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依照聯合國原住民族權利宣言及我國憲法徵修條文"},{"start":1584.09,"end":1588.09,"text":"原住民族有權建立及掌管自己教育體系及機構"},{"start":1588.09,"end":1590.09,"text":"那麼依民族意願"},{"start":1590.09,"end":1592.09,"text":"保障原住民族教育權利"},{"start":1592.09,"end":1596.09,"text":"彰顯原住民族自治自主跟自決"},{"start":1596.09,"end":1598.09,"text":"第二"},{"start":1598.09,"end":1602.09,"text":"為足部建立完整的原住民族教育體制"},{"start":1602.09,"end":1604.09,"text":"105年行政院以明確分工"},{"start":1604.09,"end":1608.09,"text":"由本部全面修正原住民族教育法"},{"start":1608.09,"end":1612.09,"text":"並由原民會來研議制定原住民族學校法"},{"start":1612.09,"end":1616.09,"text":"那麼兩部會均以積極推動相關的工作"},{"start":1616.09,"end":1618.09,"text":"並經過多次的協調溝通"},{"start":1618.09,"end":1626.09,"text":"其中原住民族教育法已於108年6月19號完成全條文修正公佈"},{"start":1628.05,"end":1630.05,"text":"第二相關的建議方面"},{"start":1630.05,"end":1633.05,"text":"為了健全原住民族教育體系"},{"start":1633.05,"end":1636.05,"text":"本部持續配合原民會的規劃"},{"start":1636.05,"end":1639.05,"text":"那麼就法規制度課程"},{"start":1639.05,"end":1641.05,"text":"施資培育等面向"},{"start":1641.05,"end":1643.05,"text":"共同來推動原住民族學校"},{"start":1643.05,"end":1646.05,"text":"完備原住民族的教育體系"},{"start":1646.05,"end":1649.05,"text":"與原民會攜手促進族群教育的自主性"},{"start":1649.05,"end":1655.05,"text":"那麼緊就各委員提出的原住民族學校法草案的版本"},{"start":1655.54,"end":1657.54,"text":"就相關的重點說明如下"},{"start":1657.54,"end":1659.54,"text":"一、各委員"},{"start":1660.24,"end":1663.24,"text":"各委員版草案所提的立法意旨"},{"start":1663.24,"end":1665.24,"text":"本部敬表尊重"},{"start":1665.24,"end":1667.24,"text":"那包含維護民族尊嚴"},{"start":1667.24,"end":1669.24,"text":"延續民族命脈"},{"start":1669.24,"end":1671.24,"text":"促進原住民族教育多元發展"},{"start":1671.24,"end":1675.24,"text":"推動原住民族人才培育與教育自主治理"},{"start":1675.24,"end":1677.24,"text":"保障原住民族教育自主權"},{"start":1677.24,"end":1680.24,"text":"受教權以及教育選擇權"},{"start":1680.24,"end":1685.24,"text":"保障原住民族語言之學習與使用"},{"start":1685.24,"end":1690.24,"text":"若促進其文化及知識體系之傳承、創新與發展"},{"start":1690.24,"end":1693.24,"text":"培育及聚集民族文化素養"},{"start":1693.24,"end":1697.24,"text":"及適應現代社會與未來發展能力之人才"},{"start":1697.24,"end":1699.24,"text":"促進民族永續發展等"},{"start":1699.24,"end":1701.24,"text":"強調依民主意願"},{"start":1702.2,"end":1705.2,"text":"保障原住民族教育權利"},{"start":1705.2,"end":1709.2,"text":"由原住民族決定自己的教育、目標及治理方式等"},{"start":1709.2,"end":1712.2,"text":"那麼原住民族主體性為重中之重"},{"start":1713.27,"end":1713.77,"text":"那麼第二"},{"start":1715.83,"end":1718.83,"text":"我們認為應該由這個原民會來擔任主政機關"},{"start":1718.83,"end":1721.83,"text":"來回應原住民族主體性的精神"},{"start":1721.83,"end":1723.83,"text":"並立事權統一"},{"start":1723.83,"end":1725.83,"text":"那麼部分委員版的草案"},{"start":1725.83,"end":1727.83,"text":"以本部為主管機關"},{"start":1727.83,"end":1729.83,"text":"原民會為主辦機關"},{"start":1729.83,"end":1732.83,"text":"唯一原教法第三條及第五條"},{"start":1734.02,"end":1736.02,"text":"到第五條的規定"},{"start":1736.02,"end":1740.02,"text":"民族教育已規範由原住民族主管機關規劃辦理"},{"start":1740.02,"end":1744.02,"text":"且原住民族學校是以原住民族知識體系為主"},{"start":1744.02,"end":1749.02,"text":"依該民族教育哲學與目標實施教育之學校"},{"start":1749.02,"end":1753.02,"text":"而原住民族知識體系依規定"},{"start":1753.02,"end":1757.02,"text":"亦由原民會、會商、教育、科技、文化等主管機關"},{"start":1757.02,"end":1760.02,"text":"共同建構原住民族知識體系中"},{"start":1761.82,"end":1762.82,"text":"中長程計畫"},{"start":1762.82,"end":1764.82,"text":"那麼依法規權責的歸屬呢"},{"start":1764.82,"end":1767.82,"text":"同時回應各委員草案版本"},{"start":1767.82,"end":1771.82,"text":"推動教育自主、自理之原住民族主體性精神"},{"start":1771.82,"end":1774.82,"text":"以統一由原民會來擔任主政機關"},{"start":1774.82,"end":1776.82,"text":"以利完善政策機制"},{"start":1776.82,"end":1778.82,"text":"並有利於未來執行"},{"start":1778.82,"end":1785.82,"text":"最後呢原住民族學校法是各界相關相當關注的法案"},{"start":1785.82,"end":1787.82,"text":"肯認原住民族主體性精神"},{"start":1787.82,"end":1791.82,"text":"並落實原住民族教育自主、自理"},{"start":1791.82,"end":1794.82,"text":"是為本項立法之首要關懷"},{"start":1794.82,"end":1798.82,"text":"本部將持續與原民會合作"},{"start":1798.82,"end":1800.82,"text":"共同維護原住民族教育權"},{"start":1800.82,"end":1804.82,"text":"完善原住民族教育體系之制度連結與發展條件"},{"start":1804.82,"end":1807.82,"text":"以促進原住民族教育之穩健推展"},{"start":1807.82,"end":1809.82,"text":"那麼以上報告"},{"start":1809.82,"end":1810.82,"text":"進行各位委員不吝指教"},{"start":1810.82,"end":1811.82,"text":"謝謝各位"},{"start":1812.91,"end":1815.91,"text":"好謝謝張廖完間次長的報告"},{"start":1815.91,"end":1818.91,"text":"接下來我們有請原住民族委員會"},{"start":1818.91,"end":1820.91,"text":"杜張梅莊副主任委員報告"},{"start":1820.91,"end":1822.91,"text":"時間是五分鐘"},{"start":1829.16,"end":1832.16,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生"},{"start":1832.16,"end":1838.16,"text":"本會今天受邀列席第十一屆第五會期教育文化內政委員會"},{"start":1838.16,"end":1840.16,"text":"第一次聯席會議深感榮幸"},{"start":1840.16,"end":1843.16,"text":"以下就原住民族教育政策發展的歷程"},{"start":1843.16,"end":1847.16,"text":"民族學校設立策略以未來願景分別說明如下"},{"start":1847.71,"end":1850.71,"text":"以十一年重大原住民族教育的政策"},{"start":1850.71,"end":1854.71,"text":"本會自一百零二年起推動部落學校設立計畫"},{"start":1854.71,"end":1857.71,"text":"於課餘及寒暑假開設"},{"start":1858.69,"end":1860.69,"text":"本會進行文化課程"},{"start":1861.06,"end":1866.06,"text":"首度將文化學習系統化為教材與教學模式"},{"start":1866.06,"end":1868.06,"text":"為突破抽離式學習的限制"},{"start":1868.06,"end":1871.06,"text":"持續推動學校本位課程計畫"},{"start":1871.06,"end":1875.06,"text":"將部落知識融入校園日常課程"},{"start":1875.06,"end":1879.06,"text":"一百一十四懸念度並擴大為全民原教計畫"},{"start":1879.06,"end":1883.06,"text":"使傳統智慧逐步融入校園環境"},{"start":1883.06,"end":1887.06,"text":"另外教育部在一百零三年訂定了實驗教育三法"},{"start":1887.87,"end":1890.87,"text":"提供民族知識為主體制課程調整法源"},{"start":1890.87,"end":1894.87,"text":"本會也在一百零五年訂定補助的要點"},{"start":1894.87,"end":1897.87,"text":"規範各校每週至少八節文化課程"},{"start":1897.87,"end":1902.87,"text":"到一百一十四年已經累計補助四十六所學校辦理"},{"start":1903.56,"end":1906.56,"text":"整體而言本會推動歷程可分為三個階段"},{"start":1906.56,"end":1912.56,"text":"由課外的體驗系統化到正式課程的校本化"},{"start":1912.56,"end":1915.56,"text":"到再邁向實驗教育的法制化"},{"start":1915.56,"end":1918.56,"text":"第二是設立原住民學校的理想策略"},{"start":1918.56,"end":1921.56,"text":"為兼顧教育公平與財政永續"},{"start":1921.56,"end":1924.56,"text":"本會認為推動原住民學校的核心策略"},{"start":1924.56,"end":1929.56,"text":"以既有公立學校轉型公辦民營為主軸"},{"start":1930.43,"end":1935.43,"text":"藉此免除興建校舍的巨額經費支出"},{"start":1935.43,"end":1937.43,"text":"並活化既有資源"},{"start":1937.43,"end":1940.43,"text":"使政策推動更增務實且具效力"},{"start":1940.43,"end":1943.43,"text":"以高雄市桃園區新中國小圍籬"},{"start":1943.43,"end":1945.43,"text":"本會與地方政府合作"},{"start":1945.43,"end":1948.43,"text":"依公立高級中等以下學校委託"},{"start":1948.43,"end":1951.43,"text":"私人辦理實驗教育條例"},{"start":1951.43,"end":1955.43,"text":"委託原住民族語言研究發展基金會經營"},{"start":1955.43,"end":1959.43,"text":"成功轉型為全台首座原住民族學校"},{"start":1959.43,"end":1962.43,"text":"應證此模式兼具文化傳承效益"},{"start":1962.43,"end":1965.43,"text":"與可複製可持續制度優勢"},{"start":1966.58,"end":1969.58,"text":"再推動的過程會因應具文化素養"},{"start":1969.58,"end":1972.58,"text":"及足以能力之實質培育需求"},{"start":1972.58,"end":1975.58,"text":"以確保教育現場能穩定的運作"},{"start":1975.58,"end":1978.58,"text":"本會建議透過文化導師協同教學"},{"start":1978.58,"end":1981.58,"text":"與在職真人機制"},{"start":1982.22,"end":1985.22,"text":"與納入文化職能至實質培育的標準"},{"start":1985.22,"end":1988.22,"text":"以確保教育現場不自斷層"},{"start":1988.95,"end":1990.95,"text":"至於財政資源的配置"},{"start":1990.95,"end":1992.95,"text":"有別於硬體建設支出"},{"start":1992.95,"end":1996.95,"text":"集中於教材研發與課程設計"},{"start":1996.95,"end":1998.95,"text":"以建立可藏"},{"start":1998.98,"end":2000.98,"text":"長期維運的治理體系"},{"start":2000.98,"end":2003.98,"text":"一三個是原住民族學校未來的願景"},{"start":2003.98,"end":2005.98,"text":"綜合以上前面的報告"},{"start":2005.98,"end":2007.98,"text":"未來本會將以心中"},{"start":2008.17,"end":2010.17,"text":"民族小學之設立經驗為基礎"},{"start":2010.17,"end":2012.17,"text":"深化中央與地方合作"},{"start":2012.17,"end":2015.17,"text":"逐步推動一組一民族學校"},{"start":2015.17,"end":2018.17,"text":"使原住民族均擁有專屬各民族學校"},{"start":2018.17,"end":2021.17,"text":"並建構幼兒園之高等教育"},{"start":2021.17,"end":2023.17,"text":"廣化之教育體系"},{"start":2023.8,"end":2027.8,"text":"培育兼具文化根基與現代競爭力之新時代人才"},{"start":2027.8,"end":2031.8,"text":"落實原住民族教育之文化永續與教育祖先"},{"start":2031.8,"end":2033.8,"text":"以上報告,敬請各位委員指教"},{"start":2033.8,"end":2035.8,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2036.86,"end":2040.86,"text":"好,謝謝督章副主委的報告"},{"start":2040.86,"end":2042.86,"text":"機關代表報告完畢"},{"start":2042.86,"end":2044.86,"text":"機關書面資料請各位參閱"},{"start":2044.86,"end":2046.86,"text":"並列入公報記錄"},{"start":2049.92,"end":2051.92,"text":"在進行詢答以前"},{"start":2051.92,"end":2053.92,"text":"主席這邊做一個說明"},{"start":2055.91,"end":2057.91,"text":"關於原住民族學校法"},{"start":2057.91,"end":2062.91,"text":"我們在8月19號有召開過公聽會"},{"start":2062.91,"end":2067.91,"text":"當時教育部跟原民會也都有做出書面報告"},{"start":2067.91,"end":2071.91,"text":"而且參與發言的學者專家有超過20人"},{"start":2071.91,"end":2075.91,"text":"所以認為立法有它的一個必要性"},{"start":2075.91,"end":2077.91,"text":"有高度共識"},{"start":2077.91,"end":2081.91,"text":"所以今天我們算是這一屆第一次"},{"start":2081.91,"end":2084.91,"text":"把原住民族學校法進入審查"},{"start":2084.91,"end":2087.91,"text":"今天我們就只安排詢答"},{"start":2087.91,"end":2091.91,"text":"在這裡我們就開始進行詢答"},{"start":2091.91,"end":2095.91,"text":"等一下每一位出席的委員質詢是6分鐘"},{"start":2095.91,"end":2099.91,"text":"獵襲的委員質詢時間是4分鐘"},{"start":2099.91,"end":2101.91,"text":"均不再延長"},{"start":2101.91,"end":2106.91,"text":"發言登記截止的時間是上午的10點30分"},{"start":2106.91,"end":2108.91,"text":"委員如果有臨時提案"},{"start":2108.91,"end":2111.91,"text":"請在10點30分以前提出"},{"start":2111.91,"end":2116.91,"text":"並在蔡春筹委員質詢完畢後再行處理"},{"start":2116.91,"end":2117.91,"text":"處理提案時"},{"start":2117.91,"end":2120.91,"text":"如果提案委員及聯署委員均不在場"},{"start":2120.91,"end":2123.91,"text":"原例我們不予處理"},{"start":2123.91,"end":2128.91,"text":"現在我們邀請第一位郭育勤委員進行詢答"},{"start":2136.66,"end":2138.66,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":2138.66,"end":2140.66,"text":"今天有請次長"},{"start":2141.25,"end":2142.25,"text":"請次長"},{"start":2143.05,"end":2144.05,"text":"有請次長"},{"start":2147.04,"end":2148.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":2148.04,"end":2149.04,"text":"好 次長早安"},{"start":2149.04,"end":2153.04,"text":"我想今天其實我們要討論的是原住民族的學校法"},{"start":2153.04,"end":2157.04,"text":"那過去其實我們的原住民族的教育"},{"start":2157.04,"end":2161.04,"text":"其實從過去以前的補充式的教育"},{"start":2161.04,"end":2165.04,"text":"現在已經走向所謂的文化主體性的方向"},{"start":2165.04,"end":2170.04,"text":"那我們也看到有不少的原住民族的實驗學校正在運作"},{"start":2170.04,"end":2174.04,"text":"那我們如果真的希望這個部落成為教育的本體"},{"start":2174.04,"end":2176.04,"text":"所以更應該要建立一套完整"},{"start":2176.04,"end":2182.04,"text":"而且有自主性的讓他可以在這個永續發展的一個教育的體系"},{"start":2182.04,"end":2187.04,"text":"那這個部分我想請教一下這個教育部這兩個核心的一個問題"},{"start":2187.04,"end":2188.04,"text":"我們的師資的部分"},{"start":2188.04,"end":2193.04,"text":"那麼第一我相信現在有很多的老師他有所謂的這個教師證"},{"start":2193.04,"end":2199.04,"text":"但是他不一定具備有足夠的所謂的這個民族文化的一個這樣子的一個教養的部分"},{"start":2199.04,"end":2204.04,"text":"那我想有沒有專門規劃培訓或者是認證的機制"},{"start":2204.04,"end":2207.04,"text":"讓老師不只只是會教"},{"start":2207.04,"end":2210.04,"text":"而且他是真正的懂原住民族的一個文化"},{"start":2210.04,"end":2211.04,"text":"這是第一個問題"},{"start":2211.04,"end":2214.04,"text":"第二個問題我的升學應該要怎麼銜接"},{"start":2214.04,"end":2219.04,"text":"在升學的時候其實我們大部分還是看傳統的這個學科的一個成績"},{"start":2219.04,"end":2222.04,"text":"那當然這個實驗教育的一個部分"},{"start":2222.04,"end":2224.04,"text":"那很多的家長可能就會問"},{"start":2224.04,"end":2227.04,"text":"如果既然要讓孩子選擇升學"},{"start":2227.04,"end":2230.04,"text":"那要看的是傳統的學科的成績"},{"start":2230.04,"end":2233.04,"text":"那接著下來我為什麼要選擇這樣子的一個教育"},{"start":2233.04,"end":2236.04,"text":"所以我們這個教育部是不是有跟這個原民會"},{"start":2236.04,"end":2240.04,"text":"或者是我們其他的一些大專院校有一起來共同的思考"},{"start":2240.04,"end":2247.04,"text":"怎麼樣來建立這個原住民族的一個教育特色的一個升學銜接的選材的一個機制"},{"start":2247.04,"end":2248.04,"text":"這個部分想請教"},{"start":2248.04,"end":2255.04,"text":"好我想第一個有關這個原住民族的這個那個相關的那個師資的問題"},{"start":2255.04,"end":2257.04,"text":"就是具有他的文化特色"},{"start":2257.04,"end":2258.04,"text":"那我們現在呢"},{"start":2258.04,"end":2260.04,"text":"有關那個失陪的部分"},{"start":2260.04,"end":2269.04,"text":"我們是透過次專長的這個師資的培育的方式來增加對原民文化的一個認識跟這個教學"},{"start":2269.04,"end":2275.04,"text":"那麼在115年度我們累積也核定了培育的學校有九所學校有16組"},{"start":2275.04,"end":2280.04,"text":"那取得這個次專長證書的也已經達到89位"},{"start":2280.04,"end":2283.04,"text":"那110年到115學員度呢"},{"start":2283.04,"end":2287.04,"text":"原住民的功費升也累積核定了406人"},{"start":2287.04,"end":2293.04,"text":"那114年度的失陪大學開設有關原住民族教育相關的議題課程"},{"start":2293.04,"end":2295.04,"text":"有43所學校"},{"start":2295.04,"end":2299.04,"text":"那休息過的人次也達到了13,643"},{"start":2299.04,"end":2302.04,"text":"那這部分我們會繼續跟原民會來合作"},{"start":2302.04,"end":2304.04,"text":"就辦理原住民族教育"},{"start":2304.04,"end":2307.04,"text":"師資休息原住民族文化及多元文化的教育課程"},{"start":2307.04,"end":2312.04,"text":"來讓輔導這個原住民族學校或是重點學校"},{"start":2312.04,"end":2315.04,"text":"或者是原住民教育專班的專任老師"},{"start":2315.04,"end":2317.04,"text":"族語教學資源工作人員"},{"start":2317.04,"end":2321.04,"text":"以及擔任六個月以上的代理代課及重點教師"},{"start":2321.04,"end":2325.04,"text":"都應該要分別休息36小時以及8小時的課程"},{"start":2325.04,"end":2331.04,"text":"預計在115年7月底完成課程者會有1萬2191人次"},{"start":2331.04,"end":2335.04,"text":"這部分我們是循序再增加"},{"start":2336.04,"end":2340.04,"text":"再麻煩把這些比較詳細的說明資料提供給我"},{"start":2340.04,"end":2346.04,"text":"那有關大學新階是不是用特殊選材或其他的方式"},{"start":2346.04,"end":2348.04,"text":"我們是不是請市長來說"},{"start":2348.04,"end":2349.04,"text":"委員好"},{"start":2349.04,"end":2352.04,"text":"那有關於我們原住民學生的就學權利"},{"start":2352.04,"end":2355.04,"text":"除了加分優待的這個部分"},{"start":2355.04,"end":2357.04,"text":"有參與他的族語認證之外"},{"start":2357.04,"end":2361.04,"text":"那我們在分發入學管道以外"},{"start":2361.04,"end":2364.04,"text":"如果他是參加其他的招生管道的話"},{"start":2364.04,"end":2368.04,"text":"我們原則上是會著重在他文化學習跟多元成"},{"start":2368.04,"end":2373.04,"text":"那個表現的一個成果來寓意審查他的經歷"},{"start":2373.04,"end":2377.04,"text":"所以說如果原民生他在申請入學的時候"},{"start":2377.04,"end":2382.04,"text":"我們會就是說加強學校在族群文化學習成果"},{"start":2382.04,"end":2385.04,"text":"納入他的一個加分的一個項目"},{"start":2385.04,"end":2388.04,"text":"那同時我們在大學招生專業化的時候"},{"start":2388.04,"end":2390.04,"text":"這個計畫裡頭"},{"start":2390.04,"end":2394.04,"text":"會將這個所謂的文化多元的這樣的一個審查"},{"start":2394.04,"end":2396.04,"text":"列為此規"},{"start":2396.04,"end":2398.04,"text":"那尤其是針對原住民學生的時候"},{"start":2398.04,"end":2402.04,"text":"作為他整個申請入學的一個發展的一個參考"},{"start":2402.04,"end":2404.04,"text":"所以這整個文化知識體系"},{"start":2404.04,"end":2409.04,"text":"如何進入所謂的專科以上的這個申請"},{"start":2409.04,"end":2411.04,"text":"其實我們有相關的一個配套"},{"start":2411.04,"end":2412.04,"text":"我想在高校的部分"},{"start":2412.04,"end":2414.04,"text":"如果之後其實還有一些比方說"},{"start":2414.04,"end":2416.04,"text":"這一類的一個成果的一個盤點"},{"start":2416.04,"end":2418.04,"text":"到時候再提供給我"},{"start":2418.04,"end":2420.04,"text":"那時間關係"},{"start":2420.04,"end":2421.04,"text":"今天第二個問題"},{"start":2421.04,"end":2423.04,"text":"我想請教一下這個次長的部分"},{"start":2423.04,"end":2426.04,"text":"是關於我們雙語教育的部分"},{"start":2426.04,"end":2428.04,"text":"那我想現在大家都在談"},{"start":2428.04,"end":2430.04,"text":"這個最近在修正的這個"},{"start":2430.04,"end":2433.04,"text":"外國教師聘僱管理規定"},{"start":2433.04,"end":2436.04,"text":"我想開放這個外師教授藝文或者是體育等"},{"start":2436.04,"end":2439.04,"text":"非語言領域的一些課程"},{"start":2439.04,"end":2442.04,"text":"當然我們是希望能夠創造一些比較生活化的"},{"start":2442.04,"end":2444.04,"text":"一個英語的環境"},{"start":2444.04,"end":2446.04,"text":"那當然這個方向其實我們是支持"},{"start":2446.04,"end":2448.04,"text":"但是我再次說明"},{"start":2448.04,"end":2450.04,"text":"這個雙語教育不能只看KPI"},{"start":2450.04,"end":2451.04,"text":"不能只看KPI"},{"start":2451.04,"end":2453.04,"text":"我們更不能把其他的學科"},{"start":2453.04,"end":2456.04,"text":"變成英文學習的一個工具"},{"start":2456.04,"end":2458.04,"text":"那我想這個教師公會跟第一線的老師"},{"start":2458.04,"end":2462.04,"text":"其實他們也都對這樣子的一個方向"},{"start":2462.04,"end":2465.04,"text":"表達出他們的一些聲音跟一些疑慮"},{"start":2465.04,"end":2467.04,"text":"那我想這個教育部可能真的要正視"},{"start":2467.04,"end":2471.04,"text":"就是說外師的學科專業到底是由誰來認定"},{"start":2471.04,"end":2474.04,"text":"那麼當然除了現在我們講到體育、藝文"},{"start":2474.04,"end":2476.04,"text":"除了英文能力之外"},{"start":2476.04,"end":2478.04,"text":"他的體育的專科還有藝術的專業"},{"start":2478.04,"end":2480.04,"text":"是由誰來認定"},{"start":2480.04,"end":2481.04,"text":"第一個問題"},{"start":2481.04,"end":2482.04,"text":"第二個問題"},{"start":2482.04,"end":2484.04,"text":"我怎麼確保這個學科的內容不會被稀釋"},{"start":2484.04,"end":2487.04,"text":"也就是說因為我們講的體育課"},{"start":2487.04,"end":2489.04,"text":"當然我們包含運動的技能、安全"},{"start":2489.04,"end":2491.04,"text":"還有我們的這個健康"},{"start":2491.04,"end":2494.04,"text":"那藝術的課程其實包含美感、創作、文化等等"},{"start":2494.04,"end":2498.04,"text":"但是如果最後為了因應學生的英文程度"},{"start":2498.04,"end":2501.04,"text":"我們老師在這兩門學科當中"},{"start":2501.04,"end":2506.04,"text":"可能會把所有的教學的內容不斷的簡化"},{"start":2506.04,"end":2510.04,"text":"變成是一個用英文來上一堂簡單的體育課"},{"start":2510.04,"end":2513.04,"text":"或上一堂簡單的所謂的藝文課"},{"start":2513.04,"end":2516.04,"text":"那這個時候到底我們是在做雙語教育"},{"start":2516.04,"end":2519.04,"text":"還是在犧牲學科的一個教育這個部分請教"},{"start":2519.04,"end":2521.04,"text":"好我想簡單來回答"},{"start":2521.04,"end":2524.04,"text":"就是這個之前可能我們媒體的報導"},{"start":2524.04,"end":2526.04,"text":"可能有一些這個誤解"},{"start":2526.04,"end":2528.04,"text":"第一個就是說教育部是配合"},{"start":2528.04,"end":2531.04,"text":"外國專業人才延展及僱用法的修法"},{"start":2531.04,"end":2533.04,"text":"我們才去修正各級學校"},{"start":2533.04,"end":2536.04,"text":"申請外國教師聘僱許可及管理辦法"},{"start":2536.04,"end":2538.04,"text":"才會去增列就是說"},{"start":2538.04,"end":2541.04,"text":"高中以下學校得聘外國專業人才"},{"start":2541.04,"end":2546.04,"text":"擔任語言及語言以外之藝能及活動相關領域或科目"},{"start":2546.04,"end":2548.04,"text":"但是就像委員剛才提的"},{"start":2548.04,"end":2552.04,"text":"外師的學科專業資格是由本部來審查認定"},{"start":2552.04,"end":2554.04,"text":"那這個他的這個認定呢"},{"start":2554.04,"end":2556.04,"text":"認定了就跟我們本國這個"},{"start":2556.04,"end":2559.04,"text":"本國的老師他要去認這個課程"},{"start":2559.04,"end":2561.04,"text":"他的角色也不是"},{"start":2561.04,"end":2564.04,"text":"他是以外師目前外師為主"},{"start":2564.04,"end":2566.04,"text":"那他如果有這個相關的背景"},{"start":2566.04,"end":2567.04,"text":"他是協同教學"},{"start":2567.04,"end":2569.04,"text":"他也不佔原來的名額"},{"start":2569.04,"end":2571.04,"text":"所以外界會誤認說"},{"start":2571.04,"end":2573.04,"text":"我們要聘外師來教體育或健康"},{"start":2573.04,"end":2575.04,"text":"然後好像是排擠了本國的事資"},{"start":2575.04,"end":2577.04,"text":"這個是一種錯誤的解讀"},{"start":2577.04,"end":2581.04,"text":"我們已經發布了新聞稿的成心"},{"start":2581.04,"end":2583.04,"text":"那即使外師有擔任"},{"start":2583.04,"end":2586.04,"text":"他如果真的要去專任的這個"},{"start":2586.04,"end":2588.04,"text":"相關的學科的課程"},{"start":2588.04,"end":2590.04,"text":"他一定是依照我們的程序來提出"},{"start":2590.04,"end":2592.04,"text":"那個是相當嚴謹也不容易取得"},{"start":2592.04,"end":2594.04,"text":"好 我想我們再次的表達"},{"start":2594.04,"end":2595.04,"text":"就是支持這個國際化"},{"start":2595.04,"end":2597.04,"text":"也希望這個孩子能夠學好英文"},{"start":2597.04,"end":2599.04,"text":"但是是個雙語教育的前提"},{"start":2599.04,"end":2601.04,"text":"其實不能犧牲學科啦"},{"start":2601.04,"end":2602.04,"text":"沒有犧牲學科"},{"start":2602.04,"end":2605.04,"text":"然後再來就是我們更怕的是造成城鄉差距"},{"start":2605.04,"end":2607.04,"text":"他是以雙語學習為主啦"},{"start":2607.04,"end":2608.04,"text":"他是協同教學"},{"start":2608.04,"end":2610.04,"text":"好 最後給我一點點時間"},{"start":2610.04,"end":2611.04,"text":"最後一個問題"},{"start":2611.04,"end":2612.04,"text":"我想這個最近雲林"},{"start":2612.04,"end":2613.04,"text":"就前一陣子有一個案例"},{"start":2613.04,"end":2615.04,"text":"就是一所國小在短短的兩年之內"},{"start":2615.04,"end":2617.04,"text":"他竟然要承辦農園"},{"start":2617.04,"end":2619.04,"text":"還有所謂的這個運動公園"},{"start":2619.04,"end":2622.04,"text":"橄欖球場 游泳池等大型的工程採購"},{"start":2622.04,"end":2625.04,"text":"那這個是非常荒謬的一件事情"},{"start":2625.04,"end":2626.04,"text":"我想這些工程"},{"start":2626.04,"end":2628.04,"text":"他原本應該跟學校的本身"},{"start":2628.04,"end":2630.04,"text":"其實是根本沒有直接的關係"},{"start":2630.04,"end":2632.04,"text":"學校也不具備所謂的"},{"start":2632.04,"end":2634.04,"text":"相關的工程的一個專業"},{"start":2634.04,"end":2636.04,"text":"但是一個沒有游泳池的國小"},{"start":2636.04,"end":2638.04,"text":"他為什麼要去負責所謂的"},{"start":2638.04,"end":2640.04,"text":"游泳池的設計跟發包"},{"start":2640.04,"end":2642.04,"text":"那麼依照我們政府採購法第四條"},{"start":2642.04,"end":2644.04,"text":"這個代辦採購就應該要"},{"start":2644.04,"end":2648.04,"text":"請所謂的這個具有專業能力的一個機關"},{"start":2648.04,"end":2650.04,"text":"但是這個地方政府他自己沒有能力"},{"start":2650.04,"end":2653.04,"text":"他本來應該就應該要找所謂的"},{"start":2653.04,"end":2655.04,"text":"專業工程的一個單位"},{"start":2655.04,"end":2656.04,"text":"不是把這個發包的工作"},{"start":2656.04,"end":2657.04,"text":"其實丟給學校"},{"start":2657.04,"end":2658.04,"text":"這個部分我想我們教育部"},{"start":2658.04,"end":2660.04,"text":"有沒有跟工程會來做了解"},{"start":2660.04,"end":2662.04,"text":"對 我想我們這部分都會提醒"},{"start":2662.04,"end":2664.04,"text":"因為那個國中小的地方知識"},{"start":2664.04,"end":2666.04,"text":"由地方縣市政府負責"},{"start":2666.04,"end":2667.04,"text":"那我們有提醒他們就是說"},{"start":2667.04,"end":2669.04,"text":"其實學校裡面他如果"},{"start":2669.04,"end":2671.04,"text":"你要委託學校去代辦全縣的"},{"start":2671.04,"end":2672.04,"text":"類似的工程"},{"start":2672.04,"end":2674.04,"text":"你要注意到那個學校有沒有專業的"},{"start":2674.04,"end":2676.04,"text":"一些工程的人才"},{"start":2676.04,"end":2677.04,"text":"如果沒有的話"},{"start":2677.04,"end":2679.04,"text":"其實我們在地方也待過"},{"start":2679.04,"end":2681.04,"text":"就很多學校的工程"},{"start":2681.04,"end":2685.04,"text":"甚至是委託縣府的專業發包機構來"},{"start":2685.04,"end":2687.04,"text":"就是建管機構來執行"},{"start":2687.04,"end":2690.04,"text":"所以如果是各級縣"},{"start":2690.04,"end":2691.04,"text":"我們有會再提醒"},{"start":2691.04,"end":2695.04,"text":"各級縣市政府要去委託學校去辦理"},{"start":2695.04,"end":2697.04,"text":"這個縣市政府的一般性採購"},{"start":2697.04,"end":2699.04,"text":"那如果涉及到委員所提的"},{"start":2699.04,"end":2701.04,"text":"他裡面的工程人才"},{"start":2701.04,"end":2703.04,"text":"並沒有相關的這些人才"},{"start":2703.04,"end":2704.04,"text":"那他來代辦的話"},{"start":2704.04,"end":2707.04,"text":"那個專業性跟他的這個事格"},{"start":2707.04,"end":2708.04,"text":"是不是合宜"},{"start":2708.04,"end":2710.04,"text":"這個我們會再提醒地方縣市政府"},{"start":2710.04,"end":2711.04,"text":"而且更重要的一點"},{"start":2711.04,"end":2713.04,"text":"其實我們一直不斷的在講"},{"start":2713.04,"end":2715.04,"text":"就是學校已經面臨教師"},{"start":2715.04,"end":2716.04,"text":"跟行政人力的一個不足"},{"start":2716.04,"end":2719.04,"text":"這個時候其實又要承擔這個上千萬"},{"start":2719.04,"end":2721.04,"text":"甚至上億的校外的工程"},{"start":2721.04,"end":2723.04,"text":"跟我學校其實是無關的"},{"start":2723.04,"end":2726.04,"text":"那學校反而沒有把所謂的"},{"start":2726.04,"end":2729.04,"text":"這些資源投入在我在教學的一個部分"},{"start":2729.04,"end":2732.04,"text":"還要替政府部門來做這樣子的一個工程"},{"start":2732.04,"end":2733.04,"text":"我想這個本部導致的這個部分"},{"start":2733.04,"end":2736.04,"text":"可能請教育部可能還是要稍微延遲"},{"start":2736.04,"end":2737.04,"text":"我們會跟地方政府再提醒一下"},{"start":2737.04,"end":2738.04,"text":"好謝謝市長"},{"start":2738.04,"end":2739.04,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2739.86,"end":2741.86,"text":"好謝謝郭一群委員的質詢"},{"start":2741.86,"end":2743.86,"text":"請次長回座"},{"start":2743.86,"end":2747.86,"text":"下一位我們有請陳秀寶委員進行詢答"},{"start":2753.91,"end":2754.91,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2754.91,"end":2755.91,"text":"請張廖次長"},{"start":2755.91,"end":2757.91,"text":"好有請張廖次長"},{"start":2761.35,"end":2762.35,"text":"市長早安"},{"start":2762.35,"end":2766.35,"text":"今天我們召委排的是原住民主學校的學校法的詢答"},{"start":2766.35,"end":2768.35,"text":"但是在進入這個主題之前"},{"start":2768.35,"end":2771.35,"text":"我這邊有幾個教育現場的一些相關的問題"},{"start":2771.35,"end":2773.35,"text":"先跟市長您來討論"},{"start":2773.35,"end":2776.35,"text":"根據監察院的調查報告指出"},{"start":2776.35,"end":2781.35,"text":"我國學子附錄交流的學生跟教師的人數劇增"},{"start":2781.35,"end":2788.35,"text":"大專院的學生從2196人增加到5745人"},{"start":2788.35,"end":2794.35,"text":"高中職的學生從676人增加到1161人"},{"start":2794.35,"end":2799.35,"text":"國中生也是從沒有增加到1021人"},{"start":2799.35,"end":2803.35,"text":"國小學生從38人增加到1045人"},{"start":2803.35,"end":2809.35,"text":"隨團的教師也從661人增加到1280人都是倍增"},{"start":2809.35,"end":2810.35,"text":"數據也顯示"},{"start":2810.35,"end":2814.35,"text":"我覺得中國對青少年統戰的年齡不斷的下修"},{"start":2814.35,"end":2817.35,"text":"教育部是不是也應該要正視這個警訊"},{"start":2817.35,"end":2822.35,"text":"監察院這邊要有針對教育部裡面建設一個平台"},{"start":2822.35,"end":2825.35,"text":"要求各級學校落實填報中國活動資訊"},{"start":2825.35,"end":2830.35,"text":"但是其實我覺得教育部沒有確實掌握各學校填報的情況"},{"start":2830.35,"end":2832.35,"text":"而且這個平台是事後登錄"},{"start":2832.35,"end":2834.35,"text":"這個機制並沒有很詳盡"},{"start":2834.35,"end":2836.35,"text":"其實很多交流活動回來之後"},{"start":2836.35,"end":2838.35,"text":"學校在填報只是虛擬故事"},{"start":2838.35,"end":2842.35,"text":"讓我們很難去實際掌握這些相關的活動"},{"start":2842.35,"end":2843.35,"text":"有沒有涉及統戰"},{"start":2843.35,"end":2846.35,"text":"或是它如果變更行程其實我們不曉得"},{"start":2846.35,"end":2849.35,"text":"那由各別教師自行招攬學生附錄交流這個行程"},{"start":2849.35,"end":2854.35,"text":"雖然是教育部從114年開始有要求就是說"},{"start":2854.35,"end":2856.35,"text":"要在這填報"},{"start":2856.35,"end":2861.35,"text":"但是很多教師自行招攬學生附錄沒有填報這個事情還是都有"},{"start":2861.35,"end":2864.35,"text":"那這樣的狀況之下其實我們很難掌握"},{"start":2864.35,"end":2867.35,"text":"那學生到那邊去這到底是什麼樣的行程"},{"start":2867.35,"end":2871.35,"text":"甚至說他們學生人身的安全我們很難以來保障他"},{"start":2871.35,"end":2874.35,"text":"那針對這個監察院提出的缺失"},{"start":2874.35,"end":2877.35,"text":"教師教育部目前有什麼改善的這個方向"},{"start":2877.35,"end":2882.35,"text":"我們其實教育部目前是配合陸委會來這個"},{"start":2882.35,"end":2886.35,"text":"來做一些這個建立這個平台跟管理"},{"start":2886.35,"end":2889.35,"text":"我們希望說兩岸的交流是真的是健康有序"},{"start":2889.35,"end":2893.35,"text":"而不是配合那個對岸的一個統戰的一個活動"},{"start":2893.35,"end":2896.35,"text":"那目前我們那個登錄平台在持續優化中"},{"start":2896.35,"end":2901.35,"text":"就是說他只要行前一個月或是回來之後一個月一定要登錄"},{"start":2901.35,"end":2905.35,"text":"確實剛才委員提到說他有時候如果他沒有登錄"},{"start":2905.35,"end":2908.35,"text":"或者是這個情況的話我們也會去查啦"},{"start":2908.35,"end":2914.35,"text":"那當然抽查或者是事後有家長或者是學校檢舉的話"},{"start":2914.35,"end":2917.35,"text":"我們事後如果查到的話也會予以糾正啦"},{"start":2917.35,"end":2923.35,"text":"那當然我們會再我們已經多次的通函"},{"start":2923.35,"end":2927.35,"text":"就是來提醒說應該加強校內自我檢核跟內控的機制啦"},{"start":2927.35,"end":2930.35,"text":"所以有些學校校長會說他們並不清楚"},{"start":2930.35,"end":2936.35,"text":"有老師他是透過外面的社團然後他帶領帶過去"},{"start":2936.35,"end":2941.35,"text":"那我們其實已經在通函裡面已經強調說學期內學期中"},{"start":2941.35,"end":2944.35,"text":"絕對不與這個公假準與前往"},{"start":2944.35,"end":2949.35,"text":"那寒暑假的活動比較多那這部分也必須要登錄"},{"start":2949.35,"end":2953.35,"text":"那也希望能夠這個有這個主動發現"},{"start":2953.35,"end":2958.35,"text":"或者是接獲檢舉學生附錄交流涉及陸方的統戰"},{"start":2958.35,"end":2963.35,"text":"我們如果收到的話也會來調查並且含資學校來改善"},{"start":2963.35,"end":2968.35,"text":"所以我們現在能做的就是一直把這樣的訊息然後提醒"},{"start":2968.35,"end":2973.35,"text":"如果老師如果學校有違反類似的狀況當然也在列入考核"},{"start":2973.35,"end":2978.35,"text":"對剛剛提到說剛剛提到這個中國滲透的這個年齡下降"},{"start":2978.35,"end":2980.35,"text":"以及平台填報不實的狀況"},{"start":2980.35,"end":2984.35,"text":"其實也有大專校院他們附錄交流踩到紅線"},{"start":2984.35,"end":2988.35,"text":"我知道教育部這邊有扣減講補助的這個辦法"},{"start":2988.35,"end":2994.35,"text":"也有這樣子做了那其實我想有其他的私立大學也有不少違規的"},{"start":2994.35,"end":3000.35,"text":"那教育部針對這些違規的學校如果他已經被譬如說被處罰過了"},{"start":3000.35,"end":3004.35,"text":"如果再犯那除了這個扣減這個講補助之後"},{"start":3004.35,"end":3006.35,"text":"我們還有沒有什麼其他的懲罰的措施"},{"start":3006.35,"end":3012.35,"text":"我們會我們當然扣減補助款我相信那個對現在對這個私立學校來講"},{"start":3012.35,"end":3014.35,"text":"是已經是非常嚴重的一個處分"},{"start":3014.35,"end":3020.35,"text":"那如果他這個學那個學校不求改不改善的話"},{"start":3020.35,"end":3022.35,"text":"那當然那個處分會越來越重"},{"start":3022.35,"end":3023.35,"text":"就是會繼續扣減"},{"start":3023.35,"end":3024.35,"text":"會很嚴重"},{"start":3024.35,"end":3030.35,"text":"那而且大專校院這個研究所的教評委員"},{"start":3030.35,"end":3036.35,"text":"還有主席有傳出說是聘請中國的學校的教授擔任"},{"start":3036.35,"end":3040.35,"text":"那教育部你們也說明說教評會這樣的組成是有瑕疵的"},{"start":3040.35,"end":3043.35,"text":"那我們如何避免這樣的爭議再次發生"},{"start":3043.35,"end":3045.35,"text":"我請那個市長來跟你說請市長"},{"start":3045.35,"end":3047.35,"text":"報告委員針對這個個案"},{"start":3047.35,"end":3051.35,"text":"我們其實有實地去訪查整個他們學校的運作課程"},{"start":3051.35,"end":3055.35,"text":"確實發現他們在師資結構上面確實出現問題"},{"start":3055.35,"end":3061.35,"text":"所以才會研聘現在正在中國任教的一個就是退休的教師"},{"start":3061.35,"end":3065.35,"text":"那我們在整個有關於他退休金相關的方面"},{"start":3065.35,"end":3067.35,"text":"我們也都在做相關的調查"},{"start":3067.35,"end":3070.35,"text":"那這個部分我們已經責成學校要檢討改進"},{"start":3070.35,"end":3074.35,"text":"那相關的情形應該就是這一個學期"},{"start":3074.35,"end":3076.35,"text":"8月1號開始就不會再出現"},{"start":3076.35,"end":3079.35,"text":"但是成如剛才委員所講的這個我們會"},{"start":3079.35,"end":3081.35,"text":"責成各個學校"},{"start":3081.35,"end":3084.35,"text":"所有的學校都要來遵守相關的一些規範"},{"start":3084.35,"end":3088.35,"text":"相關的這樣的案例可能要去提醒學校避免這樣的狀況"},{"start":3088.35,"end":3091.35,"text":"好那還有呢除了說去交流"},{"start":3091.35,"end":3096.35,"text":"我們也很多的國小或是國中的學生去參加體育的比賽"},{"start":3096.35,"end":3100.35,"text":"那中國呢卻是故意的隱蔽我們學校"},{"start":3100.35,"end":3102.35,"text":"國國參賽學校的校民"},{"start":3102.35,"end":3104.35,"text":"也被質疑說這是統戰交流"},{"start":3104.35,"end":3106.35,"text":"那這個部分教育部的立場是什麼"},{"start":3106.35,"end":3109.35,"text":"我們有什麼樣的方式可以來防範"},{"start":3109.35,"end":3110.35,"text":"對跟委員報告說"},{"start":3110.35,"end":3117.35,"text":"早期其實在兩岸交流方面這部分本來是非常平常的一個體育交流活動"},{"start":3117.35,"end":3119.35,"text":"那就是因為這幾年來"},{"start":3119.35,"end":3121.35,"text":"大概這個交流活動變質"},{"start":3121.35,"end":3125.35,"text":"就是有所謂的融合或者統戰等等的這個目的"},{"start":3125.35,"end":3129.35,"text":"所以我們已經多次的再通知學校"},{"start":3129.35,"end":3131.35,"text":"就是這種化整為零的方式"},{"start":3131.35,"end":3134.35,"text":"這樣過去一旦被查獲的話"},{"start":3134.35,"end":3138.35,"text":"我們一定會做其他將來如果學校申請相關的"},{"start":3138.35,"end":3140.35,"text":"體育交流的補助"},{"start":3140.35,"end":3144.35,"text":"或者是相關的一些活動的一些設備的申請"},{"start":3144.35,"end":3147.35,"text":"我們也會考慮予以扣減"},{"start":3147.35,"end":3148.35,"text":"就是要提醒學校"},{"start":3148.35,"end":3149.35,"text":"對會提醒學校"},{"start":3149.35,"end":3152.35,"text":"其實中國的這個滲透的手段是越來越多"},{"start":3152.35,"end":3155.35,"text":"那尤其透過教育教育交流的方式"},{"start":3155.35,"end":3162.35,"text":"好像就是用這樣的方式是企圖影響我國的學生"},{"start":3162.35,"end":3165.35,"text":"那麼就是在這個混淆這個國家認同"},{"start":3165.35,"end":3168.35,"text":"所以我們應該要重視這個很嚴重的這個問題"},{"start":3168.35,"end":3171.35,"text":"其實到中國大陸交流或比賽"},{"start":3171.35,"end":3176.35,"text":"相對去其他國家的風險是很複雜而且比較高的風險"},{"start":3176.35,"end":3179.35,"text":"當然我們學生我們的選手有機會去交流"},{"start":3179.35,"end":3183.35,"text":"去比賽做一個互相的切磋應該是美式"},{"start":3183.35,"end":3186.35,"text":"但是中國他們正覺不穩對安全他也不注重"},{"start":3186.35,"end":3189.35,"text":"像石的安全行的安全常常都發生意外"},{"start":3189.35,"end":3192.35,"text":"再來就是說現在其實中國對我們"},{"start":3192.35,"end":3194.35,"text":"這是一個不對等的交流"},{"start":3194.35,"end":3198.35,"text":"他們也是很偏偏的阻止他們的學生來我們台灣"},{"start":3198.35,"end":3200.35,"text":"但是我們台灣的學生會過去"},{"start":3200.35,"end":3202.35,"text":"那我們過去交流的相關的訊息"},{"start":3202.35,"end":3205.35,"text":"他也不會去轉發也不會去公開"},{"start":3205.35,"end":3208.35,"text":"就等於是一個不對等的訊息是不公開的"},{"start":3208.35,"end":3210.35,"text":"那這樣子的有個統戰的疑慮"},{"start":3210.35,"end":3213.35,"text":"我們去的單位我們交流的單位比賽的單位"},{"start":3213.35,"end":3217.35,"text":"被他們隱蔽了這些校名單位的名稱"},{"start":3217.35,"end":3221.35,"text":"我想這個而且他們在會議中各種的發言"},{"start":3221.35,"end":3224.35,"text":"可能會有什麼兩岸融合一家親這樣的說法"},{"start":3224.35,"end":3227.35,"text":"來混淆我們的孩子對國家的認同"},{"start":3227.35,"end":3229.35,"text":"我想這是一個很嚴重的問題"},{"start":3229.35,"end":3232.35,"text":"也希望說教育部這邊你們真的是要有一個"},{"start":3232.35,"end":3235.35,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在也是跟陸委會來推動"},{"start":3235.35,"end":3238.35,"text":"各級學校辦理那個中國大陸試圖的課程跟活動"},{"start":3238.35,"end":3243.35,"text":"來加強對兩岸關係以及政府兩岸政策的正確認知"},{"start":3243.35,"end":3244.35,"text":"避免自我矮化"},{"start":3244.35,"end":3247.35,"text":"那我們在九月跟十月份的時候"},{"start":3247.35,"end":3252.35,"text":"也會針對大學校院督導兩岸教育交流業務主管人員及承辦人員"},{"start":3252.35,"end":3255.35,"text":"來辦理兩次的研習活動"},{"start":3255.35,"end":3260.35,"text":"提升學校這個兩岸教育交流事務相關人員的專業性"},{"start":3260.35,"end":3264.35,"text":"以及認知性跟警覺性這部分我們會加強來推動"},{"start":3264.35,"end":3267.35,"text":"那這樣次長我請剛才我提到的這些問題"},{"start":3267.35,"end":3269.35,"text":"你是不是也一份順便報告給北市辦公室"},{"start":3269.35,"end":3272.35,"text":"然後我再爭取一點點時間我要講一下"},{"start":3272.35,"end":3274.35,"text":"八月三十一號就要開學了"},{"start":3274.35,"end":3279.35,"text":"那很多家長跟基層教育現場都非常關心學校準備的情況"},{"start":3279.35,"end":3281.35,"text":"那現在有個問題就是說"},{"start":3281.35,"end":3283.35,"text":"第一個針對學校反毒的這個工作"},{"start":3283.35,"end":3286.35,"text":"我們預計在九份預計在九月的時候"},{"start":3286.35,"end":3288.35,"text":"一通明指這個新興毒品"},{"start":3288.35,"end":3291.35,"text":"我們要導入校園的這個唾液快篩的這個機制"},{"start":3291.35,"end":3294.35,"text":"我們是非常支持這個保護學校的初衷"},{"start":3294.35,"end":3298.35,"text":"但是基層學校也反映說相關的規範還沒有明朗"},{"start":3298.35,"end":3303.35,"text":"那目前的尚未法毒品危害防治條例的修法進度"},{"start":3303.35,"end":3307.35,"text":"目前怎麼樣那教育部這邊的配套作業什麼時候可以定案"},{"start":3307.35,"end":3309.35,"text":"如果開學前法規沒有完備的話"},{"start":3309.35,"end":3312.35,"text":"那這樣的這個機制是不是會順眼"},{"start":3312.35,"end":3315.35,"text":"或者說我們預計何時可以正式的推行"},{"start":3315.35,"end":3319.35,"text":"好各位報告我們在今年的六月十八號行政院院會"},{"start":3319.35,"end":3325.35,"text":"已經通過了那個毒品危害防治條例第三十三條及第三十六條的修正草案"},{"start":3325.35,"end":3328.35,"text":"目前正送立法院在審議中"},{"start":3328.35,"end":3331.35,"text":"那我們這個從今年的二月開始"},{"start":3331.35,"end":3337.35,"text":"其實我們也不斷在研修各級學校特定人員尿液篩檢及輔導作業的要點"},{"start":3337.35,"end":3345.35,"text":"有訂定這個唾液快篩工具執行程序結果處理及輔導轉介介入等相關的規定"},{"start":3345.35,"end":3347.35,"text":"讓學校能夠有所依循"},{"start":3347.35,"end":3351.35,"text":"那麼等到這個修法完成之後法源完備之後"},{"start":3351.35,"end":3355.35,"text":"會來推動學校對於特定人員的一個唾液篩檢"},{"start":3355.35,"end":3358.35,"text":"那我們相關的作業要點是已經定案了"},{"start":3358.35,"end":3361.35,"text":"然後只要他三位法修訂完成就可以馬上實行嗎"},{"start":3361.35,"end":3363.35,"text":"是我們其實現在"},{"start":3363.35,"end":3364.35,"text":"就是已經就緒了"},{"start":3364.35,"end":3368.35,"text":"對其實已經就緒了我們也會再加強跟學校這邊的一個溝通"},{"start":3368.35,"end":3373.35,"text":"其實我更希望說我們能夠主動加強跟第一線教師的溝通跟宣導"},{"start":3373.35,"end":3375.35,"text":"我們一定要有很明確的作業指引"},{"start":3375.35,"end":3378.35,"text":"讓他們在執行的時候可以更放心"},{"start":3378.35,"end":3380.35,"text":"這一點教育部你們現在做法"},{"start":3380.35,"end":3383.35,"text":"其實我們在七月的時候七月二十一號大概一個"},{"start":3383.35,"end":3389.35,"text":"三個禮拜前有針對大專校園校園安全支援中心及國教署"},{"start":3389.35,"end":3397.35,"text":"以及各縣市的教育局處聯絡都來辦理這個總指教師以及校園執行人員的一個教育訓練"},{"start":3397.35,"end":3402.35,"text":"這些內容就包括對新興毒品的辨識還有那個試劑的操作"},{"start":3402.35,"end":3405.35,"text":"以及這個隱私的維護結果的判讀"},{"start":3405.35,"end":3408.35,"text":"那校園的通報跟後續要怎麼輔導轉介"},{"start":3408.35,"end":3410.35,"text":"所以我們相關的指引作業指引都已經有給"},{"start":3410.35,"end":3412.35,"text":"對我們暑假上個月有做這方面"},{"start":3412.35,"end":3413.35,"text":"都有給教師"},{"start":3413.35,"end":3417.35,"text":"另外取中學校面臨的現在很嚴重的一個問題"},{"start":3417.35,"end":3421.35,"text":"就是教師跟代理教師招募困難的狀況"},{"start":3421.35,"end":3424.35,"text":"那現在離開學只剩下兩個禮拜"},{"start":3424.35,"end":3428.35,"text":"那部分的學校經歷多次的徵學沒有辦法補齊這些相關的資資"},{"start":3428.35,"end":3431.35,"text":"所以我們家長就會很擔心說開學之後"},{"start":3431.35,"end":3435.35,"text":"到底課程的協階跟我們學生受教的權益"},{"start":3436.35,"end":3440.35,"text":"那請教教育部現在有沒有掌握各縣市缺耳的狀況"},{"start":3440.35,"end":3442.35,"text":"如果說有這樣的缺耳發生"},{"start":3442.35,"end":3446.35,"text":"我們會不會有跨縣市或是短期的這樣配套措施來支援"},{"start":3446.35,"end":3448.35,"text":"對我們因為這樣子"},{"start":3448.35,"end":3451.35,"text":"我們跟幾乎每個禮拜都跟各縣市政府有開會"},{"start":3451.35,"end":3454.35,"text":"就他那個缺耳是不斷的浮動"},{"start":3454.35,"end":3456.35,"text":"有的會臨時又請假等等"},{"start":3456.35,"end":3458.35,"text":"所以我們目前在掌握當中"},{"start":3458.35,"end":3460.35,"text":"也在協助也建立了平台"},{"start":3460.35,"end":3462.35,"text":"就是說梅河的那個平台"},{"start":3462.35,"end":3464.35,"text":"能夠把那個訊息公告出來"},{"start":3464.35,"end":3467.35,"text":"讓要去做這個代理教育"},{"start":3467.35,"end":3471.35,"text":"那這樣子次長您將到目前為止到這個禮拜"},{"start":3471.35,"end":3473.35,"text":"你們所掌握的相關的缺耳狀況"},{"start":3473.35,"end":3475.35,"text":"可不可以一份資料給我辦公室"},{"start":3475.35,"end":3477.35,"text":"我們再提供給委員好不好"},{"start":3477.35,"end":3478.35,"text":"因為那個一直在浮動"},{"start":3478.35,"end":3482.35,"text":"請務必要確實的能夠協助學校開學之後"},{"start":3482.35,"end":3486.35,"text":"可以順利的讓學生受教不會受到影響"},{"start":3486.35,"end":3487.35,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":3487.35,"end":3488.35,"text":"謝謝次長"},{"start":3489.17,"end":3491.17,"text":"好謝謝陳秀芳委員的質詢"},{"start":3491.17,"end":3492.17,"text":"請次長回座"},{"start":3492.17,"end":3497.17,"text":"下一位我們有請蘇巧惠委員進行詢答"},{"start":3505.51,"end":3507.51,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":3507.51,"end":3511.51,"text":"我們請張廖次長還有杜彰副主委"},{"start":3511.51,"end":3514.51,"text":"好有請張廖次長及杜彰副主委"},{"start":3518.54,"end":3520.54,"text":"次長好副主委好"},{"start":3520.54,"end":3525.54,"text":"那我同樣的問題可能有時候會想請兩位都分別回答一下"},{"start":3525.54,"end":3529.54,"text":"因為今天我們最主要要來說這個原住民族學校"},{"start":3529.54,"end":3533.54,"text":"到底這個制度到底要怎麼設立"},{"start":3533.54,"end":3536.54,"text":"那當然就牽涉到原住民族的這個教育法的這個部分呢"},{"start":3536.54,"end":3538.54,"text":"我們要怎麼樣訂定"},{"start":3538.54,"end":3541.54,"text":"那其實我們在六月的時候已經開過公聽會了"},{"start":3541.54,"end":3543.54,"text":"那大家意見分層"},{"start":3543.54,"end":3547.54,"text":"不只是專家學者的意見還沒有達到一致的共識"},{"start":3547.54,"end":3549.54,"text":"那同時教育部跟原民會"},{"start":3549.54,"end":3553.54,"text":"那其實在意見上面也不見得說百分百完全一樣"},{"start":3553.54,"end":3557.54,"text":"所以我前前面幾個問題想請教兩位都分別回答一下"},{"start":3557.54,"end":3559.54,"text":"請問次長好簡單"},{"start":3559.54,"end":3563.54,"text":"你認為原住民族學校應不應該設立"},{"start":3563.54,"end":3569.54,"text":"那它和原住民族實驗學校也就是現在有的有什麼差異"},{"start":3569.54,"end":3571.54,"text":"好我想那個"},{"start":3572.54,"end":3575.54,"text":"我們是尊重那個聯合國憲法的那個"},{"start":3575.54,"end":3578.54,"text":"聯合國憲章跟憲法的精神"},{"start":3578.54,"end":3580.54,"text":"我們是支持成立"},{"start":3580.54,"end":3584.54,"text":"但是那個整個原住民知識體系的建立"},{"start":3584.54,"end":3588.54,"text":"我想基本上基於原住民族自治自主的精神"},{"start":3588.54,"end":3591.54,"text":"我們尊重原民會這邊的一個計畫推動"},{"start":3591.54,"end":3593.54,"text":"所以第一你贊成要設立"},{"start":3593.54,"end":3596.54,"text":"但是第二你這個整盤直接要給原民會"},{"start":3596.54,"end":3600.54,"text":"不是他們因為他那個有關原住民知識體系的建立"},{"start":3600.54,"end":3603.54,"text":"那需要時間需要累積他們計畫"},{"start":3603.54,"end":3605.54,"text":"所以他一定要累積到一定的成果"},{"start":3605.54,"end":3609.54,"text":"譬如說有很多我們以前很關心主義老師夠不夠"},{"start":3609.54,"end":3612.54,"text":"老師的老師的自治培育怎麼樣子來進行"},{"start":3612.54,"end":3614.54,"text":"所以這個會有一段過程"},{"start":3614.54,"end":3618.54,"text":"那實驗那個原住民實驗學校大概上路大概十年左右"},{"start":3618.54,"end":3620.54,"text":"十年左右有累積相當的成果"},{"start":3620.54,"end":3622.54,"text":"但是也有不少問題"},{"start":3622.54,"end":3625.54,"text":"譬如說有些學校像我們到和平區"},{"start":3625.54,"end":3628.54,"text":"他有泰雅的一個專門的實驗學校"},{"start":3628.54,"end":3631.54,"text":"以泰雅族為本位的一個教材編列的方式"},{"start":3631.54,"end":3635.54,"text":"那我們到了花東區可能又是另外一套編列方式"},{"start":3635.54,"end":3637.54,"text":"那當然因為我們是不同族別"},{"start":3637.54,"end":3642.54,"text":"所以這個將來如何建立一個原住民族"},{"start":3642.54,"end":3645.54,"text":"為主體性的一個自治體系"},{"start":3645.54,"end":3647.54,"text":"我想這部分我們還是尊重原民會的一個"},{"start":3647.54,"end":3648.54,"text":"好這是你的答案"},{"start":3648.54,"end":3650.54,"text":"那我們請杜葬副主委"},{"start":3650.54,"end":3653.54,"text":"原住民學校要成立這個當然是應該"},{"start":3653.54,"end":3655.54,"text":"當然答案方向是肯定的嘛"},{"start":3655.54,"end":3656.54,"text":"一定是要的嘛"},{"start":3656.54,"end":3659.54,"text":"但是他和現在原住民學校"},{"start":3659.54,"end":3663.54,"text":"原住民族學校跟目前的原住民實驗教育學校"},{"start":3663.54,"end":3664.54,"text":"這個有什麼差別"},{"start":3664.54,"end":3667.54,"text":"我想實驗教育學校現在目前就等於是"},{"start":3667.54,"end":3670.54,"text":"原住民族學校先起的這個測試"},{"start":3670.54,"end":3675.54,"text":"就是我們透過這個實驗學校來看到"},{"start":3675.54,"end":3678.54,"text":"未來如果要建立原住民學校的時候"},{"start":3678.54,"end":3680.54,"text":"你看我們事實上數量一直在增加"},{"start":3680.54,"end":3682.54,"text":"那為什麼從實驗學校跳到"},{"start":3682.54,"end":3684.54,"text":"現在目前就是說也有一些問題發生"},{"start":3684.54,"end":3687.54,"text":"就是說我們擔心說如果原住民學校直接設立的時候"},{"start":3687.54,"end":3690.54,"text":"可能師資的這個培育"},{"start":3690.54,"end":3693.54,"text":"還有這個知識結構的建立"},{"start":3693.54,"end":3697.54,"text":"還有這個軟硬體各方面我們覺得還並不是很完備"},{"start":3697.54,"end":3698.54,"text":"我們擔心這個成立以後"},{"start":3698.54,"end":3700.54,"text":"實際上還有這個學生的來源"},{"start":3700.54,"end":3702.54,"text":"家長的餘力這個都是要考慮的啦"},{"start":3702.54,"end":3704.54,"text":"好非常謝謝兩位的答案"},{"start":3704.54,"end":3705.54,"text":"希望階段性的來進行"},{"start":3705.54,"end":3707.54,"text":"是非常謝謝兩位的答案"},{"start":3707.54,"end":3710.54,"text":"我想其實這就是我們今天要討論問題的核心"},{"start":3710.54,"end":3713.54,"text":"大家都同意要有原住民族學校這個方向沒有錯"},{"start":3713.54,"end":3716.54,"text":"那我們也看得到現階段其實在實驗教育的部分"},{"start":3716.54,"end":3720.54,"text":"我們從這個105年只有7所到現在114年"},{"start":3720.54,"end":3726.54,"text":"已經有國小39所國中3所國中小2所完全中學1所"},{"start":3726.54,"end":3727.54,"text":"這樣的數量了"},{"start":3727.54,"end":3731.54,"text":"事實上在我們新北這邊烏來的這個德拉南學校"},{"start":3731.54,"end":3734.54,"text":"也辦理的相當有成績"},{"start":3734.54,"end":3737.54,"text":"但是就如同次長或副主委說的"},{"start":3737.54,"end":3739.54,"text":"他的問題也還是在"},{"start":3739.54,"end":3741.54,"text":"這最大的問題其實就是幾個嘛"},{"start":3741.54,"end":3743.54,"text":"第一個的話就是教育師資的問題"},{"start":3743.54,"end":3747.54,"text":"其實真的是師資非常非常的難找"},{"start":3747.54,"end":3751.54,"text":"尤其是你還要同時具有原住民族身份"},{"start":3751.54,"end":3754.54,"text":"甚至是你的族語還要是通過族語認證"},{"start":3754.54,"end":3757.54,"text":"而且是中高階甚至是高階以上這樣的認證"},{"start":3757.54,"end":3758.54,"text":"真的是很難找"},{"start":3758.54,"end":3760.54,"text":"第二是課程的研發設計"},{"start":3760.54,"end":3763.54,"text":"就兩位剛剛也都回答這樣的狀況"},{"start":3763.54,"end":3765.54,"text":"因為我們的族別是相當的多"},{"start":3765.54,"end":3767.54,"text":"而且過去我們的知識傳習體系"},{"start":3767.54,"end":3770.54,"text":"跟現在的學校教育體系不見得相同"},{"start":3770.54,"end":3772.54,"text":"不見得完全相符"},{"start":3772.54,"end":3774.54,"text":"所以要能夠編撰成課程"},{"start":3774.54,"end":3776.54,"text":"這個又是一大挑戰"},{"start":3776.54,"end":3779.54,"text":"那最後其實是行政繁重"},{"start":3779.54,"end":3781.54,"text":"因為光是兩位次長副主委站在這裡"},{"start":3781.54,"end":3784.54,"text":"其實到底什麼事情應該是要歸教育部"},{"start":3784.54,"end":3785.54,"text":"什麼事情要歸原民會"},{"start":3785.54,"end":3788.54,"text":"兩個事情兩個部會又有沒有重疊規定"},{"start":3788.54,"end":3790.54,"text":"以至於要變成兩邊都要服務"},{"start":3790.54,"end":3793.54,"text":"或者是下去以後到底是要由哪一個單位來做"},{"start":3793.54,"end":3794.54,"text":"我想不只中央"},{"start":3794.54,"end":3797.54,"text":"甚至是地方其實也相當的遇到困難"},{"start":3797.54,"end":3799.54,"text":"所以在這樣的三個部分來講的話"},{"start":3799.54,"end":3801.54,"text":"我也想請教了"},{"start":3801.54,"end":3803.54,"text":"所以我們既然朝著要的方向"},{"start":3803.54,"end":3806.54,"text":"甚至是我們現在也承認了"},{"start":3806.54,"end":3807.54,"text":"在實驗教育的階段"},{"start":3807.54,"end":3809.54,"text":"就也已經有這樣的問題"},{"start":3809.54,"end":3810.54,"text":"不曉得兩位"},{"start":3810.54,"end":3814.54,"text":"比如說這個其實應該還是要問教育部這邊"},{"start":3814.54,"end":3816.54,"text":"那請張廖次長等一下又先回答"},{"start":3816.54,"end":3819.54,"text":"在這個三大問題"},{"start":3819.54,"end":3821.54,"text":"師資 課程設計"},{"start":3821.54,"end":3823.54,"text":"以及行政負擔的這個部分"},{"start":3823.54,"end":3825.54,"text":"我們先從師資好了"},{"start":3825.54,"end":3827.54,"text":"那我們就也甚至先回到實驗教育"},{"start":3827.54,"end":3829.54,"text":"那您在師資的這個部分的話"},{"start":3831.01,"end":3834.01,"text":"現在有什麼樣的增加的方式嗎"},{"start":3834.01,"end":3835.01,"text":"不然的話"},{"start":3835.01,"end":3837.01,"text":"如果我們連現在實驗教育的階段"},{"start":3837.01,"end":3839.01,"text":"都沒有辦法克服它的困難"},{"start":3839.01,"end":3841.01,"text":"我們要怎麼樣討論到"},{"start":3841.01,"end":3843.01,"text":"後來要有原住民族學校呢"},{"start":3843.01,"end":3845.01,"text":"那大家又都同意要有原住民學校"},{"start":3845.01,"end":3847.01,"text":"你現在不往這邊走"},{"start":3847.01,"end":3849.01,"text":"那我怎麼相信這是要有的呢"},{"start":3849.01,"end":3852.01,"text":"對 其實我們現在在師資培育上"},{"start":3852.01,"end":3855.01,"text":"確實是比較首要的問題"},{"start":3855.01,"end":3858.01,"text":"我們現在是透過很多次專長課程"},{"start":3858.01,"end":3863.01,"text":"或相關的原住民族相關議題的學分班"},{"start":3863.01,"end":3868.01,"text":"那盡量能夠培育有相關專長的老師"},{"start":3870.03,"end":3872.03,"text":"要培育那個完全的"},{"start":3872.03,"end":3874.03,"text":"剛才那個委員有提到那個主語老師"},{"start":3874.03,"end":3876.03,"text":"有時候他因為"},{"start":3876.03,"end":3878.03,"text":"他的那個他可能會講"},{"start":3878.03,"end":3879.03,"text":"可是他的那個"},{"start":3879.03,"end":3881.03,"text":"要用到主語來進行教學"},{"start":3881.03,"end":3883.03,"text":"那又是另外一件事情"},{"start":3883.03,"end":3885.03,"text":"所以這個在培育上面"},{"start":3885.03,"end":3887.03,"text":"其實在我們的那個"},{"start":3887.03,"end":3889.03,"text":"師資培育的體系裡面"},{"start":3889.03,"end":3891.03,"text":"事實上如果要"},{"start":3891.03,"end":3893.03,"text":"我們現在盡量透過次專長"},{"start":3893.03,"end":3895.03,"text":"因為能夠進入師培的體系的"},{"start":3895.03,"end":3896.03,"text":"他們的主語老師"},{"start":3896.03,"end":3897.03,"text":"他不見得有資質"},{"start":3897.03,"end":3899.03,"text":"那原民會這邊有沒有任何的這個補助機制"},{"start":3899.03,"end":3900.03,"text":"怎麼樣的鼓勵方式"},{"start":3900.03,"end":3904.03,"text":"我們今年有特別委託國立大學來對我們的課綱"},{"start":3904.03,"end":3906.03,"text":"課程來做一個研發啦"},{"start":3906.03,"end":3907.03,"text":"就來配合說"},{"start":3907.03,"end":3909.03,"text":"未來原住民族學校他真正成立的時候"},{"start":3909.03,"end":3911.03,"text":"所以你是跳到第二個課程設計的部分"},{"start":3911.03,"end":3913.03,"text":"那師資的部分呢"},{"start":3913.03,"end":3914.03,"text":"主語認真的部分呢"},{"start":3914.03,"end":3917.03,"text":"我們目前是希望說能夠透過"},{"start":3917.03,"end":3920.03,"text":"跟社區的這些起勞們能夠結合"},{"start":3920.03,"end":3923.03,"text":"能夠在課程研發上可能不單單只有"},{"start":3923.03,"end":3924.03,"text":"師資的培育"},{"start":3924.03,"end":3925.03,"text":"他自己能說主語"},{"start":3925.03,"end":3926.03,"text":"因為說主語這件事情"},{"start":3926.03,"end":3928.03,"text":"你要在課程上說主語"},{"start":3928.03,"end":3930.03,"text":"要培養不是短時間"},{"start":3930.03,"end":3932.03,"text":"那這當然又回到另外一個問題"},{"start":3932.03,"end":3934.03,"text":"您現在在說的是起勞"},{"start":3934.03,"end":3937.03,"text":"來用主語來教育大家這些知識知識的部分"},{"start":3937.03,"end":3939.03,"text":"對 文化課程嘛"},{"start":3939.03,"end":3940.03,"text":"好 那可是我們再想像一下"},{"start":3940.03,"end":3943.03,"text":"如果我們今天是一間原住民族學校"},{"start":3943.03,"end":3945.03,"text":"那我們現在的實驗教育裡面"},{"start":3945.03,"end":3947.03,"text":"是有一般的課程"},{"start":3947.03,"end":3949.03,"text":"還有原住民文化的相關課程"},{"start":3949.03,"end":3950.03,"text":"文化課程"},{"start":3950.03,"end":3951.03,"text":"一般課程加文化課程"},{"start":3951.03,"end":3953.03,"text":"是存在我們的實驗教育裡面"},{"start":3953.03,"end":3955.03,"text":"那未來我們的原住民族學校裡面"},{"start":3956.03,"end":3958.03,"text":"它是一般課程依然保有嗎"},{"start":3958.03,"end":3961.03,"text":"那一般課程也是要用主語教學嗎"},{"start":3961.03,"end":3962.03,"text":"你要用阿梅語"},{"start":3962.03,"end":3965.03,"text":"你要用泰雅語來教授我們現在的華文嗎"},{"start":3965.03,"end":3967.03,"text":"還是是要用泰雅語"},{"start":3967.03,"end":3969.03,"text":"阿梅語來教授我們的數學嗎"},{"start":3969.03,"end":3972.03,"text":"所以這個就是我們現在委託研究這方面"},{"start":3972.03,"end":3974.03,"text":"我們想要做一個比較清楚的釐清"},{"start":3974.03,"end":3976.03,"text":"那用主語來教一般課程"},{"start":3976.03,"end":3978.03,"text":"是不是有它的難度可能"},{"start":3978.03,"end":3980.03,"text":"我認為是有相當的難度"},{"start":3980.03,"end":3983.03,"text":"因為要用全母語來教育文化課程"},{"start":3983.03,"end":3987.03,"text":"就已經有教和學之間的困難點"},{"start":3987.03,"end":3989.03,"text":"所以這些困難點如果沒有打通的話"},{"start":3989.03,"end":3991.03,"text":"我們其實要進到下一步"},{"start":3991.03,"end":3993.03,"text":"其實是有相當相當的難度"},{"start":3993.03,"end":3995.03,"text":"這也就是今天我們要審查法規之前"},{"start":3995.03,"end":3997.03,"text":"我們還是要很務實的"},{"start":3997.03,"end":3999.03,"text":"把現場實務的狀況能夠釐清"},{"start":3999.03,"end":4002.03,"text":"因為我們事實上我們前進到"},{"start":4002.03,"end":4005.03,"text":"我們是真正在實驗小學裡面看到的狀況"},{"start":4005.03,"end":4007.03,"text":"實驗小學一間學校裡面"},{"start":4007.03,"end":4010.03,"text":"你從老師到行政人員要有多少人"},{"start":4010.03,"end":4014.03,"text":"這些人到底是要有多少是具有原民身份的"},{"start":4014.03,"end":4016.03,"text":"要有多少是會主語身份的"},{"start":4016.03,"end":4020.03,"text":"才能建構所謂一個沉浸式的主語教學環境"},{"start":4020.03,"end":4022.03,"text":"而我這間學校裡面"},{"start":4022.03,"end":4024.03,"text":"孩子又是哪一個族別的"},{"start":4024.03,"end":4027.03,"text":"這個族別裡面我們這麼多族裡面"},{"start":4027.03,"end":4030.03,"text":"你要讓他沉浸在哪一種語言裡面"},{"start":4030.03,"end":4032.03,"text":"這也就是另外一個問題"},{"start":4032.03,"end":4036.03,"text":"所以我阿美的孩子去到泰雅或者是去排灣"},{"start":4036.03,"end":4038.03,"text":"我們可以學會互相尊重"},{"start":4038.03,"end":4040.03,"text":"但這是我要的狀況嗎"},{"start":4040.03,"end":4043.03,"text":"所以我如果是我現在的需求的話"},{"start":4043.03,"end":4047.03,"text":"我會認為我們這個是一個非常好的理想"},{"start":4047.03,"end":4048.03,"text":"應該要前進"},{"start":4048.03,"end":4052.03,"text":"但我會要求的是在我實驗教育的部分"},{"start":4052.03,"end":4054.03,"text":"你先讓我有更多的資源"},{"start":4054.03,"end":4056.03,"text":"比如說在師資培訓的部分"},{"start":4056.03,"end":4059.03,"text":"能不能有更多的誘因讓年輕人願意擔任"},{"start":4059.03,"end":4062.03,"text":"或者是承襲了族語的這個部分"},{"start":4062.03,"end":4064.03,"text":"然後甚至願意來當老師"},{"start":4064.03,"end":4066.03,"text":"先補足我實驗教育的這一塊"},{"start":4066.03,"end":4069.03,"text":"我連得拉奶那樣找老師其實也不是容易的事情了"},{"start":4069.03,"end":4070.03,"text":"這是第一個嘛"},{"start":4070.03,"end":4073.03,"text":"第二一般老師但是還不會足以的"},{"start":4073.03,"end":4077.03,"text":"是不是也有其他的誘因願意加入這間學校"},{"start":4077.03,"end":4078.03,"text":"我有很多一般的人"},{"start":4078.03,"end":4080.03,"text":"我們新北的很多其他地區的人"},{"start":4080.03,"end":4083.03,"text":"也願意到山上去跟孩子們相處"},{"start":4083.03,"end":4085.03,"text":"就覺得那裡非常愉快嘛"},{"start":4085.03,"end":4086.03,"text":"所以這個部分能不能有誘因"},{"start":4086.03,"end":4090.03,"text":"先補足那裡的學校師資資源"},{"start":4090.03,"end":4092.03,"text":"這是第一件事情"},{"start":4092.03,"end":4094.03,"text":"第二件事情因為我已經占用到下一位委員的時間了"},{"start":4095.03,"end":4096.030000000001,"text":"第二件事情的話是"},{"start":4096.030000000001,"end":4099.030000000001,"text":"我認為在課程的設計上面不是只有大學的部分而已"},{"start":4099.030000000001,"end":4102.030000000001,"text":"它應該是可以有區域性的策略聯盟"},{"start":4102.030000000001,"end":4104.030000000001,"text":"比如說再說一次我的得拉奶"},{"start":4104.030000000001,"end":4106.030000000001,"text":"我的得拉奶是泰雅的孩子"},{"start":4106.030000000001,"end":4108.030000000001,"text":"那我們最近的部分是在哪裡"},{"start":4108.030000000001,"end":4110.030000000001,"text":"是反而是在新竹啊"},{"start":4110.030000000001,"end":4111.030000000001,"text":"新竹的堅實鄉"},{"start":4111.030000000001,"end":4112.030000000001,"text":"所以稍微遠一點"},{"start":4112.030000000001,"end":4116.030000000001,"text":"但我們的課程其實應該是跟新竹的泰雅共用"},{"start":4116.030000000001,"end":4119.030000000001,"text":"這反而會是一個比較合理的狀態"},{"start":4119.030000000001,"end":4123.030000000001,"text":"所以我的策略聯盟應該是把同族別"},{"start":4123.03,"end":4128.03,"text":"但地理位置上相對於相較與還是相對較近的部分"},{"start":4128.03,"end":4130.03,"text":"有沒有辦法您再給一點資源"},{"start":4130.03,"end":4132.03,"text":"讓我們勾起來啦"},{"start":4132.03,"end":4134.03,"text":"讓我們可以聚在一起"},{"start":4134.03,"end":4138.03,"text":"我覺得這樣的發展課程設計可能會相對是好一點的狀況"},{"start":4138.03,"end":4140.03,"text":"以上是我提的兩個具體的建議"},{"start":4141.54,"end":4143.54,"text":"不曉得"},{"start":4142.67,"end":4144.67,"text":"不曉得對兩位這邊能不能做個回應"},{"start":4144.67,"end":4146.67,"text":"我們質詢就到這邊"},{"start":4146.67,"end":4148.67,"text":"委員等一下說實驗教育的部分"},{"start":4148.67,"end":4150.67,"text":"我們會朝這個方向"},{"start":4150.67,"end":4152.67,"text":"就是說你剛發現國小有39所"},{"start":4152.67,"end":4154.67,"text":"國中會變少"},{"start":4154.67,"end":4157.67,"text":"那很多就可能他必須透過委員講那個聯盟"},{"start":4157.67,"end":4159.67,"text":"用專班的方式"},{"start":4159.67,"end":4161.67,"text":"就近在那個學校裡面成立"},{"start":4161.67,"end":4163.67,"text":"這個部分我們跟原民會繼續來討論"},{"start":4164.6,"end":4166.6,"text":"謝謝委員這個提點"},{"start":4166.6,"end":4169.6,"text":"其實委員講的部分事實上會裡面也都在逐步在進行"},{"start":4169.6,"end":4172.6,"text":"不管時事的培育我們用公費的方式"},{"start":4172.6,"end":4174.6,"text":"或者是說跟部落的文化的結合"},{"start":4174.6,"end":4176.6,"text":"課程的設計"},{"start":4176.6,"end":4178.6,"text":"還有剛剛軟硬體的部分"},{"start":4178.6,"end":4181.6,"text":"其實我們有一些階段性的計畫都在進行中"},{"start":4181.6,"end":4184.6,"text":"我們希望能夠達成完備以後才能夠去"},{"start":4184.6,"end":4187.6,"text":"您能不能把這個您剛剛所提到的您支持的這個部分"},{"start":4187.6,"end":4189.6,"text":"所有有相關計畫能夠有講補助的"},{"start":4189.6,"end":4191.6,"text":"不管是教育部還是原民會"},{"start":4191.6,"end":4193.6,"text":"能夠對剛剛提到的方向部分"},{"start":4193.6,"end":4196.6,"text":"有任何講補助的都送一份資料到我們辦公室來"},{"start":4196.6,"end":4200.6,"text":"我的結論是我支持可以有原住民族學校"},{"start":4200.6,"end":4206.6,"text":"但我要求在現階段更大力的支持原住民族實驗教育學校"},{"start":4206.6,"end":4208.6,"text":"請告訴我們支持的方向"},{"start":4208.6,"end":4209.6,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4211.25,"end":4214.25,"text":"好 謝謝蘇巧慧委員的質詢"},{"start":4214.25,"end":4216.25,"text":"請次長副主委回座"},{"start":4217.46,"end":4220.46,"text":"接下來我們有請王美慧委員進行詢答"},{"start":4226.12,"end":4228.12,"text":"出席咱家"},{"start":4228.52,"end":4230.52,"text":"正是剛剛的副主委"},{"start":4234.14,"end":4235.14,"text":"好"},{"start":4235.37,"end":4237.37,"text":"有請正是副主委"},{"start":4239.03,"end":4246.03,"text":"今天所要講的就是原住民族學生的草案"},{"start":4246.03,"end":4248.03,"text":"在這個過程中"},{"start":4248.03,"end":4250.03,"text":"我們都覺得說"},{"start":4250.24,"end":4253.24,"text":"主要的核心"},{"start":4253.24,"end":4255.24,"text":"在學校的時候"},{"start":4255.24,"end":4257.24,"text":"我們都來用"},{"start":4257.24,"end":4259.24,"text":"民族原住民義"},{"start":4260.36,"end":4262.36,"text":"在這個過程中"},{"start":4262.36,"end":4264.36,"text":"我們都覺得說"},{"start":4264.04,"end":4266.04,"text":"我們用母語的時候"},{"start":4266.04,"end":4270.04,"text":"一邊學習各項的體識"},{"start":4270.04,"end":4273.04,"text":"又要學我們本身"},{"start":4274.32,"end":4277.32,"text":"在這個過程中"},{"start":4277.32,"end":4278.32,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":4279.46,"end":4280.46,"text":"都來不及了"},{"start":4281.91,"end":4283.91,"text":"因為在這個過程中"},{"start":4283.91,"end":4284.91,"text":"我們都覺得說"},{"start":4284.91,"end":4286.91,"text":"越來越多人"},{"start":4288.24,"end":4289.24,"text":"Boy oh"},{"start":4289.64,"end":4291.64,"text":"不過在這個過程中"},{"start":4292.68,"end":4294.68,"text":"難受過"},{"start":4299.93,"end":4301.93,"text":"在這個過程中"},{"start":4303.81,"end":4304.81,"text":"有的都想說"},{"start":4304.81,"end":4306.81,"text":"到我去專門去打的"},{"start":4306.81,"end":4309.81,"text":"乾脆我的交通也不方便"},{"start":4310.94,"end":4314.94,"text":"我的生活在附近的學校"},{"start":4314.94,"end":4317.94,"text":"也沒有做這個規劃的時候"},{"start":4317.94,"end":4319.94,"text":"我們的原住民的孩子"},{"start":4321.43,"end":4324.43,"text":"會跟普通的學校"},{"start":4324.43,"end":4326.43,"text":"做會談的時候"},{"start":4326.43,"end":4328.43,"text":"我們有如何"},{"start":4328.43,"end":4329.43,"text":"要給這些孩子"},{"start":4329.43,"end":4333.43,"text":"可以讓我們的母語保存下去"},{"start":4333.43,"end":4335.43,"text":"來請回答一下"},{"start":4336.72,"end":4337.72,"text":"我想我們現在有一個"},{"start":4337.72,"end":4338.72,"text":"族語的推動"},{"start":4338.72,"end":4341.72,"text":"那有些學校都會有"},{"start":4341.72,"end":4343.72,"text":"不管是各族群在都市"},{"start":4343.72,"end":4345.72,"text":"我們盡可能的做到"},{"start":4345.72,"end":4346.72,"text":"只要有學生"},{"start":4346.72,"end":4347.72,"text":"我們就要有族語老師"},{"start":4347.72,"end":4348.72,"text":"來輔導他"},{"start":4348.72,"end":4349.72,"text":"那委員講的沒有錯"},{"start":4349.72,"end":4352.72,"text":"原住民學生確實會很辛苦"},{"start":4352.72,"end":4354.72,"text":"他要學習自己的文化語言"},{"start":4354.72,"end":4356.72,"text":"還要學習一般的課程"},{"start":4356.72,"end":4357.72,"text":"這個也是在推動"},{"start":4357.72,"end":4358.72,"text":"原住民族學校"},{"start":4358.72,"end":4360.72,"text":"我們必須去考慮如何兼顧"},{"start":4360.72,"end":4361.72,"text":"他的確有很大的難度"},{"start":4361.72,"end":4362.72,"text":"在不管語言上"},{"start":4362.72,"end":4363.72,"text":"未來的教學什麼"},{"start":4363.72,"end":4365.72,"text":"這個都是我們會去考慮的"},{"start":4365.72,"end":4366.72,"text":"謝謝委員的提點"},{"start":4366.72,"end":4367.72,"text":"但是對族語的部分"},{"start":4367.72,"end":4368.72,"text":"事實上我們已經"},{"start":4368.72,"end":4371.72,"text":"透過了什麼族語保密"},{"start":4371.72,"end":4373.72,"text":"曾經是教學很多的方式"},{"start":4373.72,"end":4376.72,"text":"去讓我們的學生能夠學習族語"},{"start":4376.72,"end":4377.72,"text":"這個部分是做得比較徹底"},{"start":4377.72,"end":4379.72,"text":"自己其他課程的部分"},{"start":4379.72,"end":4381.72,"text":"可能還要再有一些努力"},{"start":4381.72,"end":4382.72,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4382.72,"end":4385.72,"text":"因為副主委跟我們的政事"},{"start":4385.72,"end":4388.72,"text":"本身跟你們談到的就是說"},{"start":4388.72,"end":4391.72,"text":"我們的屬於教育的"},{"start":4392.42,"end":4394.42,"text":"在這個過程當中"},{"start":4394.42,"end":4398.42,"text":"在這個教育法第34條裡面"},{"start":4398.42,"end":4400.42,"text":"我們最主要的就是"},{"start":4400.42,"end":4406.42,"text":"重點要來我們的老師評價"},{"start":4406.42,"end":4408.42,"text":"但是在這個過程"},{"start":4408.42,"end":4410.42,"text":"我們是所了解"},{"start":4410.38,"end":4412.38,"text":"來點老師"},{"start":4412.44,"end":4414.44,"text":"不就"},{"start":4414.06,"end":4417.06,"text":"這個不就是越來越嚴重"},{"start":4417.06,"end":4421.06,"text":"所以政治你是不是可以提出"},{"start":4421.06,"end":4423.06,"text":"你的什麼想法"},{"start":4423.06,"end":4426.06,"text":"可以加強這些師生"},{"start":4426.06,"end":4428.06,"text":"可以給這些孩子"},{"start":4428.06,"end":4431.06,"text":"比较好學生"},{"start":4431.06,"end":4434.06,"text":"我們現在大概教育部"},{"start":4434.06,"end":4436.06,"text":"有配合提供四支培育法裡面"},{"start":4436.06,"end":4438.06,"text":"有關之前培育課程的基準"},{"start":4438.06,"end":4441.06,"text":"這個基準裡面就包含本土語文"},{"start":4441.06,"end":4443.06,"text":"原住民族語文專長"},{"start":4443.06,"end":4446.06,"text":"以及民族教育次專長的專門課程"},{"start":4446.06,"end":4448.06,"text":"這是第一個部分"},{"start":4448.06,"end":4451.06,"text":"我們也會提供原民會來做參考"},{"start":4451.06,"end":4453.06,"text":"來確保四支品質"},{"start":4453.06,"end":4454.06,"text":"跟整個體系的銜接"},{"start":4454.06,"end":4455.06,"text":"那第二個部分是"},{"start":4455.06,"end":4456.06,"text":"我們也納入了"},{"start":4456.06,"end":4459.06,"text":"之前的培育課程基準的本土語文"},{"start":4459.06,"end":4461.06,"text":"就是原住民族的專門課程"},{"start":4461.06,"end":4464.06,"text":"以及原住民族之民族教育次專長"},{"start":4464.06,"end":4466.06,"text":"專門課程的架構表"},{"start":4466.06,"end":4468.06,"text":"也來結合公費制度"},{"start":4468.06,"end":4471.06,"text":"來擇九所失陪的大學專案的補助"},{"start":4471.06,"end":4474.06,"text":"辦理原住民族四支培育學分班"},{"start":4474.06,"end":4477.06,"text":"來提供原住民公費升級四支升"},{"start":4478.28,"end":4482.28,"text":"免學分休息的族語"},{"start":4482.28,"end":4484.28,"text":"以及民族教育的相關課程"},{"start":4484.28,"end":4486.28,"text":"這是第二個部分"},{"start":4486.28,"end":4488.28,"text":"那第三個部分是"},{"start":4488.28,"end":4490.28,"text":"有一些沒有教師資格的族語老師"},{"start":4490.28,"end":4493.28,"text":"以及代理教師的進修資格管道的部分"},{"start":4493.28,"end":4496.28,"text":"我們也是從109年開始"},{"start":4496.28,"end":4499.28,"text":"就開設了中小學本土語文原住民族"},{"start":4500.61,"end":4503.61,"text":"語文專長的學士後教育學分班"},{"start":4503.61,"end":4506.61,"text":"來提供給現職以及非現職的族語老師"},{"start":4506.61,"end":4508.61,"text":"以及族語教學資源工作人員"},{"start":4508.61,"end":4512.61,"text":"就他們可能沒有一般師資的培育的資格"},{"start":4512.61,"end":4514.61,"text":"可是我們會開這個專班"},{"start":4514.61,"end":4516.61,"text":"讓這些包括代理教師等等"},{"start":4516.61,"end":4519.61,"text":"這些族語老師或者是資源工作的"},{"start":4519.61,"end":4521.61,"text":"這些族語老師能夠鼓勵他們在職進修"},{"start":4521.61,"end":4523.61,"text":"也給他獎助金"},{"start":4523.61,"end":4526.61,"text":"那最後就是我們有關合格教師的話"},{"start":4526.61,"end":4528.61,"text":"就是他現在合格教師"},{"start":4528.61,"end":4530.61,"text":"他怎麼去修這個"},{"start":4530.61,"end":4535.61,"text":"有關相關的原住民族的教育相關的一些課程"},{"start":4535.61,"end":4538.61,"text":"就是我們從111年就開始來開設"},{"start":4538.61,"end":4541.61,"text":"原住民族民族教育次專長教師"},{"start":4541.61,"end":4543.61,"text":"就是讓現在的合格教師再加一個"},{"start":4543.61,"end":4545.61,"text":"原住民族教育的次專長"},{"start":4545.61,"end":4547.61,"text":"在此進修學分班"},{"start":4547.61,"end":4552.61,"text":"來提升現職老師對原住民族教育的這個民族教育資能"},{"start":4554.16,"end":4556.16,"text":"在這個規定當中"},{"start":4556.16,"end":4560.16,"text":"我覺得要花這麼多時間讓你去解釋"},{"start":4560.16,"end":4564.16,"text":"因為有很多原住民的像是"},{"start":4564.16,"end":4565.16,"text":"自己也好"},{"start":4565.16,"end":4566.16,"text":"他住在阿里山"},{"start":4566.16,"end":4571.16,"text":"但是他的孩子都忙著在家裡去上課"},{"start":4571.16,"end":4574.16,"text":"所以在這個規定的時候"},{"start":4574.16,"end":4577.16,"text":"是要跟政治局副主委說"},{"start":4577.16,"end":4582.16,"text":"我們要怎麼樣讓他的原住民的孩子"},{"start":4582.16,"end":4584.16,"text":"可以再多一點"},{"start":4584.16,"end":4586.16,"text":"因為我們看到他們"},{"start":4586.16,"end":4590.16,"text":"沒有要進來學來讀書的時候"},{"start":4590.16,"end":4592.16,"text":"是非常辛苦"},{"start":4592.16,"end":4594.16,"text":"但是他的長輩"},{"start":4594.16,"end":4596.16,"text":"有希望他的孩子"},{"start":4596.16,"end":4601.16,"text":"可以獲得他本身的母乙"},{"start":4601.16,"end":4604.16,"text":"還可以來教自己去"},{"start":4604.16,"end":4606.16,"text":"上學的學校"},{"start":4606.16,"end":4607.16,"text":"可以融入"},{"start":4607.16,"end":4610.16,"text":"所以在這個規定當中"},{"start":4610.16,"end":4612.16,"text":"是非常辛苦"},{"start":4612.16,"end":4615.16,"text":"我們也有他們的母乙"},{"start":4615.16,"end":4617.16,"text":"還是要學的"},{"start":4617.39,"end":4619.39,"text":"可以再學做"},{"start":4619.39,"end":4621.39,"text":"這是最重要的"},{"start":4621.6,"end":4622.6,"text":"副主委"},{"start":4622.6,"end":4624.6,"text":"因為在這個規定當中"},{"start":4625.01,"end":4628.01,"text":"家裡沒有很多原住民"},{"start":4628.01,"end":4633.01,"text":"但是家裡有很多原住民"},{"start":4633.01,"end":4636.01,"text":"孩子會在家裡讀書"},{"start":4636.01,"end":4638.01,"text":"是非常多"},{"start":4638.01,"end":4641.01,"text":"所以副主委你是不是可以"},{"start":4641.01,"end":4642.01,"text":"分心會跟他說"},{"start":4642.01,"end":4649.01,"text":"要怎麼樣讓他們可以到位學生"},{"start":4649.01,"end":4650.01,"text":"這是很重要的"},{"start":4651.59,"end":4652.59,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":4652.59,"end":4654.59,"text":"就是針對主語學習的部分"},{"start":4654.59,"end":4657.59,"text":"到都會地區原住民的學生"},{"start":4657.59,"end":4660.59,"text":"原則上只要是有原住民學生在學校"},{"start":4660.59,"end":4662.59,"text":"我們都會有主語老師協助"},{"start":4662.59,"end":4664.59,"text":"來去教授他的主語"},{"start":4664.59,"end":4666.59,"text":"當然會有一個兩個或是閃的"},{"start":4666.59,"end":4668.59,"text":"其實也有線上的教學"},{"start":4668.59,"end":4669.59,"text":"我們也推動"},{"start":4669.59,"end":4671.59,"text":"盡可能的做到不要遺漏"},{"start":4671.59,"end":4673.59,"text":"任何一個原住民學生"},{"start":4673.59,"end":4675.59,"text":"在母乙的學習上盡可能的"},{"start":4675.59,"end":4677.59,"text":"分析就是反而說"},{"start":4677.59,"end":4679.59,"text":"遺漏他啦"},{"start":4679.59,"end":4682.59,"text":"所以不可能說遺漏他"},{"start":4683,"end":4685,"text":"到他四月初的時候"},{"start":4685,"end":4687,"text":"他學校也要清"},{"start":4687,"end":4689,"text":"我們也不可能說"},{"start":4689,"end":4691,"text":"兩三個我們就是評價"},{"start":4692.19,"end":4694.19,"text":"我們的師生要學校"},{"start":4694.19,"end":4696.19,"text":"學校會考慮成本的問題"},{"start":4696.19,"end":4697.19,"text":"對啦"},{"start":4697.19,"end":4699.19,"text":"但是我說給他們補助"},{"start":4699.19,"end":4701.19,"text":"我們教的孩子"},{"start":4701.19,"end":4705.19,"text":"不管是生命值的都一樣"},{"start":4705.19,"end":4709.19,"text":"不能用本身的投資力"},{"start":4709.19,"end":4711.19,"text":"報酬力這樣來算"},{"start":4711.19,"end":4713.19,"text":"我們要了解嘛"},{"start":4713.19,"end":4714.19,"text":"要啦"},{"start":4714.19,"end":4716.19,"text":"我們那些孩子的母乙"},{"start":4716.19,"end":4719.19,"text":"教學生都要教下去"},{"start":4719.19,"end":4721.19,"text":"如果這不可以算"},{"start":4721.19,"end":4722.19,"text":"投資了解"},{"start":4722.19,"end":4724.19,"text":"這是未來我們台灣"},{"start":4725.55,"end":4727.55,"text":"要考這些年輕人"},{"start":4727.55,"end":4728.55,"text":"跟我們的原住民"},{"start":4728.55,"end":4729.55,"text":"這是最重要的"},{"start":4729.55,"end":4730.55,"text":"我給你們報告"},{"start":4730.55,"end":4732.55,"text":"我們現在108課綱"},{"start":4732.55,"end":4733.55,"text":"已經有納入"},{"start":4733.55,"end":4735.55,"text":"原住民族的族語也是本土語言"},{"start":4735.55,"end":4737.55,"text":"所以在各級學校都有開設"},{"start":4737.55,"end":4739.55,"text":"目前高國中小"},{"start":4739.55,"end":4741.55,"text":"大概有休息族語的"},{"start":4741.55,"end":4743.55,"text":"學生人次在五萬多人"},{"start":4743.55,"end":4744.55,"text":"那剛才委員關心的是說"},{"start":4744.55,"end":4745.55,"text":"如果比較少的那些"},{"start":4745.55,"end":4747.55,"text":"我們會開設直播共學"},{"start":4747.55,"end":4749.55,"text":"這在當"},{"start":4749.55,"end":4751.55,"text":"在關注原住民學校成立的同時"},{"start":4751.55,"end":4753.55,"text":"其實這個非常重要"},{"start":4753.55,"end":4755.55,"text":"就是讓他的族語"},{"start":4755.55,"end":4757.55,"text":"就是委員所講的母語"},{"start":4757.55,"end":4758.55,"text":"能夠沒有斷掉"},{"s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"end":4988.61,"text":"原住民族的"},{"start":4988.61,"end":4990.61,"text":"這個基礎的語言的"},{"start":4990.61,"end":4992.61,"text":"的上課了"},{"start":4993.65,"end":4995.65,"text":"那你們未來的新住民學校"},{"start":4995.65,"end":4997.65,"text":"跟現在的是有多大的不同"},{"start":4997.65,"end":4999.65,"text":"好這個我請右張會跟委員說明好不好"},{"start":4999.65,"end":5001.65,"text":"好"},{"start":5004.18,"end":5006.18,"text":"好跟委員報告"},{"start":5006.18,"end":5008.18,"text":"有關未來原民族學校的想像"},{"start":5008.18,"end":5010.18,"text":"其實陳農委員剛才所提示的沒有錯"},{"start":5010.18,"end":5012.18,"text":"其實陳農委員剛才所提示的沒有錯"},{"start":5012.18,"end":5014.18,"text":"目前也有四十六所的原住民學校"},{"start":5014.18,"end":5016.18,"text":"那為什麼要"},{"start":5016.18,"end":5018.18,"text":"你講重點就好"},{"start":5018.18,"end":5020.18,"text":"不要跟我講理論"},{"start":5020.18,"end":5022.18,"text":"時間沒那麼多"},{"start":5022.18,"end":5024.18,"text":"就是說未來的民族學校"},{"start":5024.18,"end":5026.18,"text":"我們希望它是應用我們"},{"start":5026.18,"end":5028.18,"text":"高級中等學校"},{"start":5028.18,"end":5030.18,"text":"委託民間辦學的實驗學校條例"},{"start":5030.18,"end":5032.18,"text":"來跟地方政府合作"},{"start":5032.18,"end":5034.18,"text":"將我們目前在各縣市"},{"start":5034.18,"end":5036.18,"text":"政府相關的民族"},{"start":5036.18,"end":5038.18,"text":"實驗學校我們來把它做轉型"},{"start":5038.18,"end":5040.18,"text":"就是未來的民族學校會是現在"},{"start":5040.18,"end":5042.18,"text":"實驗學校的2.0版"},{"start":5042.45,"end":5044.45,"text":"對嘛是升級嘛"},{"start":5044.45,"end":5046.45,"text":"對不對好那再來我問一下"},{"start":5046.45,"end":5048.45,"text":"那如果我們的原住民的"},{"start":5048.45,"end":5050.45,"text":"的小朋友我們念"},{"start":5050.45,"end":5052.45,"text":"這個"},{"start":5052.45,"end":5054.45,"text":"原住民的學校"},{"start":5054.45,"end":5056.45,"text":"未來升學的管道的銜接"},{"start":5056.45,"end":5058.45,"text":"你們有沒有規劃了"},{"start":5058.45,"end":5060.45,"text":"其實它現在目前整個學制都跟目前"},{"start":5060.45,"end":5062.45,"text":"的國民教會階段的學制是完全"},{"start":5062.45,"end":5064.45,"text":"沒有只是它實施的課程"},{"start":5064.45,"end":5066.45,"text":"教材會跟一般"},{"start":5066.45,"end":5068.45,"text":"108課跟目前的學校"},{"start":5068.45,"end":5070.45,"text":"不一樣而已"},{"start":5070.12,"end":5072.12,"text":"它的升學管道完全一模一樣"},{"start":5072.12,"end":5074.12,"text":"對不是"},{"start":5074.12,"end":5076.12,"text":"課綱裡面有不一樣嘛"},{"start":5076.12,"end":5078.12,"text":"如何跟升學管道的銜接"},{"start":5078.12,"end":5080.12,"text":"其實它只是課程跟教材的設計"},{"start":5080.12,"end":5082.12,"text":"不同原住民學校希望是透過"},{"start":5082.12,"end":5084.12,"text":"他學習自己的母體文化"},{"start":5084.12,"end":5086.12,"text":"跟他的學科知識做"},{"start":5086.12,"end":5088.12,"text":"整合來提升他的學習"},{"start":5088.12,"end":5090.12,"text":"的成效所以他基本上"},{"start":5090.12,"end":5092.12,"text":"他的整個學習的"},{"start":5092.12,"end":5094.12,"text":"想法精神都是一樣只是"},{"start":5094.12,"end":5096.12,"text":"課程教材教法不一樣"},{"start":5096.79,"end":5098.79,"text":"教法不一樣"},{"start":5098.79,"end":5100.79,"text":"那你們的師資都準備好了嗎"},{"start":5100.79,"end":5102.79,"text":"師資我們同步有在做培訓"},{"start":5102.79,"end":5104.79,"text":"不不不"},{"start":5104.79,"end":5106.79,"text":"就是未來 培訓是一件事"},{"start":5106.79,"end":5108.79,"text":"準備好了"},{"start":5108.79,"end":5110.79,"text":"這個法案如果通過的話"},{"start":5110.79,"end":5112.79,"text":"可能你就馬上要做了"},{"start":5112.79,"end":5114.79,"text":"現在我們的師資"},{"start":5114.79,"end":5116.79,"text":"都是用現職的教師"},{"start":5116.79,"end":5118.79,"text":"來做我們未來民主學校的"},{"start":5118.79,"end":5120.79,"text":"師資的最主要來源"},{"start":5120.79,"end":5122.79,"text":"那同步未來的民主學校的正式教師"},{"start":5122.79,"end":5124.79,"text":"他同是我們會"},{"start":5124.79,"end":5126.79,"text":"讓他來實施整個民族文化的"},{"start":5126.79,"end":5128.79,"text":"課程的培訓"},{"start":5128.79,"end":5130.79,"text":"讓他能夠同時擔任"},{"start":5130.79,"end":5132.79,"text":"學科跟文化整合的師資"},{"start":5134.65,"end":5136.65,"text":"聽你們這樣講"},{"start":5136.65,"end":5138.65,"text":"是有這個目標"},{"start":5138.65,"end":5140.65,"text":"其實還沒有充分準備好"},{"start":5140.65,"end":5142.65,"text":"我們現在第一所的民主學校"},{"start":5142.65,"end":5144.65,"text":"在8月31日要開辦就是在高雄市"},{"start":5144.65,"end":5146.65,"text":"的新中國小"},{"start":5146.65,"end":5148.65,"text":"那是示範"},{"start":5148.65,"end":5150.65,"text":"這不是示範"},{"start":5150.65,"end":5152.65,"text":"這就是第一所推動的"},{"start":5152.65,"end":5154.65,"text":"我剛剛講的是你們17組都要設立"},{"start":5154.65,"end":5156.65,"text":"你就要17個以上"},{"start":5158.63,"end":5160.63,"text":"都準備好了嗎"},{"start":5160.63,"end":5162.63,"text":"我們要逐年來推動"},{"start":5162.63,"end":5164.63,"text":"不是說一次到二十幾所"},{"start":5164.63,"end":5166.63,"text":"就是我們逐年跟市府的合作"},{"start":5166.63,"end":5168.63,"text":"你怎麼可以說"},{"start":5168.63,"end":5170.63,"text":"我們的法令如果通過的話"},{"start":5170.63,"end":5172.63,"text":"我們要求你馬上辦"},{"start":5172.63,"end":5174.63,"text":"你現在跟我講"},{"start":5174.63,"end":5176.63,"text":"逐年來推動"},{"start":5178.85,"end":5180.85,"text":"法令如果過是要馬上辦"},{"start":5180.85,"end":5182.85,"text":"就算法令通過"},{"start":5182.85,"end":5184.85,"text":"我們也是沒有辦法說一次全部到位"},{"start":5184.85,"end":5186.85,"text":"我們還是要依據整個"},{"start":5186.85,"end":5188.85,"text":"課程發展"},{"start":5188.85,"end":5190.85,"text":"所以我說你們17個"},{"start":5190.85,"end":5192.85,"text":"根本完全沒有準備好"},{"start":5192.85,"end":5194.85,"text":"我們法令通過你跟我講說"},{"start":5194.85,"end":5196.85,"text":"你要逐年推動"},{"start":5196.85,"end":5198.85,"text":"把我們立法委員當什麼"},{"start":5198.85,"end":5200.85,"text":"法立法院當什麼"},{"start":5201.04,"end":5203.04,"text":"這個不是很好笑的一件事情嗎"},{"start":5205.92,"end":5207.92,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5208.06,"end":5210.06,"text":"你回答我"},{"start":5210.06,"end":5212.06,"text":"我還是覺得說法律"},{"start":5212.06,"end":5214.06,"text":"只是取得一個設這個學校"},{"start":5214.06,"end":5216.06,"text":"法院的意趣"},{"start":5216.06,"end":5218.06,"text":"跟設置的集成"},{"start":5218.06,"end":5220.06,"text":"話不是這樣講喔"},{"start":5220.06,"end":5222.06,"text":"法律就是讓你要執行就執行"},{"start":5222.06,"end":5224.06,"text":"你不執行就不執行喔"},{"start":5224.06,"end":5226.06,"text":"這很好笑耶"},{"start":5226.06,"end":5228.06,"text":"我覺得啦"},{"start":5228.06,"end":5230.06,"text":"我今天不是要說你們沒有準備好"},{"start":5230.06,"end":5232.06,"text":"你們沒有準備好"},{"start":5232.06,"end":5234.06,"text":"本來就是要慢慢準備"},{"start":5234.06,"end":5236.06,"text":"我今天要跟你們探討的"},{"start":5236.06,"end":5238.06,"text":"問題是說"},{"start":5238.06,"end":5240.06,"text":"如果都還沒有這樣完全準備好"},{"start":5240.06,"end":5242.06,"text":"如果法令馬上通過"},{"start":5242.06,"end":5244.06,"text":"你們要怎麼辦"},{"start":5244.06,"end":5246.06,"text":"你們要去想這個問題而已"},{"start":5246.06,"end":5248.06,"text":"現階段原民會的立場上"},{"start":5248.06,"end":5250.06,"text":"我們認為說現階段還不需要"},{"start":5250.06,"end":5252.06,"text":"訂到法律的這個位階"},{"start":5252.06,"end":5254.06,"text":"其實說透過現行的相關的"},{"start":5254.06,"end":5256.06,"text":"法律規定我們都可以來推動"},{"start":5256.06,"end":5258.06,"text":"這樣的一個學校的設置"},{"start":5258.06,"end":5260.06,"text":"所以你的意思是說"},{"start":5260.06,"end":5262.06,"text":"這個法案你不用"},{"start":5262.06,"end":5264.06,"text":"現階段我們還可以再討論"},{"start":5264.06,"end":5266.06,"text":"通過你們就可以執行嘛"},{"start":5266.06,"end":5268.06,"text":"反而通過之後"},{"start":5268.06,"end":5270.06,"text":"馬上要全面執行你們做不到嘛"},{"start":5270.06,"end":5272.06,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5272.06,"end":5274.06,"text":"我要問你的就是這個嘛"},{"start":5274.06,"end":5276.06,"text":"好那還有一點情形是這樣"},{"start":5276.91,"end":5278.91,"text":"不好意思那個張廖市長"},{"start":5280.29,"end":5282.29,"text":"這個原住民學校這樣推動"},{"start":5282.29,"end":5284.29,"text":"那未來"},{"start":5284.29,"end":5286.29,"text":"如果"},{"start":5286.29,"end":5288.29,"text":"我們課委會也要推動"},{"start":5288.29,"end":5290.29,"text":"課與這個學校"},{"start":5290.29,"end":5292.29,"text":"那你們教育部"},{"start":5292.29,"end":5294.29,"text":"應付的過來嗎"},{"start":5294.29,"end":5296.29,"text":"有這麼多校舍"},{"start":5296.29,"end":5298.29,"text":"有這麼多師資"},{"start":5298.29,"end":5300.29,"text":"我們就看行政院的政策"},{"start":5300.29,"end":5302.29,"text":"看政府的政策"},{"start":5302.29,"end":5304.29,"text":"如果政府政策要推動我們"},{"start":5304.29,"end":5306.29,"text":"當然教育部的立場就是配合"},{"start":5306.29,"end":5308.29,"text":"做師資培育的相關課程的設立"},{"start":5308.29,"end":5310.29,"text":"人才培育要怎麼樣"},{"start":5310.29,"end":5312.29,"text":"來銜接我們大概就配合"},{"start":5312.29,"end":5314.29,"text":"我們現在原民會的"},{"start":5314.29,"end":5316.29,"text":"我們現在是那個一般就是"},{"start":5316.29,"end":5318.29,"text":"實驗學校嘛剛才很多委員問到"},{"start":5318.29,"end":5320.29,"text":"實驗學校現在在辦"},{"start":5320.29,"end":5322.29,"text":"那他怎麼樣去累積這種"},{"start":5322.29,"end":5324.29,"text":"經驗然後"},{"start":5324.29,"end":5326.29,"text":"各組的族羽的師資"},{"start":5326.29,"end":5328.29,"text":"還有那些一般"},{"start":5328.29,"end":5330.29,"text":"學科的沒有辦法有師資的"},{"start":5330.29,"end":5332.29,"text":"他用次專長來"},{"start":5332.29,"end":5334.29,"text":"擔任來轉任"},{"start":5334.29,"end":5336.29,"text":"等等有很多方法"},{"start":5336.29,"end":5338.29,"text":"要尊重原民會他們的規劃"},{"start":5338.29,"end":5340.29,"text":"他們也考慮到整個現實的"},{"start":5340.29,"end":5342.29,"text":"狀況所以在期程的規劃"},{"start":5342.29,"end":5344.29,"text":"上可能會"},{"start":5344.29,"end":5346.29,"text":"認為說現在推動"},{"start":5346.29,"end":5348.29,"text":"直接推動原住民學校還不是那麼"},{"start":5348.29,"end":5350.29,"text":"成熟好我知道"},{"start":5350.29,"end":5352.29,"text":"市長我只是要說"},{"start":5352.29,"end":5354.29,"text":"如果這個有推動過"},{"start":5354.29,"end":5356.29,"text":"我相信你們可能要準備"},{"start":5356.29,"end":5358.29,"text":"未來的課餘"},{"start":5358.29,"end":5360.29,"text":"這個也可能師資要"},{"start":5360.29,"end":5362.29,"text":"培養要什麼的這個"},{"start":5362.29,"end":5364.29,"text":"都有可能是未來會"},{"start":5364.29,"end":5366.29,"text":"遇到的問題"},{"start":5366.29,"end":5368.29,"text":"這個可能你們也要提早準備"},{"start":5368.29,"end":5370.29,"text":"我們課綱裡面"},{"start":5370.29,"end":5372.29,"text":"其實那個本土語言裡面含怪"},{"start":5372.29,"end":5374.29,"text":"很多原住民族課餘"},{"start":5374.29,"end":5376.29,"text":"台語都都是"},{"start":5376.29,"end":5378.29,"text":"現在希拉亞族的師資"},{"start":5378.29,"end":5380.29,"text":"有培育了嗎"},{"start":5380.29,"end":5382.29,"text":"還沒嘛對不對"},{"start":5382.29,"end":5384.29,"text":"所以我的意思是說這個都要"},{"start":5384.29,"end":5386.29,"text":"很多未來如果這樣"},{"start":5386.29,"end":5388.29,"text":"未來有很多事要做"},{"start":5388.29,"end":5390.29,"text":"這種語言文化他本來就需要時間的累積"},{"start":5390.29,"end":5392.29,"text":"也要一些時間"},{"start":5392.29,"end":5394.29,"text":"對阿所以我就是要說這個"},{"start":5394.29,"end":5396.29,"text":"我們跟原民會都有校正會在做溝通聯繫"},{"start":5396.29,"end":5398.29,"text":"好啦"},{"start":5398.29,"end":5400.29,"text":"最主要是這個啦"},{"start":5402.07,"end":5404.07,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5404.07,"end":5406.07,"text":"感謝張鴻路委員執行"},{"start":5406.07,"end":5408.07,"text":"我們這裡有你發財委員執行"},{"start":5415.72,"end":5417.72,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":5417.72,"end":5419.72,"text":"有請原民會副主委"},{"start":5419.72,"end":5421.72,"text":"還有教文處長"},{"start":5421.72,"end":5423.72,"text":"以及教育部的"},{"start":5423.72,"end":5425.72,"text":"張廖岸兼次長"},{"start":5425.72,"end":5427.72,"text":"次長"},{"start":5427.71,"end":5429.71,"text":"副主委"},{"start":5429.09,"end":5431.09,"text":"好委員好"},{"start":5431.76,"end":5433.76,"text":"今天很高興"},{"start":5433.76,"end":5435.76,"text":"因為這一屆原住民族學校法"},{"start":5435.76,"end":5437.76,"text":"又開始排審了"},{"start":5437.76,"end":5439.76,"text":"但是時間已經過了一半"},{"start":5439.76,"end":5441.76,"text":"我簡單講"},{"start":5443.08,"end":5445.08,"text":"在我們的憲法其實講的很清楚"},{"start":5445.08,"end":5447.08,"text":"就是國家要積極"},{"start":5447.08,"end":5449.08,"text":"維護原住民族的語言"},{"start":5449.08,"end":5451.08,"text":"及文化的發展"},{"start":5451.08,"end":5453.08,"text":"但是我們可以看到"},{"start":5453.08,"end":5455.08,"text":"我們現在"},{"start":5455.41,"end":5457.41,"text":"每一年從蔡英文政府"},{"start":5457.41,"end":5459.41,"text":"到賴清德政府"},{"start":5459.41,"end":5461.41,"text":"特別編列了許多"},{"start":5461.41,"end":5463.41,"text":"附贈語言文化發展的經費"},{"start":5467.45,"end":5469.45,"text":"我們不可否認"},{"start":5469.1,"end":5471.1,"text":"原住民的語言"},{"start":5471.1,"end":5473.1,"text":"到底能不能夠保存"},{"start":5473.1,"end":5475.1,"text":"這個是一個非常大的問號"},{"start":5477.17,"end":5479.17,"text":"因此如果沒有透過"},{"start":5479.17,"end":5481.17,"text":"一個學校的力量"},{"start":5483.02,"end":5485.02,"text":"完全要透過社會以及家庭"},{"start":5486.62,"end":5488.62,"text":"我們想這個目標是完全無法達到的"},{"start":5490.41,"end":5492.41,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":5491.75,"end":5493.75,"text":"那個時候的原住民族教育法"},{"start":5494.68,"end":5496.68,"text":"民國78年三讀定定"},{"start":5497.84,"end":5499.84,"text":"這個部分就有特別提到了"},{"start":5500.76,"end":5502.76,"text":"各級政府要來設立"},{"start":5502.76,"end":5504.76,"text":"各級原住民族學校或"},{"start":5504.76,"end":5506.76,"text":"原住民族的教育班"},{"start":5509.35,"end":5511.35,"text":"我想這個脈絡非常的清楚"},{"start":5512.3,"end":5514.3,"text":"那當然我們很清楚知道"},{"start":5514.63,"end":5516.63,"text":"在104年的11月"},{"start":5516.63,"end":5518.63,"text":"103年的11月"},{"start":5518.63,"end":5520.63,"text":"實驗三法的通過"},{"start":5522.58,"end":5524.58,"text":"是給了原住民族"},{"start":5524.58,"end":5526.58,"text":"要發展語言"},{"start":5526.58,"end":5528.58,"text":"文化民族教育"},{"start":5528.58,"end":5530.58,"text":"一個很重要的一個契機"},{"start":5531.52,"end":5533.52,"text":"但是我們看到現在"},{"start":5533.52,"end":5535.52,"text":"雖然有幾十所"},{"start":5535.52,"end":5537.52,"text":"看起來是各族群遍地開花"},{"start":5539,"end":5541,"text":"可是我們依舊"},{"start":5541,"end":5543,"text":"沒有辦法看到"},{"start":5543,"end":5545,"text":"語言存續的希望"},{"start":5545.16,"end":5547.16,"text":"可是我們很肯定"},{"start":5547.16,"end":5549.16,"text":"我們這些年走來"},{"start":5549.16,"end":5551.16,"text":"我自己也一直努力"},{"start":5550.64,"end":5552.64,"text":"我們的民族教育文化的發展"},{"start":5552.64,"end":5554.64,"text":"確實有在原住民族"},{"start":5554.64,"end":5556.64,"text":"實驗學校我們有看到"},{"start":5556.64,"end":5558.64,"text":"這樣的一個成果"},{"start":5558.64,"end":5560.64,"text":"也累積了一定的能量"},{"start":5561.27,"end":5563.27,"text":"所以在這裡"},{"start":5562.94,"end":5564.94,"text":"既然國家給我們"},{"start":5564.94,"end":5566.94,"text":"這樣的一個目標"},{"start":5567.08,"end":5569.08,"text":"我們也有了原住民族教育法"},{"start":5569.08,"end":5571.08,"text":"來做法源依據要設效"},{"start":5571.08,"end":5573.08,"text":"我們來看一下"},{"start":5574.25,"end":5576.25,"text":"科學園區設置管理條例"},{"start":5576.25,"end":5578.25,"text":"他的法源是來自於"},{"start":5578.25,"end":5580.25,"text":"高級中等教育法第十一條"},{"start":5581.08,"end":5583.08,"text":"所以新竹科學園區"},{"start":5583.08,"end":5585.08,"text":"他也可以來申請設效"},{"start":5587.04,"end":5589.04,"text":"但是沒有規定他"},{"start":5589.04,"end":5591.04,"text":"到底要設幾效"},{"start":5590.63,"end":5592.63,"text":"因為有了法源依據"},{"start":5592.63,"end":5594.63,"text":"你符合資格你就來申請"},{"start":5596.22,"end":5598.22,"text":"所以像我們的警察大學"},{"start":5598.22,"end":5600.22,"text":"警察專科學校一樣"},{"start":5600.22,"end":5602.22,"text":"他是透過警察法"},{"start":5603.34,"end":5605.34,"text":"來去做設立"},{"start":5605.3,"end":5607.3,"text":"所以今天"},{"start":5607.3,"end":5609.3,"text":"如果我們有了原住民族學校法"},{"start":5609.3,"end":5611.3,"text":"他到底為了要解決什麼問題"},{"start":5611.3,"end":5613.3,"text":"我想非常的清楚"},{"start":5613.3,"end":5615.3,"text":"因為"},{"start":5615.3,"end":5617.3,"text":"我們第一個"},{"start":5617.3,"end":5619.3,"text":"原住民族委員會"},{"start":5619.3,"end":5621.3,"text":"到底能不能辦學校"},{"start":5621.43,"end":5623.43,"text":"次長您告訴我能不能辦學校"},{"start":5623.43,"end":5625.43,"text":"當然可以"},{"start":5625.43,"end":5627.43,"text":"那原民會你們願不願意辦學校"},{"start":5630.16,"end":5632.16,"text":"當然在這個資源人力是充足的之下"},{"start":5632.16,"end":5634.16,"text":"是可以"},{"start":5634.16,"end":5636.16,"text":"如果說以現行這樣看是有他的難度"},{"start":5636.16,"end":5638.16,"text":"你們也願意辦學校"},{"start":5638.16,"end":5640.16,"text":"你們也有法源依據"},{"start":5640.16,"end":5642.16,"text":"也規定你們應該要辦學校對不對"},{"start":5642.27,"end":5644.27,"text":"好"},{"start":5644.27,"end":5646.27,"text":"那現在問題來了"},{"start":5646.27,"end":5648.27,"text":"我剛剛一直講語言這個東西是跟時間賽跑"},{"start":5649.41,"end":5651.41,"text":"我在15年前"},{"start":5651.96,"end":5653.96,"text":"我在15年前"},{"start":5654.22,"end":5656.22,"text":"如果那個時候可以有原住民族學校法"},{"start":5656.22,"end":5658.22,"text":"我們今天應該"},{"start":5658.22,"end":5660.22,"text":"已經可以看到"},{"start":5660.99,"end":5662.99,"text":"在中華民國有一所學校"},{"start":5662.99,"end":5664.99,"text":"學生畢了業走出去"},{"start":5664.99,"end":5666.99,"text":"每一個都會講族語"},{"start":5667.65,"end":5669.65,"text":"我們應該已經可以看到"},{"start":5670.42,"end":5672.42,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":5672.17,"end":5674.17,"text":"因為在那個時候"},{"start":5673.98,"end":5675.98,"text":"我們在屏東縣"},{"start":5675.68,"end":5677.68,"text":"我還找得到"},{"start":5677.73,"end":5681.73,"text":"具備非常良好族語能力的教師"},{"start":5682.77,"end":5684.77,"text":"我講的是一般教師"},{"start":5685.29,"end":5687.29,"text":"專任教師"},{"start":5687.99,"end":5689.99,"text":"我至少那個時候"},{"start":5689.99,"end":5691.99,"text":"我們屏東縣還能夠湊個"},{"start":5691.99,"end":5693.99,"text":"至少三間學校"},{"start":5694.13,"end":5696.13,"text":"有足夠的師資量"},{"start":5696.86,"end":5698.86,"text":"但是15年之後"},{"start":5699.33,"end":5701.33,"text":"到底能不能湊成一間學校我都不知道"},{"start":5702.95,"end":5704.95,"text":"因為我們想要做的失陪"},{"start":5705.79,"end":5707.79,"text":"速度跟不上"},{"start":5708.52,"end":5710.52,"text":"但是如果我們15年前就做了"},{"start":5711.04,"end":5713.04,"text":"我相信這樣的孩子"},{"start":5713.04,"end":5715.04,"text":"他已經可以站到教室"},{"start":5715.04,"end":5717.04,"text":"成為一個會講族語的專任教師"},{"start":5718.72,"end":5720.72,"text":"我講的不是族語教師"},{"start":5721.89,"end":5723.89,"text":"所以我不知道我們還要等多久"},{"start":5725.21,"end":5727.21,"text":"如果我們要繼續等"},{"start":5727.21,"end":5729.21,"text":"在十年之後不用立這個法了"},{"start":5729.21,"end":5731.21,"text":"師資培育也來不及"},{"start":5732.18,"end":5734.18,"text":"現場的老師也都全部退休光了"},{"start":5736.52,"end":5738.52,"text":"所以我在這個地方要特別的來聲明"},{"start":5740.11,"end":5742.11,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":5741.73,"end":5743.73,"text":"我們的師資"},{"start":5743.73,"end":5745.73,"text":"我們要繼續的努力"},{"start":5745.73,"end":5747.73,"text":"可是為什麼要有這部法"},{"start":5747.73,"end":5749.73,"text":"當年我說我要湊成一間學校"},{"start":5749.73,"end":5751.73,"text":"我湊不到因為沒有這個法"},{"start":5752.94,"end":5754.94,"text":"我的那些老師"},{"start":5754.94,"end":5756.94,"text":"他沒有辦法有彈性"},{"start":5756.94,"end":5758.94,"text":"能夠調動借聘到"},{"start":5758.94,"end":5760.94,"text":"我們所謂的原住民主學校"},{"start":5763.03,"end":5765.03,"text":"我部落會講族語的老師"},{"start":5765.03,"end":5767.03,"text":"他人在台北市"},{"start":5767.03,"end":5769.03,"text":"他也沒有辦法有那個彈性"},{"start":5769.03,"end":5771.03,"text":"調回來到這個原住民學校"},{"start":5771.03,"end":5773.03,"text":"所以為什麼我們要有這個法"},{"start":5773.46,"end":5775.46,"text":"沒有這個法我們現行我們做不到"},{"start":5777.34,"end":5779.34,"text":"那我們的師資有了之後"},{"start":5779.34,"end":5781.34,"text":"我們的課程"},{"start":5781.34,"end":5783.34,"text":"我相信這些年的原住民主實驗"},{"start":5784.98,"end":5786.98,"text":"教育的能量已經讓大家看到了"},{"start":5788.21,"end":5790.21,"text":"大家一直很擔心"},{"start":5790.21,"end":5792.21,"text":"讀這個學校學生會不會不能銜接"},{"start":5794.5,"end":5796.5,"text":"學習失敗"},{"start":5798.25,"end":5800.25,"text":"我們做這個課程改革"},{"start":5800.25,"end":5802.25,"text":"就是因為要呼應我們要解職"},{"start":5802.25,"end":5804.25,"text":"今天我們的原住民的孩子"},{"start":5804.25,"end":5806.25,"text":"他所上的學校"},{"start":5806.25,"end":5808.25,"text":"他所讀的教材"},{"start":5808.25,"end":5810.25,"text":"沒有依據他的文化"},{"start":5813.97,"end":5815.97,"text":"我們再依據別人的文化主體來學習"},{"start":5817.89,"end":5819.89,"text":"但是這幾年實驗學校"},{"start":5819.89,"end":5821.89,"text":"我們發展的課程教材"},{"start":5821.89,"end":5823.89,"text":"我們發現我們依據國家的課綱"},{"start":5823.89,"end":5825.89,"text":"但是我們以他的族群為本位"},{"start":5825.89,"end":5827.89,"text":"我們發現孩子"},{"start":5827.89,"end":5829.89,"text":"他很樂意學"},{"start":5832.32,"end":5834.32,"text":"他很容易懂"},{"start":5834.41,"end":5836.41,"text":"他的文化回應"},{"start":5836.41,"end":5838.41,"text":"他知道他是誰"},{"start":5838.41,"end":5840.41,"text":"他現在讀的是在跟客家文化對話"},{"start":5840.41,"end":5842.41,"text":"跟漢人文化對話"},{"start":5842.41,"end":5844.41,"text":"跟國外的文化在對話"},{"start":5844.41,"end":5846.41,"text":"他知道他從自己的文化出發"},{"start":5850.53,"end":5852.53,"text":"他有那樣的文化脈絡"},{"start":5852.53,"end":5854.53,"text":"他樂意學他容易懂"},{"start":5854.53,"end":5856.53,"text":"很自然他的學習成效"},{"start":5856.53,"end":5858.53,"text":"是提升的"},{"start":5858.53,"end":5860.53,"text":"甚至他的課程回家"},{"start":5860.53,"end":5862.53,"text":"是可以跟我們做"},{"start":5862.53,"end":5864.53,"text":"代歼學習"},{"start":5864.53,"end":5866.53,"text":"他的祖父母是可以跟他"},{"start":5866.53,"end":5868.53,"text":"一起做共學討論"},{"start":5868.53,"end":5870.53,"text":"所以我在這個地方"},{"start":5870.53,"end":5872.53,"text":"我必須要去做這樣的一個說明"},{"start":5872.53,"end":5874.53,"text":"但是我們需要一部法"},{"start":5874.53,"end":5876.53,"text":"來支撐"},{"start":5876.53,"end":5878.53,"text":"因為我們的整個"},{"start":5878.53,"end":5880.53,"text":"學校的師資"},{"start":5880.53,"end":5882.53,"text":"我們的課程的培育"},{"start":5882.53,"end":5884.53,"text":"我們需要這一部法來支撐"},{"start":5884.53,"end":5886.53,"text":"甚至像我們現在"},{"start":5886.53,"end":5888.53,"text":"在一些上次的公聽會提到的"},{"start":5888.53,"end":5890.53,"text":"像花蓮的Tamaro族羽學員"},{"start":5894.11,"end":5896.11,"text":"他們的孩子"},{"start":5896.11,"end":5898.11,"text":"從幼兒園銜接到國小"},{"start":5898.11,"end":5900.11,"text":"他們是非學形態"},{"start":5900.11,"end":5902.11,"text":"用實驗三法"},{"start":5902.11,"end":5904.11,"text":"可是他們的孩子畢了業"},{"start":5904.11,"end":5906.11,"text":"都會講族羽"},{"start":5907.01,"end":5909.01,"text":"我們在高中"},{"start":5909.01,"end":5911.01,"text":"有一個基隆的巴多高中"},{"start":5911.14,"end":5913.14,"text":"他們很想接住"},{"start":5913.14,"end":5915.14,"text":"這樣的學生到他們的學校"},{"start":5915.14,"end":5917.14,"text":"因為他們巴多高中的孩子"},{"start":5917.14,"end":5919.14,"text":"80%都能夠通過"},{"start":5920.69,"end":5922.69,"text":"中高級的族羽認證"},{"start":5922.69,"end":5924.69,"text":"所以原住民族學校"},{"start":5926.78,"end":5928.78,"text":"他不見得會很多間"},{"start":5928.78,"end":5930.78,"text":"但是他必須跟時間賽跑"},{"start":5931.58,"end":5933.58,"text":"要不然原住民的語言"},{"start":5934.92,"end":5936.92,"text":"我認為十年之後"},{"start":5936.92,"end":5938.92,"text":"我們再也沒有辦法"},{"start":5938.92,"end":5940.92,"text":"找到任何可以去延續的"},{"start":5940.92,"end":5942.92,"text":"一個附贈點"},{"start":5942.92,"end":5944.92,"text":"我們充其量只能夠透過"},{"start":5944.92,"end":5946.92,"text":"這些教材"},{"start":5946.92,"end":5948.92,"text":"我們去認識我們的民族教育"},{"start":5948.92,"end":5950.92,"text":"知道我們的文化"},{"start":5950.92,"end":5952.92,"text":"但是我們的語言恐怕接不起來"},{"start":5952.92,"end":5954.92,"text":"所以在這個部分"},{"start":5954.92,"end":5956.92,"text":"我希望在一個月內"},{"start":5956.92,"end":5958.92,"text":"針對這一些爭點"},{"start":5958.92,"end":5960.92,"text":"跟地方政府的"},{"start":5960.92,"end":5962.92,"text":"一個溝通"},{"start":5962.92,"end":5964.92,"text":"我希望我們教育部跟原民會"},{"start":5964.92,"end":5966.92,"text":"一個月內"},{"start":5966.92,"end":5968.92,"text":"我強調一個月內"},{"start":5968.92,"end":5970.92,"text":"我們是在跟時間賽跑"},{"start":5970.92,"end":5972.92,"text":"可以去盤點我剛才所講的這一些"},{"start":5972.92,"end":5974.92,"text":"提出一個書面報告"},{"start":5974.92,"end":5976.92,"text":"還有我們目前"},{"start":5976.92,"end":5978.92,"text":"這些所有委員的草案版本"},{"start":5978.92,"end":5980.92,"text":"去做一個比較"},{"start":5980.92,"end":5982.92,"text":"跟修法的意見"},{"start":5982.92,"end":5984.92,"text":"所以今天"},{"start":5984.92,"end":5986.92,"text":"我們排這個原住民族學校法"},{"start":5986.92,"end":5988.92,"text":"開始審查"},{"start":5988.92,"end":5990.92,"text":"這是這一屆第一次"},{"start":5990.92,"end":5992.92,"text":"我們要了之"},{"start":5992.92,"end":5994.92,"text":"因為沒有共識"},{"start":5994.92,"end":5996.92,"text":"我也坦承沒有共識"},{"start":5996.92,"end":5998.92,"text":"但是我要再強調一次"},{"start":5998.92,"end":6000.92,"text":"原住民的語言"},{"start":5999.48,"end":6001.48,"text":"原住民族的語言跟文化"},{"start":6001.48,"end":6003.48,"text":"是在跟時間賽跑"},{"start":6004.26,"end":6006.26,"text":"而且能做一間就做一間"},{"start":6006.26,"end":6008.26,"text":"但是需要一部法"},{"start":6008.26,"end":6010.26,"text":"來支撐"},{"start":6010.26,"end":6012.26,"text":"讓我們能夠建立起"},{"st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北市有沒有來求助"},{"start":6294.62,"end":6296.62,"text":"有沒有來反應"},{"start":6296.62,"end":6298.62,"text":"還是蔣萬安認為他可以搞定"},{"start":6298.62,"end":6300.62,"text":"我們有調查各縣市的一個狀況"},{"start":6300.62,"end":6302.62,"text":"就是委員關心的就是說"},{"start":6302.62,"end":6304.62,"text":"他們這個照標的狀況"},{"start":6304.62,"end":6306.62,"text":"還有"},{"start":6306.24,"end":6308.24,"text":"那台北市發生了之前是"},{"start":6308.24,"end":6310.24,"text":"六成標不出去"},{"start":6310.24,"end":6312.24,"text":"他們是希望二十一號"},{"start":6312.24,"end":6314.24,"text":"完成我知道但目前"},{"start":6314.24,"end":6316.24,"text":"還沒有完成蔣萬安說的是"},{"start":6316.24,"end":6318.24,"text":"八月二十一"},{"start":6318.24,"end":6320.24,"text":"但目前還沒有交標完成"},{"start":6320.24,"end":6322.24,"text":"就還是有一成左右"},{"start":6322.24,"end":6324.24,"text":"好"},{"start":6324.24,"end":6326.24,"text":"我們有調查二十二縣市"},{"start":6326.24,"end":6328.24,"text":"整體標案的進行"},{"start":6328.24,"end":6330.24,"text":"那因為像"},{"start":6330.24,"end":6332.24,"text":"學生的營養午餐其實是非常的重要"},{"start":6332.24,"end":6334.24,"text":"而且台北市來看的話他們還有局部"},{"start":6334.24,"end":6336.24,"text":"沒有完成"},{"start":6336.24,"end":6338.24,"text":"但是應該他們會在二十七號以前完成"},{"start":6338.24,"end":6340.24,"text":"那其他縣市有沒有"},{"start":6340.22,"end":6342.22,"text":"流標狀況"},{"start":6342.22,"end":6344.22,"text":"多數縣市告訴我們應該都是在"},{"start":6344.22,"end":6346.22,"text":"最近會完成"},{"start":6346.22,"end":6348.22,"text":"那最慢的應該也是可以看到"},{"start":6348.22,"end":6350.22,"text":"大約就是二十七號左右"},{"start":6350.22,"end":6352.22,"text":"所以其他縣市也"},{"start":6352.22,"end":6354.22,"text":"都有發生沒有"},{"start":6354.22,"end":6356.22,"text":"交標完成的狀況嗎"},{"start":6356.22,"end":6358.22,"text":"比較嚴重的如台北市的還有其他"},{"start":6358.22,"end":6360.22,"text":"哪些縣市沒有完成大部分都是"},{"start":6360.22,"end":6362.22,"text":"局部的學校局部的學校"},{"start":6362.22,"end":6364.22,"text":"確實有局部的學校"},{"start":6364.22,"end":6366.22,"text":"把資料完整提供給本席"},{"start":6366.22,"end":6368.22,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":6368.22,"end":6370.22,"text":"台北市的市議員們監督"},{"start":6370.22,"end":6372.22,"text":"非常的嚴謹用心"},{"start":6372.22,"end":6374.22,"text":"所以這些資訊是透過議員"},{"start":6374.22,"end":6376.22,"text":"在議會質詢才被"},{"start":6376.22,"end":6378.22,"text":"踢爆的"},{"start":6378.22,"end":6380.22,"text":"我也很擔心教育部你們的普查"},{"start":6380.22,"end":6382.22,"text":"那掌握的是局部學校"},{"start":6382.22,"end":6384.22,"text":"我認為要更細緻的"},{"start":6384.22,"end":6386.22,"text":"而中央能夠幫忙就幫忙"},{"start":6386.22,"end":6388.22,"text":"我想幫助學生"},{"start":6388.22,"end":6390.22,"text":"吃的健康吃的營養"},{"start":6390.22,"end":6392.22,"text":"我們中央洗手能協助就協助"},{"start":6392.22,"end":6394.22,"text":"但是也告訴我們一個警訊"},{"start":6394.22,"end":6396.22,"text":"免費不是王道"},{"start":6396.36,"end":6398.36,"text":"該做的行政流程相關的配套"},{"start":6398.36,"end":6400.36,"text":"都是重點"},{"start":6400.36,"end":6402.36,"text":"好下一頁"},{"start":6402.36,"end":6404.36,"text":"另外同樣我因為選區在台北市"},{"start":6404.36,"end":6406.36,"text":"開學在即"},{"start":6406.36,"end":6408.36,"text":"台北市仍有309個代理教師"},{"start":6408.36,"end":6410.36,"text":"是缺額的"},{"start":6411.35,"end":6413.35,"text":"那地方政府到目前"},{"start":6413.35,"end":6415.35,"text":"似乎也拿不出更具體的對策"},{"start":6415.35,"end":6417.35,"text":"我想請你們說一下"},{"start":6417.35,"end":6419.35,"text":"中央地方各有權限"},{"start":6419.35,"end":6421.35,"text":"但是我很開心"},{"start":6421.35,"end":6423.35,"text":"經過我們共同努力的爭取"},{"start":6423.35,"end":6425.35,"text":"在偏鄉的代理教師的"},{"start":6425.35,"end":6427.35,"text":"強化留任偏鄉教師"},{"start":6427.35,"end":6429.35,"text":"的久任獎金已經上路了"},{"start":6429.35,"end":6431.35,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6431.35,"end":6433.35,"text":"所以這對於偏鄉的老師"},{"start":6433.35,"end":6435.35,"text":"的留任應當有相對"},{"start":6435.35,"end":6437.35,"text":"高的誘因"},{"start":6437.35,"end":6439.35,"text":"那一個新的制度我就想了解"},{"start":6439.35,"end":6441.35,"text":"我們要修訂公立學校"},{"start":6441.35,"end":6443.35,"text":"教師獎金的發計辦法"},{"start":6443.35,"end":6445.35,"text":"針對資深"},{"start":6445.35,"end":6447.35,"text":"而且優良的教師提高"},{"start":6447.35,"end":6449.35,"text":"他的獎金因為這個"},{"start":6449.35,"end":6451.35,"text":"已經35年未調了"},{"start":6451.35,"end":6453.35,"text":"從民國80年"},{"start":6453.35,"end":6455.35,"text":"到現在將近35年沒有調整"},{"start":6455.35,"end":6457.35,"text":"的資深優良教師的獎金"},{"start":6457.35,"end":6459.35,"text":"你們什麼時候會上路"},{"start":6461.43,"end":6463.43,"text":"這個已經"},{"start":6463.43,"end":6465.43,"text":"你們現在研議中嘛"},{"start":6465.43,"end":6467.43,"text":"我知道你們"},{"start":6467.43,"end":6469.43,"text":"那目標什麼時候可以上路"},{"start":6470.36,"end":6472.36,"text":"明年上路"},{"start":6472.36,"end":6474.36,"text":"我們已經其實內部已經"},{"start":6474.36,"end":6476.36,"text":"簽合方案出來了"},{"start":6476.36,"end":6478.36,"text":"但是要送行政院核定有關獎金的部分"},{"start":6478.36,"end":6480.36,"text":"那我們就是越快越好"},{"start":6480.36,"end":6482.36,"text":"對預定明年"},{"start":6482.36,"end":6484.36,"text":"因為偏鄉是一塊我們解決了偏鄉的人力荒"},{"start":6484.36,"end":6486.36,"text":"但是對於"},{"start":6486.36,"end":6488.36,"text":"一般的"},{"start":6488.36,"end":6490.36,"text":"久任的資深的"},{"start":6490.36,"end":6492.36,"text":"獎金而且我要強調這個辦法"},{"start":6492.36,"end":6494.36,"text":"是35年沒有調整"},{"start":6494.36,"end":6496.36,"text":"我們已經把它編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家長 委員 縣經"},{"start":6698.72,"end":6700.72,"text":"列席的眾議院 官員 會長 公民夥伴 媒體"},{"start":6700.72,"end":6702.72,"text":"記者 女士 先生"},{"start":6702.72,"end":6704.72,"text":"有請教育部張廖次長"},{"start":6704.72,"end":6706.72,"text":"還有法治處的鄭處長"},{"start":6707.39,"end":6709.39,"text":"國教院的郭副院長"},{"start":6709.39,"end":6711.39,"text":"還有原民會的"},{"start":6711.39,"end":6713.39,"text":"杜彰梅莊副主任委員"},{"start":6713.39,"end":6715.39,"text":"好請以上官員上備訓台請"},{"start":6715.39,"end":6717.39,"text":"好委員好"},{"start":6718.49,"end":6720.49,"text":"好 次長好 副主委好"},{"start":6720.49,"end":6722.49,"text":"還有處長跟副院長好"},{"start":6722.49,"end":6724.49,"text":"今天我們在討論的呢"},{"start":6724.49,"end":6726.49,"text":"是"},{"start":6726.57,"end":6728.57,"text":"原住民族學校法"},{"start":6728.68,"end":6730.68,"text":"好那請問一下次長"},{"start":6730.68,"end":6732.68,"text":"你認為原住民族學校的目的是什麼"},{"start":6733.16,"end":6737.16,"text":"目的就是讓原住民族能夠建立自主的知識體系"},{"start":6737.16,"end":6739.16,"text":"成立一貫的他們"},{"start":6739.16,"end":6743.16,"text":"符合他們文化的知識學習的一個學校"},{"start":6743.16,"end":6747.16,"text":"本席在2016年跟你一樣進入的立法院之後"},{"start":6747.16,"end":6751.16,"text":"我在教文會我也推動了原住民族教育法"},{"start":6751.16,"end":6753.16,"text":"那後來在2020年"},{"start":6753.16,"end":6757.16,"text":"我們的召委 吳立華委員進入之後"},{"start":6757.16,"end":6759.16,"text":"他也推動了原住民族學校法"},{"start":6759.16,"end":6761.16,"text":"教育法通過了"},{"start":6761.16,"end":6763.16,"text":"但是學校法還在進行"},{"start":6763.16,"end":6765.16,"text":"請教一下我們的杜章副主委"},{"start":6765.16,"end":6767.16,"text":"請問原住民族學校法"},{"start":6767.16,"end":6771.16,"text":"有沒有分三地原住民族學校跟平地原住民學校"},{"start":6773.17,"end":6775.17,"text":"目前沒有"},{"start":6775.17,"end":6777.17,"text":"可是我們憲法來我們看一下"},{"start":6777.17,"end":6779.17,"text":"憲法就寫得很清楚啊"},{"start":6779.17,"end":6781.17,"text":"我們憲法寫說什麼"},{"start":6781.17,"end":6783.17,"text":"寫說要分成平地原住民跟三地原住民啊"},{"start":6783.17,"end":6785.17,"text":"那憲法是我國最高的母法"},{"start":6785.17,"end":6787.17,"text":"那現在我們原住民族學校法"},{"start":6787.17,"end":6789.17,"text":"為什麼不會做這個區分呢"},{"start":6789.17,"end":6791.17,"text":"副主委你認為什麼原因"},{"start":6793.69,"end":6795.69,"text":"因為這個憲法當時設計的時候"},{"start":6795.69,"end":6797.69,"text":"有他的時代背景"},{"start":6797.69,"end":6799.69,"text":"現在是一個多元族群"},{"start":6799.69,"end":6801.69,"text":"慢慢的也有平埔族群在加入"},{"start":6801.69,"end":6803.69,"text":"原住民事實上"},{"start":6803.69,"end":6805.69,"text":"他在整體的政策上"},{"start":6805.69,"end":6807.69,"text":"應該會盡可能才一致性"},{"start":6807.69,"end":6809.69,"text":"所以原住民族學校法"},{"start":6809.69,"end":6811.69,"text":"傳承的是原住民的文化"},{"start":6811.69,"end":6813.69,"text":"原住民文化有分三元跟平元嗎"},{"start":6816.65,"end":6818.65,"text":"各族群有各族群的文化"},{"start":6818.65,"end":6820.65,"text":"不是用三元平元來分"},{"start":6820.65,"end":6822.65,"text":"那你覺得應該用什麼來分"},{"start":6823.34,"end":6825.34,"text":"我決定應該回歸到各個族群"},{"start":6825.34,"end":6827.34,"text":"是的回歸到各個族群"},{"start":6827.34,"end":6829.34,"text":"那憲法有沒有相關的規定"},{"start":6830.47,"end":6832.47,"text":"來我給你看一下憲法的規定"},{"start":6832.36,"end":6834.36,"text":"下一張"},{"start":6834.74,"end":6836.74,"text":"再下一張"},{"start":6837.58,"end":6840.58,"text":"中華民國憲法增修條文第十條基本國策第十一項"},{"start":6840.58,"end":6845.58,"text":"國家肯定多元化應積極維護發展原住民族語言及文化"},{"start":6845.58,"end":6846.58,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6846.58,"end":6848.58,"text":"而且國家因原住民的意願"},{"start":6848.58,"end":6851.58,"text":"保障原住民族的地位與政治參與"},{"start":6851.58,"end":6855.58,"text":"所以其實次長也好副主委也好"},{"start":6855.58,"end":6858.58,"text":"我們今天在討論原住民族學校法"},{"start":6858.58,"end":6863.58,"text":"就是要依循憲法增修條文第十條基本國策的第十一項"},{"start":6863.58,"end":6867.58,"text":"所以我們要積極維護發展原住民族的語言跟文化"},{"start":6867.58,"end":6868.58,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6868.83,"end":6870.83,"text":"是的請問你們兩位跟我分別說一下"},{"start":6870.83,"end":6873.83,"text":"這個憲法裡面有沒有說三元跟平原"},{"start":6873.83,"end":6874.83,"text":"沒有"},{"start":6874.83,"end":6875.83,"text":"沒有"},{"start":6875.83,"end":6878.83,"text":"所以你們未來在這個學校法也不會是這樣區分"},{"start":6878.83,"end":6882.83,"text":"那請問我們請問一下國教院的副院長"},{"start":6884.31,"end":6888.31,"text":"那請問站在教育的宗旨你認為未來原住民的學校"},{"start":6888.31,"end":6891.31,"text":"應該依照什麼樣的方式來設置"},{"start":6891.31,"end":6895.31,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們目前國家也啟動一個相關的研究"},{"start":6895.31,"end":6901.31,"text":"那大概在明年五月份大概針對師資還有設立的整個標準"},{"start":6901.31,"end":6903.31,"text":"的部分會有比較明確的答案"},{"start":6903.31,"end":6908.31,"text":"那你們會不會向我們的選罷法或我們的這個增修條文說"},{"start":6908.31,"end":6911.31,"text":"每一組都要設立一所原住民族學校"},{"start":6912.64,"end":6915.64,"text":"我們目前國家目前的研究還沒有這樣的顯示"},{"start":6915.64,"end":6916.64,"text":"那可能要看一下政策"},{"start":6916.64,"end":6920.64,"text":"為什麼政治上我們的選區一定要分得那麼清楚"},{"start":6920.64,"end":6924.64,"text":"然後在我們目前來那個我來請教一下法治處"},{"start":6924.64,"end":6927.64,"text":"這個比較偏遠比較遠一點"},{"start":6927.64,"end":6929.64,"text":"請問目前我們原住民族有幾族"},{"start":6930.86,"end":6931.86,"text":"17"},{"start":6931.86,"end":6932.86,"text":"很好"},{"start":6933.46,"end":6935.46,"text":"剛有人說16次長說16"},{"start":6935.46,"end":6936.46,"text":"16加1"},{"start":6936.46,"end":6938.46,"text":"對啦16加1很好"},{"start":6938.46,"end":6941.46,"text":"那是不是未來要設17或16加1所學校"},{"start":6941.46,"end":6943.46,"text":"次長那個副主委你認為有沒有必要"},{"start":6945.71,"end":6949.71,"text":"是希望未來是各個民族他都有自己的一個民族學校"},{"start":6949.71,"end":6950.71,"text":"是的"},{"start":6950.71,"end":6951.71,"text":"朝這個方向"},{"start":6951.71,"end":6954.71,"text":"那你會不會認為在文化之外我們在政治上的安排"},{"start":6954.71,"end":6958.71,"text":"參政權的安排也要依照這樣的每一個族"},{"start":6958.71,"end":6960.71,"text":"都有他自己的相對應的代表"},{"start":6961.15,"end":6962.15,"text":"你會不會主張這個"},{"start":6963.11,"end":6965.11,"text":"這個我還沒有想過"},{"start":6965.11,"end":6966.11,"text":"還沒仔細想過"},{"start":6966.11,"end":6969.11,"text":"好其實我今天在這裡藉用這個機會"},{"start":6969.11,"end":6973.11,"text":"本席在2016年在教文會我們提倡了原住民族教育法"},{"start":6973.11,"end":6975.11,"text":"在2020年之後繼吳立華委員之後"},{"start":6975.11,"end":6977.11,"text":"我們提倡了原住民族學校法"},{"start":6977.11,"end":6980.11,"text":"但是當我們現在遇到的台灣的政治環境"},{"start":6980.11,"end":6987.11,"text":"結果我們看到最口口聲聲說要去倡議保障我們原住民族文化的這些"},{"start":6988.66,"end":6992.66,"text":"在野黨的委員他們卻忽略了我們憲法"},{"start":6993.18,"end":6995.18,"text":"徵修條文第十條的最高位階"},{"start":6995.18,"end":6999.18,"text":"原住民的整體的文化跟語言要予以保障"},{"start":6999.18,"end":7004.18,"text":"那次長同不同意這必然的要透過原住民族學校法來加以"},{"start":7004.62,"end":7006.62,"text":"保障跟發揚"},{"start":7006.62,"end":7010.62,"text":"那你也不認為這個過程當中要誤錯誤的沿用"},{"start":7010.62,"end":7016.62,"text":"過去國民黨會權統治時期將原住民族群區分成三元跟平原的方式來分別設定"},{"start":7016.62,"end":7018.62,"text":"對的確是應該以族群為主"},{"start":7018.62,"end":7022.62,"text":"好所以你會支持我們國家院公支持我們原民會"},{"start":7022.62,"end":7028.62,"text":"未來盡可能的讓每一個族群原住民的每一個族群都擁有自己的原住民族學校是不是這樣"},{"start":7028.62,"end":7030.62,"text":"政策方向如果是這樣我們是配合"},{"start":7030.62,"end":7034.62,"text":"好謝謝次長謝謝副主委謝謝院長謝謝我們的處長謝謝"},{"start":7036.06,"end":7040.06,"text":"好謝謝鍾嘉賓委員的質詢請官員們回座"},{"start":7040.06,"end":7044.06,"text":"接下來有請蔡春筹委員進行詢答"},{"start":7062.94,"end":7064.94,"text":"主席好"},{"start":7065.59,"end":7069.59,"text":"主席好我們請原民會的副主委"},{"start":7070.89,"end":7072.89,"text":"好有請杜章副主委"},{"start":7075.68,"end":7076.68,"text":"委員好"},{"start":7076.68,"end":7078.68,"text":"副主委你好"},{"start":7079.79,"end":7090.79,"text":"在這裡呢要請教副主委在這一次的一個原住民民族學校法已經有很多位的原住民委員提出一個版本"},{"start":7090.79,"end":7097.79,"text":"那教育部呢也跟原民會也都表達要支持"},{"start":7097.79,"end":7102.79,"text":"那那個制定這個專法已經有相當的一個共識"},{"start":7102.79,"end":7105.79,"text":"那本身也支持這樣的一個立法的方向"},{"start":7105.79,"end":7109.79,"text":"那至於各版本的主管機關還有自己的方式"},{"start":7109.79,"end":7119.79,"text":"設計的自對設計上的差異呢我們也都能夠都能夠來尊重各體案來做一個窗戶的討論"},{"start":7119.79,"end":7129.79,"text":"那在這裡呢要請教就是原民會呢已經提出既有學校一個轉型公辦民營還有一族一民主學校的方向"},{"start":7129.79,"end":7136.79,"text":"那專法完成以後呢政府準備如何一個民主意願分階段來推動"},{"start":7136.79,"end":7141.79,"text":"那目前呢會最優先來完成哪一些準備"},{"start":7144.53,"end":7151.53,"text":"現在我們目前的進度是在做課程跟教材的發展"},{"start":7151.53,"end":7153.53,"text":"那是真的意思"},{"start":7155.66,"end":7159.66,"text":"但私自培育的部分我們也是跟那個教育部這邊也給他們相關的意見"},{"start":7159.66,"end":7163.66,"text":"那我們會裡面再做課程跟這個教材的發展"},{"start":7165.09,"end":7169.09,"text":"現在是課程你們那個"},{"start":7169.09,"end":7175.09,"text":"原民會跟教育部是如何分工你剛剛在說的部分好像"},{"start":7175.09,"end":7178.09,"text":"在私自培育上面是以教育部為主"},{"start":7178.09,"end":7185.09,"text":"當然我們會給他們很多的意見跟專家學者的一些提供相關的意見給教育部"},{"start":7185.09,"end":7191.09,"text":"那我們的部分在這個課程教材的這個研發跟他的制定"},{"start":7191.09,"end":7192.09,"text":"喔好"},{"start":7192.09,"end":7193.09,"text":"啦"},{"start":7193.22,"end":7196.22,"text":"那因為呢你剛剛也有講了啦"},{"start":7196.22,"end":7200.22,"text":"私自的部分是由教育部來主責啦"},{"start":7200.22,"end":7204.22,"text":"那學生的一個課程呢是由原民會這邊來主責是嗎"},{"start":7204.22,"end":7210.22,"text":"是課程的這個課綱或課程的這個研發是我們來處理"},{"start":7210.22,"end":7212.22,"text":"你們處理的嗎"},{"start":7215.11,"end":7217.11,"text":"啦"},{"start":7217.43,"end":7219.43,"text":"這個"},{"start":7220.51,"end":7222.51,"text":"原民會這個學校"},{"start":7222.51,"end":7225.51,"text":"從實驗教育走向原住民民主學校"},{"start":7225.51,"end":7228.51,"text":"還有私資課程行政跟裁員都要跟上"},{"start":7228.51,"end":7236.51,"text":"那請原民會呢來說明從原民會的前者出發準備如何跟教育部還有地方政府"},{"start":7236.51,"end":7240.51,"text":"學校協作將制度順利銜接這個部分有做了嗎"},{"start":7240.51,"end":7243.51,"text":"好這我請那個我們業務單位跟說明一下"},{"start":7245.68,"end":7249.68,"text":"喔謝謝委員指教有關整個民主學校的推動"},{"start":7249.68,"end":7251.68,"text":"目前我們是依據"},{"start":7251.68,"end":7258.68,"text":"我們教育部所訂班的委託民間辦理實驗教育條例這樣的規定來跟地方政府合作"},{"start":7258.68,"end":7262.68,"text":"由我們委託財長法人員住民文化事業基金會"},{"start":7262.68,"end":7265.68,"text":"來跟地方政府提出申請"},{"start":7265.68,"end":7267.68,"text":"那地方政府會"},{"start":7267.68,"end":7272.68,"text":"如果他有意配合意願的話會指定他所配合的學校"},{"start":7272.68,"end":7275.68,"text":"然後由我們來接辦這樣的一個學校"},{"start":7275.68,"end":7278.68,"text":"然後開始順利來推動整個民主學校的設立"},{"start":7279.6,"end":7283.6,"text":"所以這個民主學校的設立還是要跟地方的政府"},{"start":7283.6,"end":7287.6,"text":"對我們現在的制度是透過實驗教育條例來跟地方政府合作來共同推動"},{"start":7287.6,"end":7292.6,"text":"這樣是最節省經費也是最快能夠上路的一種方式"},{"start":7292.97,"end":7298.97,"text":"這樣我感覺教育部還是有比較完全的主導的一個"},{"start":7298.97,"end":7301.97,"text":"當然在教育主管機關的立場上"},{"start":7301.97,"end":7305.97,"text":"教育部還是可以協助我們來跟地方政府來做協調"},{"start":7305.97,"end":7309.97,"text":"讓地方政府能夠很順利來跟研民會一起合作"},{"start":7309.97,"end":7312.97,"text":"但是呢主管機關還是研民會嗎"},{"start":7312.97,"end":7315.97,"text":"這個計畫是目前由研民會來主責"},{"start":7315.97,"end":7318.97,"text":"好我感覺好像還沒有準備得很完整"},{"start":7318.97,"end":7327.97,"text":"其實我們第一所的民主學校在今年的8月30日要在高雄市正式推開啟動了"},{"start":7327.97,"end":7329.97,"text":"現在才開始要啟動"},{"start":7329.97,"end":7334.97,"text":"今年第一所我們第一所的民主學校在8月30日要正式開學了"},{"start":7336.56,"end":7342.56,"text":"好這個我們先提出來討論"},{"start":7342.56,"end":7344.56,"text":"因為剛開始嘛"},{"start":7344.56,"end":7347.56,"text":"那現在這個學校目前是小學還是國中"},{"start":7347.56,"end":7349.56,"text":"目前是小學還有幼兒園"},{"start":7349.56,"end":7350.56,"text":"幼兒園"},{"start":7350.56,"end":7351.56,"text":"然後未來呢"},{"start":7351.56,"end":7354.56,"text":"我們希望他們能夠銜接到國中高中"},{"start":7354.56,"end":7356.56,"text":"他是一個12年一貫的一個學校"},{"start":7356.56,"end":7362.56,"text":"所以未來呢他們轉銜到國中的時候也是民主學校嗎"},{"start":7362.56,"end":7363.56,"text":"是的"},{"start":7363.56,"end":7365.56,"text":"未來還是會一樣"},{"start":7365.56,"end":7368.56,"text":"所以這一批會慢慢升到國中的第一屆"},{"start":7368.56,"end":7369.56,"text":"對"},{"start":7369.56,"end":7376.56,"text":"OK好那我們希望整個轉銜都能夠這個制度上能夠很完善"},{"start":7376.56,"end":7379.56,"text":"包括國中完之後呢直升到高中"},{"start":7379.56,"end":7386.56,"text":"這個轉銜都一定要一併的來把它做一個很完整的計畫"},{"start":7386.56,"end":7389.56,"text":"謝謝你協委員知道我明天會朝這個方向來努力"},{"start":7389.56,"end":7394.56,"text":"好那最後呢有關一個不是屬於教育的一個問題"},{"start":7394.56,"end":7400.56,"text":"來請教嚴明慧因為本黨對於這個計畫補償的這個"},{"start":7401.74,"end":7404.74,"text":"這個制度呢相當關心"},{"start":7404.74,"end":7410.74,"text":"那我利用這個時間呢要來請教嚴明慧對於這個"},{"start":7411.73,"end":7413.73,"text":"計畫補償的這個"},{"start":7415.11,"end":7422.11,"text":"來請問一下喔116年度呢有沒有編這個預算出來"},{"start":7422.11,"end":7423.11,"text":"有"},{"start":7423.11,"end":7426.11,"text":"那你這個預算是個別的嗎"},{"start":7426.11,"end":7430.11,"text":"也是編在年度預算跟新的一陣取的"},{"start":7430.11,"end":7434.11,"text":"就是針對進華的這個預算嗎"},{"start":7434.11,"end":7437.11,"text":"是針對進華的一個專"},{"start":7437.11,"end":7438.11,"text":"對對對"},{"start":7438.11,"end":7443.11,"text":"那有沒有排除到那個低收入戶跟低中收入戶"},{"start":7443.54,"end":7445.54,"text":"中低收入戶"},{"start":7445.54,"end":7447.54,"text":"這陣子有人反應這個問題"},{"start":7447.54,"end":7448.54,"text":"我們事實上也在處理"},{"start":7448.54,"end":7452.54,"text":"但是因為那個中低收入戶是涉及到衛福部他們的認定"},{"start":7452.54,"end":7454.54,"text":"所以這個是需要協調的"},{"start":7454.54,"end":7460.54,"text":"那我們希望說陳明慧能夠盡量幫這一些"},{"start":7460.54,"end":7465.54,"text":"中低收入戶的一個潛力呢能夠來跟衛福部做一個協商"},{"start":7465.54,"end":7467.54,"text":"然後為他們爭取一些福利"},{"start":7467.54,"end":7468.54,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":7468.54,"end":7471.54,"text":"那最後我們請教育部張市長"},{"start":7475.5,"end":7476.5,"text":"好委員好"},{"start":7476.5,"end":7477.5,"text":"好 市長好"},{"start":7480.67,"end":7484.67,"text":"我們要請教育部這邊"},{"start":7484.67,"end":7488.67,"text":"原住民學校它是要有不同類型的師資"},{"start":7488.67,"end":7490.67,"text":"還有教學人力"},{"start":7490.67,"end":7496.67,"text":"那未來在尊重民主教育的一個需求的同時"},{"start":7496.67,"end":7499.67,"text":"如何來兼顧教師的一個專業"},{"start":7499.67,"end":7502.67,"text":"還有限職人員的一個潛力跟師資的一個穩定"},{"start":7502.67,"end":7506.67,"text":"在私培的部分請教育部來做一個說明"},{"start":7506.67,"end":7509.67,"text":"好 依照原教法我們27條第二項的規定"},{"start":7509.67,"end":7512.67,"text":"那原民會會訂定民主教育課程內容"},{"start":7512.67,"end":7514.67,"text":"那我們會負責師資的培育"},{"start":7514.67,"end":7518.67,"text":"那我們在這幾年來"},{"start":7518.67,"end":7521.67,"text":"包括透過那個次專長"},{"start":7521.67,"end":7523.67,"text":"就是一般學科的那個次專長的那個"},{"start":7523.67,"end":7525.67,"text":"之前培育的課程等等"},{"start":7525.67,"end":7528.67,"text":"我們會有一些相關的這個課程"},{"start":7528.67,"end":7529.67,"text":"有九個學校"},{"start":7529.67,"end":7531.67,"text":"那我們請那個"},{"start":7532.24,"end":7533.24,"text":"副市長來說"},{"start":7533.24,"end":7535.24,"text":"我們請那個副主委先進回座"},{"start":7535.24,"end":7536.24,"text":"副市長"},{"start":7536.24,"end":7538.24,"text":"是 報告委員"},{"start":7538.24,"end":7540.24,"text":"針對師資培育的部分"},{"start":7540.24,"end":7542.24,"text":"除了原住民族與師資的培育"},{"start":7542.24,"end":7544.24,"text":"依照課綱去培育之外"},{"start":7544.24,"end":7546.24,"text":"未來配合原住民學校"},{"start":7546.24,"end":7551.24,"text":"我們會把原民會所建立的知識架構的內涵"},{"start":7551.24,"end":7555.24,"text":"納入我們師資培育民族教育次專長的內涵裡面"},{"start":7555.24,"end":7558.24,"text":"那目前本來次專長的課程架構"},{"start":7558.24,"end":7561.24,"text":"就有在我們師培學校裡面去處理"},{"start":7561.24,"end":7565.24,"text":"那包括在職的部分也會跟原民會一起合作"},{"start":7565.24,"end":7567.24,"text":"對在職老師做訓練"},{"start":7567.24,"end":7572.24,"text":"那未來如果原住民學校有確定成立的話"},{"start":7572.24,"end":7576.24,"text":"他的師資其實可以由我們這邊去做培育之後"},{"start":7576.24,"end":7579.24,"text":"做一定程度的轉任跟轉換以上"},{"start":7579.24,"end":7581.24,"text":"好 那我再請教一下"},{"start":7581.24,"end":7584.24,"text":"那如果是原先是原住民的學生"},{"start":7584.24,"end":7586.24,"text":"或是他已經是"},{"start":7586.24,"end":7588.24,"text":"是有那個老師的資格"},{"start":7588.24,"end":7592.24,"text":"有沒有優先來培育這些原住民的學生"},{"start":7592.24,"end":7595.24,"text":"未來可能就能夠投入到原住民學校"},{"start":7595.24,"end":7598.24,"text":"有沒有這樣的一個計畫或者是打算"},{"start":7598.24,"end":7601.24,"text":"我們這部分如果原民會這邊有計畫我們會協助"},{"start":7602.3,"end":7605.3,"text":"那現在是不是要先由原民會來提出計畫嗎"},{"start":7606.66,"end":7607.66,"text":"再跟委員報告"},{"start":7607.66,"end":7613.66,"text":"其實目前原住民學生也是在我們師資生裡面的培育的行列裡面"},{"start":7613.66,"end":7616.66,"text":"通常我們都是用外加名額去支給"},{"start":7616.66,"end":7618.66,"text":"是 有沒有多鼓勵他們說"},{"start":7618.66,"end":7621.66,"text":"未來可以回到原鄉來做一個"},{"start":7621.66,"end":7622.66,"text":"有 有 有"},{"start":7622.66,"end":7626.66,"text":"就是目前透過公費生的制度其實都是對接原鄉的"},{"start":7626.66,"end":7629.66,"text":"因為最主要是通過"},{"start":7629.66,"end":7632.66,"text":"因為那個他們的一個課程的一個自主"},{"start":7632.66,"end":7634.66,"text":"有很多是屬於他們的歷史性的"},{"start":7634.66,"end":7639.66,"text":"所以應該是原鄉的學生以後當成老師回來的話"},{"start":7639.66,"end":7643.66,"text":"他可能他對這個地方的認同一個情感"},{"start":7643.66,"end":7645.66,"text":"應該是會比一般的老師還要好"},{"start":7645.66,"end":7651.66,"text":"是 目前我們現在今年這兩年推動的原住民專班"},{"start":7651.66,"end":7655.66,"text":"公費生培育的計畫裡面就是針對"},{"start":7655.66,"end":7661.66,"text":"來自他原來在地的縣市所推薦的原住民的學生"},{"start":7661.66,"end":7663.66,"text":"做原住民專班培育的對象"},{"start":7663.66,"end":7666.66,"text":"未來他就是會透過這樣的一個計畫"},{"start":7666.66,"end":7668.66,"text":"回到他的原鄉去進行服務上"},{"start":7668.66,"end":7672.66,"text":"好 那我們對原住民學校呢"},{"start":7672.66,"end":7675.66,"text":"我們關心三件事情就是施制要穩定"},{"start":7675.66,"end":7678.66,"text":"那誰知前議員也要完整"},{"start":7678.66,"end":7680.66,"text":"那教育資源要持續"},{"start":7680.66,"end":7683.66,"text":"那這請教育部後續應該要跟原民會"},{"start":7683.66,"end":7686.66,"text":"來做這三件事情的一個銜接"},{"start":7686.66,"end":7689.66,"text":"好 那最後有一題要請教那個次長"},{"start":7691.64,"end":7694.64,"text":"次長你知道什麼叫做夏季的失落嗎"},{"start":7694.64,"end":7697.64,"text":"夏季失落的一個現象嗎"},{"start":7699.72,"end":7705.72,"text":"請委 放暑假那個空窗"},{"start":7705.72,"end":7710.72,"text":"是 好 現在就是要來跟次長請教"},{"start":7710.72,"end":7714.72,"text":"就是所謂夏季失落有很多比較偏鄉 炎鄉"},{"start":7714.72,"end":7718.72,"text":"因為暑假期間沒有像都會區這有城鄉差距"},{"start":7718.72,"end":7721.72,"text":"沒有什麼補習班或是才藝班"},{"start":7721.72,"end":7723.72,"text":"可以來做這樣的一個補習"},{"start":7723.72,"end":7727.72,"text":"所以他們會這些在炎鄉的孩子呢"},{"start":7727.72,"end":7731.72,"text":"會整個暑假就感覺是浪費掉了"},{"start":7731.72,"end":7734.72,"text":"那在這裡跟你分享就是東海大學"},{"start":7734.72,"end":7737.72,"text":"東海大學在今年的一個暑假"},{"start":7739.77,"end":7744.77,"text":"帶了一個青年團發起了日出偏鄉教育營"},{"start":7744.77,"end":7747.77,"text":"50幾位的大學生頂著烈日"},{"start":7747.77,"end":7750.77,"text":"跑到藍頭信義鄉的羅納部落"},{"start":7750.77,"end":7752.77,"text":"跟羅納國小"},{"start":7752.77,"end":7756.77,"text":"他們不只教小朋友生成式的AI應用"},{"start":7756.77,"end":7759.77,"text":"媒體的一個試讀還有走入部落"},{"start":7759.77,"end":7762.77,"text":"教長輩怎麼樣反患詐騙"},{"start":7762.77,"end":7767.77,"text":"那甚至連結了結合了大學歷史系的一個專業信任"},{"start":7767.77,"end":7770.77,"text":"進行口述的歷史跟田野的調查"},{"start":7770.77,"end":7771.77,"text":"把這個服務呢"},{"start":7771.77,"end":7774.77,"text":"升格為長期的一個結束的一個實踐"},{"start":7774.77,"end":7779.77,"text":"那你們認不認同他們這樣的一個核心理念"},{"start":7779.77,"end":7781.77,"text":"終結了煙火式的服務"},{"start":7781.77,"end":7785.77,"text":"然後能夠建構典、獻、滅"},{"start":7785.77,"end":7787.77,"text":"來做一個永續的一個生態"},{"start":7787.77,"end":7789.77,"text":"然後讓這個大學責任"},{"start":7789.77,"end":7793.77,"text":"能夠在這樣的一個偏鄉來做一個那個落實"},{"start":7793.77,"end":7794.77,"text":"對謝謝委員的關心"},{"start":7794.77,"end":7796.77,"text":"教育部其實長年多年來"},{"start":7796.77,"end":7798.77,"text":"有推動這個夏日熱學計畫"},{"start":7798.77,"end":7802.77,"text":"大概也會有四、五萬的學生到偏鄉"},{"start":7802.77,"end":7805.77,"text":"到比較這個偏遠地區去做服務"},{"start":7805.77,"end":7807.77,"text":"那也有相當的這個量能"},{"start":7807.77,"end":7809.77,"text":"那像東海大學這個也是其中之一"},{"start":7809.77,"end":7812.77,"text":"他們有這樣的一個服務"},{"start":7812.77,"end":7814.77,"text":"下鄉服務的都非常非常好"},{"start":7814.77,"end":7816.77,"text":"那以後我們我們接著"},{"start":7816.77,"end":7820.77,"text":"是要更鼓勵更多的大學學生"},{"start":7820.77,"end":7824.77,"text":"能夠到原鄉偏鄉來做服務"},{"start":7824.77,"end":7828.77,"text":"除了服務原鄉的一個這些小孩子或是老人"},{"start":7828.77,"end":7830.77,"text":"那他本身也是一種學習"},{"start":7830.77,"end":7832.77,"text":"一種服務一種公益的學習"},{"start":7832.77,"end":7834.77,"text":"我們希望教育部在這個部分"},{"start":7834.77,"end":7837.77,"text":"能夠多給一些那個資源"},{"start":7837.77,"end":7840.77,"text":"讓這些大學學生有機會這樣"},{"start":7840.77,"end":7842.77,"text":"來做這樣的一個學習"},{"start":7842.77,"end":7844.77,"text":"我們那個更正一下"},{"start":7844.77,"end":7846.77,"text":"我們那個夏日熱學計畫裡面"},{"start":7846.77,"end":7847.77,"text":"大概會擴大"},{"start":7847.77,"end":7848.77,"text":"現在已經大概有四萬"},{"start":7848.77,"end":7850.77,"text":"四萬到五萬的學生參與"},{"start":7850.77,"end":7851.77,"text":"我們將來會"},{"start":7851.77,"end":7852.77,"text":"這委員那麼關心"},{"start":7852.77,"end":7854.77,"text":"我們將來會跟地方政府合作"},{"start":7854.77,"end":7856.77,"text":"盡量來開辦"},{"start":7856.77,"end":7858.77,"text":"那如果有一些大學"},{"start":7858.77,"end":7860.77,"text":"他做得特別好的話"},{"start":7860.77,"end":7862.77,"text":"也應該要給予肯定"},{"start":7862.77,"end":7864.77,"text":"我們大學部分都會鼓勵"},{"start":7864.77,"end":7865.77,"text":"而且他這個如果做得好的話"},{"start":7865.77,"end":7867.77,"text":"將來他的那個申請的機會"},{"start":7867.77,"end":7869.77,"text":"我們會增加給予"},{"start":7869.77,"end":7872.77,"text":"那今天教育部跟研領會都在"},{"start":7872.77,"end":7875.77,"text":"本席要求教育部在兩個內"},{"start":7875.77,"end":7878.77,"text":"針對大專院校生根偏鄉"},{"start":7878.77,"end":7882.77,"text":"研鄉生成的AI教育跟USR"},{"start":7882.77,"end":7885.77,"text":"長期對這個方案提出一個"},{"start":7885.77,"end":7887.77,"text":"具體的研議報告"},{"start":7887.77,"end":7890.77,"text":"科技發展不能丟落任何的"},{"start":7890.77,"end":7893.77,"text":"一個研鄉的孩子好嗎"},{"start":7893.77,"end":7895.77,"text":"好 我們會後再把這個資料"},{"start":7895.77,"end":7897.77,"text":"我們兩個月嘛"},{"start":7897.77,"end":7899.77,"text":"兩個月我們希望就是能夠來"},{"start":7899.77,"end":7902.77,"text":"鼓勵大學的USR這樣的一個精神"},{"start":7902.77,"end":7904.77,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":7904.77,"end":7905.77,"text":"以上"},{"start":7905.77,"end":7907.77,"text":"好 謝謝賽遵丞委員的諮詢"},{"start":7907.77,"end":7909.77,"text":"請次長官員回座"},{"start":7909.77,"end":7911.77,"text":"剛才有宣告賽遵丞委員"},{"start":7911.77,"end":7913.77,"text":"諮詢完畢之後休息五分鐘"},{"start":7913.77,"end":7915.77,"text":"我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":8221.63,"end":8224.63,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會"},{"start":8224.63,"end":8227.63,"text":"接下來有請鄭天才委員進行詢答"},{"start":8237.16,"end":8239.16,"text":"主席 各位委員"},{"start":8239.16,"end":8244.16,"text":"有請教育部次長還有研議會的副主委"},{"start":8244.16,"end":8247.16,"text":"好 請張廖次長 杜張副主委"},{"start":8247.16,"end":8249.16,"text":"好 委員好"},{"start":8250.42,"end":8253.42,"text":"這個108年5月24號"},{"start":8253.42,"end":8255.42,"text":"立法院三讀修正"},{"start":8255.42,"end":8256.42,"text":"前文修正"},{"start":8256.42,"end":8258.42,"text":"嚴重民族教育法"},{"start":8258.42,"end":8260.42,"text":"而當時"},{"start":8260.51,"end":8262.51,"text":"是開了很多次的會議之後"},{"start":8263.5,"end":8265.5,"text":"三讀通過"},{"start":8265.5,"end":8267.5,"text":"而行政院版本是在"},{"start":8267.5,"end":8269.5,"text":"三讀通過的前十幾天"},{"start":8271.18,"end":8273.18,"text":"送到了這個立法院"},{"start":8274.33,"end":8276.33,"text":"我們看行政院版"},{"start":8276.33,"end":8278.33,"text":"嚴重民族教育法"},{"start":8277.99,"end":8278.99,"text":"第15條"},{"start":8279.73,"end":8280.73,"text":"當初也提出"},{"start":8281.37,"end":8283.37,"text":"設立各級嚴重民族學校"},{"start":8284.51,"end":8286.51,"text":"前嚴重民族學校設立思想"},{"start":8286.51,"end":8288.51,"text":"另以法律定制"},{"start":8289.67,"end":8291.67,"text":"108年"},{"start":8292.56,"end":8293.56,"text":"公佈施行"},{"start":8293.56,"end":8296.56,"text":"5月24號公佈施行到現在"},{"start":8296.56,"end":8298.56,"text":"已經非常多年了"},{"start":8299.8,"end":8300.8,"text":"我們看這個"},{"start":8302.09,"end":8303.09,"text":"嚴重民族教育法"},{"start":8303.9,"end":8304.9,"text":"第四條"},{"start":8304.9,"end":8305.9,"text":"第一項第四款"},{"start":8307.37,"end":8309.37,"text":"嚴重民族學校的定義"},{"start":8310.36,"end":8313.36,"text":"以嚴重民族知識體系為主"},{"start":8313.36,"end":8316.36,"text":"依該民族教育哲學以目標"},{"start":8316.36,"end":8318.36,"text":"實施教育之學校"},{"start":8321.75,"end":8323.75,"text":"嚴重民族教育法第七條"},{"start":8324.23,"end":8326.23,"text":"中央教育主管機關"},{"start":8326.23,"end":8328.23,"text":"與中央嚴重民族主管機關"},{"start":8328.23,"end":8332.23,"text":"應共同召開嚴重民族教育政策會"},{"start":8334.44,"end":8336.44,"text":"這個政策會要"},{"start":8337.29,"end":8340.29,"text":"相關的規劃諮詢包含了"},{"start":8340.29,"end":8341.29,"text":"第二"},{"start":8341.09,"end":8345.09,"text":"見過嚴重民族知識體系中長程期晚"},{"start":8345.09,"end":8346.09,"text":"所以這個部分是"},{"start":8347.92,"end":8350.92,"text":"嚴重民族知識體系的建構"},{"start":8352.43,"end":8353.43,"text":"這個是教育"},{"start":8353.97,"end":8355.97,"text":"不跟研民會共同"},{"start":8356.82,"end":8358.82,"text":"嚴重民族教育法第七條"},{"start":8358.82,"end":8360.82,"text":"中央教育主管機關"},{"start":8360.82,"end":8362.82,"text":"與中央教育政策會"},{"start":8362.82,"end":8364.82,"text":"相關的規劃諮詢包含了"},{"start":8364.82,"end":8367.82,"text":"嚴重民族知識體系中長程期晚"},{"start":8367.82,"end":8368.82,"text":"所以這個政策會"},{"start":8368.82,"end":8370.82,"text":"相關的規劃諮詢包含了"},{"start":8370.82,"end":8373.82,"text":"嚴重民族知識體系中長程期晚"},{"start":8373.82,"end":8374.82,"text":"所以這個政策會"},{"start":8374.82,"end":8376.82,"text":"相關的規劃諮詢包含了"},{"start":8376.82,"end":8379.82,"text":"嚴重民族知識體系中長程期晚"},{"start":8379.82,"end":8380.82,"text":"所以這個政策會"},{"start":8380.82,"end":8382.82,"text":"相關的規劃諮詢包含了"},{"start":8382.82,"end":8385.82,"text":"嚴重民族知識體系中長程期晚"},{"start":8357.46,"end":8359.46,"text":"召開這樣的一個"},{"start":8359.46,"end":8362.46,"text":"很重要的議題"},{"start":8364.39,"end":8366.39,"text":"我要談的是說"},{"start":8366.39,"end":8370.39,"text":"從108年5月20日公佈施行之後"},{"start":8370.39,"end":8372.39,"text":"事實上立法院"},{"start":8373.24,"end":8375.24,"text":"在109年5月21日"},{"start":8376.48,"end":8379.48,"text":"就審查過嚴重民族學教法"},{"start":8381.4,"end":8383.4,"text":"而且還開了兩次"},{"start":8385.37,"end":8386.37,"text":"審查了兩次"},{"start":8390.08,"end":8392.08,"text":"我們看這個教育部的報告"},{"start":8394.33,"end":8395.33,"text":"那個茶餃"},{"start":8396.59,"end":8398.59,"text":"這個教育部的報告裡面"},{"start":8398.59,"end":8399.59,"text":"他支持"},{"start":8399.59,"end":8402.59,"text":"支持嚴重民族學校之設立"},{"start":8404.84,"end":8405.84,"text":"而且特本提到"},{"start":8407.02,"end":8408.02,"text":"主管機關"},{"start":8408.4,"end":8411.4,"text":"要應該維持嚴重民族委員會"},{"start":8412.07,"end":8413.07,"text":"所謂的維持"},{"start":8414.23,"end":8416.23,"text":"次長你所謂的維持"},{"start":8416.23,"end":8418.23,"text":"並不是立法院的決議"},{"start":8418.23,"end":8422.23,"text":"也不是嚴重民族教育法的規定"},{"start":8423.07,"end":8424.07,"text":"施行證諺"},{"start":8425.08,"end":8428.08,"text":"召開會議之後所做的決定"},{"start":8430.06,"end":8431.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8431.06,"end":8432.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8432.06,"end":8433.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8433.06,"end":8434.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8434.06,"end":8435.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8435.06,"end":8436.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8436.06,"end":8437.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8437.06,"end":8438.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8438.06,"end":8439.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8439.06,"end":8440.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8440.06,"end":8441.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8441.06,"end":8442.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8442.06,"end":8443.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8443.06,"end":8444.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8444.06,"end":8445.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8445.06,"end":8446.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8446.06,"end":8447.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8447.06,"end":8448.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8448.06,"end":8449.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8449.06,"end":8450.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8450.06,"end":8451.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8451.06,"end":8452.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8452.06,"end":8453.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8453.06,"end":8454.06,"text":"就這樣"},{"start":8454.06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非常非常重"},{"start":8950.5,"end":8952.5,"text":"他說如果是正是這樣的話"},{"start":8952.5,"end":8954.5,"text":"搞不好剛好生小孩"},{"start":8954.5,"end":8956.5,"text":"請育嬰假"},{"start":8956.5,"end":8958.5,"text":"不然就是請留職停薪"},{"start":8958.5,"end":8960.5,"text":"甚至於會造成正式老師"},{"start":8960.5,"end":8962.5,"text":"的請假潮"},{"start":8962.5,"end":8964.5,"text":"我覺得這不必要去重視這件事情"},{"start":8964.5,"end":8966.5,"text":"等一下再跟你討論"},{"start":8966.5,"end":8968.5,"text":"那我先講幾個"},{"start":8968.5,"end":8970.5,"text":"最近社會上發生大家很關注的事件"},{"start":8970.5,"end":8972.5,"text":"是跟老師有關的"},{"start":8972.5,"end":8974.5,"text":"就是一直有老師被特教生攻擊"},{"start":8974.5,"end":8976.5,"text":"特別是在前一兩個禮拜"},{"start":8976.5,"end":8978.5,"text":"台中這個狀況"},{"start":8978.5,"end":8980.5,"text":"有一個是國一"},{"start":8980.5,"end":8982.5,"text":"暑假班"},{"start":8982.5,"end":8984.5,"text":"有一個老師就被國一的男學生"},{"start":8984.5,"end":8986.5,"text":"用掃把折斷"},{"start":8986.5,"end":8988.5,"text":"然後去刺傷眼睛"},{"start":8988.5,"end":8990.5,"text":"現在有失明的可能"},{"start":8990.5,"end":8992.5,"text":"這是一個"},{"start":8992.5,"end":8994.5,"text":"第二個我們有看到台北市"},{"start":8994.5,"end":8996.5,"text":"之前也有大概在"},{"start":8996.5,"end":8998.5,"text":"上個月吧 也有議員揭露"},{"start":8998.5,"end":9000.5,"text":"有一個學生"},{"start":9000.5,"end":9002.5,"text":"也是特教的 他從國一開始"},{"start":9002.5,"end":9004.5,"text":"現在已經要生"},{"start":9004.5,"end":9006.5,"text":"對不起是小一 從小一開始"},{"start":9006.5,"end":9008.5,"text":"現在要生小五了"},{"start":9008.5,"end":9010.5,"text":"這四年來全校校安通報大概"},{"start":9010.5,"end":9012.5,"text":"100多次"},{"start":9012.5,"end":9014.5,"text":"然後其中也有攻擊同學"},{"start":9014.5,"end":9016.5,"text":"攻擊老師13次"},{"start":9016.5,"end":9018.5,"text":"破壞公務18次"},{"start":9018.5,"end":9020.5,"text":"同學跟老師都受到"},{"start":9020.5,"end":9022.5,"text":"極大壓力"},{"start":9022.5,"end":9024.5,"text":"然後小三跟小四老師"},{"start":9024.5,"end":9026.5,"text":"身心都受到很大的壓力"},{"start":9026.5,"end":9028.5,"text":"有的一個老師疑似有自殘"},{"start":9028.5,"end":9030.5,"text":"的顧慮"},{"start":9030.5,"end":9032.5,"text":"另外一個老師有受傷"},{"start":9032.5,"end":9034.5,"text":"那現在他生小五"},{"start":9034.5,"end":9036.5,"text":"我聽說啦"},{"start":9036.5,"end":9038.5,"text":"大家都很害怕跟他同班"},{"start":9038.5,"end":9040.5,"text":"所以有三個學生已經轉學了"},{"start":9041.03,"end":9043.03,"text":"然後"},{"start":9043.03,"end":9045.03,"text":"還有一個一起講一下"},{"start":9045.03,"end":9047.03,"text":"這是昨天"},{"start":9047.03,"end":9049.03,"text":"一個新聞 2024年台北有一個"},{"start":9049.03,"end":9051.03,"text":"老師也是被"},{"start":9051.68,"end":9053.68,"text":"特教生攻擊"},{"start":9053.68,"end":9055.68,"text":"那這個影片當時"},{"start":9055.68,"end":9057.68,"text":"在網路上有流傳"},{"start":9057.68,"end":9059.68,"text":"我不知道市長那時候有沒有看到"},{"start":9059.68,"end":9061.68,"text":"就是這個"},{"start":9061.68,"end":9063.68,"text":"學生因為不服老師的管教"},{"start":9063.68,"end":9065.68,"text":"後來對老師吐口水 毆打老師"},{"start":9065.68,"end":9067.68,"text":"後來是全班同學"},{"start":9067.68,"end":9069.68,"text":"去保護老師"},{"start":9069.68,"end":9071.68,"text":"叫老師趕快離開 其實我那時候看到這個影片"},{"start":9071.68,"end":9073.68,"text":"我也覺得還蠻難過"},{"start":9073.68,"end":9075.68,"text":"因為當時教育部在推普特融合"},{"start":9075.68,"end":9077.68,"text":"是希望說"},{"start":9077.68,"end":9079.68,"text":"這些特教生日後總是要在社會"},{"start":9079.68,"end":9081.68,"text":"所以希望說他可以早日設"},{"start":9081.68,"end":9083.68,"text":"就是不要好像把他"},{"start":9083.68,"end":9085.68,"text":"隔離 讓他在普通班裡面"},{"start":9085.68,"end":9087.68,"text":"去適應這個狀況"},{"start":9087.68,"end":9089.68,"text":"可是實際上這樣的一個情形造成"},{"start":9089.68,"end":9091.68,"text":"他反而被歧視"},{"start":9091.68,"end":9093.68,"text":"因為其他同學說老師趕快離開"},{"start":9093.68,"end":9095.68,"text":"他就是這樣子 就是有很多歧視性的語言"},{"start":9095.68,"end":9097.68,"text":"我們不想要他被歧視"},{"start":9097.68,"end":9099.68,"text":"但是現在的做法就是"},{"start":9099.68,"end":9101.68,"text":"造成他被歧視"},{"start":9101.68,"end":9103.68,"text":"那我現在是想要問市長"},{"start":9103.68,"end":9105.68,"text":"就是最近一連串發生這麼多"},{"start":9105.68,"end":9107.68,"text":"類似的事件"},{"start":9107.45,"end":9109.45,"text":"特別是針對"},{"start":9109.45,"end":9111.45,"text":"有攻擊性的"},{"start":9110.98,"end":9112.98,"text":"沒有攻擊性的 不是不在我們討論的範圍之內"},{"start":9112.98,"end":9114.98,"text":"就是有攻擊性的"},{"start":9114.98,"end":9116.98,"text":"這一種"},{"start":9116.98,"end":9118.98,"text":"會造成老師失明的"},{"start":9118.98,"end":9120.98,"text":"造成老師被打的"},{"start":9120.98,"end":9122.98,"text":"造成同學被攻擊的"},{"start":9122.98,"end":9124.98,"text":"這一種"},{"start":9124.98,"end":9126.98,"text":"攻擊性的特色"},{"start":9126.98,"end":9128.98,"text":"現在教育部有什麼具體的"},{"start":9130.22,"end":9132.22,"text":"做法嗎 還是說"},{"start":9132.22,"end":9134.22,"text":"也沒有什麼在理"},{"start":9134.22,"end":9136.22,"text":"有關普特融合"},{"start":9136.22,"end":9138.22,"text":"這個部分產生的問題"},{"start":9138.22,"end":9140.22,"text":"我們現在在朝兩個方向"},{"start":9140.22,"end":9142.22,"text":"一個就是增加人力"},{"start":9142.22,"end":9144.22,"text":"增加人力的方面其實"},{"start":9144.22,"end":9146.22,"text":"包括豬年降低"},{"start":9146.22,"end":9148.22,"text":"特教班的師生比以外"},{"start":9148.22,"end":9150.22,"text":"113年到114年"},{"start":9150.22,"end":9152.22,"text":"我們大概"},{"start":9152.22,"end":9154.22,"text":"特教教師已經增加了1235位"},{"start":9154.22,"end":9156.22,"text":"那特教助理是從"},{"start":9156.22,"end":9158.22,"text":"113年分4年"},{"start":9158.22,"end":9160.22,"text":"增加月薪制的學生助理員"},{"start":9160.22,"end":9162.22,"text":"這樣"},{"start":9162.22,"end":9164.22,"text":"針對我的問題回答"},{"start":9164.22,"end":9166.22,"text":"因為你講的"},{"start":9166.22,"end":9168.22,"text":"比如說特教老師或什麼"},{"start":9168.22,"end":9170.22,"text":"他可能針對一般的特生 這不是我現在要討論的範圍"},{"start":9170.22,"end":9172.22,"text":"我現在是針對有攻擊性的"},{"start":9172.22,"end":9174.22,"text":"像這種有攻擊性的"},{"start":9174.22,"end":9176.22,"text":"特生"},{"start":9176.22,"end":9178.22,"text":"並不是你增加老師"},{"start":9178.22,"end":9180.22,"text":"或增加助理"},{"start":9180.22,"end":9182.22,"text":"助理特教員就可以解決的"},{"start":9182.22,"end":9184.22,"text":"絕對不是"},{"start":9184.22,"end":9186.22,"text":"我相信他從 比如說我剛舉台北的例子"},{"start":9186.22,"end":9188.22,"text":"他從小一開始就是這樣"},{"start":9188.22,"end":9190.22,"text":"一定是被高度關注"},{"start":9190.22,"end":9192.22,"text":"全校一定針對他"},{"start":9192.22,"end":9194.22,"text":"有做特別的個案研究"},{"start":9194.22,"end":9196.22,"text":"但是就是沒有辦法處理"},{"start":9196.22,"end":9198.22,"text":"特別就針對攻擊性"},{"start":9198.22,"end":9200.22,"text":"因為你講的太普遍了"},{"start":9200.22,"end":9202.22,"text":"不會沒有辦法回答到我的問題"},{"start":9202.22,"end":9204.22,"text":"針對攻擊性的特教生"},{"start":9204.22,"end":9206.22,"text":"到底要怎麼處理"},{"start":9207.28,"end":9209.28,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":9209.28,"end":9211.28,"text":"剛剛委員提到兩個案例我們有分析過"},{"start":9211.28,"end":9213.28,"text":"大致上都是在銜接的時候"},{"start":9213.28,"end":9215.28,"text":"產生的一些問題"},{"start":9215.28,"end":9217.28,"text":"比如剛講到高中的部分是因為"},{"start":9217.28,"end":9219.28,"text":"老師請假代理教師加入的時候"},{"start":9219.28,"end":9221.28,"text":"並不知道這個孩子的狀況"},{"start":9221.28,"end":9223.28,"text":"所產生的這個"},{"start":9223.28,"end":9225.28,"text":"當時的這個狀況"},{"start":9225.28,"end":9227.28,"text":"那國小六"},{"start":9227.28,"end":9229.28,"text":"台中這個小六生國一的時候"},{"start":9229.28,"end":9231.28,"text":"他也是在暑期"},{"start":9231.28,"end":9233.28,"text":"我們上個禮拜其實也跟台中市有開"},{"start":9233.28,"end":9235.28,"text":"有跟各縣市開會"},{"start":9235.28,"end":9237.28,"text":"他們其實提到對這個孩子"},{"start":9237.28,"end":9239.28,"text":"入學之後相關協助本來也準備好了"},{"start":9239.28,"end":9241.28,"text":"可是因為主要他是在"},{"start":9241.28,"end":9243.28,"text":"暑假期間所以相關的"},{"start":9243.28,"end":9245.28,"text":"應用機制還沒開始"},{"start":9245.28,"end":9247.28,"text":"我覺得大家不要再唱高調"},{"start":9247.28,"end":9249.28,"text":"這絕對不是銜接的問題"},{"start":9249.28,"end":9251.28,"text":"如果是銜接的問題的話為什麼"},{"start":9251.28,"end":9253.28,"text":"一個特生攻擊性的特生"},{"start":9253.28,"end":9255.28,"text":"他可以從小一開始一直到"},{"start":9255.28,"end":9257.28,"text":"小五都這樣"},{"start":9257.59,"end":9259.59,"text":"小一到小五都這樣這怎麼會有銜接問題"},{"start":9259.59,"end":9261.59,"text":"全校都認識他了"},{"start":9261.59,"end":9263.59,"text":"不要說全校啦"},{"start":9263.59,"end":9265.59,"text":"連其他還沒入學的"},{"start":9265.59,"end":9267.59,"text":"學生的家長都知道這個"},{"start":9267.59,"end":9269.59,"text":"赫赫有名啊"},{"start":9269.59,"end":9271.59,"text":"所以這絕對不會是銜接的問題啦"},{"start":9271.59,"end":9273.59,"text":"絕對不會是銜接的問題"},{"start":9273.59,"end":9275.59,"text":"那委員我們可以再補充一下嗎"},{"start":9276.66,"end":9278.66,"text":"那委員剛剛提到"},{"start":9278.66,"end":9280.66,"text":"因為確實在學校裡面面對這樣的孩子"},{"start":9280.66,"end":9282.66,"text":"本來是"},{"start":9282.66,"end":9284.66,"text":"都是非常辛苦的"},{"start":9284.66,"end":9286.66,"text":"那我們從113學年度"},{"start":9286.66,"end":9288.66,"text":"開始也幫忙縣市"},{"start":9288.66,"end":9290.66,"text":"在培養的是情緒"},{"start":9290.66,"end":9292.66,"text":"行為支持的老師"},{"start":9292.66,"end":9294.66,"text":"那老師也能夠面對這個"},{"start":9294.66,"end":9296.66,"text":"孩子他也是要有一定的專業"},{"start":9296.66,"end":9298.66,"text":"那我們目前培養了331個"},{"start":9298.66,"end":9300.66,"text":"那同時國教署也成立了"},{"start":9300.66,"end":9302.66,"text":"情緒支持服務中心"},{"start":9302.66,"end":9304.66,"text":"然後也協助22縣市"},{"start":9304.66,"end":9306.66,"text":"都有情緒的團隊"},{"start":9306.66,"end":9308.66,"text":"因為時間不夠了"},{"start":9308.66,"end":9310.66,"text":"你現在講的都是我們培養多少老師"},{"start":9310.66,"end":9312.66,"text":"多少情緒性的老師"},{"start":9312.66,"end":9314.66,"text":"可是我覺得以現實來看"},{"start":9314.66,"end":9316.66,"text":"就是沒有打到效"},{"start":9316.66,"end":9318.66,"text":"因為你們一直講說是老師不夠"},{"start":9318.66,"end":9320.66,"text":"或者是老師的問題"},{"start":9320.66,"end":9322.66,"text":"包括我們來看一下跟你們最棒的"},{"start":9322.66,"end":9324.66,"text":"一直在引導你們教育政策的人本基金會"},{"start":9324.66,"end":9326.66,"text":"當那個台中老師"},{"start":9326.66,"end":9328.66,"text":"被攻擊到快失明的時候"},{"start":9328.66,"end":9330.66,"text":"他說什麼咧"},{"start":9330.66,"end":9332.66,"text":"他說學生要面對什麼事件壓力點在哪"},{"start":9332.66,"end":9334.66,"text":"老師的情緒是什麼情緒是什麼"},{"start":9334.66,"end":9336.66,"text":"這些老師都要知道啊"},{"start":9336.66,"end":9338.66,"text":"所以老師在教育現場要了解學生的相關記錄"},{"start":9338.66,"end":9340.66,"text":"應該要連結學校支持系統"},{"start":9340.66,"end":9342.66,"text":"什麼要輔導合作"},{"start":9342.66,"end":9344.66,"text":"結果這個人本基金會"},{"start":9344.66,"end":9346.66,"text":"這樣的發言在第一線"},{"start":9346.66,"end":9348.66,"text":"被所有第一線老師罵爆"},{"start":9348.66,"end":9350.66,"text":"為什麼 因為這就完全不了解"},{"start":9350.66,"end":9352.66,"text":"第一線的狀況"},{"start":9352.66,"end":9354.66,"text":"所以你們現在的做法就跟人本一樣"},{"start":9354.66,"end":9356.66,"text":"就是說就是老師的問題"},{"start":9356.66,"end":9358.66,"text":"老師不了解他的情緒"},{"start":9358.66,"end":9360.66,"text":"老師不了解他的個案"},{"start":9360.66,"end":9362.66,"text":"老師不能去運用這個支持系統"},{"start":9362.66,"end":9364.66,"text":"老師沒辦法處理他的情緒"},{"start":9364.66,"end":9366.66,"text":"可是在第一線就是一直發生這樣的狀況"},{"start":9366.66,"end":9368.66,"text":"所以我真的"},{"start":9368.66,"end":9370.66,"text":"強力的建議"},{"start":9370.66,"end":9372.66,"text":"三件事"},{"start":9372.66,"end":9374.66,"text":"我給三個建議"},{"start":9374.66,"end":9376.66,"text":"第一個建議請你們真的去好好的"},{"start":9376.66,"end":9378.66,"text":"跟第一線的老師溝通一下"},{"start":9378.66,"end":9380.66,"text":"到底這個教育現場是遇到什麼狀況"},{"start":9380.66,"end":9382.66,"text":"不要只聽這些唱高調的團體"},{"start":9384.4,"end":9386.4,"text":"的做法"},{"start":9386.4,"end":9388.4,"text":"可不可以去關心一下第一線的老師"},{"start":9389.6,"end":9391.6,"text":"關心一下第一線老師"},{"start":9391.6,"end":9393.6,"text":"到底他們怎麼看"},{"start":9393.6,"end":9395.6,"text":"面對這種有攻擊性的特徵"},{"start":9395.6,"end":9397.6,"text":"到底應該要怎麼做"},{"start":9397.6,"end":9399.6,"text":"這是第一件事 建議"},{"start":9399.6,"end":9401.6,"text":"第二個建議"},{"start":9401.01,"end":9403.01,"text":"剛剛我們看到"},{"start":9403.01,"end":9405.01,"text":"2024年那個台北的老師"},{"start":9405.01,"end":9407.01,"text":"他被攻擊 他現在提告了"},{"start":9407.01,"end":9409.01,"text":"結果提告了當然他勝訴"},{"start":9409.01,"end":9411.01,"text":"因為我要坦白講"},{"start":9411.01,"end":9413.01,"text":"在教育現場 老師去告學生"},{"start":9413.01,"end":9415.01,"text":"都是很痛苦的一個抉擇"},{"start":9415.01,"end":9417.01,"text":"因為我知道很多老師被攻擊之後都不想要提告"},{"start":9417.01,"end":9419.01,"text":"但是有的老師覺得"},{"start":9419.01,"end":9421.01,"text":"要透過提告來捍衛自己的尊嚴"},{"start":9421.01,"end":9423.01,"text":"那這個老師求償"},{"start":9423.01,"end":9425.01,"text":"102萬 最後"},{"start":9425.01,"end":9427.01,"text":"法院判決是學生及母親"},{"start":9427.01,"end":9429.01,"text":"連帶賠償10萬"},{"start":9429.01,"end":9431.01,"text":"但其中10萬根本不夠"},{"start":9431.01,"end":9433.01,"text":"老師的律師費"},{"start":9433.01,"end":9435.01,"text":"律師費是20萬"},{"start":9435.01,"end":9437.01,"text":"因為那時候法院認為說這個律師費是"},{"start":9437.01,"end":9439.01,"text":"老師為了尋求個人權益"},{"start":9439.01,"end":9441.01,"text":"的必要性的支出不應該是屬於"},{"start":9441.01,"end":9443.01,"text":"賠償的範圍"},{"start":9443.01,"end":9445.01,"text":"現在韓國有成立一個教權局"},{"start":9445.01,"end":9447.01,"text":"教育部應該知道"},{"start":9447.01,"end":9449.01,"text":"教權局基本上是給老師兩個"},{"start":9449.01,"end":9451.01,"text":"支持 一個是行政"},{"start":9451.01,"end":9453.01,"text":"支持就是心理上的支持"},{"start":9453.01,"end":9455.01,"text":"老師當面對這種被學生霸凌"},{"start":9455.01,"end":9457.01,"text":"或毆打的狀況"},{"start":9457.01,"end":9459.01,"text":"因為台灣其實很多老師是獨自面對"},{"start":9459.01,"end":9461.01,"text":"因為學校有時候擔心被家長"},{"start":9461.78,"end":9463.78,"text":"擔心家長壓力所以對老師可能你不會"},{"start":9464.7,"end":9466.7,"text":"突顯出很大的支持否則又會被認為說"},{"start":9466.7,"end":9468.7,"text":"是私相護"},{"start":9468.7,"end":9470.7,"text":"那所以"},{"start":9469.67,"end":9471.67,"text":"有很多老師在面對這種狀況"},{"start":9471.67,"end":9473.67,"text":"是很孤單的 我覺得教育部"},{"start":9473.67,"end":9475.67,"text":"應該也可以仿造韓國"},{"start":9475.67,"end":9477.67,"text":"的做法 第一個給予心理"},{"start":9477.67,"end":9479.67,"text":"跟行政支持 第二個給法律的支持"},{"start":9479.67,"end":9481.67,"text":"就是當老師真的被毆打"},{"start":9481.67,"end":9483.67,"text":"要提告的話其實這個律師"},{"start":9483.67,"end":9485.67,"text":"應該我覺得國家應該要協助"},{"start":9485.67,"end":9487.67,"text":"因為老師畢竟是義務教育"},{"start":9487.67,"end":9489.67,"text":"他是幫國家執行義務"},{"start":9489.67,"end":9491.67,"text":"教育的工作 這是廣義"},{"start":9491.67,"end":9493.67,"text":"他就是公務人員啊 那他"},{"start":9493.67,"end":9495.67,"text":"他在職場面對這個狀況難道"},{"start":9495.67,"end":9497.67,"text":"我覺得國家不應該在法律上給"},{"start":9497.67,"end":9499.67,"text":"教育部給予支持嗎 所以這個"},{"start":9499.67,"end":9501.67,"text":"這個我覺得教育部可以"},{"start":9501.62,"end":9503.62,"text":"現在有這個規劃嗎"},{"start":9503.62,"end":9505.62,"text":"那委員再補充一下"},{"start":9505.62,"end":9507.62,"text":"你先回答我的問題就好 有這個"},{"start":9507.62,"end":9509.62,"text":"支持的規劃嗎"},{"start":9509.62,"end":9511.62,"text":"我們現在有一個"},{"start":9511.62,"end":9513.62,"text":"執行原則 上個禮拜跟"},{"start":9513.62,"end":9515.62,"text":"我們沒有找其他民間團體"},{"start":9515.62,"end":9517.62,"text":"主要是找輔助中心跟我們的情資中心"},{"start":9517.62,"end":9519.62,"text":"還有縣市 那也"},{"start":9519.62,"end":9521.62,"text":"跟委員剛所提到的一樣"},{"start":9521.62,"end":9523.62,"text":"我們把原則再深化"},{"start":9523.62,"end":9525.62,"text":"變成指引 那可以讓"},{"start":9525.62,"end":9527.62,"text":"老師知道如果這些狀況的時候"},{"start":9527.62,"end":9529.62,"text":"我說律師費"},{"start":9529.62,"end":9531.62,"text":"法律支持我們本來就在"},{"start":9531.62,"end":9533.62,"text":"研擬要協助"},{"start":9533.62,"end":9535.62,"text":"本來研擬大概什麼時候上路"},{"start":9535.62,"end":9537.62,"text":"那我們會後再跟委員講"},{"start":9537.62,"end":9539.62,"text":"為什麼會後 我現在質詢為什麼會後"},{"start":9539.62,"end":9541.62,"text":"你現在講就好啦 預計明年上路"},{"start":9541.62,"end":9543.62,"text":"預計明年上路喔 因為什麼時候"},{"start":9543.62,"end":9545.62,"text":"就是說 具體做法是什麼"},{"start":9546.69,"end":9548.69,"text":"法律諮詢跟"},{"start":9548.69,"end":9550.69,"text":"不是諮詢啦 就是說當老師在"},{"start":9550.69,"end":9552.69,"text":"現場面對到這樣狀況"},{"start":9552.69,"end":9554.69,"text":"像我現在舉的台北市這個案例"},{"start":9554.69,"end":9556.69,"text":"這個老師被打"},{"start":9556.69,"end":9558.69,"text":"被打提告 這個律師費就20萬"},{"start":9559.03,"end":9561.03,"text":"那其實他提告 對"},{"start":9561.03,"end":9563.03,"text":"是幫他捍衛他的尊嚴 可是實際上"},{"start":9563.03,"end":9565.03,"text":"他所付出的財務"},{"start":9565.03,"end":9567.03,"text":"還比較多 那這個部分"},{"start":9567.03,"end":9569.03,"text":"國家不能給予這些老師支持"},{"start":9569.03,"end":9571.03,"text":"對 我們現在在研議中啦"},{"start":9571.03,"end":9573.03,"text":"會朝這個方向研議 朝這個方向是不是"},{"start":9573.03,"end":9575.03,"text":"如果他的那個行為是發生在"},{"start":9575.03,"end":9577.03,"text":"他的那個 就是 那一個月給一個"},{"start":9577.03,"end":9579.03,"text":"研議的結果好不好 一個月給一個"},{"start":9579.03,"end":9581.03,"text":"研議的結果 然後再來"},{"start":9581.69,"end":9583.69,"text":"還有最後一個建議喔"},{"start":9583.69,"end":9585.69,"text":"因為我每次都看到這個人本基金會都很會講"},{"start":9585.69,"end":9587.69,"text":"都講一大堆"},{"start":9587.69,"end":9589.69,"text":"感覺他很想要來"},{"start":9589.69,"end":9591.69,"text":"協助 來處理這些事情"},{"start":9591.69,"end":9593.69,"text":"那人本基金會"},{"start":9593.69,"end":9595.69,"text":"辦學 據說很貴啦"},{"start":9595.69,"end":9597.69,"text":"一學期18萬"},{"start":9597.69,"end":9599.69,"text":"18萬 他"},{"start":9599.69,"end":9601.69,"text":"這個 師生比1比5"},{"start":9602.99,"end":9606.99,"text":"就是說用的 這種自己用這麼高的學費篩選學生"},{"start":9606.99,"end":9608.99,"text":"然後又一直指三道四 我是建議"},{"start":9608.99,"end":9610.99,"text":"是不是像這種有攻擊性的"},{"start":9611.58,"end":9613.58,"text":"這些特生"},{"start":9613.38,"end":9615.38,"text":"是不是教育部幫忙媒合一下"},{"start":9615.38,"end":9617.38,"text":"看看是不是也幫忙補助一下"},{"start":9617.38,"end":9619.38,"text":"教給人本的學校"},{"start":9619.38,"end":9621.38,"text":"就是大家可以去"},{"start":9621.38,"end":9623.38,"text":"因為他那麼厲害嘛 那就請他們來"},{"start":9623.38,"end":9625.38,"text":"這個教學一下"},{"start":9625.38,"end":9627.38,"text":"那因為他學費比較貴 那看這教育部是"},{"start":9627.38,"end":9629.38,"text":"是請他們針對這些"},{"start":9629.38,"end":9631.38,"text":"這樣第一點還是說"},{"start":9631.38,"end":9633.38,"text":"要補助還怎麼樣 我覺得這個"},{"start":9633.38,"end":9635.38,"text":"我也可以說服這個我們"},{"start":9635.38,"end":9637.38,"text":"黨的來支持 就是補助"},{"start":9637.38,"end":9639.38,"text":"來處理這個事情 因為畢竟"},{"start":9639.38,"end":9641.38,"text":"一個學校有這種攻擊性的特生"},{"start":9641.38,"end":9643.38,"text":"如果你是家長 大家將心比心啦"},{"start":9643.38,"end":9645.38,"text":"市長如果你的小孩"},{"start":9645.38,"end":9647.38,"text":"在這樣的一個班上"},{"start":9647.27,"end":9649.27,"text":"對不對 你一定很難受"},{"start":9649.27,"end":9652.27,"text":"我覺得要去 很積極去處理這件事情"},{"start":9652.27,"end":9654.27,"text":"這個你也研議一下好不好"},{"start":9655.59,"end":9656.09,"text":"你好"},{"start":9656.41,"end":9658.41,"text":"尊重委員的看法"},{"start":9658.41,"end":9660.41,"text":"因為這個民間團體"},{"start":9660.41,"end":9662.41,"text":"我是幫忙講解方啦"},{"start":9662.41,"end":9664.41,"text":"我是幫忙講解方"},{"start":9664.41,"end":9666.41,"text":"因為你們講的都是很高調"},{"start":9666.41,"end":9668.41,"text":"講了一大堆 但是常常在發生類似的事情"},{"start":9668.41,"end":9670.41,"text":"那這只是爆出來比較嚴重的"},{"start":9670.41,"end":9672.41,"text":"但我們一定知道說有一些有攻擊性的"},{"start":9672.41,"end":9674.41,"text":"他並沒有上刑問"},{"start":9674.41,"end":9676.41,"text":"可是可能也有"},{"start":9678.06,"end":9680.06,"text":"是個狀況 就是一個不定時炸彈"},{"start":9680.06,"end":9682.06,"text":"所以我們不能說假裝沒看到"},{"start":9682.06,"end":9684.06,"text":"所以我在幫你想解方"},{"start":9684.06,"end":9686.06,"text":"當你可以有更好的方法 當然我們也支持啦"},{"start":9686.06,"end":9688.06,"text":"可是我覺得你們現在所提出來"},{"start":9688.06,"end":9690.06,"text":"這些方法並沒有解決"},{"start":9690.06,"end":9692.06,"text":"現狀的問題啦"},{"start":9692.06,"end":9694.06,"text":"然後再來喔 這個"},{"start":9694.62,"end":9696.62,"text":"再請教一下"},{"start":9696.36,"end":9698.36,"text":"最近有一個學生團體"},{"start":9698.36,"end":9700.36,"text":"叫EDU"},{"start":9700.36,"end":9702.36,"text":"他做了一個針對108課綱的調查"},{"start":9703.26,"end":9705.26,"text":"提到了學習歷程檔案"},{"start":9705.26,"end":9707.26,"text":"因為現在上一次我有質詢學習歷程檔案"},{"start":9707.26,"end":9709.26,"text":"學測之後"},{"start":9709.26,"end":9711.26,"text":"學測之後"},{"start":9713.3,"end":9715.3,"text":"這次可以回答嗎 學習歷程檔案"},{"start":9715.3,"end":9717.3,"text":"問題"},{"start":9717.3,"end":9719.3,"text":"就是因為學測之後"},{"start":9719.3,"end":9721.3,"text":"很多學生他並沒有達到"},{"start":9722.16,"end":9724.16,"text":"學測標準"},{"start":9724.16,"end":9726.16,"text":"所以他們之前的學習歷程檔案"},{"start":9726.16,"end":9728.16,"text":"他們就認為用不到"},{"start":9728.16,"end":9730.16,"text":"所以有些老師就跟我反應就是說"},{"start":9730.16,"end":9732.16,"text":"那為什麼不能說"},{"start":9732.16,"end":9734.16,"text":"等到學測之後"},{"start":9734.16,"end":9736.16,"text":"再來上傳檔案"},{"start":9736.16,"end":9738.16,"text":"然後後來"},{"start":9738.16,"end":9740.16,"text":"教育部現在有一個做法"},{"start":9740.16,"end":9742.16,"text":"你們可以上傳PDF檔"},{"start":9742.16,"end":9744.16,"text":"就是有兩個選擇 對吧"},{"start":9744.16,"end":9746.16,"text":"一個是學習歷程檔案 另外一個是PDF檔案上傳"},{"start":9746.16,"end":9748.16,"text":"那"},{"start":9748.16,"end":9750.16,"text":"這個學生團體他的調查"},{"start":9750.16,"end":9752.16,"text":"顯示"},{"start":9752.16,"end":9754.16,"text":"因為PDF檔的上傳他是不需要師長認證"},{"start":9754.16,"end":9756.16,"text":"所以他們得知這樣一個做法之後"},{"start":9756.16,"end":9758.16,"text":"其實選擇PDF上傳的人"},{"start":9758.16,"end":9760.16,"text":"是蠻多的"},{"start":9760.16,"end":9762.16,"text":"然後再加上"},{"start":9762.64,"end":9764.64,"text":"學習歷程檔案"},{"start":9764.64,"end":9766.64,"text":"其實現在的提交率是非常"},{"start":9766.64,"end":9768.64,"text":"未提交率是非常高的"},{"start":9768.64,"end":9770.64,"text":"未提交率是非常高"},{"start":9770.64,"end":9772.64,"text":"所以我不知道"},{"start":9772.64,"end":9774.64,"text":"因為從我上次在提到這個學習歷程檔案的事情"},{"start":9774.64,"end":9776.64,"text":"到現在也好幾個月了"},{"start":9777.68,"end":9779.68,"text":"學習歷程檔案這件事情"},{"start":9779.68,"end":9781.68,"text":"到底你們現在有沒有一個比較"},{"start":9781.86,"end":9783.86,"text":"完整的看法 到底是應該要繼續嗎"},{"start":9783.86,"end":9785.86,"text":"就是一個制度"},{"start":9785.86,"end":9787.86,"text":"執行到現在"},{"start":9787.86,"end":9789.86,"text":"這麼多的問題 而且學生也不想要用"},{"start":9789.86,"end":9791.86,"text":"那很多老師也反應說"},{"start":9791.86,"end":9793.86,"text":"好像達不到效果"},{"start":9793.86,"end":9795.86,"text":"那你們還要繼續嗎 這個學習歷程檔案"},{"start":9796.41,"end":9798.41,"text":"根據我們的大學"},{"start":9798.41,"end":9800.41,"text":"招生專業化的相關"},{"start":9800.41,"end":9802.41,"text":"研究團隊來調查"},{"start":9802.41,"end":9804.41,"text":"其實每個學期"},{"start":9804.41,"end":9806.41,"text":"學生提交EP的比例"},{"start":9806.41,"end":9808.41,"text":"都有高達八成以上"},{"start":9808.41,"end":9810.41,"text":"雖然有些微的下滑"},{"start":9810.41,"end":9812.41,"text":"但是如果就"},{"start":9812.41,"end":9814.41,"text":"這些學生用"},{"start":9814.41,"end":9816.41,"text":"所謂的學習歷程檔案"},{"start":9816.41,"end":9818.41,"text":"來申請入學的話"},{"start":9818.41,"end":9820.41,"text":"基本上那個相關性"},{"start":9820.41,"end":9822.41,"text":"那他們是有高度關聯的"},{"start":9822.41,"end":9824.41,"text":"就是說用EP來申"},{"start":9824.41,"end":9826.41,"text":"作為他們申學的一個依據的時候"},{"start":9826.41,"end":9828.41,"text":"在申請入學的管道"},{"start":9828.41,"end":9830.41,"text":"他們會獲得入取的比例"},{"start":9830.41,"end":9832.41,"text":"是有證相關的"},{"start":9832.41,"end":9834.41,"text":"所以這個部分我們也根據"},{"start":9834.41,"end":9836.41,"text":"上次委員的提示"},{"start":9836.41,"end":9838.41,"text":"我們有做了幾個檢討"},{"start":9838.41,"end":9840.41,"text":"如何將所謂的學習歷程檔案裡的"},{"start":9840.41,"end":9842.41,"text":"內容可以作為精簡簡化"},{"start":9842.41,"end":9844.41,"text":"讓學生更"},{"start":9844.41,"end":9846.41,"text":"知道說大學端"},{"start":9846.41,"end":9848.41,"text":"在審查的時候看重"},{"start":9848.41,"end":9850.41,"text":"是什麼樣的一些成果的表現"},{"start":9850.41,"end":9852.41,"text":"這個其實我們都有在研議當中"},{"start":9853.39,"end":9855.39,"text":"什麼研議當中你這樣好空喔"},{"start":9856.11,"end":9858.11,"text":"你現在講的是學習歷程檔案"},{"start":9858.56,"end":9860.56,"text":"對於申學有幫助"},{"start":9860.56,"end":9862.56,"text":"目前的"},{"start":9862.56,"end":9864.56,"text":"為什麼我們得到的數據"},{"start":9864.56,"end":9866.56,"text":"繳交率是很低的"},{"start":9866.56,"end":9868.56,"text":"如果說對申學有幫助"},{"start":9868.56,"end":9870.56,"text":"那大家為什麼都不繳咧"},{"start":9870.72,"end":9872.72,"text":"委員其實我們的那個"},{"start":9872.72,"end":9874.72,"text":"然後第二個就是剛剛我也跟你講一個數據"},{"start":9874.72,"end":9876.72,"text":"就是你現在可以用PDF上傳嗎"},{"start":9878.93,"end":9880.93,"text":"然後PDF上傳是不需市長認證"},{"start":9880.93,"end":9882.93,"text":"所以超過半數的學生"},{"start":9882.93,"end":9884.93,"text":"他會選擇PDF上傳"},{"start":9884.93,"end":9886.93,"text":"所以我覺得你好像活在"},{"start":9886.93,"end":9888.93,"text":"跟學生是不同世界"},{"start":9888.93,"end":9890.93,"text":"實際上大學端"},{"start":9890.93,"end":9892.93,"text":"在審查的時候如果有看到"},{"start":9892.93,"end":9894.93,"text":"學生的EP"},{"start":9894.93,"end":9896.93,"text":"基本上都是有經過他們的老實驗證"},{"start":9896.93,"end":9898.93,"text":"那大學端的審查委員"},{"start":9898.93,"end":9900.93,"text":"也比較願意相似"},{"start":9900.93,"end":9902.93,"text":"這個是你在講的啦"},{"start":9902.93,"end":9904.93,"text":"很多大學的真實狀況就不是這樣"},{"start":9904.93,"end":9906.93,"text":"這都是你在粉絲太平的說法"},{"start":9906.93,"end":9908.93,"text":"你有做過實際上的調查"},{"start":9908.93,"end":9910.93,"text":"我們有大學專業化的專業辦公室"},{"start":9910.93,"end":9912.93,"text":"有幫我們"},{"start":9912.93,"end":9914.93,"text":"什麼確定你有什麼調查嗎"},{"start":9914.93,"end":9916.93,"text":"為什麼你講的東西"},{"start":9916.93,"end":9918.93,"text":"跟大家在實務上的理解都差那麼多"},{"start":9918.93,"end":9920.93,"text":"教育部面對問題解決問題"},{"start":9920.93,"end":9922.93,"text":"不要一直活在自己的世界好不好"},{"start":9922.93,"end":9924.93,"text":"你如果有什麼"},{"start":9924.93,"end":9926.93,"text":"你可不可以提供"},{"start":9926.93,"end":9928.93,"text":"我們會後提供相關的文件給你"},{"start":9928.93,"end":9930.93,"text":"什麼文件"},{"start":9930.93,"end":9932.93,"text":"我們專案辦公室"},{"start":9932.93,"end":9934.93,"text":"有相關的調查"},{"start":9934.93,"end":9936.93,"text":"研究資料可以提供給委員做參考"},{"start":9938.46,"end":9940.46,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":9955.77,"end":9957.77,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":9957.77,"end":9959.77,"text":"第一個我先請高教司司長謝謝"},{"start":9959.77,"end":9961.77,"text":"好請司長上被訓材"},{"start":9966.74,"end":9968.74,"text":"好司長吳安我快速跟你"},{"start":9968.74,"end":9970.74,"text":"說明一個我們辦公室"},{"start":9970.74,"end":9972.74,"text":"最近收到蠻多陳情案"},{"start":9972.74,"end":9974.74,"text":"但我想今天不會立刻有答案"},{"start":9974.74,"end":9976.74,"text":"我就是先把問題帶出來"},{"start":9976.74,"end":9978.74,"text":"就是關於教師升等的外省制度"},{"start":9978.74,"end":9980.74,"text":"我們在同一影片上展現兩個學校"},{"start":9980.74,"end":9982.74,"text":"我只是就這兩個學校來舉例"},{"start":9982.74,"end":9984.74,"text":"我相信司長你從文字上"},{"start":9984.74,"end":9986.74,"text":"看得出來學校A的規範"},{"start":9986.74,"end":9988.74,"text":"非常的多而且非常的複雜"},{"start":9988.74,"end":9990.74,"text":"非常的多元它規範了什麼呢"},{"start":9990.74,"end":9992.74,"text":"規範了所謂外省委員的"},{"start":9992.74,"end":9994.74,"text":"領選資格及其條件"},{"start":9994.74,"end":9996.74,"text":"還有迴避室友其實寫非常清楚"},{"start":9996.74,"end":9998.74,"text":"可是B校相關的"},{"start":9998.74,"end":10000.74,"text":"規範要求其實非常非常簡單"},{"start":10000.74,"end":10002.74,"text":"也就是說如果"},{"start":10002.74,"end":10004.74,"text":"我是大學的老師我要申請"},{"start":10004.74,"end":10006.74,"text":"這個升等的時候外省制度我在"},{"start":10006.74,"end":10008.74,"text":"A校跟B校會遇到不同的情況"},{"start":10008.74,"end":10010.74,"text":"可是我還是我我的"},{"start":10010.74,"end":10012.74,"text":"專業表現還是我的專業表現"},{"start":10012.74,"end":10014.74,"text":"當然我知道在大學自治"},{"start":10014.74,"end":10016.74,"text":"的前提底下雖然"},{"start":10016.74,"end":10018.74,"text":"教育部訂定有專科以上學校"},{"start":10018.74,"end":10020.74,"text":"教師資格審定辦法可是因為"},{"start":10020.74,"end":10022.74,"text":"這個辦法的授權給予大學"},{"start":10022.74,"end":10024.74,"text":"自治很大的空間所以我會說"},{"start":10024.74,"end":10026.74,"text":"這兩個落差很大"},{"start":10026.74,"end":10028.74,"text":"這是第一個關於升等"},{"start":10028.74,"end":10030.74,"text":"外省的時候外省委員的規範"},{"start":10030.74,"end":10032.74,"text":"那第二個我們來看一下我再舉第二個"},{"start":10032.74,"end":10034.74,"text":"例子如果他遇到"},{"start":10034.74,"end":10036.74,"text":"相關的救濟"},{"start":10036.74,"end":10038.74,"text":"事件發生的時候救濟資格"},{"start":10038.74,"end":10040.74,"text":"跟管道的規範也截然不同"},{"start":10040.74,"end":10042.74,"text":"在我的左手邊學校C"},{"start":10042.74,"end":10044.74,"text":"的部分當事人"},{"start":10044.74,"end":10046.74,"text":"簡報左邊學校C的當事人"},{"start":10046.74,"end":10048.74,"text":"他的系級院級委員是可以"},{"start":10048.74,"end":10050.74,"text":"針對外省意見提請認定"},{"start":10050.74,"end":10052.74,"text":"可是右邊學校D他則是規定"},{"start":10052.74,"end":10054.74,"text":"只有校級的委員"},{"start":10054.74,"end":10056.74,"text":"可以在校級會議上提起認定"},{"start":10056.74,"end":10058.74,"text":"好我相信這個規範思想"},{"start":10058.74,"end":10060.74,"text":"應該非常熟悉一樣在"},{"start":10060.74,"end":10062.74,"text":"相關教育部的法規授權底下"},{"start":10062.74,"end":10064.74,"text":"大學有自治的權利我沒有"},{"start":10064.74,"end":10066.74,"text":"要針對這些學校所以我想會後"},{"start":10066.74,"end":10068.74,"text":"我們不要針對個別學校來討論"},{"start":10068.74,"end":10070.74,"text":"我比較希望教育部有沒有機會開起"},{"start":10070.74,"end":10072.74,"text":"通盤的討論當然這個"},{"start":10072.74,"end":10074.74,"text":"討論必須要邀集大學"},{"start":10074.74,"end":10076.74,"text":"校長跟相關有相關"},{"start":10076.74,"end":10078.74,"text":"外省經驗的老師甚至是"},{"start":10078.74,"end":10080.74,"text":"所有必須要被審查的老師我認為"},{"start":10080.74,"end":10082.74,"text":"大家在這些制度上一定心裡面"},{"start":10082.74,"end":10084.74,"text":"都有一些"},{"start":10085.32,"end":10087.32,"text":"話想說所以我想我是不是"},{"start":10087.32,"end":10089.32,"text":"今天先提出來這邊拜託教育部"},{"start":10089.32,"end":10091.32,"text":"進行相關研議好嗎來司長"},{"start":10091.32,"end":10093.32,"text":"好謝謝委員對於那個整個"},{"start":10093.32,"end":10095.32,"text":"教評會的這個設置"},{"start":10095.32,"end":10097.32,"text":"的一個教師資格審定的"},{"start":10097.32,"end":10099.32,"text":"一個看法的一個提出"},{"start":10099.32,"end":10101.32,"text":"先跟委員快速的回應兩個"},{"start":10101.32,"end":10103.32,"text":"重點第一個由於每個"},{"start":10103.32,"end":10105.32,"text":"學校在教師資格審定"},{"start":10105.32,"end":10107.32,"text":"送外省的"},{"start":10107.32,"end":10109.32,"text":"那個分街是不一樣的"},{"start":10109.32,"end":10111.32,"text":"有的學校是在校教評"},{"start":10111.32,"end":10113.32,"text":"有的學校是在院教評"},{"start":10113.32,"end":10115.32,"text":"有的學校是在系教評"},{"start":10115.32,"end":10117.32,"text":"這個部分就成如剛才委員所說的"},{"start":10117.32,"end":10119.32,"text":"我們是尊重學校在整個外省制度"},{"start":10119.32,"end":10121.32,"text":"上面的一個設計"},{"start":10121.32,"end":10123.32,"text":"第二個部分就是有關於外省"},{"start":10123.32,"end":10125.32,"text":"委員的這個遴選或者"},{"start":10125.32,"end":10127.32,"text":"是相關的條件教育"},{"start":10127.32,"end":10129.32,"text":"部規範的是一個基本的"},{"start":10129.32,"end":10131.32,"text":"規範第一個就是不能"},{"start":10131.32,"end":10133.32,"text":"低階高審也就是如果在"},{"start":10133.32,"end":10135.32,"text":"審查教授資格的時候"},{"start":10135.32,"end":10137.32,"text":"原則上是以教授資格"},{"start":10137.32,"end":10139.32,"text":"或者是中研院的研究員"},{"start":10139.32,"end":10141.32,"text":"或院士作為審查"},{"start":10141.32,"end":10143.32,"text":"委員為主要的一個"},{"start":10143.32,"end":10145.32,"text":"審查人的標準"},{"start":10145.32,"end":10147.32,"text":"那至於說學校要在制定"},{"start":10147.32,"end":10149.32,"text":"更細緻的比如說"},{"start":10149.32,"end":10151.32,"text":"依照行政程序法"},{"start":10151.32,"end":10153.32,"text":"訂定相關的迴避要件的話"},{"start":10153.32,"end":10155.32,"text":"這個也是剛才委員所說的"},{"start":10155.32,"end":10157.32,"text":"這個是尊重學校的一個"},{"start":10157.32,"end":10159.32,"text":"設計制度的一個設計"},{"start":10160.37,"end":10162.37,"text":"那至於就計的結果"},{"start":10162.37,"end":10164.37,"text":"我們根據目前的現行就計"},{"start":10164.37,"end":10166.37,"text":"有幾個管道第一個如果真的"},{"start":10166.37,"end":10168.37,"text":"對整個教評會對於"},{"start":10168.37,"end":10170.37,"text":"外省委員的意見"},{"start":10170.37,"end":10172.37,"text":"認為真的有專業的"},{"start":10172.37,"end":10174.37,"text":"一個判斷認為"},{"start":10174.37,"end":10176.37,"text":"他是有不足或者是足以撼動"},{"start":10176.37,"end":10178.37,"text":"他專業性的地方其實"},{"start":10178.37,"end":10180.37,"text":"是可以重啟這個"},{"start":10180.37,"end":10182.37,"text":"所謂的審查"},{"start":10182.37,"end":10184.37,"text":"外省審查的那第二個"},{"start":10184.37,"end":10186.37,"text":"如果說當事人對於"},{"start":10186.37,"end":10188.37,"text":"這個外省意見有所謂的"},{"start":10188.37,"end":10190.37,"text":"質疑的時候"},{"start":10190.37,"end":10192.37,"text":"或者是審查意見有一個"},{"start":10192.37,"end":10194.37,"text":"不足的地方他其實可以"},{"start":10194.37,"end":10196.37,"text":"提出相關的就計"},{"start":10196.37,"end":10198.37,"text":"那就計的管道有所謂的"},{"start":10198.37,"end":10200.37,"text":"書院或者是行政就計"},{"start":10200.37,"end":10202.37,"text":"那另外也可以透過我們中央"},{"start":10202.37,"end":10204.37,"text":"各級學校申評會"},{"start":10204.37,"end":10206.37,"text":"的一個制度來"},{"start":10206.37,"end":10208.37,"text":"作為他就計的一個管道"},{"start":10208.37,"end":10210.37,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":10210.37,"end":10212.37,"text":"我當然都可以理解相關大的"},{"start":10212.37,"end":10214.37,"text":"精神包含不可以第一階拉"},{"start":10214.37,"end":10216.37,"text":"高審這些事情然後尊重大學"},{"start":10216.37,"end":10218.37,"text":"但是我要說的是我剛剛說"},{"start":10218.37,"end":10220.37,"text":"通盤的設計這件事情我認為"},{"start":10220.37,"end":10222.37,"text":"應該要與時俱進因為"},{"start":10222.37,"end":10224.37,"text":"如同我們只要每次談到高等教育"},{"start":10224.37,"end":10226.37,"text":"我們都會發現台灣高等教育要"},{"start":10226.37,"end":10228.37,"text":"流財越來越困難然後"},{"start":10228.37,"end":10230.37,"text":"甚至大家會引用其他國家的薪水"},{"start":10230.37,"end":10232.37,"text":"其他國家的待遇"},{"start":10232.37,"end":10234.37,"text":"來看待台灣的高等教育流財"},{"start":10234.37,"end":10236.37,"text":"的問題所以我認為其實不是"},{"start":10236.37,"end":10238.37,"text":"只有薪水一定是在整體的教學"},{"start":10238.37,"end":10240.37,"text":"環境或是整個制度上"},{"start":10240.37,"end":10242.37,"text":"讓很多人覺得好像留在台灣的"},{"start":10242.37,"end":10244.37,"text":"高等教育沒有比較好所以我"},{"start":10244.37,"end":10246.37,"text":"當然是要提出我的建議"},{"start":10246.37,"end":10248.37,"text":"雖然你剛剛講的辦法現在都已經在"},{"start":10248.37,"end":10250.37,"text":"實行但是一定有一些在制度的設計"},{"start":10250.37,"end":10252.37,"text":"跟第一線的需求產生了一些"},{"start":10252.37,"end":10254.37,"text":"落差我這邊還是要拜託教育部"},{"start":10254.37,"end":10256.37,"text":"帶回去研議因為深等"},{"start":10256.37,"end":10258.37,"text":"制度對每一個學術工作者來說"},{"start":10258.37,"end":10260.37,"text":"都非常的重要可是如果"},{"start":10260.37,"end":10262.37,"text":"因為尊重大學自治"},{"start":10262.37,"end":10264.37,"text":"產生這麼多學校跟學校間的差異"},{"start":10264.37,"end":10266.37,"text":"我認為這些外省"},{"start":10266.37,"end":10268.37,"text":"資格委員的認定啦外省委員"},{"start":10268.37,"end":10270.37,"text":"一件一億的處理機制"},{"start":10270.37,"end":10272.37,"text":"會不會影響到我們自己"},{"start":10272.37,"end":10274.37,"text":"國內其他學校或者是世界各校"},{"start":10274.37,"end":10276.37,"text":"對於我國學術的信賴"},{"start":10276.37,"end":10278.37,"text":"我認為這會是一個一億"},{"start":10278.37,"end":10280.37,"text":"我也希望協助台灣的高等"},{"start":10280.37,"end":10282.37,"text":"教師在這件事情上有"},{"start":10282.37,"end":10284.37,"text":"更好被看待的環境跟更好的機制"},{"start":10284.37,"end":10286.37,"text":"要拜託教育部帶回去研議"},{"start":10286.37,"end":10288.37,"text":"沒問題謝謝委員"},{"start":10288.37,"end":10290.37,"text":"那次長請回 接下來有請"},{"start":10290.37,"end":10292.37,"text":"張亮萬間次長謝謝"},{"start":10294.91,"end":10296.91,"text":"好委員好"},{"start":10324.91,"end":10326.91,"text":"好 下一張"},{"start":10347.56,"end":10349.56,"text":"天鄉地區的孩子們在"},{"start":10349.56,"end":10351.56,"text":"小一入學的時候所受"},{"start":10351.56,"end":10353.56,"text":"所收到去參加"},{"start":10353.56,"end":10355.56,"text":"的一個學歷檢測這個時代會"},{"start":10355.56,"end":10357.56,"text":"做的事情我們發現從2018"},{"start":10357.56,"end":10359.56,"text":"年到2023年以來"},{"start":10359.56,"end":10361.56,"text":"國英數設置"},{"start":10361.56,"end":10363.56,"text":"天鄉小孩代加強"},{"start":10363.56,"end":10365.56,"text":"的比例超過全國"},{"start":10365.56,"end":10367.56,"text":"倍數的比例其實逐年上升"},{"start":10367.56,"end":10369.56,"text":"以國文來說從"},{"start":10369.56,"end":10371.56,"text":"2018年的1.97倍"},{"start":10371.56,"end":10373.56,"text":"到2023到了2.19"},{"start":10373.56,"end":10375.56,"text":"倍英文也是1.74"},{"start":10375.56,"end":10377.56,"text":"來到1.90數學"},{"start":10377.56,"end":10379.56,"text":"1.76來到1.87"},{"start":10379.56,"end":10381.56,"text":"社會1.98來到2.18"},{"start":10381.56,"end":10383.56,"text":"自然1.76來到1.92"},{"start":10383.56,"end":10385.56,"text":"也就是"},{"start":10385.56,"end":10387.56,"text":"天鄉孩子"},{"start":10387.56,"end":10389.56,"text":"在小一入學"},{"start":10389.56,"end":10391.56,"text":"的時候就存在"},{"start":10391.56,"end":10393.56,"text":"嚴重的學歷落差"},{"start":10393.56,"end":10395.56,"text":"相較於都會地區的孩子"},{"start":10395.56,"end":10397.56,"text":"而且這個學歷的落差"},{"start":10397.56,"end":10399.56,"text":"逐年上升"},{"start":10399.56,"end":10401.56,"text":"這個是來自於教育部的統計"},{"start":10401.56,"end":10403.56,"text":"數字還有"},{"start":10403.56,"end":10405.56,"text":"相關的研究都發現"},{"start":10405.56,"end":10407.56,"text":"有這個問題"},{"start":10407.56,"end":10409.56,"text":"還有包含我們立法院預算中心"},{"start":10409.56,"end":10411.56,"text":"在2021年的報告也做出了"},{"start":10411.56,"end":10413.56,"text":"類似的結論那這個預算中心"},{"start":10413.56,"end":10415.56,"text":"一定是有跟教育部調資料"},{"start":10415.56,"end":10417.56,"text":"簡單的一句話總結就是"},{"start":10417.56,"end":10419.56,"text":"偏遠地區的學前教育"},{"start":10419.56,"end":10421.56,"text":"仍待強化來看下一張"},{"start":10421.56,"end":10423.56,"text":"我們跟我們長時間跟"},{"start":10423.56,"end":10425.56,"text":"偏遠地區的校長老師還有"},{"start":10425.56,"end":10427.56,"text":"很多的研究團體保持互動跟"},{"start":10427.56,"end":10429.56,"text":"討論最近這幾年大家"},{"start":10429.56,"end":10431.56,"text":"更系統性的"},{"start":10431.56,"end":10433.56,"text":"結構性的來研究"},{"start":10433.56,"end":10435.56,"text":"而不是以個案來研究"},{"start":10435.56,"end":10437.56,"text":"到底偏鄉的孩子們他們在所謂"},{"start":10437.56,"end":10439.56,"text":"家庭環境社區環境"},{"start":10439.56,"end":10441.56,"text":"原生家庭他們在入學"},{"start":10441.56,"end":10443.56,"text":"前通常遭遇了哪些困難"},{"start":10443.56,"end":10445.56,"text":"這個是其中某一個孩子"},{"start":10445.56,"end":10447.56,"text":"跟很多孩子所表現出來的樣態"},{"start":10447.56,"end":10449.56,"text":"例如說在家庭的部分"},{"start":10449.56,"end":10451.56,"text":"他會有身體的虐待情緒的虐待"},{"start":10451.56,"end":10453.56,"text":"甚至還有性侵的個案"},{"start":10453.56,"end":10455.56,"text":"或者是家庭疏於照顧"},{"start":10455.56,"end":10457.56,"text":"在生活端在情緒關懷"},{"start":10457.56,"end":10459.56,"text":"更不要講當家庭"},{"start":10459.56,"end":10461.56,"text":"失去了功能有家人做勞"},{"start":10461.56,"end":10463.56,"text":"藥物濫用的問題家人"},{"start":10463.56,"end":10465.56,"text":"暴力傾向的問題家人有精神疾病"},{"start":10465.56,"end":10467.56,"text":"的困境或者是離婚等等"},{"start":10467.56,"end":10469.56,"text":"的這些問題他可能"},{"start":10469.56,"end":10471.56,"text":"發生在單一一個孩子身上"},{"start":10471.56,"end":10473.56,"text":"而當單一個孩子身上發生"},{"start":10473.56,"end":10475.56,"text":"這樣的情況的時候其實"},{"start":10475.83,"end":10477.83,"text":"衛福部有相關社安網"},{"start":10477.83,"end":10479.83,"text":"會及時介入這個沒有問題"},{"start":10479.83,"end":10481.83,"text":"我要再講我們社安2.0"},{"start":10481.83,"end":10483.83,"text":"跟社安3.0確實有"},{"start":10483.83,"end":10485.83,"text":"發揮社照的功能"},{"start":10485.83,"end":10487.83,"text":"社福的功能用不同"},{"start":10487.83,"end":10489.83,"text":"的問題面向切入去協助"},{"start":10489.83,"end":10491.83,"text":"這個小孩所以現在我們看到"},{"start":10491.83,"end":10493.83,"text":"另外一個比較大的問題就是"},{"start":10493.83,"end":10495.83,"text":"同一個小孩身上他可能因為遇到"},{"start":10495.83,"end":10497.83,"text":"這些異體所以他可能身上會有"},{"start":10497.83,"end":10499.83,"text":"了就是他的周邊環境"},{"start":10499.83,"end":10501.83,"text":"會有七到八個志工"},{"start":10501.83,"end":10503.83,"text":"同時"},{"start":10502.91,"end":10504.91,"text":"因為不同的問題在服務這個小孩"},{"start":10504.91,"end":10506.91,"text":"那我們來試想一下次長"},{"start":10506.91,"end":10508.91,"text":"當一個小孩他的"},{"start":10508.91,"end":10510.91,"text":"社區環境跟家庭環境是現在投影"},{"start":10510.91,"end":10512.91,"text":"片上這個狀況你大概可以"},{"start":10512.91,"end":10514.91,"text":"想像這個小孩他面臨"},{"start":10514.91,"end":10516.91,"text":"八九個社工的時候其實沒有人"},{"start":10516.91,"end":10518.91,"text":"幫他統整這些社工給予他的"},{"start":10518.91,"end":10520.91,"text":"協助於是最後統整的責任"},{"start":10520.91,"end":10522.91,"text":"到了誰身上呢我們來看下一張"},{"start":10522.91,"end":10524.91,"text":"就到了學校老師"},{"start":10524.91,"end":10526.91,"text":"身上這個是偏鄉老師"},{"start":10526.91,"end":10528.91,"text":"其實從我以前在花蓮自己擔任"},{"start":10528.91,"end":10530.91,"text":"老師我就發現我們在偏鄉"},{"start":10530.91,"end":10532.91,"text":"的時候我們幾乎要兼顧"},{"start":10532.91,"end":10534.91,"text":"部分的家庭功能當然"},{"start":10534.91,"end":10536.91,"text":"我們還有學校的教學業務"},{"start":10536.91,"end":10538.91,"text":"我們還有行政的事務而當我們"},{"start":10538.91,"end":10540.91,"text":"自己身為老師我們想要"},{"start":10540.91,"end":10542.91,"text":"一肩扛起協助這些學生"},{"start":10542.91,"end":10544.91,"text":"跟他的家庭甚至現在"},{"start":10544.91,"end":10546.91,"text":"我們還要統整社工的時候"},{"start":10546.91,"end":10548.91,"text":"其實我們每一個老師變成了"},{"start":10548.91,"end":10550.91,"text":"一座孤島我覺得這個是偏鄉"},{"start":10550.91,"end":10552.91,"text":"老師在面臨跟"},{"start":10552.91,"end":10554.91,"text":"多會地區老師更大的困境"},{"start":10554.91,"end":10556.91,"text":"那當然我知道因為我們今天下午要"},{"start":10556.91,"end":10558.91,"text":"修偏鄉條例也非常多委員都"},{"start":10558.91,"end":10560.91,"text":"很關心偏鄉教師的待遇的問題"},{"start":10560.91,"end":10562.91,"text":"偏鄉孩子失身筆的問題"},{"start":10562.91,"end":10564.91,"text":"或者是過去大家比較習慣"},{"start":10564.91,"end":10566.91,"text":"關心的是偏鄉硬體設備啦"},{"start":10566.91,"end":10568.91,"text":"閱讀資源啦數位資源"},{"start":10568.91,"end":10570.91,"text":"但是這些都是錢可以解決的問題"},{"start":10570.91,"end":10572.91,"text":"我認為比較大的困境是"},{"start":10572.91,"end":10574.91,"text":"沒有辦法解決就是包含我剛剛說"},{"start":10574.91,"end":10576.91,"text":"這些行政事務我知道教育部"},{"start":10576.91,"end":10578.91,"text":"非常非常努力在做行政減量"},{"start":10578.91,"end":10580.91,"text":"但是減少的量"},{"start":10580.91,"end":10582.91,"text":"被從哪些地方加回來"},{"start":10582.91,"end":10584.91,"text":"可能不是教育部可以阻擇"},{"start":10584.91,"end":10586.91,"text":"也不是教育部發動的但是卻還是"},{"start":10586.91,"end":10588.91,"text":"加了非常多行政"},{"start":10588.91,"end":10590.91,"text":"而最佳的這些事情卻可能大量"},{"start":10590.91,"end":10592.91,"text":"消耗老師的心力所以老師自己變成"},{"start":10592.91,"end":10594.91,"text":"一座孤島我們比較希望"},{"start":10594.91,"end":10596.91,"text":"透過結構跟製作討論"},{"start":10596.91,"end":10598.91,"text":"來積極協助這些老師其實"},{"start":10598.91,"end":10600.91,"text":"當老師狀況好了他回頭去"},{"start":10600.91,"end":10602.91,"text":"服務他的學生我相信孩子會過得更好"},{"start":10602.91,"end":10604.91,"text":"那也有機會回過頭來"},{"start":10604.91,"end":10606.91,"text":"我們辦公室過去一直在跟教育部講的"},{"start":10606.91,"end":10608.91,"text":"家庭教育功能也補上來"},{"start":10608.91,"end":10610.91,"text":"家庭教育補上來老師這裡補上來"},{"start":10610.91,"end":10612.91,"text":"孩子就有可能過得更好也許"},{"start":10612.91,"end":10614.91,"text":"我剛剛前面提到學歷落差的部分"},{"start":10614.91,"end":10616.91,"text":"就有可能逐年改進"},{"start":10616.91,"end":10618.91,"text":"所以時間有限我就快速的說"},{"start":10618.91,"end":10620.91,"text":"現在整體橫向的"},{"start":10620.91,"end":10622.91,"text":"失聯包含跟社政溝通機制"},{"start":10622.91,"end":10624.91,"text":"的失聯還有老師承擔了"},{"start":10624.91,"end":10626.91,"text":"很多不屬於學校的責任還有過去"},{"start":10626.91,"end":10628.91,"text":"這一次修法的時候"},{"start":10628.91,"end":10630.91,"text":"我其實也想要提出來非山非市"},{"start":10630.91,"end":10632.91,"text":"的學校過去是美藝"},{"start":10632.91,"end":10634.91,"text":"但是在偏鄉條例跟沒有偏鄉"},{"start":10634.91,"end":10636.91,"text":"條例的情況下非山非市"},{"start":10636.91,"end":10638.91,"text":"的學校反而是被併除在外"},{"start":10638.91,"end":10640.91,"text":"包含沒有久任獎金沒有"},{"start":10640.91,"end":10642.91,"text":"學士後的學分班這些"},{"start":10642.91,"end":10644.91,"text":"老師的福利完全被規範在外"},{"start":10644.91,"end":10646.91,"text":"這個是我希望稍微有機會"},{"start":10646.91,"end":10648.91,"text":"提到的而接下來我要說"},{"start":10648.91,"end":10650.91,"text":"最缺的不是錢而是人喔"},{"start":10650.91,"end":10652.91,"text":"講了這麼多我想我會具體"},{"start":10652.91,"end":10654.91,"text":"給出建議當然我不是只有給"},{"start":10654.91,"end":10656.91,"text":"出建議下一張我們辦公室後續"},{"start":10656.91,"end":10658.91,"text":"會持續要拜託跟教育部持續"},{"start":10658.91,"end":10660.91,"text":"的開會喔我們希望偏鄉教育"},{"start":10660.91,"end":10662.91,"text":"的很多問題我們可以透過跟社福"},{"start":10662.91,"end":10664.91,"text":"單位跟民間研究團體"},{"start":10664.91,"end":10666.91,"text":"甚至跟第一線的老師第一線的社工"},{"start":10666.91,"end":10668.91,"text":"去討論因為讓社工"},{"start":10668.91,"end":10670.91,"text":"工作量減輕讓老師工作量減輕"},{"start":10670.91,"end":10672.91,"text":"然後讓家長也可以得到支持孩子就有機會"},{"start":10672.91,"end":10674.91,"text":"變得更好當然我希望下午"},{"start":10674.91,"end":10676.91,"text":"我們修訂偏鄉條例的時候有機會"},{"start":10676.91,"end":10678.91,"text":"討論到還有家庭教育我要再一次"},{"start":10678.91,"end":10680.91,"text":"拜託教育部的家庭教育"},{"start":10680.91,"end":10682.91,"text":"我上一次已經說我們應該開發"},{"start":10682.91,"end":10684.91,"text":"多元教育教案的可能"},{"start":10684.91,"end":10686.91,"text":"所謂多元的家庭教育"},{"start":10686.91,"end":10688.91,"text":"教案意思就是說"},{"start":10688.91,"end":10690.91,"text":"在城市地區可能大家很習慣"},{"start":10690.91,"end":10692.91,"text":"聽講座大家很習慣去工作方"},{"start":10692.91,"end":10694.91,"text":"大家很習慣讀書會大家很習慣"},{"start":10694.91,"end":10696.91,"text":"電影欣賞後討論家庭教育"},{"start":10696.91,"end":10698.91,"text":"但是在國外例如說"},{"start":10698.91,"end":10700.91,"text":"澳洲跟日本已經開發出"},{"start":10700.91,"end":10702.91,"text":"適合不同鄉鎮的家庭教育方案"},{"start":10702.91,"end":10704.91,"text":"必須要去執行而不是"},{"start":10704.91,"end":10706.91,"text":"同一種概念去執行再來"},{"start":10706.91,"end":10708.91,"text":"我希望後續我們要跟衛福部"},{"start":10708.91,"end":10710.91,"text":"如何讓社福機構"},{"start":10710.91,"end":10712.91,"text":"有沒有機會提早介入"},{"start":10712.91,"end":10714.91,"text":"減輕老師的心理耗能"},{"start":10714.91,"end":10716.91,"text":"而以孩子為中心的服務機制"},{"start":10716.91,"end":10718.91,"text":"又會是什麼樣子我認為衛福部"},{"start":10718.91,"end":10720.91,"text":"未來在以孩子們為"},{"start":10720.91,"end":10722.91,"text":"中心去協助孩子們的時候其實"},{"start":10722.91,"end":10724.91,"text":"也很需要教育部的意見跟"},{"start":10724.91,"end":10726.91,"text":"教育部跨部會溝通"},{"start":10726.91,"end":10728.91,"text":"這不是一個好解的題目"},{"start":10728.91,"end":10730.91,"text":"但是用我剛剛說的學歷"},{"start":10730.91,"end":10732.91,"text":"能力落差這件事情越來越大"},{"start":10732.91,"end":10734.91,"text":"其實我們越來越擔心"},{"start":10734.91,"end":10736.91,"text":"未來會不會國家要付出更多的"},{"start":10736.91,"end":10738.91,"text":"社福資源去協助這些孩子們長大後的家庭"},{"start":10738.91,"end":10740.91,"text":"我認為我們及早介入"},{"start":10740.91,"end":10742.91,"text":"做更多事情可以更加積極"},{"start":10742.91,"end":10744.91,"text":"協助這些老師家長跟學生"},{"start":10744.91,"end":10746.91,"text":"好那時間有限"},{"start":10746.91,"end":10748.91,"text":"要不要市長請他回應一下"},{"start":10748.91,"end":10750.91,"text":"建議我們會來努力"},{"start":10750.91,"end":10752.91,"text":"因為有的涉及到跟衛福部的跨部合作"},{"start":10752.91,"end":10754.91,"text":"有的是我們邊疆條裡面"},{"start":10754.91,"end":10756.91,"text":"可以再增加資源"},{"start":10756.91,"end":10758.91,"text":"有的人力的部分我們也會來"},{"start":10758.91,"end":10760.91,"text":"想辦法協助"},{"start":10760.91,"end":10762.91,"text":"謝謝 我想提出問題我們一步一步努力"},{"start":10762.91,"end":10764.91,"text":"謝謝市長 謝謝主席"},{"start":10764.88,"end":10766.88,"text":"好非常感謝陳梅雨委員的質詢"},{"start":10766.88,"end":10768.88,"text":"請市長回座"},{"start":10768.88,"end":10770.88,"text":"接下來我們有請高金素梅委員進行詢答"},{"start":10775.78,"end":10777.78,"text":"謝謝張委員請原理會的"},{"start":10777.78,"end":10779.78,"text":"杜中副主委教育部的"},{"start":10779.78,"end":10781.78,"text":"張廖萬堅次長"},{"start":10782.92,"end":10784.92,"text":"好請副主委請次長上被訓台"},{"start":10786.21,"end":10788.21,"text":"今天是2026年的8月19號"},{"start":10789.97,"end":10791.97,"text":"我記得在6月25號的時候"},{"start":10791.97,"end":10793.97,"text":"我們的張委也是武力化張委"},{"start":10793.97,"end":10795.97,"text":"他也安排了原住民族學校法的公聽會"},{"start":10798.04,"end":10800.04,"text":"我們非常多的人"},{"start":10800.04,"end":10802.04,"text":"來到了立法院"},{"start":10802.04,"end":10804.04,"text":"滿懷熱誠的表述了各自的看法"},{"start":10804.04,"end":10806.04,"text":"還有建議"},{"start":10806.04,"end":10808.04,"text":"並且我們也共同期待"},{"start":10808.04,"end":10810.04,"text":"原住民族的教育能夠"},{"start":10810.04,"end":10812.04,"text":"更上一層樓"},{"start":10812.04,"end":10814.04,"text":"也期待能夠推進原住民族學校法"},{"start":10814.04,"end":10816.04,"text":"的實現自治"},{"start":10816.04,"end":10818.04,"text":"那今天我們的張委排了原住民學校法"},{"start":10818.04,"end":10820.04,"text":"但是唯有幾個問題"},{"start":10820.04,"end":10822.04,"text":"想要就教一下"},{"start":10822.04,"end":10824.04,"text":"在6月25號公聽會"},{"start":10824.04,"end":10826.04,"text":"所有人的發言記錄"},{"start":10826.04,"end":10828.04,"text":"還有他的書面報告"},{"start":10828.04,"end":10830.04,"text":"以及張委他做的結論"},{"start":10830.04,"end":10832.04,"text":"其實呢我們都"},{"start":10832.04,"end":10834.04,"text":"清清楚楚的已經打成了"},{"start":10834.04,"end":10836.04,"text":"逐字稿登載在立法院"},{"start":10836.04,"end":10838.04,"text":"的公報上面"},{"start":10838.04,"end":10840.04,"text":"當時我們的張委有提到"},{"start":10840.04,"end":10842.04,"text":"今天與會的17位專家"},{"start":10842.04,"end":10844.04,"text":"學者假裝非常的好"},{"start":10844.04,"end":10846.04,"text":"所以我們會盡速把它整理好"},{"start":10846.04,"end":10848.04,"text":"也希望重新再有一個好的"},{"start":10848.04,"end":10850.04,"text":"版本 我不知道這個好的"},{"start":10850.04,"end":10852.04,"text":"版本是什麼樣的好的版本"},{"start":10852.04,"end":10854.04,"text":"然後針對原民會和教育部"},{"start":10854.04,"end":10856.04,"text":"一個是法令的主管機關"},{"start":10856.04,"end":10858.04,"text":"另一個是主管機關"},{"start":10858.04,"end":10860.04,"text":"我真是希望今天的公聽會"},{"start":10860.04,"end":10862.04,"text":"是沒有白開的 我們也承認"},{"start":10862.04,"end":10864.04,"text":"也許立法委員們的版本"},{"start":10864.04,"end":10866.04,"text":"真的很不好 但是我們"},{"start":10866.04,"end":10868.04,"text":"就是希望能夠討論出一個"},{"start":10868.04,"end":10870.04,"text":"可以帶動我們往前進的版本"},{"start":10871.19,"end":10873.19,"text":"6月25號到現在8月19號"},{"start":10873.19,"end":10875.19,"text":"已經過了一個多月"},{"start":10875.19,"end":10877.19,"text":"張委所做的結論"},{"start":10877.19,"end":10879.19,"text":"所謂好的版本我不知道"},{"start":10879.19,"end":10881.19,"text":"那今天我們也沒有看到"},{"start":10881.19,"end":10883.19,"text":"有所謂好的版本呢"},{"start":10883.19,"end":10885.19,"text":"而張委口中好的版本到底是什麼"},{"start":10885.19,"end":10887.19,"text":"好的版本呢"},{"start":10887.19,"end":10889.19,"text":"是原民會的版本"},{"start":10889.19,"end":10891.19,"text":"教育部的版本還是我們的"},{"start":10891.19,"end":10893.19,"text":"行政院會有很重視"},{"start":10893.19,"end":10895.19,"text":"原住民的學校法"},{"start":10895.19,"end":10897.19,"text":"所以它會有版本 可是我們今天"},{"start":10897.19,"end":10899.19,"text":"也都沒看到啊"},{"start":10899.19,"end":10901.19,"text":"那公聽會結束之後呢"},{"start":10901.19,"end":10903.19,"text":"原民會教育部你們有沒有"},{"start":10903.19,"end":10905.19,"text":"開會凝出一個新的版本"},{"start":10906.31,"end":10908.31,"text":"那我還是再講一次"},{"start":10908.31,"end":10910.31,"text":"所謂新的版本到底是院版"},{"start":10910.31,"end":10912.31,"text":"那這個院版是不是"},{"start":10912.31,"end":10914.31,"text":"張委口中說的好的版本呢"},{"start":10914.31,"end":10916.31,"text":"所以可能"},{"start":10916.31,"end":10918.31,"text":"張委待會要說明一下"},{"start":10918.31,"end":10920.31,"text":"再來就是"},{"start":10920.31,"end":10922.31,"text":"張委他後面的總結"},{"start":10922.31,"end":10924.31,"text":"他也做了幾個結論"},{"start":10924.31,"end":10926.31,"text":"第一個就是他希望教育部和原民會"},{"start":10926.31,"end":10928.31,"text":"能夠儘速在一個月"},{"start":10928.31,"end":10930.31,"text":"之內就所有的意見"},{"start":10930.31,"end":10932.31,"text":"提出一個方向"},{"start":10932.31,"end":10934.31,"text":"對於四位立法委員的修法方向"},{"start":10934.31,"end":10936.31,"text":"要提供給我們"},{"start":10936.99,"end":10938.99,"text":"張委請求的一個月的出來報告"},{"start":10938.99,"end":10940.99,"text":"全報告在哪裡"},{"start":10940.99,"end":10942.99,"text":"教育部阻責還是原民會"},{"start":10942.99,"end":10944.99,"text":"阻責 那我提醒"},{"start":10944.99,"end":10946.99,"text":"一下次長"},{"start":10946.79,"end":10948.79,"text":"次長你今天給我的這份"},{"start":10948.79,"end":10950.79,"text":"說明呢"},{"start":10950.79,"end":10952.79,"text":"其實是在昨天晚上"},{"start":10952.79,"end":10954.79,"text":"我的辦公室要求你們"},{"start":10954.79,"end":10956.79,"text":"提出這個說明的時候"},{"start":10956.79,"end":10958.79,"text":"你們才給我的"},{"start":10958.79,"end":10960.79,"text":"而原民會呢我們還是沒有看到"},{"start":10960.79,"end":10962.79,"text":"你提出了什麼張委在"},{"start":10962.79,"end":10964.79,"text":"6月25號的時候提出的"},{"start":10964.79,"end":10966.79,"text":"意見"},{"start":10966.79,"end":10968.79,"text":"再來第二個今天公聽會所有的"},{"start":10968.79,"end":10970.79,"text":"發言雖然會呈現在"},{"start":10970.79,"end":10972.79,"text":"公報的紀錄上面"},{"start":10972.79,"end":10974.79,"text":"但是我們也會中整"},{"start":10974.79,"end":10976.79,"text":"一個版本發給今天與會的每一位"},{"start":10978.43,"end":10980.43,"text":"可是我們現在收到的自由立法院"},{"start":10980.43,"end":10982.43,"text":"教育文化委員會的公報"},{"start":10982.43,"end":10984.43,"text":"紀錄啊"},{"start":10984.43,"end":10986.43,"text":"中整的一個版本發給與會的每一位"},{"start":10986.43,"end":10988.43,"text":"人員這個中和版本"},{"start":10988.43,"end":10990.43,"text":"到底是由哪一個單位"},{"start":10990.43,"end":10992.43,"text":"負責什麼時候可以"},{"start":10992.43,"end":10994.43,"text":"提供給我們呢"},{"start":10994.43,"end":10996.43,"text":"還是沒有看到"},{"start":10996.43,"end":10998.43,"text":"然後第三個張委的結論是說希望"},{"start":10998.43,"end":11000.43,"text":"原民會跟教育部召集一次"},{"start":11000.43,"end":11002.43,"text":"原住民重點學校"},{"start":11002.43,"end":11004.43,"text":"原住民實驗學校以及"},{"start":11004.43,"end":11006.43,"text":"專家學者我們希望再開"},{"start":11006.43,"end":11008.43,"text":"一次大會"},{"start":11008.43,"end":11010.43,"text":"6月25號以後一直到"},{"start":11010.43,"end":11012.43,"text":"今天張委排了"},{"start":11012.43,"end":11014.43,"text":"學校法的審議"},{"start":11014.43,"end":11016.43,"text":"請問這中間你們有開會嗎"},{"start":11017.85,"end":11019.85,"text":"哪一位要回答"},{"start":11022.36,"end":11024.36,"text":"針對委員剛剛提的"},{"start":11024.36,"end":11026.36,"text":"所謂公聽會"},{"start":11026.36,"end":11028.36,"text":"我也有來參加"},{"start":11028.36,"end":11030.36,"text":"相關要提出來的一些報告"},{"start":11030.36,"end":11032.36,"text":"事實上有提給這個"},{"start":11032.36,"end":11034.36,"text":"教育文化委員會"},{"start":11034.36,"end":11036.36,"text":"就是你今天的這個報告嗎"},{"start":11036.36,"end":11038.36,"text":"不是不是這個我們另外有提一個"},{"start":11038.36,"end":11040.36,"text":"正式的公文給"},{"start":11040.36,"end":11042.36,"text":"教育文化委員會"},{"start":11042.36,"end":11044.36,"text":"我並沒有拿到啊"},{"start":11044.36,"end":11046.36,"text":"我們整理過的說明的報告"},{"start":11046.36,"end":11048.36,"text":"那天公聽會我也有去啊"},{"start":11048.36,"end":11050.36,"text":"為什麼我們手上沒有呢"},{"start":11050.36,"end":11052.36,"text":"好請問一下我可以"},{"start":11052.36,"end":11054.36,"text":"請你們簡單請你們簡單"},{"start":11054.36,"end":11056.36,"text":"的說張委那天"},{"start":11056.36,"end":11058.36,"text":"做的總結論你們的報告裡面"},{"start":11058.36,"end":11060.36,"text":"你們的結論是什麼"},{"start":11060.36,"end":11062.36,"text":"到底有沒有新的版本"},{"start":11062.36,"end":11064.36,"text":"還是現在還是"},{"start":11064.36,"end":11066.36,"text":"按照張委所說的結論"},{"start":11066.36,"end":11068.36,"text":"說幾個委員的版本"},{"start":11068.36,"end":11070.36,"text":"不是很好所以我們還是"},{"start":11070.36,"end":11072.36,"text":"要用這幾個不是很好的"},{"start":11072.36,"end":11074.36,"text":"版本再來審我們現在的"},{"start":11074.36,"end":11076.36,"text":"學校法"},{"start":11076.04,"end":11078.04,"text":"委員我們是不是請張委長來回應"},{"start":11079.46,"end":11081.46,"text":"面板也好還是什麼誰的"},{"start":11081.46,"end":11083.46,"text":"誰的版本"},{"start":11084.31,"end":11086.31,"text":"好官務委員報告在原民會"},{"start":11086.31,"end":11088.31,"text":"目前在推動整個原住民學校"},{"start":11088.31,"end":11090.31,"text":"的計畫上"},{"start":11090.31,"end":11092.31,"text":"我們希望透過我們"},{"start":11092.31,"end":11094.31,"text":"現行的原住民組實驗"},{"start":11095.38,"end":11097.38,"text":"委託是那個委託學"},{"start":11097.38,"end":11099.38,"text":"私人辦學這樣的一個實驗教育"},{"start":11099.38,"end":11101.38,"text":"條例來推動我想就可以來"},{"start":11101.38,"end":11103.38,"text":"讓我們去所以我可不可以簡單講"},{"start":11103.38,"end":11105.38,"text":"不管是原民會也好"},{"start":11105.38,"end":11107.38,"text":"教育部也好或者是最後"},{"start":11107.38,"end":11109.38,"text":"行政院也好你們都不會提版本"},{"start":11109.38,"end":11111.38,"text":"我們目前的想法"},{"start":11111.38,"end":11113.38,"text":"是先透過實驗教育條例"},{"start":11113.38,"end":11115.38,"text":"來推動原住民組學校"},{"start":11115.38,"end":11117.38,"text":"那讓這個學校"},{"start":11117.38,"end":11119.38,"text":"張委同意嗎"},{"start":11119.2,"end":11121.2,"text":"沒有版本"},{"start":11121.28,"end":11123.28,"text":"請問一下張委"},{"start":11123.28,"end":11125.28,"text":"謝謝高進說會委員"},{"start":11125.28,"end":11127.28,"text":"我們先暫停一下好嗎"},{"start":11127.28,"end":11129.28,"text":"暫停時間"},{"start":11129.33,"end":11131.33,"text":"上次做出結論之後"},{"start":11131.33,"end":11133.33,"text":"我有主動的"},{"start":11133.33,"end":11137.33,"text":"去跟辦公室要這份報告"},{"start":11137.33,"end":11139.33,"text":"因此我們也"},{"start":11139.33,"end":11141.33,"text":"啟動重新再提供"},{"start":11141.33,"end":11143.33,"text":"一個版本所以我在7月31號"},{"start":11143.33,"end":11145.33,"text":"的時候已經擬出"},{"star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"},{"start":11543.46,"end":11545.46,"text":"並且要設立"},{"start":11545.46,"end":11547.46,"text":"原住民族教育署"},{"start":11547.46,"end":11549.46,"text":"研究最後"},{"start":11549.46,"end":11551.46,"text":"來提出中和"},{"start":11551.46,"end":11553.46,"text":"版本的建議希望未來"},{"start":11553.46,"end":11555.46,"text":"的立法跟政策制定"},{"start":11555.46,"end":11557.46,"text":"提供參考"},{"start":11557.46,"end":11559.46,"text":"這是我的版本"},{"start":11559.46,"end":11561.46,"text":"其實這也是我們非常多"},{"start":11561.46,"end":11563.46,"text":"族人希望原民會"},{"start":11563.46,"end":11565.46,"text":"擔起這個責任"},{"start":11565.46,"end":11567.46,"text":"如果原民會你"},{"start":11567.46,"end":11569.46,"text":"目前擔不起責任"},{"start":11569.46,"end":11571.46,"text":"你就必須要跟總統"},{"start":11571.46,"end":11573.46,"text":"或行政院長討論"},{"start":11575.76,"end":11577.76,"text":"要給你們人"},{"start":11577.76,"end":11579.76,"text":"要給你們錢"},{"start":11579.76,"end":11581.76,"text":"我相信有人有錢"},{"start":11581.76,"end":11583.76,"text":"制度方面在場的每一位"},{"start":11583.76,"end":11585.76,"text":"都是專家學者"},{"start":11585.76,"end":11587.76,"text":"我們不可能會提出"},{"start":11587.76,"end":11589.76,"text":"不好的版本跟建議"},{"start":11589.76,"end":11591.76,"text":"所以我要再請問"},{"start":11591.76,"end":11593.76,"text":"原民會你們現在"},{"start":11593.76,"end":11595.76,"text":"最大的問題是不是沒有人"},{"start":11595.76,"end":11597.76,"text":"沒有錢"},{"start":11596.95,"end":11598.95,"text":"而不是你們沒有這個責任"},{"start":11598.95,"end":11600.95,"text":"來分擔起"},{"start":11600.95,"end":11602.95,"text":"來自主決定原住民教育的問題"},{"start":11602.95,"end":11604.95,"text":"當然就原民會來講"},{"start":11604.95,"end":11606.95,"text":"有關原住民事務我們當然是責無盤大"},{"start":11606.95,"end":11608.95,"text":"應該是要積極的去處理"},{"start":11608.95,"end":11610.95,"text":"但是委員也很清楚"},{"start":11610.95,"end":11612.95,"text":"我們確實人在資源上跟各項經費上"},{"start":11612.95,"end":11614.95,"text":"事實上有我們的困難"},{"start":11614.95,"end":11616.95,"text":"那就是說給原民會我們後面做出來"},{"start":11616.95,"end":11618.95,"text":"如果又不符合大家的期待"},{"start":11618.95,"end":11620.95,"text":"我想原民會"},{"start":11620.95,"end":11622.95,"text":"這麼長一段時間站在您後面的"},{"start":11622.95,"end":11624.95,"text":"我們的陳處長對於原住民族教育"},{"start":11624.95,"end":11626.95,"text":"他非常熟悉"},{"start":11626.95,"end":11628.95,"text":"原住民族現在的實驗教育"},{"start":11628.95,"end":11630.95,"text":"也是在你手上伸出來的"},{"start":11630.95,"end":11632.95,"text":"我相信我們大家都期待"},{"start":11632.95,"end":11634.95,"text":"既然民進黨政府"},{"start":11634.95,"end":11636.95,"text":"既然賴清德總統"},{"start":11636.95,"end":11638.95,"text":"已經有給原住民承諾"},{"start":11638.95,"end":11640.95,"text":"在選舉的時候"},{"start":11640.95,"end":11642.95,"text":"他希望雙軌來做原住民族的學校"},{"start":11644.95,"end":11646.95,"text":"那麼就請他來實現對原住民族"},{"start":11648.95,"end":11650.95,"text":"曾經的教育理念"},{"start":11650.95,"end":11652.95,"text":"跟他的承諾"},{"start":11652.95,"end":11654.95,"text":"希望原民會也大膽的跟總統說"},{"start":11654.95,"end":11656.95,"text":"如果你們真的關心"},{"start":11656.95,"end":11658.95,"text":"如果你們真的把原住民族的族人"},{"start":11658.95,"end":11660.95,"text":"當作你的好朋友"},{"start":11660.95,"end":11662.95,"text":"當作您的夥伴"},{"start":11662.95,"end":11664.95,"text":"當作台灣的主人"},{"start":11664.95,"end":11666.95,"text":"就請你把人跟資源"},{"start":11666.95,"end":11668.95,"text":"交給原民會"},{"start":11668.95,"end":11670.95,"text":"我相信以原民會"},{"start":11670.95,"end":11672.95,"text":"這麼長時間做原住民族"},{"start":11672.95,"end":11674.95,"text":"民族的所謂實驗教育"},{"start":11674.95,"end":11676.95,"text":"你們很有經驗了"},{"start":11676.95,"end":11678.95,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":11678.95,"end":11680.95,"text":"大膽的說出我們原住民族的實驗教育"},{"start":11680.95,"end":11682.95,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":11682.95,"end":11684.95,"text":"大膽的說出我們期待"},{"start":11684.95,"end":11686.95,"text":"行政院的原住民族學校法的版本"},{"start":11686.95,"end":11688.95,"text":"不要再推給"},{"start":11688.95,"end":11690.95,"text":"所有的原住民立法委員"},{"start":11690.95,"end":11692.95,"text":"當然我們可以"},{"start":11692.95,"end":11694.95,"text":"如果沒有行政院的版本"},{"start":11694.95,"end":11696.95,"text":"我們當然也可以審了"},{"start":11696.63,"end":11698.63,"text":"但是到時候不要說我們的版本不好"},{"start":11698.63,"end":11700.63,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11701.24,"end":11703.24,"text":"好"},{"start":11703.24,"end":11705.24,"text":"謝謝高金素美委員的質詢"},{"start":11705.24,"end":11707.24,"text":"請官員回座"},{"start":11707.24,"end":11709.24,"text":"我在這邊也補充"},{"start":11709.24,"end":11711.24,"text":"在之前的質詢"},{"start":11711.24,"end":11713.24,"text":"我也有最後做出一個訴求"},{"start":11714.12,"end":11716.12,"text":"一個月內"},{"start":11715.85,"end":11717.85,"text":"要請教育部原民會"},{"start":11717.85,"end":11719.85,"text":"有一個平台會議"},{"start":11719.85,"end":11721.85,"text":"把公聽會的修法意見"},{"start":11721.85,"end":11723.85,"text":"跟這一次"},{"start":11723.85,"end":11725.85,"text":"所有六個草案"},{"start":11725.85,"end":11727.85,"text":"版本做出一個"},{"start":11728.97,"end":11730.97,"text":"比較還有修法意見的對照表"},{"start":11730.97,"end":11732.97,"text":"一個月內"},{"start":11732.97,"end":11734.97,"text":"要送給"},{"start":11734.97,"end":11736.97,"text":"我們今天參與的所有委員"},{"start":11736.97,"end":11738.97,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11738.97,"end":11740.97,"text":"好"},{"start":11741.25,"end":11743.25,"text":"因為我們的時間"},{"start":11743.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11950.88,"text":"通過高級認證"},{"start":11950.88,"end":11952.88,"text":"但是又具備"},{"start":11952.88,"end":11954.88,"text":"我們講各級學校"},{"start":11954.88,"end":11956.88,"text":"教師能力的人數"},{"start":11956.88,"end":11958.88,"text":"那麼這個部分"},{"start":11958.88,"end":11960.88,"text":"本席請你們說明一下"},{"start":11960.88,"end":11962.88,"text":"從原民會的角度"},{"start":11962.88,"end":11964.88,"text":"那麼認為中高級"},{"start":11964.88,"end":11966.88,"text":"作為基本門檻"},{"start":11967.22,"end":11969.22,"text":"還是說高級作為"},{"start":11969.22,"end":11971.22,"text":"作為高級作為鼓勵的目標"},{"start":11971.22,"end":11973.22,"text":"還是說高級直接作為正式評論的門檻"},{"start":11973.22,"end":11975.22,"text":"哪一種可能比較兼顧"},{"start":11975.22,"end":11977.22,"text":"文化品質跟制度的可行性"},{"start":11979.85,"end":11981.85,"text":"如果就目前"},{"start":11981.85,"end":11983.85,"text":"大家的草案方向"},{"start":11983.85,"end":11985.85,"text":"其實這個部分應該是相對"},{"start":11985.85,"end":11987.85,"text":"更細囉"},{"start":11987.85,"end":11989.85,"text":"但是你們在這個"},{"start":11989.85,"end":11991.85,"text":"主語的各個層次還有各級的學校"},{"start":11991.85,"end":11993.85,"text":"你們目前有沒有一個"},{"start":11994.04,"end":11996.04,"text":"概念呢"},{"start":11996.04,"end":11998.04,"text":"在經過上次其實在工地會"},{"start":11998.04,"end":12000.04,"text":"有一些學者做一些討論嘛對不對"},{"start":12000.04,"end":12002.04,"text":"跟我也說明一下"},{"start":12001.5,"end":12003.5,"text":"那個主語當然在我們"},{"start":12003.5,"end":12005.5,"text":"原住民主語的學校裡面"},{"start":12005.5,"end":12007.5,"text":"是一個很重要的語言表達"},{"start":12007.5,"end":12009.5,"text":"也是表示原住民文化的"},{"start":12009.5,"end":12011.5,"text":"主體性啦"},{"start":12011.5,"end":12013.5,"text":"但是委員也知道說在高級的部分"},{"start":12013.5,"end":12015.5,"text":"事實上我們認證通過的並沒有那麼多"},{"start":12015.5,"end":12017.5,"text":"但是教學是不是一定要"},{"start":12017.5,"end":12019.5,"text":"用高級的"},{"start":12019.5,"end":12021.5,"text":"主語認證高級的這樣的一個資格"},{"start":12021.5,"end":12023.5,"text":"才有辦法當老師我想這個是"},{"start":12023.5,"end":12025.5,"text":"可以討論而且我們覺得在"},{"start":12025.5,"end":12027.5,"text":"在跟教學上面事實上"},{"start":12027.5,"end":12029.5,"text":"我們也可以透過這個主語教師"},{"start":12029.5,"end":12031.5,"text":"的協力的方式"},{"start":12031.5,"end":12033.5,"text":"有一些部落的祈禱的主語非常的好"},{"start":12033.5,"end":12035.5,"text":"也可以來協助"},{"start":12035.5,"end":12037.5,"text":"但是如果說要訂他的那個"},{"start":12037.5,"end":12039.5,"text":"每一個階級比如說是大學"},{"start":12039.5,"end":12041.5,"text":"高中國中國小可能"},{"start":12041.5,"end":12043.5,"text":"中高級也有可能可以當"},{"start":12043.5,"end":12045.5,"text":"的這個在主語上面是可以"},{"start":12045.5,"end":12047.5,"text":"支援的所以在整個的"},{"start":12047.5,"end":12049.5,"text":"的應做上我們資訊會裡面"},{"start":12049.5,"end":12051.5,"text":"也有掌握這些主語教師的"},{"start":12051.5,"end":12053.5,"text":"相對的這些人數跟"},{"start":12053.5,"end":12055.5,"text":"支援我們都有在做一個"},{"start":12055.5,"end":12057.5,"text":"同盤性的一個考量跟評估"},{"start":12057.5,"end":12059.5,"text":"所以針對剛才那個問題"},{"start":12059.5,"end":12061.5,"text":"您認為目前通過高級認證"},{"start":12061.5,"end":12063.5,"text":"具備相關能力的人數"},{"start":12063.5,"end":12065.5,"text":"大概你有一個概念嗎"},{"start":12066.25,"end":12068.25,"text":"可以簡單回應嗎"},{"start":12069.5,"end":12071.5,"text":"不多啦但是我們再提供給委員好不好"},{"start":12071.5,"end":12073.5,"text":"我們有去調查過"},{"start":12074.6,"end":12076.6,"text":"那這個部分因為是大家"},{"start":12076.6,"end":12078.6,"text":"共同都會討論的問題"},{"start":12078.6,"end":12080.6,"text":"可惜本席"},{"start":12080.6,"end":12082.6,"text":"本席在這邊實際上提醒你們"},{"start":12082.6,"end":12084.6,"text":"那麼各級學校"},{"start":12084.6,"end":12086.6,"text":"在這樣一個概念上"},{"start":12086.6,"end":12088.6,"text":"你們是不是在實務上"},{"start":12088.6,"end":12090.6,"text":"其實現在就他就是一個很大的"},{"start":12090.6,"end":12092.6,"text":"挑戰跟難題囉"},{"start":12092.6,"end":12094.6,"text":"那如果剛才我聽到"},{"start":12094.6,"end":12096.6,"text":"那個高經委員這邊"},{"start":12096.6,"end":12098.6,"text":"講我認為你們的進度上"},{"start":12098.6,"end":12100.6,"text":"是不是還沒有思考到"},{"start":12100.6,"end":12102.6,"text":"這個層面可是應該在"},{"start":12102.6,"end":12104.6,"text":"中聽會還有大家提出的版本"},{"start":12104.6,"end":12106.6,"text":"其實都已經有這個相關的資訊"},{"start":12106.6,"end":12108.6,"text":"你們可能應該要趕快追上"},{"start":12108.6,"end":12110.6,"text":"這樣一個進度"},{"start":12110.6,"end":12112.6,"text":"我們有在做調查在做了解"},{"start":12112.6,"end":12114.6,"text":"那你們也要了解各級學校"},{"start":12114.6,"end":12116.6,"text":"真正的核心學養"},{"start":12116.6,"end":12118.6,"text":"然後跟實際的狀況才不會"},{"start":12118.6,"end":12120.6,"text":"當大家以一個文化"},{"start":12120.6,"end":12122.6,"text":"概念還有一個原住民族的"},{"start":12122.6,"end":12124.6,"text":"教育整體性完整性"},{"start":12124.6,"end":12126.6,"text":"的制度面來"},{"start":12126.6,"end":12128.6,"text":"思考的時候呢"},{"start":12128.6,"end":12130.6,"text":"就在實務面你們可能"},{"start":12130.6,"end":12132.6,"text":"對教育體系不是那麼"},{"start":12132.6,"end":12134.6,"text":"深入的了解的情況下"},{"start":12134.6,"end":12136.6,"text":"到最後可能產生很大的落差"},{"start":12136.6,"end":12138.6,"text":"那本席今天其實是針對"},{"start":12138.6,"end":12140.6,"text":"族語的這個部分先跟你們提出來"},{"start":12140.6,"end":12142.6,"text":"那不僅就教也希望你們能夠"},{"start":12142.6,"end":12144.6,"text":"趕快的就各級學校"},{"start":12144.6,"end":12146.6,"text":"這個部分做一個思考"},{"start":12146.6,"end":12148.6,"text":"那接下來本席請教一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那您是比較熟悉"},{"start":12152.6,"end":12154.6,"text":"所謂師資培育跟教師"},{"start":12154.6,"end":12156.6,"text":"聘任現場"},{"start":12156.6,"end":12158.6,"text":"那本席這邊談到喔就是我們從很基礎"},{"start":12158.6,"end":12160.6,"text":"一直到高教"},{"start":12160.6,"end":12162.6,"text":"那應該有很多不同"},{"start":12162.6,"end":12164.6,"text":"層次而且非常每一個"},{"start":12164.6,"end":12166.6,"text":"平台應該都有"},{"start":12166.6,"end":12168.6,"text":"很大的差異"},{"start":12168.6,"end":12170.6,"text":"所以我們如果把"},{"start":12170.6,"end":12172.6,"text":"這個族語的門檻"},{"start":12172.6,"end":12174.6,"text":"定的很低可能各界"},{"start":12174.6,"end":12176.6,"text":"會認為不足以支撐原住民"},{"start":12176.6,"end":12178.6,"text":"族學校的特色跟目標"},{"start":12178.6,"end":12180.6,"text":"但是呢如果一開始"},{"start":12180.6,"end":12182.6,"text":"就全面要求的很高"},{"start":12182.6,"end":12184.6,"text":"或者所謂的高級"},{"start":12184.6,"end":12186.6,"text":"那麼這個很多的教學"},{"start":12186.6,"end":12188.6,"text":"的專業文化的素養"},{"start":12188.6,"end":12190.6,"text":"還有族語能力"},{"start":12190.6,"end":12192.6,"text":"已經達到相當"},{"start":12192.6,"end":12194.6,"text":"程度的優秀教師"},{"start":12194.6,"end":12196.6,"text":"你們是不是認為可以採取"},{"start":12196.6,"end":12198.6,"text":"分階段的一個設計"},{"start":12199.1,"end":12201.1,"text":"你們這方面的看法呢"},{"start":12201.1,"end":12203.1,"text":"我不知道你們有沒有深入研究這個部分"},{"start":12203.1,"end":12205.1,"text":"而且我相信你們在高教體系"},{"start":12205.1,"end":12207.1,"text":"也應該有一些了解嘛"},{"start":12207.1,"end":12209.1,"text":"所以如果說以中高級進入原住民族學校"},{"start":12209.1,"end":12211.1,"text":"的這個基礎"},{"start":12211.1,"end":12213.1,"text":"那麼教師進用後透過"},{"start":12213.1,"end":12215.1,"text":"不同的培訓向再次進修"},{"start":12215.1,"end":12217.1,"text":"或族語培訓或認證機制"},{"start":12217.1,"end":12219.1,"text":"在一定的連線裡面"},{"start":12219.1,"end":12221.1,"text":"提升到高級"},{"start":12221.1,"end":12223.1,"text":"這樣的可能性是如何"},{"start":12223.1,"end":12225.1,"text":"那當然還是牽扯到"},{"start":12225.1,"end":12227.1,"text":"各級學校"},{"start":12227.1,"end":12229.1,"text":"具體的一些這個"},{"start":12229.1,"end":12231.1,"text":"想法"},{"start":12231.1,"end":12233.1,"text":"我請負責人副市長跟您回答"},{"start":12233.1,"end":12235.1,"text":"好 跟委員報告"},{"start":12235.1,"end":12237.1,"text":"我們針對師資培育的這一塊"},{"start":12237.1,"end":12239.1,"text":"目前的規範是只有教"},{"start":12239.1,"end":12241.1,"text":"族語的老師他才有"},{"start":12241.1,"end":12243.1,"text":"原門檻的規範"},{"start":12243.1,"end":12245.1,"text":"至於未來原"},{"start":12245.1,"end":12247.1,"text":"就目前的規範是這樣的"},{"start":12247.1,"end":12249.1,"text":"如果是國小的師資的話"},{"start":12249.1,"end":12251.1,"text":"他需要到族語的中高級"},{"start":12251.1,"end":12253.1,"text":"國小相關的規範我們都知道"},{"start":12253.1,"end":12255.1,"text":"可是本席這邊"},{"start":12255.1,"end":12257.1,"text":"請你們試考的是"},{"start":12257.1,"end":12259.1,"text":"當原住民族學校"},{"start":12259.6,"end":12261.6,"text":"學校法裡面討論的"},{"start":12261.6,"end":12263.6,"text":"其實是各級學校"},{"start":12263.6,"end":12265.6,"text":"那我想你們應該要"},{"start":12265.6,"end":12267.6,"text":"不是只有基礎教育的"},{"start":12267.6,"end":12269.6,"text":"一個師培的問題"},{"start":12269.6,"end":12271.6,"text":"我講比較務實的"},{"start":12271.6,"end":12273.6,"text":"假設大學的相關教育"},{"start":12273.6,"end":12275.6,"text":"你要把專業知能"},{"start":12275.6,"end":12277.6,"text":"用族語"},{"start":12277.6,"end":12279.6,"text":"或者是用原住民的"},{"start":12279.6,"end":12281.6,"text":"文化方式來"},{"start":12281.6,"end":12283.6,"text":"呈現的話是不是前面"},{"start":12283.6,"end":12285.6,"text":"我相信你們對教材都"},{"start":12285.6,"end":12287.6,"text":"很了解嗎 那教材這個部分"},{"start":12287.6,"end":12289.6,"text":"你們目前的一個準備"},{"start":12289.6,"end":12291.6,"text":"跟討論是什麼"},{"start":12291.6,"end":12293.6,"text":"這其實很多很多很細的這個部分"},{"start":12293.6,"end":12295.6,"text":"那如果以本席剛才"},{"start":12295.6,"end":12297.6,"text":"聽到你們回應的一些進度"},{"start":12297.6,"end":12299.6,"text":"本席其實還蠻憂心的"},{"start":12299.6,"end":12301.6,"text":"不僅是你們版本"},{"start":12301.6,"end":12303.6,"text":"好像目前不是太完整"},{"start":12303.6,"end":12305.6,"text":"那原住民族學校的體系"},{"start":12305.6,"end":12307.6,"text":"好像各個階層的體系"},{"start":12307.6,"end":12309.6,"text":"似乎都還蠻缺乏的"},{"start":12309.6,"end":12311.6,"text":"那本席今天只是就"},{"start":12311.6,"end":12313.6,"text":"我們最關心的以族語"},{"start":12313.6,"end":12315.6,"text":"保存文化這樣一個概念"},{"start":12315.6,"end":12317.6,"text":"來談原住民族學校的這個議題"},{"start":12317.6,"end":12319.6,"text":"跟你們就教"},{"start":12319.6,"end":12321.6,"text":"有關於認證層級的問題"},{"start":12321.6,"end":12323.6,"text":"但是還有很多很多的這個問題"},{"start":12323.6,"end":12325.6,"text":"其實它是高於"},{"start":12325.6,"end":12327.6,"text":"或者是更要"},{"start":12327.6,"end":12329.6,"text":"及早在我們目前"},{"start":12329.6,"end":12331.6,"text":"已經碰到的這個教育體系"},{"start":12331.6,"end":12333.6,"text":"教育的這個經驗裡面"},{"start":12333.6,"end":12335.6,"text":"要更往前的來討論"},{"start":12335.6,"end":12337.6,"text":"要不然如果哪一天請你們"},{"start":12337.6,"end":12339.6,"text":"提供"},{"start":12339.33,"end":12341.33,"text":"原住民族自然科學"},{"start":12341.33,"end":12343.33,"text":"或自然知識的"},{"start":12343.33,"end":12345.33,"text":"相關教材的"},{"start":12345.33,"end":12347.33,"text":"高教文本"},{"start":12347.33,"end":12349.33,"text":"你們提供的出來嗎?如果是這樣"},{"start":12349.33,"end":12351.33,"text":"當然我們不知道未來的這個主管單位"},{"start":12351.33,"end":12353.33,"text":"大家還要討論"},{"start":12353.33,"end":12355.33,"text":"但是最重要就是說"},{"start":12355.33,"end":12357.33,"text":"那麼在師資培育還有現場人力"},{"start":12357.33,"end":12359.33,"text":"的這樣一個務實的情況"},{"start":12359.33,"end":12361.33,"text":"究竟教育部原民會"},{"start":12361.33,"end":12363.33,"text":"有沒有就各個層級去討論"},{"start":12363.33,"end":12365.33,"text":"那目前"},{"start":12365.33,"end":12367.33,"text":"已經有的族語的"},{"start":12367.33,"end":12369.33,"text":"師資跟未來"},{"start":12369.33,"end":12371.33,"text":"在各個層級裡面"},{"start":12371.33,"end":12373.33,"text":"教師能力的這個部分"},{"start":12373.33,"end":12375.33,"text":"你們到底應該要怎麼做"},{"start":12375.33,"end":12377.33,"text":"這是很大的一個問題"},{"start":12377.33,"end":12379.33,"text":"目前看起來進度是稍微慢了一點"},{"start":12380.98,"end":12382.98,"text":"那這個部分要請那個做個回應嗎?"},{"start":12382.98,"end":12384.98,"text":"還是要給"},{"start":12384.98,"end":12386.98,"text":"本席請問的這個補充問題"},{"start":12386.98,"end":12388.98,"text":"因為高榮委員關心"},{"start":12388.98,"end":12390.98,"text":"針對就是未來原住民"},{"start":12390.98,"end":12392.98,"text":"學校裡面的教材跟師資的"},{"start":12392.98,"end":12394.98,"text":"配套這一塊部分"},{"start":12394.98,"end":12396.98,"text":"會嫁接在跟"},{"start":12396.98,"end":12398.98,"text":"原民會的討論裡面"},{"start":12398.98,"end":12400.98,"text":"因為包括今天一個主題是"},{"start":12400.98,"end":12402.98,"text":"族語在各級"},{"start":12402.98,"end":12404.98,"text":"學校的一個認定"},{"start":12404.98,"end":12406.98,"text":"的層次"},{"start":12406.98,"end":12408.98,"text":"我們要怎麼樣來指令"},{"start":12408.98,"end":12410.98,"text":"那你不可以再給我溝通"},{"start":12410.98,"end":12412.98,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12412.98,"end":12414.98,"text":"可能更清楚完整"},{"start":12414.98,"end":12416.98,"text":"謝謝林茜琪委員的質詢"},{"start":12416.98,"end":12418.98,"text":"請官員回座"},{"start":12418.98,"end":12420.98,"text":"接下來我們有請羅志強委員進行詢答"},{"start":12426.04,"end":12428.04,"text":"有請次長"},{"start":12427.54,"end":12429.54,"text":"有請次長"},{"start":12432.13,"end":12434.13,"text":"請教次長"},{"start":12434.13,"end":12436.13,"text":"你知道什麼是大爆社事件嗎?"},{"start":12436.13,"end":12438.13,"text":"能不能跟大家說明一下"},{"start":12438.13,"end":12440.13,"text":"這個事件的內容"},{"start":12439.61,"end":12441.61,"text":"什麼大爆社"},{"start":12441.82,"end":12443.82,"text":"好 我告訴你"},{"start":12444.5,"end":12446.5,"text":"1900年日據時代"},{"start":12446.5,"end":12448.5,"text":"台灣總督府開放"},{"start":12448.5,"end":12450.5,"text":"蟑螂業者進入"},{"start":12450.5,"end":12452.5,"text":"山地開採資源"},{"start":12452.5,"end":12454.5,"text":"那擁有豐富蟑螂資源的"},{"start":12454.5,"end":12456.5,"text":"泰雅族大蝌蟑"},{"start":12456.5,"end":12458.5,"text":"也就是今天大溪這一帶"},{"start":12458.5,"end":12460.5,"text":"的地區首當其衝"},{"start":12460.5,"end":12462.5,"text":"並因為蟑螂工人"},{"start":12462.5,"end":12464.5,"text":"性侵部落婦女引爆衝突"},{"start":12464.5,"end":12466.5,"text":"總督府派軍"},{"start":12466.5,"end":12468.5,"text":"鎮壓"},{"start":12468.5,"end":12470.5,"text":"大爆社頭目瓦旦"},{"start":12470.5,"end":12472.5,"text":"現處率族人"},{"start":12472.5,"end":12474.5,"text":"與日軍血戰"},{"start":12474.5,"end":12476.5,"text":"聯合各部落抗日長達七年"},{"start":12476.5,"end":12478.5,"text":"最終不敵日軍的"},{"start":12478.5,"end":12480.5,"text":"優勢武力也被迫"},{"start":12480.5,"end":12482.5,"text":"遷離家園"},{"start":12482.5,"end":12484.5,"text":"不但失去族人以鮮血捍衛的"},{"start":12484.5,"end":12486.5,"text":"主居地並從原本"},{"start":12486.5,"end":12488.5,"text":"一千多位居民生效數十戶"},{"start":12488.5,"end":12490.5,"text":"那1920年"},{"start":12490.5,"end":12492.5,"text":"代日本殖民政府為了"},{"start":12492.5,"end":12494.5,"text":"紀念死傷的日本軍警"},{"start":12494.5,"end":12496.5,"text":"設立了一座"},{"start":12496.5,"end":12498.5,"text":"大爆中魂碑"},{"start":12498.5,"end":12500.5,"text":"那高金樹梅委員在質詢"},{"start":12500.5,"end":12502.5,"text":"前行政院長林全書家"},{"start":12502.5,"end":12504.5,"text":"蘇貞昌的時候有提到"},{"start":12504.5,"end":12506.5,"text":"如果掠奪資源以武力"},{"start":12506.5,"end":12508.5,"text":"血洗大爆社的日本軍警"},{"start":12508.5,"end":12510.5,"text":"是中魂"},{"start":12510.5,"end":12512.5,"text":"那浴血捍衛土地的原住民"},{"start":12512.5,"end":12514.5,"text":"是奸匪嗎"},{"start":12514.5,"end":12516.5,"text":"他請政府能夠設置"},{"start":12516.5,"end":12518.5,"text":"紀念碑來"},{"start":12518.5,"end":12520.5,"text":"來紀念"},{"start":12520.5,"end":12522.5,"text":"抗日原住民"},{"start":12522.5,"end":12524.5,"text":"也就是說大爆社紀念碑"},{"start":12524.5,"end":12526.5,"text":"你知道當時蘇貞昌"},{"start":12526.5,"end":12528.5,"text":"怎麼回應嗎"},{"start":12532.22,"end":12534.22,"text":"蘇貞昌前院長回應是"},{"start":12534.22,"end":12536.22,"text":"當年捍衛土地的主人"},{"start":12536.89,"end":12538.89,"text":"對抗外來入侵者"},{"start":12538.89,"end":12540.89,"text":"應於肯定"},{"start":12540.89,"end":12542.89,"text":"要大大的讚揚"},{"start":12542.89,"end":12544.89,"text":"承諾在任內完成紀念碑的設置"},{"start":12544.89,"end":12546.89,"text":"請問你認不認同"},{"start":12546.89,"end":12548.89,"text":"蘇院長蘇前院長"},{"start":12548.89,"end":12550.89,"text":"的這一樣的一個回答"},{"start":12550.89,"end":12552.89,"text":"那請問紀念碑設置了沒有"},{"start":12555.64,"end":12557.64,"text":"那應該不是我們"},{"start":12557.64,"end":12559.64,"text":"我告訴你啦"},{"start":12559.6,"end":12563.6,"text":"原住民的土地被日本軍警武力掠奪"},{"start":12563.6,"end":12569.6,"text":"然後原住民族在日據時代所受的不公不義的對待歷史"},{"start":12569.6,"end":12572.6,"text":"那這一個紀念碑到現在也沒下文了"},{"start":12572.6,"end":12574.6,"text":"當然你剛說"},{"start":12574.6,"end":12576.6,"text":"這不是你們夜館"},{"start":12576.6,"end":12578.6,"text":"可是下一個就是你們夜館"},{"start":12578.6,"end":12580.6,"text":"上週教育部提出了補課了沒"},{"start":12580.6,"end":12582.6,"text":"對不對"},{"start":12582.6,"end":12585.6,"text":"人權及轉型正義教育的專區"},{"start":12585.6,"end":12587.6,"text":"提出了第八堂課程"},{"start":12587.6,"end":12590.6,"text":"台灣的原住民族轉型正義"},{"start":12590.6,"end":12594.6,"text":"要代理民眾認識戰後威權統治下"},{"start":12594.6,"end":12596.6,"text":"白色恐怖的政治受難者"},{"start":12596.6,"end":12600.6,"text":"而且要讓歷史知識更貼近大眾生活"},{"start":12600.6,"end":12602.6,"text":"來降低理解門檻"},{"start":12602.6,"end":12605.6,"text":"所以推出這個補課的沒專區"},{"start":12605.6,"end":12608.6,"text":"要透過短影片以及延伸閱讀的方式"},{"start":12608.6,"end":12610.6,"text":"來協助台灣民眾"},{"start":12610.6,"end":12612.6,"text":"認識台灣的人權發展"},{"start":12612.6,"end":12614.6,"text":"那鄭部長也說"},{"start":12614.6,"end":12617.6,"text":"有些歷史不只存在課本裡"},{"start":12617.6,"end":12619.6,"text":"也存在土地的記憶中"},{"start":12619.6,"end":12621.6,"text":"我們願意理解歷史"},{"start":12621.6,"end":12623.6,"text":"也珍惜現在"},{"start":12623.6,"end":12626.6,"text":"更懂得守護民主與自由的價值"},{"start":12626.6,"end":12628.6,"text":"那我就想要請問"},{"start":12628.6,"end":12632.6,"text":"因為我們的政府承諾的大報社紀念碑"},{"start":12632.6,"end":12634.6,"text":"沒有下文"},{"start":12634.6,"end":12636.6,"text":"但是這個歷史的記憶不該被遺忘"},{"start":12636.6,"end":12637.6,"text":"對不對"},{"start":12637.6,"end":12639.6,"text":"那能不能拜託我們的次長"},{"start":12639.6,"end":12641.6,"text":"能告訴大家"},{"start":12641.6,"end":12643.6,"text":"是不是可以用你的補課了沒"},{"start":12643.6,"end":12645.6,"text":"這個專區"},{"start":12645.6,"end":12647.6,"text":"來做一支影片"},{"start":12647.6,"end":12649.6,"text":"做你所謂的短影片"},{"start":12649.6,"end":12651.6,"text":"來介紹大報社事件"},{"start":12651.6,"end":12654.6,"text":"這些日據時代對原住民壓迫的歷史"},{"start":12654.6,"end":12656.6,"text":"讓更多人來理解"},{"start":12656.6,"end":12658.6,"text":"存在於這片土地的記憶"},{"start":12658.6,"end":12660.6,"text":"你覺得可以這樣做嗎"},{"start":12660.6,"end":12661.6,"text":"可不可以"},{"start":12661.6,"end":12662.6,"text":"當然是可以"},{"start":12662.6,"end":12664.6,"text":"非常好謝謝您"},{"start":12664.6,"end":12666.6,"text":"那這件事我記下來了"},{"start":12666.6,"end":12668.6,"text":"那也希望我們後續辦公室"},{"start":12668.6,"end":12670.6,"text":"也會跟教育部來了解"},{"start":12670.6,"end":12672.6,"text":"我們後續這個影片的製作進度"},{"start":12672.6,"end":12675.6,"text":"那麼接下來我想請教一下下一個問題"},{"start":12676.36,"end":12678.36,"text":"上週"},{"start":12678.36,"end":12680.36,"text":"李遠部長說"},{"start":12680.36,"end":12682.36,"text":"欲滅其國先滅其史"},{"start":12682.36,"end":12685.36,"text":"欲滅其族先滅其文化"},{"start":12685.36,"end":12688.36,"text":"這一句話本席也非常有感觸"},{"start":12688.36,"end":12690.36,"text":"我覺得他說的一點都沒錯"},{"start":12690.36,"end":12692.36,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":12692.36,"end":12694.36,"text":"我就要問一句話"},{"start":12694.36,"end":12697.36,"text":"113年前一群充滿理想抱負的人"},{"start":12697.36,"end":12700.36,"text":"揭竿起義推翻帝制"},{"start":12700.36,"end":12702.36,"text":"他們的夢想是建立一個"},{"start":12702.36,"end":12705.36,"text":"民有民治民想的"},{"start":12705.36,"end":12707.36,"text":"民主共和國"},{"start":12707.36,"end":12709.36,"text":"他們的理想是打造一個"},{"start":12709.36,"end":12712.36,"text":"自由平等博愛的國度"},{"start":12712.36,"end":12715.36,"text":"因為這正是創建中華民國的"},{"start":12715.36,"end":12717.36,"text":"先驅拋頭顱灑熱血"},{"start":12717.36,"end":12719.36,"text":"所秉持的精神"},{"start":12719.36,"end":12721.36,"text":"這段話誰講的"},{"start":12721.25,"end":12723.25,"text":"知不知道"},{"start":12724.95,"end":12726.95,"text":"我告訴你啦"},{"start":12726.95,"end":12730.95,"text":"賴清德總統在前年的國慶文告當中說的"},{"start":12730.95,"end":12732.95,"text":"我百分之百認同這段話"},{"start":12732.95,"end":12734.95,"text":"來了"},{"start":12734.95,"end":12737.95,"text":"我在教文質詢尋答所問過鄭部長"},{"start":12737.95,"end":12740.95,"text":"也就是說這一段中華民國的建國史"},{"start":12740.95,"end":12743.95,"text":"先列拋頭顱灑熱血的事蹟"},{"start":12743.95,"end":12745.95,"text":"在現在的課綱"},{"start":12745.95,"end":12747.95,"text":"課本當中哪裡可以找到"},{"start":12747.95,"end":12750.95,"text":"在哪一冊的歷史教科書當中提到"},{"start":12751.02,"end":12753.02,"text":"市長知道部長怎麼回答我嗎"},{"start":12754.85,"end":12755.85,"text":"不是"},{"start":12755.85,"end":12757.85,"text":"非常好你答對了"},{"start":12757.9,"end":12759.9,"text":"部長的回答跟你剛回答一模一樣"},{"start":12759.9,"end":12760.9,"text":"他不知道"},{"start":12761.97,"end":12762.97,"text":"他不知道"},{"start":12763.52,"end":12764.52,"text":"那我就要來問"},{"start":12765.39,"end":12768.39,"text":"因為我剛說過連賴總統都說"},{"start":12768.39,"end":12771.39,"text":"革命先列拋頭顱灑熱血"},{"start":12771.39,"end":12773.39,"text":"揭竿起義推翻帝制"},{"start":12773.39,"end":12775.39,"text":"建立中華民國"},{"start":12775.39,"end":12777.39,"text":"結果"},{"start":12777.11,"end":12779.11,"text":"你們也答不出來在哪個課本當中有"},{"start":12780.72,"end":12782.72,"text":"那我想要問"},{"start":12782.72,"end":12784.72,"text":"課本當中如果沒有的話"},{"start":12784.72,"end":12786.72,"text":"那不就是李遠部長講的"},{"start":12786.72,"end":12788.72,"text":"欲滅其國先滅其死嗎"},{"start":12790.39,"end":12792.39,"text":"這是今天為什麼我要特別強調一件事"},{"start":12792.39,"end":12793.39,"text":"就是說"},{"start":12793.93,"end":12795.93,"text":"中華民國的創建的歷史"},{"start":12795.93,"end":12797.93,"text":"我覺得我們教育部"},{"start":12797.93,"end":12799.93,"text":"還是要上心"},{"start":12799.93,"end":12802.93,"text":"因為許多年輕人現在說真的"},{"start":12802.93,"end":12804.93,"text":"也不認識陸浩東"},{"start":12804.98,"end":12806.98,"text":"甚至可能還有年輕人"},{"start":12806.98,"end":12807.98,"text":"孫文"},{"start":12807.98,"end":12808.98,"text":"國父"},{"start":12808.98,"end":12809.98,"text":"孫中山"},{"start":12809.98,"end":12810.98,"text":"孫一仙"},{"start":12810.98,"end":12812.98,"text":"可能也未必分得清楚"},{"start":12812.98,"end":12814.98,"text":"可能還以為是不同的人"},{"start":12814.98,"end":12816.98,"text":"那這些都是因為"},{"start":12816.98,"end":12818.98,"text":"過去我們的一些歷史教育當中"},{"start":12818.98,"end":12820.98,"text":"我覺得讓民眾"},{"start":12820.98,"end":12822.98,"text":"讓下一代"},{"start":12822.98,"end":12824.98,"text":"對於我們的歷史的根本"},{"start":12824.98,"end":12826.98,"text":"開始有記憶上"},{"start":12826.98,"end":12828.98,"text":"沒有辦法在課本當中傳承"},{"start":12828.98,"end":12830.98,"text":"那本席這邊"},{"start":12830.98,"end":12832.98,"text":"也要說"},{"start":12833.01,"end":12835.01,"text":"歷史跟文化"},{"start":12835.01,"end":12837.01,"text":"我覺得是不能再繼續掏空"},{"start":12837.01,"end":12839.01,"text":"所以我正在推動一個紮根歷史教育的工作"},{"start":12839.01,"end":12841.01,"text":"我要透過說歷史故事"},{"start":12841.01,"end":12843.01,"text":"成語故事給爸爸媽媽聽的形式"},{"start":12843.01,"end":12845.01,"text":"來結合AI動畫跟影音科技"},{"start":12845.01,"end":12847.01,"text":"一路從盤古開天"},{"start":12847.01,"end":12849.01,"text":"講到中華民國的造建"},{"start":12849.01,"end":12851.01,"text":"以及國民政府的牽台"},{"start":12851.01,"end":12853.01,"text":"建設台灣的歷程"},{"start":12853.01,"end":12855.01,"text":"那在後天這個禮拜五的上午"},{"start":12855.01,"end":12857.01,"text":"我也在立法院"},{"start":12857.01,"end":12859.01,"text":"巡邪樓九樓大禮堂"},{"start":12859.01,"end":12861.01,"text":"來舉辦"},{"start":12861.01,"end":12863.01,"text":"說歷史陪爸爸媽的首映會"},{"start":12863.01,"end":12865.01,"text":"我這邊也就邀請次長跟部長"},{"start":12865.01,"end":12867.01,"text":"歡迎有空"},{"start":12867.01,"end":12869.01,"text":"一起來"},{"start":12869.01,"end":12871.01,"text":"來去弘揚我們賴總統"},{"start":12871.01,"end":12873.01,"text":"在國慶文告當中"},{"start":12873.01,"end":12875.01,"text":"所說的中華民國歷史"},{"start":12875.01,"end":12877.01,"text":"那請我們的次長有空"},{"start":12877.01,"end":12879.01,"text":"也撥動過來"},{"start":12879.01,"end":12881.01,"text":"參加好嗎"},{"start":12881.01,"end":12883.01,"text":"謝謝以上"},{"start":12883.54,"end":12885.54,"text":"好,謝謝羅志強委員的諮詢"},{"start":12885.54,"end":12887.54,"text":"請官員回座"},{"start":12887.91,"end":12889.91,"text":"接下來我們有請羅廷瑋趙偉"},{"start":12889.91,"end":12891.91,"text":"來進行詢討"},{"start":12896.9,"end":12898.9,"text":"好,謝謝主席"},{"start":12898.74,"end":12900.74,"text":"有請"},{"start":12900.39,"end":12902.39,"text":"長料萬千"},{"start":12901.9,"end":12903.9,"text":"正式"},{"start":12903.31,"end":12907.31,"text":"還有原民會常務副主委"},{"start":12907.31,"end":12909.31,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":12909.31,"end":12911.31,"text":"有請次長副主委"},{"start":12911.03,"end":12913.03,"text":"好"},{"start":12912.04,"end":12914.04,"text":"我也好"},{"start":12913.66,"end":12915.66,"text":"你好"},{"start":12914.84,"end":12916.84,"text":"我們依據原住民教育法第15條規定"},{"start":12916.84,"end":12918.84,"text":"各級政府"},{"start":12918.84,"end":12920.84,"text":"得是需要"},{"start":12921.15,"end":12923.15,"text":"設立各級原住民學校"},{"start":12923.15,"end":12925.15,"text":"或原住民的教育班"},{"start":12925.15,"end":12927.15,"text":"以利原住民學生就學"},{"start":12927.15,"end":12929.15,"text":"維護其文化"},{"start":12929.15,"end":12933.15,"text":"就前項原住民學校的設立事項"},{"start":12933.15,"end":12935.15,"text":"另以法律定之"},{"start":12935.15,"end":12937.15,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":12937.15,"end":12939.15,"text":"原住民學校的一個設立"},{"start":12939.15,"end":12941.15,"text":"本來就應該透過"},{"start":12941.15,"end":12943.15,"text":"專法來規範"},{"start":12943.15,"end":12947.15,"text":"今天教文排審原住民族學校法的這個草案"},{"start":12947.15,"end":12949.15,"text":"共有六個原民委員"},{"start":12949.15,"end":12951.15,"text":"提案版本"},{"start":12951.15,"end":12953.15,"text":"出了回應"},{"start":12952.29,"end":12958.29,"text":"原住民族教育法第15條規定的立法要求提案"},{"start":12958.58,"end":12960.58,"text":"更是同時反應了一件事情"},{"start":12962.36,"end":12964.36,"text":"我們"},{"start":12963.52,"end":12965.52,"text":"立法委員原住民"},{"start":12966.31,"end":12968.31,"text":"民主的社會教育現場"},{"start":12969.87,"end":12971.87,"text":"等不及了"},{"start":12971.74,"end":12973.74,"text":"只能先行提醒法案"},{"start":12975.03,"end":12977.03,"text":"推動立法"},{"start":12977.03,"end":12979.03,"text":"但本來就應該要"},{"start":12979.03,"end":12981.03,"text":"最早提出整體規劃"},{"start":12981.03,"end":12983.03,"text":"承擔行政責任的行政部門"},{"start":12984.48,"end":12986.48,"text":"反而長期的一個缺席"},{"start":12986.48,"end":12988.48,"text":"請問教育部"},{"start":12987.82,"end":12989.82,"text":"原民會"},{"start":12989.55,"end":12991.55,"text":"你們在做什麼"},{"start":12991.23,"end":12993.23,"text":"可以回答一下嗎"},{"start":12996.53,"end":12998.53,"text":"各位委員報告"},{"start":12998.53,"end":13000.53,"text":"事實上在原住民教育上面"},{"start":13000.53,"end":13002.53,"text":"我們跟那個教育部是協力的"},{"start":13002.53,"end":13004.53,"text":"那針對文化的部分"},{"start":13004.53,"end":13006.53,"text":"那我們事實上在整個"},{"start":13006.53,"end":13008.53,"text":"所以你覺得你有在做"},{"start":13008.53,"end":13010.53,"text":"這個教育法"},{"start":13010.53,"end":13012.53,"text":"這個學校法的部分"},{"start":13012.53,"end":13014.53,"text":"我們事實上也有做了很多的"},{"start":13014.53,"end":13016.53,"text":"研析相關委員的"},{"start":13016.53,"end":13018.53,"text":"版本"},{"start":13018.53,"end":13020.53,"text":"另外我們準備工作也在做"},{"start":13020.53,"end":13022.53,"text":"所以我們最近我們在我們說"},{"start":13022.53,"end":13024.53,"text":"沒有提到說我們有一個2.0的原住民學校"},{"start":13024.53,"end":13026.53,"text":"學校的設立"},{"start":13026.53,"end":13028.53,"text":"那這個就是實驗學校的2.0版"},{"start":13028.53,"end":13030.53,"text":"就是我們讓它提升到"},{"start":13030.53,"end":13032.53,"text":"它事實上是未來原住民學校的"},{"start":13032.53,"end":13034.53,"text":"示範的一個model"},{"start":13034.53,"end":13036.53,"text":"所以你有在做2.0"},{"start":13036.53,"end":13038.53,"text":"但是你沒有立法律定制"},{"start":13038.53,"end":13040.53,"text":"你沒有合法"},{"start":13040.53,"end":13042.53,"text":"我有做但不需要合法"},{"start":13042.53,"end":13044.53,"text":"是這樣嗎"},{"start":13044.53,"end":13046.53,"text":"做了以後如果在法律上"},{"start":13046.53,"end":13048.53,"text":"需要怎麼樣的支持"},{"start":13048.53,"end":13050.53,"text":"我們再來整理這個法律"},{"start":13050.53,"end":13052.53,"text":"吳立華早晚也在對著我笑"},{"start":13054.19,"end":13056.19,"text":"他覺得我點破了"},{"start":13056.19,"end":13058.19,"text":"不是因為委員"},{"start":13058.19,"end":13060.19,"text":"我跟你講今天不同政黨"},{"start":13060.19,"end":13062.19,"text":"但是他是為了原住民發聲"},{"start":13062.19,"end":13064.19,"text":"我就認同"},{"start":13064.19,"end":13066.19,"text":"設立這個法是沒有"},{"start":13066.19,"end":13068.19,"text":"我們是不會反對的我只是說在準備工作上"},{"start":13068.19,"end":13070.19,"text":"我們覺得說是不是有可能"},{"start":13070.19,"end":13072.19,"text":"你沒有反對你有沒有版本"},{"start":13073.68,"end":13075.68,"text":"告訴我"},{"start":13076.1,"end":13078.1,"text":"因為我們現在是分階段"},{"start":13078.1,"end":13080.1,"text":"所以我們後面的法的部分我們事實上還沒有提出來"},{"start":13080.1,"end":13082.1,"text":"那就拖了這麼久"},{"start":13082.1,"end":13084.1,"text":"這就是重點"},{"start":13084.1,"end":13086.1,"text":"那教育部今天在書面報告也寫"},{"start":13086.1,"end":13088.1,"text":"原住民族的學校是以"},{"start":13088.1,"end":13090.1,"text":"原住民族的知識體系為主"},{"start":13090.1,"end":13092.1,"text":"一民族教育哲學"},{"start":13092.1,"end":13094.1,"text":"與目標實施的教育學校"},{"start":13094.1,"end":13096.1,"text":"因此原住民族的學校法"},{"start":13096.1,"end":13098.1,"text":"的中央主管機關"},{"start":13098.1,"end":13100.1,"text":"以"},{"start":13101.97,"end":13103.97,"text":"統一由原民會擔任主管機關"},{"start":13103.97,"end":13105.97,"text":"請問一下"},{"start":13107.2,"end":13109.2,"text":"正式"},{"start":13109.16,"end":13111.16,"text":"所以你的這個說法"},{"start":13111.25,"end":13113.25,"text":"意思就是說原民會處理"},{"start":13113.25,"end":13115.25,"text":"我們一般教育當然是教育部"},{"start":13115.25,"end":13117.25,"text":"我們希望說原民教育體系"},{"start":13117.25,"end":13119.25,"text":"當然是希望有原民會"},{"start":13119.25,"end":13121.25,"text":"行政院也早在2016年就已經明確分工"},{"start":13121.25,"end":13123.25,"text":"教育部負責全面修正"},{"start":13123.25,"end":13125.25,"text":"原住民族的教育法"},{"start":13125.25,"end":13127.25,"text":"已經修完"},{"start":13127.25,"end":13129.25,"text":"但是原民會研議制定原住民族的學校法"},{"start":13129.25,"end":13131.25,"text":"所以我先問"},{"start":13132.75,"end":13134.75,"text":"教育部"},{"start":13134.18,"end":13136.18,"text":"能不能認同"},{"start":13136.18,"end":13138.18,"text":"定專法"},{"start":13136.98,"end":13138.98,"text":"我們相當支持"},{"start":13140.17,"end":13142.17,"text":"但是要定的話請原民會定"},{"start":13142.17,"end":13144.17,"text":"主政機關在105年"},{"start":13144.17,"end":13146.17,"text":"就分工"},{"start":13146.17,"end":13148.17,"text":"然後在原教法設立之後"},{"start":13148.17,"end":13150.17,"text":"第15條我們本來"},{"start":13150.17,"end":13152.17,"text":"認同說那個是雙軌的"},{"start":13152.17,"end":13154.17,"text":"教育體系一般教育部"},{"start":13154.17,"end":13156.17,"text":"來處理那如果像"},{"start":13156.17,"end":13158.17,"text":"國歌會他也會設試驗道中"},{"start":13158.17,"end":13160.17,"text":"所以你就是輔助他主導"},{"start":13160.17,"end":13162.17,"text":"好來謝謝那請問一下原民會"},{"start":13163.93,"end":13165.93,"text":"你有沒有認定自己是主管機關"},{"start":13167.44,"end":13169.44,"text":"沒關係你正常回答就好"},{"start":13169.44,"end":13171.44,"text":"你不要覺得我講讓你很為難"},{"start":13171.44,"end":13173.44,"text":"你就正常你覺得是就是不是就不是"},{"start":13173.44,"end":13175.44,"text":"當然如果做原住民事務來講"},{"start":13175.44,"end":13177.44,"text":"我們能夠讓原民會"},{"start":13177.44,"end":13179.44,"text":"來主導這個所有的法案當然是"},{"start":13179.44,"end":13181.44,"text":"責無旁貸啦但是我們必須考慮"},{"start":13181.44,"end":13183.44,"text":"現實的問題啦就是原民會現在的"},{"start":13183.44,"end":13185.44,"text":"量能有沒有辦法"},{"start":13185.44,"end":13187.44,"text":"未來的執行上有沒有可能"},{"start":13187.44,"end":13189.44,"text":"所以你覺得現在不需要定專法"},{"start":13189.44,"end":13191.44,"text":"對吧"},{"start":13190.21,"end":13192.21,"text":"目前我們是分階段來進行"},{"start":13192.21,"end":13194.21,"text":"沒關係嘛現在是不是"},{"start":13194.21,"end":13196.21,"text":"不需要定專法"},{"start":13196.21,"end":13198.21,"text":"先做好準備所有的問題都把它克服"},{"start":13198.21,"end":13200.21,"text":"或是知道問題未來怎麼解決"},{"start":13200.21,"end":13202.21,"text":"我們再來立這個法會比較好"},{"start":13202.21,"end":13204.21,"text":"沒有那我幫你定義嘛"},{"start":13204.21,"end":13206.21,"text":"就是說你認為可以先做"},{"start":13206.21,"end":13208.21,"text":"也就是你剛剛說的2.0"},{"start":13208.21,"end":13210.21,"text":"但是不需要立專法"},{"start":13212.13,"end":13214.13,"text":"不好意思請直接回答我"},{"start":13214.13,"end":13216.13,"text":"是或錯"},{"start":13216.13,"end":13218.13,"text":"目前是不需要"},{"start":13217.76,"end":13219.76,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13218.84,"end":13220.84,"text":"最近審查電競專法"},{"start":13221.26,"end":13223.26,"text":"運動部很明確的告訴我"},{"start":13223.26,"end":13225.26,"text":"支持電競發展"},{"start":13225.24,"end":13227.24,"text":"但不支持現階段"},{"start":13227.24,"end":13229.24,"text":"立專法"},{"start":13229.24,"end":13231.24,"text":"因為現行有國民體育法"},{"start":13231.24,"end":13233.24,"text":"運動產業發展條例"},{"start":13233.24,"end":13235.24,"text":"已經有法源制度不足"},{"start":13235.24,"end":13237.24,"text":"可以補強也可以透過"},{"start":13237.24,"end":13239.24,"text":"預算的增加或者是"},{"start":13239.24,"end":13241.24,"text":"我們的運動白皮書來做"},{"start":13241.24,"end":13243.24,"text":"協助反觀原住民"},{"start":13243.24,"end":13245.24,"text":"族學校法原民會今天的"},{"start":13245.24,"end":13247.24,"text":"態度剛剛有說"},{"start":13247.24,"end":13249.24,"text":"現階段我們可以先做但不用立"},{"start":13249.24,"end":13251.24,"text":"專法"},{"start":13250.37,"end":13252.37,"text":"那這樣子的話我反而要念"},{"start":13252.37,"end":13254.37,"text":"吳立華招圍喔"},{"start":13254.37,"end":13256.37,"text":"那你這樣是搶牌啊"},{"start":13256.34,"end":13258.34,"text":"人家沒有要訂這個法你怎麼搶牌這個持法呢"},{"start":13260.37,"end":13262.37,"text":"不對嗎"},{"start":13262.67,"end":13264.67,"text":"立法委員就是可以討論嘛"},{"start":13265.82,"end":13267.82,"text":"對不對可是當時我排"},{"start":13267.82,"end":13269.82,"text":"電競法的時候"},{"start":13269.82,"end":13271.82,"text":"側翼攻擊我說我搶牌"},{"start":13271.82,"end":13273.82,"text":"持法說運動"},{"start":13273.82,"end":13275.82,"text":"部不支持專法"},{"start":13275.82,"end":13277.82,"text":"所以我還要排這就是"},{"start":13278.51,"end":13280.51,"text":"故意這就是搶牌"},{"start":13281.26,"end":13283.26,"text":"那今天我要問社會大眾"},{"start":13283.76,"end":13285.76,"text":"吳立華是搶牌嗎"},{"start":13286.26,"end":13288.26,"text":"吳立華是硬著幹嗎"},{"start":13289.57,"end":13291.57,"text":"我不願意這樣解讀"},{"start":13292.49,"end":13294.49,"text":"因為吳立華我看到的是"},{"start":13294.92,"end":13296.92,"text":"他為了原住民"},{"start":13296.86,"end":13298.86,"text":"他必須要跟原住民講我在爭取我努力"},{"start":13298.86,"end":13300.86,"text":"所以排了詢答"},{"start":13300.86,"end":13302.86,"text":"希望討論"},{"start":13302.86,"end":13304.86,"text":"有了討論有了民主"},{"start":13304.86,"end":13306.86,"text":"有了共識就會有"},{"start":13306.86,"end":13308.86,"text":"新的可能跟方案"},{"start":13308.86,"end":13310.86,"text":"出來"},{"start":13311.17,"end":13313.17,"text":"所以我今天"},{"start":13313.34,"end":13315.34,"text":"我希望透過這樣子的一個詢答"},{"start":13315.34,"end":13317.34,"text":"讓社會大眾知道"},{"start":13318.29,"end":13320.29,"text":"本來部會就會有自己的態度"},{"start":13320.29,"end":13322.29,"text":"他可能沒有辦法接受"},{"start":13323.92,"end":13325.92,"text":"但是立法委員會盡可能的去"},{"start":13325.92,"end":13327.92,"text":"凝聚共識討論"},{"start":13327.92,"end":13329.92,"text":"甚至是幫民眾"},{"start":13329.92,"end":13331.92,"text":"發聲"},{"start":13332.06,"end":13334.06,"text":"所以今天我們也看到了"},{"start":13334.06,"end":13336.06,"text":"原民會自己是主管機關"},{"start":13336.06,"end":13338.06,"text":"但是他覺得現階段"},{"start":13338.06,"end":13340.06,"text":"可以透過政策"},{"start":13340.48,"end":13342.48,"text":"來執行不用力專法"},{"start":13342.48,"end":13344.48,"text":"這不就是跟體育部的態度一樣嗎"},{"start":13346.23,"end":13348.23,"text":"吳立華可以排案原住民相關的草案"},{"start":13348.23,"end":13350.23,"text":"我不能排電競草案"},{"start":13350.23,"end":13352.23,"text":"我也希望"},{"start":13352.23,"end":13354.23,"text":"這些側翼這些不懂"},{"start":13355.07,"end":13357.07,"text":"硬要批評的是可兒子"},{"start":13358.79,"end":13360.79,"text":"如果今天原民會認為不需要專法"},{"start":13362.45,"end":13364.45,"text":"副主委坦白說沒關係"},{"start":13364.45,"end":13366.45,"text":"但是現行的制度我們看到"},{"start":13366.45,"end":13368.45,"text":"的確有一些問題"},{"start":13369.13,"end":13371.13,"text":"我們的確看到不足"},{"start":13371.13,"end":13373.13,"text":"希望能夠提出更有願景"},{"start":13373.13,"end":13375.13,"text":"並且能夠"},{"start":13375.13,"end":13377.13,"text":"有實際的期程告訴我們"},{"start":13377.13,"end":13379.13,"text":"你的期程能不能"},{"start":13379.13,"end":13381.13,"text":"達到現階段原住民族"},{"start":13381.13,"end":13383.13,"text":"能夠同意"},{"start":13383.13,"end":13385.13,"text":"所以為什麼會有六個委員提案"},{"start":13385.13,"end":13387.13,"text":"他們認為有必要性"},{"start":13387.13,"end":13389.13,"text":"我剛剛開宗明義就講"},{"start":13389.13,"end":13391.13,"text":"要以專法定制"},{"start":13391.13,"end":13393.13,"text":"但是你們沒有你們透過了"},{"start":13393.13,"end":13395.13,"text":"直接行政的命令也好"},{"start":13395.13,"end":13397.13,"text":"政策也好來告訴大家"},{"start":13397.13,"end":13399.13,"text":"法律就明定要有專法"},{"start":13402.05,"end":13404.05,"text":"所以這些年來原住民族現場"},{"start":13404.05,"end":13406.05,"text":"面臨的問題沒有消失"},{"start":13406.98,"end":13410.98,"text":"族群傳承整個族語的傳承有斷層"},{"start":13410.98,"end":13412.98,"text":"沉浸式的族語教育"},{"start":13412.98,"end":13414.98,"text":"需要有制度的支持"},{"start":13414.98,"end":13416.98,"text":"師資的培育"},{"start":13416.98,"end":13418.98,"text":"聘認課程教材"},{"start":13418.98,"end":13420.98,"text":"等等的制度沒有改善"},{"start":13420.98,"end":13422.98,"text":"行政部門做了2.0"},{"start":13423.99,"end":13425.99,"text":"看起來有作"},{"start":13425.61,"end":13427.61,"text":"但問題還在"},{"start":13427.61,"end":13429.61,"text":"政策的方向沒有整合"},{"start":13429.61,"end":13431.61,"text":"法制的研議有困難"},{"start":13432.56,"end":13434.56,"text":"我要問"},{"start":13434.51,"end":13436.51,"text":"有沒有可能提出一個期程"},{"start":13436.51,"end":13438.51,"text":"你們什麼時候會提出專法"},{"start":13439.47,"end":13441.47,"text":"部主委"},{"start":13442.12,"end":13444.12,"text":"原住民族教育法訴講是各級政府是需要"},{"start":13445.68,"end":13447.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13447.68,"end":13449.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13449.68,"end":13451.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13451.68,"end":13453.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13453.68,"end":13455.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13455.68,"end":13457.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13457.68,"end":13459.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13459.68,"end":13461.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13461.68,"end":13463.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13463.68,"end":13465.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13465.68,"end":13467.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13467.68,"end":13469.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13469.68,"end":13471.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13471.68,"end":13473.68,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13454.22,"end":13456.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13456.22,"end":13458.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13458.22,"end":13460.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13460.22,"end":13462.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13462.22,"end":13464.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13464.22,"end":13466.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13466.22,"end":13468.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13468.22,"end":13470.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13470.22,"end":13472.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13472.22,"end":13474.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13474.22,"end":13476.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13476.22,"end":13478.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13478.22,"end":13480.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13480.22,"end":13482.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13482.22,"end":13484.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13484.22,"end":13486.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13486.22,"end":13488.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13488.22,"end":13490.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13490.22,"end":13492.22,"text":"法律的改善"},{"start":13492.22,"end":134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{"start":13672.12,"end":13674.12,"text":"不會有在努力"},{"start":13674.12,"end":13676.12,"text":"我今天沒有要你承認不會有錯"},{"start":13676.12,"end":13678.12,"text":"但是我們必須要坦白講"},{"start":13678.12,"end":13680.12,"text":"就是需要凝聚共識"},{"start":13680.12,"end":13682.12,"text":"把大家看不到的部分各自來做討論"},{"start":13683.78,"end":13685.78,"text":"那現在我們看到106年立法院"},{"start":13685.78,"end":13687.78,"text":"三讀通過的片源地區"},{"start":13687.78,"end":13689.78,"text":"教育的發展條例當時立法的目的"},{"start":13689.78,"end":13691.78,"text":"就非常清楚就是要強化整個"},{"start":13691.78,"end":13693.78,"text":"學校教育的措施寬練經費"},{"start":13693.78,"end":13695.78,"text":"提供人事課程的整個彈性"},{"start":13695.78,"end":13697.78,"text":"改善教師福利跟住宿的條件"},{"start":13697.78,"end":13699.78,"text":"縮小城鄉教育的落差"},{"start":13699.78,"end":13701.78,"text":"改善整個城鄉教育"},{"start":13701.78,"end":13703.78,"text":"長期存在的失之不足"},{"start":13703.78,"end":13705.78,"text":"這些問題都還存在"},{"start":13705.78,"end":13707.78,"text":"那您認為"},{"start":13707.78,"end":13709.78,"text":"用整個教育行政命令"},{"start":13709.78,"end":13711.78,"text":"用整個政策"},{"start":13711.78,"end":13713.78,"text":"可以把教師的流動率偏高"},{"start":13713.78,"end":13715.78,"text":"把它留下來"},{"start":13715.78,"end":13717.78,"text":"可是我們沒看到有留下來"},{"start":13717.78,"end":13719.78,"text":"所以九年來我們確實看到部分偏鄉學校"},{"start":13719.78,"end":13721.78,"text":"校舍"},{"start":13721.53,"end":13723.53,"text":"設備數位學習"},{"start":13723.53,"end":13725.53,"text":"交通住宿還有硬體學校"},{"start":13725.53,"end":13727.53,"text":"所沒有改善"},{"start":13727.53,"end":13729.53,"text":"絕對沒有改善"},{"start":13729.53,"end":13731.53,"text":"有改善但改善沒有到"},{"start":13731.53,"end":13733.53,"text":"我們要的目標"},{"start":13733.53,"end":13735.53,"text":"流動率已經跟平地是差不多"},{"start":13735.53,"end":13737.53,"text":"我必須承認你有在做"},{"start":13738.07,"end":13740.07,"text":"但是做到沒有符合"},{"start":13740.07,"end":13742.07,"text":"我們的標準"},{"start":13742.07,"end":13744.07,"text":"這樣可以吧"},{"start":13744.07,"end":13746.07,"text":"當然那個本來就是任何"},{"start":13746.07,"end":13748.07,"text":"政策跟執行就可以再進進"},{"start":13748.07,"end":13750.07,"text":"所以我們看到"},{"start":13750.07,"end":13752.07,"text":"整個國民黨籍的"},{"start":13752.07,"end":13754.07,"text":"我們地方的"},{"start":13754.07,"end":13756.07,"text":"原住民的一些議員"},{"start":13756.07,"end":13758.07,"text":"民代地方士生到現在"},{"start":13758.07,"end":13760.07,"text":"中央的立法委員在反應"},{"start":13760.07,"end":13762.07,"text":"我們就是要來修"},{"start":13762.07,"end":13764.07,"text":"希望能夠更具體的入法"},{"start":13764.07,"end":13766.07,"text":"保障這些所有原住民族"},{"start":13766.07,"end":13768.07,"text":"他們應該有的教育"},{"start":13768.07,"end":13770.07,"text":"受教權"},{"start":13770.07,"end":13772.07,"text":"還有他們的相關的資源"},{"start":13772.07,"end":13774.07,"text":"這點我們尊重委員的提案"},{"start":13774.07,"end":13776.07,"text":"我希望今天下午我們能夠更加"},{"start":13776.07,"end":13778.07,"text":"聚焦在整個"},{"start":13778.07,"end":13780.07,"text":"延攬培育留任支持"},{"start":13780.07,"end":13782.07,"text":"四個面向把它能夠"},{"start":13782.07,"end":13784.07,"text":"透過下午的修法"},{"start":13784.07,"end":13786.07,"text":"凝聚共識把它給完成"},{"start":13786.07,"end":13788.07,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":13787.82,"end":13789.82,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13802.97,"end":13804.97,"text":"要另立專法"},{"start":13804.97,"end":13806.97,"text":"讓需要設立的"},{"start":13806.97,"end":13808.97,"text":"縣市有一個法源"},{"start":13808.97,"end":13810.97,"text":"依據來設立"},{"start":13810.97,"end":13812.97,"text":"至於現在所"},{"start":13812.97,"end":13814.97,"text":"事辦的原住民族學校"},{"start":13814.97,"end":13816.97,"text":"它的設立條件"},{"start":13816.97,"end":13818.97,"text":"目前是且站且走"},{"start":13818.97,"end":13820.97,"text":"但是我們希望"},{"start":13820.97,"end":13822.97,"text":"跟未來我們"},{"start":13822.97,"end":13824.97,"text":"所研擬出來我們最後"},{"start":13824.97,"end":13826.97,"text":"大家有共識版本的"},{"start":13826.97,"end":13828.97,"text":"這個條文"},{"start":13828.97,"end":13830.97,"text":"希望是透過這個事辦"},{"start":13830.97,"end":13832.97,"text":"要去扣和"},{"start":13832.97,"end":13834.97,"text":"要不然這個設立的條件"},{"start":13834.97,"end":13836.97,"text":"不夠明確清楚"},{"start":13836.97,"end":13838.97,"text":"未來會造成需要設立的縣市"},{"start":13838.97,"end":13840.97,"text":"的一個困擾"},{"start":13840.97,"end":13842.97,"text":"謝謝羅廷瑋召委特別關心"},{"start":13842.97,"end":13844.97,"text":"我們原住民族學校的議題"},{"start":13844.97,"end":13846.97,"text":"接下來我們有請"},{"start":13846.97,"end":13848.97,"text":"蘇青泉委員"},{"start":13848.97,"end":13850.97,"text":"蘇青泉委員不在"},{"start":13850.97,"end":13852.97,"text":"楊瓊英委員不在"},{"start":13852.97,"end":13854.97,"text":"李博義委員"},{"start":13854.97,"end":13856.97,"text":"李博義委員不在"},{"start":13856.97,"end":13858.97,"text":"今天最後一位"},{"start":13858.97,"end":13860.97,"text":"有請蔡益妤委員"},{"start":13860.97,"end":13862.97,"text":"來進行詢答"},{"start":13868.36,"end":13870.36,"text":"謝謝召委"},{"start":13870.36,"end":13872.36,"text":"那我們這邊有請教育部市長"},{"start":13872.99,"end":13874.99,"text":"有請次長"},{"start":13876.98,"end":13878.98,"text":"委員好"},{"start":13878.5,"end":13880.5,"text":"好 次長好"},{"start":13880.5,"end":13882.5,"text":"今天當然召委排審"},{"start":13882.5,"end":13884.5,"text":"原住民學校法"},{"start":13884.5,"end":13886.5,"text":"透過這樣未來可以讓"},{"start":13886.5,"end":13888.5,"text":"原住民的學校"},{"start":13888.5,"end":13890.5,"text":"在每一個縣市可以落實"},{"start":13890.5,"end":13892.5,"text":"我們當然是樂觀其成"},{"start":13892.5,"end":13894.5,"text":"那事實上我想要跟"},{"start":13894.5,"end":13896.5,"text":"借用這樣的詢答的機會"},{"start":13896.5,"end":13898.5,"text":"事實上想要跟次長聊一下"},{"start":13898.5,"end":13900.5,"text":"因為我們的本土語言"},{"start":13900.5,"end":13902.5,"text":"使用的人口下降"},{"start":13902.5,"end":13904.5,"text":"這件事情"},{"start":13904.5,"end":13906.5,"text":"那我不知道教育部"},{"start":13906.5,"end":13908.5,"text":"現在是否有去注意到"},{"start":13908.5,"end":13910.5,"text":"那在國家語言發展法"},{"start":13910.5,"end":13912.5,"text":"通過之後"},{"start":13912.5,"end":13914.5,"text":"三讀過"},{"start":13914.5,"end":13916.5,"text":"那保障每一個固有族群的"},{"start":13916.5,"end":13918.5,"text":"語言的使用權利"},{"start":13918.5,"end":13920.5,"text":"基本上是一個很重要的"},{"start":13920.5,"end":13922.5,"text":"那當然國家語言發展法的"},{"start":13922.5,"end":13924.5,"text":"主管機關是文化部"},{"start":13924.5,"end":13926.5,"text":"但是在落實上"},{"start":13926.5,"end":13928.5,"text":"可能還是要從教育"},{"start":13928.5,"end":13930.5,"text":"來招手"},{"start":13930.5,"end":13932.5,"text":"所以事實上我跟教育部這邊"},{"start":13932.5,"end":13934.5,"text":"也有溝通過"},{"start":13934.5,"end":13936.5,"text":"那我先給大家看這個數字"},{"start":13936.5,"end":13938.5,"text":"數字"},{"start":13938.5,"end":13940.5,"text":"現在大概我們先回到"},{"start":13940.5,"end":13942.5,"text":"現在使用最多的本土語言"},{"start":13942.5,"end":13944.5,"text":"就是台語"},{"start":13944.5,"end":13946.5,"text":"那台語的話大概彰化、南投、雲林、嘉義、台南、屏東"},{"start":13946.5,"end":13948.5,"text":"這六個縣市是台語使用比例最高的"},{"start":13948.5,"end":13950.5,"text":"這六個縣市是台語使用比例最高的"},{"start":13950.5,"end":13952.5,"text":"那嘉義、雲林、彰化"},{"start":13952.5,"end":13954.5,"text":"有超過60%"},{"start":13954.5,"end":13956.5,"text":"但是"},{"start":13956.11,"end":13958.11,"text":"這個數字是60%"},{"start":13958.11,"end":13960.11,"text":"我們在機長看到的"},{"start":13960.11,"end":13962.11,"text":"我們下一代的小朋友"},{"start":13962.11,"end":13964.11,"text":"他使用台語的機會"},{"start":13964.11,"end":13966.11,"text":"實在哪來哪就去"},{"start":13966.11,"end":13968.11,"text":"小朋友會有台語"},{"start":13968.11,"end":13970.11,"text":"尤其他人不跟阿公阿嬤大熱會"},{"start":13970.11,"end":13972.11,"text":"他實在要使用台語的機會"},{"start":13972.11,"end":13974.11,"text":"所以我想要具體的"},{"start":13974.11,"end":13976.11,"text":"來跟我們教育部這邊"},{"start":13976.11,"end":13978.11,"text":"來提出一個訴求"},{"start":13978.11,"end":13980.11,"text":"未來我們在教育的這一塊"},{"start":13980.11,"end":13982.11,"text":"如果學校方是同意的"},{"start":13982.11,"end":13984.11,"text":"那能不能所謂"},{"start":13984.11,"end":13986.11,"text":"使用的"},{"start":13986.11,"end":13988.11,"text":"叫做客視語言的轉型"},{"start":13988.11,"end":13990.11,"text":"客視語言的意思就是說"},{"start":13990.11,"end":13992.11,"text":"客視語言的意思就是說"},{"start":13992.11,"end":13994.11,"text":"除了我在教數學的時候"},{"start":13994.11,"end":13996.11,"text":"1加1等於2"},{"start":13996.11,"end":13998.11,"text":"這件事情他是用"},{"start":13998.11,"end":14000.11,"text":"國語"},{"start":14000.11,"end":14002.11,"text":"他是用所謂的華語"},{"start":14002.11,"end":14004.11,"text":"的教學"},{"start":14004.11,"end":14006.11,"text":"但是小朋友這塊你會不會笑"},{"start":14006.11,"end":14008.11,"text":"還是你會不會"},{"start":14008.11,"end":14010.11,"text":"把這個印出來"},{"start":14010.11,"end":14012.11,"text":"打寫出來"},{"start":14012.11,"end":14014.11,"text":"是不是可以回到用台語"},{"start":14014.11,"end":14016.11,"text":"就是說在上課的這個過程中"},{"start":14016.11,"end":14018.11,"text":"鼓勵老師"},{"start":14018.11,"end":14020.11,"text":"他們在於"},{"start":14020.11,"end":14022.11,"text":"教學的過程中"},{"start":14022.11,"end":14024.11,"text":"在教化學試的時候"},{"start":14024.11,"end":14026.11,"text":"以前在背什麼皮美蓋斯"},{"start":14026.11,"end":14028.11,"text":"背那個什麼辛辣夾爐色法"},{"start":14028.11,"end":14030.11,"text":"在背的時候"},{"start":14030.11,"end":14032.11,"text":"有國語"},{"start":14032.11,"end":14034.11,"text":"不過在學問的時候"},{"start":14034.11,"end":14036.11,"text":"今天小朋友來"},{"start":14036.11,"end":14038.11,"text":"我們的課本可以開第一了"},{"start":14038.11,"end":14040.11,"text":"這有辦法用台語來上課"},{"start":14040.11,"end":14042.11,"text":"就尊重學校"},{"start":14042.11,"end":14044.11,"text":"但是尊重學校要有誘因給他們"},{"start":14046.11,"end":14048.11,"text":"誘因就是說如果學校願意用"},{"start":14048.11,"end":14050.11,"text":"客視語言來做"},{"start":14050.11,"end":14052.11,"text":"教學的一個基礎的話"},{"start":14052.11,"end":14054.11,"text":"那是不是我可以給學校"},{"start":14054.11,"end":14056.11,"text":"另外的獎勵或者是給他"},{"start":14056.11,"end":14058.11,"text":"老師直接給老師"},{"start":14058.11,"end":14060.11,"text":"這樣的一個獎勵"},{"start":14060.11,"end":14062.11,"text":"讓他是說他的台語"},{"start":14062.11,"end":14064.11,"text":"跟他的上課的內容"},{"start":14064.11,"end":14066.11,"text":"是穿插的"},{"start":14066.11,"end":14068.11,"text":"因為小朋友的時候"},{"start":14068.11,"end":14070.11,"text":"因為年輕的時候他的學語言能力"},{"start":14070.11,"end":14072.11,"text":"是最好的時候"},{"start":14072.11,"end":14074.11,"text":"那時候他小時候"},{"start":14074.11,"end":14076.11,"text":"習慣有客視語言"},{"start":14076.11,"end":14078.11,"text":"也不會只有台語喔"},{"start":14078.11,"end":14080.11,"text":"如果是原住民在我們阿里山"},{"start":14080.11,"end":14082.11,"text":"鄒族的語言"},{"start":14082.11,"end":14084.11,"text":"小朋友就和他對話"},{"start":14084.11,"end":14086.11,"text":"平常對話說你有沒有吃飽"},{"start":14086.11,"end":14088.11,"text":"來上課了你該乖要黏牙"},{"start":14088.11,"end":14090.11,"text":"不要說話"},{"start":14090.11,"end":14092.11,"text":"這個話有辦法在語言"},{"start":14092.11,"end":14094.11,"text":"在課堂上都讓他充分"},{"start":14094.11,"end":14096.11,"text":"呈現出來之後"},{"start":14096.11,"end":14098.11,"text":"未來這些小朋友他未來"},{"start":14098.11,"end":14100.11,"text":"他要跟別人說話"},{"start":14100.11,"end":14102.11,"text":"他可以講一半國語像我現在"},{"start":14102.11,"end":14104.11,"text":"我也國語吃一半"},{"start":14104.11,"end":14106.11,"text":"我要切換台語我就切換自如"},{"start":14106.11,"end":14108.11,"text":"為什麼我就切換自如"},{"start":14108.11,"end":14110.11,"text":"因為我小時候我阿嬤"},{"start":14110.11,"end":14112.11,"text":"我爸爸在對話的時候"},{"start":14112.11,"end":14114.11,"text":"我們就會說台語"},{"start":14114.11,"end":14116.11,"text":"有時候跟別人說國語"},{"start":14116.11,"end":14118.11,"text":"我就很自然的切換"},{"start":14118.11,"end":14120.11,"text":"現在小朋友喪失這樣的能力"},{"start":14120.11,"end":14122.11,"text":"那我覺得說"},{"start":14122.11,"end":14124.11,"text":"這夠有保一定我就來扮演"},{"start":14124.11,"end":14126.11,"text":"我會鼓勵大家這麼做"},{"start":14126.11,"end":14128.11,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":14128.11,"end":14130.11,"text":"你提的那四點"},{"start":14130.11,"end":14132.11,"text":"包括自願申請用客式語言"},{"start":14132.11,"end":14134.11,"text":"就用台語"},{"start":14134.11,"end":14136.11,"text":"現在有客語"},{"start":14136.11,"end":14138.11,"text":"我們基本上都會同意"},{"start":14138.11,"end":14140.11,"text":"那已經有老師"},{"start":14140.11,"end":14142.11,"text":"目前也是用這樣在上課"},{"start":14142.11,"end":14144.11,"text":"那至於你講的這個"},{"start":14144.11,"end":14146.11,"text":"我們的部分"},{"start":14146.11,"end":14148.11,"text":"我們會編列更多的經費"},{"start":14148.11,"end":14150.11,"text":"來提供參與教室行政講座跟續講"},{"start":14150.11,"end":14152.11,"text":"這部分我們已經也有在鼓勵"},{"start":14152.11,"end":14154.11,"text":"另外就是部長也很重視"},{"start":14154.11,"end":14156.11,"text":"他也特別去交代從幼兒園"},{"start":14156.11,"end":14158.11,"text":"到高中能夠強化"},{"start":14158.11,"end":14160.11,"text":"那種沉浸式的"},{"start":14160.11,"end":14162.11,"text":"這種學習"},{"start":14162.11,"end":14164.11,"text":"就是說我可能在這個"},{"start":14164.11,"end":14166.11,"text":"這節裡面我全部都用台語"},{"start":14166.11,"end":14168.11,"text":"有那個環境"},{"start":14168.11,"end":14170.11,"text":"我們就可以用台語來講話"},{"start":14170.11,"end":14172.11,"text":"跟學習"},{"start":14172.11,"end":14174.11,"text":"所以這部分我們有在深化"},{"start":14174.11,"end":14176.11,"text":"跟強化這部分"},{"start":14176.11,"end":14178.11,"text":"我覺得這件事情"},{"start":14178.11,"end":14180.11,"text":"不要回到老師"},{"start":14180.11,"end":14182.11,"text":"有的到有的回到"},{"start":14182.11,"end":14184.11,"text":"重視這件事情的老師"},{"start":14184.11,"end":14186.11,"text":"那有一點就是在消耗"},{"start":14186.11,"end":14188.11,"text":"消耗老師的熱情"},{"start":14188.11,"end":14190.11,"text":"我覺得事實上還是可以"},{"start":14190.11,"end":14192.11,"text":"用學校為單位"},{"start":14192.11,"end":14194.11,"text":"這學校願意投入對於"},{"start":14194.11,"end":14196.11,"text":"台語的重視這一塊"},{"start":14196.11,"end":14198.11,"text":"教育部抓這間學校另外給他"},{"start":14198.11,"end":14200.11,"text":"額外的補助"},{"start":14200.11,"end":14202.11,"text":"讓校長去鼓勵這些老師"},{"start":14202.11,"end":14204.11,"text":"他們可能做他們的背課的時候"},{"start":14204.11,"end":14206.11,"text":"他們自我會"},{"start":14206.11,"end":14208.11,"text":"會去提醒說"},{"start":14208.11,"end":14210.11,"text":"下一堂課"},{"start":14210.11,"end":14212.11,"text":"我要怎麼用更深刻的東西"},{"start":14212.11,"end":14214.11,"text":"給孩子在課堂中"},{"start":14214.11,"end":14216.11,"text":"學到更多台語的對話"},{"start":14216.11,"end":14218.11,"text":"讓他整個"},{"start":14218.11,"end":14220.11,"text":"這個沉浸式"},{"start":14220.11,"end":14222.11,"text":"的教學是很重要"},{"start":14222.11,"end":14224.11,"text":"我們以後會用這樣的方式"},{"start":14224.11,"end":14226.11,"text":"用鼓勵的方式"},{"start":14226.11,"end":14228.11,"text":"譬如說這個學校他的推動"},{"start":14228.11,"end":14230.11,"text":"有達到一個標準我們就給他認證"},{"start":14230.11,"end":14232.11,"text":"譬如說本土語言有關台語的部分"},{"start":14232.11,"end":14234.11,"text":"給他續講"},{"start":14234.11,"end":14236.11,"text":"他推動到一定的程度"},{"start":14236.11,"end":14238.11,"text":"有一個認證的標準"},{"start":14238.11,"end":14240.11,"text":"就像有些學校"},{"start":14240.11,"end":14242.11,"text":"事實上最實際的還是回到預算"},{"start":14242.11,"end":14244.11,"text":"我覺得預算來抓一些預算"},{"start":14244.11,"end":14246.11,"text":"如果學校願意這樣做"},{"start":14246.11,"end":14248.11,"text":"我給他再怎樣"},{"start":14248.11,"end":14250.11,"text":"一些獎金"},{"start":14250.11,"end":14252.11,"text":"讓老師"},{"start":14252.11,"end":14254.11,"text":"有這樣更有熱情"},{"start":14254.11,"end":14256.11,"text":"而且我有熱情"},{"start":14256.11,"end":14258.11,"text":"是做這件事我還可以得到"},{"start":14258.11,"end":14260.11,"text":"更好的一些待遇"},{"start":14260.11,"end":14262.11,"text":"我覺得很多熱情還是需要"},{"start":14262.11,"end":14264.11,"text":"物質上的東西"},{"start":14264.11,"end":14266.11,"text":"去撐住他的熱情"},{"start":14266.11,"end":14268.11,"text":"嘉義可能就台語"},{"start":14268.11,"end":14270.11,"text":"像我們中埔"},{"start":14270.11,"end":14272.11,"text":"也有一些客家"},{"start":14272.11,"end":14274.11,"text":"如果他們學校願意採用"},{"start":14274.11,"end":14276.11,"text":"用客家化的"},{"start":14276.11,"end":14278.11,"text":"客語的"},{"start":14278.11,"end":14280.11,"text":"一個情境環境"},{"start":14280.11,"end":14282.11,"text":"我們阿里山那裡"},{"start":14282.11,"end":14284.11,"text":"有周族語言的情境環境"},{"start":14284.11,"end":14286.11,"text":"他們願意學校老師"},{"start":14286.11,"end":14288.11,"text":"來把這一塊做出來的話"},{"start":14288.11,"end":14290.11,"text":"教育部要更加的獎勵他們"},{"start":14290.11,"end":14292.11,"text":"可以啦這是本土語的認證"},{"start":14292.11,"end":14294.11,"text":"我們個人跟學校"},{"start":14294.11,"end":14296.11,"text":"我們團體的部分我們來努力"},{"start":14296.11,"end":14298.11,"text":"那就麻煩市長"},{"start":14299.06,"end":14303.06,"text":"謝謝蔡議員委員的質詢"},{"start":14303.06,"end":14305.06,"text":"請觀眾回座"},{"start":14305.06,"end":14307.06,"text":"我也在這邊補充說明"},{"start":14307.06,"end":14309.06,"text":"因為剛才蔡議員委員"},{"start":14309.06,"end":14311.06,"text":"跟王美慧委員"},{"start":14311.06,"end":14313.06,"text":"兩人做了最佳的示範"},{"start":14313.06,"end":14315.06,"text":"對"},{"start":14315.06,"end":14317.06,"text":"我們也希望我們的原住民族學校"},{"start":14317.06,"end":14319.06,"text":"能夠"},{"start":14319.06,"end":14321.06,"text":"做這樣的事情"},{"start":14321.06,"end":14323.06,"text":"只是因為我們的語言喪失的"},{"start":14323.06,"end":14325.06,"text":"已經非常非常多了"},{"start":14325.06,"end":14327.06,"text":"因為不容易"},{"start":14327.06,"end":14329.06,"text":"所以我們在課程"},{"start":14329.06,"end":14331.06,"text":"教材上可能比起"},{"start":14331.06,"end":14333.06,"text":"漢族或客家"},{"start":14333.06,"end":14335.06,"text":"閩南更困難"},{"start":14335.06,"end":14337.06,"text":"所以我們需要原住民族學校法"},{"start":14337.06,"end":14339.06,"text":"立法"},{"start":14339.06,"end":14341.06,"text":"有這個制度"},{"start":14341.06,"end":14343.06,"text":"有這個事項"},{"start":14343.06,"end":14345.06,"text":"讓未來我們要做這樣的學校的時候"},{"start":14345.06,"end":14347.06,"text":"有更彈性的法制"},{"start":14347.06,"end":14349.06,"text":"讓我們能夠成功"},{"start":14349.06,"end":14351.06,"text":"非常感謝蔡議員委員"},{"start":14351.06,"end":14353.06,"text":"給我們這樣一個啟發"},{"start":14353.06,"end":14355.06,"text":"現在"},{"start":14355.06,"end":14357.06,"text":"登記質詢的委員"},{"start":14357.06,"end":14359.06,"text":"均已發言完畢"},{"start":14359.06,"end":14361.06,"text":"詢答結束"},{"start":14361.06,"end":14363.06,"text":"對於委員質詢所要求提供的相關資料"},{"start":14363.06,"end":14365.06,"text":"或未集答覆的部分"},{"start":14365.06,"end":14367.06,"text":"請相關機關緊速"},{"start":14367.06,"end":14369.06,"text":"以書面答覆"},{"start":14369.06,"end":14371.06,"text":"另外有委員張志倫"},{"start":14371.06,"end":14373.06,"text":"吳佩儀 黃捷 傅坤琦"},{"start":14373.06,"end":14375.06,"text":"李柏毅 林怡錦"},{"start":14375.06,"end":14377.06,"text":"柯志恩 許中信"},{"start":14377.06,"end":14379.06,"text":"等委員提出"},{"start":14379.06,"end":14381.06,"text":"書面質詢"},{"start":14381.06,"end":14383.06,"text":"還有包括高競速媒委員"},{"start":14383.06,"end":14385.06,"text":"請參考議題"},{"start":14385.06,"end":14387.06,"text":"並請相關機關以書面答覆"},{"start":14387.06,"end":14389.06,"text":"原住民族學校法相關草案"},{"start":14389.06,"end":14391.06,"text":"另定期"},{"start":14391.06,"end":14393.06,"text":"繼續審查"},{"start":14393.06,"end":14395.06,"text":"本次會議的議事錄"},{"start":14395.06,"end":14397.06,"text":"授權主席確認後"},{"start":14397.06,"end":14399.06,"text":"及上傳立法院"},{"start":14399.06,"end":14401.06,"text":"全球資訊網公開"},{"start":14401.06,"end":14403.06,"text":"報告委員會議程"},{"start":14403.06,"end":14405.06,"text":"處理完畢"},{"start":14405.06,"end":14407.06,"text":"辛苦大家現在散會"},{"start":14408.09,"end":14410.09,"text":"不好意思"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":538.45,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_00","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":4459.52,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_01","speaker":"SPEAKER_08","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":346.95,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_02","speaker":"SPEAKER_05","embedding":"007wvcZ+sD0rnEI+fBJuPj6QXr57DLs9qTknPlcgG77Zq7M9Ml48PgMkSD21fk893WRDvCb1DT3w2rQ9sKeCvhgvqr1EL9y9DAHbPYdaBbzuhAy+dv7dPVZFSz3wBoY+12BnPo5Qyz7JaMw7EanzvXo+Q76/22g8myEePkvuab7zgzW9eSpsPbnRzT1bCzu+0Ac1Pq3Lvb53lq+9ulXQO5gJEL3/NHu9sP4/PWyIez2/3xK8WUzUPbEhYb4g5f08NJfLPRjuvD0GpcK+MC6APgNWTj50zFQ+YkVLvcVeb7xOx4s9D840Pq+ut75d0TA7ZxgmvvfVlb11DeY9n816Pbkd1bxErXs+vDX4vThg1b3Cqj+9QdwNPeCxND1RaJA+xC0uPk1QGD4IVZi+6quivEhdar7KRy89C7XjPIQHSb6L8Lu9kmKJPjmMyj1qVLQ922/Lvf3X6b0XRI69prbhvUPIBD3nXyu+yI4GPn9fE71xDYS9mgwavca/ar7H9Es9ZMxIPJaKcb1SbQ4+wWeKvizC+zzYUXY+m9mOPAEUpb1IiaO8t7RmPv4Qyj3k7KA9LvFOPvYgqD1mS2o99yWcPeHRB72nlae9OB4/vYYC2b0zKoM9mVgOvrNv/b335Yo8nxKkPbdOQ777Iq29ZBt2PCHDEbph4Jc9lDOzPZPJ5zzGbfe8IftovticmLzTGpC+6kAevW/+tj0LzkQ+TuTFvTnZHr5ZXYo+ODnfvWb4Nz30LBi+pg/gvDy6FD5KAFW9ZyQ7vrRgED4wLle+oocmPVUvyL0mE82+5Jj2vXuZzb1N7pK9d+utPVBlCD6NJgc+JrlBvder872eyC+9UzALPpDcK75A/2g99rHVvP2OAD5uNhG+BLUFPYa/Rb6ELdy9HKQlvpuiHr7e4BK+RmKEPQNIWb4QSTW+nCSUPYD1bz3yoK89FtPOvWHXqD0J8O47hJxMvRJIVL5QlpQ9dwecPUpCnz4Z0iy91X8pPqucmb0GpmW95KPyvGvrKb5vnPw9z2VnvcGzV72c4Za8tlcXvQ1O1zz9LS49Lfb0PT5aiD7Tkku+kkBxvvB8DT5QuHG9hC/4PeIWfz7utF07Hsw2PrIPDT44rjw+fp2IPC0/2bxNVo8+JqtnvaHa1j1oDVI+WhcMvix97L1YgC2+15oiPiuboT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