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Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民身分法部分條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「原住民身分法第十一條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員高金素梅等17人擬具「原住民身分法刪除第十一條條文草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員黃仁等19人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員黃仁等18人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員盧縣一等17人擬具「原住民身分法第四條條文修正草案」案。(十)審查委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五條條文修正草案」案。(十一)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。三、「原住民族基本法」等15案：(一)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二條之二條文草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員黃仁等30人擬具「原住民族基本法第十九條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃仁等26人擬具「原住民族基本法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員黃仁等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員黃仁等22人擬具「原住民族基本法第十條條文修正草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員黃仁等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第六條條文修正草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員高金素梅等20人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(十三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai 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現在進行報告"},{"start":2186.97,"end":2190.25,"text":"請我們原住民族委員會副主任委員"},{"start":2190.25,"end":2191.37,"text":"RW報告"},{"start":2196.35,"end":2198.79,"text":"兩項專題報告及討論事項"},{"start":2198.79,"end":2199.79,"text":"所列法人請一併報告"},{"start":2201.37,"end":2202.89,"text":"主席各位委員先進"},{"start":2202.89,"end":2204.5699999999997,"text":"今日受邀"},{"start":2204.5699999999997,"end":2206.5699999999997,"text":"海陸南島語族航海計畫"},{"start":2207.15,"end":2209.83,"text":"國際原住民族傳統競技文化交流"},{"start":2211.08,"end":2217.08,"text":"以及原住民族廣播電台訊源傳輸及監控系統設備建置"},{"start":2217.08,"end":2221.08,"text":"相關基地台建置等三項計畫之執行進度"},{"start":2221.08,"end":2224.08,"text":"經費的運用以及成果進行專案報告"},{"start":2224.08,"end":2226.08,"text":"以下分為三個部分報告"},{"start":2226.08,"end":2228.08,"text":"第一海陸"},{"start":2228.95,"end":2229.95,"text":"南島語族航海計畫"},{"start":2229.95,"end":2231.95,"text":"本計畫目的在重建"},{"start":2231.95,"end":2233.95,"text":"台灣南語與菲律賓巴丹群島"},{"start":2233.95,"end":2235.95,"text":"兼中斷三百年的海上航路"},{"start":2237.8999999999996,"end":2241.8999999999996,"text":"我們已經完成了建造20人座的傳統拼版舟"},{"start":2241.8999999999996,"end":2243.8999999999996,"text":"我白樣黃金友誼號"},{"start":2243.8999999999996,"end":2245.8999999999996,"text":"並在今年的6月15日到18日"},{"start":2245.8999999999996,"end":2249.8999999999996,"text":"由我國南語航行至菲律賓巴丹群島"},{"start":2249.8999999999996,"end":2253.8999999999996,"text":"完成跨越巴士海峽的歷史性航行"},{"start":2253.8999999999996,"end":2258.8999999999996,"text":"隨後在6月26日將改船正移巴丹省政府"},{"start":2258.8999999999996,"end":2261.8999999999996,"text":"象徵南島民族文化的再次連結"},{"start":2263.99,"end":2265.99,"text":"總經費3850萬"},{"start":2265.99,"end":2268.99,"text":"由本會以文化部、海洋委員會及外交部"},{"start":2270.1099999999997,"end":2275.1099999999997,"text":"目前已達成航行與文化交流等階段性目標"},{"start":2275.1099999999997,"end":2279.1099999999997,"text":"後續將持續進行族語影音節目的後製"},{"start":2279.1099999999997,"end":2283.1099999999997,"text":"以保存寶貴的傳統詔咒技術與航海知識"},{"start":2283.1099999999997,"end":2287.1099999999997,"text":"第二國際原住民族傳統競技文化交流族語的節目"},{"start":2287.1099999999997,"end":2290.1099999999997,"text":"就是世界原住民族傳統運動會"},{"start":2291.93,"end":2296.6099999999997,"text":"在114年12月辦理2025年世界原住民族傳統運動會"},{"start":2297.62,"end":2300.62,"text":"邀請來自10個國家28支代表隊"},{"start":2300.62,"end":2303.62,"text":"約1100名選手參與"},{"start":2304.08,"end":2307.7599999999998,"text":"進賽項目包含了射箭傳統、越武等10項競技"},{"start":2308.82,"end":2311.5,"text":"執行的經費大概在8500萬"},{"start":2312.8599999999997,"end":2314.8599999999997,"text":"除完成賽事接待與競技外"},{"start":2314.8599999999997,"end":2319.8599999999997,"text":"重點在於透過原住民族電視台進行轉播與數位傳播"},{"start":2319.8599999999997,"end":2323.8599999999997,"text":"將國際交流成果轉化為豐富的族語文化教材"},{"start":2323.8599999999997,"end":2326.8599999999997,"text":"衍生活動的保存效益"},{"start":2326.99,"end":2328.6699999999996,"text":"第三個部分"},{"start":2329.47,"end":2331.1499999999996,"text":"第四個部分"},{"start":2345.5099999999998,"end":2348.5099999999998,"text":"截至今年6月底規劃的37座廣播站中"},{"start":2348.5099999999998,"end":2351.5099999999998,"text":"已經完成了32座併取的執照"},{"start":2351.5099999999998,"end":2354.5099999999998,"text":"目前電波的涵蓋率已達到82%"},{"start":2354.5099999999998,"end":2357.5099999999998,"text":"原住民族人口的涵蓋率達到78%"},{"start":2357.5099999999998,"end":2362.5099999999998,"text":"有效強化了原鄉的公共資訊與防災傳遞的能力"},{"start":2364.1099999999997,"end":2369.1099999999997,"text":"剩餘的5座站點因為涉及地形地質、土地使用等複雜因素"},{"start":2369.1099999999997,"end":2370.1099999999997,"text":"進度稍有延宕"},{"start":2370.1099999999997,"end":2376.1099999999997,"text":"本會以督導研究委員會針對個案檢討工法或重新辦理採購"},{"start":2376.1099999999997,"end":2380.1099999999997,"text":"確保公共資源能妥善運用並如期結案"},{"start":2381.79,"end":2384.79,"text":"中和以上報告本會將持續監督研文會"},{"start":2384.79,"end":2387.79,"text":"確保各項計畫經費透明進度落實"},{"start":2387.79,"end":2390.79,"text":"對於涉及跨部會或高難度的工程案件"},{"start":2390.79,"end":2393.79,"text":"我們將加強風險管控與履約讀導"},{"start":2395.49,"end":2399.1699999999996,"text":"務求達成原住民族文化傳承以媒體服務的最高效益"},{"start":2400.81,"end":2404.81,"text":"另外接著針對原住民身份法以及原住民族基本法"},{"start":2404.81,"end":2406.81,"text":"部分條文修正草案報告"},{"start":2407.42,"end":2409.1,"text":"有關"},{"start":2409.6699999999996,"end":2412.6699999999996,"text":"委員所提的原住民身份法草案第一案至第六案"},{"start":2412.6699999999996,"end":2417.6699999999996,"text":"及委員所提的原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案第一案至十二案"},{"start":2419.54,"end":2422.54,"text":"本會之前在114年11月26日"},{"start":2422.54,"end":2425.54,"text":"第11屆第4會起第13次全體委員會議"},{"start":2425.54,"end":2429.54,"text":"及114年5月22日第11屆第三會起"},{"start":2429.54,"end":2432.54,"text":"第21次全體委員會議"},{"start":2432.54,"end":2434.54,"text":"提報一見再案"},{"start":2434.54,"end":2436.54,"text":"以下僅分別就委員所提的"},{"start":2436.54,"end":2439.54,"text":"原住民身份法第7案至第11案"},{"start":2439.54,"end":2442.54,"text":"以及原住民族基本法第13案到第15案"},{"start":2442.54,"end":2444.54,"text":"及各項修正草案"},{"start":2444.54,"end":2446.54,"text":"說明如下"},{"start":2447.3799999999997,"end":2448.3799999999997,"text":"原住民身份法的部分"},{"start":2448.3799999999997,"end":2453.3799999999997,"text":"原住民認定應兼顧血統民族認同及歷史脈絡"},{"start":2453.3799999999997,"end":2456.3799999999997,"text":"原住民身份法有關身份認定及相關權益"},{"start":2458.12,"end":2460.12,"text":"修法應兼顧立法的目的"},{"start":2460.12,"end":2462.12,"text":"制度的安定以及族人的權益"},{"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"但是你應該後來也去過了吧"},{"start":2680.08,"end":2682.08,"text":"三月到現在有沒有機會去到過"},{"start":2682.08,"end":2684.08,"text":"沒有的話可以來一下"},{"start":2684.08,"end":2686.08,"text":"應該是那個股仲應該有去過"},{"start":2686.08,"end":2688.08,"text":"股仲去過"},{"start":2688.08,"end":2690.08,"text":"好沒問題我想"},{"start":2690.08,"end":2692.08,"text":"人民會業務是一體的所以您應該也清楚"},{"start":2692.08,"end":2694.08,"text":"那這位瑞芳文件展"},{"start":2694.08,"end":2696.08,"text":"通常服務的長者大概有多少人"},{"start":2696.08,"end":2698.08,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":2698.07,"end":2700.07,"text":"大概15到20"},{"start":2700.07,"end":2702.07,"text":"那怎麼去服務的範圍是哪邊"},{"start":2704.86,"end":2706.86,"text":"其實就是我們周圍"},{"start":2706.86,"end":2708.86,"text":"瑞芳嘛但是"},{"start":2708.86,"end":2710.86,"text":"以周圍部落為主啦"},{"start":2710.86,"end":2712.86,"text":"對周圍部落可是"},{"start":2712.86,"end":2714.86,"text":"調查相關原住民的部長"},{"start":2714.86,"end":2716.86,"text":"可是副主委我們這樣在進行對話"},{"start":2716.86,"end":2718.86,"text":"你知道我知道可是其他人可能不一定知道"},{"start":2718.86,"end":2720.86,"text":"我們現在在講瑞芳這邊所謂的部落的時候"},{"start":2720.86,"end":2722.86,"text":"其實新北市的部落"},{"start":2722.86,"end":2724.86,"text":"是屬於非常散居的狀況"},{"start":2724.86,"end":2726.86,"text":"他一個就是"},{"start":2726.86,"end":2728.86,"text":"跨樂山阿美家園劍基"},{"start":2728.86,"end":2730.86,"text":"黃金大鎮其實都小小的"},{"start":2730.86,"end":2732.86,"text":"小小的小小的"},{"start":2732.86,"end":2734.86,"text":"對所以跟我們如果在東部"},{"start":2734.86,"end":2736.86,"text":"在談一個部落"},{"start":2736.86,"end":2738.86,"text":"好甚至不要講那麼遠在我們在講"},{"start":2738.86,"end":2740.86,"text":"烏來一個部落的話其實"},{"start":2740.86,"end":2742.86,"text":"那個規模大小是完全"},{"start":2742.86,"end":2744.86,"text":"不一樣的所以我們現在這個所謂"},{"start":2744.86,"end":2746.86,"text":"瑞芳文件展"},{"start":2746.86,"end":2748.86,"text":"他設置的位置是在"},{"start":2748.86,"end":2750.86,"text":"所謂的我們剛剛講的那四個"},{"start":2750.86,"end":2752.86,"text":"阿美家園啊黃金大鎮等等"},{"start":2752.86,"end":2754.86,"text":"部落裡面嗎"},{"start":2754.87,"end":2756.87,"text":"不是吧其實不是"},{"start":2756.87,"end":2758.87,"text":"不是不是"},{"start":2758.87,"end":2760.87,"text":"所以簡單講就是我們"},{"start":2760.87,"end":2762.87,"text":"其實在新北市現在的"},{"start":2762.87,"end":2764.87,"text":"文件展裡面文字名的文件展裡面"},{"start":2764.87,"end":2766.87,"text":"他很有可能的狀況是"},{"start":2766.87,"end":2768.87,"text":"他找一個適當的地點設置之後"},{"start":2768.87,"end":2770.87,"text":"他是服務周邊"},{"start":2770.87,"end":2772.87,"text":"的原民而且就是散居"},{"start":2772.87,"end":2774.87,"text":"的其他狀況即便你"},{"start":2774.87,"end":2776.87,"text":"他稱之他為一個聚落但其他"},{"start":2776.87,"end":2778.87,"text":"的人數也不同於我們了解的原民"},{"start":2778.87,"end":2780.87,"text":"傳統部落那麼大"},{"start":2780.87,"end":2782.87,"text":"好所以大家就來"},{"start":2782.87,"end":2784.87,"text":"文件展絕對不是在部落"},{"start":2784.87,"end":2786.87,"text":"裡面用步行行走就可以"},{"start":2786.87,"end":2788.87,"text":"走到文件展完全不是吧"},{"start":2788.87,"end":2790.87,"text":"這是要有個交通的問題"},{"start":2790.87,"end":2792.87,"text":"所以現在瑞芳"},{"start":2792.87,"end":2794.87,"text":"這裡的話那他的問題會是什麼"},{"start":2794.87,"end":2796.87,"text":"大家想像一下嘛我從"},{"start":2796.87,"end":2798.87,"text":"我居住的地方要到文件展其實"},{"start":2798.87,"end":2800.87,"text":"要嘛這個我就是要"},{"start":2800.87,"end":2802.87,"text":"坐公車甚至還要轉乘"},{"start":2802.87,"end":2804.87,"text":"要嘛就是這個要有"},{"start":2804.87,"end":2806.87,"text":"志工來載我"},{"start":2806.87,"end":2808.87,"text":"因為我一定要移動啊我要有車輛"},{"start":2808.87,"end":2810.87,"text":"才能移動好那我精神狀態"},{"start":2810.87,"end":2812.87,"text":"身體狀態最好的狀況是什麼我騎腳踏車"},{"start":2812.87,"end":2814.87,"text":"騎腳踏車"},{"start":2814.87,"end":2816.87,"text":"自己過去這個文件展"},{"start":2816.87,"end":2818.87,"text":"好那我們這個瑞芳"},{"start":2818.87,"end":2820.87,"text":"文件展在哪邊在瑞濱公路旁邊"},{"start":2820.87,"end":2822.87,"text":"在海邊啊剛剛不是"},{"start":2822.87,"end":2824.87,"text":"也說了嗎所以我們是騎著"},{"start":2824.87,"end":2826.87,"text":"腳踏車的長者"},{"start":2826.87,"end":2828.87,"text":"要穿過瑞濱公路這麼多"},{"start":2828.87,"end":2830.87,"text":"大型車輛經過的地方"},{"start":2830.87,"end":2832.87,"text":"之後才能到達文件展"},{"start":2832.87,"end":2834.87,"text":"主委"},{"start":2834.02,"end":2836.02,"text":"副主委"},{"start":2835.08,"end":2837.08,"text":"你不覺得這個其實很辛苦"},{"start":2837.08,"end":2839.08,"text":"又不安全嗎"},{"start":2839.08,"end":2841.08,"text":"對委員講這個沒有錯啊因為這個"},{"start":2841.08,"end":2843.08,"text":"瑞芳不是我們原住民地區"},{"start":2843.08,"end":2845.08,"text":"是啊所以他不是像我們"},{"start":2845.08,"end":2847.08,"text":"在元鄉的部落那麼集中"},{"start":2847.08,"end":2849.08,"text":"所以他的交通事實上是比較閃的"},{"start":2849.08,"end":2851.08,"text":"那我們事實上找地點也有"},{"start":2851.08,"end":2853.08,"text":"很大的困難好沒關係我今天不是在"},{"start":2853.08,"end":2855.08,"text":"討論這個交通的部分我知道"},{"start":2855.08,"end":2857.08,"text":"在元鄉其實很多時候是造福遠"},{"start":2857.08,"end":2859.08,"text":"他直接去接送有一些"},{"start":2859.08,"end":2861.08,"text":"更不方便的長者"},{"start":2861.08,"end":2863.08,"text":"但你針對這個都遠的部分我們"},{"start":2863.08,"end":2865.08,"text":"會來檢討看看是用什麼方式"},{"start":2865.08,"end":2867.08,"text":"來解決他們的交通問題"},{"start":2867.08,"end":2869.08,"text":"因為這個應該不是只有瑞芳"},{"start":2869.08,"end":2871.08,"text":"應該是我今天就是跟你用"},{"start":2871.08,"end":2873.08,"text":"這個例子來講因為事實上"},{"start":2873.08,"end"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:3072.64,"text":"電費就剩40萬"},{"start":3072.64,"end":3074.64,"text":"這樣的狀況那我能夠剩多少"},{"start":3074.64,"end":3076.64,"text":"所以你現在說好"},{"start":3076.64,"end":3078.64,"text":"給我們調高到100萬"},{"start":3078.64,"end":3080.64,"text":"這樣聽起來好像增加很多"},{"start":3080.64,"end":3082.64,"text":"但我也想知道以我樹林的級距"},{"start":3082.64,"end":3084.64,"text":"來說的話60其實是落在哪一個"},{"start":3084.64,"end":3086.64,"text":"級距增加多少"},{"start":3086.64,"end":3088.64,"text":"這個到時候我們要看這個級距的資料表"},{"start":3088.64,"end":3090.64,"text":"然後有辦法回答我們同不同意"},{"start":3090.64,"end":3092.64,"text":"滿不滿意這樣的調整"},{"start":3092.64,"end":3094.64,"text":"所以今天在這裡的話特別跟您就教的"},{"start":3094.64,"end":3096.64,"text":"其實就是請考慮"},{"start":3096.64,"end":3098.64,"text":"像我們新北市"},{"start":3098.64,"end":3100.64,"text":"這樣散居的地區"},{"start":3100.64,"end":3102.64,"text":"原住民人口有非常多"},{"start":3102.64,"end":3104.64,"text":"但他是散居所以他不是原住民專區"},{"start":3104.64,"end":3106.64,"text":"我們在補助人件站的時候"},{"start":3106.64,"end":3108.64,"text":"我們應該要有相對應"},{"start":3108.64,"end":3110.64,"text":"相對應的方式來做調整"},{"start":3110.64,"end":3112.64,"text":"你要增加項目也好"},{"start":3112.64,"end":3114.64,"text":"你要增加額度也好"},{"start":3114.64,"end":3116.64,"text":"但不管哪一種"},{"start":3116.64,"end":3118.64,"text":"我們都看到對我們來講"},{"start":3118.64,"end":3120.64,"text":"我們需要的部分"},{"start":3120.64,"end":3122.64,"text":"第一是交通第二是我們的人口數"},{"start":3122.64,"end":3124.64,"text":"其實相對應是多的"},{"start":3125.82,"end":3127.82,"text":"這兩個部分主任你什麼時候可以提出"},{"start":3127.82,"end":3129.82,"text":"副主任什麼時候可以提出來"},{"start":3130.33,"end":3132.33,"text":"我們一個禮拜給委員提出資料"},{"start":3132.33,"end":3134.33,"text":"不是給資料還有你相對應的建議改進方式"},{"start":3136.44,"end":3138.44,"text":"現有的資料你應該下午就可以傳給我"},{"start":3138.44,"end":3140.44,"text":"不需要一個禮拜"},{"start":3140.44,"end":3142.44,"text":"你一個禮拜我可以同意"},{"start":3142.44,"end":3144.44,"text":"但是是你建議的方案"},{"start":3144.44,"end":3146.44,"text":"怎麼樣的改進怎麼樣去進進這件事情"},{"start":3146.44,"end":3148.44,"text":"對建議改進的方式"},{"start":3148.44,"end":3150.44,"text":"在原住民地區向委員所提點的這些問題"},{"start":3150.44,"end":3152.44,"text":"我們一併來整理"},{"start":3152.44,"end":3154.44,"text":"如何的解決"},{"start":3154.44,"end":3156.44,"text":"一個禮拜之內提出改進的方案"},{"start":3156.44,"end":3158.44,"text":"我們來討論"},{"start":3158.44,"end":3160.44,"text":"謝謝副主委"},{"start":3160.44,"end":3162.44,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":3166.84,"end":3168.84,"text":"我們下一位請徐中信委員發言直銜"},{"start":3176.02,"end":3180.02,"text":"主席各位同仁我們邀請原委會曾主委"},{"start":3184.82,"end":3186.82,"text":"好"},{"start":3186.86,"end":3188.86,"text":"副主委好"},{"start":3190.15,"end":3192.15,"text":"主委好"},{"start":3191.85,"end":3193.85,"text":"我今天有幾個問題要來請教您"},{"start":3193.85,"end":3195.85,"text":"不過我的主軸是這樣"},{"start":3196.68,"end":3198.68,"text":"我如果有用翻字"},{"start":3198.4,"end":3200.4,"text":"這沒有不進"},{"start":3200.14,"end":3202.14,"text":"我們"},{"start":3201.78,"end":3203.78,"text":"到"},{"start":3203.18,"end":3205.18,"text":"國民政府來以後"},{"start":3205.81,"end":3207.81,"text":"左正"},{"start":3207.48,"end":3209.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3209.48,"end":3211.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3211.48,"end":3213.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3213.48,"end":3215.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3215.48,"end":3217.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3217.48,"end":3219.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3219.48,"end":3221.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3221.48,"end":3223.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3223.48,"end":3225.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3225.48,"end":3227.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3227.48,"end":3229.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3229.48,"end":3231.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3231.48,"end":3233.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3233.48,"end":3235.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":3215.44,"end":3217.44,"text":"我今天是要來跟你認清"},{"start":3217.44,"end":3219.44,"text":"跟你認清"},{"start":3219.09,"end":3221.09,"text":"第一個問題跟您請教"},{"start":3221.16,"end":3225.16,"text":"我們希拉亞族原住民身份在行政院現在"},{"start":3225.69,"end":3227.69,"text":"的進度如何"},{"start":3227.69,"end":3229.69,"text":"跟我們報告今天早上就是希拉亞族"},{"start":3229.69,"end":3231.69,"text":"這名的記者會"},{"start":3231.69,"end":3233.69,"text":"今天那個院長會公布"},{"start":3233.69,"end":3235.69,"text":"那接下來在"},{"start":3235.69,"end":3237.69,"text":"8月中旬以後我們會開始做身份的登記"},{"start":3237.69,"end":3239.69,"text":"太好了"},{"start":3239.69,"end":3241.69,"text":"希拉亞原則上是已經完成了這個"},{"start":3241.69,"end":3243.69,"text":"階段性的一個"},{"start":3243.69,"end":3245.69,"text":"工作後續當然登記還有"},{"start":3245.69,"end":3247.69,"text":"他的過程"},{"start":3247.69,"end":3249.69,"text":"已經有做充分的準備"},{"start":3249.69,"end":3251.69,"text":"太好了因為喔剛好這幾天"},{"start":3251.69,"end":3253.69,"text":"新化國小"},{"start":3253.41,"end":3255.41,"text":"再核定獎學金"},{"start":3255.07,"end":3257.07,"text":"如果有原民身份的"},{"start":3257.78,"end":3259.78,"text":"他們就可以申請獎學金"},{"start":3259.78,"end":3261.78,"text":"所以這個是遲來的正義"},{"start":3261.78,"end":3263.78,"text":"非常的好"},{"start":3263.78,"end":3265.78,"text":"第二個問題"},{"start":3265.33,"end":3267.33,"text":"這個主委您主席看喔"},{"start":3268.21,"end":3270.21,"text":"希拉亞族在台南五大社"},{"start":3271.55,"end":3273.55,"text":"消亡"},{"start":3272.85,"end":3274.85,"text":"目前"},{"start":3275.23,"end":3277.23,"text":"新港麻豆大木匠"},{"start":3277.23,"end":3279.2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馬屁去 路線那"},{"start":3508.28,"end":3510.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3510.28,"end":3512.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3512.28,"end":3514.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3514.28,"end":3516.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3516.28,"end":3518.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3518.28,"end":3520.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3520.28,"end":3522.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3522.28,"end":3524.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3524.28,"end":3526.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3526.28,"end":3528.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3528.28,"end":3530.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3530.28,"end":3532.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3532.28,"end":3534.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3534.28,"end":3536.28,"text":"阿滴阿哥"},{"start":3516.46,"end":3518.46,"text":"祝賀今時"},{"start":3518,"end":3520,"text":"因為那時的財產去外界生來"},{"start":3520,"end":3522,"text":"這道理就是這樣來"},{"start":3522.21,"end":3524.21,"text":"喔"},{"start":3523.48,"end":3525.48,"text":"阿所以說我在這兒給主委這樣報告"},{"start":3527.55,"end":3529.55,"text":"我們要去看這個希拉亞竹根"},{"start":3530.96,"end":3532.96,"text":"漢竹"},{"start":3532.32,"end":3534.32,"text":"美男人他的通婚的狀態"},{"start":3537.4,"end":3539.4,"text":"那麼我們仍然有"},{"start":3539.85,"end":3541.85,"text":"保留一些純的平埔竹"},{"start":3541.85,"end":3543.85,"text":"在台南"},{"start":3544.57,"end":3546.57,"text":"包括我們新化的新和社區"},{"start":3549.57,"end":3551.57,"text":"馬"},{"start":3550.45,"end":3552.45,"text":"我們剛才講的五個希拉亞竹"},{"start":3552.45,"end":3554.45,"text":"有一個社叫做麻豆社"},{"start":3555.75,"end":3557.75,"text":"麻豆"},{"start":3558.01,"end":3559.01,"text":"請問"},{"start":3559.01,"end":3561.01,"text":"主委麻豆"},{"start":3561.23,"end":3563.23,"text":"麻豆"},{"start":3562.82,"end":3564.82,"text":"他是什麼意思"},{"start":3564.49,"end":3565.49,"text":"麻豆"},{"start":3565.57,"end":3566.57,"text":"麻豆"},{"start":3566.7,"end":3567.7,"text":"麻豆"},{"start":3567.71,"end":3568.71,"text":"麻豆"},{"start":3568.71,"end":3569.71,"text":"眼睛"},{"start":3569.71,"end":3570.71,"text":"沒錯"},{"start":3570.71,"end":3574.71,"text":"現在南島語籍的國家都還是用麻豆做眼睛"},{"start":3575.49,"end":3576.49,"text":"阿哥我們麻豆"},{"start":3577.26,"end":3578.26,"text":"眼睛是一樣的"},{"start":3579.03,"end":3581.03,"text":"所以表示你看我們"},{"start":3581.85,"end":3582.85,"text":"希拉亞竹"},{"start":3583.49,"end":3584.49,"text":"那麼難道"},{"start":3585.07,"end":3586.07,"text":"語竹"},{"start":3586.31,"end":3587.31,"text":"其實是同源"},{"start":3588.38,"end":3589.38,"text":"其實是同源"},{"start":3590.17,"end":3591.17,"text":"所以"},{"start":3591.62,"end":3595.62,"text":"我們可以看到台灣跟南島語族的國家之間"},{"start":3596.46,"end":3598.46,"text":"有非常親密的關係"},{"start":3599.38,"end":3600.38,"text":"但是也不火刃"},{"start":3601.59,"end":3603.59,"text":"他跟日本也有關係"},{"start":3604.01,"end":3605.01,"text":"我們在荷蘭"},{"start":3605.01,"end":3607.01,"text":"1624年來台灣以後"},{"start":3608.24,"end":3611.24,"text":"因為荷蘭人的待遇說明我們新港社"},{"start":3612.63,"end":3614.63,"text":"有一條船再很多"},{"start":3616.12,"end":3618.12,"text":"新港社人到江戶"},{"start":3619.08,"end":3621.08,"text":"去告東陽狀"},{"start":3621.08,"end":3622.08,"text":"不是告陽狀而已"},{"start":3622.08,"end":3623.08,"text":"他是告東陽狀"},{"start":3624.06,"end":3625.06,"text":"而江戶幕府"},{"start":3626.52,"end":3628.52,"text":"自由得寸"},{"start":3629.49,"end":3631.49,"text":"將軍親自來接待"},{"start":3633.49,"end":3635.49,"text":"副主委您知道為什麼要這麼多人"},{"start":3637.18,"end":3639.18,"text":"去跟幕府報告"},{"start":3640.07,"end":3642.07,"text":"要去告東陽狀一個人就可以告"},{"start":3642.07,"end":3644.07,"text":"為什麼要這麼多人去"},{"start":3644.07,"end":3645.07,"text":"去江戶不用錢喔"},{"start":3645.74,"end":3647.74,"text":"去那邊吃住不用錢"},{"start":3648.63,"end":3650.63,"text":"為什麼要那麼多人去"},{"start":3651.29,"end":3653.29,"text":"那表示說新港社有共識"},{"start":3653.29,"end":3655.29,"text":"我們各地的"},{"start":3655.29,"end":3657.29,"text":"首領我們都同意都來了"},{"start":3657.92,"end":3659.92,"text":"所以"},{"start":3658.87,"end":3660.87,"text":"幕府"},{"start":3660.05,"end":3662.05,"text":"你出兵攻打荷蘭人"},{"start":3662.36,"end":3664.36,"text":"荷蘭人對我們不好啊"},{"start":3664.07,"end":3666.07,"text":"我們社有共識啊"},{"start":3666.07,"end":3668.07,"text":"這麼多人都來了"},{"start":3667.49,"end":3669.49,"text":"這是我的解讀"},{"start":3669.09,"end":3671.09,"text":"所以我們可以看到新港社"},{"start":3671.14,"end":3673.14,"text":"跟日本的關係是這麼密切"},{"start":3674.51,"end":3676.51,"text":"所以荷蘭人的文獻記載"},{"start":3677.33,"end":3679.33,"text":"荷蘭人來的時候"},{"start":3679.22,"end":3681.22,"text":"已經有"},{"start":3680.47,"end":3682.47,"text":"日本人160人的移民區"},{"start":3684.15,"end":3686.15,"text":"而且有領袖"},{"start":3686.29,"end":3688.29,"text":"而且有領袖"},{"start":3687.61,"end":3689.61,"text":"所以中國說台灣歷史上屬於中國"},{"start":3689.61,"end":3691.61,"text":"那是"},{"start":3691.37,"end":3693.37,"text":"Rubbish 亂講"},{"start":3693.23,"end":3695.23,"text":"他不是只有這樣亂講而已"},{"start":3695.72,"end":3697.72,"text":"各位看到第七點"},{"start":3697.72,"end":3699.72,"text":"他說八丹群島是他的領土"},{"start":3701.19,"end":3703.19,"text":"好了 現在要組權"},{"start":3703.69,"end":3705.69,"text":"他的根據為何"},{"start":3707.18,"end":3709.18,"text":"他主要是認為說在語言上面"},{"start":3709.18,"end":3711.18,"text":"跟文化跟藍語的答物組"},{"start":3711.18,"end":3713.18,"text":"有非常多的相似"},{"start":3713.18,"end":3715.18,"text":"甚至是同一個族群的"},{"start":3715.18,"end":3717.18,"text":"這樣的認知"},{"start":3717.18,"end":3719.18,"text":"這樣的認知沒辦法成立啊"},{"start":3719.18,"end":3721.18,"text":"因為"},{"start":3721.29,"end":3723.29,"text":"到1874年牡丹社事件"},{"start":3724.46,"end":3726.46,"text":"日本人要出兵的時候"},{"start":3726.71,"end":3728.71,"text":"中國清朝還跟他講說"},{"start":3728.71,"end":3730.71,"text":"枋寮以下"},{"start":3731.09,"end":3733.09,"text":"叫畫外之地 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屏東很多是畫外之地啊"},{"start":3764.07,"end":3766.07,"text":"那怎麼可以說"},{"start":3766.07,"end":3768.07,"text":"八丹群島是屬於中國"},{"start":3768.07,"end":3770.07,"text":"東部大概都是當時為認定在畫外之地"},{"start":3770.07,"end":3772.07,"text":"是啊"},{"start":3772.07,"end":3774.07,"text":"只有少數幾個地方在台東花蓮那幾個平地"},{"start":3775.41,"end":3777.41,"text":"那我們可以看到八丹群島"},{"start":3777.41,"end":3779.41,"text":"跟藍語之間的"},{"start":3779.41,"end":3781.41,"text":"航行中斷"},{"start":3781.41,"end":3783.41,"text":"剛才您報告航行300多年"},{"start":3783.41,"end":3785.41,"text":"中斷嘛"},{"start":3785.16,"end":3787.16,"text":"中斷的原因"},{"start":3787.19,"end":3789.19,"text":"為何啊 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代一座"},{"start":4164.95,"end":4166.95,"text":"有炸豆仔還是炸什麼的時候"},{"start":4166.95,"end":4168.95,"text":"要喔"},{"start":4169.34,"end":4171.34,"text":"現在來演請"},{"start":4171.34,"end":4173.34,"text":"給我"},{"start":4172.68,"end":4174.68,"text":"謝了 元"},{"start":4174.25,"end":4176.25,"text":"也更知道說"},{"start":4176.25,"end":4178.25,"text":"他的藝術 他的道德 他的配備"},{"start":4178.25,"end":4180.25,"text":"是他本身就有了"},{"start":4180.25,"end":4182.25,"text":"不是"},{"start":4182.25,"end":4184.25,"text":"帶進來換價"},{"start":4185.18,"end":4187.18,"text":"福祉會 你知道嗎"},{"start":4187.18,"end":4189.18,"text":"那個配刀其實對原住民來講"},{"start":4189.18,"end":4191.18,"text":"他是生活上所必須用的工具"},{"start":4191.18,"end":4193.18,"text":"那事實上在這個槍砲管制條例"},{"start":4193.18,"end":4195.18,"text":"那個我們原住民的這個"},{"start":4195.18,"end":4197.18,"text":"這個配刀他並不是管制的這個"},{"start":4197.18,"end":4199.18,"text":"這個種類"},{"start":4199.18,"end":4201.18,"text":"不是管制"},{"start":4201.18,"end":4203.18,"text":"但是在警察來說"},{"start":4203.18,"end":4205.18,"text":"他會覺得說這個炸豆仔"},{"start":4205.18,"end":4207.18,"text":"來外送就是不對"},{"start":4207.18,"end":4209.18,"text":"還會費用"},{"start":4209.18,"end":4211.18,"text":"他不知道我們幾個族"},{"start":4211.32,"end":4215.32,"text":"都會配備這支刀的存在"},{"start":4215.32,"end":4217.32,"text":"所以福祉會本身"},{"start":4217.32,"end":4219.32,"text":"自己探討就是說"},{"start":4219.32,"end":4221.32,"text":"未來不是說"},{"start":4221.32,"end":4223.32,"text":"我們來檢查"},{"start":4223.32,"end":4225.32,"text":"跟我們說我們這個身分"},{"start":4225.32,"end":4227.32,"text":"要炸豆仔的配備"},{"start":4227.74,"end":4229.74,"text":"你愛上去"},{"start":4229.74,"end":4231.74,"text":"大公娘 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那我等一下如果來得及"},{"start":4561.89,"end":4563.89,"text":"我也希望可以到現場給大家祝福"},{"start":4563.89,"end":4565.89,"text":"那我必須要說這個憲法法庭"},{"start":4565.89,"end":4567.89,"text":"在2002年判決之後"},{"start":4567.89,"end":4569.89,"text":"那立法到了前十天"},{"start":4569.89,"end":4571.89,"text":"終於立好了"},{"start":4571.89,"end":4573.89,"text":"那希拉亞族這個公告"},{"start":4573.89,"end":4575.89,"text":"3月8號期滿"},{"start":4575.89,"end":4577.89,"text":"那原民會本來是承諾說"},{"start":4577.89,"end":4579.89,"text":"兩個月可以抱怨"},{"start":4579.89,"end":4581.89,"text":"但是還是拖到了今天"},{"start":4581.89,"end":4583.89,"text":"有一點拖到 但是"},{"start":4583.89,"end":4585.89,"text":"還是終於走到了今天"},{"start":4585.89,"end":4587.89,"text":"那我第一個要問的就是"},{"start":4587.89,"end":4589.89,"text":"那什麼時候"},{"start":4589.89,"end":4591.89,"text":"這些族人可以去到護政事務所來登記"},{"start":4591.89,"end":4593.89,"text":"取得他們的身份"},{"start":4593.89,"end":4597.89,"text":"我們原則上目前我們的計畫規劃"},{"start":4597.89,"end":4599.89,"text":"是在8月13號以後就可以"},{"start":4599.89,"end":4601.89,"text":"8月13號以後 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其他像我們"},{"start":4631.89,"end":4633.89,"text":"高雄還有大武龍族"},{"start":4633.89,"end":4635.89,"text":"那就在我們的甲仙山林"},{"start":4635.89,"end":4637.89,"text":"我不知道說其他的八族目前的進度"},{"start":4637.89,"end":4639.89,"text":"走到什麼階段"},{"start":4641.11,"end":4643.11,"text":"跟委員報告 現在的"},{"start":4643.11,"end":4645.11,"text":"相關申請像道卡斯"},{"start":4645.11,"end":4647.11,"text":"他是"},{"start":4647.11,"end":4649.11,"text":"民族認定的申請"},{"start":4649.11,"end":4651.11,"text":"他目前是已經在我們要開"},{"start":4651.11,"end":4653.11,"text":"那個審議委員會了"},{"start":4653.11,"end":4655.11,"text":"那像大武龍好像"},{"start":4655.11,"end":4657.11,"text":"目前是已經"},{"start":4657.14,"end":4659.14,"text":"也提出申請了"},{"start":4659.14,"end":4661.14,"text":"我們目前都還要進入"},{"start":4661.14,"end":4663.14,"text":"後續的一些調查"},{"start":4663.14,"end":4665.14,"text":"還有他們要提出他們相關的一些"},{"start":4665.14,"end":4667.14,"text":"草案 就是身份認定的"},{"start":4667.14,"end":4669.14,"text":"草案要來跟我們審議"},{"start":4669.14,"end":4671.14,"text":"另外有一些族群已經申請了"},{"start":4671.14,"end":4673.14,"text":"這些要就名的"},{"start":4673.14,"end":4675.14,"text":"我們都會做"},{"start":4675.14,"end":4677.14,"text":"我們都會 我們都會"},{"start":4677.14,"end":4679.14,"text":"像我們高雄的大武龍族"},{"start":4679.14,"end":4681.14,"text":"不知道說你們現在審議的進度到哪裡"},{"start":4681.14,"end":4683.14,"text":"其實都已經申請了"},{"start":4683.77,"end":4685.77,"text":"認定申請他申請了"},{"start":4685.77,"end":4687.77,"text":"那我們的委員的要件公告"},{"start":4687.77,"end":4689.77,"text":"目前他們在進行大武龍的部分"},{"start":4690.49,"end":4692.49,"text":"對啊 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那可不可以"},{"start":4713.17,"end":4715.17,"text":"你說的半年內就來完成"},{"start":4715.17,"end":4717.17,"text":"這個也要他們要配合喔"},{"start":4717.17,"end":4719.17,"text":"不是說我們"},{"start":4719.17,"end":4721.17,"text":"因為這個族群的認定跟申請"},{"start":4721.17,"end":4723.17,"text":"是他們自己這個族群的團體"},{"start":4723.17,"end":4725.17,"text":"他們要做一些相關的準備"},{"start":4725.17,"end":4727.17,"text":"交到我們這邊來我們就可以做審查"},{"start":4727.17,"end":4729.17,"text":"可以盡量的協助族人"},{"start":4729.17,"end":4731.17,"text":"那這樣就能夠快的拿到這樣子的審議的結果"},{"start":4731.17,"end":4733.17,"text":"好 再來第三件事情"},{"start":4733.17,"end":4735.17,"text":"要問的是"},{"start":4735.17,"end":4737.17,"text":"因為接下來最直接的就是"},{"start":4737.17,"end":4739.17,"text":"他們的政治參與"},{"start":4739.17,"end":4741.17,"text":"還有衛生醫療的相關等等的權利"},{"start":4741.17,"end":4743.17,"text":"那所以我在這邊"},{"start":4743.17,"end":4745.17,"text":"想問的是相關的權利的盤點"},{"start":4745.17,"end":4747.17,"text":"還有法律"},{"start":4747.17,"end":4749.17,"text":"你們有沒有進行了"},{"start":4749.2,"end":4751.2,"text":"包括說選舉權"},{"start":4751.2,"end":4753.2,"text":"還是說他們接下來的升學"},{"start":4753.2,"end":4755.2,"text":"工作權的保障"},{"start":4755.2,"end":4757.2,"text":"健保的補助 長照的補助"},{"start":4757.2,"end":4759.2,"text":"等等相關的權利"},{"start":4759.2,"end":4761.2,"text":"你們盤點過了嗎"},{"start":4761.2,"end":4763.2,"text":"跟委員報告這個在"},{"start":4763.2,"end":4765.2,"text":"今年的5月19號"},{"start":4765.2,"end":4767.2,"text":"我們有召開了跨部會的這個會議"},{"start":4767.2,"end":4769.2,"text":"就是針對這個"},{"start":4769.2,"end":4771.2,"text":"平埔族群他們的未來在三年內"},{"start":4771.2,"end":4773.2,"text":"要制定的相關法律的權益的部分"},{"start":4773.2,"end":4775.2,"text":"來做盤點"},{"start":4775.2,"end":4777.2,"text":"那我們已經盤點出來有118種"},{"start":4777.2,"end":4779.2,"text":"法規命令需要做調整"},{"start":4779.2,"end":4781.2,"text":"那也發文請他們在"},{"start":4781.2,"end":4783.2,"text":"9月30號以前"},{"start":4783.2,"end":4785.2,"text":"把他們所盤整出來需要調整的"},{"start":4785.2,"end":4787.2,"text":"那個文字內容"},{"start":4787.2,"end":4789.2,"text":"報到我們會裡面 我們再來看"},{"start":4789.2,"end":4791.2,"text":"是法規命令 是行政規則 是法律面的"},{"start":4791.2,"end":4793.2,"text":"應該怎麼處理 那時候會"},{"start":4793.2,"end":4795.2,"text":"再進一步的做一個"},{"start":4795.2,"end":4797.2,"text":"的處理"},{"start":4797.2,"end":4799.2,"text":"所以是9月30號"},{"start":4799.2,"end":4801.2,"text":"9月30號請他們回報 把他們所盤點所有的"},{"start":4801.2,"end":4803.2,"text":"需要修正的是哪一些"},{"start":4803.2,"end":4805.2,"text":"他的內容會是什麼 我們再來"},{"start":4805.2,"end":4807.2,"text":"做整理說是法律的"},{"start":4807.2,"end":4809.2,"text":"違結是法規命令的"},{"start":4809.2,"end":4811.2,"text":"是行政規則的 應該怎麼處理"},{"start":4811.2,"end":4813.2,"text":"我們那時候後續就會進一步的進度"},{"start":4813.2,"end":4815.2,"text":"好 這個就是希望你們接下來"},{"start":4815.2,"end":4817.2,"text":"像我剛剛說的這一些相關的法律"},{"start":4817.2,"end":4819.2,"text":"都必須要進行完整的"},{"start":4819.2,"end":4821.2,"text":"盤點 那給他們應有的"},{"start":4821.2,"end":4823.2,"text":"權利 好 那最後一個"},{"start":4823.2,"end":4825.2,"text":"我是想要提醒"},{"start":4825.2,"end":4827.2,"text":"這個護政端的配套"},{"start":4827.2,"end":4829.2,"text":"因為其實1月的時候我有提一個"},{"start":4829.2,"end":4831.2,"text":"這個泰雅族人的"},{"start":4831.2,"end":4833.2,"text":"例子就是他想要幫他的新生兒"},{"start":4833.2,"end":4835.2,"text":"登記族名 結果護政人員說他的族名不在"},{"start":4835.2,"end":4837.2,"text":"他的人民譜上"},{"start":4837.2,"end":4839.2,"text":"那就有點稍微刁難了"},{"start":4839.2,"end":4841.2,"text":"一下 那變成說他去登記"},{"start":4841.2,"end":4843.2,"text":"沒有很順利"},{"start":4843.2,"end":4845.2,"text":"那我想要講的就是這一些"},{"start":4845.2,"end":4847.2,"text":"人民譜本來就是參考的工具"},{"start":4847.2,"end":4849.2,"text":"不是他審核的依據"},{"start":4849.2,"end":4851.2,"text":"那所以我想問的是"},{"start":4851.2,"end":4853.2,"text":"接下來的這一些平埔族"},{"start":4853.2,"end":4855.2,"text":"的族人他們去到"},{"start":4855.2,"end":4857.2,"text":"護政事務所 那可能也會遇到"},{"start":4857.2,"end":4859.2,"text":"相關的問題 更何況他們沒有"},{"start":4859.2,"end":4861.2,"text":"這些相 他們相關的依據"},{"start":4861.2,"end":4863.2,"text":"是更少的 那護政端這邊"},{"start":4863.2,"end":4865.2,"text":"是不是你們應該要去溝通一下"},{"start":4865.2,"end":4867.2,"text":"我們在這個身份登記"},{"start":4867.2,"end":4869.2,"text":"的部分事實上召開過兩次的"},{"start":4869.2,"end":4871.2,"text":"會議 也是照"},{"start":4871.2,"end":4873.2,"text":"護政單位來討論 那相關的"},{"start":4873.2,"end":4875.2,"text":"登記的作業的要點啊或者是"},{"start":4875.2,"end":4877.2,"text":"有一些我們"},{"start":4877.2,"end":4879.2,"text":"認為說可能有問題的部分都有"},{"start":4879.2,"end":4881.2,"text":"做充分的溝通"},{"start":4881.2,"end":4883.2,"text":"所以才會跟委員說我們為什麼"},{"start":4883.2,"end":4885.2,"text":"會在8月13號才開始"},{"start":4885.2,"end":4887.2,"text":"登記 是因為我們要把這些"},{"start":4887.2,"end":4889.2,"text":"餘力先一次解決 要不然到時候來"},{"start":4889.2,"end":4891.2,"text":"申請 欸怎麼這個又少了"},{"start":4891.2,"end":4893.2,"text":"這個又不符合"},{"start":4893.2,"end":4895.2,"text":"對 因為我在這邊提醒一下"},{"start":4895.2,"end":4897.2,"text":"因為平埔原住民族群的"},{"start":4897.2,"end":4899.2,"text":"身份法20條裡面是寫到說"},{"start":4899.2,"end":4901.2,"text":"傳統的名字跟登記的民族別式"},{"start":4901.2,"end":4903.2,"text":"相關聯 可是這個相關聯"},{"start":4903.2,"end":4905.2,"text":"有一點籠統"},{"start":4905.2,"end":4907.2,"text":"所以我要在這邊提醒的就是"},{"start":4907.2,"end":4909.2,"text":"如果你們已經有確認"},{"start":4909.2,"end":4911.2,"text":"不要只是一個默契"},{"start":4911.2,"end":4913.2,"text":"而是要讓 要讓我們相關族人都要去"},{"start":4913.2,"end":4915.2,"text":"規範 沒錯 必須要"},{"start":4915.2,"end":4917.2,"text":"有一個非常詳盡的規範"},{"start":4917.2,"end":4919.2,"text":"不會說族人去到這個"},{"start":4919.2,"end":4921.2,"text":"護政事務所結果現場又跟他說"},{"start":4921.2,"end":4923.2,"text":"這個我們沒有在"},{"start":4923.2,"end":4925.2,"text":"我們相關的什麼審查的"},{"start":4925.2,"end":4927.2,"text":"基準之上 或者是說"},{"start":4927.2,"end":4929.2,"text":"沒有相關的參考 所以沒有辦法"},{"start":4929.2,"end":4931.2,"text":"登記 希望"},{"start":4931.2,"end":4933.2,"text":"絕對不可以遇到這樣的情況 好嗎"},{"start":4933.2,"end":4935.2,"text":"我們會努力"},{"start":4935.2,"end":4937.2,"text":"就到零缺點 好 這個要"},{"start":4937.2,"end":4939.2,"text":"拜託 好 最後一點時間"},{"start":4939.2,"end":4941.2,"text":"我要講一下這個監察院的糾正案"},{"start":4941.2,"end":4945.2,"text":"就是大學實驗原住民族土地的權利案"},{"start":4945.2,"end":4947.2,"text":"那去年8月有一個糾正案嘛"},{"start":4947.2,"end":4949.2,"text":"就是台大實驗林 台大的山地農場"},{"start":4949.2,"end":4951.2,"text":"中興的惠孫林場"},{"start":4951.2,"end":4953.2,"text":"還有平科大的達仁林場"},{"start":4953.2,"end":4955.2,"text":"那除了教育部之外"},{"start":4955.2,"end":4957.2,"text":"原民會其實也被糾正了"},{"start":4957.2,"end":4959.2,"text":"對吧"},{"start":4959.68,"end":4961.68,"text":"對 所以那你們知道你們被糾正的內容是什麼"},{"start":4964.47,"end":4966.47,"text":"沒錯"},{"start":4966.47,"end":4968.47,"text":"所以這個共管的部分你們現在有沒有"},{"start":4968.47,"end":4970.47,"text":"進行相關的改善"},{"start":4971.74,"end":4975.74,"text":"共管的部分事實上我們在去年就已經開始在研議"},{"start":4975.74,"end":4977.74,"text":"要會商各部會來研修這個共管辦法"},{"start":4977.74,"end":4979.74,"text":"然後共管辦法"},{"start":4979.74,"end":4981.74,"text":"是各部會大家要會先發布"},{"start":4981.74,"end":4983.74,"text":"所以當然原民會一定會提出來"},{"start":4983.74,"end":4985.74,"text":"我們需要的版本"},{"start":4985.74,"end":4987.74,"text":"但是在這個過程"},{"start":4987.74,"end":4989.74,"text":"各部會他們還是有他們的"},{"start":4989.74,"end":4991.74,"text":"堅持的卡 所以我們會努力"},{"start":4991.74,"end":4993.74,"text":"副主委講到一個重點"},{"start":4993.74,"end":4995.74,"text":"你們會提出你們要的版本"},{"start":4995.74,"end":4997.74,"text":"那我在這邊具體的建議"},{"start":4997.74,"end":4999.74,"text":"就是我們到時候的共管辦法"},{"start":4999.74,"end":5001.74,"text":"這個得可以"},{"start":5002,"end":5004,"text":"改成因"},{"start":5032,"end":5034,"text":"好 所以我希望你們要有你們的立場"},{"start":5034,"end":5036,"text":"然後堅持應該要幫原住民族"},{"start":5036,"end":5038,"text":"爭取他們的權益好不好"},{"start":5038,"end":5040,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5040,"end":5042,"text":"所以這個共管辦法"},{"start":5042,"end":5044,"text":"那最後再提醒一個就是這個共同召集人"},{"start":5044,"end":5046,"text":"因為其實剛剛你說的這個"},{"start":5046,"end":5048,"text":"林保署還有國家公園署其實裡面都有提到"},{"start":5048,"end":5050,"text":"必須要有一個原住民族的代表"},{"start":5050,"end":5052,"text":"擔任共同召集人"},{"start":5052,"end":5054,"text":"但是我們沒有"},{"start":5054,"end":5056,"text":"我們希望全力要分享義務要共同承擔"},{"start":5056,"end":5058,"text":"沒錯"},{"start":5058,"end":5060,"text":"所以希望到時候共同召集人的部分你們也可以納進去"},{"start":5060,"end":5062,"text":"是 謝謝"},{"start":5069.84,"end":5071.84,"text":"我們下一位請張宏路委員發言詞詢"},{"start":5086.7,"end":5088.7,"text":"好 請出席"},{"start":5093.78,"end":5095.78,"text":"我也好"},{"start":5095.96,"end":5097.96,"text":"這個啊"},{"start":5097.96,"end":5101.96,"text":"南島宇族航海計畫"},{"start":5101.96,"end":5103.96,"text":"這個其實都已經做了"},{"start":5103.96,"end":5105.96,"text":"也做得不錯"},{"start":5105.96,"end":5107.96,"text":"那你們現在做完了之後"},{"start":5107.96,"end":5109.96,"text":"後續你們還有什麼推動"},{"start":5111.57,"end":5115.57,"text":"後續事實上我們是希望能夠持續的進行這個文化繼續的交流"},{"start":5115.57,"end":5119.57,"text":"那我們也有相關未來的規劃是不是那個"},{"start":5119.57,"end":5121.57,"text":"簡單"},{"start":5121.76,"end":5123.76,"text":"好 請到位"},{"start":5123.55,"end":5125.55,"text":"明年會繼續辦嗎"},{"start":5126.74,"end":5128.74,"text":"航海應該"},{"start":5128.55,"end":5130.55,"text":"沒有辦法每年這樣持續辦"},{"start":5130.55,"end":5132.55,"text":"因為它事實上它要準備"},{"start":5132.55,"end":5134.55,"text":"未來還是有可能"},{"start":5134.55,"end":5136.55,"text":"因為我們這次有一個非常"},{"start":5136.55,"end":5138.55,"text":"經過這樣的過程我們其實獲得非常多的經驗"},{"start":5140.21,"end":5142.21,"text":"我"},{"start":5142.21,"end":5144.21,"text":"我覺得整個"},{"start":5144.21,"end":5146.21,"text":"這個南島宇系"},{"start":5146.21,"end":5148.21,"text":"其實範圍蠻大的"},{"start":5148.21,"end":5150.21,"text":"那我們這一次"},{"start":5150.21,"end":5152.21,"text":"有到菲律賓了"},{"start":5152.21,"end":5154.21,"text":"到這邊"},{"start":5154.21,"end":5156.21,"text":"因為你這次也是有文化部"},{"start":5156.21,"end":5158.21,"text":"大家一起合辦的"},{"start":5158.21,"end":5160.21,"text":"外交部什麼的"},{"start":5160.21,"end":5162.21,"text":"我想請問一下"},{"start":5162.9,"end":5164.9,"text":"這個我們自己在這邊辦的很高興"},{"start":5166.67,"end":5168.67,"text":"那在菲律賓的宣傳"},{"start":5168.67,"end":5170.67,"text":"你們後續要怎麼做"},{"start":5170.67,"end":5172.67,"text":"有這個計畫嗎"},{"start":5173.35,"end":5175.35,"text":"菲律賓的宣傳的部分"},{"start":5176.15,"end":5178.15,"text":"請董事長說一下"},{"start":5179.09,"end":5181.09,"text":"委員好"},{"start":5181.09,"end":5183.09,"text":"就是我們這次的"},{"start":5183.09,"end":5185.09,"text":"就是黃金友一號"},{"start":5185.09,"end":5187.09,"text":"我們劃到巴丹島"},{"start":5187.09,"end":5189.09,"text":"這個都不用講了"},{"start":5189.09,"end":5191.09,"text":"我們捐贈給巴丹島"},{"start":5191.09,"end":5193.09,"text":"這個都知道了"},{"start":5193.09,"end":5195.09,"text":"然後進行後續在巴丹島"},{"start":5195.09,"end":5197.09,"text":"進行這個傳跟社區"},{"start":5197.09,"end":5199.09,"text":"跟研究單位的合作"},{"start":5199.09,"end":5201.09,"text":"跟研究單位"},{"start":5201.09,"end":5203.09,"text":"跟什麼這是一件事"},{"start":5203.09,"end":5205.09,"text":"我說的是宣傳"},{"start":5205.09,"end":5207.09,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":5206.29,"end":5208.29,"text":"血濃於水啦"},{"start":5208.5,"end":5210.5,"text":"你既然大家的"},{"start":5210.5,"end":5212.5,"text":"這個南島委序都一樣"},{"start":5212.5,"end":5214.5,"text":"那你要跟他當朋友"},{"start":5214.5,"end":5216.5,"text":"為什麼不趁著這個機會"},{"start":5216.5,"end":5218.5,"text":"把這些南島委序"},{"start":5218.5,"end":5220.5,"text":"讓他知道台灣的"},{"start":5220.5,"end":5222.5,"text":"跟他們就是同源同種"},{"start":5222.5,"end":5224.5,"text":"那他們才可以連結起來"},{"start":5224.5,"end":5226.5,"text":"他才會對台灣友好"},{"start":5226.5,"end":5228.5,"text":"才會遇到事情"},{"start":5228.5,"end":5230.5,"text":"這個就是我們的族人"},{"start":5230.91,"end":5232.91,"text":"這個是後續的宣傳才是重要的"},{"start":5234.47,"end":5236.47,"text":"所以你們後面有沒有"},{"start":5236.47,"end":5238.47,"text":"在這些南島委序的國家"},{"start":5238.47,"end":5240.47,"text":"去宣傳啊"},{"start":5240.71,"end":5242.71,"text":"那你跟外交部跟什麼大家配合啊"},{"start":5242.71,"end":5244.71,"text":"不然你花了這麼多錢"},{"start":5244.71,"end":5246.71,"text":"就這樣子"},{"start":5246.71,"end":5248.71,"text":"放了煙火就沒了"},{"start":5248.73,"end":5250.73,"text":"因為我們在"},{"start":5250.73,"end":5252.73,"text":"明年也有編了相關"},{"start":5252.73,"end":5254.73,"text":"南島文化交流中長城計畫"},{"start":5254.73,"end":5256.73,"text":"那這個計畫裡面有一些資源"},{"start":5256.73,"end":5258.73,"text":"會整合運用"},{"start":5258.73,"end":5260.73,"text":"那不管是航海人才的培育跟航海記憶傳產"},{"start":5260.73,"end":5262.73,"text":"跟合作交流"},{"start":5262.73,"end":5264.73,"text":"重點都在這裡"},{"start":5264.73,"end":5266.73,"text":"我的重點跟你們回答的"},{"start":5266.73,"end":5268.73,"text":"完全不一樣"},{"start":5268.73,"end":5270.73,"text":"那我就明確的跟你們說"},{"start":5270.73,"end":5272.73,"text":"我希望你們"},{"start":5272.73,"end":5274.73,"text":"要編"},{"start":5273.03,"end":5275.03,"text":"這個國際的宣傳的預算"},{"start":5275.03,"end":5277.03,"text":"然後讓他們知道"},{"start":5277.03,"end":5279.03,"text":"所有南島委序的人知道"},{"start":5281.26,"end":5283.26,"text":"台灣就是跟他們一樣的"},{"start":5283.26,"end":5285.26,"text":"台灣的這個達悟主"},{"start":5285.26,"end":5287.26,"text":"這些跟他們一樣的"},{"start":5287.26,"end":5289.26,"text":"可以跟外交部配合"},{"start":5289.26,"end":5291.26,"text":"可以跟什麼"},{"start":5291.26,"end":5293.26,"text":"然後在那邊辦活動"},{"start":5293.26,"end":5295.26,"text":"然後用宣傳"},{"start":5295.26,"end":5297.26,"text":"我覺得這個才是重點啊"},{"start":5297.26,"end":5299.26,"text":"我們來檢討改進看看"},{"start":5299.26,"end":5301.26,"text":"怎麼處理"},{"start":5301.26,"end":5303.26,"text":"可以喔那我希望我在明年的預算看到這些"},{"start":5303.26,"end":5305.26,"text":"是我們"},{"start":5305.26,"end":5307.26,"text":"不然預算我說得很支持"},{"start":5307.26,"end":5309.26,"text":"我們再來檢討這個部分"},{"start":5309.26,"end":5311.26,"text":"我覺得這個要嘛"},{"start":5311.26,"end":5313.26,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":5313.26,"end":5315.26,"text":"很多國家都這樣做"},{"start":5316.2,"end":5318.2,"text":"那我們既然花了這麼多錢"},{"start":5318.2,"end":5320.2,"text":"我希望你們要這樣子做"},{"start":5320.2,"end":5322.2,"text":"才不會浪費了這些"},{"start":5322.2,"end":5324.2,"text":"你想想看"},{"start":5324.2,"end":5326.2,"text":"你跟他如果他認同你"},{"start":5326.95,"end":5328.95,"text":"有任何事情他會聽你說話"},{"start":5328.95,"end":5330.95,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5330.95,"end":5332.95,"text":"不是只有一個宣傳"},{"start":5332.95,"end":5334.95,"text":"不是只有對台灣我覺得那個"},{"start":5334.95,"end":5336.95,"text":"太可惜了啦"},{"start":5336.95,"end":5338.95,"text":"可以啦"},{"start":5338.95,"end":5340.95,"text":"你們會這樣做好"},{"start":5340.95,"end":5342.95,"text":"那我們就來看喔"},{"start":5342.95,"end":5344.95,"text":"那我也希望說如果你們要怎麼做"},{"start":5344.95,"end":5346.95,"text":"也給個資料給我好不好"},{"start":5346.95,"end":5348.95,"text":"大家一起看看"},{"start":5348.95,"end":5350.95,"text":"也不要給我而已啦"},{"start":5350.95,"end":5352.95,"text":"給所有內政委員會啦"},{"start":5352.95,"end":5354.95,"text":"大家集思廣益看怎麼做會比較好嘛"},{"start":5354.95,"end":5356.95,"text":"這個我覺得很難得的機會"},{"start":5356.95,"end":5358.95,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5358.95,"end":5360.95,"text":"你可以給董事長補充一下嗎"},{"start":5362.67,"end":5364.67,"text":"跟部委員再做一個補充"},{"start":5364.67,"end":5366.67,"text":"就是在九月份"},{"start":5366.67,"end":5368.67,"text":"那全世界的原住民電視台"},{"start":5368.67,"end":5370.67,"text":"原住民的媒體"},{"start":5370.67,"end":5372.67,"text":"會在挪威有一個世界大會"},{"start":5372.67,"end":5374.67,"text":"那這個"},{"start":5374.67,"end":5376.67,"text":"航海的計畫跟國際的"},{"start":5376.67,"end":5378.67,"text":"文化的交流也會在"},{"start":5378.67,"end":5380.67,"text":"那個地方來跟"},{"start":5380.67,"end":5382.67,"text":"所有的全世界的原住民"},{"start":5382.67,"end":5384.67,"text":"做宣傳"},{"start":5384.67,"end":5386.67,"text":"這個我都支持"},{"start":5386.67,"end":5388.67,"text":"但重點"},{"start":5388.29,"end":5390.29,"text":"在南島語系的國家"},{"start":5390.29,"end":5392.29,"text":"我們這個要宣傳要做"},{"start":5392.29,"end":5394.29,"text":"讓他們要互相認同"},{"start":5394.29,"end":5396.29,"text":"這個才是重點"},{"start":5396.29,"end":5398.29,"text":"我覺得這個才是這樣"},{"start":5398.29,"end":5400.29,"text":"那再來"},{"start":5400.29,"end":5402.29,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":5402.29,"end":5404.29,"text":"我們原住民主廣播電台"},{"start":5404.29,"end":5406.29,"text":"這個信號我看你們那個資料"},{"start":5409.84,"end":5411.84,"text":"預算是編不夠嗎"},{"start":5412.54,"end":5414.54,"text":"因為你們的建置"},{"start":5414.54,"end":5416.54,"text":"我覺得還沒有達到我們的目標"},{"start":5416.54,"end":5418.54,"text":"目前只有82%"},{"start":5418.54,"end":5420.54,"text":"預算是不夠嗎"},{"start":5420.54,"end":5422.54,"text":"並沒有不夠"},{"start":5422.54,"end":5424.54,"text":"並沒有不夠就是技術性的問題"},{"start":5424.54,"end":5426.54,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5426.54,"end":5428.54,"text":"那我真的覺得太慢了"},{"start":5428.54,"end":5430.54,"text":"我真的覺得太慢了"},{"start":5430.54,"end":5432.54,"text":"技術性的問題"},{"start":5432.54,"end":5434.54,"text":"應該很好解決"},{"start":5435.03,"end":5437.03,"text":"只要是技術性的問題都不是不能解決的"},{"start":5437.03,"end":5439.03,"text":"我希望能夠快一點"},{"start":5439.03,"end":5441.03,"text":"你們不要"},{"start":5441.03,"end":5443.03,"text":"這樣子你們可以跟各部會"},{"start":5443.03,"end":5445.03,"text":"互相協議"},{"start":5445.69,"end":5447.69,"text":"大家互相幫忙"},{"start":5447.69,"end":5449.69,"text":"互相協力 互相協作"},{"start":5449.69,"end":5451.69,"text":"我覺得這樣的"},{"start":5451.69,"end":5453.69,"text":"真的太慢了"},{"start":5453.69,"end":5455.69,"text":"每年給你這麼多的預算"},{"start":5455.69,"end":5457.69,"text":"結果你信號出不出去"},{"start":5457.69,"end":5459.69,"text":"那給你們預算幹嘛"},{"start":5459.67,"end":5461.67,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5461.49,"end":5463.49,"text":"現在原民會也會協助"},{"start":5463.49,"end":5465.49,"text":"原文會來處理"},{"start":5465.49,"end":5467.49,"text":"有關工程技術要跨部會協調的部分"},{"start":5467.49,"end":5469.49,"text":"這個本來就要做"},{"start":5469.49,"end":5471.49,"text":"不是現在"},{"start":5471.49,"end":5473.49,"text":"我的意思是本來就要做的不是現在才要做"},{"start":5473.49,"end":5475.49,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5475.49,"end":5477.49,"text":"我覺得這個真的太慢了"},{"start":5477.49,"end":5479.49,"text":"你自己想想看"},{"start":5479.49,"end":5481.49,"text":"我如果是原住民的朋友"},{"start":5481.49,"end":5483.49,"text":"你們講的那麼多我連收聽都收聽不到"},{"start":5483.49,"end":5485.49,"text":"我覺得這個不對"},{"start":5485.49,"end":5487.49,"text":"你們多久可以改善"},{"start":5488.88,"end":5490.88,"text":"多久可以改善"},{"start":5491.78,"end":5493.78,"text":"我們在"},{"start":5493.78,"end":5495.78,"text":"一年之內"},{"start":5495.78,"end":5497.78,"text":"我們所有的站塔應該進度"},{"start":5497.78,"end":5499.78,"text":"會再超前"},{"start":5499.78,"end":5501.78,"text":"各位再做報告就是這些站塔"},{"start":5501.78,"end":5503.78,"text":"其實大部分是在原鄉的"},{"start":5503.78,"end":5505.78,"text":"山坡地"},{"start":5505.78,"end":5507.78,"text":"這個山坡地的相關法規"},{"start":5507.78,"end":5509.78,"text":"以及原住民保留地的相關"},{"start":5509.78,"end":5511.78,"text":"這個我都知道"},{"start":5511.78,"end":5513.78,"text":"這個我都知道"},{"start":5513.78,"end":5515.78,"text":"但你們就是遇到問題停在那邊"},{"start":5515.78,"end":5517.78,"text":"我跟你講有很多方式可以解決"},{"start":5517.78,"end":5519.78,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":5519.78,"end":5521.78,"text":"我舉個例子好了"},{"start":5521.78,"end":5523.78,"text":"我舉個例子好了"},{"start":5524.03,"end":5526.03,"text":"人家那個"},{"start":5526.03,"end":5528.03,"text":"他為了要賺錢"},{"start":5528.03,"end":5530.03,"text":"他會想盡辦法趕快解決"},{"start":5530.03,"end":5532.03,"text":"但你們就是"},{"start":5532.03,"end":5534.03,"text":"我問個問題我卡住了我就怎麼樣"},{"start":5534.03,"end":5536.03,"text":"我覺得那是不對的"},{"start":5536.03,"end":5538.03,"text":"你們不夠積極"},{"start":5538.03,"end":5540.03,"text":"你請各部會去一起協調處理"},{"start":5540.03,"end":5542.03,"text":"我覺得就會快很多"},{"start":5542.03,"end":5544.03,"text":"我舉這個例子很清楚吧"},{"start":5544.03,"end":5546.03,"text":"我們在這段時間"},{"start":5546.03,"end":5548.03,"text":"其實最主要是鄉公所"},{"start":5548.03,"end":5550.03,"text":"都出面幫忙我們"},{"start":5550.03,"end":5552.03,"text":"有一些地方的土地的取代"},{"start":5552.03,"end":5554.03,"text":"跟山坡地"},{"start":5554.03,"end":5556.03,"text":"鄉公所跟我們的合作蠻密切"},{"start":5556.03,"end":5558.03,"text":"我們在這一塊可能會再繼續努力"},{"start":5558.03,"end":5560.03,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":5560.03,"end":5562.03,"text":"做事情要找對方法"},{"start":5562.03,"end":5564.03,"text":"不是每天公文在那邊"},{"start":5564.03,"end":5566.03,"text":"你看人家"},{"start":5566.03,"end":5568.03,"text":"我就舉個你去看人家"},{"start":5568.03,"end":5570.03,"text":"如果你們不知道你去看人家電信公司"},{"start":5570.03,"end":5572.03,"text":"如何解決這些問題"},{"start":5572.43,"end":5574.43,"text":"如果你們不是工程專業"},{"start":5574.43,"end":5576.43,"text":"我了解"},{"start":5576.43,"end":5578.43,"text":"但有很多例子你們去找來參考就好了"},{"start":5578.43,"end":5580.43,"text":"人家就可以馬上解決"},{"start":5580.43,"end":5582.43,"text":"那我覺得這樣拖得太久了"},{"start":5582.43,"end":5584.43,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5584.43,"end":5586.43,"text":"我覺得剝奪了原住民"},{"start":5586.43,"end":5588.43,"text":"我們在比較偏鄉"},{"start":5588.43,"end":5590.43,"text":"原住民的同胞"},{"start":5590.43,"end":5592.43,"text":"他們的權利"},{"start":5592.43,"end":5594.43,"text":"這點拜託"},{"start":5594.43,"end":5596.43,"text":"最後再給我30秒"},{"start":5596.62,"end":5598.62,"text":"副主委"},{"start":5599.59,"end":5601.59,"text":"如果去打獵"},{"start":5602.11,"end":5604.11,"text":"他是不是配槍跟配刀"},{"start":5605.13,"end":5607.13,"text":"可以啊"},{"start":5607.13,"end":5609.13,"text":"那他如果去參加豐年祭什麼的"},{"start":5609.13,"end":5611.13,"text":"他可不可以"},{"start":5611.13,"end":5613.13,"text":"照他們各族的傳統"},{"start":5613.13,"end":5615.13,"text":"配槍配刀豐年祭"},{"start":5615.13,"end":5617.13,"text":"我們在很多豐年祭"},{"start":5617.13,"end":5619.13,"text":"事實上在很多的祭儀的過程"},{"start":5619.13,"end":5621.13,"text":"都會有用到獵槍"},{"start":5621.16,"end":5623.16,"text":"配刀是一個"},{"start":5623.16,"end":5625.16,"text":"本身的服飾上的標準配備"},{"start":5625.16,"end":5627.16,"text":"他可不可以"},{"start":5627.16,"end":5629.16,"text":"可以"},{"start":5629.16,"end":5631.16,"text":"那他如果可以的話"},{"start":5631.16,"end":5633.16,"text":"我相信我要講的你知道"},{"start":5634.86,"end":5636.86,"text":"你們應該要跟警政署"},{"start":5636.86,"end":5638.86,"text":"跟什麼"},{"start":5638.86,"end":5640.86,"text":"要去聯絡好"},{"start":5640.86,"end":5642.86,"text":"這種事情不能再發生"},{"start":5642.86,"end":5644.86,"text":"不管他有沒有"},{"start":5644.86,"end":5646.86,"text":"做出抗議的行為"},{"start":5646.86,"end":5648.86,"text":"這是對原住民傳統的尊重"},{"start":5651.08,"end":5653.08,"text":"那個事件的本身"},{"start":5653.08,"end":5655.08,"text":"可能"},{"start":5654.25,"end":5656.25,"text":"到底怎麼樣"},{"start":5656.25,"end":5658.25,"text":"但原住民的傳統的本身"},{"start":5658.25,"end":5660.25,"text":"這個要尊重"},{"start":5660.25,"end":5662.25,"text":"這個是你們原民會最主要的責任"},{"start":5662.25,"end":5664.25,"text":"事情發生了之後"},{"start":5664.25,"end":5666.25,"text":"你們有跟警政署聯繫了嗎"},{"start":5670.64,"end":5672.64,"text":"跟委員報告目前還沒有"},{"start":5672.64,"end":5674.64,"text":"沒有嘛"},{"start":5674,"end":5676,"text":"這個不對啦"},{"start":5676,"end":5678,"text":"我也知道你們沒有啦"},{"start":5678.11,"end":5680.11,"text":"但如果是這種事情一發生"},{"start":5680.11,"end":5682.11,"text":"馬上就要跟他們講啊"},{"start":5682.11,"end":5684.11,"text":"你們的主委就要跟內政部長講啊"},{"start":5684.58,"end":5686.58,"text":"這是我們原住民族的傳統啊"},{"start":5687.6,"end":5689.6,"text":"我覺得不管什麼事情"},{"start":5690.97,"end":5692.97,"text":"都有其他面向"},{"start":5692.68,"end":5694.68,"text":"但傳統"},{"start":5694.47,"end":5696.47,"text":"就是傳統"},{"start":5696.47,"end":5698.47,"text":"不然我們每天在這邊"},{"start":5698.47,"end":5700.47,"text":"講這麼多 立這麼多的法"},{"start":5700.32,"end":5702.32,"text":"要幹什麼"},{"start":5701.74,"end":5703.74,"text":"這一點我拜託你們"},{"start":5703.74,"end":5705.74,"text":"如果趕快去處理"},{"start":5705.74,"end":5707.74,"text":"未來有類似這種事情"},{"start":5707.74,"end":5709.74,"text":"你要第一時間要處理"},{"start":5709.74,"end":5711.74,"text":"你們主委就是要跟內政部長講"},{"start":5711.74,"end":5713.74,"text":"這是我們的傳統啊"},{"start":5713.74,"end":5715.74,"text":"對不對 不應該這樣子啦"},{"start":5715.74,"end":5717.74,"text":"你覺得勒"},{"start":5718.56,"end":5720.56,"text":"我們會跟主委傳達這件事情"},{"start":5720.56,"end":5722.56,"text":"然後跟內政部再來看"},{"start":5722.56,"end":5724.56,"text":"或許怎麼樣子來"},{"start":5724.56,"end":5726.56,"text":"這個要趕快處理"},{"start":5726.56,"end":5728.56,"text":"未來如果有類似這種"},{"start":5728.56,"end":5730.56,"text":"不尊重原住民傳統的"},{"start":5730.56,"end":5732.56,"text":"我覺得你們要第一時間要出來"},{"start":5732.56,"end":5734.56,"text":"很多的原住民族的同胞"},{"start":5734.56,"end":5736.56,"text":"都在看我們原民會"},{"start":5736.56,"end":5738.56,"text":"到底在做了什麼事情"},{"start":5738.56,"end":5740.56,"text":"你這樣子是會含了所有原住民"},{"start":5740.56,"end":5742.56,"text":"同胞的心啊 好不好"},{"start":5742.56,"end":5744.56,"text":"好 謝謝委員知道"},{"start":5749.55,"end":5751.55,"text":"謝謝張宏儒委員"},{"start":5751.55,"end":5753.55,"text":"我們先請廖先生到位"},{"start":5759.92,"end":5761.92,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩邀請我們副主委"},{"start":5761.92,"end":5763.92,"text":"還有馬洛斯董事長"},{"start":5763.92,"end":5765.92,"text":"有請副主委還有董事長"},{"start":5767.97,"end":5769.97,"text":"委員好"},{"start":5769.97,"end":5771.97,"text":"延續宏儒委員剛剛有提到的"},{"start":5771.97,"end":5773.97,"text":"也是我關心的"},{"start":5773.97,"end":5775.97,"text":"就是我們這個藍語跟巴丹島的"},{"start":5775.97,"end":5777.97,"text":"這個連結嘛"},{"start":5777.97,"end":5779.97,"text":"那除了單次的活動之外"},{"start":5779.97,"end":5781.97,"text":"我們更希望看到"},{"start":5781.97,"end":5783.97,"text":"後續無論是"},{"start":5783.97,"end":5785.97,"text":"民族情感的持續的交流"},{"start":5785.97,"end":5787.97,"text":"甚至是擴大到"},{"start":5787.97,"end":5789.97,"text":"國家的整體的利益"},{"start":5789.97,"end":5791.97,"text":"也能夠藉由這樣子的活動"},{"start":5791.97,"end":5793.97,"text":"去做到外交"},{"start":5793.97,"end":5795.97,"text":"或者是相關可能"},{"start":5795.97,"end":5797.97,"text":"漁權上面的一個互助"},{"start":5797.97,"end":5799.97,"text":"那能不能先"},{"start":5799.97,"end":5801.97,"text":"就這兩方面來說明一下"},{"start":5801.97,"end":5803.97,"text":"第一個就是"},{"start":5803.66,"end":5805.66,"text":"民族的這個"},{"start":5805.66,"end":5807.66,"text":"文化交流循根"},{"start":5807.66,"end":5809.66,"text":"那除了這一次之後"},{"start":5809.66,"end":5811.66,"text":"那後續有沒有一些定期的一個"},{"start":5811.66,"end":5813.66,"text":"活動讓這一次的活動"},{"start":5813.66,"end":5815.66,"text":"不是只是可能後續"},{"start":5815.66,"end":5817.66,"text":"拍拍紀念影片"},{"start":5817.66,"end":5819.66,"text":"然後做個紀念"},{"start":5819.66,"end":5821.66,"text":"就沒有了 我想這應該"},{"start":5821.66,"end":5823.66,"text":"也不是說族人的"},{"start":5823.66,"end":5825.66,"text":"期待 或者說"},{"start":5825.66,"end":5827.66,"text":"我們現在有沒有在爭取相關的"},{"start":5827.66,"end":5829.66,"text":"預算希望未來能夠做更深層的"},{"start":5829.66,"end":5831.66,"text":"連結 或者說"},{"start":5831.66,"end":5833.66,"text":"就是我們過去 未來有沒有一些"},{"start":5833.66,"end":5835.66,"text":"邀訪的計畫"},{"start":5835.66,"end":5837.66,"text":"仍然好凶 本來就是"},{"start":5837.66,"end":5839.66,"text":"互相不能做到我們去"},{"start":5839.66,"end":5841.66,"text":"他們也來讓我們才能看得到"},{"start":5841.66,"end":5843.66,"text":"這樣的成果是雙方都是"},{"start":5843.66,"end":5845.66,"text":"期待看到的"},{"start":5845.66,"end":5847.66,"text":"情感連結"},{"start":5847.78,"end":5849.78,"text":"我想未來原民會是會運用"},{"start":5849.78,"end":5851.78,"text":"南島文化交流中長城的計畫"},{"start":5851.78,"end":5853.78,"text":"來爭取預算 來做跨部會"},{"start":5853.78,"end":5855.78,"text":"支援的運用"},{"start":5855.78,"end":5857.78,"text":"我們會持續地辦理這個傳統"},{"start":5857.78,"end":5859.78,"text":"這個後來人才的培育"},{"start":5859.78,"end":5861.78,"text":"實際一點的方向可能會有"},{"start":5861.78,"end":5863.78,"text":"實際的做法跟群島的這個"},{"start":5863.78,"end":5865.78,"text":"互動 我想蘭嶼的這個"},{"start":5865.78,"end":5867.78,"text":"族人應該平常"},{"start":5867.78,"end":5869.78,"text":"經常都有這樣的一個互動啦"},{"start":5869.78,"end":5871.78,"text":"那他們事實上之前"},{"start":5871.78,"end":5873.78,"text":"民間或是本來的部分"},{"start":5873.78,"end":5875.78,"text":"未來就是現在我們是"},{"start":5875.78,"end":5877.78,"text":"現在官方在協助推動嘛"},{"start":5877.78,"end":5879.78,"text":"對不對 國家資源進來了嘛"},{"start":5879.78,"end":5881.78,"text":"當然不希望國家資源就進來"},{"start":5881.78,"end":5883.78,"text":"就一次了嘛 如果說你進來一次"},{"start":5883.78,"end":5885.78,"text":"他們之後就可以常常"},{"start":5885.78,"end":5887.78,"text":"這個交流非常密切的話"},{"start":5887.78,"end":5889.78,"text":"我覺得這可能有點不切實際啦"},{"start":5889.78,"end":5891.78,"text":"如果是國家的"},{"start":5891.78,"end":5893.78,"text":"中長城計畫"},{"start":5893.78,"end":5895.78,"text":"那應該就會有一個具體的"},{"start":5895.78,"end":5897.78,"text":"想要做的事項 在裡面你才能夠"},{"start":5897.78,"end":5899.78,"text":"編經費嘛 對不對"},{"start":5899.78,"end":5901.78,"text":"現在有沒有一些初步的構想"},{"start":5901.78,"end":5903.78,"text":"能夠分享"},{"start":5902.57,"end":5904.57,"text":"謝謝委員 就是我們目前都"},{"start":5904.57,"end":5906.57,"text":"全力配合"},{"start":5906.57,"end":5908.57,"text":"原民會在原住民"},{"start":5908.57,"end":5910.57,"text":"文化上面的推動"},{"start":5910.57,"end":5912.57,"text":"那近期在明年蘭嶼"},{"start":5912.57,"end":5914.57,"text":"鄉公所也會組織一個"},{"start":5914.57,"end":5916.57,"text":"訪問團"},{"start":5916.57,"end":5918.57,"text":"繼續延續這個航海 那第二個就是"},{"start":5918.57,"end":5920.57,"text":"我們划到巴丹島之後"},{"start":5920.57,"end":5922.57,"text":"這艘船目前是兼備"},{"start":5922.57,"end":5924.57,"text":"抱歉 剛剛您講那個蘭嶼明年會再"},{"start":5924.57,"end":5926.57,"text":"組織一個航海 鄉公所"},{"start":5927.05,"end":5929.05,"text":"對 鄉公所 是要再過去一次"},{"start":5929.05,"end":5931.05,"text":"對 那另外"},{"start":5931.05,"end":5933.05,"text":"另外就是我們會"},{"start":5933.05,"end":5935.05,"text":"因為現在船在巴丹島"},{"start":5935.05,"end":5937.05,"text":"那明年巴丹島的"},{"start":5937.05,"end":5939.05,"text":"省長他也希望"},{"start":5939.05,"end":5941.05,"text":"用那艘船能夠再回來蘭嶼"},{"start":5941.05,"end":5943.05,"text":"那最主要是我本身"},{"start":5943.05,"end":5945.05,"text":"自己是蘭嶼人 我們過去都會"},{"start":5945.05,"end":5947.05,"text":"划船過去通婚"},{"start":5947.05,"end":5949.05,"text":"然後交易這個農作物"},{"start":5949.05,"end":5951.05,"text":"所以如果能夠直航的話 我們在文化上"},{"start":5951.05,"end":5953.05,"text":"教育觀光的合作"},{"start":5953.05,"end":5955.05,"text":"可能就會更密切"},{"start":5955.05,"end":5957.05,"text":"所以未來這樣子巴丹島跟蘭嶼"},{"start":5957.05,"end":5959.05,"text":"之間的航行"},{"start":5959.05,"end":5961.05,"text":"可能會變成"},{"start":5961.05,"end":5963.05,"text":"例行性的常態"},{"start":5963.05,"end":5965.05,"text":"當然不是每天"},{"start":5965.05,"end":5967.05,"text":"可能就每個年度互相來訪這樣子"},{"start":5967.05,"end":5969.05,"text":"那未來他們也有來的意願"},{"start":5969.05,"end":5971.05,"text":"好 那我就覺得這個應該是"},{"start":5971.05,"end":5973.05,"text":"如果說大家都認為是一件好的事情"},{"start":5973.05,"end":5975.05,"text":"那當然有文化或者是影視上面的"},{"start":5975.05,"end":5977.05,"text":"支持讓大家更認識"},{"start":5977.05,"end":5979.05,"text":"加強裡面的連結都很好"},{"start":5979.05,"end":5981.05,"text":"那就是繼續做下去 我想這也是大家"},{"start":5981.05,"end":5983.05,"text":"所期待的 那另外一個就是可能"},{"start":5983.05,"end":5985.05,"text":"會有一部分是民族的情感的連結"},{"start":5985.05,"end":5987.05,"text":"懸根嘛"},{"start":5987.05,"end":5989.05,"text":"那另外一部分也是國家化許多的預算"},{"start":5989.05,"end":5991.05,"text":"我們剛剛講了"},{"start":5991.05,"end":5993.05,"text":"那尤其是我們可能最近"},{"start":5992.58,"end":5994.58,"text":"以中華民國來講"},{"start":5994.58,"end":5996.58,"text":"跟菲律賓如果說要有衝突的話"},{"start":5996.58,"end":5998.58,"text":"可能就是在漁業方面的衝突"},{"start":5998.58,"end":6000.58,"text":"可能是比較大的"},{"start":6000.58,"end":6002.58,"text":"我也覺得說是不是能夠"},{"start":6002.58,"end":6004.58,"text":"或許這可能不是原民會的業務"},{"start":6004.58,"end":6006.58,"text":"這當然不是你們的業務 這是漁業組的業務"},{"start":6006.58,"end":6008.58,"text":"但是既然"},{"start":6008.58,"end":6010.58,"text":"這個算是一種外交行為"},{"start":6010.58,"end":6012.58,"text":"我們認為以國家的角度來看"},{"start":6012.58,"end":6014.58,"text":"它是一種外交行為 我們也希望說這樣外交行為"},{"start":6014.58,"end":6016.58,"text":"的友善提升"},{"start":6016.58,"end":6018.58,"text":"對於未來雙方的漁業"},{"start":6018.58,"end":6020.58,"text":"的談判也能夠"},{"start":6020.58,"end":6022.58,"text":"提升可能是你是中華民國"},{"start":6022.58,"end":6024.58,"text":"你是菲律賓 兩個不同的國家"},{"start":6024.58,"end":6026.58,"text":"現在是"},{"start":6027.16,"end":6029.16,"text":"自己人 大家是一家人"},{"start":6029.16,"end":6031.16,"text":"那有些東西是不是沒有必要計較得那麼清楚"},{"start":6031.16,"end":6033.16,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":6033.16,"end":6035.16,"text":"是不是"},{"start":6035.16,"end":6037.16,"text":"在未來漁業權的方面"},{"start":6037.28,"end":6039.28,"text":"你有沒有想過有沒有辦法"},{"start":6039.28,"end":6041.28,"text":"在這方面來協助國家"},{"start":6041.03,"end":6043.03,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":6043.03,"end":6045.03,"text":"漁業上面的產業"},{"start":6045.03,"end":6047.03,"text":"當然不在我們原文會的權限"},{"start":6047.03,"end":6049.03,"text":"不過我們在去年邀請"},{"start":6049.03,"end":6051.03,"text":"巴丹省的省長的訪問團"},{"start":6051.03,"end":6053.03,"text":"他們來台灣的時候"},{"start":6053.03,"end":6055.03,"text":"有跟漁業署進行一個會談"},{"start":6055.03,"end":6057.03,"text":"洽商 那因為過去其實"},{"start":6057.03,"end":6059.03,"text":"這個漁業比較緊張"},{"start":6059.03,"end":6061.03,"text":"雙方也談到一些合作"},{"start":6061.03,"end":6063.03,"text":"那這個互相投資"},{"start":6063.03,"end":6065.03,"text":"或者是漁業的輔導"},{"start":6065.03,"end":6067.03,"text":"那共享漁業資源"},{"start":6067.03,"end":6069.03,"text":"目前是他們過去是"},{"start":6069.03,"end":6071.03,"text":"去年是有談到這個部分的面向"},{"start":6071.03,"end":6073.03,"text":"是啊 那這是一個很好的方向"},{"start":6073.03,"end":6075.03,"text":"我們不只是做民族情感的連結"},{"start":6075.03,"end":6077.03,"text":"溯源 而是對於現在兩個國家"},{"start":6077.03,"end":6079.03,"text":"可能潛在的一些衝突"},{"start":6080.72,"end":6082.72,"text":"非原住民族的權益"},{"start":6082.72,"end":6084.72,"text":"也可以藉由這樣子的活動來"},{"start":6084.72,"end":6086.72,"text":"提升 也會獲得更多"},{"start":6086.72,"end":6088.72,"text":"國人的關注"},{"start":6088.72,"end":6090.72,"text":"那我也建議未來"},{"start":6090.72,"end":6092.72,"text":"我們是一個很好的窗口"},{"start":6092.72,"end":6094.72,"text":"未來如果說可能跟菲律賓"},{"start":6094.72,"end":6096.72,"text":"或者是當地有一些"},{"start":6096.72,"end":6098.72,"text":"可以溝通的地方 我覺得我們原住民族"},{"start":6098.72,"end":6100.72,"text":"如果說我們認為有一些好的管道"},{"start":6100.72,"end":6102.72,"text":"我們可以幫國家"},{"start":6102.72,"end":6104.72,"text":"做訊息的傳遞"},{"start":6104.72,"end":6106.72,"text":"我覺得這是未來我們可以繼續來努力的"},{"start":6106.72,"end":6108.72,"text":"好不好 以上就麻煩 謝謝"},{"start":6107.94,"end":6109.94,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6110.1,"end":6112.1,"text":"好 謝謝戴信箱委員"},{"start":6121.84,"end":6123.84,"text":"好 我們下一位請高清素美委員發言質詢"},{"start":6129.1,"end":6131.1,"text":"謝謝副主委"},{"start":6133.92,"end":6135.92,"text":"好 大家對於南島與竹行海計畫"},{"start":6135.92,"end":6137.92,"text":"就是八丹島這個案子"},{"start":6137.92,"end":6139.92,"text":"大家都有各自不同的看法"},{"start":6139.92,"end":6141.92,"text":"都很好 我想請問一下這個案子"},{"start":6141.92,"end":6143.92,"text":"是原民會生成的"},{"start":6143.92,"end":6145.92,"text":"還是原文會的發想"},{"start":6148.81,"end":6150.81,"text":"最早在111年"},{"start":6150.81,"end":6152.81,"text":"是那個原文會有跟那個"},{"start":6152.81,"end":6154.81,"text":"文化部申請這個"},{"start":6154.81,"end":6156.81,"text":"預算大概是1100萬"},{"start":6156.81,"end":6158.81,"text":"所以是"},{"start":6158.81,"end":6160.81,"text":"簡單講就是原文會的發起"},{"start":6160.81,"end":6162.81,"text":"後來在114年"},{"start":6162.81,"end":6164.81,"text":"才又再跟會裡面針對那個"},{"start":6164.81,"end":6166.81,"text":"115年跟文化部"},{"start":6166.81,"end":6168.81,"text":"111是跟文化部"},{"start":6168.81,"end":6170.81,"text":"111跟文化部"},{"start":6170.81,"end":6172.81,"text":"他們一開始啟動這個航海的這樣的"},{"start":6172.81,"end":6174.81,"text":"那所以這個111的時候"},{"start":6174.81,"end":6176.81,"text":"沒有成行"},{"start":6176.97,"end":6178.97,"text":"沒有 當時他著重在這個"},{"start":6178.97,"end":6180.97,"text":"灶州 灶這個拼板州"},{"start":6180.97,"end":6182.97,"text":"還有一些相關的"},{"start":6182.97,"end":6184.97,"text":"所以這個計畫應該是111年"},{"start":6184.97,"end":6186.97,"text":"一直到現在是不是"},{"start":6186.97,"end":6188.97,"text":"115年完成這樣子"},{"start":6188.97,"end":6190.97,"text":"那也就很"},{"start":6190.97,"end":6192.97,"text":"很長的一個計畫了"},{"start":6192.97,"end":6194.97,"text":"那請問一下這個計畫"},{"start":6194.97,"end":6196.97,"text":"你們會內開了多少次會"},{"start":6202.3,"end":6204.3,"text":"最少10次"},{"start":6204.3,"end":6206.3,"text":"那也就是有完整的開會的紀錄"},{"start":6206.3,"end":6208.3,"text":"請問一下完整的開會紀錄"},{"start":6208.3,"end":6210.3,"text":"可不可以提供給我"},{"start":6210.3,"end":6212.3,"text":"因為我為什麼今天會有這樣子的"},{"start":6212.3,"end":6214.3,"text":"一個專案報告是因為我覺得"},{"start":6214.3,"end":6216.3,"text":"這一次我們的行動"},{"start":6216.3,"end":6218.3,"text":"我覺得太過於"},{"start":6218.3,"end":6220.3,"text":"草率 為什麼草率呢"},{"start":6220.3,"end":6222.3,"text":"因為呢"},{"start":6222.3,"end":6224.3,"text":"你看你們八單島的直航計畫"},{"start":6224.3,"end":6226.3,"text":"3850塊"},{"start":6227.13,"end":6229.13,"text":"然後專案管理行政費"},{"start":6229.13,"end":6231.13,"text":"750萬"},{"start":6231.13,"end":6233.13,"text":"編列那麼高的管理會"},{"start":6233.13,"end":6235.13,"text":"為什麼這次的計畫"},{"start":6235.13,"end":6237.13,"text":"仍然出現重大的"},{"start":6237.13,"end":6239.13,"text":"缺失 然後你們報告"},{"start":6239.13,"end":6241.13,"text":"也沒有講這個缺失是什麼"},{"start":6241.13,"end":6243.13,"text":"你們還只是說這是一個非常成功的"},{"start":6243.13,"end":6245.13,"text":"但事實上呢"},{"start":6245.13,"end":6247.13,"text":"你們航程的規劃執行費是"},{"start":6247.13,"end":6249.13,"text":"1150萬"},{"start":6249.13,"end":6251.13,"text":"然後州體內部結構"},{"start":6251.13,"end":6253.13,"text":"遭海浪嚴重的"},{"start":6253.13,"end":6255.13,"text":"破壞"},{"start":6255.13,"end":6257.13,"text":"船板的座位也被沖走了"},{"start":6257.13,"end":6259.13,"text":"然後船體"},{"start":6259.13,"end":6261.13,"text":"持續的在進水"},{"start":6261.13,"end":6263.13,"text":"所以呢就沒有辦法的"},{"start":6263.13,"end":6265.13,"text":"划行了 請問一下你們挑戰的是黑潮啊"},{"start":6267.76,"end":6269.76,"text":"黑潮不是那麼容易的"},{"start":6269.76,"end":6271.76,"text":"你去Google一下黑潮"},{"start":6271.76,"end":6273.76,"text":"AI怎麼告訴你啊"},{"start":6273.73,"end":6275.73,"text":"他的潮流是非常險峻的"},{"start":6275.73,"end":6277.73,"text":"哪是你們這樣子"},{"start":6277.73,"end":6279.73,"text":"可以草草耍帥"},{"start":6279.73,"end":6281.73,"text":"當然會碰到無法繼續"},{"start":6281.73,"end":6283.73,"text":"划行 然後花了"},{"start":6283.73,"end":6285.73,"text":"1000多萬的規劃 你們"},{"start":6285.73,"end":6287.73,"text":"卻連最安全"},{"start":6287.73,"end":6289.73,"text":"還有應變都沒有做好"},{"start":6289.73,"end":6291.73,"text":"請問這是成功嗎"},{"start":6291.73,"end":6293.73,"text":"在今天所有的檢討報告裡面"},{"start":6293.73,"end":6295.73,"text":"你們也沒有寫啊 未來你們"},{"start":6295.73,"end":6297.73,"text":"如果還要再做的話 你們還會"},{"start":6297.73,"end":6299.73,"text":"面對同樣的問題啊"},{"start":6299.73,"end":6301.73,"text":"然後你們原文會給我"},{"start":6301.73,"end":6303.73,"text":"報告是說你們航程未完成"},{"start":6303.73,"end":6305.73,"text":"是因為"},{"start":6305.73,"end":6307.73,"text":"護航的船"},{"start":6307.73,"end":6309.73,"text":"叫做青美號"},{"start":6309.73,"end":6311.73,"text":"他的發電機故障啦"},{"start":6311.73,"end":6313.73,"text":"請問一下到底是發電機故障"},{"start":6313.73,"end":6315.73,"text":"還是我們這個船體進水"},{"start":6316.92,"end":6318.92,"text":"各位報告這個航行當然是"},{"start":6318.92,"end":6320.92,"text":"我們做的非常充分的"},{"start":6320.92,"end":6322.92,"text":"這個安全評估跟規劃"},{"start":6322.92,"end":6324.92,"text":"讓人不知道挑戰黑潮是一件非常"},{"start":6324.92,"end":6326.92,"text":"嚴重的事情嗎 達瑞族的族人"},{"start":6326.92,"end":6328.92,"text":"的前輩 祖先應該都清楚知道啊"},{"start":6328.92,"end":6330.92,"text":"可能跟我們計畫上當然"},{"start":6330.92,"end":6332.92,"text":"有一點落差 這個也是"},{"start":6332.92,"end":6334.92,"text":"請問一下這樣子的一個變化"},{"start":6334.92,"end":6336.92,"text":"有沒有在你們的規劃跟討論"},{"start":6336.92,"end":6338.92,"text":"範圍之內 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:6766.29,"text":"那我們現在在判斷梅山可能就沒辦法做"},{"start":6766.29,"end":6768.29,"text":"好的"},{"start":6768.29,"end":6770.29,"text":"因為時間的關係我們不希望這延宕10年了"},{"start":6770.29,"end":6772.29,"text":"這是族人的收拾權益"},{"start":6772.29,"end":6774.29,"text":"另外不好意思"},{"start":6774.29,"end":6776.29,"text":"稍微再給我一點點時間"},{"start":6776.29,"end":6778.29,"text":"我要問的是今天因為我們有"},{"start":6778.29,"end":6780.29,"text":"原住民基本法的宣法"},{"start":6780.29,"end":6782.29,"text":"好那麼這個法"},{"start":6782.29,"end":6784.29,"text":"從94年我上任以後"},{"start":6784.29,"end":6786.29,"text":"我們推動到現在沒有機會"},{"start":6786.29,"end":6788.29,"text":"依照現在族人的需求"},{"start":6788.29,"end":6790.29,"text":"我們來通膛檢討"},{"start":6790.29,"end":6792.29,"text":"今天終於有了"},{"start":6792.29,"end":6794.29,"text":"那麼我呢"},{"start":6794.29,"end":6796.29,"text":"也提出了15條的修正條文"},{"start":6796.29,"end":6798.29,"text":"預戰全法的四成"},{"start":6798.29,"end":6800.29,"text":"這涵蓋了民族會議"},{"start":6800.29,"end":6802.29,"text":"自治制度"},{"start":6802.29,"end":6804.29,"text":"綜合發展基金跟傳統領域"},{"start":6804.29,"end":6806.29,"text":"還有都會原住民的權益"},{"start":6806.29,"end":6808.29,"text":"等等重要議題"},{"start":6808.29,"end":6810.29,"text":"那以下副主委原民會你們支持嗎"},{"start":6811.51,"end":6813.51,"text":"你們支持修法嗎"},{"start":6813.57,"end":6815.57,"text":"支持但是有些條文我們都有在檢視"},{"start":6815.57,"end":6817.57,"text":"那到時候我們再逐條審查"},{"start":6817.57,"end":6819.57,"text":"好沒問題"},{"start":6819.57,"end":6821.57,"text":"好我今天要先跟你講的是"},{"start":6821.57,"end":6823.57,"text":"我一直在講的綜合發展基金"},{"start":6823.57,"end":6825.57,"text":"我要請教你三個問題"},{"start":6825.57,"end":6827.57,"text":"很快很快第一個"},{"start":6827.57,"end":6829.57,"text":"有人認為綜合發展基金目前的累積短錯了"},{"start":6829.57,"end":6831.57,"text":"68.7億"},{"start":6831.57,"end":6833.57,"text":"是因為原民會你今年不善造成的"},{"start":6833.57,"end":6835.57,"text":"你同意這樣的說法嗎"},{"start":6838.37,"end":6840.37,"text":"我想主要還是進發補償的"},{"start":6840.37,"end":6842.37,"text":"所以是你們經營不善造成的嗎"},{"start":6844.99,"end":6846.99,"text":"累積短錯那麼多錢"},{"start":6846.99,"end":6848.99,"text":"應該不是啦"},{"start":6848.99,"end":6850.99,"text":"主要還是進發補償的機會"},{"start":6850.99,"end":6852.99,"text":"好第二"},{"start":6852.99,"end":6854.99,"text":"有人認為這個基金的業務不多"},{"start":6854.99,"end":6856.99,"text":"所以呢不需要每年"},{"start":6856.99,"end":6858.99,"text":"撥補23億"},{"start":6858.99,"end":6860.99,"text":"你同意嗎"},{"start":6862.13,"end":6866.13,"text":"我覺得依法應該要到多少的經費"},{"start":6866.13,"end":6868.13,"text":"很好尤其115年的時候"},{"start":6868.13,"end":6870.13,"text":"我做過主決議"},{"start":6870.13,"end":6872.13,"text":"希望我們的行政院"},{"start":6872.13,"end":6874.13,"text":"每年能夠23億"},{"start":6874.13,"end":6876.13,"text":"撥補進來"},{"start":6876.13,"end":6878.13,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6878.13,"end":6880.13,"text":"好第三個也有人認為呢"},{"start":6880.13,"end":6882.13,"text":"未來兩年原本要還給"},{"start":6882.13,"end":6884.13,"text":"族人的63億"},{"start":6884.13,"end":6886.13,"text":"他只要還10億就可以了"},{"start":6886.13,"end":6888.13,"text":"原民會你同意這件事情嗎"},{"start":6889.54,"end":6893.54,"text":"我們是持續跟主總這邊來協調說"},{"start":6893.54,"end":6895.54,"text":"因為當時也有立法院的決議"},{"start":6895.54,"end":6897.54,"text":"我們希望能夠儘快的"},{"start":6897.54,"end":6899.54,"text":"很好我剛剛以上講的這三個"},{"start":6899.54,"end":6901.54,"text":"我的問題全部都是行政院的見解"},{"start":6901.54,"end":6903.54,"text":"行政院的秘書長"},{"start":6903.54,"end":6905.54,"text":"就在這個地方"},{"start":6905.54,"end":6907.54,"text":"回答我這樣的問題"},{"start":6908.13,"end":6910.13,"text":"當然主計總處說"},{"start":6910.29,"end":6914.29,"text":"每年年年還給族人10億就好了"},{"start":6914.29,"end":6916.29,"text":"當然你也說了這不符合"},{"start":6916.29,"end":6918.29,"text":"立法院的主決議這個主決議"},{"start":6918.29,"end":6920.29,"text":"也是我做的"},{"start":6920.29,"end":6922.29,"text":"所以我可以在這邊毫不客氣的說"},{"start":6922.29,"end":6924.29,"text":"行政院"},{"start":6924.29,"end":6926.29,"text":"你們就是要霸凌族人"},{"start":6926.29,"end":6928.29,"text":"你們就是在"},{"start":6928.29,"end":6930.29,"text":"霸凌原民會"},{"start":6930.37,"end":6932.37,"text":"原民會給你們那麼多的公文"},{"start":6932.37,"end":6934.37,"text":"再次的請求你們"},{"start":6934.37,"end":6936.37,"text":"請你們撥補完整"},{"start":6936.37,"end":6938.37,"text":"中發基金的預算"},{"start":6938.37,"end":6940.37,"text":"要不然中發基金"},{"start":6940.37,"end":6942.37,"text":"真的不能夠做事了"},{"start":6942.37,"end":6944.37,"text":"但是他只給10億"},{"start":6944.37,"end":6946.37,"text":"我希望今天"},{"start":6946.37,"end":6948.37,"text":"這是我在這裡最後一次的質詢"},{"start":6948.37,"end":6950.37,"text":"行政院長沒有聽到"},{"start":6950.37,"end":6952.37,"text":"我今天在這裡質詢的話"},{"start":6952.37,"end":6954.37,"text":"還有族人"},{"start":6954.37,"end":6956.37,"text":"我們應該憤怒"},{"start":6957.51,"end":6959.51,"text":"立法院的主決議"},{"start":6959.51,"end":6961.51,"text":"而且這個基金"},{"start":6961.51,"end":6963.51,"text":"剛剛副主委講過了"},{"start":6963.51,"end":6965.51,"text":"是我們族人"},{"start":6965.39,"end":6967.39,"text":"立法通過的禁法補償"},{"start":6967.39,"end":6969.39,"text":"本來是3萬塊"},{"start":6969.39,"end":6971.39,"text":"現在多了3萬變6萬"},{"start":6971.39,"end":6973.39,"text":"然後"},{"start":6973.46,"end":6975.46,"text":"行政院不想要旅行"},{"start":6975.46,"end":6977.46,"text":"所以就在中和發展基金裡面"},{"start":6977.46,"end":6979.46,"text":"給我們研發嗎"},{"start":6980.44,"end":6982.44,"text":"然後修理我們的原民會嗎"},{"start":6982.44,"end":6984.44,"text":"讓原民會在其他的"},{"start":6984.44,"end":6986.44,"text":"業務上不能夠做事嗎"},{"start":6986.44,"end":6988.44,"text":"是這樣子嗎"},{"start":6988.44,"end":6990.44,"text":"如果是這樣子的話行政院長"},{"start":6990.44,"end":6992.44,"text":"你太可惡了"},{"start":6992.04,"end":6994.04,"text":"我希望今天"},{"start":6994.04,"end":6996.04,"text":"這也是我最後在這邊講到中發基金的"},{"start":6996.04,"end":6998.04,"text":"最後一次質詢"},{"start":6998.04,"end":7000.04,"text":"原民會要硬起來"},{"start":7000.04,"end":7002.04,"text":"您剛剛說過了主決議已經做了"},{"start":7002.04,"end":7004.04,"text":"中和發展基金"},{"start":7004.04,"end":7006.04,"text":"本來就應該要撥補"},{"start":7007.48,"end":7009.48,"text":"完整"},{"start":7008.54,"end":7010.54,"text":"如果我們今天行政院"},{"start":7010.54,"end":7012.54,"text":"不撥補完整"},{"start":7012.54,"end":7014.54,"text":"那"},{"start":7014.46,"end":7016.46,"text":"做多少的主決議也沒有用"},{"start":7016.46,"end":7018.46,"text":"就算我在原基法裡面"},{"start":7018.46,"end":7020.46,"text":"要修這個"},{"start":7020.46,"end":7022.46,"text":"我相信他也會不復屬"},{"start":7023.07,"end":7025.07,"text":"所以原民會我們一起加油"},{"start":7025.07,"end":7027.07,"text":"跟院裡面溝通"},{"start":7027.07,"end":7029.07,"text":"我們一起加油好不好"},{"start":7029.07,"end":7031.07,"text":"相信院裡面也會考量原民會的處理"},{"start":7031.07,"end":7032.07,"text":"希望"},{"start":7032.07,"end":7034.07,"text":"你要不要這個大聲的跟行政院長喊話"},{"start":7034.07,"end":7036.07,"text":"卓院長"},{"start":7036.07,"end":7038.07,"text":"希望你聽到我們的聲音"},{"start":7038.07,"end":7040.07,"text":"中和發展基金麻煩撥補完整"},{"start":7040.07,"end":7042.07,"text":"我是認為說院長其實也會努力原民會"},{"start":7042.07,"end":7044.07,"text":"他的需求啦他會按照我們的需求"},{"start":7044.07,"end":7046.07,"text":"來配合啦"},{"start":7046.07,"end":7048.07,"text":"我剛剛已經問你三個問題了"},{"start":7048.07,"end":7050.07,"text":"你都說第一不是原民會的責任"},{"start":7050.07,"end":7052.07,"text":"不是你們經營不善"},{"start":7052.07,"end":7054.07,"text":"不是因為你們基金業務不多"},{"start":7054.07,"end":7056.07,"text":"所以不需要這個錢"},{"start":7056.07,"end":7058.07,"text":"然後"},{"start":7057.07,"end":7059.07,"text":"主決議也做了"},{"start":7059.07,"end":7061.07,"text":"你剛剛也回答我的問題了請勇敢地跟"},{"start":7061.81,"end":7065.81,"text":"卓院長說請你不要再霸凌族人了好嗎"},{"start":7065.81,"end":7067.81,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7074.06,"end":7076.06,"text":"好下一位請林一金委員發言資訊"},{"start":7079.7,"end":7081.7,"text":"好"},{"start":7090.03,"end":7092.03,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":7092.03,"end":7094.03,"text":"有請副主委"},{"start":7092.81,"end":7094.81,"text":"原民會副主委"},{"start":7097.15,"end":7099.15,"text":"委員好"},{"start":7099.11,"end":7101.11,"text":"副主委好"},{"start":7101.11,"end":7103.11,"text":"今天很高興看到本席長期關心的"},{"start":7103.11,"end":7105.11,"text":"希拉亞族"},{"start":7105.11,"end":7107.11,"text":"證明終於要在今天"},{"start":7107.11,"end":7109.11,"text":"實現了"},{"start":7109.11,"end":7111.11,"text":"等等行政院"},{"start":7111.11,"end":7113.11,"text":"所以委員會過去嗎"},{"start":7113.11,"end":7115.11,"text":"可是我們現在正在吵架"},{"start":7115.11,"end":7117.11,"text":"不曉得"},{"start":7117.11,"end":7119.11,"text":"等一下民族核定的典禮"},{"start":7119.11,"end":7121.11,"text":"我也會希望去見證"},{"start":7121.11,"end":7123.11,"text":"那今天我就儘速"},{"start":7123.11,"end":7125.11,"text":"來問幾個問題"},{"start":7125.11,"end":7127.11,"text":"就是有關於整體比姆族群"},{"start":7127.11,"end":7129.11,"text":"那還有你未來一些權益的"},{"start":7129.11,"end":7131.11,"text":"後續權益的問題"},{"start":7131.11,"end":7133.11,"text":"首先就是"},{"start":7133.11,"end":7135.11,"text":"希拉亞族人"},{"start":7135.11,"end":7137.11,"text":"他接下來要面臨登記身份的流程"},{"start":7137.11,"end":7139.11,"text":"不過我們可以看到"},{"start":7139.11,"end":7141.11,"text":"像台南市"},{"start":7141.11,"end":7143.11,"text":"他已經早就進行了熟住劑"},{"start":7143.11,"end":7145.11,"text":"整個台南市統計"},{"start":7145.11,"end":7147.11,"text":"到今年六月底"},{"start":7147.11,"end":7149.11,"text":"有熟住劑的"},{"start":7149.11,"end":7151.11,"text":"有1萬1828人"},{"start":7151.11,"end":7153.11,"text":"那本席的疑問是說"},{"start":7153.11,"end":7155.11,"text":"那這些人再來還要再跑一趟嗎"},{"start":7155.11,"end":7157.11,"text":"那還有就是說"},{"start":7157.11,"end":7159.11,"text":"那之前本席有參加"},{"start":7159.11,"end":7161.11,"text":"這個新化的這個希拉亞族的活動"},{"start":7161.11,"end":7163.11,"text":"那時候台南市的原民會的主委"},{"start":7163.11,"end":7165.11,"text":"白惠蘭主委有說"},{"start":7165.11,"end":7167.11,"text":"他說希拉亞族"},{"start":7167.11,"end":7169.11,"text":"已經是台南市定"},{"start":7169.11,"end":7171.11,"text":"的原住民"},{"start":7171.11,"end":7173.11,"text":"那住劑的資料是同步建置在"},{"start":7173.11,"end":7175.11,"text":"戶政系統"},{"start":7175.11,"end":7177.11,"text":"那總統頒布後"},{"start":7177.11,"end":7179.11,"text":"就是所謂的法律原住民"},{"start":7179.11,"end":7181.11,"text":"就會有法律保障"},{"start":7181.11,"end":7183.11,"text":"就會配合中央的政策"},{"start":7183.11,"end":7185.11,"text":"那你記得會直接轉正"},{"start":7185.11,"end":7187.11,"text":"那本席的理解是"},{"start":7187.11,"end":7189.11,"text":"這會省去在民族合併"},{"start":7189.11,"end":7191.11,"text":"還要再跑一趟戶政事務所"},{"start":7191.11,"end":7193.11,"text":"再去登記這些程序"},{"start":7193.11,"end":7195.11,"text":"那對主委當然是比較便利"},{"start":7195.11,"end":7197.11,"text":"所以"},{"start":7197.11,"end":7199.11,"text":"中央的原民會是不是有辦法"},{"start":7199.11,"end":7201.11,"text":"就是要不要來"},{"start":7201.11,"end":7203.11,"text":"研擬一些辦法來簡化"},{"start":7203.11,"end":7205.11,"text":"申請跟登記的流程"},{"start":7205.11,"end":7207.11,"text":"並對外說明"},{"start":7207.11,"end":7209.11,"text":"副主委"},{"start":7209.11,"end":7211.11,"text":"事實上我剛也有報告說我們事實上開過兩次"},{"start":7211.11,"end":7213.11,"text":"的這種會議就是跟地方"},{"start":7213.11,"end":7215.11,"text":"戶政單位要登記的"},{"start":7215.11,"end":7217.11,"text":"這個程序那簡化流程"},{"start":7217.11,"end":7219.11,"text":"當然也是我們在討論的議題裡面"},{"start":7219.11,"end":7221.11,"text":"這裡面有一些就是說"},{"start":7221.11,"end":7223.11,"text":"在當時在台南有登記的他們"},{"start":7223.11,"end":7225.11,"text":"並不全然都是希臘亞族"},{"start":7225.11,"end":7227.11,"text":"所以可能"},{"start":7227.11,"end":7229.11,"text":"也可能不是像委員講說"},{"start":7229.11,"end":7231.11,"text":"全部的都一起都可以做什麼樣的"},{"start":7231.11,"end":7233.11,"text":"當然我們會從簡變的方式去"},{"start":7233.11,"end":7235.11,"text":"去進行看"},{"start":7235.11,"end":7237.11,"text":"簡輕那個"},{"start":7237.11,"end":7239.11,"text":"那個族人在這個過程"},{"start":7239.11,"end":7241.11,"text":"所以你的意思是說他們還要再做一次"},{"start":7241.11,"end":7243.11,"text":"沒有我們會看"},{"start":7243.11,"end":7245.11,"text":"看是什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":7245.11,"end":7247.11,"text":"事實上這個簡"},{"start":7247.11,"end":7249.11,"text":"簡變的這件事情我們事實上有在考慮"},{"start":7249.11,"end":7251.11,"text":"這樣應該怎麼樣讓他們更"},{"start":7251.11,"end":7253.11,"text":"不用那麼那麼複雜來做"},{"start":7253.11,"end":7255.11,"text":"這個登記的動作"},{"start":7255.11,"end":7257.11,"text":"好謝謝就是本席建議就是還盡量以"},{"start":7257.11,"end":7259.11,"text":"變名為主啦那也請原民會"},{"start":7259.11,"end":7261.11,"text":"思考一下就是什麼跟台南市"},{"start":7261.11,"end":7263.11,"text":"然後屏東市他們這些有這個"},{"start":7263.11,"end":7265.11,"text":"先進行這個戶政資料"},{"start":7265.11,"end":7267.11,"text":"的登記有熟住劑的這些"},{"start":7267.11,"end":7269.11,"text":"那現在先是也溝通一下好不好"},{"start":7269.11,"end":7271.11,"text":"因為這次大概就是花蓮"},{"start":7271.11,"end":7273.11,"text":"台東屏東台南"},{"start":7273.11,"end":7275.11,"text":"好像再上去一點"},{"start":7275.11,"end":7277.11,"text":"這個區塊大概都會有這個"},{"start":7277.11,"end":7279.11,"text":"身分登記的問題"},{"start":7279.11,"end":7281.11,"text":"跟地方政府要做一些溝通有一致性的做法"},{"start":7281.11,"end":7283.11,"text":"那好下一個議題就是"},{"start":7283.11,"end":7285.11,"text":"有關於教育喔"},{"start":7285.11,"end":7287.11,"text":"經過了解就是除了台南市政府"},{"start":7287.11,"end":7289.11,"text":"已經完成這個新版的原住民族"},{"start":7289.11,"end":7291.11,"text":"學生獎助學金"},{"start":7291.11,"end":7293.11,"text":"申請作業須知"},{"start":7293.11,"end":7295.11,"text":"的整並那明確並入"},{"start":7295.11,"end":7297.11,"text":"這個平埔原住民族學生外"},{"start":7297.11,"end":7299.11,"text":"那其他地方政府"},{"start":7299.11,"end":7301.11,"text":"都辦都還在救治嘛"},{"start":7301.11,"end":7303.11,"text":"那沒有將這個平埔原住民族"},{"start":7303.11,"end":7305.11,"text":"的權益納入這個獎補助"},{"start":7305.11,"end":7307.11,"text":"的制度那全國現在各縣市"},{"start":7307.11,"end":7309.11,"text":"這個存在的標準不一"},{"start":7309.11,"end":7311.11,"text":"那講助辦法也不同"},{"start":7311.11,"end":7313.11,"text":"那恐怕會造成跨縣市的"},{"start":7313.11,"end":7315.11,"text":"學生這個權益有落差"},{"start":7315.11,"end":7317.11,"text":"那也嚴重違反"},{"start":7317.11,"end":7319.11,"text":"所謂的憲判意旨跟立法"},{"start":7319.11,"end":7321.11,"text":"目的譬如說"},{"start":7321.11,"end":7323.11,"text":"台北市的高雄市"},{"start":7323.11,"end":7325.11,"text":"高雄市的北邊的行政區"},{"start":7325.11,"end":7327.11,"text":"像這個茄町"},{"start":7327.11,"end":7329.11,"text":"湖內它很多的學生"},{"start":7329.11,"end":7331.11,"text":"其實都到台南市來讀書"},{"start":7331.11,"end":7333.11,"text":"可是他們可能因為沒有"},{"start":7333.11,"end":7335.11,"text":"涉及到台南市"},{"start":7335.11,"end":7337.11,"text":"那高雄又沒有針對平埔原住民族"},{"start":7337.11,"end":7339.11,"text":"設這個獎助學金"},{"start":7339.11,"end":7341.11,"text":"那就會產生落差"},{"start":7341.11,"end":7343.11,"text":"我舉這個例子"},{"start":7343.11,"end":7345.11,"text":"所以本席認為說我們人民會"},{"start":7345.11,"end":7347.11,"text":"作為主管機關我們不能坐視這個地方"},{"start":7347.11,"end":7349.11,"text":"制度來有點失衡"},{"start":7349.11,"end":7351.11,"text":"我們應該要主導全國"},{"start":7351.11,"end":7353.11,"text":"一致性的這個指引"},{"start":7353.11,"end":7355.11,"text":"或者是法治協調來為附這個"},{"start":7355.11,"end":7357.11,"text":"平埔原住民他這個學生"},{"start":7357.11,"end":7359.11,"text":"獎助學金的這個權益"},{"start":7359.11,"end":7361.11,"text":"那雖然這是地方事務"},{"start":7361.11,"end":7363.11,"text":"可是我們也是要建議原民會"},{"start":7363.11,"end":7365.11,"text":"我們應該要督導跟來"},{"start":7365.11,"end":7367.11,"text":"進一協調各地方政府"},{"start":7367.11,"end":7369.11,"text":"這個原民"},{"start":7369.11,"end":7371.11,"text":"這些原民的相關局處"},{"start":7371.11,"end":7373.11,"text":"我覺得還是建議可以比照"},{"start":7373.11,"end":7375.11,"text":"台南市政府的模式"},{"start":7375.11,"end":7377.11,"text":"那由原民會來進行所謂的"},{"start":7377.11,"end":7379.11,"text":"必要的這個行政指導"},{"start":7379.11,"end":7381.11,"text":"市長你對於這個議題"},{"start":7381.11,"end":7383.11,"text":"副主委你怎麼看"},{"start":7383.11,"end":7385.11,"text":"我想我們會彙整相關的這個訊息"},{"start":7385.11,"end":7387.11,"text":"不管台南已經發了或其他縣市"},{"start":7387.11,"end":7389.11,"text":"是什麼情況這裡面一個很重要"},{"start":7389.11,"end":7391.11,"text":"他是涉及到地方制度法"},{"start":7391.11,"end":7393.11,"text":"他們願意發以現在的法條"},{"start":7393.11,"end":7395.11,"text":"來講按照平埔主體"},{"start":7395.11,"end":7397.11,"text":"身份法的23條我們是要再來"},{"start":7397.11,"end":7399.11,"text":"做相關權益的這個"},{"start":7399.11,"end":7401.11,"text":"規範啦那這個地方"},{"start":7401.11,"end":7403.11,"text":"他們有的人已經先行做這些"},{"start":7403.11,"end":7405.11,"text":"我們當然是支持"},{"start":7405.11,"end":7407.11,"text":"但是其他縣市是不是"},{"start":7407.11,"end":7409.11,"text":"應該比照辦理我們再來協調"},{"start":7409.11,"end":7411.11,"text":"因為這個關係到"},{"start":7411.11,"end":7413.11,"text":"財源的問題因為人數不曉得"},{"start":7413.11,"end":7415.11,"text":"多少你像說你們都要辦"},{"start":7415.11,"end":7417.11,"text":"等一下說進來說3萬人都說我不可能有這個錢"},{"start":7417.11,"end":7419.11,"text":"現在不知道會有多少"},{"start":7419.11,"end":7421.11,"text":"所以這個我們會整理"},{"start":7421.11,"end":7423.11,"text":"以後然後再跟地方政府"},{"start":7423.11,"end":7425.11,"text":"來協調說如果他們要做這件事"},{"start":7425.11,"end":7427.11,"text":"你可以比照台南市來先行來做"},{"start":7427.11,"end":7429.11,"text":"如果說可以知道人數的話"},{"start":7429.11,"end":7431.11,"text":"可以先做這件事情"},{"start":7431.11,"end":7433.11,"text":"我們來研議"},{"start":7433.11,"end":7435.11,"text":"謝謝副主委謝謝好謝謝主席"},{"start":7442.51,"end":7444.51,"text":"我們下一位"},{"start":7444.51,"end":7446.51,"text":"先跟委員報告"},{"start":7446.51,"end":7448.51,"text":"代李博義委員詢答完後處理臨時提案"},{"start":7448.51,"end":7450.51,"text":"我們下一位請吳七鳴委員發言質詢"},{"start":7461.7,"end":7463.7,"text":"好主席我們一位同仁"},{"start":7463.7,"end":7465.7,"text":"請我們的副主委"},{"start":7468.57,"end":7470.57,"text":"委員好"},{"start":7471.37,"end":7473.37,"text":"當初我們三陰縣"},{"start":7473.37,"end":7475.37,"text":"三陰捷運縣當初我們共同努力爭取"},{"start":7475.37,"end":7477.37,"text":"就是原住民的圖騰"},{"start":7477.37,"end":7479.37,"text":"打造一個原住民的圖騰"},{"start":7479.37,"end":7481.37,"text":"就是在我們的台北大學"},{"start":7481.37,"end":7483.37,"text":"那現在都已經設立了"},{"start":7483.37,"end":7485.37,"text":"那整個車廂"},{"start":7485.37,"end":7487.37,"text":"外面的圖騰"},{"start":7487.37,"end":7489.37,"text":"的彩繪類車"},{"start":7489.37,"end":7491.37,"text":"也都一一實現"},{"start":7491.37,"end":7493.37,"text":"那我們在我們新北"},{"start":7493.37,"end":7495.37,"text":"新北目前"},{"start":7495.37,"end":7497.37,"text":"搭乘那個"},{"start":7497.37,"end":7499.37,"text":"T-Pass"},{"start":7499.37,"end":7501.37,"text":"T-Pass"},{"start":7501.37,"end":7503.37,"text":"那個人數現在北北基"},{"start":7503.37,"end":7505.37,"text":"所調的資料"},{"start":7505.37,"end":7507.37,"text":"有五十多萬人"},{"start":7507.37,"end":7509.37,"text":"那未來我們新北市"},{"start":7509.37,"end":7511.37,"text":"有很多的捷運路線"},{"start":7511.37,"end":7513.37,"text":"那未來是不是可以朝"},{"start":7513.37,"end":7515.37,"text":"三陰縣這個"},{"start":7515.37,"end":7517.37,"text":"路線的圖騰"},{"start":7517.37,"end":7519.37,"text":"還有那個彩繪"},{"start":7519.37,"end":7521.37,"text":"是不是可以比照"},{"start":7521.37,"end":7523.37,"text":"我們來努力來研議看"},{"start":7523.37,"end":7525.37,"text":"朝這個方向來做"},{"start":7525.37,"end":7527.37,"text":"因為這是先打"},{"start":7527.37,"end":7529.37,"text":"我們原住民是最快的"},{"start":7529.37,"end":7531.37,"text":"你看啊"},{"start":7531.37,"end":7533.37,"text":"透過這個大眾捷運系統是最方便的"},{"start":7533.37,"end":7535.37,"text":"對 你看一個月就五十多萬"},{"start":7535.37,"end":7537.37,"text":"那五十多萬人在搭乘"},{"start":7537.37,"end":7539.37,"text":"那真的是"},{"start":7539.65,"end":7541.65,"text":"滿驚人的"},{"start":7541.65,"end":7543.65,"text":"那未來你要推廣原住民的文化也好"},{"start":7543.65,"end":7545.65,"text":"原住民"},{"start":7545.65,"end":7547.65,"text":"的種種"},{"start":7547.65,"end":7549.65,"text":"的先導都是非常"},{"start":7549.65,"end":7551.65,"text":"快的速度"},{"start":7551.65,"end":7553.65,"text":"那未來應該是朝這個方向來努力"},{"start":7553.65,"end":7555.65,"text":"好 我們努力 謝謝委員指導"},{"start":7555.65,"end":7557.65,"text":"那本席比較關心的就是"},{"start":7557.65,"end":7559.65,"text":"我們以前我們都常常"},{"start":7559.65,"end":7561.65,"text":"在推動的"},{"start":7561.65,"end":7563.65,"text":"就是一個機會所"},{"start":7564.5,"end":7566.5,"text":"那在新北我們原住民"},{"start":7566.5,"end":7568.5,"text":"的人數"},{"start":7568.5,"end":7570.5,"text":"也算是滿多 有六萬多人"},{"start":7570.5,"end":7572.5,"text":"那在我的選區"},{"start":7572.5,"end":7574.5,"text":"我的選區密集度"},{"start":7574.5,"end":7576.5,"text":"也算是非常高"},{"start":7576.5,"end":7578.5,"text":"那我們現在是在"},{"start":7578.5,"end":7580.5,"text":"三峽的北大"},{"start":7580.5,"end":7582.5,"text":"那邊有設立一個"},{"start":7582.5,"end":7584.5,"text":"就是我們的"},{"start":7584.5,"end":7586.5,"text":"園域廣場"},{"start":7586.58,"end":7588.58,"text":"是不是 是"},{"start":7589.65,"end":7591.65,"text":"那園域廣場"},{"start":7592.7,"end":7594.7,"text":"在土城這一邊"},{"start":7594.7,"end":7596.7,"text":"還是樹林這一邊"},{"start":7596.7,"end":7598.7,"text":"是不是我們未來還是要每一個地方"},{"start":7598.7,"end":7600.7,"text":"都有一個園域廣場"},{"start":7600.7,"end":7602.7,"text":"讓我們原住民"},{"start":7602.7,"end":7604.7,"text":"不用每次的集會"},{"start":7604.7,"end":7606.7,"text":"每次的活動都要"},{"start":7606.7,"end":7608.7,"text":"透過我們的理辦公室"},{"start":7608.7,"end":7610.7,"text":"這邊去跟人家"},{"start":7610.55,"end":7612.55,"text":"那你要是我們原住民"},{"start":7612.55,"end":7614.55,"text":"至於有個廣場"},{"start":7614.55,"end":7616.55,"text":"至於可以來那邊辦活動"},{"start":7616.55,"end":7618.55,"text":"我認為這是應該比較適當"},{"start":7620.7,"end":7622.7,"text":"是 原則上"},{"start":7622.7,"end":7624.7,"text":"要廣場的設立當然是"},{"start":7624.7,"end":7626.7,"text":"族人應該會有這方面的需求"},{"start":7626.7,"end":7628.7,"text":"這是無庸置疑 但是可能要考量"},{"start":7628.7,"end":7630.7,"text":"那個位置有沒有"},{"start":7630.7,"end":7632.7,"text":"適當的位置 另外就是說族人有多少"},{"start":7632.7,"end":7634.7,"text":"在那個區域 我想這都是未來"},{"start":7634.7,"end":7636.7,"text":"要去做一個"},{"start":7636.7,"end":7638.7,"text":"爬梳的一些數據來"},{"start":7638.7,"end":7640.7,"text":"考量說要設在什麼地方"},{"start":7640.7,"end":7642.7,"text":"而且它事實上這個設了以後"},{"start":7642.7,"end":7644.7,"text":"族人的可及性可利用性是非常"},{"start":7644.7,"end":7646.7,"text":"高的 那這個設了才會有意義"},{"start":7646.7,"end":7648.7,"text":"那朝這個方向去"},{"start":7648.7,"end":7650.7,"text":"進行我們會努力啦"},{"start":7650.51,"end":7652.51,"text":"當時我們設立的是透過"},{"start":7652.51,"end":7654.51,"text":"我們當地的居民"},{"start":7654.51,"end":7656.51,"text":"都可以共同來使用"},{"start":7656.51,"end":7660.51,"text":"但是我們原住民是優先的使用"},{"start":7660.51,"end":7664.51,"text":"管理上也是我們原住民來做管理"},{"start":7665.63,"end":7667.63,"text":"那你整個我們的"},{"start":7667.63,"end":7669.63,"text":"地方上大家都可以"},{"start":7669.63,"end":7671.63,"text":"來出借 那這樣就可以說"},{"start":7671.63,"end":7673.63,"text":"不會像以前的文字館"},{"start":7673.63,"end":7675.63,"text":"這是一個非常"},{"start":7675.63,"end":7677.63,"text":"大家共同"},{"start":7677.63,"end":7679.63,"text":"共同去使用"},{"start":7679.63,"end":7681.63,"text":"那使用率都會很高"},{"start":7683.42,"end":7685.42,"text":"那未來是不是可以朝這個方向來做"},{"start":7685.42,"end":7687.42,"text":"好 我們朝這個方向來研議"},{"start":7687.42,"end":7689.42,"text":"來調查相關數據"},{"start":7689.42,"end":7691.42,"text":"看有沒有適合的點"},{"start":7691.42,"end":7693.42,"text":"我覺得那個點很重要"},{"start":7693.42,"end":7695.42,"text":"因為有時候土地在都市地區土地要取得"},{"start":7695.42,"end":7697.42,"text":"蠻困難的"},{"start":7696.9,"end":7698.9,"text":"對 因為現在在我們山英"},{"start":7698.9,"end":7700.9,"text":"山英這個季度"},{"start":7700.9,"end":7702.9,"text":"真的是原住民非常多"},{"start":7702.78,"end":7704.78,"text":"那原住民非常多"},{"start":7704.78,"end":7706.78,"text":"像是士林還有我們土城"},{"start":7706.78,"end":7708.78,"text":"那本席這邊是土城"},{"start":7708.78,"end":7710.78,"text":"那土城我們當初在推動原住民公園"},{"start":7710.78,"end":7712.78,"text":"那原住民公園也設立了"},{"start":7712.78,"end":7714.78,"text":"但是就是一個"},{"start":7714.78,"end":7716.78,"text":"延曆廣場"},{"start":7716.78,"end":7718.78,"text":"就是還沒辦法去設立"},{"start":7719.36,"end":7721.36,"text":"這我也是多次"},{"start":7721.36,"end":7723.36,"text":"跟我們原民會來做爭取"},{"start":7723.36,"end":7725.36,"text":"那後來還是沒辦法去"},{"start":7725.36,"end":7727.36,"text":"很順暢的"},{"start":7727.36,"end":7729.36,"text":"來設立"},{"start":7729.36,"end":7731.36,"text":"這一點是我們真的原住民"},{"start":7731.36,"end":7733.36,"text":"我們原委會真的要來做檢討"},{"start":7733.36,"end":7735.36,"text":"好 那事實上"},{"start":7735.36,"end":7737.36,"text":"我們也有相關的計畫目前也在進行"},{"start":7737.36,"end":7739.36,"text":"那剛剛委員提的這個可能在那個計畫裡面"},{"start":7739.36,"end":7741.36,"text":"也有機會來"},{"start":7741.36,"end":7743.36,"text":"使用這個相關預算"},{"start":7743.36,"end":7745.36,"text":"但是要看我剛剛講前面那些評估"},{"start":7745.36,"end":7747.36,"text":"到底有沒有適合的位置"},{"start":7747.36,"end":7749.36,"text":"還有原住民的人口數"},{"start":7749.36,"end":7751.36,"text":"在那個地方有沒有可及性可利用性"},{"start":7751.36,"end":7753.36,"text":"這都是我們要去評估的"},{"start":7753.36,"end":7755.36,"text":"要是人數的話"},{"start":7755.36,"end":7757.36,"text":"土城那邊是絕對"},{"start":7757.36,"end":7759.36,"text":"是沒有問題"},{"start":7758.5,"end":7760.5,"text":"這一點是我們要共同來努力好不好"},{"start":7760.5,"end":7762.5,"text":"好"},{"start":7762.5,"end":7764.5,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7770.43,"end":7772.43,"text":"好抱歉 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在雙向園門口我就忍不住"},{"start":8582.77,"end":8584.77,"text":"跟這個我們的達悟族的"},{"start":8584.77,"end":8586.77,"text":"這個傳統拼板船"},{"start":8586.77,"end":8588.77,"text":"我們的那一條達悟族的那一條船"},{"start":8588.77,"end":8590.77,"text":"拼板舟"},{"start":8590.77,"end":8592.77,"text":"做了合照那也是今天這個專案報告裡面"},{"start":8592.77,"end":8594.77,"text":"有講到我們今年度"},{"start":8594.77,"end":8596.77,"text":"原民會跟海委會合作去"},{"start":8596.77,"end":8598.77,"text":"南島語族的航海計畫"},{"start":8598.77,"end":8600.77,"text":"那從台灣"},{"start":8600.77,"end":8602.77,"text":"這個航海舟到"},{"start":8602.77,"end":8604.77,"text":"菲律賓"},{"start":8604.77,"end":8606.77,"text":"來那個副主委"},{"start":8606.77,"end":8608.77,"text":"這個計畫我也看到包含我們的這個"},{"start":8608.77,"end":8610.77,"text":"國際協議會以及文化部"},{"start":8610.77,"end":8612.77,"text":"也都做了相關的這些記錄"},{"start":8612.77,"end":8614.77,"text":"海委會也都做了這些相關的這些記錄"},{"start":8617.33,"end":8619.33,"text":"這個故事要怎麼樣才會精彩"},{"start":8619.33,"end":8621.33,"text":"那是要基金會董事長來說明"},{"start":8621.33,"end":8623.33,"text":"董事長來說明"},{"start":8625.01,"end":8627.01,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":8627.01,"end":8629.01,"text":"巴丹跟"},{"start":8629.01,"end":8631.01,"text":"蘭嶼的航海"},{"start":8631.01,"end":8633.01,"text":"是整個南島語區擴散的一個"},{"start":8633.01,"end":8635.01,"text":"活的動態"},{"start":8635.01,"end":8637.01,"text":"所以在蘭嶼"},{"start":8637.01,"end":8639.01,"text":"其實已經喊了20幾年"},{"start":8639.01,"end":8641.01,"text":"要划船過去"},{"start":8641.01,"end":8643.01,"text":"那剛剛有委員提到說"},{"start":8643.01,"end":8645.01,"text":"這第一次 有記錄的第一次"},{"start":8645.01,"end":8647.01,"text":"以前不知道怎麼去的"},{"start":8647.01,"end":8649.01,"text":"以前的交流是"},{"start":8649.01,"end":8651.01,"text":"會到桃園再到馬尼拉"},{"start":8651.01,"end":8653.01,"text":"但是我們過去"},{"start":8653.01,"end":8655.01,"text":"我們在海上 我們不划"},{"start":8655.44,"end":8657.44,"text":"眼睛睜開就已經到巴丹島了"},{"start":8657.44,"end":8659.44,"text":"所以那個過去的航線"},{"start":8659.44,"end":8661.44,"text":"是非常非常密切"},{"start":8661.44,"end":8663.44,"text":"不同的兩個國家之後"},{"start":8663.44,"end":8665.44,"text":"我們就斷裂了"},{"start":8665.44,"end":8667.44,"text":"所以這一次的計畫我們的長老"},{"start":8667.44,"end":8669.44,"text":"我們的青年都非常踴躍"},{"start":8669.44,"end":8671.44,"text":"我們本來只要60個划槳手"},{"start":8671.44,"end":8673.44,"text":"報名報到100多個"},{"start":8673.44,"end":8675.44,"text":"到後來叔叔要協調"},{"start":8675.44,"end":8677.44,"text":"弟弟 弟弟要協調表哥"},{"start":8677.44,"end":8679.44,"text":"先讓我划 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我聽你回應前兩句"},{"start":8835.28,"end":8837.28,"text":"我先給你具體建議"},{"start":8837.28,"end":8839.28,"text":"你說跨部會的合作會議"},{"start":8839.28,"end":8841.28,"text":"那個就代表不具體"},{"start":8841.28,"end":8843.28,"text":"合作會議 我給你具體"},{"start":8843.28,"end":8845.28,"text":"的建議 在高雄"},{"start":8845.28,"end":8847.28,"text":"在左營"},{"start":8847.28,"end":8849.28,"text":"我們有相當多的原住民朋友"},{"start":8849.28,"end":8851.28,"text":"他是聚落 居住在"},{"start":8851.28,"end":8853.28,"text":"那裡約有六千人"},{"start":8853.28,"end":8855.28,"text":"就在平山一帶"},{"start":8855.28,"end":8857.28,"text":"那平山這一帶呢 甚至原委會"},{"start":8857.28,"end":8859.28,"text":"也補助了相關的這些"},{"start":8859.28,"end":8861.28,"text":"場地 那做一些修繕"},{"start":8861.28,"end":8863.28,"text":"你知道他離台積電廠區多遠嗎"},{"start":8864.2,"end":8866.2,"text":"不到一公里啊"},{"start":8866.04,"end":8868.04,"text":"不到一公里"},{"start":8868.04,"end":8870.04,"text":"其實那個聚落 這個平山聚落"},{"start":8870.04,"end":8872.04,"text":"他其實就在這一個"},{"start":8872.04,"end":8874.04,"text":"就整個台積電廠區附近"},{"start":8874.04,"end":8876.04,"text":"我很希望你們"},{"start":8876.04,"end":8878.04,"text":"可以就 現在是網站上"},{"start":8878.04,"end":8880.04,"text":"我很希望你們可以就"},{"start":8880.04,"end":8882.04,"text":"實地上 可以跟勞動部"},{"start":8882.04,"end":8884.04,"text":"來做這一個"},{"start":8884.04,"end":8886.04,"text":"原民job"},{"start":8886.04,"end":8888.04,"text":"你們原job這個工作的"},{"start":8888.04,"end":8890.04,"text":"媒合 那可以讓"},{"start":8890.04,"end":8892.04,"text":"我們原民朋友有機會"},{"start":8892.73,"end":8894.73,"text":"可以感受到 我們這個聚落"},{"start":8894.73,"end":8896.73,"text":"我們在高雄左營"},{"start":8896.73,"end":8898.73,"text":"我們這個聚落 居然離半導體產業"},{"start":8898.73,"end":8900.73,"text":"這麼近"},{"start":8901.02,"end":8903.02,"text":"我們有沒有機會進去"},{"start":8903.02,"end":8905.02,"text":"我們要去學什麼有機會進去"},{"start":8905.02,"end":8907.02,"text":"我們要怎麼樣進修有機會進去"},{"start":8907.02,"end":8909.02,"text":"我們如果光是透過勞動部不夠"},{"start":8909.02,"end":8911.02,"text":"我們透過原民會原委會"},{"start":8911.02,"end":8913.02,"text":"我們還可以協助我們的族人"},{"start":8913.02,"end":8915.02,"text":"可以做什麼"},{"start":8915.02,"end":8917.02,"text":"可以有機會 我覺得這個是"},{"start":8917.02,"end":8919.02,"text":"我希望可以務實實際"},{"start":8919.02,"end":8921.02,"text":"的在高雄"},{"start":8921.02,"end":8923.02,"text":"左營來發聲"},{"start":8923.02,"end":8925.02,"text":"這個來 副主委這個請你回應好了"},{"start":8925.02,"end":8927.02,"text":"我先跟委員報告一下"},{"start":8927.02,"end":8929.02,"text":"我們高雄其實也有我們的就業服務站"},{"start":8929.02,"end":8931.02,"text":"對這些AI或遊戲相關的"},{"start":8931.02,"end":8933.02,"text":"我們會開發"},{"start":8933.02,"end":8935.02,"text":"我現在講你的這個就業服務站"},{"start":8935.02,"end":8937.02,"text":"在前陣 那我講的是左營"},{"start":8937.02,"end":8939.02,"text":"這個基地你們也可以好好的利用"},{"start":8939.02,"end":8941.02,"text":"來副主委你請你回應一下"},{"start":8941.02,"end":8943.02,"text":"謝謝 市議院委員的提示"},{"start":8943.02,"end":8945.02,"text":"針對委員剛講這部分我們會加強"},{"start":8945.02,"end":8947.02,"text":"在地方的這個就業服務養還有我們這個網站"},{"start":8947.02,"end":8949.02,"text":"跟勞動部要怎麼去結合"},{"start":8949.02,"end":8951.02,"text":"我希望可以實際上看到"},{"start":8951.02,"end":8953.02,"text":"就是針對重點的部分"},{"start":8953.02,"end":8955.02,"text":"去做這個媒介"},{"start":8955.02,"end":8957.02,"text":"那做這個媒介協助你們的族人"},{"start":8957.02,"end":8959.02,"text":"來一起可能可以加入"},{"start":8959.02,"end":8961.02,"text":"高雄的半導體產業"},{"start":8961.02,"end":8963.02,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":8969.7,"end":8971.7,"text":"好因為稍等還要處理"},{"start":8971.7,"end":8973.7,"text":"這個法案喔"},{"start":8973.7,"end":8975.7,"text":"所以我們大概等巡達完之後再休息"},{"start":8976.65,"end":8978.65,"text":"如果說有任何狀況也歡迎"},{"start":8978.65,"end":8980.65,"text":"可以隨時提出沒有問題"},{"start":8980.65,"end":8982.65,"text":"那我們下一位請吳立華委員發言質詢"},{"start":8991.18,"end":8993.18,"text":"謝謝主席有請副主委"},{"start":8996.33,"end":8998.33,"text":"很可惜沒有主委在"},{"start":8999.5,"end":9001.5,"text":"委員好"},{"start":9001.54,"end":9003.54,"text":"今天"},{"start":9004.16,"end":9006.16,"text":"特別在內政委員會"},{"start":9006.16,"end":9008.16,"text":"邀請原民會"},{"start":9008.18,"end":9010.18,"text":"做這樣的一個"},{"start":9010.84,"end":9012.84,"text":"專報"},{"start":9012.43,"end":9014.43,"text":"但是與此同時此時此刻"},{"start":9015.63,"end":9017.63,"text":"我知道的是在行政院的大禮堂"},{"start":9017.63,"end":9019.63,"text":"有舉辦一個"},{"start":9019.63,"end":9021.63,"text":"希拉亞族民族合併"},{"start":9021.63,"end":9023.63,"text":"暨正名宣告的一個典禮"},{"start":9026.01,"end":9028.01,"text":"希拉亞族加入"},{"start":9028.01,"end":9030.01,"text":"原住民族的第17族"},{"start":9031.33,"end":9033.33,"text":"這是何等"},{"start":9033.64,"end":9035.64,"text":"困難何等重要的一件事"},{"start":9035.64,"end":9037.64,"text":"那照理說"},{"start":9037.64,"end":9039.64,"text":"我們這些原住民"},{"start":9039.64,"end":9041.64,"text":"的委員我們是弟兄"},{"start":9041.64,"end":9043.64,"text":"姐妹我們應該"},{"start":9043.64,"end":9045.64,"text":"要去那個地方共同"},{"start":9045.64,"end":9047.64,"text":"的來見證這個很"},{"start":9047.64,"end":9049.64,"text":"特別的日子但是"},{"start":9049.64,"end":9051.64,"text":"我非常遺憾我沒有辦法"},{"start":9051.64,"end":9053.64,"text":"參與我真的非常的遺憾"},{"start":9054.5,"end":9056.5,"text":"不過呢今天在這裡"},{"start":9056.5,"end":9058.5,"text":"我要特別提今天"},{"start":9058.5,"end":9060.5,"text":"是7月30號"},{"start":9060.42,"end":9062.42,"text":"前天7月28號"},{"start":9062.42,"end":9064.42,"text":"對原住民來講是一個"},{"start":9064.42,"end":9066.42,"text":"非常重要的日子"},{"start":9066.42,"end":9068.42,"text":"因為在1994年"},{"start":9069.7,"end":9071.7,"text":"那一天我們從"},{"start":9071.7,"end":9073.7,"text":"三包正名為"},{"start":9073.7,"end":9075.7,"text":"原住民"},{"start":9075.34,"end":9077.34,"text":"但是經過了這32年"},{"start":9077.34,"end":9079.34,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":9079.34,"end":9081.34,"text":"我們有沒有更進步"},{"start":9081.34,"end":9083.34,"text":"所以我等一下我特別"},{"start":9083.34,"end":9085.34,"text":"要來複習這一段"},{"start":9085.34,"end":9087.34,"text":"歷史的關課"},{"start":9087.51,"end":9089.51,"text":"那後天呢8月1號"},{"start":9089.51,"end":9091.51,"text":"也是非常重要的日子"},{"start":9091.51,"end":9093.51,"text":"叫做原住民族日"},{"start":9095.25,"end":9097.25,"text":"所以從2005年"},{"start":9097.71,"end":9099.71,"text":"制定這個日子我相信"},{"start":9100.87,"end":9102.87,"text":"這些21年來"},{"start":9102.87,"end":9104.87,"text":"我們也看到很多的演變"},{"start":9104.87,"end":9106.87,"text":"但是我們到底有沒有"},{"start":9106.87,"end":9108.87,"text":"變得更好原住民有沒有變得更進步"},{"start":9110.2,"end":9112.2,"text":"那回過頭來我們要回到"},{"start":9112.2,"end":9114.2,"text":"1991年這一次的"},{"start":9114.2,"end":9116.2,"text":"修憲"},{"start":9116.09,"end":9118.09,"text":"因為1991年"},{"start":9118.45,"end":9120.45,"text":"這個中華民國的憲法"},{"start":9120.45,"end":9122.45,"text":"是在南京一決"},{"start":9122.45,"end":9124.45,"text":"制定的"},{"start":9124.26,"end":9126.26,"text":"來到台灣"},{"start":9126.12,"end":9128.12,"text":"我們常常講"},{"start":9127.63,"end":9129.63,"text":"這個衣服沒有量身"},{"start":9129.63,"end":9131.63,"text":"訂製"},{"start":9131.26,"end":9133.26,"text":"修修補補"},{"start":9133.26,"end":9135.26,"text":"怎麼補怎麼改"},{"start":9134.62,"end":9136.62,"text":"穿起來就是不好看"},{"start":9136.62,"end":9138.62,"text":"就是不舒服"},{"start":9138.03,"end":9140.03,"text":"那好不容易1991年"},{"start":9140.03,"end":9142.03,"text":"為了因應中止動員"},{"start":9142.03,"end":9144.03,"text":"看亂時期我們終於"},{"start":9144.03,"end":9146.03,"text":"開始了修憲"},{"start":9146.43,"end":9148.43,"text":"可是這一次的修憲我要特別講"},{"start":9148.43,"end":9150.43,"text":"當年的這些原權團體"},{"start":9150.43,"end":9152.43,"text":"我們原住民的權益促進會"},{"start":9152.43,"end":9154.43,"text":"這些團體"},{"start":9156.68,"end":9158.68,"text":"他們把握這一次修憲的機會"},{"start":9158.68,"end":9160.68,"text":"好不容易"},{"start":9160.32,"end":9162.32,"text":"他們的訴求是什麼呢"},{"start":9162.32,"end":9164.32,"text":"希望用台灣原住民族"},{"start":9166.19,"end":9168.19,"text":"這六個字來取代"},{"start":9168.94,"end":9170.94,"text":"平地三包山地三包"},{"start":9172.25,"end":9174.25,"text":"可是完全沒有被接納"},{"start":9176.07,"end":9178.07,"text":"到了1992年的第二次修憲"},{"start":9179.81,"end":9181.81,"text":"我們看到"},{"start":9181.75,"end":9183.75,"text":"國民黨中常會決定"},{"start":9183.75,"end":9185.75,"text":"要把三包改成"},{"start":9185.75,"end":9187.75,"text":"早住民或先住民"},{"start":9187.75,"end":9189.75,"text":"引起各界"},{"start":9189.75,"end":9191.75,"text":"強烈的反彈"},{"start":9193.56,"end":9197.56,"text":"所以原權團體他們特別到國民大會訴求"},{"start":9197.56,"end":9199.56,"text":"第一個希望三包"},{"start":9200.35,"end":9202.35,"text":"要正名為原住民族"},{"start":9203.49,"end":9205.49,"text":"所以我們很清楚的看到"},{"start":9206.58,"end":9208.58,"text":"所以當時民進黨的一個國大"},{"start":9210.36,"end":9212.36,"text":"叫做吳青桂"},{"start":9212.21,"end":9216.21,"text":"他特別有做出一個第34號的提案"},{"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們看到民進黨"},{"start":9436.3,"end":9438.3,"text":"對於自己的一個"},{"start":9438.3,"end":9440.3,"text":"成局的版本"},{"start":9440.3,"end":9442.3,"text":"我們可以看到就是"},{"start":9442.3,"end":9444.3,"text":"56票"},{"start":9444.3,"end":9446.3,"text":"這56票是怎麼來的"},{"start":9446.3,"end":9448.3,"text":"我要特別說明就是全部"},{"start":9448.3,"end":9450.3,"text":"民進黨的49票"},{"start":9450.3,"end":9452.3,"text":"加上全部當時"},{"start":9452.3,"end":9454.3,"text":"原住民國大的7票"},{"start":9455.4,"end":9457.4,"text":"總共56票同意"},{"start":9459.24,"end":9461.24,"text":"那在國民黨版的投票"},{"start":9461.24,"end":9463.24,"text":"我們可以發現"},{"start":9463.24,"end":9465.24,"text":"因為國民黨版"},{"start":9465.24,"end":9467.24,"text":"是要說自由地區"},{"start":9467.24,"end":9469.24,"text":"平地三包"},{"start":9468.85,"end":9470.85,"text":"所以"},{"start":9470.85,"end":9472.85,"text":"在這個當中我們可以看到"},{"start":9472.85,"end":9474.85,"text":"即便是原本"},{"start":9474.85,"end":9476.85,"text":"國民黨如果全部支持"},{"start":9476.85,"end":9478.85,"text":"應該可以通過仍然未通過"},{"start":9478.85,"end":9480.85,"text":"所以重新投票"},{"start":9480.85,"end":9482.85,"text":"之後因為有人離席"},{"start":9484.17,"end":9486.17,"text":"我特別要交代這一件事情"},{"start":9486.17,"end":9488.17,"text":"就是要說"},{"start":9488.17,"end":9490.17,"text":"我們現在看到的這個"},{"start":9490.17,"end":9492.17,"text":"定案的現行條文"},{"start":9492.17,"end":9494.17,"text":"也就是那個時候"},{"start":9494.17,"end":9496.17,"text":"我們不得已留下來的條文"},{"start":9496.17,"end":9498.17,"text":"第四條自由地區"},{"start":9498.17,"end":9500.17,"text":"平地原住民及山地原住民"},{"start":9500.17,"end":9502.17,"text":"各三人"},{"start":9502.6,"end":9504.6,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":9504.22,"end":9506.22,"text":"原住民沒有放棄"},{"start":9506.36,"end":9508.36,"text":"2020年"},{"start":9508.15,"end":9510.15,"text":"我來到立法院"},{"start":9510.34,"end":9512.34,"text":"我參與休閒小組"},{"start":9513.43,"end":9515.43,"text":"我就是希望"},{"start":9515.43,"end":9517.43,"text":"能夠延續"},{"start":9517.43,"end":9519.43,"text":"過去沒有能夠完成的"},{"start":9519.43,"end":9521.43,"text":"這樣的一個使命"},{"start":9521.43,"end":9523.43,"text":"但是非常的可惜"},{"start":9523.43,"end":9525.43,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":9525.43,"end":9527.43,"text":"連署共39人"},{"start":9527.43,"end":9529.43,"text":"我拿去給所有的"},{"start":9529.43,"end":9531.43,"text":"不分黨派的委員"},{"start":9531.43,"end":9533.43,"text":"但是"},{"start":9533.43,"end":9535.43,"text":"我只連署到39人"},{"start":9535.43,"end":9537.43,"text":"連要出立法院"},{"start":9537.43,"end":9539.43,"text":"都沒有辦法"},{"start":9539.43,"end":9541.43,"text":"黃論要進入公投"},{"start":9541.95,"end":9543.95,"text":"所以2024年第二屆"},{"start":9543.95,"end":9545.95,"text":"我第11屆進來"},{"start":9545.95,"end":9547.95,"text":"我依然提出這樣的一個"},{"start":9547.95,"end":9549.95,"text":"休閒提案"},{"start":9549.95,"end":9551.95,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":9551.3,"end":9553.3,"text":"更少了"},{"start":9552.68,"end":9554.68,"text":"36人連署"},{"start":9555.38,"end":9557.38,"text":"依舊沒有辦法"},{"start":9557.38,"end":9559.38,"text":"我在這邊很高興今天下午"},{"start":9559.38,"end":9561.38,"text":"我們會提出原住民的身份法"},{"start":9561.38,"end":9563.38,"text":"我要特別提到的是"},{"start":9563.38,"end":9565.38,"text":"國大原來的休閒程序的門檻"},{"start":9565.38,"end":9567.38,"text":"就已經很高"},{"start":9567.38,"end":9569.38,"text":"現行休閒程序的門檻更高"},{"start":9570.42,"end":9572.42,"text":"休閒那麼難"},{"start":9572.42,"end":9574.42,"text":"那我們就回到原住民身份法去處理"},{"start":9575.24,"end":9577.24,"text":"我們主張山地原住民"},{"start":9577.24,"end":9579.24,"text":"平地原住民平埔原住民"},{"start":9579.24,"end":9581.24,"text":"南島語系的民族"},{"start":9581.24,"end":9583.24,"text":"原住民就是原住民"},{"start":9583.24,"end":9585.24,"text":"今天"},{"start":9585.32,"end":9587.32,"text":"7月30號"},{"start":9586.95,"end":9588.95,"text":"希拉里亞族"},{"start":9588.59,"end":9590.59,"text":"他能夠正式加入"},{"start":9590.59,"end":9592.59,"text":"原住民族的第17族"},{"start":9592.59,"end":9594.59,"text":"這是一個非常非常"},{"start":9594.59,"end":9596.59,"text":"重要的日子"},{"start":9596.57,"end":9598.57,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":9598.6,"end":9600.6,"text":"平埔族希拉里亞加入"},{"start":9600.6,"end":9602.6,"text":"都這麼難了"},{"start":9602.77,"end":9604.77,"text":"所以今天的原住民身份法"},{"start":9604.77,"end":9606.77,"text":"我有一個提案"},{"start":9607.1,"end":9609.1,"text":"就是第7條的第二項的增列"},{"start":9610.71,"end":9612.71,"text":"我希望取消落日條款"},{"start":9614.29,"end":9616.29,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":9615.78,"end":9617.78,"text":"我剛剛講了"},{"start":9617.78,"end":9619.78,"text":"連希拉里亞族"},{"start":9619.78,"end":9621.78,"text":"要加入原住民的大家庭"},{"start":9621.78,"end":9623.78,"text":"就這麼難"},{"start":9623.78,"end":9625.78,"text":"我們應該讓父母本來可以取得"},{"start":9625.78,"end":9627.78,"text":"原住民身份"},{"start":9627.78,"end":9629.78,"text":"卻因為他們已經死亡"},{"start":9629.78,"end":9631.78,"text":"導致無法依父母身份取得原住民身份的人"},{"start":9631.78,"end":9633.78,"text":"我們希望"},{"start":9633.78,"end":9635.78,"text":"他們也可以用傳統名字"},{"start":9635.78,"end":9637.78,"text":"取得原住民身份"},{"start":9637.78,"end":9639.78,"text":"取消這個落日條款"},{"start":9639.78,"end":9641.78,"text":"我覺得這是我們"},{"start":9641.78,"end":9643.78,"text":"應該大家一同"},{"start":9643.78,"end":9645.78,"text":"做的事"},{"start":9645.78,"end":9647.78,"text":"因為原住民就是原住民"},{"start":9648.11,"end":9650.11,"text":"副主委我今天"},{"start"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會很好"},{"start":9796.48,"end":9798.48,"text":"其實我在1996年也是剛好"},{"start":9798.48,"end":9800.48,"text":"是第三屆國大代表"},{"start":9800.48,"end":9802.48,"text":"但是我在1994年我就上過陽明山"},{"start":9802.48,"end":9804.48,"text":"不是為了當國大代表"},{"start":9804.48,"end":9806.48,"text":"是為了呼應很多原權團體"},{"start":9806.48,"end":9808.48,"text":"去要求證明"},{"start":9808.37,"end":9810.37,"text":"為什麼證明 為原住民證明"},{"start":9811.11,"end":9813.11,"text":"那如果說原住民叫三包"},{"start":9813.11,"end":9815.11,"text":"那我叫做什麼"},{"start":9815.68,"end":9817.68,"text":"叫漢堡啊"},{"start":9817.05,"end":9819.05,"text":"而且還要分胡老漢堡"},{"start":9819.05,"end":9821.05,"text":"跟客家漢堡 你會接受嗎"},{"start":9821.4,"end":9823.4,"text":"你認為我會接受嗎"},{"start":9823.4,"end":9825.4,"text":"我當然不會接受"},{"start":9824.67,"end":9826.67,"text":"所以剛剛武委員說到"},{"start":9826.67,"end":9828.67,"text":"將原住民區分成三地原住民跟平地原住民"},{"start":9828.67,"end":9830.67,"text":"先入為主"},{"start":9830.67,"end":9832.67,"text":"就將原住民的生活領域"},{"start":9832.67,"end":9834.67,"text":"侷限在台灣的特定地區"},{"start":9834.67,"end":9836.67,"text":"你覺得如何"},{"start":9836.91,"end":9838.91,"text":"你就這樣好嗎"},{"start":9838.63,"end":9840.63,"text":"事實上"},{"start":9840.63,"end":9842.63,"text":"因為整個台灣最早的時候都是原住民"},{"start":9842.63,"end":9844.63,"text":"難道最早的時候台灣原住民"},{"start":9844.63,"end":9846.63,"text":"有分區住在山上跟平地的嗎"},{"start":9846.63,"end":9848.63,"text":"通通都是我們原住民的"},{"start":9848.63,"end":9850.63,"text":"一個領域"},{"start":9850.63,"end":9852.63,"text":"那我現在要問的"},{"start":9852.63,"end":9854.63,"text":"那如果未來我們修憲"},{"start":9854.63,"end":9856.63,"text":"將憲法當中的三原跟平原拿掉"},{"start":9856.63,"end":9858.63,"text":"就是只有原住民 你會不會支持"},{"start":9860.08,"end":9862.08,"text":"我說 修憲法你會不會支持"},{"start":9862.15,"end":9864.15,"text":"會 會支持 很好"},{"start":9864.15,"end":9866.15,"text":"好 那我開始進入今天的本題了"},{"start":9866.15,"end":9868.15,"text":"那說到原住民的生存活動空間"},{"start":9868.15,"end":9870.15,"text":"你認為原住民保留地"},{"start":9870.15,"end":9872.15,"text":"通通都是山坡地嗎"},{"start":9874.07,"end":9876.07,"text":"保留地其實不盡然全部在山坡地"},{"start":9876.07,"end":9878.07,"text":"大部分是而已"},{"start":9878.07,"end":9880.07,"text":"是 因為山坡地的定義"},{"start":9880.07,"end":9882.07,"text":"是在100公尺以上"},{"start":9882.07,"end":9884.07,"text":"或者是海拔100公尺以下"},{"start":9884.07,"end":9886.07,"text":"坡度超過5%的"},{"start":9886.07,"end":9888.07,"text":"我們屏東很多原鄉它的土地"},{"start":9888.07,"end":9890.07,"text":"就沒有超過100公尺"},{"start":9890.07,"end":9892.07,"text":"也沒有超過5%"},{"start":9892.07,"end":9894.07,"text":"可是他們的使用卻受到山坡地"},{"start":9894.07,"end":9896.07,"text":"保育條例的限制"},{"start":9896.07,"end":9898.07,"text":"好 我再請問一下"},{"start":9898.07,"end":9900.07,"text":"你認為 來我請教一下那個"},{"start":9900.07,"end":9902.07,"text":"水保署的檢認"},{"start":9902.3,"end":9903.3,"text":"檢查官方的事"},{"start":9903.88,"end":9904.88,"text":"是 掰掰"},{"start":9905.49,"end":9907.49,"text":"山坡地保育條例對不對"},{"start":9907.49,"end":9909.49,"text":"是 建民登記應該規範在山坡地保育條例嗎"},{"start":9911.51,"end":9913.51,"text":"其實山坡地保育條例"},{"start":9913.51,"end":9915.51,"text":"官方不敢建民登記"},{"start":9915.51,"end":9917.51,"text":"不管 好很好 可以寫 請立刻請回了"},{"start":9917.51,"end":9919.51,"text":"好 副主任"},{"start":9920,"end":9922,"text":"來 請你們的處長告訴你"},{"start":9922,"end":9925,"text":"昨天他在我們修山坡地保育條例的時候"},{"start":9925,"end":9928,"text":"他是不是希望把建民登記的條款"},{"start":9928,"end":9930,"text":"放在山坡地保育條例裡面"},{"start":9930,"end":9932,"text":"你可以問他 有沒有"},{"start":9932,"end":9934,"text":"處長 有沒有"},{"start":9933.94,"end":9935.94,"text":"我們的規劃是要放在我們這個"},{"start":9935.94,"end":9937.94,"text":"元寶地的管理處"},{"start":9937.94,"end":9939.94,"text":"是嗎"},{"start":9939.94,"end":9941.94,"text":"我們是有原住民族保留地的一個"},{"start":9941.94,"end":9943.94,"text":"管理辦條例嘛 對不對"},{"start":9943.94,"end":9945.94,"text":"好 那我們看一下"},{"start":9945.67,"end":9947.67,"text":"往前第一張"},{"start":9948.08,"end":9950.08,"text":"原住民保留地的法規"},{"start":9950.08,"end":9952.08,"text":"不應該訂在山坡地保育條例"},{"start":9952.08,"end":9954.08,"text":"要另訂專法 對不對"},{"start":9954.08,"end":9956.08,"text":"這是你們的主張 是"},{"start":9956.08,"end":9958.08,"text":"好 那我們來看一下 為什麼會有這個主張呢"},{"start":9958.08,"end":9960.08,"text":"我們往下看"},{"start":9960.08,"end":9962.08,"text":"其實在110年有一個108"},{"start":9962.08,"end":9964.08,"text":"台上大致"},{"start":9964.08,"end":9966.08,"text":"也就是最高法院的民事大法庭"},{"start":9966.08,"end":9968.08,"text":"他說 關於非原住民以建民登記"},{"start":9968.08,"end":9970.08,"text":"這個違反了民法"},{"start":9970.08,"end":9972.08,"text":"因屬無效"},{"start":9972.97,"end":9974.97,"text":"大法庭已經坐上了裁示了"},{"start":9974.97,"end":9976.97,"text":"所以 關於很多建民登記的問題"},{"start":9976.97,"end":9978.97,"text":"就爆發出來了嘛 對不對"},{"start":9978.97,"end":9980.97,"text":"對 甚至我們來看今年"},{"start":9980.97,"end":9982.97,"text":"往下看"},{"start":9982.18,"end":9984.18,"text":"今年14年"},{"start":9984.18,"end":9986.18,"text":"有一個憲判 去年有一個憲判"},{"start":9986.18,"end":9988.18,"text":"這個憲判說什麼 他是不予受理喔"},{"start":9988.93,"end":9990.93,"text":"這個憲判說"},{"start":9990.57,"end":9992.57,"text":"所謂的 老人和內農"},{"start":9992.57,"end":9994.57,"text":"原住民保留地"},{"start":9993.91,"end":9995.91,"text":"所以他們不介入"},{"start":10006.72,"end":10008.72,"text":"國會保留 雖然他說這個不屬於"},{"start":10008.72,"end":10010.72,"text":"我們憲法法庭裁判的範圍"},{"start":10010.72,"end":10012.72,"text":"但是"},{"start":10012.72,"end":10014.72,"text":"但是過去 卻利用"},{"start":10014.72,"end":10016.72,"text":"三波地保育條例第三條第六項"},{"start":10016.72,"end":10018.72,"text":"的控排授權"},{"start":10018.72,"end":10020.72,"text":"以至於中央原住民主管機關"},{"start":10020.72,"end":10022.72,"text":"需要 必須要"},{"start":10022.72,"end":10024.72,"text":"訂定原住民保留地開發"},{"start":10024.72,"end":10026.72,"text":"管理辦法"},{"start":10026.72,"end":10028.72,"text":"管理辦法是個法律"},{"start":10028.74,"end":10030.74,"text":"不是 府不保留原則"},{"start":10030.74,"end":10032.74,"text":"不符合 一定要國會立法"},{"start":10032.74,"end":10034.74,"text":"對不對 所以違反了憲法第23條"},{"start":10034.74,"end":10036.74,"text":"的法律明確性規定"},{"start":10036.74,"end":10038.74,"text":"所以 行政院有沒有後來"},{"start":10038.74,"end":10040.74,"text":"原民會有沒有送出"},{"start":10040.74,"end":10042.74,"text":"這樣的一個專法 原保地的"},{"start":10042.74,"end":10044.74,"text":"條例專法"},{"start":10044.74,"end":10046.74,"text":"這個我們在110年曾經送過"},{"start":10046.74,"end":10048.74,"text":"有 我這裡拿到了"},{"start":10048.74,"end":10050.74,"text":"111年"},{"start":10050.43,"end":10052.43,"text":"行政院有送到立法院來"},{"start":10052.43,"end":10054.43,"text":"立法院怎麼處理"},{"start":10054.14,"end":10056.14,"text":"霍主委你知道嗎"},{"start":10056.32,"end":10058.32,"text":"後來有一些討論"},{"start":10058.32,"end":10060.32,"text":"有一些爭議的部分"},{"start":10060.32,"end":10062.32,"text":"後來有一些委員 包括在場的原住民委員反對"},{"start":10063.62,"end":10065.62,"text":"所以他就沒有通過了"},{"start":10065.62,"end":10067.62,"text":"在場的原住民委員反對"},{"start":10067.62,"end":10069.62,"text":"原民會在行政院"},{"start":10069.62,"end":10071.62,"text":"送來的原住民主保留地的"},{"start":10071.62,"end":10073.62,"text":"條例 管理條例"},{"start":10073.62,"end":10075.62,"text":"我不懂啊"},{"start":10076.35,"end":10078.35,"text":"我不懂啊"},{"start":10077.76,"end":10079.76,"text":"原住民的委員"},{"start":10079.76,"end":10081.76,"text":"當行政訂定專法"},{"start":10081.76,"end":10083.76,"text":"符合憲法的要旨"},{"start":10083.76,"end":10085.76,"text":"符合大法庭的要求"},{"start":10085.76,"end":10087.76,"text":"居然反對 霍主委"},{"start":10087.76,"end":10089.76,"text":"你們偷偷告訴我"},{"start":10089.76,"end":10091.76,"text":"到底那時候你們在原民會了"},{"start":10092.11,"end":10094.11,"text":"當時原住民委員那位委員"},{"start":10094.11,"end":10096.11,"text":"那幾位委員為什麼要反對"},{"start":10097.69,"end":10099.69,"text":"在場你不好意思講嗎"},{"start":10100.01,"end":10102.01,"text":"因為委員在場不好意思講嗎"},{"start":10102.65,"end":10104.65,"text":"沒有要你再這麼發言時間啦"},{"start":10104.65,"end":10106.65,"text":"你昨天都講過了"},{"start":10106.05,"end":10108.05,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":10107.23,"end":10109.23,"text":"喂"},{"start":10108.88,"end":10110.88,"text":"那是你講的"},{"start":10110.88,"end":10112.88,"text":"就是因為政府的關係"},{"start":10112.88,"end":10114.88,"text":"到目前 戒氣不連續"},{"start":10114.8,"end":10116.8,"text":"上一屆的原保地條例"},{"start":10116.8,"end":10118.8,"text":"結果功敗垂成"},{"start":10118.8,"end":10120.8,"text":"因為少數"},{"start":10120.8,"end":10122.8,"text":"部分原住民委員"},{"start":10122.8,"end":10124.8,"text":"基於私利反對"},{"start":10123.53,"end":10125.53,"text":"結果呢"},{"start":10124.9,"end":10126.9,"text":"就打消了"},{"start":10126.23,"end":10128.23,"text":"本屆立法院行政院"},{"start":10128.23,"end":10130.23,"text":"有沒有要再送出來"},{"start":10130.06,"end":10132.06,"text":"目前我們已經送到行政院了"},{"start":10132.06,"end":10134.06,"text":"有沒有關於建民登記的規定"},{"start":10134.06,"end":10136.06,"text":"有"},{"start":10136.06,"end":10138.06,"text":"有關於建民登記的規定"},{"start":10138.06,"end":10140.06,"text":"包含剛剛307條全部在那個版本"},{"start":10140.06,"end":10142.06,"text":"如果這個專法沒有趕快在立法院通過"},{"start":10142.06,"end":10144.06,"text":"剛剛所秀出來的"},{"start":10144.06,"end":10146.06,"text":"這些原住民族保留地的"},{"start":10146.06,"end":10148.06,"text":"相關產權爭議"},{"start":10148.06,"end":10150.06,"text":"透過建民登記 有沒有法律可以處理"},{"start":10150.98,"end":10152.98,"text":"沒有"},{"start":10153.11,"end":10155.11,"text":"所以我在這裡"},{"start":10155.11,"end":10157.11,"text":"我要請這麼多人在"},{"start":10157.13,"end":10159.13,"text":"這裡面我為什麼要請林保署呢"},{"start":10160.45,"end":10162.45,"text":"林保署負責我們"},{"start":10162.58,"end":10164.58,"text":"環境保育嘛"},{"start":10164.58,"end":10166.58,"text":"裡面有沒有很多原保地"},{"start":10166.58,"end":10168.58,"text":"你們怎麼處理遇到這些爭議"},{"start":10168.58,"end":10170.58,"text":"遇到建民登記 到底要去處分行為人"},{"start":10170.58,"end":10172.58,"text":"還是處分這個所有權人"},{"start":10172.58,"end":10174.58,"text":"有沒有很多的爭議"},{"start":10174.58,"end":10176.58,"text":"我再另外問一下"},{"start":10175.99,"end":10177.99,"text":"拿文國三數"},{"start":10178.66,"end":10180.66,"text":"我們國三數管轄用地"},{"start":10180.66,"end":10182.66,"text":"有沒有跟原保地有一些認定的問題"},{"start":10185.12,"end":10187.12,"text":"有認定嗎 產權 界線的問題"},{"start":10187.12,"end":10189.12,"text":"如果沒有這個專法"},{"start":10189.12,"end":10191.12,"text":"我們國有財產"},{"start":10191.12,"end":10193.12,"text":"不管是國有林地"},{"start":10193.12,"end":10195.12,"text":"還是國有土地的部分"},{"start":10195.12,"end":10197.12,"text":"有沒有辦法釐清哪些是我們屬於原住民的土地"},{"start":10198.54,"end":10200.54,"text":"你們遇到建民登記怎麼辦"},{"start":10201.09,"end":10205.09,"text":"建民登記的審理的權責是地政單位"},{"start":10205.09,"end":10207.09,"text":"好很好你幫他們叫地政單位"},{"start":10207.09,"end":10209.09,"text":"來 地政司"},{"start":10208.58,"end":10210.58,"text":"張捷克的視察 你們怎麼處理"},{"start":10211.4,"end":10213.4,"text":"目前建民登記如果是施權部分"},{"start":10213.4,"end":10215.4,"text":"都要訴請法院來處理"},{"start":10215.4,"end":10217.4,"text":"訴請法院嘛"},{"start":10217.4,"end":10219.4,"text":"一個案子case by case嘛"},{"start":10218.82,"end":10220.82,"text":"所以未來的原住民保留地的處理條例"},{"start":10220.82,"end":10222.82,"text":"如果送到本院來"},{"start":10222.82,"end":10224.82,"text":"會在哪裡審理"},{"start":10225.98,"end":10227.98,"text":"會在內政委員會"},{"start":10227.98,"end":10229.98,"text":"內政委會處理內政部"},{"start":10229.4,"end":10231.4,"text":"會表地政司"},{"start":10231.01,"end":10233.01,"text":"是不是可以跟這些問題做一個"},{"start":10233.01,"end":10235.01,"text":"完全正本清源的處理"},{"start":10235.01,"end":10237.01,"text":"好副主任 我請教一下"},{"start":10237.01,"end":10239.01,"text":"你支不支持關於原住民保留地"},{"start":10239.01,"end":10241.01,"text":"關於建民登記這些"},{"start":10241.01,"end":10243.01,"text":"長期來的爭議"},{"start":10243.01,"end":10245.01,"text":"困擾我們原住民朋友的"},{"start":10245.01,"end":10247.01,"text":"希望有個專法通過後"},{"start":10247.01,"end":10249.01,"text":"送到本院來審理"},{"start":10249.01,"end":10251.01,"text":"我們內政委員來審理你支不支持"},{"start":10251.01,"end":10253.01,"text":"這個一直都是原民會規劃"},{"start":10253.01,"end":10255.01,"text":"希望朝這個方向"},{"start":10255.01,"end":10257.01,"text":"是的 你好好告訴你們處長"},{"start":10257.01,"end":10259.01,"text":"他昨天在我們經濟委員會"},{"start":10259.01,"end":10261.01,"text":"建民保留地保育條例的時候"},{"start":10261.01,"end":10263.01,"text":"他卻配合特定委員"},{"start":10263.01,"end":10265.01,"text":"要把建民登記"},{"start":10265.01,"end":10267.01,"text":"放在原來本質"},{"start":10267.01,"end":10269.01,"text":"完全不同的三波地保育條例"},{"start":10269.01,"end":10271.01,"text":"我不是在說他違背"},{"start":10271.01,"end":10273.01,"text":"我們原住民的權益啦"},{"start":10273.01,"end":10275.01,"text":"但是可能他在當下"},{"start":10275.01,"end":10277.01,"text":"因為那個管理條例太久了"},{"start":10277.01,"end":10279.01,"text":"那我們有一個問題"},{"start":10279.01,"end":10281.01,"text":"如果上屆沒有人阻擋就通過啦"},{"start":10281.01,"end":10283.01,"text":"所以我們才會有這樣的一個想法"},{"start":10283.01,"end":10285.01,"text":"所以趕快在行政委員會推動"},{"start":10285.01,"end":10287.01,"text":"原住民族保留地"},{"start":10287.01,"end":10289.01,"text":"管理條例要趕快"},{"start":10289.01,"end":10291.01,"text":"送到本院來審查"},{"start":10291.01,"end":10293.01,"text":"送到本院的內政委員來審查"},{"start":10293.01,"end":10295.01,"text":"我今天我在經濟委員會"},{"start":10295.01,"end":10297.01,"text":"我特別來跟你們告這個狀"},{"start":10297.01,"end":10299.01,"text":"不是告處長的狀"},{"start":10299.01,"end":10301.01,"text":"因為處長他人在屋簷下不得不低頭啊"},{"start":10300.77,"end":10302.77,"text":"對不對"},{"start":10302.77,"end":10304.77,"text":"所以委員在那邊要求"},{"start":10304.77,"end":10306.77,"text":"他配合把這些條文法規生出來"},{"start":10306.77,"end":10308.77,"text":"這是不對的"},{"start":10307.77,"end":10309.77,"text":"所以我希望原住民委員會加油好不好"},{"start":10310.54,"end":10314.54,"text":"不要再被人家說成是三包跟漢包了好不好"},{"start":10314.54,"end":10316.54,"text":"不要再有3D原住民跟平民的人自稱好不好"},{"start":10317.91,"end":10319.91,"text":"我是確定委員的召集委員"},{"start":10319.91,"end":10321.91,"text":"我會來排"},{"start":10321.15,"end":10323.15,"text":"我們這個修憲委員會有很多議題"},{"start":10323.15,"end":10325.15,"text":"徐委員很關心"},{"start":10325.15,"end":10327.15,"text":"昨天有公聽會"},{"start":10327.15,"end":10329.15,"text":"我們希望未來呢"},{"start":10329.15,"end":10331.15,"text":"我們努力的不只讓原住民的正名"},{"start":10331.15,"end":10333.15,"text":"能夠徹底完全成功"},{"start":10333.15,"end":10335.15,"text":"也讓原住民族相關在台灣"},{"start":10335.15,"end":10339.15,"text":"應有的權益都得到國會立法的完整保障好不好"},{"start":10339.15,"end":10341.15,"text":"好 共同努力 謝謝"},{"start":10348.98,"end":10350.98,"text":"我們下一位請如縣議委員發言質詢"},{"start":10358.58,"end":10360.58,"text":"謝謝 此時有請副主任"},{"start":10366.78,"end":10368.78,"text":"針對修法的部分"},{"start":10368.78,"end":10370.78,"text":"我有三個問題問副主委"},{"start":10370.78,"end":10372.78,"text":"因為我之前就在關心說"},{"start":10372.78,"end":10374.78,"text":"有一個第四條的規定"},{"start":10374.78,"end":10376.78,"text":"就是原住民生親想要收養非原住民子女"},{"start":10376.78,"end":10378.78,"text":"並允許孩子取得原住民身份"},{"start":10378.78,"end":10380.78,"text":"一定要滿40歲"},{"start":10380.78,"end":10382.78,"text":"這個部分我早說三次有討論過"},{"start":10382.78,"end":10384.78,"text":"那我現在想知道"},{"start":10384.78,"end":10386.78,"text":"我們應有的態度"},{"start":10386.78,"end":10388.78,"text":"因為現在常常會到"},{"start":10388.78,"end":10390.78,"text":"實際上那樣就是說"},{"start":10390.78,"end":10392.78,"text":"你結婚20幾歲結婚"},{"start":10392.78,"end":10394.78,"text":"結果到30歲還沒有生孩子的時候"},{"start":10394.78,"end":10396.78,"text":"你當然會想說可能想要領養小孩"},{"start":10396.78,"end":10398.78,"text":"不過現在規定要40歲以上"},{"start":10398.78,"end":10400.78,"text":"我是覺得是實在是強人所難"},{"start":10400.78,"end":10402.78,"text":"而且大家也都知道說"},{"start":10402.78,"end":10404.78,"text":"不婚證大概是結婚3年以後"},{"start":10404.78,"end":10406.78,"text":"就可以領養小孩"},{"start":10406.78,"end":10408.78,"text":"不過現在這個規定是希望說"},{"start":10408.78,"end":10410.78,"text":"原本可以針對這個40歲"},{"start":10410.78,"end":10412.78,"text":"這樣的一個數字能夠做檢討"},{"start":10416.95,"end":10418.95,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":10418.95,"end":10420.95,"text":"當然你提那個說3年未能自然"},{"start":10420.95,"end":10422.95,"text":"受孕這個部分我們是有些保留"},{"start":10422.95,"end":10424.95,"text":"因為那個結婚以後"},{"start":10424.95,"end":10426.95,"text":"有沒有那個都是感情什麼"},{"start":10426.95,"end":10428.95,"text":"我們不知道但是經過醫療機構"},{"start":10428.95,"end":10430.95,"text":"診斷委不應這個導致"},{"start":10430.95,"end":10432.95,"text":"可以去朝這個方向去立法"},{"start":10434.55,"end":10436.55,"text":"好現在我們這次的修法裡面"},{"start":10436.55,"end":10438.55,"text":"我想說是不是有討論到"},{"start":10438.55,"end":10440.55,"text":"我們恆春半島有一群排灣族"},{"start":10440.55,"end":10442.55,"text":"沒有原住民的身份"},{"start":10442.55,"end":10444.55,"text":"因為他們不想變成平埔原住民"},{"start":10444.55,"end":10446.55,"text":"他們確實是排灣族"},{"start":10446.55,"end":10448.55,"text":"就是社鼎公園上面那個"},{"start":10448.55,"end":10450.55,"text":"我們叫Guard的部落"},{"start":10450.55,"end":10452.55,"text":"他們一直想要變成"},{"start":10452.55,"end":10454.55,"text":"排灣族可是這個無法無據"},{"start":10454.55,"end":10456.55,"text":"這個部分這次的修法裡面"},{"start":10456.55,"end":10458.55,"text":"有沒有包含到他們"},{"start":10458.45,"end":10460.45,"text":"因為現在平埔族群身份法"},{"start":10460.45,"end":10462.45,"text":"已經立法了如果按照"},{"start":10462.45,"end":10464.45,"text":"現行所有的規定他們就是要透過"},{"start":10464.45,"end":10466.45,"text":"這個身份法來變成"},{"start":10466.45,"end":10468.45,"text":"來轉換成原住民"},{"start":10468.45,"end":10470.45,"text":"那如果說他要回到原住民身份法"},{"start":10470.45,"end":10472.45,"text":"其實在法條上可能沒有辦法"},{"start":10472.45,"end":10474.45,"text":"支持因為"},{"start":10474.45,"end":10476.45,"text":"他會混淆了很多"},{"start":10476.45,"end":10478.45,"text":"如果我們修了身份法以後會"},{"start":10478.45,"end":10480.45,"text":"造成平埔族群身份法跟身份法"},{"start":10480.45,"end":10482.45,"text":"之間是混淆的事實上會"},{"start":10482.45,"end":10484.45,"text":"在適用上會有很大的"},{"start":10484.45,"end":10486.45,"text":"這個憾格"},{"start":10487.03,"end":10489.03,"text":"第二個問題就是我們講到民主議會"},{"start":10489.03,"end":10491.03,"text":"我看到你們的回應是說"},{"start":10491.03,"end":10493.03,"text":"法治三位完備"},{"start":10493.03,"end":10495.03,"text":"那我想說是不是應該盤點"},{"start":10495.03,"end":10497.03,"text":"民主議會或是類似的組織"},{"start":10497.03,"end":10499.03,"text":"的用處的現況提出分族諮商"},{"start":10499.03,"end":10501.03,"text":"及法治化的一個期程"},{"start":10501.03,"end":10503.03,"text":"而不是一直在看等待他們到底"},{"start":10503.03,"end":10505.03,"text":"什麼時候可以完備"},{"start":10505.21,"end":10507.21,"text":"現在民主議會事實上有幾個族群"},{"start":10507.21,"end":10509.21,"text":"有成立他們也在進行"},{"start":10509.21,"end":10511.21,"text":"事實上我們也在收集他們"},{"start":10511.21,"end":10513.21,"text":"在這個過程裡面的相關的"},{"start":10513.21,"end":10515.21,"text":"經驗甚至他們處理的事務"},{"start":10515.21,"end":10517.21,"text":"會"},{"start":10517.21,"end":10519.21,"text":"可以協助我們在未來我們要"},{"start":10519.21,"end":10521.21,"text":"在民主議會要立法的話"},{"start":10521.21,"end":10523.21,"text":"有一些參考依據"},{"start":10523.21,"end":10525.21,"text":"他的程序他的內容他的"},{"start":10525.21,"end":10527.21,"text":"權責是什麼我想都是很好的"},{"start":10527.21,"end":10529.21,"text":"一個經驗的借鏡"},{"start":10529.21,"end":10531.21,"text":"所以我在看目前特別好的就是"},{"start":10531.21,"end":10533.21,"text":"盧凱跟排灣嘛那如果他們"},{"start":10533.21,"end":10535.21,"text":"有特別好的話是不是可以做其他主委的"},{"start":10535.21,"end":10537.21,"text":"一個參考"},{"start":10537.21,"end":10539.21,"text":"的確啊像那個"},{"start":10539.21,"end":10541.21,"text":"霧台的盧凱族群議會"},{"start":10541.21,"end":10543.21,"text":"就非常的完整"},{"start":10543.21,"end":10545.21,"text":"另外一個問題說文化產業"},{"start":10545.21,"end":10547.21,"text":"就是說法律上可以申請"},{"start":10547.21,"end":10549.21,"text":"租稅的減免可是不代表"},{"start":10549.21,"end":10551.21,"text":"實際上民主民主的"},{"start":10551.21,"end":10553.21,"text":"這些產業實際上可以申請的到"},{"start":10553.21,"end":10555.21,"text":"所以是不是原文會應該會等文化"},{"start":10555.21,"end":10557.21,"text":"部財政部提出和申請的"},{"start":10557.21,"end":10559.21,"text":"建樹合準入宮主要的"},{"start":10559.21,"end":10561.21,"text":"障礙然後設這個單一的一個"},{"start":10561.21,"end":10563.21,"text":"福島的窗口"},{"start":10563.21,"end":10565.21,"text":"我們是在講百億的基金"},{"start":10565.21,"end":10567.21,"text":"如果不是基金的話是不是原文會"},{"start":10567.21,"end":10569.21,"text":"應該提出同等功能的替代方案"},{"start":10569.21,"end":10571.21,"text":"把各部會分散在交通"},{"start":10571.21,"end":10573.21,"text":"水利通訊環境公共設施"},{"start":10573.21,"end":10575.21,"text":"這些計畫整合起來然後"},{"start":10575.21,"end":10577.21,"text":"建立跨年度的需求清測裁員"},{"start":10577.21,"end":10579.21,"text":"跟追蹤的機制"},{"start":10579.21,"end":10581.21,"text":"然後就是說用那個"},{"start":10581.21,"end":10583.21,"text":"不能接受基金這兩個字的這個"},{"start":10583.21,"end":10585.21,"text":"來否定我們目前想要做的"},{"start":10585.21,"end":10587.21,"text":"這個規劃"},{"start":10587.51,"end":10589.51,"text":"委員提的這些草案我們都尊重"},{"start":10589.51,"end":10591.51,"text":"但是裡面有一些可能涉及到其他部會"},{"start":10591.51,"end":10593.51,"text":"還有裁員的部分事實上"},{"start":10593.51,"end":10595.51,"text":"會裡面不能夠直接的"},{"start":10595.51,"end":10597.51,"text":"所認為他是可行或不可行"},{"start":10597.51,"end":10599.51,"text":"那另外也有這個我們的"},{"start":10599.51,"end":10601.51,"text":"財政收治法或法或者是"},{"start":10601.51,"end":10603.51,"text":"我們的那個財政的條例"},{"start":10603.51,"end":10605.51,"text":"相關的你要在"},{"start":10605.51,"end":10607.51,"text":"法律裡面明定你的金額"},{"start":10607.51,"end":10609.51,"text":"你必須要有來源"},{"start":10609.51,"end":10611.51,"text":"我想這些都是相關的目的事業"},{"start":10611.51,"end":10613.51,"text":"主管機關的法規啦我們"},{"start":10613.51,"end":10615.51,"text":"尊重啦但是待會兒寫一條"},{"start":10615.51,"end":10617.51,"text":"我看看他們的意見怎麼樣"},{"start":10617.51,"end":10619.51,"text":"好在最後就是講到那個原住民的"},{"start":10619.51,"end":10621.51,"text":"智商的同盟權的部分"},{"start":10621.51,"end":10623.51,"text":"因為我們一二年的"},{"start":10623.51,"end":10625.51,"text":"最高法院的487號判決"},{"start":10625.51,"end":10627.51,"text":"就指出說原住民傳統領域跟"},{"start":10627.51,"end":10629.51,"text":"不信公有跟私有嘛"},{"start":10629.51,"end":10631.51,"text":"那我想說目前常常"},{"start":10631.51,"end":10633.51,"text":"聽到就是宜蘭啊或是哪裡"},{"start":10633.51,"end":10635.51,"text":"要開發地肉啊或者是採礦"},{"start":10635.51,"end":10637.51,"text":"然後常常引起朋友一些紛爭"},{"start":10637.51,"end":10639.51,"text":"甚至上次還產生一個罷免村長"},{"start":10639.51,"end":10641.51,"text":"的一個動作喔"},{"start":10641.51,"end":10643.51,"text":"我是覺得說你會準備何時提出"},{"start":10643.51,"end":10645.51,"text":"土地開發希望能夠分級標準"},{"start":10645.51,"end":10647.51,"text":"跟具體判斷那個指標"},{"start":10647.51,"end":10649.51,"text":"什麼時候來檢討原住民主土地"},{"start":10649.51,"end":10651.51,"text":"跟部落範圍土地劃設辦法"},{"start":10651.51,"end":10653.51,"text":"相關的行政規章"},{"start":10653.51,"end":10655.51,"text":"在新的制度完成以前如果對方"},{"start":10655.51,"end":10657.51,"text":"政府其他部會收到私有土地上的"},{"start":10657.51,"end":10659.51,"text":"政大開發申請"},{"start":10659.51,"end":10661.51,"text":"我們要依據什麼樣的標準判斷"},{"start":10661.51,"end":10663.51,"text":"是否涉及傳統領域哪些部落"},{"start":10663.51,"end":10665.51,"text":"是屬於關係部落然後"},{"start":10665.51,"end":10667.51,"text":"啟動何種資商的程序"},{"start":10667.51,"end":10669.51,"text":"我是想說應該有一個三個層級的"},{"start":10669.51,"end":10671.51,"text":"研議啦那我想說"},{"start":10671.51,"end":10673.51,"text":"如果說是說廢棄物處理能源設施"},{"start":10673.51,"end":10675.51,"text":"大規模土地開發重大土地"},{"start":10675.51,"end":10677.51,"text":"的一些高影響的案件"},{"start":10677.51,"end":10679.51,"text":"是不是應該就要進行"},{"start":10679.51,"end":10681.51,"text":"資商完整的諮商跟部落同意"},{"start":10681.51,"end":10683.51,"text":"若是可能"},{"start":10683.51,"end":10685.51,"text":"只是可能影響部落文化環境"},{"start":10685.51,"end":10687.51,"text":"傳統利用跟生計的一些針對影響案件"},{"start":10687.51,"end":10689.51,"text":"是不是就完成資訊公開"},{"start":10689.51,"end":10691.51,"text":"實質諮商參與決策"},{"start":10691.51,"end":10693.51,"text":"跟利益分享這些"},{"start":10693.51,"end":10695.51,"text":"動作就可以了"},{"start":10695.51,"end":10697.51,"text":"那一般住宅的休散"},{"start":10697.51,"end":10699.51,"text":"小規模的農作或是對部落影響"},{"start":10699.51,"end":10701.51,"text":"輕盈的日常使用"},{"start":10701.51,"end":10703.51,"text":"就我們就簡化他的程序跟合理排除"},{"start":10703.51,"end":10705.51,"text":"我想說明年會"},{"start":10705.51,"end":10707.51,"text":"是不是應該"},{"start":10707.51,"end":10709.51,"text":"去做一個類似像讓對方"},{"start":10709.51,"end":10711.51,"text":"政府經濟部環境部能力部"},{"start":10711.51,"end":10713.51,"text":"這些機關有所依循"},{"start":10713.51,"end":10715.51,"text":"而不是說讓各個機關做各自的"},{"start":10715.51,"end":10717.51,"text":"解讀同樣的案件"},{"start":10717.51,"end":10719.51,"text":"出現不同的標準然後再用"},{"start":10719.51,"end":10721.51,"text":"很多的時間一次一次的走進"},{"start":10721.51,"end":10723.51,"text":"法院才能夠爭取"},{"start":10723.51,"end":10725.51,"text":"本來就應該收到這個保障"},{"start":10726.54,"end":10728.54,"text":"謝謝委員的提點"},{"start":10728.54,"end":10730.54,"text":"剛委員提的這麼多我想"},{"start":10730.54,"end":10732.54,"text":"有一個諮商同意的部分事實上這個"},{"start":10732.54,"end":10734.54,"text":"辦法我們也在研修中"},{"start":10734.54,"end":10736.54,"text":"那也在最後的階段"},{"start":10736.54,"end":10738.54,"text":"馬上就會做對外的公布"},{"start":10738.54,"end":10740.54,"text":"那另外有關於這個土地"},{"start":10740.54,"end":10742.54,"text":"公司有涉及到可能是"},{"start":10742.54,"end":10744.54,"te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這次你很辛苦地"},{"start":10958.08,"end":10960.08,"text":"去了巴丹島我們也曾經"},{"start":10960.08,"end":10962.08,"text":"在實體下有聊過"},{"start":10962.08,"end":10964.08,"text":"這些你的偉大的"},{"start":10964.08,"end":10966.08,"text":"一些計畫不過卻很"},{"start":10966.08,"end":10968.08,"text":"遺憾的是用比如說"},{"start":10968.08,"end":10970.08,"text":"大量淨水並充實的一個精選"},{"start":10970.08,"end":10972.08,"text":"的情況這3850萬"},{"start":10972.08,"end":10974.08,"text":"的一個預算海陸計畫"},{"start":10974.08,"end":10976.08,"text":"是不是就這樣子你覺得是"},{"start":10976.08,"end":10978.08,"text":"付出流水呢還是就像你們原本"},{"start":10978.08,"end":10980.08,"text":"會的所呈現的好幾千個讚的"},{"start":10980.08,"end":10982.08,"text":"一個得到的一個讚美"},{"start":10982.08,"end":10984.08,"text":"你怎麼做取捨"},{"start":10984.08,"end":10986.08,"text":"是謝謝委員"},{"start":10986.08,"end":10988.08,"text":"的詢問"},{"start":10988.08,"end":10990.08,"text":"我們的這個航海計畫"},{"start":10990.08,"end":10992.08,"text":"有一個部分很大的"},{"start":10992.08,"end":10994.08,"text":"預算分佈是在灶州的部分"},{"start":10994.08,"end":10996.08,"text":"那我們採購的是"},{"start":10996.08,"end":10998.08,"text":"島上族人各個家族"},{"start":10998.08,"end":11000.08,"text":"的數目不是從台灣"},{"start":11000.08,"end":11002.08,"text":"買的所以我們讓"},{"start":11002.08,"end":11004.08,"text":"整個利用"},{"start":11004.24,"end":11006.24,"text":"的文化的利用這個"},{"start":11006.24,"end":11008.24,"text":"財產的利用回到部落"},{"start":11008.24,"end":11010.24,"text":"另外就是我們划船的選手"},{"start":11010.24,"end":11012.24,"text":"那也從六個部落去挑選"},{"start":11012.24,"end":11014.24,"text":"然後去支付他的"},{"start":11014.24,"end":11016.24,"text":"划船的費用所以在"},{"start":11016.24,"end":11018.24,"text":"整體預算上我們覺得"},{"start":11018.24,"end":11020.24,"text":"還算是合理而且"},{"start":11020.24,"end":11022.24,"text":"是達到他的效果"},{"start":11022.24,"end":11024.24,"text":"我是覺得這次應該要檢討的就是你們"},{"start":11024.24,"end":11026.24,"text":"可能沒有去真正的去跟"},{"start":11026.24,"end":11028.24,"text":"我們海洋委員會"},{"start":11028.24,"end":11030.24,"text":"交通部航管局做一些"},{"start":11030.24,"end":11032.24,"text":"我們航行安全的管理跟"},{"start":11032.24,"end":11034.24,"text":"管理部發布會的一個應變的機制"},{"start":11034.24,"end":11036.24,"text":"指引啦那我想說以後如果你們"},{"start":11036.24,"end":11038.24,"text":"要再做這些的話是不是應該再更"},{"start":11038.24,"end":11040.24,"text":"嚴謹一點不要到最後明明是一個"},{"start":11040.24,"end":11042.24,"text":"很好的文化的交流"},{"start":11042.24,"end":11044.24,"text":"就到最後是一這樣的一個所謂的"},{"start":11044.24,"end":11046.24,"text":"不是那麼好看的一個據點"},{"start":11046.24,"end":11048.24,"text":"讓國委會覺得說你們這樣的"},{"start":11048.24,"end":11050.24,"text":"一個努力是不是就有點"},{"start":11050.24,"end":11052.24,"text":"白費這樣是"},{"start":11052.24,"end":11054.24,"text":"就像委員提到的就是說氣候"},{"start":11054.24,"end":11056.24,"text":"的掌握可能在"},{"start":11056.24,"end":11058.24,"text":"未來執行這一類的計畫"},{"start":11058.24,"end":11060.24,"text":"的時候要更強調"},{"start":11060.24,"end":11062.24,"text":"那也凸顯了其實"},{"start":11062.24,"end":11064.24,"text":"世界的氣候"},{"start":11064.24,"end":11066.24,"text":"的暖化跟驟變"},{"start":11066.24,"end":11068.24,"text":"非常的強烈"},{"start":11068.24,"end":11070.24,"text":"以前我們的航海我們的祖先祖父級"},{"start":11070.24,"end":11072.24,"text":"可能他的"},{"start":11072.24,"end":11074.24,"text":"周期性的航海"},{"start":11074.24,"end":11076.24,"text":"不會遇到大強烈的西南"},{"start":11076.24,"end":11078.24,"text":"風浪但其實這幾年的"},{"start":11078.24,"end":11080.24,"text":"全球性的氣候確實有影響"},{"start":11080.24,"end":11082.24,"text":"在這一塊我們會再做講解"},{"start":11082.24,"end":11084.24,"text":"對今天報告我覺得應該要有"},{"start":11084.24,"end":11086.24,"text":"第二個就是說我們實際想要看到你們"},{"start":11086.24,"end":11088.24,"text":"的文化的交流的一個亮點在哪裡"},{"start":11088.24,"end":11090.24,"text":"然後現在的一個文化的一個"},{"start":11090.24,"end":11092.24,"text":"相同跟差異還有理念的一個"},{"start":11092.24,"end":11094.24,"text":"相同跟差異我覺得"},{"start":11094.24,"end":11096.24,"text":"應該也要呈現出來"},{"start":11096.24,"end":11098.24,"text":"才要知道說你們這次一個活動的真正的"},{"start":11098.24,"end":11100.24,"text":"目的是什麼可以讓"},{"start":11100.24,"end":11102.24,"text":"全世界的我們原住民族看到"},{"start":11102.24,"end":11104.24,"text":"好不好謝謝"},{"start":11104.24,"end":11106.24,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":11111.36,"end":11113.36,"text":"下一位請林憲奇委員發言資訊"},{"start":11122.51,"end":11124.51,"text":"好謝謝我們的主席廖昭偉"},{"start":11124.51,"end":11126.51,"text":"我們我先請"},{"start":11126.51,"end":11128.51,"text":"我們研會"},{"start":11128.51,"end":11130.51,"text":"我想"},{"start":11130.51,"end":11132.51,"text":"請文化"},{"start":11131.83,"end":11133.83,"text":"基金會的這個董事長"},{"start":11133.83,"end":11135.83,"text":"馬拉魯斯"},{"start":11140.87,"end":11142.87,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11141.73,"end":11143.73,"text":"你好"},{"start":11143.73,"end":11145.73,"text":"董事長你好那個今天的"},{"start":11145.73,"end":11147.73,"text":"這裡面有關於這個航海"},{"start":11147.73,"end":11149.73,"text":"文化最主要是就原文會"},{"start":11149.73,"end":11151.73,"text":"這邊來執行嘛"},{"start":11151.73,"end":11153.73,"text":"這一次整個經費的"},{"start":11153.73,"end":11155.73,"text":"主體呢是我們"},{"start":11155.73,"end":11157.73,"text":"蘭嶼的這個拼板舟航行"},{"start":11157.73,"end":11159.73,"text":"到巴丹島包括"},{"start":11159.73,"end":11161.73,"text":"潮州包括人才包括這個水手"},{"start":11161.73,"end":11163.73,"text":"包括整個航行"},{"start":11163.73,"end":11165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tart":11548.24,"end":11550.24,"text":"第二個部分是"},{"start":11550.24,"end":11552.24,"text":"我相信從土軍一直傳承下來"},{"start":11552.24,"end":11554.24,"text":"目前失去但是你們還沒有找回來"},{"start":11554.24,"end":11556.24,"text":"的是辨識整個天文"},{"start":11556.24,"end":11558.24,"text":"水上的知識"},{"start":11558.24,"end":11560.24,"text":"那我相信傳統的知識"},{"start":11560.24,"end":11562.24,"text":"是可用的氣候變遷"},{"start":11562.24,"end":11564.24,"text":"也是每段時期都在變化"},{"start":11564.24,"end":11566.24,"text":"但是你們沒有掌握這些東西"},{"start":11566.24,"end":11568.24,"text":"就讓大家在險境當中"},{"start":11568.24,"end":11570.24,"text":"這點不僅要檢討"},{"start":11570.24,"end":11572.24,"text":"也希望你未來應該要擴大"},{"start":11572.24,"end":11574.24,"text":"對於原住民族航海文化的"},{"start":11574.24,"end":11576.24,"text":"一個知識性"},{"start":11576.24,"end":11578.24,"text":"那要讓更多人來參與"},{"start":11578.24,"end":11580.24,"text":"那你們這樣一個專案似乎在"},{"start":11580.24,"end":11582.24,"text":"一開始就太狹隘了"},{"start":11582.24,"end":11584.24,"text":"好所以本期這邊要來"},{"start":11584.24,"end":11586.24,"text":"談一下你們經常跟海委會"},{"start":11586.24,"end":11588.24,"text":"海委會經理也有代表來"},{"start":11588.24,"end":11590.24,"text":"但是可能不是主要的這個"},{"start":11590.24,"end":11592.24,"text":"海委會的代表"},{"start":11592.11,"end":11594.11,"text":"對"},{"start":11593.12,"end":11595.12,"text":"也請您上來"},{"start":11595.21,"end":11597.21,"text":"那還有會跟這個原民會"},{"start":11597.21,"end":11599.21,"text":"你們在所有的這樣一個計畫的合作當中"},{"start":11599.21,"end":11601.21,"text":"應該更緊密"},{"start":11601.21,"end":11603.21,"text":"那不管是先前的帛琉"},{"start":11603.21,"end":11605.21,"text":"跟之後的這個"},{"start":11605.21,"end":11607.21,"text":"所謂"},{"start":11607.21,"end":11609.21,"text":"夏威夷的船要來"},{"start":11609.21,"end":11611.21,"text":"我們都希望這一點能夠"},{"start":11611.21,"end":11615.21,"text":"借重他們航行成功的航海知識"},{"start":11615.21,"end":11617.21,"text":"真的來教育我們台灣的"},{"start":11617.21,"end":11619.21,"text":"失去的航海文化"},{"start":11619.21,"end":11621.21,"text":"給"},{"start":11620.88,"end":11622.88,"text":"有興趣的人"},{"start":11622.88,"end":11624.88,"text":"那包括原住民常常海委會你們在"},{"start":11624.88,"end":11626.88,"text":"這些計畫當中原住民都被你們"},{"start":11626.88,"end":11628.88,"text":"排除在外或不知道"},{"start":11628.88,"end":11630.88,"text":"你們在透過這些船"},{"start":11630.88,"end":11632.88,"text":"來到這邊計畫的實踐的"},{"start":11632.88,"end":11634.88,"text":"一些相關的子計畫"},{"start":11634.88,"end":11636.88,"text":"本期希望你們在未來這兩艘"},{"start":11636.88,"end":11638.88,"text":"這一些一直來台灣的船"},{"start":11638.88,"end":11640.88,"text":"拿到政府的經費的同時"},{"start":11640.88,"end":11642.88,"text":"也應該真正實踐"},{"start":11642.88,"end":11644.88,"text":"台灣航海文化"},{"start":11644.88,"end":11646.88,"text":"人才的一個培育"},{"start":11646.88,"end":11648.88,"text":"這點希望兩個大會"},{"start":11648.88,"end":11650.88,"text":"是不是可以緊密的合作"},{"start":11650.88,"end":11652.88,"text":"尤其原民會你們應該要"},{"start":11652.88,"end":11654.88,"text":"拿到航海文化的話語權"},{"start":11654.88,"end":11656.88,"text":"跟主導權"},{"start":11656.86,"end":11658.86,"text":"好,那所以接下來本期"},{"start":11658.86,"end":11660.86,"text":"有很實際的建議,也就是說"},{"start":11661.85,"end":11663.85,"text":"原民會"},{"start":11663.17,"end":11665.17,"text":"包括這個原民會"},{"start":11665.17,"end":11667.17,"text":"你們是不是應該要專任輔導"},{"start":11667.17,"end":11669.17,"text":"東海岸的各鄉鎮跟各部落的"},{"start":11669.17,"end":11671.17,"text":"造船文化"},{"start":11671.17,"end":11673.17,"text":"而且要啟動實際的"},{"start":11673.17,"end":11675.17,"text":"航行計畫,我們就從比較"},{"start":11675.17,"end":11677.17,"text":"小的開始嘛,我們先把"},{"start":11677.17,"end":11679.17,"text":"傳統船附贈,然後真的"},{"start":11679.17,"end":11681.17,"text":"用一些比賽或用真正一些"},{"start":11681.17,"end":11683.17,"text":"航行的小計畫讓它"},{"start":11683.17,"end":11685.17,"text":"真正航行成功嘛"},{"start":11685.17,"end":11687.17,"text":"好不好,而不是一個很大的"},{"start":11687.17,"end":11689.17,"text":"計畫到最後你們成功的是"},{"start":11689.17,"end":11691.17,"text":"成功拖行"},{"start":11691.17,"end":11693.17,"text":"而沒有真的完成成功的航行"},{"start":11694.46,"end":11696.46,"text":"那這點有點遺憾跟可惜"},{"start":11696.46,"end":11698.46,"text":"所以是不是可以答應本期剛才"},{"start":11698.46,"end":11700.46,"text":"第一個建議,就是說我們真的來附贈"},{"start":11700.46,"end":11702.46,"text":"我們的造船文化,然後啟動"},{"start":11702.46,"end":11704.46,"text":"真正的實際航行"},{"start":11706.1,"end":11708.1,"text":"本期上次在那個院會"},{"start":11708.1,"end":11710.1,"text":"我想這個院長這邊也很關心"},{"start":11710.1,"end":11712.1,"text":"我們傳統項目"},{"start":11712.1,"end":11714.1,"text":"的一些競賽"},{"start":11714.1,"end":11716.1,"text":"所以本期有這樣一個建議"},{"start":11716.1,"end":11718.1,"text":"所以應該透過這種造船,讓真正"},{"start":11718.1,"end":11720.1,"text":"造船文化,包括東海岸很多嘛"},{"start":11720.1,"end":11722.1,"text":"那來源應該也是可以有這樣子的一個"},{"start":11722.1,"end":11724.1,"text":"比賽,只是說東海岸的海象"},{"start":11724.1,"end":11726.1,"text":"或許機會也是"},{"start":11726.1,"end":11728.1,"text":"比較大,所以是不是可以讓東海岸"},{"start":11728.1,"end":11730.1,"text":"的部落或鄉鎮來造船"},{"start":11730.1,"end":11732.1,"text":"以前都曾經有過"},{"start":11732.1,"end":11734.1,"text":"我們透過有的知識,造船知識"},{"start":11734.1,"end":11736.1,"text":"讓它附贈嘛"},{"start":11736.1,"end":11738.1,"text":"但最重要的是要實踐嘛"},{"start":11738.1,"end":11740.1,"text":"我們不能一時之在拖行嘛"},{"start":11740.07,"end":11742.07,"text":"好不好,不能把陸地上的那趟拿到海上好不好"},{"start":11743.6,"end":11745.6,"text":"好不好,那這個部分是不是可以請副座"},{"start":11745.6,"end":11747.6,"text":"承諾,因為"},{"start":11747.6,"end":11749.6,"text":"它不是太難做,而且應該是"},{"start":11749.6,"end":11751.6,"text":"面目偵測"},{"start":11751.6,"end":11753.6,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":11753.6,"end":11755.6,"text":"接下來就是原住民的這個航海學校"},{"start":11755.6,"end":11757.6,"text":"那你們應該在東海岸"},{"start":11757.6,"end":11759.6,"text":"或者是海洋的這個我們島嶼"},{"start":11759.6,"end":11761.6,"text":"建置一些航海的基地"},{"start":11761.6,"end":11763.6,"text":"那這點應該公部門來"},{"start":11763.6,"end":11765.6,"text":"強力的這個支撐嘛"},{"start":11765.6,"end":11767.6,"text":"那我們知道民間很多這樣子的一個"},{"start":11767.6,"end":11769.6,"text":"能量,但是如果你們沒有支撐的話"},{"start":11769.6,"end":11771.6,"text":"他們其實也很難做"},{"start":11771.6,"end":11773.6,"text":"所以是不是可以答應本席"},{"start":11773.6,"end":11775.6,"text":"把這些,真的有在投入的"},{"start":11777.35,"end":11779.35,"text":"這個海洋文化基地"},{"start":11779.19,"end":11781.19,"text":"讓透過公部門的一切支撐"},{"start":11781.19,"end":11783.19,"text":"讓專業的原住民的"},{"start":11783.19,"end":11785.19,"text":"南島的航海文化"},{"start":11785.19,"end":11787.19,"text":"能夠在這些基地實踐呢"},{"start":11788.55,"end":11790.55,"text":"我想委員提這個"},{"start":11790.55,"end":11792.55,"text":"我們會研議一個中長程計畫來進行"},{"start":11792.55,"end":11794.55,"text":"這樣的相關的事務"},{"start":11794.55,"end":11796.55,"text":"那接下來很重要的是這些舟艇船"},{"start":11796.55,"end":11798.55,"text":"造完了之後"},{"start":11798.55,"end":11800.55,"text":"到最後都爛在"},{"start":11800.55,"end":11802.55,"text":"外面了,所以本席也要跟文化部"},{"start":11802.55,"end":11804.55,"text":"文化部今天也是有相關的"},{"start":11804.55,"end":11806.55,"text":"代表嘛"},{"start":11806.55,"end":11808.55,"text":"文化部,首先要謝謝你們"},{"start":11808.55,"end":11810.55,"text":"對航海文化,現在各部會"},{"start":11810.55,"end":11812.55,"text":"都有很多計畫在進行"},{"start":11812.55,"end":11814.55,"text":"但是這個進行沒有讓"},{"start":11814.55,"end":11816.55,"text":"這個文化活起來"},{"start":11816.55,"end":11818.55,"text":"文化船的典藏"},{"start":11818.55,"end":11820.55,"text":"是不是你們也可以協助一下原民會"},{"start":11820.55,"end":11822.55,"text":"或協助目前已經有造成的"},{"start":11822.55,"end":11824.55,"text":"舟艇,應該有一些典藏的"},{"start":11826.06,"end":11828.06,"text":"可能性跟典藏的平台"},{"start":11828.06,"end":11830.06,"text":"那當它造出來了"},{"start":11830.06,"end":11832.06,"text":"那後來放在外面爛掉"},{"start":11832.06,"end":11834.06,"text":"實在很可惜,本席就看過了好幾艘"},{"start":11834.06,"end":11836.06,"text":"那唯一的好處就是本席"},{"start":11836.06,"end":11838.06,"text":"可以直接看到,但是看到都是"},{"start":11838.06,"end":11840.06,"text":"快要壞掉跟爛掉,然後我想你們"},{"start":11840.06,"end":11842.06,"text":"在典藏的一個專業上都知道"},{"start":11842.06,"end":11844.06,"text":"那一些溫度、濕度等等"},{"start":11844.06,"end":11846.06,"text":"那是讓這些能夠好好維持的"},{"start":11847.41,"end":11849.41,"text":"未來的一個文化的"},{"start":11849.41,"end":11851.41,"text":"文化面的這個典藏應該是很重要的吧"},{"start":11851.41,"end":11853.41,"text":"所以是不是可以請文化部"},{"start":11853.41,"end":11855.41,"text":"除了在展示以外"},{"start":11855.41,"end":11857.41,"text":"可以在典藏的部分協助一下原民會"},{"start":11857.41,"end":11859.41,"text":"那原民會你們最重要的就是"},{"start":11859.41,"end":11861.41,"text":"我們要讓這個海洋文化"},{"start":11861.41,"end":11863.41,"text":"附贈,不僅是海洋的知識"},{"start":11863.41,"end":11865.41,"text":"還有海洋的載具"},{"start":11865.41,"end":11867.41,"text":"最重要的是"},{"start":11867.41,"end":11869.41,"text":"它要活起來"},{"start":11869.41,"end":11871.41,"text":"因為全世界現在大家都還在航行"},{"start":11871.41,"end":11873.41,"text":"我相信我們一定是可以航行成功的"},{"start":11873.41,"end":11875.41,"text":"好不好"},{"start":11875.44,"end":11877.44,"text":"好,謝謝,那加油囉"},{"start":11886.95,"end":11888.95,"text":"下一位請王洪威委員發言資訊"},{"start":11897.11,"end":11899.11,"text":"好,謝謝主席"},{"start":11899.11,"end":11903.11,"text":"我請我們原委會"},{"start":11903.11,"end":11905.11,"text":"今天是副主委嘛,對不對"},{"start":11905.11,"end":11909.11,"text":"還有我們原民基金會的董事長"},{"start":11913.09,"end":11915.09,"text":"好,委員好"},{"start":11915.09,"end":11917.09,"text":"副主委,董事長"},{"start":11917.09,"end":11919.09,"text":"在你們今天的報告裡面"},{"start":11919.09,"end":11921.09,"text":"有特別提到在去年底"},{"start":11921.09,"end":11927.09,"text":"舉辦的世界原住民傳統運動會"},{"start":11927.09,"end":11929.09,"text":"但是呢,在我們的報告裡面"},{"start":11929.09,"end":11931.09,"text":"卻看不到"},{"start":11931.09,"end":11933.09,"text":"有關於我們這個"},{"start":11933.09,"end":11935.09,"text":"世元運動會的"},{"start":11935.89,"end":11937.89,"text":"那麼"},{"start":11937.32,"end":11939.32,"text":"在去年底我們舉辦之後"},{"start":11939.32,"end":11941.32,"text":"那麼未來"},{"start":11941.32,"end":11943.32,"text":"我們還會不會有"},{"start":11943.32,"end":11945.32,"text":"政策性推動的工作"},{"start":11945.32,"end":11947.32,"text":"因為在原民會也說"},{"start":11947.32,"end":11949.32,"text":"這不是原民會經常性的"},{"start":11949.32,"end":11951.32,"text":"業務預算"},{"start":11951.32,"end":11953.32,"text":"那就是一個執行單位"},{"start":11953.32,"end":11955.32,"text":"所以我想請問一下"},{"start":11955.32,"end":11957.32,"text":"我們在去年"},{"start":11957.32,"end":11959.32,"text":"這樣的一個特別辦理的"},{"start":11959.32,"end":11961.32,"text":"這個世元運"},{"start":11961.32,"end":11963.32,"text":"接下來我們原委會"},{"start":11963.32,"end":11965.32,"text":"還有沒有任何"},{"start":11965.32,"end":11967.32,"text":"政策性的規劃"},{"start":11967.32,"end":11969.32,"text":"比如說它會屬於常態性"},{"start":11969.32,"end":11971.32,"text":"或者兩年做一次"},{"start":11971.32,"end":11973.32,"text":"或者四年做一次的"},{"start":11973.32,"end":11975.32,"text":"這樣的任何的規劃嗎"},{"start":11975.95,"end":11977.95,"text":"各位報告,這一個"},{"start":11977.95,"end":11979.95,"text":"去年所辦的世界"},{"start":11979.95,"end":11981.95,"text":"傳統原住民運動會"},{"start":11981.95,"end":11983.95,"text":"後來在跟各個的國家"},{"start":11983.95,"end":11985.95,"text":"在文化加入上面"},{"start":11985.95,"end":11987.95,"text":"有很大的幫忙"},{"start":11987.95,"end":11989.95,"text":"那我們事實上也規劃"},{"start":11989.95,"end":11991.95,"text":"以後兩年一次"},{"start":11991.95,"end":11993.95,"text":"就是在116年我們也有相關的預算"},{"start":11993.95,"end":11995.95,"text":"來爭取來辦理這個運動會"},{"start":11995.95,"end":11997.95,"text":"所以未來它會屬於"},{"start":11997.95,"end":11999.95,"text":"兩年一次的常態性的"},{"start":11999.95,"end":12001.95,"text":"一個活動"},{"start":12001.95,"end":12003.95,"text":"對,因為"},{"start":12003.95,"end":12005.95,"text":"我們去年辦完了"},{"start":12005.95,"end":12007.95,"text":"我們當然要繼續去追蹤"},{"start":12007.95,"end":12009.95,"text":"你們認為花了也是八千多萬"},{"start":12009.95,"end":12011.95,"text":"那這樣的一個活動"},{"start":12011.95,"end":12013.95,"text":"到底它有沒有"},{"start":12013.95,"end":12015.95,"text":"繼續再帶下去的價值"},{"start":12015.95,"end":12017.95,"text":"因為我們之前沒有看到"},{"start":12017.95,"end":12019.95,"text":"你們有任何的"},{"start":12019.95,"end":12021.95,"text":"實際的規劃"},{"start":12021.95,"end":12023.95,"text":"另外"},{"start":12023.64,"end":12025.64,"text":"要請教一下"},{"start":12029.02,"end":12031.02,"text":"這個"},{"start":12030.44,"end":12032.44,"text":"我們副主委"},{"start":12032.68,"end":12034.68,"text":"大約一號"},{"start":12034.59,"end":12036.59,"text":"原住民卓日"},{"start":12036.55,"end":12038.55,"text":"那當然"},{"start":12038.55,"end":12040.55,"text":"我們有8月1號原住民卓日的活動"},{"start":12040.55,"end":12042.55,"text":"是很合理的"},{"start":12043.35,"end":12045.35,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":12045.35,"end":12047.35,"text":"以今年度"},{"start":12047.35,"end":12049.35,"text":"我們在原住民卓日"},{"start":12049.35,"end":12051.35,"text":"活動的勞務採購案裡面"},{"start":12051.35,"end":12053.35,"text":"絕標金額"},{"start":12053.35,"end":12055.35,"text":"高達1930萬元"},{"start":12057.74,"end":12059.74,"text":"高達1930萬元"},{"start":12060.41,"end":12062.41,"text":"如果跟去年"},{"start":12062.41,"end":12064.41,"text":"這個是每一年都有8月1號的原住民卓日"},{"start":12066.45,"end":12068.45,"text":"去年呢"},{"start":12068.45,"end":12070.45,"text":"只有290萬元"},{"start":12070.45,"end":12072.45,"text":"增加的比例是"},{"start":12072.45,"end":12076.45,"text":"565.65倍之多"},{"start":12077.38,"end":12079.38,"text":"第一個我想請問"},{"start":12079.38,"end":12081.38,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":12081.38,"end":12083.38,"text":"今年度的同樣"},{"start":12083.38,"end":12085.38,"text":"平都是原住民"},{"start":12085.62,"end":12087.62,"text":"主委"},{"start":12087.04,"end":12089.04,"text":"為什麼今年採購金額"},{"start":12089.04,"end":12091.04,"text":"突然暴增成這樣子"},{"start":12092.18,"end":12094.18,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":12094.18,"end":12096.18,"text":"第一個當然是時間沒有拉長"},{"start":12096.18,"end":12098.18,"text":"我們3天"},{"start":12098.18,"end":12100.18,"text":"那之前可能就是1天而已"},{"start":12100.18,"end":12102.18,"text":"為什麼今年變3天"},{"start":12101.67,"end":12103.67,"text":"為什麼以前的1天"},{"start":12103.67,"end":12105.67,"text":"跟那個台下"},{"start":12105.67,"end":12107.67,"text":"就是夏威夷合辦的"},{"start":12107.67,"end":12109.67,"text":"那他們"},{"start":12109.67,"end":12111.67,"text":"而且又是會裡面的30週年"},{"start":12111.67,"end":12113.67,"text":"所以我們這次比較擴大"},{"start":12113.67,"end":12115.67,"text":"今年特別擴大舉辦"},{"start":12115.67,"end":12117.67,"text":"因為我們是30週年原民會成立30週年"},{"start":12117.67,"end":12119.67,"text":"所以你看"},{"start":12119.98,"end":12121.98,"text":"我們的一個這個所謂的採購案"},{"start":12123.96,"end":12125.96,"text":"從109年開始"},{"start":12125.96,"end":12127.96,"text":"109年開始"},{"start":12127.96,"end":12129.96,"text":"除了114年"},{"start":12129.96,"end":12131.96,"text":"這個是最少290萬"},{"start":12133.29,"end":12135.29,"text":"除了這個114年是被一個"},{"start":12136.89,"end":12138.89,"text":"相差科技"},{"start":12138.89,"end":12140.89,"text":"事業股份有限公司"},{"start":12140.89,"end":12142.89,"text":"飆走之外"},{"start":12142.89,"end":12144.89,"text":"其他全面性的包含今年"},{"start":12144.89,"end":12146.89,"text":"恢復都是"},{"start":12146.89,"end":12148.89,"text":"山海關國際整合行銷公司"},{"start":12150.49,"end":12152.49,"text":"我講過其實我對於標案"},{"start":12152.49,"end":12154.49,"text":"我最在乎的"},{"start":12154.49,"end":12156.49,"text":"就是是不是過度集中"},{"start":12156.49,"end":12158.49,"text":"是不是連續"},{"start":12158.49,"end":12160.49,"text":"我們政府的預算"},{"start":12160.49,"end":12162.49,"text":"可以好多年都是"},{"start":12162.49,"end":12164.49,"text":"只有一個公司或一個"},{"start":12164.49,"end":12166.49,"text":"單位得標"},{"start":12166.49,"end":12168.49,"text":"我覺得這都是非常令人覺得"},{"start":12168.49,"end":12170.49,"text":"不可思議的"},{"start":12170.49,"end":12172.49,"text":"而且呢"},{"start":12171.95,"end":12173.95,"text":"為什麼114年度"},{"start":12173.95,"end":12175.95,"text":"就不是這個山海關國際行銷公司啊"},{"start":12177.84,"end":12179.84,"text":"月後我們發現"},{"start":12179.85,"end":12181.85,"text":"陳寅委員的助理"},{"start":12181.85,"end":12183.85,"text":"曾經在114年之前"},{"start":12183.85,"end":12185.85,"text":"曾經在114年之前"},{"start":12185.85,"end":12187.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12187.85,"end":12189.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12189.85,"end":12191.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12191.85,"end":12193.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12193.85,"end":12195.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12195.85,"end":12197.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12197.85,"end":12199.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12199.85,"end":12201.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12201.85,"end":12203.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12203.85,"end":12205.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12205.85,"end":12207.85,"text":"針對這個山海關國際公司"},{"start":12190.95,"end":12192.95,"text":"在他的社群做了很多的批評"},{"start":12192.95,"end":12194.95,"text":"在他的社群做了很多的批評"},{"start":12195.31,"end":12197.31,"text":"他有講說"},{"start":12197.31,"end":12199.31,"text":"聽說山海關國際行銷有限公司"},{"start":12199.31,"end":12201.31,"text":"是許多原民主管機關的愛用廠商"},{"start":12201.31,"end":12203.31,"text":"是許多原民主管機關的愛用廠商"},{"start":12203.31,"end":12205.31,"text":"然後hashtag"},{"start":12205.68,"end":12207.68,"text":"專門欺負原住民"},{"start":12207.68,"end":12209.68,"text":"或者他也有質疑說"},{"start":12209.68,"end":12211.68,"text":"或者他也有質疑說"},{"start":12211.68,"end":12213.68,"text":"山海關的吳宗山後台到底有多硬"},{"start":12213.68,"end":12215.68,"text":"他說好多好聽的故事都到我這裡了"},{"start":12215.68,"end":12217.68,"text":"他說好多好聽的故事都到我這裡了"},{"start":12217.68,"end":12219.68,"text":"感覺超銷商沒有在怕"},{"start":12220.59,"end":12222.59,"text":"我不知道是不是因為這樣"},{"start":12222.59,"end":12224.59,"text":"所以這整個你可以看到"},{"start":12224.59,"end":12226.59,"text":"所以這整個你可以看到"},{"start":12226.59,"end":12228.59,"text":"每一年都是這個山海關國際行銷公司"},{"start":12228.59,"end":12230.59,"text":"每一年都是這個山海關國際行銷公司"},{"start":12230.59,"end":12232.59,"text":"在標到唯獨在114年"},{"start":12232.59,"end":12234.59,"text":"你們不敢標給他了"},{"start":12234.59,"end":12236.59,"text":"但是金額都變得很低"},{"start":12236.59,"end":12238.59,"text":"但是金額都變得很低"},{"start":12238.59,"end":12240.59,"text":"你可以看到其他在114年之前"},{"start":12240.59,"end":12242.59,"text":"你可以看到其他在114年之前"},{"start":12242.59,"end":12244.59,"text":"都有契約變更"},{"start":12244.59,"end":12246.59,"text":"每一年的金額都遠遠大於"},{"start":12246.59,"end":12248.59,"text":"去年的290萬"},{"start":12248.59,"end":12250.59,"text":"然後今年決定擴大舉辦"},{"start":12250.59,"end":12252.59,"text":"然後今年決定擴大舉辦"},{"start":12252.59,"end":12254.59,"text":"讓我合理懷疑"},{"start":12254.59,"end":12256.59,"text":"是不是因為114年他沒有標到"},{"start":12256.59,"end":12258.59,"text":"所以今年再加金額"},{"start":12258.91,"end":12260.91,"text":"來辦"},{"start":12272.36,"end":12274.36,"text":"準備"},{"start":12273.84,"end":12275.84,"text":"我不懂耶"},{"start":12275.84,"end":12277.84,"text":"其他公司不能辦嗎"},{"start":12278.11,"end":12280.11,"text":"他們都沒有來標嗎"},{"start":12280.71,"end":12282.71,"text":"你們都跟我講說"},{"start":12282.71,"end":12284.71,"text":"按照採購"},{"start":12284.71,"end":12286.71,"text":"我們都按照採購程序"},{"start":12286.71,"end":12288.71,"text":"因為很多公司都知道"},{"start":12288.71,"end":12290.71,"text":"久了以後你們都有潛規則"},{"start":12290.71,"end":12292.71,"text":"他再來的時候"},{"start":12292.71,"end":12294.71,"text":"都只是來做陪榜"},{"start":12294.71,"end":12296.71,"text":"陪公子念書而已"},{"start":12296.71,"end":12298.71,"text":"所以造成一個"},{"start":12298.71,"end":12300.71,"text":"原住民族日"},{"start":12301.15,"end":12303.15,"text":"過度集中在某一家公司裡面"},{"start":12304.81,"end":12306.81,"text":"而且今年"},{"start":12306.81,"end":12308.81,"text":"爆增金額"},{"start":12308.81,"end":12310.81,"text":"金額可能是30年"},{"start":12310.77,"end":12312.77,"text":"到辦理的金額"},{"start":12312.77,"end":12314.77,"text":"就這樣爆增了"},{"start":12315.03,"end":12317.03,"text":"所以我們現在"},{"start":12317.03,"end":12319.03,"text":"有關於這些標案"},{"start":12319.54,"end":12321.54,"text":"我還是會繼續的去盯住啦"},{"start":12323.39,"end":12325.39,"text":"我覺得如果說"},{"start":12325.39,"end":12327.39,"text":"今天只是因為"},{"start":12327.39,"end":12329.39,"text":"當時陳寅委員的助理對這家公司"},{"start":12329.39,"end":12331.39,"text":"顯然他也應該聽到一些事情"},{"start":12331.39,"end":12333.39,"text":"他質疑了"},{"start":12333.39,"end":12335.39,"text":"所以你們那時候避風頭不敢給他"},{"start":12335.39,"end":12337.39,"text":"今年呢再給他"},{"start":12337.39,"end":12339.39,"text":"而且金額加碼這麼多"},{"start":12340.06,"end":12342.06,"text":"所以這些標案"},{"start":12342.06,"end":12344.06,"text":"都要已招公信"},{"start":12344.06,"end":12346.06,"text":"我把他列出來我相信"},{"start":12346.06,"end":12348.06,"text":"很多的委員會再做觀音看"},{"start":12348.3,"end":12350.3,"text":"大家都是行家"},{"start":12350.3,"end":12352.3,"text":"這場標案沒有貓膩"},{"start":12352.33,"end":12354.33,"text":"什麼才會擁抱你"},{"start":12354.33,"end":12356.33,"text":"所以我想請問一下"},{"start":12356.33,"end":12358.33,"text":"就是請我們的"},{"start":12358.33,"end":12360.33,"text":"這個委員會"},{"start":12360.33,"end":12362.33,"text":"能夠把這個相關"},{"start":12362.33,"end":12364.33,"text":"今年到底為什麼"},{"start":12364.33,"end":12366.33,"text":"你們要這樣大幅增加到將近兩千萬"},{"start":12368.14,"end":12372.14,"text":"然後又回覆給原來的公司去做成標"},{"start":12372.14,"end":12374.14,"text":"希望你能夠提供比較詳細的"},{"start":12374.14,"end":12376.14,"text":"這個書面報告給我們"},{"start":12376.14,"end":12378.14,"text":"否則的話"},{"start":12378.14,"end":12380.14,"text":"我們本來像我剛才一開始問"},{"start":12380.14,"end":12382.14,"text":"你們應該會"},{"start":12382.14,"end":12384.14,"text":"你們覺得有成效"},{"start":12384.14,"end":12386.14,"text":"有文化交流原住民的文化交流"},{"start":12386.14,"end":12388.14,"text":"我們其實也都會支持"},{"start":12388.14,"end":12390.14,"text":"但是不要去集中特別廠商"},{"start":12390.14,"end":12392.14,"text":"好不好"},{"start":12394.08,"end":12396.08,"text":"委員會之前前幾年"},{"start":12396.08,"end":12398.08,"text":"我就講說他可能是單一的"},{"start":12398.08,"end":12400.08,"text":"可能是行政會議可能是論壇"},{"start":12400.08,"end":12402.08,"text":"所以他的費用是比較低"},{"start":12402.08,"end":12404.08,"text":"但至於說三海關這個事實上"},{"start":12404.08,"end":12406.08,"text":"我們海上的採購法有時候來標註兩家一家"},{"start":12406.08,"end":12408.08,"text":"那個都可受公評"},{"start":12408.08,"end":12410.08,"text":"可以看那個標案的"},{"start":12410.08,"end":12412.08,"text":"他們實際這個內容"},{"start":12412.08,"end":12414.08,"text":"每一次的你們的集中"},{"start":12414.08,"end":12416.08,"text":"你們每一次的集中"},{"start":12416.08,"end":12418.08,"text":"通通都說可受"},{"start":12418.08,"end":12420.08,"text":"我已經跟你講了嘛"},{"start":12420.08,"end":12422.08,"text":"很多業者都已經知道了"},{"start":12422.08,"end":12424.08,"text":"現在看這樣子還知道"},{"start":12424.08,"end":12426.08,"text":"還要來標嗎每一次都三海關"},{"start":12426.08,"end":12428.08,"text":"對不對"},{"start":12428.08,"end":12430.08,"text":"每一次都三海關"},{"start":12430.08,"end":12432.08,"text":"而且還契約每一次都契約變更"},{"start":12432.08,"end":12434.08,"text":"換了一家公司就沒有契約變更了"},{"start":12434.08,"end":12436.08,"text":"經營的特別少也不會做契約變更"},{"start":12436.13,"end":12438.13,"text":"我不曉得你今年還會不會做契約變更"},{"start":12438.13,"end":12440.13,"text":"好不好"},{"start":12440.31,"end":12442.31,"text":"希望你們這些標案"},{"start":12442.61,"end":12444.61,"text":"要以招公信"},{"start":12444.61,"end":12446.61,"text":"不要每一次都特定的"},{"start":12446.61,"end":12448.61,"text":"就是集中在某一家公司上"},{"start":12448.61,"end":12450.61,"text":"好以上"},{"start":12450.93,"end":12452.93,"text":"這個我們會檢討"},{"start":12463.99,"end":12465.99,"text":"好現在處理臨時提案"},{"start":12465.99,"end":12467.99,"text":"共兩案請宣讀"},{"start":12467.89,"end":12471.89,"text":"臨時提案1 鑒於國家語言整體發展方案中"},{"start":12471.89,"end":12475.89,"text":"原住民族族語節目與影音製作計畫"},{"start":12475.89,"end":12477.89,"text":"跨國族語節目製播計畫"},{"start":12477.89,"end":12481.89,"text":"所編列經費應用於族語節目製播及人才培育之用"},{"start":12481.89,"end":12487.89,"text":"維基經典迷你劇遠洋時代及族語戲劇劇本爭議後"},{"start":12487.89,"end":12489.89,"text":"再度發聲以世界原住民族運動會為名"},{"start":12489.89,"end":12493.89,"text":"將族語節目製播經費支應與族語推廣"},{"start":12493.89,"end":12495.89,"text":"關聯性不足之賽事及周邊活動"},{"start":12495.89,"end":12497.89,"text":"已有經費用途偏離原定政策目的之疑慮"},{"start":12502.09,"end":12506.09,"text":"海陸南島與族航海計畫投入3850萬元"},{"start":12506.09,"end":12510.09,"text":"原定兩天一夜之航程最終縮短為約3小時"},{"start":12510.09,"end":12514.09,"text":"並發生船體受損及未完成原定航程等情形"},{"start":12514.09,"end":12516.09,"text":"事後卻仍以圓滿成功對外宣傳"},{"start":12516.09,"end":12522.09,"text":"相關檢討報告意味具體釐清決策規劃旅約管理及就責責任"},{"start":12523.15,"end":12529.15,"text":"有原住民族廣播電台訊源傳播及監控系統設備建置與相關基地台設置案"},{"start":12529.15,"end":12535.15,"text":"原預計10個月內完工歷經將近10年仍未完成"},{"start":12535.15,"end":12538.15,"text":"迄今意味見原文會就契約管理工程延宕"},{"start":12538.15,"end":12543.15,"text":"廠商違約驗收控管及相關人員責任提出完整說明"},{"start":12543.15,"end":12547.15,"text":"為釐清經費用途至合法性計畫執行是否符合政策目的"},{"start":12547.15,"end":12549.15,"text":"及相關責任歸屬"},{"start":12549.15,"end":12553.15,"text":"原住民族委員會及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會"},{"start":12553.15,"end":12557.15,"text":"於一個月內辦理下列事項並書面含附立法院內政委員會"},{"start":12557.15,"end":12562.15,"text":"一主案說明預算來源核定計畫實際支用項目"},{"start":12562.15,"end":12565.15,"text":"經而及其與足以政策目的關聯性"},{"start":12565.15,"end":12570.15,"text":"二檢討個案規劃採購旅約驗收及監督及督導過程"},{"start":12570.15,"end":12575.15,"text":"並釐清原文會成辦人員及旅約廠商自責任"},{"start":12575.15,"end":12578.15,"text":"三、針對旅約情形計畫延宕"},{"start":12579.42,"end":12585.42,"text":"二、執行成果為符預期及經費使用缺失情形核定提出檢討"},{"start":12585.42,"end":12586.42,"text":"四、"},{"start":12586.79,"end":12591.79,"text":"提出具體改善措施包括經費控管重大計畫風險評估旅約查核"},{"start":12591.79,"end":12595.79,"text":"私訊公開及究責機制避免類似情形再次發生"},{"start":12595.79,"end":12599.79,"text":"五、請原文會說明上開一至四"},{"start":12599.79,"end":12605.79,"text":"取原文會說明監督原文會之改善情形提案人高晶素梅等人"},{"start":12605.79,"end":12606.79,"text":"臨時提案二"},{"start":12606.79,"end":12607.79,"text":"有鑑於援助"},{"start":12608.78,"end":12616.78,"text":"民人口自一百一十四年至一百一十五年六月底增加近二點六萬人增幅約四百分之四點二四"},{"start":12616.78,"end":12622.78,"text":"然原住民主委員會卻未同步向行政院爭取相應之預算及人力資源"},{"start":12622.78,"end":12629.78,"text":"現有各項原住民主政策福利及補助資源恐因服務對象持續增加而遭稀釋"},{"start":12629.78,"end":12631.78,"text":"影響既有族人權益"},{"start":12631.78,"end":12638.78,"text":"就目前審議之原住民主原住民身份法修正草案意味建原民會就各項修法可能增加"},{"start":12638.78,"end":12645.78,"text":"資源住民族人口各項福利政策影響所需預算規模中央及地方政府配套措施"},{"start":12645.78,"end":12651.78,"text":"以及各部會應辦事項進行完整評估恐影響後續政策推動及財政規劃"},{"start":12651.78,"end":12659.78,"text":"據此原請原住民主委員會於兩個月內完成整體影響評估並以書面送至立法院內政委員會內容"},{"start":12659.78,"end":12661.78,"text":"其中兩項評估包括"},{"start":12661.78,"end":12664.78,"text":"一近兩年原住民主人口增加情形及未來人口推估"},{"start":12664.78,"end":12666.78,"text":"二希拉亞族及其他評估原住民族"},{"start":12667.67,"end":12671.67,"text":"族群納入後各項政策福利及服務對象增加情形"},{"start":12671.67,"end":12678.67,"text":"三原住民身份法修正後可能增加人口數各項預算需求及財政影響分析"},{"start":12678.67,"end":12684.67,"text":"四各部會因新增原住民族人口應配合辦理事項經費需求及分工規劃"},{"start":12684.67,"end":12691.67,"text":"五原住原民會向行政院爭取新增預算及人力資源之具體規劃與期程"},{"start":12692.48,"end":12694.48,"text":"提案人高晶素梅等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":12696.46,"end":12698.46,"text":"好 兩岸應該都公通過了嘛"},{"start":12698.46,"end":12700.46,"text":"請問提案委員有要說明的嗎"},{"start":12713.08,"end":12717.08,"text":"好 臨時提案第二個我大概說明一下"},{"start":12717.08,"end":12720.08,"text":"我是覺得這個大家的想法是很好"},{"start":12720.08,"end":12723.08,"text":"但是呢大家要審慎評估一下"},{"start":12723.08,"end":12728.08,"text":"就是我們原住民身份法的修正草案如果OK的話"},{"start":12728.08,"end":12733.08,"text":"那個基層的民意代表可能會影響到"},{"start":12733.74,"end":12736.74,"text":"那是不是其他的委員也能夠支持"},{"start":12736.74,"end":12739.74,"text":"因為人口增加了我們大家地方選舉"},{"start":12739.74,"end":12742.74,"text":"包括代表代表議員"},{"start":12742.74,"end":12745.74,"text":"所以我今天這個臨時提案就是希望"},{"start":12746.38,"end":12752.38,"text":"這個原民會能夠完整的提出以下的幾點大家沒有想到的"},{"start":12752.38,"end":12753.38,"text":"包括"},{"start":12753.26,"end":12755.26,"text":"財政的增加"},{"start":12755.88,"end":12758.88,"text":"我們的政府行政院是不是能夠多給我們"},{"start":12758.88,"end":12760.88,"text":"那這些如果都沒有考量到的話"},{"start":12760.88,"end":12764.88,"text":"我覺得修法其實真的會影響蠻大的"},{"start":12764.88,"end":12770.88,"text":"所以以上提供這個臨時提案的1、2、3、4、5項"},{"start":12770.88,"end":12772.88,"text":"供在場的委員們參考"},{"start":12772.88,"end":12774.88,"text":"也請原民會參考 謝謝"},{"start":12781.02,"end":12785.02,"text":"主委就按照剛才你們要回應嗎"},{"start":12785.93,"end":12787.93,"text":"沒事 不會照顧"},{"start":12792.16,"end":12796.16,"text":"一般說明一下剛高進委員講的臨時提案第二案"},{"start":12797.1,"end":12799.1,"text":"委員這個說明這個"},{"start":12799.1,"end":12803.1,"text":"希望我們提供書面報告這樣的一個評估的作業"},{"start":12803.1,"end":12805.1,"text":"事實上涉及的非常廣泛"},{"start":12805.1,"end":12809.1,"text":"那我們是希望說是不是有可能給我們再多一點的時間"},{"start":12809.1,"end":12813.1,"text":"因為兩個月可能這些東西要去規劃出來有困難"},{"start":12814.7,"end":12816.7,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":12815.87,"end":12817.87,"text":"今天要修法了"},{"start":12818.45,"end":12820.45,"text":"時間我們有意見了"},{"start":12820.45,"end":12824.45,"text":"當然就是你們一定要完整的這些評估報告"},{"start":12824.45,"end":12826.45,"text":"還有這些"},{"start":12826.45,"end":12828.45,"text":"我覺得就是你可能要問一下"},{"start":12828.45,"end":12831.45,"text":"在場的其他的提案人員他們的意見"},{"start":12831.45,"end":12834.45,"text":"因為今天有其他的委員要審身分法"},{"start":12834.45,"end":12838.45,"text":"然後其實具體真的是會有影響的"},{"start":12838.45,"end":12840.45,"text":"因為我們之前協調相關法案"},{"start":12840.45,"end":12845.45,"text":"我們有講過我們大概118個法規命令或法律要做調整"},{"start":12845.45,"end":12847.45,"text":"那我們9月30號會回收"},{"start":12847.45,"end":12849.45,"text":"那你希望得久"},{"start":12850.73,"end":12852.73,"text":"你希望得久"},{"start":12854.53,"end":12856.53,"text":"提案2"},{"start":12856.53,"end":12858.53,"text":"對提案2的部分"},{"start":12858.53,"end":12860.53,"text":"對你希望得久"},{"start":12861.5,"end":12863.5,"text":"我上面寫兩個月"},{"start":12863.5,"end":12865.5,"text":"你們剛剛我提的說你們沒有意見"},{"start":12865.5,"end":12867.5,"text":"所以現在是有意見是嗎"},{"start":12867.5,"end":12869.5,"text":"我希望給我們多一點時間"},{"start":12869.5,"end":12871.5,"text":"OK沒問題啊"},{"start":12871.5,"end":12873.5,"text":"我覺得真的是要好好評估了"},{"start":12873.5,"end":12875.5,"text":"如果你們要負責任的"},{"start":12875.5,"end":12880.5,"text":"把12345我們盡可能考慮到想像到未來會"},{"start":12880.5,"end":12883.5,"text":"這樣子修法才是負責任的修法"},{"start":12883.5,"end":12885.5,"text":"好嗎謝謝"},{"start":12885.22,"end":12887.22,"text":"你還會影響到選舉"},{"start":12887.22,"end":12889.22,"text":"議員的選舉代表的選舉"},{"start":12890.12,"end":12894.12,"text":"大家還記得嗎我們在修那個議員的選舉還代表選舉的時候"},{"start":12894.12,"end":12897.12,"text":"在這個地方我們就討論了好多"},{"start":12897.12,"end":12900.12,"text":"光是增加一席增加兩席"},{"start":12900.12,"end":12902.12,"text":"就會整個影響到了"},{"start":12902.69,"end":12904.69,"text":"所以我認為大家還是要負責任的修法"},{"start":12904.69,"end":12906.69,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12910.44,"end":12913.44,"text":"好謝謝啦這個本來就應該尊重高經委員這邊"},{"start":12913.44,"end":12916.44,"text":"而且我覺得他提出這個臨時提案2的內容"},{"start":12916.44,"end":12918.44,"text":"本來也是要面對啦"},{"start":12918.44,"end":12922.44,"text":"只是說你要多少時間我們當然也希望不要拖太久"},{"start":12922.44,"end":12925.44,"text":"就尊重委員會這邊那我們就同意三個月"},{"start":12925.44,"end":12928.44,"text":"之外呢我想要對臨時提案1"},{"start":12928.44,"end":12930.44,"text":"剛剛"},{"start":12930.44,"end":12932.44,"text":"臨時提案1的內容"},{"start":12932.44,"end":12934.44,"text":"我想要給一點建議"},{"start":12934.44,"end":12936.44,"text":"就是說好像跟我剛剛跟我質詢的"},{"start":12938.28,"end":12941.28,"text":"好像這個想像相反的啦"},{"start":12942.95,"end":12943.95,"text":"文化"},{"start":12944.94,"end":12945.94,"text":"活動"},{"start":12946.13,"end":12947.13,"text":"內容"},{"start":12947.34,"end":12948.34,"text":"成功"},{"start":12948.34,"end":12949.34,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":12950.55,"end":12952.55,"text":"甚至我是有期待的"},{"start":12952.55,"end":12955.55,"text":"那高經委員提出來要檢討的內容我覺得要"},{"start":12955.55,"end":12957.55,"text":"要檢討要檢討沒有錯"},{"start":12957.55,"end":12959.55,"text":"但是我覺得"},{"start":12959.55,"end":12964.55,"text":"這個運動會跟推廣跟自播節目計畫"},{"start":12965.85,"end":12966.85,"text":"他應該是一個"},{"start":12966.85,"end":12967.85,"text":"啊主委回來了"},{"start":12969.35,"end":12970.35,"text":"辛苦了"},{"start":12970.35,"end":12973.35,"text":"這應該是一個正面的東西"},{"start":12973.35,"end":12976.35,"text":"所以我們是不是可以主席容我們"},{"start":12976.35,"end":12978.35,"text":"跟這個委員會"},{"start":12978.35,"end":12981.35,"text":"跟高經委我們一起來對這個臨時提案1的內容"},{"start":12981.35,"end":12983.35,"text":"我們來做一個討論好不好"},{"start":12988.35,"end":12992.35,"text":"剛剛委員會其實有針對臨時提案1"},{"start":12992.35,"end":12995.35,"text":"的第三個部分他已經有"},{"start":12995.35,"end":12996.35,"text":"有修正了"},{"start":12997.53,"end":13000.53,"text":"來來來過來休息討論一下好不好"},{"start":13000.53,"end":13003.53,"text":"主委還是那個其他委員有意見"},{"start":13006.52,"end":13008.52,"text":"好"},{"start":13011.23,"end":13012.23,"text":"對我來講"},{"start":13012.23,"end":13013.23,"text":"因為"},{"start":13014.1,"end":13019.1,"text":"我聽起來上次的詢答跟今天的詢答"},{"start":13019.1,"end":13023.1,"text":"很多的委員好像都很肯定"},{"start":13023.1,"end":13027.1,"text":"也希望有永續性未來性"},{"start":13027.1,"end":13031.1,"text":"那也願意在經費的分裂上"},{"start":13031.1,"end":13033.1,"text":"鼓勵原民會支持原民會"},{"start":13033.1,"end":13037.1,"text":"不過跟到這個臨時提案的內容"},{"start":13037.1,"end":13039.1,"text":"我其實對下面"},{"start":13039.1,"end":13043.1,"text":"以書面含附的部分1 2 3 4 5"},{"start":13043.1,"end":13046.1,"text":"我個人是覺得這個沒有問題"},{"start":13046.1,"end":13050.1,"text":"但是有希望是不是前面的那個文字"},{"start":13050.1,"end":13051.1,"text":"能夠改一下"},{"start":13051.1,"end":13054.1,"text":"就像剛才大家所提到的"},{"start":13054.1,"end":13056.1,"text":"好像有點背離"},{"start":13056.1,"end":13058.1,"text":"所以以我個人來講"},{"start":13058.1,"end":13059.1,"text":"我所知道的"},{"start":13060.4,"end":13063.4,"text":"其實以這個海陸南島宇族航海計畫"},{"start":13064.52,"end":13067.52,"text":"這個我記得有好幾年前就開始協助"},{"start":13067.52,"end":13071.52,"text":"各位了解經費的取得相當不容易"},{"start":13071.52,"end":13073.52,"text":"非常的不容易"},{"start":13073.52,"end":13076.52,"text":"所以才會拖這麼多年"},{"start":13076.87,"end":13079.87,"text":"甚至那個巴丹島的省長副省長"},{"start":13079.87,"end":13081.87,"text":"他們有來訪也關心"},{"start":13083.18,"end":13086.18,"text":"那最後文化部有心給錢"},{"start":13086.18,"end":13089.18,"text":"反而是原民會是最後"},{"start":13089.18,"end":13090.18,"text":"因為我們想說"},{"start":13090.18,"end":13092.18,"text":"這個是我們原住民的活動"},{"start":13092.18,"end":13095.18,"text":"人家文化部都已經願意支持了"},{"start":13095.18,"end":13097.18,"text":"那原民會不支持也不行"},{"start":13097.18,"end":13100.18,"text":"所以我知道的是經費取得不容易"},{"start":13100.18,"end":13102.18,"text":"而且我也跨部會"},{"start":13102.18,"end":13104.18,"text":"十個部會協調過兩次"},{"start":13104.18,"end":13106.18,"text":"因為航海"},{"start":13106.18,"end":13109.18,"text":"其實要處理的問題非常的多"},{"start":13109.18,"end":13112.18,"text":"所以我覺得下面那個要所資的部分"},{"start":13112.18,"end":13114.18,"text":"我覺得倒沒有什麼意見"},{"start":13114.18,"end":13117.18,"text":"可是我覺得前面的那個文字敘述"},{"start":13117.18,"end":13121.18,"text":"好像有一點不是那麼理想"},{"start":13121.18,"end":13123.18,"text":"所以我也是建議說"},{"start":13123.18,"end":13125.18,"text":"那就文字修正的部分"},{"start":13125.18,"end":13126.18,"text":"大家可以討論"},{"start":13126.18,"end":13127.18,"text":"我服用那個"},{"start":13127.18,"end":13128.18,"text":"我可以召我"},{"start":13128.18,"end":13129.18,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13129.18,"end":13131.18,"text":"我是必須要說清楚一下"},{"start":13131.18,"end":13133.18,"text":"這個臨時提案"},{"start":13133.18,"end":13135.18,"text":"剛剛我們在質詢的時候"},{"start":13135.72,"end":13138.72,"text":"原民會教人處處長講得很清楚"},{"start":13138.72,"end":13139.72,"text":"這兩個活動"},{"start":13139.72,"end":13141.72,"text":"原住民日跟航海日"},{"start":13141.72,"end":13147.72,"text":"用的都是國家語言整體發展方案裡面的錢"},{"start":13148.56,"end":13151.56,"text":"當然原民會或原民會"},{"start":13151.56,"end":13153.56,"text":"你們想要辦任何一個活動"},{"start":13153.56,"end":13155.56,"text":"我們都全力支持"},{"start":13155.56,"end":13159.56,"text":"但是你不能夠把A的錢放到B的錢"},{"start":13159.56,"end":13162.56,"text":"甚至於我還非常樂意支持"},{"start":13162.56,"end":13165.56,"text":"以後全世界原住民的運動會"},{"start":13165.56,"end":13168.56,"text":"請原民會你就每年編公運算"},{"start":13168.56,"end":13171.56,"text":"然後其他的部會我們也幫你爭取預算"},{"start":13171.56,"end":13174.56,"text":"讓他每年每年的來做"},{"start":13174.56,"end":13177.56,"text":"而不是像現在你想到什麼要做什麼"},{"start":13177.56,"end":13179.56,"text":"那陳玉哥吳立華有人說的"},{"start":13179.56,"end":13182.56,"text":"111年文化部已經要給這筆錢了"},{"start":13182.56,"end":13186.56,"text":"就表示已經很早以前在講這個事情了"},{"start":13186.56,"end":13188.56,"text":"為什麼要在115年的時候"},{"start":13188.56,"end":13194.56,"text":"用國家語言整體方案的錢來命這些事情呢"},{"start":13194.56,"end":13196.56,"text":"所以其實我不是"},{"start":13197.8,"end":13199.8,"text":"不支持這兩個方案"},{"start":13199.8,"end":13200.8,"text":"我都很好"},{"start":13200.8,"end":13205.8,"text":"但是希望原民會回歸到你們的預算體制"},{"start":13206.17,"end":13208.17,"text":"國家語言整體發展方案"},{"start":13208.17,"end":13211.17,"text":"其實我們都知道它是四年計畫"},{"start":13212.04,"end":13213.04,"text":"處長是不是"},{"start":13213.88,"end":13215.88,"text":"每一年四年計畫"},{"start":13215.88,"end":13217.88,"text":"這四年計畫你們都要跟行政院報"},{"start":13217.88,"end":13219.88,"text":"還是它已經要結束了"},{"start":13222.49,"end":13223.49,"text":"對 好"},{"start":13223.49,"end":13225.49,"text":"如果是這樣的話"},{"start":13225.49,"end":13227.49,"text":"那你們能不能跟行政院開個會"},{"start":13227.49,"end":13231.49,"text":"以後這個所謂的這個海陸"},{"start":13231.49,"end":13234.49,"text":"還有原住民的這個運動會"},{"start":13235.63,"end":13238.63,"text":"希望行政院另外不再預算給你們"},{"start":13238.63,"end":13241.63,"text":"而不要用這個主語的這個部分嗎"},{"start":13241.63,"end":13243.63,"text":"國家語言整體方案嗎"},{"start":13243.63,"end":13246.63,"text":"我覺得這是不對的 好嗎"},{"start":13247.94,"end":13249.94,"text":"來 你們說明一下"},{"start":13250.84,"end":13251.84,"text":"很好啊"},{"start":13251.84,"end":13252.84,"text":"那就很好啊"},{"start":13252.84,"end":13256.84,"text":"那就跟今天的臨時提案就沒有相衝突啊"},{"start":13257.81,"end":13260.81,"text":"那就透過這個提案就行了不是嗎"},{"start":13260.81,"end":13261.81,"text":"主席"},{"start":13262.95,"end":13265.95,"text":"今天早上坐在這裡到現在"},{"start":13267.22,"end":13269.22,"text":"我仔細再聽了"},{"start":13269.82,"end":13271.82,"text":"兩邊講法利好"},{"start":13273.3,"end":13275.3,"text":"我聽到林建錡委員"},{"start":13275.91,"end":13278.91,"text":"說明以後我才知道說原來有這麼長的拖形"},{"start":13280.27,"end":13282.27,"text":"我現在跟各位報告"},{"start":13283.52,"end":13285.52,"text":"我們的祖先真的很偉大"},{"start":13286.76,"end":13288.76,"text":"我看這個是英文的文獻"},{"start":13289.4,"end":13290.4,"text":"這都不做可能"},{"start":13291.68,"end":13292.68,"text":"還有"},{"start":13298.93,"end":13302.93,"text":"我們300多年前的祖先要行行到萬丹"},{"start":13303.84,"end":13305.84,"text":"他們躺在獨木桌上"},{"start":13307.35,"end":13308.35,"text":"靠他的背"},{"start":13309.83,"end":13310.83,"text":"感覺海浪"},{"start":13311.5,"end":13313.5,"text":"他知道這個是順瀏海"},{"start":13313.83,"end":13318.83,"text":"是牛坡還是濾流撞到海島再回來的坡"},{"start":13319.79,"end":13323.79,"text":"所以我們原文會太小看我們的祖先"},{"start":13323.79,"end":13325.79,"text":"所以你貿然出海才會造成這樣子"},{"start":13327.82,"end":13330.82,"text":"所以今天我客觀我第三檔"},{"start":13332.63,"end":13333.63,"text":"這個文字"},{"start":13334.61,"end":13337.61,"text":"可能需要對原文會有所"},{"start":13339.2,"end":13340.2,"text":"加油一下"},{"start":13340.92,"end":13342.92,"text":"但是也不要過客"},{"start":13342.91,"end":13344.91,"text":"因為我們太小看我們的祖先"},{"start":13346.72,"end":13347.72,"text":"我們"},{"start":13348.19,"end":13350.19,"text":"難道宇族從台灣到"},{"start":13350.19,"end":13353.19,"text":"剛才我第一個質詢那個麻豆"},{"start":13353.64,"end":13354.64,"text":"那個麻豆就是"},{"start":13355.61,"end":13357.61,"text":"難道宇族所共用的眼睛"},{"start":13358.69,"end":13359.69,"text":"如果行行到"},{"start":13361.05,"end":13363.05,"text":"那個自立外海的火地島"},{"start":13364.19,"end":13365.19,"text":"那是用跳島的"},{"start":13366.4,"end":13368.4,"text":"而美軍在二次大戰"},{"start":13369.33,"end":13371.33,"text":"就是用這個道理"},{"start":13372.41,"end":13374.41,"text":"逆向回攻日本本土"},{"start":13375.14,"end":13379.14,"text":"所以各位我們都要知道這些祖先的歷史跟智慧"},{"start":13379.43,"end":13381.43,"text":"所以我們今天兩邊坦白講"},{"start":13381.43,"end":13383.43,"text":"講的都有道理"},{"start":13383.53,"end":13385.53,"text":"我們用著裝的"},{"start":13386.6,"end":13387.6,"text":"著裝的"},{"start":13391.14,"end":13393.14,"text":"我不知道要改什麼文字"},{"start":13393.14,"end":13394.14,"text":"對啊"},{"start":13394.14,"end":13395.14,"text":"你們總算會翻出來吧"},{"start":13395.14,"end":13397.14,"text":"原文會主委都說OK啊"},{"start":13397.14,"end":13399.14,"text":"所以請問一下"},{"start":13399.14,"end":13400.14,"text":"星期"},{"start":13400.14,"end":13401.14,"text":"星期一確認"},{"start":13401.14,"end":13402.14,"text":"他們在台北溝通"},{"start":13402.14,"end":13403.14,"text":"對"},{"start":13403.14,"end":13404.14,"text":"主委"},{"start":13404.82,"end":13406.82,"text":"臨時提案一"},{"start":13406.82,"end":13410.82,"text":"大家看一下那些文字就是原文會修的"},{"start":13411.94,"end":13413.94,"text":"他們說沒有問題啊"},{"start":13413.94,"end":13417.94,"text":"所以不知道現在在場的文字委員還有什麼意見"},{"start":13419.1,"end":13421.1,"text":"對 那是他們修的 我OK啊"},{"start":13423.45,"end":13425.45,"text":"來啦 主席 讓他們溝通一下"},{"start":13430.88,"end":13431.88,"text":"哦"},{"start":13437.75,"end":13438.75,"text":"啊"},{"start":13440.21,"end":13441.21,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":13441.21,"end":13443.21,"text":"那個第一是全"},{"start":13443.21,"end":13444.21,"text":"一是全原"},{"start":13444.21,"end":13446.21,"text":"二是事實上"},{"start":13446.21,"end":13449.21,"text":"國家語言整體發展方案"},{"start":13449.21,"end":13451.21,"text":"的確不是用在這裡"},{"start":13451.21,"end":13453.21,"text":"好不好 不可以這樣子"},{"start":13453.21,"end":13455.21,"text":"這個最重要就是說"},{"start":13455.21,"end":13457.21,"text":"語言的程度"},{"start":13457.21,"end":13458.21,"text":"發展語言"},{"start":13458.21,"end":13459.21,"text":"發展主語言"},{"start":13459.21,"end":13462.21,"text":"而且現在我們有多少的主語老師"},{"start":13462.21,"end":13465.21,"text":"或者是家庭的主語的發展"},{"start":13465.21,"end":13467.21,"text":"我們現在都還非常的困難"},{"start":13468.83,"end":13471.83,"text":"你不可以拿A的錢去做B的事情"},{"start":13471.83,"end":13473.83,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13478.89,"end":13482.89,"text":"主席 拜託主委去溝通一下"},{"start":13482.89,"end":13484.89,"text":"很快啦 應該你們的重點就在於"},{"start":13484.89,"end":13486.89,"text":"最後一句話而已嘛"},{"start":13487.29,"end":13489.29,"text":"已有經費用戶"},{"start":13490.09,"end":13492.09,"text":"偏離原定之"},{"start":13492.09,"end":13496.09,"text":"對 它並不是在批評嘛"},{"start":13497.77,"end":13499.77,"text":"這並不是一個譴責的"},{"start":13499.77,"end":13501.77,"text":"類似譴責案這樣嘛"},{"start":13501.77,"end":13503.77,"text":"不是這樣的概念嘛"},{"start":13504.38,"end":13505.38,"text":"是"},{"start":13506.33,"end":13509.33,"text":"所以原民會覺得OK的話"},{"start":13509.33,"end":13511.33,"text":"是不是就"},{"start":13511.33,"end":13514.33,"text":"就依照原本的修正"},{"start":13514.33,"end":13516.33,"text":"意見通過這樣子"},{"start":13519.1,"end":13520.1,"text":"什麼"},{"start":13523.24,"end":13524.24,"text":"對"},{"start":13524.24,"end":13526.24,"text":"看到第一段我就覺得是不肯定的"},{"start":13526.24,"end":13528.24,"text":"不是"},{"start":13528.24,"end":13530.24,"text":"看到第一段我就覺得是不肯定的"},{"start":13530.24,"end":13532.24,"text":"對"},{"start":13532.24,"end":13534.24,"text":"修了喔 好"},{"start":13534.24,"end":13536.24,"text":"修了 修了 修了"},{"start":13536.24,"end":13538.24,"text":"修了"},{"start":13538.13,"end":13540.13,"text":"他是修上面那一句"},{"start":13541.02,"end":13543.02,"text":"E.R.A.T"},{"start":13542.24,"end":13544.24,"text":"對 說明關聯性"},{"start":13544.24,"end":13546.24,"text":"因為大家都覺得有關聯性啦"},{"start":13547.64,"end":13549.64,"text":"因為這個族語推廣的經費"},{"start":13549.64,"end":13551.64,"text":"它會連結到很多"},{"start":13551.64,"end":13553.64,"text":"接受嗎"},{"start":13553,"end":13555,"text":"對 好 我覺得OK吧"},{"start":13564.05,"end":13566.05,"text":"將族語節目制播的經費"},{"start":13566.05,"end":13568.05,"text":"均應於族語的推廣"},{"start":13569.49,"end":13571.49,"text":"予以檢討"},{"start":13571.49,"end":13573.49,"text":"並說明其關聯性"},{"start":13573.49,"end":13575.49,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13575.49,"end":13577.49,"text":"那我覺得國家語言整體"},{"start":13577.49,"end":13579.49,"text":"發展方案"},{"start":13579.49,"end":13581.49,"text":"我們希望"},{"start":13581.49,"end":13583.49,"text":"你下次不要再這樣的做"},{"start":13583.49,"end":13585.49,"text":"這兩件事情都非常好"},{"start":13585.49,"end":13587.49,"text":"請你們跟行政院"},{"start":13587.49,"end":13589.49,"text":"另外拿預算"},{"start":13589.49,"end":13591.49,"text":"不要再族語上面的錢去用"},{"start":13591.49,"end":13593.49,"text":"好不好 謝謝"},{"start":13593.49,"end":13595.49,"text":"我們給人家的也支持"},{"start":13595.49,"end":13597.49,"text":"好 那就繼續"},{"start":13597.49,"end":13599.49,"text":"那議程就繼續囉"},{"start":13599.49,"end":13601.49,"text":"我們給人家也支持原住民"},{"start":13601.49,"end":13603.49,"text":"阿嬤要玩的"},{"start":13603.49,"end":13605.49,"text":"好 我要繼續囉"},{"start":13605.49,"end":13607.49,"text":"好"},{"start":13608.32,"end":13610.32,"text":"好 我們第一案及第二案"},{"start":13611.71,"end":13613.71,"text":"照修正通過"},{"start":13615.52,"end":13617.52,"text":"沒有 我們中午不休息"},{"start":13617.52,"end":13619.52,"text":"繼續開會喔"},{"start":13619.39,"end":13621.39,"text":"登記質詢委員"},{"start":13621.39,"end":13623.39,"text":"除不在場者外其餘均已質詢完畢"},{"start":13623.39,"end":13625.39,"text":"委員訊答結束"},{"start":13625.39,"end":13627.39,"text":"委員張志倫 徐興盈"},{"start":13627.39,"end":13629.39,"text":"所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報"},{"start":13629.39,"end":13631.39,"text":"書面質詢和未及答覆部分"},{"start":13631.39,"end":13633.39,"text":"請相關單位於一周內"},{"start":13633.39,"end":13635.39,"text":"以書面答覆並複製本會"},{"start":13642.37,"end":13644.37,"text":"好 報告委員會 現在進行法案審查"},{"start":13644.37,"end":13646.37,"text":"請宣讀討論事項所有條文"},{"start":13647.7,"end":13649.7,"text":"修正動議"},{"start":13650.17,"end":13652.17,"text":"請宣讀"},{"start":13652.17,"end":13654.17,"text":"整個過程大概十分鐘"},{"start":13654.17,"end":13656.17,"text":"大家可以趁這段時間休息"},{"start":13656.75,"end":13658.75,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13658.79,"end":13660.79,"text":"原住民身份法"},{"start":13660.79,"end":13662.79,"text":"第一條 委員郭國文等十六人提案"},{"start":13662.79,"end":13664.79,"text":"修正違違認定原住民身份"},{"start":13664.79,"end":13666.79,"text":"保障原住民權益"},{"start":13666.79,"end":13668.79,"text":"並依據憲法法庭110"},{"start":13669.27,"end":13671.27,"text":"111年憲判自第17號判決主文"},{"start":13671.27,"end":13673.27,"text":"所揭示之意旨"},{"start":13673.27,"end":13675.27,"text":"確認憲法徵修條文"},{"start":13675.27,"end":13677.27,"text":"第十條第十一項及第十二項前段"},{"start":13677.27,"end":13679.27,"text":"所保障是原住民族"},{"start":13679.27,"end":13681.27,"text":"應包劃寄存於台灣之所有"},{"start":13681.27,"end":13683.27,"text":"台灣南島與西民族"},{"start":13683.27,"end":13685.27,"text":"第二條委員鄭天才"},{"start":13685.27,"end":13687.27,"text":"等十八人提案"},{"start":13687.27,"end":13689.27,"text":"委員黃仁等十九人提案"},{"start":13689.27,"end":13691.27,"text":"刪除第二款末段"},{"start":13691.27,"end":13693.27,"text":"並申請戶籍所在地"},{"start":13693.27,"end":13695.27,"text":"鄉鎮市區公所登記為"},{"start":13695.27,"end":13697.27,"text":"平地原住民有案等文字"},{"start":13697.27,"end":13699.27,"text":"第十八條"},{"start":13699.27,"end":13701.27,"text":"委員吳立華等十八人提案"},{"start":13701.27,"end":13703.27,"text":"修正違違本法所稱原住民如下"},{"start":13703.27,"end":13705.27,"text":"依山地行政區原住民依戶口調查部"},{"start":13705.27,"end":13707.27,"text":"原籍在山地行政區域內且本人或直系"},{"start":13707.27,"end":13709.27,"text":"血清專清署"},{"start":13709.27,"end":13711.27,"text":"以登錄為原住民者"},{"start":13711.27,"end":13713.27,"text":"二平地行政區原住民"},{"start":13713.27,"end":13715.27,"text":"依戶口調查部原籍在"},{"start":13715.27,"end":13717.27,"text":"平地行政區域內且本人或直系"},{"start":13717.27,"end":13719.27,"text":"血清專清署以登錄為原住民"},{"start":13719.27,"end":13721.27,"text":"並經戶籍所在地"},{"start":13721.27,"end":13723.27,"text":"鄉鎮市區公所完成"},{"start":13723.27,"end":13725.27,"text":"平地行政區原住民身份的記者"},{"start":13725.27,"end":13727.27,"text":"三同屬南島羽系民族之其他"},{"start":13727.27,"end":13729.27,"text":"台灣原住民族本人或直系血清專清署"},{"start":13729.27,"end":13731.27,"text":"屬於原籍於相關行政區內"},{"start":13731.27,"end":13733.27,"text":"且依戶籍或其他客觀歷史記錄"},{"start":13733.27,"end":13735.27,"text":"可證明其屬南島羽系民族者"},{"start":13735.27,"end":13737.27,"text":"前項第三款所稱"},{"start":13737.27,"end":13739.27,"text":"同屬南島羽系民族之其他"},{"start":13739.27,"end":13741.27,"text":"台灣原住民族"},{"start":13741.27,"end":13743.27,"text":"關於民族權利身份認定及相關政治"},{"start":13743.27,"end":13745.27,"text":"參與資源保障"},{"start":13745.27,"end":13747.27,"text":"另以法律定制"},{"start":13747.27,"end":13749.27,"text":"並得以族群意願及歷史文化完整性"},{"start":13749.27,"end":13751.27,"text":"保障"},{"start":13755.28,"end":13757.28,"text":"民族權利身份認定及相關政治"},{"start":13757.28,"end":13759.28,"text":"主要是民族權利"},{"start":13759.28,"end":13761.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13761.28,"end":13763.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13763.28,"end":13765.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13765.28,"end":13767.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13767.28,"end":13769.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13769.28,"end":13771.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13771.28,"end":13773.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13773.28,"end":13775.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13775.28,"end":13777.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13777.28,"end":13779.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13779.28,"end":13781.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13781.28,"end":13783.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13783.28,"end":13785.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13785.28,"end":13787.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13787.28,"end":13789.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13789.28,"end":13791.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13791.28,"end":13793.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13793.28,"end":13795.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13795.28,"end":13797.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13797.28,"end":13799.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13799.28,"end":13801.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13801.28,"end":13803.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13803.28,"end":13805.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13805.28,"end":13807.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13807.28,"end":13809.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13809.28,"end":13811.28,"text":"民族權利是否有所謂的"},{"start":13793.81,"end":13795.81,"text":"平埔原住民個人權利的一階段"},{"start":13795.81,"end":13797.81,"text":"適用部分未能及時適用者"},{"start":13797.81,"end":13799.81,"text":"因此本法施行後一年內完成"},{"start":13799.81,"end":13801.81,"text":"修法,預期未完成者"},{"start":13801.81,"end":13803.81,"text":"直接適用現行原住民相關法令"},{"start":13803.81,"end":13805.81,"text":"第三條委員武力化等"},{"start":13805.81,"end":13807.81,"text":"18人提案,增訂第一項第四款"},{"start":13807.81,"end":13809.81,"text":"四,據前條同屬難道與"},{"start":13809.81,"end":13811.81,"text":"姓民族之其他台灣原住民族"},{"start":13811.81,"end":13813.81,"text":"身份要件事實者"},{"start":13813.81,"end":13815.81,"text":"其本人及直系血親"},{"start":13815.81,"end":13817.81,"text":"專親屬,取用所屬原住民族之傳統名字"},{"start":13817.81,"end":13819.81,"text":"或取用漢人姓名"},{"start":13819.81,"end":13821.81,"text":"並與原住民族文字並列"},{"start":13821.81,"end":13823.81,"text":"所屬原住民族之姓名"},{"start":13823.81,"end":13825.81,"text":"該姓名得以與原住民族"},{"start":13825.81,"end":13827.81,"text":"姓名文化沿用或創置"},{"start":13827.81,"end":13829.81,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13829.81,"end":13831.81,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13831.81,"end":13833.81,"text":"增訂第一項第四款"},{"start":13833.81,"end":13835.81,"text":"四,據本法第二條平埔原住民"},{"start":13835.81,"end":13837.81,"text":"身份要件事實者,其本人及直系血親"},{"start":13837.81,"end":13839.81,"text":"專親屬"},{"start":13841.07,"end":13843.07,"text":"及其直系血親被親屬"},{"start":13843.07,"end":13845.07,"text":"取用所屬原住民族之傳統名字"},{"start":13845.07,"end":13847.07,"text":"或取用漢人姓名"},{"start":13847.07,"end":13849.07,"text":"並與原住民族文字並列"},{"start":13849.07,"end":13851.07,"text":"其所屬原住民族之姓名"},{"start":13851.07,"end":13853.07,"text":"該姓名得以與原住民族"},{"start":13853.07,"end":13855.07,"text":"姓名文化沿用或創置"},{"start":13855.07,"end":13857.07,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13857.07,"end":13859.07,"text":"四,委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13859.07,"end":13861.07,"text":"本條內容未修正,委員盧憲一等17人提案"},{"start":13861.07,"end":13863.07,"text":"第一項續文修正為"},{"start":13863.07,"end":13865.07,"text":"非原住民,精無子女,前後"},{"start":13865.07,"end":13867.07,"text":"且婚後三年未能自然受孕"},{"start":13867.07,"end":13869.07,"text":"或經醫療機構診斷為"},{"start":13869.07,"end":13871.07,"text":"補孕之原住民雙親共同收養"},{"start":13871.07,"end":13873.07,"text":"且符合下列各款規定者"},{"start":13873.07,"end":13875.07,"text":"取得原住民身份"},{"start":13875.07,"end":13877.07,"text":"第二項刪除需年滿40歲之文字"},{"start":13877.07,"end":13879.07,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13879.07,"end":13881.07,"text":"第五條委員伍立華等18人提案"},{"start":13881.07,"end":13883.07,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13883.07,"end":13885.07,"text":"刪除第一項第四款及第三項"},{"start":13885.07,"end":13887.07,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13887.07,"end":13889.07,"text":"委員陳瑩等16人提案增訂第四項"},{"start":13889.07,"end":13891.07,"text":"依第一項第四款規定上失原住民身份者"},{"start":13891.07,"end":13893.07,"text":"至本法圈年全月圈日"},{"start":13893.07,"end":13895.07,"text":"修正施行後原住民身份不上失"},{"start":13895.07,"end":13897.07,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13897.07,"end":13899.07,"text":"第六條委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13899.07,"end":13901.07,"text":"第一項刪除或"},{"start":13901.07,"end":13903.07,"text":"從居原住民身份之父或母之姓等文字"},{"start":13903.07,"end":13905.07,"text":"另刪除第三項其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13905.07,"end":13907.07,"text":"第七條委員伍立華等18人提案"},{"start":13907.07,"end":13909.07,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13909.07,"end":13911.07,"text":"刪除第七條委員曾天才等20人提案"},{"start":13911.07,"end":13913.07,"text":"委員黃仁等18人提案"},{"start":13913.07,"end":13915.07,"text":"將第七條末段子女修正為"},{"start":13915.07,"end":13917.07,"text":"慈禧血親悲青鼠其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13917.07,"end":13919.07,"text":"委員伍立華等18人提案增訂第二項"},{"start":13919.07,"end":13921.07,"text":"得以第三條第一項規定"},{"start":13921.07,"end":13923.07,"text":"申請取用或以原住民族文字"},{"start":13923.07,"end":13925.07,"text":"並列為自然的申請"},{"start":13925.07,"end":13927.07,"text":"或以原住民族文字並列"},{"start":13927.07,"end":13929.07,"text":"原住民族傳統名字"},{"start":13929.07,"end":13933.07,"text":"或從居原住民身份之父或母之姓"},{"start":13933.07,"end":13935.07,"text":"而取得原住民身份"},{"start":13935.07,"end":13937.07,"text":"於本法中華民國全年全月全日"},{"start":13937.07,"end":13939.07,"text":"修正施行前死亡者"},{"start":13939.07,"end":13941.07,"text":"其子女准用第三條及前條規定"},{"start":13941.07,"end":13943.07,"text":"取用原住民族傳統名字"},{"start":13943.07,"end":13945.07,"text":"取得原住民身份及餘同現行條文"},{"start":13945.07,"end":13947.07,"text":"第八條委員伍立華等18人提案"},{"start":13947.07,"end":13949.07,"text":"第一項修正為"},{"start":13949.07,"end":13951.07,"text":"3D行政區原住民與"},{"start":13950.41,"end":13952.41,"text":"平地行政區原住民結婚"},{"start":13952.41,"end":13954.41,"text":"得以約定變更為相同之"},{"start":13954.41,"end":13956.41,"text":"3D行政區原住民或平地行政區原住民身份"},{"start":13956.41,"end":13958.41,"text":"其子女之身份重之"},{"start":13958.41,"end":13960.41,"text":"第二項末段修正為"},{"start":13960.41,"end":13962.41,"text":"取得3D行政區原住民或平地行政區原住民身份"},{"start":13962.41,"end":13964.41,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13964.41,"end":13966.41,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13966.41,"end":13968.41,"text":"其餘同現行條文"},{"start":13968.41,"end":13970.41,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案"},{"start":13970.41,"end":13972.41,"text":"應刪除現行條文第7條"},{"start":13972.41,"end":13974.41,"text":"現行條文第8條至第12條"},{"start":13974.41,"end":13976.41,"text":"條次變更為第7條至第11條"},{"start":13976.41,"end":13978.41,"text":"條次變更為第7條至第11條"},{"start":13978.41,"end":13980.41,"text":"第7條內容修正為"},{"start":13980.41,"end":13982.41,"text":"3D原住民平地原住民與平埔原住民"},{"start":13982.41,"end":13984.41,"text":"跨身份結婚"},{"start":13984.41,"end":13986.41,"text":"得以約定變更為相同之原住民身份"},{"start":13986.41,"end":13988.41,"text":"其子女之身份重之"},{"start":13988.41,"end":13990.41,"text":"位議前項約定變更為相同原住民身份"},{"start":13990.41,"end":13992.41,"text":"者其子女與未成年時的"},{"start":13992.41,"end":13994.41,"text":"有法定代理人協議"},{"start":13994.41,"end":13996.41,"text":"選定其原住民身份成年後"},{"start":13996.41,"end":13998.41,"text":"得以其個人意願選擇取得"},{"start":13998.41,"end":14000.41,"text":"3D原住民平地原住民或平埔原住民身份"},{"start":14004.05,"end":14006.05,"text":"第11條委員林怡錦等22人提案"},{"start":14006.05,"end":14008.05,"text":"第一項末段修正為"},{"start":14008.05,"end":14010.05,"text":"或由當事人相互證事務所申請查明"},{"start":14010.05,"end":14012.05,"text":"並為撤銷或更正的登記"},{"start":14012.05,"end":14014.05,"text":"刪除戶籍所在地等文字"},{"start":14014.05,"end":14016.05,"text":"增訂第二項 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我們現在繼續開會"},{"start":14593.78,"end":14597.78,"text":"有關原住民身份法的草案修正"},{"start":14597.78,"end":14598.78,"text":"大家有什麼意見"},{"start":14600.45,"end":14602.45,"text":"來 請那個紅綠委員"},{"start":14613.08,"end":14614.08,"text":"來"},{"start":14614.08,"end":14615.08,"text":"各位委員"},{"start":14615.08,"end":14618.08,"text":"我覺得原住民族身份法這個"},{"start":14618.08,"end":14621.08,"text":"有一段時間當然也不能拖"},{"start":14621.08,"end":14623.08,"text":"不過我們今天這個法案裡面"},{"start":14623.08,"end":14626.08,"text":"有關平埔族的部分"},{"start":14626.08,"end":14629.08,"text":"其實已經另有法令了"},{"start":14629.08,"end":14632.08,"text":"我們今天是不是我們先處理"},{"start":14632.08,"end":14635.08,"text":"把有關平埔族的部分"},{"start":14635.08,"end":14637.08,"text":"我們就不予處理"},{"start":14637.08,"end":14638.08,"text":"把它確定"},{"start":14638.08,"end":14640.08,"text":"不予處理"},{"start":14640.08,"end":14641.08,"text":"那另外"},{"start":14641.08,"end":14643.08,"text":"因為把它不予處理之後"},{"start":14643.08,"end":14645.08,"text":"可能有些法條"},{"start":14645.08,"end":14647.08,"text":"還有條次什麼都要變更"},{"start":14647.08,"end":14648.08,"text":"都要那個"},{"start":14648.08,"end":14650.08,"text":"我們希望"},{"start":14652.08,"end":14655.08,"text":"原民會能夠在開議的時候"},{"start":14655.08,"end":14657.08,"text":"下會期開議的時候"},{"start":14657.08,"end":14660.08,"text":"把你們所有的這個重新整理好"},{"start":14660.08,"end":14662.08,"text":"然後給我們"},{"start":14662.08,"end":14663.08,"text":"重新送來給我們"},{"start":14663.08,"end":14666.08,"text":"然後我們下會期一開始"},{"start":14666.08,"end":14668.08,"text":"我們就可以馬上處理"},{"start":14669.13,"end":14671.13,"text":"這樣子我徵求大家的意見"},{"start":14671.13,"end":14673.13,"text":"這樣子我們內政委員會可以馬上處理"},{"start":14673.13,"end":14674.13,"text":"不知道好不好"},{"start":14674.85,"end":14675.85,"text":"確認"},{"start":14676.29,"end":14677.29,"text":"什麼先去的"},{"start":14678.99,"end":14680.99,"text":"對對對"},{"start":14680.99,"end":14682.99,"text":"也不用確認"},{"start":14682.99,"end":14684.99,"text":"就是我如果這個大家都同意的話"},{"start":14684.99,"end":14686.99,"text":"我們就做這個決議了"},{"start":14686.99,"end":14688.99,"text":"就另期再審了"},{"start":14688.99,"end":14691.99,"text":"就是下會期前他們一定要把那個"},{"start":14691.99,"end":14693.99,"text":"修正好的來給我們"},{"start":14693.99,"end":14695.99,"text":"然後我們下會期就馬上就審了"},{"start":14695.99,"end":14697.99,"text":"這樣才能節省時間"},{"start":14697.99,"end":14699.99,"text":"今天也不會拖太久"},{"start":14699.99,"end":14701.99,"text":"我覺得如果大家同意的話"},{"start":14701.99,"end":14703.99,"text":"主席你就這樣宣布的話"},{"start":14703.99,"end":14705.99,"text":"我們就這樣處理了"},{"start":14705.99,"end":14707.99,"text":"我要確認有沒有委員想要"},{"start":14707.99,"end":14710.99,"text":"做比較廣泛的發言"},{"start":14711.71,"end":14713.71,"text":"還是就照剛剛紅路委員講的"},{"start":14713.71,"end":14715.71,"text":"我們另擇期"},{"start":14715.71,"end":14717.71,"text":"處理"},{"start":14717.24,"end":14719.24,"text":"我補充了"},{"start":14719.24,"end":14721.24,"text":"補充這個紅路委員"},{"start":14721.24,"end":14723.24,"text":"謝謝紅路委員"},{"start":14723.27,"end":14725.27,"text":"我補充就是說這個"},{"start":14726.03,"end":14728.03,"text":"哪些條文是屬於"},{"start":14729.31,"end":14731.31,"text":"跟平埔有關的"},{"start":14731.31,"end":14733.31,"text":"那因為已經有另外一個法律了"},{"start":14733.31,"end":14735.31,"text":"就不予處理"},{"start":14735.31,"end":14737.31,"text":"就跟紅路剛剛講的"},{"start":14737.29,"end":14739.29,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":14738.52,"end":14740.52,"text":"就是說"},{"start":14739.65,"end":14741.65,"text":"其他的"},{"start":14740.92,"end":14742.92,"text":"跟平埔無關的"},{"start":14742.92,"end":14744.92,"text":"但是是要修"},{"start":14744.65,"end":14746.65,"text":"現在的原住民生活法的部分"},{"start":14748.16,"end":14750.16,"text":"那個需要怎麼樣去做"},{"start":14750.16,"end":14752.16,"text":"修正的文字"},{"start":14752.16,"end":14754.16,"text":"就按照剛才紅路講的"},{"start":14754.16,"end":14756.16,"text":"9月1號以前"},{"start":14756.16,"end":14758.16,"text":"把修正的文字"},{"start":14758.16,"end":14760.16,"text":"先檢視好"},{"start":14760.16,"end":14762.16,"text":"下次開會的時候"},{"start":14762.16,"end":14764.16,"text":"這樣會比較順利"},{"start":14765.69,"end":14767.69,"text":"這個意思嗎"},{"start":14768.69,"end":14770.69,"text":"好,那還有委員要發言嗎"},{"start":14770.84,"end":14772.84,"text":"沒有"},{"start":14772.57,"end":14776.57,"text":"沒有,好,那我們的這個協商共識"},{"start":14776.57,"end":14780.57,"text":"就是原住民生命法的部分"},{"start":14780.57,"end":14782.57,"text":"那就請原民會"},{"start":14782.57,"end":14784.57,"text":"9月之前把你們的方案"},{"start":14784.57,"end":14786.57,"text":"提出來跟委員討論"},{"start":14786.57,"end":14788.57,"text":"我們就下個會期儘快"},{"start":14788.57,"end":14790.57,"text":"繼續審查"},{"start":14790.57,"end":14792.57,"text":"那第二個部分"},{"start":14792.57,"end":14794.57,"text":"原住民族"},{"start":14794.44,"end":14796.44,"text":"基本法的部分"},{"start":14796.44,"end":14798.44,"text":"是不是也是"},{"start":14798.85,"end":14800.85,"text":"再跟委員多多討論"},{"start":14800.85,"end":14802.85,"text":"然後軍令定期"},{"start":14802.85,"end":14804.85,"text":"繼續審查這樣"},{"start":14804.85,"end":14806.85,"text":"好,那我就回去宣讀"},{"start":14806.85,"end":14808.85,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":14812.11,"end":14814.11,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":14820.97,"end":14822.97,"text":"好啦"},{"start":14834.91,"end":14836.91,"text":"好,做一下決議"},{"start":14836.91,"end":14838.91,"text":"討論事項所列議案"},{"start":14838.91,"end":14840.91,"text":"軍令定期繼續審查"},{"start":14840.91,"end":14842.91,"text":"本次會議到此結束,現在上會"},{"start":14843.8,"end":14845.8,"text":"謝謝"},{"start"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