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民主黨陳總理 主席黨請坐"},{"start":1629.24,"end":1631.24,"text":"謝謝 請坐請坐"},{"start":1774.88,"end":1777.88,"text":"謝謝 蔡總召 謝謝"},{"start":1777.88,"end":1780.88,"text":"台灣民眾黨團的我們的工作夥伴"},{"start":1780.88,"end":1782.88,"text":"催促一下好嗎 時間已到"},{"start":2078.58,"end":2080.58,"text":"謝謝 請坐"},{"start":2079.25,"end":2081.25,"text":"陳總召"},{"start":2090.83,"end":2092.83,"text":"好 謝謝 我們秋會入委員到了嗎"},{"start":2094.3,"end":2097.3,"text":"我們就 好 謝謝"},{"start":2097.3,"end":2099.3,"text":"好 謝謝各位黨團幹部"},{"start":2099.3,"end":2101.3,"text":"謝謝各位行政官員"},{"start":2102.27,"end":2105.27,"text":"我們今天 練習的行政院長 秘書長"},{"start":2105.27,"end":2107.27,"text":"主席總處的陳主席長"},{"start":2108.63,"end":2112.63,"text":"好 謝謝 我們進入一般行政行政院第一幕"},{"start":2112.63,"end":2116.63,"text":"25案無法達成共識 我們"},{"start":2116.63,"end":2120.63,"text":"我們就保留30案"},{"start":2120.63,"end":2127.63,"text":"改30案 陳召之委員凍結500萬"},{"start":2127.63,"end":2129.63,"text":"張秘書長請表達意見好嗎 謝謝"},{"start":2132.41,"end":2135.41,"text":"謝謝院長 一大早就召集朝野協商"},{"start":2135.41,"end":2138.41,"text":"不過30案的部分我想昨天在最後我也表達過的"},{"start":2138.41,"end":2141.41,"text":"那就看這個委員們決定怎麼處理 謝謝"},{"start":2141.6,"end":2144.6,"text":"好 我們保留 我們進入31案"},{"start":2144.6,"end":2146.6,"text":"翁小林完並通案辦理"},{"start":2146.6,"end":2150.6,"text":"32案陳召之委員並通案辦理"},{"start":2150.6,"end":2152.6,"text":"33案陳召之委員並通案辦理"},{"start":2152.6,"end":2155.6,"text":"34案陳慶龍委員並通案辦理"},{"start":2155.6,"end":2159.6,"text":"35案並通案辦理 林沛祥委員所提"},{"start":2159.6,"end":2162.6,"text":"30案廖先祥委員並通案辦理"},{"start":2162.6,"end":2165.6,"text":"我們進入第二幕 施政及法治業務"},{"start":2165.6,"end":2170.6,"text":"第37案 翁小林完全數簡列"},{"start":2170.6,"end":2172.6,"text":"委員長表達意見好嗎"},{"start":2173.48,"end":2176.48,"text":"好 謝謝院長 謝謝各位委員"},{"start":2176.48,"end":2180.48,"text":"一大早進行第二天的朝野協商"},{"start":2181.34,"end":2187.34,"text":"院長請容許我在開始之前先感謝幾位委員"},{"start":2187.34,"end":2191.34,"text":"包括了廖先祥委員 翁小林委員"},{"start":2191.34,"end":2196.34,"text":"鄭天才委員 黃仁委員 陳永康委員"},{"start":2196.34,"end":2201.34,"text":"民進黨的委員 包括張宏祿委員 王美慧委員"},{"start":2201.34,"end":2206.34,"text":"民眾黨團 還有包括許中信委員"},{"start":2216.24,"end":2221.24,"text":"黃玉祥委員 還有許宇峥委員跟賴思寶委員"},{"start":2221.24,"end":2223.24,"text":"就有一些案子事前已經溝通過"},{"start":2223.24,"end":2227.24,"text":"那就已經改成主決議 這樣可以加速進行的時間"},{"start":2227.24,"end":2231.24,"text":"那第二個就是 我知道院長接下來還有1000多案要協商"},{"start":2231.24,"end":2235.24,"text":"所以接下來的說明 容我比較簡短的說明"},{"start":2235.24,"end":2239.24,"text":"就第二幕施政及法治業務的部分"},{"start":2239.24,"end":2241.24,"text":"我做幾個摘要說明"},{"start":2241.24,"end":2245.24,"text":"今年度行政院編列施政及法治業務1437萬"},{"start":2245.24,"end":2247.24,"text":"那這個計畫"},{"start":2248.47,"end":2250.47,"text":"去年遭到全數的刪除"},{"start":2250.47,"end":2252.47,"text":"那也要跟院長報告"},{"start":2252.47,"end":2254.47,"text":"今年行政院院本部的預算"},{"start":2254.47,"end":2256.47,"text":"除了施政法治業務之外"},{"start":2256.47,"end":2258.47,"text":"還有新聞傳播業務"},{"start":2258.47,"end":2261.47,"text":"以及人權處的預算全數遭到刪除"},{"start":2261.47,"end":2263.47,"text":"目前的提案是這個樣子"},{"start":2263.47,"end":2265.47,"text":"那就施政法治業務的部分"},{"start":2265.47,"end":2267.47,"text":"它的工作內容涵蓋幾項"},{"start":2267.47,"end":2270.47,"text":"第一個 施政及法治業務"},{"start":2270.47,"end":2272.47,"text":"那第二個是施政報告編印"},{"start":2272.47,"end":2276.47,"text":"也就是院長到立法院備詢相關的報告的編印"},{"start":2276.47,"end":2279.47,"text":"那第三個是政策及法案的嚴審"},{"start":2279.47,"end":2282.47,"text":"那行政院有許多的處"},{"start":2282.47,"end":2284.47,"text":"那處大概就對應各個部會"},{"start":2284.47,"end":2287.47,"text":"那做相關的計畫跟法案的研擬"},{"start":2287.47,"end":2292.47,"text":"比方說這個行政院有這個經濟處"},{"start":2292.47,"end":2297.47,"text":"那它可能就是處理相對應立法院經濟委員會的相關部會等等之類的"},{"start":2297.47,"end":2298.47,"text":"那第四個"},{"start":2299.98,"end":2301.98,"text":"工作是派員出國的計畫"},{"start":2301.98,"end":2303.98,"text":"那第五個是公共事務的推展"},{"start":2303.98,"end":2306.98,"text":"那第六個是法規審查及訴願"},{"start":2306.98,"end":2308.98,"text":"那我也必須補充說明"},{"start":2308.98,"end":2309.98,"text":"公共事務的推展"},{"start":2309.98,"end":2311.98,"text":"為什麼會在施政法治業務之下"},{"start":2311.98,"end":2313.98,"text":"其實它是有緣由的"},{"start":2313.98,"end":2316.98,"text":"2012年行政院新聞局裁測之後"},{"start":2316.98,"end":2320.98,"text":"那2013年院本部的預算開始編列新聞傳播業務"},{"start":2320.98,"end":2322.98,"text":"那到2014年之後"},{"start":2322.98,"end":2327.98,"text":"把2013年的部分業務挪編到這個施政法治的工作項下"},{"start":2327.98,"end":2328.98,"text":"這包括哪些呢"},{"start":2328.98,"end":2333.98,"text":"包括例如院長的陳情信箱等等之類的"},{"start":2333.98,"end":2337.98,"text":"那第六個這個法規審查及訴願的部分"},{"start":2337.98,"end":2341.98,"text":"重點是在於憲法第16條明文保障"},{"start":2341.98,"end":2346.98,"text":"也明文記載人們有請願訴願及訴訟之權"},{"start":2346.98,"end":2348.98,"text":"這個是憲法保障的權利"},{"start":2348.98,"end":2352.98,"text":"而這筆預算是行政院訴願委員會"},{"start":2352.98,"end":2354.98,"text":"它必須接受人民訴願的案件"},{"start":2354.98,"end":2356.98,"text":"那針對訴願的案件"},{"start":2356.98,"end":2362.98,"text":"很多其實也是針對政府這個行政處分的不滿"},{"start":2362.98,"end":2365.98,"text":"或者是它需要在這個訴願而來的"},{"start":2365.98,"end":2370.98,"text":"那平均一年訴願的案件大概都會超過2500件"},{"start":2370.98,"end":2372.98,"text":"那2500件的背後"},{"start":2373.8,"end":2375.8,"text":"並不是2500個人喔"},{"start":2375.8,"end":2376.8,"text":"常常有一個訴願案"},{"start":2376.8,"end":2378.8,"text":"它背後的訴願人就是上百人"},{"start":2378.8,"end":2381.8,"text":"所以其實這個工作是非常沉重的"},{"start":2383.91,"end":2384.91,"text":"這裡面的工作呢"},{"start":2384.91,"end":2387.91,"text":"也都還包括了像院長如果要下鄉"},{"start":2387.91,"end":2389.91,"text":"這個如果要搭乘行政專機"},{"start":2389.91,"end":2391.91,"text":"在機場的保險費用"},{"start":2391.91,"end":2394.91,"text":"這個隨同出勤人員的保險"},{"start":2394.91,"end":2399.91,"text":"那比方說他們在這個公務旅途當中的物產費等等喔"},{"start":2399.91,"end":2403.91,"text":"所以基本上這個施政法是也有1437萬"},{"start":2403.91,"end":2406.91,"text":"是行政院這個辦理會議"},{"start":2406.91,"end":2408.91,"text":"這個審議計畫"},{"start":2408.91,"end":2412.91,"text":"處理人民這個訴願憲法所保障的權利"},{"start":2412.91,"end":2413.91,"text":"他的基本喔"},{"start":2413.91,"end":2419.91,"text":"所以希望這個委員能夠支持這個施政法制的業務"},{"start":2419.91,"end":2422.91,"text":"讓這個行政院的各項工作能夠順利推展喔"},{"start":2422.91,"end":2423.91,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":2423.91,"end":2424.91,"text":"好謝謝張院長說明"},{"start":2424.91,"end":2427.91,"text":"我們第42案改組決議"},{"start":2427.91,"end":2429.91,"text":"43案改組決議"},{"start":2429.91,"end":2431.91,"text":"48案改組決議"},{"start":2431.91,"end":2433.91,"text":"50案改組決議"},{"start":2433.91,"end":2435.91,"text":"51項改組決議"},{"start":2435.91,"end":2437.91,"text":"其餘全數保留"},{"start":2437.91,"end":2438.91,"text":"我們進入第三幕"},{"start":2438.91,"end":2441.91,"text":"施政推展聯繫"},{"start":2441.91,"end":2444.91,"text":"現在簡略"},{"start":2446.42,"end":2449.42,"text":"553萬5000元"},{"start":2449.42,"end":2452.42,"text":"請問我已經全部保留了"},{"start":2452.42,"end":2453.42,"text":"不再發言"},{"start":2453.42,"end":2455.42,"text":"我們請張院長表達意見"},{"start":2457.64,"end":2458.64,"text":"好謝謝院長"},{"start":2458.64,"end":2460.64,"text":"我們二輪再說好嗎"},{"start":2460.64,"end":2461.64,"text":"二輪"},{"start":2461.64,"end":2463.64,"text":"今天這樣情況的話變成說錯"},{"start":2463.64,"end":2464.64,"text":"我們有一千多個案子"},{"start":2464.64,"end":2465.64,"text":"是如果這樣的話"},{"start":2465.64,"end":2468.64,"text":"那是不是行政院秘書長也不用說明了"},{"start":2468.64,"end":2472.64,"text":"我保留二輪的時候可以再進一步精細化"},{"start":2472.64,"end":2473.64,"text":"他的意思是如果只有他單方意見"},{"start":2473.64,"end":2475.64,"text":"他們會下去剪媒體"},{"start":2475.64,"end":2476.64,"text":"只有單方意見"},{"start":2476.64,"end":2477.64,"text":"不是這個意思"},{"start":2477.64,"end":2481.64,"text":"是如果等一下如果還有討論的空間"},{"start":2481.64,"end":2482.64,"text":"當然委員可以發言"},{"start":2482.64,"end":2485.64,"text":"而且今天是黨團幹部會議"},{"start":2485.64,"end":2487.64,"text":"李博義委我要容許我提醒大家"},{"start":2487.64,"end":2489.64,"text":"我們今天是以黨團幹部會議為主"},{"start":2489.64,"end":2490.64,"text":"除了提案委員"},{"start":2490.64,"end":2493.64,"text":"既然這個有意見我知道"},{"start":2493.64,"end":2494.64,"text":"召委當然可以說明"},{"start":2494.64,"end":2496.64,"text":"但是以黨團幹部"},{"start":2496.64,"end":2498.64,"text":"昨天太多其他非黨團幹部發言"},{"start":2498.64,"end":2499.64,"text":"造成"},{"start":2500.8,"end":2502.8,"text":"整個氣氛大家都知道"},{"start":2502.8,"end":2504.8,"text":"所以我今天以黨團幹部發言為主"},{"start":2504.8,"end":2506.8,"text":"但你提案的委員"},{"start":2506.8,"end":2508.8,"text":"如果還有刪減的可能"},{"start":2508.8,"end":2509.8,"text":"當然可以發言"},{"start":2509.8,"end":2510.8,"text":"你已經堅持"},{"start":2510.8,"end":2511.8,"text":"那我就保留"},{"start":2511.8,"end":2512.8,"text":"我們可以往下"},{"start":2512.8,"end":2513.8,"text":"我們有一千三百多個案子"},{"start":2513.8,"end":2514.8,"text":"二位"},{"start":2515.72,"end":2516.72,"text":"謝謝院長的說明"},{"start":2516.72,"end":2518.72,"text":"可是我也知道說是"},{"start":2518.72,"end":2521.72,"text":"這樣的話變成說只有張秘書長的說明"},{"start":2521.72,"end":2522.72,"text":"可是都沒有我的說明"},{"start":2522.72,"end":2524.72,"text":"你一說明完其他委員"},{"start":2524.72,"end":2525.72,"text":"接著發言"},{"start":2525.72,"end":2526.72,"text":"發言完"},{"start":2526.72,"end":2527.72,"text":"如果我們現在提保證"},{"start":2527.72,"end":2528.72,"text":"剛剛有沒有意見"},{"start":2528.72,"end":2529.72,"text":"因為我們還有二輪"},{"start":2531.31,"end":2532.31,"text":"我們二輪的時候"},{"start":2532.31,"end":2534.31,"text":"可以再根據我們去化掉很多案子"},{"start":2534.31,"end":2535.31,"text":"大家再來保留意見好嗎"},{"start":2535.31,"end":2537.31,"text":"院長我能夠"},{"start":2537.31,"end":2538.31,"text":"來"},{"start":2538.31,"end":2540.31,"text":"來院長我在這邊"},{"start":2540.31,"end":2543.31,"text":"我們還是在做預算審查"},{"start":2543.31,"end":2546.31,"text":"那當然院長就有請這個"},{"start":2546.31,"end":2548.31,"text":"部會首長做一個說明"},{"start":2548.31,"end":2551.31,"text":"包括秘書長也做說明"},{"start":2551.31,"end":2554.31,"text":"那至少我們有提案委員"},{"start":2554.31,"end":2556.31,"text":"有黨團在這邊"},{"start":2556.31,"end":2558.31,"text":"那必要是不是我們"},{"start":2558.31,"end":2561.31,"text":"可以精簡的一個表達"},{"start":2561.31,"end":2563.31,"text":"或精簡的一個發言"},{"start":2563.31,"end":2566.31,"text":"能夠對於算彼此做一個"},{"start":2566.31,"end":2567.31,"text":"做一個討論"},{"start":2567.31,"end":2569.31,"text":"我想這也是必要的啦"},{"start":2569.31,"end":2570.31,"text":"那如果"},{"start":2570.31,"end":2573.31,"text":"只有單方面的都是"},{"start":2573.31,"end":2574.31,"text":"行政部門的說明"},{"start":2574.31,"end":2576.31,"text":"那我們黨團都"},{"start":2576.31,"end":2578.31,"text":"大家都不講話"},{"start":2578.31,"end":2580.31,"text":"那就等於"},{"start":2580.31,"end":2582.31,"text":"等於單方面的一個"},{"start":2582.31,"end":2583.31,"text":"一個"},{"start":2583.31,"end":2584.31,"text":"一個發表"},{"start":2584.31,"end":2586.31,"text":"陳總說你現在不是正在講話嗎"},{"start":2586.31,"end":2587.31,"text":"對啊"},{"start":2587.31,"end":2588.31,"text":"所以我提出建議"},{"start":2588.31,"end":2589.31,"text":"你黨團該不"},{"start":2589.31,"end":2590.31,"text":"舉手隨時都可以講話"},{"start":2591.63,"end":2592.63,"text":"再講座"},{"start":2592.77,"end":2594.77,"text":"佩祥書記長你們隨時可以發言"},{"start":2595.74,"end":2596.74,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2596.74,"end":2597.74,"text":"還是保留"},{"start":2597.74,"end":2598.74,"text":"大家還有什麼意見"},{"start":2600.27,"end":2602.27,"text":"我們現在還有1300多個案子"},{"start":2603.47,"end":2605.47,"text":"我一定照你的"},{"start":2605.47,"end":2606.47,"text":"還有什麼意見"},{"start":2607.25,"end":2609.25,"text":"這會到底還要不要開了"},{"start":2610.21,"end":2612.21,"text":"我已經才是保留了"},{"start":2612.21,"end":2613.21,"text":"還有二輪"},{"start":2613.21,"end":2615.21,"text":"二輪我們去化一大部分之後"},{"start":2615.21,"end":2616.21,"text":"回過來大家有意見"},{"start":2616.21,"end":2618.21,"text":"可以繼續表達意見"},{"start":2618.21,"end":2620.21,"text":"我們先加快速度"},{"start":2620.21,"end":2622.21,"text":"把第一輪達成共識的"},{"start":2622.21,"end":2623.21,"text":"我們就把它去化掉了"},{"start":2623.21,"end":2625.21,"text":"到第二輪可能保留500"},{"start":2625.21,"end":2626.21,"text":"可能保留800"},{"start":2626.21,"end":2628.21,"text":"大家可以再進一步來發言"},{"start":2628.21,"end":2630.21,"text":"這個有什麼問題呢"},{"start":2629.97,"end":2631.97,"text":"我們現在把所有的時間全部省下來"},{"start":2631.97,"end":2633.97,"text":"包括明天下午要繼續協商"},{"start":2633.97,"end":2635.97,"text":"包括禮拜二要繼續協商"},{"start":2635.97,"end":2636.97,"text":"禮拜三要繼續協商"},{"start":2636.97,"end":2637.97,"text":"禮拜四要繼續協商"},{"start":2637.97,"end":2640.97,"text":"我們一定要第一輪大家有個共識"},{"start":2640.97,"end":2642.97,"text":"把1300多個案子去化成多少"},{"start":2642.97,"end":2644.97,"text":"如果去化成800、900"},{"start":2644.97,"end":2646.97,"text":"我們第二輪再來發言"},{"start":2646.97,"end":2649.97,"text":"我們預計8月7號要全部通過"},{"start":2652.46,"end":2654.46,"text":"各位黨團幹部有沒有意見"},{"start":2654.79,"end":2656.79,"text":"如果沒有意見我們就把它處理好嗎"},{"start":2656.79,"end":2659.79,"text":"你黨團幹部你隨時可以表達意見"},{"start":2659.79,"end":2661.79,"text":"我們是朝野黨團協商嘛"},{"start":2661.79,"end":2662.79,"text":"那你委員有意見"},{"start":2662.79,"end":2663.79,"text":"我已經把它保留了嘛"},{"start":2667.01,"end":2669.01,"text":"我們進入第三幕施政"},{"start":2669.01,"end":2670.01,"text":"推展聯繫"},{"start":2670.01,"end":2673.01,"text":"簡列553萬5000元"},{"start":2673.01,"end":2675.01,"text":"廖先祥委員"},{"start":2675.01,"end":2677.01,"text":"翁曉琳委員"},{"start":2677.47,"end":2679.47,"text":"新任院長張秘書長請表達意見"},{"start":2679.47,"end":2681.47,"text":"好謝謝院長"},{"start":2681.47,"end":2683.47,"text":"這個容許我爭取一下"},{"start":2683.47,"end":2685.47,"text":"關於第53案"},{"start":2685.47,"end":2687.47,"text":"這個施政推廣聯繫"},{"start":2687.47,"end":2689.47,"text":"去年編列615萬"},{"start":2689.47,"end":2691.47,"text":"被簡列300萬"},{"start":2691.47,"end":2693.47,"text":"那今年增編300萬"},{"start":2693.47,"end":2695.47,"text":"其實是回編300萬"},{"start":2695.47,"end":2697.47,"text":"那截至目前為止"},{"start":2697.47,"end":2699.47,"text":"已經執行了148萬"},{"start":2699.47,"end":2704.47,"text":"所以如果簡列這個553萬的話"},{"start":2704.47,"end":2706.47,"text":"等於是簡列90%"},{"start":2707.42,"end":2709.42,"text":"那只剩下61.5萬"},{"start":2709.42,"end":2711.42,"text":"那已經花了148萬"},{"start":2711.42,"end":2714.42,"text":"那如果現在只剩下61.5萬"},{"start":2714.42,"end":2716.42,"text":"那一樣會遇到昨天"},{"start":2716.42,"end":2718.42,"text":"省院本部出租費用的問題"},{"start":2718.42,"end":2720.42,"text":"那已經付的應該要如何處理"},{"start":2720.42,"end":2723.42,"text":"所以希望能夠爭取這個預算"},{"start":2723.42,"end":2726.42,"text":"讓這個相關的業務能夠順利的推動"},{"start":2726.42,"end":2727.42,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":2727.42,"end":2729.42,"text":"好 翁曉琳委員現在請你發言"},{"start":2729.42,"end":2730.42,"text":"你是提案委員"},{"start":2731.59,"end":2732.59,"text":"保留90%"},{"start":2734.15,"end":2735.15,"text":"啊"},{"start":2737.75,"end":2739.75,"text":"進入哪個項目你知道嗎"},{"start":2739.75,"end":2740.75,"text":"53案"},{"start":2741.58,"end":2743.58,"text":"對 你是提案的委員"},{"start":2750.98,"end":2751.98,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2755.62,"end":2757.62,"text":"好 我想針對這個"},{"start":2757.62,"end":2758.62,"text":"經藥費的部分"},{"start":2758.62,"end":2759.62,"text":"主要是"},{"start":2759.62,"end":2761.62,"text":"犒賞獎助慰問等等"},{"start":2761.62,"end":2763.62,"text":"這些也是屬於非必要項目"},{"start":2763.62,"end":2765.62,"text":"那麼這個不僅是"},{"start":2765.62,"end":2767.62,"text":"現在政府這台高足"},{"start":2767.62,"end":2769.62,"text":"而且包含就是整個行政院"},{"start":2769.62,"end":2770.62,"text":"在很多的事項上面"},{"start":2770.62,"end":2772.62,"text":"很多業務推動上面"},{"start":2772.62,"end":2773.62,"text":"都不令人滿"},{"start":2773.62,"end":2776.62,"text":"都未盡職守"},{"start":2776.62,"end":2779.62,"text":"而且施政讓大家高度的"},{"start":2779.62,"end":2781.62,"text":"這個質疑"},{"start":2781.62,"end":2782.62,"text":"他的施政的能力"},{"start":2782.62,"end":2784.62,"text":"那麼該依法編列預算"},{"start":2784.62,"end":2786.62,"text":"然後該供附屬的法律"},{"start":2786.62,"end":2787.62,"text":"以及該推動的法案"},{"start":2787.62,"end":2789.62,"text":"到現在為止行政院"},{"start":2789.62,"end":2790.62,"text":"壓了100多個案子"},{"start":2790.62,"end":2793.62,"text":"都沒有送到這個立法院"},{"start":2793.62,"end":2795.62,"text":"所以我已經貼了非常多的機關"},{"start":2795.62,"end":2796.62,"text":"包含司法院"},{"start":2796.62,"end":2798.62,"text":"以及其他的這個院會在內"},{"start":2798.62,"end":2800.62,"text":"都對行政院的業務"},{"start":2800.62,"end":2802.62,"text":"感到非常的不滿"},{"start":2802.62,"end":2803.62,"text":"所以他在這邊就是"},{"start":2803.62,"end":2805.62,"text":"提出刪減9成以上"},{"start":2806.68,"end":2807.68,"text":"所以你不同意"},{"start":2807.68,"end":2808.68,"text":"那我們就保留我們"},{"start":2808.68,"end":2811.68,"text":"54案徐興怡凍結10%"},{"start":2813.82,"end":2814.82,"text":"好 張民昌請"},{"start":2815.42,"end":2817.42,"text":"好 謝謝 關於53案"},{"start":2817.42,"end":2819.42,"text":"這個所謂的院長"},{"start":2819.42,"end":2821.42,"text":"行政院所編的機要費"},{"start":2821.42,"end":2822.42,"text":"這一筆錢花在哪裡呢"},{"start":2822.42,"end":2823.42,"text":"以去年為例"},{"start":2823.42,"end":2825.42,"text":"其實歷任院長我想都差不多"},{"start":2825.42,"end":2827.42,"text":"去年是為免犒賞保六總隊"},{"start":2827.42,"end":2829.42,"text":"這個警官 警員"},{"start":2829.42,"end":2832.42,"text":"然後松山基地指揮部"},{"start":2832.42,"end":2833.42,"text":"辛苦的地勤"},{"start":2833.42,"end":2835.42,"text":"還有這個飛官等等"},{"start":2835.42,"end":2836.42,"text":"保六總隊這些"},{"start":2836.42,"end":2838.42,"text":"大概都是跟院長維安相關的"},{"start":2838.42,"end":2839.42,"text":"這個警察通人"},{"start":2839.42,"end":2840.42,"text":"以及院內的員工"},{"start":2840.42,"end":2841.42,"text":"以上簡單說"},{"start":2841.42,"end":2843.42,"text":"好 我們先保留 謝謝"},{"start":2843.42,"end":2845.42,"text":"53案保留 54案保留"},{"start":2845.42,"end":2846.42,"text":"我們進入第四幕"},{"start":2846.42,"end":2848.42,"text":"聯合服務業務"},{"start":2851.15,"end":2855.15,"text":"黃宏威委員提簡略2813萬"},{"start":2855.15,"end":2857.15,"text":"那個張民昌請表來一下"},{"start":2858.44,"end":2860.44,"text":"好 謝謝這個院長"},{"start":2860.44,"end":2861.44,"text":"也謝謝黃宏威委員"},{"start":2861.44,"end":2864.44,"text":"我們在委員會有稍微溝通過"},{"start":2864.44,"end":2866.44,"text":"第一個我必須表達說"},{"start":2866.44,"end":2868.44,"text":"這個聯合服務中心"},{"start":2868.44,"end":2870.44,"text":"大概就是中部雲嘉南"},{"start":2870.44,"end":2873.44,"text":"南部東部金馬澎"},{"start":2873.44,"end":2875.44,"text":"服務中心的相關的預算"},{"start":2875.44,"end":2877.44,"text":"去年在預算審查的時候"},{"start":2877.44,"end":2880.44,"text":"全數被刪除"},{"start":2880.44,"end":2882.44,"text":"那1月審查被刪除之後"},{"start":2882.44,"end":2884.44,"text":"也產生了一些"},{"start":2884.44,"end":2886.44,"text":"比較不良的後座力"},{"start":2886.44,"end":2888.44,"text":"例如中止這些聯合服務中心"},{"start":2888.44,"end":2890.44,"text":"勞務承攬的合約"},{"start":2890.44,"end":2891.44,"text":"大概有16個人"},{"start":2891.44,"end":2893.44,"text":"影響到16個人的生計"},{"start":2893.44,"end":2897.44,"text":"那經過後來立法院追加了972億"},{"start":2897.44,"end":2901.44,"text":"那讓5個聯合服務中心"},{"start":2901.44,"end":2903.44,"text":"能夠勉強維持運作"},{"start":2903.44,"end":2906.44,"text":"那如果照這樣的提案"},{"start":2909.58,"end":2911.58,"text":"在這樣子刪減下去的話"},{"start":2911.58,"end":2914.58,"text":"那我想接下來還有5個月"},{"start":2914.58,"end":2915.58,"text":"一個中心一個月"},{"start":2915.58,"end":2918.58,"text":"大概只剩下16萬多可以花"},{"start":2918.58,"end":2919.58,"text":"不到17萬可以花"},{"start":2919.58,"end":2921.58,"text":"那現在還有一個張志倫委員所提的"},{"start":2921.58,"end":2923.58,"text":"減列750萬新任態度怎麼樣"},{"start":2923.58,"end":2925.58,"text":"我想這個減列都會對"},{"start":2925.58,"end":2927.58,"text":"5個聯合服務中心造成影響"},{"start":2927.58,"end":2929.58,"text":"麻煩請王副委員補充說明"},{"start":2929.58,"end":2930.58,"text":"張院長"},{"start":2930.58,"end":2932.58,"text":"好 那個"},{"start":2932.96,"end":2934.96,"text":"主席還有我們各委員"},{"start":2934.96,"end":2936.96,"text":"還有行政院秘書長"},{"start":2936.96,"end":2937.96,"text":"各位官員"},{"start":2937.96,"end":2939.96,"text":"就是有關於聯合服務業務"},{"start":2939.96,"end":2941.96,"text":"我們在內政委員會的時候"},{"start":2941.96,"end":2942.96,"text":"有特別的說明"},{"start":2942.96,"end":2946.96,"text":"因為我們現在幾個聯合服務中心"},{"start":2946.96,"end":2950.96,"text":"第一個人事酬庸性非常非常的強"},{"start":2950.96,"end":2953.96,"text":"幾乎現在所有的聯合服務中心"},{"start":2953.96,"end":2956.96,"text":"從中部東部南部"},{"start":2956.96,"end":2958.96,"text":"都是酬庸"},{"start":2958.96,"end":2963.96,"text":"就是民進黨級的議員選輸了"},{"start":2963.96,"end":2966.96,"text":"然後就酬庸到這個聯合服務中心"},{"start":2966.96,"end":2968.96,"text":"好 那你除了酬庸之外"},{"start":2968.96,"end":2970.96,"text":"事實上呢"},{"start":2970.96,"end":2974.96,"text":"也在他們也參與非常非常多的政治的活動"},{"start":2974.96,"end":2976.96,"text":"我舉例來講"},{"start":2976.96,"end":2980.96,"text":"中部聯合服務中心在去年大罷免的時候"},{"start":2980.96,"end":2982.96,"text":"全力投入大罷免"},{"start":2982.96,"end":2984.96,"text":"當時聯合服務中心的執行長"},{"start":2984.96,"end":2986.96,"text":"叫莊靜晨"},{"start":2986.96,"end":2988.96,"text":"他全力投入大罷免"},{"start":2988.96,"end":2991.96,"text":"那等到大罷免大失敗之後"},{"start":2991.96,"end":2996.96,"text":"他在現在投入新竹市的市長的選舉"},{"start":2996.96,"end":3001.96,"text":"那我覺得今天我們作為這些聯合服務中心"},{"start":3001.96,"end":3004.96,"text":"應該是服務我們的老百姓"},{"start":3004.96,"end":3006.96,"text":"而不是服務我們的政治人物"},{"start":3006.96,"end":3011.96,"text":"不是等他在他的這個職務沒有了之後"},{"start":3011.96,"end":3014.96,"text":"然後把他酬庸到聯合服務中心"},{"start":3014.96,"end":3016.96,"text":"然後他等於是打聯合服務中心"},{"start":3016.96,"end":3018.96,"text":"再拿做跳板"},{"start":3018.96,"end":3020.96,"text":"然後繼續去做選舉"},{"start":3020.96,"end":3022.96,"text":"這是其二"},{"start":3022.96,"end":3024.96,"text":"第三更離譜的是"},{"start":3024.96,"end":3028.96,"text":"當這個莊靜晨這個執行長他離開之後"},{"start":3028.96,"end":3032.96,"text":"現任的執行長叫做陳景倫"},{"start":3032.96,"end":3034.96,"text":"陳景倫他也是"},{"start":3034.96,"end":3037.96,"text":"他也是這個原來的這個議員"},{"start":3037.96,"end":3038.96,"text":"就是落選之後"},{"start":3038.96,"end":3040.96,"text":"那當副執行長"},{"start":3040.96,"end":3042.96,"text":"那這個陳景倫"},{"start":3042.96,"end":3044.96,"text":"因為當時他還被爆發"},{"start":3044.96,"end":3047.96,"text":"他當時還去任職經濟部所屬的"},{"start":3047.96,"end":3049.96,"text":"雜糧發展基金會的執行長"},{"start":3049.96,"end":3052.96,"text":"他涉嫌虛報公堂"},{"start":3052.96,"end":3054.96,"text":"後來他自己是"},{"start":3054.96,"end":3058.96,"text":"拿自己的費用再去彌補這個虛報公堂"},{"start":3058.96,"end":3060.96,"text":"包含他的這個費用"},{"start":3060.96,"end":3062.96,"text":"他報這個公費"},{"start":3062.96,"end":3065.96,"text":"說他參加某某什麼會議"},{"start":3065.96,"end":3067.96,"text":"結果後來人家的會議紀錄裡面"},{"start":3067.96,"end":3069.96,"text":"根本沒有這個人來參加"},{"start":3069.96,"end":3071.96,"text":"那這麼離譜的事情"},{"start":3071.96,"end":3074.96,"text":"那這個人士其實從我們提出來之後"},{"start":3074.96,"end":3077.96,"text":"我也沒有看到行政院有什麼樣的調整"},{"start":3077.96,"end":3081.96,"text":"我可以理解聯合服中心他有一些"},{"start":3081.96,"end":3084.96,"text":"服務我們人民的一些服務項目"},{"start":3084.96,"end":3086.96,"text":"但是這些人士"},{"start":3086.96,"end":3088.96,"text":"不管是他的酬庸"},{"start":3088.96,"end":3089.96,"text":"或者變成選舉跳板"},{"start":3089.96,"end":3091.96,"text":"或者裡面有藏物納購"},{"start":3091.96,"end":3093.96,"text":"也應該處理"},{"start":3093.96,"end":3094.96,"text":"那另外就是說"},{"start":3094.96,"end":3095.96,"text":"在去年的時候"},{"start":3095.96,"end":3097.96,"text":"聯合服中心原來是全數刪除"},{"start":3097.96,"end":3100.96,"text":"後來在追加預算的時候"},{"start":3100.96,"end":3102.96,"text":"追加了大概九百多萬"},{"start":3102.96,"end":3103.96,"text":"將近一千萬"},{"start":3103.96,"end":3104.96,"text":"所以我這邊"},{"start":3104.96,"end":3108.96,"text":"本身就是繼續給他保留在去年"},{"start":3108.96,"end":3111.96,"text":"去年他追加預算之後的金額"},{"start":3111.96,"end":3112.96,"text":"這是我的提案"},{"start":3112.96,"end":3114.96,"text":"那另外就是"},{"start":3114.96,"end":3116.96,"text":"我在這邊也做一個說明"},{"start":3116.96,"end":3119.96,"text":"因為我們在內政委員會"},{"start":3119.96,"end":3122.96,"text":"在一輪二輪我們都有做一些討論"},{"start":3122.96,"end":3124.96,"text":"所以最後這個部分"},{"start":3124.96,"end":3127.96,"text":"我會尊重黨團之間的"},{"start":3127.96,"end":3128.96,"text":"一個協調"},{"start":3128.96,"end":3129.96,"text":"因為我要講的是"},{"start":3129.96,"end":3132.96,"text":"聯合服中心事實上是我們很多其他的委員"},{"start":3132.96,"end":3134.96,"text":"是很在乎的"},{"start":3134.96,"end":3135.96,"text":"尤其在人事上面"},{"start":3135.96,"end":3138.96,"text":"所以我做以上的這個報告跟說明"},{"start":3138.96,"end":3139.96,"text":"那台灣等一下"},{"start":3139.96,"end":3142.96,"text":"台灣民眾黨團提的是減列651萬"},{"start":3142.96,"end":3143.96,"text":"台灣民眾黨團要不要補充意見"},{"start":3146.58,"end":3147.58,"text":"好謝謝院長"},{"start":3147.58,"end":3151.58,"text":"那有關於這邊聯合服務中心的業務"},{"start":3151.58,"end":3156.58,"text":"我們剛剛提案委員也有多表達"},{"start":3156.58,"end":3159.58,"text":"最重要我們清楚的看到"},{"start":3159.58,"end":3165.58,"text":"聯合服務中心就是我們的一個人事酬用的一個單位"},{"start":3165.58,"end":3167.58,"text":"那這樣的一個事實"},{"start":3167.58,"end":3170.58,"text":"我想大家也看得很清楚"},{"start":3170.58,"end":3172.58,"text":"那在預算方面"},{"start":3172.58,"end":3177.58,"text":"114年本來立法院就全數刪除"},{"start":3177.58,"end":3180.58,"text":"後來最佳的預算"},{"start":3180.58,"end":3182.58,"text":"最佳的這個"},{"start":3183.5,"end":3185.5,"text":"975萬"},{"start":3186.49,"end":3189.49,"text":"最後行政院竟然用了"},{"start":3189.49,"end":3191.49,"text":"第二億倍金的方式"},{"start":3191.49,"end":3195.49,"text":"又來除去這2160萬"},{"start":3195.49,"end":3198.49,"text":"那基本上從去年的一個預算"},{"start":3198.49,"end":3202.49,"text":"從立法院的預算全刊"},{"start":3202.49,"end":3206.49,"text":"然後最佳的975萬"},{"start":3206.49,"end":3210.49,"text":"再動用二倍金2160萬"},{"start":3210.49,"end":3214.49,"text":"那基本上也表達了"},{"start":3214.49,"end":3218.49,"text":"聯合服務中心在這樣的一個預算基礎之下"},{"start":3218.49,"end":3220.49,"text":"就可以運作"},{"start":3220.49,"end":3224.49,"text":"所以本黨團是把114年"},{"start":3224.49,"end":3228.49,"text":"它所增加的651萬1000元"},{"start":3228.49,"end":3231.49,"text":"我們來提案檢慮"},{"start":3231.49,"end":3234.49,"text":"讓聯合服務中心基本上"},{"start":3234.49,"end":3237.49,"text":"透過它去年的預算"},{"start":3237.49,"end":3239.49,"text":"維持基本的一個運作"},{"start":3240.94,"end":3241.94,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":3241.94,"end":3242.94,"text":"稍微等一下"},{"start":3242.94,"end":3244.94,"text":"那個現在張秘書長"},{"start":3244.94,"end":3247.94,"text":"現在台灣民眾黨團提的651減的話"},{"start":3247.94,"end":3250.94,"text":"就回復到原來114年這樣"},{"start":3250.94,"end":3252.94,"text":"這個行政院能不能接受"},{"start":3254.22,"end":3256.22,"text":"跟院長補充三點"},{"start":3256.22,"end":3259.22,"text":"如果回到去年975億的話"},{"start":3259.22,"end":3261.22,"text":"那我們依照目前的執行數"},{"start":3261.22,"end":3263.22,"text":"已經975萬"},{"start":3263.22,"end":3265.22,"text":"那已經花了552萬了"},{"start":3265.22,"end":3266.22,"text":"也就是我剛剛講的"},{"start":3266.22,"end":3267.22,"text":"這樣子的話"},{"start":3267.22,"end":3269.22,"text":"如果五個中心剩下五個月"},{"start":3269.22,"end":3271.22,"text":"一個月只有16.92萬可以使用"},{"start":3271.22,"end":3272.22,"text":"顯然是不夠的"},{"start":3272.22,"end":3273.22,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":3274.3,"end":3277.3,"text":"秘書長 你先誤導喔"},{"start":3277.3,"end":3279.3,"text":"我們是把975萬加"},{"start":3279.3,"end":3281.3,"text":"212都給你喔"},{"start":3281.3,"end":3285.3,"text":"我們只是把212加的砍掉而已"},{"start":3285.3,"end":3288.3,"text":"你不能這樣來 誤導喔"},{"start":3288.3,"end":3291.3,"text":"王委員所提的是2813萬"},{"start":3291.3,"end":3294.3,"text":"台灣民眾黨團所提的是651萬1000"},{"start":3294.3,"end":3296.3,"text":"你說這個數字 秘書長"},{"start":3296.3,"end":3299.3,"text":"我希望能夠支持行政院的版本"},{"start":3299.3,"end":3300.3,"text":"這個第一個"},{"start":3300.3,"end":3303.3,"text":"李博義委員請發言 請掌握時間"},{"start":3303.35,"end":3306.35,"text":"很抱歉讓國瑜院長還在這邊主持"},{"start":3306.35,"end":3308.35,"text":"其實這個在內政委員會"},{"start":3308.35,"end":3309.35,"text":"有相當的進度"},{"start":3309.35,"end":3311.35,"text":"甚至王宏偉委員剛講的"},{"start":3311.35,"end":3313.35,"text":"在內政委員會也充分表達"},{"start":3313.35,"end":3315.35,"text":"那一天其實也發現說"},{"start":3315.35,"end":3317.35,"text":"有好幾個內政委員會的委員"},{"start":3317.35,"end":3319.35,"text":"都擔任過議員 包括你跟我"},{"start":3319.35,"end":3321.35,"text":"議員是最接地氣的"},{"start":3321.35,"end":3324.35,"text":"那後來其實在張宗涵秘書長"},{"start":3324.35,"end":3326.35,"text":"還原那天的現場"},{"start":3326.35,"end":3328.35,"text":"其實我們為什麼沒有繼續"},{"start":3328.35,"end":3330.35,"text":"來達到這個"},{"start":3331.83,"end":3333.83,"text":"為什麼繼續保留的原因"},{"start":3333.83,"end":3336.83,"text":"其實也覺得說後面還有協商"},{"start":3336.83,"end":3338.83,"text":"那行政院這邊還有其他的預算"},{"start":3338.83,"end":3340.83,"text":"所以我們來這邊來繼續做討論"},{"start":3340.83,"end":3342.83,"text":"那其實當天台灣民眾黨"},{"start":3342.83,"end":3345.83,"text":"也並沒有在那邊發表任何的這些意見"},{"start":3345.83,"end":3347.83,"text":"所以其實我想要講的是"},{"start":3347.83,"end":3349.83,"text":"中部服務中心 南部服務中心"},{"start":3349.83,"end":3351.83,"text":"跟東部服務中心"},{"start":3351.83,"end":3353.83,"text":"其實都有大量的民眾需求"},{"start":3353.83,"end":3355.83,"text":"需要去做這些"},{"start":3355.83,"end":3358.83,"text":"聯合服務中心的這些業務之外呢"},{"start":3358.83,"end":3360.83,"text":"現在所刪跟動"},{"start":3360.83,"end":3362.83,"text":"不要忘了 現在已經是7月31到"},{"start":3362.83,"end":3364.83,"text":"院長你可能想要"},{"start":3364.83,"end":3366.83,"text":"讓他刪讀通過的話"},{"start":3366.83,"end":3367.83,"text":"可能已經8月了"},{"start":3367.83,"end":3370.83,"text":"那也就是說已經過了三分之二了"},{"start":3370.83,"end":3373.83,"text":"那這些刪減的預算數跟比例"},{"start":3373.83,"end":3376.83,"text":"他可能都有造成相關的這些"},{"start":3376.83,"end":3378.83,"text":"行政院可能要說明一下"},{"start":3378.83,"end":3380.83,"text":"你剛剛講說只剩下每個"},{"start":3380.83,"end":3382.83,"text":"那個聯合服務中心"},{"start":3382.83,"end":3384.83,"text":"只剩下16萬可以支用"},{"start":3384.83,"end":3386.83,"text":"那我算起來其實是不夠的喔"},{"start":3386.83,"end":3388.83,"text":"我剛剛算這個"},{"start":3388.83,"end":3390.83,"text":"國民黨跟民眾黨"},{"start":3390.83,"end":3392.83,"text":"他刪減的這些預算的額度"},{"start":3392.83,"end":3394.83,"text":"他可能已經 你們可能"},{"start":3394.83,"end":3396.83,"text":"甚至已經花超過了"},{"start":3396.83,"end":3398.83,"text":"所以我想這個院長還是要跟行政院這邊"},{"start":3398.83,"end":3400.83,"text":"來多做協商"},{"start":3413.83,"end":3415.83,"text":"請"},{"start":3415.06,"end":3417.06,"text":"我想我們可以保留在做進一步的協商"},{"start":3417.06,"end":3419.06,"text":"但是院長容許我一點時間"},{"start":3419.06,"end":3421.06,"text":"再做一些補充喔"},{"start":3421.06,"end":3423.06,"text":"第一個就是說這個剛剛王委員提到的"},{"start":3423.06,"end":3425.06,"text":"莊敬成前立委他是先辭職"},{"start":3425.06,"end":3427.06,"text":"才去投入罷免的活動"},{"start":3427.06,"end":3429.06,"text":"這是第一個補充 第二個補充是"},{"start":3429.06,"end":3431.06,"text":"這個國民黨團的提案裡面"},{"start":3431.06,"end":3433.06,"text":"有提到說剛剛"},{"start":3433.06,"end":3435.06,"text":"王宏偉委員有提到說這些人都是"},{"start":3435.06,"end":3437.06,"text":"仇庸喔 我可能念幾個人名"},{"start":3437.06,"end":3439.06,"text":"也許是院長的老朋友"},{"start":3439.06,"end":3441.06,"text":"也許是在座的老朋友"},{"start":3441.06,"end":3444.06,"text":"像陳志兵 侯慧仙委員"},{"start":3444.06,"end":3446.06,"text":"他們都是當過國民黨的委員"},{"start":3446.06,"end":3448.06,"text":"那包括這個羅世雄"},{"start":3448.06,"end":3450.06,"text":"這個江林軍"},{"start":3450.06,"end":3452.06,"text":"也都是國民黨的委員"},{"start":3452.06,"end":3454.06,"text":"那包括了"},{"start":3454.06,"end":3456.06,"text":"我上次有提過的張立善"},{"start":3456.06,"end":3458.06,"text":"縣長 那包括了這個"},{"start":3458.06,"end":3460.06,"text":"高陽生前立委"},{"start":3460.06,"end":3462.06,"text":"等等他們也都當過"},{"start":3462.06,"end":3464.06,"text":"聯合服務中心的執行長或副執行長"},{"start":3464.06,"end":3466.06,"text":"所以我想我們不要雙標"},{"start":3466.06,"end":3468.06,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3468.06,"end":3470.06,"text":"好 我們58案改主決議"},{"start":3470.06,"end":3472.06,"text":"61案改主決議"},{"start":3472.06,"end":3474.06,"text":"其他我們就保留"},{"start":3474.06,"end":3476.06,"text":"我們進入第五幕"},{"start":3476.06,"end":3478.06,"text":"災害防救及國土安全"},{"start":3478.06,"end":3480.06,"text":"台灣民眾黨團"},{"start":3480.06,"end":3482.06,"text":"凍結500萬"},{"start":3482.06,"end":3484.06,"text":"請張民長先說明"},{"start":3484.06,"end":3486.06,"text":"台灣民眾黨團請準備"},{"start":3489.41,"end":3491.41,"text":"好 謝謝院長"},{"start":3491.41,"end":3493.41,"text":"謝謝那個台灣民眾黨團"},{"start":3493.41,"end":3495.41,"text":"沒有就災防業務做刪減"},{"start":3495.41,"end":3497.41,"text":"確實我認為"},{"start":3497.41,"end":3499.41,"text":"跨機關通訊整合"},{"start":3499.41,"end":3501.41,"text":"這個指揮架構的精進計畫"},{"start":3501.41,"end":3503.41,"text":"又或者是這個落實"},{"start":3503.41,"end":3505.41,"text":"資安這個"},{"start":3505.41,"end":3507.41,"text":"風險的這個計畫"},{"start":3507.41,"end":3509.41,"text":"對於災防業務都是相當重要的"},{"start":3509.41,"end":3511.41,"text":"但是能不能建請"},{"start":3511.41,"end":3513.41,"text":"這個三個黨團"},{"start":3513.41,"end":3515.41,"text":"災防業務可能一天都沒辦法凍結"},{"start":3515.41,"end":3517.41,"text":"那現在也是防汛期間"},{"start":3517.41,"end":3519.41,"text":"是否能夠建請改成主決議"},{"start":3519.41,"end":3521.41,"text":"但是報告我們一樣會交"},{"start":3521.41,"end":3523.41,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":3523.41,"end":3525.41,"text":"我們請台灣民眾黨團提案黨團請不要打意見"},{"start":3525.69,"end":3527.69,"text":"好 謝謝院長"},{"start":3527.69,"end":3529.69,"text":"那我想剛剛"},{"start":3529.69,"end":3531.69,"text":"張秘書長也提到"},{"start":3531.69,"end":3533.69,"text":"採訪的一個重點"},{"start":3533.69,"end":3535.69,"text":"所以我們會提這個案子"},{"start":3535.69,"end":3537.69,"text":"最主要是我們在"},{"start":3537.69,"end":3539.69,"text":"台北市1219的一個攻擊事件"},{"start":3539.69,"end":3541.69,"text":"在張秘書長那個事件"},{"start":3543.09,"end":3545.09,"text":"突顯出"},{"start":3545.09,"end":3547.09,"text":"我們的台北車站"},{"start":3547.09,"end":3549.09,"text":"那其實不只是台北車站"},{"start":3549.09,"end":3551.09,"text":"包括南港班橋"},{"start":3551.09,"end":3553.09,"text":"中部的五日南部的佐音"},{"start":3553.09,"end":3555.09,"text":"這種大型"},{"start":3555.09,"end":3557.09,"text":"供購車站的一個地下城"},{"start":3557.09,"end":3559.09,"text":"存在的一個"},{"start":3559.09,"end":3561.09,"text":"通訊的視角"},{"start":3561.09,"end":3563.09,"text":"那從事件當中我們也就"},{"start":3563.09,"end":3565.09,"text":"發覺到"},{"start":3565.09,"end":3567.09,"text":"這是我們一個很重要"},{"start":3567.09,"end":3569.09,"text":"要立即要去改善"},{"start":3569.09,"end":3571.09,"text":"要去處理的一個案子"},{"start":3571.09,"end":3573.09,"text":"那在這裡我們提出"},{"start":3573.09,"end":3575.09,"text":"凍結案"},{"start":3575.09,"end":3577.09,"text":"我們並不是刪減預算"},{"start":3577.09,"end":3579.09,"text":"我們希望在這樣的一個事件"},{"start":3579.09,"end":3581.09,"text":"我們發覺到"},{"start":3581.09,"end":3583.09,"text":"我們在通訊"},{"start":3583.09,"end":3585.09,"text":"救災"},{"start":3585.09,"end":3587.09,"text":"這樣的一個安全的一個"},{"start":3587.09,"end":3589.09,"text":"界面的一個聯繫上"},{"start":3589.09,"end":3591.09,"text":"產生這麼大的視角"},{"start":3591.09,"end":3593.09,"text":"跟漏洞"},{"start":3593.09,"end":3595.09,"text":"應該要趕快去把它補齊"},{"start":3595.09,"end":3597.09,"text":"把它建置"},{"start":3597.09,"end":3599.09,"text":"所以本黨團提出了一個凍結案"},{"start":3599.09,"end":3601.09,"text":"我們的目的"},{"start":3601.09,"end":3603.09,"text":"是要我們的行政機關"},{"start":3603.09,"end":3605.09,"text":"相關跨部會"},{"start":3605.09,"end":3607.09,"text":"在行政院的這個統籌之下"},{"start":3607.09,"end":3609.09,"text":"能夠來用立體的"},{"start":3609.09,"end":3611.09,"text":"來補出"},{"start":3611.09,"end":3613.09,"text":"這樣的一個缺口"},{"start":3613.09,"end":3615.09,"text":"所以我們提出凍結案"},{"start":3615.09,"end":3617.09,"text":"那只要我們行政院"},{"start":3617.09,"end":3619.09,"text":"陳永昭 容我提醒你一下"},{"start":3619.09,"end":3621.09,"text":"你有兩個凍結"},{"start":3621.09,"end":3623.09,"text":"你後面還有一個凍結236萬"},{"start":3623.09,"end":3625.09,"text":"你是以凍結500萬為主"},{"start":3625.09,"end":3627.09,"text":"還是凍結236萬"},{"start":3626.6,"end":3628.6,"text":"兩萬"},{"start":3628.16,"end":3630.16,"text":"兩岸冰凍"},{"start":3630.16,"end":3632.16,"text":"兩岸冰凍"},{"start":3632.16,"end":3634.16,"text":"兩岸冰凍"},{"start":3633.32,"end":3635.32,"text":"那我們就達成共識了"},{"start":3635.32,"end":3637.32,"text":"凍結200萬 你是兩岸"},{"start":3637.32,"end":3639.32,"text":"凍結該什麼"},{"start":3639.32,"end":3641.32,"text":"OK"},{"start":3641.64,"end":3643.64,"text":"好"},{"start":3644.49,"end":3646.49,"text":"啊"},{"start":3646.23,"end":3648.23,"text":"兩個案子一通 一通就隨便報告"},{"start":3648.23,"end":3650.23,"text":"凍結案 解凍結"},{"start":3651.97,"end":3653.97,"text":"500萬"},{"start":3653.97,"end":3655.97,"text":"不是你"},{"start":3655.97,"end":3657.97,"text":"64案是236案"},{"start":3657.97,"end":3659.97,"text":"同樣一個案"},{"start":3659.97,"end":3661.97,"text":"所以你有兩個數字"},{"start":3661.97,"end":3663.97,"text":"不同的理由 我知道"},{"start":3663.97,"end":3665.97,"text":"我意思說如果你同意是64的話"},{"start":3665.97,"end":3667.97,"text":"236我就問張秘書長"},{"start":3667.97,"end":3669.97,"text":"同意凍結500萬"},{"start":3669.5,"end":3671.5,"text":"那就沒有64案了"},{"start":3673.3,"end":3675.3,"text":"可以啊"},{"start":3675.19,"end":3677.19,"text":"兩岸冰凍500萬"},{"start":3678.83,"end":3680.83,"text":"現在已經8月了"},{"start":3680.83,"end":3682.83,"text":"這是防災耶"},{"start":3682.83,"end":3684.83,"text":"兩岸冰凍500萬"},{"start":3684.83,"end":3686.83,"text":"就是64案"},{"start":3686.83,"end":3688.83,"text":"64案"},{"start":3688.83,"end":3690.83,"text":"236"},{"start":3690.83,"end":3692.83,"text":"你現在提書面 張秘書長請表達意見"},{"start":3692.83,"end":3694.83,"text":"院長跟陳總召可不可以拜託"},{"start":3694.83,"end":3696.83,"text":"因為防汛很重要"},{"start":3696.83,"end":3698.83,"text":"兩岸冰凍236萬"},{"start":3698.83,"end":3700.83,"text":"然後我們交書面報告解凍好不好"},{"start":3700.83,"end":3702.83,"text":"我們照64案凍236萬"},{"start":3702.83,"end":3704.83,"text":"然後剩下書面"},{"start":3705.93,"end":3707.93,"text":"謝謝陳總召"},{"start":3708.62,"end":3710.62,"text":"我們62案"},{"start":3710.62,"end":3712.62,"text":"跟64案併動 63案"},{"start":3712.62,"end":3714.62,"text":"黃仁偉所提的改組決議"},{"start":3714.62,"end":3716.62,"text":"那我們凍結236萬"},{"start":3716.62,"end":3718.62,"text":"3000元"},{"start":3718.62,"end":3720.62,"text":"改書面好不好"},{"start":3720.62,"end":3722.62,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":3722.62,"end":3724.62,"text":"那我們進入第七幕消保及食安"},{"start":3725.51,"end":3727.51,"text":"徐毅真委員所提"},{"start":3727.51,"end":3729.51,"text":"簡列339萬"},{"start":3729.51,"end":3731.51,"text":"請張秘書長表達意見"},{"start":3731.08,"end":3733.08,"text":"徐毅真委員請準備"},{"start":3736.27,"end":3738.27,"text":"徐毅真委員你先發言"},{"start":3738.97,"end":3740.97,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":3740.97,"end":3742.97,"text":"我想針對這一案"},{"start":3742.97,"end":3744.97,"text":"主要是因為在115年的時候"},{"start":3744.97,"end":3746.97,"text":"在行政院增加的消保"},{"start":3746.97,"end":3748.97,"text":"跟食安業務的編列經費"},{"start":3748.97,"end":3750.97,"text":"比114年"},{"start":3750.97,"end":3752.97,"text":"增加了"},{"start":3752.97,"end":3754.97,"text":"339萬2000"},{"start":3754.97,"end":3756.97,"text":"那當然行政院"},{"start":3756.97,"end":3758.97,"text":"食安辦的業務"},{"start":3758.97,"end":3760.97,"text":"主要是要負責統籌食安政策"},{"start":3760.97,"end":3762.97,"text":"整合專案跟地方權責"},{"start":3762.97,"end":3764.97,"text":"機關以及多處食安風險預警"},{"start":3764.97,"end":3766.97,"text":"跨部會聯合機場"},{"start":3766.97,"end":3768.97,"text":"食品名的勾集跟"},{"start":3768.97,"end":3770.97,"text":"問題產品的回收等等"},{"start":3770.97,"end":3772.97,"text":"但中聯有指的自來油事件"},{"start":3772.97,"end":3774.97,"text":"發生到現在我們可以發覺"},{"start":3774.97,"end":3776.97,"text":"他並不是由政府主動發現"},{"start":3776.97,"end":3778.97,"text":"而是由下游業者自主檢驗後"},{"start":3778.97,"end":3780.97,"text":"再逐步的揭露"},{"start":3780.97,"end":3782.97,"text":"所以顯示就是說行政院所建置的"},{"start":3782.97,"end":3784.97,"text":"食安防線沒有辦法及時的發揮作用"},{"start":3784.97,"end":3786.97,"text":"所以針對這個部分我們認為"},{"start":3786.97,"end":3788.97,"text":"食安辦在這個部分"},{"start":3788.97,"end":3790.97,"text":"顯然還有很多需要"},{"start":3790.97,"end":3792.97,"text":"有明顯的缺失還有很多的"},{"start":3792.97,"end":3794.97,"text":"問題所以我提出"},{"start":3794.97,"end":3796.97,"text":"就是今年度增加的339萬2000元"},{"start":3796.97,"end":3798.97,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":3798.97,"end":3800.97,"text":"那個張院長請稍待"},{"start":3800.97,"end":3802.97,"text":"台灣民眾黨團統一案"},{"start":3802.97,"end":3804.97,"text":"是全速凍結陳總召你們"},{"start":3804.97,"end":3806.97,"text":"要補充"},{"start":3807.32,"end":3809.32,"text":"陳宇、徐宇貞委員是"},{"start":3809.32,"end":3811.32,"text":"剪裂339萬你們是全速凍結"},{"start":3812.16,"end":3814.16,"text":"請你補充一下好嗎"},{"start":3814.56,"end":3816.56,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":3816.56,"end":3818.56,"text":"食安的部分我想我們在這一次的"},{"start":3818.56,"end":3820.56,"text":"獨有事件"},{"start":3820.56,"end":3822.56,"text":"全國人民也看得很清楚"},{"start":3822.56,"end":3824.56,"text":"那最後我們立法委員"},{"start":3824.56,"end":3826.56,"text":"針對我們"},{"start":3826.56,"end":3828.56,"text":"食安的一個"},{"start":3828.36,"end":3830.36,"text":"這樣的一個行政院"},{"start":3830.36,"end":3832.36,"text":"處理的一個方向"},{"start":3832.36,"end":3834.36,"text":"走板我們都看到"},{"start":3834.36,"end":3836.36,"text":"那這樣的一個業務"},{"start":3836.36,"end":3838.36,"text":"我們採取全案凍結"},{"start":3838.36,"end":3840.36,"text":"就是"},{"start":3840.36,"end":3842.36,"text":"1432萬全速凍結"},{"start":3842.36,"end":3844.36,"text":"我們那個目的"},{"start":3844.36,"end":3846.36,"text":"很簡單食安"},{"start":3846.36,"end":3848.36,"text":"我們必須要求"},{"start":3848.36,"end":3850.36,"text":"行政院要全力的"},{"start":3850.36,"end":3852.36,"text":"去做好"},{"start":3852.36,"end":3854.36,"text":"這樣的一個業務"},{"start":3854.36,"end":3856.36,"text":"那我們用凍結"},{"start":3856.36,"end":3858.36,"text":"是要來逼我們行政院"},{"start":3858.36,"end":3860.36,"text":"真的用最快速度"},{"start":3860.36,"end":3862.36,"text":"最嚴謹最負責任"},{"start":3862.36,"end":3864.36,"text":"的一個方式"},{"start":3864.36,"end":3866.36,"text":"來保障我們全國人民的"},{"start":3866.36,"end":3868.36,"text":"食品安全"},{"start":3868.36,"end":3870.36,"text":"那我們希望透過"},{"start":3870.36,"end":3872.36,"text":"我們一個凍結"},{"start":3872.36,"end":3874.36,"text":"能夠來突出行政院"},{"start":3874.36,"end":3876.36,"text":"來立刻的一個"},{"start":3876.36,"end":3878.36,"text":"有效的一個執行"},{"start":3878.36,"end":3880.36,"text":"那在這個部分"},{"start":3880.36,"end":3882.36,"text":"那請院長來支持"},{"start":3884.01,"end":3886.01,"text":"那現在台灣民眾黨團"},{"start":3886.01,"end":3888.01,"text":"許中信委又提了一個案"},{"start":3888.01,"end":3890.01,"text":"凍結10% 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.81,"end":4662.81,"text":"各個機關有它的一個業務"},{"start":4662.81,"end":4664.81,"text":"那不是都留於政治上的一個口號"},{"start":4664.81,"end":4666.81,"text":"或者說對哪一個首長的一個不滿"},{"start":4668.81,"end":4670.81,"text":"甚至於有人離職完以後"},{"start":4670.81,"end":4672.81,"text":"你會覺得你離職以後你為什麼可以去投入哪些"},{"start":4672.81,"end":4674.81,"text":"工作"},{"start":4674.81,"end":4676.81,"text":"這個跟整個預算的一個審查都已經失去"},{"start":4676.81,"end":4678.81,"text":"的一個關聯性"},{"start":4678.81,"end":4680.81,"text":"再考慮一下"},{"start":4680.81,"end":4682.81,"text":"地方政府我相信你們在審的時候"},{"start":4682.81,"end":4684.81,"text":"也不是這樣審"},{"start":4684.81,"end":4686.81,"text":"到了中央以後大家只是因為政治立場的一個不同"},{"start":4686.81,"end":4688.81,"text":"對於整個行政部門"},{"start":4688.81,"end":4690.81,"text":"所提出來的這些預算"},{"start":4690.81,"end":4692.81,"text":"你連它的一個必要性"},{"start":4692.81,"end":4694.81,"text":"你連它的一個執行率是否這個計畫"},{"start":4694.81,"end":4696.81,"text":"有必要去做或者說有沒有重複"},{"start":4696.81,"end":4698.81,"text":"全部都沒有看到專業的一個審查"},{"start":4698.81,"end":4700.81,"text":"全部都充滿了這樣政治性的一個"},{"start":4700.81,"end":4702.81,"text":"個人情緒性的一個"},{"start":4702.81,"end":4704.81,"text":"報復性的一個審查"},{"start":4704.81,"end":4706.81,"text":"這樣可能比較不好啦"},{"start":4706.81,"end":4708.81,"text":"我還是期待說我們整個朝野協商裡面"},{"start":4708.81,"end":4710.81,"text":"是針對整個預算"},{"start":4710.81,"end":4712.81,"text":"讓行政部門它有沒有辦法去完成"},{"start":4712.81,"end":4714.81,"text":"對個別首長有所不滿"},{"start":4714.81,"end":4716.81,"text":"那個不應該是計要費的一個問題"},{"start":4716.81,"end":4718.81,"text":"以上"},{"start":4718.81,"end":4720.81,"text":"謝謝張瑞雄委員的發言"},{"start":4720.81,"end":4722.81,"text":"張院長請表達意見好嗎謝謝"},{"start":4722.81,"end":4724.81,"text":"好謝謝院長謝謝各位委員喔"},{"start":4724.81,"end":4726.81,"text":"首先我必須要表達"},{"start":4726.81,"end":4728.81,"text":"這個"},{"start":4728.14,"end":4730.14,"text":"誠我一開始所報告的喔"},{"start":4730.14,"end":4732.14,"text":"行政院新聞局是2012年裁測"},{"start":4732.14,"end":4734.14,"text":"2013年開始有"},{"start":4734.14,"end":4736.14,"text":"新聞傳播業務的預算"},{"start":4736.14,"end":4738.14,"text":"2013年那一年"},{"start":4738.14,"end":4740.14,"text":"新聞傳播的預算是9466萬"},{"start":4740.14,"end":4742.14,"text":"整體行政院的煤炫費是"},{"start":4742.14,"end":4744.14,"text":"4734萬"},{"start":4744.14,"end":4746.14,"text":"那今年行政院編列"},{"start":4747.26,"end":4749.26,"text":"新聞傳播的業務是"},{"start":4749.26,"end":4751.26,"text":"5254萬"},{"start":4751.26,"end":4753.26,"text":"那煤炫費總共是1678萬"},{"start":4754.55,"end":4756.55,"text":"10過13年喔13年前"},{"start":4756.55,"end":4758.55,"text":"基本工資是109塊"},{"start":4758.55,"end":4760.55,"text":"這個月薪不到2萬塊"},{"start":4760.55,"end":4762.55,"text":"現在已經是月薪"},{"start":4762.55,"end":4764.55,"text":"29500了"},{"start":4764.55,"end":4766.55,"text":"過了13年行政院編的預算"},{"start":4766.55,"end":4768.55,"text":"也只有20"},{"start":4768.55,"end":4770.55,"text":"2013年的時候大概的一半"},{"start":4770.55,"end":4772.55,"text":"2013年那個時候的行政院發言人"},{"start":4772.55,"end":4774.55,"text":"正是鄭立文主席"},{"start":4774.55,"end":4776.55,"text":"第一個要強調的"},{"start":4776.55,"end":4778.55,"text":"第二個"},{"start":4777.23,"end":4779.23,"text":"這筆5254萬當中"},{"start":4779.23,"end":4781.23,"text":"並不是全部都煤炫費"},{"start":4783.22,"end":4785.22,"text":"我剛剛所報告的"},{"start":4785.22,"end":4787.22,"text":"行政院的煤炫費總共也才"},{"start":4787.22,"end":4789.22,"text":"1678萬所以5254萬"},{"start":4789.22,"end":4791.22,"text":"全部都刪除的話"},{"start":4791.22,"end":4793.22,"text":"會刪除到哪些"},{"start":4793.22,"end":4795.22,"text":"部分呢就像昨天"},{"start":4795.22,"end":4797.22,"text":"大家也許講到氣氛不好的"},{"start":4797.22,"end":4799.22,"text":"約用人員的薪水"},{"start":4799.22,"end":4801.22,"text":"在這個計畫裡面"},{"start":4801.22,"end":4803.22,"text":"有8名約用人員的薪水"},{"start":4803.22,"end":4805.22,"text":"是包含在這個計畫裡面的"},{"start":4805.22,"end":4807.22,"text":"也因為去年全數被刪除了"},{"start":4807.22,"end":4809.22,"text":"所以才有我昨天所報告的"},{"start":4809.22,"end":4811.22,"text":"我們必須先把這些約用人員"},{"start":4811.22,"end":4813.22,"text":"解聘了再跟行政院"},{"start":4813.22,"end":4815.22,"text":"人事總署要求聘用原額"},{"start":4815.22,"end":4817.22,"text":"然後我們再去找他聘回來"},{"start":4817.22,"end":4819.22,"text":"這種很複雜而且不應該"},{"start":4819.22,"end":4821.22,"text":"出現的不正常的狀況"},{"start":4821.22,"end":4823.22,"text":"那也包括了這個新聞"},{"start":4823.22,"end":4825.22,"text":"傳播處他的水電費"},{"start":4825.22,"end":4827.22,"text":"他的國內旅費"},{"start":4827.22,"end":4829.22,"text":"包括輿情收報"},{"start":4829.22,"end":4831.22,"text":"的系統等等"},{"start":4831.22,"end":4833.22,"text":"他不是全部都是煤炫費"},{"start":4833.22,"end":4835.22,"text":"煤炫費的部分昨天院長已經指示了"},{"start":4835.22,"end":4837.22,"text":"就是通案來處理"},{"start":4837.22,"end":4839.22,"text":"我要拜託院長行政院"},{"start":4839.22,"end":4841.22,"text":"新聞傳播處有67位同仁"},{"start":4841.22,"end":4843.22,"text":"他們需要基本的工作"},{"start":4843.22,"end":4845.22,"text":"維持那我要報告國民黨團"},{"start":4845.22,"end":4847.22,"text":"67位同仁裡面"},{"start":4847.22,"end":4849.22,"text":"有超過一半"},{"start":4849.22,"end":4851.22,"text":"34位同仁當年也跟鄭麗文主席"},{"start":4851.22,"end":4853.22,"text":"一起共事過所以可不可以"},{"start":4853.22,"end":4855.22,"text":"不要全部刪除"},{"start":4855.22,"end":4857.22,"text":"讓行政院新聞傳播處的"},{"start":4857.22,"end":4859.22,"text":"工作同仁能夠有基本"},{"start":4859.22,"end":4861.22,"text":"可以工作的需求以上說明"},{"start":4861.22,"end":4863.22,"text":"謝謝張院長補充說明"},{"start":4863.22,"end":4865.22,"text":"第九幕新聞傳播業務"},{"start":4865.22,"end":4867.22,"text":"第78案華人委員"},{"start":4867.22,"end":4869.22,"text":"所提改主決議"},{"start":4869.22,"end":4871.22,"text":"第79案張宏祿委員"},{"start":4871.22,"end":4873.22,"text":"所提改主決議"},{"start":4873.22,"end":4875.22,"text":"第80案林沛祥委員所提"},{"start":4875.22,"end":4877.22,"text":"我們並通案辦理"},{"start":4877.22,"end":4879.22,"text":"其餘全部保留"},{"start":4879.22,"end":4883.22,"text":"我們進入第十幕人權及轉型正義"},{"start":4883.99,"end":4889.99,"text":"廖先祥、翁曉琳所提全數簡列1315案"},{"start":4889.99,"end":4895.99,"text":"林沛祥委員所提簡列650萬"},{"start":4895.99,"end":4899.99,"text":"林沛祥委員也是一樣並翁曉琳委員"},{"start":4899.99,"end":4903.99,"text":"王安祥委員凍結200萬"},{"start":4904.01,"end":4906.01,"text":"然後循序委員"},{"start":4906.93,"end":4908.93,"text":"凍結5%"},{"start":4908.93,"end":4910.93,"text":"張宏祿委員改為主決議"},{"start":4910.93,"end":4914.93,"text":"好,請翁曉琳委員表達意見完之後"},{"start":4914.93,"end":4916.93,"text":"台灣民眾黨團請準備"},{"start":4918.72,"end":4921.72,"text":"好,那麼針對有關人權及轉型正義的業務"},{"start":4921.72,"end":4923.72,"text":"本心認為這筆預算應該全數刪除"},{"start":4923.72,"end":4926.72,"text":"我們知道其實人權及轉型業務"},{"start":4926.72,"end":4930.72,"text":"最重要的就是要能夠捍衛我們國民的權利"},{"start":4930.72,"end":4933.72,"text":"但是我們知道現在我們立法院三讀通過"},{"start":4933.72,"end":4934.72,"text":"要給軍人的加急"},{"start":4934.72,"end":4937.72,"text":"要維護軍人的這個薪資待遇這些權利"},{"start":4937.72,"end":4939.72,"text":"行政院沒有做到"},{"start":4939.72,"end":4941.72,"text":"然後我們通過了很多的法律案"},{"start":4941.72,"end":4943.72,"text":"那麼行政院院長不附屬"},{"start":4943.72,"end":4944.72,"text":"賴清德不公告"},{"start":4944.72,"end":4947.72,"text":"這都涉及到媒體業者的權利"},{"start":4947.72,"end":4950.72,"text":"還有一些老居眷村住民的一些權利"},{"start":4950.72,"end":4954.72,"text":"當他們這些人權最重要的事項都沒有捍衛到"},{"start":4954.72,"end":4956.72,"text":"那麼為什麼要給他們業務經費"},{"start":4956.72,"end":4959.72,"text":"所以在這邊的話我堅持全數刪除以上"},{"start":4960.54,"end":4961.54,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4961.54,"end":4964.54,"text":"我們現在93案已經改為主決議"},{"start":4964.54,"end":4966.54,"text":"94案改為主決議"},{"start":4966.54,"end":4967.54,"text":"廖先生委員"},{"start":4967.54,"end":4969.54,"text":"93案是王美慧委員"},{"start":4969.54,"end":4971.54,"text":"95案林佩祥委員是併通案"},{"start":4971.54,"end":4973.54,"text":"所以現在台灣民眾黨團"},{"start":4974.53,"end":4976.53,"text":"表達完意見之後范雲委員表達"},{"start":4976.53,"end":4978.53,"text":"范雲委員表達完之後請"},{"start":4978.76,"end":4980.76,"text":"對 請康秘書長不要急"},{"start":4980.76,"end":4982.76,"text":"請張秘書長跟著表達"},{"start":4982.76,"end":4984.76,"text":"我們先把這個次序先點一下"},{"start":4984.76,"end":4987.76,"text":"現在接下來我們請王安祥委員表達意見"},{"start":4987.76,"end":4988.76,"text":"范雲委員請準備"},{"start":4988.76,"end":4993.76,"text":"主席這個台灣民眾黨的幾個案子都是我提的"},{"start":4993.76,"end":4996.76,"text":"基本上我提的案子大概主要大家可以看到"},{"start":4996.76,"end":5000.76,"text":"主要就是集中在我們人權的這個部分"},{"start":5000.76,"end":5003.76,"text":"因為現在我昨天主持這個修憲案的時候"},{"start":5003.76,"end":5005.76,"text":"也有很多的語彙的學者"},{"start":5005.76,"end":5006.76,"text":"也非常重視這個事情"},{"start":5006.76,"end":5008.76,"text":"所以基本上我這幾個案子都是涉及到"},{"start":5008.76,"end":5011.76,"text":"把我們的漁業 漁業的人權"},{"start":5011.76,"end":5014.76,"text":"跟這個我們有一個漁撈的公約的事情法"},{"start":5014.76,"end":5015.76,"text":"現在還在行政院"},{"start":5015.76,"end":5018.76,"text":"那另外就是我們希望跟這次ART有關的"},{"start":5018.76,"end":5021.76,"text":"希望我們能夠做一些進資調查"},{"start":5021.76,"end":5025.76,"text":"那一天那個副院長有來跟我做說明"},{"start":5025.76,"end":5029.76,"text":"那還有一輪在這個今年年底就會有一些具體的進展"},{"start":5029.76,"end":5030.76,"text":"所以那天我也答應"},{"start":5030.76,"end":5032.76,"text":"就是這三案都改為主決議 以上"},{"start":5032.76,"end":5036.76,"text":"好 謝謝 我們87案 88案 89案"},{"start":5036.76,"end":5041.76,"text":"台灣民眾黨團完想委員已經改為主決議"},{"start":5041.76,"end":5043.76,"text":"好 范院委員請發言 張院長請準備"},{"start":5045.45,"end":5048.45,"text":"我想針對這個廖先祥委員"},{"start":5048.45,"end":5052.45,"text":"他要把人權處的1000多萬的經費全數減列"},{"start":5052.45,"end":5055.45,"text":"那我真的要拜託不要這樣做"},{"start":5055.45,"end":5057.45,"text":"那我想先念一段話給大家聽"},{"start":5057.45,"end":5060.45,"text":"捍衛民主與人權的工作"},{"start":5060.45,"end":5064.45,"text":"永遠值得被支持 被記住 被延續"},{"start":5064.45,"end":5066.45,"text":"期許大家一起繼續努力"},{"start":5066.45,"end":5069.45,"text":"院長應該覺得這個很熟悉吧"},{"start":5069.45,"end":5071.45,"text":"這是立法院的新聞稿"},{"start":5071.45,"end":5077.45,"text":"是我們韓院長出席2005年亞洲民主人權獎頒獎給"},{"start":5077.45,"end":5081.45,"text":"就是來自印尼的未弱勢人權工作者"},{"start":5081.45,"end":5083.45,"text":"他講的話非常好"},{"start":5083.45,"end":5085.45,"text":"而且是我們立法院的新聞稿發出的"},{"start":5085.45,"end":5088.45,"text":"那我想在我們院長主持下"},{"start":5088.45,"end":5091.45,"text":"人權處的經費全數被刪減"},{"start":5091.45,"end":5095.45,"text":"我真的覺得很不給我們韓院長面子"},{"start":5095.45,"end":5096.45,"text":"那我也要講一下"},{"start":5096.45,"end":5100.45,"text":"其實這個人權處有個工作很重要的是"},{"start":5100.45,"end":5102.45,"text":"國際人權的交流"},{"start":5102.45,"end":5105.45,"text":"最近院長還是江副院長接見的時候"},{"start":5105.45,"end":5108.45,"text":"其實民眾黨的立委也有出席"},{"start":5108.45,"end":5109.45,"text":"那為什麼會有這個業務"},{"start":5109.45,"end":5111.45,"text":"其實人權處的工作就是"},{"start":5111.45,"end":5114.45,"text":"過去我們簽署了很多的公約"},{"start":5114.45,"end":5118.45,"text":"他必須要找聯合國相關的審查委員來這裡"},{"start":5118.45,"end":5120.45,"text":"這都是人權處的業務之一"},{"start":5120.45,"end":5122.45,"text":"讓我們的部會跟立委"},{"start":5122.45,"end":5126.45,"text":"NGO有機會能夠交流接軌國際"},{"start":5126.45,"end":5129.45,"text":"那我要提醒我們在場的藍營立委"},{"start":5129.45,"end":5132.45,"text":"這些國際人權公約是誰簽的"},{"start":5132.45,"end":5136.45,"text":"其實主要都是在2008年跟2016年"},{"start":5136.45,"end":5138.45,"text":"馬總統簽署的"},{"start":5138.45,"end":5140.45,"text":"最重要的三大聯合國的公約"},{"start":5140.45,"end":5143.45,"text":"婦女人權公約就是我剛剛說的CEDAW"},{"start":5143.45,"end":5145.45,"text":"最近來見我們藍白的立委的"},{"start":5145.45,"end":5148.45,"text":"還有兒童還有身障者的公約"},{"start":5148.45,"end":5151.45,"text":"不僅是在馬總統任內簽署最多"},{"start":5151.45,"end":5155.45,"text":"而且也是在藍營是國會多數的時候"},{"start":5155.45,"end":5156.45,"text":"國內法化"},{"start":5156.45,"end":5158.45,"text":"所以我覺得這個全數刪減"},{"start":5158.45,"end":5159.45,"text":"人權處"},{"start":5159.45,"end":5163.45,"text":"然後理由是一個政治報復軍人的部分"},{"start":5163.45,"end":5164.45,"text":"那兒童的人權"},{"start":5164.45,"end":5165.45,"text":"身障者的人權"},{"start":5165.45,"end":5168.45,"text":"還有婦女人權的接軌的工作"},{"start":5168.45,"end":5169.45,"text":"全數都被刪除"},{"start":5169.45,"end":5171.45,"text":"我真的覺得馬總統"},{"start":5171.45,"end":5173.45,"text":"如果他看到的話"},{"start":5173.45,"end":5175.45,"text":"他也會很傷心很難過"},{"start":5175.45,"end":5178.45,"text":"因為你等於是打臉馬總統"},{"start":5178.45,"end":5181.45,"text":"把他重要的人權貢獻全數銷毀"},{"start":5181.45,"end":5183.45,"text":"所以真的拜託我們藍營委員"},{"start":5183.45,"end":5185.45,"text":"不要因為這個軍人的這個"},{"start":5185.45,"end":5186.45,"text":"軍人的這個"},{"start":5186.45,"end":5189.45,"text":"正在釋憲中的法案"},{"start":5189.45,"end":5191.45,"text":"傷害我們韓院長"},{"start":5191.45,"end":5193.45,"text":"讓他覺得很沒有尊嚴"},{"start":5193.45,"end":5194.45,"text":"講過的話"},{"start":5194.45,"end":5196.45,"text":"然後人權處主持下被你們都刪減"},{"start":5196.45,"end":5198.45,"text":"那也不要傷害馬總統"},{"start":5198.45,"end":5201.45,"text":"這麼多的簽署國際公約的一個貢獻"},{"start":5201.45,"end":5202.45,"text":"以上"},{"start":5203.52,"end":5205.52,"text":"因為我被你臉講得一正紅一正白的"},{"start":5206.8,"end":5208.8,"text":"好我們請張秉桑請表來一點"},{"start":5209.38,"end":5210.38,"text":"好謝謝院長"},{"start":5210.38,"end":5211.38,"text":"首先謝謝王安祥委員"},{"start":5211.38,"end":5213.38,"text":"這個改主決議的部分"},{"start":5213.38,"end":5216.38,"text":"那這個我想這個國際漁權"},{"start":5216.38,"end":5217.38,"text":"或者是人權的部分"},{"start":5217.38,"end":5218.38,"text":"當然我們是非常重視的"},{"start":5218.38,"end":5221.38,"text":"第二個我也要跟這個翁委員報告"},{"start":5221.38,"end":5223.38,"text":"剛剛您所提的這些東西"},{"start":5223.38,"end":5225.38,"text":"其實都不是人權處"},{"start":5225.38,"end":5226.38,"text":"它的業務範圍"},{"start":5226.38,"end":5227.38,"text":"這人權處"},{"start":5227.38,"end":5229.38,"text":"今年的最主要的工作是什麼呢"},{"start":5229.38,"end":5230.38,"text":"是這個"},{"start":5231.25,"end":5234.25,"text":"2022到2024的這個國家人權行動計畫"},{"start":5234.25,"end":5235.25,"text":"已經屆滿了"},{"start":5235.25,"end":5237.25,"text":"所以人權處從去年到今年一整年"},{"start":5237.25,"end":5239.25,"text":"都在籌擬籌編"},{"start":5239.25,"end":5241.25,"text":"最新的國家人權行動計畫"},{"start":5241.25,"end":5243.25,"text":"這是非常重要的一個工作"},{"start":5243.25,"end":5244.25,"text":"那第二件"},{"start":5244.25,"end":5247.25,"text":"人權處今年也非常專注"},{"start":5247.25,"end":5249.25,"text":"在處理一件立法院各黨團"},{"start":5249.25,"end":5250.25,"text":"也高度重視的事情"},{"start":5250.25,"end":5253.25,"text":"就是反歧視法的相關的法制作業"},{"start":5253.25,"end":5254.25,"text":"那第三個這個"},{"start":5254.25,"end":5257.25,"text":"成如剛剛范雲委員所講的"},{"start":5257.25,"end":5259.25,"text":"針對台灣與其他國家地區的公約"},{"start":5259.25,"end":5261.25,"text":"或者是人權法案的落實"},{"start":5261.25,"end":5263.25,"text":"這也是人權處相當關注的重點"},{"start":5263.25,"end":5266.25,"text":"以及台灣的國家人權指標"},{"start":5266.25,"end":5268.25,"text":"人權影響評估等等"},{"start":5268.25,"end":5269.25,"text":"那更重要的是"},{"start":5269.25,"end":5270.25,"text":"有一點點跟韓院長"},{"start":5270.25,"end":5272.25,"text":"擔任民主基金委董事長有關的"},{"start":5272.25,"end":5276.25,"text":"是跟國際人權團體來進行對話"},{"start":5276.25,"end":5279.25,"text":"那比方說今年我們就跟韓國"},{"start":5279.25,"end":5282.25,"text":"這個簽訂了相關的合作的MOU等等"},{"start":5282.25,"end":5284.25,"text":"所以我相信韓院長"},{"start":5284.25,"end":5285.25,"text":"如果哪一天接見了"},{"start":5285.25,"end":5287.25,"text":"其他國家的人權團體"},{"start":5287.25,"end":5289.25,"text":"那多半這些團體也會來見"},{"start":5289.25,"end":5290.25,"text":"這個行政院人權處"},{"start":5290.25,"end":5292.25,"text":"那那些團體要跟韓院長說"},{"start":5292.25,"end":5293.25,"text":"要見人權處的時候"},{"start":5293.25,"end":5294.25,"text":"韓院長總不好跟他說不好意思"},{"start":5294.25,"end":5296.25,"text":"預算全部被立法院刪除了"},{"start":5296.25,"end":5297.25,"text":"應該不是這樣狀況"},{"start":5297.25,"end":5299.25,"text":"那最後一點補充喔"},{"start":5299.25,"end":5301.25,"text":"這個謝謝翁曉琳委員喔"},{"start":5301.25,"end":5303.25,"text":"這個在內政委員會的時候"},{"start":5303.25,"end":5307.25,"text":"曾經討論過人權處這個去年的預算"},{"start":5307.25,"end":5308.25,"text":"並沒有被權處簡列"},{"start":5308.25,"end":5311.25,"text":"所以今年當然是依照這個分配數"},{"start":5311.25,"end":5312.25,"text":"依法執行喔"},{"start":5312.25,"end":5314.25,"text":"那5月的時候人權處"},{"start":5314.25,"end":5316.25,"text":"已經去參加了台歐盟人權組織"},{"start":5316.25,"end":5317.25,"text":"人權對話"},{"start":5317.25,"end":5319.25,"text":"那好像這個翁委員"},{"start":5319.25,"end":5322.25,"text":"有原本想要把權處簡列改組決議喔"},{"start":5322.25,"end":5325.25,"text":"如果翁委員願意這個改組決議的話"},{"start":5325.25,"end":5326.25,"text":"行政院非常感謝"},{"start":5326.25,"end":5328.25,"text":"那既然這筆錢沒有刪掉的話"},{"start":5328.25,"end":5330.25,"text":"那人權及轉型正義處"},{"start":5330.25,"end":5332.25,"text":"也就不需要權處簡列"},{"start":5332.25,"end":5334.25,"text":"是否能夠再進行第二輪協商"},{"start":5334.25,"end":5335.25,"text":"大家來尋找一個共識喔"},{"start":5335.25,"end":5336.25,"text":"以上補充"},{"start":5336.25,"end":5337.25,"text":"不可能謝謝"},{"start":5338.66,"end":5340.66,"text":"那個我們第十幕喔"},{"start":5340.66,"end":5343.66,"text":"人權轉型正義第86案"},{"start":5343.66,"end":5346.66,"text":"黃仁委員所提改組決議"},{"start":5346.66,"end":5347.66,"text":"92案"},{"start":5347.66,"end":5349.66,"text":"張宏祿委員所提改組決議"},{"start":5349.66,"end":5350.66,"text":"87、88、89"},{"start":5350.66,"end":5354.66,"text":"更正87、88、89改組決議"},{"start":5354.66,"end":5356.66,"text":"93案改組決議"},{"start":5356.66,"end":5358.66,"text":"王美慧委員所提"},{"start":5358.66,"end":5359.66,"text":"94案"},{"start":5359.66,"end":5361.66,"text":"廖先祥委員"},{"start":5361.66,"end":5364.66,"text":"翁曉琳委員所提改組決議"},{"start":5364.66,"end":5365.66,"text":"95案"},{"start":5365.66,"end":5367.66,"text":"林沛祥委員所提"},{"start":5367.66,"end":5369.66,"text":"進通案辦理"},{"start":5369.66,"end":5370.66,"text":"其餘保留"},{"start":5370.66,"end":5371.66,"text":"我們進入第十一幕"},{"start":5371.66,"end":5374.66,"text":"各支保護委員會籌備業務"},{"start":5374.66,"end":5379.66,"text":"台灣民眾黨團提全數凍結"},{"start":5379.66,"end":5382.66,"text":"徐宇峥委員提改組決議"},{"start":5382.66,"end":5385.66,"text":"侯玉祥委員提凍結100萬"},{"start":5386.8,"end":5390.8,"text":"廖先祥、翁曉琳委員並通案辦理"},{"start":5391.19,"end":5394.19,"text":"第100案也是並通案辦理"},{"start":5394.19,"end":5401.19,"text":"現在我們請台灣民眾黨團全數凍結1億5,327萬元"},{"start":5401.19,"end":5402.19,"text":"請表達意見"},{"start":5403.44,"end":5407.44,"text":"好,我們96跟這個98"},{"start":5407.44,"end":5409.44,"text":"我們就是並動"},{"start":5410.93,"end":5412.93,"text":"主要的一個理由是在於說"},{"start":5412.93,"end":5414.93,"text":"我們的數位身分證"},{"start":5414.93,"end":5416.93,"text":"從110年開始"},{"start":5416.93,"end":5418.93,"text":"它就已經是宣告暫緩"},{"start":5418.93,"end":5421.93,"text":"除了之前花了10億之後"},{"start":5421.93,"end":5427.93,"text":"政府還要耗費2.8億去做調解金的支付"},{"start":5427.93,"end":5430.93,"text":"內政部115年度的預算的話"},{"start":5430.93,"end":5433.93,"text":"它還編列高達4875萬"},{"start":5433.93,"end":5437.93,"text":"用在中央議長設置鹹貝的一個維護"},{"start":5437.93,"end":5439.93,"text":"這個時候政策停擺了一五年"},{"start":5439.93,"end":5442.93,"text":"那也根據我們憲法法庭111年的判例"},{"start":5442.93,"end":5446.93,"text":"它說這個是在於缺乏個資的法制未完備"},{"start":5446.93,"end":5449.93,"text":"所以我們也希望是說趕快盡力成立"},{"start":5449.93,"end":5451.93,"text":"這一個個人資料保護委員會"},{"start":5451.93,"end":5453.93,"text":"但是內政部一直拖延"},{"start":5453.93,"end":5454.93,"text":"沒有辦法排案"},{"start":5454.93,"end":5458.93,"text":"說我們的個人資料保護的委員會組織法的草案"},{"start":5458.93,"end":5460.93,"text":"還是沒有辦法三讀通過"},{"start":5460.93,"end":5462.93,"text":"所以就一直懸枝在這邊"},{"start":5462.93,"end":5464.93,"text":"另外的話也就是說"},{"start":5464.93,"end":5465.93,"text":"既然是個資"},{"start":5465.93,"end":5467.93,"text":"那我們立法委員的所資"},{"start":5467.93,"end":5469.93,"text":"以我自己的為例"},{"start":5469.93,"end":5471.93,"text":"5月28號29號"},{"start":5471.93,"end":5474.93,"text":"我提的這樣子的一個無人機的載具所資"},{"start":5474.93,"end":5476.93,"text":"然後根據公共工程委員會"},{"start":5476.93,"end":5479.93,"text":"的這樣子的一個採購指引去所資的內容"},{"start":5481.6,"end":5482.6,"text":"不給我就算了"},{"start":5482.6,"end":5483.6,"text":"到現在還沒給喔"},{"start":5484.73,"end":5486.73,"text":"還放給自由時報"},{"start":5487.27,"end":5489.27,"text":"那這個東西放了就算了"},{"start":5489.27,"end":5490.27,"text":"不管做什麼用途"},{"start":5490.27,"end":5492.27,"text":"你還把同仁的個資"},{"start":5492.27,"end":5495.27,"text":"全部都完全攤在報紙底下"},{"start":5496.29,"end":5498.29,"text":"日不如嚴正違反個資"},{"start":5498.29,"end":5500.29,"text":"到現在也沒有跟我說明"},{"start":5500.67,"end":5501.67,"text":"我非常生氣啊"},{"start":5502.11,"end":5504.11,"text":"所以我是覺得病動"},{"start":5504.11,"end":5507.11,"text":"那就是以我們的這一個96案全數動"},{"start":5507.11,"end":5509.11,"text":"這個凍結的經費為主"},{"start":5510.01,"end":5511.01,"text":"您不是說"},{"start":5511.01,"end":5514.01,"text":"96案跟98案凍結100萬嗎"},{"start":5514.01,"end":5515.01,"text":"不是"},{"start":5515.01,"end":5517.01,"text":"凍96案的這一個"},{"start":5520.01,"end":5522.01,"text":"98變696"},{"start":5522.01,"end":5524.01,"text":"還是堅持全數"},{"start":5524.01,"end":5526.01,"text":"好的好的"},{"start":5526.01,"end":5528.01,"text":"麻煩請張秉立總表達一下"},{"start":5528.55,"end":5530.55,"text":"好謝謝第一個要拜託韓院長"},{"start":5530.55,"end":5532.55,"text":"跟朝野各黨團"},{"start":5532.55,"end":5535.55,"text":"各支會依照憲法的法庭的判決"},{"start":5535.55,"end":5537.55,"text":"應該要在2025年8月成立"},{"start":5537.55,"end":5539.55,"text":"那行政院是在2025年3月將"},{"start":5539.55,"end":5542.55,"text":"各支會這個組織法送到立法院"},{"start":5542.55,"end":5545.55,"text":"那經過了這個委員會的審查"},{"start":5545.55,"end":5548.55,"text":"去年的6月24號曾經召開過"},{"start":5548.55,"end":5549.55,"text":"這個黨團的協商"},{"start":5549.55,"end":5550.55,"text":"到目前為止沒有進度"},{"start":5550.55,"end":5552.55,"text":"所以可能拜託院長"},{"start":5552.55,"end":5555.55,"text":"跟朝野黨團能夠加速來進行"},{"start":5555.55,"end":5557.55,"text":"那第二個補充"},{"start":5557.55,"end":5558.55,"text":"依照預算法"},{"start":5558.55,"end":5560.55,"text":"去年各支會"},{"start":5560.55,"end":5563.55,"text":"今年各支會可以執行的法定預算數是1.53億"},{"start":5563.55,"end":5565.55,"text":"那一樣現在已經7月了"},{"start":5565.55,"end":5569.55,"text":"年過了一半執行也超過了7700萬"},{"start":5569.55,"end":5570.55,"text":"如果現在"},{"start":5570.55,"end":5572.55,"text":"所以現在如果全數凍結的話"},{"start":5572.55,"end":5574.55,"text":"那已經付出去了7700多萬"},{"start":5574.55,"end":5575.55,"text":"應該怎麼辦"},{"start":5575.55,"end":5580.55,"text":"所以是否能夠請這個民眾黨團能夠思考也幫忙"},{"start":5580.55,"end":5583.55,"text":"是否96案跟98案"},{"start":5583.55,"end":5585.55,"text":"不要合併凍結"},{"start":5585.55,"end":5587.55,"text":"就是不要動全部"},{"start":5587.55,"end":5589.55,"text":"不要動全部"},{"start":5589.55,"end":5591.55,"text":"這樣子不然付出的7700多萬"},{"start":5591.55,"end":5593.55,"text":"不知道該如何處理"},{"start":5593.55,"end":5594.55,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":5594.55,"end":5595.55,"text":"謝謝張院長"},{"start":5595.55,"end":5596.55,"text":"那個陳慶龍總長"},{"start":5596.55,"end":5598.55,"text":"張院長的意思是說現在7月份"},{"start":5598.55,"end":5601.55,"text":"他們已經執行了金額大概60%左右"},{"start":5601.55,"end":5604.55,"text":"有沒有辦法改為凍結的數字縮小"},{"start":5604.55,"end":5605.55,"text":"請表達意見"},{"start":5606.33,"end":5607.33,"text":"在這個部分"},{"start":5607.33,"end":5610.33,"text":"我想我們剛剛洪議長也有提案"},{"start":5610.33,"end":5612.33,"text":"包括在所知的部分"},{"start":5612.33,"end":5615.33,"text":"還有這個數位身分證這個問題"},{"start":5615.33,"end":5617.33,"text":"我們也了解"},{"start":5617.33,"end":5619.33,"text":"那一直沒辦法解決"},{"start":5619.33,"end":5621.33,"text":"那除了賠償金之外"},{"start":5621.33,"end":5622.33,"text":"調節金"},{"start":5622.33,"end":5624.33,"text":"還有每年編列預算"},{"start":5624.33,"end":5628.33,"text":"來做這樣的一個維護金償"},{"start":5628.33,"end":5629.33,"text":"那凍結"},{"start":5630.21,"end":5631.21,"text":"沒有三件"},{"start":5631.81,"end":5633.81,"text":"凍結沒有三件"},{"start":5634.17,"end":5635.17,"text":"凍結"},{"start":5635.29,"end":5636.29,"text":"還是在運作當中"},{"start":5636.29,"end":5638.29,"text":"只要行政院"},{"start":5638.29,"end":5639.29,"text":"在三五月內"},{"start":5639.29,"end":5641.29,"text":"只要趕快提出"},{"start":5641.55,"end":5642.55,"text":"報告"},{"start":5642.61,"end":5643.61,"text":"那就解凍了"},{"start":5644.33,"end":5647.33,"text":"我們並沒有把預算做任何的三件"},{"start":5649.43,"end":5651.43,"text":"好 我們現在進行宣告"},{"start":5651.43,"end":5653.43,"text":"96案全書凍結"},{"start":5653.43,"end":5656.43,"text":"保留97案改組決議"},{"start":5658.22,"end":5661.22,"text":"97案改組98案凍結100萬"},{"start":5661.22,"end":5663.22,"text":"99案並通案辦理"},{"start":5666.1,"end":5667.1,"text":"沒有"},{"start":5669.58,"end":5671.58,"text":"凍結100保留"},{"start":5671.58,"end":5675.58,"text":"99案並通案辦理"},{"start":5675.58,"end":5677.58,"text":"100案並通案辦理"},{"start":5678.76,"end":5680.76,"text":"好 其餘"},{"start":5681.24,"end":5683.24,"text":"我們進入第12幕"},{"start":5683.24,"end":5686.24,"text":"一般建築及設備"},{"start":5687.73,"end":5690.73,"text":"國民黨團陳金威委員所提"},{"start":5690.73,"end":5691.73,"text":"凍結15%"},{"start":5691.73,"end":5693.73,"text":"我們並通案辦理"},{"start":5693.73,"end":5695.73,"text":"第102案主決議"},{"start":5695.73,"end":5697.73,"text":"賴思保委員所提"},{"start":5697.73,"end":5698.73,"text":"文字修正"},{"start":5700.69,"end":5702.69,"text":"好 謝謝行政院張秘書長"},{"start":5702.69,"end":5703.69,"text":"各位辛苦"},{"start":5703.69,"end":5706.69,"text":"謝謝 我們進入原住民委員會"},{"start":5707.14,"end":5708.14,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5727.81,"end":5729.81,"text":"好 謝謝原住民委員會"},{"start":5729.81,"end":5733.81,"text":"我們來介紹一下練習的原住民委員會"},{"start":5736.57,"end":5738.57,"text":"政務副主任委員谷忠"},{"start":5739.98,"end":5740.98,"text":"課拉法院 請"},{"start":5740.98,"end":5741.98,"text":"副主任請坐"},{"start":5747.13,"end":5749.13,"text":"好 各位黨團幹部 謝謝各位"},{"start":5749.85,"end":5754.85,"text":"我們原住民副主委相關的練習官員請坐"},{"start":5754.85,"end":5755.85,"text":"我們進入"},{"start":5758.78,"end":5762.78,"text":"103號二款八幕"},{"start":5762.78,"end":5765.78,"text":"原住民委員會原列數128億"},{"start":5765.78,"end":5768.78,"text":"5923萬2000元"},{"start":5768.78,"end":5772.78,"text":"國民黨高金數媒委員所提該主決議"},{"start":5772.78,"end":5773.78,"text":"我們進入第一幕"},{"start":5773.78,"end":5775.78,"text":"一般行政"},{"start":5775.78,"end":5777.78,"text":"104案"},{"start":5777.78,"end":5780.78,"text":"國民黨團政天才凍結100萬"},{"start":5780.78,"end":5782.78,"text":"並委員會決議辦理"},{"start":5782.78,"end":5783.78,"text":"文字修正"},{"start":5785.32,"end":5786.32,"text":"105案"},{"start":5786.32,"end":5788.32,"text":"政天才委員所提凍結100萬"},{"start":5788.32,"end":5791.32,"text":"並委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":5791.32,"end":5793.32,"text":"我們進入第二幕"},{"start":5793.32,"end":5795.32,"text":"綜合規劃發展"},{"start":5795.32,"end":5798.32,"text":"第106案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5798.32,"end":5801.32,"text":"107案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5801.32,"end":5804.32,"text":"108案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5804.32,"end":5809.32,"text":"109案 林茜琪委員所提改主決議"},{"start":5809.32,"end":5812.32,"text":"110案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5813.79,"end":5816.79,"text":"111案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5816.79,"end":5820.79,"text":"112案 黃仁委員所提凍結300萬策案"},{"start":5821.74,"end":5824.74,"text":"113案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5825.85,"end":5828.85,"text":"114案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5828.85,"end":5831.85,"text":"115案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5831.85,"end":5835.85,"text":"116案 林茜琪委員所提改主決議"},{"start":5835.85,"end":5838.85,"text":"117案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5838.85,"end":5841.85,"text":"118案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5841.85,"end":5844.85,"text":"119案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5844.82,"end":5847.82,"text":"黃仁委員來了沒有啊?沒有到"},{"start":5848.38,"end":5851.38,"text":"120案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5851.38,"end":5855.38,"text":"121案 林茜琪委員所提改主決議"},{"start":5855.38,"end":5859.38,"text":"122案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5859.71,"end":5862.71,"text":"123案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5862.71,"end":5865.71,"text":"124案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5865.71,"end":5868.71,"text":"125案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5868.71,"end":5873.71,"text":"126案 王安祥委員所提策案"},{"start":5875.11,"end":5881.11,"text":"126案 改主決議"},{"start":5881.36,"end":5883.36,"text":"你也要補充嗎?"},{"start":5883.36,"end":5885.36,"text":"這個部分就是因為"},{"start":5885.36,"end":5887.36,"text":"我想很多原住民朋友"},{"start":5887.36,"end":5889.36,"text":"其實他在工作的時候"},{"start":5889.36,"end":5891.36,"text":"其實我們常常看到非常讓人痛心的"},{"start":5891.36,"end":5893.36,"text":"職業災害的部分"},{"start":5893.36,"end":5895.36,"text":"所以我是那天希望他們"},{"start":5895.36,"end":5897.36,"text":"在出行就業之餘也要提升"},{"start":5897.36,"end":5901.36,"text":"他們原民職業災害防治的一些相關的事情"},{"start":5901.36,"end":5903.36,"text":"因為我們現在有一個職災保險"},{"start":5903.36,"end":5905.36,"text":"所以可以利用資源來做處理"},{"start":5905.36,"end":5907.36,"text":"那天處長有來跟我做一些說明"},{"start":5907.36,"end":5909.36,"text":"所以我改主決議 以上"},{"start":5909.36,"end":5911.36,"text":"謝謝王安祥委員改主決議"},{"start":5911.36,"end":5915.36,"text":"127案 徐興英委員所提主決議"},{"start":5915.36,"end":5917.36,"text":"128案 徐興英委員所提主決議"},{"start":5917.36,"end":5920.36,"text":"129案 高金樹梅委員所提主決議"},{"start":5920.36,"end":5923.36,"text":"130案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5923.36,"end":5926.36,"text":"131案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5928.15,"end":5930.15,"text":"我們進入第九期"},{"start":5929.99,"end":5930.99,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5941.18,"end":5945.18,"text":"那個原住民會請表達127到129沒意見"},{"start":5948.02,"end":5950.02,"text":"我們照案通過"},{"start":5950.02,"end":5956.02,"text":"我們進入稅書第九項原住民族文化發展中心第二幕"},{"start":5956.02,"end":5960.02,"text":"我們進入132案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5960.02,"end":5962.02,"text":"132案 黃仁委員所提策案"},{"start":5964.26,"end":5967.26,"text":"謝謝我們進入客家事務委員會"},{"start":5967.26,"end":5969.26,"text":"謝謝原住民委員會練習 謝謝"},{"start":5989.27,"end":5994.27,"text":"謝謝客家事務委員會古主委 謝謝您"},{"start":5997.14,"end":5999.14,"text":"我們客家事務委員會進入"},{"start":6000.75,"end":6004.75,"text":"第十項客家委員會所屬第134案"},{"start":6005.51,"end":6011.51,"text":"翁曉琳委員所提簡列8227萬7千元並通案辦理"},{"start":6011.51,"end":6016.51,"text":"馬文君委員135案所提簡列100萬策案"},{"start":6016.51,"end":6021.51,"text":"我們136案馬文君委員所提改主決議"},{"start":6021.51,"end":6024.51,"text":"137案徐興瑩委員所提主決議"},{"start":6024.51,"end":6026.51,"text":"138案徐興瑩主決議"},{"start":6026.51,"end":6028.51,"text":"139徐興瑩主決議"},{"start":6028.51,"end":6030.51,"text":"140徐興瑩主決議"},{"start":6030.51,"end":6032.51,"text":"141徐興瑩委員所提主決議"},{"start":6032.51,"end":6035.51,"text":"142林思明委員所提主決議"},{"start":6035.51,"end":6039.51,"text":"143林思明所提主決議"},{"start":6039.51,"end":6042.51,"text":"144台灣民眾黨團主決議"},{"start":6042.51,"end":6045.51,"text":"請行政部門客委會表達意見"},{"start":6046.82,"end":6047.82,"text":"沒有意見"},{"start":6048.17,"end":6050.17,"text":"謝謝我們"},{"start":6050.17,"end":6052.17,"text":"第一案是通三案處理"},{"start":6052.17,"end":6054.17,"text":"謝謝客委會"},{"start":6054.17,"end":6056.17,"text":"我們進入中央選舉委員會"},{"start":6056.17,"end":6058.17,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6069.07,"end":6071.07,"text":"中央選舉委員會"},{"start":6073.75,"end":6075.75,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":6075.75,"end":6077.75,"text":"好 由主委來請坐"},{"start":6077.75,"end":6079.75,"text":"中選會所有的官員請坐"},{"start":6080.72,"end":6084.72,"text":"各位黨團幹部我們進入中央選舉委員會第四"},{"start":6086.03,"end":6092.03,"text":"145案黃仁委員所提凍結50萬病委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":6093.49,"end":6099.49,"text":"146案黃仁委員所提凍結10萬病委員會決議辦理文字修正"},{"start":6099.49,"end":6104.49,"text":"147案主決議賴世保委員所提請"},{"start":6105.25,"end":6106.25,"text":"由主委表達意見"},{"start":6106.25,"end":6108.25,"text":"147案主決議"},{"start":6109.91,"end":6111.91,"text":"我們將進一步演繹"},{"start":6119.59,"end":6120.59,"text":"好 遵照辦理"},{"start":6120.59,"end":6122.59,"text":"好 謝謝由主委"},{"start":6123.48,"end":6125.48,"text":"照案通過"},{"start":6125.48,"end":6127.48,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6127.68,"end":6129.68,"text":"可以了嗎"},{"start":6132,"end":6134,"text":"接下來請入委會"},{"start":6134.35,"end":6136.35,"text":"邱主委"},{"start":6136.25,"end":6138.25,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6140.86,"end":6142.86,"text":"呃"},{"start":6160.22,"end":6164.22,"text":"好 謝謝我們入委會練習的邱主委請坐"},{"start":6166.7,"end":6168.7,"text":"邱主委呢"},{"start":6169.77,"end":6170.77,"text":"好 邱主委謝謝"},{"start":6170.77,"end":6172.77,"text":"入委會所有的練習官員請坐"},{"start":6175.07,"end":6178.07,"text":"好 各位同仁黨團幹部同仁來打起精神我們繼續"},{"start":6178.07,"end":6186.07,"text":"第15項大陸委員會148案廖先祥 翁曉蓮委員所提並通案辦理"},{"start":6186.07,"end":6190.07,"text":"149案台灣民眾黨團所提並通案辦理"},{"start":6207.38,"end":6210.38,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":6210.59,"end":6212.59,"text":"我們進入150案"},{"start":6212.59,"end":6216.59,"text":"王鴻威委員所提並通案辦理"},{"start":6216.59,"end":6221.59,"text":"151案張志倫委員所提並通案辦理"},{"start":6221.59,"end":6225.59,"text":"152案國民黨所提全數簡略"},{"start":6225.59,"end":6227.59,"text":"請國民黨團請發言"},{"start":6230.64,"end":6232.64,"text":"陳日委你要發言現在可以發言"},{"start":6232.64,"end":6233.64,"text":"國民黨團"},{"start":6233.64,"end":6236.64,"text":"好 那個我是提152案的部分"},{"start":6236.64,"end":6240.64,"text":"這個部分因為涉及這個入委會的這個業務"},{"start":6240.64,"end":6242.64,"text":"我想是相當比較熟悉的"},{"start":6242.64,"end":6244.64,"text":"那小三通業務上也執行很多"},{"start":6244.64,"end":6247.64,"text":"所以我是提議這個部分是不是就簡略兩成"},{"start":6249.97,"end":6251.97,"text":"全數簡略改為簡略28"},{"start":6251.97,"end":6252.97,"text":"其實是一樣的意思"},{"start":6252.97,"end":6254.97,"text":"因為我們原來指的意思也是說前面的"},{"start":6254.97,"end":6256.97,"text":"已經執行的排除嘛"},{"start":6256.97,"end":6257.97,"text":"然後後面9到12月"},{"start":6257.97,"end":6259.97,"text":"那算了一下 事實上一樣的答案是一樣的"},{"start":6259.97,"end":6261.97,"text":"等一下 這個要請邱主委回答"},{"start":6261.97,"end":6265.97,"text":"我們接下來台灣民眾黨團跟民進黨團要不要表達意見"},{"start":6265.97,"end":6268.97,"text":"因為這是改為簡略兩成"},{"start":6269.65,"end":6270.65,"text":"還是直接聽入委會的"},{"start":6271.69,"end":6274.69,"text":"好 那台灣民眾黨我們就不表達意見"},{"start":6274.69,"end":6275.69,"text":"請入委會表達意見好嗎"},{"start":6275.69,"end":6279.69,"text":"好 請邱主委簡略20%請表達意見"},{"start":6279.69,"end":6282.69,"text":"謝謝韓院長 各位黨團的委員"},{"start":6282.69,"end":6284.69,"text":"感謝大家指教"},{"start":6284.69,"end":6288.69,"text":"針對這一項我們的業務費"},{"start":6288.69,"end":6292.69,"text":"其實如果說按照簡略兩成"},{"start":6292.69,"end":6298.69,"text":"應該是指9月份到12月份還未執行的部分"},{"start":6298.69,"end":6302.69,"text":"那畢竟有關於我們現在已經動資了"},{"start":6302.69,"end":6308.69,"text":"從1月份到目前已經有動資了2億1000萬"},{"start":6308.69,"end":6316.69,"text":"所以如果說只是未來簡略9月份到12月份的業務費"},{"start":6316.69,"end":6317.69,"text":"簡略兩成"},{"start":6317.69,"end":6320.69,"text":"我想我們應該是可以負荷"},{"start":6320.69,"end":6323.69,"text":"我們尊重委員的提案 謝謝"},{"start":6323.69,"end":6326.69,"text":"好的 入委會邱主委已經表達意見"},{"start":6326.69,"end":6330.69,"text":"我們第152案簡略20%"},{"start":6330.69,"end":6331.69,"text":"國民黨團要保留"},{"start":6331.69,"end":6332.69,"text":"你怎麼意見不一樣"},{"start":6334.59,"end":6336.59,"text":"保留 保留用後處理"},{"start":6336.59,"end":6339.59,"text":"邱主委已經同意解零20%了"},{"start":6339.59,"end":6342.59,"text":"就是前來的意思是這樣子"},{"start":6342.59,"end":6343.59,"text":"全部解嗎"},{"start":6344.31,"end":6345.31,"text":"好吧"},{"start":6345.32,"end":6348.32,"text":"對啊 陳醫生委員解零20% 邱主委同意"},{"start":6348.32,"end":6350.32,"text":"解零20%你現在怎麼還保留"},{"start":6350.32,"end":6352.32,"text":"原來我們討論一下"},{"start":6354.36,"end":6357.36,"text":"那個跟各位報告 因為這是黨團的提案"},{"start":6357.36,"end":6360.36,"text":"不是陳醫生委員的提案"},{"start":6360.36,"end":6362.36,"text":"醫生委員我們待會一定尊重參考"},{"start":6362.36,"end":6366.36,"text":"那次會議再溝通一次的好嗎"},{"start":6366.36,"end":6368.36,"text":"林署長請表達意見"},{"start":6368.36,"end":6370.36,"text":"保留 保留自願會處理"},{"start":6370.36,"end":6372.36,"text":"我們152案保留"},{"start":6372.36,"end":6375.36,"text":"很抱歉 邱主委很抱歉 黨團表達意見"},{"start":6375.36,"end":6377.36,"text":"來 我們請莊瑞雄幹事長"},{"start":6377.36,"end":6378.36,"text":"再溝通"},{"start":6378.36,"end":6381.36,"text":"各位協商代表"},{"start":6382.36,"end":6386.36,"text":"其實1502案裡面"},{"start":6386.36,"end":6388.36,"text":"原來你的提案 你看去年"},{"start":6388.36,"end":6390.36,"text":"去年減了一塊"},{"start":6390.36,"end":6393.36,"text":"後來也是 因為彼此大家都很生氣"},{"start":6393.36,"end":6396.36,"text":"後來協商完以後"},{"start":6396.36,"end":6398.36,"text":"到最後簡略了"},{"start":6398.36,"end":6400.36,"text":"就去把它做一個回覆"},{"start":6400.36,"end":6402.36,"text":"把這個預算把它救起來"},{"start":6402.36,"end":6405.36,"text":"港澳聯繫這個服務的推動跟執行這個部分"},{"start":6405.36,"end":6407.36,"text":"其實真的有必要"},{"start":6407.36,"end":6410.36,"text":"而且其實也都花了那麼多錢"},{"start":6410.36,"end":6413.36,"text":"剛剛陳議員 陳醫生委員講兩層的部分"},{"start":6413.36,"end":6414.36,"text":"我是覺得"},{"start":6414.36,"end":6416.36,"text":"我本來跟他說看得到嗎"},{"start":6416.36,"end":6418.36,"text":"你去肯認 肯認的整個"},{"start":6418.36,"end":6421.36,"text":"整個陸委會對於港澳聯繫服務的推動跟執行"},{"start":6421.36,"end":6422.36,"text":"它的一個必要性"},{"start":6422.36,"end":6425.36,"text":"這個聲音是怕說中斷"},{"start":6425.36,"end":6427.36,"text":"是說兩聲之後 我不怎麼跟他說好"},{"start":6427.36,"end":6429.36,"text":"陸委會主委也跟他說尊重"},{"start":6429.36,"end":6431.36,"text":"看國民黨這個地方"},{"start":6431.36,"end":6435.36,"text":"這個 林配上林委員這裡給他們做"},{"start":6435.36,"end":6437.36,"text":"個別的首長可能有一些話"},{"start":6437.36,"end":6439.36,"text":"你覺得聽得不舒服"},{"start":6439.36,"end":6441.36,"text":"不舒服是計要費去處理"},{"start":6441.36,"end":6444.36,"text":"賣業務一費來把它做一個簡略的話"},{"start":6444.36,"end":6448.36,"text":"真的會影響到我們機關對民眾的一個服務"},{"start":6448.36,"end":6450.36,"text":"說一句實在的"},{"start":6450.36,"end":6452.36,"text":"這個都涉及到一般民眾"},{"start":6452.36,"end":6455.36,"text":"你就問 我要去香港我就沒辦法去"},{"start":6456.61,"end":6458.61,"text":"你去香港我們都去不成"},{"start":6458.61,"end":6461.61,"text":"所以這個部分是涉及到"},{"start":6461.61,"end":6464.61,"text":"沒有涉及到民進黨的官員"},{"start":6464.61,"end":6467.61,"text":"甚至沒有涉及到民進黨的公職"},{"start":6467.61,"end":6469.61,"text":"我們也是在這裡提民眾"},{"start":6469.61,"end":6472.61,"text":"這條政府要服務民眾的費用"},{"start":6472.61,"end":6474.61,"text":"減兩聲就已經大家很忍痛了"},{"start":6474.61,"end":6476.61,"text":"你們有辦法保留"},{"start":6476.61,"end":6478.61,"text":"是不是可以再考慮一下 好不好"},{"start":6478.66,"end":6480.66,"text":"這個 我覺得"},{"start":6480.66,"end":6482.66,"text":"陳政委你要去按住打擊"},{"start":6482.66,"end":6484.66,"text":"我覺得現在是這樣子喔"},{"start":6484.66,"end":6486.66,"text":"兩岸關係是要往好的方向發展"},{"start":6486.66,"end":6488.66,"text":"那我們現在有一些"},{"start":6488.33,"end":6490.33,"text":"這個"},{"start":6489.53,"end":6491.53,"text":"不只民啦 有一些副主委們"},{"start":6491.53,"end":6493.53,"text":"就好像是戰狼似的"},{"start":6493.53,"end":6495.53,"text":"好像不想兩岸關係往好的發展"},{"start":6495.53,"end":6497.53,"text":"所以我想這個部分"},{"start":6497.53,"end":6499.53,"text":"雖然我提出這個意見"},{"start":6499.53,"end":6501.53,"text":"但我還是希望陸委會繼續跟黨團做溝通"},{"start":6501.53,"end":6503.53,"text":"這很多委員提出來都是很正向的"},{"start":6503.53,"end":6505.53,"text":"希望保障老百姓的權益"},{"start":6505.53,"end":6507.53,"text":"比如說軍公教啊 到來"},{"start":6507.53,"end":6509.53,"text":"或農民啊各方面的權益"},{"start":6509.53,"end":6511.53,"text":"我想你們會繼續再溝通 謝謝"},{"start":6512.75,"end":6514.75,"text":"我知道 因為黨團剛才指定陳宇人委員發言"},{"start":6514.75,"end":6516.75,"text":"所以我就以為是以陳宇人委員的意見為主"},{"start":6516.75,"end":6518.75,"text":"很抱歉喔 沒問題"},{"start":6518.75,"end":6520.75,"text":"一場誤會"},{"start":6564.36,"end":6566.36,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6567.34,"end":6569.34,"text":"好 簡略200萬"},{"start":6571.39,"end":6573.39,"text":"邱主委這個有沒有意見"},{"start":6573.39,"end":6575.39,"text":"第161案"},{"start":6575.39,"end":6577.39,"text":"我們有跟委員拜託"},{"start":6577.39,"end":6579.39,"text":"他也同意"},{"start":6579.39,"end":6581.39,"text":"我們科目自行調整"},{"start":6581.39,"end":6583.39,"text":"這樣比較好"},{"start":6583.95,"end":6585.95,"text":"我們就簡略200萬"},{"start":6585.95,"end":6587.95,"text":"科目自行調整"},{"start":6587.95,"end":6589.95,"text":"好的 我們160案就過"},{"start":6589.95,"end":6591.95,"text":"簡略200萬"},{"start":6591.95,"end":6593.95,"text":"我們現在進入第二幕中和規劃處"},{"start":6595.88,"end":6599.88,"text":"162 王宏威所提該主決議"},{"start":6599.88,"end":6605.88,"text":"163案 張志倫委員所提凍結500萬元"},{"start":6608.58,"end":6610.58,"text":"是的"},{"start":6610.61,"end":6612.61,"text":"張志倫委員不在 國民黨團要不要表達意見"},{"start":6612.61,"end":6614.61,"text":"還是直接聽陸委會先表達意見"},{"start":6616.01,"end":6618.01,"text":"請陸委會"},{"start":6618.01,"end":6620.01,"text":"邱主委請表達意見"},{"start":6620.01,"end":6622.01,"text":"非常感謝 我們中和規劃處"},{"start":6622.01,"end":6624.01,"text":"其實是陸委會的大腦"},{"start":6624.01,"end":6626.01,"text":"也是心臟"},{"start":6626.01,"end":6628.01,"text":"他在延續中國大陸的情勢"},{"start":6628.01,"end":6630.01,"text":"篡理各種的政策的報告"},{"start":6630.01,"end":6632.01,"text":"工作非常吃重"},{"start":6632.01,"end":6634.01,"text":"那如果呢"},{"start":6634.01,"end":6636.01,"text":"凍結那麼多的錢"},{"start":6636.01,"end":6638.01,"text":"在我們未來短短的幾個月"},{"start":6638.01,"end":6642.01,"text":"我們擔心會在這個預算的制印上面"},{"start":6642.01,"end":6644.01,"text":"比較多的"},{"start":6644.01,"end":6646.01,"text":"預算的制印上面比較不足"},{"start":6646.01,"end":6648.01,"text":"看能不能我們改成主決議"},{"start":6649.79,"end":6651.79,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6658.97,"end":6660.97,"text":"保留送院會處理"},{"start":6688.97,"end":6690.97,"text":"通案辦理"},{"start":6690.97,"end":6692.97,"text":"169案 黃仁偉所提改主決議"},{"start":6692.97,"end":6694.97,"text":"請陸委會表達一下改主決議"},{"start":6694.97,"end":6696.97,"text":"165 166 167跟169"},{"start":6700.4,"end":6702.4,"text":"有沒有意見"},{"start":6702.4,"end":6704.4,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":6704.4,"end":6706.4,"text":"我們繼續第三幕經濟業務"},{"start":6706.4,"end":6708.4,"text":"172 羅志強委員所提"},{"start":6708.4,"end":6710.4,"text":"簡略1500萬"},{"start":6710.4,"end":6712.4,"text":"羅志強委員您在現場"},{"start":6712.4,"end":6714.4,"text":"有意見請表達意見"},{"start":6717.18,"end":6721.18,"text":"主席還有我們委員跟我們陸委會的官員"},{"start":6721.18,"end":6727.18,"text":"那本人因為曾經在這個中央政府在總統府工作過"},{"start":6727.18,"end":6733.18,"text":"現在知道陸委會其實扮演的角色是如何的重要"},{"start":6733.18,"end":6735.18,"text":"其實當所有的部會"},{"start":6735.18,"end":6739.18,"text":"都遵奉這個賴清德總統"},{"start":6739.18,"end":6741.18,"text":"抗總保台的政策"},{"start":6741.18,"end":6745.18,"text":"來去進行他相關政策的討論"},{"start":6745.18,"end":6747.18,"text":"我認為這次的行動是非常有意義"},{"start":6747.18,"end":6749.18,"text":"唯獨陸委會是最不應該的"},{"start":6749.18,"end":6751.18,"text":"因為陸委會本身的存在"},{"start":6751.18,"end":6753.18,"text":"其實就是要盡量的來去"},{"start":6753.18,"end":6755.18,"text":"變成是兩岸之間的橋樑"},{"start":6755.18,"end":6757.18,"text":"做好服務工作"},{"start":6757.18,"end":6759.18,"text":"但是很遺憾啦"},{"start":6759.18,"end":6761.18,"text":"很遺憾就是"},{"start":6761.18,"end":6763.18,"text":"從陸委會"},{"start":6763.18,"end":6765.18,"text":"包括我們的梁文傑副主委"},{"start":6765.18,"end":6767.18,"text":"還有包括剛剛又在外面嗆聲的"},{"start":6767.18,"end":6769.18,"text":"陸委會的官員"},{"start":6769.18,"end":6771.18,"text":"沈友宗"},{"start":6771.18,"end":6773.18,"text":"沈友宗"},{"start":6773.54,"end":6775.54,"text":"我完全沒有看到說陸委會今天"},{"start":6776.96,"end":6778.96,"text":"啊"},{"start":6777.96,"end":6779.96,"text":"今天有任何的"},{"start":6779.96,"end":6781.96,"text":"想要在兩岸關係上"},{"start":6781.96,"end":6783.96,"text":"著墨的一個力量"},{"start":6783.96,"end":6785.96,"text":"但是我也尊重"},{"start":6785.96,"end":6787.96,"text":"賴清德總統抗總保台的政策"},{"start":6787.96,"end":6789.96,"text":"我想陸委會也是相當的無奈"},{"start":6789.96,"end":6791.96,"text":"那既然如此的話"},{"start":6791.96,"end":6793.96,"text":"我覺得相關的業務規模"},{"start":6793.96,"end":6795.96,"text":"其實也不需要"},{"start":6795.96,"end":6797.96,"text":"有這麼多的業務規模"},{"start":6797.96,"end":6799.96,"text":"因為一個基本上"},{"start":6799.96,"end":6801.96,"text":"不著力於"},{"start":6801.96,"end":6803.96,"text":"不用心於不把重心"},{"start":6803.96,"end":6805.96,"text":"放在兩岸關係開展的"},{"start":6805.96,"end":6807.96,"text":"大陸事務委員會"},{"start":6808.45,"end":6810.45,"text":"他連他本身存在的意義跟價值"},{"start":6810.45,"end":6812.45,"text":"跟功能其實我都打了幾大的問號"},{"start":6812.45,"end":6814.45,"text":"那當然還有一些"},{"start":6814.45,"end":6816.45,"text":"服務的項目"},{"start":6816.45,"end":6818.45,"text":"一些工作業務要推動"},{"start":6818.45,"end":6820.45,"text":"所以因此目前也不會把經費"},{"start":6820.45,"end":6822.45,"text":"全部刪除"},{"start":6822.45,"end":6824.45,"text":"但是我覺得真的有必要"},{"start":6824.45,"end":6826.45,"text":"大幅的來檢討"},{"start":6826.45,"end":6828.45,"text":"到底把"},{"start":6828.45,"end":6830.45,"text":"國家珍貴的預算"},{"start":6830.45,"end":6832.45,"text":"花在一個已經"},{"start":6832.45,"end":6834.45,"text":"不能稱之為陸委會的陸委會身上"},{"start":6834.45,"end":6836.45,"text":"那是一個對的"},{"start":6836.45,"end":6838.45,"text":"資源配置嗎"},{"start":6838.45,"end":6840.45,"text":"同時我覺得也是"},{"start":6840.45,"end":6842.45,"text":"讓民進黨基本上"},{"start":6842.45,"end":6844.45,"text":"能夠好好的定位陸委會"},{"start":6844.45,"end":6846.45,"text":"既然陸委會變成是"},{"start":6846.45,"end":6850.45,"text":"民進黨抗中保台的前哨的話"},{"start":6850.45,"end":6852.45,"text":"那我想陸委會事實上"},{"start":6852.45,"end":6854.45,"text":"也不再有過去的功能"},{"start":6854.45,"end":6856.45,"text":"跟他的角色"},{"start":6856.45,"end":6858.45,"text":"所以這邊我的提案是"},{"start":6858.45,"end":6860.45,"text":"簡列1500萬元"},{"start":6860.45,"end":6862.45,"text":"以上"},{"start":6862.45,"end":6864.45,"text":"請邱主委表達意見"},{"start":6864.45,"end":6866.45,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6866.45,"end":6868.45,"text":"羅委員的指教"},{"start":6868.45,"end":6870.45,"text":"有關這一幕是我們"},{"start":6870.45,"end":6872.45,"text":"經濟的業務"},{"start":6872.45,"end":6874.45,"text":"這些經濟的業務簡單講"},{"start":6874.45,"end":6876.45,"text":"它是在照顧關華台商"},{"start":6876.45,"end":6878.45,"text":"我們在中國大陸還有許多台商"},{"start":6878.45,"end":6880.45,"text":"需要我們在地服務提供必要的訊息"},{"start":6880.45,"end":6882.45,"text":"同時對於"},{"start":6882.45,"end":6884.45,"text":"剛剛陳毅珍一直很重視的"},{"start":6884.45,"end":6886.45,"text":"小三通的正常運作"},{"start":6886.45,"end":6888.45,"text":"也是靠這一筆費用"},{"start":6888.45,"end":6890.45,"text":"我想如果"},{"start":6890.45,"end":6892.45,"text":"簡列1500萬元"},{"start":6892.45,"end":6894.45,"text":"這個是我們無法承受"},{"start":6894.45,"end":6896.45,"text":"畢竟這一項"},{"start":6896.45,"end":6898.45,"text":"業務呢"},{"start":6898.45,"end":6900.45,"text":"我們已經會簽署"},{"start":6900.45,"end":6902.45,"text":"已經在執行已經超過了"},{"start":6902.45,"end":6904.45,"text":"45%將近"},{"start":6904.45,"end":6906.45,"text":"達到1300多萬"},{"start":6906.45,"end":6908.45,"text":"所以在簡列這個"},{"start":6908.45,"end":6910.45,"text":"幾乎是無法正常維持"},{"start":6910.45,"end":6912.45,"text":"也請各位"},{"start":6912.45,"end":6914.45,"text":"委員能夠"},{"start":6915.17,"end":6917.17,"text":"這個簡列那麼多是無法承受的"},{"start":6917.17,"end":6919.17,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6938.66,"end":6940.66,"text":"拿"},{"start":6939.71,"end":6941.71,"text":"這個數字落差很大"},{"start":6941.71,"end":6943.71,"text":"所以"},{"start":6943.84,"end":6945.84,"text":"我還是要聽一下國民黨團的意見"},{"start":6945.84,"end":6947.84,"text":"好"},{"start":6947.84,"end":6949.84,"text":"病案保留送院會"},{"start":6949.84,"end":6951.84,"text":"邱主委我們就病案保留送院會"},{"start":6951.84,"end":6953.84,"text":"第173案改組決議"},{"start":6953.84,"end":6955.84,"text":"王美惠委員所提"},{"start":6955.84,"end":6957.84,"text":"174案張宏祿委員所提"},{"start":6957.84,"end":6959.84,"text":"改組決議175案黃仁委員所提"},{"start":6959.84,"end":6961.84,"text":"改組決議176案"},{"start":6961.84,"end":6963.84,"text":"王宏威委員所提"},{"start":6963.84,"end":6965.84,"text":"並通案辦理"},{"start":6965.84,"end":6967.84,"text":"我們進入法證業務第四幕"},{"start":6967.84,"end":6969.84,"text":"177案國民黨團"},{"start":6969.84,"end":6971.84,"text":"羅志強委員所提"},{"start":6971.84,"end":6973.84,"text":"279803萬1000元"},{"start":6973.84,"end":6975.84,"text":"羅委員提"},{"start":6975.84,"end":6977.84,"text":"簡列1300萬元"},{"start":6977.84,"end":6979.84,"text":"羅委員請表達"},{"start":6979.84,"end":6981.84,"text":"我的理由如上"},{"start":6981.84,"end":6983.84,"text":"就之前講過了"},{"start":6983.84,"end":6985.84,"text":"那我認為陸委會功能要全面的檢討"},{"start":6985.84,"end":6987.84,"text":"以上"},{"start":6987.84,"end":6989.84,"text":"邱主委是不是理由也是如上"},{"start":6989.12,"end":6991.12,"text":"不一樣"},{"start":6991.12,"end":6993.12,"text":"我們的法證業務的部分"},{"start":6993.12,"end":6995.12,"text":"可以說對"},{"start":6995.12,"end":6997.12,"text":"國人的這個風險的提醒"},{"start":6997.12,"end":6999.12,"text":"各種"},{"start":6999.12,"end":7001.12,"text":"國人賦路安危的"},{"start":7001.12,"end":7003.12,"text":"各種的建置的協助"},{"start":7003.12,"end":7005.12,"text":"那我們這個部分"},{"start":7005.12,"end":7007.12,"text":"在海基會"},{"start":7007.12,"end":7009.12,"text":"但是編列補助2.53億元"},{"start":7009.12,"end":7011.12,"text":"我們真正"},{"start":7011.12,"end":7013.12,"text":"陸委會本部的法證處"},{"start":7013.12,"end":7015.12,"text":"只有用到2600萬"},{"start":7015.12,"end":7017.12,"text":"那事實上"},{"start":7017.12,"end":7019.12,"text":"我們這2600萬做了很多"},{"start":7019.12,"end":7021.12,"text":"像我們"},{"start":7021.12,"end":7023.12,"text":"簡訊"},{"start":7023.12,"end":7025.12,"text":"包括我們各種的"},{"start":7025.12,"end":7027.12,"text":"動態登錄系統"},{"start":7027.12,"end":7029.12,"text":"還有我們協助國人"},{"start":7031.12,"end":7033.12,"text":"賦路有些風險跟對岸"},{"start":7033.12,"end":7035.12,"text":"進行溝通"},{"start":7035.12,"end":7037.12,"text":"相關的這些經費都在這裡面"},{"start":7037.12,"end":7039.12,"text":"那至於海基會"},{"start":7039.12,"end":7041.12,"text":"補助2.53億元"},{"start":7041.12,"end":7043.12,"text":"因為後面還有相關的提案"},{"start":7043.12,"end":7045.12,"text":"那我們這個簡列"},{"start":7045.12,"end":7047.12,"text":"1300萬"},{"start":7047.12,"end":7049.12,"text":"確實我們不清楚"},{"start":7049.12,"end":7051.12,"text":"要簡列在哪個部分"},{"start":7051.12,"end":7053.12,"text":"也請委員給我們指導"},{"start":7053.12,"end":7055.12,"text":"總之我們"},{"start":7055.12,"end":7057.12,"text":"是希望能夠改成主決議"},{"start":7057.12,"end":7059.12,"text":"來符合委員"},{"start":7059.12,"end":7061.12,"text":"做對陸委會"},{"start":7061.12,"end":7063.12,"text":"做業務檢討的需要"},{"start":7063.12,"end":7065.12,"text":"謝謝邱主委說明"},{"start":7065.12,"end":7067.12,"text":"羅委員那個邱主委"},{"start":7067.12,"end":7069.12,"text":"希望改主決議您再表達一下意見"},{"start":7069.12,"end":7071.12,"text":"就保留吧"},{"start":7071.12,"end":7073.12,"text":"177案保留178案"},{"start":7073.12,"end":7075.12,"text":"我們並通案辦理"},{"start":7075.12,"end":7077.12,"text":"179案黃鴻威委員所提"},{"start":7077.12,"end":7079.12,"text":"我們改主決議"},{"start":7079.12,"end":7081.12,"text":"180案王鴻威委員所提"},{"start":7081.12,"end":7083.12,"text":"我們並通案辦理"},{"start":7083.12,"end":7085.12,"text":"181案羅志強委員所提"},{"start":7085.12,"end":7087.12,"text":"法證業務簡列"},{"start":7087.12,"end":7089.12,"text":"1億2000萬"},{"start":7092.66,"end":7094.66,"text":"羅委員您要不要表達一下意見"},{"start":7097.96,"end":7099.96,"text":"我覺得海基會問題更嚴重"},{"start":7100.88,"end":7102.88,"text":"那麼"},{"start":7102.88,"end":7104.88,"text":"捐助他的編列的"},{"start":7104.88,"end":7106.88,"text":"預算是"},{"start":7106.88,"end":7108.88,"text":"2億5306萬"},{"start":7108.88,"end":7110.88,"text":"可是大家知道兩岸關係"},{"start":7110.88,"end":7112.88,"text":"長期冰封"},{"start":7112.88,"end":7114.88,"text":"官方零互動"},{"start":7114.88,"end":7116.88,"text":"海基會三大任務當中協商交流"},{"start":7116.88,"end":7118.88,"text":"已經是完全停擺了"},{"start":7118.88,"end":7120.88,"text":"只剩服務的功能"},{"start":7120.88,"end":7122.88,"text":"但是業務量大減"},{"start":7122.88,"end":7124.88,"text":"就整個他的過去三大任務"},{"start":7124.88,"end":7126.88,"text":"的功能"},{"start":7126.88,"end":7128.88,"text":"已經有兩項幾乎是停擺"},{"start":7128.88,"end":7130.88,"text":"但是陸委會捐助他辦理"},{"start":7130.88,"end":7132.88,"text":"兩岸的事務的經費"},{"start":7132.88,"end":7134.88,"text":"去持續增加"},{"start":7134.88,"end":7136.88,"text":"我覺得是非常不合理"},{"start":7136.88,"end":7138.88,"text":"兩岸大交流時代"},{"start":7138.88,"end":7140.88,"text":"海基會的功能非常重要"},{"start":7140.88,"end":7142.88,"text":"官方兩會"},{"start":7142.88,"end":7144.88,"text":"舉行過15次會議"},{"start":7144.88,"end":7146.88,"text":"簽署23項協議跟兩項共識"},{"start":7146.88,"end":7148.88,"text":"71個城市直航"},{"start":7148.88,"end":7150.88,"text":"千萬入客來台"},{"start":7150.88,"end":7152.88,"text":"那海基會交流協商服務的"},{"start":7152.88,"end":7154.88,"text":"業務量皆遠勝於今日"},{"start":7154.88,"end":7156.88,"text":"但是陸委會97年度"},{"start":7156.88,"end":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我們會議還有22分鐘就會結束"},{"start":7509.96,"end":7511.96,"text":"容我進行宣告"},{"start":7511.96,"end":7513.96,"text":"181案 182案"},{"start":7513.96,"end":7515.96,"text":"183案 184案"},{"start":7515.96,"end":7517.96,"text":"賴世保委員簡列400"},{"start":7517.96,"end":7519.96,"text":"我們並案保留"},{"start":7519.96,"end":7521.96,"text":"我們現在進入第五幕"},{"start":7521.96,"end":7523.96,"text":"港澳盟仗業務"},{"start":7523.96,"end":7525.96,"text":"185案 王美慧委員所提改主決議"},{"start":7525.96,"end":7527.96,"text":"第186案"},{"start":7527.96,"end":7529.96,"text":"張宏祿委員所提改主決議"},{"start":7529.96,"end":7533.96,"text":"187案 林沛祥委員所提並通案辦理"},{"start":7533.96,"end":7535.96,"text":"188案"},{"start":7537.67,"end":7541.67,"text":"廖先祥委員 翁曉林委員所提並通案辦理"},{"start":7541.67,"end":7545.67,"text":"189案 王宏威委員所提並通案辦理"},{"start":7545.67,"end":7549.67,"text":"193案 黃仁委員所提改主決議"},{"start":7549.67,"end":7551.67,"text":"191案"},{"start":7551.67,"end":7555.67,"text":"廖先祥 翁曉林委員所提改主決議"},{"start":7555.67,"end":7557.67,"text":"192案"},{"start":7558.61,"end":7562.61,"text":"王宏威委員所提全數簡列"},{"start":7564.2,"end":7568.2,"text":"港澳盟仗業務3476萬1000元"},{"start":7570.97,"end":7576.97,"text":"193案 王宏威委員所提簡列347萬6000元"},{"start":7576.97,"end":7580.97,"text":"這個兩個所提案不一樣"},{"start":7580.97,"end":7584.97,"text":"案子是一樣的 王宏威委員能不能補充說明一下"},{"start":7584.97,"end":7586.97,"text":"請"},{"start":7586.97,"end":7590.97,"text":"那港澳盟仗業務 其實大家都知道"},{"start":7590.97,"end":7592.97,"text":"現在沒有什麼盟仗業務了啦"},{"start":7592.97,"end":7596.97,"text":"那大概主要的現在陸委會有一些"},{"start":7596.97,"end":7598.97,"text":"是港澳的業務"},{"start":7598.97,"end":7602.97,"text":"那大家也知道 現在這個台港澳之間"},{"start":7602.97,"end":7608.97,"text":"這業務我們過去還有在港澳設辦事處"},{"start":7608.97,"end":7611.97,"text":"現在對方也不讓我們設"},{"start":7611.97,"end":7613.97,"text":"也不讓我們去"},{"start":7613.97,"end":7616.97,"text":"所以第一個 這個部分"},{"start":7616.97,"end":7620.97,"text":"他的業務還是不是需要這個維持"},{"start":7620.97,"end":7624.97,"text":"另外就是事實上這個就是有關於"},{"start":7624.97,"end":7627.97,"text":"這個台港的經濟的交流的部分"},{"start":7627.97,"end":7630.97,"text":"那當然這個我在質詢的時候"},{"start":7630.97,"end":7633.97,"text":"我們的主委說台港經濟非常重要"},{"start":7633.97,"end":7636.97,"text":"我們對香港的貿易也在成長"},{"start":7636.97,"end":7638.97,"text":"可是在同一時間"},{"start":7638.97,"end":7644.97,"text":"事實上陸委會針對連我們農產品去大陸"},{"start":7644.97,"end":7645.97,"text":"去銷售到大陸"},{"start":7645.97,"end":7647.97,"text":"也都說這是統戰"},{"start":7647.97,"end":7651.97,"text":"不但在調查要辦我們的縣市長"},{"start":7651.97,"end":7656.97,"text":"大家都記得姚慶林縣長也不過只是錄了一個影片"},{"start":7656.97,"end":7659.97,"text":"就被陸委會認為是違法"},{"start":7659.97,"end":7660.97,"text":"我也不曉得違法在哪裡"},{"start":7660.97,"end":7662.97,"text":"然後要法辦"},{"start":7662.97,"end":7665.97,"text":"那甚至連地方的農會系統"},{"start":7667.71,"end":7670.71,"text":"來賣台灣的水果到大陸去"},{"start":7670.71,"end":7672.71,"text":"也一樣被調查"},{"start":7672.71,"end":7674.71,"text":"被陸委會點名"},{"start":7674.71,"end":7677.71,"text":"再提就警告他們"},{"start":7677.71,"end":7682.71,"text":"所以也如果說陸委會針對連台灣農產品銷往大陸"},{"start":7682.71,"end":7686.71,"text":"大陸的市場你都認為說這是統戰"},{"start":7686.71,"end":7690.71,"text":"那請問一下台港之間的經貿是不是統戰"},{"start":7690.71,"end":7694.71,"text":"所以我今天的預算全部都按照陸委會的政策"},{"start":7694.71,"end":7696.71,"text":"我依照陸委會的政策"},{"start":7696.71,"end":7699.71,"text":"我覺得這個預算應該怎麼樣訂定"},{"start":7699.71,"end":7704.71,"text":"那另外一個事實上還有他們一直在這個"},{"start":7704.71,"end":7708.71,"text":"就是應該是有預算"},{"start":7708.71,"end":7711.71,"text":"就是補助台港經濟文化測禁會"},{"start":7711.71,"end":7715.71,"text":"台港經濟文化測禁會董事長也不是專職的"},{"start":7715.71,"end":7718.71,"text":"現在是我們的央廣董事長"},{"start":7718.71,"end":7721.71,"text":"而且連董事長辦公室現在都被撤掉"},{"start":7721.71,"end":7724.71,"text":"變成陸委會的會議室"},{"start":7724.71,"end":7727.71,"text":"所以請問一下台港經濟文化測禁會"},{"start":7727.71,"end":7730.71,"text":"到底目前還有什麼樣的功能"},{"start":7730.71,"end":7735.71,"text":"還在假借所謂的這個港澳盟帳業務"},{"start":7735.71,"end":7739.71,"text":"然後使這個我們在用納稅人的錢"},{"start":7739.71,"end":7743.71,"text":"我覺得這個部分預算應該做處理"},{"start":7743.71,"end":7745.71,"text":"另外我補充一下"},{"start":7745.71,"end":7748.71,"text":"剛才范雲委員講說"},{"start":7748.71,"end":7750.71,"text":"陸委會副主委"},{"start":7750.71,"end":7754.71,"text":"沈友中副主委他的臉書非常的溫和"},{"start":7754.71,"end":7756.71,"text":"我只唸一句"},{"start":7756.71,"end":7760.71,"text":"因為他當然是因為民眾黨前兩天針對"},{"start":7760.71,"end":7761.71,"text":"我沒有說他的臉書喔"},{"start":7763.22,"end":7765.22,"text":"那你講什麼呢"},{"start":7765.22,"end":7766.22,"text":"你講哪裡呢"},{"start":7766.22,"end":7767.22,"text":"哪裡溫和呢"},{"start":7767.22,"end":7771.22,"text":"所以你很不做功課嘛"},{"start":7771.22,"end":7773.22,"text":"我又沒有講臉書"},{"start":7773.22,"end":7774.22,"text":"我只是說我沒有說"},{"start":7774.22,"end":7776.22,"text":"那我現在來補充說明好不好"},{"start":7776.22,"end":7778.22,"text":"因為范雲委員根本提油救火"},{"start":7778.22,"end":7781.22,"text":"就在我們審預算的時候"},{"start":7781.22,"end":7783.22,"text":"我們的副主委"},{"start":7783.22,"end":7784.22,"text":"請問邱卓政主委"},{"start":7784.22,"end":7786.22,"text":"我不曉得你看到沒有"},{"start":7786.22,"end":7788.22,"text":"我們沈友中副主委"},{"start":7788.22,"end":7790.22,"text":"針對民眾黨前幾天"},{"start":7790.22,"end":7792.22,"text":"質疑他"},{"start":7792.22,"end":7794.22,"text":"就是陸委會的工作"},{"start":7794.22,"end":7796.22,"text":"到越南去做考察"},{"start":7796.22,"end":7799.22,"text":"那其實我覺得我們所有的行政單位"},{"start":7799.22,"end":7801.22,"text":"都可以做說明嘛"},{"start":7801.22,"end":7803.22,"text":"都可以做說明"},{"start":7803.22,"end":7805.22,"text":"不管你的預算怎麼樣的執行"},{"start":7805.22,"end":7806.22,"text":"怎麼樣花的"},{"start":7806.22,"end":7808.22,"text":"都可以跟委員做說明"},{"start":7809.53,"end":7811.53,"text":"但是我們現在整個的行政信頭"},{"start":7811.53,"end":7812.53,"text":"我剛才在講嘛"},{"start":7812.53,"end":7814.53,"text":"包含那個"},{"start":7814.53,"end":7816.53,"text":"這個許家清"},{"start":7816.53,"end":7817.53,"text":"這個委員長"},{"start":7817.53,"end":7818.53,"text":"喬委會"},{"start":7818.53,"end":7820.53,"text":"拿來教訓"},{"start":7820.99,"end":7822.99,"text":"我不曉得他是老師"},{"start":7822.99,"end":7824.99,"text":"還是媽媽在教訓兒子"},{"start":7824.99,"end":7826.99,"text":"來教訓民眾黨的委員"},{"start":7826.99,"end":7828.99,"text":"他們的委員不會做委員"},{"start":7828.99,"end":7830.99,"text":"他來教他"},{"start":7830.99,"end":7832.99,"text":"好 沈友中委員來"},{"start":7832.99,"end":7834.99,"text":"那邱卓政主委我來給你"},{"start":7834.72,"end":7835.72,"text":"講一段"},{"start":7835.72,"end":7837.72,"text":"他在他的臉書上"},{"start":7837.72,"end":7839.72,"text":"講了一段還用刮鬍起來"},{"start":7840.31,"end":7841.31,"text":"所以喔"},{"start":7841.31,"end":7842.31,"text":"為了刪預算找理由"},{"start":7842.31,"end":7844.31,"text":"硬要罵人來刪的做法"},{"start":7844.31,"end":7845.31,"text":"好 刮鬍"},{"start":7845.31,"end":7846.31,"text":"要刪就刪"},{"start":7846.31,"end":7848.31,"text":"不用放監獄訊息帶風向"},{"start":7850.13,"end":7851.13,"text":"這就是他對"},{"start":7851.13,"end":7853.13,"text":"現在我們在審查預算"},{"start":7853.13,"end":7856.13,"text":"直接在他的臉書開槍"},{"start":7857.89,"end":7859.89,"text":"我真的不理解"},{"start":7860.78,"end":7862.78,"text":"他可以做一些說明"},{"start":7863.65,"end":7865.65,"text":"所以我覺得我們每一次"},{"start":7865.65,"end":7866.65,"text":"像我們提案那麼多"},{"start":7866.65,"end":7868.65,"text":"那每一個單位"},{"start":7868.65,"end":7869.65,"text":"好 來做說明"},{"start":7869.65,"end":7870.65,"text":"老師 我也很感謝"},{"start":7871.34,"end":7872.34,"text":"那我今天我也知道"},{"start":7872.34,"end":7873.34,"text":"你也不是私人在用"},{"start":7874.36,"end":7875.36,"text":"可是 當"},{"start":7875.88,"end":7877.88,"text":"這個立法院"},{"start":7877.77,"end":7879.77,"text":"有委員在質疑你的時候"},{"start":7879.77,"end":7881.77,"text":"你是用這樣開槍"},{"start":7881.77,"end":7882.77,"text":"說什麼戰狼"},{"start":7883.31,"end":7885.31,"text":"這是對外戰狼嗎"},{"start":7885.31,"end":7887.31,"text":"根本是對立法院在做戰狼"},{"start":7887.31,"end":7889.31,"text":"所以 主委 邱主委"},{"start":7889.31,"end":7891.31,"text":"沈有中副主委"},{"start":7891.31,"end":7893.31,"text":"在我們審查預算的時候"},{"start":7893.31,"end":7894.31,"text":"你在第一線"},{"start":7894.31,"end":7896.31,"text":"想辦法跟我們委員來解釋"},{"start":7896.31,"end":7898.31,"text":"他在那邊自己開戰場"},{"start":7898.31,"end":7899.31,"text":"然後嗆"},{"start":7899.31,"end":7900.31,"text":"要刪就刪"},{"start":7900.31,"end":7902.31,"text":"他一直就要刪"},{"start":7902.31,"end":7904.31,"text":"你同意他的說法嗎"},{"start":7905.18,"end":7907.18,"text":"那你坐在這邊幹嘛呢"},{"start":7907.27,"end":7909.27,"text":"他有在尊重你這個主委嗎"},{"start":7909.27,"end":7911.27,"text":"主委辛辛苦苦在這邊幫"},{"start":7912.2,"end":7914.2,"text":"幫那個立委會爭取預算"},{"start":7914.2,"end":7916.2,"text":"他在那邊無所謂啊"},{"start":7916.13,"end":7917.13,"text":"說要刪就刪啦"},{"start":7917.13,"end":7918.13,"text":"不要帶風向啦"},{"start":7918.13,"end":7920.13,"text":"這到底什麼樣的態度啊"},{"start":7922.3,"end":7923.3,"text":"所以真的"},{"start":7923.3,"end":7925.3,"text":"我再一次講"},{"start":7925.3,"end":7927.3,"text":"從徐家清到這個沈有中"},{"start":7928.72,"end":7929.72,"text":"今天我們在審查預算"},{"start":7929.72,"end":7931.72,"text":"大家花這麼多的時間"},{"start":7931.72,"end":7932.72,"text":"我們今天這頁預算"},{"start":7932.72,"end":7934.72,"text":"是拿來給我用的嗎"},{"start":7934.72,"end":7935.72,"text":"是韓國院長在用嗎"},{"start":7935.72,"end":7936.72,"text":"不是啊"},{"start":7937.96,"end":7938.96,"text":"是蔡徐商在用嗎"},{"start":7938.96,"end":7939.96,"text":"也不是啊"},{"start":7940.24,"end":7941.24,"text":"對不對"},{"start":7941.24,"end":7942.24,"text":"大家都這麼辛苦坐在這邊"},{"start":7942.24,"end":7943.24,"text":"你們在外面開戰場"},{"start":7944.78,"end":7946.78,"text":"不要刪經濟業務"},{"start":7946.78,"end":7947.78,"text":"你可以"},{"start":7947.78,"end":7949.78,"text":"你要砍他的個人特別費"},{"start":7949.78,"end":7951.78,"text":"我們有刪經濟業務"},{"start":7951.78,"end":7952.78,"text":"請問預算是不是"},{"start":7952.78,"end":7954.78,"text":"也是我們的職業專政"},{"start":7954.78,"end":7955.78,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":7955.78,"end":7957.78,"text":"謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":7957.78,"end":7958.78,"text":"謝謝宏偉委員發言"},{"start":7958.78,"end":7959.78,"text":"謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":7959.78,"end":7960.78,"text":"謝謝范宇委員"},{"start":7960.78,"end":7961.78,"text":"謝謝啊"},{"start":7961.78,"end":7963.78,"text":"跟邱主委報告一下"},{"start":7963.78,"end":7964.78,"text":"不敢"},{"start":7964.78,"end":7965.78,"text":"現在王宏偉委員"},{"start":7965.78,"end":7966.78,"text":"最重要一件事情"},{"start":7966.78,"end":7968.78,"text":"您還沒有說清楚就是"},{"start":7968.78,"end":7973.78,"text":"您那個193讓跟193數字不一樣"},{"start":7973.78,"end":7974.78,"text":"好 192"},{"start":7974.78,"end":7976.78,"text":"就是維持192"},{"start":7976.78,"end":7977.78,"text":"全數簡列"},{"start":7977.78,"end":7979.78,"text":"193是簡列347"},{"start":7979.78,"end":7981.78,"text":"你是要求192就對了"},{"start":7981.78,"end":7982.78,"text":"全數簡列"},{"start":7982.78,"end":7983.78,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7983.78,"end":7984.78,"text":"好 那我們現在"},{"start":7985.8,"end":7988.8,"text":"194案 並通案辦理"},{"start":7988.8,"end":7990.8,"text":"195案 並通案辦理"},{"start":7990.8,"end":7993.8,"text":"196案 並通案辦理 取"},{"start":7994.83,"end":7995.83,"text":"全部保留"},{"start":7995.83,"end":7997.83,"text":"我們進入第六案 募"},{"start":7998.8,"end":7999.8,"text":"聯絡業務"},{"start":7999.8,"end":8002.8,"text":"197案 徐宇甄委員簡列"},{"start":8002.8,"end":8004.8,"text":"1000案 徐宇甄委員請說明"},{"start":8011.23,"end":8013.23,"text":"聯絡業務197案"},{"start":8013.23,"end":8018.23,"text":"3061案 徐宇甄委員所提簡列1000案"},{"start":8018.64,"end":8019.64,"text":"等一下"},{"start":8020.45,"end":8022.45,"text":"來得及 請內政部內政"},{"start":8025.27,"end":8026.27,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":8026.27,"end":8027.27,"text":"請說明"},{"start":8027.27,"end":8029.27,"text":"就是針對這個聯絡業務的部分"},{"start":8029.27,"end":8031.27,"text":"它今年度編列的預算是"},{"start":8031.27,"end":8033.27,"text":"3061萬4000"},{"start":8033.27,"end":8036.27,"text":"比114年度的1462萬9000"},{"start":8036.27,"end":8040.27,"text":"增加了1598萬5000"},{"start":8040.27,"end":8042.27,"text":"增幅高達109%"},{"start":8042.27,"end":8044.27,"text":"但是以現在實際的運作"},{"start":8044.27,"end":8045.27,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":8045.27,"end":8046.27,"text":"陸委會的聯絡業務"},{"start":8046.27,"end":8048.27,"text":"不但沒有辦法幫助兩岸的交流"},{"start":8048.27,"end":8050.27,"text":"而且屢次在記者會上"},{"start":8050.27,"end":8052.27,"text":"激化兩岸對立的言論"},{"start":8052.27,"end":8053.27,"text":"導致政策的說明"},{"start":8053.27,"end":8054.27,"text":"流於政治操作"},{"start":8054.27,"end":8058.27,"text":"跟原本訂的所謂的溝通交流"},{"start":8058.27,"end":8059.27,"text":"根本背道而馳"},{"start":8059.27,"end":8062.27,"text":"再者 社會上旅遊這個陸配"},{"start":8062.27,"end":8063.27,"text":"因為不了解台灣法規"},{"start":8063.27,"end":8065.27,"text":"跟社會規範而言行失當"},{"start":8065.27,"end":8066.27,"text":"甚至被遣返"},{"start":8066.27,"end":8068.27,"text":"但陸委會也沒有積極的"},{"start":8068.27,"end":8071.27,"text":"履行他的溝通與諮詢的責任"},{"start":8071.27,"end":8074.27,"text":"顯見業務的執行跟編列預算不符"},{"start":8074.27,"end":8075.27,"text":"而且這筆預算"},{"start":8075.27,"end":8077.27,"text":"在短短的一年內暴增一倍以上"},{"start":8077.27,"end":8079.27,"text":"但經費的增加並沒有伴隨"},{"start":8079.27,"end":8082.27,"text":"實質的政策成效的展現"},{"start":8082.27,"end":8085.27,"text":"那所以說陸委會雖然聲稱"},{"start":8085.27,"end":8087.27,"text":"透過各項的聯繫跟宣傳"},{"start":8087.27,"end":8089.27,"text":"推動兩岸的政策"},{"start":8089.27,"end":8092.27,"text":"但實際上並沒有改善兩岸交流"},{"start":8092.27,"end":8094.27,"text":"停滯所帶來的困境"},{"start":8094.27,"end":8096.27,"text":"反而製造對立"},{"start":8096.27,"end":8098.27,"text":"所以呢 針對這個部分"},{"start":8098.27,"end":8100.27,"text":"本席也建議簡列一千萬以督促"},{"start":8100.27,"end":8103.27,"text":"陸委會實際的這個檢討"},{"start":8103.27,"end":8106.27,"text":"聯絡業務避免扶邊濫邊"},{"start":8106.27,"end":8107.27,"text":"虛好公堂 謝謝"},{"start":8107.27,"end":8109.27,"text":"徐政委 那個委員會是簡列"},{"start":8109.27,"end":8110.27,"text":"五百六十三萬"},{"start":8110.27,"end":8112.27,"text":"好 邱主委請表達一下 謝謝"},{"start":8112.27,"end":8116.27,"text":"是 謝謝院長 謝謝各位委員指教"},{"start":8116.27,"end":8118.27,"text":"因為這個聯絡業務"},{"start":8118.27,"end":8120.27,"text":"在這個委員會議"},{"start":8120.27,"end":8122.27,"text":"已經簡列了五百六十三萬"},{"start":8122.27,"end":8125.27,"text":"同時呢 我們也協調了"},{"start":8125.27,"end":8127.27,"text":"賴斯堡委員他也同意"},{"start":8127.27,"end":8129.27,"text":"刪減一百萬"},{"start":8129.27,"end":8130.27,"text":"也就是說這個項目"},{"start":8130.27,"end":8133.27,"text":"已經簡列到六百五十三萬"},{"start":8133.27,"end":8135.27,"text":"加上已經發簽署"},{"start":8135.27,"end":8137.27,"text":"實在是沒有辦法再如"},{"start":8137.27,"end":8139.27,"text":"剛徐委員所說"},{"start":8139.27,"end":8141.27,"text":"簡列一千萬 是不是可以"},{"start":8141.27,"end":8145.27,"text":"對 用六百五十三"},{"start":8145.27,"end":8147.27,"text":"就是委員會的這個"},{"start":8147.27,"end":8148.27,"text":"簡列數來通過"},{"start":8148.27,"end":8150.27,"text":"好 謝謝 那個徐政委員"},{"start":8150.27,"end":8151.27,"text":"邱主委的意思就是說"},{"start":8151.27,"end":8153.27,"text":"併委員會的五百六十三萬"},{"start":8153.27,"end":8155.27,"text":"加上賴斯堡委員要求的"},{"start":8155.27,"end":8156.27,"text":"簡列一百萬"},{"start":8156.27,"end":8160.27,"text":"我們總共簡列六百六十三萬"},{"start":8160.27,"end":8161.27,"text":"您能接受 我們就"},{"start":8161.27,"end":8163.27,"text":"邱主委也能夠接受"},{"start":8163.27,"end":8164.27,"text":"您看這樣好嗎"},{"start":8164.27,"end":8165.27,"text":"保留 謝謝"},{"start":8165.27,"end":8166.27,"text":"保留 好 謝謝"},{"start":8166.27,"end":8169.27,"text":"謝謝 我們197案保留"},{"start":8169.27,"end":8171.27,"text":"198案並通案辦理"},{"start":8171.27,"end":8174.27,"text":"199案並通 並改簡列"},{"start":8174.27,"end":8175.27,"text":"這可以保留"},{"start":8175.27,"end":8176.27,"text":"保留 已經保留了"},{"start":8176.27,"end":8180.27,"text":"保留 我們進入第八幕文教業務"},{"start":8180.27,"end":8183.27,"text":"200案該主決議"},{"start":8183.27,"end":8184.27,"text":"張宏祿委員所提"},{"start":8185.37,"end":8187.37,"text":"201案"},{"start":8187.37,"end":8190.37,"text":"廖先祥 翁曉玲委員所提"},{"start":8190.37,"end":8192.369999999999,"text":"並通案辦理"},{"start":8192.369999999999,"end":8193.369999999999,"text":"202案"},{"start":8193.369999999999,"end":8194.369999999999,"text":"王鴻薇委員所提"},{"start":8194.369999999999,"end":8196.369999999999,"text":"並通案辦理"},{"start":8196.369999999999,"end":8198.369999999999,"text":"203案"},{"start":8199.05,"end":8202.05,"text":"廖先祥委員 翁曉玲委員所提"},{"start":8202.05,"end":8205.05,"text":"簡列七百萬 凍結一百萬"},{"start":8205.05,"end":8207.05,"text":"翁曉玲委員請表達意見"},{"start":8208.1,"end":8210.1,"text":"老師 就這個部分來說的話"},{"start":8210.1,"end":8211.1,"text":"我們其實有溝通啦"},{"start":8211.1,"end":8214.1,"text":"我後來是有提一些條件"},{"start":8214.1,"end":8216.1,"text":"那麼陸委會這裡基本上"},{"start":8216.1,"end":8217.1,"text":"我不知道他同不同意"},{"start":8217.1,"end":8219.1,"text":"好 那麼如果同意的話"},{"start":8219.1,"end":8220.1,"text":"我就改簡列兩百萬"},{"start":8220.1,"end":8221.1,"text":"凍結兩百萬"},{"start":8221.1,"end":8222.1,"text":"如果不同意的話"},{"start":8222.1,"end":8224.1,"text":"這個案子就是全數保留"},{"start":8225.67,"end":8227.67,"text":"麻煩邱主委表達意見"},{"start":8227.67,"end":8230.67,"text":"現在改 翁曉玲委員在前提條件之下"},{"start":8230.67,"end":8232.67,"text":"凍結兩百萬 請表達意見"},{"start":8232.67,"end":8235.67,"text":"是 相關的這些主決議的內容"},{"start":8235.67,"end":8238.67,"text":"我們跟委員之間還有一些歧異"},{"start":8238.67,"end":8240.67,"text":"好 那如果說沒辦法接受"},{"start":8240.67,"end":8243.67,"text":"我們就尊重保留"},{"start":8243.67,"end":8245.67,"text":"好 范英委員請補充意見"},{"start":8245.67,"end":8249.67,"text":"我對在野黨對陸委會的預算的方式"},{"start":8249.67,"end":8250.67,"text":"非常的不能接受"},{"start":8250.67,"end":8252.67,"text":"那你們一直是以"},{"start":8252.67,"end":8254.67,"text":"就是好像陸委會講話"},{"start":8254.67,"end":8256.67,"text":"就是講得不夠好"},{"start":8256.67,"end":8257.67,"text":"那我想請問你們"},{"start":8257.67,"end":8260.67,"text":"當國台辦在修理台灣人民的時候"},{"start":8260.67,"end":8261.67,"text":"你們覺得哪個部會"},{"start":8261.67,"end":8263.67,"text":"應該為台灣人民發聲"},{"start":8263.67,"end":8264.67,"text":"不應該有人平衡"},{"start":8264.67,"end":8266.67,"text":"他在國際上的言論嗎"},{"start":8266.67,"end":8267.67,"text":"那就應該吞人嗎"},{"start":8267.67,"end":8270.67,"text":"那今天你們以哪一位副主委"},{"start":8270.67,"end":8271.67,"text":"講的話不高興"},{"start":8271.67,"end":8273.67,"text":"那你刪減的都是陸委會"},{"start":8273.67,"end":8276.67,"text":"在做的一些無形的工作"},{"start":8276.67,"end":8278.67,"text":"這麼多台灣人還有台商"},{"start":8278.67,"end":8280.67,"text":"到中國旅遊或做生意消失"},{"start":8280.67,"end":8281.67,"text":"我知道陸委會"},{"start":8281.67,"end":8283.67,"text":"我們接過不少陳情案"},{"start":8283.67,"end":8284.67,"text":"都在默默的協助"},{"start":8284.67,"end":8286.67,"text":"你把他聯絡業務也刪掉"},{"start":8286.67,"end":8288.67,"text":"然後經濟業務也刪掉"},{"start":8288.67,"end":8291.67,"text":"那你到底是在幫台灣人"},{"start":8291.67,"end":8292.67,"text":"還是在幫對岸"},{"start":8292.67,"end":8294.67,"text":"那我要講的事情是"},{"start":8294.67,"end":8296.67,"text":"你們對任何的政治發言不滿"},{"start":8296.67,"end":8297.67,"text":"包含我剛剛講"},{"start":8297.67,"end":8299.67,"text":"副主委只是回應他被"},{"start":8299.67,"end":8301.67,"text":"他覺得他冤枉的部分"},{"start":8301.67,"end":8304.67,"text":"那你可以去就特別費或什麼著手"},{"start":8304.67,"end":8306.67,"text":"不應該對陸委會的業務刪減"},{"start":8306.67,"end":8308.67,"text":"因為他是保護台灣人民的"},{"start":8308.67,"end":8309.67,"text":"重要的業務"},{"start":8309.67,"end":8311.67,"text":"很多東西是無形中在做的"},{"start":8311.67,"end":8312.67,"text":"如果你遇到陳情案"},{"start":8312.67,"end":8313.67,"text":"你去問陸委會"},{"start":8313.67,"end":8315.67,"text":"他就是能夠幫你協助處理"},{"start":8315.67,"end":8316.67,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8316.67,"end":8317.67,"text":"謝謝范醫委員"},{"start":8317.67,"end":8319.67,"text":"203案保留"},{"start":8319.67,"end":8323.67,"text":"204案吳奇旻委員所提"},{"start":8323.67,"end":8324.67,"text":"凍結50萬保留"},{"start":8324.67,"end":8326.67,"text":"205案廖先祥委員所提"},{"start":8326.67,"end":8327.67,"text":"凍結300萬元"},{"start":8327.67,"end":8328.67,"text":"我們保留"},{"start":8328.67,"end":8331.67,"text":"我們現在進入206組決議"},{"start":8331.67,"end":8333.67,"text":"徐信義委員所提"},{"start":8333.67,"end":8335.67,"text":"207案徐信義委員所提"},{"start":8335.67,"end":8338.67,"text":"主決議208案賴思寶委員"},{"start":8338.67,"end":8341.67,"text":"請問206、207、208陸委會的"},{"start":8341.67,"end":8342.67,"text":"是,照案辦理"},{"start":8342.67,"end":8343.67,"text":"好,照案辦理"},{"start":8343.67,"end":8345.67,"text":"那謝謝我們照案通過"},{"start":8345.67,"end":8346.67,"text":"謝謝陸委會、邱主委"},{"start":8346.67,"end":8347.67,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8347.67,"end":8349.67,"text":"我們現在進入早上最後"},{"start":8349.67,"end":8350.67,"text":"一個單位的審查"},{"start":8350.67,"end":8353.67,"text":"我們進入不當黨產處理委員會"},{"start":8355.59,"end":8356.59,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8357.88,"end":8359.88,"text":"好,請,麻煩請"},{"start":8362.5,"end":8363.5,"text":"林主委"},{"start":8378.7,"end":8381.7,"text":"我們現在不當黨產委員會"},{"start":8381.7,"end":8382.7,"text":"林主委"},{"start":8382.7,"end":8383.7,"text":"好,歡迎您"},{"start":8383.7,"end":8384.7,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":8384.7,"end":8386.7,"text":"我們進入209案"},{"start":8386.7,"end":8387.7,"text":"翁曉玲委員所提"},{"start":8387.7,"end":8389.7,"text":"並通案辦理"},{"start":8389.7,"end":8391.7,"text":"211案翁曉玲委員所提"},{"start":8391.7,"end":8393.7,"text":"並通案辦理"},{"start":8393.7,"end":8397.7,"text":"211案王宏威委員所提"},{"start":8397.7,"end":8399.7,"text":"全數簡略"},{"start":8399.7,"end":8400.7,"text":"麻煩請王宏威委員"},{"start":8401.99,"end":8402.99,"text":"請"},{"start":8403.79,"end":8405.79,"text":"王宏威委員的意見"},{"start":8405.79,"end":8407.79,"text":"基本上也是認為說"},{"start":8407.79,"end":8408.79,"text":"是不當黨產委員會"},{"start":8408.79,"end":8409.79,"text":"到目前為止"},{"start":8409.79,"end":8411.79,"text":"也沒有發揮任何的功能"},{"start":8411.79,"end":8413.79,"text":"而且該做的基本上都做了"},{"start":8413.79,"end":8415.79,"text":"其實本來就應該可以解散掉"},{"start":8415.79,"end":8416.79,"text":"所以他這邊堅持就是說"},{"start":8416.79,"end":8419.79,"text":"要他的這個整個政務人員的待遇"},{"start":8419.79,"end":8420.79,"text":"全數簡略"},{"start":8421.3,"end":8422.3,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":8422.3,"end":8423.3,"text":"林主委請表達意見"},{"start":8423.88,"end":8425.88,"text":"我想就依照相關的規定去辦理就好了"},{"start":8429.5,"end":8431.5,"text":"那我們就保留了,好嗎"},{"start":8431.5,"end":8433.5,"text":"我們211案保留"},{"start":8433.5,"end":8435.5,"text":"212案廖先祥委員所提"},{"start":8435.5,"end":8437.5,"text":"我們並通案辦理"},{"start":8437.5,"end":8440.5,"text":"第二幕,黨產處理業務"},{"start":8440.5,"end":8442.5,"text":"國民黨團羅志強所提"},{"start":8442.5,"end":8444.5,"text":"我們並通案辦理"},{"start":8444.5,"end":8447.5,"text":"214案徐宇峥委員所提"},{"start":8447.5,"end":8449.5,"text":"並通案辦理"},{"start":8449.93,"end":8451.93,"text":"215案"},{"start":8454.34,"end":8456.34,"text":"賴世保委員所提"},{"start":8456.34,"end":8457.34,"text":"簡略100萬"},{"start":8457.34,"end":8458.34,"text":"林主委請表達意見"},{"start":8459.13,"end":8461.13,"text":"我們已經同意了"},{"start":8461.13,"end":8462.13,"text":"那我們就同意"},{"start":8463.65,"end":8464.65,"text":"簡略100萬"},{"start":8466.78,"end":8468.78,"text":"謝謝林主委"},{"start":8468.78,"end":8469.78,"text":"各黨黨人非常感謝"},{"start":8469.78,"end":8471.78,"text":"明天早上我們"},{"start":8471.78,"end":8472.78,"text":"林培洋署議長請"},{"start":8473.39,"end":8475.39,"text":"代表羅志強委員保留"},{"start":8475.39,"end":8476.39,"text":"到送言會處理"},{"start":8476.85,"end":8478.85,"text":"好好"},{"start":8483.77,"end":8485.77,"text":"謝謝林主委"},{"start":8485.77,"end":8487.77,"text":"請回謝謝"},{"start":8487.77,"end":8489.77,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部大家辛苦的一個早上"},{"start":8489.77,"end":8491.77,"text":"還有各位列席李柏毅委員"},{"start":8491.77,"end":8493.77,"text":"翁曉林委員陳玉珍委員"},{"start":8493.77,"end":8495.77,"text":"謝謝你們"},{"start":8495.77,"end":8497.77,"text":"我們現在接近11點半"},{"start":8497.77,"end":8499.77,"text":"今天協商告一段落"},{"start":8499.77,"end":8501.77,"text":"昨天,各位黨團幹部麻煩請聽一下"},{"start":8501.77,"end":8503.77,"text":"莊瑞雄署長請聽一下"},{"start":8503.77,"end":8505.77,"text":"昨天監察院協商的結論"},{"start":8505.77,"end":8507.77,"text":"我們先授權議事處要先行發文"},{"start":8507.77,"end":8509.77,"text":"這第一個重點"},{"start":8509.77,"end":8511.77,"text":"公聽會"},{"start":8511.77,"end":8513.77,"text":"黨邊要報告很重要"},{"start":8513.77,"end":8515.77,"text":"明天早上如果院會能夠在上午結束之後"},{"start":8515.77,"end":8517.77,"text":"明天下午我們要繼續"},{"start":8517.77,"end":8519.77,"text":"我們要繼續進行"},{"start":8519.77,"end":8521.77,"text":"朝野協商總預算案"},{"start":8521.77,"end":8523.77,"text":"這一點要跟各位黨團幹部報告一下"},{"start":8523.77,"end":8525.77,"text":"特別要拜託"},{"start":8525.77,"end":8527.77,"text":"我們會再行發文"},{"start":8527.77,"end":8529.77,"text":"今天協商到此為止"},{"start":8529.77,"end":8531.77,"text":"非常感謝大家的參與"},{"start":8531.77,"end":8533.77,"text":"謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:04.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:16.100588+08:00","text":"好，謝謝各位黨團幹部，也謝謝各位行政官員，我們今天列席的有行政院張秘書長、主計總\n處的陳主計長，謝謝。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:16.335882+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:26.296667+08:00","text":"我們進入「一般行政」，行政院第 1目，第 25案無法達成共識，我們就保留。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:28.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:36.476154+08:00","text":"第 30案陳昭姿委員凍結 500萬，張秘書長請表達意見好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:39.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:48.222500+08:00","text":"謝謝院長一大早就召集朝野協商，不過第 30 案的部分，我想昨天在最後我也有表\n達過了，那就看委員們決定怎麼處理。謝謝。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:48.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:49.800000+08:00","text":"好，第 30 案保留。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:50.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:09.327273+08:00","text":"我們進入第 31 案翁曉玲委員併通案辦理；第 32 案陳昭姿委員併通案辦\n理；第 33 案陳昭姿委員併通案辦理；第 34 案陳清龍委員併通案辦理；第 35 案併通案辦理，這\n是林沛祥委員所提；第 36案廖先翔委員併通案辦理。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:09.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:12.385714+08:00","text":"我們進入第 2 目「施政及法制業務」。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:12.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:19.377778+08:00","text":"第 37 案翁曉玲委員全數減列，秘書長表達一下意見好\n嗎？","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:20.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:27.172308+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長、謝謝各位委員一大早進行第二天的朝野協商。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:28.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:14.040000+08:00","text":"院長，請容許我在開\n始之前先感謝幾位委員，包括廖先翔委員、翁曉玲委員、鄭天財委員、黃仁委員、陳永康委員\n，民進黨的委員包括張宏陸委員、王美惠委員，還有包括民眾黨黨團的許忠信委員、洪毓祥委\n員，還有許宇甄委員跟賴士葆委員，就一些案子事前已經有溝通過，都已經改成主決議，這樣\n可以加速進行的時間。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:14.430476+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:27.990000+08:00","text":"第二個就是我知道院長接下來還有一千多案要協商，所以接下來容我做比較簡短的說明，就\n第 2 目「施政及法制業務」的部分，我做幾個摘要說明。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:28.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:50.270000+08:00","text":"今年度行政院編列「施政及法制業務\n」1,437 萬，這個計畫去年遭到全數的刪除，也要跟院長報告，今年行政院院本部的預算，除了\n施政法制業務之外，還有新聞傳播業務以及人權處的預算全數遭到刪除，目前的提案是這個樣\n子。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:50.833636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:06.239231+08:00","text":"施政法制業務部分的工作內容涵蓋幾項，第一個是施政及法制業務；第二個是施政報告編印\n，也就是院長到立法院備詢相關報告的編印；第三個是政策及法案的研審。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:06.803333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:24.297586+08:00","text":"行政院有許多的處\n，各處大概就對應各個部會做相關的計畫跟法案的研擬，比方說行政院有經濟處，那他們可能\n就是處理相對應立法院經濟委員會的相關部會等等之類的。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:24.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:33.730000+08:00","text":"第四個工作是派員出國的計畫；第\n五個是公共事務的推展；第六個是法規審查及訴願。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:34.202222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:40.730000+08:00","text":"我也必須補充說明公共事務的推展為什麼會在施政法制業務之下，這其實是有緣由的。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:40.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:55.813333+08:00","text":"2012\n協 2\n年行政院新聞局裁撤之後，2013 年院本部的預算開始編列新聞傳播業務，到 2014 年之後把\n2013 年的部分業務挪編到施政法制的工作項下，這包括哪些呢？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:55.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:00.667500+08:00","text":"包括院長的陳情信箱等等之類\n的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:01.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:32.765714+08:00","text":"第六個是法規審查及訴願的部分，重點是在於憲法第十六條明文保障，也明文規定人民有請\n願、訴願及訴訟之權，這是憲法保障的權利，而這筆預算是行政院訴願委員會它必須接受人民\n訴願的案件，針對訴願的案件，很多其實也是針對政府行政處分的不滿，或者是他需要提起訴\n願而來的。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:33.274118+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:48.585714+08:00","text":"平均一年訴願的案件大概都會超過 2,500 件，2,500 件的背後並不是 2,500 個人，常\n常有一個訴願案背後的訴願人就是上百人，所以其實這個工作是非常沉重的。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:50.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:29.576667+08:00","text":"這裡面的工作還\n包括像院長要下鄉，如果要搭乘行政專機，在機場的保險費用、隨同出勤人員的保險，比方說\n他們在公務旅途當中的誤餐費等等，所以基本上，施政及法制業務 1,437 萬是行政院用在辦理會\n議、審議計畫、處理人民訴願，這是憲法所保障的基本權利，所以希望委員能夠支持施政及法\n制業務，讓行政院的各項工作能夠順利推展。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:29.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:30.660000+08:00","text":"以上報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:31.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:31.785000+08:00","text":"謝謝張秘書長的說明。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:32.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:44.576667+08:00","text":"第 42案改主決議；第 43 案改主決議；第 48案改主決議；第 50案改主決議；第 51案改主決\n議；其餘全數保留。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:44.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:54.920000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 3目「施政推展聯繫」，我們現在減列 553萬 5,000元……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:54.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:57.020000+08:00","text":"不好意思，院長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:57.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:00.170000+08:00","text":"我已經全部保留了，不再發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:00.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:02.220000+08:00","text":"我們請張秘書長表達意見。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:04.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:05.440000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:05.440000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:06.440000+08:00","text":"不好意思，院長，我這邊……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:05.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:07.390000+08:00","text":"我們二輪的時候再說好嗎？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:07.390000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:08.640000+08:00","text":"我們要加快速度。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:08.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:10.862222+08:00","text":"今天這樣的情況就變成只有……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:11.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:15.452500+08:00","text":"是，如果這樣的話，那是不是行政院秘書長也不用說明了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:15.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:19.404706+08:00","text":"我保留二輪的時候可以再進一步精細化好不好？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:19.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:23.473333+08:00","text":"他的意思是，如果只有單方意見，他們會下去剪媒體，只有單方意見，大家都不說\n……","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:23.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:39.440000+08:00","text":"不是這個意思，而是如果等一下還有討論的空間，當然委員可以發言，而且今天是黨團幹部\n會議，李柏毅委員，請容許我提醒大家，我們今天是以黨團幹部會議為主，除了提案委員，既\n然有意見……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:39.440000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:40.440000+08:00","text":"我是召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:39.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:00.709091+08:00","text":"我知道，召委當然可以說明，但是以黨團幹部發言為主，昨天有太多其他非黨團幹部發言，\n造成整個氣氛……大家都知道，所以我今天是以黨團幹部發言為主，但提案委員如果還有刪減\n的可能，當然可以發言，你已經堅持，那我就保留，我們可以往下走，我們有一千三百多個案\n協 3\n子，翁委員。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:00.709091+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:02.720000+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們進入第 3目「施政推展聯繫」……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:02.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:09.608889+08:00","text":"謝謝院長的說明，可是這樣就變成只有張秘書長的說明，都沒有我的說明。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:10.164444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:13.386667+08:00","text":"如果在您說明完，其他委員又接著發言，發言完……","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:13.386667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:15.720000+08:00","text":"有國民黨的說明，我們民進黨也要說明，所以什麼叫做只有你可以說明？","quality":0.103},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:15.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:22.210000+08:00","text":"因為我們還有二輪，在我們二輪的時候就已經去化掉很多案子，然後大家再來表達意見，好\n嗎？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:22.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:23.910000+08:00","text":"院長，我能夠……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:26.167143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:35.087778+08:00","text":"我們在這裡還是在做預算審查，當然院長都有請部會首長做一個說明。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:35.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:50.060000+08:00","text":"包括秘書長也做了說明，至少我們有提案委員、有黨團在這邊，必要時，是不是我們\n可以做精簡的表達或精簡的發言？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:50.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:11.060000+08:00","text":"針對預算能夠彼此做一個討論，我想這也是必要的，如果只\n有單方面都是行政部門的說明，黨團大家都不講話，那就等於單方面的發表意見。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:11.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:13.156154+08:00","text":"陳總召，你現在不是正在講話嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:13.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:15.167143+08:00","text":"喔，對啊，所以我提出建議啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:15.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:17.198889+08:00","text":"黨團幹部只要舉手，隨時都可以講話。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:19.923846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:21.616154+08:00","text":"蔡總召、沛祥書記長，你們隨時可以發言。隨時？好。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:24.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:25.615000+08:00","text":"我已經裁示保留了，大家還有什麼意見？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:27.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:29.070000+08:00","text":"我們現在還有一千三百多個案子。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:31.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:32.136667+08:00","text":"已經照你的意思保留了。","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:32.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:33.303333+08:00","text":"我已經照你的意思保留了，還有什麼意見？","quality":0.353},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:34.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:36.050000+08:00","text":"這個會到底還要不要開了？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:37.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:56.960000+08:00","text":"我已經裁示保留了，\n還有二輪，等到二輪我們去化一大部分之後回過來，大家如果有意見可以繼續表達意見，我們\n先加快速度，對於第一輪達成共識的，我們就把它去化掉了，到第二輪可能保留 500 個、可能\n保留 800 個，大家可以再進一步發言，這個有什麼問題呢？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:56.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:21.278182+08:00","text":"我們現在把所有時間全部省下來，\n包括明天下午要繼續協商，包括禮拜二要繼續協商、禮拜三要繼續協商、禮拜四要繼續協商，\n我們一定要在第一輪大家有一個共識，把一千三百多個案子去化成多少，如果去化成 800 個、\n900個，我們第二輪再來發言，我們預計 8月 7號要全部通過，各位黨團幹部有沒有意見？沒有。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:21.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:23.656667+08:00","text":"如果沒有意見，我們就這樣處理好嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:23.656667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:24.656667+08:00","text":"好，形成共識，尊重院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:24.004286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:28.590000+08:00","text":"黨團幹部隨時可以表達意見，我們是朝野黨團協商嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:29.075714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:30.678889+08:00","text":"委員有意見，我已經把它保留了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:34.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:43.610000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 3目「施政推展聯繫」，減列 553萬 5,000元，廖先翔委員、翁曉玲委員。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:44.777692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:46.316154+08:00","text":"行政院張秘書長，請表達意見。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:46.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:48.070000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:48.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:02.136667+08:00","text":"這個容許我爭取一下，關於第 53 案的施政推展聯繫，去年編列 615 萬\n，被減列 300 萬，今年增編 300 萬其實是回編 300 萬。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:02.755714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:27.253333+08:00","text":"截至目前為止已經執行了 148 萬，所以\n協 4\n如果減列 553 萬的話，等於是減列百分之九十，就只剩下 61.5 萬，已經花了 148 萬，如果現在\n只剩下 61.5 萬，一樣會遇到昨天審院本部出租費用的問題，已經付的應該要如何處理？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:27.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:34.170000+08:00","text":"所以希\n望能夠爭取這個預算，讓相關業務能夠順利推動，以上說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:34.586667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:37.253333+08:00","text":"翁曉玲委員，現在請你發言，你是提案委員。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:38.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:46.550000+08:00","text":"保留百分之九十，進入哪個項目，你知道嗎？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:46.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:50.330000+08:00","text":"第 53案，你是提案的委員。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:03.477143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:40.320000+08:00","text":"針對機要費的部分，主要是犒賞、獎助、慰問等等，這些也是屬於非必要項目，不僅\n是現在政府債臺高築，而且包含整個行政院在很多事項上面、很多業務推動上面，都未盡職守\n，而且讓大家高度質疑他的施政能力，該依法編列的預算、該副署的法律以及該推動的法案，\n到現在為止，行政院壓了一百多個案子，都沒有送到立法院。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:40.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:52.334286+08:00","text":"所以我已經聽了非常多機關，包含司法院及其他院會在內，都對行政院的業務感到非常不滿\n，所以在這邊提出刪減九成，以上。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:53.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:55.305000+08:00","text":"所以你不同意，那我們就保留。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:55.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:57.822857+08:00","text":"第 54案，徐欣瑩凍結百分之十。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:01.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:03.086667+08:00","text":"張秘書長請。謝謝。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:03.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:09.308889+08:00","text":"關於第 53 案，所謂行政院所編的院長機要費，這一筆錢花在哪裡呢？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:09.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:28.220000+08:00","text":"以去\n年為例，其實歷任院長，我想都差不多，去年是慰勉、犒賞保六總隊警官、警員、松山基地指\n揮部辛苦的地勤還有飛官等等，大概都是跟院長維安相關的警察同仁以及院內員工，以上簡單\n說明。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:28.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:30.170000+08:00","text":"好，我們先保留，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:30.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:32.086667+08:00","text":"第 53案保留，第 54案保留。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:32.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:35.086667+08:00","text":"我們進入第 4目「聯合服務業務」。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:39.483333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:41.705556+08:00","text":"王鴻薇委員提議減列 2,813萬。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:42.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:43.350000+08:00","text":"張秘書長請表達意見。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:45.725714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:48:48.315000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，也謝謝王鴻薇委員。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:48:48.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:49:30.190000+08:00","text":"我們在委員會有稍微溝通過，第一個，我必須表達\n，聯合服務中心大概就是中部、雲嘉南、南部、東部、金馬澎服務中心的相關預算，去年在預\n算審查的時候全數被刪除，1 月審查被刪除之後也產生了一些比較不良的後座力，例如終止這些\n聯合服務中心勞務承攬合約大概有 16 個人，影響到 16 個人的生計，經過後來立法院追加 972\n億，讓這 5 個聯合服務中心能夠勉強維持運作。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:49:30.773333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:49:46.413333+08:00","text":"如果照這樣的提案再這樣刪減下去的話，我想\n接下來還有 5個月，一個中心 1個月大概只剩下十六萬多可以花，不到 17萬可以花……","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:49:46.713333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:49:50.380000+08:00","text":"現在還有一個張智倫委員所提的減列 750萬，行政院態度怎麼樣？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:49:50.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:49:54.398182+08:00","text":"我想這些減列都會對 5個聯合服務中心造成影響。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:49:54.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:49:56.398182+08:00","text":"好，麻煩請王鴻薇委員補充說明。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T09:49:59.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:50:41.737778+08:00","text":"主席、各位委員、行政院秘書長及各位官員，關於聯合服務業務，我們在內政委員會\n審查時已有特別說明，因為現在幾個聯合服務中心，第一個，人事酬庸性非常、非常的強，現\n在幾乎所有聯合服務中心，從中部、東部到南部都是酬庸，當民進黨籍的議員選輸了就酬庸到\n聯合服務中心；除了酬庸之外，事實上，他們也參與非常、非常多的政治活動。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T09:50:41.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:51:03.626667+08:00","text":"我舉例來講，\n協 5\n中部聯合服務中心在去年大罷免時全力投入大罷免，當時聯合服務中心的執行長叫莊競程，他\n全力投入大罷免，等到大罷免大失敗之後，他現在投入新竹市市長的選舉。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T09:51:04.237778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:52:18.710000+08:00","text":"我覺得今天這些聯\n合服務中心應該是服務我們的老百姓而不是服務政治人物，不是當他的職務沒有了之後，就把\n他酬庸到聯合服務中心，他等於是把聯合服務中心當做跳板再繼續去選舉，這是其二；第三，\n更離譜的是當莊競程執行長離開之後，現任的執行長陳錦倫原來也是議員，他在落選之後當副\n執行長，因為陳錦倫他還被爆出當年任職經濟部所屬雜糧發展基金會執行長時涉嫌虛報公帑，\n後來他拿自己的錢彌補虛報的公帑及費用，他報公費參加某某會議，結果人家的會議紀錄裡面\n根本沒有這個人出席，竟發生這麼離譜的事情。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T09:52:19.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:52:24.772500+08:00","text":"有關這件人事，其實從我們提出來之後也沒有\n看到行政院有什麼樣的調整。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T09:52:24.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:52:40.560000+08:00","text":"我可以理解聯合服務中心有服務人民的一些項目，但是這些人事\n不管是酬庸、變成選舉跳板或者裡面有藏污納垢，也應該要處理啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T09:52:41.126667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:52:59.793333+08:00","text":"另外，去年聯合服務中心\n的預算原來是全數刪除，後來追加預算時追加了大概九百多萬將近一千萬，所以我針對去年它\n追加預算後的金額繼續保留，這是我的提案。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T09:53:00.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:53:25.745714+08:00","text":"另外，我也在此做個說明，因為我們內政委員會在一輪、二輪都有做一些討論，所以最後這\n個部分我會尊重黨團之間的協調，因為其他的委員也很在乎聯合服務中心，尤其在人事方面，\n所以我做以上的報告及說明。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:53:26.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:53:30.883077+08:00","text":"請等一下，台灣民眾黨黨團提減列 651萬，台灣民眾黨黨團要不要補充意見？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:53:33.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:53:34.380000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:53:34.846667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:53:57.280000+08:00","text":"有關聯合服務中心的業務，剛剛提案委員也有作表達，最重要讓我們\n清楚的看到聯合服務中心就是人事酬庸的單位，這樣的事實我想大家也看得很清楚。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:53:57.913333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:54:21.823333+08:00","text":"在預算方\n面，114 年本來立法院已全數刪除，後來追加了 975 萬預算，最後行政院竟然用第二預備金的方\n式處理 2,162 萬。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:54:22.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:55:06.267778+08:00","text":"基本上去年的預算，從立法院將預算全砍，之後追加了 975 萬，再動用二備金\n2,162 萬，基本上也表達了聯合服務中心在這樣的預算基礎之下就可以運作，所以本黨團對 115\n年所增加的 651 萬 1,000 元提案減列，讓聯合服務中心基本上透過他去年的預算維持基本的運作\n。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:55:10.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:55:19.740000+08:00","text":"張秘書長，現在台灣民眾黨黨團提的 651萬減列的話，就回復到 114年這樣的……行政院能\n不能接受？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:55:21.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:55:40.020000+08:00","text":"跟院長補充三點，如果回到去年 975 萬的話，我們依照目前的執行數，975 萬已經\n花了 552萬，也就是我剛剛講的，如果 5個中心剩下 5個月，一個月只有 16.92萬可以使用，顯\n然是不夠的，這是第一點。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:55:41.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:55:47.300000+08:00","text":"秘書長，你這樣誤導，我們是把 975萬加 2,162萬都給你。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:55:47.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:55:48.300000+08:00","text":"好，不好意思，我剛剛回……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:55:48.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:55:51.936364+08:00","text":"我們只是把額外增加的砍掉而已……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:55:51.936364+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:55:52.936364+08:00","text":"我回應到王委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:55:52.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:55:54.633333+08:00","text":"你不能這樣來誤導……","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:55:55.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:56:03.077778+08:00","text":"王委員所提的是 2,813 萬，台灣民眾黨黨團所提的是 651 萬 1,000 元，我是說這個數字秘書\n長可不可以接受。協 6","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:56:03.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:56:07.100000+08:00","text":"我希望能夠支持行政院的版本，這是第一個。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:56:07.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:56:10.069231+08:00","text":"李柏毅委員請發言，請掌握時間。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-30T09:56:10.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:56:20.168182+08:00","text":"很抱歉，讓韓國瑜院長還在這邊主持，其實這個在內政委員會有相當的進度，甚至王\n鴻薇委員剛剛講的在內政委員會也充分表達過。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-30T09:56:20.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:56:26.168182+08:00","text":"那一天也發現有好幾位內政委員會的委員都擔\n任過議員，包括你跟我。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-30T09:56:26.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:56:52.642500+08:00","text":"議員是最接地氣的，後來張惇涵秘書長還原那天的現場，我們為什麼\n繼續保留的原因，也是覺得後面還有協商，行政院這邊還有其他的預算，所以我們來這邊繼續\n討論，其實當天台灣民眾黨也並沒有在那邊發表任何意見。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-07-30T09:56:53.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:57:47.430000+08:00","text":"我想要講的是中部服務中心、南部\n服務中心跟東部服務中心都有大量的民眾需求，除了需要聯合服務中心的業務之外，現在所刪\n跟凍的，不要忘了，現在已經是 7 月 30 號了，院長，你想要讓它三讀通過的話，可能已經 8 月\n了，也就是說已經過了三分之二了，這些刪減的預算數跟比例，可能都有造成相關的……行政\n院可能要說明一下，你剛剛說每個聯合服務中心只剩下 16 萬可以支用，我算起來其實是不夠的\n，我剛剛算國民黨跟民眾黨刪減的預算，你們花用的甚至可能已經超過了，所以，我想院長還\n是要跟行政院多做協商。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:57:47.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:57:52.306667+08:00","text":"謝謝李柏毅召集委員補充說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:57:52.306667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:57:57.183333+08:00","text":"秘書長，現在台灣民眾黨黨團所提的減列 650 萬 1,000 元，行政院有沒有辦法接受？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:57:57.183333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:58:02.060000+08:00","text":"如果接受\n的話，王鴻薇委員也表達他願意尊重其他政黨。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:58:02.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:58:03.935000+08:00","text":"我想我們可以保留，再做進一步的協商。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:58:04.423636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:58:07.488571+08:00","text":"院長，容許我用一點時間再做一些補充。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:58:08.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:58:54.060000+08:00","text":"第一個就是剛剛王委員提到的莊競程前立委，他是先辭職才投入罷免活動，這是第\n一個補充；第二個補充是國民黨黨團的提案有提到，剛剛王鴻薇委員有提到這些人都是酬庸，\n我可能念幾個人名，也許是院長的老朋友，也許是在座委員的老朋友，像陳志彬、侯惠仙，他\n們都當過國民黨的委員，包括羅世雄、江玲君也都是國民黨的委員，還包括我上次提到過的張\n麗善縣長、高揚昇前立委等等，他們也都當過聯合服務中心的執行長或副執行長，所以我想我\n們不要雙標，謝謝院長。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:58:55.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:59:00.774286+08:00","text":"好，第 58案改主決議、第 61案改主決議，其他就保留。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:59:01.631429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:59:12.837778+08:00","text":"現在進行第 5 目「災害防救及國土安全」，台灣民眾黨黨團提議凍結 500 萬，先請張秘書長\n說明，台灣民眾黨黨團請準備。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:59:16.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:59:48.210000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長，謝謝台灣民眾黨黨團沒有對災防業務做刪減，我認為跨機關通訊整\n合指揮架構的精進計畫，又或者是落實資安風險的計畫，對於災防業務確實都是相當重要的，\n災防業務可能連一天都沒辦法凍結，現在也是防汛期間，建請三個黨團改成主決議，但是報告\n我們一樣會交？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T09:59:48.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:59:49.910000+08:00","text":"以上說明。謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:59:50.620526+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:59:52.304737+08:00","text":"請提案黨團台灣民眾黨黨團表達意見。協 7","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:59:53.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:59:54.290000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T09:59:55.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:00:37.867778+08:00","text":"剛剛張秘書長也提到災防的重點，我們會提這個案子，最主要是臺北市\n1219 的攻擊事件，上一次那個事件凸顯出在臺北車站，其實不只是臺北車站，包括南港、板橋\n、中部的烏日、南部的左營，這種大型共構車站的地下街存在著通訊死角，從事件當中我們也\n發覺到，這是很重要而要立即去改善處理的案子。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:00:38.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:03.590000+08:00","text":"在這裡我們提出凍結案，並不是刪減預算，\n我們希望，就這樣的一個事件，發覺到我們在通訊救災的安全、介面聯繫上產生這麼大的死角\n跟漏洞，應該要趕快把它補齊、建置。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:04.397692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:19.804286+08:00","text":"本黨團提出了一個凍結案，目的是要行政機關、相關跨\n部會在行政院的統籌之下，能夠立即補足這個缺口。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:20.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:23.840000+08:00","text":"所以我們提出凍結案，只要行政院……","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:24.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:29.890000+08:00","text":"陳總召，容我提醒你一下，你有兩個凍結案，你後面還有一個凍結 236 萬。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:30.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:33.690000+08:00","text":"你是以凍結 500\n萬為主，還是凍結 236萬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:33.690000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:37.005000+08:00","text":"兩案併凍……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:37.005000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:40.320000+08:00","text":"你凍結 236萬，我就要問行政院張秘書長能不能接受。","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:40.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:42.097778+08:00","text":"那我們就達成共識了……好。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:42.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:01:56.563333+08:00","text":"凍結改書面，OK，兩個案子一同做書面報告，凍結案解凍……500 萬啦！","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:01:56.563333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:00.970000+08:00","text":"第 62 案是\n500萬。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:00.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:10.720000+08:00","text":"不是，你第 64案是 23萬，是針對同一個預算案，所以你有兩個數字，不同的理由，我知道\n。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:10.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:14.684286+08:00","text":"我的意思是，如果你同意是第 64案的 236萬，我就要問張秘書長，可以……","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:15.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:16.570000+08:00","text":"統一凍結 500萬。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:16.570000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:20.300000+08:00","text":"就是這一目……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:20.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:21.633333+08:00","text":"可以啊！併凍……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:21.633333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:25.830000+08:00","text":"併凍 500萬，一次說明就好了。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:25.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:29.430000+08:00","text":"現在已經 8月了，這是防災耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:29.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:30.430000+08:00","text":"……併凍……書面嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:30.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:31.430000+08:00","text":"兩案併凍……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:31.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:31.430000+08:00","text":"兩案併凍 500萬。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:31.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:32.430000+08:00","text":"併凍 500萬，然後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:31.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:33.830000+08:00","text":"就是第 62案、第 64案併凍……第 64案……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:33.830000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:35.296667+08:00","text":"那就併凍 236萬啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:35.296667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:36.763333+08:00","text":"因為現在 8月了，這是防災耶！","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:36.763333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:38.230000+08:00","text":"很重要。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:38.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:38.496667+08:00","text":"併凍 500萬，然後提書面。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:38.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:39.696667+08:00","text":"張秘書長，請表達意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:39.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:41.663333+08:00","text":"院長跟陳總召，可不可以拜託？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:41.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:43.544286+08:00","text":"因為防汛很重要。對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:43.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:47.258571+08:00","text":"可不可以兩案併凍 236萬，然後我們交書面報告後解凍，好不好？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:47.401429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:47.687143+08:00","text":"這樣子好不好？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:47.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:51.496667+08:00","text":"我們照第 64案凍 236萬，然後交書面……\n協 8OK。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:52.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:54.530000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳總召。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:56.953333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:02:58.420000+08:00","text":"62 案跟第 64 案併凍。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:02:59.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:03:07.286667+08:00","text":"第 63 案黃仁委員所提的改主決議，凍結 236 萬 3,000 元，改書面，\n好不好？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:03:07.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:03:08.953333+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:03:10.081538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:03:11.466154+08:00","text":"進入第 7 目「消保及食安業務」。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:03:13.367143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:03:18.287778+08:00","text":"許宇甄委員所提減列 339 萬，請張秘書長表達意見。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:03:18.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:03:25.047778+08:00","text":"許宇\n甄委員先發言也可以。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T10:03:25.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:03:27.470000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T10:03:28.541429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:03:39.970000+08:00","text":"針對這一案，主要是因為在 115年行政院增加的「消保及食安業務」的經\n費編列比 114年增加了 339萬 2,000元。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T10:03:42.303333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:03:57.747778+08:00","text":"當然行政院食安辦的業務主要是負責統籌食安政策、整\n合中央跟地方權責機關，以及督促食安風險預警、跨部會聯合稽查、食品雲的勾稽及問題產品\n回收等等。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T10:03:57.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:04:11.836667+08:00","text":"但中聯油脂的致癌油事件發生到現在，我們發覺它並不是由政府主動發現，而是由\n下游業者自主檢驗後才逐步揭露，顯示行政院所建置的食安防線沒有辦法即時發揮作用。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T10:04:13.303333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:04:23.770000+08:00","text":"我們\n認為食安辦在這個部分有明顯的缺失，還有很多的問題，所以我提出減列，就是今年度增加的\n339萬 2,000元。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T10:04:23.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:04:25.470000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:04:26.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:04:27.720000+08:00","text":"張秘書長請稍待。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:04:28.192222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:04:33.303333+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨黨團就同一案是全數凍結，陳總召，你們有沒有要補充？","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:04:34.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:04:40.910000+08:00","text":"許宇甄委員是減列 339\n萬，你們是全數凍結，請你補充一下，好嗎？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:04:41.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:04:43.060000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:04:43.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:04:49.360000+08:00","text":"食安的部分，我想這一次的毒油事件，全國人民也看得很清楚。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:04:50.226667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:05:08.960000+08:00","text":"我們\n身為立法委員，行政院面對食安問題表現得荒腔走板，我們都看到了，所以才會針對這個業務\n1,432 萬的預算提案全數凍結。","quality":0.451},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:05:09.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:05:45.074286+08:00","text":"我們的目的很簡單，就是有關食安，我們必須要求行政院全力做\n好這個業務，我們凍結預算是要逼行政院真的能用最快的速度、最嚴謹、最負責任的方式來保\n障全國人民的食品安全，也希望透過我們的凍結，能夠督促行政院立刻有效執行。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:05:46.026667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:05:49.074286+08:00","text":"這個部分請\n院長支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:05:51.232222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:00.760000+08:00","text":"現在台灣民眾黨黨團許忠信委員又提了一個案子要凍結 10%（143 萬），陳總召能不能釐清\n一下？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:01.625714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:03.054286+08:00","text":"貴黨有 2個提案。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:03.521818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:12.340000+08:00","text":"我尊重我們許忠信委員的提案，但是我們黨團已經形成共識……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:13.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:15.173333+08:00","text":"你們還有一個邱慧洳委員的提案。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:15.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:19.140000+08:00","text":"對，我們就依黨團的提案併案全數凍結。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:23.961429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:27.167778+08:00","text":"你的意思就是全數凍結，貴黨已經形成共識了？是。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:27.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:27.834444+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:29.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:35.140000+08:00","text":"許宇甄委員提案減列 339萬，台灣民眾黨黨團提案全數凍結，請行政院表達意見\n。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:35.612222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:37.556667+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，謝謝各位委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:37.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:06:39.790000+08:00","text":"第一個，我先跟陳總召說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:06:41.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:07:11.140000+08:00","text":"可惜今天邱慧洳委員沒有\n來，因為我昨天批了一個公文，是邱慧洳委員國會辦公室之前有要求行政院消保處就三益海棠\n公司歐耐恩牙套的消費爭議，希望行政院消保處協請地方消保官進行團體訴訟，也要求行政院\n協 9\n在 7 月 30 日以前回復，昨天公文已經批了，我藉這個機會跟大家報告，有意願參與團體訴訟的\n人數 22 個縣市總共有 377 個人。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:07:11.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:07:27.223333+08:00","text":"我講這個的原因就是，接下來還有很多消保業務要進行，如果\n照剛剛陳總召所說的，把食安及消保業務的預算全數凍結的話，是否連邱慧洳委員提案希望行\n政院做該做的事情都沒有辦法做？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:07:27.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:07:30.278889+08:00","text":"所以是不是請委員能夠再思考、再三思一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:07:30.723333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:07:49.140000+08:00","text":"第二個，針對這次中聯油品的事件，很清楚地可以知道是 5 月 13 日南僑公司自主驗出來之後\n，並沒有在第一時間通報地方主管機關或中央主管機關，導致廠商隱匿了一個多月的時間所造\n成的後續事件。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:07:49.556667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:08:12.466923+08:00","text":"食安五環當中有一個非常重要的地方，就是中央、地方要聯合稽查，一起合作\n，事情到目前為止，科學的調查報告也出來了，很簡單，該釐清真相就釐清真相，該究責就究\n責，該修法就修法，該下架就下架，我想我們的立場就是這個樣子，也希望朝野能夠一起合作\n，中央、地方一起合作。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:08:12.620769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:08:18.844545+08:00","text":"所以我希望能夠把食安及消保業務的預算保留下來，讓我們繼續執行。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:08:19.026364+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:08:45.104286+08:00","text":"因為接下來秋天快到\n了，我們還有牡蠣等檢驗計畫必須執行，消保處還有包括很多外送員所在乎的定型化契約在著\n手進行當中，如果這個時候刪除或凍結相關預算的話，恐怕會影響到後續的相關業務，所以希\n望委員能夠支持消保及食安的業務和預算。謝謝。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:08:54.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:09:01.408182+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨黨團陳總召，第 65 案到第 71 案你們還有一個邱慧洳委員凍結 20%的第 71 案，\n還有一個第 69案是邱慧洳委員要求凍結 10%，你們是否考量併凍，還是就只有一個全數凍結？","quality":0.338},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:09:01.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:09:02.090000+08:00","text":"考量併凍？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:09:03.756667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:09:17.190000+08:00","text":"好，這個部分只要行政院儘速提出報告，讓我們瞭解行政院如何積極地去處理全國人\n民關心的食安問題，我們就解凍啊！","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:09:17.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:09:19.304286+08:00","text":"所以就併案全凍！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:09:24.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:09:36.560000+08:00","text":"院長，我補充說明一下，我剛剛一開始提的邱慧洳委員辦公室希望我們消保處協調\n的事情，就是邱委員所提的第 69案的內容……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:09:36.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:09:40.760000+08:00","text":"所以是否能夠併案凍結 10%，我們趕快交報告？拜託！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:09:41.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:09:42.835000+08:00","text":"請范雲委員發言，請簡短扼要，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:09:42.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:10:35.960000+08:00","text":"我想剛剛張秘書長都有講，該究責就究責、該修法就修法，可是剛剛幾位提案委員所說\n的，我覺得相當不公平，我們今天先不要在這裡究責，剛剛已經講了，現在消保業務正在處理\n消費者的訴訟，民眾黨的立委還要求消保處要進行，而且剛剛有談到，現在是 7 月要 8 月了，\n還有很多像牡蠣的檢測，我們從最近的資訊都看到，地方政府該檢測沒去檢測，真正有檢測，\n很多時候是中央發動的專案檢測，可是依食安法明明檢測的權限是在地方，所以這個部分，所\n有該守法的公務員，你把他的經費刪掉，你這樣到底是對民眾不利，還是在進行一種政治的卸\n責呢？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:10:36.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:10:48.232727+08:00","text":"我們要幫行政院講話，這個是團體訴訟跟消保業務，還有 8 月之後有很多重要的工作要\n做，請不要在這裡全數凍結，也拜託民眾黨，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:10:48.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:10:57.505455+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員的發言，報告各位黨團幹部還有行政部門，第 67案改主決議，第 70案改主決\n議，其餘保留。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:10:58.050909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:11:04.737778+08:00","text":"協 10\n進行第 9目「新聞傳播業務」，國民黨黨團翁曉玲委員全數減列，請表達意見。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T10:11:09.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:11:40.210000+08:00","text":"在過去以及現在其實行政院的新聞傳播，發言人很多的發言基本上都很不恰當，而且\n都傳播一些錯誤的訊息，所以本席認為新聞傳播根本沒有傳達公正客觀的政策訊息、業務訊息\n，反而是成為民進黨宣傳的工具，所以我認為新聞傳播業務已經是怠忽職守、尸位素餐，因此\n全數刪除經費，本席堅持，謝謝。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:11:40.210000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:11:41.210000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:11:40.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:11:43.737778+08:00","text":"請王鴻薇委員發言，台灣民眾黨黨團請準備。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:11:44.785714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:11:48.277778+08:00","text":"王鴻薇委員提的第 73 案是全數減列，請表達意\n見。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:11:48.277778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:12:14.500000+08:00","text":"對，有關於媒宣費的部分，確實行政院在一些行政上面，其實有很多真的是違法亂政\n，包含不副署、不執行，然後你做這些宣傳其實就是攻擊在野黨。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:12:14.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:12:32.055556+08:00","text":"容我花一點點時間，我們現\n在在審查預算，其實大家也可以看到我們的主席還有黨團幹部現在都在，大家很認真在審查預\n算，但是最近這些行政官員發言攻擊在野黨，發言之火力真的已經比我對面的幾位委員都還要\n兇。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:12:32.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:12:44.214286+08:00","text":"比如昨天徐佳青委員長針對民眾黨質疑他們的報告，他竟然可以嗤之以鼻，講出：你不會\n當立委，我來教你當立委。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:12:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:12:58.250000+08:00","text":"比如陸委會的主委，在我們現在審查預算的同時，他有時間去發\nThreads、去發臉書，然後繼續的攻擊立法院，針對立法院的審查預算在攻擊。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:12:59.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:13:28.380000+08:00","text":"院長、主席，其實我們很希望這整個能夠繼續推進，但是如果今天的行政院跟這些行政首長\n是用這種態度來針對預算的審查，我覺得這讓我們在行使憲法賦予我們的職權以及義務的時候\n，還要被這些行政官員們以高傲、傲慢的態度攻擊。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:13:29.723333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:13:35.167778+08:00","text":"我想秘書長在這邊，你們可不可以回去看\n一看徐佳青的那一段影片？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:13:35.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:13:43.167778+08:00","text":"看他是怎麼攻擊民眾黨的議員，說他們不會當立委，他要來教他們\n怎麼當立委，還嗤之以鼻。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:13:43.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:13:47.140000+08:00","text":"有哪一屆的行政院或行政首長是這樣？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:13:47.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:13:54.056667+08:00","text":"我想大家也都當過地方議員\n，不管是誰在吵、誰在演，沒有看過這樣的態度。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:13:54.723333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:14:17.532857+08:00","text":"我覺得在審查預算的同時，我們都是非常理\n性的來告訴大家為什麼要刪除預算，也讓行政院能夠有充分說明的機會，我看到院長也給行政\n院非常多的說明機會，結果你們在場外搞一堆的戰場，我覺得真的非常無助於現在整個預算的\n審查，以上，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:14:17.675714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:14:22.390000+08:00","text":"翁曉玲委員，麻煩你把麥克風壓低一點，我看不到王鴻薇委員的臉，謝謝。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:14:23.675714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:14:29.223333+08:00","text":"接下來因為這邊數字有點不太一樣，在民眾黨發言之前，容我提醒一下各位黨團幹部。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:14:31.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:15:04.720000+08:00","text":"國民\n黨黨團、林沛祥委員是提減列 2,600 萬；台灣民眾黨黨團是減列 4,239 萬；翁曉玲委員跟王鴻薇\n是全數減列；國民黨黨團還有提了一個案是凍結 10%，525 萬；黃仁委員已經改為主決議；張宏\n陸委員也改為主決議，像這樣的一個狀態，數字是不太一樣，有兩位委員要求全數減列，和林\n沛祥委員有點不一樣。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:15:05.427692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:15:11.002353+08:00","text":"我們請台灣民眾黨黨團發言，完畢之後，請林沛祥委員發言；林沛祥委員發言完之後，請莊\n瑞雄委員發言。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:15:11.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:15:15.246667+08:00","text":"好，請台灣民眾黨黨團表達意見，你們是減列 4,239萬。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:15:18.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:16:29.120000+08:00","text":"有關於新聞傳播業務，過去我們看到行政院，尤其是發言人，真的對我們在野黨的任\n何一個建議或是政策的倡導多有指教，也做了很多可能在訊息上有誤導的情況，何況就誠如剛\n協 11\n剛王委員提到的，我覺得行政院還有各部會首長，常常針對我們在野黨開闢戰場，像前天我們\n黨團召開考察相關記者會，是希望行政部門能夠善用考察預算，好好的到國外擷取經驗，把好\n的經驗帶回臺灣，讓我們的政策更好。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:16:30.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:19.470000+08:00","text":"我們的用意很單純，但是部會首長一定要把它扭曲成是\n我們不知實際情況，甚至扯到機密跟中共、大陸有關等等，我覺得行政院及各部會首長的媒體\n發表常常都在誤導，讓我們在野黨真正的善意督導和提醒被抹黑，在這樣的情形之下，我們也\n提出減列預算的建議。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:20.636667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:37.860000+08:00","text":"這部分的預算數是 5,254 萬 7,000 元，我們並沒有要全數減列，我們是減\n列 4,239萬 5,000元，這個部分本黨團非常堅持，跟院長報告。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:37.860000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:38.860000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝陳總召。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:38.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:42.010000+08:00","text":"請林沛祥委員發言，莊瑞雄委員請準備。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:42.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:44.117143+08:00","text":"所有國民黨黨團的案子全部併案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:44.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:46.482222+08:00","text":"全部併案，好的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:46.704444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:48.037778+08:00","text":"好，謝謝林沛祥委員。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:48.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:50.126667+08:00","text":"莊瑞雄委員發言完畢後，請張秘書長。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:51.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:17:52.990000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:17:53.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:18:13.356667+08:00","text":"有關媒宣費用，我相信各位協商代表有很多是從地方議會來的，大家\n都非常清楚，一筆預算編列下去以後，第一個是要看到底有沒有必要性；第二個，我看大家第\n一個問的都是去年執行率多少。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:18:15.853636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:18:35.310000+08:00","text":"從今天的提案大家就可以很清楚看到，其實都不是在講去年執\n行率多少，然後哪一些計畫是重複的，而是充斥著形容詞，甚至提到去年 114年已經全部都刪除\n了，所以 115年我也要全部再刪除！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:18:35.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:18:37.587778+08:00","text":"這怎麼是在審預算呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:18:37.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:19:05.476667+08:00","text":"實在是……我希望朝野協商代表是不\n是可以再考慮一下，很多預算到底是不是有其必要性，各機關都有他們相關的業務，而不是流\n於政治口號，或者是對哪一個首長不滿，甚至是質疑有人在離職以後為什麼還可以投入哪些工\n作等等，這跟整個預算的審查已經都失去了關聯性。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:19:05.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:19:33.365556+08:00","text":"請大家再考慮一下，我相信你們在地方審\n預算的時候也不是這樣審，可是在到了中央以後，大家只是因為政治立場不同，就對於整個行\n政部門所提出來的預算，連它的必要性、執行率，這個計畫是否有必要去做，或者有沒有重複\n等，全部都沒有看到專業的審查，全部都充滿了政治性、個人情緒性、報復性的審查，這樣可\n能比較不好。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:19:33.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:19:39.667143+08:00","text":"我還是期待朝野協商能夠針對整個預算審查，讓行政部門有辦法去完成。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:19:39.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:19:44.810000+08:00","text":"至於對\n個別首長有所不滿的部分，應該是機要費的問題，以上。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:19:45.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:19:47.610000+08:00","text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:19:47.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:19:49.643333+08:00","text":"我們請張秘書長表達意見，謝謝。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:19:49.976667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:19:51.476667+08:00","text":"謝謝院長、謝謝各位委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:19:51.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:20:20.010000+08:00","text":"首先我必須要表達，誠如我一開始所報告的，行政院新\n聞局是 2012 年裁撤的，2013 年開始有新聞傳播業務的預算，而 2013 年那一年新聞傳播的預算\n是 9,466 萬，整體行政院的媒宣費是 4,734 萬，今年行政院編列的「新聞傳播業務」是 5,254 萬\n，媒宣費總共是 1,678 萬。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:20:21.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:20:43.264286+08:00","text":"時隔 13 年，13 年前的基本工資是 109 塊，月薪不到 2 萬塊，現在的\n月薪已經有 2 萬 9,500 元，過了 13 年行政院編的預算大概也只有 2013 年的一半，而 2013 年那\n個時候的行政院發言人正是鄭麗文主席，這是第一個要強調的。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:20:43.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:20:48.007778+08:00","text":"第二個，這一筆 5,254 萬當中，並不是全部都是媒宣費。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:20:50.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:21:00.791429+08:00","text":"就我剛剛所報告的，行政院的媒宣費\n總共也才 1,678 萬，所以如果 5,254 萬全部都刪除的話，會刪除到哪些部分呢？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:21:01.077143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:21:27.997778+08:00","text":"就像昨天大家也\n協 12\n許講到氣氛不好的約用人員薪水，在這個計畫裡面就包含了 8 名約用人員的薪水，就因為去年\n全數被刪除，所以才有我昨天所報告的，我們必須先把這些約用人員解聘再跟行政院人事總處\n要求聘用員額，然後我們再去把他聘回來，這是很複雜而且不應該出現的不正常狀況。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:21:28.442222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:21:40.020000+08:00","text":"同時也\n包括新聞傳播處的水電費、國內旅費，包括輿情蒐報的系統等等，並不全部都是媒宣費。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:21:40.486667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:21:43.934286+08:00","text":"針對媒宣費的部分昨天院長已經指示了，就是要通案處理。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:21:44.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:22:06.765455+08:00","text":"我要拜託院長，行政院新聞傳播\n處有 67 位同仁，他們需要基本的工作維持，所以我要向國民黨黨團報告，在 67 位同仁裡面有\n超過一半也就是有 34 位同仁當年也跟鄭麗文主席一起共事過，所以可不可以不要全部刪除，讓\n行政院新聞傳播處的工作同仁能夠有可以滿足基本需求的工作？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:22:07.492727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:22:08.038182+08:00","text":"以上說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:22:08.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:22:09.997778+08:00","text":"謝謝張秘書長的補充說明。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:22:10.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:22:25.886667+08:00","text":"第 9 目「新聞傳播業務」，第 78 案黃仁委員所提改主決議，第 79 案張宏陸委員所提改主決\n議，第 80案林沛祥委員所提我們併通案辦理，其餘全部保留。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:22:26.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:22:29.934286+08:00","text":"我們進入第 10目「人權及轉型正義」。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:22:30.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:22:42.390000+08:00","text":"廖先翔、翁曉玲委員所提全數減列 1,315 萬，林沛祥委員所提減列 650 萬。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:22:42.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:22:46.723333+08:00","text":"林沛祥委員一樣要\n併入翁曉玲委員的提案嗎？對。好。","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:22:46.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:22:57.730000+08:00","text":"王安祥委員凍結 200萬，然後徐欣瑩委員凍結 5%，張宏陸委員改為主決議。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:22:58.501429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:23:03.707778+08:00","text":"翁曉玲委員表達完意見之後，台灣民眾黨黨團請準備。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T10:23:03.707778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:23:06.602353+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T10:23:06.602353+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:23:10.577143+08:00","text":"有關人權及轉型正義的業務，本席認為這筆預算應該全數刪除。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T10:23:10.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:23:26.434286+08:00","text":"我們知道\n其實人權及轉型業務最重要的就是要能夠捍衛我們國民的權利，但是我們也知道現在我們立法\n院三讀通過要給軍人的加給、要維護軍人薪資待遇的這些權利，行政院沒有做到。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T10:23:27.027692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:23:37.520000+08:00","text":"對於我們通過的很多法律案，行政院院長不副署、賴清德不公告，這都涉及到媒體業者的權\n利，其中還包括老舊眷村住民的一些權利。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T10:23:37.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:23:43.566154+08:00","text":"當這些對他們最重要的人權事項都沒有捍衛到，為\n什麼要給他們業務經費？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T10:23:43.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:23:48.206667+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊還是堅持全數刪除。以上。謝謝。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:23:49.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:23:58.340000+08:00","text":"第 93 案已經改為主決議，第 94 案改為主決議，這是廖先翔委員的，第 93 案是王美\n惠委員的，林沛祥委員的第 95案是併通案。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:23:59.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:24:09.537778+08:00","text":"在台灣民眾黨黨團表達完意見之後換范雲委員表達，在范雲委員表達完之後請張秘書長表達\n，好不好？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:24:12.112941+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:24:15.617143+08:00","text":"接下來我們請王安祥委員表達意見，范雲委員請準備。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:24:15.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:24:27.510000+08:00","text":"主席，台灣民眾黨的這幾個案子都是我提的，基本上我提的案子大家可以看到，主要\n就是集中在人權的這個部分。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:24:28.465882+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:24:42.617143+08:00","text":"我昨天主持修憲委員會的時候也有很多與會的學者非常重視這個事情，基本上，我的這幾個\n案子都涉及到我們的漁業，也就是漁業的人權跟漁撈公約施行法，現在它還在行政院。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:24:42.926667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:24:48.529231+08:00","text":"另外就\n是我們希望跟這次 ART 有關的部分能夠做一些盡職調查。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:24:48.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:24:59.606154+08:00","text":"那天副秘書長有來跟我說明，他也允\n諾在今年年底就會有一些具體的進展，所以那天我也答應這 3案都改為主決議，以上。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:25:00.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:25:08.465882+08:00","text":"謝謝，第 87案、第 88案、第 89案台灣民眾黨黨團王安祥委員已經改為主決議。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:25:08.902857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:25:10.617143+08:00","text":"協 13\n范雲委員請發言，張秘書長請準備。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:25:12.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:25:36.200000+08:00","text":"我想針對廖先翔委員要把人權處一千多萬的經費全數減列，我真的要拜託不要這樣做，\n我先唸一段話給大家聽，「捍衛民主與人權的工作，永遠值得被支持、被記住、被延續，期許\n大家一起繼續努力」，院長應該覺得這個很熟悉吧？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:25:36.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:25:51.916667+08:00","text":"這是立法院的新聞稿，是我們韓院長出席\n2025 年亞洲民主人權獎，頒獎給來自印尼為弱勢人權的工作者，他講的話非常好，而且這是我\n們立法院發出的新聞稿。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:25:52.722727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:26:02.183333+08:00","text":"我想在我們院長主持下，人權處的經費全數被刪減，我真的覺得很不\n給我們韓院長面子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:26:02.592857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:26:16.350000+08:00","text":"我也要講一下，其實這個人權處有一個很重要的工作是國際人權的交流，最近院長還是江副\n院長接見的時候，其實民眾黨的立委也有出席，為什麼會有這個業務？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:26:16.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:26:33.164286+08:00","text":"其實人權處的工作就是\n過去我們簽署了很多的公約，他必須要找聯合國相關的審查委員來這裡，這都是人權處的業務\n，讓我們的部會跟立委、NGO有機會能夠交流、接軌國際。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:26:33.664286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:26:39.200000+08:00","text":"我要提醒在場的藍營立委，這些國際人權公約是誰簽的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:26:39.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:27:16.283333+08:00","text":"其實主要都是在 2008 年跟 2016 年\n馬總統簽署的，最重要的三大聯合國公約，其中婦女人權公約也就是 CEDAW 的審查委員團最\n近來見藍白的立委，還有兒童，還有身障者的公約，不僅是在馬總統任內簽署最多，而且也是\n在藍營是國會多數的時候國內法化，所以我覺得全數減列人權處的經費，然後理由是針對軍人\n法案的部分做政治報復，結果兒童的人權、身障者的人權還有婦女人權的接軌工作全數都被刪\n除。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T10:27:16.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:27:48.950000+08:00","text":"我真的覺得，如果馬總統看到的話，他也會很傷心、很難過，因為你們等於是打臉馬總統\n，把他重要的人權貢獻全數銷毀，所以真的拜託藍營委員，不要因為軍人這個正在釋憲中的法\n案傷害我們韓院長，讓他覺得很沒有尊嚴，他有講過這些話，然後在他主持下人權處的經費被\n你們都刪減，也不要傷害馬總統簽署這麼多國際公約的貢獻，以上。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:27:50.786667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:27:52.386667+08:00","text":"范雲委員，我被你講得臉一陣紅一陣白的。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:27:54.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:27:55.133333+08:00","text":"請張秘書長表達意見。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:27:56.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:27:57.180000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:27:57.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:28:05.180000+08:00","text":"首先謝謝王安祥委員改主決議的部分，國際漁權或者是人權的部分當然\n我們是非常重視。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:28:05.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:28:16.072308+08:00","text":"第二個，我也要跟翁委員報告，剛剛您所提的這些東西其實都不是人權處的\n業務範圍，人權處今年最主要的工作是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:28:16.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:28:30.068182+08:00","text":"是 2022 到 2024 的國家人權行動計畫已經屆滿了\n，所以人權處從去年到今年一整年都在籌擬、籌編最新的國家人權行動計畫，這是非常重要的\n工作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:28:30.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:28:40.035714+08:00","text":"第二，人權處今年也非常專注在處理一件立法院各黨團也高度重視的事情，就是反歧視\n法相關的法制作業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:28:40.416667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:28:55+08:00","text":"第三，誠如剛剛范雲委員所講的，針對臺灣與其他國家締結的公約或者是\n人權法案的落實，這也是人權處相當關注的重點，以及臺灣的國家人權指標、人權影響評估等\n等。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:28:55.416667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:29:02.942308+08:00","text":"更重要的是，有一點點跟韓院長擔任民主基金會董事長有關的，就是跟國際人權團體來進\n行對話。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:29:03.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:29:24.125000+08:00","text":"比方說，今年我們就跟韓國簽訂了相關合作的 MOU 等等，所以我相信韓院長如果哪一\n天接見了其他國家的人權團體，這些團體多半也會來見行政院人權處，在那些團體跟韓院長說\n要見人權處的時候，韓院長總不好跟他說，不好意思，預算全部被立法院刪除了，應該不是這\n樣的狀況。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:29:24.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:30:02.050000+08:00","text":"最後補充一點，謝謝翁曉玲委員在內政委員會的時候曾經討論過，人權處去年的預算並沒有\n協 14\n被全數減列，所以今年當然是依照分配數依法執行，5 月的時候人權處已經去參加了臺歐盟人權\n對話，好像翁委員原本想要把全數減列改主決議，如果翁委員願意主決議，行政院非常感謝，\n既然這筆錢沒有刪掉的話，人權及轉型正義處的預算也就不需要全數減列，是否能夠再進行第\n二輪協商，大家來尋找共識？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:30:02.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:30:03+08:00","text":"以上補充。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T10:30:03.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:30:04.050000+08:00","text":"不可能！謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:30:06.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:30:13.360000+08:00","text":"第 10目「人權及轉型正義」第 86案黃仁委員所提改主決議。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:30:13.360000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:30:15.205455+08:00","text":"第 87案、第 88案、第 89案改主決議。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:30:15.205455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:30:16.478182+08:00","text":"第 93案王美惠委員所提改主決議。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:30:25.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:30:31.387273+08:00","text":"第 94案廖先翔委員、翁曉玲委員所提改主決議。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:30:31.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:30:37.410000+08:00","text":"第 95案林沛祥委員所提併通案辦理，其餘保留。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:30:37.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:31:08.990000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 11 目「個資保護委員會籌備業務」，台灣民眾黨黨團提議全數凍結，許宇甄委員\n提改主決議，洪毓祥委員提凍結 100 萬元，廖先翔、翁曉玲委員提案併通案辦理，第 100 案也\n是併通案辦理，現在請台灣民眾黨黨團針對全數凍結 1億 5,327萬元表達意見。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:31:14.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:31:44.663333+08:00","text":"第 96案及第 98案我們就是併凍，主要的理由在於數位身分證從 110年開始就已經宣\n告暫緩，除了之前花了 10 億之外，政府還要耗費 2.8 億去支付調解金，甚至內政部 115 年度預\n算還編列高達 4,875 萬用在中央印製廠閒置設備的維護。","quality":0.782},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:31:44.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:32:09.730000+08:00","text":"這項政策已經停擺逾五年，根據憲法法\n庭 111年判例指出，這是由於個資法制未完備，所以我們也希望儘速成立個人資料保護委員會，\n但是內政部一直拖延、沒有辦法排案，所以個人資料保護委員會組織法草案還是沒有辦法三讀\n通過，就一直擱置在這邊。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:32:09.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:32:33.444286+08:00","text":"另外，既然是個資，就立法委員的索資，以我自己為例，5 月 28 號、29 號我針對無人機載具\n索資，根據公共工程委員會採購指引的內容去索資，到現在還不給我就算了，竟然還放給自由\n時報！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:32:34.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:32:45.067778+08:00","text":"這個東西你放了也就算了，不管做什麼用途，但你還把同仁的個資完全攤在報紙底下，\n這不是嚴重違反個資嗎？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:32:45.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:32:48.336667+08:00","text":"到現在也沒有跟我說明，我非常生氣！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:32:49.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:32:55.887778+08:00","text":"所以我主張併凍，就是以第 96\n案全數凍結的經費為主。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:32:57.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:33:00.581429+08:00","text":"您不是說第 96案和第 98案凍結 100萬嗎？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:33:01.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:33:10.010000+08:00","text":"不是，凍第 96案的這個，第 98案併入第 96案。堅持！","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:33:12.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:33:15.883333+08:00","text":"好的，麻煩請張秘書長表達一下意見。謝謝。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:33:16.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:33:42.300000+08:00","text":"第一個要拜託韓院長跟朝野各黨團，個資會依照憲法法庭的判決應該要在\n2025年 8月成立，行政院是在 2025年 3月將個資會組織法送到立法院，經過了委員會的審查，\n去年 6 月 24 號曾經召開過黨團協商，到目前為止沒有進度，所以可能要拜託院長跟朝野黨團能\n夠加速來進行。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:33:42.883333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:34:02.350000+08:00","text":"第二個，依照預算法，今年個資會可以執行的法定預算數是 1.53 億，同樣現在\n已經 7 月了，年已經過了一半，執行也超過了 7,700 萬，所以現在如果全數凍結的話，已經付出\n去的七千七百多萬應該怎麼辦？","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"張秘書長惇涵","start":"2026-07-30T10:34:02.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:34:21.300000+08:00","text":"所以是否能夠請民眾黨黨團思考與幫忙，第 96 案跟第 98 案可\n協 15\n以合併凍結，但是不要凍全部，不然付出去的七千七百多萬不知道該如何處理，以上說明。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:34:21.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:34:22.350000+08:00","text":"謝謝張秘書長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:34:22.835714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:34:31.335714+08:00","text":"陳清龍總召，張秘書長的意思是到 7 月份他們已經執行的金額大概 60%左右，有沒有辦法改\n為凍結的數字縮小？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:34:31.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:34:32.350000+08:00","text":"請表達意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:34:33.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:34:39.080000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，剛剛洪毓祥委員也有提案說明，包括索資的部分。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T10:34:40.253077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:35:13.687143+08:00","text":"關於數位身分證的\n問題，我們也了解一直都沒有辦法解決，除了賠償金、調解金之外，每年還要編列預算做為維\n護經費，其實我們只有凍結、沒有刪減，目前還是在運作當中，只要行政院在三個月內趕快提\n出報告，就解凍了，我們並沒有把預算做任何的刪減。","quality":0.748},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:35:18.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:35:47.093333+08:00","text":"第 96 案全數凍結，保留；第 97 案改主決議；第 98 案凍結 100 萬：第\n99案併通案辦理；第 100案併通案辦理；其餘保留。","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:35:48.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:36:05.480000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 12 目「一般建築及設備」，國民黨黨團陳菁徽委員所提凍結 15%，併通案辦理；\n第 102案主決議由賴士葆委員所提，文字修正。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:36:07.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:36:10.940000+08:00","text":"謝謝行政院張秘書長，各位辛苦了，謝謝。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:36:11.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:36:14.640000+08:00","text":"我們進入原住民族委員會，謝謝。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:36:35.032222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:36:48.780000+08:00","text":"謝謝原住民族委員會，我們來介紹一下，列席的原住民族\n委員會政務副主任委員谷縱．喀勒芳安，副主委，請坐。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:36:54.311818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:37:01.555882+08:00","text":"各位黨團幹部，謝謝各位，原民會副\n主委、相關的列席官員，請坐。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:37:01.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:37:19.513333+08:00","text":"我們進入第 2款第 8項「原住民族委員會」，原列數 128億 5,923萬 2,000元，第 103案國民\n黨高金素梅委員所提，改主決議。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:37:19.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:37:38.070000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 1 目「一般行政」，第 104 案國民黨團鄭天財凍結 100 萬，併委員會決議辦理，\n文字修正；第 105案鄭天財委員所提凍結 100萬，併委員會決議辦理，文字修正。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:37:38.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:38:31.516667+08:00","text":"我們進入第 2 目「綜合規劃發展」，第 106 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 107 案黃仁委員所提\n，撤案；第 108案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 109案林倩綺委員所提，改主決議；第 110案黃仁委\n員所提，撤案；第 111 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 112 案黃仁委員所提凍結 300 萬，撤案；第\n113 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 114 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 115 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第\n116 案林倩綺委員所提，改主決議；第 117 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 118 案黃仁委員所提，撤\n案；第 119案黃仁委員所提，撤案。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:38:31.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:38:33.435385+08:00","text":"黃仁委員來了沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:38:34.127692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:38:34.589231+08:00","text":"沒有到，好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:38:35.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:39:06.910000+08:00","text":"第 120 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 121 案林倩綺委員所提，改主決議；第 122 案黃仁委員所\n提，撤案；第 123 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 124 案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 125 案黃仁委員\n所提，撤案；第 126案王安祥委員所提，改主決議。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"主席：我們現在進行宣告","start":"2026-07-30T10:39:08.931429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:39:09.788571+08:00","text":"您要補充嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:39:09.788571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:39:10.788571+08:00","text":"對，改主決議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:39:10.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:39:32.193333+08:00","text":"這個部分就是因為很多原住民朋友在工作的時候，我們常常看到非常讓人痛心的職業\n災害部分，所以我那天希望他們在促進就業之餘，也要提升原民職業災害防治相關的事情，因\n為我們現在有職災保險，所以可以利用那個資源來做處理。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:39:32.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:39:36.137778+08:00","text":"那天處長有來跟我做了說明，所以\n我改主決議。以上。協 16","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:39:36.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:39:38.178182+08:00","text":"好的，謝謝王安祥委員改主決議。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:39:38.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:39:53.026667+08:00","text":"第 127 案徐欣瑩委員所提主決議；第 128 案徐欣瑩委員所提主決議；第 129 案高金素梅委員\n所提主決議；第 130案黃仁委員所提，撤案；第 131案黃仁委員所提，撤案。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:40:08.795385+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:40:10.949231+08:00","text":"原住民族委員會請表達第 127案到第 129案有沒有意見。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:40:11.256923+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:40:11.872308+08:00","text":"報告主席，沒意見。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:40:15.686667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:40:16.686667+08:00","text":"照案通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:40:17.565455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:40:28.797778+08:00","text":"進入歲出部分，第 9 項「原住民族文化發展中心」第 2 目，第 132 案黃仁委員所提撤案；第\n133案黃仁委員所提撤案。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:40:34.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:40:36.093333+08:00","text":"謝謝原住民族委員會列席，謝謝。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:40:56.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:41:00.936667+08:00","text":"進入客家委員會部分，謝謝客家委員會古主委，謝謝您。","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:41:04.503636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:41:49.176667+08:00","text":"客家委員會第 10 項「客家委員會及\n所屬」，第 134 案翁曉玲委員所提減列 8,227 萬 7,000 元併通案辦理；第 135 案馬文君委員所提\n減列 100萬撤案；第 136案馬文君委員所提改主決議；第 137案徐欣瑩委員所提主決議；第 138\n案徐欣瑩委員所提主決議；第 139 案徐欣瑩委員所提主決議；第 140 案徐欣瑩委員所提主決議\n；第 141 案徐欣瑩委員所提主決議；第 142 案林思銘委員所提主決議；第 143 案林思銘委員所\n提主決議；第 144案，台灣民眾黨黨團所提主決議。","quality":0.569},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:41:49.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:41:52.260000+08:00","text":"請行政部門客委會表達意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2026-07-30T10:41:53.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:41:58.947778+08:00","text":"沒有意見，除了第 134案是併通案處理。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:41:59.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:00.770000+08:00","text":"照案通過，謝謝客委會。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:01.533636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:26.550000+08:00","text":"進入中央選舉委員會部分，游主委及中選會所有官員請坐。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:27.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:50.656667+08:00","text":"各位黨團幹部，進入中央選舉委員會部分，第 145 案黃仁委員所提凍結 50 萬併委員會決議辦\n理，文字修正；第 146 案黃仁委員所提凍結 10 萬元併委員會決議辦理，文字修正；第 147 案賴\n士葆委員所提主決議。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:51.073333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:54.750000+08:00","text":"請游主委表達意見，147案主決議。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:56.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:07.390000+08:00","text":"我們將進一步研議，遵照辦理。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:07.923333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:11.980000+08:00","text":"謝謝游主委，照案通過。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:59.603333+08:00","text":"接下來請陸委會邱主委，謝謝陸委會列席的邱主委，請坐，陸委會所有列席官員請坐。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:44:02.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:44:51.390000+08:00","text":"各位委員同仁、黨團幹部同仁打起精神，繼續進行第 15 項「大陸委員會」，第 148 案廖先翔\n委員、翁曉玲委員所提併通案辦理；第 149 案台灣民眾黨黨團所提併通案辦理；第 150 案王鴻\n薇委員所提併通案辦理；第 151 案張智倫委員所提併通案辦理；第 152 案國民黨黨團所提全數\n減列。","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:44:52.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:44:54.340000+08:00","text":"請國民黨發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:44:57.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:44:59.486154+08:00","text":"陳玉珍委員，你要發言現在可以發言。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:00.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:14.473333+08:00","text":"好，我是提第 152案，這個部分因為涉及陸委會的業務，我想是我相對比較熟悉的，\n小三通的業務上也執行很多，所以我提議這個部分是不是就減列兩成？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:18.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:26.852353+08:00","text":"其實是一樣的意思，因為我們原來的意思也是前面已經執行的排除，後面 9 月到 12\n協 17\n月算了一下，事實上是一樣的，答案是一樣的，要敘述清楚而已。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:26.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:28.803333+08:00","text":"OK，等一下這個部分要請邱主委回答。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:29.317826+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:32.796087+08:00","text":"接下來台灣民眾黨團跟民進黨團要不要表達意見？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:32.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:37.538889+08:00","text":"因為這是改為減列兩成，還是直接聽陸委\n會的說明？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:38.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:42.590000+08:00","text":"好，台灣民眾黨不表達意見，那就請陸委會表達意見好嗎？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:42.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:46.382308+08:00","text":"好，減列 20%的部分請邱主委表達意見。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:46.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:51.356667+08:00","text":"謝謝韓院長、各位黨團的委員，感謝大家指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:51.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:30.417273+08:00","text":"針對我們這項業務費，其實如果\n減列兩成，應該是指 9 月份到 12 月份還未執行的部分，畢竟我們從 1 月份到目前已經動支了 2\n億 1,000 萬，所以如果只是未來 9 月份到 12 月份的業務費減列兩成，我想我們應該是可以負荷\n，我們尊重委員的提案，謝謝。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:30.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:33.475714+08:00","text":"好的，陸委會邱主委已經表達意見。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:34.832857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:37.118571+08:00","text":"第 152案減列 20%。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:37.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:41.840000+08:00","text":"國民黨團要求保留。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:42.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:43.340000+08:00","text":"保留，送院會處理。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:43.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:46.044545+08:00","text":"邱主委已經同意減列 20%，你怎麼還要保留？","quality":0.471},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:47.408182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:50.340000+08:00","text":"原來的意思也是這樣，要全部減嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:50.340000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:51.340000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！你們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:51.340000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:52.340000+08:00","text":"就照陳玉珍委員的意思啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:52.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:57.138182+08:00","text":"對啊，陳玉珍委員提減列 20%，邱主委同意減列 20%，你現在怎麼還要保留呢？","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:57.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:59.070000+08:00","text":"等一下，我們討論一下。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:01.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:09.217143+08:00","text":"跟各位報告，因為這是黨團的提案，不是陳玉珍委員的提案，玉珍委員的意見我們當\n然一定尊重、參考，但是……","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:10.693333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:13.026667+08:00","text":"請黨團再溝通一次，好嗎？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:15.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:17.137778+08:00","text":"保留至院會處理，謝謝。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:18.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:18.960000+08:00","text":"好，第 152案保留。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:19.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:22.160000+08:00","text":"很抱歉，邱主委，黨團有表達意見。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:22.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:24.160000+08:00","text":"請莊瑞雄幹事長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:25.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:27.860000+08:00","text":"院長，還有各位協商代表……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:27.860000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:29.360000+08:00","text":"再溝通啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:29.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:49.160000+08:00","text":"其實第 152案原來你的提案……你看去年，是刪減到剩 1塊，後來也是因為彼此大家\n都很生氣，大家協商完以後，到最後就減列了，後來還去把它做一個回復，把這個預算救起來\n。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:49.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:54.074286+08:00","text":"「港澳聯繫服務之推動與執行」這個部分其實真的有必要啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:54.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:57.110000+08:00","text":"而且也都花那麼多錢了。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:57.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:48:21.788571+08:00","text":"剛剛\n陳玉珍委員講兩成的部分，我本來是要跟你說，看能不能不要減列，你如果去肯認整個陸委會\n對於港澳聯繫服務的推動跟執行的必要性，這個最怕的就是中斷，是你說兩成之後，我才跟你\n說好啦，陸委會主委也跟你說他尊重，國民黨的部分就讓林沛祥委員他們來處理。","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:48:22.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:48:35.137778+08:00","text":"個別的首長\n協 18\n可能有一些話，你覺得聽了不舒服，不舒服要從機要費去處理，不要從業務費來減列，業務費\n減列的話，真的會影響到機關對民眾的服務。","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:48:35.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:48:45.410000+08:00","text":"說一句實在話，這個都涉及到一般民眾，像我們\n就沒辦法去香港，我們連香港都去不成啊！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:48:45.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:04.994615+08:00","text":"所以這個部分沒有涉及到民進黨的官員，甚至沒有\n涉及到民進黨的公職，我們也是在這裡在替民眾表達說這一筆是政府要服務民眾的費用，減兩\n成大家就已經很痛了，你們又把它保留，是不是可以再考慮一下？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:05.148462+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:05.456154+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:05.456154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:09.660000+08:00","text":"是，我再講一下。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:09.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:28.412353+08:00","text":"我覺得現在是這樣子，兩岸關係是要往好的方向發展，但是我們現\n在有一些副主委，我不指名啦，就是有些副主委們就好像是戰狼式的，好像不想兩岸關係往好\n的方向發展，所以這個部分雖然我提出這個意見，但我還是希望陸委會繼續跟黨團做溝通。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:28.672857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:38.363333+08:00","text":"很\n多委員提出來的都是很正向的，希望保障老百姓的權益，比如軍公教或農民等各方面的權益，\n我想你們會後再繼續溝通，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:39.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:44.321429+08:00","text":"我知道了，因為黨團剛剛指定陳玉珍委員發言，所以我就以為是以陳玉珍委員的意見為主，\n很抱歉！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:44.892857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:46.250000+08:00","text":"沒問題，誤會一場。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:46.250000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:50:12.320000+08:00","text":"第 152 案保留；第 153 案賴士葆委員所提併通案辦理；第 154 案賴士葆委員所提，併通案辦\n理；第 155案許宇甄委員所提，併通案辦理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:50:12.320000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:50:38.390000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 1 目「一般行政」，第 156 案王鴻薇委員所提，併通案辦理；第 157 案王鴻薇委\n員所提，併通案辦理；第 158 案台灣民眾黨團所提，併通案辦理；第 159 案陳清龍委員所提，\n併通案辦理；第 160 案國民黨團所提，全數減列梁文傑副主委 9 月至 12 月特別費，併通案辦理\n；第 161案賴士葆委員所提，減列 200萬元。","quality":0.009},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:50:38.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:50:40.190000+08:00","text":"邱主委，對第 161案有沒有意見？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:50:42.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:50:49.990000+08:00","text":"我們有跟委員拜託，他也同意我們科目自行調整，這樣比較好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:50:52.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:50:54.616667+08:00","text":"科目自行調整。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:50:54.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:50:58.283333+08:00","text":"好的，第 161案就減列 200萬元。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:50:58.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:12.380000+08:00","text":"我們現在進入第 2 目「綜合規劃業務」，第 162 案王鴻薇所提，改主決議；第 163 案張智倫\n委員所提，凍結 500 萬元。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:17.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:21.456154+08:00","text":"張智倫委員不在，國民黨團要不要表達意見，還是直接聽陸委會表\n達意見？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:23.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:24.510000+08:00","text":"聽陸委會？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:25.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:26.760000+08:00","text":"好，邱主委請表達意見。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:27.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:57.790000+08:00","text":"非常感謝，我們綜合規劃處其實是陸委會的大腦，也是心臟，他在研析中國大陸\n的情勢，撰擬各種政策的報告，工作非常吃重，如果凍結那麼多的錢，在未來短短的幾個月，\n我們擔心會在預算的支應上面比較不足，因此能不能讓我們改成主決議？謝謝。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:57.790000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:05.970000+08:00","text":"國民黨團，邱主委的意思是還剩下 4個月的時間，希望能夠改成主決議，請貴黨團表達意見\n。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:05.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:07.684286+08:00","text":"保留送院會處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:07.684286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:13.065238+08:00","text":"第 163案保留。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:13.065238+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:18.446190+08:00","text":"協 19\n第 164 案徐欣瑩委員所提凍結 10%，即 299 萬元。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:18.446190+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:23.827143+08:00","text":"陸委會可以接受嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:23.827143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:29.208095+08:00","text":"邱主委請表達意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:29.208095+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:34.589048+08:00","text":"好，保留，同上，我們同樣第 163案及第 164案併案保留。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:34.589048+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:39.970000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 165案改主決議，王美惠委員所提；第 166案王美惠委員所提，改主決議；第 167\n案張宏陸委員所提，改主決議；第 168 案王鴻薇委員所提，併通案辦理；第 169 案黃仁委員所\n提，改主決議。","quality":0.188},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:39.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:47.400000+08:00","text":"請陸委會表達一下改主決議，第 165案、第 166案、第 167案及第 169案，有沒有意見？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:47.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:50.900000+08:00","text":"沒有意見，謝謝主席。謝謝。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:51.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:56.733333+08:00","text":"我們繼續第 3目「經濟業務」，第 170案羅智強委員所提，減列 1,500萬元。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:57.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:53:00.650000+08:00","text":"羅智強委員在現場，有意見請表達。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:53:04.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:53:07.944706+08:00","text":"主席、委員以及陸委會的官員。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:53:08.465714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:53:19.880000+08:00","text":"本人因為曾經在中央政府、在總統府工作過，向來知\n道陸委會扮演的角色是如何的重要。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:53:20.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:53:43.846667+08:00","text":"其實當所有的部會都遵奉賴清德總統抗中保臺的政策進行\n相關政策的討論、研議時，唯獨陸委會是最不應該的，因為陸委會本身的存在就是要儘量變成\n兩岸之間的橋梁，做好服務工作。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:53:44.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:54:16.793333+08:00","text":"但是很遺憾，陸委會包括梁文傑副主委，還有包括剛剛又在\n外面嗆聲的陸委會官員沈有忠，我完全沒有看到陸委會今天有任何想要在兩岸關係上著墨的力\n量，但是我也尊重賴清德總統抗中保臺的政策，我想陸委會也是相當的無奈。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:54:17.245714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:54:39.307143+08:00","text":"既然如此，我覺得其實也不需要有這麼多的業務規模，因為一個基本上不著力、不用心、不\n把重心放在兩岸關係開展的大陸事務委員會，其實連他本身存在的意義、價值跟功能，我都打\n了幾大的問號。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:54:39.735714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:55:05.050000+08:00","text":"當然還有一些服務的項目，有些工作業務要推動，因此目前也不會把經費全部\n刪除，但是我覺得真的有必要大幅的來檢討，到底把國家珍貴的預算花在一個已經不能稱之為\n陸委會的陸委會身上，是一個對的資源配置嗎？","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:55:05.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:55:28.450000+08:00","text":"同時，基本上我覺得也是讓民進黨能夠好好的\n定位陸委會，既然陸委會變成是民進黨抗中保臺前哨的話，我想陸委會事實上也不再有過去的\n功能跟角色，所以我的提案是減列 1,500萬元。以上。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:55:31.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:55:35.116667+08:00","text":"謝謝韓院長、謝謝羅委員的指教。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:55:35.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:55:47.316667+08:00","text":"有關這一目是我們的經濟業務，這些業務簡單\n講，它是在照顧、關懷臺商，在中國大陸還有許多臺商需要我們在地服務，提供必要的訊息。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:55:47.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:56:25.170000+08:00","text":"同時，對於剛剛陳玉珍委員一直很重視的小三通正常運作，也是靠這一筆費用，如果減列 1,500\n萬元是我們無法承受，畢竟這一項業務我們已經執行超過了 45%，將近達到一千三百多萬，所\n以減列幾乎是無法正常維持，也請各位委員能夠……減列那麼多是無法承受的，謝謝。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:56:25.170000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:56:30.704000+08:00","text":"謝謝邱主委的補充說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:56:30.704000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:56:36.238000+08:00","text":"容我提醒一下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-30T10:56:36.238000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:56:41.772000+08:00","text":"保留再溝通，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:56:41.772000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:56:47.306000+08:00","text":"沒有問題國民黨黨團，第 171案王鴻薇所提已經改為主決議，但是有一個第 172案也跟國民\n黨黨團交換一下意見，徐欣瑩委員所提是凍結 10%，291 萬 4,000 元，這個數字落差很大，所以\n我還是要聽一下國民黨黨團的意見。","quality":0.293},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-30T10:56:47.306000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:56:52.840000+08:00","text":"併案送院會處理。協 20","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:56:52.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:56:56.554286+08:00","text":"好，邱主委，我們就併案保留送院會。是。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:56:58.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:57:12.440000+08:00","text":"第 173案王美惠委員所提改主決議；第 174案張宏陸委員所提改主決議；第 175案黃仁委員\n所提改主決議；第 176案王鴻薇委員所提併通案辦理。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:57:12.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:57:26.506667+08:00","text":"我們進入第 4目「法政業務」，第 177案國民黨黨團羅智強委員所提 2億 7,983萬 1,000元，\n羅委員提減列 1,300萬元，羅委員請表達。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:57:26.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:57:33.840000+08:00","text":"我的理由如上，之前講過了，我認為陸委會功能要全面的檢討。以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:57:36.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:58:39.897778+08:00","text":"不一樣，我們法政業務的部分是對國人風險的提醒，國人赴陸安危各種建置的協\n助，這個部分在海基會當然是編列補助 2.53 億元，陸委會本部的法政處真正只有用到 2,600 萬\n，事實上這 2,600 萬做了很多，像我們的簡訊，包括各種動態的登錄系統，還有協處國人赴陸有\n些風險跟對岸進行溝通，相關的這些經費都在這裡面，至於海基會補助 2.53 億元，因為後面還\n有相關的提案，減列 1,300 萬，確實我們不清楚要減列在哪個部分，也請委員給我們指導。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T10:58:40.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:58:49.870000+08:00","text":"總之\n，我們希望能夠改成主決議，來符合委員對陸委會做業務檢討的需要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:58:50.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:58:51.834286+08:00","text":"謝謝邱主委說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:58:52.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:58:55.977143+08:00","text":"羅委員，邱主委希望改主決議，您再表達一下意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:58:56.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:58:57.620000+08:00","text":"就保留吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:58:58.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:59:21.506154+08:00","text":"第 177案保留；第 178案林沛祥委員所提併通案辦理；第 179案黃仁偉委員所提改主決議；\n第 180案王鴻薇委員所提併通案辦理；第 181案羅智強委員所提「法政業務」減列 1億 2,000萬\n，是海基會業務，羅委員，您要不要表達一下意見？","quality":0.671},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T10:59:24.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:00:03.657778+08:00","text":"我覺得海基會的問題更嚴重，它捐助編列的預算是 2 億 5,306 萬，可是大家知道兩岸\n關係長期冰封、官方零互動，海基會的三大任務當中，協商、交流已經是完全停擺了，只剩服\n務的功能，但是業務量大減，就是他過去三大任務的功能，已經有 2 項幾乎是停擺了，但是陸\n委會捐助他辦理兩岸事務的經費卻持續增加，我覺得非常不合理。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:00:03.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:00:21.657778+08:00","text":"兩岸大交流時代，海基會的功能非常重要，官方兩會舉行過 15 次會議，簽署 23 項協議跟 2\n項共識，71 個城市直航，千萬陸客來臺，海基會交流協商服務的業務量皆遠勝於今日。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:00:21.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:00:37.657778+08:00","text":"但是陸\n委會 97 年度至 105 年度所捐助海基會的預算，皆低於 115 年度編列的預算，你可以看到海基會\n功能縮越多，經費增越多，這是非常奇怪的事情。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:00:37.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:00:49.213333+08:00","text":"97 年度是 1 億 3,300 萬元，98 年度就立刻跳\n成 2億 3,000萬元，然後陸續都不斷地在增加。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:00:50.102222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:01:03.280000+08:00","text":"可以看到海基會 115 年度甚至自行減少自籌款高達 2,304 萬元，自己都不努力了，連努力都不\n想努力了，就要靠政府養，讓政府來編列預算支應。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:01:03.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:01:21.546667+08:00","text":"兩岸零互動，官方零互動，海基會協商整\n個停擺，也不想想撙節開支，反而花更多的錢把自籌經費轉嫁給政府，我覺得非常違反財務健\n全原則。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:01:21.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:01:35.680000+08:00","text":"那麼陸委會捐助海基會預算，我覺得應該跟海基會目前的功能相當比較合宜，所以比較合宜\n所謂補助的預算規模，應該是回到陳水扁時期。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:01:35.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:01:45.546667+08:00","text":"因為陳水扁政府時期也是抗中保臺，希望兩岸\n官方交流或是民間交流……其實現在比陳水扁總統時期還嚴重、還倒退啦！","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:01:45.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:01:53.657778+08:00","text":"所以用陳水扁總統\n協 21\n時期的預算規模，都已經是對海基會非常的厚待了。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-30T11:01:53.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:02:04.880000+08:00","text":"所以我希望能夠回到陳水扁時代的預算規\n模，減列該預算 1億 2,000萬元，回到陳總統時代的預算規模。以上。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:02:04.880000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T11:02:06.280000+08:00","text":"謝謝羅智強委員發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:02:06.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:02:07.680000+08:00","text":"請范雲委員發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:02:08.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:02:24.030000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到國民黨針對陸委會的經濟業務，還有海基會的業務預算幾乎都是砍半，我\n想要提醒幾位剛剛發言的立委。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:02:25.541111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:02:36.180000+08:00","text":"剛剛聽到講到陸委會有一個理由是副主委沈有忠的發言，我查\n了一下，事實上沈有忠的發言其實是非常溫和地回應民眾黨的質問。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:02:36.793636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:03:00.030000+08:00","text":"你說他的報告只有 3 頁，\n他說他是 33 頁、有 1 萬 3,000 字，我想他有明確地交代他去越南，完全是跟陸委會相關業務有\n關的，這部分我覺得沒有索資前就說他 3頁有問題，我覺得他回應 33頁並沒有不妥。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:03:00.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:03:14.230000+08:00","text":"回到陸委會的經濟業務，據我的了解，他們其實經常在協助臺商，還有陸配的一些工作，海\n基會更是默默做了很多協助臺商跟陸配的工作。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:03:14.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:03:22.180000+08:00","text":"你把他業務預算減半，事實上受傷的會是需要\n陸委會協助的臺商跟陸配。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:03:22.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:03:42.144286+08:00","text":"如果大家對其中不管是陸委會誰的一些政治發言的不滿，我的看法\n是，對岸有國臺辦每天在那邊戰狼外交，有些時候我們有一些回應也是必要的，這不是外交部\n的工作，難道不是陸委會來做平衡回應嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:03:42.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:03:47.096667+08:00","text":"因為對岸的戰狼式外交，我方有些時候必須適時地\n回應。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:03:47.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:03:57.430000+08:00","text":"我自己是覺得，不要因為你對那些政治性的回應不滿，而傷害了陸委會非常重要的服務\n民眾最核心的業務吧？以上。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:03:57.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T11:03:58.793636+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員發言。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:03:58.793636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:04:01.763333+08:00","text":"陳清龍委員發言完畢，再請邱主委表達意見。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:04:02.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:04:03.930000+08:00","text":"陳總召請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T11:04:04.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:04:18.820000+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員，我本來是想針對大陸委員會預算來做審查，既然你提到沈有忠副主委\n，我就必須要來做說明。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T11:04:23.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:04:36.740000+08:00","text":"陸委會到越南考察，我開宗明義地講，陸委會的出國考察預算從兩百\n多萬暴增到八百多萬，是 3 倍！","quality":0.718},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T11:04:37.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:05:06.083333+08:00","text":"我並沒有說他花了千萬到越南，他在媒體公然指控說，我們指\n控他花了千萬到越南；第二個，3 頁的報告是正式公開的報告，我是根據公職人員出國報告內真\n的就只有 3 頁的報告，所以我提出 3 頁的報告，有誤嗎？","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T11:05:07.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:05:16.183333+08:00","text":"至於他認為有機密的文件、機密的報\n告，那是另外的機密報告，對不對？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T11:05:17.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:05:20.050000+08:00","text":"事實就是這樣呈現的，不能去誤導。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T11:05:20.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:05:54.710000+08:00","text":"第三個，今天我們在審查預算，陸委會的結論竟然說臺灣、越南跟中國要在越南三方舉辦智\n庫研討，我的記者會是在質疑這一點，我沒有質疑說他出國不行、考察不行、報告寫 3 頁夠不\n夠……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-07-30T11:05:54.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:06:14.626667+08:00","text":"最重要的是陸委會不跟大陸好好做兩岸的論述、交流，跑到越南說要跟越南、大陸、\n中華民國一起來做智庫交流等等，我是在質疑這個部分，所以我藉這個機會一定要做說明。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:06:14.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:06:16.817143+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們會議還有 22 分鐘就會結束。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:06:16.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:06:26.626667+08:00","text":"容我進行宣告：第 181 案、第 182 案、第 183 案、\n第 184案賴士葆委員減列 400萬元，併案保留。","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:06:27.404444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:07:31.970000+08:00","text":"現在進入第 5 目「港澳蒙藏業務」，第 185 案王美惠委員所提改主決議；第 186 案張宏陸委\n員所提改主決議；第 187 案林沛祥委員所提併通案辦理；第 188 案廖先翔委員、翁曉玲委員所\n提併通案辦理；第 189案王鴻薇委員所提併通案辦理；第 190案黃仁委員所提改主決議；第 191\n協 22\n案廖先翔委員、翁曉玲委員所提改主決議；第 192 案王鴻薇委員所提，全數減列「港澳蒙藏業\n務」3,476 萬 1,000 元；第 193 案王鴻薇委員所提減列 347 萬 6,000 元，這兩個提案不一樣，案\n子是一樣的，王鴻薇委員能不能補充說明一下？請。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:07:34.255714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:08:07.684286+08:00","text":"我說明一下，港澳蒙藏業務其實大家都知道現在沒有什麼蒙藏業務了，現在陸委會主\n要有些港澳的業務，但大家也知道，現在臺港澳之間的業務，我們過去還有在港澳設辦事處，\n對方現在不讓我們設、也不讓我們去，第一個，這個部分的業務是不是需要維持？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:08:07.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:08:49.570000+08:00","text":"另外，有關\n臺港經濟交流的部分，這部分我在質詢的時候我們的主委說臺港經濟非常重要，我們對香港的\n貿易也在成長，可是在同一時間，陸委會連我們農產品銷售到大陸都說這是統戰，不但在調查\n、要辦我們的縣市長，大家都記得饒慶鈴縣長不過只是錄了一個影片就被陸委會認為是違法，\n我也不曉得違法在哪裡，然後要法辦。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:08:50.242727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:09:03.424286+08:00","text":"甚至連地方的農會系統賣臺灣的水果到大陸去也一樣被\n調查，被陸委會點名、警告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:09:05.424286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:09:17.474706+08:00","text":"如果陸委會連臺灣農產品銷往大陸的市場，你都認為這是統戰，\n請問一下臺港之間的經貿是不是統戰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:09:17.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:09:26.495714+08:00","text":"所以今天的預算我全部都按照陸委會的政策，我覺得這\n個預算應該怎麼樣訂定。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:09:27.004118+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:09:51.376667+08:00","text":"另外，事實上他們有預算補助臺港經濟文化策進會，臺港經濟文化策進會董事長也不是專職\n的，現在是我們的央廣董事長，而且連董事長辦公室現在都被撤掉，變成陸委會的會議室。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:09:51.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:09:57.460000+08:00","text":"所\n以請問一下，臺港經濟文化策進會到底目前還有什麼功能？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:09:58.376667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:10.424286+08:00","text":"假借所謂港澳蒙藏業務還在使用納\n稅人的錢，我覺得這個部分的預算應該做處理。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:10.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:27.460000+08:00","text":"另外，我補充一下，剛才范雲委員講陸委會沈\n有忠副主委的臉書非常溫和，我只唸一句，他當然是因為民眾黨前兩天針對……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:27.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:28.598889+08:00","text":"我沒有說到臉書喔！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:30.553333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:33.020000+08:00","text":"你講什麼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:33.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:34.020000+08:00","text":"哪裡溫和呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:34.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:37.331111+08:00","text":"所以你不做功課……","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:38.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:41.095000+08:00","text":"針對出國的業報，我又沒有講臉書，我只是說我沒有說臉書……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:41.386667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:43.053333+08:00","text":"我現在來補充說明，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:43.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:45.053333+08:00","text":"因為范雲委員根本提油就火。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:45.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:10:52.997778+08:00","text":"就在我們審預算的時候，\n請問邱垂正主委，我不曉得你看到沒有？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:10:53.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:11:19.363333+08:00","text":"我們沈有忠副主委針對民眾黨前幾天質疑他就陸委會\n的工作到越南做考察，我覺得所有行政單位都可以做說明，不管你的預算怎麼樣的執行、怎麼\n樣花的都可以跟委員做說明，但是我們現在整個行政系統，我剛才在講嘛！","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:11:19.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:11:37.490000+08:00","text":"包含僑委會徐佳青\n委員長拿來教訓……我不曉得他是老師，還是媽媽在教訓兒子，來教訓民眾黨的委員說他們不\n會做委員，他來教他。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:11:38.275714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:11:55.110000+08:00","text":"至於沈有忠副主委的部分，邱垂正主委，我來跟你講他在他的臉書上講了一段話，還用括弧\n起來，他說為了刪預算找理由，硬拗罵人來刪的做法，括弧要刪就刪，不用放爭議訊息帶風向\n。","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:11:57.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:12:02.463333+08:00","text":"這就是他對現在我們在審查預算，直接在他的臉書開嗆。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:12:04.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:12:20.215000+08:00","text":"我真的不理解，他可以做一些說明\n，所以我覺得每一次像我們提案那麼多，每一個單位來做說明，老實說，我也很感謝，今天我\n也知道，你也不是私人在用嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:12:21.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:12:32.024286+08:00","text":"可是當立法院有委員在質疑你的時候，你是用這樣開嗆說什麼\n戰狼，這是對外戰狼嗎？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:12:32.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:12:34.128182+08:00","text":"根本是對立法院在做戰狼。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:12:34.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:12:51.060000+08:00","text":"協 23\n所以邱主委，沈有忠副主委在我們審查預算的時候，你在第一線想辦法跟我們委員來解釋，\n他自己卻在那邊開戰場，然後嗆要刪就刪，他意思就是要刪，你同意他的說法嗎？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:12:52.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:12:53.957778+08:00","text":"那你坐在這\n邊幹嘛呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:12:54.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:12:56.088182+08:00","text":"他有在尊重你這位主委嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:12:56.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:02.700000+08:00","text":"主委辛辛苦苦在這邊幫陸委會爭取預算，他在那邊無所\n謂喔！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:03.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:04.963333+08:00","text":"說要刪就刪，不要帶風向啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:05.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:06.930000+08:00","text":"這到底什麼樣的態度啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:09.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:21.470000+08:00","text":"所以真的，我再一次講從徐佳青\n到沈有忠，今天我們花這麼多的時間在審查預算，這些預算是拿來給我用的嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:21.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:22.595000+08:00","text":"是韓國瑜院長\n在用嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:22.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:23.386667+08:00","text":"不是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:24.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:25.817143+08:00","text":"是蔡其昌在用嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:25.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:27.906667+08:00","text":"也不是啊，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:28.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:30.115000+08:00","text":"大家都這麼辛苦坐在這邊，你們卻在\n外面開戰場……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:31.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:36.580000+08:00","text":"不要刪經濟業務，你要砍他的個人特別費，他只是針對這件事回應，好嗎？","quality":0.586},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:37.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:40.891111+08:00","text":"經濟業務預算是不是也是我們的職責之內？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:41.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:42.446667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:42.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:47.613333+08:00","text":"謝謝王鴻薇委員發言、謝謝范雲委員。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:48.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:13:51.280000+08:00","text":"跟邱主委報告一下。不敢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:13:51.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:00.280000+08:00","text":"現在王鴻薇委員最重要的一件事情，您還沒有說清楚，就是您第 192案跟第 193案的數字不\n一樣。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:01.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:03.280000+08:00","text":"第 192案就是維持。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:03.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:04.530000+08:00","text":"全數減列。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:04.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:08.494286+08:00","text":"第 193案是減列 347萬元，你是要求第 192案就對了？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:09.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:10.780000+08:00","text":"對，謝謝。好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:12.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:22.580000+08:00","text":"第 194案併通案辦理；第 195案併通案辦理；第 196案併通案辦理，其餘全部保留。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:22.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:31.577778+08:00","text":"我們進入第 6目「聯絡業務」，第 197案許宇甄委員減列 1,000萬元，請許宇甄委員說明。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:38.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:44.320909+08:00","text":"第 197案「聯絡業務」為 3,061萬元，許宇甄委員所提減列 1,000萬元。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:52.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:53.020000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:53.020000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T11:14:54.577692+08:00","text":"謝謝主席……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T11:14:54.577692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:15:08.870000+08:00","text":"針對「聯絡業務」的部分，今年度編列的預算是 3,061 萬 4,000 元，比 114 年度的\n1,462 萬 9,000 元，增加了 1,598 萬 5,000 元，增幅高達 109%。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T11:15:09.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:15:26.103333+08:00","text":"但是以現在實際的運作，我們可\n以看到陸委會的聯絡業務，不但沒有辦法幫助兩岸的交流，而且屢次在記者會上激化兩岸對立\n的言論，導致政策的說明流於政治操作，跟原本訂的所謂溝通交流根本背道而馳。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T11:15:26.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:15:41.055714+08:00","text":"再者，社會\n上屢有陸配因為不了解臺灣法規跟社會規範，而言行失當甚至被遣返，但陸委會也沒有積極地\n履行溝通與諮詢的責任，顯見業務的執行跟編列預算不符。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T11:15:41.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:16:02.936667+08:00","text":"而且這筆預算在短短的一年內暴增\n一倍以上，但經費的增加並沒有伴隨實質政策成效的展現，陸委會雖然聲稱透過各項的聯繫跟\n宣傳，推動兩岸政策，但實際上並沒有改善兩岸交流停滯所帶來的困境，反而製造對立。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-30T11:16:03.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:16:14.103333+08:00","text":"所以\n針對這個部分，本席建議減列 1,000 萬，以督促陸委會實際檢討聯絡業務，避免浮編、濫編，虛\n耗公帑，謝謝。協 24","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:16:14.633636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:16:17.103333+08:00","text":"許宇甄委員，委員會是減列 563萬。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:16:17.451818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:16:18.360909+08:00","text":"邱主委請表達意見。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T11:16:19.577692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:16:22.962308+08:00","text":"謝謝院長、謝謝各位委員指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T11:16:23.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:16:55.714444+08:00","text":"因為「聯絡業務」在委員會已經減列了 563萬，\n同時，我們也協調了賴士葆委員，他也同意刪減 100 萬，也就是這個項目已經減列到 653 萬，\n加上已發簽數，實在是沒有辦法再如剛剛許委員所說的減列 1,000 萬，是不是可以用 653 萬元，\n就是委員會的減列數來通過？謝謝。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:16:56.825556+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:17:11.520000+08:00","text":"許宇甄委員，邱主委的意思就是併委員會的 563 萬，加上賴士葆委員要求的減列 100\n萬，我們總共減列 663萬，您能接受，邱主委也能夠接受，您看這樣子好嗎？保留。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:17:11.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:17:12.020000+08:00","text":"好，保留，謝謝。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:17:14.984286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:17:15.841429+08:00","text":"第 197案保留。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:17:16.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:17:18.270000+08:00","text":"第 198案併通案辦理。第 199案……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-07-30T11:17:21.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:17:23.577692+08:00","text":"這個也保留。保留。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:17:23.885385+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:17:53.850000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 8 目「文教業務」，第 200 案改主決議，張宏陸委員所提；第 201 案廖先翔委員\n、翁曉玲委員所提，併通案辦理；第 202 案王鴻薇委員所提，併通案辦理；第 203 案廖先翔委\n員、翁曉玲委員所提，減列 700萬，凍結 100萬，翁曉玲委員請表達意見。","quality":0.535},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T11:17:55.463636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:18:03.988889+08:00","text":"就這個部分來說，我們其實有溝通，我後來有提了一些條件，陸委會在這部分，基本\n上我不知道他同不同意。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T11:18:04.766667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:18:10.900000+08:00","text":"如果同意的話，我就改減列 200 萬，凍結 200 萬；如果不同意的話，\n我就這個案子全數保留。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:18:12.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:18:19.470000+08:00","text":"麻煩邱主委表達意見，現在就翁曉玲委員在前提條件之下，凍結 200萬，請表達意見。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T11:18:19.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:18:30.241429+08:00","text":"是，相關的主決議內容，我們跟委員之間還有一些歧異，如果沒辦法接受，我們\n就尊重，保留。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:18:32.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:18:50.447778+08:00","text":"我對在野黨對陸委會預算的處理方式，非常地不能接受，你們一直是以好像陸委會講話\n講得不夠好，我想請問你們，當國台辦在修理臺灣人民的時候，你們覺得哪個部會應該為臺灣\n人民發聲？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:18:50.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:18:53.447778+08:00","text":"不應該有人平衡他在國際上的言論嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:18:53.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:18:54.527143+08:00","text":"那就應該吞忍嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:18:54.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:19:11.527143+08:00","text":"今天你們以哪一位副主委\n講的話不高興，你刪減的都是陸委會在做的一些無形的工作，這麼多臺灣人還有臺商到中國旅\n遊或做生意消失，我們接過不少陳情案，我知道陸委會都在默默地協助。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:19:11.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:19:19.503333+08:00","text":"你把他的聯絡業務刪\n掉、經濟業務也刪掉，那你到底是在幫臺灣人，還是在幫對岸？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:19:19.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:19:33.503333+08:00","text":"我要講的是，你們對任何政治\n發言不滿，包含我剛剛講到副主委只是回應他覺得被冤枉的部分，那你可以就特別費或什麼著\n手，不應該對陸委會的業務刪減……","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-30T11:19:33.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:19:42.488182+08:00","text":"因為他是保護臺灣人民的重要業務，很多東西是無形中在做的，如果你遇到陳情案，你\n協 25\n去問陸委會，他就是能夠幫你協助處理。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:19:42.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:19:44.503333+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員發言。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:19:44.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:19:55.420000+08:00","text":"第 203 案保留；第 204 案吳琪銘委員所提，凍結 50 萬，保留；第 205 案廖先翔委員所提凍結\n300萬元，保留。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:19:56.336667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:20:05.336667+08:00","text":"現在進入第 206 案主決議，徐欣瑩委員所提；第 207 案徐欣瑩委員所提主決議；第 208 案賴\n士葆委員所提。","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:20:05.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:20:07.670000+08:00","text":"請問陸委會第 206案、第 207案、第 208案？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-30T11:20:08.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:20:09.470000+08:00","text":"照案辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:20:09.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:20:10.470000+08:00","text":"好，照案辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:20:11.336667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:20:14.170000+08:00","text":"我們照案通過，謝謝陸委會邱主委，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:20:15.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:20:30.166667+08:00","text":"現在進入早上最後一個單位的審查，不當黨產處理委員會，麻煩請林主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:20:46.790909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:20:50.450000+08:00","text":"不當黨產處理委\n員會林主委，歡迎您。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:20:51.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:21:07.575000+08:00","text":"我們進入第 209 案，翁曉玲委員所提併通案辦理；第 210 案，翁曉玲委員所提併通案辦理；\n第 211案王鴻薇委員所提全數減列，麻煩請王鴻薇委員。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-30T11:21:10.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:21:27.040000+08:00","text":"他先去質詢了，王鴻薇委員的意見基本上也是認為不當黨產處理委員會到目前為止沒\n有發揮任何功能，而且該做的基本上都做了，本來就可以解散掉，所以這邊他堅持要把整個政\n務人員的待遇全數減列。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林主任委員峯正","start":"2026-07-30T11:21:30.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:21:32.755000+08:00","text":"我想就依照相關規定辦理就好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:21:36.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:21:38.277778+08:00","text":"那我們就保留了，好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:21:39.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:21:40.100000+08:00","text":"第 211案保留。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:21:40.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:21:44.214286+08:00","text":"第 212案廖先翔委員所提併通案辦理。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:21:44.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:04.006667+08:00","text":"第 2 目「黨產處理業務」，國民黨黨團羅智強所提併通案辦理；第 214 案許宇甄委員所提併\n通案辦理；第 215案賴士葆委員所提減列 100萬。","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:04.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:05.215000+08:00","text":"林主委請表達意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員峯正","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:06.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:07.844286+08:00","text":"我們已經同意了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:08.296667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:15.380000+08:00","text":"好，我們就同意減列 100萬，謝謝林主委。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:15.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:19.637143+08:00","text":"各黨團代表們非常感謝，明天早上我們……林沛\n祥書記長請。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:20.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:23.223333+08:00","text":"代表羅智強委員保留送院會處理。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:30.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:34.270000+08:00","text":"謝謝林主委，您請回，謝謝。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:34.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:36.652353+08:00","text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部，大家辛苦了一個早上。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:36.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:43.020000+08:00","text":"還有各位列席的李柏毅委員、翁曉玲委員、陳玉\n珍委員，你們不是黨團幹部，謝謝你們。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:43.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:56.436667+08:00","text":"現在接近十一點半，今天協商告一段落，各黨的幹部麻煩請聽一下，莊瑞雄幹事長請聽一下\n，昨天監察院協商的結論，我們先授權議事處先行發文，這是第一個重點。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"周秘書長萬來","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:56.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:22:58.103333+08:00","text":"公聽會的問題。好。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:22:58.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:23:14.484286+08:00","text":"第二，跟各位黨鞭報告，這很重要，明天如果院會能夠在上午結束，明天下午我們要繼續進\n行朝野協商總預算案，這一點要跟各位黨團幹部報告一下，特別要拜託，我們會再行發文。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:23:14.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T11:23:19.770000+08:00","text":"今天協商到此為止，非常感謝大家的參與，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T11:23:20.270000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T11:23:21.698571+08:00","text":"散會（11時 23分）\n協 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