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我們開始進行國是論壇 每位委員發言3分鐘"},{"start":1592.54,"end":1596.16,"text":"首先請 黃文凱委員發言 林謙奇委員請準備"},{"start":1611.15,"end":1613.15,"text":"主席 各位同仁 大家早"},{"start":1613.5,"end":1616.5,"text":"今年已經過了將近三分之二"},{"start":1616.5,"end":1622.26,"text":"但是我們看到 獨價 獨遊事件仍持續延燒"},{"start":1622.26,"end":1625.66,"text":"我們說 如果每年都有選出一個年度代表制的話"},{"start":1625.66,"end":1629.16,"text":"恐怕今年年度代表制會是獨 為什麼"},{"start":1629.16,"end":1631.96,"text":"因為一個多月了 到底獨遊的流向"},{"start":1631.96,"end":1634.3,"text":"多少的獨遊已經被國人吃下肚了"},{"start":1634.3,"end":1637.84,"text":"以及過去到現在這個源頭管理"},{"start":1637.84,"end":1640.22,"text":"怎麼樣的一個狀況 到目前為止"},{"start":1640.22,"end":1643.06,"text":"食藥署 衛福部還是說不清楚"},{"start":1643.06,"end":1645.94,"text":"另外一個部分 獨價頻傳"},{"start":1645.94,"end":1648.02,"text":"我們要講獨價離譜到"},{"start":1648.02,"end":1651.6599999999999,"text":"這兩天的新聞竟然是有公車發生車禍"},{"start":1651.6599999999999,"end":1655.58,"text":"結果兩個駕駛下來之後 都是獨價"},{"start":1655.58,"end":1660.02,"text":"還有 看到高雄有無照獨價的狀況"},{"start":1660.73,"end":1662.73,"text":"源頭管理不要放鬆"},{"start":1662.73,"end":1665.45,"text":"我們一而再再一三的強調"},{"start":1665.45,"end":1669.33,"text":"尤其現在是七月八月學生放暑假的一個階段"},{"start":1669.33,"end":1673.09,"text":"我們更呼籲所有行政部門 執法部門"},{"start":1673.09,"end":1675.09,"text":"都一定要強硬起來"},{"start":1675.09,"end":1677.89,"text":"該源頭管理的絕對不能放鬆"},{"start":1677.89,"end":1680.17,"text":"尤其電子煙的茶器"},{"start":1680.17,"end":1682.85,"text":"因為電子煙就是現在看起來"},{"start":1682.85,"end":1686.09,"text":"獨價最容易使用的載具"},{"start":1686.09,"end":1689.09,"text":"也因此 我們真的呼籲行政部門"},{"start":1689.09,"end":1692.53,"text":"好好的 霹靂手段來嚇阻獨價"},{"start":1693.1399999999999,"end":1697.4199999999998,"text":"另外一個部分 獨遊在這個禮拜又讓大家嘩然"},{"start":1697.4199999999998,"end":1701.1,"text":"是衛福部部長公然在國會殿堂裡面說謊"},{"start":1701.1,"end":1704.02,"text":"明明 周連有品的代表"},{"start":1704.02,"end":1707.4199999999998,"text":"從頭到尾都在所謂七月四號的專家會議"},{"start":1707.4199999999998,"end":1709.62,"text":"但是衛福部長居然在上個禮拜"},{"start":1709.62,"end":1711.8999999999999,"text":"還講說他們發言完就離開了"},{"start":1712.68,"end":1717.2800000000002,"text":"我們要問 上個禮拜已經是事件爆發了一個月了"},{"start":1717.2800000000002,"end":1721.0800000000002,"text":"結果一個月了 衛福部長還搞不清楚狀況"},{"start":1721.0800000000002,"end":1722.5200000000002,"text":"還沒有辦法掌握狀況"},{"start":1722.5200000000002,"end":1726.64,"text":"還不了解七月四號那一場會議的實際狀況"},{"start":1726.64,"end":1727.8000000000002,"text":"對得起國人嗎"},{"start":1728.49,"end":1728.97,"text":"在這"},{"start":1729.57,"end":1731.61,"text":"食藥署長 我們也要問"},{"start":1732.11,"end":1732.99,"text":"為何"},{"start":1734.25,"end":1739.05,"text":"拍板定案 明明七月四號專家會議講的是建議"},{"start":1739.05,"end":1744.29,"text":"而本席也要求審計部 請審計部調相關的資料"},{"start":1744.29,"end":1747.0900000000001,"text":"審計部回答給本席的也是"},{"start":1747.92,"end":1751.1200000000001,"text":"針對衛福部所回覆的韓市表示"},{"start":1751.1200000000001,"end":1754.48,"text":"七月四號的專家會議結論之建議"},{"start":1754.48,"end":1755.5200000000002,"text":"這個是建議"},{"start":1755.5200000000002,"end":1757.48,"text":"但是到最後是誰拍板定案"},{"start":1757.48,"end":1760.3200000000002,"text":"要20%不用下架的"},{"start":1760.3200000000002,"end":1761.8000000000002,"text":"就是食藥署署長"},{"start":1762.48,"end":1763.96,"text":"我們之前已經講過了"},{"start":1763.96,"end":1766.2,"text":"如果說這個決策真的是對的話"},{"start":1766.2,"end":1768.76,"text":"不會衛福部長還講說這是怪怪的"},{"start":1768.76,"end":1771.44,"text":"不會一個禮拜內馬上變更"},{"start":1771.44,"end":1773.3600000000001,"text":"變成全部都要下架"},{"start":1773.3600000000001,"end":1776.4,"text":"也因此做出20%不用下架"},{"start":1776.4,"end":1778.0800000000002,"text":"這樣子錯誤決策的人"},{"start":1778.0800000000002,"end":1779.48,"text":"不用下台負責嗎"},{"start":1779.48,"end":1780.8400000000001,"text":"不用下台道歉嗎"},{"start":1780.8400000000001,"end":1783.52,"text":"不用負起其相關政治責任嗎"},{"start":1783.52,"end":1786,"text":"我們真的拜託民進黨政府"},{"start":1786,"end":1787.88,"text":"不要拿人民的性命開玩笑"},{"start":1788.6,"end":1790.1599999999999,"text":"中聯很可惡"},{"start":1790.1599999999999,"end":1792.28,"text":"但如果一味的只有護航"},{"start":1792.28,"end":1793.84,"text":"那就只有更可惡"},{"start":1793.84,"end":1795.28,"text":"我們無法接受"},{"start":1795.28,"end":1795.6399999999999,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1796.58,"end":1798.58,"text":"謝謝洪門凱維的發言"},{"start":1798.58,"end":1798.86,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1799.42,"end":1802.3400000000001,"text":"我們接下來請林倩琪委員發言"},{"start":1802.3400000000001,"end":1803.74,"text":"羅志強委員請準備"},{"start":1817.47,"end":1821.55,"text":"院長 復會同仁 媒體朋友 全國民眾大家好"},{"start":1821.55,"end":1824.03,"text":"黑商決策 護航業者"},{"start":1824.03,"end":1826.3500000000001,"text":"食安官員 下台負責"},{"start":1827.48,"end":1829.2,"text":"毒油事件延燒至今"},{"start":1829.2,"end":1830.76,"text":"國人最想知道的是"},{"start":1830.76,"end":1833.04,"text":"油品到底流到哪裡"},{"start":1833.04,"end":1835.44,"text":"誰決定只下架含量"},{"start":1835.44,"end":1838.68,"text":"達20%以上的加工產品"},{"start":1838.68,"end":1843.1200000000001,"text":"政府又為什麼遲遲不把決策過程說清楚"},{"start":1843.1200000000001,"end":1846.28,"text":"7月4號食藥署召開專家會議後"},{"start":1846.28,"end":1848.04,"text":"決定針對使用問題"},{"start":1848.04,"end":1851.04,"text":"由達20%以上的加工產品"},{"start":1851.04,"end":1852.84,"text":"擴大預防性下架"},{"start":1852.84,"end":1856.52,"text":"定於20%的則未全面下架"},{"start":1856.52,"end":1859.04,"text":"但這項重要的食安決策"},{"start":1859.04,"end":1861.48,"text":"整個社會問了一個月相關的紀錄"},{"start":1861.48,"end":1863.2,"text":"才終於公開"},{"start":1863.2,"end":1864.28,"text":"本席要問"},{"start":1864.28,"end":1866.8,"text":"食安決策有什麼不能讓人民知道的"},{"start":1866.8,"end":1869.08,"text":"如果有充分的科學依據"},{"start":1869.08,"end":1871.44,"text":"就應該第一時間公開說明"},{"start":1871.44,"end":1873.12,"text":"如果是行政材料"},{"start":1873.12,"end":1875.04,"text":"更要交代是誰決定"},{"start":1875.04,"end":1876.16,"text":"依據為何"},{"start":1876.16,"end":1877.56,"text":"由誰負責"},{"start":1877.56,"end":1879.36,"text":"如今會議內容曝光"},{"start":1879.36,"end":1880.84,"text":"更讓外界質疑"},{"start":1880.84,"end":1882.56,"text":"決策過程竟然出現"},{"start":1882.56,"end":1885.36,"text":"第二層加工產品全面下降"},{"start":1885.3999999999999,"end":1887.6799999999998,"text":"將會牽連到第三層"},{"start":1887.6799999999998,"end":1889.9599999999998,"text":"第四層的產品的考量"},{"start":1890.54,"end":1892.3799999999999,"text":"食安單位最應該擔心的"},{"start":1892.3799999999999,"end":1895.94,"text":"應該是人民會不會吃下有疑慮的食品"},{"start":1895.94,"end":1897.06,"text":"而不是下架"},{"start":1897.06,"end":1899.06,"text":"會牽連多少業者"},{"start":1899.06,"end":1900.3,"text":"食安問題"},{"start":1900.3,"end":1901.7,"text":"政府的第一順位"},{"start":1901.7,"end":1904.1,"text":"永遠應該是國人的健康"},{"start":1904.1,"end":1905.8999999999999,"text":"整個社會沒有辦法接受的是"},{"start":1905.8999999999999,"end":1907.82,"text":"整件事情從通報"},{"start":1907.82,"end":1909.82,"text":"下架到資訊揭露"},{"start":1909.82,"end":1912.02,"text":"一再出現標準不清"},{"start":1912.02,"end":1913.3,"text":"責任不明"},{"start":1913.3,"end":1915.98,"text":"同樣是自主檢驗發現原料異常"},{"start":1915.98,"end":1917.46,"text":"政府對不同業者"},{"start":1917.46,"end":1919.62,"text":"是不是適用同一標準"},{"start":1919.6599999999999,"end":1921.9799999999998,"text":"原料是不是屬於食安規範下"},{"start":1921.9799999999998,"end":1924.26,"text":"應該主動通報的範圍"},{"start":1924.26,"end":1927.1799999999998,"text":"不能因為涉及公營事業台糖"},{"start":1927.1799999999998,"end":1929.1,"text":"就出現了另外一套標準"},{"start":1929.77,"end":1930.93,"text":"更嚴重的是"},{"start":1930.93,"end":1932.77,"text":"食安風暴延燒至今"},{"start":1932.77,"end":1934.25,"text":"真正該負責的人"},{"start":1934.25,"end":1936.61,"text":"沒有負起政治責任"},{"start":1936.61,"end":1938.57,"text":"行政院食安辦主任"},{"start":1938.57,"end":1941.65,"text":"本來應該站在全民食安的第一線"},{"start":1941.65,"end":1944.21,"text":"今天如果會議中優先考量的是"},{"start":1944.21,"end":1946.81,"text":"下架是否會牽連更多業者"},{"start":1946.81,"end":1950.61,"text":"而不是如何完整追回有疑慮的產品"},{"start":1950.61,"end":1952.97,"text":"就是嚴重的角色挫製"},{"start":1952.97,"end":1955.21,"text":"食安辦應該是要為人民把關"},{"start":1955.21,"end":1958.33,"text":"而不是為替業者來擔心"},{"start":1958.33,"end":1959.01,"text":"食藥署長"},{"start":1959.05,"end":1960.69,"text":"同樣不能置身事外"},{"start":1960.69,"end":1962.69,"text":"百分之二十標準的行程"},{"start":1962.69,"end":1964.73,"text":"決策推遲公開"},{"start":1964.73,"end":1966.97,"text":"食藥署有不可推卸的責任"},{"start":1966.97,"end":1970.69,"text":"本席要求食安辦主任食藥署署長"},{"start":1970.69,"end":1973.81,"text":"為決策適當和資訊不透明負責"},{"start":1973.81,"end":1975.49,"text":"應該辭職下台"},{"start":1975.49,"end":1977.53,"text":"人民要的是完整的真相"},{"start":1977.53,"end":1980.01,"text":"透明的資訊跟政治責任"},{"start":1980.01,"end":1982.45,"text":"不是中央一再的甩鍋"},{"start":1982.45,"end":1984.17,"text":"該下台的就該下台"},{"start":1984.17,"end":1985.89,"text":"該負責的就該負責"},{"start":1985.89,"end":1988.05,"text":"行政院不能再用政治攻防"},{"start":1988.09,"end":1991.09,"text":"來掩蓋食安治理的失能"},{"start":1991.09,"end":1992.77,"text":"食安沒有政黨色彩"},{"start":1992.77,"end":1994.29,"text":"更沒有蓋牌的空間"},{"start":1994.29,"end":1995.49,"text":"不要再蓋牌"},{"start":1995.49,"end":1996.77,"text":"不要再拖延"},{"start":1996.77,"end":1998.69,"text":"人民要的是安全的食品"},{"start":1998.69,"end":2000.93,"text":"不是政府一個又一個的藉口"},{"start":2002.76,"end":2004.72,"text":"謝謝林慶琦委員的發言"},{"start":2004.72,"end":2005.48,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2005.48,"end":2007.1200000000001,"text":"我們接下來請羅志祥委員發言"},{"start":2007.1200000000001,"end":2008.4,"text":"張志倫委員請準備"},{"start":2022.15,"end":2024.19,"text":"說謊和護航"},{"start":2024.87,"end":2027.47,"text":"已經變成綠游泳"},{"start":2027.47,"end":2030.71,"text":"升官發財的綠色通道"},{"start":2031.9,"end":2032.7800000000002,"text":"各位國人"},{"start":2033.4,"end":2035.5600000000002,"text":"毒油事件燒了一個半月"},{"start":2036.19,"end":2038.43,"text":"到現在都還報不完"},{"start":2039.11,"end":2041.31,"text":"查不出完整的真相"},{"start":2041.31,"end":2043.31,"text":"也沒有官員負責下台"},{"start":2044.37,"end":2047.25,"text":"決定毒油20%不下架的"},{"start":2048.4,"end":2048.88,"text":"會議"},{"start":2050.14,"end":2051.98,"text":"前兩天在媒體揭露上"},{"start":2052.49,"end":2053.85,"text":"才發現真相"},{"start":2054.97,"end":2057.29,"text":"原來中聯的代表"},{"start":2058.06,"end":2059.02,"text":"從頭做到尾"},{"start":2059.68,"end":2062.7999999999997,"text":"原來行政院完全知情"},{"start":2063.54,"end":2066.34,"text":"原來專家有不同的意見"},{"start":2066.9,"end":2070.2200000000003,"text":"原來拍板的就是食藥署署長"},{"start":2071.39,"end":2073.99,"text":"所以之前整整一個多月"},{"start":2073.99,"end":2076.79,"text":"衛福部長講廠商沒有參與"},{"start":2077.38,"end":2078.38,"text":"這是說謊啊"},{"start":2080.14,"end":2082.9,"text":"政府拒絕交出會議紀錄"},{"start":2083.64,"end":2084.8399999999997,"text":"就是蓋牌護航"},{"start":2086.25,"end":2088.49,"text":"台糖5月之毒不報"},{"start":2089.24,"end":2091.7999999999997,"text":"從食安法到地方自治條例"},{"start":2092.51,"end":2095.63,"text":"都指出不管是產品或原料出問題"},{"start":2097.17,"end":2099.61,"text":"業者都有通報的法定義務責任"},{"start":2100.8,"end":2102.96,"text":"民進黨卻動用全黨"},{"start":2103.52,"end":2104.32,"text":"的機器"},{"start":2104.72,"end":2107.32,"text":"全政府來為台糖護航"},{"start":2108.22,"end":2111.14,"text":"經濟部還大讚台糖是好寶寶"},{"start":2112.65,"end":2115.65,"text":"一個一個綠觀各種幹話托詞"},{"start":2116.41,"end":2119.41,"text":"一下說台糖買的出油不算食品"},{"start":2120.16,"end":2122.88,"text":"一下又說沒有進入製程"},{"start":2123.2799999999997,"end":2126.08,"text":"所以不算成要做成食品"},{"start":2127.46,"end":2131.34,"text":"國營事業食安失守還要被黨捧在手心"},{"start":2131.97,"end":2132.85,"text":"我想請問"},{"start":2133.81,"end":2137.97,"text":"台糖進這批油本來不就是要做成食用油嗎"},{"start":2138.79,"end":2141.75,"text":"而且因為台糖延遲通報"},{"start":2141.83,"end":2146.55,"text":"讓毒瘤多流竄三個月難道不是事實嗎"},{"start":2147.41,"end":2150.49,"text":"請問台糖之毒不報的良心何在"},{"start":2151.96,"end":2154.16,"text":"台糖因為信賴"},{"start":2155.02,"end":2159.06,"text":"變成了綠營的好寶寶綠寶寶"},{"start":2159.14,"end":2163.14,"text":"就是我們的賴清德的家天下"},{"start":2163.73,"end":2165.45,"text":"民進黨大佬吳乃倫"},{"start":2165.97,"end":2168.41,"text":"掏空台糖1.7億元"},{"start":2169.09,"end":2170.9300000000003,"text":"到現在欠款不還"},{"start":2172.03,"end":2173.9500000000003,"text":"台糖還自行撤回申請"},{"start":2174.78,"end":2177.3,"text":"讓吳乃倫可以不用管收"},{"start":2178.24,"end":2181.3599999999997,"text":"坐豪車吃美食上健身房"},{"start":2182.31,"end":2184.19,"text":"面對公共利益被侵害"},{"start":2185.26,"end":2185.98,"text":"民進黨"},{"start":2187.31,"end":2189.31,"text":"用力的為吳乃倫護航"},{"start":2189.91,"end":2192.07,"text":"也用力的幫台糖洗白"},{"start":2193.07,"end":2194.11,"text":"我要說的是"},{"start":2194.91,"end":2195.75,"text":"為了綠"},{"start":2196.62,"end":2197.7799999999997,"text":"關的關位"},{"start":2198.51,"end":2199.2700000000004,"text":"台灣人民"},{"start":2199.9,"end":2201.58,"text":"都要繼續吃毒油嗎"},{"start":2201.6600000000003,"end":2203.1800000000003,"text":"這就是民進黨要的嗎"},{"start":2205.4,"end":2207.32,"text":"謝謝羅志強委員的發言"},{"start":2207.32,"end":2209.48,"text":"接下來我們請登記最後一位"},{"start":2209.48,"end":2210.84,"text":"張志倫委員請發言"},{"start":2222.95,"end":2225.5099999999998,"text":"院長各位同仁各位媒體朋友"},{"start":2225.5099999999998,"end":2227.23,"text":"大家早安大家好"},{"start":2227.23,"end":2230.75,"text":"針對中聯致癌油的食安風暴"},{"start":2230.75,"end":2234.31,"text":"衛福部過去總將食安零容忍"},{"start":2234.31,"end":2235.75,"text":"掛在嘴邊"},{"start":2235.75,"end":2237.5099999999998,"text":"但事件爆發後"},{"start":2237.5099999999998,"end":2241.0299999999997,"text":"首先是拒絕揭露下游業者名單"},{"start":2241.0299999999997,"end":2244.39,"text":"甚至決意放行致癌油的產品"},{"start":2244.39,"end":2247.19,"text":"超過20%的油"},{"start":2247.19,"end":2249.23,"text":"可以繼續在市面流通"},{"start":2249.23,"end":2250.87,"text":"直到民怨沸騰"},{"start":2250.91,"end":2254.39,"text":"才急轉彎宣布全面下架"},{"start":2254.39,"end":2258.5899999999997,"text":"衛福部聲稱放行致癌油20%的作法"},{"start":2258.5899999999997,"end":2262.31,"text":"是參考專家學者的會議結論"},{"start":2262.31,"end":2264.31,"text":"但關鍵的會議紀錄"},{"start":2264.31,"end":2267.79,"text":"卻在各界強烈以及媒體的披露下"},{"start":2267.79,"end":2269.43,"text":"才終於公布"},{"start":2269.43,"end":2273.27,"text":"但17頁的紀錄不但沒有還原真相"},{"start":2273.27,"end":2278.23,"text":"反而揭露了更多令人費解的黑箱疑點"},{"start":2278.27,"end":2281.11,"text":"首先衛福部長信誓旦旦表示"},{"start":2281.11,"end":2283.79,"text":"中聯只參加上半場的會議"},{"start":2283.79,"end":2285.75,"text":"而會議紀錄卻表示"},{"start":2285.75,"end":2288.59,"text":"中聯根本是全程在場"},{"start":2288.59,"end":2290.67,"text":"面對外界質疑"},{"start":2290.67,"end":2294.67,"text":"短短幾天說法反覆前後矛盾"},{"start":2294.67,"end":2298.83,"text":"究竟是主管機關掌握資訊失準"},{"start":2298.83,"end":2303.07,"text":"還是背後有不可告人的決策過程"},{"start":2303.07,"end":2304.87,"text":"更荒謬的是"},{"start":2305.5099999999998,"end":2308.15,"text":"關於對於最關鍵的"},{"start":2308.15,"end":2310.87,"text":"治癌油的下架的決策"},{"start":2310.87,"end":2313.0299999999997,"text":"食藥署長在質詢時"},{"start":2313.0299999999997,"end":2315.75,"text":"親口承認是他放行的"},{"start":2315.75,"end":2319.31,"text":"對於衛福部長的說法反覆"},{"start":2319.31,"end":2321.91,"text":"公然為治癌油開後門"},{"start":2321.91,"end":2323.15,"text":"公然放水"},{"start":2323.15,"end":2325.5099999999998,"text":"甘冤充當門神"},{"start":2325.5099999999998,"end":2327.5099999999998,"text":"我們感到憤怒與不解"},{"start":2328.19,"end":2331.27,"text":"甚至政府不僅只有衛福部的失職"},{"start":2331.27,"end":2333.23,"text":"連國營事業台糖"},{"start":2333.23,"end":2336.31,"text":"最近都成為食安的大破口"},{"start":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