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首先介紹在場委員及練習官員"},{"start":1756.4,"end":1758.4,"text":"張志倫委員"},{"start":1759.4,"end":1761.4,"text":"黃美慧委員"},{"start":1762.4,"end":1765.4,"text":"陸委會邱垂政主委"},{"start":1766.4,"end":1769.4,"text":"內政部移民署署長林弘恩"},{"start":1772.4,"end":1777.4,"text":"司法院法官吳元耀法官"},{"start":1777.4,"end":1780.4,"text":"法務部參事謝志明"},{"start":1783.4,"end":1786.4,"text":"國安局第三處副處長陳副處長"},{"start":1786.4,"end":1788.4,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1794.4,"end":1796.4,"text":"本日議程所列討論事項"},{"start":1796.4,"end":1798.4,"text":"及兩個法案合併詢答"},{"start":1798.6000000000001,"end":1802.6000000000001,"text":"請提案委員說明提案要旨"},{"start":1802.8,"end":1805.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1805.8,"end":1808.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1808.8,"end":1811.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1811.8,"end":1814.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1814.8,"end":1817.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1817.8,"end":1820.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1820.8,"end":1822.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1822.8,"end":1825.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1825.8,"end":1827.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1827.8,"end":1829.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1829.8,"end":1831.8,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1832,"end":1834,"text":"請提案委員說明"},{"start":1838,"end":1841,"text":"我來說明一下今天我提出的"},{"start":1841,"end":1843,"text":"兩岸人民關係條例"},{"start":1843,"end":1847,"text":"以及港岸條例的提案說明"},{"start":1847,"end":1849,"text":"現行的兩岸條例"},{"start":1849,"end":1853,"text":"針對收容天數有150天的上限限制"},{"start":1853,"end":1856,"text":"就是暫雨收容15天"},{"start":1856,"end":1858,"text":"續雨收容45天"},{"start":1858,"end":1860,"text":"加上延長收容40天"},{"start":1860.2,"end":1862.2,"text":"延長收容期滿"},{"start":1862.2,"end":1864.2,"text":"可以申請延長收容50天"},{"start":1864.2,"end":1867.2,"text":"這樣加一加總共150天"},{"start":1867.2,"end":1871.2,"text":"那針對應該強制遣返而未遣返"},{"start":1871.2,"end":1877.2,"text":"一旦超過只能採收容替代處分"},{"start":1877.2,"end":1879.2,"text":"但是這段時間內"},{"start":1879.2,"end":1884.2,"text":"他們理應該在規定的場所內等待被遣返"},{"start":1884.2,"end":1887.2,"text":"卻發生的到處趴趴走的事情"},{"start":1887.4,"end":1890.4,"text":"所以甚至還在這段時間"},{"start":1890.4,"end":1892.4,"text":"接受各種媒體的採訪"},{"start":1892.4,"end":1895.4,"text":"就是極其混亂"},{"start":1895.4,"end":1900.4,"text":"所以我們跟陸委會討論了這一些內容之後"},{"start":1900.4,"end":1903.4,"text":"提出了這個修法版本裡面的內容包括"},{"start":1903.4,"end":1905.4,"text":"第一個"},{"start":1905.4,"end":1908.4,"text":"增訂違反收容替代處分的規定者"},{"start":1908.4,"end":1910.4,"text":"得重新收容"},{"start":1910.4,"end":1915.4,"text":"收容期間重新計算不受150天的收容限制"},{"start":1915.6000000000001,"end":1916.6000000000001,"text":"第二個"},{"start":1916.6000000000001,"end":1919.6000000000001,"text":"申請再延長收容的事由"},{"start":1919.6000000000001,"end":1923.6000000000001,"text":"增訂天然災害、疫情等不可抗力因素"},{"start":1923.6000000000001,"end":1932.6000000000001,"text":"以及大陸地區遲不接受反受收容人"},{"start":1932.6000000000001,"end":1933.6000000000001,"text":"第三"},{"start":1933.6000000000001,"end":1938.6000000000001,"text":"增訂入境面談及強制出境審查會時"},{"start":1938.6000000000001,"end":1941.6000000000001,"text":"得委任律師陪同出席"},{"start":1941.8,"end":1945.8,"text":"也就是增加相關人權的部分"},{"start":1945.8,"end":1946.8,"text":"第四"},{"start":1946.8,"end":1949.8,"text":"提高預期居留的罰緩"},{"start":1949.8,"end":1952.8,"text":"增訂協助隱匿的罰則"},{"start":1952.8,"end":1957.8,"text":"所以本次修法的目的是要補足現行兩岸人民"},{"start":1957.8,"end":1960.8,"text":"及港澳條例的不足"},{"start":1960.8,"end":1963.8,"text":"使相關規定可以比照移民法"},{"start":1963.8,"end":1967.8,"text":"保障中國籍人士來台權益的同時"},{"start":1968,"end":1973,"text":"我們也希望可以避免違法而因被遣返"},{"start":1973,"end":1976,"text":"但是利用收容的替代處分"},{"start":1976,"end":1978,"text":"持續破壞我國的法治"},{"start":1978,"end":1982,"text":"希望在這次的修法可以得到委員會"},{"start":1982,"end":1985,"text":"以及行政部門的支持"},{"start":1985,"end":1988,"text":"最後舉一個例"},{"start":1988,"end":1996,"text":"曾經偷渡進來台灣的中國軍方退役人士"},{"start":1996.2,"end":2002.2,"text":"他就是這個收容替代的國安漏洞"},{"start":2002.2,"end":2006.2,"text":"所以我們希望比照相關的這些法治"},{"start":2006.2,"end":2008.2,"text":"比照相關的這些移民法"},{"start":2008.2,"end":2010.2,"text":"可以補足國安的漏洞"},{"start":2010.2,"end":2012.2,"text":"謝謝以上說明"},{"start":2012.2,"end":2016.2,"text":"謝謝感謝蔡委員的提問"},{"start":2026.2,"end":2032.2,"text":"我們請陸委會邱垂政主委報告"},{"start":2041.2,"end":2046.2,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家早安"},{"start":2046.2,"end":2050.2,"text":"今天貴榮會召開審查"},{"start":2050.2,"end":2055.2,"text":"李柏毅等委員所提出來的兩岸關係條例"},{"start":2055.3999999999996,"end":2057.3999999999996,"text":"部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2057.3999999999996,"end":2061.3999999999996,"text":"及港澳關係條例部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2061.3999999999996,"end":2066.3999999999996,"text":"本人僅代表陸委會列席說明如下"},{"start":2066.3999999999996,"end":2072.3999999999996,"text":"第一有關為了與境外人士的人流管理的程序"},{"start":2072.3999999999996,"end":2076.3999999999996,"text":"罰則及相關的措施相銜接"},{"start":2076.3999999999996,"end":2084.3999999999996,"text":"我們提具兩岸條例及港澳條例部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2084.6,"end":2090.6,"text":"其中包括剛剛李委員李昭偉所說的強制出境跟收人的部分"},{"start":2090.6,"end":2094.6,"text":"首先我跟大家報告背景說明"},{"start":2094.6,"end":2098.6,"text":"這個112年6月28號"},{"start":2098.6,"end":2100.6,"text":"我們入出國移民法"},{"start":2100.6,"end":2106.6,"text":"已經有相關的包括符合人身自由的制度性保障"},{"start":2106.6,"end":2110.6,"text":"以及考量入出國這個移民相關的規定"},{"start":2110.6,"end":2112.6,"text":"已經修正公佈"},{"start":2112.7999999999997,"end":2115.7999999999997,"text":"為了與境外人士的人流管理程序"},{"start":2115.7999999999997,"end":2117.7999999999997,"text":"罰則相關的措施相銜接"},{"start":2117.7999999999997,"end":2121.7999999999997,"text":"其實陸委會也已經提出了"},{"start":2121.7999999999997,"end":2126.7999999999997,"text":"兩岸條例跟港澳關係條例修正草案"},{"start":2126.7999999999997,"end":2129.7999999999997,"text":"目前行政院已審查完整"},{"start":2129.7999999999997,"end":2133.7999999999997,"text":"但是內政部評估可能還有在修正"},{"start":2133.7999999999997,"end":2136.7999999999997,"text":"這個移民法相關的條文"},{"start":2136.7999999999997,"end":2139.7999999999997,"text":"經整個行政院整體部門考量"},{"start":2140,"end":2142,"text":"為了節省立法成本"},{"start":2142,"end":2146,"text":"那麼避免兩岸條例短時間反覆修法"},{"start":2146,"end":2150,"text":"所以我們等移民法修正草案確定後"},{"start":2150,"end":2156,"text":"並同這兩次的這個修法一次來完成這個修法"},{"start":2156,"end":2160,"text":"所以暫時沒有提出行政院版的部分"},{"start":2160,"end":2162,"text":"請大家能夠諒解"},{"start":2162,"end":2166,"text":"第二個有關於李博義"},{"start":2166.2,"end":2170.2,"text":"林楚英委員所提的兩岸條例修正草案"},{"start":2170.2,"end":2174.2,"text":"以及張宏祿委員所提的港澳條例修正草案"},{"start":2174.2,"end":2178.2,"text":"都是在保障當事人程序參與權"},{"start":2178.2,"end":2182.2,"text":"以及強化收容替代處分的安全管理"},{"start":2182.2,"end":2185.2,"text":"本會競表贊同"},{"start":2185.2,"end":2188.2,"text":"各委員所提的修正草案版本"},{"start":2188.2,"end":2190.2,"text":"增訂中國大陸人民"},{"start":2190.2,"end":2193.2,"text":"經許可入境後進行面談"},{"start":2193.3999999999996,"end":2196.3999999999996,"text":"得委任律師在場"},{"start":2196.3999999999996,"end":2200.3999999999996,"text":"增訂受強制出境處分的中國大陸人民"},{"start":2200.3999999999996,"end":2202.3999999999996,"text":"香港澳門居民"},{"start":2202.3999999999996,"end":2205.3999999999996,"text":"得委任律師及同意"},{"start":2205.3999999999996,"end":2209.3999999999996,"text":"陳述意見程序或是在審查會進行在場"},{"start":2209.3999999999996,"end":2211.3999999999996,"text":"那麼我們是贊同的"},{"start":2211.3999999999996,"end":2215.3999999999996,"text":"以及以天然災害疫情等不可抗命因素"},{"start":2215.3999999999996,"end":2218.3999999999996,"text":"作為向法院申請中國大陸人民"},{"start":2218.3999999999996,"end":2221.3999999999996,"text":"香港澳門居民延長收容自由"},{"start":2221.6,"end":2225.6,"text":"以及強化對替代收容處分的安全管理等"},{"start":2225.6,"end":2229.6,"text":"續參照現行移民法第65條"},{"start":2229.6,"end":2232.6,"text":"第36條、第38條之四"},{"start":2232.6,"end":2235.6,"text":"以及第38條之八等相關規定"},{"start":2235.6,"end":2237.6,"text":"如果修法通過的話"},{"start":2237.6,"end":2240.6,"text":"實務上執行對外人士"},{"start":2240.6,"end":2243.6,"text":"還有入港澳人士軍採一致的作法"},{"start":2243.6,"end":2246.6,"text":"本會也競表同意"},{"start":2246.6,"end":2249.6,"text":"至於將中國大陸相關機關"},{"start":2249.7999999999997,"end":2253.7999999999997,"text":"持不接訪替代收容人士"},{"start":2253.7999999999997,"end":2257.7999999999997,"text":"作為再延長收容自由一節"},{"start":2257.7999999999997,"end":2260.7999999999997,"text":"考量近年來陸方"},{"start":2260.7999999999997,"end":2264.7999999999997,"text":"有持不接訪置入入籍人士之情勢"},{"start":2264.7999999999997,"end":2271.7999999999997,"text":"且置台人員不乏是刑事犯、偷渡犯"},{"start":2271.7999999999997,"end":2274.7999999999997,"text":"內政部移民署依現行規定"},{"start":2274.7999999999997,"end":2277.7999999999997,"text":"其收容期限屆滿前"},{"start":2278,"end":2281,"text":"作出收容替代處分"},{"start":2281,"end":2285,"text":"將這類人交付於國內的慈善團體"},{"start":2285,"end":2289,"text":"他們需要定期向移民署報到"},{"start":2289,"end":2292,"text":"但是人身安全拘束的程度"},{"start":2292,"end":2295,"text":"不會像收容這個效果"},{"start":2295,"end":2299,"text":"恐怕會引起社會治安造成隱憂"},{"start":2299,"end":2304,"text":"為避免引發外界的疑慮"},{"start":2304.2,"end":2309.2,"text":"政府會支持委員所提的修法方向"},{"start":2309.2,"end":2311.2,"text":"小姐"},{"start":2311.2,"end":2316.2,"text":"我們考量境外外國人強制驅逐出國"},{"start":2316.2,"end":2320.2,"text":"或是收容的移民法相關條文"},{"start":2320.2,"end":2322.2,"text":"以及修法公布"},{"start":2322.2,"end":2324.2,"text":"為確保國家安全"},{"start":2324.2,"end":2327.2,"text":"以及使中國大陸人民、港澳居民"},{"start":2327.2,"end":2329.2,"text":"強制出境及收容的程序"},{"start":2329.2,"end":2333.2,"text":"都能夠有相同的正當法律程序"},{"start":2333.3999999999996,"end":2337.3999999999996,"text":"我們會更加保障我們競表支持"},{"start":2337.3999999999996,"end":2340.3999999999996,"text":"也謝謝各位委員所提的兩岸條例"},{"start":2340.3999999999996,"end":2344.3999999999996,"text":"跟港澳關係條例相關的修法草案"},{"start":2344.3999999999996,"end":2348.3999999999996,"text":"本人再次感謝大家的努力"},{"start":2348.3999999999996,"end":2350.3999999999996,"text":"那麼詳細條文的部分"},{"start":2350.3999999999996,"end":2353.3999999999996,"text":"等我們進入到逐條討論的時候"},{"start":2353.3999999999996,"end":2355.3999999999996,"text":"再跟委員進一步交換意見"},{"start":2355.3999999999996,"end":2357.3999999999996,"text":"謝謝各位委員"},{"start":2363.3999999999996,"end":2367.3999999999996,"text":"報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報"},{"start":2367.3999999999996,"end":2369.3999999999996,"text":"現在進行詢答"},{"start":2369.3999999999996,"end":2372.3999999999996,"text":"委員質詢前原例作幾點宣告"},{"start":2372.3999999999996,"end":2374.3999999999996,"text":"每位委員質詢時間"},{"start":2374.3999999999996,"end":2377.3999999999996,"text":"本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘"},{"start":2377.3999999999996,"end":2379.3999999999996,"text":"非本會委員5分鐘"},{"start":2379.3999999999996,"end":2382.3999999999996,"text":"上午10點30分截止質詢登記"},{"start":2382.3999999999996,"end":2384.3999999999996,"text":"今天處理法案"},{"start":2384.3999999999996,"end":2387.3999999999996,"text":"本次會議就不處理臨時提案"},{"start":2387.3999999999996,"end":2389.3999999999996,"text":"請問各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":2389.3999999999996,"end":2390.3999999999996,"text":"沒有"},{"start":2390.3999999999996,"end":2392.3999999999996,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":2392.6,"end":2394.6,"text":"接下來我們進行詢答"},{"start":2394.6,"end":2397.6,"text":"請登記第一位的張志倫委員質詢"},{"start":2404.6,"end":2406.6,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":2406.6,"end":2408.6,"text":"各位委員各位官員早"},{"start":2408.6,"end":2410.6,"text":"有請邱垂政主委"},{"start":2414.6,"end":2415.6,"text":"張委員早"},{"start":2415.6,"end":2419.6,"text":"昨天早今天是陸委會的這個詢答"},{"start":2419.7999999999997,"end":2422.7999999999997,"text":"首先要跟主委討論"},{"start":2422.7999999999997,"end":2426.7999999999997,"text":"就是先前有關於台東縣長姚慶林縣長"},{"start":2426.7999999999997,"end":2428.7999999999997,"text":"因為為了農民的生計"},{"start":2428.7999999999997,"end":2432.7999999999997,"text":"預錄影片在海峽論壇推廣農產品"},{"start":2432.7999999999997,"end":2435.7999999999997,"text":"那我還記得當時陸委會高調宣稱"},{"start":2435.7999999999997,"end":2437.7999999999997,"text":"他違反兩岸關係條例"},{"start":2437.7999999999997,"end":2438.7999999999997,"text":"第三三條之一"},{"start":2438.7999999999997,"end":2440.7999999999997,"text":"與中國黨政軍合作"},{"start":2440.7999999999997,"end":2443.7999999999997,"text":"那必須啟動行政調查"},{"start":2443.7999999999997,"end":2446.7999999999997,"text":"那後來近日你們有坦言"},{"start":2446.7999999999997,"end":2447.7999999999997,"text":"是不是說"},{"start":2448,"end":2450,"text":"這個基本上姚縣長的發言"},{"start":2450,"end":2453,"text":"沒有牽涉到兩岸重大政治議題"},{"start":2453,"end":2457,"text":"所以你們現在處理的狀況是如何"},{"start":2457,"end":2459,"text":"是不是可以說明一下"},{"start":2459,"end":2460,"text":"是"},{"start":2460,"end":2464,"text":"公文報告有關於姚慶林縣長"},{"start":2464,"end":2467,"text":"這個以錄影的方式"},{"start":2467,"end":2469,"text":"在海峽論壇"},{"start":2469,"end":2471,"text":"宣稱說法"},{"start":2471,"end":2474,"text":"那這部分我們有請內政部"},{"start":2474,"end":2477,"text":"進行必要的行政的了解"},{"start":2477.2,"end":2482.2,"text":"那目前他這個相關行政的一些報告"},{"start":2482.2,"end":2486.2,"text":"那麼還在彙整其他相關單位當中"},{"start":2486.2,"end":2489.2,"text":"我們還沒有做出最後的決定"},{"start":2489.2,"end":2491.2,"text":"那當時你們不是已經跟媒體"},{"start":2491.2,"end":2494.2,"text":"坦承言說沒有涉嫌"},{"start":2494.2,"end":2496.2,"text":"牽涉到兩岸重大政治議題嗎"},{"start":2496.2,"end":2498.2,"text":"你們有沒有這樣的回應"},{"start":2498.2,"end":2500.2,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":2500.2,"end":2503.2,"text":"我們應該還沒有做出決定"},{"start":2503.2,"end":2506.2,"text":"那我們會再有一個會商"},{"start":2506.3999999999996,"end":2507.3999999999996,"text":"再確定"},{"start":2507.3999999999996,"end":2509.3999999999996,"text":"如果有進一步的說法"},{"start":2509.3999999999996,"end":2511.3999999999996,"text":"我們會對外說明"},{"start":2511.3999999999996,"end":2513.3999999999996,"text":"還沒有確定大概什麼時候會確定"},{"start":2513.3999999999996,"end":2515.3999999999996,"text":"我想應該很快"},{"start":2515.3999999999996,"end":2520.3999999999996,"text":"因為我們現在在彙整相關的資訊"},{"start":2520.3999999999996,"end":2523.3999999999996,"text":"然後我們再做最後的決定"},{"start":2523.3999999999996,"end":2525.3999999999996,"text":"那我是不是也可以方便請教陸委會"},{"start":2525.3999999999996,"end":2528.3999999999996,"text":"今年針對民間交流案件"},{"start":2528.3999999999996,"end":2532.3999999999996,"text":"有真正有裁罰得到的案件大概有幾件"},{"start":2532.3999999999996,"end":2534.3999999999996,"text":"裁罰的案件"},{"start":2534.6,"end":2539.6,"text":"我們要看一下資料再回覆給委員"},{"start":2539.6,"end":2541.6,"text":"還是事後再提供相關資訊給委員"},{"start":2541.6,"end":2543.6,"text":"事後再回覆給我們好了"},{"start":2543.6,"end":2544.6,"text":"因為這跟我等一下"},{"start":2544.6,"end":2546.6,"text":"現在要問的問題有關"},{"start":2546.6,"end":2549.6,"text":"大家也看到最近監察院的監委有報告"},{"start":2549.6,"end":2552.6,"text":"就是有關於現在我們很多"},{"start":2552.6,"end":2557.6,"text":"兩岸青年的一些交流團的一個部分"},{"start":2557.6,"end":2559.6,"text":"監察院有指出"},{"start":2559.6,"end":2561.6,"text":"針對他的報告寫說"},{"start":2561.7999999999997,"end":2564.7999999999997,"text":"最近就是認為我們不管是教育部內政部"},{"start":2564.7999999999997,"end":2568.7999999999997,"text":"或陸委會針對兩岸學生的這個交流"},{"start":2568.7999999999997,"end":2570.7999999999997,"text":"沒有一個明確的"},{"start":2570.7999999999997,"end":2575.7999999999997,"text":"針對有些違反招攬規定的部分"},{"start":2575.7999999999997,"end":2577.7999999999997,"text":"沒有做一些處分"},{"start":2577.7999999999997,"end":2579.7999999999997,"text":"那我們看到最近這幾年"},{"start":2579.7999999999997,"end":2582.7999999999997,"text":"我們兩岸學生的交流非常的多"},{"start":2582.7999999999997,"end":2584.7999999999997,"text":"尤其台灣不管是大學"},{"start":2584.7999999999997,"end":2587.7999999999997,"text":"高中或者是國中國小的人數"},{"start":2587.7999999999997,"end":2589.7999999999997,"text":"到大陸交流的人數越來越多"},{"start":2590,"end":2594,"text":"尤其是大學生大概一年大概是5000多人"},{"start":2594,"end":2596,"text":"那我想要請教一下"},{"start":2596,"end":2599,"text":"針對目前陸委會有沒有掌握"},{"start":2599,"end":2602,"text":"到底有沒有多少的人數是"},{"start":2602,"end":2604,"text":"跟教育部來掌握"},{"start":2604,"end":2606,"text":"到底多少是未通報私下組團的數量"},{"start":2606,"end":2608,"text":"到底是多少有統計過了嗎"},{"start":2608,"end":2611,"text":"是跟委員報告"},{"start":2611,"end":2613,"text":"我們感謝我們監察委員"},{"start":2613,"end":2615,"text":"幫我們做的這些調查報告"},{"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他有"},{"start":4129.4,"end":4131.4,"text":"五中全會"},{"start":4131.4,"end":4133.4,"text":"維穩大於一切"},{"start":4133.4,"end":4135.4,"text":"加上習近平"},{"start":4135.4,"end":4137.4,"text":"要在明年要延任"},{"start":4137.4,"end":4139.4,"text":"所以他很多的"},{"start":4139.4,"end":4141.4,"text":"控管"},{"start":4141.4,"end":4143.4,"text":"人民"},{"start":4143.4,"end":4145.4,"text":"遷徙的自由"},{"start":4145.4,"end":4147.4,"text":"手段會更加的嚴厲"},{"start":4147.4,"end":4149.4,"text":"其實我們可以看到"},{"start":4149.4,"end":4151.4,"text":"最近北京當局"},{"start":4151.4,"end":4153.4,"text":"這幾年就是很多的國家安全"},{"start":4153.4,"end":4155.4,"text":"無限上綱"},{"start":4155.4,"end":4157.4,"text":"頻繁修訂各種的法令"},{"start":4157.4,"end":4159.4,"text":"這是其中之一"},{"start":4159.4,"end":4161.4,"text":"這樣子啦"},{"start":4161.4,"end":4163.4,"text":"我希望大家互相就教一下"},{"start":4163.4,"end":4165.4,"text":"討論一下"},{"start":4165.4,"end":4167.4,"text":"上一次的質詢"},{"start":4167.4,"end":4169.4,"text":"其實是跟您說"},{"start":4169.4,"end":4171.4,"text":"我希望"},{"start":4171.4,"end":4173.4,"text":"陸委會既然是在台灣"},{"start":4173.4,"end":4175.4,"text":"處理兩岸之間的關係"},{"start":4175.4,"end":4177.4,"text":"所以我們要能夠清楚的"},{"start":4177.4,"end":4179.4,"text":"讓我們自己的國民"},{"start":4179.4,"end":4181.4,"text":"能夠了解現在對岸"},{"start":4181.4,"end":4183.4,"text":"對我們的態度"},{"start":4183.4,"end":4185.4,"text":"客觀的事實主觀的態度"},{"start":4185.4,"end":4187.4,"text":"都讓我們可以清楚的了解"},{"start":4187.4,"end":4189.4,"text":"我覺得這是政府的責任"},{"start":4189.4,"end":4191.4,"text":"那麼一旦能夠清楚的了解"},{"start":4191.4,"end":4193.4,"text":"所有的資訊之後"},{"start":4193.4,"end":4195.4,"text":"國民做什麼判斷做什麼決定"},{"start":4195.4,"end":4197.4,"text":"當然我們是民主自由法制的國家"},{"start":4197.4,"end":4199.4,"text":"我們交給人民來做決定"},{"start":4199.4,"end":4201.4,"text":"所以我要求的是"},{"start":4201.4,"end":4203.4,"text":"政府部門尤其陸委會"},{"start":4203.4,"end":4205.4,"text":"要有提供清楚的資訊"},{"start":4205.4,"end":4207.4,"text":"明確的態度就這樣子"},{"start":4207.4,"end":4209.4,"text":"但是交給人民做決定"},{"start":4209.4,"end":4211.4,"text":"好所以上一次在面對"},{"start":4211.4,"end":4213.4,"text":"前一位委員在說你們都不讓"},{"start":4213.4,"end":4215.4,"text":"陸客來啦我們也不去"},{"start":4215.4,"end":4217.4,"text":"這些的事我說"},{"start":4217.4,"end":4219.4,"text":"這不是事實嗎"},{"start":4219.4,"end":4221.4,"text":"如果這不是事實你在台上"},{"start":4221.4,"end":4223.4,"text":"你應該就三句話很清楚的告訴大家"},{"start":4223.4,"end":4225.4,"text":"陸客不來我們不去"},{"start":4225.4,"end":4227.4,"text":"兩岸不交流這不是事實嘛"},{"start":4227.4,"end":4229.4,"text":"這是對岸不給他們的人民來"},{"start":4229.4,"end":4231.4,"text":"我們去的人這麼多"},{"start":4231.4,"end":4233.4,"text":"平常大家也都互相有在交流"},{"start":4233.4,"end":4235.4,"text":"這個才是大家明確看到的事實"},{"start":4235.4,"end":4237.4,"text":"你不能轉一個彎之後"},{"start":4237.4,"end":4239.4,"text":"變成在公開論述的時候"},{"start":4239.4,"end":4241.4,"text":"變成是一種這個"},{"start":4241.4,"end":4243.4,"text":"宣傳式的語言和事實相悖"},{"start":4243.4,"end":4245.4,"text":"好可是"},{"start":4245.4,"end":4247.4,"text":"可是可是"},{"start":4247.4,"end":4249.4,"text":"我要求的是明確的"},{"start":4249.4,"end":4251.4,"text":"事實客觀的事實明確的"},{"start":4251.4,"end":4253.4,"text":"態度那今天我在問你的這個"},{"start":4253.4,"end":4255.4,"text":"部分其實是對於法制"},{"start":4255.4,"end":4257.4,"text":"中國法制的變更"},{"start":4257.4,"end":4259.4,"text":"我也是希望您"},{"start":4259.4,"end":4261.4,"text":"不需要用其他髒皮的態度"},{"start":4261.4,"end":4263.4,"text":"你就告訴大家明確的"},{"start":4263.4,"end":4265.4,"text":"事實一中國有沒有"},{"start":4265.4,"end":4267.4,"text":"改變規定答案是有"},{"start":4267.4,"end":4269.4,"text":"第二中國改變的規定"},{"start":4269.4,"end":4271.4,"text":"有沒有更嚴格的限制"},{"start":4271.4,"end":4273.4,"text":"了人民"},{"start":4273.4,"end":4275.4,"text":"不分中國人民"},{"start":4275.4,"end":4277.4,"text":"甚至是境外人士外國人士"},{"start":4277.4,"end":4279.4,"text":"在進出中國的限制"},{"start":4279.4,"end":4281.4,"text":"有沒有包括連對"},{"start":4281.4,"end":4283.4,"text":"外國人士的進出"},{"start":4283.4,"end":4285.4,"text":"都產生更嚴格的限制"},{"start":4285.4,"end":4287.4,"text":"答案是有"},{"start":4287.4,"end":4289.4,"text":"因為連外媒"},{"start":4289.4,"end":4291.4,"text":"都已經指出了現在的這個"},{"start":4291.4,"end":4293.4,"text":"規定是你這個人只要是在"},{"start":4293.4,"end":4295.4,"text":"中國你對於中國有"},{"start":4295.4,"end":4297.4,"text":"他所規定的"},{"start":4297.4,"end":4299.4,"text":"他所規定的危害國家安全"},{"start":4299.4,"end":4301.4,"text":"利益危害國家"},{"start":4301.4,"end":4303.4,"text":"產業安全技術安全等等"},{"start":4303.4,"end":4305.4,"text":"你就有可能被限制"},{"start":4305.4,"end":4307.4,"text":"出境你不能離開中國嘛"},{"start":4307.4,"end":4309.4,"text":"這是很明確的法規規定嘛"},{"start":4309.4,"end":4311.4,"text":"第三什麼叫做危害"},{"start":4311.4,"end":4313.4,"text":"國家安全和利益什麼叫做"},{"start":4313.4,"end":4315.4,"text":"危害國家產業安全技術安全"},{"start":4315.4,"end":4319.4,"text":"這就是不確定的法律概念啊"},{"start":4319.4,"end":4321.4,"text":"這個很清楚嘛這個"},{"start":4321.4,"end":4323.4,"text":"不帶任何髒皮這就是明確"},{"start":4323.4,"end":4325.4,"text":"客觀的事實所以"},{"start":4325.4,"end":4327.4,"text":"中國現在的狀況是"},{"start":4327.4,"end":4329.4,"text":"他用了一個非常"},{"start":4329.4,"end":4331.4,"text":"不確定的法律概念"},{"start":4331.4,"end":4333.4,"text":"來對只要在中國境內的"},{"start":4333.4,"end":4335.4,"text":"部分中國籍或其他國籍的人士"},{"start":4335.4,"end":4337.4,"text":"都進行嚴格的控管"},{"start":4337.4,"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.4,"text":"姚慶林因為他現在是"},{"start":4761.4,"end":4763.4,"text":"台東縣縣長"},{"start":4763.4,"end":4765.4,"text":"但是有很多像農會"},{"start":4765.4,"end":4767.4,"text":"他們也不具任何的"},{"start":4767.4,"end":4769.4,"text":"官方的身份"},{"start":4769.4,"end":4771.4,"text":"你們還是去做調查了不是嗎"},{"start":4771.4,"end":4773.4,"text":"我們有瞭解"},{"start":4773.4,"end":4775.4,"text":"農委會也有把報告給我們"},{"start":4775.4,"end":4777.4,"text":"他認為沒有"},{"start":4777.4,"end":4779.4,"text":"違反兩條立法的警示"},{"start":4779.4,"end":4781.4,"text":"所以呂退資"},{"start":4781.4,"end":4783.4,"text":"陸委會沒有去了解沒有去調查"},{"start":4783.4,"end":4785.4,"text":"我們據瞭解他是"},{"start":4785.4,"end":4787.4,"text":"可能是參展但是"},{"start":4787.4,"end":4789.4,"text":"並沒有違反什麼法令"},{"start":4789.4,"end":4791.4,"text":"好待會我會繼續問"},{"start":4791.4,"end":4793.4,"text":"那另外洪其昌"},{"start":4793.4,"end":4795.4,"text":"我相信主委也很熟"},{"start":4795.4,"end":4797.4,"text":"洪其昌現在雖然退流了"},{"start":4797.4,"end":4799.4,"text":"但是呢他是"},{"start":4799.4,"end":4801.4,"text":"新潮流的創黨元老"},{"start":4801.4,"end":4803.4,"text":"那所以呢他到大陸去"},{"start":4803.4,"end":4805.4,"text":"也都受到"},{"start":4805.4,"end":4807.4,"text":"非常的禮遇"},{"start":4807.4,"end":4809.4,"text":"那他這幾年"},{"start":4809.4,"end":4811.4,"text":"也常常出入"},{"start":4811.4,"end":4813.4,"text":"中國大陸而且"},{"start":4813.4,"end":4815.4,"text":"他橫跨的領域更多"},{"start":4815.4,"end":4817.4,"text":"從這個旅遊業"},{"start":4817.4,"end":4819.4,"text":"科技業生技業"},{"start":4819.4,"end":4821.4,"text":"反正是各式的產業"},{"start":4821.4,"end":4823.4,"text":"那都有而且這個出入"},{"start":4823.4,"end":4825.4,"text":"也非常頻繁反而而且"},{"start":4825.4,"end":4827.4,"text":"帶團前往帶團前往"},{"start":4827.4,"end":4829.4,"text":"那如果他去參加的話"},{"start":4829.4,"end":4831.4,"text":"也都會成為座上兵"},{"start":4831.4,"end":4833.4,"text":"那所以請問一下"},{"start":4833.4,"end":4835.4,"text":"陸委會對於"},{"start":4835.4,"end":4837.4,"text":"洪其昌您這位老友"},{"start":4837.4,"end":4839.4,"text":"那麼有沒有"},{"start":4839.4,"end":4841.4,"text":"去做任何的了解"},{"start":4841.4,"end":4843.4,"text":"跟委員"},{"start":4843.4,"end":4845.4,"text":"我們有跟當事人問"},{"start":4845.4,"end":4847.4,"text":"那基本上我們也會"},{"start":4847.4,"end":4849.4,"text":"提醒要注意"},{"start":4849.4,"end":4851.4,"text":"附陸要注意兩岸的相關的規範"},{"start":4851.4,"end":4853.4,"text":"那我想"},{"start":4853.4,"end":4855.4,"text":"他也都很清楚"},{"start":4855.4,"end":4857.4,"text":"因為他也曾經認識"},{"start":4857.4,"end":4859.4,"text":"海基會的董事長"},{"start":4859.4,"end":4861.4,"text":"那截至目前為止"},{"start":4861.4,"end":4863.4,"text":"我想"},{"start":4863.4,"end":4865.4,"text":"至少我們沒有市政"},{"start":4865.4,"end":4867.4,"text":"了解他有管制的規範"},{"start":4867.4,"end":4869.4,"text":"那金寧您知道他還要去嗎"},{"start":4869.4,"end":4871.4,"text":"知道嗎"},{"start":4871.4,"end":4873.4,"text":"因為他"},{"start":4873.4,"end":4875.4,"text":"不用了解"},{"start":4875.4,"end":4877.4,"text":"不是他時間也是超過"},{"start":4877.4,"end":4879.4,"text":"我們管制期啦"},{"start":4879.4,"end":4881.4,"text":"所以他也是民間人士"},{"start":4881.4,"end":4883.4,"text":"所以同樣是民間人士"},{"start":4883.4,"end":4885.4,"text":"那可能我們的農會"},{"start":4885.4,"end":4887.4,"text":"他去賣水果到大陸"},{"start":4887.4,"end":4889.4,"text":"就有問題"},{"start":4889.4,"end":4891.4,"text":"那同樣是民間人士"},{"start":4891.4,"end":4893.4,"text":"屬於是賴總統的親信好友"},{"start":4893.4,"end":4895.4,"text":"就沒有問題"},{"start":4895.4,"end":4897.4,"text":"委員不講"},{"start":4897.4,"end":4899.4,"text":"我們只是說不要賣到那個"},{"start":4899.4,"end":4901.4,"text":"海峽論壇統戰平台"},{"start":4901.4,"end":4903.4,"text":"海峽論壇是統戰平台"},{"start":4903.4,"end":4905.4,"text":"這個"},{"start":4905.4,"end":4907.4,"text":"海峽論壇是統戰平台"},{"start":4907.4,"end":4909.4,"text":"那請問一下"},{"start":4909.4,"end":4911.4,"text":"北京的咖啡博覽會"},{"start":4911.4,"end":4913.4,"text":"是不是統戰平台"},{"start":4913.4,"end":4915.4,"text":"公務員報告"},{"start":4915.4,"end":4917.4,"text":"因為海峽論壇是"},{"start":4917.4,"end":4919.4,"text":"中共當局"},{"start":4919.4,"end":4921.4,"text":"對台統戰的一個"},{"start":4921.4,"end":4923.4,"text":"大交流大合作的一個"},{"start":4923.4,"end":4925.4,"text":"由他們主導的一個對台平台"},{"start":4925.4,"end":4927.4,"text":"那我想您提到這個什麼博覽會"},{"start":4927.4,"end":4929.4,"text":"應該不是"},{"start":4929.4,"end":4931.4,"text":"中共當局"},{"start":4931.4,"end":4933.4,"text":"所以北京咖啡博覽會"},{"start":4933.4,"end":4935.4,"text":"不是統戰平台"},{"start":4935.4,"end":4937.4,"text":"所以李退之"},{"start":4937.4,"end":4939.4,"text":"他說他就是去參加這個咖啡節"},{"start":4939.4,"end":4941.4,"text":"不過我可以跟主委報告"},{"start":4941.4,"end":4943.4,"text":"這個北京咖啡節"},{"start":4943.4,"end":4945.4,"text":"後來我有在網路上查"},{"start":4945.4,"end":4947.4,"text":"我想既然"},{"start":4947.4,"end":4949.4,"text":"我很鼓勵台灣的"},{"start":4949.4,"end":4951.4,"text":"業者去拓展"},{"start":4951.4,"end":4953.4,"text":"中國大陸市場"},{"start":4953.4,"end":4955.4,"text":"台灣的咖啡很好"},{"start":4955.4,"end":4957.4,"text":"可是他根本沒有咖啡館"},{"start":4957.4,"end":4959.4,"text":"也沒有特定的台灣咖啡的攤位"},{"start":4959.4,"end":4961.4,"text":"事實上是非常非常靈性的"},{"start":4961.4,"end":4963.4,"text":"個別的廠商而已"},{"start":4963.4,"end":4965.4,"text":"好那我請問一下"},{"start":4965.4,"end":4967.4,"text":"這個也是在台灣的產業"},{"start":4967.4,"end":4969.4,"text":"非常有名的金台科技論壇"},{"start":4969.4,"end":4971.4,"text":"算不算統戰平台"},{"start":4971.4,"end":4973.4,"text":"我想這個"},{"start":4973.4,"end":4975.4,"text":"經常在這個論壇"},{"start":4975.4,"end":4977.4,"text":"在兩岸做一些活動"},{"start":4977.4,"end":4979.4,"text":"主委有參加過嗎"},{"start":4979.4,"end":4981.4,"text":"我沒有"},{"start":4981.4,"end":4983.4,"text":"好那他是不是統戰平台"},{"start":4983.4,"end":4985.4,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":4985.4,"end":4987.4,"text":"他比較複雜啦"},{"start":4987.4,"end":4989.4,"text":"也經常在做這方面的工作"},{"start":4989.4,"end":4991.4,"text":"那有沒有統戰"},{"start":4991.4,"end":4993.4,"text":"那要看事實"},{"start":4993.4,"end":4995.4,"text":"要以事實來認定"},{"start":4995.4,"end":4997.4,"text":"所以"},{"start":4997.4,"end":4999.4,"text":"因為這個洪其昌連續兩年"},{"start":4999.4,"end":5001.4,"text":"都去參加這個金台科技論壇"},{"start":5001.4,"end":5003.4,"text":"而且都是座上賓"},{"start":5003.4,"end":5005.4,"text":"所以你現在不敢講他是統戰平台"},{"start":5005.4,"end":5007.4,"text":"所以現在是不是"},{"start":5007.4,"end":5009.4,"text":"招告我們全台灣的"},{"start":5009.4,"end":5011.4,"text":"這個台灣的企業"},{"start":5011.4,"end":5013.4,"text":"或者是退休的"},{"start":5013.4,"end":5015.4,"text":"退休或退下來的政務官"},{"start":5015.4,"end":5017.4,"text":"都可以去參加是這個意思嗎"},{"start":5017.4,"end":5019.4,"text":"是委員"},{"start":5019.4,"end":5021.4,"text":"您如果說有人檢舉"},{"start":5021.4,"end":5023.4,"text":"我們都會來受理"},{"start":5023.4,"end":5025.4,"text":"我不會檢舉啊我不會那麼無聊"},{"start":5025.4,"end":5027.4,"text":"我只是要問你們的定義啊"},{"start":5027.4,"end":5029.4,"text":"因為你們的定義不能新潮流說了算"},{"start":5029.4,"end":5031.4,"text":"我剛才講呂退之也好"},{"start":5031.4,"end":5033.4,"text":"洪其昌也好都是新潮流的"},{"start":5033.4,"end":5035.4,"text":"然後他們退下來都在遊走兩岸啊"},{"start":5035.4,"end":5037.4,"text":"他們遊走兩岸沒有問題"},{"start":5037.4,"end":5039.4,"text":"那別人去賣水果到中國大陸就有問題"},{"start":5039.4,"end":5041.4,"text":"我現在關心的是這個部分"},{"start":5041.4,"end":5043.4,"text":"我了解謝謝委員"},{"start":5043.4,"end":5045.4,"text":"委員我們"},{"start":5045.4,"end":5047.4,"text":"把它定位成統戰平台的"},{"start":5047.4,"end":5049.4,"text":"我們陸委會"},{"start":5049.4,"end":5051.4,"text":"從2012年每次都講"},{"start":5051.4,"end":5053.4,"text":"就是海峽論壇一到現在也沒改變"},{"start":5053.4,"end":5055.4,"text":"而且是從馬總統時代"},{"start":5055.4,"end":5057.4,"text":"就開始呼籲"},{"start":5057.4,"end":5059.4,"text":"不要去這個統戰平台"},{"start":5059.4,"end":5061.4,"text":"只針對海峽論壇"},{"start":5061.4,"end":5063.4,"text":"好所以你們現在只針對海峽論壇"},{"start":5063.4,"end":5065.4,"text":"像金台科技論壇裡面"},{"start":5065.4,"end":5067.4,"text":"參加的這個"},{"start":5067.4,"end":5069.4,"text":"大陸的官員"},{"start":5069.4,"end":5071.4,"text":"一樣的事啊就是要大家"},{"start":5071.4,"end":5073.4,"text":"共同完成祖國統一大業的"},{"start":5073.4,"end":5075.4,"text":"這樣的這個說明啊"},{"start":5075.4,"end":5077.4,"text":"談話啊"},{"start":5077.4,"end":5079.4,"text":"所以這個都不算是統戰平台"},{"start":5079.4,"end":5081.4,"text":"在這個金台論壇裡面"},{"start":5081.4,"end":5083.4,"text":"大陸官員參加"},{"start":5083.4,"end":5085.4,"text":"也一定都會講"},{"start":5085.4,"end":5087.4,"text":"這個是就是兩岸"},{"start":5087.4,"end":5089.4,"text":"兩岸要共同完成祖國統一大業"},{"start":5089.4,"end":5091.4,"text":"那這樣子的論壇"},{"start":5091.4,"end":5093.4,"text":"不算是"},{"start":5093.4,"end":5095.4,"text":"不算是統戰平台"},{"start":5095.4,"end":5097.4,"text":"在陸委會的定義裡面不算是"},{"start":5097.4,"end":5099.4,"text":"對不對因為現在只有海峽論壇"},{"start":5099.4,"end":5101.4,"text":"如果有人檢舉我們都會來"},{"start":5101.4,"end":5103.4,"text":"如果說委員"},{"start":5103.4,"end":5105.4,"text":"我就跟你講啊"},{"start":5105.4,"end":5107.4,"text":"我不會檢舉因為我是要來質詢"},{"start":5107.4,"end":5109.4,"text":"我是要來質詢"},{"start":5109.4,"end":5111.4,"text":"因為很多的"},{"start":5111.4,"end":5113.4,"text":"企業也好民眾也好"},{"start":5113.4,"end":5115.4,"text":"人民團體也好"},{"start":5115.4,"end":5117.4,"text":"不知道什麼時候"},{"start":5117.4,"end":5119.4,"text":"就變成我們"},{"start":5119.4,"end":5121.4,"text":"陸委會所謂你被統戰的"},{"start":5121.4,"end":5123.4,"text":"好對象然後"},{"start":5123.4,"end":5125.4,"text":"要被調查啊"},{"start":5125.4,"end":5127.4,"text":"對於農民團體來講他參加"},{"start":5127.4,"end":5129.4,"text":"一個海峽論壇他就"},{"start":5129.4,"end":5131.4,"text":"要被調查那對於這個"},{"start":5131.4,"end":5133.4,"text":"洪其昌來講數十"},{"start":5133.4,"end":5135.4,"text":"他還可以參加金台科技"},{"start":5135.4,"end":5137.4,"text":"論壇他不用被調查"},{"start":5137.4,"end":5139.4,"text":"那是不是我所以我就要問啊"},{"start":5139.4,"end":5141.4,"text":"因為我們很多的人民"},{"start":5141.4,"end":5143.4,"text":"很怕去觸犯陸委會"},{"start":5143.4,"end":5145.4,"text":"被所稱的被統戰嘛"},{"start":5145.4,"end":5147.4,"text":"這個大帽子一戴下來啊"},{"start":5147.4,"end":5149.4,"text":"這是"},{"start":5149.4,"end":5151.4,"text":"王委員啊"},{"start":5151.4,"end":5153.4,"text":"因為委員很關切"},{"start":5153.4,"end":5155.4,"text":"那我們會來了解金台科技論壇"},{"start":5155.4,"end":5157.4,"text":"好我要講的是"},{"start":5157.4,"end":5159.4,"text":"請你多了解"},{"start":5159.4,"end":5161.4,"text":"在民進黨籍裡面"},{"start":5161.4,"end":5163.4,"text":"我剛剛講的兩個剛剛好都是"},{"start":5163.4,"end":5165.4,"text":"新潮流啦都是新潮流"},{"start":5165.4,"end":5167.4,"text":"主委也是然後"},{"start":5167.4,"end":5169.4,"text":"我們的副主委梁文傑也是"},{"start":5169.4,"end":5171.4,"text":"我要講的統不統戰"},{"start":5171.4,"end":5173.4,"text":"不應該陸委會說了算"},{"start":5173.4,"end":5175.4,"text":"或者是新潮流說了算"},{"start":5175.4,"end":5177.4,"text":"不要有雙標"},{"start":5177.4,"end":5179.4,"text":"不要有雙標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我這邊具體建議"},{"start":6668.099999999999,"end":6670.599999999999,"text":"第一個是像剛剛主委說的"},{"start":6670.599999999999,"end":6674.799999999999,"text":"就是如果家長有發現這個是非常不對等"},{"start":6674.799999999999,"end":6676.2,"text":"然後沒有尊嚴"},{"start":6676.2,"end":6678.099999999999,"text":"甚至是很不正常的交流"},{"start":6678.099999999999,"end":6680.599999999999,"text":"就例如說他很明顯就是帶你去"},{"start":6680.599999999999,"end":6682.7,"text":"把這些什麼中共的會台政策"},{"start":6682.7,"end":6684.9,"text":"直接在他們的群組裡面宣傳"},{"start":6684.9,"end":6688.799999999999,"text":"或者是他們就跟你說到這邊你都不用付錢"},{"start":6688.799999999999,"end":6690.2,"text":"這個全部都免費"},{"start":6690.2,"end":6691.7,"text":"這是一看就有問題"},{"start":6691.8,"end":6694,"text":"那請這個有發現的人"},{"start":6694,"end":6696.5,"text":"及早的跟我們陸委會來通報"},{"start":6696.5,"end":6698.099999999999,"text":"來檢舉這個都要"},{"start":6698.099999999999,"end":6701.099999999999,"text":"那另外一方面就是這一些人民團體"},{"start":6701.099999999999,"end":6703.2,"text":"因為我看教育部的回應是說"},{"start":6703.2,"end":6705.5,"text":"因為人民團體不是教育部管的"},{"start":6705.5,"end":6709,"text":"所以人民團體就算是藉由學校這個管道"},{"start":6709,"end":6711.2,"text":"去跟學生去收攏"},{"start":6711.2,"end":6713.8,"text":"去把這些娃娃抓起來"},{"start":6713.8,"end":6716.2,"text":"但是教育部罰不到"},{"start":6716.2,"end":6717.599999999999,"text":"罰不到"},{"start":6717.599999999999,"end":6719.5,"text":"因為他們說人民團體不是他們管"},{"start":6719.5,"end":6721.099999999999,"text":"這個要跟內政部講"},{"start":6721.200000000001,"end":6724.1,"text":"但問題是教育部也沒有跟內政部講"},{"start":6724.700000000001,"end":6727.1,"text":"所以你們跨部會的協調非常重要"},{"start":6727.1,"end":6728.200000000001,"text":"這個通報的機制"},{"start":6728.200000000001,"end":6729.700000000001,"text":"拜託務必建立"},{"start":6729.700000000001,"end":6730.5,"text":"是"},{"start":6730.5,"end":6731.3,"text":"這個遊路"},{"start":6731.3,"end":6734.1,"text":"跟委員保證現在不會有所謂"},{"start":6734.1,"end":6735.700000000001,"text":"監委說什麼互踢彼酒"},{"start":6735.700000000001,"end":6736.8,"text":"不可能"},{"start":6736.8,"end":6738.5,"text":"現在我們各部會"},{"start":6738.5,"end":6741.6,"text":"我們都一起在相同的平台"},{"start":6741.6,"end":6743.900000000001,"text":"一起協力分工合作"},{"start":6743.900000000001,"end":6745.6,"text":"而且我們合作很愉快"},{"start":6745.6,"end":6746.3,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6746.3,"end":6748.900000000001,"text":"好這個也沒有什麼愉不愉快的問題"},{"start":6748.900000000001,"end":6750.700000000001,"text":"就是拜託一定要做到"},{"start":6750.7,"end":6751.9,"text":"最後一點"},{"start":6751.9,"end":6753.8,"text":"請你們提供這一些"},{"start":6753.8,"end":6756.8,"text":"他們統戰形式的樣態"},{"start":6756.8,"end":6759,"text":"讓家長可以知道怎麼查核"},{"start":6759,"end":6759.8,"text":"知道說"},{"start":6759.8,"end":6761.2,"text":"一看這個就是有問題"},{"start":6761.2,"end":6762.8,"text":"不然他們不知道怎麼識別"},{"start":6762.8,"end":6763.5,"text":"就例如說"},{"start":6763.5,"end":6765.7,"text":"他們其實統戰都有個套路"},{"start":6765.7,"end":6767.3,"text":"然後去看哪些企業"},{"start":6767.3,"end":6768.5,"text":"去看他們說什麼"},{"start":6768.5,"end":6771.2,"text":"看似中國很繁華的這些地方"},{"start":6771.2,"end":6772.8,"text":"他們其實都有個清單"},{"start":6772.8,"end":6774,"text":"你們多提供"},{"start":6774,"end":6775.099999999999,"text":"讓家長知道說"},{"start":6775.099999999999,"end":6777.8,"text":"一看就知道他們心裡會有一個意識在"},{"start":6777.8,"end":6778.5,"text":"好不好"},{"start":6778.5,"end":6779,"text":"好"},{"start":6779,"end":6779.599999999999,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":6779.700000000001,"end":6780.200000000001,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6780.200000000001,"end":6780.8,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":6782.700000000001,"end":6783.700000000001,"text":"謝謝黃捷委員"},{"start":6783.700000000001,"end":6785.5,"text":"接下來我們請廖先祥周委"},{"start":6794.200000000001,"end":6794.8,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":6794.8,"end":6795.6,"text":"麻煩我們抽嘴"},{"start":6802,"end":6802.900000000001,"text":"廖委員你好"},{"start":6802.900000000001,"end":6804.6,"text":"那個周委早安"},{"start":6804.6,"end":6805.1,"text":"早"},{"start":6805.1,"end":6806.6,"text":"這個先跟你"},{"start":6806.6,"end":6808.1,"text":"聊一個題外話"},{"start":6808.1,"end":6810.3,"text":"當然會跟今天的主題也是會有點關係"},{"start":6810.3,"end":6813.400000000001,"text":"就是我們如果在討論一些外籍移工"},{"start":6813.400000000001,"end":6816.400000000001,"text":"在台灣的工作權益的時候"},{"start":6817.400000000001,"end":6819.3,"text":"我們常常會有很多人的"},{"start":6819.3,"end":6821.1,"text":"包括我們現在國內的法"},{"start":6821.1,"end":6822.3,"text":"這個法律"},{"start":6822.3,"end":6823.400000000001,"text":"大概都這樣規定"},{"start":6823.400000000001,"end":6824.700000000001,"text":"和他比照勞基法"},{"start":6824.700000000001,"end":6827.5,"text":"不會因為外國人就有不同的待遇"},{"start":6827.5,"end":6829.1,"text":"原則上是這樣的規定"},{"start":6829.1,"end":6830.700000000001,"text":"那會這樣子的規定一部分"},{"start":6830.700000000001,"end":6832.700000000001,"text":"當然是普世價值"},{"start":6832.700000000001,"end":6835,"text":"這個人權等等的"},{"start":6835,"end":6837.6,"text":"但是裡面有一個很重要的精神是"},{"start":6837.6,"end":6838.8,"text":"我們也希望說"},{"start":6838.8,"end":6840.3,"text":"我們中華民國的國民"},{"start":6840.3,"end":6842,"text":"到外國去工作的時候"},{"start":6842,"end":6844.6,"text":"我們也不要被外國的法令歧視"},{"start":6844.6,"end":6846.200000000001,"text":"所以從我們自己做起"},{"start":6846.200000000001,"end":6847.3,"text":"也希望說"},{"start":6847.3,"end":6849.400000000001,"text":"全世界的各個國家"},{"sta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