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leon"},{"start":1708.28,"end":1711.28,"text":"向委員會報告"},{"start":1711.28,"end":1715.28,"text":"我們今天的公聽會正式的開始"},{"start":1715.28,"end":1718.28,"text":"那麼歡迎今天綠林的學者專家"},{"start":1718.28,"end":1721.28,"text":"在場的委員、政府機關的代表來參加"},{"start":1721.28,"end":1725.28,"text":"財政部所屬泛公股金融機構"},{"start":1725.28,"end":1729.28,"text":"面對當前激烈競爭環境"},{"start":1729.28,"end":1733.28,"text":"如何擬定泛公股合併的短中長"},{"start":1733.28,"end":1738.28,"text":"短中程策略以實施計畫公聽會"},{"start":1738.28,"end":1744.28,"text":"那麼我二要的先表達一下"},{"start":1744.28,"end":1748.28,"text":"這次公聽會的目的"},{"start":1752.28,"end":1758.28,"text":"我先表達一下今天公聽會的目的"},{"start":1758.28,"end":1761.28,"text":"今天公聽會目的其實大家都了解"},{"start":1761.28,"end":1766.28,"text":"前陣子財政部花了快一百億"},{"start":1766.28,"end":1772.28,"text":"注資去取得國票金的一個控制權"},{"start":1772.28,"end":1776.28,"text":"在國票金的董事會裡面"},{"start":1776.28,"end":1781.28,"text":"史吾希董事、財政部的他的官股代表巴西"},{"start":1781.28,"end":1783.28,"text":"民股33億"},{"start":1783.28,"end":1787.28,"text":"所以財政部取得絕對的優勢"},{"start":1787.28,"end":1789.28,"text":"外界就認為"},{"start":1789.28,"end":1791.28,"text":"那麼財政部這個舉動"},{"start":1791.28,"end":1794.28,"text":"當然是是不是要推動公共病"},{"start":1794.28,"end":1797.28,"text":"推動公共病就是今天公聽會的目的"},{"start":1797.28,"end":1800.28,"text":"但是後來財政部語音不詳"},{"start":1800.28,"end":1803.28,"text":"那我就高度質疑了"},{"start":1803.28,"end":1805.28,"text":"如果你今天不推公共病"},{"start":1805.28,"end":1809.28,"text":"那你為什麼要注資這麼多錢到國票金"},{"start":1809.28,"end":1812.28,"text":"國票金是所有實際加金控裡面"},{"start":1812.28,"end":1818.28,"text":"電底的績效最差、規模最小"},{"start":1818.28,"end":1822.28,"text":"現在我們看到的以為"},{"start":1822.28,"end":1824.28,"text":"現在要推公共病"},{"start":1824.28,"end":1826.28,"text":"提高我們泛公股"},{"start":1826.28,"end":1829.28,"text":"銀行、我們的金融機構的經營效率"},{"start":1829.28,"end":1831.28,"text":"但到現在為止沒有這個答案"},{"start":1831.28,"end":1833.28,"text":"等一下我們學士就在講完"},{"start":1833.28,"end":1835.28,"text":"以後再請財政部長把這個說清楚"},{"start":1835.28,"end":1837.28,"text":"講明白"},{"start":1837.28,"end":1839.28,"text":"我特別要提的"},{"start":1839.28,"end":1841.28,"text":"我是對事不對人"},{"start":1841.28,"end":1843.28,"text":"我們要看"},{"start":1843.28,"end":1846.28,"text":"現在他並不是泛公股了"},{"start":1846.28,"end":1849.28,"text":"今天所有的泛公股都到"},{"start":1849.28,"end":1854.28,"text":"包括華南金的林副董都到"},{"start":1854.28,"end":1861.28,"text":"我們來肯定他對我們立法院的尊重"},{"start":1861.28,"end":1864.28,"text":"但是我要同時譴責"},{"start":1864.28,"end":1867.28,"text":"我們國票金的副董事長陳冠柱"},{"start":1867.28,"end":1869.28,"text":"他藐視國會"},{"start":1869.28,"end":1871.28,"text":"他的理由"},{"start":1871.28,"end":1873.28,"text":"他請教的理由"},{"start":1873.28,"end":1875.28,"text":"說要開董事會"},{"start":1875.28,"end":1879.28,"text":"我們國票金董事長張肇順就在這裡"},{"start":1879.28,"end":1882.28,"text":"他有跟我辦公室說"},{"start":1882.28,"end":1886.28,"text":"因為要開今天出席公聽會"},{"start":1886.28,"end":1890.28,"text":"所以他把董事會延到11點"},{"start":1890.28,"end":1893.28,"text":"這個我也肯定"},{"start":1893.28,"end":1896.28,"text":"所以我現在就請財政部"},{"start":1896.28,"end":1899.28,"text":"你是不是派員來通知"},{"start":1899.28,"end":1901.28,"text":"國票金的副董事長"},{"start":1901.28,"end":1903.28,"text":"請他要出席"},{"start":1903.28,"end":1905.28,"text":"請他練習"},{"start":1905.28,"end":1907.28,"text":"那個莊部長"},{"start":1907.28,"end":1909.28,"text":"你可以嗎"},{"start":1911.28,"end":1913.28,"text":"對你會打"},{"start":1913.28,"end":1916.28,"text":"你請他到那邊"},{"start":1916.28,"end":1918.28,"text":"他請教理由是要參加董事會"},{"start":1918.28,"end":1921.28,"text":"現在董事會不開了他為什麼可以不來"},{"start":1921.28,"end":1923.28,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":1923.28,"end":1925.28,"text":"就我所知"},{"start":1925.28,"end":1929.28,"text":"今天的公聽會是由我們財委會發通知"},{"start":1929.28,"end":1930.28,"text":"做邀請"},{"start":1930.28,"end":1933.28,"text":"那至於陳副董事長"},{"start":1933.28,"end":1936.28,"text":"他是按照程序"},{"start":1936.28,"end":1939.28,"text":"是按照向召委請假的"},{"start":1939.28,"end":1941.28,"text":"那至於要不要再邀請他來"},{"start":1941.28,"end":1943.28,"text":"我想這個是由召委來決定"},{"start":1943.28,"end":1945.28,"text":"而不是由財政部來決定"},{"start":1945.28,"end":1948.28,"text":"因為是委員會請的"},{"start":1948.28,"end":1950.28,"text":"那如果說他也經過請假"},{"start":1950.28,"end":1952.28,"text":"經過召委同意"},{"start":1952.28,"end":1954.28,"text":"那現在要不要再邀請他來"},{"start":1954.28,"end":1957.28,"text":"由召委這邊議會來做決定"},{"start":1957.28,"end":1959.28,"text":"召委是召委"},{"start":1959.28,"end":1961.28,"text":"今天主席"},{"start":1961.28,"end":1963.28,"text":"我就以主席的身份了"},{"start":1963.28,"end":1966.28,"text":"我們請財政部官員"},{"start":1966.28,"end":1968.28,"text":"特別是國務處長能不能打個電話"},{"start":1968.28,"end":1970.28,"text":"跟警府董事長到"},{"start":1970.28,"end":1972.28,"text":"這個"},{"start":1972.28,"end":1974.28,"text":"他的理由他請教的理由"},{"start":1974.28,"end":1976.28,"text":"我所了解的是"},{"start":1976.28,"end":1979.28,"text":"參加今天的國票競爭董事會"},{"start":1979.28,"end":1981.28,"text":"可是董事會沒有開"},{"start":1981.28,"end":1983.28,"text":"董事長在這裡"},{"start":1983.28,"end":1985.28,"text":"那個張照尊董事長"},{"start":1985.28,"end":1987.28,"text":"董事長要不要講一下你們幾點開始"},{"start":1987.28,"end":1989.28,"text":"董事會"},{"start":1989.28,"end":1991.28,"text":"張董事長"},{"start":1991.28,"end":1993.28,"text":"十一點半開董事會"},{"start":1993.28,"end":1995.28,"text":"各位"},{"start":1995.28,"end":1997.28,"text":"所以他請教理由是這個"},{"start":1997.28,"end":1999.28,"text":"那我今天雖然我不是召委"},{"start":1999.28,"end":2001.28,"text":"可是我今天是主席"},{"start":2001.28,"end":2005.28,"text":"我今天有一定的一個角色扮演"},{"start":2005.28,"end":2007.28,"text":"這個角色扮演就是我們希望"},{"start":2007.28,"end":2011.28,"text":"所有的專攻股的總總"},{"start":2011.28,"end":2014.28,"text":"以及我們財政部支持的"},{"start":2014.28,"end":2018.28,"text":"這些的董事長副董事長總經理都到"},{"start":2018.28,"end":2021.28,"text":"來提一提我們要談的"},{"start":2021.28,"end":2023.28,"text":"這個公共病的相關的問題"},{"start":2023.28,"end":2025.28,"text":"所以是不是請財政部"},{"start":2025.28,"end":2029.28,"text":"你請陳處長你打個電話給陳副董"},{"start":2029.28,"end":2030.28,"text":"請他到好不好"},{"start":2030.28,"end":2032.28,"text":"他可以不到沒關係"},{"start":2032.28,"end":2034.28,"text":"你就跟我回應說他不到好不好"},{"start":2034.28,"end":2036.28,"text":"你再打個電話可以嗎"},{"start":2045.28,"end":2047.28,"text":"主席的意見我們尊重"},{"start":2047.28,"end":2050.2799999999997,"text":"那是不是可以請董事長張董事長打電話"},{"start":2050.2799999999997,"end":2052.2799999999997,"text":"我沒有跟他有電話"},{"start":2052.2799999999997,"end":2055.2799999999997,"text":"好吧那張董事長你就打吧"},{"start":2055.2799999999997,"end":2060.2799999999997,"text":"張董事長你他請教的理由是因為參加董事會"},{"start":2060.2799999999997,"end":2062.2799999999997,"text":"董事會十一點半才開"},{"start":2062.2799999999997,"end":2064.2799999999997,"text":"所以不是理由好不好"},{"start":2064.2799999999997,"end":2066.2799999999997,"text":"可以嗎張董問可以嗎"},{"start":2068.2799999999997,"end":2070.2799999999997,"text":"可以吧你去打一下"},{"start":2075.28,"end":2078.28,"text":"我已經講他請教理由我知道"},{"start":2078.28,"end":2081.28,"text":"就是參加董事會嘛現在沒有董事會"},{"start":2082.28,"end":2084.28,"text":"沒有董事會我們怎麼"},{"start":2085.28,"end":2086.28,"text":"你回去打電話"},{"start":2086.28,"end":2088.28,"text":"他可以說不來沒關係"},{"start":2088.28,"end":2090.28,"text":"就是再讓他拒絕一次"},{"start":2090.28,"end":2091.28,"text":"就這樣子好不好"},{"start":2091.28,"end":2094.28,"text":"這個我是提醒財政部和總部長"},{"start":2094.28,"end":2096.28,"text":"我知道你為難了"},{"start":2096.28,"end":2098.28,"text":"你一足一百億也不是你決定的"},{"start":2098.28,"end":2100.28,"text":"有更高層決定的"},{"start":2100.28,"end":2102.28,"text":"這裡面我很擔心"},{"start":2102.28,"end":2105.28,"text":"如果不推動公共病的話"},{"start":2105.28,"end":2110.28,"text":"就變成過去二次精改的翻版"},{"start":2110.28,"end":2113.28,"text":"就政府白白的授權"},{"start":2113.28,"end":2116.28,"text":"圖利特定的財團"},{"start":2116.28,"end":2118.28,"text":"這個帽子很大"},{"start":2118.28,"end":2122.28,"text":"這個是簡單跟各位討論的提供"},{"start":2122.28,"end":2124.28,"text":"跟各位做這樣的說明"},{"start":2124.28,"end":2127.28,"text":"我們希望除了兩個票金"},{"start":2127.28,"end":2129.28,"text":"除了兩個票金是不是跟張銀合併"},{"start":2129.28,"end":2132.28,"text":"或者跟其他金融區合併之外"},{"start":2132.28,"end":2134.28,"text":"其他有關公共病的題目"},{"start":2134.28,"end":2136.28,"text":"大家可以一起來談"},{"start":2136.28,"end":2140.28,"text":"我介紹今天出席的貴賓五位學者"},{"start":2140.28,"end":2143.28,"text":"首先要按照新聞順序"},{"start":2143.28,"end":2147.28,"text":"台北商業大學的黃啟瑞院長"},{"start":2150.28,"end":2154.28,"text":"第二位是中央大學財務金融系的"},{"start":2154.28,"end":2157.28,"text":"黃瑞卿教授"},{"start":2159.28,"end":2163.28,"text":"第三位是台北大學科技系的"},{"start":2163.28,"end":2167.28,"text":"王逸興教授"},{"start":2168.28,"end":2174.28,"text":"第四位是台銀工會的林理事長"},{"start":2175.28,"end":2179.28,"text":"第五位是銀銀銀行工會的"},{"start":2179.28,"end":2183.28,"text":"第六位是金融工會的陳理事長"},{"start":2185.28,"end":2189.28,"text":"第六位是全國金融業工業聯合總會的"},{"start":2189.28,"end":2191.28,"text":"鍾理事長"},{"start":2194.28,"end":2201.28,"text":"第七位是華人金控工會的王理事長"},{"start":2202.28,"end":2207.28,"text":"以及聯合聯合的機關代表"},{"start":2207.28,"end":2210.28,"text":"財政部的莊部長"},{"start":2211.28,"end":2215.28,"text":"以及國共署的陳署長"},{"start":2216.28,"end":2220.28,"text":"台銀金控的林董事長"},{"start":2223.28,"end":2226.28,"text":"施總經理"},{"start":2227.28,"end":2230.28,"text":"以及土銀的何董事長"},{"start":2231.28,"end":2234.28,"text":"以及張總經理"},{"start":2235.28,"end":2241.28,"text":"以及趙峰金控的董事長"},{"start":2243.28,"end":2245.28,"text":"張總經理"},{"start":2247.28,"end":2250.28,"text":"以及第一金控的邱董事長"},{"start":2251.28,"end":2253.28,"text":"方總經理"},{"start":2254.28,"end":2258.28,"text":"華南金控的陳董事長"},{"start":2260.28,"end":2263.28,"text":"林副董事長"},{"start":2264.28,"end":2268.28,"text":"華南金控的林副董事長我再次肯定"},{"start":2268.28,"end":2271.28,"text":"他是副董事長"},{"start":2271.28,"end":2273.28,"text":"按照財政部長講法"},{"start":2273.28,"end":2276.28,"text":"事實上他今天好像很有權利不要來"},{"start":2276.28,"end":2278.28,"text":"但是他今天尊重我們立法院"},{"start":2278.28,"end":2280.28,"text":"我可以肯定"},{"start":2280.28,"end":2283.28,"text":"希望以後歷史的請你來看一下"},{"start":2284.28,"end":2286.28,"text":"以後你的觀眾越來越大了"},{"start":2286.28,"end":2287.28,"text":"聲音越來越大"},{"start":2287.28,"end":2289.28,"text":"祝福"},{"start":2289.28,"end":2292.28,"text":"邱總經理"},{"start":2294.28,"end":2297.28,"text":"合作金庫的林董事長"},{"start":2299.28,"end":2301.28,"text":"蘇總經理"},{"start":2303.28,"end":2306.28,"text":"以及張愛銀行的胡董事長"},{"start":2307.28,"end":2310.28,"text":"簡總經理"},{"start":2311.28,"end":2314.28,"text":"以及周曉慶的李董事長"},{"start":2316.28,"end":2318.28,"text":"李總經理"},{"start":2320.28,"end":2323.28,"text":"蘇出路營養的戴主席"},{"start":2325.28,"end":2327.28,"text":"謝總經理"},{"start":2329.28,"end":2334.28,"text":"以及董事長"},{"start":2337.28,"end":2340.28,"text":"副董事長請假"},{"start":2340.28,"end":2341.28,"text":"讓我們聯絡"},{"start":2341.28,"end":2343.28,"text":"看他最後決定怎麼樣"},{"start":2343.28,"end":2345.28,"text":"吳總經理"},{"start":2345.28,"end":2347.28,"text":"吳總經理"},{"start":2349.28,"end":2352.28,"text":"還有金管會的彭主委"},{"start":2354.28,"end":2358.28,"text":"銀行局的局長"},{"start":2360.28,"end":2361.28,"text":"是統區長"},{"start":2361.28,"end":2364.28,"text":"以及公平交易委員會的專門委員"},{"start":2364.28,"end":2366.28,"text":"專門委員 邱專門委員"},{"start":2369.28,"end":2371.28,"text":"我們現在就"},{"start":2371.28,"end":2373.28,"text":"我們原則上"},{"start":2373.28,"end":2375.28,"text":"每位專家學者8分鐘"},{"start":2375.28,"end":2377.28,"text":"結束前1分鐘"},{"start":2377.28,"end":2379.28,"text":"按鈴提醒"},{"start":2380.28,"end":2383.28,"text":"依照專家學者的簽到順序發言"},{"start":2383.28,"end":2386.28,"text":"委員有需要可以到發言台來登記"},{"start":2386.28,"end":2389.28,"text":"我們會插進適度的位置"},{"start":2389.28,"end":2391.28,"text":"我們還有委員"},{"start":2392.28,"end":2395.28,"text":"劉淑斌委員"},{"start":2399.28,"end":2402.28,"text":"委員可以發言每1分鐘"},{"start":2402.28,"end":2404.28,"text":"全部發言以後請"},{"start":2404.28,"end":2407.28,"text":"我們今天請財政部跟金管會"},{"start":2407.28,"end":2410.28,"text":"就全責整體的回應"},{"start":2410.28,"end":2413.28,"text":"現在請第一位學者專家黃啟瑞"},{"start":2413.28,"end":2415.28,"text":"發表意見請"},{"start":2421.28,"end":2426.28,"text":"主席還有莊部長彭主委"},{"start":2426.28,"end":2429.28,"text":"各位董總 各位媒體先進"},{"start":2429.28,"end":2431.28,"text":"還有我們專家學者"},{"start":2431.28,"end":2433.28,"text":"大家好 大家早安"},{"start":2433.28,"end":2436.28,"text":"這個放暑假看到這麼多人"},{"start":2436.28,"end":2438.28,"text":"滿興奮 滿開心的這樣"},{"start":2438.28,"end":2440.28,"text":"那大家一起為這個"},{"start":2440.28,"end":2443.28,"text":"我們財政部泛公股金融機構"},{"start":2443.28,"end":2446.28,"text":"面對競爭的這個競爭環境"},{"start":2446.28,"end":2448.28,"text":"那研擬更好的這個合作"},{"start":2448.28,"end":2450.28,"text":"合作跟環境"},{"start":2450.28,"end":2452.28,"text":"研擬更好的這個合併"},{"start":2452.28,"end":2454.28,"text":"或者提升競爭力的方法"},{"start":2454.28,"end":2456.28,"text":"我覺得這個非常重要"},{"start":2456.28,"end":2458.28,"text":"那也是很好的場合"},{"start":2458.28,"end":2460.28,"text":"大家可以齊聚一堂"},{"start":2460.28,"end":2464.28,"text":"思考更好的這個作為跟方法"},{"start":2464.28,"end":2467.28,"text":"針對這邊提出來的三大議題"},{"start":2467.28,"end":2470.28,"text":"分別這邊做一個報告"},{"start":2470.28,"end":2474.28,"text":"那也誠如剛剛各位桌上的書面資料"},{"start":2474.28,"end":2477.28,"text":"那有2頁這邊做一個簡單的整理"},{"start":2477.28,"end":2479.28,"text":"那我就只有這裡面的內容"},{"start":2479.28,"end":2482.28,"text":"分別針對三大議題做一個簡單的報告"},{"start":2482.28,"end":2485.28,"text":"那首先當然提升競爭力"},{"start":2485.28,"end":2488.28,"text":"提升股東價值是非常重要的事情"},{"start":2488.28,"end":2490.28,"text":"特別在這幾年來"},{"start":2490.28,"end":2493.28,"text":"那不管在這個民營金控"},{"start":2493.28,"end":2496.28,"text":"透過併購成長快速的擴張"},{"start":2496.28,"end":2499.28,"text":"那加上最近的這個金融科技"},{"start":2499.28,"end":2501.28,"text":"AI 財富管理跨境"},{"start":2501.28,"end":2504.28,"text":"國際金融市場競爭越來越激烈"},{"start":2504.28,"end":2506.28,"text":"那當然這個成長的方式非常多元"},{"start":2506.28,"end":2507.28,"text":"有很多種"},{"start":2507.28,"end":2509.28,"text":"那併購是其中一樣"},{"start":2509.28,"end":2510.28,"text":"那如果成功的話"},{"start":2510.28,"end":2512.28,"text":"可以有效的聚積資本"},{"start":2512.28,"end":2514.28,"text":"讓我們的收入更多元"},{"start":2514.28,"end":2516.28,"text":"那數位轉型國際競爭力"},{"start":2516.28,"end":2518.28,"text":"都有機會能夠提升"},{"start":2518.28,"end":2520.28,"text":"那不過我們從學理上"},{"start":2520.28,"end":2521.28,"text":"從理論上來看的話"},{"start":2521.28,"end":2523.28,"text":"那有兩個非常重要的前提"},{"start":2523.28,"end":2525.28,"text":"要能夠落實"},{"start":2525.28,"end":2528.28,"text":"才有機會發揮這些正面的效益"},{"start":2528.28,"end":2529.28,"text":"那當然第一大類型"},{"start":2529.28,"end":2530.28,"text":"第一個部分就是"},{"start":2530.28,"end":2534.28,"text":"要能夠創造收入方面的互補性跟忠孝"},{"start":2534.28,"end":2537.28,"text":"然後才能夠讓我們的這個純益收入"},{"start":2537.28,"end":2539.28,"text":"可以有效的提升"},{"start":2539.28,"end":2540.28,"text":"那第二部分"},{"start":2540.28,"end":2542.28,"text":"當然透過我們的這個併購"},{"start":2542.28,"end":2545.28,"text":"那併購的同時性的這個部分"},{"start":2545.28,"end":2548.28,"text":"有機會發揮規模經濟或範疇經濟"},{"start":2548.28,"end":2551.28,"text":"讓我們的這個經營成本可以下降"},{"start":2551.28,"end":2554.28,"text":"那接下來切入這個三個主題的部分"},{"start":2554.28,"end":2557.28,"text":"那第一個就是怎樣能夠增加"},{"start":2557.28,"end":2560.28,"text":"大家最關心的就是忠孝的部分"},{"start":2560.28,"end":2563.28,"text":"那經營效率可以1加1大於2大於3"},{"start":2563.28,"end":2564.28,"text":"那這部分"},{"start":2564.28,"end":2568.28,"text":"這部分當然在我們財務的健全性"},{"start":2568.28,"end":2570.28,"text":"業務的互補性"},{"start":2570.28,"end":2572.28,"text":"這部分要做一些評估"},{"start":2572.28,"end":2575.28,"text":"那有關在不管在資產管理"},{"start":2575.28,"end":2579.28,"text":"在信用卡在投信在資安在這個數據或後台"},{"start":2579.28,"end":2581.28,"text":"如果有沒有機會"},{"start":2581.28,"end":2582.28,"text":"剛剛講到的"},{"start":2582.28,"end":2586.28,"text":"除了收入方面的這個能夠互補性的"},{"start":2586.28,"end":2588.28,"text":"能夠找出來"},{"start":2588.28,"end":2589.28,"text":"那成本的部分"},{"start":2589.28,"end":2594.28,"text":"這些有沒有可以一起透過合併的來降低成本"},{"start":2594.28,"end":2598.28,"text":"那這個部分應該在可能在短期內"},{"start":2598.28,"end":2600.28,"text":"可能在一年到兩年的期間"},{"start":2600.28,"end":2603.28,"text":"可能要做一些比較深度的研究"},{"start":2603.28,"end":2606.28,"text":"那如果有這個可行性的話"},{"start":2606.28,"end":2609.28,"text":"接著針對客群產品通路"},{"start":2609.28,"end":2612.28,"text":"科技或海外互補的這些標的"},{"start":2612.28,"end":2614.28,"text":"那再來做評估"},{"start":2614.28,"end":2618.28,"text":"去拓展這個財富管理投資銀行或資產管理"},{"start":2618.28,"end":2620.28,"text":"國際化等等的"},{"start":2620.28,"end":2624.28,"text":"除了傳統的這個放款借貸的收入以外"},{"start":2624.28,"end":2629.28,"text":"可以增加更多的其他非利息收入的這些業務項目"},{"start":2629.28,"end":2633.28,"text":"那當然不只是看規模的這個水平橫向的擴大"},{"start":2633.28,"end":2636.28,"text":"那整併後到底能不能在各項的KPI"},{"start":2636.28,"end":2638.28,"text":"在這個不管在ROE、ROA"},{"start":2638.28,"end":2642.28,"text":"在收入在成本收入比非利息收入等等"},{"start":2642.28,"end":2645.28,"text":"這些還有我們這個資本健全性"},{"start":2645.28,"end":2647.28,"text":"跟資產的這個效率的部分"},{"start":2647.28,"end":2649.28,"text":"能夠一併的評估"},{"start":2649.28,"end":2651.28,"text":"那當然最後還有這個資訊系統"},{"start":2651.28,"end":2655.28,"text":"跟我們這個不同的金融機構"},{"start":2655.28,"end":2657.28,"text":"不同的文化再整合的部分"},{"start":2657.28,"end":2662.28,"text":"那這個產生的一些交易成本也要考慮進來"},{"start":2662.28,"end":2664.28,"text":"那第二部分"},{"start":2664.28,"end":2666.28,"text":"中校這個第一關"},{"start":2666.28,"end":2668.28,"text":"那第二關的部分當然就很重要的"},{"start":2668.28,"end":2670.28,"text":"我們員工權益的保障"},{"start":2670.28,"end":2675.28,"text":"讓我們員工的公會的這部分能夠參與"},{"start":2675.28,"end":2678.28,"text":"那相關的這個制度相關的規範"},{"start":2678.28,"end":2681.28,"text":"有些已經進入這個我們在"},{"start":2681.28,"end":2683.28,"text":"立院實施審查的這些法案"},{"start":2683.28,"end":2685.28,"text":"能夠有效率的進行"},{"start":2685.28,"end":2689.28,"text":"包括我們的這個員工的這個不確定性"},{"start":2689.28,"end":2692.28,"text":"組織的文化的衝突性等等的"},{"start":2692.28,"end":2695.28,"text":"那在我們的這個權益能夠在"},{"start":2695.28,"end":2697.28,"text":"獲到保障的前提下"},{"start":2697.28,"end":2699.28,"text":"包括我們的就業年資的保障"},{"start":2699.28,"end":2700.28,"text":"包括我們退休"},{"start":2700.28,"end":2703.28,"text":"還有這個薪資福利調動等等"},{"start":2703.28,"end":2705.28,"text":"這些是過渡性的安排"},{"start":2705.28,"end":2708.28,"text":"那當然還有包括我們人才的留任跟轉任"},{"start":2708.28,"end":2712.28,"text":"那特別是對這個IT資安風管財管"},{"start":2712.28,"end":2716.28,"text":"還有財外法尊的這些關鍵人才的留任機制"},{"start":2716.28,"end":2718.28,"text":"那另外就是如果有"},{"start":2718.28,"end":2721.28,"text":"因為節省下來的人力"},{"start":2721.28,"end":2723.28,"text":"那怎麼樣受過北訓再轉入"},{"start":2723.28,"end":2727.28,"text":"未來比較重要的成長關鍵領域"},{"start":2727.28,"end":2729.28,"text":"包括AI包括數位"},{"start":2729.28,"end":2730.28,"text":"我們重要的財管"},{"start":2730.28,"end":2733.28,"text":"像現在在金管會這個很有效率"},{"start":2733.28,"end":2735.28,"text":"在推動的這個亞資中心等等"},{"start":2735.28,"end":2736.28,"text":"還有永續金融"},{"start":2736.28,"end":2741.28,"text":"這個都需要滿這個高階的人力來做投入"},{"start":2741.28,"end":2743.28,"text":"那有關於第三個提綱的部分"},{"start":2743.28,"end":2748.28,"text":"怎麼樣保障我們少數股東跟公股的資產"},{"start":2748.28,"end":2750.28,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":2750.28,"end":2752.28,"text":"不管是在交易價格"},{"start":2752.28,"end":2754.28,"text":"換股比 忠孝等等的"},{"start":2754.28,"end":2758.28,"text":"這些當然也要符合公平專業管理"},{"start":2758.28,"end":2761.28,"text":"還有這個股東權益保障的這些原則"},{"start":2761.28,"end":2763.28,"text":"那多元去評估"},{"start":2763.28,"end":2764.28,"text":"那公平性這部分"},{"start":2764.28,"end":2767.28,"text":"公平這個有沒有超過"},{"start":2767.28,"end":2768.28,"text":"就是公平交易法"},{"start":2768.28,"end":2772.28,"text":"公平交易法的這個獨佔的這個部分"},{"start":2772.28,"end":2774.28,"text":"當然也是要去評估的"},{"start":2774.28,"end":2776.28,"text":"那所以簡單我們這邊做個整理"},{"start":2776.28,"end":2778.28,"text":"就是在忠孝的部分"},{"start":2778.28,"end":2779.28,"text":"在員工權益的部分"},{"start":2779.28,"end":2781.28,"text":"少數股東的保障"},{"start":2781.28,"end":2783.28,"text":"然後還有最後金融穩定性"},{"start":2783.28,"end":2785.28,"text":"金融韌性的這個部分"},{"start":2785.28,"end":2787.28,"text":"也要能夠經得起考驗"},{"start":2787.28,"end":2791.28,"text":"那特別是在不同的這個金融機構的整併的過程"},{"start":2791.28,"end":2793.28,"text":"那資訊系統的轉換"},{"start":2793.28,"end":2794.28,"text":"能不能順利"},{"start":2794.28,"end":2797.28,"text":"不要在資安的部分"},{"start":2797.28,"end":2801.28,"text":"或是營運的部分的風險能夠管控在一定的程度"},{"start":2801.28,"end":2806.28,"text":"那當然這些都需要非常多的這個分析跟評估"},{"start":2806.28,"end":2812.28,"text":"那這個也需要花費很多的這個精力來做規劃"},{"start":2812.28,"end":2813.28,"text":"那最後當然"},{"start":2813.28,"end":2816.28,"text":"在我們再講到這些事情"},{"start":2816.28,"end":2819.28,"text":"能夠順利能夠做好一定的評估的話"},{"start":2819.28,"end":2824.28,"text":"那併購當然是一個我們公股或是公股或泛公股"},{"start":2824.28,"end":2827.28,"text":"在成長非常重要的一個途徑跟路徑"},{"start":2827.28,"end":2832.28,"text":"那最後當然在提升我們這個公股的競爭力的同時"},{"start":2832.28,"end":2836.28,"text":"最後我想用一個我們在學校裡頭觀察到了一個趨勢"},{"start":2836.28,"end":2838.28,"text":"做一個簡單的分享"},{"start":2838.28,"end":2840.28,"text":"那當然我們剛剛談到這麼多"},{"start":2840.28,"end":2843.28,"text":"那金融機構要獲利不只在民股"},{"start":2843.28,"end":2846.28,"text":"這個這個民營也一樣"},{"start":2846.28,"end":2849.28,"text":"那這個要經營這些人才是最重要的"},{"start":2849.28,"end":2851.28,"text":"那人才制度薪資結構"},{"start":2851.28,"end":2854.28,"text":"那這部分可能要做一個比較徹底的評估"},{"start":2854.28,"end":2856.28,"text":"以上謝謝各位謝謝"},{"start":2858.28,"end":2861.28,"text":"謝謝黃院長的說明"},{"start":2861.28,"end":2866.28,"text":"現在請中央大學財經系的黃瑞欣教授請"},{"start":2873.28,"end":2875.28,"text":"好主席"},{"start":2875.28,"end":2877.28,"text":"各位先進大家好"},{"start":2877.28,"end":2880.28,"text":"我是中央大學財經系的主任黃瑞欣"},{"start":2880.28,"end":2883.28,"text":"那今天非常榮幸可以在這邊跟大家分享一下"},{"start":2883.28,"end":2887.28,"text":"那我對於這個M&A相關的這個了解"},{"start":2887.28,"end":2893.28,"text":"那今天因為有很多的這個學者專家"},{"start":2893.28,"end":2894.28,"text":"那時間也很有限"},{"start":2894.28,"end":2897.28,"text":"所以呢今天呢這個三個學者專家"},{"start":2897.28,"end":2899.28,"text":"我們會做一個分享"},{"start":2899.28,"end":2901.28,"text":"那時間也很有限"},{"start":2901.28,"end":2905.28,"text":"所以呢今天呢這個三個主要大的議題裡面"},{"start":2905.28,"end":2909.28,"text":"我想我就依照第一項的這個議題來跟大家分享"},{"start":2909.28,"end":2910.28,"text":"跟大家報告"},{"start":2910.28,"end":2913.28,"text":"也就是說怎麼樣透過詬病的程序來強化"},{"start":2913.28,"end":2916.28,"text":"泛公股金融機構的競爭力"},{"start":2916.28,"end":2920.28,"text":"那我想大家都同意我們現在的這個金融機構"},{"start":2920.28,"end":2923.28,"text":"面臨到非常嚴峻的挑戰"},{"start":2923.28,"end":2926.28,"text":"那第一個挑戰我想就是規模經濟的問題"},{"start":2926.28,"end":2930.28,"text":"我們也看到民營股的銀行或者是金融機構"},{"start":2930.28,"end":2934.28,"text":"他們在最近幾年進行大幅的這個大動作的這個整並"},{"start":2934.28,"end":2939.28,"text":"那關股銀行是不是可以透過這個我們的規模"},{"start":2939.28,"end":2942.28,"text":"然後來獲得更好的競爭力"},{"start":2942.28,"end":2945.28,"text":"那這個規模經濟呢在學界裡面都認為說"},{"start":2945.28,"end":2949.28,"text":"這個是在金融機構裡面非常重要的一個競爭力的來源"},{"start":2949.28,"end":2952.28,"text":"所以我想這個關股呢"},{"start":2952.28,"end":2955.28,"text":"是不是能夠擴大規模這是很重要的"},{"start":2955.28,"end":2958.28,"text":"第二個是有關於數位轉型的部分"},{"start":2958.28,"end":2961.28,"text":"那現在全世界都在做Fintech"},{"start":2961.28,"end":2965.28,"text":"或者是AI或是資安相關的這個議題"},{"start":2965.28,"end":2968.28,"text":"那關股呢這個部分也不能夠落後"},{"start":2968.28,"end":2971.28,"text":"第三個就是全球的佈局"},{"start":2971.28,"end":2973.28,"text":"那這個部分我們不用多說"},{"start":2973.28,"end":2977.28,"text":"就是怎麼樣來提升跨境的金融的這個服務的能力"},{"start":2977.28,"end":2979.28,"text":"還有最後就是範疇經濟"},{"start":2979.28,"end":2984.28,"text":"也就是我們在對於這個這個財富管理的部分"},{"start":2984.28,"end":2987.28,"text":"我們怎麼樣來進行強化"},{"start":2987.28,"end":2990.28,"text":"那可是從我們這裡看得出來是說"},{"start":2990.28,"end":2995.28,"text":"我們關股想要來最重要的挑戰是要來提升競爭力"},{"start":2995.28,"end":2998.28,"text":"合併呢應該是我們的手段是一個工具"},{"start":2998.28,"end":3000.28,"text":"那它不是唯一的工具"},{"start":3000.28,"end":3004.28,"text":"但是它是一個蠻不錯的我們可以思考的工具"},{"start":3004.28,"end":3008.28,"text":"那第二件事情我們想要看的事情是說"},{"start":3008.28,"end":3010.28,"text":"那這個整併呢我們應該"},{"start":3010.28,"end":3012.28,"text":"我們不應該問是說要還是不要"},{"start":3012.28,"end":3014.28,"text":"而是應該先問值不值得"},{"start":3014.28,"end":3018.28,"text":"譬如說它是不是能夠提升我們的最重要的目標"},{"start":3018.28,"end":3020.28,"text":"就是提升關股的競爭力"},{"start":3020.28,"end":3023.28,"text":"再來關股呢還有第二件事情非常的重要"},{"start":3023.28,"end":3028.28,"text":"因為我們有廣大的納稅的這個納稅人民在我們的背後"},{"start":3028.28,"end":3032.28,"text":"所以呢是否能夠提升納稅義務人的利益"},{"start":3032.28,"end":3034.28,"text":"這個是我們需要來考慮的"},{"start":3034.28,"end":3038.28,"text":"第三個當然我們還有我們背後的這個股東"},{"start":3038.28,"end":3041.28,"text":"因為很多的關股其實都是上市公司"},{"start":3041.28,"end":3043.28,"text":"上市公司要對我們的股東負責"},{"start":3043.28,"end":3048.28,"text":"最後一件事情就是這個詬病是不是具有可執行性"},{"start":3048.28,"end":3052.28,"text":"這個是在詬病是否能夠成功一個很重要的因素"},{"start":3052.28,"end":3055.28,"text":"所以我個人認為是說這四件條件呢"},{"start":3055.28,"end":3057.28,"text":"如果沒有辦法同時成立的時候"},{"start":3057.28,"end":3059.28,"text":"我們可以審慎的評估"},{"start":3059.28,"end":3063.28,"text":"那關股在詬病的時候有沒有什麼重要的原則呢"},{"start":3063.28,"end":3067.28,"text":"我個人覺得可能有五項的原則可以參考一下"},{"start":3067.28,"end":3070.28,"text":"第一個呢我們可以用策略來互補"},{"start":3070.28,"end":3073.28,"text":"不是說大的公司要併小的公司"},{"start":3073.28,"end":3075.28,"text":"而是我們在策略發展上面"},{"start":3075.28,"end":3079.28,"text":"我們怎麼樣來讓我們的競爭力彼此的提升"},{"start":3079.28,"end":3082.28,"text":"第二個呢所有的詬病案其實都應該尊重專業"},{"start":3082.28,"end":3085.28,"text":"因為M&A是一個非常專業的問題"},{"start":3085.28,"end":3088.28,"text":"所以呢它的成本效益分析要做好"},{"start":3088.28,"end":3091.28,"text":"第三個呢就是不應該為因為"},{"start":3091.28,"end":3094.28,"text":"我們要做M&A來犧牲公司治理"},{"start":3094.28,"end":3099.28,"text":"公司治理是公司營運永續下去最重要的一個重要的因素"},{"start":3099.28,"end":3105.28,"text":"第四個呢就是我們需要兼顧員工小股東跟納稅人的權益"},{"start":3105.28,"end":3111.28,"text":"最後一個很重要就是要能夠建立透明的決策的程序"},{"start":3112.28,"end":3115.28,"text":"那這個詬病的評估制度裡面呢"},{"start":3115.28,"end":3118.28,"text":"我想這個是很標準的就是我們要建立目標"},{"start":3118.28,"end":3120.28,"text":"進行這個成本效益的分析"},{"start":3120.28,"end":3122.28,"text":"然後呢公司治理的評估"},{"start":3122.28,"end":3126.28,"text":"還有剛剛黃院長提到的這個公平競爭的問題"},{"start":3126.28,"end":3133.28,"text":"我們會不會因為M&A之後使得市場的這個競爭性受到扭曲"},{"start":3133.28,"end":3135.28,"text":"還有呢就是社會成本的分析"},{"start":3135.28,"end":3138.28,"text":"再來決定是否要進行整病"},{"start":3138.28,"end":3140.28,"text":"那既然是學者專家"},{"start":3140.28,"end":3142.28,"text":"所以我想我整理了一個文獻"},{"start":3142.28,"end":3148.28,"text":"那這個文獻呢是刊登在一個國際上面非常好的財務的期刊"},{"start":3148.28,"end":3154.28,"text":"這個文章裡面它整理了超過150篇的國際上面的論文"},{"start":3154.28,"end":3159.28,"text":"然後它來整理說那個病會成功還是失敗的主要的原因有哪一些"},{"start":3159.28,"end":3162.28,"text":"那發現有三點是非常重要的成功的因素"},{"start":3162.28,"end":3165.28,"text":"第一個就是公司治理"},{"start":3165.28,"end":3169.28,"text":"那公司治理裡面包含就是股東的監督的能力"},{"start":3169.28,"end":3172.28,"text":"像光谷裡面我們的財政部的監督能力"},{"start":3172.28,"end":3177.28,"text":"還有就是各位董總我們所設立的這個董事會"},{"start":3177.28,"end":3179.28,"text":"它的制度是否健全"},{"start":3179.28,"end":3181.28,"text":"那當然CEO也很重要"},{"start":3181.28,"end":3183.28,"text":"那我們的CEO是不是overconfident"},{"start":3183.28,"end":3187.28,"text":"或者是它的風險態度也會影響到這個部分"},{"start":3187.28,"end":3189.28,"text":"第二個是策略的配置性"},{"start":3189.28,"end":3193.28,"text":"譬如說整個發展策略是否具有相容性"},{"start":3193.28,"end":3195.28,"text":"還有企業的文化"},{"start":3195.28,"end":3198.28,"text":"所以像公民病的話我們需要考慮"},{"start":3198.28,"end":3203.28,"text":"因為我們的公股銀行跟民營銀行或者是說金融機構"},{"start":3203.28,"end":3205.28,"text":"它的企業文化有比較大的差異性"},{"start":3205.28,"end":3207.28,"text":"所以需要審慎的評估"},{"start":3207.28,"end":3209.28,"text":"第三個就是整合能力"},{"start":3209.28,"end":3212.28,"text":"所以像我們提到的IT的整合能力"},{"start":3212.28,"end":3216.28,"text":"像一個詬病是否能夠有快速的完成"},{"start":3216.28,"end":3218.28,"text":"IT非常重要"},{"start":3218.28,"end":3220.28,"text":"還有人才的整合"},{"start":3220.28,"end":3222.28,"text":"也就是薪資制度的一個整合"},{"start":3222.28,"end":3225.28,"text":"我想這個是相當重要的問題"},{"start":3225.28,"end":3228.28,"text":"那另外一個論文他有提到是說"},{"start":3228.28,"end":3232.28,"text":"這個金融的整病它的真正的縱效是來自於revenue的synergy"},{"start":3232.28,"end":3234.28,"text":"也就是說整個的收益的擴展"},{"start":3234.28,"end":3238.28,"text":"那成本的下降可能並不是一個主要的synergy"},{"start":3238.28,"end":3240.28,"text":"那為什麼會失敗呢"},{"start":3240.28,"end":3243.28,"text":"那學者專家也整理了兩個重要的原因"},{"start":3243.28,"end":3245.28,"text":"一個就是連續的詬病"},{"start":3245.28,"end":3249.28,"text":"那連續的詬病會造成管理資源的被分散"},{"start":3249.28,"end":3254.28,"text":"然後沒有辦法從第一次或是前一次的交易獲得我們的經驗"},{"start":3254.28,"end":3256.28,"text":"所以整合能力會下降"},{"start":3256.28,"end":3259.28,"text":"那現在我們曉得說公股正在進行"},{"start":3259.28,"end":3262.28,"text":"我們在討論這個有一部分的整病的問題"},{"start":3262.28,"end":3263.28,"text":"四合一的問題"},{"start":3263.28,"end":3266.28,"text":"那是不是要在這個時間點來啟動"},{"start":3266.28,"end":3270.28,"text":"在這個時間點來啟動下一次的M&A是需要考慮的"},{"start":3270.28,"end":3273.28,"text":"我們或許可以等到這個未來"},{"start":3273.28,"end":3277.28,"text":"在這一次的M&A的經驗得到好的結果之後"},{"start":3277.28,"end":3280.28,"text":"再來想下一次的這個詬病的情況"},{"start":3280.28,"end":3283.28,"text":"第二個是非核心業務的整病"},{"start":3283.28,"end":3285.28,"text":"非核心業務指的是說每一個"},{"start":3285.28,"end":3287.28,"text":"其實像在座的每一個官股"},{"start":3287.28,"end":3290.28,"text":"都有自己的核心的競爭能力"},{"start":3290.28,"end":3291.28,"text":"那這個核心的競爭能力呢"},{"start":3291.28,"end":3294.28,"text":"是否我們需要讓每一個公股的這個"},{"start":3294.28,"end":3296.28,"text":"我們的這個金控"},{"start":3296.28,"end":3298.28,"text":"每一個子公司都有嗎"},{"start":3298.28,"end":3300.28,"text":"每一個方選都需要有嗎"},{"start":3300.28,"end":3301.28,"text":"其實是不一定的"},{"start":3301.28,"end":3303.28,"text":"因為在非核心的業務的整病"},{"start":3303.28,"end":3306.28,"text":"如果有他其實是有困難的"},{"start":3306.28,"end":3308.28,"text":"就是說整病的困難"},{"start":3308.28,"end":3310.28,"text":"那所以最後呢"},{"start":3310.28,"end":3312.28,"text":"再回應到我們這個問題"},{"start":3312.28,"end":3314.28,"text":"怎麼樣透過這個詬病的程序來強化"},{"start":3314.28,"end":3317.28,"text":"這個金融公股的金融機構的競爭能力"},{"start":3317.28,"end":3318.28,"text":"大概有三點"},{"start":3318.28,"end":3320.28,"text":"第一個應該是要先健全"},{"start":3320.28,"end":3322.28,"text":"各個公司的公司治理的能力"},{"start":3324.28,"end":3327.28,"text":"這個是重要的"},{"start":3327.28,"end":3330.28,"text":"第二個是提升資訊的整合能力"},{"start":3330.28,"end":3331.28,"text":"我們現在就可以做"},{"start":3331.28,"end":3334.28,"text":"在透過一個這個共同的平台"},{"start":3334.28,"end":3336.28,"text":"來進行資訊的整合"},{"start":3336.28,"end":3339.28,"text":"來提升未來可能M&A的成功的機率"},{"start":3339.28,"end":3342.28,"text":"第三個就是要避免平凡的詬病"},{"start":3342.28,"end":3344.28,"text":"所以我們應該要做的是"},{"start":3344.28,"end":3346.28,"text":"這樣的話"},{"start":3346.28,"end":3347.28,"text":"這樣子的話"},{"start":3347.28,"end":3349.28,"text":"我們的未來這個M&A的"},{"start":3349.28,"end":3352.28,"text":"我們的這個光股的競爭力才可以提升"},{"start":3352.28,"end":3355.28,"text":"最後還是要非常感謝這個大會的邀請"},{"start":3355.28,"end":3357.28,"text":"讓我這邊可以跟大家報告我的心得"},{"start":3357.28,"end":3359.28,"text":"那以上謝謝大家"},{"start":3361.28,"end":3366.28,"text":"謝謝黃主任黃教授的發言"},{"start":3366.28,"end":3370.28,"text":"下一位請特別關心系的王怡心教授"},{"start":3370.28,"end":3372.28,"text":"王怡心教授請"},{"start":3376.28,"end":3378.28,"text":"今天大會的主席賴委員"},{"start":3378.28,"end":3380.28,"text":"還有我們立法委員劉委員"},{"start":3380.28,"end":3382.28,"text":"然後財政部莊部長"},{"start":3382.28,"end":3384.28,"text":"經委會彭主委"},{"start":3384.28,"end":3386.28,"text":"還有各位長官"},{"start":3386.28,"end":3388.28,"text":"還有我們今天這麼多金控的董事長"},{"start":3388.28,"end":3390.28,"text":"跟總經理學者專家"},{"start":3390.28,"end":3393.28,"text":"媒體先生小姐大家早安大家好"},{"start":3393.28,"end":3396.28,"text":"那我想在這個黃院長"},{"start":3396.28,"end":3398.28,"text":"跟黃主任的發言"},{"start":3398.28,"end":3400.28,"text":"還有我們今天這麼多的經理"},{"start":3400.28,"end":3402.28,"text":"還有我們今天這麼多的經理"},{"start":3402.28,"end":3404.28,"text":"還有我們今天這麼多的經理"},{"start":3404.28,"end":3406.28,"text":"那在這個黃院長跟黃主任之後"},{"start":3406.28,"end":3408.28,"text":"發言其實也蠻緊張的"},{"start":3408.28,"end":3410.28,"text":"因為他們該講都講了"},{"start":3410.28,"end":3412.28,"text":"那我就從三個"},{"start":3412.28,"end":3413.28,"text":"因為三題嘛"},{"start":3413.28,"end":3415.28,"text":"我就從三個重點來報告"},{"start":3416.28,"end":3418.28,"text":"那我想第一個等於說"},{"start":3418.28,"end":3420.28,"text":"我會從這個經營績效"},{"start":3420.28,"end":3422.28,"text":"跟這個併購策略"},{"start":3422.28,"end":3424.28,"text":"這是我要談的第一論述"},{"start":3424.28,"end":3426.28,"text":"然後第二論述我要談的是"},{"start":3426.28,"end":3428.28,"text":"勞工權益跟原本治理"},{"start":3428.28,"end":3430.28,"text":"那第三我要談的論述是"},{"start":3430.28,"end":3432.28,"text":"資產價值跟股東權益"},{"start":3432.28,"end":3434.28,"text":"那首先我先談這個"},{"start":3434.28,"end":3437.28,"text":"經營績效跟併購的這個策略"},{"start":3437.28,"end":3440.28,"text":"基本上這個我個人的立場"},{"start":3440.28,"end":3443.28,"text":"在今天參加這場公聽會"},{"start":3443.28,"end":3446.28,"text":"我的立場是支持公共病"},{"start":3446.28,"end":3448.28,"text":"那我想這跟今天主席"},{"start":3448.28,"end":3450.28,"text":"開始的定的調也是相同的"},{"start":3450.28,"end":3452.28,"text":"那為什麼因為我自己"},{"start":3452.28,"end":3454.28,"text":"在第一金代表財政部"},{"start":3454.28,"end":3456.28,"text":"當官股董事"},{"start":3456.28,"end":3458.28,"text":"也歷經了六任的董事長"},{"start":3458.28,"end":3460.28,"text":"所以對這個公聽會"},{"start":3460.28,"end":3462.28,"text":"所以在這個官股推動的時候"},{"start":3462.28,"end":3464.28,"text":"那在這個經營策略上"},{"start":3464.28,"end":3466.28,"text":"其實我建議說可以從這個"},{"start":3466.28,"end":3468.28,"text":"功能性的整併開始"},{"start":3468.28,"end":3471.28,"text":"那譬如說報章雜誌講了很多"},{"start":3471.28,"end":3473.28,"text":"可以從這個創投啦"},{"start":3473.28,"end":3475.28,"text":"或是從投信啊"},{"start":3475.28,"end":3477.28,"text":"這種各個這個官股裡面"},{"start":3477.28,"end":3480.28,"text":"這個金控比較小的這個子公司"},{"start":3480.28,"end":3482.28,"text":"先看功能性能不能整併"},{"start":3482.28,"end":3484.28,"text":"那我現在就先談到"},{"start":3484.28,"end":3486.28,"text":"這個經營策略"},{"start":3486.28,"end":3488.28,"text":"那我先談到"},{"start":3488.28,"end":3490.28,"text":"先看功能性能不能整併"},{"start":3490.28,"end":3492.28,"text":"尤其可以從後勤的"},{"start":3492.28,"end":3494.28,"text":"這些資訊系統"},{"start":3494.28,"end":3496.28,"text":"跟這財務上就是"},{"start":3496.28,"end":3498.28,"text":"人事上的訓練先開始整併"},{"start":3498.28,"end":3500.28,"text":"那大家融合以後"},{"start":3500.28,"end":3502.28,"text":"再去走大的"},{"start":3502.28,"end":3504.28,"text":"那再來就是說"},{"start":3504.28,"end":3506.28,"text":"因為整併談到資產的這個"},{"start":3506.28,"end":3508.28,"text":"這個公允價值"},{"start":3508.28,"end":3510.28,"text":"所以呢其實過去"},{"start":3510.28,"end":3512.28,"text":"不管是什麼樣的病"},{"start":3512.28,"end":3514.28,"text":"所以公司病都很多詬病"},{"start":3514.28,"end":3516.28,"text":"就是說這個"},{"start":3516.28,"end":3518.28,"text":"私是以小吃大"},{"start":3518.28,"end":3520.28,"text":"明明看這個私的這個企業這麼小"},{"start":3520.28,"end":3522.28,"text":"我工的這麼大"},{"start":3522.28,"end":3524.28,"text":"為什麼還被他病呢"},{"start":3524.28,"end":3526.28,"text":"重點在私人企業"},{"start":3526.28,"end":3528.28,"text":"他已經用公允價值"},{"start":3528.28,"end":3530.28,"text":"現在價值評價過"},{"start":3530.28,"end":3532.28,"text":"那公家都是用歷史成本"},{"start":3532.28,"end":3534.28,"text":"所以公家怎麼算都會"},{"start":3534.28,"end":3536.28,"text":"低於這個限值"},{"start":3536.28,"end":3538.28,"text":"因為你十年前的一塊錢"},{"start":3538.28,"end":3540.28,"text":"跟今天是不一樣的"},{"start":3540.28,"end":3542.28,"text":"所以這我知道支持就是說"},{"start":3542.28,"end":3544.28,"text":"請大家支持我們快援基金會的"},{"start":3544.28,"end":3546.28,"text":"公允價值他們評價準則"},{"start":3546.28,"end":3548.28,"text":"把它做好"},{"start":3548.28,"end":3550.28,"text":"那再來就是我們要"},{"start":3550.28,"end":3552.28,"text":"防止這個資產賤賣"},{"start":3552.28,"end":3554.28,"text":"這個是很重要因為如果公允價值"},{"start":3554.28,"end":3556.28,"text":"透明那我覺得這樣子"},{"start":3556.28,"end":3558.28,"text":"併購策略就有一些基礎"},{"start":3558.28,"end":3560.28,"text":"那因為員工"},{"start":3560.28,"end":3562.28,"text":"主管"},{"start":3562.28,"end":3564.28,"text":"都是公司的資產"},{"start":3564.28,"end":3566.28,"text":"所以我第二個論述是"},{"start":3566.28,"end":3568.28,"text":"勞工的權益跟原本的治理"},{"start":3568.28,"end":3570.28,"text":"所以呢我們要有制度化的"},{"start":3570.28,"end":3572.28,"text":"這個安置"},{"start":3572.28,"end":3574.28,"text":"透明的永續揭露"},{"start":3574.28,"end":3576.28,"text":"那首先我們等於說"},{"start":3576.28,"end":3578.28,"text":"針對"},{"start":3578.28,"end":3580.28,"text":"我們勞工的工作權"},{"start":3580.28,"end":3582.28,"text":"我們要先盤點"},{"start":3582.28,"end":3584.28,"text":"我們到底有多少人才"},{"start":3584.28,"end":3586.28,"text":"然後再盤點哪些人想"},{"start":3586.28,"end":3588.28,"text":"這個優退"},{"start":3588.28,"end":3590.28,"text":"那哪些人要留任"},{"start":3590.28,"end":3592.28,"text":"那把這些優退的怎麼把它辦好"},{"start":3592.28,"end":3594.28,"text":"那留任怎麼讓留任"},{"start":3594.28,"end":3596.28,"text":"那再來就是說"},{"start":3596.28,"end":3598.28,"text":"我們針對這個新的"},{"start":3598.28,"end":3600.28,"text":"組織以後"},{"start":3600.28,"end":3602.28,"text":"我們董事會是不是能設一席"},{"start":3602.28,"end":3604.28,"text":"勞工董事"},{"start":3604.28,"end":3606.28,"text":"讓他也代表勞工"},{"start":3606.28,"end":3608.28,"text":"來表達他的意見"},{"start":3608.28,"end":3610.28,"text":"同時呢我們因為"},{"start":3610.28,"end":3612.28,"text":"要併就是要有競爭力"},{"start":3612.28,"end":3614.28,"text":"尤其在這個AI數位"},{"start":3614.28,"end":3616.28,"text":"金融時代真是需要"},{"start":3616.28,"end":3618.28,"text":"一些優秀人才"},{"start":3618.28,"end":3620.28,"text":"那優秀人才沒有給他好的條件"},{"start":3620.28,"end":3622.28,"text":"是不可能的"},{"start":3622.28,"end":3624.28,"text":"所以在薪資上也不要設那種"},{"start":3624.28,"end":3626.28,"text":"很奇怪的天花板"},{"start":3626.28,"end":3628.28,"text":"要符合國際市場行情"},{"start":3628.28,"end":3630.28,"text":"的薪水"},{"start":3630.28,"end":3632.28,"text":"他只要辦得到"},{"start":3632.28,"end":3634.28,"text":"那你就要給他合理待遇"},{"start":3634.28,"end":3636.28,"text":"天平兩邊秤才會永續"},{"start":3636.28,"end":3638.28,"text":"那第三個也就是"},{"start":3638.28,"end":3640.28,"text":"從今年叫做"},{"start":3640.28,"end":3642.28,"text":"永續元年"},{"start":3642.28,"end":3644.28,"text":"所以這個資本額100以上公司"},{"start":3644.28,"end":3646.28,"text":"明年三月份年報"},{"start":3646.28,"end":3648.28,"text":"就永續專章"},{"start":3648.28,"end":3650.28,"text":"我想彭主委在這邊非常熟"},{"start":3650.28,"end":3652.28,"text":"這部分"},{"start":3652.28,"end":3654.28,"text":"所以我們今天金控幾乎都是"},{"start":3654.28,"end":3656.28,"text":"第一階的公司"},{"start":3656.28,"end":3658.28,"text":"所以我們永續專章上就要揭露"},{"start":3658.28,"end":3660.28,"text":"你的這些併購策略"},{"start":3660.28,"end":3662.28,"text":"你怎麼善待你的員工"},{"start":3662.28,"end":3664.28,"text":"你怎麼未來的部分"},{"start":3664.28,"end":3666.28,"text":"你今年寫明年的"},{"start":3666.28,"end":3668.28,"text":"那到明年我們就看你有沒有在做"},{"start":3668.28,"end":3670.28,"text":"所以永續的這條路上"},{"start":3670.28,"end":3672.28,"text":"是大家要把話說清楚"},{"start":3672.28,"end":3674.28,"text":"講明白落實來做"},{"start":3674.28,"end":3676.28,"text":"所以我們倡議的是"},{"start":3676.28,"end":3678.28,"text":"永續行動化跟永續財務化"},{"start":3678.28,"end":3680.28,"text":"第三個論述"},{"start":3680.28,"end":3682.28,"text":"我要談的是"},{"start":3682.28,"end":3684.28,"text":"資產價值跟股東權益"},{"start":3684.28,"end":3686.28,"text":"因為我前面就說"},{"start":3686.28,"end":3688.28,"text":"我們的資產要經過"},{"start":3688.28,"end":3690.28,"text":"公允價值的一個評論"},{"start":3690.28,"end":3692.28,"text":"符合市場的需求"},{"start":3692.28,"end":3694.28,"text":"所以我們在"},{"start":3694.28,"end":3696.28,"text":"不動產部分"},{"start":3696.28,"end":3698.28,"text":"要把市值算清楚"},{"start":3698.28,"end":3700.28,"text":"現在有AI的時代"},{"start":3700.28,"end":3702.28,"text":"而且資訊比較透明是比較容易的"},{"start":3702.28,"end":3704.28,"text":"不像早期這麼不容易"},{"start":3704.28,"end":3706.28,"text":"而且現在評價的準則"},{"start":3706.28,"end":3708.28,"text":"不管是有形資產"},{"start":3708.28,"end":3710.28,"text":"無形資產"},{"start":3710.28,"end":3712.28,"text":"都有很好的基礎可以來算"},{"start":3712.28,"end":3714.28,"text":"再來等於說"},{"start":3714.28,"end":3716.28,"text":"我們對股東"},{"start":3716.28,"end":3718.28,"text":"也要公平對待"},{"start":3718.28,"end":3720.28,"text":"我們要算是股東權益"},{"start":3720.28,"end":3722.28,"text":"比例要很清楚"},{"start":3722.28,"end":3724.28,"text":"我們可以聘請會計師"},{"start":3724.28,"end":3726.28,"text":"依據審計"},{"start":3726.28,"end":3728.28,"text":"確診準則"},{"star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942.28,"text":"到底是由誰來併"},{"start":3942.28,"end":3944.28,"text":"國票金"},{"start":3944.28,"end":3946.28,"text":"是聽到下面的"},{"start":3946.28,"end":3948.28,"text":"是張銀第一金"},{"start":3948.28,"end":3950.28,"text":"招風金還是其他公股機構"},{"start":3950.28,"end":3952.28,"text":"這不能用政治決定"},{"start":3952.28,"end":3954.28,"text":"而是要提出客觀的評估"},{"start":3954.28,"end":3956.28,"text":"國票金最大的問題"},{"start":3956.28,"end":3958.28,"text":"是缺乏銀行通路"},{"start":3958.28,"end":3960.28,"text":"因此整併必須回答"},{"start":3960.28,"end":3962.28,"text":"三個問題"},{"start":3962.28,"end":3964.28,"text":"第一能不能補足銀行業務及通路"},{"start":3964.28,"end":3966.28,"text":"第二"},{"start":3966.28,"end":3968.28,"text":"能不能降低重複成本"},{"start":3968.28,"end":3970.28,"text":"提升股東權益報酬率"},{"start":3970.28,"end":3972.28,"text":"ROE與美股的盈餘"},{"start":3972.28,"end":3974.28,"text":"EPS"},{"start":3974.28,"end":3976.28,"text":"第三"},{"start":3976.28,"end":3978.28,"text":"能不能擴大規模"},{"start":3978.28,"end":3980.28,"text":"提高國際競爭力"},{"start":3980.28,"end":3982.28,"text":"如果答案都是否定的"},{"start":3982.28,"end":3984.28,"text":"那就沒有必要為併而併"},{"start":3984.28,"end":3986.28,"text":"我要提醒財政部"},{"start":3986.28,"end":3988.28,"text":"金管會已經說得很清楚了"},{"start":3988.28,"end":3990.28,"text":"金融整併"},{"start":3990.28,"end":3992.28,"text":"由業者依公私"},{"start":3992.28,"end":3994.28,"text":"治理來決定"},{"start":3994.28,"end":3996.28,"text":"第二"},{"start":3996.28,"end":3998.28,"text":"泛公股涉及公股股權處理"},{"start":3998.28,"end":4000.28,"text":"財政部不能把這個球"},{"start":4000.28,"end":4002.28,"text":"再丟給金管會了"},{"start":4002.28,"end":4004.28,"text":"因此本席提出"},{"start":4004.28,"end":4006.28,"text":"三點訴求"},{"start":4006.28,"end":4008.28,"text":"希望財政部三個月"},{"start":4008.28,"end":4010.28,"text":"提出泛公股金融機構"},{"start":4010.28,"end":4012.28,"text":"治理準則"},{"start":4012.28,"end":4014.28,"text":"明確的規範"},{"start":4014.28,"end":4016.28,"text":"董事判認"},{"start":4016.28,"end":4018.28,"text":"高階薪酬"},{"start":4018.28,"end":4020.28,"text":"績效考核及重大投資決策"},{"start":4020.28,"end":4022.28,"text":"第二"},{"start":4022.28,"end":4024.28,"text":"全面檢討國票金"},{"start":4024.28,"end":4026.28,"text":"付董事長的職位"},{"start":4026.28,"end":4028.28,"text":"薪酬與績效的連結"},{"start":4028.28,"end":4030.28,"text":"不能讓泛公股成為"},{"start":4030.28,"end":4032.28,"text":"監督的灰色地帶"},{"start":4032.28,"end":4034.28,"text":"第三"},{"start":4034.28,"end":4036.28,"text":"半年內提出國票金整併的"},{"start":4036.28,"end":4038.28,"text":"可行性評估"},{"start":4038.28,"end":4040.28,"text":"公開比較不同"},{"start":4040.28,"end":4042.28,"text":"公股機構整併的成本"},{"start":4042.28,"end":4044.28,"text":"綜合績效"},{"start":4044.28,"end":4046.28,"text":"股東權益及公會"},{"start":4046.28,"end":4048.28,"text":"與員工的權益"},{"start":4048.28,"end":4050.28,"text":"尤其是員工的薪資"},{"start":4050.28,"end":4052.28,"text":"國民應該具備合理的競爭性"},{"start":4052.28,"end":4054.28,"text":"才能留住人才"},{"start":4054.28,"end":4056.28,"text":"來維持公股銀行的競爭力"},{"start":4058.28,"end":4060.28,"text":"本席支持金融整併"},{"start":4060.28,"end":4062.28,"text":"但我們要的是專業整併"},{"start":4062.28,"end":4064.28,"text":"不是政治整併"},{"start":4064.28,"end":4066.28,"text":"要的是提升競爭力"},{"start":4066.28,"end":4068.28,"text":"不是重新分配位子"},{"start":4068.28,"end":4070.28,"text":"既然政府取得國票金主導權"},{"start":4070.28,"end":4072.28,"text":"就必須向全民交代"},{"start":4072.28,"end":4074.28,"text":"拿到經營權之後"},{"start":4074.28,"end":4076.28,"text":"究竟要把國票金"},{"start":4076.28,"end":4078.28,"text":"帶到哪裡去"},{"start":4078.28,"end":4080.28,"text":"政府委員會會繼續來監督這件事情"},{"start":4108.28,"end":4122.28,"text":"主席賴委員以及我們部長還有主委"},{"start":4122.28,"end":4126.28,"text":"以及各位董總大家早安大家好"},{"start":4128.28,"end":4134.28,"text":"今天我們來講到這個公股合併的問題"},{"start":4134.28,"end":4136.28,"text":"說實在的"},{"start":4136.28,"end":4140.28,"text":"今天台灣人如果跟台人合併"},{"start":4140.28,"end":4142.28,"text":"叫台灣台人"},{"start":4142.28,"end":4146.28,"text":"今天如果是台灣人來"},{"start":4146.28,"end":4150.28,"text":"讓台人和平的時候"},{"start":4150.28,"end":4154.28,"text":"今天我們絕對拉雙手"},{"start":4154.28,"end":4156.28,"text":"雙腳搬命也大行"},{"start":4156.28,"end":4158.28,"text":"因為我們的財務福利比他們差"},{"start":4158.28,"end":4162.28,"text":"如果今天他們要讓台人併"},{"start":4162.28,"end":4164.28,"text":"他們的工會一定反對"},{"start":4164.28,"end":4170.28,"text":"他們的薪水從20萬來減到10萬他們一定不要的"},{"start":4170.28,"end":4172.28,"text":"你說變得問題"},{"start":4172.28,"end":4174.28,"text":"這個是最大問題"},{"start":4174.28,"end":4176.28,"text":"要怎麼進去講到這個"},{"start":4176.28,"end":4182.28,"text":"其實今年一個放工股的公會的理事長"},{"start":4182.28,"end":4184.28,"text":"他退休的時候"},{"start":4184.28,"end":4186.28,"text":"他說他一國的薪水20萬多"},{"start":4186.28,"end":4190.28,"text":"我說蛤你的薪水比我們董事長還要多"},{"start":4190.28,"end":4192.28,"text":"我們董事長一國的沒有到20萬"},{"start":4192.28,"end":4194.28,"text":"你有20萬"},{"start":4194.28,"end":4196.28,"text":"21萬多這樣子的話合理嗎"},{"start":4196.28,"end":4202.28,"text":"今天我們董總雖然是我們官派來我們這邊"},{"start":4202.28,"end":4206.28,"text":"來台灣金控當董總"},{"start":4206.28,"end":4208.28,"text":"但是他所負的責任"},{"start":4208.28,"end":4214.28,"text":"會比一般的放工股銀行還有民營銀行的責任低嗎"},{"start":4214.28,"end":4216.28,"text":"沒有他的職業也是一樣很重"},{"start":4216.28,"end":4222.28,"text":"他要付所有銀行所有盈餘"},{"start":4222.28,"end":4224.28,"text":"還有一些作業風險上"},{"start":4224.28,"end":4226.28,"text":"他負的責任是非常大"},{"start":4226.28,"end":4228.28,"text":"結果他的薪水一國沒有到20萬"},{"start":4228.28,"end":4230.28,"text":"這樣子的話應該是"},{"start":4230.28,"end":4232.28,"text":"我是認為一站在公會的立場"},{"start":4232.28,"end":4236.28,"text":"是要把董總薪資的拉高"},{"start":4236.28,"end":4238.28,"text":"因為你負重的"},{"start":4238.28,"end":4244.28,"text":"再來我們要單位主管以及員工的待遇及福利才會提高"},{"start":4244.28,"end":4250.28,"text":"沒有你沒辦法去優管大家同仁的福利以及待遇"},{"start":4250.28,"end":4254.28,"text":"再來我們來看一個"},{"start":4256.28,"end":4258.28,"text":"我們一個薪資制度"},{"start":4258.28,"end":4262.28,"text":"今天我們台灣銀行"},{"start":4262.28,"end":4268.28,"text":"我們就是調薪的時候就是沒有一個非常嚴謹"},{"start":4268.28,"end":4272.28,"text":"因為沒辦法就是每兩年要檢討錢"},{"start":4272.28,"end":4274.28,"text":"就是每兩年要檢討一次"},{"start":4274.28,"end":4278.28,"text":"檢討一次是要符合你的指標"},{"start":4278.28,"end":4280.28,"text":"我們才能調薪"},{"start":4280.28,"end":4284.28,"text":"這樣子的話對我們非常不合理"},{"start":4284.28,"end":4290.28,"text":"你放工股銀行他們就是市場公司的績效"},{"start":4290.28,"end":4294.28,"text":"他們如果有賺錢他們再經過當事會"},{"start":4294.28,"end":4298.28,"text":"以及銀行委員會他們同意的話"},{"start":4298.28,"end":4302.28,"text":"他們就可以調薪"},{"start":4302.28,"end":4306.28,"text":"這是對我們台銀來講非常不合理"},{"start":4306.28,"end":4308.28,"text":"因為如果說調薪"},{"start":4308.28,"end":4314.28,"text":"政府一直認為我們就是跟他一樣公務人員"},{"start":4314.28,"end":4318.28,"text":"但是我們已經是薪資跟公務人員的薪資脫鉤"},{"start":4318.28,"end":4324.28,"text":"我們也是一個我們現在也是兼勞工身分"},{"start":4324.28,"end":4327.28,"text":"但是不能一直把我們當作我們也是公務人員"},{"start":4327.28,"end":4329.28,"text":"跟我們比"},{"start":4329.28,"end":4334.28,"text":"變成說調薪在108、109年有一個新知其一化"},{"start":4334.28,"end":4338.28,"text":"調薪那兩年剛好剛好去跟銀行比比比"},{"start":4338.28,"end":4342.28,"text":"比到輸出的銀行他的薪水比我們高"},{"start":4342.28,"end":4344.28,"text":"所以那時候就去跟他比"},{"start":4344.28,"end":4348.28,"text":"但是那兩年的調薪結果在財政部一直認為"},{"start":4348.28,"end":4351.28,"text":"那兩年的調薪就計算在內"},{"start":4351.28,"end":4353.28,"text":"我們調薪比他們公務人員還多"},{"start":4353.28,"end":4355.28,"text":"比財政部還多"},{"start":4355.28,"end":4357.28,"text":"所以變成說我們調薪"},{"start":4357.28,"end":4359.28,"text":"現在還要送調薪兩年剛好一次"},{"start":4359.28,"end":4363.28,"text":"現在公務人員因為現在是看我們GBT"},{"start":4363.28,"end":4366.28,"text":"我們的國家你拿GBT超過多少就可以調薪"},{"start":4366.28,"end":4370.28,"text":"而我們兩年剛好一次我們這樣已經會跟不上"},{"start":4370.28,"end":4373.28,"text":"已經對不住你現在公務人員的調薪"},{"start":4373.28,"end":4378.28,"text":"希望可以說要怎麼去留財留一些好的人才"},{"start":4378.28,"end":4381.28,"text":"現在我們的每年的科企"},{"start":4381.28,"end":4385.28,"text":"每年的科企你看現在報考率逐年下降"},{"start":4385.28,"end":4388.28,"text":"入取率逐年提高"},{"start":4388.28,"end":4390.28,"text":"今年已經到18%"},{"start":4390.28,"end":4396.28,"text":"你說大家離職才新入職的人離職率算比退休的人多"},{"start":4396.28,"end":4400.28,"text":"這樣你說一些人才會留住嗎"},{"start":4400.28,"end":4404.28,"text":"再來一個銀行的一些作業風險會漸漸的提高"},{"start":4404.28,"end":4407.28,"text":"但是你結果金管委現在也一直認為"},{"start":4407.28,"end":4413.28,"text":"我們銀行的治理就是要監理"},{"start":4413.28,"end":4416.28,"text":"為什麼沒有監理到發生事情"},{"start":4416.28,"end":4420.28,"text":"發生事情現在的年輕人現在他的想法"},{"start":4420.28,"end":4421.28,"text":"他們住不住"},{"start":4421.28,"end":4424.28,"text":"他們認為這間不大我來北京"},{"start":4424.28,"end":4427.28,"text":"我變成做這個情況"},{"start":4427.28,"end":4431.28,"text":"再來一個我們的績效酬勞"},{"start":4431.28,"end":4434.28,"text":"因為現在的放公股他們都4.6個月"},{"start":4434.28,"end":4437.28,"text":"而我們目前還是4.4個月"},{"start":4437.28,"end":4439.28,"text":"之前有跟財政部說"},{"start":4439.28,"end":4444.28,"text":"財政部說李萬怡這邊沒有意見"},{"start":4444.28,"end":4446.28,"text":"但是財政部說"},{"start":4446.28,"end":4449.28,"text":"如果他們沒有一個行期"},{"start":4449.28,"end":4452.28,"text":"他們沒有辦法遵照辦理"},{"start":4452.28,"end":4455.28,"text":"變成我們只能四點四個月"},{"start":4455.28,"end":4457.28,"text":"再來一個員工酬勞"},{"start":4457.28,"end":4462.28,"text":"我告訴你我們台灣銀行的一個經理"},{"start":4462.28,"end":4464.28,"text":"跟放公股分行的經理"},{"start":4464.28,"end":4468.28,"text":"年所得差了150萬以上"},{"start":4468.28,"end":4469.28,"text":"為什麼會差這麼多"},{"start":4469.28,"end":4472.28,"text":"因為他們前一年度的營餘"},{"start":4472.28,"end":4475.28,"text":"他們可以提撥1到8%作為員工酬勞"},{"start":4475.28,"end":4478.28,"text":"而我們每年可以四點四個月"},{"start":4478.28,"end":4481.28,"text":"結果我們每年大家你看分行"},{"start":4481.28,"end":4484.28,"text":"我們中央單位大家拼死拼命"},{"start":4484.28,"end":4485.28,"text":"大家賺錢賺錢的"},{"start":4485.28,"end":4487.28,"text":"結果營餘也不能多分"},{"start":4487.28,"end":4489.28,"text":"你那裡有賺的"},{"start":4489.28,"end":4493.28,"text":"也不能分享到我們有營餘的部分"},{"start":4493.28,"end":4496.28,"text":"是不是我們可以說我們的情處"},{"start":4496.28,"end":4498.28,"text":"是不是比照放公股"},{"start":4498.28,"end":4502.28,"text":"一樣我們也一樣就是有1到8%的員工酬勞"},{"start":4502.28,"end":4504.28,"text":"再來說我們董事長"},{"start":4504.28,"end":4505.28,"text":"你說董事長"},{"start":4505.28,"end":4509.28,"text":"你如果說不要跟民營銀行比的兩三千萬"},{"start":4509.28,"end":4512.28,"text":"你跟我們董事長的薪水"},{"start":4512.28,"end":4515.28,"text":"你說跟放公股根本就不比"},{"start":4515.28,"end":4517.28,"text":"根本就沒有辦法比"},{"start":4518.28,"end":4522.28,"text":"再來一個就是我們員工的福利信託"},{"start":4522.28,"end":4526.28,"text":"因為他們放公股以及民營銀行現在都有"},{"start":4526.28,"end":4528.28,"text":"他們都有"},{"start":4529.28,"end":4532.28,"text":"因為最高民營銀行提撥到1萬"},{"start":4532.28,"end":4534.28,"text":"因為跨職等他們有提撥到1萬"},{"start":4534.28,"end":4537.28,"text":"當然我們放公股就是有一千"},{"start":4537.28,"end":4542.28,"text":"就我們原來出1千他們行方當也是出1千塊"},{"start":4542.28,"end":4543.28,"text":"但是目前我們都沒有"},{"start":4543.28,"end":4546.28,"text":"現在都是在我們財政部在情處中"},{"start":4546.28,"end":4549.28,"text":"再來就是我們員工的伙食費"},{"start":4549.28,"end":4551.28,"text":"因為員工伙食費現在放公股"},{"start":4551.28,"end":4554.28,"text":"他們每個月都有3千塊"},{"start":4554.28,"end":4556.28,"text":"而我們都沒有"},{"start":4556.28,"end":4559.28,"text":"我們沒有因為我們在營用大概一世紀"},{"start":4559.28,"end":4562.28,"text":"那個免稅額750塊"},{"start":4562.28,"end":4563.28,"text":"一直我們告訴他們"},{"start":4563.28,"end":4565.28,"text":"拜託人放公股都已經有3千"},{"start":4565.28,"end":4566.28,"text":"是怎麼我們沒有"},{"start":4566.28,"end":4569.28,"text":"一直就是我們有一個免稅額750塊"},{"start":4569.28,"end":4571.28,"text":"這個問題"},{"start":4571.28,"end":4573.28,"text":"再來一個主管家籍"},{"start":4573.28,"end":4575.28,"text":"你看放公股"},{"start":4575.28,"end":4579.28,"text":"他們每月8千到8萬不等"},{"start":4579.28,"end":4580.28,"text":"但是我們呢"},{"start":4580.28,"end":4582.28,"text":"我們是只有薪水會3%"},{"start":4582.28,"end":4586.28,"text":"因為我們3%負重的加3%薪水"},{"start":4586.28,"end":4588.28,"text":"加下去比中盈利還要多"},{"start":4588.28,"end":4590.28,"text":"你薪水比中盈利還要多"},{"start":4590.28,"end":4592.28,"text":"譬如說你董總薪資沒有拉高"},{"start":4592.28,"end":4596.28,"text":"變成我們負重的他主管家籍只能3%"},{"start":4596.28,"end":4600.28,"text":"當然我們是不是要求能夠提高"},{"start":4600.28,"end":4604.28,"text":"再來一個有一個新進人員的問題"},{"start":4604.28,"end":4607.28,"text":"年輕人民國97年以後進行的同仁"},{"start":4607.28,"end":4611.28,"text":"他500萬只能存3年起利率加3%的問題"},{"start":4611.28,"end":4613.28,"text":"一年他沒到2萬塊"},{"start":4613.28,"end":4616.28,"text":"我說真的新進人員很可憐"},{"start":4616.28,"end":4618.28,"text":"很可憐你20年30年40年"},{"start":4618.28,"end":4620.28,"text":"只有年輕人退休他那裡沒2萬塊"},{"start":4620.28,"end":4622.28,"text":"你叫這些年輕人怎麼生活"},{"start":4622.28,"end":4625.28,"text":"當然你說年金改革改到像現在這樣子"},{"start":4625.28,"end":4627.28,"text":"是不是非常不合理"},{"start":4627.28,"end":4631.28,"text":"應該要怎麼要提高年輕人他們的福利"},{"start":4631.28,"end":4633.28,"text":"在這裡說到這裡謝謝"},{"start":4635.28,"end":4643.28,"text":"好謝謝我們台銀公會的林理事長的發言"},{"start":4643.28,"end":4648.28,"text":"我跟各位報告剛才林理事長提的那個問題"},{"start":4648.28,"end":4651.28,"text":"我們都跟財政部有溝通過"},{"start":4651.28,"end":4656.28,"text":"我在這裡很正確來說"},{"start":4656.28,"end":4661.28,"text":"其實財政部都支持"},{"start":4661.28,"end":4665.28,"text":"立法委員不分黨派權力支持"},{"start":4665.28,"end":4667.28,"text":"但是卡在什麼地方"},{"start":4667.28,"end":4671.28,"text":"人事總處"},{"start":4671.28,"end":4673.28,"text":"又是死又是尿的"},{"start":4673.28,"end":4676.28,"text":"說這不殺你那不殺你這樣"},{"start":4676.28,"end":4678.28,"text":"用胎管給鑽就對了"},{"start":4678.28,"end":4680.28,"text":"又是死又是尿一堆"},{"start":4680.28,"end":4682.28,"text":"說都不行就對了"},{"start":4682.28,"end":4686.28,"text":"所以這裡不能怪財政部長"},{"start":4686.28,"end":4689.28,"text":"要怪那個人事長"},{"start":4689.28,"end":4692.28,"text":"人事長意見很多我們來繼續努力"},{"start":4692.28,"end":4693.28,"text":"我們繼續努力"},{"start":4693.28,"end":4696.28,"text":"我再講一遍財政部權力支持"},{"start":4696.28,"end":4700.28,"text":"立法院不分黨派都支持"},{"start":4700.28,"end":4704.28,"text":"就是人事總處表面都說OK啦"},{"start":4704.28,"end":4705.28,"text":"歐陵誰都"},{"start":4705.28,"end":4708.28,"text":"實質上就是不可以的"},{"start":4708.28,"end":4710.28,"text":"要我們一起努力"},{"start":4710.28,"end":4717.28,"text":"好下一位請議員的國會理事長陳志雄陳先生請"},{"start":4723.28,"end":4724.28,"text":"主席"},{"start":4724.28,"end":4731.28,"text":"委員然後各位先生大家好"},{"start":4731.28,"end":4735.28,"text":"我是台銀行的教會理事長丹靖永"},{"start":4735.28,"end":4742.28,"text":"感謝財政委員會今天有機會來聽話"},{"start":4742.28,"end":4748.28,"text":"那正對於剛才我們來臨時講的"},{"start":4748.28,"end":4750.28,"text":"有一個我稍微控制一下"},{"start":4750.28,"end":4752.28,"text":"因為他導用我說的話"},{"start":4752.28,"end":4755.28,"text":"因為我說台灣地區我說的不是說的"},{"start":4755.28,"end":4757.28,"text":"這個我控制一下"},{"start":4757.28,"end":4758.28,"text":"不能用我的"},{"start":4758.28,"end":4760.28,"text":"不然要交錢"},{"start":4760.28,"end":4763.28,"text":"然後今天說的是合併的問題"},{"start":4763.28,"end":4766.28,"text":"其實以我本身的立場"},{"start":4766.28,"end":4767.28,"text":"我台銀行"},{"start":4767.28,"end":4772.28,"text":"我們台銀行其實金庫內有交涉是台銀行所談"},{"start":4772.28,"end":4774.28,"text":"所以我的立場"},{"start":4774.28,"end":4775.28,"text":"很清楚"},{"start":4775.28,"end":4777.28,"text":"正對我們金庫內"},{"start":4777.28,"end":4779.28,"text":"如果以主公司來說"},{"start":4779.28,"end":4781.28,"text":"我們只要合併"},{"start":4781.28,"end":4787.28,"text":"有辦法去創造我們銀行的一些效益的時候"},{"start":4787.28,"end":4791.28,"text":"這個保護我認為可以透過高款的那個政策"},{"start":4791.28,"end":4793.28,"text":"這個保護可以透過"},{"start":4793.28,"end":4797.28,"text":"我說的是正對我們金庫內的主公司"},{"start":4797.28,"end":4799.28,"text":"不是正對銀行"},{"start":4799.28,"end":4806.28,"text":"然後那個因為銀行這保護我目前是沒有支持人"},{"start":4806.28,"end":4809.28,"text":"因為我認為我們辦公區的整合"},{"start":4809.28,"end":4811.28,"text":"同質性相關"},{"start":4811.28,"end":4813.28,"text":"銀行對銀行的保護"},{"start":4813.28,"end":4816.28,"text":"我覺得要審慎去評估"},{"start":4816.28,"end":4818.28,"text":"因為我認為同質性合併後"},{"start":4818.28,"end":4820.28,"text":"你只要問法"},{"start":4820.28,"end":4824.28,"text":"薪水跟銀行的軟體這個部分"},{"start":4824.28,"end":4826.28,"text":"你要是真的要整合起來"},{"start":4826.28,"end":4829.28,"text":"我覺得可能要"},{"start":4831.28,"end":4832.28,"text":"好好的來去思考"},{"start":4832.28,"end":4834.28,"text":"這是第一個問題"},{"start":4834.28,"end":4836.28,"text":"再來是正對有一些民眾"},{"start":4836.28,"end":4837.28,"text":"當然他對銀行"},{"start":4837.28,"end":4839.28,"text":"因為他是辦公區"},{"start":4839.28,"end":4841.28,"text":"所以他對我們銀行有信心"},{"start":4841.28,"end":4844.28,"text":"他可能卡兩三間的辦公區"},{"start":4844.28,"end":4846.28,"text":"但是你現在兩三間合起來的時候"},{"start":4846.28,"end":4848.28,"text":"他不一定會完全再站在那裡"},{"start":4848.28,"end":4849.28,"text":"尤其我們銀行"},{"start":4849.28,"end":4854.28,"text":"我們辦公區本身對方塊的評估都比較審慎"},{"start":4854.28,"end":4856.28,"text":"一般來說你合併的時候"},{"start":4856.28,"end":4862.28,"text":"他當然正對銀行的部分會去跟風險評估"},{"start":4862.28,"end":4866.28,"text":"所以是不是可以再照原來兩間合起來的數字"},{"start":4866.28,"end":4870.28,"text":"我認為這個部分應該不會"},{"start":4870.28,"end":4872.28,"text":"因為對民眾來說"},{"start":4872.28,"end":4873.28,"text":"對民眾來說"},{"start":4873.28,"end":4876.28,"text":"他的領域說東西要分做兩個地方"},{"start":4876.28,"end":4878.28,"text":"他的領域比較安全"},{"start":4878.28,"end":4881.28,"text":"所以正對今天你的議題"},{"start":4881.28,"end":4883.28,"text":"我補充兩點就是"},{"start":4883.28,"end":4885.28,"text":"因為我們常常說"},{"start":4885.28,"end":4888.28,"text":"我們辦公區的競爭力不足"},{"start":4888.28,"end":4890.28,"text":"這不是屬性"},{"start":4890.28,"end":4893.28,"text":"因為我們根據央行的統計"},{"start":4893.28,"end":4896.28,"text":"我們在2005年"},{"start":4896.28,"end":4899.28,"text":"國內銀行的主散的規模"},{"start":4899.28,"end":4901.28,"text":"在2010年裡面"},{"start":4901.28,"end":4904.28,"text":"其實我們辦公區就已經有六間了"},{"start":4904.28,"end":4906.28,"text":"這六間其實"},{"start":4906.28,"end":4909.28,"text":"台北、馬里森、花南、阿根"},{"start":4909.28,"end":4911.28,"text":"我們是大到不能倒的"},{"start":4911.28,"end":4914.28,"text":"還有那個兆豐"},{"start":4914.28,"end":4917.28,"text":"我是覺得這幾間的規模"},{"start":4917.28,"end":4918.28,"text":"其實已經"},{"start":4918.28,"end":4920.28,"text":"在2010年我們已經六間了"},{"start":4920.28,"end":4922.28,"text":"所以你說"},{"start":4922.28,"end":4925.28,"text":"我們辦公區在這個市場的地位"},{"start":4925.28,"end":4927.28,"text":"其實主經的動力"},{"start":4927.28,"end":4929.28,"text":"比民營差"},{"start":4929.28,"end":4930.28,"text":"所以我們常常說"},{"start":4930.28,"end":4934.28,"text":"是不是因為我們辦公區的規模不足"},{"start":4934.28,"end":4937.28,"text":"來用銀行的合併"},{"start":4937.28,"end":4940.28,"text":"這個我覺得跟屬性有一點落差"},{"start":4940.28,"end":4943.28,"text":"第二點正對"},{"start":4943.28,"end":4944.28,"text":"我們公共銀行"},{"start":4944.28,"end":4946.28,"text":"因為我們本身公共銀行"},{"start":4946.28,"end":4948.28,"text":"有一些政策使命"},{"start":4948.28,"end":4954.28,"text":"不是只用市場的機票來併價"},{"start":4954.28,"end":4956.28,"text":"這樣是不公平"},{"start":4956.28,"end":4958.28,"text":"因為我們銀行本身"},{"start":4958.28,"end":4962.28,"text":"是登記配合政府的政策的款款"},{"start":4962.28,"end":4964.28,"text":"跟索訊的領域"},{"start":4964.28,"end":4967.28,"text":"但是我們全部的"},{"start":4967.28,"end":4970.28,"text":"應該說很多的收益"},{"start":4970.28,"end":4973.28,"text":"都是送給我們台進保"},{"start":4973.28,"end":4976.28,"text":"這個保護跟一般民間的企業"},{"start":4976.28,"end":4977.28,"text":"他們的銀行"},{"start":4977.28,"end":4980.28,"text":"他們對付的是利潤的極大化"},{"start":4980.28,"end":4982.28,"text":"那是完全不一樣"},{"start":4982.28,"end":4983.28,"text":"所以我們銀行"},{"start":4983.28,"end":4985.28,"text":"公共的銀行的存在"},{"start":4985.28,"end":4990.28,"text":"你現階段不只是國東的主散"},{"start":4990.28,"end":4992.28,"text":"其實它還是存在著"},{"start":4992.28,"end":4996.28,"text":"我們全國人民對金融穩定的信賴"},{"start":4996.28,"end":4999.28,"text":"任何的政兵的決策"},{"start":4999.28,"end":5000.28,"text":"對現在來說"},{"start":5000.28,"end":5004.28,"text":"我都認為應該要先行透明"},{"start":5004.28,"end":5008.28,"text":"不可以因為有一些政策"},{"start":5008.28,"end":5009.28,"text":"說這個外國的時間"},{"start":5009.28,"end":5011.28,"text":"你就要去合併"},{"start":5011.28,"end":5012.28,"text":"還是說化一個口號"},{"start":5012.28,"end":5013.28,"text":"要去合併"},{"start":5013.28,"end":5014.28,"text":"這樣的話"},{"start":5014.28,"end":5016.28,"text":"我覺得剛才我看了"},{"start":5016.28,"end":5017.28,"text":"我們台灣第一"},{"start":5017.28,"end":5019.28,"text":"這樣會比較快"},{"start":5019.28,"end":5020.28,"text":"以上"},{"start":5020.28,"end":5023.28,"text":"那謝謝大家的參與"},{"start":5023.28,"end":5024.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5027.28,"end":5028.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5028.28,"end":5029.28,"text":"稍等一下"},{"start":5029.28,"end":5031.28,"text":"那個理事長"},{"start":5031.28,"end":5034.28,"text":"你有贊成要公共病嗎"},{"start":5034.28,"end":5036.28,"text":"我剛才他說了"},{"start":5036.28,"end":5037.28,"text":"你有贊成嗎"},{"start":5037.28,"end":5039.28,"text":"沒有我們慢慢來"},{"start":5039.28,"end":5040.28,"text":"台灣的醫生會不會"},{"start":5040.28,"end":5042.28,"text":"台灣第一可以"},{"start":5042.28,"end":5043.28,"text":"哪裡"},{"start":5045.28,"end":5046.28,"text":"第一台灣不行"},{"start":5046.28,"end":5047.28,"text":"就是這樣"},{"start":5047.28,"end":5050.28,"text":"第二台灣不好聽"},{"start":5050.28,"end":5052.28,"text":"台灣第一好"},{"start":5052.28,"end":5053.28,"text":"好了"},{"start":5053.28,"end":5054.28,"text":"這樣了解"},{"start":5054.28,"end":5055.28,"text":"你剛才沒講清楚"},{"start":5055.28,"end":5056.28,"text":"我聽不清楚了"},{"start":5056.28,"end":5057.28,"text":"好"},{"start":5057.28,"end":5060.28,"text":"下一位我們請中副級"},{"start":5060.28,"end":5062.28,"text":"我們是全國金融業"},{"start":5062.28,"end":5064.28,"text":"國會總會理事長"},{"start":5064.28,"end":5065.28,"text":"請"},{"start":5072.28,"end":5075.28,"text":"主席委員還有我們的部長"},{"start":5075.28,"end":5078.28,"text":"還有金管會的主委局長"},{"start":5078.28,"end":5080.28,"text":"還有我們金控的董總們"},{"start":5080.28,"end":5083.28,"text":"還有現場練習的貴賓"},{"start":5083.28,"end":5084.28,"text":"還有媒體記者"},{"start":5084.28,"end":5085.28,"text":"大家好"},{"start":5085.28,"end":5088.28,"text":"我是全紀念的理事長"},{"start":5088.28,"end":5090.28,"text":"那有關紀念的三個議題"},{"start":5090.28,"end":5091.28,"text":"針對第一點"},{"start":5091.28,"end":5092.28,"text":"第一點"},{"start":5092.28,"end":5093.28,"text":"第一點是"},{"start":5093.28,"end":5094.28,"text":"第一點是"},{"start":5094.28,"end":5095.28,"text":"第一點是"},{"start":5095.28,"end":5096.28,"text":"第一點是"},{"start":5096.28,"end":5097.28,"text":"第一點是"},{"start":5097.28,"end":5098.28,"text":"第一點是"},{"start":5098.28,"end":5099.28,"text":"第一點是"},{"start":5099.28,"end":5100.28,"text":"第一點是"},{"start":5100.28,"end":5102.28,"text":"有關紀念的三個議題"},{"start":5102.28,"end":5103.28,"text":"針對第一點跟第三點"},{"start":5103.28,"end":5104.28,"text":"是屬於"},{"start":5104.28,"end":5106.28,"text":"那個資助方的經營管理權"},{"start":5106.28,"end":5108.28,"text":"如何提升經營績效"},{"start":5108.28,"end":5109.28,"text":"跟競爭力"},{"start":5109.28,"end":5111.28,"text":"還有第三個是併購策略"},{"start":5111.28,"end":5113.28,"text":"這是屬於董事會的一個"},{"start":5113.28,"end":5114.28,"text":"經營管理權"},{"start":5114.28,"end":5116.28,"text":"那我們公會是充分的尊重"},{"start":5116.28,"end":5119.28,"text":"那我們今天重點講的是第二點"},{"start":5119.28,"end":5120.28,"text":"在併購的過程裡面"},{"start":5120.28,"end":5123.28,"text":"如何避免員工的權益受到影響"},{"start":5123.28,"end":5125.28,"text":"那全紀念"},{"start":5125.28,"end":5127.28,"text":"在這幾年的併購"},{"start":5127.28,"end":5128.28,"text":"這十年來的併購案"},{"start":5128.28,"end":5129.28,"text":"比如說元大大眾"},{"start":5129.28,"end":5130.28,"text":"富邦日盛"},{"start":5130.28,"end":5131.28,"text":"台新病新光"},{"start":5131.28,"end":5135.28,"text":"花旗讓與這個消費金業務給新展"},{"start":5135.28,"end":5136.28,"text":"還有玉山病金控"},{"start":5136.28,"end":5138.28,"text":"永豐病金城銀行"},{"start":5138.28,"end":5140.28,"text":"現在當然我們花時間"},{"start":5140.28,"end":5142.28,"text":"已經花時間在公股的"},{"start":5142.28,"end":5143.28,"text":"四個子公司"},{"start":5143.28,"end":5146.28,"text":"投信四個子公司的和平案"},{"start":5146.28,"end":5147.28,"text":"在這過程裡面"},{"start":5147.28,"end":5149.28,"text":"全紀念一直扮演一個協調的角色"},{"start":5149.28,"end":5152.28,"text":"那如果包含剛才委員提到的"},{"start":5152.28,"end":5154.28,"text":"就是如果國票金有往下走"},{"start":5154.28,"end":5155.28,"text":"有往下走"},{"start":5155.28,"end":5156.28,"text":"那這一點"},{"start":5156.28,"end":5158.28,"text":"全紀念就可以協助"},{"start":5158.28,"end":5160.28,"text":"勞資雙方意見的整合"},{"start":5160.28,"end":5161.28,"text":"這是全紀念的角色"},{"start":5161.28,"end":5164.28,"text":"可是我今天要跟各位報告的一點就是說"},{"start":5164.28,"end":5166.28,"text":"剛才很多學者專家有提到"},{"start":5166.28,"end":5168.28,"text":"員工權益的保護"},{"start":5168.28,"end":5169.28,"text":"那距離來講"},{"start":5169.28,"end":5170.28,"text":"我想在這地方"},{"start":5170.28,"end":5172.28,"text":"跟各位快速的報告一下"},{"start":5172.28,"end":5174.28,"text":"就是從螢幕上各位可以看到"},{"start":5174.28,"end":5176.28,"text":"事實上銀行"},{"start":5176.28,"end":5180.28,"text":"金融中業同同盟最抗拒的就是一個"},{"start":5180.28,"end":5181.28,"text":"抗拒併購"},{"start":5181.28,"end":5183.28,"text":"目前心態上在抗拒併購的主要原因"},{"start":5183.28,"end":5184.28,"text":"第一點就是"},{"start":5184.28,"end":5185.28,"text":"在併購的時候"},{"start":5185.28,"end":5186.28,"text":"第一點"},{"start":5186.28,"end":5187.28,"text":"併購的時候並沒有對"},{"start":5187.28,"end":5189.28,"text":"概括承受勞工的權利義務"},{"start":5189.28,"end":5191.28,"text":"在併購的過程裡面"},{"start":5191.28,"end":5194.28,"text":"我們可能對上下游的權利義務"},{"start":5194.28,"end":5195.28,"text":"我們都會講"},{"start":5195.28,"end":5196.28,"text":"我們甚至對於客戶的權利義務"},{"start":5196.28,"end":5197.28,"text":"我們也都會照顧"},{"start":5197.28,"end":5199.28,"text":"可是唯獨在法規上"},{"start":5199.28,"end":5201.28,"text":"對於勞工權利義務的保障"},{"start":5201.28,"end":5202.28,"text":"事實上是沒有的"},{"start":5202.28,"end":5203.28,"text":"待會會跟各位舉例"},{"start":5203.28,"end":5205.28,"text":"第二點就是併購過程裡面"},{"start":5205.28,"end":5207.28,"text":"並沒有勞資協章程序"},{"start":5207.28,"end":5209.28,"text":"各位知道併購是一個很大的工程"},{"start":5209.28,"end":5211.28,"text":"勞資雙方"},{"start":5211.28,"end":5212.28,"text":"雇主呢"},{"start":5212.28,"end":5214.28,"text":"都說員工是公司的最大資產"},{"start":5214.28,"end":5216.28,"text":"可是在員工在這個併購過程裡面"},{"start":5216.28,"end":5218.28,"text":"是一個很重要的利害關係人"},{"start":5218.28,"end":5220.28,"text":"可是他並沒有參與事前跟事後"},{"start":5220.28,"end":5222.28,"text":"如果都沒有法律的保障的時候"},{"start":5222.28,"end":5224.28,"text":"事實上對員工的權益保障"},{"start":5224.28,"end":5226.28,"text":"事實上都是屬於空談"},{"start":5226.28,"end":5228.28,"text":"那第三點就是"},{"start":5228.28,"end":5230.28,"text":"既然員工安置機關沒有一個法源依據"},{"start":5230.28,"end":5232.28,"text":"當然他就沒有一個強制力"},{"start":5232.28,"end":5235.28,"text":"我們從下一頁我們來看這個事情"},{"start":5235.28,"end":5237.28,"text":"事實上我們都知道"},{"start":5237.28,"end":5238.28,"text":"在併購過程裡面"},{"start":5238.28,"end":5239.28,"text":"不管是各種法律"},{"start":5239.28,"end":5240.28,"text":"我們對於概括承受"},{"start":5240.28,"end":5242.28,"text":"都有一個這樣的說法"},{"start":5242.28,"end":5243.28,"text":"各位可以知道"},{"start":5243.28,"end":5245.28,"text":"你看企業併購法第四條有講概括承受"},{"start":5245.28,"end":5247.28,"text":"那概括承受包含他的權利義務"},{"start":5247.28,"end":5248.28,"text":"都是沒有"},{"start":5248.28,"end":5249.28,"text":"可是在實務上"},{"start":5249.28,"end":5251.28,"text":"在併購過程裡面呢"},{"start":5251.28,"end":5253.28,"text":"我們舉例在勞基法二十條裡面"},{"start":5253.28,"end":5255.28,"text":"新雇主只要承認勞工的工作年資"},{"start":5255.28,"end":5257.28,"text":"並不需要承認他的工作條件"},{"start":5257.28,"end":5258.28,"text":"從這個點"},{"start":5258.28,"end":5260.28,"text":"各位就可以看得出來"},{"start":5260.28,"end":5261.28,"text":"往下看"},{"start":5261.28,"end":5263.28,"text":"所以勞基法二十條呢"},{"start":5263.28,"end":5265.28,"text":"是我們被併購的勞工人"},{"start":5265.28,"end":5266.28,"text":"這二十年來"},{"start":5266.28,"end":5268.28,"text":"這個四五十起的一個併購案"},{"start":5268.28,"end":5270.28,"text":"我們公衛勞工所在"},{"start":5270.28,"end":5273.28,"text":"我們公衛勞工所公認的一個惡法"},{"start":5273.28,"end":5275.28,"text":"各位可以從勞基法第二十條"},{"start":5275.28,"end":5277.28,"text":"紅色的部分你可以看"},{"start":5277.28,"end":5278.28,"text":"在併購過程裡面"},{"start":5278.28,"end":5280.28,"text":"新秀雇主可以上帝留用"},{"start":5280.28,"end":5282.28,"text":"兩個雇主可以決定你留不留"},{"start":5282.28,"end":5283.28,"text":"他對於婦女"},{"start":5283.28,"end":5284.28,"text":"對於高齡的"},{"start":5284.28,"end":5285.28,"text":"對於公衛幹部"},{"start":5285.28,"end":5287.28,"text":"對於其他他看不順眼的這些人"},{"start":5287.28,"end":5290.28,"text":"他可以有一個上帝留用權"},{"start":5290.28,"end":5292.28,"text":"那不留用的人"},{"start":5292.28,"end":5294.28,"text":"他不留用只可以拿支遣費"},{"start":5294.28,"end":5295.28,"text":"那留用呢"},{"start":5295.28,"end":5297.28,"text":"他只承認你的工作年資"},{"start":5297.28,"end":5298.28,"text":"你的所有工作"},{"start":5298.28,"end":5299.28,"text":"你原雇主對你的工作條件"},{"start":5299.28,"end":5301.28,"text":"事實上是沒有被保護的"},{"start":5301.28,"end":5303.28,"text":"所以勞基法二十條"},{"start":5303.28,"end":5304.28,"text":"在長久以來"},{"start":5304.28,"end":5305.28,"text":"我們公會的質疑就是"},{"start":5305.28,"end":5307.28,"text":"第一個為什麼新秀雇主"},{"start":5307.28,"end":5308.28,"text":"他有上帝留用權"},{"start":5308.28,"end":5309.28,"text":"這是個很落伍的觀念"},{"start":5309.28,"end":5311.28,"text":"第二點新秀雇主"},{"start":5311.28,"end":5312.28,"text":"為什麼只承認我的工作年資"},{"start":5312.28,"end":5315.28,"text":"而不承認我所有的勞工條件呢"},{"start":5315.28,"end":5317.28,"text":"第三點就是為什麼我們在合併過程"},{"start":5317.28,"end":5318.28,"text":"只能拿到支遣費"},{"start":5318.28,"end":5319.28,"text":"我又不是表現不好"},{"start":5319.28,"end":5321.28,"text":"是你不喜歡我而已"},{"start":5321.28,"end":5323.28,"text":"那為什麼只有拿支遣費"},{"start":5323.28,"end":5325.28,"text":"第四點就是我們公會長久以來"},{"start":5325.28,"end":5327.28,"text":"我們在推動這個法令"},{"start":5327.28,"end":5328.28,"text":"在這個地方也先打斷"},{"start":5328.28,"end":5330.28,"text":"就是我感謝主委"},{"start":5330.28,"end":5333.28,"text":"委員這次召開的公聽會裡面"},{"start":5333.28,"end":5335.28,"text":"他的會議紀錄裡面"},{"start":5335.28,"end":5337.28,"text":"有提到很多法令的修正"},{"start":5337.28,"end":5339.28,"text":"這就是我們這些修正條件裡面"},{"start":5339.28,"end":5341.28,"text":"都有一個很重要的精髓"},{"start":5341.28,"end":5343.28,"text":"不管他的委員的高見"},{"start":5343.28,"end":5344.28,"text":"是怎麼樣調整"},{"start":5344.28,"end":5346.28,"text":"可是事實上他都有一個很重要的精髓"},{"start":5346.28,"end":5347.28,"text":"就是在併購過程裡面"},{"start":5347.28,"end":5349.28,"text":"必須要有勞資協商的程序"},{"start":5349.28,"end":5352.28,"text":"我們只要求在併購的過程裡面"},{"start":5352.28,"end":5354.28,"text":"我們要有一定的協商程序"},{"start":5354.28,"end":5355.28,"text":"我們並不是說在併購過程裡面"},{"start":5355.28,"end":5357.28,"text":"我們要拿多少錢又多少錢"},{"start":5357.28,"end":5358.28,"text":"沒有"},{"start":5358.28,"end":5360.28,"text":"在這個地方跟各位報告"},{"start":5360.28,"end":5361.28,"text":"那下一個"},{"start":5361.28,"end":5364.28,"text":"那影響金融業的併購"},{"start":5364.28,"end":5366.28,"text":"有一個另外一個很直接的"},{"start":5366.28,"end":5368.28,"text":"就是金融機構的合併法第十二條"},{"start":5368.28,"end":5370.28,"text":"各位你看他的第十二條裡面的第二點"},{"start":5370.28,"end":5372.28,"text":"他有一個對受僱人權益的保障"},{"start":5372.28,"end":5374.28,"text":"可是這個地方並沒有"},{"start":5374.28,"end":5376.28,"text":"這對受僱人的權益保障"},{"start":5376.28,"end":5378.28,"text":"並沒有經過勞資協商程序"},{"start":5378.28,"end":5379.28,"text":"僱主說了算"},{"start":5379.28,"end":5382.28,"text":"這是我們勞工團體一直非常抗拒一點"},{"start":5382.28,"end":5384.28,"text":"員工安置計畫從二次進台以來"},{"start":5384.28,"end":5386.28,"text":"沒有員工安置計畫"},{"start":5386.28,"end":5388.28,"text":"後來變成是僱主拿員工安置計畫"},{"start":5388.28,"end":5389.28,"text":"現在"},{"start":5390.28,"end":5392.28,"text":"我覺得國家應該要進步到"},{"start":5392.28,"end":5394.28,"text":"這樣的任何的一個員工安置計畫"},{"start":5394.28,"end":5396.28,"text":"或者是這邊下面寫對受僱人權益的保障"},{"start":5396.28,"end":5399.28,"text":"事實上他是需要經過勞資協商程序的"},{"start":5399.28,"end":5400.28,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":5400.28,"end":5403.28,"text":"我們不斷的在主張金融機構的合併法修正"},{"start":5403.28,"end":5405.28,"text":"還有勞基法第二條的修正"},{"start":5405.28,"end":5408.28,"text":"我在這地方也拜託委員給我們支持"},{"start":5408.28,"end":5410.28,"text":"對於未來不管是公共病"},{"start":5410.28,"end":5411.28,"text":"或者民營病"},{"start":5411.28,"end":5413.28,"text":"或者是國票金"},{"start":5413.28,"end":5415.28,"text":"未來有下一個動作的時候"},{"start":5415.28,"end":5418.28,"text":"我們全今年都希望"},{"start":5418.28,"end":5420.28,"text":"在這樣的一個法律保障底下"},{"start":5420.28,"end":5422.28,"text":"有一個這樣的一個勞資協商程序"},{"start":5422.28,"end":5424.28,"text":"所以呢我們這邊對勞基法第二"},{"start":5424.28,"end":5426.28,"text":"有一個出錢的一個修正的建議"},{"start":5426.28,"end":5429.28,"text":"就是我們要破除這個金舊"},{"start":5429.28,"end":5431.28,"text":"僱主協商定流動權"},{"start":5431.28,"end":5432.28,"text":"這是很不公平的"},{"start":5432.28,"end":5434.28,"text":"我們希望他承認是我們的工作條件"},{"start":5434.28,"end":5437.28,"text":"我們希望在這個併購過程裡面"},{"start":5437.28,"end":5439.28,"text":"他勞工公會應該有所謂的知情權"},{"start":5439.28,"end":5442.28,"text":"就是說要內容要經公會同意"},{"start":5442.28,"end":5443.28,"text":"如果世界單位沒有公會"},{"start":5443.28,"end":5444.28,"text":"是經勞資會議同意的"},{"start":5444.28,"end":5446.28,"text":"這是我們的一個主張"},{"start":5446.28,"end":5451.28,"text":"剛才我們批判了金融機構法第十二條的這樣的規範"},{"start":5451.28,"end":5454.28,"text":"我們希望在十二條裡面"},{"start":5454.28,"end":5456.28,"text":"就是最下面的這個地方"},{"start":5456.28,"end":5458.28,"text":"就是也要經過公會或者是沒有"},{"start":5458.28,"end":5459.28,"text":"或者勞資會議同意"},{"start":5459.28,"end":5460.28,"text":"這是我們"},{"start":5460.28,"end":5463.28,"text":"那講到這個地方"},{"start":5463.28,"end":5465.28,"text":"我要特別感謝金管會主委"},{"start":5465.28,"end":5467.28,"text":"還有銀行局三個局處"},{"start":5467.28,"end":5469.28,"text":"在併購的過程裡面"},{"start":5469.28,"end":5471.28,"text":"雖然法律上並沒有強制規定"},{"start":5471.28,"end":5473.28,"text":"要跟公會協商有關的計畫"},{"start":5473.28,"end":5475.28,"text":"可是這十年來的剛才上述念過的"},{"start":5475.28,"end":5476.28,"text":"這些和平案裡面"},{"start":5476.28,"end":5479.28,"text":"金管會都有盡量的站在勞工的角度"},{"start":5479.28,"end":5483.28,"text":"會審慎的去參酌他的一個"},{"start":5483.28,"end":5486.28,"text":"勞資協商的程序是不是有達到共識"},{"start":5486.28,"end":5488.28,"text":"變成是一個總駁的一個參考"},{"start":5488.28,"end":5491.28,"text":"那因為主委會高升"},{"start":5491.28,"end":5493.28,"text":"局長也會高升"},{"start":5493.28,"end":5495.28,"text":"那我們擔心改朝換代的時候"},{"start":5495.28,"end":5498.28,"text":"這些並沒有法律的依據保護的一個"},{"start":5498.28,"end":5499.28,"text":"這樣的一個機制"},{"start":5499.28,"end":5501.28,"text":"可能很容易被說到調整"},{"start":5501.28,"end":5504.28,"text":"那當然金管會對我們是很支持"},{"start":5504.28,"end":5506.28,"text":"我們講到最後就是說"},{"start":5506.28,"end":5508.28,"text":"遠方案子計畫沒有法律依據"},{"start":5508.28,"end":5510.28,"text":"即使我們要到一個遠方案子計畫"},{"start":5510.28,"end":5512.28,"text":"事實上雇主從現在的爭議裡面"},{"start":5512.28,"end":5514.28,"text":"最後合併這幾個案子裡面"},{"start":5514.28,"end":5516.28,"text":"事實上都有一些爭議不斷的發生"},{"start":5516.28,"end":5517.28,"text":"那因為沒有法院依據"},{"start":5517.28,"end":5519.28,"text":"所以我們能進行協商"},{"start":5519.28,"end":5523.28,"text":"或者是透過司法下去進行一個訴訟"},{"start":5523.28,"end":5527.28,"text":"那各位知道勞工是一個弱勢團體"},{"start":5527.28,"end":5528.28,"text":"老闆就是有錢"},{"start":5528.28,"end":5531.28,"text":"他可以給你告告到你受不了為止"},{"start":5531.28,"end":5533.28,"text":"所以說我們希望就是說"},{"start":5533.28,"end":5534.28,"text":"在這整變的過程裡面"},{"start":5534.28,"end":5537.28,"text":"我們經過我們一直用實際的行動"},{"start":5537.28,"end":5538.28,"text":"來證明這一點"},{"start":5538.28,"end":5539.28,"text":"我們雖然法務明定"},{"start":5539.28,"end":5541.28,"text":"我們也在用合併案子裡面證明"},{"start":5541.28,"end":5543.28,"text":"就是說合併的過程裡面"},{"start":5543.28,"end":5545.28,"text":"如果跟公會協商遠方計畫"},{"start":5545.28,"end":5548.28,"text":"事實上是不會阻礙合併的進行"},{"start":5548.28,"end":5551.28,"text":"甚至有助於合併的一個溝通"},{"start":5551.28,"end":5553.28,"text":"所以呢那金管會"},{"start":5553.28,"end":5555.28,"text":"我剛才講過我感謝金管會"},{"start":5555.28,"end":5557.28,"text":"這陣子在法務還沒有修法之前"},{"start":5557.28,"end":5560.28,"text":"他對於這個合併案勞工的一個"},{"start":5560.28,"end":5561.28,"text":"那因為僅止於默契"},{"start":5561.28,"end":5564.28,"text":"所以我們希望修法才是根本的解決之道"},{"start":5564.28,"end":5566.28,"text":"在這地方也拜託委員"},{"start":5566.28,"end":5568.28,"text":"在這個案子裡面繼續給我們協助"},{"start":5568.28,"end":5570.28,"text":"我也拜託在四合一的合併案裡面"},{"start":5570.28,"end":5572.28,"text":"財政部也可以督導"},{"start":5572.28,"end":5575.28,"text":"我們四個相關的監控長官們"},{"start":5575.28,"end":5578.28,"text":"那在法務修正之前"},{"start":5578.28,"end":5580.28,"text":"能按照以前合併案例"},{"start":5580.28,"end":5583.28,"text":"跟員工協調員官的資料"},{"start":5583.28,"end":5585.28,"text":"員工協調員官案子計畫"},{"start":5585.28,"end":5587.28,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":5587.28,"end":5592.28,"text":"好謝謝全金聯的中理事長的發言"},{"start":5592.28,"end":5597.28,"text":"下月請華南金控的公會理事長王理事長請"},{"start":5606.28,"end":5608.28,"text":"主席"},{"start":5608.28,"end":5611.28,"text":"各位委員各位主管機關的代表"},{"start":5611.28,"end":5613.28,"text":"各位學者專家"},{"start":5613.28,"end":5617.28,"text":"以及金融業的公會先進大家好"},{"start":5617.28,"end":5622.28,"text":"我是華南金控企業公會與子公司理事長王一賢"},{"start":5622.28,"end":5625.28,"text":"今天非常感謝財政委員會"},{"start":5625.28,"end":5628.28,"text":"給公會代表表達意見的機會"},{"start":5628.28,"end":5633.28,"text":"對今天討論的泛公股金融機構整併的議題"},{"start":5633.28,"end":5637.28,"text":"我想先清楚表達我公會的基本立場"},{"start":5637.28,"end":5643.28,"text":"那在現階段在金融機構合併法完善之前"},{"start":5643.28,"end":5646.28,"text":"我們是不贊成公共病"},{"start":5646.28,"end":5649.28,"text":"這是公會目前的立場"},{"start":5649.28,"end":5654.28,"text":"那我們今天也不是說要阻止金融的整併"},{"start":5654.28,"end":5660.28,"text":"而是希望建立一套可以整併可以成功的制度"},{"start":5660.28,"end":5664.28,"text":"公會堅決反對的是任何黑箱作業"},{"start":5664.28,"end":5668.28,"text":"以及損害勞工權益的整併"},{"start":5668.28,"end":5673.28,"text":"那期盼各位委員能夠將基層的聲音納入考量"},{"start":5673.28,"end":5677.28,"text":"加速推進金融機構合併法的修法"},{"start":5677.28,"end":5682.28,"text":"讓台灣的金融整併在法治的保障下"},{"start":5682.28,"end":5685.28,"text":"走向勞資雙贏的局面"},{"start":5685.28,"end":5688.28,"text":"那如果透過合理的整併"},{"start":5688.28,"end":5692.28,"text":"可以提升公股金融機構的經營效率"},{"start":5692.28,"end":5697.28,"text":"擴大規模強化數位轉型及國際競爭力"},{"start":5697.28,"end":5701.28,"text":"可是我們也必須強調"},{"start":5701.28,"end":5708.28,"text":"不能把裁員減薪關閉據點以及降低勞動條件"},{"start":5708.28,"end":5713.28,"text":"當成整併產生中效最簡單的方法"},{"start":5713.28,"end":5718.28,"text":"金融業最大資產不只是資本分行"},{"start":5718.28,"end":5722.28,"text":"資訊系統或者是客戶資料"},{"start":5722.28,"end":5727.28,"text":"而是長期累積專業經驗與客戶信任的員工"},{"start":5727.28,"end":5731.28,"text":"那如果一場整併最後造成優秀員工"},{"start":5731.28,"end":5734.28,"text":"優秀人才大量的離職"},{"start":5734.28,"end":5738.28,"text":"員工士氣低落 勞資衝突增加"},{"start":5738.28,"end":5743.28,"text":"即使在帳面上的資產規模變大"},{"start":5743.28,"end":5746.28,"text":"也未必是一場成功的整併"},{"start":5746.28,"end":5749.28,"text":"關於今天的第一個提綱"},{"start":5749.28,"end":5753.28,"text":"我想有以下的意見表達"},{"start":5753.28,"end":5756.28,"text":"第一個就是我們泛公股金融機構"},{"start":5756.28,"end":5760.28,"text":"近年來的經營績效排行逐年滑落"},{"start":5760.28,"end":5765.28,"text":"如何透過併購程序強化經營中效與競爭力"},{"start":5765.28,"end":5767.28,"text":"我們都知道最近幾年"},{"start":5767.28,"end":5771.28,"text":"泛公股的金融機構面臨競爭激烈"},{"start":5771.28,"end":5775.28,"text":"經營績效的提升確實是當務之急"},{"start":5775.28,"end":5779.28,"text":"然而 金融業的核心資產是人"},{"start":5779.28,"end":5784.28,"text":"而非冷冰冰的營業據點或者是硬體設備"},{"start":5784.28,"end":5787.28,"text":"過去的併購經驗告訴我們"},{"start":5787.28,"end":5792.28,"text":"若單純為了追求財務報表上的規模擴張"},{"start":5792.28,"end":5797.28,"text":"而忽略了企業文化的融合跟員工士氣"},{"start":5797.28,"end":5801.28,"text":"反而會導致內部動盪跟客戶的流失"},{"start":5801.28,"end":5806.28,"text":"要透過整併程序強化經營中效與競爭力"},{"start":5806.28,"end":5809.28,"text":"所要條件就是要穩定軍心"},{"start":5809.28,"end":5813.28,"text":"泛公股在評估併購對象"},{"start":5813.28,"end":5817.28,"text":"不僅是要考慮資產負債表的互補性"},{"start":5817.28,"end":5824.28,"text":"更應該評估雙方人事制度與員工福利的接軌程度"},{"start":5824.28,"end":5830.28,"text":"那唯有在員工不擔憂飯碗不飽的前提下"},{"start":5830.28,"end":5834.28,"text":"才能花費1加1大於2的綜效"},{"start":5834.28,"end":5841.28,"text":"那公會認為在合併之前有幾個問題需要釐清"},{"start":5841.28,"end":5847.28,"text":"第一個是就有關經營績效排行下降的真正原因是什麼"},{"start":5847.28,"end":5851.28,"text":"是資產規模不足還是數位轉型落後"},{"start":5851.28,"end":5855.28,"text":"還是海外佈局不足還是產品線不足"},{"start":5855.28,"end":5860.28,"text":"還是決策的速度不夠還是人才制度"},{"start":5860.28,"end":5865.28,"text":"還是受到公股體系政策任務的治理制度的影響"},{"start":5865.28,"end":5868.28,"text":"如果在以上問題還沒有診斷清楚"},{"start":5868.28,"end":5871.28,"text":"就直接把合併當成答案"},{"start":5871.28,"end":5875.28,"text":"那可能就是把兩家的問題本來就存在問題"},{"start":5875.28,"end":5877.28,"text":"合併在一起而已"},{"start":5877.28,"end":5882.28,"text":"因此我們主張財政部在提出泛公股診病政策之前"},{"start":5882.28,"end":5886.28,"text":"應該先提出完整的效益評估"},{"start":5886.28,"end":5890.28,"text":"那在現行金融機構合併法的架構下"},{"start":5890.28,"end":5896.28,"text":"本來就有要求合併計畫必須評估合併方式"},{"start":5896.28,"end":5901.28,"text":"經濟效益業務發展計畫還有未來三年的財務預測"},{"start":5901.28,"end":5905.28,"text":"以及必要性合理性可行性"},{"start":5905.28,"end":5911.28,"text":"那公會認為未來泛公股診病至少還要回答以下幾個問題"},{"start":5911.28,"end":5917.28,"text":"第一 合併後的三年五年具體的忠孝到底是什麼"},{"start":5917.28,"end":5921.28,"text":"第二是忠孝是來自於業務成長"},{"start":5921.28,"end":5926.28,"text":"還是來自於裁員跟降低人事成本"},{"start":5926.28,"end":5932.28,"text":"第三 兩家金融機構的客群分行海外據點"},{"start":5932.28,"end":5938.28,"text":"資訊系統以及人才究竟是互補還是高度重疊"},{"start":5938.28,"end":5946.28,"text":"第四 診病所需要付出的資訊整合、人事整合、品牌整合、"},{"start":5946.28,"end":5950.28,"text":"組織文化整合的成本是多少"},{"start":5950.28,"end":5957.28,"text":"第五 公股銀行背負政府政策使命與普惠金融價值的重要功能"},{"start":5957.28,"end":5964.28,"text":"那因為背負這些功能造成公股銀行在ROA"},{"start":5964.28,"end":5971.28,"text":"因為資本使用效率不彰的狀況下造成落後民營銀行"},{"start":5971.28,"end":5979.28,"text":"那除了公股銀行還要上繳營收給財政部"},{"start":5979.28,"end":5986.28,"text":"那合併之後是不是會造成上繳的營收跟減少放款金額"},{"start":5986.28,"end":5993.28,"text":"那對政府、對銀行客戶來說合併是良藥還是毒藥"},{"start":5993.28,"end":6001.28,"text":"我們尤其要提醒不能把減少員工計算成診病的最主要的忠孝"},{"start":6001.28,"end":6007.28,"text":"因為這種忠孝在短期內在財報上面是比較好看"},{"start":6007.28,"end":6013.28,"text":"可是在長期而言可能會造成品質、服務品質的下降"},{"start":6013.28,"end":6018.28,"text":"以及人才斷層以及造成內部控制的風險"},{"start":6019.28,"end":6026.28,"text":"所以工會支持的是以成長創造忠孝而不是以裁員創造忠孝"},{"start":6026.28,"end":6034.28,"text":"我們最後要再強調工會反對用犧牲員工來證明診病是有忠孝的"},{"start":6034.28,"end":6038.28,"text":"金融機構最大資產是人,把人才留下來"},{"start":6038.28,"end":6042.28,"text":"把員工安定才有可能把客戶留下來"},{"start":6042.28,"end":6044.28,"text":"也才有真正的診病忠孝"},{"start":6044.28,"end":6045.28,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":6048.28,"end":6054.28,"text":"謝謝華南京工會理事長、理事長、同胞、還有最後一位專家學者"},{"start":6054.28,"end":6059.28,"text":"請一下淡江大學財經系的聶建宗教授請"},{"start":6066.28,"end":6070.28,"text":"今天有限就話不遲疑,我就開始講我要講的"},{"start":6070.28,"end":6072.28,"text":"那麼首先也表達一下"},{"start":6072.28,"end":6075.28,"text":"雖然我在學界但是我在販官股銀行"},{"start":6075.28,"end":6077.28,"text":"是一家非常特別的販官股銀行"},{"start":6077.28,"end":6080.28,"text":"這家是完全在台灣唯一官民共治的販官股"},{"start":6080.28,"end":6082.28,"text":"當了十幾年的董事"},{"start":6082.28,"end":6087.28,"text":"所以在裡面也看了非常多的上上下下的所有裡面的氛圍"},{"start":6087.28,"end":6091.28,"text":"但是我對所謂的財政販官股機構的未來趨勢"},{"start":6091.28,"end":6095.28,"text":"短縱期的策略計畫對我做一些我想要的講法"},{"start":6095.28,"end":6097.28,"text":"那麼一開始我要講一下就是"},{"start":6097.28,"end":6100.28,"text":"竟然是販官股你拿的錢是納稅義務人的錢"},{"start":6100.28,"end":6104.28,"text":"你首先必須要秉持良心、道德與責任"},{"start":6104.28,"end":6107.28,"text":"當時在2008年我被任命的時候"},{"start":6107.28,"end":6110.28,"text":"那時候的財政部長也是給了我這樣的一個感覺"},{"start":6110.28,"end":6111.28,"text":"因為我問了他"},{"start":6111.28,"end":6113.28,"text":"說到底我要做什麼"},{"start":6113.28,"end":6115.28,"text":"我將來要怎麼做要怎麼回報"},{"start":6115.28,"end":6118.28,"text":"他說No,聶教授以你的專業"},{"start":6118.28,"end":6120.28,"text":"替國家的錢納稅義務人進去的時候"},{"start":6120.28,"end":6122.28,"text":"幫國家做財務把關"},{"start":6122.28,"end":6125.28,"text":"替納稅義務人爭取權益就對了"},{"start":6125.28,"end":6126.28,"text":"我聽了以後非常棒"},{"start":6126.28,"end":6128.28,"text":"我說那他說有問題再回報"},{"start":6128.28,"end":6129.28,"text":"我說那太好了"},{"start":6129.28,"end":6132.28,"text":"當然我在做的那個黨在這個歷任間"},{"start":6132.28,"end":6134.28,"text":"幾乎沒有什麼問題"},{"start":6134.28,"end":6136.28,"text":"而且我在的這一家金控"},{"start":6136.28,"end":6138.28,"text":"我非常的感覺非常溫馨"},{"start":6138.28,"end":6139.28,"text":"因為販官民共志"},{"start":6139.28,"end":6143.28,"text":"所以官民共志銀行它是有很多感情和溫度在裡面的"},{"start":6143.28,"end":6144.28,"text":"我在裡面非常的舒服"},{"start":6144.28,"end":6147.28,"text":"在這十年的日子裡"},{"start":6147.28,"end":6151.28,"text":"而且到現在無法忘記在過去的快樂時光"},{"start":6151.28,"end":6152.28,"text":"不過不管怎麼說"},{"start":6152.28,"end":6155.28,"text":"雖然這個官民共志給了我很多的溫暖"},{"start":6155.28,"end":6157.28,"text":"我還是要講一下我們國家的錢的使用"},{"start":6157.28,"end":6158.28,"text":"不可以亂用"},{"start":6158.28,"end":6159.28,"text":"當然要怎麼使用"},{"start":6159.28,"end":6162.28,"text":"那當然就是你要為全民大股東"},{"start":6162.28,"end":6164.28,"text":"因為我們納稅人就是全民股東"},{"start":6164.28,"end":6166.28,"text":"全民股東的錢你一定要替他把關"},{"start":6166.28,"end":6168.28,"text":"首先我們很快講一下"},{"start":6168.28,"end":6171.28,"text":"政府實質持股的比例做一個所謂的扒收"},{"start":6171.28,"end":6174.28,"text":"那我們可以看到這裡有六家"},{"start":6174.28,"end":6175.28,"text":"包括銀行有兩家"},{"start":6175.28,"end":6176.28,"text":"我用藍色的底"},{"start":6176.28,"end":6178.28,"text":"就是中小企業及商銀"},{"start":6178.28,"end":6179.28,"text":"它是也叫做販官股"},{"start":6179.28,"end":6181.28,"text":"但是它是銀行體系"},{"start":6181.28,"end":6183.28,"text":"而我們現在在listing company是用金控"},{"start":6183.28,"end":6186.28,"text":"當然金控很多可能是銀行為主體"},{"start":6186.28,"end":6188.28,"text":"不管怎麼說我們可以看到下面幾家"},{"start":6188.28,"end":6191.28,"text":"當然其中有一家就是我一直很懷念的一家"},{"start":6191.28,"end":6193.28,"text":"總共是有六家"},{"start":6193.28,"end":6196.28,"text":"不管怎麼說我們所有的八大行庫大概就是這裡"},{"start":6196.28,"end":6198.28,"text":"當然再加上我們純屬百分百持股的"},{"start":6198.28,"end":6200.28,"text":"台灣銀行土地銀行"},{"start":6200.28,"end":6202.28,"text":"當然我們有所謂廣義的定義"},{"start":6202.28,"end":6204.28,"text":"還有就是只有財政部持股的定義"},{"start":6204.28,"end":6205.28,"text":"各位看一下就好了"},{"start":6205.28,"end":6207.28,"text":"我們看下一頁"},{"start":6207.28,"end":6209.28,"text":"這不是自己調控是嗎"},{"start":6209.28,"end":6211.28,"text":"當然這裡要解讀一下"},{"start":6211.28,"end":6213.28,"text":"當然我一直強調這個官民共志"},{"start":6213.28,"end":6214.28,"text":"這是一個典範"},{"start":6214.28,"end":6216.28,"text":"當然這是一個零家"},{"start":6216.28,"end":6217.28,"text":"我們都知道零家花園"},{"start":6217.28,"end":6218.28,"text":"當然它的資產夠"},{"start":6218.28,"end":6222.28,"text":"當然他們從過去1919年到現在"},{"start":6222.28,"end":6225.28,"text":"當然現在有一個很有感情氛圍的官民共志"},{"start":6225.28,"end":6227.28,"text":"所以官方也很重視這個民股"},{"start":6227.28,"end":6228.28,"text":"這是一個典範"},{"start":6228.28,"end":6230.28,"text":"再來第二個我們也知道"},{"start":6230.28,"end":6236.28,"text":"2002年交通銀行跟ICPC病理後成了兆豐金"},{"start":6236.28,"end":6240.28,"text":"這一個純公股核心的官股"},{"start":6240.28,"end":6242.28,"text":"大家知道這個在整病之初"},{"start":6242.28,"end":6243.28,"text":"故事非常多"},{"start":6243.28,"end":6246.28,"text":"2002年12月的時候三大整病案"},{"start":6246.28,"end":6247.28,"text":"這個是最失敗的一個"},{"start":6247.28,"end":6251.28,"text":"當時的泛官股的整病是有很多的問題的"},{"start":6251.28,"end":6253.28,"text":"不過後來當然走上了不錯的路程"},{"start":6253.28,"end":6255.28,"text":"當時我是用比較的"},{"start":6255.28,"end":6256.28,"text":"另外兩個比較成功"},{"start":6256.28,"end":6258.28,"text":"在2002年大家都知道是富邦跟台北"},{"start":6258.28,"end":6261.28,"text":"大家以為是小的富邦病大的台北"},{"start":6261.28,"end":6262.28,"text":"其實並不是"},{"start":6262.28,"end":6264.28,"text":"我幫當時的馬英九講點話非常清楚"},{"start":6264.28,"end":6266.28,"text":"是富邦是在金控成立之前"},{"start":6266.28,"end":6267.28,"text":"就是一個三角都"},{"start":6267.28,"end":6268.28,"text":"就是一個有三隻腳"},{"start":6268.28,"end":6270.28,"text":"證券銀行保險都非常穩的"},{"start":6270.28,"end":6272.28,"text":"所以是一個大的富邦金"},{"start":6272.28,"end":6274.28,"text":"類比金來併了台北銀行的"},{"start":6274.28,"end":6276.28,"text":"第三個當然我覺得也算成功"},{"start":6276.28,"end":6278.28,"text":"是一個保險大怪獸去併了"},{"start":6278.28,"end":6281.28,"text":"在普通第一個在2001年就試點的"},{"start":6281.28,"end":6283.28,"text":"這個叫世界華僑銀行的四華銀行"},{"start":6283.28,"end":6286.28,"text":"因為再大的體質你是保險也好"},{"start":6286.28,"end":6287.28,"text":"是一個票券也好"},{"start":6287.28,"end":6290.28,"text":"如果你沒有銀行通路根本走不出去"},{"start":6290.28,"end":6291.28,"text":"銀行就是你的眼睛"},{"start":6291.28,"end":6293.28,"text":"就是你的腳就是你的觸角"},{"start":6293.28,"end":6294.28,"text":"你沒有銀行就不行"},{"start":6294.28,"end":6296.28,"text":"所以國內非常充分的四華銀行"},{"start":6296.28,"end":6297.28,"text":"因此當時在2009年"},{"start":6297.28,"end":6299.28,"text":"第一次到大陸去的六家銀行"},{"start":6299.28,"end":6300.28,"text":"五家官股"},{"start":6300.28,"end":6302.28,"text":"只有一家叫國泰四華就這樣來的"},{"start":6302.28,"end":6305.28,"text":"第三個張銀回歸全公務主導這應該的"},{"start":6305.28,"end":6307.28,"text":"因為在民國94年就是一個特別股案"},{"start":6307.28,"end":6309.28,"text":"這個案子太奇怪了"},{"start":6309.28,"end":6310.28,"text":"怎麼特別股還有選舉權呢"},{"start":6310.28,"end":6312.28,"text":"當然這是五大弊端之一"},{"start":6312.28,"end":6316.28,"text":"因此讓台新也成了一個類官民共志"},{"start":6316.28,"end":6317.28,"text":"可是這樣有點怪怪的"},{"start":6317.28,"end":6320.28,"text":"所以最後你會發覺郭啟榮號稱的三商銀"},{"start":6320.28,"end":6321.28,"text":"一銀的體質一直不錯"},{"start":6321.28,"end":6324.28,"text":"當然華銀一直在猛後直追"},{"start":6324.28,"end":6326.28,"text":"但是我們的張銀真的就輸得很多"},{"start":6326.28,"end":6328.28,"text":"所以張銀現在回歸公務主導"},{"start":6328.28,"end":6329.28,"text":"有他的道理"},{"start":6329.28,"end":6331.28,"text":"但是公股一定要好好的經營"},{"start":6331.28,"end":6333.28,"text":"否則的話也會出問題下一頁"},{"start":6333.28,"end":6334.28,"text":"好那我們時間的關係"},{"start":6334.28,"end":6336.28,"text":"我們這方面一個字叫Final Reform"},{"start":6336.28,"end":6338.28,"text":"金融改革不斷的有"},{"start":6338.28,"end":6339.28,"text":"我們一次金改二次金改"},{"start":6339.28,"end":6341.28,"text":"是叫民進黨一次金改二次金改"},{"start":6341.28,"end":6342.28,"text":"過去我們在1990年"},{"start":6342.28,"end":6345.28,"text":"我們從1966年我們的經濟慢慢活絡之後"},{"start":6345.28,"end":6348.28,"text":"我們的活水為了要流要Catch Flow"},{"start":6348.28,"end":6350.28,"text":"我們就慢慢逐步開放了銀行"},{"start":6350.28,"end":6351.28,"text":"像我們講的四華銀行"},{"start":6351.28,"end":6352.28,"text":"台北銀行高雄銀行"},{"start":6352.28,"end":6355.28,"text":"都是在1966年到1990年開放"},{"start":6355.28,"end":6356.28,"text":"1990年之後"},{"start":6356.28,"end":6359.28,"text":"當時的王健開放從25家變52家"},{"start":6359.28,"end":6361.28,"text":"與後存存的銀行開始惡性競爭"},{"start":6361.28,"end":6362.28,"text":"預防比增高"},{"start":6362.28,"end":6365.28,"text":"後來資本數字都出問題"},{"start":6365.28,"end":6367.28,"text":"因此兩天才會有金控法"},{"start":6367.28,"end":6368.28,"text":"我現在講的是Final Reform"},{"start":6368.28,"end":6370.28,"text":"在第一次的258兩年內"},{"start":6370.28,"end":6372.28,"text":"2001年要達到"},{"start":6372.28,"end":6375.28,"text":"所以預防比5以下資本稅8以上"},{"start":6375.28,"end":6377.28,"text":"非常的算不錯我是支持的"},{"start":6377.28,"end":6379.28,"text":"不過第二次就因為錢的問題"},{"start":6379.28,"end":6380.28,"text":"一堆的弊端"},{"start":6380.28,"end":6382.28,"text":"還不止五大弊端就出現了"},{"start":6382.28,"end":6384.28,"text":"我現在講的就是你公股後代手裡"},{"start":6384.28,"end":6386.28,"text":"國家的錢是最敏感"},{"start":6386.28,"end":6387.28,"text":"一定要非常小心"},{"start":6387.28,"end":6389.28,"text":"金融機構整病它有它的必要"},{"start":6389.28,"end":6390.28,"text":"但是怎麼說是必要呢"},{"start":6390.28,"end":6392.28,"text":"因為現在我們都知道"},{"start":6392.28,"end":6393.28,"text":"現在民營的銀行"},{"start":6393.28,"end":6394.28,"text":"譬如中國金融啊"},{"start":6394.28,"end":6395.28,"text":"或者富邦病日盛"},{"start":6395.28,"end":6397.28,"text":"台金病新光這是最近的事"},{"start":6397.28,"end":6399.28,"text":"我也引述寫了很多的文章"},{"start":6399.28,"end":6400.28,"text":"不過最重要的事情是"},{"start":6400.28,"end":6403.28,"text":"公股如果還用最以前的"},{"start":6403.28,"end":6405.28,"text":"公務心態去做事的話"},{"start":6405.28,"end":6406.28,"text":"我跟你講沒有辦法去"},{"start":6406.28,"end":6408.28,"text":"跟這個比較活潑 active"},{"start":6408.28,"end":6411.28,"text":"甚至帶一個帥哥美女在門面的"},{"start":6411.28,"end":6413.28,"text":"所謂的民股銀行要贏得多"},{"start":6413.28,"end":6415.28,"text":"這個整病或者改革是有它的必要性"},{"start":6415.28,"end":6416.28,"text":"還有迫切性"},{"start":6416.28,"end":6418.28,"text":"那我就說從所見"},{"start":6418.28,"end":6420.28,"text":"競爭力還有獲利的結構非常重要"},{"start":6420.28,"end":6423.28,"text":"當然時間的關係我不可能一一講得太清楚"},{"start":6423.28,"end":6424.28,"text":"打破過度的同質性競爭"},{"start":6424.28,"end":6426.28,"text":"優化財務或獲利利率"},{"start":6426.28,"end":6428.28,"text":"還要推動這個獲利多元化"},{"start":6428.28,"end":6429.28,"text":"擴大經濟規模"},{"start":6429.28,"end":6431.28,"text":"最後財務當裡面就有報告"},{"start":6431.28,"end":6433.28,"text":"公股必須支離一個明確的併購策略"},{"start":6433.28,"end":6434.28,"text":"這個非常重要"},{"start":6434.28,"end":6435.28,"text":"策略要明確"},{"start":6435.28,"end":6437.28,"text":"就像我們所有東西要強調透明一樣"},{"start":6437.28,"end":6439.28,"text":"然後尋找最重要一個叫業務要互補"},{"start":6439.28,"end":6441.28,"text":"我待會會講的這互補的重要性"},{"start":6441.28,"end":6443.28,"text":"最後獲利要多元化"},{"start":6443.28,"end":6444.28,"text":"因為大家都知道"},{"start":6444.28,"end":6445.28,"text":"我們世界已經改了"},{"start":6445.28,"end":6449.28,"text":"從2001年的Final Innovation到後來的Final Engineering"},{"start":6449.28,"end":6452.28,"text":"到後來的West Management在2003年"},{"start":6452.28,"end":6455.28,"text":"我們在延續業開始有所謂的以財規劃式的考照"},{"start":6455.28,"end":6457.28,"text":"我們美國的CAP也在2002年出來"},{"start":6457.28,"end":6460.28,"text":"這個財務管理這些多元化都要做得很好"},{"start":6460.28,"end":6463.28,"text":"才補不到才有辦法壯大業務能量"},{"start":6463.28,"end":6464.28,"text":"公股銀行必須知道這個"},{"start":6464.28,"end":6465.28,"text":"好 下面一頁"},{"start":6465.28,"end":6467.28,"text":"下一頁 好 不好意思"},{"start":6467.28,"end":6469.28,"text":"那當整個我們剛剛講必要性"},{"start":6469.28,"end":6470.28,"text":"必要的 但先迫切"},{"start":6470.28,"end":6472.28,"text":"因為剛剛講到外在環境"},{"start":6472.28,"end":6476.28,"text":"民營銀行的獲利基礎也這樣雙面夾殺"},{"start":6476.28,"end":6477.28,"text":"各位去看一下很多民營銀行"},{"start":6477.28,"end":6479.28,"text":"真的連他們派的董事薪水都很高"},{"start":6479.28,"end":6481.28,"text":"為什麼 因為他們獲利很高"},{"start":6481.28,"end":6485.28,"text":"因為他們比較能夠自由奔放"},{"start":6485.28,"end":6487.28,"text":"好 那我們時間非常有限"},{"start":6487.28,"end":6488.28,"text":"好 那不管怎麼樣"},{"start":6488.28,"end":6490.28,"text":"好啦 那我們時間太有限了"},{"start":6490.28,"end":6493.28,"text":"所以我們先講一下財政部最新的書面報告"},{"start":6493.28,"end":6496.28,"text":"當然就要講到公共病的效益供應等等的"},{"start":6496.28,"end":6497.28,"text":"我們在下一頁"},{"start":6497.28,"end":6499.28,"text":"我每次來這邊做太多"},{"start":6499.28,"end":6500.28,"text":"這個實在是講不下去"},{"start":6500.28,"end":6501.28,"text":"來 再下一頁"},{"start":6501.28,"end":6503.28,"text":"來 我們的下一頁非常重要"},{"start":6503.28,"end":6505.28,"text":"我們講 官務一定要對股東做三星責任"},{"start":6505.28,"end":6507.28,"text":"這責任最重要就是保障股東權益"},{"start":6507.28,"end":6509.28,"text":"我們講公民對待資金投資我們都不講了"},{"start":6509.28,"end":6511.28,"text":"你有我有併購之後才能查到3C效果"},{"start":6511.28,"end":6513.28,"text":"才能產生Synergy縱效"},{"start":6513.28,"end":6514.28,"text":"你才能獲取營業利益"},{"start":6514.28,"end":6516.28,"text":"然後股東的價值才會提升"},{"start":6516.28,"end":6518.28,"text":"就是達到了我們財富的第一個叫股東價值提升"},{"start":6518.28,"end":6519.28,"text":"好 下面一頁"},{"start":6519.28,"end":6520.28,"text":"好 下面也很重要"},{"start":6520.28,"end":6523.28,"text":"這個就是我們在2001年訂基金供法的時候"},{"start":6523.28,"end":6524.28,"text":"強調的一個3C效果"},{"start":6524.28,"end":6525.28,"text":"要Cross Selling"},{"start":6525.28,"end":6527.28,"text":"Cross Selling and Capital Efficiency"},{"start":6527.28,"end":6529.28,"text":"這個是正面大於負面"},{"start":6529.28,"end":6530.28,"text":"但負面也是有像Cross Selling"},{"start":6530.28,"end":6533.28,"text":"你只要把員工一整合 效率一整合"},{"start":6533.28,"end":6534.28,"text":"員工就出問題"},{"start":6534.28,"end":6536.28,"text":"當時最麻煩就是富邦金就說"},{"start":6536.28,"end":6537.28,"text":"我並台北京你們不要緊張"},{"start":6537.28,"end":6538.28,"text":"我不會解僱你們的"},{"start":6538.28,"end":6539.28,"text":"保證一年不會解僱"},{"start":6539.28,"end":6541.28,"text":"第二年解僱"},{"start":6541.28,"end":6543.28,"text":"所以我的學生當時富邦金的富永講說"},{"start":6543.28,"end":6544.28,"text":"好多人都很緊張"},{"start":6544.28,"end":6546.28,"text":"說他知道明年一定被解僱"},{"start":6546.28,"end":6548.28,"text":"Anyway 大家去想一下這個失業的問題"},{"start":6548.28,"end":6550.28,"text":"好 縱效怎麼產生"},{"start":6550.28,"end":6551.28,"text":"沒辦法講"},{"start":6551.28,"end":6552.28,"text":"那縱效裡面有三樣東西"},{"start":6552.28,"end":6553.28,"text":"就是兩個"},{"start":6553.28,"end":6554.28,"text":"一個要增加Revenue"},{"start":6554.28,"end":6556.28,"text":"兩個Cross Selling"},{"start":6556.28,"end":6557.28,"text":"就是我們右邊的選議表"},{"start":6557.28,"end":6558.28,"text":"我們要一加一"},{"start":6558.28,"end":6559.28,"text":"像我和我太結婚"},{"start":6559.28,"end":6560.28,"text":"要生三個孩子"},{"start":6560.28,"end":6561.28,"text":"叫做一加一大於五"},{"start":6561.28,"end":6562.28,"text":"這非常重要"},{"start":6562.28,"end":6563.28,"text":"你不能只是大於二"},{"start":6563.28,"end":6564.28,"text":"而且要互補"},{"start":6564.28,"end":6566.28,"text":"一男一女就可以生下三個孩子"},{"start":6566.28,"end":6568.28,"text":"Anyway 公共病 公民病"},{"start":6568.28,"end":6569.28,"text":"到底什麼比較好"},{"start":6569.28,"end":6571.28,"text":"我跟你講 這一定是因事之疑"},{"start":6571.28,"end":6572.28,"text":"因地之疑"},{"start":6572.28,"end":6573.28,"text":"這不一定的"},{"start":6573.28,"end":6574.28,"text":"要看哪一種"},{"start":6574.28,"end":6575.28,"text":"我先講剛剛有人講國票"},{"start":6575.28,"end":6576.28,"text":"我今天天天上電視"},{"start":6576.28,"end":6577.28,"text":"我明天還有三台電視"},{"start":6577.28,"end":6578.28,"text":"有兩個都要講國票"},{"start":6578.28,"end":6580.28,"text":"國票的問題真的是非常大"},{"start":6580.28,"end":6581.28,"text":"我是這樣認為的"},{"start":6581.28,"end":6582.28,"text":"今天你沒有觀察你票捐"},{"start":6582.28,"end":6583.28,"text":"你要的銀行"},{"start":6583.28,"end":6584.28,"text":"之前有個安泰銀行"},{"start":6584.28,"end":6585.28,"text":"你現在呢"},{"start":6585.28,"end":6586.28,"text":"兆豐也不想要你"},{"start":6586.28,"end":6587.28,"text":"這個第一也不想要你"},{"start":6587.28,"end":6589.28,"text":"現在國票走哪一條路不知道"},{"start":6589.28,"end":6591.28,"text":"我覺得翻股你可以做公共病"},{"start":6591.28,"end":6592.28,"text":"但是我覺得公民病可能更好"},{"start":6592.28,"end":6593.28,"text":"這就是要達到互補"},{"start":6593.28,"end":6595.28,"text":"如果有公共病是不同的是"},{"start":6595.28,"end":6596.28,"text":"同職異業"},{"start":6596.28,"end":6598.28,"text":"同業異職喔"},{"start":6598.28,"end":6599.28,"text":"你是同業沒有關"},{"start":6599.28,"end":6600.28,"text":"都金融業"},{"start":6600.28,"end":6601.28,"text":"但你異職不同業"},{"start":6601.28,"end":6602.28,"text":"只要達到的所謂的"},{"start":6602.28,"end":6603.28,"text":"Complementary叫做互補"},{"start":6603.28,"end":6605.28,"text":"你就可能成功好下去"},{"start":6605.28,"end":6606.28,"text":"我們時間很有限"},{"start":6606.28,"end":6607.28,"text":"我知道時間不夠了"},{"start":6607.28,"end":6609.28,"text":"Anyway 合金的策略怎麼做"},{"start":6609.28,"end":6610.28,"text":"我覺得有一些"},{"start":6610.28,"end":6612.28,"text":"政策性的步驟要走"},{"start":6612.28,"end":6615.28,"text":"假設我有機會再講清楚的話"},{"start":6615.28,"end":6617.28,"text":"甚至我覺得在短中長期"},{"start":6617.28,"end":6618.28,"text":"如何"},{"start":6618.28,"end":6620.28,"text":"我昨天在一個電視開玩笑"},{"start":6620.28,"end":6621.28,"text":"叫蘇明大頭"},{"start":6621.28,"end":6622.28,"text":"我說國標金證"},{"start":6622.28,"end":6623.28,"text":"有些問題"},{"start":6623.28,"end":6624.28,"text":"如果今天讓我來做"},{"start":6624.28,"end":6625.28,"text":"我搞不好就把它做好了"},{"start":6625.28,"end":6626.28,"text":"當然我沒有這個機會"},{"start":6626.28,"end":6627.28,"text":"不會真的想做"},{"start":6627.28,"end":6628.28,"text":"我就可以把它"},{"start":6628.28,"end":6629.28,"text":"一步一步到位"},{"start":6629.28,"end":6630.28,"text":"我覺得這個"},{"start":6630.28,"end":6631.28,"text":"整病的過程"},{"start":6631.28,"end":6633.28,"text":"只要去抽絲剝繭"},{"start":6633.28,"end":6635.28,"text":"它的財報把它弄得清楚"},{"start":6635.28,"end":6636.28,"text":"以及它最重要的"},{"start":6636.28,"end":6637.28,"text":"剛剛又講到幾個重要的點"},{"start":6637.28,"end":6639.28,"text":"我這樣講一下就好了"},{"start":6639.28,"end":6640.28,"text":"二列金證"},{"start":6640.28,"end":6641.28,"text":"公平病也好"},{"start":6641.28,"end":6642.28,"text":"我沒有說只是哪一方"},{"start":6642.28,"end":6644.28,"text":"但是整病是非常重要的"},{"start":6644.28,"end":6646.28,"text":"就你一定要評估效益"},{"start":6646.28,"end":6648.28,"text":"還有一定要考慮到員工的信心"},{"start":6648.28,"end":6650.28,"text":"剛剛講到文化非常重要"},{"start":6650.28,"end":6652.28,"text":"如果你只是考慮到財務"},{"start":6652.28,"end":6653.28,"text":"企業文化"},{"start":6653.28,"end":6654.28,"text":"員工信心不符"},{"start":6654.28,"end":6655.28,"text":"你就沒辦法穩定軍心"},{"start":6655.28,"end":6656.28,"text":"剛才我們"},{"start":6656.28,"end":6658.28,"text":"過去的黃安經理事長講到這個"},{"start":6658.28,"end":6659.28,"text":"因為我覺得穩定軍心很重要"},{"start":6659.28,"end":6661.28,"text":"因為我以前在的一家金控公司"},{"start":6661.28,"end":6662.28,"text":"軍心很穩定"},{"start":6662.28,"end":6663.28,"text":"每次到年底的時候"},{"start":6663.28,"end":6664.28,"text":"還會有很棒的參會"},{"start":6664.28,"end":6665.28,"text":"還有很棒的委員"},{"start":6665.28,"end":6667.28,"text":"我想你想走都不會想走"},{"start":6667.28,"end":6668.28,"text":"這是重點"},{"start":6668.28,"end":6669.28,"text":"後面我就不多講了"},{"start":6669.28,"end":6670.28,"text":"包括適合醫的問題"},{"start":6670.28,"end":6671.28,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":6675.28,"end":6679.28,"text":"謝謝聶教授的發言"},{"start":6679.28,"end":6682.28,"text":"抱歉沒辦法讓你上訴議員"},{"start":6682.28,"end":6684.28,"text":"我知道你準備很多的資料"},{"start":6684.28,"end":6688.28,"text":"好 我們在所有的學者專家"},{"start":6688.28,"end":6689.28,"text":"都發言過了"},{"start":6689.28,"end":6691.28,"text":"我們現在先請"},{"start":6691.28,"end":6695.28,"text":"這個犯公股的部分"},{"start":6695.28,"end":6697.28,"text":"來做一個訪問"},{"start":6697.28,"end":6700.28,"text":"來做簡單的回應"},{"start":6700.28,"end":6702.28,"text":"首先第一個請"},{"start":6702.28,"end":6704.28,"text":"這個犯公股的龍頭"},{"start":6704.28,"end":6706.28,"text":"趙豐金的總統好不好"},{"start":6710.28,"end":6712.28,"text":"因為我們的加速比較多"},{"start":6712.28,"end":6714.28,"text":"也就上三分鐘好不好"},{"start":6714.28,"end":6716.28,"text":"你三分鐘對公共病這個題目"},{"start":6716.28,"end":6718.28,"text":"有什麼看法"},{"start":6720.28,"end":6722.28,"text":"主席各位先進"},{"start":6722.28,"end":6724.28,"text":"我們在座的"},{"start":6724.28,"end":6726.28,"text":"所有這些犯公股的總總"},{"start":6726.28,"end":6729.28,"text":"都是官派的專業經理人"},{"start":6729.28,"end":6730.28,"text":"所以像公共病也好"},{"start":6730.28,"end":6731.28,"text":"公民病也好"},{"start":6731.28,"end":6733.28,"text":"或任何甚至牽涉到股東"},{"start":6733.28,"end":6734.28,"text":"重大權益的事情"},{"start":6734.28,"end":6736.28,"text":"在政策的研議過程當中"},{"start":6736.28,"end":6738.28,"text":"當然我們一定會把我們的"},{"start":6738.28,"end":6740.28,"text":"因為我們身為專業經理人"},{"start":6740.28,"end":6741.28,"text":"我們一定會把我們的想法"},{"start":6741.28,"end":6743.28,"text":"誠實的跟所有的政策的"},{"start":6743.28,"end":6745.28,"text":"製定者長官報告"},{"start":6745.28,"end":6747.28,"text":"在這種各種討論之後"},{"start":6747.28,"end":6748.28,"text":"做成的決定"},{"start":6748.28,"end":6750.28,"text":"那當然我們就一定來執行"},{"start":6750.28,"end":6751.28,"text":"所以沒有所謂"},{"start":6751.28,"end":6753.28,"text":"我們不執行這樣的一個道理"},{"start":6753.28,"end":6755.28,"text":"我們就是在做政策的凝聚過程當中"},{"start":6755.28,"end":6757.28,"text":"我們一定盡我們的義務"},{"start":6757.28,"end":6759.28,"text":"會把我們的想法充分的反應出來"},{"start":6759.28,"end":6760.28,"text":"那我們的想法"},{"start":6760.28,"end":6762.28,"text":"譬如說剛剛講的公共病"},{"start":6762.28,"end":6763.28,"text":"我們的想法是什麼"},{"start":6763.28,"end":6764.28,"text":"剛剛學者專家"},{"start":6764.28,"end":6766.28,"text":"甚至我們的公會都講了很多"},{"start":6766.28,"end":6767.28,"text":"有沒有新的級的問題"},{"start":6767.28,"end":6770.28,"text":"有沒有1加1大以2大以3的問題"},{"start":6770.28,"end":6771.28,"text":"可不可以達到這樣的目的"},{"start":6771.28,"end":6774.28,"text":"或者說甚至有沒有企業文化的問題"},{"start":6774.28,"end":6776.28,"text":"然後對員工的安置"},{"start":6776.28,"end":6779.28,"text":"對我們的所有客戶的保障問題"},{"start":6779.28,"end":6780.28,"text":"這些當然我們都必須要"},{"start":6780.28,"end":6781.28,"text":"把它反應出來"},{"start":6781.28,"end":6783.28,"text":"我們認為對跟錯"},{"start":6783.28,"end":6785.28,"text":"我們都必須要把它反應出來"},{"start":6785.28,"end":6787.28,"text":"那這個在整個政策凝聚的過程當中"},{"start":6787.28,"end":6789.28,"text":"我們一定會按照這樣做"},{"start":6789.28,"end":6790.28,"text":"做完之後"},{"start":6790.28,"end":6792.28,"text":"接下來政策自定了"},{"start":6792.28,"end":6794.28,"text":"我們再來按照政策來執行"},{"start":6794.28,"end":6796.28,"text":"中間有任何的"},{"start":6796.28,"end":6798.28,"text":"只要是政策一自定"},{"start":6798.28,"end":6799.28,"text":"有任何的這些困難"},{"start":6799.28,"end":6801.28,"text":"當然我們就會一一去排除"},{"start":6801.28,"end":6803.28,"text":"這是我基本的看法"},{"start":6803.28,"end":6804.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6804.28,"end":6805.28,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":6805.28,"end":6807.28,"text":"所以董董的意思是"},{"start":6807.28,"end":6808.28,"text":"要聽財政部的"},{"start":6808.28,"end":6810.28,"text":"財政部說要叫你病就病"},{"start":6810.28,"end":6811.28,"text":"是這個意思嗎"},{"start":6811.28,"end":6812.28,"text":"當然就"},{"start":6812.28,"end":6815.28,"text":"因為現在政策還沒確定"},{"start":6815.28,"end":6816.28,"text":"所以當然是可以討論的"},{"start":6816.28,"end":6817.28,"text":"我們也可以表達"},{"start":6817.28,"end":6818.28,"text":"所以叫你病"},{"start":6818.28,"end":6820.28,"text":"要股票金也可以"},{"start":6820.28,"end":6821.28,"text":"那這是"},{"start":6821.28,"end":6823.28,"text":"我想我們是上市"},{"start":6823.28,"end":6825.28,"text":"兩條都是上市公司"},{"start":6825.28,"end":6828.28,"text":"不適合在現在的股票交易的時間"},{"start":6828.28,"end":6829.28,"text":"在討論這個事情"},{"start":6829.28,"end":6831.28,"text":"一定會影響到股市的"},{"start":6831.28,"end":6834.28,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":6834.28,"end":6837.28,"text":"第二請第一金的邱董事長"},{"start":6837.28,"end":6838.28,"text":"邱董事長"},{"start":6838.28,"end":6840.28,"text":"表達一下"},{"start":6840.28,"end":6842.28,"text":"是不是就跟董董一樣"},{"start":6842.28,"end":6843.28,"text":"看財政部怎麼說"},{"start":6843.28,"end":6845.28,"text":"你們怎麼做"},{"start":6849.28,"end":6851.28,"text":"委員還有各位專家學者"},{"start":6851.28,"end":6854.28,"text":"各位長官大家早安"},{"start":6854.28,"end":6856.28,"text":"我想第一銀行也是"},{"start":6856.28,"end":6858.28,"text":"放公股的銀行是一樣"},{"start":6858.28,"end":6860.28,"text":"剛剛董董也提到了"},{"start":6860.28,"end":6862.28,"text":"我們都是專業經理人"},{"start":6862.28,"end":6864.28,"text":"剛剛許多專家學者的意見"},{"start":6864.28,"end":6866.28,"text":"我覺得相當的有道理"},{"start":6866.28,"end":6868.28,"text":"就是在合併的過程"},{"start":6868.28,"end":6869.28,"text":"它只是一個"},{"start":6869.28,"end":6870.28,"text":"不是一個目的"},{"start":6870.28,"end":6872.28,"text":"是在一個提升"},{"start":6872.28,"end":6874.28,"text":"我們競爭力的工具"},{"start":6874.28,"end":6875.28,"text":"所以如果能夠提升"},{"start":6875.28,"end":6877.28,"text":"我們的經營績效"},{"start":6877.28,"end":6879.28,"text":"能夠提高我們的員工權益"},{"start":6879.28,"end":6881.28,"text":"跟股東權益的話"},{"start":6881.28,"end":6883.28,"text":"我想這樣的一個併購策略"},{"start":6883.28,"end":6884.28,"text":"我們會認真的考慮"},{"start":6884.28,"end":6887.28,"text":"提供給我們的主管機關來參考"},{"start":6887.28,"end":6892.28,"text":"所以目前沒有公共病的構想"},{"start":6892.28,"end":6895.28,"text":"目前還沒有去思考"},{"start":6895.28,"end":6897.28,"text":"沒有接受到命令就對了"},{"start":6897.28,"end":6899.28,"text":"目前我們還沒有"},{"start":6899.28,"end":6900.28,"text":"想法"},{"start":6900.28,"end":6902.28,"text":"目前還沒有這個想法"},{"start":6902.28,"end":6905.28,"text":"好現在會請張萬銀的胡董事長"},{"start":6905.28,"end":6909.28,"text":"因為外界盛傳"},{"start":6909.28,"end":6911.28,"text":"你們要訂要公票金"},{"start":6911.28,"end":6913.28,"text":"有沒有這回事講一下"},{"start":6917.28,"end":6921.28,"text":"委員好我想對市場的傳聞跟評論"},{"start":6921.28,"end":6924.28,"text":"我們目前沒辦法去評論"},{"start":6924.28,"end":6926.28,"text":"不過主要像今天的專家學者"},{"start":6926.28,"end":6927.28,"text":"我想提了很多"},{"start":6927.28,"end":6929.28,"text":"基本上只要對彰化銀行"},{"start":6929.28,"end":6932.28,"text":"長期的提升競爭力"},{"start":6932.28,"end":6934.28,"text":"還可以提升股東的權益"},{"start":6934.28,"end":6936.28,"text":"跟創造企業價值"},{"start":6936.28,"end":6938.28,"text":"這個部分我想彰化銀行"},{"start":6938.28,"end":6942.28,"text":"都會持開放審慎的態度來評估"},{"start":6942.28,"end":6944.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6944.28,"end":6946.28,"text":"你們是銀行嗎"},{"start":6946.28,"end":6948.28,"text":"國標金最缺就是銀行"},{"start":6948.28,"end":6950.28,"text":"所以你要用中國誰"},{"start":6950.28,"end":6952.28,"text":"你有沒有感覺到這樣"},{"start":6952.28,"end":6954.28,"text":"彰化銀行因為是上市公司"},{"start":6954.28,"end":6956.28,"text":"我想不適合去評論"},{"start":6956.28,"end":6960.28,"text":"還沒有民進展"},{"start":6960.28,"end":6962.28,"text":"所以你可以再講一句話"},{"start":6962.28,"end":6964.28,"text":"財政部如果要你病"},{"start":6964.28,"end":6965.28,"text":"你就病是不是"},{"start":6965.28,"end":6968.28,"text":"這個我沒辦法代替財政部來做說明"},{"start":6968.28,"end":6970.28,"text":"好等一下請財政部發言"},{"start":6970.28,"end":6974.28,"text":"我們請黃南金的陳董事長"},{"start":6974.28,"end":6976.28,"text":"陳董事長"},{"start":6978.28,"end":6980.28,"text":"來抱歉這個"},{"start":6980.28,"end":6982.28,"text":"我先請國標金的"},{"start":6982.28,"end":6984.28,"text":"張董事長對不起"},{"start":6984.28,"end":6986.28,"text":"因為他有跟我辦公室"},{"start":6986.28,"end":6991.28,"text":"先講11點回去開董事會"},{"start":6991.28,"end":6993.28,"text":"所以請國標金"},{"start":6995.28,"end":6998.28,"text":"你特別跟我們回應一下"},{"start":6998.28,"end":7000.28,"text":"你們心目中"},{"start":7000.28,"end":7001.28,"text":"如果跟你們合併"},{"start":7001.28,"end":7003.28,"text":"或者你跟人家合併"},{"start":7003.28,"end":7005.28,"text":"我們條件沒有這樣好不好"},{"start":7005.28,"end":7010.28,"text":"好謝謝賴委員還有我們部長"},{"start":7010.28,"end":7013.28,"text":"還有金管會的主委"},{"start":7013.28,"end":7014.28,"text":"還有各位長官"},{"start":7014.28,"end":7016.28,"text":"還有各位學者專家"},{"start":7016.28,"end":7019.28,"text":"還有我們各位金融的同業"},{"start":7019.28,"end":7021.28,"text":"大家早安大家好"},{"start":7021.28,"end":7027.28,"text":"我想今天是因為國標金的問題"},{"start":7027.28,"end":7031.28,"text":"才引出今天的這個會議"},{"start":7031.28,"end":7038.28,"text":"那我想國標金原來是一個迷你女郎"},{"start":7038.28,"end":7041.28,"text":"那他的規模非常的小"},{"start":7041.28,"end":7049.28,"text":"所以原來就用迷你女郎的規範在處理"},{"start":7049.28,"end":7052.28,"text":"他規模小到什麼程度呢"},{"start":7052.28,"end":7056.28,"text":"他的資本我只有336億"},{"start":7056.28,"end":7059.28,"text":"淨值只有451億"},{"start":7059.28,"end":7063.28,"text":"其中我們還拿了60幾億去投資網路銀行"},{"start":7063.28,"end":7068.28,"text":"所以可以用的資金確實是很有限"},{"start":7068.28,"end":7071.28,"text":"那在這樣一個情況之下"},{"start":7071.28,"end":7076.28,"text":"我們事實上經營的是還不錯"},{"start":7076.28,"end":7079.28,"text":"因為我們今年的上半年"},{"start":7079.28,"end":7081.28,"text":"我們規模很小"},{"start":7081.28,"end":7083.28,"text":"但是我們今年的上半年"},{"start":7083.28,"end":7087.28,"text":"ROE如果換算全聯的話"},{"start":7087.28,"end":7090.28,"text":"大概也有11.5"},{"start":7090.28,"end":7094.28,"text":"這個在所有公營銀行裡面"},{"start":7094.28,"end":7097.28,"text":"ROE的比例算很高"},{"start":7097.28,"end":7102.28,"text":"所以如果只看獲利的數字"},{"start":7102.28,"end":7104.28,"text":"或者是EPS"},{"start":7104.28,"end":7107.28,"text":"我們當然是不好"},{"start":7107.28,"end":7110.28,"text":"所以這一塊"},{"start":7110.28,"end":7118.28,"text":"我要為我們國標金的同仁打打氣"},{"start":7118.28,"end":7125.28,"text":"那國標金的規模這麼小"},{"start":7125.28,"end":7129.28,"text":"他們可以經營到這樣的一個狀態"},{"start":7129.28,"end":7136.28,"text":"那他過去的制度就是採用這個迷你女郎的方式"},{"start":7136.28,"end":7141.28,"text":"那這一次5月底"},{"start":7141.28,"end":7144.28,"text":"股東會改選董事的結果"},{"start":7144.28,"end":7152.28,"text":"關股透過委託諸諸徵詢或者是策略聯盟"},{"start":7152.28,"end":7157.28,"text":"他拿到巴西董事剛好過半"},{"start":7157.28,"end":7167.28,"text":"瞬間就用公股的所有的標準"},{"start":7167.28,"end":7172.28,"text":"來檢視我們國標金的所有的東西"},{"start":7172.28,"end":7178.28,"text":"這兩個是需要時間才能夠這樣檢視的"},{"start":7178.28,"end":7180.28,"text":"瞬間這樣一解釋以後"},{"start":7180.28,"end":7183.28,"text":"有些東西不是國標金的問題"},{"start":7183.28,"end":7185.28,"text":"像譬如說第一個"},{"start":7185.28,"end":7188.28,"text":"現在第一個要檢討的就是我們的待遇"},{"start":7188.28,"end":7190.28,"text":"我們待遇是可以檢討的"},{"start":7190.28,"end":7195.28,"text":"我也希望我們的待遇一定要跟你的績效掛鉤"},{"start":7195.28,"end":7197.28,"text":"這可以檢討的"},{"start":7197.28,"end":7202.28,"text":"但是所有東西都用公股的標準來檢視的話"},{"start":7202.28,"end":7207.28,"text":"我可以坦白講我做過4家公股的董事長"},{"start":7207.28,"end":7210.28,"text":"我曾經賣掉一家"},{"start":7210.28,"end":7216.28,"text":"有一家也跟趙鋒斌後來他們獨立"},{"start":7216.28,"end":7224.28,"text":"我做過4家的董事長都是因為臨時出了事才去的"},{"start":7224.28,"end":7231.28,"text":"我這裡必須為公股的銀行來爭取一些錢"},{"start":7231.28,"end":7234.28,"text":"他們的待遇確實太低了"},{"start":7234.28,"end":7239.28,"text":"跟所有的金融機構來比真的太低了"},{"start":7239.28,"end":7243.28,"text":"現在國標金是一個迷你的銀行"},{"start":7243.28,"end":7249.28,"text":"瞬間因為董事剛好過半"},{"start":7249.28,"end":7256.28,"text":"就要用公股的標準全部來檢視他"},{"start":7256.28,"end":7258.28,"text":"我覺得這不公平"},{"start":7258.28,"end":7261.28,"text":"所以對我們員工來講真的不公平"},{"start":7261.28,"end":7265.28,"text":"不是不能檢視應該檢視"},{"start":7265.28,"end":7272.28,"text":"因為我壽命來這裡的時候就被告知"},{"start":7272.28,"end":7275.28,"text":"他說這家公司內耗很嚴重"},{"start":7275.28,"end":7278.28,"text":"公司治理需要加強"},{"start":7278.28,"end":7283.28,"text":"你去的第一個重點就是要減少內耗"},{"start":7283.28,"end":7287.28,"text":"加強公司治理"},{"start":7287.28,"end":7289.28,"text":"然後提升金融機構"},{"start":7289.28,"end":7295.28,"text":"我覺得這個任務是我的專長"},{"start":7295.28,"end":7301.28,"text":"那我後來被勸說答應了"},{"start":7301.28,"end":7304.28,"text":"就來了這裡"},{"start":7304.28,"end":7309.28,"text":"那這家公司未來應該何其何從"},{"start":7309.28,"end":7313.28,"text":"現在變成巴西關股戰鬥事務以後"},{"start":7313.28,"end":7315.28,"text":"應該何其何從"},{"start":7315.28,"end":7319.28,"text":"那我就遵從壽命的時候"},{"start":7319.28,"end":7323.28,"text":"所被告知的任務"},{"start":7323.28,"end":7326.28,"text":"消除內耗"},{"start":7326.28,"end":7329.28,"text":"提升金融機構"},{"start":7329.28,"end":7331.28,"text":"加強公司治理"},{"start":7331.28,"end":7336.28,"text":"我一定要把它整頓的美美的"},{"start":7336.28,"end":7339.28,"text":"這家公司一定要病"},{"start":7339.28,"end":7341.28,"text":"因為規模太小了"},{"start":7341.28,"end":7342.28,"text":"不是病人就是被病"},{"start":7342.28,"end":7344.28,"text":"病人也是被病"},{"start":7344.28,"end":7346.28,"text":"因為太小了"},{"start":7346.28,"end":7349.28,"text":"所以我一定要去做這個事情"},{"start":7349.28,"end":7350.28,"text":"所以一定要怎麼樣"},{"start":7350.28,"end":7352.28,"text":"把它弄得美美的"},{"start":7352.28,"end":7355.28,"text":"然後讓大家都喜歡來病我們"},{"start":7355.28,"end":7357.28,"text":"我的任務是這個"},{"start":7357.28,"end":7360.28,"text":"那以現在急救章就是說"},{"start":7360.28,"end":7362.28,"text":"你們趕快點人家病"},{"start":7366.28,"end":7369.28,"text":"現在有人說我們是爛蘋果"},{"start":7369.28,"end":7372.28,"text":"有的人被點名病我們的時候"},{"start":7372.28,"end":7375.28,"text":"他股票連跌三天"},{"start":7378.28,"end":7380.28,"text":"這個時候病對股東對員工"},{"start":7380.28,"end":7382.28,"text":"都是重大的傷害"},{"start":7384.28,"end":7386.28,"text":"所以我的主要任務是"},{"start":7386.28,"end":7388.28,"text":"把它弄得美美的"},{"start":7388.28,"end":7390.28,"text":"然後讓大家都想病"},{"start":7390.28,"end":7393.28,"text":"當被我點名說你可能會病我們的時候"},{"start":7393.28,"end":7395.28,"text":"他股票連漲七天"},{"start":7397.28,"end":7400.28,"text":"我想這才是我們應該做的事情"},{"start":7401.28,"end":7404.28,"text":"所以是不是給我們時間"},{"start":7404.28,"end":7406.28,"text":"我希望在最短的時間內"},{"start":7406.28,"end":7408.28,"text":"把公司經營得非常好"},{"start":7408.28,"end":7410.28,"text":"這是我的專長"},{"start":7411.28,"end":7413.28,"text":"然後最後我們也要整病"},{"start":7413.28,"end":7416.28,"text":"所以請各位宮古金控的"},{"start":7416.28,"end":7418.28,"text":"你們就拭目以待"},{"start":7418.28,"end":7421.28,"text":"準備搶我們才對"},{"start":7422.28,"end":7426.28,"text":"而不是每天嫌我們爛蘋果"},{"start":7427.28,"end":7428.28,"text":"而被點名"},{"start":7428.28,"end":7431.28,"text":"剛才三位都是被點名的先報告"},{"start":7431.28,"end":7433.28,"text":"我跟他們都很緊張"},{"start":7433.28,"end":7435.28,"text":"也不敢講"},{"start":7436.28,"end":7438.28,"text":"當然可以公共病"},{"start":7438.28,"end":7440.28,"text":"是可以的"},{"start":7440.28,"end":7443.28,"text":"但是也不一定要排除公共病"},{"start":7443.28,"end":7446.28,"text":"事實上民間的假設需要我們"},{"start":7446.28,"end":7447.28,"text":"可以出高價"},{"start":7447.28,"end":7448.28,"text":"對股東不是很大的"},{"start":7448.28,"end":7451.28,"text":"對股東跟員工不是很大的這個"},{"start":7452.28,"end":7454.28,"text":"這個福利"},{"start":7455.28,"end":7459.28,"text":"所以我現在的任務大概就這樣"},{"start":7459.28,"end":7460.28,"text":"報告完畢"},{"start":7460.28,"end":7461.28,"text":"請大家給我們支持"},{"start":7461.28,"end":7462.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7462.28,"end":7464.28,"text":"等一下"},{"start":7466.28,"end":7468.28,"text":"我是就是認識"},{"start":7468.28,"end":7471.28,"text":"你以前在做照分董事長"},{"start":7471.28,"end":7473.28,"text":"這下是不錯"},{"start":7474.28,"end":7477.28,"text":"你剛才說你自己是要來救我的"},{"start":7478.28,"end":7480.28,"text":"但是我聽的感覺怎麼"},{"start":7480.28,"end":7481.28,"text":"聽起來感覺是說"},{"start":7481.28,"end":7483.28,"text":"好像你要變成化外之地"},{"start":7483.28,"end":7485.28,"text":"你現在是換宮古"},{"start":7485.28,"end":7487.28,"text":"第九家換宮古"},{"start":7487.28,"end":7488.28,"text":"那前面這麼多"},{"start":7488.28,"end":7490.28,"text":"比如說我們董董"},{"start":7490.28,"end":7491.28,"text":"學者出身"},{"start":7491.28,"end":7492.28,"text":"做這麼一站"},{"start":7492.28,"end":7494.28,"text":"那個薪水放到多少"},{"start":7494.28,"end":7496.28,"text":"最少沒有一千萬"},{"start":7496.28,"end":7497.28,"text":"沒有"},{"start":7497.28,"end":7499.28,"text":"你兩千多萬"},{"start":7499.28,"end":7501.28,"text":"你甘願減一下"},{"start":7501.28,"end":7502.28,"text":"對不對你做得不錯"},{"start":7502.28,"end":7503.28,"text":"我們董董也做得不錯"},{"start":7503.28,"end":7506.28,"text":"都當過照分局的董事長"},{"start":7506.28,"end":7508.28,"text":"你是翻宮古"},{"start":7508.28,"end":7510.28,"text":"我們部長拿多少薪水"},{"start":7510.28,"end":7511.28,"text":"你給我問一下"},{"start":7511.28,"end":7512.28,"text":"部長這麼辛苦"},{"start":7512.28,"end":7513.28,"text":"你多少薪水"},{"start":7513.28,"end":7515.28,"text":"我們政委委員辦主委"},{"start":7515.28,"end":7516.28,"text":"拿多少薪水"},{"start":7516.28,"end":7518.28,"text":"你們是董事長"},{"start":7518.28,"end":7520.28,"text":"你是財政部叫你去的"},{"start":7520.28,"end":7523.28,"text":"你一聲要給他兩千六百萬"},{"start":7523.28,"end":7525.28,"text":"你甘不不好意思"},{"start":7525.28,"end":7528.28,"text":"這個我沒有拿到那麼多"},{"start":7528.28,"end":7529.28,"text":"這個我先"},{"start":7529.28,"end":7530.28,"text":"超過兩千"},{"start":7530.28,"end":7531.28,"text":"我先回憶一下"},{"start":7531.28,"end":7533.28,"text":"你超過兩千對不對"},{"start":7533.28,"end":7536.28,"text":"我只有知道我月薪是多少"},{"start":7536.28,"end":7538.28,"text":"超過兩千"},{"start":7538.28,"end":7540.28,"text":"副董事長的兩千"},{"start":7540.28,"end":7541.28,"text":"你怎麼超過兩千"},{"start":7541.28,"end":7542.28,"text":"這個我給他說明一下"},{"start":7542.28,"end":7547.28,"text":"其實國際的這個"},{"start":7547.28,"end":7549.28,"text":"金控的這個薪水結構"},{"start":7549.28,"end":7550.28,"text":"沒有你盡量說得好"},{"start":7550.28,"end":7551.28,"text":"因為我們其他"},{"start":7551.28,"end":7552.28,"text":"你給我講一下"},{"start":7553.28,"end":7554.28,"text":"他的薪水結構"},{"start":7554.28,"end":7557.28,"text":"其實他月薪並沒有高很多"},{"start":7557.28,"end":7559.28,"text":"但是他的獎金"},{"start":7559.28,"end":7563.28,"text":"跟這些員工紅利"},{"start":7563.28,"end":7564.28,"text":"是比較多一點"},{"start":7564.28,"end":7566.28,"text":"所以我剛才講了"},{"start":7566.28,"end":7567.28,"text":"月薪並不多"},{"start":7567.28,"end":7570.28,"text":"那我剛才也講得非常清楚"},{"start":7570.28,"end":7576.28,"text":"你的報酬要跟你的貢獻"},{"start":7576.28,"end":7577.28,"text":"你的績效掛鉤"},{"start":7577.28,"end":7579.28,"text":"這個就是我現在要做的事情"},{"start":7579.28,"end":7582.28,"text":"所以也許我們這一次的董事會"},{"start":7582.28,"end":7584.28,"text":"我們就會檢討"},{"start":7584.28,"end":7585.28,"text":"我們就會要求"},{"start":7585.28,"end":7586.28,"text":"而且我們的薪酬"},{"start":7586.28,"end":7588.28,"text":"都經過薪酬委員會"},{"start":7588.28,"end":7590.28,"text":"薪酬委員會是由五個"},{"start":7590.28,"end":7591.28,"text":"五個"},{"start":7591.28,"end":7592.28,"text":"我來請教你"},{"start":7592.28,"end":7595.28,"text":"因為其他還有官國要講話"},{"start":7595.28,"end":7597.28,"text":"你盡量回答我"},{"start":7597.28,"end":7600.28,"text":"你董事長說話算不算"},{"start":7600.28,"end":7601.28,"text":"當然算"},{"start":7601.28,"end":7602.28,"text":"對"},{"start":7602.28,"end":7604.28,"text":"你副董事長你又照不住"},{"start":7604.28,"end":7606.28,"text":"你又算你身上哪裡去"},{"start":7606.28,"end":7608.28,"text":"我們外面怎麼看"},{"start":7608.28,"end":7609.28,"text":"表面上你是董事長"},{"start":7609.28,"end":7611.28,"text":"實際上是那個陳副董事長"},{"start":7611.28,"end":7613.28,"text":"才是真正的董事長"},{"start":7613.28,"end":7614.28,"text":"不可能"},{"start":7614.28,"end":7615.28,"text":"你還好"},{"start":7615.28,"end":7616.28,"text":"還好大聲一點"},{"start":7616.28,"end":7619.28,"text":"這個都可以檢討"},{"start":7619.28,"end":7620.28,"text":"從這裏"},{"start":7620.28,"end":7621.28,"text":"副董事長"},{"start":7621.28,"end":7622.28,"text":"叫不來"},{"start":7622.28,"end":7623.28,"text":"怎麼那麼快"},{"start":7623.28,"end":7624.28,"text":"存在都可以檢討"},{"start":7624.28,"end":7625.28,"text":"我跟他講"},{"start":7625.28,"end":7626.28,"text":"我對你"},{"start":7626.28,"end":7627.28,"text":"回去檢討好不好"},{"start":7627.28,"end":7628.28,"text":"回去檢討"},{"start":7628.28,"end":7629.28,"text":"你們已經是放空股"},{"start":7629.28,"end":7630.28,"text":"對不起"},{"start":7630.28,"end":7633.28,"text":"張董事長請你告訴陳副董事長"},{"start":7633.28,"end":7635.28,"text":"你們從那一天開始"},{"start":7635.28,"end":7637.28,"text":"你們就是放空股"},{"start":7637.28,"end":7638.28,"text":"就要接受監督"},{"start":7638.2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{"start":7987.28,"end":7988.28,"text":"跟大會報告"},{"start":7988.28,"end":7991.28,"text":"因為這個張董事長要回去開董事會"},{"start":7991.28,"end":7993.28,"text":"所以我先給他理行"},{"start":7993.28,"end":7996.28,"text":"黃南軍的陳董事長請"},{"start":8013.28,"end":8014.28,"text":"委員好"},{"start":8016.28,"end":8018.28,"text":"OK"},{"start":8020.28,"end":8021.28,"text":"我要講什麼"},{"start":8023.28,"end":8026.28,"text":"我就請你講一下"},{"start":8026.28,"end":8027.28,"text":"我們今天同一題目"},{"start":8027.28,"end":8028.28,"text":"金金病"},{"start":8028.28,"end":8030.28,"text":"你們有沒有可能去病國標金"},{"start":8030.28,"end":8032.28,"text":"或者有沒有想要病其他的金融機構"},{"start":8032.28,"end":8033.28,"text":"有沒有"},{"start":8033.28,"end":8035.28,"text":"我想合併的問題"},{"start":8035.28,"end":8038.28,"text":"前面那個趙峰跟一營都有"},{"start":8038.28,"end":8040.28,"text":"第一金都有提過"},{"start":8040.28,"end":8043.28,"text":"那我們黃南軍的這個態度是一致的"},{"start":8043.28,"end":8045.28,"text":"那我想"},{"start":8045.28,"end":8048.28,"text":"大家可能會比較想聽到說"},{"start":8048.28,"end":8050.28,"text":"我們黃南軍這個"},{"start":8050.28,"end":8053.28,"text":"官民共治的這個一個現況"},{"start":8053.28,"end":8058.28,"text":"那我可以跟委員還有在場大家來說明一下"},{"start":8058.28,"end":8060.28,"text":"其實黃南軍他"},{"start":8060.28,"end":8062.28,"text":"官民共治的時間已經非常長"},{"start":8062.28,"end":8066.28,"text":"這期間大家也都有經過一些磨合期"},{"start":8066.28,"end":8069.28,"text":"所以已經有形成一個"},{"start":8069.28,"end":8070.28,"text":"很合理"},{"start":8070.28,"end":8074.28,"text":"而且是符合公司治理的一個經營模式"},{"start":8074.28,"end":8077.28,"text":"當然每個人會有每個人在專業背景不同"},{"start":8077.28,"end":8079.28,"text":"有不同的想法"},{"start":8079.28,"end":8081.28,"text":"對某些議題會有不同的想法"},{"start":8081.28,"end":8082.28,"text":"這中間的話"},{"start":8082.28,"end":8085.28,"text":"我的態度就是透過溝通的方式"},{"start":8085.28,"end":8088.28,"text":"來尋求大家的一個共識"},{"start":8088.28,"end":8089.28,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":8089.28,"end":8090.28,"text":"截至目前來說"},{"start":8090.28,"end":8093.28,"text":"經營的算是合理還是順暢"},{"start":8093.28,"end":8099.28,"text":"那至於說剛剛有公會的理事長們提到說"},{"start":8099.28,"end":8101.28,"text":"這個合併的議題"},{"start":8101.28,"end":8105.28,"text":"那因為現在我們正在進行這個四合一的合併"},{"start":8105.28,"end":8111.28,"text":"已經走到就是跟員工來協商這個員工安置計畫"},{"start":8111.28,"end":8115.28,"text":"那我們的做法就是完全是公開透明"},{"start":8115.28,"end":8118.28,"text":"我們跟我們投信的工會"},{"start":8118.28,"end":8120.28,"text":"我們都定期在開會"},{"start":8120.28,"end":8123.28,"text":"我們只要有一些安置計畫出來"},{"start":8123.28,"end":8126.28,"text":"那個版本一定是原原本本的"},{"start":8126.28,"end":8128.28,"text":"就讓工會來審視"},{"start":8128.28,"end":8129.28,"text":"讓他們有什麼意見"},{"start":8129.28,"end":8130.28,"text":"他都可以跟我們反應"},{"start":8130.28,"end":8132.28,"text":"我們再跟第一經這邊來反應"},{"start":8132.28,"end":8134.28,"text":"所以說這個部分"},{"start":8134.28,"end":8138.28,"text":"我們甚至也有請第一經的董總"},{"start":8138.28,"end":8143.28,"text":"跟我們的華南永昌投信的同仁"},{"start":8143.28,"end":8145.28,"text":"來報告說他們以後會怎麼樣"},{"start":8145.28,"end":8148.28,"text":"經營這個合併後的新公司"},{"start":8148.28,"end":8152.28,"text":"他們對員工的處理會是什麼樣一個模式"},{"start":8152.28,"end":8155.28,"text":"這些我們都是對員工是公平"},{"start":8155.28,"end":8157.28,"text":"就是公開透明"},{"start":8157.28,"end":8160.28,"text":"我們不希望說員工會覺得說"},{"start":8160.28,"end":8163.28,"text":"我們在背後有些小動作"},{"start":8163.28,"end":8166.28,"text":"我們完全是沒有這樣子的一個情況以上"},{"start":8166.28,"end":8171.28,"text":"好謝謝陳董事長的說明"},{"start":8171.28,"end":8174.28,"text":"林副董事長要不要補充一下"},{"start":8174.28,"end":8176.28,"text":"這樣子"},{"start":8176.28,"end":8181.28,"text":"我今天高度肯定你來的"},{"start":8181.28,"end":8183.28,"text":"這個因為"},{"start":8183.28,"end":8189.28,"text":"因為我們陳董事長特別提到官民共治"},{"start":8189.28,"end":8194.279999999999,"text":"官民共治就因為華南經原來的林家"},{"start":8194.279999999999,"end":8197.279999999999,"text":"他完全跟國泰經是不一樣的"},{"start":8197.279999999999,"end":8199.279999999999,"text":"原來林家的持股是非常多的"},{"start":8199.279999999999,"end":8205.279999999999,"text":"官民共治外面有肯定有政府正反面都有"},{"start":8205.279999999999,"end":8209.279999999999,"text":"基本上社會基本上也都接受了"},{"start":8209.279999999999,"end":8210.279999999999,"text":"你確定不要補充前兩句"},{"start":8210.28,"end":8212.28,"text":"讓你秀一下"},{"start":8212.28,"end":8221.28,"text":"好我們下一位請合作金庫的林董事長"},{"start":8221.28,"end":8225.28,"text":"就針對這個題目你發表意見好不好"},{"start":8230.28,"end":8233.28,"text":"保安委員還有各位長官"},{"start":8233.28,"end":8234.28,"text":"那各位專家"},{"start":8234.28,"end":8237.28,"text":"那合庫也是公共銀行"},{"start":8237.28,"end":8240.28,"text":"所以我們對政策任務一向是全力配合"},{"start":8240.28,"end":8244.28,"text":"所以我們一定會配合財政部的指導"},{"start":8244.28,"end":8249.28,"text":"然後依序評估審慎辦理"},{"start":8249.28,"end":8253.28,"text":"跟其他幾位公務行戶之前談的都是一樣"},{"start":8253.28,"end":8255.28,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":8255.28,"end":8258.28,"text":"我們看周小慶的李董事長"},{"start":8258.28,"end":8264.28,"text":"今天就是其實每一次關口銀行董總來這裡都是練習的沒講什麼話"},{"start":8264.28,"end":8267.28,"text":"今天你看我對待大方讓你們講話講很多來"},{"start":8267.28,"end":8270.28,"text":"請講一下你可以多講一點嗎"},{"start":8272.28,"end":8277.28,"text":"委員好那我們這個台灣中小企業銀行"},{"start":8277.28,"end":8281.28,"text":"是台灣唯一的一家中小微的專業的一個銀行"},{"start":8281.28,"end":8289.28,"text":"那我們監督了很多與很多中小微企業的融資跟輔導的政策任務"},{"start":8289.28,"end":8292.28,"text":"所以我們顧客情的非常的龐大跟複雜"},{"start":8292.28,"end":8295.28,"text":"那現在的這種經營環境動盪不安"},{"start":8295.28,"end":8300.28,"text":"所以我們的最主要的任務就是把自己做大做強"},{"start":8300.28,"end":8305.28,"text":"來全力的來協助這些中小微企業來成長茁壯"},{"start":8305.28,"end":8310.28,"text":"所以對併購的議題目前還沒有深入的研究"},{"start":8310.28,"end":8314.28,"text":"所以你們不可能併購標籤不可能"},{"start":8314.28,"end":8316.28,"text":"目前沒有這方面的評估"},{"start":8316.28,"end":8322.28,"text":"謝謝我們下一位請中小中國輸出銀行"},{"start":8322.28,"end":8324.28,"text":"要代主席"},{"start":8324.28,"end":8328.28,"text":"你國歌不可能沒關係來講一下"},{"start":8333.28,"end":8336.28,"text":"委員各位長官還有各位學者專家"},{"start":8336.28,"end":8343.28,"text":"我們中國輸出銀行就是在民國68年成立的銀行"},{"start":8343.28,"end":8348.28,"text":"我們的定位很清楚就強化貿易金融協助對外貿易"},{"start":8348.28,"end":8353.28,"text":"尤其現在我們協助廠商就是拓展海外的這些布局"},{"start":8353.28,"end":8356.28,"text":"我們協助廠商去分攤這些出口的風險"},{"start":8356.28,"end":8360.28,"text":"所以這些相關的定位跟功能非常清楚"},{"start":8360.28,"end":8365.28,"text":"相關的國家也都有唯一的輸出銀行辦理同樣的業務"},{"start":8365.28,"end":8369.28,"text":"所以我想我們對我們既有的業務好好的來辦理以上"},{"start":8369.28,"end":8373.28,"text":"所以簡單來講就是你不可能併人家也不可能被併"},{"start":8373.28,"end":8375.28,"text":"就是一句話"},{"start":8375.28,"end":8377.28,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":8377.28,"end":8381.28,"text":"抱歉把最重要幾個放在最後面"},{"start":8381.28,"end":8386.28,"text":"台灣銀行台灣金控的林董事長"},{"start":8388.28,"end":8391.28,"text":"你剛剛好像忘了你是台灣金控董事長"},{"start":8391.28,"end":8393.28,"text":"我剛才講林董事長沒有回應"},{"start":8393.28,"end":8403.28,"text":"好委員好還有所有在座的各位教授"},{"start":8403.28,"end":8406.28,"text":"還有理事長還有我們金控的所有的董總"},{"start":8406.28,"end":8412.28,"text":"還有今天在座的各位應該是媒體媒體朋友們大家早安"},{"start":8412.28,"end":8418.28,"text":"首先我要非常感謝我們賴委員今天舉辦這個公聽會"},{"start":8418.28,"end":8423.28,"text":"也非常感謝賴委員今天邀請了這麼多的學者專家"},{"start":8423.28,"end":8426.28,"text":"剛才都提出了非常多精闢的見解"},{"start":8426.28,"end":8430.28,"text":"讓我們對整個併購的議題有更深入的了解"},{"start":8430.28,"end":8433.28,"text":"也知道說未來併購應該要注意的一些問題"},{"start":8433.28,"end":8436.28,"text":"過去成功的案例還有一些失敗的案例"},{"start":8436.28,"end":8438.28,"text":"為什麼會成功為什麼會失敗"},{"start":8438.28,"end":8440.28,"text":"我想在這邊都有非常精闢的分析"},{"start":8440.28,"end":8446.28,"text":"我對各位學者還有我們公會的幾位理事長都感到非常的敬佩"},{"start":8446.28,"end":8450.28,"text":"當然最重要敬佩的還是我們今天的主席"},{"start":8450.28,"end":8454.28,"text":"主席今天讓我最後上來就表示說我實在是沒有什麼重要性"},{"start":8454.28,"end":8458.28,"text":"為什麼因為我就是一家國營的行庫"},{"start":8458.28,"end":8461.28,"text":"這個國營的行庫就目前的條件來看的話"},{"start":8461.28,"end":8463.28,"text":"是沒有人要跟我們併的"},{"start":8463.28,"end":8466.28,"text":"為什麼因為我們剛剛學者有提到"},{"start":8466.28,"end":8469.28,"text":"就是合併它要能夠強化全球的佈局"},{"start":8469.28,"end":8471.28,"text":"那也可以有一些範疇的經濟"},{"start":8471.28,"end":8474.28,"text":"最終的目的就是能夠強化競爭力"},{"start":8474.28,"end":8478.28,"text":"我想這個全球的競爭力真的是就我們台灣目前的金融機構來講"},{"start":8478.28,"end":8480.28,"text":"規模都太小"},{"start":8480.28,"end":8485.28,"text":"在國際間其實要成為一個有聲望或者是有影響力的銀行"},{"start":8485.28,"end":8488.28,"text":"其實目前整個路途都還很遙遠"},{"start":8488.28,"end":8491.28,"text":"所以如果可以透過併購"},{"start":8491.28,"end":8494.28,"text":"不管是公共病公民病任何一種病"},{"start":8494.28,"end":8495.28,"text":"如果能夠強化競爭力"},{"start":8495.28,"end":8500.28,"text":"我覺得這個都是我們可以樂觀其成的一個未來的方向"},{"start":8500.28,"end":8502.28,"text":"但是目前我們"},{"start":8502.28,"end":8505.28,"text":"我就國營的行庫來講好了"},{"start":8505.28,"end":8507.28,"text":"因為我們是國營行庫"},{"start":8507.28,"end":8511.28,"text":"所以不管是我或者是土營或者是輸出的銀行"},{"start":8511.28,"end":8515.28,"text":"我們三家目前都是屬於國營行庫"},{"start":8515.28,"end":8518.28,"text":"所以也受到公務人員服務法的規範"},{"start":8518.28,"end":8520.28,"text":"時間到了嗎"},{"start":8520.28,"end":8526.28,"text":"因為受到很大的規範"},{"start":8526.28,"end":8529.28,"text":"所以它在整個管理制度上有很大的拘束"},{"start":8529.28,"end":8531.28,"text":"尤其就人才上來講"},{"start":8531.28,"end":8535.28,"text":"我們知道人才其實就是金融裡面最重要的一個資產"},{"start":8535.28,"end":8538.28,"text":"有好的人才我們怎麼樣能夠攬財"},{"start":8538.28,"end":8541.28,"text":"怎麼樣能夠留財把這些人留下來"},{"start":8541.28,"end":8542.28,"text":"讓我們的金融更壯大"},{"start":8542.28,"end":8545.28,"text":"這才是我們可以做到的一個這個點"},{"start":8545.28,"end":8550.28,"text":"目前其實我們用憲法的規定來看"},{"start":8550.28,"end":8552.28,"text":"憲法第十條第四項也是有規定"},{"start":8552.28,"end":8555.28,"text":"就是國家對公營金融機構的管理"},{"start":8555.28,"end":8558.28,"text":"這個憲法已經有明定給我們這樣的一個方向"},{"start":8558.28,"end":8561.28,"text":"應該本著企業化經營的原則"},{"start":8561.28,"end":8564.28,"text":"所以他的人事預算決算審計等等"},{"start":8564.28,"end":8566.28,"text":"都可以做一些特別的規定"},{"start":8566.28,"end":8568.28,"text":"既然有一些特別的規定"},{"start":8568.28,"end":8571.28,"text":"但是我們目前都沒有按照憲法"},{"start":8571.28,"end":8575.28,"text":"跟我們的權限去做一些比較特別的企業化經營的管理"},{"start":8575.28,"end":8579.28,"text":"所以現在我們這三家國營金融機構"},{"start":8579.28,"end":8582.28,"text":"就受到很大的限制"},{"start":8582.28,"end":8584.28,"text":"因為管理制度不管是對"},{"start":8584.28,"end":8588.28,"text":"就是目前對所有的國營金融機構的管理"},{"start":8588.28,"end":8591.28,"text":"跟泛公股的管理其實兩個制度是不一樣的"},{"start":8591.28,"end":8593.28,"text":"所以造成我們目前"},{"start":8593.28,"end":8595.28,"text":"剛我們工會理事長特別提到"},{"start":8595.28,"end":8600.28,"text":"就是說我們在整個績效上面的一些呈現"},{"start":8600.28,"end":8603.28,"text":"雖然績效不比其他家要差"},{"start":8603.28,"end":8604.28,"text":"我要特別講一下"},{"start":8604.28,"end":8608.28,"text":"其實如果我加上這個政策性任務的話"},{"start":8608.28,"end":8611.28,"text":"這個所有的泛公股裡面我的績效是最好的"},{"start":8611.28,"end":8612.28,"text":"我要這樣講"},{"start":8612.28,"end":8615.28,"text":"真的因為我們承擔非常多的一些政策性的任務"},{"start":8615.28,"end":8617.28,"text":"但是我們的經營績效"},{"start":8618.28,"end":8622.28,"text":"完全沒有跟我們的薪酬制度或者是績效制度"},{"start":8622.28,"end":8624.28,"text":"或者是員工的福利制度掛鉤"},{"start":8624.28,"end":8625.28,"text":"包括我們的薪水"},{"start":8625.28,"end":8627.28,"text":"包括我們的績效酬勞"},{"start":8627.28,"end":8628.28,"text":"包括我們的員工酬勞"},{"start":8628.28,"end":8630.28,"text":"這些都受到拘束"},{"start":8630.28,"end":8632.28,"text":"剛剛這個我就不重複了"},{"start":8632.28,"end":8634.28,"text":"剛剛我們理事長有特別講過了"},{"start":8634.28,"end":8636.28,"text":"其實我們金管會的主管也在這邊"},{"start":8636.28,"end":8639.28,"text":"金管會其實前兩天還在金融延續院"},{"start":8639.28,"end":8643.28,"text":"金融延續院頒發了所謂的員工福利信託的一個獎項"},{"start":8643.28,"end":8648.28,"text":"特別鼓勵我們所有的金融機構都可以去辦理員工福利信託"},{"start":8648.28,"end":8651.28,"text":"不只銀行本身辦理員工福利信託"},{"start":8651.28,"end":8655.28,"text":"還包括可以幫所有的企業都辦理員工福利信託"},{"start":8655.28,"end":8659.28,"text":"這一項在我們三家國銀行庫裡面是沒有的"},{"start":8659.28,"end":8661.28,"text":"也就是說我們對員工的照顧方面"},{"start":8661.28,"end":8662.28,"text":"我還可以講嗎"},{"start":8664.28,"end":8665.28,"text":"對員工的照顧方面"},{"start":8665.28,"end":8670.28,"text":"其實跟其他的飯公股其實是處在一個比較不公平的一些狀態"},{"start":8671.28,"end":8673.28,"text":"其實剛剛理事長講很多"},{"start":8673.28,"end":8675.28,"text":"包括我們的員工我們現在少指化"},{"start":8675.28,"end":8677.28,"text":"我們希望鼓勵員工多指"},{"start":8677.28,"end":8678.28,"text":"等一下我聽你講好了"},{"start":8678.28,"end":8679.28,"text":"我可以繼續講嗎"},{"start":8679.28,"end":8680.28,"text":"等一下我聽你講好了"},{"start":8680.28,"end":8681.28,"text":"你要幫我講"},{"start":8681.28,"end":8682.28,"text":"那我再講一個"},{"start":8682.28,"end":8684.28,"text":"今天因為很多的學者專家"},{"start":8684.28,"end":8689.28,"text":"他們都擔任過我們飯公股的一個董事或是監察人"},{"start":8689.28,"end":8690.28,"text":"那我要講一下"},{"start":8690.28,"end":8693.28,"text":"我們不管是台灣金控或是台灣銀行"},{"start":8693.28,"end":8696.28,"text":"我們要請人家來擔任我們的董事的時候"},{"start":8696.28,"end":8697.28,"text":"其實是非常困難的"},{"start":8697.28,"end":8698.28,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":8698.28,"end":8700.28,"text":"因為連董監的酬勞都不一樣"},{"start":8700.28,"end":8702.28,"text":"不是只有我們員工的薪水不一樣"},{"start":8702.28,"end":8704.28,"text":"我們董監的酬勞都不一樣"},{"start":8704.28,"end":8706.28,"text":"所以每個人聽到我們的董監酬勞"},{"start":8706.28,"end":8710.28,"text":"他們寧願選擇就是去飯公股當董事或監察"},{"start":8710.28,"end":8713.28,"text":"我們是兩萬塊"},{"start":8713.28,"end":8714.28,"text":"他們呢"},{"start":8714.28,"end":8716.28,"text":"他們就六萬到八萬不等"},{"start":8716.28,"end":8719.28,"text":"如果單單這樣的話還會再更高"},{"start":8719.28,"end":8721.28,"text":"然後另外還有就是說我們"},{"start":8721.28,"end":8722.28,"text":"這講起來很多"},{"start":8722.28,"end":8723.28,"text":"很多細節"},{"start":8723.28,"end":8724.28,"text":"我聽你講"},{"start":8724.28,"end":8726.28,"text":"我等一下聽你講好不好"},{"start":8726.28,"end":8728.28,"text":"還有我們信息人員的這個退休制度"},{"start":8728.28,"end":8730.28,"text":"其實跟所有其他飯公股比起來"},{"start":8730.28,"end":8732.28,"text":"它是相對非常非常弱勢"},{"start":8732.28,"end":8736.28,"text":"這就是為什麼我們台灣銀行在最近的這一兩年的徵才當中"},{"start":8736.28,"end":8737.28,"text":"其實"},{"start":8737.28,"end":8741.28,"text":"你能不能聚焦在今天公共病的問題說"},{"start":8741.28,"end":8742.28,"text":"你要不要去病人家"},{"start":8742.28,"end":8744.28,"text":"人家剛剛講台灣第一"},{"start":8744.28,"end":8745.28,"text":"你要不要"},{"start":8745.28,"end":8747.28,"text":"還是第一台灣你又不要"},{"start":8747.28,"end":8749.28,"text":"公共病公民病"},{"start":8749.28,"end":8752.28,"text":"我都持樂觀其成的態度"},{"start":8752.28,"end":8754.28,"text":"只是說在目前的制度之下"},{"start":8754.28,"end":8756.28,"text":"我跟其他飯公股不一樣"},{"start":8756.28,"end":8758.28,"text":"沒有人要跟我病"},{"start":8758.28,"end":8759.28,"text":"我要去病別人"},{"start":8759.28,"end":8760.28,"text":"別人也不想病給我"},{"start":8760.28,"end":8763.28,"text":"所以一定要把整個制度讓它有一個稍微的一定性"},{"start":8763.28,"end":8765.28,"text":"所以你台灣金控就是沒人愛就對了"},{"start":8765.28,"end":8766.28,"text":"對啦"},{"start":8766.28,"end":8767.28,"text":"這樣好聽"},{"start":8767.28,"end":8769.28,"text":"這樣聽懂了"},{"start":8769.28,"end":8771.28,"text":"台灣金控沒人愛"},{"start":8771.28,"end":8773.28,"text":"但是台灣金控有人愛"},{"start":8773.28,"end":8774.28,"text":"都是沒人愛"},{"start":8774.28,"end":8777.28,"text":"因為我們這個整個福利待遇制度"},{"start":8777.28,"end":8779.28,"text":"其實沒有人要跟我們病"},{"start":8779.28,"end":8780.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8780.28,"end":8787.28,"text":"跟肉依一家還有一個陳國穎的土地銀行的柯董事長"},{"start":8795.28,"end":8797.28,"text":"主席還有各位專家寫者"},{"start":8797.28,"end":8800.28,"text":"以及各位同學先進跟媒體記者大家好"},{"start":8800.28,"end":8802.28,"text":"土地銀行對於今天的主題"},{"start":8802.28,"end":8806.28,"text":"其實土地銀行目前是一個不動產專業銀行"},{"start":8806.28,"end":8811.28,"text":"並沒有去評估說會不會跟國標金控來做任何的合併"},{"start":8811.28,"end":8813.28,"text":"那如果真的做合併的話"},{"start":8813.28,"end":8816.28,"text":"就像剛剛台灣金控的董事長講的"},{"start":8816.28,"end":8819.28,"text":"其實事實上如果病進來了以後"},{"start":8819.28,"end":8820.28,"text":"由於它的股本很小"},{"start":8820.28,"end":8824.28,"text":"那我們百分之百的國營的持股的話"},{"start":8824.28,"end":8826.28,"text":"可能它的會病進來了以後"},{"start":8826.28,"end":8828.28,"text":"可能它可能就要下市了"},{"start":8828.28,"end":8832.28,"text":"因為政府的持股可能拿到百分之七八十以上"},{"start":8832.28,"end":8835.28,"text":"因為它只有淨值大概三百多億"},{"start":8835.28,"end":8838.28,"text":"那土地銀行現在大概兩千多億的淨值"},{"start":8838.28,"end":8840.28,"text":"那這樣病起來的話持股一換的話"},{"start":8840.28,"end":8847.28,"text":"可能整個來講可能會使得國票股權很期中"},{"start":8847.28,"end":8851.28,"text":"那可能它就可能也會變成國營的金控"},{"start":8851.28,"end":8854.28,"text":"那另外一個就是即使要合併的話"},{"start":8854.28,"end":8857.28,"text":"就像剛剛台灣金控的董事長講的"},{"start":8857.28,"end":8860.28,"text":"可能國票的同仁也不會很願意"},{"start":8860.28,"end":8864.28,"text":"因為整個的待遇的福利相差比較大"},{"start":8864.28,"end":8867.28,"text":"就像剛剛提到如果真的"},{"start":8867.28,"end":8870.28,"text":"我是不知道國票金控的董事長的薪水"},{"start":8870.28,"end":8874.28,"text":"如果以剛剛主席所講的那個金額的話"},{"start":8874.28,"end":8877.28,"text":"那大概是我們薪水的六七倍"},{"start":8877.28,"end":8880.28,"text":"我們董事長的薪水差距到這麼大"},{"start":8880.28,"end":8883.28,"text":"所以如果他們的員工甚至於他們的副總"},{"start":8883.28,"end":8885.28,"text":"或者是其他的高階的主管"},{"start":8885.28,"end":8887.28,"text":"可能會因為病進來了以後"},{"start":8887.28,"end":8889.28,"text":"他們可能很快就會離職"},{"start":8889.28,"end":8893.28,"text":"所以說整個病的中效可能也沒有如期那麼好"},{"start":8893.28,"end":8896.28,"text":"所以整個來講土地銀行並沒有去考慮到"},{"start":8896.28,"end":8898.28,"text":"是不是要合併這個事情"},{"start":8898.28,"end":8900.28,"text":"好那報告完畢"},{"start":8900.28,"end":8901.28,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":8901.28,"end":8904.28,"text":"我們所有的關股銀行哪一家沒有講到的有沒有"},{"start":8904.28,"end":8906.28,"text":"都講過了"},{"start":8906.28,"end":8909.28,"text":"你們今天應該很痛快的心情很好"},{"start":8909.28,"end":8911.28,"text":"因為以前來這裡都沒有叫我們講話"},{"start":8911.28,"end":8913.28,"text":"今天我們講話也沒有"},{"start":8913.28,"end":8915.28,"text":"對不對講那麼多話"},{"start":8915.28,"end":8918.28,"text":"讓大家知道你們在想什麼"},{"start":8918.28,"end":8922.28,"text":"那麼再請財政部長給我們總和答覆的時候"},{"start":8922.28,"end":8925.28,"text":"幾件事請部長一定可不可以"},{"start":8925.28,"end":8927.28,"text":"最少大方向"},{"start":8927.28,"end":8929.28,"text":"我們立法院可以幫你忙"},{"start":8929.28,"end":8932.28,"text":"第一個剛才的台土書"},{"start":8932.28,"end":8934.28,"text":"大家都知道"},{"start":8934.28,"end":8940.28,"text":"他們從董總一直到員工基本上是非常辛苦的"},{"start":8940.28,"end":8942.28,"text":"他們跟辦公股差一大截"},{"start":8942.28,"end":8945.28,"text":"比如說生一個小孩子"},{"start":8945.28,"end":8947.28,"text":"台土書多少補助多少"},{"start":8947.28,"end":8948.28,"text":"五千"},{"start":8948.28,"end":8950.28,"text":"五千或六千對不對"},{"start":8950.28,"end":8952.28,"text":"趙豐金補助多少"},{"start":8952.28,"end":8953.28,"text":"講一下"},{"start":8953.28,"end":8954.28,"text":"放下一下"},{"start":8955.28,"end":8957.28,"text":"十二萬啦各位聽好了"},{"start":8958.28,"end":8960.28,"text":"台土書的員工"},{"start":8961.28,"end":8964.28,"text":"他生小孩補助五千"},{"start":8964.28,"end":8966.28,"text":"趙豐金"},{"start":8966.28,"end":8970.28,"text":"趙豐金的員工生一個小孩十二萬"},{"start":8971.28,"end":8973.28,"text":"各位差幾倍"},{"start":8973.28,"end":8977.28,"text":"為什麼我們台土書都小孩子是不是"},{"start":8978.28,"end":8979.28,"text":"你們聽懂嗎"},{"start":8979.28,"end":8981.28,"text":"生小孩聽懂嗎"},{"start":8981.28,"end":8983.28,"text":"怎麼會這樣子"},{"start":8983.28,"end":8984.28,"text":"所以第一件"},{"start":8985.28,"end":8988.28,"text":"部長等一下跟我們能不能公開承諾"},{"start":8988.28,"end":8991.28,"text":"我們反正會用努力台土書比上辦公股"},{"start":8992.28,"end":8993.28,"text":"待遇"},{"start":8993.28,"end":8994.28,"text":"會不會殺你"},{"start":8996.28,"end":8997.28,"text":"你最少給我研究一下"},{"start":8997.28,"end":8999.28,"text":"多久時間研究給我們"},{"start":8999.28,"end":9001.28,"text":"需要立法院退我們來退零一百"},{"start":9002.28,"end":9003.28,"text":"會不會殺你"},{"start":9003.28,"end":9006.28,"text":"贊成你幫我拍一下"},{"start":9007.28,"end":9009.28,"text":"這麼讚"},{"start":9010.28,"end":9011.28,"text":"光光小孩子"},{"start":9011.28,"end":9015.28,"text":"我們旁邊好多記者小野先生都年輕的"},{"start":9015.28,"end":9016.28,"text":"你看到"},{"start":9016.28,"end":9017.28,"text":"他眼睛一亮"},{"start":9017.28,"end":9019.28,"text":"這個生一個小孩子"},{"start":9019.28,"end":9020.28,"text":"那邊五千一千十二萬"},{"start":9020.28,"end":9021.28,"text":"台灣人要一千"},{"start":9022.28,"end":9024.28,"text":"所以趙豐金相對找人才容易"},{"start":9024.28,"end":9025.28,"text":"對不對"},{"start":9025.28,"end":9027.28,"text":"這第一點部長講一下"},{"start":9027.28,"end":9029.28,"text":"有沒有可能這個地方努力"},{"start":9029.28,"end":9030.28,"text":"你是部長"},{"start":9031.28,"end":9032.28,"text":"你最重要"},{"start":9032.28,"end":9033.28,"text":"第二個"},{"start":9034.28,"end":9036.28,"text":"今天的題目公共命的問題"},{"start":9036.28,"end":9037.28,"text":"就是"},{"start":9037.28,"end":9038.28,"text":"國票金"},{"start":9039.28,"end":9040.28,"text":"剛才張董事長講了"},{"start":9041.28,"end":9044.28,"text":"他會先改善內部的體質"},{"start":9045.28,"end":9046.28,"text":"那外面"},{"start":9046.28,"end":9048.28,"text":"就是跟我的觀念是一樣的"},{"start":9049.28,"end":9052.28,"text":"他是辦公股的一員"},{"start":9053.28,"end":9054.28,"text":"他不能夠例外"},{"start":9055.28,"end":9057.28,"text":"他的董總高層"},{"start":9057.28,"end":9058.28,"text":"高層到哪裡"},{"start":9058.28,"end":9059.28,"text":"有沒有到副總"},{"start":9059.28,"end":9061.28,"text":"這個財政部可以去考慮"},{"start":9061.28,"end":9063.28,"text":"這個我沒有意見你們"},{"start":9063.28,"end":9064.28,"text":"我尊重你們"},{"start":9064.28,"end":9066.28,"text":"但是一定層級"},{"start":9066.28,"end":9067.28,"text":"我個人就認為"},{"start":9067.28,"end":9070.28,"text":"總經理以上的罪責都比趙豐辦公股"},{"start":9070.28,"end":9071.28,"text":"他就是辦公股"},{"start":9072.28,"end":9073.28,"text":"在基層員工要不要改"},{"start":9073.28,"end":9075.28,"text":"基層員工我覺得不應該改"},{"start":9076.28,"end":9077.28,"text":"基層員工"},{"start":9077.28,"end":9079.28,"text":"那就你們去想"},{"start":9079.28,"end":9082.28,"text":"所以這個財政部長"},{"start":9082.28,"end":9083.28,"text":"你那麼支持"},{"start":9084.28,"end":9088.28,"text":"支持陳嘉他們去拿了國票金的副董事長"},{"start":9088.28,"end":9089.28,"text":"這裡面很多都"},{"start":9089.28,"end":9090.28,"text":"你要去承擔"},{"start":9091.28,"end":9092.28,"text":"第三個"},{"start":9092.28,"end":9096.28,"text":"等一下請本主委跟我們解釋一下"},{"start":9096.28,"end":9097.28,"text":"外界關心的"},{"start":9098.28,"end":9102.28,"text":"現在等於是產金分離的概念"},{"start":9102.28,"end":9103.28,"text":"因為"},{"start":9104.28,"end":9109.28,"text":"國票金的副董事長是陳某某"},{"start":9109.28,"end":9110.28,"text":"就他弟弟"},{"start":9110.28,"end":9112.28,"text":"本身又是產業界的董事長"},{"start":9112.28,"end":9114.28,"text":"然後他又是國票政"},{"start":9115.28,"end":9116.28,"text":"要副董事長"},{"start":9116.28,"end":9118.28,"text":"這個有沒有產金分離的問題"},{"start":9119.28,"end":9120.28,"text":"要是那我不知道"},{"start":9120.28,"end":9121.28,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":9122.28,"end":9125.28,"text":"外界有這樣的一個擔憂好不好"},{"start":9125.28,"end":9128.28,"text":"這請問提問先起財政部的亞中部長請"},{"start":9138.28,"end":9142.28,"text":"主席各位專家學者先進還有各位委員"},{"start":9142.28,"end":9146.28,"text":"以及我們在座的公股金融事業的董總們"},{"start":9146.28,"end":9147.28,"text":"還有媒體朋友"},{"start":9147.28,"end":9151.28,"text":"以及我們所有的行政部門的同仁們大家好"},{"start":9151.28,"end":9154.28,"text":"今天貴委員會舉辦有關"},{"start":9154.28,"end":9157.28,"text":"如何擬定泛公股合併的短中程策略"},{"start":9157.28,"end":9159.28,"text":"還有實施計畫的公聽會"},{"start":9159.28,"end":9161.28,"text":"本部誠邀列席"},{"start":9161.28,"end":9163.28,"text":"我就做簡要的說明如下"},{"start":9163.28,"end":9168.28,"text":"第一個公股金融機構整併的原則以及政策的立場"},{"start":9168.28,"end":9171.28,"text":"面對國際金融環境快速的變化"},{"start":9171.28,"end":9174.28,"text":"還有國內金融市場激烈競爭"},{"start":9174.28,"end":9179.28,"text":"本部積極督導我們公股金融機構提升經營績效"},{"start":9179.28,"end":9183.28,"text":"強化治理效能還有發揮政策性的功能"},{"start":9183.28,"end":9186.28,"text":"我們要兼顧營運的效益還有公共利益"},{"start":9186.28,"end":9189.28,"text":"對於公股金融機構整併的議題"},{"start":9189.28,"end":9192.28,"text":"本部秉持尊重市場機制"},{"start":9192.28,"end":9196.28,"text":"利害關係人合意以及忠孝優先的原則"},{"start":9196.28,"end":9199.28,"text":"並且在維持公股金融主導權"},{"start":9199.28,"end":9203.28,"text":"以及確保政策性任務不受影響的前提之下"},{"start":9203.28,"end":9209.28,"text":"我們視個案經營的條件市場環境股權結構以及整體效益"},{"start":9209.28,"end":9212.28,"text":"評估整併的可行性"},{"start":9212.28,"end":9216.28,"text":"依法循序推動相關的規劃"},{"start":9216.28,"end":9221.28,"text":"以提升公股金融機構整體競爭力及永續發展的能力"},{"start":9221.28,"end":9227.28,"text":"第二個公股金融機構整併必須要能夠發揮業務復補的忠孝"},{"start":9227.28,"end":9230.28,"text":"為了確保整併發揮實質的忠孝"},{"start":9230.28,"end":9236.28,"text":"政府的忠孝公股金融機構應該就維持公股經營的主導權"},{"start":9236.28,"end":9243.28,"text":"經營規模經濟、業務的復補性、資本適足性、風險的承擔能力"},{"start":9243.28,"end":9252.28,"text":"市場競爭、資訊系統的整合、人力資源的配置、內部控制以及公共利益等面向"},{"start":9252.28,"end":9254.28,"text":"進行完整的評估"},{"start":9254.28,"end":9257.28,"text":"並且以強化長期經營忠孝"},{"start":9257.28,"end":9259.28,"text":"維持金融市場穩定為目標"},{"start":9259.28,"end":9263.28,"text":"而且必須符合各事業長期發展的策略"},{"start":9263.28,"end":9269.28,"text":"第三個,與工會建立完整的溝通機制,妥善保障員工權益"},{"start":9269.28,"end":9271.28,"text":"第一個,在整併過程當中"},{"start":9271.28,"end":9275.28,"text":"公股金融機構應該要秉持勞資合作的精神"},{"start":9275.28,"end":9279.28,"text":"主動和工會協商建立溝通機制"},{"start":9279.28,"end":9282.28,"text":"事實說明整併的目的、規劃進度"},{"start":9282.28,"end":9284.28,"text":"以及對員工的影響"},{"start":9284.28,"end":9286.28,"text":"我們要廣納工會的意見"},{"start":9286.28,"end":9289.28,"text":"並且妥為回應,降低資訊的落差"},{"start":9289.28,"end":9292.28,"text":"化解員工疑慮,來凝聚共識"},{"start":9292.28,"end":9294.28,"text":"減少整併的阻力"},{"start":9294.28,"end":9296.28,"text":"第二,我們要依循企業併購法"},{"start":9296.28,"end":9298.28,"text":"以及相關勞動法規"},{"start":9298.28,"end":9302.28,"text":"確保員工年資還有其他勞動的條件"},{"start":9302.28,"end":9304.28,"text":"在整併期間不受影響"},{"start":9304.28,"end":9307.28,"text":"整併前,應該就員工權益處理事項"},{"start":9307.28,"end":9309.28,"text":"提具安置計畫"},{"start":9309.28,"end":9311.28,"text":"針對留任以及不願意留任的員工"},{"start":9311.28,"end":9315.28,"text":"我們要分別規劃職能轉型培訓"},{"start":9315.28,"end":9318.28,"text":"專長的謀和或者合理的優退方案"},{"start":9318.28,"end":9320.28,"text":"以妥善保障員工權益"},{"start":9320.28,"end":9323.28,"text":"以及降低人才流失的風險"},{"start":9323.28,"end":9325.28,"text":"第四個,我們要兼顧資本穩健"},{"start":9325.28,"end":9329.28,"text":"交易公平性還有股東權益的衡評"},{"start":9330.28,"end":9332.28,"text":"整併有助,擴大經營規模"},{"start":9332.28,"end":9336.28,"text":"提升資源運用的效率以及風險承受能力"},{"start":9336.28,"end":9340.28,"text":"但是,仍然應該以維持公股金融機構"},{"start":9340.28,"end":9342.28,"text":"健全的資本結構"},{"start":9342.28,"end":9344.28,"text":"以及良好的財務體制"},{"start":9344.28,"end":9346.28,"text":"作為評估的前提"},{"start":9346.28,"end":9349.28,"text":"審慎的檢視財務指標變化情形"},{"start":9349.28,"end":9351.28,"text":"以及資本需求的規劃"},{"start":9351.28,"end":9353.28,"text":"以因應未來業務發展"},{"start":9353.28,"end":9355.28,"text":"以及承擔風險能力"},{"start":9355.28,"end":9358.28,"text":"確保我們符合相關監理的規範"},{"start":9358.28,"end":9361.28,"text":"並且要具備穩健經營基礎"},{"start":9361.28,"end":9363.28,"text":"與永續發展的能力"},{"start":9363.28,"end":9366.28,"text":"第二個,要妥善評估整併的成本"},{"start":9366.28,"end":9368.28,"text":"資產的重估"},{"start":9368.28,"end":9369.28,"text":"併購資金的來源"},{"start":9369.28,"end":9371.28,"text":"以及股權轉換的機制"},{"start":9371.28,"end":9374.28,"text":"並且要依法違請具有公信力的"},{"start":9374.28,"end":9376.28,"text":"獨立專業機構"},{"start":9376.28,"end":9378.28,"text":"就雙方的資產品質"},{"start":9378.28,"end":9380.28,"text":"潛在的負債"},{"start":9380.28,"end":9383.28,"text":"以及股權價值進行公允評價"},{"start":9383.28,"end":9387.28,"text":"審慎訂定合理的換股比例或收購對價"},{"start":9387.28,"end":9390.28,"text":"以確保交易公平的合理"},{"start":9390.28,"end":9392.28,"text":"維護公股及資產價值"},{"start":9392.28,"end":9394.28,"text":"還有全體股東權益"},{"start":9394.28,"end":9397.28,"text":"避免損及公股以及小股東的權益"},{"start":9397.28,"end":9401.28,"text":"最後,我們要謝謝今天立法院的財委會"},{"start":9401.28,"end":9404.28,"text":"召開我們這個主題的公聽會"},{"start":9404.28,"end":9409.28,"text":"我們也聆聽了各位學者專家精闢的意見還有建議"},{"start":9409.28,"end":9413.28,"text":"以及我們的公會代表們的看法"},{"start":9413.28,"end":9417.28,"text":"那麼都會是我們在督導公股金融事業"},{"start":9417.28,"end":9421.28,"text":"在研議規劃推動公工病的時候"},{"start":9421.28,"end":9424.28,"text":"要納入考量的重要因素"},{"start":9424.28,"end":9428.28,"text":"讓公工病能夠真正的發揮整病的效益"},{"start":9428.28,"end":9432.28,"text":"提升公股金融機構的競爭力"},{"start":9432.28,"end":9436.28,"text":"至於剛剛我們主席所提示的"},{"start":9436.28,"end":9439.28,"text":"要在做相關的部分的一些回應的部分"},{"start":9439.28,"end":9444.28,"text":"有關台土書我們的國營金融事業的福利的待遇的部分"},{"start":9444.28,"end":9447.28,"text":"首先就生育的補助的部分"},{"start":9447.28,"end":9452.28,"text":"目前已是全面提升到生一個孩子十萬元"},{"start":9452.28,"end":9455.28,"text":"如果原來的補助不足十萬元"},{"start":9455.28,"end":9458.28,"text":"那會補足到十萬元這是一致性的"},{"start":9458.28,"end":9461.28,"text":"而且是全國一致是十萬元生育"},{"start":9461.28,"end":9464.28,"text":"那另外再有相關的福利待遇的部分"},{"start":9464.28,"end":9468.28,"text":"等一下等一下補助十萬是除了幾年"},{"start":9468.28,"end":9471.28,"text":"是五年內生的還是三年內生的都可以"},{"start":9471.28,"end":9476.28,"text":"第一個是他本身銀行的一個相關的保險的補助"},{"start":9476.28,"end":9480.28,"text":"然後另外不足的部分是由我們衛福部這邊"},{"start":9480.28,"end":9483.28,"text":"有關人口對策裡面本來就有這個項目"},{"start":9483.28,"end":9486.28,"text":"是提都補足到十萬元"},{"start":9486.28,"end":9491.28,"text":"我想這個部分我想各個我們的同仁們應該都知道"},{"start":9491.28,"end":9494.28,"text":"那另外在於相關福利的部分"},{"start":9494.28,"end":9499.28,"text":"之前我們也彙整了我們國營的金融事業的相關的需求"},{"start":9499.28,"end":9501.28,"text":"我們也提報到行政院"},{"start":9501.28,"end":9505.28,"text":"我想這個部分院裡面也都會很重視的在做研議的"},{"start":9505.28,"end":9508.28,"text":"那至於待遇的部分因為涉及到他是國營事業"},{"start":9508.28,"end":9510.28,"text":"國營事業不管是在國營事業管理法"},{"start":9510.28,"end":9513.28,"text":"最近有一些討論的修正討論的時候"},{"start":9513.28,"end":9516.28,"text":"財政部也提出了相關的一些建議"},{"start":9516.28,"end":9522.28,"text":"我們希望我們的公股金融事業能夠有一些不同的一些規定"},{"start":9522.28,"end":9526.28,"text":"那我們也目前來說也提出我們財政部的一些看法"},{"start":9526.28,"end":9532.28,"text":"所以在提高我們的國營金融事業的一個待遇跟福利的部分"},{"start":9532.28,"end":9536.28,"text":"財政部基本上是持的一個支持的一個態度"},{"start":9536.28,"end":9539.28,"text":"我想謝謝委員這方面的關心以及推動"},{"start":9539.28,"end":9545.28,"text":"那至於有關您剛剛提到的國票金的薪酬的部分"},{"start":9545.28,"end":9548.28,"text":"那剛剛我們張董事長也提到了這個部分"},{"start":9548.28,"end":9553.28,"text":"他們會進行有關董總副董的薪酬的一些檢討"},{"start":9553.28,"end":9556.28,"text":"那對於薪酬的檢討在公司裡面有它一定的制度"},{"start":9556.28,"end":9559.28,"text":"它必須有薪酬委員會來做討論"},{"start":9559.28,"end":9561.28,"text":"然後再送他們的董事會"},{"start":9561.28,"end":9565.28,"text":"那這個部分應該在他們的國票金裡面"},{"start":9565.28,"end":9568.28,"text":"已經開始在做相關的一些檢討的一些作業"},{"start":9568.28,"end":9570.28,"text":"這以上我的一個說明"},{"start":9570.28,"end":9571.28,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":9571.28,"end":9574.28,"text":"等一下等一下"},{"start":9574.28,"end":9577.28,"text":"我仔細讀了你的結語"},{"start":9577.28,"end":9582.28,"text":"你看本部對於公股金融機構的整並"},{"start":9582.28,"end":9586.28,"text":"維持公股經營主導權的前提下"},{"start":9586.28,"end":9588.28,"text":"持開放態度"},{"start":9588.28,"end":9592.28,"text":"積極鼓勵公股金融機構等等等等"},{"start":9592.28,"end":9595.28,"text":"你這個話的意思是你目前沒有看法"},{"start":9595.28,"end":9598.28,"text":"就是說open to everybody"},{"start":9598.28,"end":9601.28,"text":"open to anything that could be happen"},{"start":9601.28,"end":9604.28,"text":"就是你說公共病你自己來"},{"start":9604.28,"end":9606.28,"text":"財政部沒有立場"},{"start":9606.28,"end":9607.28,"text":"是這樣子嗎"},{"start":9607.28,"end":9609.28,"text":"沒有看法沒有想法"},{"start":9609.28,"end":9610.28,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":9610.28,"end":9613.28,"text":"我們的看法跟我們的立場在我們報告裡面講得很清楚"},{"start":9613.28,"end":9616.28,"text":"你結語寫得很清楚"},{"start":9616.28,"end":9618.28,"text":"我結語是這樣寫"},{"start":9618.28,"end":9621.28,"text":"但我相信在這樣的原則之下來"},{"start":9621.28,"end":9623.28,"text":"做相關的研議跟推動跟督導"},{"start":9623.28,"end":9625.28,"text":"我想這個部分"},{"start":9625.28,"end":9628.28,"text":"也就是剛剛也大家董事長也提到"},{"start":9628.28,"end":9632.28,"text":"這個部分我們必須要在剛剛我們所提的政策"},{"start":9632.28,"end":9635.28,"text":"跟原則的前提之下去做評估的"},{"start":9635.28,"end":9638.28,"text":"這個這個好吧你這樣講"},{"start":9638.28,"end":9641.28,"text":"那就真的要解決高度質疑"},{"start":9641.28,"end":9644.28,"text":"那你為什麼要將近一百億去"},{"start":9644.28,"end":9647.28,"text":"要去把這個國標金吃進來"},{"start":9647.28,"end":9648.28,"text":"根本就不需要吃"},{"start":9648.28,"end":9651.28,"text":"你這是開放的你目前沒有想法"},{"start":9651.28,"end":9653.28,"text":"你說我已經想法了"},{"start":9653.28,"end":9657.28,"text":"但是我不能公佈國標金要跟哪一家公佈"},{"start":9657.28,"end":9658.28,"text":"何必有想法"},{"start":9658.28,"end":9659.28,"text":"那就不一樣"},{"start":9659.28,"end":9661.28,"text":"那我就覺得說我尊敬你"},{"start":9661.28,"end":9662.28,"text":"可是你現在目前沒有"},{"start":9662.28,"end":9664.28,"text":"就一副就不知道怎麼辦"},{"start":9664.28,"end":9667.28,"text":"然後你看開放開度你自己來"},{"start":9667.28,"end":9669.28,"text":"你們自己自己看"},{"start":9669.28,"end":9670.28,"text":"你們要病就去病"},{"start":9670.28,"end":9671.28,"text":"跟我沒有關係"},{"start":9671.28,"end":9672.28,"text":"一副這個樣子"},{"start":9672.28,"end":9673.28,"text":"一副這個樣子"},{"start":9673.28,"end":9674.28,"text":"我們沒有這樣"},{"start":9674.28,"end":9675.28,"text":"我們並不是這樣的一個"},{"start":9675.28,"end":9677.28,"text":"我看你前面就這樣子"},{"start":9677.28,"end":9679.28,"text":"我們不是這樣的一個想法"},{"start":9679.28,"end":9680.28,"text":"是寫錯了"},{"start":9680.28,"end":9682.28,"text":"不是寫錯了"},{"start":9683.28,"end":9684.28,"text":"這個我看你"},{"start":9684.28,"end":9686.28,"text":"你剛才直接高度解決"},{"start":9686.28,"end":9689.28,"text":"我想委員剛剛我也提到了就是說"},{"start":9689.28,"end":9694.28,"text":"我們謝謝今天台委會召開這樣的一個公聽會"},{"start":9694.28,"end":9695.28,"text":"那我們也聽了許多"},{"start":9695.28,"end":9697.28,"text":"我們在座的各位專家學者"},{"start":9697.28,"end":9699.28,"text":"精闢的意見跟建議"},{"start":9699.28,"end":9701.28,"text":"那麼後續我們在督導的時候"},{"start":9701.28,"end":9703.28,"text":"都會把那些建議跟參考"},{"start":9703.28,"end":9704.28,"text":"所以委員不要"},{"start":9704.28,"end":9706.28,"text":"謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":9706.28,"end":9710.28,"text":"因為我們在相關的部分"},{"start":9710.28,"end":9712.28,"text":"持開放態度"},{"start":9712.28,"end":9716.28,"text":"然後鼓勵公共金融機構"},{"start":9716.28,"end":9718.28,"text":"自己評估推動"},{"start":9718.28,"end":9719.28,"text":"就你都沒"},{"start":9719.28,"end":9721.28,"text":"你是路人節啊"},{"start":9721.28,"end":9722.28,"text":"別這樣子啊"},{"start":9722.28,"end":9723.28,"text":"這個這個結語"},{"start":9723.28,"end":9726.28,"text":"你們你要找誰幫你寫結語的"},{"start":9726.28,"end":9728.28,"text":"結語這樣寫看不"},{"start":9728.28,"end":9729.28,"text":"完全沒有概念"},{"start":9729.28,"end":9732.28,"text":"這個這個前面寫得還不錯"},{"start":9732.28,"end":9734.28,"text":"後面結語一下你寫了"},{"start":9734.28,"end":9735.28,"text":"你去去"},{"start":9735.28,"end":9737.28,"text":"好不好這個努力一下"},{"start":9737.28,"end":9739.28,"text":"讓我們台讀書"},{"start":9739.28,"end":9741.28,"text":"比照泛光圖"},{"start":9741.28,"end":9744.28,"text":"這個需要我們來修法"},{"start":9744.28,"end":9745.28,"text":"我們都可以修法"},{"start":9745.28,"end":9746.28,"text":"國語是有國語法"},{"start":9746.28,"end":9748.28,"text":"當然他有相關的制度跟法規"},{"start":9748.28,"end":9749.28,"text":"我相信"},{"start":9749.28,"end":9751.28,"text":"感謝委員的支持"},{"start":9751.28,"end":9752.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9752.28,"end":9753.28,"text":"我們支持"},{"start":9753.28,"end":9754.28,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":9754.28,"end":9757.28,"text":"是不是最後我們請金管會的彭主委"},{"start":9757.28,"end":9760.28,"text":"從監理制度來看這個"},{"start":9766.28,"end":9767.28,"text":"主席各位先進"},{"start":9767.28,"end":9769.28,"text":"各位媒體朋友大家早"},{"start":9769.28,"end":9772.28,"text":"我想有關金融診病"},{"start":9772.28,"end":9777.28,"text":"主要是由金融機構依循公司治理程序來決定"},{"start":9777.28,"end":9781.28,"text":"並且依照規定向金管會申請核准或辦理"},{"start":9781.28,"end":9783.28,"text":"我想金管會的角色"},{"start":9783.28,"end":9789.28,"text":"在於建立明確的併購法制及營造友善的併購環境"},{"start":9789.28,"end":9791.28,"text":"現行的金融機構合併法"},{"start":9791.28,"end":9792.28,"text":"金融控股公司法"},{"start":9792.28,"end":9794.28,"text":"以及企業併購法等相關法令"},{"start":9794.28,"end":9798.28,"text":"已經提供了金融診病完備的法制基礎"},{"start":9798.28,"end":9802.28,"text":"並沒有因為股東身份而有區別"},{"start":9802.28,"end":9803.28,"text":"我想對於金融機構"},{"start":9803.28,"end":9806.28,"text":"基於業務發展需要進行之診病"},{"start":9806.28,"end":9810.28,"text":"再依照市場機制遵循法令規定"},{"start":9810.28,"end":9814.28,"text":"符合社會利益與財務業務健全等原則下"},{"start":9814.28,"end":9816.28,"text":"金管會都會予以尊重"},{"start":9816.28,"end":9820.28,"text":"然後也會依照相關規定謹慎的審查"},{"start":9820.28,"end":9825.28,"text":"我想依照金融機構合併法以及相關規定"},{"start":9825.28,"end":9827.28,"text":"金融機構向主管機關申請合併的時候"},{"start":9827.28,"end":9832.28,"text":"本來就應該提具受僱人權益處理等重要的說明事項"},{"start":9832.28,"end":9836.28,"text":"金管會會將就員工權益保障事項納入審酌"},{"start":9836.28,"end":9840.28,"text":"並督導金融機構確實依照勞動基準法令辦理"},{"start":9840.28,"end":9844.28,"text":"我想未來對於金融機構的診病案件"},{"start":9844.28,"end":9848.28,"text":"金管會會秉持這個職責本於監理的職責"},{"start":9848.28,"end":9851.28,"text":"依法審慎處理以促進金融市場的健全發展"},{"start":9851.28,"end":9854.28,"text":"敬請各位指教"},{"start":9854.28,"end":9857.28,"text":"我想剛才有關主席提到的這個問題呢"},{"start":9857.28,"end":9858.28,"text":"我想今天是公聽會"},{"start":9858.28,"end":9862.28,"text":"我想再提書面的方式跟主席說明"},{"start":9862.28,"end":9863.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9864.28,"end":9865.28,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":9865.28,"end":9870.28,"text":"我們還有一位相關的部會公評會"},{"start":9870.28,"end":9873.28,"text":"要不要回應一下公評會"},{"start":9873.28,"end":9875.28,"text":"簡單講幾句好不好"},{"start":9887.28,"end":9889.28,"text":"主席各位與會先進大家好"},{"start":9889.28,"end":9890.28,"text":"大家好"},{"start":9890.28,"end":9893.28,"text":"那公評會針對今天討論的議題"},{"start":9893.28,"end":9895.28,"text":"我們做一個簡單的報告"},{"start":9895.28,"end":9899.28,"text":"那有關金融機構在合併的這個相關的議題"},{"start":9899.28,"end":9902.28,"text":"主要是涉及到我們結合的管制"},{"start":9902.28,"end":9905.28,"text":"那公平交易法針對結合管制"},{"start":9905.28,"end":9907.28,"text":"在第十一條第1項有規定"},{"start":9907.28,"end":9909.28,"text":"就是參與結合事業"},{"start":9909.28,"end":9911.28,"text":"他的市占率或者是銷售金額"},{"start":9911.28,"end":9913.28,"text":"達到一定門檻的時候"},{"start":9913.28,"end":9917.28,"text":"就必須在結合之前向公評會申報結合"},{"start":9917.28,"end":9920.28,"text":"那在銷售金額的部分"},{"start":9920.28,"end":9922.28,"text":"今年我們公評會所公告的"},{"start":9922.28,"end":9925.28,"text":"金融機構的銷售金額是指"},{"start":9927.28,"end":9931.28,"text":"上一會計年度銷售金額達到超過400億元"},{"start":9931.28,"end":9933.28,"text":"以及另外一個結合的金融機構"},{"start":9933.28,"end":9935.28,"text":"超過30億元的時候"},{"start":9935.28,"end":9937.28,"text":"達到這個結合門檻的時候"},{"start":9937.28,"end":9939.28,"text":"就應該向公評會來申報"},{"start":9939.28,"end":9943.28,"text":"那在金融機構向本會申報之後"},{"start":9943.28,"end":9946.28,"text":"那我們的結合的案件的處理"},{"start":9946.28,"end":9950.28,"text":"原則上是依照本會所訂的結合案件的處理原則"},{"start":9950.28,"end":9953.28,"text":"所列的評估因素進行審查"},{"start":9953.28,"end":9956.28,"text":"那因為我們會考慮到金融產業的一些特殊性"},{"start":9956.28,"end":9960.28,"text":"所以本會在審查金融機構在結合的時候"},{"start":9960.28,"end":9964.28,"text":"都會充分的徵詢目的事業主管機關"},{"start":9964.28,"end":9967.28,"text":"也就是金管會的相關的意見"},{"start":9967.28,"end":9969.28,"text":"那我們針對於金融"},{"start":9969.28,"end":9971.28,"text":"我們除了徵詢主管機關意見之外"},{"start":9971.28,"end":9974.28,"text":"我們也會考量到金融產業的"},{"start":9974.28,"end":9976.28,"text":"金融穩定性健全性"},{"start":9976.28,"end":9979.28,"text":"以及金融服務普及性進變性"},{"start":9979.28,"end":9981.28,"text":"以及金融服務創新的面向的影響"},{"start":9981.28,"end":9983.28,"text":"我們整體評估之後"},{"start":9983.28,"end":9986.28,"text":"我們再會依照公評教育法所規定的"},{"start":9986.28,"end":9988.28,"text":"結合的整體的經濟利益"},{"start":9988.28,"end":9991.28,"text":"有沒有大於限制競爭的不利益"},{"start":9991.28,"end":9993.28,"text":"來做一個準薄的規定"},{"start":9993.28,"end":9995.28,"text":"那以上是我們簡報的報告謝謝"},{"start":9997.28,"end":10003.28,"text":"好謝謝這個公務會的長官給我們的回應"},{"start":10003.28,"end":10008.28,"text":"現在有關於行政機關都已經做回應了"},{"start":10008.28,"end":10010.28,"text":"請問現場的專家學者"},{"start":10010.28,"end":10013.28,"text":"有沒有要第二次發言的"},{"start":10014.28,"end":10016.28,"text":"好沒有的話"},{"start":10016.28,"end":10020.28,"text":"那我這裡就做一個結論"},{"start":10020.28,"end":10021.28,"text":"做一個結論"},{"start":10021.28,"end":10027.28,"text":"那麼今天其實是依據立法院直覺行事法58條"},{"start":10027.28,"end":10032.28,"text":"委員會應該在公聽會總結後10天內"},{"start":10032.28,"end":10035.28,"text":"依出席者所提供的正反意見"},{"start":10035.28,"end":10037.28,"text":"提出公聽會的報告"},{"start":10037.28,"end":10041.28,"text":"並送交本院權力委員區出席者"},{"start":10041.28,"end":10047.28,"text":"所以我們會把今天與會者所有的這個專家學者"},{"start":10047.28,"end":10050.28,"text":"寶貴的發言意見做為未來宣傳的參考"},{"start":10050.28,"end":10055.28,"text":"並會邊陳冊送交本院權力委員"},{"start":10055.28,"end":10059.28,"text":"及今日出立席的提供建議的貴賓參閱"},{"start":10059.28,"end":10062.28,"text":"如果各位貴賓還有其他意見"},{"start":10062.28,"end":10067.28,"text":"歡迎提供給我們我們並入這次的公聽會的報告"},{"start":10067.28,"end":10072.28,"text":"那麼最後結束之前我還是再次的講兩句"},{"start":10072.28,"end":10075.28,"text":"第一個就是今天談的公共病"},{"start":10075.28,"end":10078.28,"text":"大家知道台灣台灣這麼小一個地方"},{"start":10078.28,"end":10082.28,"text":"其實是大家都了解是over banking"},{"start":10082.28,"end":10085.28,"text":"over 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