{"error":false,"id":["17630"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17630,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17630","日期":"2026-07-30","影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2026-07-30T08:34:42+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-30T11:57:00+08:00","影片長度":"03:22:18","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e36c9025ded6a2485447001677712d4519c076e573ffc0412e410a92867c9ec065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-07-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第3次公聽會（事由：召開「面對K型經濟問題，行政部門如何引導經濟成果均衡分配於全體勞工，並維繫非半導體產業發展動能」公聽會）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:34:42 - 11:57:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1652.1947187500002,"end":1655.2828437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1655.62034375,"end":1656.19409375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1658.1347187500003,"end":1702.2797187500003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1702.9209687500002,"end":1781.6934687500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1781.8622187500002,"end":1815.22409375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1817.7384687500003,"end":1819.6790937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1821.0459687500002,"end":1822.27784375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1823.4759687500002,"end":1829.6184687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1832.0315937500002,"end":1836.89159375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1839.1022187500002,"end":1845.4303437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1847.1178437500002,"end":1852.5853437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1853.7159687500002,"end":1861.2590937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1863.7228437500003,"end":1869.7640937500003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1870.4053437500002,"end":1871.2997187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1871.90721875,"end":1875.1809687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1875.5184687500002,"end":1877.3240937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1877.94846875,"end":1882.2515937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1883.5003437500002,"end":1887.3984687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1888.7484687500003,"end":1892.2584687500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1893.43971875,"end":1897.0003437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1898.5528437500002,"end":1903.0247187500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1906.3490937500003,"end":1910.58471875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1911.6647187500002,"end":1916.62596875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1917.2672187500002,"end":1923.1565937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1924.6078437500003,"end":1928.2190937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1929.5184687500002,"end":1934.8847187500003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1936.2515937500002,"end":1941.6178437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1942.9847187500002,"end":1949.7515937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1951.5403437500001,"end":1954.2403437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1956.01221875,"end":1960.8553437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1962.7115937500002,"end":1968.0272187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1970.0522187500003,"end":1981.8478437500003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":1984.1934687500002,"end":2007.1097187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2016.2390937500002,"end":2018.8209687500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2019.71534375,"end":2022.4153437500001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2022.80346875,"end":2028.70971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2029.1990937500002,"end":2041.07909375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2041.4840937500003,"end":2047.5759687500001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2048.09909375,"end":2088.10971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2088.6159687500003,"end":2103.24659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2103.90471875,"end":2104.3434687500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2105.8622187500005,"end":2113.7090937500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2114.0634687500005,"end":2117.10096875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2117.38784375,"end":2131.9003437500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2132.87909375,"end":2133.67221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2133.97596875,"end":2143.2909687500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2143.67909375,"end":2146.4803437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2146.75034375,"end":2147.30721875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2148.18471875,"end":2149.1972187500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2149.33221875,"end":2151.62721875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2151.7790937500004,"end":2152.9940937500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2153.2809687500003,"end":2153.80409375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2154.0065937500003,"end":2158.02284375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2158.3434687500003,"end":2166.3590937500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2166.93284375,"end":2168.1309687500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2169.0253437500005,"end":2171.03346875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2171.40471875,"end":2172.36659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2172.6365937500004,"end":2174.0709687500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2174.1384687500004,"end":2176.33221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2176.6865937500006,"end":2193.62909375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2193.8990937500002,"end":2202.60659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2203.11284375,"end":2208.41159375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2209.0865937500002,"end":2210.50409375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2210.58846875,"end":2212.44471875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2212.69784375,"end":2221.4053437500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2221.55721875,"end":2222.82284375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2223.3797187500004,"end":2229.38721875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2229.69096875,"end":2230.83846875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2231.1590937500005,"end":2232.74534375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2233.1503437500005,"end":2233.82534375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2234.56784375,"end":2237.9765937500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2238.4490937500004,"end":2240.64284375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2241.38534375,"end":2242.65096875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2242.7353437500005,"end":2246.2284687500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2246.5997187500006,"end":2257.5515937500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2257.9734687500004,"end":2259.3572187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2259.8972187500003,"end":2263.32284375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2263.3397187500004,"end":2265.41534375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2266.4615937500002,"end":2268.2840937500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2268.4528437500003,"end":2270.07284375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2270.41034375,"end":2276.6540937500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2277.8015937500004,"end":2281.56471875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2282.10471875,"end":2282.7965937500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2283.85971875,"end":2287.3865937500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2288.26409375,"end":2289.6647187500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2289.7322187500004,"end":2290.62659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2291.6728437500005,"end":2293.6640937500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2293.9678437500006,"end":2296.8534687500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2297.49471875,"end":2304.4303437500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2304.76784375,"end":2306.10096875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2306.70846875,"end":2308.02471875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2308.37909375,"end":2310.43784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2310.6403437500003,"end":2312.85096875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2313.27284375,"end":2315.0447187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2315.66909375,"end":2317.2722187500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2317.4578437500004,"end":2318.1159687500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2319.1622187500006,"end":2322.31784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2322.73971875,"end":2324.7478437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2324.83221875,"end":2326.0303437500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2326.60409375,"end":2332.18971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2333.05034375,"end":2334.8728437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2334.95721875,"end":2336.6278437500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2337.1003437500003,"end":2337.5390937500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2337.85971875,"end":2339.7665937500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2340.40784375,"end":2340.9647187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2342.61846875,"end":2343.8672187500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2344.00221875,"end":2346.0778437500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2346.46596875,"end":2347.49534375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2347.9678437500006,"end":2350.7353437500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2351.2584687500002,"end":2353.7559687500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2353.77284375,"end":2354.75159375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2356.8272187500006,"end":2357.9578437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2358.36284375,"end":2360.9615937500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2361.3328437500004,"end":2364.03284375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2364.4209687500006,"end":2368.3190937500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2368.9434687500006,"end":2371.9978437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2372.52096875,"end":2373.22971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2374.15784375,"end":2377.21221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2377.51596875,"end":2381.6334687500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2382.4772187500002,"end":2388.55221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2389.07534375,"end":2392.5684687500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2393.00721875,"end":2396.43284375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2396.85471875,"end":2397.4453437500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2397.81659375,"end":2399.03159375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2399.47034375,"end":2399.8415937500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2399.99346875,"end":2400.76971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2400.9890937500004,"end":2401.86659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2402.64284375,"end":2405.3934687500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2405.5790937500005,"end":2406.4228437500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2406.62534375,"end":2407.58721875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2408.4140937500006,"end":2410.2028437500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2410.6415937500005,"end":2414.4890937500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2414.99534375,"end":2416.44659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2416.7165937500004,"end":2417.29034375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2417.94846875,"end":2419.8047187500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2420.1590937500005,"end":2421.6778437500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2422.0997187500006,"end":2424.5634687500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2424.9178437500004,"end":2427.3815937500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2427.76971875,"end":2428.69784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2429.22096875,"end":2430.50346875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2431.0097187500005,"end":2433.22034375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2433.55784375,"end":2434.5028437500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2434.5703437500006,"end":2435.75159375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2436.08909375,"end":2436.6628437500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2436.8653437500006,"end":2440.4597187500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2440.61159375,"end":2441.6072187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2442.0290937500004,"end":2444.42534375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2444.84721875,"end":2445.85971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2446.0790937500005,"end":2447.71596875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2448.44159375,"end":2450.3484687500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2450.97284375,"end":2452.2890937500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2452.8122187500003,"end":2459.1572187500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2459.6803437500002,"end":2460.99659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2461.3340937500006,"end":2465.31659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2466.4978437500004,"end":2467.7803437500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2468.5059687500006,"end":2470.63221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2470.98659375,"end":2472.2184687500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2472.55596875,"end":2474.6484687500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2475.03659375,"end":2476.72409375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2477.0615937500006,"end":2478.59721875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2479.37346875,"end":2482.1747187500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2482.6640937500006,"end":2484.79034375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2485.1278437500005,"end":2491.30409375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2491.9453437500006,"end":2494.9997187500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2495.6747187500005,"end":2498.0203437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2498.6278437500005,"end":2499.87659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2500.5515937500004,"end":2501.19284375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2501.5303437500006,"end":2502.9647187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2503.30221875,"end":2504.92221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2505.05721875,"end":2506.5084687500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2507.09909375,"end":2508.65159375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2508.85409375,"end":2509.7147187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2510.0184687500005,"end":2513.6972187500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2515.41846875,"end":2516.6503437500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2517.51096875,"end":2518.16909375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2518.5740937500004,"end":2519.5528437500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2519.8397187500004,"end":2520.8690937500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2521.12221875,"end":2522.26971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2522.5397187500002,"end":2523.13034375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2523.90659375,"end":2524.2947187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2525.2565937500003,"end":2526.3534687500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2527.21409375,"end":2529.55971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2529.76221875,"end":2543.66721875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2543.7684687500005,"end":2545.3209687500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2545.9284687500003,"end":2547.5653437500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2547.95346875,"end":2549.3709687500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2549.6240937500006,"end":2549.9784687500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2550.1640937500006,"end":2551.34534375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2551.6490937500002,"end":2552.5097187500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2553.3028437500006,"end":2554.8553437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2555.12534375,"end":2556.13784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2556.39096875,"end":2575.84784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2575.96596875,"end":2580.15096875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2580.31971875,"end":2583.0703437500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2583.2559687500006,"end":2584.60596875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2584.6228437500004,"end":2588.14971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2588.3184687500006,"end":2589.22971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2589.29721875,"end":2589.9215937500003,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2590.2422187500006,"end":2590.8328437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2591.23784375,"end":2593.68471875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2594.12346875,"end":2596.18221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2596.72221875,"end":2598.8653437500006,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2598.9665937500004,"end":2603.6072187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2603.94471875,"end":2607.3365937500002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2607.48846875,"end":2609.8172187500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2610.0703437500006,"end":2611.16721875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2611.5215937500006,"end":2612.92221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2613.15846875,"end":2614.5253437500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2614.77846875,"end":2615.9090937500005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2616.0272187500004,"end":2617.74846875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2617.7822187500005,"end":2618.9803437500004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2619.1659687500005,"end":2619.60471875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":2620.0603437500004,"end":2621.19096875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":2623.82346875,"end":2630.0672187500004,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2647.4147187500002,"end":2653.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2654.4684687500003,"end":2656.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2656.84784375,"end":2659.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2659.44659375,"end":2663.2940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2663.61471875,"end":2667.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2668.12034375,"end":2757.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2757.57471875,"end":2778.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2779.0565937500005,"end":2780.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2781.36846875,"end":2782.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2783.4609687500006,"end":2790.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2790.48096875,"end":2798.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2798.49659375,"end":2805.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2806.4278437500006,"end":2810.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2810.9503437500007,"end":2814.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2815.3209687500002,"end":2816.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2816.9072187500005,"end":2831.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2831.5378437500003,"end":2864.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2864.2078437500004,"end":2956.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2956.80096875,"end":2971.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2972.4609687500006,"end":3004.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3005.5359687500004,"end":3013.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3013.95659375,"end":3023.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3023.77784375,"end":3059.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3059.63721875,"end":3105.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3106.4315937500005,"end":3106.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3107.19096875,"end":3108.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3108.8447187500005,"end":3114.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3115.5947187500005,"end":3133.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3134.66346875,"end":3165.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3166.3884687500004,"end":3201.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":3202.4503437500007,"end":3213.8409687500007,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3223.3415937500004,"end":3225.2147187500004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3225.4509687500004,"end":3238.49534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3240.92534375,"end":3252.6534687500007,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3253.09221875,"end":3265.2422187500006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3267.97596875,"end":3270.1865937500006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3270.9628437500005,"end":3276.8184687500006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3279.3834687500002,"end":3292.7653437500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3293.77784375,"end":3314.43284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3314.8209687500002,"end":3368.6015937500006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3373.79909375,"end":3374.8622187500005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3374.96346875,"end":3407.5322187500005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3407.8865937500004,"end":3449.6015937500006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3450.78284375,"end":3462.08909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3463.2872187500006,"end":3521.0672187500004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3521.6072187500004,"end":3533.6559687500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3535.3097187500007,"end":3556.4372187500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3556.5215937500006,"end":3564.2334687500006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3564.67221875,"end":3588.36471875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3588.78659375,"end":3593.3934687500005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3593.49471875,"end":3600.0084687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3602.3878437500007,"end":3646.9715937500005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3648.64221875,"end":3665.9053437500006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3667.2722187500003,"end":3677.44784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3678.81471875,"end":3688.4334687500004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"張處長信一","start":3689.3447187500005,"end":3690.3065937500005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":3691.58909375,"end":3726.80721875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":3727.0097187500005,"end":3742.1465937500006,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3747.64784375,"end":3750.4659687500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3750.71909375,"end":3753.2840937500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3754.76909375,"end":3755.91659375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3756.5240937500002,"end":3758.97096875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3759.71346875,"end":3760.79346875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3761.3503437500003,"end":3763.4765937500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3764.7253437500003,"end":3767.23971875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3767.7459687500004,"end":3771.57659375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3772.25159375,"end":3772.48784375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3772.8759687500005,"end":3773.87159375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3774.6140937500004,"end":3775.6603437500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3777.6515937500008,"end":3781.6678437500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3783.2372187500005,"end":3785.1778437500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3785.8359687500006,"end":3787.3378437500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3787.86096875,"end":3788.0465937500003,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3788.2322187500004,"end":3789.5822187500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3790.6959687500002,"end":3791.82659375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3792.61971875,"end":3795.3534687500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3795.7753437500005,"end":3796.8047187500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3797.98596875,"end":3799.25159375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3799.6397187500006,"end":3803.8078437500008,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3804.36471875,"end":3807.6384687500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3809.17409375,"end":3810.5240937500002,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3811.6715937500003,"end":3812.4140937500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3812.9034687500007,"end":3815.87346875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3816.2109687500006,"end":3817.1728437500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3817.8309687500005,"end":3819.0459687500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3819.24846875,"end":3820.04159375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3820.3115937500006,"end":3827.38221875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3828.5634687500005,"end":3829.2722187500003,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3829.79534375,"end":3830.4197187500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3831.0947187500005,"end":3833.5584687500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3833.71034375,"end":3834.80721875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3836.54534375,"end":3837.15284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3837.8953437500004,"end":3839.61659375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3840.1397187500006,"end":3840.27471875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3840.52784375,"end":3841.00034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3841.84409375,"end":3842.1815937500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3842.3165937500007,"end":3844.08846875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3845.9109687500004,"end":3848.4590937500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3849.85971875,"end":3852.3234687500008,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3853.3190937500003,"end":3855.05721875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3855.2090937500006,"end":3855.88409375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3856.7615937500004,"end":3859.5290937500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3861.26721875,"end":3861.90846875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3862.33034375,"end":3862.9040937500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3863.73096875,"end":3865.3172187500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3865.8572187500004,"end":3870.5822187500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3871.20659375,"end":3873.6872187500003,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3873.97409375,"end":3875.29034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3875.8640937500004,"end":3879.81284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3885.3815937500003,"end":3887.8622187500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3888.36846875,"end":3889.4147187500002,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3889.6847187500007,"end":3892.2497187500003,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3892.9247187500005,"end":3893.9034687500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3895.1522187500004,"end":3896.7384687500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3897.3797187500004,"end":3899.6072187500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3900.1472187500003,"end":3901.02471875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3902.2059687500005,"end":3903.2184687500003,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3903.7247187500006,"end":3904.6865937500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3905.2265937500006,"end":3912.7022187500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3913.57971875,"end":3914.6765937500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3914.9972187500007,"end":3917.5115937500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3918.1865937500006,"end":3918.69284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3919.53659375,"end":3922.3378437500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3923.70471875,"end":3932.24346875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3933.34034375,"end":3935.0615937500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3937.4072187500005,"end":3938.6053437500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3938.9597187500003,"end":3940.69784375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3940.8834687500002,"end":3942.7734687500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3943.8365937500002,"end":3945.92909375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3946.30034375,"end":3946.8234687500008,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3947.26221875,"end":3948.4940937500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3949.2872187500006,"end":3950.3165937500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3950.8565937500007,"end":3951.3290937500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3951.9197187500004,"end":3952.51034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3952.74659375,"end":3953.9953437500008,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3954.43409375,"end":3955.14284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3956.5772187500006,"end":3956.9822187500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3957.55596875,"end":3958.8047187500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3959.19284375,"end":3964.42409375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3965.5040937500007,"end":3966.6515937500008,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3967.25909375,"end":3967.79909375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3969.7059687500005,"end":3971.30909375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3971.84909375,"end":3972.38909375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3972.86159375,"end":3974.6503437500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3975.03846875,"end":3976.42221875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3976.60784375,"end":3977.7384687500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3977.99159375,"end":3979.9659687500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3981.06284375,"end":3984.2184687500003,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3985.16346875,"end":3997.39784375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":3997.93784375,"end":3999.38909375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4000.35096875,"end":4001.31284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4001.61659375,"end":4002.69659375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4002.8653437500006,"end":4004.1309687500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4004.6203437500008,"end":4005.8522187500002,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4006.2740937500002,"end":4007.21909375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4008.0459687500006,"end":4008.60284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4010.5265937500008,"end":4013.49659375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4014.1209687500004,"end":4015.42034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4016.3990937500002,"end":4019.09909375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4020.2634687500004,"end":4021.02284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4021.86659375,"end":4023.55409375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4024.22909375,"end":4025.6972187500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4026.69284375,"end":4028.3634687500007,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4028.6503437500005,"end":4031.6709687500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4032.2109687500006,"end":4032.9872187500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4035.1640937500006,"end":4035.6365937500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4036.1259687500005,"end":4038.25221875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4038.7584687500002,"end":4039.23096875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4040.0240937500002,"end":4043.14596875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4043.38221875,"end":4045.0528437500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4045.6434687500005,"end":4046.8415937500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4047.4659687500007,"end":4049.1872187500003,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4049.7272187500002,"end":4051.04346875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4051.34721875,"end":4054.3847187500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4054.6884687500005,"end":4055.43096875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4055.61659375,"end":4056.52784375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4057.23659375,"end":4059.97034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4061.4215937500003,"end":4063.58159375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4064.72909375,"end":4065.62346875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4066.3153437500005,"end":4069.0322187500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4069.06596875,"end":4072.2890937500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4073.6728437500005,"end":4076.2547187500004,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4077.2334687500006,"end":4078.1278437500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4078.75221875,"end":4080.08534375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4080.6759687500007,"end":4082.5153437500003,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4084.2872187500006,"end":4088.9278437500006,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4089.48471875,"end":4096.08284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4096.673468749999,"end":4098.02346875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4098.71534375,"end":4099.93034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4101.314093749999,"end":4102.107218749999,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4103.54159375,"end":4104.267218749999,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4105.38096875,"end":4106.1572187500005,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4106.8153437500005,"end":4108.18221875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4108.536593750001,"end":4115.72534375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4116.501593749999,"end":4117.311593750001,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4118.3240937499995,"end":4118.83034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4119.67409375,"end":4121.2772187499995,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4121.59784375,"end":4122.1209687499995,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4123.42034375,"end":4125.090968750001,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4125.58034375,"end":4126.592843750001,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4127.16659375,"end":4128.58409375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4128.921593749999,"end":4133.83221875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4135.013468749999,"end":4137.02159375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4139.670968750001,"end":4140.970343749999,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4141.98284375,"end":4143.29909375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4143.80534375,"end":4146.91034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4147.38284375,"end":4149.1209687499995,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4149.52596875,"end":4150.15034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4150.99409375,"end":4152.19221875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4153.8290937500005,"end":4155.48284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4156.32659375,"end":4157.22096875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4158.85784375,"end":4160.562218749999,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4161.20346875,"end":4162.030343750001,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4163.26221875,"end":4169.91096875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4171.159718749999,"end":4172.712218750001,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4173.825968749999,"end":4175.41221875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4175.63159375,"end":4177.8084687499995,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4179.090968750001,"end":4179.597218749999,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4179.934718750001,"end":4180.79534375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4182.85409375,"end":4187.78159375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4188.135968750001,"end":4191.966593749999,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4192.388468749999,"end":4194.90284375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4195.79721875,"end":4195.89846875,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4196.337218750001,"end":4196.843468749999,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4197.80534375,"end":4202.513468749999,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4202.91846875,"end":4209.85409375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4210.107218749999,"end":4212.25034375,"speaker_score":0.729},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":4213.870343750001,"end":4247.384093750001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4249.37534375,"end":4251.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4251.653468750001,"end":4254.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4264.343468749999,"end":4267.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4267.448468750001,"end":4268.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4268.41034375,"end":4274.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4274.35034375,"end":4276.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4276.71284375,"end":4277.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4277.55659375,"end":4283.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4283.96909375,"end":4284.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4285.015343749999,"end":4289.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4290.179093750001,"end":4305.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4305.602843750001,"end":4308.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4308.977843750001,"end":4321.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4322.292218750001,"end":4328.097218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4329.227843750001,"end":4331.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4331.97846875,"end":4345.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4345.56284375,"end":4347.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4348.499093750001,"end":4352.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4353.42659375,"end":4359.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4359.974093750001,"end":4363.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4364.41221875,"end":4367.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4367.63534375,"end":4372.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4372.967843750001,"end":4381.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4381.97909375,"end":4384.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4384.729718750001,"end":4386.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4387.00784375,"end":4388.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4388.93159375,"end":4393.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4394.618468750001,"end":4403.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4404.321593750001,"end":4408.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4408.65846875,"end":4410.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4411.32471875,"end":4416.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4416.57284375,"end":4418.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4418.530343750001,"end":4423.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4423.98096875,"end":4425.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4426.343468749999,"end":4426.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4428.77346875,"end":4433.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4433.21159375,"end":4435.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4436.36721875,"end":4438.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4438.442843750001,"end":4442.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4443.33659375,"end":4443.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4444.163468750001,"end":4449.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4450.05284375,"end":4452.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4452.95534375,"end":4459.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4459.907843749999,"end":4465.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4465.56096875,"end":4469.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4469.77971875,"end":4473.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4473.76221875,"end":4477.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4477.93034375,"end":4479.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4480.343468749999,"end":4486.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4487.279093749999,"end":4495.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4496.30721875,"end":4498.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4498.669718749999,"end":4502.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4503.175343749999,"end":4505.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4506.685343749999,"end":4509.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4510.077218750001,"end":4511.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4511.663468750001,"end":4514.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4515.07221875,"end":4517.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4517.654093749999,"end":4524.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4525.112843749999,"end":4528.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4528.589093750001,"end":4536.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4536.8240937499995,"end":4552.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4553.294093750001,"end":4564.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4564.870343750001,"end":4570.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4571.16471875,"end":4580.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4581.374093750001,"end":4582.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4582.28534375,"end":4583.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4583.5340937500005,"end":4593.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4594.2665937500005,"end":4601.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4601.759093750001,"end":4606.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4607.7665937500005,"end":4610.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4612.170968750001,"end":4615.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4616.50784375,"end":4619.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4619.9334687499995,"end":4622.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4622.97096875,"end":4623.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4625.63721875,"end":4630.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4630.9022187499995,"end":4634.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4635.25596875,"end":4636.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4637.247218750001,"end":4640.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4641.0272187499995,"end":4642.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4644.14909375,"end":4650.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4650.274718750001,"end":4655.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4655.45534375,"end":4665.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4666.03596875,"end":4669.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4669.680968750001,"end":4671.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4672.3134687500005,"end":4676.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4676.81909375,"end":4680.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4681.020968750001,"end":4689.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4690.2684687500005,"end":4691.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4692.85034375,"end":4694.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4694.655968749999,"end":4696.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4697.92971875,"end":4713.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4714.38284375,"end":4717.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4717.302218750001,"end":4718.517218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4718.77034375,"end":4724.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4724.08596875,"end":4727.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4728.20346875,"end":4736.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4736.624093750001,"end":4739.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4740.0497187500005,"end":4746.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4747.18784375,"end":4749.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":4750.5965937500005,"end":4755.62534375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":4755.979718750001,"end":4763.624093750001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4774.2215937500005,"end":4774.87971875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4775.385968750001,"end":4775.68971875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4776.179093750001,"end":4778.4403437500005,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4778.946593750001,"end":4782.034718750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4782.43971875,"end":4785.274718750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4785.81471875,"end":4790.82659375,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4791.43409375,"end":4794.083468750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4795.70346875,"end":4799.44971875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4799.78721875,"end":4802.470343749999,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4802.95971875,"end":4803.63471875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4804.19159375,"end":4820.69534375,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4821.25221875,"end":4821.977843750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4822.36596875,"end":4833.94221875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4834.397843750001,"end":4843.05471875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4843.32471875,"end":4880.77034375,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4881.3778437500005,"end":4906.3865937499995,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4907.095343749999,"end":4917.54096875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4918.13159375,"end":4928.64471875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4929.62346875,"end":4952.607218749999,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4953.889718750001,"end":4954.1259687500005,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4954.66596875,"end":4957.33221875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4958.02409375,"end":4965.43221875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4965.63471875,"end":4967.27159375,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4967.811593750001,"end":4969.262843750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4969.70159375,"end":4975.725968750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4976.468468749999,"end":4986.357218749999,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4987.116593750001,"end":4993.765343749999,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4993.967843750001,"end":4995.503468750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":4996.27971875,"end":5010.134093750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5010.269093750001,"end":5026.60409375,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5026.958468750001,"end":5046.3309687500005,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5046.921593749999,"end":5050.6678437499995,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5051.764718750001,"end":5068.8084687499995,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5070.15846875,"end":5127.14534375,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5127.685343749999,"end":5134.51971875,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5134.823468750001,"end":5140.628468750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5141.843468749999,"end":5182.5965937500005,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5182.866593750001,"end":5196.079718749999,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5196.450968749999,"end":5203.960343750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5204.26409375,"end":5255.564093749999,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5257.09971875,"end":5258.2978437500005,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","speaker_name":"林副局長故廷","start":5259.44534375,"end":5286.647843750001,"speaker_score":0.72},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":5288.1834687499995,"end":5307.184718750001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5324.54909375,"end":5327.654093749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5328.53159375,"end":5329.679093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5329.864718750001,"end":5330.92784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5331.16409375,"end":5332.51409375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5333.07096875,"end":5335.4334687499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5336.057843750001,"end":5338.859093749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5339.17971875,"end":5342.13284375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5342.30159375,"end":5344.022843750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5344.545968750001,"end":5346.317843750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5348.849093750001,"end":5349.33846875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5350.536593750001,"end":5351.194718750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5353.6415937500005,"end":5354.046593749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5354.2997187500005,"end":5359.17659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5360.6278437500005,"end":5361.640343749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5362.112843750001,"end":5363.12534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5363.952218750001,"end":5365.08284375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5365.538468750001,"end":5366.702843749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5367.24284375,"end":5368.50846875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5369.520968750001,"end":5373.368468750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5373.90846875,"end":5374.2459687499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5375.25846875,"end":5378.78534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5379.038468750001,"end":5379.595343749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5379.67971875,"end":5381.519093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5381.95784375,"end":5383.61159375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5383.98284375,"end":5386.22721875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5386.682843750001,"end":5388.8934687500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5389.247843749999,"end":5390.22659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5391.10409375,"end":5394.39471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5394.95159375,"end":5400.25034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5400.8240937499995,"end":5402.106593750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5402.62971875,"end":5404.09784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5404.55346875,"end":5405.78534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5406.62909375,"end":5409.649718750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5409.885968750001,"end":5419.167218750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5419.639718750001,"end":5435.02971875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5435.198468750001,"end":5437.358468750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5437.66221875,"end":5438.286593750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5439.14721875,"end":5440.37909375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5440.88534375,"end":5443.99034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5444.41221875,"end":5444.7665937500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5445.0028437500005,"end":5449.45784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5450.0653437500005,"end":5452.09034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5452.7147187499995,"end":5455.1278437500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5455.61721875,"end":5460.66284375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5461.388468749999,"end":5464.03784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5464.13909375,"end":5464.544093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5464.98284375,"end":5465.45534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5466.5184687500005,"end":5467.345343749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5467.46346875,"end":5468.49284375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5468.577218750001,"end":5469.977843750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5470.55159375,"end":5474.1122187500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5474.34846875,"end":5475.4959687499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5475.71534375,"end":5479.69784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5480.03534375,"end":5481.94221875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5482.296593749999,"end":5483.78159375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5484.186593750001,"end":5486.481593750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5486.903468750001,"end":5487.34221875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5487.696593750001,"end":5491.071593750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5491.493468750001,"end":5492.96159375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5493.231593750001,"end":5495.35784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5495.897843750001,"end":5496.38721875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5496.67409375,"end":5496.927218750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5497.09596875,"end":5501.31471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5501.77034375,"end":5505.314093749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5505.38159375,"end":5506.98471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5507.45721875,"end":5508.35159375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5508.7059687500005,"end":5509.14471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5510.20784375,"end":5510.69721875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5511.3553437499995,"end":5522.50971875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5522.847218750001,"end":5525.1590937500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5525.63159375,"end":5527.825343750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5528.26409375,"end":5528.567843750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5529.512843750001,"end":5531.11596875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5531.436593750001,"end":5533.66409375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5533.866593750001,"end":5535.975968750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5536.38096875,"end":5536.93784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5537.1572187500005,"end":5538.2372187500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5539.09784375,"end":5539.84034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5540.3465937500005,"end":5553.86346875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5554.200968749999,"end":5556.61409375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5557.87971875,"end":5559.14534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5559.685343749999,"end":5560.967843750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5561.659718750001,"end":5563.920968750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5564.12346875,"end":5570.147843750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5570.40096875,"end":5573.55659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5573.97846875,"end":5575.66596875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5576.189093749999,"end":5576.91471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5577.454718749999,"end":5580.30659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5580.779093749999,"end":5594.194718750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5594.245343750001,"end":5594.26221875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5594.31284375,"end":5601.079718749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5601.417218750001,"end":5606.88471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5607.171593749999,"end":5610.00659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5610.42846875,"end":5611.255343750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5611.74471875,"end":5612.77409375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5613.19596875,"end":5614.7147187499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5615.153468750001,"end":5615.49096875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5615.659718750001,"end":5627.96159375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5628.417218750001,"end":5628.82221875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5629.00784375,"end":5630.2059687500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5630.475968750001,"end":5632.65284375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5633.04096875,"end":5633.44596875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5633.81721875,"end":5636.702843749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5637.19221875,"end":5637.58034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5637.934718750001,"end":5639.2509687500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5639.655968749999,"end":5641.22534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5641.46159375,"end":5641.74846875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5642.08596875,"end":5642.59221875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5643.4022187499995,"end":5645.528468750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5645.984093749999,"end":5646.7772187499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5646.81096875,"end":5648.093468749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5648.515343749999,"end":5651.097218750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5651.53596875,"end":5672.342843750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5672.68034375,"end":5673.47346875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5673.827843749999,"end":5675.329718749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5675.83596875,"end":5677.624718749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5677.860968749999,"end":5679.34596875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5679.76784375,"end":5685.5897187499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5685.99471875,"end":5695.343468749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5695.731593750001,"end":5704.354718750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5704.74284375,"end":5706.19409375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5707.020968750001,"end":5707.628468750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5708.69159375,"end":5712.690968750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5713.23096875,"end":5718.71534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5718.90096875,"end":5722.107218749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5723.59221875,"end":5729.86971875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5730.544718749999,"end":5730.7978437500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5731.2197187500005,"end":5732.21534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5732.53596875,"end":5734.679093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5735.40471875,"end":5736.61971875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5737.446593750001,"end":5738.425343750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5738.77971875,"end":5740.80471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5739.06659375,"end":5739.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5741.36159375,"end":5749.83284375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5750.69346875,"end":5754.10221875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5754.70971875,"end":5758.52346875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5758.860968749999,"end":5759.18159375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5760.885968750001,"end":5761.64534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5762.16846875,"end":5765.661593750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5766.218468749999,"end":5769.171593749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5770.36971875,"end":5771.07846875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5771.618468750001,"end":5773.42409375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5773.89659375,"end":5777.67659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5778.132218750001,"end":5778.62159375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5778.975968750001,"end":5781.2372187500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5781.99659375,"end":5788.51034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5789.35409375,"end":5791.61534375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5792.07096875,"end":5804.50784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5804.997218750001,"end":5806.6678437499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5807.0897187499995,"end":5808.99659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5810.144093750001,"end":5812.65846875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5812.962218750001,"end":5814.075968749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5815.206593750001,"end":5820.70784375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5820.927218750001,"end":5823.23909375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5823.62721875,"end":5824.622843749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5824.639718750001,"end":5839.92846875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5840.13096875,"end":5842.5272187499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5844.43409375,"end":5848.3153437500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5849.54721875,"end":5850.8465937500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5851.57221875,"end":5851.859093749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5855.571593750001,"end":5856.600968750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5857.073468750001,"end":5858.474093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5858.997218750001,"end":5862.794093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5863.14846875,"end":5863.5028437500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5863.70534375,"end":5866.202843749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5866.489718750001,"end":5869.74659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5870.13471875,"end":5875.65284375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5876.007218750001,"end":5877.15471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5877.272843750001,"end":5878.8759687500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5879.16284375,"end":5881.60971875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5881.778468750001,"end":5882.16659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5882.436593750001,"end":5885.102843750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5885.811593750001,"end":5889.57471875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5889.7772187499995,"end":5897.843468749999,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5898.737843750001,"end":5899.75034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5899.93596875,"end":5900.40846875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5900.948468750001,"end":5902.450343750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5902.61909375,"end":5905.60596875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5906.010968750001,"end":5907.1415937500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5907.66471875,"end":5908.00221875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5908.491593750001,"end":5909.892218750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5910.685343749999,"end":5912.59221875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5913.132218750001,"end":5913.52034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5914.36409375,"end":5915.0897187499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5915.764718750001,"end":5917.33409375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":5917.587218750001,"end":5921.35034375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":5923.22346875,"end":5947.439093750001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":5947.810343749999,"end":5949.48096875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":5949.66659375,"end":5955.2353437500005,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":5955.38721875,"end":5958.94784375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":5959.04909375,"end":5961.934718750001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":5962.05284375,"end":5975.654093749999,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5976.7509687500005,"end":5977.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5986.23471875,"end":5986.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5986.42034375,"end":6004.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6005.74221875,"end":6016.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6017.50409375,"end":6019.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6020.08596875,"end":6042.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6043.45784375,"end":6064.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6066.6103437500005,"end":6072.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6072.972218750001,"end":6091.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6091.264718750001,"end":6095.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6095.63534375,"end":6097.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6098.45346875,"end":6103.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6103.954718750001,"end":6111.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6112.965968750001,"end":6129.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6130.684718750001,"end":6144.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6144.606593750001,"end":6163.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6164.249093750001,"end":6186.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6187.401593750001,"end":6221.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6223.24409375,"end":6246.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6246.7509687500005,"end":6247.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6247.544093750001,"end":6250.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6250.64909375,"end":6267.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6268.165343750001,"end":6325.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6327.2615937499995,"end":6373.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6373.920968750001,"end":6387.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6388.484093749999,"end":6403.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6403.38471875,"end":6422.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6422.58846875,"end":6429.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6429.794093750001,"end":6437.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6437.624093750001,"end":6473.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6473.2303437499995,"end":6502.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6503.419718749999,"end":6523.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6523.12971875,"end":6524.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6524.46284375,"end":6526.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6526.47096875,"end":6540.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":6542.282843750001,"end":6554.12909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":6554.41596875,"end":6571.88159375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6586.00596875,"end":6627.450968749999,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6627.48471875,"end":6688.31909375,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6688.352843750001,"end":6737.661593750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6738.032843750001,"end":6803.22096875,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6803.760968750001,"end":6814.32471875,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6814.69596875,"end":6885.0478437500005,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6885.58784375,"end":6930.829718750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6931.538468750001,"end":6985.116593750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳司長宜璇","start":6978.231593750001,"end":6978.29909375,"speaker_score":0.704},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6978.29909375,"end":6978.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳司長宜璇","start":6978.33284375,"end":6978.6365937499995,"speaker_score":0.704},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":6985.89284375,"end":7033.075343750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7033.27784375,"end":7058.53971875,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7059.16409375,"end":7062.67409375,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7063.534718750001,"end":7196.577218750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7196.982218749999,"end":7198.956593750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7199.22659375,"end":7269.47721875,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7270.118468750001,"end":7279.23096875,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7279.83846875,"end":7319.5115937499995,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7319.612843750001,"end":7322.73471875,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7323.24096875,"end":7331.40846875,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7331.96534375,"end":7337.196593750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7337.44971875,"end":7337.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7337.63534375,"end":7337.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7337.83784375,"end":7344.368468750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7344.4697187500005,"end":7345.347218750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7345.85346875,"end":7374.929093750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7374.96284375,"end":7374.979718750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7375.09784375,"end":7484.81909375,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7485.122843749999,"end":7489.155968750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"阮次長清華","start":7489.61159375,"end":7528.727843750001,"speaker_score":0.927},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":7528.491593750001,"end":7592.903468750001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7603.46721875,"end":7634.92221875,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7635.225968750001,"end":7660.639718750001,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7661.16284375,"end":7728.139718750001,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7729.33784375,"end":7765.112843750001,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7765.872218750001,"end":7821.137843750001,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7821.71159375,"end":7861.536593750001,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7862.245343750001,"end":7867.1728437500005,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7867.51034375,"end":7939.75221875,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":7940.5115937499995,"end":8002.679093750001,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":8003.843468750001,"end":8010.66096875,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":8011.08284375,"end":8012.061593750001,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":8012.567843750001,"end":8037.222218750001,"speaker_score":0.882},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":8039.1122187500005,"end":8051.17784375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8066.12909375,"end":8071.444718750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8072.08596875,"end":8076.72659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8077.04721875,"end":8078.009093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8078.565968750001,"end":8080.23659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8080.74284375,"end":8081.36721875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8082.10971875,"end":8093.2303437499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8093.702843750001,"end":8101.499093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8101.684718750001,"end":8114.3240937499995,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8115.15096875,"end":8125.866593750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8126.1365937499995,"end":8128.04346875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8128.212218750001,"end":8129.241593750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8129.663468750001,"end":8133.7978437500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8134.52346875,"end":8138.4384687500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8138.8603437500005,"end":8140.294718750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8140.919093750001,"end":8141.93159375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8142.28596875,"end":8143.97346875,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8145.81284375,"end":8147.804093750001,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8147.83784375,"end":8150.2509687500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8150.4872187500005,"end":8151.21284375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8151.9384687500005,"end":8166.2822187500005,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"嚴副總裁宗大","start":8167.00784375,"end":8172.30659375,"speaker_score":0.785},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":8174.9559687500005,"end":8179.022843750001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":8179.19159375,"end":8188.05096875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":8188.202843750001,"end":8195.745968750001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8206.79909375,"end":8210.562218750001,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8210.629718750002,"end":8210.69721875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8210.882843750001,"end":8218.76346875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8218.88159375,"end":8233.86659375,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8234.96346875,"end":8264.629718750002,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8265.49034375,"end":8277.89346875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8278.332218750002,"end":8296.169093750003,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8297.012843750003,"end":8317.465343750002,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8318.12346875,"end":8349.07221875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8349.64596875,"end":8383.83471875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8384.695343750001,"end":8405.87346875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8406.109718750002,"end":8419.15409375,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8419.79534375,"end":8420.149718750003,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8420.53784375,"end":8421.60096875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8421.90471875,"end":8428.519718750002,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8429.71784375,"end":8441.63159375,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8441.90159375,"end":8444.669093750003,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8444.93909375,"end":8451.300968750002,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8451.992843750002,"end":8475.85409375,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8475.972218750001,"end":8481.203468750002,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8481.59159375,"end":8482.28346875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8482.941593750002,"end":8487.88596875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8488.324718750002,"end":8496.45846875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8496.84659375,"end":8499.344093750002,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8499.985343750002,"end":8507.950343750003,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8509.097843750002,"end":8536.620968750001,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8536.85721875,"end":8562.574718750002,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8563.671593750001,"end":8570.99534375,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8571.09659375,"end":8589.254093750002,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","speaker_name":"莊董事長秋桃","start":8589.59159375,"end":8595.54846875,"speaker_score":0.724},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":8597.269718750002,"end":8610.415343750003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":8610.78659375,"end":8611.86659375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8625.906593750002,"end":8688.023468750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8688.124718750001,"end":8693.71034375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8693.96346875,"end":8696.22471875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8696.528468750003,"end":8697.827843750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8697.996593750002,"end":8703.29534375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8703.329093750002,"end":8703.91971875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8704.628468750001,"end":8724.355343750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8724.726593750001,"end":8725.519718750002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8725.992218750001,"end":8759.15159375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8759.387843750003,"end":8760.50159375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8760.77159375,"end":8782.624718750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8782.86096875,"end":8784.41346875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8784.582218750002,"end":8788.480343750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8789.05409375,"end":8794.133468750002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8795.179718750001,"end":8800.95096875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8801.659718750001,"end":8813.050343750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8814.14721875,"end":8832.456593750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8832.96284375,"end":8840.23596875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8840.759093750003,"end":8853.22971875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8853.58409375,"end":8873.61471875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8873.95221875,"end":8930.16284375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8930.331593750001,"end":8932.457843750002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8932.59284375,"end":8934.972218750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8935.17471875,"end":8940.625343750002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8941.45221875,"end":8942.633468750002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8942.785343750002,"end":8948.438468750002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8948.472218750001,"end":8948.489093750002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8948.52284375,"end":8949.315968750001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8949.46784375,"end":8962.69784375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8963.01846875,"end":8970.274718750003,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8970.64596875,"end":8983.67346875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","speaker_name":"陳處長美彤","start":8984.01096875,"end":8993.39346875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":8994.102218750002,"end":9041.95971875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9053.14784375,"end":9062.73284375,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9062.90159375,"end":9070.02284375,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9070.782218750002,"end":9071.28846875,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9071.38971875,"end":9118.133468750002,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9118.16721875,"end":9192.88971875,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9193.379093750002,"end":9207.773468750001,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9208.515968750002,"end":9391.761593750001,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9392.33534375,"end":9398.832218750002,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9399.574718750002,"end":9400.03034375,"speaker_score":0.75},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳司長宜璇","start":9400.03034375,"end":9464.070968750002,"speaker_score":0.704},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳司長宜璇","start":9464.324093750001,"end":9480.64221875,"speaker_score":0.704},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":9480.456593750001,"end":9503.828468750002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","speaker_name":"王副司長金蓉","start":9510.477218750002,"end":9544.41284375,"speaker_score":0.901},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","speaker_name":"王副司長金蓉","start":9544.969718750002,"end":9548.14221875,"speaker_score":0.901},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","speaker_name":"王副司長金蓉","start":9548.19284375,"end":9633.52971875,"speaker_score":0.901},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":9635.301593750002,"end":9642.65909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":9642.844718750002,"end":9643.840343750002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","speaker_name":"李委員彥秀","start":9644.32971875,"end":9697.38471875,"speaker_score":0.911}],"whisperx":[{"start":1652.19,"end":1655.27,"text":"好,我們開始今天的公聽會"},{"start":1658.13,"end":1662.21,"text":"各位在現場的學者專家、產業的代表、"},{"start":1662.21,"end":1665.25,"text":"行政機關的代表們大家早安"},{"start":1665.25,"end":1671.3300000000002,"text":"近期各大研究機構紛紛上修我們今年的經濟成長率"},{"start":1671.3300000000002,"end":1673.7700000000002,"text":"突破的是兩位數字"},{"start":1673.7700000000002,"end":1677.93,"text":"看起來這是一張非常漂亮的成績單"},{"start":1677.93,"end":1680.6100000000001,"text":"但是許多的國人不僅要問了"},{"start":1680.6100000000001,"end":1685.0900000000001,"text":"這張漂亮成績單到底是全民共享"},{"start":1685.0900000000001,"end":1688.0500000000002,"text":"還是少數的產業獨享"},{"start":1688.09,"end":1690.33,"text":"今天我們台灣真正面對的"},{"start":1690.33,"end":1692.21,"text":"不只是經濟好不好的問題"},{"start":1692.21,"end":1694.01,"text":"景氣好不好的問題"},{"start":1694.01,"end":1698.29,"text":"而是整個國家可以行經濟持續的擴大"},{"start":1698.29,"end":1700.49,"text":"最近我常常聽到一句話"},{"start":1700.49,"end":1702.29,"text":"產業界除了AI"},{"start":1702.92,"end":1705,"text":"其他都非常的悲哀"},{"start":1705,"end":1707.24,"text":"除了AI就是比哀"},{"start":1707.24,"end":1709.28,"text":"AI跟半導體一路向上"},{"start":1709.28,"end":1713.3600000000001,"text":"許多傳統產業卻仍舊在原地踏步"},{"start":1713.3600000000001,"end":1716.68,"text":"股市前一陣子雖然創了新高"},{"start":1716.68,"end":1720.68,"text":"並不代表整體薪資同步的創新高"},{"start":1720.68,"end":1727.48,"text":"GDP創新高也不代表每個家庭都感受到幸福"},{"start":1727.48,"end":1731.04,"text":"真正的經濟奇蹟不是只有少數的成功"},{"start":1731.08,"end":1734.8799999999999,"text":"而是多數國人的生活可以變得更好"},{"start":1734.8799999999999,"end":1741.24,"text":"如果台灣七成勞工感受不到國家經濟景氣的成長"},{"start":1741.24,"end":1742.96,"text":"再漂亮的數字"},{"start":1742.96,"end":1747.72,"text":"我都認為是我們的政府應該共同檢討的地方"},{"start":1747.72,"end":1750.2,"text":"政府不能只有公佈成長率"},{"start":1750.2,"end":1753.96,"text":"更要交出漂亮的共享成長率"},{"start":1753.96,"end":1756.8,"text":"這才是國人真正的幸福"},{"start":1756.8,"end":1758.84,"text":"所以今天張愛宮聽會"},{"start":1758.8799999999999,"end":1761.24,"text":"不是否定台灣的經濟成就"},{"start":1761.24,"end":1765.36,"text":"而是希望讓每一位努力工作的國人"},{"start":1765.36,"end":1769.72,"text":"都能夠共享到國家成長的果實"},{"start":1769.72,"end":1772.08,"text":"經濟發展不能只有速度"},{"start":1772.08,"end":1774.4399999999998,"text":"更要兼顧公平"},{"start":1774.4399999999998,"end":1776.36,"text":"也不能只有亮眼的數字"},{"start":1776.36,"end":1779.04,"text":"更要有人民真實的感受"},{"start":1779.04,"end":1782.04,"text":"期待我們今天行政部門"},{"start":1782.04,"end":1786.04,"text":"除了我們今天學者專家可以提出更多更好的意見"},{"start":1786.04,"end":1787.72,"text":"今天還有產業界的代表"},{"start":1787.76,"end":1791.52,"text":"我們行政部門也能夠提出具體的改革方案"},{"start":1791.52,"end":1794.72,"text":"讓台灣成長成為真正全民"},{"start":1794.72,"end":1800.08,"text":"台灣的經濟成長率改變成為全民共享的成長"},{"start":1800.08,"end":1804.44,"text":"那這個是我們今天辦理宮聽會主要的目的"},{"start":1804.44,"end":1810.32,"text":"容許我先介紹在場的委員跟學者專家代表跟政府機關代表"},{"start":1810.32,"end":1815.24,"text":"第一位在現場的是我們長期關注台灣經濟發展的賴世寶委員"},{"start":1817.74,"end":1819.6200000000001,"text":"以及今天在現場"},{"start":1821.05,"end":1822.25,"text":"簽字別老對不對"},{"start":1823.52,"end":1825.08,"text":"呃以及在現場"},{"start":1825.08,"end":1828.76,"text":"由我們淡江大學經濟學系的蔡明芳教授"},{"start":1828.76,"end":1829.52,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1832.07,"end":1834.87,"text":"台北市再生醫療工會的理事長"},{"start":1834.87,"end":1836.1499999999999,"text":"葉明工業理事長"},{"start":1836.1499999999999,"end":1836.87,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1839.1399999999999,"end":1843.6599999999999,"text":"中華民國全國商業總會的常務監事王全紅"},{"start":1843.6599999999999,"end":1844.62,"text":"王常務監事"},{"start":1844.62,"end":1845.4199999999998,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1847.1599999999999,"end":1850.9599999999998,"text":"中華經濟研究院的副研究員王國成"},{"start":1850.9599999999998,"end":1851.84,"text":"王副研究員"},{"start":1851.84,"end":1852.6,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1853.76,"end":1856.64,"text":"以及中華經濟研究院的所長"},{"start":1856.64,"end":1858.32,"text":"劉駿夢劉所長"},{"start":1858.32,"end":1859.04,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1859.04,"end":1859.96,"text":"劉夢俊"},{"start":1859.96,"end":1860.52,"text":"劉所長"},{"start":1860.52,"end":1861.24,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1863.76,"end":1864.2,"text":"好"},{"start":1864.2,"end":1867.16,"text":"由我介紹現在今天列席的機關代表"},{"start":1867.16,"end":1868.88,"text":"由我們財政部的政次"},{"start":1868.88,"end":1869.72,"text":"軟政次"},{"start":1870.41,"end":1871.21,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1871.95,"end":1875.51,"text":"以及我們財政部推動促餐司的副市長"},{"start":1875.51,"end":1876.63,"text":"同副市長"},{"start":1876.63,"end":1877.3100000000002,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1877.99,"end":1880.3500000000001,"text":"我們國庫署的副署長"},{"start":1880.3500000000001,"end":1881.03,"text":"林秀燕"},{"start":1881.03,"end":1881.71,"text":"林副署長"},{"start":1881.71,"end":1882.27,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1883.5,"end":1885.22,"text":"我們副稅署的副署長"},{"start":1885.22,"end":1885.94,"text":"李志忠"},{"start":1885.94,"end":1886.62,"text":"李副署長"},{"start":1886.62,"end":1887.38,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1888.79,"end":1890.51,"text":"我們清管會的副主委"},{"start":1890.51,"end":1891.51,"text":"陳彥良副主委"},{"start":1891.51,"end":1892.27,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1893.48,"end":1895.1200000000001,"text":"我們銀行局的副局長"},{"start":1895.1200000000001,"end":1895.6000000000001,"text":"王允忠"},{"start":1895.6000000000001,"end":1896.3200000000002,"text":"王副局長"},{"start":1896.3200000000002,"end":1897,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1898.59,"end":1900.3899999999999,"text":"我們政局局的副局長"},{"start":1900.3899999999999,"end":1901.6699999999998,"text":"黃仲豪"},{"start":1901.6699999999998,"end":1902.3899999999999,"text":"黃副局長"},{"start":1902.3899999999999,"end":1903.03,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1906.3899999999999,"end":1908.4699999999998,"text":"以及我們保險局的副局長"},{"start":1908.4699999999998,"end":1909.23,"text":"陳清源"},{"start":1909.23,"end":1909.9099999999999,"text":"陳副局長"},{"start":1909.9099999999999,"end":1910.55,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1911.7,"end":1914.22,"text":"我們今天的央行的副總裁"},{"start":1914.22,"end":1915.8200000000002,"text":"嚴鍾大嚴副總裁"},{"start":1915.8200000000002,"end":1916.5800000000002,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1917.31,"end":1918.83,"text":"我們國家發展委員會"},{"start":1918.83,"end":1920.71,"text":"產業發展處的副處長"},{"start":1920.71,"end":1921.47,"text":"陳瓊華"},{"start":1921.47,"end":1922.55,"text":"陳副處長"},{"start":1922.55,"end":1923.11,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1924.6499999999999,"end":1927.4099999999999,"text":"我們經濟部綜合規劃司的林司長"},{"start":1927.4099999999999,"end":1928.2099999999998,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1929.56,"end":1931.04,"text":"我們產業發展組的"},{"start":1931.04,"end":1933.36,"text":"產業政策組的副組長"},{"start":1933.36,"end":1934.12,"text":"盧副組長"},{"start":1934.12,"end":1934.84,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1936.29,"end":1939.21,"text":"我們商業發展署政策規劃組的"},{"start":1939.21,"end":1940.05,"text":"孫科長"},{"start":1940.05,"end":1940.61,"text":"孫大偉"},{"start":1940.61,"end":1941.13,"text":"孫科長"},{"start":1941.13,"end":1941.65,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1943.02,"end":1944.94,"text":"我們中小新創企業"},{"start":1944.94,"end":1948.46,"text":"綜屬綜合企劃組的組長"},{"start":1948.46,"end":1949.18,"text":"謝謝組長"},{"start":1949.18,"end":1949.74,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1951.58,"end":1952.98,"text":"衛福部的檢認記證"},{"start":1952.98,"end":1953.54,"text":"旅記證"},{"start":1953.54,"end":1954.22,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1956.01,"end":1958.45,"text":"我們食藥署的檢認記證"},{"start":1958.45,"end":1960.09,"text":"劉檢任記證"},{"start":1960.09,"end":1960.85,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1962.75,"end":1965.91,"text":"勞動部勞動條件司就業平等司的"},{"start":1965.91,"end":1967.3500000000001,"text":"副司長王副司長"},{"start":1967.3500000000001,"end":1968.03,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1970.29,"end":1971.85,"text":"以及我們淡江大學"},{"start":1971.85,"end":1973.8899999999999,"text":"產業經濟學系的副教授"},{"start":1973.8899999999999,"end":1975.61,"text":"莊孟翰莊副教授"},{"start":1975.61,"end":1976.05,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1976.05,"end":1976.81,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":1976.81,"end":1977.33,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1977.33,"end":1979.29,"text":"莊教授"},{"start":1979.29,"end":1979.8899999999999,"text":"好"},{"start":1979.8899999999999,"end":1980.8899999999999,"text":"我們今天"},{"start":1984.19,"end":1985.8700000000001,"text":"今天每位發言的時間"},{"start":1985.8700000000001,"end":1987.23,"text":"學者專家是8分鐘"},{"start":1987.23,"end":1989.71,"text":"結束前1分鐘會按鈴提醒"},{"start":1989.71,"end":1990.67,"text":"那原則上"},{"start":1990.67,"end":1993.15,"text":"依學者簽到的順序發言"},{"start":1993.15,"end":1994.5900000000001,"text":"若委員需要發言的話"},{"start":1994.5900000000001,"end":1996.03,"text":"請到主席來登記"},{"start":1996.03,"end":1998.23,"text":"每位委員是5分鐘"},{"start":1998.23,"end":1999.5900000000001,"text":"那全部發言完之後"},{"start":1999.5900000000001,"end":2002.3500000000001,"text":"採請我們行政機關就業管的權責"},{"start":2002.3500000000001,"end":2003.5900000000001,"text":"整體做回應"},{"start":2003.5900000000001,"end":2005.63,"text":"那我現在就先邀請第一位"},{"start":2005.63,"end":2007.0700000000002,"text":"我們賴世寶委員"},{"start":2016.28,"end":2017.72,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2017.72,"end":2018.8,"text":"以及各位先進"},{"start":2019.72,"end":2021.72,"text":"那麼我笨鳥先飛"},{"start":2021.72,"end":2024.4,"text":"因為我們立法院跑了跑去了"},{"start":2024.4,"end":2026.32,"text":"所以我先講一下"},{"start":2026.32,"end":2028.08,"text":"今天這個題目大家非常關心"},{"start":2028.08,"end":2031.48,"text":"不過這個財政部的阮次長"},{"start":2031.48,"end":2033.76,"text":"金管委副主委陳副主委"},{"start":2033.76,"end":2034.64,"text":"要特別關心"},{"start":2034.64,"end":2037.16,"text":"因為現在所有的媒體"},{"start":2037.16,"end":2038.8,"text":"還有路人甲路人椅"},{"start":2038.8,"end":2039.8,"text":"我的選民"},{"start":2039.8,"end":2041.52,"text":"大家都在關心"},{"start":2041.52,"end":2042.16,"text":"股市"},{"start":2042.16,"end":2045.24,"text":"台灣的股市兩天跌了3500點"},{"start":2045.24,"end":2047.56,"text":"到底國安基金要不要復盤"},{"start":2048.14,"end":2050.1,"text":"大家關心這個題目"},{"start":2050.1,"end":2051.66,"text":"當然這個題目跟今天有關係"},{"start":2051.66,"end":2053.14,"text":"等一下講什麼關係"},{"start":2053.14,"end":2055.5,"text":"但就我個人的觀點"},{"start":2055.5,"end":2057.74,"text":"也提供給各位參考"},{"start":2057.74,"end":2060.5,"text":"等一下這個阮次長拜託"},{"start":2060.5,"end":2062.1,"text":"我們就請主席"},{"start":2062.1,"end":2064.86,"text":"請他針對國安基金要不要復盤"},{"start":2064.86,"end":2065.7,"text":"這個事情"},{"start":2065.7,"end":2068.3399999999997,"text":"給我們一個明確的一個方向"},{"start":2068.3399999999997,"end":2069.9,"text":"我個人是覺得"},{"start":2069.9,"end":2072.06,"text":"國安基金的設計"},{"start":2072.06,"end":2075.14,"text":"是當這個市場失靈"},{"start":2075.14,"end":2077.54,"text":"當初在1999年"},{"start":2077.58,"end":2080.2599999999998,"text":"因為李前總統因應了"},{"start":2080.2599999999998,"end":2082.22,"text":"這個說德國之音"},{"start":2082.22,"end":2086.54,"text":"他發表兩岸市特殊的兩國論之前"},{"start":2086.54,"end":2088.1,"text":"他算到可能會緊張"},{"start":2088.66,"end":2091.8199999999997,"text":"就是非經濟因素造成"},{"start":2091.8199999999997,"end":2094.1,"text":"恐慌股市的暴跌"},{"start":2094.1,"end":2096.18,"text":"所以才成立國安基金"},{"start":2096.18,"end":2098.7799999999997,"text":"可是國安基金到目前為止"},{"start":2098.7799999999997,"end":2100.8599999999997,"text":"他所動用好幾次"},{"start":2100.8599999999997,"end":2103.22,"text":"每一次都沒有超過一千億"},{"start":2103.9,"end":2104.3,"text":"各位"},{"start":2105.86,"end":2107.78,"text":"最多的幾百億而已"},{"start":2107.78,"end":2109.78,"text":"有一次勉強到一千億左右"},{"start":2109.78,"end":2111.5,"text":"或者超過"},{"start":2111.5,"end":2114.02,"text":"所以國安基金其實是"},{"start":2114.02,"end":2116.06,"text":"Lip Service"},{"start":2116.06,"end":2117.46,"text":"LIP"},{"start":2117.46,"end":2118.54,"text":"嘴巴在服務"},{"start":2118.54,"end":2119.58,"text":"Lip Service"},{"start":2119.58,"end":2122.1400000000003,"text":"就是他是個信心的展示而已"},{"start":2122.1400000000003,"end":2124.06,"text":"說政府關心了"},{"start":2124.06,"end":2125.42,"text":"大家不用怕"},{"start":2125.42,"end":2126.94,"text":"但是要前提是什麼"},{"start":2126.94,"end":2129.2200000000003,"text":"前提是市場失靈"},{"start":2129.2200000000003,"end":2130.6600000000003,"text":"什麼叫市場失靈"},{"start":2130.6600000000003,"end":2131.86,"text":"我要賣賣不掉"},{"start":2132.92,"end":2134.08,"text":"沒有量"},{"start":2134.08,"end":2136.44,"text":"像古阪農前財政部長"},{"start":2136.44,"end":2139.92,"text":"宣布政客徵證所稅的時候"},{"start":2139.92,"end":2142.08,"text":"19天無量下跌"},{"start":2142.08,"end":2143.76,"text":"那時候市場失靈的"},{"start":2143.76,"end":2145.76,"text":"那時候國安基金進場"},{"start":2145.76,"end":2147.32,"text":"絕對是正確的"},{"start":2148.22,"end":2149.46,"text":"那無疑回廣"},{"start":2149.46,"end":2151.8999999999996,"text":"像我們現在國安基金老實講"},{"start":2151.8999999999996,"end":2153.3399999999997,"text":"挺尷尬的"},{"start":2153.3399999999997,"end":2155.3399999999997,"text":"因為量有"},{"start":2155.3399999999997,"end":2156.8199999999997,"text":"再低的話也8千多億"},{"start":2156.8199999999997,"end":2158.4199999999996,"text":"昨天還超過一兆"},{"start":2158.4199999999996,"end":2160.06,"text":"你說成交量有"},{"start":2160.06,"end":2161.58,"text":"但股市跌"},{"start":2161.58,"end":2163.06,"text":"老實講對我個人來講"},{"start":2163.06,"end":2164.8199999999997,"text":"我長期在財政委員會"},{"start":2164.8199999999997,"end":2166.3399999999997,"text":"股市我關心的是量"},{"start":2166.93,"end":2168.1299999999997,"text":"量就代表市場"},{"start":2169.07,"end":2171.4700000000003,"text":"就代表這裡有沒有市場"},{"start":2171.4700000000003,"end":2172.75,"text":"量夠大"},{"start":2172.75,"end":2174.27,"text":"就代表這裡有市場"},{"start":2174.27,"end":2176.7900000000004,"text":"其實要管的是管量"},{"start":2176.7900000000004,"end":2178.4300000000003,"text":"價的話尊重市場"},{"start":2178.4300000000003,"end":2180.03,"text":"那價當然影響很多"},{"start":2180.03,"end":2182.3500000000004,"text":"那政府了不起就是細心喊話"},{"start":2182.3500000000004,"end":2184.4700000000003,"text":"我只不過這裡剛好今天也來了"},{"start":2184.4700000000003,"end":2186.4300000000003,"text":"好不容易我們的主席英明"},{"start":2186.4300000000003,"end":2188.4700000000003,"text":"可以請到央行的副總裁"},{"start":2188.4700000000003,"end":2191.67,"text":"嚴中大也請你回去告訴總裁"},{"start":2191.67,"end":2194.55,"text":"總裁這個金口不能亂開"},{"start":2194.55,"end":2196.4300000000003,"text":"我們要開就請他來立法院"},{"start":2196.4300000000003,"end":2198.19,"text":"我們請主席多請他來"},{"start":2198.23,"end":2200.35,"text":"他不太願意來這個金口"},{"start":2200.35,"end":2201.75,"text":"南菜會"},{"start":2201.75,"end":2202.59,"text":"他一開口"},{"start":2203.15,"end":2204.35,"text":"各位記住"},{"start":2204.35,"end":2206.79,"text":"央行總裁一開口提醒你"},{"start":2206.79,"end":2208.3900000000003,"text":"沒多久股市一定不停"},{"start":2209.21,"end":2210.73,"text":"其實我看好幾次"},{"start":2210.73,"end":2212.81,"text":"你看他這一次就講了"},{"start":2212.81,"end":2215.05,"text":"他這次講前幾天講的"},{"start":2215.05,"end":2216.69,"text":"他很注意"},{"start":2216.69,"end":2217.9300000000003,"text":"不是AI的問題"},{"start":2217.9300000000003,"end":2219.73,"text":"是信用槓桿的問題"},{"start":2219.73,"end":2221.69,"text":"四代同堂六代同堂"},{"start":2221.69,"end":2222.81,"text":"他講了天龍碑"},{"start":2223.42,"end":2225.82,"text":"可是因為他叫央行總裁"},{"start":2225.82,"end":2227.3,"text":"他叫楊金龍"},{"start":2227.3,"end":2229.78,"text":"他出來就很強烈的"},{"start":2229.78,"end":2231.26,"text":"正式的"},{"start":2231.26,"end":2233.2200000000003,"text":"政策的暗示"},{"start":2233.2200000000003,"end":2233.82,"text":"那就是"},{"start":2234.61,"end":2235.77,"text":"資金要請所有人"},{"start":2235.77,"end":2236.8900000000003,"text":"他觀察最清楚"},{"start":2236.8900000000003,"end":2238.4900000000002,"text":"你為什麼請這麼多"},{"start":2238.4900000000002,"end":2240.61,"text":"股票市場就是急力雄散"},{"start":2241.39,"end":2242.87,"text":"他知道錢怎麼留"},{"start":2242.87,"end":2244.23,"text":"所以這一次給我們污名"},{"start":2244.23,"end":2246.6299999999997,"text":"只是大家學得不夠聰明"},{"start":2246.6299999999997,"end":2248.83,"text":"我在財務這麼久認識他"},{"start":2248.83,"end":2250.67,"text":"也是不夠聰明"},{"start":2250.67,"end":2251.6299999999997,"text":"以後就知道"},{"start":2251.6299999999997,"end":2253.15,"text":"只要總裁講話"},{"start":2253.15,"end":2254.99,"text":"差不多你就準備落跑"},{"start":2254.99,"end":2256.43,"text":"是沒什麼錯"},{"start":2256.43,"end":2258.1099999999997,"text":"看起來就是這樣子"},{"start":2258.1099999999997,"end":2259.35,"text":"對不起 給我幾分鐘"},{"start":2259.94,"end":2260.94,"text":"所以這是第一個"},{"start":2260.94,"end":2262.7000000000003,"text":"有提到大家所關心的"},{"start":2262.7000000000003,"end":2263.5,"text":"這個題目"},{"start":2263.5,"end":2264.78,"text":"第二個跟這個關於"},{"start":2264.78,"end":2265.38,"text":"有影響"},{"start":2266.5,"end":2268.58,"text":"我們的經濟現在政府號稱"},{"start":2268.58,"end":2270.5,"text":"經濟部最喜歡吹這個牛"},{"start":2270.5,"end":2273.06,"text":"財經部門最喜歡吹這個牛"},{"start":2273.06,"end":2274.58,"text":"我們的經濟成長率"},{"start":2274.58,"end":2276.62,"text":"GDP今年上漲10%"},{"start":2277.84,"end":2278.8,"text":"下期變成怎麼樣"},{"start":2278.8,"end":2279.4,"text":"以求保釋"},{"start":2279.4,"end":2280.6400000000003,"text":"股市現在以求保釋"},{"start":2280.6400000000003,"end":2281.5600000000004,"text":"好高"},{"start":2283.9,"end":2285.3,"text":"對岸中國大陸"},{"start":2285.3,"end":2286.46,"text":"中國大陸了不起5"},{"start":2286.46,"end":2287.38,"text":"甚至於不到5"},{"start":2288.3,"end":2289.86,"text":"那是老百姓要幹嗎"},{"start":2289.86,"end":2290.6200000000003,"text":"我去這個歷史"},{"start":2291.71,"end":2294.03,"text":"處境總署最近公佈的"},{"start":2294.03,"end":2296.83,"text":"我們的平均薪資是4.8萬"},{"start":2297.5299999999997,"end":2300.6099999999997,"text":"但是3分之2以上的人"},{"start":2300.6099999999997,"end":2303.6499999999996,"text":"將近7成領不到平均薪資"},{"start":2303.6499999999996,"end":2304.85,"text":"4.8萬"},{"start":2304.85,"end":2306.0899999999997,"text":"這就是可行經濟"},{"start":2306.75,"end":2308.39,"text":"而且蓋個數字"},{"start":2308.39,"end":2310.75,"text":"當GDP成長的時候"},{"start":2310.75,"end":2313.31,"text":"給勞工的那一部分"},{"start":2313.31,"end":2314.9900000000002,"text":"只有台灣第一50%"},{"start":2315.67,"end":2318.11,"text":"其他日本 歐盟 美國"},{"start":2319.2,"end":2320.92,"text":"都是高於50%"},{"start":2320.92,"end":2322,"text":"請再給我3分鐘"},{"start":2323.24,"end":2325.04,"text":"都高於50%"},{"start":2325.04,"end":2326.04,"text":"只有台灣"},{"start":2326.64,"end":2329.48,"text":"當我們的經濟成長的時候"},{"start":2329.48,"end":2331.2799999999997,"text":"最大的受益者是誰"},{"start":2331.2799999999997,"end":2332.16,"text":"就是資本家"},{"start":2333.09,"end":2335.09,"text":"相對的勞工"},{"start":2335.09,"end":2337.13,"text":"一般的受薪階級"},{"start":2337.13,"end":2339.77,"text":"沒有看到物價不斷的上漲"},{"start":2340.41,"end":2340.97,"text":"之後"},{"start":2342.66,"end":2344.06,"text":"他長得有限"},{"start":2344.06,"end":2346.54,"text":"但是物價漲得這麼的高"},{"start":2346.54,"end":2348.02,"text":"現在的便當"},{"start":2348.02,"end":2350.74,"text":"前一陣子不是就很強嗎"},{"start":2351.3,"end":2353.94,"text":"所以我們產業會的便當不好吃"},{"start":2353.94,"end":2354.7400000000002,"text":"產生委員會"},{"start":2356.87,"end":2358.27,"text":"我們的工作同仁"},{"start":2358.27,"end":2359.23,"text":"說不錯啊"},{"start":2359.23,"end":2359.75,"text":"100塊"},{"start":2359.75,"end":2361.31,"text":"你要說你到底是"},{"start":2361.31,"end":2362.31,"text":"有你買菜"},{"start":2362.31,"end":2363.67,"text":"我100塊怎麼買的"},{"start":2363.67,"end":2365.5499999999997,"text":"不知道可以吃的便當"},{"start":2365.5499999999997,"end":2366.5099999999998,"text":"有人這樣講"},{"start":2366.5099999999998,"end":2368.27,"text":"起碼112"},{"start":2368.98,"end":2370.46,"text":"所以這個你就發現"},{"start":2370.46,"end":2371.98,"text":"老百姓賺的錢是固定的"},{"start":2372.52,"end":2373.2,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":2374.2,"end":2375.04,"text":"物價一直漲"},{"start":2375.04,"end":2376.24,"text":"所以大家看到"},{"start":2376.24,"end":2377.6,"text":"有小白"},{"start":2377.6,"end":2378.64,"text":"你到捷運去"},{"start":2378.64,"end":2379.6,"text":"那個年輕人"},{"start":2379.6,"end":2381.6,"text":"前一陣子手機都在看股票"},{"start":2382.52,"end":2383.6,"text":"有人把工作辭掉"},{"start":2383.6,"end":2385.04,"text":"有人把房子去貸款"},{"start":2385.04,"end":2385.72,"text":"就是股票"},{"start":2385.72,"end":2387.2400000000002,"text":"所以會有四代同堂"},{"start":2387.2400000000002,"end":2388.52,"text":"六代同堂等等的"},{"start":2389.12,"end":2390.4,"text":"那這個一來"},{"start":2390.4,"end":2393.04,"text":"就造成K型更加的嚴重"},{"start":2393.04,"end":2393.7599999999998,"text":"那有人講說"},{"start":2393.7599999999998,"end":2394.4,"text":"那我們就"},{"start":2394.4,"end":2395.7999999999997,"text":"那採取稅制"},{"start":2395.7999999999997,"end":2396.88,"text":"其實"},{"start":2396.88,"end":2397.84,"text":"阮市長"},{"start":2397.84,"end":2398.48,"text":"回去"},{"start":2398.48,"end":2399.48,"text":"阮市長"},{"start":2399.48,"end":2400.04,"text":"這個"},{"start":2400.04,"end":2401.04,"text":"其實"},{"start":2401.04,"end":2401.88,"text":"真正能夠"},{"start":2402.68,"end":2403.8799999999997,"text":"稍微評論一下"},{"start":2403.8799999999997,"end":2404.3599999999997,"text":"評論"},{"start":2404.3599999999997,"end":2405.64,"text":"評論差距"},{"start":2405.64,"end":2406.68,"text":"就是財政部"},{"start":2406.68,"end":2407.56,"text":"稅制"},{"start":2408.45,"end":2409.0499999999997,"text":"但是我們現在"},{"start":2409.0499999999997,"end":2410.6499999999996,"text":"不可能克制索稅"},{"start":2410.6499999999996,"end":2411.5299999999997,"text":"我們現在政教稅"},{"start":2411.5299999999997,"end":2412.45,"text":"給你上下其中"},{"start":2412.45,"end":2413.21,"text":"政教稅"},{"start":2413.21,"end":2414.49,"text":"收入荷包滿滿"},{"start":2415.04,"end":2415.76,"text":"繼續教課"},{"start":2415.76,"end":2416.76,"text":"沒有問題"},{"start":2416.76,"end":2417.28,"text":"但是"},{"start":2417.99,"end":2420.1899999999996,"text":"應該認真去思考"},{"start":2420.1899999999996,"end":2422.1099999999997,"text":"學美國加州"},{"start":2422.1099999999997,"end":2424.95,"text":"資產超過一定的程度"},{"start":2424.95,"end":2426.71,"text":"我跟你扣5%的"},{"start":2426.71,"end":2427.79,"text":"護輪稅"},{"start":2427.79,"end":2428.71,"text":"或者看幾%"},{"start":2429.22,"end":2430.5,"text":"這個以前又有人提到啊"},{"start":2431.01,"end":2431.8900000000003,"text":"護輪稅"},{"start":2431.8900000000003,"end":2433.57,"text":"針對特別有錢的"},{"start":2433.57,"end":2434.65,"text":"我就扣你稅"},{"start":2434.65,"end":2436.13,"text":"他也不痛不癢"},{"start":2436.13,"end":2437.25,"text":"老實講"},{"start":2437.25,"end":2438.3300000000004,"text":"加州就這樣做"},{"start":2438.3300000000004,"end":2439.7700000000004,"text":"美國已經又這樣做了"},{"start":2439.7700000000004,"end":2443.25,"text":"這是我強調的第二點"},{"start":2443.25,"end":2444.8500000000004,"text":"那第三點"},{"start":2444.8500000000004,"end":2446.13,"text":"我要提到的"},{"start":2446.13,"end":2447.69,"text":"金管會要努力一下"},{"start":2448.48,"end":2449.6,"text":"我們現在所有的股票"},{"start":2449.6,"end":2450.36,"text":"在漲都是"},{"start":2450.97,"end":2452.29,"text":"AI平常"},{"start":2452.85,"end":2453.57,"text":"爆跌的時候"},{"start":2453.57,"end":2454.93,"text":"AI領頭爆跌"},{"start":2454.93,"end":2455.5299999999997,"text":"但是"},{"start":2455.5299999999997,"end":2457.09,"text":"傳統股沒有漲"},{"start":2457.09,"end":2457.85,"text":"跌有分"},{"start":2457.85,"end":2458.57,"text":"漲沒分"},{"start":2458.57,"end":2459.13,"text":"跌有分"},{"start":2459.72,"end":2461.3599999999997,"text":"你們體諒老半天"},{"start":2461.3599999999997,"end":2462.3199999999997,"text":"金管會主委"},{"start":2462.3199999999997,"end":2462.8399999999997,"text":"本主委"},{"start":2462.8399999999997,"end":2463.96,"text":"還有很多新人"},{"start":2463.96,"end":2465.2799999999997,"text":"有不願意去"},{"start":2466.5,"end":2467.78,"text":"同意計劃說"},{"start":2468.51,"end":2471.03,"text":"幫忙那些非AI股的"},{"start":2471.03,"end":2472.59,"text":"特別是小型股"},{"start":2472.59,"end":2473.3900000000003,"text":"到現在呢"},{"start":2473.3900000000003,"end":2475.07,"text":"也半年過去了"},{"start":2475.07,"end":2477.11,"text":"成效不怎麼樣"},{"start":2477.11,"end":2478.59,"text":"一片空白"},{"start":2479.41,"end":2480.25,"text":"我們看來是"},{"start":2480.25,"end":2482.69,"text":"AI在領漲領跌"},{"start":2482.69,"end":2483.73,"text":"其他的股"},{"start":2483.73,"end":2485.21,"text":"都在旁邊看"},{"start":2485.21,"end":2486.93,"text":"就是看了流口水漲"},{"start":2486.93,"end":2487.85,"text":"可是跌"},{"start":2487.85,"end":2488.49,"text":"他有分"},{"start":2488.49,"end":2488.85,"text":"漲"},{"start":2488.85,"end":2489.6099999999997,"text":"沒有分"},{"start":2489.6099999999997,"end":2490.29,"text":"現在問題是"},{"start":2490.29,"end":2491.29,"text":"整個社會"},{"start":2491.99,"end":2494.31,"text":"經濟社會是這樣的一個秩序"},{"start":2494.31,"end":2495.0299999999997,"text":"那就是"},{"start":2495.67,"end":2497.9900000000002,"text":"貧責越貧富之越富"},{"start":2498.63,"end":2499.87,"text":"產業也是一樣"},{"start":2500.59,"end":2501.59,"text":"跟得上"},{"start":2501.59,"end":2502.59,"text":"這個變車的"},{"start":2502.59,"end":2503.3500000000004,"text":"最近"},{"start":2503.3500000000004,"end":2504.3100000000004,"text":"我們要省那個"},{"start":2504.3100000000004,"end":2505.15,"text":"無人機"},{"start":2505.15,"end":2505.67,"text":"產業"},{"start":2505.67,"end":2505.9100000000003,"text":"哇"},{"start":2505.9100000000003,"end":2506.51,"text":"金光股"},{"start":2507.14,"end":2508.1,"text":"金盆面不怎麼樣"},{"start":2508.1,"end":2508.86,"text":"你去看"},{"start":2508.86,"end":2510.02,"text":"EPS"},{"start":2510.02,"end":2510.94,"text":"也沒有一塊錢"},{"start":2510.94,"end":2511.9,"text":"幾毛錢"},{"start":2511.9,"end":2512.94,"text":"漲到兩三百塊"},{"start":2512.94,"end":2513.66,"text":"這樣拼命漲"},{"start":2515.42,"end":2516.66,"text":"這都是你最發現的"},{"start":2517.55,"end":2518.59,"text":"台積電"},{"start":2518.59,"end":2519.8700000000003,"text":"基本面多好"},{"start":2519.8700000000003,"end":2521.15,"text":"可是股票漲跌"},{"start":2521.15,"end":2522.59,"text":"韓國的SK"},{"start":2522.59,"end":2523.11,"text":"什麼的"},{"start":2523.91,"end":2524.31,"text":"一樣"},{"start":2525.26,"end":2526.34,"text":"基本面非常好"},{"start":2527.21,"end":2528.4900000000002,"text":"結果他們的法輸化"},{"start":2528.4900000000002,"end":2529.81,"text":"通通被人發揮"},{"start":2529.81,"end":2531.05,"text":"這才是最大問題"},{"start":2531.05,"end":2531.61,"text":"所以"},{"start":2531.61,"end":2532.13,"text":"這裡面"},{"start":2532.13,"end":2533.09,"text":"今天主席"},{"start":2533.09,"end":2534.61,"text":"一門提這個題目"},{"start":2534.61,"end":2535.57,"text":"這是一個大哉"},{"start":2535.57,"end":2536.05,"text":"問"},{"start":2536.05,"end":2537.57,"text":"非常大的題目"},{"start":2537.57,"end":2538.65,"text":"但是我不認為今天"},{"start":2538.65,"end":2539.85,"text":"看完會有一個"},{"start":2539.85,"end":2541.81,"text":"好的一個答案"},{"start":2541.81,"end":2542.53,"text":"可能"},{"start":2542.53,"end":2543.89,"text":"最後答案就是"},{"start":2543.89,"end":2544.65,"text":"投資人"},{"start":2544.65,"end":2545.25,"text":"台灣人"},{"start":2545.97,"end":2548.0099999999998,"text":"各市自求多福"},{"start":2548.0099999999998,"end":2548.69,"text":"多看看"},{"start":2548.69,"end":2550.21,"text":"多聽聽"},{"start":2550.21,"end":2551.0099999999998,"text":"我就講了"},{"start":2551.0099999999998,"end":2551.73,"text":"各位"},{"start":2551.73,"end":2552.5299999999997,"text":"多聽聽"},{"start":2553.3,"end":2555.1400000000003,"text":"這個央行總裁"},{"start":2555.1400000000003,"end":2555.5,"text":"的"},{"start":2555.5,"end":2556.42,"text":"講的話"},{"start":2556.42,"end":2557.02,"text":"多聽聽"},{"start":2557.02,"end":2558.5800000000004,"text":"儘管外主委講的話"},{"start":2558.5800000000004,"end":2559.46,"text":"多聽聽"},{"start":2559.46,"end":2561.38,"text":"財政部這幾個三巨頭"},{"start":2561.38,"end":2562.42,"text":"他們講的話"},{"start":2562.42,"end":2563.6600000000003,"text":"其實都有意義的"},{"start":2563.6600000000003,"end":2565.6600000000003,"text":"只要他出來講說"},{"start":2565.6600000000003,"end":2566.7000000000003,"text":"要注意貸款"},{"start":2566.7000000000003,"end":2567.38,"text":"注意"},{"start":2567.38,"end":2568.1000000000004,"text":"這個"},{"start":2568.1000000000004,"end":2568.7400000000002,"text":"融資啊"},{"start":2568.7400000000002,"end":2569.7400000000002,"text":"什麼之類的"},{"start":2569.7400000000002,"end":2571.26,"text":"就代表某種程度"},{"start":2571.26,"end":2571.82,"text":"在限縮"},{"start":2571.82,"end":2573.46,"text":"或者他看到什麼東西"},{"start":2573.46,"end":2574.5800000000004,"text":"已經有看到了"},{"start":2574.5800000000004,"end":2576.0600000000004,"text":"只是提早跟你講"},{"start":2576.0600000000004,"end":2577.82,"text":"你要跟得上這個腳步了"},{"start":2577.82,"end":2579.38,"text":"要不然吃虧都是自己"},{"start":2579.38,"end":2580.38,"text":"我簡單的"},{"start":2580.38,"end":2581.0600000000004,"text":"這個報告"},{"start":2581.0600000000004,"end":2582.6600000000003,"text":"跟各位講報告"},{"start":2582.6600000000003,"end":2583.26,"text":"今天"},{"start":2583.3,"end":2584.0600000000004,"text":"題目排名的話"},{"start":2584.0600000000004,"end":2584.78,"text":"我就是"},{"start":2584.78,"end":2585.26,"text":"有感"},{"start":2585.26,"end":2585.86,"text":"阿巴拉"},{"start":2585.86,"end":2586.46,"text":"這個"},{"start":2586.46,"end":2587.42,"text":"找不到出口處"},{"start":2587.42,"end":2588.38,"text":"剛好今天"},{"start":2588.38,"end":2589.42,"text":"有這樣的出口"},{"start":2589.42,"end":2590.26,"text":"那就是"},{"start":2590.26,"end":2591.26,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":2591.26,"end":2591.7000000000003,"text":"這個"},{"start":2591.7000000000003,"end":2592.46,"text":"刷短"},{"start":2592.46,"end":2594.1400000000003,"text":"貧富差距"},{"start":2594.1400000000003,"end":2594.98,"text":"財政部"},{"start":2594.98,"end":2596.1800000000003,"text":"責無旁貸"},{"start":2596.7599999999998,"end":2597.72,"text":"財政部旁貸"},{"start":2597.72,"end":2599.16,"text":"要讓也有責任"},{"start":2599.16,"end":2599.6,"text":"老師啊"},{"start":2599.6,"end":2600.6,"text":"金管會"},{"start":2600.6,"end":2601.64,"text":"對於"},{"start":2601.64,"end":2602.6,"text":"發展"},{"start":2602.6,"end":2604.04,"text":"中小企業"},{"start":2604.04,"end":2605.24,"text":"比較沒有亮的"},{"start":2605.24,"end":2606.12,"text":"亮眼的"},{"start":2606.12,"end":2606.68,"text":"不錯"},{"start":2606.68,"end":2607.68,"text":"體質的"},{"start":2607.68,"end":2608.4399999999996,"text":"要怎麼樣"},{"start":2608.4399999999996,"end":2610.12,"text":"多介紹介紹"},{"start":2610.12,"end":2610.72,"text":"這個"},{"start":2610.72,"end":2611.6,"text":"都是"},{"start":2611.6,"end":2613.2799999999997,"text":"對我們投資者都有"},{"start":2613.2799999999997,"end":2614.16,"text":"有幫助"},{"start":2614.16,"end":2614.8799999999997,"text":"這是"},{"start":2614.8799999999997,"end":2615.3999999999996,"text":"簡單的"},{"start":2615.3999999999996,"end":2616.16,"text":"跟各位"},{"start":2616.16,"end":2616.7599999999998,"text":"做報告"},{"start":2616.7599999999998,"end":2617.9199999999996,"text":"也請各位指教"},{"start":2617.9199999999996,"end":2618.7999999999997,"text":"暫時各位時間"},{"start":2618.7999999999997,"end":2619.2799999999997,"text":"都"},{"start":2619.2799999999997,"end":2620.12,"text":"不好意思"},{"start":2620.12,"end":2620.8399999999997,"text":"請各位指教"},{"start":2620.8399999999997,"end":2621.2,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2623.86,"end":2625.54,"text":"謝謝賴世寶委員"},{"start":2625.54,"end":2626.26,"text":"那接下來"},{"start":2626.26,"end":2627.06,"text":"請第二位"},{"start":2627.06,"end":2629.42,"text":"我們蔡明芳蔡教授"},{"start":2629.42,"end":2630.06,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":2647.45,"end":2647.77,"text":"好"},{"start":2647.77,"end":2648.73,"text":"那個"},{"start":2648.73,"end":2649.97,"text":"主席還有"},{"start":2649.97,"end":2651.29,"text":"各位政府官員"},{"start":2651.29,"end":2653.1299999999997,"text":"還有與會的學者專家"},{"start":2653.1299999999997,"end":2654.5699999999997,"text":"大家好"},{"start":2654.5699999999997,"end":2655.77,"text":"剛以為來那個"},{"start":2655.77,"end":2657.0099999999998,"text":"股民的"},{"start":2657.0099999999998,"end":2657.97,"text":"發洩的"},{"start":2657.97,"end":2659.5699999999997,"text":"這個說明會"},{"start":2659.5699999999997,"end":2660.1299999999997,"text":"那個"},{"start":2660.1299999999997,"end":2661.0899999999997,"text":"我想今天主題"},{"start":2661.0899999999997,"end":2663.73,"text":"還是回到這個K型經濟"},{"start":2663.73,"end":2664.93,"text":"那K型經濟"},{"start":2664.93,"end":2666.77,"text":"這個問題"},{"start":2666.77,"end":2667.5299999999997,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":2668.16,"end":2668.7599999999998,"text":"這個問題"},{"start":2668.7599999999998,"end":2670.52,"text":"大家這樣反應其實"},{"start":2670.52,"end":2671.7999999999997,"text":"是蠻有問題的"},{"start":2671.7999999999997,"end":2672.3199999999997,"text":"就是"},{"start":2672.3199999999997,"end":2675.52,"text":"顯示其實大家對於整個經濟成長"},{"start":2675.52,"end":2677.12,"text":"其實不是那麼瞭解"},{"start":2677.12,"end":2678.2,"text":"所以我想"},{"start":2678.2,"end":2679.48,"text":"今天開這個公聽會"},{"start":2679.48,"end":2681.7999999999997,"text":"其實真的是蠻適合的"},{"start":2681.7999999999997,"end":2683.08,"text":"我想你自己"},{"start":2683.08,"end":2685,"text":"在考試的過程裡面"},{"start":2685,"end":2686.72,"text":"你自己的家庭裡面"},{"start":2686.72,"end":2688.3199999999997,"text":"一定都會有人發展好"},{"start":2688.3199999999997,"end":2689.64,"text":"發展不好"},{"start":2689.64,"end":2691.92,"text":"那有時候就必須要在家庭裡面"},{"start":2691.92,"end":2693.96,"text":"或透過你在考試裡面"},{"start":2693.96,"end":2696.4,"text":"你科目好的去就不好的科目"},{"start":2696.4,"end":2697.7999999999997,"text":"你所得高一點的"},{"start":2697.8,"end":2699.92,"text":"去幫助所得低一點的人"},{"start":2699.92,"end":2701.1200000000003,"text":"所以一個國家裡面"},{"start":2701.1200000000003,"end":2702.84,"text":"他本來就會有K型經濟"},{"start":2702.84,"end":2704.1200000000003,"text":"為什麼會有K型經濟"},{"start":2704.1200000000003,"end":2705.2400000000002,"text":"因為每個廠商"},{"start":2705.2400000000002,"end":2706.2400000000002,"text":"不同的產業"},{"start":2706.2400000000002,"end":2707.2400000000002,"text":"不同的廠商"},{"start":2707.2400000000002,"end":2709.32,"text":"那他們的表現都有可能會不一樣"},{"start":2709.32,"end":2712.4,"text":"那自然就會產生現在大家關心的K型"},{"start":2712.4,"end":2714.2000000000003,"text":"那同樣一個產業裡面"},{"start":2714.2000000000003,"end":2715.84,"text":"廠商表現會不一樣"},{"start":2715.84,"end":2717.44,"text":"同樣一個國家裡面"},{"start":2717.44,"end":2720,"text":"那這個不同產業的表現會不一樣"},{"start":2720,"end":2722.8,"text":"所以怎麼可能不會產生K型經濟呢"},{"start":2722.8,"end":2724.76,"text":"那我們都很關心就是說"},{"start":2724.76,"end":2725.7200000000003,"text":"所謂的國際貿易"},{"start":2725.7599999999998,"end":2728.08,"text":"國際貿易不就是要用比較利益嗎"},{"start":2728.08,"end":2729.2799999999997,"text":"大家在學比較利益"},{"start":2729.2799999999997,"end":2730.3599999999997,"text":"在談FDA的時候"},{"start":2730.3599999999997,"end":2732.9599999999996,"text":"都一直不斷的在強調比較利益的重要性"},{"start":2732.9599999999996,"end":2734.3599999999997,"text":"那談到K型經濟的時候"},{"start":2734.3599999999997,"end":2736.08,"text":"完全把比較利益忘記了"},{"start":2736.08,"end":2737.2799999999997,"text":"這蠻奇怪的"},{"start":2737.2799999999997,"end":2739.9599999999996,"text":"那乾脆台灣就都不要去自由貿易"},{"start":2739.9599999999996,"end":2741.56,"text":"讓大家都變成什麼"},{"start":2741.56,"end":2742.48,"text":"絕對不是K型"},{"start":2742.48,"end":2743.8799999999997,"text":"等一下我會秀給大家看"},{"start":2743.8799999999997,"end":2747.3599999999997,"text":"所以K型其實是普遍存在的現象"},{"start":2747.3599999999997,"end":2749.48,"text":"那把這個議題一直不斷拿來講"},{"start":2749.48,"end":2750.72,"text":"其實是多講的"},{"start":2750.72,"end":2752.04,"text":"如果你真的有心"},{"start":2752.04,"end":2754,"text":"對這個議題有感興趣的話"},{"start":2754.04,"end":2756.76,"text":"大家應該提出一些對方跟解方"},{"start":2756.76,"end":2759.72,"text":"那沒有K型經濟才需要擔憂"},{"start":2759.72,"end":2761.36,"text":"剛剛前面我也有提到"},{"start":2761.36,"end":2763.64,"text":"這個中國的經濟成長率"},{"start":2763.64,"end":2765.04,"text":"如果沒有K型"},{"start":2765.04,"end":2766.28,"text":"上面那個翹起來"},{"start":2766.28,"end":2768.24,"text":"就是大家看到經濟成長那一塊"},{"start":2768.24,"end":2770.96,"text":"把下面的慢慢把它拉上來"},{"start":2770.96,"end":2772.88,"text":"台灣就變成什麼L型"},{"start":2772.88,"end":2774.84,"text":"L型就是全部躺平"},{"start":2774.84,"end":2777.28,"text":"大家覺得右邊的L型比較好"},{"start":2777.28,"end":2779.16,"text":"還是左邊的K型比較好"},{"start":2779.16,"end":2780.8,"text":"那只是大家K的不一樣"},{"start":2781.41,"end":2783.45,"text":"如果台灣跟韓國來比"},{"start":2783.45,"end":2785.89,"text":"可能韓國他K的更少"},{"start":2785.89,"end":2789.0899999999997,"text":"因為他集中在更少數的產業的經濟成長"},{"start":2789.0899999999997,"end":2792.0899999999997,"text":"但是台灣這個產業的經濟成長"},{"start":2792.0899999999997,"end":2794.29,"text":"他是慢慢再往外面再擴散"},{"start":2794.29,"end":2795.65,"text":"我想這個大家也看到"},{"start":2795.65,"end":2798.5299999999997,"text":"很多媒體的報導應該都會清楚"},{"start":2798.5299999999997,"end":2801.41,"text":"那這個發展差異的過大"},{"start":2801.41,"end":2802.69,"text":"從經濟學的角度來看"},{"start":2802.69,"end":2804.0099999999998,"text":"你要達到均衡"},{"start":2804.0099999999998,"end":2805.5299999999997,"text":"其實真的是非常困難"},{"start":2806.47,"end":2808.31,"text":"那你絕對不可能說人家表現好"},{"start":2808.31,"end":2809.31,"text":"你表現不好"},{"start":2809.31,"end":2810.99,"text":"就要大家都要均衡"},{"start":2810.99,"end":2813.43,"text":"這個不是所謂的均衡"},{"start":2813.43,"end":2814.71,"text":"這個叫共產主義"},{"start":2815.36,"end":2816.96,"text":"變成吃大鍋飯"},{"start":2816.96,"end":2820.32,"text":"那對一個自由民主的國家來講"},{"start":2820.32,"end":2821.92,"text":"對一個市場經濟的國家來講"},{"start":2821.92,"end":2823.8,"text":"我們會不會關心貧富差距"},{"start":2823.8,"end":2824.6000000000004,"text":"當然會"},{"start":2824.6000000000004,"end":2826.2400000000002,"text":"為什麼要關心貧富差距"},{"start":2826.2400000000002,"end":2828.04,"text":"因為一旦這個社會的貧富差距"},{"start":2828.04,"end":2828.8,"text":"如果擴大"},{"start":2828.8,"end":2830.1600000000003,"text":"這個社會就會不穩定"},{"start":2830.1600000000003,"end":2831.6800000000003,"text":"這個社會一旦不穩定"},{"start":2831.6800000000003,"end":2833.84,"text":"這個社會的經濟環境會好嗎"},{"start":2833.84,"end":2835.2400000000002,"text":"當然就不會好"},{"start":2835.2400000000002,"end":2837.6000000000004,"text":"你在菲律賓也會看到很多有錢的人"},{"start":2837.6000000000004,"end":2839.04,"text":"但是他的社會的治安"},{"start":2839.04,"end":2841.56,"text":"可能就比台灣輸的非常非常的多"},{"start":2841.56,"end":2843.36,"text":"你在美國也一樣"},{"start":2843.4,"end":2845.92,"text":"你去一些已經沒有稅收的這個"},{"start":2845.92,"end":2846.92,"text":"City去住"},{"start":2846.92,"end":2850.1200000000003,"text":"那他的這個稅收的發展差異過大"},{"start":2850.1200000000003,"end":2851.32,"text":"經濟發展差異過大"},{"start":2851.32,"end":2852.8,"text":"這個風險都會增加"},{"start":2852.8,"end":2854.1200000000003,"text":"所以政府要不要注意"},{"start":2854.1200000000003,"end":2855.1600000000003,"text":"當然要"},{"start":2855.1600000000003,"end":2856.4,"text":"所以我在這裡呢"},{"start":2856.4,"end":2858.96,"text":"我是覺得政府其實還是有一些可以做"},{"start":2858.96,"end":2860.88,"text":"雖然目前已經做得非常多"},{"start":2860.88,"end":2862.56,"text":"但是我覺得不勞而獲的部分"},{"start":2862.56,"end":2864.32,"text":"真的要把它拿掉"},{"start":2864.32,"end":2865.44,"text":"不勞而獲是什麼"},{"start":2865.44,"end":2866.4,"text":"第一個"},{"start":2866.4,"end":2869.08,"text":"我非常care這個議題叫當沖降稅"},{"start":2869.08,"end":2871.88,"text":"那過去有委員在立法院質詢"},{"start":2871.92,"end":2873,"text":"金管會主委的時候"},{"start":2873,"end":2874.36,"text":"講到當沖降稅"},{"start":2874.36,"end":2875.56,"text":"我聽說差一點暈倒"},{"start":2875.56,"end":2878.12,"text":"因為這個主委說回去"},{"start":2878.12,"end":2879.92,"text":"副主委在這裡比較不好意思"},{"start":2879.92,"end":2881.04,"text":"就主委回去就是說"},{"start":2881.04,"end":2882.96,"text":"要請這個財政部研議"},{"start":2882.96,"end":2885.36,"text":"他的意思是說要把全部都降稅"},{"start":2885.36,"end":2887,"text":"如果全部都降稅"},{"start":2887,"end":2888.28,"text":"那我們今天"},{"start":2888.28,"end":2890.6,"text":"我們這些證交稅來幫助"},{"start":2890.6,"end":2892.2400000000002,"text":"這些小老百姓的錢哪裡來"},{"start":2892.2400000000002,"end":2893.4,"text":"全部都沒有"},{"start":2893.4,"end":2894.8,"text":"所以大家不要動不動"},{"start":2894.8,"end":2897.2400000000002,"text":"就去動財政部這個稅的腦筋"},{"start":2897.2400000000002,"end":2898.6400000000003,"text":"稅有其必要性"},{"start":2898.6400000000003,"end":2901.44,"text":"他要做的事情絕對不是來隨便降稅"},{"start":2901.48,"end":2903.84,"text":"那為什麼不應該鼓勵當沖降稅"},{"start":2903.84,"end":2905.28,"text":"當沖就是投機"},{"start":2905.28,"end":2906.92,"text":"那我們很喜歡填問卷"},{"start":2906.92,"end":2909.04,"text":"你去問每一個股民"},{"start":2909.04,"end":2911.2400000000002,"text":"假設你的股票持有很久"},{"start":2911.2400000000002,"end":2912.7200000000003,"text":"然後你沒有降稅"},{"start":2912.7200000000003,"end":2915.88,"text":"但是持有當天就可以來來回回"},{"start":2915.88,"end":2917.88,"text":"好多次人他反而可以降稅"},{"start":2917.88,"end":2919.4,"text":"大家覺得這個合理嗎"},{"start":2919.4,"end":2920.56,"text":"應該不合理吧"},{"start":2920.56,"end":2922.04,"text":"所以第一個我覺得"},{"start":2922.04,"end":2923.88,"text":"政府應該這個政策"},{"start":2923.88,"end":2925,"text":"兩萬點有需要"},{"start":2925,"end":2926.12,"text":"一萬點有需要"},{"start":2926.12,"end":2928.64,"text":"到四萬點的時候應該不需要了吧"},{"start":2928.64,"end":2931.2000000000003,"text":"我覺得政策要有持續性"},{"start":2931.2,"end":2932.72,"text":"但是政策也要有目的性"},{"start":2932.72,"end":2934.8399999999997,"text":"目的達到以後應該要退場"},{"start":2934.8399999999997,"end":2936.52,"text":"第二個就是打擊炒房"},{"start":2936.52,"end":2938.52,"text":"那這件事情我想我過去"},{"start":2938.52,"end":2940.2,"text":"在社會上也很常呼籲"},{"start":2940.2,"end":2941.4399999999996,"text":"那我覺得這個部分"},{"start":2941.4399999999996,"end":2942.6,"text":"選擇性的信用管制"},{"start":2942.6,"end":2943.68,"text":"養養這個部分"},{"start":2943.68,"end":2946.2799999999997,"text":"應該必須要再繼續堅持下去"},{"start":2946.2799999999997,"end":2947.4399999999996,"text":"那堅持下去"},{"start":2947.4399999999996,"end":2949.3599999999997,"text":"並不是說我都不讓你借錢"},{"start":2949.3599999999997,"end":2951.3599999999997,"text":"而是你沒有那麼必要的人"},{"start":2951.3599999999997,"end":2953.12,"text":"我不應該讓你借那麼多錢"},{"start":2953.12,"end":2955.8799999999997,"text":"我覺得這個是政府可以去努力的"},{"start":2955.8799999999997,"end":2957.72,"text":"所以我的結論就是"},{"start":2957.72,"end":2959.72,"text":"不要去補貼投機的行為"},{"start":2959.7599999999998,"end":2961.4399999999996,"text":"你應該要去"},{"start":2961.4399999999996,"end":2963.4399999999996,"text":"幫助這些努力工作的人"},{"start":2963.4399999999996,"end":2965.64,"text":"那而不是去對努力工作的人"},{"start":2965.64,"end":2967.24,"text":"反而更高"},{"start":2967.24,"end":2967.9599999999996,"text":"比如說"},{"start":2967.9599999999996,"end":2969.3999999999996,"text":"有人說我的所得稅的稅率"},{"start":2969.3999999999996,"end":2970.7599999999998,"text":"要再低"},{"start":2970.7599999999998,"end":2971.7599999999998,"text":"他努力工作"},{"start":2972.5,"end":2974.18,"text":"我一天斜槓人生"},{"start":2974.18,"end":2975.38,"text":"兼兩份薪水"},{"start":2975.38,"end":2976.66,"text":"我的所得比你高"},{"start":2976.66,"end":2978.62,"text":"然後你說政府要對這個所得高的人"},{"start":2978.62,"end":2979.58,"text":"課更高的稅"},{"start":2979.58,"end":2982.9,"text":"這個就是蠻奇怪的這種政策建議"},{"start":2982.9,"end":2984.9,"text":"所以我覺得政府在這個部分"},{"start":2984.9,"end":2986.3,"text":"第一個不饒而獲的部分"},{"start":2986.3,"end":2987.98,"text":"我覺得應該要把它拿掉"},{"start":2987.98,"end":2990.86,"text":"第二個就產業面的問題來看的話"},{"start":2990.86,"end":2993.1,"text":"我覺得我們在這裡有幾個問題"},{"start":2993.1,"end":2994.78,"text":"就是現在"},{"start":2994.78,"end":2996.9,"text":"其實所謂K型經濟"},{"start":2996.9,"end":2998.82,"text":"那個過去剛剛我講的"},{"start":2998.82,"end":3000.98,"text":"落在K下面的那一群"},{"start":3000.98,"end":3001.82,"text":"都是過去"},{"start":3001.82,"end":3004.18,"text":"寄望中國市場非常深的那一群"},{"start":3005.54,"end":3007.42,"text":"這一群他現在面對了"},{"start":3007.42,"end":3009.1,"text":"因為你沒有差異化"},{"start":3009.1,"end":3010.34,"text":"或你的差異化不夠大"},{"start":3010.34,"end":3012.06,"text":"當然就會面對低價競爭"},{"start":3012.06,"end":3014.02,"text":"面對低價競爭怎麼辦"},{"start":3014.02,"end":3016.18,"text":"那第一個就是擴展其他"},{"start":3016.18,"end":3018.42,"text":"除了中國以外的這個市場"},{"start":3018.42,"end":3020.42,"text":"但是你到其他中國以外的市場"},{"start":3020.42,"end":3022.06,"text":"一樣都面對中國的競爭"},{"start":3022.06,"end":3023.06,"text":"所以你就沒轍"},{"start":3023.82,"end":3025.9,"text":"那所以政府可以做的是什麼"},{"start":3025.9,"end":3027.6200000000003,"text":"當然避免低價傾銷"},{"start":3027.6200000000003,"end":3028.5800000000004,"text":"別人都在做了"},{"start":3028.5800000000004,"end":3029.5,"text":"你應該要做"},{"start":3029.5,"end":3031.78,"text":"那這一塊現在政府正在努力"},{"start":3031.78,"end":3033.94,"text":"那我覺得另外一個其實就是"},{"start":3033.94,"end":3035.78,"text":"小兒包裹的降稅"},{"start":3035.78,"end":3038.1000000000004,"text":"免稅這一塊應該要取消"},{"start":3038.1000000000004,"end":3040.5400000000004,"text":"雖然很多人說這是給台灣"},{"start":3040.5400000000004,"end":3041.34,"text":"可能年輕人"},{"start":3041.34,"end":3044.82,"text":"可能喜歡用這些包裹的人的一個小確性"},{"start":3044.82,"end":3047.3,"text":"但是這種小確性我寧願不要"},{"start":3047.3,"end":3049.2200000000003,"text":"我寧願的是比較高的所得"},{"start":3049.2200000000003,"end":3050.6600000000003,"text":"比較高的產業環境"},{"start":3050.6600000000003,"end":3053.2200000000003,"text":"那個才是我們一個國民所得"},{"start":3053.2599999999998,"end":3054.9399999999996,"text":"已經達到四萬美金的國家"},{"start":3054.9399999999996,"end":3056.14,"text":"應該要追求的"},{"start":3056.14,"end":3057.4199999999996,"text":"而不是鼓勵大家"},{"start":3057.4199999999996,"end":3058.9399999999996,"text":"再去消費廉價的商品"},{"start":3059.68,"end":3061.96,"text":"那接下來另外一個就AI轉型"},{"start":3061.96,"end":3063.64,"text":"我想這一塊大家聽很多"},{"start":3063.64,"end":3065.2,"text":"百工百業的AI負能"},{"start":3065.2,"end":3066.68,"text":"這個政府已經在做了"},{"start":3066.68,"end":3069.3199999999997,"text":"中小微企業接下來新的2.0計畫"},{"start":3069.3199999999997,"end":3070.64,"text":"也開始在進行"},{"start":3070.64,"end":3071.92,"text":"這個都是AI"},{"start":3071.92,"end":3073.7999999999997,"text":"但是你不能只有想AI"},{"start":3073.7999999999997,"end":3076.64,"text":"有一些產業他不需要AI的怎麼辦"},{"start":3076.64,"end":3079.3199999999997,"text":"我覺得這個部分其實是現在在政策上"},{"start":3079.3199999999997,"end":3080.64,"text":"比較少看到"},{"start":3080.64,"end":3082.96,"text":"那這個在經濟部的部分"},{"start":3082.96,"end":3085.56,"text":"當然你在推AI的政策之餘"},{"start":3085.56,"end":3086.48,"text":"你也要有"},{"start":3086.48,"end":3088.24,"text":"有一些產業他就不需要AI"},{"start":3088.2799999999997,"end":3090.3199999999997,"text":"但是他現在就活得沒那麼好"},{"start":3090.3199999999997,"end":3092.12,"text":"可是他還繼續願意活下去"},{"start":3092.12,"end":3093.4799999999996,"text":"請問你的政策是什麼"},{"start":3093.4799999999996,"end":3094.4799999999996,"text":"你又要拿出來說"},{"start":3094.4799999999996,"end":3096,"text":"我有AI要幫助你嗎"},{"start":3096,"end":3097.3999999999996,"text":"我就沒有要AI"},{"start":3097.3999999999996,"end":3098.3199999999997,"text":"那你要怎麼辦"},{"start":3098.3199999999997,"end":3100.68,"text":"我覺得這個部分是比較沒有看到的"},{"start":3100.68,"end":3103.3199999999997,"text":"那第三個是無法轉型的產業"},{"start":3103.3199999999997,"end":3104.3199999999997,"text":"我這裡寫"},{"start":3104.3199999999997,"end":3105.72,"text":"就是大家都不想面對"},{"start":3106.47,"end":3108.91,"text":"但是你永遠不想面對"},{"start":3108.91,"end":3111.6299999999997,"text":"永遠就會有一群人出來跟你喊K型經濟"},{"start":3111.6299999999997,"end":3113.39,"text":"但是他不知道他已經不再K型"},{"start":3113.39,"end":3114.6699999999996,"text":"他已經變成L型了"},{"start":3115.63,"end":3117.79,"text":"這一群L型的人在喊K型經濟"},{"start":3117.79,"end":3119.63,"text":"他以為自己還有獲利"},{"start":3119.63,"end":3121.31,"text":"但是他說靠政府補貼"},{"start":3121.31,"end":3122.4700000000003,"text":"要不要讓他退場"},{"start":3122.4700000000003,"end":3123.75,"text":"我覺得有序的退場"},{"start":3123.75,"end":3125.03,"text":"為什麼我強調有序"},{"start":3125.03,"end":3126.71,"text":"不是一次要讓他崩掉"},{"start":3126.71,"end":3128.8700000000003,"text":"而是讓他慢慢的減少"},{"start":3128.8700000000003,"end":3131.79,"text":"因為你的這個所得也都不夠高"},{"start":3131.79,"end":3133.9100000000003,"text":"那所以最後一個我想"},{"start":3134.7,"end":3137.1,"text":"經濟強化韌性的部分"},{"start":3137.1,"end":3139.22,"text":"其實公共服務很重要"},{"start":3139.22,"end":3140.7799999999997,"text":"絕對不是只有發現金"},{"start":3140.7799999999997,"end":3143.3399999999997,"text":"我想發現金很容易響"},{"start":3143.3399999999997,"end":3145.7,"text":"但是如果發現金就不用請到"},{"start":3145.7,"end":3149.1,"text":"我們在座在場的每一位到現場來"},{"start":3149.1,"end":3150.58,"text":"因為發現金誰不會"},{"start":3150.58,"end":3152.1,"text":"三歲小孩就會啊"},{"start":3152.1,"end":3153.3399999999997,"text":"那你要做的是什麼"},{"start":3153.3399999999997,"end":3154.62,"text":"第一個公共服務"},{"start":3154.62,"end":3155.94,"text":"台灣面對的問題"},{"start":3155.94,"end":3156.98,"text":"我都把它列在上面"},{"start":3156.98,"end":3158.18,"text":"我想大家都知道"},{"start":3158.18,"end":3161.3399999999997,"text":"那政府現在也有推出一些類似的政策"},{"start":3161.3399999999997,"end":3163.42,"text":"那公共投資剛剛提到說"},{"start":3163.42,"end":3165.54,"text":"到底這個經濟成長有沒有全面共享"},{"start":3166.39,"end":3168.27,"text":"如果沒有全面共享的時候"},{"start":3168.27,"end":3170.35,"text":"就不會有珍珠串的計畫"},{"start":3170.35,"end":3171.83,"text":"不是沒有全面共享"},{"start":3171.83,"end":3173.31,"text":"只是民眾享受到"},{"start":3173.31,"end":3174.67,"text":"但是他卻不知道"},{"start":3174.67,"end":3177.23,"text":"所以你的南電北送"},{"start":3177.23,"end":3180.15,"text":"你的北水南送這種珍珠串的計畫"},{"start":3180.15,"end":3181.6299999999997,"text":"你的交通建設的便利性"},{"start":3181.6299999999997,"end":3182.67,"text":"就好像很多人說"},{"start":3182.67,"end":3184.35,"text":"高雄人都喜歡騎摩托車"},{"start":3184.35,"end":3186.0699999999997,"text":"不是高雄人喜歡騎摩托車"},{"start":3186.0699999999997,"end":3188.1099999999997,"text":"是高雄人沒有好的捷運可以搭"},{"start":3188.1099999999997,"end":3189.83,"text":"他才必須要騎摩托車"},{"start":3189.83,"end":3191.83,"text":"所以好的政府應該是說"},{"start":3191.83,"end":3193.39,"text":"好好去把公共建設做好"},{"start":3193.39,"end":3195.15,"text":"而不是一直持續的發現金"},{"start":3195.19,"end":3199.27,"text":"這個對一個台灣要持續往先進國家去邁進"},{"start":3199.27,"end":3200.71,"text":"我想是不會有幫助的"},{"start":3200.71,"end":3201.71,"text":"以上發言謝謝"},{"start":3202.49,"end":3207.25,"text":"好謝謝蔡明芳蔡教授所做的具體的五個建議"},{"start":3207.25,"end":3210.29,"text":"接下來第二位我邀請我們葉明工"},{"start":3210.29,"end":3213.41,"text":"我們再生醫療工會的葉理事長"},{"start":3213.41,"end":3213.85,"text":"歡迎您"},{"start":3223.38,"end":3226.2200000000003,"text":"首先非常感謝李彥秀委員"},{"start":3226.2200000000003,"end":3228.3,"text":"召開這個K型經濟"},{"start":3228.3,"end":3231.94,"text":"在台灣現在經濟創造了新的這個價值之外"},{"start":3231.94,"end":3234.38,"text":"有考慮到其他90%"},{"start":3234.38,"end":3236.34,"text":"沒有在這一次這個"},{"start":3236.34,"end":3238.5,"text":"電子業紅利之下的一個情況"},{"start":3240.97,"end":3244.37,"text":"那其實整個經濟的成長各位可以看得到"},{"start":3244.37,"end":3246.45,"text":"我們是一路堅挺向上"},{"start":3246.45,"end":3249.0099999999998,"text":"其實主要是在這個電子業"},{"start":3249.0099999999998,"end":3251.0099999999998,"text":"但是其他的90%"},{"start":3251.0099999999998,"end":3253.1299999999997,"text":"他是在薪資成長上"},{"start":3253.1299999999997,"end":3255.1699999999996,"text":"跟動能是相對的弱勢的"},{"start":3255.1699999999996,"end":3258.41,"text":"所以我們今天這個會議非常重要的就是說"},{"start":3258.41,"end":3261.5699999999997,"text":"如果藉由行政部門來引導經濟成果"},{"start":3261.5699999999997,"end":3262.93,"text":"能夠均勻的分配"},{"start":3262.93,"end":3265.21,"text":"並維繫非半導體產業的動能"},{"start":3267.98,"end":3270.18,"text":"那經濟成長的果實目前"},{"start":3271,"end":3272.2400000000002,"text":"透過股市"},{"start":3272.2400000000002,"end":3274.08,"text":"但是最近股市跌得很兇"},{"start":3274.08,"end":3276.8,"text":"所以又有一批實際上是很慘的"},{"start":3279.42,"end":3281.9,"text":"那我今天主要是代表的是"},{"start":3281.9,"end":3284.54,"text":"台北再生醫療商業工會"},{"start":3284.54,"end":3288.1400000000003,"text":"那代表的是這個再生醫療相關的產業"},{"start":3288.1400000000003,"end":3289.86,"text":"那我提供的就是再生醫療"},{"start":3289.86,"end":3292.7400000000002,"text":"它是一個雙引擎的戰略跟產業平衡"},{"start":3294.78,"end":3296.42,"text":"但是再生醫療產業"},{"start":3296.42,"end":3299.42,"text":"它不只是這個附加價值高"},{"start":3299.42,"end":3302.42,"text":"而且跨域的整合度是極高的"},{"start":3302.42,"end":3305.42,"text":"它跨越了生技、醫療、精密製造、資訊"},{"start":3305.42,"end":3307.42,"text":"這都是我們台灣的強項"},{"start":3307.42,"end":3310.42,"text":"在醫療上我們是已經連續十年"},{"start":3310.42,"end":3311.42,"text":"在世界第一"},{"start":3311.42,"end":3312.42,"text":"那精密製造"},{"start":3312.42,"end":3315.42,"text":"在我們中部地區很多精密製造工業"},{"start":3315.42,"end":3317.34,"text":"我們資訊AI現在也在"},{"start":3317.34,"end":3319.34,"text":"我們中部地區很多精密製造工業"},{"start":3319.34,"end":3321.34,"text":"我們資訊AI現在也在"},{"start":3321.9,"end":3325.9,"text":"我們資訊AI現在也是在世界上都名列前茅"},{"start":3325.9,"end":3328.9,"text":"而且整個匯集的勞工的範圍是廣的"},{"start":3328.9,"end":3330.9,"text":"可以創造中高階的就業機會"},{"start":3330.9,"end":3332.9,"text":"不是剛剛那個專家講的"},{"start":3332.9,"end":3333.9,"text":"這個L型的底下"},{"start":3333.9,"end":3335.9,"text":"它是另外一個K"},{"start":3335.9,"end":3336.9,"text":"所以很多人都說"},{"start":3336.9,"end":3340.9,"text":"在台灣的這個生技再生醫療"},{"start":3340.9,"end":3342.9,"text":"是為了第二座護果神山"},{"start":3342.9,"end":3343.9,"text":"所以我在這裡要強調"},{"start":3343.9,"end":3347.9,"text":"其實政府這二、三十年來投資在這個"},{"start":3347.9,"end":3350.9,"text":"生物經濟其實投入了非常的多"},{"start":3351.46,"end":3354.46,"text":"在這個2024年的6月"},{"start":3354.46,"end":3357.46,"text":"立法院這邊也通過了再生醫療雙法"},{"start":3357.46,"end":3360.46,"text":"在2026年1月1號也正式實施"},{"start":3360.46,"end":3364.46,"text":"所以已經從這個學研進入到產業"},{"start":3364.46,"end":3366.46,"text":"所以我這邊的代表就是"},{"start":3366.46,"end":3368.46,"text":"我們產業再來需要什麼東西"},{"start":3374.36,"end":3376.36,"text":"目前我們評估有認為"},{"start":3376.36,"end":3378.36,"text":"遇到一些系統性的障礙"},{"start":3378.36,"end":3382.36,"text":"包括從研發、法規、臨床製造到市場"},{"start":3382.36,"end":3383.36,"text":"在法規的部分"},{"start":3383.36,"end":3385.36,"text":"雖然已經有再生雙法公布"},{"start":3385.36,"end":3387.36,"text":"但是有很多細則、細項執行的"},{"start":3387.36,"end":3389.36,"text":"執法等等的"},{"start":3389.36,"end":3391.36,"text":"可能需要更透明"},{"start":3391.36,"end":3393.36,"text":"今天來了有衛福部的一些長官"},{"start":3393.36,"end":3395.36,"text":"希望能夠帶回去"},{"start":3395.36,"end":3397.36,"text":"能夠加速把這一部分能夠釐清"},{"start":3397.36,"end":3400.36,"text":"這樣子每一個在從研發進入產程"},{"start":3400.36,"end":3402.36,"text":"進入臨床的時候"},{"start":3402.92,"end":3404.92,"text":"所以他才能明確化"},{"start":3404.92,"end":3406.92,"text":"資金投資者才願意導入"},{"start":3406.92,"end":3408.92,"text":"第二個"},{"start":3408.92,"end":3410.92,"text":"傳產其實我們台灣在再生醫療"},{"start":3410.92,"end":3412.92,"text":"慢慢已經形成一個ecosystem"},{"start":3412.92,"end":3418.92,"text":"從運輸、醫療、醫院、運輸、採樣到製造等等"},{"start":3418.92,"end":3420.92,"text":"它是一個大的生態圈"},{"start":3420.92,"end":3424.92,"text":"但是這中間如何把我們的傳統產業銜接上來"},{"start":3424.92,"end":3426.92,"text":"我想這一部分的話"},{"start":3426.92,"end":3428.92,"text":"就有賴我們經濟部跟其他的大家一起來努力"},{"start":3428.92,"end":3430.92,"text":"再來的話就是它本身再生醫療"},{"start":3431.48,"end":3435.48,"text":"在人的健康及預防有很大的價值"},{"start":3435.48,"end":3437.48,"text":"但是現在並沒有當入我們的醫保裡面"},{"start":3437.48,"end":3441.48,"text":"那以前跟時部長他有講過說"},{"start":3441.48,"end":3443.48,"text":"或許可以透過醫保加商保"},{"start":3443.48,"end":3445.48,"text":"所以這一部分"},{"start":3445.48,"end":3447.48,"text":"財政部是不是可以導引"},{"start":3447.48,"end":3449.48,"text":"某一些商業的保險納入這個體制內"},{"start":3451.34,"end":3453.34,"text":"所以整個摩擦點我們記憶體剖析"},{"start":3453.34,"end":3455.34,"text":"就是法規跟市場的不確定性"},{"start":3455.34,"end":3457.34,"text":"會凍結早期的資金"},{"start":3457.34,"end":3459.34,"text":"缺乏健保的支持"},{"start":3459.34,"end":3461.34,"text":"會摧毀整個商業化的規模"},{"start":3463.85,"end":3465.85,"text":"在傳統製造跟生醫工業內的斷橋上"},{"start":3465.85,"end":3469.85,"text":"其實我們台灣的一些在中部DCA傳統製造"},{"start":3469.85,"end":3471.85,"text":"有非常好的優勢"},{"start":3471.85,"end":3473.85,"text":"但是如果讓他們知道"},{"start":3473.85,"end":3475.85,"text":"把它銜接到再生醫療的產業"},{"start":3475.85,"end":3477.85,"text":"我們目前再生醫療"},{"start":3477.85,"end":3479.85,"text":"急需要的一些培養的設備"},{"start":3479.85,"end":3481.85,"text":"耗材"},{"start":3481.85,"end":3483.85,"text":"GDP的標準製造、場域、CDMO的產能"},{"start":3483.85,"end":3485.85,"text":"都是靠日本、美國等等來了"},{"start":3485.85,"end":3489.85,"text":"如何把它本土化、產業化、量能化"},{"start":3489.85,"end":3491.85,"text":"甚至以後未來能夠外銷到國際去"},{"start":3492.41,"end":3494.41,"text":"在我們在台灣"},{"start":3494.41,"end":3496.41,"text":"擁有非常好的、絕對的優勢"},{"start":3496.41,"end":3498.41,"text":"我們的醫療人才、生技人才"},{"start":3498.41,"end":3500.41,"text":"這麼多、這麼好"},{"start":3500.41,"end":3502.41,"text":"第二個我們整個福演包括"},{"start":3502.41,"end":3506.41,"text":"是北、從韓國、日本、台灣、南到東協"},{"start":3506.41,"end":3508.41,"text":"都是我們一個很大的市場"},{"start":3508.41,"end":3510.41,"text":"這是我們未來"},{"start":3510.41,"end":3512.41,"text":"是可以藉由再生醫療來發揮的"},{"start":3512.41,"end":3514.41,"text":"所以我們在台灣擁有"},{"start":3514.41,"end":3516.41,"text":"極佳的硬體的製造底蘊之下"},{"start":3516.41,"end":3518.41,"text":"藉由政府政策主動的造橋"},{"start":3518.41,"end":3520.41,"text":"如何把傳統產業"},{"start":3522.17,"end":3524.17,"text":"導入到再生醫療"},{"start":3524.17,"end":3526.17,"text":"產生富家、紅利的價值"},{"start":3526.17,"end":3528.17,"text":"可以值得在座的各行政長官們來思考"},{"start":3528.17,"end":3530.17,"text":"那這樣子就可以讓我們第二座的"},{"start":3530.17,"end":3532.17,"text":"富國神山更穩固"},{"start":3532.17,"end":3534.17,"text":"變成一個群山"},{"start":3535.87,"end":3537.87,"text":"再來的話最重要就是"},{"start":3537.87,"end":3539.87,"text":"跨部會的介入的框架"},{"start":3539.87,"end":3541.87,"text":"這邊提出了一個三大支柱"},{"start":3541.87,"end":3543.87,"text":"就是如何發展出一個包容性"},{"start":3543.87,"end":3545.87,"text":"經濟成長跟產業的韌性"},{"start":3545.87,"end":3547.87,"text":"剛剛講到的法規跟市場"},{"start":3547.87,"end":3549.87,"text":"就有賴於衛福部這邊"},{"start":3549.87,"end":3551.87,"text":"還有一些來讓它透明化"},{"start":3551.87,"end":3553.87,"text":"包括這個財政部等等的"},{"start":3553.87,"end":3555.87,"text":"如何給予更明確的租稅"},{"start":3555.87,"end":3557.87,"text":"還有健保的落地"},{"start":3557.87,"end":3559.87,"text":"再來的話就是資金跟人才"},{"start":3559.87,"end":3561.87,"text":"如何藉由國安衛基金的挹注"},{"start":3561.87,"end":3563.87,"text":"活絡整個資本市場"},{"start":3564.43,"end":3566.43,"text":"跨域的學程跟轉業"},{"start":3566.43,"end":3568.43,"text":"那目前我有在清華"},{"start":3568.43,"end":3572.43,"text":"做高階的藥品醫材的法規"},{"start":3572.43,"end":3574.43,"text":"但是除了這個之外"},{"start":3574.43,"end":3576.43,"text":"我們缺了很多的商業談判"},{"start":3576.43,"end":3578.43,"text":"國際領域的人才"},{"start":3578.43,"end":3580.43,"text":"所以這一部分"},{"start":3580.43,"end":3582.43,"text":"有賴於教育部等等的勞動部"},{"start":3582.43,"end":3584.43,"text":"多開發一些這些課程"},{"start":3584.43,"end":3586.43,"text":"培養這些人才"},{"start":3586.43,"end":3588.43,"text":"讓我們人才能夠更多元化"},{"start":3588.43,"end":3590.43,"text":"能夠更來滿足市場的需求"},{"start":3590.43,"end":3592.43,"text":"再來就是產業跨域的升級"},{"start":3592.99,"end":3594.99,"text":"經濟部這邊是不是盤點跟輔導"},{"start":3594.99,"end":3596.99,"text":"傳統製造產業"},{"start":3596.99,"end":3598.99,"text":"協助取得GDP打入CDMO的供應鏈"},{"start":3602.95,"end":3604.95,"text":"再來的話打通法規跟市場的認都兩脈"},{"start":3604.95,"end":3606.95,"text":"當然就是有賴於我們的"},{"start":3606.95,"end":3608.95,"text":"財政部跟經濟部的長官"},{"start":3608.95,"end":3610.95,"text":"能夠儘速來解釋相關的法令"},{"start":3610.95,"end":3612.95,"text":"使得一些模糊不清的"},{"start":3612.95,"end":3614.95,"text":"能夠更明確"},{"start":3614.95,"end":3616.95,"text":"使得資金能夠更容易導入來確認"},{"start":3616.95,"end":3618.95,"text":"再來就是要"},{"start":3618.95,"end":3620.95,"text":"期待於衛福部審查跟法規的透明化"},{"start":3620.95,"end":3622.95,"text":"這是目前很多參與者"},{"start":3622.95,"end":3624.95,"text":"就會被詬病的"},{"start":3624.95,"end":3626.95,"text":"那當然CDE的通冷也很辛苦"},{"start":3626.95,"end":3628.95,"text":"但是如何取得更多的信賴"},{"start":3628.95,"end":3630.95,"text":"公開揭露"},{"start":3631.5099999999998,"end":3633.5099999999998,"text":"這部分也是值得努力的"},{"start":3633.5099999999998,"end":3635.5099999999998,"text":"再來就是衛福部醫事司"},{"start":3635.5099999999998,"end":3637.5099999999998,"text":"或其他相關的"},{"start":3637.5099999999998,"end":3639.5099999999998,"text":"市場准入跟給付的部分"},{"start":3639.5099999999998,"end":3641.5099999999998,"text":"是否可以嘗試"},{"start":3641.5099999999998,"end":3643.5099999999998,"text":"建立沙盒驗證的方式"},{"start":3643.5099999999998,"end":3645.5099999999998,"text":"透過風險分攤來協議"},{"start":3649.2,"end":3651.2,"text":"所以整個資金的活水跟快的人才"},{"start":3651.2,"end":3653.2,"text":"才能夠讓再生醫療的生態系變好"},{"start":3653.2,"end":3655.2,"text":"藉由國安會、金管會跟央行的協助"},{"start":3655.2,"end":3657.2,"text":"我想勞動部、教育部的介入"},{"start":3657.2,"end":3659.2,"text":"能夠讓我們分散整個半導體類集中"},{"start":3659.2,"end":3661.2,"text":"創造中高階薪資的成長的機會"},{"start":3667.83,"end":3669.83,"text":"再來的話,驅動傳統產業跨一生"},{"start":3669.83,"end":3673.83,"text":"就是請經濟部盤點相關的來媒合"},{"start":3673.83,"end":3677.83,"text":"這樣子我們就可以打入整個國際的供應鏈"},{"start":3679.37,"end":3681.37,"text":"系統性的協同的部分"},{"start":3681.37,"end":3683.37,"text":"從法規市場資金人潮到產業跨一的整合"},{"start":3683.37,"end":3685.37,"text":"各部會我們這邊提供了一些可參考的"},{"start":3685.37,"end":3687.37,"text":"請各位長官參考"},{"start":3689.34,"end":3691.9,"text":"以上,謝謝"},{"start":3692.15,"end":3695.59,"text":"非常感謝我們再生醫療公會的"},{"start":3695.59,"end":3697.59,"text":"業理事長"},{"start":3697.59,"end":3699.59,"text":"再生生計醫療是蔡政府"},{"start":3699.59,"end":3701.59,"text":"八年任內非常重要的政策"},{"start":3701.59,"end":3703.59,"text":"每一個重要的政策"},{"start":3703.59,"end":3705.59,"text":"事實上都有政府"},{"start":3705.59,"end":3707.59,"text":"過去長期的資源"},{"start":3707.59,"end":3709.59,"text":"今天再生醫療公會提出來的問題"},{"start":3709.59,"end":3711.59,"text":"我們也希望包括"},{"start":3711.59,"end":3713.59,"text":"經濟部跟衛福部"},{"start":3713.59,"end":3715.59,"text":"在現階段"},{"start":3715.59,"end":3717.59,"text":"在這一任賴政府上任之後"},{"start":3717.59,"end":3719.59,"text":"我們通過再生醫療法"},{"start":3719.59,"end":3721.59,"text":"面臨的問題跟挑戰"},{"start":3721.59,"end":3723.59,"text":"我們也希望可以加入研究"},{"start":3723.59,"end":3725.59,"text":"等一下回應的時候"},{"start":3725.59,"end":3727.59,"text":"再請衛福部跟我們的經濟部"},{"start":3727.59,"end":3729.59,"text":"針對這一點"},{"start":3729.59,"end":3731.59,"text":"再做一下簡單的回應"},{"start":3731.59,"end":3733.59,"text":"接下來我要請第三位"},{"start":3733.59,"end":3735.59,"text":"我們中華民國全國商業總會常務監事"},{"start":3735.59,"end":3737.59,"text":"王全宏"},{"start":3737.59,"end":3739.59,"text":"王常務監事"},{"start":3739.59,"end":3741.59,"text":"歡迎您,謝謝"},{"start":3747.65,"end":3749.65,"text":"非常感謝李恩修委員"},{"start":3749.65,"end":3751.65,"text":"來主持這個"},{"start":3751.65,"end":3753.65,"text":"我們商業界非常"},{"start":3754.77,"end":3756.77,"text":"憂心的一件事"},{"start":3756.52,"end":3758.52,"text":"剛剛有學者專家講到K型失業"},{"start":3759.71,"end":3761.71,"text":"的情況"},{"start":3761.35,"end":3763.35,"text":"這個必然都存在"},{"start":3763.35,"end":3765.35,"text":"但是"},{"start":3764.73,"end":3766.73,"text":"最近從股票市場來看"},{"start":3767.75,"end":3771.75,"text":"傳統產業跟科技產業的落差有多少"},{"start":3772.25,"end":3774.25,"text":"最重要的是"},{"start":3774.61,"end":3776.61,"text":"要跟各位報告"},{"start":3777.65,"end":3781.65,"text":"我們要正視地方經濟對社會穩定的重要性"},{"start":3783.24,"end":3785.24,"text":"部分傳統產業雖然規模不大"},{"start":3785.84,"end":3787.84,"text":"但是我們要看的是"},{"start":3787.84,"end":3789.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3789.84,"end":3791.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3791.84,"end":3793.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3793.84,"end":3795.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3795.84,"end":3797.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3797.84,"end":3799.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3799.84,"end":3801.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3801.84,"end":3803.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3803.84,"end":3805.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3805.84,"end":3807.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3807.84,"end":3809.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3809.84,"end":3811.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3811.84,"end":3813.84,"text":"我們要看的是"},{"start":3787.86,"end":3789.86,"text":"我們的民生跟就業"},{"start":3790.7,"end":3792.7,"text":"一家中小企業"},{"start":3792.62,"end":3794.62,"text":"雖然他沒有採集見相關產業的產值"},{"start":3794.62,"end":3796.62,"text":"但可以養活"},{"start":3797.99,"end":3799.99,"text":"無數的家庭"},{"start":3799.99,"end":3801.99,"text":"一個地方的工廠"},{"start":3801.99,"end":3803.99,"text":"就是地方最重要就業的來源"},{"start":3804.36,"end":3806.36,"text":"如果這些產業逐漸被消失被淘汰"},{"start":3809.17,"end":3811.17,"text":"GDP影響可能不大"},{"start":3811.67,"end":3813.67,"text":"但直接衝擊了地方產業跟人口結構的問題"},{"start":3817.83,"end":3819.83,"text":"因此公共政策"},{"start":3819.83,"end":3821.83,"text":"應該從地方的經濟角度來持續"},{"start":3821.83,"end":3823.83,"text":"應該從地方的經濟角度來持續"},{"start":3823.83,"end":3825.83,"text":"這也是穩定台灣社會的最重要的力量"},{"start":3825.83,"end":3827.83,"text":"這也是穩定台灣社會的最重要的力量"},{"start":3828.56,"end":3830.56,"text":"我們從"},{"start":3829.8,"end":3831.8,"text":"這個"},{"start":3831.09,"end":3833.09,"text":"2025年中小企業白皮書裡面"},{"start":3833.09,"end":3835.09,"text":"已經明確"},{"start":3836.55,"end":3838.55,"text":"了解更多的數據"},{"start":3837.9,"end":3839.9,"text":"我國中小企業已經超過"},{"start":3840.14,"end":3842.14,"text":"一百"},{"start":3841.84,"end":3843.84,"text":"一七一萬家"},{"start":3845.91,"end":3847.91,"text":"佔全國企業的98.8%"},{"start":3849.86,"end":3851.86,"text":"那就業人口大概是"},{"start":3851.86,"end":3853.86,"text":"900萬"},{"start":3853.32,"end":3855.32,"text":"將近全國就業人口的8成"},{"start":3856.76,"end":3858.76,"text":"全年銷售額更超過31兆"},{"start":3861.27,"end":3863.27,"text":"台灣的就業"},{"start":3863.73,"end":3865.73,"text":"民生內需市場"},{"start":3865.86,"end":3867.86,"text":"都主要是由中小企業所持成的以上數字"},{"start":3867.86,"end":3869.86,"text":"都主要是由中小企業所持成的以上數字"},{"start":3871.21,"end":3873.21,"text":"所以我們為什麼"},{"start":3873.21,"end":3875.21,"text":"憂心K型產業"},{"start":3875.86,"end":3877.86,"text":"長期以來對台灣會造成"},{"start":3877.86,"end":3879.86,"text":"怎麼樣的衝擊"},{"start":3885.38,"end":3887.38,"text":"未來在國際的競爭上"},{"start":3888.37,"end":3890.37,"text":"關鍵在於誰擁有最完整"},{"start":3890.37,"end":3892.37,"text":"最任性的"},{"start":3892.92,"end":3894.92,"text":"產業生態"},{"start":3895.15,"end":3897.15,"text":"我們提出三個建議"},{"start":3897.38,"end":3899.38,"text":"政府應該把重心放在建立"},{"start":3900.15,"end":3902.15,"text":"公認"},{"start":3902.21,"end":3904.21,"text":"那我們很"},{"start":3903.72,"end":3905.72,"text":"清楚的看到"},{"start":3905.23,"end":3907.23,"text":"台灣AI能不能夠這樣蓬勃發展是"},{"start":3907.23,"end":3909.23,"text":"台積電以下數千家的"},{"start":3909.23,"end":3911.23,"text":"台積電以下數千家的"},{"start":3911.23,"end":3913.23,"text":"供應鏈的連結"},{"start":3913.58,"end":3915.58,"text":"才有今天晶片在全球占重要的地位"},{"start":3915.58,"end":3917.58,"text":"才有今天晶片在全球占重要的地位"},{"start":3918.19,"end":3920.19,"text":"但是"},{"start":3919.54,"end":3921.54,"text":"其他的產業不能應該這樣子打趴"},{"start":3923.7,"end":3925.7,"text":"我今天有提供書面資料大概可以看得到"},{"start":3925.7,"end":3927.7,"text":"我先從我們產業界"},{"start":3927.7,"end":3929.7,"text":"曾經"},{"start":3929.7,"end":3931.7,"text":"發生的一些成功經驗"},{"start":3933.34,"end":3935.34,"text":"給各單位做參考"},{"start":3937.41,"end":3939.41,"text":"我們的玻璃"},{"start":3939.41,"end":3941.41,"text":"就是你現在看的面板的玻璃"},{"start":3941.41,"end":3943.41,"text":"你桌上的杯子的玻璃"},{"start":3943.84,"end":3945.84,"text":"你們從來沒有注意到這個產業"},{"start":3945.84,"end":3947.84,"text":"但是1998年"},{"start":3947.84,"end":3949.84,"text":"但是1998年"},{"start":3949.29,"end":3951.29,"text":"28年前"},{"start":3950.86,"end":3952.86,"text":"再一"},{"start":3951.92,"end":3953.92,"text":"中部彰化有一個小公司"},{"start":3953.92,"end":3955.92,"text":"中部彰化有一個小公司"},{"start":3956.58,"end":3958.58,"text":"大家"},{"start":3957.56,"end":3959.56,"text":"大家上網看就"},{"start":3959.56,"end":3961.56,"text":"台灣玻璃屋就可以看到"},{"start":3961.56,"end":3963.56,"text":"它是一個觀光工廠"},{"start":3963.56,"end":3965.56,"text":"後台是一個"},{"start":3965.5,"end":3967.5,"text":"小心的"},{"start":3967.26,"end":3969.26,"text":"玻璃廠"},{"start":3969.71,"end":3971.71,"text":"全盛時期他"},{"start":3971.85,"end":3973.85,"text":"因為"},{"start":3973.85,"end":3975.85,"text":"因為"},{"start":3975.85,"end":3977.85,"text":"他的產能不夠"},{"start":3977.85,"end":3979.85,"text":"他要增加設備也不行"},{"start":3979.85,"end":3981.85,"text":"所以當時"},{"start":3981.06,"end":3983.06,"text":"他結合了中部就是"},{"start":3983.06,"end":3985.06,"text":"入港那一帶"},{"start":3985.16,"end":3987.16,"text":"入港"},{"start":3987.16,"end":3989.16,"text":"張濱和美"},{"start":3989.16,"end":3991.16,"text":"那一帶"},{"start":3991.16,"end":3993.16,"text":"把小型的加工廠"},{"start":3993.16,"end":3995.16,"text":"玻璃廠工藝"},{"start":3995.16,"end":3997.16,"text":"全部把它集合成上中下游"},{"start":3997.94,"end":3999.94,"text":"那他們的產品有"},{"start":4000.35,"end":4002.35,"text":"藝術的玻璃平板的玻璃"},{"start":4002.35,"end":4004.35,"text":"容器的玻璃"},{"start":4004.35,"end":4006.35,"text":"我們的器皿"},{"start":4006.35,"end":4008.35,"text":"還有我們的"},{"start":4008.05,"end":4010.05,"text":"鏡子"},{"start":4010.53,"end":4012.53,"text":"他這個群聚效益的成果"},{"start":4014.12,"end":4016.12,"text":"曾經締造了"},{"start":4016.4,"end":4018.4,"text":"我們的產值"},{"start":4018.4,"end":4020.4,"text":"200億"},{"start":4020.26,"end":4022.26,"text":"各位很難想像"},{"start":4021.87,"end":4023.87,"text":"就是你家裡看到的鏡子玻璃"},{"start":4024.23,"end":4026.23,"text":"台灣的產值200億"},{"start":4026.69,"end":4028.69,"text":"那這一家公司"},{"start":4028.69,"end":4030.69,"text":"他一年的銀額"},{"start":4030.69,"end":4032.69,"text":"從很低到"},{"start":4032.21,"end":4034.21,"text":"10億"},{"start":4035.16,"end":4037.16,"text":"因為大家都是中小企業"},{"start":4037.16,"end":4039.16,"text":"大家都是"},{"start":4038.76,"end":4040.76,"text":"投機"},{"start":4040.02,"end":4042.02,"text":"不願意安得在大家的下面"},{"start":4042.02,"end":4044.02,"text":"所以他們用團體"},{"start":4044.02,"end":4046.02,"text":"接單"},{"start":4045.64,"end":4047.64,"text":"分工生產"},{"start":4047.47,"end":4049.47,"text":"也就是當時就有這種"},{"start":4049.73,"end":4051.73,"text":"打群架的概念"},{"start":4051.73,"end":4053.73,"text":"整個玻璃團隊的外銷"},{"start":4053.73,"end":4055.73,"text":"訂單的當年"},{"start":4055.73,"end":4057.73,"text":"可以達到"},{"start":4057.24,"end":4059.24,"text":"7000萬美金"},{"start":4059.24,"end":4061.24,"text":"約台幣20億"},{"start":4061.42,"end":4063.42,"text":"當時的世界級的"},{"start":4064.73,"end":4066.73,"text":"這個家具廠"},{"start":4066.32,"end":4068.32,"text":"我們家具裡面門一打開"},{"start":4068.32,"end":4070.32,"text":"是不是有鏡子"},{"start":4070.32,"end":4072.32,"text":"或者是我們進到浴室"},{"start":4072.32,"end":4074.32,"text":"是不是有鏡子玻璃"},{"start":4073.67,"end":4075.67,"text":"在全世界這個大廠裡面"},{"start":4077.23,"end":4079.23,"text":"10片"},{"start":4078.75,"end":4080.75,"text":"的玻璃鏡子"},{"start":4080.68,"end":4082.68,"text":"有8片來自台灣"},{"start":4084.29,"end":4086.29,"text":"當年完全沒有"},{"start":4086.29,"end":4088.29,"text":"政府任何的補助跟協助"},{"start":4089.48,"end":4091.48,"text":"只是企業界同行"},{"start":4091.48,"end":4093.48,"text":"大家面臨的這痛點"},{"start":4093.48,"end":4095.48,"text":"有人願意跳出來"},{"start":4095.48,"end":4097.48,"text":"這樣一弄"},{"start":4096.67,"end":4098.67,"text":"造成這個產業呢"},{"start":4098.72,"end":4100.72,"text":"有這麼樣的成功的"},{"start":4101.31,"end":4103.31,"text":"那剛剛"},{"start":4103.54,"end":4105.54,"text":"這個"},{"start":4105.38,"end":4107.38,"text":"夜明宮"},{"start":4106.82,"end":4108.82,"text":"李市長也是署長"},{"start":4108.82,"end":4110.82,"text":"他講的生化產業"},{"start":4110.82,"end":4112.82,"text":"事實上在十幾年前商業總會"},{"start":4112.82,"end":4114.82,"text":"就一直提這是台灣的"},{"start":4114.82,"end":4116.82,"text":"第二座"},{"start":4116.5,"end":4118.5,"text":"富國神山"},{"start":4118.32,"end":4120.32,"text":"但是"},{"start":4119.67,"end":4121.67,"text":"我們的接觸跟了解"},{"start":4121.67,"end":4123.67,"text":"因為呢"},{"start":4123.42,"end":4125.42,"text":"他研發的東西有重疊"},{"start":4125.42,"end":4127.42,"text":"他的資金不夠"},{"start":4127.17,"end":4129.17,"text":"但是台灣人才夠"},{"start":4129.17,"end":4131.17,"text":"那政府未來如何來輔導"},{"start":4131.17,"end":4133.17,"text":"生技產業能夠集中"},{"start":4133.17,"end":4135.17,"text":"以及"},{"start":4135.01,"end":4137.01,"text":"互相重疊的"},{"start":4137.01,"end":4139.01,"text":"驅除掉"},{"start":4139.67,"end":4141.67,"text":"那農委會曾經"},{"start":4141.98,"end":4143.98,"text":"有個很好的政策"},{"start":4143.81,"end":4145.81,"text":"我們的豬肉要外銷"},{"start":4145.81,"end":4147.81,"text":"必須有一個非常"},{"start":4147.81,"end":4149.81,"text":"合乎國際"},{"start":4150.99,"end":4152.99,"text":"FDA的這些產業"},{"start":4153.83,"end":4155.83,"text":"農委會在南北"},{"start":4156.33,"end":4158.33,"text":"輔導了"},{"start":4158.86,"end":4160.86,"text":"中部或許有一家我沒有去"},{"start":4161.2,"end":4163.2,"text":"參觀過"},{"start":4163.26,"end":4165.26,"text":"所以台灣的豬肉外銷"},{"start":4165.26,"end":4167.26,"text":"現在都要經過這一家"},{"start":4167.26,"end":4169.26,"text":"從進去一直到出來"},{"start":4171.16,"end":4173.16,"text":"所以呢我們建議"},{"start":4173.83,"end":4175.83,"text":"未來政府呢"},{"start":4175.83,"end":4177.83,"text":"政策要從計劃導向"},{"start":4179.09,"end":4181.09,"text":"變成問題導向"},{"start":4182.85,"end":4184.85,"text":"我們建議各部會在規劃政策時"},{"start":4184.85,"end":4186.85,"text":"回到企業最迫切的"},{"start":4186.85,"end":4188.85,"text":"需要讓政策"},{"start":4188.85,"end":4190.85,"text":"真正能夠解決"},{"start":4190.85,"end":4192.85,"text":"經濟的痛點"},{"start":4192.85,"end":4194.85,"text":"而不完成這個一個行政計劃"},{"start":4195.8,"end":4197.8,"text":"所以"},{"start":4197.81,"end":4199.81,"text":"有關於剛剛幾位"},{"start":4199.81,"end":4201.81,"text":"學者專家的見解"},{"start":4201.81,"end":4203.81,"text":"我們都很認同"},{"start":4203.81,"end":4205.81,"text":"但是對KLA型世界"},{"start":4205.81,"end":4207.81,"text":"傳統產業目前"},{"start":4207.81,"end":4209.81,"text":"所面臨的很大的條件"},{"start":4209.81,"end":4211.81,"text":"更是我們所關心的"},{"start":4211.81,"end":4213.81,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4213.87,"end":4215.87,"text":"非常感謝我們"},{"start":4215.87,"end":4217.87,"text":"商總的常務監事"},{"start":4217.87,"end":4219.87,"text":"王全宏常務監事"},{"start":4219.87,"end":4221.87,"text":"在台灣有七早中小企業"},{"start":4221.87,"end":4223.87,"text":"佔了全台灣至少七成以上的"},{"start":4223.87,"end":4225.87,"text":"勞工喔"},{"start":4225.87,"end":4227.87,"text":"現在整體的環境影響對於"},{"start":4227.87,"end":4229.87,"text":"我們傳產業其實衝擊是非常大的"},{"start":4229.87,"end":4231.87,"text":"相對的也影響我們的勞工的"},{"start":4231.87,"end":4233.87,"text":"相關未來的發展跟生計"},{"start":4233.87,"end":4235.87,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":4235.87,"end":4237.87,"text":"也要請相關單位後續"},{"start":4237.87,"end":4239.87,"text":"負責關注跟研議"},{"start":4239.87,"end":4241.87,"text":"好接下來要請我們中華"},{"start":4241.87,"end":4243.87,"text":"經濟研究院的副研究員"},{"start":4243.87,"end":4245.87,"text":"王國成王副研究員"},{"start":4245.87,"end":4247.87,"text":"歡迎您謝謝"},{"start":4249.38,"end":4251.38,"text":"嗯..."},{"start":4251.65,"end":4253.65,"text":"下一節是"},{"start":4253.65,"end":4255.65,"text":"結案嘛,在那邊"},{"start":4264.34,"end":4266.34,"text":"感謝主席"},{"start":4266.34,"end":4268.34,"text":"感謝立院邀請"},{"start":4268.34,"end":4270.34,"text":"那我覺得這個題目當然很重要"},{"start":4270.34,"end":4272.34,"text":"那第一個要回應的是"},{"start":4272.34,"end":4274.34,"text":"民方老師有提到"},{"start":4274.34,"end":4276.34,"text":"就是我們除了"},{"start":4276.34,"end":4278.34,"text":"要平均之外"},{"start":4278.34,"end":4280.34,"text":"更重要可能是要"},{"start":4280.34,"end":4282.34,"text":"均富而不是"},{"start":4282.34,"end":4284.34,"text":"變成L型的均平"},{"start":4284.34,"end":4286.34,"text":"所以我們第一個這沒有印到"},{"start":4286.34,"end":4288.34,"text":"就是額外加的"},{"start":4288.34,"end":4290.34,"text":"就是匯成幾個觀點"},{"start":4290.34,"end":4292.34,"text":"第一個我覺得K型"},{"start":4292.34,"end":4294.34,"text":"經濟的成因有二"},{"start":4294.34,"end":4296.34,"text":"事實上各部會和剛才"},{"start":4296.34,"end":4298.34,"text":"幾位老師先進都有提到"},{"start":4298.34,"end":4300.34,"text":"在AI的浪潮"},{"start":4300.34,"end":4302.34,"text":"底下"},{"start":4302.34,"end":4304.34,"text":"那麼台灣的資通訊息本來就"},{"start":4304.34,"end":4306.34,"text":"在世界上"},{"start":4306.34,"end":4308.34,"text":"是有優勢的"},{"start":4308.98,"end":4310.98,"text":"而且這些資通訊息"},{"start":4310.98,"end":4312.98,"text":"事實上具有自然獨佔的特徵"},{"start":4312.98,"end":4314.98,"text":"比如說"},{"start":4314.98,"end":4316.98,"text":"像台積電"},{"start":4316.98,"end":4318.98,"text":"它南瓜世界第一"},{"start":4318.98,"end":4320.98,"text":"所以它就可以南瓜很大部分的訂單"},{"start":4322.29,"end":4324.29,"text":"所以導致這樣的產業是"},{"start":4324.29,"end":4326.29,"text":"只有少數關鍵的"},{"start":4326.29,"end":4328.29,"text":"廠商能夠獲利"},{"start":4329.23,"end":4331.23,"text":"那另外一個我要特別提出來的是"},{"start":4331.23,"end":4333.23,"text":"我們長期關注中國"},{"start":4333.23,"end":4335.23,"text":"可以看到產能過剩的"},{"start":4335.23,"end":4337.23,"text":"輸出"},{"start":4337.23,"end":4339.23,"text":"擠壓了各國傳產的"},{"start":4339.23,"end":4341.23,"text":"生存空間"},{"start":4341.23,"end":4343.23,"text":"所以一個K往上"},{"start":4343.23,"end":4345.23,"text":"的是因為AI"},{"start":4345.23,"end":4347.23,"text":"另外一個往下的其實"},{"start":4347.23,"end":4349.23,"text":"我們"},{"start":4348.5,"end":4350.5,"text":"必須關注的是中國的"},{"start":4350.5,"end":4352.5,"text":"紅色供應鏈"},{"start":4353.43,"end":4355.43,"text":"那另外一個我覺得比較麻煩的"},{"start":4355.43,"end":4357.43,"text":"延伸出來對於往下的"},{"start":4357.43,"end":4359.43,"text":"那一撇"},{"start":4359.97,"end":4361.97,"text":"第一個除了剛才說到的"},{"start":4361.97,"end":4363.97,"text":"紅色供應鏈之外"},{"start":4363.97,"end":4365.97,"text":"第二個"},{"start":4364.41,"end":4366.41,"text":"大量的高科技產品"},{"start":4366.41,"end":4368.41,"text":"蘇美"},{"start":4367.64,"end":4369.64,"text":"所以造成台美的"},{"start":4369.64,"end":4371.64,"text":"貿易順差不斷"},{"start":4371.64,"end":4373.64,"text":"擴大"},{"start":4372.97,"end":4374.97,"text":"所以未來"},{"start":4374.97,"end":4376.97,"text":"美國可能會要求"},{"start":4376.97,"end":4378.97,"text":"台灣輸入更多的"},{"start":4378.97,"end":4380.97,"text":"低階農工商品"},{"start":4381.98,"end":4383.98,"text":"所以這也會加劇台灣的"},{"start":4384.73,"end":4386.73,"text":"傳統產業的"},{"start":4387.01,"end":4389.01,"text":"生存困難"},{"start":4388.93,"end":4390.93,"text":"第二個是根據經濟學理論"},{"start":4390.93,"end":4392.93,"text":"可以知道或現在已經"},{"start":4392.93,"end":4394.93,"text":"發生的是"},{"start":4394.62,"end":4396.62,"text":"竹科或者是這些科技"},{"start":4396.62,"end":4398.62,"text":"新貴的薪水"},{"start":4398.62,"end":4400.62,"text":"上升所以他有"},{"start":4400.62,"end":4402.62,"text":"能力花更多的錢去"},{"start":4402.62,"end":4404.62,"text":"消費"},{"start":4404.62,"end":4406.62,"text":"拉大的不只是貧富"},{"start":4406.62,"end":4408.62,"text":"差距"},{"start":4408.62,"end":4410.62,"text":"而且是通貨膨脹"},{"start":4410.62,"end":4412.62,"text":"去年最新的例子"},{"start":4412.62,"end":4414.62,"text":"就是台灣的生活"},{"start":4414.62,"end":4416.62,"text":"總成本"},{"start":4416.62,"end":4418.62,"text":"已經高過日本"},{"start":4418.62,"end":4420.62,"text":"那其中很重要的原因是因為"},{"start":4420.62,"end":4422.62,"text":"生活雜貨跟餐飲"},{"start":4423.98,"end":4425.98,"text":"那另外是剛才三董的"},{"start":4426.34,"end":4428.34,"text":"那個"},{"start":4428.77,"end":4430.77,"text":"先進有提到"},{"start":4430.77,"end":4432.77,"text":"台灣絕大多數都是中小企業"},{"start":4432.77,"end":4434.77,"text":"所以不斷的其實我覺得"},{"start":4434.77,"end":4436.77,"text":"不斷起"},{"start":4436.37,"end":4438.37,"text":"談轉型升級"},{"start":4438.37,"end":4440.37,"text":"對於這些兩人或三人的企業"},{"start":4440.37,"end":4442.37,"text":"其實是有點困難"},{"start":4443.34,"end":4445.34,"text":"那所以我覺得因應的措施"},{"start":4445.34,"end":4447.34,"text":"後面會進一步提到"},{"start":4447.34,"end":4449.34,"text":"現在總結三個"},{"start":4449.34,"end":4451.34,"text":"第一個是從實成熟"},{"start":4451.34,"end":4453.34,"text":"製成"},{"start":4452.96,"end":4454.96,"text":"事實上我們有調查就是"},{"start":4454.96,"end":4456.96,"text":"包含了美國開始"},{"start":4456.96,"end":4458.96,"text":"陸續封鎖中國的"},{"start":4458.96,"end":4460.96,"text":"記憶體和剛才上總"},{"start":4460.96,"end":4462.96,"text":"那個前面提到的"},{"start":4462.96,"end":4464.96,"text":"面板正最新的逆變器"},{"start":4464.96,"end":4466.96,"text":"所以這些我們認為過去"},{"start":4466.96,"end":4467.96,"text":"已經被中國"},{"start":4467.96,"end":4469.96,"text":"擠淡了"},{"start":4469.78,"end":4471.78,"text":"那個商品我們都有機會"},{"start":4471.78,"end":4473.78,"text":"拿回來重做"},{"start":4473.78,"end":4475.78,"text":"順便帶動所有相關"},{"start":4475.78,"end":4477.78,"text":"的電子產業"},{"start":4477.93,"end":4479.93,"text":"那更重要我覺得是"},{"start":4480.34,"end":4482.34,"text":"我們應該要去重新"},{"start":4482.34,"end":4484.34,"text":"定位什麼叫做"},{"start":4484.34,"end":4486.34,"text":"傳產"},{"start":4487.28,"end":4489.28,"text":"我們作為台灣不是"},{"start":4489.28,"end":4491.28,"text":"這麼完全這麼大國"},{"start":4491.28,"end":4493.28,"text":"所以我們要保留哪些"},{"start":4493.28,"end":4495.28,"text":"跟國安相關的企業"},{"start":4496.31,"end":4498.31,"text":"然後輔導一些"},{"start":4498.31,"end":4500.31,"text":"二代接班有"},{"start":4500.31,"end":4502.31,"text":"意願不高的廠商退出"},{"start":4502.31,"end":4504.31,"text":"而不是要強迫說"},{"start":4504.31,"end":4506.31,"text":"你家"},{"start":4506.69,"end":4508.69,"text":"主上都在做這個"},{"start":4508.69,"end":4510.69,"text":"所以你要繼續撐著"},{"start":4510.69,"end":4512.69,"text":"如何退出"},{"start":4512.69,"end":4514.69,"text":"與之對應的我覺得更重要"},{"start":4514.69,"end":4516.69,"text":"是剛才上總有提到的"},{"start":4516.69,"end":4518.69,"text":"服務"},{"start":4517.65,"end":4519.65,"text":"後時服務業"},{"start":4519.65,"end":4521.65,"text":"大概占台灣GDP超過"},{"start":4521.65,"end":4523.65,"text":"五成大概沒記錯大概"},{"start":4523.65,"end":4525.65,"text":"54%"},{"start":4525.11,"end":4527.11,"text":"所以呢如何去發展"},{"start":4527.11,"end":4529.11,"text":"服務業"},{"start":4528.59,"end":4530.59,"text":"對應過來剛才說二代"},{"start":4530.59,"end":4532.59,"text":"接班的家屬辦公室等等"},{"start":4532.59,"end":4534.59,"text":"金融業才是台灣"},{"start":4534.59,"end":4536.59,"text":"應該要後續可以做的"},{"start":4536.59,"end":4538.59,"text":"所以進步來看一些圖表"},{"start":4538.59,"end":4540.59,"text":"的部分第一個就是剛才"},{"start":4540.59,"end":4542.59,"text":"各位先進有提到的或是各位"},{"start":4542.59,"end":4544.59,"text":"各部會長官有提到"},{"start":4544.59,"end":4546.59,"text":"台灣的經濟"},{"start":4546.59,"end":4548.59,"text":"成長率可以看到"},{"start":4548.59,"end":4550.59,"text":"基本上都是新知"},{"start":4550.59,"end":4552.59,"text":"年增率的兩倍"},{"start":4553.29,"end":4555.29,"text":"所以換句話說大部分的錢"},{"start":4555.29,"end":4557.29,"text":"除了現在很可能"},{"start":4557.29,"end":4559.29,"text":"拿去做AI的研發"},{"start":4559.29,"end":4561.29,"text":"另外一塊可能"},{"start":4561.29,"end":4563.29,"text":"更多的是公司的"},{"start":4563.29,"end":4565.29,"text":"保留盈餘"},{"start":4565.29,"end":4567.29,"text":"所以如何拿出來"},{"start":4567.29,"end":4569.29,"text":"稍微拿出來一些去補貼"},{"start":4569.29,"end":4571.29,"text":"勞工的薪資"},{"start":4571.29,"end":4573.29,"text":"所以另外一個這邊提到的台灣"},{"start":4573.29,"end":4575.29,"text":"記憶體系數也重申"},{"start":4575.29,"end":4577.29,"text":"回到2009年"},{"start":4577.29,"end":4579.29,"text":"那個刺激"},{"start":4579.29,"end":4581.29,"text":"防災風暴的時候的高點"},{"start":4581.37,"end":4583.37,"text":"那我們這邊有提到的是"},{"start":4583.37,"end":4585.37,"text":"消費者物價指數"},{"start":4585.37,"end":4587.37,"text":"基本上較2008年"},{"start":4587.37,"end":4589.37,"text":"累計成長大概兩成"},{"start":4589.37,"end":4591.37,"text":"當然就平均來講"},{"start":4591.37,"end":4593.37,"text":"每年的話大概是"},{"start":4593.37,"end":4595.37,"text":"1%不過民眾的感受"},{"start":4595.37,"end":4597.37,"text":"就是另外一回事"},{"start":4597.37,"end":4599.37,"text":"所以這是第一個我覺得K型"},{"start":4599.37,"end":4601.37,"text":"經濟比較大的問題那邊"},{"start":4601.37,"end":4603.37,"text":"第二個用詞可能比較強烈一點"},{"start":4603.37,"end":4605.37,"text":"青美就是"},{"start":4605.37,"end":4607.37,"text":"可以看得到的是"},{"start":4607.77,"end":4609.77,"text":"最近川普最新的301"},{"start":4612.17,"end":4614.17,"text":"關稅下來"},{"start":4614.17,"end":4616.17,"text":"是讓台灣拿到的關稅稅率"},{"start":4616.51,"end":4618.51,"text":"應該是世界上最好的一個等級"},{"start":4619.93,"end":4621.93,"text":"那麼往前回溯"},{"start":4621.93,"end":4623.93,"text":"不管是晶片"},{"start":4625.64,"end":4627.64,"text":"四方聯盟到所謂的"},{"start":4627.64,"end":4629.64,"text":"戲甚是宣言"},{"start":4630.9,"end":4632.9,"text":"都可以看到台美的合作"},{"start":4632.9,"end":4634.9,"text":"是相當"},{"start":4634.9,"end":4636.9,"text":"快速而且"},{"start":4637.25,"end":4639.25,"text":"某種程度經貿上面是相對友善"},{"start":4641.03,"end":4643.03,"text":"所以如何運用"},{"start":4644.15,"end":4646.15,"text":"台美之間的經濟自由度"},{"start":4646.15,"end":4648.15,"text":"人才乃至於世界競爭力"},{"start":4648.15,"end":4650.15,"text":"民主共同鋪墊"},{"start":4650.15,"end":4652.15,"text":"民主供應鏈"},{"start":4652.15,"end":4654.15,"text":"就如同剛才一開始報告的"},{"start":4654.15,"end":4656.15,"text":"包含半導體面板"},{"start":4656.15,"end":4658.15,"text":"這些跟記憶或電子有關的"},{"start":4658.15,"end":4660.15,"text":"都是台灣可以"},{"start":4660.15,"end":4662.15,"text":"重新拿回來的契機"},{"start":4666.04,"end":4668.04,"text":"那麼具體來講"},{"start":4668.04,"end":4670.04,"text":"另外剛才提到的抗中"},{"start":4670.04,"end":4672.04,"text":"可以看到重點是在"},{"start":4672.31,"end":4674.31,"text":"有兩個"},{"start":4674.31,"end":4676.31,"text":"第一個可以看到因為台灣的高科技"},{"start":4676.31,"end":4678.31,"text":"和中間才對中國的"},{"start":4678.31,"end":4680.31,"text":"出口收縮"},{"start":4681.02,"end":4683.02,"text":"另外一方面才能過剩輸出台灣"},{"start":4683.02,"end":4685.02,"text":"所以台灣在"},{"start":4685.02,"end":4687.02,"text":"上半年首次對中國"},{"start":4687.02,"end":4689.02,"text":"出現貨貿逆差"},{"start":4690.27,"end":4692.27,"text":"所以後續"},{"start":4692.85,"end":4694.85,"text":"我覺得建議"},{"start":4694.85,"end":4696.85,"text":"這邊有列出來"},{"start":4697.93,"end":4699.93,"text":"包含加徵關稅"},{"start":4699.93,"end":4701.93,"text":"禁止強迫勞動進口"},{"start":4701.93,"end":4703.93,"text":"或者剛才民防老師有提到"},{"start":4703.93,"end":4705.93,"text":"小額包裹關稅等等"},{"start":4705.93,"end":4707.93,"text":"這些都是保障"},{"start":4707.93,"end":4709.93,"text":"台灣的傳統產業"},{"start":4709.93,"end":4711.93,"text":"生存空間很重要一個"},{"start":4711.93,"end":4713.93,"text":"措施跟手段"},{"start":4713.93,"end":4715.93,"text":"那最後就台灣來講"},{"start":4715.93,"end":4717.93,"text":"這邊只講一點就是兩點"},{"start":4717.93,"end":4719.93,"text":"第一個是提到的"},{"start":4719.93,"end":4721.93,"text":"台灣其實不缺錢"},{"start":4721.93,"end":4723.93,"text":"缺的是投資標的"},{"start":4723.93,"end":4725.93,"text":"所以台灣的超額儲蓄率"},{"start":4725.93,"end":4727.93,"text":"其實都很高"},{"start":4728.2,"end":4730.2,"text":"那麼現在台股的市值"},{"start":4730.2,"end":4732.2,"text":"剛才先進們都提到現在更是"},{"start":4732.2,"end":4734.2,"text":"世界第四"},{"start":4734.2,"end":4736.2,"text":"所以如何發展金融業是第一個"},{"start":4736.2,"end":4738.2,"text":"第二個是我們的"},{"start":4738.2,"end":4740.2,"text":"健全"},{"start":4740.05,"end":4742.05,"text":"副院長那時候提到的中小企業的"},{"start":4742.05,"end":4744.05,"text":"所需資源協助"},{"start":4744.05,"end":4746.05,"text":"這邊也有匡列出來"},{"start":4746.05,"end":4748.05,"text":"供會上參考"},{"start":4748.05,"end":4750.05,"text":"以上報告完畢"},{"start":4750.6,"end":4755.6,"text":"好非常感謝我們中華經濟研究院的副研究員王國成"},{"start":4755.6,"end":4757.6,"text":"王副研究員"},{"start":4757.6,"end":4759.6,"text":"接下來我請第六位"},{"start":4759.6,"end":4762.6,"text":"劉孟俊我們中華經濟研究院的所長"},{"start":4762.6,"end":4764.6,"text":"劉所長歡迎您"},{"start":4774.22,"end":4776.22,"text":"好 副院"},{"start":4775.39,"end":4777.39,"text":"各位長官各位先進大家好"},{"start":4778.95,"end":4780.95,"text":"我是劉孟俊"},{"start":4780.95,"end":4782.95,"text":"來接續我們前面好幾個專家學者"},{"start":4782.95,"end":4784.95,"text":"裡面的發言"},{"start":4785.81,"end":4787.81,"text":"直接跳過一些背景的問題"},{"start":4787.81,"end":4789.81,"text":"那我們來看一下我提出了一個六點的概念"},{"start":4791.43,"end":4793.43,"text":"來改善我們的勞動報酬的一個問題"},{"start":4795.7,"end":4797.7,"text":"首先我們來看一下這個"},{"start":4797.7,"end":4799.7,"text":"剛剛講了很多K型經濟的一些議題"},{"start":4799.7,"end":4803.7,"text":"但是我現在想補充一個數據"},{"start":4804.19,"end":4807.19,"text":"就是說我這邊的報告裡面好像似乎來講是會"},{"start":4807.19,"end":4810.19,"text":"講很多是跟中小企業有關係"},{"start":4810.19,"end":4814.19,"text":"主要是因為中小企業大概是聘僱我們所有的員工"},{"start":4814.19,"end":4819.19,"text":"最新的數據是74.8%"},{"start":4822.25,"end":4828.25,"text":"然後小企業的薪資大概是我們說5人以下好了"},{"start":4828.25,"end":4834.25,"text":"是低於那個是100人以上大概是差了一倍"},{"start":4834.25,"end":4838.25,"text":"所以說我們必須講說改善中小企業裡面的一個競爭力"},{"start":4838.25,"end":4843.25,"text":"是有幫助於我們大部分的勞工裡面的薪資成長"},{"start":4843.25,"end":4847.25,"text":"所以剛才講了很多是K型的往上走跟往下走"},{"start":4847.25,"end":4849.25,"text":"我這邊就跳過去"},{"start":4849.25,"end":4853.25,"text":"這邊是我們5年勞動報酬我們可以看得到"},{"start":4853.25,"end":4856.25,"text":"2024年的時候已經再繼續往下降"},{"start":4856.25,"end":4861.25,"text":"所以意思是講說今天委員裡面提出一個強化的勞動報酬"},{"start":4861.25,"end":4863.25,"text":"這是有它的意義"},{"start":4863.25,"end":4865.25,"text":"另外的話我們這邊看一下"},{"start":4865.25,"end":4870.25,"text":"是說我們平均的薪資所得跟我們中位數裡面的差距是越來越大"},{"start":4870.25,"end":4874.25,"text":"這邊就表示講說我們的勞動報酬的distribution的話"},{"start":4874.25,"end":4876.25,"text":"是越來越分配不均"},{"start":4876.25,"end":4880.25,"text":"那我們這邊的話並不是講說我們要利用到多麼的"},{"start":4881.38,"end":4885.38,"text":"最重要的關係是講說今天會發生一個K型上的發展"},{"start":4885.38,"end":4889.38,"text":"我的概念裡面就是我們的半導體"},{"start":4889.38,"end":4891.38,"text":"跟我們的AI產業裡面的表現"},{"start":4891.38,"end":4893.38,"text":"還有ICT產業裡面表現那麼好"},{"start":4907.1,"end":4913.1,"text":"但是它這邊的一些生產力或競爭力能不能spin off到其他的產業"},{"start":4913.1,"end":4915.1,"text":"或者其他的勞工這才是關鍵"},{"start":4915.1,"end":4917.1,"text":"我們還要繼續把"},{"start":4918.13,"end":4920.13,"text":"保持我們的產業競爭力"},{"start":4920.13,"end":4922.13,"text":"但是在競爭力裡面的一些好處"},{"start":4922.13,"end":4926.13,"text":"能夠透過某些管道裡面外溢到其他產業"},{"start":4926.13,"end":4928.13,"text":"這個我認為這才是一個重點"},{"start":4929.62,"end":4932.62,"text":"好,那我這邊提出六點的一些想法"},{"start":4932.62,"end":4936.62,"text":"這六點想法表面上看起來好像是針對中小企業"},{"start":4936.62,"end":4942.62,"text":"其實更重要的是針對我們要跨部會把我們所有的政策連結在一起"},{"start":4942.62,"end":4945.62,"text":"來幫助我們的小企業"},{"start":4945.62,"end":4950.62,"text":"那透過這個企業內部裡面的一些形式上的調整跟誘因"},{"start":4950.62,"end":4952.62,"text":"來強化我們的競爭力"},{"start":4953.89,"end":4955.89,"text":"好"},{"start":4954.67,"end":4957.67,"text":"好,首先來看一下我們的第一個想法"},{"start":4958.02,"end":4962.02,"text":"所以我們也曾經拜會過許多的企業"},{"start":4962.02,"end":4964.02,"text":"或者參與到相關的一些活動"},{"start":4964.02,"end":4967.02,"text":"企業組裡面講一個"},{"start":4967.81,"end":4969.81,"text":"他說我們好像"},{"start":4969.81,"end":4975.81,"text":"我們的好的優秀老公被半導體或者其他產業人員吸收"},{"start":4976.47,"end":4978.47,"text":"但是他講說如果說我們的企業"},{"start":4978.47,"end":4983.47,"text":"我們的員工看的是我們的企業有機會將來能夠上市上櫃"},{"start":4983.47,"end":4986.47,"text":"那我們的員工,我們的人才就不會"},{"start":4987.12,"end":4989.12,"text":"被吸收"},{"start":4989.12,"end":4991.12,"text":"那我們就建議一個是怎麼樣"},{"start":4991.12,"end":4994.12,"text":"我們會不會設立一個叫做準創櫃板"},{"start":4994.12,"end":4996.12,"text":"或者準新櫃板"},{"start":4996.28,"end":4998.28,"text":"讓他有一個list裡面的時候"},{"start":4998.28,"end":5002.28,"text":"讓我們的企業裡面覺得有這機會將來的話會上市上櫃"},{"start":5002.28,"end":5004.28,"text":"那我的員工也講說"},{"start":5004.28,"end":5010.28,"text":"我在繼續待這個企業裡面就有未來的這個想法"},{"start":5010.28,"end":5012.28,"text":"那這樣子的話我們的老公"},{"start":5012.28,"end":5014.28,"text":"我們的優秀的員工就不會被吸引走"},{"start":5014.28,"end":5017.28,"text":"那我們可以看得到國際上是不是有類似一些做法"},{"start":5017.28,"end":5018.28,"text":"的確有"},{"start":5018.28,"end":5020.28,"text":"像英國、日本或韓國等等"},{"start":5020.28,"end":5024.28,"text":"他就是釋意利用所謂的保健人"},{"start":5024.28,"end":5029.28,"text":"或者是講說我們那個準創櫃或準新櫃板裡面的"},{"start":5029.28,"end":5031.28,"text":"針對的是怎麼樣"},{"start":5031.28,"end":5038.28,"text":"叫做venture或者PE等等投資業者"},{"start":5038.28,"end":5040.28,"text":"這樣子的話可能是一個策略的想法"},{"start":5040.28,"end":5042.28,"text":"這樣我們的員工裡面的話"},{"start":5042.28,"end":5046.28,"text":"可以分享未來的一些成長果實"},{"start":5046.92,"end":5048.92,"text":"第二個的話我們能提供一些想法"},{"start":5048.92,"end":5050.92,"text":"這個些想法是這樣子"},{"start":5051.76,"end":5054.76,"text":"就是說我們很多資深的一些技術人員"},{"start":5054.76,"end":5056.76,"text":"尤其我們現在那個勞工逐漸的老化"},{"start":5056.76,"end":5059.76,"text":"其實他身上有一些know how"},{"start":5059.76,"end":5062.76,"text":"這些know how可不可以透過AI的技術裡面"},{"start":5062.76,"end":5064.76,"text":"把那個隱性知識顯性化"},{"start":5064.76,"end":5067.76,"text":"或者隱性知識隨著數據化"},{"start":5067.76,"end":5069.76,"text":"這樣子的話"},{"start":5070.16,"end":5072.16,"text":"可以幫助我們的企業裡面"},{"start":5072.16,"end":5074.16,"text":"年輕的一些企業員工裡面"},{"start":5074.16,"end":5076.16,"text":"很快就能catch到"},{"start":5076.16,"end":5079.16,"text":"我們資深的老師傅裡面的那些know how"},{"start":5079.16,"end":5081.16,"text":"這樣子的話我們可以看到"},{"start":5081.16,"end":5084.16,"text":"國際上的日本也好韓國也好"},{"start":5084.16,"end":5086.16,"text":"德國、新加坡等等"},{"start":5086.16,"end":5090.16,"text":"他用數位的指引還有資深的一些專家進駐"},{"start":5090.16,"end":5093.16,"text":"還有職場裡面的學習跟技術認證"},{"start":5093.16,"end":5097.16,"text":"來幫助我們的年老的talents"},{"start":5097.16,"end":5099.16,"text":"skill worker"},{"start":5099.16,"end":5102.16,"text":"他使他的know how能夠留下來"},{"start":5102.16,"end":5103.16,"text":"所以說我們可以看到到"},{"start":5103.16,"end":5106.16,"text":"這個數位化並不是取代了老師傅"},{"start":5106.16,"end":5107.16,"text":"而是幫助他的know how"},{"start":5107.16,"end":5109.16,"text":"能夠更快的繼續傳承下去"},{"start":5109.16,"end":5112.16,"text":"讓我們的中校企業裡面更具有競爭力"},{"start":5112.16,"end":5114.16,"text":"但同時呢"},{"start":5114.16,"end":5115.16,"text":"這些的老師傅裡面know how"},{"start":5115.16,"end":5117.16,"text":"如果變成一個數位化的時候"},{"start":5117.16,"end":5119.16,"text":"是不是講說他退休之後"},{"start":5119.16,"end":5123.16,"text":"將來他的know how變成是一個資產"},{"start":5123.16,"end":5125.16,"text":"可以繼續來分享我們成長果實"},{"start":5125.16,"end":5127.16,"text":"這是第二個一些建議"},{"start":5127.69,"end":5129.69,"text":"第三個建議裡面的話"},{"start":5129.69,"end":5131.69,"text":"剛才我們有些同仁也"},{"start":5131.69,"end":5133.69,"text":"那個過程裡面也講"},{"start":5133.69,"end":5136.69,"text":"是有些那個企業裡面是有接班困難"},{"start":5136.69,"end":5137.69,"text":"尤其二代接班"},{"start":5137.69,"end":5140.69,"text":"現在又變成一個很重要的一些挑戰"},{"start":5141.84,"end":5144.84,"text":"我們可以被引進了那個基金的一些力量"},{"start":5144.84,"end":5145.84,"text":"或者創投"},{"start":5145.84,"end":5148.84,"text":"或者其他專業投資人的一些能量"},{"start":5148.84,"end":5151.84,"text":"來幫助我們做一些整合"},{"start":5151.84,"end":5153.84,"text":"我們知道說政府裡面本來就有"},{"start":5153.84,"end":5156.84,"text":"在推動相關的一些措施"},{"start":5156.84,"end":5157.84,"text":"但我們可以被人家講說"},{"start":5157.84,"end":5159.84,"text":"也借鏡一下國際上的一些"},{"start":5159.84,"end":5162.84,"text":"像日本、德國或其他的國家裡面"},{"start":5162.84,"end":5164.84,"text":"利用第三方的一些美合的平台"},{"start":5164.84,"end":5166.84,"text":"或者接班的基金"},{"start":5166.84,"end":5167.84,"text":"或者專業的投資機構"},{"start":5167.84,"end":5170.84,"text":"幫助沒有人能夠接班的一些企業裡面"},{"start":5170.84,"end":5171.84,"text":"這樣就整合"},{"start":5171.84,"end":5174.84,"text":"這些整合裡面是來幫助我們的勞工"},{"start":5174.84,"end":5176.84,"text":"能夠穩定的一些就業機會"},{"start":5176.84,"end":5178.84,"text":"然後規模做大的時候"},{"start":5178.84,"end":5180.84,"text":"使他心智也能夠成長"},{"start":5180.84,"end":5182.84,"text":"這是第三個一些想法"},{"start":5182.84,"end":5183.84,"text":"第四個想法裡面的話"},{"start":5183.84,"end":5186.84,"text":"我覺得說我們可以創造出一個想法"},{"start":5186.84,"end":5188.84,"text":"一個新的一些模式"},{"start":5188.84,"end":5190.84,"text":"我不知道說我們現在台灣"},{"start":5190.84,"end":5192.84,"text":"或者是我們金管會或我們政府裡面"},{"start":5192.84,"end":5194.84,"text":"有一些提倡叫"},{"start":5194.84,"end":5195.84,"text":"綠色金融"},{"start":5195.84,"end":5196.84,"text":"那綠色金融裡面"},{"start":5196.84,"end":5198.84,"text":"我們把它擴大"},{"start":5198.84,"end":5201.84,"text":"這樣說如果說你可以像日本一樣"},{"start":5201.84,"end":5203.84,"text":"是把那個加薪"},{"start":5203.84,"end":5206.84,"text":"放在你的一個政府裡面的一些指引當中的話"},{"start":5206.84,"end":5207.84,"text":"這樣的話"},{"start":5207.84,"end":5209.84,"text":"綠色金融可以擴展到什麼樣"},{"start":5209.84,"end":5212.84,"text":"有更多的社會上面的一些責任裡面"},{"start":5212.84,"end":5215.84,"text":"把我們更有加薪的醫院的一些企業裡面"},{"start":5215.84,"end":5217.84,"text":"也可以防造綠色金融"},{"start":5217.84,"end":5220.84,"text":"可以得到一些連接到一個融資的一些優勢"},{"start":5220.84,"end":5222.84,"text":"第五個的話就是"},{"start":5222.84,"end":5224.84,"text":"我們怎麼幫助我們的勞工"},{"start":5224.84,"end":5226.84,"text":"好能夠普遍的使用到AI的一些技術"},{"start":5226.84,"end":5230.84,"text":"我們可以防造像這個新加坡"},{"start":5230.84,"end":5232.84,"text":"叫Skilled Future"},{"start":5232.84,"end":5234.84,"text":"或者是德國裡面的"},{"start":5234.84,"end":5236.84,"text":"還有的資格化的一些津貼"},{"start":5236.84,"end":5238.84,"text":"你有些數位能力等等"},{"start":5238.84,"end":5241.84,"text":"這樣子的話就是幫助我們的勞工"},{"start":5241.84,"end":5244.84,"text":"使用到這個數位跟AI的能力裡面"},{"start":5244.84,"end":5246.84,"text":"這樣可以得到更多的一些優勢"},{"start":5246.84,"end":5247.84,"text":"這樣子的話"},{"start":5247.84,"end":5249.84,"text":"譬如說你具有數位能力"},{"start":5249.84,"end":5251.84,"text":"可以得到更多的一些薪資"},{"start":5251.84,"end":5253.84,"text":"這個是第五個想法"},{"start":5253.84,"end":5255.84,"text":"第六個想法的話"},{"start":5257.1,"end":5258.1,"text":"最後一個的話"},{"start":5259.45,"end":5261.45,"text":"就是幫助我們企業裡面"},{"start":5261.45,"end":5263.45,"text":"中小企業裡面能夠快速的"},{"start":5263.45,"end":5267.45,"text":"接取AI的數位轉型一些能力"},{"start":5267.45,"end":5270.45,"text":"這樣的話可以加速他們的效益的落地"},{"start":5270.45,"end":5273.45,"text":"所以換句話說我們現在設立FDE裡面"},{"start":5273.45,"end":5275.45,"text":"譬如說我們的數位部裡面"},{"start":5275.45,"end":5277.45,"text":"可以培育到更多的一些專家"},{"start":5277.45,"end":5278.45,"text":"來進駐到我們企業裡面"},{"start":5278.45,"end":5280.45,"text":"幫助我們的數位轉型"},{"start":5280.45,"end":5282.45,"text":"等等的話我這邊就"},{"start":5282.45,"end":5284.45,"text":"書面就留在這邊"},{"start":5284.45,"end":5286.45,"text":"我們不耽誤大家的時間謝謝"},{"start":5288.18,"end":5292.18,"text":"非常感謝劉夢俊劉所長"},{"start":5292.18,"end":5294.18,"text":"您的具體的四點建議"},{"start":5294.18,"end":5296.18,"text":"我們也會留下來書面"},{"start":5296.18,"end":5299.18,"text":"給所有的部會同仁做參考"},{"start":5299.18,"end":5300.18,"text":"接下來我請第七位"},{"start":5300.18,"end":5303.18,"text":"我們淡江大學產業經濟學系的副教授"},{"start":5303.18,"end":5305.18,"text":"莊夢翰莊副教授"},{"start":5305.18,"end":5307.18,"text":"謝謝您歡迎您"},{"start":5324.55,"end":5326.55,"text":"好這邊禮委員"},{"start":5326.55,"end":5327.55,"text":"各位長官"},{"start":5328.53,"end":5331.53,"text":"各位禹涵的專家學生"},{"start":5333.07,"end":5335.07,"text":"今天我來跟各位報告的就是"},{"start":5336.06,"end":5338.06,"text":"也是很大的一個產業"},{"start":5338.06,"end":5342.06,"text":"但是也最近這幾年面臨了一個"},{"start":5342.06,"end":5344.06,"text":"很大的一個衝擊"},{"start":5344.55,"end":5346.55,"text":"那這裡面一個重點就是"},{"start":5348.85,"end":5350.85,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5350.54,"end":5351.54,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5353.64,"end":5358.64,"text":"所以我列了大概有十幾項的建議事項"},{"start":5360.63,"end":5362.63,"text":"我們為什麼會在整個的"},{"start":5363.95,"end":5365.95,"text":"房地產業來講"},{"start":5365.95,"end":5367.95,"text":"我們一直認為"},{"start":5367.24,"end":5369.24,"text":"它是一個"},{"start":5369.52,"end":5371.52,"text":"整體的一個住宅政策"},{"start":5371.52,"end":5373.52,"text":"但事實上它不夠完整"},{"start":5373.91,"end":5375.91,"text":"那"},{"start":5375.26,"end":5377.26,"text":"我們講居住正義"},{"start":5377.26,"end":5380.26,"text":"又顯得不夠正義"},{"start":5380.26,"end":5382.26,"text":"那這裡面有很多問題"},{"start":5382.26,"end":5384.26,"text":"常在我們這裡面"},{"start":5384.26,"end":5386.26,"text":"我所寫的幾個問題"},{"start":5386.26,"end":5389.26,"text":"第一個重點我們可能可以看到說"},{"start":5389.26,"end":5391.26,"text":"市場上"},{"start":5391.1,"end":5393.1,"text":"我們現在在分析的是"},{"start":5393.1,"end":5395.1,"text":"預設屋、中古屋、新城屋"},{"start":5394.95,"end":5396.95,"text":"但是你看那個資訊的來源"},{"start":5396.95,"end":5398.95,"text":"跟我們政府主管機關"},{"start":5398.95,"end":5400.95,"text":"有時候會出現一些落差"},{"start":5400.82,"end":5402.82,"text":"有時候我們假設說"},{"start":5402.63,"end":5404.63,"text":"我們要以準的動數是"},{"start":5404.63,"end":5406.63,"text":"認為應該是在"},{"start":5406.63,"end":5408.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5408.63,"end":5410.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5410.63,"end":5412.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5412.63,"end":5414.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5414.63,"end":5416.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5416.63,"end":5418.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5418.63,"end":5420.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5420.63,"end":5422.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5422.63,"end":5424.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5424.63,"end":5426.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5426.63,"end":5428.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5428.63,"end":5430.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5430.63,"end":5432.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5432.63,"end":5434.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5434.63,"end":5436.63,"text":"如果是"},{"start":5436.63,"end":5438.63,"text":"通常預設屋大家認為是一個在意"},{"start":5439.15,"end":5441.15,"text":"這個房地產的"},{"start":5440.89,"end":5442.89,"text":"這個發展過程的一個領先指標"},{"start":5442.89,"end":5444.89,"text":"但是"},{"start":5444.89,"end":5446.89,"text":"這裡面我們現在"},{"start":5446.89,"end":5448.89,"text":"宜莊業行也是一樣"},{"start":5448.89,"end":5450.89,"text":"大家在觀察那個"},{"start":5450.07,"end":5452.07,"text":"這是國泰的房價支出"},{"start":5452.71,"end":5454.71,"text":"但是國泰的房價支出"},{"start":5454.71,"end":5456.71,"text":"又沒有辦法把"},{"start":5456.71,"end":5458.71,"text":"實價登錄的部分從反映出來"},{"start":5458.71,"end":5460.71,"text":"因為實價登錄就是這幾年都"},{"start":5461.39,"end":5463.39,"text":"都隱藏著不實的教育價格"},{"start":5463.39,"end":5465.39,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":5465.39,"end":5467.39,"text":"因為你在"},{"start":5466.52,"end":5468.52,"text":"退院的時候你簽約"},{"start":5468.52,"end":5470.52,"text":"三天之內要報備"},{"start":5470.55,"end":5472.55,"text":"但是你家屋並沒有要再報備一次"},{"start":5472.55,"end":5474.55,"text":"所以這兩個價格"},{"start":5474.55,"end":5476.55,"text":"沒有辦法去核對"},{"start":5476.55,"end":5478.55,"text":"中間潛藏什麼"},{"start":5478.55,"end":5480.55,"text":"以現在來講三年前買的跟現在"},{"start":5480.55,"end":5482.55,"text":"落差最少10%以上"},{"start":5482.55,"end":5484.55,"text":"這個絕對沒有辦法在"},{"start":5484.55,"end":5486.55,"text":"國泰的房價支出顯現出來"},{"start":5486.55,"end":5488.55,"text":"我們在採樣的時候"},{"start":5488.55,"end":5490.55,"text":"會發覺說"},{"start":5490.55,"end":5492.55,"text":"那怎麼國泰的房價明明是"},{"start":5492.55,"end":5494.55,"text":"上一季才133萬5"},{"start":5495.9,"end":5497.9,"text":"台北市"},{"start":5497.9,"end":5499.9,"text":"現在為什麼到第二季變成138萬6"},{"start":5499.9,"end":5501.9,"text":"怎麼會這麼奇怪"},{"start":5501.9,"end":5503.9,"text":"那你中環部又是一層兩層"},{"start":5503.9,"end":5505.9,"text":"但是看不出來就是"},{"start":5505.9,"end":5507.9,"text":"你在家屋的時候"},{"start":5507.9,"end":5509.9,"text":"隱藏著對用"},{"start":5510.21,"end":5512.21,"text":"那麼"},{"start":5511.36,"end":5513.36,"text":"送裝網"},{"start":5513.36,"end":5515.36,"text":"送家具等等"},{"start":5515.36,"end":5517.36,"text":"包括廣告書寫也可以看到"},{"start":5517.36,"end":5519.36,"text":"這個我們在數據上看不出來"},{"start":5519.36,"end":5521.36,"text":"第二個你新成物來講"},{"start":5521.36,"end":5523.36,"text":"我們通常會看什麼"},{"start":5523.36,"end":5525.36,"text":"比如說591"},{"start":5525.36,"end":5527.36,"text":"是什麼"},{"start":5527.36,"end":5529.36,"text":"異色中古新成物"},{"start":5529.51,"end":5531.51,"text":"你還有一個是以北部地區"},{"start":5531.51,"end":5533.51,"text":"北臺灣"},{"start":5533.51,"end":5535.51,"text":"大概又有一個住宅雜質"},{"start":5535.51,"end":5537.51,"text":"然後你中古就看"},{"start":5540.35,"end":5542.35,"text":"跟永居房屋為主"},{"start":5542.35,"end":5544.35,"text":"所以你會發覺說這個數據都不一樣"},{"start":5544.35,"end":5546.35,"text":"那你如果中古屋來講"},{"start":5546.35,"end":5548.35,"text":"價格比較穩定"},{"start":5548.35,"end":5550.35,"text":"異色房屋幾乎變化非常大"},{"start":5550.35,"end":5552.35,"text":"所以我剛剛講你看國泰的話"},{"start":5552.35,"end":5554.35,"text":"真的有很多的問題"},{"start":5554.35,"end":5556.35,"text":"那第一個我們要跟各位報告的是說"},{"start":5557.88,"end":5559.88,"text":"要密切注意"},{"start":5559.69,"end":5561.69,"text":"可以寫得很快"},{"start":5561.66,"end":5563.66,"text":"然後是不是有V型、U型、L型"},{"start":5563.66,"end":5565.66,"text":"有些地區"},{"start":5565.66,"end":5567.66,"text":"你在看台北市好像好像疊了"},{"start":5567.66,"end":5569.66,"text":"又上來好像有點V字型"},{"start":5569.66,"end":5571.66,"text":"但是如果你去看中南部"},{"start":5571.66,"end":5573.66,"text":"它可能這樣下來以後"},{"start":5573.66,"end":5575.66,"text":"它是一個L型"},{"start":5576.19,"end":5578.19,"text":"淡水"},{"start":5577.45,"end":5579.45,"text":"長期是一個L型的趨勢"},{"start":5579.45,"end":5581.45,"text":"第二點"},{"start":5581.45,"end":5585.45,"text":"我們的普通航急用度是央行在追蹤的指標"},{"start":5585.45,"end":5588.45,"text":"但現在已經降到了35.17"},{"start":5588.45,"end":5590.45,"text":"所以我會建議說"},{"start":5590.45,"end":5592.45,"text":"是不是可以適度的鬆綁一下"},{"start":5592.45,"end":5594.45,"text":"鬆綁大概一成左右"},{"start":5594.45,"end":5596.45,"text":"所以建議對第二戶的代管理"},{"start":5596.45,"end":5598.45,"text":"適度鬆綁一成"},{"start":5598.45,"end":5600.45,"text":"高價也鬆綁一成"},{"start":5600.45,"end":5602.45,"text":"後面我們有一個計算式來跟各位報告"},{"start":5602.45,"end":5604.45,"text":"那你可以從第五點的廣告訴求裡面看到"},{"start":5604.45,"end":5606.45,"text":"這裡面事實上是特案量降"},{"start":5606.45,"end":5609.45,"text":"溢價率也下來了"},{"start":5609.45,"end":5612.45,"text":"然後稍稍等一下"},{"start":5612.45,"end":5614.45,"text":"這是溢價率是上的"},{"start":5614.45,"end":5617.45,"text":"再來第七點的部分就講到"},{"start":5617.45,"end":5620.45,"text":"實價登錄是隱藏的不死價位價格"},{"start":5620.45,"end":5622.45,"text":"然後要注意空物餘額多少"},{"start":5622.45,"end":5625.45,"text":"我們以前在追蹤是從建造至到使用"},{"start":5625.45,"end":5627.45,"text":"到開工到完工"},{"start":5627.45,"end":5629.45,"text":"然後再看買賣移轉"},{"start":5629.45,"end":5631.45,"text":"現在的全部不靈了"},{"start":5631.45,"end":5632.45,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":5632.45,"end":5635.45,"text":"因為央行那個第七波選擇"},{"start":5635.45,"end":5637.45,"text":"進行使用管制"},{"start":5637.45,"end":5641.45,"text":"把建商的漁屋代管只有30%"},{"start":5643.4,"end":5645.4,"text":"第一戶沒有影響"},{"start":5645.4,"end":5648.4,"text":"第二戶代管本來是只有五成"},{"start":5648.4,"end":5649.4,"text":"提高到六成"},{"start":5649.4,"end":5651.4,"text":"大概這樣"},{"start":5651.4,"end":5653.4,"text":"整個的原來"},{"start":5653.4,"end":5655.4,"text":"按照以前的預設制度來講"},{"start":5655.4,"end":5657.4,"text":"都是說代管規格七成八成"},{"start":5657.4,"end":5659.4,"text":"這個落差"},{"start":5659.4,"end":5661.4,"text":"然後偏偏房價又高漲"},{"start":5661.4,"end":5663.4,"text":"所得又沒有跟上"},{"start":5663.4,"end":5667.4,"text":"那就造成我們剛剛講K型的是有錢人"},{"start":5667.4,"end":5669.4,"text":"他真的是非常的有錢"},{"start":5669.4,"end":5671.4,"text":"買房子買豪宅"},{"start":5671.4,"end":5673.4,"text":"不用去代管"},{"start":5673.4,"end":5675.4,"text":"就是民進的人去利用"},{"start":5675.84,"end":5676.84,"text":"新清安"},{"start":5676.84,"end":5678.84,"text":"結果新清安掉入了陷阱"},{"start":5678.84,"end":5679.84,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":5679.84,"end":5681.84,"text":"我說利益良善"},{"start":5681.84,"end":5683.84,"text":"新清安應該是在第十點"},{"start":5683.84,"end":5685.84,"text":"利益良善時機不對"},{"start":5685.84,"end":5687.84,"text":"為什麼你在高峰期"},{"start":5687.84,"end":5689.84,"text":"就應該要下來了"},{"start":5689.84,"end":5691.84,"text":"我們為什麼主管機關"},{"start":5691.84,"end":5693.84,"text":"對於這個發展的趨勢"},{"start":5693.84,"end":5695.84,"text":"沒有辦法充分的掌握"},{"start":5695.84,"end":5697.84,"text":"我想石家登陸應該也會注意到"},{"start":5697.84,"end":5700.84,"text":"有時候助長有時候助手"},{"start":5700.84,"end":5702.84,"text":"所以這是我覺得"},{"start":5702.84,"end":5704.84,"text":"我們以後稍微要再注意一下"},{"start":5704.84,"end":5706.84,"text":"然後另一個問題就是"},{"start":5707.02,"end":5708.02,"text":"CALL YOU"},{"start":5708.69,"end":5710.69,"text":"各位一定可以慢慢看到說"},{"start":5710.69,"end":5712.69,"text":"重化區、蛋白區、大型的"},{"start":5713.23,"end":5716.23,"text":"建安的甲午潮這個後遺症"},{"start":5716.23,"end":5717.23,"text":"已經出現了"},{"start":5717.23,"end":5719.23,"text":"但是我們的"},{"start":5719.23,"end":5721.23,"text":"這是因為預售"},{"start":5721.23,"end":5723.23,"text":"從預售"},{"start":5723.59,"end":5725.59,"text":"出售的時候"},{"start":5725.59,"end":5727.59,"text":"公開銷售到完工"},{"start":5727.59,"end":5729.59,"text":"最少要有四年以上的時間"},{"start":5730.54,"end":5734.54,"text":"這樣來講就會產生很多的資訊的落差"},{"start":5735.4,"end":5737.4,"text":"那另一個重點"},{"start":5737.45,"end":5739.45,"text":"是杜根煒"},{"start":5739.45,"end":5741.45,"text":"我想我們內政部都講說"},{"start":5741.36,"end":5743.36,"text":"我會老超車很高興"},{"start":5743.36,"end":5744.36,"text":"我說不要高興"},{"start":5744.36,"end":5746.36,"text":"從十年前開始講危老的時候"},{"start":5746.36,"end":5749.36,"text":"我說會出現很多的落差"},{"start":5750.69,"end":5753.69,"text":"整個的市場性的問題等等"},{"start":5754.71,"end":5756.71,"text":"那我這邊就是講地區波的部分"},{"start":5756.71,"end":5758.71,"text":"這是已經到了第一"},{"start":5760.89,"end":5762.89,"text":"第二步"},{"start":5762.17,"end":5764.17,"text":"貸款提高一點點"},{"start":5764.17,"end":5766.17,"text":"這是之後提高的"},{"start":5766.22,"end":5768.22,"text":"好,那這裡面一個重點"},{"start":5768.22,"end":5770.22,"text":"我的重點在這裡說"},{"start":5770.37,"end":5772.37,"text":"這個我們"},{"start":5771.62,"end":5773.62,"text":"預期房價上漲的話"},{"start":5773.62,"end":5777.62,"text":"大概都是在2018到2024年的第二季"},{"start":5777.62,"end":5781.62,"text":"那你的建價可能會從180到"},{"start":5782,"end":5784,"text":"提高到110"},{"start":5784,"end":5786,"text":"但以前正常貸款7成到8成"},{"start":5786,"end":5788,"text":"所以你可能會發覺說"},{"start":5788,"end":5790,"text":"貸款可以到"},{"start":5789.35,"end":5791.35,"text":"7成到8成就是說"},{"start":5791.35,"end":5795.35,"text":"你110%成以貸款7成到8成當中"},{"start":5795.35,"end":5797.35,"text":"還是會在7到8成"},{"start":5797.35,"end":5798.35,"text":"沒問題"},{"start":5798.35,"end":5799.35,"text":"但是預期下跌"},{"start":5799.35,"end":5800.35,"text":"現在是下跌"},{"start":5800.35,"end":5802.35,"text":"我覺得2029年還是會下跌"},{"start":5802.35,"end":5804.35,"text":"那它的建價就會降到"},{"start":5804.35,"end":5806.35,"text":"最少降低90"},{"start":5806.35,"end":5808.35,"text":"那接下來這次會注意到說"},{"start":5810.14,"end":5812.14,"text":"如果你的貸款是5成到6成"},{"start":5812.14,"end":5814.14,"text":"最後可能貸款"},{"start":5815.21,"end":5817.21,"text":"打折下來最後也63%"},{"start":5817.21,"end":5818.21,"text":"我的意思是說"},{"start":5818.21,"end":5821.21,"text":"如果我們把貸款的部分"},{"start":5821.21,"end":5823.21,"text":"就是卓越提高1成"},{"start":5823.21,"end":5825.21,"text":"最後從建價"},{"start":5825.21,"end":5827.21,"text":"銀行的建價因為已經自主管理"},{"start":5827.21,"end":5829.21,"text":"它一定會往下調"},{"start":5829.21,"end":5833.21,"text":"頂多也不過是63%"},{"start":5833.21,"end":5835.21,"text":"所以比原來的7成到8成還很低"},{"start":5835.21,"end":5837.21,"text":"所以這不用擔心"},{"start":5837.21,"end":5839.21,"text":"所以我一直建議說"},{"start":5839.21,"end":5841.21,"text":"適度的雙方比較重要"},{"start":5841.21,"end":5843.21,"text":"那另外一個重點就是說"},{"start":5844.43,"end":5846.43,"text":"這個股市跟房市的變動"},{"start":5846.43,"end":5848.43,"text":"造成我們的市場波動"},{"start":5849.55,"end":5851.55,"text":"大家看不太清楚"},{"start":5851.57,"end":5853.57,"text":"好"},{"start":5855.57,"end":5857.57,"text":"這裡面就是講到"},{"start":5857.57,"end":5859.57,"text":"台北市的房價"},{"start":5859,"end":5861,"text":"其實為什麼會大家"},{"start":5861,"end":5863,"text":"一直想把資金放在普通產"},{"start":5863,"end":5865,"text":"就是因為從1966年"},{"start":5865,"end":5867,"text":"左下方那個"},{"start":5867,"end":5869,"text":"那時候一坪大概0.3"},{"start":5869,"end":5871,"text":"其實3000區而已"},{"start":5871,"end":5873,"text":"到現在已經133萬多"},{"start":5873,"end":5875,"text":"就是變成漲多跌少"},{"start":5875,"end":5877,"text":"那個趨勢"},{"start":5877,"end":5879,"text":"我想主要是跟各位來報告"},{"start":5879,"end":5881,"text":"剛剛那個部分就是"},{"start":5881,"end":5883,"text":"如果我們"},{"start":5883,"end":5885,"text":"單行適度的雙板1成的話"},{"start":5885.81,"end":5890.81,"text":"大概貸款也不過是原來的6成多而已"},{"start":5890.81,"end":5892.81,"text":"也沒有超過7成"},{"start":5892.81,"end":5896.81,"text":"所以我一直建議說可以適度的雙板房貸"},{"start":5898.74,"end":5900.74,"text":"這個買方跟"},{"start":5900.95,"end":5905.95,"text":"建商跟銀行都可以同時在一個平衡點之下"},{"start":5905.95,"end":5907.95,"text":"取得一個"},{"start":5907.66,"end":5910.66,"text":"這個解套的"},{"start":5910.69,"end":5912.69,"text":"一個方法的"},{"start":5913.13,"end":5915.13,"text":"從"},{"start":5914.36,"end":5916.36,"text":"我們"},{"start":5915.76,"end":5917.76,"text":"大家單行的硬著陸"},{"start":5917.76,"end":5919.76,"text":"就會慢慢的傾向於"},{"start":5919.76,"end":5921.76,"text":"軟著陸的發展"},{"start":5921.76,"end":5923.76,"text":"謝謝各位"},{"start":5923.22,"end":5925.22,"text":"非常感謝"},{"start":5925.22,"end":5927.22,"text":"莊孟翰教授對於"},{"start":5927.22,"end":5929.22,"text":"近期在第七波"},{"start":5929.22,"end":5931.22,"text":"這個信用管制"},{"start":5931.22,"end":5933.22,"text":"央行信用管制之後"},{"start":5933.22,"end":5935.22,"text":"對於整體房貸的衝擊"},{"start":5935.22,"end":5937.22,"text":"好幾位財務會的委員"},{"start":5937.22,"end":5939.22,"text":"也關注過相關的議題"},{"start":5939.22,"end":5941.22,"text":"在各縣市的狀況之下"},{"start":5941.22,"end":5943.22,"text":"其實城鄉差距之下"},{"start":5943.22,"end":5945.22,"text":"其實各地方房地產的價格"},{"start":5945.22,"end":5947.22,"text":"有相當大的差異"},{"start":5947.22,"end":5949.22,"text":"當然房地產是整體台灣"},{"start":5949.22,"end":5951.22,"text":"上下有產業鏈"},{"start":5951.22,"end":5953.22,"text":"也聽聞"},{"start":5953.22,"end":5955.22,"text":"從媒體報導也知道"},{"start":5955.22,"end":5957.22,"text":"最近開始相關的產業"},{"start":5957.22,"end":5959.22,"text":"有開始放五星價的狀況"},{"start":5959.22,"end":5961.22,"text":"當然這一點也需要我們央行"},{"start":5961.22,"end":5963.22,"text":"特別關注"},{"start":5963.22,"end":5965.22,"text":"做以上剛才莊教授的建議"},{"start":5965.22,"end":5967.22,"text":"請央行去做參考"},{"start":5967.22,"end":5969.22,"text":"好來接下來第八位請"},{"start":5969.22,"end":5971.22,"text":"張其露我們的國立中山大學"},{"start":5971.22,"end":5973.22,"text":"政治經濟學系的教授"},{"start":5973.22,"end":5975.22,"text":"請張教授歡迎您"},{"start":5976.75,"end":5978.75,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5986.23,"end":5988.23,"text":"好趙委"},{"start":5988.23,"end":5990.23,"text":"我們各位委員還有我們參與"},{"start":5990.23,"end":5992.23,"text":"公聽會的所有專家學者"},{"start":5992.23,"end":5994.23,"text":"跟我們行政部門的同仁"},{"start":5994.23,"end":5996.23,"text":"大家早安"},{"start":5996.23,"end":5998.23,"text":"很高興今天來跟大家"},{"start":5998.23,"end":6000.23,"text":"來討論這一個"},{"start":6000.23,"end":6002.23,"text":"算是一個非常重要的主題"},{"start":6002.23,"end":6004.23,"text":"其實我這邊很精簡的大概先跟各位"},{"start":6004.23,"end":6006.23,"text":"報告一下"},{"start":6005.74,"end":6007.74,"text":"大概我的主軸"},{"start":6007.74,"end":6009.74,"text":"我們先來談一下"},{"start":6009.74,"end":6011.74,"text":"今天碰到的真實問題"},{"start":6011.74,"end":6013.74,"text":"到底是什麼"},{"start":6013.74,"end":6015.74,"text":"其次我們可能用"},{"start":6015.74,"end":6017.74,"text":"我們確實有的一些"},{"start":6017.5,"end":6019.5,"text":"數據資料來看這樣的一個情況"},{"start":6019.5,"end":6021.5,"text":"當然我們也會提出就是說"},{"start":6021.5,"end":6023.5,"text":"我們到底面臨的這樣子的"},{"start":6023.5,"end":6025.5,"text":"這個問題他的原因到底是什麼"},{"start":6025.5,"end":6027.5,"text":"那當然最重要的是"},{"start":6027.5,"end":6029.5,"text":"今天公聽會當然也希望知道說"},{"start":6029.5,"end":6031.5,"text":"是不是有具體改善的這個"},{"start":6031.5,"end":6033.5,"text":"策略性的這個建議"},{"start":6033.5,"end":6035.5,"text":"那我大概也提出兩個大的方向"},{"start":6035.5,"end":6037.5,"text":"最後我們做個總結"},{"start":6037.5,"end":6039.5,"text":"我想這個高從這個高成長"},{"start":6039.5,"end":6041.5,"text":"低擴散到共享成長"},{"start":6041.5,"end":6043.5,"text":"這件事是應該這樣談"},{"start":6043.46,"end":6045.46,"text":"就是這個K型經濟大家很了解"},{"start":6045.46,"end":6047.46,"text":"就是這個AI半導體"},{"start":6047.46,"end":6049.46,"text":"跟資本密集的這個部門"},{"start":6049.46,"end":6051.46,"text":"他這個高產值高獲利高薪"},{"start":6051.46,"end":6053.46,"text":"那另外一個部分其實就是"},{"start":6053.46,"end":6055.46,"text":"我們這個傳統產業中小企業"},{"start":6055.46,"end":6057.46,"text":"還有多數的勞工"},{"start":6057.46,"end":6059.46,"text":"他們未必能享受到"},{"start":6059.46,"end":6061.46,"text":"這樣子的一個經濟成果"},{"start":6061.46,"end":6063.46,"text":"我想這就是這個K型經濟的"},{"start":6063.46,"end":6065.46,"text":"概念"},{"start":6066.61,"end":6068.61,"text":"那當然這個概念是這樣"},{"start":6068.61,"end":6070.61,"text":"就是說我們並不是說沒有成長"},{"start":6070.61,"end":6072.61,"text":"而是這個成長沒有"},{"start":6072.97,"end":6074.97,"text":"充分傳導下去"},{"start":6074.97,"end":6076.97,"text":"甚至經濟的果實沒有被共享"},{"start":6076.97,"end":6078.97,"text":"我想就是說同一波的這個"},{"start":6078.97,"end":6080.97,"text":"經濟成長那大概是有上行部門"},{"start":6080.97,"end":6082.97,"text":"但是也有低擴散部門"},{"start":6082.97,"end":6084.97,"text":"甚至可能以相對來講"},{"start":6084.97,"end":6086.97,"text":"他會變得更差"},{"start":6086.97,"end":6088.97,"text":"所以這個地方當然我直接我們就是說"},{"start":6088.97,"end":6090.97,"text":"這裡面看得出來有幾個段列"},{"start":6090.97,"end":6092.97,"text":"包括一個是成長的段列"},{"start":6092.97,"end":6094.97,"text":"就是總體成長跟我們的勞工"},{"start":6094.97,"end":6096.97,"text":"的這個薪資的分配"},{"start":6098.45,"end":6100.45,"text":"第二個就是產業的段列"},{"start":6100.45,"end":6102.45,"text":"就是高科技的這個產業跟非半導體的"},{"start":6102.45,"end":6104.45,"text":"這些產業"},{"start":6104.45,"end":6106.45,"text":"那再來一個是能力的段列"},{"start":6106.45,"end":6108.45,"text":"就是有大型跟中小型"},{"start":6108.45,"end":6110.45,"text":"這就是我們至少去觀察這個問題"},{"start":6110.45,"end":6112.45,"text":"可以看得出來"},{"start":6112.97,"end":6114.97,"text":"然後當然這些也都有數據"},{"start":6114.97,"end":6116.97,"text":"其實當然我們這邊"},{"start":6116.97,"end":6118.97,"text":"不用援引太多"},{"start":6118.97,"end":6120.97,"text":"前面的專家學者也講得很清楚"},{"start":6120.97,"end":6122.97,"text":"其實不管是總體成長"},{"start":6122.97,"end":6124.97,"text":"出口動能或者我們看我們的這個"},{"start":6124.97,"end":6126.97,"text":"平均薪資或中位數薪資"},{"start":6126.97,"end":6128.97,"text":"或者我們的這個財政能力"},{"start":6130.68,"end":6132.68,"text":"其實台灣的經濟好不好"},{"start":6132.68,"end":6134.68,"text":"超好啊"},{"start":6134.68,"end":6136.68,"text":"可是是不是每一個人都"},{"start":6136.68,"end":6138.68,"text":"分享到這個包括就是什麼"},{"start":6138.68,"end":6140.68,"text":"我們現在成長高度集中"},{"start":6140.68,"end":6142.68,"text":"尤其是集中在所謂這個"},{"start":6142.68,"end":6144.68,"text":"半導體電腦"},{"start":6144.68,"end":6146.68,"text":"電子及光學產品"},{"start":6146.68,"end":6148.68,"text":"這些我想我們主席總處"},{"start":6148.68,"end":6150.68,"text":"都已經盤點的很好了"},{"start":6150.68,"end":6152.68,"text":"那我們的薪資的這個傳導的偏弱"},{"start":6152.68,"end":6154.68,"text":"就是說我們GDP跟"},{"start":6154.68,"end":6156.68,"text":"出口快速擴張但是我們本國"},{"start":6156.68,"end":6158.68,"text":"全時受僱員工的這個"},{"start":6158.68,"end":6160.68,"text":"薪資成長卻是在"},{"start":6160.68,"end":6162.68,"text":"所有這些成長裡面最低的"},{"start":6164.25,"end":6167.25,"text":"再來一個當然我們也有很不錯的這個財政的這個收入"},{"start":6167.25,"end":6169.25,"text":"近期因為我們的總體好嘛"},{"start":6169.25,"end":6171.25,"text":"我想這大家都很了解"},{"start":6171.25,"end":6173.25,"text":"我就不多囉嗦"},{"start":6173.25,"end":6175.25,"text":"那當然這裡面就看出"},{"start":6175.25,"end":6177.25,"text":"我剛前面講的斷裂"},{"start":6177.25,"end":6179.25,"text":"這個斷裂就是說"},{"start":6179.25,"end":6181.25,"text":"我們整個"},{"start":6181.25,"end":6183.25,"text":"這些好的果實"},{"start":6183.25,"end":6186.25,"text":"尤其是直白講我想最多專家學者提出來的就是說"},{"start":6187.4,"end":6189.4,"text":"你實質的這個GDP成長裡面"},{"start":6189.4,"end":6191.4,"text":"比如勞工的這個分配"},{"start":6191.4,"end":6193.4,"text":"到底有多少勞工的這個薪資"},{"start":6193.4,"end":6195.4,"text":"占GDP的比例是多少"},{"start":6195.4,"end":6197.4,"text":"再來一個是高科技跟半導體這些"},{"start":6197.4,"end":6199.4,"text":"當然他也有包括了"},{"start":6199.4,"end":6201.4,"text":"很多這個這個不同的"},{"start":6201.4,"end":6203.4,"text":"產業之間可能有人"},{"start":6203.4,"end":6205.4,"text":"分享到的這個但是"},{"start":6205.4,"end":6207.4,"text":"不是在這個圈內的話"},{"start":6207.4,"end":6209.4,"text":"他可能他這個斷裂很大"},{"start":6209.4,"end":6211.4,"text":"那當然還有大跟小之間"},{"start":6211.4,"end":6213.4,"text":"當然這裡面就會衍生到一些我這邊其實有寫"},{"start":6213.4,"end":6215.4,"text":"但是時間有限"},{"start":6215.4,"end":6217.4,"text":"我們可以追蹤的一些指標"},{"start":6217.4,"end":6219.4,"text":"不過這個等一下我乾脆就在建議裡面"},{"start":6219.4,"end":6221.4,"text":"一同一起來處理了"},{"start":6223.24,"end":6225.24,"text":"那當然這個有很多學理基礎"},{"start":6225.24,"end":6227.24,"text":"其實坦白說"},{"start":6227.24,"end":6229.24,"text":"學總體經濟當然大家都很清楚"},{"start":6229.24,"end":6231.24,"text":"到底怎麼發生的一個就是薪資跟生產力"},{"start":6231.24,"end":6233.24,"text":"的這個脫鉤這裡"},{"start":6233.24,"end":6235.24,"text":"我其實也盤點了很多OECD的這個"},{"start":6235.24,"end":6237.24,"text":"報告大家很清楚了就不用多說"},{"start":6237.24,"end":6239.24,"text":"最主要就是我們勞動"},{"start":6239.24,"end":6241.24,"text":"佔比下降"},{"start":6241.24,"end":6243.24,"text":"那他佔整個GDP的這個分配裡面"},{"start":6243.24,"end":6245.24,"text":"他這個比例是越來越低"},{"start":6245.24,"end":6247.24,"text":"其實主計總處"},{"start":6247.24,"end":6249.24,"text":"大概已經是兩年前都已經做"},{"start":6249.24,"end":6251.24,"text":"出來了這個我們已經"},{"start":6251.24,"end":6253.24,"text":"創了十年的新低"},{"start":6253.24,"end":6255.24,"text":"勞工在GDP這種大品裡面"},{"start":6255.24,"end":6257.24,"text":"他這個分配的這個share是"},{"start":6257.24,"end":6259.24,"text":"越來越少的"},{"start":6259.24,"end":6261.24,"text":"那另外還有明星產業的出現"},{"start":6261.24,"end":6263.24,"text":"他也做出一些排擠"},{"start":6263.24,"end":6265.24,"text":"這個也是有一些學理的支撐"},{"start":6265.24,"end":6267.24,"text":"那再來就是企業生產力的分化"},{"start":6268.17,"end":6270.17,"text":"不是每個企業都有這個能力"},{"start":6270.17,"end":6272.17,"text":"去做這些事的他也要"},{"start":6272.17,"end":6274.17,"text":"有他自己的能力這些OECD"},{"start":6274.17,"end":6276.17,"text":"其實也都有盤點那因為時間"},{"start":6276.17,"end":6278.17,"text":"我看有些人我也不能再多說"},{"start":6278.17,"end":6280.17,"text":"我就直接要先到"},{"start":6280.17,"end":6282.17,"text":"這個必須"},{"start":6282.17,"end":6284.17,"text":"檢討我們現行的政策"},{"start":6284.17,"end":6286.17,"text":"我們現行不是沒有政策我想"},{"start":6286.17,"end":6288.17,"text":"這次公聽會之前幕僚同樣"},{"start":6288.17,"end":6290.17,"text":"也準備的很好其實不管是經濟部"},{"start":6290.17,"end":6292.17,"text":"主管的相關的這些特別預算"},{"start":6292.17,"end":6294.17,"text":"或者是甚至在這個中小級"},{"start":6294.17,"end":6296.17,"text":"新創企業這個"},{"start":6296.17,"end":6298.17,"text":"所做的這個金融支持"},{"start":6298.17,"end":6300.17,"text":"其實都有但是我們這邊"},{"start":6300.17,"end":6302.17,"text":"直接點出核心的這個問題"},{"start":6302.17,"end":6304.17,"text":"包括就是說這些現代的作為"},{"start":6304.17,"end":6306.17,"text":"是不是只看投入沒有看政策的"},{"start":6306.17,"end":6308.17,"text":"競效果還有只提供資金"},{"start":6308.17,"end":6310.17,"text":"協助沒有處理企業能力以及"},{"start":6310.17,"end":6312.17,"text":"申請至可能形成"},{"start":6312.17,"end":6314.17,"text":"強者越強弱者越弱"},{"start":6314.17,"end":6316.17,"text":"最後一個就是補助這些企業"},{"start":6316.17,"end":6318.17,"text":"勞工他到底有沒有被分享到"},{"start":6318.17,"end":6320.17,"text":"這些有沒有追蹤所以這個"},{"start":6320.17,"end":6322.17,"text":"地方說我們也盤點說目前的"},{"start":6322.17,"end":6324.17,"text":"這些行政措施真正"},{"start":6324.17,"end":6326.17,"text":"他還是有些盲點的"},{"start":6327.26,"end":6329.26,"text":"那然後好因為時間太有限"},{"start":6329.26,"end":6331.26,"text":"我就只能直接說了"},{"start":6331.26,"end":6333.26,"text":"我們的政策建議我們必須"},{"start":6333.26,"end":6335.26,"text":"第一個建立成長擴散跟共享"},{"start":6335.26,"end":6337.26,"text":"成果的指標系統"},{"start":6337.26,"end":6339.26,"text":"其實我這邊已經盤點了至少"},{"start":6339.26,"end":6341.26,"text":"五類第一個就是成長"},{"start":6341.26,"end":6343.26,"text":"擴散率的這種指標"},{"start":6343.26,"end":6345.26,"text":"這個簡單講就是我們用我們的"},{"start":6345.26,"end":6347.26,"text":"實質中位數薪資的成長除以"},{"start":6347.26,"end":6349.26,"text":"實質勞動力生產"},{"start":6349.26,"end":6351.26,"text":"的這個成長就是他都有成長"},{"start":6351.26,"end":6353.26,"text":"但是我們看哪一個"},{"start":6353.26,"end":6355.26,"text":"這個這個成長的這個比例"},{"start":6355.26,"end":6357.26,"text":"其實是可以建構一些新的指標"},{"start":6357.26,"end":6359.26,"text":"再來一個就是勞動成果的這個"},{"start":6359.26,"end":6361.26,"text":"分享也就是說他"},{"start":6361.26,"end":6363.26,"text":"到底這個勞動占GDP的"},{"start":6363.26,"end":6365.26,"text":"這個比例還有不同產業別"},{"start":6365.26,"end":6367.26,"text":"之間這關係到底是什麼"},{"start":6367.26,"end":6369.26,"text":"再來一個就是高科技的他"},{"start":6369.26,"end":6371.26,"text":"真的到底有沒有外溢其實這裡"},{"start":6371.26,"end":6373.26,"text":"我們也欠缺一些指標就包括"},{"start":6373.26,"end":6375.26,"text":"就是說他是不是比如說他雖然"},{"start":6375.26,"end":6377.26,"text":"是台積電很棒但是他在我們在地"},{"start":6377.26,"end":6379.26,"text":"的採購他帶動的"},{"start":6379.26,"end":6381.26,"text":"在其他的這種生產力薪資出口及"},{"start":6381.26,"end":6383.26,"text":"地方就業的這種變化這個"},{"start":6383.26,"end":6385.26,"text":"其實也應該去衡量去琢磨"},{"start":6385.26,"end":6387.26,"text":"他是不是有辦法"},{"start":6388.48,"end":6390.48,"text":"把他這個外溢效果也建構具體的指標"},{"start":6390.48,"end":6392.48,"text":"再來一個就是補助附加效果"},{"start":6392.48,"end":6394.48,"text":"坦白說我們要知道我們的補助"},{"start":6394.48,"end":6396.48,"text":"不是只有投入"},{"start":6396.48,"end":6398.48,"text":"但是我們不知道這個進產出產出"},{"start":6398.48,"end":6400.48,"text":"的到底是什麼尤其是"},{"start":6400.48,"end":6402.48,"text":"帶動了多少投資研發"},{"start":6402.48,"end":6404.48,"text":"加薪跟中高薪"},{"start":6404.48,"end":6406.48,"text":"工作這個到底多多少"},{"start":6406.48,"end":6408.48,"text":"最後一個是政策受益的這個部分"},{"start":6408.48,"end":6410.48,"text":"就是說到底誰受益的"},{"start":6410.48,"end":6412.48,"text":"哪些產業這樣的這個區分"},{"start":6412.48,"end":6414.48,"text":"也許可能"},{"start":6414.48,"end":6416.48,"text":"我們行政部門會說我們也做了一些"},{"start":6416.48,"end":6418.48,"text":"但是可能這些很具體的因為我這邊"},{"start":6418.48,"end":6420.48,"text":"寫的比較細也請可以參考一下"},{"start":6420.48,"end":6422.48,"text":"那當然我們也可以"},{"start":6422.48,"end":6424.48,"text":"有五項直接可以就做了"},{"start":6424.48,"end":6426.48,"text":"制度改革這個包括"},{"start":6426.48,"end":6428.48,"text":"我們是不是要納入重大公共支持"},{"start":6428.48,"end":6430.48,"text":"的共享成長條款"},{"start":6430.48,"end":6432.48,"text":"簡單講就是如果你得到了"},{"start":6432.48,"end":6434.48,"text":"這些政府支持的好處"},{"start":6434.48,"end":6436.48,"text":"那你有共享出去嗎"},{"start":6436.48,"end":6438.48,"text":"這邊我們其實就是說我們可能"},{"start":6438.48,"end":6440.48,"text":"不管是這個他是不是要"},{"start":6440.48,"end":6442.48,"text":"有這個分紅的這個調整人才"},{"start":6442.48,"end":6444.48,"text":"培育的這個計畫"},{"start":6444.48,"end":6446.48,"text":"他怎麼樣擴散給他的員工"},{"start":6446.48,"end":6448.48,"text":"還有建立產業別的"},{"start":6448.48,"end":6450.48,"text":"共同轉型平台"},{"start":6450.48,"end":6452.48,"text":"坦白講很多中小企業"},{"start":6452.48,"end":6454.48,"text":"他其實每個人都重複投資"},{"start":6454.48,"end":6456.48,"text":"而且他可能也做不來他也沒"},{"start":6456.48,"end":6458.48,"text":"這個資源所以是不是由政府做"},{"start":6458.48,"end":6460.48,"text":"這個共享的這個這樣整合"},{"start":6460.48,"end":6462.48,"text":"AIA資安碳盤查這些認證"},{"start":6462.48,"end":6464.48,"text":"這由是政府做總的來提供"},{"start":6464.48,"end":6466.48,"text":"中小的企業再來就是"},{"start":6466.48,"end":6468.48,"text":"龍頭帶動中小的這種責任"},{"start":6468.48,"end":6470.48,"text":"機制就是我們這些大型的企業"},{"start":6470.48,"end":6472.48,"text":"他是不是也發揮他用"},{"start":6472.48,"end":6474.48,"text":"這個領頭羊的這個作用"},{"start":6474.48,"end":6476.48,"text":"再來就是說我們金融支持"},{"start":6476.48,"end":6478.48,"text":"要改為融資診斷跟轉型"},{"start":6478.48,"end":6480.48,"text":"就是說這些不是只給他錢"},{"start":6480.48,"end":6482.48,"text":"還包括我們要分析他"},{"start":6482.48,"end":6484.48,"text":"然後他做了什麼事"},{"start":6484.48,"end":6486.48,"text":"最後一個就是說這些產業的"},{"start":6486.48,"end":6488.48,"text":"輔助還是要有落日跟比較"},{"start":6488.48,"end":6490.48,"text":"跟追回的機制就是說"},{"start":6490.48,"end":6492.48,"text":"我們事實上這個評估要可能"},{"start":6492.48,"end":6494.48,"text":"更省省抱歉因為時間有限我只能"},{"start":6494.48,"end":6496.48,"text":"寫的裡面其實都有寫"},{"start":6496.48,"end":6498.48,"text":"再請參考"},{"start":6498.48,"end":6500.48,"text":"好最後一頁那我想"},{"start":6500.48,"end":6502.48,"text":"總結就是說我們希望從一個"},{"start":6503.42,"end":6505.42,"text":"這種發展型的國家的這個概念"},{"start":6505.42,"end":6507.42,"text":"走向一個共享其實我們現在台灣"},{"start":6507.42,"end":6509.42,"text":"經濟既然已經有了這個成果"},{"start":6509.42,"end":6511.42,"text":"那不應該是有的人更好"},{"start":6511.42,"end":6513.42,"text":"但是有的人反而是越走越差"},{"start":6513.42,"end":6515.42,"text":"所以這個怎麼樣從"},{"start":6515.42,"end":6517.42,"text":"做大總量然後從補助"},{"start":6517.42,"end":6519.42,"text":"個別企業這樣的著手然後"},{"start":6519.42,"end":6521.42,"text":"再從資源的這個投入等等做好"},{"start":6521.42,"end":6523.42,"text":"我們半導體的成功並不是"},{"start":6523.42,"end":6525.42,"text":"問題那經濟的成長"},{"start":6525.42,"end":6527.42,"text":"也不是問題那政府的稅收"},{"start":6527.42,"end":6529.42,"text":"增加更不是問題那重點是說"},{"start":6529.42,"end":6531.42,"text":"我們怎麼樣讓他擴散出去"},{"start":6531.42,"end":6533.42,"text":"怎麼樣讓勞工的薪資真正增加"},{"start":6533.42,"end":6535.42,"text":"還有讓這個稅收轉化為"},{"start":6535.42,"end":6537.42,"text":"我們政府可以補助產業"},{"start":6537.42,"end":6539.42,"text":"跟勞工的這個能力才是關鍵"},{"start":6539.42,"end":6541.42,"text":"以上謝謝謝謝大家"},{"start":6542.28,"end":6544.28,"text":"謝謝我們立法院的好朋友"},{"start":6544.28,"end":6546.28,"text":"好同事也是我們"},{"start":6546.28,"end":6548.28,"text":"中山大學政治經濟學系的"},{"start":6548.28,"end":6550.28,"text":"教授建議了幾個"},{"start":6550.28,"end":6552.28,"text":"重要的意見"},{"start":6552.28,"end":6554.28,"text":"那我們"},{"start":6554.28,"end":6556.28,"text":"接下來登記發言的學者"},{"start":6556.28,"end":6558.28,"text":"專家都已經發言完畢我們等一下"},{"start":6558.28,"end":6560.28,"text":"是需要如果還有需要第二輪我們"},{"start":6560.28,"end":6562.28,"text":"再邀請大家參加第二輪"},{"start":6562.28,"end":6564.28,"text":"那接著我先請行政"},{"start":6564.28,"end":6566.28,"text":"機關回應相關的意見"},{"start":6566.28,"end":6568.28,"text":"依序現在先請財政部"},{"start":6568.28,"end":6570.28,"text":"來做回應阮市長"},{"start":6570.28,"end":6572.28,"text":"歡迎您謝謝"},{"start":6586.01,"end":6588.01,"text":"主席"},{"start":6588.01,"end":6590.01,"text":"各位學者專家先進"},{"start":6590.01,"end":6592.01,"text":"大家早安"},{"start":6592.01,"end":6594.01,"text":"今天真的很感恩"},{"start":6594.01,"end":6596.01,"text":"聽到這麼多學者專家的"},{"start":6596.01,"end":6598.01,"text":"寶貴的意見"},{"start":6598.01,"end":6600.01,"text":"真的受益良多"},{"start":6600.01,"end":6602.01,"text":"那首先"},{"start":6602.01,"end":6604.01,"text":"我就先針對剛才"},{"start":6604.01,"end":6606.01,"text":"賴委員所"},{"start":6606.01,"end":6608.01,"text":"提到的問題關於這個"},{"start":6608.01,"end":6610.01,"text":"股市的問題"},{"start":6610.01,"end":6612.01,"text":"那國安基金的進場"},{"start":6612.01,"end":6614.01,"text":"大家知道都有一定的"},{"start":6614.01,"end":6616.01,"text":"條件的限制"},{"start":6616.01,"end":6618.01,"text":"一定是要就是"},{"start":6618.01,"end":6620.01,"text":"碰到重大事件"},{"start":6620.01,"end":6622.01,"text":"導致信心"},{"start":6622.01,"end":6624.01,"text":"崩盤"},{"start":6624.01,"end":6626.01,"text":"市長失去的狀況才會進場"},{"start":6626.01,"end":6628.01,"text":"那麼最近"},{"start":6628.01,"end":6630.01,"text":"最近三場進場都是"},{"start":6630.01,"end":6632.01,"text":"一些特殊的狀況"},{"start":6632.01,"end":6634.01,"text":"比如像COVID-19或者是"},{"start":6634.01,"end":6636.01,"text":"歐戰爭的升息或者是"},{"start":6636.01,"end":6638.01,"text":"台美關稅等等這些"},{"start":6638.01,"end":6640.01,"text":"那這個都是"},{"start":6640.01,"end":6642.01,"text":"有特殊的狀況才會"},{"start":6642.01,"end":6644.01,"text":"進場"},{"start":6644.01,"end":6646.01,"text":"那通常一般來講"},{"start":6646.01,"end":6648.01,"text":"我們對市場是不會進入干預的"},{"start":6648.01,"end":6650.01,"text":"不會進入干預的"},{"start":6650.01,"end":6652.01,"text":"也就是說它有漲有跌"},{"start":6652.01,"end":6654.01,"text":"最近當然受到國際局勢的影響"},{"start":6654.01,"end":6656.01,"text":"那再加上"},{"start":6656.01,"end":6658.01,"text":"台灣的股市"},{"start":6658.01,"end":6660.01,"text":"跟國際的股市有高度的連動"},{"start":6660.01,"end":6662.01,"text":"所以最近"},{"start":6662.01,"end":6664.01,"text":"因為國際股市不好"},{"start":6664.01,"end":6666.01,"text":"那麼台灣的股市也受到影響"},{"start":6666.01,"end":6668.01,"text":"不過"},{"start":6668.01,"end":6670.01,"text":"這個是"},{"start":6670.01,"end":6672.01,"text":"有漲有跌這是正常的情況"},{"start":6672.01,"end":6674.01,"text":"這種情況"},{"start":6674.01,"end":6676.01,"text":"那事實上今天"},{"start":6676.01,"end":6678.01,"text":"大家都看了一下今天股市"},{"start":6678.01,"end":6680.01,"text":"又回不上漲了"},{"start":6680.01,"end":6682.01,"text":"昨天跌"},{"start":6682.01,"end":6684.01,"text":"今天又漲"},{"start":6684.01,"end":6686.01,"text":"所以最近的狀況就是一個震盪的形態"},{"start":6686.01,"end":6688.01,"text":"那"},{"start":6688.01,"end":6690.01,"text":"我想我們"},{"start":6690.01,"end":6692.01,"text":"國安基金的立場很簡單"},{"start":6692.01,"end":6694.01,"text":"我們密切關注國際的"},{"start":6694.01,"end":6696.01,"text":"國內跟國外的"},{"start":6696.01,"end":6698.01,"text":"政經的情勢"},{"start":6698.01,"end":6700.01,"text":"密切的關注"},{"start":6700.01,"end":6702.01,"text":"如果有一些失序的狀況"},{"start":6702.01,"end":6704.01,"text":"我們會做思路來處理"},{"start":6704.01,"end":6706.01,"text":"那麼這一部分"},{"start":6706.01,"end":6708.01,"text":"我做簡單的一個說明"},{"start":6708.01,"end":6710.01,"text":"第二點剛才蔡委員"},{"start":6710.01,"end":6712.01,"text":"蔡教授提到"},{"start":6712.01,"end":6714.01,"text":"就是針對小額退稅"},{"start":6714.01,"end":6716.01,"text":"的這一部分"},{"start":6716.01,"end":6718.01,"text":"是不是要取消"},{"start":6718.01,"end":6720.01,"text":"大家都知道最近美國也好"},{"start":6720.01,"end":6722.01,"text":"歐盟也好"},{"start":6722.01,"end":6724.01,"text":"因為有一些小額"},{"start":6724.01,"end":6726.01,"text":"退稅有一些後遺症"},{"start":6726.01,"end":6728.01,"text":"所以他們都已經取消"},{"start":6730.01,"end":6732.01,"text":"那我們要不要跟進"},{"start":6732.01,"end":6734.01,"text":"其實這個涉及到"},{"start":6734.01,"end":6736.01,"text":"國際的事務"},{"start":6736.01,"end":6738.01,"text":"所以這一部分"},{"start":6738.01,"end":6740.01,"text":"因為這個是互惠的"},{"start":6740.01,"end":6742.01,"text":"這是互惠的"},{"start":6742.01,"end":6744.01,"text":"所以這一部分我們要不要"},{"start":6744.01,"end":6746.01,"text":"跟著美國或者歐盟"},{"start":6746.01,"end":6748.01,"text":"來取消"},{"start":6748.01,"end":6750.01,"text":"我們這一部分會充分的"},{"start":6750.01,"end":6752.01,"text":"審慎加以考量"},{"start":6752.01,"end":6754.01,"text":"特別是關注其他國家"},{"start":6754.01,"end":6756.01,"text":"的一些做法"},{"start":6756.01,"end":6758.01,"text":"那麼我們會做妥適來處理"},{"start":6758.01,"end":6760.01,"text":"那麼剛才"},{"start":6760.01,"end":6762.01,"text":"這個張教授"},{"start":6762.01,"end":6764.01,"text":"張七路張教授"},{"start":6764.01,"end":6766.01,"text":"來了我想他講了"},{"start":6766.01,"end":6768.01,"text":"很多因為他是過去"},{"start":6768.01,"end":6770.01,"text":"蔡委會所以他"},{"start":6770.01,"end":6772.01,"text":"這方面特別的熟悉"},{"start":6772.01,"end":6774.01,"text":"我不是說熟悉"},{"start":6774.01,"end":6776.01,"text":"就是說他講的東西"},{"start":6776.01,"end":6778.01,"text":"跟財政部有密切的"},{"start":6778.01,"end":6780.01,"text":"關聯所以我在這邊"},{"start":6780.01,"end":6782.01,"text":"我做簡單的"},{"start":6782.01,"end":6784.01,"text":"回應一下"},{"start":6784.01,"end":6786.01,"text":"事實上剛才張教授"},{"start":6786.01,"end":6788.01,"text":"講的東西其實都非常的"},{"start":6788.01,"end":6790.01,"text":"關鍵"},{"start":6790.01,"end":6792.01,"text":"事實上我們過去的"},{"start":6792.01,"end":6794.01,"text":"產業政策都是透過"},{"start":6794.01,"end":6796.01,"text":"很多都是透過"},{"start":6796.01,"end":6798.01,"text":"租稅的獎勵"},{"start":6798.01,"end":6800.01,"text":"來從這個"},{"start":6800.01,"end":6802.01,"text":"創新的研發"},{"start":6802.01,"end":6804.01,"text":"或者是出現這個"},{"start":6803.76,"end":6805.76,"text":"智慧轉型或者是"},{"start":6805.76,"end":6807.76,"text":"新創發展等等幾個面向"},{"start":6807.76,"end":6809.76,"text":"那麼來提供相關的"},{"start":6809.76,"end":6811.76,"text":"租稅優惠措施來協助"},{"start":6811.76,"end":6813.76,"text":"產業升旗"},{"start":6813.76,"end":6815.76,"text":"當然產創條例"},{"start":6815.76,"end":6817.76,"text":"雖然是說"},{"start":6817.76,"end":6819.76,"text":"沒有產業別的限制也沒有"},{"start":6819.76,"end":6821.76,"text":"規模限制但事實上"},{"start":6821.76,"end":6823.76,"text":"大部分適用的對象"},{"start":6823.76,"end":6825.76,"text":"大家都知道大部分的都是"},{"start":6825.76,"end":6827.76,"text":"大企業在享受"},{"start":6827.76,"end":6829.76,"text":"所以我們最近"},{"start":6829.76,"end":6831.76,"text":"也注意到這個"},{"start":6831.76,"end":6833.76,"text":"問題我們針對中小企業"},{"start":6833.76,"end":6835.76,"text":"除了中小企業發展條例之外"},{"start":6835.76,"end":6837.76,"text":"那麼我們最近"},{"start":6837.76,"end":6839.76,"text":"也在配合"},{"start":6839.76,"end":6841.76,"text":"相關的部會"},{"start":6841.76,"end":6843.76,"text":"在研擬一個中小微的企業"},{"start":6843.76,"end":6845.76,"text":"轉型升級的發展條例"},{"start":6845.76,"end":6847.76,"text":"修正草案"},{"start":6847.76,"end":6849.76,"text":"針對中小企業的特殊性"},{"start":6849.76,"end":6851.76,"text":"那麼"},{"start":6851.76,"end":6853.76,"text":"優化現行的租稅優惠"},{"start":6853.76,"end":6855.76,"text":"希望能夠"},{"start":6855.76,"end":6857.76,"text":"把這個相關的租稅優惠"},{"start":6857.76,"end":6859.76,"text":"能夠切合中小企業的"},{"start":6859.76,"end":6861.76,"text":"需求"},{"start":6861.76,"end":6863.76,"text":"不過我要強調租稅只是一個"},{"start":6863.76,"end":6865.76,"text":"輔助的措施"},{"start":6865.76,"end":6867.76,"text":"絕對不是一個"},{"start":6867.76,"end":6869.76,"text":"促進產業升級的關鍵"},{"start":6869.76,"end":6871.76,"text":"我想這一點大家都能夠認同"},{"start":6871.76,"end":6873.76,"text":"這是一點"},{"start":6873.76,"end":6875.76,"text":"第二點我想這個促進產業的發展"},{"start":6875.76,"end":6877.76,"text":"除了租稅獎勵之外"},{"start":6877.76,"end":6879.76,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":6879.76,"end":6881.76,"text":"金融的資源是非常重要的"},{"start":6881.76,"end":6883.76,"text":"比如說最近的"},{"start":6883.76,"end":6885.76,"text":"台美關稅"},{"start":6885.59,"end":6887.59,"text":"台美關稅"},{"start":6887.59,"end":6889.59,"text":"剛開始的時候我們被宣布"},{"start":6889.59,"end":6891.59,"text":"我們客製的關稅率"},{"start":6891.59,"end":6893.59,"text":"達到32%"},{"start":6893.59,"end":6895.59,"text":"所以那時候政府還有民間"},{"start":6895.59,"end":6897.59,"text":"都非常的緊張"},{"start":6897.59,"end":6899.59,"text":"所以那時候我們提供相關的"},{"start":6899.59,"end":6901.59,"text":"支持的措施"},{"start":6901.59,"end":6903.59,"text":"從114年8月7號"},{"start":6903.59,"end":6905.59,"text":"開始就提供"},{"start":6905.59,"end":6907.59,"text":"這個付額條件的出口廠商"},{"start":6907.59,"end":6909.59,"text":"那麼就"},{"start":6909.59,"end":6911.59,"text":"可以有一個融資利息"},{"start":6911.59,"end":6913.59,"text":"減碼的措施"},{"start":6913.59,"end":6915.59,"text":"在11月6日底"},{"start":6915.59,"end":6917.59,"text":"已經協助了4000多家的廠商"},{"start":6917.59,"end":6919.59,"text":"減收利息達到將近40億"},{"start":6919.59,"end":6921.59,"text":"其中中華企業"},{"start":6921.59,"end":6923.59,"text":"大概4萬"},{"start":6923.59,"end":6925.59,"text":"4000家"},{"start":6925.59,"end":6927.59,"text":"減收利息"},{"start":6927.59,"end":6929.59,"text":"也是相當高"},{"start":6931.54,"end":6933.54,"text":"那另外就是"},{"start":6933.54,"end":6935.54,"text":"我要特別報告就是為了"},{"start":6935.54,"end":6937.54,"text":"因應中小企業的需求"},{"start":6937.54,"end":6939.54,"text":"因為中小企業"},{"start":6939.54,"end":6941.54,"text":"在我們國內比例非常高"},{"start":6941.54,"end":6943.54,"text":"非常非常高"},{"start":6943.54,"end":6945.54,"text":"那為了協助中小企業取得"},{"start":6945.54,"end":6947.54,"text":"營運跟發展資金的需要"},{"start":6947.54,"end":6949.54,"text":"那麼宮古行庫配合"},{"start":6949.54,"end":6951.54,"text":"相關的部會像國發會"},{"start":6951.54,"end":6953.54,"text":"經濟部那我們就推辦"},{"start":6953.54,"end":6955.54,"text":"很多政治性的貸款"},{"start":6955.54,"end":6957.54,"text":"那麼"},{"start":6957.54,"end":6959.54,"text":"依照企業的需求提供"},{"start":6959.54,"end":6961.54,"text":"像周轉金剛才張教授"},{"start":6961.54,"end":6963.54,"text":"也提到周轉金"},{"start":6963.54,"end":6965.54,"text":"還有資本性的支出"},{"start":6965.54,"end":6967.54,"text":"還有營運資金的相關融資"},{"start":6967.54,"end":6969.54,"text":"的協助"},{"start":6969.54,"end":6971.54,"text":"到今年6月底"},{"start":6971.54,"end":6973.54,"text":"宮古行庫對中小企業"},{"start":6973.54,"end":6975.54,"text":"放款的戶數達到"},{"start":6975.54,"end":6977.54,"text":"28萬多戶"},{"start":6977.54,"end":6979.54,"text":"放款餘額達到6.8"},{"start":6979.54,"end":6981.54,"text":"6.08兆"},{"start":6981.54,"end":6983.54,"text":"比去年增加了"},{"start":6983.54,"end":6985.54,"text":"4.8%"},{"start":6985.89,"end":6987.89,"text":"那"},{"start":6987.89,"end":6989.89,"text":"第三個我要跟各位報告"},{"start":6989.89,"end":6991.89,"text":"除了剛才政治性的"},{"start":6991.89,"end":6993.89,"text":"這些金融協助"},{"start":6993.89,"end":6995.89,"text":"之外我們宮古行庫"},{"start":6995.89,"end":6997.89,"text":"我們也督導宮古行庫"},{"start":6997.89,"end":6999.89,"text":"按照用他自己的"},{"start":6999.89,"end":7001.89,"text":"這個"},{"start":7001.89,"end":7003.89,"text":"自由資金"},{"start":7003.89,"end":7005.89,"text":"那麼就推出一個中小"},{"start":7005.89,"end":7007.89,"text":"及微型企業"},{"start":7007.89,"end":7009.89,"text":"振興的融資方案"},{"start":7009.89,"end":7011.89,"text":"那麼額度是3兆"},{"start":7011.89,"end":7013.89,"text":"到目前已經"},{"start":7013.89,"end":7015.89,"text":"帶走了2兆"},{"start":7015.89,"end":7017.89,"text":"那麼"},{"start":7017.89,"end":7019.89,"text":"可見民間的企業"},{"start":7019.89,"end":7021.89,"text":"對資金的需求非常的殷切"},{"start":7021.89,"end":7023.89,"text":"那所以"},{"start":7023.89,"end":7025.89,"text":"這一部分我們預定是在"},{"start":7025.89,"end":7027.89,"text":"明年的社會底會"},{"start":7027.89,"end":7029.89,"text":"屆滿"},{"start":7029.89,"end":7031.89,"text":"但是現在已經核帶了"},{"start":7031.89,"end":7033.89,"text":"2.2兆"},{"start":7033.89,"end":7035.89,"text":"總額在3兆"},{"start":7035.89,"end":7037.89,"text":"所以我們在考慮"},{"start":7037.89,"end":7039.89,"text":"如果企業界有需求的話"},{"start":7039.89,"end":7041.89,"text":"我們到時候再跟宮古行庫"},{"start":7041.89,"end":7043.89,"text":"來協商看是不是來提高"},{"start":7043.89,"end":7045.89,"text":"相關的這個"},{"start":7045.89,"end":7047.89,"text":"貸款的額度"},{"start":7047.89,"end":7049.89,"text":"來滿足企業"},{"start":7049.89,"end":7051.89,"text":"這個他的"},{"start":7051.89,"end":7053.89,"text":"這個經營的需求"},{"start":7053.89,"end":7055.89,"text":"那另外有一點就是剛才"},{"start":7055.89,"end":7057.89,"text":"講到說那我們企業"},{"start":7057.89,"end":7059.89,"text":"發展"},{"start":7059.16,"end":7061.16,"text":"可以形化發展"},{"start":7061.16,"end":7063.16,"text":"有些發展很好"},{"start":7063.16,"end":7065.16,"text":"有些發展的不好"},{"start":7063.53,"end":7065.53,"text":"那剛才講說"},{"start":7065.53,"end":7067.53,"text":"那些發展好的能不能回饋到"},{"start":7067.53,"end":7069.53,"text":"我們的一些弱勢的團體"},{"start":7069.53,"end":7071.53,"text":"團體"},{"start":7071.53,"end":7073.53,"text":"那這一部分我也跟各位報告"},{"start":7073.53,"end":7075.53,"text":"一點就是說我們會"},{"start":7075.53,"end":7077.53,"text":"財政部會持續推動"},{"start":7077.53,"end":7079.53,"text":"各項的稅制改革"},{"start":7079.53,"end":7081.53,"text":"讓高資產"},{"start":7081.53,"end":7083.53,"text":"跟高所得者負擔合理的"},{"start":7083.53,"end":7085.53,"text":"稅賦"},{"start":7085.53,"end":7087.53,"text":"比如說這個我們會"},{"start":7087.53,"end":7089.53,"text":"精進房地合一所"},{"start":7089.53,"end":7091.53,"text":"的稅的稅制那麼最高的稅率"},{"start":7091.53,"end":7093.53,"text":"達到45%"},{"start":7093.53,"end":7095.53,"text":"而且將房地合一稅的稅收"},{"start":7095.53,"end":7097.53,"text":"那麼就"},{"start":7097.53,"end":7099.53,"text":"作為這個長照的支出"},{"start":7099.53,"end":7101.53,"text":"或者是住宅政治的支出"},{"start":7101.53,"end":7103.53,"text":"來改善所得分配"},{"start":7103.53,"end":7105.53,"text":"那麼十四以來"},{"start":7105.53,"end":7107.53,"text":"房地合一稅的所得稅"},{"start":7107.53,"end":7109.53,"text":"的依住長照"},{"start":7109.53,"end":7111.53,"text":"支出達到3200多億"},{"start":7111.53,"end":7113.53,"text":"那麼另外"},{"start":7113.53,"end":7115.53,"text":"從113年1月到"},{"start":7115.53,"end":7117.53,"text":"115年6月起"},{"start":7117.53,"end":7119.53,"text":"依住住宅支出達到"},{"start":7119.53,"end":7121.53,"text":"超過300億元"},{"start":7121.53,"end":7123.53,"text":"另外"},{"start":7123.53,"end":7125.53,"text":"我覺得很重要一點就是說"},{"start":7125.53,"end":7127.53,"text":"我們除了希望"},{"start":7127.53,"end":7129.53,"text":"我們的產業越來越大越來越"},{"start":7129.53,"end":7131.53,"text":"強之外我們希望就是"},{"start":7131.53,"end":7133.53,"text":"我們拿到的稅收"},{"start":7133.53,"end":7135.53,"text":"那麼我們可以回饋到"},{"start":7135.53,"end":7137.53,"text":"一般的弱勢團體"},{"start":7137.53,"end":7139.53,"text":"所以我們在"},{"start":7139.53,"end":7141.53,"text":"稅制上我們就在減輕"},{"start":7141.53,"end":7143.53,"text":"受雇的勞工育兒"},{"start":7143.53,"end":7145.53,"text":"還有高齡"},{"start":7145.53,"end":7147.53,"text":"身障或者是租屋家庭"},{"start":7147.53,"end":7149.53,"text":"的租稅負擔"},{"start":7149.53,"end":7151.53,"text":"比如說像最近我們就是"},{"start":7151.53,"end":7153.53,"text":"優化所得稅制"},{"start":7153.53,"end":7155.53,"text":"那麼對基本的生活所需要的"},{"start":7155.53,"end":7157.53,"text":"費用不予課稅"},{"start":7157.53,"end":7159.53,"text":"那另外我們也提高"},{"start":7159.53,"end":7161.53,"text":"這個標準扣除額"},{"start":7161.53,"end":7163.53,"text":"等四項的扣除額"},{"start":7163.53,"end":7165.53,"text":"那另外我們也"},{"start":7165.53,"end":7167.53,"text":"這個擴大並提高"},{"start":7167.53,"end":7169.53,"text":"幼兒學前的"},{"start":7169.53,"end":7171.53,"text":"特別扣除額"},{"start":7171.53,"end":7173.53,"text":"並將房屋的"},{"start":7173.53,"end":7175.53,"text":"租資改為這個"},{"start":7175.53,"end":7177.53,"text":"特別扣除額並調高扣除額度"},{"start":7177.53,"end":7179.53,"text":"也就達到"},{"start":7179.53,"end":7181.53,"text":"18萬元"},{"start":7181.53,"end":7183.53,"text":"那麼另外也調高"},{"start":7183.53,"end":7185.53,"text":"長照的扣除額度"},{"start":7185.53,"end":7187.53,"text":"達到18萬元"},{"start":7187.53,"end":7189.53,"text":"那另外當然我們"},{"start":7189.53,"end":7191.53,"text":"還有配合物價調整相關的"},{"start":7191.53,"end":7193.53,"text":"這個免稅額"},{"start":7193.53,"end":7195.53,"text":"還有相關稅率集計的"},{"start":7195.53,"end":7197.53,"text":"問題"},{"start":7197.53,"end":7199.53,"text":"那我跟各位報告一點"},{"start":7199.53,"end":7201.53,"text":"那根據我們的統計"},{"start":7201.53,"end":7203.53,"text":"113年度全國申報戶"},{"start":7203.53,"end":7205.53,"text":"列報總扣除額"},{"start":7205.53,"end":7207.53,"text":"扣除額"},{"start":7207.53,"end":7209.53,"text":"我現在講扣除額占全國的"},{"start":7209.53,"end":7211.53,"text":"綜合所得總額比例"},{"start":7211.53,"end":7213.53,"text":"達到多少"},{"start":7213.53,"end":7215.53,"text":"59%也就是41%"},{"start":7215.53,"end":7217.53,"text":"會被課稅"},{"start":7217.53,"end":7219.53,"text":"59%都課不到稅"},{"start":7219.53,"end":7221.53,"text":"那如果用加戶"},{"start":7221.53,"end":7223.53,"text":"納稅的情形來分析的話"},{"start":7223.53,"end":7225.53,"text":"有317萬戶"},{"start":7225.53,"end":7227.53,"text":"317萬戶"},{"start":7227.53,"end":7229.53,"text":"也就是占"},{"start":7229.53,"end":7231.53,"text":"總申報數的45%"},{"start":7231.53,"end":7233.53,"text":"那是不需要繳稅的"},{"start":7233.53,"end":7235.53,"text":"稅率是0的"},{"start":7235.53,"end":7237.53,"text":"那麼247萬戶"},{"start":7237.53,"end":7239.53,"text":"那麼占比是35%"},{"start":7239.53,"end":7241.53,"text":"那麼他的稅率是5%"},{"start":7241.53,"end":7243.53,"text":"5%"},{"start":7243.53,"end":7245.53,"text":"所以把這兩個加起來的話"},{"start":7245.53,"end":7247.53,"text":"那麼是用0稅率跟5%"},{"start":7247.53,"end":7249.53,"text":"加起來"},{"start":7249.53,"end":7251.53,"text":"就是8成"},{"start":7251.53,"end":7253.53,"text":"就是80%"},{"start":7253.53,"end":7255.53,"text":"那麼他是可以講說是"},{"start":7255.53,"end":7257.53,"text":"這一部分來講"},{"start":7257.53,"end":7259.53,"text":"也是實現政府"},{"start":7259.53,"end":7261.53,"text":"相對的"},{"start":7261.53,"end":7263.53,"text":"弱勢的"},{"start":7263.53,"end":7265.53,"text":"包括新思所得者"},{"start":7265.53,"end":7267.53,"text":"跟終底所得者的家庭的目的"},{"start":7267.53,"end":7269.53,"text":"那另外相對來講"},{"start":7270.12,"end":7272.12,"text":"同一個年度"},{"start":7272.12,"end":7274.12,"text":"那麼中和所得稅結論申報"},{"start":7274.12,"end":7276.12,"text":"是用最高稅率的40%的"},{"start":7276.12,"end":7278.12,"text":"高所得者"},{"start":7278.12,"end":7280.12,"text":"那麼占總申報數"},{"start":7279.84,"end":7281.84,"text":"申報數的比重才1%"},{"start":7281.84,"end":7283.84,"text":"可是他負擔的稅"},{"start":7283.84,"end":7285.84,"text":"是多少"},{"start":7285.84,"end":7287.84,"text":"他繳納的稅是占比將近50%"},{"start":7287.84,"end":7289.84,"text":"也是1%的人"},{"start":7289.84,"end":7291.84,"text":"他繳的稅"},{"start":7291.84,"end":7293.84,"text":"占將近50%"},{"start":7293.84,"end":7295.84,"text":"所以我們就是希望"},{"start":7295.84,"end":7297.84,"text":"能夠透過量能課稅"},{"start":7297.84,"end":7299.84,"text":"來促進"},{"start":7299.84,"end":7301.84,"text":"租稅的公平"},{"start":7301.84,"end":7303.84,"text":"讓我們的一些稅收能夠"},{"start":7303.84,"end":7305.84,"text":"除了增加我們稅收之外"},{"start":7305.84,"end":7307.84,"text":"我們希望用這樣的稅收"},{"start":7307.84,"end":7309.84,"text":"來協助那些弱勢團體"},{"start":7309.84,"end":7311.84,"text":"那最後一點"},{"start":7311.84,"end":7313.84,"text":"我補充一點就是"},{"start":7313.84,"end":7315.84,"text":"我們透過租稅手段"},{"start":7315.84,"end":7317.84,"text":"但是很多人沒辦法"},{"start":7317.84,"end":7319.84,"text":"適用租稅的優惠"},{"start":7319.84,"end":7321.84,"text":"沒辦法適用租稅優惠"},{"start":7321.84,"end":7323.84,"text":"因為他就是零"},{"start":7323.24,"end":7325.24,"text":"適用租稅是零"},{"start":7325.24,"end":7327.24,"text":"所以我們要做什麼事情"},{"start":7327.24,"end":7329.24,"text":"移轉支出是很重要的一件事情"},{"start":7331.97,"end":7333.97,"text":"考量到部分的民眾"},{"start":7333.97,"end":7335.97,"text":"沒辦法透過租金減免來協助"},{"start":7335.97,"end":7337.97,"text":"所以剛才我講說"},{"start":7337.97,"end":7339.97,"text":"一定要透過"},{"start":7339.97,"end":7341.97,"text":"這個"},{"start":7341.97,"end":7343.97,"text":"這個移轉支出"},{"start":7345.85,"end":7347.85,"text":"我跟各位報告"},{"start":7347.85,"end":7349.85,"text":"我們現在的總預算"},{"start":7349.85,"end":7351.85,"text":"我們總預算裡面"},{"start":7351.85,"end":7353.85,"text":"那麼這個社福支出的"},{"start":7353.85,"end":7355.85,"text":"佔比一項都到"},{"start":7355.85,"end":7357.85,"text":"26.5%到27.5%之間"},{"start":7357.85,"end":7359.85,"text":"是我們現在"},{"start":7359.85,"end":7361.85,"text":"所有的政務支出當中"},{"start":7361.85,"end":7363.85,"text":"比重是最高的"},{"start":7363.85,"end":7365.85,"text":"那麼這用在哪裡"},{"start":7365.85,"end":7367.85,"text":"用在社會的給付"},{"start":7367.85,"end":7369.85,"text":"用在社會保險社會救助"},{"start":7369.85,"end":7371.85,"text":"還有相關的社會福利等等"},{"start":7371.85,"end":7373.85,"text":"來協助真正需要協助的人"},{"start":7373.85,"end":7375.85,"text":"那另外"},{"start":7375.85,"end":7377.85,"text":"我們也提供比如像"},{"start":7377.85,"end":7379.85,"text":"最近有很多人有些有房子"},{"start":7379.85,"end":7381.85,"text":"有些沒有房子"},{"start":7381.85,"end":7383.85,"text":"那對沒有房子的人我們提供這個相關的"},{"start":7383.85,"end":7385.85,"text":"房租的補貼"},{"start":7385.85,"end":7387.85,"text":"那對想要購房的我們提供"},{"start":7387.85,"end":7389.85,"text":"清安的這個利息的補貼"},{"start":7389.85,"end":7391.85,"text":"剛才莊教授提到說"},{"start":7391.85,"end":7393.85,"text":"好像這個好像不是很完整"},{"start":7393.85,"end":7395.85,"text":"不過這部分我們會逐步來檢討"},{"start":7395.85,"end":7397.85,"text":"另外"},{"start":7397.85,"end":7399.85,"text":"興建撤載"},{"start":7399.85,"end":7401.85,"text":"我覺得這個很重要"},{"start":7401.85,"end":7403.85,"text":"我們知道歐洲很多國家"},{"start":7403.85,"end":7405.85,"text":"他自由住宅的比例都很低的"},{"start":7405.85,"end":7407.85,"text":"他大部分都是用租的"},{"start":7407.85,"end":7409.85,"text":"大家都很清楚"},{"start":7409.85,"end":7411.85,"text":"所以我們就是要透過社會住宅"},{"start":7411.85,"end":7413.85,"text":"將來看能不能就是"},{"start":7413.85,"end":7415.85,"text":"以租代買"},{"start":7415.85,"end":7417.85,"text":"讓這個居住正義"},{"start":7417.85,"end":7419.85,"text":"能夠落實"},{"start":7419.85,"end":7421.85,"text":"那另外最近大家都從"},{"start":7421.85,"end":7423.85,"text":"在媒體上可以看到我們政府"},{"start":7423.85,"end":7425.85,"text":"在推動台灣人口的對策的"},{"start":7425.85,"end":7427.85,"text":"新戰略"},{"start":7427.85,"end":7429.85,"text":"家庭支持篇"},{"start":7429.85,"end":7431.85,"text":"透過這個"},{"start":7431.85,"end":7433.85,"text":"從這個生育"},{"start":7433.85,"end":7435.85,"text":"養育還有就是教育"},{"start":7435.85,"end":7437.85,"text":"三大階段提出這個十八項"},{"start":7437.85,"end":7439.85,"text":"措施"},{"start":7439.85,"end":7441.85,"text":"那這個我就不用講太多"},{"start":7441.85,"end":7443.85,"text":"因為最近才有最新的報導"},{"start":7443.85,"end":7445.85,"text":"所以我不用講太多"},{"start":7445.85,"end":7447.85,"text":"我特別強調一點成長帳戶"},{"start":7447.85,"end":7449.85,"text":"那這一部分"},{"start":7449.85,"end":7451.85,"text":"適用對象是零到十八歲"},{"start":7451.85,"end":7453.85,"text":"最少可以零到多少"},{"start":7453.85,"end":7455.85,"text":"我們算起來最少是零到"},{"start":7455.85,"end":7457.85,"text":"一百零八萬"},{"start":7457.85,"end":7459.85,"text":"那是本金"},{"start":7459.85,"end":7461.85,"text":"如果是有操作收益的話"},{"start":7461.85,"end":7463.85,"text":"那就更多"},{"start":7463.85,"end":7465.85,"text":"所以這一部分我們就是"},{"start":7465.85,"end":7467.85,"text":"希望就是說"},{"start":7467.85,"end":7469.85,"text":"我們把多的稅收"},{"start":7469.85,"end":7471.85,"text":"我們不是用來普發"},{"start":7471.85,"end":7473.85,"text":"而是用在真正需要"},{"start":7473.85,"end":7475.85,"text":"幫助的人身上"},{"start":7475.85,"end":7477.85,"text":"這個很重要"},{"start":7477.85,"end":7479.85,"text":"那最後一點我特別"},{"start":7479.85,"end":7481.85,"text":"報告就是K型化的經濟"},{"start":7481.85,"end":7483.85,"text":"不是台灣這樣"},{"start":7483.85,"end":7485.85,"text":"這個是各國"},{"start":7485.85,"end":7487.85,"text":"各國共同面臨的一個挑戰"},{"start":7487.85,"end":7489.85,"text":"所以我們必須要"},{"start":7489.85,"end":7491.85,"text":"密切關注其他國家的"},{"start":7491.85,"end":7493.85,"text":"一些具體做法"},{"start":7493.85,"end":7495.85,"text":"在適合我們的國情"},{"start":7495.85,"end":7497.85,"text":"還有財政可以負擔的範圍內"},{"start":7497.85,"end":7499.85,"text":"那麼積極提供各項的具體政策"},{"start":7499.85,"end":7501.85,"text":"來建構"},{"start":7501.85,"end":7503.85,"text":"更公平合理的社會"},{"start":7503.85,"end":7505.85,"text":"我們希望我們的稅收"},{"start":7505.85,"end":7507.85,"text":"不僅可以來支應"},{"start":7507.85,"end":7509.85,"text":"我們一般的政務支出"},{"start":7509.85,"end":7511.85,"text":"更希望能夠"},{"start":7511.85,"end":7513.85,"text":"把這些稅收能夠來協助"},{"start":7513.85,"end":7515.85,"text":"那些真正需要"},{"start":7515.85,"end":7517.85,"text":"幫助的弱勢團體"},{"start":7517.85,"end":7519.85,"text":"那我們建構一個"},{"start":7519.85,"end":7521.85,"text":"就是一方面有個成長"},{"start":7521.85,"end":7523.85,"text":"又可以平衡的"},{"start":7523.85,"end":7525.85,"text":"一個這樣的一個社會"},{"start":7525.85,"end":7527.85,"text":"以上做報告謝謝"},{"start":7527.85,"end":7529.85,"text":"好謝謝阮正士"},{"start":7529.85,"end":7531.85,"text":"剛剛的回應跟說明"},{"start":7531.85,"end":7533.85,"text":"除了現在立法院"},{"start":7533.85,"end":7535.85,"text":"也好行政院也好"},{"start":7535.85,"end":7537.85,"text":"提出來相關的在教文"},{"start":7537.85,"end":7539.85,"text":"在社服上的一些很多的議題"},{"start":7539.85,"end":7541.85,"text":"希望照顧更多的"},{"start":7541.85,"end":7543.85,"text":"國人之外"},{"start":7543.85,"end":7545.85,"text":"我們更期待的是財政部也"},{"start":7545.85,"end":7547.85,"text":"藉今天公聽會"},{"start":7547.85,"end":7549.85,"text":"聽到各個專家學者"},{"start":7549.85,"end":7551.85,"text":"教授還有產業面"},{"start":7551.85,"end":7553.85,"text":"面臨的問題政策上"},{"start":7553.85,"end":7555.85,"text":"應該有更多不同的工具"},{"start":7555.85,"end":7557.85,"text":"來解決了解"},{"start":7557.85,"end":7559.85,"text":"除了剛剛我們提的教育"},{"start":7559.85,"end":7561.85,"text":"社服做更多的"},{"start":7561.85,"end":7563.85,"text":"公共建設之外"},{"start":7563.85,"end":7565.85,"text":"現在台灣的主要的"},{"start":7565.85,"end":7567.85,"text":"產業面各個產業無論是"},{"start":7567.85,"end":7569.85,"text":"傳產還是過去"},{"start":7569.85,"end":7571.85,"text":"再生醫療等等"},{"start":7571.85,"end":7573.85,"text":"我覺得政府在現階段"},{"start":7573.85,"end":7575.85,"text":"應該要思考用更多"},{"start":7575.85,"end":7577.85,"text":"跨部會的工具來解決"},{"start":7577.85,"end":7579.85,"text":"協助他們這個是我希望"},{"start":7579.85,"end":7581.85,"text":"後續今天我們有回應到"},{"start":7581.85,"end":7583.85,"text":"希望財政部相關部會"},{"start":7583.85,"end":7585.85,"text":"一併提出更多的好的政策"},{"start":7585.85,"end":7587.85,"text":"來解決相關的問題"},{"start":7587.85,"end":7589.85,"text":"第二位我邀請我們金管會"},{"start":7589.85,"end":7591.85,"text":"的副主委陳副主委"},{"start":7591.85,"end":7593.85,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7603.47,"end":7605.47,"text":"主席各委員"},{"start":7605.47,"end":7607.47,"text":"以及各位一個先進"},{"start":7607.47,"end":7609.47,"text":"今天我們財政委員會"},{"start":7609.47,"end":7611.47,"text":"召開面對K型經濟問題"},{"start":7611.47,"end":7613.47,"text":"行政部門如何"},{"start":7613.47,"end":7615.47,"text":"引導經濟成果"},{"start":7615.47,"end":7617.47,"text":"均衡發展分配"},{"start":7617.47,"end":7619.47,"text":"於全體勞工在這個地方"},{"start":7619.47,"end":7621.47,"text":"對於這個K型經濟"},{"start":7621.47,"end":7623.47,"text":"的一個風險或這一些"},{"start":7623.47,"end":7625.47,"text":"以及如何將成果的"},{"start":7625.47,"end":7627.47,"text":"引導其實金管會在"},{"start":7627.47,"end":7629.47,"text":"這邊大概有兩個的"},{"start":7629.47,"end":7631.47,"text":"雙軌並進的方式"},{"start":7631.47,"end":7633.47,"text":"當然第一個是所謂的資本市場"},{"start":7633.47,"end":7635.47,"text":"的部分"},{"start":7635.47,"end":7637.47,"text":"第二個是一個金融服務"},{"start":7637.47,"end":7639.47,"text":"的部分當然我也先"},{"start":7639.47,"end":7641.47,"text":"針對賴委員"},{"start":7641.47,"end":7643.47,"text":"賴時保賴委員有提到的剛才提到一個"},{"start":7643.47,"end":7645.47,"text":"浦域指數的一個部分"},{"start":7645.47,"end":7647.47,"text":"那我們能理解"},{"start":7647.47,"end":7649.47,"text":"其實現在的確"},{"start":7649.47,"end":7651.47,"text":"是有一個兩極化"},{"start":7651.47,"end":7653.47,"text":"的一個走法"},{"start":7653.47,"end":7655.47,"text":"K型經濟兩極化的走法"},{"start":7655.47,"end":7657.47,"text":"而浦域系列不是為了浦域"},{"start":7657.47,"end":7659.47,"text":"而浦域而是其實真正"},{"start":7659.47,"end":7661.47,"text":"的一個"},{"start":7661.16,"end":7663.16,"text":"我們思考點是一個提升"},{"start":7663.16,"end":7665.16,"text":"能見度"},{"start":7665.16,"end":7667.16,"text":"提升能見度"},{"start":7667.16,"end":7669.16,"text":"提升能見度讓這一些"},{"start":7669.16,"end":7671.16,"text":"其實是優秀而好的"},{"start":7671.16,"end":7673.16,"text":"中小企業"},{"start":7673.16,"end":7675.16,"text":"也能讓我們的"},{"start":7675.16,"end":7677.16,"text":"投資市場資本市場看得見"},{"start":7677.16,"end":7679.16,"text":"所以是說在這個地方"},{"start":7679.16,"end":7681.16,"text":"我們透過法人說明會"},{"start":7681.16,"end":7683.16,"text":"產業論壇或企業價值"},{"start":7683.16,"end":7685.16,"text":"提升計畫在這些"},{"start":7685.16,"end":7687.16,"text":"再搭配上一個所謂的浦域指數"},{"start":7687.16,"end":7689.16,"text":"而浦域指數在這個"},{"start":7689.16,"end":7691.16,"text":"地方其實我們常常講"},{"start":7691.16,"end":7693.16,"text":"一開始一定是技術先行"},{"start":7693.16,"end":7695.16,"text":"在商業模式"},{"start":7695.16,"end":7697.16,"text":"我們不單單會針對一個所謂"},{"start":7697.16,"end":7699.16,"text":"好的中小企業這個"},{"start":7699.16,"end":7701.16,"text":"部分其實比如說高價值"},{"start":7701.16,"end":7703.16,"text":"高動能成長"},{"start":7703.16,"end":7705.16,"text":"我們會一個系列式的"},{"start":7705.16,"end":7707.16,"text":"一個退出我想再加上"},{"start":7707.16,"end":7709.16,"text":"將來的也有可能會在"},{"start":7709.16,"end":7711.16,"text":"商業模式進來變成"},{"start":7711.16,"end":7713.16,"text":"一個ETF的指數或是"},{"start":7713.16,"end":7715.16,"text":"商品我想是慢慢的"},{"start":7715.16,"end":7717.16,"text":"就會提升了"},{"start":7717.16,"end":7719.16,"text":"我們的一個制度性的"},{"start":7719.16,"end":7721.16,"text":"解決制度性的解決"},{"start":7721.16,"end":7723.16,"text":"我們在資本市場股市中"},{"start":7723.16,"end":7725.16,"text":"大家比較少看到的"},{"start":7725.16,"end":7727.16,"text":"那個部分或現在沒有"},{"start":7727.16,"end":7729.16,"text":"專注到這個部分"},{"start":7729.34,"end":7731.34,"text":"而對於呢我們的資本市場"},{"start":7731.34,"end":7733.34,"text":"促進產業發展成果"},{"start":7733.34,"end":7735.34,"text":"共享其實大概也就是說"},{"start":7735.34,"end":7737.34,"text":"由獲利來"},{"start":7737.34,"end":7739.34,"text":"帶動員工薪酬"},{"start":7739.34,"end":7741.34,"text":"的一個同步提升"},{"start":7741.34,"end":7743.34,"text":"也就是說我們看一下這個數據上面"},{"start":7743.34,"end":7745.34,"text":"在114年度的"},{"start":7745.34,"end":7747.34,"text":"上市櫃公司"},{"start":7747.34,"end":7749.34,"text":"上市櫃公司它的薪資平常"},{"start":7749.34,"end":7751.34,"text":"成長比例是6.79"},{"start":7751.34,"end":7753.34,"text":"上市以及上櫃的是"},{"start":7753.34,"end":7755.34,"text":"3.66"},{"start":7755.34,"end":7757.34,"text":"3.66所以我們大概可以"},{"start":7757.34,"end":7759.34,"text":"看到一個所謂的企業獲利"},{"start":7759.34,"end":7761.34,"text":"跟員工薪酬"},{"start":7761.34,"end":7763.34,"text":"呈現一個同步"},{"start":7763.34,"end":7765.34,"text":"成長的一個"},{"start":7765.87,"end":7767.87,"text":"趨勢"},{"start":7767.87,"end":7769.87,"text":"那再來呢其實"},{"start":7769.87,"end":7771.87,"text":"成果如何化成"},{"start":7771.87,"end":7773.87,"text":"讓員工能享受到"},{"start":7773.87,"end":7775.87,"text":"這我一直強調是制度性"},{"start":7775.87,"end":7777.87,"text":"制度性"},{"start":7777.87,"end":7779.87,"text":"所以是說呢其實在我們的"},{"start":7779.87,"end":7781.87,"text":"113年8月7號的"},{"start":7781.87,"end":7783.87,"text":"我們的證券交易法"},{"start":7783.87,"end":7785.87,"text":"是四條的一個修訂"},{"start":7785.87,"end":7787.87,"text":"這是要求上市櫃公司"},{"start":7787.87,"end":7789.87,"text":"要在"},{"start":7789.87,"end":7791.87,"text":"張誠明定年度盈餘提拨一定比例"},{"start":7791.87,"end":7793.87,"text":"給予基層員工"},{"start":7793.87,"end":7795.87,"text":"調整薪資或分派盈餘"},{"start":7795.87,"end":7797.87,"text":"其實也包括了"},{"start":7797.87,"end":7799.87,"text":"公司法235條之一"},{"start":7799.87,"end":7801.87,"text":"的一個加薪的"},{"start":7801.87,"end":7803.87,"text":"以及呢其實除了這個以外"},{"start":7803.87,"end":7805.87,"text":"分紅入骨的一個"},{"start":7805.87,"end":7807.87,"text":"部分的話其實"},{"start":7807.87,"end":7809.87,"text":"我們在所謂公司法167條之一"},{"start":7809.87,"end":7811.87,"text":"267以下其實這都有一個相關的"},{"start":7811.87,"end":7813.87,"text":"一些規定"},{"start":7813.87,"end":7815.87,"text":"這也是透過一個制度性的"},{"start":7815.87,"end":7817.87,"text":"制度性的一個"},{"start":7817.87,"end":7819.87,"text":"解決讓一個"},{"start":7819.87,"end":7821.87,"text":"企業獲利成長"},{"start":7821.71,"end":7823.71,"text":"搭配著員工以及"},{"start":7823.71,"end":7825.71,"text":"我們的特別是基層"},{"start":7825.71,"end":7827.71,"text":"部分也要拿到一定的"},{"start":7827.71,"end":7829.71,"text":"我們的經濟成長"},{"start":7829.71,"end":7831.71,"text":"的一個成果"},{"start":7831.71,"end":7833.71,"text":"而在於我們金管會"},{"start":7833.71,"end":7835.71,"text":"部分我們對於IPO就是說"},{"start":7835.71,"end":7837.71,"text":"要進入我們的"},{"start":7837.71,"end":7839.71,"text":"上市上櫃的我們的"},{"start":7839.71,"end":7841.71,"text":"刺激市場裡面呢他呢"},{"start":7841.71,"end":7843.71,"text":"基層員工也要納入IPO"},{"start":7843.71,"end":7845.71,"text":"的一個審查"},{"start":7845.71,"end":7847.71,"text":"也就是說我們在上市上櫃"},{"start":7847.71,"end":7849.71,"text":"審查準則當中呢"},{"start":7849.71,"end":7851.71,"text":"也要求這些公司呢"},{"start":7851.71,"end":7853.71,"text":"必須揭露員工的"},{"start":7853.71,"end":7855.71,"text":"範圍以及最近一年度呢"},{"start":7855.71,"end":7857.71,"text":"基層員工平均經常性"},{"start":7857.71,"end":7859.71,"text":"薪資要達到基本公司的"},{"start":7859.71,"end":7861.71,"text":"1.3倍"},{"start":7862.25,"end":7864.25,"text":"而在今年呢我們也將"},{"start":7864.25,"end":7866.25,"text":"在全體基層我們現在對於"},{"start":7866.25,"end":7868.25,"text":"新進的就是最"},{"start":7868.25,"end":7870.25,"text":"正常我們的"},{"start":7870.25,"end":7872.25,"text":"新進的基層員工"},{"start":7872.25,"end":7874.25,"text":"新人這個地方呢他的"},{"start":7874.25,"end":7876.25,"text":"薪資也要納入審查"},{"start":7876.25,"end":7878.25,"text":"透過我們的資訊揭露"},{"start":7878.25,"end":7880.25,"text":"跟申請上市櫃的"},{"start":7880.25,"end":7882.25,"text":"一個機制"},{"start":7882.25,"end":7884.25,"text":"引導企業建立合理的"},{"start":7884.25,"end":7886.25,"text":"一個機制"},{"start":7886.25,"end":7888.25,"text":"而在透明度的一個部分呢"},{"start":7888.25,"end":7890.25,"text":"我們也要求"},{"start":7890.25,"end":7892.25,"text":"這個揭露所謂的薪資"},{"start":7892.25,"end":7894.25,"text":"中位數的一個部分"},{"start":7894.25,"end":7896.25,"text":"而對於異常低薪的"},{"start":7896.25,"end":7898.25,"text":"一個公司例如員工"},{"start":7898.25,"end":7900.25,"text":"薪資未滿50萬或"},{"start":7900.25,"end":7902.25,"text":"每股盈餘呢他是成長"},{"start":7902.25,"end":7904.25,"text":"但是呢員工薪資標準"},{"start":7904.25,"end":7906.25,"text":"平均數呢卻"},{"start":7906.25,"end":7908.25,"text":"怎樣呢沒有"},{"start":7908.25,"end":7910.25,"text":"達到一定的成長的時候呢其實"},{"start":7910.25,"end":7912.25,"text":"我們都要他申報"},{"start":7912.25,"end":7914.25,"text":"所謂的經營績效跟員工"},{"start":7914.25,"end":7916.25,"text":"薪酬的一個關聯性"},{"start":7916.25,"end":7918.25,"text":"而在ESG的相關"},{"start":7918.25,"end":7920.25,"text":"的一個評鑑當中呢我們也納入了"},{"start":7920.25,"end":7922.25,"text":"他的一個指數"},{"start":7922.25,"end":7924.25,"text":"在我們的台灣高薪指數以及"},{"start":7924.25,"end":7926.25,"text":"薪酬指數呢這些呢"},{"start":7926.25,"end":7928.25,"text":"也都有讓資金"},{"start":7928.25,"end":7930.25,"text":"引導我們讓社會看到"},{"start":7930.25,"end":7932.25,"text":"這些是好的企業我們"},{"start":7932.25,"end":7934.25,"text":"要引導資金流向"},{"start":7934.25,"end":7936.25,"text":"重視員工"},{"start":7936.25,"end":7938.25,"text":"薪酬跟永續經營的"},{"start":7938.25,"end":7940.25,"text":"一個企業"},{"start":7940.51,"end":7942.51,"text":"資本市場部分其實剛剛"},{"start":7942.51,"end":7944.51,"text":"有提到其實我們也做到一個多層次"},{"start":7944.51,"end":7946.51,"text":"的一個市場"},{"start":7946.51,"end":7948.51,"text":"剛剛劉所長"},{"start":7948.51,"end":7950.51,"text":"劉修夢所長其實有提到"},{"start":7950.51,"end":7952.51,"text":"我們創櫃板我們創櫃板"},{"start":7952.51,"end":7954.51,"text":"在日本也是其實他沒有"},{"start":7954.51,"end":7956.51,"text":"完全沒有一個所謂的最低"},{"start":7956.51,"end":7958.51,"text":"資本額的一個限制"},{"start":7958.51,"end":7960.51,"text":"我們的思考點也是一個所謂的"},{"start":7960.51,"end":7962.51,"text":"加速器的一個概念"},{"start":7962.51,"end":7964.51,"text":"加速器的一個概念或者"},{"start":7964.51,"end":7966.51,"text":"是一個育成"},{"start":7966.51,"end":7968.51,"text":"讓我們呢去免費提供"},{"start":7968.51,"end":7970.51,"text":"一個會計內控制度"},{"start":7970.51,"end":7972.51,"text":"跟資訊揭露跟法律"},{"start":7972.51,"end":7974.51,"text":"而且呢在金融"},{"start":7974.51,"end":7976.51,"text":"服務方面金融服務方面"},{"start":7976.51,"end":7978.51,"text":"我們金管會也持續"},{"start":7978.51,"end":7980.51,"text":"推動本國銀行加強辦理"},{"start":7980.51,"end":7982.51,"text":"中小企業放款的"},{"start":7982.51,"end":7984.51,"text":"一個方案你營造"},{"start":7984.51,"end":7986.51,"text":"有利中小企業融資的"},{"start":7986.51,"end":7988.51,"text":"一個環境我們也會在總經理"},{"start":7988.51,"end":7990.51,"text":"會議上表達表揚"},{"start":7990.51,"end":7992.51,"text":"中小企業放款技巧"},{"start":7992.51,"end":7994.51,"text":"優良的一個銀行"},{"start":7994.51,"end":7996.51,"text":"而保險業部分呢"},{"start":7996.51,"end":7998.51,"text":"我們也會提供的投資跟放款"},{"start":7998.51,"end":8000.51,"text":"以協助我們的產業升級"},{"start":8000.51,"end":8002.51,"text":"跟淨零轉型"},{"start":8003.84,"end":8005.84,"text":"也就是說呢在我們大概"},{"start":8005.84,"end":8007.84,"text":"資本市場金融服務雙北並進"},{"start":8007.84,"end":8009.84,"text":"大概有四個吧第一個是所謂的"},{"start":8009.84,"end":8011.84,"text":"精準的金融支持"},{"start":8012.57,"end":8014.57,"text":"第二協助非AI產業"},{"start":8014.57,"end":8016.57,"text":"這些中小企業能沒看到"},{"start":8016.57,"end":8018.57,"text":"它價值升級而不是一個"},{"start":8018.57,"end":8020.57,"text":"所謂的成長成本的"},{"start":8020.57,"end":8022.57,"text":"一個競爭而三呢"},{"start":8022.57,"end":8024.57,"text":"是一個強化資本市場分配"},{"start":8024.57,"end":8026.57,"text":"成果的一個誘因"},{"start":8026.57,"end":8028.57,"text":"以及呢擴大金融包容"},{"start":8028.57,"end":8030.57,"text":"以及資產形成的"},{"start":8030.57,"end":8032.57,"text":"一個機會這也是呢"},{"start":8032.57,"end":8034.57,"text":"我的金管會一直"},{"start":8034.57,"end":8036.57,"text":"持續努力的目標"},{"start":8036.57,"end":8038.57,"text":"以上"},{"start":8039.11,"end":8041.11,"text":"好謝謝感謝我們陳昱良"},{"start":8041.11,"end":8043.11,"text":"陳昱良金管會的副主委"},{"start":8043.11,"end":8045.11,"text":"接下來我邀請第三位"},{"start":8045.11,"end":8047.11,"text":"我們央行的副總裁"},{"start":8047.11,"end":8049.11,"text":"嚴副總裁"},{"start":8049.11,"end":8051.11,"text":"來做回應謝謝"},{"start":8066.13,"end":8068.13,"text":"主席各位學者專家"},{"start":8068.13,"end":8070.13,"text":"我們央行有三點"},{"start":8070.13,"end":8072.13,"text":"回應意見"},{"start":8072.09,"end":8074.09,"text":"第一點就剛才蔡教授和專教授"},{"start":8074.09,"end":8076.09,"text":"對於央行房地產政策"},{"start":8076.09,"end":8078.09,"text":"的一些"},{"start":8078.57,"end":8080.57,"text":"一些說明"},{"start":8080.74,"end":8082.74,"text":"好"},{"start":8082.11,"end":8084.11,"text":"我們每一季在開理事會之前"},{"start":8084.11,"end":8086.11,"text":"我們內部都會對"},{"start":8086.11,"end":8088.11,"text":"單權房地產的措施"},{"start":8088.11,"end":8090.11,"text":"政策做一個檢視"},{"start":8090.11,"end":8092.11,"text":"所以我想我們會"},{"start":8092.11,"end":8094.11,"text":"聽到大家剛才提的"},{"start":8094.11,"end":8096.11,"text":"意見我們在每一次理事會"},{"start":8096.11,"end":8098.11,"text":"之前我們都會去檢視我們的"},{"start":8098.11,"end":8100.11,"text":"政策是不是有需要"},{"start":8100.11,"end":8102.11,"text":"修正的部分第二點"},{"start":8102.11,"end":8104.11,"text":"是關於這個今天的"},{"start":8104.11,"end":8106.11,"text":"公聽會的討論提供的第三點"},{"start":8106.11,"end":8108.11,"text":"有關於行政部門"},{"start":8108.11,"end":8110.11,"text":"對產業"},{"start":8110.11,"end":8112.11,"text":"資金支持部分"},{"start":8112.11,"end":8114.11,"text":"我想我們簡單的說明就是說"},{"start":8115.15,"end":8117.15,"text":"央行將持續因應國內外"},{"start":8117.15,"end":8119.15,"text":"經濟金融情勢的發展"},{"start":8119.15,"end":8121.15,"text":"實施公開"},{"start":8121.15,"end":8123.15,"text":"市場操作以維持"},{"start":8123.15,"end":8125.15,"text":"銀行流動銀行體系"},{"start":8125.15,"end":8127.15,"text":"流動性與市場利率"},{"start":8127.15,"end":8129.15,"text":"於一個適當的水準"},{"start":8129.15,"end":8131.15,"text":"這個有助於搭配"},{"start":8131.15,"end":8133.15,"text":"政府產業政策的發展"},{"start":8133.15,"end":8135.15,"text":"策略"},{"start":8134.52,"end":8136.52,"text":"第三點我們想說明的是"},{"start":8136.52,"end":8138.52,"text":"在討論提供第四點"},{"start":8138.52,"end":8140.52,"text":"有關於行政部門"},{"start":8140.92,"end":8142.92,"text":"降低物價壓力的部分"},{"start":8145.81,"end":8147.81,"text":"其實長期以來我們都"},{"start":8147.81,"end":8149.81,"text":"利用妥適的貨幣政策"},{"start":8149.81,"end":8151.81,"text":"然後"},{"start":8151.94,"end":8153.94,"text":"根據當時候的國內外經濟金融情勢"},{"start":8153.94,"end":8155.94,"text":"我們的基本的政策"},{"start":8155.94,"end":8157.94,"text":"是以維持物價穩定"},{"start":8157.94,"end":8159.94,"text":"來降低"},{"start":8159.94,"end":8161.94,"text":"民眾物價上漲的壓力"},{"start":8161.94,"end":8163.94,"text":"我想這也是我們"},{"start":8163.94,"end":8165.94,"text":"央行的一個"},{"start":8167.01,"end":8169.01,"text":"央行法所規定的一個職責所在"},{"start":8169.01,"end":8171.01,"text":"以上簡單的說明提供大家參考"},{"start":8171.01,"end":8173.01,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8174.96,"end":8176.96,"text":"好非常感謝我們"},{"start":8176.96,"end":8178.96,"text":"顏副總裁的回應"},{"start":8178.96,"end":8180.96,"text":"也希望顏副總裁針對於"},{"start":8180.96,"end":8182.96,"text":"剛才包括"},{"start":8182.96,"end":8184.96,"text":"傳產業房地產業"},{"start":8184.96,"end":8186.96,"text":"提出來相關的議題跟意見"},{"start":8186.96,"end":8188.96,"text":"帶回去做一些參考"},{"start":8188.96,"end":8190.96,"text":"接下來邀請我們國發會"},{"start":8190.96,"end":8192.96,"text":"我們的副處長"},{"start":8192.96,"end":8194.96,"text":"陳副處長"},{"start":8194.96,"end":8196.96,"text":"做回應謝謝"},{"start":8206.8,"end":8208.8,"text":"張委各位專家學者"},{"start":8208.8,"end":8210.8,"text":"各級官代表"},{"start":8210.8,"end":8212.8,"text":"以及各位先進"},{"start":8212.8,"end":8214.8,"text":"國發會非常高興"},{"start":8214.8,"end":8216.8,"text":"能夠聽到今天現場"},{"start":8216.8,"end":8218.8,"text":"各位專家委員"},{"start":8218.8,"end":8220.8,"text":"學者給我們政府的一些"},{"start":8220.8,"end":8222.8,"text":"建議"},{"start":8222.8,"end":8224.8,"text":"國發會就剛才所提到的"},{"start":8224.8,"end":8226.8,"text":"相關的內容與提議"},{"start":8226.8,"end":8228.8,"text":"我們就政府整體的"},{"start":8228.8,"end":8230.8,"text":"政策規劃的思維跟做法"},{"start":8230.8,"end":8232.8,"text":"提出"},{"start":8232.8,"end":8234.8,"text":"以下的說明"},{"start":8234.96,"end":8236.96,"text":"首先根據剛才大家的討論"},{"start":8236.96,"end":8238.96,"text":"我們對於"},{"start":8238.96,"end":8240.96,"text":"全球供應鏈的重組"},{"start":8240.96,"end":8242.96,"text":"帶動包括台商回台"},{"start":8242.96,"end":8244.96,"text":"擴增國內的"},{"start":8244.96,"end":8246.96,"text":"產能以及AI的"},{"start":8246.96,"end":8248.96,"text":"商機的蓬勃發展"},{"start":8248.96,"end":8250.96,"text":"還有台灣在高科技"},{"start":8250.96,"end":8252.96,"text":"的全球供應鏈方面的"},{"start":8252.96,"end":8254.96,"text":"關鍵地位造成了我們"},{"start":8254.96,"end":8256.96,"text":"台灣最近的經濟"},{"start":8256.96,"end":8258.96,"text":"高速的成長"},{"start":8258.96,"end":8260.96,"text":"我想這是大家都有共識的"},{"start":8260.96,"end":8262.96,"text":"在產業別部分"},{"start":8262.96,"end":8264.96,"text":"AI的創新發展以外"},{"start":8265.49,"end":8267.49,"text":"其實我們也看到多數的"},{"start":8267.49,"end":8269.49,"text":"傳統的製造業"},{"start":8269.49,"end":8271.49,"text":"有在做一些"},{"start":8271.49,"end":8273.49,"text":"高質化的轉型"},{"start":8273.49,"end":8275.49,"text":"剛才有提到一些產業"},{"start":8275.49,"end":8277.49,"text":"包括塑膠、紡織"},{"start":8277.49,"end":8279.49,"text":"電力設備"},{"start":8279.49,"end":8281.49,"text":"配備以及機械設備等等"},{"start":8281.49,"end":8283.49,"text":"113米的"},{"start":8283.49,"end":8285.49,"text":"附加價值率這些都是"},{"start":8285.49,"end":8287.49,"text":"有提升的"},{"start":8287.49,"end":8289.49,"text":"傳統產業部分的景氣改善"},{"start":8289.49,"end":8291.49,"text":"我們也可以看到"},{"start":8291.49,"end":8293.49,"text":"包括半導體供應鏈"},{"start":8293.49,"end":8295.49,"text":"它的上游、中游等等這些的"},{"start":8297.01,"end":8299.01,"text":"產商因為供應鏈的需求成長"},{"start":8299.01,"end":8301.01,"text":"也有出口回升的一些態勢"},{"start":8301.01,"end":8303.01,"text":"整體看來"},{"start":8303.01,"end":8305.01,"text":"其實台灣的"},{"start":8305.01,"end":8307.01,"text":"最近幾年的景氣可以說是"},{"start":8307.01,"end":8309.01,"text":"尤其是今年是特別的熱"},{"start":8309.01,"end":8311.01,"text":"政府在刺激"},{"start":8311.01,"end":8313.01,"text":"均衡發展的作為方面"},{"start":8313.01,"end":8315.01,"text":"其實我們並不是只有考慮到"},{"start":8315.01,"end":8317.01,"text":"AI"},{"start":8317.01,"end":8319.01,"text":"我們是想要"},{"start":8318.12,"end":8320.12,"text":"把這個AI的紅利能夠擴散出來"},{"start":8320.12,"end":8322.12,"text":"那我們有三個方向"},{"start":8322.12,"end":8324.12,"text":"來努力"},{"start":8324.12,"end":8326.12,"text":"第一個是產業的創新發展部分"},{"start":8326.12,"end":8328.12,"text":"第二個是"},{"start":8328.12,"end":8330.12,"text":"政府怎麼樣鼓勵這個"},{"start":8330.12,"end":8332.12,"text":"AI從AI部分以後"},{"start":8332.12,"end":8334.12,"text":"企業能夠加薪"},{"start":8334.12,"end":8336.12,"text":"剛才幾位學者也都有提到"},{"start":8336.12,"end":8338.12,"text":"第三個是"},{"start":8338.12,"end":8340.12,"text":"國人的負擔要怎麼樣去減輕"},{"start":8340.12,"end":8342.12,"text":"首先在第一個"},{"start":8342.12,"end":8344.12,"text":"就是產業的創新發展部分"},{"start":8344.12,"end":8346.12,"text":"我們知道"},{"start":8346.12,"end":8348.12,"text":"AI的負能這個已經是現在的"},{"start":8349.65,"end":8351.65,"text":"未來的發展趨勢"},{"start":8351.65,"end":8353.65,"text":"那要AI負能一定要"},{"start":8353.65,"end":8355.65,"text":"擴散到百工百業去"},{"start":8355.65,"end":8357.65,"text":"讓AI能夠走進各行各業"},{"start":8357.65,"end":8359.65,"text":"所以我們是有"},{"start":8359.65,"end":8361.65,"text":"提出一個AI新時代建設"},{"start":8361.65,"end":8363.65,"text":"我想各位都非常的清楚"},{"start":8363.65,"end":8365.65,"text":"這個新時代建設這個政策"},{"start":8365.65,"end":8367.65,"text":"是透過智慧應用跟關鍵技術"},{"start":8367.65,"end":8369.65,"text":"以及數位基盤"},{"start":8369.65,"end":8371.65,"text":"我們希望比如說在"},{"start":8371.65,"end":8373.65,"text":"智慧應用部分可以協助"},{"start":8373.65,"end":8375.65,"text":"製造業、服務業、中小企業、農漁業"},{"start":8375.65,"end":8377.65,"text":"等等百工百業"},{"start":8377.65,"end":8379.65,"text":"都能夠導入AI的智慧應用"},{"start":8379.65,"end":8381.65,"text":"來提高企業的"},{"start":8381.65,"end":8383.65,"text":"營運的效率"},{"start":8384.7,"end":8386.7,"text":"或者他們獲利以及他們"},{"start":8386.7,"end":8388.7,"text":"有一些新的商業發展模式"},{"start":8388.7,"end":8390.7,"text":"有關於中小微企業的"},{"start":8390.7,"end":8392.7,"text":"升級轉型部分"},{"start":8392.7,"end":8394.7,"text":"剛才長官們"},{"start":8394.7,"end":8396.7,"text":"已經有提到了"},{"start":8396.7,"end":8398.7,"text":"這個預計在我們是希望"},{"start":8398.7,"end":8400.7,"text":"在8月份傳報行政院"},{"start":8400.7,"end":8402.7,"text":"經濟部會提報行政院"},{"start":8402.7,"end":8404.7,"text":"然後9月份會送請"},{"start":8404.7,"end":8406.7,"text":"立法院來審議"},{"start":8406.7,"end":8408.7,"text":"我們現在中小微對我們來講"},{"start":8408.7,"end":8410.7,"text":"是非常重要的"},{"start":8410.7,"end":8412.7,"text":"因為我們台灣最主要都還是中小微的"},{"start":8412.7,"end":8414.7,"text":"企業"},{"start":8414.7,"end":8416.7,"text":"我們希望能夠擴大研發頭底"},{"start":8416.7,"end":8418.7,"text":"然後普惠金融等等"},{"start":8419.8,"end":8421.8,"text":"中小微能夠"},{"start":8421.8,"end":8423.8,"text":"有提供加薪跟增固的這些優惠"},{"start":8423.8,"end":8425.8,"text":"來提供他們的"},{"start":8425.8,"end":8427.8,"text":"整體的競爭力"},{"start":8429.72,"end":8431.72,"text":"那也有老師有提到"},{"start":8431.72,"end":8433.72,"text":"就是"},{"start":8433.72,"end":8435.72,"text":"有關於資金的部分"},{"start":8435.72,"end":8437.72,"text":"有國發基金這一塊"},{"start":8437.72,"end":8439.72,"text":"國發基金這個其實我們"},{"start":8439.72,"end":8441.72,"text":"有透過"},{"start":8441.72,"end":8443.72,"text":"有透過主題式的"},{"start":8443.72,"end":8445.72,"text":"百億的投資方案"},{"start":8445.72,"end":8447.72,"text":"讓這些資金能夠引導到"},{"start":8447.72,"end":8449.72,"text":"我們最主要是具有發展潛力"},{"start":8449.72,"end":8451.72,"text":"還有政策意義的產業的領域"},{"start":8451.99,"end":8453.99,"text":"那人才的部分"},{"start":8453.99,"end":8455.99,"text":"AI人才呢"},{"start":8455.99,"end":8457.99,"text":"我們是希望說AI的人才"},{"start":8457.99,"end":8459.99,"text":"生態系呢"},{"start":8459.99,"end":8461.99,"text":"除了透過這個培育"},{"start":8461.99,"end":8463.99,"text":"新世代的人才以外"},{"start":8463.99,"end":8465.99,"text":"我們希望說能夠強化"},{"start":8465.99,"end":8467.99,"text":"產業的人才培育"},{"start":8467.99,"end":8469.99,"text":"以及提升在地人才的培育量"},{"start":8469.99,"end":8471.99,"text":"換句話說就是"},{"start":8471.99,"end":8473.99,"text":"AI的人才紅利"},{"start":8473.99,"end":8475.99,"text":"能夠向百分百來擴散"},{"start":8475.99,"end":8477.99,"text":"那第二大部分就是"},{"start":8477.99,"end":8479.99,"text":"加薪的政策"},{"start":8479.99,"end":8481.99,"text":"政府是希望說"},{"start":8482.94,"end":8484.94,"text":"政府自己是作為一個加薪的引擎"},{"start":8484.94,"end":8486.94,"text":"然後薪資能夠透明"},{"start":8486.94,"end":8488.94,"text":"然後中小企業"},{"start":8488.94,"end":8490.94,"text":"這個也給他們這個"},{"start":8490.94,"end":8492.94,"text":"透過這樣的能力以後"},{"start":8492.94,"end":8494.94,"text":"他們也能夠有帶動的這個"},{"start":8494.94,"end":8496.94,"text":"加薪的誘因的作用"},{"start":8496.94,"end":8498.94,"text":"那各位也有看到最近就是"},{"start":8499.99,"end":8501.99,"text":"有關於最低薪資的這一塊"},{"start":8501.99,"end":8503.99,"text":"那最低薪資法是已經"},{"start":8503.99,"end":8505.99,"text":"就是已經是"},{"start":8505.99,"end":8507.99,"text":"專法了"},{"start":8509.1,"end":8511.1,"text":"未來呢我們是希望說能夠"},{"start":8511.1,"end":8513.1,"text":"保障弱勢勞工的基本所需"},{"start":8513.1,"end":8515.1,"text":"那第三塊的部分"},{"start":8515.1,"end":8517.1,"text":"是減輕民眾的租稅負擔"},{"start":8517.1,"end":8519.1,"text":"那剛才財政部長官"},{"start":8519.1,"end":8521.1,"text":"已經有提到有關於這個"},{"start":8521.1,"end":8523.1,"text":"租稅的相關的"},{"start":8523.1,"end":8525.1,"text":"減免減輕"},{"start":8525.1,"end":8527.1,"text":"負擔的部分"},{"start":8527.1,"end":8529.1,"text":"那另外還有一塊我們這邊"},{"start":8529.1,"end":8531.1,"text":"特別要提出來就是說"},{"start":8531.1,"end":8533.1,"text":"其實為了要穩定國內的這個物價"},{"start":8533.1,"end":8535.1,"text":"行政院有多次有召開這個"},{"start":8535.1,"end":8537.1,"text":"會議要穩定這個相關的"},{"start":8537.1,"end":8539.1,"text":"有注意了國內外的物價的這個情勢"},{"start":8539.1,"end":8541.1,"text":"然後推動一些相關的物價的穩定的措施"},{"start":8541.1,"end":8543.1,"text":"那各位也可以感受到"},{"start":8543.1,"end":8545.1,"text":"像中東情勢造成這個"},{"start":8545.1,"end":8547.1,"text":"國內的物價的這個波動"},{"start":8547.1,"end":8549.1,"text":"所以在包括氣燃油還有民生用戶天然氣"},{"start":8549.1,"end":8551.1,"text":"統中瓦斯還有電價等等"},{"start":8551.1,"end":8553.1,"text":"目前都是有特別討論"},{"start":8553.1,"end":8555.1,"text":"那我們最主要是要照顧民眾的生活"},{"start":8563.67,"end":8565.67,"text":"那總之來講"},{"start":8565.67,"end":8567.67,"text":"在政府的考量部分"},{"start":8567.67,"end":8569.67,"text":"AI驅動的新經濟成長原則上來講"},{"start":8569.67,"end":8571.67,"text":"這是一個大家都認同的一個"},{"start":8571.67,"end":8573.67,"text":"未來的主要的發展模式"},{"start":8573.67,"end":8575.67,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":8575.67,"end":8577.67,"text":"我們還是會用創新驅動或"},{"start":8577.67,"end":8579.67,"text":"數位轉型以及淨零轉型等等"},{"start":8579.67,"end":8581.67,"text":"最主要是要把AI紅綠"},{"start":8581.67,"end":8583.67,"text":"擴散到各行各業"},{"start":8583.67,"end":8585.67,"text":"然後我們會去扶植傳統的產業"},{"start":8585.67,"end":8587.67,"text":"以及中小微的轉型"},{"start":8587.67,"end":8589.67,"text":"我們希望說"},{"start":8589.67,"end":8591.67,"text":"企業跟勞工"},{"start":8591.67,"end":8593.67,"text":"跟大家一起能夠共享成果"},{"start":8593.67,"end":8595.67,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":8597.27,"end":8599.27,"text":"謝謝我們國發會的"},{"start":8599.27,"end":8603.27,"text":"產業發展處的副處長陳瓊華副處長的回應"},{"start":8603.27,"end":8607.27,"text":"接下來我邀請我們經濟部"},{"start":8607.27,"end":8609.27,"text":"我們綜合規劃司的林司長"},{"start":8609.27,"end":8611.27,"text":"謝謝歡迎您"},{"start":8625.91,"end":8627.91,"text":"主席以及各位在場委員"},{"start":8627.91,"end":8629.91,"text":"以及我們的先進的學者專家"},{"start":8629.91,"end":8631.91,"text":"還有各單位的代表"},{"start":8631.91,"end":8633.91,"text":"大家好"},{"start":8633.91,"end":8635.91,"text":"謝謝今天陳磨委員會的邀請"},{"start":8635.91,"end":8637.91,"text":"來參與今天的公聽會"},{"start":8637.91,"end":8643.91,"text":"那也謝謝各位先進跟學者專家的不吝的視角"},{"start":8643.91,"end":8647.91,"text":"那針對剛剛各位先進提到的一些相關的建議"},{"start":8647.91,"end":8651.91,"text":"我也代表經濟部在這裡做一些說明"},{"start":8651.91,"end":8653.91,"text":"那經濟部呢"},{"start":8653.91,"end":8655.91,"text":"經濟部呢"},{"start":8655.91,"end":8657.91,"text":"除了優勢產業的重視以外"},{"start":8657.91,"end":8659.91,"text":"其實輔導傳統產業"},{"start":8659.91,"end":8661.91,"text":"跟內需型產業朝高質化發展"},{"start":8661.91,"end":8663.91,"text":"其實也是經濟部非常重要的工作"},{"start":8663.91,"end":8665.91,"text":"所以在傳統產業"},{"start":8665.91,"end":8667.91,"text":"跟商業服務業的升級轉型的部分"},{"start":8667.91,"end":8671.91,"text":"我們也繼續很努力的在推動"},{"start":8671.91,"end":8673.91,"text":"近年來我們都知道"},{"start":8673.91,"end":8677.91,"text":"在這個半導體跟高科技的持續成長之下"},{"start":8677.91,"end":8679.91,"text":"其實我們也積極的"},{"start":8679.91,"end":8683.91,"text":"我們也積極的引導國內的傳統產業"},{"start":8683.91,"end":8685.91,"text":"像金屬加工"},{"start":8685.91,"end":8687.91,"text":"或是像塑膠產業"},{"start":8687.91,"end":8689.91,"text":"以及光學等等的這些"},{"start":8689.91,"end":8691.91,"text":"就是我們台灣其實"},{"start":8691.91,"end":8695.91,"text":"大部分中小企業或傳統產業"},{"start":8695.91,"end":8697.91,"text":"都在這些產業的這個分布之內"},{"start":8697.91,"end":8699.91,"text":"所以我們也希望帶動這些產業"},{"start":8699.91,"end":8703.91,"text":"跨入我們這些優勢產業的"},{"start":8704.63,"end":8706.63,"text":"設備及材料"},{"start":8706.63,"end":8708.63,"text":"來提升它產品的價值"},{"start":8708.63,"end":8710.63,"text":"透過這些傳產的協助"},{"start":8710.63,"end":8712.63,"text":"推動他們在高質化"},{"start":8712.63,"end":8714.63,"text":"跟技術研發"},{"start":8714.63,"end":8716.63,"text":"以及我們的產業輔導方面"},{"start":8716.63,"end":8718.63,"text":"也會多與協助"},{"start":8718.63,"end":8720.63,"text":"希望我們來強化整個所有傳統產業的競爭力"},{"start":8720.63,"end":8724.63,"text":"並且也能夠強化我們供應鏈的韌性"},{"start":8724.63,"end":8728.63,"text":"另外我們在商業服務的部分"},{"start":8728.63,"end":8730.63,"text":"也就是剛剛有些先進提到的"},{"start":8730.63,"end":8732.63,"text":"一些地方型或內需型的產業"},{"start":8732.63,"end":8734.63,"text":"像零售、餐飲、生活服務等等"},{"start":8734.63,"end":8738.63,"text":"這些或市集或商圈等等"},{"start":8738.63,"end":8740.63,"text":"這些我們也都很積極在推動"},{"start":8740.63,"end":8742.63,"text":"輔導他們在地發展"},{"start":8742.63,"end":8746.63,"text":"並且讓他們在環境的基礎建設優化"},{"start":8746.63,"end":8748.63,"text":"市集的這個品牌能夠提升"},{"start":8748.63,"end":8750.63,"text":"商圈的消費環境能夠美化"},{"start":8750.63,"end":8752.63,"text":"來提升我們這些在地產業"},{"start":8752.63,"end":8756.63,"text":"商業服務的經營的競爭力"},{"start":8756.63,"end":8760.63,"text":"另外經濟部為了各行各業"},{"start":8760.63,"end":8762.63,"text":"經濟部為了各行各業、各產業"},{"start":8762.63,"end":8766.63,"text":"所以我們也有成立跨部會的產業輔導團"},{"start":8766.63,"end":8768.63,"text":"也希望藉由跨部會的合作"},{"start":8768.63,"end":8772.63,"text":"從金融、從人才、從市場擴展"},{"start":8772.63,"end":8776.63,"text":"一直到節能、永續或是跟勞動部合作"},{"start":8776.63,"end":8778.63,"text":"在勞動升級方面"},{"start":8778.63,"end":8780.63,"text":"我們也都積極的在推動"},{"start":8780.63,"end":8782.63,"text":"希望能夠藉由這樣的輔導團"},{"start":8782.63,"end":8784.63,"text":"能夠到各行各業"},{"start":8784.63,"end":8788.63,"text":"到各地去做輔導"},{"start":8789.05,"end":8791.05,"text":"這個部分已經是我們現在"},{"start":8791.05,"end":8794.05,"text":"進一步努力在進行的方向"},{"start":8795.18,"end":8798.18,"text":"另外在產業創新條例的部分"},{"start":8798.18,"end":8801.18,"text":"我們還是繼續推動我們在"},{"start":8801.66,"end":8804.66,"text":"產業的研發、投資及人才培訓"},{"start":8804.66,"end":8807.66,"text":"希望能夠藉由產創條例的鼓勵"},{"start":8807.66,"end":8809.66,"text":"跟租稅的優惠"},{"start":8809.66,"end":8812.66,"text":"來幫產業做很多的升級轉型"},{"start":8814.15,"end":8817.15,"text":"最後當然我也要稍微說明一下"},{"start":8817.15,"end":8821.15,"text":"在未來剛剛我們幾位各部會的長官"},{"start":8821.15,"end":8822.15,"text":"也有提到的"},{"start":8822.15,"end":8824.15,"text":"所謂的中小企業"},{"start":8824.15,"end":8826.15,"text":"現在目前正在進行"},{"start":8826.15,"end":8829.15,"text":"這個中小企業條例的修正"},{"start":8829.15,"end":8832.15,"text":"那未來中小企業條例會更名為"},{"start":8832.96,"end":8835.96,"text":"中小微企業轉型升級發展條例"},{"start":8835.96,"end":8838.96,"text":"那目前這個條例大概有幾個主軸的方向"},{"start":8838.96,"end":8839.96,"text":"在進行"},{"start":8840.76,"end":8844.76,"text":"一個是研發創新、轉型發展、通路的部件"},{"start":8844.76,"end":8846.76,"text":"財務的隆通、輔導"},{"start":8846.76,"end":8850.76,"text":"還有染財、留財及新創企業的培育等等"},{"start":8850.76,"end":8852.76,"text":"那主要也是希望"},{"start":8852.76,"end":8855.76,"text":"藉著這樣的幾個政策主軸的方向"},{"start":8855.76,"end":8858.76,"text":"我們來擴大對微型企業的照顧"},{"start":8858.76,"end":8860.76,"text":"希望能夠涵蓋我們"},{"start":8860.76,"end":8864.76,"text":"170多萬家中小微企業的支持體系"},{"start":8864.76,"end":8866.76,"text":"協助一些小微的微型店家"},{"start":8866.76,"end":8869.76,"text":"擴大他的銷售量能"},{"start":8869.76,"end":8872.76,"text":"讓商圈、市場等等這些有特色的"},{"start":8872.76,"end":8877.76,"text":"地方特色產業跟旅遊能夠發展起來"},{"start":8877.76,"end":8881.76,"text":"另外第二個我們也會推動產業群聚的轉型"},{"start":8881.76,"end":8883.76,"text":"就如同剛剛先進有提到的"},{"start":8883.76,"end":8885.76,"text":"我們會用以大帶小"},{"start":8885.76,"end":8887.76,"text":"來協助我們這些中小微企業"},{"start":8887.76,"end":8890.76,"text":"來借借我們大型的企業的供應鏈"},{"start":8890.76,"end":8891.76,"text":"或是大型的通路"},{"start":8891.76,"end":8894.76,"text":"或是平台、數位的平台"},{"start":8894.76,"end":8896.76,"text":"做一些關鍵性技術的成長"},{"start":8896.76,"end":8898.76,"text":"跟品牌的提升"},{"start":8898.76,"end":8902.76,"text":"希望利用大的企業來帶動我們這些"},{"start":8902.76,"end":8904.76,"text":"中小微企業來共同發展"},{"start":8904.76,"end":8906.76,"text":"另外我們也會優化"},{"start":8906.76,"end":8909.76,"text":"研發發展支出投資的抵減"},{"start":8909.76,"end":8911.76,"text":"希望能夠來提升我們這些中小微企業"},{"start":8911.76,"end":8913.76,"text":"在研發的投入"},{"start":8913.76,"end":8917.76,"text":"另外還有就是我們會增加轉型設備"},{"start":8917.76,"end":8919.76,"text":"購置的投資抵減"},{"start":8919.76,"end":8922.76,"text":"其實我們很多中小微企業"},{"start":8922.76,"end":8923.76,"text":"要朝高子化的發展"},{"start":8923.76,"end":8925.76,"text":"其實他們還有一些設備"},{"start":8925.76,"end":8928.76,"text":"尤其是在智慧機械或是數位"},{"start":8928.76,"end":8931.76,"text":"或是人工智慧等等的軟硬體技術"},{"start":8931.76,"end":8934.76,"text":"都必須要做一些升級跟改善"},{"start":8934.76,"end":8935.76,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":8935.76,"end":8937.76,"text":"我們希望未來在修法裡面"},{"start":8937.76,"end":8940.76,"text":"能夠提供這方面的一些租稅的"},{"start":8942.45,"end":8945.45,"text":"另外我們當然也希望能夠優化"},{"start":8945.45,"end":8948.45,"text":"徵雇員工及員工加薪的租稅優惠"},{"start":8948.45,"end":8951.45,"text":"其實在113年的時候"},{"start":8951.45,"end":8954.45,"text":"其實中小企業發展條例的36條之二"},{"start":8954.45,"end":8958.45,"text":"就有針對員工加薪的一些相關的租稅優惠"},{"start":8958.45,"end":8960.45,"text":"已經有去做修正"},{"start":8960.45,"end":8963.45,"text":"那未來這個部分我們會來協助"},{"start":8963.45,"end":8965.45,"text":"看看要不要放寬一些"},{"start":8965.45,"end":8968.45,"text":"就是我們徵雇的一些基層員工的年齡"},{"start":8968.45,"end":8972.45,"text":"或是一些加薪保證等等這方面的一些相關優惠"},{"start":8972.45,"end":8974.45,"text":"再予以提升"},{"start":8974.45,"end":8977.45,"text":"那這個部分都是我們未來在中小企業"},{"start":8977.45,"end":8980.45,"text":"這些升級轉型的條例的"},{"start":8980.45,"end":8983.45,"text":"目前的內容我們會來做努力"},{"start":8983.45,"end":8988.45,"text":"那最後就是各位學者專家提供了非常多寶貴的意見"},{"start":8988.45,"end":8991.45,"text":"我們都會納入來做這個參考"},{"start":8991.45,"end":8993.45,"text":"那以上說明謝謝"},{"start":8994.1,"end":8999.1,"text":"非常感謝我們經濟部眾和規劃司司長的回應"},{"start":8999.1,"end":9001.1,"text":"剛剛這些回應其實都非常的好"},{"start":9001.1,"end":9003.1,"text":"具體如何落實"},{"start":9003.1,"end":9007.1,"text":"我們也希望短時間之內公告出來讓國人都知道"},{"start":9007.1,"end":9010.1,"text":"包括剛才有幾位學者專家"},{"start":9010.1,"end":9012.1,"text":"還有理事長所提到的"},{"start":9012.1,"end":9015.1,"text":"國家重點產業的支援跟協助"},{"start":9015.1,"end":9017.1,"text":"上個階段包括醫療"},{"start":9017.1,"end":9021.1,"text":"生物醫療再生醫療產業是蔡政府所重視的"},{"start":9021.1,"end":9023.1,"text":"後續我們如何去延續下去"},{"start":9023.1,"end":9027.1,"text":"我們希望有機會創造更多的護國群山"},{"start":9027.1,"end":9030.1,"text":"也希望相關的部會經濟部也做一下思考"},{"start":9030.1,"end":9034.1,"text":"好接下來邀請我們衛福部"},{"start":9034.1,"end":9036.1,"text":"我們衛福部今天來到現場"},{"start":9036.1,"end":9039.1,"text":"是我們醫事司還有食藥署的檢認記證"},{"start":9039.1,"end":9042.1,"text":"我們派一位代表回應謝謝"},{"start":9053.15,"end":9057.15,"text":"主席還有我們的各位學者專家"},{"start":9057.15,"end":9059.15,"text":"還有工協會代表大家好"},{"start":9059.15,"end":9063.15,"text":"衛生福利部在針對剛才在"},{"start":9063.15,"end":9066.15,"text":"我們的工協會有提出的一些問題的這部分"},{"start":9066.15,"end":9067.15,"text":"來做說明"},{"start":9067.15,"end":9068.15,"text":"因為也跟主席不好意思"},{"start":9068.15,"end":9070.15,"text":"因為我們分別"},{"start":9070.78,"end":9074.78,"text":"那個有關醫療技術的部分是在我們衛福部醫事司"},{"start":9074.78,"end":9077.78,"text":"然後因為屬於這個藥品的部分是我們食藥署"},{"start":9077.78,"end":9079.78,"text":"所以我們大概會分別來做個說明"},{"start":9079.78,"end":9082.78,"text":"不過都是才簡單的方式來做個說明"},{"start":9082.78,"end":9084.78,"text":"那首先就是有提到就是說"},{"start":9084.78,"end":9088.78,"text":"我目前的一個法規的部分好像還沒有完成"},{"start":9088.78,"end":9089.78,"text":"那先報告一下"},{"start":9089.78,"end":9093.78,"text":"目前我們有16部的這個法規都已經發布"},{"start":9093.78,"end":9094.78,"text":"而且是在去年發布"},{"start":9094.78,"end":9097.78,"text":"因為這去年發布是為了要因應我們今年1月1號"},{"start":9097.78,"end":9100.78,"text":"開始有關再生醫療這個法"},{"start":9100.78,"end":9104.78,"text":"跟這個再生醫療治濟條例這兩個法律的這個施行"},{"start":9104.78,"end":9106.78,"text":"所以執法規其實都ready"},{"start":9106.78,"end":9109.78,"text":"所以有關法規的部分已經ready"},{"start":9109.78,"end":9113.78,"text":"那當然這個法規是新發布的"},{"start":9113.78,"end":9114.78,"text":"法律也是新的"},{"start":9114.78,"end":9117.78,"text":"所以在後面的一個執行上面"},{"start":9117.78,"end":9119.78,"text":"如果有一些地方需要調整的部分"},{"start":9119.78,"end":9121.78,"text":"在座可以給我們一些很具體的建議"},{"start":9121.78,"end":9123.78,"text":"我們都可以來去做一些調整"},{"start":9123.78,"end":9124.78,"text":"這個是有關法規的部分"},{"start":9124.78,"end":9126.78,"text":"那第二個是有提到就是說"},{"start":9126.78,"end":9128.78,"text":"審查的這個透明度"},{"start":9128.78,"end":9132.78,"text":"因為的確就是衛福部從今年開始來去執行"},{"start":9132.78,"end":9135.78,"text":"有關這個不管是再生醫療的技術"},{"start":9135.78,"end":9136.78,"text":"或者是治濟的部分"},{"start":9136.78,"end":9139.78,"text":"都有申請案也有核准案件"},{"start":9139.78,"end":9142.78,"text":"那目前的一個案件的一個審查的這個部分"},{"start":9142.78,"end":9143.78,"text":"先做個說明"},{"start":9143.78,"end":9146.78,"text":"其實我們針對這個有關透明度的部分"},{"start":9146.78,"end":9149.78,"text":"我們有在衛福部包含像我們醫師事實藥署"},{"start":9149.78,"end":9153.78,"text":"在我們的網站上面都有再生醫療一個專區"},{"start":9153.78,"end":9157.78,"text":"那在衛福部醫師事實的再生醫療技術的專區裡面"},{"start":9157.78,"end":9160.78,"text":"我們包含訂定所謂的申請的一個須知"},{"start":9160.78,"end":9163.78,"text":"因為擔心醫療機構在申請面上不清楚"},{"start":9163.78,"end":9165.78,"text":"所以第一個我們訂申請須知"},{"start":9165.78,"end":9169.78,"text":"那第二個我們也有所謂的線上申辦系統"},{"start":9169.78,"end":9170.78,"text":"讓大家很清楚知道說"},{"start":9170.78,"end":9173.78,"text":"目前的一個申請的一個流程審查進度到"},{"start":9173.78,"end":9175.78,"text":"什麼樣子的狀況"},{"start":9175.78,"end":9178.78,"text":"那第三個我們對於我們的審議的會議記錄"},{"start":9178.78,"end":9180.78,"text":"是原則上才公開制度"},{"start":9180.78,"end":9183.78,"text":"因此有關記錄的這個部分也會公開"},{"start":9183.78,"end":9184.78,"text":"就大家如果不清楚"},{"start":9184.78,"end":9187.78,"text":"其實我們會盡量採取這個"},{"start":9187.78,"end":9191.78,"text":"不管是在流程上面或者是結果上面都會做公開"},{"start":9191.78,"end":9193.78,"text":"那另外還有一個搭配就是"},{"start":9193.78,"end":9196.78,"text":"我們也會有再生醫療的技術的一個年報"},{"start":9196.78,"end":9199.78,"text":"我們透過我們的年報也會揭露說"},{"start":9199.78,"end":9201.78,"text":"我們大概有做哪一些作為"},{"start":9201.78,"end":9206.78,"text":"哪一些新的一個機制在這個年報上做一個處理"},{"start":9206.78,"end":9208.78,"text":"那"},{"start":9208.52,"end":9210.52,"text":"另外還有一塊就是說"},{"start":9210.52,"end":9211.52,"text":"擔心就是說"},{"start":9211.52,"end":9215.52,"text":"那如果我們醫療機構在做申請案件的時候"},{"start":9215.52,"end":9217.52,"text":"可能不是很清楚或者是不了解"},{"start":9217.52,"end":9219.52,"text":"我們的審議的意見"},{"start":9219.52,"end":9221.52,"text":"到底是怎麼回事"},{"start":9221.52,"end":9224.52,"text":"其實我們都有所謂的輔導機制"},{"start":9224.52,"end":9226.52,"text":"那當我們輔導機制就大家"},{"start":9226.52,"end":9228.52,"text":"有一些在做可能熟悉就是"},{"start":9228.52,"end":9232.52,"text":"我們是請我們的CD來當作我們的輔導團隊"},{"start":9232.52,"end":9234.52,"text":"所以對於這個審查的意見"},{"start":9234.52,"end":9237.52,"text":"或者是即便醫療機構想要申請"},{"start":9237.52,"end":9239.52,"text":"那如果我們有清楚怎麼樣在申請"},{"start":9239.52,"end":9240.52,"text":"有輔導機制"},{"start":9240.52,"end":9245.52,"text":"那包含我們每年CD會辦理四場的一個說明會"},{"start":9245.52,"end":9248.52,"text":"讓醫療機構能夠參加了解如何來做申請"},{"start":9248.52,"end":9249.52,"text":"那審查過程中"},{"start":9249.52,"end":9252.52,"text":"如果有相關的問題都可以來去詢問"},{"start":9252.52,"end":9256.52,"text":"以力大家來申請案件的一個流程上面的一個進行"},{"start":9256.52,"end":9258.52,"text":"那另外一個部分就是"},{"start":9258.52,"end":9259.52,"text":"有提到就是說"},{"start":9259.52,"end":9263.52,"text":"希望針對是有關費用的部分"},{"start":9263.52,"end":9266.52,"text":"那的確必須要來講就是說"},{"start":9266.52,"end":9271.52,"text":"有關再生醫療的案件多數是自費方式"},{"start":9271.52,"end":9277.52,"text":"那但是呢因為健保署針對我們的病人的醫療費用負擔"},{"start":9277.52,"end":9281.52,"text":"其實有跟國健署去做合作就是有關的抗癌三件"},{"start":9281.52,"end":9283.52,"text":"從114年我們開始做提出"},{"start":9283.52,"end":9286.52,"text":"包含我們擴大的這個癌症篩檢的這個對象"},{"start":9286.52,"end":9287.52,"text":"把它做擴大"},{"start":9287.52,"end":9290.52,"text":"那第二個是把有關LDT"},{"start":9290.52,"end":9291.52,"text":"就基因檢測的部分"},{"start":9291.52,"end":9294.52,"text":"精準醫療的這個部分把它納入給付"},{"start":9294.52,"end":9296.52,"text":"那第三個當然大家更清楚的是"},{"start":9296.52,"end":9299.52,"text":"有關我們的百億的抗癌新藥基金"},{"start":9299.52,"end":9306.52,"text":"來去針對我們新申請出來的這一些抗癌的一些製劑"},{"start":9306.52,"end":9310.52,"text":"能夠透過所謂的這個優先給付"},{"start":9310.52,"end":9313.52,"text":"透過這個暫時性給付的方式"},{"start":9313.52,"end":9317.52,"text":"能夠讓這個藥品可以提照給國人"},{"start":9317.52,"end":9320.52,"text":"在健保上面的使用來去做處理"},{"start":9320.52,"end":9321.52,"text":"那另外有關自費的部分"},{"start":9321.52,"end":9324.52,"text":"我們從受理案件開始"},{"start":9324.52,"end":9327.52,"text":"大概我們看到的說"},{"start":9327.52,"end":9330.52,"text":"如果是屬於用於這個傷口"},{"start":9330.52,"end":9334.52,"text":"或者是軟組織的一個治療費用的這個部分"},{"start":9334.52,"end":9338.52,"text":"大概平均自費大概是30萬到50萬"},{"start":9338.52,"end":9340.52,"text":"那如果是屬於癌症的話"},{"start":9340.52,"end":9342.52,"text":"大概是100萬到200萬不等"},{"start":9342.52,"end":9345.52,"text":"那目前來講這一些自費的審查"},{"start":9345.52,"end":9347.52,"text":"因為考量到說"},{"start":9347.52,"end":9348.52,"text":"按照我們醫療法的規定"},{"start":9348.52,"end":9350.52,"text":"其實醫療機構要收取自費"},{"start":9350.52,"end":9353.52,"text":"它必須要經當地衛生局去核准"},{"start":9353.52,"end":9357.52,"text":"可是因為這樣子一個案件可能就要送22個縣市"},{"start":9357.52,"end":9360.52,"text":"所以我們從114年開始"},{"start":9360.52,"end":9364.52,"text":"我們也有推動全國醫療費用的一個資訊平台"},{"start":9364.52,"end":9366.52,"text":"那只要是全國首例"},{"start":9366.52,"end":9373.52,"text":"沒有對應到現在的一個這個醫療費用的幾副項目的醫療器材"},{"start":9373.52,"end":9374.52,"text":"或者新醫療技術"},{"start":9374.52,"end":9376.52,"text":"都可以透過我們這個平台"},{"start":9376.52,"end":9381.52,"text":"由衛福部來去協同地方共同審查"},{"start":9381.52,"end":9386.52,"text":"來加快有關自費收取費用的費額的一個審查流程"},{"start":9386.52,"end":9389.52,"text":"讓大家能夠儘快讓這個技術進入到市場"},{"start":9389.52,"end":9391.52,"text":"這邊也就是說一併做一個補充"},{"start":9392.34,"end":9394.34,"text":"大概是屬於醫療技術的部分"},{"start":9394.34,"end":9396.34,"text":"在這邊做個說明"},{"start":9396.34,"end":9398.34,"text":"那有關藥品的部分我們就請我們食藥署"},{"start":9398.34,"end":9399.34,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9399.57,"end":9401.57,"text":"主席各位委員會先進大家好"},{"start":9401.57,"end":9402.57,"text":"那食藥署這邊補充一下"},{"start":9402.57,"end":9405.57,"text":"那隨著再生醫療製劑條例的一個完成制定"},{"start":9405.57,"end":9407.57,"text":"其實我們相關配套的七項子法規"},{"start":9407.57,"end":9410.57,"text":"都已經在去年完成訂定以及公告"},{"start":9410.57,"end":9414.57,"text":"那也配合的再生醫療雙法在今年1月1號同步實行"},{"start":9414.57,"end":9420.57,"text":"那在截至今天其實食藥署已經核准了9項的再生醫療製劑的藥品許可證"},{"start":9420.57,"end":9423.57,"text":"以及核准了181項的臨床試驗在台執行"},{"start":9423.57,"end":9425.57,"text":"那要推動整個再生醫療製劑的產業"},{"start":9425.57,"end":9427.57,"text":"其實我們今年也推動了"},{"start":9427.57,"end":9429.57,"text":"台灣再生醫療製劑的輔導專案"},{"start":9429.57,"end":9431.57,"text":"我們簡稱TRMATE"},{"start":9431.57,"end":9434.57,"text":"它其實是透過一個包含CDE TFDA"},{"start":9434.57,"end":9435.57,"text":"還有我們的申請商這邊"},{"start":9435.57,"end":9439.57,"text":"我們一個高密度的雙向溝通的諮詢輔導的方式"},{"start":9439.57,"end":9443.57,"text":"那希望可以提供一個可預測性的法規科學建議"},{"start":9443.57,"end":9445.57,"text":"那未來其實他們在做正式的申請的時候"},{"start":9445.57,"end":9447.57,"text":"它是具有審查的拘束效力"},{"start":9447.57,"end":9449.57,"text":"那也呼籲了剛剛葉理事長這邊"},{"start":9449.57,"end":9452.57,"text":"期待的希望能夠讓審查更透明"},{"start":9452.57,"end":9455.57,"text":"讓業者更了解我們的審查端的一個考量點"},{"start":9455.57,"end":9458.57,"text":"所以我們正在持續進行能夠透過業者的一個加入"},{"start":9458.57,"end":9460.57,"text":"能夠雙方的溝通"},{"start":9460.57,"end":9462.57,"text":"互相能夠更有一個管道"},{"start":9462.57,"end":9465.57,"text":"然後更有一個互相開放對話的一個平台"},{"start":9465.57,"end":9469.57,"text":"那最後其實透過了整個法規管理的一個建構"},{"start":9469.57,"end":9471.57,"text":"然後以及我們的專案輔導陪跑機制"},{"start":9471.57,"end":9474.57,"text":"那希望可以促進我們整個再生醫療製劑產業的發展"},{"start":9474.57,"end":9477.57,"text":"那同時也保障我們整個病人的一個用藥可進性"},{"start":9477.57,"end":9479.57,"text":"跟一個安全性"},{"start":9479.57,"end":9480.57,"text":"以上報告謝謝"},{"start":9480.57,"end":9484.57,"text":"好非常感謝我們衛福部醫事司跟食藥署的回應"},{"start":9484.57,"end":9488.57,"text":"也希望透過更透明的修法的進度"},{"start":9488.57,"end":9490.57,"text":"跟產業界有更多的溝通"},{"start":9490.57,"end":9495.57,"text":"那我想對整體的包括再生治濟醫療法的發展會更好"},{"start":9495.57,"end":9501.57,"text":"好最後一位我邀請勞動部勞動條件及就業平等司的副市長"},{"start":9501.57,"end":9503.57,"text":"王副市長來做回應說明謝謝"},{"start":9510.48,"end":9514.48,"text":"主席還有各位專家學者還有余慧仙請大家好"},{"start":9514.48,"end":9521.48,"text":"勞動部針對這次的公聽會針對這個薪資跟就業相關的事項來說明如下"},{"start":9521.48,"end":9523.48,"text":"第一個部分的話就是"},{"start":9523.48,"end":9529.48,"text":"大家都很關心我們這個最低工資調漲的事項"},{"start":9529.48,"end":9535.48,"text":"所以自一百一百零五年以來其實已經連續十年有調漲"},{"start":9535.48,"end":9539.48,"text":"對於整體的這個平均薪資的增長具有正面的影響"},{"start":9539.48,"end":9543.48,"text":"那今年我們也會依法在第三季召開最低工資審議會"},{"start":9544.97,"end":9552.97,"text":"那就是屆時審議委員也會將依照這個法定參彩的這些相關的指標來決定"},{"start":9552.97,"end":9559.97,"text":"一一六年的最低工資數額來保障這個勞工的基本的就是經濟生活"},{"start":9559.97,"end":9565.97,"text":"那另外就是有關這個強化勞工職場競爭力跟這個議價能力"},{"start":9565.97,"end":9568.97,"text":"那這個部分的話我們勞動力發展署"},{"start":9568.97,"end":9574.97,"text":"針對不管是青年失業者或是在職者的都有不同的對象"},{"start":9574.97,"end":9578.97,"text":"都有持續推動各項的職業訓練的一個措施"},{"start":9578.97,"end":9582.97,"text":"那今天與會的專家學者也有提到就是有關這個"},{"start":9582.97,"end":9587.97,"text":"要提升這個勞工的這個相關的技能包含這個AI人工智慧"},{"start":9587.97,"end":9593.97,"text":"那這個部分我們勞動部這邊也有針對這個就是AI這個知識人的提升"},{"start":9593.97,"end":9600.97,"text":"提升了我們有相關的這個訓練的課程包含自辦或者是學校"},{"start":9600.97,"end":9603.97,"text":"或者是民間團體合作辦理"},{"start":9603.97,"end":9607.97,"text":"那不管是這個補助的經費或者是訓練的輔導"},{"start":9607.97,"end":9610.97,"text":"我們都有持續在做推動"},{"start":9610.97,"end":9617.97,"text":"那勞動部我們向來都認同說企業應該有盈餘就應該跟勞工來做分享"},{"start":9617.97,"end":9619.97,"text":"然後以利這個劉彩"},{"start":9619.97,"end":9624.97,"text":"所以我們其實也會持續在落實各項的勞動政策"},{"start":9624.97,"end":9627.97,"text":"也會在適當的場合跟時機來鼓勵企業"},{"start":9627.97,"end":9629.97,"text":"善盡企業社會的責任"},{"start":9629.97,"end":9632.97,"text":"來提升勞工的薪資改善勞工的勞動條件"},{"start":9632.97,"end":9633.97,"text":"以上"},{"start":9635.3,"end":9638.3,"text":"非常感謝我們王副市長"},{"start":9638.3,"end":9642.3,"text":"接下來我請問各位專家學者有沒有要做第二輪的發言"},{"start":9642.3,"end":9643.3,"text":"沒有"},{"start":9643.3,"end":9644.3,"text":"好"},{"start":9644.3,"end":9645.3,"text":"非常感謝大家"},{"start":9645.3,"end":9650.3,"text":"那我們現在相關的行政機關已做回應"},{"start":9650.3,"end":9653.3,"text":"依據立法院職權行使法第58條的規定"},{"start":9653.3,"end":9657.3,"text":"文會應於公聽會終結10日內"},{"start":9657.3,"end":9661.3,"text":"依出席者所提供之正反意見提出公聽會的報告"},{"start":9661.3,"end":9664.3,"text":"宋教本院全體委員及出席者"},{"start":9664.3,"end":9668.3,"text":"所以我們會把今天跟與會者所有寶貴的發言意見"},{"start":9668.3,"end":9671.3,"text":"作為未來修法的參考"},{"start":9671.3,"end":9675.3,"text":"並會編成策宋教本院全體委員"},{"start":9675.3,"end":9680.3,"text":"以及今天出席、練習的所有的學者專家提供建言的貴賓參閱"},{"start":9680.3,"end":9684.3,"text":"如果各位貴賓還有其他的書面意見或相關的資料"},{"start":9684.3,"end":9688.3,"text":"也請儘速提供給我們將並入本次的公聽會報告"},{"start":9688.3,"end":9690.3,"text":"再次感謝各位學者專家"},{"start":9690.3,"end":9694.3,"text":"還有包括今天出席的政府機關代表的出席"},{"start":9694.3,"end":9695.3,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9695.3,"end":9696.3,"text":"我們散會"},{"start":9696.3,"end":9697.3,"text":"謝謝"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":80.73,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_00","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":426.5,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_01","speaker":"SPEAKER_01","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":932.41,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_02","speaker":"SPEAKER_02","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":437.42,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_03","speaker":"SPEAKER_03","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":593.53,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_04","speaker":"SPEAKER_04","embedding":"U1sRvrPk8Lyn4AG+Z74HvTGljT2Zi6S97U85PkdNrb1ZwtS8BoiTPgOGdT26iIc8isCevrtUET7UMpo9fPX2PANTub0taCg+jlIKvWMEmb0/Kks9MvOhvWdhk7xPPwo+RqRoPifIbz7giva9MibAPeIPgTyKJE89fbaGPp+XQ74Jd5W+QaCDPt6tpz5Jb5O+J70Rvv40VL2t2y0+FcM7Ps5NMDzQmpO6Gl6VPfVJ3z03noA+gKaFPlW4Tr1KmRy9YjzfvA1ySb47JL29yPC4PdpsID7uGDE+sWbKPY+DQT16hYk9A/T8vYQvk71+Uuc9iKEfvqR2CT6CfiE9bIgQPjTCL7qpnas++W/cPejzWz0JQRG+6ViFPti2j7x+4xo8uXpovbXSursYhqK9/pxMPYzZlr0Gife9yhRdPm1CTb4RLGS+FFDcu6Pt6D7OkNE8v7y4vkxYGr4uDTO+gBCSvdSqpb1h3Ja9x/DYPdQXsjzDm4G9dayDPr3YCL7eV0m+YOPdvB3hLb6xYSw+PRtKvpt1A76j5kC9Z8QGPuuutj3df0u8NV4CvnGq5D1XqtQ+swuNPXRpET0Xsi8+ficXPsrQDr5fL2i+/C/HvWeAJb451aE+IJv/PVEaS71E8zM+a/ODPTrfmL4vtAA+hvK+PGmpMj1jM6w9j1kHvj/Znjx65SW+B08svmky4zyAtOW+J35FPsMA2b2ZQ8A7glglvT6IlL1TtBM8KswdveZtnz4Tqha93gU2PLd+hz3/VFg+SXFEve8uaD3sKVc8LO3QvVPgFT70s/m8/ZQRvOgylL6/C0m+D/GOvhlT07saBoY+Yn5Rvr7Pt73AFMg9kfJaPrwWy76ziWY+0EUGvTSHLr7yyws8yTgMPD7rPb0UNr89bgdPPf99MztTUwi+uWBUvHTdmb0xp8G91A2KPgCVAD0Fs+e8nVoVvhmbS74eYjg9bCwzvkpyaD2+Y9o95PaRveBQkD68F52+XUOCPD5eHj1pzgM8v9eBPt2wqj0HiWY+NT2TPTcWQ72o9ZC9hFjZvbGWzr09N1C+3zMlPlEQ9j2pfeI8uSmauNQjcb1qjhI9D7kOPr8tkz4ecoG9hZgwPg60oLz8J+s8rtk8Prv8fz63k9M90WmcPUpGRb3cQJ86xjG9vS4aV73NrY08N77GPvVSq7sZhe09gKdpvQHdRr6oJH08CKRNvShkaL4ohQY+Kk4HvfNjjb5mNlE+wZmivdKYZj5kPpW9TbaXPMG52Lx+B9w9ITsgvn4fDD4PY0Y+GNRBvoqKlr0eMFU9MDgGPmUBL75lRQK+eoXZPf8eQL5YnZG+ggFSPtX98zyvuy6+6ACnvYDhmj6EGXc+Pr0bvg=="},{"total_seconds":534.01,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_05","speaker":"SPEAKER_05","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":328.89,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_06","speaker":"SPEAKER_06","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":486.42,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_07","speaker":"SPEAKER_07","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":0.62,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_08","speaker":"SPEAKER_08","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":539.76,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_09","speaker":"SPEAKER_09","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":434.63,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_10","speaker":"SPEAKER_10","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":523.46,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_11","speaker":"SPEAKER_11","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":373.49,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_12","speaker":"SPEAKER_12","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":356.28,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_13","speaker":"SPEAKER_13","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":122.44,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_14","speaker":"SPEAKER_14","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":343.27,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_15","speaker":"SPEAKER_15","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":766.78,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_16","speaker":"SPEAKER_16","embedding":"X/VavXdvIz4a/A0+AZejvu3jub2HNqc+meY5PmwVk72MIHG+y1dWvhryOr4/xzM9USFgvMZA8zwVn2G8fHa5Pe41D77I4SY+muyNPiULEr4t4Gq+d9n2vRWuLL2L7pY+ZeePvdGLxT5KeA6+N8pxvh24+zvOCAS+hsazvXl8YD3wL1a+1S5HvgBaw73c2mS+4L8XvnakAr4RGpY9F0cNvsXehj2abUg8rOEFveozMryR1EQ9DrQAvHNOlL2HyI0+nuxfvtQqij7guGK9Q/Y8vvn2ID2Erii9r3GvPeKNNb2Bf3s+NeDSPbvaiL4W/dK8/043vgp8Yj2yg/I9STN1vMD8Tr3wpk8+H075PSUhOr5qXAs9smCfPY6Oob46XlY+9H4TvTkMSb2y0Kw92SnkPUnIKj5tPJi9XqjxPXGegr3Wc8w9kHsGPs/1KT1HkMS9Hx4IvURokbsRC/S9M/YpvgddsT1Irpq9oAsHvqbaK766WjS+zloUPvuBDT7PIku+z+isOz4scL2iqa08Z5RVvgLTCb08abM96ZOEu3oCZLyF1LO82wPMvWTATD6A8Eg+kSVhPqRKlr44cMm9GwYgPur8hT3MGA++31dtPqt+kT3A76K9GAgAvtxPvr3bdAM7SESjPW5ygTqhw869qSq3PWC3yz6Pn448Cf7IPTm3Rz52VIS9RSvEPsgbPD3OxLG+y+Etvdq0sb2XpIC96A+bvbxIK77Yx5c84woWO5rY8L3Ww0c+wYTFPZGkKDwplqM90n3Qu/0S2j1nqoQ+vwzEvDkWyL2gNbQ9jiX9PXfSy7ylFmy+QPACvpb0BD4djaw9XiQKPmsR7r1sy9Q9yiV9PXNTjztLHlE+7Q92Po6jHD4Pupa9bUdOPTdcrD0LM7c97bcoPotcFz0R/rQ7Ywj+OhEMTDzKi6O8b2RAvs8kzDxuEg698W9bvaOQG739lQi+QrlevlTVCD3V14q+zpa6vaP0YD3eoY6+IptYPmNRuj1F7nm9XMMfPvUH4T1Yz2G9d1VUvUCiFb5v5iy9EKiZPWzZpr00dCc+zAo/Pp3DTr73kZo98fsYvJXeXT0YHt09gncPPhU6fD2ZDDO+USPmvWP2rT1vr5s+rydYvfj7CrxvopG7kFgavufclj0niOa9oFimPa2gJj0mZkM+H1OdvQytWr7XO5c992H3PAfULb7Po7S9Sogavmtxpb02BFE9lp4XvnN6cT3nZHg9s5nCvG208j0jfMi8Z2QZPSYblj1kLz++8bcnvo7wjL42gsi76Qagva88Ir07MQo+Vhv2vXpoeL6A/WG9o4kIvnJQ3T2niSi+sdEYPBBgsbzft7S+JktpPV7nnb51DDS+aI67vQ=="}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}