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尼古丁產製品及其他有害身心健康之物質"},{"start":1582.02,"end":1590.02,"text":"8.第7條 第8條 第10條 第21條及第25條均不予以修正"},{"start":1590.02,"end":1594.02,"text":"維持現行條文通過附帶決議五項"},{"start":1595.02,"end":1600.02,"text":"3.在不影響條文之文藝前提下"},{"start":1600.02,"end":1603.02,"text":"文字條次標點五號為統一體力"},{"start":1603.02,"end":1605.02,"text":"授權議事人員整理"},{"start":1605.02,"end":1606.02,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":1608.02,"end":1612.02,"text":"請問各位委員 上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":1612.02,"end":1615.02,"text":"好 議事錄確定"},{"start":1616.02,"end":1619.02,"text":"本次的會議議程是繼續審查"},{"start":1619.02,"end":1621.02,"text":"委員柯臻恩等18人擬具"},{"start":1621.02,"end":1627.02,"text":"偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案等39案"},{"start":1627.02,"end":1631.02,"text":"首先我們來介紹在場的委員"},{"start":1631.02,"end":1635.02,"text":"有陳培喻委員 郭怡芹委員"},{"start":1635.02,"end":1636.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1636.02,"end":1639.02,"text":"接著來介紹與會的官員"},{"start":1639.02,"end":1643.02,"text":"教育部的政務次長張廖萬堅次長"},{"start":1643.02,"end":1647.02,"text":"教育部國前署的彭富源署長"},{"start":1648.02,"end":1655.02,"text":"內政部國土署建築管理組的檢認證工程司盧昭宏"},{"start":1655.02,"end":1662.02,"text":"衛福部護理及健康照護司的副司長陳青梅"},{"start":1662.02,"end":1663.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1664.02,"end":1668.02,"text":"再來是法務部的汪南君參事"},{"start":1668.02,"end":1673.02,"text":"以及原民會教文處的黃明廷科長"},{"start":1673.02,"end":1680.02,"text":"還有行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處的專門委員張松根"},{"start":1680.02,"end":1687.02,"text":"其餘列席的機關代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄"},{"start":1689.02,"end":1692.02,"text":"請問是否委員要做提案說明"},{"start":1692.02,"end":1695.02,"text":"好 有請羅庭偉 趙偉"},{"start":1704.02,"end":1710.02,"text":"平原地區學校教育發展條例第15條第17條條文修正草案"},{"start":1710.02,"end":1717.02,"text":"我想跟大家分享106年三讀通過的平原地區教育發展條例"},{"start":1717.02,"end":1722.02,"text":"希望透過強化學校教育措施寬列經費"},{"start":1722.02,"end":1730.02,"text":"彈性的運用整個相關的人事及提高老師福利措施等"},{"start":1730.02,"end":1734.02,"text":"這些方式都是希望能夠解決資源的落差"},{"start":1734.02,"end":1740.02,"text":"教師流動率高還有偏鄉學校的辦學困境"},{"start":1740.02,"end":1747.02,"text":"這些都是以往我們在地方好幾個原民的議員一直不斷跟我們分享"},{"start":1747.02,"end":1750.02,"text":"包括台中吳建德議員他也在講"},{"start":1750.02,"end":1754.02,"text":"至今九年過去的偏鄉的失知不穩定"},{"start":1754.02,"end":1760.02,"text":"高流動性透過過去這些老問題面臨的挑戰依舊存在"},{"start":1760.02,"end":1764.02,"text":"因此政策及立法需要進一步的來努力"},{"start":1764.02,"end":1769.02,"text":"希望透過制度性的一個調整能夠穩定整個失知的結構"},{"start":1769.02,"end":1776.02,"text":"甚至在這一次我們所共同提案擬具的這個15條跟第17條條文修正"},{"start":1776.02,"end":1781.02,"text":"就是要求主管機關能夠建立偏遠地區學校"},{"start":1781.02,"end":1785.02,"text":"教師培立的支持系統跟資源庫"},{"start":1785.02,"end":1792.02,"text":"並將整個代理代課的老師還有未有教師證教師的納入支持的對象"},{"start":1792.02,"end":1796.02,"text":"讓偏鄉的孩子有更穩定更有品質的教育"},{"start":1796.02,"end":1802.02,"text":"這些都是協助偏鄉教育也希望能夠獲得朝野的認同"},{"start":1802.02,"end":1804.02,"text":"大家一起來努力以上"},{"start":1805.02,"end":1808.02,"text":"好謝謝羅廷瑋、趙偉"},{"start":1808.02,"end":1811.02,"text":"請問還有沒有其他委員要做提案說明"},{"start":1811.02,"end":1813.02,"text":"好那我們提案說明結束"},{"start":1816.02,"end":1824.02,"text":"本案分別於第一會期本會第十次及第十七次會議詢答及廣泛討論完畢"},{"start":1824.02,"end":1828.02,"text":"於第四會期本會第十三次會議詢答完畢"},{"start":1828.02,"end":1836.02,"text":"本次新增委員范雲等提案二十二案不再進行詢答並入本次的共同審查"},{"start":1836.02,"end":1839.02,"text":"現在我們繼續進行逐條審查"},{"start":1839.02,"end":1843.02,"text":"請議事人員宣讀提案條文並進行討論與協商"},{"start":1843.02,"end":1848.02,"text":"討論的時候如果有新增修正動議請一併宣讀"},{"start":1848.02,"end":1853.02,"text":"討論的時候請參閱教育部提供的書面資料並列入公報記錄"},{"start":1853.02,"end":1857.02,"text":"請宣讀也請機關代表到協商桌"},{"start":1859.02,"end":1864.02,"text":"偏野地區學校教育發展條例部分條文修正草案"},{"start":1864.02,"end":1868.02,"text":"第四條委員郭玉琴等提案第一項"},{"start":1868.02,"end":1875.02,"text":"與社會經濟條件或增訂文字圍或其他族群造成教育資源不足之因素"},{"start":1875.02,"end":1880.02,"text":"自有教學條件顯著不利之功力高級中等以下學校"},{"start":1880.02,"end":1884.02,"text":"增訂第二項前項所剩其他因素因綜合考量下列項目"},{"start":1884.02,"end":1891.02,"text":"一學生人數及變動情形二自治流動率三學生文化背景家庭自治程度"},{"start":1891.02,"end":1897.02,"text":"是其他經中央主管機關認定之一影響學校教育教學條件指令數"},{"start":1897.02,"end":1903.02,"text":"原第二項第三項第四項第四項第三項具所修正為"},{"start":1903.02,"end":1908.02,"text":"偏野地區學校應依資源不足程度予以分級並與地方主管機關後"},{"start":1908.02,"end":1917.02,"text":"文字修正為校長代表、教師代表、各學段學生代表、專家學者及民間團體代表"},{"start":1917.02,"end":1922.02,"text":"共同訂定並因每兩年定期檢討與修正"},{"start":1922.02,"end":1928.02,"text":"第四項具所刪除第一項學校名其一位修正為葛如軍等提案"},{"start":1928.02,"end":1934.02,"text":"增訂第二項前項其他因素因綜合考量學生人數侵蝕參與程度"},{"start":1934.02,"end":1941.02,"text":"教師流動率、當地知識、社會、經濟及文化背景、交通學、公共設施不一樣"},{"start":1941.02,"end":1946.02,"text":"物件情形及其他主要影響、學生學校教學條件指令數"},{"start":1946.02,"end":1952.02,"text":"原第二項第三項第四項第四項第五項第四項第五項與地方主管機關後"},{"start":1952.02,"end":1958.02,"text":"增訂文字校長代表、教師代表、學生代表、專家學者及民間代表"},{"start":1958.02,"end":1961.02,"text":"共同訂定及為修正"},{"start":1961.02,"end":1964.02,"text":"同一層分類等提案增訂第二項"},{"start":1964.02,"end":1969.02,"text":"請向其他因素因綜合考量學生人數教師教學"},{"start":1969.02,"end":1974.02,"text":"教師流動率、學生文化背景、家庭知識及學"},{"start":1974.02,"end":1977.02,"text":"與其他主要影響學校教學條件指令數"},{"start":1977.02,"end":1981.02,"text":"原第二項第三項第二項第二項第三項及第四項第三項具所"},{"start":1981.02,"end":1983.02,"text":"具所增訂第一項"},{"start":1983.02,"end":1990.02,"text":"中斷與地方主管機關後增訂文字校長代表、教師代表、學生代表"},{"start":1990.02,"end":1995.02,"text":"專家學者及民間代表及同等訂定並一枚兩枚"},{"start":1995.02,"end":1998.02,"text":"每四二年檢討修正及無畏修正"},{"start":1998.02,"end":2000.02,"text":"領域需進一等提案"},{"start":2000.02,"end":2005.02,"text":"第二項第二項修正意義起偏遠程度寓意分級"},{"start":2005.02,"end":2010.02,"text":"並與地方主管機關訂定後增訂文字社長代表、"},{"start":2010.02,"end":2014.02,"text":"同學教生代表、學生文素師資穩定度"},{"start":2014.02,"end":2016.02,"text":"領域需進一等提案"},{"start":2016.02,"end":2019.02,"text":"第三項第四項第五項第五項第四項"},{"start":2019.02,"end":2021.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2021.02,"end":2023.02,"text":"第四項提案"},{"start":2023.02,"end":2025.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2025.02,"end":2027.02,"text":"第四項提案"},{"start":2027.02,"end":2029.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2029.02,"end":2031.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2031.02,"end":2033.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2033.02,"end":2035.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2035.02,"end":2037.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2037.02,"end":2039.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2039.02,"end":2041.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2041.02,"end":2045.02,"text":"包括進修補助、專業研習、教學補助"},{"start":2045.02,"end":2050.02,"text":"資料諮詢及其他必要重視請教方向提升教師"},{"start":2050.02,"end":2054.02,"text":"留任意義及教學品質的目標並定其檢討其成項"},{"start":2054.02,"end":2056.02,"text":"一期調查以依法的提案"},{"start":2056.02,"end":2058.02,"text":"第二項中斷"},{"start":2058.02,"end":2060.02,"text":"領域需進一等提案"},{"start":2060.02,"end":2062.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2062.02,"end":2064.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2064.02,"end":2066.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2066.02,"end":2068.02,"text":"第五項提案"},{"start":2068.02,"end":2070.02,"text":"進用代理教師補助"},{"start":2070.02,"end":2077.02,"text":"第二項進用增訂應全能補助地方骨管器官派式專品教師"},{"start":2077.02,"end":2082.02,"text":"未在研習限制至專品教師內容品品其用更新後證"},{"start":2082.02,"end":2085.02,"text":"第三項居所修正"},{"start":2085.02,"end":2089.02,"text":"具教師資格至其餘位修正"},{"start":2089.02,"end":2092.02,"text":"領域需進一等提案"},{"start":2092.02,"end":2094.02,"text":"第一項中斷"},{"start":2094.02,"end":2096.02,"text":"第一項中斷"},{"start":2096.02,"end":2098.02,"text":"第一項居所增進學校資格"},{"start":2098.02,"end":2100.02,"text":"好"},{"start":2100.02,"end":2105.02,"text":"現在我們進行偏遠地區學校教育發展條例部分條文的相關修正草案"},{"start":2105.02,"end":2107.02,"text":"逐條審查"},{"start":2107.02,"end":2110.02,"text":"第四條條文修正有委員郭育晴等18人"},{"start":2110.02,"end":2112.02,"text":"委員徐欣瑩等16人"},{"start":2112.02,"end":2114.02,"text":"委員葛如君等19人"},{"start":2114.02,"end":2116.02,"text":"及委員陳培宇等16人"},{"start":2116.02,"end":2118.02,"text":"等4個提案"},{"start":2118.02,"end":2122.02,"text":"請問提案委員"},{"start":2122.02,"end":2126.02,"text":"請問提案委員或在場委員有沒有要補充說明"},{"start":2126.02,"end":2128.02,"text":"好"},{"start":2128.02,"end":2130.02,"text":"來 葛如君等19人"},{"start":2130.02,"end":2132.02,"text":"第一項中斷"},{"start":2132.02,"end":2134.02,"text":"第一項居所增進學校資格"},{"start":2134.02,"end":2136.02,"text":"各校教師評審委員"},{"start":2136.02,"end":2138.02,"text":"會後決定"},{"start":2138.02,"end":2140.02,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2140.02,"end":2142.02,"text":"沒有 因為我們"},{"start":2142.02,"end":2144.02,"text":"當然剛剛民進黨的委員"},{"start":2144.02,"end":2146.02,"text":"有跟我們反應說"},{"start":2146.02,"end":2148.02,"text":"因為今天好像時間問題"},{"start":2148.02,"end":2150.02,"text":"然後希望好像3點還幾點結束"},{"start":2150.02,"end":2152.02,"text":"那因為那個校戶"},{"start":2152.02,"end":2154.02,"text":"好像那一題好像在21嘛"},{"start":2154.02,"end":2156.02,"text":"那不知道能不能在3點前完成"},{"start":2156.02,"end":2158.02,"text":"那培育委員好像提到說"},{"start":2158.02,"end":2160.02,"text":"他下個會期會幫我們"},{"start":2160.02,"end":2162.02,"text":"加速火力啦"},{"start":2162.02,"end":2164.02,"text":"只是說因為我的那個信箱"},{"start":2164.02,"end":2166.02,"text":"昨天被校戶灌爆"},{"start":2166.02,"end":2168.02,"text":"想說是不是可以那個"},{"start":2168.02,"end":2170.02,"text":"快車開一下快車怎樣"},{"start":2170.02,"end":2172.02,"text":"我們啊春筹姐來了"},{"start":2172.02,"end":2174.02,"text":"我想說春筹姐也是這樣想"},{"start":2174.02,"end":2176.02,"text":"不知道因為剛剛只是我"},{"start":2176.02,"end":2178.02,"text":"片面想說"},{"start":2178.02,"end":2180.02,"text":"給個給個給個時間上的彈性啦"},{"start":2180.02,"end":2182.02,"text":"但是現在我們"},{"start":2182.02,"end":2184.02,"text":"兩個在這邊就想說"},{"start":2184.02,"end":2186.02,"text":"再爭取一下"},{"start":2186.02,"end":2188.02,"text":"我們2121"},{"start":2188.02,"end":2190.02,"text":"好好謝謝謝謝謝謝"},{"start":2190.02,"end":2192.02,"text":"那個"},{"start":2192.02,"end":2194.02,"text":"早委早委"},{"start":2194.02,"end":2196.02,"text":"那個3點之前如果可以啦"},{"start":2196.02,"end":2198.02,"text":"加個快車這樣子"},{"start":2198.02,"end":2200.02,"text":"好我們就"},{"start":2200.02,"end":2202.02,"text":"就就就順順的走好不好"},{"start":2202.02,"end":2204.02,"text":"好好好好OK謝謝不好意思"},{"start":2204.02,"end":2206.02,"text":"出"},{"start":2206.02,"end":2208.02,"text":"我們順順的走"},{"start":2208.02,"end":2210.02,"text":"好好謝謝早委謝謝"},{"start":2210.02,"end":2212.02,"text":"謝謝秋日委員謝謝"},{"start":2212.02,"end":2214.02,"text":"好"},{"start":2214.02,"end":2216.02,"text":"好"},{"start":2216.02,"end":2218.02,"text":"那第四條的部分"},{"start":2218.02,"end":2220.02,"text":"來"},{"start":2220.02,"end":2222.02,"text":"大家好陳培育委員"},{"start":2222.02,"end":2224.02,"text":"郭育芹委員"},{"start":2224.02,"end":2226.02,"text":"好來郭育芹委員先"},{"start":2230.02,"end":2232.02,"text":"好"},{"start":2232.02,"end":2234.02,"text":"第"},{"start":2234.02,"end":2236.02,"text":"好"},{"start":2236.02,"end":2238.02,"text":"第四條的部分"},{"start":2238.02,"end":2240.02,"text":"那我想還是說明一下就是過去其實"},{"start":2240.02,"end":2242.02,"text":"我們對偏遠學校的一個定義"},{"start":2242.02,"end":2244.02,"text":"其實往往會比較單一"},{"start":2244.02,"end":2246.02,"text":"同時是靜態的這個地理的條件"},{"start":2246.02,"end":2248.02,"text":"的一個這樣子的一個定義"},{"start":2248.02,"end":2250.02,"text":"但是其實在第一現場"},{"start":2250.02,"end":2252.02,"text":"其實我們看到有一些學校他雖然"},{"start":2252.02,"end":2254.02,"text":"地理距離其實不算是"},{"start":2254.02,"end":2256.02,"text":"最遠但是卻"},{"start":2256.02,"end":2258.02,"text":"面對這個極高的人口流失"},{"start":2258.02,"end":2260.02,"text":"還有失思流動的這樣子"},{"start":2260.02,"end":2262.02,"text":"的一個狀況其實這個比例是"},{"start":2262.02,"end":2264.02,"text":"高的還有家庭支持的一個功能"},{"start":2264.02,"end":2266.02,"text":"也變得比較薄弱這樣子"},{"start":2266.02,"end":2268.02,"text":"的一個困境那相反的"},{"start":2268.02,"end":2270.02,"text":"有一些學校的條件其實已經趨於"},{"start":2270.02,"end":2272.02,"text":"穩定但是卻比較"},{"start":2272.02,"end":2274.02,"text":"缺乏的是動態檢討"},{"start":2274.02,"end":2276.02,"text":"跟長期的這個他"},{"start":2276.02,"end":2278.02,"text":"所佔有的一個資源"},{"start":2278.02,"end":2280.02,"text":"我的版本其實有特別提到"},{"start":2280.02,"end":2282.02,"text":"這三個部分那包含"},{"start":2282.02,"end":2284.02,"text":"第一個部分是引入動態的一個"},{"start":2284.02,"end":2286.02,"text":"指標將失思的流動"},{"start":2286.02,"end":2288.02,"text":"率還有人口就是"},{"start":2288.02,"end":2290.02,"text":"包含這個學生的人數的一個"},{"start":2290.02,"end":2292.02,"text":"另外還有這個家庭支持的一個程度"},{"start":2292.02,"end":2294.02,"text":"是不是可以納入考量"},{"start":2294.02,"end":2296.02,"text":"來貼近這個實質上"},{"start":2296.02,"end":2298.02,"text":"實務上的一些困境"},{"start":2298.02,"end":2300.02,"text":"那第二個部分是想要擴大"},{"start":2300.02,"end":2302.02,"text":"這個民主參與的部分"},{"start":2302.02,"end":2304.02,"text":"那納入包含校長"},{"start":2304.02,"end":2306.02,"text":"教師或專家學者甚至是"},{"start":2306.02,"end":2308.02,"text":"學生代表跟民間團體"},{"start":2308.02,"end":2310.02,"text":"讓標準可以更具現場"},{"start":2310.02,"end":2312.02,"text":"的一個代表性第三個"},{"start":2312.02,"end":2314.02,"text":"部分就是我的版本是希望"},{"start":2314.02,"end":2316.02,"text":"能夠縮短這個檢討的一個"},{"start":2316.02,"end":2318.02,"text":"週期從原本的三年"},{"start":2318.02,"end":2320.02,"text":"改為每兩年來定期的"},{"start":2320.02,"end":2322.02,"text":"檢討喔"},{"start":2322.02,"end":2324.02,"text":"那以上如果教育部這邊有"},{"start":2324.02,"end":2326.02,"text":"其他的一個說明或其他的考量"},{"start":2326.02,"end":2328.02,"text":"等一下再請教育部回應喔"},{"start":2328.02,"end":2330.02,"text":"好"},{"start":2332.02,"end":2334.02,"text":"請羅照偉"},{"start":2334.02,"end":2336.02,"text":"不好意思我想了解一下"},{"start":2336.02,"end":2338.02,"text":"因為剛剛在詢答的過程中"},{"start":2338.02,"end":2340.02,"text":"我也很清楚的想要詢問說"},{"start":2340.02,"end":2342.02,"text":"現在沒有院版"},{"start":2342.02,"end":2344.02,"text":"只有建議版"},{"start":2344.02,"end":2346.02,"text":"那"},{"start":2346.02,"end":2348.02,"text":"可以先請"},{"start":2348.02,"end":2350.02,"text":"政次先回答一下"},{"start":2352.02,"end":2354.02,"text":"你們對於現在的這個狀況"},{"start":2354.02,"end":2356.02,"text":"到底是不是能夠"},{"start":2356.02,"end":2358.02,"text":"支持認同然後並且"},{"start":2358.02,"end":2360.02,"text":"你們認同哪幾條可以先"},{"start":2360.02,"end":2362.02,"text":"講一下嗎因為我看不出你們"},{"start":2362.02,"end":2364.02,"text":"到底是不是要支持這一次的"},{"start":2364.02,"end":2366.02,"text":"修法那我們要怎麼繼續修下去"},{"start":2366.02,"end":2368.02,"text":"陳北宇委員"},{"start":2368.02,"end":2370.02,"text":"好政次發言請我先確認"},{"start":2370.02,"end":2372.02,"text":"一下就是剛剛羅廷偉委員"},{"start":2372.02,"end":2374.02,"text":"問有沒有不版"},{"start":2374.02,"end":2376.02,"text":"或是院版"},{"start":2376.02,"end":2378.02,"text":"那因為其實這一次修法這麼多委員"},{"start":2378.02,"end":2380.02,"text":"有提版本喔我的見解是"},{"start":2380.02,"end":2382.02,"text":"這樣啦大家聽聽看就是這麼多委員"},{"start":2382.02,"end":2384.02,"text":"在像從也許從"},{"start":2384.02,"end":2386.02,"text":"兩三屆以前然後一直延伸到這一屆"},{"start":2386.02,"end":2388.02,"text":"那也因為偏鄉的失資"},{"start":2388.02,"end":2390.02,"text":"的問題啊學生學歷表現"},{"start":2390.02,"end":2392.02,"text":"的問題大家對偏鄉的議題都有感"},{"start":2392.02,"end":2394.02,"text":"那所以很感謝召委"},{"start":2394.02,"end":2396.02,"text":"吳立華就先排了那我認為"},{"start":2396.02,"end":2398.02,"text":"每一條的版本"},{"start":2398.02,"end":2400.02,"text":"每一個版本裡面的每一條大家所"},{"start":2400.02,"end":2402.02,"text":"主張的資源跟法規"},{"start":2402.02,"end":2404.02,"text":"跟政策弱點不會一樣我覺得教育部"},{"start":2404.02,"end":2406.02,"text":"應該很難具體的說"},{"start":2406.02,"end":2408.02,"text":"例如說你對柯志恩"},{"start":2408.02,"end":2410.02,"text":"版魯明哲版馬文君"},{"start":2410.02,"end":2412.02,"text":"版盧憲英版這麼多委員"},{"start":2412.02,"end":2414.02,"text":"三十幾個委員的版本一條一條"},{"start":2414.02,"end":2416.02,"text":"表態是不是我們我的建議啦"},{"start":2416.02,"end":2418.02,"text":"當然等一下讓次長回我的建議是不是"},{"start":2418.02,"end":2420.02,"text":"我們就一條一條走然後有列出來的版本"},{"start":2420.02,"end":2422.02,"text":"有來發言的委員讓他發言"},{"start":2422.02,"end":2424.02,"text":"然後有共識的就過啊沒有共識的"},{"start":2424.02,"end":2426.02,"text":"就保留我的建議是這樣"},{"start":2426.02,"end":2428.02,"text":"我是認為"},{"start":2428.02,"end":2430.02,"text":"培育委員講的沒有問題啦"},{"start":2430.02,"end":2432.02,"text":"也不用表態"},{"start":2432.02,"end":2434.02,"text":"只是想要先大概知道因為沒有院版的情況之下"},{"start":2434.02,"end":2436.02,"text":"是你們是不支持"},{"start":2436.02,"end":2438.02,"text":"修法嗎還是怎麼樣可不可以先講"},{"start":2438.02,"end":2440.02,"text":"講清楚一下好我們有"},{"start":2440.02,"end":2442.02,"text":"總共三十九個版本"},{"start":2442.02,"end":2444.02,"text":"請教育部先做回應我們尊重委員"},{"start":2444.02,"end":2446.02,"text":"提案修法的這個"},{"start":2446.02,"end":2448.02,"text":"權利啦那當然提案之後"},{"start":2448.02,"end":2450.02,"text":"我們夜館單位大概"},{"start":2450.02,"end":2452.02,"text":"討論過那有些"},{"start":2452.02,"end":2454.02,"text":"意識接近或者說"},{"start":2454.02,"end":2456.02,"text":"很多委員都有各種不同的版本"},{"start":2456.02,"end":2458.02,"text":"我們也有一些想法如果在討論"},{"start":2458.02,"end":2460.02,"text":"當中能夠有共識的話"},{"start":2460.02,"end":2462.02,"text":"這部分我們會支持"},{"start":2462.02,"end":2464.02,"text":"那那個譬如說這個二十幾條"},{"start":2464.02,"end":2466.02,"text":"裡面如果說我們"},{"start":2466.02,"end":2468.02,"text":"審查過了有七條五條"},{"start":2468.02,"end":2470.02,"text":"或三條四條可以先有共識"},{"start":2470.02,"end":2472.02,"text":"那我們就先出委員會"},{"start":2472.02,"end":2474.02,"text":"那其他可以留著繼續討論喔"},{"start":2474.02,"end":2476.02,"text":"我想不是說有的沒有"},{"start":2476.02,"end":2478.02,"text":"共識是因為可能還"},{"start":2478.02,"end":2480.02,"text":"還在研議說"},{"start":2480.02,"end":2482.02,"text":"提議的那個版本裡面的"},{"start":2482.02,"end":2484.02,"text":"那個利害得失啊"},{"start":2484.02,"end":2486.02,"text":"還需要溝通的地方那有共識的話"},{"start":2486.02,"end":2488.02,"text":"我們基本上教育部會支持"},{"start":2488.02,"end":2490.02,"text":"好請說"},{"start":2490.02,"end":2492.02,"text":"不好意思我無意刁難啦"},{"start":2492.02,"end":2494.02,"text":"我先釐清一下因為程序的問題"},{"start":2494.02,"end":2496.02,"text":"剛剛是"},{"start":2496.02,"end":2498.02,"text":"正是您第一次發言是嗎"},{"start":2498.02,"end":2500.02,"text":"對吧"},{"start":2500.02,"end":2502.02,"text":"不好意思您怎麼沒有回到"},{"start":2502.02,"end":2504.02,"text":"講台上講話"},{"start":2504.02,"end":2506.02,"text":"您為什麼坐在這裡發言"},{"start":2506.02,"end":2508.02,"text":"喔 主條就可以坐在這邊"},{"start":2508.02,"end":2510.02,"text":"我先釐清一下是這樣嗎"},{"start":2510.02,"end":2512.02,"text":"因為我們剛才已經進入到第四條了"},{"start":2512.02,"end":2514.02,"text":"然後我們就"},{"start":2514.02,"end":2516.02,"text":"插入那個程序發言"},{"start":2516.02,"end":2518.02,"text":"OK我確認一下因為就是進入"},{"start":2518.02,"end":2520.02,"text":"主條可以到協商桌坐著"},{"start":2520.02,"end":2522.02,"text":"大家討論"},{"start":2522.02,"end":2524.02,"text":"倒也不是吧我覺得應該是說"},{"start":2524.02,"end":2526.02,"text":"我們已經開始了"},{"start":2526.02,"end":2528.02,"text":"我們說剛才有講請大家"},{"start":2528.02,"end":2530.02,"text":"回到協商桌"},{"start":2530.02,"end":2532.02,"text":"好那我上次在電競法"},{"start":2532.02,"end":2534.02,"text":"修法的時候也是請大家"},{"start":2534.02,"end":2536.02,"text":"回到協商桌"},{"start":2536.02,"end":2538.02,"text":"那沒關係我今天釐清一下"},{"start":2538.02,"end":2540.02,"text":"無意刁難把這個程序狀況"},{"start":2540.02,"end":2542.02,"text":"釐清清楚避免有所誤差"},{"start":2542.02,"end":2544.02,"text":"導致大家的誤會"},{"start":2544.02,"end":2546.02,"text":"那以上今天看起來狀況"},{"start":2546.02,"end":2548.02,"text":"是跟我類似那基本上都一樣"},{"start":2548.02,"end":2550.02,"text":"那我釐清了謝謝你謝謝"},{"start":2550.02,"end":2552.02,"text":"我們可以進入主條了"},{"start":2552.02,"end":2554.02,"text":"好謝謝那剛才教育部已經有做出"},{"start":2554.02,"end":2556.02,"text":"回應就是他們的態度就是"},{"start":2556.02,"end":2558.02,"text":"如果有共識的"},{"start":2558.02,"end":2560.02,"text":"可以先送出委員會"},{"start":2560.02,"end":2562.02,"text":"那沒有共識的"},{"start":2562.02,"end":2564.02,"text":"可以保留或者是"},{"start":2564.02,"end":2566.02,"text":"陳培宇委員剛才也有提到"},{"start":2566.02,"end":2568.02,"text":"他下個會期擔任召委"},{"start":2568.02,"end":2570.02,"text":"會繼續的來排審"},{"start":2570.02,"end":2572.02,"text":"好那第四條"},{"start":2572.02,"end":2574.02,"text":"我們回到第四條剛才有過"},{"start":2574.02,"end":2576.02,"text":"疫情委員發言過還有沒有"},{"start":2576.02,"end":2578.02,"text":"來陳培宇委員好第四條其實"},{"start":2578.02,"end":2580.02,"text":"我們主要是要談偏遠學校"},{"start":2580.02,"end":2582.02,"text":"的認定啦回顧這個修法"},{"start":2582.02,"end":2584.02,"text":"其實最早的時候是為了我們協助"},{"start":2584.02,"end":2586.02,"text":"照顧偏遠地區"},{"start":2586.02,"end":2588.02,"text":"學校的很多權益福利"},{"start":2588.02,"end":2590.02,"text":"設備設施所以我覺得立了這個"},{"start":2590.02,"end":2592.02,"text":"專法非常非常重要那當年"},{"start":2592.02,"end":2594.02,"text":"我們其實也做了教育部應該也做了一件事情"},{"start":2594.02,"end":2596.02,"text":"就是當有偏遠學校之後"},{"start":2596.02,"end":2598.02,"text":"然後還有都會地區的學校"},{"start":2598.02,"end":2600.02,"text":"可是中間有一大部分"},{"start":2600.02,"end":2602.02,"text":"後來被教育部定義為所謂非山非市"},{"start":2602.02,"end":2604.02,"text":"那大家應該很常聽到"},{"start":2604.02,"end":2606.02,"text":"這四個字非山非市的學校"},{"start":2606.02,"end":2608.02,"text":"可是非山非市的學校在這幾年遇到"},{"start":2608.02,"end":2610.02,"text":"一個很大的困境喔"},{"start":2610.02,"end":2612.02,"text":"它當然跟縣市政府還有中央政府"},{"start":2612.02,"end":2614.02,"text":"的討論劃分有關"},{"start":2614.02,"end":2616.02,"text":"可是一旦學校被劃為"},{"start":2616.02,"end":2618.02,"text":"非山非市之後當然"},{"start":2618.02,"end":2620.02,"text":"教育部每年都還是有給予相關"},{"start":2620.02,"end":2622.02,"text":"補助這是我是清楚的"},{"start":2622.02,"end":2624.02,"text":"但是它的補助絕對比不上偏鄉"},{"start":2624.02,"end":2626.02,"text":"學校第二個當學校"},{"start":2626.02,"end":2628.02,"text":"在像企業募款或是像社區"},{"start":2628.02,"end":2630.02,"text":"做很多資源喊話的時候"},{"start":2630.02,"end":2632.02,"text":"很多人就會說啊你是非山非市"},{"start":2632.02,"end":2634.02,"text":"你又不是偏遠這樣所以過去幾年"},{"start":2634.02,"end":2636.02,"text":"我們在捐款也好我們在送書啦"},{"start":2636.02,"end":2638.02,"text":"協助改善硬體設備"},{"start":2638.02,"end":2640.02,"text":"非山非市的學校基本上是被很多人"},{"start":2640.02,"end":2642.02,"text":"列為它不是最優先的學校"},{"start":2642.02,"end":2644.02,"text":"可是問題來了其實"},{"start":2644.02,"end":2646.02,"text":"很多非山非市的學校的困境"},{"start":2646.02,"end":2648.02,"text":"不見得比偏鄉"},{"start":2648.02,"end":2650.02,"text":"來的少那也因為偏鄉"},{"start":2650.02,"end":2652.02,"text":"在過去幾年民間企業的協助啦"},{"start":2652.02,"end":2654.02,"text":"然後有心人士的贊助啦"},{"start":2654.02,"end":2656.02,"text":"教育部的資源啦地方政府的"},{"start":2656.02,"end":2658.02,"text":"義助啦反而讓偏鄉學校"},{"start":2658.02,"end":2660.02,"text":"確實在很多硬體設備的改善"},{"start":2660.02,"end":2662.02,"text":"越來越好但非山非市"},{"start":2662.02,"end":2664.02,"text":"依然卡在這個困境當中"},{"start":2664.02,"end":2666.02,"text":"我如果要提出非山非市的"},{"start":2666.02,"end":2668.02,"text":"修法就會變成整個名字"},{"start":2668.02,"end":2670.02,"text":"都要改這不是我今天覺得"},{"start":2670.02,"end":2672.02,"text":"可以做到的事情但我還是"},{"start":2672.02,"end":2674.02,"text":"要在今天的發言當中提出"},{"start":2674.02,"end":2676.02,"text":"我已經也跟教育部拜託未來"},{"start":2676.02,"end":2678.02,"text":"我們如何在非山非市的困境"},{"start":2678.02,"end":2680.02,"text":"這個議題中開始想辦法"},{"start":2680.02,"end":2682.02,"text":"從資源面預算面跟地方"},{"start":2682.02,"end":2684.02,"text":"政府合作的面向來協助"},{"start":2684.02,"end":2686.02,"text":"非山非市解決失資的問題"},{"start":2686.02,"end":2688.02,"text":"也好設備的問題也好"},{"start":2688.02,"end":2690.02,"text":"資源困境的問題也好這些問題"},{"start":2690.02,"end":2692.02,"text":"非常非常重要那我也不確定"},{"start":2692.02,"end":2694.02,"text":"有沒有機會透過附帶決議的方法"},{"start":2694.02,"end":2696.02,"text":"在今天"},{"start":2696.02,"end":2698.02,"text":"修法的時候拜託教育部把"},{"start":2698.02,"end":2700.02,"text":"非山非市的困境"},{"start":2700.02,"end":2702.02,"text":"那我也要開始研究的"},{"start":2702.02,"end":2704.02,"text":"重點方向或是政策的研議方向"},{"start":2704.02,"end":2706.02,"text":"那我認為非山非市"},{"start":2706.02,"end":2708.02,"text":"的學校跟老師還有家長看到"},{"start":2708.02,"end":2710.02,"text":"今天這樣的討論會非常"},{"start":2710.02,"end":2712.02,"text":"覺得受到照顧啦因為過去"},{"start":2712.02,"end":2714.02,"text":"偏鄉也好都市也好他們各自面臨"},{"start":2714.02,"end":2716.02,"text":"不同的困境可是非山非市的困境"},{"start":2716.02,"end":2718.02,"text":"真的在屢次的討論當中"},{"start":2718.02,"end":2720.02,"text":"都沒有機會被看見"},{"start":2720.02,"end":2722.02,"text":"另外剛剛郭育芹委員有提到的"},{"start":2722.02,"end":2724.02,"text":"新增加校長代表教師代表"},{"start":2724.02,"end":2726.02,"text":"的部分我的版本是寫在第三項"},{"start":2726.02,"end":2728.02,"text":"希望有更多的民意參與"},{"start":2728.02,"end":2730.02,"text":"那接下來我的版本有加了"},{"start":2730.02,"end":2732.02,"text":"一個第二項就是考量其他"},{"start":2732.02,"end":2734.02,"text":"因素考量學生人數這個部分"},{"start":2734.02,"end":2736.02,"text":"也想聽聽看教育部的意見"},{"start":2736.02,"end":2738.02,"text":"還有增加三年檢討一次改成"},{"start":2738.02,"end":2740.02,"text":"兩年檢討一次以上"},{"start":2740.02,"end":2742.02,"text":"但我這一條我最大的"},{"start":2742.02,"end":2744.02,"text":"concern是對於非山非市的"},{"start":2744.02,"end":2746.02,"text":"關心希望納入教育部的"},{"start":2746.02,"end":2748.02,"text":"政策關懷好以上"},{"start":2748.02,"end":2750.02,"text":"有請郭育芹委員"},{"start":2750.02,"end":2752.02,"text":"好謝謝昭偉排審"},{"start":2752.02,"end":2754.02,"text":"那在第四條這個偏遠地區"},{"start":2754.02,"end":2756.02,"text":"學校的定義跟分級"},{"start":2756.02,"end":2758.02,"text":"我想我們還是要提到最近"},{"start":2758.02,"end":2760.02,"text":"很紅的一句話君子"},{"start":2760.02,"end":2762.02,"text":"物本本利而道身"},{"start":2762.02,"end":2764.02,"text":"所以我們的偏鄉地區"},{"start":2764.02,"end":2766.02,"text":"的本到底是什麼"},{"start":2766.02,"end":2768.02,"text":"那在本席的提案版本裡面"},{"start":2768.02,"end":2770.02,"text":"第四條的第二項"},{"start":2770.02,"end":2772.02,"text":"有將偏遠地區的學校"},{"start":2772.02,"end":2774.02,"text":"所考量的其他因素納入"},{"start":2774.02,"end":2776.02,"text":"學生人數親職參與程度"},{"start":2776.02,"end":2778.02,"text":"教師流動率"},{"start":2778.02,"end":2780.02,"text":"當地的社會經濟文化背景"},{"start":2780.02,"end":2782.02,"text":"交通公共建設的"},{"start":2782.02,"end":2784.02,"text":"不見情況以及其他族"},{"start":2784.02,"end":2786.02,"text":"影響學校教學條件的"},{"start":2786.02,"end":2788.02,"text":"因素那相較於其他"},{"start":2788.02,"end":2790.02,"text":"委員的版本大部分"},{"start":2790.02,"end":2792.02,"text":"是納入一個所謂"},{"start":2792.02,"end":2794.02,"text":"家庭支持的這四個字"},{"start":2794.02,"end":2796.02,"text":"那本席提出的版本"},{"start":2796.02,"end":2798.02,"text":"則是更先進的"},{"start":2798.02,"end":2800.02,"text":"跟上了國際的定義的趨勢"},{"start":2800.02,"end":2802.02,"text":"是強調親職參與程度"},{"start":2802.02,"end":2804.02,"text":"parental involvement"},{"start":2804.02,"end":2806.02,"text":"去納入偏遠地區學校的考量因素"},{"start":2806.02,"end":2808.02,"text":"那我先解釋一下"},{"start":2808.02,"end":2810.02,"text":"這個parental involvement"},{"start":2810.02,"end":2812.02,"text":"其實跟這個"},{"start":2812.02,"end":2814.02,"text":"我們提到的家庭支持"},{"start":2814.02,"end":2816.02,"text":"在定義上有很明確"},{"start":2816.02,"end":2818.02,"text":"而且很大的不同"},{"start":2818.02,"end":2820.02,"text":"目前parental involvement"},{"start":2820.02,"end":2822.02,"text":"在學界是很有共識的"},{"start":2822.02,"end":2824.02,"text":"他是一個多面向的概念"},{"start":2824.02,"end":2826.02,"text":"那最成熟"},{"start":2826.02,"end":2828.02,"text":"引用最多的定義"},{"start":2828.02,"end":2830.02,"text":"在這個期刊裡面"},{"start":2830.02,"end":2832.02,"text":"父子參與親子教育的這個"},{"start":2832.02,"end":2834.02,"text":"研究的這個傳統"},{"start":2834.02,"end":2836.02,"text":"2025年"},{"start":2836.02,"end":2838.02,"text":"majoring parental school involvement"},{"start":2838.02,"end":2840.02,"text":"a systematic review"},{"start":2840.02,"end":2842.02,"text":"的這個期刊的文章裡面"},{"start":2842.02,"end":2844.02,"text":"重整了2000年到2024年"},{"start":2844.02,"end":2846.02,"text":"之間的38篇研究"},{"start":2846.02,"end":2848.02,"text":"43種"},{"start":2848.02,"end":2850.02,"text":"親職參與測量的工具"},{"start":2850.02,"end":2852.02,"text":"把parental school involvement"},{"start":2852.02,"end":2854.02,"text":"psi或者pi"},{"start":2854.02,"end":2856.02,"text":"概括為"},{"start":2856.02,"end":2858.02,"text":"父母對其子女"},{"start":2858.02,"end":2860.02,"text":"教育歷程與教育"},{"start":2860.02,"end":2862.02,"text":"經驗的參與"},{"start":2862.02,"end":2864.02,"text":"那這個作者還有裡面提到的非常多的人"},{"start":2864.02,"end":2866.02,"text":"都是這個相關理論"},{"start":2866.02,"end":2868.02,"text":"非常重要的"},{"start":2868.02,"end":2870.02,"text":"研究跟專家"},{"start":2870.02,"end":2872.02,"text":"這樣的一個說法"},{"start":2872.02,"end":2874.02,"text":"我們講的"},{"start":2874.02,"end":2876.02,"text":"親職參與程度"},{"start":2876.02,"end":2878.02,"text":"或親職參與度"},{"start":2878.02,"end":2880.02,"text":"親職參與度"},{"start":2880.02,"end":2882.02,"text":"其實就是國際教育研究裡面"},{"start":2882.02,"end":2884.02,"text":"最常被引用的"},{"start":2884.02,"end":2886.02,"text":"那同時這個架構也非常的清楚"},{"start":2886.02,"end":2888.02,"text":"它核心不是只是把"},{"start":2888.02,"end":2890.02,"text":"親職參與單純理解為"},{"start":2890.02,"end":2892.02,"text":"父母陪伴孩子"},{"start":2892.02,"end":2894.02,"text":"多少的時間而已"},{"start":2894.02,"end":2896.02,"text":"而是把參與度分成"},{"start":2896.02,"end":2898.02,"text":"有利兒童學習發展的"},{"start":2898.02,"end":2900.02,"text":"家庭環境 parenting"},{"start":2900.02,"end":2902.02,"text":"有communicating"},{"start":2902.02,"end":2904.02,"text":"家庭與學校的雙向溝通"},{"start":2904.02,"end":2906.02,"text":"有volunteering"},{"start":2906.02,"end":2908.02,"text":"有learning at home"},{"start":2908.02,"end":2910.02,"text":"在家庭支持孩子的學習"},{"start":2910.02,"end":2912.02,"text":"有decision making"},{"start":2912.02,"end":2914.02,"text":"參與學校的決策"},{"start":2914.02,"end":2916.02,"text":"有collaborating with community"},{"start":2916.02,"end":2918.02,"text":"結合社區的資源來支持兒童"},{"start":2918.02,"end":2920.02,"text":"有非常明確的六個面向"},{"start":2920.02,"end":2922.02,"text":"也有明確的測量指標"},{"start":2922.02,"end":2924.02,"text":"這個指標不只是直化"},{"start":2924.02,"end":2926.02,"text":"也可以量化的"},{"start":2926.02,"end":2928.02,"text":"那本席也就因此"},{"start":2928.02,"end":2930.02,"text":"在這邊我說的稍微長一點點"},{"start":2930.02,"end":2932.02,"text":"是因為"},{"start":2932.02,"end":2934.02,"text":"我們希望能夠具體的在公報記錄上"},{"start":2934.02,"end":2936.02,"text":"留下來提供給教育部作為參考"},{"start":2936.02,"end":2938.02,"text":"因為本席閱讀了"},{"start":2938.02,"end":2940.02,"text":"這個相關的文件以後"},{"start":2940.02,"end":2942.02,"text":"認為親職參與程度"},{"start":2942.02,"end":2944.02,"text":"在本法的第四條"},{"start":2944.02,"end":2946.02,"text":"會相比家庭支持較為"},{"start":2946.02,"end":2948.02,"text":"合適我剛剛講的是親職"},{"start":2948.02,"end":2950.02,"text":"參與度的清晰度"},{"start":2950.02,"end":2952.02,"text":"的成分我現在要來說明"},{"start":2952.02,"end":2954.02,"text":"家庭支持的模糊的程度"},{"start":2954.02,"end":2956.02,"text":"跟他不一定適用在"},{"start":2956.02,"end":2958.02,"text":"偏鄉的定義上"},{"start":2958.02,"end":2960.02,"text":"第一家庭支持的這四個字"},{"start":2960.02,"end":2962.02,"text":"目前在各法當中的"},{"start":2962.02,"end":2964.02,"text":"定義落差很大"},{"start":2964.02,"end":2966.02,"text":"那我們的法明確性原則"},{"start":2966.02,"end":2968.02,"text":"在偏鄉教育這裡可能就會混淆了"},{"start":2968.02,"end":2970.02,"text":"我們舉個例子"},{"start":2970.02,"end":2972.02,"text":"兒少犬法第31條"},{"start":2972.02,"end":2974.02,"text":"政府因建立六歲以下"},{"start":2974.02,"end":2976.02,"text":"兒童發展之評估機制"},{"start":2976.02,"end":2978.02,"text":"等等等等等等"},{"start":2978.02,"end":2980.02,"text":"給予早期療癒醫療救學及"},{"start":2980.02,"end":2982.02,"text":"家庭支持方面之特殊照顧"},{"start":2982.02,"end":2984.02,"text":"這裡的家庭支持"},{"start":2984.02,"end":2986.02,"text":"可能又跟我們偏鄉教育的第四條"},{"start":2986.02,"end":2988.02,"text":"第二項"},{"start":2988.02,"end":2990.02,"text":"提到的家庭支持好像不太一樣"},{"start":2990.02,"end":2992.02,"text":"再來性侵害犯罪防治法第38條"},{"start":2992.02,"end":2994.02,"text":"也有提到直轄市"},{"start":2994.02,"end":2996.02,"text":"縣市主管機關與受到通知後"},{"start":2996.02,"end":2998.02,"text":"等等等等"},{"start":2998.02,"end":3000.02,"text":"這個安排強制治療"},{"start":3000.02,"end":3002.02,"text":"受處分人身心治療"},{"start":3002.02,"end":3004.02,"text":"輔導或教育及登記"},{"start":3004.02,"end":3006.02,"text":"報到市議並提供"},{"start":3006.02,"end":3008.02,"text":"救學就業"},{"start":3008.02,"end":3010.02,"text":"家庭支持及其他照顧"},{"start":3010.02,"end":3012.02,"text":"服務"},{"start":3012.02,"end":3014.02,"text":"這還只是一個例子"},{"start":3014.02,"end":3016.02,"text":"那顯然在這裡的家庭支持"},{"start":3016.02,"end":3018.02,"text":"跟我們偏鄉的提到的"},{"start":3018.02,"end":3020.02,"text":"其實不一樣的"},{"start":3020.02,"end":3022.02,"text":"我們要界定偏鄉"},{"start":3022.02,"end":3024.02,"text":"其實我們就要界定"},{"start":3024.02,"end":3026.02,"text":"親職的參與度"},{"start":3026.02,"end":3028.02,"text":"我們剛才已經提到親職參與度"},{"start":3028.02,"end":3030.02,"text":"不是只是時間而已"},{"start":3030.02,"end":3032.02,"text":"那其他這個家庭支持的字樣"},{"start":3032.02,"end":3034.02,"text":"在兒童托育服務法"},{"start":3034.02,"end":3036.02,"text":"受刑人外出"},{"start":3036.02,"end":3038.02,"text":"實行辦法"},{"start":3038.02,"end":3040.02,"text":"在勞工職災保險法裡面"},{"start":3040.02,"end":3042.02,"text":"都有出現"},{"start":3042.02,"end":3044.02,"text":"那我們不能講說這個詞已經出現過了"},{"start":3044.02,"end":3046.02,"text":"我們就把它拿過來用"},{"start":3046.02,"end":3048.02,"text":"但是偏鄉教育是重中之重"},{"start":3048.02,"end":3050.02,"text":"我們的定義的方式"},{"start":3050.02,"end":3052.02,"text":"沒有清楚"},{"start":3052.02,"end":3054.02,"text":"這個本就立不了"},{"start":3054.02,"end":3056.02,"text":"本不立而道不深"},{"start":3056.02,"end":3058.02,"text":"那我想我們就希望"},{"start":3058.02,"end":3060.02,"text":"能夠由教育部"},{"start":3060.02,"end":3062.02,"text":"能不能積極的來回應"},{"start":3062.02,"end":3064.02,"text":"我們辦公室的這個非常清晰的意見"},{"start":3064.02,"end":3068.02,"text":"把偏鄉教育的這個部分"},{"start":3068.02,"end":3070.02,"text":"家庭支持的文字"},{"start":3070.02,"end":3072.02,"text":"它其實在國際上面"},{"start":3072.02,"end":3074.02,"text":"以及定義上面"},{"start":3074.02,"end":3076.02,"text":"親職參與程度"},{"start":3076.02,"end":3078.02,"text":"是更好的"},{"start":3078.02,"end":3080.02,"text":"那我再提一件事"},{"start":3080.02,"end":3082.02,"text":"家庭支持如果納入本法"},{"start":3082.02,"end":3084.02,"text":"它核心概念"},{"start":3084.02,"end":3086.02,"text":"就變得更加模糊了"},{"start":3086.02,"end":3088.02,"text":"孩子獲得多少支持要如何定義"},{"start":3088.02,"end":3090.02,"text":"零用錢的多寡嗎"},{"start":3090.02,"end":3092.02,"text":"還是有沒有給他一棟房子"},{"start":3092.02,"end":3094.02,"text":"還是有沒有給他未來帳戶"},{"start":3094.02,"end":3096.02,"text":"股票"},{"start":3096.02,"end":3098.02,"text":"那這個支持也可能來自於"},{"start":3098.02,"end":3100.02,"text":"因為家庭很大嘛"},{"start":3100.02,"end":3102.02,"text":"有父母手足"},{"start":3102.02,"end":3104.02,"text":"那這幾個成員比較有一點像是指"},{"start":3104.02,"end":3106.02,"text":"這個兒少在家庭生活中"},{"start":3106.02,"end":3108.02,"text":"感受到父母主要照顧者"},{"start":3108.02,"end":3110.02,"text":"或其他家庭成員的情緒關懷"},{"start":3110.02,"end":3112.02,"text":"理解接納"},{"start":3112.02,"end":3114.02,"text":"資訊協助"},{"start":3114.02,"end":3116.02,"text":"實質支持問題處理等等"},{"start":3116.02,"end":3118.02,"text":"這和本法"},{"start":3118.02,"end":3120.02,"text":"也就是我們的偏鄉地區"},{"start":3120.02,"end":3122.02,"text":"學校教育發展條例"},{"start":3122.02,"end":3124.02,"text":"所關注的梗概"},{"start":3124.02,"end":3126.02,"text":"其實是有所不同的"},{"start":3126.02,"end":3128.02,"text":"所以在此"},{"start":3128.02,"end":3130.02,"text":"就希望能夠懇請教育部以及各位委員同僚"},{"start":3130.02,"end":3132.02,"text":"研議將本席的版本"},{"start":3132.02,"end":3134.02,"text":"所提出的"},{"start":3134.02,"end":3136.02,"text":"親職參與程度納入"},{"start":3136.02,"end":3138.02,"text":"作為影響偏鄉地區學校"},{"start":3138.02,"end":3140.02,"text":"教學條件的因素之一"},{"start":3140.02,"end":3142.02,"text":"那我們有跟教育部溝通過"},{"start":3142.02,"end":3144.02,"text":"那教育部的意思是說"},{"start":3144.02,"end":3146.02,"text":"有沒有親職參與程度的"},{"start":3146.02,"end":3148.02,"text":"官方測量的資料"},{"start":3148.02,"end":3150.02,"text":"我們剛剛也提出來了"},{"start":3150.02,"end":3152.02,"text":"本席也認為教育部應該針對"},{"start":3152.02,"end":3154.02,"text":"親職參與程度去建立"},{"start":3154.02,"end":3156.02,"text":"屬和我們台灣的"},{"start":3156.02,"end":3158.02,"text":"相關測量指標"},{"start":3158.02,"end":3160.02,"text":"這樣才能跟得上時代"},{"start":3160.02,"end":3162.02,"text":"我們也才能夠更清晰的去"},{"start":3162.02,"end":3164.02,"text":"界定我們的偏鄉"},{"start":3164.02,"end":3166.02,"text":"或偏遠地區學校的"},{"start":3166.02,"end":3168.02,"text":"教育發展我們要如何分類"},{"start":3168.02,"end":3170.02,"text":"作為一個更有公信力"},{"start":3170.02,"end":3172.02,"text":"更跟得上時代的一個標準"},{"start":3172.02,"end":3174.02,"text":"那相關的資料"},{"start":3174.02,"end":3176.02,"text":"我想教育部也應該要持續趕快來做"},{"start":3176.02,"end":3178.02,"text":"針對這一點希望請教育部"},{"start":3178.02,"end":3180.02,"text":"進行研議"},{"start":3180.02,"end":3182.02,"text":"同時我們也實質的要求"},{"start":3182.02,"end":3184.02,"text":"也希望研議將本席版本所提出的"},{"start":3184.02,"end":3186.02,"text":"親職參與程度"},{"start":3186.02,"end":3188.02,"text":"納入這個條"},{"start":3188.02,"end":3190.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3216.02,"end":3218.02,"text":"那首先是定義"},{"start":3218.02,"end":3220.02,"text":"第二個是決定的時候"},{"start":3220.02,"end":3222.02,"text":"能夠擴大參與"},{"start":3222.02,"end":3224.02,"text":"第三個是檢討的"},{"start":3224.02,"end":3226.02,"text":"年限大概都在這"},{"start":3226.02,"end":3228.02,"text":"那當然裴議會有建議"},{"start":3228.02,"end":3230.02,"text":"對於相關的"},{"start":3230.02,"end":3232.02,"text":"非商非市的概念以及"},{"start":3232.02,"end":3234.02,"text":"協助能不能有一個"},{"start":3234.02,"end":3236.02,"text":"類似做法或"},{"start":3236.02,"end":3238.02,"text":"附帶決議以及"},{"start":3238.02,"end":3240.02,"text":"各位議員建議有些"},{"start":3240.02,"end":3242.02,"text":"蠻好的觀念收集的那麼完整"},{"start":3242.02,"end":3244.02,"text":"能不能夠納入研議"},{"start":3244.02,"end":3246.02,"text":"那首先"},{"start":3246.02,"end":3248.02,"text":"現行的第四條講了"},{"start":3248.02,"end":3250.02,"text":"五個面向的指標"},{"start":3250.02,"end":3252.02,"text":"這個五個面向的指標"},{"start":3252.02,"end":3254.02,"text":"在第二項我們就"},{"start":3254.02,"end":3256.02,"text":"依據大院委員"},{"start":3256.02,"end":3258.02,"text":"給我們的指導我們就"},{"start":3258.02,"end":3260.02,"text":"定了一個指法"},{"start":3260.02,"end":3262.02,"text":"這個指法我們"},{"start":3262.02,"end":3264.02,"text":"委託學者專家"},{"start":3264.02,"end":3266.02,"text":"去研議"},{"start":3266.02,"end":3268.02,"text":"最近一次研議出來的是五面向"},{"start":3268.02,"end":3270.02,"text":"十六個指標"},{"start":3270.02,"end":3272.02,"text":"這十六個指標有在"},{"start":3272.02,"end":3274.02,"text":"交通下的四個指標"},{"start":3274.02,"end":3276.02,"text":"有在文化下的四個指標"},{"start":3276.02,"end":3278.02,"text":"生活機能三個指標"},{"start":3278.02,"end":3280.02,"text":"數位環境有兩個指標"},{"start":3280.02,"end":3282.02,"text":"社會經濟條件因素三個指標"},{"start":3282.02,"end":3284.02,"text":"加起來十五個指標"},{"start":3284.02,"end":3286.02,"text":"那這十六個指標"},{"start":3286.02,"end":3288.02,"text":"十六個指標我們看"},{"start":3288.02,"end":3290.02,"text":"首先"},{"start":3290.02,"end":3292.02,"text":"基本上這些指標"},{"start":3292.02,"end":3294.02,"text":"它有穩定性跟現行我們是"},{"start":3294.02,"end":3296.02,"text":"政府機關收集得到的資料"},{"start":3296.02,"end":3298.02,"text":"譬如學校所在"},{"start":3298.02,"end":3300.02,"text":"它的火車站高鐵站"},{"start":3300.02,"end":3302.02,"text":"等等最短的行車距離"},{"start":3302.02,"end":3304.02,"text":"或是"},{"start":3304.02,"end":3306.02,"text":"它是在這個所在"},{"start":3306.02,"end":3308.02,"text":"鄉裡的人口密度"},{"start":3308.02,"end":3310.02,"text":"或是所在鄉"},{"start":3310.02,"end":3312.02,"text":"它的醫療院所的"},{"start":3312.02,"end":3314.02,"text":"數目以及通信"},{"start":3314.02,"end":3316.02,"text":"基地台或是工商"},{"start":3316.02,"end":3318.02,"text":"家屬還有相關的"},{"start":3318.02,"end":3320.02,"text":"平均所得等等總共"},{"start":3320.02,"end":3322.02,"text":"有這些細項各位在"},{"start":3322.02,"end":3324.02,"text":"母法上所看到的是"},{"start":3324.02,"end":3326.02,"text":"五面向而已其實它下面"},{"start":3326.02,"end":3328.02,"text":"還有十六個指指標"},{"start":3328.02,"end":3330.02,"text":"是有一個模型"},{"start":3330.02,"end":3332.02,"text":"那今天各位所提的"},{"start":3332.02,"end":3334.02,"text":"各個建議"},{"start":3334.02,"end":3336.02,"text":"基本上我們未來在研議的時候"},{"start":3336.02,"end":3338.02,"text":"都可以再繼續"},{"start":3338.02,"end":3340.02,"text":"一起跟學界地方政府"},{"start":3340.02,"end":3342.02,"text":"還有學校一起來考慮"},{"start":3342.02,"end":3344.02,"text":"那有幾個概念"},{"start":3344.02,"end":3346.02,"text":"要同時釐清一下"},{"start":3346.02,"end":3348.02,"text":"免得委員覺得說未來"},{"start":3348.02,"end":3350.02,"text":"這些概念現在"},{"start":3350.02,"end":3352.02,"text":"聽我講說有研議怎麼到時候"},{"start":3352.02,"end":3354.02,"text":"有進沒進怎麼"},{"start":3354.02,"end":3356.02,"text":"會有一點差別"},{"start":3356.02,"end":3358.02,"text":"首先提到蠻具體的"},{"start":3358.02,"end":3360.02,"text":"有學生人口老師流動率"},{"start":3360.02,"end":3362.02,"text":"跟家庭是支持"},{"start":3362.02,"end":3364.02,"text":"或是parental environment"},{"start":3364.02,"end":3366.02,"text":"這一些概念"},{"start":3366.02,"end":3368.02,"text":"大概三個概念一個是學生人口"},{"start":3368.02,"end":3370.02,"text":"一個是教師流動"},{"start":3370.02,"end":3372.02,"text":"前面這兩個"},{"start":3372.02,"end":3374.02,"text":"我們可以看到"},{"start":3374.02,"end":3376.02,"text":"在現行如果我們把"},{"start":3376.02,"end":3378.02,"text":"這兩個指標放在"},{"start":3378.02,"end":3380.02,"text":"我們認為的"},{"start":3380.02,"end":3382.02,"text":"即便是現在"},{"start":3382.02,"end":3384.02,"text":"非偏鄉的"},{"start":3384.02,"end":3386.02,"text":"它有很多師資的流動"},{"start":3386.02,"end":3388.02,"text":"譬如說台北市"},{"start":3390.02,"end":3392.02,"text":"都會地區內"},{"start":3392.02,"end":3394.02,"text":"有一些學校甚至有報導出來"},{"start":3394.02,"end":3396.02,"text":"不知道各位在直觀上"},{"start":3396.02,"end":3398.02,"text":"在採認這個指標的時候"},{"start":3398.02,"end":3400.02,"text":"這個指標"},{"start":3400.02,"end":3402.02,"text":"那如果納為這個都會的"},{"start":3402.02,"end":3404.02,"text":"它地理啦交通啦"},{"start":3404.02,"end":3406.02,"text":"它是顯然"},{"start":3406.02,"end":3408.02,"text":"不是我們心目中的偏鄉"},{"start":3408.02,"end":3410.02,"text":"但是"},{"start":3410.02,"end":3412.02,"text":"它等一下我要講"},{"start":3412.02,"end":3414.02,"text":"它有一點"},{"start":3414.02,"end":3416.02,"text":"有時候我們稱它為教育優先"},{"start":3416.02,"end":3418.02,"text":"或文化不利"},{"start":3418.02,"end":3420.02,"text":"它比較不是大院原來"},{"start":3420.02,"end":3422.02,"text":"訂偏鄉地區"},{"start":3422.02,"end":3424.02,"text":"原始的概念"},{"start":3424.02,"end":3426.02,"text":"不過今天委員所提"},{"start":3426.02,"end":3428.02,"text":"不管學生人口或教師流動"},{"start":3428.02,"end":3430.02,"text":"有建議我們也要"},{"start":3430.02,"end":3432.02,"text":"想想看"},{"start":3432.02,"end":3434.02,"text":"我們會做一個在未來演繹中"},{"start":3434.02,"end":3436.02,"text":"跟學界"},{"start":3436.02,"end":3438.02,"text":"在訂模型跟學校對話的時候"},{"start":3438.02,"end":3440.02,"text":"會把委員的意見"},{"start":3440.02,"end":3442.02,"text":"也反映"},{"start":3442.02,"end":3444.02,"text":"第二個是跟家庭有關"},{"start":3444.02,"end":3446.02,"text":"一個是家庭支持一個是親職參與"},{"start":3446.02,"end":3448.02,"text":"謝謝國委員"},{"start":3448.02,"end":3450.02,"text":"有蒐集到至少38篇以上的"},{"start":3450.02,"end":3452.02,"text":"專業的研究"},{"start":3452.02,"end":3454.02,"text":"基本上"},{"start":3454.02,"end":3456.02,"text":"這些不管是剛剛"},{"start":3456.02,"end":3458.02,"text":"國委員在提支持"},{"start":3458.02,"end":3460.02,"text":"什麼叫做支持"},{"start":3460.02,"end":3462.02,"text":"也有人會反映"},{"start":3462.02,"end":3464.02,"text":"親職參與"},{"start":3464.02,"end":3466.02,"text":"什麼是我們理想中"},{"start":3466.02,"end":3468.02,"text":"明確穩定"},{"start":3468.02,"end":3470.02,"text":"所以我們終於來蒐集資訊的"},{"start":3470.02,"end":3472.02,"text":"參與這兩字的定義"},{"start":3472.02,"end":3474.02,"text":"總括還是有很多可以討論"},{"start":3474.02,"end":3476.02,"text":"以至於它相較於"},{"start":3476.02,"end":3478.02,"text":"我所提現行16個指標"},{"start":3478.02,"end":3480.02,"text":"它會有它在採認上"},{"start":3480.02,"end":3482.02,"text":"我們還要研議"},{"start":3482.02,"end":3484.02,"text":"所以我很感謝三位委員"},{"start":3484.02,"end":3486.02,"text":"提的至少在"},{"start":3486.02,"end":3488.02,"text":"指標內涵上有三項"},{"start":3488.02,"end":3490.02,"text":"以上的建議"},{"start":3490.02,"end":3492.02,"text":"這第一點今天因為沒有辦法"},{"start":3492.02,"end":3494.02,"text":"在這邊馬上做一個明確的"},{"start":3494.02,"end":3496.02,"text":"說明說它可納不納"},{"start":3496.02,"end":3498.02,"text":"因為我們訂這個指標的時候"},{"start":3498.02,"end":3500.02,"text":"都已經花了大概是一年半以上"},{"start":3500.02,"end":3502.02,"text":"才變成模型的"},{"start":3502.02,"end":3504.02,"text":"所以是容我這"},{"start":3504.02,"end":3506.02,"text":"三個很具體的建議"},{"start":3506.02,"end":3508.02,"text":"剛剛我有初步說明請讓我們可以有研議的機會"},{"start":3508.02,"end":3510.02,"text":"第二個擴大參與"},{"start":3510.02,"end":3512.02,"text":"我們覺得應該要這我們來處理"},{"start":3512.02,"end":3514.02,"text":"至於三年檢討或兩年檢討"},{"start":3514.02,"end":3516.02,"text":"是這樣"},{"start":3516.02,"end":3518.02,"text":"現行因為國中升高中"},{"start":3518.02,"end":3520.02,"text":"高中升大學涉及到升學的一些"},{"start":3520.02,"end":3522.02,"text":"定義之後"},{"start":3522.02,"end":3524.02,"text":"它的身分"},{"start":3524.02,"end":3526.02,"text":"所以現在定為三年"},{"start":3526.02,"end":3528.02,"text":"如果我們用兩年"},{"start":3528.02,"end":3530.02,"text":"怕會有一些"},{"start":3530.02,"end":3532.02,"text":"在我們未來運作上"},{"start":3532.02,"end":3534.02,"text":"學校身分在升學期間"},{"start":3534.02,"end":3536.02,"text":"一年級之後有變動"},{"start":3536.02,"end":3538.02,"text":"這樣子對它沒有穩定性恐怕會不好"},{"start":3538.02,"end":3540.02,"text":"以上"},{"start":3540.02,"end":3542.02,"text":"三個三大面向的問題"},{"start":3542.02,"end":3544.02,"text":"我們做這樣的一個初步回應"},{"start":3544.02,"end":3546.02,"text":"至於要研議的事項"},{"start":3546.02,"end":3548.02,"text":"我們都會很積極的按照委員提示的方向"},{"start":3548.02,"end":3550.02,"text":"來努力謝謝"},{"start":3550.02,"end":3552.02,"text":"謝謝署長的一個回應"},{"start":3552.02,"end":3554.02,"text":"那我先說明一下"},{"start":3554.02,"end":3556.02,"text":"這裡有拿到"},{"start":3556.02,"end":3558.02,"text":"郭奕勤委員針對第四條"},{"start":3558.02,"end":3560.02,"text":"所提出的附帶決議"},{"start":3560.02,"end":3562.02,"text":"那郭奕勤委員有沒有要做說明"},{"start":3564.02,"end":3566.02,"text":"好然後接著葉原志委員"},{"start":3566.02,"end":3568.02,"text":"這個部分就是剛剛"},{"start":3568.02,"end":3570.02,"text":"這個署長講的"},{"start":3570.02,"end":3572.02,"text":"現在是這個標準每三年檢討一次"},{"start":3572.02,"end":3574.02,"text":"那我想我們還是"},{"start":3574.02,"end":3576.02,"text":"就是將現行這三年檢討一次的頻率"},{"start":3576.02,"end":3578.02,"text":"看有沒有縮短的可能性"},{"start":3578.02,"end":3580.02,"text":"就是說這個部分我們可能是往"},{"start":3580.02,"end":3582.02,"text":"這個部分這個"},{"start":3582.02,"end":3584.02,"text":"努力看看"},{"start":3584.02,"end":3586.02,"text":"那所以我就提這個附帶決議"},{"start":3586.02,"end":3588.02,"text":"好"},{"start":3588.02,"end":3590.02,"text":"請問一下那個"},{"start":3590.02,"end":3592.02,"text":"機關代表有沒有補充說明"},{"start":3592.02,"end":3594.02,"text":"還是沒有意見"},{"start":3596.02,"end":3598.02,"text":"好那我們就照案通過"},{"start":3598.02,"end":3600.02,"text":"對來邀請相關的單位"},{"start":3600.02,"end":3602.02,"text":"來研議謝謝"},{"start":3602.02,"end":3604.02,"text":"第四條郭奕勤等委員所提出的"},{"start":3604.02,"end":3606.02,"text":"附帶決議照案通過"},{"start":3606.02,"end":3608.02,"text":"來葉原志委員也是針對第四條嗎"},{"start":3608.02,"end":3610.02,"text":"對對對"},{"start":3610.02,"end":3612.02,"text":"我想問一下署長"},{"start":3612.02,"end":3614.02,"text":"因為這個你剛剛的回答"},{"start":3614.02,"end":3616.02,"text":"我是聽到兩個重點"},{"start":3616.02,"end":3618.02,"text":"一個是說現在的十六個指標裡面"},{"start":3618.02,"end":3620.02,"text":"可能已經有納入"},{"start":3620.02,"end":3622.02,"text":"就是這幾位委員他所考慮的因素"},{"start":3622.02,"end":3624.02,"text":"第二個是這幾個委員"},{"start":3624.02,"end":3626.02,"text":"所提到的"},{"start":3626.02,"end":3628.02,"text":"有部分的因素"},{"start":3628.02,"end":3630.02,"text":"也許在實行上會有他的困難度"},{"start":3630.02,"end":3632.02,"text":"譬如說教師的流動率"},{"start":3632.02,"end":3634.02,"text":"因為你剛剛是提到說"},{"start":3634.02,"end":3636.02,"text":"現在如果要以教師流動率當作偏向"},{"start":3636.02,"end":3638.02,"text":"對學校的參考指標的話"},{"start":3638.02,"end":3640.02,"text":"其實現在直轄市的教師流動率也很高"},{"start":3640.02,"end":3642.02,"text":"大概是這個意思"},{"start":3642.02,"end":3644.02,"text":"還有就是其實我看到教育部"},{"start":3644.02,"end":3646.02,"text":"好像有提一個方案"},{"start":3646.02,"end":3648.02,"text":"就是針對公費的老師"},{"start":3648.02,"end":3650.02,"text":"如果他們要"},{"start":3650.02,"end":3652.02,"text":"就是不當老師的話"},{"start":3652.02,"end":3654.02,"text":"要提高他的罰金是不是"},{"start":3654.02,"end":3656.02,"text":"所以這個措施是不是也會"},{"start":3656.02,"end":3658.02,"text":"提高偏鄉老師的教師的流動"},{"start":3658.02,"end":3660.02,"text":"就是穩定教師"},{"start":3660.02,"end":3662.02,"text":"比較沒有那麼流動"},{"start":3662.02,"end":3664.02,"text":"那所以如果把教師的流動率"},{"start":3664.02,"end":3666.02,"text":"放在這個條文裡面的話"},{"start":3666.02,"end":3668.02,"text":"會不會造成偏鄉學校認定的困難"},{"start":3668.02,"end":3670.02,"text":"那我不知道是不是"},{"start":3670.02,"end":3672.02,"text":"大概是這個意思"},{"start":3672.02,"end":3674.02,"text":"那你現在署長的意思是說"},{"start":3674.02,"end":3676.02,"text":"你可以接受這些版本"},{"start":3676.02,"end":3678.02,"text":"只是說要把這些因素剔除"},{"start":3678.02,"end":3680.02,"text":"還是覺得"},{"start":3680.02,"end":3682.02,"text":"就不要這些因素"},{"start":3682.02,"end":3684.02,"text":"就是按照你們所訂定的16個指標來做"},{"start":3684.02,"end":3686.02,"text":"到底是你的"},{"start":3686.02,"end":3688.02,"text":"可不可以具體的講出來"},{"start":3688.02,"end":3690.02,"text":"你的建議好不好"},{"start":3690.02,"end":3692.02,"text":"具體的明確講出來"},{"start":3692.02,"end":3694.02,"text":"聽的我不是聽得很清楚這樣子"},{"start":3694.02,"end":3696.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3696.02,"end":3698.02,"text":"我來說明一下"},{"start":3698.02,"end":3700.02,"text":"剛剛的說明有16個指標"},{"start":3700.02,"end":3702.02,"text":"那委員所提的三個面向"},{"start":3702.02,"end":3704.02,"text":"學生人口跟教師流動"},{"start":3704.02,"end":3706.02,"text":"我剛剛有初步說明"},{"start":3706.02,"end":3708.02,"text":"他不是典型我們在認定偏鄉地區"},{"start":3708.02,"end":3710.02,"text":"所以我剛剛舉一個"},{"start":3710.02,"end":3712.02,"text":"台北市或某一個都會地區裡面"},{"start":3712.02,"end":3714.02,"text":"老師流動率"},{"start":3714.02,"end":3716.02,"text":"並且進而講"},{"start":3716.02,"end":3718.02,"text":"他是我們教育界"},{"start":3718.02,"end":3720.02,"text":"可能會採認的文化不利"},{"start":3720.02,"end":3722.02,"text":"或是教育優先區學校"},{"start":3722.02,"end":3724.02,"text":"那樣的一個觀念"},{"start":3724.02,"end":3726.02,"text":"這傳統以來都有運作"},{"start":3726.02,"end":3728.02,"text":"所以我特別解釋說"},{"start":3728.02,"end":3730.02,"text":"兩位委員所提的"},{"start":3730.02,"end":3732.02,"text":"我們會尊重來演繹看看"},{"start":3732.02,"end":3734.02,"text":"但初步他在做指標上"},{"start":3734.02,"end":3736.02,"text":"跟典型指標不同"},{"start":3736.02,"end":3738.02,"text":"但我們覺得委員提的"},{"start":3738.02,"end":3740.02,"text":"都是來自很多地方的聲音"},{"start":3740.02,"end":3742.02,"text":"我們都願意來演繹"},{"start":3742.02,"end":3744.02,"text":"大概是這個樣子"},{"start":3744.02,"end":3746.02,"text":"那至於公費罰金等等"},{"start":3746.02,"end":3748.02,"text":"去讓教師流動有影響"},{"start":3748.02,"end":3750.02,"text":"甚至變小這個"},{"start":3750.02,"end":3752.02,"text":"可能這在政策上"},{"start":3752.02,"end":3754.02,"text":"我們都會納入委員這些的看法"},{"start":3754.02,"end":3756.02,"text":"謝謝您"},{"start":3756.02,"end":3758.02,"text":"我只是說你的意思就變成說"},{"start":3758.02,"end":3760.02,"text":"其實你從教師流動率"},{"start":3760.02,"end":3762.02,"text":"來看偏鄉的指標"},{"start":3762.02,"end":3764.02,"text":"就沒有那麼直接"},{"start":3764.02,"end":3766.02,"text":"那所以你的建議是直接把教師流動率拿掉"},{"start":3766.02,"end":3768.02,"text":"還是怎麼樣"},{"start":3768.02,"end":3770.02,"text":"就是你的具體"},{"start":3770.02,"end":3772.02,"text":"針對這一條你的建議是什麼"},{"start":3772.02,"end":3774.02,"text":"我剛剛有跟委員報告說"},{"start":3774.02,"end":3776.02,"text":"如果現在要回應"},{"start":3776.02,"end":3778.02,"text":"我也是跟委員報告說"},{"start":3778.02,"end":3780.02,"text":"我們都會有一個相對的"},{"start":3780.02,"end":3782.02,"text":"都會的例子"},{"start":3782.02,"end":3784.02,"text":"以至於跟大家報告說"},{"start":3784.02,"end":3786.02,"text":"他是不是屬於專屬偏鄉的"},{"start":3786.02,"end":3788.02,"text":"這個定義之下"},{"start":3788.02,"end":3790.02,"text":"能夠做為指標的條件"},{"start":3790.02,"end":3792.02,"text":"我是有"},{"start":3792.02,"end":3794.02,"text":"我個人是有一點疑慮"},{"start":3794.02,"end":3796.02,"text":"但是因為是委員們"},{"start":3796.02,"end":3798.02,"text":"收集了很多意見"},{"start":3798.02,"end":3800.02,"text":"我們都尊重至少要演繹"},{"start":3800.02,"end":3802.02,"text":"所以我不會排除說"},{"start":3802.02,"end":3804.02,"text":"委員這麼好的收集意見之後"},{"start":3804.02,"end":3806.02,"text":"那我認為"},{"start":3806.02,"end":3808.02,"text":"我們可以跟學界"},{"start":3808.02,"end":3810.02,"text":"還有基層老師們"},{"start":3810.02,"end":3812.02,"text":"大家再商量看看"},{"start":3812.02,"end":3814.02,"text":"大概是這樣子"},{"start":3814.02,"end":3816.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3816.02,"end":3818.02,"text":"這是剛才的第八條"},{"start":3818.02,"end":3820.02,"text":"對"},{"start":3820.02,"end":3822.02,"text":"那我想這個討論"},{"start":3822.02,"end":3824.02,"text":"應該已經滿充分了"},{"start":3824.02,"end":3826.02,"text":"是不是大家"},{"start":3826.02,"end":3828.02,"text":"來陳培育委員"},{"start":3828.02,"end":3830.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3830.02,"end":3832.02,"text":"謝謝署長"},{"start":3832.02,"end":3834.02,"text":"我相信署長來自基層"},{"start":3834.02,"end":3836.02,"text":"一定理解我們現在在面臨的困境"},{"start":3836.02,"end":3838.02,"text":"那我沒有一定要"},{"start":3838.02,"end":3840.02,"text":"一定知道"},{"start":3840.02,"end":3842.02,"text":"我知道沒有辦法立刻放進這個條文"},{"start":3842.02,"end":3844.02,"text":"所以我剛剛有拜託"},{"start":3844.02,"end":3846.02,"text":"我跟教育部討論一個附帶決議"},{"start":3846.02,"end":3848.02,"text":"我們是不是就來確定一下"},{"start":3848.02,"end":3850.02,"text":"如果附帶決議可行就沒有問題"},{"start":3850.02,"end":3852.02,"text":"這樣好不好"},{"start":3852.02,"end":3854.02,"text":"建宇你看一下"},{"start":3854.02,"end":3856.02,"text":"等一下我們確定一下"},{"start":3856.02,"end":3858.02,"text":"好來"},{"start":3858.02,"end":3860.02,"text":"列一下"},{"start":3860.02,"end":3862.02,"text":"第四條的附帶決議"},{"start":3862.02,"end":3864.02,"text":"建於飛山飛市學校"},{"start":3864.02,"end":3866.02,"text":"亦可能面臨失資人力"},{"start":3866.02,"end":3868.02,"text":"教育資源不足等問題"},{"start":3868.02,"end":3870.02,"text":"原請教育部研議參酌偏遠地區學校相關支持措施"},{"start":3870.02,"end":3872.02,"text":"提高對飛山飛市學校的協助"},{"start":3872.02,"end":3876.02,"text":"並提升學校教育資源及教學支持量"},{"start":3876.02,"end":3878.02,"text":"我覺得這個方向應該要努力了"},{"start":3878.02,"end":3880.02,"text":"我加幾個字"},{"start":3880.02,"end":3882.02,"text":"來署長你參考一下"},{"start":3882.02,"end":3884.02,"text":"我建議加幾個字"},{"start":3884.02,"end":3886.02,"text":"嚴請教育部邀請地方"},{"start":3886.02,"end":3888.02,"text":"政府共同研議"},{"start":3888.02,"end":3890.02,"text":"要請地方政府共同研議"},{"start":3890.02,"end":3892.02,"text":"因為飛山飛市學校"},{"start":3892.02,"end":3894.02,"text":"其實地方教育局的責任也很重"},{"start":3894.02,"end":3896.02,"text":"好可以"},{"start":3896.02,"end":3898.02,"text":"主席我第四條"},{"start":3898.02,"end":3900.02,"text":"沒有要堅持"},{"start":3900.02,"end":3902.02,"text":"但是我就希望有附帶決議"},{"start":3902.02,"end":3904.02,"text":"那如果這樣的話"},{"start":3904.02,"end":3906.02,"text":"我們是不是就不予修正"},{"start":3906.02,"end":3908.02,"text":"維持現行條文"},{"start":3908.02,"end":3910.02,"text":"但是按照附帶決議通過"},{"start":3910.02,"end":3912.02,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":3912.02,"end":3914.02,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":3914.02,"end":3916.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":3916.02,"end":3918.02,"text":"好"},{"start":3918.02,"end":3920.02,"text":"那我們推進"},{"start":3920.02,"end":3922.02,"text":"好"},{"start":3922.02,"end":3924.02,"text":"我們推進到第五條"},{"start":3924.02,"end":3926.02,"text":"來葛如君委員請"},{"start":3926.02,"end":3928.02,"text":"我覺得這樣好像有點太快啦"},{"start":3928.02,"end":3930.02,"text":"因為"},{"start":3930.02,"end":3932.02,"text":"那麼多委員"},{"start":3932.02,"end":3934.02,"text":"暫時保留"},{"start":3934.02,"end":3936.02,"text":"對啊保留好不好"},{"start":3936.02,"end":3938.02,"text":"對啊謝謝"},{"start":3938.02,"end":3940.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":3940.02,"end":3942.02,"text":"因為下一期的召委陳培宇委員"},{"start":3942.02,"end":3944.02,"text":"他還是會"},{"start":3944.02,"end":3946.02,"text":"要一部沒有院版"},{"start":3946.02,"end":3948.02,"text":"然後我們用很認真的審"},{"start":3948.02,"end":3950.02,"text":"然後每一個都說不修正不修正"},{"start":3950.02,"end":3952.02,"text":"那我們不是審假的"},{"start":3952.02,"end":3954.02,"text":"好那我們就暫時保留"},{"start":3954.02,"end":3956.02,"text":"好推進到第五條"},{"start":3956.02,"end":3958.02,"text":"第五條的條文修正"},{"start":3958.02,"end":3960.02,"text":"由委員汪曉玲等17人"},{"start":3960.02,"end":3962.02,"text":"一個提案"},{"start":3962.02,"end":3964.02,"text":"那有沒有人要"},{"start":3964.02,"end":3966.02,"text":"做發言"},{"start":3968.02,"end":3970.02,"text":"好來"},{"start":3970.02,"end":3972.02,"text":"剛才的第四條"},{"start":3972.02,"end":3974.02,"text":"附帶決議"},{"start":3974.02,"end":3976.02,"text":"好"},{"start":3976.02,"end":3978.02,"text":"剛才的"},{"start":3978.02,"end":3980.02,"text":"我簽完名"},{"start":3980.02,"end":3982.02,"text":"應給大家"},{"start":3982.02,"end":3984.02,"text":"好通過"},{"start":3984.02,"end":3986.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":3986.02,"end":3988.02,"text":"好來第五條"},{"start":3988.02,"end":3990.02,"text":"因為提案委員不在"},{"start":3990.02,"end":3992.02,"text":"有沒有人"},{"start":3992.02,"end":3994.02,"text":"那我們就暫時保留嗎"},{"start":3994.02,"end":3996.02,"text":"國瑜請委員請"},{"start":3996.02,"end":3998.02,"text":"我建議維持現行條文"},{"start":3998.02,"end":4000.02,"text":"因為他們好像只有一個育孫這個部分"},{"start":4000.02,"end":4002.02,"text":"那第六條文應該是"},{"start":4002.02,"end":4004.02,"text":"OK的"},{"start":4004.02,"end":4006.02,"text":"那教育部的意見呢"},{"start":4006.02,"end":4008.02,"text":"依照國瑜的意見"},{"start":4008.02,"end":4010.02,"text":"其他委員有沒有意見"},{"start":4010.02,"end":4012.02,"text":"那我們不許修正維持現行條文"},{"start":4012.02,"end":4014.02,"text":"我們繼續推進到"},{"start":4014.02,"end":4016.02,"text":"第六條之一"},{"start":4016.02,"end":4018.02,"text":"第六條之一條文增訂"},{"start":4018.02,"end":4020.02,"text":"由委員徐欣瑩等16人"},{"start":4020.02,"end":4022.02,"text":"一個提案"},{"start":4022.02,"end":4024.02,"text":"那請問有沒有人要做發言"},{"start":4024.02,"end":4026.02,"text":"因為提案委員也不在"},{"start":4026.02,"end":4028.02,"text":"好"},{"start":4028.02,"end":4030.02,"text":"羅廷瑋召委"},{"start":4030.02,"end":4032.02,"text":"是可以聽聽看教育部的"},{"start":4032.02,"end":4034.02,"text":"說法啦"},{"start":4034.02,"end":4036.02,"text":"有確定就是不建議新增嗎"},{"start":4036.02,"end":4038.02,"text":"教育部的說法"},{"start":4038.02,"end":4040.02,"text":"好請教育部回應"},{"start":4040.02,"end":4042.02,"text":"沒關係你直接說"},{"start":4042.02,"end":4044.02,"text":"謝謝召委帶徐委員有說明"},{"start":4044.02,"end":4046.02,"text":"那第一點"},{"start":4046.02,"end":4048.02,"text":"那麼他這裡所提的諸多"},{"start":4048.02,"end":4050.02,"text":"的概念都很好"},{"start":4050.02,"end":4052.02,"text":"那大院在第一版本的時候"},{"start":4052.02,"end":4054.02,"text":"就其實已經有考慮"},{"start":4054.02,"end":4056.02,"text":"包含在第15條"},{"start":4056.02,"end":4058.02,"text":"在第21條"},{"start":4058.02,"end":4060.02,"text":"等等其實都能夠"},{"start":4060.02,"end":4062.02,"text":"在那邊看到原來院裡面"},{"start":4062.02,"end":4064.02,"text":"就有考慮以上"},{"start":4064.02,"end":4066.02,"text":"那至於可能徐委員會考慮說"},{"start":4066.02,"end":4068.02,"text":"有一些做法上的細節"},{"start":4068.02,"end":4070.02,"text":"我們會參照"},{"start":4070.02,"end":4072.02,"text":"他裡面有一些做法上的建議我們會努力"},{"start":4072.02,"end":4074.02,"text":"但是有一些方向上的"},{"start":4074.02,"end":4076.02,"text":"其實在大院的原文字"},{"start":4076.02,"end":4078.02,"text":"其實已經有考慮尤其是第15條"},{"start":4078.02,"end":4080.02,"text":"補充完畢"},{"start":4080.02,"end":4082.02,"text":"所以大家的意見是可以不予甄定"},{"start":4082.02,"end":4084.02,"text":"就不予甄定"},{"start":4084.02,"end":4086.02,"text":"如果他有併入第15條"},{"start":4086.02,"end":4088.02,"text":"那可以啦"},{"start":4088.02,"end":4090.02,"text":"那第6條之一的"},{"start":4090.02,"end":4092.02,"text":"條文甄定"},{"start":4092.02,"end":4094.02,"text":"我們就不予甄定"},{"start":4094.02,"end":4096.02,"text":"併入第15條"},{"start":4096.02,"end":4098.02,"text":"那推進到第7條"},{"start":4098.02,"end":4100.02,"text":"第7條條文修正有委員"},{"start":4100.02,"end":4102.02,"text":"五立華等16人"},{"start":4102.02,"end":4104.02,"text":"等15個提案"},{"start":4106.02,"end":4108.02,"text":"好"},{"start":4108.02,"end":4110.02,"text":"提案委員非常多"},{"start":4110.02,"end":4112.02,"text":"來我們就依序"},{"start":4112.02,"end":4114.02,"text":"陳培宇委員郭奕勤委員葛如君委員蔡順舟委員"},{"start":4114.02,"end":4116.02,"text":"請"},{"start":4116.02,"end":4118.02,"text":"第7條我的版本是希望"},{"start":4118.02,"end":4120.02,"text":"處理專聘教師的問題"},{"start":4120.02,"end":4122.02,"text":"我相信教育部現在"},{"start":4122.02,"end":4124.02,"text":"在掌握第一線的訊息"},{"start":4124.02,"end":4126.02,"text":"應該都有發現當偏遠地區"},{"start":4126.02,"end":4128.02,"text":"學校找不到老師的時候"},{"start":4128.02,"end":4130.02,"text":"其實主管機關本來應該是要用"},{"start":4130.02,"end":4132.02,"text":"專聘教師"},{"start":4132.02,"end":4134.02,"text":"可是專聘教師現在"},{"start":4134.02,"end":4136.02,"text":"的現行的規定是說"},{"start":4136.02,"end":4138.02,"text":"要具備教師證"},{"start":4138.02,"end":4140.02,"text":"而且只能由縣市政府統一"},{"start":4140.02,"end":4142.02,"text":"甄選然後聘期"},{"start":4142.02,"end":4144.02,"text":"一次最長兩年這是"},{"start":4144.02,"end":4146.02,"text":"現在的規定可是在這個"},{"start":4146.02,"end":4148.02,"text":"規定底下目前多數"},{"start":4148.02,"end":4150.02,"text":"已經具備教師證的老師多半"},{"start":4150.02,"end":4152.02,"text":"都傾向在都會區服務"},{"start":4152.02,"end":4154.02,"text":"過去我們看了案例有縣市政府"},{"start":4154.02,"end":4156.02,"text":"曾經舉辦過專聘教師"},{"start":4156.02,"end":4158.02,"text":"的甄選結果報考率很低"},{"start":4158.02,"end":4160.02,"text":"然後而且目前也都已經離任"},{"start":4160.02,"end":4162.02,"text":"所以我們的版本的修正"},{"start":4162.02,"end":4164.02,"text":"是我想要請教一部研議"},{"start":4164.02,"end":4166.02,"text":"主管機關可以用"},{"start":4166.02,"end":4168.02,"text":"契約專案來聘專聘教師"},{"start":4168.02,"end":4170.02,"text":"那同時"},{"start":4170.02,"end":4172.02,"text":"還希望可以開放各校因為以前"},{"start":4172.02,"end":4174.02,"text":"只有縣市政府他們來可以"},{"start":4174.02,"end":4176.02,"text":"來甄選代理教師做為專聘"},{"start":4176.02,"end":4178.02,"text":"教師那專聘一次的聘期"},{"start":4178.02,"end":4180.02,"text":"是兩年比代理教師的一聘"},{"start":4180.02,"end":4182.02,"text":"一年會更穩定我認為"},{"start":4182.02,"end":4184.02,"text":"對老師也誘因對穩定偏向"},{"start":4184.02,"end":4186.02,"text":"的詩詞也有幫助"},{"start":4186.02,"end":4188.02,"text":"所以我的版本第七條"},{"start":4188.02,"end":4190.02,"text":"在專聘教師的部分我的修正"},{"start":4190.02,"end":4192.02,"text":"是是這個樣子希望教育部"},{"start":4192.02,"end":4194.02,"text":"可以採納謝謝好等一下"},{"start":4194.02,"end":4196.02,"text":"那再請教一部一併回應接下來請"},{"start":4196.02,"end":4198.02,"text":"郭議員好"},{"start":4198.02,"end":4200.02,"text":"我想那個偏鄉的學校"},{"start":4200.02,"end":4202.02,"text":"其實長期面臨這個合格的教師"},{"start":4202.02,"end":4204.02,"text":"聘不到然後優秀的代理教師"},{"start":4204.02,"end":4206.02,"text":"其實也留不住這樣子的一種"},{"start":4206.02,"end":4208.02,"text":"惡性循環喔那現行"},{"start":4208.02,"end":4210.02,"text":"的條文是將六年再聘"},{"start":4210.02,"end":4212.02,"text":"六年的這個穩定的一個保障"},{"start":4212.02,"end":4214.02,"text":"還有第二專長的這個"},{"start":4214.02,"end":4216.02,"text":"進修補助但是是局限"},{"start":4216.02,"end":4218.02,"text":"在這個主管機關"},{"start":4218.02,"end":4220.02,"text":"禁用之專聘的教師"},{"start":4220.02,"end":4222.02,"text":"但是其實這樣子反而會"},{"start":4222.02,"end":4224.02,"text":"排除了比較大量在這個"},{"start":4224.02,"end":4226.02,"text":"學校第一線耕耘喔然後"},{"start":4226.02,"end":4228.02,"text":"有所謂的這個學校自聘合格"},{"start":4228.02,"end":4230.02,"text":"的這個代理教師這個部分喔"},{"start":4230.02,"end":4232.02,"text":"那難免會造成這個制度上的"},{"start":4232.02,"end":4234.02,"text":"一個待遇不公跟所謂的"},{"start":4234.02,"end":4236.02,"text":"這個資源的一個落差"},{"start":4236.02,"end":4238.02,"text":"那我這邊我自己的一個版本"},{"start":4238.02,"end":4240.02,"text":"是希望說這個第一個"},{"start":4240.02,"end":4242.02,"text":"包含這個學校自聘代理"},{"start":4242.02,"end":4244.02,"text":"教師的一個權益的一個保障"},{"start":4244.02,"end":4246.02,"text":"那將學校自聘"},{"start":4246.02,"end":4248.02,"text":"的合格代理教師也納入規範"},{"start":4248.02,"end":4250.02,"text":"那任滿六年呢取得"},{"start":4250.02,"end":4252.02,"text":"第二專長然後再來表現"},{"start":4252.02,"end":4254.02,"text":"優良者喔可以"},{"start":4254.02,"end":4256.02,"text":"得一次再聘六年"},{"start":4256.02,"end":4258.02,"text":"並享有這個甄選加分的"},{"start":4258.02,"end":4260.02,"text":"一個優待喔那落實"},{"start":4260.02,"end":4262.02,"text":"這個同工同酬同時"},{"start":4262.02,"end":4264.02,"text":"還有留才的一個保障喔"},{"start":4264.02,"end":4266.02,"text":"那另外就是偏鄉教師"},{"start":4266.02,"end":4268.02,"text":"他們平常其實教學的負擔"},{"start":4268.02,"end":4270.02,"text":"其實就已經滿重的喔"},{"start":4270.02,"end":4272.02,"text":"那如果還要再奔波到大學"},{"start":4272.02,"end":4274.02,"text":"去進修我覺得這個不管"},{"start":4274.02,"end":4276.02,"text":"是交通也好或者是"},{"start":4276.02,"end":4278.02,"text":"這個距離也好其實"},{"start":4278.02,"end":4280.02,"text":"是有點辛苦跟困難"},{"start":4280.02,"end":4282.02,"text":"那這個部分呢其實是不是能夠"},{"start":4282.02,"end":4284.02,"text":"採用所謂的這個學分班"},{"start":4284.02,"end":4286.02,"text":"的原則第二專長學分班"},{"start":4286.02,"end":4288.02,"text":"這個原則採這個遠距的一個"},{"start":4288.02,"end":4290.02,"text":"教學來降低這個進修的一個門檻"},{"start":4290.02,"end":4292.02,"text":"喔那另外第三"},{"start":4292.02,"end":4294.02,"text":"個部分是這個偏鄉教師"},{"start":4294.02,"end":4296.02,"text":"進修跟在地文化的一個結合"},{"start":4296.02,"end":4298.02,"text":"那明定課程的內容是不是"},{"start":4298.02,"end":4300.02,"text":"應該要符合這個偏鄉學生"},{"start":4300.02,"end":4302.02,"text":"跟學習還有在地文化的一個需求"},{"start":4302.02,"end":4304.02,"text":"來確保這個教師所"},{"start":4304.02,"end":4306.02,"text":"所學就馬上"},{"start":4306.02,"end":4308.02,"text":"可以回饋給這個偏鄉的孩子喔"},{"start":4308.02,"end":4310.02,"text":"那這個是我的這個"},{"start":4310.02,"end":4312.02,"text":"第七個版本修訂的"},{"start":4312.02,"end":4314.02,"text":"這樣子的一個重點喔"},{"start":4314.02,"end":4316.02,"text":"那等一下也請這個教育部"},{"start":4316.02,"end":4318.02,"text":"也說明一下"},{"start":4318.02,"end":4320.02,"text":"好謝謝有請葛如君委員"},{"start":4320.02,"end":4322.02,"text":"好謝謝喔在第七條"},{"start":4322.02,"end":4324.02,"text":"是開放片眼地區"},{"start":4324.02,"end":4326.02,"text":"學校的專聘管道"},{"start":4326.02,"end":4328.02,"text":"我們一直都在講學校"},{"start":4328.02,"end":4330.02,"text":"學校如果沒有學生"},{"start":4330.02,"end":4332.02,"text":"哪來的學校但是如果"},{"start":4332.02,"end":4334.02,"text":"有了學校卻沒有老師"},{"start":4334.02,"end":4336.02,"text":"又學生又如何學習"},{"start":4336.02,"end":4338.02,"text":"所以一個學校"},{"start":4338.02,"end":4340.02,"text":"不管是偏鄉或偏遠地區"},{"start":4340.02,"end":4342.02,"text":"或者是城市"},{"start":4342.02,"end":4344.02,"text":"我想都是要重視"},{"start":4344.02,"end":4346.02,"text":"學生的權益"},{"start":4346.02,"end":4348.02,"text":"學生的這個支持"},{"start":4348.02,"end":4350.02,"text":"還有家長參與度之外"},{"start":4350.02,"end":4352.02,"text":"老師的這個專聘的管道"},{"start":4352.02,"end":4354.02,"text":"也絕對是非常重要的喔"},{"start":4354.02,"end":4356.02,"text":"那所以本席提案的"},{"start":4356.02,"end":4358.02,"text":"版本第七條呢"},{"start":4358.02,"end":4360.02,"text":"也就針對這個"},{"start":4360.02,"end":4362.02,"text":"各校教師評審委員會"},{"start":4362.02,"end":4364.02,"text":"專案聘任代理教師"},{"start":4364.02,"end":4366.02,"text":"這個議題呢來做討論喔"},{"start":4366.02,"end":4368.02,"text":"那考量偏鄉教師"},{"start":4368.02,"end":4370.02,"text":"人力增補不易啊"},{"start":4370.02,"end":4372.02,"text":"在聘期內表現優良者"},{"start":4372.02,"end":4374.02,"text":"可以再聘"},{"start":4374.02,"end":4376.02,"text":"無次數限制喔"},{"start":4376.02,"end":4378.02,"text":"那最多有一個年期的"},{"start":4378.02,"end":4380.02,"text":"限制那事實上呢早在"},{"start":4380.02,"end":4382.02,"text":"第三會期本席擔任召委的時候"},{"start":4382.02,"end":4384.02,"text":"就曾經有安排過這個"},{"start":4384.02,"end":4386.02,"text":"偏遠地區學校"},{"start":4386.02,"end":4388.02,"text":"教育發展條例的公聽會"},{"start":4388.02,"end":4390.02,"text":"我想委員跟官員應該都還記得喔"},{"start":4390.02,"end":4392.02,"text":"那當時的與會專家"},{"start":4392.02,"end":4394.02,"text":"以及學者代表"},{"start":4394.02,"end":4396.02,"text":"還有非常多的立委同僚喔"},{"start":4396.02,"end":4398.02,"text":"最關心的議題就是偏鄉的教師"},{"start":4398.02,"end":4400.02,"text":"人力面臨難招募"},{"start":4400.02,"end":4402.02,"text":"難教好"},{"start":4402.02,"end":4404.02,"text":"難留任的三難的局面喔"},{"start":4404.02,"end":4406.02,"text":"那因此啊我們真的是"},{"start":4406.02,"end":4408.02,"text":"一定要來透過這一次的"},{"start":4408.02,"end":4410.02,"text":"修法來打開偏鄉"},{"start":4410.02,"end":4412.02,"text":"教師招募的宰門"},{"start":4412.02,"end":4414.02,"text":"那否則我們這個"},{"start":4414.02,"end":4416.02,"text":"每一個條文都不建議增修"},{"start":4416.02,"end":4418.02,"text":"都不建議調整"},{"start":4418.02,"end":4420.02,"text":"那我們的現場一線"},{"start":4420.02,"end":4422.02,"text":"的這些非常辛苦的"},{"start":4422.02,"end":4424.02,"text":"老師"},{"start":4424.02,"end":4426.02,"text":"但是他很想教"},{"start":4426.02,"end":4428.02,"text":"但是他進不了這個門"},{"start":4428.02,"end":4430.02,"text":"那我們又不去討論這件事"},{"start":4430.02,"end":4432.02,"text":"其實這會是一個非常非常重大的難題喔"},{"start":4432.02,"end":4434.02,"text":"那目前的專聘教師制度開辦了六年"},{"start":4434.02,"end":4436.02,"text":"全台只有新北市嘉義縣"},{"start":4436.02,"end":4438.02,"text":"曾經聘到"},{"start":4438.02,"end":4440.02,"text":"專聘教師喔"},{"start":4440.02,"end":4442.02,"text":"那嘉義縣是"},{"start":4442.02,"end":4444.02,"text":"108年教師"},{"start":4444.02,"end":4446.02,"text":"甄選備取者"},{"start":4446.02,"end":4448.02,"text":"地補為這個專聘教師"},{"start":4448.02,"end":4450.02,"text":"只有五個人報到"},{"start":4450.02,"end":4452.02,"text":"新北市開放教師甄選"},{"start":4452.02,"end":4454.02,"text":"落榜者填選"},{"start":4454.02,"end":4456.02,"text":"是落榜的人"},{"start":4456.02,"end":4458.02,"text":"去讓他再填一次喔"},{"start":4458.02,"end":4460.02,"text":"敗部復活 僅一人報到"},{"start":4460.02,"end":4462.02,"text":"而這些人後來全數離職"},{"start":4462.02,"end":4464.02,"text":"或轉為"},{"start":4464.02,"end":4466.02,"text":"正式教師"},{"start":4466.02,"end":4468.02,"text":"那除此之外呢"},{"start":4468.02,"end":4470.02,"text":"根據立法院法治局的資料"},{"start":4470.02,"end":4472.02,"text":"也提到112年的全國"},{"start":4472.02,"end":4474.02,"text":"限職專聘教師的人數為0"},{"start":4474.02,"end":4476.02,"text":"那教育部是不是要確認一下"},{"start":4476.02,"end":4478.02,"text":"否則我們現在"},{"start":4478.02,"end":4480.02,"text":"要講說我們要"},{"start":4480.02,"end":4482.02,"text":"有這個評審委員會啊"},{"start":4482.02,"end":4484.02,"text":"要專案聘任代理教師啊"},{"start":4484.02,"end":4486.02,"text":"要有專聘教師"},{"start":4486.02,"end":4488.02,"text":"結果呢"},{"start":4488.02,"end":4490.02,"text":"我們現在看很多的數字"},{"start":4490.02,"end":4492.02,"text":"包括我們法治局的資料"},{"start":4492.02,"end":4494.02,"text":"112年全國限職"},{"start":4494.02,"end":4496.02,"text":"專聘教師竟然是0啊"},{"start":4496.02,"end":4498.02,"text":"那現在這個人數到底是多少"},{"start":4498.02,"end":4500.02,"text":"那我們剛剛還看到了一些"},{"start":4500.02,"end":4502.02,"text":"這種"},{"start":4502.02,"end":4504.02,"text":"其實現場"},{"start":4504.02,"end":4506.02,"text":"真的是非常困難喔"},{"start":4506.02,"end":4508.02,"text":"那所以這個制度最大的問題"},{"start":4508.02,"end":4510.02,"text":"我們就可以看得到了"},{"start":4510.02,"end":4512.02,"text":"是具有合格教師資格者"},{"start":4512.02,"end":4514.02,"text":"大多數會直接去考"},{"start":4514.02,"end":4516.02,"text":"正式教師"},{"start":4516.02,"end":4518.02,"text":"他相當不容易的"},{"start":4518.02,"end":4520.02,"text":"去考慮"},{"start":4520.02,"end":4522.02,"text":"要到偏鄉的學校接受一個"},{"start":4522.02,"end":4524.02,"text":"契約專案聘任"},{"start":4524.02,"end":4526.02,"text":"是專案喔"},{"start":4526.02,"end":4528.02,"text":"專案聘任的職位喔"},{"start":4528.02,"end":4530.02,"text":"也就是說這個制度啊"},{"start":4530.02,"end":4532.02,"text":"設計上就注定"},{"start":4532.02,"end":4534.02,"text":"不留人"},{"start":4534.02,"end":4536.02,"text":"學校實際找得到"},{"start":4536.02,"end":4538.02,"text":"也願意留下來的人多半沒有"},{"start":4538.02,"end":4540.02,"text":"教師證被法律"},{"start":4540.02,"end":4542.02,"text":"所規定的門檻"},{"start":4542.02,"end":4544.02,"text":"就擋在外面"},{"start":4544.02,"end":4546.02,"text":"這是此次修法我們應該要解決的"},{"start":4546.02,"end":4548.02,"text":"偏鄉教育的難題啊"},{"start":4548.02,"end":4550.02,"text":"我們的平等不要只彰顯在"},{"start":4550.02,"end":4552.02,"text":"學生的層面我們要彰顯在"},{"start":4552.02,"end":4554.02,"text":"關懷平等"},{"start":4554.02,"end":4556.02,"text":"我們的教師的教權上面"},{"start":4556.02,"end":4558.02,"text":"那你說"},{"start":4558.02,"end":4560.02,"text":"我們現在的大專院校就出現這種"},{"start":4560.02,"end":4562.02,"text":"你沒有升等成功"},{"start":4562.02,"end":4564.02,"text":"我把你改成專案教師"},{"start":4564.02,"end":4566.02,"text":"這已經夠了已經是"},{"start":4566.02,"end":4568.02,"text":"一灘渾水了我們現在到了"},{"start":4568.02,"end":4570.02,"text":"偏遠地區的學校"},{"start":4570.02,"end":4572.02,"text":"又再次出現這個問題"},{"start":4572.02,"end":4574.02,"text":"你有什麼難處你有什麼狀況"},{"start":4574.02,"end":4576.02,"text":"我給你契約專案聘任"},{"start":4576.02,"end":4578.02,"text":"可是契約專案聘任"},{"start":4578.02,"end":4580.02,"text":"很可能"},{"start":4580.02,"end":4582.02,"text":"也對於這些真正願意"},{"start":4582.02,"end":4584.02,"text":"留下來的人也是一個門檻"},{"start":4584.02,"end":4586.02,"text":"所以本席的修法"},{"start":4586.02,"end":4588.02,"text":"主張打開偏鄉教師"},{"start":4588.02,"end":4590.02,"text":"人力增補的宰門"},{"start":4590.02,"end":4592.02,"text":"把原本被這個門檻擋在門外的"},{"start":4592.02,"end":4594.02,"text":"那些真正願意"},{"start":4594.02,"end":4596.02,"text":"留在偏鄉任教"},{"start":4596.02,"end":4598.02,"text":"他"},{"start":4598.02,"end":4600.02,"text":"可以招募到"},{"start":4600.02,"end":4602.02,"text":"可以交好也願意"},{"start":4602.02,"end":4604.02,"text":"留任但是他"},{"start":4604.02,"end":4606.02,"text":"卻沒有教師證的人"},{"start":4606.02,"end":4608.02,"text":"可以用什麼"},{"start":4608.02,"end":4610.02,"text":"無證的方式還是用"},{"start":4610.02,"end":4612.02,"text":"一個額外的替代的方式"},{"start":4612.02,"end":4614.02,"text":"去做為專聘教師的身分"},{"start":4614.02,"end":4616.02,"text":"比如說無證專聘教師"},{"start":4616.02,"end":4618.02,"text":"或者其他的一個形式"},{"start":4618.02,"end":4620.02,"text":"轉一個做法"},{"start":4620.02,"end":4622.02,"text":"打開這扇門"},{"start":4622.02,"end":4624.02,"text":"用這樣子的多元的身分"},{"start":4624.02,"end":4626.02,"text":"可是又是受到認可的身分"},{"start":4626.02,"end":4628.02,"text":"在偏鄉的教育現場"},{"start":4628.02,"end":4630.02,"text":"私人教"},{"start":4630.02,"end":4632.02,"text":"那此外"},{"start":4632.02,"end":4634.02,"text":"為了增加教師增補的管道"},{"start":4634.02,"end":4636.02,"text":"本席也主張開放"},{"start":4636.02,"end":4638.02,"text":"由各校教評會"},{"start":4638.02,"end":4640.02,"text":"公開徵選代理教師"},{"start":4640.02,"end":4642.02,"text":"或專案聘任代理教師"},{"start":4642.02,"end":4644.02,"text":"那另外針對本席提案版本的第七條"},{"start":4644.02,"end":4646.02,"text":"第一項"},{"start":4646.02,"end":4648.02,"text":"有一個後半段"},{"start":4648.02,"end":4650.02,"text":"寫到表現優良者"},{"start":4650.02,"end":4652.02,"text":"由學校校長再聘之"},{"start":4652.02,"end":4654.02,"text":"無次數限制"},{"start":4654.02,"end":4656.02,"text":"本席的版本本來有寫最多以六年為限"},{"start":4656.02,"end":4658.02,"text":"但是與教育部密集"},{"start":4658.02,"end":4660.02,"text":"討論以後"},{"start":4660.0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以上"},{"start":4756.02,"end":4758.02,"text":"好 謝謝蔡村崇委員"},{"start":4758.02,"end":4760.02,"text":"那我這邊"},{"start":4760.02,"end":4762.02,"text":"因為我也有提案版本"},{"start":4762.02,"end":4764.02,"text":"而且這一條其實"},{"start":4764.02,"end":4766.02,"text":"我在多次的質詢當中"},{"start":4766.02,"end":4768.02,"text":"有特別的去強調"},{"start":4768.02,"end":4770.02,"text":"那我最重要的目的是說"},{"start":4770.02,"end":4772.02,"text":"雖然我們在制度上"},{"start":4772.02,"end":4774.02,"text":"有設計叫專聘教師"},{"start":4774.02,"end":4776.02,"text":"可是很多地方"},{"start":4776.02,"end":4778.02,"text":"實際上是確實沒有在"},{"start":4778.02,"end":4780.02,"text":"運作 很難運作"},{"start":4780.02,"end":4782.02,"text":"那最後呢"},{"start":4782.02,"end":4784.02,"text":"還是靠代理老師去撐住"},{"start":4784.02,"end":4786.02,"text":"所以其實"},{"start":4786.02,"end":4788.02,"text":"我們想解決的不是單純的"},{"start":4788.02,"end":4790.02,"text":"把資格放寬"},{"start":4790.02,"end":4792.02,"text":"而是希望把這個禁用的彈性"},{"start":4792.02,"end":4794.02,"text":"跟專業 培力"},{"start":4794.02,"end":4796.02,"text":"要綁在一起"},{"start":4796.02,"end":4798.02,"text":"讓學校可以依現場的需要來做"},{"start":4798.02,"end":4800.02,"text":"公開徵選"},{"start":4800.02,"end":4802.02,"text":"那中央就是希望說要做全額補助"},{"start":4802.02,"end":4804.02,"text":"第二專長"},{"start":4804.02,"end":4806.02,"text":"那地方要開設認證"},{"start":4806.02,"end":4808.02,"text":"研習 而且每一個"},{"start":4808.02,"end":4810.02,"text":"聘期都要做更新認證"},{"start":4810.02,"end":4812.02,"text":"那我個人是主張"},{"start":4812.02,"end":4814.02,"text":"六年後再建立一個"},{"start":4814.02,"end":4816.02,"text":"較長期的任用"},{"start":4816.02,"end":4818.02,"text":"或參加正式教師徵選的一個"},{"start":4818.02,"end":4820.02,"text":"提供這樣的路徑"},{"start":4820.02,"end":4822.02,"text":"所以在這個地方"},{"start":4822.02,"end":4824.02,"text":"就是希望說"},{"start":4824.02,"end":4826.02,"text":"我們也不是說因為偏鄉缺人"},{"start":4826.02,"end":4828.02,"text":"就什麼人都可以進來教室"},{"start":4828.02,"end":4830.02,"text":"而是說"},{"start":4830.02,"end":4832.02,"text":"我們要承認現場就已經"},{"start":4832.02,"end":4834.02,"text":"有一批有熱忱的"},{"start":4834.02,"end":4836.02,"text":"代理 專聘人力的"},{"start":4836.02,"end":4838.02,"text":"長期教學的這一些老師"},{"start":4838.02,"end":4840.02,"text":"那希望國家應該"},{"start":4840.02,"end":4842.02,"text":"對他們的專業"},{"start":4842.02,"end":4844.02,"text":"他們的熱忱 他們的成長"},{"start":4844.02,"end":4846.02,"text":"來去做負責任"},{"start":4846.02,"end":4848.02,"text":"讓他們取得一個專長"},{"start":4848.02,"end":4850.02,"text":"接受認證跟累積職涯的"},{"start":4850.02,"end":4852.02,"text":"一個路徑能夠為"},{"start":4852.02,"end":4854.02,"text":"我們偏鄉留住有熱忱的"},{"start":4854.02,"end":4856.02,"text":"好老師"},{"start":4856.02,"end":4858.02,"text":"最後是不是就請"},{"start":4858.02,"end":4860.02,"text":"教育部來做一個回應"},{"start":4860.02,"end":4862.02,"text":"那我們再看怎麼處理 謝謝"},{"start":4864.02,"end":4866.02,"text":"謝謝昭偉 剛剛五位委員所提"},{"start":4866.02,"end":4868.02,"text":"大概就傾向在"},{"start":4868.02,"end":4870.02,"text":"兩點議題"},{"start":4870.02,"end":4872.02,"text":"比較集中的"},{"start":4872.02,"end":4874.02,"text":"第一個"},{"start":4874.02,"end":4876.02,"text":"原來專聘老師"},{"start":4876.02,"end":4878.02,"text":"是地方政府辦"},{"start":4878.02,"end":4880.02,"text":"那現在把它開放成"},{"start":4880.02,"end":4882.02,"text":"能不能夠學校自辦"},{"start":4882.02,"end":4884.02,"text":"另外一個開放是"},{"start":4884.02,"end":4886.02,"text":"原來要具教師證"},{"start":4886.02,"end":4888.02,"text":"能不能開放無教師證"},{"start":4888.02,"end":4890.02,"text":"那至於"},{"start":4890.02,"end":4892.02,"text":"郭委員"},{"start":4892.02,"end":4894.02,"text":"也有提到休課"},{"start":4894.02,"end":4896.02,"text":"那這些便利性"},{"start":4896.02,"end":4898.02,"text":"以及在地文化"},{"start":4898.02,"end":4900.02,"text":"所學能及用這一類的"},{"start":4900.02,"end":4902.02,"text":"附帶的建議"},{"start":4902.02,"end":4904.02,"text":"那我還是先集中在多數委員"},{"start":4904.02,"end":4906.02,"text":"認為的這兩個議題"},{"start":4906.02,"end":4908.02,"text":"怎麼來思考跟"},{"start":4908.02,"end":4910.02,"text":"讓它能夠活水流暢一點"},{"start":4910.02,"end":4912.02,"text":"首先跟大家"},{"start":4912.02,"end":4914.02,"text":"報告"},{"start":4914.02,"end":4916.02,"text":"當時院裡面"},{"start":4916.02,"end":4918.02,"text":"想在正式老師到代理"},{"start":4918.02,"end":4920.02,"text":"老師間設計"},{"start":4920.02,"end":4922.02,"text":"一個專聘老師"},{"start":4922.02,"end":4924.02,"text":"看看原條文的"},{"start":4924.02,"end":4926.02,"text":"誘因 當時107年"},{"start":4926.02,"end":4928.02,"text":"應該是夠的"},{"start":4928.02,"end":4930.02,"text":"但是在疫情後"},{"start":4930.02,"end":4932.02,"text":"各縣市分分開"},{"start":4932.02,"end":4934.02,"text":"正式老師之後"},{"start":4934.02,"end":4936.02,"text":"那顯然具教師證者"},{"start":4936.02,"end":4938.02,"text":"他可能優先"},{"start":4938.02,"end":4940.02,"text":"會去考正式老師"},{"start":4940.02,"end":4942.02,"text":"即便不是"},{"start":4942.02,"end":4944.02,"text":"正式老師"},{"start":4944.02,"end":4946.02,"text":"他是代理老師 他可能相較於"},{"start":4946.02,"end":4948.02,"text":"專聘老師的"},{"start":4948.02,"end":4950.02,"text":"都會提及到代理老師"},{"start":4950.02,"end":4952.02,"text":"也許他也會衡量"},{"start":4952.02,"end":4954.02,"text":"方便性等等 交通的便利性"},{"start":4954.02,"end":4956.02,"text":"所以在不是開"},{"start":4956.02,"end":4958.02,"text":"正式的情況下"},{"start":4958.02,"end":4960.02,"text":"專聘老師"},{"start":4960.02,"end":4962.02,"text":"在以往的年代可能還有一點誘因"},{"start":4962.02,"end":4964.02,"text":"但很快的 修法後"},{"start":4964.02,"end":4966.02,"text":"又疫情 然後疫情後"},{"start":4966.02,"end":4968.02,"text":"開正式老師之後"},{"start":4968.02,"end":4970.02,"text":"專聘老師他就沒有銜接上"},{"start":4970.02,"end":4972.02,"text":"那一個當時設計的"},{"start":4972.02,"end":4974.02,"text":"那個道理了"},{"start":4974.02,"end":4976.02,"text":"所以現在在解決"},{"start":4976.02,"end":4978.02,"text":"偏鄉地區的"},{"start":4978.02,"end":4980.02,"text":"最好方法"},{"start":4980.02,"end":4982.02,"text":"在各位提之前"},{"start":4982.02,"end":4984.02,"text":"我要跟大家報告"},{"start":4984.02,"end":4986.02,"text":"這四年來我們看到的是"},{"start":4986.02,"end":4988.02,"text":"就是開正式缺"},{"start":4988.02,"end":4990.02,"text":"與其"},{"start":4990.02,"end":4992.02,"text":"把一樣的缺"},{"start":4992.02,"end":4994.02,"text":"放成不管叫"},{"start":4994.02,"end":4996.02,"text":"專聘"},{"start":4996.02,"end":4998.02,"text":"比較沒有聘期的"},{"start":4998.02,"end":5000.02,"text":"限制的代理"},{"start":5000.02,"end":5002.02,"text":"何不就是正式"},{"start":5002.02,"end":5004.02,"text":"何況在這麼多年來"},{"start":5004.02,"end":5006.02,"text":"代理老師的整體的"},{"start":5006.02,"end":5008.02,"text":"他的聘期的改善"},{"start":5008.02,"end":5010.02,"text":"也已經變成全年期了"},{"start":5010.02,"end":5012.02,"text":"所以就地方政府的付出來講"},{"start":5012.02,"end":5014.02,"text":"他也不是以前的十個月"},{"start":5014.02,"end":5016.02,"text":"他要也是跟正式老師"},{"start":5016.02,"end":5018.02,"text":"是十二個月"},{"start":5018.02,"end":5020.02,"text":"所以就地方政府來講"},{"start":5020.02,"end":5022.02,"text":"現在又滿足家長的期待"},{"start":5022.02,"end":5024.02,"text":"又覺得"},{"start":5024.02,"end":5026.02,"text":"他的缺一樣"},{"start":5026.02,"end":5028.02,"text":"只是要放專聘或是放正式"},{"start":5028.02,"end":5030.02,"text":"所以現在是放正式"},{"start":5030.02,"end":5032.02,"text":"那我們也認同"},{"start":5032.02,"end":5034.02,"text":"放正式是相對比較理想"},{"start":5036.02,"end":5038.02,"text":"因此各位今天"},{"start":5038.02,"end":5040.02,"text":"所提的很好的建議"},{"start":5040.02,"end":5042.02,"text":"或許我們可以"},{"start":5042.02,"end":5044.02,"text":"先在我那個前提跟大家報告之後"},{"start":5044.02,"end":5046.02,"text":"是不是容許我們"},{"start":5046.02,"end":5048.02,"text":"跟地方政府還有尤其是基層老師"},{"start":5048.02,"end":5050.02,"text":"因為"},{"start":5050.02,"end":5052.02,"text":"這個如果他原來"},{"start":5052.02,"end":5054.02,"text":"就是正式老師"},{"start":5054.02,"end":5056.02,"text":"可能就學校來講"},{"start":5056.02,"end":5058.02,"text":"這個學校十一個缺"},{"start":5058.02,"end":5060.02,"text":"他應該是盡量"},{"start":5060.02,"end":5062.02,"text":"十個缺都是正式的會比較好"},{"start":5062.02,"end":5064.02,"text":"他不會拿六個缺"},{"start":5064.02,"end":5066.02,"text":"三分之一左右"},{"start":5066.02,"end":5068.02,"text":"四個缺來做專聘"},{"start":5068.02,"end":5070.02,"text":"那道理上"},{"start":5070.02,"end":5072.02,"text":"目前已經發展成這樣"},{"start":5072.02,"end":5074.02,"text":"所以如果現在"},{"start":5074.02,"end":5076.02,"text":"要修法我怕"},{"start":5076.02,"end":5078.02,"text":"等一會兒連同第八條"},{"start":5078.02,"end":5080.02,"text":"會有一些"},{"start":5080.02,"end":5082.02,"text":"在目前現場運用"},{"start":5082.02,"end":5084.02,"text":"以正式老師來解決"},{"start":5084.02,"end":5086.02,"text":"是比較正辦的情況下"},{"start":5086.02,"end":5088.02,"text":"那會不會"},{"start":5088.02,"end":5090.02,"text":"我們現在的開放反而變成"},{"start":5090.02,"end":5092.02,"text":"另外有一些人覺得"},{"start":5092.02,"end":5094.02,"text":"他會不會變成是"},{"start":5094.02,"end":5096.02,"text":"開了一個"},{"start":5096.02,"end":5098.02,"text":"不一定是現在需要的"},{"start":5098.02,"end":5100.02,"text":"那麼開的路開的門"},{"start":5100.02,"end":5102.02,"text":"那他需要的是正式"},{"start":5102.02,"end":5104.02,"text":"接著就是委員可能會看到"},{"start":5104.02,"end":5106.02,"text":"正式裡面可能會有幾個缺"},{"start":5106.02,"end":5108.02,"text":"會比較難拼到的"},{"start":5108.02,"end":5110.02,"text":"那個"},{"start":5110.02,"end":5112.02,"text":"到底確我們要好好的"},{"start":5112.02,"end":5114.02,"text":"現在我們每週在跟地方政府盤點"},{"start":5114.02,"end":5116.02,"text":"就是在幫縣市解決這個"},{"start":5116.02,"end":5118.02,"text":"已經是正式的"},{"start":5118.02,"end":5120.02,"text":"後來難免還是要代理"},{"start":5120.02,"end":5122.02,"text":"所以我簡單的結論說"},{"start":5122.02,"end":5124.02,"text":"委員所提的"},{"start":5124.02,"end":5126.02,"text":"開放由學校拼"},{"start":5126.02,"end":5128.02,"text":"這個可能"},{"start":5128.02,"end":5130.02,"text":"以目前"},{"start":5130.02,"end":5132.02,"text":"學校規模那麼小"},{"start":5132.02,"end":5134.02,"text":"那他的教品會組成"},{"start":5134.02,"end":5136.02,"text":"能不能夠"},{"start":5136.02,"end":5138.02,"text":"復刻得了"},{"start":5138.02,"end":5140.02,"text":"那原來地方是幫他辦的"},{"start":5140.02,"end":5142.02,"text":"那這個要不要這樣改"},{"start":5142.02,"end":5144.02,"text":"那原來據教師證的"},{"start":5144.02,"end":5146.02,"text":"那其實地方政府"},{"start":5146.02,"end":5148.02,"text":"也已經在為同一個學校"},{"start":5148.02,"end":5150.02,"text":"要考正式"},{"start":5150.02,"end":5152.02,"text":"結果有另外一個管道叫專聘的"},{"start":5152.02,"end":5154.02,"text":"他是無教師證"},{"start":5154.02,"end":5156.02,"text":"同一個學校"},{"start":5156.02,"end":5158.02,"text":"有一個缺他禁用了正式"},{"start":5158.02,"end":5160.02,"text":"然後另外一個缺是無教師證的"},{"start":5160.02,"end":5162.02,"text":"專聘老師或代理老師"},{"start":5162.02,"end":5164.02,"text":"這樣對家長的期待"},{"start":5164.02,"end":5166.02,"text":"我怕不一定不好"},{"start":5166.02,"end":5168.02,"text":"因為以前我們綁教師證"},{"start":5168.02,"end":5170.02,"text":"我們都會說至少經過試陪"},{"start":5170.02,"end":5172.02,"text":"現在如果連教師證也沒有的話"},{"start":5172.02,"end":5174.02,"text":"會不會同一個學校"},{"start":5174.02,"end":5176.02,"text":"有一個老師是正式"},{"start":5176.02,"end":5178.02,"text":"然後也是現在當道"},{"start":5178.02,"end":5180.02,"text":"要這樣子開缺的"},{"start":5180.02,"end":5182.02,"text":"結果另外一個是無教師證的專聘老師"},{"start":5182.02,"end":5184.02,"text":"這樣我們"},{"start":5184.02,"end":5186.02,"text":"會有顧慮因此"},{"start":5186.02,"end":5188.02,"text":"是不是建議保留能夠讓我們"},{"start":5188.02,"end":5190.02,"text":"跟基層學校還有地方政府"},{"start":5190.02,"end":5192.02,"text":"多談一談今天"},{"start":5192.02,"end":5194.02,"text":"委員所提示的兩個方向謝謝"},{"start":5194.02,"end":5196.02,"text":"請教一下那個署長"},{"start":5196.02,"end":5198.02,"text":"因為你還沒有回應到"},{"start":5198.02,"end":5200.02,"text":"我們就是關心那個無證教師的問題"},{"start":5200.02,"end":5202.02,"text":"所以我們才會希望說"},{"start":5202.02,"end":5204.02,"text":"要全額補助地方主管機關"},{"start":5204.02,"end":5206.02,"text":"去開設這個無證專聘教師的認證"},{"start":5208.02,"end":5210.02,"text":"我們先請"},{"start":5210.02,"end":5212.02,"text":"好來"},{"start":5212.02,"end":5214.02,"text":"我們先談一下那個第八條是在處理"},{"start":5214.02,"end":5216.02,"text":"無證老師的進修的事情"},{"start":5216.02,"end":5218.02,"text":"第八條在處理無證老師"},{"start":5218.02,"end":5220.02,"text":"但我們可以一併先"},{"start":5220.02,"end":5222.02,"text":"討論這個事情"},{"start":5222.02,"end":5224.02,"text":"目前剛"},{"start":5224.02,"end":5226.02,"text":"比較簡單的就是"},{"start":5226.02,"end":5228.02,"text":"郭委員有提到說能不能"},{"start":5228.02,"end":5230.02,"text":"用遠距或彈性的方式"},{"start":5230.02,"end":5232.02,"text":"目前二專班其實最大的"},{"start":5232.02,"end":5234.02,"text":"遠距的空間是三分之二"},{"start":5234.02,"end":5236.02,"text":"所以還是有一些"},{"start":5236.02,"end":5238.02,"text":"實作課程需要面對面"},{"start":5238.02,"end":5240.02,"text":"那一塊會在函數下進行"},{"start":5240.02,"end":5242.02,"text":"那如果你一般的"},{"start":5242.02,"end":5244.02,"text":"老師如果尤其偏鄉的"},{"start":5244.02,"end":5246.02,"text":"老師他本來有證在進修"},{"start":5246.02,"end":5248.02,"text":"二專長是會幫助他"},{"start":5248.02,"end":5250.02,"text":"更多的教證"},{"start":5250.02,"end":5252.02,"text":"機會的所以"},{"start":5252.02,"end":5254.02,"text":"也很希望一併考慮這個事情"},{"start":5254.02,"end":5256.02,"text":"就是我們很希望專聘老師"},{"start":5256.02,"end":5258.02,"text":"留在偏鄉有證的專聘老師"},{"start":5258.02,"end":5260.02,"text":"留在偏鄉如果大開"},{"start":5260.02,"end":5262.02,"text":"就是說"},{"start":5262.02,"end":5264.02,"text":"先不談無證的就是"},{"start":5264.02,"end":5266.02,"text":"大開學校自聘的有證"},{"start":5266.02,"end":5268.02,"text":"的代理老師因為目前的"},{"start":5268.02,"end":5270.02,"text":"人數也蠻多的"},{"start":5270.02,"end":5272.02,"text":"就是在偏鄉有證的代理"},{"start":5272.02,"end":5274.02,"text":"老師人數蠻多的"},{"start":5274.02,"end":5276.02,"text":"所以如果是不用"},{"start":5276.02,"end":5278.02,"text":"專聘的這個名額"},{"start":5278.02,"end":5280.02,"text":"大量的開放"},{"start":5280.02,"end":5282.02,"text":"然後去進修二專"},{"start":5282.02,"end":5284.02,"text":"公費進修二專的這個部分"},{"start":5284.02,"end":5286.02,"text":"政策配套是做得到的"},{"start":5286.02,"end":5288.02,"text":"但是要考慮那一塊"},{"start":5288.02,"end":5290.02,"text":"會不會增加偏鄉專聘老師"},{"start":5290.02,"end":5294.02,"text":"有證老師專聘移動的這件事情"},{"start":5294.02,"end":5296.02,"text":"那至於無證代理老師的部分"},{"start":5296.02,"end":5298.02,"text":"在第八條會處理"},{"start":5298.02,"end":5300.02,"text":"但是我們大概的方向是這樣的"},{"start":5300.02,"end":5302.02,"text":"因為施培每年還是有培育"},{"start":5302.02,"end":5304.02,"text":"一些就是"},{"start":5304.02,"end":5306.02,"text":"有證的老師每年大概"},{"start":5306.02,"end":5308.02,"text":"新的發證量是七千"},{"start":5308.02,"end":5310.02,"text":"米然後在"},{"start":5310.02,"end":5312.02,"text":"實際的儲備量所謂儲備量"},{"start":5312.02,"end":5314.02,"text":"指的是近三年都有在"},{"start":5314.02,"end":5316.02,"text":"考教證的活躍的人"},{"start":5316.02,"end":5318.02,"text":"就是他是有證但是他"},{"start":5318.02,"end":5320.02,"text":"很激起的想要爭取"},{"start":5320.02,"end":5322.02,"text":"正式老師的資格的人"},{"start":5322.02,"end":5324.02,"text":"大概國小這個領域有"},{"start":5324.02,"end":5326.02,"text":"一萬三千人那國中大概"},{"start":5326.02,"end":5328.02,"text":"也有七八千人左右的"},{"start":5328.02,"end":5330.02,"text":"這樣的一個活躍儲備量"},{"start":5330.02,"end":5332.02,"text":"那以這樣的狀態來說"},{"start":5332.02,"end":5334.02,"text":"本來的第八條是處理"},{"start":5334.02,"end":5338.02,"text":"縣市所聘任的這一塊的"},{"start":5338.02,"end":5340.02,"text":"無證的代理老師有公費進修"},{"start":5340.02,"end":5342.02,"text":"的資格那如果"},{"start":5342.02,"end":5344.02,"text":"大量開放這些"},{"start":5344.02,"end":5346.02,"text":"有一定年資"},{"start":5346.02,"end":5348.02,"text":"或者是符合那個"},{"start":5348.02,"end":5350.02,"text":"第八條對象開放給"},{"start":5350.02,"end":5352.02,"text":"學校自聘的無證的代理老師"},{"start":5352.02,"end":5354.02,"text":"做公費進修的話"},{"start":5354.02,"end":5356.02,"text":"同樣也會面臨剛剛講的"},{"start":5356.02,"end":5358.02,"text":"問題就是他一旦取證了"},{"start":5358.02,"end":5360.02,"text":"之後其實還是"},{"start":5360.02,"end":5362.02,"text":"很有機會往外移動"},{"start":5362.02,"end":5364.02,"text":"但是我們在這一塊也不是因為"},{"start":5364.02,"end":5366.02,"text":"這件事情不能"},{"start":5366.02,"end":5368.02,"text":"做但是我們其實在原來"},{"start":5368.02,"end":5370.02,"text":"的施培法的八條之一就有"},{"start":5370.02,"end":5372.02,"text":"開放在政策評估"},{"start":5372.02,"end":5374.02,"text":"有需求的地方可以做學士"},{"start":5374.02,"end":5376.02,"text":"後班的自費開放"},{"start":5376.02,"end":5378.02,"text":"去做進修的機會"},{"start":5378.02,"end":5380.02,"text":"那我們這兩年也開放了一定"},{"start":5380.02,"end":5382.02,"text":"的名額同時也去盤點"},{"start":5382.02,"end":5384.02,"text":"偏鄉有一定服務年資的"},{"start":5384.02,"end":5386.02,"text":"代理老師的需求"},{"start":5386.02,"end":5388.02,"text":"目前盤起來大概有"},{"start":5388.02,"end":5390.02,"text":"七八百人有這樣的"},{"start":5390.02,"end":5392.02,"text":"需求當然我們實際的開"},{"start":5392.02,"end":5394.02,"text":"班量就是以自費開班的量"},{"start":5394.02,"end":5396.02,"text":"也有到達六百多人"},{"start":5396.02,"end":5398.02,"text":"所以以這樣子的一個"},{"start":5398.02,"end":5400.02,"text":"政策的推動跟我們目前的"},{"start":5400.02,"end":5402.02,"text":"本來有修法狀態下的實施"},{"start":5402.02,"end":5404.02,"text":"其實是在橫屏"},{"start":5404.02,"end":5406.02,"text":"把那個年資綁在前面"},{"start":5406.02,"end":5408.02,"text":"然後用自費的方式去"},{"start":5408.02,"end":5410.02,"text":"吸引他們或是給他們一個"},{"start":5410.02,"end":5412.02,"text":"進修的機會來解決"},{"start":5412.02,"end":5414.02,"text":"偏鄉代理老師無政代理老師"},{"start":5414.02,"end":5416.02,"text":"進修的機會跟他的"},{"start":5416.02,"end":5418.02,"text":"專業成長的部分以上"},{"start":5418.02,"end":5420.02,"text":"好 葛國鈞委員請"},{"start":5420.02,"end":5422.02,"text":"好我想謝謝官員的回覆"},{"start":5422.02,"end":5424.02,"text":"教育部同仁回覆"},{"start":5424.02,"end":5426.02,"text":"那我想其實我們在講的一個是"},{"start":5426.02,"end":5428.02,"text":"新幣一個是新立一個"},{"start":5428.02,"end":5430.02,"text":"新立一個防避啦"},{"start":5430.02,"end":5432.02,"text":"如果真的要防避那都不要拼"},{"start":5432.02,"end":5434.02,"text":"就不會有老師的問題我覺得不可能是這樣"},{"start":5434.02,"end":5436.02,"text":"那你開了一個政事的區"},{"start":5436.02,"end":5438.02,"text":"你說最好是政事的可是現在是"},{"start":5438.02,"end":5440.02,"text":"非偏遠地區學校的政事"},{"start":5440.02,"end":5442.02,"text":"區都補不滿了"},{"start":5442.02,"end":5444.02,"text":"那誰真的是要"},{"start":5444.02,"end":5446.02,"text":"哇這個特殊條件的"},{"start":5446.02,"end":5448.02,"text":"對啊就是你連城市"},{"start":5448.02,"end":5450.02,"text":"裡面的政事區都補不滿了"},{"start":5450.02,"end":5452.02,"text":"那我們在講說"},{"start":5452.02,"end":5454.02,"text":"我們偏遠地區要"},{"start":5454.02,"end":5456.02,"text":"一定還是要固守在政事"},{"start":5456.02,"end":5458.02,"text":"就是說希望"},{"start":5458.02,"end":5460.02,"text":"不會能夠找到解答這一題的解答"},{"start":5460.02,"end":5462.02,"text":"其實武麗華委員的版本"},{"start":5462.02,"end":5464.02,"text":"跟本席的版本是非常接近的"},{"start":5464.02,"end":5466.02,"text":"前面有提到這個"},{"start":5466.02,"end":5468.02,"text":"各校教師評審委員會"},{"start":5468.02,"end":5470.02,"text":"也可以來參與"},{"start":5470.02,"end":5472.02,"text":"第二個後面有提到專案聘任"},{"start":5472.02,"end":5474.02,"text":"代理教師本席"},{"start":5474.02,"end":5476.02,"text":"的這個部分在文字上都跟招委"},{"start":5476.02,"end":5478.02,"text":"是一樣的那這其實也就是"},{"start":5478.02,"end":5480.02,"text":"沒有政治的色彩"},{"start":5480.02,"end":5482.02,"text":"沒有政治的議題也是偏向"},{"start":5482.02,"end":5484.02,"text":"都在等的我覺得第一個"},{"start":5484.02,"end":5486.02,"text":"這一條我們能不能有部分文字就把它"},{"start":5486.02,"end":5488.02,"text":"修正進去了第二個"},{"start":5488.02,"end":5490.02,"text":"這個剛剛"},{"start":5490.02,"end":5492.02,"text":"也有同仁提到"},{"start":5492.02,"end":5494.02,"text":"第八條其實也就"},{"start":5494.02,"end":5496.02,"text":"在補足第七條的問題"},{"start":5496.02,"end":5498.02,"text":"第七條是難招募你招"},{"start":5498.02,"end":5500.02,"text":"到了還要把它留下來這個講得很好"},{"start":5500.02,"end":5502.02,"text":"所以本席的提案"},{"start":5502.02,"end":5504.02,"text":"版本的第八條第一項也"},{"start":5504.02,"end":5506.02,"text":"主張代理教師如果表現"},{"start":5506.02,"end":5508.02,"text":"優良經教評會審查通過者"},{"start":5508.02,"end":5510.02,"text":"應準用專任"},{"start":5510.02,"end":5512.02,"text":"教師之規定辦理成績考"},{"start":5512.02,"end":5514.02,"text":"並依考核結果得獎金"},{"start":5514.02,"end":5516.02,"text":"這其實就是一個補足"},{"start":5516.02,"end":5518.02,"text":"這就是一個折衷他雖然"},{"start":5518.02,"end":5520.02,"text":"不是正式教師但他做得好"},{"start":5520.02,"end":5522.02,"text":"我們有個機制把它留下來"},{"start":5522.02,"end":5524.02,"text":"也確實如果你沒有第八條"},{"start":5524.02,"end":5526.02,"text":"跟著修你只修"},{"start":5526.02,"end":5528.02,"text":"第七條也不對"},{"start":5528.02,"end":5530.02,"text":"所以我覺得這個是希望"},{"start":5530.02,"end":5532.02,"text":"這個部分文字修正的真的都很少"},{"start":5532.02,"end":5534.02,"text":"是不是我們今天能夠"},{"start":5534.02,"end":5536.02,"text":"有點成績這個成績不是"},{"start":5536.02,"end":5538.02,"text":"給我們的是給偏遠"},{"start":5538.02,"end":5540.02,"text":"地區學校的那另外"},{"start":5540.02,"end":5542.02,"text":"本席的第八條第二項後半"},{"start":5542.02,"end":5544.02,"text":"現職代理教師參加"},{"start":5544.02,"end":5546.02,"text":"師資類科的"},{"start":5546.02,"end":5548.02,"text":"這個師資職前教育課程的部分"},{"start":5548.02,"end":5550.02,"text":"這個剛剛同仁有提到"},{"start":5550.02,"end":5552.02,"text":"這個課程時間以及內容"},{"start":5552.02,"end":5554.02,"text":"考量可以為偏遠地區"},{"start":5554.02,"end":5556.02,"text":"的教師來給你調整"},{"start":5556.02,"end":5558.02,"text":"也我本席的也新增"},{"start":5558.02,"end":5560.02,"text":"第三項畏懼教師"},{"start":5560.02,"end":5562.02,"text":"資格之現職教師"},{"start":5562.02,"end":5564.02,"text":"這也回應了"},{"start":5564.02,"end":5566.02,"text":"五立華召委剛剛所提到"},{"start":5566.02,"end":5568.02,"text":"我們在偏遠地區"},{"start":5568.02,"end":5570.02,"text":"的學校現場"},{"start":5570.02,"end":5572.02,"text":"就有一批這麼棒的老師"},{"start":5572.02,"end":5574.02,"text":"我們留不住還在"},{"start":5574.02,"end":5576.02,"text":"留師然後我們還在這裡"},{"start":5576.02,"end":5578.02,"text":"吹著冷氣說要正式"},{"start":5578.02,"end":5580.02,"text":"教師要有證照"},{"start":5580.02,"end":5582.02,"text":"這個我覺得就真的"},{"start":5582.02,"end":5584.02,"text":"會跟現場真的對不起來"},{"start":5584.02,"end":5586.02,"text":"了那本席的第三項"},{"start":5586.02,"end":5588.02,"text":"就提到畏懼教師"},{"start":5588.02,"end":5590.02,"text":"由主管機關公開支援者"},{"start":5590.02,"end":5592.02,"text":"由中央主管機關全合補助"},{"start":5592.02,"end":5594.02,"text":"休息吃吃之前"},{"start":5594.02,"end":5596.02,"text":"教育課程就是像剛剛提到的"},{"start":5596.02,"end":5598.02,"text":"不管你是碩班的還是什麼樣的"},{"start":5598.02,"end":5600.02,"text":"一個課程那這個部分"},{"start":5600.02,"end":5602.02,"text":"也跟各位委員同僚報告"},{"start":5602.02,"end":5604.02,"text":"就是教育部跟"},{"start":5604.02,"end":5606.02,"text":"在前天有跟本席"},{"start":5606.02,"end":5608.02,"text":"的辦公室溝通本席辦公室"},{"start":5608.02,"end":5610.02,"text":"也非常就是"},{"start":5610.02,"end":5612.02,"text":"真的是用盡"},{"start":5612.02,"end":5614.02,"text":"全力的來表達那這些"},{"start":5614.02,"end":5616.02,"text":"那這個教育部有表示"},{"start":5616.02,"end":5618.02,"text":"我們在第七條"},{"start":5618.02,"end":5620.02,"text":"或者是第八條的部分其實"},{"start":5620.02,"end":5622.02,"text":"很多修法內容都跟現況相符"},{"start":5622.02,"end":5624.02,"text":"尤其第八條"},{"start":5624.02,"end":5626.02,"text":"那其實就很好嘛"},{"start":5626.02,"end":5628.02,"text":"那是不是就請教育部支持本席的"},{"start":5628.02,"end":5630.02,"text":"或者我們有同仁都有提到的"},{"start":5630.02,"end":5632.02,"text":"類似概念的修法版本"},{"start":5632.02,"end":5634.02,"text":"我們今天就把文字把它修正進去"},{"start":5634.02,"end":5636.02,"text":"那我覺得這個是"},{"start":5636.02,"end":5638.02,"text":"很重要那另外第十九條"},{"start":5638.02,"end":5640.02,"text":"之一雖然我們現在還在"},{"start":5640.02,"end":5642.02,"text":"第八條但一樣學校"},{"start":5642.02,"end":5644.02,"text":"也要留得住"},{"start":5644.02,"end":5646.02,"text":"所以呢這個資源怎麼分配"},{"start":5646.02,"end":5648.02,"text":"那這個中央我們的"},{"start":5648.02,"end":5650.02,"text":"新增條文是針對第一項"},{"start":5650.02,"end":5652.02,"text":"中央主管機關為提升偏遠教育"},{"start":5652.02,"end":5654.02,"text":"偏遠地區之教育水準"},{"start":5654.02,"end":5656.02,"text":"因鼓勵並補助地方主管機關"},{"start":5656.02,"end":5658.02,"text":"設立區域教育"},{"start":5658.02,"end":5660.02,"text":"資源中心對偏遠地區"},{"start":5660.02,"end":5662.02,"text":"學校提供課程與教學"},{"start":5662.02,"end":5664.02,"text":"之研究及行政資源"},{"start":5664.02,"end":5666.02,"text":"不只要教他做一個"},{"start":5666.02,"end":5668.02,"text":"好老師我們要協助他"},{"start":5668.02,"end":5670.02,"text":"減輕負擔而且我們提出的是"},{"start":5670.02,"end":5672.02,"text":"得彩公司協力的方式"},{"start":5672.02,"end":5674.02,"text":"設置如果你中央跟"},{"start":5674.02,"end":5676.02,"text":"地方不好分分不清"},{"start":5676.02,"end":5678.02,"text":"或大家都想搶著出錢"},{"start":5678.02,"end":5680.02,"text":"或者大家都這個"},{"start":5680.02,"end":5682.02,"text":"這個這個很自走"},{"start":5682.02,"end":5684.02,"text":"那其實"},{"start":5684.02,"end":5686.02,"text":"這個會不會公司協力是"},{"start":5686.02,"end":5688.02,"text":"一種方式那這個第十九條"},{"start":5688.02,"end":5690.02,"text":"之一這個也是七八條的"},{"start":5690.02,"end":5692.02,"text":"配套我們有跟教育部"},{"start":5692.02,"end":5694.02,"text":"的這個單位溝通"},{"start":5694.02,"end":5696.02,"text":"其實教育部看起來也是能夠"},{"start":5696.02,"end":5698.02,"text":"跟我們達成共識所以我是希望說"},{"start":5698.02,"end":5700.02,"text":"能不能今天至少七八"},{"start":5700.02,"end":5702.02,"text":"還有第十九條之一"},{"start":5702.02,"end":5704.02,"text":"其實我們都很努力的溝通"},{"start":5704.02,"end":5706.02,"text":"教育部的同仁也很努力的跟我們來"},{"start":5706.02,"end":5708.02,"text":"討論都是有共識喔"},{"start":5708.02,"end":5710.02,"text":"然後或者我跟吳立華"},{"start":5710.02,"end":5712.02,"text":"也是有共識喔我們今天可不可以不要"},{"start":5712.02,"end":5714.02,"text":"都不修正"},{"start":5714.02,"end":5716.02,"text":"或都保留我覺得這樣"},{"start":5716.02,"end":5718.02,"text":"可能也不太好"},{"start":5718.02,"end":5720.02,"text":"另外第十三條之一一樣學校"},{"start":5720.02,"end":5722.02,"text":"老師留住了學校"},{"start":5722.02,"end":5724.02,"text":"有要合併停辦"},{"start":5724.02,"end":5726.02,"text":"我們會提一個附帶決議以上"},{"start":5726.02,"end":5728.02,"text":"好那我們再聽羅志強委員"},{"start":5728.02,"end":5730.02,"text":"陳培儀委員羅志強委員"},{"start":5730.02,"end":5732.02,"text":"先舉手然後我們來討論一下"},{"start":5732.02,"end":5734.02,"text":"是要做文字修正還是"},{"start":5734.02,"end":5736.02,"text":"做暫時保留來請"},{"start":5736.02,"end":5740.02,"text":"我想我們這個長期來偏鄉的老師招募困難"},{"start":5740.02,"end":5742.02,"text":"那教室流動率高"},{"start":5742.02,"end":5744.02,"text":"所以造成偏鄉的一個教育品質不穩定"},{"start":5744.02,"end":5746.02,"text":"這應該是大家的共識"},{"start":5746.02,"end":5748.02,"text":"所以這次的修法當中"},{"start":5748.02,"end":5750.02,"text":"我們也是希望能夠"},{"start":5750.02,"end":5752.02,"text":"用解決問題為導向"},{"start":5752.02,"end":5754.02,"text":"來去思考我們的修法"},{"start":5754.02,"end":5756.02,"text":"到底怎麼樣去"},{"start":5756.02,"end":5758.02,"text":"把現在目前的教育現場的問題"},{"start":5758.02,"end":5760.02,"text":"把它解決"},{"start":5760.02,"end":5762.02,"text":"所以說本席在"},{"start":5762.02,"end":5764.02,"text":"這個我們的第七條"},{"start":5764.02,"end":5766.02,"text":"有提出的修正就主要是"},{"start":5766.02,"end":5768.02,"text":"針對一個合格的"},{"start":5768.02,"end":5770.02,"text":"代理教師"},{"start":5770.02,"end":5772.02,"text":"那他在服務成績優良"},{"start":5772.02,"end":5774.02,"text":"也經過教師評審委員會"},{"start":5774.02,"end":5776.02,"text":"審查通過後"},{"start":5776.02,"end":5778.02,"text":"那最多只能在同一學校"},{"start":5778.02,"end":5780.02,"text":"續聘兩次"},{"start":5780.02,"end":5782.02,"text":"那在這個制度之下你就發現"},{"start":5782.02,"end":5784.02,"text":"重新招募"},{"start":5784.02,"end":5786.02,"text":"不但是會造成資源已經吃緊的"},{"start":5786.02,"end":5788.02,"text":"偏鄉學校更多的行政資源的耗費"},{"start":5788.02,"end":5790.02,"text":"那原先熟悉該"},{"start":5790.02,"end":5792.02,"text":"校環境的教師"},{"start":5792.02,"end":5794.02,"text":"他離開也會影響教學的持續性"},{"start":5794.02,"end":5796.02,"text":"那這也是今年全國教育局處"},{"start":5796.02,"end":5798.02,"text":"長會議中"},{"start":5798.02,"end":5800.02,"text":"地方政府的新生"},{"start":5800.02,"end":5802.02,"text":"所以本席這邊是"},{"start":5802.02,"end":5804.02,"text":"直接講"},{"start":5804.02,"end":5806.02,"text":"有條件"},{"start":5806.02,"end":5808.02,"text":"如果公開甄選困難"},{"start":5808.02,"end":5810.02,"text":"導致沒有入取人員"},{"start":5810.02,"end":5812.02,"text":"則在續聘的次數"},{"start":5812.02,"end":5814.02,"text":"不受限制"},{"start":5814.02,"end":5816.02,"text":"所以也會匡定一個"},{"start":5816.02,"end":5818.02,"text":"前提條件發生以後"},{"start":5818.02,"end":5820.02,"text":"那我們就應該"},{"start":5820.02,"end":5822.02,"text":"那我們就應該要針對"},{"start":5822.02,"end":5824.02,"text":"所謂的在續聘這個部分"},{"start":5824.02,"end":5826.02,"text":"可能也要做一些相應的調整"},{"start":5826.02,"end":5828.02,"text":"那最主要目的還是希望能夠"},{"start":5828.02,"end":5830.02,"text":"先來穩定我們目前"},{"start":5830.02,"end":5832.02,"text":"這個教育現場"},{"start":5832.02,"end":5834.02,"text":"偏鄉教育"},{"start":5834.02,"end":5836.02,"text":"這個師資流動"},{"start":5836.02,"end":5838.02,"text":"包括說招募困難的這個困境"},{"start":5838.02,"end":5840.02,"text":"那希望能夠在第七條裡面"},{"start":5840.02,"end":5842.02,"text":"多一些彈性"},{"start":5842.02,"end":5844.02,"text":"然後"},{"start":5844.02,"end":5846.02,"text":"不會再受到法規限制他們的"},{"start":5846.02,"end":5848.02,"text":"代理教師的留任年限"},{"start":5848.02,"end":5850.02,"text":"那去影響到偏鄉學生的教育品質"},{"start":5850.02,"end":5852.02,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":5852.02,"end":5854.02,"text":"好請陳培宇委員"},{"start":5854.02,"end":5856.02,"text":"好我覺得第七條"},{"start":5856.02,"end":5858.02,"text":"連同剛剛葛如君委員"},{"start":5858.02,"end":5860.02,"text":"額外講到第八條"},{"start":5860.02,"end":5862.02,"text":"或者是後續的那個行政的部分"},{"start":5862.02,"end":5864.02,"text":"都十幾條的部分"},{"start":5864.02,"end":5866.02,"text":"我覺得現在最困難的是"},{"start":5866.02,"end":5868.02,"text":"大家對於正式教師跟代理教師"},{"start":5868.02,"end":5870.02,"text":"各自落在偏鄉跟城市的"},{"start":5870.02,"end":5872.02,"text":"招考狀態"},{"start":5872.02,"end":5874.02,"text":"報考狀態跟倒職率"},{"start":5874.02,"end":5876.02,"text":"還有離職率"},{"start":5876.02,"end":5878.02,"text":"其實大家的掌握好像都有點"},{"start":5878.02,"end":5880.02,"text":"很rough的狀態"},{"start":5880.02,"end":5882.02,"text":"但我要說我們之前辦公室不斷的"},{"start":5882.02,"end":5884.02,"text":"跟國教署所思"},{"start":5884.02,"end":5886.02,"text":"我們現在掌握到比較確切的數字"},{"start":5886.02,"end":5888.02,"text":"如果我有講錯再請國教署執政"},{"start":5888.02,"end":5890.02,"text":"第一個其實都會地區"},{"start":5890.02,"end":5892.02,"text":"都是在缺代理教師"},{"start":5892.02,"end":5894.02,"text":"比較多其實正式老師"},{"start":5894.02,"end":5896.02,"text":"國中也好國小也好幾乎"},{"start":5896.02,"end":5898.02,"text":"都是招考非常順利"},{"start":5898.02,"end":5900.02,"text":"只是沒有開成正式缺"},{"start":5900.02,"end":5902.02,"text":"開成代理教師的時候"},{"start":5902.02,"end":5904.02,"text":"報考率就很低"},{"start":5904.02,"end":5906.02,"text":"報考了之後倒職率也很低"},{"start":5906.02,"end":5908.02,"text":"這是第一個所以請大家搞清楚"},{"start":5908.02,"end":5910.02,"text":"都市地區跟偏鄉地區差別在這裡"},{"start":5910.02,"end":5912.02,"text":"再二回到偏鄉地區"},{"start":5912.02,"end":5914.02,"text":"偏鄉地區就如同剛剛署長"},{"start":5914.02,"end":5916.02,"text":"所說的在疫情後"},{"start":5916.02,"end":5918.02,"text":"各地方政府大家"},{"start":5918.02,"end":5920.02,"text":"對於高度的緣和管制"},{"start":5920.02,"end":5922.02,"text":"這件事情造成現場代理教師"},{"start":5922.02,"end":5924.02,"text":"流動率太大不滿"},{"start":5924.02,"end":5926.02,"text":"所以讓各個地方政府開始"},{"start":5926.02,"end":5928.02,"text":"開缺所以很多正式教師缺"},{"start":5928.02,"end":5930.02,"text":"也被補起來了所以開出來"},{"start":5930.02,"end":5932.02,"text":"的幾乎也是代理教師"},{"start":5932.02,"end":5934.02,"text":"缺那所以代理教師"},{"start":5934.02,"end":5936.02,"text":"在現場不論他是有沒有證"},{"start":5936.02,"end":5938.02,"text":"其實代理教師的權益是過去這兩三年"},{"start":5938.02,"end":5940.02,"text":"立法院一直在主張"},{"start":5940.02,"end":5942.02,"text":"那憲法法庭也給予相關的權利"},{"start":5942.02,"end":5944.02,"text":"所以代理教師相關福利我們是"},{"start":5944.02,"end":5946.02,"text":"補上了可是現在回過來看"},{"start":5946.02,"end":5948.02,"text":"當年我們在寫偏鄉條例的時候"},{"start":5948.02,"end":5950.02,"text":"我們多寫了這個所謂專任教師"},{"start":5950.02,"end":5952.02,"text":"專聘教師這件事情"},{"start":5952.02,"end":5954.02,"text":"其實再回到那個年代去"},{"start":5954.02,"end":5956.02,"text":"想107"},{"start":5956.02,"end":5958.02,"text":"107嘛對不對署長"},{"start":5958.02,"end":5960.02,"text":"107 108的時候我們在想"},{"start":5960.02,"end":5962.02,"text":"當大部分人都想留在都會"},{"start":5962.02,"end":5964.02,"text":"比較不願意去偏鄉或是偏鄉"},{"start":5964.02,"end":5966.02,"text":"可能當時也沒有開"},{"start":5966.02,"end":5968.02,"text":"那麼多代理確認是缺的時候"},{"start":5968.02,"end":5970.02,"text":"我們如何用更好的"},{"start":5970.02,"end":5972.02,"text":"師資穩定品質"},{"start":5972.02,"end":5974.02,"text":"留下偏鄉的老師所以出現了"},{"start":5974.02,"end":5976.02,"text":"這個所謂專聘教師"},{"start":5976.02,"end":5978.02,"text":"但是十年後現在回過頭來看"},{"start":5978.02,"end":5980.02,"text":"狀況已經大不如同"},{"start":5980.02,"end":5982.02,"text":"所以我認為吳立華委員"},{"start":5982.02,"end":5984.02,"text":"的提案或者是葛如君委員的提案"},{"start":5984.02,"end":5986.02,"text":"也要請教衛部去想我當然"},{"start":5986.02,"end":5988.02,"text":"知道每一年我們從各大施培"},{"start":5988.02,"end":5990.02,"text":"中心所培育出來的有證的老師數量"},{"start":5990.02,"end":5992.02,"text":"非常非常多而且"},{"start":5992.02,"end":5994.02,"text":"在現場的供應量其實"},{"start":5994.02,"end":5996.02,"text":"也是夠的可是並不代表"},{"start":5996.02,"end":5998.02,"text":"這些人都會進到偏鄉"},{"start":5998.02,"end":6000.02,"text":"去報考代理教師或是"},{"start":6000.02,"end":6002.02,"text":"去報考正式教師更不要"},{"start":6002.02,"end":6004.02,"text":"講有多少功費生"},{"start":6004.02,"end":6006.02,"text":"每年其實是自願還錢"},{"start":6006.02,"end":6008.02,"text":"給國家離開他被"},{"start":6008.02,"end":6010.02,"text":"發配的偏鄉學校"},{"start":6010.02,"end":6012.02,"text":"所以我認為回過頭來看整體"},{"start":6012.02,"end":6014.02,"text":"的考量不論是代理或是正式"},{"start":6014.02,"end":6016.02,"text":"不論是有沒有證的應該要去"},{"start":6016.02,"end":6018.02,"text":"想的是現在如何透過現在"},{"start":6018.02,"end":6020.02,"text":"有的制度叫做正式教師代理"},{"start":6020.02,"end":6022.02,"text":"教師專聘教師去補足我們所謂的"},{"start":6022.02,"end":6024.02,"text":"失之缺"},{"start":6024.02,"end":6026.02,"text":"那而不是說把都市跟"},{"start":6026.02,"end":6028.02,"text":"偏鄉的情況混為一談"},{"start":6028.02,"end":6030.02,"text":"所以當各位委員們"},{"start":6030.02,"end":6032.02,"text":"在講缺師缺師的時候"},{"start":6032.02,"end":6034.02,"text":"有缺老師的時候我覺得要講清楚"},{"start":6034.02,"end":6036.02,"text":"都會地區正式教師"},{"start":6036.02,"end":6038.02,"text":"幾乎沒有缺喔都會地區"},{"start":6038.02,"end":6040.02,"text":"缺的是大家不願意當代理教師"},{"start":6040.02,"end":6042.02,"text":"而這些有證的老師到了"},{"start":6042.02,"end":6044.02,"text":"偏鄉他們更不可能想當代理"},{"start":6044.02,"end":6046.02,"text":"教師所以導致於偏鄉現在看到"},{"start":6046.02,"end":6048.02,"text":"代理教師大部分是無證的問題"},{"start":6048.02,"end":6050.02,"text":"其實是緩緩相扣"},{"start":6050.02,"end":6052.02,"text":"因果相關喔以上謝謝"},{"start":6052.02,"end":6054.02,"text":"那當然我還是希望教育部去想一想"},{"start":6054.02,"end":6056.02,"text":"今天第七條詔偉也有提案"},{"start":6056.02,"end":6058.02,"text":"這麼多委員都有提案如果"},{"start":6058.02,"end":6060.02,"text":"今天這條不修"},{"start":6060.02,"end":6062.02,"text":"那我會說剛剛"},{"start":6062.02,"end":6064.02,"text":"我們也提出一個數字就是"},{"start":6064.02,"end":6066.02,"text":"專聘教師就沒有人要來考了"},{"start":6066.02,"end":6068.02,"text":"甚至考上離職率就跑掉了"},{"start":6068.02,"end":6070.02,"text":"那你第七條在整個偏鄉條例"},{"start":6070.02,"end":6072.02,"text":"就形同空殼喔"},{"start":6072.02,"end":6074.02,"text":"那形同空殼的情況下"},{"start":6074.02,"end":6076.02,"text":"真的可以應付未來我們持續發生的偏鄉"},{"start":6076.02,"end":6078.02,"text":"缺老師的問題嗎我也是打一個很大的問號"},{"start":6078.02,"end":6080.02,"text":"那要嘛他就這條"},{"start":6080.02,"end":6082.02,"text":"廢掉我們重新去想像一個"},{"start":6082.02,"end":6084.02,"text":"更適合偏鄉的制度而不是這一條"},{"start":6084.02,"end":6086.02,"text":"我們完全不修不動"},{"start":6086.02,"end":6088.02,"text":"他真的會變空殼我要提醒喔"},{"start":6088.02,"end":6090.02,"text":"好謝謝培育委員的"},{"start":6090.02,"end":6092.02,"text":"建議喔那大家的"},{"start":6092.02,"end":6094.02,"text":"發言如果結束"},{"start":6094.02,"end":6096.02,"text":"我們是不是來"},{"start":6096.02,"end":6098.02,"text":"還要不要聽一下教育部的意見"},{"start":6098.02,"end":6100.02,"text":"還是我們來決定要做"},{"start":6100.02,"end":6102.02,"text":"文字修正還是做保留"},{"start":6106.02,"end":6108.02,"text":"我們休息一下"},{"start":6108.02,"end":6110.02,"text":"跟大家報告一下"},{"start":6110.02,"end":6112.02,"text":"可能大家會覺得說"},{"start":6112.02,"end":6114.02,"text":"有一句我講的話可能大家不一定能理解"},{"start":6114.02,"end":6116.02,"text":"我在講開正式的時候"},{"start":6116.02,"end":6118.02,"text":"那個市區"},{"start":6118.02,"end":6120.02,"text":"地方政府"},{"start":6120.02,"end":6122.02,"text":"他是有權說"},{"start":6122.02,"end":6124.02,"text":"我不開正式"},{"start":6124.02,"end":6126.02,"text":"所以各位不要覺得說"},{"start":6126.02,"end":6128.02,"text":"是不是開個半天之後"},{"start":6128.02,"end":6130.02,"text":"還是會有代理不是這樣喔"},{"start":6130.02,"end":6132.02,"text":"就是你好像"},{"start":6132.02,"end":6134.02,"text":"就是會沒有人去補不滿"},{"start":6134.02,"end":6136.02,"text":"所以會轉成代理不是這樣喔"},{"start":6136.02,"end":6138.02,"text":"他開正式是"},{"start":6138.02,"end":6140.02,"text":"我要開正式"},{"start":6140.02,"end":6142.02,"text":"我有評估以後少子啦"},{"start":6142.02,"end":6144.02,"text":"病校有沒有等等的問題"},{"start":6144.02,"end":6146.02,"text":"所以我這個學校我給你開"},{"start":6146.02,"end":6148.02,"text":"幾個正式"},{"start":6148.02,"end":6150.02,"text":"他不是說一開始大家都正式"},{"start":6150.02,"end":6152.02,"text":"然後招招考不到所以"},{"start":6152.02,"end":6154.02,"text":"變成代理"},{"start":6154.02,"end":6156.02,"text":"他不是這個現象"},{"start":6156.02,"end":6158.02,"text":"正式的缺是被控制的"},{"start":6160.02,"end":6162.02,"text":"因此我們這邊在呼籲的是"},{"start":6162.02,"end":6164.02,"text":"在少子的考慮"},{"start":6164.02,"end":6166.02,"text":"或是在學生人數變化"},{"start":6166.02,"end":6168.02,"text":"還有這個地區的需求"},{"start":6168.02,"end":6170.02,"text":"尤其偏鄉"},{"start":6170.02,"end":6172.02,"text":"地方政府應該有權"},{"start":6172.02,"end":6174.02,"text":"為什麼他們這幾年"},{"start":6174.02,"end":6176.02,"text":"可以開六千個缺"},{"start":6176.02,"end":6178.02,"text":"那以前可以不開"},{"start":6178.02,"end":6180.02,"text":"那以前為什麼不開"},{"start":6180.02,"end":6182.02,"text":"那不是法定他非要放在那裡就有六千個缺"},{"start":6182.02,"end":6184.02,"text":"所以在這七年來"},{"start":6184.02,"end":6186.02,"text":"各位可以看到"},{"start":6186.02,"end":6188.02,"text":"地方政府他要不要"},{"start":6188.02,"end":6190.02,"text":"看各種情況之下開的"},{"start":6190.02,"end":6192.02,"text":"所以不必然"},{"start":6192.02,"end":6194.02,"text":"各位可能會想正式之後就有代理"},{"start":6194.02,"end":6196.02,"text":"好像正式考不到之後"},{"start":6196.02,"end":6198.02,"text":"自然一定有代理"},{"start":6198.02,"end":6200.02,"text":"所以代理的問題一定要解決"},{"start":6200.02,"end":6202.02,"text":"我們提的不太是這個模式"},{"start":6202.02,"end":6204.02,"text":"我們提的模式是"},{"start":6204.02,"end":6206.02,"text":"你要開正式"},{"start":6206.02,"end":6208.02,"text":"你開就要開出來"},{"start":6208.02,"end":6210.02,"text":"開正式就不會沒人去"},{"start":6210.02,"end":6212.02,"text":"這個解決了這一次"},{"start":6212.02,"end":6214.02,"text":"這幾年我們去看"},{"start":6214.02,"end":6216.02,"text":"正式不管放"},{"start":6216.02,"end":6218.02,"text":"地區在哪裡"},{"start":6218.02,"end":6220.02,"text":"他的成功率就比較"},{"start":6220.02,"end":6222.02,"text":"相對非常高"},{"start":6222.02,"end":6224.02,"text":"所以我這邊特別補充這一點就好"},{"start":6224.02,"end":6226.02,"text":"我只是最後肯請"},{"start":6226.02,"end":6228.02,"text":"他的複雜度蠻高的"},{"start":6228.02,"end":6230.02,"text":"我舉個例子"},{"start":6230.02,"end":6232.02,"text":"我老實講"},{"start":6232.02,"end":6234.02,"text":"連江縣他就可能希望"},{"start":6234.02,"end":6236.02,"text":"學校自聘"},{"start":6236.02,"end":6238.02,"text":"跟有些委員很像"},{"start":6238.02,"end":6240.02,"text":"連江縣"},{"start":6240.02,"end":6242.02,"text":"但是有很多縣"},{"start":6242.02,"end":6244.02,"text":"他如果開"},{"start":6244.02,"end":6246.02,"text":"可能他地方上"},{"start":6246.02,"end":6248.02,"text":"以往各位想像的那些事情"},{"start":6248.02,"end":6250.02,"text":"壓力就很大"},{"start":6250.02,"end":6252.02,"text":"學校也不一定希望這樣"},{"start":6252.02,"end":6254.02,"text":"地方政府也怕有困擾"},{"start":6254.02,"end":6256.02,"text":"所以"},{"start":6256.02,"end":6258.02,"text":"他"},{"start":6258.02,"end":6260.02,"text":"每些地方會有不一樣的情況下"},{"start":6260.02,"end":6262.02,"text":"沒有跟地方政府"},{"start":6262.02,"end":6264.02,"text":"做比較好的商量"},{"start":6264.02,"end":6266.02,"text":"或是跟學校代表等等"},{"start":6266.02,"end":6268.02,"text":"我怕這個條文我們在這裡修"},{"start":6268.02,"end":6270.02,"text":"不一定能那麼成熟"},{"start":6270.02,"end":6272.02,"text":"所以我建請可以保留"},{"start":6274.02,"end":6276.02,"text":"好那因為"},{"start":6276.02,"end":6278.02,"text":"目前也沒有看到"},{"start":6278.02,"end":6280.02,"text":"有委員送附帶決議"},{"start":6280.02,"end":6282.02,"text":"或修正動議"},{"start":6282.02,"end":6284.02,"text":"不曉得大家的意見"},{"start":6284.02,"end":6286.02,"text":"是要暫時保留"},{"start":6286.02,"end":6288.02,"text":"留到下一次"},{"start":6288.02,"end":6290.02,"text":"繼續審查的時候處理"},{"start":6290.02,"end":6292.02,"text":"還是說"},{"start":6292.02,"end":6294.02,"text":"要請在這個期間"},{"start":6294.02,"end":6296.02,"text":"就請教育部"},{"start":6296.02,"end":6298.02,"text":"提供一個"},{"start":6298.02,"end":6300.02,"text":"修正動議文字"},{"start":6300.02,"end":6302.02,"text":"現在要提修正動議會因為不尊重地方政府"},{"start":6302.02,"end":6304.02,"text":"或學校代表我建議"},{"start":6304.02,"end":6306.02,"text":"在下一次開會間"},{"start":6306.02,"end":6308.02,"text":"我們就去完成跟地方政府的"},{"start":6308.02,"end":6310.02,"text":"討論說假如我們"},{"start":6310.02,"end":6312.02,"text":"有幾個文文辦濃縮成可能有這種版本"},{"start":6312.02,"end":6314.02,"text":"聽聽他們的想法例如"},{"start":6314.02,"end":6316.02,"text":"我剛才聽到有一些縣市他覺得"},{"start":6316.02,"end":6318.02,"text":"學校辦學校少他好監督"},{"start":6318.02,"end":6320.02,"text":"他還沒問題可是學校很多的時候"},{"start":6320.02,"end":6322.02,"text":"怕不好處理那我們來聽聽看"},{"start":6322.02,"end":6324.02,"text":"縣市有沒有可以了解"},{"start":6324.02,"end":6326.02,"text":"然後並且修正這樣"},{"start":6326.02,"end":6328.02,"text":"張亞明議長其實我想要追問一下"},{"start":6328.02,"end":6330.02,"text":"那因為如果說今天要保留我們還是想知道"},{"start":6330.02,"end":6332.02,"text":"我們大概什麼時候可以去完成"},{"start":6332.02,"end":6334.02,"text":"這些相關的討論是不是有一個大概的"},{"start":6334.02,"end":6336.02,"text":"時間可以說明"},{"start":6336.02,"end":6338.02,"text":"我們九月底前會完成"},{"start":6338.02,"end":6340.02,"text":"討論那因為"},{"start":6340.02,"end":6342.02,"text":"下個會期委員可能也會續牌"},{"start":6342.02,"end":6344.02,"text":"我們希望在委員續牌"},{"start":6344.02,"end":6346.02,"text":"前我們跟地方政府"},{"start":6346.02,"end":6348.02,"text":"探求一下大家對於"},{"start":6348.02,"end":6350.02,"text":"我們會把委員剛剛"},{"start":6350.02,"end":6352.02,"text":"比較集中的意見跟22縣市"},{"start":6352.02,"end":6354.02,"text":"政府了解因為我其實"},{"start":6354.02,"end":6356.02,"text":"有看到有些委員他保留"},{"start":6356.02,"end":6358.02,"text":"兩個管道"},{"start":6358.02,"end":6360.02,"text":"他不是只收為一個管道"},{"start":6360.02,"end":6362.02,"text":"那這一些要不要讓地方"},{"start":6362.02,"end":6364.02,"text":"政府知道剩下可能就是吳正"},{"start":6364.02,"end":6366.02,"text":"老師也可以這樣一路這樣進"},{"start":6366.02,"end":6368.02,"text":"來之後"},{"start":6368.02,"end":6370.02,"text":"可能會有一些學校的聲音"},{"start":6370.02,"end":6372.02,"text":"我們也多搜集一下謝謝"},{"start":6372.02,"end":6374.02,"text":"好那這一條我們"},{"start":6374.02,"end":6376.02,"text":"就是不是就按照剛才"},{"start":6376.02,"end":6378.02,"text":"署長的一個意見"},{"start":6378.02,"end":6380.02,"text":"在九月我們排審"},{"start":6380.02,"end":6382.02,"text":"繼續審查以前"},{"start":6382.02,"end":6384.02,"text":"去跟地方政府溝通"},{"start":6384.02,"end":6386.02,"text":"然後能夠對"},{"start":6386.02,"end":6388.02,"text":"但是我們就是要解決"},{"start":6388.02,"end":6390.02,"text":"這個偏鄉招聘"},{"start":6390.02,"end":6392.02,"text":"困難的問題跟吳正教師的問題"},{"start":6392.02,"end":6394.02,"text":"希望來雅玲委員"},{"start":6394.02,"end":6396.02,"text":"那我們第八條是不是也要一起"},{"start":6396.02,"end":6398.02,"text":"這兩個其實是這兩個是連動的"},{"start":6398.02,"end":6400.02,"text":"好那我們七八條就"},{"start":6400.02,"end":6402.02,"text":"同時暫保好不好"},{"start":6402.02,"end":6404.02,"text":"可以嗎來蔡村守委員"},{"start":6404.02,"end":6406.02,"text":"七八條連動"},{"start":6406.02,"end":6408.02,"text":"就因為他剛剛說要"},{"start":6408.02,"end":6410.02,"text":"做修正文字"},{"start":6410.02,"end":6412.02,"text":"可以喔可以接受"},{"start":6412.02,"end":6414.02,"text":"剛才署長的意見"},{"start":6414.02,"end":6416.02,"text":"對會續排會繼續審查"},{"start":6416.02,"end":6418.02,"text":"OK"},{"start":6418.02,"end":6420.02,"text":"好那"},{"start":6420.02,"end":6422.02,"text":"OK"},{"start":6422.02,"end":6424.02,"text":"來培育委員好我支持七跟八"},{"start":6424.02,"end":6426.02,"text":"就保留那可是因為我八有"},{"start":6426.02,"end":6428.02,"text":"附帶決議是不是就請國教署"},{"start":6428.02,"end":6430.02,"text":"就如果可以的話就遵照"},{"start":6430.02,"end":6432.02,"text":"辦理你幫我確認一下好嗎第八條"},{"start":6432.02,"end":6434.02,"text":"好"},{"start":6434.02,"end":6436.02,"text":"我也有一個附帶決議"},{"start":6436.02,"end":6438.02,"text":"好那我們全部一起我也有"},{"start":6438.02,"end":6440.02,"text":"好是非三非四學校"},{"start":6440.02,"end":6442.02,"text":"未具有教師資格"},{"start":6442.02,"end":6444.02,"text":"可以讓他們有自費經修"},{"start":6444.02,"end":6446.02,"text":"好那七八條雖然"},{"start":6446.02,"end":6448.02,"text":"一起我們還是在"},{"start":6448.02,"end":6450.02,"text":"提供那個發言的部分"},{"start":6450.02,"end":6452.02,"text":"來羅昭偉第八條的發言"},{"start":6452.02,"end":6454.02,"text":"好那我們尊重七八條"},{"start":6454.02,"end":6456.02,"text":"待會要一起處理沒關係啦"},{"start":6456.02,"end":6458.02,"text":"但是讓我們稍微論述一下"},{"start":6458.02,"end":6460.02,"text":"那我想偏遠學校"},{"start":6460.02,"end":6462.02,"text":"現在遇到的問題"},{"start":6462.02,"end":6464.02,"text":"剛剛我們都大概有講述"},{"start":6464.02,"end":6466.02,"text":"老師不好找不好留"},{"start":6466.02,"end":6468.02,"text":"交通員生活不方便能力"},{"start":6468.02,"end":6470.02,"text":"有限那很多正式的老師"},{"start":6470.02,"end":6472.02,"text":"要長期留下來"},{"start":6472.02,"end":6474.02,"text":"我覺得有點困難"},{"start":6474.02,"end":6476.02,"text":"所以孩子能夠讓"},{"start":6476.02,"end":6478.02,"text":"老師正常留下來"},{"start":6478.02,"end":6480.02,"text":"對孩子來說是一個奢望"},{"start":6480.02,"end":6482.02,"text":"因為只要是長期的陪伴"},{"start":6482.02,"end":6484.02,"text":"都一定會有更好的"},{"start":6484.02,"end":6486.02,"text":"一個默契也好啊或者是互動"},{"start":6486.02,"end":6488.02,"text":"所以不斷的換老師對我們來說"},{"start":6488.02,"end":6490.02,"text":"這是我們不樂見的"},{"start":6490.02,"end":6492.02,"text":"那所以這些甚至是還沒有"},{"start":6492.02,"end":6494.02,"text":"教師證的願意投入教學的人員"},{"start":6494.02,"end":6496.02,"text":"我是覺得說剛剛"},{"start":6496.02,"end":6498.02,"text":"國教署署長所講的"},{"start":6498.02,"end":6500.02,"text":"我都能接受"},{"start":6500.02,"end":6502.02,"text":"那也希望說一定要趕快幫我們"},{"start":6502.02,"end":6504.02,"text":"確定一個跟地方縣市"},{"start":6504.02,"end":6506.02,"text":"來做溝通的一個時間"},{"start":6506.02,"end":6508.02,"text":"第二個就是說"},{"start":6508.02,"end":6510.02,"text":"到時候你生出的版本我一個建議就是說"},{"start":6510.02,"end":6512.02,"text":"有一點彈性也沒關係"},{"start":6512.02,"end":6514.02,"text":"但是我們希望還是"},{"start":6514.02,"end":6516.02,"text":"要有一些保障就是入法的保障"},{"start":6516.02,"end":6518.02,"text":"但是你有一些彈性"},{"start":6518.02,"end":6520.02,"text":"可能因應到不同環境"},{"start":6520.02,"end":6522.02,"text":"不同的縣市多笑少笑的部分"},{"start":6522.02,"end":6524.02,"text":"這些如果去"},{"start":6524.02,"end":6526.02,"text":"細部的一些規則你們去訂"},{"start":6526.02,"end":6528.02,"text":"我們都尊重沒關係但是"},{"start":6528.02,"end":6530.02,"text":"能夠有一個開放的大原則放進去"},{"start":6530.02,"end":6532.02,"text":"這個法條的話是希望說"},{"start":6532.02,"end":6534.02,"text":"七八條在未來可以有所變動"},{"start":6534.02,"end":6536.02,"text":"這個部分再提醒一下以上"},{"start":6536.02,"end":6538.02,"text":"好謝謝那陳培育委員"},{"start":6538.02,"end":6540.02,"text":"好那如果第八條"},{"start":6540.02,"end":6542.02,"text":"一併保留我還是要拜託教育部"},{"start":6542.02,"end":6544.02,"text":"要帶回去研議的意見喔"},{"start":6544.02,"end":6546.02,"text":"第一個我們現在看到"},{"start":6546.02,"end":6548.02,"text":"給予老師們第一個是"},{"start":6548.02,"end":6550.02,"text":"偏鄉帶領老師的流動率因為很高"},{"start":6550.02,"end":6552.02,"text":"我希望可以提出來"},{"start":6552.02,"end":6554.02,"text":"是說再聘年限的部分喔"},{"start":6554.02,"end":6556.02,"text":"我希望可以拉高帶領教師的再聘"},{"start":6556.02,"end":6558.02,"text":"總聘期為最高六年"},{"start":6558.02,"end":6560.02,"text":"也就是說我們把這個"},{"start":6560.02,"end":6562.02,"text":"期間拉長其實可以讓老師"},{"start":6562.02,"end":6564.02,"text":"更穩定更安心的工作"},{"start":6564.02,"end":6566.02,"text":"他不要因為那個再聘期"},{"start":6566.02,"end":6568.02,"text":"很短的時間他還要去擔心他下一"},{"start":6568.02,"end":6570.02,"text":"份工作的著落那再來"},{"start":6570.02,"end":6572.02,"text":"就是我們現在給老師進修的資格"},{"start":6572.02,"end":6574.02,"text":"我們來看一下喔現在的規定是說"},{"start":6574.02,"end":6576.02,"text":"偏鄉學校的"},{"start":6576.02,"end":6578.02,"text":"無證帶領教師他如果最近三年"},{"start":6578.02,"end":6580.02,"text":"服務滿四個學期"},{"start":6580.02,"end":6582.02,"text":"而且表現優良中央全額"},{"start":6582.02,"end":6584.02,"text":"補助的師資"},{"start":6584.02,"end":6586.02,"text":"值錢課程"},{"start":6586.02,"end":6588.02,"text":"他可以參加參加之後"},{"start":6588.02,"end":6590.02,"text":"通過教師資格考還可以免去"},{"start":6590.02,"end":6592.02,"text":"教育實習也就是說"},{"start":6592.02,"end":6594.02,"text":"有學費補助教育實習"},{"start":6594.02,"end":6596.02,"text":"可以免去我覺得這個非常好"},{"start":6596.02,"end":6598.02,"text":"可是問題是你們現在這個辦法僅限於"},{"start":6598.02,"end":6600.02,"text":"主管機關招聘的喔"},{"start":6600.02,"end":6602.02,"text":"也就是如果學校"},{"start":6602.02,"end":6604.02,"text":"單獨招聘的不含在裡頭"},{"start":6604.02,"end":6606.02,"text":"所以回到剛剛第七條又有地方招聘"},{"start":6606.02,"end":6608.02,"text":"又有學校招聘的問題我覺得七八"},{"start":6608.02,"end":6610.02,"text":"是緩緩相扣拜託國教署帶回去研議"},{"start":6610.02,"end":6612.02,"text":"不能只有主管機關招聘的"},{"start":6612.02,"end":6614.02,"text":"但是學校獨立招聘的"},{"start":6614.02,"end":6616.02,"text":"卻不含在可以去上課啦"},{"start":6616.02,"end":6618.02,"text":"可以有學費補助但是"},{"start":6618.02,"end":6620.02,"text":"如果我們未來把這個學校招聘的部分"},{"start":6620.02,"end":6622.02,"text":"限制也打開了他們"},{"start":6622.02,"end":6624.02,"text":"可以去上課他們要不要有學費補助"},{"start":6624.02,"end":6626.02,"text":"我覺得你們都可以去研議但至少他們"},{"start":6626.02,"end":6628.02,"text":"可以去上課這件事情"},{"start":6628.02,"end":6630.02,"text":"再來就是非山非市的部分我剛"},{"start":6630.02,"end":6632.02,"text":"講了我希望非山非市的學校"},{"start":6632.02,"end":6634.02,"text":"也要納入可以開放他們"},{"start":6634.02,"end":6636.02,"text":"可以去上課這件事情"},{"start":6636.02,"end":6638.02,"text":"那費用的部分我們都可以再討論"},{"start":6638.02,"end":6640.02,"text":"要自費也沒有問題那我們到了"},{"start":6640.02,"end":6642.02,"text":"很多學校去了其實學校不斷地"},{"start":6642.02,"end":6644.02,"text":"告訴我們一旦他們學校"},{"start":6644.02,"end":6646.02,"text":"被列為非山非市學校"},{"start":6646.02,"end":6648.02,"text":"他們學校甚至連代理教師都"},{"start":6648.02,"end":6650.02,"text":"很難考"},{"start":6650.02,"end":6652.02,"text":"代理教師都很不願意去考因為他"},{"start":6652.02,"end":6654.02,"text":"認為他沒有進修的機會他為了沒有"},{"start":6654.02,"end":6656.02,"text":"辦法轉正他沒有辦法拿到這個"},{"start":6656.02,"end":6658.02,"text":"證照所以我才會強力要求"},{"start":6658.02,"end":6660.02,"text":"在獨立招聘的部分"},{"start":6660.02,"end":6662.02,"text":"非山非市的部分我們要把這個資格"},{"start":6662.02,"end":6664.02,"text":"開放出來給學校老師"},{"start":6664.02,"end":6666.02,"text":"讓他們有可以轉正可以"},{"start":6666.02,"end":6668.02,"text":"拿到合格教師證的機會"},{"start":6668.02,"end":6670.02,"text":"以上"},{"start":6670.02,"end":6672.02,"text":"謝謝裴議員來國瑜請委員"},{"start":6672.02,"end":6674.02,"text":"這個其實我剛剛有特別"},{"start":6674.02,"end":6676.02,"text":"提到就是偏向他現在其實"},{"start":6676.02,"end":6678.02,"text":"還是會有許多充滿熱情"},{"start":6678.02,"end":6680.02,"text":"跟深耕希望能夠"},{"start":6680.02,"end":6682.02,"text":"長期深耕的這些所謂的"},{"start":6682.02,"end":6684.02,"text":"代理教師啦但是"},{"start":6684.02,"end":6686.02,"text":"因為就是他們的這個距離跟"},{"start":6686.02,"end":6688.02,"text":"他們的工作還有他們的這個時間"},{"start":6688.02,"end":6690.02,"text":"的一個部分就是在那個所謂的這個"},{"start":6690.02,"end":6692.02,"text":"多元的授課"},{"start":6692.02,"end":6694.02,"text":"的一個模式就是除了集中"},{"start":6694.02,"end":6696.02,"text":"在這個寒暑假之外"},{"start":6696.02,"end":6698.02,"text":"那是不是可以擴大線上跟這個"},{"start":6698.02,"end":6700.02,"text":"遠距教學的一個還有這個"},{"start":6700.02,"end":6702.02,"text":"學分數的部分是不是也可以"},{"start":6702.02,"end":6704.02,"text":"來做就是"},{"start":6704.02,"end":6706.02,"text":"更進一步的一個演繹然後再來"},{"start":6706.02,"end":6708.02,"text":"就是明定這個第二專長"},{"start":6708.02,"end":6710.02,"text":"的一個學分班原則上"},{"start":6710.02,"end":6712.02,"text":"就是能夠降低他們這個休課"},{"start":6712.02,"end":6714.02,"text":"的一個門檻我覺得這個是給他們"},{"start":6714.02,"end":6716.02,"text":"一個便利器所以這個部分我提那個"},{"start":6716.02,"end":6718.02,"text":"好以上好謝謝"},{"start":6718.02,"end":6720.02,"text":"張亞玲委員請"},{"start":6720.02,"end":6722.02,"text":"那我的版本其實裡面在第八條裡面"},{"start":6722.02,"end":6724.02,"text":"也是有講到有關於這個放寬參加"},{"start":6724.02,"end":6726.02,"text":"資格不代表所有的學費都"},{"start":6726.02,"end":6728.02,"text":"要由政府來全額負擔啦原本"},{"start":6728.02,"end":6730.02,"text":"符合全額補助條件的人來依規定"},{"start":6730.02,"end":6732.02,"text":"辦理那新增"},{"start":6732.02,"end":6734.02,"text":"的適用對象則才合理分"},{"start":6734.02,"end":6736.02,"text":"成本的一個分單避免跟"},{"start":6736.02,"end":6738.02,"text":"公費制度混淆"},{"start":6738.02,"end":6740.02,"text":"那我自己呢還有特別就是說"},{"start":6740.02,"end":6742.02,"text":"針對批刑三個月以上的"},{"start":6742.02,"end":6744.02,"text":"代課教師既然"},{"start":6744.02,"end":6746.02,"text":"也要經過公開的甄選那如果具有"},{"start":6746.02,"end":6748.02,"text":"當地的通行語"},{"start":6748.02,"end":6750.02,"text":"專長也應該要納入甄選"},{"start":6750.02,"end":6752.02,"text":"的加分來確保我們的一些"},{"start":6752.02,"end":6754.02,"text":"地方的語言可以傳承"},{"start":6754.02,"end":6756.02,"text":"這樣子"},{"start":6756.02,"end":6758.02,"text":"好謝謝亞玲委員"},{"start":6758.02,"end":6760.02,"text":"那在第八條的部分"},{"start":6760.02,"end":6762.02,"text":"我個人就是"},{"start":6762.02,"end":6764.02,"text":"就是一個概念"},{"start":6764.02,"end":6766.02,"text":"在地人才在地"},{"start":6766.02,"end":6768.02,"text":"培育在地留任"},{"start":6768.02,"end":6770.02,"text":"我希望可以穩定"},{"start":6770.02,"end":6772.02,"text":"這樣一個偏鄉的"},{"start":6772.02,"end":6774.02,"text":"實質"},{"start":6774.02,"end":6776.02,"text":"但是今天剛才大家已經有共識"},{"start":6776.02,"end":6778.02,"text":"認為連動的第七"},{"start":6778.02,"end":6780.02,"text":"條跟第八條"},{"start":6780.02,"end":6782.02,"text":"就是解決偏鄉實質困難"},{"start":6782.02,"end":6784.02,"text":"的問題還有無證教師的"},{"start":6784.02,"end":6786.02,"text":"問題那我們先"},{"start":6786.02,"end":6788.02,"text":"暫時做保留"},{"start":6788.02,"end":6790.02,"text":"那在這個期間"},{"start":6790.02,"end":6792.02,"text":"也請我們教育部"},{"start":6792.02,"end":6794.02,"text":"能夠跟地方政府溝通"},{"start":6794.02,"end":6796.02,"text":"然後提出一個能夠解決"},{"start":6796.02,"end":6798.02,"text":"剛才大家意見的版本"},{"start":6798.02,"end":6800.02,"text":"那這個第七條"},{"start":6800.02,"end":6802.02,"text":"跟第八條"},{"start":6802.02,"end":6804.02,"text":"郭育晴委員陳培育委員"},{"start":6804.02,"end":6806.02,"text":"吳立華委員三個"},{"start":6806.02,"end":6808.02,"text":"附帶決議那因為七"},{"start":6808.02,"end":6810.02,"text":"八條做暫時保留所以我們"},{"start":6810.02,"end":6812.02,"text":"留待下一次再一併處理"},{"start":6812.02,"end":6814.02,"text":"好我們"},{"start":6814.02,"end":6816.02,"text":"推進到第九條"},{"start":6816.02,"end":6818.02,"text":"修正的有"},{"start":6818.02,"end":6820.02,"text":"委員范雲等十六人"},{"start":6820.02,"end":6822.02,"text":"等六個提案"},{"start":6822.02,"end":6824.02,"text":"版本好那有沒有"},{"start":6824.02,"end":6826.02,"text":"在場的委員發言來"},{"start":6826.02,"end":6828.02,"text":"張亞玲委員好那我的"},{"start":6828.02,"end":6830.02,"text":"第九條版本其實新增了這個"},{"start":6830.02,"end":6832.02,"text":"強化學生的心理健康"},{"start":6832.02,"end":6834.02,"text":"與多元支持"},{"start":6834.02,"end":6836.02,"text":"我想在2020"},{"start":6836.02,"end":6838.02,"text":"年之後呢這個兒少的心理"},{"start":6838.02,"end":6840.02,"text":"健康問題其實已經引起了大家"},{"start":6840.02,"end":6842.02,"text":"的關注因為這個兒童的自殺率"},{"start":6842.02,"end":6844.02,"text":"還有身心的疾患"},{"start":6844.02,"end":6846.02,"text":"其實都是越來越嚴重的"},{"start":6846.02,"end":6848.02,"text":"所以我是希望說在十年後我們"},{"start":6848.02,"end":6850.02,"text":"再來修訂這個版本的時候要把心理"},{"start":6850.02,"end":6852.02,"text":"健康跟多元支持放進去"},{"start":6852.02,"end":6854.02,"text":"因為我也看了一下我們在113"},{"start":6854.02,"end":6856.02,"text":"年中央政府的總預算"},{"start":6856.02,"end":6858.02,"text":"總和報告我們在113"},{"start":6858.02,"end":6860.02,"text":"年905所的"},{"start":6860.02,"end":6862.02,"text":"偏遠國中小地區"},{"start":6862.02,"end":6864.02,"text":"有807所是六班以下"},{"start":6864.02,"end":6866.02,"text":"的那"},{"start":6866.02,"end":6868.02,"text":"佔了將近的九成那"},{"start":6868.02,"end":6870.02,"text":"配置標準的這些學校應該在"},{"start":6870.02,"end":6872.02,"text":"170年度以前"},{"start":6872.02,"end":6874.02,"text":"要有這個專任教師但是"},{"start":6874.02,"end":6876.02,"text":"我們現在的配置蠻多都還是"},{"start":6876.02,"end":6878.02,"text":"零的那我這邊有說到一個"},{"start":6878.02,"end":6880.02,"text":"案例是那個"},{"start":6880.02,"end":6882.02,"text":"台東有小孩子"},{"start":6882.02,"end":6884.02,"text":"他其實要花2到3個"},{"start":6884.02,"end":6886.02,"text":"小時到外縣市"},{"start":6886.02,"end":6888.02,"text":"就醫不管是特教"},{"start":6888.02,"end":6890.02,"text":"鑑定或是巡迴輔導"},{"start":6890.02,"end":6892.02,"text":"他都要繼續等待所以我想偏"},{"start":6892.02,"end":6894.02,"text":"下孩子所需要的也不是只有"},{"start":6894.02,"end":6896.02,"text":"我們上面寫的這些課業輔導"},{"start":6896.02,"end":6898.02,"text":"還有我們的心理支持"},{"start":6898.02,"end":6900.02,"text":"社政醫療資源都應該要進入"},{"start":6900.02,"end":6902.02,"text":"所以我這部分有加定了"},{"start":6902.02,"end":6904.02,"text":"這個強化學生心理健康"},{"start":6904.02,"end":6906.02,"text":"與多元支持的條文"},{"start":6906.02,"end":6908.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6908.02,"end":6910.02,"text":"謝謝雅玲委員還有沒有其他委員"},{"start":6910.02,"end":6912.02,"text":"要發言好教育部要不要做回應"},{"start":6914.02,"end":6916.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6916.02,"end":6918.02,"text":"謝謝張委員所提"},{"start":6918.02,"end":6920.02,"text":"那的確目前"},{"start":6920.02,"end":6922.02,"text":"我們自己也感受到"},{"start":6922.02,"end":6924.02,"text":"學生這一方面的支持"},{"start":6924.02,"end":6926.02,"text":"應該要更好更完善"},{"start":6926.02,"end":6928.02,"text":"那原來在大院"},{"start":6928.02,"end":6930.02,"text":"往下面一款看"},{"start":6930.02,"end":6932.02,"text":"那個時候"},{"start":6932.02,"end":6934.02,"text":"院裡面其實立法院"},{"start":6934.02,"end":6936.02,"text":"主委委員就有想到"},{"start":6936.02,"end":6938.02,"text":"其實是有加強"},{"start":6938.02,"end":6940.02,"text":"教職員"},{"start":6940.02,"end":6942.02,"text":"工生有啦"},{"start":6942.02,"end":6944.02,"text":"但是時代的關係現在"},{"start":6944.02,"end":6946.02,"text":"更強調剛剛張委員"},{"start":6946.02,"end":6948.02,"text":"所提這個"},{"start":6948.02,"end":6950.02,"text":"我們覺得在文字上"},{"start":6950.02,"end":6952.02,"text":"我們再顯示重視應該"},{"start":6952.02,"end":6954.02,"text":"應該也做得到"},{"start":6954.02,"end":6956.02,"text":"讓大家更重視"},{"start":6956.02,"end":6958.02,"text":"好那所以建議"},{"start":6958.02,"end":6960.02,"text":"我們這一條"},{"start":6960.02,"end":6962.02,"text":"就"},{"start":6962.02,"end":6964.02,"text":"好"},{"start":6964.02,"end":6966.02,"text":"是按照要列出文字"},{"start":6966.02,"end":6968.02,"text":"一下"},{"start":6968.02,"end":6970.02,"text":"我們今天有成績了"},{"start":6972.02,"end":6974.02,"text":"好"},{"start":6974.02,"end":6976.02,"text":"請大家看一下"},{"start":6976.02,"end":6978.02,"text":"大螢幕上的"},{"start":6978.02,"end":6980.02,"text":"修正文字"},{"start":6988.02,"end":6990.02,"text":"強化學生"},{"start":6990.02,"end":6992.02,"text":"心理健康與多元支持是第五"},{"start":6992.02,"end":6994.02,"text":"他在上面"},{"start":6994.02,"end":6996.02,"text":"六變成"},{"start":6996.02,"end":6998.02,"text":"六變成"},{"start":6998.02,"end":7000.02,"text":"六變成"},{"start":7000.02,"end":7002.02,"text":"六變成"},{"start":7002.02,"end":7004.02,"text":"五六調換"},{"start":7016.02,"end":7018.02,"text":"好做這樣的修正文字"},{"start":7018.02,"end":7020.02,"text":"大家看一下"},{"start":7020.02,"end":7022.02,"text":"教育部"},{"start":7022.02,"end":7024.02,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":7024.02,"end":7026.02,"text":"培育委員"},{"start":7026.02,"end":7028.02,"text":"來請"},{"start":7028.02,"end":7030.02,"text":"九條我有提版本主要是"},{"start":7030.02,"end":7032.02,"text":"第一個我想跟教育部討論"},{"start":7032.02,"end":7034.02,"text":"而且我相信教育部一定深有同感"},{"start":7034.02,"end":7036.02,"text":"我們現在在原來的版本"},{"start":7036.02,"end":7038.02,"text":"叫做建設學校"},{"start":7038.02,"end":7040.02,"text":"就是只蓋這些東西的基礎建設"},{"start":7040.02,"end":7042.02,"text":"這當然是各個地方的主管機關"},{"start":7042.02,"end":7044.02,"text":"跟中央要協助的"},{"start":7044.02,"end":7046.02,"text":"但是維護跟營運"},{"start":7046.02,"end":7048.02,"text":"其實也很重要"},{"start":7048.02,"end":7050.02,"text":"過去以來台灣的學校因為就是"},{"start":7050.02,"end":7052.02,"text":"沒有認真去想過他的維護"},{"start":7052.02,"end":7054.02,"text":"跟營運所以就導致於其實"},{"start":7054.02,"end":7056.02,"text":"不是只有偏鄉學校其實都市學校"},{"start":7056.02,"end":7058.02,"text":"所以就這樣啦"},{"start":7058.02,"end":7060.02,"text":"圖書館壞了我們就是要有教育部的圖書館專案"},{"start":7060.02,"end":7062.02,"text":"或者是地方政府的專案"},{"start":7062.02,"end":7064.02,"text":"操場壞了廁所壞了什麼什麼什麼壞了"},{"start":7064.02,"end":7066.02,"text":"就是不斷的用專案或是不斷的用"},{"start":7066.02,"end":7068.02,"text":"民意代表的"},{"start":7068.02,"end":7070.02,"text":"協調來申請"},{"start":7070.02,"end":7072.02,"text":"但是我覺得偏鄉學校在營運跟維護"},{"start":7072.02,"end":7074.02,"text":"這件事情如果我們可以更積極的"},{"start":7074.02,"end":7076.02,"text":"寫入模法裡頭"},{"start":7076.02,"end":7078.02,"text":"我們讓中央政府跟地方政府各自"},{"start":7078.02,"end":7080.02,"text":"分工明確"},{"start":7080.02,"end":7082.02,"text":"該是誰買單就誰買單該協助"},{"start":7082.02,"end":7084.02,"text":"就協助而且日常的維護"},{"start":7084.02,"end":7086.02,"text":"如果做得好其實總比一次大翻新好"},{"start":7086.02,"end":7088.02,"text":"而且孩子們在日常使用的時候"},{"start":7088.02,"end":7090.02,"text":"其實也是比較安全的"},{"start":7090.02,"end":7092.02,"text":"所以看起來營運跟維護這兩個字"},{"start":7092.02,"end":7094.02,"text":"看起來好像沒什麼"},{"start":7094.02,"end":7096.02,"text":"但我認為回到學校的基礎建設上"},{"start":7096.02,"end":7098.02,"text":"這兩件事情其實是更重要的"},{"start":7098.02,"end":7100.02,"text":"所以我的版本裡面"},{"start":7100.02,"end":7102.02,"text":"就在第一項的部分加入"},{"start":7102.02,"end":7104.02,"text":"營運及維護"},{"start":7104.02,"end":7106.02,"text":"所以也因為做這個"},{"start":7106.02,"end":7108.02,"text":"修法所以我把我就加了一個第八項"},{"start":7108.02,"end":7110.02,"text":"安排執行第一款到"},{"start":7110.02,"end":7112.02,"text":"第七款措施"},{"start":7112.02,"end":7114.02,"text":"之後我們有了政策之後"},{"start":7114.02,"end":7116.02,"text":"我們有了預算之後人力的專業度"},{"start":7116.02,"end":7118.02,"text":"也很重要所以以上謝謝"},{"start":7118.02,"end":7120.02,"text":"好那是不是大家同意"},{"start":7120.02,"end":7122.02,"text":"在第一款的部分"},{"start":7122.02,"end":7124.02,"text":"建設遁號加營運及維護"},{"start":7124.02,"end":7126.02,"text":"主長可以嗎"},{"start":7126.02,"end":7128.02,"text":"等一下喔"},{"start":7128.02,"end":7130.02,"text":"這是有一個"},{"start":7130.02,"end":7132.02,"text":"我們大家看一下"},{"start":7132.02,"end":7134.02,"text":"那個文字啦"},{"start":7134.02,"end":7136.02,"text":"我們先看第二項"},{"start":7136.02,"end":7138.02,"text":"原條文的第二項"},{"start":7138.02,"end":7140.02,"text":"前項所需經費"},{"start":7140.02,"end":7142.02,"text":"中央主管機關"},{"start":7142.02,"end":7144.02,"text":"應依地方政府的財力集資等等"},{"start":7146.02,"end":7148.02,"text":"我想培育委員提的時候"},{"start":7148.02,"end":7150.02,"text":"他整個構想"},{"start":7150.02,"end":7152.02,"text":"應該是各主管機關"},{"start":7152.02,"end":7154.02,"text":"應該不是"},{"start":7154.02,"end":7156.02,"text":"這樣加了之後"},{"start":7156.02,"end":7158.02,"text":"連他後續所有什麼"},{"start":7158.02,"end":7160.02,"text":"都要中央繼續"},{"start":7160.02,"end":7162.02,"text":"因為原來"},{"start":7162.02,"end":7164.02,"text":"如果是在114年以前"},{"start":7164.02,"end":7166.02,"text":"大院這樣說"},{"start":7166.02,"end":7168.02,"text":"我們覺得沒有什麼"},{"start":7168.02,"end":7170.02,"text":"大院這樣說我們覺得免利為之"},{"start":7170.02,"end":7172.02,"text":"可是115之後"},{"start":7172.02,"end":7174.02,"text":"才華法一列了之後"},{"start":7174.02,"end":7176.02,"text":"我怕縣市會誤會"},{"start":7176.02,"end":7178.02,"text":"以後連營運維護"},{"start":7178.02,"end":7180.02,"text":"也是要中央"},{"start":7180.02,"end":7182.02,"text":"我就比較為難了"},{"start":7182.02,"end":7184.02,"text":"好來快速回應署長"},{"start":7184.02,"end":7186.02,"text":"沒有錯所以我剛剛的發言"},{"start":7186.02,"end":7188.02,"text":"也提到是中央跟地方"},{"start":7188.02,"end":7190.02,"text":"要共同努力的事情"},{"start":7190.02,"end":7192.02,"text":"所以如果可以加上"},{"start":7192.02,"end":7194.02,"text":"營運及維護"},{"start":7194.02,"end":7196.02,"text":"那如何確保"},{"start":7196.02,"end":7198.02,"text":"各自的分工還有職責"},{"start":7198.02,"end":7200.02,"text":"還有應該誰來出這個錢"},{"start":7200.02,"end":7202.02,"text":"署長有沒有什麼建議的寫法"},{"start":7202.02,"end":7204.02,"text":"我可以參考您的建議"},{"start":7204.02,"end":7206.02,"text":"今天這個地方算不算"},{"start":7206.02,"end":7208.02,"text":"它是這樣"},{"start":7208.02,"end":7210.02,"text":"原來"},{"start":7210.02,"end":7212.02,"text":"大院立法院"},{"start":7212.02,"end":7214.02,"text":"在設計一次性的"},{"start":7214.02,"end":7216.02,"text":"整個對偏鄉的協助照顧"},{"start":7216.02,"end":7218.02,"text":"第九條一開始它的句詞是這樣"},{"start":7218.02,"end":7220.02,"text":"它是指那個機關"},{"start":7220.02,"end":7222.02,"text":"要去建設一是設施"},{"start":7222.02,"end":7224.02,"text":"二是設備"},{"start":7224.02,"end":7226.02,"text":"第三是講學生的有關事項"},{"start":7226.02,"end":7228.02,"text":"它是講說"},{"start":7228.02,"end":7230.02,"text":"中央你要好好的"},{"start":7230.02,"end":7232.02,"text":"要均衡台灣時這些都要一起"},{"start":7232.02,"end":7234.02,"text":"那種一開始要投入的"},{"start":7234.02,"end":7236.02,"text":"那個就請"},{"start":7236.02,"end":7238.02,"text":"中央主管機關要這樣協助"},{"start":7238.02,"end":7240.02,"text":"所以"},{"start":7240.02,"end":7242.02,"text":"那有一些是地方"},{"start":7242.02,"end":7244.02,"text":"自己應該注意的是不是"},{"start":7244.02,"end":7246.02,"text":"就原來立法者有考慮"},{"start":7246.02,"end":7248.02,"text":"我覺得也滿周到了是不是"},{"start":7248.02,"end":7250.02,"text":"就比這次還不用"},{"start":7250.02,"end":7252.02,"text":"大概是這樣"},{"start":7254.02,"end":7256.02,"text":"好"},{"start":7256.02,"end":7258.02,"text":"我想這個部分"},{"start":7258.02,"end":7260.02,"text":"培育委員應該是"},{"start":7260.02,"end":7262.02,"text":"認為"},{"start":7262.02,"end":7264.02,"text":"建設很簡單後續的營運"},{"start":7264.02,"end":7266.02,"text":"跟維護其實"},{"start":7266.02,"end":7268.02,"text":"對學校來講很辛苦特別是"},{"start":7268.02,"end":7270.02,"text":"偏鄉學校所以它可以接受"},{"start":7270.02,"end":7272.02,"text":"如果能夠解決這個問題"},{"start":7272.02,"end":7274.02,"text":"那文字可以怎麼寫"},{"start":7274.02,"end":7276.02,"text":"當然我們也了解才化法之後"},{"start":7276.02,"end":7278.02,"text":"中央地方的分工"},{"start":7278.02,"end":7280.02,"text":"其實到最後不要變成"},{"start":7280.02,"end":7282.02,"text":"是偏鄉學校的一個為難"},{"start":7282.02,"end":7284.02,"text":"所以"},{"start":7284.02,"end":7286.02,"text":"培育委員你有建議文字嗎"},{"start":7286.02,"end":7288.02,"text":"我懂署長的意思了"},{"start":7288.02,"end":7290.02,"text":"就是當時第九條是否"},{"start":7290.02,"end":7292.02,"text":"中央主管機關"},{"start":7292.02,"end":7294.02,"text":"只是你後面才會說中央主管機關"},{"start":7294.02,"end":7296.02,"text":"要依照地方政府財力"},{"start":7296.02,"end":7298.02,"text":"給予補助對不對"},{"start":7298.02,"end":7300.02,"text":"所以我們現在編列了261"},{"start":7300.02,"end":7302.02,"text":"來協助是這樣的大部分"},{"start":7302.02,"end":7304.02,"text":"可是你們的法制說"},{"start":7304.02,"end":7306.02,"text":"很含地方"},{"start":7306.02,"end":7308.02,"text":"本來是這樣"},{"start":7308.02,"end":7310.02,"text":"所以我具體的建議是這樣"},{"start":7310.02,"end":7312.02,"text":"因為我們也有看到"},{"start":7312.02,"end":7314.02,"text":"它後面的維護沒有人管也不行"},{"start":7314.02,"end":7316.02,"text":"那如果大院這邊可以的話"},{"start":7316.02,"end":7318.02,"text":"應該在立法說明這邊"},{"start":7318.02,"end":7320.02,"text":"可以就第九條"},{"start":7320.02,"end":7322.02,"text":"這次如果有加營運維護"},{"start":7322.02,"end":7324.02,"text":"在立法說明這邊可能要"},{"start":7324.02,"end":7326.02,"text":"說明清楚說"},{"start":7326.02,"end":7328.02,"text":"它這第九條的"},{"start":7328.02,"end":7330.02,"text":"二項建設之後有關營運維護"},{"start":7330.02,"end":7332.02,"text":"就要回到各主管機關"},{"start":7332.02,"end":7334.02,"text":"會變成這樣"},{"start":7334.02,"end":7336.02,"text":"好那你們要修立法說明嗎"},{"start":7336.02,"end":7338.02,"text":"可能就要增加立法說明"},{"start":7338.02,"end":7340.02,"text":"所以說明的部分"},{"start":7340.02,"end":7342.02,"text":"對可以"},{"start":7342.02,"end":7344.02,"text":"它一下會鬥到了第二項"},{"start":7344.02,"end":7346.02,"text":"我懂的意思"},{"start":7346.02,"end":7348.02,"text":"但是因為立法說明要你們修"},{"start":7348.02,"end":7350.02,"text":"你們修你們寫嘛"},{"start":7350.02,"end":7352.02,"text":"是嗎"},{"start":7352.02,"end":7354.02,"text":"如果政策方向上要這樣寫"},{"start":7354.02,"end":7356.02,"text":"那就要配立法說明"},{"start":7356.02,"end":7358.02,"text":"好啊因為我也覺得"},{"start":7358.02,"end":7360.02,"text":"本來地方政府尤其是我舉一個例子"},{"start":7360.02,"end":7362.02,"text":"我自己現在就住台北市"},{"start":7362.02,"end":7364.02,"text":"台北市在新版的才華法多拿四百多億"},{"start":7364.02,"end":7366.02,"text":"我高雄少拿一百多億"},{"start":7366.02,"end":7368.02,"text":"所以本來應該要歸地方政府"},{"start":7368.02,"end":7370.02,"text":"他就應該乖乖買單"},{"start":7370.02,"end":7372.02,"text":"那如果這個建議版本"},{"start":7372.02,"end":7374.02,"text":"真的可以這樣修立法說明的部分"},{"start":7374.02,"end":7376.02,"text":"是不是請署長這邊公開發言"},{"start":7376.02,"end":7378.02,"text":"指出建議然後列下公報記錄"},{"start":7378.02,"end":7380.02,"text":"那你們回去要修改立法說明"},{"start":7380.02,"end":7382.02,"text":"來署長"},{"start":7382.02,"end":7384.02,"text":"同意嗎"},{"start":7384.02,"end":7386.02,"text":"在原來大院所指的"},{"start":7386.02,"end":7388.02,"text":"建設的那個譬如說"},{"start":7388.02,"end":7390.02,"text":"三年兩百萬以及二十六億"},{"start":7390.02,"end":7392.02,"text":"具需要支持之下"},{"start":7392.02,"end":7394.02,"text":"那現在立法者有看到"},{"start":7394.02,"end":7396.02,"text":"營運跟維護也後來會有需要"},{"start":7396.02,"end":7398.02,"text":"再配合這個才華法"},{"start":7398.02,"end":7400.02,"text":"有一列經費"},{"start":7400.02,"end":7402.02,"text":"是不是我們來寫一個立法說明"},{"start":7402.02,"end":7404.02,"text":"來達到立法委員這樣的一個"},{"start":7404.02,"end":7406.02,"text":"照顧片箱的需求"},{"start":7406.02,"end":7408.02,"text":"來那個雅玲委員"},{"start":7408.02,"end":7410.02,"text":"其實我是支持啦"},{"start":7410.02,"end":7412.02,"text":"只是我有點疑問想要確認一下"},{"start":7412.02,"end":7414.02,"text":"就是那個營運學校畢竟是一個非營利的單位"},{"start":7414.02,"end":7416.02,"text":"所以我不太確定營運這兩個字"},{"start":7416.02,"end":7418.02,"text":"是適合放在條文裡面的嗎"},{"start":7418.02,"end":7420.02,"text":"我只想釐清一下而已"},{"start":7420.02,"end":7422.02,"text":"有"},{"start":7422.02,"end":7424.02,"text":"好我回應一下"},{"start":7424.02,"end":7426.02,"text":"就是為什麼那時候是這樣寫"},{"start":7426.02,"end":7428.02,"text":"因為像體育設施就是一個營運的概念"},{"start":7428.02,"end":7430.02,"text":"在學校機關用資裡頭"},{"start":7430.02,"end":7432.02,"text":"所以我才把營運放下去"},{"start":7432.02,"end":7434.02,"text":"好"},{"start":7434.02,"end":7436.02,"text":"那大家來署長"},{"start":7436.02,"end":7438.02,"text":"其實這個營運的概念"},{"start":7438.02,"end":7440.02,"text":"的確滿廣"},{"start":7440.02,"end":7442.02,"text":"那一般我們如果提示"},{"start":7442.02,"end":7444.02,"text":"大概蓋了之後那個維護經費"},{"start":7444.02,"end":7446.02,"text":"一般我們的編列經費會這樣寫"},{"start":7446.02,"end":7448.02,"text":"就是會直接跳到這個"},{"start":7448.02,"end":7450.02,"text":"那再來就是"},{"start":7450.02,"end":7452.02,"text":"是要用另外一項來說明"},{"start":7452.02,"end":7454.02,"text":"還是寫在立法說明"},{"start":7454.02,"end":7456.02,"text":"那有一種誰要另外一項說明"},{"start":7456.02,"end":7458.02,"text":"是大家都看得到"},{"start":7458.02,"end":7460.02,"text":"寫在立法說明有人看不到"},{"start":7460.02,"end":7462.02,"text":"主席那這樣好不好"},{"start":7462.02,"end":7464.02,"text":"這一題給我們一點時間"},{"start":7464.02,"end":7466.02,"text":"我來跟國家署討論"},{"start":7466.02,"end":7468.02,"text":"我也認為應該寫在這個法裡面的"},{"start":7468.02,"end":7470.02,"text":"下一個項目"},{"start":7470.02,"end":7472.02,"text":"讓大家在看法的時候就看得到"},{"start":7472.02,"end":7474.02,"text":"等一下再回來看那個文字"},{"start":7474.02,"end":7476.02,"text":"對好不好"},{"start":7476.02,"end":7478.02,"text":"然後委員的建議"},{"start":7478.02,"end":7480.02,"text":"讓他比較明示"},{"start":7480.02,"end":7482.02,"text":"不要用"},{"start":7482.02,"end":7484.02,"text":"因為怕有些是用公文轉達"},{"start":7484.02,"end":7486.02,"text":"會沒有力量"},{"start":7486.02,"end":7488.02,"text":"我們會寫在一項來讓他明確一點"},{"start":7488.02,"end":7490.02,"text":"好"},{"start":7490.02,"end":7492.02,"text":"那文字的部分我們先暫時做討論"},{"start":7492.02,"end":7494.02,"text":"等一下再回來"},{"start":7494.02,"end":7496.02,"text":"好那我們暫時保留謝謝"},{"start":7496.02,"end":7498.02,"text":"好我們往前推進到第十條"},{"start":7498.02,"end":7500.02,"text":"第十條條文修正"},{"start":7500.02,"end":7502.02,"text":"由委員郭育芹等18人"},{"start":7502.02,"end":7504.02,"text":"委員葛如君等19人"},{"start":7504.02,"end":7506.02,"text":"委員陳培育等16人"},{"start":7506.02,"end":7508.02,"text":"有三個提案"},{"start":7508.02,"end":7510.02,"text":"有沒有委員要做說明"},{"start":7510.02,"end":7512.02,"text":"來 郭育芹委員"},{"start":7512.02,"end":7514.02,"text":"好 第十條我的這個版本"},{"start":7514.02,"end":7516.02,"text":"教育部有來特別溝通"},{"start":7516.02,"end":7518.02,"text":"那我先講一下就是這一條"},{"start":7518.02,"end":7520.02,"text":"的這個重點"},{"start":7520.02,"end":7522.02,"text":"那我想這個學校的這個組織跟運作"},{"start":7522.02,"end":7524.02,"text":"其實跟這個師資的"},{"start":7524.02,"end":7526.02,"text":"一個配置體制"},{"start":7526.02,"end":7528.02,"text":"其實如果不改的話其實偏鄉的"},{"start":7528.02,"end":7530.02,"text":"這個老師還是會被行政工作"},{"start":7530.02,"end":7532.02,"text":"給壓垮啦"},{"start":7532.02,"end":7534.02,"text":"那這個小規模的"},{"start":7534.02,"end":7536.02,"text":"因為偏鄉的學校其實因為他的規模"},{"start":7536.02,"end":7538.02,"text":"當然比較小"},{"start":7538.02,"end":7540.02,"text":"那他的編制當然也比較少"},{"start":7540.02,"end":7542.02,"text":"那過去其實不管是老師或者是"},{"start":7542.02,"end":7544.02,"text":"其他的一個教職人員或校長"},{"start":7544.02,"end":7546.02,"text":"幾乎都是包山包海喔"},{"start":7546.02,"end":7548.02,"text":"那這個部分其實"},{"start":7548.02,"end":7550.02,"text":"會這個負擔其實"},{"start":7550.02,"end":7552.02,"text":"會侵蝕了這個所有的教學品質"},{"start":7552.02,"end":7554.02,"text":"那所以在這個"},{"start":7554.02,"end":7556.02,"text":"我的版本當中"},{"start":7556.02,"end":7558.02,"text":"那"},{"start":7558.02,"end":7560.02,"text":"我本來有特別寫到"},{"start":7560.02,"end":7564.02,"text":"就是說應由區域教育資源中心集中支援"},{"start":7564.02,"end":7566.02,"text":"以減輕學校行政負擔"},{"start":7566.02,"end":7568.02,"text":"這個部分我有特別加這一塊喔"},{"start":7568.02,"end":7570.02,"text":"那教育部有說"},{"start":7570.02,"end":7572.02,"text":"要把應改成得"},{"start":7572.02,"end":7574.02,"text":"那這個部分其實我原則上"},{"start":7574.02,"end":7576.02,"text":"是OK的"},{"start":7576.02,"end":7578.02,"text":"那另外就是跨校合併跟巡迴教師補助的一個機制喔"},{"start":7578.02,"end":7580.02,"text":"那這個部分呢"},{"start":7580.02,"end":7582.02,"text":"這個特定專長領域"},{"start":7582.02,"end":7584.02,"text":"或者是單一學科不足的時候"},{"start":7584.02,"end":7586.02,"text":"學校的跨校"},{"start":7586.02,"end":7588.02,"text":"跨校聘任的合併"},{"start":7588.02,"end":7590.02,"text":"或者是巡迴教師"},{"start":7590.02,"end":7592.02,"text":"讓多所的小校也可以共享一位"},{"start":7592.02,"end":7594.02,"text":"這個專業的教師"},{"start":7594.02,"end":7596.02,"text":"不但能夠豐富這個課程的一個內容"},{"start":7596.02,"end":7598.02,"text":"當然也能夠確保人力跟資源的一個有效的配置"},{"start":7598.02,"end":7600.02,"text":"那"},{"start":7600.02,"end":7602.02,"text":"在交通費跟行政協調的一個成本"},{"start":7602.02,"end":7604.02,"text":"是由主管機關來編列預算來做補助喔"},{"start":7604.02,"end":7606.02,"text":"那免除這個學校跟教師"},{"start":7606.02,"end":7608.02,"text":"跨校吞播的後顧之憂喔"},{"start":7608.02,"end":7610.02,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":7610.02,"end":7612.02,"text":"好 謝謝郭一鈞委員"},{"start":7612.02,"end":7614.02,"text":"那陳秘瑋來請"},{"start":7614.02,"end":7616.02,"text":"好 第十條"},{"start":7616.02,"end":7618.02,"text":"好 第十條我的版本"},{"start":7618.02,"end":7620.02,"text":"其實重點是希望跟教育部討論"},{"start":7620.02,"end":7626.02,"text":"如何放寬偏遠地區學校特色課程的聘任限制"},{"start":7626.02,"end":7628.02,"text":"我們目前喔 其實在很多偏鄉"},{"start":7628.02,"end":7630.02,"text":"其實在偏鄉 我相信立華委員一定清楚"},{"start":7630.02,"end":7632.02,"text":"有很多部落其老啦"},{"start":7632.02,"end":7634.02,"text":"在地工藝師啦"},{"start":7634.02,"end":7636.02,"text":"在地的專業人士啦"},{"start":7636.02,"end":7638.02,"text":"甚至是返鄉創業的年輕人"},{"start":7638.02,"end":7640.02,"text":"他們其實身上"},{"start":7640.02,"end":7642.02,"text":"那個記憶十足"},{"start":7642.02,"end":7644.02,"text":"然後能力十足"},{"start":7644.02,"end":7646.02,"text":"所以我希望可以有明確的聘任管道"},{"start":7646.02,"end":7648.02,"text":"問題可以被解決"},{"start":7648.02,"end":7650.02,"text":"那可是在我的版本裡面"},{"start":7650.02,"end":7652.02,"text":"其實我寫到另外一個東西"},{"start":7652.02,"end":7654.02,"text":"叫做區域教育資源中心"},{"start":7654.02,"end":7656.02,"text":"這個其實我原本的設想"},{"start":7656.02,"end":7658.02,"text":"是更大範圍的討論"},{"start":7658.02,"end":7660.02,"text":"但因為今天時間有限"},{"start":7660.02,"end":7662.02,"text":"我就可能沒辦法多說"},{"start":7662.02,"end":7664.02,"text":"但我想我後續還是希望"},{"start":7664.02,"end":7666.02,"text":"持續跟國教署討論所謂區域教育資源中心"},{"start":7666.02,"end":7668.02,"text":"這個學校的聘任"},{"start":7668.02,"end":7670.02,"text":"其實是有可能的"},{"start":7670.02,"end":7672.02,"text":"但是我希望這個學校"},{"start":7672.02,"end":7674.02,"text":"我們可以跟國教署討論所謂區域教育資源中心"},{"start":7674.02,"end":7676.02,"text":"我們如何去整併資源"},{"start":7676.02,"end":7678.02,"text":"然後讓很多"},{"start":7678.02,"end":7680.02,"text":"在處理合併"},{"start":7680.02,"end":7682.02,"text":"合併啦或者是混淌教學啦"},{"start":7682.02,"end":7684.02,"text":"或者是一些師生人力的問題啦"},{"start":7684.02,"end":7686.02,"text":"設備的問題"},{"start":7686.02,"end":7688.02,"text":"我們有地區教育資源中心的概念"},{"start":7688.02,"end":7690.02,"text":"去統整這些概念"},{"start":7690.02,"end":7692.02,"text":"甚至是大家合併討論問題"},{"start":7692.02,"end":7694.02,"text":"因為確實很多地方的問題會有一致性"},{"start":7694.02,"end":7696.02,"text":"那人力不足的情況下"},{"start":7696.02,"end":7698.02,"text":"我們有沒有機會在共同討論機制底下去"},{"start":7698.02,"end":7700.02,"text":"處理偏鄉的問題"},{"start":7700.02,"end":7702.02,"text":"但是我知道今天大概沒有辦法細緻討論"},{"start":7702.02,"end":7706.02,"text":"可是我還是想先就區域教育資源中心提出看法"},{"start":7706.02,"end":7710.02,"text":"但我更關鍵希望讓部落企老在地公益師專業人士"},{"start":7710.02,"end":7712.02,"text":"可以盡效教特色課程這件事情"},{"start":7712.02,"end":7714.02,"text":"我們可以怎麼解決"},{"start":7714.02,"end":7716.02,"text":"以上"},{"start":7716.02,"end":7718.02,"text":"好 謝謝培育委員"},{"start":7718.02,"end":7720.02,"text":"是不是請教育部做回應"},{"start":7722.02,"end":7724.02,"text":"首先"},{"start":7724.02,"end":7726.02,"text":"大家們集中在這個區域教育資源中心"},{"start":7726.02,"end":7728.02,"text":"那這個耳後的條文也會再看到它"},{"start":7728.02,"end":7730.02,"text":"首先第十條"},{"start":7730.02,"end":7732.02,"text":"郭委員在提這個的時候"},{"start":7732.02,"end":7734.02,"text":"他是希望能夠"},{"start":7734.02,"end":7736.02,"text":"幫忙學校"},{"start":7736.02,"end":7738.02,"text":"然後減輕他的負擔"},{"start":7738.02,"end":7740.02,"text":"那其實剛好這一次七月"},{"start":7740.02,"end":7742.02,"text":"我們跟全國教育局長"},{"start":7742.02,"end":7744.02,"text":"就在提"},{"start":7744.02,"end":7746.02,"text":"聯合來辦一些事"},{"start":7746.02,"end":7748.02,"text":"譬如說五個學校"},{"start":7748.02,"end":7750.02,"text":"大家都在辦午餐採購"},{"start":7750.02,"end":7752.02,"text":"早一個學校幫忙就好了"},{"start":7752.02,"end":7754.02,"text":"其他學校連這件事都不用"},{"start":7754.02,"end":7756.02,"text":"他就不用講什麼行政減量"},{"start":7756.02,"end":7758.02,"text":"他就不用講什麼行政減量"},{"start":7758.02,"end":7760.02,"text":"他簡直就是行政減向"},{"start":7760.02,"end":7762.02,"text":"所以我們現在"},{"start":7762.02,"end":7764.02,"text":"用聯合行政的方式"},{"start":7764.02,"end":7766.02,"text":"讓很多的學校"},{"start":7766.02,"end":7768.02,"text":"可以"},{"start":7768.02,"end":7770.02,"text":"藉由一個主辦學校"},{"start":7770.02,"end":7772.02,"text":"來達到很多的行政工作免辦"},{"start":7772.02,"end":7774.02,"text":"的行政減量"},{"start":7774.02,"end":7776.02,"text":"那其實是"},{"start":7776.02,"end":7778.02,"text":"可能更"},{"start":7778.02,"end":7780.02,"text":"從根本去解決"},{"start":7780.02,"end":7782.02,"text":"學校的行政負荷"},{"start":7782.02,"end":7784.02,"text":"那其實為什麼"},{"start":7784.02,"end":7786.02,"text":"我們這邊會建議不得就好"},{"start":7786.02,"end":7788.02,"text":"因為這一個中心"},{"start":7788.02,"end":7790.02,"text":"他是任務編組"},{"start":7790.02,"end":7792.02,"text":"其實我剛才講到幾個偏鄉學校"},{"start":7792.02,"end":7794.02,"text":"或幾個學校聯合行政"},{"start":7794.02,"end":7796.02,"text":"他這幾個學校就可以辦"},{"start":7796.02,"end":7798.02,"text":"他不一定又要指定這個學校"},{"start":7798.02,"end":7800.02,"text":"或是這個中心"},{"start":7800.02,"end":7802.02,"text":"這個中心如果"},{"start":7802.02,"end":7804.02,"text":"他量能不夠又要承接太多"},{"start":7804.02,"end":7806.02,"text":"怕我們今年提的那個聯合行政"},{"start":7806.02,"end":7808.02,"text":"其實有點他的彈性"},{"start":7808.02,"end":7810.02,"text":"更大的彈性"},{"start":7810.02,"end":7812.02,"text":"會壓到這個中心而已"},{"start":7812.02,"end":7814.02,"text":"所以他要做可以"},{"start":7814.02,"end":7816.02,"text":"就不要用陰這樣子"},{"start":7816.02,"end":7818.02,"text":"那如果委員覺得說"},{"start":7818.02,"end":7820.02,"text":"這樣聽我講"},{"start":7820.02,"end":7822.02,"text":"好像又怕這個中心"},{"start":7822.02,"end":7824.02,"text":"又會承擔太多"},{"start":7824.02,"end":7826.02,"text":"以至於等一下後面"},{"start":7826.02,"end":7828.02,"text":"有許多偏鄉的事"},{"start":7828.02,"end":7830.02,"text":"他會不足"},{"start":7830.02,"end":7832.02,"text":"不敷應付"},{"start":7832.02,"end":7834.02,"text":"所以要不要這裡"},{"start":7834.02,"end":7836.02,"text":"因為已經有我們的聯合行政"},{"start":7836.02,"end":7838.02,"text":"達到委員的想法"},{"start":7838.02,"end":7840.02,"text":"這裡不要提他"},{"start":7840.02,"end":7842.02,"text":"所以他要用陰性的做"},{"start":7842.02,"end":7844.02,"text":"可能等一下後面有幾個條文是偏鄉"},{"start":7844.02,"end":7846.02,"text":"更要他幫忙的"},{"start":7846.02,"end":7848.02,"text":"我舉個例子"},{"start":7848.02,"end":7850.02,"text":"像桃園他的"},{"start":7850.02,"end":7852.02,"text":"山海線有兩個"},{"start":7852.02,"end":7854.02,"text":"然後園民有一個"},{"start":7854.02,"end":7856.02,"text":"他加在一起都是這一個"},{"start":7856.02,"end":7858.02,"text":"區域教育資源中心體系下"},{"start":7858.02,"end":7860.02,"text":"那他們去開發課程"},{"start":7860.02,"end":7862.02,"text":"辦理相關的教師"},{"start":7862.02,"end":7864.02,"text":"這個研習"},{"start":7864.02,"end":7866.02,"text":"那他都為他偏鄉的"},{"start":7866.02,"end":7868.02,"text":"那些學校"},{"start":7868.02,"end":7870.02,"text":"可是現在這樣寫"},{"start":7870.02,"end":7872.02,"text":"他會變成不特定"},{"start":7872.02,"end":7874.02,"text":"服務偏鄉學校"},{"start":7874.02,"end":7876.02,"text":"可是所有學校的"},{"start":7876.02,"end":7878.02,"text":"聯合行政我們本來就有一個計畫"},{"start":7878.02,"end":7880.02,"text":"所以"},{"start":7880.02,"end":7882.02,"text":"類似這樣專門去服務偏鄉的"},{"start":7882.02,"end":7884.02,"text":"這個偏鄉的區教"},{"start":7884.02,"end":7886.02,"text":"資源中心"},{"start":7886.02,"end":7888.02,"text":"要不要我們特別迷列他去"},{"start":7888.02,"end":7890.02,"text":"處理這樣的一個特定的行政工作"},{"start":7890.02,"end":7892.02,"text":"而是要他回到"},{"start":7892.02,"end":7894.02,"text":"去幫偏鄉專門就幫偏鄉"},{"start":7894.02,"end":7896.02,"text":"處理事情"},{"start":7896.02,"end":7898.02,"text":"而且我怕有些地方政府"},{"start":7898.02,"end":7900.02,"text":"以為他可以去做"},{"start":7900.02,"end":7902.02,"text":"我原來想要做的聯合行政"},{"start":7902.02,"end":7904.02,"text":"會誤會"},{"start":7904.02,"end":7906.02,"text":"因為那聯合行政是"},{"start":7906.02,"end":7908.02,"text":"塑效塑效這樣處理"},{"start":7908.02,"end":7910.02,"text":"不特定請他處理"},{"start":7910.02,"end":7912.02,"text":"結果他承擔太多"},{"start":7912.02,"end":7914.02,"text":"我們原來那一支原來的那個計畫"},{"start":7914.02,"end":7916.02,"text":"跟局處長已經談完計畫"},{"start":7916.02,"end":7918.02,"text":"就會有一點點"},{"start":7918.02,"end":7920.02,"text":"但是就是尊重才"},{"start":7920.02,"end":7922.02,"text":"所以最好不用"},{"start":7922.02,"end":7924.02,"text":"如果要請改成得"},{"start":7924.02,"end":7926.02,"text":"意思是這樣"},{"start":7926.02,"end":7928.02,"text":"至於培育委員想要了解說"},{"start":7928.02,"end":7930.02,"text":"特色這個"},{"start":7930.02,"end":7932.02,"text":"其實現行"},{"start":7932.02,"end":7934.02,"text":"我們的"},{"start":7934.02,"end":7936.02,"text":"課程中"},{"start":7936.02,"end":7938.02,"text":"有一個學校本位的"},{"start":7938.02,"end":7940.02,"text":"彈性學習課程"},{"start":7940.02,"end":7942.02,"text":"這個課程大概"},{"start":7942.02,"end":7944.02,"text":"國小到國中大概有三到七節"},{"start":7944.02,"end":7946.02,"text":"左右看他的學校"},{"start":7946.02,"end":7948.02,"text":"階段"},{"start":7948.02,"end":7950.02,"text":"有些要跟其他人有些是協同教學"},{"start":7950.02,"end":7952.02,"text":"大概這樣"},{"start":7952.02,"end":7954.02,"text":"透過教學資源人員"},{"start":7954.02,"end":7956.02,"text":"的認證可以獨立教學"},{"start":7956.02,"end":7958.02,"text":"大概是這樣有兩個管道"},{"start":7958.02,"end":7960.02,"text":"可以進來所以現在"},{"start":7960.02,"end":7962.02,"text":"也做得蠻多的"},{"start":7962.02,"end":7964.02,"text":"主教我知道可是因為"},{"start":7964.02,"end":7966.02,"text":"現在主要是"},{"start":7966.02,"end":7968.02,"text":"我的寫法是說得由學校報請"},{"start":7968.02,"end":7970.02,"text":"主管機關核定卓語放寬"},{"start":7970.02,"end":7972.02,"text":"資格後聘任為"},{"start":7972.02,"end":7974.02,"text":"特色課程是代課代理教師"},{"start":7974.02,"end":7976.02,"text":"因為你剛剛說不論是協同"},{"start":7976.02,"end":7978.02,"text":"教學或是他單獨自己可以進來"},{"start":7978.02,"end":7980.02,"text":"教學沒對教職人員"},{"start":7980.02,"end":7982.02,"text":"相關限制"},{"start":7982.02,"end":7984.02,"text":"在各個地方政府他們當然對於"},{"start":7984.02,"end":7986.02,"text":"這個特色課程各有不同的認定"},{"start":7986.02,"end":7988.02,"text":"當然我也認為教育裡面"},{"start":7988.02,"end":7990.02,"text":"的教師裡面專業度"},{"start":7990.02,"end":7992.02,"text":"當然是重要是請理解學生"},{"start":7992.02,"end":7994.02,"text":"理解班級經理理解課程設計"},{"start":7994.02,"end":7996.02,"text":"當然重要但是"},{"start":7996.02,"end":7998.02,"text":"當我們遇到這些特色課程想要把"},{"start":7998.02,"end":8000.02,"text":"地方起勞在地工醫師"},{"start":8000.02,"end":8002.02,"text":"或者是返鄉專業人士"},{"start":8002.02,"end":8004.02,"text":"年輕人邀請進學校去跟"},{"start":8004.02,"end":8006.02,"text":"學生們分享這些事情的時候"},{"start":8006.02,"end":8008.02,"text":"我們如何確保他們的"},{"start":8008.02,"end":8010.02,"text":"進去的管道是暢通的"},{"start":8010.02,"end":8012.02,"text":"然後學校也是方便容易"},{"start":8012.02,"end":8014.02,"text":"可以處理這個相關行政"},{"start":8014.02,"end":8016.02,"text":"流程這樣"},{"start":8016.02,"end":8018.02,"text":"還是說你覺得現在在處理上"},{"start":8018.02,"end":8020.02,"text":"只有個別縣市政府有問題"},{"start":8020.02,"end":8022.02,"text":"總體來說沒有問題"},{"start":8022.02,"end":8024.02,"text":"對謝謝委員的最後的小節"},{"start":8024.02,"end":8026.02,"text":"基本上我們如果聽到問題"},{"start":8026.02,"end":8028.02,"text":"不管是語言開課或是起勞"},{"start":8028.02,"end":8030.02,"text":"入校來開特色課程"},{"start":8030.02,"end":8032.02,"text":"教一個狩獵的文化"},{"start":8032.02,"end":8034.02,"text":"或是他們的"},{"start":8034.02,"end":8036.02,"text":"一些書怎麼去"},{"start":8036.02,"end":8038.02,"text":"書怎麼去迎見"},{"start":8038.02,"end":8040.02,"text":"這些我們常常都聽到"},{"start":8040.02,"end":8042.02,"text":"那我走訪很多偏鄉學校"},{"start":8042.02,"end":8044.02,"text":"這些偏鄉學校這些課程"},{"start":8044.02,"end":8046.02,"text":"都存在其中但是如果"},{"start":8046.02,"end":8048.02,"text":"有存在著比較困擾"},{"start":8048.02,"end":8050.02,"text":"讓委員覺得怎麼沒有辦法"},{"start":8050.02,"end":8052.02,"text":"來達成這個理想的"},{"start":8052.02,"end":8054.02,"text":"學校如果還有在的話"},{"start":8054.02,"end":8056.02,"text":"讓我跟地方政府在瞭解"},{"start":8056.02,"end":8058.02,"text":"是不是有特定情況的問題"},{"start":8058.02,"end":8060.02,"text":"否則以現在來講"},{"start":8060.02,"end":8062.02,"text":"我剛剛講的那個"},{"start":8062.02,"end":8064.02,"text":"是縣市學校運作還不錯的"},{"start":8064.02,"end":8066.02,"text":"我也看到很多成果"},{"start":8066.02,"end":8068.02,"text":"尤其在您講的這種特色課程"},{"start":8068.02,"end":8070.02,"text":"我們因為也很在乎"},{"start":8070.02,"end":8072.02,"text":"那也是學生還有在地的根"},{"start":8072.02,"end":8074.02,"text":"那個如果沒有人開課"},{"start":8074.02,"end":8076.02,"text":"一般的學科老師"},{"start":8076.02,"end":8078.02,"text":"也不一定那麼有時間"},{"start":8078.02,"end":8080.02,"text":"所以我們也很在乎"},{"start":8080.02,"end":8082.02,"text":"所以現在因為在乎還滿多這個課"},{"start":8082.02,"end":8084.02,"text":"百花齊放"},{"start":8084.02,"end":8086.02,"text":"如果有特定比較不理想的"},{"start":8086.02,"end":8088.02,"text":"可以讓我們知道謝謝"},{"start":8088.02,"end":8090.02,"text":"好謝謝署長的回應"},{"start":8090.02,"end":8092.02,"text":"來郭怡芹委員"},{"start":8092.02,"end":8094.02,"text":"剛剛署長其實有解釋過了"},{"start":8094.02,"end":8096.02,"text":"那我是想這個文字的部分"},{"start":8096.02,"end":8098.02,"text":"如果改成得比較不會有"},{"start":8098.02,"end":8100.02,"text":"比較不會有什麼樣的一個"},{"start":8100.02,"end":8102.02,"text":"其他衍生上的一個爭議"},{"start":8102.02,"end":8104.02,"text":"那這個部分是不是就可以"},{"start":8104.02,"end":8106.02,"text":"也這個等於是"},{"start":8106.02,"end":8108.02,"text":"認同我的這個版本"},{"start":8108.02,"end":8110.02,"text":"然後把音改成就是署長"},{"start":8110.02,"end":8112.02,"text":"認為要寫成得這樣子好不好"},{"start":8112.02,"end":8114.02,"text":"好以上"},{"start":8114.02,"end":8116.02,"text":"等一下"},{"start":8116.02,"end":8118.02,"text":"來謝謝主席"},{"start":8118.02,"end":8120.02,"text":"所以我問一下署長如果按照郭怡芹委員的版本"},{"start":8120.02,"end":8122.02,"text":"這個所謂的教育資源中心"},{"start":8122.02,"end":8124.02,"text":"現在已經有設立了嗎"},{"start":8124.02,"end":8126.02,"text":"還是他們只是彈性的工作"},{"start":8126.02,"end":8128.02,"text":"他是任務編組"},{"start":8128.02,"end":8130.02,"text":"他不是一個"},{"start":8130.02,"end":8132.02,"text":"編制的這種正式組織"},{"start":8132.02,"end":8134.02,"text":"他是因這個任務而產的"},{"start":8134.02,"end":8136.02,"text":"現在我們有補助他人"},{"start":8136.02,"end":8138.02,"text":"那現在就是說各縣市運作"},{"start":8138.02,"end":8140.02,"text":"有全區一個"},{"start":8140.02,"end":8142.02,"text":"也有把它分區來設的"},{"start":8142.02,"end":8144.02,"text":"所以這個形態比較多"},{"start":8144.02,"end":8146.02,"text":"那唯一我剛剛要說明的就是"},{"start":8146.02,"end":8148.02,"text":"不要讓"},{"start":8148.02,"end":8150.02,"text":"不要讓外面覺得這個區域教育資源中心"},{"start":8150.02,"end":8152.02,"text":"列了以後"},{"start":8152.02,"end":8154.02,"text":"怕有人認為說"},{"start":8154.02,"end":8156.02,"text":"他承擔的會更多雜事的這件事"},{"start":8156.02,"end":8158.02,"text":"這個我在"},{"start":8158.02,"end":8160.02,"text":"跟委員報告的過程中"},{"start":8160.02,"end":8162.02,"text":"一直很建議"},{"start":8162.02,"end":8164.02,"text":"如果不列是最好"},{"start":8164.02,"end":8166.02,"text":"那要列"},{"start":8166.02,"end":8168.02,"text":"用得都我都還會顧慮"},{"start":8168.02,"end":8170.02,"text":"這個區域教育資源中心"},{"start":8170.02,"end":8172.02,"text":"也常常是設在某個學校"},{"start":8172.02,"end":8174.02,"text":"他"},{"start":8174.02,"end":8176.02,"text":"他在獨立承擔"},{"start":8176.02,"end":8178.02,"text":"全部的整線的"},{"start":8178.02,"end":8180.02,"text":"偏鄉學校的"},{"start":8180.02,"end":8182.02,"text":"一些行政減量"},{"start":8182.02,"end":8184.02,"text":"怕他誤會說他已經"},{"start":8184.02,"end":8186.02,"text":"原來已經很忙"},{"start":8186.02,"end":8188.02,"text":"這次修法要加更多工作"},{"start":8188.02,"end":8190.02,"text":"這次又會加更多的"},{"start":8190.02,"end":8192.02,"text":"署長你總算知道我在問你什麼了"},{"start":8192.02,"end":8194.02,"text":"因為我的版本裡面"},{"start":8194.02,"end":8196.02,"text":"也有提到教育資源中心"},{"start":8196.02,"end":8198.02,"text":"那我們想要解決其實就是"},{"start":8198.02,"end":8200.02,"text":"我剛剛講其實不是只有行政的困境"},{"start":8200.02,"end":8202.02,"text":"包含很多教學的討論"},{"start":8202.02,"end":8204.02,"text":"社區環境的一些"},{"start":8204.02,"end":8206.02,"text":"所有裡面學校的教學跟行政"},{"start":8206.02,"end":8208.02,"text":"都可以由教育資源中心來處理"},{"start":8208.02,"end":8210.02,"text":"所以如果你今天"},{"start":8210.02,"end":8212.02,"text":"認為國語情的版本可以過"},{"start":8212.02,"end":8214.02,"text":"那後續我覺得沒有問題喔"},{"start":8214.02,"end":8216.02,"text":"那只是因為為什麼我剛剛問你"},{"start":8216.02,"end":8218.02,"text":"你說是任務編組有專屬人力"},{"start":8218.02,"end":8220.02,"text":"然後現在很多縣市是附屬於某一個學校"},{"start":8220.02,"end":8222.02,"text":"但是這個區域"},{"start":8222.02,"end":8224.02,"text":"教育資源中心他所涵蓋"},{"start":8224.02,"end":8226.02,"text":"寒闊的"},{"start":8226.02,"end":8228.02,"text":"服務學校內容有多大"},{"start":8228.02,"end":8230.02,"text":"你可以舉例給我聽嗎"},{"start":8230.02,"end":8232.02,"text":"例如說以桃園的偏鄉或是花蓮的偏鄉"},{"start":8232.02,"end":8234.02,"text":"那任務編組他要服務多少學校"},{"start":8234.02,"end":8236.02,"text":"還是花蓮就一個然後服務所有花蓮的學校"},{"start":8236.02,"end":8238.02,"text":"這個就很不一啦"},{"start":8238.02,"end":8240.02,"text":"有一個縣市"},{"start":8240.02,"end":8242.02,"text":"他可能全區的話就"},{"start":8242.02,"end":8244.02,"text":"四五十個學校"},{"start":8244.02,"end":8246.02,"text":"那以我講那個桃園"},{"start":8246.02,"end":8248.02,"text":"他附近一個區大概就十個學校"},{"start":8248.02,"end":8250.02,"text":"用一個聯盟"},{"start":8250.02,"end":8252.02,"text":"然後他另外的偏鄉學校"},{"start":8252.02,"end":8254.02,"text":"劃兩個國中國小"},{"start":8254.02,"end":8256.02,"text":"那這樣每個單元"},{"start":8256.02,"end":8258.02,"text":"就要負責有十"},{"start":8258.02,"end":8260.02,"text":"到甚至三十個學校"},{"start":8260.02,"end":8262.02,"text":"這個是有分區的"},{"start":8262.02,"end":8264.02,"text":"如果我找一個沒有分區"},{"start":8264.02,"end":8266.02,"text":"只有唯一的"},{"start":8266.02,"end":8268.02,"text":"那他有時候他一負責就超過五十個學校"},{"start":8268.02,"end":8270.02,"text":"所以有一些是"},{"start":8270.02,"end":8272.02,"text":"我剛才講的意思是說"},{"start":8272.02,"end":8274.02,"text":"如果能不列"},{"start":8274.02,"end":8276.02,"text":"盡量不用列在這裡"},{"start":8276.02,"end":8278.02,"text":"因為現在談的這個剛好我們已經有一個聯合行政的機制"},{"start":8278.02,"end":8280.02,"text":"那至於培育委員講說"},{"start":8280.02,"end":8282.02,"text":"他要去開發一些或是鏈結一些"},{"start":8282.02,"end":8284.02,"text":"起勞讓他有一個人才庫"},{"start":8284.02,"end":8286.02,"text":"這等下後面會有一些"},{"start":8286.02,"end":8288.02,"text":"好的做法"},{"start":8288.02,"end":8290.02,"text":"那現在這個區域資源中心現在承擔的"},{"start":8290.02,"end":8292.02,"text":"慢慢的要給他"},{"start":8292.02,"end":8294.02,"text":"在這個偏鄉的服務上"},{"start":8294.02,"end":8296.02,"text":"更專業"},{"start":8296.02,"end":8298.02,"text":"那現在有些行政工作"},{"start":8298.02,"end":8300.02,"text":"不要那麼快覺得他可以做得來"},{"start":8300.02,"end":8302.02,"text":"他可能會爆量"},{"start":8302.02,"end":8304.02,"text":"然後以至於原來"},{"start":8304.02,"end":8306.02,"text":"像培育委員講的那些專業的課程的"},{"start":8306.02,"end":8308.02,"text":"人才鏈結的"},{"start":8308.02,"end":8310.02,"text":"他可能更要做那一個"},{"start":8310.02,"end":8312.02,"text":"是不是可以這一次"},{"start":8312.02,"end":8314.02,"text":"還不要那麼快把它列在"},{"start":8314.02,"end":8316.02,"text":"普遍性的行政的角色"},{"start":8316.02,"end":8318.02,"text":"好我沒意見了"},{"start":8318.02,"end":8320.02,"text":"可以啊"},{"start":8320.02,"end":8322.02,"text":"那請教一下大家"},{"start":8322.02,"end":8324.02,"text":"因為我們在討論剛才的第九條"},{"start":8324.02,"end":8326.02,"text":"是回頭再討論"},{"start":8326.02,"end":8328.02,"text":"要修正一下文字"},{"start":8328.02,"end":8330.02,"text":"那第十條目前這一條的話"},{"start":8330.02,"end":8332.02,"text":"我是要建議"},{"start":8332.02,"end":8334.02,"text":"問一下因為剛才前面的"},{"start":8334.02,"end":8336.02,"text":"四七八"},{"start":8336.02,"end":8338.02,"text":"都已經被保留"},{"start":8338.02,"end":8340.02,"text":"所以他九十"},{"start":8340.02,"end":8342.02,"text":"即便是第九條"},{"start":8342.02,"end":8344.02,"text":"也今天可能出不了委員會"},{"start":8344.02,"end":8346.02,"text":"對因為他會被連動剛才的"},{"start":8346.02,"end":8348.02,"text":"四七八條他沒有獨立"},{"start":8348.02,"end":8350.02,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":8350.02,"end":8352.02,"text":"是不是建議"},{"start":8352.02,"end":8354.02,"text":"那第九條第十條"},{"start":8354.02,"end":8356.02,"text":"雖然我們正在努力修正文字"},{"start":8356.02,"end":8358.02,"text":"但是是不是也就連動"},{"start":8358.02,"end":8360.02,"text":"四七八條一起暫時做保留"},{"start":8360.02,"end":8362.02,"text":"可以喔"},{"start":8362.02,"end":8364.02,"text":"但是我們至少今天"},{"start":8364.02,"end":8366.02,"text":"感覺上這些被保留的"},{"start":8366.02,"end":8368.02,"text":"都是要再下一次"},{"start":8368.02,"end":8370.02,"text":"會看到比較正確的文字"},{"start":8370.02,"end":8372.02,"text":"好謝謝大家"},{"start":8372.02,"end":8374.02,"text":"那第十條"},{"start":8374.02,"end":8376.02,"text":"我們就做暫時保留"},{"start":8376.02,"end":8378.02,"text":"我們往前推進到第十一條"},{"start":8378.02,"end":8380.02,"text":"條文修正"},{"start":8380.02,"end":8382.02,"text":"由委員郭育芹等十八人"},{"start":8382.02,"end":8384.02,"text":"一個提案"},{"start":8384.02,"end":8386.02,"text":"沒有被連動到"},{"start":8386.02,"end":8388.02,"text":"來郭育芹委員要做說明"},{"start":8392.02,"end":8394.02,"text":"好這個第十一條"},{"start":8394.02,"end":8396.02,"text":"其實因為是這個偏鄉小校的"},{"start":8396.02,"end":8398.02,"text":"食物的狀況比較複雜"},{"start":8398.02,"end":8400.02,"text":"那有些孩子其實他有時候"},{"start":8400.02,"end":8402.02,"text":"那些所謂的混零教學"},{"start":8402.02,"end":8404.02,"text":"或者是他學習的落差比較大"},{"start":8404.02,"end":8406.02,"text":"那是針對"},{"start":8406.02,"end":8408.02,"text":"這個特殊教育跟情緒輔導的"},{"start":8408.02,"end":8410.02,"text":"一些多元的一個需求"},{"start":8410.02,"end":8412.02,"text":"那我特別在這個地方"},{"start":8412.02,"end":8414.02,"text":"其實比較著重的"},{"start":8414.02,"end":8416.02,"text":"一個重點是在於這個專案"},{"start":8416.02,"end":8418.02,"text":"增加的增至的一個"},{"start":8418.02,"end":8420.02,"text":"教師的一個原文"},{"start":8420.02,"end":8422.02,"text":"是不是可以給這個學校跟地方主管"},{"start":8422.02,"end":8424.02,"text":"機關有一個比較明確的一個法院"},{"start":8424.02,"end":8426.02,"text":"的依據那來確保"},{"start":8426.02,"end":8428.02,"text":"就是有這些特殊教學"},{"start":8428.02,"end":8430.02,"text":"然後又可以申請這個"},{"start":8430.02,"end":8432.02,"text":"額外的一個人力"},{"start":8432.02,"end":8434.02,"text":"那確保這個教學的品質不會因為人力"},{"start":8434.02,"end":8436.02,"text":"的不足的部分"},{"start":8436.02,"end":8438.02,"text":"來受限"},{"start":8438.02,"end":8440.02,"text":"那再來第二點的部分其實就是在於"},{"start":8440.02,"end":8442.02,"text":"這個區域教育的這個資源中心"},{"start":8442.02,"end":8444.02,"text":"統籌的一個資源"},{"start":8444.02,"end":8446.02,"text":"那我想現行我們是以這個國中"},{"start":8446.02,"end":8448.02,"text":"學區為這個範圍"},{"start":8448.02,"end":8450.02,"text":"那實務上其實偏鄉的學區"},{"start":8450.02,"end":8452.02,"text":"比較廣大那單一的一個學區"},{"start":8452.02,"end":8454.02,"text":"配置這個常常會導致"},{"start":8454.02,"end":8456.02,"text":"一些人力尤其是輔導人力"},{"start":8456.02,"end":8458.02,"text":"的這個半打獨鬥"},{"start":8458.02,"end":8460.02,"text":"那資源其實沒有辦法能夠"},{"start":8460.02,"end":8462.02,"text":"靈活的這個調配"},{"start":8462.02,"end":8464.02,"text":"那所以如果是透過這個區域"},{"start":8464.02,"end":8466.02,"text":"中心的一個統籌的一個管理"},{"start":8466.02,"end":8468.02,"text":"將輔導跟社工的人力能夠集中"},{"start":8468.02,"end":8470.02,"text":"再用跨校巡迴"},{"start":8470.02,"end":8472.02,"text":"或者是助校服務的"},{"start":8472.02,"end":8474.02,"text":"這樣子一個彈性的方式"},{"start":8474.02,"end":8476.02,"text":"來支援多所的這些"},{"start":8476.02,"end":8478.02,"text":"小校的這樣子"},{"start":8478.02,"end":8480.02,"text":"的一個兩個修法的一個"},{"start":8480.02,"end":8482.02,"text":"重點我是放在第十一條當中"},{"start":8482.02,"end":8484.02,"text":"如果說教育部有什麼樣"},{"start":8484.02,"end":8486.02,"text":"的一個這個"},{"start":8486.02,"end":8488.02,"text":"如果不建議修正"},{"start":8488.02,"end":8490.02,"text":"或者是其他你們有什麼要補充的話"},{"start":8490.02,"end":8492.02,"text":"是不是等一下請教育部來說明一下"},{"start":8492.02,"end":8494.02,"text":"好教育部要不要做說明"},{"start":8494.02,"end":8496.02,"text":"好"},{"start":8496.02,"end":8498.02,"text":"首先委員這邊有兩個問題"},{"start":8498.02,"end":8500.02,"text":"一個是"},{"start":8500.02,"end":8502.02,"text":"委員有兩個問題一個是偏鄉"},{"start":8502.02,"end":8504.02,"text":"看起來有一些"},{"start":8504.02,"end":8506.02,"text":"資源不足尤其人力能不能夠"},{"start":8506.02,"end":8508.02,"text":"因特殊的需求時給他"},{"start":8508.02,"end":8510.02,"text":"專案增加員額"},{"start":8510.02,"end":8512.02,"text":"另外一個就是有關的這個輔導"},{"start":8512.02,"end":8514.02,"text":"人員這個人力"},{"start":8514.02,"end":8516.02,"text":"首先前面第一個問題我們看一下"},{"start":8516.02,"end":8518.02,"text":"其實院裡面在"},{"start":8518.02,"end":8520.02,"text":"大院在修國教法的時候就"},{"start":8520.02,"end":8522.02,"text":"注意到員額"},{"start":8522.02,"end":8524.02,"text":"這個員額準則國小國中"},{"start":8524.02,"end":8526.02,"text":"的部分在"},{"start":8526.02,"end":8528.02,"text":"新修的員額準則"},{"start":8528.02,"end":8530.02,"text":"就已經有涵蓋育情委員"},{"start":8530.02,"end":8532.02,"text":"的意見也就是說"},{"start":8532.02,"end":8534.02,"text":"偏鄉跟一般學校"},{"start":8534.02,"end":8536.02,"text":"他員額就不一樣"},{"start":8536.02,"end":8538.02,"text":"那我們稱"},{"start":8538.02,"end":8540.02,"text":"他為合理員額"},{"start":8540.02,"end":8542.02,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":8542.02,"end":8544.02,"text":"學生的總結數多少"},{"start":8544.02,"end":8546.02,"text":"然後再加上可能"},{"start":8546.02,"end":8548.02,"text":"兼任他可能要兼"},{"start":8548.02,"end":8550.02,"text":"行政有多少結"},{"start":8550.02,"end":8552.02,"text":"變成分子然後再看"},{"start":8552.02,"end":8554.02,"text":"那個學校的人數"},{"start":8554.02,"end":8556.02,"text":"一人要交多少結"},{"start":8556.02,"end":8558.02,"text":"這一個除出來就是"},{"start":8558.02,"end":8560.02,"text":"這一個偏鄉應有"},{"start":8560.02,"end":8562.02,"text":"的員額數這個比起"},{"start":8562.02,"end":8564.02,"text":"那個一般地區"},{"start":8564.02,"end":8566.02,"text":"是用得他是"},{"start":8566.02,"end":8568.02,"text":"強制要增加的而且他是"},{"start":8568.02,"end":8570.02,"text":"考慮學生的學習所以他是"},{"start":8570.02,"end":8572.02,"text":"很合理的而不是像以前"},{"start":8572.02,"end":8574.02,"text":"我們就直接用班數去乘出多少"},{"start":8574.02,"end":8576.02,"text":"人他是用學習結束"},{"start":8576.02,"end":8578.02,"text":"算出來的所以委員剛才講的"},{"start":8578.02,"end":8580.02,"text":"那個需求就會在那裡面"},{"start":8580.02,"end":8582.02,"text":"比較完整的背包有時候會增加"},{"start":8582.02,"end":8584.02,"text":"到一兩個人"},{"start":8584.02,"end":8586.02,"text":"那接著是"},{"start":8586.02,"end":8588.02,"text":"專業輔導成員這也是謝謝委員"},{"start":8588.02,"end":8590.02,"text":"委員這一任修了學生輔導"},{"start":8590.02,"end":8592.02,"text":"法這學生輔導法為我們"},{"start":8592.02,"end":8594.02,"text":"偏鄉地區的專業人員"},{"start":8594.02,"end":8596.02,"text":"增加了一些員額那這一次"},{"start":8596.02,"end":8598.02,"text":"我算一下增加222位"},{"start":8598.02,"end":8600.02,"text":"那這222位"},{"start":8600.02,"end":8602.02,"text":"現在已經聘到了170位"},{"start":8602.02,"end":8604.02,"text":"還在有50位"},{"start":8604.02,"end":8606.02,"text":"繼續聘那他"},{"start":8606.02,"end":8608.02,"text":"給的方法是這樣"},{"start":8608.02,"end":8610.02,"text":"他就以國中為學區"},{"start":8610.02,"end":8612.02,"text":"給到那邊去但是他不是給到那個國中"},{"start":8612.02,"end":8614.02,"text":"他是給國中那個學區"},{"start":8614.02,"end":8616.02,"text":"範圍的那些學校"},{"start":8616.02,"end":8618.02,"text":"所以他完全達到"},{"start":8618.02,"end":8620.02,"text":"郭委員的講法他不會拿回去"},{"start":8620.02,"end":8622.02,"text":"反而統籌調度就沒有意思了"},{"start":8622.02,"end":8624.02,"text":"他就是調度到"},{"start":8624.02,"end":8626.02,"text":"那一個區塊內的所有的"},{"start":8626.02,"end":8628.02,"text":"需要協助的專業"},{"start":8628.02,"end":8630.02,"text":"事項所以以上"},{"start":8630.02,"end":8632.02,"text":"郭委員講這兩個很重要"},{"start":8632.02,"end":8634.02,"text":"目前因為我們的"},{"start":8634.02,"end":8636.02,"text":"執法都定了跟委員回報一下"},{"start":8636.02,"end":8638.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8638.02,"end":8640.02,"text":"好那關於第11條"},{"start":8640.02,"end":8642.02,"text":"來"},{"start":8642.02,"end":8644.02,"text":"來 玉琴那這個部分"},{"start":8644.02,"end":8646.02,"text":"剛剛有提到這個修法"},{"start":8646.02,"end":8648.02,"text":"已經有增就是偏鄉的部分"},{"start":8648.02,"end":8650.02,"text":"其實有增加了"},{"start":8650.02,"end":8652.02,"text":"輔導專業人員"},{"start":8652.02,"end":8654.02,"text":"我還是有提這個附帶決議"},{"start":8654.02,"end":8656.02,"text":"那我想這個部分當然"},{"start":8656.02,"end":8658.02,"text":"以這樣子的方向就是"},{"start":8658.02,"end":8660.02,"text":"以學校的實際的一個需求"},{"start":8660.02,"end":8662.02,"text":"來協調跟調度這個相關的"},{"start":8662.02,"end":8664.02,"text":"專業人力那這個部分"},{"start":8664.02,"end":8666.02,"text":"就是附帶決議的部分"},{"start":8666.02,"end":8668.02,"text":"來補強這一塊好嗎"},{"start":8668.02,"end":8670.02,"text":"好以上"},{"start":8670.02,"end":8672.02,"text":"好那規矩委員有附帶決議"},{"start":8672.02,"end":8674.02,"text":"所以針對"},{"start":8674.02,"end":8676.02,"text":"那個附帶決議的部分"},{"start":8676.02,"end":8678.02,"text":"照案通過嗎"},{"start":8682.02,"end":8684.02,"text":"沒有"},{"start":8684.02,"end":8686.02,"text":"郭委員那部分"},{"start":8686.02,"end":8688.02,"text":"好"},{"start":8688.02,"end":8690.02,"text":"好OK"},{"start":8690.02,"end":8692.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8692.02,"end":8694.02,"text":"那我們第11條就"},{"start":8694.02,"end":8696.02,"text":"不予修正嗎"},{"start":8696.02,"end":8698.02,"text":"有附帶決議"},{"start":8698.02,"end":8700.02,"text":"不予修正維持現行條文"},{"start":8700.02,"end":8702.02,"text":"然後依照附帶決議"},{"start":8702.02,"end":8704.02,"text":"來執行"},{"start":8704.02,"end":8706.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":8708.02,"end":8710.02,"text":"好照案通過"},{"start":8710.02,"end":8712.02,"text":"接下來推進到"},{"start":8712.02,"end":8714.02,"text":"附帶決議"},{"start":8714.02,"end":8716.02,"text":"就不予修正維持現行條文"},{"start":8716.02,"end":8718.02,"text":"然後附帶決議的部分"},{"start":8718.02,"end":8720.02,"text":"照案通過"},{"start":8720.02,"end":8722.02,"text":"現在推進到第12條"},{"start":8722.02,"end":8724.02,"text":"第12條條文修正有"},{"start":8724.02,"end":8726.02,"text":"委員盧憲怡等20人"},{"start":8726.02,"end":8728.02,"text":"等6個提案"},{"start":8728.02,"end":8730.02,"text":"以及五立華"},{"start":8730.02,"end":8732.02,"text":"委員的修正動議"},{"start":8732.02,"end":8734.02,"text":"好那這個部分"},{"start":8734.02,"end":8736.02,"text":"我們是不是"},{"start":8736.02,"end":8738.02,"text":"來發言那好來"},{"start":8738.02,"end":8740.02,"text":"請委員"},{"start":8740.02,"end":8742.02,"text":"好這個我記得在"},{"start":8742.02,"end":8744.02,"text":"前幾個會期其實我有"},{"start":8744.02,"end":8746.02,"text":"特別講到就是"},{"start":8746.02,"end":8748.02,"text":"拼箱的距離這個交通工具還有這個"},{"start":8748.02,"end":8750.02,"text":"就是國小距離"},{"start":8750.02,"end":8752.02,"text":"5公里以上然後沒有交通工具"},{"start":8752.02,"end":8754.02,"text":"或者是映射這個分校或人分班"},{"start":8754.02,"end":8756.02,"text":"的一個部分"},{"start":8756.02,"end":8758.02,"text":"那這個地理環境其實極為"},{"start":8758.02,"end":8760.02,"text":"複雜喔所以這個"},{"start":8760.02,"end":8762.02,"text":"第12條的部分"},{"start":8762.02,"end":8764.02,"text":"其實我特別強調"},{"start":8764.02,"end":8766.02,"text":"的就是實質危險或者是"},{"start":8766.02,"end":8768.02,"text":"不便的一個部分"},{"start":8768.02,"end":8770.02,"text":"就是增訂這樣子的一個目的其實"},{"start":8770.02,"end":8772.02,"text":"是為了就是"},{"start":8772.02,"end":8774.02,"text":"即使沒有達到5公里的一個距離"},{"start":8774.02,"end":8776.02,"text":"但是因為他的地理環境還有"},{"start":8776.02,"end":8778.02,"text":"他的交通運輸的狀況還有入況"},{"start":8778.02,"end":8780.02,"text":"的一個限制那有可能"},{"start":8780.02,"end":8782.02,"text":"會就是導致他們"},{"start":8782.02,"end":8784.02,"text":"其實在上學"},{"start":8784.02,"end":8786.02,"text":"的落途當中的一些"},{"start":8786.02,"end":8788.02,"text":"不便利性啦那所以"},{"start":8788.02,"end":8790.02,"text":"當然這個地方"},{"start":8790.02,"end":8792.02,"text":"如果教育部你們有什麼樣"},{"start":8792.02,"end":8794.02,"text":"的一個建議我等一下也會提"},{"start":8794.02,"end":8796.02,"text":"如果對阿就是擔心會有一些"},{"start":8796.02,"end":8798.02,"text":"所謂的這個定義跟模糊上的"},{"start":8798.02,"end":8800.02,"text":"一個空間我有這個"},{"start":8800.02,"end":8802.02,"text":"附帶決議的部分"},{"start":8804.02,"end":8806.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":8806.02,"end":8808.02,"text":"那我自己有版本"},{"start":8808.02,"end":8810.02,"text":"原來有一個版本我今天"},{"start":8810.02,"end":8812.02,"text":"又做了修正統一一個版本"},{"start":8812.02,"end":8814.02,"text":"那我跟大家說明一下"},{"start":8814.02,"end":8816.02,"text":"因為上上個禮拜"},{"start":8816.02,"end":8818.02,"text":"我們教育文化委員會有排"},{"start":8818.02,"end":8820.02,"text":"考察到司馬庫斯"},{"start":8820.02,"end":8822.02,"text":"所以呢我特別"},{"start":8822.02,"end":8824.02,"text":"就現況我做了"},{"start":8824.02,"end":8826.02,"text":"修正動議但是他的背景"},{"start":8826.02,"end":8828.02,"text":"我還是讓各位了解一下"},{"start":8828.02,"end":8830.02,"text":"首先我覺得既然叫做偏鄉"},{"start":8830.02,"end":8832.02,"text":"教育條例"},{"start":8832.02,"end":8834.02,"text":"那就是來"},{"start":8834.02,"end":8836.02,"text":"解決偏鄉"},{"start":8836.02,"end":8838.02,"text":"的一個困境而不是為"},{"start":8838.02,"end":8840.02,"text":"偏鄉再創造一個限制"},{"start":8840.02,"end":8842.02,"text":"那在這邊"},{"start":8842.02,"end":8844.02,"text":"司馬庫斯是一個"},{"start":8844.02,"end":8846.02,"text":"很特別的部落因為"},{"start":8846.02,"end":8848.02,"text":"他在30年前"},{"start":8848.02,"end":8850.02,"text":"才開始有道路"},{"start":8850.02,"end":8852.02,"text":"30年前可以進入到"},{"start":8852.02,"end":8854.02,"text":"部落"},{"start":8854.02,"end":8856.02,"text":"那之前怎麼辦呢"},{"start":8856.02,"end":8858.02,"text":"他們要上學是到"},{"start":8858.02,"end":8860.02,"text":"1200米吧"},{"start":8860.02,"end":8862.02,"text":"海拔高的對岸"},{"start":8862.02,"end":8864.02,"text":"所以他們上學是要"},{"start":8864.02,"end":8866.02,"text":"下河谷再爬上高山"},{"start":8866.02,"end":8868.02,"text":"到對岸的星光國小"},{"start":8868.02,"end":8870.02,"text":"那後來有了路之後呢"},{"start":8870.02,"end":8872.02,"text":"他們決定"},{"start":8872.02,"end":8874.02,"text":"在23年前"},{"start":8874.02,"end":8876.02,"text":"就自己"},{"start":8876.02,"end":8878.02,"text":"把孩子留在"},{"start":8878.02,"end":8880.02,"text":"自己的部落"},{"start":8880.02,"end":8882.02,"text":"因為即便後來有路"},{"start":8882.02,"end":8884.02,"text":"他們不希望孩子就是"},{"start":8884.02,"end":8886.02,"text":"一個半小時的車程"},{"start":8886.02,"end":8888.02,"text":"去星光"},{"start":8888.02,"end":8890.02,"text":"所以他們最後決定在自己的土地"},{"start":8890.02,"end":8892.02,"text":"自己蓋房子"},{"start":8892.02,"end":8894.02,"text":"所以在這裡他們會"},{"start":8894.02,"end":8896.02,"text":"碰到兩個問題"},{"start":8896.02,"end":8898.02,"text":"也就是說他們已經23年來呢"},{"start":8898.02,"end":8900.02,"text":"是非法設效啦"},{"start":8900.02,"end":8902.02,"text":"但是我不能講非法"},{"start":8902.02,"end":8904.02,"text":"應該是說"},{"start":8904.02,"end":8906.02,"text":"要怎麼說呢"},{"start":8908.02,"end":8910.02,"text":"灰色地帶"},{"start":8910.02,"end":8912.02,"text":"定位的一個學校"},{"start":8912.02,"end":8914.02,"text":"那因為他們的"},{"start":8914.02,"end":8916.02,"text":"不是正式的學校"},{"start":8916.02,"end":8918.02,"text":"不是正式的分班"},{"start":8918.02,"end":8920.02,"text":"不是正式的分校"},{"start":8920.02,"end":8922.02,"text":"所以他們的老師編制"},{"start":8922.02,"end":8924.02,"text":"是不足的"},{"start":8924.02,"end":8926.02,"text":"因為他們把孩子雖然留下來"},{"start":8926.02,"end":8928.02,"text":"但是因為不是合理"},{"start":8928.02,"end":8930.02,"text":"合法的設效"},{"start":8930.02,"end":8932.02,"text":"那我在6年前"},{"start":8932.02,"end":8934.02,"text":"因為看到這個困境"},{"start":8934.02,"end":8936.02,"text":"謝謝國教署"},{"start":8936.02,"end":8938.02,"text":"謝謝新竹縣政府"},{"start":8938.02,"end":8940.02,"text":"用一些原而編制"},{"start":8940.02,"end":8942.02,"text":"就是讓他們可以增補一些"},{"start":8942.02,"end":8944.02,"text":"老師"},{"start":8944.02,"end":8946.02,"text":"可是我們必須還是要處理"},{"start":8946.02,"end":8948.02,"text":"他們土地的問題"},{"start":8948.02,"end":8950.02,"text":"那這6年來他們的"},{"start":8950.02,"end":8952.02,"text":"新辦事業計畫"},{"start":8952.02,"end":8954.02,"text":"已經快要處理完畢"},{"start":8954.02,"end":8956.02,"text":"也就是說土地即將要合法"},{"start":8956.02,"end":8958.02,"text":"但是他們又碰到另外一個"},{"start":8958.02,"end":8960.02,"text":"問題就是"},{"start":8960.02,"end":8962.02,"text":"他們上面蓋的這些校舍"},{"start":8962.02,"end":8964.02,"text":"而且都是用檜木蓋的校舍"},{"start":8964.02,"end":8966.02,"text":"那只是因為礙於建築法規"},{"start":8966.02,"end":8968.02,"text":"所以也沒有辦法取得"},{"start":8968.02,"end":8970.02,"text":"合法的實踐照"},{"start":8970.02,"end":8972.02,"text":"因此我們可能要透過"},{"start":8972.02,"end":8974.02,"text":"偏鄉教育條例的修法"},{"start":8974.02,"end":8976.02,"text":"來幫助他們"},{"start":8976.02,"end":8978.02,"text":"未來可以保住他們"},{"start":8978.02,"end":8980.02,"text":"所蓋的這一些校舍"},{"start":8980.02,"end":8982.02,"text":"那不是沒有"},{"start":8982.02,"end":8984.02,"text":"潛力可以援引有的"},{"start":8984.02,"end":8986.02,"text":"因為現在政府"},{"start":8986.02,"end":8988.02,"text":"推動長照"},{"start":8988.02,"end":8990.02,"text":"所以呢讓現在偏鄉"},{"start":8990.02,"end":8992.02,"text":"地區的這一些"},{"start":8992.02,"end":8994.02,"text":"沒有合法實踐照的建物"},{"start":8994.02,"end":8996.02,"text":"是用安全結構"},{"start":8996.02,"end":8998.02,"text":"來去做替代"},{"start":8998.02,"end":9000.02,"text":"所以這個是已經行之有年"},{"start":9000.02,"end":9002.02,"text":"那我們現在就是希望說"},{"start":9002.02,"end":9004.02,"text":"有沒有可能"},{"start":9004.02,"end":9006.02,"text":"在這個第12條的部分呢"},{"start":9006.02,"end":9008.02,"text":"我們有做出修正動議"},{"start":9008.02,"end":9010.02,"text":"大家可以稍微看一下"},{"start":9010.02,"end":9012.02,"text":"也可以的話就"},{"start":9012.02,"end":9014.02,"text":"打在我們的螢幕上"},{"start":9014.02,"end":9016.02,"text":"就是特別希望"},{"start":9016.02,"end":9018.02,"text":"不受國民教育法第42條"},{"start":9018.02,"end":9020.02,"text":"把它增列上去"},{"start":9020.02,"end":9022.02,"text":"不要受國教法第42條"},{"start":9022.02,"end":9024.02,"text":"然後在本條文的"},{"start":9024.02,"end":9026.02,"text":"第一項及第二項"},{"start":9026.02,"end":9028.02,"text":"之分校分班或教學場所"},{"start":9028.02,"end":9030.02,"text":"位於中央原住民族主管機關"},{"start":9030.02,"end":9032.02,"text":"報請行政院核定"},{"start":9032.02,"end":9034.02,"text":"之原住民族地區山地鄉"},{"start":9034.02,"end":9036.02,"text":"經地方主管機關"},{"start":9036.02,"end":9038.02,"text":"認定確無危險之虞者"},{"start":9038.02,"end":9040.02,"text":"於領有建築物"},{"start":9040.02,"end":9042.02,"text":"使用執照或合法實踐照"},{"start":9042.02,"end":9044.02,"text":"而在本條文的第1項"},{"start":9044.02,"end":9046.02,"text":"及第2項之分校分班或教學場所"},{"start":9046.02,"end":9048.02,"text":"位於中央原住民族主管機關"},{"start":9048.02,"end":9050.02,"text":"經執行建築物使用執照或"},{"start":9050.02,"end":9052.02,"text":"合法使用證明文件之前"},{"start":9052.02,"end":9054.02,"text":"得以取得"},{"start":9054.02,"end":9056.02,"text":"職業之建築師土木工程"},{"start":9056.0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2,"end":9300.02,"text":"我想應該好對教育部"},{"start":9300.02,"end":9302.02,"text":"應該沒有問題可以比較辦理"},{"start":9302.02,"end":9304.02,"text":"好配合辦理我們也會新聞各縣市"},{"start":9304.02,"end":9306.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9306.02,"end":9308.02,"text":"好謝謝那我先來宣讀"},{"start":9308.02,"end":9310.02,"text":"第十二條照委員"},{"start":9310.02,"end":9312.02,"text":"吳立華等人所提修正"},{"start":9312.02,"end":9314.02,"text":"動議修正通過"},{"start":9314.02,"end":9316.02,"text":"那第十二條有委員提出的"},{"start":9316.02,"end":9318.02,"text":"附帶決議"},{"start":9318.02,"end":9320.02,"text":"郭育芹委員等人提案附帶決議"},{"start":9320.02,"end":9322.02,"text":"照案通過好謝謝"},{"start":9322.02,"end":9324.02,"text":"那我們推進到第十二條之一"},{"start":9324.02,"end":9326.02,"text":"條文增訂"},{"start":9326.02,"end":9328.02,"text":"有委員郭育芹等"},{"start":9328.02,"end":9330.02,"text":"十八人及委員許心瑩等"},{"start":9330.02,"end":9332.02,"text":"十六人兩個提案"},{"start":9332.02,"end":9334.02,"text":"有沒有委員要做"},{"start":9334.02,"end":9336.02,"text":"來請說明郭育芹委員"},{"start":9336.02,"end":9338.02,"text":"好同樣的"},{"start":9338.02,"end":9340.02,"text":"這個偏遠地區的學校往往是"},{"start":9340.02,"end":9342.02,"text":"當地的部落或者是社區的一個"},{"start":9342.02,"end":9344.02,"text":"文化中心或者是生活當中"},{"start":9344.02,"end":9346.02,"text":"的一個樞紐啦所以每一間"},{"start":9346.02,"end":9348.02,"text":"小校的一個費力其實"},{"start":9348.02,"end":9350.02,"text":"都牽動著這個當地孩子他們"},{"start":9350.02,"end":9352.02,"text":"就學的一個權益喔"},{"start":9352.02,"end":9354.02,"text":"那還有這個社區的一個存續"},{"start":9354.02,"end":9356.02,"text":"還有文化的傳承的一個問題"},{"start":9356.02,"end":9358.02,"text":"那但是過去這個偏鄉學校"},{"start":9358.02,"end":9360.02,"text":"在缺乏溝通跟嚴謹的評估"},{"start":9360.02,"end":9362.02,"text":"之下被裁病"},{"start":9362.02,"end":9364.02,"text":"那造成的一些衝擊"},{"start":9364.02,"end":9366.02,"text":"所以在這個部分呢其實我針對"},{"start":9366.02,"end":9368.02,"text":"這個第十二條之一"},{"start":9368.02,"end":9370.02,"text":"我有一些新增這一條的一個"},{"start":9370.02,"end":9372.02,"text":"核心重點喔"},{"start":9372.02,"end":9374.02,"text":"那包含就是裁病的一個決策不能只看"},{"start":9374.02,"end":9376.02,"text":"這個學生人數的多寡"},{"start":9376.02,"end":9378.02,"text":"還有預算的一個成本也應該要將"},{"start":9378.02,"end":9380.02,"text":"這個學童就學的權益"},{"start":9380.02,"end":9382.02,"text":"文化的傳承還有"},{"start":9382.02,"end":9384.02,"text":"社區發展跟交通安全的部分"},{"start":9384.02,"end":9386.02,"text":"的這樣子的一些關鍵因素"},{"start":9386.02,"end":9390.02,"text":"也要納入就是整個所有的綜合的評估喔"},{"start":9390.02,"end":9392.02,"text":"那第二個部分就是為了要保障"},{"start":9392.02,"end":9394.02,"text":"這個在地利害關係人的"},{"start":9394.02,"end":9396.02,"text":"一個發言權所以在召開"},{"start":9396.02,"end":9398.02,"text":"就是要病校或者是"},{"start":9398.02,"end":9400.02,"text":"就是他們的這個"},{"start":9400.02,"end":9402.02,"text":"其他的一些重大的一個"},{"start":9402.02,"end":9404.02,"text":"改變的時候應該要先召開這個"},{"start":9404.02,"end":9406.02,"text":"公聽會那進行充分的"},{"start":9406.02,"end":9408.02,"text":"一個溝通還有要"},{"start":9408.02,"end":9410.02,"text":"進入這個強制依照"},{"start":9410.02,"end":9412.02,"text":"這個行政的程序法則"},{"start":9412.02,"end":9414.02,"text":"來進行這個聽證喔"},{"start":9414.02,"end":9416.02,"text":"那另外就是在預告的部分"},{"start":9416.02,"end":9418.02,"text":"裁病決定已經"},{"start":9418.02,"end":9420.02,"text":"核定之後應該要"},{"start":9420.02,"end":9422.02,"text":"至少於一個學年之前"},{"start":9422.02,"end":9424.02,"text":"來做公告"},{"start":9424.02,"end":9426.02,"text":"那這段時間當然還有一些"},{"start":9426.02,"end":9428.02,"text":"配套的措施給家長跟學生"},{"start":9428.02,"end":9430.02,"text":"他們有一還有學校有充足的"},{"start":9430.02,"end":9432.02,"text":"時間來做準備啦"},{"start":9432.02,"end":9434.02,"text":"那這個配套的部分"},{"start":9434.02,"end":9436.02,"text":"我是希望能夠提前在一個學年"},{"start":9436.02,"end":9438.02,"text":"就能夠提前來預告"},{"start":9438.02,"end":9440.02,"text":"就是在這個整個所有的"},{"start":9440.02,"end":9442.02,"text":"緩衝的期間讓這個"},{"start":9442.02,"end":9444.02,"text":"這個學生學校還有這個"},{"start":9444.02,"end":9446.02,"text":"家長還有社區能夠充分的"},{"start":9446.02,"end":9448.02,"text":"來因應喔那這個部分"},{"start":9448.02,"end":9450.02,"text":"是我這個十二條之一的"},{"start":9450.02,"end":9452.02,"text":"一個提案版本的一個重點"},{"start":9452.02,"end":9454.02,"text":"等一下請教育部回應一下"},{"start":9454.02,"end":9456.02,"text":"好針對郭一群委員"},{"start":9456.02,"end":9458.02,"text":"有十二條之一的新增條文"},{"start":9458.02,"end":9460.02,"text":"教育部的意見是"},{"start":9460.02,"end":9462.02,"text":"謝謝郭委員的"},{"start":9462.02,"end":9464.02,"text":"其實是一個提醒喔講提醒是因為"},{"start":9464.02,"end":9466.02,"text":"我們現行就有依據"},{"start":9466.02,"end":9468.02,"text":"國教法第十條二項"},{"start":9468.02,"end":9470.02,"text":"的授權就訂了做這一類"},{"start":9470.02,"end":9472.02,"text":"包含變更停辦等等"},{"start":9472.02,"end":9474.02,"text":"事項的一個辦法"},{"start":9474.02,"end":9476.02,"text":"那現在郭委員就幾件事情"},{"start":9476.02,"end":9478.02,"text":"的提醒我把歸納其實我們的"},{"start":9478.02,"end":9480.02,"text":"這個辦法是有的喔包含說"},{"start":9480.02,"end":9482.02,"text":"你做一些"},{"start":9482.02,"end":9484.02,"text":"這樣的一個事情你要有專案會議"},{"start":9484.02,"end":9486.02,"text":"你要辦公聽會你要"},{"start":9486.02,"end":9488.02,"text":"送教審會處理"},{"start":9488.02,"end":9490.02,"text":"這個在處理了之後"},{"start":9490.02,"end":9492.02,"text":"對於相關的教師"},{"start":9492.02,"end":9494.02,"text":"相關的學生怎麼去安置"},{"start":9494.02,"end":9496.02,"text":"等等都有一套"},{"start":9496.02,"end":9498.02,"text":"那送縣市"},{"start":9498.02,"end":9500.02,"text":"做剛剛成立"},{"start":9500.02,"end":9502.02,"text":"整個程序的處理之後"},{"start":9502.02,"end":9504.02,"text":"縣市做核定還要報教育部備查"},{"start":9504.02,"end":9506.02,"text":"所以它有一個完整的過程"},{"start":9506.02,"end":9508.02,"text":"那這個過程我們都會非常的"},{"start":9508.02,"end":9510.02,"text":"審慎提醒要依法辦理的同時"},{"start":9510.02,"end":9512.02,"text":"那今天郭委員所提的"},{"start":9512.02,"end":9514.02,"text":"有一些注意事項是不是用"},{"start":9514.02,"end":9516.02,"text":"因為已經有執法是不是用附帶決議"},{"start":9516.02,"end":9518.02,"text":"讓我們跟地方政府"},{"start":9518.02,"end":9520.02,"text":"有一些要做的更好的再持續"},{"start":9520.02,"end":9522.02,"text":"強化好不好"},{"start":9522.02,"end":9524.02,"text":"我沒有意見喔用附帶決議處理"},{"start":9524.02,"end":9526.02,"text":"好所以現在"},{"start":9526.02,"end":9528.02,"text":"有郭育勤委員第12條的附帶決議"},{"start":9528.02,"end":9530.02,"text":"12條之1的附帶決議"},{"start":9530.02,"end":9532.02,"text":"那剛才教育部說照案通過是不是"},{"start":9532.02,"end":9534.02,"text":"是是是"},{"start":9534.02,"end":9536.02,"text":"沒有意見嗎照案通過"},{"start":9536.02,"end":9538.02,"text":"好那所以我們第12條之1的"},{"start":9538.02,"end":9540.02,"text":"條文增訂"},{"start":9540.02,"end":9542.02,"text":"我們就不予增訂"},{"start":9542.02,"end":9544.02,"text":"那依照那個"},{"start":9544.02,"end":9546.02,"text":"郭育勤委員的附帶決議"},{"start":9546.02,"end":9548.02,"text":"來執行照案通過"},{"start":9548.02,"end":9550.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9550.02,"end":9552.02,"text":"好往前推進第13條"},{"start":9552.02,"end":9554.02,"text":"條文修正"},{"start":9554.02,"end":9556.02,"text":"有委員郭育勤等18人"},{"start":9556.02,"end":9558.02,"text":"委員葛如君等19人"},{"start":9558.02,"end":9560.02,"text":"及委員陳培宇等16人"},{"start":9560.02,"end":9562.02,"text":"3個提案有沒有委員要做說明"},{"start":9562.02,"end":9564.02,"text":"來郭育勤委員"},{"start":9564.02,"end":9566.02,"text":"好那偏遠地區學校"},{"start":9566.02,"end":9568.02,"text":"其實是當地唯一的公共"},{"start":9568.02,"end":9570.02,"text":"服務跟社區的中心其實剛剛"},{"start":9570.02,"end":9572.02,"text":"12條之1我也特別提到了"},{"start":9572.02,"end":9574.02,"text":"那兼顧了這個超越"},{"start":9574.02,"end":9576.02,"text":"一般學校的文化跟社會的"},{"start":9576.02,"end":9578.02,"text":"一個功能啦那我想如果"},{"start":9578.02,"end":9580.02,"text":"以單一學校去做中心"},{"start":9580.02,"end":9582.02,"text":"來結合包含就是當地的"},{"start":9582.02,"end":9584.02,"text":"衛生環保啦或者是社政農政"},{"start":9584.02,"end":9586.02,"text":"等等喔"},{"start":9586.02,"end":9588.02,"text":"那這樣子的一個"},{"start":9588.02,"end":9590.02,"text":"或者是原民等單位那實務"},{"start":9590.02,"end":9592.02,"text":"上是不是會造成就是"},{"start":9592.02,"end":9594.02,"text":"教師疲於奔命喔"},{"start":9594.02,"end":9596.02,"text":"那我的這一條主要"},{"start":9596.02,"end":9598.02,"text":"修正的一個"},{"start":9598.02,"end":9600.02,"text":"中心其實是避免"},{"start":9600.02,"end":9602.02,"text":"讓學校單打獨鬥啦"},{"start":9602.02,"end":9604.02,"text":"那我想這個部分是不是有那個"},{"start":9604.02,"end":9606.02,"text":"區域教育資源中心的一個行政"},{"start":9606.02,"end":9608.02,"text":"量能來統籌跟規劃"},{"start":9608.02,"end":9610.02,"text":"那讓這個資源疊加"},{"start":9610.02,"end":9612.02,"text":"那其實是發揮最大的一個效益喔"},{"start":9612.02,"end":9614.02,"text":"那另外呢就是說"},{"start":9614.02,"end":9616.02,"text":"是不是民定主動協調"},{"start":9616.02,"end":9618.02,"text":"那提升這個公司協力還有"},{"start":9618.02,"end":9620.02,"text":"系統上的一個資源來發揮真正"},{"start":9620.02,"end":9622.02,"text":"學校的一個教育跟文化的一個"},{"start":9622.02,"end":9624.02,"text":"社會的功能喔"},{"start":9624.02,"end":9626.02,"text":"那這個部分我沒有"},{"start":9626.02,"end":9628.02,"text":"特別的堅持那也聽聽看教育部的"},{"start":9628.02,"end":9630.02,"text":"這個想法"},{"start":9630.02,"end":9632.02,"text":"好請教育部表示意見"},{"start":9632.02,"end":9634.02,"text":"委員所提"},{"start":9634.02,"end":9636.02,"text":"這個是提示這個資源中心"},{"start":9636.02,"end":9638.02,"text":"工作的方法"},{"start":9638.02,"end":9640.02,"text":"以及要連結的資源"},{"start":9640.02,"end":9642.02,"text":"原來這個工作是"},{"start":9642.02,"end":9644.02,"text":"比較以地方政府"},{"start":9644.02,"end":9646.02,"text":"或是學校在處理"},{"start":9646.02,"end":9648.02,"text":"那現在提示"},{"start":9648.02,"end":9650.02,"text":"由那個資源中心"},{"start":9650.02,"end":9652.02,"text":"在工作上能夠多連結這個"},{"start":9652.02,"end":9654.02,"text":"我們尊重應該在立法上"},{"start":9654.02,"end":9656.02,"text":"我們覺得是可行的"},{"start":9656.02,"end":9658.02,"text":"那也是剛剛"},{"start":9658.02,"end":9660.02,"text":"我們所建議的讓這個"},{"start":9660.02,"end":9662.02,"text":"資源中心未來工作的時候"},{"start":9662.02,"end":9664.02,"text":"有一個法定的執掌之後"},{"start":9664.02,"end":9666.02,"text":"他去連結不管文化衛政"},{"start":9666.02,"end":9668.02,"text":"或是社政農政等等"},{"start":9668.02,"end":9670.02,"text":"他就比較有一個權責上"},{"start":9670.02,"end":9672.02,"text":"是賦予他這樣的一個機會"},{"start":9672.02,"end":9674.02,"text":"那否則他原來想要去連結"},{"start":9674.02,"end":9676.02,"text":"也該連結"},{"start":9676.02,"end":9678.02,"text":"我現在的發言是說"},{"start":9678.02,"end":9680.02,"text":"不增加中心的工作下"},{"start":9680.02,"end":9682.02,"text":"我們給他"},{"start":9682.02,"end":9684.02,"text":"他可以有這個權利"},{"start":9684.02,"end":9686.02,"text":"我的發言是"},{"start":9686.02,"end":9688.02,"text":"在他本來就是這樣做的事"},{"start":9688.02,"end":9690.02,"text":"可能人家不一定理他"},{"start":9690.02,"end":9692.02,"text":"那他有這樣的一個權利之後"},{"start":9692.02,"end":9694.02,"text":"那人家會基於"},{"start":9694.02,"end":9696.02,"text":"他是法律授權"},{"start":9696.02,"end":9698.02,"text":"他可以這樣做"},{"start":9698.02,"end":9700.02,"text":"所以不是想要增加這個中心"},{"start":9700.02,"end":9702.02,"text":"額外的工作"},{"start":9702.02,"end":9704.02,"text":"所以我剛剛的發言有兩個前提"},{"start":9704.02,"end":9706.02,"text":"第一個他工作本來就可能"},{"start":9706.02,"end":9708.02,"text":"是要這樣會比較完成"},{"start":9708.02,"end":9710.02,"text":"能夠完成"},{"start":9710.02,"end":9712.02,"text":"第二給他這個權利不是外加的"},{"start":9712.02,"end":9714.02,"text":"是他本來在做的時候"},{"start":9714.02,"end":9716.02,"text":"可能人家在溝通上不一定知道"},{"start":9716.02,"end":9718.02,"text":"他是什麼單位"},{"start":9718.02,"end":9720.02,"text":"那現在有一個法源的位置"},{"start":9720.02,"end":9722.02,"text":"是基於這樣的不增加行政上"},{"start":9722.02,"end":9724.02,"text":"讓他更好做事"},{"start":9724.02,"end":9726.02,"text":"大概是這樣"},{"start":9726.02,"end":9728.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":9728.02,"end":9730.02,"text":"因為剛才郭議員有提到說"},{"start":9730.02,"end":9732.02,"text":"就是聽完教育部的說明"},{"start":9732.02,"end":9734.02,"text":"他也可以不堅持"},{"start":9734.02,"end":9736.02,"text":"但是他有提出附帶決議"},{"start":9736.02,"end":9738.02,"text":"那是"},{"start":9738.02,"end":9740.02,"text":"那如果這樣的話"},{"start":9740.02,"end":9742.02,"text":"我們是不是就不予修正"},{"start":9742.02,"end":9744.02,"text":"就維持先行條"},{"start":9744.02,"end":9746.02,"text":"我沒有附帶決議"},{"start":9746.02,"end":9748.02,"text":"13條"},{"start":9748.02,"end":9750.02,"text":"是我的附帶決議喔"},{"start":9750.02,"end":9752.02,"text":"好的"},{"start":9754.02,"end":9758.02,"text":"那郭議員你接受教育部的說法喔"},{"start":9758.02,"end":9760.02,"text":"我尊重"},{"start":9760.02,"end":9762.02,"text":"好尊重喔"},{"start":9762.02,"end":9764.02,"text":"那我們這個部分"},{"start":9764.02,"end":9766.02,"text":"附帶決議我也念一下"},{"start":9766.02,"end":9768.02,"text":"就是希望強化"},{"start":9768.02,"end":9770.02,"text":"偏遠地區學校跟家庭教育資源的連結啦"},{"start":9770.02,"end":9772.02,"text":"然後發揮"},{"start":9772.02,"end":9774.02,"text":"這個跨機關資源的整合"},{"start":9774.02,"end":9776.02,"text":"所以我們希望說教育部可以"},{"start":9776.02,"end":9778.02,"text":"引導地方主管機關"},{"start":9778.02,"end":9780.02,"text":"然後鼓勵偏遠地區的學校"},{"start":9780.02,"end":9782.02,"text":"要加強跟各直轄"},{"start":9782.02,"end":9784.02,"text":"縣市"},{"start":9784.02,"end":9786.02,"text":"家庭教育中心的合作"},{"start":9786.02,"end":9788.02,"text":"一起推動轄區內的"},{"start":9788.02,"end":9790.02,"text":"家庭教育"},{"start":9790.02,"end":9792.02,"text":"及時的協助這一些在偏遠地區的"},{"start":9792.02,"end":9794.02,"text":"學校共同一起去支持"},{"start":9794.02,"end":9796.02,"text":"他們學生的學習與成長"},{"start":9796.02,"end":9798.02,"text":"保障學生的受教權"},{"start":9798.02,"end":9800.02,"text":"那附帶決議的部分"},{"start":9800.02,"end":9802.02,"text":"教育部有沒有意見"},{"start":9804.02,"end":9806.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":9806.02,"end":9808.02,"text":"好"},{"start":9808.02,"end":9810.02,"text":"那這邊增訂的"},{"start":9810.02,"end":9812.02,"text":"第十三條之一"},{"start":9812.02,"end":9814.02,"text":"我們就不予"},{"start":9814.02,"end":9816.02,"text":"欸"},{"start":9816.02,"end":9818.02,"text":"欸我們剛剛是第十三條"},{"start":9818.02,"end":9820.02,"text":"已經翻頁了"},{"start":9820.02,"end":9822.02,"text":"重新更正"},{"start":9822.02,"end":9824.02,"text":"關於第十三條"},{"start":9824.02,"end":9826.02,"text":"我們不予修正"},{"start":9826.02,"end":9828.02,"text":"維持現行條文處理"},{"start":9828.02,"end":9830.02,"text":"然後附帶決議通過"},{"start":9830.02,"end":9832.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":9832.02,"end":9834.02,"text":"接下來是第十三條之一"},{"start":9834.02,"end":9836.02,"text":"那條文增訂的有"},{"start":9836.02,"end":9838.02,"text":"委員葛如君等十九人"},{"start":9838.02,"end":9840.02,"text":"蓬佩玉等十六人兩個提案"},{"start":9840.02,"end":9842.02,"text":"有沒有委員要做說明"},{"start":9842.02,"end":9844.02,"text":"跟委員補充報告"},{"start":9844.02,"end":9846.02,"text":"因為這個跟剛剛郭慧琴委員那個"},{"start":9846.02,"end":9848.02,"text":"是一次"},{"start":9848.02,"end":9850.02,"text":"是不是已經有那個執法"},{"start":9850.02,"end":9852.02,"text":"然後也有附帶決議"},{"start":9852.02,"end":9854.02,"text":"是不是就併那個十二條之一"},{"start":9854.02,"end":9856.02,"text":"一起處理"},{"start":9856.02,"end":9858.02,"text":"好那我們大家有沒有意見"},{"start":9858.02,"end":9860.02,"text":"要併"},{"start":9860.02,"end":9862.02,"text":"好十三之一我也有"},{"start":9862.02,"end":9864.02,"text":"那但是因為主要是因為我們"},{"start":9864.02,"end":9866.02,"text":"其實之前很多地方的狀況"},{"start":9866.02,"end":9868.02,"text":"就是如果沒有這些"},{"start":9868.02,"end":9870.02,"text":"跟學校的討論跟社區的討論"},{"start":9870.02,"end":9872.02,"text":"其實確實確實就會"},{"start":9872.02,"end":9874.02,"text":"有那種我們認為是"},{"start":9874.02,"end":9876.02,"text":"草率併校或者是"},{"start":9876.02,"end":9878.02,"text":"草率停辦學校"},{"start":9878.02,"end":9880.02,"text":"那彰化之前"},{"start":9880.02,"end":9882.02,"text":"談前國小事情也鬧得"},{"start":9882.02,"end":9884.02,"text":"沸沸揚揚的所以我們辦公室也收到"},{"start":9884.02,"end":9886.02,"text":"很多陳情然後還幫忙"},{"start":9886.02,"end":9888.02,"text":"開了幾次協調會"},{"start":9888.02,"end":9890.02,"text":"那我知道就入法的角度來說"},{"start":9890.02,"end":9892.02,"text":"國教署可能認為有困難你們"},{"start":9892.02,"end":9894.02,"text":"可能也認為會有疊床架物"},{"start":9894.02,"end":9896.02,"text":"因為確實我們在公立國民"},{"start":9896.02,"end":9898.02,"text":"小學及國民中學變更或"},{"start":9898.02,"end":9900.02,"text":"停辦準則理念就有相關規定"},{"start":9900.02,"end":9902.02,"text":"這確實也是地方政府"},{"start":9902.02,"end":9904.02,"text":"的職責但是我認為"},{"start":9904.02,"end":9906.02,"text":"在小子化未來這幾年應該"},{"start":9906.02,"end":9908.02,"text":"更多偏鄉會遇到這個問題"},{"start":9908.02,"end":9910.02,"text":"所以我們什麼制度性的方法"},{"start":9910.02,"end":9912.02,"text":"結構性的方法來處理這個"},{"start":9912.02,"end":9914.02,"text":"事情然後也讓大家"},{"start":9914.02,"end":9916.02,"text":"看見其實中央主管教育機關"},{"start":9916.02,"end":9918.02,"text":"在這件事情上是有態度的是"},{"start":9918.02,"end":9920.02,"text":"願意保障學生就學權利"},{"start":9920.02,"end":9922.02,"text":"但是又不影響地方財政"},{"start":9922.02,"end":9924.02,"text":"情況下然後又可以"},{"start":9924.02,"end":9926.02,"text":"防止地方政府亂搞的情況"},{"start":9926.02,"end":9928.02,"text":"下到底我們可以怎麼做以上"},{"start":9928.02,"end":9930.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":9930.02,"end":9932.02,"text":"書長要回應謝謝陳委員"},{"start":9932.02,"end":9934.02,"text":"更清楚的說明訴求"},{"start":9934.02,"end":9936.02,"text":"這樣的一個心聲"},{"start":9936.02,"end":9938.02,"text":"也是代替學校在發"},{"start":9938.02,"end":9940.02,"text":"發出這個心聲之後其實我們跟"},{"start":9940.02,"end":9942.02,"text":"幾位委員事前有溝通"},{"start":9942.02,"end":9944.02,"text":"在相關的程序上會"},{"start":9944.02,"end":9946.02,"text":"前一學年提前預告或是在"},{"start":9946.02,"end":9948.02,"text":"相關的引導作為上我們會"},{"start":9948.02,"end":9950.02,"text":"邀請地方政府就今天委員"},{"start":9950.02,"end":9952.02,"text":"關心的事項做一個"},{"start":9952.02,"end":9954.02,"text":"在處置類似事情時"},{"start":9954.02,"end":9956.02,"text":"除了年線往前第二個"},{"start":9956.02,"end":9958.02,"text":"可能處理的事項比較精細"},{"start":9958.02,"end":9960.02,"text":"的程度還有要注意的"},{"start":9960.02,"end":9962.02,"text":"剛剛委員提醒的事項在"},{"start":9962.02,"end":9964.02,"text":"下一次跟地方政府在"},{"start":9964.02,"end":9966.02,"text":"洽談包含今天講的"},{"start":9966.02,"end":9968.02,"text":"九月份有一些議題要談的時候"},{"start":9968.02,"end":9970.02,"text":"今天修偏鄉條例的"},{"start":9970.02,"end":9972.02,"text":"有一些關心的附帶決議"},{"start":9972.02,"end":9974.02,"text":"也會一併跟地方政府帶到"},{"start":9974.02,"end":9976.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":9976.02,"end":9978.02,"text":"那我們在這邊宣告就是增訂的"},{"start":9978.02,"end":9980.02,"text":"第十三條之一"},{"start":9980.02,"end":9982.02,"text":"我們就不予增訂"},{"start":9982.02,"end":9986.02,"text":"這裡有國軍委員所提出的"},{"start":9986.02,"end":9988.02,"text":"十三條之一附帶決議"},{"start":9988.02,"end":9992.02,"text":"不曉得教育部的意見如何"},{"start":9992.02,"end":9996.02,"text":"因為這邊有說正式生效前"},{"start":9996.02,"end":9998.02,"text":"提前一年預告"},{"start":9998.02,"end":10000.02,"text":"可是你沒有十三條之一"},{"start":10000.02,"end":10004.02,"text":"因為我們剛"},{"start":10004.02,"end":10006.02,"text":"對好"},{"start":10006.02,"end":10008.02,"text":"他有十三條之一喔"},{"start":10008.02,"end":10010.02,"text":"可是他沒有十三條"},{"start":10010.02,"end":10012.02,"text":"十三條之一的"},{"start":10012.02,"end":10014.02,"text":"我都只三十一"},{"start":10014.02,"end":10016.02,"text":"他掛在那三十一"},{"start":10020.02,"end":10022.02,"text":"所以剛剛你提到說"},{"start":10022.02,"end":10024.02,"text":"好是"},{"start":10024.02,"end":10026.02,"text":"郭育勤"},{"start":10026.02,"end":10028.02,"text":"都會在我們同一個附帶決議"},{"start":10028.02,"end":10030.02,"text":"處理的時間"},{"start":10030.02,"end":10032.02,"text":"會在九月的那個"},{"start":10032.02,"end":10034.02,"text":"會議中"},{"start":10034.02,"end":10036.02,"text":"那要招案通過嗎"},{"start":10036.02,"end":10038.02,"text":"好"},{"start":10038.02,"end":10040.02,"text":"OK"},{"start":10040.02,"end":10042.02,"text":"委員葛如君十三條之一"},{"start":10042.02,"end":10044.02,"text":"附帶決議招案通過"},{"start":10044.02,"end":10046.02,"text":"好接下來"},{"start":10046.02,"end":10048.02,"text":"我們要處理的是第十四條"},{"start":10048.02,"end":10050.02,"text":"條文修正有"},{"start":10050.02,"end":10052.02,"text":"委員郭育勤等十八人"},{"start":10052.02,"end":10054.02,"text":"等六個提案"},{"start":10054.02,"end":10056.02,"text":"有沒有委員要發言"},{"start":10056.02,"end":10058.02,"text":"來江雅玲委員陳美宜委員"},{"start":10058.02,"end":10060.02,"text":"郭育勤委員"},{"start":10060.02,"end":10062.02,"text":"好那這一條呢最主要就是說"},{"start":10062.02,"end":10066.02,"text":"因為其實前面也有討論了很多區域教育資源中心啦"},{"start":10066.02,"end":10068.02,"text":"那既然就是說我看了"},{"start":10068.02,"end":10070.02,"text":"剛剛其實署長也有講就是我們在有些地區"},{"start":10070.02,"end":10072.02,"text":"都已經有一些聯合的一個"},{"start":10072.02,"end":10074.02,"text":"行政的做法"},{"start":10074.02,"end":10076.02,"text":"那我自己也看了一下十八個縣市就已經有三十九個"},{"start":10076.02,"end":10078.02,"text":"偏遠地區的學校區域資源中心"},{"start":10078.02,"end":10080.02,"text":"所以我想說我們這件事情"},{"start":10080.02,"end":10084.02,"text":"既然都已經有做我們是不是可以在這邊把行政業務的指定學校"},{"start":10084.02,"end":10086.02,"text":"或教育資源中心"},{"start":10086.02,"end":10088.02,"text":"來把它放進去"},{"start":10088.02,"end":10090.02,"text":"那特別還有就是說"},{"start":10090.02,"end":10092.02,"text":"因為如果說我們雖然"},{"start":10092.02,"end":10094.02,"text":"做了這個行政中心可是我們沒有固定的"},{"start":10094.02,"end":10096.02,"text":"專任行政人員的時候"},{"start":10096.02,"end":10098.02,"text":"最後的工作可能還是會加重了"},{"start":10098.02,"end":10100.02,"text":"這個原本老師的工作壓力"},{"start":10100.02,"end":10102.02,"text":"所以我這邊的條文"},{"start":10102.02,"end":10104.02,"text":"就是再增加了第二項"},{"start":10104.02,"end":10106.02,"text":"經指定集中辦理行政業務"},{"start":10106.02,"end":10108.02,"text":"單位應配置至少一名專任行政人員"},{"start":10108.02,"end":10110.02,"text":"那所需的經費由中央主管機關"},{"start":10110.02,"end":10112.02,"text":"簡而不作這是我的版本這樣子"},{"start":10112.02,"end":10114.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10114.02,"end":10116.02,"text":"好陳明玉委員"},{"start":10116.02,"end":10118.02,"text":"好因為一樣是討論到區域教育資源中心"},{"start":10118.02,"end":10120.02,"text":"可是因為前面已經保留了"},{"start":10120.02,"end":10122.02,"text":"我想這一條就是後續保留"},{"start":10122.02,"end":10124.02,"text":"等到我們如何去聚焦"},{"start":10124.02,"end":10126.02,"text":"關於區域教育資源中心"},{"start":10126.02,"end":10128.02,"text":"真的可以如何落實協助偏鄉"},{"start":10128.02,"end":10130.02,"text":"協助學校我們再回來看"},{"start":10130.02,"end":10132.02,"text":"如何去設置這個區域教育資源中心"},{"start":10132.02,"end":10134.02,"text":"當然我知道"},{"start":10134.02,"end":10136.02,"text":"目前好像在行政組織上"},{"start":10136.02,"end":10138.02,"text":"我們好像各縣市政府"},{"start":10138.02,"end":10140.02,"text":"還有沒有這個餘裕設立這個行政教育資源中心"},{"start":10140.02,"end":10142.02,"text":"區域教育資源中心"},{"start":10142.02,"end":10144.02,"text":"我還是想要拜託國教署把這個問題帶回去"},{"start":10144.02,"end":10146.02,"text":"因為如果接下來九月"},{"start":10146.02,"end":10148.02,"text":"還是會有陸陸續續跟地方教育局處的開會"},{"start":10148.02,"end":10150.02,"text":"我還是希望"},{"start":10150.02,"end":10152.02,"text":"聽一下"},{"start":10152.02,"end":10154.02,"text":"尤其是偏鄉學校居多的這些偏鄉縣市"},{"start":10154.02,"end":10156.02,"text":"他們更應該要去面臨這個問題"},{"start":10156.02,"end":10158.02,"text":"因為我真的很擔心"},{"start":10158.02,"end":10160.02,"text":"就是在新版才化法修法之後"},{"start":10160.02,"end":10162.02,"text":"如果很多事情"},{"start":10162.02,"end":10164.02,"text":"很多資源該是由地方政府來承擔"},{"start":10164.02,"end":10166.02,"text":"不能因為地方政府不做通"},{"start":10166.02,"end":10168.02,"text":"丟包到中央"},{"start":10168.02,"end":10170.02,"text":"那中央當然也要有法規去協助地方"},{"start":10170.02,"end":10172.02,"text":"完成相關的配套"},{"start":10172.02,"end":10174.02,"text":"所以拜託國教署署長把這個問題帶回去"},{"start":10174.02,"end":10176.02,"text":"到底區域教育資源中心"},{"start":10176.02,"end":10178.02,"text":"知於我們這個偏鄉條例的"},{"start":10178.02,"end":10180.02,"text":"必要性跟重要性"},{"start":10180.02,"end":10182.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10182.02,"end":10184.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":10184.02,"end":10186.02,"text":"再來 請委員"},{"start":10186.02,"end":10188.02,"text":"第十四條其實剛剛有特別提到"},{"start":10188.02,"end":10190.02,"text":"這個行政業務的指定"},{"start":10190.02,"end":10192.02,"text":"就是在必要時"},{"start":10192.02,"end":10194.02,"text":"行政業務的指定"},{"start":10194.02,"end":10196.02,"text":"這個區域教育資源中心"},{"start":10196.02,"end":10198.02,"text":"來統整跟辦理"},{"start":10198.02,"end":10200.02,"text":"但是剛剛其實我們前面其實有一些保留"},{"start":10200.02,"end":10202.02,"text":"那我想這個部分"},{"start":10202.02,"end":10204.02,"text":"當然也這個 echo一下"},{"start":10204.02,"end":10206.02,"text":"這個陳培育委員"},{"start":10206.02,"end":10208.02,"text":"把這樣子的問題帶回去"},{"start":10208.02,"end":10210.02,"text":"我們也擔心說會不會"},{"start":10210.02,"end":10212.02,"text":"造成這個地方的主管機關"},{"start":10212.02,"end":10214.02,"text":"然後把一些"},{"start":10214.02,"end":10216.02,"text":"所謂的規劃都放到"},{"start":10216.02,"end":10218.02,"text":"那個區域教育"},{"start":10218.02,"end":10220.02,"text":"資源中心去"},{"start":10220.02,"end":10222.02,"text":"也沒辦法做整合"},{"start":10222.02,"end":10224.02,"text":"也沒辦法有一個專業分工跟行政上的"},{"start":10224.02,"end":10226.02,"text":"一個量能的協調"},{"start":10226.02,"end":10228.02,"text":"那這個部分就是"},{"start":10228.02,"end":10230.02,"text":"就跟剛剛"},{"start":10230.02,"end":10232.02,"text":"大家的意見差不多"},{"start":10232.02,"end":10234.02,"text":"我想應該就是保留"},{"start":10234.02,"end":10236.02,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":10236.02,"end":10238.02,"text":"好 謝謝 那大家的意見是保留嗎"},{"start":10238.02,"end":10240.02,"text":"好 那我們就"},{"start":10240.02,"end":10242.02,"text":"暫時保留"},{"start":10242.02,"end":10244.02,"text":"第十四條暫時保留"},{"start":10244.02,"end":10246.02,"text":"現在我們來處理"},{"start":10246.02,"end":10248.02,"text":"第十五條 條文修正的有"},{"start":10248.02,"end":10250.02,"text":"委員郭奕勤等十八人等"},{"start":10250.02,"end":10252.02,"text":"七個提案"},{"start":10252.02,"end":10254.02,"text":"好 有沒有委員"},{"start":10254.02,"end":10256.02,"text":"以及委員伍立華等"},{"start":10256.02,"end":10258.02,"text":"所提的修正動議"},{"start":10258.02,"end":10260.02,"text":"好"},{"start":10260.02,"end":10262.02,"text":"來 好 發言的張雅玲委員"},{"start":10262.02,"end":10264.02,"text":"羅廷瑋委員 郭奕勤委員"},{"start":10264.02,"end":10266.02,"text":"好 那我想"},{"start":10266.02,"end":10268.02,"text":"其實大家今天講了很多的重點"},{"start":10268.02,"end":10270.02,"text":"就是說不要讓偏鄉學校"},{"start":10270.02,"end":10272.02,"text":"和老師單打獨鬥"},{"start":10272.02,"end":10274.02,"text":"因為除了交通不便"},{"start":10274.02,"end":10276.02,"text":"也常常面臨到很多私資流動"},{"start":10276.02,"end":10278.02,"text":"的問題"},{"start":10278.02,"end":10280.02,"text":"所以其實過去我也跟一些民間團體"},{"start":10280.02,"end":10282.02,"text":"就是有來開記者會"},{"start":10282.02,"end":10284.02,"text":"也有跟大家來討論就是說希望由主管"},{"start":10284.02,"end":10286.02,"text":"建立機關來建立完整的"},{"start":10286.02,"end":10288.02,"text":"學校與教師資源"},{"start":10288.02,"end":10290.02,"text":"系統 並設置"},{"start":10290.02,"end":10292.02,"text":"入校陪伴及資源媒合"},{"start":10292.02,"end":10294.02,"text":"平台 因為常常"},{"start":10294.02,"end":10296.02,"text":"是老師願意去了偏鄉"},{"start":10296.02,"end":10298.02,"text":"可是他根本就沒有人一起陪伴"},{"start":10298.02,"end":10300.02,"text":"他去做一些交案的設計"},{"start":10300.02,"end":10302.02,"text":"所以他變成是個案的壓力"},{"start":10302.02,"end":10304.02,"text":"各自承擔的非常大的壓力"},{"start":10304.02,"end":10306.02,"text":"所以我也是希望說透過這一條"},{"start":10306.02,"end":10308.02,"text":"把我們的支持系統建置起來"},{"start":10308.02,"end":10310.02,"text":"讓偏鄉可以獲得更長期"},{"start":10310.02,"end":10312.02,"text":"累積"},{"start":10312.02,"end":10314.02,"text":"而且可以持續追蹤的服務"},{"start":10314.02,"end":10316.02,"text":"那第15條之一我是不是"},{"start":10316.02,"end":10318.02,"text":"就也一起講喔"},{"start":10318.02,"end":10320.02,"text":"因為民間的團體常常會跑在政府的前面"},{"start":10320.02,"end":10322.02,"text":"去協助各地的偏遠學校"},{"start":10322.02,"end":10324.02,"text":"這也是現在的常態"},{"start":10324.02,"end":10326.02,"text":"所以我是希望說是不是可以講補助我們的民間團體"},{"start":10326.02,"end":10328.02,"text":"可以去推動一些創新方案"},{"start":10328.02,"end":10330.02,"text":"來支持及待"},{"start":10330.02,"end":10332.02,"text":"這個協助的一個偏遠學校"},{"start":10332.02,"end":10334.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10336.02,"end":10338.02,"text":"好 羅廷瑋委員嗎"},{"start":10338.02,"end":10340.02,"text":"郭奕勤委員"},{"start":10340.02,"end":10342.02,"text":"好"},{"start":10344.02,"end":10348.02,"text":"好 我們現在這個是偏鄉教育的核心困境之一"},{"start":10348.02,"end":10350.02,"text":"我想第15條 第15條之一"},{"start":10350.02,"end":10352.02,"text":"還有第17條"},{"start":10352.02,"end":10354.02,"text":"我都是連動性的 我一併說明"},{"start":10354.02,"end":10358.02,"text":"那我想不管是我們在第8條所探討的偏鄉教育條例的論述"},{"start":10358.02,"end":10360.02,"text":"到現在第15條"},{"start":10360.02,"end":10364.02,"text":"我認為在師資不穩定跟高流動率以及偏遠地區"},{"start":10364.02,"end":10366.02,"text":"現在整個學校"},{"start":10366.02,"end":10368.02,"text":"往往就是因為地理位置"},{"start":10368.02,"end":10370.02,"text":"交通不變"},{"start":10370.02,"end":10372.02,"text":"現在所遇到的生活機能"},{"start":10372.02,"end":10374.02,"text":"教學行政負荷等"},{"start":10374.02,"end":10378.02,"text":"面臨就是教師在招募的時候就是不容易"},{"start":10378.02,"end":10380.02,"text":"留任也不容易"},{"start":10380.02,"end":10382.02,"text":"所以雙重的挑戰一旦師資頻繁的更替"},{"start":10382.02,"end":10384.02,"text":"我想影響課程的延續"},{"start":10384.02,"end":10386.02,"text":"影響班級經營"},{"start":10386.02,"end":10388.02,"text":"孩子的互動"},{"start":10388.02,"end":10390.02,"text":"還有整個校務的推動"},{"start":10390.02,"end":10394.02,"text":"更直接衝擊就是我剛剛所提到的學生穩定"},{"start":10394.02,"end":10396.02,"text":"以及教權的學習品質"},{"start":10396.02,"end":10398.02,"text":"所以我在第15條提案"},{"start":10398.02,"end":10402.02,"text":"明定教育部要建立一套偏遠地區學校"},{"start":10402.02,"end":10404.02,"text":"教師培立的一個支持系統"},{"start":10404.02,"end":10406.02,"text":"不只是講補助"},{"start":10406.02,"end":10408.02,"text":"更要有一個支持的系統"},{"start":10408.02,"end":10410.02,"text":"統整整個相關的資源"},{"start":10410.02,"end":10414.02,"text":"建置相關的支持資源庫"},{"start":10414.02,"end":10416.02,"text":"以及服務媒合的平台"},{"start":10416.02,"end":10418.02,"text":"並將整個代理代課的老師"},{"start":10418.02,"end":10422.02,"text":"未有教師證的教師納入支持的對象"},{"start":10422.02,"end":10424.02,"text":"一併支持"},{"start":10424.02,"end":10426.02,"text":"希望能夠讓真正有需要學校"},{"start":10426.02,"end":10430.02,"text":"跟教師能夠找得到資源"},{"start":10430.02,"end":10432.02,"text":"媒合得到專業"},{"start":10432.02,"end":10434.02,"text":"能夠獲得持續的陪伴"},{"start":10434.02,"end":10436.02,"text":"那剛剛有提到第15條"},{"start":10436.02,"end":10438.02,"text":"15條之一17條"},{"start":10438.02,"end":10440.02,"text":"尤其是17條是連動15條"},{"start":10440.02,"end":10444.02,"text":"主要都是談學校運用整個培立支持機制的誘因"},{"start":10444.02,"end":10446.02,"text":"所以希望教育部能夠針對"},{"start":10446.02,"end":10448.02,"text":"學校運用偏遠地區學校"},{"start":10448.02,"end":10450.02,"text":"教師培立支持系統"},{"start":10450.02,"end":10452.02,"text":"可以有更多的支持"},{"start":10452.02,"end":10456.02,"text":"可以有更多的相關補助獎勵機制"},{"start":10456.02,"end":10460.02,"text":"避免只是原則性的鼓勵"},{"start":10460.02,"end":10462.02,"text":"才可以加大誘因"},{"start":10462.02,"end":10464.02,"text":"以上是15條17條的連動"},{"start":10464.02,"end":10466.02,"text":"也希望教育部能夠支持"},{"start":10466.02,"end":10468.02,"text":"一併來修改這個法條例"},{"start":10468.02,"end":10470.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10470.02,"end":10472.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":10472.02,"end":10474.02,"text":"那如果15跟17是連動"},{"start":10474.02,"end":10476.02,"text":"大家也可以一併講"},{"start":10476.02,"end":10478.02,"text":"好來 各位請委員"},{"start":10478.02,"end":10480.02,"text":"那這一條我是"},{"start":10480.02,"end":10484.02,"text":"特別賦予了這個區域教育資源中心"},{"start":10484.02,"end":10486.02,"text":"在教師的專業的發展"},{"start":10486.02,"end":10488.02,"text":"跟具體的一些指責"},{"start":10488.02,"end":10490.02,"text":"還有透過這個區域中心"},{"start":10490.02,"end":10492.02,"text":"作為這個在地培立的一個樞紐"},{"start":10492.02,"end":10494.02,"text":"那集中整合這個區域內"},{"start":10494.02,"end":10496.02,"text":"多所這個偏鄉學校他們"},{"start":10496.02,"end":10498.02,"text":"實際的一個教學的一個需求"},{"start":10498.02,"end":10500.02,"text":"然後引進這個優秀的"},{"start":10500.02,"end":10502.02,"text":"師資跟課程的一個資源"},{"start":10502.02,"end":10504.02,"text":"但是我想這個每個地方"},{"start":10504.02,"end":10506.02,"text":"政府的區域教育"},{"start":10506.02,"end":10508.02,"text":"區域資源教育中心"},{"start":10508.02,"end":10510.02,"text":"他們的設置的一個方式"},{"start":10510.02,"end":10512.02,"text":"其實不太一樣喔"},{"start":10512.02,"end":10514.02,"text":"所以我們也擔心說"},{"start":10514.02,"end":10516.02,"text":"會不會有所謂的這個"},{"start":10516.02,"end":10518.02,"text":"資源過度集中或者是可能會分散"},{"start":10518.02,"end":10520.02,"text":"那如果是有因地質疑"},{"start":10520.02,"end":10522.02,"text":"這樣子的一個需求"},{"start":10522.02,"end":10524.02,"text":"所以這個部分我們等一下"},{"start":10524.02,"end":10526.02,"text":"是不是用我有特別寫一個"},{"start":10526.02,"end":10528.02,"text":"附帶決議喔"},{"start":10528.02,"end":10530.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":10530.02,"end":10532.02,"text":"那我個人也有這個版本"},{"start":10532.02,"end":10534.02,"text":"第15條版本"},{"start":10534.02,"end":10536.02,"text":"但是我後來"},{"start":10536.02,"end":10538.02,"text":"又把它做收斂"},{"start":10538.02,"end":10540.02,"text":"所以今天又提出修正動議"},{"start":10540.02,"end":10542.02,"text":"那主要的原因是因為"},{"start":10542.02,"end":10544.02,"text":"在第15條原來是提到"},{"start":10544.02,"end":10546.02,"text":"主管機關"},{"start":10546.02,"end":10548.02,"text":"那因為中央跟地方"},{"start":10548.02,"end":10550.02,"text":"就是怕到時候"},{"start":10550.02,"end":10552.02,"text":"才化法之後"},{"start":10552.02,"end":10554.02,"text":"權責不明確"},{"start":10554.02,"end":10556.02,"text":"所以我們就特別去把"},{"start":10556.02,"end":10558.02,"text":"中央主管機關"},{"start":10558.02,"end":10560.02,"text":"還有地方主管機關"},{"start":10560.02,"end":10562.02,"text":"包括盤點"},{"start":10562.02,"end":10564.02,"text":"統籌規劃這一些所謂的"},{"start":10564.02,"end":10566.02,"text":"支持機制"},{"start":10566.02,"end":10568.02,"text":"還有經費的編列"},{"start":10568.02,"end":10570.02,"text":"所以我做了一個新的"},{"start":10570.02,"end":10572.02,"text":"修正動議版本"},{"start":10572.02,"end":10574.02,"text":"那就看一下教育部的意見"},{"start":10574.02,"end":10576.02,"text":"好請"},{"start":10578.02,"end":10580.02,"text":"好謝謝委員"},{"start":10580.02,"end":10582.02,"text":"剛才五個人是委員的"},{"start":10582.02,"end":10584.02,"text":"發言"},{"start":10584.02,"end":10586.02,"text":"讓我們感覺到這個工作"},{"start":10586.02,"end":10588.02,"text":"除了第七第八改革之外"},{"start":10588.02,"end":10590.02,"text":"這一條也非常的重要"},{"start":10590.02,"end":10592.02,"text":"那這樣的一個支持機制"},{"start":10592.02,"end":10594.02,"text":"事實上我們現在已經建置了"},{"start":10594.02,"end":10596.02,"text":"但是那個相關的人才庫的"},{"start":10596.02,"end":10598.02,"text":"實質內涵我們一直在補充"},{"start":10598.02,"end":10600.02,"text":"來達到委員的"},{"start":10600.02,"end":10602.02,"text":"要求的方向"},{"start":10602.02,"end":10604.02,"text":"所以要努力來做我們應該可以一起來"},{"start":10604.02,"end":10606.02,"text":"工作完成"},{"start":10606.02,"end":10608.02,"text":"完成度已經達到60%"},{"start":10608.02,"end":10610.02,"text":"加上委員這一些以及我們的經費"},{"start":10610.02,"end":10612.02,"text":"我們希望可以盡快達成"},{"start":10612.02,"end":10614.02,"text":"所以目前委員所提的修正動議"},{"start":10614.02,"end":10616.02,"text":"我們覺得應該可以一起來努力"},{"start":10616.02,"end":10618.02,"text":"是不是就照這個方向"},{"start":10618.02,"end":10620.02,"text":"好 以上補充"},{"start":10620.02,"end":10622.02,"text":"那如果大家同意的話"},{"start":10622.02,"end":10624.02,"text":"我們是不是就來看一下"},{"start":10624.02,"end":10626.02,"text":"修正動議的文字版本"},{"start":10626.02,"end":10628.02,"text":"大家看看有沒有意見"},{"start":10628.02,"end":10630.02,"text":"那沒關係我來帶著念好了"},{"start":10630.02,"end":10632.02,"text":"中央主管機關"},{"start":10632.02,"end":10634.02,"text":"應統籌"},{"start":10634.02,"end":10636.02,"text":"規劃偏遠"},{"start":10636.02,"end":10638.02,"text":"地區"},{"start":10638.02,"end":10640.02,"text":"學校教師"},{"start":10640.02,"end":10642.02,"text":"專業"},{"start":10642.02,"end":10644.02,"text":"發展支持機制"},{"start":10644.02,"end":10646.02,"text":"協調地方主管機關"},{"start":10646.02,"end":10648.02,"text":"學校師資培育"},{"start":10648.02,"end":10650.02,"text":"支大學非營利組織"},{"start":10650.02,"end":10652.02,"text":"民間團體及專業機構"},{"start":10652.02,"end":10654.02,"text":"等公司部門資源"},{"start":10654.02,"end":10656.02,"text":"提供偏遠地區學校各類"},{"start":10656.02,"end":10658.02,"text":"教職員多元方式之"},{"start":10658.02,"end":10660.02,"text":"專業發展服務"},{"start":10660.02,"end":10662.02,"text":"地方"},{"start":10662.02,"end":10664.02,"text":"主管機關應盤點"},{"start":10664.02,"end":10666.02,"text":"所轄偏遠地區學校之"},{"start":10666.02,"end":10668.02,"text":"需求加強規劃辦理"},{"start":10668.02,"end":10670.02,"text":"並就近提供教職員"},{"start":10670.02,"end":10672.02,"text":"所需之專業發展"},{"start":10674.02,"end":10676.02,"text":"中央主管機關應編列預算"},{"start":10676.02,"end":10678.02,"text":"辦理第一項支持機制之建制及運作"},{"start":10678.02,"end":10680.02,"text":"並補助地方主管機關及學校"},{"start":10680.02,"end":10682.02,"text":"辦理前項"},{"start":10682.02,"end":10684.02,"text":"教職員專業發展"},{"start":10684.02,"end":10686.02,"text":"所需之經費"},{"start":10686.02,"end":10688.02,"text":"各該主管機關"},{"start":10688.02,"end":10690.02,"text":"得規劃一般地區學校之"},{"start":10690.02,"end":10692.02,"text":"優秀教師"},{"start":10692.02,"end":10694.02,"text":"至偏遠地區學校進行"},{"start":10694.02,"end":10696.02,"text":"教學訪問"},{"start":10696.02,"end":10698.02,"text":"亦得規劃偏遠地區學校"},{"start":10698.02,"end":10700.02,"text":"教師至一般地區學校"},{"start":10700.02,"end":10702.02,"text":"進行專業交流"},{"start":10702.02,"end":10704.02,"text":"前開實施計劃"},{"start":10704.02,"end":10706.02,"text":"由中央主管機關"},{"start":10706.02,"end":10708.02,"text":"定制"},{"start":10710.02,"end":10712.02,"text":"那"},{"start":10712.02,"end":10714.02,"text":"來,雅玲委員"},{"start":10714.02,"end":10716.02,"text":"我是支持的"},{"start":10716.02,"end":10718.02,"text":"但是我有一個附帶決議"},{"start":10718.02,"end":10720.02,"text":"我是不是這邊也可以說明一下"},{"start":10720.02,"end":10722.02,"text":"第15條的部分就是說"},{"start":10722.02,"end":10724.02,"text":"第15條的部分就是說"},{"start":10724.02,"end":10726.02,"text":"我們的老師"},{"start":10726.02,"end":10728.02,"text":"包含這個正式教師跟代理教師"},{"start":10728.02,"end":10730.02,"text":"但是我這邊再把這個"},{"start":10730.02,"end":10732.02,"text":"教師裡面再寫得更清楚"},{"start":10732.02,"end":10734.02,"text":"例如還有及位居教師資格之教學人員或一般校務人員"},{"start":10734.02,"end":10736.02,"text":"例如還有及位居教師資格之教學人員或一般校務人員"},{"start":10736.02,"end":10738.02,"text":"因為校務行政的人員其實也是蠻需要支持的"},{"start":10738.02,"end":10740.02,"text":"因為校務行政的人員其實也是蠻需要支持的"},{"start":10740.02,"end":10742.02,"text":"所以這邊我就是希望再強調這個部分"},{"start":10742.02,"end":10744.02,"text":"那第二個部分就是說"},{"start":10744.02,"end":10746.02,"text":"因為原本我的條文裡面有講到經費"},{"start":10746.02,"end":10748.02,"text":"那所以我就在附帶決議裡面"},{"start":10748.02,"end":10750.02,"text":"再強調一次"},{"start":10750.02,"end":10752.02,"text":"就是要盤點各地的實際需求"},{"start":10752.02,"end":10754.02,"text":"編列必要的經費及配置支持人力"},{"start":10754.02,"end":10756.02,"text":"那並且與條例修正後的"},{"start":10756.02,"end":10758.02,"text":"施行後一年"},{"start":10758.02,"end":10760.02,"text":"提出偏遠地區學校教師專業發展"},{"start":10760.02,"end":10762.02,"text":"支持機制並定期檢討"},{"start":10762.02,"end":10764.02,"text":"服務程座及改善情形"},{"start":10764.02,"end":10766.02,"text":"好"},{"start":10766.02,"end":10768.02,"text":"那這個附帶決議的部分"},{"start":10768.02,"end":10770.02,"text":"有郭育晴還有張雅玲"},{"start":10770.02,"end":10772.02,"text":"吳立華"},{"start":10772.02,"end":10774.02,"text":"的附帶決議版本"},{"start":10774.02,"end":10776.02,"text":"來,郭育晴委員"},{"start":10776.02,"end":10778.02,"text":"我的附帶決議的部分是"},{"start":10778.02,"end":10780.02,"text":"就是在規劃這個相關的"},{"start":10780.02,"end":10782.02,"text":"研習的部分"},{"start":10782.02,"end":10784.02,"text":"希望這個教育部能夠引導地方主管"},{"start":10784.02,"end":10786.02,"text":"機關強化在地的一個專業支持"},{"start":10786.02,"end":10788.02,"text":"同時是以線上"},{"start":10788.02,"end":10790.02,"text":"研習為主,那如果有"},{"start":10790.02,"end":10792.02,"text":"實體辦理需要的部分"},{"start":10792.02,"end":10794.02,"text":"那採這個分區"},{"start":10794.02,"end":10796.02,"text":"就是優先採用這個分區來辦理"},{"start":10796.02,"end":10798.02,"text":"就是能夠讓他們就近"},{"start":10798.02,"end":10800.02,"text":"能夠參加,同時也減輕"},{"start":10800.02,"end":10802.02,"text":"這個他們周車勞頓的往返的一個"},{"start":10802.02,"end":10804.02,"text":"負擔"},{"start":10804.02,"end":10806.02,"text":"好,謝謝,那教育部的意見是"},{"start":10806.02,"end":10808.02,"text":"針對附帶決議的部分"},{"start":10810.02,"end":10812.02,"text":"好,謝謝兩位委員所提的這個方向"},{"start":10812.02,"end":10814.02,"text":"以及有文字"},{"start":10814.02,"end":10816.02,"text":"讓我們可以努力的更精確"},{"start":10816.02,"end":10818.02,"text":"我們來備合辦理"},{"start":10818.02,"end":10820.02,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":10820.02,"end":10822.02,"text":"那這樣的話就照案通過"},{"start":10822.02,"end":10824.02,"text":"我來正式宣告"},{"start":10824.02,"end":10826.02,"text":"第15條條文修正"},{"start":10826.02,"end":10828.02,"text":"照委員"},{"start":10828.02,"end":10830.02,"text":"吳立華等人所提,修正動議通過"},{"start":10830.02,"end":10832.02,"text":"另外"},{"start":10832.02,"end":10834.02,"text":"第15條附帶決議的"},{"start":10834.02,"end":10836.02,"text":"兩案"},{"start":10836.02,"end":10838.02,"text":"照案通過,謝謝"},{"start":10838.02,"end":10840.02,"text":"好,我們進入到第15條之一"},{"start":10842.02,"end":10844.02,"text":"這個增訂條文有委員"},{"start":10844.02,"end":10846.02,"text":"張雅玲等18人一個提案"},{"start":10846.02,"end":10848.02,"text":"那個雅玲委員"},{"start":10848.02,"end":10850.02,"text":"有沒有發言,來,請"},{"start":10850.02,"end":10852.02,"text":"因為我想,因為這個部分的話"},{"start":10852.02,"end":10854.02,"text":"基本上已經整併在原本的15條"},{"start":10854.02,"end":10856.02,"text":"的這個修正動議,所以我這邊就"},{"start":10856.02,"end":10858.02,"text":"不用了,謝謝"},{"start":10858.02,"end":10860.02,"text":"好,那"},{"start":10860.02,"end":10862.02,"text":"增訂的第15條之一,我們不予增訂"},{"start":10862.02,"end":10864.02,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":10864.02,"end":10866.02,"text":"進入到第16條"},{"start":10866.02,"end":10868.02,"text":"第16條條文修正有委員"},{"start":10868.02,"end":10870.02,"text":"魯明哲等24人等4個提案"},{"start":10870.02,"end":10872.02,"text":"好,有沒有委員"},{"start":10872.02,"end":10874.02,"text":"要發言"},{"start":10874.02,"end":10876.02,"text":"我看所有提案委員"},{"start":10876.02,"end":10878.02,"text":"都不在場"},{"start":10878.02,"end":10880.02,"text":"有,有,有,郭怡芹委員來,請"},{"start":10880.02,"end":10882.02,"text":"好,這一條因為那個偏鄉學生"},{"start":10882.02,"end":10884.02,"text":"的學習需求比較多元"},{"start":10884.02,"end":10886.02,"text":"那我想許多的孩子"},{"start":10886.02,"end":10888.02,"text":"他們除了這個國音術"},{"start":10888.02,"end":10890.02,"text":"一些基礎的一個學科需要去"},{"start":10890.02,"end":10892.02,"text":"那當然在本土的文化,藝術"},{"start":10892.02,"end":10894.02,"text":"體育,還有特殊教育等"},{"start":10894.02,"end":10896.02,"text":"多元的一些領域,其實也"},{"start":10896.02,"end":10898.02,"text":"非常需要這個個別化的一個"},{"start":10898.02,"end":10900.02,"text":"輔導跟支持,那我想這個"},{"start":10900.02,"end":10902.02,"text":"全合補助的一個範圍,如果只是"},{"start":10902.02,"end":10904.02,"text":"限於這個國音術三科"},{"start":10904.02,"end":10906.02,"text":"那有可能會導致這個"},{"start":10906.02,"end":10908.02,"text":"學校想要有特殊需求"},{"start":10908.02,"end":10910.02,"text":"的一些孩子在開設其他領域當中"},{"start":10910.02,"end":10912.02,"text":"的一些困難"},{"start":10912.02,"end":10914.02,"text":"所以我在特別在第二項增加了"},{"start":10914.02,"end":10916.02,"text":"因應學生特殊需求之"},{"start":10916.02,"end":10918.02,"text":"輔導課程者"},{"start":10918.02,"end":10920.02,"text":"來解決這樣子的一個局限性"},{"start":10920.02,"end":10922.02,"text":"那就是在這個部分"},{"start":10922.02,"end":10924.02,"text":"有特別"},{"start":10924.02,"end":10926.02,"text":"在這邊有說明"},{"start":10926.02,"end":10928.02,"text":"那我想等一下也聽聽看"},{"start":10928.02,"end":10930.02,"text":"這個教育部有沒有什麼樣的"},{"start":10930.02,"end":10932.02,"text":"一個相關的一些建議,好以上"},{"start":10932.02,"end":10934.02,"text":"好,那教育部這邊"},{"start":10934.02,"end":10936.02,"text":"的意見是"},{"start":10936.02,"end":10938.02,"text":"是,那"},{"start":10938.02,"end":10940.02,"text":"因為這個條文,事實上我們"},{"start":10940.02,"end":10942.02,"text":"已經劃為補助計畫"},{"start":10942.02,"end":10944.02,"text":"是不是條文不用修會比較"},{"start":10944.02,"end":10946.02,"text":"彈性,那現行補助計畫"},{"start":10946.02,"end":10948.02,"text":"給學校有25萬"},{"start":10948.02,"end":10950.02,"text":"有涵蓋剛剛委員講的"},{"start":10950.02,"end":10952.02,"text":"特殊的需求或是甚至科目"},{"start":10952.02,"end":10954.02,"text":"或是校本課程"},{"start":10954.02,"end":10956.02,"text":"那現行這25萬"},{"start":10956.02,"end":10958.02,"text":"以及再加上"},{"start":10958.02,"end":10960.02,"text":"老師的部分的25萬"},{"start":10960.02,"end":10962.02,"text":"整個學校補,委員就稍微"},{"start":10962.02,"end":10964.02,"text":"有清楚嘛,最後有200萬"},{"start":10964.02,"end":10966.02,"text":"再加這25、25,那這整年"},{"start":10966.02,"end":10968.02,"text":"有26億來協助"},{"start":10968.02,"end":10970.02,"text":"那以我最近查"},{"start":10970.02,"end":10972.02,"text":"110年"},{"start":10972.02,"end":10974.02,"text":"到115年的"},{"start":10974.02,"end":10976.02,"text":"會考"},{"start":10976.02,"end":10978.02,"text":"那學生的"},{"start":10978.02,"end":10980.02,"text":"因為這樣持續的努力,偏鄉地區的"},{"start":10980.02,"end":10982.02,"text":"C的部分"},{"start":10982.02,"end":10984.02,"text":"就五科的C的部分"},{"start":10984.02,"end":10986.02,"text":"基本上這五、六年來"},{"start":10986.02,"end":10988.02,"text":"C的部分有變少"},{"start":10988.02,"end":10990.02,"text":"A那個精熟的部分"},{"start":10990.02,"end":10992.02,"text":"有變多,所以"},{"start":10992.02,"end":10994.02,"text":"我們會持續努力,那委員提示的方向"},{"start":10994.02,"end":10996.02,"text":"也是我們很重要努力方向之一"},{"start":10996.02,"end":10998.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10998.02,"end":11000.02,"text":"那我就提那個附帶決議"},{"start":11000.02,"end":11002.02,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":11002.02,"end":11004.02,"text":"那我就來宣告"},{"start":11004.02,"end":11006.02,"text":"第16條的部分"},{"start":11006.02,"end":11008.02,"text":"不予修正,維持現行條文"},{"start":11008.02,"end":11010.02,"text":"郭一群委員"},{"start":11010.02,"end":11012.02,"text":"所提第16條附帶決議"},{"start":11012.02,"end":11014.02,"text":"照案通過"},{"start":11014.02,"end":11016.02,"text":"謝謝,好"},{"start":11016.02,"end":11018.02,"text":"我們進入到第17條之前"},{"start":11018.02,"end":11020.02,"text":"我也說明一下"},{"start":11020.02,"end":11022.02,"text":"因為原先我們是希望"},{"start":11022.02,"end":11024.02,"text":"3點結束"},{"start":11024.02,"end":11026.02,"text":"但是現在已經是3點45分"},{"start":11026.02,"end":11028.02,"text":"我們是不是到第17條"},{"start":11028.02,"end":11030.02,"text":"就留給下一任"},{"start":11030.02,"end":11032.02,"text":"再一任召委來繼續"},{"start":11032.02,"end":11034.02,"text":"拍審,可以嗎"},{"start":11034.02,"end":11036.02,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":11036.02,"end":11038.02,"text":"那今天的第17條"},{"start":11038.02,"end":11040.02,"text":"條文修正有委員羅廷瑋等19人"},{"start":11040.02,"end":11042.02,"text":"及委員伍立華等20人"},{"start":11042.02,"end":11044.02,"text":"有兩個提案"},{"start":11044.02,"end":11046.02,"text":"以及伍立華委員所提之"},{"start":11046.02,"end":11048.02,"text":"修正動議"},{"start":11048.02,"end":11050.02,"text":"那有沒有在場委員"},{"start":11050.02,"end":11052.02,"text":"要來做發言"},{"start":11052.02,"end":11054.02,"text":"來,蔡春雄委員請"},{"start":11056.02,"end":11058.02,"text":"我們是不是這個"},{"start":11058.02,"end":11060.02,"text":"我們第17條修完就結束了"},{"start":11060.02,"end":11062.02,"text":"但是因為我今天"},{"start":11062.02,"end":11064.02,"text":"今天來這邊做"},{"start":11064.02,"end":11066.02,"text":"為了第19條嗎"},{"start":11066.02,"end":11068.02,"text":"我們21條"},{"start":11068.02,"end":11070.02,"text":"我們做一個下午,就是等了這一個"},{"start":11070.02,"end":11072.02,"text":"然後今天這個時間"},{"start":11072.02,"end":11074.02,"text":"也還是上班時間"},{"start":11074.02,"end":11076.02,"text":"那這個條文"},{"start":11076.02,"end":11078.02,"text":"我想也有很多"},{"start":11078.02,"end":11080.02,"text":"學校、地方"},{"start":11080.02,"end":11082.02,"text":"的期待,能夠把它修完"},{"start":11082.02,"end":11084.02,"text":"那現在都還沒有下班"},{"start":11084.02,"end":11086.02,"text":"我們修委員"},{"start":11086.02,"end":11088.02,"text":"還在等我打電話叫他下來"},{"start":11088.02,"end":11090.02,"text":"那你現在"},{"start":11090.02,"end":11092.02,"text":"你要選擇信17條完之後"},{"start":11092.02,"end":11094.02,"text":"你就不審"},{"start":11094.02,"end":11096.02,"text":"那我們今天來陪審"},{"start":11096.02,"end":11098.02,"text":"好,那沒關係"},{"start":11098.02,"end":11100.02,"text":"大家是否同意"},{"start":11100.02,"end":11102.02,"text":"我們就把21條抽出來"},{"start":11102.02,"end":11104.02,"text":"可以嗎,好"},{"start":11104.02,"end":11106.02,"text":"那我們就先處理"},{"start":11106.02,"end":11108.02,"text":"第17條,接著處理21條"},{"start":11108.02,"end":11110.02,"text":"稍等一下我叫一叫"},{"start":11110.02,"end":11112.02,"text":"我們那個"},{"start":11112.02,"end":11114.02,"text":"好,來那我們"},{"start":11114.02,"end":11116.02,"text":"繼續進行第17條"},{"start":11116.02,"end":11118.02,"text":"好"},{"start":11118.02,"end":11120.02,"text":"那第十"},{"start":11120.02,"end":11122.02,"text":"好"},{"start":11122.02,"end":11124.02,"text":"那我們回頭看第九條"},{"start":11124.02,"end":11126.02,"text":"來,麻煩把第九條的文字"},{"start":11126.02,"end":11128.02,"text":"剛才已經有討論過的"},{"start":11128.02,"end":11130.02,"text":"修正文字嗎,好謝謝"},{"start":11132.02,"end":11134.02,"text":"好,那個我剛剛跟他們"},{"start":11134.02,"end":11136.02,"text":"討論了,就是前面"},{"start":11136.02,"end":11138.02,"text":"回到前面一頁好嗎,前面一頁就是"},{"start":11138.02,"end":11140.02,"text":"營運跟維護那個可以加上"},{"start":11140.02,"end":11142.02,"text":"所以為了搭配這一句,然後地方"},{"start":11142.02,"end":11144.02,"text":"政府該做的事情要做"},{"start":11144.02,"end":11146.02,"text":"就在家裡聚焦,但前項"},{"start":11146.02,"end":11148.02,"text":"欸,第一款"},{"start":11148.02,"end":11150.02,"text":"對啊,那個我念給大家聽,麻煩"},{"start":11150.02,"end":11152.02,"text":"打字的醫師人員"},{"start":11152.02,"end":11154.02,"text":"幫忙一下,這邊請加上"},{"start":11154.02,"end":11156.02,"text":"前項所需"},{"start":11156.02,"end":11158.02,"text":"經費"},{"start":11158.02,"end":11160.02,"text":"前項第一款"},{"start":11160.02,"end":11162.02,"text":"等一下,陰醫專款"},{"start":11162.02,"end":11164.02,"text":"專用,但前項"},{"start":11164.02,"end":11166.02,"text":"第一款,有關"},{"start":11166.02,"end":11168.02,"text":"營運及維護設施"},{"start":11168.02,"end":11170.02,"text":"資金費不在"},{"start":11170.02,"end":11172.02,"text":"此線"},{"start":11172.02,"end":11174.02,"text":"維護,設施還是設施"},{"start":11174.02,"end":11176.02,"text":"設施,營運及維護"},{"start":11176.02,"end":11178.02,"text":"好啦"},{"start":11178.02,"end":11180.02,"text":"營運及維護就好了,不要設施啦"},{"start":11182.02,"end":11184.02,"text":"營運及維護資金費不在此線"},{"start":11184.02,"end":11186.02,"text":"對,改成這樣,署長看一下可以嗎"},{"start":11188.02,"end":11190.02,"text":"好"},{"start":11190.02,"end":11192.02,"text":"那我們"},{"start":11192.02,"end":11194.02,"text":"重新宣告"},{"start":11194.02,"end":11196.02,"text":"先宣讀條文"},{"start":11200.02,"end":11202.02,"text":"第九條"},{"start":11202.02,"end":11204.02,"text":"第九條"},{"start":11204.02,"end":11206.02,"text":"主管機關為協助偏遠第七學校"},{"start":11206.02,"end":11208.02,"text":"應考量"},{"start":11208.02,"end":11210.02,"text":"實際需"},{"start":11210.02,"end":11212.02,"text":"要優先採取下一措施"},{"start":11212.02,"end":11216.02,"text":"一,建設營運及維護學校數位藝文體育"},{"start":11216.02,"end":11218.02,"text":"圖書及其他基礎設施"},{"start":11218.02,"end":11224.02,"text":"二,補強學校教育技能訓練所需之教學設備教材及教具"},{"start":11224.02,"end":11228.02,"text":"三,協助學生解決救學及通學困難"},{"start":11228.02,"end":11232.02,"text":"四,提供學生學習輔導及課後輔導"},{"start":11232.02,"end":11236.02,"text":"五,強化學生心理健康與多元支持"},{"start":11236.02,"end":11242.02,"text":"六,加強教職員工、生、衛生保健服務"},{"start":11242.02,"end":11248.02,"text":"七,合理配置教師、行政人員、護理人員、專業輔導人員及社會工作人員"},{"start":11248.02,"end":11250.02,"text":"並協助其專業發展"},{"start":11250.02,"end":11256.02,"text":"八,提供教職員工、生住宿設施或安排適當人力等措施"},{"start":11256.02,"end":11258.02,"text":"前項所需金會"},{"start":11258.02,"end":11266.02,"text":"中央主管機關應依地方政府財力及次及偏遠第七學校級別優於補助"},{"start":11266.02,"end":11268.02,"text":"並應專款專用"},{"start":11268.02,"end":11274.02,"text":"但前項第一款有關營運及維護之金會不在此現"},{"start":11274.02,"end":11276.02,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":11280.02,"end":11286.02,"text":"好,那針對第九條我重新做宣告"},{"start":11286.02,"end":11292.02,"text":"第九條修正通過"},{"start":11292.02,"end":11298.02,"text":"好,我們回到第十七條"},{"start":11298.02,"end":11302.02,"text":"好,那第十七條的部分還有沒有人要做說明"},{"start":11302.02,"end":11306.02,"text":"那因為剛才也有人都一併說明了"},{"start":11306.02,"end":11310.02,"text":"那我就不再贅述"},{"start":11310.02,"end":11314.02,"text":"但是我有提一個修正動議版本"},{"start":11314.02,"end":11316.02,"text":"我來做一個說明"},{"start":11316.02,"end":11318.02,"text":"修正動議的部分"},{"start":11318.02,"end":11320.02,"text":"我是希望說"},{"start":11320.02,"end":11324.02,"text":"在第十、第六款的部分"},{"start":11324.02,"end":11326.02,"text":"我做這樣的修正"},{"start":11326.02,"end":11328.02,"text":"就是運用第十五條"},{"start":11328.02,"end":11332.02,"text":"因為剛才既然第十五條已經通過"},{"start":11332.02,"end":11335.02,"text":"運用第十五條支持機制資源"},{"start":11335.02,"end":11337.02,"text":"辦理教學創新"},{"start":11337.02,"end":11339.02,"text":"教師專業發展等"},{"start":11339.02,"end":11343.02,"text":"提升教學品質之措施"},{"start":11343.02,"end":11345.02,"text":"好,教育部"},{"start":11345.02,"end":11349.02,"text":"好,那我就來做宣告"},{"start":11349.02,"end":11351.02,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":11351.02,"end":11353.02,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":11353.02,"end":11355.02,"text":"好,第十七條"},{"start":11355.02,"end":11359.02,"text":"照委員伍立華所提之修正動議通過"},{"start":11359.02,"end":11361.02,"text":"好"},{"start":11361.02,"end":11363.02,"text":"那剛才因為大家同意"},{"start":11363.02,"end":11365.02,"text":"把第二十一條抽出來"},{"start":11365.02,"end":11367.02,"text":"那希望在這個部分"},{"start":11367.02,"end":11369.02,"text":"就做一個告一個段落"},{"start":11369.02,"end":11375.02,"text":"因為陳培宇委員是教文委員下一任的照委"},{"start":11375.02,"end":11379.02,"text":"那因為他對偏鄉教育條例也非常的關心"},{"start":11379.02,"end":11381.02,"text":"所以因為條文很多"},{"start":11381.02,"end":11383.02,"text":"然後加上有三十九個提案版本"},{"start":11383.02,"end":11387.02,"text":"那我們大概處理到這邊"},{"start":11387.02,"end":11389.02,"text":"算是已經走一半"},{"start":11389.02,"end":11391.02,"text":"那請大家多多體諒包涵"},{"start":11391.02,"end":11393.02,"text":"多多體諒包涵"},{"start":11393.02,"end":11395.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11395.02,"end":11397.02,"text":"好,第二十一條條文修正"},{"start":11397.02,"end":11399.02,"text":"由委員盧憲怡等二十人等九個提案"},{"start":11399.02,"end":11401.02,"text":"以及委員蔡春筹等人"},{"start":11401.02,"end":11403.02,"text":"所提之修正動議"},{"start":11403.02,"end":11405.02,"text":"好,有沒有委員要發言"},{"start":11405.02,"end":11407.02,"text":"來,那我們依序"},{"start":11407.02,"end":11409.02,"text":"張雅玲委員、郭怡琴委員"},{"start":11409.02,"end":11411.02,"text":"邱慧如委員、蔡春筹委員"},{"start":11411.02,"end":11413.02,"text":"請"},{"start":11413.02,"end":11415.02,"text":"好,那我想就是"},{"start":11415.02,"end":11417.02,"text":"我們今年在質詢的時候"},{"start":11417.02,"end":11419.02,"text":"我就已經有要求教育部"},{"start":11419.02,"end":11421.02,"text":"然後我們在東方大社會福利津貼"},{"start":11421.02,"end":11423.02,"text":"來去建立九院獎金的CPI調整機制"},{"start":11423.02,"end":11425.02,"text":"因為整個物價在波動"},{"start":11425.02,"end":11427.02,"text":"但是我們的相關的"},{"start":11427.02,"end":11429.02,"text":"流量獎金或是生活補助"},{"start":11429.02,"end":11431.02,"text":"只要金額固定的話"},{"start":11431.02,"end":11433.02,"text":"實質的價值就一定會受到"},{"start":11433.02,"end":11435.02,"text":"這個物價的波動"},{"start":11435.02,"end":11437.02,"text":"就例如說可能十年前的雞腿便當"},{"start":11437.02,"end":11439.02,"text":"跟現在十年後的雞腿便當"},{"start":11439.02,"end":11441.02,"text":"完全是不一樣的金額"},{"start":11441.02,"end":11443.02,"text":"那所以我是希望可以"},{"start":11443.02,"end":11445.02,"text":"就在條文裡面去增加"},{"start":11445.02,"end":11447.02,"text":"其實獎金金額應該依我們的CPI"},{"start":11447.02,"end":11452.78,"text":"消費者物價指數的變動情形來定期檢討跟調整"},{"start":11452.78,"end":11456.42,"text":"那再來還有就是說在年資計算方面呢"},{"start":11456.42,"end":11458.060000000001,"text":"教育部的報告自己也有承認說"},{"start":11458.060000000001,"end":11462.18,"text":"如果教師是因為原校未開缺等不可規則的因素"},{"start":11462.18,"end":11465.34,"text":"轉任其他偏鄉學校或留職停薪復職"},{"start":11465.34,"end":11467.220000000001,"text":"前後年資可以何必計算"},{"start":11467.220000000001,"end":11472.78,"text":"那商界人員也可以依據在偏鄉服務的年資按比例領取"},{"start":11472.78,"end":11476.380000000001,"text":"那既然現行的制度就已經可以彈性認定的話呢"},{"start":11476.42,"end":11479.3,"text":"那我們應該是可以把規則定得更清楚"},{"start":11479.3,"end":11481.38,"text":"避免真正留在偏鄉服務的人"},{"start":11481.38,"end":11484.98,"text":"因為行政異動啊就變成年資歸零"},{"start":11484.98,"end":11487.9,"text":"那最後這個就任的適用對象"},{"start":11487.9,"end":11491.42,"text":"也應該要完整的涵蓋到我們的專聘教師代理教師"},{"start":11491.42,"end":11496.46,"text":"或者是位居教師資格的限職代理老師輔導人員等等的"},{"start":11496.46,"end":11498.46,"text":"因為我想偏鄉教育的支持"},{"start":11498.46,"end":11499.779999999999,"text":"除了老師之外"},{"start":11499.779999999999,"end":11502.859999999999,"text":"還有整個團隊都應該要被我們支持"},{"start":11502.86,"end":11505.78,"text":"才有辦法穩定我們在偏鄉地域的"},{"start":11505.78,"end":11508.300000000001,"text":"地區的這個學生的受教權"},{"start":11508.300000000001,"end":11508.78,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11512.54,"end":11513.02,"text":"好"},{"start":11513.02,"end":11515.74,"text":"第21條這個部分"},{"start":11515.74,"end":11517.900000000001,"text":"我想這個偏遠地區的學校"},{"start":11517.900000000001,"end":11520.460000000001,"text":"因為正是師資的一個招聘不易"},{"start":11520.460000000001,"end":11523.5,"text":"那長期以來其實都是仰賴代理教師"},{"start":11523.5,"end":11525.94,"text":"站在這個第一線來守護孩子的學習"},{"start":11525.94,"end":11530.980000000001,"text":"那我想有許多具備合格教師證書的優秀代理教師"},{"start":11530.98,"end":11535.1,"text":"其實他們也希望能夠有這樣子一個熱忱能夠深入偏鄉"},{"start":11535.1,"end":11536.18,"text":"但是年復一年"},{"start":11536.18,"end":11541.859999999999,"text":"他們所承載的這個承擔跟這個正式教師"},{"start":11541.859999999999,"end":11544.74,"text":"其實幾乎是沒有兩樣的一個"},{"start":11544.74,"end":11546.74,"text":"身上的一個擔任教師"},{"start":11546.74,"end":11549.1,"text":"或者是在導師上的一個負擔"},{"start":11549.1,"end":11553.38,"text":"那如果沒有一個久任的一個激勵的機制"},{"start":11553.38,"end":11557.38,"text":"那或者是沒有嚴格去區分所謂的專業的資格"},{"start":11557.38,"end":11559.82,"text":"我想這個比較難以在偏鄉"},{"start":11559.86,"end":11564.66,"text":"為這些孩子主持一道比較穩固的一個教學品質的一個高牆"},{"start":11564.66,"end":11567.74,"text":"那所以這個部分我是特別只有"},{"start":11567.74,"end":11571.5,"text":"是加了一個就是具備合格證書之代理教師"},{"start":11571.5,"end":11573.26,"text":"就是只有加這一句"},{"start":11573.26,"end":11576.42,"text":"那我希望就是能夠為這個長期投身"},{"start":11576.42,"end":11580.42,"text":"偏鄉然後具備完整專業訓練的合格代理教師"},{"start":11580.42,"end":11584.699999999999,"text":"提供一個比較實質的一個久任的獎金跟激勵的一個措施"},{"start":11584.699999999999,"end":11589.46,"text":"那另外也鼓勵有更多具備合格證書的一些優秀的教師"},{"start":11589.46,"end":11591.019999999999,"text":"能夠走進偏鄉"},{"start":11591.019999999999,"end":11594.06,"text":"那我想這個部分才能夠讓這個偏鄉的孩子"},{"start":11594.06,"end":11598.46,"text":"享有最專業同時也是優質的一個教育的環境"},{"start":11598.46,"end":11602.58,"text":"那這個部分等一下聽一下這個教育部這邊的說法"},{"start":11602.58,"end":11603.06,"text":"以上"},{"start":11604.5,"end":11604.859999999999,"text":"好"},{"start":11607.46,"end":11608.98,"text":"梅委員還是"},{"start":11608.98,"end":11610.339999999998,"text":"邱惠如委員先"},{"start":11610.339999999998,"end":11610.779999999999,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11610.779999999999,"end":11611.66,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":11611.66,"end":11614.339999999998,"text":"謝謝培育委員"},{"start":11615.3,"end":11618.259999999998,"text":"關於這個偏遠地區的久任獎金"},{"start":11618.300000000001,"end":11622.74,"text":"我想這一條的立法目的是想要為偏鄉留住人才"},{"start":11622.74,"end":11626.66,"text":"那才能夠給我們這個偏鄉的一些學子更好的"},{"start":11626.66,"end":11630.58,"text":"不管是教育上的資源或者是健康上的資源"},{"start":11630.58,"end":11633.62,"text":"那久任獎金當然這個是利益良善"},{"start":11633.62,"end":11636.7,"text":"那我們看一下二十一條的第一項的主體"},{"start":11636.7,"end":11640.86,"text":"跟二十一條第二項的主體有六類人員"},{"start":11640.86,"end":11643.62,"text":"但是校戶卻不在這個範圍之內"},{"start":11643.62,"end":11647.02,"text":"那我想我在這邊想要替校戶來這個發聲"},{"start":11647.060000000001,"end":11651.18,"text":"因為校戶在偏遠地區其實也是守護這些學子的健康"},{"start":11651.18,"end":11652.66,"text":"維護他們的安全"},{"start":11652.66,"end":11655.9,"text":"所以他們的貢獻應該被看重"},{"start":11655.9,"end":11657.78,"text":"那如果排除於他們的話"},{"start":11657.78,"end":11661.42,"text":"可能也會讓他們覺得為什麼他們會被排除"},{"start":11661.42,"end":11664.98,"text":"是不是因為我們護理的專業價值不被重視"},{"start":11664.98,"end":11668.9,"text":"所以我們在這邊真的很希望能夠來替校戶發聲"},{"start":11668.9,"end":11670.380000000001,"text":"那除此之外"},{"start":11670.380000000001,"end":11673.42,"text":"我不知道大家有沒有注意到二十二條的第二項"},{"start":11673.42,"end":11676.26,"text":"其實偏遠地區的幼兒園有三類人員"},{"start":11676.300000000001,"end":11680.14,"text":"分別是行政人員、教教人員還有其他人員"},{"start":11680.14,"end":11682.78,"text":"其實也是準用二十一條第一項"},{"start":11682.78,"end":11684.7,"text":"所以換言之有九類人員"},{"start":11684.7,"end":11688.02,"text":"其實都領有偏遠地區的久任獎金"},{"start":11688.02,"end":11690.5,"text":"那大家都是在偏遠地區服務"},{"start":11690.5,"end":11694.62,"text":"然後都是在為學子的健康跟安全在努力"},{"start":11694.62,"end":11696.74,"text":"那同工卻不同仇"},{"start":11696.74,"end":11699.82,"text":"所謂的仇就是有些人有久任獎金"},{"start":11699.82,"end":11701.380000000001,"text":"但有些人卻沒有"},{"start":11701.380000000001,"end":11704.34,"text":"所以我在這邊真的很想替校戶發聲"},{"start":11704.380000000001,"end":11706.74,"text":"請看看我們校戶的努力"},{"start":11706.74,"end":11709.26,"text":"還有要加值我們校戶的貢獻"},{"start":11709.26,"end":11711.62,"text":"那我想除了校戶之外"},{"start":11711.62,"end":11718.74,"text":"這個教練還有學校所備至的營養師或合併的營養師"},{"start":11718.74,"end":11721.380000000001,"text":"跟校戶一樣有這種心聲"},{"start":11721.380000000001,"end":11723.58,"text":"那也請這個我們教育部在這邊"},{"start":11723.58,"end":11726.34,"text":"能夠看重這三類人員的專業價值"},{"start":11726.34,"end":11728.1,"text":"那我記得三月的時候"},{"start":11728.1,"end":11731.62,"text":"我有質詢過教育部長關於校戶的久任獎金"},{"start":11731.62,"end":11734.54,"text":"然後教育部長說要把這個問題帶回去研究"},{"start":11734.54,"end":11738.140000000001,"text":"那感覺不知道是不是然後就沒有然後了"},{"start":11738.140000000001,"end":11740.820000000002,"text":"那今天的這個逐條審查"},{"start":11740.820000000002,"end":11742.54,"text":"那也希望教育部能夠看重"},{"start":11742.54,"end":11744.220000000001,"text":"不管是校戶也好"},{"start":11744.220000000001,"end":11745.300000000001,"text":"教練也好"},{"start":11745.300000000001,"end":11746.26,"text":"營養師也好"},{"start":11746.26,"end":11748.26,"text":"他們在偏遠地區的專業貢獻"},{"start":11748.26,"end":11749.26,"text":"以上說明謝謝"},{"start":11750.820000000002,"end":11751.980000000001,"text":"蔡村仇委員"},{"start":11751.980000000001,"end":11753.18,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":11753.18,"end":11755.7,"text":"我針對我們會入委員"},{"start":11755.7,"end":11756.94,"text":"之後呢我在做"},{"start":11756.94,"end":11760.5,"text":"他剛剛說明的我再補強一點"},{"start":11760.5,"end":11763.22,"text":"那我想這一個久任獎金"},{"start":11763.22,"end":11767.38,"text":"可以因應我們剛剛討論的第七跟第八條"},{"start":11767.38,"end":11768.98,"text":"雖然是保留"},{"start":11768.98,"end":11771.58,"text":"但是這個也是一個誘因"},{"start":11771.58,"end":11774.94,"text":"因為我們在偏鄉的所有的老師"},{"start":11774.94,"end":11776.82,"text":"不管是老師或是行政人員"},{"start":11776.82,"end":11779.82,"text":"事實上他們都非常的辛苦"},{"start":11779.82,"end":11783.58,"text":"那我們除了剛剛除了講教練"},{"start":11783.58,"end":11784.86,"text":"教練護理老師"},{"start":11784.86,"end":11787.14,"text":"還有營養師之外"},{"start":11787.14,"end":11788.42,"text":"還有行政人員"},{"start":11788.42,"end":11789.54,"text":"我是覺得"},{"start":11789.580000000002,"end":11792.34,"text":"應該要把偏鄉的所有老師"},{"start":11792.34,"end":11794.5,"text":"都要有久任獎金"},{"start":11794.5,"end":11796.02,"text":"而不要抽了幾個"},{"start":11796.02,"end":11798.86,"text":"那這樣等於有不平等的一個待遇"},{"start":11798.86,"end":11802.34,"text":"這個對任何一個人員來講"},{"start":11802.34,"end":11803.580000000002,"text":"其實都不公平"},{"start":11803.580000000002,"end":11805.5,"text":"一樣都在那邊工作"},{"start":11805.5,"end":11807.980000000001,"text":"所以我覺得除了我們提的"},{"start":11807.980000000001,"end":11809.54,"text":"行政人員"},{"start":11809.54,"end":11810.42,"text":"運動"},{"start":11811.300000000001,"end":11812.18,"text":"專業教練"},{"start":11812.18,"end":11814.62,"text":"還有護理老師跟營養師"},{"start":11814.62,"end":11815.78,"text":"那營養師呢"},{"start":11815.78,"end":11818.060000000001,"text":"最主要是因應我們未來"},{"start":11818.1,"end":11819.939999999999,"text":"營養午餐專法"},{"start":11819.939999999999,"end":11820.699999999999,"text":"會"},{"start":11822.9,"end":11824.46,"text":"很快就會在學校"},{"start":11824.46,"end":11827.66,"text":"來做這樣的一個實施"},{"start":11827.66,"end":11831.5,"text":"所以我們就要把學校的營養師"},{"start":11831.5,"end":11833.58,"text":"合併起來"},{"start":11833.58,"end":11835.82,"text":"這一個也共同能夠把"},{"start":11835.82,"end":11837.859999999999,"text":"這個久任獎金把它納入"},{"start":11837.859999999999,"end":11838.82,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":11840.46,"end":11840.9,"text":"好"},{"start":11840.9,"end":11841.939999999999,"text":"還有沒有其他委員"},{"start":11841.939999999999,"end":11843.46,"text":"來 陳培育委員"},{"start":11843.46,"end":11845.06,"text":"其實這一條我也有提案"},{"start":11845.06,"end":11846.38,"text":"但是我剛剛"},{"start":11846.38,"end":11847.699999999999,"text":"我之前再確認過"},{"start":11847.7,"end":11850.02,"text":"在新版才化法之後"},{"start":11850.02,"end":11852.140000000001,"text":"這個費用現在是回到地方政府"},{"start":11852.140000000001,"end":11854.58,"text":"所以雖然我們大家對於"},{"start":11854.58,"end":11856.34,"text":"不論是加入護理師"},{"start":11856.34,"end":11857.62,"text":"或者是剛剛蔡村雄委員"},{"start":11857.62,"end":11859.300000000001,"text":"他們的修正動力裡面"},{"start":11859.300000000001,"end":11861.900000000001,"text":"甚至還提到跨校的部分"},{"start":11861.900000000001,"end":11863.460000000001,"text":"各式各樣的人員"},{"start":11863.460000000001,"end":11865.300000000001,"text":"不僅要納入還有跨校的部分"},{"start":11865.300000000001,"end":11866.42,"text":"那到底地方政府"},{"start":11866.42,"end":11867.54,"text":"是不是可以願意接受"},{"start":11867.54,"end":11869.66,"text":"等一下請國教署說明一下"},{"start":11869.66,"end":11871.5,"text":"當然我相信提案這個版本的委員"},{"start":11871.5,"end":11872.62,"text":"都是希望"},{"start":11872.62,"end":11874.740000000002,"text":"把各式各樣在偏鄉服務的"},{"start":11874.740000000002,"end":11876.060000000001,"text":"行政專職人員也好"},{"start":11876.06,"end":11877.66,"text":"或是各式各樣的專業人員"},{"start":11877.66,"end":11878.82,"text":"包含老師"},{"start":11878.82,"end":11880.3,"text":"都一併納入"},{"start":11880.3,"end":11881.699999999999,"text":"但是未來經費規模"},{"start":11881.699999999999,"end":11883.06,"text":"到底會長成什麼樣子"},{"start":11883.06,"end":11884.5,"text":"這是一個問題"},{"start":11884.5,"end":11884.98,"text":"第二個"},{"start":11884.98,"end":11886.9,"text":"我們當時在設計這個偏鄉條例"},{"start":11886.9,"end":11889.5,"text":"107年的時候是希望"},{"start":11889.5,"end":11891.42,"text":"鼓勵老師留在偏鄉久一點"},{"start":11891.42,"end":11893.18,"text":"所以我們當時設計了8年"},{"start":11893.18,"end":11894.779999999999,"text":"11年等等"},{"start":11894.779999999999,"end":11897.58,"text":"那也因為之前真的收到太多"},{"start":11897.58,"end":11898.859999999999,"text":"偏鄉久任獎金"},{"start":11898.859999999999,"end":11901.18,"text":"請領資格爭議的陳情"},{"start":11901.18,"end":11903.34,"text":"所以當時在質詢的時候"},{"start":11903.34,"end":11905.619999999999,"text":"署長還承諾說"},{"start":11905.660000000002,"end":11907.58,"text":"每15天會修正一次"},{"start":11907.58,"end":11910.26,"text":"偏鄉久任獎金問答級"},{"start":11910.26,"end":11912.1,"text":"但是因為我相信"},{"start":11912.1,"end":11914.58,"text":"複雜的個案跟各個鄉"},{"start":11914.58,"end":11915.7,"text":"跟各個市政府"},{"start":11915.7,"end":11918.380000000001,"text":"縣市政府的狀況真的太多元了"},{"start":11918.380000000001,"end":11920.26,"text":"我相信在那個問答級當中"},{"start":11920.26,"end":11922.42,"text":"可能沒有辦法解決所有的問題"},{"start":11922.42,"end":11923.380000000001,"text":"所以我想這個問"},{"start":11923.380000000001,"end":11925.380000000001,"text":"這一條雖然我自己有版本"},{"start":11925.380000000001,"end":11927.7,"text":"那不過既然我們下個會期要討論"},{"start":11927.7,"end":11928.7,"text":"我還是希望國教署"},{"start":11928.7,"end":11930.1,"text":"把相關的問題帶回去"},{"start":11930.1,"end":11931.900000000001,"text":"第一個就是經費的規模"},{"start":11931.900000000001,"end":11934.78,"text":"如果它牽涉到了化校"},{"start":11934.78,"end":11937.18,"text":"它牽涉到了更多專業服務的人員"},{"start":11937.18,"end":11938.980000000001,"text":"都要的話那會是什麼樣子"},{"start":11938.980000000001,"end":11939.820000000002,"text":"第二個"},{"start":11939.820000000002,"end":11941.460000000001,"text":"那相關的"},{"start":11942.380000000001,"end":11943.62,"text":"問答級這件事情"},{"start":11943.62,"end":11945.460000000001,"text":"未來要如何協助地方政府"},{"start":11945.460000000001,"end":11948.1,"text":"或是地方政府要如何協助國教署"},{"start":11948.1,"end":11949.980000000001,"text":"然後再來就是久任的部分"},{"start":11949.980000000001,"end":11951.300000000001,"text":"其實我們已經有聽到"},{"start":11951.300000000001,"end":11953.42,"text":"有一些學者專家在建議"},{"start":11953.42,"end":11955.34,"text":"要不要乾脆改成就任"},{"start":11955.34,"end":11958.7,"text":"也就是讓他不要真的看得到吃不到"},{"start":11958.7,"end":11960.66,"text":"那只是原本比較大筆的獎金"},{"start":11960.66,"end":11961.980000000001,"text":"如何在就任期間"},{"start":11961.980000000001,"end":11963.460000000001,"text":"改成小筆小筆的獎金"},{"start":11963.5,"end":11966.14,"text":"是不是也有一種可能是可以往這裡去想"},{"start":11966.14,"end":11969.9,"text":"那我覺得我們就在立法院裡面討論這麼多"},{"start":11969.9,"end":11971.66,"text":"那不如拜託國教署"},{"start":11971.66,"end":11973.259999999998,"text":"在未來這幾個月當中"},{"start":11973.259999999998,"end":11974.699999999999,"text":"持續跟地方政府溝通"},{"start":11974.699999999999,"end":11976.779999999999,"text":"跟老師團體溝通"},{"start":11976.779999999999,"end":11977.939999999999,"text":"可能會更有幫助"},{"start":11977.939999999999,"end":11979.859999999999,"text":"但我想我們今天開啟這個討論"},{"start":11979.859999999999,"end":11980.9,"text":"還是非常重要"},{"start":11980.9,"end":11981.539999999999,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11981.539999999999,"end":11982.699999999999,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":11982.699999999999,"end":11984.019999999999,"text":"來 歸情委員"},{"start":11985.14,"end":11986.06,"text":"好"},{"start":11986.06,"end":11989.619999999999,"text":"我也呼應一下就是剛剛這個民眾黨"},{"start":11989.619999999999,"end":11992.619999999999,"text":"他們所提到的這個相互的這個部分"},{"start":11992.62,"end":11994.58,"text":"我記得是在兩年前的"},{"start":11994.58,"end":11997.62,"text":"大概是10月23號的時候"},{"start":11997.62,"end":12000.7,"text":"其實我有將這個效護的這個加急的部分"},{"start":12000.7,"end":12003.380000000001,"text":"其實有沒有被獨露這些問題"},{"start":12003.380000000001,"end":12004.7,"text":"我有提出一些質詢"},{"start":12004.7,"end":12006.660000000002,"text":"那當初其實"},{"start":12006.660000000002,"end":12008.140000000001,"text":"衛福部當然也說"},{"start":12008.140000000001,"end":12011.18,"text":"這個效護人員不應該被排除在外"},{"start":12011.18,"end":12013.140000000001,"text":"這個當然衛福部表示認同"},{"start":12013.140000000001,"end":12015.660000000002,"text":"你應該是要爭取這個醫護人員的加急"},{"start":12015.660000000002,"end":12019.740000000002,"text":"但是包含這個所謂的這個公立的醫療診所"},{"start":12019.740000000002,"end":12021.460000000001,"text":"還有醫療醫院的機構"},{"start":12021.46,"end":12023.019999999999,"text":"還有這個學校的校戶"},{"start":12023.019999999999,"end":12025.539999999999,"text":"公立學校的這個校戶的部分"},{"start":12025.539999999999,"end":12027.38,"text":"也應該要包含在其中"},{"start":12027.38,"end":12029.9,"text":"那教育部那時候當初的回應"},{"start":12029.9,"end":12031.699999999999,"text":"就是說校戶是屬於這個教育部"},{"start":12031.699999999999,"end":12033.66,"text":"是主管的一個範圍"},{"start":12033.66,"end":12035.46,"text":"但是這個校戶的薪酬"},{"start":12035.46,"end":12037.9,"text":"其實是來自於地方政府的一個預算"},{"start":12037.9,"end":12039.14,"text":"所以其實也在"},{"start":12039.14,"end":12040.58,"text":"當時我在質詢的時候"},{"start":12040.58,"end":12042.9,"text":"就是說要爭取這個地方政府"},{"start":12042.9,"end":12044.58,"text":"他們的一些意見"},{"start":12044.58,"end":12047.38,"text":"那當然如果有這樣子的一個依據的話"},{"start":12047.38,"end":12049.22,"text":"之後是不是可以作為這個校戶"},{"start":12049.22,"end":12052.42,"text":"他們才爭取自己本身的這個薪資同步"},{"start":12052.42,"end":12054.58,"text":"來做調整這樣子的一個依據"},{"start":12054.58,"end":12056.66,"text":"那我也想聽一下就是"},{"start":12056.66,"end":12059.42,"text":"當初其實我們已經這兩年前的事情"},{"start":12059.42,"end":12060.619999999999,"text":"就已經有這樣反應過"},{"start":12060.619999999999,"end":12062.859999999999,"text":"那兩年之後的現在"},{"start":12062.859999999999,"end":12065.26,"text":"這個部分我們跟地方政府怎麼溝通呢"},{"start":12065.26,"end":12067.019999999999,"text":"溝通的結果大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":12067.019999999999,"end":12068.619999999999,"text":"可以請教醫護說明一下"},{"start":12068.619999999999,"end":12069.42,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":12069.42,"end":12070.38,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":12070.38,"end":12073.06,"text":"那我這邊也有版本"},{"start":12073.06,"end":12075.5,"text":"其實大家都認同"},{"start":12075.5,"end":12078.98,"text":"整部法裡面第21條應該是"},{"start":12078.98,"end":12082.1,"text":"偏鄉到底能不能留的住人"},{"start":12082.1,"end":12084.699999999999,"text":"最直接的一個條文"},{"start":12084.699999999999,"end":12090.1,"text":"那當然我是不需要跟我澄清"},{"start":12090.1,"end":12092.18,"text":"因為我以前在教育現場"},{"start":12092.18,"end":12094.02,"text":"其實我最最最"},{"start":12094.02,"end":12100.58,"text":"我覺得我最覺得不忍的就是教練"},{"start":12100.58,"end":12104.26,"text":"因為真的教練的薪水很低"},{"start":12104.26,"end":12107.02,"text":"然後陪伴的時間最長"},{"start":12107.060000000001,"end":12110.62,"text":"甚至是早上四五點就要起來"},{"start":12110.62,"end":12112.5,"text":"陪著學生"},{"start":12112.5,"end":12114.74,"text":"還有假日 他們根本沒假日"},{"start":12114.74,"end":12117.54,"text":"然後人家的下班就是他們的上班"},{"start":12117.54,"end":12121.94,"text":"所以我其實是覺得像教練"},{"start":12121.94,"end":12124.58,"text":"尤其是偏鄉的孩子大家都很知道"},{"start":12124.58,"end":12126.460000000001,"text":"一定有運動團隊"},{"start":12126.460000000001,"end":12130.7,"text":"因為他們都希望能夠多一項專長"},{"start":12130.7,"end":12133.26,"text":"讓他們未來多一個進路"},{"start":12133.300000000001,"end":12137.34,"text":"所以我覺得像護理師 護士這些"},{"start":12137.34,"end":12138.54,"text":"我也有版本"},{"start":12138.54,"end":12140.54,"text":"但是像教練"},{"start":12140.54,"end":12144.06,"text":"我是更是覺得這個是所有"},{"start":12144.06,"end":12146.58,"text":"如果問說哪一些人最需要"},{"start":12146.58,"end":12149.18,"text":"我個人覺得教練最需要"},{"start":12149.18,"end":12152.18,"text":"真的他們很需要我們的關注"},{"start":12152.18,"end":12154.58,"text":"那其他的包括第11條"},{"start":12154.58,"end":12157.7,"text":"第一項聘用的這些行政人力"},{"start":12157.7,"end":12160.34,"text":"我是希望跟大家的意見一致"},{"start":12160.380000000001,"end":12164.380000000001,"text":"全部只要待在同一個學校"},{"start":12164.380000000001,"end":12167.54,"text":"我們應該都有相同要面對的"},{"start":12167.54,"end":12172.02,"text":"交通住宿 生活機能不足所造成的成本"},{"start":12172.02,"end":12174.94,"text":"不應該有任何一個人被排除在外"},{"start":12174.94,"end":12177.18,"text":"那只不過因為才華法之後"},{"start":12177.18,"end":12178.3,"text":"我們都很清楚"},{"start":12178.3,"end":12180.380000000001,"text":"這筆錢要來自地方政府"},{"start":12180.380000000001,"end":12182.98,"text":"那到底我們的條文要怎麼寫"},{"start":12182.98,"end":12185.58,"text":"跟地方政府要如何溝通"},{"start":12185.58,"end":12189.58,"text":"讓這一條確實能夠入法執行"},{"start":12189.62,"end":12191.66,"text":"那這是我個人的意見"},{"start":12191.66,"end":12194.66,"text":"那現在就請教育部表示意見"},{"start":12197.5,"end":12198.18,"text":"好 謝謝蕭瑋"},{"start":12198.18,"end":12201.14,"text":"剛才有七位委員人次"},{"start":12201.14,"end":12204.94,"text":"分別關心適用人員的類別"},{"start":12204.94,"end":12206.9,"text":"還有給予的金額"},{"start":12206.9,"end":12209.1,"text":"要不要按照CPI來調整"},{"start":12209.1,"end":12210.9,"text":"大概這兩大意見"},{"start":12210.9,"end":12213.46,"text":"那首先就人員類別來講的確"},{"start":12213.46,"end":12217.1,"text":"那未來因為是地方政府在支應上"},{"start":12217.1,"end":12219.34,"text":"要非常多的討論跟尊重"},{"start":12219.380000000001,"end":12220.3,"text":"我隨便"},{"start":12220.3,"end":12222.22,"text":"剛剛有幾位委員建議說"},{"start":12222.22,"end":12223.94,"text":"我來舉一個"},{"start":12223.94,"end":12225.58,"text":"有幾位委員關心到校戶"},{"start":12225.58,"end":12226.82,"text":"怎麼討論了"},{"start":12226.82,"end":12228.380000000001,"text":"所以我們也討論了"},{"start":12228.380000000001,"end":12232.98,"text":"那我們目前的校戶有1149位"},{"start":12232.98,"end":12236.1,"text":"那麼在PWG在極偏地區有130位"},{"start":12236.1,"end":12237.02,"text":"類似這樣"},{"start":12237.02,"end":12238.66,"text":"我們大概都有掌握"},{"start":12238.66,"end":12241.380000000001,"text":"那可能整體地方政府"},{"start":12241.380000000001,"end":12242.66,"text":"要一起來支出的話"},{"start":12242.66,"end":12246.22,"text":"會達到兩億五千萬"},{"start":12246.22,"end":12247.34,"text":"就是校戶類別"},{"start":12247.380000000001,"end":12249.7,"text":"因為前面有幾位委員關心"},{"start":12249.7,"end":12250.66,"text":"有沒有去了解"},{"start":12250.66,"end":12253.460000000001,"text":"那我們就真的去開會了解"},{"start":12253.460000000001,"end":12255.42,"text":"以及有一些探討"},{"start":12255.42,"end":12258.54,"text":"那終究剛剛加上召回講的教練"},{"start":12258.54,"end":12260.82,"text":"或是待在同一學校的其他人員"},{"start":12260.82,"end":12264.02,"text":"屬性其實感覺很像"},{"start":12264.02,"end":12266.62,"text":"但是是不是在地方政府"},{"start":12266.62,"end":12269.74,"text":"在各地方看到的情形如何"},{"start":12269.74,"end":12271.82,"text":"我們覺得還是來好好的"},{"start":12271.82,"end":12272.66,"text":"大家討論一下"},{"start":12272.66,"end":12275.62,"text":"一樣會放在九月份的"},{"start":12275.660000000002,"end":12277.740000000002,"text":"相關的從第七條開始"},{"start":12277.740000000002,"end":12280.1,"text":"有關跟地方政府要一起探討的"},{"start":12280.1,"end":12282.1,"text":"都會在一層內"},{"start":12282.1,"end":12285.42,"text":"那另外有個探討說"},{"start":12285.42,"end":12288.380000000001,"text":"是不是我們以前決定的"},{"start":12288.380000000001,"end":12290.42,"text":"那一個包含11萬"},{"start":12290.42,"end":12292.1,"text":"或是極偏地區22萬"},{"start":12292.1,"end":12293.220000000001,"text":"這些等等的"},{"start":12293.220000000001,"end":12295.58,"text":"會不會要按照物價指數"},{"start":12295.58,"end":12296.980000000001,"text":"有一點微調"},{"start":12296.980000000001,"end":12299.62,"text":"我覺得這也是一個很重要的考慮"},{"start":12299.62,"end":12302.980000000001,"text":"所以以上就人員適用的類別"},{"start":12302.980000000001,"end":12304.7,"text":"或是有一些金額上"},{"start":12304.740000000002,"end":12306.140000000001,"text":"有沒有討論的空間"},{"start":12306.140000000001,"end":12307.5,"text":"這個我們都會放在九月上"},{"start":12307.5,"end":12308.26,"text":"一成謝謝"},{"start":12308.26,"end":12309.26,"text":"補充完畢"},{"start":12312.820000000002,"end":12314.1,"text":"請教各位委員"},{"start":12314.1,"end":12316.34,"text":"因為剛才教育部署長"},{"start":12316.34,"end":12318.58,"text":"他們有回應說"},{"start":12318.58,"end":12321.140000000001,"text":"連同剛才有很多的條文"},{"start":12321.140000000001,"end":12324.42,"text":"九月會跟地方政府溝通"},{"start":12324.42,"end":12325.5,"text":"所以這一條"},{"start":12325.5,"end":12328.300000000001,"text":"確實也必須跟地方政府溝通"},{"start":12328.300000000001,"end":12330.220000000001,"text":"所以因為要不然"},{"start":12330.220000000001,"end":12332.42,"text":"地方不支持形同句文"},{"start":12332.42,"end":12334.220000000001,"text":"我們也很難交代好不好"},{"start":12334.26,"end":12335.179999999998,"text":"就一併保留"},{"start":12335.179999999998,"end":12336.939999999999,"text":"好那就一併保留"},{"start":12336.939999999999,"end":12339.099999999999,"text":"好那我們就宣讀"},{"start":12339.099999999999,"end":12342.98,"text":"第21條做暫時保留"},{"start":12342.98,"end":12345.38,"text":"好那"},{"start":12345.38,"end":12348.26,"text":"因為現在時間的關係"},{"start":12348.26,"end":12352.82,"text":"所以我在剛才很多委員的一個"},{"start":12352.82,"end":12354.5,"text":"體育之下"},{"start":12354.5,"end":12356.26,"text":"希望我們就今天"},{"start":12356.26,"end":12357.82,"text":"暫時到這個地方"},{"start":12357.82,"end":12359.34,"text":"做告一個段落"},{"start":12359.34,"end":12360.779999999999,"text":"那下個會期"},{"start":12360.779999999999,"end":12363.38,"text":"會請我們新的趙偉"},{"start":12363.42,"end":12365.259999999998,"text":"繼續來排審"},{"start":12365.259999999998,"end":12365.74,"text":"好"},{"start":12393.38,"end":12395.82,"text":"偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第15條"},{"start":12395.82,"end":12397.859999999999,"text":"及第17條條文修正草案"},{"start":12397.859999999999,"end":12399.619999999999,"text":"委員徐富奎等17人"},{"start":12399.619999999999,"end":12401.9,"text":"擬具偏遠地區學校教育發展條例"},{"start":12401.9,"end":12403.58,"text":"第15條條文修正草案"},{"start":12403.58,"end":12405.699999999999,"text":"委員吳立華等20人擬具"},{"start":12405.699999999999,"end":12407.699999999999,"text":"偏遠地區學校教育發展條例"},{"start":12407.699999999999,"end":12409.06,"text":"第12條第15條"},{"start":12409.06,"end":12411.46,"text":"及第17條條文修正草案"},{"start":12411.46,"end":12413.98,"text":"已全部審查完整"},{"start":12413.98,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