{"error":false,"id":["17633"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17633,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17633","日期":"2026-07-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-15-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2026-07-30T08:31:03+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-30T12:39:00+08:00","影片長度":"04:07:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea36c9025ded6a2485d6a76734f73991829c076e573ffc041275b6ce8f2d5775b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-07-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部、國家通訊傳播委員會、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會就「『海路－南島語族航海計畫』、『國際原住民族傳統競技文化交流族語節目（世界原住民族傳統運動會）』、『原住民族廣播電臺訊源傳輸及監控系統設備建置與相關基地台設置』等重大計畫執行進度、經費運用及成果認定檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、「原住民身分法」等11案：(一)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民身分法部分條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「原住民身分法第十一條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員高金素梅等17人擬具「原住民身分法刪除第十一條條文草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員黃仁等19人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員黃仁等18人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員盧縣一等17人擬具「原住民身分法第四條條文修正草案」案。(十)審查委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五條條文修正草案」案。(十一)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。三、「原住民族基本法」等15案：(一)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二條之二條文草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員黃仁等30人擬具「原住民族基本法第十九條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃仁等26人擬具「原住民族基本法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員黃仁等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員黃仁等22人擬具「原住民族基本法第十條條文修正草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員黃仁等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第六條條文修正草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員高金素梅等20人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(十三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(十四)審查委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「原住民族基本法第二條條文修正草案」案。(十五)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條、第二十一條之一及第二十一條之二條文修正草案」案。【法案進行逐條審查】）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:31:03 - 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本次議程報告事項與討論事項"},{"start":2140.64,"end":2144.04,"text":"詳並詢答 現在介紹在場委員及列席官員"},{"start":2144.04,"end":2145.64,"text":"首先介紹王美慧委員"},{"start":2145.64,"end":2147.44,"text":"大家好 歡迎到站"},{"start":2147.44,"end":2148.64,"text":"吳齊銘委員"},{"start":2150.44,"end":2151.44,"text":"蘇巧慧委員"},{"start":2152.64,"end":2155.64,"text":"我們介紹列席官員"},{"start":2155.64,"end":2159.24,"text":"又到了袁明宇的教學時間"},{"start":2159.24,"end":2164.24,"text":"我們原住民族委員會常務副主任委員"},{"start":2165.04,"end":2165.64,"text":"阿達六"},{"start":2166.64,"end":2168.44,"text":"還有我們裁斷法人"},{"start":2168.44,"end":2172.44,"text":"原住民族文化事業基金會董事長馬羅斯"},{"start":2173.04,"end":2176.04,"text":"其餘官員請自行參與"},{"start":2177.74,"end":2180.74,"text":"那我們是不是就不進行提案說明"},{"start":2185.14,"end":2186.14,"text":"好 現在進行報告"},{"start":2186.8399999999997,"end":2191.24,"text":"請我們原住民族委員會副主任委員阿達六報告"},{"start":2196.04,"end":2198.64,"text":"兩項專題報告及討論事項"},{"start":2198.64,"end":2199.8399999999997,"text":"所列法人請一併報告"},{"start":2200.64,"end":2202.64,"text":"好 主席各位委員先進"},{"start":2202.64,"end":2206.64,"text":"今日受邀海陸南島宇族航海計畫"},{"start":2206.64,"end":2211.04,"text":"國際原住民族傳統競技文化交流主義節目"},{"start":2211.04,"end":2217.04,"text":"以及原住民族廣播電台訊源傳輸及監控系統設備建置"},{"start":2217.04,"end":2220.64,"text":"相關基地台建置等三項計畫之執行進度"},{"start":2220.64,"end":2224.04,"text":"經費的運用以及成果進行專案報告"},{"start":2224.04,"end":2226.04,"text":"以下分為三個部分報告"},{"start":2226.04,"end":2229.04,"text":"第一海陸南島宇族航海計畫"},{"start":2229.04,"end":2234.04,"text":"本計畫目的在重建台灣南宇與菲律賓巴丹群島"},{"start":2234.04,"end":2237.04,"text":"兼中斷三百年的海上航路"},{"start":2237.04,"end":2241.04,"text":"我們已經完成了建造二十人座的傳統拼板舟"},{"start":2241.04,"end":2243.04,"text":"500樣黃金友誼號"},{"start":2243.04,"end":2246.04,"text":"並在今年的6月15號到18號"},{"start":2246.04,"end":2250.04,"text":"由我國南宇航行至菲律賓巴丹群島"},{"start":2250.04,"end":2253.04,"text":"完成跨越巴士海峽的歷史性航行"},{"start":2253.04,"end":2258.04,"text":"隨後在6月26日將該船贈予巴丹省政府"},{"start":2258.04,"end":2262.04,"text":"象徵南島民族文化的再次連結"},{"start":2262.04,"end":2265.04,"text":"這個總經費是3850萬"},{"start":2265.04,"end":2270.04,"text":"由本會以文化部海洋委員會以及外交部捐助原文會辦理"},{"start":2270.04,"end":2274.04,"text":"目前已達成航行與文化交流等階段性目標"},{"start":2274.04,"end":2278.04,"text":"後續將持續進行足以影音節目的後製"},{"start":2279.04,"end":2283.04,"text":"以保存寶貴的傳統詔咒技術與航海知識"},{"start":2283.04,"end":2287.04,"text":"第二,國際原住民族傳統經濟文化交流主義的節目"},{"start":2287.04,"end":2290.04,"text":"就是世界原住民族傳統運動會"},{"start":2291.04,"end":2296.04,"text":"在114年12月辦理2025年世界原住民族傳統運動會"},{"start":2296.04,"end":2303.04,"text":"邀請來自十個國家28支代表隊約1100名選手參與"},{"start":2303.04,"end":2308.04,"text":"進賽項目包含了射箭傳統、樂舞等10項競技"},{"start":2308.04,"end":2311.04,"text":"執行的經費大概在8500萬"},{"start":2311.04,"end":2314.04,"text":"除完成賽事接待與競技外"},{"start":2314.04,"end":2319.04,"text":"重點在於透過原住民族電視台進行轉播與數位傳播"},{"start":2319.04,"end":2324.04,"text":"將國際交流成果轉化為豐富的主義文化教材"},{"start":2324.04,"end":2326.04,"text":"衍生活動的保存效益"},{"start":2326.04,"end":2332.04,"text":"第三個部分,原住民族廣播電台訓言傳輸及相關基地台的建置"},{"start":2332.04,"end":2336.04,"text":"本計畫依據行政院核定的原住民族廣播電台設置"},{"start":2336.04,"end":2340.04,"text":"第二期110年到115年的修正計畫辦理"},{"start":2340.04,"end":2343.04,"text":"目的在積極提升廣播服務涵蓋率"},{"start":2343.04,"end":2347.04,"text":"截至今年6月底,規劃的37座廣播站中"},{"start":2347.04,"end":2351.04,"text":"已經完成了32座並取得執照"},{"start":2351.04,"end":2354.04,"text":"目前電播的涵蓋率已達到82%"},{"start":2354.04,"end":2357.04,"text":"原住民族人口的涵蓋率達到78%"},{"start":2358.04,"end":2363.04,"text":"有效強化了原鄉的公共資訊與防災傳遞的能力"},{"start":2363.04,"end":2370.04,"text":"剩餘的5座站點因為涉及地形地質、土地使用等複雜因素進度稍有延宕"},{"start":2370.04,"end":2376.04,"text":"本會已督導研文會針對個案檢討工法或重新辦理採購"},{"start":2376.04,"end":2380.04,"text":"確保公共資源能妥善的運用,並如期的結案"},{"start":2380.04,"end":2384.04,"text":"綜合以上的報告,本會將持續監督研文會"},{"start":2384.04,"end":2388.04,"text":"確保各項計畫經費透明進度落實"},{"start":2388.04,"end":2391.04,"text":"對於涉及跨部會或高難度的工程案件"},{"start":2391.04,"end":2395.04,"text":"我們將加強風險管控與履約督導"},{"start":2395.04,"end":2400.04,"text":"務求達成原住民族文化傳承,以媒體服務的最高效益"},{"start":2400.04,"end":2405.04,"text":"另外,接著針對這個原住民身分法以及原住民族基本法"},{"start":2405.04,"end":2407.04,"text":"部分條文修正草案報告"},{"start":2407.04,"end":2413.04,"text":"有關委員所提的原住民身分法草案第一案至第六案"},{"start":2413.04,"end":2418.04,"text":"及委員所提的原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案第一案至十二案"},{"start":2418.04,"end":2425.04,"text":"本會之前在114年11月26日第11屆第四會期第13次全體委員會議"},{"start":2425.04,"end":2433.04,"text":"及114年5月22日第11屆第3會期第21次全體委員會議提報意見在案"},{"start":2433.04,"end":2439.04,"text":"以下,僅分別就委員所提的原住民身分法第7案至第11案"},{"start":2439.04,"end":2446.04,"text":"以及原住民族基本法第13案至第15案之各項修正草案說明如下"},{"start":2446.04,"end":2448.04,"text":"原住民身分法的部分"},{"start":2448.04,"end":2453.04,"text":"原住民認定應兼顧血統、民族認統及歷史脈絡"},{"start":2453.04,"end":2457.04,"text":"原住民身分法攸關身分認定及相關權益"},{"start":2457.04,"end":2463.04,"text":"修法應兼顧立法的目的、制度的安定以及族人的權益,應審慎處理"},{"start":2463.04,"end":2468.04,"text":"第二條如果刪除登記的要件,將使平地原住民身分產生混淆"},{"start":2468.04,"end":2470.04,"text":"建議維持現行規定"},{"start":2470.04,"end":2478.04,"text":"第7條如將例外適用擴及曾孫等後代,可能會過度延伸,以審慎評估"},{"start":2478.04,"end":2485.04,"text":"此外,取得身分任意具備傳統名字或從原住民父母姓知認同表徵"},{"start":2485.04,"end":2492.04,"text":"至於修法前死亡之子女,得準用規定取得身分,本會尊重修法方向"},{"start":2492.04,"end":2495.04,"text":"並建議明定5年的過渡期"},{"start":2495.04,"end":2501.04,"text":"原住民族基本法的部分,本會支持持續完善原住民族權利保障"},{"start":2501.04,"end":2507.04,"text":"但修法仍應兼顧既有的法治、實務的運作、部落自主及族人的權益"},{"start":2507.04,"end":2511.04,"text":"對於已有法律明定的事項,亦避免重複規範"},{"start":2511.04,"end":2518.04,"text":"例如平普原住民族權利,以及原住民族日、歲食祭、放假等事項"},{"start":2518.04,"end":2524.04,"text":"現行法律已有規定,建議避免重複入法,涉及各機關權責者"},{"start":2524.04,"end":2528.04,"text":"本會尊重主管機關意見及大院的審議"},{"start":2528.04,"end":2535.04,"text":"有關21條諮商同意的制度,建議明確規範土地制度諮商同意"},{"start":2535.04,"end":2538.04,"text":"參與權力限制與損失補償"},{"start":2538.04,"end":2544.04,"text":"原住民族基本法是權利保障的尚未規範,不宜增列法則"},{"start":2544.04,"end":2550.04,"text":"若以刑罰介入部落內部的決策,可能造成檢舉及對立"},{"start":2550.04,"end":2554.04,"text":"影響族群的和諧,應審慎評估並充分溝通"},{"start":2554.04,"end":2558.04,"text":"以確保制度的穩健、權利保障的周全"},{"start":2558.04,"end":2562.04,"text":"以上兩項報告,進行主席及各位委員指教"},{"start":2562.04,"end":2564.04,"text":"殺保馬爾拉能仔"},{"start":2564.04,"end":2574.04,"text":"其他單位的報告,請委員自行參閱並刊登公報"},{"start":2574.04,"end":2578.04,"text":"現在進行詢答委員質詢前,原例做幾點宣告"},{"start":2578.04,"end":2585.04,"text":"本會委員及原住民委員原例質詢時間5分鐘必要時,得延長2分鐘"},{"start":2585.04,"end":2590.04,"text":"非本會委員質詢時間5分鐘,上午10點30分截止發言登記"},{"start":2590.04,"end":2597.04,"text":"本次會議臨時提案截止提出時間11點,與本會委員詢答完畢後處理"},{"start":2597.04,"end":2599.04,"text":"請問各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":2608.04,"end":2613.04,"text":"現在就進行詢答,請登記第一位蘇巧會委員發言質詢"},{"start":2620.04,"end":2629.04,"text":"好,謝謝主席,那我們就請副主委"},{"start":2629.04,"end":2639.04,"text":"好,跟本委員報告,主任委員"},{"start":2639.04,"end":2648.04,"text":"保住,因為參加,照行政院主持,希拉亞族民族和定紀證明宣告典禮"},{"start":2648.04,"end":2654.04,"text":"因此會在結束後回來列席,大概11點的時候回到委員會,以上跟委員會報告"},{"start":2654.04,"end":2658.04,"text":"好,謝謝,那副主委早安"},{"start":2658.04,"end":2662.04,"text":"我本來第一張是直接要問主委"},{"start":2662.04,"end":2664.04,"text":"但是副主委也很清楚"},{"start":2664.04,"end":2671.04,"text":"這張照片的話,應該是在今年3月的時候,我們新北市衛方文件展開展"},{"start":2671.04,"end":2674.04,"text":"那副主委您當天有去嗎?"},{"start":2674.04,"end":2677.04,"text":"沒有,因為主委已經去了嘛,對,主委在現場"},{"start":2677.04,"end":2683.04,"text":"但是你應該後來也去過了吧,3月到現在有沒有機會去到過?"},{"start":2683.04,"end":2684.04,"text":"沒有的話可以來一下"},{"start":2684.04,"end":2686.04,"text":"應該是那個,古仲應該有去過"},{"start":2686.04,"end":2687.04,"text":"古仲去過"},{"start":2687.04,"end":2688.04,"text":"沒有分工"},{"start":2688.04,"end":2692.04,"text":"好,沒問題,我想原民會業務是一體的,所以您應該也清楚"},{"start":2692.04,"end":2696.04,"text":"那這位衛方文件展,通常服務的長者大概有多少人,你知道嗎?"},{"start":2696.04,"end":2698.04,"text":"20位"},{"start":2698.04,"end":2700.04,"text":"才15到20"},{"start":2700.04,"end":2702.04,"text":"那怎麼去?服務的範圍是哪邊?"},{"start":2704.04,"end":2707.04,"text":"其實就是我們周圍,這個衛方嘛"},{"start":2707.04,"end":2709.04,"text":"以周圍部落為主啦"},{"start":2709.04,"end":2711.04,"text":"對,周圍部落,可是"},{"start":2711.04,"end":2713.04,"text":"調查相關原住民的"},{"start":2713.04,"end":2719.04,"text":"是,可是副主委,我們這樣在進行對話,你知道我知道,可是其他人可能不一定知道"},{"start":2719.04,"end":2725.04,"text":"我們現在在講,衛方這邊所謂的部落的時候,其實新北市的部落是屬於非常散居的狀況"},{"start":2725.04,"end":2729.04,"text":"他一個就是,快樂山、阿美家園、劍基、黃金大鎮"},{"start":2729.04,"end":2731.04,"text":"其實都小小的小小的小小的"},{"start":2731.04,"end":2733.04,"text":"都是從外部遷進來的"},{"start":2733.04,"end":2736.04,"text":"對,所以跟我們如果在東部在談一個部落"},{"start":2736.04,"end":2739.04,"text":"好,甚至不要講那麼遠,在我們在講烏來一個部落"},{"start":2739.04,"end":2743.04,"text":"的話,其實那個規模大小是完全不一樣的"},{"start":2743.04,"end":2746.04,"text":"所以我們現在這個所謂衛方文件展"},{"start":2746.04,"end":2748.04,"text":"他設置的位置是在"},{"start":2748.04,"end":2753.04,"text":"所謂的,我們剛剛講的那四個阿美家園、黃金大鎮等等部落裡面嗎?"},{"start":2753.04,"end":2756.04,"text":"不是吧?其實不是啊"},{"start":2756.04,"end":2757.04,"text":"不是不是"},{"start":2757.04,"end":2758.04,"text":"其實不是嘛"},{"start":2758.04,"end":2763.04,"text":"所以簡單講就是,我們其實在新北市現在的文件展裡面"},{"start":2763.04,"end":2766.04,"text":"文住民的文件展裡面,他很有可能的狀況是"},{"start":2766.04,"end":2768.04,"text":"他找一個適當的地點設置之後"},{"start":2768.04,"end":2771.04,"text":"他是服務周邊的原民"},{"start":2771.04,"end":2773.04,"text":"而且就是散居的其他狀況"},{"start":2773.04,"end":2775.04,"text":"即便你稱之他為一個聚落"},{"start":2775.04,"end":2779.04,"text":"但其他的人數也不同於我們了解的原民傳統部落那麼大"},{"start":2779.04,"end":2782.04,"text":"好,所以大家就來文件展"},{"start":2782.04,"end":2786.04,"text":"絕對不是在部落裡面用步行行走就可以走到文件展"},{"start":2786.04,"end":2790.04,"text":"完全不是吧?這是要有個交通的問題"},{"start":2790.04,"end":2792.04,"text":"所以,像在衛方這裡的話"},{"start":2792.04,"end":2795.04,"text":"那他的問題會是什麼?大家想像一下嘛"},{"start":2795.04,"end":2797.04,"text":"我從我居住的地方要到文件展"},{"start":2797.04,"end":2800.04,"text":"其實要嘛,這個我就是要坐公車"},{"start":2800.04,"end":2802.04,"text":"甚至還要轉乘"},{"start":2802.04,"end":2803.04,"text":"甚至還要轉乘"},{"start":2803.04,"end":2806.04,"text":"要嘛就是這個要有志工來載我"},{"start":2806.04,"end":2809.04,"text":"因為我一定要移動啊,我要有車輛才能移動"},{"start":2809.04,"end":2812.04,"text":"好,那我精神狀態、身體狀態最好的狀況是什麼?"},{"start":2812.04,"end":2814.04,"text":"我騎腳踏車"},{"start":2814.04,"end":2817.04,"text":"騎腳踏車自己過去這個文件展"},{"start":2817.04,"end":2820.04,"text":"好,那我們這個衛方文件展在哪邊?"},{"start":2820.04,"end":2822.04,"text":"在瑞賓公路旁邊啊、在海邊啊"},{"start":2822.04,"end":2823.04,"text":"剛剛不是也說了嗎?"},{"start":2823.04,"end":2827.04,"text":"所以我們是騎著腳踏車的長者"},{"start":2827.04,"end":2831.04,"text":"要穿過瑞賓公路這麼多大型車輛經過的地方之後"},{"start":2831.04,"end":2833.04,"text":"才能到達文件展"},{"start":2833.04,"end":2835.04,"text":"主委、副主委"},{"start":2835.04,"end":2838.04,"text":"你不覺得這個其實很辛苦又不安全嗎?"},{"start":2838.04,"end":2840.04,"text":"對,我敢講這個沒有錯啊"},{"start":2840.04,"end":2843.04,"text":"因為這個瑞芳不是我們原住民地區"},{"start":2843.04,"end":2847.04,"text":"所以它不是像我們在原鄉的部落那麼集中"},{"start":2847.04,"end":2849.04,"text":"所以它的交通事實上是比較閃的"},{"start":2849.04,"end":2851.04,"text":"那我們事實上找地點也有很大的困難"},{"start":2851.04,"end":2853.04,"text":"好,沒關係,我今天不是跟你討論地點"},{"start":2853.04,"end":2855.04,"text":"交通的部分我知道"},{"start":2855.04,"end":2857.04,"text":"在原鄉其實很多時候是造福院"},{"start":2857.04,"end":2861.04,"text":"它直接去接送有一些更不方便的長者"},{"start":2861.04,"end":2864.04,"text":"但你針對這個都園的部分我們會來檢討看看"},{"start":2864.04,"end":2867.04,"text":"是用什麼方式來解決他們的交通問題"},{"start":2867.04,"end":2870.04,"text":"因為這個應該不是只有瑞芳應該其他"},{"start":2870.04,"end":2872.04,"text":"是,我今天就是跟你用這個例子來講"},{"start":2872.04,"end":2875.04,"text":"因為事實上我新北市的族群的部分"},{"start":2875.04,"end":2879.04,"text":"其實不只是原民,我在客家的時候也不停的質詢"},{"start":2879.04,"end":2882.04,"text":"事實上我客家的人口是僅次於桃園市"},{"start":2882.04,"end":2884.04,"text":"我的客家人口是非常的多"},{"start":2884.04,"end":2888.04,"text":"但是因為我們的居住方式等於是散居"},{"start":2888.04,"end":2891.04,"text":"所以它不會把我列為客家重點區域"},{"start":2891.04,"end":2894.04,"text":"所以我非常多的計畫補助其實都不能用的"},{"start":2894.04,"end":2896.04,"text":"同樣的道理,在新北市我的原民也是"},{"start":2896.04,"end":2900.04,"text":"你不可能把我列為一個原住民地區"},{"start":2900.04,"end":2903.04,"text":"除了烏來以外我都不是原住民地區"},{"start":2903.04,"end":2906.04,"text":"但是我的人口多不多,我的人口很多"},{"start":2906.04,"end":2910.04,"text":"所以在這樣的狀況下,我非常多的計畫、非常多的補助"},{"start":2910.04,"end":2912.04,"text":"我無法申請、無法使用"},{"start":2912.04,"end":2914.04,"text":"所以你看一下剛剛的交通"},{"start":2914.04,"end":2916.04,"text":"我們的交通那是什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":2916.04,"end":2923.04,"text":"所有文件站在實施費用補助的狀況下"},{"start":2923.04,"end":2926.04,"text":"費用補助的狀況下呢"},{"start":2926.04,"end":2929.04,"text":"你看它其實是有一個"},{"start":2929.04,"end":2931.04,"text":"為什麼是先這一張,下一張"},{"start":2931.04,"end":2936.04,"text":"它有一個在原住民地區的部分才有補助"},{"start":2936.04,"end":2940.04,"text":"原住民地區的部分才有補助C級招"},{"start":2940.04,"end":2944.04,"text":"才有補助失能的、輕度的這些的部分"},{"start":2944.04,"end":2947.04,"text":"但是它是只有在原民的部分才補助"},{"start":2947.04,"end":2950.04,"text":"但是因為反過來,我要做這些補助的時候"},{"start":2950.04,"end":2952.04,"text":"那我可以用什麼呢"},{"start":2952.04,"end":2954.04,"text":"我的基本業務費裡面可能會有"},{"start":2954.04,"end":2958.04,"text":"我有可能會有的是有車輛租金、郵費這些"},{"start":2958.04,"end":2963.04,"text":"可是這些的車輛租金、郵費是給來的長者用嗎"},{"start":2963.04,"end":2964.04,"text":"其實不是"},{"start":2964.04,"end":2968.04,"text":"其實是在用於維護這個文件站的工作人員"},{"start":2968.04,"end":2970.04,"text":"他可能要有車輛去租借"},{"start":2970.04,"end":2974.04,"text":"他可能這台公路車的時候要有去郵料去使用"},{"start":2974.04,"end":2976.04,"text":"那就算我這些人我讓他說"},{"start":2976.04,"end":2979.04,"text":"你說用照服員去接送這些長者好了"},{"start":2979.04,"end":2981.04,"text":"那這些人也要先找到啊"},{"start":2981.04,"end":2984.04,"text":"或者要有另聘司機啊"},{"start":2984.04,"end":2986.04,"text":"所以總而言之"},{"start":2986.04,"end":2988.04,"text":"如果我騙查你的這個補助計畫裡面"},{"start":2988.04,"end":2991.04,"text":"不管是在項目一的基本費用裡面"},{"start":2991.04,"end":2994.04,"text":"或者是在項目二的這個量"},{"start":2994.04,"end":2996.04,"text":"其他補助費用上面的話"},{"start":2996.04,"end":3000.04,"text":"其實都找不到相對應剛剛我們在說的"},{"start":3000.04,"end":3002.04,"text":"我在都市區"},{"start":3002.04,"end":3004.04,"text":"我在非原住民地區"},{"start":3004.04,"end":3005.04,"text":"那散居的狀況"},{"start":3005.04,"end":3007.04,"text":"要讓長輩來參與的時候"},{"start":3007.04,"end":3010.04,"text":"這一個交通我要怎麼處置"},{"start":3010.04,"end":3011.04,"text":"那主委您的建議"},{"start":3011.04,"end":3013.04,"text":"副主委您的建議會是怎麼樣"},{"start":3013.04,"end":3014.04,"text":"跟委員報告事實上"},{"start":3014.04,"end":3016.04,"text":"今年的業務費是有增加"},{"start":3016.04,"end":3017.04,"text":"就陳如委員講"},{"start":3017.04,"end":3020.04,"text":"他可能不會專門用在這個所謂的這個"},{"start":3020.04,"end":3022.04,"text":"你今年的費用增加是增加什麼"},{"start":3022.04,"end":3024.04,"text":"業務費就是他的遊資各方面我們有增加"},{"start":3024.04,"end":3026.04,"text":"剛剛你有提到說在非原地區"},{"start":3026.04,"end":3029.04,"text":"事實上是沒有這樣的實質的主義"},{"start":3029.04,"end":3030.04,"text":"你增加多少"},{"start":3030.04,"end":3033.04,"text":"我們大概跟那個一般的相當長"},{"start":3033.04,"end":3034.04,"text":"你現在大部分的有些是"},{"start":3034.04,"end":3037.04,"text":"按照人口比例嘛55到60"},{"start":3037.04,"end":3039.04,"text":"我們最高大概就是100萬"},{"start":3039.04,"end":3040.04,"text":"就是業務費的部分"},{"start":3040.04,"end":3042.04,"text":"業務費最高提高到100萬"},{"start":3042.04,"end":3044.04,"text":"但是有分級距會不同"},{"start":3044.04,"end":3045.04,"text":"分級距"},{"start":3045.04,"end":3046.04,"text":"那我拿翻這個表單"},{"start":3046.04,"end":3048.04,"text":"這個資料我們要立刻拿到"},{"start":3048.04,"end":3050.04,"text":"像我樹林文件站為例"},{"start":3050.04,"end":3052.04,"text":"你雖然按照人口數"},{"start":3052.04,"end":3055.04,"text":"你可以給我每年大概60萬左右的補助費"},{"start":3055.04,"end":3056.04,"text":"聽起來好像蠻多的"},{"start":3056.04,"end":3058.04,"text":"但是主委您知道嗎"},{"start":3058.04,"end":3062.04,"text":"以我們的這個文件站開設使用的電費來講"},{"start":3062.04,"end":3063.04,"text":"但季2萬"},{"start":3063.04,"end":3066.04,"text":"夏季的電費一個月就4萬"},{"start":3066.04,"end":3067.04,"text":"所以在這樣的狀況下"},{"start":3067.04,"end":3069.04,"text":"我一年60萬的補助"},{"start":3069.04,"end":3071.04,"text":"我光是電費就吃掉40萬"},{"start":3071.04,"end":3073.04,"text":"電費就剩40萬這樣的狀況"},{"start":3073.04,"end":3075.04,"text":"那我能夠剩多少"},{"start":3075.04,"end":3077.04,"text":"所以你現在說好"},{"start":3077.04,"end":3078.04,"text":"我們調高到100萬"},{"start":3078.04,"end":3080.04,"text":"這樣聽起來好像增加很多"},{"start":3080.04,"end":3081.04,"text":"但我也想知道"},{"start":3081.04,"end":3083.04,"text":"以我樹林的級距來說的話"},{"start":3083.04,"end":3085.04,"text":"60其實是落在哪個級距增加多少"},{"start":3085.04,"end":3088.04,"text":"這個到時候我們要看這個級距的資料表"},{"start":3088.04,"end":3089.04,"text":"我們才有辦法回答"},{"start":3089.04,"end":3091.04,"text":"我們同不同意滿不滿意這樣的調整"},{"start":3091.04,"end":3093.04,"text":"所以今天在這裡的話"},{"start":3093.04,"end":3095.04,"text":"特別跟您就教的其實就是"},{"start":3095.04,"end":3097.04,"text":"請考慮像我們新北市"},{"start":3097.04,"end":3099.04,"text":"這樣散居的地區"},{"start":3099.04,"end":3101.04,"text":"原住民人口有非常多"},{"start":3101.04,"end":3103.04,"text":"但他是散居"},{"start":3103.04,"end":3104.04,"text":"所以他不是原住民專區"},{"start":3104.04,"end":3106.04,"text":"我們在補助人件站的時候"},{"start":3106.04,"end":3108.04,"text":"我們應該要有相對應"},{"start":3108.04,"end":3110.04,"text":"相對應的方式來做調整"},{"start":3110.04,"end":3112.04,"text":"你要增加項目也好"},{"start":3112.04,"end":3114.04,"text":"你要增加額度也好"},{"start":3114.04,"end":3116.04,"text":"但不管哪一種"},{"start":3116.04,"end":3118.04,"text":"我希望能夠看到對我們來講"},{"start":3118.04,"end":3120.04,"text":"我們需要的部分"},{"start":3120.04,"end":3121.04,"text":"第一是交通"},{"start":3121.04,"end":3123.04,"text":"第二是我們的人口數"},{"start":3123.04,"end":3125.04,"text":"其實相對應是多的"},{"start":3125.04,"end":3127.04,"text":"這樣這兩個部分"},{"start":3127.04,"end":3128.04,"text":"主委你什麼時候可以提出"},{"start":3128.04,"end":3130.04,"text":"副主委什麼時候可以提出來"},{"start":3130.04,"end":3132.04,"text":"我們一個禮拜給委員"},{"start":3132.04,"end":3133.04,"text":"不是給資料喔"},{"start":3133.04,"end":3136.04,"text":"還有你相對應的建議改進方式喔"},{"start":3136.04,"end":3138.04,"text":"現有的資料是"},{"start":3138.04,"end":3140.04,"text":"現有的資料你應該下午就可以傳給我"},{"start":3140.04,"end":3142.04,"text":"不需要一個禮拜"},{"start":3142.04,"end":3143.04,"text":"你一個禮拜我可以同意"},{"start":3143.04,"end":3145.04,"text":"但是是你建議的方案"},{"start":3145.04,"end":3146.04,"text":"怎麼樣的改進"},{"start":3146.04,"end":3148.04,"text":"怎麼樣去精進這件事情"},{"start":3148.04,"end":3149.04,"text":"在原住民地區"},{"start":3149.04,"end":3151.04,"text":"像委員所提點的這些問題"},{"start":3151.04,"end":3153.04,"text":"我們一併來整理"},{"start":3153.04,"end":3154.04,"text":"如何的解決"},{"start":3154.04,"end":3157.04,"text":"一個禮拜之內提出這個改進的方案"},{"start":3157.04,"end":3158.04,"text":"我們來討論這樣"},{"start":3158.04,"end":3159.04,"text":"可以喔"},{"start":3159.04,"end":3160.04,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":3160.04,"end":3161.04,"text":"謝謝副主委"},{"start":3161.04,"end":3162.04,"text":"委員"},{"start":3167.04,"end":3169.04,"text":"我們下一位請許中信委員發言質詢"},{"start":3176.04,"end":3177.04,"text":"主席"},{"start":3177.04,"end":3178.04,"text":"各位同仁"},{"start":3178.04,"end":3180.04,"text":"我們邀請原委會曾主委"},{"start":3185.04,"end":3186.04,"text":"喔喔"},{"start":3186.04,"end":3187.04,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":3187.04,"end":3188.04,"text":"副主委"},{"start":3189.04,"end":3190.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":3190.04,"end":3191.04,"text":"副主委好"},{"start":3191.04,"end":3194.04,"text":"我今天有幾個問題要來請教您喔"},{"start":3194.04,"end":3196.04,"text":"不過我的主軸是這樣"},{"start":3196.04,"end":3198.04,"text":"我如果用翻字"},{"start":3198.04,"end":3199.04,"text":"就沒有不敬"},{"start":3199.04,"end":3201.04,"text":"我們"},{"start":3201.04,"end":3202.04,"text":"到"},{"start":3202.04,"end":3204.04,"text":"國民政府來以後"},{"start":3204.04,"end":3206.04,"text":"佐政"},{"start":3206.04,"end":3211.04,"text":"的評估組都還要到我們新市來認親"},{"start":3211.04,"end":3214.04,"text":"我們都把它叫做法納仁親"},{"start":3214.04,"end":3217.04,"text":"我今天是要來跟你認親"},{"start":3217.04,"end":3218.04,"text":"跟你認親"},{"start":3218.04,"end":3220.04,"text":"第一個問題跟您請教"},{"start":3220.04,"end":3225.04,"text":"我們希拉亞族原住民身份在行政院現在"},{"start":3225.04,"end":3227.04,"text":"的進度如何"},{"start":3227.04,"end":3228.04,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3228.04,"end":3231.04,"text":"今天早上就是希拉亞族證明的記者會"},{"start":3231.04,"end":3234.04,"text":"今天那個院長會公布"},{"start":3234.04,"end":3236.04,"text":"那接下來在8月中旬以後"},{"start":3236.04,"end":3238.04,"text":"我們會開始做身份的登記"},{"start":3238.04,"end":3239.04,"text":"太好了"},{"start":3239.04,"end":3240.04,"text":"我認為希拉亞原則上是"},{"start":3240.04,"end":3242.04,"text":"已經完成了這個"},{"start":3242.04,"end":3244.04,"text":"階段性的一個工作"},{"start":3244.04,"end":3246.04,"text":"後續當然登記還有它的過程"},{"start":3246.04,"end":3247.04,"text":"這個很重要"},{"start":3247.04,"end":3249.04,"text":"我們都已經有做充分的準備"},{"start":3249.04,"end":3250.04,"text":"太好了"},{"start":3250.04,"end":3253.04,"text":"因為剛好這幾天新化國小"},{"start":3253.04,"end":3255.04,"text":"在核定獎學金"},{"start":3255.04,"end":3257.04,"text":"如果有原民身份的"},{"start":3257.04,"end":3259.04,"text":"他們就可以申請獎學金"},{"start":3259.04,"end":3261.04,"text":"所以這個是遲來的正義"},{"start":3261.04,"end":3263.04,"text":"非常的好"},{"start":3263.04,"end":3265.04,"text":"第二個問題"},{"start":3265.04,"end":3267.04,"text":"主委您仔細看喔"},{"start":3267.04,"end":3271.04,"text":"我們希拉亞族在台南五大社"},{"start":3271.04,"end":3272.04,"text":"蕭榮"},{"start":3272.04,"end":3275.04,"text":"木家六灣"},{"start":3275.04,"end":3277.04,"text":"興港 馬豆 大木匠"},{"start":3277.04,"end":3279.04,"text":"大木匠就是新化"},{"start":3279.04,"end":3281.04,"text":"這五色的色名"},{"start":3281.04,"end":3283.04,"text":"你有沒有看到"},{"start":3283.04,"end":3286.04,"text":"興港這兩個字是純漢字"},{"start":3286.04,"end":3287.04,"text":"對"},{"start":3287.04,"end":3289.04,"text":"它跟其他四個不一樣"},{"start":3289.04,"end":3292.04,"text":"其他四個是從平埔嶼"},{"start":3292.04,"end":3293.04,"text":"用漢字寫下來的"},{"start":3293.04,"end":3297.04,"text":"蕭榮 木家六灣 大木匠"},{"start":3297.04,"end":3299.04,"text":"所以只有興港"},{"start":3299.04,"end":3302.04,"text":"為什麼會這樣子"},{"start":3302.04,"end":3304.04,"text":"這個問題很難"},{"start":3304.04,"end":3306.04,"text":"所以不是要來為難您"},{"start":3306.04,"end":3310.04,"text":"各位看到明朝的歷史"},{"start":3310.04,"end":3312.04,"text":"他們認為林鳳"},{"start":3312.04,"end":3315.04,"text":"林鳳就是我們台南的林鳳營"},{"start":3315.04,"end":3317.04,"text":"各位喝牛奶的林鳳營"},{"start":3317.04,"end":3318.04,"text":"林鳳"},{"start":3318.04,"end":3323.04,"text":"他1574年來興港設強米樑"},{"start":3323.04,"end":3328.04,"text":"但是1603年成立的東藩紀"},{"start":3328.04,"end":3332.04,"text":"在記載我們東藩的居地的時候"},{"start":3332.04,"end":3334.04,"text":"他有講到雙溪口"},{"start":3334.04,"end":3338.04,"text":"這個雙溪口很顯然是漢字的地名"},{"start":3338.04,"end":3340.04,"text":"是漢人在那邊住"},{"start":3340.04,"end":3342.04,"text":"這叫雙溪口"},{"start":3342.04,"end":3344.04,"text":"他沒有提到興港"},{"start":3344.04,"end":3347.04,"text":"興港現在就是興市南科地區"},{"start":3347.04,"end":3353.04,"text":"為什麼陳帝沒有提到興港"},{"start":3355.04,"end":3359.04,"text":"因為陳帝寫東藩紀是在興港寫"},{"start":3360.04,"end":3365.04,"text":"而興港兩個漢字"},{"start":3365.04,"end":3369.04,"text":"我個人判斷是日語"},{"start":3369.04,"end":3371.04,"text":"是日語"},{"start":3371.04,"end":3373.04,"text":"興國"},{"start":3373.04,"end":3375.04,"text":"我怎麼講"},{"start":3375.04,"end":3379.04,"text":"因為根據東藩紀的記載"},{"start":3379.04,"end":3381.04,"text":"明家精陌"},{"start":3381.04,"end":3384.04,"text":"歐寇用火槍"},{"start":3384.04,"end":3386.04,"text":"火槍來攻打東藩"},{"start":3386.04,"end":3388.04,"text":"東藩不敵退入山"},{"start":3388.04,"end":3396.04,"text":"所以日本歐寇來打東藩應該沒有撤退"},{"start":3396.04,"end":3398.04,"text":"而留在興市"},{"start":3398.04,"end":3402.04,"text":"所以把當地地名取為興港"},{"start":3402.04,"end":3406.04,"text":"所以興港這個地名在我們明朝的歷史"},{"start":3406.04,"end":3407.04,"text":"很早就出現了"},{"start":3407.04,"end":3409.04,"text":"1574年就有"},{"start":3409.04,"end":3412.04,"text":"所以我推估他"},{"start":3412.04,"end":3417.04,"text":"有日本取名的可能性"},{"start":3417.04,"end":3419.04,"text":"我講這個故事"},{"start":3419.04,"end":3421.04,"text":"就是要讓各位知道"},{"start":3421.04,"end":3425.04,"text":"我們台灣是一個多族群融合出來"},{"start":3425.04,"end":3427.04,"text":"尤其是平地地區"},{"start":3427.04,"end":3429.04,"text":"族群融合出來的"},{"start":3429.04,"end":3433.04,"text":"也有日本血統留在台灣"},{"start":3433.04,"end":3436.04,"text":"也有漢人的血統留在台灣"},{"start":3436.04,"end":3438.04,"text":"當然他們取的老婆"},{"start":3438.04,"end":3441.04,"text":"大部分都是我們的原住民"},{"start":3441.04,"end":3445.04,"text":"這就是我們形塑我們台灣民族認同"},{"start":3445.04,"end":3447.04,"text":"一個很重要的論點"},{"start":3447.04,"end":3450.04,"text":"那我怎麼來證明這個呢"},{"start":3450.04,"end":3454.04,"text":"各位我用兩個台語的俗諺"},{"start":3454.04,"end":3458.04,"text":"一個母親比較好生的體控座"},{"start":3458.04,"end":3461.04,"text":"帶一個母親比較好生的體控座"},{"start":3461.04,"end":3464.04,"text":"副主委您有聽過這個俗諺嗎"},{"start":3464.04,"end":3466.04,"text":"第二個"},{"start":3466.04,"end":3470.04,"text":"提前提供第一母親說"},{"start":3470.04,"end":3473.04,"text":"提前提供第二母親說"},{"start":3473.04,"end":3476.04,"text":"對母親非常尊重"},{"start":3476.04,"end":3479.04,"text":"只可以顧"},{"start":3479.04,"end":3481.04,"text":"這是因為"},{"start":3481.04,"end":3484.04,"text":"當時漢人來都是男生"},{"start":3484.04,"end":3487.04,"text":"都入贅到平埔族家中"},{"start":3487.04,"end":3489.04,"text":"平埔族是母系社會"},{"start":3489.04,"end":3492.04,"text":"繼承人家的家產"},{"start":3492.04,"end":3495.04,"text":"所以帶一個母親比較好生的體控座"},{"start":3495.04,"end":3499.04,"text":"我們台灣人愛母乘母是這個傳統"},{"start":3499.04,"end":3502.04,"text":"提前提供第二母親說"},{"start":3502.04,"end":3506.04,"text":"因為母親也去給他結婚去"},{"start":3506.04,"end":3508.04,"text":"也去旅行那裡"},{"start":3508.04,"end":3512.04,"text":"但是母親的財產再去給我繼承"},{"start":3512.04,"end":3514.04,"text":"所以提前提供第二母親說"},{"start":3514.04,"end":3517.04,"text":"母親回來後很感謝"},{"start":3517.04,"end":3520.04,"text":"因為那時候的財產給我繼承"},{"start":3520.04,"end":3523.04,"text":"這道理就是這樣來的"},{"start":3523.04,"end":3527.04,"text":"所以我在這裡給主委這樣報告"},{"start":3527.04,"end":3532.04,"text":"我們要去看這個西拉雅族跟漢族"},{"start":3532.04,"end":3537.04,"text":"閩南人他的通婚的狀態"},{"start":3537.04,"end":3541.04,"text":"那麼我們仍然有保留一些純的"},{"start":3541.04,"end":3544.04,"text":"平埔族在台南"},{"start":3544.04,"end":3549.04,"text":"包括我們新化的新和社區"},{"start":3549.04,"end":3553.04,"text":"那我們剛才講的五個西拉雅族"},{"start":3553.04,"end":3555.04,"text":"有一個社叫做麻豆社"},{"start":3555.04,"end":3557.04,"text":"現在麻豆地區"},{"start":3557.04,"end":3562.04,"text":"請問副主委麻豆Mata"},{"start":3562.04,"end":3564.04,"text":"它是什麼意思"},{"start":3564.04,"end":3566.04,"text":"Mata"},{"start":3566.04,"end":3569.04,"text":"Mata眼睛"},{"start":3569.04,"end":3570.04,"text":"沒錯"},{"start":3570.04,"end":3575.04,"text":"現在南島族的國家都還是用Mata做眼睛"},{"start":3575.04,"end":3578.04,"text":"跟我們麻豆眼睛是一樣的"},{"start":3578.04,"end":3582.04,"text":"所以表示你看我們西拉雅族"},{"start":3582.04,"end":3587.04,"text":"跟南島語族其實是同源"},{"start":3587.04,"end":3589.04,"text":"其實是同源"},{"start":3589.04,"end":3595.04,"text":"所以我們可以看到台灣跟南島語族的國家之間"},{"start":3595.04,"end":3598.04,"text":"有非常親密的關係"},{"start":3598.04,"end":3603.04,"text":"但是也不否認它跟日本也有關係"},{"start":3603.04,"end":3607.04,"text":"我們在荷蘭1624年來台灣以後"},{"start":3607.04,"end":3609.04,"text":"因為荷蘭人的待遇"},{"start":3609.04,"end":3613.04,"text":"我們新港社有一條船"},{"start":3613.04,"end":3621.04,"text":"載很多新港社人到江戶去告東陽狀"},{"start":3621.04,"end":3622.04,"text":"不是告陽狀而已"},{"start":3622.04,"end":3624.04,"text":"他是告東陽狀"},{"start":3624.04,"end":3631.04,"text":"而江戶幕府是由德川將軍親自來接待"},{"start":3631.04,"end":3636.04,"text":"副主委您知道為什麼要這麼多人"},{"start":3636.04,"end":3639.04,"text":"去跟幕府報告"},{"start":3639.04,"end":3641.04,"text":"要去告東陽狀"},{"start":3641.04,"end":3642.04,"text":"一個人就可以告"},{"start":3642.04,"end":3643.04,"text":"為什麼要這麼多人去"},{"start":3643.04,"end":3645.04,"text":"去江戶不用錢"},{"start":3645.04,"end":3648.04,"text":"去那邊吃住不用錢"},{"start":3648.04,"end":3650.04,"text":"為什麼要那麼多人去"},{"start":3650.04,"end":3653.04,"text":"那表示說新港社有共識"},{"start":3653.04,"end":3657.04,"text":"我們各地的首領我們都同意都來"},{"start":3657.04,"end":3661.04,"text":"所以幕府你出兵攻打荷蘭人"},{"start":3661.04,"end":3663.04,"text":"荷蘭人對我們不好"},{"start":3663.04,"end":3665.04,"text":"我們社有共識"},{"start":3665.04,"end":3667.04,"text":"這麼多人都來了"},{"start":3667.04,"end":3669.04,"text":"這是我的解讀"},{"start":3669.04,"end":3671.04,"text":"所以我們可以看到新港社"},{"start":3671.04,"end":3674.04,"text":"跟日本的關係這麼密切"},{"start":3674.04,"end":3677.04,"text":"所以荷蘭人的文獻記載"},{"start":3677.04,"end":3679.04,"text":"荷蘭人來的時候"},{"start":3679.04,"end":3684.04,"text":"已經有日本人160人的移民區"},{"start":3684.04,"end":3687.04,"text":"而且有領袖"},{"start":3687.04,"end":3690.04,"text":"所以中國說台灣歷史上屬於中國"},{"start":3690.04,"end":3693.04,"text":"那是亂講"},{"start":3693.04,"end":3695.04,"text":"他不是只有這樣亂講而已"},{"start":3695.04,"end":3697.04,"text":"各位看到第七點"},{"start":3697.04,"end":3701.04,"text":"中國最近說八丹群島是他的領土"},{"start":3701.04,"end":3703.04,"text":"他享有主權"},{"start":3703.04,"end":3707.04,"text":"他的根據為何"},{"start":3707.04,"end":3709.04,"text":"他主要是認為說在語言上面"},{"start":3709.04,"end":3711.04,"text":"跟文化跟藍語的達悟主"},{"start":3711.04,"end":3713.04,"text":"有非常多的相似"},{"start":3713.04,"end":3716.04,"text":"甚至是同一個族群的認知"},{"start":3716.04,"end":3718.04,"text":"這樣的認知沒辦法成立"},{"start":3718.04,"end":3720.04,"text":"對沒有錯"},{"start":3720.04,"end":3724.04,"text":"因為到1874年牡丹社事件"},{"start":3724.04,"end":3726.04,"text":"日本人要出兵的時候"},{"start":3726.04,"end":3728.04,"text":"中國清朝還跟他講說"},{"start":3728.04,"end":3730.04,"text":"仿寮以下"},{"start":3730.04,"end":3732.04,"text":"叫化外之地"},{"start":3732.04,"end":3734.04,"text":"狼橋十八社"},{"start":3734.04,"end":3736.04,"text":"那其實他"},{"start":3736.04,"end":3738.04,"text":"史卡羅"},{"start":3738.04,"end":3740.04,"text":"他有一個王叫德基多"},{"start":3740.04,"end":3742.04,"text":"卓紀篤"},{"start":3742.04,"end":3744.04,"text":"德基多"},{"start":3744.04,"end":3746.04,"text":"李先德跟他非常好"},{"start":3746.04,"end":3748.04,"text":"所以我們可以看到"},{"start":3748.04,"end":3750.04,"text":"清朝到1874年"},{"start":3750.04,"end":3752.04,"text":"仍然說"},{"start":3752.04,"end":3754.04,"text":"仿寮以下"},{"start":3754.04,"end":3756.04,"text":"是化外之地"},{"start":3756.04,"end":3758.04,"text":"那藍語也是化外之地"},{"start":3758.04,"end":3760.04,"text":"台東、屏東"},{"start":3760.04,"end":3762.04,"text":"很多是化外之地"},{"start":3762.04,"end":3764.04,"text":"那怎麼可以說八丹群島是屬於中國"},{"start":3764.04,"end":3768.04,"text":"東部大概都是當時為認定在化外之地"},{"start":3768.04,"end":3770.04,"text":"只有少數幾個地方"},{"start":3770.04,"end":3772.04,"text":"台東、花蓮那幾個平地"},{"start":3772.04,"end":3774.04,"text":"那我認為"},{"start":3774.04,"end":3778.04,"text":"那我們可以看到八丹群島"},{"start":3778.04,"end":3780.04,"text":"跟藍語之間的"},{"start":3780.04,"end":3782.04,"text":"航行中斷剛才您報告航行300多年"},{"start":3782.04,"end":3784.04,"text":"中斷"},{"start":3784.04,"end":3786.04,"text":"這中斷的原因"},{"start":3786.04,"end":3788.04,"text":"為何"},{"start":3788.04,"end":3790.04,"text":"航海技術應該更進步"},{"start":3790.04,"end":3792.04,"text":"為什麼會中斷"},{"start":3792.04,"end":3794.04,"text":"我看這些"},{"start":3794.04,"end":3796.04,"text":"文獻大概是提到說當時有一些"},{"start":3796.04,"end":3798.04,"text":"衝突事件"},{"start":3798.04,"end":3800.04,"text":"然後造成彼此之間後來就沒有再"},{"start":3800.04,"end":3802.04,"text":"再同航"},{"start":3802.04,"end":3804.04,"text":"衝突是西班牙人造成"},{"start":3804.04,"end":3806.04,"text":"也就是說西班牙"},{"start":3806.04,"end":3808.04,"text":"控制菲律賓的程度"},{"start":3808.04,"end":3810.04,"text":"已經連八丹群島"},{"start":3810.04,"end":3812.04,"text":"也受到控制"},{"start":3812.04,"end":3814.04,"text":"所以是西班牙人"},{"start":3814.04,"end":3816.04,"text":"控制造成我們"},{"start":3816.04,"end":3818.04,"text":"這兩族之間"},{"start":3818.04,"end":3820.04,"text":"航行沒辦法繼續"},{"start":3820.04,"end":3822.04,"text":"我個人的解讀是這樣"},{"start":3822.04,"end":3824.04,"text":"所以你們這個計畫非常好"},{"start":3824.04,"end":3826.04,"text":"而且我鼓勵你們"},{"start":3826.04,"end":3828.04,"text":"跟南島語族不是只有"},{"start":3828.04,"end":3830.04,"text":"跟八丹群島"},{"start":3830.04,"end":3832.04,"text":"我們跟斐濟"},{"start":3832.04,"end":3834.04,"text":"甚至跟紐西蘭"},{"start":3836.04,"end":3838.04,"text":"紐西蘭的戰舞"},{"start":3838.04,"end":3840.04,"text":"紐西蘭的戰舞"},{"start":3840.04,"end":3842.04,"text":"跟我們原住民"},{"start":3842.04,"end":3844.04,"text":"那個舞蹈非常像"},{"start":3844.04,"end":3846.04,"text":"所以那個很多文化"},{"start":3846.04,"end":3848.04,"text":"上的相同性"},{"start":3848.04,"end":3850.04,"text":"我們在外交上"},{"start":3850.04,"end":3852.04,"text":"要利用這一點"},{"start":3852.04,"end":3854.04,"text":"所以我今天來跟您認清"},{"start":3854.04,"end":3856.04,"text":"是有目的的"},{"start":3856.04,"end":3858.04,"text":"也就是說我們要跟"},{"start":3858.04,"end":3860.04,"text":"紐西蘭"},{"start":3860.04,"end":3862.04,"text":"還有甚至火地島"},{"start":3862.04,"end":3864.04,"text":"阿根廷的火地島"},{"start":3864.04,"end":3866.04,"text":"還有斐濟"},{"start":3866.04,"end":3868.04,"text":"等這些國家"},{"start":3868.04,"end":3870.04,"text":"改善外交關係"},{"start":3870.04,"end":3872.04,"text":"有賴我們的"},{"start":3872.04,"end":3874.04,"text":"原住民出力"},{"start":3874.04,"end":3876.04,"text":"要用這個關係"},{"start":3876.04,"end":3878.04,"text":"因為同遠"},{"start":3878.04,"end":3880.04,"text":"你們現在怎麼不承認台灣"},{"start":3880.04,"end":3882.04,"text":"我們現在台灣跟你們的關係"},{"start":3882.04,"end":3884.04,"text":"應該可以更緊密"},{"start":3884.04,"end":3886.04,"text":"而不是只有"},{"start":3886.04,"end":3888.04,"text":"這個Parao"},{"start":3888.04,"end":3890.04,"text":"應該還有更多的國家"},{"start":3890.04,"end":3892.04,"text":"我們可以藉由原住民跟他們的關係"},{"start":3892.04,"end":3894.04,"text":"來改善"},{"start":3894.04,"end":3896.04,"text":"我們現在的外交關係"},{"start":3896.04,"end":3898.04,"text":"包括斐濟啦"},{"start":3898.04,"end":3900.04,"text":"紐西蘭啦"},{"start":3900.04,"end":3902.04,"text":"甚至夏威夷也是"},{"start":3902.04,"end":3904.04,"text":"所以拜託"},{"start":3904.04,"end":3906.04,"text":"副主委往這個方向"},{"start":3906.04,"end":3908.04,"text":"協助我們的外交部"},{"start":3908.04,"end":3910.04,"text":"跟我們報告事實上會裡面"},{"start":3910.04,"end":3912.04,"text":"針對這個南島語族的這個文化交流"},{"start":3912.04,"end":3914.04,"text":"都已經進行了非常多年"},{"start":3914.04,"end":3916.04,"text":"可是你剛剛講的紐西蘭"},{"start":3916.04,"end":3918.04,"text":"那些事實上我們有相關的平台"},{"start":3918.04,"end":3920.04,"text":"在做不管是經貿文化交流"},{"start":3920.04,"end":3922.04,"text":"還有一些博物館各方面"},{"start":3922.04,"end":3924.04,"text":"我們都有在做這種"},{"start":3924.04,"end":3926.04,"text":"所謂原住民族的文化交流"},{"start":3926.04,"end":3928.04,"text":"在外交上會有一些注意"},{"start":3928.04,"end":3930.04,"text":"不只有注意所以我今天來拜託您"},{"start":3930.04,"end":3932.04,"text":"就是要原住民出兵"},{"start":3932.04,"end":3934.04,"text":"要原住民出力"},{"start":3934.04,"end":3936.04,"text":"來協助我們現在"},{"start":3936.04,"end":3938.04,"text":"這個困頓的外交"},{"start":3938.04,"end":3940.04,"text":"要協助"},{"start":3940.04,"end":3942.04,"text":"一個最簡單的"},{"start":3942.04,"end":3944.04,"text":"我們看到"},{"start":3944.04,"end":3946.04,"text":"東家、諾魯他們上次來"},{"start":3946.04,"end":3948.04,"text":"參加我們的海洋論壇"},{"start":3948.04,"end":3950.04,"text":"我兩天都在那邊學習"},{"start":3950.04,"end":3952.04,"text":"他們來都講英文"},{"start":3952.04,"end":3954.04,"text":"我們這邊當然也講英文"},{"start":3954.04,"end":3956.04,"text":"我內心在想"},{"start":3956.04,"end":3958.04,"text":"如果能夠講他們的"},{"start":3958.04,"end":3960.04,"text":"原住民母語"},{"start":3960.04,"end":3962.04,"text":"那多好"},{"start":3962.04,"end":3964.04,"text":"有沒有可能我們培養"},{"start":3964.04,"end":3966.04,"text":"我們原住民的外交人才"},{"start":3966.04,"end":3968.04,"text":"其實我們常年都在做"},{"start":3968.04,"end":3970.04,"text":"我們每一年都有國際人才培訓"},{"start":3970.04,"end":3972.04,"text":"尤其南島的部分也有一些"},{"start":3972.04,"end":3974.04,"text":"我們原住民的族人來參與"},{"start":3974.04,"end":3976.04,"text":"甚至國外的"},{"start":3976.04,"end":3978.04,"text":"南島族裔族的這些在國內"},{"start":3978.04,"end":3980.04,"text":"在我們國家族群的都有請他們"},{"start":3980.04,"end":3982.04,"text":"一起來參與國際人才的培訓"},{"start":3982.04,"end":3984.04,"text":"外交部有沒有把它入籍為"},{"start":3984.04,"end":3986.04,"text":"外交部的官員"},{"start":3986.04,"end":3988.04,"text":"這個還要再繼續努力"},{"start":3988.04,"end":3990.04,"text":"這個我會督促他"},{"start":3990.04,"end":3992.04,"text":"今天我們一定要培養這方面的人才"},{"start":3992.04,"end":3994.04,"text":"協助我們"},{"start":3994.04,"end":3996.04,"text":"拓產"},{"start":3996.04,"end":3998.04,"text":"對南島為之國家的外交"},{"start":3998.04,"end":4000.04,"text":"非常謝謝吳主委的回答"},{"start":4000.04,"end":4002.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4002.04,"end":4004.04,"text":"謝謝委員的指導"},{"start":4008.04,"end":4010.04,"text":"我們下一位請王美慧委員發言質詢"},{"start":4018.04,"end":4020.04,"text":"主席"},{"start":4020.04,"end":4022.04,"text":"主委"},{"start":4026.04,"end":4028.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":4028.04,"end":4030.04,"text":"主委早上"},{"start":4030.04,"end":4032.04,"text":"主委本來先向你探討一個"},{"start":4032.04,"end":4034.04,"text":"我們七月初八"},{"start":4034.04,"end":4036.04,"text":"我們的阿美族"},{"start":4036.04,"end":4038.04,"text":"我們的活動的時候"},{"start":4038.04,"end":4040.04,"text":"阿美族的祭福來臨"},{"start":4040.04,"end":4042.04,"text":"都會配一支刀"},{"start":4042.04,"end":4044.04,"text":"在這個過程當中"},{"start":4044.04,"end":4046.04,"text":"我們的金正恩"},{"start":4046.04,"end":4048.04,"text":"也有說要改進"},{"start":4048.04,"end":4050.04,"text":"如果是最好的的時候"},{"start":4050.04,"end":4052.04,"text":"主要來說"},{"start":4052.04,"end":4054.04,"text":"阿美族整個族裡面"},{"start":4054.04,"end":4056.04,"text":"他會帶刀"},{"start":4056.04,"end":4058.04,"text":"在這個帶刀的當中"},{"start":4058.04,"end":4060.04,"text":"跟建策五倍很深的"},{"start":4060.04,"end":4062.04,"text":"覺得他是要去元家"},{"start":4062.04,"end":4064.04,"text":"帶刀"},{"start":4064.04,"end":4066.04,"text":"但是在阿美族來說"},{"start":4066.04,"end":4068.04,"text":"他的祭福裡面"},{"start":4068.04,"end":4070.04,"text":"就是有一支刀"},{"start":4070.04,"end":4072.04,"text":"在這個過程當中"},{"start":4072.04,"end":4074.04,"text":"阿美族"},{"start":4074.04,"end":4076.04,"text":"關主委的人很生氣"},{"start":4076.04,"end":4078.04,"text":"他會覺得"},{"start":4078.04,"end":4080.04,"text":"你們不夠尊重他們"},{"start":4080.04,"end":4082.04,"text":"在這個過程當中"},{"start":4082.04,"end":4084.04,"text":"副主委你是不是"},{"start":4084.04,"end":4086.04,"text":"可以來解釋"},{"start":4086.04,"end":4088.04,"text":"那天的發生"},{"start":4088.04,"end":4090.04,"text":"跟未來你要怎麼做"},{"start":4090.04,"end":4092.04,"text":"來副主委你會怎麼做"},{"start":4092.04,"end":4094.04,"text":"我想那天發生這個事情"},{"start":4094.04,"end":4096.04,"text":"是蠻遺憾的"},{"start":4096.04,"end":4098.04,"text":"因為在一個原住民的"},{"start":4098.04,"end":4100.04,"text":"這個豐年"},{"start":4100.04,"end":4102.04,"text":"豐年期來講原則上"},{"start":4102.04,"end":4104.04,"text":"整套服裝的配備那天看起來是非常完整"},{"start":4104.04,"end":4106.04,"text":"那個禮刀配備事實上是一個"},{"start":4106.04,"end":4108.04,"text":"標準的配備"},{"start":4108.04,"end":4110.04,"text":"這不是只有阿美族各族群"},{"start":4110.04,"end":4112.04,"text":"可能都有這樣的現象"},{"start":4112.04,"end":4114.04,"text":"但是發生這樣的事情"},{"start":4114.04,"end":4116.04,"text":"我想這個還是在"},{"start":4116.04,"end":4118.04,"text":"我們在政策上這個全民研究"},{"start":4118.04,"end":4120.04,"text":"還要加強就是讓各個族群"},{"start":4120.04,"end":4122.04,"text":"甚至我們的行政機關"},{"start":4122.04,"end":4124.04,"text":"要了解原住民族他們本身的文化"},{"start":4124.04,"end":4126.04,"text":"俯視、扶藤"},{"start":4126.04,"end":4128.04,"text":"各方面的運用都要尊重"},{"start":4128.04,"end":4130.04,"text":"我想這個部分我們會在"},{"start":4130.04,"end":4132.04,"text":"跟相關的單位在"},{"start":4132.04,"end":4134.04,"text":"持續的再來宣導"},{"start":4134.04,"end":4136.04,"text":"因為在這個過程中"},{"start":4136.04,"end":4138.04,"text":"有的人不知道說"},{"start":4138.04,"end":4140.04,"text":"阿美族會做的福利"},{"start":4140.04,"end":4142.04,"text":"裡面有一支刀"},{"start":4142.04,"end":4144.04,"text":"到現在看到說"},{"start":4144.04,"end":4146.04,"text":"到現在怎麼會換到"},{"start":4146.04,"end":4148.04,"text":"還有有刀"},{"start":4148.04,"end":4150.04,"text":"到現在也會怕"},{"start":4150.04,"end":4152.04,"text":"這樣走刀會非常危險"},{"start":4152.04,"end":4154.04,"text":"所以兩方面"},{"start":4154.04,"end":4156.04,"text":"五費如親"},{"start":4156.04,"end":4158.04,"text":"不是像副主委說的"},{"start":4158.04,"end":4160.04,"text":"我們需要什麼"},{"start":4160.04,"end":4162.04,"text":"是我們應該在"},{"start":4162.04,"end":4164.04,"text":"哪一種哪一種"},{"start":4164.04,"end":4166.04,"text":"有帶刀子"},{"start":4166.04,"end":4168.04,"text":"或是帶什麼東西的時候"},{"start":4168.04,"end":4170.04,"text":"要讓行政人員"},{"start":4170.04,"end":4172.04,"text":"像中委"},{"start":4172.04,"end":4174.04,"text":"有實力相"},{"start":4174.04,"end":4176.04,"text":"也知道說"},{"start":4176.04,"end":4178.04,"text":"他的刀子的配備"},{"start":4178.04,"end":4180.04,"text":"是他本身就有了"},{"start":4180.04,"end":4182.04,"text":"不是帶進來"},{"start":4182.04,"end":4184.04,"text":"換掉"},{"start":4184.04,"end":4186.04,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4186.04,"end":4188.04,"text":"那個配刀其實對原住民來講"},{"start":4188.04,"end":4190.04,"text":"是生活上所必須用的工具"},{"start":4190.04,"end":4192.04,"text":"那事實上在這個"},{"start":4192.04,"end":4194.04,"text":"槍砲管制條例那個"},{"start":4194.04,"end":4196.04,"text":"我們原住民的這個配刀"},{"start":4196.04,"end":4198.04,"text":"並不是管制的這個"},{"start":4198.04,"end":4200.04,"text":"種類"},{"start":4200.04,"end":4202.04,"text":"不是管制"},{"start":4202.04,"end":4204.04,"text":"但是在警察來說"},{"start":4204.04,"end":4206.04,"text":"他會覺得這個刀子"},{"start":4206.04,"end":4208.04,"text":"來過程就是不對"},{"start":4208.04,"end":4210.04,"text":"還會費用"},{"start":4210.04,"end":4212.04,"text":"他不知道我們幾個族"},{"start":4212.04,"end":4214.04,"text":"都會配備"},{"start":4214.04,"end":4216.04,"text":"這支刀的存在"},{"start":4216.04,"end":4218.04,"text":"所以副主委本身"},{"start":4218.04,"end":4220.04,"text":"自己探討就是說"},{"start":4220.04,"end":4222.04,"text":"未來不是說人來人去檢查"},{"start":4222.04,"end":4224.04,"text":"跟我們跟人家說"},{"start":4224.04,"end":4226.04,"text":"跟我們這個新聞要"},{"start":4226.04,"end":4228.04,"text":"找到的配備"},{"start":4228.04,"end":4230.04,"text":"你們要先去"},{"start":4230.04,"end":4232.04,"text":"來我們說我們有幾種幾種幾種"},{"start":4232.04,"end":4234.04,"text":"像有時候這個配刀"},{"start":4234.04,"end":4236.04,"text":"是一個很慎重的一個"},{"start":4236.04,"end":4238.04,"text":"一個理解啦"},{"start":4238.04,"end":4240.04,"text":"就是他要過過配刀表示你這個人"},{"start":4240.04,"end":4242.04,"text":"已經成長可以保護部落"},{"start":4242.04,"end":4244.04,"text":"我想他在文化上有不同的一個含義"},{"start":4244.04,"end":4246.04,"text":"所以這部分是需要大家多去理解"},{"start":4246.04,"end":4248.04,"text":"要不然以後這樣的事情"},{"start":4248.04,"end":4250.04,"text":"我覺得還會發生"},{"start":4250.04,"end":4252.04,"text":"對對對"},{"start":4252.04,"end":4254.04,"text":"副主委就是這個最重點"},{"start":4254.04,"end":4256.04,"text":"你如果沒講清楚"},{"start":4256.04,"end":4258.04,"text":"沒給了解的時候"},{"start":4258.04,"end":4260.04,"text":"大家會覺得說"},{"start":4260.04,"end":4262.04,"text":"他這個要怎麼做"},{"start":4262.04,"end":4264.04,"text":"要怎麼換機也做"},{"start":4264.04,"end":4266.04,"text":"就是要讓人了解"},{"start":4266.04,"end":4268.04,"text":"還有給人一個準中"},{"start":4268.04,"end":4270.04,"text":"因為這個過程中"},{"start":4270.04,"end":4272.04,"text":"跟你知道"},{"start":4272.04,"end":4274.04,"text":"現在的經濟學者"},{"start":4274.04,"end":4276.04,"text":"怎麼說話"},{"start":4276.04,"end":4278.04,"text":"比較好學"},{"start":4278.04,"end":4280.04,"text":"還是不知道"},{"start":4280.04,"end":4282.04,"text":"不然會上課不然會做什麼"},{"start":4282.04,"end":4284.04,"text":"一樣後來又回到"},{"start":4284.04,"end":4286.04,"text":"又一樣帶一支"},{"start":4286.04,"end":4288.04,"text":"電話在那裡"},{"start":4288.04,"end":4290.04,"text":"經濟學者還是會來盤查"},{"start":4290.04,"end":4292.04,"text":"我們主動跟他們聯絡看看"},{"start":4292.04,"end":4294.04,"text":"這方面全民研究的部分"},{"start":4294.04,"end":4296.04,"text":"是不是有需要會裡面有一些"},{"start":4296.04,"end":4298.04,"text":"專家學者來"},{"start":4298.04,"end":4300.04,"text":"做這方面的這個溝通"},{"start":4300.04,"end":4302.04,"text":"副主委"},{"start":4302.04,"end":4304.04,"text":"我們不是被動的"},{"start":4304.04,"end":4306.04,"text":"我們是要先去人家說"},{"start":4306.04,"end":4308.04,"text":"不是發生事情"},{"start":4308.04,"end":4310.04,"text":"跟我們在國際新聞都要知道"},{"start":4310.04,"end":4312.04,"text":"這樣也不好"},{"start":4312.04,"end":4314.04,"text":"大家會互相尊重"},{"start":4314.04,"end":4316.04,"text":"這是最重要的"},{"start":4316.04,"end":4318.04,"text":"來副主委"},{"start":4318.04,"end":4320.04,"text":"我會把你講到一個"},{"start":4320.04,"end":4322.04,"text":"資訊傳播的問題"},{"start":4322.04,"end":4324.04,"text":"在1800年"},{"start":4324.04,"end":4326.04,"text":"你有說這個"},{"start":4326.04,"end":4328.04,"text":"傳播裡面有20個"},{"start":4328.04,"end":4330.04,"text":"20個"},{"start":4330.04,"end":4332.04,"text":"但是實在"},{"start":4332.04,"end":4334.04,"text":"連一天還做得好"},{"start":4334.04,"end":4336.04,"text":"到無尊位置"},{"start":4336.04,"end":4338.04,"text":"到有30個"},{"start":4338.04,"end":4340.04,"text":"這是什麼原因你是不是可以說"},{"start":4340.04,"end":4342.04,"text":"我們那個資訊"},{"start":4342.04,"end":4344.04,"text":"傳播這個建置這個基地台建置"},{"start":4344.04,"end":4346.04,"text":"我們計畫是要37個"},{"start":4346.04,"end":4348.04,"text":"已經完成了"},{"start":4348.04,"end":4350.04,"text":"32個"},{"start":4350.04,"end":4352.04,"text":"已經有執照了"},{"start":4352.04,"end":4354.04,"text":"另外5個部分事實上是有一些"},{"start":4354.04,"end":4356.04,"text":"環境地形地貌的問題"},{"start":4356.04,"end":4358.04,"text":"還有一些土地管制"},{"start":4358.04,"end":4360.04,"text":"所以沒有辦法如期的來完成"},{"start":4360.04,"end":4362.04,"text":"這個部分事實上我們也在"},{"start":4362.04,"end":4364.04,"text":"想其他的方式是不是跟在地的"},{"start":4364.04,"end":4366.04,"text":"廣播業者合作"},{"start":4366.04,"end":4368.04,"text":"甚至是租用或是配合他們所有"},{"start":4368.04,"end":4370.04,"text":"既有的設施"},{"start":4370.04,"end":4372.04,"text":"來一併把覆蓋力再提升"},{"start":4372.04,"end":4374.04,"text":"所以後續相關工程當然我們盡可能"},{"start":4374.04,"end":4376.04,"text":"克服來完成"},{"start":4376.04,"end":4378.04,"text":"如果不行我們就會朝這個方向"},{"start":4378.04,"end":4380.04,"text":"或者是重新再來去研議看用什麼方式"},{"start":4380.04,"end":4382.04,"text":"來處理後面沒有辦法"},{"start":4382.04,"end":4384.04,"text":"達成的目標"},{"start":4384.04,"end":4386.04,"text":"對於我們人民的所在"},{"start":4386.04,"end":4388.04,"text":"他們的傳播"},{"start":4388.04,"end":4390.04,"text":"是對他們來說非常重要"},{"start":4390.04,"end":4392.04,"text":"所以因為"},{"start":4392.04,"end":4394.04,"text":"土地沉船下來"},{"start":4394.04,"end":4396.04,"text":"還有一些跟"},{"start":4396.04,"end":4398.04,"text":"監管的所在"},{"start":4398.04,"end":4400.04,"text":"他們也是靠"},{"start":4400.04,"end":4402.04,"text":"傳播的聽訊息"},{"start":4402.04,"end":4404.04,"text":"所以在這個"},{"start":4404.04,"end":4406.04,"text":"過程當中本身會覺得"},{"start":4406.04,"end":4408.04,"text":"是怎樣"},{"start":4408.04,"end":4410.04,"text":"我們還"},{"start":4410.04,"end":4412.04,"text":"目標37個"},{"start":4412.04,"end":4414.04,"text":"37個會動中"},{"start":4414.04,"end":4416.04,"text":"會動明天還會動"},{"start":4416.04,"end":4418.04,"text":"做到好到不成"},{"start":4418.04,"end":4420.04,"text":"幾個"},{"start":4420.04,"end":4422.04,"text":"32個"},{"start":4422.04,"end":4424.04,"text":"剩下的要怎麼處理"},{"start":4424.04,"end":4426.04,"text":"所以我們現在針對"},{"start":4426.04,"end":4428.04,"text":"那個5個還沒有辦法完成"},{"start":4428.04,"end":4430.04,"text":"的我們另外有開一些"},{"start":4430.04,"end":4432.04,"text":"工程的匯報甚至"},{"start":4432.04,"end":4434.04,"text":"是不是有一些在軟體上面"},{"start":4434.04,"end":4436.04,"text":"要再重新招標"},{"start":4436.04,"end":4438.04,"text":"那我們都在做一些處理"},{"start":4438.04,"end":4440.04,"text":"也希望藉助"},{"start":4440.04,"end":4442.04,"text":"既有的設施比如說有一些地方"},{"start":4442.04,"end":4444.04,"text":"在地已經有那些發射台"},{"start":4444.04,"end":4446.04,"text":"或是說有他們的一些我們可以跟他"},{"start":4446.04,"end":4448.04,"text":"合作不要自己再去"},{"start":4448.04,"end":4450.04,"text":"見這件事情看能不能"},{"start":4450.04,"end":4452.04,"text":"先用這種比較能夠達成目標"},{"start":4452.04,"end":4454.04,"text":"的方式來促成這個涵蓋率能夠"},{"start":4454.04,"end":4456.04,"text":"達到百分之百因為資訊的傳達"},{"start":4456.04,"end":4458.04,"text":"非常重要你如果有天災"},{"start":4458.04,"end":4460.04,"text":"你要通知就是有百分之二十"},{"start":4460.04,"end":4462.04,"text":"的人收不到這個訊息"},{"start":4462.04,"end":4464.04,"text":"我想這個事我們要趕快"},{"start":4464.04,"end":4466.04,"text":"解決的問題"},{"start":4466.04,"end":4468.04,"text":"所以說吳主委本身跟你說"},{"start":4468.04,"end":4470.04,"text":"有時候我親手來我講的說"},{"start":4470.04,"end":4472.04,"text":"有的都沒辦法接到"},{"start":4472.04,"end":4474.04,"text":"發生什麼事情"},{"start":4474.04,"end":4476.04,"text":"他也沒辦法接到"},{"start":4476.04,"end":4478.04,"text":"更何況你們全個"},{"start":4478.04,"end":4480.04,"text":"的愛心你們要去突破"},{"start":4480.04,"end":4482.04,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4482.04,"end":4484.04,"text":"因為我覺得這對於"},{"start":4484.04,"end":4486.04,"text":"關主民來說非常重要"},{"start":4486.04,"end":4488.04,"text":"因為他們都住在"},{"start":4488.04,"end":4490.04,"text":"那麼山的嘛海海"},{"start":4490.04,"end":4492.04,"text":"所以說這對他們來說"},{"start":4492.04,"end":4494.04,"text":"非常重要"},{"start":4494.04,"end":4496.04,"text":"所以在這個過程我們的"},{"start":4496.04,"end":4498.04,"text":"關主民不管代理組"},{"start":4498.04,"end":4500.04,"text":"不管他現在在做什麼"},{"start":4500.04,"end":4502.04,"text":"最重要我們的傳播"},{"start":4502.04,"end":4504.04,"text":"一定要到位"},{"start":4504.04,"end":4506.04,"text":"不是在說你看"},{"start":4506.04,"end":4508.04,"text":"一般空氣力到現在"},{"start":4508.04,"end":4510.04,"text":"吳主委要加油"},{"start":4510.04,"end":4512.04,"text":"謝謝吳主委"},{"start":4512.04,"end":4514.04,"text":"多謝多謝"},{"start":4526.04,"end":4528.04,"text":"好"},{"start":4528.04,"end":4530.04,"text":"謝謝主席請"},{"start":4530.04,"end":4532.04,"text":"副主委"},{"start":4534.04,"end":4536.04,"text":"好副主委好"},{"start":4536.04,"end":4538.04,"text":"先恭喜一下"},{"start":4538.04,"end":4540.04,"text":"今天早上這個希臘亞族的"},{"start":4540.04,"end":4542.04,"text":"合訂的典禮"},{"start":4542.04,"end":4544.04,"text":"對要跟族人說一聲"},{"start":4544.04,"end":4546.04,"text":"恭喜這個正名之路非常的"},{"start":4546.04,"end":4548.04,"text":"漫長將近三十年"},{"start":4548.04,"end":4550.04,"text":"十幾年的官司甚至走到了"},{"start":4550.04,"end":4552.04,"text":"憲法法庭終於等到了"},{"start":4552.04,"end":4554.04,"text":"這一天法庭"},{"start":4554.04,"end":4556.04,"text":"終於等到了這一天"},{"start":4556.04,"end":4558.04,"text":"非常的不容易"},{"start":4558.04,"end":4560.04,"text":"是的那我等一下"},{"start":4560.04,"end":4562.04,"text":"如果來得及我也希望可以到"},{"start":4562.04,"end":4564.04,"text":"現場給大家祝福"},{"start":4564.04,"end":4566.04,"text":"那我必須要說這個憲法法庭其實"},{"start":4566.04,"end":4568.04,"text":"二零二年判決之後"},{"start":4568.04,"end":4570.04,"text":"那立法到了前十天"},{"start":4570.04,"end":4572.04,"text":"終於立好了"},{"start":4572.04,"end":4574.04,"text":"那希臘亞族這個公告"},{"start":4574.04,"end":4576.04,"text":"三月八號期滿"},{"start":4576.04,"end":4578.04,"text":"那原民會本來是承諾說"},{"start":4578.04,"end":4580.04,"text":"兩個月可以抱怨但是"},{"start":4580.04,"end":4582.04,"text":"還是拖到了今天"},{"start":4582.04,"end":4584.04,"text":"說到但是"},{"start":4584.04,"end":4586.04,"text":"還是終於走到了今天"},{"start":4586.04,"end":4588.04,"text":"那我第一個要問的就是"},{"start":4588.04,"end":4590.04,"text":"那什麼時候這些族人"},{"start":4590.04,"end":4592.04,"text":"可以去到護政事務所來登記"},{"start":4592.04,"end":4594.04,"text":"取得他們的身份"},{"start":4594.04,"end":4596.04,"text":"我們原則上目前我們的"},{"start":4596.04,"end":4598.04,"text":"計畫規劃是"},{"start":4598.04,"end":4600.04,"text":"在八月十三號以後就可以"},{"start":4600.04,"end":4602.04,"text":"八月十三號以後"},{"start":4602.04,"end":4604.04,"text":"但是我們後來再次的協調發現到"},{"start":4604.04,"end":4606.04,"text":"可能還有些地方"},{"start":4606.04,"end":4608.04,"text":"還要再加強"},{"start":4608.04,"end":4610.04,"text":"所以我們可能會在八月中旬"},{"start":4610.04,"end":4612.04,"text":"八月十三號之後他們走進"},{"start":4612.04,"end":4614.04,"text":"護政事務所就可以順利的進行"},{"start":4614.04,"end":4616.04,"text":"我們對外公布都是八月中旬"},{"start":4616.04,"end":4618.04,"text":"我是在這邊跟委員講"},{"start":4618.04,"end":4620.04,"text":"對所以我會希望"},{"start":4620.04,"end":4622.04,"text":"就是要給族人一個明確的時間"},{"start":4622.04,"end":4624.04,"text":"讓他們真的走進"},{"start":4624.04,"end":4626.04,"text":"護政事務所的時候是可以"},{"start":4626.04,"end":4628.04,"text":"順利的辦理的這是第一個"},{"start":4628.04,"end":4630.04,"text":"再來第二個除了希臘"},{"start":4630.04,"end":4632.04,"text":"亞族之外其他像我們高雄"},{"start":4632.04,"end":4634.04,"text":"還有大武龍族"},{"start":4634.04,"end":4636.04,"text":"那就在我們的甲仙山林"},{"start":4636.04,"end":4638.04,"text":"我不知道說其他的八族目前的"},{"start":4638.04,"end":4640.04,"text":"進度走到什麼階段"},{"start":4640.04,"end":4642.04,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":4642.04,"end":4644.04,"text":"現在的相關"},{"start":4644.04,"end":4646.04,"text":"申請像道卡斯"},{"start":4646.04,"end":4648.04,"text":"他是民主認定的"},{"start":4648.04,"end":4650.04,"text":"申請他目前是"},{"start":4650.04,"end":4652.04,"text":"已經在我們要開那個"},{"start":4652.04,"end":4654.04,"text":"審議委員會了那像"},{"start":4654.04,"end":4656.04,"text":"大武龍好像目前"},{"start":4656.04,"end":4658.04,"text":"是已經也提出申請了"},{"start":4658.04,"end":4660.04,"text":"是我們目前"},{"start":4660.04,"end":4662.04,"text":"都還要再進入後續的一些"},{"start":4662.04,"end":4664.04,"text":"一些調查還有他們要提出"},{"start":4664.04,"end":4666.04,"text":"他們相關的一些草案就是"},{"start":4666.04,"end":4668.04,"text":"身份認定的這個草案要來跟我們審議"},{"start":4668.04,"end":4670.04,"text":"這個部分我們都還在進"},{"start":4670.04,"end":4672.04,"text":"另外有一些族群已經申請了這些"},{"start":4672.04,"end":4674.04,"text":"其實已經申請的有一個"},{"start":4674.04,"end":4676.04,"text":"我們都會做對我們都會"},{"start":4676.04,"end":4678.04,"text":"剛剛講的就是像我們高雄的"},{"start":4678.04,"end":4680.04,"text":"大武龍族不知道說你們現在審議"},{"start":4680.04,"end":4682.04,"text":"的進度到哪裡其實都已經"},{"start":4682.04,"end":4684.04,"text":"申請了"},{"start":4684.04,"end":4686.04,"text":"認定申請他申請了那我們"},{"start":4686.04,"end":4688.04,"text":"的委員的要件公告目前他們在"},{"start":4688.04,"end":4690.04,"text":"進行中大武龍的部分"},{"start":4690.04,"end":4692.04,"text":"對阿所以我是想問"},{"start":4692.04,"end":4694.04,"text":"大概的進度"},{"start":4694.04,"end":4696.04,"text":"如果按照希拉亞將軍他"},{"start":4696.04,"end":4698.04,"text":"如果他的那個要件公告這個"},{"start":4698.04,"end":4700.04,"text":"部分能夠很快完成的話我想"},{"start":4700.04,"end":4702.04,"text":"應該在半年內"},{"start":4702.04,"end":4704.04,"text":"半年內可以"},{"start":4704.04,"end":4706.04,"text":"但是那個還是要送到院裡面去報"},{"start":4706.04,"end":4708.04,"text":"是所以我在這邊希望的是"},{"start":4708.04,"end":4710.04,"text":"幫族員問一下我們的進度"},{"start":4710.04,"end":4712.04,"text":"是不是可以順利那可不可以"},{"start":4712.04,"end":4714.04,"text":"你說的半年內"},{"start":4714.04,"end":4716.04,"text":"就來完成"},{"start":4716.04,"end":4718.04,"text":"這個也要他們要配合喔"},{"start":4718.04,"end":4720.04,"text":"不是說我們因為這個族群的認定"},{"start":4720.04,"end":4722.04,"text":"跟申請是他們自己這個族群"},{"start":4722.04,"end":4724.04,"text":"族群的團體他們要做一些相關的準備"},{"start":4724.04,"end":4726.04,"text":"所以我在這邊也是派一堆副主委"},{"start":4726.04,"end":4728.04,"text":"可以盡量的協助族人"},{"start":4728.04,"end":4730.04,"text":"可以盡快的拿到這樣子的"},{"start":4730.04,"end":4732.04,"text":"審議的結果"},{"start":4732.04,"end":4734.04,"text":"好再來第三件事情要問的是"},{"start":4734.04,"end":4736.04,"text":"因為接下來最直接的"},{"start":4736.04,"end":4738.04,"text":"就是他們的政治參與"},{"start":4738.04,"end":4740.04,"text":"還有衛生醫療的"},{"start":4740.04,"end":4742.04,"text":"相關等等的權利"},{"start":4742.04,"end":4744.04,"text":"那所以我在這邊想問的是"},{"start":4744.04,"end":4746.04,"text":"相關的權利的盤點"},{"start":4746.04,"end":4748.04,"text":"還有法律你們有沒有進行了"},{"start":4748.04,"end":4750.04,"text":"包括說"},{"start":4750.04,"end":4752.04,"text":"選舉權還是說他們"},{"start":4752.04,"end":4754.04,"text":"接下來的升學"},{"start":4754.04,"end":4756.04,"text":"工作權的保障健保的補助"},{"start":4756.04,"end":4758.04,"text":"長照的補助等等"},{"start":4758.04,"end":4760.04,"text":"相關的權利你們"},{"start":4760.04,"end":4762.04,"text":"盤點過了嗎"},{"start":4762.04,"end":4764.04,"text":"跟委員報告這個在"},{"start":4764.04,"end":4766.04,"text":"今年的5月19號我們有召開了"},{"start":4766.04,"end":4768.04,"text":"跨部會的這個會議"},{"start":4768.04,"end":4770.04,"text":"就是針對這個平埔族群"},{"start":4770.04,"end":4772.04,"text":"他們的未來在三年內要制定的"},{"start":4772.04,"end":4774.04,"text":"相關法律的權益的部分來做盤點"},{"start":4774.04,"end":4776.04,"text":"那我們已經"},{"start":4776.04,"end":4778.04,"text":"盤點出來有118種法規"},{"start":4778.04,"end":4780.04,"text":"命令需要做調整"},{"start":4780.04,"end":4782.04,"text":"那也發文請他們在9月30號以前"},{"start":4782.04,"end":4784.04,"text":"把他們所盤整出來"},{"start":4784.04,"end":4786.04,"text":"需要調整的文字內容"},{"start":4786.04,"end":4788.04,"text":"報到我們會裡面"},{"start":4788.04,"end":4790.04,"text":"我們再來看是法規命令"},{"start":4790.04,"end":4792.04,"text":"是行政規則是法律面的"},{"start":4792.04,"end":4794.04,"text":"應該怎麼處理那時候會再進一步的"},{"start":4794.04,"end":4796.04,"text":"做一個處理"},{"start":4796.04,"end":4798.04,"text":"所以是9月30號"},{"start":4798.04,"end":4800.04,"text":"9月30號請他們回報"},{"start":4800.04,"end":4802.04,"text":"把他們所盤點所有的"},{"start":4802.04,"end":4804.04,"text":"需要修正的是哪一些"},{"start":4804.04,"end":4806.04,"text":"他的內容會是什麼我們再來做整理說"},{"start":4806.04,"end":4808.04,"text":"是法律的違節是法規命令的"},{"start":4808.04,"end":4810.04,"text":"是行政規則的"},{"start":4810.04,"end":4812.04,"text":"應該怎麼處理我們那時候後續"},{"start":4812.04,"end":4814.04,"text":"就會進一步的進度"},{"start":4814.04,"end":4816.04,"text":"好這個就是希望你們接下來"},{"start":4816.04,"end":4818.04,"text":"像我剛剛說的這一些相關的法律"},{"start":4818.04,"end":4820.04,"text":"都必須要進行完整的盤點"},{"start":4820.04,"end":4822.04,"text":"那給他們應有的權利"},{"start":4822.04,"end":4824.04,"text":"好那最後一個我是想要"},{"start":4824.04,"end":4826.04,"text":"提醒這個戶政端"},{"start":4826.04,"end":4828.04,"text":"的配套因為其實"},{"start":4828.04,"end":4830.04,"text":"1月的時候我有提一個"},{"start":4830.04,"end":4832.04,"text":"這個泰雅族人的例子就是"},{"start":4832.04,"end":4834.04,"text":"他想要幫他的新生兒登記族名"},{"start":4834.04,"end":4836.04,"text":"結果戶政人員說他的族名不在"},{"start":4836.04,"end":4838.04,"text":"他的人民譜上"},{"start":4838.04,"end":4840.04,"text":"那就有點稍微刁難了一下"},{"start":4840.04,"end":4842.04,"text":"那變成說他去登記沒有"},{"start":4842.04,"end":4844.04,"text":"很順利那我想要"},{"start":4844.04,"end":4846.04,"text":"講的就是這一些人民譜本來"},{"start":4846.04,"end":4848.04,"text":"就是參考的工具不是他"},{"start":4848.04,"end":4850.04,"text":"審核的依據"},{"start":4850.04,"end":4852.04,"text":"那所以我想問的是接下來"},{"start":4852.04,"end":4854.04,"text":"這些平埔族的族人"},{"start":4854.04,"end":4856.04,"text":"他們去到戶政事務所"},{"start":4856.04,"end":4858.04,"text":"那可能也會遇到相關的問題"},{"start":4858.04,"end":4860.04,"text":"更何況他們沒有這些相"},{"start":4860.04,"end":4862.04,"text":"他們相關的依據是更少的"},{"start":4862.04,"end":4864.04,"text":"那戶政端這邊是不是你們"},{"start":4864.04,"end":4866.04,"text":"應該要去溝通一下"},{"start":4866.04,"end":4868.04,"text":"我們在這個身份登記的部分"},{"start":4868.04,"end":4870.04,"text":"是要召開過兩次的會議"},{"start":4870.04,"end":4872.04,"text":"也是找戶政單位來討論"},{"start":4872.04,"end":4874.04,"text":"那相關的登記的作業"},{"start":4874.04,"end":4876.04,"text":"的要點啊或者是"},{"start":4876.04,"en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是"},{"start":4960.04,"end":4962.04,"text":"對所以那你們知道你們被糾正"},{"start":4962.04,"end":4964.04,"text":"的內容是什麼"},{"start":4964.04,"end":4966.04,"text":"共管的部分 沒錯"},{"start":4966.04,"end":4968.04,"text":"所以這個共管的部分你們現在"},{"start":4968.04,"end":4970.04,"text":"有沒有進行相關的"},{"start":4970.04,"end":4972.04,"text":"改善"},{"start":4972.04,"end":4974.04,"text":"共管的部分事實上我們在去年"},{"start":4974.04,"end":4976.04,"text":"就已經開始在研議要"},{"start":4976.04,"end":4978.04,"text":"會商各部會來研修這個共管"},{"start":4978.04,"end":4980.04,"text":"辦法 要跟我們報告共管"},{"start":4980.04,"end":4982.04,"text":"辦法是各部會大家要會先"},{"start":4982.04,"end":4984.04,"text":"發布啦所以當然原民會"},{"start":4984.04,"end":4986.04,"text":"一定會提出來我們需要的版本"},{"start":4986.04,"end":4988.04,"text":"但是在這個過程各部會"},{"start":4988.04,"end":4990.04,"text":"他們還是有他們的"},{"start":4990.04,"end":4992.04,"text":"所以我們會努力"},{"start":4992.04,"end":4994.04,"text":"副主委講到一個重點你們會"},{"start":4994.04,"end":4996.04,"text":"提出你們要的版本那我在這邊"},{"start":4996.04,"end":4998.04,"text":"具體的建議就是"},{"start":4998.04,"end":5000.04,"text":"我們到時候的共管辦法"},{"start":5000.04,"end":5002.04,"text":"這個得可以"},{"start":5002.04,"end":5004.04,"text":"改成因 這個也是一開始我們提的就是因啦"},{"start":5004.04,"end":5006.04,"text":"是的 可是後來"},{"start":5006.04,"end":5008.04,"text":"協調到最後就是還是改成"},{"start":5008.04,"end":5010.04,"text":"我們一開始的版本就是這樣"},{"start":5010.04,"end":5012.04,"text":"那我們這一次事實上"},{"start":5012.04,"end":5014.04,"text":"在修我們還是希望能夠把這個"},{"start":5014.04,"end":5016.04,"text":"得改成因因為"},{"start":5016.04,"end":5018.04,"text":"我們發現到有很多的"},{"start":5018.04,"end":5020.04,"text":"資源治理機關像領務局他們"},{"start":5020.04,"end":5022.04,"text":"相關的機關他們事實上都有"},{"start":5022.04,"end":5024.04,"text":"成立共管的這樣的一個"},{"start":5024.04,"end":5026.04,"text":"委員會或是動體會所以我們希望說"},{"start":5026.04,"end":5028.04,"text":"如果現行"},{"start":5028.04,"end":5030.04,"text":"大家都已經可以溯及既往去"},{"start":5030.04,"end":5032.04,"text":"成立的話我想這個改成因應該是必然"},{"start":5032.04,"end":5034.04,"text":"好所以我希望你們要有你們的立場"},{"start":5034.04,"end":5036.04,"text":"然後堅持應該要幫"},{"start":5036.04,"end":5038.04,"text":"原住民族爭取他們的權益"},{"start":5038.04,"end":5040.04,"text":"好不好 謝謝"},{"start":5040.04,"end":5042.04,"text":"所以這個共管辦法那最後再提醒一個就是"},{"start":5042.04,"end":5044.04,"text":"這個共同召集人因為其實"},{"start":5044.04,"end":5046.04,"text":"剛剛你說的這個林保署"},{"start":5046.04,"end":5048.04,"text":"還有國家公園署其實裡面都有提到"},{"start":5048.04,"end":5050.04,"text":"必須要有一個原住民族的"},{"start":5050.04,"end":5052.04,"text":"代表擔任共同召集人"},{"start":5052.04,"end":5054.04,"text":"但是我們沒有"},{"start":5054.04,"end":5056.04,"text":"我們希望全力要分享義務要共同承擔"},{"start":5056.04,"end":5058.04,"text":"沒錯所以希望"},{"start":5058.04,"end":5060.04,"text":"到時候共同召集人的部分你們也可以納進去"},{"start":5060.04,"end":5062.04,"text":"是謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":5062.04,"end":5064.04,"text":"謝謝委員的指導"},{"start":5070.04,"end":5072.04,"text":"我們現在為請張宏路委員發言質詢"},{"start":5072.04,"end":5074.04,"text":"請"},{"start":5086.04,"end":5088.04,"text":"我請主委"},{"start":5092.04,"end":5094.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":5094.04,"end":5096.04,"text":"副主委"},{"start":5096.04,"end":5098.04,"text":"這個我們"},{"start":5098.04,"end":5100.04,"text":"這個"},{"start":5100.04,"end":5102.04,"text":"島嶼族航海計畫"},{"start":5102.04,"end":5104.04,"text":"這個其實都已經做了"},{"start":5104.04,"end":5106.04,"text":"也做得不錯"},{"start":5106.04,"end":5108.04,"text":"那你們現在做完了之後"},{"start":5108.04,"end":5110.04,"text":"後續你們還有什麼推動"},{"start":5112.04,"end":5116.04,"text":"後續事實上我們是希望能夠持續的進行這個文化繼續的交流"},{"start":5116.04,"end":5118.04,"text":"那我們也有相關"},{"start":5118.04,"end":5120.04,"text":"未來的規劃是不是那個"},{"start":5120.04,"end":5122.04,"text":"簡單"},{"start":5122.04,"end":5124.04,"text":"我簡單問明年會繼續辦嗎"},{"start":5126.04,"end":5128.04,"text":"航海應該"},{"start":5128.04,"end":5130.04,"text":"沒有辦法每年這樣持續辦"},{"start":5130.04,"end":5132.04,"text":"因為它事實上未來"},{"start":5132.04,"end":5134.04,"text":"未來還是有可能"},{"start":5134.04,"end":5136.04,"text":"因為我們這次有一個非常"},{"start":5136.04,"end":5138.04,"text":"經過這樣的過程我們吸收了非常多的經驗"},{"start":5138.04,"end":5140.04,"text":"好"},{"start":5140.04,"end":5142.04,"text":"我"},{"start":5142.04,"end":5144.04,"text":"我覺得整個"},{"start":5144.04,"end":5146.04,"text":"這個南島與系"},{"start":5146.04,"end":5148.04,"text":"其實範圍蠻大的"},{"start":5148.04,"end":5150.04,"text":"那我們這一次"},{"start":5150.04,"end":5152.04,"text":"有到菲律賓了"},{"start":5152.04,"end":5154.04,"text":"到這邊"},{"start":5154.04,"end":5156.04,"text":"因為你這次也是有文化部"},{"start":5156.04,"end":5158.04,"text":"文化部什麼大家一起合辦"},{"start":5158.04,"end":5160.04,"text":"外交部什麼的"},{"start":5160.04,"end":5162.04,"text":"我想請問一下"},{"start":5162.04,"end":5164.04,"text":"這個我們"},{"start":5164.04,"end":5166.04,"text":"自己在這邊辦得很高興"},{"start":5166.04,"end":5168.04,"text":"那在菲律賓的宣傳"},{"start":5168.04,"end":5170.04,"text":"你們後續要怎麼做"},{"start":5170.04,"end":5172.04,"text":"有這個計畫嗎"},{"start":5172.04,"end":5174.04,"text":"菲律賓的宣傳"},{"start":5174.04,"end":5176.04,"text":"的部分"},{"start":5176.04,"end":5178.04,"text":"請董事長說明一下"},{"start":5178.04,"end":5180.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":5180.04,"end":5182.04,"text":"就是我們這一次"},{"start":5182.04,"end":5184.04,"text":"的Ufayan就是"},{"start":5184.04,"end":5186.04,"text":"黃金友一號"},{"start":5186.04,"end":5188.04,"text":"我們劃到巴丹島之後"},{"start":5188.04,"end":5190.04,"text":"那這個都不用講了"},{"start":5190.04,"end":5192.04,"text":"這個都知道了"},{"start":5192.04,"end":5194.04,"text":"然後進行後續"},{"start":5194.04,"end":5196.04,"text":"在巴丹島進行這個傳"},{"start":5196.04,"end":5198.04,"text":"跟社區跟研究單位的合作"},{"start":5198.04,"end":5200.04,"text":"行銷"},{"start":5200.04,"end":5202.04,"text":"跟研究單位跟什麼"},{"start":5202.04,"end":5204.04,"text":"這是一件事我說的是宣傳"},{"start":5204.04,"end":5206.04,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":5206.04,"end":5208.04,"text":"雪濃與水啦"},{"start":5208.04,"end":5210.04,"text":"你既然大家的"},{"start":5210.04,"end":5212.04,"text":"這個南島與系都一樣"},{"start":5212.04,"end":5214.04,"text":"要跟他當朋友"},{"start":5214.04,"end":5216.04,"text":"你為什麼不趁著這個機會"},{"start":5216.04,"end":5218.04,"text":"把這些南島與系的人"},{"start":5218.04,"end":5220.04,"text":"讓他知道台灣的"},{"start":5220.04,"end":5222.04,"text":"藍與答物什麼跟他們就是"},{"start":5222.04,"end":5224.04,"text":"同源同種"},{"start":5224.04,"end":5226.04,"text":"他們才可以連接起來"},{"start":5226.04,"end":5228.04,"text":"他才會對台灣友好"},{"start":5228.04,"end":5230.04,"text":"才會遇到事情"},{"start":5230.04,"end":5232.04,"text":"這個就是我們的族人"},{"start":5232.04,"end":5234.04,"text":"這個是後續的宣傳才是重要的"},{"start":5234.04,"end":5236.04,"text":"所以你們後面"},{"start":5236.04,"end":5238.04,"text":"邊這些預算"},{"start":5238.04,"end":5240.04,"text":"在這些南島與系的國家去宣傳"},{"start":5240.04,"end":5242.04,"text":"那你可以跟外交部"},{"start":5242.04,"end":5244.04,"text":"跟什麼大家配合啊"},{"start":5244.04,"end":5246.04,"text":"不然你花了這麼多錢"},{"start":5246.04,"end":5248.04,"text":"就這樣子放了煙火就沒了"},{"start":5248.04,"end":5250.04,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":5250.04,"end":5252.04,"text":"因為我們在明年也有編了"},{"start":5252.04,"end":5254.04,"text":"相關南島文化交流中長程計畫"},{"start":5254.04,"end":5256.04,"text":"那這個計畫裡面"},{"start":5256.04,"end":5258.04,"text":"有一些資源會整合運用"},{"start":5258.04,"end":5260.04,"text":"那不管是航海人才的培育"},{"start":5260.04,"end":5262.04,"text":"跟航海記憶傳傳"},{"start":5262.04,"end":5264.04,"text":"跟合作交流"},{"start":5264.04,"end":5266.04,"text":"我的重點跟你們回答的"},{"start":5266.04,"end":5268.04,"text":"完全不一樣"},{"start":5268.04,"end":5270.04,"text":"那我就明確的跟你們說"},{"start":5270.04,"end":5272.04,"text":"我希望你們"},{"start":5272.04,"end":5276.04,"text":"要編這個國際的宣傳的預算"},{"start":5276.04,"end":5278.04,"text":"然後讓他們知道"},{"start":5278.04,"end":5280.04,"text":"所有南島與系的人知道"},{"start":5280.04,"end":5282.04,"text":"台灣就是跟他們一樣的"},{"start":5282.04,"end":5284.04,"text":"台灣的答物組"},{"start":5284.04,"end":5286.04,"text":"這些跟他們一樣的"},{"start":5286.04,"end":5288.04,"text":"可以跟外交部配合"},{"start":5288.04,"end":5290.04,"text":"可以跟什麼"},{"start":5290.04,"end":5292.04,"text":"然後在那邊辦活動"},{"start":5292.04,"end":5294.04,"text":"然後用宣傳"},{"start":5294.04,"end":5296.04,"text":"我覺得這個才是重點"},{"start":5296.04,"end":5298.04,"text":"我們來檢討"},{"start":5298.04,"end":5300.04,"text":"來改進看看怎麼處理"},{"start":5300.04,"end":5302.04,"text":"可以喔"},{"start":5302.04,"end":5304.04,"text":"那我希望我在明年的預算看到這些"},{"start":5304.04,"end":5306.04,"text":"不然我預算"},{"start":5306.04,"end":5308.04,"text":"我說得很支持"},{"start":5308.04,"end":5310.04,"text":"我們再來檢討這個部分"},{"start":5310.04,"end":5312.04,"text":"我覺得這個要嘛"},{"start":5312.04,"end":5314.04,"text":"我跟你講很多國家"},{"start":5314.04,"end":5316.04,"text":"都這樣做"},{"start":5316.04,"end":5318.04,"text":"那我們既然花了這麼多錢"},{"start":5318.04,"end":5320.04,"text":"我希望你們要這樣子做"},{"start":5320.04,"end":5322.04,"text":"才不會浪費了這些"},{"start":5322.04,"end":5324.04,"text":"你想想看"},{"start":5324.04,"end":5326.04,"text":"你跟他如果他認同你"},{"start":5326.04,"end":5328.04,"text":"有任何事情"},{"start":5328.04,"end":5330.04,"text":"他會聽你說話"},{"start":5330.04,"end":5332.04,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5332.04,"end":5334.04,"text":"不是只有一個宣傳"},{"start":5334.04,"end":5336.04,"text":"不是只有對台灣"},{"start":5336.04,"end":5338.04,"text":"我覺得太可惜了啦"},{"start":5338.04,"end":5340.04,"text":"可以啦"},{"start":5340.04,"end":5342.04,"text":"你們會這樣做"},{"start":5342.04,"end":5344.04,"text":"那我也希望說"},{"start":5344.04,"end":5346.04,"text":"如果你們要怎麼做"},{"start":5346.04,"end":5348.04,"text":"也給我一個資料給我"},{"start":5348.04,"end":5350.04,"text":"大家一起看看"},{"start":5350.04,"end":5352.04,"text":"也不要給我而已"},{"start":5352.04,"end":5354.04,"text":"大家集思廣益"},{"start":5354.04,"end":5356.04,"text":"看怎麼做會比較好"},{"start":5356.04,"end":5358.04,"text":"這個我覺得很難得的機會"},{"start":5358.04,"end":5360.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5360.04,"end":5362.04,"text":"可以給董事長補充一下嗎"},{"start":5362.04,"end":5364.04,"text":"跟副委員再做一個補充"},{"start":5364.04,"end":5366.04,"text":"就是在九月份"},{"start":5366.04,"end":5368.04,"text":"那全世界的原住民電視台"},{"start":5368.04,"end":5370.04,"text":"原住民的媒體"},{"start":5370.04,"end":5372.04,"text":"會在挪威"},{"start":5372.04,"end":5374.04,"text":"有一個世界大會"},{"start":5374.04,"end":5376.04,"text":"那這個航海的計畫"},{"start":5376.04,"end":5378.04,"text":"跟國際的文化的交流"},{"start":5378.04,"end":5380.04,"text":"也會在那個地方"},{"start":5380.04,"end":5382.04,"text":"來跟所有的"},{"start":5382.04,"end":5384.04,"text":"全世界的原住民做宣傳"},{"start":5384.04,"end":5386.04,"text":"這個我都支持"},{"start":5386.04,"end":5388.04,"text":"但重點"},{"start":5388.04,"end":5390.04,"text":"在南島語系的國家"},{"start":5390.04,"end":5392.04,"text":"我們這個要宣傳"},{"start":5392.04,"end":5394.04,"text":"要做讓他們要互相認同"},{"start":5394.04,"end":5396.04,"text":"這個才是重點"},{"start":5396.04,"end":5398.04,"text":"我覺得這個才是這樣"},{"start":5398.04,"end":5400.04,"text":"那再來"},{"start":5400.04,"end":5402.04,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":5402.04,"end":5404.04,"text":"我們原住民主廣播電台"},{"start":5404.04,"end":5406.04,"text":"這個信號"},{"start":5406.04,"end":5408.04,"text":"我看你們那個資料"},{"start":5408.04,"end":5410.04,"text":"預算是編不夠嗎"},{"start":5412.04,"end":5414.04,"text":"因為你們的建置"},{"start":5414.04,"end":5416.04,"text":"我覺得還沒有"},{"start":5416.04,"end":5418.04,"text":"達到我們的目標"},{"start":5418.04,"end":5420.04,"text":"目前只有82%"},{"start":5420.04,"end":5422.04,"text":"預算是不夠嗎"},{"start":5422.04,"end":5424.04,"text":"並沒有不夠"},{"start":5424.04,"end":5426.04,"text":"就是技術性的問題"},{"start":5426.04,"end":5428.04,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5428.04,"end":5430.04,"text":"那我真的覺得太慢了"},{"start":5430.04,"end":5432.04,"text":"技術性的問題"},{"start":5432.04,"end":5434.04,"text":"應該很好解決"},{"start":5434.04,"end":5436.04,"text":"只要是技術性的問題"},{"start":5436.04,"end":5438.04,"text":"都不是不能解決的"},{"start":5438.04,"end":5440.04,"text":"我希望能夠快一點"},{"start":5440.04,"end":5442.04,"text":"你們不要"},{"start":5442.04,"end":5444.04,"text":"你們可以跟各部會"},{"start":5444.04,"end":5446.04,"text":"互相協力"},{"start":5446.04,"end":5448.04,"text":"大家互相幫忙"},{"start":5448.04,"end":5450.04,"text":"互相協力互相協作"},{"start":5450.04,"end":5452.04,"text":"我覺得這樣的"},{"start":5452.04,"end":5454.04,"text":"真的太慢了"},{"start":5454.04,"end":5456.04,"text":"每年給你這麼多的預算"},{"start":5456.04,"end":5458.04,"text":"結果你信號出不出去"},{"start":5458.04,"end":5460.04,"text":"那給你們預算幹嘛"},{"start":5460.04,"end":5462.04,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5462.04,"end":5464.04,"text":"現在研議會也會協助"},{"start":5464.04,"end":5466.04,"text":"我們會來處理這個"},{"start":5466.04,"end":5468.04,"text":"有關於工程技術要跨部會協調的部分"},{"start":5468.04,"end":5470.04,"text":"這個本來就要做"},{"start":5470.04,"end":5472.04,"text":"我的意思是本來就要做"},{"start":5472.04,"end":5474.04,"text":"不是現在才要做"},{"start":5474.04,"end":5476.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5476.04,"end":5478.04,"text":"我覺得這個真的太慢了"},{"start":5478.04,"end":5480.04,"text":"你自己想想看"},{"start":5480.04,"end":5482.04,"text":"我如果是原住民的朋友"},{"start":5482.04,"end":5484.04,"text":"你們講的那麼多"},{"start":5484.04,"end":5486.04,"text":"我連收聽都收聽不到"},{"start":5486.04,"end":5488.04,"text":"我覺得這個不對"},{"start":5488.04,"end":5490.04,"text":"你們多久可以改善"},{"start":5490.04,"end":5492.04,"text":"我們在"},{"start":5492.04,"end":5494.04,"text":"一年之內"},{"start":5494.04,"end":5496.04,"text":"我們所有的"},{"start":5496.04,"end":5498.04,"text":"站塔應該進度會"},{"start":5498.04,"end":5500.04,"text":"再超前"},{"start":5500.04,"end":5502.04,"text":"各位再做報告就是這些站塔"},{"start":5502.04,"end":5504.04,"text":"其實大部分是在原鄉的"},{"start":5504.04,"end":5506.04,"text":"山坡地"},{"start":5506.04,"end":5508.04,"text":"這個山坡地的相關法規"},{"start":5508.04,"end":5510.04,"text":"以及原住民保留地的相關"},{"start":5510.04,"end":5512.04,"text":"這個我都知道"},{"start":5512.04,"end":5514.04,"text":"這個我都知道"},{"start":5514.04,"end":5516.04,"text":"但你們就是遇到問題停在那邊"},{"start":5516.04,"end":5518.04,"text":"我跟你講有很多方式可以解決"},{"start":5518.04,"end":5520.04,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":5520.04,"end":5522.04,"text":"我舉個例子好了"},{"start":5522.04,"end":5524.04,"text":"我舉個例子好了"},{"start":5524.04,"end":5526.04,"text":"人家定性公司"},{"start":5526.04,"end":5528.04,"text":"他為了要賺錢"},{"start":5528.04,"end":5530.04,"text":"他會想盡辦法趕快解決"},{"start":5530.04,"end":5532.04,"text":"但你們就是"},{"start":5532.04,"end":5534.04,"text":"我運動問題我卡住了"},{"start":5534.04,"end":5536.04,"text":"我就怎麼樣"},{"start":5536.04,"end":5538.04,"text":"我覺得那是不對的"},{"start":5538.04,"end":5540.04,"text":"你們不夠積極"},{"start":5540.04,"end":5542.04,"text":"你請各部會一起協調處理"},{"start":5542.04,"end":5544.04,"text":"我覺得就會快很多"},{"start":5544.04,"end":5546.04,"text":"我舉這個例子很清楚吧"},{"start":5546.04,"end":5548.04,"text":"其實最主要是"},{"start":5548.04,"end":5550.04,"text":"鄉公所都出面幫忙我們"},{"start":5550.04,"end":5552.04,"text":"有一些地方的土地的取得"},{"start":5552.04,"end":5554.04,"text":"跟山坡地鄉公所跟我們的合作"},{"start":5554.04,"end":5556.04,"text":"蠻密切"},{"start":5556.04,"end":5558.04,"text":"我們在這一塊可能會再繼續努力"},{"start":5558.04,"end":5560.04,"text":"我跟你講做事情"},{"start":5560.04,"end":5562.04,"text":"要找對方法"},{"start":5562.04,"end":5564.04,"text":"不是每天公文在那邊"},{"start":5564.04,"end":5566.04,"text":"你看人家"},{"start":5566.04,"end":5568.04,"text":"如果你們不知道你去看人家"},{"start":5568.04,"end":5570.04,"text":"定性公司如何解決"},{"start":5570.04,"end":5572.04,"text":"這些問題"},{"start":5572.04,"end":5574.04,"text":"我覺得你如果你們不是工程專業"},{"start":5574.04,"end":5576.04,"text":"我了解"},{"start":5576.04,"end":5578.04,"text":"但有很多例子你們去找來參考就好了"},{"start":5578.04,"end":5580.04,"text":"人家就可以馬上解決"},{"start":5580.04,"end":5582.04,"text":"那我覺得這樣拖得太久了"},{"start":5582.04,"end":5584.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5584.04,"end":5586.04,"text":"我覺得剝奪了原住民"},{"start":5586.04,"end":5588.04,"text":"我們在比較偏鄉的"},{"start":5588.04,"end":5590.04,"text":"原住民的同胞"},{"start":5590.04,"end":5592.04,"text":"他們的權利"},{"start":5592.04,"end":5594.04,"text":"好不好這點拜託"},{"start":5594.04,"end":5596.04,"text":"最後再給我30秒"},{"start":5596.04,"end":5598.04,"text":"副主委"},{"start":5598.04,"end":5600.04,"text":"原住民"},{"start":5600.04,"end":5602.04,"text":"如果去打獵"},{"start":5602.04,"end":5604.04,"text":"他是不是配槍跟配刀"},{"start":5604.04,"end":5606.04,"text":"可以"},{"start":5606.04,"end":5608.04,"text":"那他如果去參加"},{"start":5608.04,"end":5610.04,"text":"豐年祭什麼的"},{"start":5610.04,"end":5612.04,"text":"他可不可以照他們"},{"start":5612.04,"end":5614.04,"text":"各族的傳統配槍配刀"},{"start":5614.04,"end":5616.04,"text":"豐年祭"},{"start":5616.04,"end":5618.04,"text":"我們在很多豐年祭事實上"},{"start":5618.04,"end":5620.04,"text":"在很多的祭儀的過程都會用到獵槍"},{"start":5620.04,"end":5622.04,"text":"甚至"},{"start":5622.04,"end":5624.04,"text":"配刀是一個本身的"},{"start":5624.04,"end":5626.04,"text":"服飾上的標準配配"},{"start":5626.04,"end":5628.04,"text":"可不可以"},{"start":5628.04,"end":5630.04,"text":"那他如果可以的話"},{"start":5630.04,"end":5632.04,"text":"我相信"},{"start":5632.04,"end":5634.04,"text":"我要講的你知道"},{"start":5634.04,"end":5636.04,"text":"你們"},{"start":5636.04,"end":5638.04,"text":"應該要跟警政署"},{"start":5638.04,"end":5640.04,"text":"跟什麼"},{"start":5640.04,"end":5642.04,"text":"要去聯絡好"},{"start":5642.04,"end":5644.04,"text":"這種事情不能再發生"},{"start":5644.04,"end":5646.04,"text":"不管他有沒有做出"},{"start":5646.04,"end":5648.04,"text":"抗議的行為"},{"start":5648.04,"end":5650.04,"text":"這是對原住民傳統的尊重"},{"start":5650.04,"end":5652.04,"text":"那個事件的本身"},{"start":5652.04,"end":5654.04,"text":"可能"},{"start":5654.04,"end":5656.04,"text":"到底怎麼樣"},{"start":5656.04,"end":5658.04,"text":"但原住民的傳統的本身"},{"start":5658.04,"end":5660.04,"text":"這個要尊重"},{"start":5660.04,"end":5662.04,"text":"這個是你們原民會最主要的責任"},{"start":5662.04,"end":5664.04,"text":"事情發生了之後"},{"start":5664.04,"end":5666.04,"text":"你們有跟警政署聯繫了嗎"},{"start":5670.04,"end":5672.04,"text":"跟委員報告目前還沒有"},{"start":5672.04,"end":5674.04,"text":"沒有嘛"},{"start":5674.04,"end":5676.04,"text":"這個不對啦"},{"start":5676.04,"end":5678.04,"text":"我也知道你們沒有"},{"start":5678.04,"end":5680.04,"text":"但如果是這種事情一發生"},{"start":5680.04,"end":5682.04,"text":"馬上就要跟他們講"},{"start":5682.04,"end":5684.04,"text":"你們的主委就要跟內政部長講"},{"start":5684.04,"end":5686.04,"text":"這是我們原住民族的傳統"},{"start":5686.04,"end":5688.04,"text":"我覺得不管什麼事情"},{"start":5688.04,"end":5690.04,"text":"都有其他面向"},{"start":5690.04,"end":5692.04,"text":"但傳統"},{"start":5692.04,"end":5694.04,"text":"就是傳統"},{"start":5694.04,"end":5696.04,"text":"不然我們每天在這邊"},{"start":5696.04,"end":5698.04,"text":"講這麼多"},{"start":5698.04,"end":5700.04,"text":"立這麼多的法"},{"start":5700.04,"end":5702.04,"text":"要幹什麼"},{"start":5702.04,"end":5704.04,"text":"這一點我拜託你們"},{"start":5704.04,"end":5706.04,"text":"如果趕快去處理"},{"start":5706.04,"end":5708.04,"text":"未來有類似這種事情"},{"start":5708.04,"end":5710.04,"text":"你要第一時間要處理"},{"start":5710.04,"end":5712.04,"text":"你們主委就是要跟內政部長講"},{"start":5712.04,"end":5714.04,"text":"這是我們的傳統"},{"start":5714.04,"end":5716.04,"text":"對不對 不應該這樣子"},{"start":5716.04,"end":5718.04,"text":"你覺得勒"},{"start":5718.04,"end":5720.04,"text":"我們會跟主委"},{"start":5720.04,"end":5722.04,"text":"傳達這件事情"},{"start":5722.04,"end":5724.04,"text":"跟內政部看後續怎麼樣"},{"start":5724.04,"end":5726.04,"text":"這個要趕快處理"},{"start":5726.04,"end":5728.04,"text":"未來如果有類似這種"},{"start":5728.04,"end":5730.04,"text":"不尊重原住民傳統的"},{"start":5730.04,"end":5732.04,"text":"我覺得你們第一時間要出來"},{"start":5732.04,"end":5734.04,"text":"很多原住民族的同胞"},{"start":5734.04,"end":5736.04,"text":"都在看我們原民會"},{"start":5736.04,"end":5738.04,"text":"到底在做了什麼事情"},{"start":5738.04,"end":5740.04,"text":"你這樣子是會含了所有原住民"},{"start":5740.04,"end":5742.04,"text":"同胞的心"},{"start":5742.04,"end":5744.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5744.04,"end":5746.04,"text":"謝謝委員指導"},{"start":5772.04,"end":5774.04,"text":"這是我關心的"},{"start":5774.04,"end":5778.04,"text":"藍語跟巴丹島的連結"},{"start":5778.04,"end":5780.04,"text":"除了單次的活動之外"},{"start":5780.04,"end":5782.04,"text":"我們更希望看到"},{"start":5782.04,"end":5784.04,"text":"後續無論是"},{"start":5784.04,"end":5786.04,"text":"民族情感持續的交流"},{"start":5786.04,"end":5788.04,"text":"甚至是擴大到"},{"start":5788.04,"end":5790.04,"text":"國家整體的利益"},{"start":5790.04,"end":5792.04,"text":"也能夠藉由這樣的活動"},{"start":5792.04,"end":5794.04,"text":"去做到外交"},{"start":5794.04,"end":5796.04,"text":"或者是相關可能"},{"start":5796.04,"end":5798.04,"text":"漁權上面的一個"},{"start":5798.04,"end":5800.04,"text":"互助"},{"start":5800.04,"end":5802.04,"text":"我可能先就這兩方面來說明一下"},{"start":5802.04,"end":5804.04,"text":"第一個就是"},{"start":5804.04,"end":5806.04,"text":"民族的文化交流"},{"start":5806.04,"end":5808.04,"text":"循根"},{"start":5808.04,"end":5810.04,"text":"除了這一次之後"},{"start":5810.04,"end":5812.04,"text":"後續有沒有一些定期的活動"},{"start":5812.04,"end":5814.04,"text":"讓這一次的活動"},{"start":5814.04,"end":5816.04,"text":"不是只是後續拍拍"},{"start":5816.04,"end":5818.04,"text":"紀念影片"},{"start":5818.04,"end":5820.04,"text":"然後做個紀念"},{"start":5820.04,"end":5822.04,"text":"就沒有了"},{"start":5822.04,"end":5824.04,"text":"我想這也不是說族人的期待"},{"start":5824.04,"end":5826.04,"text":"或是說"},{"start":5826.04,"end":5828.04,"text":"現在有沒有在爭取相關的預算"},{"start":5828.04,"end":5830.04,"text":"未來能夠做更深層的連結"},{"start":5830.04,"end":5832.04,"text":"或者說現在是我們過去"},{"start":5832.04,"end":5834.04,"text":"未來有沒有一些"},{"start":5834.04,"end":5836.04,"text":"邀訪的計畫"},{"start":5836.04,"end":5838.04,"text":"好凶本來就是互相"},{"start":5838.04,"end":5840.04,"text":"不能做到我們去"},{"start":5840.04,"end":5842.04,"text":"他們也來讓我們才能看得到"},{"start":5842.04,"end":5844.04,"text":"這樣的成果是雙方都是"},{"start":5844.04,"end":5846.04,"text":"期待看到的"},{"start":5846.04,"end":5848.04,"text":"情感連結"},{"start":5848.04,"end":5850.04,"text":"我想未來原民會是會運用"},{"start":5850.04,"end":5852.04,"text":"南島文化交流中長程的計畫"},{"start":5852.04,"end":5854.04,"text":"來爭取預算"},{"start":5854.04,"end":5856.04,"text":"來做跨部會資源的運用"},{"start":5856.04,"end":5858.04,"text":"持續的辦了傳統"},{"start":5858.04,"end":5860.04,"text":"實際一點的方向"},{"start":5860.04,"end":5862.04,"text":"可能會有哪一天"},{"start":5862.04,"end":5864.04,"text":"實際的做法"},{"start":5864.04,"end":5866.04,"text":"我想藍語的族人"},{"start":5866.04,"end":5868.04,"text":"應該平常"},{"start":5868.04,"end":5870.04,"text":"經常都有這樣的一個互動"},{"start":5870.04,"end":5872.04,"text":"他們事實上之前"},{"start":5872.04,"end":5874.04,"text":"民間或是本來的部分"},{"start":5874.04,"end":5876.04,"text":"未來就是現在我們是"},{"start":5876.04,"end":5878.04,"text":"官方在協助推動"},{"start":5878.04,"end":5880.04,"text":"國家資源進來了"},{"start":5880.04,"end":5882.04,"text":"當然不希望國家資源就進來"},{"start":5882.04,"end":5884.04,"text":"如果說你進來一次他們之後"},{"start":5884.04,"end":5886.04,"text":"常常的這個"},{"start":5886.04,"end":5888.04,"text":"交流非常密切的話"},{"start":5888.04,"end":5890.04,"text":"我覺得可能有點不切實際"},{"start":5890.04,"end":5892.04,"text":"如果是國家的"},{"start":5892.04,"end":5894.04,"text":"中長程計畫"},{"start":5894.04,"end":5896.04,"text":"應該就會有一個具體的想要做的事項"},{"start":5896.04,"end":5898.04,"text":"在裡面你才能夠編經費"},{"start":5898.04,"end":5900.04,"text":"現在有沒有一些初步的構想"},{"start":5900.04,"end":5902.04,"text":"能夠分享"},{"start":5902.04,"end":5904.04,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":5904.04,"end":5906.04,"text":"我們目前都全力配合"},{"start":5906.04,"end":5910.04,"text":"原民會在原住民文化上面的推動"},{"start":5910.04,"end":5912.04,"text":"近期在明年"},{"start":5912.04,"end":5914.04,"text":"明年藍語鄉公所"},{"start":5914.04,"end":5916.04,"text":"也會組織一個訪問團"},{"start":5916.04,"end":5918.04,"text":"繼續延續這個航海"},{"start":5918.04,"end":5920.04,"text":"第二個就是我們"},{"start":5920.04,"end":5922.04,"text":"划到巴丹島之後"},{"start":5922.04,"end":5924.04,"text":"抱歉 剛剛您講"},{"start":5924.04,"end":5926.04,"text":"藍語明年會再組織一個航海"},{"start":5926.04,"end":5928.04,"text":"鄉公所"},{"start":5928.04,"end":5930.04,"text":"再過去一次"},{"start":5930.04,"end":5932.04,"text":"另外就是"},{"start":5932.04,"end":5934.04,"text":"另外就是我們會"},{"start":5934.04,"end":5936.04,"text":"因為現在船在巴丹島"},{"start":5936.04,"end":5938.04,"text":"明年巴丹島的省長"},{"start":5938.04,"end":5940.04,"text":"他也希望用那艘船"},{"start":5940.04,"end":5942.04,"text":"再回來藍語"},{"start":5942.04,"end":5944.04,"text":"最主要是我本身自己是藍語人"},{"start":5944.04,"end":5946.04,"text":"我們過去都會划船過去"},{"start":5946.04,"end":5948.04,"text":"通魂然後交易這個"},{"start":5948.04,"end":5950.04,"text":"農作物所以如果能夠"},{"start":5950.04,"end":5952.04,"text":"直航的話我們在文化上"},{"start":5952.04,"end":5954.04,"text":"教育觀光的合作可能就會"},{"start":5954.04,"end":5956.04,"text":"更密切"},{"start":5956.04,"end":5958.04,"text":"所以未來這樣子巴丹島跟藍語之間的"},{"start":5958.04,"end":5960.04,"text":"航行"},{"start":5960.04,"end":5962.04,"text":"可能會變成"},{"start":5962.04,"end":5964.04,"text":"例行性的常態的"},{"start":5964.04,"end":5966.04,"text":"當然不是每天可能就每個年度"},{"start":5966.04,"end":5968.04,"text":"互相來訪這樣子那未來他們"},{"start":5968.04,"end":5970.04,"text":"來的意願"},{"start":5970.04,"end":5972.04,"text":"如果說大家都認為是一件好的事情"},{"start":5972.04,"end":5974.04,"text":"當然有文化"},{"start":5974.04,"end":5976.04,"text":"或者是影視上面的支持"},{"start":5976.04,"end":5978.04,"text":"讓大家更認識加強裡面的連結都很好"},{"start":5978.04,"end":5980.04,"text":"繼續做下去我想這也是"},{"start":5980.04,"end":5982.04,"text":"大家所期待的"},{"start":5982.04,"end":5984.04,"text":"另外一個就是可能對於"},{"start":5984.04,"end":5986.04,"text":"一部分是民族的情感"},{"start":5986.04,"end":5988.04,"text":"的連結循根"},{"start":5988.04,"end":5990.04,"text":"另外一部分也是國家化許多的預算"},{"start":5990.04,"end":5992.04,"text":"剛剛講了尤其是我們可能最近"},{"start":5992.04,"end":5994.04,"text":"以中華民國來講"},{"start":5994.04,"end":5996.04,"text":"跟菲律賓如果說要有"},{"start":5996.04,"end":5998.04,"text":"可能就是在漁業方面的衝突"},{"start":5998.04,"end":6000.04,"text":"可能是比較大的"},{"start":6000.04,"end":6002.04,"text":"我也覺得說是不是能夠"},{"start":6002.04,"end":6004.04,"text":"或許這可能不是原民會的"},{"start":6004.04,"end":6006.04,"text":"業務這當然不是你們的業務這是漁業組的"},{"start":6006.04,"end":6008.04,"text":"但是既然"},{"start":6008.04,"end":6010.04,"text":"這個算是一種"},{"start":6010.04,"end":6012.04,"text":"外交行為我們認為以國家的"},{"start":6012.04,"end":6014.04,"text":"角度來看它是一種外交行為我們也希望說這樣"},{"start":6014.04,"end":6016.04,"text":"外交行為的有效的提升"},{"start":6016.04,"end":6018.04,"text":"對於未來雙方的"},{"start":6018.04,"end":6020.04,"text":"漁業的談判也能夠"},{"start":6020.04,"end":6022.04,"text":"一圈可能是你是"},{"start":6022.04,"end":6024.04,"text":"中華民國你是菲律賓"},{"start":6024.04,"end":6026.04,"text":"兩個不同的國家現在是"},{"start":6026.04,"end":6028.04,"text":"自己人"},{"start":6028.04,"end":6030.04,"text":"大家是一家人那有些東西"},{"start":6030.04,"end":6032.04,"text":"是不是沒有必要計較的那麼清楚"},{"start":6032.04,"end":6034.04,"text":"我覺得是不是"},{"start":6034.04,"end":6036.04,"text":"在未來漁業權的"},{"start":6036.04,"end":6038.04,"text":"方面你有沒有想過"},{"start":6038.04,"end":6040.04,"text":"有沒有辦法在這方面來協助國家"},{"start":6040.04,"end":6042.04,"text":"報告委員這個"},{"start":6042.04,"end":6044.04,"text":"漁業上面的"},{"start":6044.04,"end":6046.04,"text":"這個產業當然不在我們"},{"start":6046.04,"end":6048.04,"text":"原文會的權限不過"},{"start":6048.04,"end":6050.04,"text":"我們在去年邀請巴丹省的"},{"start":6050.04,"end":6052.04,"text":"省長的訪問團他們來台灣的時候"},{"start":6052.04,"end":6054.04,"text":"有跟漁業署進行一個"},{"start":6054.04,"end":6056.04,"text":"會談洽商"},{"start":6056.04,"end":6058.04,"text":"因為過去其實這個漁業比較緊張"},{"start":6058.04,"end":6060.04,"text":"雙方也談到一些"},{"start":6060.04,"end":6062.04,"text":"合作"},{"start":6062.04,"end":6064.04,"text":"互相投資或者是"},{"start":6064.04,"end":6066.04,"text":"漁業的輔導"},{"start":6066.04,"end":6068.04,"text":"共享漁業資源目前是他們"},{"start":6068.04,"end":6070.04,"text":"過去是去年是有談到"},{"start":6070.04,"end":6072.04,"text":"這個部分的面向"},{"start":6072.04,"end":6074.04,"text":"這是一個很好的方向我們不只是做民族情感的連結"},{"start":6074.04,"end":6076.04,"text":"溯源"},{"start":6076.04,"end":6078.04,"text":"而是對於現在兩個國家"},{"start":6078.04,"end":6080.04,"text":"可能潛在的一些衝突"},{"start":6080.04,"end":6082.04,"text":"非原住民族的權益"},{"start":6082.04,"end":6084.04,"text":"也可以藉由這樣子的活動來"},{"start":6084.04,"end":6086.04,"text":"提升"},{"start":6086.04,"end":6088.04,"text":"也會獲得更多的關注"},{"start":6088.04,"end":6090.04,"text":"那我也建議未來"},{"start":6090.04,"end":6092.04,"text":"我們是一個很好的窗口"},{"start":6092.04,"end":6094.04,"text":"未來如果說可能跟菲律賓"},{"start":6094.04,"end":6096.04,"text":"或者是當地有一些"},{"start":6096.04,"end":6098.04,"text":"可以溝通的地方我覺得我們原住民族"},{"start":6098.04,"end":6100.04,"text":"如果說我們認為有一些好的管道"},{"start":6100.04,"end":6102.04,"text":"我們可以幫國家"},{"start":6102.04,"end":6104.04,"text":"做訊息的傳遞我覺得這是未來"},{"start":6104.04,"end":6106.04,"text":"我們可以繼續來努力的好不好"},{"start":6106.04,"end":6108.04,"text":"以上很麻煩謝謝"},{"start":6108.04,"end":6110.04,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":6110.04,"end":6112.04,"text":"好謝謝亮星鄉委員"},{"start":6122.04,"end":6124.04,"text":"好下一位請高清樹梅委員發言質詢"},{"start":6128.04,"end":6130.04,"text":"請副主委"},{"start":6134.04,"end":6136.04,"text":"好大家對於南島與竹行海計畫"},{"start":6136.04,"end":6138.04,"text":"就是八丹島這個案子"},{"start":6138.04,"end":6140.04,"text":"大家都有各自不同的看法"},{"start":6140.04,"end":6142.04,"text":"都很好我想請問一下這個案子"},{"start":6142.04,"end":6144.04,"text":"是原民會深層的"},{"start":6144.04,"end":6146.04,"text":"還是原文會的發向"},{"start":6148.04,"end":6150.04,"text":"最早在111年"},{"start":6150.04,"end":6152.04,"text":"是原文會"},{"start":6152.04,"end":6154.04,"text":"有跟文化部申請"},{"start":6154.04,"end":6156.04,"text":"這個預算"},{"start":6156.04,"end":6158.04,"text":"大概是1100萬"},{"start":6158.04,"end":6160.04,"text":"所以是"},{"start":6160.04,"end":6162.04,"text":"原文會的發情"},{"start":6162.04,"end":6164.04,"text":"後來在114年才又在跟會裡面"},{"start":6164.04,"end":6166.04,"text":"114年跟文化部"},{"start":6166.04,"end":6168.04,"text":"111年跟文化部"},{"start":6168.04,"end":6170.04,"text":"他們一開始啟動這個航海的"},{"start":6170.04,"end":6172.04,"text":"所以這個111年的時候"},{"start":6172.04,"end":6174.04,"text":"沒有成行"},{"start":6174.04,"end":6176.04,"text":"沒有他當時著重在"},{"start":6176.04,"end":6178.04,"text":"這個灶州"},{"start":6178.04,"end":6180.04,"text":"灶這個拼板州"},{"start":6180.04,"end":6182.04,"text":"還有一些相關的"},{"start":6182.04,"end":6184.04,"text":"所以這個計畫應該是"},{"start":6184.04,"end":6186.04,"text":"111年一直到現在是不是"},{"start":6186.04,"end":6188.04,"text":"115年完成這樣子"},{"start":6188.04,"end":6190.04,"text":"那也就很"},{"start":6190.04,"end":6192.04,"text":"很長的一個計畫"},{"start":6192.04,"end":6194.04,"text":"那請問一下這個計畫"},{"start":6194.04,"end":6196.04,"text":"你們會內開了"},{"start":6196.04,"end":6198.04,"text":"多少次會"},{"start":6202.04,"end":6204.04,"text":"最少十次"},{"start":6204.04,"end":6206.04,"text":"那也就是有完整的開會的記錄"},{"start":6206.04,"end":6208.04,"text":"請問一下完整的開會記錄"},{"start":6208.04,"end":6210.04,"text":"可不可以提供給我"},{"start":6210.04,"end":6212.04,"text":"為什麼今天會有這樣子的"},{"start":6212.04,"end":6214.04,"text":"一個專案報告是因為我覺得"},{"start":6214.04,"end":6216.04,"text":"這一次"},{"start":6216.04,"end":6218.04,"text":"我們的行動我覺得太"},{"start":6218.04,"end":6220.04,"text":"過於草率"},{"start":6220.04,"end":6222.04,"text":"因為"},{"start":6222.04,"end":6224.04,"text":"你看你們八單島的"},{"start":6224.04,"end":6226.04,"text":"執行計畫3850塊"},{"start":6226.04,"end":6228.04,"text":"50萬"},{"start":6228.04,"end":6230.04,"text":"然後專案管理行政費"},{"start":6230.04,"end":6232.04,"text":"750萬編列那麼高的"},{"start":6232.04,"end":6234.04,"text":"管理會為什麼這次的"},{"start":6234.04,"end":6236.04,"text":"計畫仍然出現重大的"},{"start":6236.04,"end":6238.04,"text":"缺失"},{"start":6238.04,"end":6240.04,"text":"然後你們報告也沒有講這個缺失"},{"start":6240.04,"end":6242.04,"text":"是什麼你們還只是說這是一個"},{"start":6242.04,"end":6244.04,"text":"非常成功的但事實上"},{"start":6244.04,"end":6246.04,"text":"你們航程的規劃"},{"start":6246.04,"end":6248.04,"text":"執行費是1150萬"},{"start":6248.04,"end":6250.04,"text":"然後舟體內部結構"},{"start":6250.04,"end":6252.04,"text":"遭海浪"},{"start":6252.04,"end":6254.04,"text":"嚴重的破壞"},{"start":6254.04,"end":6256.04,"text":"船板的座位"},{"start":6256.04,"end":6258.04,"text":"也被沖走了"},{"start":6258.04,"end":6260.04,"text":"然後船體持續的在"},{"start":6260.04,"end":6262.04,"text":"進水所以就沒有"},{"start":6262.04,"end":6264.04,"text":"辦法的划行了請問"},{"start":6264.04,"end":6266.04,"text":"一下你們挑戰的是黑潮"},{"start":6266.04,"end":6268.04,"text":"黑潮不是那麼容易"},{"start":6268.04,"end":6270.04,"text":"的你去Google一下"},{"start":6270.04,"end":6272.04,"text":"黑潮AI怎麼告訴"},{"start":6272.04,"end":6274.04,"text":"你"},{"start":6274.04,"end":6276.04,"text":"潮流是非常險峻的"},{"start":6276.04,"end":6278.04,"text":"哪是你們這樣子可以潮潮"},{"start":6278.04,"end":6280.04,"text":"耍帥當然會"},{"start":6280.04,"end":6282.04,"text":"碰到無法繼續"},{"start":6282.04,"end":6284.04,"text":"划行然後花了1000多萬"},{"start":6284.04,"end":6286.04,"text":"的規劃你們全"},{"start":6286.04,"end":6288.04,"text":"確定最安全還有應變"},{"start":6288.04,"end":6290.04,"text":"都沒有做好請問這是"},{"start":6290.04,"end":6292.04,"text":"成功嗎在今天那所有"},{"start":6292.04,"end":6294.04,"text":"的檢討報告裡面你們也沒有"},{"start":6294.04,"end":6296.04,"text":"寫啊未來你們如果還要"},{"start":6296.04,"end":6298.04,"text":"在做的話你們還會"},{"start":6298.04,"end":6300.04,"text":"面對同樣的問題啊"},{"start":6300.04,"end":6302.04,"text":"然後你們原文會給我報告是"},{"start":6302.04,"end":6304.04,"text":"說你們航程未完成"},{"start":6304.04,"end":6306.04,"text":"是因為後航的船"},{"start":6306.04,"end":6308.04,"text":"叫做青美號"},{"start":6308.04,"end":6310.04,"text":"他的發電機故障"},{"start":6310.04,"end":6312.04,"text":"請問一下到底是"},{"start":6312.04,"end":6314.04,"text":"發電機故障還是我們這個"},{"start":6314.04,"end":6316.04,"text":"船體進水"},{"start":6316.04,"end":6318.04,"text":"各位報告這個航行"},{"start":6318.04,"end":6320.04,"text":"當然是我們做了非常充分"},{"start":6320.04,"end":6322.04,"text":"的這個安全評估跟規劃"},{"start":6322.04,"end":6324.04,"text":"當然不知道挑戰黑潮是一件"},{"start":6324.04,"end":6326.04,"text":"非常嚴重的事情嗎達瑞"},{"start":6326.04,"end":6328.04,"text":"主任的前輩主先"},{"start":6328.04,"end":6330.04,"text":"應該都清楚知道啊"},{"start":6330.04,"end":6332.04,"text":"可能跟我們計畫上當然有一點落差"},{"start":6332.04,"end":6334.04,"text":"那請問一下這樣子的一個變化"},{"start":6334.04,"end":6336.04,"text":"有沒有在你們的規劃跟"},{"start":6336.04,"end":6338.04,"text":"討論範圍之內"},{"start":6338.04,"end":6340.04,"text":"你們我再講一次你們挑戰的是"},{"start":6340.04,"end":6342.04,"text":"黑潮這個不是"},{"start":6342.04,"end":6344.04,"text":"普通的一個洋流"},{"start":6344.04,"end":6346.04,"text":"我們在籌辦的過程"},{"start":6346.04,"end":6348.04,"text":"當然這應變的機制是有充分"},{"start":6348.04,"end":6350.04,"text":"的討論啊請問一下"},{"start":6350.04,"end":6352.04,"text":"到底是你們航航的船"},{"start":6352.04,"end":6354.04,"text":"發電機故障還是"},{"start":6354.04,"end":6356.04,"text":"船體進水還是你們"},{"start":6356.04,"end":6358.04,"text":"發現黑潮不是那麼好容易"},{"start":6358.04,"end":6360.04,"text":"挑戰的"},{"start":6360.04,"end":6362.04,"text":"因為他們發出去以後發現到"},{"start":6362.04,"end":6364.04,"text":"那個湧浪比你想的還要"},{"start":6364.04,"end":6366.04,"text":"發現倒是就滑出去才"},{"start":6366.04,"end":6368.04,"text":"發現嗎難道你們在規劃"},{"start":6368.04,"end":6370.04,"text":"的時候就不會想到嗎"},{"start":6370.04,"end":6372.04,"text":"是覺得是可以的啦"},{"start":6372.04,"end":6374.04,"text":"我今天"},{"start":6374.04,"end":6376.04,"text":"不想看到我們"},{"start":6376.04,"end":6378.04,"text":"在這邊是針鋒相對"},{"start":6378.04,"end":6380.04,"text":"我們要的是花了"},{"start":6380.04,"end":6382.04,"text":"三千八百五十萬的"},{"start":6382.04,"end":6384.04,"text":"錢有沒有完整的"},{"start":6384.04,"end":6386.04,"text":"規劃而今天要你們做"},{"start":6386.04,"end":6388.04,"text":"專案報告就是希望你們能夠"},{"start":6388.04,"end":6390.04,"text":"記取教訓下次不要"},{"start":6390.04,"end":6392.04,"text":"再有這樣的事情發生"},{"start":6392.04,"end":6394.04,"text":"當然做文化的交流傳承"},{"start":6394.04,"end":6396.04,"text":"文化平衡中"},{"start":6396.04,"end":6398.04,"text":"來自達悟族人不是"},{"start":6398.04,"end":6400.04,"text":"就一艘啦好多艘啦"},{"start":6400.04,"end":6402.04,"text":"對不對而且"},{"start":6402.04,"end":6404.04,"text":"你們跟發單的交流也不是"},{"start":6404.04,"end":6406.04,"text":"三百年來走次啦"},{"start":6406.04,"end":6408.04,"text":"有幾次了"},{"start":6408.04,"end":6410.04,"text":"所以你們竟然要做這麼大的一個"},{"start":6410.04,"end":6412.04,"text":"政治上的宣示"},{"start":6412.04,"end":6414.04,"text":"你們總是要有一些"},{"start":6414.04,"end":6416.04,"text":"規劃"},{"start":6416.04,"end":6418.04,"text":"你們有一些政治上的宣示"},{"start":6418.04,"end":6420.04,"text":"或政治上的意圖"},{"start":6420.04,"end":6422.04,"text":"就是剛剛幾個委員講的"},{"start":6422.04,"end":6424.04,"text":"你們要有你們的功能"},{"start":6424.04,"end":6426.04,"text":"未來在哪裡"},{"start":6426.04,"end":6428.04,"text":"今天你們的報告完全沒有"},{"start":6428.04,"end":6430.04,"text":"然後我覺得這個真相"},{"start":6430.04,"end":6432.04,"text":"也沒有看到就是你剛剛跟我講的"},{"start":6432.04,"end":6434.04,"text":"滑出去我們就發現"},{"start":6434.04,"end":6436.04,"text":"哇這個洋流非常的大"},{"start":6436.04,"end":6438.04,"text":"所以船體進水了"},{"start":6438.04,"end":6440.04,"text":"所以造成說他們安全第一"},{"start":6440.04,"end":6441.04,"text":"所以先把人先"},{"start":6441.04,"end":6443.04,"text":"我當然了解安全第一"},{"start":6443.04,"end":6445.04,"text":"但是你們在滑出去之前都不知道"},{"start":6445.04,"end":6447.04,"text":"那海潮的洋流是這麼嚴重的嗎"},{"start":6447.04,"end":6449.04,"text":"是有評估是有評估"},{"start":6449.04,"end":6451.04,"text":"那評估了為什麼你們的護航船"},{"start":6451.04,"end":6453.04,"text":"還會發電機沒電"},{"start":6453.04,"end":6455.04,"text":"好啦"},{"start":6455.04,"end":6457.04,"text":"副主委今天不要在這邊了"},{"start":6457.04,"end":6459.04,"text":"我現在要凸顯的就是"},{"start":6459.04,"end":6461.04,"text":"你們根本沒有"},{"start":6461.04,"end":6463.04,"text":"好好的規劃"},{"start":6463.04,"end":6465.04,"text":"你們只是想要完成"},{"start":6465.04,"end":6467.04,"text":"這件事情你知道這件事情"},{"start":6467.04,"end":6469.04,"text":"如你剛剛所說的"},{"start":6469.04,"end":6471.04,"text":"達悟的族人是他的"},{"start":6471.04,"end":6473.04,"text":"安危而且裡面"},{"start":6473.04,"end":6475.04,"text":"裡面的滑船的人不全是達悟族人"},{"start":6475.04,"end":6477.04,"text":"他還有漢族的人"},{"start":6477.04,"end":6479.04,"text":"還有其他的人"},{"start":6479.04,"end":6481.04,"text":"如果你們真的是所有的"},{"start":6481.04,"end":6483.04,"text":"都要我們男女達悟族人"},{"start":6483.04,"end":6485.04,"text":"應該規劃好"},{"start":6485.04,"end":6487.04,"text":"訓練好所有都是達悟族人"},{"start":6487.04,"end":6489.04,"text":"一起參與這件事情"},{"start":6489.04,"end":6491.04,"text":"不是更有意義嗎"},{"start":6491.04,"end":6493.04,"text":"好嗎謝謝"},{"start":6495.04,"end":6497.04,"text":"我再講第二個"},{"start":6497.04,"end":6499.04,"text":"那請你們"},{"start":6499.04,"end":6501.04,"text":"請你們再把你們的具體的檢討報告"},{"start":6501.04,"end":6503.04,"text":"剛剛有非常多的委員"},{"start":6503.04,"end":6505.04,"text":"洪祿委員也好廖先祥委員也好"},{"start":6505.04,"end":6507.04,"text":"都想到你們未來"},{"start":6507.04,"end":6509.04,"text":"還要做些什麼事情"},{"start":6509.04,"end":6511.04,"text":"我希望人民會"},{"start":6511.04,"end":6513.04,"text":"你們做事情的時候不要雷聲大"},{"start":6513.04,"end":6515.04,"text":"然後雨點小"},{"start":6515.04,"end":6517.04,"text":"然後後續的"},{"start":6517.04,"end":6519.04,"text":"也沒有想好"},{"start":6519.04,"end":6521.04,"text":"每次想做什麼就做什麼"},{"start":6521.04,"end":6523.04,"text":"我覺得人民會的預算"},{"start":6523.04,"end":6525.04,"text":"本來就很少了"},{"start":6525.04,"end":6527.04,"text":"我覺得人民會在操作"},{"start":6527.04,"end":6529.04,"text":"自己族人的事情的時候"},{"start":6529.04,"end":6531.04,"text":"要專業一點好不好"},{"start":6531.04,"end":6533.04,"text":"另外我要跟您談的是"},{"start":6533.04,"end":6535.04,"text":"原住民族廣播電台"},{"start":6535.04,"end":6537.04,"text":"基地台的設置"},{"start":6537.04,"end":6539.04,"text":"剛剛洪祿委員也說了"},{"start":6539.04,"end":6541.04,"text":"宣傳族人的事物"},{"start":6541.04,"end":6543.04,"text":"你們應該要非常的上手"},{"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nd":6757.04,"text":"除了梅山站以外因為梅山站的確"},{"start":6757.04,"end":6759.04,"text":"有很大很大的問題因為用地取得"},{"start":6759.04,"end":6761.04,"text":"包括它的整個地形"},{"start":6761.04,"end":6763.04,"text":"在整個建構上是非常困難的"},{"start":6763.04,"end":6765.04,"text":"那我們現在在判"},{"start":6765.04,"end":6767.04,"text":"判到梅山可能就沒辦法做"},{"start":6767.04,"end":6769.04,"text":"因為時間的關係"},{"start":6769.04,"end":6771.04,"text":"我們必須要再延宕十年"},{"start":6771.04,"end":6773.04,"text":"這是族人的"},{"start":6773.04,"end":6775.04,"text":"收拾權益"},{"start":6775.04,"end":6777.04,"text":"另外不好意思稍微再給我一點點時間"},{"start":6777.04,"end":6779.04,"text":"我要問的是今天我們有原住民"},{"start":6779.04,"end":6781.04,"text":"基本法的宣法"},{"start":6781.04,"end":6783.04,"text":"那麼這個法從九十四年"},{"start":6783.04,"end":6785.04,"text":"我上任以後我們推動到現在"},{"start":6785.04,"end":6787.04,"text":"沒有機會"},{"start":6787.04,"end":6789.04,"text":"依照現在族人的"},{"start":6789.04,"end":6791.04,"text":"需求我們來通同檢討"},{"start":6791.04,"end":6793.04,"text":"今天終於有了"},{"start":6793.04,"end":6795.04,"text":"那麼我也提出了"},{"start":6795.04,"end":6797.04,"text":"十五條的修正條文"},{"start":6797.04,"end":6799.04,"text":"約戰全法的四成"},{"start":6799.04,"end":6801.04,"text":"這涵蓋了民族會議"},{"start":6801.04,"end":6803.04,"text":"自治制度中和發展"},{"start":6803.04,"end":6805.04,"text":"基金跟傳統領域還有"},{"start":6805.04,"end":6807.04,"text":"都會原住民的權益等等重要"},{"start":6807.04,"end":6809.04,"text":"還有一題請問一下副主委"},{"start":6809.04,"end":6811.04,"text":"原民會你們支持嗎"},{"start":6811.04,"end":6813.04,"text":"你們支持修法嗎"},{"start":6813.04,"end":6815.04,"text":"支持但是有些條文"},{"start":6815.04,"end":6817.04,"text":"我們都有在檢視"},{"start":6817.04,"end":6819.04,"text":"到時候我們再逐條審查"},{"start":6819.04,"end":6821.04,"text":"好我今天要先跟你講的是"},{"start":6821.04,"end":6823.04,"text":"我一直在講的中和發展基金"},{"start":6823.04,"end":6825.04,"text":"我要請教你三個問題"},{"start":6825.04,"end":6827.04,"text":"很快很快第一個"},{"start":6827.04,"end":6829.04,"text":"有人認為中和發展基金目前的"},{"start":6829.04,"end":6831.04,"text":"累積短錯了"},{"start":6831.04,"end":6833.04,"text":"六十八點七億是"},{"start":6833.04,"end":6835.04,"text":"因為原民會你今年不善造成的"},{"start":6835.04,"end":6837.04,"text":"你同意這樣子的說法嗎"},{"start":6837.04,"end":6839.04,"text":"我想主要還是"},{"start":6839.04,"end":6841.04,"text":"進法補償的"},{"start":6841.04,"end":6843.04,"text":"所以是你們經營不善造成的嗎"},{"start":6843.04,"end":6847.04,"text":"累積短錯那麼多錢"},{"start":6847.04,"end":6849.04,"text":"應該不是啦"},{"start":6849.04,"end":6851.04,"text":"主要還是進法補償的機會"},{"start":6851.04,"end":6853.04,"text":"好第二"},{"start":6853.04,"end":6855.04,"text":"有人認為這個基金的業務不多"},{"start":6855.04,"end":6857.04,"text":"所以呢不需要每年"},{"start":6857.04,"end":6859.04,"text":"撥補二十三億"},{"start":6859.04,"end":6861.04,"text":"你同意嗎"},{"start":6861.04,"end":6863.04,"text":"我覺得依法"},{"start":6863.04,"end":6865.04,"text":"依法應該要到多少的經費"},{"start":6865.04,"end":6867.04,"text":"很好尤其"},{"start":6867.04,"end":6869.04,"text":"一百一四五年的時候"},{"start":6869.04,"end":6871.04,"text":"我做過主決議"},{"start":6871.04,"end":6873.04,"text":"希望我們的行政院"},{"start":6873.04,"end":6875.04,"text":"每年能夠二十三億"},{"start":6875.04,"end":6877.04,"text":"撥補進來對不對"},{"start":6877.04,"end":6879.04,"text":"好第三個"},{"start":6879.04,"end":6881.04,"text":"也有人認為未來兩年"},{"start":6881.04,"end":6883.04,"text":"原本要還給族人的"},{"start":6883.04,"end":6885.04,"text":"六十三億他只要"},{"start":6885.04,"end":6887.04,"text":"還十億就可以了原民會"},{"start":6887.04,"end":6889.04,"text":"你同意這件事情嗎"},{"start":6889.04,"end":6891.04,"text":"我們是持續"},{"start":6891.04,"end":6893.04,"text":"持續跟主總這邊來協調"},{"start":6893.04,"end":6895.04,"text":"說因為當時也有立法院的決議"},{"start":6895.04,"end":6897.04,"text":"我們希望能夠儘快的能夠"},{"start":6897.04,"end":6899.04,"text":"很好我剛剛以上講的"},{"start":6899.04,"end":6901.04,"text":"這三個我的問題呢全部都是"},{"start":6901.04,"end":6903.04,"text":"行政院的見解"},{"start":6903.04,"end":6905.04,"text":"行政院的秘書長就在這個地方"},{"start":6905.04,"end":6907.04,"text":"回答我這樣的問題"},{"start":6907.04,"end":6909.04,"text":"當然主計總處說"},{"start":6909.04,"end":6911.04,"text":"每年明年"},{"start":6911.04,"end":6913.04,"text":"還給族人十億就好了"},{"start":6913.04,"end":6915.04,"text":"當然你也說了"},{"start":6915.04,"end":6917.04,"text":"這不符合立法院的主決議"},{"start":6917.04,"end":6919.04,"text":"這個主決議也是我做的"},{"start":6919.04,"end":6921.04,"text":"所以我可以在這邊"},{"start":6921.04,"end":6923.04,"text":"毫不客氣的說"},{"start":6923.04,"end":6925.04,"text":"行政院你們就是"},{"start":6925.04,"end":6927.04,"text":"要霸凌族人"},{"start":6927.04,"end":6929.04,"text":"你們就是在霸凌原民會"},{"start":6929.04,"end":6931.04,"text":"原民會給你們"},{"start":6931.04,"end":6933.04,"text":"那麼多的公文"},{"start":6933.04,"end":6935.04,"text":"再次的請求你們請你們"},{"start":6935.04,"end":6937.04,"text":"撥補完整中發"},{"start":6937.04,"end":6939.04,"text":"基金的預算"},{"start":6939.04,"end":6941.04,"text":"要不然中發基金"},{"start":6941.04,"end":6943.04,"text":"真的不能夠做事了"},{"start":6943.04,"end":6945.04,"text":"但是他只給"},{"start":6945.04,"end":6947.04,"text":"十億我希望今天"},{"start":6947.04,"end":6949.04,"text":"這是我在這裡最後一次的質詢"},{"start":6949.04,"end":6951.04,"text":"行政院長沒有"},{"start":6951.04,"end":6953.04,"text":"聽到我今天在這裡質詢的話"},{"start":6953.04,"end":6955.04,"text":"還有族人"},{"start":6955.04,"end":6957.04,"text":"我們應該憤怒"},{"start":6957.04,"end":6959.04,"text":"立法院的主決議"},{"start":6959.04,"end":6961.04,"text":"而且呢這個基金"},{"start":6961.04,"end":6963.04,"text":"剛剛副主委講過了"},{"start":6963.04,"end":6965.04,"text":"是我們族人"},{"start":6965.04,"end":6967.04,"text":"立法通過的進發補償"},{"start":6967.04,"end":6969.04,"text":"本來是三萬塊"},{"start":6969.04,"end":6971.04,"text":"現在多了三萬變六萬"},{"start":6971.04,"end":6973.04,"text":"然後"},{"start":6973.04,"end":6975.04,"text":"行政院不想要旅行"},{"start":6975.04,"end":6977.04,"text":"所以就在中和發展基金"},{"start":6977.04,"end":6979.04,"text":"裡面給我們研發嗎"},{"start":6979.04,"end":6981.04,"text":"然後修理"},{"start":6981.04,"end":6983.04,"text":"我們的原民會嗎"},{"start":6983.04,"end":6985.04,"text":"讓原民會在其他的業務上"},{"start":6985.04,"end":6987.04,"text":"不能夠做事嗎是這樣子嗎"},{"start":6987.04,"end":6989.04,"text":"如果是這樣子的話"},{"start":6989.04,"end":6991.04,"text":"行政院長你太可惡了"},{"start":6991.04,"end":6993.04,"text":"我希望今天"},{"start":6993.04,"end":6995.04,"text":"這也是我最後在這邊講到"},{"start":6995.04,"end":6997.04,"text":"中發基金的最後一次質詢"},{"start":6997.04,"end":6999.04,"text":"原民會要硬起來"},{"start":6999.04,"end":7001.04,"text":"您剛剛說過了主決議"},{"start":7001.04,"end":7003.04,"text":"已經做了中和"},{"start":7003.04,"end":7005.04,"text":"發展基金本來就"},{"start":7005.04,"end":7007.04,"text":"應該要撥補"},{"start":7007.04,"end":7009.04,"text":"完整"},{"start":7009.04,"end":7011.04,"text":"如果我們今天行政院"},{"start":7011.04,"end":7013.04,"text":"不撥補完整"},{"start":7013.04,"end":7015.04,"text":"那做多少"},{"start":7015.04,"end":7017.04,"text":"的主決議也沒有用"},{"start":7017.04,"end":7019.04,"text":"就算我在原基法"},{"start":7019.04,"end":7021.04,"text":"裡面要修這個"},{"start":7021.04,"end":7023.04,"text":"我相信他也會不附屬"},{"start":7023.04,"end":7025.04,"text":"所以原民會我們一起加油"},{"start":7025.04,"end":7027.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":7027.04,"end":7029.04,"text":"我們一起加油好不好"},{"start":7029.04,"end":7031.04,"text":"相信院裡面也會考量原民會的處理"},{"start":7031.04,"end":7033.04,"text":"院長你要不要這個大聲的"},{"start":7033.04,"end":7035.04,"text":"跟行政院長喊話"},{"start":7035.04,"end":7037.04,"text":"卓院長希望你聽到我們的聲音"},{"start":7037.04,"end":7039.04,"text":"中和發展基金"},{"start":7039.04,"end":7041.04,"text":"麻煩撥補完整"},{"start":7041.04,"end":7043.04,"text":"他會按照我們的需求"},{"start":7043.04,"end":7045.04,"text":"來配合"},{"start":7045.04,"end":7047.04,"text":"我剛剛已經問你三個問題了"},{"start":7047.04,"end":7049.04,"text":"你都說第一不是原民會的責任"},{"start":7049.04,"end":7051.04,"text":"不是你們金銀不散"},{"start":7051.04,"end":7053.04,"text":"然後也不是因為你們基金業務不多"},{"start":7053.04,"end":7055.04,"text":"所以不需要這個錢"},{"start":7055.04,"end":7057.04,"text":"然後"},{"start":7057.04,"end":7059.04,"text":"主決議也做了你剛剛也回答"},{"start":7059.04,"end":7061.04,"text":"我的問題了請勇敢的跟"},{"start":7061.04,"end":7063.04,"text":"卓院長說"},{"start":7063.04,"end":7065.04,"text":"請你不要再霸凌族人了"},{"start":7065.04,"end":7067.04,"text":"好嗎謝謝"},{"start":7073.04,"end":7075.04,"text":"下一位請林一金委員"},{"start":7075.04,"end":7077.04,"text":"發言資訊"},{"start":7079.04,"end":7081.04,"text":"慢慢來"},{"start":7089.04,"end":7091.04,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":7091.04,"end":7093.04,"text":"有請副主委"},{"start":7093.04,"end":7095.04,"text":"原民會副主委"},{"start":7097.04,"end":7099.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":7099.04,"end":7101.04,"text":"副主委好今天很高興"},{"start":7101.04,"end":7103.04,"text":"看到本席長期"},{"start":7103.04,"end":7105.04,"text":"關心的希拉亞族"},{"start":7105.04,"end":7107.04,"text":"證明終於要在"},{"start":7107.04,"end":7109.04,"text":"今天實現"},{"start":7109.04,"end":7111.04,"text":"行政院"},{"start":7111.04,"end":7113.04,"text":"會過去嗎"},{"start":7113.04,"end":7115.04,"text":"可是我們現在正在吵架"},{"start":7115.04,"end":7117.04,"text":"不曉得等一下民族"},{"start":7117.04,"end":7119.04,"text":"會不會有什麼特別的典禮"},{"start":7119.04,"end":7121.04,"text":"我也會希望去見證"},{"start":7121.04,"end":7123.04,"text":"今天我就儘速"},{"start":7123.04,"end":7125.04,"text":"來問幾個問題"},{"start":7125.04,"end":7127.04,"text":"就是有關於整體比姆族"},{"start":7127.04,"end":7129.04,"text":"族群未來"},{"start":7129.04,"end":7131.04,"text":"一些後續權益的問題"},{"start":7131.04,"end":7133.04,"text":"首先"},{"start":7133.04,"end":7135.04,"text":"希拉亞族人"},{"start":7135.04,"end":7137.04,"text":"他接下來要面臨登記身份的"},{"start":7137.04,"end":7139.04,"text":"流程"},{"start":7139.04,"end":7141.04,"text":"不過我們可以看到像台南市"},{"start":7141.04,"end":7143.04,"text":"他已經早就進行了"},{"start":7143.04,"end":7145.04,"text":"守住計"},{"start":7145.04,"end":7147.04,"text":"到今年六月底"},{"start":7147.04,"end":7149.04,"text":"有守住計的"},{"start":7149.04,"end":7151.04,"text":"有1萬1828人"},{"start":7151.04,"end":7153.04,"text":"本席的疑問是說"},{"start":7153.04,"end":7155.04,"text":"這些人再來還要再跑一趟嗎"},{"start":7155.04,"end":7157.04,"text":"還有就是說"},{"start":7157.04,"end":7159.04,"text":"之前本席有參加"},{"start":7159.04,"end":7161.04,"text":"新化的希拉亞族"},{"start":7161.04,"end":7163.04,"text":"的活動"},{"start":7163.04,"end":7165.04,"text":"那時候台南市原民會主委"},{"start":7165.04,"end":7167.04,"text":"白慧蘭主委有說"},{"start":7167.04,"end":7169.04,"text":"希拉亞族已經是台南市"},{"start":7169.04,"end":7171.04,"text":"的原住民"},{"start":7171.04,"end":7173.04,"text":"住計的資料是同步建置"},{"start":7173.04,"end":7175.04,"text":"在護正系統"},{"start":7175.04,"end":7177.04,"text":"總統頒布後"},{"start":7177.04,"end":7179.04,"text":"法律原住民"},{"start":7179.04,"end":7181.04,"text":"法律保障"},{"start":7181.04,"end":7183.04,"text":"配合中央政策"},{"start":7183.04,"end":7185.04,"text":"已經登記的會直接轉正"},{"start":7185.04,"end":7187.04,"text":"本席的理解是"},{"start":7187.04,"end":7189.04,"text":"這會省去在民族合併"},{"start":7189.04,"end":7191.04,"text":"還要再跑一趟護正事務所"},{"start":7191.04,"end":7193.04,"text":"再去登記這些程序"},{"start":7193.04,"end":7195.04,"text":"對族人當然是"},{"start":7195.04,"end":7197.04,"text":"比較便利"},{"start":7197.04,"end":7199.04,"text":"所以中央的原民會是不是"},{"start":7199.04,"end":7201.04,"text":"有辦法"},{"start":7201.04,"end":7203.04,"text":"想想一些辦法來簡化"},{"start":7203.04,"end":7205.04,"text":"申請跟登記的流程"},{"start":7205.04,"end":7207.04,"text":"並對外說明"},{"start":7207.04,"end":7209.04,"text":"副主委"},{"start":7209.04,"end":7211.04,"text":"我剛剛也有報告說我們事實上開過兩次"},{"start":7211.04,"end":7213.04,"text":"的這種會議就是跟地方"},{"start":7213.04,"end":7215.04,"text":"要護正單位要登記"},{"start":7215.04,"end":7217.04,"text":"的這個程序那簡化流程"},{"start":7217.04,"end":7219.04,"text":"當然也是我們在討論的議題裡面"},{"start":7219.04,"end":7221.04,"text":"這裡面有一些就是說"},{"start":7221.04,"end":7223.04,"text":"在當時在台南有登記的他們"},{"start":7223.04,"end":7225.04,"text":"並不全然都是希拉亞族"},{"start":7225.04,"end":7227.04,"text":"所以可能"},{"start":7227.04,"end":7229.04,"text":"也可能不是像委員講說"},{"start":7229.04,"end":7231.04,"text":"都一起都可以做什麼樣的處理"},{"start":7231.04,"end":7233.04,"text":"當然我們會從簡便的方式去進行"},{"start":7233.04,"end":7235.04,"text":"看能不能"},{"start":7235.04,"end":7237.04,"text":"簡靜"},{"start":7237.04,"end":7239.04,"text":"那個族人在這個過程裡面"},{"start":7239.04,"end":7241.04,"text":"你的意思是說他們還要再"},{"start":7241.04,"end":7243.04,"text":"做一次沒有我們會"},{"start":7243.04,"end":7245.04,"text":"看看是什麼樣的狀況好不好"},{"start":7245.04,"end":7247.04,"text":"事實上簡便"},{"start":7247.04,"end":7249.04,"text":"的這件事情我們事實上有在考慮"},{"start":7249.04,"end":7251.04,"text":"這樣應該怎麼樣讓他們更"},{"start":7251.04,"end":7253.04,"text":"不用那麼那麼複雜來做"},{"start":7253.04,"end":7255.04,"text":"這個登記的動作好謝謝"},{"start":7255.04,"end":7257.04,"text":"就是本席建議就是還盡量以"},{"start":7257.04,"end":7259.04,"text":"民為主啦"},{"start":7259.04,"end":7261.04,"text":"那也請人民會思考一下"},{"start":7261.04,"end":7263.04,"text":"怎麼跟台南市或屏東市"},{"start":7263.04,"end":7265.04,"text":"他們這些有先進行這個"},{"start":7265.04,"end":7267.04,"text":"護正資料的登記"},{"start":7267.04,"end":7269.04,"text":"有熟註記的這些縣市也溝通一下好不好"},{"start":7269.04,"end":7271.04,"text":"因為這次大概就是花蓮"},{"start":7271.04,"end":7273.04,"text":"台東屏東台南"},{"start":7273.04,"end":7275.04,"text":"好像再上去一點"},{"start":7275.04,"end":7277.04,"text":"這個區塊大概都會有這個"},{"start":7277.04,"end":7279.04,"text":"身分證據的問題"},{"start":7279.04,"end":7281.04,"text":"好那就跟地方政府要做一些溝通"},{"start":7281.04,"end":7283.04,"text":"有一致性的做法"},{"start":7283.04,"end":7285.04,"text":"那好下一個議題就是有關於教育"},{"start":7285.04,"end":7287.04,"text":"就是除了台南市政府已經完成"},{"start":7287.04,"end":7289.04,"text":"這個新版的原住民族學生"},{"start":7289.04,"end":7291.04,"text":"獎助學金申請"},{"start":7291.04,"end":7293.04,"text":"作業須知的整並"},{"start":7293.04,"end":7295.04,"text":"那明確並入這個"},{"start":7295.04,"end":7297.04,"text":"平埔原住民族學生外"},{"start":7297.04,"end":7299.04,"text":"那其他地方政府都辦都還在"},{"start":7299.04,"end":7301.04,"text":"救治嘛那沒有將這個"},{"start":7301.04,"end":7303.04,"text":"平埔原住民族的權益納入"},{"start":7303.04,"end":7305.04,"text":"這個獎補助的制度"},{"start":7305.04,"end":7307.04,"text":"那全國現在各縣市"},{"start":7307.04,"end":7309.04,"text":"這個存在的標準不一"},{"start":7309.04,"end":7311.04,"text":"那獎助辦法也不同"},{"start":7311.04,"end":7313.04,"text":"那恐怕會造成跨縣市的"},{"start":7313.04,"end":7315.04,"text":"學生這個權益有落差"},{"start":7315.04,"end":7317.04,"text":"那也嚴重違反所謂的"},{"start":7317.04,"end":7319.04,"text":"憲判意旨跟立法目的"},{"start":7319.04,"end":7321.04,"text":"比如說"},{"start":7321.04,"end":7323.04,"text":"台北市的"},{"start":7323.04,"end":7325.04,"text":"高雄市的北邊的行政區"},{"start":7325.04,"end":7327.04,"text":"像這個"},{"start":7327.04,"end":7329.04,"text":"茄町啊湖內"},{"start":7329.04,"end":7331.04,"text":"很多的學生其實都到台南市來讀書"},{"start":7331.04,"end":7333.04,"text":"可是他們可能因為"},{"start":7333.04,"end":7335.04,"text":"沒有涉及台南市"},{"start":7335.04,"end":7337.04,"text":"那高雄又沒有針對平埔原住民族"},{"start":7337.04,"end":7339.04,"text":"設這個獎助學金"},{"start":7339.04,"end":7341.04,"text":"那就會產生落差"},{"start":7341.04,"end":7343.04,"text":"那我來舉這個例子"},{"start":7343.04,"end":7345.04,"text":"所以本席認為說我們原民會"},{"start":7345.04,"end":7347.04,"text":"作為主管機關我們不能"},{"start":7347.04,"end":7349.04,"text":"坐視這個地方制度來有點失衡"},{"start":7349.04,"end":7351.04,"text":"我們應該要主導"},{"start":7351.04,"end":7353.04,"text":"有全國一致性的這個指引"},{"start":7353.04,"end":7355.04,"text":"或者是法治協調"},{"start":7355.04,"end":7357.04,"text":"來為付這個平埔原住民"},{"start":7357.04,"end":7359.04,"text":"他這個學生獎助學金的這個權益"},{"start":7359.04,"end":7361.04,"text":"那雖然這是地方事務"},{"start":7361.04,"end":7363.04,"text":"可是本席也是要建議原民會"},{"start":7363.04,"end":7365.04,"text":"我們應該要督導"},{"start":7365.04,"end":7367.04,"text":"跟來盡力協調各地方政府"},{"start":7367.04,"end":7369.04,"text":"這個原民"},{"start":7369.04,"end":7371.04,"text":"原民的相關局處"},{"start":7371.04,"end":7373.04,"text":"我覺得還是建議可以比照"},{"start":7373.04,"end":7375.04,"text":"台南市政府的模式喔"},{"start":7375.04,"end":7377.04,"text":"那由原民會來進行所謂的"},{"start":7377.04,"end":7379.04,"text":"必要的這個行政指導"},{"start":7379.04,"end":7381.04,"text":"那完成這個制度的檢討跟修正"},{"start":7381.04,"end":7383.04,"text":"對於這個議題副主委你怎麼看"},{"start":7383.04,"end":7385.04,"text":"我想我們會彙整相關的這個訊息"},{"start":7385.04,"end":7387.04,"text":"不管台南已經發了或其他縣"},{"start":7387.04,"end":7389.04,"text":"是什麼情況這裡面一個很重要"},{"start":7389.04,"end":7391.04,"text":"他是涉及到地方制度法"},{"start":7391.04,"end":7393.04,"text":"他們願意以現在的法條來講"},{"start":7393.04,"end":7395.04,"text":"按照平埔住民身分法"},{"start":7395.04,"end":7397.04,"text":"的23條我們是要再來"},{"start":7397.04,"end":7399.04,"text":"做相關權益的這個規範"},{"start":7399.04,"end":7401.04,"text":"那這個地方他們"},{"start":7401.04,"end":7403.04,"text":"已經先行做這些事情"},{"start":7403.04,"end":7405.04,"text":"我們當然是支持"},{"start":7405.04,"end":7407.04,"text":"但是其他縣市是不是"},{"start":7407.04,"end":7409.04,"text":"應該比照辦理我們再來協調"},{"start":7409.04,"end":7411.04,"text":"因為這個關係到"},{"start":7411.04,"end":7413.04,"text":"裁員的問題因為人數不曉得"},{"start":7413.04,"end":7415.04,"text":"多少你以下說你們都要辦"},{"start":7415.04,"end":7417.04,"text":"等一下說進來說3萬人他說我不可能有這個錢"},{"start":7417.04,"end":7419.04,"text":"現在不知道會有多少"},{"start":7419.04,"end":7421.04,"text":"所以這個我們會整理以後"},{"start":7421.04,"end":7423.04,"text":"然後再跟地方政府"},{"start":7423.04,"end":7425.04,"text":"來協調說如果他們要做這件事"},{"start":7425.04,"end":7427.04,"text":"我們可以比照台南市先行來做"},{"start":7427.04,"end":7429.04,"text":"如果說可以知道人數的話"},{"start":7429.04,"end":7431.04,"text":"可以先做這件事情"},{"start":7431.04,"end":7433.04,"text":"我們來研議"},{"start":7433.04,"end":7435.04,"text":"謝謝副主委謝謝"},{"start":7435.04,"end":7437.04,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":7443.04,"end":7445.04,"text":"我們下一位我想先跟委員會報告"},{"start":7445.04,"end":7447.04,"text":"待李柏懿委員詢答完後"},{"start":7447.04,"end":7449.04,"text":"處理臨時提案"},{"start":7449.04,"end":7451.04,"text":"那我們下一位請吳奇明委員發言質詢"},{"start":7455.04,"end":7457.04,"text":"吳奇明委員發言"},{"start":7461.04,"end":7463.04,"text":"好主席我們一位同仁"},{"start":7463.04,"end":7465.04,"text":"請我們的副主委"},{"start":7467.04,"end":7469.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":7469.04,"end":7471.04,"text":"副主委好"},{"start":7471.04,"end":7473.04,"text":"當初我們山陰縣"},{"start":7473.04,"end":7475.04,"text":"山陰檢疫縣當初我們"},{"start":7475.04,"end":7477.04,"text":"共同努力爭取"},{"start":7477.04,"end":7479.04,"text":"就是原住民的圖騰"},{"start":7479.04,"end":7481.04,"text":"打造一個原住民的圖騰"},{"start":7481.04,"end":7483.04,"text":"就是在我們的台北大學"},{"start":7483.04,"end":7485.04,"text":"那現在都已經設立了"},{"start":7485.04,"end":7487.04,"text":"那整個車廂"},{"start":7487.04,"end":7489.04,"text":"外面的圖騰"},{"start":7489.04,"end":7491.04,"text":"的彩繪類車"},{"start":7491.04,"end":7493.04,"text":"也都一一實現"},{"start":7493.04,"end":7495.04,"text":"那我們在我們新北"},{"start":7495.04,"end":7497.04,"text":"新北目前搭乘"},{"start":7497.04,"end":7499.04,"text":"那個T-Pass"},{"start":7499.04,"end":7501.04,"text":"T-Pass"},{"start":7501.04,"end":7503.04,"text":"那個人數現在北北基"},{"start":7503.04,"end":7505.04,"text":"所調的資料"},{"start":7505.04,"end":7507.04,"text":"有50多萬人"},{"start":7507.04,"end":7509.04,"text":"那未來我們新北"},{"start":7509.04,"end":7511.04,"text":"是有很多的"},{"start":7511.04,"end":7513.04,"text":"新路線那未來是不是可以朝"},{"start":7513.04,"end":7515.04,"text":"山陰縣這個"},{"start":7515.04,"end":7517.04,"text":"路線的"},{"start":7517.04,"end":7519.04,"text":"圖騰還有那個彩繪"},{"start":7519.04,"end":7521.04,"text":"是不是可以比照"},{"start":7521.04,"end":7523.04,"text":"我們來努力來研議看"},{"start":7523.04,"end":7525.04,"text":"朝這個方向來做"},{"start":7525.04,"end":7527.04,"text":"因為這是"},{"start":7527.04,"end":7529.04,"text":"先導我們原住民是最快的"},{"start":7529.04,"end":7531.04,"text":"因為你看啊"},{"start":7531.04,"end":7533.04,"text":"透過這個大眾檢疫系統是最方便的"},{"start":7533.04,"end":7535.04,"text":"對你看一個月就50多萬"},{"start":7535.04,"end":7537.04,"text":"那50多萬人"},{"start":7537.04,"end":7539.04,"text":"在搭乘那真的是"},{"start":7539.04,"end":7541.04,"text":"滿驚人的"},{"start":7541.04,"end":7543.04,"text":"那未來你要推廣原住民"},{"start":7543.04,"end":7545.04,"text":"的文化也好原住民"},{"start":7545.04,"end":7547.04,"text":"的種種"},{"start":7547.04,"end":7549.04,"text":"的先導"},{"start":7549.04,"end":7551.04,"text":"都是非常快的速度"},{"start":7551.04,"end":7553.04,"text":"那未來應該是朝這個方向"},{"start":7553.04,"end":7555.04,"text":"來努力"},{"start":7555.04,"end":7557.04,"text":"那本來比較關心的就是"},{"start":7557.04,"end":7559.04,"text":"我們以前我們"},{"start":7559.04,"end":7561.04,"text":"都常常在"},{"start":7561.04,"end":7563.04,"text":"在推動的就是一個"},{"start":7563.04,"end":7565.04,"text":"聚會所"},{"start":7565.04,"end":7567.04,"text":"那在新北我們原住民"},{"start":7567.04,"end":7569.04,"text":"的人數也算是"},{"start":7569.04,"end":7571.04,"text":"滿多有6萬多人"},{"start":7571.04,"end":7573.04,"text":"那在我的選區"},{"start":7573.04,"end":7575.04,"text":"我的選區密集度也算是"},{"start":7575.04,"end":7577.04,"text":"非常高那我們現在"},{"start":7577.04,"end":7579.04,"text":"是在山峽"},{"start":7579.04,"end":7581.04,"text":"的北大那邊"},{"start":7581.04,"end":7583.04,"text":"有設立一個"},{"start":7583.04,"end":7585.04,"text":"就是我們的原立廣場"},{"start":7585.04,"end":7587.04,"text":"是不是"},{"start":7589.04,"end":7591.04,"text":"那原立廣場你未來"},{"start":7591.04,"end":7593.04,"text":"在土城"},{"start":7593.04,"end":7595.04,"text":"這一邊還是樹林"},{"start":7595.04,"end":7597.04,"text":"這一邊是不是我們未來"},{"start":7597.04,"end":7599.04,"text":"還是要每一個地方"},{"start":7599.04,"end":7601.04,"text":"都有一個原立廣場"},{"start":7601.04,"end":7603.04,"text":"讓我們原住民不用"},{"start":7603.04,"end":7605.04,"text":"每次的集會每次的"},{"start":7605.04,"end":7607.04,"text":"活動都要透過"},{"start":7607.04,"end":7609.04,"text":"我們的理辦公室這一邊"},{"start":7609.04,"end":7611.04,"text":"去跟人家借租"},{"start":7611.04,"end":7613.04,"text":"那你要是我們原住民"},{"start":7613.04,"end":7615.04,"text":"自己有個廣場"},{"start":7615.04,"end":7617.04,"text":"自己可以來那邊辦活動"},{"start":7617.04,"end":7619.04,"text":"我認為這是應該比較"},{"start":7619.04,"end":7621.04,"text":"適當"},{"start":7621.04,"end":7623.04,"text":"原則上要廣場"},{"start":7623.04,"end":7625.04,"text":"廣場的設立當然是"},{"start":7625.04,"end":7627.04,"text":"族人應該會有這方面的需求"},{"start":7627.04,"end":7629.04,"text":"這是毋庸置疑但是可能要考量"},{"start":7629.04,"end":7631.04,"text":"那個位置有沒有適當的"},{"start":7631.04,"end":7633.04,"text":"位置另外就是說族人有多少"},{"start":7633.04,"end":7635.04,"text":"在那個區域我想這都是未來"},{"start":7635.04,"end":7637.04,"text":"要去做一個爬梳"},{"start":7637.04,"end":7639.04,"text":"的一些數據來考量"},{"start":7639.04,"end":7641.04,"text":"說要設在什麼地方而且他"},{"start":7641.04,"end":7643.04,"text":"事實上這個設了以後族人的"},{"start":7643.04,"end":7645.04,"text":"可急性可利用性是非常高的"},{"start":7645.04,"end":7647.04,"text":"那這個設了才會有意義"},{"start":7647.04,"end":7649.04,"text":"那朝這個方向去進行"},{"start":7649.04,"end":7651.04,"text":"我們會努力啦"},{"start":7651.04,"end":7653.04,"text":"我們設立的是透過"},{"start":7653.04,"end":7655.04,"text":"我們當地的居民"},{"start":7655.04,"end":7657.04,"text":"都可以共同來使用"},{"start":7657.04,"end":7659.04,"text":"但是我們原住民"},{"start":7659.04,"end":7661.04,"text":"是優先的使用"},{"start":7661.04,"end":7663.04,"text":"管理上也是我們原住民"},{"start":7663.04,"end":7665.04,"text":"來做管理"},{"start":7665.04,"end":7667.04,"text":"那你整個"},{"start":7667.04,"end":7669.04,"text":"我們的地方上"},{"start":7669.04,"end":7671.04,"text":"大家都可以來出借"},{"start":7671.04,"end":7673.04,"text":"那這樣就可以說"},{"start":7673.04,"end":7675.04,"text":"不會像以前的文字館"},{"start":7675.04,"end":7677.04,"text":"這是一個非常"},{"start":7677.04,"end":7679.04,"text":"大家共同"},{"start":7679.04,"end":7681.04,"text":"去使用"},{"start":7681.04,"end":7683.04,"text":"那使用率都會很高"},{"start":7683.04,"end":7685.04,"text":"那未來是不是可以朝這個方向"},{"start":7685.04,"end":7687.04,"text":"來做"},{"start":7687.04,"end":7689.04,"text":"我們朝這個方向來研議來調查相關數據"},{"start":7689.04,"end":7691.04,"text":"看有沒有適合的點"},{"start":7691.04,"end":7693.04,"text":"我覺得那個點很重要"},{"start":7693.04,"end":7695.04,"text":"因為有時候土地在都市地區"},{"start":7695.04,"end":7697.04,"text":"土地要取得蠻困難的"},{"start":7697.04,"end":7699.04,"text":"對因為現在在我們山英"},{"start":7699.04,"end":7701.04,"text":"這個季落真的是"},{"start":7701.04,"end":7703.04,"text":"原住民非常多"},{"start":7703.04,"end":7705.04,"text":"那原住民非常多"},{"start":7705.04,"end":7707.04,"text":"像是士林還有土城"},{"start":7707.04,"end":7709.04,"text":"那本席這邊是土城"},{"start":7709.04,"end":7711.04,"text":"那土城我們當初在推動原住民公園"},{"start":7711.04,"end":7713.04,"text":"那原住民公園也設立了"},{"start":7713.04,"end":7715.04,"text":"但是就是一個"},{"start":7715.04,"end":7717.04,"text":"遠離廣場"},{"start":7717.04,"end":7719.04,"text":"就是還沒辦法去設立"},{"start":7719.04,"end":7721.04,"text":"這我也是多次"},{"start":7721.04,"end":7723.04,"text":"跟我們原民會來做徵起"},{"start":7723.04,"end":7725.04,"text":"那後來還是沒辦法去"},{"start":7725.04,"end":7727.04,"text":"很順暢的"},{"start":7727.04,"end":7729.04,"text":"來設立"},{"start":7729.04,"end":7731.04,"text":"這一點是我們真的原住民"},{"start":7731.04,"end":7733.04,"text":"我們原委會真的要來做檢討"},{"start":7733.04,"end":7735.04,"text":"好那事實上"},{"start":7735.04,"end":7737.04,"text":"那我們也有相關的計畫"},{"start":7737.04,"end":7739.04,"text":"目前也在進行"},{"start":7739.04,"end":7741.04,"text":"剛剛委員提的這個可能在那個計畫裡面"},{"start":7741.04,"end":7743.04,"text":"也有機會來使用這個相關預算"},{"start":7743.04,"end":7745.04,"text":"但是要看我剛剛講前面那些評估"},{"start":7745.04,"end":7747.04,"text":"到底有沒有適合的"},{"start":7747.04,"end":7749.04,"text":"位置還有原住民的人口數"},{"start":7749.04,"end":7751.04,"text":"在那個地方是有沒有可及性可利用性"},{"start":7751.04,"end":7753.04,"text":"這都是我們要去"},{"start":7753.04,"end":7755.04,"text":"評估的"},{"start":7755.04,"end":7757.04,"text":"要是人數的話土城那邊是絕對"},{"start":7757.04,"end":7759.04,"text":"絕對符合"},{"start":7759.04,"end":7761.04,"text":"這一點是我們要共同來努力"},{"start":7761.04,"end":7763.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":7763.04,"end":7765.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7794.04,"end":7796.04,"text":"主席"},{"start":7796.04,"end":7798.04,"text":"各位委員還有我們"},{"start":7798.04,"end":7800.04,"text":"就請這個"},{"start":7800.04,"end":7802.04,"text":"梅莊處長"},{"start":7802.04,"end":7804.04,"text":"副主委"},{"start":7804.04,"end":7806.04,"text":"副主委"},{"start":7806.04,"end":7808.04,"text":"因為處長坐很久啦"},{"start":7808.04,"end":7810.04,"text":"對對"},{"start":7810.04,"end":7812.04,"text":"副主委好"},{"start":7812.04,"end":7814.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":7814.04,"end":7816.04,"text":"今天的專案報告裡面"},{"start":7816.04,"end":7818.04,"text":"主要"},{"start":7818.04,"end":7820.04,"text":"你們的報告裡面"},{"start":7820.04,"end":7822.04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但是很可惜"},{"start":8402.04,"end":8404.04,"text":"很遺憾"},{"start":8404.04,"end":8406.04,"text":"很遺憾"},{"start":8406.04,"end":8408.04,"text":"原基法第二條之一"},{"start":8408.04,"end":8410.04,"text":"在2014年12月16號"},{"start":8410.04,"end":8412.04,"text":"明定"},{"start":8412.04,"end":8414.04,"text":"然後授權"},{"start":8414.04,"end":8416.04,"text":"研民會"},{"start":8416.04,"end":8418.04,"text":"要定這個部落公法人設置辦法"},{"start":8418.04,"end":8420.04,"text":"到現在都沒有定出來"},{"start":8420.04,"end":8422.04,"text":"那麼簡單的東西"},{"start":8422.04,"end":8424.04,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":8424.04,"end":8426.04,"text":"當然今天主委不在"},{"start":8426.04,"end":8428.04,"text":"但是副主委很重要"},{"start":8428.04,"end":8430.04,"text":"我過去當副主委"},{"start":8430.04,"end":8432.04,"text":"常務副主委的時候"},{"start":8432.04,"end":8434.04,"text":"到處去"},{"start":8434.04,"end":8436.04,"text":"協調相關的部會"},{"start":8436.04,"end":8438.04,"text":"甚至去協調"},{"start":8438.04,"end":8440.04,"text":"政務委員"},{"start":8440.04,"end":8442.04,"text":"甚至去協調政務委員"},{"start":8442.04,"end":8444.04,"text":"包括現在研民會"},{"start":8444.04,"end":8446.04,"text":"所以設置條例會通過"},{"start":8446.04,"end":8448.04,"text":"也是我去協調林旺益政務委員的"},{"start":8448.04,"end":8452.04,"text":"你有沒有去協調過哪個政務委員"},{"start":8452.04,"end":8454.04,"text":"沒有"},{"start":8454.04,"end":8456.04,"text":"原則上是跟我們督導的政務委員會有一些"},{"start":8456.04,"end":8458.04,"text":"要去拜託"},{"start":8458.04,"end":8460.04,"text":"要去溝通"},{"start":8460.04,"end":8462.04,"text":"要去說服"},{"start":8462.04,"end":8464.04,"text":"只有靠這個"},{"start":8464.04,"end":8466.04,"text":"去拜託去說服"},{"start":8466.04,"end":8468.04,"text":"包括地方制度法"},{"start":8468.04,"end":8470.04,"text":"當初的修正"},{"start":8470.04,"end":8472.04,"text":"要變成五都的時候"},{"start":8472.04,"end":8474.04,"text":"我去協調林宗生當時的次長"},{"start":8474.04,"end":8476.04,"text":"才完成的"},{"start":8476.04,"end":8478.04,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":8478.04,"end":8480.04,"text":"要去加油"},{"start":8480.04,"end":8482.04,"text":"副主委很重要"},{"start":8482.04,"end":8484.04,"text":"常務副主委更重要"},{"start":8484.04,"end":8486.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":8486.04,"end":8488.04,"text":"謝謝委員的鼓勵"},{"start":8494.04,"end":8496.04,"text":"請教委發言諮詢"},{"start":8506.04,"end":8508.04,"text":"好謝謝有請副主委"},{"start":8512.04,"end":8514.04,"text":"跟委員會報告"},{"start":8514.04,"end":8516.04,"text":"今天立法院很忙"},{"start":8516.04,"end":8518.04,"text":"包含教文現在也在表決"},{"start":8518.04,"end":8520.04,"text":"包含樓上這個"},{"start":8520.04,"end":8522.04,"text":"院長也主持協商"},{"start":8522.04,"end":8524.04,"text":"有關我們內政委員會的預算"},{"start":8524.04,"end":8526.04,"text":"所以時間上也"},{"start":8526.04,"end":8528.04,"text":"跟各位委員拜託"},{"start":8528.04,"end":8530.04,"text":"時間上精準一下"},{"start":8530.04,"end":8532.04,"text":"那今天"},{"start":8532.04,"end":8534.04,"text":"感謝召委排審"},{"start":8534.04,"end":8536.04,"text":"原住民基本法以及原住民"},{"start":8536.04,"end":8538.04,"text":"身份法"},{"start":8538.04,"end":8540.04,"text":"原住民基本法跟原住民身份法"},{"start":8540.04,"end":8542.04,"text":"跟今天主委所"},{"start":8542.04,"end":8544.04,"text":"的行程剛好沒有辦法碰到"},{"start":8544.04,"end":8546.04,"text":"主委今天去參加什麼行程"},{"start":8546.04,"end":8548.04,"text":"那個希拉雅的正名記者會"},{"start":8548.04,"end":8550.04,"text":"還有院會"},{"start":8550.04,"end":8552.04,"text":"其實就跟今天所要排審的"},{"start":8552.04,"end":8554.04,"text":"內容是有高度重疊的"},{"start":8554.04,"end":8556.04,"text":"所以我們還是希望等一下"},{"start":8556.04,"end":8558.04,"text":"主委回來可以多做一些"},{"start":8558.04,"end":8560.04,"text":"討論那我想就針對"},{"start":8560.04,"end":8562.04,"text":"這個基本法身份法以及"},{"start":8562.04,"end":8564.04,"text":"我最近所碰到的這些"},{"start":8564.04,"end":8566.04,"text":"這些"},{"start":8566.04,"end":8568.04,"text":"我親眼所看到的"},{"start":8568.04,"end":8570.04,"text":"我在DC"},{"start":8570.04,"end":8572.04,"text":"訪問的時候"},{"start":8572.04,"end":8574.04,"text":"我們的大使安排了我們去"},{"start":8574.04,"end":8576.04,"text":"中華民國的外使"},{"start":8576.04,"end":8578.04,"text":"在DC的使館"},{"start":8578.04,"end":8580.04,"text":"就是雙向園"},{"start":8580.04,"end":8582.04,"text":"在雙向園門口"},{"start":8582.04,"end":8584.04,"text":"我就忍不住跟這個"},{"start":8584.04,"end":8586.04,"text":"我們的達悟族的傳統拼板船"},{"start":8586.04,"end":8588.04,"text":"我們在那一條達悟族的那一條船"},{"start":8588.04,"end":8590.04,"text":"拼板舟"},{"start":8590.04,"end":8592.04,"text":"做了合照那也是今天"},{"start":8592.04,"end":8594.04,"text":"這個專案報告裡面有講到"},{"start":8594.04,"end":8596.04,"text":"我們今年度原民會"},{"start":8596.04,"end":8598.04,"text":"跟海委會合作去南島語族的"},{"start":8598.04,"end":8600.04,"text":"航海計畫"},{"start":8600.04,"end":8602.04,"text":"從台灣航海"},{"start":8602.04,"end":8604.04,"text":"航海舟到菲律賓"},{"start":8604.04,"end":8606.04,"text":"來那個副主委這個計畫"},{"start":8606.04,"end":8608.04,"text":"我也看到包含我們的這個"},{"start":8608.04,"end":8610.04,"text":"基金會以及文化部"},{"start":8610.04,"end":8612.04,"text":"也都做了相關的這些"},{"start":8612.04,"end":8614.04,"text":"紀錄海委會也都"},{"start":8614.04,"end":8616.04,"text":"做了這些相關的這些紀錄"},{"start":8616.04,"end":8618.04,"text":"這個故事"},{"start":8618.04,"end":8620.04,"text":"要怎麼樣才會精彩"},{"start":8620.04,"end":8622.04,"text":"那是要基金會董事長來說明"},{"start":8622.04,"end":8624.04,"text":"說明好"},{"start":8624.04,"end":8626.04,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":8626.04,"end":8628.04,"text":"巴丹跟"},{"start":8628.04,"end":8630.04,"text":"蘭嶼的航海"},{"start":8630.04,"end":8632.04,"text":"是整個南島語區"},{"start":8632.04,"end":8634.04,"text":"擴散的一個活的"},{"start":8634.04,"end":8636.04,"text":"動態"},{"start":8636.04,"end":8638.04,"text":"所以在蘭嶼其實已經喊了"},{"start":8638.04,"end":8640.04,"text":"二十幾年要划船過去"},{"start":8640.04,"end":8642.04,"text":"那剛剛有委員提到說"},{"start":8642.04,"end":8644.04,"text":"這第一次"},{"start":8644.04,"end":8646.04,"text":"有紀錄的第一次啦"},{"start":8646.04,"end":8648.04,"text":"以前不知道怎麼去的喔"},{"start":8648.04,"end":8650.04,"text":"以前的交流是會到桃園"},{"start":8650.04,"end":8652.04,"text":"再到馬尼拉"},{"start":8652.04,"end":8654.04,"text":"但是我們過去其實我們在海上"},{"start":8654.04,"end":8656.04,"text":"我們不划"},{"start":8656.04,"end":8658.04,"text":"眼睛睜開就已經到巴丹島了"},{"start":8658.04,"end":8660.04,"text":"所以過去的航線是非常非常密切"},{"start":8660.04,"end":8662.04,"text":"不同的兩個國家"},{"start":8662.04,"end":8664.04,"text":"我們就斷裂了"},{"start":8664.04,"end":8666.04,"text":"所以這一次的計畫我們的長老"},{"start":8666.04,"end":8668.04,"text":"我們的青年都非常踴躍"},{"start":8668.04,"end":8670.04,"text":"我們本來只要六十個"},{"start":8670.04,"end":8672.04,"text":"滑槳手"},{"start":8672.04,"end":8674.04,"text":"報名報到一百多個"},{"start":8674.04,"end":8676.04,"text":"到後來叔叔要協調弟弟"},{"start":8676.04,"end":8678.04,"text":"弟弟要協調表哥"},{"start":8678.04,"end":8680.04,"text":"先讓我滑我快去世了"},{"start":8680.04,"end":8682.04,"text":"先讓我去一次"},{"start":8682.04,"end":8684.04,"text":"所以這個很熱烈啦"},{"start":8684.04,"end":8686.04,"text":"那接下來除了這些紀錄之外"},{"start":8686.04,"end":8688.04,"text":"到了菲律賓之後"},{"start":8688.04,"end":8690.04,"text":"我們還會有繼續往南"},{"start":8690.04,"end":8692.04,"text":"還有我們在台灣的這些相關的這些想法跟計畫嗎"},{"start":8692.04,"end":8694.04,"text":"我覺得這個可以跟外交部"},{"start":8694.04,"end":8696.04,"text":"多做一些聯繫合作"},{"start":8696.04,"end":8698.04,"text":"讓我們這個文化的這些"},{"start":8698.04,"end":8700.04,"text":"可以交流的機會"},{"start":8700.04,"end":8702.04,"text":"可以繼續往外"},{"start":8702.04,"end":8704.04,"text":"是報告委員"},{"start":8704.04,"end":8706.04,"text":"明年夏威夷的"},{"start":8706.04,"end":8708.04,"text":"福古里亞"},{"start":8708.04,"end":8710.04,"text":"這是航行太平洋"},{"start":8710.04,"end":8712.04,"text":"波里尼西亞跟密歐尼西亞"},{"start":8712.04,"end":8714.04,"text":"幾千公里的一個航海團隊"},{"start":8714.04,"end":8716.04,"text":"他們明年會來台灣"},{"start":8716.04,"end":8718.04,"text":"他們也跟台灣要接觸"},{"start":8718.04,"end":8720.04,"text":"那巴丹島的省長"},{"start":8720.04,"end":8722.04,"text":"他也希望從巴丹"},{"start":8722.04,"end":8724.04,"text":"滑回來蘭嶼"},{"start":8724.04,"end":8726.04,"text":"這個洋流是可以去可以回來嗎"},{"start":8726.04,"end":8728.04,"text":"對對對"},{"start":8728.04,"end":8730.04,"text":"我們東北風是往南"},{"start":8730.04,"end":8732.04,"text":"所以我們往南"},{"start":8732.04,"end":8734.04,"text":"到巴丹去"},{"start":8734.04,"end":8736.04,"text":"我們大概就是在"},{"start":8736.04,"end":8738.04,"text":"這個月份五到八月"},{"start":8738.04,"end":8740.04,"text":"那從巴丹上來是西南風"},{"start":8740.04,"end":8742.04,"text":"所以他們應該會希望"},{"start":8742.04,"end":8744.04,"text":"會在三到五月"},{"start":8744.04,"end":8746.04,"text":"西南風會在"},{"start":8746.04,"end":8748.04,"text":"三到五月"},{"start":8748.04,"end":8750.04,"text":"西南風會順風"},{"start":8750.04,"end":8752.04,"text":"那所以這個航海在"},{"start":8752.04,"end":8754.04,"text":"明年也會有一些新的進展"},{"start":8754.04,"end":8756.04,"text":"我光聽都覺得很精彩"},{"start":8756.04,"end":8758.04,"text":"也期待啦就是說"},{"start":8758.04,"end":8760.04,"text":"除了去那可以如果可以"},{"start":8760.04,"end":8762.04,"text":"真的可以再安排回來或者是"},{"start":8762.04,"end":8764.04,"text":"繼續往太平洋這邊"},{"start":8764.04,"end":8766.04,"text":"島國去做一些這些交流的話"},{"start":8766.04,"end":8768.04,"text":"這是令人期待的謝謝"},{"start":8768.04,"end":8770.04,"text":"謝謝委員會"},{"start":8770.04,"end":8772.04,"text":"那今天我還想要談一個議題"},{"start":8772.04,"end":8774.04,"text":"那希望委員會這邊"},{"start":8774.04,"end":8776.04,"text":"加強我們在原住民"},{"start":8776.04,"end":8778.04,"text":"就業網站看到原Job"},{"start":8778.04,"end":8780.04,"text":"他的這些培養的"},{"start":8780.04,"end":8782.04,"text":"技能班其實我覺得跟勞動部"},{"start":8782.04,"end":8784.04,"text":"的這些技能班可以有高度"},{"start":8784.04,"end":8786.04,"text":"的結合我希望可以"},{"start":8786.04,"end":8788.04,"text":"原民會可以多鼓勵"},{"start":8788.04,"end":8790.04,"text":"包含我們的這些原住民朋友呢"},{"start":8790.04,"end":8792.04,"text":"可以參加加入可以有機會"},{"start":8792.04,"end":8794.04,"text":"踏入台灣的這些科技業的"},{"start":8794.04,"end":8796.04,"text":"發展目前台灣"},{"start":8796.04,"end":8798.04,"text":"現在最缺人那也是"},{"start":8798.04,"end":8800.04,"text":"最憨"},{"start":8800.04,"end":8802.04,"text":"那也是發展最好的這些"},{"start":8802.04,"end":8804.04,"text":"科技業產業"},{"start":8804.04,"end":8806.04,"text":"那我想請教一下"},{"start":8806.04,"end":8808.04,"text":"那這一個就業網站目前"},{"start":8808.04,"end":8810.04,"text":"的這些"},{"start":8810.04,"end":8812.04,"text":"跟勞動部的這些接軌"},{"start":8812.04,"end":8814.04,"text":"的狀況怎樣"},{"start":8816.04,"end":8818.04,"text":"跟委員報告那其實我們現在"},{"start":8818.04,"end":8820.04,"text":"都是有跟勞動部"},{"start":8820.04,"end":8822.04,"text":"有做合作但是"},{"start":8822.04,"end":8824.04,"text":"我們是固定都會有一個"},{"start":8824.04,"end":8826.04,"text":"跨部會的一個會議"},{"start":8826.04,"end":8828.04,"text":"我這要具體建議"},{"start":8828.04,"end":8830.04,"text":"還有一些像說原住民"},{"start":8830.04,"end":8832.04,"text":"就業服務員跟他們的"},{"start":8832.04,"end":8834.04,"text":"我聽你講"},{"start":8834.04,"end":8836.04,"text":"我聽你回應前兩句我先"},{"start":8836.04,"end":8838.04,"text":"給你具體建議你說跨部會"},{"start":8838.04,"end":8840.04,"text":"的合作會議那個就"},{"start":8840.04,"end":8842.04,"text":"就代表不具體嘛加合作會議"},{"start":8842.04,"end":8844.04,"text":"我給你具體的建議"},{"start":8844.04,"end":8846.04,"text":"在高雄在佐營"},{"start":8846.04,"end":8848.04,"text":"我們有相當多"},{"start":8848.04,"end":8850.04,"text":"的這個原住民朋友他是"},{"start":8850.04,"end":8852.04,"text":"聚落居住在那裡約"},{"start":8852.04,"end":8854.04,"text":"有六千人就在平山"},{"start":8854.04,"end":8856.04,"text":"一帶那平山這一帶呢"},{"start":8856.04,"end":8858.04,"text":"甚至原委會也補助"},{"start":8858.04,"end":8860.04,"text":"相關的這些場地那做些"},{"start":8860.04,"end":8862.04,"text":"修繕你知道他離台積電"},{"start":8862.04,"end":8864.04,"text":"廠區多遠嗎不到"},{"start":8864.04,"end":8866.04,"text":"一公里啊不到"},{"start":8866.04,"end":8868.04,"text":"一公里其實"},{"start":8868.04,"end":8870.04,"text":"那個聚落這個平山聚落他其實"},{"start":8870.04,"end":8872.04,"text":"就在這一個就整個"},{"start":8872.04,"end":8874.04,"text":"台積電廠區附近"},{"start":8874.04,"end":8876.04,"text":"我很希望你們可以"},{"start":8876.04,"end":8878.04,"text":"就現在是網站上"},{"start":8878.04,"end":8880.04,"text":"那我很希望你們可以就"},{"start":8880.04,"end":8882.04,"text":"實地上可以跟"},{"start":8882.04,"end":8884.04,"text":"勞動部來做這一個"},{"start":8884.04,"end":8886.04,"text":"原民job你們"},{"start":8886.04,"end":8888.04,"text":"原job這個工作的"},{"start":8888.04,"end":8890.04,"text":"媒合那可以讓"},{"start":8890.04,"end":8892.04,"text":"我們原民朋友有機會"},{"start":8892.04,"end":8894.04,"text":"可以感受到"},{"start":8894.04,"end":8896.04,"text":"我們這個聚落我們在高雄"},{"start":8896.04,"end":8898.04,"text":"佐營我們這個聚落居然"},{"start":8898.04,"end":8900.04,"text":"離半導體產業這麼近"},{"start":8900.04,"end":8902.04,"text":"我們有沒有機會進去"},{"start":8902.04,"end":8904.04,"text":"我們要去學什麼有機會進去"},{"start":8904.04,"end":8906.04,"text":"我們要怎麼樣進修有機會進去"},{"start":8906.04,"end":8908.04,"text":"我們如果"},{"start":8908.04,"end":8910.04,"text":"光是透過勞動部不夠我們透"},{"start":8910.04,"end":8912.04,"text":"原民會原委會我們還可以"},{"start":8912.04,"end":8914.04,"text":"協助我們的族人"},{"start":8914.04,"end":8916.04,"text":"可以做什麼可以有機會我覺得"},{"start":8916.04,"end":8918.04,"text":"這個是我希望可以"},{"start":8918.04,"end":8920.04,"text":"務實實際的在"},{"start":8920.04,"end":8922.04,"text":"高雄佐營來發聲"},{"start":8922.04,"end":8924.04,"text":"這個來副主委這個請你回應"},{"start":8924.04,"end":8926.04,"text":"我先跟委員報告一下"},{"start":8926.04,"end":8928.04,"text":"我們高雄其實我們也有我們的就業服務站"},{"start":8928.04,"end":8930.04,"text":"那針對這些AI"},{"start":8930.04,"end":8932.04,"text":"或是有些相關的我們會開發"},{"start":8932.04,"end":8934.04,"text":"我現在講的你的這個就業"},{"start":8934.04,"end":8936.04,"text":"服務站在前陣那我講的是"},{"start":8936.04,"end":8938.04,"text":"佐營這個基地你們也可以"},{"start":8938.04,"end":8940.04,"text":"好好的利用來副主委你請你回應"},{"start":8940.04,"end":8942.04,"text":"謝謝委員的這個提示"},{"start":8942.04,"end":8944.04,"text":"針對委員剛剛講這部分我們會加強"},{"start":8944.04,"end":8946.04,"text":"在地方的這個就業服務站"},{"start":8946.04,"end":8948.04,"text":"還有我們這個網站跟那個勞動部"},{"start":8948.04,"end":8950.04,"text":"要怎麼去結合他們"},{"start":8950.04,"end":8952.04,"text":"我希望可以實際上看到你們在佐營"},{"start":8952.04,"end":8954.04,"text":"就是針對那個重點的部分去做這個媒介"},{"start":8954.04,"end":8956.04,"text":"那做這個媒介協助你們的族人"},{"start":8956.04,"end":8958.04,"text":"來一起可能"},{"start":8958.04,"end":8960.04,"text":"可以加入高雄的半導體產業"},{"start":8960.04,"end":8962.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8962.04,"end":8964.04,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":8964.04,"end":8966.04,"text":"好"},{"start":8966.04,"end":8968.04,"text":"因為稍等還要處理"},{"start":8968.04,"end":8970.04,"text":"這個法案"},{"start":8970.04,"end":8972.04,"text":"所以我們大概等巡達完之後"},{"start":8972.04,"end":8974.04,"text":"再休息"},{"start":8974.04,"end":8976.04,"text":"如果說有任何狀況可以隨時提出"},{"start":8976.04,"end":8978.04,"text":"沒有問題那我們下一位請吳立華"},{"start":8978.04,"end":8980.04,"text":"委員發言質詢"},{"start":8988.04,"end":8990.04,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":8990.04,"end":8992.04,"text":"有請副主委"},{"start":8992.04,"end":8994.04,"text":"很可惜沒有主委在"},{"start":8996.04,"end":8998.04,"text":"好委員好"},{"start":8998.04,"end":9000.04,"text":"今天"},{"start":9000.04,"end":9002.04,"text":"特別在內政委員會"},{"start":9002.04,"end":9004.04,"text":"邀請原民會"},{"start":9004.04,"end":9006.04,"text":"做這樣的一個"},{"start":9006.04,"end":9008.04,"text":"專報"},{"start":9008.04,"end":9010.04,"text":"但是與此同時"},{"start":9010.04,"end":9012.04,"text":"此時此刻"},{"start":9012.04,"end":9014.04,"text":"我知道的是在行政院的大禮堂"},{"start":9014.04,"end":9016.04,"text":"有舉辦一個西拉亞族民族"},{"start":9016.04,"end":9018.04,"text":"的一個專報"},{"start":9018.04,"end":9020.04,"text":"但是我們也沒有"},{"start":9020.04,"end":9022.04,"text":"西拉亞族民族合訂"},{"start":9022.04,"end":9024.04,"text":"暨正名宣告的一個典禮"},{"start":9026.04,"end":9028.04,"text":"西拉亞族加入"},{"start":9028.04,"end":9030.04,"text":"原住民族的第十七族"},{"start":9030.04,"end":9032.04,"text":"這是何等"},{"start":9032.04,"end":9034.04,"text":"困難"},{"start":9034.04,"end":9036.04,"text":"何等重要的一件事"},{"start":9036.04,"end":9038.04,"text":"那照理說"},{"start":9038.04,"end":9040.04,"text":"我們這些原住民的委員"},{"start":9040.04,"end":9042.04,"text":"我們是弟兄姊妹"},{"start":9042.04,"end":9044.04,"text":"我們應該要去那個地方"},{"start":9044.04,"end":9046.04,"text":"共同的來見證"},{"start":9046.04,"end":9048.04,"text":"這個很特別的日子"},{"start":9048.04,"end":9050.04,"text":"但是我非常遺憾"},{"start":9050.04,"end":9052.04,"text":"我沒有辦法參與"},{"start":9052.04,"end":9054.04,"text":"我真的非常的遺憾"},{"start":9054.04,"end":9056.04,"text":"不過呢今天在這裡"},{"start":9056.04,"end":9058.04,"text":"我也要特別提"},{"start":9058.04,"end":9060.04,"text":"今天是七月三十號"},{"start":9060.04,"end":9062.04,"text":"前天七月二十八號"},{"start":9062.04,"end":9064.04,"text":"對原住民來講"},{"start":9064.04,"end":9066.04,"text":"是一個非常重要的日子"},{"start":9066.04,"end":9068.04,"text":"因為在一九九四年"},{"start":9068.04,"end":9070.04,"text":"那一天"},{"start":9070.04,"end":9072.04,"text":"我們從山包"},{"start":9072.04,"end":9074.04,"text":"正名為原住民"},{"start":9074.04,"end":9076.04,"text":"但是"},{"start":9076.04,"end":9078.04,"text":"經過了這三十二年"},{"start":9078.04,"end":9080.04,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":9080.04,"end":9082.04,"text":"我們有沒有更進步"},{"start":9082.04,"end":9084.04,"text":"所以我等一下我特別"},{"start":9084.04,"end":9086.04,"text":"要來複習這一段歷史的關課"},{"start":9086.04,"end":9088.04,"text":"那後天呢"},{"start":9088.04,"end":9090.04,"text":"八月一號"},{"start":9090.04,"end":9092.04,"text":"也是非常重要的日子"},{"start":9092.04,"end":9094.04,"text":"叫做原住民族日"},{"start":9094.04,"end":9096.04,"text":"所以從二零零五年"},{"start":9096.04,"end":9098.04,"text":"制定這個日子"},{"start":9098.04,"end":9100.04,"text":"我相信"},{"start":9100.04,"end":9102.04,"text":"這一些二十一年來"},{"start":9102.04,"end":9104.04,"text":"我們也看到"},{"start":9104.04,"end":9106.04,"text":"很多的演變"},{"start":9106.04,"end":9108.04,"text":"但是我們到底有沒有變得更好"},{"start":9108.04,"end":9110.04,"text":"原住民有沒有變得更進步"},{"start":9110.04,"end":9112.04,"text":"那回過頭來"},{"start":9112.04,"end":9114.04,"text":"我們要回到一九九一年"},{"start":9114.04,"end":9116.04,"text":"這一次的修憲"},{"start":9116.04,"end":9118.04,"text":"因為一九九一年"},{"start":9118.04,"end":9120.04,"text":"這個中華民國的憲法"},{"start":9120.04,"end":9122.04,"text":"是在南京"},{"start":9122.04,"end":9124.04,"text":"一決制定的"},{"start":9124.04,"end":9126.04,"text":"來到台灣"},{"start":9126.04,"end":9128.04,"text":"我們常常講"},{"start":9128.04,"end":9130.04,"text":"這個衣服沒有量身定制"},{"start":9130.04,"end":9132.04,"text":"修修補補"},{"start":9132.04,"end":9134.04,"text":"怎麼補怎麼改"},{"start":9134.04,"end":9136.04,"text":"穿起來就是不好看"},{"start":9136.04,"end":9138.04,"text":"就是不舒服"},{"start":9138.04,"end":9140.04,"text":"那好不容易呢"},{"start":9140.04,"end":9142.04,"text":"一九九一年為了因應終止動員"},{"start":9142.04,"end":9144.04,"text":"看亂時期"},{"start":9144.04,"end":9146.04,"text":"我們終於開始了修憲"},{"start":9146.04,"end":9148.04,"text":"可是這一次的修憲"},{"start":9148.04,"end":9150.04,"text":"我要特別講"},{"start":9150.04,"end":9152.04,"text":"當年的這些原權團體"},{"start":9152.04,"end":9154.04,"text":"我們原住民的權益"},{"start":9154.04,"end":9156.04,"text":"促進會這些團體"},{"start":9156.04,"end":9158.04,"text":"他們把握這一次"},{"start":9158.04,"end":9160.04,"text":"修憲的機會好不容易"},{"start":9160.04,"end":9162.04,"text":"他們的訴求是什麼呢"},{"start":9162.04,"end":9166.04,"text":"希望用台灣原住民族"},{"start":9166.04,"end":9168.04,"text":"這六個字來取代"},{"start":9168.04,"end":9170.04,"text":"平地三包"},{"start":9170.04,"end":9172.04,"text":"三地三包"},{"start":9172.04,"end":9176.04,"text":"可是完全沒有被接納"},{"start":9176.04,"end":9178.04,"text":"到了一九九二年的第二次修憲"},{"start":9178.04,"end":9180.04,"text":"我們看到"},{"start":9180.04,"end":9184.04,"text":"國民黨中常會決定"},{"start":9184.04,"end":9186.04,"text":"要把三包改成"},{"start":9186.04,"end":9188.04,"text":"早住民或先住民"},{"start":9188.04,"end":9192.04,"text":"引起各界強烈的反彈"},{"start":9192.04,"end":9194.04,"text":"所以原權團體"},{"start":9194.04,"end":9196.04,"text":"他們特別到國民大會"},{"start":9196.04,"end":9198.04,"text":"訴求第一個"},{"start":9198.04,"end":9200.04,"text":"希望三包"},{"start":9200.04,"end":9202.04,"text":"要正名為原住民族"},{"start":9202.04,"end":9204.04,"text":"所以我們很清楚的看到"},{"start":9204.04,"end":9206.04,"text":"所以當時呢"},{"start":9206.04,"end":9208.04,"text":"民進黨的一個國大"},{"start":9208.04,"end":9210.04,"text":"叫做吳清貴"},{"start":9210.04,"end":9212.04,"text":"他特別有做出一個"},{"start":9212.04,"end":9214.04,"text":"第三十四號的提案"},{"start":9214.04,"end":9216.04,"text":"他的提案"},{"start":9216.04,"end":9218.04,"text":"他的提案就是說"},{"start":9218.04,"end":9220.04,"text":"希望叫原住民"},{"start":9220.04,"end":9222.04,"text":"但是呢不成功"},{"start":9222.04,"end":9224.04,"text":"在二讀以前就被封殺"},{"start":9224.04,"end":9226.04,"text":"同時呢當時"},{"start":9226.04,"end":9228.04,"text":"國民黨的泰雅族委員"},{"start":9228.04,"end":9230.04,"text":"翁文德"},{"start":9230.04,"end":9234.04,"text":"他也做了一個第八十八號的提案"},{"start":9234.04,"end":9236.04,"text":"他的版本是寫"},{"start":9236.04,"end":9238.04,"text":"自由地區原住民"},{"start":9238.04,"end":9240.04,"text":"有進入到二讀"},{"start":9240.04,"end":9242.04,"text":"但是最後呢"},{"start":9242.04,"end":9244.04,"text":"也沒有成功"},{"start":9244.04,"end":9248.04,"text":"所以到了第三次的修憲前夕"},{"start":9248.04,"end":9250.04,"text":"我們看到"},{"start":9250.04,"end":9252.04,"text":"當時的李登輝總統"},{"start":9252.04,"end":9254.04,"text":"他參加"},{"start":9254.04,"end":9258.04,"text":"我們南部原住民文化園區的文化會議"},{"start":9258.04,"end":9262.04,"text":"他特別講出原住民三個字"},{"start":9262.04,"end":9264.04,"text":"我們也看到"},{"start":9264.04,"end":9266.04,"text":"他跟很多"},{"start":9266.04,"end":9268.04,"text":"台派的國民黨員呢"},{"start":9268.04,"end":9270.04,"text":"也希望他們能夠支持"},{"start":9270.04,"end":9272.04,"text":"所以促使了"},{"start":9272.04,"end":9274.04,"text":"所以促使了"},{"start":9274.04,"end":9276.04,"text":"國民黨版的修憲草案"},{"start":9276.04,"end":9278.04,"text":"把三包寫成了原住民"},{"start":9278.04,"end":9280.04,"text":"我們也看到七月一號"},{"start":9280.04,"end":9282.04,"text":"也就是前夕"},{"start":9282.04,"end":9284.04,"text":"七月二十八號的前夕"},{"start":9284.04,"end":9286.04,"text":"李前總統在接見"},{"start":9286.04,"end":9288.04,"text":"元全團體的時候"},{"start":9288.04,"end":9290.04,"text":"公報記錄上寫著"},{"start":9290.04,"end":9292.04,"text":"當時的國大代表曹啟宏"},{"start":9292.04,"end":9294.04,"text":"他有提到"},{"start":9294.04,"end":9298.04,"text":"他說李登輝在接見各族代表的時候"},{"start":9298.04,"end":9300.04,"text":"當場親口答應"},{"start":9300.04,"end":9302.04,"text":"李登輝在做什麼呢"},{"start":9302.04,"end":9306.04,"text":"山地原住民平地原住民這種區分"},{"start":9306.04,"end":9308.04,"text":"但是國民黨的黨版修憲案"},{"start":9308.04,"end":9310.04,"text":"對此仍然不願意放鬆"},{"start":9310.04,"end":9312.04,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":9312.04,"end":9314.04,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":9314.04,"end":9316.04,"text":"一九九四年"},{"start":9316.04,"end":9318.04,"text":"最後七月二十八號"},{"start":9318.04,"end":9320.04,"text":"有兩個提案版本"},{"start":9320.04,"end":9322.04,"text":"一個是陳菊的版本"},{"start":9322.04,"end":9324.04,"text":"他的版本是來接納"},{"start":9324.04,"end":9326.04,"text":"我們元全團體的"},{"start":9326.04,"end":9328.04,"text":"一個版本"},{"start":9328.04,"end":9330.04,"text":"也就是寫到"},{"start":9330.04,"end":9332.04,"text":"台灣原住民族六人"},{"start":9332.04,"end":9334.04,"text":"但是呢當時國民黨版"},{"start":9334.04,"end":9336.04,"text":"提出的叫做自由地區"},{"start":9336.04,"end":9340.04,"text":"平地原住民及山地原住民各三人"},{"start":9340.04,"end":9342.04,"text":"所以在這裡"},{"start":9342.04,"end":9344.04,"text":"特別看到"},{"start":9344.04,"end":9346.04,"text":"在公報上面有一位"},{"start":9346.04,"end":9348.04,"text":"阿美族的國大代表"},{"start":9348.04,"end":9350.04,"text":"林榮輝"},{"start":9350.04,"end":9352.04,"text":"他有特別提到"},{"start":9352.04,"end":9354.04,"text":"他說在國民黨"},{"start":9354.04,"end":9356.04,"text":"黨版的提案當中"},{"start":9356.04,"end":9358.04,"text":"內部的討論是基於平地三包"},{"start":9358.04,"end":9360.04,"text":"與山地三包的名義分配"},{"start":9362.04,"end":9364.04,"text":"但是他裡面也提到"},{"start":9364.04,"end":9366.04,"text":"他希望"},{"start":9366.04,"end":9368.04,"text":"難道我們會分住在山上的"},{"start":9368.04,"end":9370.04,"text":"叫山地閩南人"},{"start":9370.04,"end":9372.04,"text":"住在平地的叫平地客家人嗎"},{"start":9372.04,"end":9374.04,"text":"所以當時也非常同意"},{"start":9374.04,"end":9378.04,"text":"就是主張原住民就是原住民"},{"start":9378.04,"end":9380.04,"text":"他也表達了一個文字"},{"start":9380.04,"end":9382.04,"text":"叫做為德不足"},{"start":9382.04,"end":9384.04,"text":"他覺得這個版本為德不足"},{"start":9386.04,"end":9388.04,"text":"所以在這個當中"},{"start":9388.04,"end":9390.04,"text":"我們其實可以明確的感受到"},{"start":9390.04,"end":9392.04,"text":"像很多的國大代表"},{"start":9392.04,"end":9394.04,"text":"民進黨的賴坤誠"},{"start":9394.04,"end":9396.04,"text":"也去主張這樣的看法"},{"start":9396.04,"end":9398.04,"text":"主張應該要廢除"},{"start":9398.04,"end":9402.04,"text":"這種對原住民的殖民遺續的分類"},{"start":9402.04,"end":9404.04,"text":"不論是從清朝清代"},{"start":9404.04,"end":9406.04,"text":"或者是日本人"},{"start":9406.04,"end":9408.04,"text":"一直到了國民政府"},{"start":9408.04,"end":9410.04,"text":"這一種希望能夠給原住民"},{"start":9410.04,"end":9412.04,"text":"最起碼的尊嚴"},{"start":9412.04,"end":9414.04,"text":"能夠廢除"},{"start":9414.04,"end":9416.04,"text":"但是很可惜"},{"start":9416.04,"end":9418.04,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":9418.04,"end":9420.04,"text":"當時的國民大會的代表席次"},{"start":9420.04,"end":9422.04,"text":"總共是325席"},{"start":9422.04,"end":9424.04,"text":"那麼國民黨254席"},{"start":9424.04,"end":9426.04,"text":"民進黨66席"},{"start":9426.04,"end":9428.04,"text":"5黨5席"},{"start":9428.04,"end":9430.04,"text":"所以我們可以看到"},{"start":9430.04,"end":9432.04,"text":"當時的一個投票的結果"},{"start":9432.04,"end":9434.04,"text":"我們看到"},{"start":9434.04,"end":9438.04,"text":"民進黨對於自己的一個成局的版本"},{"start":9438.04,"end":9440.04,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":9440.04,"end":9442.04,"text":"就是56票"},{"start":9442.04,"end":9444.04,"text":"這56票是怎麼來的"},{"start":9444.04,"end":9446.04,"text":"我要特別說明"},{"start":9446.04,"end":9450.04,"text":"就是全部民進黨的49票"},{"start":9450.04,"end":9454.04,"text":"加上全部當時原住民國大的7票"},{"start":9454.04,"end":9458.04,"text":"總共56票同意"},{"start":9458.04,"end":9460.04,"text":"那在國民黨版的投票"},{"start":9460.04,"end":9462.04,"text":"我們可以發現"},{"start":9462.04,"end":9466.04,"text":"因為國民黨版是要說自由地區"},{"start":9466.04,"end":9468.04,"text":"平地三包"},{"start":9468.04,"end":9470.04,"text":"山地三包"},{"start":9470.04,"end":9472.04,"text":"所以在這個當中"},{"start":9472.04,"end":9474.04,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":9474.04,"end":9476.04,"text":"即便是原本國民黨如果全部支持"},{"start":9476.04,"end":9478.04,"text":"應該可以通過"},{"start":9478.04,"end":9480.04,"text":"仍然未通過"},{"start":9480.04,"end":9482.04,"text":"所以重新投票"},{"start":9482.04,"end":9484.04,"text":"之後因為有人離席"},{"start":9484.04,"end":9486.04,"text":"我特別要交代這一件事情"},{"start":9486.04,"end":9488.04,"text":"就是要說"},{"start":9488.04,"end":9490.04,"text":"我們現在看到的"},{"start":9490.04,"end":9492.04,"text":"這個定案的現行條文"},{"start":9492.04,"end":9494.04,"text":"也就是那個時候"},{"start":9494.04,"end":9496.04,"text":"我們不得已留下來的條文"},{"start":9496.04,"end":9498.04,"text":"第四條"},{"start":9498.04,"end":9500.04,"text":"就是地區平地原住民"},{"start":9500.04,"end":9502.04,"text":"及山地原住民各三人"},{"start":9502.04,"end":9504.04,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":9504.04,"end":9506.04,"text":"原住民沒有放棄"},{"start":9506.04,"end":9508.04,"text":"2020年"},{"start":9508.04,"end":9510.04,"text":"我來到立法院"},{"start":9510.04,"end":9512.04,"text":"我參與修憲小組"},{"start":9512.04,"end":9514.04,"text":"我就是希望"},{"start":9514.04,"end":9516.04,"text":"能夠延續"},{"start":9516.04,"end":9518.04,"text":"過去沒有能夠完成的"},{"start":9518.04,"end":9520.04,"text":"這樣的一個使命"},{"start":9520.04,"end":9522.04,"text":"但是非常的可惜"},{"start":9522.04,"end":9524.04,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":9524.04,"end":9526.04,"text":"連署共39人"},{"start":9526.04,"end":9528.04,"text":"我拿去給所有的"},{"start":9528.04,"end":9530.04,"text":"不分黨派的委員"},{"start":9530.04,"end":9532.04,"text":"但是我只連署到39人"},{"start":9532.04,"end":9534.04,"text":"連要出立法院都沒有辦法"},{"start":9534.04,"end":9536.04,"text":"黃潤要進入公投"},{"start":9536.04,"end":9538.04,"text":"所以2024年第二屆"},{"start":9538.04,"end":9540.04,"text":"我第11屆進來"},{"start":9540.04,"end":9542.04,"text":"我依然提出這樣的一個"},{"start":9542.04,"end":9544.04,"text":"修憲提案"},{"start":9544.04,"end":9546.04,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":9546.04,"end":9548.04,"text":"更少了36人連署"},{"start":9548.04,"end":9550.04,"text":"依舊沒有辦法"},{"start":9550.04,"end":9552.04,"text":"所以我現在"},{"start":9552.04,"end":9554.04,"text":"我參與了"},{"start":9554.04,"end":9556.04,"text":"連署依舊沒有辦法"},{"start":9556.04,"end":9558.04,"text":"我在這邊很高興"},{"start":9558.04,"end":9560.04,"text":"今天下午我們會提出"},{"start":9560.04,"end":9562.04,"text":"原住民的身份法"},{"start":9562.04,"end":9564.04,"text":"我要特別提到的是"},{"start":9564.04,"end":9566.04,"text":"國大原來的修憲程序的門檻"},{"start":9566.04,"end":9568.04,"text":"就已經很高"},{"start":9568.04,"end":9570.04,"text":"現行修憲程序的門檻更高"},{"start":9570.04,"end":9572.04,"text":"修憲那麼難"},{"start":9572.04,"end":9574.04,"text":"那我們就回到原住民身份法去處理"},{"start":9574.04,"end":9576.04,"text":"我們主張"},{"start":9576.04,"end":9578.04,"text":"山地原住民平地原住民"},{"start":9578.04,"end":9580.04,"text":"平埔原住民"},{"start":9580.04,"end":9582.04,"text":"南島語系的民族原住民"},{"start":9582.04,"end":9584.04,"text":"就是原住民"},{"start":9584.04,"end":9586.04,"text":"今天7月30號"},{"start":9586.04,"end":9588.04,"text":"希拉亞族"},{"start":9588.04,"end":9590.04,"text":"他能夠正式加入"},{"start":9590.04,"end":9592.04,"text":"原住民族的第17族"},{"start":9592.04,"end":9594.04,"text":"這是一個非常非常"},{"start":9594.04,"end":9596.04,"text":"重要的日子"},{"start":9596.04,"end":9598.04,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":9598.04,"end":9600.04,"text":"連平埔族"},{"start":9600.04,"end":9602.04,"text":"希拉亞加入都這麼難了"},{"start":9602.04,"end":9604.04,"text":"所以今天的原住民身份法"},{"start":9604.04,"end":9606.04,"text":"我有一個提案"},{"start":9606.04,"end":9608.04,"text":"就是第7條的"},{"start":9608.04,"end":9610.04,"text":"第二項的增列"},{"start":9610.04,"end":9612.04,"text":"我希望取消"},{"start":9612.04,"end":9614.04,"text":"落日條款"},{"start":9614.04,"end":9616.04,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":9616.04,"end":9618.04,"text":"我剛剛講了連平埔族"},{"start":9618.04,"end":9620.04,"text":"連希拉亞族要加入"},{"start":9620.04,"end":9622.04,"text":"原住民的大家庭就這麼難"},{"start":9622.04,"end":9624.04,"text":"我們應該讓"},{"start":9624.04,"end":9626.04,"text":"父母本來可以取得原住民身份"},{"start":9626.04,"end":9628.04,"text":"卻因為他們已經死亡"},{"start":9628.04,"end":9630.04,"text":"導致無法依父母身份"},{"start":9630.04,"end":9632.04,"text":"取得原住民身份的人"},{"start":9632.04,"end":9634.04,"text":"我們希望他們也可以"},{"start":9634.04,"end":9636.04,"text":"用傳統名字"},{"start":9636.04,"end":9638.04,"text":"取得原住民身份"},{"start":9638.04,"end":9640.04,"text":"我希望取消這個落日條款"},{"start":9640.04,"end":9642.04,"text":"我覺得這是我們"},{"start":9642.04,"end":9644.04,"text":"應該大家一同要來做的事"},{"start":9644.04,"end":9646.04,"text":"因為原住民"},{"start":9646.04,"end":9648.04,"text":"就是原住民"},{"start":9648.04,"end":9650.04,"text":"副主委我今天"},{"start":9650.04,"end":9652.04,"text":"沒有讓這個"},{"start":9652.04,"end":9654.04,"text":"成為詢答"},{"start":9654.04,"end":9656.04,"text":"沒有讓你回覆任何一句話"},{"start":9656.04,"end":9658.04,"text":"我只是希望原民會"},{"start":9658.04,"end":9660.04,"text":"要很清楚"},{"start":9660.04,"end":9662.04,"text":"原民會的立場"},{"start":9662.04,"end":9664.04,"text":"該堅持的"},{"start":9664.04,"end":9666.04,"text":"就要堅持"},{"start":9666.04,"end":9668.04,"text":"該去跟"},{"start":9668.04,"end":9670.04,"text":"各個行政院"},{"start":9670.04,"end":9672.04,"text":"部會溝通的就該做"},{"start":9672.04,"end":9674.04,"text":"我覺得這是原民會"},{"start":9674.04,"end":9676.04,"text":"最重要的一個任務"},{"start":9676.04,"end":9678.04,"text":"那很希望今天下午的"},{"start":9678.04,"end":9680.04,"text":"原住民身份法的一個討論"},{"start":9680.04,"end":9682.04,"text":"我們能夠幫助"},{"start":9682.04,"end":9684.04,"text":"我們許多想要成為"},{"start":9684.04,"end":9686.04,"text":"原住民的這一些"},{"start":9686.04,"end":9688.04,"text":"族人朋友能夠一同的"},{"start":9688.04,"end":9690.04,"text":"進入這個大家庭"},{"start":9690.04,"end":9692.04,"text":"只回答一句可以嗎"},{"start":9692.04,"end":9694.04,"text":"你會強力捍衛嗎"},{"start":9694.04,"end":9696.04,"text":"會強力捍衛嗎"},{"start":9696.04,"end":9698.04,"text":"我們下午申法案的時候我們會一起討論"},{"start":9698.04,"end":9700.04,"text":"而且委員提的這個"},{"start":9700.04,"end":9702.04,"text":"這個草案的內容事實上我們是支持"},{"start":9702.04,"end":9704.04,"text":"好"},{"start":9704.04,"end":9706.04,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":9712.04,"end":9714.04,"text":"我們下一位請中嘉賓委員發言質詢"},{"start":9724.04,"end":9726.04,"text":"主席"},{"start":9730.04,"end":9732.04,"text":"主席在黨委員先進"},{"start":9732.04,"end":9734.04,"text":"列席政府將長官員會長"},{"start":9734.04,"end":9736.04,"text":"公後夥伴記者媒體女士先生"},{"start":9736.04,"end":9738.04,"text":"那麼有請多一點"},{"start":9738.04,"end":9740.04,"text":"我們的"},{"start":9740.04,"end":9742.04,"text":"杜章梅莊主任委員"},{"start":9742.04,"end":9744.04,"text":"副主任委員"},{"start":9744.04,"end":9746.04,"text":"還有謝亞傑處長"},{"start":9746.04,"end":9748.04,"text":"以及"},{"start":9748.04,"end":9750.04,"text":"內政部的"},{"start":9750.04,"end":9752.04,"text":"地政司張哲明"},{"start":9752.04,"end":9754.04,"text":"檢認視察"},{"start":9754.04,"end":9756.04,"text":"還有我們財政部國產署"},{"start":9756.04,"end":9758.04,"text":"的羅玉華副組長"},{"start":9758.04,"end":9760.04,"text":"還有農業部"},{"start":9760.04,"end":9762.04,"text":"林保署的黃靖諺"},{"start":9762.04,"end":9764.04,"text":"副組長以及水保署的"},{"start":9764.04,"end":9766.04,"text":"簡以達檢證工程師"},{"start":9776.04,"end":9778.04,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":9778.04,"end":9780.04,"text":"副主委來請教一下"},{"start":9780.04,"end":9782.04,"text":"我就延續剛剛武麗華委員的問題"},{"start":9782.04,"end":9784.04,"text":"你在求學的時候"},{"start":9784.04,"end":9786.04,"text":"有被稱呼過三包嗎"},{"start":9786.04,"end":9788.04,"text":"山地人"},{"start":9788.04,"end":9790.04,"text":"那你覺得這個"},{"start":9790.04,"end":9792.04,"text":"或者有聽到煩惱"},{"start":9792.04,"end":9794.04,"text":"你會不會覺得不舒服"},{"start":9794.04,"end":9796.04,"text":"會啊 會很好"},{"start":9796.04,"end":9798.04,"text":"其實我在1996年也是剛好"},{"start":9798.04,"end":9800.04,"text":"是第三屆國大代表"},{"start":9800.04,"end":9802.04,"text":"但是我在1994年我就上過陽明山"},{"start":9802.04,"end":9804.04,"text":"不是為了當國大代表"},{"start":9804.04,"end":9806.04,"text":"是為了呼應很多原權團體"},{"start":9806.04,"end":9808.04,"text":"去要求正名"},{"start":9808.04,"end":9810.04,"text":"為什麼正名 為原住民正名"},{"start":9810.04,"end":9812.04,"text":"那如果說"},{"start":9812.04,"end":9814.04,"text":"原住民叫三包"},{"start":9814.04,"end":9816.04,"text":"那我叫做什麼 叫漢包"},{"start":9816.04,"end":9818.04,"text":"而且還分"},{"start":9818.04,"end":9820.04,"text":"胡老漢包跟客家漢包"},{"start":9820.04,"end":9822.04,"text":"你會接受嗎 你認為我會接受嗎"},{"start":9822.04,"end":9824.04,"text":"我當然不會接受"},{"start":9824.04,"end":9826.04,"text":"所以剛剛武衛員說到"},{"start":9826.04,"end":9828.04,"text":"將原住民區分成三地原住民"},{"start":9828.04,"end":9830.04,"text":"跟平地原住民"},{"start":9830.04,"end":9832.04,"text":"先入為主 就有將原住民的"},{"start":9832.04,"end":9834.04,"text":"生活領域局限在"},{"start":9834.04,"end":9836.04,"text":"台灣的特定地區 你覺得如何"},{"start":9836.04,"end":9838.04,"text":"你覺得這樣好嗎"},{"start":9838.04,"end":9840.04,"text":"事實上"},{"start":9840.04,"end":9842.04,"text":"不是嘛 因為整個台灣最早的時候都是原住民嘛"},{"start":9842.04,"end":9844.04,"text":"對不對 難道最早的時候"},{"start":9844.04,"end":9846.04,"text":"台灣的原住民有分區"},{"start":9846.04,"end":9848.04,"text":"住在山上跟平地的嗎"},{"start":9848.04,"end":9850.04,"text":"通通都是我們原住民的一個領域嘛"},{"start":9850.04,"end":9852.04,"text":"好 那我現在要問的"},{"start":9852.04,"end":9854.04,"text":"那如果未來我們修憲"},{"start":9854.04,"end":9856.04,"text":"將憲法當中的三元跟平元拿掉"},{"start":9856.04,"end":9858.04,"text":"就是只有原住民 你會不會支持"},{"start":9860.04,"end":9862.04,"text":"我說修憲後你會不會支持"},{"start":9862.04,"end":9864.04,"text":"會 會支持 很好"},{"start":9864.04,"end":9866.04,"text":"那現在開始進入今天本題了"},{"start":9866.04,"end":9868.04,"text":"那說到原住民的生存活動空間"},{"start":9868.04,"end":9870.04,"text":"你認為原住民保留地"},{"start":9870.04,"end":9872.04,"text":"通通都是山坡地嗎"},{"start":9874.04,"end":9876.04,"text":"保留地其實不盡然全部在山坡地"},{"start":9876.04,"end":9878.04,"text":"大部分是而已"},{"start":9878.04,"end":9880.04,"text":"是 因為山坡地的定義"},{"start":9880.04,"end":9882.04,"text":"是在100公尺以上"},{"start":9882.04,"end":9884.04,"text":"或者是海拔100公尺以下"},{"start":9884.04,"end":9886.04,"text":"坡度超過5%的"},{"start":9886.04,"end":9888.04,"text":"我們屏東很多原鄉它的土地"},{"start":9888.04,"end":9890.04,"text":"就沒有超過100公尺"},{"start":9890.04,"end":9892.04,"text":"也沒有超過5%"},{"start":9892.04,"end":9896.04,"text":"用的使用卻收到山坡地保育條例的限制"},{"start":9896.04,"end":9898.04,"text":"好 我再請問一下"},{"start":9898.04,"end":9900.04,"text":"你認為 來我請教一下那個"},{"start":9900.04,"end":9902.04,"text":"水保署的檢認"},{"start":9902.04,"end":9904.04,"text":"檢認工程師"},{"start":9904.04,"end":9906.04,"text":"是 國人好"},{"start":9906.04,"end":9908.04,"text":"山坡地保育條例對不對"},{"start":9908.04,"end":9910.04,"text":"是 建民登記應該規範在山坡地保育條例嗎"},{"start":9912.04,"end":9914.04,"text":"其實山坡地保育條例"},{"start":9914.04,"end":9916.04,"text":"國安不敢建民登記"},{"start":9916.04,"end":9918.04,"text":"不管 不管 好很好 可以請你可請回了"},{"start":9918.04,"end":9920.04,"text":"好 副主委"},{"start":9920.04,"end":9922.04,"text":"來 請你們的處長告訴你"},{"start":9922.04,"end":9924.04,"text":"昨天他在我們修山坡地保育條例的時候"},{"start":9924.04,"end":9926.04,"text":"他是不是希望"},{"start":9926.04,"end":9928.04,"text":"把建民登記的條款"},{"start":9928.04,"end":9930.04,"text":"放在山坡地保育條例裡面"},{"start":9930.04,"end":9932.04,"text":"你可以問他 有沒有"},{"start":9932.04,"end":9934.04,"text":"處長 有沒有"},{"start":9934.04,"end":9936.04,"text":"我們的規劃是要放在"},{"start":9936.04,"end":9938.04,"text":"我們這個原保地的管理"},{"start":9938.04,"end":9944.04,"text":"是嗎 我們是有原住民族保留地的一個管理辦條例嘛 對不對"},{"start":9944.04,"end":9946.04,"text":"好 那我們看一下"},{"start":9946.04,"end":9948.04,"text":"往前第一張"},{"start":9948.04,"end":9950.04,"text":"原住民保留地的法規"},{"start":9950.04,"end":9952.04,"text":"不應該訂在山坡地保育條例"},{"start":9952.04,"end":9954.04,"text":"要另訂專法 對不對"},{"start":9954.04,"end":9956.04,"text":"這是你們的主張 是"},{"start":9956.04,"end":9958.04,"text":"好 那我們來看一下 為什麼會有這個主張呢"},{"start":9958.04,"end":9960.04,"text":"我們往下看"},{"start":9960.04,"end":9962.04,"text":"其實在110年有一個108台上大致"},{"start":9962.04,"end":9964.04,"text":"也就是最高法院的民事大法庭"},{"start":9964.04,"end":9966.04,"text":"他說"},{"start":9966.04,"end":9968.04,"text":"關於非原住民以建民登記這個"},{"start":9968.04,"end":9970.04,"text":"違反了民法"},{"start":9970.04,"end":9972.04,"text":"因屬無效"},{"start":9972.04,"end":9974.04,"text":"大法庭已經做上了裁示了"},{"start":9974.04,"end":9976.04,"text":"所以關於很多建民登記的問題"},{"start":9976.04,"end":9978.04,"text":"就爆發出來了嘛 對不對"},{"start":9978.04,"end":9980.04,"text":"甚至我們來看今年"},{"start":9980.04,"end":9982.04,"text":"往下看"},{"start":9982.04,"end":9984.04,"text":"今年14年有個憲判"},{"start":9984.04,"end":9986.04,"text":"去年有個憲判"},{"start":9986.04,"end":9988.04,"text":"這個憲判說什麼 他是不予受理喔"},{"start":9988.04,"end":9990.04,"text":"這個憲判說"},{"start":9990.04,"end":9992.04,"text":"所謂的 我們看內容"},{"start":9992.04,"end":9996.04,"text":"原住民保留地之所有權取得資格與審查程序及部落參與等"},{"start":9996.04,"end":10000.04,"text":"是原住民保留地私有制度之核心事項"},{"start":10000.04,"end":10002.04,"text":"因屬國會保留事項"},{"start":10002.04,"end":10004.04,"text":"所以他們不介入"},{"start":10004.04,"end":10006.04,"text":"國會保留 所以他說這個不屬於"},{"start":10006.04,"end":10008.04,"text":"我們憲法法庭裁判的範圍"},{"start":10008.04,"end":10010.04,"text":"但是"},{"start":10010.04,"end":10012.04,"text":"但是過去"},{"start":10012.04,"end":10014.04,"text":"卻利用三波地保育條例第三條第六項"},{"start":10014.04,"end":10016.04,"text":"的控排授權"},{"start":10016.04,"end":10018.04,"text":"以至於中央原住民主管機關"},{"start":10018.04,"end":10020.04,"text":"需要"},{"start":10020.04,"end":10022.04,"text":"必須要另訂原住民保留地開發"},{"start":10022.04,"end":10024.04,"text":"管理辦法"},{"start":10024.04,"end":10026.04,"text":"管理辦法是不是法律"},{"start":10026.04,"end":10028.04,"text":"不是"},{"start":10028.04,"end":10030.04,"text":"不符合國會保留原則"},{"start":10030.04,"end":10032.04,"text":"不符合一定要國會立法 對不對"},{"start":10032.04,"end":10034.04,"text":"所以違反了憲法第23條的法律明確性規定"},{"start":10034.04,"end":10036.04,"text":"所以"},{"start":10036.04,"end":10038.04,"text":"行政院有沒有後來"},{"start":10038.04,"end":10040.04,"text":"原民會有沒有送出"},{"start":10040.04,"end":10042.04,"text":"這樣的一個專法 原保地的條例專法"},{"start":10042.04,"end":10044.04,"text":"這個我們在"},{"start":10044.04,"end":10046.04,"text":"110年曾經送過了"},{"start":10046.04,"end":10048.04,"text":"有 我這裡拿到了"},{"start":10048.04,"end":10050.04,"text":"111年"},{"start":10050.04,"end":10052.04,"text":"行政院有送到立法院來"},{"start":10052.04,"end":10054.04,"text":"立法院怎麼處理"},{"start":10054.04,"end":10056.04,"text":"副主委你知道嗎"},{"start":10056.04,"end":10058.04,"text":"後來有一些討論"},{"start":10058.04,"end":10060.04,"text":"有一些爭議的部分"},{"start":10060.04,"end":10062.04,"text":"後來有一些委員包括在場原住民委員反對"},{"start":10062.04,"end":10064.04,"text":"所以他就沒有通過了"},{"start":10064.04,"end":10066.04,"text":"在場原住民委員反對"},{"start":10066.04,"end":10068.04,"text":"原民會在行政院"},{"start":10068.04,"end":10070.04,"text":"送來的原住民主保留地的條例"},{"start":10070.04,"end":10072.04,"text":"管理條例"},{"start":10072.04,"end":10074.04,"text":"我不懂"},{"start":10074.04,"end":10076.04,"text":"我不懂"},{"start":10076.04,"end":10078.04,"text":"原住民的委員"},{"start":10078.04,"end":10080.04,"text":"當行政院訂定專法"},{"start":10080.04,"end":10082.04,"text":"符合憲法的要旨"},{"start":10082.04,"end":10084.04,"text":"符合到法庭的要求"},{"start":10084.04,"end":10086.04,"text":"居然反對"},{"start":10086.04,"end":10088.04,"text":"副主委你們偷偷告訴我"},{"start":10088.04,"end":10090.04,"text":"到底那時候你有沒有在原民會了"},{"start":10090.04,"end":10092.04,"text":"當時原住民委員"},{"start":10092.04,"end":10094.04,"text":"那幾位委員"},{"start":10094.04,"end":10096.04,"text":"為什麼要反對"},{"start":10096.04,"end":10098.04,"text":"在場你不好意思講嗎"},{"start":10098.04,"end":10100.04,"text":"因為委員在場你不好意思講嗎"},{"start":10100.04,"end":10102.04,"text":"沒有"},{"start":10102.04,"end":10104.04,"text":"沒有要你發言時間"},{"start":10104.04,"end":10106.04,"text":"你昨天都講過了"},{"start":10106.04,"end":10108.04,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":10108.04,"end":10110.04,"text":"那時候你講的"},{"start":10110.04,"end":10112.04,"text":"就是因為這個關係"},{"start":10112.04,"end":10114.04,"text":"到目前"},{"start":10114.04,"end":10116.04,"text":"戒棄不連續"},{"start":10116.04,"end":10118.04,"text":"法庭條例結果"},{"start":10118.04,"end":10120.04,"text":"功敗垂成"},{"start":10120.04,"end":10122.04,"text":"因為少數部分原住民委員"},{"start":10122.04,"end":10124.04,"text":"基於私立反對"},{"start":10124.04,"end":10126.04,"text":"結果就打消了"},{"start":10126.04,"end":10128.04,"text":"本屆立法院行政院"},{"start":10128.04,"end":10130.04,"text":"有沒有要再送出來"},{"start":10130.04,"end":10132.04,"text":"目前我們已經送到行政院了"},{"start":10132.04,"end":10134.04,"text":"你們有沒有關於建民登記的規定"},{"start":10134.04,"end":10136.04,"text":"有"},{"start":10136.04,"end":10138.04,"text":"包含剛剛三十七條"},{"start":10138.04,"end":10140.04,"text":"全部在那個版本"},{"start":10140.04,"end":10142.04,"text":"如果這個專法沒有趕快在立法院通過"},{"start":10142.04,"end":10144.04,"text":"剛剛所秀出來的"},{"start":10144.04,"end":10146.04,"text":"這些原住民族保留地的相關產權爭議"},{"start":10146.04,"end":10148.04,"text":"透過建民登記"},{"start":10148.04,"end":10150.04,"text":"有沒有法律可以處理"},{"start":10150.04,"end":10152.04,"text":"沒有"},{"start":10152.04,"end":10154.04,"text":"所以我在這裡"},{"start":10154.04,"end":10156.04,"text":"我要請"},{"start":10156.04,"end":10158.04,"text":"這麼多人在"},{"start":10158.04,"end":10160.04,"text":"這裡面我為什麼要請林保署呢"},{"start":10160.04,"end":10162.04,"text":"林保署負責我們"},{"start":10162.04,"end":10164.04,"text":"環境保育"},{"start":10164.04,"end":10166.04,"text":"裡面有沒有很多元寶地"},{"start":10166.04,"end":10168.04,"text":"你們怎麼處理遇到這些爭議"},{"start":10168.04,"end":10170.04,"text":"遇到建民登記"},{"start":10170.04,"end":10172.04,"text":"到底要處分行為人"},{"start":10172.04,"end":10174.04,"text":"有沒有很多的爭議"},{"start":10174.04,"end":10176.04,"text":"我再另外問一下"},{"start":10176.04,"end":10178.04,"text":"我們國產署"},{"start":10178.04,"end":10180.04,"text":"我們國產署管轄用地"},{"start":10180.04,"end":10182.04,"text":"有沒有跟元寶地有一些認定的問題"},{"start":10184.04,"end":10186.04,"text":"有認定產權"},{"start":10186.04,"end":10188.04,"text":"借鑒的問題"},{"start":10188.04,"end":10190.04,"text":"如果沒有這個專法"},{"start":10190.04,"end":10192.04,"text":"我們國有財產"},{"start":10192.04,"end":10194.04,"text":"不管是國有林地還是國有土地的部分"},{"start":10194.04,"end":10196.04,"text":"有沒有辦法釐清哪些是"},{"start":10196.04,"end":10198.04,"text":"我們屬於原住民的土地"},{"start":10198.04,"end":10200.04,"text":"你們遇到建民登記怎麼辦"},{"start":10200.04,"end":10204.04,"text":"建民登記的審理的權責是地政單位"},{"start":10204.04,"end":10206.04,"text":"很好你幫他叫地政單位"},{"start":10206.04,"end":10208.04,"text":"來地政司"},{"start":10208.04,"end":10210.04,"text":"張捷克視察"},{"start":10210.04,"end":10212.04,"text":"你們怎麼處理"},{"start":10212.04,"end":10214.04,"text":"目前建民登記如果是施選部分都要訴請法院來處理"},{"start":10214.04,"end":10216.04,"text":"訴請法院"},{"start":10216.04,"end":10218.04,"text":"一個案子case by case"},{"start":10218.04,"end":10220.04,"text":"所以未來的"},{"start":10220.04,"end":10222.04,"text":"原住民保留地的處理條例"},{"start":10222.04,"end":10224.04,"text":"如果送到本院來"},{"start":10224.04,"end":10226.04,"text":"會在哪裡審理"},{"start":10226.04,"end":10228.04,"text":"會在內政委員會"},{"start":10228.04,"end":10230.04,"text":"會不會有內政部"},{"start":10230.04,"end":10232.04,"text":"會不會有地政司"},{"start":10232.04,"end":10234.04,"text":"是不是可以跟這些問題做一個完全正本清源的處理"},{"start":10234.04,"end":10236.04,"text":"好副主任"},{"start":10236.04,"end":10238.04,"text":"我請教一下你支不支持"},{"start":10238.04,"end":10240.04,"text":"關於原住民保留地關於建民登記"},{"start":10240.04,"end":10242.04,"text":"這些長期來的爭議"},{"start":10242.04,"end":10244.04,"text":"困擾我們原住民朋友的"},{"start":10244.04,"end":10246.04,"text":"希望有個專法通過後"},{"start":10246.04,"end":10248.04,"text":"送到本院來審理"},{"start":10248.04,"end":10250.04,"text":"我們這個內政委員來審理"},{"start":10250.04,"end":10252.04,"text":"你支不支持"},{"start":10252.04,"end":10254.04,"text":"這個一直都是原民規規劃希望朝這個方向"},{"start":10254.04,"end":10256.04,"text":"是的你好好告訴你們處長"},{"start":10256.04,"end":10258.04,"text":"昨天在我們經濟委員會"},{"start":10258.04,"end":10260.04,"text":"我們在修三波地保育條例的時候"},{"start":10260.04,"end":10262.04,"text":"他卻配合特定委員"},{"start":10262.04,"end":10264.04,"text":"要把建民登記"},{"start":10264.04,"end":10266.04,"text":"放在原來本質"},{"start":10266.04,"end":10268.04,"text":"完全不同的三波地保育條例"},{"start":10268.04,"end":10270.04,"text":"我不是在說他"},{"start":10270.04,"end":10272.04,"text":"違背我們原住民的權益"},{"start":10272.04,"end":10274.04,"text":"但是可能他在當下"},{"start":10274.04,"end":10276.04,"text":"因為管理條例太久了"},{"start":10276.04,"end":10278.04,"text":"那我們有一個問題"},{"start":10278.04,"end":10280.04,"text":"如果三波地保育條例阻擋就通過了"},{"start":10280.04,"end":10282.04,"text":"所以我們才會有這樣的一個想法"},{"start":10282.04,"end":10284.04,"text":"所以你要趕快在行政委員會推動"},{"start":10284.04,"end":10288.04,"text":"原住民族保留地管理條例"},{"start":10288.04,"end":10290.04,"text":"要趕快送到本院來審查"},{"start":10290.04,"end":10292.04,"text":"送到本院的內政委員來審查"},{"start":10292.04,"end":10294.04,"text":"我今天我在經濟委員會"},{"start":10294.04,"end":10296.04,"text":"我特別來跟你們告這個狀"},{"start":10296.04,"end":10298.04,"text":"不是告處長的狀"},{"start":10298.04,"end":10300.04,"text":"因為處長他人在屋檐下不得不低頭"},{"start":10300.04,"end":10302.04,"text":"對不對"},{"start":10302.04,"end":10304.04,"text":"所以委員在那邊要求"},{"start":10304.04,"end":10306.04,"text":"他配合的把這些條文法規生出來"},{"start":10306.04,"end":10308.04,"text":"這是不對的"},{"start":10308.04,"end":10310.04,"text":"所以我希望原住民委員會加油好不好"},{"start":10310.04,"end":10312.04,"text":"不要再被人家說成"},{"start":10312.04,"end":10314.04,"text":"三包跟漢包好不好"},{"start":10314.04,"end":10316.04,"text":"不要再有3D原住民跟平地委員自稱好不好"},{"start":10316.04,"end":10318.04,"text":"我是修憲委員會的召集委員"},{"start":10318.04,"end":10320.04,"text":"我會來排"},{"start":10320.04,"end":10322.04,"text":"我們這個修憲委員會"},{"start":10322.04,"end":10324.04,"text":"有很多議題"},{"start":10324.04,"end":10326.04,"text":"許委員很關心"},{"start":10326.04,"end":10328.04,"text":"昨天有公聽會"},{"start":10328.04,"end":10330.04,"text":"我們未來我們努力的"},{"start":10330.04,"end":10332.04,"text":"不只讓原住民的證明"},{"start":10332.04,"end":10334.04,"text":"能夠徹底完全成功"},{"start":10334.04,"end":10336.04,"text":"也讓原住民族相關在台灣應有的權益"},{"start":10336.04,"end":10338.04,"text":"都得到國會立法的完整保障"},{"start":10338.04,"end":10340.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":10340.04,"end":10342.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10370.04,"end":10372.04,"text":"主委"},{"start":10372.04,"end":10374.04,"text":"之前就在關心說"},{"start":10374.04,"end":10376.04,"text":"有一個第四條的規定"},{"start":10376.04,"end":10378.04,"text":"就是原住民生親想要收養非原住民子女"},{"start":10378.04,"end":10380.04,"text":"變為孩子取得原住民身份"},{"start":10380.04,"end":10382.04,"text":"一定要滿40歲"},{"start":10382.04,"end":10384.04,"text":"這個部分我想說上次有討論過"},{"start":10384.04,"end":10386.04,"text":"那我現在想知道"},{"start":10386.04,"end":10388.04,"text":"我們委員會的態度"},{"start":10388.04,"end":10390.04,"text":"因為現在常常會到"},{"start":10390.04,"end":10392.04,"text":"實際上的案例就是說"},{"start":10392.04,"end":10394.04,"text":"你結婚20幾歲結婚"},{"start":10394.04,"end":10396.04,"text":"結果到30歲還沒有生孩子的時候"},{"start":10396.04,"end":10398.04,"text":"你當然會想說可能想要領養小孩"},{"start":10398.04,"end":10400.04,"text":"不過現在要40歲以上"},{"start":10400.04,"end":10402.04,"text":"我是覺得實在是強人所難"},{"start":10402.04,"end":10404.04,"text":"而且大家也都知道說"},{"start":10404.04,"end":10406.04,"text":"不孕症大概是結婚3年以後"},{"start":10406.04,"end":10408.04,"text":"就可以領養小孩"},{"start":10408.04,"end":10410.04,"text":"不過現在這個規定是希望說"},{"start":10410.04,"end":10412.04,"text":"原本可以針對這個40歲"},{"start":10412.04,"end":10414.04,"text":"這樣的一個數字能夠做檢討"},{"start":10416.04,"end":10418.04,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":10418.04,"end":10420.04,"text":"當然你提那個說"},{"start":10420.04,"end":10422.04,"text":"3年未能自然受孕這個部分"},{"start":10422.04,"end":10424.04,"text":"我們是有些保留"},{"start":10424.04,"end":10426.04,"text":"因為結婚以後有沒有"},{"start":10426.04,"end":10428.04,"text":"我們都是感情什麼我們不知道"},{"start":10428.04,"end":10430.04,"text":"但是經過醫療機構診斷為不應"},{"start":10430.04,"end":10432.04,"text":"這個導致可以去"},{"start":10432.04,"end":10434.04,"text":"去朝這個方向去立法"},{"start":10434.04,"end":10436.04,"text":"好現在我們這次的修法裡面"},{"start":10436.04,"end":10438.04,"text":"我想說是不是有討論到"},{"start":10438.04,"end":10440.04,"text":"我們恆春半島有一群排灣族"},{"start":10440.04,"end":10442.04,"text":"沒有原住民的身份"},{"start":10442.04,"end":10444.04,"text":"因為他們不想變成平埔原住民"},{"start":10444.04,"end":10446.04,"text":"他們確實是排灣族"},{"start":10446.04,"end":10448.04,"text":"就是設定公園上面那個"},{"start":10448.04,"end":10450.04,"text":"我們叫Guard的部落"},{"start":10450.04,"end":10452.04,"text":"他們一直想要"},{"start":10452.04,"end":10454.04,"text":"變成排灣族可是這個"},{"start":10454.04,"end":10456.04,"text":"立法無懼這個部分這次的"},{"start":10456.04,"end":10458.04,"text":"修法裡面有沒有包含到他們"},{"start":10458.04,"end":10460.04,"text":"因為現在平埔族群身份法"},{"start":10460.04,"end":10462.04,"text":"已經立法了"},{"start":10462.04,"end":10464.04,"text":"如果按照現行所有的規定他們就是"},{"start":10464.04,"end":10466.04,"text":"要透過這個身份法來變成"},{"start":10466.04,"end":10468.04,"text":"來轉換成原住民"},{"start":10468.04,"end":10470.04,"text":"那如果說他要回到原住民"},{"start":10470.04,"end":10472.04,"text":"身份法其實在法條上可能"},{"start":10472.04,"end":10474.04,"text":"沒有辦法支持因為"},{"start":10474.04,"end":10476.04,"text":"他會混淆了很多"},{"start":10476.04,"end":10478.04,"text":"如果我們修了身份法以後會"},{"start":10478.04,"end":10480.04,"text":"造成平埔族群身份法跟身份法"},{"start":10480.04,"end":10482.04,"text":"之間是混淆的"},{"start":10482.04,"end":10484.04,"text":"所以在適用上會有很大的"},{"start":10484.04,"end":10486.04,"text":"這個漢格"},{"start":10486.04,"end":10488.04,"text":"第二個問題就是我們講到"},{"start":10488.04,"end":10490.04,"text":"民族議會"},{"start":10490.04,"end":10492.04,"text":"我看到你們的回應是說法治"},{"start":10492.04,"end":10494.04,"text":"尚未完備我想說是不是應該盤點"},{"start":10494.04,"end":10496.04,"text":"民族議會"},{"start":10496.04,"end":10498.04,"text":"或是類似的組織的運作現況"},{"start":10498.04,"end":10500.04,"text":"提出分族諮商及法治化"},{"start":10500.04,"end":10502.04,"text":"的一個期程而不是一直在"},{"start":10502.04,"end":10504.04,"text":"看等待他們到底什麼時候可以完備"},{"start":10504.04,"end":10506.04,"text":"現在民族議會"},{"start":10506.04,"end":10508.04,"text":"事實上有幾個族群有成立"},{"start":10508.04,"end":10510.04,"text":"他們也在進行"},{"start":10510.04,"end":10512.04,"text":"事實上我們也在收集他們在"},{"start":10512.04,"end":10514.04,"text":"這個過程裡面的相關的"},{"start":10514.04,"end":10516.04,"text":"經驗甚至他們處理的事務"},{"start":10516.04,"end":10518.04,"text":"會"},{"start":10518.04,"end":10520.04,"text":"可以協助我們在未來我們要"},{"start":10520.04,"end":10522.04,"text":"在民族議會要立法的話有一些"},{"start":10522.04,"end":10524.04,"text":"參考依據他的程序"},{"start":10524.04,"end":10526.04,"text":"他的內容他的權責是什麼"},{"start":10526.04,"end":10528.04,"text":"我想都是很好的一個"},{"start":10528.04,"end":10530.04,"text":"經驗的接近所以我在看"},{"start":10530.04,"end":10532.04,"text":"目前特別好的就是盧凱跟排灣"},{"start":10532.04,"end":10534.04,"text":"那如果他們做得特別好的話是不是"},{"start":10534.04,"end":10536.04,"text":"可以做其他主委的一個參考"},{"start":10536.04,"end":10538.04,"text":"的確"},{"start":10538.04,"end":10540.04,"text":"像那個務台的盧凱"},{"start":10540.04,"end":10542.04,"text":"族群議會就非常的完整"},{"start":10542.04,"end":10544.04,"text":"那文化"},{"start":10544.04,"end":10546.04,"text":"另外一個問題說文化產業就是說"},{"start":10546.04,"end":10548.04,"text":"法律上可以申請租稅"},{"start":10548.04,"end":10550.04,"text":"的減免可是不代表實際上"},{"start":10550.04,"end":10552.04,"text":"民族民族的這些產業"},{"start":10552.04,"end":10554.04,"text":"實際上可以申請的到所以是不是"},{"start":10554.04,"end":10556.04,"text":"原文會應該會跟文化部財政部提出"},{"start":10556.04,"end":10558.04,"text":"申請的建樹合組"},{"start":10558.04,"end":10560.04,"text":"入宮主要的站外"},{"start":10560.04,"end":10562.04,"text":"是這個單一的一個輔導的窗口"},{"start":10562.04,"end":10564.04,"text":"這原先建設我們是在講"},{"start":10564.04,"end":10566.04,"text":"百億的基金如果不是"},{"start":10566.04,"end":10568.04,"text":"基金的話是不是原文會應該提出同等功能的"},{"start":10568.04,"end":10570.04,"text":"一個替代方案把各部會"},{"start":10570.04,"end":10572.04,"text":"分散在交通水利通訊環境"},{"start":10572.04,"end":10574.04,"text":"公共設施這些計畫整合起來"},{"start":10574.04,"end":10576.04,"text":"然後建立跨年度的需求"},{"start":10576.04,"end":10578.04,"text":"清澈裁員跟追蹤的機制"},{"start":10578.04,"end":10580.04,"text":"然後就是說"},{"start":10580.04,"end":10582.04,"text":"用那個不能接受基金"},{"start":10582.04,"end":10584.04,"text":"這兩個字的這個來否定"},{"start":10584.04,"end":10586.04,"text":"我們目前想要做的這個規劃"},{"start":10588.04,"end":10590.04,"text":"委員提的這些草案我們都尊重但是裡面有一些"},{"start":10590.04,"end":10592.04,"text":"可能涉及到其他部會還有"},{"start":10592.04,"end":10594.04,"text":"裁員的部分事實上"},{"start":10594.04,"end":10596.04,"text":"部會裡面不能夠直接的說"},{"start":10596.04,"end":10598.04,"text":"認為他是可行或不可行"},{"start":10598.04,"end":10600.04,"text":"那另外也有這個我們的財政"},{"start":10600.04,"end":10602.04,"text":"收支發揮法或者是我們的那個"},{"start":10602.04,"end":10604.04,"text":"財政的條例相關的"},{"start":10604.04,"end":10606.04,"text":"你要在法律裡面明定"},{"start":10606.04,"end":10608.04,"text":"你的金額"},{"start":10608.04,"end":10610.04,"text":"你必須要有來源"},{"start":10610.04,"end":10612.04,"text":"我想這些都是相關的目的事業主管"},{"start":10612.04,"end":10614.04,"text":"機關的法規我們尊重"},{"start":10614.04,"end":10616.04,"text":"但是待會協調看看他們的意見怎麼樣"},{"start":10616.04,"end":10618.04,"text":"好在最後就是講到那個"},{"start":10618.04,"end":10620.04,"text":"原住民的諮商的同意權"},{"start":10620.04,"end":10622.04,"text":"的部分因為我們"},{"start":10622.04,"end":10624.04,"text":"的最高法院"},{"start":10624.04,"end":10626.04,"text":"487號判決就指出說原住民"},{"start":10626.04,"end":10628.04,"text":"傳統旅遊跟不限公有"},{"start":10628.04,"end":10630.04,"text":"跟私有嘛"},{"start":10630.04,"end":10632.04,"text":"那我想說目前常常聽到就是"},{"start":10632.04,"end":10634.04,"text":"宜蘭或是哪裡要開發地熱"},{"start":10634.04,"end":10636.04,"text":"或者是採礦"},{"start":10636.04,"end":10638.04,"text":"然後常常引起一些紛爭甚至上次"},{"start":10638.04,"end":10640.04,"text":"還產生一個罷免村長的一個"},{"start":10640.04,"end":10642.04,"text":"動作我是覺得說"},{"start":10642.04,"end":10644.04,"text":"準備何時提出是土地開發"},{"start":10644.04,"end":10646.04,"text":"希望能夠分級標準跟具體判斷"},{"start":10646.04,"end":10648.04,"text":"那個指標什麼時候"},{"start":10648.04,"end":10650.04,"text":"來檢討原住民土地跟不合範圍"},{"start":10650.04,"end":10652.04,"text":"土地化釋的辦法相關的行政規章"},{"start":10652.04,"end":10654.04,"text":"在新的制度完成以前"},{"start":10654.04,"end":10656.04,"text":"如果地方政府其他"},{"start":10656.04,"end":10658.04,"text":"不會收到私有土地上的"},{"start":10658.04,"end":10660.04,"text":"重大開發申請我們要依據什麼樣的"},{"start":10660.04,"end":10662.04,"text":"標準判斷是否涉及"},{"start":10662.04,"end":10664.04,"text":"傳統旅遊哪些部落是屬於關係"},{"start":10664.04,"end":10666.04,"text":"部落然後啟動何種"},{"start":10666.04,"end":10668.04,"text":"諮商的程序我是想說應該"},{"start":10668.04,"end":10670.04,"text":"有一個三個層級的研議"},{"start":10670.04,"end":10672.04,"text":"那我想說採礦"},{"start":10672.04,"end":10674.04,"text":"廢棄處理能源設施"},{"start":10674.04,"end":10676.04,"text":"大規模土地開發重大土地"},{"start":10676.04,"end":10678.04,"text":"的一些高影響的案件"},{"start":10678.04,"end":10680.04,"text":"是不是應該就要進行"},{"start":10680.04,"end":10682.04,"text":"完整的諮商跟部落同意"},{"start":10682.04,"end":10684.04,"text":"若是可能只是可能"},{"start":10684.04,"end":10686.04,"text":"影響部落文化環境傳統利用"},{"start":10686.04,"end":10688.04,"text":"跟生計的一些周度影響案件"},{"start":10688.04,"end":10690.04,"text":"是不是就完成資訊公開"},{"start":10690.04,"end":10692.04,"text":"實質諮商參與決策"},{"start":10692.04,"end":10694.04,"text":"跟利益分享這些"},{"start":10694.04,"end":10696.04,"text":"動作就可以了"},{"start":10696.04,"end":10698.04,"text":"一般作載的修上小規模"},{"start":10698.04,"end":10700.04,"text":"的農作或是對部落影響"},{"start":10700.04,"end":10702.04,"text":"輕易的日常使用"},{"start":10702.04,"end":10704.04,"text":"我們就簡化到的程序跟合理排除"},{"start":10704.04,"end":10706.04,"text":"我想說明年會是不是"},{"start":10706.04,"end":10708.04,"text":"應該去做一個"},{"start":10708.04,"end":10710.04,"text":"類似像讓對方政府"},{"start":10710.04,"end":10712.04,"text":"經濟部環境部能源部這些"},{"start":10712.04,"end":10714.04,"text":"機關有所依循"},{"start":10714.04,"end":10716.04,"text":"而不是說讓各個機關做各自的解讀"},{"start":10716.04,"end":10718.04,"text":"同樣的案件出現不同的標準"},{"start":10718.04,"end":10720.04,"text":"然後再又通過花很多的時間"},{"start":10720.04,"end":10722.04,"text":"一次一次的走進法院"},{"start":10722.04,"end":10724.04,"text":"才能夠爭取本來就應該"},{"start":10724.04,"end":10726.04,"text":"收到保障"},{"start":10726.04,"end":10728.04,"text":"謝謝委員的提點"},{"start":10728.04,"end":10730.04,"text":"那剛委員提的這麼多"},{"start":10730.04,"end":10732.04,"text":"我想有一個諮商同意的部分"},{"start":10732.04,"end":10734.04,"text":"事實上這個辦法我們也在研修中"},{"start":10734.04,"end":10736.04,"text":"那也在最後的階段"},{"start":10736.04,"end":10738.04,"text":"馬上就會做對外的公布"},{"start":10738.04,"end":10740.04,"text":"那另外有關於"},{"start":10740.04,"end":10742.04,"text":"這個土地公司有涉及到"},{"start":10742.04,"end":10744.04,"text":"可能是法律未接的部分"},{"start":10744.04,"end":10746.04,"text":"我想我們尊重大院的審議"},{"start":10746.04,"end":10748.04,"text":"但這裡面也會跟憲法有一些"},{"start":10748.04,"end":10750.04,"text":"保障人民財產權的部分"},{"start":10750.04,"end":10752.04,"text":"另外相關民法"},{"start":10752.04,"end":10754.04,"text":"可能都有需要討論的空間"},{"start":10754.04,"end":10756.04,"text":"那我們也尊重業務主管"},{"start":10756.04,"end":10758.04,"text":"喜歡他們的意見以上"},{"start":10758.04,"end":10760.04,"text":"那還是希望我們的部落"},{"start":10760.04,"end":10762.04,"text":"諮商同意能夠做分級的規劃"},{"start":10762.04,"end":10764.04,"text":"早點進行"},{"start":10764.04,"end":10766.04,"text":"那請副座委請回請我們馬洛斯"},{"start":10774.04,"end":10776.04,"text":"馬上來委員好"},{"start":10776.04,"end":10778.04,"text":"就是針對防災安全通訊延宕"},{"start":10778.04,"end":10780.04,"text":"六年半更合約的管理"},{"start":10780.04,"end":10782.04,"text":"是不是這個部分你有了解嗎"},{"start":10782.04,"end":10784.04,"text":"有"},{"start":10784.04,"end":10786.04,"text":"那我要稍微跟委員補充"},{"start":10786.04,"end":10788.04,"text":"就是說其實我們"},{"start":10788.04,"end":10790.04,"text":"原本規劃的37站"},{"start":10790.04,"end":10792.04,"text":"其實已經完成了32站"},{"start":10792.04,"end":10794.04,"text":"那執行率是86%"},{"start":10794.04,"end":10796.04,"text":"所以在收聽的覆蓋率"},{"start":10796.04,"end":10798.04,"text":"其實是沒有問題"},{"start":10798.04,"end":10800.04,"text":"那現在就是我們目前"},{"start":10800.04,"end":10802.04,"text":"今天所要報告的是"},{"start":10802.04,"end":10804.04,"text":"有關於訊號源的補充"},{"start":10804.04,"end":10806.04,"text":"所以在收聽的部分"},{"start":10806.04,"end":10808.04,"text":"應該是如期"},{"start":10808.04,"end":10810.04,"text":"逐漸在完成當中"},{"start":10810.04,"end":10812.04,"text":"想說這邊有寫說完成率"},{"start":10812.04,"end":10814.04,"text":"就是15%就是東河"},{"start":10814.04,"end":10816.04,"text":"海端跟山湧"},{"start":10816.04,"end":10818.04,"text":"那我想說這個原委會跟原委會"},{"start":10818.04,"end":10820.04,"text":"原委會在長達六年半中"},{"start":10820.04,"end":10822.04,"text":"履約的差和跟廣告的一個"},{"start":10822.04,"end":10824.04,"text":"預警制度是不是有很大的缺失呢"},{"start":10824.04,"end":10828.04,"text":"我們也跟主管機關有做回報"},{"start":10828.04,"end":10830.04,"text":"那特別是"},{"start":10830.04,"end":10832.04,"text":"這個廠商他一直不履約"},{"start":10832.04,"end":10834.04,"text":"那另外就是說"},{"start":10834.04,"end":10836.04,"text":"還延宕很多的行政作業"},{"start":10836.04,"end":10838.04,"text":"那我們也對這個廠商"},{"start":10838.04,"end":10840.04,"text":"即將去宣告他的"},{"start":10840.04,"end":10842.04,"text":"不良廠商的資料"},{"start":10842.04,"end":10844.04,"text":"所以在這個部分我們會再加強進度"},{"start":10844.04,"end":10846.04,"text":"那就是四元月的預算"},{"start":10846.04,"end":10848.04,"text":"四元月的預算就是說可能"},{"start":10848.04,"end":10850.04,"text":"在科目的流用跟財政紀律"},{"start":10850.04,"end":10852.04,"text":"跟司法性的爭議"},{"start":10852.04,"end":10854.04,"text":"這邊看到是不是真正跟主委相關的是"},{"start":10854.04,"end":10856.04,"text":"只有10.7%"},{"start":10856.04,"end":10858.04,"text":"那流用的部分"},{"start":10858.04,"end":10860.04,"text":"比如說像活動策劃"},{"start":10860.04,"end":10862.04,"text":"硬體這些國際交流跟接待"},{"start":10862.04,"end":10864.04,"text":"甚至是高達了89.26%"},{"start":10864.04,"end":10866.04,"text":"我是覺得說"},{"start":10866.04,"end":10868.04,"text":"我們這個部分是不是應該"},{"start":10868.04,"end":10870.04,"text":"要提出一個"},{"start":10870.04,"end":10872.04,"text":"合理性跟司法性的專案調查"},{"start":10872.04,"end":10874.04,"text":"然後讓他"},{"start":10874.04,"end":10876.04,"text":"我們應該要回歸到正常"},{"start":10876.04,"end":10878.04,"text":"不是應該流用"},{"start":10878.04,"end":10880.04,"text":"應該用在語言發展的呢"},{"start":10880.04,"end":10882.04,"text":"卻變成要用來做這些"},{"start":10882.04,"end":10884.04,"text":"大型上市這個硬體"},{"start":10884.04,"end":10886.04,"text":"跟接待費用是不是"},{"start":10886.04,"end":10888.04,"text":"這個部分是不是有跟主管機關"},{"start":10888.04,"end":10890.04,"text":"做過溝通"},{"start":10890.04,"end":10892.04,"text":"報告委員這個部分"},{"start":10892.04,"end":10894.04,"text":"我們會精益求精再去"},{"start":10894.04,"end":10896.04,"text":"做相關執行上的調整"},{"start":10896.04,"end":10898.04,"text":"那要跟委員報告的是"},{"start":10898.04,"end":10900.04,"text":"就是國語方案"},{"start":10900.04,"end":10902.04,"text":"他很大的一個部分是"},{"start":10902.04,"end":10904.04,"text":"對主語的行銷啦"},{"start":10904.04,"end":10906.04,"text":"所以除了電視的"},{"start":10906.04,"end":10908.04,"text":"自播產製時數之外"},{"start":10908.04,"end":10910.04,"text":"還包括怎麼樣行銷主語"},{"start":10910.04,"end":10912.04,"text":"所以在這一塊我們"},{"start":10912.04,"end":10914.04,"text":"也很重視那特別國語方案"},{"start":10914.04,"end":10916.04,"text":"他強調的是用新的策略"},{"start":10916.04,"end":10918.04,"text":"去推動主語的"},{"start":10918.04,"end":10920.04,"text":"推廣所以在這一塊我們"},{"start":10920.04,"end":10922.04,"text":"會精益求精謝謝委員"},{"start":10922.04,"end":10924.04,"text":"就是常常看到就是臉書上"},{"start":10924.04,"end":10926.04,"text":"報應的大部分就是參賽的選手"},{"start":10926.04,"end":10928.04,"text":"他們沒有得到"},{"start":10928.04,"end":10930.04,"text":"相當的比如說比賽獎金"},{"start":10930.04,"end":10932.04,"text":"或是相當的一個類似像"},{"start":10932.04,"end":10934.04,"text":"尊重啊我是覺得"},{"start":10934.04,"end":10936.04,"text":"正在辦比賽最重要的是選手"},{"start":10936.04,"end":10938.04,"text":"不是嗎所以我覺得"},{"start":10938.04,"end":10940.04,"text":"看到很多就是在支付實體經濟"},{"start":10940.04,"end":10942.04,"text":"舞台工程無人機"},{"start":10942.04,"end":10944.04,"text":"這些國際課票"},{"start":10944.04,"end":10946.04,"text":"這樣的一個費用那我是覺得"},{"start":10946.04,"end":10948.04,"text":"應該是先滿足我們比賽選手"},{"start":10948.04,"end":10950.04,"text":"的安全跟他們實際的生活"},{"start":10950.04,"end":10952.04,"text":"的補貼或者是說比賽獎金"},{"start":10952.04,"end":10954.04,"text":"這個部分我是覺得應該先重視"},{"start":10954.04,"end":10956.04,"text":"然後才有這些後面的"},{"start":10956.04,"end":10958.04,"text":"好第三個就是這次你很辛苦"},{"start":10958.04,"end":10960.04,"text":"去了八丹島我們也曾經在"},{"start":10960.04,"end":10962.04,"text":"實體下有過聊過這些"},{"start":10962.04,"end":10964.04,"text":"你的偉大的一些"},{"start":10964.04,"end":10966.04,"text":"計畫不過卻很遺憾的是"},{"start":10966.04,"end":10968.04,"text":"用比如說大量"},{"start":10968.04,"end":10970.04,"text":"淨水並充實的一個驚險的"},{"start":10970.04,"end":10972.04,"text":"情況這3850萬的"},{"start":10972.04,"end":10974.04,"text":"一個運算海陸計畫"},{"start":10974.04,"end":10976.04,"text":"是不是就這樣子你覺得是"},{"start":10976.04,"end":10978.04,"text":"付諸流水還是就像你們原本會"},{"start":10978.04,"end":10980.04,"text":"會的所呈現的好幾千個"},{"start":10980.04,"end":10982.04,"text":"這樣的一個得到的一個讚美"},{"start":10982.04,"end":10984.04,"text":"你怎麼做取捨"},{"start":10984.04,"end":10986.04,"text":"是謝謝委員"},{"start":10986.04,"end":10988.04,"text":"的詢問"},{"start":10988.04,"end":10990.04,"text":"我們的這個航海計畫"},{"start":10990.04,"end":10992.04,"text":"有一個部分很大的"},{"start":10992.04,"end":10994.04,"text":"預算分佈是在灶州的部分"},{"start":10994.04,"end":10996.04,"text":"那我們採購的是"},{"start":10996.04,"end":10998.04,"text":"島上族人各個家族"},{"start":10998.04,"end":11000.04,"text":"的樹木不是從台灣"},{"start":11000.04,"end":11002.04,"text":"買的所以我們讓"},{"start":11002.04,"end":11004.04,"text":"整個利用"},{"start":11004.04,"end":11006.04,"text":"文化的利用"},{"start":11006.04,"end":11008.04,"text":"財產的利用回到部落"},{"start":11008.04,"end":11010.04,"text":"另外就是我們划船的選手"},{"start":11010.04,"end":11012.04,"text":"那也從六個部落去挑選"},{"start":11012.04,"end":11014.04,"text":"然後去支付他的"},{"start":11014.04,"end":11016.04,"text":"划船的費用所以在"},{"start":11016.04,"end":11018.04,"text":"整體預算上我們覺得"},{"start":11018.04,"end":11020.04,"text":"還算是合理"},{"start":11020.04,"end":11022.04,"text":"而且是達到他的效果"},{"start":11022.04,"end":11024.04,"text":"我是覺得這次應該要檢討的就是"},{"start":11024.04,"end":11026.04,"text":"你們可能沒有去真正的去跟"},{"start":11026.04,"end":11028.04,"text":"我們海洋委員會"},{"start":11028.04,"end":11030.04,"text":"交通部航管局做一些"},{"start":11030.04,"end":11032.04,"text":"我們航行安全的管理"},{"start":11032.04,"end":11034.04,"text":"跟跨部會的一個應變的"},{"start":11034.04,"end":11036.04,"text":"機制指引啦那我想說以後"},{"start":11036.04,"end":11038.04,"text":"如果你們要再做這些的話是不是應該再"},{"start":11038.04,"end":11040.04,"text":"更嚴謹一點不要到最後明明是"},{"start":11040.04,"end":11042.04,"text":"一個很好的文化的交流"},{"start":11042.04,"end":11044.04,"text":"然後到最後是以這樣的一個所謂的"},{"start":11044.04,"end":11046.04,"text":"不是那麼好看的一個據點"},{"start":11046.04,"end":11048.04,"text":"讓國務委會覺得說你們這樣的"},{"start":11048.04,"end":11050.04,"text":"一個努力是不是就有點"},{"start":11050.04,"end":11052.04,"text":"白費這樣"},{"start":11052.04,"end":11054.04,"text":"就像委員提到的就是說"},{"start":11054.04,"end":11056.04,"text":"氣候的掌握可能在"},{"start":11056.04,"end":11058.04,"text":"未來執行這一類的計畫"},{"start":11058.04,"end":11060.04,"text":"的時候要更強調"},{"start":11060.04,"end":11062.04,"text":"那也凸顯了"},{"start":11062.04,"end":11064.04,"text":"其實世界的"},{"start":11064.04,"end":11066.04,"text":"氣候的暖化跟"},{"start":11066.04,"end":11068.04,"text":"驟變非常的強烈"},{"start":11068.04,"end":11070.04,"text":"那以前我們的航海我們的祖先"},{"start":11070.04,"end":11072.04,"text":"祖父級可能他的"},{"start":11072.04,"end":11074.04,"text":"周期性的航海"},{"start":11074.04,"end":11076.04,"text":"不會遇到大強烈的"},{"start":11076.04,"end":11078.04,"text":"西南風浪但其實這幾年"},{"start":11078.04,"end":11080.04,"text":"的全球性的氣候確實有"},{"start":11080.04,"end":11082.04,"text":"影響在這一塊我們會再做"},{"start":11082.04,"end":11084.04,"text":"今天報告我覺得應該要有"},{"start":11084.04,"end":11086.04,"text":"第一個就是說我們實際想要看到"},{"start":11086.04,"end":11088.04,"text":"你們的文化的交流的一個亮點在哪裡"},{"start":11088.04,"end":11090.04,"text":"然後現在的一個文化的一個"},{"start":11090.04,"end":11092.04,"text":"相同跟差異還有"},{"start":11092.04,"end":11094.04,"text":"理論的一個相同跟差異"},{"start":11094.04,"end":11096.04,"text":"我覺得應該也要呈現出來"},{"start":11096.04,"end":11098.04,"text":"才要知道說你們這次一個委員會真正的"},{"start":11098.04,"end":11100.04,"text":"目的是什麼"},{"start":11100.04,"end":11102.04,"text":"可以讓全世界的我們原住民都看到"},{"start":11102.04,"end":11104.04,"text":"好不好 謝謝"},{"start":11104.04,"end":11106.04,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":11112.04,"end":11114.04,"text":"下一位請林憲奇委員發言質詢"},{"start":11122.04,"end":11124.04,"text":"好謝謝我們的主席"},{"start":11124.04,"end":11126.04,"text":"張偉"},{"start":11126.04,"end":11128.04,"text":"好我先請我們原文會"},{"start":11128.04,"end":11130.04,"text":"我想"},{"start":11130.04,"end":11132.04,"text":"原文化"},{"start":11132.04,"end":11134.04,"text":"基金會的這個董事長"},{"start":11134.04,"end":11136.04,"text":"馬拉魯斯"},{"start":11140.04,"end":11142.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11142.04,"end":11144.04,"text":"你好"},{"start":11144.04,"end":11146.04,"text":"董事長你好那個今天的"},{"start":11146.04,"end":11148.04,"text":"這個裡面有關於這個航海文化"},{"start":11148.04,"end":11150.04,"text":"最主要是就原文會這邊來"},{"start":11150.04,"end":11152.04,"text":"執行嘛"},{"start":11152.04,"end":11154.04,"text":"這一次整個經費的主體"},{"start":11154.04,"end":11156.04,"text":"是我們蘭嶼的這個拼版舟"},{"start":11156.04,"end":11158.04,"text":"航行到巴丹島"},{"start":11158.04,"end":11160.04,"text":"那包括造舟包括人才"},{"start":11160.04,"end":11162.04,"text":"那包括這個水手"},{"start":11162.04,"end":11164.04,"text":"包括整個航行喔"},{"start":11164.04,"end":11166.04,"text":"那麼我想跟您請教"},{"start":11166.04,"end":11168.04,"text":"這邊內容大概也提到了"},{"start":11168.04,"end":11170.04,"text":"你們幾個成果喔"},{"start":11170.04,"end":11172.04,"text":"我想這個成果的部分"},{"start":11172.04,"end":11174.04,"text":"您剛才也有提到其實在蘭嶼的部分"},{"start":11174.04,"end":11176.04,"text":"我們很多長者還有包括所有的"},{"start":11176.04,"end":11178.04,"text":"水手大家對這件事情"},{"start":11178.04,"end":11180.04,"text":"都非常的投入喔"},{"start":11180.04,"end":11182.04,"text":"但是因為一些外部的因素"},{"start":11182.04,"end":11184.04,"text":"可能整體的結果不是"},{"start":11184.04,"end":11186.04,"text":"這麼的"},{"start":11186.04,"end":11188.04,"text":"如同預期啦"},{"start":11188.04,"end":11190.04,"text":"但是本席就覺得"},{"start":11190.04,"end":11192.04,"text":"想要請教你一下"},{"start":11192.04,"end":11194.04,"text":"那你覺得這一次的這個計畫算成功嗎"},{"start":11194.04,"end":11196.04,"text":"我覺得應該"},{"start":11196.04,"end":11198.04,"text":"應該從原住民的角度"},{"start":11198.04,"end":11200.04,"text":"應該是要把它"},{"start":11200.04,"end":11202.04,"text":"列為成功的一個交流"},{"start":11202.04,"end":11204.04,"text":"因為我們"},{"start":11204.04,"end":11206.04,"text":"那您可以講一下成功的要素嗎"},{"start":11206.04,"end":11208.04,"text":"就是我們跟巴丹島"},{"start":11208.04,"end":11210.04,"text":"有了這個影像的這個紀錄"},{"start":11210.04,"end":11212.04,"text":"好像你們覺得是第一次"},{"start":11212.04,"end":11214.04,"text":"那本席這樣問好了喔"},{"start":11214.04,"end":11216.04,"text":"那請問你覺得這個航行喔"},{"start":11216.04,"end":11218.04,"text":"您對於整個航行裡面"},{"start":11218.04,"end":11220.04,"text":"我們真正實踐原住民族航行的這個"},{"start":11220.04,"end":11222.04,"text":"航段"},{"start":11222.04,"end":11224.04,"text":"大概佔了航段的百分之幾"},{"start":11224.04,"end":11226.04,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":11226.04,"end":11228.04,"text":"航行的成功率大概有多長"},{"start":11228.04,"end":11230.04,"text":"第一個就是說"},{"start":11230.04,"end":11232.04,"text":"如果焦點回到這邊的話"},{"start":11232.04,"end":11234.04,"text":"就是在造出一個"},{"start":11234.04,"end":11236.04,"text":"已經失傳"},{"start":11236.04,"end":11238.04,"text":"三百年的二十人中"},{"start":11238.04,"end":11240.04,"text":"這個工法"},{"start":11240.04,"end":11242.04,"text":"它的意義非常的大"},{"start":11242.04,"end":11244.04,"text":"所以我們就是航行把它拖行到了"},{"start":11244.04,"end":11246.04,"text":"這個巴丹"},{"start":11246.04,"end":11248.04,"text":"然後現在放在巴丹島上"},{"start":11248.04,"end":11250.04,"text":"那請問放在巴丹島上的哪裡"},{"start":11250.04,"end":11252.04,"text":"我們會放在巴丹的博物館"},{"start":11252.04,"end":11254.04,"text":"我們會放在巴丹島上的博物館"},{"start":11254.04,"end":11256.04,"text":"另外他也會在"},{"start":11256.04,"end":11258.04,"text":"馬哈道市做市民的"},{"start":11258.04,"end":11260.04,"text":"直接的交流"},{"start":11260.04,"end":11262.04,"text":"甚至於市華"},{"start":11262.04,"end":11264.04,"text":"那如果是這樣"},{"start":11264.04,"end":11266.04,"text":"本席也建議可能"},{"start":11266.04,"end":11268.04,"text":"每一年或者是三五年"},{"start":11268.04,"end":11270.04,"text":"要去檢視一下我們這艘船"},{"start":11270.04,"end":11272.04,"text":"在巴丹島的一個狀況"},{"start":11272.04,"end":11274.04,"text":"依照本席"},{"start":11274.04,"end":11276.04,"text":"你知道本席經常在水上跑"},{"start":11276.04,"end":11278.04,"text":"所以本席剛才問你說"},{"start":11278.04,"end":11280.04,"text":"那如果以航行上來講"},{"start":11280.04,"end":11282.04,"text":"我們真的海洋文化"},{"start":11282.04,"end":11284.04,"text":"這一段航行真的如你們預期"},{"start":11284.04,"end":11286.04,"text":"我們真正在海上航行成功"},{"start":11286.04,"end":11288.04,"text":"大概有百分之幾整個路段"},{"start":11288.04,"end":11290.04,"text":"整個航段"},{"start":11290.04,"end":11292.04,"text":"這個計畫它"},{"start":11292.04,"end":11294.04,"text":"這個計畫它倒不是探險"},{"start":11294.04,"end":11296.04,"text":"因為你們是在航行"},{"start":11296.04,"end":11298.04,"text":"我們在講航行"},{"start":11298.04,"end":11300.04,"text":"航行要能夠成功"},{"start":11300.04,"end":11302.04,"text":"所以真正所有的水手航行"},{"start":11302.04,"end":11304.04,"text":"安全成功的航行"},{"start":11304.04,"end":11306.04,"text":"大概整個航段百分之幾"},{"start":11306.04,"end":11308.04,"text":"成功的航行"},{"start":11308.04,"end":11310.04,"text":"我們在整個航行來說"},{"start":11310.04,"end":11312.04,"text":"大概應該在"},{"start":11312.04,"end":11314.04,"text":"四分之一的過程"},{"start":11314.04,"end":11316.04,"text":"航行成功是四分之一"},{"start":11316.04,"end":11318.04,"text":"四分之三是拖行的"},{"start":11318.04,"end":11320.04,"text":"所以你們的第二點要說"},{"start":11320.04,"end":11322.04,"text":"我們有成功的把船"},{"start":11322.04,"end":11324.04,"text":"拖行到了八丹道"},{"start":11324.04,"end":11326.04,"text":"那你如果要知道直接的內容"},{"start":11326.04,"end":11328.04,"text":"本席這邊有掌握"},{"start":11328.04,"end":11330.04,"text":"你們在海上的整體狀況"},{"start":11330.04,"end":11332.04,"text":"那當然有很多"},{"start":11332.04,"end":11334.04,"text":"介乎的船讓這一次"},{"start":11334.04,"end":11336.04,"text":"我們在整個航行"},{"start":11336.04,"end":11338.04,"text":"所有的水手是安全的"},{"start":11338.04,"end":11340.04,"text":"我們真的是不幸中的大幸"},{"start":11340.04,"end":11342.04,"text":"就像你講的如果事前你們知道"},{"start":11342.04,"end":11344.04,"text":"整個海上還有氣候變遷"},{"start":11344.04,"end":11346.04,"text":"這麼劇烈的情況下"},{"start":11346.04,"end":11348.04,"text":"你們還這樣子航行其實是制"},{"start":11348.04,"end":11350.04,"text":"太多的鄉親在危險當中"},{"start":11350.04,"end":11352.04,"text":"那本席簡單講"},{"start":11352.04,"end":11354.04,"text":"你剛才講四分之一"},{"start":11354.04,"end":11356.04,"text":"本席就算給你聽了"},{"start":11356.04,"end":11358.04,"text":"應該你們一出這個港"},{"start":11358.04,"end":11360.04,"text":"直接航行到小蘭嶼外海"},{"start":11360.04,"end":11362.04,"text":"大概就十海里吧"},{"start":11362.04,"end":11364.04,"text":"十海里可能是航行成功的"},{"start":11364.04,"end":11366.04,"text":"之後直接拖行到八丹島外"},{"start":11366.04,"end":11368.04,"text":"一海里"},{"start":11368.04,"end":11370.04,"text":"整個蘭嶼從八丹到"},{"start":11370.04,"end":11372.04,"text":"從蘭嶼到八丹島"},{"start":11372.04,"end":11374.04,"text":"總共一百海里"},{"start":11374.04,"end":11376.04,"text":"那你就可以去算算"},{"start":11376.04,"end":11378.04,"text":"我們真正航行成功大概有"},{"start":11378.04,"end":11380.04,"text":"好那所以大部分"},{"start":11380.04,"end":11382.04,"text":"包括到八丹"},{"start":11382.04,"end":11384.04,"text":"我們都是被拖行"},{"start":11384.04,"end":11386.04,"text":"那這不是水手的錯誤"},{"start":11386.04,"end":11388.04,"text":"本席對於這個計畫是非常的贊成"},{"start":11388.04,"end":11390.04,"text":"但是你們這"},{"start":11390.04,"end":11392.04,"text":"整個計畫的不完備跟不專業"},{"start":11392.04,"end":11394.04,"text":"讓太多人"},{"start":11394.04,"end":11396.04,"text":"在不安全的情境下"},{"start":11396.04,"end":11398.04,"text":"所以本席覺得這個你們要"},{"start":11398.04,"end":11400.04,"text":"深刻的檢討本席已經把"},{"start":11400.04,"end":11402.04,"text":"你們有航行成功的"},{"start":11402.04,"end":11404.04,"text":"航段算給你聽了"},{"start":11404.04,"end":11406.04,"text":"所以你應該好好的仔細算一下"},{"start":11406.04,"end":11408.04,"text":"我們真正航行成功有多少"},{"start":11408.04,"end":11410.04,"text":"好所以這個真的是"},{"start":11410.04,"end":11412.04,"text":"非常值得要檢討的"},{"start":11412.04,"end":11414.04,"text":"不只是預算可能"},{"start":11414.04,"end":11416.04,"text":"沒有用的很有效度"},{"start":11416.04,"end":11418.04,"text":"最重要是你讓太多的水手"},{"start":11418.04,"end":11420.04,"text":"在不安全的情況下"},{"start":11420.04,"end":11422.04,"text":"那這點其實不僅要檢討"},{"start":11422.04,"end":11424.04,"text":"你們未來也要預防這樣子的情形"},{"start":11424.04,"end":11426.04,"text":"發生好所以"},{"start":11426.04,"end":11428.04,"text":"那這個部分我想說請副主委"},{"start":11428.04,"end":11430.04,"text":"還有我們教人處"},{"start":11430.04,"end":11432.04,"text":"我們共同來協助我們原住民"},{"start":11432.04,"end":11434.04,"text":"的這個航海文化"},{"start":11434.04,"end":11436.04,"text":"我們重點是要航行成功"},{"start":11436.04,"end":11438.04,"text":"那不管造船或造舟"},{"start":11438.04,"end":11440.04,"text":"的奉正"},{"start":11440.04,"end":11442.04,"text":"要讓他真正實際上"},{"start":11442.04,"end":11444.04,"text":"能夠成就"},{"start":11444.04,"end":11446.04,"text":"所以本席在這邊要請教一下這個"},{"start":11446.04,"end":11448.04,"text":"副主委跟我們教人還有"},{"start":11448.04,"end":11450.04,"text":"董事長"},{"start":11450.04,"end":11452.04,"text":"那以目前的狀況"},{"start":11452.04,"end":11454.04,"text":"我們是不是在各部會跟各項計畫"},{"start":11454.04,"end":11456.04,"text":"裡面的這個預算"},{"start":11456.04,"end":11458.04,"text":"能夠來支撐我們東海岸"},{"start":11458.04,"end":11460.04,"text":"或者是所謂原住民"},{"start":11460.04,"end":11462.04,"text":"裡面的這個海洋民族"},{"start":11462.04,"end":11464.04,"text":"還有我們阿美族還有達悟族"},{"start":11464.04,"end":11466.04,"text":"等等最直接的跟太平洋"},{"start":11466.04,"end":11468.04,"text":"這邊接觸的這個族群跟部落"},{"start":11468.04,"end":11470.04,"text":"的這個造船"},{"start":11470.04,"end":11472.04,"text":"航行跟產業"},{"start":11472.04,"end":11474.04,"text":"那這個部分是不是可以得到原民會的"},{"start":11474.04,"end":11476.04,"text":"一個承諾跟支持"},{"start":11476.04,"end":11478.04,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":11478.04,"end":11480.04,"text":"像在東海岸有一些NGO團體"},{"start":11480.04,"end":11482.04,"text":"甚至我們知道現在有"},{"start":11482.04,"end":11484.04,"text":"所以你們有支持嗎"},{"start":11484.04,"end":11486.04,"text":"那第二個部分"},{"start":11486.04,"end":11488.04,"text":"剛才你們其實談到了兩個案例"},{"start":11488.04,"end":11490.04,"text":"包括那個先前"},{"start":11490.04,"end":11492.04,"text":"從柏羅來的船還有未來"},{"start":11494.04,"end":11496.04,"text":"目前停在紐西蘭的那一艘"},{"start":11496.04,"end":11498.04,"text":"夏威夷船"},{"start":11498.04,"end":11500.04,"text":"未來他們可能要來台灣"},{"start":11500.04,"end":11502.04,"text":"他們來了台灣除了我們看各部會"},{"start":11502.04,"end":11504.04,"text":"這些來台灣成功航行到台灣"},{"start":11504.04,"end":11506.04,"text":"成功航行喔"},{"start":11506.04,"end":11508.04,"text":"到台灣的船作為各部會的績效以外"},{"start":11508.04,"end":11510.04,"text":"那這整體的計畫"},{"start":11510.04,"end":11512.04,"text":"究竟對台灣的"},{"start":11512.04,"end":11514.04,"text":"航海文化的效益"},{"start":11514.04,"end":11516.04,"text":"跟實際的成就"},{"start":11516.04,"end":11518.04,"text":"到底在哪裡我希望原民會這個部分"},{"start":11518.04,"end":11520.04,"text":"能夠做一些主導"},{"start":11520.04,"end":11522.04,"text":"那如果你們還有相關的這個問題"},{"start":11522.04,"end":11524.04,"text":"本席在會後可以提供給你們"},{"start":11524.04,"end":11526.04,"text":"這兩艘船來這邊各部會各行其道"},{"start":11526.04,"end":11528.04,"text":"但最重要的是"},{"start":11528.04,"end":11530.04,"text":"拋了很多宣傳部會成果的片子"},{"start":11532.04,"end":11534.04,"text":"但是這個真的是把台灣的航海文化"},{"start":11534.04,"end":11536.04,"text":"做起來了嗎"},{"start":11536.04,"end":11538.04,"text":"好所以這裡是本席要強調"},{"start":11538.04,"end":11540.04,"text":"整個南島文化的這個外交"},{"start":11540.04,"end":11542.04,"text":"很重要的是原住民族的"},{"start":11542.04,"end":11544.04,"text":"航行的水手也好"},{"start":11544.04,"end":11546.04,"text":"青年人也好"},{"start":11546.04,"end":11548.04,"text":"所以我們要學習怎麼造船造舟"},{"start":11548.04,"end":11550.04,"text":"第二個部分是"},{"start":11550.04,"end":11552.04,"text":"我相信從祖先一直傳承下來"},{"start":11552.04,"end":11554.04,"text":"目前失去但是你們還沒有找回來的是"},{"start":11554.04,"end":11556.04,"text":"辨識整個天文水象的知識"},{"start":11558.04,"end":11560.04,"text":"那我相信傳統的知識"},{"start":11560.04,"end":11562.04,"text":"是可用的"},{"start":11562.04,"end":11564.04,"text":"氣候變遷也是每段時期都在變化"},{"start":11564.04,"end":11566.04,"text":"但是你們沒有掌握這些東西"},{"start":11566.04,"end":11568.04,"text":"就讓大家在險境當中"},{"start":11568.04,"end":11570.04,"text":"這點不僅要檢討"},{"start":11570.04,"end":11572.04,"text":"也希望你們未來應該要擴大"},{"start":11572.04,"end":11574.04,"text":"對於原住民族航海文化"},{"start":11574.04,"end":11576.04,"text":"的一個知識性"},{"start":11576.04,"end":11578.04,"text":"那要讓更多人來參與"},{"start":11578.04,"end":11580.04,"text":"那你們這樣一個專案似乎在一開始"},{"start":11580.04,"end":11582.04,"text":"就太狹隘了"},{"start":11582.04,"end":11584.04,"text":"好所以本席這邊要來談一下"},{"start":11584.04,"end":11586.04,"text":"你們經常跟海委會"},{"start":11586.04,"end":11588.04,"text":"海委會經理也有代表來"},{"start":11588.04,"end":11590.04,"text":"但是可能不是主要的這個"},{"start":11590.04,"end":11592.04,"text":"海委會的代表"},{"start":11592.04,"end":11594.04,"text":"也請您上來"},{"start":11594.04,"end":11596.04,"text":"我想讓海委會跟原民會"},{"start":11596.04,"end":11598.04,"text":"你們在所有的這樣一個計畫的合作當中"},{"start":11598.04,"end":11600.04,"text":"應該更緊密"},{"start":11600.04,"end":11602.04,"text":"那"},{"start":11602.04,"end":11604.04,"text":"不管是先前的帛琉"},{"start":11604.04,"end":11606.04,"text":"跟之後的這個"},{"start":11606.04,"end":11608.04,"text":"所謂"},{"start":11608.04,"end":11610.04,"text":"夏威夷的船要來"},{"start":11610.04,"end":11612.04,"text":"我們都希望這一點能夠"},{"start":11612.04,"end":11614.04,"text":"借重他們航行成功的"},{"start":11614.04,"end":11616.04,"text":"航海知識真的來教育"},{"start":11616.04,"end":11618.04,"text":"我們台灣的失去的"},{"start":11618.04,"end":11620.04,"text":"航海文化"},{"start":11620.04,"end":11622.04,"text":"給有興趣的人"},{"start":11622.04,"end":11624.04,"text":"那包括原住民常常海委會"},{"start":11624.04,"end":11626.04,"text":"你們在這些計畫當中"},{"start":11626.04,"end":11628.04,"text":"原住民都被你們排除在外"},{"start":11628.04,"end":11630.04,"text":"或不知道你們在透過"},{"start":11630.04,"end":11632.04,"text":"這些船來到這邊計畫的實踐的"},{"start":11632.04,"end":11634.04,"text":"一些相關的子計畫"},{"start":11634.04,"end":11636.04,"text":"本席希望你們在未來"},{"start":11636.04,"end":11638.04,"text":"這兩艘這一些"},{"start":11638.04,"end":11640.04,"text":"一直來台灣的船拿了政府的經費的"},{"start":11640.04,"end":11642.04,"text":"同時也應該真正"},{"start":11642.04,"end":11644.04,"text":"實踐台灣航海"},{"start":11644.04,"end":11646.04,"text":"文化人才的一個培育"},{"start":11646.04,"end":11648.04,"text":"這點希望兩個"},{"start":11648.04,"end":11650.04,"text":"派會是不是可以緊密的合作"},{"start":11650.04,"end":11652.04,"text":"尤其原民會你們"},{"start":11652.04,"end":11654.04,"text":"應該要拿到航海文化的"},{"start":11654.04,"end":11656.04,"text":"話語權跟主導權"},{"start":11656.04,"end":11658.04,"text":"好那所以"},{"start":11658.04,"end":11660.04,"text":"接下來本席有很實際的建議"},{"start":11660.04,"end":11662.04,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":11662.04,"end":11664.04,"text":"原民會包括"},{"start":11664.04,"end":11666.04,"text":"這個原文會你們是不是應該"},{"start":11666.04,"end":11668.04,"text":"要專任輔導東海岸的各鄉鎮"},{"start":11668.04,"end":11670.04,"text":"跟各部落的"},{"start":11670.04,"end":11672.04,"text":"造船文化而且要啟動"},{"start":11672.04,"end":11674.04,"text":"實際的航行計畫"},{"start":11674.04,"end":11676.04,"text":"我們就從比較小的開始"},{"start":11676.04,"end":11678.04,"text":"我們先把傳統船附贈"},{"start":11678.04,"end":11680.04,"text":"然後真的用一些比賽"},{"start":11680.04,"end":11682.04,"text":"或用真正一些航行的小計畫"},{"start":11682.04,"end":11684.04,"text":"讓它真正航行成功"},{"start":11684.04,"end":11686.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":11686.04,"end":11688.04,"text":"而不是一個很大的計畫"},{"start":11688.04,"end":11690.04,"text":"到最後你們成功的是"},{"start":11690.04,"end":11692.04,"text":"成功拖行而沒有"},{"start":11692.04,"end":11694.04,"text":"真的完成成功的航行"},{"start":11694.04,"end":11696.04,"text":"那這點有點"},{"start":11696.04,"end":11698.04,"text":"遺憾跟可惜所以是不是可以答應"},{"start":11698.04,"end":11700.04,"text":"本席剛才第一個建議就是說"},{"start":11700.04,"end":11702.04,"text":"我們真的要來附贈我們造船文化"},{"start":11702.04,"end":11704.04,"text":"然後啟動真正的"},{"start":11704.04,"end":11706.04,"text":"實際航行"},{"start":11706.04,"end":11708.04,"text":"本席上次在那個"},{"start":11708.04,"end":11710.04,"text":"院會我想這個院長這邊"},{"start":11710.04,"end":11712.04,"text":"很關心我們傳統"},{"start":11712.04,"end":11714.04,"text":"項目的一些競賽"},{"start":11714.04,"end":11716.04,"text":"本席有這樣一個建議"},{"start":11716.04,"end":11718.04,"text":"所以應該透過這種造船"},{"start":11718.04,"end":11720.04,"text":"讓真正造船文化包括東海岸很多"},{"start":11720.04,"end":11722.04,"text":"那來源應該也是可以有這樣子的一個"},{"start":11722.04,"end":11724.04,"text":"比賽只是說東海岸的"},{"start":11724.04,"end":11726.04,"text":"海象或許機會"},{"start":11726.04,"end":11728.04,"text":"也是比較大所以是不是可以讓"},{"start":11728.04,"end":11730.04,"text":"東海岸的部落或鄉鎮來造船"},{"start":11730.04,"end":11732.04,"text":"以前都曾經有過"},{"start":11732.04,"end":11734.04,"text":"我們透過有的知識造船"},{"start":11734.04,"end":11736.04,"text":"讓它附贈但最重要"},{"start":11736.04,"end":11738.04,"text":"是要實踐我們不能"},{"start":11738.04,"end":11740.04,"text":"一時之再拖行"},{"start":11740.04,"end":11742.04,"text":"不能把陸地上的那趟拿到海上"},{"start":11742.04,"end":11744.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":11744.04,"end":11746.04,"text":"那這個部分是不是可以請附作的承諾"},{"start":11746.04,"end":11748.04,"text":"因為它不是太難做"},{"start":11748.04,"end":11750.04,"text":"而且應該是面對政策"},{"start":11750.04,"end":11752.04,"text":"我們會來研議"},{"start":11752.04,"end":11754.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11754.04,"end":11756.04,"text":"接下來就是原住民的航海學校"},{"start":11756.04,"end":11758.04,"text":"那你們應該在東海岸或者是海洋"},{"start":11758.04,"end":11760.04,"text":"的這個我們島嶼建置一些"},{"start":11760.04,"end":11762.04,"text":"航海的基地"},{"start":11762.04,"end":11764.04,"text":"那這點應該公部門來強力的"},{"start":11764.04,"end":11766.04,"text":"這個支撐嘛"},{"start":11766.04,"end":11768.04,"text":"我們知道民間很多這樣子的一個能量"},{"start":11768.04,"end":11770.04,"text":"但是如果你們沒有支撐的話"},{"start":11770.04,"end":11772.04,"text":"他們其實也很難做"},{"start":11772.04,"end":11774.04,"text":"所以是不是可以答應本席"},{"start":11774.04,"end":11776.04,"text":"把這些真的有在投入的"},{"start":11776.04,"end":11778.04,"text":"這個海洋文化基地"},{"start":11778.04,"end":11780.04,"text":"讓透過公部門的一切支撐"},{"start":11780.04,"end":11782.04,"text":"讓專業的原住民的"},{"start":11782.04,"end":11784.04,"text":"南島的航海文化"},{"start":11784.04,"end":11786.04,"text":"能夠在這些基地實踐呢"},{"start":11788.04,"end":11790.04,"text":"我想委員提這個"},{"start":11790.04,"end":11792.04,"text":"我們會研議一個中長程計畫來進行"},{"start":11792.04,"end":11794.04,"text":"這樣的相關的事務"},{"start":11794.04,"end":11796.04,"text":"那接下來很重要是這些舟艇"},{"start":11796.04,"end":11798.04,"text":"船造完了之後"},{"start":11798.04,"end":11800.04,"text":"到最後都爛在外面"},{"start":11800.04,"end":11802.04,"text":"所以本席也要跟文化部"},{"start":11802.04,"end":11804.04,"text":"文化部今天也是有相關的"},{"start":11804.04,"end":11806.04,"text":"代表嘛"},{"start":11806.04,"end":11808.04,"text":"文化部首先要謝謝你們"},{"start":11808.04,"end":11810.04,"text":"對航海文化現在各部會"},{"start":11810.04,"end":11812.04,"text":"都有很多計畫在進行"},{"start":11812.04,"end":11814.04,"text":"但是這個進行沒有讓"},{"start":11814.04,"end":11816.04,"text":"這個文化活起來"},{"start":11816.04,"end":11818.04,"text":"那包括船的典藏"},{"start":11818.04,"end":11820.04,"text":"是不是你們也可以協助一下原民會"},{"start":11820.04,"end":11822.04,"text":"或協助目前已經有造成的舟艇"},{"start":11822.04,"end":11824.04,"text":"應該有一些典藏的"},{"start":11824.04,"end":11826.04,"text":"可能性跟典藏的平台"},{"start":11826.04,"end":11828.04,"text":"那大家造出來了"},{"start":11828.04,"end":11830.04,"text":"那後來放在外面爛掉"},{"start":11830.04,"end":11832.04,"text":"實在很可惜本席就看過了好幾艘"},{"start":11832.04,"end":11834.04,"text":"那唯一的好處就是本席可以直接看到"},{"start":11834.04,"end":11836.04,"text":"但是看到都是快要壞掉"},{"start":11836.04,"end":11838.04,"text":"跟爛掉"},{"start":11838.04,"end":11840.04,"text":"我想你們在典藏的專業上都知道"},{"start":11840.04,"end":11842.04,"text":"那一些溫度濕度等等"},{"start":11842.04,"end":11844.04,"text":"那是讓這些能夠好好維持的"},{"start":11846.04,"end":11848.04,"text":"未來的一個文化的"},{"start":11848.04,"end":11850.04,"text":"文化面的這個典藏應該是很重要的吧"},{"start":11850.04,"end":11852.04,"text":"所以是不是可以請文化部"},{"start":11852.04,"end":11854.04,"text":"除了在展示以外"},{"start":11854.04,"end":11856.04,"text":"可以在典藏的部分協助一下原民會"},{"start":11856.04,"end":11858.04,"text":"那原民會你們最重要的就是"},{"start":11858.04,"end":11860.04,"text":"我們要讓這個海洋文化"},{"start":11860.04,"end":11862.04,"text":"附贈不僅是海洋的知識"},{"start":11862.04,"end":11864.04,"text":"還有海洋的載具"},{"start":11864.04,"end":11866.04,"text":"最重要的是"},{"start":11866.04,"end":11868.04,"text":"它要活起來"},{"start":11868.04,"end":11870.04,"text":"因為全世界現在大家都還在航行"},{"start":11870.04,"end":11872.04,"text":"我相信我們一定是可以航行成功的"},{"start":11872.04,"end":11874.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":11874.04,"end":11876.04,"text":"好謝謝那加油囉"},{"start":11876.04,"end":11878.04,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":11884.04,"end":11886.04,"text":"好"},{"start":11886.04,"end":11888.04,"text":"下一位請王洪威委員發言資訊"},{"start":11896.04,"end":11898.04,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":11898.04,"end":11902.04,"text":"我請我們原委會"},{"start":11902.04,"end":11904.04,"text":"今天是副主委嘛"},{"start":11904.04,"end":11906.04,"text":"對不對"},{"start":11906.04,"end":11908.04,"text":"還有我們原民基金會的董事長"},{"start":11908.04,"end":11910.04,"text":"好副主委董事長"},{"start":11910.04,"end":11912.04,"text":"在你們今天的報告裡面"},{"start":11912.04,"end":11914.04,"text":"有特別提到在去年底"},{"start":11914.04,"end":11916.04,"text":"舉辦的世界原住民傳統運動會"},{"start":11916.04,"end":11918.04,"text":"但是呢在我們的報告裡面"},{"start":11918.04,"end":11920.04,"text":"卻看不到"},{"start":11920.04,"end":11922.04,"text":"有關於我們這個"},{"start":11922.04,"end":11924.04,"text":"試源運"},{"start":11924.04,"end":11926.04,"text":"那麼"},{"start":11926.04,"end":11928.04,"text":"在去年底"},{"start":11928.04,"end":11930.04,"text":"我們有提到"},{"start":11930.04,"end":11932.04,"text":"我們這個試源運"},{"start":11932.04,"end":11934.04,"text":"有提到"},{"start":11934.04,"end":11936.04,"text":"我們這個試源運"},{"start":11936.04,"end":11938.04,"text":"那麼"},{"start":11938.04,"end":11940.04,"text":"在去年底我們舉辦之後"},{"start":11940.04,"end":11942.04,"text":"那麼未來"},{"start":11942.04,"end":11944.04,"text":"我們還會不會有政策性推動的工作"},{"start":11944.04,"end":11946.04,"text":"因為在原民會"},{"start":11946.04,"end":11948.04,"text":"也說這不是原民會"},{"start":11948.04,"end":11950.04,"text":"經常性的業務預算"},{"start":11950.04,"end":11952.04,"text":"那就是一個執行單位"},{"start":11952.04,"end":11954.04,"text":"所以我想請問一下"},{"start":11954.04,"end":11956.04,"text":"我們在去年"},{"start":11956.04,"end":11958.04,"text":"這樣的一個"},{"start":11958.04,"end":11960.04,"text":"特別辦理的這個"},{"start":11960.04,"end":11962.04,"text":"試源運"},{"start":11962.04,"end":11964.04,"text":"接下來我們原委會"},{"start":11964.04,"end":11966.04,"text":"還有沒有任何政策性的規劃"},{"start":11966.04,"end":11968.04,"text":"比如說他會"},{"start":11968.04,"end":11970.04,"text":"屬於常態性"},{"start":11970.04,"end":11972.04,"text":"或者兩年做一次"},{"start":11972.04,"end":11974.04,"text":"或者四年做一次的"},{"start":11974.04,"end":11976.04,"text":"這樣的任何的規劃嗎"},{"start":11976.04,"end":11978.04,"text":"各位報告這個"},{"start":11978.04,"end":11980.04,"text":"去年所辦的世界"},{"start":11980.04,"end":11982.04,"text":"傳統原住民運動會這個"},{"start":11982.04,"end":11984.04,"text":"後來在跟各個的"},{"start":11984.04,"end":11986.04,"text":"國家在文化加入上面"},{"start":11986.04,"end":11988.04,"text":"有很大的這個幫忙"},{"start":11988.04,"end":11990.04,"text":"那我們事實上也規劃以後兩年一次"},{"start":11990.04,"end":11992.04,"text":"就是在116年"},{"start":11992.04,"end":11994.04,"text":"有相關的預算"},{"start":11994.04,"end":11996.04,"text":"來爭取來辦理這個運動會"},{"start":11996.04,"end":11998.04,"text":"所以未來他會"},{"start":11998.04,"end":12000.04,"text":"屬於一個兩年一次的"},{"start":12000.04,"end":12002.04,"text":"常態性的"},{"start":12002.04,"end":12004.04,"text":"一個活動"},{"start":12004.04,"end":12006.04,"text":"因為你們去年辦完了"},{"start":12006.04,"end":12008.04,"text":"我們當然要繼續去追蹤"},{"start":12008.04,"end":12010.04,"text":"你們認為花了八千多萬"},{"start":12010.04,"end":12012.04,"text":"那這樣的一個"},{"start":12012.04,"end":12014.04,"text":"活動到底他有沒有"},{"start":12014.04,"end":12016.04,"text":"繼續再敗下去的價值"},{"start":12016.04,"end":12018.04,"text":"因為我們之前都沒有看到"},{"start":12018.04,"end":12020.04,"text":"你們有任何的一個"},{"start":12020.04,"end":12022.04,"text":"實際的規劃"},{"start":12022.04,"end":12024.04,"text":"另外你要請教一下"},{"start":12024.04,"end":12026.04,"text":"我們的"},{"start":12028.04,"end":12030.04,"text":"這個"},{"start":12030.04,"end":12032.04,"text":"我們副主委"},{"start":12032.04,"end":12034.04,"text":"8月1號"},{"start":12034.04,"end":12036.04,"text":"原住民族日"},{"start":12036.04,"end":12038.04,"text":"那當然"},{"start":12038.04,"end":12040.04,"text":"就是我們有這個8月1號"},{"start":12040.04,"end":12042.04,"text":"原住民族日的活動"},{"start":12042.04,"end":12044.04,"text":"是很合理的"},{"start":12044.04,"end":12046.04,"text":"但是以今年度"},{"start":12046.04,"end":12048.04,"text":"今年度"},{"start":12048.04,"end":12050.04,"text":"在原住民族日活動的"},{"start":12050.04,"end":12052.04,"text":"勞務採購案裡面"},{"start":12052.04,"end":12054.04,"text":"絕標金額"},{"start":12054.04,"end":12056.04,"text":"高達1930萬元"},{"start":12056.04,"end":12058.04,"text":"高達1930萬元"},{"start":12058.04,"end":12060.04,"text":"如果"},{"start":12060.04,"end":12062.04,"text":"跟去年"},{"start":12062.04,"end":12064.04,"text":"這個是每一年都有8月1號"},{"start":12064.04,"end":12066.04,"text":"的原住民族日"},{"start":12066.04,"end":12068.04,"text":"去年呢"},{"start":12068.04,"end":12070.04,"text":"只有290萬元"},{"start":12070.04,"end":12072.04,"text":"增加的比例"},{"start":12072.04,"end":12074.04,"text":"是565.65%"},{"start":12074.04,"end":12076.04,"text":"之多"},{"start":12076.04,"end":12078.04,"text":"第一個我想請問"},{"start":12078.04,"end":12080.04,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":12080.04,"end":12082.04,"text":"今年度的同樣"},{"start":12082.04,"end":12084.04,"text":"平都是原住民族日"},{"start":12084.04,"end":12086.04,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":12086.04,"end":12088.04,"text":"今年採購金額"},{"start":12088.04,"end":12090.04,"text":"突然暴增成這樣子"},{"start":12090.04,"end":12092.04,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":12092.04,"end":12094.04,"text":"第一個當然是時間我們有拉長"},{"start":12094.04,"end":12096.04,"text":"我們三天"},{"start":12096.04,"end":12098.04,"text":"之前可能就是一天而已"},{"start":12098.04,"end":12100.04,"text":"為什麼今年變三天"},{"start":12100.04,"end":12102.04,"text":"為什麼以前"},{"start":12102.04,"end":12104.04,"text":"跟那個台下"},{"start":12104.04,"end":12106.04,"text":"就是夏威夷"},{"start":12106.04,"end":12108.04,"text":"合辦的"},{"start":12108.04,"end":12110.04,"text":"那他們"},{"start":12110.04,"end":12112.04,"text":"而且又是會裡面的30週年"},{"start":12112.04,"end":12114.04,"text":"所以我們這次比較擴大"},{"start":12114.04,"end":12116.04,"text":"今年特別擴大舉辦"},{"start":12116.04,"end":12118.04,"text":"因為我們是30週年原民會成立30週年"},{"start":12118.04,"end":12120.04,"text":"所以你看"},{"start":12120.04,"end":12122.04,"text":"我們的一個這個"},{"start":12122.04,"end":12124.04,"text":"所謂的採購案"},{"start":12124.04,"end":12126.04,"text":"從109年開始"},{"start":12126.04,"end":12128.04,"text":"109年開始"},{"start":12128.04,"end":12130.04,"text":"除了114年"},{"start":12130.04,"end":12132.04,"text":"這個是最少290萬"},{"start":12132.04,"end":12134.04,"text":"除了這個114年"},{"start":12134.04,"end":12136.04,"text":"是被一個"},{"start":12136.04,"end":12138.04,"text":"相差科技"},{"start":12138.04,"end":12140.04,"text":"事業股份有限公司"},{"start":12140.04,"end":12142.04,"text":"標走之外"},{"start":12142.04,"end":12144.04,"text":"其他全面性的"},{"start":12144.04,"end":12146.04,"text":"包含今年恢復"},{"start":12146.04,"end":12148.04,"text":"都是山海關國際"},{"start":12148.04,"end":12150.04,"text":"整合行銷公司"},{"start":12150.04,"end":12152.04,"text":"我有講過其實我對於標案"},{"start":12152.04,"end":12154.04,"text":"我最在乎的"},{"start":12154.04,"end":12156.04,"text":"就是是不是過度集中"},{"start":12156.04,"end":12158.04,"text":"是不是連續"},{"start":12158.04,"end":12160.04,"text":"我們政府的預算"},{"start":12160.04,"end":12162.04,"text":"可以好多年"},{"start":12162.04,"end":12164.04,"text":"都是只有一個公司"},{"start":12164.04,"end":12166.04,"text":"或一個單位得標"},{"start":12166.04,"end":12168.04,"text":"我覺得這都是非常"},{"start":12168.04,"end":12170.04,"text":"令人覺得不可思議的"},{"start":12170.04,"end":12172.04,"text":"而且呢"},{"start":12172.04,"end":12174.04,"text":"為什麼114年度"},{"start":12174.04,"end":12176.04,"text":"就不是這個山海關國際"},{"start":12176.04,"end":12178.04,"text":"行銷公司"},{"start":12178.04,"end":12180.04,"text":"因為後來我們發現"},{"start":12180.04,"end":12182.04,"text":"陳寅委員的助理"},{"start":12182.04,"end":12184.04,"text":"曾經在"},{"start":12184.04,"end":12186.04,"text":"114年之前"},{"start":12186.04,"end":12188.04,"text":"針對這個山海關"},{"start":12188.04,"end":12190.04,"text":"國際公司"},{"start":12190.04,"end":12192.04,"text":"在他的社群"},{"start":12192.04,"end":12194.04,"text":"做了很多的批評"},{"start":12194.04,"end":12196.04,"text":"他有講說"},{"start":12196.04,"end":12198.04,"text":"聽說山海關國際行銷"},{"start":12198.04,"end":12200.04,"text":"有限公司是許多"},{"start":12200.04,"end":12202.04,"text":"原民主管機關的"},{"start":12202.04,"end":12204.04,"text":"愛用廠商"},{"start":12204.04,"end":12206.04,"text":"然後專門"},{"start":12206.04,"end":12208.04,"text":"欺負原住民"},{"start":12208.04,"end":12210.04,"text":"或者他也有質疑說"},{"start":12210.04,"end":12212.04,"text":"山海關的無中山後台"},{"start":12212.04,"end":12214.04,"text":"到底有多硬"},{"start":12214.04,"end":12216.04,"text":"他說好多好聽的故事都到我這裡了"},{"start":12216.04,"end":12218.04,"text":"感覺超銷商沒有在怕"},{"start":12218.04,"end":12220.04,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":12220.04,"end":12222.04,"text":"是不是因為這樣"},{"start":12222.04,"end":12224.04,"text":"所以呢這整個你可以看到"},{"start":12224.04,"end":12226.04,"text":"每一年都是這個"},{"start":12226.04,"end":12228.04,"text":"山海關國際行銷公司"},{"start":12228.04,"end":12230.04,"text":"在標到"},{"start":12230.04,"end":12232.04,"text":"唯獨在114年"},{"start":12232.04,"end":12234.04,"text":"你們不敢標給他了"},{"start":12234.04,"end":12236.04,"text":"但是呢金額都變得很低"},{"start":12236.04,"end":12238.04,"text":"你可以看到其他"},{"start":12238.04,"end":12240.04,"text":"在114年之前"},{"start":12240.04,"end":12242.04,"text":"都有契約變更"},{"start":12242.04,"end":12244.04,"text":"每一年的金額"},{"start":12244.04,"end":12246.04,"text":"都遠遠大於"},{"start":12246.04,"end":12248.04,"text":"去年的290萬"},{"start":12248.04,"end":12250.04,"text":"然後今年決定擴大"},{"start":12250.04,"end":12252.04,"text":"舉辦"},{"start":12252.04,"end":12254.04,"text":"讓我合理懷疑是不是因為"},{"start":12254.04,"end":12256.04,"text":"114年他沒有標到"},{"start":12256.04,"end":12258.04,"text":"所以今年呢再加金額"},{"start":12258.04,"end":12260.04,"text":"來辦"},{"start":12260.04,"end":12262.04,"text":"然後又是再加山海關國際行銷公司"},{"start":12262.04,"end":12264.04,"text":"所以"},{"start":12264.04,"end":12266.04,"text":"我要講就是說"},{"start":12266.04,"end":12268.04,"text":"我們這次在審預算的時候"},{"start":12268.04,"end":12270.04,"text":"不管沒宣費"},{"start":12270.04,"end":12272.04,"text":"或者像這個什麼原住民"},{"start":12272.04,"end":12274.04,"text":"族裕"},{"start":12274.04,"end":12276.04,"text":"我不懂耶其他公司不能辦嗎"},{"start":12278.04,"end":12280.04,"text":"他們都沒有來標嗎"},{"start":12280.04,"end":12282.04,"text":"你們都跟我講說"},{"start":12282.04,"end":12284.04,"text":"按照這個採購"},{"start":12284.04,"end":12286.04,"text":"我們就按照採購程序"},{"start":12286.04,"end":12288.04,"text":"因為很多公司都知道"},{"start":12288.04,"end":12290.04,"text":"久了以後你們都有潛規則"},{"start":12290.04,"end":12292.04,"text":"他在來的時候"},{"start":12292.04,"end":12294.04,"text":"都只是來做陪榜"},{"start":12294.04,"end":12296.04,"text":"陪公子念書而已"},{"start":12296.04,"end":12298.04,"text":"所以造成"},{"start":12298.04,"end":12300.04,"text":"一個原住民族裕"},{"start":12300.04,"end":12302.04,"text":"過度集中在"},{"start":12302.04,"end":12304.04,"text":"某一家公司裡面"},{"start":12304.04,"end":12306.04,"text":"而且今年"},{"start":12306.04,"end":12308.04,"text":"暴增金額"},{"start":12308.04,"end":12310.04,"text":"今天金額可能是"},{"start":12310.04,"end":12312.04,"text":"30年到辦理的金額"},{"start":12312.04,"end":12314.04,"text":"就這樣暴增了"},{"start":12314.04,"end":12316.04,"text":"所以我們現在"},{"start":12316.04,"end":12318.04,"text":"有關於這些"},{"start":12318.04,"end":12320.04,"text":"標案我還是"},{"start":12320.04,"end":12322.04,"text":"會繼續的去盯住"},{"start":12322.04,"end":12324.04,"text":"我覺得如果說"},{"start":12324.04,"end":12326.04,"text":"今天只是因為"},{"start":12326.04,"end":12328.04,"text":"當時陳寅委員的助理"},{"start":12328.04,"end":12330.04,"text":"對這家公司顯然"},{"start":12330.04,"end":12332.04,"text":"他也應該聽到一些事情"},{"start":12332.04,"end":12334.04,"text":"他質疑了所以你們那時候避風頭"},{"start":12334.04,"end":12336.04,"text":"不敢給他今年"},{"start":12336.04,"end":12338.04,"text":"再給他而且金額"},{"start":12338.04,"end":12340.04,"text":"加碼這麼多"},{"start":12340.04,"end":12342.04,"text":"所以這些標案"},{"start":12342.04,"end":12344.04,"text":"都要以招攻擊我把它列出來"},{"start":12344.04,"end":12346.04,"text":"我相信很多的委員"},{"start":12346.04,"end":12348.04,"text":"會在座觀一看"},{"start":12348.04,"end":12350.04,"text":"大家都是行家"},{"start":12350.04,"end":12352.04,"text":"這種標案沒有貓膩"},{"start":12352.04,"end":12354.04,"text":"什麼才會有貓膩"},{"start":12354.04,"end":12356.04,"text":"所以我想請問一下"},{"start":12356.04,"end":12358.04,"text":"所以請我們的"},{"start":12358.04,"end":12360.04,"text":"原委會能夠把"},{"start":12360.04,"end":12362.04,"text":"這個相關"},{"start":12362.04,"end":12364.04,"text":"今年到底為什麼"},{"start":12364.04,"end":12366.04,"text":"你們要這樣大幅增加到"},{"start":12366.04,"end":12368.04,"text":"將近兩千萬"},{"start":12368.04,"end":12370.04,"text":"然後又回覆給原來的"},{"start":12370.04,"end":12372.04,"text":"公司去做成標"},{"start":12372.04,"end":12374.04,"text":"希望你能夠提供比較詳細的"},{"start":12374.04,"end":12376.04,"text":"書面報告給我們"},{"start":12376.04,"end":12378.04,"text":"否則的話"},{"start":12378.04,"end":12380.04,"text":"我們本來像我剛才一開始問"},{"start":12380.04,"end":12382.04,"text":"你們運動會"},{"start":12382.04,"end":12384.04,"text":"你們覺得有成效"},{"start":12384.04,"end":12386.04,"text":"有文化交流"},{"start":12386.04,"end":12388.04,"text":"原住民的文化交流"},{"start":12388.04,"end":12390.04,"text":"我們其實也都會支持"},{"start":12390.04,"end":12392.04,"text":"但是不要去集中"},{"start":12392.04,"end":12394.04,"text":"特別廠商好不好"},{"start":12394.04,"end":12396.04,"text":"委員因為那個之前前幾年"},{"start":12396.04,"end":12398.04,"text":"我就講說他可能是單一的"},{"start":12398.04,"end":12400.04,"text":"可能是行政會議可能是論壇"},{"start":12400.04,"end":12402.04,"text":"所以他的費用是比較低"},{"start":12402.04,"end":12404.04,"text":"但自己說三海關這個事實上"},{"start":12404.04,"end":12406.04,"text":"我們台上的採購法有時候來標"},{"start":12406.04,"end":12408.04,"text":"就兩家一家"},{"start":12408.04,"end":12410.04,"text":"那個都可受公評"},{"start":12410.04,"end":12412.04,"text":"可以看那個標案的他們實際這個"},{"start":12412.04,"end":12414.04,"text":"每一次的你們的集中"},{"start":12414.04,"end":12416.04,"text":"你們每一次的集中"},{"start":12416.04,"end":12418.04,"text":"通通都說可是我已經跟你講了"},{"start":12418.04,"end":12420.04,"text":"很多業者都已經知道了"},{"start":12420.04,"end":12422.04,"text":"人家看這樣子"},{"start":12422.04,"end":12424.04,"text":"還知道還要來標嗎"},{"start":12424.04,"end":12426.04,"text":"每一次都三海關"},{"start":12426.04,"end":12428.04,"text":"對不對每一次都三海關"},{"start":12428.04,"end":12430.04,"text":"而且還契約每一次都契約變更"},{"start":12430.04,"end":12432.04,"text":"換了一家公司就沒有契約變更了"},{"start":12432.04,"end":12434.04,"text":"經費特別少也不是做契約變更"},{"start":12434.04,"end":12436.04,"text":"我不曉得你今年還會不會做契約變更"},{"start":12436.04,"end":12438.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":12438.04,"end":12440.04,"text":"希望你們這些標案"},{"start":12440.04,"end":12442.04,"text":"希望你們這些標案"},{"start":12442.04,"end":12444.04,"text":"要以招公信"},{"start":12444.04,"end":12446.04,"text":"不要每一次都特定的"},{"start":12446.04,"end":12448.04,"text":"就是集中在某一家公司上"},{"start":12448.04,"end":12450.04,"text":"好以上"},{"start":12450.04,"end":12452.04,"text":"這個我們會檢討"},{"start":12464.04,"end":12466.04,"text":"好現在處理臨時提案共兩案請宣讀"},{"start":12466.04,"end":12468.04,"text":"臨時提案一"},{"start":12468.04,"end":12470.04,"text":"鑑於國家語言整體發展方案中"},{"start":12470.04,"end":12474.04,"text":"原著民族族語節目影音製作計畫"},{"start":12474.04,"end":12476.04,"text":"跨國族語節目"},{"start":12476.04,"end":12478.04,"text":"製播計畫所編列經費"},{"start":12478.04,"end":12480.04,"text":"應用於族語節目"},{"start":12480.04,"end":12482.04,"text":"製播及人才培育之用"},{"start":12482.04,"end":12486.04,"text":"維基經典迷你劇遠洋時代及族語戲劇劇本爭議後"},{"start":12486.04,"end":12490.04,"text":"再度發聲以世界原著民族運動會為名"},{"start":12490.04,"end":12492.04,"text":"將族語節目製播經費支應"},{"start":12492.04,"end":12495.04,"text":"與族語推廣關聯性不足之賽"},{"start":12495.04,"end":12497.04,"text":"及周邊活動"},{"start":12497.04,"end":12500.04,"text":"已有經費用途偏離原定政策目的之疑慮"},{"start":12500.04,"end":12505.04,"text":"令海陸南島與主航海計畫投入3850萬元"},{"start":12505.04,"end":12509.04,"text":"原定兩天一夜之航程最終縮短為約三小時"},{"start":12509.04,"end":12513.04,"text":"並發生船體受損及未完成原定航程等情形"},{"start":12513.04,"end":12516.04,"text":"事後卻仍以圓滿成功對外宣傳"},{"start":12516.04,"end":12522.04,"text":"相關檢討報告意味具體釐清決策規劃旅約管理及就責責任"},{"start":12522.04,"end":12529.04,"text":"有原著民族廣播電台訊源傳播及監控系統設備建置與相關基地台設置案"},{"start":12529.04,"end":12531.04,"text":"原預計十個月內完工"},{"start":12531.04,"end":12534.04,"text":"歷經將近十年仍未完成"},{"start":12534.04,"end":12537.04,"text":"迄今意味見原文會就契約管理工程延宕"},{"start":12537.04,"end":12539.04,"text":"廠商違約"},{"start":12539.04,"end":12542.04,"text":"驗收控管及相關人員責任提出完整說明"},{"start":12542.04,"end":12544.04,"text":"為釐清經費用途至合法性"},{"start":12544.04,"end":12548.04,"text":"計畫執行是否符合政策目的及相關責任歸屬"},{"start":12548.04,"end":12552.04,"text":"原請原住民族委員會及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會"},{"start":12552.04,"end":12557.04,"text":"於一個月內辦理下列事項並以書面含附立法院內政委員會"},{"start":12557.04,"end":12560.04,"text":"一主案說明預算來源核定計畫"},{"start":12560.04,"end":12562.04,"text":"實際支用項目"},{"start":12562.04,"end":12565.04,"text":"經而及其與足以政策目的之關聯性"},{"start":12565.04,"end":12570.04,"text":"二檢討個案規劃採購旅約驗收及監督及督導過程"},{"start":12570.04,"end":12572.04,"text":"並釐清原民會原文會"},{"start":12572.04,"end":12575.04,"text":"承辦人員及旅約廠商自責任"},{"start":12575.04,"end":12580.04,"text":"三針對旅約情形計畫延宕執行成果"},{"start":12580.04,"end":12585.04,"text":"為符預期及經費使用缺失情形核定提出檢討"},{"start":12585.04,"end":12588.04,"text":"四提出具體改善措施"},{"start":12588.04,"end":12592.04,"text":"包括經費控管重大計畫風險評估旅約查核"},{"start":12592.04,"end":12596.04,"text":"資訊公開及究責機制避免類似情形再次發生"},{"start":12596.04,"end":12600.04,"text":"五請原文會說明上開一至四"},{"start":12600.04,"end":12603.04,"text":"取原民會說明監督原文會之改善情形"},{"start":12603.04,"end":12605.04,"text":"提案人高晶素梅等人"},{"start":12605.04,"end":12612.04,"text":"臨時提案二有鑒於原住民人口自114年至115年6月底"},{"start":12612.04,"end":12616.04,"text":"增加近2.6萬人增幅約4.24%"},{"start":12616.04,"end":12623.04,"text":"然原住民主委員會卻未同步向行政院爭取相應之預算及人力資源"},{"start":12623.04,"end":12626.04,"text":"現有各項原住民主政策福利及補助資源"},{"start":12626.04,"end":12631.04,"text":"孔英服務對象持續增加而遭稀釋影響既有族人權益"},{"start":12631.04,"end":12636.04,"text":"又目前審議之原住民身份法修正草案意味見原民會"},{"start":12636.04,"end":12642.04,"text":"就各項修法可能增加資源住民族人口各項福利政策影響"},{"start":12642.04,"end":12645.04,"text":"所需預算規模中央及地方政府配套措施"},{"start":12645.04,"end":12651.04,"text":"以及各部會應辦事項進行完整評估恐影響後續政策推動及財政規劃"},{"start":12651.04,"end":12656.04,"text":"據此原請原住民主委員會於兩個月內完成整體影響評估"},{"start":12656.04,"end":12660.04,"text":"並以書面送至立法院內政委員會內容至少包括"},{"start":12660.04,"end":12664.04,"text":"一近兩年原住民族人口增加情形及未來人口推估"},{"start":12664.04,"end":12671.04,"text":"二希拉雅族及其他評估原住民族族群納入後各項政策福利及服務對象增加情形"},{"start":12671.04,"end":12678.04,"text":"三原住民身份法修正後可能增加人口數各項預算需求及財政影響分析"},{"start":12678.04,"end":12684.04,"text":"四各部會因新增原住民族人口應配合辦理事項經費需求及分工規劃"},{"start":12684.04,"end":12691.04,"text":"五原住原民會向行政院爭取新增預算及人力資源之具體規劃與期程"},{"start":12691.04,"end":12695.04,"text":"提案人高晶素梅等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":12695.04,"end":12700.04,"text":"好兩位應該都公通過了請問提案委員有要說明的嗎"},{"start":12700.04,"end":12702.04,"text":"提案委員有要說明的嗎"},{"start":12714.04,"end":12718.04,"text":"好臨時提案第二個我大概說明一下"},{"start":12718.04,"end":12721.04,"text":"我是覺得這個大家的想法是很好"},{"start":12721.04,"end":12724.04,"text":"但是呢大家要審慎評估一下"},{"start":12724.04,"end":12729.04,"text":"就是我們原住民身份法的修正草案如果OK的話"},{"start":12729.04,"end":12733.04,"text":"那個基層的民意代表可能會影響到"},{"start":12733.04,"end":12737.04,"text":"那是不是其他的委員也能夠支持"},{"start":12737.04,"end":12740.04,"text":"因為人口增加了我們大家地方選舉啊"},{"start":12740.04,"end":12743.04,"text":"包括代表代表議員"},{"start":12743.04,"end":12749.04,"text":"所以我今天這個臨時提案就是希望這個原民會能夠完整的提出"},{"start":12749.04,"end":12752.04,"text":"以下的幾點大家沒有想到的"},{"start":12752.04,"end":12755.04,"text":"包括財政的增加"},{"start":12755.04,"end":12759.04,"text":"我們的政府行政院是不是能夠多給我們"},{"start":12759.04,"end":12761.04,"text":"那這些如果都沒有考量到的話"},{"start":12761.04,"end":12765.04,"text":"我覺得修法其實真的會影響蠻大的"},{"start":12765.04,"end":12771.04,"text":"所以以上提供這個臨時提案的一二三四五項"},{"start":12771.04,"end":12773.04,"text":"供在場的委員們參考"},{"start":12773.04,"end":12775.04,"text":"也請原民會參考謝謝"},{"start":12780.04,"end":12785.04,"text":"主委就按照剛才你們要回應嗎"},{"start":12785.04,"end":12787.04,"text":"是"},{"start":12787.04,"end":12789.04,"text":"李柏惟"},{"start":12791.04,"end":12796.04,"text":"請提問說明一下剛高進委員講的臨時提案第二案"},{"start":12796.04,"end":12798.04,"text":"委員這個說明這個"},{"start":12798.04,"end":12802.04,"text":"需要我們提供書面報告這樣的一個評估的作業"},{"start":12802.04,"end":12805.04,"text":"那事實上涉及的非常廣泛"},{"start":12805.04,"end":12809.04,"text":"那我們是希望說是不是有可能給我們再多一點的時間"},{"start":12809.04,"end":12813.04,"text":"因為兩個月可能這些東西要去規劃出來有困難"},{"start":12813.04,"end":12815.04,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":12815.04,"end":12817.04,"text":"今天要修法"},{"start":12817.04,"end":12820.04,"text":"時間我沒有意見了"},{"start":12820.04,"end":12825.04,"text":"當然就是你們一定要完整的這些評估報告還有這些"},{"start":12825.04,"end":12831.04,"text":"我覺得就是你可能要問一下在場的其他的提案人員他們的意見"},{"start":12831.04,"end":12835.04,"text":"因為今天有其他的委員要審身分法"},{"start":12835.04,"end":12838.04,"text":"然後其實那個具體真的是會有影響的"},{"start":12838.04,"end":12845.04,"text":"因為我們之前協調相關法案我們有講過我們這樣118個法規命令或是法律要做調整"},{"start":12845.04,"end":12847.04,"text":"那我們9月30號會回收"},{"start":12847.04,"end":12849.04,"text":"那回收以後就會看得出來哪一個是要動的"},{"start":12849.04,"end":12851.04,"text":"你希望多久"},{"start":12851.04,"end":12857.04,"text":"提案二"},{"start":12857.04,"end":12859.04,"text":"對提案二的部分"},{"start":12859.04,"end":12861.04,"text":"提案三多久嗎"},{"start":12861.04,"end":12863.04,"text":"我上面寫兩個月"},{"start":12863.04,"end":12865.04,"text":"你們剛剛我提的說你們沒有意見"},{"start":12865.04,"end":12867.04,"text":"所以現在是有意見是嗎"},{"start":12867.04,"end":12869.04,"text":"我希望給我們多一點時間"},{"start":12869.04,"end":12871.04,"text":"OK沒問題啊"},{"start":12871.04,"end":12873.04,"text":"我覺得真的是要好好評估啦"},{"start":12873.04,"end":12875.04,"text":"原文會你們要負責任的"},{"start":12875.04,"end":12881.04,"text":"把12345我們盡可能考慮到想像到未來會"},{"start":12881.04,"end":12883.04,"text":"這樣子修法才是負責任的修法"},{"start":12883.04,"end":12885.04,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":12885.04,"end":12887.04,"text":"包括你還會影響到選舉"},{"start":12887.04,"end":12889.04,"text":"議員的選舉代表的選舉"},{"start":12889.04,"end":12891.04,"text":"大家還記得嗎"},{"start":12891.04,"end":12893.04,"text":"我們在修那個議員的選舉"},{"start":12893.04,"end":12895.04,"text":"還有代表的選舉的時候"},{"start":12895.04,"end":12897.04,"text":"在這個地方我們就討論了好多"},{"start":12897.04,"end":12899.04,"text":"光是增加一席增加兩席"},{"start":12899.04,"end":12901.04,"text":"就會整個影響到了"},{"start":12901.04,"end":12903.04,"text":"所以我認為大家還是要負責任的來修法"},{"start":12903.04,"end":12905.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12909.04,"end":12911.04,"text":"好謝謝啦"},{"start":12911.04,"end":12913.04,"text":"這個本來就應該尊重高經委員這邊"},{"start":12913.04,"end":12915.04,"text":"而且我覺得他提出"},{"start":12915.04,"end":12917.04,"text":"臨時提案二的內容"},{"start":12917.04,"end":12919.04,"text":"本來也是要面對啦"},{"start":12919.04,"end":12921.04,"text":"只是說你要多少時間"},{"start":12921.04,"end":12923.04,"text":"我們當然也希望不要拖太久"},{"start":12923.04,"end":12925.04,"text":"就尊重委員會這邊"},{"start":12925.04,"end":12927.04,"text":"那我們就同意三個月"},{"start":12927.04,"end":12929.04,"text":"之外我想要對臨時提案一"},{"start":12929.04,"end":12931.04,"text":"剛剛"},{"start":12931.04,"end":12933.04,"text":"臨時提案一的內容"},{"start":12933.04,"end":12935.04,"text":"我想要給一點建議"},{"start":12935.04,"end":12937.04,"text":"就是說好像跟我質詢的"},{"start":12937.04,"end":12939.04,"text":"好像這個"},{"start":12939.04,"end":12941.04,"text":"想像相反的"},{"start":12941.04,"end":12943.04,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":12943.04,"end":12945.04,"text":"文化"},{"start":12945.04,"end":12947.04,"text":"活動"},{"start":12947.04,"end":12949.04,"text":"內容 成功"},{"start":12949.04,"end":12951.04,"text":"我覺得都可以鼓勵"},{"start":12951.04,"end":12953.04,"text":"甚至我是有期待的"},{"start":12953.04,"end":12955.04,"text":"那高經委員提出來要檢討的內容"},{"start":12955.04,"end":12957.04,"text":"我覺得要檢討"},{"start":12957.04,"end":12959.04,"text":"要檢討沒有錯"},{"start":12959.04,"end":12961.04,"text":"但是我覺得"},{"start":12961.04,"end":12963.04,"text":"這個運動會跟推廣"},{"start":12963.04,"end":12965.04,"text":"跟直播節目計畫"},{"start":12965.04,"end":12967.04,"text":"他應該是一個"},{"start":12967.04,"end":12969.04,"text":"啊主委回來了"},{"start":12969.04,"end":12971.04,"text":"辛苦了"},{"start":12971.04,"end":12973.04,"text":"這應該是一個正面的東西"},{"start":12973.04,"end":12975.04,"text":"所以我們是不是可以"},{"start":12975.04,"end":12977.04,"text":"主席容我們跟"},{"start":12977.04,"end":12979.04,"text":"這個委員會跟高經委"},{"start":12979.04,"end":12981.04,"text":"我們一起來對臨時提案一的內容"},{"start":12981.04,"end":12983.04,"text":"我們來做一個討論好不好"},{"start":12987.04,"end":12989.04,"text":"剛剛"},{"start":12989.04,"end":12991.04,"text":"委員會其實有針對"},{"start":12991.04,"end":12993.04,"text":"臨時提案一的第三個部分"},{"start":12993.04,"end":12995.04,"text":"他已經有"},{"start":12995.04,"end":12997.04,"text":"有修正了"},{"start":12997.04,"end":12999.04,"text":"你們看一下"},{"start":12999.04,"end":13001.04,"text":"過來討論一下好不好"},{"start":13001.04,"end":13003.04,"text":"還是其他委員"},{"start":13003.04,"end":13005.04,"text":"有意見"},{"start":13011.04,"end":13013.04,"text":"對我來講"},{"start":13013.04,"end":13015.04,"text":"因為我"},{"start":13015.04,"end":13017.04,"text":"聽起來上次的"},{"start":13017.04,"end":13019.04,"text":"詢答跟今天的詢答"},{"start":13019.04,"end":13021.04,"text":"很多的委員"},{"start":13021.04,"end":13023.04,"text":"好像都很肯定"},{"start":13023.04,"end":13025.04,"text":"也希望"},{"start":13025.04,"end":13027.04,"text":"有永續性未來性"},{"start":13027.04,"end":13029.04,"text":"那也願意在"},{"start":13029.04,"end":13031.04,"text":"經費的分裂上"},{"start":13031.04,"end":13033.04,"text":"鼓勵原民會支持原民會"},{"start":13033.04,"end":13035.04,"text":"不過跟到這個"},{"start":13035.04,"end":13037.04,"text":"臨時提案的內容"},{"start":13037.04,"end":13039.04,"text":"我其實對下面"},{"start":13039.04,"end":13041.04,"text":"以書面函覆"},{"start":13041.04,"end":13043.04,"text":"的部分一二三四五"},{"start":13043.04,"end":13045.04,"text":"我個人是覺得這個"},{"start":13045.04,"end":13047.04,"text":"沒有問題但是有希望"},{"start":13047.04,"end":13049.04,"text":"是不是前面的那個"},{"start":13049.04,"end":13051.04,"text":"文字能夠改一下"},{"start":13051.04,"end":13053.04,"text":"就像剛才大家所提到的"},{"start":13053.04,"end":13055.04,"text":"好像有點背離"},{"start":13055.04,"end":13057.04,"text":"所以以我個人來講"},{"start":13057.04,"end":13059.04,"text":"我所知道的"},{"start":13059.04,"end":13061.04,"text":"其實以這個海陸"},{"start":13061.04,"end":13063.04,"text":"南島宇族航海計畫"},{"start":13063.04,"end":13065.04,"text":"這個我記得"},{"start":13065.04,"end":13067.04,"text":"有好幾年前就開始協助"},{"start":13067.04,"end":13069.04,"text":"各位瞭解經費的取得"},{"start":13069.04,"end":13071.04,"text":"相當不容易"},{"start":13071.04,"end":13073.04,"text":"非常的不容易"},{"start":13073.04,"end":13075.04,"text":"所以才會拖這麼多年"},{"start":13075.04,"end":13077.04,"text":"甚至呢"},{"start":13077.04,"end":13079.04,"text":"那個八丹島的省長"},{"start":13079.04,"end":13081.04,"text":"副省長他們也來訪"},{"start":13081.04,"end":13083.04,"text":"也關心"},{"start":13083.04,"end":13085.04,"text":"最後文化部有先給錢"},{"start":13085.04,"end":13087.04,"text":"反而是原民會"},{"start":13087.04,"end":13089.04,"text":"是最後"},{"start":13089.04,"end":13091.04,"text":"因為我們想說這個是"},{"start":13091.04,"end":13093.04,"text":"我們原住民的活動人家文化部都已經願意"},{"start":13093.04,"end":13095.04,"text":"支持了"},{"start":13095.04,"end":13097.04,"text":"那原民會不支持也不行"},{"start":13097.04,"end":13099.04,"text":"所以我知道的是經費取得"},{"start":13099.04,"end":13101.04,"text":"不容易而且呢"},{"start":13101.04,"end":13103.04,"text":"我也跨部會十個部會"},{"start":13103.04,"end":13105.04,"text":"協調過兩次"},{"start":13105.04,"end":13107.04,"text":"因為航海其實要處理的問題"},{"start":13107.04,"end":13109.04,"text":"非常的多"},{"start":13109.04,"end":13111.04,"text":"所以我覺得下面那個要所知的部分"},{"start":13111.04,"end":13113.04,"text":"我覺得倒沒有什麼意見"},{"start":13113.04,"end":13115.04,"text":"可是我覺得前面的那個"},{"start":13115.04,"end":13117.04,"text":"文字敘述"},{"start":13117.04,"end":13119.04,"text":"好像有一點"},{"start":13119.04,"end":13121.04,"text":"不是那麼理想"},{"start":13121.04,"end":13123.04,"text":"所以我也是建議說"},{"start":13123.04,"end":13125.04,"text":"文字修正的部分"},{"start":13125.04,"end":13127.04,"text":"大家可以討論"},{"start":13127.04,"end":13129.04,"text":"我扶贏那個李國毅召委"},{"start":13129.04,"end":13131.04,"text":"我是必須要說清楚一下"},{"start":13131.04,"end":13133.04,"text":"這個臨時提案"},{"start":13133.04,"end":13135.04,"text":"剛剛我們在質詢的時候"},{"start":13135.04,"end":13137.04,"text":"原民會教人處"},{"start":13137.04,"end":13139.04,"text":"部長講得很清楚"},{"start":13139.04,"end":13141.04,"text":"這兩個活動原住民日跟航海日"},{"start":13141.04,"end":13147.04,"text":"用的都是國家語言整體發展方案裡面的錢"},{"start":13147.04,"end":13151.04,"text":"當然原民會或原民會"},{"start":13151.04,"end":13153.04,"text":"你們想要辦任何一個活動"},{"start":13153.04,"end":13155.04,"text":"我們都全力支持"},{"start":13155.04,"end":13159.04,"text":"但是你不能夠把A的錢放到B的錢"},{"start":13159.04,"end":13163.04,"text":"甚至於我還非常樂意支持"},{"start":13163.04,"end":13165.04,"text":"以後全世界原住民的運動會"},{"start":13165.04,"end":13169.04,"text":"請原民會每年編公共預算"},{"start":13169.04,"end":13171.04,"text":"其他的部會我們也幫你爭取預算"},{"start":13171.04,"end":13173.04,"text":"讓他們每年每年的來做"},{"start":13173.04,"end":13177.04,"text":"而不是像現在你想到什麼要做什麼"},{"start":13177.04,"end":13179.04,"text":"那陳昱哥吳立華委員說的"},{"start":13179.04,"end":13183.04,"text":"111年文化部已經要給這筆錢了"},{"start":13183.04,"end":13187.04,"text":"就表示已經很早以前在講這個事情了"},{"start":13187.04,"end":13189.04,"text":"為什麼要在115年的時候"},{"start":13189.04,"end":13191.04,"text":"用國家語言整體方案的錢"},{"start":13191.04,"end":13193.04,"text":"來命這些事情呢"},{"start":13193.04,"end":13197.04,"text":"所以其實我不是不支持這兩個方案"},{"start":13197.04,"end":13199.04,"text":"我都很好"},{"start":13199.04,"end":13203.04,"text":"但是希望原民會回歸到你們的預算體制"},{"start":13203.04,"end":13205.04,"text":"國家語言整體發展方案"},{"start":13205.04,"end":13209.04,"text":"其實我們都知道它是四年計畫"},{"start":13209.04,"end":13211.04,"text":"對吧 處長是不是"},{"start":13211.04,"end":13213.04,"text":"每一年四年計畫"},{"start":13213.04,"end":13215.04,"text":"這四年計畫你們都要跟行政院報"},{"start":13215.04,"end":13217.04,"text":"還是它已經要結束了"},{"start":13217.04,"end":13219.04,"text":"對 好 如果是這樣的話"},{"start":13219.04,"end":13223.04,"text":"那你們能不能跟行政院開個會"},{"start":13223.04,"end":13227.04,"text":"以後這個所謂的海陸"},{"start":13227.04,"end":13231.04,"text":"還有原住民的運動會"},{"start":13231.04,"end":13235.04,"text":"希望行政院另外部門預算給你們"},{"start":13235.04,"end":13237.04,"text":"而不再用主語的這個部分"},{"start":13237.04,"end":13239.04,"text":"國家語言整體方案"},{"start":13239.04,"end":13243.04,"text":"我覺得這是不對的 好嗎"},{"start":13243.04,"end":13245.04,"text":"很好啊 那就很好啊"},{"start":13245.04,"end":13249.04,"text":"那就跟今天的臨時提案就沒有相衝突啊"},{"start":13249.04,"end":13251.04,"text":"那就透過這個提案就行了"},{"start":13251.04,"end":13253.04,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":13253.04,"end":13259.04,"text":"主席 我今天早上坐在這裡到現在"},{"start":13259.04,"end":13261.04,"text":"我仔細再聽"},{"start":13261.04,"end":13265.04,"text":"兩邊講完以後"},{"start":13265.04,"end":13267.04,"text":"我都覺得我現在的心情"},{"start":13267.04,"end":13269.04,"text":"我仔細再聽"},{"start":13269.04,"end":13273.04,"text":"兩邊講完以後"},{"start":13273.04,"end":13277.04,"text":"我聽到林建啟委員說明以後"},{"start":13277.04,"end":13279.04,"text":"我才知道說原來有這麼長的拖行"},{"start":13279.04,"end":13283.04,"text":"我現在跟各位報告"},{"start":13283.04,"end":13287.04,"text":"我們的祖先真的很偉大"},{"start":13287.04,"end":13289.04,"text":"我看這個是英文的文獻"},{"start":13289.04,"end":13291.04,"text":"這獨木舟CAMME"},{"start":13291.04,"end":13297.04,"text":"還有Double How Board"},{"start":13297.04,"end":13299.04,"text":"雙病人"},{"start":13299.04,"end":13301.04,"text":"我們三百多年前的祖先"},{"start":13301.04,"end":13303.04,"text":"要航行到萬丹"},{"start":13303.04,"end":13307.04,"text":"他們躺在獨木舟上"},{"start":13307.04,"end":13311.04,"text":"靠他的背感覺海浪"},{"start":13311.04,"end":13313.04,"text":"他知道這個是順流海"},{"start":13313.04,"end":13315.04,"text":"順流坡"},{"start":13315.04,"end":13319.04,"text":"還是逆流撞到海島再回來的坡"},{"start":13319.04,"end":13323.04,"text":"所以我們原文會太小看我們的祖先"},{"start":13323.04,"end":13327.04,"text":"所以你貌然出海才會造成這樣子"},{"start":13327.04,"end":13331.04,"text":"所以今天我客觀我第三檔"},{"start":13331.04,"end":13339.04,"text":"這個文字可能需要對原文會有所加油一下"},{"start":13339.04,"end":13343.04,"text":"但是也不要過刻"},{"start":13343.04,"end":13345.04,"text":"因為我們太小看我們的祖先"},{"start":13345.04,"end":13353.04,"text":"我們南島語族從台灣到剛才我第一個質詢那個麻豆"},{"start":13353.04,"end":13357.04,"text":"那個麻豆就是南島語族所共用的眼睛"},{"start":13357.04,"end":13363.04,"text":"能夠航行到自立外海的火地島"},{"start":13363.04,"end":13365.04,"text":"那是用跳島的"},{"start":13365.04,"end":13369.04,"text":"而美軍在二次大戰"},{"start":13369.04,"end":13371.04,"text":"就是用這個道理"},{"start":13371.04,"end":13375.04,"text":"逆向回攻日本本土"},{"start":13375.04,"end":13379.04,"text":"所以各位我們都要知道這些祖先的歷史跟智慧"},{"start":13379.04,"end":13383.04,"text":"所以我們今天兩邊坦白講都有道理"},{"start":13383.04,"end":13387.04,"text":"我們用則中的"},{"start":13387.04,"end":13393.04,"text":"我不知道要改什麼文字"},{"start":13393.04,"end":13397.04,"text":"你們原文會主委都說OK"},{"start":13397.04,"end":13399.04,"text":"所以請問一下我們"},{"start":13399.04,"end":13403.04,"text":"星期六他們的國語溝通的問題"},{"start":13403.04,"end":13407.04,"text":"各位臨時提案一"},{"start":13407.04,"end":13411.04,"text":"大家看一下那些文字就是原文會修的"},{"start":13411.04,"end":13413.04,"text":"他們說沒有問題"},{"start":13413.04,"end":13419.04,"text":"所以不知道現在在場的文字委員還有什麼意見"},{"start":13419.04,"end":13423.04,"text":"對那是他們修的我OK"},{"start":13423.04,"end":13427.04,"text":"來主席讓他們溝通一下"},{"start":13441.04,"end":13443.04,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":13443.04,"end":13447.04,"text":"第一是全言二是事實上"},{"start":13447.04,"end":13452.04,"text":"國家語言整體發展方案的確不是用在這裡"},{"start":13452.04,"end":13454.04,"text":"好不好不可以這樣子"},{"start":13454.04,"end":13456.04,"text":"這個最重要就是說"},{"start":13456.04,"end":13460.04,"text":"語言的錢就花在語言"},{"start":13460.04,"end":13462.04,"text":"而且現在我們有多少的主語老師"},{"start":13462.04,"end":13464.04,"text":"或者是家庭的主語的發展"},{"start":13464.04,"end":13468.04,"text":"我們現在都還非常的困難"},{"start":13468.04,"end":13472.04,"text":"你不可以拿A的錢去做B的事情"},{"start":13472.04,"end":13474.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13474.04,"end":13476.04,"text":"主委請溝通一下"},{"start":13478.04,"end":13482.04,"text":"主席拜託主委溝通一下"},{"start":13482.04,"end":13484.04,"text":"很快啦"},{"start":13484.04,"end":13486.04,"text":"應該你們的重點就在於最後一句話而已"},{"start":13486.04,"end":13488.04,"text":"已有經費用途"},{"start":13488.04,"end":13490.04,"text":"偏離原定之物"},{"start":13490.04,"end":13492.04,"text":"就是疑慮"},{"start":13492.04,"end":13494.04,"text":"疑慮有什麼"},{"start":13494.04,"end":13496.04,"text":"它並不是在批評"},{"start":13496.04,"end":13498.04,"text":"疑慮有什麼呢"},{"start":13498.04,"end":13500.04,"text":"這並不是一個類似譴責案這樣"},{"start":13500.04,"end":13502.04,"text":"不是這樣的概念"},{"start":13502.04,"end":13504.04,"text":"是不是"},{"start":13504.04,"end":13506.04,"text":"是不是"},{"start":13506.04,"end":13508.04,"text":"原民會覺得OK的話"},{"start":13508.04,"end":13510.04,"text":"是不是就"},{"start":13510.04,"end":13512.04,"text":"就依照原本的修正"},{"start":13512.04,"end":13514.04,"text":"意見通過這樣子"},{"start":13514.04,"end":13516.04,"text":"什麼"},{"start":13516.04,"end":13518.04,"text":"你如果沒意見"},{"start":13518.04,"end":13520.04,"text":"好"},{"start":13520.04,"end":13522.04,"text":"那如果你用這個文章"},{"start":13522.04,"end":13524.04,"text":"看到第一段我就覺得是不肯定的"},{"start":13524.04,"end":13526.04,"text":"不是"},{"start":13526.04,"end":13528.04,"text":"我看到第一段我就覺得是不肯定的"},{"start":13528.04,"end":13530.04,"text":"只是在講情緒"},{"start":13530.04,"end":13532.04,"text":"修了"},{"start":13532.04,"end":13534.04,"text":"修了"},{"start":13534.04,"end":13536.04,"text":"修了"},{"start":13536.04,"end":13538.04,"text":"修了"},{"start":13538.04,"end":13540.04,"text":"他是修上面那一句"},{"start":13540.04,"end":13542.04,"text":"因為"},{"start":13542.04,"end":13544.04,"text":"說明關聯性"},{"start":13544.04,"end":13546.04,"text":"因為大家都覺得有關聯性"},{"start":13546.04,"end":13548.04,"text":"因為這個"},{"start":13548.04,"end":13550.04,"text":"主語推廣的機會"},{"start":13550.04,"end":13552.04,"text":"他可以連結到很多"},{"start":13552.04,"end":13554.04,"text":"剛剛處長"},{"start":13554.04,"end":13556.04,"text":"修的那幾個文字"},{"start":13556.04,"end":13558.04,"text":"我是同意啦"},{"start":13558.04,"end":13560.04,"text":"但是基本上我還是真的希望你們以後不要這麼做"},{"start":13560.04,"end":13562.04,"text":"他是修的就是"},{"start":13562.04,"end":13564.04,"text":"將主語節目"},{"start":13564.04,"end":13566.04,"text":"製播的經費"},{"start":13566.04,"end":13568.04,"text":"均應於主語的推廣"},{"start":13568.04,"end":13570.04,"text":"予以檢討"},{"start":13570.04,"end":13572.04,"text":"並說明其關聯性"},{"start":13572.04,"end":13574.04,"text":"並說明其關聯性"},{"start":13574.04,"end":13576.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13576.04,"end":13578.04,"text":"我覺得國家語言整體發展方案"},{"start":13578.04,"end":13580.04,"text":"因為直接說關聯性"},{"start":13580.04,"end":13582.04,"text":"我希望你下次不要再這樣子做"},{"start":13582.04,"end":13584.04,"text":"我希望你下次不要再這樣子做"},{"start":13584.04,"end":13586.04,"text":"這兩件事情都非常好"},{"start":13586.04,"end":13588.04,"text":"請你們跟行政院另外拿預算"},{"start":13588.04,"end":13590.04,"text":"不要再主語上面的錢去用"},{"start":13590.04,"end":13592.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13592.04,"end":13594.04,"text":"還有公司要來跟宣讀好不好"},{"start":13594.04,"end":13596.04,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13596.04,"end":13598.04,"text":"我們老人家也支持"},{"start":13598.04,"end":13600.04,"text":"我們老人家也支持"},{"start":13600.04,"end":13602.04,"text":"原住民"},{"start":13602.04,"end":13604.04,"text":"阿嬤是這樣玩"},{"start":13604.04,"end":13606.04,"text":"你們好了啦"},{"start":13606.04,"end":13608.04,"text":"我要繼續囉"},{"start":13608.04,"end":13610.04,"text":"好我們第一案及第二案"},{"start":13610.04,"end":13612.04,"text":"照修正通過"},{"start":13612.04,"end":13614.04,"text":"好"},{"start":13614.04,"end":13616.04,"text":"沒有我們"},{"start":13616.04,"end":13618.04,"text":"中午不休息繼續開會"},{"start":13618.04,"end":13620.04,"text":"登記質詢委員"},{"start":13620.04,"end":13622.04,"text":"除不在場者外"},{"start":13622.04,"end":13624.04,"text":"其餘均已質詢完畢"},{"start":13624.04,"end":13626.04,"text":"委員訊答結束"},{"start":13626.04,"end":13628.04,"text":"委員張志倫許心瑩所提書面質詢"},{"start":13628.04,"end":13630.04,"text":"列入記錄刊登公報"},{"start":13630.04,"end":13632.04,"text":"書面質詢和未集答覆部分請相關單位"},{"start":13632.04,"end":13634.04,"text":"於一週內以書面答覆"},{"start":13634.04,"end":13636.04,"text":"並複製本會"},{"start":13636.04,"end":13638.04,"text":"好"},{"start":13638.04,"end":13640.04,"text":"報告委員會"},{"start":13640.04,"end":13642.04,"text":"現在進行法案審查"},{"start":13642.04,"end":13644.04,"text":"請宣讀討論事項所有條文"},{"start":13644.04,"end":13646.04,"text":"修正動議"},{"start":13646.04,"end":13648.04,"text":"請一併宣讀"},{"start":13648.04,"end":13650.04,"text":"請宣讀"},{"start":13650.04,"end":13652.04,"text":"那整個過程大概十分鐘"},{"start":13652.04,"end":13654.04,"text":"那大家可以趁這段時間休息"},{"start":13654.04,"end":13656.04,"text":"好"},{"start":13656.04,"end":13658.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13658.04,"end":13660.04,"text":"原住民身份法"},{"start":13660.04,"end":13662.04,"text":"第一條委員郭國文"},{"start":13662.04,"end":13664.04,"text":"等十六人提案修正違違認定原住民身份"},{"start":13664.04,"end":13666.04,"text":"保障原住民權益"},{"start":13666.04,"end":13668.04,"text":"並依據憲法法庭"},{"start":13668.04,"end":13670.04,"text":"一百十一年"},{"start":13670.04,"end":13672.04,"text":"憲判自第十七號判決"},{"start":13672.04,"end":13674.04,"text":"主文所揭示之意旨"},{"start":13674.04,"end":13676.04,"text":"確認憲法徵修條文第十條"},{"start":13676.04,"end":13678.04,"text":"第十一項及第十二項前段"},{"start":13678.04,"end":13680.04,"text":"所保障自原住民族"},{"start":13680.04,"end":13682.04,"text":"因包劃寄存於台灣之所有"},{"start":13682.04,"end":13684.04,"text":"台灣南島與西民族"},{"start":13684.04,"end":13686.04,"text":"第二條委員鄭天才"},{"start":13686.04,"end":13688.04,"text":"等十八人提案委員黃仁等十九人"},{"start":13688.04,"end":13690.04,"text":"提案刪除第二"},{"start":13690.04,"end":13692.04,"text":"第二款末段並申請戶籍"},{"start":13692.04,"end":13694.04,"text":"所在地鄉鎮市區公所"},{"start":13694.04,"end":13696.04,"text":"登記為平地原住民有案等"},{"start":13696.04,"end":13698.04,"text":"文字其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13698.04,"end":13700.04,"text":"委員吳立華等十八人提案"},{"start":13700.04,"end":13702.04,"text":"修正違違本法所稱原住民如下"},{"start":13702.04,"end":13704.04,"text":"依山地行政區原住民"},{"start":13704.04,"end":13706.04,"text":"依戶口調查部"},{"start":13706.04,"end":13708.04,"text":"原籍在山地行政區域內且本人或"},{"start":13708.04,"end":13710.04,"text":"直系血清專清署"},{"start":13710.04,"end":13712.04,"text":"已登錄為原住民者"},{"start":13712.04,"end":13714.04,"text":"二平地行政區原住民依戶口"},{"start":13714.04,"end":13716.04,"text":"調查部原籍在平地行政"},{"start":13716.04,"end":13718.04,"text":"區域內且本人或直系血清"},{"start":13718.04,"end":13720.04,"text":"專清署已登錄為原住民"},{"start":13720.04,"end":13722.04,"text":"並經戶籍所在地鄉鎮市區公所"},{"start":13722.04,"end":13724.04,"text":"完成平地行政區原住民"},{"start":13724.04,"end":13726.04,"text":"身份的記者"},{"start":13726.04,"end":13728.04,"text":"三同屬南島羽系民族之其他"},{"start":13728.04,"end":13730.04,"text":"台灣原住民族本人或直系血清"},{"start":13730.04,"end":13732.04,"text":"專清署屬於原籍"},{"start":13732.04,"end":13734.04,"text":"於相關行政區內且依戶籍"},{"start":13734.04,"end":13736.04,"text":"或其他客觀歷史記錄"},{"start":13736.04,"end":13738.04,"text":"可證明其屬南島羽系民族者"},{"start":13738.04,"end":13740.04,"text":"前項第三款所稱"},{"start":13740.04,"end":13742.04,"text":"同屬南島羽系民族之其他"},{"start":13742.04,"end":13744.04,"text":"台灣原住民族"},{"start":13744.04,"end":13746.04,"text":"關於民族權利身份認定及"},{"start":13746.04,"end":13748.04,"text":"相關政治參與資源"},{"start":13748.04,"end":13750.04,"text":"保障另以法律定制"},{"start":13750.04,"end":13752.04,"text":"並得依族群意願及歷史文化"},{"start":13752.04,"end":13754.04,"text":"完整性"},{"start":13754.04,"end":13756.04,"text":"足足分別推動認定"},{"start":13756.04,"end":13758.04,"text":"委員郭國文等十六人提案"},{"start":13758.04,"end":13760.04,"text":"第一項序文修正為"},{"start":13760.04,"end":13762.04,"text":"本法首參原住民包括山地原住民"},{"start":13762.04,"end":13764.04,"text":"平地原住民及平埔原住民"},{"start":13764.04,"end":13766.04,"text":"其身份之認定除本法另有"},{"start":13766.04,"end":13768.04,"text":"規定外一下列規定"},{"start":13768.04,"end":13770.04,"text":"第一款及第二款未修正"},{"start":13770.04,"end":13772.04,"text":"增訂第一項第三款"},{"start":13772.04,"end":13774.04,"text":"三平埔原住民本人或直系血清"},{"start":13774.04,"end":13776.04,"text":"專清署屬於台灣光復前原籍"},{"start":13776.04,"end":13778.04,"text":"在平地行政區域內"},{"start":13778.04,"end":13780.04,"text":"且戶口調查部登記屬於原住民者"},{"start":13780.04,"end":13782.04,"text":"或有客觀歷史記錄可佐證其為"},{"start":13782.04,"end":13784.04,"text":"台灣南島羽系民族者"},{"start":13784.04,"end":13786.04,"text":"增訂第二項"},{"start":13786.04,"end":13788.04,"text":"平埔原住民之原住民族集體權利"},{"start":13788.04,"end":13790.04,"text":"如原住民族基本法"},{"start":13790.04,"end":13792.04,"text":"應及適用"},{"start":13792.04,"end":13794.04,"text":"平埔原住民之個人權利"},{"start":13794.04,"end":13796.04,"text":"得依階段適用"},{"start":13796.04,"end":13798.04,"text":"部分未能及時適用者因此本法"},{"start":13798.04,"end":13800.04,"text":"施行後一年內完成"},{"start":13800.04,"end":13802.04,"text":"修法預期未完成者"},{"start":13802.04,"end":13804.04,"text":"直接適用現行原住民相關法令"},{"start":13804.04,"end":13806.04,"text":"第三條委員吳立華等18人提案"},{"start":13806.04,"end":13808.04,"text":"增訂第一項第四款"},{"start":13808.04,"end":13810.04,"text":"四 據前條同屬南島羽系民族"},{"start":13810.04,"end":13812.04,"text":"之其他台灣原住民族"},{"start":13812.04,"end":13814.04,"text":"身份要件事實者"},{"start":13814.04,"end":13816.04,"text":"其本人及直系血清專清署"},{"start":13816.04,"end":13818.04,"text":"取用所屬原住民族之傳統名字"},{"start":13818.04,"end":13820.04,"text":"或取用漢人"},{"start":13820.04,"end":13822.04,"text":"姓名並與原住民族文字"},{"start":13822.04,"end":13824.04,"text":"並列所屬原住民族之姓名"},{"start":13824.04,"end":13826.04,"text":"該姓名得依原住民族"},{"start":13826.04,"end":13828.04,"text":"姓名文化沿用或創製"},{"start":13828.04,"end":13830.04,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13830.04,"end":13832.04,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13832.04,"end":13834.04,"text":"第四條委員吳立華等18人提案"},{"start":13834.04,"end":13836.04,"text":"增訂第一項第四款"},{"start":13836.04,"end":13838.04,"text":"四 據本法第二條平譜原住民身份要件事實者"},{"start":13838.04,"end":13840.04,"text":"其本人及直系血清專清署"},{"start":13840.04,"end":13842.04,"text":"及其直系血清杯清署"},{"start":13842.04,"end":13844.04,"text":"取用所屬原住民族之傳統名字"},{"start":13844.04,"end":13846.04,"text":"或取用漢人姓名"},{"start":13846.04,"end":13848.04,"text":"並與原住民族文字並列"},{"start":13848.04,"end":13850.04,"text":"其所屬原住民族之姓名"},{"start":13850.04,"end":13852.04,"text":"該姓名得依原住民族"},{"start":13852.04,"end":13854.04,"text":"姓名文化沿用或創製"},{"start":13854.04,"end":13856.04,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13856.04,"end":13858.04,"text":"四 委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13858.04,"end":13860.04,"text":"本條內容未修正"},{"start":13860.04,"end":13862.04,"text":"委員盧憲一等17人提案"},{"start":13862.04,"end":13864.04,"text":"第一項續文修正為非原住民"},{"start":13864.04,"end":13866.04,"text":"精無子女前後"},{"start":13866.04,"end":13868.04,"text":"且婚後三年未能自然受孕"},{"start":13868.04,"end":13870.04,"text":"或經醫療機構診斷為不孕之"},{"start":13870.04,"end":13872.04,"text":"原住民雙親共同收養"},{"start":13872.04,"end":13874.04,"text":"且符合下列各款規定者取得原住民身份"},{"start":13874.04,"end":13876.04,"text":"第二項刪除需年滿40歲之文字"},{"start":13876.04,"end":13878.04,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13878.04,"end":13880.04,"text":"第五條委員吳立華等18人提案"},{"start":13880.04,"end":13882.04,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13882.04,"end":13884.04,"text":"刪除第一項第四款及第三項"},{"start":13884.04,"end":13886.04,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13886.04,"end":13888.04,"text":"委員陳瑩等16人提案"},{"start":13888.04,"end":13890.04,"text":"增訂第四項"},{"start":13890.04,"end":13892.04,"text":"依第一項第四款規定上司原住民身份者"},{"start":13892.04,"end":13894.04,"text":"自本法全年全月簽日修正施行後"},{"start":13894.04,"end":13896.04,"text":"原住民身份不上司"},{"start":13896.04,"end":13898.04,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13898.04,"end":13900.04,"text":"第六條委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13900.04,"end":13902.04,"text":"第一項刪除或"},{"start":13902.04,"end":13904.04,"text":"重拒原住民身份之父或母之姓等文字"},{"start":13904.04,"end":13906.04,"text":"另刪除第三項"},{"start":13906.04,"end":13908.04,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13908.04,"end":13910.04,"text":"第七條委員吳立華等18人提案"},{"start":13910.04,"end":13912.04,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13912.04,"end":13914.04,"text":"刪除第七條委員曾天才等20人提案"},{"start":13914.04,"end":13916.04,"text":"委員黃仁等18人提案"},{"start":13916.04,"end":13918.04,"text":"第七項第七條末段子女修正為直系血親背親屬"},{"start":13918.04,"end":13920.04,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13920.04,"end":13922.04,"text":"委員吳立華等18人提案"},{"start":13922.04,"end":13924.04,"text":"增訂第二項得依第三條第一項規定"},{"start":13924.04,"end":13926.04,"text":"申請取用或以原住民族文字"},{"start":13926.04,"end":13928.04,"text":"並列原住民族傳統名字"},{"start":13928.04,"end":13932.04,"text":"或從居原住民身份之父或母之姓"},{"start":13932.04,"end":13934.04,"text":"而取得原住民身份"},{"start":13934.04,"end":13936.04,"text":"於本法中華民國全年全月全日"},{"start":13936.04,"end":13938.04,"text":"修正施行前死亡者"},{"start":13938.04,"end":13940.04,"text":"其子女准用第三條及前條"},{"start":13940.04,"end":13942.04,"text":"規定取用原住民族傳統名字"},{"start":13942.04,"end":13944.04,"text":"取得原住民身份其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13944.04,"end":13945.320000000002,"text":"其餘同線情條文"},{"start":13945.320000000002,"end":13947.240000000002,"text":"第八條委員吳麗華等18人提案"},{"start":13947.240000000002,"end":13948.400000000001,"text":"第一項修正為"},{"start":13948.400000000001,"end":13952.240000000002,"text":"三地行政區原住民與平地行政區原住民結婚"},{"start":13952.240000000002,"end":13955.92,"text":"的約定變更為相同之三地行政區原住民"},{"start":13955.92,"end":13958.04,"text":"或平地行政區原住民身份"},{"start":13958.04,"end":13959.84,"text":"其子女之身份從之"},{"start":13959.84,"end":13961.080000000002,"text":"第二項末段修正為"},{"start":13961.080000000002,"end":13965.92,"text":"取得三地行政區原住民或平地行政區原住民身份"},{"start":13965.92,"end":13971.2,"text":"其餘同線情條文"},{"start":13971.2,"end":13973.6,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13973.640000000001,"end":13975.08,"text":"請刪除線情條文第七條"},{"start":13975.08,"end":13977.24,"text":"線情條文第八條至第十二條"},{"start":13977.24,"end":13980.2,"text":"條次變更為第七條至第十一條"},{"start":13980.2,"end":13982.12,"text":"修正條文第七條內容修正為"},{"start":13982.12,"end":13985.04,"text":"三地原住民、平地原住民與平埔原住民"},{"start":13985.04,"end":13987.28,"text":"跨身份結婚的約定變更為"},{"start":13987.28,"end":13988.56,"text":"相同之原住民身份"},{"start":13988.56,"end":13990.28,"text":"其子女之身份從之"},{"start":13990.28,"end":13991.48,"text":"位議前項約定"},{"start":13991.48,"end":13993.2,"text":"變更為相同原住民身份者"},{"start":13993.2,"end":13995.880000000001,"text":"其子女於未成年時的有法定代理人協議"},{"start":13995.880000000001,"end":13998.08,"text":"選定其原住民身份成年後"},{"start":13998.08,"end":14000,"text":"得以其個人意願選擇取得"},{"start":14000,"end":14003.52,"text":"三地原住民、平地原住民或平埔原住民身份"},{"start":14004,"end":14006.12,"text":"第十一條委員林怡錦等22人提案"},{"start":14006.12,"end":14007.76,"text":"第一項末段修正為"},{"start":14007.76,"end":14010.04,"text":"或由當事人相互證事務所申請查明"},{"start":14010.04,"end":14011.720000000001,"text":"並為撤銷或更正這登記"},{"start":14011.720000000001,"end":14013.44,"text":"刪除戶籍所在地等文字"},{"start":14013.44,"end":14014.56,"text":"增訂第二項"},{"start":14014.56,"end":14016.800000000001,"text":"經中央主管機關公告承認至原住民"},{"start":14016.800000000001,"end":14018.92,"text":"主其熟人及其直系血清飛行署"},{"start":14018.92,"end":14021.720000000001,"text":"因政府限定登記期間或其他歷史因素"},{"start":14021.720000000001,"end":14023.720000000001,"text":"至漏位登記為原住民身份者"},{"start":14023.720000000001,"end":14025.16,"text":"得檢去相關證明文件"},{"start":14025.16,"end":14026.92,"text":"相互證事務所申請查明"},{"start":14026.92,"end":14029.880000000001,"text":"並為更正這登記已取得原住民身份"},{"start":14029.880000000001,"end":14031.36,"text":"其餘同線情條文"},{"start":14031.400000000001,"end":14033.16,"text":"委員高欽素梅等17人提案"},{"start":14033.16,"end":14034.480000000001,"text":"刪除第十一條"},{"start":14038.400000000001,"end":14041,"text":"原住民身份法第二條修正動議"},{"start":14041,"end":14042.560000000001,"text":"第二條本法所稱原住民"},{"start":14042.560000000001,"end":14044.400000000001,"text":"包含3D原住民及平地原住民"},{"start":14044.400000000001,"end":14045.28,"text":"其身份之認定"},{"start":14045.28,"end":14047.36,"text":"除本法另有規定外溢下列規定"},{"start":14047.36,"end":14049.2,"text":"依3D原住民台灣光復前"},{"start":14049.2,"end":14050.68,"text":"員級在3D行政區域內"},{"start":14050.68,"end":14052.560000000001,"text":"且日治時期戶口調查部"},{"start":14052.560000000001,"end":14054.560000000001,"text":"登記其本人或直系血清專金屬"},{"start":14054.560000000001,"end":14057.2,"text":"屬於身、身、翻或高殺族的二"},{"start":14057.2,"end":14058.720000000001,"text":"平地原住民台灣光復前"},{"start":14058.720000000001,"end":14060.52,"text":"員級在平定時任區域內"},{"start":14060.560000000001,"end":14062.08,"text":"且日治時期戶口調查部"},{"start":14062.08,"end":14064.08,"text":"登記其本人或直系血清專金屬"},{"start":14064.08,"end":14066.48,"text":"屬於身、身、翻、沒或高殺族者"},{"start":14066.48,"end":14068.44,"text":"但於台灣省政府辦理"},{"start":14068.44,"end":14070,"text":"平地三包登記期間"},{"start":14070,"end":14072.560000000001,"text":"向鄉鎮市區公所申請登記有案者"},{"start":14072.560000000001,"end":14073.52,"text":"易屬之"},{"start":14073.52,"end":14075.560000000001,"text":"提案人王宏威等人"},{"start":14077.24,"end":14079.4,"text":"原住民族基本法第二條"},{"start":14079.4,"end":14081,"text":"委員吳麗華等17人提案"},{"start":14081,"end":14082.880000000001,"text":"第一款增列薩奇拉雅族"},{"start":14082.880000000001,"end":14085.92,"text":"賽德克族拉阿魯瓦族"},{"start":14085.92,"end":14088.28,"text":"卡納卡納婦族其餘同線情條文"},{"start":14088.28,"end":14089.720000000001,"text":"委員林一景等18人提案"},{"start":14089.72,"end":14091.56,"text":"第一款修正為原住民族系子"},{"start":14091.56,"end":14095.4,"text":"所有寄存於台灣而為國家管轄內支"},{"start":14095.4,"end":14097.4,"text":"傳統台灣南島語系民族"},{"start":14097.4,"end":14099.199999999999,"text":"包括所有依原住民身份法"},{"start":14099.199999999999,"end":14101.439999999999,"text":"及平埔原住民族群身份法"},{"start":14101.439999999999,"end":14104.039999999999,"text":"取得身份之民族及其成員"},{"start":14104.039999999999,"end":14105.72,"text":"及其他自認為原住民族"},{"start":14105.72,"end":14108.519999999999,"text":"並經中央原住民族主管機關報請"},{"start":14108.519999999999,"end":14110,"text":"實驗院和定制民族"},{"start":14110,"end":14111.439999999999,"text":"其餘同線情條文"},{"start":14111.439999999999,"end":14113.199999999999,"text":"增訂第二條至二"},{"start":14113.199999999999,"end":14115.199999999999,"text":"委員吳麗華等17人提案"},{"start":14115.199999999999,"end":14117.08,"text":"訂定8月1日為原住民族日"},{"start":14117.08,"end":14119.68,"text":"以彰顯原住民族正名之歷史意義"},{"start":14119.68,"end":14121.68,"text":"尊重原住民族地位與權益"},{"start":14121.68,"end":14126.12,"text":"促進各族認識原住民族文化價值"},{"start":14126.12,"end":14128.6,"text":"第八條委員吳麗華等17人提案"},{"start":14128.6,"end":14130.36,"text":"第一項修正為職家室"},{"start":14130.36,"end":14132.36,"text":"狹有原住民族地區資"},{"start":14132.36,"end":14135.32,"text":"縣籍原住民社籍人數達1500人以上"},{"start":14135.32,"end":14138.12,"text":"至縣市其支家市縣政府"},{"start":14138.12,"end":14140.12,"text":"因設原住民族專責機關"},{"start":14140.12,"end":14141.48,"text":"辦理原住民族事務"},{"start":14141.48,"end":14143.76,"text":"其餘至縣市政府的是實際需要"},{"start":14143.76,"end":14146.44,"text":"設原住民族專責單位或專制人"},{"start":14147.08,"end":14150.28,"text":"辦理原住民族事務其餘同縣行條文"},{"start":14150.28,"end":14152.72,"text":"第十四條委員吳麗華等17人提案"},{"start":14152.72,"end":14153.52,"text":"增列第二項"},{"start":14153.52,"end":14156.44,"text":"政府應促進原住民數位平權"},{"start":14156.44,"end":14158.6,"text":"支持原住民提升科技素養"},{"start":14158.6,"end":14159.96,"text":"培育科技領域人才"},{"start":14159.96,"end":14162.84,"text":"促進原住民享有學習新興科技機會"},{"start":14162.84,"end":14164.68,"text":"並鼓勵原住民善用前瞻科技"},{"start":14164.68,"end":14166.12,"text":"以創造社會福祉"},{"start":14166.12,"end":14167.52,"text":"其餘同縣行條文"},{"start":14167.52,"end":14169.8,"text":"第十九條委員吳麗華等17人提案"},{"start":14169.8,"end":14173.88,"text":"第一項序文前段新增知土地基河川"},{"start":14173.88,"end":14175.84,"text":"第一項第三款新增漂流母"},{"start":14175.960000000001,"end":14177.2,"text":"其餘同縣行條文"},{"start":14177.2,"end":14179.28,"text":"第21條委員吳麗華等17人提案"},{"start":14179.28,"end":14181.4,"text":"第一項及第四項刪除公有二字"},{"start":14181.4,"end":14184.84,"text":"第四項二段修正為所生之損失補償等事項"},{"start":14184.84,"end":14187.24,"text":"另以法律訂知其餘同縣行條文"},{"start":14187.24,"end":14188.8,"text":"委員吳麗華等21人提案"},{"start":14188.8,"end":14190.960000000001,"text":"第一項修正為政府或私人於"},{"start":14190.960000000001,"end":14193.2,"text":"原住民族土地內從事土地開發資源"},{"start":14193.2,"end":14195.52,"text":"利用生態保育及學術研究"},{"start":14195.52,"end":14199.04,"text":"因資商並取得原住民族或部落同意或參與"},{"start":14199.04,"end":14201.2,"text":"原住民的分享相關利益"},{"start":14201.2,"end":14203.44,"text":"第四項刪除或部落及其"},{"start":14203.44,"end":14205.64,"text":"及周邊一定範圍內之公有土地"},{"start":14205.64,"end":14207.72,"text":"增訂第五項前項提案"},{"start":14207.72,"end":14209.16,"text":"經部落否決者"},{"start":14209.16,"end":14211.119999999999,"text":"自該否決之日期兩年內"},{"start":14211.119999999999,"end":14214.599999999999,"text":"不得就該事項重新提出其餘同縣行條文"},{"start":14214.599999999999,"end":14215.88,"text":"增訂第21條之一"},{"start":14215.88,"end":14217.8,"text":"委員吳麗華等21人提案"},{"start":14217.8,"end":14220.439999999999,"text":"以強暴脅迫或其他非法之方法"},{"start":14220.439999999999,"end":14224.119999999999,"text":"妨礙他人為資商取得原住民族部落同意之"},{"start":14224.119999999999,"end":14226.439999999999,"text":"提案撤回提案連署或投票"},{"start":14226.4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確認有沒有委員想要"},{"start":14707.36,"end":14709.36,"text":"做比較"},{"start":14709.36,"end":14711.36,"text":"廣泛的發言"},{"start":14711.36,"end":14713.36,"text":"還是就照剛剛洪祿委員講的"},{"start":14713.36,"end":14715.36,"text":"我們另擇期處理"},{"start":14717.36,"end":14719.36,"text":"我補充了"},{"start":14719.36,"end":14721.36,"text":"補充洪祿委員"},{"start":14721.36,"end":14723.36,"text":"謝謝洪祿委員"},{"start":14723.36,"end":14725.36,"text":"我補充就是說這個"},{"start":14725.36,"end":14727.36,"text":"哪些條文是"},{"start":14727.36,"end":14729.36,"text":"屬於"},{"start":14729.36,"end":14731.36,"text":"跟平埔有關的"},{"start":14731.36,"end":14733.36,"text":"那因為已經有另外一個法律了嘛"},{"start":14733.36,"end":14735.36,"text":"就不予處理"},{"start":14735.36,"end":14737.36,"text":"就跟洪祿剛剛講的"},{"start":14737.36,"end":14739.36,"text":"第二個就是說"},{"start":14739.36,"end":14741.36,"text":"其他的跟平埔"},{"start":14741.36,"end":14743.36,"text":"無關的"},{"start":14743.36,"end":14745.36,"text":"但是是要修"},{"start":14745.36,"end":14747.36,"text":"現在的原住民身份法的部分"},{"start":14747.36,"end":14749.36,"text":"那個需要"},{"start":14749.36,"end":14751.36,"text":"怎麼樣去做修正的文字"},{"start":14751.36,"end":14753.36,"text":"就按照剛才洪祿講的"},{"start":14753.36,"end":14755.36,"text":"9月1號以前"},{"start":14755.36,"end":14757.36,"text":"把修正的文字"},{"start":14757.36,"end":14759.36,"text":"先檢視好"},{"start":14759.36,"end":14761.36,"text":"下次"},{"start":14761.36,"end":14763.36,"text":"開會的時候這樣會比較順利"},{"start":14763.36,"end":14765.36,"text":"以上"},{"start":14765.36,"end":14767.36,"text":"這個意思嘛"},{"start":14767.36,"end":14769.36,"text":"好 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那我就回去宣讀"},{"start":14807.36,"end":14809.36,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":14827.36,"end":14829.36,"text":"好"},{"start":14829.36,"end":14831.36,"text":"做一下決議"},{"start":14831.36,"end":14833.36,"text":"討論事項所列議案"},{"start":14833.36,"end":14835.36,"text":"軍令定期繼續審查"},{"start":14835.36,"end":14837.36,"text":"本次會議到此結束"},{"start":14837.36,"end":14839.36,"text":"現在上會"},{"start":14839.36,"end":14841.36,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":14841.36,"end":14843.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":14857.36,"end":14859.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":14887.36,"end":14889.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":14917.36,"end":14919.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":14947.36,"end":14949.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":14977.36,"end":14979.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15007.36,"end":15009.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15009.36,"end":15011.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15011.36,"end":15013.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15013.36,"end":15015.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15015.36,"end":15017.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15017.36,"end":15019.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15019.36,"end":15021.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15021.36,"end":15023.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15023.36,"end":15025.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15025.36,"end":15027.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15027.36,"end":15029.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15029.36,"end":15031.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15031.36,"end":15033.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15033.36,"end":15035.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15035.36,"end":15037.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15037.36,"end":15039.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15039.36,"end":15041.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15041.36,"end":15043.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15043.36,"end":15045.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15045.36,"end":15047.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15047.36,"end":15049.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15049.36,"end":15051.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15051.36,"end":15053.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15053.36,"end":15055.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15055.36,"end":15057.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15057.36,"end":15059.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15059.36,"end":15061.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15061.36,"end":15063.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15063.36,"end":15065.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15065.36,"end":15067.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15067.36,"end":15069.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15069.36,"end":15071.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15071.36,"end":15073.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15073.36,"end":15075.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15075.36,"end":15077.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15077.36,"end":15079.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15079.36,"end":15081.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15081.36,"end":15083.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15083.36,"end":15085.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15085.36,"end":15087.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15087.36,"end":15089.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15089.36,"end":15091.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15091.36,"end":15093.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15093.36,"end":15095.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15095.36,"end":15097.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15097.36,"end":15099.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15099.36,"end":15101.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15101.36,"end":15103.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15103.36,"end":15105.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15105.36,"end":15107.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15107.36,"end":15109.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15109.36,"end":15111.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15111.36,"end":15113.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15113.36,"end":15115.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15115.36,"end":15117.36,"text":"Bye Bye"},{"start":15117.36,"end":15119.36,"text":"Bye Bye"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}