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尋答結束"},{"start":1656.06,"end":1660.26,"text":"二為傅坤琦、邱益盈、徐希盈、蘇貞昌、朱青全"},{"start":1660.26,"end":1664.1,"text":"張家晉及楊雅虹所提書面質詢6日紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":1664.1,"end":1668.38,"text":"三書面質詢後為其答覆部分請相關單位一週內以書面答覆並複製本會"},{"start":1668.38,"end":1671.1,"text":"委員另有要求期限者重新鎖定上會宣布完畢"},{"start":1672.71,"end":1675.8300000000002,"text":"好 那在場委員人數還不足三人"},{"start":1675.8300000000002,"end":1677.8300000000002,"text":"議事會等一下確定"},{"start":1677.8300000000002,"end":1680.47,"text":"那接下來我們繼續進行報告事項"},{"start":1681.17,"end":1686.21,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、財政部首長、經濟觀光委員會"},{"start":1686.81,"end":1694.09,"text":"首長、財團法人、中小企業信用保證基金首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長"},{"start":1694.09,"end":1702.01,"text":"就中小型、中小微星企業發展困境、政策需求及政府資源備至於執行成效進行報告並被質詢"},{"start":1702.01,"end":1704.01,"text":"宣布完畢"},{"start":1704.86,"end":1710.3,"text":"好 我們介紹一下今天到場的這個機關首長"},{"start":1710.3,"end":1713.1,"text":"首先經濟部政務次長何建昌"},{"start":1714.38,"end":1718.0600000000002,"text":"財政小級新創企業署首長李冠志"},{"start":1719.14,"end":1721.22,"text":"產業發展署副署長陳國軒"},{"start":1722.24,"end":1724.32,"text":"商發署副署長陳秘書"},{"start":1725.72,"end":1727.8,"text":"國貿署副署長陳佩莉"},{"start":1728.99,"end":1732.59,"text":"財團法人、中小企業信保基金總經理郭玉信"},{"start":1733.85,"end":1736.6499999999999,"text":"國家發展委員會副署長方冠"},{"start":1738,"end":1740,"text":"產業發展署署長蕭正隆"},{"start":1741.94,"end":1745.54,"text":"行政院國家發展經理會副執行事名聲"},{"start":1746.66,"end":1748.98,"text":"財政部副署署署長樓美中"},{"start":1750.14,"end":1753.42,"text":"京廣會副署長樓維珍"},{"start":1754.69,"end":1757.49,"text":"財國科會副署長吳顯飛"},{"start":1759.64,"end":1761.64,"text":"再來的話是"},{"start":1762.57,"end":1766.57,"text":"中科管理局副署長額思元芳"},{"start":1772.85,"end":1787.25,"text":"本日專題報告排定中小企業發展困境政策需求及政府資源配置與執行成效進行報告並被質詢"},{"start":1800.85,"end":1804.05,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生大家早安"},{"start":1804.05,"end":1814.9299999999998,"text":"感謝郭委員為邀請經濟部就中小微新企業發展困境政策需求及政府資源配置與執行成效進行報告"},{"start":1814.9299999999998,"end":1816.9299999999998,"text":"進行各位委員不吝指教"},{"start":1816.9299999999998,"end":1820.9299999999998,"text":"中小微企業為我國經濟韌性之核心基石"},{"start":1820.9299999999998,"end":1825.4099999999999,"text":"根據2025年中小企業白平蘇統計"},{"start":1825.4099999999999,"end":1829.6499999999999,"text":"我國中小微企業的加速達到171.6萬家"},{"start":1830.18,"end":1835.54,"text":"更承載全國約八成920萬人的勞動力"},{"start":1836.05,"end":1841.1699999999998,"text":"在出口貢獻上中小微企業創造了高達3.2兆的出口金額"},{"start":1841.1699999999998,"end":1845.6499999999999,"text":"銷售額佔全體企業比例達79.3%"},{"start":1845.6499999999999,"end":1849.49,"text":"更是推動區域平衡與地方創生的核心解放"},{"start":1850.02,"end":1853.62,"text":"在全球地緣政治與經濟情勢變動下"},{"start":1853.62,"end":1860.26,"text":"中小微新企業正面臨以下類的嚴峻的挑戰"},{"start":1860.26,"end":1862.26,"text":"包括全球供應鏈重組"},{"start":1862.91,"end":1867.39,"text":"地緣政治的風險以及數位轉型與淨零轉型的壓力"},{"start":1867.39,"end":1871.71,"text":"還有人才缺口以及技術快速演進的挑戰"},{"start":1872.3,"end":1875.5,"text":"因此經濟部在114年1月14日"},{"start":1875.97,"end":1879.73,"text":"正式啟動中小微企業多元振興計畫"},{"start":1879.73,"end":1885.25,"text":"以數位轉型、淨零轉型、通路發展等三大策略為核心"},{"start":1885.25,"end":1891.17,"text":"扶椅針對30人以下的企業提供數位負能與普惠貸款的補助"},{"start":1891.17,"end":1893.41,"text":"修正中小企業發展條例"},{"start":1893.41,"end":1897.65,"text":"擴大加薪及增固員工租稅抵減的優惠"},{"start":1897.65,"end":1904.05,"text":"以及將加薪納入中小企業信保基金加碼保證額度等三大配套措施"},{"start":1904.1299999999999,"end":1905.81,"text":"並建立單一服務窗口"},{"start":1905.81,"end":1908.45,"text":"那以下三策略"},{"start":1908.45,"end":1911.8899999999999,"text":"包括數位轉型、淨零轉型以及通路發展"},{"start":1911.8899999999999,"end":1919.6499999999999,"text":"以及三配套協助30人以下中小微企業轉型協助及優惠貸款"},{"start":1919.6499999999999,"end":1921.73,"text":"以及提供租稅優惠"},{"start":1921.73,"end":1923.81,"text":"以及鼓勵為員工加薪"},{"start":1923.81,"end":1929.1699999999998,"text":"額外提供3500萬保證融資貸款額度的部分"},{"start":1929.5700000000002,"end":1935.3300000000002,"text":"還有一窗口由經濟部設立馬善辦服務中心"},{"start":1935.3300000000002,"end":1936.8500000000001,"text":"作為單一窗口"},{"start":1936.8500000000001,"end":1943.5700000000002,"text":"並設置莊區的這個網站提供企業查詢計畫資源與資訊管道"},{"start":1943.5700000000002,"end":1947.5700000000002,"text":"以及經濟部提供中小企業創新研發補助"},{"start":1947.5700000000002,"end":1951.25,"text":"等等的這些相關的執行成效"},{"start":1951.25,"end":1954.77,"text":"因為時間的關係就請各位委員參閱"},{"start":1954.77,"end":1957.3300000000002,"text":"那未來持續進進的措施的部分"},{"start":1957.57,"end":1961.81,"text":"為強化中小微企業及傳統產業的競爭力"},{"start":1961.81,"end":1965.81,"text":"本部課政展開大幅修訂中小企業發展條例"},{"start":1965.81,"end":1970.05,"text":"為中小微企業轉型升級發展條例的工作"},{"start":1970.05,"end":1976.29,"text":"透過法制的方式來擴大中小微轉型升級發展的政策適用的範圍"},{"start":1976.29,"end":1982.9299999999998,"text":"涵蓋微型企業健身、小型企業壯大、中型企業升級、新創企業拔尖"},{"start":1982.9299999999998,"end":1984.05,"text":"四大對象"},{"start":1984.29,"end":1990.45,"text":"同時從116年度開始以每年250億金額的資源"},{"start":1990.45,"end":1993.33,"text":"來協助中小微企業升級轉型"},{"start":1993.33,"end":1997.1699999999998,"text":"同時提出加碼創新研發支出抵減"},{"start":1997.1699999999998,"end":2000.85,"text":"新增轉型設備投資抵減"},{"start":2000.85,"end":2004.69,"text":"放寬增固員工適用年齡及提高"},{"start":2005.22,"end":2008.42,"text":"基層員工加薪減儲率等多項租稅優惠"},{"start":2008.93,"end":2014.05,"text":"並增設新創專家以強化新創企業的採購與融資機制"},{"start":2014.05,"end":2020.93,"text":"另外在執行面方面除持續深化數位轉型、淨零轉型以及通路部件"},{"start":2020.93,"end":2023.25,"text":"等三大核心之外"},{"start":2023.25,"end":2033.01,"text":"也在加入修法後新增群聚共融以及新創拔尖等幾項策略"},{"start":2033.25,"end":2038.93,"text":"那以下策略的執行內容也請各位委員來參閱"},{"start":2038.93,"end":2041.09,"text":"最後做個結論"},{"start":2041.09,"end":2044.85,"text":"經濟部致力於將高科技產業的進步紅利"},{"start":2044.85,"end":2047.73,"text":"轉化為百工百業的轉型助力"},{"start":2047.73,"end":2053.89,"text":"若使以高科技產業帶動中小微及傳統產業升級發展的施政願景"},{"start":2053.89,"end":2059.01,"text":"未來經濟部將會以中小微企業轉型升級發展條例為法制基礎"},{"start":2059.09,"end":2062.2900000000004,"text":"自116年度起投入加倍預算"},{"start":2062.2900000000004,"end":2066.2900000000004,"text":"擴大照顧層面及提高租稅優惠等措施"},{"start":2066.2900000000004,"end":2071.25,"text":"作為我國百萬中小微企業及新創企業最堅實的後盾"},{"start":2071.25,"end":2075.8100000000004,"text":"攜手邁向全民共榮與包容成長的卓越未來"},{"start":2075.8100000000004,"end":2076.61,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":2076.61,"end":2078.53,"text":"敬請各位委員指正事項"},{"start":2078.53,"end":2079.25,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":2079.82,"end":2082.06,"text":"好謝謝何次長"},{"start":2082.06,"end":2085.82,"text":"接下來我們請國發會副主委張芳冠報告"},{"start":2090.83,"end":2092.43,"text":"主席各位委員"},{"start":2092.43,"end":2095.95,"text":"各位先進今天很榮幸邀到會員會"},{"start":2095.95,"end":2101.23,"text":"就中小微企業發展相關的議題以及政府的政策及成效"},{"start":2101.23,"end":2102.0299999999997,"text":"進行報告"},{"start":2102.0299999999997,"end":2103.95,"text":"敬請各位委員不吝赤教"},{"start":2103.95,"end":2107.39,"text":"那從剛剛的經濟部報告我們也知道"},{"start":2107.39,"end":2112.35,"text":"中小微企業跟創新創業都是我們政府這個"},{"start":2112.35,"end":2114.67,"text":"我們臺灣經濟發展的重要基礎"},{"start":2114.67,"end":2117.47,"text":"也是近年政府施政的一個重點項目"},{"start":2117.47,"end":2120.0299999999997,"text":"那本會跟國發基金長期以來"},{"start":2120.19,"end":2122.9900000000002,"text":"主要是透過多元融資與投資的機制"},{"start":2122.9900000000002,"end":2124.8300000000004,"text":"來協助這些企業的發展"},{"start":2124.8300000000004,"end":2127.71,"text":"那此外也協同經濟部國科會等"},{"start":2127.71,"end":2131.55,"text":"致力推動打造創新創業與林生態系的政策"},{"start":2131.55,"end":2134.51,"text":"其能透過新創事業的創新活動"},{"start":2134.51,"end":2136.51,"text":"來帶領產業的升級"},{"start":2136.51,"end":2139.15,"text":"那在政府與民間共同的努力下"},{"start":2139.15,"end":2142.11,"text":"目前國內新創的家數已經突破一萬家"},{"start":2142.11,"end":2145.3900000000003,"text":"那獲得的金額也超過了千億元新臺幣"},{"start":2145.3900000000003,"end":2147.3900000000003,"text":"以下我們會針對"},{"start":2147.39,"end":2148.91,"text":"有關於"},{"start":2149.74,"end":2153.5,"text":"融資保證投資活絡人才延攬與市場開拓等等"},{"start":2153.5,"end":2156.62,"text":"面向來做更細部的說明"},{"start":2156.62,"end":2159.9,"text":"第一點是有關於這個多元融資與信用保證方面"},{"start":2159.9,"end":2165.18,"text":"那國發基金主要是透過與銀行共同出資或支付手續費的方式"},{"start":2165.18,"end":2168.7,"text":"來這個委託金融機構辦理像機器設備申請貸款"},{"start":2168.7,"end":2170.14,"text":"海外投融資貸款"},{"start":2170.14,"end":2172.14,"text":"還有地方創生等等工作"},{"start":2172.14,"end":2175.34,"text":"那協助中華企業來購置資本化的設備"},{"start":2175.34,"end":2177.66,"text":"開拓國際市場及區域發展"},{"start":2177.8199999999997,"end":2180.54,"text":"那有關於青年創業及中華企業的創新貸款"},{"start":2180.54,"end":2182.2999999999997,"text":"我想經濟部剛剛已經說明"},{"start":2182.2999999999997,"end":2185.42,"text":"有相關的許多措施來協助"},{"start":2185.42,"end":2188.2999999999997,"text":"那第二項是有關於投資的部分"},{"start":2188.2999999999997,"end":2191.5,"text":"那為了協助早期的這些新創的發展"},{"start":2191.5,"end":2194.54,"text":"那國發基金有創業天使的投資方案"},{"start":2194.54,"end":2198.94,"text":"那我們最近也把額度由原來的50億元擴大到100億元"},{"start":2198.94,"end":2203.5,"text":"那目前已經成功投資了308家的新創公司"},{"start":2203.5,"end":2206.06,"text":"投資了金額超過44億元"},{"start":2206.14,"end":2210.86,"text":"也帶動了民間的資金共同投資超過191億元"},{"start":2210.86,"end":2213.2599999999998,"text":"那除了這些天使投資以外"},{"start":2213.2599999999998,"end":2216.06,"text":"那國發基金也跟很多部會合作"},{"start":2216.06,"end":2221.5,"text":"針對中小企業、AI、綠色成長、智慧機器人等這些重要的策略性產業"},{"start":2221.5,"end":2223.82,"text":"來推動專案型的投資"},{"start":2223.82,"end":2228.14,"text":"那第三點是有關於擴大投資的標的跟人才的部分"},{"start":2228.14,"end":2232.86,"text":"那最近本會為了帶動國內的創業風潮跟均衡台灣"},{"start":2232.86,"end":2234.7,"text":"辦你的創業綻放競賽"},{"start":2234.7799999999997,"end":2236.3799999999997,"text":"那獲得了廣大的迴響"},{"start":2236.3799999999997,"end":2239.18,"text":"有2800組創業團隊熱烈的參與"},{"start":2239.18,"end":2241.8999999999996,"text":"那最後選出了100組潛力團隊"},{"start":2241.8999999999996,"end":2244.46,"text":"那有3億元以上的創業支持金"},{"start":2244.46,"end":2250.9399999999996,"text":"來同時也透過實戰的課程跟專業的實質輔導來加速其成長茁壯"},{"start":2250.9399999999996,"end":2252.3799999999997,"text":"那在人才方面"},{"start":2252.3799999999997,"end":2256.8599999999997,"text":"本會是透過外國專業人才延攬及雇用法以及就業金卡等等"},{"start":2256.8599999999997,"end":2261.2599999999998,"text":"來協助延攬海外專業人才及新創企業家來台"},{"start":2261.2599999999998,"end":2263.2599999999998,"text":"那此外我們也跟經濟部合作"},{"start":2263.26,"end":2268.5400000000004,"text":"有建置這個新創資訊的平台來降低市場資訊不對稱"},{"start":2269.22,"end":2273.8599999999997,"text":"那最後有關於打造國際聚落與鏈結全球資源方面"},{"start":2273.8599999999997,"end":2282.1,"text":"除了經濟部跟國客會有在這個台灣的林口高雄以及台北能建置這個國際新創基地之外"},{"start":2282.1,"end":2286.74,"text":"那在國際方面為了加速國內新創的拓展國際市場"},{"start":2286.74,"end":2290.42,"text":"我們也推動了國家新創品牌Starup Island Taiwan"},{"start":2290.42,"end":2294.58,"text":"同時在矽谷跟日本東京都設立了海外新創基地"},{"start":2294.58,"end":2298.74,"text":"那同時政府相關部會包含國客會"},{"start":2298.9799999999996,"end":2304.02,"text":"也會帶領新創團隊參與國外的大展向美國的CES"},{"start":2304.02,"end":2310.4199999999996,"text":"還有本會跟經濟部也都跟著名的學府像柏克萊史丹佛大學等合作"},{"start":2310.4199999999996,"end":2312.4199999999996,"text":"來協助新創人才的培訓"},{"start":2312.4199999999996,"end":2315.54,"text":"那最後是有關於推動地方創生的部分"},{"start":2315.54,"end":2319.8599999999997,"text":"那本會為了推動均衡台灣減少成像誤差"},{"start":2319.8599999999997,"end":2322.5,"text":"也持續進行地方創生的工作"},{"start":2322.5,"end":2325.8599999999997,"text":"那最近推動的3.0也匡列了這個"},{"start":2326.4,"end":2328.0800000000004,"text":"60億元的經費"},{"start":2328.0800000000004,"end":2332.32,"text":"以永續工藝、共好等方式來透過"},{"start":2332.32,"end":2335.1200000000003,"text":"培立在地青年增加多元途徑"},{"start":2335.1200000000003,"end":2338.32,"text":"環顫基礎建設等等方式來推動"},{"start":2338.32,"end":2341.84,"text":"目前已經成立了148個青年的培育工作坊"},{"start":2341.84,"end":2347.36,"text":"那同時也鼓勵了地方創生的這個計畫超過300件以上"},{"start":2347.36,"end":2351.1200000000003,"text":"那也謝謝蕭委在8月24號也召開公聽會"},{"start":2351.1200000000003,"end":2355.92,"text":"那我們也詳細記錄了與會專家學者提的主要的建議"},{"start":2356.16,"end":2358.96,"text":"譬如說建置這個資訊揭露的平台"},{"start":2358.96,"end":2362.32,"text":"譬如說要加強吸引海外的創投"},{"start":2362.32,"end":2367.12,"text":"譬如說怎麼透過這個容積獎勵來"},{"start":2367.12,"end":2370.4,"text":"這個協助空間的釋出作為新創使用"},{"start":2370.4,"end":2374.7200000000003,"text":"還有像這個健全沙盒的實驗與重生機制等等"},{"start":2374.7200000000003,"end":2379.12,"text":"那這點我們都會列為本會以及將來跟各部會"},{"start":2379.12,"end":2383.76,"text":"大家一起來推動中小微新企業這個相關政策的重要參考"},{"start":2383.76,"end":2385.52,"text":"那除了以上的說明以外"},{"start":2385.52,"end":2390.32,"text":"那政府正在研議中小微企業轉型升級發展條例"},{"start":2390.32,"end":2393.12,"text":"也期待這個未來大院能夠鼎力的支持"},{"start":2393.12,"end":2395.12,"text":"以上報告進行指教 謝謝"},{"start":2398.86,"end":2402.46,"text":"好 我們謝謝這個張分官副主委"},{"start":2402.46,"end":2405.58,"text":"接下來我們請這個財政部附說署"},{"start":2405.58,"end":2407.58,"text":"留美專屬的報告 謝謝"},{"start":2418.48,"end":2422.56,"text":"主席各位委員以及各位與會先進大家早安"},{"start":2422.56,"end":2427.6800000000003,"text":"那今天很榮幸能夠代表財政部來就協助中小微企業"},{"start":2428.38,"end":2433.1,"text":"發展的租稅優惠措施以及振興融資方案"},{"start":2433.76,"end":2437.6800000000003,"text":"及相關的這個成效來提出報告"},{"start":2437.6800000000003,"end":2439.6800000000003,"text":"請各位委員指教"},{"start":2439.6800000000003,"end":2443.1200000000003,"text":"那為了促進中小企業的健全發展"},{"start":2443.1200000000003,"end":2447.6000000000004,"text":"本部配合經濟部在中小企業發展條例"},{"start":2447.6000000000004,"end":2452.0800000000004,"text":"訂定了專屬中小企業的租稅優惠措施"},{"start":2452.0800000000004,"end":2456.4,"text":"那主要有包括研究發展支出的投資抵減"},{"start":2456.4,"end":2462.0800000000004,"text":"那增固員工以及員工加薪薪資費用的加成減除"},{"start":2462.24,"end":2465.68,"text":"那有助於橫平中小企業的發展"},{"start":2465.68,"end":2471.7599999999998,"text":"鼓勵中小企業投入自主研發創新加薪留住人才"},{"start":2471.7599999999998,"end":2477.04,"text":"以及運用多元的增固員工來提升競爭力"},{"start":2477.04,"end":2481.68,"text":"那鑒於近年國際經濟情勢的快速變動"},{"start":2481.68,"end":2486.56,"text":"中小微企業也面臨了這個經營環境的日益延續"},{"start":2486.56,"end":2490.4,"text":"以及產業轉型等的多重挑戰"},{"start":2490.48,"end":2493.76,"text":"那為了協助中小微企業的經營環境"},{"start":2493.76,"end":2498,"text":"並因應企業發展以及轉型的需求"},{"start":2498,"end":2506.1600000000003,"text":"本部目前正配合經濟部來研擬中小企業發展條例的修正草案"},{"start":2506.1600000000003,"end":2512.88,"text":"針對中小企業的特性來優化現行相關的租稅優惠措施"},{"start":2512.88,"end":2517.84,"text":"希望能夠營造更有利於中小微企業發展"},{"start":2517.84,"end":2522.1600000000003,"text":"以及升級轉型的租稅環境"},{"start":2523.67,"end":2528.4700000000003,"text":"那以下我就針對現行我們在中小企業發展條例裡面"},{"start":2528.4700000000003,"end":2532.79,"text":"相關租稅措施的內容以及實施的成效"},{"start":2532.79,"end":2535.9900000000002,"text":"來跟大家做一個簡要的報告"},{"start":2535.9900000000002,"end":2541.83,"text":"那有關中小企業它如果符合這個規定的研究發展支出"},{"start":2541.83,"end":2545.03,"text":"在當年度它可以抵減15%"},{"start":2545.03,"end":2551.03,"text":"或者選擇分三年抵減10%的這個投資抵減的優惠"},{"start":2551.11,"end":2556.7900000000004,"text":"那從103年度實施一直到114年度"},{"start":2556.7900000000004,"end":2561.9900000000002,"text":"累計申請的件數已經有3205件"},{"start":2561.9900000000002,"end":2570.07,"text":"那研究發展支出的金額總計也高達新台幣774.45億元"},{"start":2570.07,"end":2572.55,"text":"那我們就單年度來看"},{"start":2572.55,"end":2578.3900000000003,"text":"114年度申請的件數以及它研究發展支出的金額"},{"start":2578.47,"end":2583.43,"text":"分別為361件以及107.9億元"},{"start":2583.43,"end":2587.27,"text":"這個跟實施初期也就差不多103年的時候"},{"start":2587.27,"end":2589.83,"text":"已經有大幅度的成長"},{"start":2589.83,"end":2593.43,"text":"那另外有關中小企業增固員工"},{"start":2593.43,"end":2597.5899999999997,"text":"它的薪資費用可以加成減除的這個優惠"},{"start":2597.5899999999997,"end":2604.39,"text":"我們從113年8月7號修正增固員工適用的範圍"},{"start":2604.39,"end":2607.5099999999998,"text":"它修正擴大為24歲以下"},{"start":2607.5099999999998,"end":2612.47,"text":"以及65歲以上的本國籍基層員工"},{"start":2612.47,"end":2618.95,"text":"而且提高它的那個薪資費用的減除率為200%"},{"start":2618.95,"end":2621.91,"text":"那根據我們的統計"},{"start":2621.91,"end":2625.75,"text":"113年度以及114年度"},{"start":2625.75,"end":2627.67,"text":"申報適用這個"},{"start":2627.67,"end":2633.99,"text":"就增固員工租稅優惠的加速一共有207家"},{"start":2634.1499999999996,"end":2638.5499999999997,"text":"增固的員工有2260人"},{"start":2638.5499999999997,"end":2643.83,"text":"那增固員工的薪資總額高達3.28億元"},{"start":2643.83,"end":2646.47,"text":"那另外我們也針對中小企業"},{"start":2646.47,"end":2648.6299999999997,"text":"如果對員工加薪"},{"start":2648.6299999999997,"end":2651.83,"text":"那它的加薪費用可以加成減除"},{"start":2651.83,"end":2656.7099999999996,"text":"那這個優惠也在113年8月7號有修正"},{"start":2656.7099999999996,"end":2660.0699999999997,"text":"那它的薪資費用的減除率"},{"start":2660.15,"end":2665.9100000000003,"text":"有原來的130%提高為175%"},{"start":2665.9100000000003,"end":2667.59,"text":"那一樣我們統計"},{"start":2667.59,"end":2672.63,"text":"過去兩年113年跟114年適用的加速"},{"start":2672.63,"end":2675.67,"text":"一共有1553家"},{"start":2675.67,"end":2681.67,"text":"那適用加薪的人次高達75,838人"},{"start":2681.67,"end":2682.8700000000003,"text":"那這個部分呢"},{"start":2682.8700000000003,"end":2687.9900000000002,"text":"也是跟過去以往實施的年度都有大幅的成長"},{"start":2687.99,"end":2689.6699999999996,"text":"那除了剛跟大家報告"},{"start":2689.6699999999996,"end":2692.31,"text":"有關中小企業發展條例裡面"},{"start":2692.31,"end":2695.1099999999997,"text":"我們提供的租稅優惠以外呢"},{"start":2695.1099999999997,"end":2697.5099999999998,"text":"那為了優化產業結構"},{"start":2697.5099999999998,"end":2700.1499999999996,"text":"以及協助產業升級轉型"},{"start":2700.1499999999996,"end":2704.6299999999997,"text":"我們也配合經濟部在產創條例裡面"},{"start":2704.6299999999997,"end":2708.5499999999997,"text":"也提供了有關資金面人才面技術面"},{"start":2708.5499999999997,"end":2711.0299999999997,"text":"多項功能的租稅優惠"},{"start":2711.0299999999997,"end":2712.39,"text":"那這一些優惠呢"},{"start":2712.39,"end":2714.6299999999997,"text":"只要中小企業符合規定"},{"start":2714.6299999999997,"end":2716.5499999999997,"text":"它也都可以適用"},{"start":2716.63,"end":2719.19,"text":"可以進一步的來協助中小企業"},{"start":2719.19,"end":2721.11,"text":"能夠提升它的競爭力"},{"start":2721.11,"end":2723.67,"text":"以及強化的產業韌性"},{"start":2723.67,"end":2726.9500000000003,"text":"那有關這個融資協助的部分呢"},{"start":2726.9500000000003,"end":2733.3500000000004,"text":"本部督導宮古銀行在112年的4月起"},{"start":2733.3500000000004,"end":2739.4300000000003,"text":"以自有資金來推動中小微型企業振興融資方案"},{"start":2739.4300000000003,"end":2741.03,"text":"從開辦以來呢"},{"start":2741.03,"end":2745.11,"text":"那適度的擴增了融資的總額度"},{"start":2745.11,"end":2751.67,"text":"從原來的3000億元逐步調高到新台幣3兆元"},{"start":2751.67,"end":2753.19,"text":"那這個部分呢"},{"start":2753.19,"end":2757.27,"text":"而且我們這個實施的期限也延長到明年"},{"start":2757.27,"end":2759.51,"text":"也就是116年底"},{"start":2759.51,"end":2765.59,"text":"那這個部分是有助於協助中小企業營運以及轉型發展"},{"start":2765.59,"end":2767.59,"text":"提升它的產業競爭力"},{"start":2767.59,"end":2769.75,"text":"強化它的經營韌性"},{"start":2769.75,"end":2773.11,"text":"統計到115年7月"},{"start":2773.11,"end":2775.11,"text":"也就是今年的7月底舉"},{"start":2775.11,"end":2785.67,"text":"我們就是宮古行庫一共核貸了2782億元"},{"start":2785.67,"end":2788.9500000000003,"text":"所以這個部分對中小企業有實質的幫助"},{"start":2788.9500000000003,"end":2790.9500000000003,"text":"那最後要跟大家報告"},{"start":2790.9500000000003,"end":2794.9500000000003,"text":"我們為了促進經濟轉型以及國家的永續發展"},{"start":2794.9500000000003,"end":2799.83,"text":"我們會持續的關注國際經濟情勢以及產業的需要"},{"start":2799.91,"end":2805.43,"text":"在兼顧財政收入租稅公平以及稅政簡化的原則下"},{"start":2805.43,"end":2810.95,"text":"來配合政府的政策以及產業的需求"},{"start":2810.95,"end":2813.83,"text":"滾動檢討相關的措施"},{"start":2813.83,"end":2815.59,"text":"以上請各位委員指教"},{"start":2815.59,"end":2816.39,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2816.39,"end":2819.91,"text":"好 謝謝財政部副署長"},{"start":2820.56,"end":2822.56,"text":"接下來的話呢"},{"start":2822.56,"end":2825.36,"text":"因為我們目前在場人數有三人"},{"start":2825.36,"end":2828,"text":"請問各位同仁上次會議事務有無錯誤"},{"start":2828.91,"end":2830.91,"text":"沒有錯誤我們議事都確定"},{"start":2831.84,"end":2835.28,"text":"接下來我們請國科會副署長吳行飛報告"},{"start":2835.28,"end":2837.28,"text":"四分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":2848.9199999999996,"end":2850.12,"text":"各位委員"},{"start":2850.12,"end":2852.9199999999996,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家早安"},{"start":2852.9199999999996,"end":2858.52,"text":"感謝各位委員對中小微星企業發展的關切與重視"},{"start":2858.52,"end":2861,"text":"面對全球供應鏈重組"},{"start":2861,"end":2864.12,"text":"AI應用及淨零轉型等等挑戰"},{"start":2864.12,"end":2867.72,"text":"本會結合台灣科技新創基地TTA"},{"start":2867.72,"end":2870.12,"text":"跟三大科學園區的資源"},{"start":2870.12,"end":2873.64,"text":"全力提供優質的場域培育人才"},{"start":2873.64,"end":2875.64,"text":"及推動國際鏈結"},{"start":2875.72,"end":2879.56,"text":"以下緊就推動措施跟成效進行經驗的報告"},{"start":2879.56,"end":2881.56,"text":"請各位委員能夠知道"},{"start":2881.56,"end":2886.04,"text":"第一個是台灣科技創新基地TTA四大推動策略跟成效"},{"start":2886.04,"end":2888.04,"text":"我們在其中有第一個是"},{"start":2888.04,"end":2890.8399999999997,"text":"建立優質評價的場域跟專業服務"},{"start":2890.8399999999997,"end":2893.56,"text":"我們透過TTA南北雙基地"},{"start":2893.56,"end":2896.2799999999997,"text":"串聯北中南科技產業聚落"},{"start":2896.2799999999997,"end":2902.2,"text":"並持續串聯專利、制裁、法務、會計及人才、招募等等專業服務"},{"start":2902.2,"end":2904.7599999999998,"text":"我們的金租率都超過九成以上"},{"start":2904.84,"end":2907.96,"text":"累積辦理了超過兩千場的媒合活動"},{"start":2907.96,"end":2911.96,"text":"第二是引進加速期的輔導跟資金的募集"},{"start":2911.96,"end":2916.6800000000003,"text":"引進國內外具有產業跟投資能量的加速期"},{"start":2916.6800000000003,"end":2917.88,"text":"提供新創"},{"start":2918.29,"end":2924.85,"text":"產業模式、市場定位、資金募集、企業鏈結跟國際投產等等的專業輔導"},{"start":2924.85,"end":2928.61,"text":"目前共引進15家國內外的加速期"},{"start":2928.61,"end":2933.57,"text":"累積已經培育了1190家的科技新創"},{"start":2933.57,"end":2937.65,"text":"第三個模式是企業出題新創解題"},{"start":2937.65,"end":2939.9700000000003,"text":"讓企業跟新創能夠共創"},{"start":2939.9700000000003,"end":2943.81,"text":"推動企業出題新創解題的合作模式"},{"start":2943.81,"end":2947.17,"text":"協助企業導入人工智慧、智慧製造"},{"start":2947.25,"end":2950.37,"text":"以及創新科技並行場域的驗證"},{"start":2950.37,"end":2954.13,"text":"註定產業數位轉型被基礎成46萬"},{"start":2954.13,"end":2956.61,"text":"訂單的規模也超過1.9億元"},{"start":2957.59,"end":2960.3900000000003,"text":"最後協助方式是連結國際市場"},{"start":2960.3900000000003,"end":2963.67,"text":"剛剛國發會的長官有提到"},{"start":2963.67,"end":2968.63,"text":"我們帶領團隊每年參加美國的CS展跟法國的VIVA TEC展"},{"start":2968.63,"end":2971.9900000000002,"text":"由新創跟工業共同參加"},{"start":2971.9900000000002,"end":2976.3900000000003,"text":"累積帶領了1398家次的新創參展"},{"start":2976.3900000000003,"end":2979.4300000000003,"text":"獲得了57座的國際獎項"},{"start":2979.4300000000003,"end":2983.59,"text":"第二大部分是在科學園區的一個多元服務"},{"start":2983.9900000000002,"end":2988.3900000000003,"text":"科學園區目前在產學合作跟新興科技的計畫上面"},{"start":2988.3900000000003,"end":2992.55,"text":"我們總共在今年度核定了29間計畫"},{"start":2992.55,"end":2993.9900000000002,"text":"補助1.39億元"},{"start":2993.9900000000002,"end":2996.8700000000003,"text":"帶動廠商投入研發達1.65億元"},{"start":2996.8700000000003,"end":2999.9900000000002,"text":"人才培育我們總共也核定了35間計畫"},{"start":2999.9900000000002,"end":3001.75,"text":"補助超過2000萬元"},{"start":3001.75,"end":3003.3500000000004,"text":"培育1800"},{"start":3005.74,"end":3008.2999999999997,"text":"1878人次以上"},{"start":3008.84,"end":3011.5600000000004,"text":"最後在扶植創新創業方面"},{"start":3011.5600000000004,"end":3015.0800000000004,"text":"在竹科提供竹青亭、藍青亭的服務"},{"start":3015.0800000000004,"end":3018.28,"text":"中科創新基地以及南科創業的工坊"},{"start":3018.28,"end":3020.6800000000003,"text":"我們也有扶植數百個團隊"},{"start":3020.6800000000003,"end":3023.1600000000003,"text":"已經有超過600家成立公司"},{"start":3023.1600000000003,"end":3027.5600000000004,"text":"最後國科會將會持續落實跨部會的一個支援整合"},{"start":3027.5600000000004,"end":3029.88,"text":"針對新創不同發展階段的尋求"},{"start":3029.88,"end":3034.84,"text":"透過場域服務、資金引導、企業工創、國際拓展四大軸線"},{"start":3034.84,"end":3036.76,"text":"鏈接政府跟民間的支援"},{"start":3036.76,"end":3038.36,"text":"協助科技新創"},{"start":3038.36,"end":3041.8,"text":"能夠提升為具有國際經濟力的中小企業"},{"start":3041.8,"end":3044.04,"text":"帶動我國產業創新轉型"},{"start":3044.04,"end":3044.6800000000003,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":3046.1,"end":3049.14,"text":"好,謝謝國科會的一個報告"},{"start":3049.85,"end":3053.0499999999997,"text":"有關本次會議各部會所提出的報告"},{"start":3053.0499999999997,"end":3056.33,"text":"請委員自行參閱並刊登空報"},{"start":3056.33,"end":3058.0099999999998,"text":"現在進行詢答"},{"start":3058.0099999999998,"end":3061.37,"text":"質詢權原律最以下宣告"},{"start":3061.37,"end":3064.0899999999997,"text":"每位委員發言時間本會員6分鐘"},{"start":3064.0899999999997,"end":3066.25,"text":"必要時的延長2分鐘"},{"start":3066.25,"end":3068.17,"text":"非本會委員4分鐘"},{"start":3068.17,"end":3071.37,"text":"上午10點零分截止發言登記"},{"start":3071.37,"end":3074.89,"text":"首先請登記第一位的陳廷飛委員發言"},{"start":3081.19,"end":3083.75,"text":"謝謝主席,我們是請次長"},{"start":3085.14,"end":3086.74,"text":"好,我們請何處長,謝謝"},{"start":3091.12,"end":3092.24,"text":"陳委員好"},{"start":3092.24,"end":3093.6,"text":"次長好"},{"start":3093.6,"end":3097.84,"text":"次長,我想這幾天我們南部真的是下了很大雨"},{"start":3097.84,"end":3099.12,"text":"我也知道說"},{"start":3099.12,"end":3103.2,"text":"你們次長有分別不一樣的一個主導"},{"start":3103.2,"end":3108.16,"text":"所以呢,我們的賴次大概都在南部的地方"},{"start":3108.16,"end":3112,"text":"了解為什麼這一次在"},{"start":3112,"end":3113.52,"text":"這樣的一個即時雨"},{"start":3113.52,"end":3118.32,"text":"到底我們要做哪些緊急在做應變的部分"},{"start":3118.32,"end":3120.56,"text":"尤其我們要面對的是"},{"start":3120.56,"end":3121.36,"text":"馬上"},{"start":3121.97,"end":3123.41,"text":"這個禮拜"},{"start":3123.41,"end":3124.45,"text":"好,我們期待"},{"start":3125.36,"end":3126.8,"text":"他遠離我們"},{"start":3126.8,"end":3129.6000000000004,"text":"但是我們不論怎麼樣的集氣"},{"start":3129.6000000000004,"end":3130.5600000000004,"text":"祈禱"},{"start":3130.5600000000004,"end":3133.92,"text":"我們還是要做萬全的準備"},{"start":3133.92,"end":3137.36,"text":"所以說面對這四五六日"},{"start":3137.36,"end":3138.96,"text":"本來是說六個日"},{"start":3138.96,"end":3140.96,"text":"然後現在有可能會提早"},{"start":3140.96,"end":3143.2000000000003,"text":"所以在這樣的一個前提之下"},{"start":3143.2000000000003,"end":3144.32,"text":"說真的"},{"start":3144.32,"end":3147.76,"text":"我們一定要再做好更萬全的準備"},{"start":3147.76,"end":3148.6400000000003,"text":"那麼"},{"start":3148.6400000000003,"end":3151.28,"text":"我們感謝在這段時間"},{"start":3151.28,"end":3153.84,"text":"其實不論是我們的賴次"},{"start":3153.92,"end":3156.4,"text":"或是我們的國土署"},{"start":3156.4,"end":3157.92,"text":"水利署"},{"start":3157.92,"end":3162.32,"text":"都親自到我們台南的地方去了解"},{"start":3162.32,"end":3167.84,"text":"那賴次總統昨天也親自到了台南去看"},{"start":3167.84,"end":3169.6000000000004,"text":"在我們"},{"start":3169.6000000000004,"end":3172.1600000000003,"text":"可以說這幾天幾乎就是"},{"start":3172.1600000000003,"end":3175.76,"text":"掛在媒體上面的一個狀況"},{"start":3175.76,"end":3177.84,"text":"就是人的永康"},{"start":3177.84,"end":3179.6000000000004,"text":"大概這幾天的下雨"},{"start":3179.6000000000004,"end":3181.04,"text":"這幾個地方"},{"start":3181.04,"end":3181.76,"text":"都是"},{"start":3182.64,"end":3183.3599999999997,"text":"雞哄"},{"start":3184.17,"end":3185.21,"text":"就會淹水"},{"start":3185.94,"end":3189.54,"text":"這個其實看在我們自己身為台南人"},{"start":3189.54,"end":3190.82,"text":"真的內心"},{"start":3190.82,"end":3192.82,"text":"很多的衝擊"},{"start":3192.82,"end":3194.34,"text":"可是我們必須說的"},{"start":3194.82,"end":3197.94,"text":"如果沒有前面賴次長"},{"start":3197.94,"end":3200.9,"text":"還有我們的黃市長"},{"start":3200.9,"end":3202.42,"text":"他們所做的這些"},{"start":3203.4,"end":3204.6800000000003,"text":"包括沖水站"},{"start":3204.6800000000003,"end":3205.96,"text":"包括香涵"},{"start":3205.96,"end":3207.48,"te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9%"},{"start":4057.09,"end":4061.09,"text":"當然也提供將近920萬個工作"},{"start":4061.09,"end":4063.09,"text":"的一個機會"},{"start":4063.09,"end":4065.09,"text":"還有1萬5000多家的一個"},{"start":4065.09,"end":4067.09,"text":"新創的一個事業"},{"start":4067.09,"end":4069.09,"text":"那你們的報告的話寫了"},{"start":4070.15,"end":4072.15,"text":"中小微的新創企業五個困境"},{"start":4072.15,"end":4074.15,"text":"全球供應鏈的"},{"start":4074.15,"end":4078.15,"text":"重組地緣政治數位淨零轉型人才缺口"},{"start":4078.15,"end":4080.15,"text":"跟技術的一個快速的演進"},{"start":4081.59,"end":4083.59,"text":"那當然也根據你們的報告"},{"start":4083.59,"end":4085.59,"text":"以及我們找到的這個東西"},{"start":4085.59,"end":4087.59,"text":"中小企業營運觀測的調查"},{"start":4087.59,"end":4089.59,"text":"這個是你們中企署辦理的"},{"start":4089.59,"end":4091.59,"text":"另外一個是PWC"},{"start":4091.59,"end":4093.59,"text":"支城他所辦理這個"},{"start":4093.59,"end":4095.59,"text":"這個素材署"},{"start":4095.59,"end":4097.59,"text":"他的一個2022的一個"},{"start":4097.59,"end":4099.59,"text":"現況跟需求調查"},{"start":4099.59,"end":4101.59,"text":"那當然"},{"start":4101.57,"end":4103.57,"text":"講的東西大概就是租稅減免"},{"start":4104.71,"end":4106.71,"text":"金融支持節能設備的汰換補助"},{"start":4106.71,"end":4108.71,"text":"另外企業真正碰到就是"},{"start":4108.71,"end":4110.71,"text":"經費不足"},{"start":4110.71,"end":4112.71,"text":"缺乏數位技能等等"},{"start":4112.71,"end":4114.71,"text":"但是你們的報告這樣寫"},{"start":4114.71,"end":4116.71,"text":"跟這個五大的困境"},{"start":4118.66,"end":4120.66,"text":"有些可能對得起來"},{"start":4120.66,"end":4122.66,"text":"比如說你的數位可能就對到"},{"start":4122.66,"end":4124.66,"text":"素材署去的"},{"start":4124.66,"end":4126.66,"text":"就是在數發部裡頭的數位轉型"},{"start":4126.66,"end":4128.66,"text":"當然你們自己也有百工百業的數位轉型"},{"start":4128.66,"end":4130.66,"text":"所以人才缺口"},{"start":4130.66,"end":4132.66,"text":"大概有"},{"start":4132.66,"end":4134.66,"text":"但是我的問題就是說"},{"start":4133.61,"end":4135.61,"text":"我們在這裡頭所碰到的問題"},{"start":4137.27,"end":4139.27,"text":"到底你們每一年"},{"start":4139.27,"end":4141.27,"text":"或者是什麼時候"},{"start":4141.27,"end":4143.27,"text":"會做多少樣的一個調查"},{"start":4143.59,"end":4145.59,"text":"這個這個是不是可以請次長回答"},{"start":4146.47,"end":4148.47,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":4148.47,"end":4150.47,"text":"那其實中小企業"},{"start":4150.47,"end":4152.47,"text":"他所面臨的挑戰產銷人發財"},{"start":4152.47,"end":4154.47,"text":"各式各樣的這些"},{"start":4154.47,"end":4156.47,"text":"經營管理都會面臨"},{"start":4156.47,"end":4158.47,"text":"那我們其實每年"},{"start":4158.47,"end":4160.47,"text":"都會發布中小企業白皮書"},{"start":4160.47,"end":4162.47,"text":"在發布白皮書的時候"},{"start":4162.47,"end":4164.47,"text":"我們就會點出相關的"},{"start":4164.47,"end":4166.47,"text":"這個時代上"},{"start":4166.47,"end":4168.47,"text":"中小企業所面臨到的"},{"start":4168.47,"end":4170.47,"text":"需要解決的這個問題"},{"start":4170.47,"end":4172.47,"text":"那我想"},{"start":4172.47,"end":4174.47,"text":"所以你這左邊五個在你的中小企業白皮書"},{"start":4174.47,"end":4176.47,"text":"有今年的嗎"},{"start":4176.47,"end":4178.47,"text":"是我們 我想這些都是"},{"start":4178.47,"end":4180.47,"text":"這幾年來不管是"},{"start":4180.47,"end":4182.47,"text":"地緣政治或是全球的"},{"start":4182.47,"end":4184.47,"text":"有在今年的白皮書"},{"start":4184.47,"end":4186.47,"text":"都是在我們的"},{"start":4186.47,"end":4188.47,"text":"發現裡面"},{"start":4188.47,"end":4190.47,"text":"我們看到這些問題"},{"start":4191.26,"end":4193.26,"text":"好 我現在的問題是說"},{"start":4193.26,"end":4195.26,"text":"到底這個東西 因為我覺得"},{"start":4195.26,"end":4197.26,"text":"我們政府每次做政策的計畫的時候"},{"start":4197.26,"end":4199.26,"text":"先花多一點資源"},{"start":4199.26,"end":4201.26,"text":"先去了解問題"},{"start":4201.26,"end":4203.26,"text":"問題的形成原因"},{"start":4203.26,"end":4205.26,"text":"第二個 我也建議你們"},{"start":4205.26,"end":4207.26,"text":"就是"},{"start":4206.45,"end":4208.45,"text":"定期面對面去跟這些"},{"start":4208.45,"end":4210.45,"text":"中小微的企業接觸"},{"start":4210.45,"end":4212.45,"text":"那我也希望你們把這個"},{"start":4212.45,"end":4214.45,"text":"每一年大概你要告訴我"},{"start":4214.45,"end":4216.45,"text":"比如說我們現在審116的預算"},{"start":4216.45,"end":4218.45,"text":"所以大概你要接觸多少"},{"start":4218.45,"end":4220.45,"text":"中小微企業類型是什麼"},{"start":4220.45,"end":4222.45,"text":"那你每一次弄完之後的"},{"start":4222.45,"end":4224.45,"text":"就是說他的問題"},{"start":4224.45,"end":4226.45,"text":"歸納完再追蹤"},{"start":4226.45,"end":4228.45,"text":"當然還有一些你是委託像"},{"start":4228.45,"end":4230.45,"text":"MIC或是其他公研院"},{"start":4230.45,"end":4232.45,"text":"等等的調查"},{"start":4232.45,"end":4234.45,"text":"我就覺得現在要了解問題"},{"start":4234.45,"end":4236.45,"text":"那你的對策才有辦法下去"},{"start":4236.7,"end":4238.7,"text":"好 那就是沿著到下一個"},{"start":4238.7,"end":4240.7,"text":"因為當你把問題了解清楚之後"},{"start":4240.7,"end":4242.7,"text":"你才有辦法開藥方"},{"start":4242.7,"end":4244.7,"text":"那開藥方"},{"start":4244.7,"end":4246.7,"text":"我現在的問題是"},{"start":4246.7,"end":4248.7,"text":"為什麼禮拜一辦公聽會"},{"start":4248.7,"end":4250.7,"text":"就是說我們現在有不同的企業"},{"start":4250.7,"end":4252.7,"text":"就像你們講的 微型企業"},{"start":4252.7,"end":4254.7,"text":"小型 中型 新創"},{"start":4254.7,"end":4256.7,"text":"口號都喊得很好 要健身"},{"start":4256.7,"end":4258.7,"text":"要壯大 要升級 要拔肩"},{"start":4258.7,"end":4260.7,"text":"這都是形容詞"},{"start":4260.7,"end":4262.7,"text":"然後你剛剛又有這幾個問題"},{"start":4262.7,"end":4264.7,"text":"所以到底你這個藥方"},{"start":4264.7,"end":4266.7,"text":"會怎麼開"},{"start":4266.35,"end":4268.35,"text":"然後你的這個KPI"},{"start":4268.35,"end":4270.35,"text":"這些到底會怎麼設計"},{"start":4270.35,"end":4272.35,"text":"這個這個不曉得"},{"start":4272.35,"end":4274.35,"text":"市長 你們現在目前"},{"start":4274.35,"end":4276.35,"text":"做到什麼地步"},{"start":4276.92,"end":4278.92,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":4278.92,"end":4280.92,"text":"其實我們在這個114年"},{"start":4280.92,"end":4282.92,"text":"我們就推出中小圍"},{"start":4282.92,"end":4284.92,"text":"企業多元振興方案"},{"start":4284.92,"end":4286.92,"text":"那數位轉型 淨零轉型或通路"},{"start":4286.92,"end":4288.92,"text":"部件 其實這是整個方案"},{"start":4288.92,"end":4290.92,"text":"的一個重點"},{"start":4290.92,"end":4292.92,"text":"那這一次總統提出來的就是說"},{"start":4292.92,"end":4294.92,"text":"其實跟委員看到的"},{"start":4294.92,"end":4296.92,"text":"也是很類似就是說"},{"start":4296.92,"end":4298.92,"text":"是不是要加大 而且要加深"},{"start":4298.92,"end":4300.92,"text":"這樣的一個輔導的一個內涵"},{"start":4300.92,"end":4302.92,"text":"所以我們把群聚共榮"},{"start":4302.92,"end":4304.92,"text":"包括商圈 市場 夜市"},{"start":4304.92,"end":4306.92,"text":"也都把它放進來 還有最重要"},{"start":4306.92,"end":4308.92,"text":"就是新創拔肩 因為這個新創"},{"start":4308.92,"end":4310.92,"text":"就是改變未來"},{"start":4310.92,"end":4312.92,"text":"我們台灣經濟很重要的"},{"start":4312.92,"end":4314.92,"text":"我希望你交一個這樣的"},{"start":4314.92,"end":4316.92,"text":"報告 也可以找中氣署"},{"start":4316.92,"end":4318.92,"text":"或是你們各個有一起的"},{"start":4318.92,"end":4320.92,"text":"就是說你針對這個東西"},{"start":4320.92,"end":4322.92,"text":"假設我們把它稱之為舉證圖"},{"start":4322.92,"end":4324.92,"text":"那每一個東西配合你前面調查"},{"start":4324.92,"end":4326.92,"text":"它最主要的問題"},{"start":4326.92,"end":4328.92,"text":"你想要解決 因為我們不可能"},{"start":4328.92,"end":4330.92,"text":"每一個問題都去解決嘛"},{"start":4330.92,"end":4332.92,"text":"最重要的問題 你開了這個對策"},{"start":4332.92,"end":4334.92,"text":"那你做下去會是什麼"},{"start":4334.92,"end":4336.92,"text":"那這一個整個政策的施政的藍圖"},{"start":4336.92,"end":4338.92,"text":"才會出來"},{"start":4338.92,"end":4340.92,"text":"但我們現在都看不到"},{"start":4340.92,"end":4342.92,"text":"這也是我們為什麼一直在想說"},{"start":4342.92,"end":4344.92,"text":"到底 我現在看到都是一個一個政策"},{"start":4344.92,"end":4346.92,"text":"見樹不見林 然後做下去"},{"start":4346.92,"end":4348.92,"text":"我也不曉得那個成果會是什麼"},{"start":4348.92,"end":4350.92,"text":"這個老問題了"},{"start":4350.92,"end":4352.92,"text":"十幾二十年來都是這個樣子"},{"start":4352.92,"end":4354.92,"text":"所以我是希望你們有一種比較"},{"start":4354.92,"end":4356.92,"text":"創新的一個格局的做法"},{"start":4356.92,"end":4358.92,"text":"再來就是數字的部分"},{"start":4358.92,"end":4360.92,"text":"你們常常數字都多不起來"},{"start":4361.68,"end":4363.68,"text":"114年計畫啟動"},{"start":4363.68,"end":4365.68,"text":"行政院的新聞公告就說"},{"start":4365.68,"end":4367.68,"text":"114年度投入116億"},{"start":4367.68,"end":4369.68,"text":"卓院長今年又公開說"},{"start":4369.68,"end":4371.68,"text":"114年投入103億"},{"start":4371.68,"end":4373.68,"text":"這中間就差13億"},{"start":4373.68,"end":4375.68,"text":"然後115年又說"},{"start":4375.68,"end":4377.68,"text":"投入109億"},{"start":4379.38,"end":4381.38,"text":"然後116年你們送進來"},{"start":4381.38,"end":4383.38,"text":"運輸院正式報告告訴我們"},{"start":4383.38,"end":4385.38,"text":"每年是250億的資源"},{"start":4385.38,"end":4387.38,"text":"那行政院又說為您"},{"start":4388.39,"end":4390.39,"text":"八年 未來八年要加碼投入1000億"},{"start":4391.6,"end":4393.6,"text":"所以114年到底你們是"},{"start":4393.6,"end":4395.6,"text":"投入116還是113億"},{"start":4396.88,"end":4398.88,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":4398.88,"end":4400.88,"text":"我們是從現有"},{"start":4400.88,"end":4402.88,"text":"比方說"},{"start":4402.88,"end":4404.88,"text":"我們各部會投入中小企業的"},{"start":4404.88,"end":4406.88,"text":"預算 其實每年大概都"},{"start":4406.88,"end":4408.88,"text":"有100多億"},{"start":4408.88,"end":4410.88,"text":"這不是你經濟部的還是整個行政院"},{"start":4410.88,"end":4412.88,"text":"其實應該是"},{"start":4412.88,"end":4414.88,"text":"大部分都是經濟部"},{"start":4414.88,"end":4416.88,"text":"但是我們也有把各部會"},{"start":4416.88,"end":4418.88,"text":"用在中小企業身上的這些經費"},{"start":4418.88,"end":4420.88,"text":"我們也把它統計進來"},{"start":4420.88,"end":4422.88,"text":"那之所以116年"},{"start":4422.88,"end":4424.88,"text":"開始我們會說250億"},{"start":4424.88,"end":4426.88,"text":"是因為總統又加碼"},{"start":4426.88,"end":4428.88,"text":"八年這個1000億"},{"start":4428.88,"end":4430.88,"text":"所以我們就是把"},{"start":4430.88,"end":4432.88,"text":"八年250億是2000億"},{"start":4432.88,"end":4434.88,"text":"所以就是"},{"start":4434.88,"end":4436.88,"text":"現有100多億"},{"start":4436.88,"end":4438.88,"text":"再加上總統未來給的"},{"start":4438.88,"end":4440.88,"text":"每年大概100多億"},{"start":4440.88,"end":4442.88,"text":"這樣加起來的話大概"},{"start":4442.88,"end":4444.88,"text":"每年從116年開始大概有"},{"start":4444.88,"end":4446.88,"text":"250億左右的一個預算"},{"start":4446.88,"end":4448.88,"text":"所以你這個是加碼1000億是新增"},{"start":4448.88,"end":4450.88,"text":"所以你既有預算"},{"start":4450.88,"end":4452.88,"text":"假設我們抓103億"},{"start":4452.88,"end":4454.88,"text":"然後再加上一年大概"},{"start":4454.88,"end":4456.88,"text":"是差不多125"},{"start":4456.88,"end":4458.88,"text":"左右"},{"start":4458.88,"end":4460.88,"text":"所以加起來是200多億"},{"start":4460.88,"end":4462.88,"text":"250億左右"},{"start":4462.88,"end":4464.88,"text":"250億左右"},{"start":4464.88,"end":4466.88,"text":"所以把這個東西的預算金額寫清楚"},{"start":4466.88,"end":4468.88,"text":"那這250億是包含"},{"start":4468.88,"end":4470.88,"text":"哪些部會"},{"start":4470.88,"end":4472.88,"text":"然後你的公務預算 基金支出"},{"start":4472.88,"end":4474.88,"text":"租稅優惠 信保"},{"start":4474.88,"end":4476.88,"text":"國發金投資都算進去"},{"start":4476.88,"end":4478.88,"text":"還是這250億純粹就是"},{"start":4478.88,"end":4480.88,"text":"產業補助跟推動的錢"},{"start":4480.88,"end":4482.88,"text":"是全部都會有 到時候我們會有一個方案"},{"start":4482.88,"end":4484.88,"text":"到時候我們再提供"},{"start":4484.88,"end":4486.88,"text":"所以它是把基金支出"},{"start":4486.88,"end":4488.88,"text":"國發 基金的投資"},{"start":4488.88,"end":4490.88,"text":"信保這就放進去"},{"start":4490.88,"end":4492.88,"text":"所以真正你產業補助根本不到"},{"start":4492.88,"end":4494.88,"text":"一年250億"},{"start":4494.62,"end":4496.62,"text":"應該都是在整個裡面"},{"start":4496.62,"end":4498.62,"text":"就是說250億"},{"start":4498.62,"end":4500.62,"text":"那你要給我細項的報告"},{"start":4500.62,"end":4502.62,"text":"每一個都要拆解出來"},{"start":4502.62,"end":4504.62,"text":"因為我們業界聽到的是"},{"start":4504.62,"end":4506.62,"text":"250億是用在產業的補助 研發跟創新"},{"start":4506.62,"end":4508.62,"text":"跟我的淨零轉型"},{"start":4508.62,"end":4510.62,"text":"不包含這些國發基金投資"},{"start":4510.62,"end":4512.62,"text":"銀行融資 這個你很難算"},{"start":4512.62,"end":4514.62,"text":"我們到時候再"},{"start":4514.62,"end":4516.62,"text":"提供一些資料給"},{"start":4516.62,"end":4518.62,"text":"我希望你們是250億的新增"},{"start":4518.62,"end":4520.62,"text":"產業補助跟研發這些"},{"start":4520.62,"end":4522.62,"text":"好不好"},{"start":4522.62,"end":4524.62,"text":"我們現在把這個籠統全部都加進去"},{"start":4525.35,"end":4527.35,"text":"我們中小企業想像的是"},{"start":4527.35,"end":4529.35,"text":"250億 結果再加上50億"},{"start":4529.35,"end":4531.35,"text":"雖然兩百億都是國發基金投資"},{"start":4531.35,"end":4533.35,"text":"信保融資"},{"start":4533.35,"end":4535.35,"text":"然後財政部的公股這個"},{"start":4535.35,"end":4537.35,"text":"融資這不行"},{"start":4537.35,"end":4539.35,"text":"好 再來的話"},{"start":4539.78,"end":4541.78,"text":"你們的跡象也是很奇怪"},{"start":4542.24,"end":4544.24,"text":"再讓我花一點時間"},{"start":4544.24,"end":4546.24,"text":"因為我覺得這個你們的這個牽扯到你們116的預算的審查"},{"start":4546.24,"end":4548.24,"text":"就是說"},{"start":4548.24,"end":4550.24,"text":"你現在114年"},{"start":4550.24,"end":4552.24,"text":"我看你們報告的話送進來是"},{"start":4552.24,"end":4554.24,"text":"預計輔導20萬3千5百家"},{"start":4554.24,"end":4556.24,"text":"創造產值689億"},{"start":4557.19,"end":4559.19,"text":"行政院114年公佈結果"},{"start":4559.19,"end":4561.19,"text":"同樣加速沒變"},{"start":4561.19,"end":4563.19,"text":"20萬3千5百家"},{"start":4563.19,"end":4565.19,"text":"產值"},{"start":4565.17,"end":4567.17,"text":"從689億變成是91億"},{"start":4569.16,"end":4571.16,"text":"WOW"},{"start":4571.92,"end":4573.92,"text":"是前面物質"},{"start":4573.92,"end":4575.92,"text":"根本報告就是說"},{"start":4575.92,"end":4577.92,"text":"其實我們都是在"},{"start":4577.92,"end":4579.92,"text":"不斷的在這個做調查"},{"start":4579.92,"end":4581.92,"text":"就是說這個調查"},{"start":4581.92,"end":4583.92,"text":"會隨著這個調查時間點"},{"start":4583.92,"end":4585.92,"text":"不是你碰風碰想著"},{"start":4585.92,"end":4587.92,"text":"你本來預估是689億"},{"start":4587.92,"end":4589.92,"text":"那你的目標怎麼會修整成91億"},{"start":4594.17,"end":4596.17,"text":"資料可能我"},{"start":4596.17,"end":4598.17,"text":"我們再檢視一下好了"},{"start":4598.17,"end":4600.17,"text":"因為"},{"start":4600.17,"end":4602.17,"text":"我都幫你們看數字"},{"start":4602.17,"end":4604.17,"text":"因為你們這個東西要檢視一下"},{"start":4604.17,"end":4606.17,"text":"然後你再把正確的報告給我"},{"start":4606.17,"end":4608.17,"text":"因為不然這樣子我們都覺得說"},{"start":4608.17,"end":4610.17,"text":"689億變91億的目標"},{"start":4610.17,"end":4612.17,"text":"這是什麼東西"},{"start":4612.17,"end":4614.17,"text":"然後第二個我想次長這麼多年"},{"start":4614.17,"end":4616.17,"text":"很清楚產值跟商機不同"},{"start":4616.17,"end":4618.17,"text":"商機都是碰風的"},{"start":4618.17,"end":4620.17,"text":"產值比較是知道"},{"start":4620.17,"end":4622.17,"text":"所以你那個東西要去把它分清楚"},{"start":4622.17,"end":4624.17,"text":"不要把你的商機當成是KPI"},{"start":4624.17,"end":4626.17,"text":"這個要分清楚"},{"start":4626.17,"end":4628.17,"text":"然後你們的成果"},{"start":4628.17,"end":4630.17,"text":"我認為還是看得不是很清楚"},{"start":4630.17,"end":4632.17,"text":"因為你們的成果大概都還是數字"},{"start":4632.17,"end":4634.17,"text":"這個"},{"start":4634.17,"end":4636.17,"text":"我再找你們研究"},{"start":4636.17,"end":4638.17,"text":"就是常常我們在講要求OKR"},{"start":4638.17,"end":4640.17,"text":"我要的是"},{"start":4640.17,"end":4642.17,"text":"不是output"},{"start":4642.17,"end":4644.17,"text":"輔導多少家怎麼樣拿到多少錢"},{"start":4644.17,"end":4646.17,"text":"那個對我都不重要"},{"start":4646.17,"end":4648.17,"text":"重要的是他的outcome跟impact"},{"start":4648.71,"end":4650.71,"text":"我到底是幫助他解決的是什麼問題"},{"start":4650.71,"end":4652.71,"text":"要回到你"},{"start":4652.71,"end":4654.71,"text":"最前面調查的那個他的一個缺口"},{"start":4654.71,"end":4656.71,"text":"那真正才會"},{"start":4656.71,"end":4658.71,"text":"感覺感受到"},{"start":4658.71,"end":4660.71,"text":"然後最後這個就是"},{"start":4662.42,"end":4664.42,"text":"這個"},{"start":4663.52,"end":4665.52,"text":"昨天禮拜一的公廳"},{"start":4665.52,"end":4667.52,"text":"或者是人家在講"},{"start":4667.52,"end":4669.52,"text":"我記得國科會也有給"},{"start":4669.52,"end":4671.52,"text":"訴發部前還是什麼"},{"start":4671.52,"end":4673.52,"text":"去幫你們經濟部做"},{"start":4673.52,"end":4675.52,"text":"整個中小企業"},{"start":4675.52,"end":4677.52,"text":"或者是整個經濟部的"},{"start":4677.52,"end":4679.52,"text":"我們企業申請資源的一戰士"},{"start":4680.5,"end":4682.5,"text":"我們才講資訊入口而已"},{"start":4682.5,"end":4684.5,"text":"這個進度是做到哪裡去了"},{"start":4685.68,"end":4687.68,"text":"這個可能要"},{"start":4687.68,"end":4689.68,"text":"我們再跟訴發部來了解一下"},{"start":4689.68,"end":4691.68,"text":"因為知道為什麼嗎"},{"start":4691.68,"end":4693.68,"text":"因為是本來經濟部中心署要做的"},{"start":4693.68,"end":4695.68,"text":"中心署不想做"},{"start":4695.68,"end":4697.68,"text":"是因為主改"},{"start":4697.68,"end":4699.68,"text":"主改成立了訴發部"},{"start":4699.68,"end":4701.68,"text":"所以我們就把業務移撥的時候"},{"start":4701.68,"end":4703.68,"text":"就把這項業務就移撥到訴發部"},{"start":4703.68,"end":4705.68,"text":"所以我們再跟訴發部再了解一下"},{"start":4705.68,"end":4707.68,"text":"我覺得這樣子"},{"start":4707.68,"end":4709.68,"text":"真的不好如果可以就拿回來自己做也行"},{"start":4709.68,"end":4711.68,"text":"就是說因為這個是"},{"start":4711.68,"end":4713.68,"text":"申請你們的這個輔助"},{"start":4713.68,"end":4715.68,"text":"完全已經過去兩年多三年"},{"start":4715.68,"end":4717.68,"text":"然後還沒有看到成果"},{"start":4718.31,"end":4720.31,"text":"這個大家都在罵"},{"start":4720.31,"end":4722.31,"text":"我昨天去廠商那邊"},{"start":4722.31,"end":4724.31,"text":"也是啊 我不知道在哪裡賺錢啊"},{"start":4724.31,"end":4726.31,"text":"然後到底我是不是用啊"},{"start":4726.31,"end":4728.31,"text":"有沒有超過期限啊"},{"start":4728.31,"end":4730.31,"text":"我可以申請多少"},{"start":4730.31,"end":4732.31,"text":"我要找誰啊 完全不知道"},{"start":4732.31,"end":4734.31,"text":"跟委員報告我們在上個禮拜"},{"start":4734.31,"end":4736.31,"text":"成立一個Line At的一個"},{"start":4736.31,"end":4738.31,"text":"我不要Line At喔 因為你們的網站"},{"start":4738.31,"end":4740.31,"text":"合期多啊 然後資訊一堆"},{"start":4740.31,"end":4742.31,"text":"跟委員報告這個Line At一個好處"},{"start":4742.31,"end":4744.31,"text":"就是我們有新的政策我們就會推播出去"},{"start":4744.31,"end":4746.31,"text":"而且目前Line At這個網站上面"},{"start":4746.31,"end":4748.31,"text":"我們已經有把經濟部"},{"start":4748.31,"end":4750.31,"text":"還有各部的提供給中央行業資源"},{"start":4750.31,"end":4752.31,"text":"都已經整理在上面"},{"start":4752.31,"end":4754.31,"text":"那個不夠智慧"},{"start":4754.31,"end":4756.31,"text":"現在都AI的時代"},{"start":4756.31,"end":4758.31,"text":"在跟當初國科會給你們"},{"start":4758.31,"end":4760.31,"text":"給速發報告去幫你們經濟部做"},{"start":4760.31,"end":4762.31,"text":"那完全不符合國科會的要求啊"},{"start":4763.32,"end":4765.32,"text":"那個還是一般的Portal而已"},{"start":4765.32,"end":4768.32,"text":"這個在定期請中氣署再去檢討一下好不好"},{"start":4768.32,"end":4770.32,"text":"就看一下這個速發部的狀況"},{"start":4770.32,"end":4772.32,"text":"最後只在耽誤30秒"},{"start":4772.32,"end":4774.32,"text":"部長可以下台"},{"start":4774.32,"end":4776.32,"text":"我們請這個國科會"},{"start":4776.69,"end":4777.69,"text":"30秒就好"},{"start":4778.04,"end":4779.04,"text":"國科會"},{"start":4783.15,"end":4785.15,"text":"我看完你的報告"},{"start":4785.15,"end":4787.15,"text":"只有30秒給你建議"},{"start":4787.84,"end":4789.84,"text":"國科會跟國發會一樣"},{"start":4789.84,"end":4791.84,"text":"國發會也是有一個地方創生"},{"start":4791.84,"end":4793.84,"text":"或者是這些新創的補助"},{"start":4793.84,"end":4795.84,"text":"很多都是跟經濟部我覺得是重疊"},{"start":4795.84,"end":4797.84,"text":"這我在國發會已經唸過了"},{"start":4797.84,"end":4799.84,"text":"國科會這邊也是"},{"start":4799.84,"end":4801.84,"text":"你的報告裡頭有加速器"},{"start":4801.84,"end":4803.84,"text":"又有新創培育又有人才訓練"},{"start":4803.84,"end":4805.84,"text":"到底你們跟這些經濟部"},{"start":4805.84,"end":4807.84,"text":"有什麼差別啊"},{"start":4807.84,"end":4809.84,"text":"這資源都是重複浪費理當的"},{"start":4811.62,"end":4813.62,"text":"我想跟委員報告"},{"start":4813.62,"end":4818.62,"text":"在國發會有一個三個部會的聯合系統"},{"start":4818.62,"end":4822.62,"text":"基本上我們國科會的定位是在比較early stage"},{"start":4822.62,"end":4825.62,"text":"本來創業的路程就是比較長遠"},{"start":4825.62,"end":4828.62,"text":"中小企業沒有early stage的"},{"start":4830.15,"end":4832.15,"text":"國發會新創不是early stage"},{"start":4832.15,"end":4834.15,"text":"我們的angel放的不是early stage"},{"start":4838.11,"end":4842.11,"text":"我覺得你們兩個會去好好做一下sync"},{"start":4842.11,"end":4845.11,"text":"我很討厭看到這種資源重複的東西"},{"start":4845.11,"end":4847.11,"text":"審計部也唸"},{"start":4847.11,"end":4849.11,"text":"預算中心也唸"},{"start":4849.11,"end":4851.11,"text":"然後我們今天是中小園"},{"start":4851.11,"end":4852.11,"text":"你們那個產學合作"},{"start":4852.11,"end":4854.11,"text":"科學園區的產學合作"},{"start":4854.11,"end":4856.11,"text":"裡面根本不是中小園"},{"start":4856.37,"end":4858.37,"text":"所以我覺得你這個東西不太對啦"},{"start":4858.37,"end":4860.37,"text":"我只是說你回去再把你們的"},{"start":4860.37,"end":4862.37,"text":"這個施政的策略在這一塊"},{"start":4862.37,"end":4864.37,"text":"如果沒有你就說沒有"},{"start":4864.69,"end":4866.69,"text":"如果你真的有中小園的"},{"start":4867.35,"end":4869.35,"text":"那個才是你們國科會看看有什麼東西"},{"start":4869.35,"end":4872.35,"text":"在這個產學合作是中小園可以做的"},{"start":4872.35,"end":4873.35,"text":"好不好"},{"start":4873.35,"end":4875.35,"text":"這個是我給你們的建議"},{"start":4875.35,"end":4876.35,"text":"我看完你們的報告"},{"start":4876.35,"end":4877.35,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":4879.47,"end":4881.47,"text":"謝謝副組長"},{"start":4882.26,"end":4883.26,"text":"再見"},{"start":4885.48,"end":4886.48,"text":"再見"},{"start":4888.94,"end":4889.94,"text":"再見"},{"start":4892.14,"end":4894.14,"text":"好 接下來我們請中嘉賓委員質詢"},{"start":4907.58,"end":4909.58,"text":"主席在黨委員先進"},{"start":4909.58,"end":4912.58,"text":"列席的政務商商官員會場公主辦媒體機構的先生"},{"start":4912.58,"end":4914.58,"text":"我們有請經濟部和次長"},{"start":4914.58,"end":4916.58,"text":"請經濟部和次長"},{"start":4921.25,"end":4922.25,"text":"中委員早"},{"start":4922.25,"end":4923.25,"text":"次長因為本週一"},{"start":4923.25,"end":4925.25,"text":"早已排了一個同樣的公聽會"},{"start":4925.25,"end":4926.25,"text":"我的題目也是一樣"},{"start":4926.25,"end":4928.25,"text":"所以應該您對這個題目跟本席的"},{"start":4928.25,"end":4930.25,"text":"要詢問的部分應該有所準備了"},{"start":4930.25,"end":4932.25,"text":"我們要強調的就是政府的科專"},{"start":4932.25,"end":4935.25,"text":"要兼顧區域跟產業的均衡"},{"start":4935.25,"end":4937.25,"text":"尤其是研發成果要能創造"},{"start":4937.25,"end":4940.25,"text":"我們傳產未來的市場升級"},{"start":4940.25,"end":4943.25,"text":"傳產要升級市場就要先升級"},{"start":4943.25,"end":4944.25,"text":"我們現在看"},{"start":4944.25,"end":4945.25,"text":"來 請問次長"},{"start":4945.25,"end":4946.25,"text":"那麼今天的題目說"},{"start":4946.25,"end":4949.25,"text":"對於現在中小園企業的發展困境"},{"start":4949.25,"end":4951.25,"text":"目前政府有什麼樣的作為因應呢"},{"start":4952.19,"end":4954.19,"text":"其實我們在融資貸款"},{"start":4954.19,"end":4959.19,"text":"我們在技術升級還有市場唾銷等等"},{"start":4959.19,"end":4960.19,"text":"我們都有一些相關的"},{"start":4960.19,"end":4962.19,"text":"就是我上面寫的嘛"},{"start":4962.19,"end":4965.19,"text":"普惠貸款 租稅優惠 保證融資額"},{"start":4965.19,"end":4967.19,"text":"度級乘數 數位轉型 淨零轉型"},{"start":4967.19,"end":4969.19,"text":"還有發展國內外的通路 對不對"},{"start":4969.19,"end":4970.19,"text":"是"},{"start":4970.19,"end":4971.19,"text":"所以你們正在研究一個"},{"start":4971.19,"end":4973.19,"text":"中小園企業多元振興發展計畫"},{"start":4973.19,"end":4974.19,"text":"要法制化"},{"start":4974.19,"end":4978.19,"text":"要推動一個升級發展條例 是不是"},{"start":4978.19,"end":4982.19,"text":"我們會把它定位在中小園企業"},{"start":4982.19,"end":4984.19,"text":"有沒有制定一個發展條例"},{"start":4984.19,"end":4985.19,"text":"發展條例"},{"start":4985.19,"end":4986.19,"text":"有"},{"start":4986.19,"end":4987.19,"text":"所以這個是就有"},{"start":4987.19,"end":4991.19,"text":"現有執行的中小園企業多元振興發展計畫"},{"start":4991.19,"end":4993.19,"text":"我們要推動這個條例的立法 是不是"},{"start":4993.19,"end":4994.19,"text":"是"},{"start":4994.19,"end":4995.19,"text":"好 那目前你們在這發展計畫當中"},{"start":4995.19,"end":4997.19,"text":"在今年度變了109億"},{"start":4997.19,"end":5000.19,"text":"看起來不少嘛 但是我們往下看"},{"start":5000.19,"end":5001.19,"text":"其實根據審計部的報告"},{"start":5001.19,"end":5004.19,"text":"他說這個產業發展政策攸關"},{"start":5004.19,"end":5006.19,"text":"結構轉型國家競爭力"},{"start":5006.19,"end":5011.19,"text":"但是目前我們未能均衡引導或妥當的配置"},{"start":5011.19,"end":5015.19,"text":"他說政府的科技創新資源持續擴張"},{"start":5015.19,"end":5017.19,"text":"但是集中在半導體"},{"start":5017.19,"end":5020.19,"text":"中小園的多元振興發展方案"},{"start":5020.19,"end":5021.19,"text":"就剛剛你講的喔"},{"start":5021.19,"end":5024.19,"text":"反而是114年的116億"},{"start":5024.19,"end":5028.19,"text":"到今年反而是減少了7億"},{"start":5030.18,"end":5033.18,"text":"是啦 不對啦 你們剛剛說不是要解決嗎"},{"start":5033.18,"end":5034.18,"text":"所以還變了109億嗎"},{"start":5034.18,"end":5035.18,"text":"但你看一看"},{"start":5035.18,"end":5037.18,"text":"我們的科技發展計畫預算"},{"start":5037.18,"end":5041.18,"text":"去年是1396億 將近1400億"},{"start":5041.18,"end":5043.18,"text":"今年成長到1665億"},{"start":5043.18,"end":5045.18,"text":"成長了快270億耶"},{"start":5045.18,"end":5047.18,"text":"但是我們中小園的 你說要重視"},{"start":5047.18,"end":5048.18,"text":"要解決要困境"},{"start":5048.18,"end":5051.18,"text":"結果今年不增反減 怎麼回事"},{"start":5051.68,"end":5052.68,"text":"跟我們報告"},{"start":5052.68,"end":5055.68,"text":"因為這個會牽涉到各部會"},{"start":5055.68,"end":5059.68,"text":"因為我們這個統計是各部會的相關計畫"},{"start":5059.68,"end":5060.68,"text":"所以是其他部會的問題"},{"start":5060.68,"end":5061.68,"text":"不是我經濟部的問題"},{"start":5061.68,"end":5063.68,"text":"我們可能我們再了解一下到底"},{"start":5063.68,"end":5066.68,"text":"我就說嘛 我星期就提出來了"},{"start":5066.68,"end":5067.68,"text":"充足的時間準備"},{"start":5067.68,"end":5068.68,"text":"來 我們繼續往下看"},{"start":5068.68,"end":5070.68,"text":"為什麼會這樣子"},{"start":5070.68,"end":5072.68,"text":"這到底是不是經濟部還是整個政府部會"},{"start":5072.68,"end":5073.68,"text":"還是整個台灣發展的問題"},{"start":5073.68,"end":5074.68,"text":"我們看一下"},{"start":5074.68,"end":5076.68,"text":"我們資訊電子產業"},{"start":5076.68,"end":5079.68,"text":"包括電子產品光學製品"},{"start":5079.68,"end":5081.68,"text":"那麼加上電子零組件"},{"start":5081.68,"end":5084.68,"text":"先看我們這個電腦電子部分"},{"start":5084.68,"end":5088.68,"text":"14年去年的上市櫃的營業利益是3705億"},{"start":5088.68,"end":5092.68,"text":"如果加上電子零組件是2兆1713億"},{"start":5092.68,"end":5095.68,"text":"如果我們放到資訊電子產業的話"},{"start":5095.68,"end":5096.68,"text":"大概它的配比"},{"start":5096.68,"end":5099.68,"text":"台灣的產業的一個產值"},{"start":5099.68,"end":5101.68,"text":"大概是2兆5000億"},{"start":5101.68,"end":5104.68,"text":"對上非資訊電子產業的7000億"},{"start":5104.7,"end":5105.7,"text":"有沒有看到很懸殊"},{"start":5106.25,"end":5107.25,"text":"這是台灣的發展情況"},{"start":5107.25,"end":5109.25,"text":"你要說這是行政院的問題還是經濟部的問題"},{"start":5109.25,"end":5113.25,"text":"這就是目前半導體跟AIDA爆發造成的情況"},{"start":5113.25,"end":5117.25,"text":"那麼114年的上市櫃的營業利益率"},{"start":5117.64,"end":5119.64,"text":"電子零組件高達三成"},{"start":5120.26,"end":5122.26,"text":"製造業的總體製造業大概一成二"},{"start":5122.96,"end":5124.96,"text":"非製造業只剩一成"},{"start":5125.56,"end":5126.56,"text":"這就是目前我們的現況"},{"start":5126.56,"end":5128.56,"text":"也是今天我們講的困境往下看"},{"start":5128.56,"end":5130.56,"text":"那我們來看看從業人口"},{"start":5130.96,"end":5133.96,"text":"資訊電子產業占全體創業人口的7%"},{"start":5133.96,"end":5136.96,"text":"寫13.5%你可能算不出來7%"},{"start":5136.96,"end":5138.96,"text":"我們的工業人口有400萬"},{"start":5138.96,"end":5140.96,"text":"其中的製造業將近300萬"},{"start":5140.96,"end":5143.96,"text":"而在這個制裁當中電子零組件60萬"},{"start":5145.34,"end":5148.34,"text":"電腦電子跟光學製品剛進25萬"},{"start":5148.34,"end":5152.34,"text":"合計兩者的資訊電子產業85萬"},{"start":5152.34,"end":5156.34,"text":"但是這85萬以外的非資訊電子產業的製造業"},{"start":5156.34,"end":5158.34,"text":"是超過200萬"},{"start":5158.34,"end":5160.34,"text":"非製造業工業有超過100萬"},{"start":5160.34,"end":5163.34,"text":"我們的服務業高達709萬"},{"start":5164.19,"end":5167.19,"text":"加上農業部門我們整個非資訊電子產業的人口"},{"start":5167.19,"end":5169.19,"text":"是1077萬"},{"start":5169.19,"end":5171.19,"text":"對上資訊電子產業"},{"start":5173.53,"end":5174.53,"text":"市長有沒有發現"},{"start":5174.53,"end":5178.53,"text":"我們全國的從業人員有高達1162億"},{"start":5178.83,"end":5180.83,"text":"資訊電子產業它只占7%"},{"start":5181.53,"end":5182.53,"text":"往下看"},{"start":5182.68,"end":5184.68,"text":"但是你看看這些高科技產業"},{"start":5184.68,"end":5187.68,"text":"它的營業利益是其他部門的三倍"},{"start":5188.87,"end":5190.87,"text":"利益率是人家的3.5倍"},{"start":5191.79,"end":5193.79,"text":"賺的多很會賺"},{"start":5193.79,"end":5195.79,"text":"它的從業人員只有7%"},{"start":5196.3,"end":5199.3,"text":"而且我們回到我們政府資源配置"},{"start":5199.3,"end":5200.3,"text":"更誇張"},{"start":5200.65,"end":5202.65,"text":"差距高達16倍"},{"start":5202.64,"end":5203.64,"text":"什麼意思"},{"start":5203.64,"end":5205.64,"text":"就是從你115年的科技發展計畫"},{"start":5205.64,"end":5207.64,"text":"是1665億"},{"start":5207.64,"end":5211.64,"text":"對上我們鍾小維的109億"},{"start":5211.64,"end":5213.64,"text":"市長有沒有發現問題在哪裡"},{"start":5214.15,"end":5215.15,"text":"跟我們報告"},{"start":5215.15,"end":5220.15,"text":"這個就是過去我們在高科技產業"},{"start":5220.15,"end":5224.15,"text":"因為整個全球AI的崛起的一個結果"},{"start":5224.15,"end":5227.15,"text":"所以為什麼總統這一次特別要加碼"},{"start":5227.15,"end":5231.15,"text":"對鍾小維企業的轉型升級的"},{"start":5231.15,"end":5234.15,"text":"所以今年對鍾小維企業的資源投入不足"},{"start":5234.15,"end":5235.15,"text":"是最後一年"},{"start":5235.15,"end":5236.15,"text":"明年開始我們會增加"},{"start":5236.15,"end":5238.15,"text":"對我們會增加這個預算"},{"start":5238.15,"end":5240.15,"text":"那我告訴你增加要注意哪些問題"},{"start":5240.15,"end":5244.15,"text":"我們就單單看這115年的1665億好了"},{"start":5244.15,"end":5246.15,"text":"就算是在電子產業高科技部門"},{"start":5246.15,"end":5248.15,"text":"政府資源集中在高科技"},{"start":5248.15,"end":5249.15,"text":"而且集中在哪裡"},{"start":5249.15,"end":5251.15,"text":"集中在七都"},{"start":5251.15,"end":5254.15,"text":"你們回去把經濟部的對鍾小維的這些計畫"},{"start":5254.15,"end":5257.15,"text":"你去把我們的產業技術師"},{"start":5257.15,"end":5259.15,"text":"他們所提供的那些計畫"},{"start":5259.15,"end":5260.15,"text":"你把你們的"},{"start":5261.22,"end":5263.22,"text":"去年度跟今年度的執行的"},{"start":5263.22,"end":5264.22,"text":"希望盤點一下"},{"start":5264.22,"end":5266.22,"text":"都在北部都在六都"},{"start":5267.71,"end":5268.71,"text":"我屏東呢"},{"start":5268.71,"end":5269.71,"text":"我翻了半天"},{"start":5269.71,"end":5271.71,"text":"在某個項目下我只找一家"},{"start":5272.12,"end":5273.12,"text":"好再往下看"},{"start":5273.12,"end":5275.12,"text":"所以我們認為政府"},{"start":5275.12,"end":5278.12,"text":"為了要讓我們的傳產能夠升級"},{"start":5278.12,"end":5281.12,"text":"現有的我們以技術師的科技專案來講"},{"start":5281.12,"end":5282.12,"text":"科專計畫來講"},{"start":5282.12,"end":5285.12,"text":"有學界科專法人科專企業科專"},{"start":5285.12,"end":5288.12,"text":"那一天我才知道原來法人科專是七大七小"},{"start":5288.12,"end":5290.12,"text":"那麼學界跟法人呢"},{"start":5290.12,"end":5292.12,"text":"學界是要從0到1"},{"start":5292.12,"end":5293.12,"text":"從無到有"},{"start":5293.12,"end":5296.12,"text":"法人科專是要它應用到業界"},{"start":5296.12,"end":5297.12,"text":"而業界的科專呢"},{"start":5297.12,"end":5298.12,"text":"它要怎麼樣"},{"start":5298.12,"end":5299.12,"text":"要市場化"},{"start":5299.12,"end":5300.12,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5300.12,"end":5302.12,"text":"那這集的產發組的角色是什麼"},{"start":5303.46,"end":5306.46,"text":"就是要協助相關的技術"},{"start":5306.46,"end":5308.46,"text":"商品化要能夠落地"},{"start":5308.46,"end":5309.46,"text":"我們怎麼合量"},{"start":5309.46,"end":5310.46,"text":"他有沒有做好"},{"start":5311.96,"end":5315.96,"text":"我們當然就是要看他未來產值的增加有多少"},{"start":5315.96,"end":5316.96,"text":"我那天啊"},{"start":5317.87,"end":5320.87,"text":"就在我們的李署長那天的公聽會"},{"start":5320.87,"end":5321.87,"text":"我就提出來他有聽到"},{"start":5321.87,"end":5322.87,"text":"我說目前啊"},{"start":5322.87,"end":5324.87,"text":"以我們的法人科專來講"},{"start":5324.87,"end":5326.87,"text":"我們編的預算100元投入啊"},{"start":5326.87,"end":5328.87,"text":"他說會有30元當中"},{"start":5328.87,"end":5331.87,"text":"分別是15元的計轉的收入"},{"start":5332.83,"end":5334.83,"text":"15元是輔導的收入"},{"start":5334.83,"end":5335.83,"text":"那我就問一個問題啦"},{"start":5335.83,"end":5337.83,"text":"那其他70元呢"},{"start":5338.49,"end":5340.49,"text":"其他之間你怎麼去衡量他的績效"},{"start":5340.49,"end":5342.49,"text":"到目前為止我們看到經濟部"},{"start":5342.49,"end":5344.49,"text":"從技術師提供的資料來看"},{"start":5345.63,"end":5347.63,"text":"我們的法人科專每投入100元"},{"start":5347.63,"end":5351.63,"text":"他說會創造30元的回報"},{"start":5351.63,"end":5353.63,"text":"很清楚的可以看到15元是計轉"},{"start":5353.63,"end":5354.63,"text":"15元是服務"},{"start":5355.4,"end":5356.4,"text":"好"},{"start":5356.4,"end":5357.4,"text":"那70元怎麼衡量"},{"start":5358.81,"end":5360.81,"text":"有沒有辦法去衡量他的績效"},{"start":5360.81,"end":5361.81,"text":"我相信應該是有績效的"},{"start":5361.81,"end":5363.81,"text":"怎麼衡量我建議他一個"},{"start":5363.83,"end":5365.83,"text":"把這些法人科專企業科專"},{"start":5365.83,"end":5368.83,"text":"投入的資源對應這些企業成長"},{"start":5368.83,"end":5369.83,"text":"後來的營業額"},{"start":5369.83,"end":5371.83,"text":"他的資本額的成長"},{"start":5371.83,"end":5373.83,"text":"至少再對一個什麼"},{"start":5373.83,"end":5375.83,"text":"我們的戶稅署署長在這裡"},{"start":5375.83,"end":5376.83,"text":"去查一下"},{"start":5376.83,"end":5379.83,"text":"這些接受我們法人科專企業科專"},{"start":5379.83,"end":5381.83,"text":"他的成果有沒有創造稅收啊"},{"start":5381.83,"end":5383.83,"text":"這回會估計得到"},{"start":5384.47,"end":5385.47,"text":"可以嘛"},{"start":5385.47,"end":5387.47,"text":"不是按照他們自己寫的報告說"},{"start":5387.47,"end":5388.47,"text":"我輔導了幾家他們"},{"start":5388.47,"end":5389.47,"text":"興興向榮"},{"start":5389.47,"end":5390.47,"text":"成長很好"},{"start":5390.47,"end":5393.47,"text":"你看看他的繳的稅有沒有更加嘛"},{"start":5393.47,"end":5394.47,"text":"如果繳的稅有增加"},{"start":5394.47,"end":5395.47,"text":"我就相信"},{"start":5395.47,"end":5397.47,"text":"當然不是馬上增加啦"},{"start":5397.47,"end":5398.47,"text":"可能要看個5年"},{"start":5398.47,"end":5399.47,"text":"看個5年的成果"},{"start":5399.47,"end":5401.47,"text":"所以是不是可以就這個部分"},{"start":5401.47,"end":5403.47,"text":"未來在就我們的績效恆恆的時候"},{"start":5403.47,"end":5406.47,"text":"可以勾連到我們財政部"},{"start":5406.47,"end":5408.47,"text":"勾連到我們金管行內的指標"},{"start":5408.47,"end":5409.47,"text":"可不可以"},{"start":5409.55,"end":5411.55,"text":"合苗一個公司的成長是可以從這個嘛"},{"start":5411.55,"end":5412.55,"text":"繳的稅"},{"start":5412.55,"end":5413.55,"text":"他的營業規模"},{"start":5413.55,"end":5416.55,"text":"是不是還有他股票的市值的成長嘛"},{"start":5416.55,"end":5417.55,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":5417.55,"end":5418.55,"text":"往下看"},{"start":5418.55,"end":5419.55,"text":"我很快就算了"},{"start":5419.55,"end":5420.55,"text":"再跟主席要求一些時間"},{"start":5420.55,"end":5421.55,"text":"其實啊"},{"start":5421.55,"end":5423.55,"text":"傳產不是那麼的不堪"},{"start":5424.6,"end":5426.6,"text":"我們目前談模具衝壓"},{"start":5426.6,"end":5427.6,"text":"我們"},{"start":5427.6,"end":5428.6,"text":"我們舉例啦"},{"start":5428.6,"end":5429.6,"text":"台灣呢"},{"start":5429.6,"end":5430.6,"text":"我們我一直強調"},{"start":5430.6,"end":5431.6,"text":"我們台灣的傳產"},{"start":5431.6,"end":5433.6,"text":"有幾個很厲害的隱形冠軍"},{"start":5433.6,"end":5434.6,"text":"有模具衝壓的"},{"start":5434.6,"end":5436.6,"text":"有金屬加工的"},{"start":5436.6,"end":5437.6,"text":"有小型隱形的"},{"start":5437.6,"end":5439.6,"text":"那你來看看現在最紅的川湖"},{"start":5440.62,"end":5441.62,"text":"他在20年也不是傳產"},{"start":5442.88,"end":5444.88,"text":"他在2000年之前就是傳產啊"},{"start":5444.88,"end":5445.88,"text":"他做什麼"},{"start":5445.88,"end":5446.88,"text":"做家具啊"},{"start":5446.88,"end":5447.88,"text":"做滑軌啊"},{"start":5447.88,"end":5448.88,"text":"現在呢他做到什麼"},{"start":5448.88,"end":5449.88,"text":"AI伺服器的精密搗軌啊"},{"start":5450.67,"end":5452.67,"text":"他一年可以投入在"},{"start":5453.22,"end":5456.22,"text":"他的專利的保護可以將近1億台幣"},{"start":5456.22,"end":5457.22,"text":"我們講義美好了"},{"start":5457.66,"end":5458.66,"text":"義美是做什麼的"},{"start":5460.06,"end":5461.06,"text":"做食品的吧"},{"start":5461.54,"end":5463.54,"text":"你還能想到現在做機器狗嗎"},{"start":5464.16,"end":5465.16,"text":"他是傳產啊"},{"start":5465.16,"end":5467.16,"text":"那我說雷虎刻意的也是做玩具的"},{"start":5468.24,"end":5469.24,"text":"他現在是做什麼"},{"start":5469.24,"end":5470.24,"text":"做無人機啊"},{"start":5470.55,"end":5474.55,"text":"所以我是覺得經濟部要對傳產的思維跟想像往下看"},{"start":5475.7,"end":5476.7,"text":"就是今天呢"},{"start":5476.7,"end":5478.7,"text":"在你們星期一的報告當中"},{"start":5478.7,"end":5480.7,"text":"你們的所謂的中小微企業轉型"},{"start":5480.7,"end":5483.7,"text":"升級與產業創新條例的檢討"},{"start":5483.7,"end":5485.7,"text":"你們當中呢特別講到什麼"},{"start":5485.7,"end":5488.7,"text":"你們會把金融科技發展與創新實驗條例"},{"start":5488.7,"end":5490.7,"text":"你們會把資源循環推動法"},{"start":5490.7,"end":5492.7,"text":"你會把人工智慧機構放進去"},{"start":5492.7,"end":5493.7,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5493.99,"end":5494.99,"text":"你知道我的一個什麼"},{"start":5496.25,"end":5499.25,"text":"你知道有沒有聽過無人載具科技創新實驗條例"},{"start":5500.02,"end":5501.02,"text":"市長有沒有聽過"},{"start":5501.85,"end":5502.85,"text":"有"},{"start":5502.85,"end":5503.85,"text":"你知道這個主管機關是誰嗎"},{"start":5503.85,"end":5504.85,"text":"是我們經濟部"},{"start":5504.85,"end":5506.85,"text":"對什麼設立的"},{"start":5506.85,"end":5507.85,"text":"2018年"},{"start":5507.85,"end":5508.85,"text":"為了什麼"},{"start":5510.31,"end":5513.31,"text":"但是我看了他的法架構往下看"},{"start":5513.31,"end":5514.31,"text":"他其實呢"},{"start":5514.31,"end":5515.31,"text":"很完整"},{"start":5515.31,"end":5516.31,"text":"陸海空都有"},{"start":5516.31,"end":5517.31,"text":"而且呢"},{"start":5517.31,"end":5518.31,"text":"他在很多的調適上呢"},{"start":5518.31,"end":5519.31,"text":"對"},{"start":5519.31,"end":5521.31,"text":"針對我們未來所謂的富國神山"},{"start":5521.31,"end":5522.31,"text":"我們的無人載具的產業"},{"start":5522.31,"end":5524.31,"text":"他已經有大概的"},{"start":5524.31,"end":5525.31,"text":"那個輪廓都規劃下來"},{"start":5525.31,"end":5527.31,"text":"我昨天的記者會"},{"start":5527.31,"end":5529.31,"text":"我就就這幾個部分"},{"start":5529.31,"end":5531.31,"text":"我就盤點了這個實驗條例"},{"start":5531.31,"end":5533.31,"text":"他跟目前"},{"start":5533.31,"end":5534.31,"text":"所謂的無人機專法"},{"start":5534.31,"end":5535.31,"text":"有民眾黨團版的"},{"start":5535.31,"end":5537.31,"text":"有國民黨團版的"},{"start":5537.31,"end":5538.31,"text":"有賴斯堡委員個人版的"},{"start":5538.31,"end":5539.31,"text":"我把它盤點一下"},{"start":5539.31,"end":5540.31,"text":"跟現況"},{"start":5540.31,"end":5541.31,"text":"大概有四個優勢"},{"start":5541.31,"end":5542.31,"text":"第一啊"},{"start":5542.31,"end":5544.31,"text":"我們這個實驗條例呢"},{"start":5544.31,"end":5545.31,"text":"他的定義檢要"},{"start":5545.31,"end":5546.31,"text":"涵蓋完整"},{"start":5546.31,"end":5547.31,"text":"那麼至於現況跟藍白板呢"},{"start":5547.31,"end":5548.31,"text":"功能混雜"},{"start":5548.31,"end":5549.31,"text":"掛一漏萬"},{"start":5549.31,"end":5551.31,"text":"那對於這個無人載具產業"},{"start":5551.31,"end":5552.31,"text":"所需要的申請的"},{"start":5552.31,"end":5553.31,"text":"核備程序"},{"start":5553.31,"end":5554.31,"text":"我們這個實驗條例"},{"start":5554.31,"end":5555.31,"text":"是單一窗口"},{"start":5555.31,"end":5556.31,"text":"聯席審查"},{"start":5556.31,"end":5557.31,"text":"目前的情況"},{"start":5557.31,"end":5558.31,"text":"跟藍白板呢"},{"start":5558.31,"end":5559.31,"text":"也要自行跑鑒"},{"start":5559.31,"end":5560.31,"text":"主管審查"},{"start":5560.31,"end":5562.31,"text":"至於我們需要的測試場域"},{"start":5562.31,"end":5565.31,"text":"我們目前實驗條例是一次申請"},{"start":5565.31,"end":5567.31,"text":"目前實驗條例是一次申請"},{"start":5567.48,"end":5568.48,"text":"經常使用"},{"start":5568.48,"end":5570.48,"text":"但是呢現況是什麼"},{"start":5570.48,"end":5571.48,"text":"是逐次申請"},{"start":5571.48,"end":5572.48,"text":"現實使用"},{"start":5572.48,"end":5574.48,"text":"最重要是法令的進合"},{"start":5574.48,"end":5576.48,"text":"我們對無人載具有相關的法"},{"start":5576.48,"end":5577.48,"text":"有傳播法"},{"start":5577.48,"end":5578.48,"text":"有民用航空法"},{"start":5578.48,"end":5579.48,"text":"有道交條例"},{"start":5579.48,"end":5580.48,"text":"有傳言法"},{"start":5580.48,"end":5583.48,"text":"還有我們很多很多"},{"start":5583.48,"end":5585.48,"text":"關於無線電磁波的"},{"start":5585.48,"end":5587.48,"text":"頻譜的管制等等的"},{"start":5587.88,"end":5589.88,"text":"這些在我們的實驗條例裡面"},{"start":5589.88,"end":5591.88,"text":"排除限制一致到位"},{"start":5591.88,"end":5592.88,"text":"可是相對的呢"},{"start":5592.88,"end":5594.88,"text":"目前在說的無人機狀法當中呢"},{"start":5594.88,"end":5596.88,"text":"他們縱使有討論到這些"},{"start":5596.88,"end":5598.88,"text":"他對於管制的法令很多啊"},{"start":5598.88,"end":5600.88,"text":"他的條文不清楚"},{"start":5601.99,"end":5602.99,"text":"我們的實驗條例啊"},{"start":5602.99,"end":5604.99,"text":"他把所有的條詞都列出來了"},{"start":5606.31,"end":5607.31,"text":"是的"},{"start":5607.31,"end":5609.31,"text":"你們回去要不要再看一下這個實驗條例"},{"start":5609.31,"end":5611.31,"text":"目前這個實驗條例在我們經濟部"},{"start":5611.31,"end":5612.31,"text":"是誰在輔導"},{"start":5612.42,"end":5616.42,"text":"是我們產業技術師這邊在註冊"},{"start":5616.42,"end":5618.42,"text":"產業技術師他今天不在嘛對不對"},{"start":5618.42,"end":5620.42,"text":"回去可不可以請你們再盤點一下"},{"start":5620.42,"end":5624.42,"text":"針對目前你們所要協助的中小微企業"},{"start":5624.42,"end":5626.42,"text":"要協助產轉型"},{"start":5626.42,"end":5627.42,"text":"要求他升級"},{"start":5627.42,"end":5629.42,"text":"那麼無人載具是一個大好機會"},{"start":5629.42,"end":5630.42,"text":"我再強調一次"},{"start":5630.42,"end":5631.42,"text":"模具充壓"},{"start":5631.42,"end":5632.42,"text":"金屬加工"},{"start":5632.42,"end":5633.42,"text":"小型引擎"},{"start":5634.27,"end":5636.27,"text":"從川湖到義美到雷虎"},{"start":5636.27,"end":5637.27,"text":"我們都看得到"},{"start":5637.27,"end":5640.27,"text":"傳產轉型為未來的富國神山是有機會的"},{"start":5640.27,"end":5641.27,"text":"但是需要什麼"},{"start":5642.07,"end":5643.07,"text":"需要法令的協助"},{"start":5643.86,"end":5645.86,"text":"那你們這個實驗條例可不可以協助我們未來"},{"start":5645.86,"end":5647.86,"text":"傳產轉型為無人載具產業"},{"start":5648.5,"end":5650.5,"text":"是也可以可以可以嘛"},{"start":5650.5,"end":5652.5,"text":"那所以呢請經濟部研議"},{"start":5652.5,"end":5654.5,"text":"針對科專專案"},{"start":5654.5,"end":5657.5,"text":"科技專案補助的產業跟區域均衡"},{"start":5657.5,"end":5660.5,"text":"要怎麼樣建立你們資源的總帳"},{"start":5660.5,"end":5661.5,"text":"怎麼去勾稽"},{"start":5661.5,"end":5663.5,"text":"可不可以提出一個報告給本席"},{"start":5663.5,"end":5664.5,"text":"可以"},{"start":5664.5,"end":5667.5,"text":"那也請你們將創新實證機制納入到"},{"start":5667.5,"end":5671.5,"text":"我們的無人載具科技創新實驗條例的方案"},{"start":5671.5,"end":5672.5,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":5672.46,"end":5674.46,"text":"這個部分我想我們可以來研議"},{"start":5674.46,"end":5675.46,"text":"你們可以研議"},{"start":5675.46,"end":5677.46,"text":"這個法令是在2018年製作的"},{"start":5677.46,"end":5679.46,"text":"現在已經過了8年了"},{"start":5679.46,"end":5681.46,"text":"可能就補充"},{"start":5681.46,"end":5684.46,"text":"補充後就可以來適用給我們的無人載具產業"},{"start":5684.46,"end":5685.46,"text":"可不可以"},{"start":5685.46,"end":5688.46,"text":"那可不可以一個月也給本席知道一下"},{"start":5688.46,"end":5689.46,"text":"你們這個實驗條例"},{"start":5689.46,"end":5691.46,"text":"你們打算補充哪些"},{"start":5691.46,"end":5692.46,"text":"修改哪些"},{"start":5692.46,"end":5693.46,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":5693.52,"end":5694.52,"text":"好可以"},{"start":5694.52,"end":5695.52,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":5696.15,"end":5698.15,"text":"好謝謝宗教兵委員"},{"start":5698.15,"end":5703.15,"text":"接下來的話我們請這個楊瓊英委員質詢"},{"start":5714.61,"end":5716.61,"text":"謝謝主席楊瓊發言"},{"start":5716.61,"end":5717.61,"text":"我們邀請經濟部"},{"start":5718.11,"end":5720.11,"text":"我們請經濟部核次長"},{"start":5724.94,"end":5725.94,"text":"楊委員好"},{"start":5725.94,"end":5726.94,"text":"市長好"},{"start":5726.94,"end":5729.94,"text":"總統在520的時候提出"},{"start":5729.94,"end":5733.94,"text":"一千億的加速振興中小企業計畫"},{"start":5735.76,"end":5737.76,"text":"中小微企業計畫"},{"start":5737.76,"end":5740.76,"text":"宣示將現在我們中小企業發展條例"},{"start":5740.76,"end":5745.76,"text":"升級為中小微企業升級轉型發展條例"},{"start":5745.76,"end":5748.76,"text":"它的內容大概是擴大這個研發"},{"start":5748.76,"end":5749.76,"text":"轉型設備"},{"start":5749.76,"end":5754.76,"text":"雇傭以及增聘這個增雇"},{"start":5754.76,"end":5757.76,"text":"以及加薪等租稅優惠"},{"start":5757.76,"end":5759.76,"text":"並且在於"},{"start":5759.76,"end":5761.76,"text":"要增加什麼"},{"start":5761.76,"end":5762.76,"text":"補助"},{"start":5762.76,"end":5763.76,"text":"的貸款"},{"start":5764.06,"end":5766.06,"text":"以及信保保證"},{"start":5766.06,"end":5769.06,"text":"跟國發基金的金融投資"},{"start":5769.06,"end":5770.06,"text":"跟融資"},{"start":5770.06,"end":5773.06,"text":"那這個目的就是要建立起"},{"start":5773.06,"end":5776.06,"text":"中小微企業完整的一個支持體系"},{"start":5776.06,"end":5780.06,"text":"那我也看到你們在24號的這個書面報告當中"},{"start":5780.06,"end":5781.06,"text":"你特別提出了"},{"start":5781.06,"end":5785.06,"text":"目前相關的地方特色產業輔導"},{"start":5785.06,"end":5788.06,"text":"你們有接觸到大概是"},{"start":5788.06,"end":5790.06,"text":"一萬一千五百六十六家"},{"start":5790.06,"end":5794.06,"text":"諮詢診斷的大概是兩千兩百三十七家"},{"start":5794.06,"end":5797.06,"text":"深度輔導的是八百七十三家"},{"start":5797.06,"end":5800.06,"text":"國發基金在加強投資"},{"start":5800.06,"end":5802.06,"text":"中小企業的這個"},{"start":5802.06,"end":5803.06,"text":"支持方案"},{"start":5803.06,"end":5807.06,"text":"你們到今年一百一十五年六月底"},{"start":5807.06,"end":5809.06,"text":"你也可以說是累計投資"},{"start":5809.06,"end":5812.06,"text":"一百一十四點八四億元"},{"start":5812.06,"end":5814.06,"text":"帶動民間的投資"},{"start":5814.06,"end":5817.06,"text":"這個金額大概是一百一十一點七三億元"},{"start":5817.06,"end":5819.06,"text":"那你共投資的"},{"start":5819.06,"end":5823.06,"text":"在你的數字上面是339家的中小企業"},{"start":5823.06,"end":5825.06,"text":"但是我們發覺到"},{"start":5825.06,"end":5828.06,"text":"政府投資的工具越來越多"},{"start":5828.06,"end":5830.06,"text":"但是你真正"},{"start":5831.39,"end":5835.39,"text":"衡量企業的應該是轉型成功的指標"},{"start":5835.39,"end":5837.39,"text":"我們並不明確"},{"start":5837.39,"end":5838.39,"text":"我們看到加速"},{"start":5838.39,"end":5839.39,"text":"譬如說"},{"start":5840.35,"end":5842.35,"text":"企業導入的AI生產力"},{"start":5842.35,"end":5844.35,"text":"到底提升了多少"},{"start":5844.35,"end":5846.35,"text":"建靈攤牌加入的時候"},{"start":5846.35,"end":5849.35,"text":"它的成本降低了又有多少"},{"start":5849.35,"end":5852.35,"text":"那你取得了補助跟投資"},{"start":5852.35,"end":5854.35,"text":"這個營收"},{"start":5856.16,"end":5858.16,"text":"營收跟它的出口"},{"start":5858.16,"end":5859.16,"text":"它的量體"},{"start":5859.16,"end":5861.16,"text":"到底是不是有增加"},{"start":5861.16,"end":5864.16,"text":"所以在每一次的報告當中"},{"start":5864.16,"end":5865.16,"text":"本席詳細的看"},{"start":5865.16,"end":5866.16,"text":"都是觸及到"},{"start":5866.16,"end":5869.16,"text":"我到底touch到多少加速"},{"start":5869.16,"end":5871.16,"text":"我辦了多少場次"},{"start":5871.16,"end":5873.16,"text":"大概都是如此"},{"start":5873.16,"end":5874.16,"text":"所以本席要請教"},{"start":5874.16,"end":5876.16,"text":"也就是你經濟部"},{"start":5876.16,"end":5877.16,"text":"是不是會設立"},{"start":5877.16,"end":5881.16,"text":"一套具體的轉型成效追蹤機制"},{"start":5881.16,"end":5883.16,"text":"你明確的去掌控"},{"start":5883.16,"end":5884.16,"text":"企業呢"},{"start":5884.16,"end":5887.16,"text":"接受了政策的一個資源之後"},{"start":5887.16,"end":5888.16,"text":"它在營收"},{"start":5888.16,"end":5889.16,"tex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},{"start":6058.78,"end":6060.78,"text":"因為國科會在113年推動了"},{"start":6060.78,"end":6063.78,"text":"無人機關鍵的技術前瞻研發計畫"},{"start":6063.78,"end":6066.78,"text":"那投資了將近3.7億的這個預算"},{"start":6066.78,"end":6069.78,"text":"那你整合了清大台大城大"},{"start":6069.78,"end":6070.78,"text":"以及輔偉科大"},{"start":6070.78,"end":6072.78,"text":"以及我們的國營院"},{"start":6072.78,"end":6074.78,"text":"這些的研究機構"},{"start":6074.78,"end":6077.78,"text":"那從飛控通訊AI感知"},{"start":6077.78,"end":6080.78,"text":"群飛3D的建圖到反制技術"},{"start":6080.78,"end":6083.78,"text":"它都進行到這個科學研究"},{"start":6083.78,"end":6087.78,"text":"那你也設定了具體的量化指標"},{"start":6087.78,"end":6088.78,"text":"這個非常好"},{"start":6088.78,"end":6090.78,"text":"一定要有量化指標"},{"start":6090.78,"end":6092.78,"text":"那你預計要在明年116年的"},{"start":6092.78,"end":6094.78,"text":"完成驗收是不是"},{"start":6097.14,"end":6098.14,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":6098.14,"end":6101.14,"text":"因為這個題目不是我們今天"},{"start":6101.14,"end":6104.14,"text":"我沒有負責這個部分"},{"start":6104.14,"end":6106.14,"text":"你是代表國科會"},{"start":6106.14,"end":6108.14,"text":"沒關係你不清楚我告訴你"},{"start":6108.14,"end":6110.14,"text":"就是114年要完成驗收"},{"start":6110.14,"end":6114.14,"text":"那重點在於國家投入了這一些的資源"},{"start":6114.14,"end":6117.14,"text":"我們也做了關鍵的技術"},{"start":6117.14,"end":6118.14,"text":"那不能讓"},{"start":6119.34,"end":6121.34,"text":"驗收完成任務"},{"start":6121.34,"end":6122.34,"text":"經濟部站在旁邊"},{"start":6122.34,"end":6123.34,"text":"所以經濟部"},{"start":6124.42,"end":6125.42,"text":"我個人認為"},{"start":6125.42,"end":6127.42,"text":"國家是一個合作的機制"},{"start":6127.42,"end":6130.42,"text":"稅金都是人民的納稅錢"},{"start":6130.42,"end":6133.42,"text":"所以你真正的政策成果"},{"start":6133.42,"end":6134.42,"text":"才是最重要的"},{"start":6134.42,"end":6136.42,"text":"也就是說你最後"},{"start":6136.42,"end":6140.42,"text":"是不是能夠被國內的企業來承接"},{"start":6140.42,"end":6142.42,"text":"最後形成產品"},{"start":6142.42,"end":6143.42,"text":"跟有"},{"start":6145.2,"end":6147.2,"text":"這個有能力的一個量產出來"},{"start":6147.2,"end":6148.2,"text":"這是非常重要"},{"start":6148.2,"end":6150.2,"text":"所以我要請教經濟部"},{"start":6150.2,"end":6154.2,"text":"我們台中已經有航太精密機械"},{"start":6154.2,"end":6156.2,"text":"跟無人機產業的基礎"},{"start":6156.2,"end":6157.2,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6157.2,"end":6158.2,"text":"台中非常的堅固"},{"start":6158.2,"end":6160.2,"text":"中部地區非常的堅固"},{"start":6160.2,"end":6162.2,"text":"那你如果國科會他負責研發出來"},{"start":6162.2,"end":6165.2,"text":"那經濟部你有沒有前瞻的"},{"start":6165.48,"end":6166.48,"text":"去布局"},{"start":6166.48,"end":6169.48,"text":"到底國科會研發出來的"},{"start":6170.95,"end":6173.95,"text":"花了3.6億多將近3.7億"},{"start":6173.95,"end":6174.95,"text":"他研發出來"},{"start":6174.95,"end":6176.95,"text":"你準備要怎麼去承接"},{"start":6176.95,"end":6178.95,"text":"有哪些的企業"},{"start":6178.95,"end":6179.95,"text":"他可以來承接"},{"start":6179.95,"end":6180.95,"text":"可以來量產"},{"start":6180.95,"end":6183.95,"text":"這才是我們花人民納稅錢"},{"start":6183.95,"end":6188.95,"text":"最重要的從研發到產品的一個產出"},{"start":6188.95,"end":6191.95,"text":"也幫助我們所有的企業界"},{"start":6191.95,"end":6193.95,"text":"那你憑你的點頭"},{"start":6193.95,"end":6194.95,"text":"我要說"},{"start":6194.95,"end":6196.95,"text":"因為國家花錢做研究"},{"start":6196.95,"end":6198.95,"text":"那不能只有讓我們的企業"},{"start":6198.95,"end":6200.95,"text":"還是自己去摸索"},{"start":6200.95,"end":6202.95,"text":"所以你本身要請教"},{"start":6202.95,"end":6203.95,"text":"國科會這樣的計畫照"},{"start":6203.95,"end":6206.95,"text":"明年116年他要完成驗收"},{"start":6206.95,"end":6209.95,"text":"那經濟部現在是115年8月底了"},{"start":6209.95,"end":6211.95,"text":"你經濟部是不是"},{"start":6211.95,"end":6214.95,"text":"開始盤點相關"},{"start":6214.95,"end":6216.95,"text":"可以交給哪一些企業"},{"start":6216.95,"end":6217.95,"text":"在哪一些場域"},{"start":6217.95,"end":6219.95,"text":"他可以去驗證"},{"start":6219.95,"end":6221.95,"text":"那所以我特別要說了"},{"start":6221.95,"end":6224.95,"text":"你必須要設定成果的移轉"},{"start":6224.95,"end":6227.95,"text":"跟量產的具體時程"},{"start":6228.07,"end":6230.07,"text":"尤其是我們台中的產業鏈"},{"start":6230.07,"end":6231.07,"text":"請教普長"},{"start":6231.07,"end":6234.07,"text":"台中的產業鏈在這一塊"},{"start":6234.07,"end":6237.07,"text":"我們到底要扮演什麼樣的角色"},{"start":6237.07,"end":6238.07,"text":"因為我不斷的"},{"start":6238.07,"end":6241.07,"text":"在任何的會議裡頭也好"},{"start":6241.07,"end":6242.07,"text":"我一直強調"},{"start":6242.07,"end":6245.07,"text":"政府必須做企業的一個靠山"},{"start":6246.24,"end":6248.24,"text":"由政府的能力"},{"start":6248.24,"end":6249.24,"text":"比如說國科會"},{"start":6249.24,"end":6252.24,"text":"他現在116年要提出了這個報告"},{"start":6252.24,"end":6253.24,"text":"這個研發成果"},{"start":6253.24,"end":6255.24,"text":"那我們接下來"},{"start":6255.37,"end":6256.37,"text":"台中的產業"},{"start":6256.37,"end":6258.37,"text":"他扮演什麼樣的角色"},{"start":6258.77,"end":6259.77,"text":"好 跟我們報告"},{"start":6259.77,"end":6261.77,"text":"國科會其實他的角色"},{"start":6261.77,"end":6263.77,"text":"當然就是研發"},{"start":6263.77,"end":6266.77,"text":"那研發成果要做計轉"},{"start":6266.77,"end":6267.77,"text":"這個計轉的部分"},{"start":6267.77,"end":6269.77,"text":"我想就是經濟部這邊"},{"start":6269.77,"end":6271.77,"text":"要有企業要能夠來承接"},{"start":6271.77,"end":6272.77,"text":"非常好"},{"start":6272.77,"end":6273.77,"text":"所以我們經濟部這邊"},{"start":6273.77,"end":6275.77,"text":"其實我們的責任就是要把"},{"start":6276.47,"end":6277.47,"text":"開始盤點了嗎"},{"start":6277.47,"end":6278.47,"text":"開始盤點"},{"start":6278.47,"end":6279.47,"text":"已經盤點了"},{"start":6279.47,"end":6280.47,"text":"我們無人家不問"},{"start":6280.47,"end":6281.47,"text":"其實我們已經盤點了"},{"start":6281.47,"end":6282.47,"text":"非常感謝"},{"start":6282.47,"end":6283.47,"text":"有盤點了請教"},{"start":6283.47,"end":6286.47,"text":"台中的產業鏈扮演什麼角色"},{"start":6286.47,"end":6288.47,"text":"其實台中產業鏈非常完整"},{"start":6288.47,"end":6292.47,"text":"從整機模組到系統到零組件"},{"start":6292.47,"end":6293.47,"text":"都一應俱全"},{"start":6293.47,"end":6295.47,"text":"所以這也是我們台中的特色"},{"start":6295.47,"end":6299.47,"text":"所以承接上絕對這些技術的研發"},{"start":6299.47,"end":6302.47,"text":"台中的廠商絕對有能力來承接"},{"start":6302.47,"end":6304.47,"text":"尤其我們盤點出來的"},{"start":6304.47,"end":6306.47,"text":"三晶二卵的缺口"},{"start":6306.47,"end":6307.47,"text":"技術缺口"},{"start":6307.47,"end":6308.47,"text":"也是我們跟國科會"},{"start":6308.47,"end":6309.47,"text":"一起在合作的部分"},{"start":6309.47,"end":6311.47,"text":"透過學校的研發能量"},{"start":6311.47,"end":6313.47,"text":"能夠把這些技術"},{"start":6313.47,"end":6316.47,"text":"能夠把它轉到產業界"},{"start":6316.47,"end":6318.47,"text":"我想可以讓我們國內的"},{"start":6318.47,"end":6321.47,"text":"無人機產業生態性能夠更加壯大"},{"start":6321.47,"end":6322.47,"text":"謝謝市長你的回答"},{"start":6322.47,"end":6324.47,"text":"也就是台中是要扮演"},{"start":6324.47,"end":6328.47,"text":"非常關鍵的產業鏈的一個角色"},{"start":6328.47,"end":6330.47,"text":"所以我要告訴你們"},{"start":6330.47,"end":6332.47,"text":"我們台中在等你"},{"start":6332.47,"end":6333.47,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6333.47,"end":6335.47,"text":"接下來我要請國發會"},{"start":6335.47,"end":6336.47,"text":"跟經濟部"},{"start":6337.86,"end":6339.86,"text":"國發會我們在近期你"},{"start":6339.86,"end":6342.86,"text":"付了日本交流地方創生"},{"start":6342.86,"end":6344.86,"text":"你提出了以往的政策"},{"start":6344.86,"end":6346.86,"text":"從2019年開始"},{"start":6346.86,"end":6349.86,"text":"我們的政策是說要留住人才"},{"start":6349.86,"end":6352.86,"text":"到現在是轉向留下專業"},{"start":6352.86,"end":6355.86,"text":"本席認為你這個轉向"},{"start":6355.86,"end":6356.86,"text":"我給你讚許"},{"start":6356.86,"end":6359.86,"text":"但也暴露出以往的方向是不對的"},{"start":6359.86,"end":6361.86,"text":"又精進的一個空間"},{"start":6361.86,"end":6363.86,"text":"所以在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":6363.86,"end":6366.86,"text":"你希望透過遠距協助人才媒合"},{"start":6366.86,"end":6369.86,"text":"以及跨域的合作讓人才"},{"start":6369.86,"end":6371.86,"text":"即使他不移居地方"},{"start":6371.86,"end":6374.86,"text":"但是能夠參與地方的一個參與跟發展"},{"start":6374.86,"end":6376.86,"text":"這是從2019年"},{"start":6376.86,"end":6380.86,"text":"我們的地方創生元年開始到現在"},{"start":6380.86,"end":6383.86,"text":"你政府投入了54.61億"},{"start":6383.86,"end":6385.86,"text":"但是你一直被人家質疑"},{"start":6385.86,"end":6389.86,"text":"也就是說團隊高度的去依賴政府的補助"},{"start":6389.86,"end":6391.86,"text":"補助一旦一停"},{"start":6391.86,"end":6392.86,"text":"那他會活不下去"},{"start":6392.86,"end":6393.86,"text":"在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":6393.86,"end":6396.86,"text":"不是我們所樂意看到的"},{"start":6396.86,"end":6400.86,"text":"所以我們現在覺得到目前為止"},{"start":6400.86,"end":6403.86,"text":"你是不是都沒有建立起"},{"start":6403.86,"end":6406.86,"text":"自主造學的一個能力"},{"start":6406.86,"end":6407.86,"text":"在地方的產業"},{"start":6407.86,"end":6410.86,"text":"所以我個人認為政府投下的資源"},{"start":6410.86,"end":6413.86,"text":"那你現在又提出新的一個"},{"start":6413.86,"end":6415.86,"text":"地方創生的一個模式"},{"start":6415.86,"end":6416.86,"text":"不能夠"},{"start":6418.61,"end":6422.61,"text":"只是不斷的更換你的政策名稱"},{"start":6422.61,"end":6424.61,"text":"跟人才的一個論述"},{"start":6424.61,"end":6427.61,"text":"你應該要正面的去檢驗"},{"start":6427.61,"end":6430.61,"text":"過去你投入的這些資源"},{"start":6430.61,"end":6432.61,"text":"究竟留下了什麼樣的成果"},{"start":6433.57,"end":6437.57,"text":"我們不希望是淪為補助不斷"},{"start":6437.57,"end":6440.57,"text":"創生不成"},{"start":6440.57,"end":6442.57,"text":"這是我們不願意樂見的"},{"start":6442.57,"end":6445.57,"text":"所以我要請教副主委您"},{"start":6445.57,"end":6448.57,"text":"國防會你既然你改變了方向"},{"start":6448.57,"end":6451.57,"text":"你推動了新的地方創生模式"},{"start":6451.57,"end":6453.57,"text":"那你是不是應該要先交代"},{"start":6453.57,"end":6456.57,"text":"以往你所投入的資源"},{"start":6456.57,"end":6457.57,"text":"你到底"},{"start":6457.86,"end":6460.86,"text":"能夠培養出多少脫離政府補助"},{"start":6460.86,"end":6463.86,"text":"然後持續自主經營的團隊"},{"start":6466.2,"end":6467.2,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":6467.2,"end":6470.2,"text":"的確我們協助地方創生"},{"start":6470.2,"end":6473.2,"text":"希望他們能夠有自己的能量"},{"start":6473.2,"end":6475.2,"text":"我想補助只是一剛開始"},{"start":6475.2,"end":6477.2,"text":"來協助他們建立這樣的能量"},{"start":6477.2,"end":6479.2,"text":"那從過去我們推動的成效來看"},{"start":6479.2,"end":6481.2,"text":"其實在促進就業方面"},{"start":6481.2,"end":6483.2,"text":"還有創造產值方面"},{"start":6483.2,"end":6484.2,"text":"已經有相當的成果"},{"start":6484.2,"end":6488.2,"text":"那當然我們希望有更精進的模式"},{"start":6488.2,"end":6489.2,"text":"所以就如委員剛剛提到的"},{"start":6489.2,"end":6491.2,"text":"我們是希望這些新創的"},{"start":6491.2,"end":6495.2,"text":"彼此間能夠共創一個"},{"start":6495.2,"end":6497.2,"text":"共好的一個生態圈"},{"start":6497.2,"end":6498.2,"text":"好你一個回答"},{"start":6498.2,"end":6501.2,"text":"共好共創補助只是剛開始"},{"start":6501.2,"end":6504.2,"text":"所以第一個本席要求兩件事情"},{"start":6504.2,"end":6507.2,"text":"第一個你把你所投入的資源"},{"start":6507.2,"end":6510.2,"text":"那麼認為他可以自主的樣態"},{"start":6510.2,"end":6512.2,"text":"那你順便就要給本席"},{"start":6512.2,"end":6514.2,"text":"第一個第二個我要請教"},{"start":6514.2,"end":6517.2,"text":"團隊自主的一個營運"},{"start":6517.2,"end":6520.2,"text":"是不是列為未來地方創生"},{"start":6520.2,"end":6523.2,"text":"KPI非常重要的一個具體"},{"start":6524.34,"end":6526.34,"text":"是我想這個方向我們一定都是"},{"start":6526.34,"end":6528.34,"text":"納入這個具體的KPI"},{"start":6528.34,"end":6530.34,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":6530.34,"end":6531.34,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":6532.07,"end":6534.07,"text":"好謝謝楊丞琳委員"},{"start":6534.87,"end":6537.87,"text":"接下來的話我們請李玉琳委員質詢"},{"start":6547.67,"end":6549.67,"text":"謝謝主席請何次長"},{"start":6549.67,"end":6551.67,"text":"請經濟部何次長"},{"start":6556.12,"end":6557.12,"text":"委員好"},{"start":6557.12,"end":6560.12,"text":"次長我們台灣的中小企業"},{"start":6560.12,"end":6562.12,"text":"向來都是以高度的韌性"},{"start":6562.12,"end":6564.12,"text":"跟創新的能量來支持"},{"start":6564.12,"end":6568.12,"text":"我國的經濟發展跟社會的安定"},{"start":6568.12,"end":6572.12,"text":"所以雖然說他沒有大企業的光環"},{"start":6572.12,"end":6574.12,"text":"但他憑藉著他們今年累業的"},{"start":6574.12,"end":6576.12,"text":"這個專業技術可以引領著"},{"start":6576.12,"end":6578.12,"text":"我們產業發展也是個很多的"},{"start":6578.12,"end":6580.12,"text":"這個隱形冠軍對不對"},{"start":6580.12,"end":6584.12,"text":"所以在我們根據2025年的"},{"start":6584.12,"end":6586.12,"text":"企業的白皮書裡面的報告"},{"start":6586.12,"end":6590.12,"text":"有說到2024年我們全台灣的中小企業"},{"start":6590.12,"end":6594.12,"text":"已經有171.5萬家"},{"start":6594.12,"end":6598.12,"text":"他的就業人口有919.4萬"},{"start":6598.12,"end":6600.12,"text":"占了我們全國就業人數的八成"},{"start":6600.12,"end":6602.12,"text":"都在中小企業"},{"start":6602.12,"end":6604.12,"text":"而且他的營業額31兆"},{"start":6604.12,"end":6608.12,"text":"他也占我們全國這個企業的"},{"start":6608.12,"end":6609.12,"text":"營業收入的五成"},{"start":6609.12,"end":6611.12,"text":"所以我們中小企業"},{"start":6611.12,"end":6613.12,"text":"他並不是我們台灣經濟的配角"},{"start":6613.12,"end":6615.12,"text":"他們也是最重要穩定"},{"start":6615.12,"end":6618.12,"text":"我們就業市場的重要的基石對不對"},{"start":6618.12,"end":6619.12,"text":"對"},{"start":6619.12,"end":6622.12,"text":"那所以說現在這個AI產業"},{"start":6622.12,"end":6624.12,"text":"跟我們的半導體產業"},{"start":6624.12,"end":6628.12,"text":"大部分我們政府所制定的政策上"},{"start":6628.12,"end":6632.12,"text":"都是偏向於比較亮眼的明星的企業產業"},{"start":6632.12,"end":6634.12,"text":"所以對於我們中小企業"},{"start":6634.12,"end":6638.12,"text":"比較沒有這方面的政策是不是"},{"start":6638.12,"end":6640.12,"text":"應該跟委員這樣報告"},{"start":6640.12,"end":6644.12,"text":"就是說其實過去因為全球AI的整個浪潮"},{"start":6644.12,"end":6647.12,"text":"所以造就了台灣整個高科技產業"},{"start":6647.12,"end":6651.12,"text":"在全球扮演很重要的一個地位"},{"start":6651.12,"end":6655.12,"text":"那相對的我們國內許多這些傳統產業"},{"start":6655.12,"end":6660.12,"text":"跟中小微企業可能就受到高科技產業"},{"start":6660.12,"end":6662.12,"text":"不管是在人才或是在"},{"start":6662.12,"end":6664.12,"text":"但是國家政策可以這樣子偏頗嗎"},{"start":6664.12,"end":6666.12,"text":"是同樣都重要嗎"},{"start":6666.12,"end":6669.12,"text":"對所以總統就看到了這樣的一個問題"},{"start":6669.12,"end":6673.12,"text":"就提出來就是未來8年就是要提出1000億"},{"start":6673.12,"end":6674.12,"text":"再投入1000億"},{"start":6674.12,"end":6676.12,"text":"要投入這樣的預算資源"},{"start":6676.12,"end":6679.12,"text":"來協助傳產跟中小微企業的一個發展"},{"start":6679.12,"end":6681.12,"text":"那當然也就是所謂就是說"},{"start":6681.12,"end":6683.12,"text":"高科技產業發展的紅利"},{"start":6683.12,"end":6686.12,"text":"要能夠外溢到這些傳產跟中小微企業"},{"start":6686.12,"end":6689.12,"text":"所以我們希望能夠把這些傳產跟中小微企業"},{"start":6689.12,"end":6693.12,"text":"只能協助到它能夠跨越到這個半導體"},{"start":6693.12,"end":6696.12,"text":"半導體到我們的這些政府這個"},{"start":6696.12,"end":6699.12,"text":"市長在2024年的時候"},{"start":6699.12,"end":6701.12,"text":"我們就立法通過了"},{"start":6701.12,"end":6703.12,"text":"中小企業的發展條例對不對"},{"start":6703.12,"end":6705.12,"text":"裡面有特別講到"},{"start":6705.12,"end":6709.12,"text":"中小企業可以推動加薪減稅的措施"},{"start":6709.12,"end":6711.12,"text":"那這加薪減稅的措施裡面"},{"start":6711.12,"end":6714.12,"text":"我們看到都集合在這個六都裡面"},{"start":6714.12,"end":6716.12,"text":"那為什麼就集合在六都裡面"},{"start":6716.12,"end":6719.12,"text":"那其他的地方都沒有來申請嗎"},{"start":6719.12,"end":6720.12,"text":"它就比較少"},{"start":6720.12,"end":6722.12,"text":"這有事我們宣傳不列"},{"start":6722.12,"end":6725.12,"text":"是說有什麼誘因不能引起他們來申請"},{"start":6725.12,"end":6728.12,"text":"這有你們有沒有去分析這個原因在哪裡"},{"start":6728.12,"end":6731.12,"text":"跟我們報告其實這個加薪減稅"},{"start":6731.12,"end":6735.12,"text":"當然就是企業主他也要衡量他"},{"start":6735.12,"end":6741.12,"text":"未來整個對員工的加薪之後"},{"start":6741.12,"end":6744.12,"text":"他整個企業營運成本的一個增加的部分"},{"start":6744.12,"end":6747.12,"text":"所以我想這個應該跟未來"},{"start":6747.12,"end":6749.12,"text":"我們在訂定整個中小微"},{"start":6749.12,"end":6752.12,"text":"企業轉型升級的這個條例裡面"},{"start":6752.12,"end":6756.12,"text":"我們怎麼樣能夠把這個減稅的這個門檻"},{"start":6756.12,"end":6758.12,"text":"能夠再把它放寬"},{"start":6758.12,"end":6760.12,"text":"所以你們也繼續分析吧"},{"start":6760.12,"end":6763.12,"text":"我們減稅的標準已經提高到100%"},{"start":6763.12,"end":6767.12,"text":"本來是135%的現在是175%了"},{"start":6767.12,"end":6769.12,"text":"那個應該其實也很高了"},{"start":6769.12,"end":6771.12,"text":"可以減輕他們的營利稅"},{"start":6771.12,"end":6773.12,"text":"所以說在這方面的話"},{"start":6773.12,"end":6774.12,"text":"你剛剛有提到了"},{"start":6774.12,"end":6778.12,"text":"現在本來是中小企業的發展條例"},{"start":6778.12,"end":6781.12,"text":"那現在未來會在這個中小微企業"},{"start":6781.12,"end":6784.12,"text":"這個升級的發展條例裡面"},{"start":6784.12,"end":6788.12,"text":"那你這兩個跟這中小企業的發展條例裡面"},{"start":6788.12,"end":6789.12,"text":"有什麼不一樣"},{"start":6789.12,"end":6790.12,"text":"有什麼差別呢"},{"start":6790.12,"end":6794.12,"text":"跟我們報告就是說過去可能我們在這個條例裡面"},{"start":6794.12,"end":6797.12,"text":"已經有的這些租稅優惠"},{"start":6797.12,"end":6799.12,"text":"以及這些獎補助的項目"},{"start":6799.12,"end":6802.12,"text":"我們會再把它擴大會把它放寬"},{"start":6802.12,"end":6805.12,"text":"而且我們會把一些中小微企業"},{"start":6805.12,"end":6807.12,"text":"特別是商圈市場"},{"start":6807.12,"end":6810.12,"text":"業市這些小微企業的部分"},{"start":6810.12,"end":6811.12,"text":"也把它納到這個"},{"start":6811.12,"end":6812.12,"text":"小商家都把它列入"},{"start":6812.12,"end":6814.12,"text":"不一定是公司嘛"},{"start":6814.12,"end":6817.12,"text":"中小企業發展條例裡面是需要公司才可以"},{"start":6817.12,"end":6819.12,"text":"現在微企業的話"},{"start":6819.12,"end":6822.12,"text":"就可以把這些市場或者是小店家"},{"start":6822.12,"end":6824.12,"text":"都把它納入裡面"},{"start":6824.12,"end":6829.12,"text":"所以你會加強的部分是屬於金融還是租稅方面"},{"start":6829.12,"end":6833.12,"text":"還是說設備的太舊關係"},{"start":6833.12,"end":6836.12,"text":"所以跟這個中小企業發展沒有什麼差別"},{"start":6836.12,"end":6839.12,"text":"就是過去可能門檻比較高一點"},{"start":6839.12,"end":6842.12,"text":"就是說我們比方說租稅"},{"start":6842.12,"end":6845.12,"text":"申請租稅優惠的話"},{"start":6845.12,"end":6850.12,"text":"那他可能比方說要購買多少以上的設備才可以"},{"start":6850.12,"end":6853.12,"text":"那我們現在就會把門檻降低"},{"start":6853.12,"end":6856.12,"text":"那另外就是說這個僱用員工的話"},{"start":6856.12,"end":6860.12,"text":"的年齡的部分我們也可以把它放寬"},{"start":6860.12,"end":6865.12,"text":"那加薪的的抵減率也許我們也可以再把它做放寬"},{"start":6865.12,"end":6869.12,"text":"所以跟現有的這個中小企業發展條例來講"},{"start":6869.12,"end":6872.12,"text":"我們未來的那個轉型升級條例的部分"},{"start":6872.12,"end":6879.12,"text":"我們會鬆綁非常多的這些這個租稅優惠的這些條件"},{"start":6879.12,"end":6882.12,"text":"而且總統也承諾要加碼"},{"start":6882.12,"end":6885.12,"text":"在研發補助在信用保證"},{"start":6885.12,"end":6890.12,"text":"在這個市場唾銷這方面的這些經費"},{"start":6890.12,"end":6894.12,"text":"尤其是在商圈、夜市還有這些市場"},{"start":6894.12,"end":6897.12,"text":"這些這個輔導對象上面"},{"start":6897.12,"end":6899.12,"text":"我們從硬體到軟體的部分"},{"start":6899.12,"end":6901.12,"text":"我們都有整塊經費來編列"},{"start":6901.12,"end":6904.12,"text":"所有的政策方面一定要調整"},{"start":6904.12,"end":6906.12,"text":"我們是全面檢討"},{"start":6906.12,"end":6908.12,"text":"那你說大概九月份會送出來是嗎"},{"start":6908.12,"end":6909.12,"text":"對應該"},{"start":6909.12,"end":6912.12,"text":"中進部就要做出來送到立法院了"},{"start":6912.12,"end":6913.12,"text":"是我們送到立法院來"},{"start":6913.12,"end":6914.12,"text":"九月份就要送出來"},{"start":6914.12,"end":6916.12,"text":"好盡快送出來"},{"start":6916.12,"end":6920.12,"text":"那至於剛剛特別有提到說AI產業跟這個半導體的問題"},{"start":6920.12,"end":6923.12,"text":"那中小企業也需要您多多支持"},{"start":6923.12,"end":6925.12,"text":"在中小企業方面的話"},{"start":6925.12,"end":6929.12,"text":"我們看到我們政府的政策裡面都是著重在製造業"},{"start":6929.12,"end":6931.12,"text":"你怎麼樣引領怎麼樣導入"},{"start":6931.12,"end":6936.12,"text":"你們都有一套的公司跟辦法程序上可以教導他們"},{"start":6936.12,"end":6938.12,"text":"但是服務業為什麼都沒有"},{"start":6938.12,"end":6942.12,"text":"跟委員報告其實服務業我們也有AI的這個指引"},{"start":6942.12,"end":6945.12,"text":"那過去因為服務業加速多"},{"start":6945.12,"end":6948.12,"text":"加速多相較於製造業來講"},{"start":6948.12,"end":6952.12,"text":"我們的輔導就是可能跟製造業的方法可能就要不一樣"},{"start":6952.12,"end":6955.12,"text":"因為服務業我們現在是著眼於就是說"},{"start":6955.12,"end":6962.12,"text":"比方說像剛提到的商圈或是說一些這個市場"},{"start":6962.12,"end":6964.12,"text":"這些都是比較群聚型的"},{"start":6964.12,"end":6967.12,"text":"那也許未來我們可能就是針對這些對象"},{"start":6967.12,"end":6968.12,"text":"我們可能就要"},{"start":6968.12,"end":6972.12,"text":"我們可能就要設計一下這個制度"},{"start":6972.12,"end":6975.12,"text":"來量身訂做為這些服務業"},{"start":6975.12,"end":6977.12,"text":"服務業還是很必要性的"},{"start":6977.12,"end":6979.12,"text":"雖然製造業說你這個整體上的話"},{"start":6979.12,"end":6981.12,"text":"它有個方向比較主導"},{"start":6981.12,"end":6983.12,"text":"但是服務業它有更加需要"},{"start":6983.12,"end":6985.12,"text":"因為整個都現在是半導體產業"},{"start":6985.12,"end":6988.12,"text":"所以我們希望政府要著重"},{"start":6988.12,"end":6992.12,"text":"在這個服務業的這個我們用專案的方式來制定"},{"start":6992.12,"end":6994.12,"text":"這個專案方式的話你們會研究"},{"start":6994.12,"end":6997.12,"text":"我們商業署這邊署長這邊"},{"start":6997.12,"end":7000.12,"text":"你們有沒有研究怎麼樣什麼時候可以推出來"},{"start":7000.12,"end":7002.12,"text":"對他們的引導"},{"start":7002.12,"end":7004.12,"text":"其實我們現在就已經有在做"},{"start":7004.12,"end":7007.12,"text":"商業服務業的人才的這個"},{"start":7007.12,"end":7009.12,"text":"指引人才的這個"},{"start":7008.96,"end":7010.96,"text":"其實我們指引已經有了"},{"start":7010.96,"end":7012.96,"text":"服務業的這個相關的指引都有"},{"start":7012.96,"end":7014.96,"text":"比如是哪方面的服務業"},{"start":7014.96,"end":7016.96,"text":"不要說像這個零售餐飲"},{"start":7016.96,"end":7018.96,"text":"然後另外就是物流"},{"start":7018.96,"end":7022.96,"text":"這方面的這些這個服務業的部分"},{"start":7022.96,"end":7024.96,"text":"不要局限在這個裡面"},{"start":7024.96,"end":7026.96,"text":"服務業很多種"},{"start":7026.96,"end":7028.96,"text":"因為它的就業人口非常多"},{"start":7028.96,"end":7030.96,"text":"如果在物流跟餐飲的話還是不夠的"},{"start":7030.96,"end":7033.96,"text":"我希望更有專業那個專案方式"},{"start":7033.96,"end":7036.96,"text":"針對這個服務業來制定一些標準"},{"start":7036.96,"end":7040.96,"text":"讓他們趕快的能夠提升他們針對AI這個發展"},{"start":7040.96,"end":7042.96,"text":"能夠適用在他們的產業上"},{"start":7042.96,"end":7044.96,"text":"可以提升他們"},{"start":7044.96,"end":7047.96,"text":"這樣子的話他們也許可以有加薪的空間"},{"start":7047.96,"end":7048.96,"text":"對不對"},{"start":7048.96,"end":7050.96,"text":"有業績就有加薪"},{"start":7050.96,"end":7052.96,"text":"這方面的話請盡快制定專案好不好"},{"start":7052.96,"end":7054.96,"text":"好謝謝委員提醒謝謝"},{"start":7057.58,"end":7059.58,"text":"好謝謝林運委員"},{"start":7060.19,"end":7063.19,"text":"接下來我們請政天才委員諮詢"},{"start":7075.97,"end":7078.97,"text":"主席有請經濟部次長"},{"start":7078.97,"end":7080.97,"text":"好請經濟部和次長"},{"start":7084.78,"end":7085.78,"text":"政委員好"},{"start":7086.16,"end":7087.16,"text":"次長好"},{"start":7087.56,"end":7088.56,"text":"這個"},{"start":7088.86,"end":7089.86,"text":"我們"},{"start":7090.87,"end":7092.87,"text":"現在的國際情"},{"start":7092.87,"end":7094.87,"text":"經貿情勢"},{"start":7094.87,"end":7096.87,"text":"以及全球供應鏈的重組"},{"start":7096.87,"end":7099.87,"text":"數位科技應用人工智慧發展"},{"start":7099.87,"end":7101.87,"text":"資通安全風險"},{"start":7101.87,"end":7103.87,"text":"淨零碳排歧視"},{"start":7103.87,"end":7106.87,"text":"少子女化及高齡化等議題"},{"start":7107.65,"end":7110.65,"text":"都是對中小企業經營環境造成"},{"start":7110.65,"end":7112.65,"text":"重大的影響"},{"start":7113.43,"end":7117.43,"text":"尤其是微型企業的資源有限"},{"start":7117.43,"end":7120.43,"text":"但是它是它是更是一個"},{"start":7120.43,"end":7122.43,"text":"需要特別特別的"},{"start":7122.43,"end":7124.43,"text":"來去加強的部分"},{"start":7125.01,"end":7127.01,"text":"我們以現在的台灣"},{"start":7129.53,"end":7130.53,"text":"中小企業"},{"start":7131.32,"end":7133.32,"text":"或是微信切"},{"start":7133.46,"end":7135.46,"text":"或是其他的企業"},{"start":7136.87,"end":7138.87,"text":"這邊寫的列舉的這幾個"},{"start":7139.96,"end":7140.96,"text":"你認為現在"},{"start":7140.96,"end":7141.96,"text":"政府"},{"start":7142.64,"end":7144.64,"text":"有積極在推動"},{"start":7144.59,"end":7145.59,"text":"了"},{"start":7146,"end":7147,"text":"比較能夠達成的"},{"start":7148.26,"end":7149.26,"text":"啊"},{"start":7150.04,"end":7152.04,"text":"比較能達成的是哪一個部"},{"start":7152.74,"end":7154.74,"text":"我會說比較難"},{"start":7154.74,"end":7155.74,"text":"比較容易達成"},{"start":7155.74,"end":7157.74,"text":"這邊寫的文字"},{"start":7157.74,"end":7160.74,"text":"是很難就經濟部來講啊"},{"start":7160.74,"end":7161.74,"text":"你的"},{"start":7161.98,"end":7164.98,"text":"你你無法無法去處理的部分"},{"start":7166.25,"end":7169.25,"text":"無法就是可能少子女化"},{"start":7169.25,"end":7170.25,"text":"對完全正確"},{"start":7170.25,"end":7172.25,"text":"這個部分可能我們經濟部"},{"start":7172.25,"end":7173.25,"text":"這是完全正確"},{"start":7174.91,"end":7175.91,"text":"重中之重啊"},{"start":7175.91,"end":7177.91,"text":"我們現在台灣的問題"},{"start":7178.4,"end":7179.4,"text":"少子女化"},{"start":7180.38,"end":7182.38,"text":"及高齡化等議題"},{"start":7183.57,"end":7184.57,"text":"所以是個部分"},{"start":7185.73,"end":7186.73,"text":"這個經濟部啊"},{"start":7187.8,"end":7190.8,"text":"你們要透過你們的相關的資料"},{"start":7191.97,"end":7193.97,"text":"啊"},{"start":7193.52,"end":7194.52,"text":"現在"},{"start":7195.38,"end":7197.38,"text":"我們在中小企業"},{"start":7198.82,"end":7200.82,"text":"這個我們的勞工啊"},{"start":7201.93,"end":7202.93,"text":"的年齡"},{"start":7203.45,"end":7204.45,"text":"啊"},{"start":7204.45,"end":7205.45,"text":"的比例"},{"start":7205.37,"end":7208.37,"text":"這個勞工的這些年齡階層"},{"start":7210.04,"end":7211.04,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":7211.04,"end":7212.04,"text":"我們現在"},{"start":7213.2,"end":7214.2,"text":"外老"},{"start":7214.18,"end":7215.18,"text":"外子老公"},{"start":7215.61,"end":7216.61,"text":"在中小企業"},{"start":7217.89,"end":7218.89,"text":"的比例"},{"start":7219.56,"end":7220.56,"text":"人數比例"},{"start":7223.81,"end":7225.81,"text":"你們要把這個提供啊"},{"start":7225.81,"end":7227.81,"text":"除了提供給經濟委員會之外"},{"start":7228.74,"end":7230.74,"text":"提供給國發會"},{"start":7231.51,"end":7233.51,"text":"提供給國發會"},{"start":7234.39,"end":7235.39,"text":"還有勞動部"},{"start":7236.67,"end":7237.67,"text":"當然國發會最重要"},{"start":7238.73,"end":7239.73,"text":"因為設計到整個"},{"start":7240.77,"end":7242.77,"text":"國家的政策"},{"start":7243.52,"end":7245.52,"text":"因為你不是你經濟部主管的"},{"start":7245.52,"end":7246.52,"text":"對不對"},{"start":7246.76,"end":7250.76,"text":"所以你要提供給尤其是行政院院長"},{"start":7251.57,"end":7252.57,"text":"甚至總統"},{"start":7253.85,"end":7254.85,"text":"怎麼樣去解決這個"},{"start":7256.28,"end":7257.28,"text":"重中之重"},{"start":7257.97,"end":7258.97,"text":"沒有了"},{"start":7259.39,"end":7260.39,"text":"對不對"},{"start":7260.3,"end":7261.3,"text":"沒有人怎麼去"},{"start":7261.3,"end":7263.3,"text":"你再多了錢"},{"start":7263.91,"end":7264.91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不是"},{"start":7765.83,"end":7766.83,"text":"你是不清楚沒辦法回答"},{"start":7766.83,"end":7767.83,"text":"還是說"},{"start":7767.83,"end":7768.83,"text":"是因為主題不是這個"},{"start":7768.83,"end":7769.83,"text":"所以你不想回答"},{"start":7769.83,"end":7770.83,"text":"不是"},{"start":7770.83,"end":7773.83,"text":"就是我的月館業務就是沒有接觸到這一塊"},{"start":7773.83,"end":7775.83,"text":"所以那個訊息可能不夠完"},{"start":7775.83,"end":7777.83,"text":"那你們事後你回去之後"},{"start":7777.83,"end":7778.83,"text":"好"},{"start":7778.83,"end":7779.83,"text":"好不好 各位分支"},{"start":7779.83,"end":7782.83,"text":"因為我想要知道到底是行政院知情人士亂講"},{"start":7782.83,"end":7783.83,"text":"還是怎麼樣"},{"start":7783.83,"end":7786.83,"text":"不然為什麼行政院的講法跟國庫署"},{"start":7786.83,"end":7788.83,"text":"我當然比較相信國庫署"},{"start":7788.83,"end":7789.83,"text":"因為你們是執行單位啊"},{"start":7789.83,"end":7790.83,"text":"你們一定有把相關的"},{"start":7791.66,"end":7792.66,"text":"就是期程算進來"},{"start":7792.66,"end":7795.66,"text":"那為什麼那時候行政院知情人士要隨便講咧"},{"start":7795.66,"end":7796.66,"text":"故意講一個春節錢"},{"start":7796.66,"end":7798.66,"text":"然後還扣一個帽子說"},{"start":7798.66,"end":7799.66,"text":"如果立法院三讀通過"},{"start":7799.66,"end":7801.66,"text":"那到時候民眾春節領不到"},{"start":7801.66,"end":7803.66,"text":"可能是因為國庫署作業的問題"},{"start":7803.66,"end":7804.66,"text":"但是又扣帽子說"},{"start":7804.66,"end":7806.66,"text":"又是立法院在擋預算"},{"start":7806.66,"end":7807.66,"text":"讓大家領不到"},{"start":7807.66,"end":7808.66,"text":"我覺得如果是這樣的話"},{"start":7808.66,"end":7809.66,"text":"又在搞認知作戰"},{"start":7809.66,"end":7810.66,"text":"所以我想要釐清這件事"},{"start":7810.66,"end":7811.66,"text":"那我也不為難你"},{"start":7811.66,"end":7815.66,"text":"你事後請國庫署把相關的資料整理給我"},{"start":7815.66,"end":7816.66,"text":"好不好"},{"start":7816.66,"end":7817.66,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":7817.66,"end":7818.66,"text":"我們提供書面說明 謝謝"},{"start":7818.66,"end":7819.66,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":7819.66,"end":7820.66,"text":"那接下來請那個"},{"start":7820.8,"end":7822.8,"text":"政務次長 何次長好不好"},{"start":7822.8,"end":7823.8,"text":"我們請這個何次長"},{"start":7827.82,"end":7828.82,"text":"好 業務好"},{"start":7828.82,"end":7829.82,"text":"我先跟您請教一下"},{"start":7829.82,"end":7830.82,"text":"因為現在經濟部"},{"start":7830.82,"end":7833.82,"text":"有將中小企業如果直接或間接"},{"start":7833.82,"end":7835.82,"text":"有受到美國關稅影響的"},{"start":7835.82,"end":7839.82,"text":"都會列為中小微企業專案的貸款的資格"},{"start":7839.82,"end":7842.82,"text":"其實這個做法就顯示"},{"start":7842.82,"end":7844.82,"text":"就是美國的關稅的政策"},{"start":7844.82,"end":7846.82,"text":"其實是會影響到"},{"start":7846.82,"end":7848.82,"text":"我們台灣的中小企業的現金流"},{"start":7848.82,"end":7851.82,"text":"所以你們才會提出這樣的措施"},{"start":7851.82,"end":7855.82,"text":"但我覺得中小企業遭受到比較大的"},{"start":7856.22,"end":7858.22,"text":"是在於說像大企業"},{"start":7858.22,"end":7860.22,"text":"我們現在一直在講說AI 半導體"},{"start":7860.22,"end":7862.22,"text":"這種大企業"},{"start":7862.22,"end":7865.22,"text":"它可以因為全球佈局或跟國際接軌"},{"start":7865.22,"end":7866.22,"text":"在國外設廠"},{"start":7866.22,"end":7869.22,"text":"它可以有一個出口比較高速的成長"},{"start":7869.22,"end":7870.22,"text":"可是中小企業"},{"start":7870.22,"end":7872.22,"text":"它可能就沒有辦法用一樣的模式"},{"start":7872.22,"end":7875.22,"text":"所以你們才會用專案貸款補助的方式"},{"start":7875.22,"end":7877.22,"text":"來協助他們"},{"start":7877.22,"end":7879.22,"text":"那我想先請教一下"},{"start":7879.22,"end":7880.22,"text":"你們有評估過"},{"start":7880.22,"end":7882.22,"text":"像這種中小企業"},{"start":7882.22,"end":7885.22,"text":"這個大概有多少企業會受到影響"},{"start":7885.22,"end":7886.22,"text":"然後有沒有評估過"},{"start":7886.22,"end":7888.22,"text":"因為這樣子導致於中小企業"},{"start":7888.22,"end":7891.22,"text":"他們的出口的產值下降"},{"start":7891.22,"end":7892.22,"text":"然後毛利率甚至下降"},{"start":7892.22,"end":7894.22,"text":"甚至產生裁員的狀況"},{"start":7894.22,"end":7896.22,"text":"你們有沒有評估過"},{"start":7897.31,"end":7898.31,"text":"跟我們報告"},{"start":7898.31,"end":7901.31,"text":"就從我們的數字來看"},{"start":7901.31,"end":7903.31,"text":"我們這個專案推出來之後"},{"start":7903.31,"end":7905.31,"text":"有來申請的中小企業"},{"start":7905.31,"end":7906.31,"text":"加入大概有一千多家"},{"start":7906.31,"end":7907.31,"text":"一千多家"},{"start":7907.31,"end":7908.31,"text":"所以很顯"},{"start":7908.31,"end":7909.31,"text":"大概帶出去多少錢"},{"start":7910.56,"end":7912.56,"text":"帶出去我手頭上"},{"start":7912.56,"end":7915.56,"text":"我請同仁給我看一下"},{"start":7919.1,"end":7920.1,"text":"欸"},{"start":7921.21,"end":7922.21,"text":"大概有"},{"start":7923.4,"end":7925.4,"text":"一把我看一下"},{"start":7929.09,"end":7931.09,"text":"應該是大概"},{"start":7934.05,"end":7935.05,"text":"179.8億"},{"start":7936.26,"end":7937.26,"text":"179.8億"},{"start":7937.26,"end":7939.26,"text":"就是已經帶出去179.8億"},{"start":7939.26,"end":7940.26,"text":"是是是"},{"start":7940.26,"end":7942.26,"text":"好那我想問一下"},{"start":7942.26,"end":7944.26,"text":"我們現在持續在做這件事情"},{"start":7944.26,"end":7946.26,"text":"一千多家179.8億"},{"start":7946.26,"end":7948.26,"text":"那你想要達到KPI到底是什麼"},{"start":7948.26,"end":7949.26,"text":"你不能說"},{"start":7949.26,"end":7951.26,"text":"無止盡的這樣子貸款出去"},{"start":7951.26,"end":7953.26,"text":"那會不會形成呆帳"},{"start":7953.26,"end":7955.26,"text":"那請教一下你現在"},{"start":7955.26,"end":7956.26,"text":"KPI是說"},{"start":7956.26,"end":7958.26,"text":"我自己發出去多少錢"},{"start":7958.26,"end":7959.26,"text":"當作KPI嗎"},{"start":7960.05,"end":7962.05,"text":"還是你是以保住多少企業"},{"start":7962.05,"end":7963.05,"text":"KPI"},{"start":7963.05,"end":7965.05,"text":"你是讓這些中小企業的"},{"start":7965.05,"end":7967.05,"text":"營業額成長毛利率增加"},{"start":7967.05,"end":7969.05,"text":"然後員工薪資提升來KPI"},{"start":7969.05,"end":7971.05,"text":"到底現在經濟部在這一塊的"},{"start":7971.05,"end":7973.05,"text":"你的策略到底是什麼"},{"start":7973.05,"end":7974.05,"text":"其實跟委員報告"},{"start":7974.05,"end":7978.05,"text":"當然就是要維持企業正常營運"},{"start":7978.05,"end":7980.05,"text":"然後保證不裁員"},{"start":7980.05,"end":7981.05,"text":"不減薪"},{"start":7981.05,"end":7983.05,"text":"這個當然是最重要的一個原則"},{"start":7983.05,"end":7985.05,"text":"那第二個部分當然就是說"},{"start":7985.05,"end":7986.05,"text":"我們也會看"},{"start":7986.05,"end":7989.05,"text":"企業它是不是有受到其他的影響"},{"start":7989.05,"end":7991.05,"text":"如果還有其他影響的話"},{"start":7991.05,"end":7993.05,"text":"我們有一些其他的福好事業"},{"start":7993.05,"end":7994.05,"text":"我們也會進來"},{"start":7994.05,"end":7997.05,"text":"所以這個其實是要綜合來看的"},{"start":7997.05,"end":7999.05,"text":"也不見得說我們"},{"start":7999.05,"end":8001.05,"text":"只有看一個指標"},{"start":8001.05,"end":8003.05,"text":"我剛剛講了很多指標"},{"start":8003.05,"end":8005.05,"text":"對 所以那指標都要綜合來看"},{"start":8005.05,"end":8006.05,"text":"市長這樣好不好"},{"start":8007.08,"end":8009.08,"text":"你可能還需要同仁提供資料"},{"start":8009.08,"end":8011.08,"text":"你提供一份資料給本席好不好"},{"start":8011.08,"end":8013.08,"text":"就是說你做這件事情"},{"start":8013.08,"end":8015.08,"text":"到底你的KPI目標是什麼"},{"start":8015.08,"end":8016.08,"text":"那現在怎麼樣"},{"start":8016.08,"end":8017.08,"text":"有沒有一些中小企業"},{"start":8017.08,"end":8018.08,"text":"已經撐不下去了"},{"start":8018.08,"end":8020.08,"text":"然後裁員裁多少呢"},{"start":8020.08,"end":8022.08,"text":"那到底做這件事情有沒有幫助"},{"start":8022.08,"end":8025.08,"text":"還有你有沒有一個長遠的規劃"},{"start":8025.08,"end":8028.08,"text":"因為這絕對是這一兩年很重要課題"},{"start":8028.08,"end":8030.08,"text":"你們到底具體來說"},{"start":8030.08,"end":8031.08,"text":"你的對策是什麼"},{"start":8031.08,"end":8033.08,"text":"你一併提供給我好不好"},{"start":8033.08,"end":8036.08,"text":"然後另外再提醒一件事情"},{"start":8036.08,"end":8038.08,"text":"因為我們現在在的地方"},{"start":8038.08,"end":8040.08,"text":"其實很多服務業"},{"start":8040.08,"end":8042.08,"text":"或者是傳統產業反應缺工的狀況"},{"start":8042.08,"end":8043.08,"text":"非常嚴重"},{"start":8043.08,"end":8045.08,"text":"而且這個缺工已經影響到他們的產值了"},{"start":8045.08,"end":8047.08,"text":"我舉個例子來講好像餐廳"},{"start":8047.08,"end":8049.08,"text":"有一個餐廳跟我講說"},{"start":8049.08,"end":8051.08,"text":"他們現在小菜都變比較少"},{"start":8051.08,"end":8052.08,"text":"他們小菜本來很多"},{"start":8052.08,"end":8053.08,"text":"那為什麼現在小菜比較少"},{"start":8053.08,"end":8054.08,"text":"因為沒有人去切"},{"start":8054.72,"end":8056.72,"text":"然後其實他也不是薪水開得低"},{"start":8056.72,"end":8059.72,"text":"薪水已經開到接近5萬塊了"},{"start":8059.72,"end":8060.72,"text":"5萬左右"},{"start":8060.72,"end":8062.72,"text":"然後也就正常上班也沒加班"},{"start":8062.72,"end":8064.72,"text":"這就沒有人要來做"},{"start":8064.72,"end":8065.72,"text":"就沒有人來做"},{"start":8065.72,"end":8067.72,"text":"所以他的產值就減少"},{"start":8067.72,"end":8068.72,"text":"那我還有"},{"start":8069.3,"end":8070.3,"text":"聽說另外一位"},{"start":8070.3,"end":8074.3,"text":"他也是做在市場切雞的"},{"start":8074.3,"end":8076.3,"text":"薪水開到7萬多塊"},{"start":8076.3,"end":8077.3,"text":"沒有人來做"},{"start":8077.3,"end":8078.3,"text":"雞沒有人切"},{"start":8078.3,"end":8079.3,"text":"所以就是"},{"start":8080.71,"end":8082.71,"text":"所以現在影響到中小企業的產值"},{"start":8082.71,"end":8084.71,"text":"有一個很大的原因是缺工"},{"start":8085.75,"end":8086.75,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":8087.71,"end":8089.71,"text":"好像公總也有提"},{"start":8089.71,"end":8090.71,"text":"那個建議也有講到這件事情"},{"start":8090.71,"end":8091.71,"text":"那現在"},{"start":8092.07,"end":8094.07,"text":"經濟部或者是國發會"},{"start":8094.07,"end":8096.07,"text":"對於缺工這麼嚴重"},{"start":8096.07,"end":8098.07,"text":"到底有沒有什麼對策"},{"start":8098.07,"end":8099.07,"text":"是"},{"start":8099.07,"end":8101.07,"text":"當然就是說我們希望"},{"start":8101.07,"end":8103.07,"text":"用數位的工具來"},{"start":8103.07,"end":8105.07,"text":"解決部分的缺工的問題"},{"start":8105.07,"end":8107.07,"text":"數位工具沒有辦法解決"},{"start":8107.07,"end":8109.07,"text":"那你要AI去幫忙切菜喔"},{"start":8109.07,"end":8112.07,"text":"或是機器手臂或是自動網"},{"start":8112.07,"end":8113.07,"text":"怎麼可能"},{"start":8113.07,"end":8115.07,"text":"小吃店還能自動手臂"},{"start":8115.07,"end":8117.07,"text":"市長這都不切實際"},{"start":8117.07,"end":8119.07,"text":"現在人家面臨到"},{"start":8119.07,"end":8120.07,"text":"產值逐漸下滑的問題"},{"start":8120.07,"end":8121.07,"text":"你還跟他講說"},{"start":8121.07,"end":8122.07,"text":"用機器手臂去切"},{"start":8122.07,"end":8123.07,"text":"哪有可能"},{"start":8123.07,"end":8125.07,"text":"那就是一般的餐飲"},{"start":8125.98,"end":8127.98,"text":"這一塊到底"},{"start":8128.55,"end":8129.55,"text":"請國發會"},{"start":8129.55,"end":8131.55,"text":"副主委來回答一下好不好"},{"start":8131.55,"end":8132.55,"text":"因為我看"},{"start":8132.55,"end":8134.55,"text":"副主委你有回答公總的問題"},{"start":8134.55,"end":8136.55,"text":"針對傳統產業缺工這麼嚴重"},{"start":8136.55,"end":8138.55,"text":"到底現在政府對策到底是什麼"},{"start":8138.55,"end":8140.55,"text":"是那個謝謝委員"},{"start":8140.55,"end":8142.55,"text":"因為我們對於傳統產業"},{"start":8142.55,"end":8144.55,"text":"特別是製造業的部分"},{"start":8144.55,"end":8145.55,"text":"過去相對上"},{"start":8145.55,"end":8147.55,"text":"在人力的補充措施"},{"start":8147.55,"end":8148.55,"text":"因為需求比較多"},{"start":8148.55,"end":8150.55,"text":"所以過去比較有相關的對策"},{"start":8150.55,"end":8152.55,"text":"那現在因為已經"},{"start":8152.55,"end":8153.55,"text":"開始擴充到委員"},{"start":8153.55,"end":8155.55,"text":"剛剛提到的比較是中小微"},{"start":8155.55,"end":8157.55,"text":"或者是服務業的部分"},{"start":8157.55,"end":8158.55,"text":"那這部分當然"},{"start":8158.55,"end":8160.55,"text":"一方面我們是希望這個"},{"start":8160.55,"end":8161.55,"text":"比較長期的"},{"start":8161.55,"end":8163.55,"text":"是透過我們的人口新戰略"},{"start":8163.55,"end":8165.55,"text":"來協助"},{"start":8165.55,"end":8166.55,"text":"那比較短期的部分"},{"start":8166.55,"end":8167.55,"text":"人口新戰略"},{"start":8167.55,"end":8168.55,"text":"現在少子化就越來越嚴重了"},{"start":8168.55,"end":8169.55,"text":"對所以我說"},{"start":8169.55,"end":8171.55,"text":"真的是比較長期的策略"},{"start":8171.55,"end":8172.55,"text":"你講"},{"start":8172.55,"end":8176.55,"text":"你說要提供人口新戰略"},{"start":8176.55,"end":8177.55,"text":"但是你們國發會"},{"start":8177.55,"end":8179.55,"text":"或是政府的少子化辦公室"},{"start":8179.55,"end":8181.55,"text":"成立了這麼多年"},{"start":8182.04,"end":8184.04,"text":"那我們的人口是越來越少"},{"start":8184.04,"end":8185.04,"text":"所以網路上就戲稱說"},{"start":8185.04,"end":8186.04,"text":"少子化辦公室"},{"start":8186.04,"end":8187.04,"text":"真的造成了少子化"},{"start":8187.04,"end":8188.04,"text":"沒有所以我"},{"start":8188.04,"end":8189.04,"text":"你現在還在跟我講說"},{"start":8189.04,"end":8190.04,"text":"我們要解決缺工時"},{"start":8190.04,"end":8192.04,"text":"要用人口新戰略來解決"},{"start":8192.04,"end":8193.04,"text":"我覺得大家"},{"start":8193.04,"end":8194.04,"text":"我現在講的很務實的問題"},{"start":8194.04,"end":8195.04,"text":"人家在跟我談的時候"},{"start":8195.04,"end":8197.04,"text":"都是非常憂心"},{"start":8197.04,"end":8198.04,"text":"怎麼辦委員"},{"start":8198.04,"end":8199.04,"text":"我們現在如何如何"},{"start":8199.04,"end":8200.04,"text":"市長怎樣怎樣"},{"start":8200.04,"end":8201.04,"text":"結果我們來國會質詢"},{"start":8201.04,"end":8202.04,"text":"我們官員"},{"start":8202.04,"end":8203.04,"text":"我們官員在跟我講空話"},{"start":8203.04,"end":8204.04,"text":"我們有人口新戰略"},{"start":8204.04,"end":8205.04,"text":"沒有沒有我是說長期"},{"start":8205.04,"end":8206.04,"text":"長期"},{"start":8206.04,"end":8207.04,"text":"我先講就是眼前嘛"},{"start":8207.04,"end":8209.04,"text":"眼前的問題嘛"},{"start":8209.04,"end":8210.04,"text":"你現在要怎麼做嘛"},{"start":8210.04,"end":8212.04,"text":"他們說服務業的部分"},{"start":8212.04,"end":8213.04,"text":"的確是比較困難"},{"start":8213.04,"end":8214.04,"text":"那怎麼辦嘛"},{"start":8214.04,"end":8216.04,"text":"沒有我們中小微的"},{"start":8216.04,"end":8218.04,"text":"這個新的措施"},{"start":8218.04,"end":8220.04,"text":"可能會透過擴大"},{"start":8220.04,"end":8222.04,"text":"對於中小微企業"},{"start":8222.04,"end":8224.04,"text":"在增固基層員工"},{"start":8224.04,"end":8226.04,"text":"或者是聘僱中高零就業方面"},{"start":8226.04,"end":8228.04,"text":"做一些新的措施"},{"start":8228.04,"end":8230.04,"text":"無論是補助或租稅優惠"},{"start":8230.04,"end":8232.04,"text":"來協助這些服務業"},{"start":8232.04,"end":8234.04,"text":"在目前面臨缺工的這個方向"},{"start":8234.04,"end":8235.04,"text":"你現在你是"},{"start":8235.04,"end":8237.04,"text":"你有計畫出來了嗎"},{"start":8238.37,"end":8240.37,"text":"現在經濟部跟各部會正在研擬中"},{"start":8240.37,"end":8242.37,"text":"應該很快會推出來"},{"start":8242.37,"end":8244.37,"text":"就是說你現在你們的規劃方向"},{"start":8244.37,"end":8245.37,"text":"是透過補助"},{"start":8245.37,"end":8246.37,"text":"譬如說像中小微"},{"start":8246.37,"end":8247.37,"text":"現在沒有"},{"start":8247.37,"end":8248.37,"text":"聘不到員工"},{"start":8248.37,"end":8250.37,"text":"那所以呢你就補助薪水"},{"start":8250.37,"end":8252.37,"text":"例如說他們這邊出5萬"},{"start":8252.37,"end":8253.37,"text":"政府補助2萬"},{"start":8253.37,"end":8255.37,"text":"7萬塊看有沒有人要來切菜"},{"start":8255.37,"end":8256.37,"text":"是這個意思嗎"},{"start":8256.37,"end":8258.37,"text":"增固員工有那個費用加成的"},{"start":8258.37,"end":8259.37,"text":"費用加成嘛"},{"start":8259.37,"end":8260.37,"text":"就是類似這樣的做法"},{"start":8260.37,"end":8262.37,"text":"又是用補助的方式嘛"},{"start":8262.37,"end":8263.37,"text":"還有中高零就業"},{"start":8263.37,"end":8264.37,"text":"還有中高零就業也是一樣啊"},{"start":8264.37,"end":8265.37,"text":"中高零就業也是一樣啊"},{"start":8265.37,"end":8267.37,"text":"就要用推出這種措施"},{"start":8267.37,"end":8268.37,"text":"推出這種方式來"},{"start":8268.37,"end":8270.37,"text":"看看有沒有辦法協助他們找到"},{"start":8270.37,"end":8272.37,"text":"那如果人口不夠的話"},{"start":8272.37,"end":8273.37,"text":"到大家都在搶人的話"},{"start":8273.37,"end":8274.37,"text":"還是不夠啊"},{"start":8274.37,"end":8276.37,"text":"所以你們現在都是"},{"start":8276.37,"end":8277.37,"text":"頭頭一頭腳頭一腳吧"},{"start":8277.37,"end":8279.37,"text":"哇東牆補西牆"},{"start":8279.37,"end":8281.37,"text":"我們幫他會這個真的拜託一下"},{"start":8281.37,"end":8283.37,"text":"這個缺工問題也不是一天兩天了啦"},{"start":8283.37,"end":8285.37,"text":"今天來這邊問你這樣回答"},{"start":8285.37,"end":8287.37,"text":"我真的覺得政府好像都沒有很在乎"},{"start":8287.37,"end":8289.37,"text":"不是因為這部分有新的措施啊"},{"start":8289.37,"end":8291.37,"text":"中小微企業聽到你的回答會很難過啦"},{"start":8291.37,"end":8293.37,"text":"希望多加油好不好"},{"start":8293.37,"end":8295.37,"text":"你剛剛那個政策提供給我一份好不好"},{"start":8295.37,"end":8297.37,"text":"什麼時候可以有"},{"start":8297.37,"end":8299.37,"text":"應該很快就會宣布了"},{"start":8299.37,"end":8301.37,"text":"什麼時候"},{"start":8300.51,"end":8302.51,"text":"哦"},{"start":8302.28,"end":8304.28,"text":"如果就法律的部分"},{"start":8304.28,"end":8306.28,"text":"我們是以九月的這個為目標啦"},{"start":8306.28,"end":8308.28,"text":"九月曆"},{"start":8308.28,"end":8310.28,"text":"所以能夠送到"},{"start":8310.28,"end":8312.28,"text":"那政策"},{"start":8312.28,"end":8314.28,"text":"學習要更慢了嗎"},{"start":8314.28,"end":8316.28,"text":"你行政命令可以做嗎"},{"start":8316.28,"end":8318.28,"text":"有一些"},{"start":8318.28,"end":8320.28,"text":"輔導的或是說"},{"start":8320.28,"end":8322.28,"text":"這個協助的措施可能是用行政措施"},{"start":8322.28,"end":8324.28,"text":"但有一些像剛剛提到"},{"start":8324.28,"end":8326.28,"text":"租稅或擴大這個協助的部分"},{"start":8326.28,"end":8328.28,"text":"有些要透過法律"},{"start":8328.28,"end":8330.28,"text":"所以這個法律會送到"},{"start":8330.28,"end":8332.28,"text":"這樣你理解是還蠻嚴重的"},{"start":8332.28,"end":8334.28,"text":"希望政府官員可以正視這件事情"},{"start":8334.28,"end":8336.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8338.83,"end":8340.83,"text":"好 我們謝謝葉原子委員"},{"start":8340.83,"end":8342.83,"text":"接下來陳超明委員"},{"start":8342.83,"end":8344.83,"text":"陳超明委員陳超明委員不在"},{"start":8344.83,"end":8346.83,"text":"接下來我們請蔡益妤委員質詢"},{"start":8357.97,"end":8359.97,"text":"好 我們先請經濟部部長"},{"start":8359.97,"end":8361.97,"text":"市長"},{"start":8362.98,"end":8364.98,"text":"嗯"},{"start":8365.58,"end":8367.58,"text":"這個產業發展署的副署長"},{"start":8369.15,"end":8371.15,"text":"好 我們請發署陳副署長"},{"start":8373.36,"end":8375.36,"text":"蔡委員好"},{"start":8376.31,"end":8378.31,"text":"嗯"},{"start":8378.16,"end":8380.16,"text":"好"},{"start":8379.09,"end":8381.09,"text":"這個部長好"},{"start":8380.95,"end":8382.95,"text":"部長我們上一次經濟委員會的考察"},{"start":8384.61,"end":8386.61,"text":"事實上有去看了幾個商場"},{"start":8388.85,"end":8390.85,"text":"包括蒜頭"},{"start":8390.85,"end":8392.85,"text":"蒜頭的這個"},{"start":8392.47,"end":8394.47,"text":"他們的傳統的市場"},{"start":8394.87,"end":8396.87,"text":"好"},{"start":8396.87,"end":8398.87,"text":"那以及我們現在我之前質詢有去講過"},{"start":8398.87,"end":8400.87,"text":"副署的市場"},{"start":8400.87,"end":8402.87,"text":"事實上這個市場都需要"},{"start":8402.87,"end":8404.87,"text":"有一些整建"},{"start":8404.87,"end":8406.87,"text":"那當時都是說必須要在這個計畫"},{"start":8406.87,"end":8408.87,"text":"核定後8年1000億的一個計畫"},{"start":8408.87,"end":8410.87,"text":"那我現在想要請教的是說"},{"start":8410.87,"end":8412.87,"text":"那我們這樣幾個"},{"start":8412.87,"end":8414.87,"text":"商場的整建案"},{"start":8414.87,"end":8416.87,"text":"都未來會"},{"start":8416.87,"end":8418.87,"text":"有需要改建的"},{"start":8418.87,"end":8420.87,"text":"這個都有辦法被落實嗎"},{"start":8420.87,"end":8422.87,"text":"嗯"},{"start":8422.87,"end":8424.87,"text":"那到時候我們會看預算"},{"start":8424.87,"end":8426.87,"text":"編列的這個額度的"},{"start":8426.87,"end":8428.87,"text":"內容我們會用"},{"start":8428.87,"end":8430.87,"text":"這個"},{"start":8430.87,"end":8432.87,"text":"這個公開"},{"start":8432.15,"end":8434.15,"text":"來"},{"start":8433.51,"end":8435.51,"text":"這個真"},{"start":8435.51,"end":8437.51,"text":"審查的這個方式"},{"start":8437.51,"end":8439.51,"text":"來救全國各縣市"},{"start":8439.51,"end":8441.51,"text":"急迫需要做改建的"},{"start":8441.51,"end":8443.51,"text":"這樣的一個市場我們會"},{"start":8443.51,"end":8445.51,"text":"會來做優先的"},{"start":8445.51,"end":8447.51,"text":"來做整建"},{"start":8447.51,"end":8449.51,"text":"所以說你們現在只能做"},{"start":8449.51,"end":8451.51,"text":"案件的收集"},{"start":8451.51,"end":8453.51,"text":"那等到預算通過後"},{"start":8453.51,"end":8455.51,"text":"再來執行"},{"start":8455.51,"end":8457.51,"text":"再看如何要執行"},{"start":8457.51,"end":8459.51,"text":"因為這樣看起來這一些傳統的市場"},{"start":8459.51,"end":8461.51,"text":"傳統的市場他"},{"start":8461.51,"end":8463.51,"text":"面對他可能客源比較沒有"},{"start":8463.51,"end":8465.51,"text":"辦法進去主要都是在"},{"start":8465.51,"end":8467.51,"text":"一些硬體啦"},{"start":8467.51,"end":8469.51,"text":"以及他的這個整個"},{"start":8469.51,"end":8471.51,"text":"移動的時候"},{"start":8471.51,"end":8473.51,"text":"空間的一個環境"},{"start":8473.51,"end":8475.51,"text":"現在的人可能都習慣"},{"start":8475.51,"end":8477.51,"text":"要在冷氣有冷氣的空間"},{"start":8477.51,"end":8479.51,"text":"你傳統的市場他就沒有"},{"start":8479.51,"end":8481.51,"text":"辦法有冷氣嘛"},{"start":8481.51,"end":8483.51,"text":"所以有沒有可能打造出他們裡面"},{"start":8483.51,"end":8485.51,"text":"更舒適的環境"},{"start":8485.51,"end":8487.51,"text":"讓現在的人"},{"start":8487.51,"end":8489.51,"text":"也會是喜歡去這裡消費"},{"start":8489.51,"end":8491.51,"text":"那我想這個是你們"},{"start":8491.51,"end":8493.51,"text":"應該是可以考慮去"},{"start":8493.51,"end":8495.51,"text":"如何落實到這一塊"},{"start":8495.51,"end":8497.51,"text":"當然並不是所有的空間"},{"start":8497.51,"end":8499.51,"text":"都適合那樣做"},{"start":8499.51,"end":8501.51,"text":"但是總是可以去增強"},{"start":8501.51,"end":8503.51,"text":"像我們去蒜頭的"},{"start":8503.51,"end":8505.51,"text":"他的傳統市場他是天花板剝落的"},{"start":8505.51,"end":8507.51,"text":"問題"},{"start":8507.51,"end":8509.51,"text":"天花板剝落就是很基本的問題"},{"start":8509.51,"end":8511.51,"text":"像這個我想說可以做的我們就快點做"},{"start":8511.51,"end":8513.51,"text":"這樣好不好"},{"start":8513.51,"end":8515.51,"text":"那我接下來來問"},{"start":8515.51,"end":8517.51,"text":"跟這幾天的這個"},{"start":8517.89,"end":8519.89,"text":"雲嘉南的這個"},{"start":8519.89,"end":8521.89,"text":"洪水這個大雨是有關"},{"start":8521.89,"end":8523.89,"text":"那我還是要請教一下"},{"start":8523.89,"end":8525.89,"text":"次長啦"},{"start":8525.89,"end":8527.89,"text":"所以這個長沙鼠這邊可以先"},{"start":8527.89,"end":8529.89,"text":"可以先不用"},{"start":8529.45,"end":8531.45,"text":"我還請教次長"},{"start":8531.45,"end":8533.45,"text":"因為現在總預算通過了"},{"start":8533.45,"end":8535.45,"text":"那當然在之前卡到"},{"start":8535.45,"end":8537.45,"text":"就是今年度的總預算"},{"start":8537.45,"end":8539.45,"text":"變得很多的"},{"start":8539.45,"end":8541.45,"text":"我們一直很"},{"start":8541.45,"end":8543.45,"text":"要緊的這個治水的一個工程"},{"start":8543.45,"end":8545.45,"text":"事實上多多少少"},{"start":8545.45,"end":8547.45,"text":"都被延宕到了"},{"start":8547.45,"end":8549.45,"text":"那這個延宕事實上是"},{"start":8549.45,"end":8551.45,"text":"玩這次很熱"},{"start":8551.45,"end":8553.45,"text":"這次的這個好大雨"},{"start":8553.45,"end":8555.45,"text":"而且甚至有一個"},{"start":8555.45,"end":8557.45,"text":"熱帶地氣壓在"},{"start":8557.45,"end":8559.45,"text":"星期八一的晚上"},{"start":8559.45,"end":8561.45,"text":"竟然直接在我們嘉義布袋的外海"},{"start":8561.45,"end":8563.45,"text":"就形成了TD24"},{"start":8563.45,"end":8565.45,"text":"一個熱帶地氣壓"},{"start":8565.45,"end":8567.45,"text":"這個過去也是前所未見"},{"start":8567.45,"end":8569.45,"text":"因為它已經臨界快要變成一個"},{"start":8569.45,"end":8571.45,"text":"小型颱風了"},{"start":8571.45,"end":8573.45,"text":"一個青苔了"},{"start":8573.45,"end":8575.45,"text":"所以直接在我們台灣海峽的外海就形成"},{"start":8575.45,"end":8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8775.99,"end":8777.99,"text":"至少他不用說每年"},{"start":8777.99,"end":8779.99,"text":"每年要再重新核定的問題"},{"start":8779.99,"end":8781.99,"text":"你讓他一次到位後"},{"start":8781.99,"end":8783.99,"text":"接下來就是怎麼去調配"},{"start":8783.99,"end":8785.99,"text":"他的工程量能讓他可以"},{"start":8785.99,"end":8787.99,"text":"再快一點的把它完成"},{"start":8787.99,"end":8789.99,"text":"是這個部分我們會跟嘉義縣政府"},{"start":8789.99,"end":8791.99,"text":"的水利局的水利單位的同仁"},{"start":8791.99,"end":8793.99,"text":"來一起來考慮一下"},{"start":8793.99,"end":8795.99,"text":"我希望是由"},{"start":8795.99,"end":8797.99,"text":"經濟部以及我們五合分署"},{"start":8797.99,"end":8799.99,"text":"你們直接盯緊進度"},{"start":8799.99,"end":8801.99,"text":"對我們縣政府也一樣"},{"start":8801.99,"end":8803.99,"text":"給他們壓力"},{"start":8803.99,"end":8805.99,"text":"說錢我們也是要給你喔"},{"start":8805.99,"end":8807.99,"text":"預算我們給你喔"},{"start":8807.99,"end":8809.99,"text":"你們進度怎麼"},{"start":8809.99,"end":8811.99,"text":"跟你們這邊配合怎麼吹出來"},{"start":8811.99,"end":8813.99,"text":"就是說由你們來盯緊進度"},{"start":8813.99,"end":8815.99,"text":"六角排水跟南進排水"},{"start":8815.99,"end":8817.99,"text":"因為他們已經"},{"start":8817.99,"end":8819.99,"text":"淹太多次了"},{"start":8819.99,"end":8821.99,"text":"我們希望是說"},{"start":8821.99,"end":8823.99,"text":"不要說每次都寄託在"},{"start":8823.99,"end":8825.99,"text":"新年降雨期中就是不帶冬食"},{"start":8825.99,"end":8827.99,"text":"不帶冬食那裡正好我們整治的"},{"start":8827.99,"end":8829.99,"text":"也有成效所以這次在不帶冬食"},{"start":8829.99,"end":8831.99,"text":"就是"},{"start":8831.99,"end":8833.99,"text":"看起來是比較沒有淹水的狀況"},{"start":8833.99,"end":8835.99,"text":"正好下雨也集中在那邊"},{"start":8835.99,"end":8837.99,"text":"那以後如果下雨又集中在"},{"start":8837.99,"end":8839.99,"text":"不同區塊"},{"start":8839.99,"end":8841.99,"text":"就換那邊可能會淹水"},{"start":8841.99,"end":8843.99,"text":"所以我是覺得說"},{"start":8843.99,"end":8845.99,"text":"拜託你們來盯緊進度"},{"start":8845.99,"end":8847.99,"text":"然後預算一次到位"},{"start":8847.99,"end":8849.99,"text":"那我再來問"},{"start":8849.99,"end":8851.99,"text":"那接下來再問另外一個"},{"start":8851.99,"end":8853.99,"text":"一樣是因為總預算已經通過了"},{"start":8853.99,"end":8855.99,"text":"所以我再"},{"start":8855.78,"end":8857.78,"text":"整個年度"},{"start":8857.78,"end":8859.78,"text":"就一直要再追可是都卡在總預算"},{"start":8859.78,"end":8861.78,"text":"都沒辦法問的問題"},{"start":8861.78,"end":8863.78,"text":"就是說應該"},{"start":8863.78,"end":8865.78,"text":"市長也很知道我現在很要緊"},{"start":8865.78,"end":8867.78,"text":"我們這個亞創二館"},{"start":8867.78,"end":8869.78,"text":"因為我們整個無人機的一個"},{"start":8869.78,"end":8871.78,"text":"一個發展嘛那我們"},{"start":8871.78,"end":8873.78,"text":"知道亞創中心就是"},{"start":8873.78,"end":8875.78,"text":"它整個是未來它的"},{"start":8875.78,"end":8877.78,"text":"測試啦"},{"start":8877.78,"end":8879.78,"text":"以及它整個研發的一個"},{"start":8879.78,"end":8881.78,"text":"一個中心"},{"start":8881.78,"end":8883.78,"text":"但是無人機的亞創一館"},{"start":8883.78,"end":8885.78,"text":"已經進駐了"},{"start":8885.78,"end":8887.78,"text":"企業已經五十幾家"},{"start":8887.78,"end":8889.78,"text":"那五十幾家它的空間完全不足"},{"start":8889.78,"end":8891.78,"text":"所以我們需要亞創二館"},{"start":8891.78,"end":8893.78,"text":"甚至亞創二館裡面它還有規劃著"},{"start":8893.78,"end":8895.78,"text":"一些一個跑道的"},{"start":8895.78,"end":8897.78,"text":"一個測試跑道"},{"start":8897.78,"end":8899.78,"text":"所以它才會變成一個完整的"},{"start":8899.78,"end":8901.78,"text":"無人機的一個"},{"start":8901.78,"end":8903.78,"text":"一個研發測試中心"},{"start":8903.78,"end":8905.78,"text":"那亞創二館說預算之前"},{"start":8905.78,"end":8907.78,"text":"是卡還差"},{"start":8907.78,"end":8909.78,"text":"還差11.3億"},{"start":8909.78,"end":8911.78,"text":"顯3、4億"},{"start":8911.78,"end":8913.78,"text":"當時也是說卡在總預算"},{"start":8913.78,"end":8915.78,"text":"說你們沒有辦法來核定"},{"start":8915.78,"end":8917.78,"text":"那現在總預算通過了"},{"start":8917.78,"end":8919.78,"text":"我們亞創二館的計畫"},{"start":8919.78,"end":8921.78,"text":"可以來核定了嗎"},{"start":8921.78,"end":8923.78,"text":"是我們就會"},{"start":8923.78,"end":8925.78,"text":"盡快來核定這樣的一個計畫"},{"start":8925.78,"end":8927.78,"text":"不過後續可能"},{"start":8927.78,"end":8929.78,"text":"還有一些經費我們現在"},{"start":8929.78,"end":8931.78,"text":"正在送那個公建的計畫"},{"start":8931.78,"end":8933.78,"text":"審查當中"},{"start":8933.78,"end":8935.78,"text":"可能會編在未來年度的"},{"start":8935.78,"end":8937.78,"text":"這個預算裡面"},{"start":8937.74,"end":8939.74,"text":"那是後續的"},{"start":8939.74,"end":8941.74,"text":"應該跟二期這個是分開"},{"start":8941.74,"end":8943.74,"text":"分開看的嘛"},{"start":8943.74,"end":8945.74,"text":"二期這一塊是照原先計畫"},{"start":8945.74,"end":8947.74,"text":"因為它可能就是一些工程案"},{"start":8947.74,"end":8949.74,"text":"它需要把那個"},{"start":8949.74,"end":8951.74,"text":"整個無人機的"},{"start":8951.74,"end":8953.74,"text":"周遭的一個環境要把它打造出來"},{"start":8953.74,"end":8955.74,"text":"所以這個應該是"},{"start":8955.74,"end":8957.74,"text":"可以先核定"},{"start":8957.74,"end":8959.74,"text":"那當然後面還會有後面的後續計畫"},{"start":8959.74,"end":8961.74,"text":"那這個我們很重要"},{"start":8961.74,"end":8963.74,"text":"那因為接下來就是"},{"start":8963.74,"end":8965.74,"text":"634億的無人機預算"},{"start":8965.74,"end":8967.74,"text":"這個事實上也涉及到"},{"start":8967.74,"end":8969.74,"text":"未來的無人機"},{"start":8969.74,"end":8971.74,"text":"你們要在哪裡"},{"start":8971.74,"end":8973.74,"text":"無人機是還包括無人船"},{"start":8974.39,"end":8976.39,"text":"除了在天上飛的"},{"start":8976.39,"end":8978.39,"text":"也有在水下跑的"},{"start":8978.39,"end":8980.39,"text":"這都很重要"},{"start":8980.39,"end":8982.39,"text":"那我們嘉義如果這邊是未來"},{"start":8982.39,"end":8984.39,"text":"整個無人機的一個研發"},{"start":8984.39,"end":8986.39,"text":"甚至民雄航海基地"},{"start":8986.39,"end":8988.39,"text":"它會是未來的一個生產中心的話"},{"start":8988.39,"end":8990.39,"text":"它未來要在對"},{"start":8990.39,"end":8992.39,"text":"作為無人機是飛是航的"},{"start":8992.39,"end":8994.39,"text":"一個場域就很重要"},{"start":8994.39,"end":8996.39,"text":"那次長我們之前"},{"start":8996.39,"end":8998.39,"text":"也有建議說"},{"start":8998.39,"end":9000.39,"text":"這個布袋商港的難題"},{"start":9000.39,"end":9002.39,"text":"它那邊有超過"},{"start":9002.39,"end":9004.39,"text":"30加40"},{"start":9004.39,"end":9006.39,"text":"超過70公頃的一個面積"},{"start":9006.39,"end":9008.39,"text":"那未來商港的難題我們知道"},{"start":9008.39,"end":9010.39,"text":"它那邊是距離澎湖最近"},{"start":9010.39,"end":9012.39,"text":"從布袋港到"},{"start":9012.39,"end":9014.39,"text":"龍門港是台灣跟澎湖最近"},{"start":9014.39,"end":9016.39,"text":"那如果無人機"},{"start":9016.39,"end":9018.39,"text":"無人船的概念是可以從這邊"},{"start":9018.39,"end":9020.39,"text":"來做出發"},{"start":9020.39,"end":9022.39,"text":"直接到澎湖港去做"},{"start":9022.39,"end":9024.39,"text":"兩個地方的對接的話"},{"start":9024.39,"end":9026.39,"text":"事實上過去都認為說"},{"start":9026.39,"end":9028.39,"text":"這是一個最好的一個"},{"start":9028.39,"end":9030.39,"text":"它的測試的一個情境空間"},{"start":9030.39,"end":9032.39,"text":"那這一塊當然也要"},{"start":9032.39,"end":9034.39,"text":"交通部來認為說"},{"start":9034.39,"end":9036.39,"text":"是否可行嘛"},{"start":9036.39,"end":9038.39,"text":"但是我覺得說既然這個"},{"start":9038.39,"end":9040.39,"text":"無人機的這個630的預算通過"},{"start":9040.39,"end":9042.39,"text":"那我們對於整個無人機"},{"start":9042.39,"end":9044.39,"text":"打造這個無人機國家"},{"start":9044.39,"end":9046.39,"text":"對測試非常的重要"},{"start":9046.39,"end":9048.39,"text":"是飛是航的一個"},{"start":9048.39,"end":9050.39,"text":"空間很重要"},{"start":9050.39,"end":9052.39,"text":"那是不是這一塊也可以"},{"start":9052.39,"end":9054.39,"text":"快一點來"},{"start":9054.39,"end":9056.39,"text":"做一個現場的"},{"start":9056.39,"end":9058.39,"text":"會勘然後最後來看怎麼去讓"},{"start":9058.39,"end":9060.39,"text":"讓它落實"},{"start":9060.39,"end":9062.39,"text":"我想我們會把委員的"},{"start":9062.39,"end":9064.39,"text":"這個建議我們會"},{"start":9064.39,"end":9066.39,"text":"跟交易部這邊來"},{"start":9066.39,"end":9068.39,"text":"交易部交通部"},{"start":9068.39,"end":9070.39,"text":"交通部對因為我講了好幾次"},{"start":9070.39,"end":9072.39,"text":"我在經濟委員會"},{"start":9072.39,"end":9074.39,"text":"只是說現在看起來我們"},{"start":9074.39,"end":9076.39,"text":"這幾次的排無人機議題"},{"start":9076.39,"end":9078.39,"text":"交通部沒有到"},{"start":9078.39,"end":9080.39,"text":"所以事實上我也希望你們趕快跟交通部來確認"},{"start":9080.39,"end":9082.39,"text":"到底無人機"},{"start":9082.39,"end":9084.39,"text":"你們國內的無人機尤其是在"},{"start":9084.39,"end":9086.39,"text":"西我們台灣的一個"},{"start":9086.39,"end":9088.39,"text":"西半部的並不是東邊的"},{"start":9088.39,"end":9090.39,"text":"西半部如果這邊會有產業的"},{"start":9090.39,"end":9092.39,"text":"聚落的話它無人機"},{"start":9092.39,"end":9094.39,"text":"到底買到氣盤買到氣行型"},{"start":9094.39,"end":9096.39,"text":"這個東西要快點決定"},{"start":9096.39,"end":9098.39,"text":"這樣好不好好好謝謝"},{"start":9098.39,"end":9100.39,"text":"市長謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":9102.64,"end":9104.64,"text":"好謝謝蔡議員與委員"},{"start":9104.64,"end":9106.64,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9107.72,"end":9109.72,"text":"登記的發言委員除不在場外"},{"start":9109.72,"end":9111.72,"text":"7月15日發言完畢"},{"start":9111.72,"end":9113.72,"text":"尋答結束"},{"start":9113.72,"end":9115.72,"text":"委員正正前赴"},{"start":9115.72,"end":9117.72,"text":"昆琦邱義營謝一鳳"},{"start":9117.72,"end":9119.72,"text":"徐新雲陳超明委員"},{"start":9119.72,"end":9121.72,"text":"所提書面質詢"},{"start":9121.72,"end":9123.72,"text":"列入紀錄判登登報"},{"start":9123.72,"end":9125.72,"text":"書面質詢和"},{"start":9125.72,"end":9127.72,"text":"未集答覆部分"},{"start":9127.72,"end":9129.72,"text":"請相關單位一週內"},{"start":9129.72,"end":9131.72,"text":"以書面答覆不複製本會"},{"start":9131.72,"end":9133.72,"text":"委員另要求"},{"start":9133.72,"end":9135.72,"text":"期限者重啟所定"},{"start":9135.72,"end":9137.72,"text":"本次會議議事令授權"},{"start":9137.72,"end":9139.72,"text":"由本席"},{"start":9139.72,"end":9141.72,"text":"核定後確定本日"},{"start":9141.72,"end":9143.72,"text":"所列議程處理玩具"},{"start":9143.72,"end":9145.72,"text":"現在上後"},{"start":9154.18,"end":9156.18,"text":"會議結束"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":756.98,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_00","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"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