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受數配有約定以一方受數配有男方之金子"},{"start":2013.8,"end":2016.76,"text":"與他方受數配有女方之卵子結合"},{"start":2016.76,"end":2020.12,"text":"使各方之女性受數者受胎之情形實"},{"start":2020.12,"end":2025.4799999999998,"text":"人工申請機構指經中央主管機關許可實施人工申請相關義務之醫療機構"},{"start":2026.73,"end":2028.49,"text":"3. 第四條造型證人提案即為"},{"start":2028.49,"end":2031.69,"text":"王奕川等五人所提修正動於修正通過"},{"start":2031.69,"end":2034.73,"text":"如下第四條只取出一方之金子植物"},{"start":2034.73,"end":2039.77,"text":"另一方體內實施之配有或結合關係間之人工申請"},{"start":2039.77,"end":2043.3700000000001,"text":"除第二十一條第三款及其違反之處罰規定外"},{"start":2043.3700000000001,"end":2045.2900000000002,"text":"不適用本法之規定"},{"start":2045.2900000000002,"end":2047.0500000000002,"text":"4. 第五條造型證人提案即為"},{"start":2047.0500000000002,"end":2049.29,"text":"林月琴等十七人提案修正通過"},{"start":2049.29,"end":2050.57,"text":"第五條"},{"start":2050.57,"end":2053.61,"text":"莊主管機關應邀及人工申請醫學倫理法律"},{"start":2053.61,"end":2059.29,"text":"與兒童權益性別平等或其他相關領域之學者專家及學者民間團體代表"},{"start":2060.89,"end":2062.73,"text":"斟酌社會倫理之觀念"},{"start":2062.73,"end":2066.97,"text":"醫學科技之發展公共衛生之維護生育權及平等權之保障"},{"start":2066.97,"end":2068.97,"text":"組成人工申職諮詢會"},{"start":2068.97,"end":2071.6099999999997,"text":"定期檢討及評估本法執行之情形"},{"start":2071.6099999999997,"end":2075.93,"text":"傾向女性委員人數不得少於全體委員人數二分之一"},{"start":2075.93,"end":2078.97,"text":"5. 第六條造型證人提案修正通過如下"},{"start":2078.97,"end":2083.29,"text":"第六條夫妻或女同性雙方符合下列各款情形"},{"start":2083.29,"end":2087.5299999999997,"text":"並通過第八條與第十條鎖定檢查及評估者"},{"start":2087.53,"end":2089.2900000000004,"text":"得接受人工申職"},{"start":2089.2900000000004,"end":2094.3300000000004,"text":"一妻或女同性雙方至少一方能以其子宮懷孕及分娩"},{"start":2094.3300000000004,"end":2096.57,"text":"二夫妻均以下列情形之一"},{"start":2096.57,"end":2099.2900000000004,"text":"一方經診斷罹患不孕症"},{"start":2099.2900000000004,"end":2102.4100000000003,"text":"二一方罹患莊主管機關公告之"},{"start":2102.4100000000003,"end":2107.05,"text":"重大遺傳性疾病經由自然生育顯有生育異常子女之餘"},{"start":2107.05,"end":2109.9300000000003,"text":"三夫妻至少一方具有健康之生殖細胞"},{"start":2109.9300000000003,"end":2113.3700000000003,"text":"無需同日使用第三人捐贈精子及卵子"},{"start":2113.88,"end":2116.44,"text":"女同性雙方至少一方具有健康之卵子"},{"start":2116.44,"end":2119,"text":"無需使用第三人捐贈卵子"},{"start":2119,"end":2121,"text":"單身女性符合下列各款情形"},{"start":2121,"end":2124.12,"text":"並通過第八條與第十條鎖定檢查及評估者"},{"start":2124.12,"end":2126.92,"text":"得接受捐贈精子及人工申職"},{"start":2126.92,"end":2127.96,"text":"一妻或女同性一妻或女同性"},{"start":2127.96,"end":2133.32,"text":"設有戶籍且於失速前五年內每年於我國居住183日以上"},{"start":2133.32,"end":2135.96,"text":"二年滿18歲三具有健康之卵子"},{"start":2135.96,"end":2137.7200000000003,"text":"無需使用第三人捐贈卵子"},{"start":2137.7200000000003,"end":2140.76,"text":"且能以其子宮懷孕及分娩"},{"start":2140.97,"end":2142.73,"text":"六第八條造型正在提案即委"},{"start":2142.73,"end":2144.0099999999998,"text":"擬業勤等三人所提"},{"start":2144.0099999999998,"end":2146.0099999999998,"text":"修正動議修正通過第八條"},{"start":2146.0099999999998,"end":2149.0499999999997,"text":"夫妻女同性雙方或單身女性"},{"start":2149.0499999999997,"end":2152.17,"text":"於接受人工申職前因金莊主管機關指定之"},{"start":2152.17,"end":2155.45,"text":"專業機構以人工申職子女最佳利益"},{"start":2155.45,"end":2157.5299999999997,"text":"審酌一切情狀為評估"},{"start":2158.73,"end":2161.29,"text":"專業機構及其評估人員進行評估時"},{"start":2161.29,"end":2162.81,"text":"應具有性別評論儀式"},{"start":2162.81,"end":2164.81,"text":"並遵守利益迴避原則"},{"start":2164.81,"end":2167.69,"text":"前項評估應製作記錄並保存之"},{"start":2167.69,"end":2170.01,"text":"地項專業機構與其評估人員"},{"start":2170.01,"end":2172.33,"text":"應具備之資格費值指定"},{"start":2172.33,"end":2174.01,"text":"評估之內容方式程序"},{"start":2174.01,"end":2175.85,"text":"與前項評估記錄之製作"},{"start":2175.85,"end":2179.05,"text":"保存方式及其他因遵行事項之辦法"},{"start":2179.05,"end":2180.65,"text":"由莊主管機關定制"},{"start":2181.42,"end":2181.9,"text":"第九條"},{"start":2181.9,"end":2182.94,"text":"召行證人提案為"},{"start":2182.94,"end":2184.06,"text":"年數分等十八人提案"},{"start":2184.06,"end":2184.54,"text":"第六條"},{"start":2184.54,"end":2185.1000000000004,"text":"第八條"},{"start":2185.1000000000004,"end":2186.2200000000003,"text":"及第九條"},{"start":2186.2200000000003,"end":2188.2200000000003,"text":"執意修正通過如下"},{"start":2188.2200000000003,"end":2188.7000000000003,"text":"第九條"},{"start":2188.7000000000003,"end":2190.6200000000003,"text":"醫療機構因申請莊主管機關"},{"start":2190.6200000000003,"end":2192.46,"text":"許可為人工申職機構"},{"start":2192.46,"end":2194.1400000000003,"text":"後使得實施人工申職"},{"start":2194.1400000000003,"end":2195.7400000000002,"text":"接受申職細胞之捐贈"},{"start":2195.7400000000002,"end":2196.78,"text":"儲存或提供"},{"start":2198,"end":2199.76,"text":"醫療機構因申請主管機關"},{"start":2199.76,"end":2202.32,"text":"許可後使得實施以非捐贈為目的"},{"start":2202.32,"end":2204.32,"text":"直升職細胞冷凍儲存及"},{"start":2204.32,"end":2205.52,"text":"提供之行為儲存"},{"start":2205.52,"end":2207.52,"text":"對象因爲十八歲以上之成年人"},{"start":2207.52,"end":2209.76,"text":"但因醫療因素者不在此現"},{"start":2210.48,"end":2211.76,"text":"其二項許可之有效"},{"start":2211.76,"end":2213.84,"text":"期間爲三年期間屆滿"},{"start":2213.84,"end":2215.28,"text":"仍你繼續實施"},{"start":2215.28,"end":2217.28,"text":"前二項行爲者因於屆滿"},{"start":2217.98,"end":2219.6600000000003,"text":"三個月前申請許可"},{"start":2219.6600000000003,"end":2222.06,"text":"其申請許可之條件程序審查"},{"start":2222.06,"end":2223.42,"text":"基準廢止管理"},{"start":2224.98,"end":2227.54,"text":"申職細胞或胚胎儲存之品質管理"},{"start":2227.54,"end":2230.02,"text":"計畫告知同意費用及其他因遵行"},{"start":2230.02,"end":2232.58,"text":"事項之辦法由中央主管機關定制"},{"start":2232.58,"end":2235.22,"text":"中央主管機關對第一項及第二項機構"},{"start":2235.22,"end":2236.42,"text":"應爲定其查核"},{"start":2236.42,"end":2238.18,"text":"並應公布查核結果"},{"start":2238.18,"end":2239.78,"text":"其查核相關作業辦法由"},{"start":2239.78,"end":2241.46,"text":"主管機關定制"},{"start":2241.46,"end":2242.34,"text":"八第十一條"},{"start":2242.34,"end":2244.26,"text":"造型證券體驗修正通過如下"},{"start":2244.26,"end":2246.1,"text":"第十一條捐贈人符合"},{"start":2246.1,"end":2248.26,"text":"下列各款情形者人工申職機構"},{"start":2248.26,"end":2251.22,"text":"使得接受其捐贈申職細胞"},{"start":2251.22,"end":2253.86,"text":"因男性十八歲以上未滿四十歲"},{"start":2253.94,"end":2256.02,"text":"女性十八歲以上未滿四十歲"},{"start":2256.02,"end":2259.7000000000003,"text":"二經下列檢查及評估結果爲適合捐贈"},{"start":2259.7000000000003,"end":2261.7000000000003,"text":"一一般心理及生理狀況"},{"start":2261.7000000000003,"end":2263.86,"text":"二家族使病使包括本人四"},{"start":2263.86,"end":2267.1400000000003,"text":"親等以內血清之遺傳性疾病紀錄"},{"start":2267.1400000000003,"end":2270.58,"text":"三有礙生育健康之遺傳性或傳性疾病"},{"start":2270.58,"end":2273.38,"text":"四其他經中央主管機關公告知事項"},{"start":2273.38,"end":2274.9,"text":"三以無償方式捐贈"},{"start":2274.9,"end":2277.78,"text":"四未曾捐贈或曾捐贈而使用"},{"start":2277.78,"end":2279.7000000000003,"text":"其申職細胞之女性收入者"},{"start":2279.7000000000003,"end":2282.02,"text":"未完成活產且未儲存"},{"start":2282.02,"end":2283.86,"text":"其剩餘之生殖細胞"},{"start":2284.58,"end":2285.38,"text":"前項第二款"},{"start":2285.38,"end":2287.22,"text":"正檢查及評估因製作紀錄"},{"start":2287.22,"end":2289.14,"text":"受素配偶或受素單身女性"},{"start":2289.14,"end":2291.78,"text":"在中央主管機關所訂金額或嫁額內"},{"start":2292.2599999999998,"end":2295.3,"text":"得提供營養費或營養品與捐贈人"},{"start":2295.3,"end":2297.06,"text":"或負擔其必要之檢查"},{"start":2297.06,"end":2300.5,"text":"醫療工時損失及交通費用或提供或負擔"},{"start":2301.22,"end":2303.06,"text":"因爲請人工申職機構"},{"start":2303.06,"end":2304.42,"text":"爲之第一項第四款"},{"start":2304.42,"end":2306.02,"text":"所訂請請人工申職機構"},{"start":2306.02,"end":2307.7,"text":"因向中央主管機關查明後"},{"start":2308.2599999999998,"end":2310.34,"text":"使得接受捐贈九第十二條"},{"start":2310.42,"end":2312.42,"text":"造型正面提案爲零數分等十八人"},{"start":2312.42,"end":2314.1000000000004,"text":"提案及爲零月請等三人"},{"start":2314.1000000000004,"end":2316.26,"text":"所提修正動因修正通過如下"},{"start":2319.3,"end":2320.9,"text":"第十二條人工申職機構"},{"start":2320.9,"end":2322.2200000000003,"text":"接受申職細胞捐贈"},{"start":2322.2200000000003,"end":2325.78,"text":"使因向捐贈人說明施行方式"},{"start":2325.78,"end":2327.7000000000003,"text":"可能發生之並發證及副作用"},{"start":2327.7000000000003,"end":2329.7000000000003,"text":"以及第二十七條至第二九條"},{"start":2329.7000000000003,"end":2331.78,"text":"第三十五條至第四十二條"},{"start":2331.78,"end":2332.9,"text":"規定之相關權利"},{"start":2332.9,"end":2334.5,"text":"義務及醫療風險"},{"start":2334.5,"end":2337.54,"text":"並取得捐贈人瞭解及書面同意時的遺質"},{"start":2338.33,"end":2340.65,"text":"人工申職機構接受申職細胞捐贈"},{"start":2340.65,"end":2342.65,"text":"因製作紀錄並載明下列事項"},{"start":2342.65,"end":2345.13,"text":"以捐贈人之姓名住所或居所"},{"start":2345.74,"end":2347.74,"text":"身份證明文件字號出生"},{"start":2347.74,"end":2348.8599999999997,"text":"年月日身高體重"},{"start":2348.8599999999997,"end":2351.8199999999997,"text":"血型膚色髮色及國籍"},{"start":2351.8199999999997,"end":2353.4199999999996,"text":"二捐贈項目及數量"},{"start":2353.4199999999996,"end":2354.4599999999996,"text":"三捐贈日期"},{"start":2354.4599999999996,"end":2357.2599999999998,"text":"人工申職機構於捐贈人同意後"},{"start":2357.2599999999998,"end":2358.2999999999997,"text":"得以前項紀錄"},{"start":2358.2999999999997,"end":2361.3399999999997,"text":"以並載明捐贈人之姓去"},{"start":2361.3399999999997,"end":2363.66,"text":"姓養或其他不足以識別"},{"start":2363.66,"end":2365.74,"text":"其身份之相關資訊"},{"start":2365.74,"end":2367.2599999999998,"text":"供人工申職子女"},{"start":2367.2599999999998,"end":2368.62,"text":"知悉其身世來源"},{"start":2368.62,"end":2370.9399999999996,"text":"其記載方式內容及保存"},{"start":2370.9399999999996,"end":2372.9399999999996,"text":"由中央主管機關定制"},{"start":2373.08,"end":2375.4,"text":"十第三條召行正體案修正"},{"start":2375.4,"end":2376.68,"text":"通過如下第十三條"},{"start":2376.68,"end":2377.64,"text":"人工申職機構"},{"start":2377.64,"end":2380.12,"text":"對同一捐贈人捐贈之申職細胞"},{"start":2381.01,"end":2383.65,"text":"不得同時或先後提供下列對象使用"},{"start":2385.13,"end":2387.05,"text":"第一二對以上受數配偶"},{"start":2387.05,"end":2389.37,"text":"二二對以上受數單身女性"},{"start":2389.37,"end":2393.13,"text":"三一對受數配偶及一位受數單身女性"},{"start":2393.13,"end":2394.4100000000003,"text":"前項使用申職細胞"},{"start":2394.4100000000003,"end":2396.65,"text":"這女性受數者未完成活產"},{"start":2396.65,"end":2398.17,"text":"且有下列情形之一者"},{"start":2398.74,"end":2400.74,"text":"同一捐贈人捐贈之申職細胞的"},{"start":2400.74,"end":2402.74,"text":"繼續提供其他受數配偶或"},{"start":2402.74,"end":2404.66,"text":"受數單身女性使用"},{"start":2404.66,"end":2406.4199999999996,"text":"亦已放棄實施人工申職"},{"start":2406.4199999999996,"end":2407.2999999999997,"text":"二本人死亡"},{"start":2408.06,"end":2409.18,"text":"三期配偶死亡"},{"start":2409.18,"end":2411.1,"text":"同一捐贈人捐贈之申職細胞"},{"start":2411.1,"end":2413.82,"text":"與提供一位女性受數者成功"},{"start":2413.82,"end":2415.82,"text":"懷孕後應即停止提供使用"},{"start":2415.82,"end":2418.46,"text":"該女性受數者完成活產者"},{"start":2418.46,"end":2420.38,"text":"應及第二十九條規定"},{"start":2420.38,"end":2422.06,"text":"處理同一女性受數者"},{"start":2422.06,"end":2424.14,"text":"與同一治療州期內"},{"start":2424.14,"end":2426.38,"text":"不得植入由不同捐贈人捐贈之"},{"start":2426.38,"end":2428.94,"text":"申職細胞所形成的配胎"},{"start":2428.94,"end":2431.02,"text":"十一保留行政體案第十條"},{"start":2431.02,"end":2433.18,"text":"及對應體案條文"},{"start":2433.18,"end":2434.2999999999997,"text":"二人工申職法"},{"start":2434.2999999999997,"end":2435.42,"text":"就正草案等十六案"},{"start":2435.42,"end":2436.54,"text":"尚未審查完軍令"},{"start":2436.54,"end":2438.46,"text":"並擇其繼續審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":2442.3199999999997,"end":2443.92,"text":"請問委員會上次意識入"},{"start":2443.92,"end":2445.52,"text":"有無錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":2446.74,"end":2449.7,"text":"意識入確定本日會議"},{"start":2449.7,"end":2453.3799999999997,"text":"成為以審查性侵害犯罪防治法"},{"start":2453.3799999999997,"end":2456.1,"text":"部分條文修正草案等十案"},{"start":2456.1,"end":2458.2599999999998,"text":"二審查兒童及少年"},{"start":2458.2599999999998,"end":2460.9799999999996,"text":"性剝削防治條例部分條文"},{"start":2460.9799999999996,"end":2462.74,"text":"修正草案等十七案"},{"start":2462.74,"end":2465.9399999999996,"text":"以上兩案才一併說明及詢答"},{"start":2465.9399999999996,"end":2468.18,"text":"接著介紹在場委員"},{"start":2468.18,"end":2469.62,"text":"蘇清泉委員"},{"start":2473.15,"end":2474.19,"text":"陳昭治委員"},{"start":2475.51,"end":2476.55,"text":"黃正旭委員"},{"start":2478.43,"end":2479.47,"text":"張志仁委員"},{"start":2482.85,"end":2485.25,"text":"接著我們介紹列席官員"},{"start":2485.25,"end":2488.05,"text":"衛生福利部呂建德政務次長"},{"start":2489.7,"end":2492.1,"text":"保護服務司張靜倫副司長"},{"start":2493.72,"end":2496.52,"text":"心理健康師鄭淑欣副市長"},{"start":2497.78,"end":2500.5800000000004,"text":"醫事司卓立平檢認急診"},{"start":2501.65,"end":2505.4100000000003,"text":"食品藥物管理署慈嵐會副署長"},{"start":2507.1,"end":2509.1,"text":"國民健康署羅素英署長"},{"start":2510.81,"end":2513.21,"text":"社會及家庭署劉松彥科長"},{"start":2514.91,"end":2517.47,"text":"司法院刑事廳黃湘盈法官"},{"start":2519.18,"end":2522.7799999999997,"text":"法務部陳臻慧主任檢察官"},{"start":2524.73,"end":2529.85,"text":"內政部警政署防治署徐坤榮副組長"},{"start":2533.66,"end":2535.2599999999998,"text":"鄭氏偉科長"},{"start":2536.06,"end":2537.34,"text":"莊明雄科長"},{"start":2538.79,"end":2542.87,"text":"刑事警察局預防科莊明雄科長"},{"start":2545.29,"end":2550.09,"text":"數位發展部資源管理師陳文良副市長"},{"start":2552.09,"end":2555.4500000000003,"text":"法治處陳明宏專門委員"},{"start":2556.85,"end":2560.77,"text":"數位產業署黃雅萍副署長"},{"start":2562.74,"end":2568.5,"text":"國家通訊傳播委員會網際網路傳播辦公室李佳麟檢認事長"},{"start":2570.08,"end":2574.3199999999997,"text":"教育部學生事務及特殊教育師許家謙副市長"},{"start":2576.1,"end":2579.62,"text":"國民級學前教育署易秀芝副組長"},{"start":2581.38,"end":2584.34,"text":"行政院人事行政總處組"},{"start":2586.21,"end":2587.4900000000002,"text":"人力處"},{"start":2588.89,"end":2590.65,"text":"與易志專門委員"},{"start":2591.81,"end":2596.5299999999997,"text":"勞動部勞動條件及就業評等師顧家榮專門委員"},{"start":2597.65,"end":2599.25,"text":"職業安全衛生署"},{"start":2599.84,"end":2602.7200000000003,"text":"業配節認記證"},{"start":2606.31,"end":2610.95,"text":"現在請提案委員說明提案要止每位委員兩分鐘"},{"start":2612.26,"end":2613.86,"text":"請張志榮委員說明"},{"start":2622.22,"end":2625.1,"text":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早"},{"start":2625.4199999999996,"end":2629.4199999999996,"text":"本席今天提案修正兒童及少年性剝削"},{"start":2629.74,"end":2630.2999999999997,"text":"防治"},{"start":2631.16,"end":2634.44,"text":"拼撥缺條例部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2634.7599999999998,"end":2637.48,"text":"核心在於全面加重刑責"},{"start":2638.12,"end":2640.04,"text":"嚴懲非法持有"},{"start":2640.81,"end":2643.29,"text":"斬斷數位性暴力的產業鏈"},{"start":2643.77,"end":2648.17,"text":"希望說未來可以徹底阻住現行法律的漏洞"},{"start":2648.17,"end":2650.17,"text":"保護兒少的身心安全"},{"start":2650.4900000000002,"end":2652.25,"text":"以人格健全發展"},{"start":2652.57,"end":2657.21,"text":"大家都知道近年來數位科技網路社群迅速發展"},{"start":2657.4500000000003,"end":2660.4900000000002,"text":"連帶兒少性剝削的影像"},{"start":2660.9700000000003,"end":2665.05,"text":"散佈販賣甚至客製化的問題日益猖獗"},{"start":2665.4500000000003,"end":2670.8100000000004,"text":"此類犯罪具備一次受害終身恐懼的嚴重後果"},{"start":2671.21,"end":2675.4500000000003,"text":"對兒少造成極遠的身心靈受創"},{"start":2675.77,"end":2678.4100000000003,"text":"然而現行的法規卻沒有正當理由"},{"start":2678.8900000000003,"end":2681.8500000000004,"text":"對於沒有正當理由持有付費購買"},{"start":2682.09,"end":2685.9300000000003,"text":"甚至製造或散佈兒少性影像的處罰力道"},{"start":2686.59,"end":2688.11,"text":"沒有非常的重"},{"start":2688.11,"end":2691.07,"text":"所以我們今天提出三大修法重點"},{"start":2691.07,"end":2694.75,"text":"第一全面提高刑度的門檻"},{"start":2694.75,"end":2698.9900000000002,"text":"第二加重持有及付費購買的責任"},{"start":2698.9900000000002,"end":2702.67,"text":"第三強化共犯產業鏈的究責"},{"start":2702.67,"end":2707.71,"text":"尤其針對利用兒少性剝削牟利的團體"},{"start":2707.71,"end":2709.7900000000004,"text":"或者是平台推廣業者"},{"start":2709.7900000000004,"end":2711.3100000000004,"text":"我們加重懲罰"},{"start":2711.3100000000004,"end":2715.55,"text":"展現國人對數位性犯罪零容忍的決心"},{"start":2715.9500000000003,"end":2718.75,"text":"最後 兒少是國家的未來"},{"start":2718.75,"end":2723.71,"text":"保護孩子們免於性剝削是全體國人不可退讓的底線"},{"start":2723.71,"end":2728.51,"text":"希望透過本次修法做到健全社會防治網"},{"start":2728.51,"end":2731.8700000000003,"text":"徹底根除兒少性剝削的產業鏈"},{"start":2731.8700000000003,"end":2733.8700000000003,"text":"懇請今天各位委員支持"},{"start":2733.8700000000003,"end":2735.8700000000003,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2735.74,"end":2741.2599999999998,"text":"接下來請衛生福利部呂建德次長病案說明時間10分鐘"},{"start":2750.4900000000002,"end":2753.69,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生"},{"start":2753.69,"end":2754.9700000000003,"text":"大家早安大家好"},{"start":2754.9700000000003,"end":2758.17,"text":"今天大院第11屆第五會期"},{"start":2758.17,"end":2764.4900000000002,"text":"社會福利及衛生環境司法及法治委員會第二次聯席會議審查"},{"start":2764.4900000000002,"end":2768.8100000000004,"text":"性侵害犯罪防治法部分條文修正草案等10案"},{"start":2768.8100000000004,"end":2774.3300000000004,"text":"以及兒童及少年性剝削防治條例部分條文修正草案等17案"},{"start":2774.3300000000004,"end":2777.21,"text":"本部誠邀列席報告深感榮幸"},{"start":2777.21,"end":2779.21,"text":"那麼也請委員不吝指教"},{"start":2779.73,"end":2784.13,"text":"有關委員凝聚性侵害犯罪防治法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2784.13,"end":2786.13,"text":"本部意見綜合如下"},{"start":2786.13,"end":2788.13,"text":"委員岳元芝等19人"},{"start":2788.13,"end":2790.13,"text":"委員黃建豪等23人"},{"start":2790.13,"end":2792.13,"text":"委員魯明哲等18人"},{"start":2792.13,"end":2794.13,"text":"委員黃建豪等23人"},{"start":2794.13,"end":2796.13,"text":"委員王宇明等20人"},{"start":2796.13,"end":2798.13,"text":"建議徵訂"},{"start":2798.5,"end":2804.26,"text":"由中央警政主管機關會同中央主管機關法務主管機關及"},{"start":2804.26,"end":2810.82,"text":"之下市縣市主管機關建立加害人個人資訊分級公開及通知制度"},{"start":2810.82,"end":2814.26,"text":"考量性侵害為刑事案件"},{"start":2814.66,"end":2819.46,"text":"加害人是否再犯或累犯之餘涉及司法機關之認定"},{"start":2819.46,"end":2825.06,"text":"有現行本法第52條已經規定判決有罪確定的加害人"},{"start":2825.65,"end":2828.4500000000003,"text":"台灣常立金同企者"},{"start":2829.01,"end":2833.25,"text":"該管警察機關得將其身份資訊公開"},{"start":2833.25,"end":2837.3300000000004,"text":"因此是否認定類似規範應審慎評估"},{"start":2837.3300000000004,"end":2840.13,"text":"有加害人個人資料公開"},{"start":2840.13,"end":2844.53,"text":"上設少年刑事案件以及揭示的個資"},{"start":2844.53,"end":2847.57,"text":"更生保護及關戶資料建檔及公告"},{"start":2847.57,"end":2849.57,"text":"登記報到及查閱"},{"start":2849.57,"end":2851.57,"text":"社區處理等相關業務"},{"start":2851.57,"end":2853.57,"text":"建議因通盤考量"},{"start":2853.57,"end":2855.57,"text":"第二"},{"start":2855.53,"end":2857.61,"text":"委員"},{"start":2856.61,"end":2858.61,"text":"黃建豪等23人建議"},{"start":2858.61,"end":2860.61,"text":"增訂若公開資訊"},{"start":2860.61,"end":2862.61,"text":"維護公共利益"},{"start":2862.61,"end":2864.61,"text":"或示警潛在受害者"},{"start":2864.61,"end":2866.61,"text":"保障知情權者"},{"start":2866.61,"end":2873.4100000000003,"text":"不受不得報導或記載有被害人知姓名或其他族資"},{"start":2873.96,"end":2876.04,"text":"識別身份資訊限制"},{"start":2876.84,"end":2883.4,"text":"並刪除被害人死亡時由主管機關衡量公共權益之免法規定"},{"start":2883.4,"end":2886.5200000000004,"text":"為免被害人身份資訊公開後"},{"start":2886.5200000000004,"end":2892.0400000000004,"text":"再遭二度傷害以及被害人人身安全侵害疑慮"},{"start":2892.0400000000004,"end":2894.76,"text":"建議是否也再行斟酌"},{"start":2894.76,"end":2896.76,"text":"第三"},{"start":2896.76,"end":2898.76,"text":"委員"},{"start":2898.76,"end":2900.76,"text":"等17人"},{"start":2900.76,"end":2902.76,"text":"建議"},{"start":2902.76,"end":2904.76,"text":"增訂針對零至6歲"},{"start":2904.76,"end":2906.76,"text":"兒童為性侵害犯罪行為者"},{"start":2906.76,"end":2908.76,"text":"經起訴處後"},{"start":2910.65,"end":2912.65,"text":"於一個月內"},{"start":2912.65,"end":2916.65,"text":"將起訴書函送中央社政主管機關及教育主管機關"},{"start":2916.65,"end":2918.65,"text":"於全管系統建檔"},{"start":2918.65,"end":2920.65,"text":"增訂司法機關"},{"start":2920.65,"end":2922.65,"text":"檢查機關通報被害人所屬學校"},{"start":2922.65,"end":2924.65,"text":"僱用機構或家庭"},{"start":2924.65,"end":2926.65,"text":"被告所屬機關"},{"start":2926.65,"end":2928.65,"text":"機關購物之規定"},{"start":2928.65,"end":2934.65,"text":"查家庭暴力及性侵害電子資料庫管理使用辦法"},{"start":2934.65,"end":2936.65,"text":"第四條明訂"},{"start":2936.16,"end":2942.16,"text":"司法院及法務部須提供性侵害犯罪有關判決及相關輔導以及治療紀錄"},{"start":2942.16,"end":2946.16,"text":"本法第11條第一項以及第二項規定"},{"start":2946.16,"end":2950.16,"text":"司法人員在執行職務"},{"start":2950.16,"end":2954.16,"text":"如有疑似性侵害犯罪情事者"},{"start":2954.16,"end":2956.16,"text":"應於24小時內完成通報"},{"start":2956.16,"end":2960.16,"text":"由教育人員任用條例第31條第4項規定"},{"start":2960.16,"end":2964.16,"text":"被告為教育人員或兒少機構人員之性侵害"},{"start":2964.16,"end":2968.16,"text":"刑事案件機構所屬之"},{"start":2968.16,"end":2970.16,"text":"直轄縣市目的事業主管機關"},{"start":2970.16,"end":2974.16,"text":"得於偵查或審判中申請"},{"start":2974.16,"end":2978.16,"text":"司法機關提供案件相關資訊"},{"start":2980.36,"end":2985.36,"text":"因此原是否重複訂定司法機關通報規定"},{"start":2985.36,"end":2988.36,"text":"建議是否也予以在著"},{"start":2988.36,"end":2993.36,"text":"而委員有建議性侵害犯罪案件起訴書資料"},{"start":2993.36,"end":2997.36,"text":"因為涉及司法機關偵查案件資料公開"},{"start":2997.36,"end":3001.36,"text":"或提供是以本部尊重法務部的意見"},{"start":3002.06,"end":3005.06,"text":"第四委員魯明哲等18人建議"},{"start":3005.06,"end":3012.06,"text":"增訂專責單位統籌並整合各機關通報處置及追蹤機制"},{"start":3012.06,"end":3017.06,"text":"查本法第6條已經明定直轄市縣市主管機關"},{"start":3017.06,"end":3023.06,"text":"應設立性侵害防治中心並提供相關處置服務"},{"start":3023.06,"end":3025.06,"text":"那麼本法第5條第1項也明定"},{"start":3025.06,"end":3030.06,"text":"中央主管機關應建立會診統計及管理"},{"start":3030.06,"end":3036.06,"text":"被害人個案資料與加害人身心治療輔導或教育資料"},{"start":3036.06,"end":3041.06,"text":"以及時提供被害人服務及加害人社區監控之用"},{"start":3041.06,"end":3046.06,"text":"因此是否需再重複訂定建議是否也再行斟酌"},{"start":3046.06,"end":3047.06,"text":"第五"},{"start":3048.06,"end":3050.06,"text":"委員曾任前的22人建議"},{"start":3051.66,"end":3059.66,"text":"增訂未滿16歲性侵害犯罪被害人追溯權得志成年起起算20年"},{"start":3059.66,"end":3064.66,"text":"那麼經查中華民國刑法第80條已經增訂"},{"start":3064.66,"end":3066.66,"text":"而上性侵害"},{"start":3067.1,"end":3073.1,"text":"案件被害人滿20歲以前不算不算入追溯權追溯權期間"},{"start":3073.1,"end":3078.1,"text":"並且也已經在115年7月7日經大院三讀通過"},{"start":3078.1,"end":3082.1,"text":"因此是並無需再於本法重複規定"},{"start":3082.1,"end":3083.1,"text":"第六"},{"start":3083.72,"end":3085.72,"text":"委員陳培宇等16人"},{"start":3086.67,"end":3090.67,"text":"委員張雅玲等16人建議參酌詐欺犯罪"},{"start":3091.41,"end":3093.41,"text":"違反法律規定"},{"start":3103.93,"end":3104.93,"text":"行政處分"},{"start":3104.93,"end":3106.93,"text":"擴大限制接取情況"},{"start":3106.93,"end":3109.93,"text":"強化性侵害被害人監控等規定"},{"start":3109.93,"end":3113.93,"text":"考量實務的運作本部競表支持"},{"start":3113.93,"end":3121.93,"text":"而有關多委員凝聚兒童及少年性剝削防治條例部分條文修正草案本部意見"},{"start":3121.93,"end":3122.93,"text":"綜合說明如下"},{"start":3122.93,"end":3124.93,"text":"第一委員陳庭菲等17人"},{"start":3124.93,"end":3129.93,"text":"委員廖先祥等17人建議提高以招募等方法"},{"start":3129.93,"end":3132.93,"text":"使兒童或少年為性交"},{"start":3132.93,"end":3135.93,"text":"猥褻之行為並供人觀覽者"},{"start":3135.93,"end":3141.93,"text":"拍攝製造散佈持有兒少性影像者之刑罰及罰金部分"},{"start":3143.39,"end":3146.39,"text":"市設行事量刑和平行"},{"start":3146.39,"end":3149.39,"text":"因此本部也尊重司法機關意見"},{"start":3149.39,"end":3152.39,"text":"第二委員徐欣瑩等27人"},{"start":3153.04,"end":3156.04,"text":"委員張志倫等18人建議提高"},{"start":3156.04,"end":3157.04,"text":"18歲以上知人"},{"start":3159,"end":3162,"text":"與16歲以上未滿18歲知人"},{"start":3162,"end":3165,"text":"唯有對價性交或猥褻行為"},{"start":3165,"end":3169,"text":"以引誘招募強暴脅迫等方法"},{"start":3169,"end":3176,"text":"使兒童或少年為對價性交或猥褻行為者之刑罰及罰金部分"},{"start":3176,"end":3182,"text":"設與刑罰妨礙性自主罪之刑事量刑和平行"},{"start":3182,"end":3185,"text":"我們也尊重司法機關的意見"},{"start":3185,"end":3187,"text":"第三委員張志倫等18人建議"},{"start":3187,"end":3193,"text":"增訂發起主持操縱或指揮犯罪組織"},{"start":3193,"end":3195,"text":"而犯本條例第32條"},{"start":3195,"end":3200,"text":"以及36條、38條、40條、45條之罪"},{"start":3200,"end":3204,"text":"加重其刑責及罰金規定"},{"start":3204,"end":3207,"text":"因市設組織犯罪防治條例相關規定"},{"start":3207,"end":3210,"text":"我們予以尊重法務部之意見"},{"start":3210,"end":3213,"text":"第四委員蔡其昌等17人"},{"start":3213,"end":3215,"text":"委員黃秀芳等18人"},{"start":3215,"end":3216,"text":"委員羅廷瑋等18人"},{"start":3216,"end":3219,"text":"委員林怡瑾等19人"},{"start":3219,"end":3221,"text":"委員林靜憲等18人"},{"start":3221,"end":3223,"text":"委員邱毅寅等16人"},{"start":3224.61,"end":3226.61,"text":"委員李越勤等21人"},{"start":3226.61,"end":3227.61,"text":"委員王玉明等19人"},{"start":3227.61,"end":3228.61,"text":"委員范雲等16人"},{"start":3228.61,"end":3230.61,"text":"委員陳培宇等16人"},{"start":3230.61,"end":3232.61,"text":"委員翁曉琳等18人"},{"start":3232.61,"end":3234.61,"text":"委員張雅琳等16人"},{"start":3234.61,"end":3235.61,"text":"建議"},{"start":3236.17,"end":3241.17,"text":"增訂兒少性剝削案件被害人滿20歲以前"},{"start":3241.17,"end":3246.17,"text":"不散入追溯權期間之規定本部競表之時"},{"start":3246.17,"end":3252.17,"text":"至有關增訂不適用民法第197條"},{"start":3252.17,"end":3257.17,"text":"第一項因侵權行為所申知損害賠償請求權時效規定"},{"start":3257.17,"end":3260.17,"text":"也予以尊重法務部之意見"},{"start":3261.92,"end":3263.92,"text":"委員林越勤等21人"},{"start":3263.92,"end":3264.92,"text":"委員王玉明等19人"},{"start":3264.92,"end":3266.92,"text":"委員陳培宇等16人"},{"start":3266.92,"end":3267.92,"text":"委員翁曉琳等18人"},{"start":3267.92,"end":3269.92,"text":"委員張雅琳等16人"},{"start":3269.92,"end":3273.92,"text":"建議增訂兒童及少年性剝削案件"},{"start":3273.92,"end":3278.92,"text":"審判不得公開之規定本部競表之時"},{"start":3278.92,"end":3280.92,"text":"第六委員陳培宇等16人"},{"start":3280.92,"end":3281.92,"text":"委員林越勤等16人"},{"start":3281.92,"end":3283.92,"text":"委員張雅琳等16人"},{"start":3283.92,"end":3287.92,"text":"建議增訂網路業者第三人免責權"},{"start":3287.92,"end":3290.92,"text":"被害人有安置必要時"},{"start":3290.92,"end":3293.92,"text":"得交付適當之親屬主管機關"},{"start":3293.92,"end":3296.92,"text":"續以追蹤輔導之被害人情況"},{"start":3296.92,"end":3298.92,"text":"範第36條第二項"},{"start":3298.92,"end":3299.92,"text":"第36條第一項"},{"start":3299.92,"end":3301.92,"text":"以及第二項之未遂犯"},{"start":3301.92,"end":3304.92,"text":"第38條第一項未遂犯"},{"start":3304.92,"end":3305.92,"text":"第40條第一項"},{"start":3305.92,"end":3310.92,"text":"第二項經判決有罪或緩起訴處分確定者"},{"start":3310.92,"end":3312.92,"text":"應接受輔導教育等規定"},{"start":3312.92,"end":3314.92,"text":"本部競表之時"},{"start":3314.92,"end":3317.92,"text":"本部承大院各委員之指教及監督"},{"start":3317.92,"end":3319.92,"text":"在此進制謝陳"},{"start":3319.92,"end":3323.92,"text":"並請各位委員對本部繼續予以支持"},{"start":3326.9,"end":3329.9,"text":"現在開始詢答座以下宣告"},{"start":3329.9,"end":3334.9,"text":"依有關本次會議各項數量資料均列入記錄刊登公報二"},{"start":3334.9,"end":3337.9,"text":"本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘"},{"start":3337.9,"end":3339.9,"text":"列席委員4加1分鐘"},{"start":3339.9,"end":3342.9,"text":"30點半截止發言登記"},{"start":3344.17,"end":3347.17,"text":"委員如有書面質詢請善會前提出"},{"start":3347.17,"end":3349.17,"text":"於起不受理"},{"start":3349.17,"end":3351.17,"text":"暫定10點半休息10分鐘"},{"start":3351.17,"end":3356.17,"text":"沒有尋釐本日不處理臨時提案"},{"start":3356.17,"end":3361.17,"text":"現在請登記第一位委員陳昭之進行詢答"},{"start":3367.05,"end":3368.05,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":3368.05,"end":3369.05,"text":"有請呂次長"},{"start":3369.05,"end":3370.05,"text":"有請呂次"},{"start":3375.6,"end":3376.6,"text":"陳委員早安"},{"start":3376.6,"end":3377.6,"text":"次長早"},{"start":3377.6,"end":3379.6,"text":"次長今日有一些熱門新聞"},{"start":3379.6,"end":3381.6,"text":"有一則到今天都還一直在報導"},{"start":3381.6,"end":3383.6,"text":"就是台灣有一個女藝人"},{"start":3383.6,"end":3386.6,"text":"她因為毀損日本國保而被捕"},{"start":3386.6,"end":3390.6,"text":"日本電視台就直接公布她的姓名跟照片"},{"start":3390.6,"end":3394.6,"text":"台灣民眾我看他們的反應紛紛是叫好"},{"start":3394.6,"end":3400.6,"text":"甚至開始拿台灣對於過去保護性侵犯者來做對比"},{"start":3400.6,"end":3404.6,"text":"所以幾年前就開始有人在提點子平台"},{"start":3404.6,"end":3408.6,"text":"提案要求公布性侵犯者的照片"},{"start":3408.6,"end":3410.6,"text":"那當時衛福部的回答"},{"start":3410.6,"end":3411.6,"text":"回應是這樣的"},{"start":3411.6,"end":3412.6,"text":"在右邊這個地方"},{"start":3412.6,"end":3415.6,"text":"他說可能侵害基本人權"},{"start":3415.6,"end":3418.6,"text":"愉悅的維護社會安全安寧的必要"},{"start":3418.6,"end":3421.6,"text":"次長在日本毀壞古蹟"},{"start":3421.6,"end":3424.6,"text":"姓名照片要全部公開"},{"start":3424.6,"end":3426.6,"text":"在台灣性侵犯"},{"start":3426.6,"end":3429.6,"text":"政府還要幫忙故隱私講人權"},{"start":3429.6,"end":3432.6,"text":"你覺得台灣社會可以接受嗎"},{"start":3433.62,"end":3436.62,"text":"包委員非常感謝委員對這個問題的關心"},{"start":3436.62,"end":3437.62,"text":"我想這個確實"},{"start":3437.62,"end":3441.62,"text":"我想有各國的民情相關的問題"},{"start":3441.62,"end":3444.62,"text":"那我現在先簡單先跟委員回報一下就是說"},{"start":3444.62,"end":3447.62,"text":"我們當初我們現在這個立法其實最主要"},{"start":3447.62,"end":3451.62,"text":"其實並不完全只是這個加害人的問題而已"},{"start":3451.62,"end":3453.62,"text":"而且其實也有那個被害人的問題"},{"start":3453.62,"end":3457.62,"text":"因為這裡面他的整個相關隱私權的一個保障等等"},{"start":3457.62,"end":3458.62,"text":"我想這個"},{"start":3458.62,"end":3461.62,"text":"次長你看被最加害人的部分來說明"},{"start":3461.62,"end":3463.62,"text":"對"},{"start":3464.27,"end":3469.27,"text":"這邊我想我們也會來聽各方意見"},{"start":3469.27,"end":3471.27,"text":"我想這一點我們確實我們可以來"},{"start":3471.27,"end":3474.27,"text":"現在黨醫也同意就公告向往啦"},{"start":3474.66,"end":3478.66,"text":"大家覺得狼一座甚至性騷性侵也都上網啦"},{"start":3478.66,"end":3479.66,"text":"這麼專業的對象"},{"start":3479.66,"end":3481.66,"text":"那今天我們對比嘛"},{"start":3481.66,"end":3484.66,"text":"他在國外被公安這個"},{"start":3485.66,"end":3487.66,"text":"公開他的姓名照片啊"},{"start":3487.66,"end":3491.66,"text":"在台灣更嚴重的性侵犯都在保護"},{"start":3491.66,"end":3493.66,"text":"包委員我能不能簡單回覆一下"},{"start":3493.66,"end":3495.66,"text":"其實我們的一個統計數據"},{"start":3495.66,"end":3499.66,"text":"其實性侵害很多其實事實上是大概是就是熟人所為"},{"start":3499.66,"end":3501.66,"text":"那這裡面會有一個問題"},{"start":3501.66,"end":3503.66,"text":"現在目前一旦公佈的話"},{"start":3503.66,"end":3505.66,"text":"其實我現在就是說"},{"start":3505.66,"end":3507.66,"text":"剛剛說就會有一個連帶的影響"},{"start":3507.66,"end":3510.66,"text":"次長您談的理由我都了解聽過了"},{"start":3510.66,"end":3513.66,"text":"但是很多法案很多做法就是要檢討"},{"start":3513.66,"end":3515.66,"text":"我們就要繼續看"},{"start":3515.66,"end":3518.66,"text":"別的國家怎麼不擔心你同樣的顧慮呢"},{"start":3518.66,"end":3521.66,"text":"那我們來看一下民進黨執政十年"},{"start":3521.66,"end":3522.66,"text":"2016年開始"},{"start":3522.66,"end":3525.66,"text":"性侵通報案件都是大概平均都破萬"},{"start":3525.66,"end":3528.66,"text":"大概兩三年那個八九千大概就是疫情期間"},{"start":3528.66,"end":3530.66,"text":"那個疫情期間通報數較低"},{"start":3530.66,"end":3532.66,"text":"但是我們心裡都有數啊"},{"start":3532.66,"end":3535.66,"text":"性侵案的那個通報數本來就存在很多的黑數"},{"start":3535.66,"end":3536.66,"text":"對沒錯黑數問題"},{"start":3536.66,"end":3538.66,"text":"次長大概也會同意"},{"start":3538.66,"end":3540.66,"text":"那我看到今天排審的這個法案"},{"start":3540.66,"end":3542.66,"text":"法案憂危提出說要公佈"},{"start":3542.66,"end":3544.66,"text":"性侵擬犯的姓名跟照片"},{"start":3544.66,"end":3547.66,"text":"揭露加害者的資訊"},{"start":3547.66,"end":3548.66,"text":"那您到現在"},{"start":3548.66,"end":3552.66,"text":"衛福部到現在還是持反對的意見嗎"},{"start":3552.66,"end":3553.66,"text":"我想要就是"},{"start":3553.66,"end":3555.66,"text":"次長比較明確一點"},{"start":3556.23,"end":3559.23,"text":"我們報告委員我們現在目前區分兩個層次"},{"start":3559.23,"end":3561.23,"text":"第一個就是我剛剛說就是說"},{"start":3561.23,"end":3563.23,"text":"確實還是我們多方評估"},{"start":3563.23,"end":3565.23,"text":"就是說對於公告之後"},{"start":3565.23,"end":3566.23,"text":"公佈之後"},{"start":3566.23,"end":3569.23,"text":"有一些理由可以用十年二十年"},{"start":3569.23,"end":3571.23,"text":"但是還是要檢討啊"},{"start":3571.23,"end":3573.23,"text":"那如果說有另外還有一個就是說"},{"start":3573.23,"end":3575.23,"text":"如果有這一個"},{"start":3575.23,"end":3577.23,"text":"他有明顯高罪犯的這個加害人的話"},{"start":3577.23,"end":3579.23,"text":"那我們這裡面其實"},{"start":3579.23,"end":3580.23,"text":"就是他如果接受輔導"},{"start":3580.23,"end":3581.23,"text":"鑑定評估"},{"start":3581.23,"end":3583.23,"text":"如果有罪犯之虞"},{"start":3583.23,"end":3586.23,"text":"我們事實上也確實可以申請"},{"start":3586.23,"end":3589.23,"text":"法院的裁定加以強制治療跟社區隔離"},{"start":3589.23,"end":3591.23,"text":"我想這個裡面其實是有一些"},{"start":3591.23,"end":3593.23,"text":"次長你的意思說可以檢討對不對"},{"start":3593.23,"end":3594.23,"text":"對沒錯"},{"start":3594.23,"end":3595.23,"text":"那加害人如果說他"},{"start":3595.23,"end":3598.23,"text":"沒有按照規定來強制治療的話"},{"start":3598.23,"end":3600.23,"text":"而且有逃亡或藏匿"},{"start":3600.23,"end":3602.23,"text":"同期刑刑我們警察機關也可以"},{"start":3602.23,"end":3604.23,"text":"就公告他的身份資訊"},{"start":3604.23,"end":3605.23,"text":"因為他如果有逃亡之虞"},{"start":3605.23,"end":3607.23,"text":"我想跟次長繼續討論"},{"start":3607.23,"end":3609.23,"text":"性侵犯被深惡痛絕了"},{"start":3609.23,"end":3610.23,"text":"大概沒有人會同情"},{"start":3610.23,"end":3611.23,"text":"當然當然"},{"start":3611.23,"end":3613.23,"text":"但是台灣已經這個"},{"start":3613.23,"end":3615.23,"text":"被民進黨實質廢死了"},{"start":3615.23,"end":3617.23,"text":"我們台灣就是空有死刑"},{"start":3617.23,"end":3619.23,"text":"但事實上不可能去執行"},{"start":3619.23,"end":3621.23,"text":"以至於很多人想要用"},{"start":3621.23,"end":3623.23,"text":"最近你也聽到公投的這個提案"},{"start":3623.23,"end":3625.23,"text":"以至於很多人想要用"},{"start":3625.23,"end":3628.23,"text":"邊刑來伺候這個性侵犯"},{"start":3628.23,"end":3632.23,"text":"但邊刑被說是不人道違反人權"},{"start":3632.23,"end":3634.23,"text":"那麼請問部長你認為"},{"start":3634.23,"end":3636.23,"text":"化學去世可行嗎"},{"start":3637.17,"end":3639.17,"text":"你看看這張圖表"},{"start":3639.17,"end":3641.17,"text":"就是說你看韓國 美國 歐洲"},{"start":3641.17,"end":3643.17,"text":"都有針對性侵犯的這個"},{"start":3643.17,"end":3647.17,"text":"用化學去世的一個相關的法律"},{"start":3647.17,"end":3648.17,"text":"邊刑本身是處罰"},{"start":3648.17,"end":3650.17,"text":"但化學去世有些國家"},{"start":3650.17,"end":3652.17,"text":"認為它是一種治療"},{"start":3652.17,"end":3653.17,"text":"我想請教次長"},{"start":3653.17,"end":3655.17,"text":"你認為台灣可以討論嗎"},{"start":3655.17,"end":3657.17,"text":"可行嗎"},{"start":3657.17,"end":3658.17,"text":"保安委員 我知道"},{"start":3658.17,"end":3660.17,"text":"現在目前在國外確實"},{"start":3660.17,"end":3662.17,"text":"有一些相關的討論"},{"start":3662.17,"end":3663.17,"text":"那我覺得這裡面"},{"start":3663.17,"end":3664.17,"text":"會有幾個部分"},{"start":3664.17,"end":3665.17,"text":"第一個就是說"},{"start":3665.17,"end":3667.17,"text":"你如果增加化學或物理去世"},{"start":3667.17,"end":3668.17,"text":"邊刑等等這些"},{"start":3668.17,"end":3671.17,"text":"這個其實也不光是本部"},{"start":3671.17,"end":3673.17,"text":"其實這一點會確實牽涉到"},{"start":3673.17,"end":3675.17,"text":"我們國家的刑事政策"},{"start":3675.17,"end":3677.17,"text":"那這裡面我覺得應該"},{"start":3677.17,"end":3680.17,"text":"可能要來多方討論"},{"start":3680.17,"end":3682.17,"text":"那另外還有一個就是說"},{"start":3683.07,"end":3684.07,"text":"按照國外的經驗"},{"start":3684.07,"end":3686.07,"text":"化學去世這個可能只是對"},{"start":3686.07,"end":3688.07,"text":"於顧卓行的戀童症加害人"},{"start":3688.07,"end":3689.07,"text":"比較有效"},{"start":3689.07,"end":3690.07,"text":"可以 次長"},{"start":3690.07,"end":3692.07,"text":"我們可以繼續討論"},{"start":3692.07,"end":3693.07,"text":"我的意思說"},{"start":3693.07,"end":3695.07,"text":"這個生物痛絕的犯刑"},{"start":3695.07,"end":3697.07,"text":"那死刑不可能了"},{"start":3697.07,"end":3698.07,"text":"死刑不可能了"},{"start":3698.07,"end":3699.07,"text":"然後現在就是"},{"start":3699.07,"end":3701.07,"text":"剩下有人要邊刑"},{"start":3701.07,"end":3703.07,"text":"那我認為邊刑可能爭議"},{"start":3703.07,"end":3704.07,"text":"也很大"},{"start":3704.07,"end":3706.07,"text":"就是說你要用這些理由"},{"start":3706.07,"end":3708.07,"text":"那其實前幾年也有民眾"},{"start":3708.07,"end":3711.07,"text":"連署提案性侵犯要化學去世了"},{"start":3711.07,"end":3713.07,"text":"那當時法務部引用聯合國的"},{"start":3713.07,"end":3714.07,"text":"禁止酷刑公約"},{"start":3714.07,"end":3715.07,"text":"在右邊這個地方"},{"start":3715.07,"end":3717.07,"text":"他認為這個"},{"start":3717.07,"end":3719.07,"text":"認為有人權疑慮"},{"start":3719.07,"end":3720.07,"text":"但是有人權"},{"start":3720.07,"end":3723.07,"text":"那為什麼歐美韓國等都在執行"},{"start":3723.07,"end":3725.07,"text":"而且我也覺得不要一天到晚"},{"start":3725.07,"end":3727.07,"text":"拿聯合國的公約來擋"},{"start":3727.07,"end":3729.07,"text":"因為聯合國根本不理台灣"},{"start":3729.07,"end":3730.07,"text":"因為距台灣於門外"},{"start":3730.07,"end":3732.07,"text":"我們一直要引用他的東西"},{"start":3732.07,"end":3734.07,"text":"但事實上其他國家也在做"},{"start":3734.07,"end":3735.07,"text":"可能他們的解釋"},{"start":3735.07,"end":3737.07,"text":"並不認為這是酷刑公約"},{"start":3737.07,"end":3739.07,"text":"另外我想次長你也可能明白"},{"start":3739.07,"end":3741.07,"text":"可能就是說化學去世本身"},{"start":3741.07,"end":3742.07,"text":"是可逆的"},{"start":3742.07,"end":3743.07,"text":"它是可逆的"},{"start":3743.07,"end":3744.07,"text":"reversible"},{"start":3744.07,"end":3746.07,"text":"就是說你把藥停掉之後"},{"start":3746.07,"end":3749.07,"text":"它當然本身可能會壓抑性衝動"},{"start":3749.07,"end":3751.07,"text":"在性能 勃起能力等等"},{"start":3751.07,"end":3754.07,"text":"但是它停藥之後是可以恢復的"},{"start":3754.07,"end":3756.07,"text":"那這個費用甚至那是藥嘛"},{"start":3756.07,"end":3757.07,"text":"荷爾蒙嘛"},{"start":3757.07,"end":3758.07,"text":"你甚至可以要病人這個"},{"start":3758.07,"end":3760.07,"text":"對不起犯人來自費使用"},{"start":3760.07,"end":3762.07,"text":"那法務部也說根據國外警員"},{"start":3762.07,"end":3764.07,"text":"就如你剛剛所回答的"},{"start":3764.07,"end":3765.07,"text":"化學去世"},{"start":3765.07,"end":3768.07,"text":"僅對固著型的戀童症加害人比較有效"},{"start":3768.07,"end":3770.07,"text":"那台灣是不是可以就從這一群"},{"start":3770.07,"end":3774.07,"text":"就是有戀童癖的性侵加害者來試行看看"},{"start":3774.07,"end":3777.07,"text":"那兒童的定義是12歲以下嘛"},{"start":3777.07,"end":3779.07,"text":"請次長看右邊這張圖表"},{"start":3779.07,"end":3782.07,"text":"按照統計每年台灣也很可怕"},{"start":3782.07,"end":3784.07,"text":"也有一千件兒童性侵害"},{"start":3784.07,"end":3787.07,"text":"這個下面最深藍的是6歲以下"},{"start":3787.07,"end":3788.07,"text":"然後還有6到12歲"},{"start":3788.07,"end":3790.07,"text":"那這樣看起來大概是一千件啦"},{"start":3790.07,"end":3792.07,"text":"那是不是請外部跟法務部"},{"start":3792.07,"end":3793.07,"text":"一起來研議"},{"start":3793.07,"end":3794.07,"text":"提出修法"},{"start":3794.07,"end":3796.07,"text":"對這一類型的這個加害人"},{"start":3796.07,"end":3799.07,"text":"進行化學去世的一個治療"},{"start":3799.07,"end":3802.07,"text":"既然法務部也曾經引用說"},{"start":3802.07,"end":3805.07,"text":"根據國外有在執行的經驗"},{"start":3805.07,"end":3806.07,"text":"是對某一群"},{"start":3806.07,"end":3808.07,"text":"尤其說剛剛您提到的"},{"start":3808.07,"end":3812.07,"text":"這個固著型戀童症是相對有效"},{"start":3812.07,"end":3813.07,"text":"但是我所謂的化學去世"},{"start":3813.07,"end":3816.07,"text":"不是說它可以免除其他的部分"},{"start":3816.07,"end":3819.07,"text":"你要加圖形嗎或是其他的治療"},{"start":3819.07,"end":3821.07,"text":"其他形式的治療都不是說"},{"start":3821.07,"end":3823.07,"text":"就是一個來取代所有"},{"start":3823.07,"end":3826.07,"text":"所以我想是請問這個衛福部"},{"start":3826.07,"end":3828.07,"text":"可能可以來考慮嗎"},{"start":3828.07,"end":3831.07,"text":"跟法務部一起來討論這個可能性"},{"start":3831.07,"end":3833.07,"text":"那個報告委員"},{"start":3833.07,"end":3835.07,"text":"我覺得這個任何的所謂性侵害"},{"start":3835.07,"end":3836.07,"text":"這個基本上是"},{"start":3837.61,"end":3839.61,"text":"是法理不容"},{"start":3839.61,"end":3841.61,"text":"那實在是很沒人性"},{"start":3841.61,"end":3842.61,"text":"尤其還殺害的"},{"start":3842.61,"end":3844.61,"text":"性侵加殺害根本不容原諒"},{"start":3844.61,"end":3847.61,"text":"這個是對一個當事人家庭造成"},{"start":3847.61,"end":3849.61,"text":"我覺得這個是天理不容"},{"start":3849.61,"end":3851.61,"text":"但是現在目前這裡面"},{"start":3851.61,"end":3852.61,"text":"剛剛委員提到就是說"},{"start":3852.61,"end":3853.61,"text":"我們現在目前"},{"start":3853.61,"end":3854.61,"text":"我們會很多很多方式"},{"start":3854.61,"end":3856.61,"text":"包括化學去世等這些"},{"start":3856.61,"end":3859.61,"text":"可是因為就像我剛剛也跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":3859.61,"end":3861.61,"text":"這個限制到我們國家的刑事政策"},{"start":3861.61,"end":3863.61,"text":"那這個我們是不是可以允許"},{"start":3863.61,"end":3864.61,"text":"我們"},{"start":3864.61,"end":3865.61,"text":"你們可以考慮"},{"start":3865.61,"end":3866.61,"text":"死刑不成"},{"start":3866.61,"end":3867.61,"text":"邊刑你們可能意見"},{"start":3867.61,"end":3869.61,"text":"說不定意見更大"},{"start":3869.61,"end":3871.61,"text":"然後現在的化學去世是個方法"},{"start":3871.61,"end":3872.61,"text":"可以討論了"},{"start":3872.61,"end":3874.61,"text":"我們要用20年來的理由"},{"start":3874.61,"end":3875.61,"text":"一再的再用"},{"start":3875.61,"end":3876.61,"text":"那用多少年"},{"start":3876.61,"end":3877.61,"text":"就是有些我們"},{"start":3877.61,"end":3881.61,"text":"那事實上輕輕犯也沒有減少"},{"start":3881.61,"end":3883.61,"text":"黑數很多我們都清楚"},{"start":3883.61,"end":3885.61,"text":"可能比想像的更嚴重"},{"start":3885.61,"end":3887.61,"text":"我希望衛福部能夠好好思考"},{"start":3887.61,"end":3889.61,"text":"是不是用增加這個方法"},{"start":3889.61,"end":3890.61,"text":"你也可以拿到治療"},{"start":3890.61,"end":3891.61,"text":"我們是不是也可以允許我們"},{"start":3891.61,"end":3892.61,"text":"很重要"},{"start":3892.61,"end":3893.61,"text":"它是可利的"},{"start":3893.61,"end":3894.61,"text":"現在刑事政策"},{"start":3894.61,"end":3895.61,"text":"刑事政策"},{"start":3895.61,"end":3896.61,"text":"並不是傷害他終身"},{"start":3896.61,"end":3897.61,"text":"是可逆的"},{"start":3897.61,"end":3899.61,"text":"好謝謝次長"},{"start":3899.61,"end":3901.61,"text":"感謝陳導致委員的關心"},{"start":3901.61,"end":3902.61,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3902.53,"end":3904.53,"text":"好謝謝陳導致委員的發言"},{"start":3904.53,"end":3906.53,"text":"也謝謝次長的回應"},{"start":3906.53,"end":3908.53,"text":"下一位請林月芹 趙薇發言"},{"start":3915.28,"end":3916.28,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":3916.28,"end":3917.28,"text":"請司法院的代表"},{"start":3918.17,"end":3919.17,"text":"請司法院的代表"},{"start":3926.27,"end":3928.27,"text":"好 方法更早"},{"start":3928.27,"end":3930.27,"text":"我想性影像犯罪防治"},{"start":3930.27,"end":3932.27,"text":"是需要各部會一起來"},{"start":3932.27,"end":3935.27,"text":"才能夠真正把被害人接住"},{"start":3935.27,"end":3937.27,"text":"那本會其實大概也去安排"},{"start":3937.27,"end":3939.27,"text":"去考察我們的性影像中心"},{"start":3939.27,"end":3942.27,"text":"就是希望能夠把在實務上"},{"start":3942.27,"end":3945.27,"text":"再有沒有斷點能夠銜接起來"},{"start":3945.27,"end":3947.27,"text":"今天質詢也是希望能夠"},{"start":3947.27,"end":3948.27,"text":"各部會的工作"},{"start":3948.27,"end":3951.27,"text":"看看這樣子的這張黃幅網"},{"start":3951.27,"end":3955.27,"text":"到底有沒有真正的運作起來"},{"start":3955.27,"end":3956.27,"text":"好 先問"},{"start":3956.27,"end":3959.27,"text":"我們來看兩個具體的案例"},{"start":3959.27,"end":3962.27,"text":"第一案是被告試圖將手機"},{"start":3962.27,"end":3965.27,"text":"伸入一名女性的群體進行偷拍"},{"start":3965.27,"end":3967.27,"text":"當場就被發現了"},{"start":3967.27,"end":3968.27,"text":"而且被攔阻了"},{"start":3968.27,"end":3970.27,"text":"沒有偷拍成功"},{"start":3970.27,"end":3972.27,"text":"那第二個案例是被告"},{"start":3972.27,"end":3975.27,"text":"將手機伸入一名穿著運動短褲的"},{"start":3975.27,"end":3977.27,"text":"男學生的褲管下方"},{"start":3977.27,"end":3979.27,"text":"可是成功拍攝到一張"},{"start":3979.27,"end":3982.27,"text":"男學生的大腿內側的照片"},{"start":3982.27,"end":3983.27,"text":"這兩個案例同樣都是"},{"start":3983.27,"end":3984.27,"text":"被告心懷不軌"},{"start":3984.27,"end":3985.27,"text":"然後未經同意"},{"start":3985.27,"end":3988.27,"text":"朝被害人的隱私部會進行拍攝"},{"start":3988.27,"end":3991.27,"text":"可是卻這兩個案子的判定"},{"start":3991.27,"end":3992.27,"text":"有點特別的是"},{"start":3992.27,"end":3994.27,"text":"第一個案子被認定為"},{"start":3994.27,"end":3997.27,"text":"與性行為有合理的聯想"},{"start":3997.27,"end":4002.27,"text":"判決妨礙性隱私罪未遂成立"},{"start":4002.27,"end":4004.27,"text":"第二案是一審的法官卻判定說"},{"start":4004.27,"end":4006.27,"text":"因為男學生的短褲"},{"start":4006.27,"end":4009.27,"text":"架圍寬鬆長度接近膝蓋"},{"start":4009.27,"end":4010.27,"text":"判決書上寫說"},{"start":4010.27,"end":4014.27,"text":"在社會通念上不會引起性慾或羞恥"},{"start":4014.27,"end":4017.27,"text":"所以用妨礙秘密罪"},{"start":4017.27,"end":4018.27,"text":"這兩個妨礙秘密罪"},{"start":4018.27,"end":4020.27,"text":"事實上是可以一顆法金"},{"start":4020.27,"end":4022.27,"text":"這兩個都是處三年以下有期徒刑"},{"start":4022.27,"end":4025.27,"text":"可是妨礙秘密罪是可以一顆"},{"start":4025.27,"end":4028.27,"text":"拘役獲得是三十萬以下的罰金"},{"start":4028.27,"end":4030.27,"text":"所以"},{"start":4031.16,"end":4033.16,"text":"要問的是"},{"start":4033.16,"end":4035.16,"text":"刑法上對於性影響的定義是"},{"start":4035.16,"end":4038.16,"text":"客觀上足以引起性慾或羞恥"},{"start":4038.16,"end":4041.16,"text":"這個要件落落在第一線事務上"},{"start":4041.16,"end":4043.16,"text":"究竟是如何認定的"},{"start":4043.16,"end":4045.16,"text":"如果剛剛講這兩個"},{"start":4045.16,"end":4048.16,"text":"兩案的判決非常不相同"},{"start":4052.14,"end":4056.14,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員的提供相關的資訊"},{"start":4056.14,"end":4058.14,"text":"其實確實我們在事務上認定"},{"start":4058.14,"end":4060.14,"text":"關於偷拍的部分的話"},{"start":4060.14,"end":4064.14,"text":"目前事務上也有法院一些相關的見解"},{"start":4064.14,"end":4066.14,"text":"可以供事務學長做參考"},{"start":4066.14,"end":4069.14,"text":"當然主要是我們是針對客觀上來講"},{"start":4069.14,"end":4071.14,"text":"針對一般人針對他這樣的舉動"},{"start":4071.14,"end":4072.14,"text":"是否有構成呢"},{"start":4072.14,"end":4074.14,"text":"在事務上會認為說這部分可能"},{"start":4074.14,"end":4077.14,"text":"有涉及到關於會引起有關性慾"},{"start":4077.14,"end":4079.14,"text":"或是說這個部分有被侵犯"},{"start":4079.14,"end":4081.14,"text":"這關於性隱私的部分"},{"start":4081.14,"end":4083.14,"text":"有被侵犯到的部分"},{"start":4083.14,"end":4085.14,"text":"這邊我們就會比較傾向於"},{"start":4085.14,"end":4087.14,"text":"針對這個部分性影響的部分的"},{"start":4087.14,"end":4089.14,"text":"這個部分的含色"},{"start":4089.14,"end":4091.14,"text":"會比較容易構成"},{"start":4091.14,"end":4094.14,"text":"主要是指客觀上相對來講就是主觀上"},{"start":4094.14,"end":4097.139999999999,"text":"有可能就是會比較去跟行為人主觀上"},{"start":4097.139999999999,"end":4099.139999999999,"text":"他的認知還有就是"},{"start":4099.139999999999,"end":4102.139999999999,"text":"跟一般人這邊來做一個區別"},{"start":4102.139999999999,"end":4105.139999999999,"text":"之所以可能也許個案上會有不同"},{"start":4105.139999999999,"end":4108.139999999999,"text":"可能就要看他個案上所呈現的情形"},{"start":4108.14,"end":4111.14,"text":"那因為這一件的話剛好是剛好"},{"start":4111.14,"end":4113.14,"text":"被害人是不同的性別"},{"start":4113.14,"end":4114.14,"text":"然後可能會聯想到"},{"start":4114.14,"end":4115.14,"text":"你們是不是也有性別的一個"},{"start":4115.14,"end":4116.14,"text":"對就是有請問"},{"start":4116.14,"end":4118.14,"text":"多大程度會影響到"},{"start":4118.14,"end":4122.14,"text":"會受到法官本身的性別偏見的影響"},{"start":4122.14,"end":4124.14,"text":"如果因為性別不同可是我被偷拍"},{"start":4124.14,"end":4127.14,"text":"如果只是一個女性她被偷拍"},{"start":4127.14,"end":4130.14,"text":"我們的大腿的內側是就會覺得是說"},{"start":4130.14,"end":4133.14,"text":"會引起性慾或羞恥嗎"},{"start":4133.14,"end":4135.14,"text":"可是男性的大腿內側就不會嗎"},{"start":4135.14,"end":4137.14,"text":"你們有沒有注意到個案"},{"start":4137.14,"end":4140.14,"text":"兼法律認定的落差嗎"},{"start":4140.14,"end":4142.14,"text":"如果跟法官講"},{"start":4142.14,"end":4145.14,"text":"這是因為性別真的讓我覺得蠻驚訝"},{"start":4145.14,"end":4148.14,"text":"所以我認為判斷是不是性影響"},{"start":4148.14,"end":4151.14,"text":"不應該只看最後拍出來的照片"},{"start":4151.14,"end":4152.14,"text":"夠不夠違憲"},{"start":4152.14,"end":4155.14,"text":"而是要看當下的偷拍的行為"},{"start":4155.14,"end":4157.14,"text":"拍哪裡從什麼角度拍"},{"start":4157.14,"end":4160.14,"text":"為什麼要伸進異物裡邊去拍"},{"start":4160.14,"end":4161.14,"text":"以及整個行為是否"},{"start":4161.14,"end":4163.14,"text":"侵害到被害人的性隱私"},{"start":4163.14,"end":4165.14,"text":"所以我覺得可不可以請"},{"start":4165.14,"end":4167.14,"text":"司法院跟法務部等相關單位"},{"start":4167.14,"end":4169.14,"text":"共同研議"},{"start":4169.14,"end":4171.14,"text":"建立更具體的實務判斷標準"},{"start":4171.14,"end":4173.14,"text":"來提供第一線的人員參考"},{"start":4173.14,"end":4175.14,"text":"是謝謝委員指教"},{"start":4175.14,"end":4176.14,"text":"可能剛剛我沒有講清楚"},{"start":4176.14,"end":4177.14,"text":"其實目前我們實務上的話"},{"start":4177.14,"end":4179.14,"text":"也是針對這個標準會有要求"},{"start":4179.14,"end":4180.14,"text":"就如同剛才委員講的"},{"start":4180.14,"end":4182.14,"text":"我們當然是要看犯罪行為人"},{"start":4182.14,"end":4184.14,"text":"在當下他的犯罪的情節"},{"start":4184.14,"end":4186.14,"text":"是不是就是已經是"},{"start":4186.14,"end":4188.14,"text":"有涉及到被害人的隱私部位"},{"start":4188.14,"end":4191.14,"text":"當然不會區分被害人是男或是女"},{"start":4191.14,"end":4192.14,"text":"那只是剛好這個個案"},{"start":4192.14,"end":4194.14,"text":"會做這兩方的比較看起來"},{"start":4194.14,"end":4195.14,"text":"如是法官"},{"start":4195.14,"end":4197.14,"text":"但新騷擾你只要當事人覺得"},{"start":4197.14,"end":4198.14,"text":"被害人覺得不舒服"},{"start":4198.14,"end":4199.14,"text":"就可報告"},{"start":4199.14,"end":4200.14,"text":"現在是兩個派"},{"start":4200.14,"end":4201.14,"text":"一個沒有成功"},{"start":4201.14,"end":4202.14,"text":"一個成功"},{"start":4202.14,"end":4204.14,"text":"可是都是伸到人家的"},{"start":4204.14,"end":4208.14,"text":"下方去做這樣的一個拍攝的時候"},{"start":4208.14,"end":4212.14,"text":"怎麼認定的落差是這麼的大"},{"start":4212.14,"end":4213.14,"text":"來謝謝法官"},{"start":4213.14,"end":4216.14,"text":"今天請警政署的莊科長"},{"start":4217.14,"end":4220.14,"text":"好請警政署莊科長"},{"start":4221.82,"end":4223.82,"text":"科長好就想請教"},{"start":4223.82,"end":4225.82,"text":"兒少性剝削相關案件"},{"start":4225.82,"end":4227.82,"text":"有專責的兒少性影像的"},{"start":4227.82,"end":4228.82,"text":"專責小隊來處理"},{"start":4228.82,"end":4231.82,"text":"那今天如果今天被害人是成年男性"},{"start":4231.82,"end":4234.82,"text":"遭到偷拍或性影像外流"},{"start":4234.82,"end":4236.82,"text":"這類案件通常會交由哪個單位"},{"start":4236.82,"end":4237.82,"text":"來做處理"},{"start":4237.82,"end":4239.82,"text":"我們的部分基本上是"},{"start":4239.82,"end":4240.82,"text":"回歸到一般的行為"},{"start":4240.82,"end":4242.82,"text":"或者是專責的單位都有在處理"},{"start":4242.82,"end":4244.82,"text":"可是我過去曾協助多位"},{"start":4244.82,"end":4247.82,"text":"遭那個裸聊詐騙的"},{"start":4247.82,"end":4249.82,"text":"男性性影像的受害者"},{"start":4249.82,"end":4250.82,"text":"根據我了解"},{"start":4250.82,"end":4252.82,"text":"實務上成年男性的案件可能會被"},{"start":4252.82,"end":4254.82,"text":"像你剛剛講的分到一般的"},{"start":4254.82,"end":4255.82,"text":"刑事偵查隊"},{"start":4255.82,"end":4256.82,"text":"可是問題來了"},{"start":4256.82,"end":4259.82,"text":"案件由一般偵查隊來承辦"},{"start":4259.82,"end":4262.82,"text":"可是被害人代號跟性影像案件的"},{"start":4262.82,"end":4263.82,"text":"系統權限"},{"start":4263.82,"end":4266.82,"text":"卻可能還要透過我們的"},{"start":4266.82,"end":4267.82,"text":"婦幼單位來處理"},{"start":4267.82,"end":4269.82,"text":"我覺得會權責不輕"},{"start":4269.82,"end":4271.82,"text":"所以我也想請教說"},{"start":4271.82,"end":4272.82,"text":"目前"},{"start":4273.84,"end":4276.84,"text":"警政署對於數位性暴力案件"},{"start":4276.84,"end":4279.84,"text":"第一線員警的績效是怎麼計算的"},{"start":4279.84,"end":4280.84,"text":"哪些工作會被納入"},{"start":4280.84,"end":4281.84,"text":"我先回答委員"},{"start":4281.84,"end":4282.84,"text":"第一個就是說"},{"start":4282.84,"end":4285.84,"text":"我們為什麼會單獨由專責小組來上傳"},{"start":4285.84,"end":4288.84,"text":"是怕有些規定跟那些操作會有不熟悉"},{"start":4288.84,"end":4291.84,"text":"而且我們三家上傳影像都要認證"},{"start":4291.84,"end":4294.84,"text":"要符合司法聯盟認證才能上傳"},{"start":4294.84,"end":4296.84,"text":"不是說任何一個員警都能上傳"},{"start":4296.84,"end":4298.84,"text":"這也是確保影像不要外洩"},{"start":4298.84,"end":4299.84,"text":"那第二部分是說"},{"start":4299.84,"end":4301.84,"text":"你說偵辦的部分事實上"},{"start":4301.84,"end":4304.84,"text":"我們以前也辦過類似的案件"},{"start":4304.84,"end":4306.84,"text":"就是說地方受理管之後"},{"start":4306.84,"end":4308.84,"text":"如果遇到一些例如科技比較"},{"start":4308.84,"end":4309.84,"text":"困境比較高的"},{"start":4309.84,"end":4311.84,"text":"我們會由中央單位例如我們針灸大隊"},{"start":4311.84,"end":4313.84,"text":"電針大隊來做處理"},{"start":4313.84,"end":4315.84,"text":"所以原則上處理案件"},{"start":4315.84,"end":4318.84,"text":"跟所謂的影像上傳是兩個不一樣"},{"start":4318.84,"end":4319.84,"text":"那獎勵的規定"},{"start":4319.84,"end":4321.84,"text":"其實我們在去年的6月14號"},{"start":4321.84,"end":4323.84,"text":"我們署的防治組已經也訂了"},{"start":4323.84,"end":4324.84,"text":"所謂的獎勵規定"},{"start":4324.84,"end":4325.84,"text":"那都有一定的級距"},{"start":4325.84,"end":4327.84,"text":"包含多少被害人"},{"start":4327.84,"end":4328.84,"text":"多少嫌犯"},{"start":4328.84,"end":4330.84,"text":"我們都有最高還可以專門去想到打工"},{"start":4330.84,"end":4332.84,"text":"我為什麼要這樣問"},{"start":4332.84,"end":4333.84,"text":"因為據我所知"},{"start":4333.84,"end":4336.84,"text":"現在警方的績效採計的往往是"},{"start":4336.84,"end":4338.84,"text":"以實際完成比錄"},{"start":4338.84,"end":4343.84,"text":"就是你的比詢的比錄的人數為標準"},{"start":4343.84,"end":4345.84,"text":"這樣的一個制度設計"},{"start":4345.84,"end":4348.84,"text":"完全沒有考量到性暴力受害者因為恥"},{"start":4348.84,"end":4352.84,"text":"因為羞恥害怕或受制於社會眼光"},{"start":4352.84,"end":4354.84,"text":"常不顧現身接受調查特性"},{"start":4354.84,"end":4356.84,"text":"可是對我們來看"},{"start":4356.84,"end":4360.84,"text":"性影像很重要的是趕快要能夠下架"},{"start":4360.84,"end":4362.84,"text":"不要讓性影像再擴散"},{"start":4362.84,"end":4363.84,"text":"所以如果這樣做的話"},{"start":4363.84,"end":4365.84,"text":"就會形成惡性循環"},{"start":4365.84,"end":4369.84,"text":"讓員警缺乏誘因去協助那些越難完成比錄"},{"start":4369.84,"end":4374.84,"text":"卻越需要花時間陪伴辯護的弱勢被害人"},{"start":4374.84,"end":4376.84,"text":"所以我覺得性影像犯罪的處理"},{"start":4376.84,"end":4378.84,"text":"不能只看抓到多少人"},{"start":4378.84,"end":4379.84,"text":"做了多少比錄"},{"start":4379.84,"end":4380.84,"text":"對被害人來講"},{"start":4380.84,"end":4383.84,"text":"真的更重要的是能不能趕快下架"},{"start":4383.84,"end":4384.84,"text":"來阻止擴散"},{"start":4384.84,"end":4386.84,"text":"降低對未來生活的影響"},{"start":4386.84,"end":4387.84,"text":"所以想問說"},{"start":4387.84,"end":4391.84,"text":"你們警政署針對員警的績效的認定"},{"start":4391.84,"end":4394.84,"text":"有沒有針對不同類型案件進行設計"},{"start":4394.84,"end":4398.84,"text":"可否將員警投入大量新力的被害人保護工作"},{"start":4398.84,"end":4399.84,"text":"也納入憑良"},{"start":4399.84,"end":4402.84,"text":"我記得台北市上次會破創意私房"},{"start":4402.84,"end":4405.84,"text":"是因為一對姐妹去報案"},{"start":4405.84,"end":4406.84,"text":"可是妹妹是受害人"},{"start":4406.84,"end":4408.84,"text":"她堅決不要去做"},{"start":4408.84,"end":4409.84,"text":"姐姐一直認為是一個"},{"start":4409.84,"end":4411.84,"text":"她是一個受害狀態"},{"start":4411.84,"end":4413.84,"text":"那就花了很長的時間"},{"start":4413.84,"end":4414.84,"text":"如果說今天"},{"start":4414.84,"end":4416.84,"text":"只是因為要比錄能不能完成"},{"start":4416.84,"end":4417.84,"text":"而作為一個基準的話"},{"start":4417.84,"end":4419.84,"text":"我認為事實上是不切實際"},{"start":4420.56,"end":4422.56,"text":"否則一個員警花了這麼長時間"},{"start":4424.4,"end":4426.4,"text":"勸說好久妹妹才願意"},{"start":4426.4,"end":4428.4,"text":"進行報案的一個動作"},{"start":4428.4,"end":4431.4,"text":"所以我希望你們是不是可以"},{"start":4431.4,"end":4432.4,"text":"針對不同"},{"start":4432.4,"end":4435.4,"text":"有沒有針對不同案件去進行設計"},{"start":4435.4,"end":4437.4,"text":"還是全部通體都一樣"},{"start":4437.4,"end":4439.4,"text":"我們其實要看個案的過程要先"},{"start":4439.4,"end":4440.4,"text":"如果今天這個案子"},{"start":4440.4,"end":4442.4,"text":"其實不需要被害人發動"},{"start":4442.4,"end":4445.4,"text":"我們事實上透過一個檢舉信就可以發動了"},{"start":4445.4,"end":4447.4,"text":"事實上就我了解刑事局發動"},{"start":4447.4,"end":4448.4,"text":"類似創意私房的案子"},{"start":4448.4,"end":4450.4,"text":"並不是依照被害人筆錄在發動"},{"start":4450.4,"end":4451.4,"text":"他可能有很多檢舉"},{"start":4451.4,"end":4453.4,"text":"那是我是說舉例是"},{"start":4453.4,"end":4455.4,"text":"可是實際上當初報案"},{"start":4455.4,"end":4457.4,"text":"是因為他的案子在調查時候才發現"},{"start":4457.4,"end":4459.4,"text":"我說你看他連要進行報案"},{"start":4459.4,"end":4460.4,"text":"都是有點困難"},{"start":4460.4,"end":4462.4,"text":"這個如何我們要了解一下配套"},{"start":4462.4,"end":4464.4,"text":"基本上我們的同仁都會有"},{"start":4464.4,"end":4467.4,"text":"因為我們每個人都會有定期訓練"},{"start":4467.4,"end":4468.4,"text":"這部分我們會加強這一部分"},{"start":4468.4,"end":4470.4,"text":"所以我說回去把這個給我"},{"start":4470.4,"end":4472.4,"text":"一分之一的報告"},{"start":4472.4,"end":4474.4,"text":"為什麼因為我覺得這件事情蠻重要"},{"start":4474.4,"end":4476.4,"text":"甚至我剛剛講成年男性"},{"start":4476.4,"end":4478.4,"text":"如果是成年女性"},{"start":4478.4,"end":4480.4,"text":"不知道你們又會是在婦幼"},{"start":4480.4,"end":4483.4,"text":"還是事實上是一般刑事偵查"},{"start":4483.4,"end":4486.4,"text":"我們基本上婦幼或所謂的少年隊"},{"start":4486.4,"end":4487.4,"text":"沒有分男女"},{"start":4487.4,"end":4489.4,"text":"我們只要符合這個法規的對象"},{"start":4489.4,"end":4490.4,"text":"我們都會偵辦"},{"start":4490.4,"end":4492.4,"text":"都會是在一般那個偵查嗎"},{"start":4492.4,"end":4494.4,"text":"對不見了就是說看他哪裡報案"},{"start":4494.4,"end":4496.4,"text":"那由我們專責單位再去"},{"start":4496.4,"end":4498.4,"text":"把案子來並案做處理"},{"start":4498.4,"end":4500.4,"text":"好再把麻煩我剛剛提的"},{"start":4500.4,"end":4502.4,"text":"就是請你們提供報告給我"},{"start":4502.4,"end":4505.4,"text":"就是能不能未來做不同類型的"},{"start":4505.4,"end":4507.4,"text":"這樣的一個考量設計"},{"start":4507.4,"end":4508.4,"text":"是我們慢慢考量"},{"start":4508.4,"end":4509.4,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4509.4,"end":4513.4,"text":"好接下來請衛福部次長"},{"start":4513.89,"end":4514.89,"text":"請次長"},{"start":4514.89,"end":4516.89,"text":"今天如果一個熱心的民眾"},{"start":4516.89,"end":4517.89,"text":"在網路上看到明顯是"},{"start":4517.89,"end":4520.89,"text":"偷拍未經同意外流的成人性影像"},{"start":4520.89,"end":4523.89,"text":"透過性影像中心處理中心來報案"},{"start":4523.89,"end":4526.89,"text":"通報請問你們第一時間會怎麼處理"},{"start":4526.89,"end":4527.89,"text":"會先收案保存這個線索"},{"start":4527.89,"end":4529.89,"text":"還是一定會先找到被害人"},{"start":4529.89,"end":4532.89,"text":"取得本人申訴才會處理"},{"start":4532.89,"end":4534.89,"text":"包委員我們現在目前大概有兩個機制"},{"start":4534.89,"end":4537.89,"text":"第一個如果說是非告訴乃論的話"},{"start":4537.89,"end":4538.89,"text":"那就不需本人申訴"},{"start":4538.89,"end":4540.89,"text":"第二個但是另外還有一個問題就是說"},{"start":4540.89,"end":4542.89,"text":"我們必須要確認當事人"},{"start":4542.89,"end":4544.89,"text":"他自己本身的意願問題"},{"start":4545.36,"end":4547.36,"text":"因為這裡面如果說"},{"start":4547.36,"end":4549.36,"text":"如果說他有些屬於自願性的話"},{"start":4549.36,"end":4551.36,"text":"那我們"},{"start":4551.36,"end":4552.36,"text":"次長你這樣回答"},{"start":4552.36,"end":4553.36,"text":"因為現在問題是"},{"start":4553.36,"end":4556.36,"text":"民眾還沒有提供網址截圖申報表"},{"start":4556.36,"end":4560.36,"text":"就會先要要求判斷是成人或是兒少"},{"start":4560.36,"end":4561.36,"text":"本人還是第三人"},{"start":4561.36,"end":4563.36,"text":"有沒有當事人授權"},{"start":4563.36,"end":4565.36,"text":"可是如果選了非兒少非本人"},{"start":4565.36,"end":4566.36,"text":"未獲授權"},{"start":4566.36,"end":4568.36,"text":"甚至可能連事證都還沒有留下"},{"start":4568.36,"end":4570.36,"text":"就沒有辦法繼續通報"},{"start":4570.36,"end":4571.36,"text":"可是我一直在講"},{"start":4571.36,"end":4573.36,"text":"影像最重要是趕快下架"},{"start":4573.36,"end":4574.36,"text":"趕快下架"},{"start":4574.36,"end":4576.36,"text":"不要讓受害的人"},{"start":4576.36,"end":4578.36,"text":"他的那個擴散"},{"start":4578.36,"end":4579.36,"text":"所以想問是說"},{"start":4579.36,"end":4583.36,"text":"面對一個可能正在快速擴散的違法的影像"},{"start":4583.36,"end":4586.36,"text":"我們第一步不是應該要確認被害人身份"},{"start":4586.36,"end":4587.36,"text":"不是"},{"start":4587.36,"end":4590.36,"text":"我覺得不應該只是急著要確認被害人身份"},{"start":4590.36,"end":4594.36,"text":"而是要先對性影像做出預防處理"},{"start":4594.36,"end":4596.36,"text":"避免日後造成當事人跟大家傷害"},{"start":4596.36,"end":4598.36,"text":"就不要再讓他擴散下去"},{"start":4598.36,"end":4600.36,"text":"尤其這次我覺得衛福部預告修法"},{"start":4600.36,"end":4603.36,"text":"讓更多數位的性暴力業務"},{"start":4603.36,"end":4605.36,"text":"納入到性影像處理中心"},{"start":4605.36,"end":4608.36,"text":"那是不是先從行政流程開始改善"},{"start":4608.36,"end":4610.36,"text":"不是在你的表單裡面"},{"start":4610.36,"end":4613.36,"text":"一定要去確認這幾個要項"},{"start":4613.36,"end":4614.36,"text":"要兒少、要本人"},{"start":4614.36,"end":4616.36,"text":"還有有沒有獲授權"},{"start":4616.36,"end":4617.36,"text":"如果我是路人甲"},{"start":4617.36,"end":4618.36,"text":"我看他這個東西"},{"start":4618.36,"end":4620.36,"text":"我是不是希望趕快"},{"start":4620.36,"end":4622.36,"text":"我不知道哪一個受害的女性"},{"start":4622.36,"end":4626.36,"text":"所以我路人甲我希望他趕快阻斷"},{"start":4626.36,"end":4628.36,"text":"所以讓通報先進來"},{"start":4628.36,"end":4629.36,"text":"專業判斷往後移"},{"start":4629.36,"end":4632.36,"text":"讓被害人跟或者是協助我們進行性影像"},{"start":4632.36,"end":4634.36,"text":"防治的熱心民眾"},{"start":4634.36,"end":4637.36,"text":"不需要個別系統當中疲於奔命"},{"start":4637.36,"end":4638.36,"text":"我希望你們這邊"},{"start":4638.36,"end":4640.36,"text":"應該要去處理這一塊"},{"start":4640.36,"end":4641.36,"text":"再來我也收到幾位"},{"start":4641.36,"end":4643.36,"text":"未成年受害者的陳情"},{"start":4643.36,"end":4645.36,"text":"被害人因為擔心性影像事件"},{"start":4645.36,"end":4646.36,"text":"在校園曝光"},{"start":4646.36,"end":4648.36,"text":"希望不要在校內諮商"},{"start":4648.36,"end":4650.36,"text":"可是卻被社工要求"},{"start":4650.36,"end":4651.36,"text":"要先走校內輔導"},{"start":4651.36,"end":4654.36,"text":"然後最後只能自費尋求校外協助"},{"start":4654.36,"end":4656.36,"text":"本來政府就應該要去協助他"},{"start":4656.36,"end":4657.36,"text":"可是怎麼會變成說"},{"start":4657.36,"end":4658.36,"text":"你一定要校內"},{"start":4658.36,"end":4660.36,"text":"我就不希望讓別人知道"},{"start":4660.36,"end":4662.36,"text":"而且校內更會讓同學們"},{"start":4662.36,"end":4663.36,"text":"或是師長們知道"},{"start":4663.36,"end":4664.36,"text":"所以想請教"},{"start":4664.36,"end":4667.36,"text":"現行針對未成年性影像受害者的"},{"start":4667.36,"end":4669.36,"text":"輔導流程到底是什麼樣的"},{"start":4669.36,"end":4671.36,"text":"有沒有要求第一線社工"},{"start":4671.36,"end":4674.36,"text":"優先轉介校內諮商資源"},{"start":4674.36,"end":4675.36,"text":"如果硬性要求"},{"start":4675.36,"end":4677.36,"text":"第一線為什麼會出現這樣失誤"},{"start":4677.36,"end":4679.36,"text":"是不是學生沒有相對應的"},{"start":4679.36,"end":4681.36,"text":"心理輔導資源可以用"},{"start":4681.36,"end":4683.36,"text":"OK 我想確實陳如委員"},{"start":4683.36,"end":4684.36,"text":"您所說的"},{"start":4684.36,"end":4685.36,"text":"這個其實一般"},{"start":4685.36,"end":4686.36,"text":"如果說是發生在校內的話"},{"start":4686.36,"end":4687.36,"text":"我們一般"},{"start":4687.36,"end":4689.36,"text":"總之要教育得而決"},{"start":4689.36,"end":4690.36,"text":"我要走校內"},{"start":4690.36,"end":4692.36,"text":"我真的就是要擔心讓人家知道"},{"start":4692.36,"end":4693.36,"text":"我們會遵照"},{"start":4693.36,"end":4694.36,"text":"我們盡量以這個原則"},{"start":4694.36,"end":4695.36,"text":"但是我們"},{"start":4695.36,"end":4697.36,"text":"委員您自己也是社工出身"},{"start":4697.36,"end":4699.36,"text":"這裡面其實我們也會"},{"start":4699.36,"end":4702.36,"text":"就是跟社工這邊"},{"start":4702.36,"end":4704.36,"text":"他的整個評估處遇的一個方式"},{"start":4704.36,"end":4706.36,"text":"師長我只是覺得你們要檢討"},{"start":4706.36,"end":4707.36,"text":"因為無論是前端的通報"},{"start":4707.36,"end":4710.36,"text":"後續的下架或被害人的心理支持"},{"start":4710.36,"end":4711.36,"text":"都應該檢討"},{"start":4711.36,"end":4713.36,"text":"重新檢討我們現行制度"},{"start":4713.36,"end":4716.36,"text":"有沒有不必要的程序門檻"},{"start":4716.36,"end":4719.36,"text":"阻斷了我們對受害人的"},{"start":4719.36,"end":4720.36,"text":"最佳的保障"},{"start":4720.36,"end":4724.36,"text":"這個我真的事實上是很難以接受"},{"start":4724.36,"end":4727.36,"text":"前面談的是新影像發生後的處理"},{"start":4727.36,"end":4728.36,"text":"可是兒少興剝削的案子"},{"start":4728.36,"end":4730.36,"text":"持續攀升"},{"start":4730.36,"end":4732.36,"text":"前端預防同樣重要"},{"start":4732.36,"end":4734.36,"text":"可是接下來我們要"},{"start":4734.36,"end":4736.36,"text":"不好意思 我今天要請教育部"},{"start":4736.36,"end":4738.36,"text":"OK 好 感謝"},{"start":4738.36,"end":4742.36,"text":"因為每次談數位暴力的防治成效"},{"start":4742.36,"end":4745.36,"text":"教育部都會告訴我們辦了幾場講座"},{"start":4745.36,"end":4747.36,"text":"比賽做了多少教材"},{"start":4747.36,"end":4748.36,"text":"可是部長"},{"start":4748.36,"end":4750.36,"text":"那個教育部這邊"},{"start":4750.36,"end":4751.36,"text":"我們的"},{"start":4751.36,"end":4754.36,"text":"請教育部許家謙副市長"},{"start":4757.18,"end":4759.18,"text":"辦的活動不等於宣導有效"},{"start":4759.18,"end":4760.18,"text":"這些教材"},{"start":4760.18,"end":4762.18,"text":"第一線教師到底有沒有使用"},{"start":4762.18,"end":4765.18,"text":"學生接受宣導後對數位性暴力的認知"},{"start":4765.18,"end":4766.18,"text":"辨識能力有沒有提升"},{"start":4766.18,"end":4768.18,"text":"這些宣導比賽究竟如何落地"},{"start":4768.18,"end":4771.18,"text":"變成具體可量化的東西"},{"start":4771.18,"end":4773.18,"text":"可被檢驗的數據成效"},{"start":4773.18,"end":4775.18,"text":"那教育部有沒有實際的評估"},{"start":4776.26,"end":4777.26,"text":"因為我們很常說"},{"start":4777.26,"end":4778.26,"text":"畫一張海報"},{"start":4779.15,"end":4781.15,"text":"然後我們畫比賽"},{"start":4781.15,"end":4782.15,"text":"畫比賽真的就會"},{"start":4782.86,"end":4783.86,"text":"改變我的觀念嗎"},{"start":4784.55,"end":4786.55,"text":"那個比賽的部分"},{"start":4786.55,"end":4788.55,"text":"應該是提高學生的一個興趣"},{"start":4788.55,"end":4790.55,"text":"那至於說他宣導成效的部分"},{"start":4790.55,"end":4792.55,"text":"其實我們有委託那個大學"},{"start":4792.55,"end":4794.55,"text":"來幫我們做相關的調查"},{"start":4794.55,"end":4795.55,"text":"那今天我們"},{"start":4795.55,"end":4797.55,"text":"做了前車和後車調查之後"},{"start":4797.55,"end":4798.55,"text":"我們有發現說"},{"start":4798.55,"end":4801.55,"text":"其實他們針對那個暴力防治的這個"},{"start":4801.55,"end":4803.55,"text":"相關的認知是有提升的"},{"start":4803.55,"end":4804.55,"text":"當然這個還是不夠"},{"start":4804.55,"end":4806.55,"text":"我們未來會再持續的努力"},{"start":4806.55,"end":4808.55,"text":"那我們最近比較新的是"},{"start":4808.55,"end":4809.55,"text":"我們有開發一種"},{"start":4809.55,"end":4810.55,"text":"曾經式的一個"},{"start":4810.55,"end":4812.55,"text":"互動式的遊戲教材"},{"start":4812.55,"end":4814.55,"text":"那這個部分可以讓青少年"},{"start":4814.55,"end":4817.55,"text":"透過遊戲的這樣一個互動的機制之後"},{"start":4817.55,"end":4819.55,"text":"從裡面來學習到說"},{"start":4819.55,"end":4820.55,"text":"面對這樣的一個情境"},{"start":4820.55,"end":4823.55,"text":"要怎麼樣去尋得求助的管道"},{"start":4823.55,"end":4825.55,"text":"因為英國、澳洲都有針對"},{"start":4825.55,"end":4828.55,"text":"耳哨在面對數位性暴力的行為模式"},{"start":4828.55,"end":4831.55,"text":"認知情況進行來定期追蹤"},{"start":4831.55,"end":4833.55,"text":"然後也能夠去掌握"},{"start":4833.55,"end":4836.55,"text":"目前孩子們在網路的使用經驗"},{"start":4836.55,"end":4837.55,"text":"為什麼我要這樣講"},{"start":4837.55,"end":4838.55,"text":"甚至我"},{"start":4840.34,"end":4843.34,"text":"想了解教育部到底有沒有從民間"},{"start":4843.34,"end":4845.34,"text":"或者是社政單位那邊"},{"start":4845.34,"end":4848.34,"text":"知道說現在孩子這些"},{"start":4848.34,"end":4851.34,"text":"為什麼會有被性剝削的狀況"},{"start":4851.34,"end":4853.34,"text":"能不能知道真實的案例"},{"start":4853.34,"end":4855.34,"text":"從案例裡面再回推說"},{"start":4855.34,"end":4857.34,"text":"我要怎麼去防治"},{"start":4857.34,"end":4859.34,"text":"如果你都不知道真實的狀況"},{"start":4859.34,"end":4861.34,"text":"就像我們講被詐騙"},{"start":4861.34,"end":4863.34,"text":"那用什麼手法詐騙"},{"start":4863.34,"end":4864.34,"text":"那你如果都不知道這些"},{"start":4864.34,"end":4865.34,"text":"詐騙的手法的時候"},{"start":4865.34,"end":4867.34,"text":"你沒有辦法去防範"},{"start":4867.34,"end":4868.34,"text":"所以我不知道說"},{"start":4868.34,"end":4869.34,"text":"如果剛剛提到說"},{"start":4869.34,"end":4872.34,"text":"你們有定期調查你們的成效"},{"start":4872.34,"end":4874.34,"text":"我希望提供給我看為什麼"},{"start":4874.34,"end":4876.34,"text":"也要問的是你們調查結果"},{"start":4876.34,"end":4879.34,"text":"到底有沒有去調整你們的宣導真正"},{"start":4879.34,"end":4880.34,"text":"因為為什麼我這樣提"},{"start":4880.34,"end":4884.34,"text":"我過去在推所謂的安全教育"},{"start":4884.34,"end":4886.34,"text":"常常就看教育部的很多方法"},{"start":4886.34,"end":4889.34,"text":"不是什麼交通安全拔河比賽"},{"start":4889.34,"end":4891.34,"text":"就交通安全跳繩比賽"},{"start":4891.34,"end":4893.34,"text":"我在想說這些東西"},{"start":4893.34,"end":4895.34,"text":"到底能不能改變交通安全的認知"},{"start":4895.34,"end":4896.34,"text":"一樣的像這樣子"},{"start":4896.34,"end":4898.34,"text":"如果你不知道姓剝削的案例的話"},{"start":4898.34,"end":4901.34,"text":"你怎麼去回推說你要怎麼去防治"},{"start":4901.34,"end":4905.34,"text":"所以也請你們把這些相關的你們做法"},{"start":4905.34,"end":4906.34,"text":"怎麼調整"},{"start":4906.34,"end":4910.34,"text":"然後一個月內給我們辦公室相關的報告"},{"start":4910.34,"end":4911.34,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":4911.34,"end":4913.34,"text":"那委員有建議針對案例的部分"},{"start":4913.34,"end":4916.34,"text":"來轉化成相關的宣導教材的部分"},{"start":4916.34,"end":4919.34,"text":"這個部分我們回去也會再進行一個研議"},{"start":4919.34,"end":4921.34,"text":"那相關的資料我們再提供給委員"},{"start":4921.34,"end":4922.34,"text":"再麻煩教育部謝謝"},{"start":4924.19,"end":4927.19,"text":"好謝謝玉琴召委的諮詢"},{"start":4927.19,"end":4930.19,"text":"也謝謝各級官員的回答"},{"start":4930.19,"end":4932.19,"text":"下一位請陳建輝委員發言"},{"start":4938.69,"end":4939.69,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4939.69,"end":4941.69,"text":"想請呂次長"},{"start":4941.69,"end":4944.69,"text":"還有我們的新建司副市長"},{"start":4945.27,"end":4947.27,"text":"好有請次長跟市長"},{"start":4948.05,"end":4950.05,"text":"陳委員早安"},{"start":4950.05,"end":4952.05,"text":"這邊我想問因為之前呢"},{"start":4952.05,"end":4954.05,"text":"我們不管是時部長"},{"start":4954.05,"end":4956.05,"text":"或者是卓榮泰院長"},{"start":4956.05,"end":4959.05,"text":"他們在不同的場合都有特別強調"},{"start":4959.05,"end":4961.05,"text":"因為健保總額明年破兆"},{"start":4961.05,"end":4963.05,"text":"所以他們會在加碼"},{"start":4963.05,"end":4967.05,"text":"尤其是這個心理支持心理諮商的方面"},{"start":4967.05,"end":4972.05,"text":"那我們是說預算希望可以擴增到4.29億元"},{"start":4972.05,"end":4974.05,"text":"可是關於加碼的細節"},{"start":4974.05,"end":4976.05,"text":"我仔細的去看一下他們的發言"},{"start":4976.05,"end":4977.05,"text":"都沒有提到"},{"start":4977.05,"end":4979.05,"text":"可以請次長或是副市長"},{"start":4979.05,"end":4981.05,"text":"在這邊稍微講解一下嗎"},{"start":4981.05,"end":4982.05,"text":"好我是不是這部份先請"},{"start":4984.94,"end":4986.94,"text":"這邊跟委員做一個報告"},{"start":4986.94,"end":4989.94,"text":"那因為我們的這個15歲到45歲"},{"start":4989.94,"end":4992.94,"text":"青壯世代的心理健康支持的方案"},{"start":4992.94,"end":4997.94,"text":"其實我們從113年的8月1號上路之後"},{"start":4997.94,"end":4999.94,"text":"其實一直都有相當多的國人"},{"start":4999.94,"end":5001.94,"text":"來使用這部份的資源"},{"start":5001.94,"end":5005.94,"text":"那我們從今年的這個1月到7月為止"},{"start":5005.94,"end":5009.94,"text":"其實已經有超過5萬人來使用我們的方案"},{"start":5009.94,"end":5012.94,"text":"那我們在明年有編列比較多的經費"},{"start":5012.94,"end":5015.94,"text":"也是考量到說使用者的確是比我們"},{"start":5015.94,"end":5018.94,"text":"以我們今年來看的話"},{"start":5018.94,"end":5020.94,"text":"其實使用者會超過我們今年預估的人數"},{"start":5020.94,"end":5022.94,"text":"所以我們在明年的部份"},{"start":5022.94,"end":5024.94,"text":"我們有做經費的一些增加"},{"start":5024.94,"end":5027.94,"text":"好所以是因為人數"},{"start":5027.94,"end":5030.94,"text":"但我們也接到非常非常多的家長"},{"start":5030.94,"end":5034.94,"text":"或者是老師校園等等跟我們反應"},{"start":5034.94,"end":5038.94,"text":"這邊也請次長還有副市長看一下數據"},{"start":5038.94,"end":5040.94,"text":"現在有很多第一線的"},{"start":5040.94,"end":5043.94,"text":"比如說身心科的醫師發現說"},{"start":5043.94,"end":5045.94,"text":"13到15歲的求診顯著的增加"},{"start":5045.94,"end":5047.94,"text":"增加了47%"},{"start":5047.94,"end":5050.94,"text":"再來14歲以下的自殺通報"},{"start":5050.94,"end":5054.94,"text":"在15年間過去15年間成長了12倍"},{"start":5054.94,"end":5057.94,"text":"以及這個身心的門診裡面"},{"start":5057.94,"end":5061.94,"text":"他們發現像國小生診斷出憂鬱症的佔比"},{"start":5061.94,"end":5063.94,"text":"佔了10%"},{"start":5063.94,"end":5066.94,"text":"還有一個比較傷心的數據是"},{"start":5066.94,"end":5068.94,"text":"自殺在過去連續兩年"},{"start":5068.94,"end":5071.94,"text":"列為0到17歲的第五大死因"},{"start":5071.94,"end":5073.94,"text":"已經兩年了"},{"start":5073.94,"end":5077.94,"text":"因此我們也會想要在這邊跟官員建議"},{"start":5077.94,"end":5079.94,"text":"既然預算你們要增加"},{"start":5079.94,"end":5081.94,"text":"但具體的細節你們是預期"},{"start":5081.94,"end":5083.94,"text":"使用的人數會變多"},{"start":5083.94,"end":5087.94,"text":"你們會考慮把這個年紀再往下延伸嗎"},{"start":5087.94,"end":5089.94,"text":"非常感謝陳委員對這個問題的關心"},{"start":5089.94,"end":5093.94,"text":"其實我昨天行政院也有代表本部出席"},{"start":5093.94,"end":5096.94,"text":"那個兒少的委員會"},{"start":5096.94,"end":5098.94,"text":"有兒少確實就提出這個問題"},{"start":5098.94,"end":5100.94,"text":"我想委員也長期關心這個問題"},{"start":5100.94,"end":5102.94,"text":"主要跟網路成癮"},{"start":5102.94,"end":5106.94,"text":"還有他們所導致的網路上的這種霸凌"},{"start":5106.94,"end":5108.94,"text":"還有校園的霸凌問題"},{"start":5108.94,"end":5109.94,"text":"這個裡面會相關"},{"start":5109.94,"end":5111.94,"text":"所以確實像陳委員剛剛所說的"},{"start":5111.94,"end":5113.94,"text":"這個身心症這些"},{"start":5113.94,"end":5115.94,"text":"還有類似像自殺的議題"},{"start":5115.94,"end":5118.94,"text":"我想這個確實我們值得來關心"},{"start":5118.94,"end":5120.94,"text":"那我們是不是可以"},{"start":5120.94,"end":5122.94,"text":"我知道委員現在具體建議"},{"start":5122.94,"end":5124.94,"text":"是不是向下"},{"start":5124.94,"end":5127.94,"text":"這個部分我們是不是回去"},{"start":5127.94,"end":5129.94,"text":"我們再研議看看"},{"start":5129.94,"end":5130.94,"text":"因為這裡面也牽涉到"},{"start":5130.94,"end":5133.94,"text":"主要校園的問題是跟教育部那邊"},{"start":5133.94,"end":5137.94,"text":"我們那邊也有學生輔導那邊"},{"start":5137.94,"end":5139.94,"text":"我想可能需要來做一個整合"},{"start":5139.94,"end":5140.94,"text":"我先講幾個點"},{"start":5140.94,"end":5143.94,"text":"因為您昨天也有跟兒少委員會開會"},{"start":5143.94,"end":5144.94,"text":"現在當然兒少全法"},{"start":5144.94,"end":5147.94,"text":"他是以12歲作為一個少年起點"},{"start":5147.94,"end":5150.94,"text":"他會在國中的這個階段"},{"start":5150.94,"end":5153.94,"text":"可能突然感受到課業的壓力增加"},{"start":5153.94,"end":5156.94,"text":"所以可能加上你剛講的網路或是霸凌"},{"start":5156.94,"end":5160.94,"text":"所以多重的這個壓力之下"},{"start":5160.94,"end":5163.94,"text":"所以他們會變得比較容易"},{"start":5163.94,"end":5165.94,"text":"會有這樣子身心的狀況"},{"start":5165.94,"end":5168.94,"text":"那後來我也去找了2025年"},{"start":5168.94,"end":5171.94,"text":"在行政院有個青年諮詢委員會"},{"start":5171.94,"end":5173.94,"text":"他其實就曾經跟你們提案說"},{"start":5173.94,"end":5175.94,"text":"他希望可以下修到12歲"},{"start":5175.94,"end":5178.94,"text":"並且希望常態化而且制度化"},{"start":5178.94,"end":5181.94,"text":"可是衛福部跟教育部當時的回應是說"},{"start":5181.94,"end":5185.94,"text":"你們希望要提升教職員跟學府人員的事能"},{"start":5185.94,"end":5187.94,"text":"然後你們希望可以建立一個"},{"start":5187.94,"end":5189.94,"text":"社區精神醫療的綠色通道"},{"start":5189.94,"end":5191.94,"text":"可以直接做轉介"},{"start":5191.94,"end":5194.94,"text":"可是我實際去詢問那個狀況"},{"start":5194.94,"end":5196.94,"text":"第一當然你們會希望提升"},{"start":5196.94,"end":5198.94,"text":"教職員跟學府人員的事能"},{"start":5198.94,"end":5202.94,"text":"可是最近你們過去一個月"},{"start":5202.94,"end":5203.94,"text":"有很多新聞指出"},{"start":5203.94,"end":5206.94,"text":"我們面臨到最大的教師黃"},{"start":5206.94,"end":5208.94,"text":"現在教師的缺口很大"},{"start":5208.94,"end":5210.94,"text":"然後已經快要開學了"},{"start":5210.94,"end":5211.94,"text":"找不到代課老師的比例"},{"start":5211.94,"end":5213.94,"text":"大概高達七成"},{"start":5213.94,"end":5215.94,"text":"因此在這麼少的人數之下"},{"start":5215.94,"end":5217.94,"text":"當然他們也想要提升他們的事能"},{"start":5217.94,"end":5221.94,"text":"可是他們難免必須還要再分擔其他人的工作"},{"start":5221.94,"end":5223.94,"text":"這是第一個他們沒辦法做到的"},{"start":5223.94,"end":5224.94,"text":"那第二呢"},{"start":5224.94,"end":5226.94,"text":"有一些小朋友他們會說"},{"start":5226.94,"end":5230.94,"text":"他們當然是不想要讓學校知道"},{"start":5230.94,"end":5232.94,"text":"也就是他們如果在學校"},{"start":5232.94,"end":5234.94,"text":"去透過去轉介"},{"start":5234.94,"end":5238.94,"text":"那他們在校園裡面會不敢開口"},{"start":5238.94,"end":5240.94,"text":"所以他遇到的問題是"},{"start":5240.94,"end":5242.94,"text":"他的問題也許沒有嚴重到"},{"start":5242.94,"end":5244.94,"text":"一定要到身心科門診去"},{"start":5244.94,"end":5246.94,"text":"他就是一些生學壓力"},{"start":5246.94,"end":5248.94,"text":"家庭的衝突"},{"start":5248.94,"end":5249.94,"text":"同學吵架"},{"start":5249.94,"end":5252.94,"text":"或者是這些同儕之間的壓力而已"},{"start":5253.83,"end":5255.83,"text":"他會希望比較"},{"start":5255.83,"end":5256.83,"text":"他可以自己去找"},{"start":5256.83,"end":5259.83,"text":"就像剛剛副市長提到的這種"},{"start":5259.83,"end":5260.83,"text":"心理支持方案"},{"start":5260.83,"end":5261.83,"text":"他就比較自由"},{"start":5261.83,"end":5264.83,"text":"他可以不需要老師同學知道"},{"start":5264.83,"end":5266.83,"text":"所以我們也先要一些數據"},{"start":5266.83,"end":5267.83,"text":"因為副市長"},{"start":5267.83,"end":5269.83,"text":"看要不要簡單的講一下"},{"start":5269.83,"end":5270.83,"text":"你們從執行到現在"},{"start":5270.83,"end":5273.83,"text":"每一個年齡層的使用的狀況如何"},{"start":5273.83,"end":5276.83,"text":"那他們來的原因是怎麼分佈的"},{"start":5276.83,"end":5278.83,"text":"還有你最後呢"},{"start":5278.83,"end":5279.83,"text":"你在這個心理支持裡面"},{"start":5279.83,"end":5280.83,"text":"找到高風險"},{"start":5280.83,"end":5283.83,"text":"成功被轉介出去的比例是多少"},{"start":5283.83,"end":5285.83,"text":"OK 我先簡單回答三個重點"},{"start":5285.83,"end":5286.83,"text":"第一個其實這個方案"},{"start":5286.83,"end":5288.83,"text":"確實陳副委員剛剛說的"},{"start":5288.83,"end":5290.83,"text":"其實他本來是15到30歲"},{"start":5290.83,"end":5291.83,"text":"那因為成效相當好"},{"start":5291.83,"end":5293.83,"text":"所以向上提升到45"},{"start":5293.83,"end":5294.83,"text":"那這裡面其實他有兩"},{"start":5294.83,"end":5297.83,"text":"他的作用主要是做為早篩"},{"start":5297.83,"end":5298.83,"text":"是early screening"},{"start":5298.83,"end":5300.83,"text":"所以我在問轉介率"},{"start":5300.83,"end":5302.83,"text":"對 那轉介率我等一下請副市長"},{"start":5302.83,"end":5303.83,"text":"那另外第二點"},{"start":5303.83,"end":5305.83,"text":"現在目前我要跟委員回報"},{"start":5305.83,"end":5306.83,"text":"現在就是說"},{"start":5306.83,"end":5307.83,"text":"這裡面簽到兩"},{"start":5307.83,"end":5309.83,"text":"因為他的定位是在early screening"},{"start":5309.83,"end":5311.83,"text":"可是現在目前所說的12到14歲"},{"start":5311.83,"end":5314.83,"text":"他的問題點可能跟一般"},{"start":5314.83,"end":5316.83,"text":"這個可能有一些不一樣"},{"start":5316.83,"end":5317.83,"text":"所以這個能不能"},{"start":5317.83,"end":5318.83,"text":"所以我剛剛說就是說"},{"start":5318.83,"end":5319.83,"text":"這個會去"},{"start":5319.83,"end":5320.83,"text":"現在我們跟教育部那邊"},{"start":5320.83,"end":5321.83,"text":"學府中心那邊的這個"},{"start":5321.83,"end":5322.83,"text":"我懂 但是有的家長"},{"start":5322.83,"end":5325.83,"text":"他剛好一個超過15歲"},{"start":5325.83,"end":5327.83,"text":"一個不到15歲"},{"start":5327.83,"end":5328.83,"text":"所以他會認為說"},{"start":5328.83,"end":5330.83,"text":"他遇到相同的問題"},{"start":5330.83,"end":5331.83,"text":"可是卻沒有辦法"},{"start":5331.83,"end":5334.83,"text":"用政府提供性支持去協助小孩"},{"start":5334.83,"end":5335.83,"text":"OK 好 謝謝 謝委"},{"start":5335.83,"end":5337.83,"text":"我們是不是請副市長"},{"start":5337.83,"end":5339.83,"text":"謝謝委員的提問"},{"start":5339.83,"end":5341.83,"text":"那我大概從三個面向來回答委員"},{"start":5341.83,"end":5343.83,"text":"那第一個就是說"},{"start":5343.83,"end":5344.83,"text":"其實我們的"},{"start":5344.83,"end":5346.83,"text":"我們衛福部跟教育部"},{"start":5346.83,"end":5349.83,"text":"其實我們兩個部會的次長"},{"start":5349.83,"end":5350.83,"text":"我們都會定期針對"},{"start":5350.83,"end":5352.83,"text":"兒少的心理健康的議題"},{"start":5352.83,"end":5353.83,"text":"來召開一些"},{"start":5353.83,"end":5356.83,"text":"就是會有一個交流的一個平台在"},{"start":5356.83,"end":5358.83,"text":"那針對這個15歲以下"},{"start":5358.83,"end":5360.83,"text":"就是不在我們的這個方案的"},{"start":5360.83,"end":5362.83,"text":"年齡區間的15歲以下的兒少"},{"start":5362.83,"end":5365.83,"text":"那當時兩個部會的一個共識就是說"},{"start":5365.83,"end":5368.83,"text":"因為學生畢竟這個生活的場域"},{"start":5368.83,"end":5370.83,"text":"很長的一段時間是在校園"},{"start":5370.83,"end":5372.83,"text":"所以有關於這個15歲以下的"},{"start":5372.83,"end":5375.83,"text":"這個兒少的這個心理支持輔導"},{"start":5375.83,"end":5377.83,"text":"等是由我們學校的三級輔導的機制"},{"start":5377.83,"end":5378.83,"text":"來做一個處理"},{"start":5378.83,"end":5380.83,"text":"那如果是高風險"},{"start":5380.83,"end":5381.83,"text":"需要進一步的醫療的話"},{"start":5381.83,"end":5383.83,"text":"就透過轉介到我們社區的"},{"start":5383.83,"end":5385.83,"text":"這個醫療的體系來進行"},{"start":5385.83,"end":5387.83,"text":"進一步的這個評估跟治療"},{"start":5387.83,"end":5388.83,"text":"這是第一個"},{"start":5388.83,"end":5391.83,"text":"第二個有關於這個15到45歲的方案"},{"start":5391.83,"end":5393.83,"text":"剛剛委員有特別提到"},{"start":5393.83,"end":5395.83,"text":"那不在這個年齡區間的"},{"start":5395.83,"end":5397.83,"text":"他又不想在學校接受輔導的話"},{"start":5397.83,"end":5399.83,"text":"其實衛福部這邊也有去布建"},{"start":5399.83,"end":5402.83,"text":"我們校園以外的心理健康支持的資源"},{"start":5402.83,"end":5404.83,"text":"除了我們的方案之外"},{"start":5404.83,"end":5407.83,"text":"我們還有1925 24小時的這個免付費的"},{"start":5407.83,"end":5409.83,"text":"這個安心專線"},{"start":5409.83,"end":5412.83,"text":"以及我們也是有文字協談的服務"},{"start":5412.83,"end":5413.83,"text":"當然這個也是不用付錢的"},{"start":5413.83,"end":5416.83,"text":"那再來的話就是我們的這個"},{"start":5416.83,"end":5418.83,"text":"各個縣市都有社區心理衛生中心"},{"start":5418.83,"end":5420.83,"text":"裡面也有心理師"},{"start":5420.83,"end":5422.83,"text":"可以來提供這個服務"},{"start":5422.83,"end":5423.83,"text":"只要跟我們的"},{"start":5423.83,"end":5425.83,"text":"新聞中心來做預約就可以了"},{"start":5425.83,"end":5427.83,"text":"還有一個更重要的是"},{"start":5427.83,"end":5428.83,"text":"我們的地方政府"},{"start":5428.83,"end":5430.83,"text":"我們在全國不見有396個"},{"start":5430.83,"end":5433.83,"text":"社區心理諮商的服務的據點"},{"start":5433.83,"end":5434.83,"text":"那其實地方政府"},{"start":5434.83,"end":5436.83,"text":"除了我們中央的三次免費之外"},{"start":5436.83,"end":5439.83,"text":"其實地方政府有利用他們地方的財政"},{"start":5439.83,"end":5442.83,"text":"也來提供優惠或者是免付費的"},{"start":5442.83,"end":5444.83,"text":"心理諮商的服務"},{"start":5444.83,"end":5446.83,"text":"等一下我再發一個公文"},{"start":5446.83,"end":5448.83,"text":"希望跟你要到這些詳細的"},{"start":5448.83,"end":5450.83,"text":"你已經執行多久"},{"start":5450.83,"end":5452.83,"text":"然後你得到的數據為何"},{"start":5452.83,"end":5454.83,"text":"那另外回去研擬一下"},{"start":5454.83,"end":5456.83,"text":"是不是針對往下延伸"},{"start":5456.83,"end":5457.83,"text":"去做一個事辦計畫"},{"start":5457.83,"end":5459.83,"text":"一個月內可以給我報告嗎"},{"start":5459.83,"end":5460.83,"text":"可以沒問題"},{"start":5460.83,"end":5463.83,"text":"好再來副市長您請回"},{"start":5463.83,"end":5465.83,"text":"這邊就是要問次長"},{"start":5465.83,"end":5466.83,"text":"OK"},{"start":5466.83,"end":5469.83,"text":"這個是我們對於社工"},{"start":5469.83,"end":5471.83,"text":"也是有一個很大的缺口"},{"start":5471.83,"end":5472.83,"text":"並且流失率很高"},{"start":5472.83,"end":5475.83,"text":"對那這邊是我查到的"},{"start":5475.83,"end":5476.83,"text":"這審計部的報告"},{"start":5476.83,"end":5478.83,"text":"跟衛福部提供的報告"},{"start":5478.83,"end":5480.83,"text":"數據似乎有點對不起來"},{"start":5480.83,"end":5482.83,"text":"因為審計部報告的數據是寫到說"},{"start":5482.83,"end":5483.83,"text":"一四年到年底"},{"start":5483.83,"end":5486.83,"text":"禁用人數為6423"},{"start":5486.83,"end":5488.83,"text":"可是衛福部這邊的說明是"},{"start":5488.83,"end":5492.83,"text":"一四年年底的禁用人數為6496"},{"start":5492.83,"end":5495.83,"text":"請問這個差距的原因為何"},{"start":5495.83,"end":5497.83,"text":"包委員這個你"},{"start":5500.3,"end":5502.3,"text":"這個是不是可以允許我回去"},{"start":5502.3,"end":5504.3,"text":"我再跟那個我們的辦公室那邊"},{"start":5504.3,"end":5505.3,"text":"我再來再確認"},{"start":5505.3,"end":5507.3,"text":"那你會再給我們一份說明"},{"start":5507.3,"end":5508.3,"text":"對"},{"start":5508.3,"end":5511.3,"text":"好第二個是在我們審預算的時候"},{"start":5511.3,"end":5514.3,"text":"非常非常多委員不分黨派"},{"start":5514.3,"end":5515.3,"text":"都在關心"},{"start":5515.3,"end":5518.3,"text":"6月17號那時候我們在審你們的預算"},{"start":5518.3,"end":5520.3,"text":"我們很多會委員就說"},{"start":5520.3,"end":5522.3,"text":"要提升社工的職績費"},{"start":5522.3,"end":5525.3,"text":"備勤費緊急出勤費"},{"start":5525.3,"end":5528.3,"text":"那您的回答是說要送行政院審議"},{"start":5528.3,"end":5531.3,"text":"可是到昨天我去追行政院那邊"},{"start":5531.3,"end":5534.3,"text":"還是沒有收到你們說要送到行政院"},{"start":5534.3,"end":5536.3,"text":"去審議的這個東西"},{"start":5536.3,"end":5539.3,"text":"還有7月25你們回覆給這個"},{"start":5539.3,"end":5542.3,"text":"我們衛環委員內容也有講到說"},{"start":5542.3,"end":5545.3,"text":"你們會去修改風險加急會去提高"},{"start":5545.3,"end":5548.3,"text":"但風險加急當然現在社工覺得很重要"},{"start":5548.3,"end":5550.3,"text":"因為從109年至今"},{"start":5550.3,"end":5551.3,"text":"6年都沒有調整過"},{"start":5551.3,"end":5554.3,"text":"所以包括你自己講的風險加急"},{"start":5554.3,"end":5557.3,"text":"還有我們在審預算的時候講的職績費"},{"start":5557.3,"end":5558.3,"text":"出勤費 備勤費"},{"start":5558.3,"end":5561.3,"text":"到底什麼時候才會送到行政院"},{"start":5561.3,"end":5563.3,"text":"OK 非常感謝委員對這個問題的關心"},{"start":5563.3,"end":5565.3,"text":"確實我們社工同仁在第一線"},{"start":5565.3,"end":5566.3,"text":"他這個非常辛苦"},{"start":5566.3,"end":5568.3,"text":"那我跟委員簡單兩個回覆"},{"start":5568.3,"end":5570.3,"text":"第一個您剛剛所說的這一個"},{"start":5570.3,"end":5572.3,"text":"有關於風險加急的部分"},{"start":5572.3,"end":5573.3,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":5573.3,"end":5575.3,"text":"我之前我已經主持我們相關的"},{"start":5575.3,"end":5577.3,"text":"我先跟委員透露一下"},{"start":5577.3,"end":5578.3,"text":"我們會分成四級"},{"start":5578.3,"end":5581.3,"text":"第一個最高的當然就是所謂的兒少"},{"start":5581.3,"end":5583.3,"text":"跟這一個保護性社工"},{"start":5583.3,"end":5586.3,"text":"第二級是我們的這一個脆弱家庭裡面"},{"start":5586.3,"end":5588.3,"text":"跟兒少有關 這是第二級"},{"start":5588.3,"end":5590.3,"text":"第三個就是脆弱性"},{"start":5590.3,"end":5591.3,"text":"還有另外一班"},{"start":5591.3,"end":5593.3,"text":"我們會分四級來做這個風險加急"},{"start":5593.3,"end":5595.3,"text":"那這一個這是第一點"},{"start":5595.3,"end":5597.3,"text":"另外第二點您剛剛所說的職績費的部分"},{"start":5597.3,"end":5599.3,"text":"其實我們現在目前都已經簽辦"},{"start":5599.3,"end":5601.3,"text":"我們現在目前已經送到那個部長"},{"start":5601.3,"end":5602.3,"text":"部長室那邊"},{"start":5602.3,"end":5604.3,"text":"我們會趕快 部長那邊一旦簽合之後"},{"start":5604.3,"end":5605.3,"text":"我們趕快就會送給"},{"start":5605.3,"end":5608.3,"text":"所以大概一個月內可以送到行政院"},{"start":5608.3,"end":5611.3,"text":"我想這個 我們會趕快"},{"start":5611.3,"end":5612.3,"text":"一個月內"},{"start":5612.3,"end":5613.3,"text":"一個月內可以"},{"start":5614.41,"end":5615.41,"text":"我們會趕快"},{"start":5615.41,"end":5617.41,"text":"因為我知道就是說現在目前"},{"start":5617.41,"end":5620.41,"text":"現在公務人員那邊現在也普遍調薪"},{"start":5620.41,"end":5621.41,"text":"那這個裡面"},{"start":5621.41,"end":5623.41,"text":"除了這個調薪的部分之外"},{"start":5623.41,"end":5624.41,"text":"另外我們認為風險加急"},{"start":5624.41,"end":5625.41,"text":"這是非常重要"},{"start":5625.41,"end":5627.41,"text":"那我們會趕快來加速"},{"start":5627.41,"end":5629.41,"text":"再來這個也是審計部點出你們的問題"},{"start":5629.41,"end":5630.41,"text":"沒錯"},{"start":5630.41,"end":5631.41,"text":"審計部的報告說"},{"start":5631.41,"end":5633.41,"text":"你們現在的久任制度無法使人留下來"},{"start":5633.41,"end":5635.41,"text":"他有舉了一個例子"},{"start":5635.41,"end":5640.41,"text":"他說他核定了137個資深保護性社工人數"},{"start":5640.41,"end":5642.41,"text":"可是實際上所有縣市加起來"},{"start":5642.41,"end":5643.41,"text":"只有僅用32人"},{"start":5643.41,"end":5646.41,"text":"僅佔核定的補助人數23%"},{"start":5646.41,"end":5648.41,"text":"這一點您知道嗎"},{"start":5648.41,"end":5650.41,"text":"那你知道原因為何嗎"},{"start":5650.41,"end":5651.41,"text":"OK好 這個我是不是請"},{"start":5651.41,"end":5653.41,"text":"部長來簡單回應"},{"start":5653.41,"end":5654.41,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":5654.41,"end":5655.41,"text":"因為資深社工"},{"start":5655.41,"end":5657.41,"text":"其實他會有一些條件上的限制"},{"start":5657.41,"end":5658.41,"text":"對"},{"start":5658.41,"end":5660.41,"text":"那可是你已經核定"},{"start":5660.41,"end":5662.41,"text":"你給他這麼多的人數核定"},{"start":5662.41,"end":5663.41,"text":"是"},{"start":5663.41,"end":5664.41,"text":"可是你的限制"},{"start":5664.41,"end":5665.41,"text":"他有一個比例"},{"start":5665.41,"end":5667.41,"text":"你的限制是不是應該要修改一下"},{"start":5667.41,"end":5669.41,"text":"對 我們回去再來做一個討論"},{"start":5669.41,"end":5670.41,"text":"我們回去會"},{"start":5670.41,"end":5674.41,"text":"那現在保護性社工流動率也高達17.5%"},{"start":5674.41,"end":5677.41,"text":"你在7月29講到風險加急的"},{"start":5677.41,"end":5680.41,"text":"同一篇回文裡面有提到說"},{"start":5680.41,"end":5682.41,"text":"你們會去研議社工年資接觸"},{"start":5682.41,"end":5684.41,"text":"和社工年資接觸"},{"start":5684.41,"end":5687.41,"text":"對 那這個你們什麼時候也會送出"},{"start":5687.41,"end":5690.41,"text":"這個也是在跟我們剛剛說的"},{"start":5690.41,"end":5693.41,"text":"就是那個跟風險加急那個"},{"start":5693.41,"end":5694.41,"text":"風險加急的部分"},{"start":5694.41,"end":5695.41,"text":"一起"},{"start":5695.41,"end":5697.41,"text":"而且我們會整個那個接觸"},{"start":5697.41,"end":5698.41,"text":"我跟委員報告來"},{"start":5698.41,"end":5700.41,"text":"本來是那個7階"},{"start":5700.41,"end":5701.41,"text":"我們現在會double到15階"},{"start":5701.41,"end":5704.41,"text":"好 我希望不要再看到你們開了一個"},{"start":5704.41,"end":5705.41,"text":"很大的核定人數"},{"start":5705.41,"end":5707.41,"text":"結果最後可以符合的人很少"},{"start":5707.41,"end":5708.41,"text":"只有23%"},{"start":5708.41,"end":5709.41,"text":"了解了解"},{"start":5709.41,"end":5711.41,"text":"好 最後一個比較重要的"},{"start":5711.41,"end":5713.41,"text":"是剛有提到說"},{"start":5713.41,"end":5716.41,"text":"這個院長 部長他們在外面就是說"},{"start":5716.41,"end":5717.41,"text":"現在獨居的長者"},{"start":5717.41,"end":5720.41,"text":"大概衛福部這邊的數據是70萬"},{"start":5720.41,"end":5721.41,"text":"對 沒錯"},{"start":5721.41,"end":5724.41,"text":"不過你們已經列冊的快要7萬"},{"start":5724.41,"end":5725.41,"text":"不過你看我們去"},{"start":5725.41,"end":5729.41,"text":"我們去幫他裝緊急救援裝置的覆蓋率"},{"start":5729.41,"end":5731.41,"text":"從112 113 114"},{"start":5731.41,"end":5733.41,"text":"緩慢的上升"},{"start":5733.41,"end":5735.41,"text":"每次每年就是1 2%的上升"},{"start":5735.41,"end":5738.41,"text":"最新數據是28.76"},{"start":5738.41,"end":5740.41,"text":"這個是列冊裡面的"},{"start":5740.41,"end":5743.41,"text":"只有28.76他裝好了"},{"start":5743.41,"end":5746.41,"text":"如果你是以整體你們公布的數據"},{"start":5746.41,"end":5747.41,"text":"70萬人來看的話"},{"start":5747.41,"end":5749.41,"text":"只有2.84"},{"start":5749.41,"end":5750.41,"text":"了解"},{"start":5750.41,"end":5751.41,"text":"那你滿意這個數據嗎"},{"start":5751.41,"end":5753.41,"text":"包委員兩個回覆"},{"start":5753.41,"end":5754.41,"text":"第一個"},{"start":5754.41,"end":5756.41,"text":"其實我們現在目前的這個方案"},{"start":5756.41,"end":5757.41,"text":"也感謝大院的一個支持"},{"start":5757.41,"end":5759.41,"text":"是從今年才開始實施"},{"start":5759.41,"end":5761.41,"text":"那你現在目前所說的這是過去"},{"start":5761.41,"end":5763.41,"text":"我也承認過去只有7萬"},{"start":5763.41,"end":5764.41,"text":"這顯然低估"},{"start":5764.41,"end":5765.41,"text":"所以這是第一點"},{"start":5765.41,"end":5766.41,"text":"所以正因為這樣"},{"start":5766.41,"end":5767.41,"text":"所以我們趕快來做通盤"},{"start":5767.41,"end":5769.41,"text":"第二點我們現在目前"},{"start":5769.41,"end":5770.41,"text":"其實包委員"},{"start":5770.41,"end":5772.41,"text":"我們現在目前跟獨老這邊"},{"start":5772.41,"end":5775.41,"text":"也要尊重獨老自己本身的意願"},{"start":5775.41,"end":5776.41,"text":"我們當然希望"},{"start":5776.41,"end":5778.41,"text":"就是他真的有那個風險的話"},{"start":5778.41,"end":5780.41,"text":"我們希望你能裝"},{"start":5780.41,"end":5781.41,"text":"但是如果我有人報告"},{"start":5781.41,"end":5783.41,"text":"我們的同仁去"},{"start":5785.68,"end":5786.68,"text":"他就比較不願意"},{"start":5786.68,"end":5787.68,"text":"他沒有這個需求"},{"start":5787.68,"end":5789.68,"text":"對 意思是說他就不愛了"},{"start":5790.47,"end":5791.47,"text":"所以這個"},{"start":5791.97,"end":5793.97,"text":"我們要尊重當事人"},{"start":5793.97,"end":5794.97,"text":"他自己本身的意願"},{"start":5794.97,"end":5796.97,"text":"因為我知道你們現在訪查"},{"start":5796.97,"end":5798.97,"text":"風險分級跟裝機"},{"start":5798.97,"end":5800.97,"text":"有可能是不一樣的時間去的"},{"start":5800.97,"end":5801.97,"text":"對 沒錯"},{"start":5801.97,"end":5802.97,"text":"那你要不要評估一下"},{"start":5802.97,"end":5804.97,"text":"是不是可以同時"},{"start":5804.97,"end":5805.97,"text":"既然你去訪查"},{"start":5805.97,"end":5807.97,"text":"就一次把所有事情做好"},{"start":5807.97,"end":5809.97,"text":"還有未來你現在"},{"start":5809.97,"end":5812.97,"text":"你也覺得這個7萬嚴重低估了"},{"start":5812.97,"end":5815.97,"text":"那是不是幫自己設一個KPI"},{"start":5815.97,"end":5817.97,"text":"我們希望一個月也可以看到"},{"start":5817.97,"end":5819.97,"text":"你要幫自己設定什麼KPI"},{"start":5819.97,"end":5820.97,"text":"好"},{"start":5820.97,"end":5821.97,"text":"一年兩年三年"},{"start":5821.97,"end":5823.97,"text":"你多久以內要幫他們裝置完"},{"start":5823.97,"end":5825.97,"text":"包委員我能回覆三個數據"},{"start":5825.97,"end":5826.97,"text":"第一個就是現在目前"},{"start":5826.97,"end":5829.97,"text":"我們按照獨老的這個戶口"},{"start":5829.97,"end":5830.97,"text":"是117萬戶"},{"start":5830.97,"end":5831.97,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":5831.97,"end":5832.97,"text":"第二個數據"},{"start":5832.97,"end":5833.97,"text":"第二個我們現在目前"},{"start":5833.97,"end":5834.97,"text":"認為這裡面"},{"start":5834.97,"end":5835.97,"text":"我們會做一個"},{"start":5835.97,"end":5836.97,"text":"他有需要會做一個整個"},{"start":5836.97,"end":5838.97,"text":"general的一個survey是70萬"},{"start":5838.97,"end":5839.97,"text":"但是我們估出來"},{"start":5839.97,"end":5841.97,"text":"按照過去的歷史的一個"},{"start":5841.97,"end":5842.97,"text":"我們認為"},{"start":5842.97,"end":5843.97,"text":"剛剛說7萬是低估"},{"start":5843.97,"end":5845.97,"text":"不一定每個人都要被survey"},{"start":5845.97,"end":5846.97,"text":"那我們認為就是說"},{"start":5846.97,"end":5847.97,"text":"這裡面可能有需要關懷"},{"start":5847.97,"end":5848.97,"text":"是35萬"},{"start":5848.97,"end":5849.97,"text":"是35"},{"start":5849.97,"end":5850.97,"text":"所以我們自己的KPI是35"},{"start":5850.97,"end":5851.97,"text":"但是35裡面"},{"start":5851.97,"end":5852.97,"text":"還有區分"},{"start":5852.97,"end":5854.97,"text":"這一個低中高"},{"start":5854.97,"end":5855.97,"text":"還有極高"},{"start":5855.97,"end":5857.97,"text":"這四級的level"},{"start":5857.97,"end":5858.97,"text":"真的有需要的"},{"start":5858.97,"end":5860.97,"text":"其實事實上是那個"},{"start":5860.97,"end":5861.97,"text":"是Extreme"},{"start":5861.97,"end":5863.97,"text":"那個大概幾萬"},{"start":5864.5,"end":5865.5,"text":"那個部分"},{"start":5865.5,"end":5866.5,"text":"我們現在目前就是說"},{"start":5866.5,"end":5867.5,"text":"現在目前正在"},{"start":5867.5,"end":5870.5,"text":"我們還在那個調查當中"},{"start":5872.11,"end":5873.11,"text":"我估計10萬"},{"start":5875.78,"end":5878.78,"text":"好那我們就再跟你"},{"start":5878.78,"end":5879.78,"text":"會後要一個報告"},{"start":5879.78,"end":5880.78,"text":"可以沒問題"},{"start":5880.78,"end":5881.78,"text":"不過我先跟委員報告"},{"start":5881.78,"end":5882.78,"text":"因為我們現在目前"},{"start":5882.78,"end":5883.78,"text":"這個也才剛啟動"},{"start":5883.78,"end":5884.78,"text":"所以我們現在目前"},{"start":5884.78,"end":5886.78,"text":"要從那邊去撈出來"},{"start":5886.78,"end":5889.78,"text":"然後我會給委員一個報告"},{"start":5889.78,"end":5890.78,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5890.78,"end":5891.78,"text":"好謝謝次長"},{"start":5891.78,"end":5892.78,"text":"感謝陳委員的一個關心"},{"start":5892.78,"end":5893.78,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5895.03,"end":5897.03,"text":"謝謝陳金輝委員發言"},{"start":5897.03,"end":5899.03,"text":"接下來請邱振軍委員發言"},{"start":5907.7,"end":5908.7,"text":"主席好"},{"start":5908.7,"end":5909.7,"text":"我們一樣請次長"},{"start":5910.57,"end":5911.57,"text":"有請呂次長"},{"start":5916.36,"end":5917.36,"text":"市長好"},{"start":5917.36,"end":5918.36,"text":"我想請問一下"},{"start":5918.36,"end":5920.36,"text":"聘請移工的家庭雇主"},{"start":5920.36,"end":5922.36,"text":"遇到這個移工失聯或懷孕"},{"start":5922.36,"end":5925.36,"text":"產生的照顧斷層"},{"start":5925.36,"end":5926.36,"text":"目前是由你們喘息"},{"start":5926.36,"end":5930.36,"text":"跟短期替代照顧服務的"},{"start":5930.36,"end":5931.36,"text":"服務吧"},{"start":5931.36,"end":5933.36,"text":"那當勞動部的這個配套"},{"start":5933.36,"end":5934.36,"text":"對嗎"},{"start":5934.36,"end":5935.36,"text":"對沒錯"},{"start":5935.36,"end":5936.36,"text":"這個案子是由"},{"start":5936.36,"end":5937.36,"text":"這個案子是由我們"},{"start":5937.36,"end":5938.36,"text":"跟勞動部兩邊"},{"start":5938.36,"end":5939.36,"text":"來共同合作"},{"start":5939.36,"end":5940.36,"text":"因為今年5月"},{"start":5940.36,"end":5942.36,"text":"我們洪生漢部長有說"},{"start":5942.36,"end":5943.36,"text":"勞動部正跟衛福部"},{"start":5943.36,"end":5945.36,"text":"勞動部正跟衛福部密集的研議"},{"start":5945.36,"end":5948.36,"text":"重症家庭的照護補助方案"},{"start":5948.36,"end":5950.36,"text":"6月我也問過他"},{"start":5950.36,"end":5951.36,"text":"他表示已經密切"},{"start":5951.36,"end":5953.36,"text":"跟衛福部進行討論跟爭取"},{"start":5953.36,"end":5957.36,"text":"要盡快整合跨部會的會議"},{"start":5957.36,"end":5958.36,"text":"那提出相關的做法"},{"start":5958.36,"end":5960.36,"text":"那從5月到現在"},{"start":5960.36,"end":5962.36,"text":"你們兩個部會都針對這個"},{"start":5962.36,"end":5964.36,"text":"重症家庭補助補位方案"},{"start":5964.36,"end":5965.36,"text":"總共開了幾次會"},{"start":5965.36,"end":5966.36,"text":"包委員"},{"start":5966.36,"end":5971.36,"text":"我跟另外那個李建宏次長"},{"start":5971.36,"end":5972.36,"text":"我們大概已經開過"},{"start":5972.36,"end":5973.36,"text":"至少"},{"start":5974.54,"end":5975.54,"text":"至少5次"},{"start":5975.54,"end":5977.54,"text":"那有沒有什麼結論"},{"start":5977.54,"end":5980.54,"text":"包委員我們現在目前幾個結論"},{"start":5980.54,"end":5981.54,"text":"第一個就是說"},{"start":5981.54,"end":5982.54,"text":"陳委員剛剛說的"},{"start":5982.54,"end":5984.54,"text":"我們現在目前會先"},{"start":5984.54,"end":5985.54,"text":"就是說您剛剛所說的"},{"start":5985.54,"end":5988.54,"text":"這一個這個家庭"},{"start":5988.54,"end":5989.54,"text":"那我們現在目前優先"},{"start":5989.54,"end":5991.54,"text":"先從CMS裡面7到8"},{"start":5991.54,"end":5993.54,"text":"這是屬於所謂重症的部分"},{"start":5993.54,"end":5994.54,"text":"那我們現在目前估出來"},{"start":5994.54,"end":5995.54,"text":"目前有符合這一個"},{"start":5995.54,"end":5997.54,"text":"大約大概11萬"},{"start":5997.54,"end":5998.54,"text":"這是第一個數據"},{"start":5998.54,"end":5999.54,"text":"另外第二個就是說"},{"start":5999.54,"end":6001.54,"text":"我們現在目前會針對"},{"start":6001.54,"end":6003.54,"text":"他們這邊的一個"},{"start":6003.54,"end":6004.54,"text":"的一個喘息的部分"},{"start":6004.54,"end":6006.54,"text":"之前他會分兩段"},{"start":6006.54,"end":6007.54,"text":"一般通常他申請的部分"},{"start":6007.54,"end":6009.54,"text":"那方案什麼時候會出來"},{"start":6009.54,"end":6010.54,"text":"整個具體的方案"},{"start":6010.54,"end":6011.54,"text":"什麼時候"},{"start":6011.54,"end":6012.54,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":6012.54,"end":6014.54,"text":"因為這裡面會簽到就是說"},{"start":6015.99,"end":6016.99,"text":"其實還有一些是"},{"start":6019.67,"end":6020.67,"text":"我們會有一些"},{"start":6020.67,"end":6021.67,"text":"然後我們會有一個多月"},{"start":6021.67,"end":6022.67,"text":"大概多久了大概多久"},{"start":6024.15,"end":6026.15,"text":"我們希望如果可以的話"},{"start":6027.06,"end":6028.06,"text":"越快越好"},{"start":6028.06,"end":6030.06,"text":"因為從外籍看護家"},{"start":6030.06,"end":6031.06,"text":"這個看護工家庭"},{"start":6031.06,"end":6032.06,"text":"申請喘息服務"},{"start":6032.06,"end":6034.06,"text":"那使用人次從113年的"},{"start":6034.06,"end":6036.06,"text":"106萬增加到"},{"start":6036.06,"end":6038.06,"text":"114年123萬"},{"start":6038.06,"end":6040.06,"text":"那短期替代照顧服務"},{"start":6040.06,"end":6043.06,"text":"從53萬報正到111萬"},{"start":6043.06,"end":6044.06,"text":"成長108%"},{"start":6044.06,"end":6045.06,"text":"對對對"},{"start":6045.06,"end":6047.06,"text":"那整體超過234萬人次"},{"start":6047.06,"end":6049.06,"text":"這數據告訴我們"},{"start":6049.06,"end":6051.06,"text":"就是說照顧斷層是"},{"start":6051.06,"end":6053.06,"text":"外籍看護家庭"},{"start":6053.06,"end":6054.06,"text":"其實這個是非常真實"},{"start":6054.06,"end":6056.06,"text":"而普遍的這個困境"},{"start":6056.06,"end":6058.06,"text":"那洪部長當時也認為"},{"start":6058.06,"end":6061.06,"text":"52天的喘息服務確實不夠"},{"start":6061.06,"end":6063.06,"text":"那市長您認為對一個"},{"start":6063.06,"end":6066.06,"text":"需要365天24小時照顧的"},{"start":6066.06,"end":6068.06,"text":"重症家庭來說夠嗎"},{"start":6068.06,"end":6070.06,"text":"包委員我當然知道就是"},{"start":6070.06,"end":6073.06,"text":"52天當然還是有所不足"},{"start":6073.06,"end":6074.06,"text":"但是我也必須要先點出"},{"start":6074.06,"end":6075.06,"text":"現在有一個問題"},{"start":6075.06,"end":6077.06,"text":"重症家庭我們的數據"},{"start":6077.06,"end":6079.06,"text":"我們跟勞動部那邊討論"},{"start":6079.06,"end":6081.06,"text":"其實反而使用的反而不多"},{"start":6081.06,"end":6084.06,"text":"就根據就是說這幾集輕鬆鬆"},{"start":6084.06,"end":6086.06,"text":"那這裡面有一個很重要的問題"},{"start":6086.06,"end":6088.06,"text":"在於就是說重症家庭"},{"start":6088.06,"end":6089.06,"text":"他們在聘僱的時候"},{"start":6090.03,"end":6092.03,"text":"他們怕使用這個喘息之後"},{"start":6092.03,"end":6094.03,"text":"我也不瞞委員說他們怕"},{"start":6095.01,"end":6096.01,"text":"他可能就會吵"},{"start":6097.39,"end":6099.39,"text":"所以我們這裡面就是說"},{"start":6099.39,"end":6100.39,"text":"必須要有一個所謂喘息的"},{"start":6100.39,"end":6102.39,"text":"喘息的意思就是說"},{"start":6102.39,"end":6104.39,"text":"會加強這裡面"},{"start":6104.39,"end":6106.39,"text":"特別我們也跟一些"},{"start":6106.39,"end":6107.39,"text":"沒有你剛才講的問題"},{"start":6107.39,"end":6109.39,"text":"只是我們自己要考慮的問題"},{"start":6109.39,"end":6111.39,"text":"可是他這個問題確實存在"},{"start":6111.39,"end":6113.39,"text":"我覺得說我們現在"},{"start":6113.39,"end":6115.39,"text":"因為你這個方案也還沒出來"},{"start":6115.39,"end":6117.39,"text":"我現在我只把這個意見"},{"start":6117.39,"end":6118.39,"text":"先跟你講"},{"start":6118.39,"end":6120.39,"text":"那你盡快你們盡快好不好"},{"start":6120.39,"end":6121.39,"text":"好"},{"start":6121.39,"end":6122.39,"text":"那我再請問"},{"start":6122.39,"end":6124.39,"text":"這個不苗擴建工程"},{"start":6124.39,"end":6126.39,"text":"7月開始公開招標"},{"start":6126.39,"end":6127.39,"text":"到現在留標三次"},{"start":6127.39,"end":6128.39,"text":"原因是什麼"},{"start":6128.39,"end":6129.39,"text":"包委員"},{"start":6129.39,"end":6130.39,"text":"委員也知道"},{"start":6130.39,"end":6131.39,"text":"這其實"},{"start":6131.39,"end":6133.39,"text":"那邊的鄉親我們都知道就是說"},{"start":6133.39,"end":6135.39,"text":"非常非常需要"},{"start":6135.39,"end":6137.39,"text":"林業情委員他也一直都在"},{"start":6137.39,"end":6139.39,"text":"這個問題也非常非常關心"},{"start":6139.39,"end":6140.39,"text":"那這裡面大概"},{"start":6140.39,"end":6143.39,"text":"過去大概就是說因為疫情期間"},{"start":6143.39,"end":6144.39,"text":"那另外第二個"},{"start":6144.39,"end":6145.39,"text":"你不要講疫情期間"},{"start":6145.39,"end":6147.39,"text":"我現在講7月開始公開招標"},{"start":6147.39,"end":6148.39,"text":"不要講那麼遠"},{"start":6148.39,"end":6149.39,"text":"現在就去招標"},{"start":6149.39,"end":6151.39,"text":"到現在三次留標是為什麼"},{"start":6153.52,"end":6154.52,"text":"我現在問你為什麼"},{"s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現在影響多好家"},{"start":6283.49,"end":6283.99,"text":"喂"},{"start":6287.91,"end":6288.91,"text":"總統府啊"},{"start":6288.91,"end":6290.91,"text":"過去每年中秋送禮"},{"start":6290.91,"end":6293.91,"text":"從政府目前公開的資料"},{"start":6293.91,"end":6294.91,"text":"我們來看喔"},{"start":6294.91,"end":6296.91,"text":"那106年3家"},{"start":6296.91,"end":6298.91,"text":"107年是3家"},{"start":6298.91,"end":6300.91,"text":"108年是0家"},{"start":6300.91,"end":6301.91,"text":"沒有半家"},{"start":6301.91,"end":6303.91,"text":"然後109年也是3家"},{"start":6303.91,"end":6305.91,"text":"110年3家"},{"start":6305.91,"end":6307.91,"text":"111年最多8家"},{"start":6307.91,"end":6309.91,"text":"然後112年又沒有了"},{"start":6309.91,"end":6310.91,"text":"又0家"},{"start":6310.91,"end":6312.91,"text":"那113年3家"},{"start":6312.91,"end":6314.91,"text":"114年是6家"},{"start":6314.91,"end":6316.91,"text":"那過去大概就是3到6"},{"start":6316.91,"end":6317.91,"text":"巨多8家"},{"start":6317.91,"end":6319.91,"text":"怎麼今年突然變成37家了"},{"start":6323.45,"end":6326.45,"text":"如果總統府真的一次像37家採購"},{"start":6326.45,"end":6327.45,"text":"我當然支持扣他服務啊"},{"start":6327.45,"end":6328.45,"text":"照顧服務"},{"start":6328.45,"end":6331.45,"text":"但是請把採購資料拿出來嘛"},{"start":6331.45,"end":6332.45,"text":"37家各買多少"},{"start":6332.45,"end":6334.45,"text":"每一筆是多少錢"},{"start":6334.45,"end":6336.45,"text":"是一起規劃還是拆成37筆"},{"start":6336.45,"end":6338.45,"text":"分別採購"},{"start":6338.45,"end":6340.45,"text":"如果就是本來就是同一個"},{"start":6341.55,"end":6343.55,"text":"總統府中秋禮盒的採購需求"},{"start":6343.55,"end":6346.55,"text":"那是不是刻意拆成多筆小的採購"},{"start":6346.55,"end":6347.55,"text":"那就要進一步說明"},{"start":6347.55,"end":6349.55,"text":"有沒有涉及這個採購法上"},{"start":6349.55,"end":6351.55,"text":"意圖規避採購法"},{"start":6351.55,"end":6353.55,"text":"而分批辦理的問題"},{"start":6353.55,"end":6355.55,"text":"而且總統府過去幾年"},{"start":6355.55,"end":6357.55,"text":"得到的訂單重複性非常高"},{"start":6357.55,"end":6360.55,"text":"那瑪麗亞體系得標5個年度"},{"start":6361.15,"end":6363.15,"text":"愛肯尼樂活"},{"start":6363.66,"end":6365.66,"text":"工廠4個年度"},{"start":6365.66,"end":6370.66,"text":"香園、高飛、醫店各3個年度"},{"start":6370.66,"end":6373.66,"text":"那中外唐氏鎮基金會"},{"start":6373.66,"end":6375.66,"text":"善奈、小魚兒各2個年度"},{"start":6375.66,"end":6378.66,"text":"其中一個基金會的常務監察人員"},{"start":6378.66,"end":6381.66,"text":"監察員是我們民進黨部分區的立委"},{"start":6381.66,"end":6383.66,"text":"那這樣有沒有長期排擠到"},{"start":6383.66,"end":6385.66,"text":"其他上百家弱勢朋友的"},{"start":6385.66,"end":6387.66,"text":"廠商的生存權益"},{"start":6388.52,"end":6390.52,"text":"包委 我講應該不至於啦"},{"start":6390.52,"end":6393.52,"text":"這裡面 我那天也跟那個廖委"},{"start":6393.52,"end":6395.52,"text":"我們也一起去台中"},{"start":6395.52,"end":6396.52,"text":"我們也看那個瑪麗亞那邊"},{"start":6396.52,"end":6398.52,"text":"其實這些其實基本上都是我們長久以來"},{"start":6398.52,"end":6400.52,"text":"我想跟總統府這邊我們講"},{"start":6400.52,"end":6403.52,"text":"對啦 我們是希望就是說"},{"start":6403.52,"end":6407.52,"text":"總統府既然說要擴大辦理37家嘛"},{"start":6407.52,"end":6410.52,"text":"那37家你今年到底編了多少"},{"start":6410.52,"end":6412.52,"text":"你以往的紀錄你頂多就是8家"},{"start":6412.52,"end":6413.52,"text":"怎麼今年就變37"},{"start":6413.52,"end":6414.52,"text":"我覺得就很奇怪"},{"start":6414.52,"end":6416.52,"text":"那部長你們的U彩平台"},{"start":6416.52,"end":6419.52,"text":"食品類這個禮盒類"},{"start":6419.52,"end":6421.52,"text":"有146家廠商"},{"start":6421.52,"end":6424.52,"text":"1060筆商品"},{"start":6424.52,"end":6426.52,"text":"那賣月餅、中秋蛋、糕餅"},{"start":6426.52,"end":6429.52,"text":"就有63家 163個商品"},{"start":6429.52,"end":6432.52,"text":"那還沒有算餅乾、伴手禮、咖啡、茶葉"},{"start":6432.52,"end":6434.52,"text":"果乾、綜合食品這些禮盒"},{"start":6434.52,"end":6437.52,"text":"都可以當成中秋採購的商品"},{"start":6437.52,"end":6439.52,"text":"那我不知道為什麼總統府每年"},{"start":6439.52,"end":6442.52,"text":"只跟3家到8家來買"},{"start":6442.52,"end":6446.52,"text":"是給這幾家這個價值特別多"},{"start":6446.52,"end":6447.52,"text":"還是關係特別好"},{"start":6447.52,"end":6449.52,"text":"包委員應該不是這樣的"},{"start":6449.52,"end":6451.52,"text":"我的理解像那個去年"},{"start":6451.52,"end":6453.52,"text":"也是因為國務績要費"},{"start":6453.52,"end":6455.52,"text":"因為被刪問到我到桃園那邊去"},{"start":6455.52,"end":6458.52,"text":"其實我跟委員報告"},{"start":6458.52,"end":6461.52,"text":"我甚至我還請企業那邊來出數"},{"start":6461.52,"end":6464.52,"text":"我現在只是比較好奇就是說"},{"start":6464.52,"end":6468.52,"text":"總統府你應該就是說這37家名單"},{"start":6468.52,"end":6470.52,"text":"這在國務績要費動山以前"},{"start":6470.52,"end":6472.52,"text":"就已經確定了嗎"},{"start":6472.52,"end":6474.52,"text":"還是之後才形成的"},{"start":6474.52,"end":6476.52,"text":"如果總統府不給資料"},{"start":6476.52,"end":6477.52,"text":"你們是主管機關"},{"start":6477.52,"end":6479.52,"text":"應該去關心廠商吧"},{"start":6479.52,"end":6481.52,"text":"那請你們去問廠商"},{"start":6481.52,"end":6484.52,"text":"把37家可能被影響的團體找出來"},{"start":6484.52,"end":6486.52,"text":"協助他們問清楚"},{"start":6486.52,"end":6488.52,"text":"總統府巡假的這個日期"},{"start":6488.52,"end":6490.52,"text":"通知日期、下訂單的日期"},{"start":6490.52,"end":6493.52,"text":"預定的金額就知道影響的層面"},{"start":6493.52,"end":6496.52,"text":"或者這個如果總統府不會做"},{"start":6496.52,"end":6497.52,"text":"你們可以幫他做啊"},{"start":6497.52,"end":6499.52,"text":"你們是主管的"},{"start":6499.52,"end":6504.52,"text":"你們算是主管法的單位嘛"},{"start":6505.46,"end":6508.46,"text":"包委我想這個我們當然都有掌握"},{"start":6508.46,"end":6510.46,"text":"不過我覺得問題的根源"},{"start":6510.46,"end":6511.46,"text":"應該還是在就是說"},{"start":6511.46,"end":6514.46,"text":"這個本來要來支持我們國務次團體"},{"start":6514.46,"end":6516.46,"text":"你不要講到那邊去啦"},{"start":6516.46,"end":6519.46,"text":"因為我們現在就是就事論事"},{"start":6519.46,"end":6520.46,"text":"你去來說沒有"},{"start":6520.46,"end":6524.46,"text":"那你到底是幾家你講出來嘛"},{"start":6524.46,"end":6526.46,"text":"如果37家當時只有巡假"},{"start":6526.46,"end":6527.46,"text":"根本還沒有下單"},{"start":6527.46,"end":6529.46,"text":"那總統府就要講清楚啊"},{"start":6529.46,"end":6532.46,"text":"所謂的訂單收影響是什麼意思"},{"start":6532.46,"end":6534.46,"text":"那反過來如果已經下單了"},{"start":6534.46,"end":6535.46,"text":"7月已經成立"},{"start":6535.46,"end":6537.46,"text":"那是誰決定不履行的"},{"start":6537.46,"end":6540.46,"text":"立法院沒有叫總統府取消"},{"start":6540.46,"end":6542.46,"text":"任何一家庇護工廠的訂單耶"},{"start":6543.51,"end":6546.51,"text":"如果是總統府因為自己的經費配置決定取消"},{"start":6546.51,"end":6550.51,"text":"那就說明契約處理跟廠商的實際損失嘛"},{"start":6550.51,"end":6553.51,"text":"不能一句力量煽動就把這個"},{"start":6553.51,"end":6556.51,"text":"這個煽動就把這個責任通通推出去"},{"start":6557.57,"end":6559.57,"text":"你要去幫陸氏團體講話"},{"start":6560.34,"end":6562.34,"text":"不是在這邊看戲啊"},{"start":6562.34,"end":6564.34,"text":"另外總統府現在公開告訴大家"},{"start":6564.34,"end":6566.34,"text":"這三千萬國務機要費"},{"start":6566.34,"end":6569.34,"text":"就是要拿來跟陸氏團體買重修業品"},{"start":6569.34,"end":6570.34,"text":"確實沒錯"},{"start":6570.34,"end":6571.34,"text":"對那我覺得啦"},{"start":6571.34,"end":6572.34,"text":"大家就公平一點嘛"},{"start":6572.34,"end":6574.34,"text":"就按照總統府的邏輯"},{"start":6574.34,"end":6575.34,"text":"對不對那我提議"},{"start":6575.34,"end":6580.34,"text":"總統府國務機要費三千萬全數公益化全數優彩化"},{"start":6580.93,"end":6583.93,"text":"老老實實讓這三千萬國務機要費"},{"start":6583.93,"end":6586.93,"text":"每一筆錢都留在陸氏的這個優彩平台"},{"start":6586.93,"end":6588.93,"text":"專款專用來幫陸氏"},{"start":6590.19,"end":6592.19,"text":"這個買陸氏團體的產品"},{"start":6593.48,"end":6595.48,"text":"而且採購的資格公開嘛"},{"start":6595.48,"end":6597.48,"text":"遴選方式公開"},{"start":6597.48,"end":6599.48,"text":"採購金額全部公開"},{"start":6599.48,"end":6601.48,"text":"受益對象也是公開的"},{"start":6601.48,"end":6603.48,"text":"讓大大小小的陸氏機構都有機會拿到"},{"start":6603.48,"end":6605.48,"text":"總統府國務機要費的訂單"},{"start":6605.48,"end":6607.48,"text":"這不是很好嗎"},{"start":6606.95,"end":6607.95,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6607.95,"end":6610.95,"text":"市長你身為主管機關"},{"start":6610.95,"end":6612.95,"text":"應該不會拒絕總統府的這個愛心吧"},{"start":6614.02,"end":6618.02,"text":"包委員我們呼籲社會各界大家共同來關心我們"},{"start":6618.02,"end":6622.02,"text":"但是問題就是說這很明顯的這三千萬被"},{"start":6622.81,"end":6624.81,"text":"被刪減"},{"start":6624.81,"end":6626.81,"text":"我們就算有這個平台"},{"start":6626.81,"end":6628.81,"text":"也要有這一個金錢來購買"},{"start":6628.81,"end":6630.81,"text":"也要請大院來大力支持"},{"start":6630.81,"end":6632.81,"text":"大家一起來做愛心"},{"start":6632.81,"end":6634.81,"text":"所以你是支持"},{"start":6634.81,"end":6636.81,"text":"你是支持把國務機要費"},{"start":6636.81,"end":6638.81,"text":"跟這個"},{"start":6638.81,"end":6640.81,"text":"這個公益化全數公益化"},{"start":6640.81,"end":6642.81,"text":"全數優彩化來綁在一起"},{"start":6642.81,"end":6644.81,"text":"放在陸氏平台"},{"start":6644.81,"end":6646.81,"text":"你支持嗎"},{"start":6646.81,"end":6648.81,"text":"我支持我們大家一起來幫助我們的陸氏團體"},{"start":6648.97,"end":6650.97,"text":"不要說"},{"start":6650.97,"end":6652.97,"text":"國務機要費被刪的時候"},{"start":6652.97,"end":6654.97,"text":"三千萬就是落實的"},{"start":6654.97,"end":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大概76啦"},{"start":7207.22,"end":7209.22,"text":"我剛剛講76啊所以就是不足啊"},{"start":7209.22,"end":7211.22,"text":"所以我們現在目前也反正"},{"start":7211.22,"end":7213.22,"text":"像剛剛之前陳建英委員也說"},{"start":7213.22,"end":7215.22,"text":"我們這裡面有一些相關的一些整個"},{"start":7215.22,"end":7217.22,"text":"整個職績啊還有相關的風險"},{"start":7217.22,"end":7219.22,"text":"加起來這邊我們我最近已經趕快"},{"start":7219.22,"end":7221.22,"text":"已經要簽報給這個行政院"},{"start":7221.22,"end":7223.22,"text":"我們希望透過這個整個薪資"},{"start":7223.22,"end":7225.22,"text":"跟勞動條件的改善也希望能夠來"},{"start":7225.22,"end":7227.22,"text":"趕快來補齊"},{"start":7227.22,"end":7229.22,"text":"那這個部分是不是你要多少時間內"},{"start":7229.22,"end":7231.22,"text":"給本席一個報告"},{"start":7231.26,"end":7233.26,"text":"我要三個月之內好不好"},{"start":7233.26,"end":7235.26,"text":"三個月之內我趕快"},{"start":7235.26,"end":7237.26,"text":"三個月會不會太久一個月可以嗎"},{"start":7237.26,"end":7239.26,"text":"好OK一個月OK"},{"start":7239.26,"end":7241.26,"text":"而且還有第二件事情就是你要去查"},{"start":7241.26,"end":7243.26,"text":"給本席辦公室一個就是"},{"start":7243.26,"end":7245.26,"text":"為什麼他解安的原因的分類表"},{"start":7245.26,"end":7247.26,"text":"你要知道說為什麼"},{"start":7247.26,"end":7249.26,"text":"因此就沒有辦法"},{"start":7249.26,"end":7251.26,"text":"把他這個程序的問題"},{"start":7251.26,"end":7253.26,"text":"好那再來下一題就是"},{"start":7253.26,"end":7255.26,"text":"今天這個部分喔"},{"start":7255.26,"end":7257.26,"text":"想請教目前這個性防法"},{"start":7257.26,"end":7259.26,"text":"兒少性博學條例"},{"start":7259.26,"end":7261.26,"text":"然後現在都在你的保護服務司"},{"start":7261.26,"end":7263.26,"text":"那性暴力防治科"},{"start":7263.26,"end":7265.26,"text":"管這個性防治跟兒少性博學條例"},{"start":7265.26,"end":7267.26,"text":"那兒少保護科"},{"start":7267.26,"end":7269.26,"text":"管兒虐"},{"start":7269.26,"end":7271.26,"text":"那113專線也在這個"},{"start":7271.26,"end":7273.26,"text":"司喔但是你們現在的主改"},{"start":7273.26,"end":7275.26,"text":"就是我也去看了一下你們行政院"},{"start":7275.26,"end":7277.26,"text":"去年12月11號的院會簡報"},{"start":7277.26,"end":7279.26,"text":"兒少及家庭"},{"start":7279.26,"end":7281.26,"text":"支持署下面設保護"},{"start":7281.26,"end":7283.26,"text":"安置組"},{"start":7283.26,"end":7285.26,"text":"那寫的是兒少保護安置服務"},{"start":7285.26,"end":7287.26,"text":"住宿式照顧"},{"start":7287.26,"end":7289.26,"text":"那當然今年2月你們又宣布要成立"},{"start":7289.26,"end":7291.26,"text":"所謂的婦女發展及"},{"start":7291.26,"end":7293.26,"text":"保護服務司"},{"start":7293.26,"end":7295.26,"text":"對那你5月的時候"},{"start":7295.26,"end":7297.26,"text":"屢次你也說將婦女政策"},{"start":7297.26,"end":7299.26,"text":"移出社家屬"},{"start":7299.26,"end":7301.26,"text":"吝嗇婦女及保護司喔"},{"start":7301.26,"end":7303.26,"text":"那我把那個整份的簡報"},{"start":7303.26,"end":7305.26,"text":"看完之後"},{"start":7305.26,"end":7307.26,"text":"你那6頁裡面的簡報啊"},{"start":7307.26,"end":7309.26,"text":"在性侵害的這個名詞或針對這件事情"},{"start":7309.26,"end":7311.26,"text":"三個字出現了幾次"},{"start":7312.76,"end":7314.76,"text":"其實是零次啊"},{"start":7314.76,"end":7316.76,"text":"你們裡面好像沒有在討論這件事情"},{"start":7316.76,"end":7318.76,"text":"所以我今天是想要請教喔"},{"start":7318.76,"end":7320.76,"text":"就是主改之後啊"},{"start":7320.76,"end":7322.76,"text":"你的性侵害防治法"},{"start":7322.76,"end":7324.76,"text":"是歸誰來處理"},{"start":7324.76,"end":7326.76,"text":"兒少性剝削的這個"},{"start":7326.76,"end":7328.76,"text":"防治條例歸誰"},{"start":7328.76,"end":7330.76,"text":"那兒少保護去兒家屬"},{"start":7330.76,"end":7332.76,"text":"那性侵害防治如果留在"},{"start":7332.76,"end":7334.76,"text":"掛婦女兩個字的司"},{"start":7334.76,"end":7336.76,"text":"那兒少如果被性侵"},{"start":7336.76,"end":7338.76,"text":"這兩邊都沾的案子"},{"start":7338.76,"end":7340.76,"text":"到底是兒家屬要負責還是這個"},{"start":7340.76,"end":7342.76,"text":"女私要負的事情"},{"start":7342.76,"end":7344.76,"text":"那依三又歸誰"},{"start":7344.76,"end":7346.76,"text":"我會想一個法或者是一個主責單位"},{"start":7346.76,"end":7348.76,"text":"總不能有兩個媽嘛"},{"start":7348.76,"end":7350.76,"text":"所以到底是以誰為主嘛"},{"start":7350.76,"end":7352.76,"text":"我先簡單回答委員的問題喔"},{"start":7352.76,"end":7354.76,"text":"現在有關於那個有關性剝削"},{"start":7354.76,"end":7356.76,"text":"還有有關性侵害等等這些"},{"start":7356.76,"end":7358.76,"text":"全部都還是留在保護司"},{"start":7358.76,"end":7360.76,"text":"都還留在保護司"},{"start":7360.76,"end":7362.76,"text":"兒少性剝削然後還性侵害"},{"start":7362.76,"end":7364.76,"text":"因為我們回應那個社會各界之前"},{"start":7364.76,"end":7366.76,"text":"對於有關兒童虐待"},{"start":7366.76,"end":7368.76,"text":"那兒童虐待裡面沒錯"},{"start":7368.76,"end":7370.76,"text":"我們裡面考慮到就是這裡面"},{"start":7370.76,"end":7372.76,"text":"也會跟整個這個社會安全網"},{"start":7372.76,"end":7374.76,"text":"裡面有關於這個"},{"start":7374.76,"end":7376.76,"text":"那個脆弱性的這個家庭"},{"start":7376.76,"end":7378.76,"text":"所以我們會未來會把"},{"start":7378.76,"end":7380.76,"text":"這個部分移到新成立的兒家屬"},{"start":7380.76,"end":7382.76,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":7382.76,"end":7384.76,"text":"可以再講清楚一點嗎"},{"start":7384.76,"end":7386.76,"text":"我覺得聽起來我覺得有點困難"},{"start":7386.76,"end":7388.76,"text":"簡單來講就是委員剛剛所關心的"},{"start":7388.76,"end":7390.76,"text":"有關性侵害"},{"start":7390.76,"end":7392.76,"text":"還有關性剝削這個部分"},{"start":7392.76,"end":7394.76,"text":"還是維持在"},{"start":7394.76,"end":7396.76,"text":"未來也是在保護司"},{"start":7396.76,"end":7398.76,"text":"那另外第二個"},{"start":7398.76,"end":7402.76,"text":"原先有關於兒童虐待的問題"},{"start":7402.76,"end":7404.76,"text":"我們就是把它撥到"},{"start":7404.76,"end":7406.76,"text":"兒家屬那邊的保護安置組"},{"start":7407.97,"end":7409.97,"text":"我們全責分工"},{"start":7409.97,"end":7413.97,"text":"以後這個服務與發展及保護服務司"},{"start":7413.97,"end":7415.97,"text":"就是負責你剛剛所謂的"},{"start":7415.97,"end":7417.97,"text":"性剝削性侵害"},{"start":7417.97,"end":7419.97,"text":"對沒錯"},{"start":7419.97,"end":7421.97,"text":"那如果兒童也是有關這部分的話"},{"start":7421.97,"end":7423.97,"text":"那當然也是"},{"start":7423.97,"end":7425.97,"text":"還是在保護司"},{"start":7426.18,"end":7428.18,"text":"兒童如果有牽扯到這兩個"},{"start":7428.18,"end":7430.18,"text":"也還是有保護司"},{"start":7430.18,"end":7432.18,"text":"所以兒家屬就不負責"},{"start":7432.18,"end":7434.18,"text":"不是由他們來主持"},{"start":7434.18,"end":7436.18,"text":"所以主要在這裡"},{"start":7436.18,"end":7438.18,"text":"那再來呢"},{"start":7438.36,"end":7440.36,"text":"我想要問一下"},{"start":7440.36,"end":7442.36,"text":"部長今天的議程27案"},{"start":7442.36,"end":7444.36,"text":"那我也一案一案對過"},{"start":7444.36,"end":7446.36,"text":"全部都是立委提的"},{"start":7446.36,"end":7448.36,"text":"有行政院版本嗎"},{"start":7448.32,"end":7450.32,"text":"那我想立法院有多急"},{"start":7450.32,"end":7452.32,"text":"看提案就知道了"},{"start":7452.32,"end":7454.32,"text":"光是動到第53條之二"},{"start":7454.32,"end":7456.32,"text":"把追溯時效改成被害人滿"},{"start":7456.32,"end":7458.32,"text":"20歲後起算的就有13案"},{"start":7458.32,"end":7460.32,"text":"那更急的在後面"},{"start":7460.32,"end":7462.32,"text":"連憲法法庭都開口"},{"start":7462.32,"end":7464.32,"text":"8月14日15年的憲判自的第六號判決"},{"start":7464.32,"end":7466.32,"text":"憲法法庭的書記聽說明"},{"start":7466.32,"end":7468.32,"text":"先前修法"},{"start":7468.32,"end":7470.32,"text":"並未及於關於"},{"start":7470.32,"end":7474.32,"text":"拍攝兒童少年性影像之性剝削犯罪的"},{"start":7474.32,"end":7476.32,"text":"追溯權的時效期間"},{"start":7476.32,"end":7478.32,"text":"那相關的機關"},{"start":7478.32,"end":7480.32,"text":"因妥術通盤檢討"},{"start":7480.32,"end":7482.32,"text":"修正相關規定"},{"start":7482.3,"end":7484.3,"text":"所以我想要先請教一下"},{"start":7484.3,"end":7486.3,"text":"這個事情是"},{"start":7486.3,"end":7488.3,"text":"怎麼"},{"start":7486.35,"end":7488.35,"text":"是不是"},{"start":7487.45,"end":7489.45,"text":"怎麼這麼卡"},{"start":7488.72,"end":7490.72,"text":"那我看到的事情叫做"},{"start":7490.72,"end":7492.72,"text":"可能不是你們完全沒有動喔"},{"start":7492.72,"end":7494.72,"text":"而是這個郭采榮司長在8月14日也公開表示"},{"start":7494.72,"end":7496.72,"text":"衛福部已經完成了修法"},{"start":7496.72,"end":7498.72,"text":"8月初也已經函送行政院"},{"start":7498.72,"end":7500.72,"text":"是的"},{"start":7500.72,"end":7502.72,"text":"那所以 但是問題就來了"},{"start":7502.72,"end":7504.72,"text":"那到現在為什麼都還沒有行政院的版本"},{"start":7504.72,"end":7506.72,"text":"那到底是什麼時候送的"},{"start":7506.72,"end":7508.72,"text":"那行政院是幾日收文"},{"start":7508.72,"end":7510.72,"text":"現在草案在哪個單位"},{"start":7510.72,"end":7512.72,"text":"已經開過幾次的審查會議"},{"start":7512.72,"end":7514.72,"text":"然後你們卡在哪個針點"},{"start":7514.72,"end":7516.72,"text":"預計什麼時候送到立法院來"},{"start":7515.95,"end":7517.95,"text":"那所以到底是你們送的慢還是行政院審的慢"},{"start":7519.08,"end":7521.08,"text":"包委我們簡單的回答"},{"start":7521.08,"end":7523.08,"text":"兩個重點"},{"start":7523.08,"end":7525.08,"text":"第一個我們整個院版"},{"start":7525.08,"end":7527.08,"text":"我們的版本已經在8月6日"},{"start":7527.08,"end":7529.08,"text":"送達行政院"},{"start":7529.08,"end":7531.08,"text":"另外第二點現在目前就是委員您剛所說的"},{"start":7531.08,"end":7533.08,"text":"有關於通盤檢討"},{"start":7533.08,"end":7535.08,"text":"您剛所說的憲法制度這些相關的問題"},{"start":7535.08,"end":7537.08,"text":"我們也在我們送的院版的部分裡面"},{"start":7537.08,"end":7539.08,"text":"都已經函那"},{"start":7539.08,"end":7541.08,"text":"那所以現在是卡在哪裡"},{"start":7541.08,"end":7543.08,"text":"是行政院"},{"start":7540.89,"end":7542.89,"text":"8月6日我們已經送進去"},{"start":7542.89,"end":7544.89,"text":"現在目前也在趕快"},{"start":7544.89,"end":7546.89,"text":"在進行相關的審議工作"},{"start":7546.89,"end":7548.89,"text":"那到底為什麼會這麼卡"},{"start":7548.89,"end":7550.89,"text":"現在是卡在哪個點"},{"start":7550.89,"end":7552.89,"text":"沒有吧應該我們8月6日送進去"},{"start":7552.89,"end":7554.89,"text":"可是你看你們食安法"},{"start":7554.89,"end":7556.89,"text":"很快就進來了還送到立法院來"},{"start":7556.89,"end":7558.89,"text":"那這個問題到底是卡在哪裡"},{"start":7559.49,"end":7561.49,"text":"包委我們現在目前院那邊都已經在加緊"},{"start":7561.49,"end":7563.49,"text":"在做相關的審查工作"},{"start":7565.35,"end":7567.35,"text":"加緊那時程大概是什麼"},{"start":7568.47,"end":7570.47,"text":"欸"},{"start":7569.97,"end":7571.97,"text":"我們會來趕快"},{"start":7571.97,"end":7573.97,"text":"所以你還沒辦法確定時程"},{"start":7573.97,"end":7575.97,"text":"剛剛說8月6日我們已經送進去"},{"start":7575.97,"end":7577.97,"text":"那我相信院那邊會趕快"},{"start":7577.97,"end":7579.97,"text":"有一個回覆"},{"start":7580.43,"end":7582.43,"text":"好OK"},{"start":7582.43,"end":7584.43,"text":"那次長我看到"},{"start":7584.43,"end":7586.43,"text":"但你還是要給我一個時間啦"},{"start":7586.43,"end":7588.43,"text":"你們預計大概什麼時候"},{"start":7588.92,"end":7590.92,"text":"市長沒辦法回答"},{"start":7590.92,"end":7592.92,"text":"還是你回去趕快去催這個行政院"},{"start":7592.92,"end":7594.92,"text":"我們會請"},{"start":7594.92,"end":7596.92,"text":"所以換言之就是行政院還卡住"},{"start":7596.92,"end":7598.92,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":7598.92,"end":7600.92,"text":"不會啦8號委員我們現在目前這邊"},{"start":7600.92,"end":7602.92,"text":"都會趕快我們知道社會科學對這個事情的關心"},{"start":7602.92,"end":7604.92,"text":"我們會趕快來進行"},{"start":7604.92,"end":7606.92,"text":"的一個版本"},{"start":7608.34,"end":7610.34,"text":"市長然後我看到衛福部的書面報告"},{"start":7610.34,"end":7612.34,"text":"你們不同意"},{"start":7612.34,"end":7614.34,"text":"院之委員的這個版本其中一個理由"},{"start":7614.34,"end":7616.34,"text":"是所現行的性侵害防治"},{"start":7617.51,"end":7619.51,"text":"法的第52條已經有規定"},{"start":7619.51,"end":7621.51,"text":"所以是否還要另外建立"},{"start":7621.51,"end":7623.51,"text":"公開制度需要審慎"},{"start":7623.51,"end":7625.51,"text":"評估喔可是我想要問一下"},{"start":7625.51,"end":7627.51,"text":"次長喔這個是52條到底規定了"},{"start":7627.51,"end":7629.51,"text":"什麼他要求這個加害人"},{"start":7629.51,"end":7631.51,"text":"加害人喔必須要必須"},{"start":7631.51,"end":7633.51,"text":"先判決有罪確定"},{"start":7633.51,"end":7635.51,"text":"然後呢而且還要"},{"start":7635.51,"end":7637.51,"text":"逃亡藏匿"},{"start":7637.51,"end":7639.51,"text":"精通器警察機關才"},{"start":7639.51,"end":7641.51,"text":"得公開他的身份資訊"},{"start":7641.51,"end":7643.51,"text":"那換句話說"},{"start":7643.51,"end":7645.51,"text":"基本上要等到判決確定後"},{"start":7645.51,"end":7647.51,"text":"那個人跑了然後"},{"start":7647.51,"end":7649.51,"text":"躲起來了被空開通緝了"},{"start":7649.51,"end":7651.51,"text":"你們才說可以公開喔"},{"start":7651.51,"end":7653.51,"text":"還不是一定要公開"},{"start":7653.51,"end":7655.51,"text":"那還留了一個才良權來"},{"start":7655.51,"end":7657.51,"text":"庇護這些性侵犯喔"},{"start":7657.51,"end":7659.51,"text":"我說的是已經是"},{"start":7659.51,"end":7661.51,"text":"定讞的喔所以我們這次"},{"start":7661.51,"end":7663.51,"text":"修法要修的處理的是什麼"},{"start":7663.51,"end":7665.51,"text":"是對於本法的第二條"},{"start":7665.51,"end":7667.51,"text":"第一項所列的性侵害犯罪"},{"start":7667.51,"end":7669.51,"text":"加害人判決確定後"},{"start":7669.51,"end":7671.51,"text":"如果依他的犯罪情節"},{"start":7671.51,"end":7673.51,"text":"履行義務情形"},{"start":7673.51,"end":7675.51,"text":"活動範圍以及專業評估"},{"start":7675.51,"end":7677.51,"text":"已經足夠認定"},{"start":7677.51,"end":7679.51,"text":"具有高度再犯風險"},{"start":7679.51,"end":7681.51,"text":"能不能提早讓潛在"},{"start":7681.51,"end":7683.51,"text":"的再次的犯行"},{"start":7683.51,"end":7685.51,"text":"的這些被害這個"},{"start":7685.51,"end":7687.51,"text":"加害人喔讓這些"},{"start":7687.51,"end":7689.51,"text":"被害人可以得到必要的警示"},{"start":7689.51,"end":7691.51,"text":"所以想要問一下次長"},{"start":7691.51,"end":7693.51,"text":"一個是逃亡通緝後"},{"start":7693.51,"end":7695.51,"text":"找人一個是再犯之前防人"},{"start":7695.51,"end":7697.51,"text":"這兩件事情怎麼會一樣"},{"start":7697.51,"end":7699.51,"text":"所以我想"},{"start":7699.51,"end":7701.51,"text":"如果今天政府反對這個所謂"},{"start":7701.51,"end":7703.51,"text":"業人之委員的版本"},{"start":7703.51,"end":7705.51,"text":"是不是不要只告訴我說第52條"},{"start":7705.51,"end":7707.51,"text":"已經有了要請部長"},{"start":7707.51,"end":7709.51,"text":"直接要請次長這一回答"},{"start":7709.51,"end":7711.51,"text":"現行的第52條到底要怎麼保護"},{"start":7711.51,"end":7713.51,"text":"這些面對再犯風險高的"},{"start":7713.51,"end":7715.51,"text":"性侵害加害人的潛在"},{"start":7715.51,"end":7717.51,"text":"被害人難道一定要等到"},{"start":7717.51,"end":7719.51,"text":"在被到這個他"},{"start":7719.51,"end":7721.51,"text":"在犯案了甚至逃亡通緝之後"},{"start":7721.51,"end":7723.51,"text":"政府才有認為公開"},{"start":7723.51,"end":7725.51,"text":"資訊的必要嗎"},{"start":7725.66,"end":7727.66,"text":"這裡面"},{"start":7727.66,"end":7729.66,"text":"兩個重點第一個就是說"},{"start":7729.66,"end":7731.66,"text":"有關於這個加害人的問題"},{"start":7731.66,"end":7733.66,"text":"這不是只是簡單加害人"},{"start":7733.66,"end":7735.66,"text":"這裡面我們還有"},{"start":7735.66,"end":7737.66,"text":"一般我們通常"},{"start":7737.66,"end":7739.66,"text":"手人所為"},{"start":7739.66,"end":7741.66,"text":"這裡面會牽到就是說一旦公告之後"},{"start":7741.66,"end":7743.66,"text":"我們也要考慮到那個"},{"start":7743.66,"end":7745.66,"text":"被害人他自己本身的一個隱私"},{"start":7745.66,"end":7747.66,"text":"問題"},{"start":7747.66,"end":7749.66,"text":"我們不是要公告被害人我們是"},{"start":7749.66,"end":7751.66,"text":"講這個加害人可是這裡面"},{"start":7751.66,"end":7753.66,"text":"也有牽涉到一個整個相關的"},{"start":7753.66,"end":7755.66,"text":"他的這個隱私保護啦"},{"start":7755.66,"end":7757.66,"text":"事實上我怎麼覺得這個聽起來很"},{"start":7757.66,"end":7759.66,"text":"很奇怪你怎麼要公開"},{"start":7759.66,"end":7761.66,"text":"加害人變成是你變成要把被害"},{"start":7761.66,"end":7763.66,"text":"人扯進去我們並沒有要公開被害人"},{"start":7764.94,"end":7766.94,"text":"所以市長這部分你們是不是"},{"start":7766.94,"end":7768.94,"text":"應該要回去好好的檢討我想"},{"start":7768.94,"end":7770.94,"text":"也不只這個在黨委員提"},{"start":7770.94,"end":7772.94,"text":"剛剛好幾位委員我想"},{"start":7772.94,"end":7774.94,"text":"也都有提到這有關於公開的部分"},{"start":7774.94,"end":7776.94,"text":"是不是你們應該"},{"start":7776.94,"end":7778.94,"text":"這個我們回去我們再來做一個"},{"start":7778.94,"end":7780.94,"text":"相關的理由我們要保護的是被害人"},{"start":7780.94,"end":7782.94,"text":"不是加害人好不好市長"},{"start":7782.94,"end":7784.94,"text":"當然當然最後我還是要呼籲"},{"start":7784.94,"end":7786.94,"text":"一下市長我們六月的時候有"},{"start":7786.94,"end":7788.94,"text":"到台中去看庇護工廠沒錯"},{"start":7788.94,"end":7790.94,"text":"對嘛那你當時我們也知道有"},{"start":7790.94,"end":7792.94,"text":"很多問題嗎虛擬採購問題也有"},{"start":7792.94,"end":7794.94,"text":"有的問題是是是那甚至也都有統計"},{"start":7794.94,"end":7796.94,"text":"出來差了七至少"},{"start":7796.94,"end":7798.94,"text":"七億到十億啊"},{"start":7798.94,"end":7800.94,"text":"對吧我想市長你也都平平點頭直到"},{"start":7800.94,"end":7802.94,"text":"這個庇護工廠採購優先採購裡面"},{"start":7802.94,"end":7804.94,"text":"充滿很多問題對那當"},{"start":7804.94,"end":7806.94,"text":"天我也很高興這個所謂"},{"start":7806.94,"end":7808.94,"text":"市長這邊啊當天我們看了幾個"},{"start":7808.94,"end":7810.94,"text":"庇護工廠那他們也可以提供"},{"start":7810.94,"end":7812.94,"text":"的服務是還不錯市長當"},{"start":7812.94,"end":7814.94,"text":"當下也想到說未來在"},{"start":7814.94,"end":7816.94,"text":"長照的部分可以納入這個"},{"start":7816.94,"end":7818.94,"text":"優彩的部分你記不記得"},{"start":7818.94,"end":7820.94,"text":"到這個獨居老人那裡清洗"},{"start":7820.94,"end":7822.94,"text":"這個清洗的"},{"start":7823.45,"end":7825.45,"text":"相關打掃環境的部分啊"},{"start":7825.45,"end":7827.45,"text":"對沒錯你記得嘛對不對"},{"start":7827.45,"end":7829.45,"text":"那你們現在然後後來你也答應本席要檢討"},{"start":7829.45,"end":7831.45,"text":"要找這些庇護工廠來開會檢討"},{"start":7831.45,"end":7833.45,"text":"那你們現在進度怎麼樣"},{"start":7833.45,"end":7835.45,"text":"據我所知你們昨天有開會啊對沒錯"},{"start":7835.45,"end":7837.45,"text":"所以代表本來就有問題"},{"start":7837.45,"end":7839.45,"text":"所以你們昨天才找來檢討"},{"start":7839.45,"end":7841.45,"text":"對不對市長包委也非常"},{"start":7841.45,"end":7843.45,"text":"感謝委員對這個問題的關心這裡面"},{"start":7843.45,"end":7845.45,"text":"就像委員剛剛所說的就有關"},{"start":7845.45,"end":7847.45,"text":"優彩的部分他就是比例"},{"start":7847.45,"end":7849.45,"text":"還有另外就是說各個團體他們之間"},{"start":7849.45,"end":7851.45,"text":"是不是有這一個灌水的問題"},{"start":7851.45,"end":7853.45,"text":"所以我們現在目前是在針對這個"},{"start":7853.45,"end":7855.45,"text":"昨天的會議主要是針對這個部分"},{"start":7855.45,"end":7857.45,"text":"另外第二個您剛剛說可是你們昨天"},{"start":7857.45,"end":7859.45,"text":"好像沒有任何的結論對不對"},{"start":7859.92,"end":7861.92,"text":"欸"},{"start":7861.6,"end":7863.6,"text":"所以其實我想要表達的事情是"},{"start":7863.6,"end":7865.6,"text":"政府該做什麼做什麼尤其是對於"},{"start":7865.6,"end":7867.6,"text":"這些這些需要被照顧的"},{"start":7867.6,"end":7869.6,"text":"相關的弱勢團體"},{"start":7869.6,"end":7871.6,"text":"那事實上我們也去看了他們可以提供的服務也很好"},{"start":7871.6,"end":7873.6,"text":"那你們應該要儘速的動作"},{"start":7873.6,"end":7875.6,"text":"而不是把這個弱勢團體"},{"start":7875.6,"end":7877.6,"text":"來當作是政治操作的手段"},{"start":7877.6,"end":7879.6,"text":"來做這樣的政治操作"},{"start":7879.6,"end":7881.6,"text":"我其實看了是蠻生氣的喔"},{"start":7881.6,"end":7883.6,"text":"而且還有私底下我憑良心講啊"},{"start":7883.6,"end":7885.6,"text":"私底下當天還有庇護工廠跟我說"},{"start":7885.6,"end":7887.6,"text":"相關的庇護工廠跟我說"},{"start":7887.6,"end":7889.6,"text":"總統府有打電話想要"},{"start":7889.6,"end":7891.6,"text":"叫他們去開記者會"},{"start":7891.6,"end":7893.6,"text":"但他們覺得很不合理"},{"start":7893.6,"end":7895.6,"text":"怎麼會把弱勢團體拿來做這樣的政治操作"},{"start":7895.6,"end":7897.6,"text":"所以他們不想要參與"},{"start":7897.6,"end":7899.6,"text":"我跟你說就是這樣以上就到這裡"},{"start":7899.6,"end":7901.6,"text":"也請委員我們大家"},{"start":7901.6,"end":7903.6,"text":"一起來關心我們的問題"},{"start":7903.6,"end":7905.6,"text":"我也很高興那天你跟我去"},{"start":7905.6,"end":7907.6,"text":"那個去這個現場去勘察的時候"},{"start":7907.6,"end":7909.6,"text":"有很多具體的建議啊"},{"start":7909.6,"end":7911.6,"text":"但是要請你們動作快一點謝謝"},{"start":7911.6,"end":7913.6,"text":"好感謝委員謝謝"},{"start":7912.82,"end":7914.82,"text":"好接下來"},{"start":7914.82,"end":7916.82,"text":"宣告喔"},{"start":7916.82,"end":7918.82,"text":"待會如現役委員詢答完畢後"},{"start":7918.82,"end":7920.82,"text":"我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":7920.82,"end":7922.82,"text":"接下來請黃秀芳委員發言"},{"start":7929.19,"end":7931.19,"text":"呃"},{"start":7931.38,"end":7933.38,"text":"謝謝主席我們請履次"},{"start":7939.6,"end":7941.6,"text":"黃委員早安 市長好"},{"start":7941.42,"end":7943.42,"text":"呃市長就是"},{"start":7944.24,"end":7946.24,"text":"我想請教就是說"},{"start":7946.24,"end":7948.24,"text":"立法院在8月14號"},{"start":7948.24,"end":7950.24,"text":"有通過就是"},{"start":7950.24,"end":7952.24,"text":"有關邊刑的這樣的一個"},{"start":7952.24,"end":7954.24,"text":"公投提案"},{"start":7954.24,"end":7956.24,"text":"那當然這個還要經過這個"},{"start":7956.24,"end":7958.24,"text":"中選會這邊可能還要"},{"start":7958.24,"end":7960.24,"text":"再經過審查那是不是會成案"},{"start":7960.24,"end":7962.24,"text":"可能這幾天就會知道"},{"start":7962.24,"end":7964.24,"text":"那我想請教就是說"},{"start":7964.24,"end":7966.24,"text":"呃"},{"start":7966.04,"end":7968.04,"text":"這個未來如果成案之後"},{"start":7968.04,"end":7970.04,"text":"那衛福部你們這邊"},{"start":7970.04,"end":7972.04,"text":"要做的"},{"start":7972.04,"end":7974.04,"text":"可能未來是誰"},{"start":7974.04,"end":7976.04,"text":"要去執行或者是這個"},{"start":7976.04,"end":7978.04,"text":"加害人要去"},{"start":7978.04,"end":7980.04,"text":"這個接受邊刑的時候"},{"start":7980.04,"end":7982.04,"text":"可能衛福部也需要做一些分析"},{"start":7982.04,"end":7984.04,"text":"譬如說這個"},{"start":7984.04,"end":7986.04,"text":"這個加害人的這個身體"},{"start":7986.04,"end":7988.04,"text":"狀況是怎樣那這個應該"},{"start":7988.04,"end":7990.04,"text":"也是衛福部這邊要做的"},{"start":7990.04,"end":7992.04,"text":"所以我想請教就是說"},{"start":7992.04,"end":7994.04,"text":"如果這個"},{"start":7994.04,"end":7996.04,"text":"這個公投成案之後"},{"start":7996.04,"end":7998.04,"text":"那衛福部你是不是要去做"},{"start":7998.04,"end":8000.04,"text":"什麼樣的動作"},{"start":8000.04,"end":8002.04,"text":"讓社會大眾來了解"},{"start":8002.04,"end":8004.04,"text":"嗯嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":8004.04,"end":8006.04,"text":"非常感謝委員對這個問題的關心"},{"start":8006.04,"end":8008.04,"text":"我想大概三個重點啦 第一個就是"},{"start":8008.04,"end":8010.04,"text":"有關於 呃 邊刑到底要不要"},{"start":8010.04,"end":8012.04,"text":"採行與否 我想這個社會"},{"start":8012.04,"end":8014.04,"text":"我想還有很多人都討論 那陳五剛委員"},{"start":8014.04,"end":8016.04,"text":"剛剛所說的新加坡情況跟台灣"},{"start":8016.04,"end":8018.04,"text":"我覺得也不完全 也不完全一樣"},{"start":8018.04,"end":8020.04,"text":"那這裡面最重要的應該會"},{"start":8020.04,"end":8022.04,"text":"牽涉到有關於我們的刑罰"},{"start":8022.04,"end":8024.04,"text":"政策跟席次訴訟法的問題"},{"start":8024.04,"end":8026.04,"text":"那這個裡面"},{"start":8026.04,"end":8028.04,"text":"我本部不便月除待袍"},{"start":8028.04,"end":8030.04,"text":"所以這個可能還是要請"},{"start":8030.04,"end":8032.04,"text":"好那如果中選會"},{"start":8032.04,"end":8034.04,"text":"就是這個公投成案之後"},{"start":8034.04,"end":8036.04,"text":"也要納入11月28號"},{"start":8036.04,"end":8038.04,"text":"的這個公投"},{"start":8038.04,"end":8040.04,"text":"那你們衛福部這邊"},{"start":8040.04,"end":8042.04,"text":"該做什麼事情"},{"start":8042.04,"end":8044.04,"text":"這裡面就是剛剛陳五剛委員所說的"},{"start":8044.04,"end":8046.04,"text":"這裡面可能會牽涉到"},{"start":8046.04,"end":8048.04,"text":"有關於這一個加害人"},{"start":8048.04,"end":8050.04,"text":"就是說這一個"},{"start":8050.04,"end":8052.04,"text":"可能會判刑的他們的"},{"start":8052.04,"end":8054.04,"text":"這一個 到底"},{"start":8054.04,"end":8056.04,"text":"可不可能承受嘛"},{"start":8056.04,"end":8058.04,"text":"這裡面可能會牽涉到就是說有關醫療法"},{"start":8058.04,"end":8060.04,"text":"這裡面相關的一些問題"},{"start":8060.04,"end":8062.04,"text":"因為這裡面我們可能會"},{"start":8062.04,"end":8064.04,"text":"會考慮到"},{"start":8064.04,"end":8066.04,"text":"他的這一個"},{"start":8066.04,"end":8068.04,"text":"受刑能力啦"},{"start":8068.04,"end":8070.04,"text":"所以你們現在已經有在"},{"start":8070.04,"end":8072.04,"text":"開始討論了嗎"},{"start":8072.04,"end":8074.04,"text":"這個我們必須要跟法務部"},{"start":8074.04,"end":8076.04,"text":"這邊再來研議"},{"start":8076.04,"end":8078.04,"text":"好 那就"},{"start":8078.04,"end":8080.04,"text":"這個案子當然就是說"},{"start":8080.04,"end":8082.04,"text":"很多人如果說"},{"start":8082.04,"end":8084.04,"text":"這個加害人"},{"start":8084.04,"end":8086.04,"text":"真的是非常的可惡"},{"start":8086.04,"end":8088.04,"text":"如果說性侵也好"},{"start":8088.04,"end":8090.04,"text":"或者是這個兒女"},{"start":8090.04,"end":8092.04,"text":"或者是這個"},{"start":8092.04,"end":8094.04,"text":"詐騙 詐欺"},{"start":8094.04,"end":8096.04,"text":"那這個都會讓所有被害人"},{"start":8096.04,"end":8098.04,"text":"或者是一般的民眾看了之後"},{"start":8098.04,"end":8100.04,"text":"都會覺得非常的氣憤"},{"start":8100.04,"end":8102.04,"text":"就是希望能夠重刑"},{"start":8102.04,"end":8104.04,"text":"這個應該多數人都會覺得"},{"start":8104.04,"end":8106.04,"text":"這樣子 那當然就是說"},{"start":8106.04,"end":8108.04,"text":"如果這個公投成案之後"},{"start":8108.04,"end":8110.04,"text":"那後續不論是"},{"start":8110.04,"end":8112.04,"text":"法務部也好 衛福部也好"},{"start":8112.04,"end":8114.04,"text":"都要有可能要"},{"start":8114.04,"end":8116.04,"text":"做一些這個分析"},{"start":8116.04,"end":8118.04,"text":"或者是可能如果"},{"start":8118.04,"end":8120.04,"text":"這個要開始編型"},{"start":8120.04,"end":8122.04,"text":"那你們要做什麼樣的這個"},{"start":8122.04,"end":8124.04,"text":"一些動作 或者是"},{"start":8124.04,"end":8126.04,"text":"可能你們要去分析什麼"},{"start":8126.04,"end":8128.04,"text":"也許你們現在就要開始動"},{"start":8128.04,"end":8130.04,"text":"就是要開始這個"},{"start":8130.04,"end":8132.04,"text":"研擬了啦"},{"start":8132.04,"end":8134.04,"text":"另外我想請教就是說剛剛有一些委員"},{"start":8134.04,"end":8136.04,"text":"有特別提到"},{"start":8136.04,"end":8138.04,"text":"譬如說我們這個"},{"start":8138.04,"end":8140.04,"text":"性侵害防治法當中"},{"start":8140.04,"end":8142.04,"text":"就是性犯罪"},{"start":8142.04,"end":8144.04,"text":"譬如說他處罰"},{"start":8144.04,"end":8146.04,"text":"那也接受司法的這個制裁"},{"start":8146.04,"end":8148.04,"text":"那出獄之後可能會"},{"start":8148.04,"end":8150.04,"text":"遭到永久性的社會標籤"},{"start":8150.04,"end":8152.04,"text":"那我是認為就是說"},{"start":8152.04,"end":8154.04,"text":"像類似這樣的狀況"},{"start":8154.04,"end":8156.04,"text":"可能會導致"},{"start":8156.04,"end":8158.04,"text":"譬如說更生"},{"start":8158.04,"end":8160.04,"text":"他要回復到社會的話"},{"start":8160.04,"end":8162.04,"text":"就是進到社會的話會更困難"},{"start":8162.04,"end":8164.04,"text":"那第二個的話"},{"start":8164.04,"end":8166.04,"text":"也許他會增加這個"},{"start":8166.04,"end":8168.04,"text":"再犯的機率"},{"start":8168.04,"end":8170.04,"text":"就是說這個社會都已經不容許我"},{"start":8170.04,"end":8172.04,"text":"譬如說他已經更生了"},{"start":8172.04,"end":8174.04,"text":"那社會不容許他"},{"start":8174.04,"end":8176.04,"text":"再進到就融入這個"},{"start":8176.04,"end":8178.04,"text":"社會當中 也許他"},{"start":8178.04,"end":8180.04,"text":"再犯的機會會更高"},{"start":8180.04,"end":8182.04,"text":"另外就是說這個犯罪的狀況"},{"start":8182.04,"end":8184.04,"text":"可能就是"},{"start":8184.04,"end":8186.04,"text":"加害人他會"},{"start":8186.04,"end":8188.04,"text":"這個被害人可能就是他周遭的"},{"start":8188.04,"end":8190.04,"text":"周遭的朋友或者是"},{"start":8190.04,"end":8192.04,"text":"這個親人"},{"start":8192.04,"end":8194.04,"text":"通常都是熟人"},{"start":8194.04,"end":8196.04,"text":"那如果今天公開"},{"start":8196.04,"end":8198.04,"text":"這個加害人的這個所有的資訊"},{"start":8198.04,"end":8200.04,"text":"那也許"},{"start":8200.04,"end":8202.04,"text":"被害人也會因為這樣子"},{"start":8202.04,"end":8204.04,"text":"被暴露 會被暴露"},{"start":8204.04,"end":8206.04,"text":"那造成這個被害人"},{"start":8206.04,"end":8208.04,"text":"惡毒的一個傷害"},{"start":8208.04,"end":8210.04,"text":"所以我想請教就是說"},{"start":8210.04,"end":8212.04,"text":"衛福部針對這個就是"},{"start":8212.04,"end":8214.04,"text":"犯罪防治"},{"start":8214.04,"end":8216.04,"text":"那被害人的這個保護"},{"start":8216.04,"end":8218.04,"text":"那你們要怎麼去取得這個平衡"},{"start":8218.04,"end":8220.04,"text":"我首先兩個問題"},{"start":8220.04,"end":8222.04,"text":"第一個就是剛剛委員所說"},{"start":8222.04,"end":8224.04,"text":"那邊刑的問題"},{"start":8224.04,"end":8226.04,"text":"我還是必須要重申一下就是說"},{"start":8226.04,"end":8228.04,"text":"根據醫療法 所謂醫療的部分"},{"start":8228.04,"end":8230.04,"text":"其實主要是指治療 矯正或預防"},{"start":8230.04,"end":8232.04,"text":"人體疾病傷害等等這些"},{"start":8232.04,"end":8234.04,"text":"那這裡面如果有牽涉到"},{"start":8234.04,"end":8236.04,"text":"就是有關於這個邊刑的"},{"start":8236.04,"end":8238.04,"text":"諮詢方式還有體況評估"},{"start":8238.04,"end":8240.04,"text":"這個可能還是比較屬於刑罰政策"},{"start":8240.04,"end":8242.04,"text":"所以這個可能比較"},{"start":8242.04,"end":8244.04,"text":"還是適合法務部他的回答"},{"start":8244.04,"end":8246.04,"text":"所以這是第一個回應"},{"start":8246.04,"end":8248.04,"text":"所以剛剛所說就是說"},{"start":8248.04,"end":8250.04,"text":"我們現在目前如果高風險性侵害犯罪"},{"start":8250.04,"end":8252.04,"text":"加害人 那我們之前其實我們有"},{"start":8252.04,"end":8254.04,"text":"跟這個專家學者這邊來討論"},{"start":8254.04,"end":8256.04,"text":"現在目前老實說"},{"start":8256.04,"end":8258.04,"text":"還沒有一個一定的定論 原因在於"},{"start":8258.04,"end":8260.04,"text":"兩個 第一個就是說你到底"},{"start":8260.04,"end":8262.04,"text":"就是資訊公"},{"start":8262.04,"end":8264.04,"text":"你把它資訊公開"},{"start":8264.04,"end":8266.04,"text":"跟加害人"},{"start":8265.83,"end":8267.83,"text":"降低罪犯率 這個中間有沒有一定的因果關係"},{"start":8267.83,"end":8269.83,"text":"老實說到目前國外的"},{"start":8269.83,"end":8271.83,"text":"相關的研究還認為沒有一定的考證"},{"start":8271.83,"end":8273.83,"text":"這是第一個就是說你用這種方式"},{"start":8273.83,"end":8275.83,"text":"是不是一定不會罪犯"},{"start":8275.83,"end":8277.83,"text":"這是第一個問題 另外第二個"},{"start":8277.83,"end":8279.83,"text":"就是我們剛剛還是有說就是說"},{"start":8280.8,"end":8282.8,"text":"一般通常會有這個加害"},{"start":8282.8,"end":8284.8,"text":"通常跟被害人之間"},{"start":8284.8,"end":8286.8,"text":"通常都是熟識"},{"start":8286.8,"end":8288.8,"text":"那我們這裡面還是要就是說你現在把它公佈"},{"start":8288.8,"end":8290.8,"text":"那人家一定暗圖所計"},{"start":8291.92,"end":8293.92,"text":"所以這裡面"},{"start":8293.38,"end":8295.38,"text":"就是說"},{"start":8294.48,"end":8296.48,"text":"會不會對被害人反而造成"},{"start":8296.48,"end":8298.48,"text":"惡毒傷害 而且說來聽去"},{"start":8298.48,"end":8300.48,"text":"就被公審 那我覺得這個"},{"start":8300.48,"end":8302.48,"text":"就成如 我們也知道就是說"},{"start":8302.48,"end":8304.48,"text":"一定要 這一定要保護"},{"start":8304.48,"end":8306.48,"text":"可是這個保護會不會反而"},{"start":8306.48,"end":8308.48,"text":"因為這樣的一個措施反而他的"},{"start":8308.48,"end":8310.48,"text":"這一個"},{"start":8309.65,"end":8311.65,"text":"他的傷害反而更大"},{"start":8311.65,"end":8313.65,"text":"所以這個是我們認為就是說"},{"start":8313.65,"end":8315.65,"text":"在這個事情上面必須要來謹慎考慮"},{"start":8315.65,"end":8317.65,"text":"的一個原因"},{"start":8317.74,"end":8319.74,"text":"我也認為就是說"},{"start":8319.74,"end":8321.74,"text":"如果是公佈的話"},{"start":8321.74,"end":8323.74,"text":"當然我們認為就是說"},{"start":8323.74,"end":8325.74,"text":"這個加害人公佈 如果不去"},{"start":8325.74,"end":8327.74,"text":"考慮到被害人的話 也許我們會覺得說"},{"start":8327.74,"end":8329.74,"text":"把它公佈好"},{"start":8329.74,"end":8331.74,"text":"讓社會去"},{"start":8331.74,"end":8333.74,"text":"公審"},{"start":8333.74,"end":8335.74,"text":"可是另外一方面我們要再看到就是說"},{"start":8335.74,"end":8337.74,"text":"也許他的"},{"start":8337.74,"end":8339.74,"text":"這個被害人"},{"start":8339.74,"end":8341.74,"text":"就是他的親友 或者是他的"},{"start":8341.74,"end":8343.74,"text":"朋友 那如果是這樣子的話"},{"start":8343.74,"end":8345.74,"text":"會不會對這個被害人是惡毒的傷害"},{"start":8345.74,"end":8347.74,"text":"是是 沒錯"},{"start":8349.24,"end":8351.24,"text":"可能就是會去猜測"},{"start":8351.24,"end":8353.24,"text":"會去猜測"},{"start":8353.24,"end":8355.24,"text":"所以對被害人就是一個"},{"start":8355.24,"end":8357.24,"text":"這個傷害 沒錯"},{"start":8357.24,"end":8359.24,"text":"所以我覺得說這個"},{"start":8359.24,"end":8361.24,"text":"法案 就是任何的一個法條"},{"start":8361.24,"end":8363.24,"text":"要成立其實我覺得都要非常的"},{"start":8363.24,"end":8365.24,"text":"嚴謹 比較小心"},{"start":8365.24,"end":8367.24,"text":"當然就是說 很多委員"},{"start":8367.24,"end":8369.24,"text":"會認為就是說一定要公開"},{"start":8369.24,"end":8371.24,"text":"就是說要公佈"},{"start":8371.24,"end":8373.24,"text":"資訊公開 可是"},{"start":8373.24,"end":8375.24,"text":"有時候 我們再回過頭來講"},{"start":8375.24,"end":8377.24,"text":"如果說 剛剛這個次長"},{"start":8377.24,"end":8379.24,"text":"講的 如果這個公開"},{"start":8379.24,"end":8381.24,"text":"這個"},{"start":8381.24,"end":8383.24,"text":"這個加害人"},{"start":8383.24,"end":8385.24,"text":"那被害人可能暗圖所計就會被"},{"start":8385.24,"end":8387.24,"text":"也會連帶的也會被"},{"start":8387.24,"end":8389.24,"text":"被公開了啦"},{"start":8389.24,"end":8391.24,"text":"所以我覺得這個其實"},{"start":8391.24,"end":8393.24,"text":"真的要非常的審慎"},{"start":8393.24,"end":8395.24,"text":"真的要非常的審慎"},{"start":8395.24,"end":8397.24,"text":"這也是我們就是說 為什麼對這事情"},{"start":8397.24,"end":8399.24,"text":"我們覺得要謹慎為之的一個最主要原因"},{"start":8399.24,"end":8401.24,"text":"他造成"},{"start":8401.24,"end":8403.24,"text":"那個被害人的惡毒傷害"},{"start":8403.24,"end":8405.24,"text":"是 好 那另外就是說"},{"start":8405.24,"end":8407.24,"text":"其實這次的這個公投"},{"start":8407.24,"end":8409.24,"text":"承案的這個"},{"start":8409.24,"end":8411.24,"text":"有關邊刑的部分"},{"start":8411.24,"end":8413.24,"text":"其中有一項就是這個"},{"start":8413.24,"end":8415.24,"text":"詐騙"},{"start":8415.24,"end":8417.24,"text":"那當然我會認為就是說"},{"start":8417.24,"end":8419.24,"text":"詐騙的這部分"},{"start":8419.24,"end":8421.24,"text":"應該是要加強這個反詐騙"},{"start":8421.24,"end":8423.24,"text":"就是要加強反詐騙的一個宣導"},{"start":8423.24,"end":8425.24,"text":"這個"},{"start":8425.24,"end":8427.24,"text":"我覺得說 與其去"},{"start":8427.24,"end":8429.24,"text":"這個用邊刑"},{"start":8429.24,"end":8431.24,"text":"去編這個"},{"start":8431.24,"end":8433.24,"text":"加害人的話 其實我覺得就是不要"},{"start":8433.24,"end":8435.24,"text":"說被害人嘛 我覺得這樣"},{"start":8435.24,"end":8437.24,"text":"反而是更重要的"},{"start":8437.24,"end":8439.24,"text":"應該把所有的資源"},{"start":8439.24,"end":8441.24,"text":"加強在反詐騙"},{"start":8441.24,"end":8443.24,"text":"就是就詐騙這個部分"},{"start":8443.24,"end":8445.24,"text":"我覺得應該要把資源"},{"start":8445.24,"end":8447.24,"text":"投入在反詐騙的這個資訊的"},{"start":8447.24,"end":8449.24,"text":"讓更多人知道就是說"},{"start":8449.24,"end":8451.24,"text":"我要怎麼樣"},{"start":8451.24,"end":8453.24,"text":"就是預防被騙嘛"},{"start":8453.24,"end":8455.24,"text":"前幾天我看到"},{"start":8455.24,"end":8457.24,"text":"一位這個我們"},{"start":8457.24,"end":8459.24,"text":"雲林縣府的一個"},{"start":8459.24,"end":8461.24,"text":"政風的主任"},{"start":8461.24,"end":8463.24,"text":"他竟然也會被騙"},{"start":8463.24,"end":8465.24,"text":"136萬"},{"start":8465.24,"end":8467.24,"text":"所以我覺得說反而是應該"},{"start":8467.24,"end":8469.24,"text":"要讓更多的資訊"},{"start":8469.24,"end":8471.24,"text":"你可能被騙的樣態"},{"start":8471.24,"end":8473.24,"text":"非常的多"},{"start":8473.24,"end":8475.24,"text":"應該再讓這些資訊再公開"},{"start":8475.24,"end":8477.24,"text":"然後做更多的一個宣導"},{"start":8477.24,"end":8479.24,"text":"更重要"},{"start":8479.24,"end":8481.24,"text":"那接下來我想請教"},{"start":8481.24,"end":8483.24,"text":"就剛剛"},{"start":8483.24,"end":8485.24,"text":"那個部長有特別提到就是說"},{"start":8485.24,"end":8487.24,"text":"那個市長有特別提到"},{"start":8487.24,"end":8489.24,"text":"就是說我們如果"},{"start":8489.24,"end":8491.24,"text":"11月28號這個公投"},{"start":8491.24,"end":8493.24,"text":"這個邊行然後陳案之後"},{"start":8493.24,"end":8495.24,"text":"那後續不論是衛福部也好"},{"start":8495.24,"end":8497.24,"text":"或法務部也好"},{"start":8497.24,"end":8499.24,"text":"可能針對這部分未來要去執行"},{"start":8499.24,"end":8501.24,"text":"那可能"},{"start":8501.24,"end":8503.24,"text":"有一些相關的"},{"start":8503.24,"end":8505.24,"text":"要去做一些研析"},{"start":8505.24,"end":8507.24,"text":"可能就是說研究分析"},{"start":8507.24,"end":8509.24,"text":"那我想剛剛"},{"start":8509.24,"end":8511.24,"text":"市長有特別提到衛福部的部分"},{"start":8511.24,"end":8513.24,"text":"那我想請教就是"},{"start":8513.24,"end":8515.24,"text":"就法務部的部分"},{"start":8515.24,"end":8517.24,"text":"因為我們一直講說我們就是"},{"start":8517.24,"end":8519.24,"text":"可能學習他們的這個"},{"start":8519.24,"end":8521.24,"text":"就是邊行"},{"start":8521.24,"end":8523.24,"text":"那這個邊行可能會讓"},{"start":8523.24,"end":8525.24,"text":"這個犯罪率減少"},{"start":8525.24,"end":8527.24,"text":"很多人會覺得是這樣子"},{"start":8527.24,"end":8529.24,"text":"可是我們就整體來講的話"},{"start":8529.24,"end":8531.24,"text":"新加坡雖然有這個邊行"},{"start":8531.24,"end":8533.24,"text":"某一部分可能減少"},{"start":8533.24,"end":8535.24,"text":"可是就整體的這個"},{"start":8535.24,"end":8537.24,"text":"治安來講其實沒有"},{"start":8537.24,"end":8539.24,"text":"沒有比台灣好"},{"start":8539.24,"end":8541.24,"text":"所以我也希望就是說"},{"start":8541.24,"end":8543.24,"text":"就衛福部跟法務部的部分"},{"start":8543.24,"end":8545.24,"text":"衛福部跟法務部的部分"},{"start":8545.24,"end":8547.24,"text":"衛福部跟法務部的部分"},{"start":8547.24,"end":8549.24,"text":"未來如果這個成案之後"},{"start":8549.24,"end":8551.24,"text":"那法務部的部分你們要做的"},{"start":8551.24,"end":8553.24,"text":"工作是什麼是不是可以在"},{"start":8553.24,"end":8555.24,"text":"這個諮詢台"},{"start":8555.24,"end":8557.24,"text":"然後做一個報告"},{"start":8557.24,"end":8559.24,"text":"那另外就是說在公投之前"},{"start":8559.24,"end":8561.24,"text":"是不是也讓更多的民眾"},{"start":8561.24,"end":8563.24,"text":"來了解"},{"start":8562.73,"end":8564.73,"text":"對"},{"start":8564.41,"end":8566.41,"text":"這邊是不是可以去"},{"start":8566.41,"end":8568.41,"text":"這個法務部是不是"},{"start":8572.92,"end":8574.92,"text":"委員好那法務部在這邊"},{"start":8574.92,"end":8576.92,"text":"做一個簡單的回應"},{"start":8576.92,"end":8578.92,"text":"其實邊行它涉及的是憲法"},{"start":8578.92,"end":8580.92,"text":"憲法人權跟公約的議題"},{"start":8580.92,"end":8582.92,"text":"那當然我們尊重"},{"start":8582.92,"end":8584.92,"text":"我們國家的民主法制"},{"start":8584.92,"end":8586.92,"text":"就是年底的公投的部分"},{"start":8586.92,"end":8588.92,"text":"那如果兩公約"},{"start":8588.92,"end":8590.92,"text":"已經內國法化"},{"start":8590.92,"end":8592.92,"text":"所以我們還是會依法行政"},{"start":8592.92,"end":8594.92,"text":"剛剛委員有提到關於新加坡的部分"},{"start":8594.92,"end":8596.92,"text":"其實新加坡在反詐這個"},{"start":8596.92,"end":8598.92,"text":"在詐騙打擊的這個部分"},{"start":8598.92,"end":8600.92,"text":"它不是只用這個"},{"start":8600.92,"end":8602.92,"text":"這個邊行或是提高刑責"},{"start":8602.92,"end":8604.92,"text":"這個單方面而已它其實"},{"start":8604.92,"end":8606.92,"text":"也採取了多項跨部會的整合機制"},{"start":8606.92,"end":8608.92,"text":"所以我們也是一樣的"},{"start":8608.92,"end":8610.92,"text":"我們的這個各個部會"},{"start":8610.92,"end":8612.92,"text":"也聯合起來在反詐"},{"start":8612.92,"end":8614.92,"text":"所以這個部分的話我們是"},{"start":8614.92,"end":8616.92,"text":"採取詐騙零容忍的立場"},{"start":8616.92,"end":8618.92,"text":"當然這個是一貫的立場"},{"start":8618.92,"end":8620.92,"text":"所以這個部分委員剛剛有提到"},{"start":8620.92,"end":8622.92,"text":"如果說年底的公投過後"},{"start":8622.92,"end":8624.92,"text":"我們當然會針對"},{"start":8624.92,"end":8626.92,"text":"年底公投的部分"},{"start":8626.92,"end":8628.92,"text":"我們會視公投的情況"},{"start":8628.92,"end":8630.92,"text":"結果然後我們一樣會"},{"start":8630.92,"end":8632.92,"text":"針對這個委員剛剛所提到的"},{"start":8632.92,"end":8634.92,"text":"邊行的這個部分的"},{"start":8634.92,"end":8636.92,"text":"還有相關的憲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當然你要封網一下"},{"start":9073.53,"end":9075.53,"text":"我們也是要通過NCC還有那個訴發部"},{"start":9075.53,"end":9077.53,"text":"訴發部也非常幫忙"},{"start":9077.53,"end":9079.53,"text":"他們整個就是屏蔽"},{"start":9079.53,"end":9081.53,"text":"但是那些他們也非常非常幫忙"},{"start":9081.53,"end":9083.53,"text":"那我現在先跟委員先講"},{"start":9083.53,"end":9085.53,"text":"報告一下就是說這裡面有一個很重要的問題"},{"start":9085.53,"end":9087.53,"text":"現在就是說那個所謂提示詞"},{"start":9087.53,"end":9089.53,"text":"關鍵字"},{"start":9089.53,"end":9091.53,"text":"那個東西確實是像委員說的"},{"start":9092.57,"end":9094.57,"text":"那不用多久了 又改了"},{"start":9094.57,"end":9096.57,"text":"你抓以後 AIP也更聰明"},{"start":9096.57,"end":9098.57,"text":"我跟你講 你要犯罪的人很聰明的啦"},{"start":9098.57,"end":9100.57,"text":"你現在 我們現在"},{"start":9100.57,"end":9102.57,"text":"譬如說我們打炸2.0"},{"start":9102.57,"end":9104.57,"text":"你2.0你2.0又炸到都輸人了"},{"start":9104.57,"end":9106.57,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":9106.57,"end":9108.57,"text":"他們做生意的人都有一個Bitchnips 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我們也知道他的"},{"start":10017.15,"end":10019.15,"text":"case 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那次長應該知道"},{"start":10772.87,"end":10774.87,"text":"這是我們上一屆"},{"start":10774.87,"end":10776.87,"text":"本來我跟婦女團體"},{"start":10776.87,"end":10778.87,"text":"我們要的是專法"},{"start":10778.87,"end":10780.87,"text":"可是當時行政院覺得專法"},{"start":10780.87,"end":10782.87,"text":"就是可能太多法了"},{"start":10782.87,"end":10784.87,"text":"有些人從法律不同的見解"},{"start":10784.87,"end":10786.87,"text":"所以後來變成四法連防"},{"start":10786.87,"end":10788.87,"text":"那這個四法連防呢"},{"start":10788.87,"end":10790.87,"text":"所以我想我們後來就是"},{"start":10790.87,"end":10792.87,"text":"有刑法犯罪被害人保護法"},{"start":10792.87,"end":10794.87,"text":"性侵害犯罪防治法"},{"start":10794.87,"end":10796.87,"text":"兒少性剝削防治條例"},{"start":10796.87,"end":10798.87,"text":"修正通過"},{"start":10798.87,"end":10800.87,"text":"這是上一屆非常非常重要的"},{"start":10800.87,"end":10802.87,"text":"在性別暴力"},{"start":10802.87,"end":10804.87,"text":"特別是數位性暴力上的一個成果"},{"start":10804.87,"end":10806.87,"text":"沒錯"},{"start":10806.87,"end":10808.87,"text":"那我想"},{"start":10808.87,"end":10810.87,"text":"等一下下一頁"},{"start":10810.87,"end":10812.87,"text":"我想也恢復一下"},{"start":10812.87,"end":10814.87,"text":"大家的記憶"},{"start":10814.87,"end":10816.87,"text":"當時我跟婦女團體"},{"start":10816.87,"end":10818.87,"text":"跟我們很多的委員"},{"start":10818.87,"end":10820.87,"text":"我們爭取到的是"},{"start":10820.87,"end":10822.87,"text":"都能夠有社工的專業服務"},{"start":10822.87,"end":10824.87,"text":"那另外還有"},{"start":10824.87,"end":10826.87,"text":"家中刑責盈利"},{"start":10826.87,"end":10828.87,"text":"付費支付觀看的人"},{"start":10828.87,"end":10830.87,"text":"也有罪"},{"start":10830.87,"end":10832.87,"text":"那還有就是"},{"start":10832.87,"end":10834.87,"text":"無論是成人或是兒少"},{"start":10834.87,"end":10836.87,"text":"那要能夠保存"},{"start":10836.87,"end":10838.87,"text":"證據180天"},{"start":10838.87,"end":10840.87,"text":"那網站"},{"start":10840.87,"end":10842.87,"text":"也收到通知的時候必須下架"},{"start":10842.87,"end":10844.87,"text":"如果沒有做到"},{"start":10844.87,"end":10846.87,"text":"每次可以裁罰60萬"},{"start":10846.87,"end":10848.87,"text":"還可以暗次處罰"},{"start":10848.87,"end":10850.87,"text":"到寄出斷網"},{"start":10850.87,"end":10852.87,"text":"這是之前的部分"},{"start":10852.87,"end":10854.87,"text":"那我有看到"},{"start":10854.87,"end":10856.87,"text":"五月衛福部的預告草案"},{"start":10856.87,"end":10858.87,"text":"就是其中有幾個部分"},{"start":10858.87,"end":10860.87,"text":"一個部分就是關於網路"},{"start":10860.87,"end":10862.87,"text":"主動巡查的法律依據"},{"start":10862.87,"end":10864.87,"text":"那還有就是"},{"start":10864.87,"end":10866.87,"text":"應該要通知單位機關"},{"start":10866.87,"end":10868.87,"text":"等等這個記載的事項"},{"start":10868.87,"end":10870.87,"text":"那還有就是實現的部分"},{"start":10870.87,"end":10872.87,"text":"那這次要徵修影像"},{"start":10872.87,"end":10874.87,"text":"下架實現"},{"start":10874.87,"end":10876.87,"text":"還有主動巡查跟通知"},{"start":10876.87,"end":10878.87,"text":"那我覺得相當好"},{"start":10878.87,"end":10880.87,"text":"那今天要跟婦女團體長期的訴求"},{"start":10880.87,"end":10882.87,"text":"這要非常感謝那個範姻委員"},{"start":10882.87,"end":10884.87,"text":"跟很多婦女團體"},{"start":10884.87,"end":10886.87,"text":"對於這個案子的一個大力的推動跟支持"},{"start":10886.87,"end":10888.87,"text":"我想這個是應該要來推動"},{"start":10888.87,"end":10890.87,"text":"那我們還是肯定衛福部"},{"start":10890.87,"end":10892.87,"text":"就是說很快提出來"},{"start":10892.87,"end":10894.87,"text":"那但是我想今天"},{"start":10894.87,"end":10896.87,"text":"還是要就"},{"start":10896.87,"end":10898.87,"text":"我覺得還是可以再改善的部分"},{"start":10898.87,"end":10900.87,"text":"那跟次長請教"},{"start":10900.87,"end":10902.87,"text":"是不是能夠更進一步達到我們的訴求"},{"start":10902.87,"end":10904.87,"text":"我想我2021年"},{"start":10904.87,"end":10906.87,"text":"就提案比照"},{"start":10906.87,"end":10908.87,"text":"那既然兒少"},{"start":10908.87,"end":10910.87,"text":"影像下架可以修正為24小時"},{"start":10910.87,"end":10912.87,"text":"那當時我們通過的是72小時"},{"start":10912.87,"end":10914.87,"text":"那因為當時"},{"start":10914.87,"end":10916.87,"text":"呂次長還不是次長"},{"start":10916.87,"end":10918.87,"text":"那我想跟次長講"},{"start":10918.87,"end":10920.87,"text":"當時他們講有一些困難"},{"start":10920.87,"end":10922.87,"text":"所以對我們來講是一個妥協"},{"start":10922.87,"end":10924.87,"text":"可是您可以知道就是說"},{"start":10924.87,"end":10926.87,"text":"性影像在網路上"},{"start":10926.87,"end":10928.87,"text":"對一個成人"},{"start":10928.87,"end":10930.87,"text":"尤其是女性"},{"start":10930.87,"end":10932.87,"text":"那當然對男性也會傷害"},{"start":10932.87,"end":10934.87,"text":"其實傷害是非常大的"},{"start":10934.87,"end":10936.87,"text":"我們可以做到24小時"},{"start":10936.87,"end":10938.87,"text":"那為什麼三年後"},{"start":10938.87,"end":10940.87,"text":"我們來修的時候這部分"},{"start":10940.87,"end":10942.87,"text":"不能夠一起改善"},{"start":10942.87,"end":10944.87,"text":"就是針對成人的部分"},{"start":10944.87,"end":10946.87,"text":"這是我的第一個問題喔影像下架的時間"},{"start":10946.87,"end":10948.87,"text":"傷害已經造成我們是"},{"start":10948.87,"end":10950.87,"text":"要縮小這個傷害"},{"start":10950.87,"end":10952.87,"text":"能做到我覺得就應該要請"},{"start":10952.87,"end":10954.87,"text":"網路平台要能夠一起努力配合"},{"start":10954.87,"end":10956.87,"text":"那另外"},{"start":10956.87,"end":10958.87,"text":"那這一次"},{"start":10958.87,"end":10960.87,"text":"我也希望說通知業者"},{"start":10960.87,"end":10962.87,"text":"下架的程序"},{"start":10962.87,"end":10964.8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我那個剛剛委員提出"},{"start":11034.07,"end":11036.07,"text":"三個槌詢嘛 我先"},{"start":11036.07,"end":11038.07,"text":"一個一個來回答 您剛剛所說的"},{"start":11038.07,"end":11040.07,"text":"這個是確實我們郭彩龍司長"},{"start":11040.07,"end":11042.07,"text":"他也已經說到"},{"start":11042.07,"end":11044.07,"text":"那我們預計明年八月會來提出"},{"start":11044.07,"end":11046.07,"text":"那這裡面有一個比較大的問題"},{"start":11046.07,"end":11048.07,"text":"就像陳如剛剛委員所槌詢的"},{"start":11048.07,"end":11050.07,"text":"我們現在目前是針對兒少"},{"start":11050.07,"end":11052.07,"text":"那因為這裡面是他被保護的對象"},{"start":11052.07,"end":11054.07,"text":"那至於陳忍裡面 這裡面最主要有一個問題就是說"},{"start":11054.07,"end":11056.07,"text":"他有沒有牽涉到就是說"},{"start":11056.07,"end":11058.07,"text":"他自己的意願問題"},{"start":11057.97,"end":11059.97,"text":"有沒有牽涉到他的意願問題"},{"start":11059.97,"end":11061.97,"text":"如果說"},{"start":11061.86,"end":11063.86,"text":"如果說有 如果醫院可以確認的話"},{"start":11063.86,"end":11065.86,"text":"那我們當然"},{"start":11065.86,"end":11067.86,"text":"我們當然就會來進行相關的一個"},{"start":11067.86,"end":11069.86,"text":"的一個主動 主動的一個"},{"start":11069.86,"end":11071.86,"text":"的一個查查 了解"},{"start":11071.86,"end":11073.86,"text":"那我想成人性影像當然"},{"start":11073.86,"end":11075.86,"text":"就是說有所謂的"},{"start":11075.86,"end":11077.86,"text":"如果是有共識的 或者是"},{"start":11077.86,"end":11079.86,"text":"沒有共識的 沒有共識 當然這就是"},{"start":11079.86,"end":11081.86,"text":"一個所謂的性暴力 數位性暴力"},{"start":11081.86,"end":11083.86,"text":"對對對 沒錯 那就是這部分"},{"start":11083.86,"end":11085.86,"text":"我覺得這個疑義是可以釐清的"},{"start":11085.86,"end":11087.86,"text":"因為理論上商業的他一定"},{"start":11087.86,"end":11089.86,"text":"需要註明這個是自願的"},{"start":11089.86,"end":11091.86,"text":"對 沒錯 商業的部分的話"},{"start":11091.86,"end":11093.86,"text":"那就沒問題了 可是我們現在所講的就是說"},{"start":11093.86,"end":11095.86,"text":"我們不能假設那些"},{"start":11095.86,"end":11097.86,"text":"性影像就是"},{"start":11097.86,"end":11099.86,"text":"合意的行為 同意的行為"},{"start":11099.86,"end":11101.86,"text":"那所以我覺得為何"},{"start":11101.86,"end":11103.86,"text":"一滿18歲就不一樣了"},{"start":11103.86,"end":11105.86,"text":"這件事情蠻需要思考的"},{"start":11105.86,"end":11107.86,"text":"因為我們可以看一下"},{"start":11107.86,"end":11109.86,"text":"2025年整體的"},{"start":11109.86,"end":11111.86,"text":"申訴案件中"},{"start":11111.86,"end":11113.86,"text":"其實被害人是主要受害者"},{"start":11113.86,"end":11115.86,"text":"的大宗耶"},{"start":11115.86,"end":11117.86,"text":"所以就是申訴案件有"},{"start":11117.86,"end":11119.86,"text":"2478件被申訴"},{"start":11119.86,"end":11121.86,"text":"網址6687個"},{"start":11121.86,"end":11123.86,"text":"被害人1521個裡面"},{"start":11123.86,"end":11125.86,"text":"成人是"},{"start":11125.86,"end":11127.86,"text":"佔了82.8%"},{"start":11127.86,"end":11129.86,"text":"也就是說數位性暴力"},{"start":11129.86,"end":11131.86,"text":"受害者"},{"start":11131.86,"end":11133.86,"text":"而少17% 當然一定要保護"},{"start":11133.86,"end":11135.86,"text":"可是成人82.8%"},{"start":11135.86,"end":11137.86,"text":"我是覺得"},{"start":11137.86,"end":11139.86,"text":"不要因為他是成年人"},{"start":11139.86,"end":11141.86,"text":"就沒有辦法得到這樣的保護"},{"start":11141.86,"end":11143.86,"text":"所以也跟次長"},{"start":11143.86,"end":11145.86,"text":"分享一下"},{"start":11145.86,"end":11147.86,"text":"2016年就是今年美國已經立法"},{"start":11147.86,"end":11149.86,"text":"把非合意散佈性影像"},{"start":11149.86,"end":11151.86,"text":"跟所謂的deepfade"},{"start":11151.86,"end":11153.86,"text":"列為聯邦犯罪"},{"start":11153.86,"end":11155.86,"text":"下架實現"},{"start":11155.86,"end":11157.86,"text":"是48小時內"},{"start":11157.86,"end":11159.86,"text":"那所以呢"},{"start":11159.86,"end":11161.86,"text":"我們現在這個72小時如果跟美國"},{"start":11161.86,"end":11163.86,"text":"比的話 其實已經"},{"start":11163.86,"end":11165.86,"text":"不一樣了 而且他這個"},{"start":11165.86,"end":11167.86,"text":"當成是聯邦犯罪的話"},{"start":11167.86,"end":11169.86,"text":"那他的處理方式積極地巡邏"},{"start":11169.86,"end":11171.86,"text":"那台灣是不是也能夠跟上"},{"start":11171.86,"end":11173.86,"text":"那這是我今天的質詢"},{"start":11173.86,"end":11175.86,"text":"想要問的"},{"start":11176.78,"end":11178.78,"text":"非常感謝我 那我能不能簡單"},{"start":11178.78,"end":11180.78,"text":"也回答一下"},{"start":11180.78,"end":11182.78,"text":"剛剛就有關電子"},{"start":11182.78,"end":11184.78,"text":"有關電子的部分 我們現在目前"},{"start":11184.78,"end":11186.78,"text":"我們會來朝這個方向"},{"start":11186.78,"end":11188.78,"text":"這個也應該是數位時代"},{"start":11188.78,"end":11190.78,"text":"我覺得這個應該是"},{"start":11190.78,"end":11192.78,"text":"要來朝這個方向"},{"start":11192.78,"end":11194.78,"text":"那所以魏福部這三點 就是我剛剛講的"},{"start":11194.78,"end":11196.78,"text":"其實就這三點 是不是能夠研議"},{"start":11196.78,"end":11198.78,"text":"我們在這一波就一起處理"},{"start":11198.78,"end":11200.78,"text":"第一個 成人性私密影像"},{"start":11200.78,"end":11202.78,"text":"比照兒少 他已經來"},{"start":11202.78,"end":11204.78,"text":"申訴了 要求了"},{"start":11204.78,"end":11206.78,"text":"要求短下架實現"},{"start":11206.78,"end":11208.78,"text":"那讓數位平台也能夠"},{"start":11208.78,"end":11210.78,"text":"保護到 就是我們"},{"start":11210.78,"end":11212.78,"text":"上一屆原本的要求"},{"start":11212.78,"end":11214.78,"text":"是24小時 那後來"},{"start":11214.78,"end":11216.78,"text":"平台一直希望不要"},{"start":11216.78,"end":11218.78,"text":"這麼的 你知道 對他們來講"},{"start":11218.78,"end":11220.78,"text":"這是加重工作負擔"},{"start":11220.78,"end":11222.78,"text":"可是他已知受傷害 你讓他"},{"start":11222.78,"end":11224.78,"text":"一天或是三天受傷害"},{"start":11224.78,"end":11226.78,"text":"我們當然是希望越少越好"},{"start":11226.78,"end":11228.78,"text":"所以第一個 能不能比照兒少"},{"start":11228.78,"end":11230.78,"text":"那第二個 我覺得比較容易做到的"},{"start":11230.78,"end":11232.78,"text":"就是通知業者"},{"start":11232.78,"end":11234.78,"text":"短下架 增加電子文件的方式"},{"start":11234.78,"end":11236.78,"text":"縮減被害人等待時間"},{"start":11236.78,"end":11238.78,"text":"那第三點"},{"start":11238.78,"end":11240.78,"text":"我覺得其實你們也是"},{"start":11240.78,"end":11242.78,"text":"可以做到的 只要您處理的"},{"start":11242.78,"end":11244.78,"text":"那個所謂的自願跟"},{"start":11244.78,"end":11246.78,"text":"就是未經同意的這部分"},{"start":11246.78,"end":11248.78,"text":"能不能一起把主動"},{"start":11248.78,"end":11250.78,"text":"宣查範圍納入成人性私密影像"},{"start":11250.78,"end":11252.78,"text":"那這三點"},{"start":11252.78,"end":11254.78,"text":"那個次長可以"},{"start":11254.78,"end":11256.78,"text":"就是評估 那能不能"},{"start":11256.78,"end":11258.78,"text":"在這一波就一起處理嗎"},{"start":11258.78,"end":11260.78,"text":"包委 那個我們現在目前第三點"},{"start":11260.78,"end":11262.78,"text":"我們這個來聯誼"},{"start":11262.78,"end":11264.78,"text":"那第一點我跟委員報告"},{"start":11264.78,"end":11266.78,"text":"現在目前就是說 有關成人"},{"start":11266.78,"end":11268.78,"text":"有關性侵害的部分"},{"start":11268.78,"end":11270.78,"text":"他的私密影像現在就是24小時"},{"start":11270.78,"end":11272.78,"text":"這個沒問題 可是現在目前就是說"},{"start":11273.56,"end":11275.56,"text":"對 但你現在目前"},{"start":11275.56,"end":11277.56,"text":"委員目前所說最重要是那個影像"},{"start":11277.56,"end":11279.56,"text":"那個私密影像的部分"},{"start":11279.56,"end":11281.56,"text":"這個我們是不是 我們來研議好不好"},{"start":11281.56,"end":11283.56,"text":"好 你現在這第五條"},{"start":11283.56,"end":11285.56,"text":"之三 就是下面寫的是"},{"start":11285.56,"end":11287.56,"text":"72小時耶"},{"start":11287.56,"end":11289.56,"text":"那這次既然已經做到"},{"start":11289.56,"end":11291.56,"text":"這次就可以一起修 是這個意思嗎"},{"start":11292.11,"end":11294.11,"text":"對 這個我們還是"},{"start":11294.11,"end":11296.11,"text":"那個是性侵害犯罪"},{"start":11296.11,"end":11298.11,"text":"那是24小時 可是刑法那個是"},{"start":11298.11,"end":11300.11,"text":"72小時 對"},{"start":11300.11,"end":11302.11,"text":"那這兒少的話是"},{"start":11302.11,"end":11304.11,"text":"全部都是72小時 好不好"},{"start":11304.11,"end":11306.11,"text":"那我們釐清一下 所以這三點"},{"start":11306.11,"end":11308.11,"text":"那這個次長"},{"start":11308.11,"end":11310.11,"text":"可以多少時間內可以給本席"},{"start":11310.11,"end":11312.11,"text":"一個初步的報告呢"},{"start":11312.32,"end":11314.32,"text":"能不能再一個月 好不好"},{"start":11314.32,"end":11316.32,"text":"一個月後 一個月後 好"},{"start":11316.32,"end":11318.32,"text":"那就拜託次長了 一起加油"},{"start":11318.32,"end":11320.32,"text":"感謝范委員 關心 謝謝"},{"start":11321.18,"end":11323.18,"text":"那接下來請楊瓊茵委員發言"},{"start":11334.72,"end":11337.72,"text":"謝謝主席楊瓊發言 我們邀請衛福部"},{"start":11337.72,"end":11339.72,"text":"呃 旅次長"},{"start":11343.09,"end":11344.09,"text":"楊委員午安"},{"start":11362.37,"end":11364.37,"text":"那夠不夠重"},{"start":11364.37,"end":11366.37,"text":"我們反而是要問"},{"start":11366.37,"end":11368.37,"text":"被害人"},{"start":11367.94,"end":11369.94,"text":"保得住嗎"},{"start":11369.94,"end":11371.94,"text":"那影像能不能下架"},{"start":11371.94,"end":11373.94,"text":"加害人找不找得到"},{"start":11373.94,"end":11375.94,"text":"還有下一個孩子"},{"start":11375.94,"end":11377.94,"text":"能不能被提前保護"},{"start":11377.94,"end":11379.94,"text":"我想這是今天我們大家"},{"start":11379.94,"end":11381.94,"text":"提出討論的"},{"start":11381.94,"end":11383.94,"text":"一個重點喔"},{"start":11383.94,"end":11385.94,"text":"那麼同時呢 我們現在看到"},{"start":11385.94,"end":11387.94,"text":"這個暴力"},{"start":11387.94,"end":11389.94,"text":"目前的這個犯罪方式"},{"start":11389.94,"end":11391.94,"text":"它已經不是只有"},{"start":11391.94,"end":11393.94,"text":"傳統的一對一"},{"start":11393.94,"end":11395.94,"text":"的一個犯罪喔"},{"start":11395.94,"end":11397.94,"text":"我們已經進入到網路化"},{"start":11397.94,"end":11399.94,"text":"匿名化 甚至是"},{"start":11399.94,"end":11401.94,"text":"跨境化"},{"start":11401.94,"end":11403.94,"text":"甚至AI深層化的一個時代"},{"start":11403.94,"end":11405.94,"text":"就那個Debate的那個問題"},{"start":11405.94,"end":11407.94,"text":"所以因此我們對於被害人的保護"},{"start":11407.94,"end":11409.94,"text":"我們如果"},{"start":11409.94,"end":11411.94,"text":"還是停留在案件"},{"start":11411.94,"end":11413.94,"text":"發生之後"},{"start":11413.94,"end":11415.94,"text":"這是沒有辦法"},{"start":11415.94,"end":11417.94,"text":"去保護的 沒錯"},{"start":11417.94,"end":11419.94,"text":"所以目前我們的狀態 是否還停滯在"},{"start":11419.94,"end":11421.94,"text":"犯罪"},{"start":11421.94,"end":11423.94,"text":"案件發生之後"},{"start":11423.94,"end":11425.94,"text":"我們正因為就是說"},{"start":11425.94,"end":11427.94,"text":"現在真的必須要與時俱進"},{"start":11427.94,"end":11429.94,"text":"網路時代 所以我們現在目前就是有一個"},{"start":11429.94,"end":11431.94,"text":"所謂的網路巡查"},{"start":11431.94,"end":11433.94,"text":"網路的這個影像巡查"},{"start":11433.94,"end":11435.94,"text":"那個就是說主動出擊"},{"start":11435.94,"end":11437.94,"text":"這個待會本席會跟你討論喔"},{"start":11437.94,"end":11439.94,"text":"因為在性侵害案件當中"},{"start":11439.94,"end":11441.94,"text":"我們認為最可怕的"},{"start":11441.94,"end":11443.94,"text":"它就是可能"},{"start":11443.94,"end":11445.94,"text":"存在多次的傷害"},{"start":11445.94,"end":11447.94,"text":"這個是最可"},{"start":11447.94,"end":11449.94,"text":"這個對這個被害人來講"},{"start":11449.94,"end":11451.94,"text":"是非常非常的可怕"},{"start":11451.94,"end":11453.94,"text":"長期的心理上的那種"},{"start":11453.94,"end":11455.94,"text":"這個陰影"},{"start":11455.94,"end":11457.94,"text":"所以因此呢"},{"start":11457.94,"end":11459.94,"text":"也就是說你案件發生的時候"},{"start":11459.94,"end":11461.94,"text":"他第一次傷害"},{"start":11461.94,"end":11463.94,"text":"但是如果案件進入到"},{"start":11463.94,"end":11465.94,"text":"司法程序之後"},{"start":11465.94,"end":11467.94,"text":"那這個被害人"},{"start":11467.94,"end":11469.94,"text":"還是不斷的要去重複的"},{"start":11469.94,"end":11471.94,"text":"去敘述"},{"start":11471.94,"end":11473.94,"text":"而且重複的接受詢問"},{"start":11473.94,"end":11475.94,"text":"甚至面對到"},{"start":11475.94,"end":11477.94,"text":"各自外洩"},{"start":11477.94,"end":11479.94,"text":"影像再散佈以及"},{"start":11479.94,"end":11481.94,"text":"網路霸凌的這個現象"},{"start":11481.94,"end":11483.94,"text":"所以因此我要請教"},{"start":11483.94,"end":11485.94,"text":"現在我們因為被害人"},{"start":11485.94,"end":11487.94,"text":"從通報開始"},{"start":11487.94,"end":11489.94,"text":"到接受社工"},{"start":11489.94,"end":11491.94,"text":"以及心理"},{"start":11493.31,"end":11495.31,"text":"以及醫療"},{"start":11495.31,"end":11497.31,"text":"司法的服務"},{"start":11497.31,"end":11499.31,"text":"有沒有單一窗口"},{"start":11499.31,"end":11501.31,"text":"包委員我們現在目前就是各地方政府"},{"start":11501.31,"end":11503.31,"text":"社會局裡面都有一個就業院的家庭暴力防治中心"},{"start":11503.31,"end":11505.31,"text":"委員我過去也在台中擔任社會局局長"},{"start":11505.31,"end":11507.31,"text":"這個我們各個地方政府"},{"start":11507.31,"end":11509.31,"text":"都會有這一個單一窗口"},{"start":11509.31,"end":11511.31,"text":"就陳如委員剛剛說一旦從通報開始"},{"start":11511.31,"end":11513.31,"text":"一連串的"},{"start":11513.31,"end":11515.31,"text":"他要陪同去這一個"},{"start":11515.31,"end":11517.31,"text":"去醫院去做這個"},{"start":11517.31,"end":11519.31,"text":"整個那個證據收集"},{"start":11519.31,"end":11521.31,"text":"還有整個相關的心理醫療"},{"start":11521.31,"end":11523.31,"text":"這個我們全部都是"},{"start":11523.31,"end":11525.31,"text":"當然我們同樣在地方"},{"start":11525.31,"end":11527.31,"text":"政府做過事"},{"start":11527.31,"end":11529.31,"text":"有了解這些同仁很辛苦"},{"start":11529.31,"end":11531.31,"text":"案件很多"},{"start":11531.31,"end":11533.31,"text":"這是我們很難過的"},{"start":11533.31,"end":11535.31,"text":"人數絕對不夠"},{"start":11535.31,"end":11537.31,"text":"所以在這樣的情況之下我們還要"},{"start":11537.31,"end":11539.31,"text":"去討論他平均"},{"start":11539.31,"end":11541.31,"text":"這個被害者"},{"start":11541.31,"end":11543.31,"text":"他要接觸到幾個"},{"start":11543.31,"end":11545.31,"text":"不同單位"},{"start":11545.31,"end":11547.31,"text":"他還要重複的來說明"},{"start":11547.31,"end":11549.31,"text":"他這個案情"},{"start":11549.31,"end":11551.31,"text":"所以我個人認為我們是不是"},{"start":11551.31,"end":11553.31,"text":"應該在法律上面"},{"start":11553.31,"end":11555.31,"text":"來達成有專業"},{"start":11555.31,"end":11557.31,"text":"人士的一個陪同"},{"start":11557.31,"end":11559.31,"text":"他一次講足了"},{"start":11559.31,"end":11561.31,"text":"這一些的內容"},{"start":11561.31,"end":11563.31,"text":"相關的單位就可以從"},{"start":11563.31,"end":11565.31,"text":"這一個部分去取得"},{"start":11565.31,"end":11567.31,"text":"他的資料"},{"start":11567.31,"end":11569.31,"text":"不要讓被害人一講再講"},{"start":11569.31,"end":11571.31,"text":"一傷害再傷害"},{"start":11571.31,"end":11573.31,"text":"你的看法呢"},{"start":11573.31,"end":11575.31,"text":"包委我完全同意啦"},{"start":11575.31,"end":11577.31,"text":"這個相應說就是說遇到這種不幸"},{"start":11577.31,"end":11579.31,"text":"對一個人"},{"start":11579.31,"end":11581.31,"text":"被害者莫大的傷害"},{"start":11581.31,"end":11583.31,"text":"我們的原則一定就是說"},{"start":11583.31,"end":11585.31,"text":"一次陳述就好"},{"start":11585.31,"end":11587.31,"text":"所以本席要跟你討論的是"},{"start":11587.31,"end":11589.31,"text":"專業人士的一個陪同"},{"start":11589.31,"end":11591.31,"text":"尤其在兒童身心障礙的人"},{"start":11593.63,"end":11595.63,"text":"必須要有專業人士的一個陪同"},{"start":11595.63,"end":11597.63,"text":"是否如此"},{"start":11599.11,"end":11601.11,"text":"是否如此"},{"start":11601.11,"end":11603.11,"text":"我們現在目前在法律裡面"},{"start":11603.11,"end":11605.11,"text":"我們也是這樣的規定"},{"start":11605.11,"end":11607.11,"text":"法律上面寫著"},{"start":11607.11,"end":11609.11,"text":"被害人保護"},{"start":11609.11,"end":11611.11,"text":"這是我們的目的我們的精神跟我們的目標"},{"start":11611.11,"end":11613.11,"text":"但是你的專業人士"},{"start":11613.11,"end":11615.11,"text":"你說必須要陪同"},{"start":11615.11,"end":11617.11,"text":"夠嗎你有盤點嗎"},{"start":11616.58,"end":11618.58,"text":"夠嗎全國夠嗎"},{"start":11618.58,"end":11620.58,"text":"盤點嗎"},{"start":11620.58,"end":11622.58,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11622.94,"end":11624.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11624.94,"end":11626.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11626.94,"end":11628.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11628.94,"end":11630.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11630.94,"end":11632.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11632.94,"end":11634.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11634.94,"end":11636.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11636.94,"end":11638.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11638.94,"end":11640.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11640.94,"end":11642.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11642.94,"end":11644.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11644.94,"end":11646.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11646.94,"end":11648.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11648.94,"end":11650.94,"text":"我們現在目前總共全國有188位"},{"start":11624.12,"end":11626.12,"text":"當然另外除了這個我們的"},{"start":11626.12,"end":11628.12,"text":"那個社政這邊之外"},{"start":11628.12,"end":11630.12,"text":"另外我們的整個司法系統那邊"},{"start":11630.12,"end":11632.12,"text":"也有其他他們的"},{"start":11632.12,"end":11634.12,"text":"所以你必須去盤點專業人士的部分"},{"start":11634.12,"end":11636.12,"text":"這也是法律賦予"},{"start":11636.12,"end":11638.12,"text":"必須要做的必要條件"},{"start":11638.12,"end":11640.12,"text":"接下來我跟你們討論"},{"start":11640.12,"end":11642.12,"text":"剛剛我們所說的現在不是"},{"start":11642.12,"end":11644.12,"text":"只有刪一張照片的問題這麼簡單"},{"start":11644.12,"end":11646.12,"text":"2024年你的修法"},{"start":11646.12,"end":11648.12,"text":"已經建立了性影像處理中心"},{"start":11648.12,"end":11650.12,"text":"已經建立了性影像處理中心"},{"start":11650.12,"end":11652.12,"text":"的數位這個建設資料庫"},{"start":11652.12,"end":11654.12,"text":"這個建設資料庫"},{"start":11654.12,"end":11656.12,"text":"你也讓主管機關單位用這個科技的方式"},{"start":11656.12,"end":11658.12,"text":"主動去巡查"},{"start":11658.12,"end":11660.12,"text":"我們看到2025年性影像中心接獲"},{"start":11660.12,"end":11662.12,"text":"我們看到2025年性影像中心接獲"},{"start":11662.12,"end":11664.12,"text":"兒少性影像相關的檢舉"},{"start":11664.12,"end":11666.12,"text":"有2899王子數"},{"start":11666.12,"end":11668.12,"text":"成員的部分是"},{"start":11668.12,"end":11670.12,"text":"3692王子數"},{"start":11670.12,"end":11672.12,"text":"下架是九成"},{"start":11672.12,"end":11674.12,"text":"所以本席要請問"},{"start":11674.12,"end":11676.12,"text":"那我們現在到底做到什麼樣程度"},{"start":11676.12,"end":11678.12,"text":"第一個"},{"start":11677.85,"end":11679.85,"text":"被害人通報到平台"},{"start":11679.85,"end":11681.85,"text":"收到通知必須要多久時間"},{"start":11681.85,"end":11683.85,"text":"第二個通知到限制"},{"start":11683.85,"end":11685.85,"text":"瀏覽或下架要多久時間"},{"start":11685.85,"end":11687.85,"text":"第三個同樣一份"},{"start":11687.85,"end":11689.85,"text":"影像如果搬到"},{"start":11689.85,"end":11691.85,"text":"新的一個上傳"},{"start":11691.85,"end":11693.85,"text":"不同的平台"},{"start":11693.85,"end":11695.85,"text":"那能不能做到一觸發現"},{"start":11695.85,"end":11697.85,"text":"全網追蹤"},{"start":11697.85,"end":11699.85,"text":"請教"},{"start":11699.85,"end":11701.85,"text":"包圍我們現在目前的一個規定就是"},{"start":11701.85,"end":11703.85,"text":"一旦發生這個情勢24小時之內"},{"start":11703.85,"end":11705.85,"text":"他就必須要讓他下架完成"},{"start":11706.61,"end":11708.61,"text":"沒有針對本席的提問"},{"start":11708.61,"end":11710.61,"text":"你是通報"},{"start":11710.61,"end":11712.61,"text":"然後你下架"},{"start":11712.61,"end":11714.61,"text":"他如果將這個影片再到其他的平台呢"},{"start":11715.16,"end":11717.16,"text":"對不對你現在因為我們在修法"},{"start":11717.16,"end":11719.16,"text":"能不能在科技這麼方便"},{"start":11719.16,"end":11721.16,"text":"能不能你只要"},{"start":11721.16,"end":11723.16,"text":"舉報一網就能夠通力"},{"start":11723.16,"end":11725.16,"text":"其他的"},{"start":11725.16,"end":11727.16,"text":"同樣性質的來一次處理"},{"start":11727.16,"end":11729.16,"text":"是不是"},{"start":11729.16,"end":11731.16,"text":"你的當然是如此做嘛"},{"start":11731.16,"end":11733.16,"text":"那務必要做到喔"},{"start":11733.16,"end":11735.16,"text":"那你們現在八月份"},{"start":11735.16,"end":11737.16,"text":"必須要示範了嘛"},{"start":11737.45,"end":11739.45,"text":"我們是預計明年八月"},{"start":11739.45,"end":11741.45,"text":"因為目前沒簽到結合"},{"start":11741.45,"end":11743.45,"text":"就是說有關鍵詞關鍵字這一部分"},{"start":11743.45,"end":11745.45,"text":"我們現在目前趕快做一些相關的調教"},{"start":11745.45,"end":11747.45,"text":"調整校正的一個"},{"start":11747.45,"end":11749.45,"text":"早晨不要再慢了"},{"start":11749.45,"end":11751.45,"text":"趕快加油"},{"start":11751.45,"end":11753.45,"text":"謝謝楊重英委員的發言"},{"start":11753.45,"end":11755.45,"text":"接下來請邱惠祿委員發言"},{"start":11763.26,"end":11765.26,"text":"主席還有各位委員大家好"},{"start":11765.26,"end":11767.26,"text":"那有請呂次長"},{"start":11767.26,"end":11769.26,"text":"有請呂次長"},{"start":11771.63,"end":11773.63,"text":"邱委員午安"},{"start":11801.63,"end":11803.63,"text":"我們現在目前其實已經有部分公告"},{"start":11803.63,"end":11805.63,"text":"我們目前現有"},{"start":11805.63,"end":11807.63,"text":"就是有這個制度"},{"start":11807.63,"end":11809.63,"text":"這個制度是怎麼樣就是說如果他是"},{"start":11809.63,"end":11811.63,"text":"高再犯風險的加害人"},{"start":11811.63,"end":11813.63,"text":"什麼叫高這個裡面有一個評估的機制"},{"start":11813.63,"end":11815.63,"text":"那如果說"},{"start":11815.63,"end":11817.63,"text":"他真的"},{"start":11817.63,"end":11819.63,"text":"他如果有再犯風險"},{"start":11819.63,"end":11821.63,"text":"你講的是52條什麼"},{"start":11821.63,"end":11823.63,"text":"逃亡然後那種狀況"},{"start":11823.63,"end":11825.63,"text":"所以52條你講的是局部"},{"start":11825.63,"end":11827.63,"text":"但我現在講的是全面"},{"start":11827.63,"end":11829.63,"text":"全面的話包委員"},{"start":11829.63,"end":11831.63,"text":"我之前有回答幾個委員"},{"start":11831.63,"end":11833.63,"text":"我知道大家也希望就是說一次"},{"start":11835.51,"end":11837.51,"text":"一次就達到效果可是這裡面"},{"start":11837.51,"end":11839.51,"text":"恐怕沒那麼單純因為我們"},{"start":11839.51,"end":11841.51,"text":"兩個重點第一個我們的"},{"start":11841.51,"end":11843.51,"text":"數據顯示裡面的加害者"},{"start":11843.51,"end":11845.51,"text":"很多事實上就是熟人我理解"},{"start":11845.51,"end":11847.51,"text":"其實我有做過功課"},{"start":11847.51,"end":11849.51,"text":"就是怕你公布加害者"},{"start":11849.51,"end":11851.51,"text":"然後會讓這些受害者"},{"start":11851.51,"end":11853.51,"text":"組織辨識然後呈現出"},{"start":11853.51,"end":11855.51,"text":"他們的身份然後造成他們二度"},{"start":11855.51,"end":11857.51,"text":"傷害那所以我覺得這個考慮"},{"start":11857.51,"end":11859.51,"text":"當然是值得要去"},{"start":11859.51,"end":11861.51,"text":"考量的但是可能"},{"start":11861.51,"end":11863.51,"text":"我覺得如果唯一只有考量"},{"start":11863.51,"end":11865.51,"text":"這個點的話我覺得可以採區別"},{"start":11865.51,"end":11867.51,"text":"如果公布加害人會組織辨識"},{"start":11867.51,"end":11869.51,"text":"到受害者一種處理"},{"start":11869.51,"end":11871.51,"text":"如果不會組織辨識受害人的話"},{"start":11871.51,"end":11873.51,"text":"可能可以考慮另外一種"},{"start":11873.51,"end":11875.51,"text":"處理這樣子如果說如果能夠達到"},{"start":11875.51,"end":11877.51,"text":"這個的話我覺得確實應該"},{"start":11877.51,"end":11879.51,"text":"有一個分開處理的方式"},{"start":11879.51,"end":11881.51,"text":"因為我覺得這裡有三種意義一個就是"},{"start":11881.51,"end":11883.51,"text":"公共利益然後再來就是民眾"},{"start":11883.51,"end":11885.51,"text":"知情權再來就是市井潛在的"},{"start":11885.51,"end":11887.51,"text":"受害者所以我覺得如果你們有這種"},{"start":11887.51,"end":11889.51,"text":"考量你們應該去做區別"},{"start":11889.51,"end":11891.51,"text":"對待那也許衛福部這邊就帶回去"},{"start":11891.51,"end":11893.51,"text":"再做進一步的思考"},{"start":11893.51,"end":11895.51,"text":"非常感謝委員的一個這個方向的提示我覺得這個確實"},{"start":11895.51,"end":11897.51,"text":"我們可以用一個分開處理"},{"start":11897.51,"end":11899.51,"text":"最主要就是那個被害人"},{"start":11899.51,"end":11901.51,"text":"最佳利益我覺得這個是"},{"start":11901.51,"end":11903.51,"text":"應該是top priority好謝謝次長"},{"start":11903.51,"end":11905.51,"text":"那我現在想跟您請教"},{"start":11905.51,"end":11907.51,"text":"因為邊行這件事我想是這"},{"start":11907.51,"end":11909.51,"text":"陣子滿火熱的議題"},{"start":11909.51,"end":11911.51,"text":"那我想我們在11月28號"},{"start":11911.51,"end":11913.51,"text":"會辦邊行的公投這樣子"},{"start":11913.51,"end":11915.51,"text":"其實民意的支持度非常的"},{"start":11915.51,"end":11917.51,"text":"高高達95%"},{"start":11917.51,"end":11919.51,"text":"那民主進步黨的支持者也高達"},{"start":11919.51,"end":11921.51,"text":"66%其實都很支持邊行"},{"start":11921.51,"end":11923.51,"text":"那我想請教一件事就是衛福部"},{"start":11923.51,"end":11925.51,"text":"對邊行的態度"},{"start":11925.51,"end":11927.51,"text":"包圍這裡面會牽涉到就是說"},{"start":11929.24,"end":11931.24,"text":"到底邊行跟整個這一個"},{"start":11931.24,"end":11933.24,"text":"犯罪力之間的相關性"},{"start":11933.24,"end":11935.24,"text":"我想這個犯罪學裡面已經有很多研究"},{"start":11935.24,"end":11937.24,"text":"其實未必盡然"},{"start":11937.24,"end":11939.24,"text":"這是第一點我想委員也是這方面的專家嘛"},{"start":11939.24,"end":11941.24,"text":"另外第二點就是說你現在一旦"},{"start":11941.24,"end":11943.24,"text":"採取這個方式"},{"start":11942.6,"end":11944.6,"text":"我必須要提醒台灣我們現在目前"},{"start":11944.6,"end":11946.6,"text":"我們人權公約我們"},{"start":11946.6,"end":11948.6,"text":"我們也已經內國法"},{"start":11948.6,"end":11950.6,"text":"那這裡面"},{"start":11950.6,"end":11952.6,"text":"會不會產生整個這一個"},{"start":11952.6,"end":11954.6,"text":"人權保障的一個"},{"start":11954.6,"end":11956.6,"text":"當然我們最主要還是我們要保護的是"},{"start":11956.6,"end":11958.6,"text":"民眾可是這裡面有沒有整個漢閣的"},{"start":11958.6,"end":11960.6,"text":"問題這第二點 我了解"},{"start":11960.6,"end":11962.6,"text":"我想正面說法反面說法"},{"start":11962.6,"end":11964.6,"text":"我們這邊都掌握非常清楚我只是想"},{"start":11964.6,"end":11966.6,"text":"今天站在質詢台上我只是想了解"},{"start":11966.6,"end":11968.6,"text":"衛福部的態度是支持"},{"start":11968.6,"end":11970.6,"text":"還是反對那當然這涉及價值"},{"start":11970.6,"end":11972.6,"text":"選項我們也其實沒有強迫說"},{"start":11972.6,"end":11974.6,"text":"衛福部一定要接受"},{"start":11974.6,"end":11976.6,"text":"是或否那只是想了解"},{"start":11976.6,"end":11978.6,"text":"我們中央主管機關衛福部對"},{"start":11978.6,"end":11980.6,"text":"邊行這件事的態度"},{"start":11980.6,"end":11982.6,"text":"因為這個就是我們"},{"start":11982.6,"end":11984.6,"text":"我們的刑法政策"},{"start":11984.6,"end":11986.6,"text":"還有整個這一個"},{"start":11986.6,"end":11988.6,"text":"現在憲法還有這個"},{"start":11988.6,"end":11990.6,"text":"還有刑法這個"},{"start":11990.6,"end":11992.6,"text":"是絕對的反對還是絕對的贊成"},{"start":11992.6,"end":11994.6,"text":"還是還在思考中"},{"start":11994.6,"end":11996.6,"text":"我們正在刑事法律的一個"},{"start":11996.6,"end":11998.6,"text":"的一個政策問題"},{"start":11998.6,"end":12000.6,"text":"那這個不是衛福部能夠單方面回應"},{"start":12000.6,"end":12002.6,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12002.6,"end":12004.6,"text":"所以是你好像"},{"start":12004.6,"end":12006.6,"text":"答案不是絕對的贊成"},{"start":12006.6,"end":12008.6,"text":"也不是絕對反對也還不是在思考中"},{"start":12008.6,"end":12010.6,"text":"好像變成有一點難以回答嗎"},{"start":12010.6,"end":12012.6,"text":"因為我現在就是說因為這是屬於"},{"start":12012.6,"end":12014.6,"text":"所謂國家的我們的這一個人權"},{"start":12014.6,"end":12016.6,"text":"跟這一個刑法政策"},{"start":12016.6,"end":12018.6,"text":"所以衛福部到目前還沒有形成態度"},{"start":12018.6,"end":12020.6,"text":"沒問題我今天站在質詢台上"},{"start":12020.6,"end":12022.6,"text":"只是想知道中央主管機關衛福部"},{"start":12022.6,"end":12024.6,"text":"目前的態度好那我請教"},{"start":12024.6,"end":12026.6,"text":"另外一個問題就是說"},{"start":12026.6,"end":12028.6,"text":"我想這一兩天很火熱的新聞"},{"start":12028.6,"end":12030.6,"text":"就是說我們有個台大"},{"start":12030.6,"end":12032.6,"text":"急診在等待的病患然後結果"},{"start":12032.6,"end":12034.6,"text":"就在等待12天的過程當中"},{"start":12034.6,"end":12036.6,"text":"就不幸離世了"},{"start":12036.6,"end":12038.6,"text":"那我想了解一件事通常"},{"start":12038.6,"end":12040.6,"text":"急診優色有個原因就是"},{"start":12040.6,"end":12042.6,"text":"因為上面的病床"},{"start":12042.6,"end":12044.6,"text":"關床那關床的理由"},{"start":12044.6,"end":12046.6,"text":"就是來自於說護理人員不足"},{"start":12046.6,"end":12048.6,"text":"那我想問這一個案件"},{"start":12048.6,"end":12050.6,"text":"有沒有涉及護理人力荒的問題"},{"start":12050.6,"end":12052.6,"text":"衛福部這邊有沒有掌握"},{"start":12052.6,"end":12054.6,"text":"包委員據我們的一個"},{"start":12054.6,"end":12056.6,"text":"就我們了解應該跟護理"},{"start":12057.93,"end":12059.93,"text":"應該"},{"start":12059.97,"end":12061.97,"text":"所以你們目前所定的原因"},{"start":12061.97,"end":12063.97,"text":"跟護理人力荒沒有關係"},{"start":12063.97,"end":12065.97,"text":"以這個個案來說沒有關係"},{"start":12065.97,"end":12067.97,"text":"那當然"},{"start":12067.97,"end":12069.97,"text":"我想護理人力荒"},{"start":12069.97,"end":12071.97,"text":"現在在全國普遍的存在"},{"start":12071.97,"end":12073.97,"text":"那這個案件"},{"start":12073.97,"end":12075.97,"text":"我覺得可以讓我們去思考"},{"start":12075.97,"end":12077.97,"text":"到底病人上不去"},{"start":12077.97,"end":12079.97,"text":"跟護理人員人力荒有沒有關係"},{"start":12079.97,"end":12081.97,"text":"那如果沒有也沒有關係"},{"start":12081.97,"end":12083.97,"text":"可以讓我們進一步再去思考說"},{"start":12083.97,"end":12085.97,"text":"急診優色的問題如果是護理人力荒"},{"start":12085.97,"end":12087.97,"text":"所導致的關床這個要怎麼解決"},{"start":12087.97,"end":12089.97,"text":"那我最近一直聽到一些醫院的院長說"},{"start":12089.97,"end":12091.97,"text":"得護理得天下"},{"start":12091.97,"end":12093.97,"text":"那感覺是非常的"},{"start":12093.97,"end":12095.97,"text":"保佑我們護理人員"},{"start":12095.97,"end":12097.97,"text":"那非常的疼愛我們護理人員"},{"start":12097.97,"end":12099.97,"text":"但是呢這幾天也發生一個憾事"},{"start":12099.97,"end":12101.97,"text":"就是我前兩天才"},{"start":12101.97,"end":12103.97,"text":"陪同衛福部金門醫院"},{"start":12103.97,"end":12105.97,"text":"一個受霸凌的護理師開記者會"},{"start":12105.97,"end":12107.97,"text":"那這個其實就發生在"},{"start":12107.97,"end":12109.97,"text":"衛福部的金門醫院"},{"start":12109.97,"end":12111.97,"text":"那這看起來是一個個案問題"},{"start":12111.97,"end":12113.97,"text":"可是它背後其實有一個制度性的問題"},{"start":12113.97,"end":12115.97,"text":"例如說請假的友善"},{"start":12115.97,"end":12117.97,"text":"制度的友善性"},{"start":12117.97,"end":12119.97,"text":"再來就是霸凌的處理跟霸凌申訴"},{"start":12119.97,"end":12121.97,"text":"機制的妥適性"},{"start":12121.97,"end":12123.97,"text":"然後再來就是有沒有一個就是"},{"start":12123.97,"end":12127.97,"text":"腹瀆被深屆的冤案"},{"start":12127.97,"end":12129.97,"text":"冤案的問題這樣子"},{"start":12129.97,"end":12131.97,"text":"因為其實他不是公務人員"},{"start":12131.97,"end":12133.97,"text":"那國家的法規制度並沒有要求他報備"},{"start":12133.97,"end":12135.97,"text":"可是這家醫院卻要求他事先來報備"},{"start":12135.97,"end":12137.97,"text":"那會不會這家醫院"},{"start":12137.97,"end":12139.97,"text":"就是衛福部的金門醫院"},{"start":12139.97,"end":12141.97,"text":"會不會增加法律所無知限制"},{"start":12141.97,"end":12143.97,"text":"如果用內規來限制"},{"start":12143.97,"end":12145.97,"text":"甚至去剝奪他憲法"},{"start":12145.97,"end":12147.97,"text":"這個遷徙自由"},{"start":12147.97,"end":12149.97,"text":"所以我覺得這個案件"},{"start":12149.97,"end":12151.97,"text":"看似個案可是後面有"},{"start":12151.97,"end":12153.97,"text":"系統性的問題"},{"start":12153.97,"end":12155.97,"text":"那是不是請衛福部來關照"},{"start":12155.97,"end":12157.97,"text":"一來就是讓這個個案得到妥適的"},{"start":12157.97,"end":12159.97,"text":"一個照護跟後續的處理"},{"start":12159.97,"end":12161.97,"text":"再來就是去檢視這些制度的問題"},{"start":12161.97,"end":12163.97,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":12163.97,"end":12165.97,"text":"我知道那個委員向來"},{"start":12165.97,"end":12167.97,"text":"對這個問題非常非常關心"},{"start":12167.97,"end":12169.97,"text":"我覺得金門醫院這個事情"},{"start":12169.97,"end":12171.97,"text":"應該要來做一個通盤的討論"},{"start":12171.97,"end":12173.97,"text":"那這件事不是可以讓我們知道"},{"start":12173.97,"end":12175.97,"text":"多久之後會有一個後續的結果"},{"start":12177.72,"end":12179.72,"text":"我們現在目前在處理當中"},{"start":12179.72,"end":12181.72,"text":"那我們是不是"},{"start":12181.72,"end":12183.72,"text":"衣服會那邊"},{"start":12183.72,"end":12185.72,"text":"我後續的衣服會那邊再跟委員做一個報告"},{"start":12185.72,"end":12187.72,"text":"我們希望不是然後就沒有然後了"},{"start":12187.72,"end":12189.72,"text":"真的是有一個逐步的"},{"start":12189.72,"end":12191.72,"text":"互動跟結果能夠讓我們知道"},{"start":12191.72,"end":12193.72,"text":"還有一個改善"},{"start":12193.72,"end":12195.72,"text":"那最後一個問題"},{"start":12195.72,"end":12197.72,"text":"我想食安的這個風暴"},{"start":12197.72,"end":12199.72,"text":"我們身歷其重人心惶惶"},{"start":12199.72,"end":12201.72,"text":"那當然衛福部這邊也有"},{"start":12201.72,"end":12203.72,"text":"針對於某些食品認為應該是"},{"start":12203.72,"end":12205.72,"text":"逐批檢查的"},{"start":12205.72,"end":12207.72,"text":"那這種規則就有"},{"start":12207.72,"end":12209.72,"text":"那我們在7月31號也去函衛福部說"},{"start":12209.72,"end":12211.72,"text":"有哪一些"},{"start":12211.72,"end":12213.72,"text":"輸入的食品其實是"},{"start":12213.72,"end":12215.72,"text":"採逐批"},{"start":12215.72,"end":12217.72,"text":"我們的那個函文有要求"},{"start":12217.72,"end":12219.72,"text":"要有一些資訊什麼資訊"},{"start":12219.72,"end":12221.72,"text":"例如說哪一些類別的食物"},{"start":12221.72,"end":12223.72,"text":"然後其實衛福部目前的"},{"start":12223.72,"end":12225.72,"text":"規則是寫逐批或者是"},{"start":12225.72,"end":12227.72,"text":"每半年那對於某些物"},{"start":12227.72,"end":12229.72,"text":"食品你們是採逐批那理由"},{"start":12229.72,"end":12231.72,"text":"是什麼那還有就是說"},{"start":12231.72,"end":12233.72,"text":"到底是哪些國外製造業進來的"},{"start":12233.72,"end":12235.72,"text":"哪些國內輸入業的你們有逐批"},{"start":12235.72,"end":12237.72,"text":"我們想知道這個資訊的"},{"start":12237.72,"end":12239.72,"text":"公開然後進一步"},{"start":12239.72,"end":12241.72,"text":"來做一些監督"},{"start":12241.72,"end":12243.72,"text":"結果你給我們回函只有左邊"},{"start":12243.72,"end":12245.72,"text":"綠色的字就是"},{"start":12245.72,"end":12247.72,"text":"一個犯犯的"},{"start":12247.72,"end":12249.72,"text":"一個統計數字例如說"},{"start":12249.72,"end":12251.72,"text":"110年1680然後114年"},{"start":12251.72,"end":12253.72,"text":"1090那我們想要的是"},{"start":12253.72,"end":12255.72,"text":"下面這個比較精細一點的表格"},{"start":12255.72,"end":12257.72,"text":"那你們只給了一個1090"},{"start":12257.72,"end":12259.72,"text":"所以這邊我們有一點感覺"},{"start":12259.72,"end":12261.72,"text":"所知好像要一塊結果"},{"start":12261.72,"end":12263.72,"text":"結果給了五毛啦"},{"start":12263.72,"end":12265.72,"text":"那所以能不能把其他的"},{"start":12265.72,"end":12267.72,"text":"95毛補給我們"},{"start":12267.72,"end":12269.72,"text":"就是我們不要旁邊那個"},{"start":12269.72,"end":12271.72,"text":"綠色犯犯的很抽象的一批"},{"start":12271.72,"end":12273.72,"text":"114年1090的數字"},{"start":12273.72,"end":12275.72,"text":"我們有一些細節性的東西"},{"start":12275.72,"end":12277.72,"text":"就像我這Excel表格所做的"},{"start":12277.72,"end":12279.72,"text":"可能因為你們的法規"},{"start":12279.72,"end":12281.72,"text":"要求逐批或逐年"},{"start":12281.72,"end":12283.72,"text":"對於某些食品你們採逐批"},{"start":12283.72,"end":12285.72,"text":"所以有了1090這樣的數字"},{"start":12285.72,"end":12287.72,"text":"那理由是什麼為什麼針對"},{"start":12287.72,"end":12289.72,"text":"這樣的食品是採用逐批因為"},{"start":12289.72,"end":12292.72,"text":"行政法規嘛輸入業者有21項的產品"},{"start":12292.72,"end":12294.72,"text":"逐批或者是沒半年"},{"start":12294.72,"end":12297.72,"text":"那哪些是要逐批可不可以給我們數字"},{"start":12297.72,"end":12299.72,"text":"每一個品項的具體的數字"},{"start":12299.72,"end":12301.72,"text":"因為這樣子比較精確"},{"start":12301.72,"end":12303.72,"text":"然後我們可以做進一步的監督跟思考"},{"start":12303.72,"end":12305.72,"text":"那就是原因"},{"start":12305.72,"end":12307.72,"text":"為什麼這些是採用逐批"},{"start":12307.72,"end":12309.72,"text":"然後還有一些國內外的製造業"},{"start":12309.72,"end":12311.72,"text":"或輸入業者可以嗎"},{"start":12311.72,"end":12313.72,"text":"這個次長OK感謝我是不是請那個"},{"start":12313.72,"end":12315.72,"text":"食藥署來跟我們"},{"start":12315.72,"end":12317.72,"text":"是委員報告一下是跟委員報告就是我們"},{"start":12317.72,"end":12319.72,"text":"提供那個數字啊因為其實依據我們的"},{"start":12319.72,"end":12321.72,"text":"輸入產業辦法裡頭其實"},{"start":12321.72,"end":12323.72,"text":"我們是依據風險去做分的"},{"start":12323.72,"end":12325.72,"text":"那基本上其實他是以這個合格"},{"start":12325.72,"end":12327.72,"text":"檢驗的不合格的這個情形"},{"start":12327.72,"end":12329.72,"text":"那我們會去做一個我們有三個層級"},{"start":12329.72,"end":12331.72,"text":"來去做一個調整"},{"start":12331.72,"end":12333.72,"text":"所以並不是說一定是什麼類別或是什麼"},{"start":12333.72,"end":12335.72,"text":"我們才會去採逐批"},{"start":12335.72,"end":12337.72,"text":"那當然逐批有一個是我們在年度我們會有一個"},{"start":12337.72,"end":12339.72,"text":"監視的一個相關的這個計畫"},{"st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"},{"start":12732.98,"end":12734.98,"text":"還有相關單位"},{"start":12734.98,"end":12736.98,"text":"來做更好的這些"},{"start":12736.98,"end":12738.98,"text":"有關勞動權或者是"},{"start":12738.98,"end":12740.98,"text":"該有的處理模式"},{"start":12740.98,"end":12742.98,"text":"能夠原本的來處理當然"},{"start":12742.98,"end":12744.98,"text":"也希望這個過程能夠"},{"start":12744.98,"end":12746.98,"text":"有充分的時間來討論的同時"},{"start":12746.98,"end":12748.98,"text":"也希望是以一個溫和的方式"},{"start":12748.98,"end":12750.98,"text":"來協助跟處理"},{"start":12750.98,"end":12752.98,"text":"這是有關於這個"},{"start":12752.98,"end":12754.98,"text":"基層診所專區的部分"},{"start":12754.98,"end":12756.98,"text":"再過來是有關於這個醫療機構"},{"start":12756.98,"end":12758.98,"text":"隱私維護的地方"},{"start":12758.98,"end":12760.98,"text":"我們知道目前醫師這邊"},{"start":12760.98,"end":12762.98,"text":"也在討論醫療機構"},{"start":12762.98,"end":12764.98,"text":"的這個醫療隱私權"},{"start":12764.98,"end":12766.98,"text":"的維護規範主要是"},{"start":12766.98,"end":12768.98,"text":"因為之前有一些"},{"start":12768.98,"end":12770.98,"text":"相關的影響"},{"start":12770.98,"end":12772.98,"text":"或者是資訊造成"},{"start":12772.98,"end":12774.98,"text":"對民眾的一些"},{"start":12774.98,"end":12776.98,"text":"很明顯的影響"},{"start":12776.98,"end":12778.98,"text":"這個部分我們也知道目前"},{"start":12778.98,"end":12780.98,"text":"有設定了一個"},{"start":12780.98,"end":12782.98,"text":"比較"},{"start":12782.98,"end":12784.98,"text":"希望民眾在就醫的過程裡面"},{"start":12784.98,"end":12786.98,"text":"有好的方式"},{"start":12786.98,"end":12788.98,"text":"去同意他的"},{"start":12788.98,"end":12790.98,"text":"這個整個不管是在"},{"start":12790.98,"end":12792.98,"text":"影像錄音"},{"start":12792.98,"end":12794.98,"text":"或者是在可能會"},{"start":12794.98,"end":12796.98,"text":"需要錄影的同意書"},{"start":12796.98,"end":12798.98,"text":"這個草案我想應該"},{"start":12798.98,"end":12800.98,"text":"你也很清楚"},{"start":12800.98,"end":12802.98,"text":"那這個部分其實針對"},{"start":12802.98,"end":12804.98,"text":"診所的醫師來講"},{"start":12804.98,"end":12806.98,"text":"他其實是蠻困擾的"},{"start":12806.98,"end":12808.98,"text":"他還看一個感冒"},{"start":12808.98,"end":12810.98,"text":"結果他就需要一個書面同意書"},{"start":12810.98,"end":12812.98,"text":"這個書面同意書裡面"},{"start":12812.98,"end":12814.98,"text":"有非常完整的一個特定目的"},{"start":12814.98,"end":12816.98,"text":"有十幾項"},{"start":12816.98,"end":12818.98,"text":"他其實很難勾選說到底我來看感冒"},{"start":12818.98,"end":12820.98,"text":"或是來看一個"},{"start":12820.98,"end":12822.98,"text":"一般的疾病"},{"start":12822.98,"end":12824.98,"text":"需要簽署到這個書面的同意書嗎"},{"start":12824.98,"end":12826.98,"text":"這個當然這個知情權是"},{"start":12826.98,"end":12828.98,"text":"很重要可是如果平衡"},{"start":12828.98,"end":12830.98,"text":"這個知情權跟他該有的"},{"start":12830.98,"end":12832.98,"text":"這個實際上的作業這部分"},{"start":12832.98,"end":12834.98,"text":"除了說"},{"start":12834.98,"end":12836.98,"text":"持續來草擬這個同意書的內容"},{"start":12836.98,"end":12838.98,"text":"的同時他有沒有機會"},{"start":12838.98,"end":12840.98,"text":"是提供一個建置的數位"},{"start":12840.98,"end":12842.98,"text":"或電子同意的平台跟機制"},{"start":12842.98,"end":12844.98,"text":"讓診所的病患"},{"start":12844.98,"end":12846.98,"text":"還有在跟"},{"start":12846.98,"end":12848.98,"text":"診所互動之間"},{"start":12848.98,"end":12850.98,"text":"在執行上有更方便"},{"start":12850.98,"end":12852.98,"text":"這部分不知道醫師是"},{"start":12852.98,"end":12854.98,"text":"再過來有沒有機會來做這方面的努力"},{"start":12854.98,"end":12856.98,"text":"是謝謝委員關心"},{"start":12856.98,"end":12858.98,"text":"那針對這一塊我們"},{"start":12858.98,"end":12860.98,"text":"現在有彙整各個"},{"start":12860.98,"end":12862.98,"text":"各界的意見因為這個"},{"start":12862.98,"end":12864.98,"text":"事實上這個規範出去"},{"start":12864.98,"end":12866.98,"text":"我們也收到很多聲音"},{"start":12866.98,"end":12868.98,"text":"我們預計因為我們有跨部會討論"},{"start":12868.98,"end":12870.98,"text":"然後我們會跟各個專家學者做一些"},{"start":12870.98,"end":12872.98,"text":"內容文字"},{"start":12872.98,"end":12874.98,"text":"法律上的討論我們預計"},{"start":12874.98,"end":12876.98,"text":"九月中旬會公告一個"},{"start":12876.98,"end":12878.98,"text":"所謂的醫療"},{"start":12878.98,"end":12880.98,"text":"機構內錄音錄影告知"},{"start":12880.98,"end":12882.98,"text":"自己同意書的這個規範的"},{"start":12882.98,"end":12884.98,"text":"草案我們大概九月中旬"},{"start":12884.98,"end":12886.98,"text":"會做一個公告是原則上"},{"start":12886.98,"end":12888.98,"text":"如果能夠在這個低風險"},{"start":12888.98,"end":12890.98,"text":"的情形之下可以"},{"start":12890.98,"end":12892.98,"text":"有好的處理模式包括"},{"start":12892.98,"end":12894.98,"text":"相用電子或者是數位模式"},{"start":12894.98,"end":12896.98,"text":"處理的話"},{"start":12896.98,"end":12898.98,"text":"比較環保在整個資料"},{"start":12898.98,"end":12900.98,"text":"的收集也相對是比較方便"},{"start":12900.98,"end":12902.98,"text":"所以針對無止化的需求"},{"start":12902.98,"end":12904.98,"text":"之下我們希望有更多"},{"start":12904.98,"end":12906.98,"text":"多元的方式來處理這"},{"start":12906.98,"end":12908.98,"text":"部分也希望醫師是這邊"},{"start":12908.98,"end":12910.98,"text":"來自信努力"},{"start":12910.98,"end":12912.98,"text":"謝謝請回座"},{"start":12912.98,"end":12914.98,"text":"再過來就是有關於這個"},{"start":12914.98,"end":12916.98,"text":"平民戀愛防治規範跟創作自由"},{"start":12916.98,"end":12918.98,"text":"的部分麻煩國民健康署"},{"start":12918.98,"end":12920.98,"text":"的羅書英署長"},{"start":12922.89,"end":12924.89,"text":"主席跟委員大家好"},{"start":129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司部長也公開表示"},{"start":12948.89,"end":12950.89,"text":"有關於目前的紅線"},{"start":12950.89,"end":12952.89,"text":"在煙品品牌要遮蔽"},{"start":12952.89,"end":12954.89,"text":"模糊或去世別化"},{"start":12954.89,"end":12956.89,"text":"並且要加監獄等提示的"},{"start":12956.89,"end":12958.89,"text":"這些警訊那經過處理以後"},{"start":12958.89,"end":12960.89,"text":"就可以再次的這個上架"},{"start":12960.89,"end":12962.89,"text":"看播可是這個事件"},{"start":12963.12,"end":12965.12,"text":"這個過程裡面其實也提醒我們"},{"start":12965.12,"end":12967.12,"text":"針對廉氦防治法第十二條"},{"start":12967.12,"end":12969.12,"text":"相關的規定中有關廣告"},{"start":12969.12,"end":12971.12,"text":"宣傳的定義其實"},{"start":12971.12,"end":12973.12,"text":"並沒有那麼明確啦"},{"start":12973.12,"end":12975.12,"text":"就是模糊法上雖然紅線是有寫"},{"start":12975.12,"end":12977.12,"text":"禁止明確呈現於煙品品牌"},{"start":12977.12,"end":12979.12,"text":"他一定要加強定義"},{"start":12979.12,"end":12981.12,"text":"可是其實並沒有明確的"},{"start":12981.12,"end":12983.12,"text":"執法規或者是函事"},{"start":12983.12,"end":12985.12,"text":"所以郭建署跟CNN"},{"start":12985.12,"end":12987.12,"text":"其實有自訂廣電"},{"start":12987.12,"end":12989.12,"text":"內容出現CNN畫面或情節"},{"start":12989.12,"end":12991.12,"text":"的這個自播的處理"},{"start":12991.12,"end":12993.12,"text":"原則"},{"start":12993.12,"end":12995.12,"text":"比較像是一種自律參考的行政指導"},{"start":12995.12,"end":12997.12,"text":"而不是比較有"},{"start":12997.12,"end":12999.12,"text":"強力的這個函事"},{"start":12999.12,"end":13001.12,"text":"所以這個平台"},{"start":13001.12,"end":13003.12,"text":"其實他是針對這個廣電業者"},{"start":13003.12,"end":13005.12,"text":"那要適用到電影"},{"start":13005.12,"end":13007.12,"text":"或者是適用到網路平台"},{"start":13007.12,"end":13009.12,"text":"的這些影視動漫"},{"start":13009.12,"end":13011.12,"text":"好像空間是"},{"start":13011.12,"end":13013.12,"text":"蠻模糊的"},{"start":13013.12,"end":13015.12,"text":"因為我們知道NCC負責的是廣播電視"},{"start":13015.12,"end":13017.12,"text":"文化部負責的是"},{"start":13017.12,"end":13019.12,"text":"電影那網路平台的這些"},{"start":13019.12,"end":13021.12,"text":"影視動漫的主責機關"},{"start":13021.12,"end":13023.12,"text":"其實現在還是在模糊"},{"start":13023.12,"end":13025.12,"text":"沒有那麼明確所以我們希望"},{"start":13025.12,"end":13027.12,"text":"衛福部"},{"start":13027.12,"end":13029.12,"text":"包括還有國建署最近能夠"},{"start":13029.12,"end":13031.12,"text":"在跟NCC跟文化部"},{"start":13031.12,"end":13033.12,"text":"甚至是蘇發部"},{"start":13033.12,"end":13035.12,"text":"等相關的部會一起來開"},{"start":13035.12,"end":13037.12,"text":"相關的研議如何能夠在"},{"start":13037.12,"end":13039.12,"text":"尊重創作自由的這個"},{"start":13039.12,"end":13041.12,"text":"前提之下來執行有關"},{"start":13041.12,"end":13043.12,"text":"沿海防治法的法規範"},{"start":13043.12,"end":13045.12,"text":"甚至看是不是要建立更明確"},{"start":13045.12,"end":13047.12,"text":"的指引或者是函事"},{"start":13047.12,"end":13049.12,"text":"因為我們相信"},{"start":13049.12,"end":13051.12,"text":"大家都希望保障創作的自由"},{"start":13051.12,"end":13053.12,"text":"那可是也要支持"},{"start":13053.12,"end":13055.12,"text":"這個沿海防治等健康"},{"start":13055.12,"end":13057.12,"text":"促進跟保障的法規"},{"start":13057.12,"end":13059.12,"text":"我們不希望這個衝突"},{"start":13059.12,"end":13061.12,"text":"的這個情形之下"},{"start":13061.12,"end":13063.12,"text":"去扼殺了這個創作的自由"},{"start":13063.12,"end":13065.12,"text":"當然我們也需要好的這個"},{"start":13065.12,"end":13067.12,"text":"執法來讓這個沿海防治"},{"start":13067.12,"end":13069.12,"text":"可以得到最大的保障"},{"start":13069.12,"end":13071.12,"text":"所以能不能麻煩"},{"start":13071.12,"end":13073.12,"text":"國建署這邊"},{"start":13073.12,"end":13075.12,"text":"來召開相關的"},{"start":13075.12,"end":13077.12,"text":"所以大家共同來面對這個問題"},{"start":13080.32,"end":13082.32,"text":"謝謝委員跟各界的關心"},{"start":13082.32,"end":13085.32,"text":"國民健康署重視兒少健康"},{"start":13085.32,"end":13087.32,"text":"也尊重創作自由"},{"start":13087.32,"end":13089.32,"text":"那委員關心的部分"},{"start":13089.32,"end":13091.32,"text":"我們在菸品及"},{"start":13091.32,"end":13094.32,"text":"吸金菸品的防治測淨會的"},{"start":13094.32,"end":13096.32,"text":"相關工作小組會議"},{"start":13096.32,"end":13098.32,"text":"我們會邀集這個抒發部NCC"},{"start":13098.32,"end":13100.32,"text":"還有抒發部等相關單位"},{"start":13100.32,"end":13102.32,"text":"我們儘速再來做研議"},{"start":13102.32,"end":13104.32,"text":"也謝謝委員"},{"start":13104.32,"end":13106.32,"text":"好 那就麻煩"},{"start":13106.32,"end":13108.32,"text":"大家一起努力 謝謝"},{"start":13109.56,"end":13111.56,"text":"謝謝王振旭委員發言"},{"start":13112.29,"end":13115.29,"text":"葉原之委員 葉原之委員 葉原之委員不在"},{"start":13115.29,"end":13118.29,"text":"沈博洋委員改書面質詢"},{"start":13118.29,"end":13121.29,"text":"那接下來請陳瑩委員發言"},{"start":13130.49,"end":13133.49,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請勞動部"},{"start":13135.24,"end":13138.24,"text":"有請勞動部葉佩傑"},{"start":13144.98,"end":13145.98,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13151.36,"end":13152.36,"text":"委員好"},{"start":13152.78,"end":13154.78,"text":"你好 那個"},{"start":13154.78,"end":13156.78,"text":"我們今天要討論這個"},{"start":13156.78,"end":13160.78,"text":"性侵害犯罪防治法的修正案"},{"start":13160.78,"end":13163.78,"text":"本席在這邊想針對"},{"start":13163.78,"end":13165.78,"text":"一個很重要但是過去"},{"start":13165.78,"end":13169.78,"text":"卻常被忽略的問題來就教"},{"start":13169.78,"end":13172.78,"text":"那如果今天"},{"start":13172.78,"end":13174.78,"text":"一名勞工在工作場所"},{"start":13174.78,"end":13177.78,"text":"遭到主管的性侵害"},{"start":13177.82,"end":13180.82,"text":"那這是不是"},{"start":13180.82,"end":13183.82,"text":"能夠算是一個單純的刑事案件"},{"start":13186.02,"end":13188.02,"text":"博洋委員 這個如果是"},{"start":13188.02,"end":13190.02,"text":"依照性供法規定的話"},{"start":13190.02,"end":13192.02,"text":"僱主遇到這個職場的"},{"start":13192.02,"end":13194.02,"text":"性侵害的案件"},{"start":13194.02,"end":13195.02,"text":"他其實也是"},{"start":13195.02,"end":13197.02,"text":"性供法的性騷擾案件"},{"start":13197.02,"end":13199.02,"text":"僱主也是要以性供法說掉"},{"start":13199.02,"end":13200.02,"text":"所以很顯然答案"},{"start":13200.75,"end":13201.75,"text":"就不是"},{"start":13203.49,"end":13205.49,"text":"單純的刑事案件不能這樣看待"},{"start":13205.49,"end":13209.49,"text":"那我們在這邊要進一步確認"},{"start":13209.49,"end":13212.49,"text":"除了刑事責任之外"},{"start":13212.49,"end":13214.49,"text":"這個案件是不是也可能"},{"start":13214.49,"end":13217.49,"text":"涉及到性別平等工作法"},{"start":13217.49,"end":13219.49,"text":"你剛剛已經有講好"},{"start":13219.49,"end":13222.49,"text":"那如果我們今天是主管"},{"start":13222.49,"end":13224.49,"text":"利用職權對部署來進行"},{"start":13224.49,"end":13226.49,"text":"性侵害的時候"},{"start":13226.49,"end":13228.49,"text":"而且這個被害人"},{"start":13228.49,"end":13231.49,"text":"他因此產生了恐懼"},{"start":13231.49,"end":13233.49,"text":"還有精神壓力"},{"start":13233.49,"end":13237.49,"text":"甚至說他不敢再繼續去工作"},{"start":13237.49,"end":13239.49,"text":"那這是不是也可能涉及到"},{"start":13239.49,"end":13241.49,"text":"這個職業安全衛生法"},{"start":13241.49,"end":13243.49,"text":"所處理的這個執行職務"},{"start":13243.49,"end":13245.49,"text":"遭受不法侵害"},{"start":13247.14,"end":13248.14,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13248.53,"end":13249.53,"text":"你剛剛所提到"},{"start":13249.53,"end":13250.53,"text":"因為他的先決"},{"start":13250.53,"end":13253.53,"text":"當然就是說像性騷擾這樣一樣"},{"start":13253.53,"end":13254.53,"text":"也是屬於我們職安法裡面"},{"start":13254.53,"end":13256.53,"text":"所提到的職場不法侵害"},{"start":13256.53,"end":13257.53,"text":"好"},{"start":13257.53,"end":13260.53,"text":"那另外現在的這個職安法"},{"start":13260.53,"end":13262.53,"text":"已經進一步建立了"},{"start":13262.53,"end":13264.53,"text":"這個職場霸凌的相關規範了"},{"start":13265.57,"end":13269.57,"text":"那但是我要在這裡特別釐清"},{"start":13269.57,"end":13270.57,"text":"職場性侵害"},{"start":13271.54,"end":13273.54,"text":"是不是就等於職場霸凌"},{"start":13275.88,"end":13276.88,"text":"嗯"},{"start":13277.55,"end":13278.55,"text":"性侵害"},{"start":13278.55,"end":13281.55,"text":"因為這兩個他在定義上是不一樣的"},{"start":13281.55,"end":13282.55,"text":"好"},{"start":13282.55,"end":13283.55,"text":"那如果不是的話"},{"start":13283.55,"end":13285.55,"text":"本席也同意"},{"start":13285.55,"end":13288.55,"text":"因為兩者的這個法律構成的要件"},{"start":13288.55,"end":13291.55,"text":"並不完全相同"},{"start":13291.55,"end":13292.55,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":13292.55,"end":13295.55,"text":"我要問的是說"},{"start":13295.55,"end":13296.55,"text":"同一個案件"},{"start":13296.55,"end":13300.55,"text":"有沒有可能他同時成立性侵害"},{"start":13301.29,"end":13304.29,"text":"性別平等工作法的這個詮釋性騷擾"},{"start":13304.29,"end":13306.29,"text":"以及職場不法侵害"},{"start":13306.29,"end":13308.29,"text":"甚至職場霸凌"},{"start":13308.79,"end":13312.79,"text":"例如說主管性侵害女部署之後呢"},{"start":13312.79,"end":13316.79,"text":"他利用這個考機申簽"},{"start":13316.79,"end":13319.79,"text":"還有工作分配等號去威脅被害人"},{"start":13319.79,"end":13322.79,"text":"然後要求他不可以講出去"},{"start":13322.79,"end":13324.79,"text":"那這種情況是不是就是他同時"},{"start":13324.79,"end":13328.79,"text":"就跨越了三個法律的領域"},{"start":13329.21,"end":13333.21,"text":"所以如果今天一旦有這樣的犯罪事件"},{"start":13333.21,"end":13337.21,"text":"勞動主管機關需不需要介入調查"},{"start":13337.47,"end":13339.47,"text":"有可能他就是這種不法侵害行為"},{"start":13339.47,"end":13342.47,"text":"他可能是屬於您剛剛提到的這種附屬行為"},{"start":13342.47,"end":13343.47,"text":"那這些附屬行為的話呢"},{"start":13343.47,"end":13345.47,"text":"僱主他就應該要依照"},{"start":13345.47,"end":13346.47,"text":"我們各自的法令規定"},{"start":13346.47,"end":13347.47,"text":"比如像性供法"},{"start":13347.47,"end":13351.47,"text":"還有我們目前審案法所訂的職場霸凌的相關規定"},{"start":13351.47,"end":13352.47,"text":"去做調查"},{"start":13352.47,"end":13353.47,"text":"是"},{"start":13353.47,"end":13355.47,"text":"那在之前呢"},{"start":13355.47,"end":13359.47,"text":"我特別要提一個令人相當生氣的一個案例"},{"start":13359.47,"end":13360.47,"text":"就是"},{"start":13362.23,"end":13365.23,"text":"之前發生在這個麥當勞主管性侵害"},{"start":13365.23,"end":13367.23,"text":"這個未成年部署的案子"},{"start":13367.23,"end":13368.23,"text":"那"},{"start":13368.42,"end":13372.42,"text":"這個案子在第一審判決是給予不起訴"},{"start":13372.42,"end":13374.42,"text":"而理由是罪證不足"},{"start":13375.36,"end":13379.36,"text":"隨後呢這個案子又經過高檢署發回更審"},{"start":13380.1,"end":13382.1,"text":"那這個案子發生之後呢"},{"start":13382.1,"end":13384.1,"text":"台北市政府勞動局"},{"start":13384.1,"end":13387.1,"text":"依照這個違反性供法"},{"start":13387.1,"end":13390.1,"text":"對麥當勞開罰新台幣100萬元"},{"start":13390.39,"end":13393.39,"text":"那台灣麥當勞獲得這個"},{"start":13393.39,"end":13395.39,"text":"他們獲報之後呢"},{"start":13395.39,"end":13398.39,"text":"將這個涉案的主管把它解僱了"},{"start":13399.07,"end":13404.07,"text":"但是呢因為這個性侵屬於刑事偵查的範疇嘛"},{"start":13404.07,"end":13406.07,"text":"公司在後續呢"},{"start":13406.07,"end":13409.07,"text":"他僅僅依照這個"},{"start":13409.07,"end":13411.07,"text":"性別平等工作法"},{"start":13411.07,"end":13414.07,"text":"去處理這個職場性騷擾的調查"},{"start":13414.34,"end":13416.34,"text":"好優勢可見喔"},{"start":13416.34,"end":13417.34,"text":"職場性侵"},{"start":13417.34,"end":13420.34,"text":"他一定涉及到職場性騷擾"},{"start":13420.34,"end":13421.34,"text":"而且呢"},{"start":13422.02,"end":13426.02,"text":"嗯也是屬於這個職場霸凌的樣態"},{"start":13427.67,"end":13430.67,"text":"因為這個被害者"},{"start":13430.67,"end":13433.67,"text":"他的身體已經受到不法侵害了"},{"start":13433.67,"end":13434.67,"text":"那可是呢"},{"start":13434.67,"end":13437.67,"text":"僱主跟這個勞動主管機關"},{"start":13437.95,"end":13439.95,"text":"好像似乎他只能"},{"start":13439.95,"end":13441.95,"text":"他們只能事後來調查"},{"start":13441.95,"end":13443.95,"text":"而且在傷害發生之後呢"},{"start":13443.95,"end":13445.95,"text":"當事人跟這個家屬"},{"start":13445.95,"end":13448.95,"text":"面對司法只能自力救濟"},{"start":13449.93,"end":13453.93,"text":"在這個調查結果跟報告呢"},{"start":13453.93,"end":13456.93,"text":"也沒有辦法提供給司法機關"},{"start":13457.54,"end":13460.54,"text":"所以本期要在這裡強烈的建議喔"},{"start":13460.54,"end":13462.54,"text":"行政調查的資料"},{"start":13462.54,"end":13466.54,"text":"應該要主動提供給受害人跟家屬"},{"start":13467.45,"end":13469.45,"text":"在他們面對司法的時候呢"},{"start":13469.45,"end":13472.45,"text":"才可以提供給這個法院參考"},{"start":13472.45,"end":13473.45,"text":"我想這樣的建議"},{"start":13473.45,"end":13475.45,"text":"我不曉得你們勞動部的看法是什麼"},{"start":13479.95,"end":13485.95,"text":"謝謝委員這邊就是針對我們這個性供法相關的一些規範提出一些建議"},{"start":13485.95,"end":13488.95,"text":"那其實依照現在地方在"},{"start":13488.95,"end":13490.95,"text":"主管機關在受理工作場所"},{"start":13490.95,"end":13496.95,"text":"性騷擾事件的申訴處理辦法裡面的第18條裡面有去規定到說"},{"start":13497.8,"end":13501.8,"text":"地方主管機關如果受理了職場性騷擾的案件"},{"start":13501.8,"end":13504.8,"text":"做完的這個處理結果的部分的話"},{"start":13504.8,"end":13508.8,"text":"其實要用書面通知給申訴人跟被申訴人"},{"start":13508.8,"end":13511.8,"text":"那委員這邊就是進一步有"},{"start":13511.8,"end":13513.8,"text":"詢詢或是有提建議到說"},{"start":13513.8,"end":13517.8,"text":"為了進一步保障到後續這一個申訴人"},{"start":13517.8,"end":13522.8,"text":"他可能相關後面的司法的一些資源的整備的部分的話"},{"start":13522.8,"end":13524.8,"text":"那可能關於這個部分的話"},{"start":13524.8,"end":13526.8,"text":"我們這邊會在會同相關的"},{"start":13526.8,"end":13530.8,"text":"跟地方再做一個相關議題的研議"},{"start":13531.42,"end":13533.42,"text":"你們要研議多久"},{"start":13533.63,"end":13535.63,"text":"什麼時候可以研議完成"},{"start":13535.91,"end":13537.91,"text":"好"},{"start":13537.12,"end":13539.12,"text":"我們"},{"start":13538.81,"end":13540.81,"text":"這邊可能"},{"start":13541.44,"end":13543.44,"text":"在跟地方這邊在"},{"start":13543.44,"end":13545.44,"text":"在溝通的部分的話可以"},{"start":13545.44,"end":13547.44,"text":"委員可以"},{"start":13547.25,"end":13549.25,"text":"大概可以給我們"},{"start":13549.39,"end":13551.39,"text":"兩個兩到三個月"},{"start":13551.39,"end":13553.39,"text":"對謝謝"},{"start":13553.52,"end":13555.52,"text":"那時候我可能也從這裡畢業了"},{"start":13557.15,"end":13559.15,"text":"好我想是這樣"},{"start":13559.15,"end":13561.15,"text":"那你們起碼我是不是可以在兩週內"},{"start":13561.15,"end":13565.15,"text":"可以來啟動安排這個會議"},{"start":13565.2,"end":13568.2,"text":"你總要總要開始有動作嘛"},{"start":13568.2,"end":13572.2,"text":"不然通常喔這個行政機關啊說這個兩三個月"},{"start":13572.2,"end":13575.2,"text":"其實都是有時候常常壓到很後面啦"},{"start":13575.2,"end":13577.2,"text":"那在過去"},{"start":13577.2,"end":13579.2,"text":"有一些單位喔"},{"start":13579.2,"end":13581.2,"text":"甚至部長都交代了"},{"start":13582.43,"end":13584.43,"text":"我半年過去了"},{"start":13584.43,"end":13586.43,"text":"沒有進度然後部長又要再重新"},{"start":13586.43,"end":13588.43,"text":"對不起然後重新再"},{"start":13588.43,"end":13590.43,"text":"要求"},{"start":13590.43,"end":13592.43,"text":"壓日期一次"},{"start":13592.43,"end":13594.43,"text":"所以這個往返之間可能就一年過去了"},{"start":13595.63,"end":13597.63,"text":"所以本消息喔你們"},{"start":13597.63,"end":13599.63,"text":"兩週是很"},{"start":13599.21,"end":13601.21,"text":"很滿寬限的時間"},{"start":13601.21,"end":13603.21,"text":"我是要求你們要開始啟動這個工作嗎"},{"start":13607.14,"end":13609.14,"text":"啟動這個研議啊"},{"start":13609.14,"end":13611.14,"text":"好我們這邊就是先來做一個"},{"start":13611.14,"end":13613.14,"text":"規劃這個會議的相關研議"},{"start":13613.14,"end":13615.14,"text":"好那今天現在是"},{"start":13615.14,"end":13617.14,"text":"現在是"},{"start":13617.14,"end":13619.14,"text":"八月嘛"},{"start":13619.14,"end":13621.14,"text":"那你們啟動之後"},{"start":13621.14,"end":13623.14,"text":"我是希望"},{"start":13623.14,"end":13625.14,"text":"在就是說"},{"start":13625.14,"end":13627.14,"text":"大概在十月的時候"},{"start":13627.14,"end":13629.14,"text":"好十月中旬"},{"start":13629.14,"end":13631.14,"text":"可以有一個比較初步的"},{"start":13631.14,"end":13633.14,"text":"一個結果"},{"start":13633.7,"end":13635.7,"text":"好這邊再把相關的一些"},{"start":13635.7,"end":13637.7,"text":"研議的結果再"},{"start":13637.7,"end":13639.7,"text":"再回覆委員"},{"start":13639.7,"end":13641.7,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":13641.7,"end":13643.7,"text":"這個案子"},{"start":13643.7,"end":13645.7,"text":"在最近當然監察院"},{"start":13645.7,"end":13647.7,"text":"也針對台北市"},{"start":13647.7,"end":13649.7,"text":"台北市政府的勞動局提出糾正"},{"start":13649.7,"end":13651.7,"text":"那指出這個勞動局在"},{"start":13651.7,"end":13653.7,"text":"接獲通報的時候呢"},{"start":13653.7,"end":13655.7,"text":"沒有落實跨局處的橫向聯繫"},{"start":13655.7,"end":13657.7,"text":"跟這個性侵害"},{"start":13657.7,"end":13659.7,"text":"責任通報"},{"start":13659.7,"end":13661.7,"text":"那他們也沒有積極督導"},{"start":13661.7,"end":13663.7,"text":"這個僱主提供被害人完整的保護"},{"start":13663.7,"end":13665.7,"text":"我想要請教"},{"start":13665.7,"end":13667.7,"text":"這樣的這個"}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輪爆 兩個人遭起訴"},{"start":14689.71,"end":14691.71,"text":"在新北厚"},{"start":14692.25,"end":14694.25,"text":"張 約一名未曾遇上女"},{"start":14694.25,"end":14696.25,"text":"在車上將含有"},{"start":14696.25,"end":14698.25,"text":"這個一瓶帕茲的成分的電子菸彈"},{"start":14698.25,"end":14700.25,"text":"交給一名女子吸食"},{"start":14700.25,"end":14702.25,"text":"吸食之後就失去意識"},{"start":14702.25,"end":14704.25,"text":"兩人輪流在車內進行性交"},{"start":14704.25,"end":14706.25,"text":"第四案"},{"start":14708.97,"end":14710.97,"text":"喪屍菸彈輪流性侵工具"},{"start":14710.97,"end":14712.97,"text":"惡染毒害國中少女拍性影像"},{"start":14715.81,"end":14717.81,"text":"這個內容 我想"},{"start":14717.81,"end":14719.81,"text":"我再簡單講一下"},{"start":14719.81,"end":14721.81,"text":"A染在住戶處 先後兩度邀請未滿16歲的咪咪到場"},{"start":14721.81,"end":14723.81,"text":"A染心懷不軌提供"},{"start":14723.81,"end":14725.81,"text":"俗稱的喪屍菸彈的電子菸給"},{"start":14725.81,"end":14727.81,"text":"美女在吸食後"},{"start":14727.81,"end":14729.81,"text":"A染要效發作"},{"start":14729.81,"end":14731.81,"text":"導致中心神經受損 整個人陷入昏迷"},{"start":14731.81,"end":14733.81,"text":"恍惚"},{"start":14733.81,"end":14735.81,"text":"然後肌肉不自主的抽動"},{"start":14735.81,"end":14737.81,"text":"最後昏迷再闖"},{"start":14737.81,"end":14739.81,"text":"A染又再度 約一名也到桃園"},{"start":14739.81,"end":14741.81,"text":"另外的主居所"},{"start":14741.81,"end":14743.81,"text":"然後故計重施提供喪屍菸彈"},{"start":14743.81,"end":14745.81,"text":"即便咪咪裡曾口頭拒絕"},{"start":14745.81,"end":14747.81,"text":"A染還是趁這個"},{"start":14747.81,"end":14749.81,"text":"要效發作 意識模糊"},{"start":14749.81,"end":14751.81,"text":"就強行猥褻"},{"start":14751.81,"end":14753.81,"text":"我為什麼要講這四個案件"},{"start":14753.81,"end":14755.81,"text":"全部通通是"},{"start":14755.81,"end":14757.81,"text":"用電子菸喪屍菸彈來進行犯案"},{"start":14759.09,"end":14761.09,"text":"哪有成員 衛生員的女性都有"},{"start":14761.09,"end":14763.09,"text":"甚至有的警覺"},{"start":14763.09,"end":14765.09,"text":"到最後被騙"},{"start":14764.95,"end":14768.95,"text":"然後都在非自願的情況下被侵害"},{"start":14768.95,"end":14770.95,"text":"現在這個電子菸加"},{"start":14772.46,"end":14774.46,"text":"上屍菸彈"},{"start":14774.46,"end":14776.46,"text":"在街頭上又可能隨時害人家的生命"},{"start":14776.46,"end":14778.46,"text":"然後"},{"start":14778.46,"end":14780.46,"text":"列入這些心存不軌的人的手上"},{"start":14780.46,"end":14782.46,"text":"也會變成摧毀人一生的"},{"start":14782.46,"end":14784.46,"text":"這樣的一個毒氣"},{"start":14784.46,"end":14786.46,"text":"而且台灣已經"},{"start":14786.46,"end":14788.46,"text":"嚴禁者東西"},{"start":14788.46,"end":14790.46,"text":"我助理今天在"},{"start":14790.46,"end":14792.46,"text":"苦果上隨便說一說"},{"start":14792.46,"end":14794.46,"text":"找到這種購買的網頁"},{"start":14794.46,"end":14796.46,"text":"到今天這個時間"},{"start":14796.46,"end":14798.46,"text":"還存在"},{"start":14799.05,"end":14801.05,"text":"請次長 各位長官看一下"},{"start":14802.7,"end":14804.7,"text":"當你的親戚 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全政署"},{"start":14911.19,"end":14913.19,"text":"等等"},{"start":14913.19,"end":14915.19,"text":"所有單位都要動起來嘛"},{"start":14915.19,"end":14917.19,"text":"那自然可以先簡單"},{"start":14918.34,"end":14920.34,"text":"OK"},{"start":14920.34,"end":14922.34,"text":"陳虎剛剛委員說"},{"start":14922.34,"end":14924.34,"text":"這個真的是"},{"start":14924.34,"end":14926.34,"text":"這種上次煙誕造成的"},{"start":14926.34,"end":14928.34,"text":"這個社會的危害"},{"start":14928.34,"end":14930.34,"text":"那我們這裡面其實"},{"start":14930.34,"end":14932.34,"text":"我們有一個跨部會的一個"},{"start":14932.34,"end":14934.34,"text":"就是陳虎委員剛剛說的"},{"start":14934.34,"end":14936.34,"text":"他有司法機關海關"},{"start":14936.34,"end":14938.34,"text":"速發部"},{"start":14938.34,"end":14940.34,"text":"那這裡面"},{"start":14939.42,"end":14941.42,"text":"就衛福部這邊"},{"start":14941.42,"end":14943.42,"text":"我們主要大概會"},{"start":14943.42,"end":14945.42,"text":"我們會從源頭的部分"},{"start":14945.42,"end":14947.42,"text":"盡量來"},{"start":14947.42,"end":14949.42,"text":"我們必須來減少"},{"start":14949.42,"end":14951.42,"text":"違法產品的流通跟使用"},{"start":14951.42,"end":14953.42,"text":"那這邊我是不是也請"},{"start":14953.42,"end":14955.42,"text":"這一個國建署這邊再做一個相關"},{"start":14955.42,"end":14957.42,"text":"請說明"},{"start":14957.42,"end":14959.42,"text":"我要講說這個你不要主動巡查"},{"start":14959.42,"end":14961.42,"text":"你們什麼時候"},{"start":14961.42,"end":14963.42,"text":"什麼時候可以實時進行監控"},{"start":14963.42,"end":14965.42,"text":"與防毒"},{"start":14965.42,"end":14967.42,"text":"還是現在都還沒有"},{"start":14968.26,"end":14970.26,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":14970.26,"end":14972.26,"text":"目前在做這個"},{"start":14972.26,"end":14974.26,"text":"相關電子煙防治的部分"},{"start":14974.26,"end":14976.26,"text":"確實陳虎委員"},{"start":14976.26,"end":14978.26,"text":"關心的部分我們目前跟"},{"start":14978.26,"end":14980.26,"text":"速發部還有這個"},{"start":14980.26,"end":14982.26,"text":"相關的這個"},{"start":14982.26,"end":14984.26,"text":"單位已經在做"},{"start":14984.26,"end":14986.26,"text":"相關的防查那速發部"},{"start":14986.26,"end":14988.26,"text":"有啟動AI巡查的部分"},{"start":14988.26,"end":14990.26,"text":"在協助找到"},{"start":14990.26,"end":14992.26,"text":"這個相關的資訊"},{"start":14992.26,"end":14994.26,"text":"那你現在在幫速發部答覆嗎"},{"start":14994.26,"end":14996.26,"text":"那你可以一併答覆"},{"start":14996.26,"end":14998.26,"text":"速發部在8月1號"},{"start":14998.26,"end":15000.26,"text":"一直到今天"},{"start":15000.26,"end":15002.26,"text":"黃紙下架類似這樣的產品"},{"start":15002.26,"end":15004.26,"text":"有幾件"},{"start":15008.72,"end":15010.72,"text":"我跟你講我們從678"},{"start":15010.72,"end":15012.72,"text":"是國建署要幫他回答的"},{"start":15012.72,"end":15014.72,"text":"那就請國建署持續幫他回答"},{"start":15015.39,"end":15017.39,"text":"我想報告以後到8月3號"},{"start":15017.39,"end":15019.39,"text":"今天26號嘛"},{"start":15019.39,"end":15021.39,"text":"黃紙下架這樣的案件有幾件"},{"start":15023.3,"end":15025.3,"text":"為什麼這個已經下架"},{"start":15025.3,"end":15027.3,"text":"然後馬上起死回生"},{"start":15027.08,"end":15029.08,"text":"這你們有掌握到嗎"},{"start":15029.08,"end":15031.08,"text":"以這一件來講"},{"start":15031.08,"end":15033.08,"text":"速發部只要接受到"},{"start":15033.08,"end":15035.08,"text":"相關的違法的網域"},{"start":15035.08,"end":15037.08,"text":"或是網頁一定是"},{"start":15037.08,"end":15039.08,"text":"會立即做下架的程序"},{"start":15039.08,"end":15041.08,"text":"統計數字可能我們"},{"start":15041.08,"end":15043.08,"text":"可能要還要再"},{"start":15043.08,"end":15045.08,"text":"再統計之後才會跟委員說"},{"start":15045.08,"end":15047.08,"text":"8月以後到現在沒有辦法"},{"start":15047.08,"end":15049.08,"text":"那7月"},{"start":15049.08,"end":15051.08,"text":"我們要再統計才好"},{"start":15051.11,"end":15053.11,"text":"因為我們是在6、7月就開始討論"},{"start":15053.11,"end":15055.11,"text":"一頭彌尺對不對"},{"start":15055.11,"end":15057.11,"text":"電子煙跟一頭彌尺"},{"start":15057.11,"end":15059.11,"text":"就是深度的綁在一塊"},{"start":15059.11,"end":15061.11,"text":"這個已經是一個"},{"start":15061.11,"end":15063.11,"text":"現在進行式"},{"start":15063.11,"end":15065.11,"text":"那你們現在看到這個東西很清楚"},{"start":15065.11,"end":15067.11,"text":"這個有被下架"},{"start":15067.11,"end":15069.11,"text":"然後再跑上來的"},{"start":15069.15,"end":15071.15,"text":"這個什麼狀況"},{"start":15071.15,"end":15073.15,"text":"能不能導入我一下"},{"start":15073.42,"end":15075.42,"text":"像這樣的樣態是什麼狀況"},{"start":15075.42,"end":15077.42,"text":"那你們怎麼處理"},{"start":15078.55,"end":15080.55,"text":"他連QR code都還留著"},{"start":15084.07,"end":15086.07,"text":"你們要不要回答我幾件沒關係"},{"start":15086.07,"end":15088.07,"text":"不勉強"},{"start":15088.07,"end":15090.07,"text":"他已經被下架然後又馬上跑出來"},{"start":15090.4,"end":15092.4,"text":"這什麼狀況"},{"start":15092.59,"end":15094.59,"text":"可以怎麼應應"},{"start":15098.52,"end":15100.52,"text":"委員只要有任何發現這個"},{"start":15100.52,"end":15102.52,"text":"有任何網域有需要下架"},{"start":15102.52,"end":15104.52,"text":"我們會立即做下架的程序"},{"start":15104.52,"end":15106.52,"text":"那其實我們也在"},{"start":15106.52,"end":15108.52,"text":"持續的這個做相關的"},{"start":15108.52,"end":15110.52,"text":"這個收集或下架程序"},{"start":15110.52,"end":15112.52,"text":"不是我只是講我說用這個實例來"},{"start":15112.52,"end":15114.52,"text":"講給你聽嘛這個之前被下架"},{"start":15114.52,"end":15116.52,"text":"不到一天兩天就又跑上來了"},{"start":15117.84,"end":15119.84,"text":"這個你們到底怎麼應應處理"},{"start":15119.84,"end":15121.84,"text":"你就簡單跟委員做個說明"},{"start":15123.61,"end":15125.61,"text":"還是你不曉得這樣的一個樣態"},{"start":15125.61,"end":15127.61,"text":"其實我們只要有碰到"},{"start":15127.61,"end":15129.61,"text":"只要違法我就做下架"},{"start":15129.61,"end":15131.61,"text":"但是這個數字我可能沒辦法"},{"start":15131.61,"end":15133.61,"text":"我可能現在沒辦法"},{"start":15133.61,"end":15135.61,"text":"我現在已經沒有問你數字了"},{"start":15135.61,"end":15137.61,"text":"對不對 我是想說現在"},{"start":15137.61,"end":15139.61,"text":"這樣的一個樣態"},{"start":15139.61,"end":15141.61,"text":"他被下架不到一兩天又跑上來"},{"start":15141.61,"end":15143.61,"text":"是什麼狀況"},{"start":15143.45,"end":15145.45,"text":"你們的黃賭機制"},{"start":15145.45,"end":15147.45,"text":"是不是有些問題"},{"start":15147.45,"end":15149.45,"text":"需要再去做調整修正"},{"start":15150.37,"end":15152.37,"text":"那如果就對照剛剛"},{"start":15152.41,"end":15154.41,"text":"為什麼打我的"},{"start":15153.93,"end":15155.93,"text":"那個機制是一年"},{"start":15157.49,"end":15159.49,"text":"委員我前面那個我先要補正"},{"start":15159.49,"end":15161.49,"text":"不可能一年我回去"},{"start":15161.49,"end":15163.49,"text":"除非你可以補正我也要相信"},{"start":15163.49,"end":15165.49,"text":"但是你可以"},{"start":15165.49,"end":15167.49,"text":"補正不用一年不久"},{"start":15169.02,"end":15171.02,"text":"我們半天的時間可以嗎"},{"start":15171.02,"end":15173.02,"text":"好"},{"start":15173.02,"end":15175.02,"text":"主席做情"},{"start":15175.02,"end":15177.02,"text":"所有的官員也做情"},{"start":15177.02,"end":15179.02,"text":"我給委員一個交代"},{"start":15179.02,"end":15181.02,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":15181.02,"end":15183.02,"text":"你如果半天不理"},{"start":15183.02,"end":15185.02,"text":"又快點不起來"},{"start":15185.02,"end":15187.02,"text":"還跟我說關鍵字還要去搜尋"},{"start":15186.89,"end":15188.89,"text":"還要去處理"},{"start":15190.13,"end":15192.13,"text":"處理不起來"},{"start":15192.1,"end":15194.1,"text":"好"},{"start":15193.42,"end":15195.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15195.42,"end":15197.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15197.42,"end":15199.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15199.42,"end":15201.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15201.42,"end":15203.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15203.42,"end":15205.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15205.42,"end":15207.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15207.42,"end":15209.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15209.42,"end":15211.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15211.42,"end":15213.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15213.42,"end":15215.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15215.42,"end":15217.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15217.42,"end":15219.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15219.42,"end":15221.42,"text":"報告"},{"start":15207.36,"end":15209.36,"text":"所以補一下"},{"start":15209.36,"end":15211.36,"text":"對自己補正"},{"start":15211.54,"end":15213.54,"text":"好"},{"start":15212.51,"end":15214.51,"text":"這點先給我回答"},{"start":15214.51,"end":15216.51,"text":"誰要下架沒有時間再做出來"},{"start":15216.88,"end":15218.88,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":15220.42,"end":15222.42,"text":"委員好"},{"start":15222.42,"end":15224.42,"text":"他其實就是會一直在換網域"},{"start":15224.42,"end":15226.42,"text":"但是我們只要收到相關違法網域"},{"start":15226.42,"end":15228.42,"text":"我們就是兩個小時內會做"},{"start":15228.42,"end":15230.42,"text":"相關的下架程序"},{"start":15230.42,"end":15232.42,"text":"兩個小時嗎"},{"start":15232.42,"end":15234.42,"text":"這個從昨天到現在"},{"start":15234.42,"end":15236.42,"text":"但是這個可能要有相關的"},{"start":15236.42,"end":15238.42,"text":"確定他做違法的時候"},{"start":15238.42,"end":15240.42,"text":"我們會做立即"},{"start":15240.42,"end":15242.42,"text":"做下架的程序"},{"start":15242.48,"end":15244.48,"text":"這個就是違法"},{"start":15244.48,"end":15246.48,"text":"下面這兩支"},{"start":15246.48,"end":15248.48,"text":"一個粉紅色的一個紫色的"},{"start":15248.48,"end":15250.48,"text":"他就是違法了"},{"start":15250.48,"end":15252.48,"text":"很明顯的標的物"},{"start":15252.48,"end":15254.48,"text":"這就是違法的標的物"},{"start":15254.48,"end":15256.48,"text":"不得在台灣的網狀上看得到"},{"start":15259.32,"end":15261.32,"text":"是"},{"start":15260.63,"end":15264.63,"text":"主要如果有主管機關發現他是違法"},{"start":15264.63,"end":15266.63,"text":"我們就做兩個小時內下架"},{"start":15266.63,"end":15268.63,"text":"這樣好不好"},{"start":15268.63,"end":15270.63,"text":"你把這個大致上我們就講三個月就好"},{"start":15270.63,"end":15272.63,"text":"六七八"},{"start":15272.63,"end":15274.63,"text":"也不到三個月"},{"start":15274.63,"end":15276.63,"text":"我們已經有黃土的下架的件數"},{"start":15276.63,"end":15278.63,"text":"是不是揮霍給我"},{"start":15278.63,"end":15280.63,"text":"好不好揮霍給我"},{"start":15280.63,"end":15282.63,"text":"像這一個已經認定是違法"},{"start":15282.63,"end":15284.63,"text":"也要求他下架的"},{"start":15284.63,"end":15286.63,"text":"下架之後又跑上來的"},{"start":15286.63,"end":15288.63,"text":"不到多久跑上來的"},{"start":15288.63,"end":15290.63,"text":"同屬"},{"start":15290.63,"end":15292.63,"text":"這樣的一個廣告"},{"start":15293.4,"end":15295.4,"text":"那你們怎麼處分"},{"start":15295.4,"end":15297.4,"text":"然後"},{"start":15297.4,"end":15299.4,"text":"多久時間掌握到"},{"start":15299.4,"end":15301.4,"text":"同樣違法的這個廣告"},{"start":15301.4,"end":15303.4,"text":"你們又採取什麼措施"},{"start":15303.4,"end":15305.4,"text":"當然一定是要求他下架"},{"start":15305.4,"end":15307.4,"text":"那後續的法律上的罰則你們又是怎麼處理"},{"start":15308.54,"end":15310.54,"text":"相關的這些處理的"},{"start":15310.54,"end":15312.54,"text":"報告也給委員做參考"},{"start":15312.54,"end":15314.54,"text":"所以我是說"},{"start":15314.54,"end":15316.54,"text":"你們一定要實時進行監控跟黃土"},{"start":15316.54,"end":15318.54,"text":"那這個機制"},{"start":15319.81,"end":15321.81,"text":"應該你們也有設定主動的巡查"},{"start":15321.81,"end":15323.81,"text":"應該都有嘛"},{"start":15324.69,"end":15326.69,"text":"是"},{"start":15327.42,"end":15329.42,"text":"這位是"},{"start":15329.67,"end":15331.67,"text":"我們素材署會補充一下"},{"start":15331.67,"end":15333.67,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":15334.5,"end":15336.5,"text":"對對對"},{"start":15336.82,"end":15340.82,"text":"市長我們其實有一個防災的這個聯防平台"},{"start":15340.82,"end":15342.82,"text":"所以在這裡面大概會有四大"},{"start":15342.82,"end":15344.82,"text":"網路廣告平台"},{"start":15344.82,"end":15346.82,"text":"然後在這個成員裡面"},{"start":15346.82,"end":15348.82,"text":"那我們大概定期的會"},{"start":15348.82,"end":15350.82,"text":"針對各部會有需要的"},{"start":15350.82,"end":15352.82,"text":"這個部分要求網路廣告平台"},{"start":15352.82,"end":15354.82,"text":"來做一個處理"},{"start":15354.82,"end":15356.82,"text":"所以呢這個部分的話大概"},{"start":15356.82,"end":15358.82,"text":"衛福部這邊有提出有需要"},{"start":15358.82,"end":15360.82,"text":"有這樣子的一個關鍵字巡查的部分"},{"start":15360.82,"end":15362.82,"text":"我們其實事實上"},{"start":15362.82,"end":15364.82,"text":"也有就是"},{"start":15364.82,"end":15366.82,"text":"我們有巡查到我們也是會定期的提供給這個衛福部做確認"},{"start":15366.82,"end":15368.82,"text":"一旦確認它是"},{"start":15368.82,"end":15370.82,"text":"就會通知我們的這個"},{"start":15370.82,"end":15372.82,"text":"資源室主管的這個"},{"start":15372.82,"end":15374.82,"text":"在兩個小時之內去做一個下架"},{"start":15376.9,"end":15378.9,"text":"沒有你現在答案是跟我們第一題"},{"start":15380.13,"end":15382.13,"text":"你現在答案我是第一題"},{"start":15382.13,"end":15384.13,"text":"我現在就講第二題了"},{"start":15385.27,"end":15387.27,"text":"對就是我們提到說"},{"start":15387.27,"end":15389.27,"text":"有沒有可以協助去做網路的巡查"},{"start":15389.27,"end":15391.27,"text":"的這一塊"},{"start":15391.27,"end":15393.27,"text":"一樣兩件事情都是要網路上的巡查"},{"start":15393.27,"end":15395.27,"text":"沒有錯對"},{"start":15395.27,"end":15397.27,"text":"像這種廣告基本上它已經違法了"},{"start":15397.27,"end":15399.27,"text":"它被下架了"},{"start":15399.27,"end":15401.27,"text":"怎麼馬上又不過一天兩天"},{"start":15401.27,"end":15403.27,"text":"就跑上來"},{"start":15403.27,"end":15405.27,"text":"那你們怎麼樣的一個處理的機制"},{"start":15405.27,"end":15407.27,"text":"跟我們報告其實剛剛那個"},{"start":15407.27,"end":15409.27,"text":"資源室已經有提到沒有錯"},{"start":15409.27,"end":15411.27,"text":"因為其實這些就跟詐騙一樣"},{"start":15411.27,"end":15413.27,"text":"他們常常會在很多個的網域"},{"start":15413.27,"end":15415.27,"text":"然後一直不斷的去把它"},{"start":15415.27,"end":15417.27,"text":"重新的去再上架"},{"start":15417.27,"end":15419.27,"text":"那一旦有上架以後"},{"start":15419.27,"end":15421.27,"text":"有人發現主管機關只要是確認"},{"start":15421.27,"end":15423.27,"text":"因為這個部分的話畢竟"},{"start":15423.27,"end":15425.27,"text":"它還是需要去做行政處分"},{"start":15425.27,"end":15427.27,"text":"才能夠去把它下架"},{"start":15427.27,"end":15429.27,"text":"所以其實衛福部一旦確認"},{"start":15429.27,"end":15431.27,"text":"我們就會立刻去做下架的動作"},{"start":15431.27,"end":15433.27,"text":"衛福部要去做確認"},{"start":15433.27,"end":15435.27,"text":"對它必須確認"},{"start":15435.27,"end":15437.27,"text":"衛福部是在最前端去做"},{"start":15437.27,"end":15439.27,"text":"這個巡查"},{"start":15439.27,"end":15441.27,"text":"巡查我們也有協助在巡查"},{"start":15441.27,"end":15443.27,"text":"可是巡查到了以後我們就會提供給衛福部說"},{"start":15443.27,"end":15445.27,"text":"確認這個部分是不是"},{"start":15445.27,"end":15447.27,"text":"因為畢竟我們在網路上面的巡查"},{"start":15447.27,"end":15449.27,"text":"我們沒有辦法去做最終的確認說"},{"start":15449.27,"end":15451.27,"text":"它是不是就是一個電子煙的廣告"},{"start":15451.27,"end":15453.27,"text":"對"},{"start":15453.27,"end":15455.27,"text":"這一個不是直言了當就很清楚"},{"start":15455.27,"end":15457.27,"text":"不然這是什麼東西"},{"start":15457.45,"end":15459.45,"text":"因為這個部分還是要去"},{"start":15459.45,"end":15461.45,"text":"一次性有油就有電"},{"start":15461.45,"end":15463.45,"text":"油量透明 餘量一目了然"},{"start":15463.45,"end":15465.45,"text":"部委員那個政策是這樣"},{"start":15465.45,"end":15467.45,"text":"他們現在剛才事發部就是說"},{"start":15467.45,"end":15469.45,"text":"應該在那裡查對不對"},{"start":15469.45,"end":15471.45,"text":"查完他們現在不是只有衛福部而已"},{"start":15471.45,"end":15473.45,"text":"各個單位 以這個案例"},{"start":15473.45,"end":15475.45,"text":"衛福部主責 我們這邊一旦收到之後"},{"start":15475.45,"end":15477.45,"text":"部長他下達命令了"},{"start":15478.39,"end":15480.39,"text":"這是"},{"start":15479.4,"end":15481.4,"text":"寧可錯殺也不能錯放"},{"start":15481.4,"end":15483.4,"text":"周越來"},{"start":15483.4,"end":15485.4,"text":"我也有先認過去"},{"start":15485.4,"end":15487.4,"text":"有計案確實比較久"},{"start":15487.4,"end":15489.4,"text":"但是從中朝2高位以前"},{"start":15489.4,"end":15491.4,"text":"我們莊市現在註實了"},{"start":15491.4,"end":15493.4,"text":"數字上已經大幅下降"},{"start":15493.4,"end":15495.4,"text":"我們現在就是說反正如果有這個情況的話"},{"start":15495.4,"end":15497.4,"text":"馬上就是"},{"start":15497.07,"end":15499.07,"text":"你剛才說行政處分我們這邊馬上就處理掉了"},{"start":15499.07,"end":15501.07,"text":"好啦沒關係我不好意思喔"},{"start":15501.07,"end":15503.07,"text":"可能各位剛剛應該"},{"start":15503.07,"end":15505.07,"text":"沒有在"},{"start":15505.25,"end":15507.25,"text":"你們可能是故意把我"},{"start":15507.25,"end":15509.25,"text":"牽到旁邊去"},{"start":15509.25,"end":15511.25,"text":"我只是講說這個已經被你們"},{"start":15511.25,"end":15513.25,"text":"下架了 都到藝人廳要跑上來"},{"start":15513.25,"end":15515.25,"text":"你們怎麼做"},{"start":15515.25,"end":15517.25,"text":"後續的處理啦"},{"start":15519.34,"end":15521.34,"text":"這個明顯就是威華的嘛"},{"start":15522.45,"end":15524.45,"text":"他有法律上相關的法者你們必須要"},{"start":15524.45,"end":15526.45,"text":"這個沒有叫做錯殺的問題"},{"start":15526.45,"end":15528.45,"text":"我這一題"},{"start":15528.45,"end":15530.45,"text":"就是沒有錯殺的問題"},{"start":15530.45,"end":15532.45,"text":"我這一題就是一個破題的就是說"},{"start":15532.45,"end":15534.45,"text":"你們到底怎麼處理這個已經被你們"},{"start":15534.45,"end":15536.45,"text":"下架然後又馬上跑上來"},{"start":15536.45,"end":15538.45,"text":"然後跑到現在有人"},{"start":15538.45,"end":15540.45,"text":"剛剛不管是蘇澳部或其他單位打我"},{"start":15540.45,"end":15542.45,"text":"只要有人在巡返上然後就會通報"},{"start":15542.45,"end":15544.45,"text":"你衛福部然後去做怎樣的相關"},{"start":15544.45,"end":15546.45,"text":"應用對不對"},{"start":15546.45,"end":15548.45,"text":"但是你們一天多了啊"},{"start":15548.45,"end":15550.45,"text":"你們就是通通沒有人啊"},{"start":15552.27,"end":15554.27,"text":"你們的人就是你們的人就是我啊"},{"start":15555.44,"end":15557.44,"text":"我現在提問給你們啊"},{"start":15559.83,"end":15561.83,"text":"你們怎麼處理啊"},{"start":15561.83,"end":15563.83,"text":"我們現在就實地操作啊"},{"start":15564.47,"end":15566.47,"text":"你為什麼不答我這個問題咧"},{"start":15566.47,"end":15568.47,"text":"剛剛什麼起見起見我就說會不會再處理了"},{"start":15568.47,"end":15570.47,"text":"現在就針對這一題"},{"start":15570.47,"end":15572.47,"text":"我就跟你講說像他已經被你們"},{"start":15572.47,"end":15574.47,"text":"下架了你們怎麼做處分"},{"start":15574.47,"end":15576.47,"text":"然後現在又跑上來了"},{"start":15575.94,"end":15577.94,"text":"已經一天多了"},{"start":15580.7,"end":15582.7,"text":"那裡面怎麼會這麼單位"},{"start":15582.7,"end":15584.7,"text":"通通沒有人主張在提供給你衛福部"},{"start":15584.7,"end":15586.7,"text":"最後要怎麼做立即的處理"},{"start":15590.98,"end":15592.98,"text":"你知不知道這一天就多了多少情緒兩邊都看到了"},{"start":15594.74,"end":15596.74,"text":"你知不知道這一天就多了他的QR Code就多了"},{"start":15596.74,"end":15598.74,"text":"讓對手做相關的這些連結"},{"start":15600.55,"end":15602.55,"text":"我現在公司裡面的音樂速度是有問題的嘛"},{"start":15602.55,"end":15604.55,"text":"你跟我說有人"},{"start":15604.55,"end":15606.55,"text":"對啊有人就沒有人提供給你啊"},{"start":15606.55,"end":15608.55,"text":"我現在提供給你啊那他多久可以下架啊"},{"start":15608.55,"end":15610.55,"text":"如果類似的案件"},{"start":15610.55,"end":15612.55,"text":"像這個已經被下架"},{"start":15612.55,"end":15614.55,"text":"然後又馬上又上架"},{"start":15614.55,"end":15616.55,"text":"然後已經過了一天24小時以上了"},{"start":15616.55,"end":15618.55,"text":"還到現在還沒有下架"},{"start":15618.55,"end":15620.55,"text":"那整個你們的機制是有問題的啊"},{"start":15623.24,"end":15625.24,"text":"好啦委員這個保護是否允許我"},{"start":15625.24,"end":15627.24,"text":"我直接結束後"},{"start":15627.24,"end":15629.24,"text":"我直接去處理處發部部長這樣"},{"start":15629.24,"end":15631.24,"text":"沒有啦我還沒好啦"},{"start":15631.77,"end":15633.77,"text":"我都沒好我不是直接問你"},{"start":15633.77,"end":15635.77,"text":"因為我問你沒好啊"},{"start":15635.77,"end":15637.77,"text":"現在醫託名詞又多一個義病怕死"},{"start":15637.77,"end":15639.77,"text":"義病怕死6月在宜蘭"},{"start":15639.77,"end":15641.77,"text":"被迫到這個制毒的工廠"},{"start":15641.77,"end":15643.77,"text":"這兩位是同屬於家族"},{"start":15643.77,"end":15645.77,"text":"這是已經很嚴重的警訊"},{"start":15645.77,"end":15647.77,"text":"這種毒品的東西"},{"start":15647.77,"end":15649.77,"text":"跟電子煙深度板定的時候"},{"start":15649.77,"end":15651.77,"text":"對我們青少年的危害"},{"start":15654.06,"end":15656.06,"text":"當然啦"},{"start":15656.06,"end":15658.06,"text":"這個很難用言語去形容"},{"start":15658.06,"end":15660.06,"text":"那我剛剛開場白講說"},{"start":15660.06,"end":15664.06,"text":"國健署的調查公佈114年青少年吸煙"},{"start":15664.06,"end":15666.06,"text":"行為調查結果他是講吸煙"},{"start":15666.06,"end":15668.06,"text":"然後這個"},{"start":15668.06,"end":15670.06,"text":"國中及高中生"},{"start":15671.44,"end":15673.44,"text":"電子煙的水溫頻率分點2.1%到5.1%"},{"start":15673.44,"end":15675.44,"text":"我們都很清楚"},{"start":15675.44,"end":15677.44,"text":"是啦"},{"start":15677.44,"end":15679.44,"text":"是幾倍的"},{"start":15679.44,"end":15681.44,"text":"但你相對不是4萬名青少年"},{"start":15681.44,"end":15683.44,"text":"是幾萬名然後他又拿來當成"},{"start":15683.44,"end":15685.44,"text":"他的性侵的"},{"start":15685.44,"end":15687.44,"text":"犯罪的工具"},{"start":15689.06,"end":15691.06,"text":"現在開車回家"},{"start":15691.71,"end":15693.71,"text":"青少年的這個女性"},{"start":15693.71,"end":15695.71,"text":"也因為如果吸食電子煙"},{"start":15695.71,"end":15697.71,"text":"他又更加危險"},{"start":15699.1,"end":15701.1,"text":"青少年的一個成長過程裡面"},{"start":15701.61,"end":15703.61,"text":"就因為電子煙"},{"start":15703.61,"end":15705.61,"text":"我們要去以內去"},{"start":15705.61,"end":15707.61,"text":"這樣的一個毒品"},{"start":15707.61,"end":15709.61,"text":"異多名死還有這個異病怕死等等"},{"start":15710.07,"end":15712.07,"text":"所以你們的所得"},{"start":15712.07,"end":15714.07,"text":"我們在委員會也不一定"},{"start":15714.07,"end":15716.07,"text":"一直拜吃的"},{"start":15717.3,"end":15719.3,"text":"專案的討論"},{"start":15719.3,"end":15721.3,"text":"我收這麼多法就對了"},{"start":15721.3,"end":15723.3,"text":"發射完你們的所得"},{"start":15723.3,"end":15725.3,"text":"辦這款病毒"},{"start":15725.35,"end":15727.35,"text":"對啦"},{"start":15727.78,"end":15729.78,"text":"時間已經到了對不起"},{"start":15729.78,"end":15731.78,"text":"謝謝召委給我多一些時間"},{"start":15731.78,"end":15733.78,"text":"市長是不是這樣"},{"start":15733.78,"end":15735.78,"text":"你做一個整合啦"},{"start":15735.78,"end":15737.78,"text":"今天我只有三個題目而已"},{"start":15737.78,"end":15739.78,"text":"這三個題目是不是可以"},{"start":15739.78,"end":15741.78,"text":"更具體的然後你們應該怎麼做"},{"start":15741.78,"end":15743.78,"text":"怎麼樣的一個期限內"},{"start":15743.78,"end":15745.78,"text":"可以達到什麼樣的一個"},{"start":15745.78,"end":15747.78,"text":"一個進展然後給委員會"},{"start":15747.78,"end":15749.78,"text":"所有委員做參考"},{"start":15749.78,"end":15751.78,"text":"不然我們社外社會再追啦"},{"start":15751.78,"end":15753.78,"text":"感謝謝謝"},{"start":15753.78,"end":15755.78,"text":"謝謝劉靖國委員發言"},{"start":15755.78,"end":15757.78,"text":"我想威爾布布剛剛履次講"},{"start":15757.78,"end":15759.78,"text":"你可能要真的招"},{"start":15759.78,"end":15761.78,"text":"書發部因為這件事情我覺得"},{"start":15761.78,"end":15763.78,"text":"剛剛劉委員提的這個東西"},{"start":15763.78,"end":15765.78,"text":"非常的重要"},{"start":15765.78,"end":15767.78,"text":"否則的話下了之後又再上"},{"start":15767.78,"end":15769.78,"text":"那你們有沒有主動巡查"},{"start":15769.78,"end":15771.78,"text":"那原來前面的巡查都是"},{"start":15771.78,"end":15773.78,"text":"沒有意義的"},{"start":15773.78,"end":15775.78,"text":"最後就還是沒有解決問題"},{"start":15779.56,"end":15781.56,"text":"履次要一個月內可以嗎"},{"start":15787.56,"end":15789.56,"text":"會議詢答全部結束"},{"start":15789.56,"end":15791.56,"text":"現在做以下決議"},{"start":15791.56,"end":15793.56,"text":"一 說明及詢答完畢"},{"start":15793.56,"end":15795.56,"text":"二 委員質詢及答"},{"start":15795.76,"end":15797.76,"text":"請補充資料者"},{"start":15797.76,"end":15799.76,"text":"請相關機關於兩周內"},{"start":15799.76,"end":15801.76,"text":"以書面答覆"},{"start":15801.76,"end":15803.76,"text":"委員令要求期限者從其所定"},{"start":15804.77,"end":15806.77,"text":"第三 委員圖權及審發會"},{"start":15806.77,"end":15808.77,"text":"蘇貞權 傅坤琪"},{"start":15808.77,"end":15810.77,"text":"王玉敏 蔡其昌 楊耀 林淑芬"},{"start":15810.77,"end":15812.77,"text":"徐新宜 徐宇哲"},{"start":15812.77,"end":15814.77,"text":"吳宗憲 沈柏楊 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