是再生醫療相關的產業"},{"start":3288.6,"end":3290.6,"text":"我提供的就是再生醫療"},{"start":3290.6,"end":3292.6,"text":"它是一個雙引擎的戰略"},{"start":3292.6,"end":3296.6,"text":"跟產業平衡可以的一個最佳的解方"},{"start":3296.6,"end":3298.6,"text":"半導體業它的附加價值高"},{"start":3298.6,"end":3301.6,"text":"傳統產業相對是比較中低"},{"start":3301.6,"end":3305.6,"text":"但是再生醫療產業它不只是附加價值高"},{"start":3305.6,"end":3308.6,"text":"而且跨域的整合度是極高的"},{"start":3308.6,"end":3311.6,"text":"它跨越了生技醫療精密製造資訊"},{"start":3311.6,"end":3313.6,"text":"這都是我們台灣的強項"},{"start":3313.6,"end":3316.6,"text":"在醫療上我們是已經連續十年"},{"start":3316.6,"end":3318.6,"text":"在世界第一"},{"start":3318.6,"end":3320.6,"text":"精密製造在我們中部地區"},{"start":3320.6,"end":3322.6,"text":"很多精密製造工業"},{"start":3322.6,"end":3325.6,"text":"我們資訊AI現在也是在世界上都名列前茅"},{"start":3325.6,"end":3328.6,"text":"而且整個匯集的勞工的範圍是廣的"},{"start":3328.6,"end":3330.6,"text":"可以創造中高階的就業機會"},{"start":3330.6,"end":3332.6,"text":"不是剛剛那個專家講的"},{"start":3332.6,"end":3333.6,"text":"這個L型的底下"},{"start":3333.6,"end":3335.6,"text":"它是另外一個K"},{"start":3335.6,"end":3336.6,"text":"所以很多人都說"},{"start":3336.6,"end":3340.6,"text":"在台灣的生技再生醫療"},{"start":3340.6,"end":3342.6,"text":"是未來第二座護果神山"},{"start":3342.6,"end":3343.6,"text":"所以我在這裡要強調"},{"start":3343.6,"end":3347.6,"text":"其實政府這二三十年來投資在這個"},{"start":3347.6,"end":3350.6,"text":"生物經濟其實投入了非常的多"},{"start":3350.6,"end":3353.6,"text":"在2024年的6月"},{"start":3353.6,"end":3356.6,"text":"立法院這邊也通過了再生醫療雙法"},{"start":3356.6,"end":3359.6,"text":"在2026年1月1號也正式實施"},{"start":3359.6,"end":3364.6,"text":"所以已經從這個學研進入到產業"},{"start":3364.6,"end":3366.6,"text":"所以我這邊的代表就是我們產業"},{"start":3366.6,"end":3368.6,"text":"再來需要什麼東西"},{"start":3373.6,"end":3375.6,"text":"目前我們評估有認為"},{"start":3375.6,"end":3377.6,"text":"遇到一些系統性的障礙"},{"start":3377.6,"end":3381.6,"text":"包括從研發法規臨床製造到市場"},{"start":3381.6,"end":3383.6,"text":"在法規的部分"},{"start":3383.6,"end":3385.6,"text":"雖然已經有再生雙法公佈"},{"start":3385.6,"end":3387.6,"text":"但是有很多細則細項執行的"},{"start":3387.6,"end":3390.6,"text":"執法等等的可能需要更透明"},{"start":3390.6,"end":3392.6,"text":"今天來了有衛武部的一些長官"},{"start":3392.6,"end":3394.6,"text":"希望能夠帶回去"},{"start":3394.6,"end":3397.6,"text":"能夠加速把這一部分能夠釐清"},{"start":3397.6,"end":3400.6,"text":"這樣子每一個在從研發進入產程"},{"start":3400.6,"end":3401.6,"text":"進入臨床的時候"},{"start":3401.6,"end":3402.6,"text":"他才能明確化"},{"start":3402.6,"end":3405.6,"text":"資金投資者才願意導入"},{"start":3405.6,"end":3408.6,"text":"第二個這個傳產"},{"start":3408.6,"end":3410.6,"text":"其實我們台灣再生醫療"},{"start":3410.6,"end":3412.6,"text":"慢慢已經形成一個ecosystem"},{"start":3412.6,"end":3418.6,"text":"從運輸醫療醫院運輸採樣到製造等等"},{"start":3418.6,"end":3420.6,"text":"它是一個大的一個生態圈"},{"start":3420.6,"end":3424.6,"text":"但是這中間如何把我們的傳統產業銜接上來"},{"start":3424.6,"end":3425.6,"text":"我想這一部分的話"},{"start":3425.6,"end":3427.6,"text":"就有賴於我們經濟部跟其他的"},{"start":3427.6,"end":3428.6,"text":"大家一起來努力"},{"start":3428.6,"end":3431.6,"text":"再來的話就是他本身再生醫療"},{"start":3431.6,"end":3434.6,"text":"在人的健康及預防有很大的價值"},{"start":3434.6,"end":3437.6,"text":"但是現在並沒有大入我們的醫保裡面"},{"start":3438.6,"end":3440.6,"text":"以前跟時部長他有講過說"},{"start":3440.6,"end":3443.6,"text":"或許可以透過醫保加商保"},{"start":3443.6,"end":3444.6,"text":"所以這一部分"},{"start":3444.6,"end":3446.6,"text":"財政部是不是可以導引"},{"start":3446.6,"end":3449.6,"text":"某一些商業的保險納入這個體制內"},{"start":3450.6,"end":3452.6,"text":"所以整個摩擦點我們記憶體剖析"},{"start":3452.6,"end":3455.6,"text":"就是法規跟市場的不確定性"},{"start":3455.6,"end":3457.6,"text":"會凍結早期的資金"},{"start":3457.6,"end":3458.6,"text":"缺乏健保的支持"},{"start":3458.6,"end":3461.6,"text":"會摧毀整個商業化的規模"},{"start":3462.6,"end":3465.6,"text":"在傳統製造跟生醫供應鏈的斷橋上"},{"start":3465.6,"end":3467.6,"text":"其實我們台灣的一些"},{"start":3467.6,"end":3470.6,"text":"在中部DCA傳統製造有非常好的優勢"},{"start":3470.6,"end":3472.6,"text":"但是如果讓他們知道"},{"start":3472.6,"end":3474.6,"text":"把它銜接到再生醫療的產業"},{"start":3474.6,"end":3476.6,"text":"我們目前再生醫療"},{"start":3476.6,"end":3479.6,"text":"急需要的一些培養的設備、耗材"},{"start":3479.6,"end":3482.6,"text":"GDP的標準製造、場域、CDMO的產能"},{"start":3482.6,"end":3485.6,"text":"都是靠日本、美國等等來了"},{"start":3485.6,"end":3489.6,"text":"如何把它本土化、產業化、量能化"},{"start":3489.6,"end":3492.6,"text":"甚至以後未來能夠外銷到國際去"},{"start":3492.6,"end":3496.6,"text":"在我們在台灣擁有非常好的絕對的優勢"},{"start":3496.6,"end":3499.6,"text":"我們的醫療人才、生技人才這麼多這麼好"},{"start":3499.6,"end":3500.6,"text":"第二個我們整個福演"},{"start":3500.6,"end":3506.6,"text":"包括是北從韓國、日本、台灣、南到東協"},{"start":3506.6,"end":3507.6,"text":"都是我們一個很大的市場"},{"start":3507.6,"end":3512.6,"text":"這是我們未來是可以藉由再生醫療來發揮的"},{"start":3512.6,"end":3513.6,"text":"所以我們在台灣擁有"},{"start":3513.6,"end":3515.6,"text":"極佳的硬體的製造底蘊之下"},{"start":3515.6,"end":3518.6,"text":"藉由政府政策主動的造橋"},{"start":3518.6,"end":3522.6,"text":"如何把傳統產業導入到再生醫療"},{"start":3522.6,"end":3524.6,"text":"產生附加紅利的價值"},{"start":3524.6,"end":3527.6,"text":"可以值得在座的各位行政長官們來思考"},{"start":3527.6,"end":3530.6,"text":"這樣子就可以讓我們的第二座的富國深山"},{"start":3530.6,"end":3533.6,"text":"更穩固變成一個群山"},{"start":3533.6,"end":3537.6,"text":"再來的話最重要就是跨部會的介入的框架"},{"start":3537.6,"end":3539.6,"text":"這邊提出了一個三大支柱"},{"start":3539.6,"end":3541.6,"text":"就是如何發展出一個包容性"},{"start":3541.6,"end":3543.6,"text":"經濟成長跟產業的韌性"},{"start":3543.6,"end":3545.6,"text":"剛剛講到了法規跟市場"},{"start":3545.6,"end":3547.6,"text":"法規跟市場就有賴於衛福部這邊"},{"start":3547.6,"end":3549.6,"text":"還有一些來讓它透明化"},{"start":3549.6,"end":3555.6,"text":"包括財政部等等的如何給予更明確的租稅"},{"start":3555.6,"end":3557.6,"text":"還有健保的落地"},{"start":3557.6,"end":3559.6,"text":"再來的話就是資金跟人才"},{"start":3559.6,"end":3562.6,"text":"如何藉由國安衛基金的挹注"},{"start":3562.6,"end":3566.6,"text":"活絡整個資本市場跨域的學程跟轉業"},{"start":3566.6,"end":3572.6,"text":"目前我有在清華做高階的藥品醫材的法規"},{"start":3572.6,"end":3574.6,"text":"但是除了這個之外"},{"start":3574.6,"end":3579.6,"text":"我們缺了很多的商業談判、國際領域的人才"},{"start":3579.6,"end":3582.6,"text":"所以這一部分有賴於教育部等等的勞動部"},{"start":3582.6,"end":3585.6,"text":"多開發一些這些課程培養這些人才"},{"start":3585.6,"end":3587.6,"text":"讓我們人才能夠更多元化"},{"start":3587.6,"end":3590.6,"text":"能夠更來滿足市場的需求"},{"start":3590.6,"end":3592.6,"text":"再來就是產業跨域的升級"},{"start":3592.6,"end":3595.6,"text":"就是經濟部這邊是不是盤點跟輔導"},{"start":3595.6,"end":3598.6,"text":"傳統製造產業協助取得GDP"},{"start":3598.6,"end":3601.6,"text":"打入CDMO的供應鏈"},{"start":3601.6,"end":3604.6,"text":"再來的話打通法規跟市場的認都兩脈"},{"start":3604.6,"end":3608.6,"text":"當然就是有賴於我們的財政部跟經濟部的長官"},{"start":3608.6,"end":3611.6,"text":"能夠儘速來解釋相關的法令"},{"start":3611.6,"end":3614.6,"text":"使得一些模糊不清的能夠更明確"},{"start":3614.6,"end":3617.6,"text":"使得資金能夠更容易導入來確認"},{"start":3617.6,"end":3621.6,"text":"再來就是要期待於衛福部審查跟法規的透明化"},{"start":3621.6,"end":3624.6,"text":"這是目前很多參與者最被詬病的"},{"start":3624.6,"end":3626.6,"text":"當然CDE的通冷也很辛苦"},{"start":3626.6,"end":3630.6,"text":"但是如何取得更多的信賴、公開揭露"},{"start":3630.6,"end":3632.6,"text":"這部分也是值得努力的"},{"start":3632.6,"end":3636.6,"text":"再來就是衛福部醫事師或其他相關的"},{"start":3636.6,"end":3638.6,"text":"市場准入跟給付的部分"},{"start":3638.6,"end":3644.6,"text":"是否可以嘗試建立沙盒驗證的方式"},{"start":3644.6,"end":3646.6,"text":"透過風險分攤來協議"},{"start":3647.6,"end":3650.6,"text":"所以整個資金的活水跟跨域的人才"},{"start":3650.6,"end":3653.6,"text":"才能夠讓再生醫療的生態系變好"},{"start":3653.6,"end":3656.6,"text":"藉由國安會、金管會跟央行的協助"},{"start":3656.6,"end":3658.6,"text":"我想勞動部、教育部的介入"},{"start":3658.6,"end":3662.6,"text":"能夠讓我們分散整個半導體內集中"},{"start":3662.6,"end":3665.6,"text":"創造中高階薪資的成長的機會"},{"start":3666.6,"end":3669.6,"text":"再來的話,驅動傳統產業跨域生態"},{"start":3669.6,"end":3673.6,"text":"就是請經濟部盤點相關的來媒合"},{"start":3673.6,"end":3677.6,"text":"這樣子我們就可以打入整個國際的供應鏈"},{"start":3678.6,"end":3680.6,"text":"系統性的協同的部分"},{"start":3680.6,"end":3683.6,"text":"從法規市場資金扔導到產業跨域的整合"},{"start":3683.6,"end":3686.6,"text":"各部會我們這邊提供了一些可參考的"},{"start":3686.6,"end":3688.6,"text":"請各位長官參考"},{"start":3688.6,"end":3690.6,"text":"以上,謝謝"},{"start":3691.6,"end":3696.6,"text":"非常感謝我們再生醫療公會的理事長葉理事長"},{"start":3696.6,"end":3701.6,"text":"再生生技醫療是蔡政府8年任內非常重要的政策"},{"start":3701.6,"end":3708.6,"text":"每一個重要的政策事實上都有政府過去長期的資源"},{"start":3708.6,"end":3711.6,"text":"今天再生醫療公會提出來的問題"},{"start":3711.6,"end":3713.6,"text":"我們也希望包括經濟部跟衛福部"},{"start":3713.6,"end":3716.6,"text":"在現階段在這一任賴政府上任之後"},{"start":3716.6,"end":3720.6,"text":"我們通過再生醫療法他們所面臨的問題跟挑戰"},{"start":3720.6,"end":3723.6,"text":"我們也希望可以加入研究"},{"start":3723.6,"end":3728.6,"text":"等一下回應的時候再請衛福部跟我們的經濟部"},{"start":3728.6,"end":3731.6,"text":"針對這一點再做一下簡單的回應"},{"start":3731.6,"end":3737.6,"text":"接下來我要請第三位我們中華民國全國商業總會的常務監事"},{"start":3737.6,"end":3741.6,"text":"王全宏,王常務監事,歡迎您,謝謝"},{"start":3743.6,"end":3755.6,"text":"非常感謝李燕秀委員來主持這個我們商業界非常憂心的一件事"},{"start":3755.6,"end":3759.6,"text":"剛剛有學者專家講到K型的情況"},{"start":3759.6,"end":3761.6,"text":"這個必然都存在"},{"start":3761.6,"end":3766.6,"text":"但是最近從股票市場來看"},{"start":3766.6,"end":3770.6,"text":"傳統產業跟科技產業的落差有多少"},{"start":3771.6,"end":3775.6,"text":"最重要的是要跟各位報告"},{"start":3775.6,"end":3781.6,"text":"我們要正視地方經濟對社會穩定的重要性"},{"start":3781.6,"end":3784.6,"text":"部分傳統產業雖然規模不大"},{"start":3784.6,"end":3789.6,"text":"卻支撐著地方的民生跟就業"},{"start":3789.6,"end":3794.6,"text":"一家中小企業雖然沒有採集見相關產業的產值"},{"start":3795.6,"end":3799.6,"text":"但可以養活無數的家庭"},{"start":3799.6,"end":3803.6,"text":"一個地方的工廠就是地方最重要就業的來源"},{"start":3803.6,"end":3807.6,"text":"如果這些產業逐漸被消失被淘汰"},{"start":3807.6,"end":3810.6,"text":"GDP影響可能不大"},{"start":3810.6,"end":3816.6,"text":"但直接衝擊了地方產業跟人口結構的問題"},{"start":3816.6,"end":3822.6,"text":"因此公共政策應該從地方的經濟角度來出發"},{"start":3822.6,"end":3827.6,"text":"這也是穩定台灣社會的最重要的力量"},{"start":3827.6,"end":3833.6,"text":"我們從2025年中小企業白皮書裡面"},{"start":3833.6,"end":3836.6,"text":"已經明確的數據"},{"start":3836.6,"end":3843.6,"text":"我國中小企業已經超過170萬家"},{"start":3843.6,"end":3848.6,"text":"占全國企業的98.8%"},{"start":3849.6,"end":3852.6,"text":"就業人口大概是900萬"},{"start":3852.6,"end":3856.6,"text":"將近全國就業人口的8成"},{"start":3856.6,"end":3860.6,"text":"全年銷售額更超過30億兆"},{"start":3860.6,"end":3865.6,"text":"台灣的就業、民生、內需市場"},{"start":3865.6,"end":3870.6,"text":"都主要是由中小企業所支撐的以上數字"},{"start":3870.6,"end":3875.6,"text":"所以我們為什麼憂心K型產業"},{"start":3875.6,"end":3880.6,"text":"長期以來對台灣會造成什麼樣的衝擊"},{"start":3884.6,"end":3887.6,"text":"未來在國際的競爭上"},{"start":3887.6,"end":3894.6,"text":"關鍵在於誰擁有最完整、最韌性的產業生態"},{"start":3894.6,"end":3896.6,"text":"我們提出三個建議"},{"start":3896.6,"end":3901.6,"text":"政府應該把重心放在建立、供應鏈"},{"start":3901.6,"end":3904.6,"text":"那我們很清楚的看到"},{"start":3904.6,"end":3907.6,"text":"台灣AI能不能夠這樣蓬勃發展"},{"start":3907.6,"end":3912.6,"text":"是台積電以下數千家的供應鏈的連結"},{"start":3912.6,"end":3917.6,"text":"才有今天晶片在全球佔重要的地位"},{"start":3917.6,"end":3922.6,"text":"但是其他的產業不能應該這樣子打趴"},{"start":3922.6,"end":3926.6,"text":"我今天有提供書面資料大概可以看得到"},{"start":3926.6,"end":3932.6,"text":"我先從我們產業界曾經發生的一些成功經驗"},{"start":3932.6,"end":3934.6,"text":"給各單位做參考"},{"start":3936.6,"end":3940.6,"text":"我們的玻璃就是你現在看的面板的玻璃"},{"start":3940.6,"end":3942.6,"text":"你桌上的杯子的玻璃"},{"start":3942.6,"end":3945.6,"text":"你們從來沒有注意到這個產業"},{"start":3945.6,"end":3949.6,"text":"但是1998年28年前"},{"start":3949.6,"end":3954.6,"text":"在中部彰化有一個小公司"},{"start":3954.6,"end":3960.6,"text":"大家上網看就台灣玻璃屋就可以看到"},{"start":3960.6,"end":3962.6,"text":"它是一個觀光工廠"},{"start":3962.6,"end":3967.6,"text":"後台是一個小型的玻璃廠"},{"start":3968.6,"end":3974.6,"text":"全盛時期它因為接到國際訂單沒辦法消化"},{"start":3974.6,"end":3976.6,"text":"因為它的產能不夠"},{"start":3976.6,"end":3978.6,"text":"它要增加設備也不行"},{"start":3978.6,"end":3984.6,"text":"所以當時它結合了中部就是鹿港那一代"},{"start":3984.6,"end":3989.6,"text":"鹿港、張濱、何美、沙塞那一代"},{"start":3989.6,"end":3997.6,"text":"把小型的加工廠、玻璃廠、工藝全部把它集合成上中下游"},{"start":3997.6,"end":4003.6,"text":"那他們的產品有藝術的玻璃、平板的玻璃、容器的玻璃"},{"start":4003.6,"end":4008.6,"text":"我們的器皿還有我們的鏡子"},{"start":4009.6,"end":4013.6,"text":"它這個群聚效益的成果"},{"start":4013.6,"end":4019.6,"text":"曾經締造了我們的產值200億"},{"start":4019.6,"end":4021.6,"text":"各位很難想像"},{"start":4021.6,"end":4023.6,"text":"就是你家裡看到的鏡子玻璃"},{"start":4023.6,"end":4025.6,"text":"台灣的產值200億"},{"start":4025.6,"end":4033.6,"text":"那這一家公司它印鈕的銀額從很低到10億"},{"start":4034.6,"end":4037.6,"text":"因為大家都是中小企業"},{"start":4037.6,"end":4039.6,"text":"大家都是老闆"},{"start":4039.6,"end":4041.6,"text":"不願意安得在大家的下面"},{"start":4041.6,"end":4046.6,"text":"所以他們用團體接單分工生產"},{"start":4046.6,"end":4050.6,"text":"也就是當時就有這種打群架的概念"},{"start":4050.6,"end":4054.6,"text":"整個玻璃團隊的外銷訂單的當年"},{"start":4054.6,"end":4057.6,"text":"可以達到7000萬美金"},{"start":4057.6,"end":4059.6,"text":"約台幣20億"},{"start":4060.6,"end":4065.6,"text":"當時的世界級的這個家具廠"},{"start":4065.6,"end":4068.6,"text":"我們家具裡面門一打開是不是有鏡子"},{"start":4068.6,"end":4071.6,"text":"或者是我們京道浴室是不是有鏡子"},{"start":4071.6,"end":4076.6,"text":"玻璃在全世界這個大廠裡面"},{"start":4076.6,"end":4079.6,"text":"10片的玻璃鏡子"},{"start":4079.6,"end":4082.6,"text":"有8片來自台灣"},{"start":4083.6,"end":4088.6,"text":"當年完全沒有政府任何的補助跟協助"},{"start":4088.6,"end":4092.6,"text":"只是企業界同行大家面臨的這痛點"},{"start":4092.6,"end":4095.6,"text":"有人願意跳出來這樣一弄"},{"start":4095.6,"end":4099.6,"text":"造成這個產業有這麼樣的成功的"},{"start":4099.6,"end":4107.6,"text":"那剛剛這個葉明工理事長也是署長"},{"start":4107.6,"end":4109.6,"text":"他講的生化產業"},{"start":4109.6,"end":4112.6,"text":"事實上在十幾年前商業總會就一直提"},{"start":4112.6,"end":4116.6,"text":"這是台灣的第二座富國神山"},{"start":4116.6,"end":4120.6,"text":"但是我們的接觸跟了解"},{"start":4120.6,"end":4124.6,"text":"因為他研發的東西有重疊"},{"start":4124.6,"end":4126.6,"text":"他的資金不夠"},{"start":4126.6,"end":4128.6,"text":"但是台灣人才夠"},{"start":4128.6,"end":4132.6,"text":"那政府未來如何來輔導生技產業能夠集中"},{"start":4132.6,"end":4136.6,"text":"以及互相重疊的驅除掉"},{"start":4138.6,"end":4142.6,"text":"那農委會曾經有一個很好的政策"},{"start":4142.6,"end":4148.6,"text":"我們的豬肉要外銷必須有一個非常合乎"},{"start":4148.6,"end":4151.6,"text":"國際FDA的這些"},{"start":4151.6,"end":4156.6,"text":"農委會在南北輔導了"},{"start":4156.6,"end":4161.6,"text":"中部或許有一家我們有去參觀過"},{"start":4161.6,"end":4166.6,"text":"所以台灣的豬肉外銷現在都要經過這一家"},{"start":4166.6,"end":4169.6,"text":"從進去一直到出來"},{"start":4169.6,"end":4177.6,"text":"所以我們建議未來政府政策要從計畫導向"},{"start":4177.6,"end":4180.6,"text":"變成問題導向"},{"start":4180.6,"end":4184.6,"text":"我們建議各部會在規劃政策時"},{"start":4184.6,"end":4187.6,"text":"回到企業最迫切的需要"},{"start":4187.6,"end":4191.6,"text":"讓政策真正能夠解決經濟的痛點"},{"start":4191.6,"end":4194.6,"text":"而不完成這個一個行政計畫"},{"start":4194.6,"end":4200.6,"text":"所以有關於剛剛幾位學者專家的見解"},{"start":4200.6,"end":4202.6,"text":"我們都很認同"},{"start":4202.6,"end":4209.6,"text":"但是對KLA世界傳統產業目前所面臨的很大的條件"},{"start":4209.6,"end":4211.6,"text":"更是我們所關心的"},{"start":4211.6,"end":4212.6,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4213.6,"end":4218.6,"text":"非常感謝我們商種的常務監事王全宏"},{"start":4218.6,"end":4224.6,"text":"在台灣有中小企業占了全台灣至少七成以上的勞工"},{"start":4224.6,"end":4229.6,"text":"現在整體的環境影響對於我們傳產業其實衝擊是非常大的"},{"start":4229.6,"end":4234.6,"text":"相對的也影響我們的勞工的相關未來的發展跟生計"},{"start":4234.6,"end":4239.6,"text":"這個部分也要請相關單位後續負責關注跟研議"},{"start":4239.6,"end":4245.6,"text":"接下來要請我們中華經濟研究院的副研究員王國成"},{"start":4245.6,"end":4247.6,"text":"王副研究員歡迎您謝謝"},{"start":4251.6,"end":4253.6,"text":"下一頁是結案嘛"},{"start":4253.6,"end":4254.6,"text":"站那邊"},{"start":4259.6,"end":4260.6,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":4264.6,"end":4267.6,"text":"感謝主席感謝立院邀請"},{"start":4267.6,"end":4270.6,"text":"那我覺得這題目當然很重要"},{"start":4270.6,"end":4274.6,"text":"可是第一個要回應的是民方老師有提到"},{"start":4274.6,"end":4278.6,"text":"就是我們除了要平均之外"},{"start":4278.6,"end":4283.6,"text":"更重要可能是要均富而不是變成L型的均平"},{"start":4283.6,"end":4287.6,"text":"所以我們第一個這沒有印到就是額外加的"},{"start":4287.6,"end":4289.6,"text":"就是匯成幾個觀點"},{"start":4289.6,"end":4293.6,"text":"第一個我覺得K型經濟的成因有二"},{"start":4293.6,"end":4298.6,"text":"事實上各部會和剛才幾位老師先進都有提到"},{"start":4298.6,"end":4301.6,"text":"在AI的浪潮底下"},{"start":4301.6,"end":4308.6,"text":"那麼台灣的資通訊業本來就在世界上是有優勢的"},{"start":4308.6,"end":4313.6,"text":"而且這些資通訊業事實上具有自然獨佔的特徵"},{"start":4313.6,"end":4317.6,"text":"比如說像台積電它南瓜世界第一"},{"start":4317.6,"end":4321.6,"text":"所以它就可以南瓜很大部分的訂單"},{"start":4321.6,"end":4327.6,"text":"所以導致這樣的產業是只有少數關鍵的廠商能夠獲利"},{"start":4327.6,"end":4330.6,"text":"那另外一個我要特別提出來的是"},{"start":4330.6,"end":4335.6,"text":"我們長期關注中國可以看到產能過剩的輸出"},{"start":4335.6,"end":4339.6,"text":"擠壓了各國傳產的生存空間"},{"start":4339.6,"end":4343.6,"text":"所以一個K往上的是因為AI"},{"start":4343.6,"end":4351.6,"text":"另外一個往下的其實我們必須關注的是中國的紅色供應鏈"},{"start":4351.6,"end":4358.6,"text":"那另外一個我覺得比較麻煩的延伸出來對於往下的那一撇"},{"start":4358.6,"end":4361.6,"text":"第一個除了剛才說到的紅色供應鏈之外"},{"start":4361.6,"end":4365.6,"text":"第二個大量的高科技產品輸美"},{"start":4366.6,"end":4371.6,"text":"所以造成台美的貿易順差不斷擴大"},{"start":4371.6,"end":4380.6,"text":"所以未來美國可能會要求台灣輸入更多的低階農工商品"},{"start":4380.6,"end":4387.6,"text":"所以這會加劇台灣的傳統產業的生存困難"},{"start":4387.6,"end":4393.6,"text":"第二個是根據經濟學理論可以知道或現在已經發生的是"},{"start":4393.6,"end":4398.6,"text":"竹科或者是這些科技新貴的薪水上升"},{"start":4398.6,"end":4403.6,"text":"所以它有能力花更多的錢去消費"},{"start":4403.6,"end":4407.6,"text":"所以拉大的不只是貧富差距"},{"start":4407.6,"end":4410.6,"text":"而且是通貨膨脹"},{"start":4410.6,"end":4417.6,"text":"去年最新的例子就是台灣的生活總成本已經高過日本"},{"start":4417.6,"end":4422.6,"text":"其中很重要的原因是生活雜貨跟餐飲收入"},{"start":4422.6,"end":4428.6,"text":"另外是剛才商總的先進有提到"},{"start":4428.6,"end":4432.6,"text":"台灣絕大多數都是中小企業"},{"start":4432.6,"end":4437.6,"text":"所以不斷的其實我覺得不斷談轉型升級"},{"start":4437.6,"end":4441.6,"text":"對於這些兩人或三人的企業其實是有點困難"},{"start":4442.6,"end":4447.6,"text":"所以我覺得因應的措施後面會進一步提到"},{"start":4447.6,"end":4448.6,"text":"現在總結三個"},{"start":4448.6,"end":4452.6,"text":"第一個是從實成熟製程"},{"start":4452.6,"end":4459.6,"text":"事實上我們有調查包含了美國開始陸續封鎖中國的記憶體"},{"start":4459.6,"end":4462.6,"text":"和剛才商總的前面提到的面板"},{"start":4462.6,"end":4464.6,"text":"甚至最新的逆變器"},{"start":4464.6,"end":4470.6,"text":"所以這些我們認為過去已經被中國指戰的商品"},{"start":4470.6,"end":4473.6,"text":"我們都有機會拿回來重做"},{"start":4473.6,"end":4477.6,"text":"順便帶動所有相關的電子產業"},{"start":4477.6,"end":4479.6,"text":"那更重要我覺得是"},{"start":4479.6,"end":4484.6,"text":"我們應該要去重新定位什麼叫做傳產"},{"start":4484.6,"end":4490.6,"text":"尤其是我們作為台灣不是完全這麼大國"},{"start":4490.6,"end":4495.6,"text":"所以我們要保留哪些跟國安相關的企業"},{"start":4495.6,"end":4497.6,"text":"然後輔導一些"},{"start":4497.6,"end":4502.6,"text":"比如說二代接班有意願不高的廠商退出"},{"start":4502.6,"end":4507.6,"text":"而不是要強迫說你家主上都在做這個"},{"start":4507.6,"end":4509.6,"text":"所以你要繼續撐著"},{"start":4509.6,"end":4511.6,"text":"所以如何退出"},{"start":4511.6,"end":4516.6,"text":"所以與之對應的我覺得更重要是剛才商總有提到的"},{"start":4516.6,"end":4518.6,"text":"厚實服務業"},{"start":4518.6,"end":4521.6,"text":"服務業大概占台灣GDP超過五成"},{"start":4521.6,"end":4524.6,"text":"沒記錯大概54%"},{"start":4524.6,"end":4527.6,"text":"所以如何去發展服務業"},{"start":4527.6,"end":4532.6,"text":"剛才對應過來剛才說二代接班的家主辦公室等等"},{"start":4532.6,"end":4536.6,"text":"金融業才是台灣應該後續可以做的"},{"start":4536.6,"end":4538.6,"text":"所以進步來看一些圖表的部分"},{"start":4538.6,"end":4541.6,"text":"第一個就是剛才各位先進有提到的"},{"start":4541.6,"end":4543.6,"text":"或是各位各部會長官有提到"},{"start":4543.6,"end":4547.6,"text":"台灣的經濟成長率可以看到"},{"start":4547.6,"end":4552.6,"text":"基本上都是薪資年增率的兩倍"},{"start":4552.6,"end":4555.6,"text":"所以換句話說大部分的錢"},{"start":4555.6,"end":4559.6,"text":"除了現在很可能拿去做AI的研發"},{"start":4559.6,"end":4564.6,"text":"另外一塊可能更多的是公司的保留盈餘"},{"start":4564.6,"end":4566.6,"text":"所以如何拿出來"},{"start":4566.6,"end":4570.6,"text":"稍微拿出來一些去補貼勞工的薪資"},{"start":4570.6,"end":4573.6,"text":"所以另外一個這邊提到的台灣經營係數"},{"start":4573.6,"end":4580.6,"text":"也重申回到2009年刺激房貸風暴的時候的高點"},{"start":4580.6,"end":4582.6,"text":"那我們這邊有提到的是"},{"start":4582.6,"end":4589.6,"text":"消費者物價指數基本上較2008年累計成長大約兩成"},{"start":4589.6,"end":4593.6,"text":"當然就平均來講每年的話大概是百分之一"},{"start":4593.6,"end":4596.6,"text":"不過民眾的感受就是另外一回事"},{"start":4596.6,"end":4600.6,"text":"所以這是第一個我覺得K型經濟比較大的問題那邊"},{"start":4600.6,"end":4602.6,"text":"第二個用詞可能比較強烈一點"},{"start":4603.6,"end":4606.6,"text":"親美可以看得到的是"},{"start":4606.6,"end":4612.6,"text":"最近川普最新的301關稅下來"},{"start":4612.6,"end":4618.6,"text":"事實上台灣拿到的關稅稅率應該是世界上最好的一個等級"},{"start":4618.6,"end":4629.6,"text":"那麼往前回溯不管是晶片四方聯盟到所謂的細勝市宣言"},{"start":4629.6,"end":4634.6,"text":"你都可以看到台美的合作是相當快速"},{"start":4634.6,"end":4639.6,"text":"而且某種程度經貿上面是相對友善"},{"start":4639.6,"end":4648.6,"text":"所以如何運用台美之間的經濟自由度人才乃至於世界競爭力"},{"start":4648.6,"end":4651.6,"text":"民主共同鋪墊民主供應鏈"},{"start":4651.6,"end":4654.6,"text":"就如同剛才一開始報告的"},{"start":4654.6,"end":4660.6,"text":"包含半導體面板這些跟記憶或電子有關的"},{"start":4660.6,"end":4664.6,"text":"都是台灣可以重新拿回來的契機"},{"start":4664.6,"end":4668.6,"text":"那麼具體來講另外剛才提到的抗中"},{"start":4668.6,"end":4672.6,"text":"可以看到重點是有兩個"},{"start":4672.6,"end":4679.6,"text":"第一個可以看到因為台灣的高科技和中間材對中國的出口收縮"},{"start":4679.6,"end":4683.6,"text":"那另外一方面產能過剩輸出台灣"},{"start":4683.6,"end":4689.6,"text":"所以台灣在上半年首次對中國出現貨貿逆差"},{"start":4689.6,"end":4696.6,"text":"所以後續我覺得建議這邊有列出來"},{"start":4696.6,"end":4701.6,"text":"加徵關稅禁止強迫勞動進口"},{"start":4701.6,"end":4705.6,"text":"或者剛才民防老師有提到小額包裹關稅等等"},{"start":4705.6,"end":4713.6,"text":"這些都是保障台灣的傳統產業生存空間的重要措施跟手段"},{"start":4713.6,"end":4717.6,"text":"最後就台灣來講這邊只講一點"},{"start":4717.6,"end":4721.6,"text":"第一個是提到的台灣其實不缺錢"},{"start":4721.6,"end":4723.6,"text":"缺的是投資標的"},{"start":4723.6,"end":4727.6,"text":"所以台灣的超額儲蓄率其實都很高"},{"start":4727.6,"end":4730.6,"text":"那麼現在台股的市值剛才先進們都提到"},{"start":4730.6,"end":4733.6,"text":"現在更是世界第四"},{"start":4733.6,"end":4736.6,"text":"所以如何發展金融也是第一個"},{"start":4736.6,"end":4744.6,"text":"第二個是我們的健全組副院長提到的中小企業的所需資源協助"},{"start":4744.6,"end":4747.6,"text":"這邊也有匡列出來供會上參考"},{"start":4747.6,"end":4749.6,"text":"以上報告完畢"},{"start":4749.6,"end":4755.6,"text":"好非常感謝我們中華經濟研究院的副研究員王國成"},{"start":4755.6,"end":4759.6,"text":"接下來我請第六位劉孟俊"},{"start":4759.6,"end":4762.6,"text":"劉孟俊我們中華經濟研究院的所長"},{"start":4762.6,"end":4764.6,"text":"劉所長歡迎您"},{"start":4776.6,"end":4778.6,"text":"各位長官各位先進大家好"},{"start":4778.6,"end":4780.6,"text":"我是劉孟俊"},{"start":4780.6,"end":4784.6,"text":"來接續我們前面好幾個專家學者裡面的發言"},{"start":4784.6,"end":4787.6,"text":"我這樣可以直接跳過一些背景的問題"},{"start":4787.6,"end":4790.6,"text":"那我們來看一下我提出了一個六點的概念"},{"start":4790.6,"end":4793.6,"text":"來改善我們的勞動報酬的一個問題"},{"start":4795.6,"end":4796.6,"text":"首先我們來看一下這個"},{"start":4796.6,"end":4800.6,"text":"剛剛講了很多K型經濟的一些議題"},{"start":4800.6,"end":4803.6,"text":"但是我現在想補充一個數據"},{"start":4803.6,"end":4806.6,"text":"就是說我這邊的報告裡面好像似乎來講是會"},{"start":4806.6,"end":4809.6,"text":"講很多是跟中小企業有關係"},{"start":4809.6,"end":4814.6,"text":"主要是因為中小企業大概是聘僱我們所有的員工"},{"start":4814.6,"end":4819.6,"text":"最新的數據是74.8%"},{"start":4819.6,"end":4821.6,"text":"千年"},{"start":4821.6,"end":4827.6,"text":"然後小企業的薪資大概是我們說5人以下好了"},{"start":4827.6,"end":4831.6,"text":"是低於那個是100人以上"},{"start":4831.6,"end":4833.6,"text":"大概是差個一倍"},{"start":4833.6,"end":4837.6,"text":"所以說我們必須講說改善中小企業裡面的一個競爭力"},{"start":4837.6,"end":4842.6,"text":"是有幫助於我們大部分的勞工裡面的薪資成長"},{"start":4842.6,"end":4846.6,"text":"所以剛才講了很多是K型的往上走跟往下走"},{"start":4846.6,"end":4848.6,"text":"我這邊就跳過去"},{"start":4848.6,"end":4851.6,"text":"那這邊是我們5年勞動報酬"},{"start":4851.6,"end":4855.6,"text":"我們可以看得到2024年的時候已經再繼續往下降"},{"start":4855.6,"end":4860.6,"text":"所以意思是講說今天委員裡面提出一個強化的勞動報酬"},{"start":4860.6,"end":4862.6,"text":"這是有它的意義"},{"start":4862.6,"end":4864.6,"text":"另外的話我們這邊看一下"},{"start":4864.6,"end":4866.6,"text":"就是說我們平均的薪資所的"},{"start":4866.6,"end":4869.6,"text":"跟我們中位數裡面的差距是越來越大"},{"start":4869.6,"end":4873.6,"text":"這邊就表示講說我們的勞動報酬的distribution的話"},{"start":4873.6,"end":4875.6,"text":"是越來越分配不均"},{"start":4875.6,"end":4877.6,"text":"那我們這邊的話"},{"start":4877.6,"end":4884.6,"text":"並不是講說我們要利用到多麼大的一個財政租稅的一些誘因"},{"start":4884.6,"end":4886.6,"text":"或者是一個政策"},{"start":4886.6,"end":4894.6,"text":"來把我們半導體或者AI相關的一些產業裡面的所得再做重分配"},{"start":4894.6,"end":4898.6,"text":"最重要的關係是講說今天會發生一個K型上的發展"},{"start":4898.6,"end":4900.6,"text":"我的概念裡面"},{"start":4900.6,"end":4904.6,"text":"就是我們的半導體跟我們的AI產業裡面的表現"},{"start":4904.6,"end":4906.6,"text":"還有ICT產業裡面表現那麼好"},{"start":4906.6,"end":4909.6,"text":"但是它這邊的一些生產力或競爭力"},{"start":4909.6,"end":4914.6,"text":"能不能spin off到其他的產業或者其他勞工"},{"start":4914.6,"end":4916.6,"text":"這才是關鍵"},{"start":4916.6,"end":4920.6,"text":"我們還要繼續保持我們的產業的競爭力"},{"start":4920.6,"end":4922.6,"text":"但是它競爭力裡面的一些好處"},{"start":4922.6,"end":4926.6,"text":"能夠透過某些管道裡面外溢到其他產業"},{"start":4926.6,"end":4928.6,"text":"我認為這才是一個重點"},{"start":4929.6,"end":4932.6,"text":"那我這邊提出六點的一些想法"},{"start":4932.6,"end":4936.6,"text":"這六點想法表面上看起來好像是針對中小企業"},{"start":4936.6,"end":4942.6,"text":"其實更重要的是針對的是我們要跨部會把我們所有的政策連結在一起"},{"start":4942.6,"end":4945.6,"text":"來幫助我們的小企業"},{"start":4945.6,"end":4950.6,"text":"透過企業內部裡面的一些形式上的調整跟誘因"},{"start":4950.6,"end":4952.6,"text":"來強化我們的競爭力"},{"start":4953.6,"end":4957.6,"text":"首先來看一下我們的第一個想法"},{"start":4957.6,"end":4961.6,"text":"是我們也曾經拜會過許多的企業"},{"start":4961.6,"end":4964.6,"text":"或者參與到相關的一些活動"},{"start":4964.6,"end":4967.6,"text":"企業組裡面講一個"},{"start":4967.6,"end":4969.6,"text":"他說我們好像"},{"start":4969.6,"end":4975.6,"text":"我們的好的優秀的勞工被半導體或者其他產業去吸收"},{"start":4975.6,"end":4978.6,"text":"但是他講說如果說我們的企業"},{"start":4978.6,"end":4983.6,"text":"我們的員工看的是我們的企業有機會將來能夠上市上櫃"},{"start":4983.6,"end":4987.6,"text":"那我們的員工我們的人才就不會被吸收"},{"start":4987.6,"end":4990.6,"text":"那我們就建議一個是怎麼樣"},{"start":4990.6,"end":4993.6,"text":"我們會不會設立一個叫做準創櫃板"},{"start":4993.6,"end":4995.6,"text":"或者準新櫃板"},{"start":4995.6,"end":4997.6,"text":"讓他有一個list裡面的時候"},{"start":4997.6,"end":5000.6,"text":"讓我們的企業裡面覺得有這機會"},{"start":5000.6,"end":5002.6,"text":"將來的話會上市上櫃"},{"start":5002.6,"end":5003.6,"text":"那我的員工也講說"},{"start":5003.6,"end":5004.6,"text":"那我的員工也講說"},{"start":5004.6,"end":5009.6,"text":"我在繼續在這個企業裡面就有未來的想法"},{"start":5009.6,"end":5011.6,"text":"那這樣子的話"},{"start":5011.6,"end":5014.6,"text":"我們的優秀的員工就不會被吸引走"},{"start":5014.6,"end":5015.6,"text":"那我們可以看得到"},{"start":5015.6,"end":5017.6,"text":"國際上是不是有類似一些做法"},{"start":5017.6,"end":5018.6,"text":"的確有"},{"start":5018.6,"end":5020.6,"text":"像英國、日本或韓國等等"},{"start":5020.6,"end":5024.6,"text":"他就是利用所謂的保健人"},{"start":5024.6,"end":5029.6,"text":"或者是講說我們那個準創櫃或準新櫃板裡面的"},{"start":5029.6,"end":5031.6,"text":"針對的是怎麼樣"},{"start":5031.6,"end":5037.6,"text":"叫做venture或者PE等等投資業者"},{"start":5037.6,"end":5040.6,"text":"這樣子的話可能是一個策略的想法"},{"start":5040.6,"end":5042.6,"text":"這樣我們的員工裡面的話"},{"start":5042.6,"end":5046.6,"text":"可以分享未來的一些成長果實"},{"start":5046.6,"end":5048.6,"text":"第二個的話我們提供一些想法"},{"start":5048.6,"end":5051.6,"text":"這個一些想法是這樣子"},{"start":5051.6,"end":5053.6,"text":"就是說我們很多資深的一些技術人員"},{"start":5053.6,"end":5056.6,"text":"尤其我們現在勞工逐漸的老化"},{"start":5056.6,"end":5058.6,"text":"其實他身上有一些know-how"},{"start":5058.6,"end":5061.6,"text":"這些know-how可不可以透過AI的技術裡面"},{"start":5061.6,"end":5064.6,"text":"把隱性知識顯性化"},{"start":5064.6,"end":5066.6,"text":"或者隱性知識隨著數據化"},{"start":5066.6,"end":5068.6,"text":"這樣子的話"},{"start":5068.6,"end":5071.6,"text":"可以幫助我們的企業裡面"},{"start":5071.6,"end":5074.6,"text":"年輕的一些員工裡面"},{"start":5074.6,"end":5075.6,"text":"很快就能catch到"},{"start":5075.6,"end":5078.6,"text":"我們資深的老師傅裡面的那些know-how"},{"start":5078.6,"end":5080.6,"text":"這樣子的話我們可以看得到"},{"start":5080.6,"end":5084.6,"text":"國際上日本也好、韓國也好、德國、新加坡等等"},{"start":5084.6,"end":5086.6,"text":"他用數位的指引"},{"start":5086.6,"end":5089.6,"text":"還有資深的一些專家的進駐"},{"start":5089.6,"end":5092.6,"text":"還有職場裡面的學習跟技術認證"},{"start":5092.6,"end":5096.6,"text":"來幫助我們的年老的talents"},{"start":5096.6,"end":5098.6,"text":"skill worker"},{"start":5098.6,"end":5101.6,"text":"他使他的know-how能夠留下來"},{"start":5101.6,"end":5102.6,"text":"所以說我們可以看到到"},{"start":5102.6,"end":5105.6,"text":"這個數位化並不是取代了老師傅"},{"start":5105.6,"end":5106.6,"text":"而是幫助他的know-how"},{"start":5106.6,"end":5108.6,"text":"能夠更快的繼續傳承下去"},{"start":5108.6,"end":5111.6,"text":"讓我們的中校企業裡面更具有競爭力"},{"start":5111.6,"end":5114.6,"text":"但同時這些的老師傅"},{"start":5114.6,"end":5115.6,"text":"老師傅你們know-how"},{"start":5115.6,"end":5117.6,"text":"如果變成一個數位化的時候"},{"start":5117.6,"end":5119.6,"text":"是不是講說他退休之後"},{"start":5119.6,"end":5122.6,"text":"將來他的know-how變成是一個資產"},{"start":5122.6,"end":5125.6,"text":"可以繼續來分享我們成長果實"},{"start":5125.6,"end":5127.6,"text":"這是第二個一些建議"},{"start":5127.6,"end":5128.6,"text":"第三個建議裡面的話"},{"start":5128.6,"end":5131.6,"text":"剛才我們有些同仁也"},{"start":5131.6,"end":5133.6,"text":"那個播程裡面也講"},{"start":5133.6,"end":5136.6,"text":"是有些企業裡面是有接班困難"},{"start":5136.6,"end":5137.6,"text":"尤其二代接班"},{"start":5137.6,"end":5141.6,"text":"現在又變成一個很重要的一些挑戰"},{"start":5141.6,"end":5143.6,"text":"我們可以被引進了"},{"start":5143.6,"end":5145.6,"text":"基金的一些力量或者創投"},{"start":5145.6,"end":5148.6,"text":"或是其他專業投資人的一些能量"},{"start":5148.6,"end":5151.6,"text":"來幫助我們做一些整合"},{"start":5151.6,"end":5153.6,"text":"我們知道說政府裡面本來就有"},{"start":5153.6,"end":5156.6,"text":"在推動相關的一些措施"},{"start":5156.6,"end":5157.6,"text":"但我們可以被人家講說"},{"start":5157.6,"end":5159.6,"text":"也借鏡一下國際上的一些"},{"start":5159.6,"end":5162.6,"text":"像日本、德國或其他國家裡面"},{"start":5162.6,"end":5164.6,"text":"利用第三方的一些美合的平台"},{"start":5164.6,"end":5166.6,"text":"或者接班的基金"},{"start":5166.6,"end":5167.6,"text":"或者專業的投資機構"},{"start":5167.6,"end":5170.6,"text":"幫助沒有人能夠接班的一些企業裡面"},{"start":5170.6,"end":5173.6,"text":"這些整合裡面是在幫助我們的勞工"},{"start":5173.6,"end":5175.6,"text":"能夠穩定的一些就業機會"},{"start":5175.6,"end":5177.6,"text":"然後規模做大的時候"},{"start":5177.6,"end":5179.6,"text":"使他心智也能夠成長"},{"start":5179.6,"end":5181.6,"text":"這是第三個一些想法"},{"start":5181.6,"end":5182.6,"text":"第四個想法裡面的話"},{"start":5182.6,"end":5184.6,"text":"我覺得說我們可以創造出"},{"start":5184.6,"end":5187.6,"text":"一個新的一些模式"},{"start":5187.6,"end":5189.6,"text":"我不知道說我們現在台灣"},{"start":5189.6,"end":5191.6,"text":"或者是我們金管會或我們政府裡面"},{"start":5191.6,"end":5193.6,"text":"有一直在提倡叫"},{"start":5193.6,"end":5195.6,"text":"綠色金融"},{"start":5195.6,"end":5197.6,"text":"綠色金融裡面我們把它擴大"},{"start":5197.6,"end":5199.6,"text":"我們把它擴大"},{"start":5199.6,"end":5202.6,"text":"講說如果說你可以像日本一樣"},{"start":5202.6,"end":5205.6,"text":"把那個加薪放在你的一個"},{"start":5205.6,"end":5207.6,"text":"政府裡面的一些指引當中的話"},{"start":5207.6,"end":5210.6,"text":"這樣子的話綠色金融可以擴展到什麼樣"},{"start":5210.6,"end":5213.6,"text":"有更多的社會上面的一些責任裡面"},{"start":5213.6,"end":5216.6,"text":"把我們更有加薪的醫院的一些企業裡面"},{"start":5216.6,"end":5218.6,"text":"也可以防止綠色金融可以得到一些"},{"start":5218.6,"end":5221.6,"text":"連結到融資的一些優勢"},{"start":5221.6,"end":5223.6,"text":"第五個的話就是"},{"start":5223.6,"end":5225.6,"text":"我們怎麼幫助我們的勞工"},{"start":5225.6,"end":5228.6,"text":"我們可以用這個數據來使用AI的一些技術"},{"start":5228.6,"end":5229.6,"text":"我們可以仿造"},{"start":5229.6,"end":5231.6,"text":"像這個新加坡"},{"start":5231.6,"end":5233.6,"text":"叫Skilled Future"},{"start":5233.6,"end":5235.6,"text":"或者是德國裡面的"},{"start":5235.6,"end":5237.6,"text":"還有的資格化的一些津貼"},{"start":5237.6,"end":5240.6,"text":"你有些數位的能力等等"},{"start":5240.6,"end":5242.6,"text":"這樣子的話就是幫助我們的勞工"},{"start":5242.6,"end":5245.6,"text":"使用到這個數位跟AI的能力裡面"},{"start":5245.6,"end":5247.6,"text":"這樣可以得到更多的一些優勢"},{"start":5247.6,"end":5249.6,"text":"這樣子的話"},{"start":5249.6,"end":5251.6,"text":"譬如說你具有數位的能力"},{"start":5251.6,"end":5253.6,"text":"可以得到更多的一些薪資"},{"start":5253.6,"end":5255.6,"text":"第六個想法的話"},{"start":5255.6,"end":5257.6,"text":"最後一個的話"},{"start":5257.6,"end":5261.6,"text":"就是幫助我們企業裡面"},{"start":5261.6,"end":5263.6,"text":"中小企業裡面能夠快速的"},{"start":5263.6,"end":5267.6,"text":"去AI的數位轉型一些能力"},{"start":5267.6,"end":5269.6,"text":"這樣的話可以加速他們的效益的落地"},{"start":5269.6,"end":5273.6,"text":"所以換句話說我們現在設立FDE裡面"},{"start":5273.6,"end":5275.6,"text":"譬如說我們的數位部裡面"},{"start":5275.6,"end":5277.6,"text":"可以培育到更多的一些專家"},{"start":5277.6,"end":5279.6,"text":"來進駐到我們企業裡面"},{"start":5279.6,"end":5281.6,"text":"幫助我們的數位轉型"},{"start":5281.6,"end":5284.6,"text":"這邊就書面就留在這邊"},{"start":5284.6,"end":5286.6,"text":"我們不耽誤大家的時間,謝謝"},{"start":5287.6,"end":5291.6,"text":"非常感謝劉夢俊、劉所長"},{"start":5291.6,"end":5293.6,"text":"您的具體的四點建議"},{"start":5293.6,"end":5295.6,"text":"我們也會留下來書面"},{"start":5295.6,"end":5298.6,"text":"給所有的部會同仁做參考"},{"start":5298.6,"end":5300.6,"text":"接下來我請第七位"},{"start":5300.6,"end":5303.6,"text":"我們淡江大學產業經濟學系的副教授"},{"start":5303.6,"end":5304.6,"text":"莊夢翰"},{"start":5304.6,"end":5305.6,"text":"莊副教授"},{"start":5305.6,"end":5307.6,"text":"謝謝您,歡迎您"},{"start":5311.6,"end":5327.6,"text":"好,那邊李委員、各位長官"},{"start":5327.6,"end":5331.6,"text":"各位宇航的專家學生"},{"start":5331.6,"end":5335.6,"text":"我想今天我來跟各位報告的就是"},{"start":5335.6,"end":5337.6,"text":"因為是很大的一個產業"},{"start":5337.6,"end":5343.6,"text":"但是也最近這幾年面臨了一個很大的衝擊"},{"start":5343.6,"end":5345.6,"text":"那這裡面一個重點就是"},{"start":5353.6,"end":5358.6,"text":"所以我列了大概有十幾項的建議事項"},{"start":5358.6,"end":5364.6,"text":"就是說我們為什麼會在整個的防疫產業來講"},{"start":5364.6,"end":5370.6,"text":"我們一直認為它是一個整體的住宅政策"},{"start":5370.6,"end":5372.6,"text":"但事實上它不夠完整"},{"start":5372.6,"end":5379.6,"text":"那我們講居住正義又顯得不夠正義"},{"start":5379.6,"end":5380.6,"text":"這裡面有很多問題"},{"start":5380.6,"end":5385.6,"text":"常在我們這裡面我所寫的幾個問題"},{"start":5385.6,"end":5388.6,"text":"第一個重點我們可能可以看到說"},{"start":5388.6,"end":5391.6,"text":"市場上我們現在在分析的是"},{"start":5391.6,"end":5394.6,"text":"我們分析的是玉石屋、中古屋、新城屋"},{"start":5394.6,"end":5396.6,"text":"但是你看那個資訊的來源"},{"start":5396.6,"end":5400.6,"text":"跟我們政府主管機關有時候會出現一些落差"},{"start":5400.6,"end":5404.6,"text":"有時候我們假設說買賣預準的動數是"},{"start":5404.6,"end":5407.6,"text":"認為應該是在落後指標"},{"start":5407.6,"end":5409.6,"text":"領先同時落後指標"},{"start":5409.6,"end":5411.6,"text":"但是以現在來看的話"},{"start":5411.6,"end":5413.6,"text":"你又不得不回扣著來看說"},{"start":5413.6,"end":5417.6,"text":"以前最高經濟一年可以有四、五十萬戶的買賣的量"},{"start":5417.6,"end":5420.6,"text":"為什麼去年26萬1000戶"},{"start":5420.6,"end":5423.6,"text":"今年可能會在25萬左右"},{"start":5423.6,"end":5425.6,"text":"是不是又回扣著來看"},{"start":5425.6,"end":5427.6,"text":"從後面又檢視回來"},{"start":5427.6,"end":5432.6,"text":"這整個政策是不是可以做一個調整、做一個檢討"},{"start":5432.6,"end":5435.6,"text":"我剛剛所講這裡面有一個重點就是說"},{"start":5435.6,"end":5438.6,"text":"通常玉石屋大家認為是一個"},{"start":5438.6,"end":5443.6,"text":"在房地產的發展過程的領先指標"},{"start":5443.6,"end":5447.6,"text":"但是這裡面我們現在宜莊宜航也是一樣"},{"start":5447.6,"end":5452.6,"text":"大家在觀察國泰的房價指數"},{"start":5452.6,"end":5455.6,"text":"但是國泰的房價指數又沒有辦法把"},{"start":5455.6,"end":5458.6,"text":"實價登錄的部分從不反映出來"},{"start":5458.6,"end":5463.6,"text":"實價登錄就是這幾年都隱藏著不實的交易價格"},{"start":5463.6,"end":5467.6,"text":"為什麼?因為你在退燃的時候"},{"start":5467.6,"end":5470.6,"text":"你簽約三天之內要報備"},{"start":5470.6,"end":5472.6,"text":"但是你交易並沒有要再報備一次"},{"start":5472.6,"end":5475.6,"text":"所以這兩個價格沒有辦法去核對"},{"start":5475.6,"end":5477.6,"text":"中間潛藏什麼?以現在來講"},{"start":5477.6,"end":5481.6,"text":"三年前買的跟現在落差最少10%以上"},{"start":5481.6,"end":5486.6,"text":"這個絕對沒有辦法在國泰的房價指數顯現出來"},{"start":5486.6,"end":5489.6,"text":"我們在採樣的時候會發覺說"},{"start":5489.6,"end":5495.6,"text":"那怎麼國泰的房價明明是上一季才133萬5"},{"start":5495.6,"end":5499.6,"text":"特別是現在為什麼到第二季變成138萬6"},{"start":5499.6,"end":5501.6,"text":"怎麼會這麼奇怪"},{"start":5501.6,"end":5503.6,"text":"你中南部的話一疊又是一層兩層"},{"start":5503.6,"end":5506.6,"text":"但是看不出來就是你在家屋的時候"},{"start":5506.6,"end":5513.6,"text":"隱藏著對用然後送裝網、送家具等等"},{"start":5513.6,"end":5516.6,"text":"包括廣告書寫的也可以看得出來"},{"start":5516.6,"end":5519.6,"text":"但是這個我們在數據上是看不出來的"},{"start":5519.6,"end":5522.6,"text":"第二個你新成物來講我們通常會看什麼?"},{"start":5522.6,"end":5524.6,"text":"會看比如說591"},{"start":5524.6,"end":5527.6,"text":"591是包括玉壽中古新成物都有"},{"start":5527.6,"end":5533.6,"text":"你還有一個是以北部地區北臺灣"},{"start":5533.6,"end":5535.6,"text":"大概也有一個駐展雜質"},{"start":5535.6,"end":5541.6,"text":"然後你中古就看基於王屋跟永續王屋為主"},{"start":5541.6,"end":5544.6,"text":"所以你會發覺說這個數據都不一樣"},{"start":5544.6,"end":5547.6,"text":"那你如果中古屋來講價格比較穩定"},{"start":5547.6,"end":5549.6,"text":"玉壽幾乎沒有辦法非常大"},{"start":5549.6,"end":5553.6,"text":"所以我剛剛講你看國泰的話真的有很多的問題"},{"start":5553.6,"end":5556.6,"text":"第一個我們要跟各位報告的是說"},{"start":5556.6,"end":5560.6,"text":"要密切注意K型的分化"},{"start":5560.6,"end":5563.6,"text":"然後是不是有V型、U型、L型"},{"start":5563.6,"end":5567.6,"text":"有些地區你在看臺北市好像好像疊了"},{"start":5567.6,"end":5569.6,"text":"又上來好像有點V字型"},{"start":5569.6,"end":5571.6,"text":"但是如果你去看中南部"},{"start":5571.6,"end":5575.6,"text":"它可能這樣下來以後它是一個L型"},{"start":5575.6,"end":5579.6,"text":"淡水長期是一個L型的一個趨勢"},{"start":5579.6,"end":5581.6,"text":"第二點我們的普通產集中度"},{"start":5581.6,"end":5584.6,"text":"是央行在追蹤的一個指標"},{"start":5584.6,"end":5588.6,"text":"但現在已經降到了35.17"},{"start":5588.6,"end":5592.6,"text":"所以我會建議說是不是可以適度的鬆綁一下"},{"start":5592.6,"end":5593.6,"text":"鬆綁大概一成左右"},{"start":5593.6,"end":5595.6,"text":"所以建議對低壓負擔貸的關係"},{"start":5595.6,"end":5597.6,"text":"適度鬆綁一成"},{"start":5597.6,"end":5598.6,"text":"高價也鬆綁一成"},{"start":5598.6,"end":5601.6,"text":"後面我們可以計算式來跟各位報告"},{"start":5601.6,"end":5604.6,"text":"你可以從第五點的廣告數學裡面看到"},{"start":5604.6,"end":5606.6,"text":"這裡面事實上是推量量降"},{"start":5606.6,"end":5610.6,"text":"然後再加上溢價率也下來"},{"start":5610.6,"end":5612.6,"text":"然後稍稍等一下"},{"start":5612.6,"end":5614.6,"text":"這是溢價率是上的"},{"start":5614.6,"end":5617.6,"text":"再來第七點的部分就講到"},{"start":5617.6,"end":5620.6,"text":"實價登錄是隱含的不死交易價格"},{"start":5620.6,"end":5622.6,"text":"然後要注意空污漁有多少"},{"start":5622.6,"end":5625.6,"text":"然後我們以前在追蹤是從建造制到使用制"},{"start":5625.6,"end":5627.6,"text":"到開工到完工"},{"start":5627.6,"end":5629.6,"text":"然後再看買賣漁船"},{"start":5629.6,"end":5631.6,"text":"現在的全部不靈了"},{"start":5631.6,"end":5632.6,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":5632.6,"end":5636.6,"text":"因為央行那個第七波選擇性信用管制"},{"start":5636.6,"end":5641.6,"text":"把建商的漁屋貸款只有30%"},{"start":5641.6,"end":5644.6,"text":"然後第一部分我們也有講"},{"start":5644.6,"end":5647.6,"text":"第二戶貸款本來是只有五成"},{"start":5647.6,"end":5649.6,"text":"提高到六成"},{"start":5649.6,"end":5650.6,"text":"大概這樣"},{"start":5650.6,"end":5651.6,"text":"那這樣子整個的"},{"start":5651.6,"end":5654.6,"text":"就是原來按照以前的預設制度來講"},{"start":5654.6,"end":5657.6,"text":"都是說貸款規到七成八成"},{"start":5657.6,"end":5658.6,"text":"這個落差"},{"start":5658.6,"end":5660.6,"text":"然後拼拼房價又高漲"},{"start":5660.6,"end":5661.6,"text":"然後高漲"},{"start":5661.6,"end":5663.6,"text":"所得也沒有跟上"},{"start":5663.6,"end":5667.6,"text":"那就造成我們剛剛K型的是有錢人"},{"start":5667.6,"end":5669.6,"text":"他真的是非常的有錢"},{"start":5669.6,"end":5671.6,"text":"買房子買豪宅"},{"start":5671.6,"end":5673.6,"text":"他不用去貸款"},{"start":5673.6,"end":5676.6,"text":"就是沒錢的人去利用新清安"},{"start":5676.6,"end":5678.6,"text":"結果新清安掉入了陷阱"},{"start":5678.6,"end":5679.6,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":5679.6,"end":5681.6,"text":"我說利益良善"},{"start":5681.6,"end":5683.6,"text":"新清安應該是在第十點"},{"start":5683.6,"end":5685.6,"text":"利益良善時機不對"},{"start":5685.6,"end":5687.6,"text":"為什麼你在高峰期"},{"start":5687.6,"end":5689.6,"text":"交高峰期就應該要下來了"},{"start":5689.6,"end":5693.6,"text":"我們為什麼主管機關對於這個發展趨勢"},{"start":5693.6,"end":5695.6,"text":"沒有辦法充分掌握"},{"start":5695.6,"end":5697.6,"text":"我想石家登陸應該也會注意到"},{"start":5697.6,"end":5700.6,"text":"有時候助長有時候助手"},{"start":5700.6,"end":5701.6,"text":"所以這是我覺得"},{"start":5701.6,"end":5704.6,"text":"我們以後稍微要再注意一下"},{"start":5704.6,"end":5706.6,"text":"然後另一個問題就是"},{"start":5706.6,"end":5708.6,"text":"空污流"},{"start":5708.6,"end":5710.6,"text":"各位一定可以慢慢看到說"},{"start":5710.6,"end":5714.6,"text":"重化區蛋白區大型的建案的交無潮"},{"start":5714.6,"end":5716.6,"text":"這個的後遺症已經出現了"},{"start":5716.6,"end":5718.6,"text":"但是我們的"},{"start":5718.6,"end":5720.6,"text":"就是因為預售"},{"start":5720.6,"end":5722.6,"text":"從預售"},{"start":5723.6,"end":5725.6,"text":"出售的時候"},{"start":5725.6,"end":5727.6,"text":"公開銷售到完工"},{"start":5727.6,"end":5730.6,"text":"最少要有四年以上的時間"},{"start":5730.6,"end":5734.6,"text":"這樣來講就會產生很多的資訊的落差"},{"start":5734.6,"end":5736.6,"text":"另一個重點"},{"start":5736.6,"end":5738.6,"text":"是都更危老"},{"start":5738.6,"end":5740.6,"text":"我想我們內政部都講說"},{"start":5740.6,"end":5742.6,"text":"危老超車很高興"},{"start":5742.6,"end":5743.6,"text":"我說不要高興"},{"start":5743.6,"end":5746.6,"text":"從十年前開始講危老的時候"},{"start":5746.6,"end":5748.6,"text":"會出現很多的落差"},{"start":5748.6,"end":5753.6,"text":"就是整個的市場性的問題等等"},{"start":5753.6,"end":5756.6,"text":"那我這邊就是講地區波的部分"},{"start":5756.6,"end":5758.6,"text":"這是已經到了"},{"start":5760.6,"end":5761.6,"text":"第二戶"},{"start":5761.6,"end":5763.6,"text":"貸款提高一點點"},{"start":5763.6,"end":5765.6,"text":"這是之後提高的"},{"start":5765.6,"end":5766.6,"text":"好"},{"start":5766.6,"end":5767.6,"text":"那這裡面有一個重點"},{"start":5767.6,"end":5769.6,"text":"我的重點在這裡說"},{"start":5769.6,"end":5773.6,"text":"如果我們預期房價上漲的話"},{"start":5773.6,"end":5777.6,"text":"大概都是在2018到2024年的第二季"},{"start":5777.6,"end":5780.6,"text":"你的建價可能會從180"},{"start":5780.6,"end":5783.6,"text":"提高到110"},{"start":5783.6,"end":5785.6,"text":"以前正常貸款7成到8成"},{"start":5785.6,"end":5787.6,"text":"所以你可能會發覺說"},{"start":5787.6,"end":5790.6,"text":"貸款可以到7成到8成"},{"start":5790.6,"end":5791.6,"text":"就是說"},{"start":5791.6,"end":5794.6,"text":"110%乘以貸款7成到8成當中"},{"start":5794.6,"end":5797.6,"text":"還是會在7到8成沒問題"},{"start":5797.6,"end":5798.6,"text":"但是預期下跌"},{"start":5798.6,"end":5799.6,"text":"現在是下跌"},{"start":5799.6,"end":5801.6,"text":"我覺得2029年還是會下跌"},{"start":5801.6,"end":5803.6,"text":"它的建價就會降到"},{"start":5803.6,"end":5805.6,"text":"最少降低90%"},{"start":5805.6,"end":5808.6,"text":"接下來這次會注意到說"},{"start":5808.6,"end":5811.6,"text":"如果你的貸款是5成到6成"},{"start":5811.6,"end":5814.6,"text":"最後可能貸款打折下來"},{"start":5814.6,"end":5816.6,"text":"最後也63%"},{"start":5816.6,"end":5817.6,"text":"我的意思是說"},{"start":5817.6,"end":5820.6,"text":"如果我們把貸款的部分"},{"start":5820.6,"end":5822.6,"text":"就是卓越提高一成"},{"start":5822.6,"end":5824.6,"text":"最後從建價"},{"start":5824.6,"end":5827.6,"text":"銀行的建價因為已經自主管理"},{"start":5827.6,"end":5829.6,"text":"它一定會往下調"},{"start":5829.6,"end":5831.6,"text":"頂多也不過是63%"},{"start":5831.6,"end":5834.6,"text":"所以比原來的7成到8成還很低"},{"start":5834.6,"end":5835.6,"text":"所以這不用擔心"},{"start":5835.6,"end":5836.6,"text":"所以我一直建議說"},{"start":5836.6,"end":5838.6,"text":"市住的雙方比較重要"},{"start":5838.6,"end":5840.6,"text":"另外一個重點就是說"},{"start":5840.6,"end":5845.6,"text":"我們股市跟房市的變動"},{"start":5845.6,"end":5847.6,"text":"造成我們的市場波動"},{"start":5847.6,"end":5849.6,"text":"大家看不太清楚"},{"start":5853.6,"end":5855.6,"text":"這邊就是講到"},{"start":5855.6,"end":5857.6,"text":"台北市的房價"},{"start":5857.6,"end":5859.6,"text":"其實為什麼會大家"},{"start":5859.6,"end":5861.6,"text":"一直想把資金放在不動產"},{"start":5861.6,"end":5863.6,"text":"就是因為從1966年"},{"start":5863.6,"end":5865.6,"text":"左下方那個是"},{"start":5865.6,"end":5867.6,"text":"那時候一坪大概0.37"},{"start":5867.6,"end":5869.6,"text":"是3000區而已"},{"start":5869.6,"end":5871.6,"text":"到現在已經133萬多"},{"start":5871.6,"end":5873.6,"text":"就變成漲多跌少"},{"start":5873.6,"end":5875.6,"text":"漲多跌少那個趨勢"},{"start":5875.6,"end":5877.6,"text":"我想主要是跟各位來報告"},{"start":5877.6,"end":5879.6,"text":"剛剛那個部分就是"},{"start":5879.6,"end":5881.6,"text":"如果我們"},{"start":5881.6,"end":5884.6,"text":"當行市住的雙板一成的話"},{"start":5884.6,"end":5889.6,"text":"大概貸款也不過是原來的6成多而已"},{"start":5889.6,"end":5891.6,"text":"也沒有超過7成"},{"start":5891.6,"end":5892.6,"text":"所以我一直建議說"},{"start":5892.6,"end":5895.6,"text":"可以適度的雙板房貸"},{"start":5895.6,"end":5901.6,"text":"然後讓買方跟建商跟銀行"},{"start":5901.6,"end":5904.6,"text":"都可以同時在一個平衡點之下"},{"start":5904.6,"end":5910.6,"text":"取得一個解套的方法"},{"start":5910.6,"end":5913.6,"text":"然後從我們"},{"start":5913.6,"end":5916.6,"text":"大家擔心的硬著陸"},{"start":5916.6,"end":5919.6,"text":"就會慢慢傾向於軟著陸的發展"},{"start":5919.6,"end":5921.6,"text":"謝謝各位"},{"start":5921.6,"end":5925.6,"text":"非常感謝莊孟翰教授"},{"start":5925.6,"end":5928.6,"text":"對於近期在第七波"},{"start":5928.6,"end":5930.6,"text":"央行信用管制之後"},{"start":5930.6,"end":5933.6,"text":"對於整體房貸的衝擊"},{"start":5933.6,"end":5935.6,"text":"好幾位財務會的委員"},{"start":5935.6,"end":5937.6,"text":"也關注過相關的議題"},{"start":5937.6,"end":5939.6,"text":"在各縣市的狀況之下"},{"start":5939.6,"end":5941.6,"text":"其實成像差距之下"},{"start":5941.6,"end":5944.6,"text":"各地方房地產的價格有相當大的差異"},{"start":5944.6,"end":5947.6,"text":"當然房地產是整體台灣"},{"start":5947.6,"end":5950.6,"text":"上下有產業鏈其實也是非常關鍵的"},{"start":5950.6,"end":5952.6,"text":"也聽聞從媒體報導"},{"start":5952.6,"end":5955.6,"text":"也知道最近開始相關的產業"},{"start":5955.6,"end":5958.6,"text":"有開始放五星價的狀況"},{"start":5958.6,"end":5961.6,"text":"當然這一點也需要我們央行特別關注"},{"start":5961.6,"end":5963.6,"text":"做以上剛才莊教授的建議"},{"start":5963.6,"end":5966.6,"text":"請央行去做參考"},{"start":5966.6,"end":5969.6,"text":"接下來第八位請張其露"},{"start":5969.6,"end":5973.6,"text":"我是央行部我們的國立中山大學政治經濟學系的教授"},{"start":5973.6,"end":5975.6,"text":"請張教授歡迎您"},{"start":5985.6,"end":5987.6,"text":"好 趙偉"},{"start":5987.6,"end":5991.6,"text":"我們各位委員還有我們參與公聽會的所有專家學者"},{"start":5991.6,"end":5994.6,"text":"跟我們行政部門的同仁"},{"start":5994.6,"end":5995.6,"text":"大家早安"},{"start":5995.6,"end":5999.6,"text":"好 很高興今天來跟大家討論"},{"start":5999.6,"end":6001.6,"text":"算是一個非常重要的主題"},{"start":6001.6,"end":6005.6,"text":"其實我這邊很精簡的先大概先跟各位報告一下"},{"start":6005.6,"end":6007.6,"text":"大概我的主軸"},{"start":6007.6,"end":6013.6,"text":"我們先來談一下今天碰到真實的問題到底是什麼"},{"start":6013.6,"end":6018.6,"text":"其次我們可能用我們確實有的一些數據資料"},{"start":6018.6,"end":6020.6,"text":"來看這樣的一個情況"},{"start":6020.6,"end":6022.6,"text":"當然我們也會提出就是說"},{"start":6022.6,"end":6024.6,"text":"我們在面臨的這樣子的這個問題"},{"start":6024.6,"end":6026.6,"text":"它的原因到底是什麼"},{"start":6026.6,"end":6029.6,"text":"當然最重要的是今天公聽會當然也希望知道說"},{"start":6029.6,"end":6032.6,"text":"是不是有具體改善的這個策略性的這個建議"},{"start":6032.6,"end":6034.6,"text":"那我大概也提出兩個大的方向"},{"start":6034.6,"end":6036.6,"text":"最後我們做個總結"},{"start":6036.6,"end":6038.6,"text":"好 我想這個從這個高成長"},{"start":6038.6,"end":6042.6,"text":"低擴散到共享成長這件事是應該這樣談"},{"start":6042.6,"end":6045.6,"text":"就是這個K型經濟大家很瞭解"},{"start":6045.6,"end":6048.6,"text":"就是這個AI半導體跟資本密集的這個部門"},{"start":6048.6,"end":6051.6,"text":"它這個高產值高獲利高薪"},{"start":6051.6,"end":6055.6,"text":"另外一個部分其實就是我們這個傳統產業中小企業"},{"start":6055.6,"end":6057.6,"text":"還有多數的勞工"},{"start":6057.6,"end":6061.6,"text":"他們未必能享受到這樣子的一個經濟成果"},{"start":6061.6,"end":6064.6,"text":"我想這就是這個K型經濟的概念"},{"start":6066.6,"end":6068.6,"text":"那當然這個概念是這樣"},{"start":6068.6,"end":6070.6,"text":"就是說我們並不是說沒有成長"},{"start":6070.6,"end":6074.6,"text":"而是這個成長沒有充分傳導下去"},{"start":6074.6,"end":6077.6,"text":"甚至經濟的果實沒有被共享"},{"start":6077.6,"end":6079.6,"text":"我想就是說同一波的這個經濟成長"},{"start":6079.6,"end":6081.6,"text":"那當然是有上行部門"},{"start":6081.6,"end":6083.6,"text":"但是也有低擴散部門"},{"start":6083.6,"end":6086.6,"text":"甚至可能以相對來講它會變得更差"},{"start":6086.6,"end":6088.6,"text":"所以這個地方當然我直接我們就是說"},{"start":6088.6,"end":6090.6,"text":"這裡面看得出來有幾個段列"},{"start":6090.6,"end":6092.6,"text":"包括一個是成長的段列"},{"start":6092.6,"end":6097.6,"text":"就是總體成長跟我們的勞工的這個薪資的分配"},{"start":6097.6,"end":6099.6,"text":"第二個就是產業的段列"},{"start":6099.6,"end":6103.6,"text":"就是高科技的這個產業跟非半導體的這些產業"},{"start":6103.6,"end":6105.6,"text":"那再來一個是能力的段列"},{"start":6105.6,"end":6107.6,"text":"就是有大型跟中小型"},{"start":6107.6,"end":6111.6,"text":"這就是我們至少去觀察這個問題可以看得出來"},{"start":6112.6,"end":6114.6,"text":"然後當然這些也都有數據"},{"start":6114.6,"end":6118.6,"text":"其實當然我們這邊不用援引太多"},{"start":6118.6,"end":6120.6,"text":"前面的專家學者也講得很清楚"},{"start":6120.6,"end":6123.6,"text":"其實不管是總體成長、出口動能"},{"start":6123.6,"end":6127.6,"text":"或者我們看我們的這個平均薪資或中位數薪資"},{"start":6127.6,"end":6129.6,"text":"或者我們的這個財政能力"},{"start":6130.6,"end":6133.6,"text":"其實台灣的經濟好不好?超好啊"},{"start":6133.6,"end":6136.6,"text":"可是是不是每一個人都分享到?"},{"start":6136.6,"end":6138.6,"text":"這個包括就是什麼?"},{"start":6138.6,"end":6140.6,"text":"我們現在成長高度集中"},{"start":6140.6,"end":6143.6,"text":"尤其是集中在所謂這個半導體電腦"},{"start":6143.6,"end":6145.6,"text":"電子及光學產品"},{"start":6145.6,"end":6149.6,"text":"這些我想我們主席總處都已經盤點得很好了"},{"start":6149.6,"end":6151.6,"text":"那我們薪資的這個傳導的偏弱"},{"start":6151.6,"end":6154.6,"text":"就是說我們GDP跟出口快速擴張"},{"start":6154.6,"end":6159.6,"text":"但是我們本國全時受僱員工的這個薪資成長"},{"start":6159.6,"end":6162.6,"text":"卻是在所有這些成長裡面最低的"},{"start":6163.6,"end":6167.6,"text":"再來一個當然我們也有很不錯的財政的收入近期"},{"start":6167.6,"end":6169.6,"text":"因為我們的總體好嘛"},{"start":6169.6,"end":6171.6,"text":"我想這大家都很了解"},{"start":6171.6,"end":6172.6,"text":"我就不多囉嗦了"},{"start":6172.6,"end":6176.6,"text":"那當然這裡面就看出我剛才前面講的斷裂"},{"start":6176.6,"end":6181.6,"text":"這個斷裂就是說我們整個這些好的果實"},{"start":6181.6,"end":6185.6,"text":"尤其是直白講我想最多專家學者提出來的"},{"start":6185.6,"end":6189.6,"text":"就是說你實質的這個GDP成長裡面"},{"start":6189.6,"end":6191.6,"text":"比如勞工的這個分配有到底多少?"},{"start":6191.6,"end":6194.6,"text":"勞工的這個薪資占GDP的比例是多少?"},{"start":6194.6,"end":6196.6,"text":"再來一個是高科技跟半導體這些"},{"start":6196.6,"end":6201.6,"text":"當然它也有包括了很多這個不同的產業之間"},{"start":6201.6,"end":6204.6,"text":"可能有人分享到的這個"},{"start":6204.6,"end":6206.6,"text":"但是不是在這個圈內的話"},{"start":6206.6,"end":6208.6,"text":"它可能它這個斷裂很大"},{"start":6208.6,"end":6210.6,"text":"那當然還有大跟小之間"},{"start":6210.6,"end":6211.6,"text":"當然這裡面就會衍生到一些"},{"start":6211.6,"end":6214.6,"text":"我這邊其實有寫但是時間有限"},{"start":6214.6,"end":6216.6,"text":"我們的可以追蹤的一些指標"},{"start":6216.6,"end":6220.6,"text":"不過這個等一下我乾脆就在建議裡面一起來處理了"},{"start":6220.6,"end":6223.6,"text":"那當然這個有很多學理基礎"},{"start":6223.6,"end":6226.6,"text":"其實坦白說學衝體經濟當然大家都很清楚"},{"start":6226.6,"end":6227.6,"text":"到底怎麼發生的?"},{"start":6227.6,"end":6230.6,"text":"一個就是薪資跟生產力的這個脫鉤"},{"start":6230.6,"end":6233.6,"text":"這裡我其實也盤點了很多OECD的這個報告"},{"start":6233.6,"end":6235.6,"text":"大家很清楚了就不用多說"},{"start":6235.6,"end":6238.6,"text":"最主要就是我們勞動占比下降"},{"start":6238.6,"end":6241.6,"text":"那它占整個GDP的這個分配裡面"},{"start":6241.6,"end":6243.6,"text":"它這個比例是越來越低"},{"start":6243.6,"end":6247.6,"text":"其實主計總處大概已經是兩年前都已經做出來了"},{"start":6247.6,"end":6249.6,"text":"大概已經是兩年前都已經做出來了"},{"start":6249.6,"end":6252.6,"text":"這個我們已經創了十年的新低"},{"start":6252.6,"end":6255.6,"text":"就是勞工在GDP這種大餅裡面"},{"start":6255.6,"end":6257.6,"text":"它這個分配的這個share是越來越少的"},{"start":6257.6,"end":6259.6,"text":"那另外還有明星產業的出現"},{"start":6259.6,"end":6261.6,"text":"它也做出一些排擠"},{"start":6261.6,"end":6264.6,"text":"這個也是有一些學理的支撐的"},{"start":6264.6,"end":6267.6,"text":"那再來就是企業生產力的這個分化"},{"start":6267.6,"end":6270.6,"text":"不是每個企業都有這個能力去做這些事的"},{"start":6270.6,"end":6272.6,"text":"它也要有它自己的能力"},{"start":6272.6,"end":6274.6,"text":"這些OECD其實也都有盤點"},{"start":6274.6,"end":6277.6,"text":"那因為時間我看有限我也不能再多說"},{"start":6277.6,"end":6280.6,"text":"我就直接要先到這個"},{"start":6280.6,"end":6283.6,"text":"必須檢討我們現行的政策"},{"start":6283.6,"end":6285.6,"text":"我們現行不是沒有政策"},{"start":6285.6,"end":6288.6,"text":"我想這次公聽會之前幕僚同樣也準備得很好"},{"start":6288.6,"end":6291.6,"text":"其實不管是經濟部主管的相關的這些特別預算"},{"start":6291.6,"end":6294.6,"text":"或者是甚至在這個中小級新創企業"},{"start":6294.6,"end":6297.6,"text":"這個署所做的這個金融支持"},{"start":6297.6,"end":6298.6,"text":"其實都有"},{"start":6298.6,"end":6301.6,"text":"但是我們這邊直接點出核心的這個問題"},{"start":6301.6,"end":6303.6,"text":"包括就是說這些現代的作為"},{"start":6303.6,"end":6306.6,"text":"是不是只看投入沒有看政策的競效果"},{"start":6306.6,"end":6309.6,"text":"還有只提供資金協助沒有處理企業能力"},{"start":6309.6,"end":6313.6,"text":"以及申請至可能形成強者越強弱者越弱"},{"start":6313.6,"end":6315.6,"text":"最後一個就是補助這些企業"},{"start":6315.6,"end":6317.6,"text":"勞工他到底有沒有被分享到"},{"start":6317.6,"end":6319.6,"text":"這些有沒有追蹤"},{"start":6319.6,"end":6321.6,"text":"所以這個地方的時候我們也盤點說"},{"start":6321.6,"end":6325.6,"text":"目前的這些行政措施真正它還是有些盲點的"},{"start":6325.6,"end":6328.6,"text":"那然後因為時間太有限"},{"start":6328.6,"end":6330.6,"text":"我就只能直接說了"},{"start":6330.6,"end":6331.6,"text":"我們的政策建議"},{"start":6331.6,"end":6336.6,"text":"我們必須第一個建立成長擴散跟共享成果的指標系統"},{"start":6336.6,"end":6339.6,"text":"其實我這邊已經盤點了至少有五類"},{"start":6339.6,"end":6342.6,"text":"第一個就是成長擴散率的這種指標"},{"start":6342.6,"end":6346.6,"text":"這個簡單講就是我們用我們的實質中位數薪資的成長"},{"start":6346.6,"end":6349.6,"text":"除以實質勞動力生產的這個成長"},{"start":6349.6,"end":6351.6,"text":"就是它都有成長"},{"start":6351.6,"end":6354.6,"text":"但是我們看哪一個這個成長的這個比例"},{"start":6354.6,"end":6357.6,"text":"這個地方其實是可以建構一些新的指標的"},{"start":6357.6,"end":6359.6,"text":"再來一個就是勞動成果的這個分享"},{"start":6359.6,"end":6363.6,"text":"也就是說他到底這個勞動占GDP的這個比例"},{"start":6363.6,"end":6365.6,"text":"還有不同產業別之間"},{"start":6365.6,"end":6367.6,"text":"這關係到底是什麼"},{"start":6367.6,"end":6368.6,"text":"再來一個就是高科技的"},{"start":6368.6,"end":6370.6,"text":"他真的到底有沒有外溢"},{"start":6370.6,"end":6372.6,"text":"其實這裡我們也欠缺一些指標"},{"start":6372.6,"end":6374.6,"text":"就包括就是說他是不是比如說"},{"start":6374.6,"end":6375.6,"text":"他雖然是台積電很棒"},{"start":6375.6,"end":6377.6,"text":"但是他在我們在地的採購"},{"start":6377.6,"end":6382.6,"text":"他帶動的在其他的這種生產力薪資出口及地方就業的這種變化"},{"start":6382.6,"end":6385.6,"text":"這個其實也應該去衡量去琢磨"},{"start":6385.6,"end":6390.6,"text":"他是不是有辦法把他這個外溢效果也建構具體的指標"},{"start":6390.6,"end":6392.6,"text":"再來一個就是補助附加效果"},{"start":6392.6,"end":6394.6,"text":"坦白說我們要知道我們的補助"},{"start":6394.6,"end":6396.6,"text":"我們不是只有投入"},{"start":6396.6,"end":6399.6,"text":"但是我們不知道這個進產出產出的到底是什麼"},{"start":6399.6,"end":6404.6,"text":"尤其是帶動了多少投資研發加薪跟中高薪工作"},{"start":6404.6,"end":6406.6,"text":"這個到底多少"},{"start":6406.6,"end":6408.6,"text":"最後一個是政策受益的這個部分"},{"start":6408.6,"end":6411.6,"text":"就是說到底誰受益了哪些產業"},{"start":6411.6,"end":6413.6,"text":"這樣的這個區分"},{"start":6413.6,"end":6416.6,"text":"也許可能我們行政部門會說我們也做了一些"},{"start":6416.6,"end":6419.6,"text":"但是可能這些很具體的因為我這邊寫得比較細"},{"start":6419.6,"end":6421.6,"text":"也請可以參考一下"},{"start":6421.6,"end":6425.6,"text":"當然我們也可以有五項直接可以就做的制度改革"},{"start":6425.6,"end":6430.6,"text":"這個包括我們是不是要納入重大公共支持的共享成長條款"},{"start":6430.6,"end":6434.6,"text":"簡單講就是如果你得到了這些政府支持的好處"},{"start":6434.6,"end":6436.6,"text":"那你有共享出去嗎"},{"start":6436.6,"end":6439.6,"text":"這邊我們其實就是說我們可能不管是這個"},{"start":6439.6,"end":6444.6,"text":"他是不是要有這個分紅的這個調整人才培育的這個計畫"},{"start":6444.6,"end":6446.6,"text":"他怎麼樣擴散給他的員工"},{"start":6446.6,"end":6449.6,"text":"還有建立產業別的共同轉型平台"},{"start":6449.6,"end":6453.6,"text":"坦白講很多中小企業他其實每個人都重複投資"},{"start":6453.6,"end":6455.6,"text":"而且他可能也做不來"},{"start":6455.6,"end":6456.6,"text":"他也沒這個資源"},{"start":6456.6,"end":6459.6,"text":"所以是不是由政府做這個共享的這個"},{"start":6459.6,"end":6462.6,"text":"這樣整合AIA資安碳盤查這些認證"},{"start":6462.6,"end":6465.6,"text":"這又是政府做總的來提供中小企業"},{"start":6465.6,"end":6468.6,"text":"再來就是龍頭帶動中小的這種責任機制"},{"start":6468.6,"end":6470.6,"text":"就是我們這些大型的企業"},{"start":6470.6,"end":6474.6,"text":"他是不是也發揮他用這個領頭羊的這個作用"},{"start":6474.6,"end":6478.6,"text":"再來就是說我們金融支持要改為融資診斷跟轉型"},{"start":6478.6,"end":6480.6,"text":"就是說這些不是只給他錢"},{"start":6480.6,"end":6482.6,"text":"還包括我們要分析他"},{"start":6482.6,"end":6484.6,"text":"然後他做了什麼事"},{"start":6484.6,"end":6489.6,"text":"最後一個就是說這些產業的輔助還是要有落日跟比較跟追回的機制"},{"start":6489.6,"end":6492.6,"text":"就是說我們事實上這個評估要可能更審慎"},{"start":6492.6,"end":6494.6,"text":"抱歉因為時間有限我只能寫的"},{"start":6494.6,"end":6496.6,"text":"裡面其實都有寫"},{"start":6496.6,"end":6498.6,"text":"再請參考"},{"start":6498.6,"end":6499.6,"text":"最後一頁"},{"start":6499.6,"end":6506.6,"text":"那我想總結就是說我們希望從一個這種發展型的國家的概念走向一個共享"},{"start":6506.6,"end":6508.6,"text":"其實我們現在台灣經濟既然已經有了這個成果"},{"start":6508.6,"end":6511.6,"text":"那不應該是有的人更好"},{"start":6511.6,"end":6513.6,"text":"但是有的人反而是越走越差"},{"start":6513.6,"end":6516.6,"text":"所以這個怎麼樣從做大總量"},{"start":6516.6,"end":6518.6,"text":"然後從補助個別企業這樣的著手"},{"start":6518.6,"end":6521.6,"text":"然後再從資源的這個投入等等做好"},{"start":6521.6,"end":6523.6,"text":"我們半導體的成功並不是問題"},{"start":6523.6,"end":6525.6,"text":"那經濟的成長也不是問題"},{"start":6525.6,"end":6527.6,"text":"那政府的稅收增加更不是問題"},{"start":6527.6,"end":6530.6,"text":"那重點是說我們怎麼樣讓他擴散出去"},{"start":6530.6,"end":6532.6,"text":"怎麼樣讓勞工的薪資真正增加"},{"start":6532.6,"end":6538.6,"text":"還有讓這個稅收轉化為我們政府可以補助產業跟勞工的這個能力才是關鍵"},{"start":6538.6,"end":6539.6,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":6539.6,"end":6540.6,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":6540.6,"end":6545.6,"text":"謝謝我們立法院的好朋友好同事"},{"start":6545.6,"end":6548.6,"text":"也是我們中山大學政治經濟學系的教授"},{"start":6548.6,"end":6551.6,"text":"建議了幾個重要的意見"},{"start":6551.6,"end":6556.6,"text":"那我們接下來登記發言的學者專家都已經發言完畢"},{"start":6556.6,"end":6557.6,"text":"我們等一下是需要"},{"start":6557.6,"end":6558.6,"text":"如果還有需要第二輪"},{"start":6558.6,"end":6561.6,"text":"我們再邀請大家參加第二輪"},{"start":6561.6,"end":6565.6,"text":"那接著我先請行政機關回應相關的意見"},{"start":6565.6,"end":6568.6,"text":"依序現在先請財政部來做回應"},{"start":6568.6,"end":6570.6,"text":"阮次長歡迎您謝謝"},{"start":6581.6,"end":6585.6,"text":"主席各位學者專家先進"},{"start":6585.6,"end":6586.6,"text":"大家早安"},{"start":6586.6,"end":6589.6,"text":"今天真的很感恩"},{"start":6589.6,"end":6593.6,"text":"聽到這麼多學者專家的寶貴的意見"},{"start":6593.6,"end":6595.6,"text":"真的受益良多"},{"start":6595.6,"end":6602.6,"text":"那首先我就先針對剛才賴委員所提到的問題"},{"start":6602.6,"end":6605.6,"text":"關於這個股市的問題"},{"start":6605.6,"end":6607.6,"text":"那國安基金的經濟財政部"},{"start":6607.6,"end":6610.6,"text":"大家知道都有一定的條件的限制"},{"start":6610.6,"end":6614.6,"text":"一定是要就是碰到重大事件"},{"start":6614.6,"end":6618.6,"text":"導致信心崩盤"},{"start":6618.6,"end":6621.6,"text":"那麼市長失去的狀況才會進場"},{"start":6621.6,"end":6626.6,"text":"那麼最近三場進場都是一些特殊的狀況"},{"start":6626.6,"end":6627.6,"text":"比如像COVID-19"},{"start":6627.6,"end":6630.6,"text":"或者是二戰爭的升息"},{"start":6630.6,"end":6633.6,"text":"或者是台美關稅等等這些"},{"start":6633.6,"end":6636.6,"text":"這個都是有特殊的狀況才會進場"},{"start":6636.6,"end":6638.6,"text":"那通常一般來講"},{"start":6638.6,"end":6641.6,"text":"我們對市場是不會進入干預的"},{"start":6641.6,"end":6642.6,"text":"不會進入干預的"},{"start":6642.6,"end":6645.6,"text":"也就是說它有漲有跌"},{"start":6645.6,"end":6648.6,"text":"最近當然受到國際局勢的影響"},{"start":6648.6,"end":6651.6,"text":"那再加上台灣的股市"},{"start":6651.6,"end":6654.6,"text":"跟國際的股市有高度的連動"},{"start":6654.6,"end":6657.6,"text":"所以最近因為國際股市不好"},{"start":6657.6,"end":6659.6,"text":"那麼市場的影響"},{"start":6659.6,"end":6662.6,"text":"不過這個是有漲有跌"},{"start":6662.6,"end":6665.6,"text":"這是正常的情況"},{"start":6665.6,"end":6668.6,"text":"那事實上今天大家都看了一下"},{"start":6668.6,"end":6671.6,"text":"今天股市又回不上漲了"},{"start":6671.6,"end":6674.6,"text":"昨天跌今天又漲"},{"start":6674.6,"end":6678.6,"text":"所以最近的狀況就是一個震盪的一個形態"},{"start":6678.6,"end":6682.6,"text":"那我想我們也有看到"},{"start":6682.6,"end":6685.6,"text":"我們在台美關稅的一個狀況"},{"start":6685.6,"end":6690.6,"text":"那我想我們國安基金的立場很簡單"},{"start":6690.6,"end":6693.6,"text":"我們密切關注國際的國內"},{"start":6693.6,"end":6696.6,"text":"跟國外的政經的情勢"},{"start":6696.6,"end":6698.6,"text":"我們密切的關注"},{"start":6698.6,"end":6700.6,"text":"如果有一些失序的狀況"},{"start":6700.6,"end":6703.6,"text":"我們會做事不來處理"},{"start":6703.6,"end":6705.6,"text":"那麼這一部分"},{"start":6705.6,"end":6707.6,"text":"那麼我做簡單的一個說明"},{"start":6707.6,"end":6710.6,"text":"那第二點剛才蔡教授也提到"},{"start":6710.6,"end":6714.6,"text":"就是針對小額退稅的這一部分"},{"start":6714.6,"end":6716.6,"text":"那麼是不是要取消"},{"start":6716.6,"end":6717.6,"text":"那麼大家都知道"},{"start":6717.6,"end":6720.6,"text":"最近美國也好歐盟也好"},{"start":6720.6,"end":6723.6,"text":"因為有一些小額退稅"},{"start":6723.6,"end":6725.6,"text":"那麼有一些後遺症"},{"start":6725.6,"end":6728.6,"text":"所以他們都已經取消"},{"start":6728.6,"end":6730.6,"text":"那我們要不要跟進"},{"start":6730.6,"end":6735.6,"text":"其實這個涉及到國際的事務"},{"start":6735.6,"end":6737.6,"text":"所以這一部分"},{"start":6737.6,"end":6739.6,"text":"因為這個是互惠的"},{"start":6739.6,"end":6740.6,"text":"這是互惠的"},{"start":6740.6,"end":6741.6,"text":"所以這一部分"},{"start":6741.6,"end":6746.6,"text":"我們要不要跟著美國或者歐盟來取消"},{"start":6746.6,"end":6751.6,"text":"我們這一部分會充分的審慎加以考量"},{"start":6751.6,"end":6754.6,"text":"特別是關注其他國家的一些做法"},{"start":6754.6,"end":6757.6,"text":"那麼我們會做妥適來處理"},{"start":6757.6,"end":6761.6,"text":"那麼剛才這個張教授"},{"start":6761.6,"end":6763.6,"text":"張其祿張教授來了"},{"start":6763.6,"end":6766.6,"text":"我想他講了很多"},{"start":6766.6,"end":6768.6,"text":"因為他是過去的財委會"},{"start":6768.6,"end":6771.6,"text":"所以他這方面特別的熟悉"},{"start":6771.6,"end":6773.6,"text":"我不是說熟悉"},{"start":6773.6,"end":6775.6,"text":"就是說他講的東西"},{"start":6775.6,"end":6778.6,"text":"都是跟財政部有密切的關聯"},{"start":6778.6,"end":6779.6,"text":"所以我在這邊"},{"start":6779.6,"end":6782.6,"text":"我做簡單的回應一下"},{"start":6782.6,"end":6786.6,"text":"事實上剛才張教授講的東西"},{"start":6786.6,"end":6788.6,"text":"其實都非常的關鍵"},{"start":6788.6,"end":6792.6,"text":"那事實上我們過去的產業政策"},{"start":6792.6,"end":6797.6,"text":"都是透過很多都是透過租稅的獎勵"},{"start":6797.6,"end":6801.6,"text":"透過獎勵來從這個創新的研發"},{"start":6801.6,"end":6803.6,"text":"或者是出現這個"},{"start":6803.6,"end":6807.6,"text":"智慧轉型或者是新創發展等等幾個面向"},{"start":6807.6,"end":6811.6,"text":"那麼來提供相關的租稅優惠措施"},{"start":6811.6,"end":6813.6,"text":"來協助產業升旗"},{"start":6813.6,"end":6816.6,"text":"那當然產創條例"},{"start":6816.6,"end":6819.6,"text":"雖然是說沒有產業別的限制"},{"start":6819.6,"end":6820.6,"text":"也沒有規模限制"},{"start":6820.6,"end":6823.6,"text":"但事實上大部分適用的對象"},{"start":6823.6,"end":6824.6,"text":"大家都知道"},{"start":6824.6,"end":6828.6,"text":"大部分也都是大企業在享受"},{"start":6828.6,"end":6831.6,"text":"所以我們最近也注意到這個問題"},{"start":6831.6,"end":6833.6,"text":"我們針對中小企業"},{"start":6833.6,"end":6836.6,"text":"除了中小企業發展條例之外"},{"start":6836.6,"end":6841.6,"text":"那麼我們最近也在配合相關的部會"},{"start":6841.6,"end":6843.6,"text":"在研擬一個中小微的"},{"start":6843.6,"end":6847.6,"text":"企業轉型升級的發展條例修正草案"},{"start":6847.6,"end":6850.6,"text":"針對中小企業的特殊性"},{"start":6850.6,"end":6853.6,"text":"那麼優化現行的租稅優惠"},{"start":6853.6,"end":6857.6,"text":"希望能夠把相關的租稅優惠"},{"start":6857.6,"end":6860.6,"text":"能夠切合中小企業的需求"},{"start":6860.6,"end":6861.6,"text":"不過我要強調"},{"start":6861.6,"end":6865.6,"text":"租稅只是一個輔助的措施"},{"start":6865.6,"end":6868.6,"text":"絕對不是一個促進產業升級的關鍵"},{"start":6868.6,"end":6871.6,"text":"我想這一點大家都能夠認同"},{"start":6871.6,"end":6872.6,"text":"這是一點"},{"start":6872.6,"end":6875.6,"text":"第二點我想這個促進產業的發展"},{"start":6875.6,"end":6877.6,"text":"除了租稅獎勵之外"},{"start":6877.6,"end":6881.6,"text":"我覺得金融的支援是非常重要的"},{"start":6881.6,"end":6884.6,"text":"比如說最近的台美關稅"},{"start":6884.6,"end":6889.6,"text":"台美關稅剛開始的時候我們被宣布"},{"start":6889.6,"end":6892.6,"text":"我們客製的關稅率達到32%"},{"start":6892.6,"end":6896.6,"text":"所以那時候政府還有民間都非常的緊張"},{"start":6896.6,"end":6901.6,"text":"所以那時候我們提供相關的支持措施"},{"start":6901.6,"end":6903.6,"text":"從114年8月7號開始"},{"start":6903.6,"end":6906.6,"text":"就提供這個附和條件的出口廠商"},{"start":6906.6,"end":6912.6,"text":"那麼就可以有一個融資利息減碼的措施"},{"start":6912.6,"end":6913.6,"text":"那麼到今年六月底"},{"start":6913.6,"end":6916.6,"text":"那麼已經協助了4000多家的廠商"},{"start":6916.6,"end":6919.6,"text":"減收利息達到將近40億"},{"start":6919.6,"end":6924.6,"text":"其中中小企業大概4萬4000家"},{"start":6924.6,"end":6930.6,"text":"減收利息也是相當高"},{"start":6930.6,"end":6932.6,"text":"那另外就是"},{"start":6932.6,"end":6936.6,"text":"就是為了因應中小企業的需求"},{"start":6936.6,"end":6941.6,"text":"因為中小企業占我們國內比例非常高"},{"start":6941.6,"end":6942.6,"text":"非常高"},{"start":6942.6,"end":6947.6,"text":"那為了協助中小企業取得營運跟發展資金的需要"},{"start":6947.6,"end":6949.6,"text":"那麼宮古行庫配合相關的部會"},{"start":6949.6,"end":6951.6,"text":"像國發會經濟部"},{"start":6951.6,"end":6954.6,"text":"那麼我們就推辦很多政策性的貸款"},{"start":6954.6,"end":6958.6,"text":"那麼依照企業的需求提供"},{"start":6958.6,"end":6959.6,"text":"像比如像周轉金"},{"start":6959.6,"end":6961.6,"text":"剛才張教授也提到"},{"start":6961.6,"end":6964.6,"text":"周轉金還有資本性的支出"},{"start":6964.6,"end":6967.6,"text":"還有營運資金的相關融資的協助"},{"start":6967.6,"end":6969.6,"text":"到今年六月底"},{"start":6969.6,"end":6975.6,"text":"那麼宮古行庫對中小企業放款的戶數達到28萬多戶"},{"start":6975.6,"end":6979.6,"text":"放款餘額達到6.08兆"},{"start":6979.6,"end":6984.6,"text":"那麼比去年增加了4.8%"},{"start":6985.6,"end":6989.6,"text":"那第三個我要跟各位報告"},{"start":6989.6,"end":6994.6,"text":"除了剛才政策性的這些金融協助之外"},{"start":6994.6,"end":6995.6,"text":"我們宮古行庫"},{"start":6995.6,"end":6997.6,"text":"我們也督導宮古行庫"},{"start":6997.6,"end":7002.6,"text":"按照用他自己的資金"},{"start":7002.6,"end":7009.6,"text":"那麼就推出一個中小及微型企業振興的融資方案"},{"start":7009.6,"end":7011.6,"text":"那麼額度是3兆"},{"start":7011.6,"end":7015.6,"text":"到目前已經帶走了2兆"},{"start":7015.6,"end":7021.6,"text":"那麼可見民間的企業對資金的需求非常的殷切"},{"start":7021.6,"end":7028.6,"text":"所以這一部分我們預定是在明年的社會底會屆滿"},{"start":7028.6,"end":7032.6,"text":"但是現在已經核帶了2.2兆"},{"start":7032.6,"end":7034.6,"text":"那總額才3兆"},{"start":7034.6,"end":7035.6,"text":"所以我們在考慮"},{"start":7035.6,"end":7039.6,"text":"在想就是說如果真的是企業界有需求的話"},{"start":7039.6,"end":7042.6,"text":"我們到時候再跟宮古行庫來協商"},{"start":7042.6,"end":7047.6,"text":"看是不是來提高相關的這個貸款的額度"},{"start":7047.6,"end":7052.6,"text":"來滿足企業他的經營的需求"},{"start":7052.6,"end":7055.6,"text":"那另外有一點就是剛才講到說"},{"start":7055.6,"end":7058.6,"text":"那我們企業發展"},{"start":7058.6,"end":7059.6,"text":"K型化發展"},{"start":7059.6,"end":7060.6,"text":"有些發展很好"},{"start":7060.6,"end":7062.6,"text":"那有些發展的不好"},{"start":7062.6,"end":7064.6,"text":"那剛才講說"},{"start":7064.6,"end":7070.6,"text":"那些發展好的能不能回饋到我們一些弱勢的團體"},{"start":7070.6,"end":7073.6,"text":"那這一部分我也跟各位報告一點"},{"start":7073.6,"end":7079.6,"text":"就是說我們財政部會持續推動各項的稅制改革"},{"start":7079.6,"end":7084.6,"text":"讓高資產跟高所得者負擔合理的稅賦"},{"start":7084.6,"end":7090.6,"text":"比如說我們會精進房地合一所得稅的稅制"},{"start":7090.6,"end":7093.6,"text":"那麼最高的稅率達到45%"},{"start":7093.6,"end":7096.6,"text":"而且將房地合一稅的稅收"},{"start":7096.6,"end":7099.6,"text":"就作為長照的支出"},{"start":7099.6,"end":7103.6,"text":"或者是住宅政治的支出來改善所得分配"},{"start":7103.6,"end":7105.6,"text":"那麼十四以來"},{"start":7105.6,"end":7112.6,"text":"房地合一所得稅的依住長照支出達到3200多億"},{"start":7112.6,"end":7116.6,"text":"那麼另外從113年1月到115年6月起"},{"start":7116.6,"end":7121.6,"text":"依住住宅支出達到超過300億元"},{"start":7121.6,"end":7124.6,"text":"另外我覺得很重要一點就是說"},{"start":7124.6,"end":7129.6,"text":"我們除了希望我們的產業越來越大越來越強之外"},{"start":7129.6,"end":7132.6,"text":"我們希望就是我們拿到的稅收"},{"start":7132.6,"end":7137.6,"text":"那麼我們可以回饋到一般的弱勢團體"},{"start":7137.6,"end":7139.6,"text":"所以我們在稅制上"},{"start":7139.6,"end":7142.6,"text":"我們就在減輕受僱的勞工"},{"start":7142.6,"end":7145.6,"text":"育兒還有高齡、身障"},{"start":7145.6,"end":7148.6,"text":"或者是租屋家庭的租稅負擔"},{"start":7148.6,"end":7152.6,"text":"比如說像最近我們就是優化所得稅制"},{"start":7152.6,"end":7156.6,"text":"那麼對於基本的生活所需要的費用不予課稅"},{"start":7156.6,"end":7162.6,"text":"另外我們也提高標準扣除額等四項的扣除額"},{"start":7162.6,"end":7170.6,"text":"另外我們也擴大並提高幼兒學前的特別扣除額"},{"start":7170.6,"end":7175.6,"text":"並將房屋的租資改為特別扣除額"},{"start":7175.6,"end":7177.6,"text":"並調高扣除額度"},{"start":7177.6,"end":7180.6,"text":"也就達到18萬元"},{"start":7180.6,"end":7184.6,"text":"那麼另外也調高長照的扣除額度"},{"start":7184.6,"end":7187.6,"text":"達到18萬元"},{"start":7187.6,"end":7191.6,"text":"另外當然我們還有配合物價調整相關的稅率"},{"start":7191.6,"end":7195.6,"text":"免稅額等等相關還有相關稅率集計的問題"},{"start":7195.6,"end":7198.6,"text":"那我跟各位報告一點"},{"start":7198.6,"end":7200.6,"text":"根據我們的統計"},{"start":7200.6,"end":7205.6,"text":"113年度全國申報戶列報總扣除額"},{"start":7205.6,"end":7207.6,"text":"扣除額我現在講扣除額"},{"start":7207.6,"end":7211.6,"text":"佔全國的綜合所得總額比例"},{"start":7211.6,"end":7212.6,"text":"達到多少?"},{"start":7212.6,"end":7213.6,"text":"59%"},{"start":7213.6,"end":7216.6,"text":"也就是41%會課稅"},{"start":7216.6,"end":7219.6,"text":"59%都課不到稅"},{"start":7219.6,"end":7223.6,"text":"如果用加護納稅的情形來分析的話"},{"start":7223.6,"end":7227.6,"text":"有317萬戶"},{"start":7227.6,"end":7231.6,"text":"也就是佔總申報數的45%"},{"start":7231.6,"end":7233.6,"text":"那是不需要繳稅的"},{"start":7233.6,"end":7235.6,"text":"稅率是零的"},{"start":7235.6,"end":7237.6,"text":"那麼247萬戶"},{"start":7237.6,"end":7239.6,"text":"佔比是35%"},{"start":7239.6,"end":7242.6,"text":"那麼他的稅率是5%"},{"start":7242.6,"end":7244.6,"text":"所以把這兩個加起來的話"},{"start":7244.6,"end":7247.6,"text":"那麼使用零稅率跟5%加起來"},{"start":7247.6,"end":7249.6,"text":"那麼就是八成"},{"start":7249.6,"end":7250.6,"text":"就是80%"},{"start":7250.6,"end":7253.6,"text":"那麼它是可以講說是"},{"start":7253.6,"end":7254.6,"text":"這一部分來講"},{"start":7254.6,"end":7262.6,"text":"也是實現政府照顧相對的弱勢的"},{"start":7262.6,"end":7264.6,"text":"包括這個薪資所得者"},{"start":7264.6,"end":7267.6,"text":"跟中低所得者的家庭的目的"},{"start":7267.6,"end":7269.6,"text":"那另外相對來講"},{"start":7269.6,"end":7270.6,"text":"同一個年度"},{"start":7270.6,"end":7272.6,"text":"那麼綜合所得稅結論申報"},{"start":7272.6,"end":7276.6,"text":"那麼是用最高稅率的40%的高所得者"},{"start":7276.6,"end":7278.6,"text":"那麼佔總申報數"},{"start":7278.6,"end":7282.6,"text":"總申報數的比重才1%"},{"start":7282.6,"end":7284.6,"text":"可是他負擔的稅是多少?"},{"start":7284.6,"end":7287.6,"text":"他繳納的稅是佔比將近50%"},{"start":7287.6,"end":7289.6,"text":"也就是1%的人"},{"start":7289.6,"end":7293.6,"text":"他繳的稅佔將近50%"},{"start":7293.6,"end":7297.6,"text":"所以我們就是希望能夠透過量能課稅"},{"start":7297.6,"end":7300.6,"text":"來促進租稅的公平"},{"start":7300.6,"end":7303.6,"text":"讓我們的一些稅收能夠"},{"start":7303.6,"end":7305.6,"text":"除了增加我們稅收之外"},{"start":7305.6,"end":7307.6,"text":"我們希望用這樣的稅收"},{"start":7307.6,"end":7309.6,"text":"來協助那些弱勢團體"},{"start":7309.6,"end":7310.6,"text":"那最後一點"},{"start":7310.6,"end":7312.6,"text":"我補充一點就是"},{"start":7312.6,"end":7315.6,"text":"我覺得我們透過租稅手段"},{"start":7315.6,"end":7319.6,"text":"但是很多人沒辦法適用租稅的優惠"},{"start":7319.6,"end":7321.6,"text":"沒辦法適用租稅優惠"},{"start":7321.6,"end":7323.6,"text":"因為他就是零啊"},{"start":7323.6,"end":7324.6,"text":"他適用就是零"},{"start":7324.6,"end":7326.6,"text":"所以我們要做什麼事情?"},{"start":7326.6,"end":7329.6,"text":"移轉支出是很重要的一件事情"},{"start":7329.6,"end":7333.6,"text":"那麼考量到部分的民眾"},{"start":7333.6,"end":7337.6,"text":"沒辦法透過租金減免來協助"},{"start":7337.6,"end":7338.6,"text":"所以剛才我講說"},{"start":7338.6,"end":7343.6,"text":"一定要透過這個移轉支出"},{"start":7345.6,"end":7346.6,"text":"我跟各位報告"},{"start":7346.6,"end":7349.6,"text":"我們現在的總預算"},{"start":7349.6,"end":7351.6,"text":"我們總預算裡面"},{"start":7351.6,"end":7354.6,"text":"那麼這個社福支出的佔比"},{"start":7354.6,"end":7359.6,"text":"一項都到26.5%到27.5%之間"},{"start":7359.6,"end":7362.6,"text":"是我們現在所有的政務支出當中"},{"start":7362.6,"end":7363.6,"text":"比重是最高的"},{"start":7363.6,"end":7365.6,"text":"那麼這用在哪裡呢?"},{"start":7365.6,"end":7366.6,"text":"用在社會的給付"},{"start":7366.6,"end":7368.6,"text":"用在社會保險、社會救助"},{"start":7368.6,"end":7371.6,"text":"還有相關的社會福利等等"},{"start":7371.6,"end":7374.6,"text":"來協助真正需要協助的人"},{"start":7374.6,"end":7376.6,"text":"那另外我們也提供"},{"start":7376.6,"end":7378.6,"text":"比如像最近有很多人"},{"start":7378.6,"end":7380.6,"text":"有些有房子、有些沒有房子"},{"start":7380.6,"end":7381.6,"text":"那對沒有房子的人"},{"start":7381.6,"end":7385.6,"text":"我們提供相關的房租的補貼"},{"start":7385.6,"end":7386.6,"text":"那對想要購房的"},{"start":7386.6,"end":7390.6,"text":"我們提供清安的利息的補貼"},{"start":7390.6,"end":7392.6,"text":"剛才莊教授有提到說"},{"start":7392.6,"end":7394.6,"text":"好像這個好像不是很完整"},{"start":7394.6,"end":7397.6,"text":"不過這一部分我們會逐步來檢討"},{"start":7397.6,"end":7399.6,"text":"另外興建設宅"},{"start":7399.6,"end":7400.6,"text":"我覺得這個很重要"},{"start":7400.6,"end":7402.6,"text":"大家知道歐洲很多國家"},{"start":7402.6,"end":7405.6,"text":"它自有住宅的比例都很低的"},{"start":7405.6,"end":7407.6,"text":"它大部分都是用租的"},{"start":7407.6,"end":7409.6,"text":"大家都很清楚"},{"start":7409.6,"end":7411.6,"text":"所以我們就是要透過社會住宅"},{"start":7411.6,"end":7415.6,"text":"將來看能不能就是以租代買"},{"start":7415.6,"end":7418.6,"text":"讓這個居住正義能夠落實"},{"start":7418.6,"end":7420.6,"text":"那另外最近大家都從"},{"start":7420.6,"end":7422.6,"text":"在媒體上可以看到"},{"start":7422.6,"end":7423.6,"text":"我們政府也在推動"},{"start":7423.6,"end":7426.6,"text":"台灣人口的對策的新戰略"},{"start":7426.6,"end":7428.6,"text":"家庭支持篇"},{"start":7428.6,"end":7434.6,"text":"那麼透過從生育、養育"},{"start":7434.6,"end":7438.6,"text":"還有教育三大階段提出18項措施"},{"start":7438.6,"end":7440.6,"text":"那這個我就不用講太多"},{"start":7440.6,"end":7442.6,"text":"因為最近才有最新的報導"},{"start":7442.6,"end":7443.6,"text":"所以我不用講太多"},{"start":7443.6,"end":7446.6,"text":"我特別強調一點成長帳戶"},{"start":7446.6,"end":7449.6,"text":"那這一部分就是"},{"start":7449.6,"end":7451.6,"text":"適用對象是0到18歲"},{"start":7451.6,"end":7453.6,"text":"最少可以領到多少"},{"start":7453.6,"end":7456.6,"text":"我們算起來最少是0到108萬"},{"start":7456.6,"end":7458.6,"text":"這108萬也是本金"},{"start":7458.6,"end":7460.6,"text":"如果是有操作收益的話"},{"start":7460.6,"end":7462.6,"text":"那就更多"},{"start":7462.6,"end":7465.6,"text":"所以這一部分我們就是"},{"start":7465.6,"end":7469.6,"text":"希望就是說我們把多的稅收"},{"start":7469.6,"end":7471.6,"text":"我們不是用來普發"},{"start":7471.6,"end":7475.6,"text":"而是用在真正需要幫助的人身上"},{"start":7475.6,"end":7477.6,"text":"這個很重要"},{"start":7477.6,"end":7480.6,"text":"那最後一點我要特別報告"},{"start":7480.6,"end":7482.6,"text":"就是K型化的經濟"},{"start":7482.6,"end":7484.6,"text":"不是台灣這樣"},{"start":7484.6,"end":7488.6,"text":"這個是各國共同面臨的一個挑戰"},{"start":7488.6,"end":7491.6,"text":"所以我們必須要密切關注"},{"start":7491.6,"end":7494.6,"text":"其他國家的一些具體做法"},{"start":7494.6,"end":7496.6,"text":"在適合我們的國情"},{"start":7496.6,"end":7499.6,"text":"還有財政可以負擔的範圍內"},{"start":7499.6,"end":7502.6,"text":"那麼積極提供各項的具體政策"},{"start":7502.6,"end":7505.6,"text":"來建構更公平合理的社會"},{"start":7505.6,"end":7507.6,"text":"我們希望我們的稅收"},{"start":7507.6,"end":7509.6,"text":"不僅可以來支應"},{"start":7509.6,"end":7511.6,"text":"我們一般的政務支出"},{"start":7511.6,"end":7513.6,"text":"更希望能夠把這些稅收"},{"start":7513.6,"end":7518.6,"text":"能夠來協助那些真正需要幫助的弱勢團體"},{"start":7518.6,"end":7519.6,"text":"讓我們建構一個"},{"start":7519.6,"end":7521.6,"text":"就是一方面有個成長"},{"start":7521.6,"end":7525.6,"text":"又可以平衡的一個這樣的一個社會"},{"start":7525.6,"end":7527.6,"text":"以上做報告謝謝"},{"start":7527.6,"end":7532.6,"text":"好謝謝阮正士剛的回應跟說明"},{"start":7532.6,"end":7535.6,"text":"除了現在立法院也好行政院也好"},{"start":7535.6,"end":7537.6,"text":"提出來相關的在教文"},{"start":7537.6,"end":7540.6,"text":"在社福上的一些很多的議題"},{"start":7540.6,"end":7545.6,"text":"希望照顧更多的國人之外"},{"start":7545.6,"end":7549.6,"text":"我們更期待的是財政部也藉今天公聽會"},{"start":7549.6,"end":7553.6,"text":"聽到各個專家學者教授還有產業面"},{"start":7553.6,"end":7557.6,"text":"面臨的問題政策上應該有更多不同的工具"},{"start":7557.6,"end":7559.6,"text":"來解決了解"},{"start":7559.6,"end":7562.6,"text":"除了剛剛我們提的教育社福"},{"start":7562.6,"end":7564.6,"text":"做更多的公共建設之外"},{"start":7564.6,"end":7567.6,"text":"現在台灣的主要的產業面"},{"start":7567.6,"end":7569.6,"text":"各個產業面無論是傳產"},{"start":7569.6,"end":7572.6,"text":"還是過去再生醫療等等"},{"start":7572.6,"end":7574.6,"text":"我覺得政府在現階段應該要思考"},{"start":7574.6,"end":7578.6,"text":"用更多跨部會的工具來解決協助他們"},{"start":7578.6,"end":7581.6,"text":"這個是我希望後續今天我們有回應到"},{"start":7581.6,"end":7584.6,"text":"希望財政部相關部會來一併提出"},{"start":7584.6,"end":7586.6,"text":"更多的好的政策來解決相關的問題"},{"start":7586.6,"end":7591.6,"text":"好第二位我邀請我們金管會的副主委"},{"start":7591.6,"end":7593.6,"text":"陳副主委謝謝"},{"start":7597.6,"end":7602.6,"text":"主席、各位委員以及各位先進"},{"start":7602.6,"end":7607.6,"text":"今天我們財政委員會召開面對K型經濟問題"},{"start":7607.6,"end":7612.6,"text":"行政部門如何引導經濟成果均衡發展"},{"start":7612.6,"end":7615.6,"text":"分配於全體勞工在這個地方"},{"start":7615.6,"end":7619.6,"text":"對於這個K型經濟的風險或這一些"},{"start":7619.6,"end":7621.6,"text":"以及如何將成果的引導"},{"start":7621.6,"end":7623.6,"text":"其實金管會在這方面"},{"start":7623.6,"end":7626.6,"text":"當然第一個是所謂的資本市場部分"},{"start":7626.6,"end":7629.6,"text":"第二個是一個金融服務的部分"},{"start":7629.6,"end":7632.6,"text":"當然我也先針對賴委員"},{"start":7632.6,"end":7637.6,"text":"賴時保賴委員剛才提到一個浦域指數的部分"},{"start":7637.6,"end":7641.6,"text":"我們能理解其實現在的確"},{"start":7641.6,"end":7644.6,"text":"是有一個兩極化的走法"},{"start":7644.6,"end":7647.6,"text":"可以說是一個兩極化的走法"},{"start":7647.6,"end":7652.6,"text":"其實現在的確是有一個兩極化的走法"},{"start":7652.6,"end":7654.6,"text":"K型經濟兩極化的走法"},{"start":7654.6,"end":7657.6,"text":"而浦域系列不是為了浦域而浦域"},{"start":7657.6,"end":7665.6,"text":"而是其實真正的一個思考點是一個提升能見度"},{"start":7665.6,"end":7671.6,"text":"提升能見度讓這一些其實是優秀而好的中小企業"},{"start":7671.6,"end":7676.6,"text":"它也能讓我們的投資市場資本市場看得見"},{"start":7676.6,"end":7679.6,"text":"所以是說在這個地方我們透過法人說明會"},{"start":7679.6,"end":7683.6,"text":"產業論壇或企業價值提升計畫"},{"start":7683.6,"end":7686.6,"text":"在這些再搭配上一個所謂的浦域指數"},{"start":7686.6,"end":7689.6,"text":"而浦域指數在這個地方其實我們常常講"},{"start":7689.6,"end":7691.6,"text":"一開始一定是技術先行"},{"start":7691.6,"end":7693.6,"text":"在商業模式"},{"start":7693.6,"end":7698.6,"text":"我們不單單會針對一個所謂的好的中小企業這個部分"},{"start":7698.6,"end":7701.6,"text":"其實比如說高價值、高動能成長"},{"start":7701.6,"end":7704.6,"text":"我們會一個系列式的一個退出"},{"start":7704.6,"end":7709.6,"text":"我想再加上將來的也有可能會在商業模式進來"},{"start":7709.6,"end":7712.6,"text":"變成一個ETF的指數或是商品"},{"start":7712.6,"end":7719.6,"text":"我想這慢慢的就會提升了我們的一個制度性的解決"},{"start":7719.6,"end":7724.6,"text":"我們在資本市場不是從大家比較少看到的那個部分"},{"start":7724.6,"end":7727.6,"text":"或現在沒有專注到這個部分"},{"start":7727.6,"end":7732.6,"text":"而對於我們的資本市場促進產業發展成果共享"},{"start":7732.6,"end":7734.6,"text":"其實大概也就是說"},{"start":7734.6,"end":7739.6,"text":"由獲利來帶動員工薪酬的一個同步提升"},{"start":7739.6,"end":7742.6,"text":"也就是說我們看一下這個數據上面"},{"start":7742.6,"end":7746.6,"text":"在114年度的上市櫃公司"},{"start":7746.6,"end":7750.6,"text":"它的薪資平常成長比例是6.79"},{"start":7750.6,"end":7754.6,"text":"上市以及上櫃的是3.66"},{"start":7755.6,"end":7759.6,"text":"所以我們大概可以看到一個所謂的企業獲利"},{"start":7759.6,"end":7766.6,"text":"跟員工薪酬呈現一個同步成長的一個趨勢"},{"start":7766.6,"end":7773.6,"text":"再來其實成果如何化成讓員工能享受到"},{"start":7773.6,"end":7776.6,"text":"這我一直強調是制度性"},{"start":7776.6,"end":7781.6,"text":"所以是說其實在我們的113年8月7號的"},{"start":7781.6,"end":7785.6,"text":"我們的證券交易法是4條的一個修訂"},{"start":7785.6,"end":7791.6,"text":"這是要求上市櫃公司要在章程明定年度盈餘提撥一定比例"},{"start":7791.6,"end":7795.6,"text":"給予基層員工調整薪資或分派盈餘"},{"start":7795.6,"end":7801.6,"text":"其實也包括了公司法235條之一的一個加薪的"},{"start":7801.6,"end":7803.6,"text":"以及其實除了這個以外"},{"start":7803.6,"end":7806.6,"text":"分紅入骨的一個部分的話"},{"start":7806.6,"end":7810.6,"text":"其實我們在所謂公司法167條之一267以下"},{"start":7810.6,"end":7813.6,"text":"其實都有一個相關的一些規定"},{"start":7813.6,"end":7818.6,"text":"這也是透過一個制度性的一個解決"},{"start":7818.6,"end":7821.6,"text":"讓企業獲利成長"},{"start":7821.6,"end":7825.6,"text":"搭配著員工以及我們的特別是基層部分"},{"start":7825.6,"end":7831.6,"text":"也要拿到一定的我們的經濟成長的一個成果"},{"start":7831.6,"end":7835.6,"text":"而在於我們金管會部分我們對於IPO就是說"},{"start":7835.6,"end":7840.6,"text":"要進入我們的上市上櫃的刺激市場裡面"},{"start":7840.6,"end":7845.6,"text":"基層員工也要納入IPO的一個審查"},{"start":7845.6,"end":7849.6,"text":"也就是說我們在上市上櫃審查準則當中"},{"start":7849.6,"end":7853.6,"text":"也要求這些公司必須揭露員工的範圍"},{"start":7853.6,"end":7858.6,"text":"以及最近一年度基層員工平均經常性薪資"},{"start":7858.6,"end":7861.6,"text":"要達到基本工資的1.3倍"},{"start":7861.6,"end":7863.6,"text":"而在今年我們也這樣"},{"start":7863.6,"end":7867.6,"text":"剛才是全體基層我們現在對於新進的"},{"start":7867.6,"end":7871.6,"text":"就是最正常我們的新進的基層員工"},{"start":7871.6,"end":7875.6,"text":"新人這個地方他的薪資也要納入審查"},{"start":7875.6,"end":7881.6,"text":"透過我們的資訊揭露跟申請上市櫃的一個機制"},{"start":7881.6,"end":7885.6,"text":"引導企業建立合理的一個機制"},{"start":7885.6,"end":7887.6,"text":"而在透明度的一個部分"},{"start":7887.6,"end":7893.6,"text":"我們也要求揭露所謂的薪資中位數的一個部分"},{"start":7893.6,"end":7896.6,"text":"而對於異常低薪的一個公司"},{"start":7896.6,"end":7899.6,"text":"例如員工薪資未滿50萬"},{"start":7899.6,"end":7901.6,"text":"或是每股盈餘它是成長"},{"start":7901.6,"end":7906.6,"text":"但是員工薪資標準平均數卻怎樣"},{"start":7906.6,"end":7909.6,"text":"沒有達到一定的成長的時候"},{"start":7909.6,"end":7913.6,"text":"其實我們都要它申報所謂的經營績效"},{"start":7913.6,"end":7916.6,"text":"跟員工薪酬的一個關聯性"},{"start":7916.6,"end":7919.6,"text":"而在ESG的相關的一個評鑑當中"},{"start":7919.6,"end":7921.6,"text":"我們也納入了它的一個指數"},{"start":7921.6,"end":7926.6,"text":"在我們的台灣高薪指數以及薪酬指數這些也都有"},{"start":7926.6,"end":7931.6,"text":"讓資金引導我們讓社會看到這些是好的企業"},{"start":7931.6,"end":7939.6,"text":"我們要引導資金流向重視員工薪酬跟永續經營的一個企業"},{"start":7939.6,"end":7942.6,"text":"資本市場部分其實剛剛也有提到"},{"start":7942.6,"end":7945.6,"text":"其實我們也做到一個多層次的一個市場"},{"start":7945.6,"end":7950.6,"text":"剛剛劉所長劉修夢所長其實也有提到我們創櫃板"},{"start":7950.6,"end":7953.6,"text":"我們創櫃板在日本也是其實它沒有"},{"start":7953.6,"end":7957.6,"text":"完全沒有一個所謂的最低資本額的一個限制"},{"start":7957.6,"end":7961.6,"text":"我們的思考點也是一個所謂的加速器的一個概念"},{"start":7961.6,"end":7965.6,"text":"加速器的一個概念或者是一個育成"},{"start":7965.6,"end":7969.6,"text":"讓我們去免費提供個會計內控制度"},{"start":7969.6,"end":7971.6,"text":"跟資訊揭露跟法證"},{"start":7971.6,"end":7975.6,"text":"而且在金融服務方面金融服務方面"},{"start":7975.6,"end":7982.6,"text":"我們金管會也持續推動本國銀行加強辦理中小企業放款的一個方案"},{"start":7982.6,"end":7986.6,"text":"營造有利中小企業融資的一個環境"},{"start":7986.6,"end":7991.6,"text":"我們也會在總經理會議上表達表揚中小企業放款"},{"start":7991.6,"end":7994.6,"text":"績效優良的一個銀行"},{"start":7994.6,"end":7997.6,"text":"而保險業部分我們也會提供的投資跟放款"},{"start":7997.6,"end":8002.6,"text":"投資跟放款以協助我們的產業升級跟淨零轉型"},{"start":8002.6,"end":8007.6,"text":"也就是說我們大概資本市場金融服務雙軌並進"},{"start":8007.6,"end":8008.6,"text":"大概有四個"},{"start":8008.6,"end":8011.6,"text":"第一個是所謂的精準的金融支持"},{"start":8011.6,"end":8015.6,"text":"第二個協助非AI產業這些中小企業"},{"start":8015.6,"end":8017.6,"text":"能沒看到它價值升級"},{"start":8017.6,"end":8021.6,"text":"而不是一個所謂的成長成本的一個競爭"},{"start":8021.6,"end":8026.6,"text":"而三是一個強化資本市場分配成果的一個誘因"},{"start":8026.6,"end":8031.6,"text":"以及擴大金融包容以及資產形成的一個機會"},{"start":8031.6,"end":8036.6,"text":"這也是我們金管會一直持續努力的目標以上"},{"start":8038.6,"end":8042.6,"text":"好謝謝感謝我們陳昱良金管會的副主委"},{"start":8042.6,"end":8047.6,"text":"接下來我邀請第三位我們央行的副總裁"},{"start":8047.6,"end":8050.6,"text":"嚴副總裁來做回應謝謝"},{"start":8056.6,"end":8062.6,"text":"主席各位學者專家我們央行有三點回應意見"},{"start":8062.6,"end":8071.6,"text":"第一點就剛才蔡教授和張教授對於央行房地產政策的一些說明"},{"start":8071.6,"end":8075.6,"text":"那我們每一季在開理事會之前"},{"start":8075.6,"end":8081.6,"text":"我們內部都會對於房地產政策的一些說明"},{"start":8081.6,"end":8084.6,"text":"我們每一季在開理事會之前"},{"start":8084.6,"end":8090.6,"text":"我們內部都會對於單權房地產的措施政策做一個檢視"},{"start":8090.6,"end":8094.6,"text":"所以我想我們會聽到大家剛才提的意見"},{"start":8094.6,"end":8096.6,"text":"我們在每一次理事會之前"},{"start":8096.6,"end":8101.6,"text":"我們都會去檢視我們的政策是不是有需要修正的部分"},{"start":8101.6,"end":8106.6,"text":"第二點是關於這個今天的公聽會的討論提侃的第三點"},{"start":8106.6,"end":8111.6,"text":"有關於行政部門對產業的資金支持部分"},{"start":8111.6,"end":8114.6,"text":"我想我們簡單的說明就是說"},{"start":8114.6,"end":8119.6,"text":"央行將持續因應國內外經濟金融情勢的發展"},{"start":8119.6,"end":8121.6,"text":"實施公開市場操作"},{"start":8121.6,"end":8128.6,"text":"以維持銀行流動體系流動性與市場利率於一個適當的水準"},{"start":8128.6,"end":8133.6,"text":"這個有助於搭配政府產業政策的發展策略"},{"start":8133.6,"end":8137.6,"text":"第三點我們想說明的是在討論提侃第四點"},{"start":8137.6,"end":8143.6,"text":"有關於行政部門降低物價壓力的部分"},{"start":8143.6,"end":8149.6,"text":"其實長期以來我們都利用妥適的貨幣政策"},{"start":8149.6,"end":8154.6,"text":"然後根據當時候的國內外經濟金融情勢"},{"start":8154.6,"end":8162.6,"text":"我們的基本的政策是以維持物價穩定來降低民眾物價散漲的壓力"},{"start":8162.6,"end":8169.6,"text":"我想這也是我們央行法所規定的一個職責所在"},{"start":8169.6,"end":8172.6,"text":"以上簡單的說明提供大家參考謝謝"},{"start":8174.6,"end":8178.6,"text":"好非常感謝我們嚴副總裁的回應"},{"start":8178.6,"end":8183.6,"text":"也希望嚴副總裁針對於剛才包含傳產業、房地產業"},{"start":8183.6,"end":8186.6,"text":"提出來相關的議題跟意見"},{"start":8186.6,"end":8187.6,"text":"帶回去做一些參考"},{"start":8187.6,"end":8194.6,"text":"好接下來邀請我們國發會我們的副處長陳副處長做回應謝謝"},{"start":8206.6,"end":8209.6,"text":"張偉各位專家學者各級官代表"},{"start":8209.6,"end":8210.6,"text":"祝各位先進"},{"start":8211.6,"end":8217.6,"text":"國發會非常高興能夠聽到今天現場各位專家委員"},{"start":8217.6,"end":8220.6,"text":"學者給我們的政府的一些建議"},{"start":8220.6,"end":8226.6,"text":"國發會就剛才所提到的相關的內容與提議"},{"start":8226.6,"end":8230.6,"text":"我們就政府整體的政策規劃的思維跟做法"},{"start":8230.6,"end":8233.6,"text":"提出以下的說明"},{"start":8233.6,"end":8236.6,"text":"首先根據剛才大家的討論"},{"start":8236.6,"end":8243.6,"text":"我們對於全球供應鏈的重組帶動包括台商回台的擴增國內的產能"},{"start":8243.6,"end":8246.6,"text":"以及AI的商機的蓬勃發展"},{"start":8246.6,"end":8251.6,"text":"還有台灣在高科技的全球供應鏈方面的關鍵地位"},{"start":8251.6,"end":8256.6,"text":"造成了我們台灣最近的經濟高速的成長"},{"start":8256.6,"end":8258.6,"text":"我想這是大家都有共識的"},{"start":8258.6,"end":8263.6,"text":"在產業別部分除了AI的創新發展以外"},{"start":8263.6,"end":8268.6,"text":"其實我們也看到多數的傳統的製造業"},{"start":8268.6,"end":8271.6,"text":"有在做一些高質化的轉型"},{"start":8271.6,"end":8273.6,"text":"剛才有提到一些產業"},{"start":8273.6,"end":8280.6,"text":"我們看到包括像塑膠、紡織、電力設備、配備以及機械設備等等"},{"start":8280.6,"end":8285.6,"text":"113米的附加價值率這些都是有提升的"},{"start":8285.6,"end":8288.6,"text":"傳統產業部分的景氣改善"},{"start":8288.6,"end":8290.6,"text":"整體看來我們可以看到"},{"start":8290.6,"end":8296.6,"text":"包括半導體供應鏈的上游、中游等等這些的廠商"},{"start":8296.6,"end":8300.6,"text":"供應鏈的需求成長也有出口回升的一些態勢"},{"start":8300.6,"end":8305.6,"text":"整體看來其實台灣的最近幾年的景氣"},{"start":8305.6,"end":8308.6,"text":"可以說是尤其是今年是特別的熱"},{"start":8308.6,"end":8312.6,"text":"政府在促進均衡發展的作為方面"},{"start":8312.6,"end":8315.6,"text":"其實我們並不是只有考慮到AI"},{"start":8315.6,"end":8320.6,"text":"我們是想要把AI的紅利能夠擴散出來"},{"start":8320.6,"end":8324.6,"text":"我們有三個方向來努力"},{"start":8324.6,"end":8327.6,"text":"第一個是產業的創新發展部分"},{"start":8327.6,"end":8332.6,"text":"第二個是政府怎麼樣鼓勵從AI部分以後"},{"start":8332.6,"end":8334.6,"text":"企業能夠加薪"},{"start":8334.6,"end":8336.6,"text":"剛才幾位學者也都有提到"},{"start":8336.6,"end":8340.6,"text":"第三個是國人的負擔要怎麼樣去減輕"},{"start":8340.6,"end":8344.6,"text":"首先在第一個就是產業的創新發展部分"},{"start":8344.6,"end":8350.6,"text":"我們知道AI的負能已經是現在的未來的發展趨勢"},{"start":8350.6,"end":8354.6,"text":"AI負能一定要擴散到百工百業去"},{"start":8354.6,"end":8357.6,"text":"讓AI能夠走進各行各業"},{"start":8357.6,"end":8360.6,"text":"所以我們是有提出一個AI新時代建設"},{"start":8360.6,"end":8362.6,"text":"我想各位都非常的清楚"},{"start":8362.6,"end":8366.6,"text":"這個新時代建設政策是透過智慧應用"},{"start":8366.6,"end":8368.6,"text":"跟關鍵技術以及數位基盤"},{"start":8368.6,"end":8372.6,"text":"我們希望比如說在智慧應用部分"},{"start":8372.6,"end":8376.6,"text":"可以協助製造業、服務業、中小企業、農漁業等等"},{"start":8376.6,"end":8379.6,"text":"百工百業都能夠導入AI的智慧應用"},{"start":8379.6,"end":8383.6,"text":"來提高企業的營運效率"},{"start":8383.6,"end":8388.6,"text":"或者他們獲利以及他們有一些新的商業發展模式"},{"start":8388.6,"end":8392.6,"text":"有關於中小微企業的升級轉型部分"},{"start":8392.6,"end":8395.6,"text":"剛才長官已經有提到了"},{"start":8395.6,"end":8399.6,"text":"這個預計在我們是希望在8月份"},{"start":8399.6,"end":8403.6,"text":"我們會通過全面的經濟部會、全面的情報行政院"},{"start":8403.6,"end":8405.6,"text":"經濟部會、情報行政院"},{"start":8405.6,"end":8408.6,"text":"然後9月份會送請立法院來審議"},{"start":8408.6,"end":8412.6,"text":"這個我們現在中小微對我們來講是非常重要的"},{"start":8412.6,"end":8415.6,"text":"因為我們台灣最主要都還是中小微的企業"},{"start":8415.6,"end":8420.6,"text":"我們希望能夠擴大研發頭底、普惠金融等等"},{"start":8420.6,"end":8426.6,"text":"讓中小微能夠有提供加薪跟增固的這些優惠"},{"start":8426.6,"end":8429.6,"text":"還有他們的整體的競爭力"},{"start":8429.6,"end":8435.6,"text":"那也有老師有提到就是有關於資金的部分"},{"start":8435.6,"end":8437.6,"text":"有國發基金這一塊"},{"start":8437.6,"end":8444.6,"text":"國發基金其實我們有透過主題式的百億的投資方案"},{"start":8444.6,"end":8448.6,"text":"讓這些資金能夠引導到我們最主要是具有發展潛力"},{"start":8448.6,"end":8451.6,"text":"還有政策意義的產業的領域"},{"start":8451.6,"end":8454.6,"text":"那人才的部分AI人才"},{"start":8454.6,"end":8458.6,"text":"我們是希望說AI的人才生態系"},{"start":8458.6,"end":8462.6,"text":"除了透過培育新世代人才以外"},{"start":8462.6,"end":8469.6,"text":"我們希望說能夠強化產業的人才培育以及提升在地人才的培育量能"},{"start":8469.6,"end":8475.6,"text":"換句話說就是AI的人才紅利能夠向百工百業擴散"},{"start":8475.6,"end":8478.6,"text":"那第二大部分就是加薪的政策"},{"start":8478.6,"end":8480.6,"text":"那政府是希望說"},{"start":8480.6,"end":8485.6,"text":"政府自己是作為一個加薪的引擎"},{"start":8485.6,"end":8487.6,"text":"然後薪資能夠透明"},{"start":8487.6,"end":8492.6,"text":"然後中小企業也給他們透過這樣的能力以後"},{"start":8492.6,"end":8496.6,"text":"他們也能夠有帶動的這個加薪的誘因的作用"},{"start":8496.6,"end":8501.6,"text":"那各位也有看到最近就是有關於最低薪資的這一塊"},{"start":8501.6,"end":8506.6,"text":"那最低薪資法是已經就是已經是轉法了"},{"start":8506.6,"end":8513.6,"text":"那這個未來我們是希望說能夠保障弱勢勞工的基本所需"},{"start":8513.6,"end":8517.6,"text":"那第三塊的部分是減輕民眾的租稅負擔"},{"start":8517.6,"end":8526.6,"text":"那剛才財政部長官已經有提到有關於這個租稅的相關的減免減輕負擔的部分"},{"start":8526.6,"end":8530.6,"text":"那另外還有一塊我們這邊特別要提出來就是說"},{"start":8530.6,"end":8532.6,"text":"其實為了要穩定國內的這個物價"},{"start":8532.6,"end":8537.6,"text":"行政院有多次有召開這個會議要穩定這個相關的"},{"start":8537.6,"end":8540.6,"text":"有注意了國內外的物價的這個情勢"},{"start":8540.6,"end":8543.6,"text":"然後推動一些相關的物價的穩定的措施"},{"start":8543.6,"end":8549.6,"text":"那各位也可以感受到好像中東情勢造成這個國內的物價的這個波動"},{"start":8549.6,"end":8556.6,"text":"所以在包括氣燃油還有民生用戶天然氣、桶裝瓦斯、電價等等"},{"start":8556.6,"end":8559.6,"text":"目前都是有特別討論"},{"start":8559.6,"end":8562.6,"text":"那我們最主要是要照顧民眾的生活"},{"start":8562.6,"end":8568.6,"text":"那總之來講在政府的考量部分AI驅動的新經濟成長"},{"start":8568.6,"end":8575.6,"text":"原則上來講這是一個大家都認同的一個未來的主要的發展模式"},{"start":8575.6,"end":8579.6,"text":"但是我們還是會用創新驅動或數位轉型以及晉齡轉型等等"},{"start":8579.6,"end":8583.6,"text":"最主要是要把AI紅綠擴散到各行各業"},{"start":8583.6,"end":8588.6,"text":"然後我們會去扶植傳統的產業以及中小微的轉型"},{"start":8588.6,"end":8594.6,"text":"那我們希望說企業跟勞工跟大家一起能夠共享成果"},{"start":8594.6,"end":8595.6,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":8596.6,"end":8604.6,"text":"謝謝我們國發會的產業發展處的副處長陳瓊華副處長的回應"},{"start":8604.6,"end":8610.6,"text":"接下來我邀請我們經濟部我們綜合規劃司的林司長"},{"start":8610.6,"end":8611.6,"text":"謝謝歡迎您"},{"start":8618.6,"end":8626.6,"text":"主席以及各位在場委員以及我們的先進的學者專家還有各單位的代表"},{"start":8626.6,"end":8627.6,"text":"大家好"},{"start":8627.6,"end":8632.6,"text":"謝謝今天陳磨委員會的邀請來參與今天的公聽會"},{"start":8632.6,"end":8638.6,"text":"那也謝謝各位先進跟學者專家的不吝的視角"},{"start":8638.6,"end":8642.6,"text":"那針對剛剛各位先進提到的一些議題"},{"start":8643.6,"end":8646.6,"text":"我也代表經濟部在這裡做一些說明"},{"start":8646.6,"end":8650.6,"text":"那經濟部除了優勢產業的重視以外"},{"start":8650.6,"end":8655.6,"text":"其實輔導傳統產業跟內需型產業朝高質化發展"},{"start":8655.6,"end":8658.6,"text":"其實也是經濟部非常重要的工作"},{"start":8658.6,"end":8662.6,"text":"所以在傳統產業跟商業服務業的升級轉型的部分"},{"start":8662.6,"end":8666.6,"text":"我們也繼續很努力的在推動"},{"start":8666.6,"end":8672.6,"text":"近年來我們都知道在這個半導體跟高科技的持續成長之下"},{"start":8672.6,"end":8676.6,"text":"其實我們也積極的引導國內的傳統產業"},{"start":8676.6,"end":8680.6,"text":"像金屬加工或是像塑膠產業"},{"start":8680.6,"end":8683.6,"text":"以及光學等等的這些"},{"start":8683.6,"end":8688.6,"text":"就是我們台灣其實大部分中小企業或傳統產業"},{"start":8688.6,"end":8691.6,"text":"都在這些產業中心的產業上"},{"start":8691.6,"end":8694.6,"text":"所以我們也希望帶動這些產業"},{"start":8694.6,"end":8700.6,"text":"跨入我們這些優勢產業的設備及材料"},{"start":8700.6,"end":8702.6,"text":"來提升它產品的價值"},{"start":8702.6,"end":8705.6,"text":"透過這些傳產的協助"},{"start":8705.6,"end":8708.6,"text":"推動他們在高質化跟技術研發"},{"start":8708.6,"end":8710.6,"text":"以及我們的產業輔導方面"},{"start":8710.6,"end":8711.6,"text":"有多餘協助"},{"start":8711.6,"end":8715.6,"text":"希望我們來強化整個所有傳統產業的競爭力"},{"start":8715.6,"end":8718.6,"text":"以及我們在傳統產業的產業的輔導方面"},{"start":8718.6,"end":8721.6,"text":"我們也希望能夠強化整個所有傳統產業的競爭力"},{"start":8721.6,"end":8725.6,"text":"並且也能夠強化我們供應鏈的韌性"},{"start":8725.6,"end":8728.6,"text":"另外我們在商業服務的部分"},{"start":8728.6,"end":8733.6,"text":"也就是剛剛有些先進提到的一些地方型或內需型的產業"},{"start":8733.6,"end":8736.6,"text":"像零售、餐飲、生活服務等等"},{"start":8736.6,"end":8739.6,"text":"這些或市集或商圈等等"},{"start":8739.6,"end":8744.6,"text":"這些我們也都很積極在推動輔導他們在地發展"},{"start":8744.6,"end":8748.6,"text":"並且讓他們在環境的基礎建設優化"},{"start":8748.6,"end":8750.6,"text":"市集的這個品牌能夠提升"},{"start":8750.6,"end":8753.6,"text":"商圈的消費環境能夠美化"},{"start":8753.6,"end":8758.6,"text":"來提升我們這些在地產業商業服務的經營的競爭力"},{"start":8758.6,"end":8763.6,"text":"另外經濟部為了各行各業、各產業"},{"start":8763.6,"end":8767.6,"text":"所以我們也有成立跨部會的產業輔導團"},{"start":8767.6,"end":8769.6,"text":"也希望藉由跨部會的合作"},{"start":8769.6,"end":8772.6,"text":"從金融、從人才、從市場擴展"},{"start":8772.6,"end":8776.6,"text":"一直到節能永續或是跟勞動部合作"},{"start":8776.6,"end":8779.6,"text":"在勞動升級方面我們也都積極的在推動"},{"start":8779.6,"end":8782.6,"text":"希望能夠藉由這樣的輔導團"},{"start":8782.6,"end":8787.6,"text":"能夠到各行各業到各地去做輔導"},{"start":8787.6,"end":8793.6,"text":"這個部分已經也是我們現在進一步努力的在進行的方向"},{"start":8793.6,"end":8797.6,"text":"另外在產業創新條例的部分"},{"start":8797.6,"end":8804.6,"text":"我們還是繼續推動我們在產業的研發、投資及人才培訓"},{"start":8804.6,"end":8807.6,"text":"希望能夠藉由產創條例的鼓勵"},{"start":8807.6,"end":8812.6,"text":"跟租稅的優惠來幫產業做很多的升級轉型"},{"start":8812.6,"end":8816.6,"text":"最後當然我也要稍微說明一下"},{"start":8816.6,"end":8820.6,"text":"在未來剛剛我們幾位各部會的長官"},{"start":8820.6,"end":8823.6,"text":"也有提到的所謂的中小企業"},{"start":8823.6,"end":8828.6,"text":"中小企業現在目前正在進行中小企業條例的修正"},{"start":8828.6,"end":8832.6,"text":"未來中小企業條例會更名為"},{"start":8832.6,"end":8835.6,"text":"中小微企業轉型升級發展條例"},{"start":8835.6,"end":8841.6,"text":"目前這個條例大概有幾個主軸的方向在進行修法"},{"start":8841.6,"end":8846.6,"text":"一個是研發創新、轉型發展、通路的部件、財務的隆通、輔導"},{"start":8846.6,"end":8851.6,"text":"還有染財、留財及新創企業的培育等等"},{"start":8851.6,"end":8856.6,"text":"主要也是希望藉著這樣的幾個政策主軸的方向"},{"start":8856.6,"end":8859.6,"text":"我們來擴大對微型企業的照顧"},{"start":8859.6,"end":8864.6,"text":"希望能夠涵蓋我們170多萬家中小微企業的支持體系"},{"start":8864.6,"end":8869.6,"text":"協助一些小微的微型店家擴大他的銷售量能"},{"start":8869.6,"end":8875.6,"text":"讓商圈、市場等等這些有特色的地方特色產業"},{"start":8875.6,"end":8878.6,"text":"跟旅遊能夠發展起來"},{"start":8878.6,"end":8881.6,"text":"另外第二個我們也會推動產業群聚的轉型"},{"start":8881.6,"end":8883.6,"text":"就如同剛剛先進有提到的"},{"start":8883.6,"end":8887.6,"text":"我們會用以大代小來協助我們這些中小微企業"},{"start":8887.6,"end":8890.6,"text":"來借借我們大型的企業的供應鏈"},{"start":8890.6,"end":8894.6,"text":"或是大型的通路或是平台數位的平台"},{"start":8894.6,"end":8898.6,"text":"做一些關鍵性技術的成長跟品牌的提升"},{"start":8898.6,"end":8904.6,"text":"希望利用大的企業來帶動我們這些中小微企業來共同發展"},{"start":8904.6,"end":8908.6,"text":"另外我們也會優化研發發展支出投資的抵減"},{"start":8908.6,"end":8913.6,"text":"希望能夠來提升我們這些中小微企業在研發的投入"},{"start":8913.6,"end":8919.6,"text":"另外還有就是我們會增加轉型設備購置的投資抵減"},{"start":8919.6,"end":8923.6,"text":"其實我們很多中小微企業要朝高子化的發展"},{"start":8923.6,"end":8925.6,"text":"其實他們還有一些設備"},{"start":8925.6,"end":8931.6,"text":"尤其是在智慧機械或是數位或是人工智慧等等的軟硬體技術"},{"start":8931.6,"end":8934.6,"text":"都必須要做一些升級跟改善"},{"start":8934.6,"end":8942.6,"text":"這個部分我們希望未來在修法裡面能夠提供這方面的一些租稅的投資的優惠"},{"start":8942.6,"end":8947.6,"text":"另外我們當然也希望能夠優化正固員工及員工加薪的租稅優惠"},{"start":8947.6,"end":8950.6,"text":"其實在113年的時候"},{"start":8950.6,"end":8954.6,"text":"其實中小企業發展條例的36條之二"},{"start":8954.6,"end":8958.6,"text":"就有針對員工加薪的一些相關的租稅優惠"},{"start":8958.6,"end":8960.6,"text":"已經有去做修正"},{"start":8960.6,"end":8963.6,"text":"未來這個部分我們會來協助"},{"start":8963.6,"end":8968.6,"text":"看看要不要放寬一些我們增固的一些基層員工的年齡"},{"start":8968.6,"end":8974.6,"text":"或是一些加薪保證等等這方面的一些相關的優惠再予以提升"},{"start":8974.6,"end":8983.6,"text":"這個部分都是我們未來在中小企業這些升級轉型的條例的目前的內容我們會來做努力"},{"start":8983.6,"end":8988.6,"text":"最後就是各位學者專家提供的非常多寶貴的意見"},{"start":8988.6,"end":8991.6,"text":"我們都會納入來做這個參考"},{"start":8991.6,"end":8993.6,"text":"那以上說明謝謝"},{"start":8993.6,"end":8998.6,"text":"非常感謝我們經濟部重要規劃司司長的回應"},{"start":8998.6,"end":9000.6,"text":"剛剛這些回應其實都非常的好"},{"start":9000.6,"end":9002.6,"text":"具體如何落實"},{"start":9002.6,"end":9006.6,"text":"我們也希望短時間之內公告出來讓國人都知道"},{"start":9006.6,"end":9010.6,"text":"包括剛才有幾位學者專家還有理事長所提到的"},{"start":9010.6,"end":9013.6,"text":"國家重點產業的支援跟協助"},{"start":9013.6,"end":9020.6,"text":"上一個階段包括醫療生物醫療再生醫療產業是蔡政府所重視的"},{"start":9020.6,"end":9023.6,"text":"後續我們如何去延續下去"},{"start":9023.6,"end":9026.6,"text":"我們希望有機會創造更多的護國群山"},{"start":9026.6,"end":9029.6,"text":"也希望相關的部會經濟部也做一下思考"},{"start":9029.6,"end":9033.6,"text":"好接下來邀請我們衛福部"},{"start":9033.6,"end":9039.6,"text":"我們衛福部今天來到現場是我們醫事師還有食藥署的檢認記證"},{"start":9039.6,"end":9042.6,"text":"我們派一位代表回應謝謝"},{"start":9043.6,"end":9044.6,"text":"主席"},{"start":9044.6,"end":9048.6,"text":"還有我們的各位學者專家還有工協會代表大家好"},{"start":9048.6,"end":9055.6,"text":"衛生福利部在針對剛才在我們的工協會有提出的一些問題的這部分"},{"start":9055.6,"end":9056.6,"text":"來做說明"},{"start":9056.6,"end":9058.6,"text":"因為也跟主席不好意思"},{"start":9058.6,"end":9060.6,"text":"因為我們分別"},{"start":9060.6,"end":9063.6,"text":"那個有關醫療技術的部分是在"},{"start":9063.6,"end":9065.6,"text":"我們公共的一些問題上"},{"start":9065.6,"end":9067.6,"text":"我們也有提出一些問題"},{"start":9067.6,"end":9069.6,"text":"我們大概會分別來做個說明"},{"start":9069.6,"end":9071.6,"text":"不過都是簡單的方式來做個說明"},{"start":9071.6,"end":9075.6,"text":"那首先就是有提到就是說我們目前的一個法規的部分"},{"start":9075.6,"end":9077.6,"text":"好像還沒有完成"},{"start":9077.6,"end":9078.6,"text":"那先報告一下"},{"start":9078.6,"end":9082.6,"text":"目前我們有16部的這個法規都已經發布"},{"start":9082.6,"end":9083.6,"text":"而且是在去年發布"},{"start":9083.6,"end":9086.6,"text":"因為這去年發布是為了要因應我們今年"},{"start":9086.6,"end":9088.6,"text":"我們在這個年度的這個法規"},{"start":9088.6,"end":9090.6,"text":"我們在這個年度的這個法規"},{"start":9090.6,"end":9092.6,"text":"我們在這個年度的這個法規"},{"start":9092.6,"end":9094.6,"text":"我們在這個年度的這個法規"},{"start":9094.6,"end":9096.6,"text":"因為這去年發布是為了"},{"start":9096.6,"end":9098.6,"text":"要因應我們今年1月1號開始有關"},{"start":9098.6,"end":9100.6,"text":"再生醫療這個法"},{"start":9100.6,"end":9102.6,"text":"跟這個再生醫療治濟條例"},{"start":9102.6,"end":9104.6,"text":"這兩個法律的這個施行"},{"start":9104.6,"end":9106.6,"text":"所以執法規其實都ready"},{"start":9106.6,"end":9109.6,"text":"所以有關法規的部分已經ready"},{"start":9109.6,"end":9113.6,"text":"那當然這個法規是新發布的"},{"start":9113.6,"end":9114.6,"text":"法律也是新的"},{"start":9114.6,"end":9117.6,"text":"所以在後面的一個執行上面"},{"start":9117.6,"end":9119.6,"text":"如果有一些地方需要調整的部分"},{"start":9119.6,"end":9122.6,"text":"在座可以給我們一些很具體的建議"},{"start":9122.6,"end":9123.6,"text":"我們都可以來去做一些調整"},{"start":9123.6,"end":9125.6,"text":"這個是有關法規的部分"},{"start":9125.6,"end":9127.6,"text":"那第二個是有提到就是說"},{"start":9127.6,"end":9128.6,"text":"審查的這個透明度"},{"start":9128.6,"end":9132.6,"text":"因為的確就是衛福部從今年開始來去執行"},{"start":9132.6,"end":9135.6,"text":"有關這個不管是再生醫療的技術"},{"start":9135.6,"end":9137.6,"text":"或者是製劑的部分"},{"start":9137.6,"end":9139.6,"text":"都有申請案也有核准案件"},{"start":9139.6,"end":9142.6,"text":"那目前的一個案件的一個審查的這個部分"},{"start":9142.6,"end":9144.6,"text":"先做個說明"},{"start":9144.6,"end":9146.6,"text":"其實我們針對這個有關透明度的部分"},{"start":9146.6,"end":9148.6,"text":"我們有在衛福部包含像我們醫師"},{"start":9148.6,"end":9151.6,"text":"食藥署在我們的網站上面"},{"start":9151.6,"end":9153.6,"text":"都有再生醫療一個專區"},{"start":9153.6,"end":9157.6,"text":"那在衛福部醫師式的再生醫療技術的專區裡面"},{"start":9157.6,"end":9160.6,"text":"我們包含有訂定所謂的申請的一個須知"},{"start":9160.6,"end":9163.6,"text":"因為擔心醫療機構在申請面上不清楚"},{"start":9163.6,"end":9166.6,"text":"所以第一個我們訂申請須知"},{"start":9166.6,"end":9169.6,"text":"那第二個我們也有所謂的線上申辦系統"},{"start":9169.6,"end":9171.6,"text":"讓大家很清楚知道說"},{"start":9171.6,"end":9175.6,"text":"目前的一個申請的一個流程審查進度到什麼樣子的狀況"},{"start":9175.6,"end":9178.6,"text":"那第三個我們對於我們的審議的會議記錄"},{"start":9178.6,"end":9180.6,"text":"是原則上採公開制度"},{"start":9180.6,"end":9183.6,"text":"因此有關記錄的這個部分也會公開"},{"start":9183.6,"end":9184.6,"text":"就是大家如果不清楚"},{"start":9184.6,"end":9187.6,"text":"其實我們會盡量採取這個"},{"start":9187.6,"end":9191.6,"text":"不管是在流程上面或者是結果上面都會做公開"},{"start":9191.6,"end":9194.6,"text":"那另外還有一個搭配就是我們也會有"},{"start":9194.6,"end":9197.6,"text":"再生醫療的技術的一個年報"},{"start":9197.6,"end":9199.6,"text":"我們透過我們的年報也會揭露說"},{"start":9199.6,"end":9201.6,"text":"我們大概有做了哪一些作為"},{"start":9201.6,"end":9206.6,"text":"哪一些新的一個機制在這個年報上做一個處理"},{"start":9206.6,"end":9209.6,"text":"那另外還有一塊就是說"},{"start":9209.6,"end":9210.6,"text":"單親就是說"},{"start":9210.6,"end":9214.6,"text":"那如果我們醫療機構在做申請案件的時候"},{"start":9214.6,"end":9216.6,"text":"可能不是很清楚或者是不了解"},{"start":9216.6,"end":9218.6,"text":"我們的審議的意見"},{"start":9218.6,"end":9220.6,"text":"到底是怎麼回事"},{"start":9220.6,"end":9223.6,"text":"其實我們都有所謂的輔導機制"},{"start":9223.6,"end":9225.6,"text":"那當我們輔導機制就是大家"},{"start":9225.6,"end":9227.6,"text":"有一些在做可能熟悉就是"},{"start":9227.6,"end":9231.6,"text":"我們是請我們的CD來當作我們的輔導團隊"},{"start":9231.6,"end":9233.6,"text":"所以對於這個審查的意見"},{"start":9233.6,"end":9236.6,"text":"或者是即便醫療機構想要申請"},{"start":9236.6,"end":9238.6,"text":"他不清楚怎麼樣子來申請"},{"start":9238.6,"end":9239.6,"text":"有輔導機制"},{"start":9239.6,"end":9244.6,"text":"那包含我們每年CD會辦理四場的一個說明會"},{"start":9244.6,"end":9247.6,"text":"讓醫療機構能夠參加了解如何來做申請"},{"start":9247.6,"end":9250.6,"text":"那審查過程中如果有相關的問題"},{"start":9250.6,"end":9251.6,"text":"都可以來去詢問"},{"start":9251.6,"end":9255.6,"text":"以力大家來申請案件的一個流程上面的一個進行"},{"start":9255.6,"end":9258.6,"text":"那另外一個部分就是有提到就是說"},{"start":9258.6,"end":9262.6,"text":"希望針對是有關費用的部分"},{"start":9263.6,"end":9265.6,"text":"那的確必須要來講就是說"},{"start":9265.6,"end":9271.6,"text":"目前來講有關再生醫療的案件多數是自費方式"},{"start":9271.6,"end":9277.6,"text":"那但是因為健保署針對我們的病人的醫療費用負擔"},{"start":9277.6,"end":9281.6,"text":"其實有跟國健署去做合作就是有關的抗癌三件"},{"start":9281.6,"end":9283.6,"text":"從114年我們開始做提出"},{"start":9283.6,"end":9286.6,"text":"包含我們擴大的這個癌症篩檢的這個對象"},{"start":9286.6,"end":9287.6,"text":"把它做擴大"},{"start":9287.6,"end":9289.6,"text":"那第二個是把有關LDT"},{"start":9289.6,"end":9291.6,"text":"就基因檢測的部分"},{"start":9291.6,"end":9293.6,"text":"精準醫療的這個部分把它納入給付"},{"start":9293.6,"end":9295.6,"text":"那第三個當然大家更清楚的是"},{"start":9295.6,"end":9299.6,"text":"有關我們的百億的抗癌新藥基金"},{"start":9299.6,"end":9306.6,"text":"來去針對我們新申請出來的這一些抗癌的一些製劑"},{"start":9306.6,"end":9309.6,"text":"能夠透過所謂的這個優先給付"},{"start":9309.6,"end":9313.6,"text":"透過這個暫時性給付的方式"},{"start":9313.6,"end":9318.6,"text":"能夠讓這個藥品可以提早給國人在健保上面的使用"},{"start":9318.6,"end":9319.6,"text":"來去做處理"},{"start":9319.6,"end":9321.6,"text":"那另外有關自費的部分"},{"start":9321.6,"end":9324.6,"text":"我們從受理案件開始"},{"start":9324.6,"end":9330.6,"text":"大概我們看到的說如果是屬於用於這個傷口"},{"start":9330.6,"end":9334.6,"text":"或者是軟組織的一個治療費用的這個部分"},{"start":9334.6,"end":9338.6,"text":"大概平均自費大概是30萬到50萬"},{"start":9338.6,"end":9339.6,"text":"那如果是屬於癌症的話"},{"start":9339.6,"end":9342.6,"text":"大概是100萬到200萬不等"},{"start":9342.6,"end":9345.6,"text":"那目前來講這一些自費的審查"},{"start":9345.6,"end":9346.6,"text":"因為考量到說"},{"start":9346.6,"end":9348.6,"text":"按照我們醫療法的規定"},{"start":9348.6,"end":9350.6,"text":"其實醫療機構要收取自費"},{"start":9350.6,"end":9353.6,"text":"它必須要經當地衛生局去核准"},{"start":9353.6,"end":9357.6,"text":"可是因為這樣子一個案件可能就要送22個縣市"},{"start":9357.6,"end":9360.6,"text":"所以我們從114年開始"},{"start":9360.6,"end":9364.6,"text":"我們也有推動全國醫療費用的一個資訊平台"},{"start":9364.6,"end":9370.6,"text":"那只要是全國首例沒有對應到現在的一個這個"},{"start":9370.6,"end":9373.6,"text":"醫療費用的給付項目的醫療器材"},{"start":9373.6,"end":9374.6,"text":"或者新醫療技術"},{"start":9374.6,"end":9376.6,"text":"都可以透過我們這個平台"},{"start":9376.6,"end":9381.6,"text":"由衛福部來去協同地方共同審查"},{"start":9381.6,"end":9385.6,"text":"來加快有關自費收取費用的費額的一個審查流程"},{"start":9385.6,"end":9388.6,"text":"讓大家能夠儘快讓這個技術進入到市場"},{"start":9388.6,"end":9390.6,"text":"這邊也就是說一併做一個補充"},{"start":9390.6,"end":9393.6,"text":"好大概是屬於醫療技術的部分"},{"start":9393.6,"end":9395.6,"text":"在這邊做個說明"},{"start":9395.6,"end":9398.6,"text":"那有關藥品的部分我們就請我們食藥署謝謝"},{"start":9398.6,"end":9400.6,"text":"主席各位委員會先進大家好"},{"start":9400.6,"end":9402.6,"text":"那食藥署這邊補充一下"},{"start":9402.6,"end":9405.6,"text":"那隨著再生醫療製劑條例的一個完成制定"},{"start":9405.6,"end":9407.6,"text":"其實我們相關配套的七項子法規"},{"start":9407.6,"end":9410.6,"text":"都已經在去年完成訂定以及公告"},{"start":9410.6,"end":9413.6,"text":"那也配合的再生醫療雙法在今年1月1號同步實行"},{"start":9413.6,"end":9418.6,"text":"那在截至今天其實食藥署已經核准了九項的"},{"start":9418.6,"end":9420.6,"text":"再生醫療製劑的藥品許可證"},{"start":9420.6,"end":9423.6,"text":"以及核准了181項的臨床試驗在台執行"},{"start":9423.6,"end":9425.6,"text":"那要推動整個再生醫療製劑的產業"},{"start":9425.6,"end":9427.6,"text":"其實我們今年也推動了"},{"start":9427.6,"end":9430.6,"text":"台灣再生醫療製劑的輔導專案"},{"start":9430.6,"end":9432.6,"text":"我們簡稱TRMATE"},{"start":9432.6,"end":9434.6,"text":"它其實是透過一個包含CDE 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非常感謝我們衛福部醫事司跟食藥署的回應"},{"start":9483.6,"end":9487.6,"text":"也希望透過更透明的修法的進度"},{"start":9487.6,"end":9489.6,"text":"跟產業界有更多的溝通"},{"start":9489.6,"end":9491.6,"text":"那我想對於整體的"},{"start":9491.6,"end":9494.6,"text":"包括再生治濟醫療法的發展會更好"},{"start":9494.6,"end":9495.6,"text":"好 最後一位"},{"start":9495.6,"end":9500.6,"text":"我邀請勞動部勞動條件及就業平等司的副市長"},{"start":9500.6,"end":9502.6,"text":"王副市長來做回應說明 謝謝"},{"start":9509.6,"end":9512.6,"text":"主席 還有各位專家學者"},{"start":9512.6,"end":9513.6,"text":"還有余慧仙請大家好"},{"start":9513.6,"end":9514.6,"text":"好 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