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謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":1764.26,"end":1768.66,"text":"好 謝謝各位到場的黨團幹部請坐"},{"start":1768.66,"end":1771.86,"text":"還有我們練習的陳冠廷委員賴思寶委員也請坐"},{"start":1771.86,"end":1773.86,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":1774.91,"end":1776.91,"text":"好 謝謝各位練習的官員也請坐"},{"start":1882.81,"end":1884.81,"text":"好 謝謝 副總召一到"},{"start":1884.81,"end":1886.81,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部"},{"start":1886.81,"end":1890.01,"text":"三位總召各位黨團幹部還有練習的賴委員陳委員"},{"start":1890.01,"end":1892.81,"text":"各位練習的官員 各位工作夥伴"},{"start":1892.81,"end":1897.81,"text":"那今天我們黨變動已經到 我們要協商無人機採購特別條例草案"},{"start":1897.81,"end":1900.81,"text":"開始協商之前要向各位黨團幹部來報告一下"},{"start":1901.69,"end":1905.69,"text":"這幾天南部可以說連日豪雨災情慘重"},{"start":1905.69,"end":1907.69,"text":"大家都在努力的看災救災"},{"start":1907.69,"end":1909.69,"text":"加上氣象署呢"},{"start":1909.69,"end":1913.69,"text":"預報我們沙德爾颱風可能在本週五會接近台灣"},{"start":1913.69,"end":1917.69,"text":"為了方便政府部門還有民意代表"},{"start":1917.69,"end":1919.69,"text":"共同來處理防災的相關事宜"},{"start":1920.63,"end":1922.63,"text":"在這裡要建議一個黨團幹部是否接受"},{"start":1922.63,"end":1929.63,"text":"把本週五28號所開的院會提早日明天8月27號來進行"},{"start":1929.63,"end":1932.63,"text":"這一點要請各位黨團幹部來研究一下"},{"start":1934.07,"end":1936.07,"text":"如果可以的話我們就明天早上"},{"start":1939.39,"end":1942.39,"text":"蔡永莊 結束"},{"start":1943.15,"end":1945.15,"text":"陳總照接受 現在請副總照"},{"start":1945.15,"end":1948.15,"text":"我想我們都配合 配合院長"},{"start":1948.15,"end":1951.15,"text":"那我這裡有一個協商草稿 我們有發下去"},{"start":1951.15,"end":1953.15,"text":"那我來唸一遍給大家聽一下"},{"start":1953.97,"end":1955.97,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1954.56,"end":1956.56,"text":"立法院草稿黨團協商"},{"start":1956.56,"end":1959.56,"text":"115年8月26號星期三下午的3點30分"},{"start":1959.56,"end":1961.56,"text":"地點紅樓302"},{"start":1961.56,"end":1965.56,"text":"我們決定因應沙德爾颱風來襲各黨團同意"},{"start":1965.56,"end":1970.56,"text":"將原定8月28號星期五的院會提前至27號星期四開會"},{"start":1970.56,"end":1974.56,"text":"處理原定之無人載具相關條例制定案"},{"start":1974.56,"end":1978.56,"text":"公民投票法修正案及完成協商之議案"},{"start":1978.56,"end":1980.56,"text":"處理完畢 我們進行散會"},{"start":1980.56,"end":1982.56,"text":"如果各位黨團幹部同意的話"},{"start":1982.56,"end":1984.56,"text":"麻煩請簽字 好嗎 謝謝"},{"start":1989.04,"end":1992.04,"text":"院長 那個公民投票法修正案是"},{"start":1992.04,"end":1993.04,"text":"他們送來"},{"start":1993.04,"end":1994.04,"text":"那個還沒協商不是嗎"},{"start":1995.08,"end":1997.08,"text":"等一下會有空 等一下會有空"},{"start":1997.08,"end":1998.08,"text":"沒有空 沒有空"},{"start":1998.08,"end":2000.08,"text":"今天就加這一案進來"},{"start":2000.08,"end":2001.08,"text":"會爭取 會的"},{"start":2001.08,"end":2005.08,"text":"對 院長 我覺得加應該要事先讓大家知道"},{"start":2005.08,"end":2006.08,"text":"因為為什麼"},{"start":2006.08,"end":2010.08,"text":"因為我們主張公民投票有意見的委員"},{"start":2010.08,"end":2012.08,"text":"要先讓他知道有這個協商"},{"start":2013.18,"end":2015.18,"text":"所以我覺得這樣其實是不大頭"},{"start":2015.18,"end":2019.18,"text":"因為這樣我們也很難在這裡做處理"},{"start":2019.18,"end":2021.18,"text":"你也沒先讓大家知道要協商"},{"start":2021.18,"end":2023.18,"text":"沒有問題 院長 沒問題"},{"start":2029.3,"end":2030.3,"text":"沒有問題 這樣子好"},{"start":2030.3,"end":2031.3,"text":"因為明天早上九點開會"},{"start":2031.3,"end":2033.3,"text":"我會宣讀黨團共識"},{"start":2033.3,"end":2036.3,"text":"九點半 拜託各位黨團幹部到議場後方主席辦公室"},{"start":2036.3,"end":2038.3,"text":"我們來溝通"},{"start":2038.3,"end":2041.3,"text":"十點整 可能各位委員就要開始進行表決"},{"start":2041.3,"end":2042.3,"text":"所以我們還有一個緩衝"},{"start":2042.3,"end":2044.3,"text":"就是明天早上九點半"},{"start":2044.3,"end":2046.3,"text":"這等一下各位 跟各位總召"},{"start":2046.3,"end":2047.3,"text":"特別來報告一下"},{"start":2047.3,"end":2049.3,"text":"不會有任何假帶私貨 絕對不會有的"},{"start":2049.3,"end":2051.3,"text":"一定要徵詢大家的同意"},{"start":2051.3,"end":2053.3,"text":"那如果可以 我們先列進來"},{"start":2053.3,"end":2054.3,"text":"但是明天九點半"},{"start":2054.3,"end":2056.3,"text":"如果沒有辦法達成共識"},{"start":2056.3,"end":2058.3,"text":"到時候我們看如何處理"},{"start":2058,"end":2060,"text":"這一點請大家一定要放心"},{"start":2060.54,"end":2061.54,"text":"好吧"},{"start":2068.05,"end":2069.05,"text":"九點半會議開會"},{"start":2070.05,"end":2072.05,"text":"我的意思是說這個就不用寫啦"},{"start":2072.05,"end":2074.05,"text":"因為你明天就直接溝通就好了"},{"start":2074.05,"end":2075.05,"text":"那我們修正"},{"start":2075.05,"end":2078.05,"text":"我們就處理原定無人機載具相關制定案"},{"start":2078.05,"end":2079.05,"text":"其他我們就不寫"},{"start":2079.05,"end":2080.05,"text":"好不好"},{"start":2080.05,"end":2082.05,"text":"好的好的好的"},{"start":2082.05,"end":2084.05,"text":"那我們就找一份把它畫掉"},{"start":2092.43,"end":2094.43,"text":"我的意思是說你其他的議案"},{"start":2094.43,"end":2096.43,"text":"只要朝野都沒有意見"},{"start":2096.43,"end":2099.43,"text":"明天本來就溝通完就可以處理嘛"},{"start":2099.43,"end":2103.43,"text":"那我們今天就依照原定的協商議程寫嘛"},{"start":2103.43,"end":2105.43,"text":"明天反正你不只這樣子"},{"start":2105.43,"end":2107.43,"text":"你還可以完成其他協商議案"},{"start":2107.43,"end":2110.43,"text":"換言之那是加N的概念嘛"},{"start":2113.78,"end":2115.78,"text":"對 集完成協商就可以"},{"start":2115.78,"end":2118.78,"text":"你協商完哪一條都可以處理"},{"start":2118.78,"end":2119.78,"text":"明天九點半再說"},{"start":2119.78,"end":2120.78,"text":"可以 沒問題"},{"start":2120.78,"end":2121.78,"text":"我們三成化"},{"start":2121.78,"end":2123.78,"text":"好 我們補充一下"},{"start":2123.78,"end":2124.78,"text":"我們修正一下"},{"start":2124.78,"end":2126.78,"text":"因應沙特爾颱風來襲各黨團"},{"start":2126.78,"end":2129.78,"text":"同意8月28號星期五院會提前至27號"},{"start":2129.78,"end":2130.78,"text":"信息式開會"},{"start":2130.78,"end":2134.78,"text":"處理原定之無人載具相關條例制定案"},{"start":2134.78,"end":2135.78,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":2135.78,"end":2136.78,"text":"等議案"},{"start":2164.29,"end":2165.29,"text":"對 等議案"},{"start":2165.29,"end":2166.29,"text":"OK 好"},{"start":2211.52,"end":2213.52,"text":"謝謝各位黨團各位 我們開始進入"},{"start":2214.12,"end":2217.12,"text":"無人載具的採購特別條例的"},{"start":2217.12,"end":2219.12,"text":"我們朝野協商"},{"start":2219.12,"end":2222.12,"text":"我們先介紹所有到場的練習的官員"},{"start":2222.12,"end":2224.12,"text":"首先經濟部和次長"},{"start":2224.12,"end":2225.12,"text":"好 歡迎您"},{"start":2226.28,"end":2231.28,"text":"國家發展新國防部 顧部長 歡迎"},{"start":2231.28,"end":2234.28,"text":"國防會產業發展處的林參事"},{"start":2234.28,"end":2236.28,"text":"好 謝謝 歡迎"},{"start":2237.3,"end":2239.3,"text":"數位發展部的陳祖密"},{"start":2239.9,"end":2240.9,"text":"歡迎"},{"start":2241.2,"end":2244.2,"text":"交通部行政司的楊司長"},{"start":2244.2,"end":2245.2,"text":"好 歡迎您"},{"start":2248.57,"end":2250.57,"text":"公共工程委員會的謝處長"},{"start":2250.97,"end":2251.97,"text":"好 謝謝 歡迎"},{"start":2253.23,"end":2255.23,"text":"國科會的張會員"},{"start":2255.31,"end":2256.31,"text":"好 謝謝 歡迎"},{"start":2258.6,"end":2260.6,"text":"財政部國庫署的陳署長"},{"start":2261.21,"end":2262.21,"text":"好 歡迎"},{"start":2263.2,"end":2265.2,"text":"足跡總處公務預算處的吳委員"},{"start":2265.2,"end":2266.2,"text":"張會員 歡迎您"},{"start":2266.2,"end":2269.2,"text":"法務部的廖參事 歡迎"},{"start":2272.57,"end":2274.57,"text":"我們現在進行協商"},{"start":2274.57,"end":2277.57,"text":"本案於115年7月27日本院第11屆第五會期"},{"start":2277.57,"end":2279.57,"text":"經濟外交國防財政三委員會"},{"start":2279.57,"end":2281.57,"text":"第二次聯席會議進行審查"},{"start":2281.57,"end":2284.57,"text":"審查結論除宗嘉賓等21位委員提案"},{"start":2284.57,"end":2285.57,"text":"另定其審查外"},{"start":2285.57,"end":2289.57,"text":"其餘各條文及委員鄭政前等委員所提"},{"start":2289.57,"end":2291.57,"text":"修正動於軍保留送院會處理"},{"start":2291.57,"end":2294.57,"text":"需交由黨團協商"},{"start":2294.57,"end":2296.57,"text":"本案於115年8月20日"},{"start":2296.57,"end":2299.57,"text":"由台灣民眾黨團召集黨團協商"},{"start":2299.57,"end":2301.57,"text":"協商結果並無共識"},{"start":2302.15,"end":2303.15,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":2310.57,"end":2312.57,"text":"好 我們現在審查會條文保備了"},{"start":2312.57,"end":2314.57,"text":"從第一條行政院所提的法案名稱"},{"start":2314.57,"end":2318.57,"text":"國防自主無人載具防購特別條例"},{"start":2319.7,"end":2325.7,"text":"請不吝點贊訂閱轉發打賞支持明鏡與點點欄目"},{"start":2320.39,"end":2321.39,"text":"各位黨團幹部有意見嗎"},{"start":2321.39,"end":2323.39,"text":"連這個都沒辦法達成共識"},{"start":2327.31,"end":2330.31,"text":"沒有 我覺得保留權在於第一條行政院"},{"start":2338.3,"end":2340.3,"text":"院長我大概先講一下"},{"start":2341.2,"end":2344.2,"text":"大家都知道這兩步是不一樣的東西"},{"start":2344.2,"end":2346.2,"text":"一個在談特別預算"},{"start":2346.2,"end":2350.2,"text":"簡單講就是台灣國防自主建軍"},{"start":2350.2,"end":2352.2,"text":"包括無人機無人艇的購買"},{"start":2353.11,"end":2356.11,"text":"那另外這個國民黨團民眾黨團版本"},{"start":2356.11,"end":2358.11,"text":"是在談產業的發展"},{"start":2358.73,"end":2361.73,"text":"所以其實這兩個案子要併在一起"},{"start":2361.73,"end":2363.73,"text":"實在是難度非常的高"},{"start":2364.37,"end":2365.37,"text":"那所以呢"},{"start":2365.92,"end":2368.92,"text":"我的建議就是可能很多都要保留"},{"start":2368.92,"end":2370.92,"text":"可能都要先保留來處理"},{"start":2370.92,"end":2373.92,"text":"不然這個完全我們在講的是不一樣的事情"},{"start":2373.92,"end":2377.92,"text":"民進黨可以覺得國防建軍很重要"},{"start":2377.92,"end":2380.92,"text":"用特別預算穩定性的去採買"},{"start":2380.92,"end":2386.92,"text":"這兩千一百億的增防攻擊跟無人艇是重要的"},{"start":2386.92,"end":2391.92,"text":"但民進黨也覺得建構台灣無人機產業的自主性"},{"start":2391.92,"end":2393.92,"text":"我認為這個也是重要的"},{"start":2393.92,"end":2397.92,"text":"但是我們現在是把兩件事當一件事在處理"},{"start":2397.92,"end":2399.92,"text":"所以這個我覺得很難對得上"},{"start":2401.17,"end":2403.17,"text":"現在蔡總召已經先發言"},{"start":2403.17,"end":2407.17,"text":"是不是兩位台灣民眾黨團國民黨團是不是也要表達一下意見"},{"start":2407.17,"end":2408.17,"text":"請王委員請"},{"start":2409.14,"end":2412.14,"text":"好這個雖然跟蔡總召有講到這個事情了"},{"start":2412.14,"end":2416.14,"text":"不過台灣民眾黨我們的這個法案"},{"start":2416.14,"end":2420.14,"text":"基本上就是兼顧發展跟國防的自主"},{"start":2420.14,"end":2423.14,"text":"那我們要講的是就是我們現在本來"},{"start":2423.14,"end":2427.14,"text":"我們的這個法案名稱我們叫做無人機"},{"start":2427.14,"end":2428.14,"text":"經過我們這幾範圍的討論"},{"start":2428.14,"end":2432.14,"text":"我們是願意把它改成叫做無人載具"},{"start":2432.14,"end":2434.14,"text":"那剛剛大家如果我們改的這個名字"},{"start":2434.14,"end":2435.14,"text":"大家是不是可以接受"},{"start":2435.14,"end":2436.14,"text":"以上"},{"start":2437.56,"end":2440.56,"text":"國民黨團是不是要表達一下意見"},{"start":2440.56,"end":2442.56,"text":"台灣民眾黨團意思說他可以接受這個名稱"},{"start":2447.78,"end":2448.78,"text":"好許書長請"},{"start":2449.47,"end":2450.47,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2450.47,"end":2453.47,"text":"其實中國民黨的這個立場非常明確"},{"start":2453.47,"end":2456.47,"text":"就是說我們全力支持這個國防自主"},{"start":2456.47,"end":2459.47,"text":"但是我們也這個認為產業發展也相對重要"},{"start":2459.47,"end":2464.47,"text":"所以我們的這個建議的這個我們的名稱應該是"},{"start":2464.47,"end":2468.47,"text":"強化國防自主計無人載具的產業發展條例"},{"start":2468.47,"end":2470.47,"text":"而不是用特別條例"},{"start":2471.56,"end":2473.56,"text":"謝謝宇峻署長的發言"},{"start":2473.56,"end":2474.56,"text":"賴世鮑委員請發言"},{"start":2474.56,"end":2475.56,"text":"鍾嘉斌委員是不是要發言"},{"start":2475.56,"end":2476.56,"text":"我看你一直在看我"},{"start":2476.56,"end":2477.56,"text":"好你準備發言"},{"start":2477.56,"end":2480.56,"text":"謝謝韓院長其實各位先進了"},{"start":2480.56,"end":2483.56,"text":"那今天剛才蔡總召題的是一個根本的問題"},{"start":2484.67,"end":2486.67,"text":"就是說他提到的是"},{"start":2486.67,"end":2491.67,"text":"因為今天這個民進黨團的重點放在國務部的採購案這個地方"},{"start":2492.87,"end":2495.87,"text":"那國眾兩黨團是重點放在產業發展"},{"start":2495.87,"end":2498.87,"text":"那剛才你提到說這個非常重要"},{"start":2498.87,"end":2500.87,"text":"但不要忘了我們的院會最大"},{"start":2500.87,"end":2503.87,"text":"院會加班下來是經濟委員會主導"},{"start":2503.87,"end":2506.87,"text":"經濟委員會主導的意思就是要主導就是"},{"start":2506.87,"end":2511.87,"text":"怎麼樣讓我們的無人載具這個產業"},{"start":2511.87,"end":2512.87,"text":"在台灣落地生根"},{"start":2512.87,"end":2517.87,"text":"甚至於升級要打造所謂的第二座的復國生山"},{"start":2517.87,"end":2519.87,"text":"要打造第二座的復國生山"},{"start":2519.87,"end":2524.87,"text":"老實講我們現在的這個整個技術水平的提升就非常重要了"},{"start":2524.87,"end":2528.87,"text":"所以我個人小弟我就提的案子是說"},{"start":2529.76,"end":2531.76,"text":"這裡面如果要特別預算"},{"start":2531.76,"end":2532.76,"text":"那就是跟國外買"},{"start":2532.76,"end":2535.76,"text":"現在的國務部列的都是跟國內買"},{"start":2535.76,"end":2538.76,"text":"國內買21萬架的無人機"},{"start":2538.76,"end":2541.76,"text":"這裡面很多的專家都說真正的高階"},{"start":2541.76,"end":2543.76,"text":"高階跟低階區別在哪裡"},{"start":2543.76,"end":2545.76,"text":"高階他自己飛"},{"start":2545.76,"end":2546.76,"text":"你設幾個參數自己飛"},{"start":2546.76,"end":2548.76,"text":"你說我要飛到蘭嶼"},{"start":2548.76,"end":2550.76,"text":"他自己飛去蘭嶼"},{"start":2550.76,"end":2552.76,"text":"那這個所謂的低階是什麼意思"},{"start":2552.76,"end":2553.76,"text":"Remote control"},{"start":2553.76,"end":2555.76,"text":"就像電動玩具一樣"},{"start":2555.76,"end":2556.76,"text":"要自己來遙控的"},{"start":2556.76,"end":2558.76,"text":"那是低階"},{"start":2558.76,"end":2563.76,"text":"21萬架裡面2000架是高階其他都是低階"},{"start":2563.76,"end":2568.76,"text":"所以老實講對台灣的無人機產業的一個扶持非常重要"},{"start":2568.76,"end":2570.76,"text":"我們大家都覺得說非常重要"},{"start":2570.76,"end":2574.76,"text":"因此增加是跟國外買"},{"start":2574.76,"end":2575.76,"text":"但是一個前提"},{"start":2575.76,"end":2579.76,"text":"有條件式的這個特別預算去買"},{"start":2579.76,"end":2582.76,"text":"買的話要承諾技術輿轉"},{"start":2582.76,"end":2584.76,"text":"我怎麼樣承諾技術輿轉呢"},{"start":2584.76,"end":2586.76,"text":"就過去的offset一個機制"},{"start":2586.76,"end":2588.76,"text":"機制就非常重要"},{"start":2588.76,"end":2589.76,"text":"聯合工業"},{"start":2589.76,"end":2591.76,"text":"或者工業聯合都可以"},{"start":2591.76,"end":2593.76,"text":"offset"},{"start":2593.76,"end":2594.76,"text":"offset在過去都沒有做好"},{"start":2594.76,"end":2596.76,"text":"那我們今天是不是可以趁這個機會"},{"start":2596.76,"end":2598.76,"text":"如果要"},{"start":2598.76,"end":2600.76,"text":"那就用這個機會來把它技術升級"},{"start":2600.76,"end":2602.76,"text":"那我們整個其他的產業的發展"},{"start":2602.76,"end":2604.76,"text":"都有一些的鼓勵補貼"},{"start":2604.76,"end":2608.76,"text":"希望大家能夠投資無人載具的產業"},{"start":2608.76,"end":2611.76,"text":"那麼最後一點我要強調的一點是說"},{"start":2611.76,"end":2613.76,"text":"那今天的如果是國民"},{"start":2613.76,"end":2615.76,"text":"這個兩大黨團就是"},{"start":2617.04,"end":2619.04,"text":"就是民主黨跟國民黨"},{"start":2619.04,"end":2622.04,"text":"如果堅持說我一定只有一般預算的話"},{"start":2622.04,"end":2623.04,"text":"不要有特別預算"},{"start":2623.04,"end":2625.04,"text":"那就另外一件事情"},{"start":2625.04,"end":2628.04,"text":"那這個等於就沒有這個"},{"start":2628.04,"end":2630.04,"text":"我想簡單的就是做一個briefing"},{"start":2630.04,"end":2631.04,"text":"做一個啟動"},{"start":2631.04,"end":2633.04,"text":"好謝謝賴志寶委員"},{"start":2633.04,"end":2635.04,"text":"那個周家斌委員發言完畢"},{"start":2635.04,"end":2637.04,"text":"國防招委陳冠廷委員發言完畢"},{"start":2637.04,"end":2638.04,"text":"還有劉淑斌委員也來了"},{"start":2638.04,"end":2640.04,"text":"您現在黨團幹部發言完畢以後"},{"start":2640.04,"end":2642.04,"text":"練習的委員對這個案子有關心"},{"start":2642.04,"end":2643.04,"text":"可以發言"},{"start":2643.04,"end":2644.04,"text":"如果有人發言的話"},{"start":2644.04,"end":2645.04,"text":"你等一下準備發言"},{"start":2645.04,"end":2646.04,"text":"好 總委員請"},{"start":2646.04,"end":2648.04,"text":"好 謝謝院長的特別指明"},{"start":2648.04,"end":2651.04,"text":"目前我們這13個案當中"},{"start":2651.04,"end":2653.04,"text":"基本上就分成三類"},{"start":2653.04,"end":2655.04,"text":"第一類就是純採購"},{"start":2655.04,"end":2657.04,"text":"就是行政院滿的提案"},{"start":2657.04,"end":2659.04,"text":"還有賴志寶委員的提案"},{"start":2659.04,"end":2662.04,"text":"以及其他民進黨委員王定宇以外的提案"},{"start":2662.04,"end":2664.04,"text":"通通都是純採購"},{"start":2664.04,"end":2668.04,"text":"那另外是第二種是C類的"},{"start":2668.04,"end":2669.04,"text":"就是純發展的"},{"start":2669.04,"end":2671.04,"text":"就是民眾黨團的提案"},{"start":2671.04,"end":2673.04,"text":"以及賴志寶委員的另外一個提案"},{"start":2673.04,"end":2674.04,"text":"就是純發展的"},{"start":2674.5,"end":2676.5,"text":"但是如果是兩者並而合一的"},{"start":2676.5,"end":2678.5,"text":"就是國民黨的提案"},{"start":2678.5,"end":2680.5,"text":"有發展也有採購也有發展"},{"start":2680.5,"end":2682.5,"text":"或者是王定宇委員的"},{"start":2682.5,"end":2684.5,"text":"有採購有創建有發展"},{"start":2684.5,"end":2686.5,"text":"那麼是不是我們建議"},{"start":2686.5,"end":2689.5,"text":"因為剛剛蔡總召提到的"},{"start":2689.5,"end":2692.5,"text":"今天我們是不是先有一個預定"},{"start":2693.1,"end":2695.1,"text":"到底我們是要決定的是以採購為主"},{"start":2695.96,"end":2697.96,"text":"還是要以發展為主"},{"start":2698.56,"end":2700.56,"text":"或者是要有採購的金額在內"},{"start":2700.56,"end":2703.56,"text":"又要有產業所需要的建置"},{"start":2703.56,"end":2705.56,"text":"那我是簡單做一個這樣的分類"},{"start":2705.56,"end":2707.56,"text":"那供主席來參佐"},{"start":2707.56,"end":2709.56,"text":"也供各位黨團的幹部來判斷"},{"start":2709.56,"end":2711.56,"text":"我們很難一次討論13個版本"},{"start":2711.56,"end":2712.56,"text":"有這三種類型"},{"start":2712.56,"end":2714.56,"text":"因為這三種類型基本上"},{"start":2714.56,"end":2716.56,"text":"彼此之間有一點互斥性"},{"start":2716.56,"end":2718.56,"text":"以上建議"},{"start":2718.56,"end":2719.56,"text":"好謝謝總統委員"},{"start":2719.56,"end":2721.56,"text":"我先跟大家黨團幹部報告一下"},{"start":2721.56,"end":2723.56,"text":"明天開院會的協商結論"},{"start":2723.56,"end":2725.56,"text":"先進行完成黨團幹部的簽名"},{"start":2725.56,"end":2727.56,"text":"我們現在授權議事處"},{"start":2727.56,"end":2728.56,"text":"要先行發文"},{"start":2728.56,"end":2730.56,"text":"所以也麻煩各黨團幹部要通知"},{"start":2730.56,"end":2732.56,"text":"所有你們所屬的委員"},{"start":2732.56,"end":2733.56,"text":"明天早上9點開會"},{"start":2733.56,"end":2736.56,"text":"9點半黨團幹部集合開會"},{"start":2736.56,"end":2739.56,"text":"會前會10點整可能要進入表決"},{"start":2739.56,"end":2740.56,"text":"好陳冠廷委員請發言"},{"start":2740.56,"end":2742.56,"text":"那個劉樹斌委員請準備"},{"start":2742.56,"end":2743.56,"text":"謝謝院長喔"},{"start":2743.56,"end":2748.56,"text":"其實我剛才有聽到賴市保委員的一點善意"},{"start":2748.56,"end":2750.56,"text":"因為有特別提到特別預算"},{"start":2750.56,"end":2753.56,"text":"這在過去國民黨的這個黨團上面"},{"start":2753.56,"end":2755.56,"text":"是沒有談到這裡"},{"start":2755.56,"end":2757.56,"text":"那我要提出來就是說"},{"start":2758.84,"end":2759.84,"text":"那如果是特別預算"},{"start":2759.84,"end":2762.84,"text":"您剛剛說到主要是對外採購"},{"start":2762.84,"end":2763.84,"text":"那如果是"},{"start":2764.31,"end":2767.31,"text":"台灣與美方合資生產的"},{"start":2767.31,"end":2769.31,"text":"那是不是也能夠包含進去"},{"start":2769.31,"end":2770.31,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":2770.31,"end":2771.31,"text":"如果能夠這樣子的話"},{"start":2771.31,"end":2773.31,"text":"那我覺得這件事情就有曙光"},{"start":2773.31,"end":2775.31,"text":"因為我看到許多的"},{"start":2775.31,"end":2776.31,"text":"我們台灣自己本土的產業"},{"start":2776.31,"end":2778.31,"text":"現在基本上就是用"},{"start":2778.31,"end":2782.31,"text":"美方的這一個等於是大腦指控系統"},{"start":2782.31,"end":2784.31,"text":"控制系統指揮系統"},{"start":2784.31,"end":2786.31,"text":"但是是在台灣生產"},{"start":2786.31,"end":2787.31,"text":"有點這樣子的概念"},{"start":2787.31,"end":2789.31,"text":"那這個方面是不是可以考量進去"},{"start":2789.31,"end":2790.31,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":2790.31,"end":2792.31,"text":"那再來就是也很感謝"},{"start":2792.31,"end":2793.31,"text":"院長給我們這個機會"},{"start":2793.31,"end":2796.31,"text":"來跟所有的各黨團來去討論"},{"start":2796.31,"end":2797.31,"text":"第二點就是說"},{"start":2797.31,"end":2800.31,"text":"剛才中委員有提到發展跟採購"},{"start":2800.31,"end":2802.31,"text":"那我們之所以會有這個"},{"start":2802.31,"end":2804.31,"text":"2100億的特別預算"},{"start":2804.31,"end":2808.31,"text":"我們是先專注在這兩三年"},{"start":2808.31,"end":2809.31,"text":"甚至是"},{"start":2809.65,"end":2811.65,"text":"緊迫的可能會遇到的衝突的"},{"start":2811.65,"end":2813.65,"text":"危機的可能性"},{"start":2813.65,"end":2814.65,"text":"所以發展是發展"},{"start":2814.65,"end":2816.65,"text":"那採購是採購"},{"start":2816.65,"end":2817.65,"text":"我覺得這個可能要把它分開來說"},{"start":2817.65,"end":2819.65,"text":"特別是2100億裡面"},{"start":2819.65,"end":2821.65,"text":"你仔細看它的三大樣貌"},{"start":2821.65,"end":2822.65,"text":"都是濱海濱海濱海"},{"start":2822.65,"end":2824.65,"text":"不管是作戰還是堅持"},{"start":2824.65,"end":2825.65,"text":"那你就知道說這個"},{"start":2825.65,"end":2827.65,"text":"威脅是比較離我們比較近一點"},{"start":2827.65,"end":2829.65,"text":"所以2100億裡面之所以"},{"start":2829.65,"end":2832.65,"text":"要有快速取得武力的原因"},{"start":2832.65,"end":2833.65,"text":"是在這裡"},{"start":2833.65,"end":2834.65,"text":"我們當然知道"},{"start":2834.65,"end":2836.65,"text":"民眾黨也有提到發展的部分"},{"start":2836.65,"end":2838.65,"text":"但是快速取得這個能力的部分"},{"start":2838.65,"end":2840.65,"text":"我也是希望大家能夠考量進去"},{"start":2840.65,"end":2842.65,"text":"那我先簡單發言謝謝"},{"start":2842.65,"end":2843.65,"text":"劉樹斌委員請發言"},{"start":2843.65,"end":2844.65,"text":"黃建豪委員請準備"},{"start":2847.52,"end":2849.52,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":2849.52,"end":2851.52,"text":"我們民眾黨的版本"},{"start":2851.52,"end":2853.52,"text":"特別重視的是在"},{"start":2853.52,"end":2855.52,"text":"除了我們的發展之外"},{"start":2855.52,"end":2859.52,"text":"我們在新的未來要去提出來的"},{"start":2859.52,"end":2860.52,"text":"修正動議當中"},{"start":2860.52,"end":2863.52,"text":"其實會有把這個採購放進去"},{"start":2863.52,"end":2864.52,"text":"然後第二個部分"},{"start":2864.52,"end":2865.52,"text":"就是在於說"},{"start":2865.52,"end":2867.52,"text":"我們還是堅持是要用"},{"start":2867.52,"end":2869.52,"text":"一般的年度預算"},{"start":2869.52,"end":2871.52,"text":"這很重要的原因是在於說"},{"start":2871.52,"end":2873.52,"text":"美國的智庫都已經"},{"start":2873.52,"end":2874.52,"text":"跟我們在提醒到"},{"start":2874.52,"end":2876.52,"text":"因為無人機的"},{"start":2876.52,"end":2878.52,"text":"無人載具的發展的速度"},{"start":2878.52,"end":2879.52,"text":"非常迭代很快"},{"start":2879.52,"end":2882.52,"text":"如果你在這樣的六年時間"},{"start":2882.52,"end":2883.52,"text":"就把這個錢花下去的話"},{"start":2883.52,"end":2886.52,"text":"其實並沒有讓產業"},{"start":2886.52,"end":2889.52,"text":"有足夠的發展的時間點"},{"start":2889.52,"end":2890.52,"text":"然後讓它"},{"start":2890.52,"end":2892.52,"text":"尤其是用發展的部分"},{"start":2892.52,"end":2894.52,"text":"透過有一個像我們本身"},{"start":2894.52,"end":2896.52,"text":"有一個國家的戰略"},{"start":2896.52,"end":2898.52,"text":"無人載具的發展委員會"},{"start":2898.52,"end":2899.52,"text":"戰略發展委員會"},{"start":2899.52,"end":2900.52,"text":"他們做一個指引"},{"start":2900.52,"end":2902.52,"text":"然後讓它去引導說"},{"start":2902.52,"end":2904.52,"text":"整個的一個無人機的產業"},{"start":2904.52,"end":2906.52,"text":"包括的是在整個國防的部分"},{"start":2906.52,"end":2907.52,"text":"自主是怎麼進行的"},{"start":2907.52,"end":2909.52,"text":"有了這樣子的一個"},{"start":2909.52,"end":2911.52,"text":"發展引導之後呢"},{"start":2911.52,"end":2914.52,"text":"後續的用年度的預算去進行"},{"start":2914.52,"end":2916.52,"text":"包括的是我們現在可能"},{"start":2916.52,"end":2917.52,"text":"要加進去的"},{"start":2917.52,"end":2918.52,"text":"一定會加進去的就是"},{"start":2918.52,"end":2920.52,"text":"現在發展跟採購的就是沒有問題"},{"start":2920.52,"end":2922.52,"text":"所以我們會堅持是"},{"start":2922.52,"end":2924.52,"text":"有一套整套的一個做法"},{"start":2924.52,"end":2925.52,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2925.52,"end":2926.52,"text":"我們現在台中市選出的"},{"start":2926.52,"end":2927.52,"text":"黃建豪委員"},{"start":2927.52,"end":2928.52,"text":"你們產業你請表達意見"},{"start":2929.8,"end":2931.8,"text":"好謝謝院長跟各位這個先進的"},{"start":2931.8,"end":2933.8,"text":"的各同人喔"},{"start":2933.6,"end":2935.6,"text":"我想承認剛剛周院委員之言喔"},{"start":2935.6,"end":2937.6,"text":"確實今天版本有分三種"},{"start":2937.6,"end":2939.6,"text":"我想這大家有共識"},{"start":2939.6,"end":2941.6,"text":"那三種裡面國民黨版本是包含發展跟採購"},{"start":2941.6,"end":2943.6,"text":"所以我要強調其實你提到沒錯"},{"start":2943.6,"end":2945.6,"text":"就是國民黨的版本是有採購"},{"start":2945.6,"end":2947.6,"text":"按照第15條的規範"},{"start":2947.6,"end":2948.6,"text":"它其實是編了2400億"},{"start":2948.6,"end":2949.6,"text":"然後只是分年編列"},{"start":2949.6,"end":2951.6,"text":"那為什麼要分年長期的編列"},{"start":2951.6,"end":2952.6,"text":"所謂的2400億"},{"start":2952.6,"end":2954.6,"text":"也是因為過去大家討論說"},{"start":2954.6,"end":2955.6,"text":"我們學校無人機只能夠發展"},{"start":2955.6,"end":2958.6,"text":"是要有一個長期穩定的政策能夠支撐"},{"start":2958.6,"end":2960.6,"text":"所以才會有這樣子的編排方式"},{"start":2960.6,"end":2962.6,"text":"那再來提到本土產業"},{"start":2962.6,"end":2963.6,"text":"我們不斷強調說"},{"start":2963.6,"end":2964.6,"text":"除了對外採購之外"},{"start":2964.6,"end":2966.6,"text":"更重要是國內的產業怎麼樣能夠"},{"start":2966.6,"end":2969.6,"text":"跟上這一波能夠扶植國內的產業"},{"start":2969.6,"end":2971.6,"text":"所以我們特別在條例裡面"},{"start":2971.6,"end":2973.6,"text":"要求說在發展國內產業部分"},{"start":2973.6,"end":2975.6,"text":"本土化的比例各要多少"},{"start":2975.6,"end":2977.6,"text":"那當然後續在細則部分"},{"start":2977.6,"end":2978.6,"text":"要怎麼討論說"},{"start":2978.6,"end":2981.6,"text":"本土化是要純台資交本土化"},{"start":2981.6,"end":2982.6,"text":"還是"},{"start":2983.09,"end":2986.09,"text":"台灣的廠商跟國外合資廠商也算本土化"},{"start":2986.09,"end":2988.09,"text":"這個細節我覺得後續大家可以討論"},{"start":2988.09,"end":2990.09,"text":"但是我覺得國民黨的版本是比較完整"},{"start":2990.09,"end":2991.09,"text":"是一致性的溝通說"},{"start":2991.09,"end":2992.09,"text":"第一個我也沒有反對你採購"},{"start":2992.09,"end":2994.09,"text":"就是我們也是支持採購"},{"start":2994.09,"end":2997.09,"text":"並沒有反對說不能買那三型的這個無人機"},{"start":2997.09,"end":2999.09,"text":"而是包含但並不限於"},{"start":2999.09,"end":3002.09,"text":"所以如果未來戰爭或是未來產業有其他需求"},{"start":3002.09,"end":3003.09,"text":"也可以買別的東西"},{"start":3003.09,"end":3006.09,"text":"那只是說我先把錢先匡列出來而已"},{"start":3006.09,"end":3008.09,"text":"所以這件事兩件事我認為並不充足"},{"start":3008.09,"end":3010.09,"text":"那同時間又能夠兼顧產業發展"},{"start":3010.09,"end":3013.09,"text":"我想產業發展對於所有的產業量是最重要的事情"},{"start":3013.09,"end":3015.09,"text":"不管今天要用特別條例"},{"start":3015.09,"end":3017.09,"text":"還是用一般預算還是用特別預算"},{"start":3017.09,"end":3020.09,"text":"最重要是我們的產業怎麼樣加入這個行業"},{"start":3020.09,"end":3021.09,"text":"我覺得這是最重要的事情"},{"start":3021.09,"end":3022.09,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":3022.09,"end":3024.09,"text":"好謝謝黃金豪委"},{"start":3024.09,"end":3026.09,"text":"那個洪宇祥委員請問一下你等一下要不要發言"},{"start":3026.09,"end":3027.09,"text":"因為莊律師委員發言完"},{"start":3027.09,"end":3028.09,"text":"國防部要不要來一件"},{"start":3028.09,"end":3029.09,"text":"你要不要發言"},{"start":3029.09,"end":3030.09,"text":"好"},{"start":3030.09,"end":3032.09,"text":"我們現在請莊律師委員發言完以後"},{"start":3032.09,"end":3034.09,"text":"請洪宇祥委員發言"},{"start":3034.85,"end":3036.85,"text":"好謝謝院長"},{"start":3036.85,"end":3042.85,"text":"今天真的是聽完前面幾位各黨團的代表發言以後"},{"start":3042.85,"end":3044.85,"text":"其實我蠻敬佩"},{"start":3044.85,"end":3046.85,"text":"大家今天的態度就非常開放"},{"start":3046.85,"end":3049.85,"text":"所以我一直在讀韓院長的心思"},{"start":3049.85,"end":3051.85,"text":"今天有沒有辦法到最後來達成"},{"start":3051.85,"end":3052.85,"text":"第一個"},{"start":3053.9,"end":3055.9,"text":"我剛剛聽了賴斯巴委員的發言"},{"start":3055.9,"end":3056.9,"text":"我為什麼說表達敬佩"},{"start":3056.9,"end":3058.9,"text":"其實他從他的版本裡面"},{"start":3058.9,"end":3059.9,"text":"他有兩個版本"},{"start":3059.9,"end":3061.9,"text":"他一個版本"},{"start":3061.9,"end":3063.9,"text":"在整個國防自主的部分"},{"start":3063.9,"end":3065.9,"text":"國防採購的部分"},{"start":3065.9,"end":3067.9,"text":"有43個人簽名"},{"start":3067.9,"end":3069.9,"text":"那43個人國民黨的委員來簽名"},{"start":3069.9,"end":3071.9,"text":"這個是特別條例"},{"start":3071.9,"end":3073.9,"text":"扣掉院長副院長"},{"start":3075.3,"end":3077.3,"text":"慣例上不連署"},{"start":3077.3,"end":3079.3,"text":"像我們民進黨黨團三長"},{"start":3079.3,"end":3080.3,"text":"我們也不連署"},{"start":3080.3,"end":3082.3,"text":"國民黨支持特別條例"},{"start":3082.74,"end":3084.74,"text":"98"},{"start":3084.26,"end":3086.26,"text":"90"},{"start":3085.39,"end":3087.39,"text":"黃教委員剛也提到了"},{"start":3087.39,"end":3089.39,"text":"我也很敬佩"},{"start":3089.39,"end":3091.39,"text":"特別條例也很好"},{"start":3091.39,"end":3093.39,"text":"然後年度預算的"},{"start":3093.39,"end":3095.39,"text":"變略的產業發展的都支持"},{"start":3095.39,"end":3096.39,"text":"也很好"},{"start":3096.39,"end":3098.39,"text":"所以我就覺得非常好"},{"start":3098.39,"end":3100.39,"text":"氣氛到現在都非常好"},{"start":3100.39,"end":3102.39,"text":"那剛我看了"},{"start":3102.39,"end":3103.39,"text":"黃委員提到"},{"start":3103.39,"end":3105.39,"text":"把台灣民眾黨的版本"},{"start":3105.39,"end":3107.39,"text":"無人機的部分變無人載具"},{"start":3107.39,"end":3108.39,"text":"這個也非常好"},{"start":3108.39,"end":3110.39,"text":"無人載具變成空中的也有"},{"start":3110.39,"end":3111.39,"text":"地面的也有"},{"start":3111.39,"end":3114.39,"text":"然後你在整個水下的都有"},{"start":3114.39,"end":3116.39,"text":"已經達成共識了"},{"start":3116.39,"end":3117.39,"text":"那我們是不是說"},{"start":3117.39,"end":3119.39,"text":"這個先不要保留"},{"start":3119.39,"end":3120.39,"text":"因為我們一般在講保留"},{"start":3120.39,"end":3122.39,"text":"就是說要馬上做處理了"},{"start":3122.39,"end":3124.39,"text":"因為我們先"},{"start":3124.39,"end":3126.39,"text":"暫時先這一個部分"},{"start":3126.39,"end":3128.39,"text":"回到後面回來"},{"start":3128.39,"end":3131.39,"text":"搞不好會產生一個共識也不一定"},{"start":3131.39,"end":3132.39,"text":"民主經文黨在這個地方"},{"start":3132.39,"end":3134.39,"text":"要特別強調"},{"start":3134.39,"end":3136.39,"text":"每一個版本所提出來"},{"start":3137.28,"end":3139.28,"text":"馬上就冠上國防自主"},{"start":3140.03,"end":3142.03,"text":"大家都在講國防自主"},{"start":3142.03,"end":3144.03,"text":"那其他的條文什麼主管機關"},{"start":3144.03,"end":3145.03,"text":"都放在經濟部的"},{"start":3145.03,"end":3146.03,"text":"不在這個條文裡面"},{"start":3146.03,"end":3147.03,"text":"我就先不講了"},{"start":3147.03,"end":3148.03,"text":"那我的意思就是說"},{"start":3148.03,"end":3151.03,"text":"既然大家的條文名稱"},{"start":3151.03,"end":3153.03,"text":"都是在講國防自主"},{"start":3153.46,"end":3154.46,"text":"無人載具"},{"start":3155.49,"end":3156.49,"text":"你要國防自主"},{"start":3157.68,"end":3159.68,"text":"只要不把國防部"},{"start":3160.68,"end":3162.68,"text":"他所要採購的部分"},{"start":3162.68,"end":3163.68,"text":"丟包"},{"start":3163.98,"end":3164.98,"text":"對於國民黨"},{"start":3164.98,"end":3166.98,"text":"台灣民眾黨所提出來所有的"},{"start":3166.98,"end":3168.98,"text":"無人機產業的部分"},{"start":3168.98,"end":3170.98,"text":"民主經文黨我們全部表達支持"},{"start":3171.77,"end":3173.77,"text":"大家都很開放"},{"start":3173.77,"end":3175.77,"text":"就是說你既然的條例"},{"start":3176.58,"end":3178.58,"text":"我們不要欺騙社會"},{"start":3178.58,"end":3179.58,"text":"我們跟社會說"},{"start":3179.58,"end":3180.58,"text":"我們現在三棟"},{"start":3180.58,"end":3182.58,"text":"掛出來都叫做國防自主"},{"start":3182.58,"end":3184.58,"text":"然後到最後把國防部"},{"start":3184.58,"end":3185.58,"text":"他要買的"},{"start":3185.58,"end":3187.58,"text":"要馬上快速的形成戰力"},{"start":3187.58,"end":3189.58,"text":"不對稱戰力的一個行程"},{"start":3189.58,"end":3190.58,"text":"我們把它做一個丟包"},{"start":3190.58,"end":3192.58,"text":"這樣就不好了"},{"start":3192.58,"end":3194.58,"text":"賴委員所提到的是說"},{"start":3194.58,"end":3196.58,"text":"採購的部分是高階"},{"start":3196.58,"end":3199.58,"text":"高中低這個都可以討論"},{"start":3199.58,"end":3202.58,"text":"但至少我們也看到國民黨"},{"start":3202.58,"end":3204.58,"text":"有將近九成的人認為說"},{"start":3204.58,"end":3206.58,"text":"特別條例是可以考慮的"},{"start":3206.58,"end":3208.58,"text":"民進黨也表達非常善意"},{"start":3208.58,"end":3210.58,"text":"你要做產業支持的部分都不會"},{"start":3211.95,"end":3212.95,"text":"國家來支持"},{"start":3212.95,"end":3214.95,"text":"到最後另外一座護國神山"},{"start":3214.95,"end":3216.95,"text":"那三黨因為這樣的一個"},{"start":3216.95,"end":3218.95,"text":"對於無人機無人載具的部分"},{"start":3218.95,"end":3220.95,"text":"剛開始大家會有分身看法"},{"start":3220.95,"end":3221.95,"text":"會有所不同"},{"start":3221.95,"end":3223.95,"text":"可是經過這樣的大家攻防完以後"},{"start":3223.95,"end":3224.95,"text":"很好啊"},{"start":3224.95,"end":3225.95,"text":"產業也要發展"},{"start":3225.95,"end":3227.95,"text":"但是要發展產業的時候"},{"start":3227.95,"end":3229.95,"text":"不要忘記你整個條例"},{"start":3229.95,"end":3230.95,"text":"每一個版本到現在"},{"start":3230.95,"end":3232.95,"text":"我相信到最後還會再提出"},{"start":3232.95,"end":3234.95,"text":"修正動議"},{"start":3234.95,"end":3236.95,"text":"那既然都是要國防自主的話"},{"start":3236.95,"end":3238.95,"text":"國防部要下的這裡"},{"start":3238.95,"end":3239.95,"text":"不要讓它那麼難"},{"start":3239.95,"end":3241.95,"text":"這個國家大家一起的"},{"start":3241.95,"end":3242.95,"text":"大家說要國防自主"},{"start":3242.95,"end":3243.95,"text":"那我們再到最後"},{"start":3243.95,"end":3244.95,"text":"就把它給丟包的話"},{"start":3244.95,"end":3245.95,"text":"這個就沒道理了"},{"start":3245.95,"end":3246.95,"text":"以上"},{"start":3247.73,"end":3248.73,"text":"謝謝中央新聞委員會"},{"start":3248.73,"end":3249.73,"text":"那侯曉雯發言完畢"},{"start":3249.73,"end":3251.73,"text":"范雲委員舉手請發言"},{"start":3251.73,"end":3252.73,"text":"請您發言完畢"},{"start":3252.73,"end":3253.73,"text":"有請范委員好請"},{"start":3253.73,"end":3255.73,"text":"好 我想這個"},{"start":3255.73,"end":3257.73,"text":"因為我擔任這個金輪召委"},{"start":3257.73,"end":3259.73,"text":"在出審的時候"},{"start":3259.73,"end":3262.73,"text":"我們也歷經8小時的討論"},{"start":3262.73,"end":3265.73,"text":"所以基本上各個14個版本"},{"start":3265.73,"end":3268.73,"text":"除了中委員還留在委員會"},{"start":3268.73,"end":3269.73,"text":"他也參與"},{"start":3269.73,"end":3271.73,"text":"所以基本上我覺得"},{"start":3271.73,"end":3273.73,"text":"雙方三個黨派的話"},{"start":3273.73,"end":3275.73,"text":"基本上的一些差異"},{"start":3275.73,"end":3276.73,"text":"我想都很清楚"},{"start":3276.73,"end":3278.73,"text":"那本黨團還是堅持"},{"start":3278.73,"end":3280.73,"text":"所謂的年度預算"},{"start":3280.73,"end":3281.73,"text":"不編入特別預算"},{"start":3281.73,"end":3283.73,"text":"第二個我們也不會去把"},{"start":3283.73,"end":3285.73,"text":"這一個所謂的國防部"},{"start":3285.73,"end":3287.73,"text":"要採購的東西給丟包"},{"start":3287.73,"end":3289.73,"text":"我想這個在我們後續的"},{"start":3289.73,"end":3291.73,"text":"一些的討論"},{"start":3291.73,"end":3292.73,"text":"我們也認為說"},{"start":3292.73,"end":3294.73,"text":"這個絕對不是會丟包的"},{"start":3294.73,"end":3295.73,"text":"一個項目"},{"start":3295.73,"end":3297.73,"text":"那第三個就是說"},{"start":3298.84,"end":3300.84,"text":"國防部在講的時候"},{"start":3300.84,"end":3302.84,"text":"整個無人載具的產業"},{"start":3303.11,"end":3305.11,"text":"我們跟院長到美國去"},{"start":3305.11,"end":3307.11,"text":"我們也就是要國防自主"},{"start":3307.11,"end":3309.11,"text":"你要國內的供應鏈產業升級"},{"start":3309.11,"end":3311.11,"text":"自主化的一個生產"},{"start":3311.11,"end":3313.11,"text":"那因此我認為在這一個"},{"start":3313.11,"end":3315.11,"text":"經濟部來主導這樣的"},{"start":3315.11,"end":3317.11,"text":"產業升級發展"},{"start":3317.11,"end":3319.11,"text":"國防部提出來的採購"},{"start":3319.11,"end":3321.11,"text":"那基本上就是一個需求規格"},{"start":3321.11,"end":3323.11,"text":"所以這個邏輯上是很清楚的"},{"start":3323.11,"end":3325.11,"text":"那也才能夠這樣子"},{"start":3325.11,"end":3327.11,"text":"我們才能做到這個所謂的"},{"start":3327.11,"end":3329.11,"text":"信任的供應鏈"},{"start":3329.11,"end":3331.11,"text":"我們才有辦法去做到"},{"start":3331.11,"end":3333.11,"text":"產業的一個自主化的一個發展"},{"start":3333.11,"end":3335.11,"text":"那甚至我們也納入說"},{"start":3335.11,"end":3337.11,"text":"非軍規的一個部分"},{"start":3337.11,"end":3339.11,"text":"我們其他各部會對於非軍規的"},{"start":3339.11,"end":3341.11,"text":"無人載具的一個使用"},{"start":3341.11,"end":3343.11,"text":"這個也可以納入"},{"start":3343.11,"end":3345.11,"text":"這個所謂的共同供應採購契約"},{"start":3345.11,"end":3347.11,"text":"沒有說一定"},{"start":3347.11,"end":3349.11,"text":"但是我覺得讓他們產生一個"},{"start":3349.11,"end":3351.11,"text":"高效能國產自主化的"},{"start":3351.11,"end":3353.11,"text":"無人載具大概是我們本黨團的主要目的"},{"start":3353.11,"end":3355.11,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3355.11,"end":3357.11,"text":"好謝謝洪昭基委員"},{"start":3357.11,"end":3359.11,"text":"翻譯委員請剪短謝謝"},{"start":3359.22,"end":3361.22,"text":"我想我們今天為什麼會有這個特別條例"},{"start":3361.22,"end":3363.22,"text":"完全是因為"},{"start":3363.22,"end":3365.22,"text":"之前的1.25兆"},{"start":3365.22,"end":3367.22,"text":"關於無人機、無人艇的部分"},{"start":3367.22,"end":3369.22,"text":"完全被刪除"},{"start":3369.22,"end":3371.22,"text":"那為什麼要特別條例"},{"start":3371.22,"end":3373.22,"text":"因為這件事情是國防的建制"},{"start":3373.22,"end":3375.22,"text":"非常的急"},{"start":3375.05,"end":3377.05,"text":"我們民主的盟友都在看"},{"start":3377.05,"end":3379.05,"text":"我們到底有沒有要即刻補上這一塊"},{"start":3379.05,"end":3381.05,"text":"那所以我現在很擔心"},{"start":3381.05,"end":3383.05,"text":"時程的問題"},{"start":3383.05,"end":3385.05,"text":"因為如果是特別條例"},{"start":3385.05,"end":3387.05,"text":"原本行政院版的條文"},{"start":3387.05,"end":3389.05,"text":"通過之後即刻就可以去採購"},{"start":3389.05,"end":3391.05,"text":"那我們的做法是採購"},{"start":3391.05,"end":3393.05,"text":"帶動就是說產業"},{"start":3393.05,"end":3395.05,"text":"那你們是產業為主"},{"start":3395.05,"end":3397.05,"text":"這個有點離貓換太子"},{"start":3397.05,"end":3399.05,"text":"就是問A然後給B"},{"start":3399.05,"end":3401.05,"text":"那你現在說要來包這個採購"},{"start":3401.05,"end":3403.05,"text":"可是你們的條例"},{"start":3403.05,"end":3405.05,"text":"這一條就是說"},{"start":3405.05,"end":3407.05,"text":"要通過後六個月"},{"start":3407.05,"end":3409.05,"text":"所以我想請問部長"},{"start":3409.05,"end":3411.05,"text":"如果用這個部分的話"},{"start":3411.05,"end":3413.05,"text":"是不是那個非常急的那三款"},{"start":3413.05,"end":3415.05,"text":"就像你寫進去之後也是來不及不見"},{"start":3415.05,"end":3417.05,"text":"謝謝因為等一下國防部長會說明"},{"start":3417.05,"end":3419.05,"text":"不過你跟專委員的論述"},{"start":3419.05,"end":3421.05,"text":"好像差異很大"},{"start":3421.05,"end":3423.05,"text":"國防你跟專委員通過檔案"},{"start":3423.05,"end":3425.05,"text":"就完全是南轅北轍"},{"start":3425.05,"end":3427.05,"text":"那個麻煩請國防部顧部長"},{"start":3427.05,"end":3429.05,"text":"請表達一下意見好嗎謝謝"},{"start":3429.05,"end":3431.05,"text":"經濟部請準備"},{"start":3430.97,"end":3434.97,"text":"我想行政院版的版本我們已經提出來"},{"start":3434.97,"end":3436.97,"text":"大家都已經看過了"},{"start":3436.97,"end":3438.97,"text":"現在因為有十幾個版本"},{"start":3438.97,"end":3440.97,"text":"那我想我們國防部"},{"start":3440.97,"end":3444.97,"text":"就先以各個國民黨版的這個部分"},{"start":3444.97,"end":3446.97,"text":"我想我們最"},{"start":3446.97,"end":3448.97,"text":"希望大家能夠"},{"start":3448.97,"end":3450.97,"text":"給予國防部支持的就是第二條"},{"start":3452.42,"end":3454.42,"text":"第15條跟第16條"},{"start":3454.42,"end":3456.42,"text":"就是這三條"},{"start":3456.77,"end":3458.77,"text":"那第二條呢"},{"start":3458.77,"end":3460.77,"text":"就是講到說"},{"start":3460.77,"end":3462.77,"text":"主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":3462.77,"end":3464.77,"text":"那我們是不是能夠說"},{"start":3464.77,"end":3466.77,"text":"本條例是主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":3466.77,"end":3470.77,"text":"但是涉及國防軍用採購事項呢"},{"start":3470.77,"end":3472.77,"text":"是國防部"},{"start":3472.53,"end":3474.53,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":3473.95,"end":3475.95,"text":"國民黨版的條文我再講一遍"},{"start":3475.95,"end":3477.95,"text":"就是說第二條的部分是"},{"start":3477.95,"end":3479.95,"text":"本條例是主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":3479.95,"end":3481.95,"text":"那因為國民黨版也有"},{"start":3481.95,"end":3483.95,"text":"涉及到採購的部分"},{"start":3483.95,"end":3485.95,"text":"所以我們是不是就是說"},{"start":3485.95,"end":3487.95,"text":"能夠將本條例"},{"start":3487.95,"end":3489.95,"text":"的主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":3489.95,"end":3491.95,"text":"另外鬥點"},{"start":3491.95,"end":3493.95,"text":"涉及國防軍用採購事項"},{"start":3493.95,"end":3495.95,"text":"為國防部"},{"start":3495.95,"end":3497.95,"text":"就是說第二條的部分這個是"},{"start":3497.95,"end":3499.95,"text":"請各位能夠斟酌"},{"start":3499.95,"end":3501.95,"text":"那"},{"start":3503.69,"end":3505.69,"text":"對那再來最重要就是"},{"start":3505.69,"end":3507.69,"text":"第15條跟第16條"},{"start":3507.69,"end":3509.69,"text":"那我在這邊跟各位說明一下"},{"start":3509.69,"end":3511.69,"text":"因為國民黨"},{"start":3511.69,"end":3513.69,"text":"黨版的這個無人採據的"},{"start":3513.69,"end":3515.69,"text":"定義啊相當的"},{"start":3517.14,"end":3519.14,"text":"相當的寬"},{"start":3519.11,"end":3521.11,"text":"我再說明一下"},{"start":3521.11,"end":3523.11,"text":"國民黨的第三條"},{"start":3523.11,"end":3525.11,"text":"無人採據的部分呢"},{"start":3525.98,"end":3527.98,"text":"簡單講呢就是說"},{"start":3527.98,"end":3529.98,"text":"它是包括了天上"},{"start":3529.98,"end":3531.98,"text":"飛的水面"},{"start":3531.98,"end":3533.98,"text":"跑的水下"},{"start":3533.98,"end":3535.98,"text":"淺的還有"},{"start":3535.98,"end":3537.98,"text":"地面上面的"},{"start":3538.63,"end":3540.63,"text":"蘇伊沃特"},{"start":3540.98,"end":3542.98,"text":"就這些相關的部分我跟"},{"start":3542.98,"end":3544.98,"text":"各位做一個報告"},{"start":3544.98,"end":3546.98,"text":"如果我們將"},{"start":3546.98,"end":3548.98,"text":"這所有的無人採據都包含進去的話"},{"start":3550.83,"end":3552.83,"text":"我們不包含我們現在提出的"},{"start":3552.83,"end":3554.83,"text":"濱海監偵刑、濱海打擊刑"},{"start":3554.83,"end":3556.83,"text":"跟小型自殺無人艇的部分"},{"start":3556.83,"end":3558.83,"text":"我們在明年"},{"start":3558.83,"end":3560.83,"text":"也就是我們行政院"},{"start":3560.83,"end":3562.83,"text":"已經通過的明年度的"},{"start":3562.83,"end":3564.83,"text":"年度預算"},{"start":3564.83,"end":3566.83,"text":"明年度的年度預算"},{"start":3566.83,"end":3568.83,"text":"在無人採據這個部分就已經"},{"start":3568.83,"end":3570.83,"text":"311億了"},{"start":3570.73,"end":3572.73,"text":"比如說我們已經跟美國買了"},{"start":3572.73,"end":3574.73,"text":"MQ-9B的高高空無人機"},{"start":3574.73,"end":3576.73,"text":"我們有的瑞淵2"},{"start":3576.73,"end":3578.73,"text":"無人機等等"},{"start":3578.73,"end":3580.73,"text":"我們有垂直起向無人機等等"},{"start":3580.73,"end":3582.73,"text":"這些相關的這些所有的"},{"start":3582.73,"end":3584.73,"text":"無人機"},{"start":3584.73,"end":3586.73,"text":"無人採據的部分"},{"start":3586.73,"end":3588.73,"text":"在我們明年度的116人"},{"start":3588.73,"end":3590.73,"text":"就已經占了310億"},{"start":3590.73,"end":3592.73,"text":"那我要說這一點的意思是因為"},{"start":3592.95,"end":3593.45,"text":"呃"},{"start":3593.97,"end":3597.97,"text":"那個在上次委員會在討論的時候呢"},{"start":3597.97,"end":3599.97,"text":"國民黨有在提出一個"},{"start":3599.97,"end":3601.97,"text":"修正動議"},{"start":3601.97,"end":3603.97,"text":"將第三條的無人採據的定義"},{"start":3603.97,"end":3605.97,"text":"呃又放得更寬了"},{"start":3605.97,"end":3607.97,"text":"哈"},{"start":3607.59,"end":3609.59,"text":"他是講說不管是操作或"},{"start":3609.59,"end":3611.59,"text":"進行不虛人"},{"start":3612.48,"end":3616.48,"text":"不虛人去承載於機器本體"},{"start":3616.48,"end":3618.48,"text":"可以遙控的自主控制的"},{"start":3618.48,"end":3620.48,"text":"或其他方式運作於"},{"start":3620.48,"end":3622.48,"text":"空中的水面的水下的地面"},{"start":3622.48,"end":3624.48,"text":"或其他環境的無人採據"},{"start":3624.48,"end":3626.48,"text":"用途包括兼真的木"},{"start":3626.48,"end":3628.48,"text":"或攻擊的後勤的運輸"},{"start":3628.48,"end":3630.48,"text":"通訊的中計電子作戰"},{"start":3630.48,"end":3632.48,"text":"誘餌掃雷"},{"start":3632.48,"end":3634.48,"text":"布雷或其他任務等等"},{"start":3634.48,"end":3636.48,"text":"這些都放在無人採據"},{"start":3636.48,"end":3638.48,"text":"那我要說明的只是說"},{"start":3638.48,"end":3640.48,"text":"第15條"},{"start":3640.98,"end":3642.98,"text":"第15條"},{"start":3642.98,"end":3644.98,"text":"就是說抱歉我只有花一點"},{"start":3644.98,"end":3646.98,"text":"第15條國民黨版的"},{"start":3646.98,"end":3648.98,"text":"第15條"},{"start":3648.98,"end":3650.98,"text":"國民黨版的版本就是有提到說"},{"start":3650.98,"end":3652.98,"text":"為建立長期穩定的"},{"start":3652.98,"end":3654.98,"text":"無人採據產業發展及國防建設機制"},{"start":3654.98,"end":3656.98,"text":"持續推動"},{"start":3656.98,"end":3658.98,"text":"無人採據的產業發展"},{"start":3658.98,"end":3660.98,"text":"強化國防自主能量"},{"start":3660.98,"end":3662.98,"text":"建構安全可信任的供應鏈體積"},{"start":3662.98,"end":3664.98,"text":"提升國際競爭力好"},{"start":3664.98,"end":3666.98,"text":"那下面這就是重點了"},{"start":3666.98,"end":3668.98,"text":"中央政府應循年度"},{"start":3668.98,"end":3670.98,"text":"年度預算整形每年編列"},{"start":3670.98,"end":3672.98,"text":"新台幣400億元連續編列"},{"start":3672.98,"end":3674.98,"text":"6年總額新台幣為"},{"start":3674.98,"end":3676.98,"text":"2400億元"},{"start":3676.98,"end":3678.98,"text":"我只是要跟各位"},{"start":3678.98,"end":3680.98,"text":"做一個報告就是說"},{"start":3680.98,"end":3682.98,"text":"如果按照國民黨版的"},{"start":3682.98,"end":3684.98,"text":"這個無人採據的這樣的"},{"start":3684.98,"end":3686.98,"text":"定義的話呢"},{"start":3686.98,"end":3688.98,"text":"每年編列400億元"},{"start":3688.98,"end":3690.98,"text":"來看的話"},{"start":3690.98,"end":3692.98,"text":"事實上是不足的"},{"start":3692.98,"end":3694.98,"text":"因為"},{"start":3694.98,"end":3696.98,"text":"這個要請各位"},{"start":3696.98,"end":3698.98,"text":"能夠理解"},{"start":3698.98,"end":3700.98,"text":"那這個400億元"},{"start":3700.98,"end":3702.98,"text":"它在第16條"},{"start":3702.98,"end":3704.98,"text":"國民黨版的第16條"},{"start":3704.98,"end":3706.98,"text":"它講說這個400億元的"},{"start":3706.98,"end":3708.98,"text":"預算的支用是"},{"start":3708.98,"end":3710.98,"text":"所有的軍用無人採據的"},{"start":3710.98,"end":3712.98,"text":"採購產製維修工程及訓練"},{"start":3712.98,"end":3714.98,"text":"那也包括了"},{"start":3714.98,"end":3716.98,"text":"軍民共用測試場域的"},{"start":3716.98,"end":3718.98,"text":"設置及委運費用"},{"start":3718.98,"end":3720.98,"text":"也包括了"},{"start":3720.98,"end":3722.98,"text":"產業聚落發展及"},{"start":3722.98,"end":3724.98,"text":"中小企業的特別輔助"},{"start":3724.98,"end":3726.98,"text":"也就是說這400億元是包括了"},{"start":3726.98,"end":3728.98,"text":"所有我們軍用"},{"start":3728.98,"end":3730.98,"text":"要買的所有的無人採據"},{"start":3730.98,"end":3732.98,"text":"也包括了軍民共用的"},{"start":3732.98,"end":3734.98,"text":"測試場域"},{"start":3734.98,"end":3736.98,"text":"也包括了經濟部要來去做"},{"start":3736.98,"end":3738.98,"text":"產業聚落發展跟中小企業的特別輔助"},{"start":3738.98,"end":3740.98,"text":"全部就是400億"},{"start":3740.98,"end":3742.98,"text":"那我只是在這邊"},{"start":3742.98,"end":3744.98,"text":"懇切的跟各位委員予以報告"},{"start":3744.98,"end":3746.98,"text":"就是說光軍用的"},{"start":3746.98,"end":3748.98,"text":"無人採據按照"},{"start":3748.98,"end":3750.98,"text":"國民黨版的第三條的定義的話"},{"start":3750.98,"end":3752.98,"text":"一年400億的"},{"start":3752.98,"end":3754.98,"text":"這個部分是不夠的"},{"start":3754.98,"end":3756.98,"text":"而我們提出2100億"},{"start":3756.98,"end":3758.98,"text":"它是有一個限定"},{"start":3758.98,"end":3760.98,"text":"就是這三類"},{"start":3760.98,"end":3762.98,"text":"一個叫兵海戰爭型"},{"start":3762.98,"end":3764.98,"text":"一個叫兵海打擊型"},{"start":3764.98,"end":3766.98,"text":"一個叫小型造物類型"},{"start":3766.98,"end":3768.98,"text":"其實大家都很清楚現在所有的無人採據"},{"start":3768.98,"end":3770.98,"text":"已經日新月異每天都在發展"},{"start":3771.21,"end":3773.21,"text":"地面也有無人採據在進行"},{"start":3773.21,"end":3775.21,"text":"那水下你不管針雷"},{"start":3775.21,"end":3777.21,"text":"烈雷掃雷都有無人採據"},{"start":3777.21,"end":3779.21,"text":"你天上飛的這個"},{"start":3779.21,"end":3781.21,"text":"無人的飛機也有這種"},{"start":3781.21,"end":3783.21,"text":"一類二類三類四類五類"},{"start":3783.21,"end":3785.21,"text":"有這麼多"},{"start":3785.95,"end":3787.95,"text":"更不要說講水面的"},{"start":3787.95,"end":3789.95,"text":"水面的現在這個無人艇的運用"},{"start":3789.95,"end":3791.95,"text":"已經非常非常多了"},{"start":3791.95,"end":3793.95,"text":"所以我只是在說明"},{"start":3793.95,"end":3795.95,"text":"我們國防部就是說"},{"start":3795.95,"end":3797.95,"text":"如果要以國民黨的版本文字"},{"start":3797.95,"end":3799.95,"text":"來進行修正的話請特別考量"},{"start":3799.95,"end":3801.95,"text":"第二條第15條第16條"},{"start":3801.95,"end":3803.95,"text":"這樣子"},{"start":3803.95,"end":3805.95,"text":"好謝謝顧部長的說明"},{"start":3805.95,"end":3807.95,"text":"麻煩請今天部合成長說明"},{"start":3807.95,"end":3809.95,"text":"賴司法委員請準備"},{"start":3809.95,"end":3811.95,"text":"謝謝院長那經濟部的立場"},{"start":3811.95,"end":3813.95,"text":"我們是認為產業發展的這個支持的"},{"start":3813.95,"end":3815.95,"text":"措施目前其實各部會"},{"start":3815.95,"end":3817.95,"text":"行政各部會已經有完整的法源跟機制"},{"start":3817.95,"end":3819.95,"text":"那例如比方說"},{"start":3819.95,"end":3821.95,"text":"像經濟部我們有產業判新"},{"start":3821.95,"end":3823.95,"text":"條例我們可以來提供產業"},{"start":3823.95,"end":3825.95,"text":"輔導研發補助租稅的減免"},{"start":3825.95,"end":3827.95,"text":"人才培訓還有"},{"start":3827.95,"end":3829.95,"text":"資金的協助那交通部也有"},{"start":3829.95,"end":3831.95,"text":"民用航空法數位部"},{"start":3831.95,"end":3833.95,"text":"還有NCC也都有"},{"start":3833.95,"end":3835.95,"text":"相關的法規都可以來"},{"start":3835.95,"end":3837.95,"text":"支持我們產業的發展"},{"start":3837.95,"end":3839.95,"text":"那另外行政院也在"},{"start":3839.95,"end":3841.95,"text":"114年通過無人採據"},{"start":3841.95,"end":3843.95,"text":"產業發展重新計畫"},{"start":3843.95,"end":3845.95,"text":"預計未來6年的時間"},{"start":3845.95,"end":3847.95,"text":"我們編了442億元來"},{"start":3847.95,"end":3849.95,"text":"協助產業的一個發展"},{"start":3849.95,"end":3851.95,"text":"所以經濟部的立場建立"},{"start":3851.95,"end":3853.95,"text":"不需要特別再立專法"},{"start":3853.95,"end":3855.95,"text":"來協助產業因為"},{"start":3855.95,"end":3857.95,"text":"目前已經有既有的一個機制在"},{"start":3857.95,"end":3859.95,"text":"輔導這個產業"},{"start":3859.95,"end":3861.95,"text":"發展那第二個部分就是"},{"start":3861.95,"end":3863.95,"text":"其實產業現在"},{"start":3863.95,"end":3865.95,"text":"最迫切需要的就是要有"},{"start":3865.95,"end":3867.95,"text":"一個穩定的一個訂單"},{"start":3867.95,"end":3869.95,"text":"所以我們是建立就是說聚焦"},{"start":3869.95,"end":3871.95,"text":"在採購軍用的這個無人採據"},{"start":3871.95,"end":3873.95,"text":"那有這樣的一個長期的"},{"start":3873.95,"end":3875.95,"text":"一個訂單"},{"start":3875.95,"end":3877.95,"text":"有穩定可預期的這個"},{"start":3877.95,"end":3879.95,"text":"訂單的話也可以讓"},{"start":3879.95,"end":3881.95,"text":"產業可以持續投入研發"},{"start":3881.95,"end":3883.95,"text":"還有擴充產能的這個意願"},{"start":3883.95,"end":3885.95,"text":"那另外就是"},{"start":3885.95,"end":3887.95,"text":"我們也建立用特別預算"},{"start":3887.95,"end":3889.95,"text":"來編列因為特別預算"},{"start":3889.95,"end":3891.95,"text":"可以有這個長年期"},{"start":3891.95,"end":3893.95,"text":"穩定可預期的採購經費"},{"start":3893.95,"end":3895.95,"text":"那可以讓國內的"},{"start":3895.95,"end":3897.95,"text":"業者願意來投入"},{"start":3897.95,"end":3899.95,"text":"研發跟量產"},{"start":3899.95,"end":3901.95,"text":"如果用年度預算的方式來執行的話"},{"start":3901.95,"end":3903.95,"text":"我們擔心會有預算排擠"},{"start":3903.95,"end":3905.95,"text":"預算審查刪減或"},{"start":3905.95,"end":3907.95,"text":"時程延遲的這個問題"},{"start":3907.95,"end":3909.95,"text":"反而會讓"},{"start":3909.95,"end":3911.95,"text":"國內的業者會產生"},{"start":3911.95,"end":3913.95,"text":"這個不確定性的"},{"start":3913.95,"end":3915.95,"text":"這樣的一個預算"},{"start":3915.95,"end":3917.95,"text":"支持的一個因素所以會影響"},{"start":3917.95,"end":3919.95,"text":"國內業者投入的意願"},{"start":3919.95,"end":3921.95,"text":"所以我們是建立各位"},{"start":3921.95,"end":3923.95,"text":"是不是可以來支持行政版本"},{"start":3923.95,"end":3925.95,"text":"以特別預算來集中資源"},{"start":3925.95,"end":3927.95,"text":"來加速推動"},{"start":3927.95,"end":3929.95,"text":"也兼顧我們國防戰力建置時效"},{"start":3929.95,"end":3931.95,"text":"跟國內無人宅居產業的發展"},{"start":3931.95,"end":3933.95,"text":"以上"},{"start":3935.38,"end":3937.38,"text":"國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團"},{"start":3937.38,"end":3939.38,"text":"提的還有專業選委員完全不一樣"},{"start":3939.38,"end":3941.38,"text":"方向完全不一樣"},{"start":3941.38,"end":3943.38,"text":"是南淵北轍"},{"start":3943.38,"end":3945.38,"text":"好,賴志寶請發言"},{"start":3945.14,"end":3947.14,"text":"謝謝院長"},{"start":3947.14,"end":3949.14,"text":"剛才何市長講的我都聽不懂了"},{"start":3949.54,"end":3951.54,"text":"因為目前並沒有"},{"start":3951.54,"end":3953.54,"text":"幫助無人宅居的專法"},{"start":3953.54,"end":3955.54,"text":"沒有"},{"start":3955.54,"end":3957.54,"text":"你講的是適用出產條例"},{"start":3957.54,"end":3959.54,"text":"方面的"},{"start":3960.12,"end":3962.12,"text":"所以是劑同要搶"},{"start":3962.12,"end":3964.12,"text":"現在來講這個你知不知道"},{"start":3964.12,"end":3966.12,"text":"經濟部部長不來來個市長"},{"start":3966.12,"end":3968.12,"text":"就很清楚嘛經濟部就是"},{"start":3968.12,"end":3970.12,"text":"把這個讓給國防部"},{"start":3970.12,"end":3972.12,"text":"就清清楚楚就這裡面的後面的"},{"start":3972.12,"end":3974.12,"text":"邏輯在這個地方"},{"start":3974.12,"end":3976.12,"text":"所以第一個我要強調的是"},{"start":3976.12,"end":3978.12,"text":"第一個強調的是現在"},{"start":3978.12,"end":3980.12,"text":"並沒有專法"},{"start":3980.12,"end":3982.12,"text":"來幫助"},{"start":3981.48,"end":3983.48,"text":"無人宅居的"},{"start":3983.97,"end":3985.97,"text":"專法沒有"},{"start":3985.97,"end":3987.97,"text":"只有相關的出產條例"},{"start":3987.97,"end":3989.97,"text":"提供要強調"},{"start":3990.09,"end":3992.09,"text":"第二點我強調的是"},{"start":3992.09,"end":3994.09,"text":"echo一下剛才的這個"},{"start":3994.09,"end":3996.09,"text":"民眾黨的流蘇病委員講到的"},{"start":3996.71,"end":3998.71,"text":"無人機方面"},{"start":3998.71,"end":4000.71,"text":"技術日行月益"},{"start":4000.71,"end":4002.71,"text":"一次買這麼多"},{"start":4004.52,"end":4006.52,"text":"就很清楚啊"},{"start":4006.52,"end":4008.52,"text":"所以這裡面分批買是有必要的"},{"start":4008.52,"end":4010.52,"text":"第二點我強調"},{"start":4010.52,"end":4012.52,"text":"所以我堅持"},{"start":4011.44,"end":4013.44,"text":"在國內的採購方面"},{"start":4013.44,"end":4015.44,"text":"就應該要用一般預算"},{"start":4015.44,"end":4017.44,"text":"國民黨團也很有善意啊"},{"start":4018.54,"end":4020.54,"text":"你變兩千億我給你扣他兩千四啊"},{"start":4020.54,"end":4022.54,"text":"比你要的還多啊"},{"start":4023.27,"end":4025.27,"text":"比你要的還多啊"},{"start":4025.27,"end":4027.27,"text":"大家為什麼要再糾結於"},{"start":4027.27,"end":4029.27,"text":"我是一般預算還是特別預算"},{"start":4029.27,"end":4031.27,"text":"那第三個行程來講"},{"start":4031.27,"end":4033.27,"text":"法輪功委員當時提到的"},{"start":4033.27,"end":4035.27,"text":"這個時程來講"},{"start":4035.35,"end":4037.35,"text":"時程來講你現在講特別預算"},{"start":4037.35,"end":4039.35,"text":"比較快不夠快喔"},{"start":4039.35,"end":4041.35,"text":"特別預算條例一過"},{"start":4041.35,"end":4043.35,"text":"他還要變預算要重新送來"},{"start":4043.6,"end":4045.6,"text":"如果是我們這裡一般預算大家太惱了"},{"start":4045.6,"end":4047.6,"text":"你可以追加預算啊"},{"start":4047.6,"end":4049.6,"text":"下一次追加預算就進來了"},{"start":4050.22,"end":4052.22,"text":"這個不會比你悶的啦"},{"start":4052.28,"end":4054.28,"text":"不會比你悶的而且很有彈性啊"},{"start":4054.28,"end":4056.28,"text":"你要彈性很有彈性"},{"start":4056.28,"end":4058.28,"text":"只有差一個東西"},{"start":4057.93,"end":4059.93,"text":"事實上這個也沒差"},{"start":4059.93,"end":4061.93,"text":"你說差一個東西我兩千一百億是給國內廠商"},{"start":4063.29,"end":4065.29,"text":"可是你不要我們兩千四啊"},{"start":4066.21,"end":4068.21,"text":"兩千四也是給國內廠商啊"},{"start":4068.21,"end":4070.21,"text":"所以這個民間地方大家再糾結"},{"start":4070.21,"end":4072.21,"text":"我一定要特別預算"},{"start":4072.21,"end":4074.21,"text":"跟年度預算"},{"start":4074.21,"end":4076.21,"text":"我覺得以國民黨團的版本來講"},{"start":4076.21,"end":4078.21,"text":"他的quota是兩千四"},{"start":4078.21,"end":4080.21,"text":"比你這個三百億的啦"},{"start":4081.1,"end":4083.1,"text":"最後一點"},{"start":4083.1,"end":4085.1,"text":"最後一點我要再強調"},{"start":4085.1,"end":4087.1,"text":"這裡面剛剛顧部長講說"},{"start":4087.1,"end":4089.1,"text":"這個每年四百億不夠啊"},{"start":4089.1,"end":4091.1,"text":"什麼之類的等等的"},{"start":4091.1,"end":4093.1,"text":"那就所以"},{"start":4093.53,"end":4095.53,"text":"所以你現在來講的話你只有那三類嗎"},{"start":4095.53,"end":4097.530000000001,"text":"你未來說不定又有其他一個人進來"},{"start":4097.530000000001,"end":4099.530000000001,"text":"讓他更有彈性"},{"start":4099.530000000001,"end":4101.530000000001,"text":"年度預算會更有彈性"},{"start":4101.530000000001,"end":4103.530000000001,"text":"真的需要特別預算"},{"start":4103.530000000001,"end":4105.530000000001,"text":"只有說我要把我的技術水平"},{"start":4105.530000000001,"end":4107.530000000001,"text":"拉上來跟世界先進國家"},{"start":4107.530000000001,"end":4109.530000000001,"text":"買到他們的層級"},{"start":4109.530000000001,"end":4111.530000000001,"text":"那個才有需要否則不需要"},{"start":4112.01,"end":4114.01,"text":"好謝謝兩位委員"},{"start":4114.01,"end":4116.01,"text":"我們等一下你們兩位委員發言完畢之後"},{"start":4116.01,"end":4118.01,"text":"我們休息十分鐘大家討論一下好嗎"},{"start":4118.01,"end":4120.01,"text":"好 中大病委員請發言"},{"start":4120.01,"end":4122.01,"text":"我向來佩服我們賴斯巴爾委員的發言"},{"start":4122.01,"end":4124.01,"text":"但是有時候他偶爾會這樣"},{"start":4124.01,"end":4126.01,"text":"他會沒有注意到說事實的存在"},{"start":4126.01,"end":4128.01,"text":"目前有一個叫做"},{"start":4128.01,"end":4132.01,"text":"無人載具科技創新實驗條例"},{"start":4132.01,"end":4134.01,"text":"主管機關是經濟部什麼時候發布的"},{"start":4134.01,"end":4136.01,"text":"2018年"},{"start":4136.01,"end":4138.01,"text":"當年為了發展自駕車無人車"},{"start":4138.01,"end":4140.01,"text":"所以經濟部那時候推動了"},{"start":4140.01,"end":4142.01,"text":"無人載具的實驗條例"},{"start":4142.01,"end":4144.01,"text":"裡面的內容可以馬上上網看一下"},{"start":4144.01,"end":4146.01,"text":"我們的法規資料查詢都可以查得到"},{"start":4146.01,"end":4148.01,"text":"大家都可以查得到"},{"start":4148.01,"end":4150.01,"text":"它裡面包括陸域空域水域"},{"start":4150.01,"end":4152.01,"text":"通通包含在內"},{"start":4152.01,"end":4154.01,"text":"所以這第一個回應我們剛賴斯巴爾委員"},{"start":4154.01,"end":4156.01,"text":"國內目前有沒有針對無人載具的專法"},{"start":4156.01,"end":4158.01,"text":"有"},{"start":4158.01,"end":4160.01,"text":"而且是在2018年"},{"start":4160.01,"end":4162.01,"text":"當年他的實驗條例的目的"},{"start":4162.01,"end":4164.01,"text":"就是希望在無人載具發展過程當中"},{"start":4164.01,"end":4166.01,"text":"給予適合的場域"},{"start":4166.01,"end":4168.01,"text":"那今天大家不再說了嗎"},{"start":4168.01,"end":4170.01,"text":"民眾黨團的版本國民黨團的版本"},{"start":4170.01,"end":4172.01,"text":"也都需要什麼"},{"start":4172.01,"end":4174.01,"text":"測試場域大家寫在條文裡面的"},{"start":4174.01,"end":4176.01,"text":"測試場域"},{"start":4176.01,"end":4178.01,"text":"早在2018年就已經寫進了經濟部"},{"start":4178.01,"end":4180.01,"text":"所主管的無人載具"},{"start":4180.01,"end":4182.01,"text":"科技創新實驗條例裡面了"},{"start":4182.01,"end":4184.01,"text":"只是說時隔了8年"},{"start":4184.01,"end":4186.01,"text":"因應了二戰爭的發展"},{"start":4186.01,"end":4188.01,"text":"我們這個實驗條例需要做一些充實"},{"start":4188.01,"end":4190.01,"text":"將國防部在面對新的"},{"start":4190.01,"end":4192.01,"text":"威脅形態下我們的產業所要"},{"start":4192.01,"end":4194.01,"text":"發展的內容把它放進來"},{"start":4194.01,"end":4196.01,"text":"這是第一個回應的第二個剛聽完了"},{"start":4196.01,"end":4198.01,"text":"我們顧部長的說明"},{"start":4198.01,"end":4200.01,"text":"我剛好發現這13個版本當中"},{"start":4200.01,"end":4202.01,"text":"剛好有一位委員的版本"},{"start":4202.01,"end":4204.01,"text":"就是符合部長所提的"},{"start":4204.01,"end":4206.01,"text":"請看王定宇委員的第二條"},{"start":4206.01,"end":4208.01,"text":"在我們法規比照表的第三頁"},{"start":4208.01,"end":4210.01,"text":"王委員的說法說"},{"start":4210.01,"end":4212.01,"text":"本條例所稱中央主管機關為經濟部"},{"start":4212.01,"end":4214.01,"text":"涉及國防軍用採購事項為國防部"},{"start":4214.01,"end":4216.01,"text":"目前這13個版本當中"},{"start":4216.01,"end":4218.01,"text":"只有這個版本"},{"start":4218.01,"end":4220.01,"text":"的寫法是這麼清楚明白的"},{"start":4220.01,"end":4222.01,"text":"寫出了主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":4222.01,"end":4224.01,"text":"但國防軍事"},{"start":4224.01,"end":4226.01,"text":"的部分採購部分是國防部"},{"start":4226.01,"end":4228.01,"text":"那第三個呢"},{"start":4228.01,"end":4230.01,"text":"包括剛剛顧部長所說的"},{"start":4230.01,"end":4232.01,"text":"因為國民黨團的版本民主黨團"},{"start":4232.01,"end":4234.01,"text":"版本對於無人載具的定義"},{"start":4234.01,"end":4236.01,"text":"譬如說如果以民主黨團來講"},{"start":4236.01,"end":4238.01,"text":"他只有講無人機"},{"start":4238.01,"end":4240.01,"text":"他們有包括水域的跟入獄的"},{"start":4240.01,"end":4242.01,"text":"那國民黨的部分寫的很多"},{"start":4242.01,"end":4244.01,"text":"但是足凡不及備載"},{"start":4244.01,"end":4246.01,"text":"但是你看看王定宇委員"},{"start":4246.01,"end":4248.01,"text":"同樣的他的第二條"},{"start":4248.01,"end":4250.01,"text":"就在我們法規對照"},{"start":4250.01,"end":4252.01,"text":"條文對照的第四頁"},{"start":4252.01,"end":4254.01,"text":"台灣民眾黨團也有"},{"start":4254.01,"end":4256.01,"text":"同業你看看"},{"start":4256.01,"end":4258.01,"text":"不是唯一唯二"},{"start":4258.01,"end":4260.01,"text":"台灣民眾黨團也有"},{"start":4260.01,"end":4262.01,"text":"來我們看一下"},{"start":4262.01,"end":4264.01,"text":"本條例所稱無人載具"},{"start":4264.01,"end":4268.01,"text":"只具備自動導航遙控或自主運作能力之無人飛行載具"},{"start":4268.01,"end":4270.01,"text":"無人水面載具"},{"start":4270.01,"end":4272.01,"text":"無人水下載具"},{"start":4272.01,"end":4274.01,"text":"無人地面載具或其他經中央主管機關公告指定之載具"},{"start":4274.01,"end":4276.01,"text":"這樣的內容"},{"start":4276.01,"end":4278.01,"text":"讓我們經濟部"},{"start":4278.01,"end":4280.01,"text":"有這個機會去"},{"start":4280.01,"end":4282.01,"text":"針對產業的發展"},{"start":4282.01,"end":4284.01,"text":"不管是外銷的市場"},{"start":4284.01,"end":4286.01,"text":"還是我們國內國軍所需要的使用的"},{"start":4286.01,"end":4288.01,"text":"都可以涵蓋在裡面"},{"start":4288.01,"end":4290.01,"text":"我相信顧部長也好次長也好"},{"start":4290.01,"end":4292.01,"text":"應該有看到這樣一個王委員的版本"},{"start":4292.01,"end":4294.01,"text":"尤其是他第二項還特別仔細的提到"},{"start":4294.01,"end":4296.01,"text":"跟什麼有區隔"},{"start":4296.01,"end":4298.01,"text":"不包括太空發展法"},{"start":4298.01,"end":4300.01,"text":"所定之發射載具或太空載具"},{"start":4300.01,"end":4302.01,"text":"因為目前我們國家在發展"},{"start":4302.01,"end":4304.01,"text":"飛彈或太空"},{"start":4304.01,"end":4306.01,"text":"的確那個就排除在這個法令的"},{"start":4306.01,"end":4308.01,"text":"使用範圍"},{"start":4308.01,"end":4310.01,"text":"顧部長所言"},{"start":4310.01,"end":4312.01,"text":"可以參考王定委員的第二條跟第三條以上"},{"start":4312.22,"end":4314.22,"text":"謝謝政委"},{"start":4314.22,"end":4316.22,"text":"政委我麻煩簡短謝謝"},{"start":4316.22,"end":4318.22,"text":"好謝謝院長我盡量簡短"},{"start":4318.22,"end":4320.22,"text":"其實這十三個版本裡面"},{"start":4320.22,"end":4322.22,"text":"大家再去把它看一下"},{"start":4322.22,"end":4324.22,"text":"真的都是在講國防自主"},{"start":4324.22,"end":4326.22,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":4326.22,"end":4328.22,"text":"戰力的形成"},{"start":4328.22,"end":4330.22,"text":"既然是戰力的形成的話"},{"start":4330.22,"end":4332.22,"text":"我本來以為要討論是第一條"},{"start":4332.22,"end":4334.22,"text":"結果大家已經討論到第二條去"},{"start":4334.22,"end":4336.22,"text":"附帶要講也可以"},{"start":4336.22,"end":4338.22,"text":"我們去看一下各黨團請參考一下"},{"start":4338.22,"end":4340.22,"text":"在《愛防救法》第三條裡面"},{"start":4340.22,"end":4342.22,"text":"我們這一部法令"},{"start":4342.22,"end":4344.22,"text":"你從各個黨團代表"},{"start":4344.22,"end":4346.22,"text":"所提出的版本來看"},{"start":4346.22,"end":4348.22,"text":"國防自主的話"},{"start":4348.22,"end":4350.22,"text":"那你只要產國防自主的話"},{"start":4350.22,"end":4352.22,"text":"又涉及到整個產業的一個發展"},{"start":4352.22,"end":4354.22,"text":"那不一定要只有一個機關"},{"start":4354.22,"end":4356.22,"text":"我們《宅愛防救法》"},{"start":4356.22,"end":4358.22,"text":"我跟大家報告"},{"start":4358.22,"end":4360.22,"text":"《宅愛防救法》機關幾個呢"},{"start":4360.65,"end":4362.65,"text":"各宅就是疫防"},{"start":4362.65,"end":4364.65,"text":"應變、宅重建各機關"},{"start":4364.65,"end":4366.65,"text":"中央宅防護主管機關裡面"},{"start":4366.65,"end":4368.65,"text":"有內政部啦"},{"start":4367.79,"end":4369.79,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":4369.79,"end":4371.79,"text":"水災、旱災、礦災、工業管線的"},{"start":4371.79,"end":4373.79,"text":"又經濟部啦主管機關經濟部啦"},{"start":4373.79,"end":4375.79,"text":"然後呢這個土石流"},{"start":4375.79,"end":4377.79,"text":"大規模崩塌、森林火災又農業部啦"},{"start":4377.79,"end":4379.79,"text":"空難"},{"start":4379.79,"end":4381.79,"text":"海難"},{"start":4381.79,"end":4383.79,"text":"路上交通又是交通部"},{"start":4383.79,"end":4385.79,"text":"毒性化學物質來電環境部"},{"start":4385.79,"end":4387.79,"text":"生物災害病"},{"start":4387.6,"end":4389.6,"text":"衛福部、輻射又核安委員會"},{"start":4389.6,"end":4391.6,"text":"所以也就是說啊"},{"start":4391.6,"end":4393.6,"text":"我們一部法令裡面既然你有"},{"start":4393.6,"end":4395.6,"text":"產業發展然後又有"},{"start":4395.6,"end":4397.6,"text":"國防自主各個"},{"start":4397.6,"end":4399.6,"text":"黨團其實不用堅持"},{"start":4399.6,"end":4401.6,"text":"都已經有先例我們在《宅愛防法》"},{"start":4401.6,"end":4403.6,"text":"裡面啊還有七個主管"},{"start":4403.6,"end":4405.6,"text":"機關的所以未必要堅持"},{"start":4405.6,"end":4407.6,"text":"內容既然涉及到你"},{"start":4407.6,"end":4409.6,"text":"第一個產國防自主了嘛"},{"start":4409.6,"end":4411.6,"text":"那其實主管機關"},{"start":4411.6,"end":4413.6,"text":"一併把這個國防部"},{"start":4413.6,"end":4415.6,"text":"放進去我覺得這是這個大家"},{"start":4415.6,"end":4417.6,"text":"今天就講道理嘛不是壞事情啦"},{"start":4417.6,"end":4419.6,"text":"我第一條就先講到這個地方"},{"start":4419.6,"end":4421.6,"text":"但是今天大家討論到這個地方"},{"start":4421.6,"end":4423.6,"text":"不要說是保留啦"},{"start":4423.6,"end":4425.6,"text":"是暫時先討論到這個地方"},{"start":4425.6,"end":4427.6,"text":"等一下再回來啊不然的話保留就是明天"},{"start":4427.6,"end":4429.6,"text":"要不要看啦"},{"start":4429.6,"end":4431.6,"text":"那市長委員你要加一句話是不是請"},{"start":4431.6,"end":4433.6,"text":"一句話喔剛才周委員的指教"},{"start":4433.6,"end":4435.6,"text":"我仔細讀了"},{"start":4435.6,"end":4437.6,"text":"那是等於類似"},{"start":4437.6,"end":4439.6,"text":"無人載具的"},{"start":4439.6,"end":4441.6,"text":"沙盒實驗"},{"start":4441.6,"end":4443.6,"text":"跟我們國眾兩黨提的"},{"start":4443.6,"end":4445.6,"text":"出境產業租稅的優惠"},{"start":4445.6,"end":4447.6,"text":"人才的招聘等等"},{"start":4447.6,"end":4449.6,"text":"完全不一樣"},{"start":4449.6,"end":4451.6,"text":"完全不一樣啦"},{"start":4451.6,"end":4453.6,"text":"這是不一樣的東西喔"},{"start":4453.6,"end":4455.6,"text":"這個我只是回應周委員"},{"start":4455.6,"end":4457.6,"text":"我們現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":4457.6,"end":4459.6,"text":"大家休息一下謝謝"},{"start":5755.72,"end":5757.72,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5816.86,"end":5818.86,"text":"好謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐"},{"start":5820.35,"end":5822.35,"text":"請坐請坐謝謝"},{"start":5824.49,"end":5826.49,"text":"好各位黨團幹部謝謝"},{"start":5826.49,"end":5828.49,"text":"謝謝行政院所有的練習的官員"},{"start":5828.49,"end":5830.49,"text":"我們剛才休息了十分鐘"},{"start":5830.49,"end":5832.49,"text":"又繼續在"},{"start":5834.75,"end":5836.75,"text":"繼續討論將近二十分鐘將近半個多小時"},{"start":5836.75,"end":5838.75,"text":"各黨團的意見"},{"start":5838.75,"end":5840.75,"text":"以及練習的委員"},{"start":5840.75,"end":5842.75,"text":"也都有充分的表達"},{"start":5842.75,"end":5844.75,"text":"經濟部跟國防部也有表達立場"},{"start":5844.75,"end":5846.75,"text":"我想現在這樣子我們就聚集三個焦點"},{"start":5847.61,"end":5849.61,"text":"這主管單位到底是經濟部還是國防部"},{"start":5849.61,"end":5851.61,"text":"二預算是要特別預算"},{"start":5851.61,"end":5853.61,"text":"還是年度預算"},{"start":5854.8,"end":5856.8,"text":"三到底要多少經費"},{"start":5856.8,"end":5858.8,"text":"我想我們針對這三個焦點"},{"start":5858.8,"end":5860.8,"text":"歡迎各黨團來表達一下"},{"start":5860.8,"end":5862.8,"text":"如果各位認為其他意見要表達當然也歡迎"},{"start":5864.35,"end":5866.35,"text":"但是我們針對這三個主題大家來討論一下"},{"start":5866.35,"end":5868.35,"text":"我們要進行等一下"},{"start":5868.35,"end":5870.35,"text":"來宣告好不好"},{"start":5872.46,"end":5874.46,"text":"台灣民眾黨團你要先表達一下意見嗎"},{"start":5874.46,"end":5876.46,"text":"這三個主題"},{"start":5876.28,"end":5878.28,"text":"那個"},{"start":5878.28,"end":5880.28,"text":"就是"},{"start":5880.28,"end":5882.28,"text":"基本上我們這邊"},{"start":5882.28,"end":5884.28,"text":"台灣民眾黨的版本"},{"start":5884.28,"end":5886.28,"text":"其實我們本來寫的"},{"start":5886.28,"end":5888.28,"text":"就是有兩個主管機關"},{"start":5888.28,"end":5890.28,"text":"一個是經濟部一個是國防部"},{"start":5890.28,"end":5892.28,"text":"那另外就是我們"},{"start":5892.28,"end":5894.28,"text":"我們經過修正"},{"start":5894.28,"end":5896.28,"text":"我們經過內部的討論"},{"start":5896.28,"end":5898.28,"text":"其實我們把國防採購研發補助"},{"start":5898.28,"end":5900.28,"text":"關鍵技術進口資安審查"},{"start":5900.28,"end":5902.28,"text":"場域測試規劃等事情"},{"start":5902.28,"end":5904.28,"text":"就會由這個"},{"start":5904.28,"end":5906.28,"text":"國防部來處理"},{"start":5906.28,"end":5908.28,"text":"這個大概是我們現在"},{"start":5908.28,"end":5910.28,"text":"新修訂的"},{"start":5910.28,"end":5912.28,"text":"的一個版本以上"},{"start":5915.7,"end":5917.7,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5916.98,"end":5918.98,"text":"那個"},{"start":5918.98,"end":5920.98,"text":"第二個點的話經費我們還是堅持"},{"start":5920.98,"end":5922.98,"text":"年度預算"},{"start":5922.98,"end":5924.98,"text":"那第三個因為年度預算我們就是"},{"start":5924.98,"end":5926.98,"text":"不用寫金額就行政院"},{"start":5926.98,"end":5928.98,"text":"國防部按照需求編電這樣子"},{"start":5929.69,"end":5931.69,"text":"好謝謝台灣民眾黨非常清楚的表達意見"},{"start":5931.69,"end":5933.69,"text":"希望兩個部會"},{"start":5933.69,"end":5935.69,"text":"國防部跟經濟部來共同來"},{"start":5935.69,"end":5937.69,"text":"主管然後"},{"start":5937.69,"end":5939.69,"text":"預算的話就請根據"},{"start":5939.69,"end":5941.69,"text":"需求來編電"},{"start":5941.69,"end":5943.69,"text":"堅持要求"},{"start":5943.51,"end":5945.51,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5944.37,"end":5946.37,"text":"公預算年度預算"},{"start":5947.15,"end":5949.15,"text":"民進黨團請表達意見"},{"start":5950.59,"end":5952.59,"text":"我想民進黨必須要再次提出來"},{"start":5952.59,"end":5954.59,"text":"這個其實條文之間的設計"},{"start":5954.59,"end":5956.59,"text":"是連動"},{"start":5956.59,"end":5958.59,"text":"但是第一個我相信我們已經達成共識了"},{"start":5958.59,"end":5960.59,"text":"你涉及到"},{"start":5960.59,"end":5962.59,"text":"產業發展跟供應鏈技術的"},{"start":5962.59,"end":5964.59,"text":"升級還有國產化"},{"start":5964.59,"end":5966.59,"text":"主管機關當然就是經濟部"},{"start":5966.59,"end":5968.59,"text":"這很明顯"},{"start":5968.59,"end":5970.59,"text":"可是你涉及到整個"},{"start":5970.59,"end":5972.59,"text":"如何去部署如何形成"},{"start":5972.59,"end":5974.59,"text":"戰力要買多少"},{"start":5974.59,"end":5976.59,"text":"這個說來問根據部也怪怪"},{"start":5976.59,"end":5978.59,"text":"所以雙機關的設計"},{"start":5978.59,"end":5980.59,"text":"這個我相信大家可以達成一個共識"},{"start":5980.59,"end":5982.59,"text":"也非常合理立法立喪"},{"start":5982.59,"end":5984.59,"text":"本來在災防法裡面的規定"},{"start":5984.59,"end":5986.59,"text":"都甚至可以拉到七個主管機關"},{"start":5986.59,"end":5988.59,"text":"所以我們也尊重"},{"start":5988.59,"end":5990.59,"text":"這個台灣民眾黨"},{"start":5990.59,"end":5992.59,"text":"就把這個整個主管機關"},{"start":5992.59,"end":5994.59,"text":"給經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":5994.59,"end":5996.59,"text":"但是又涉及到"},{"start":5996.59,"end":5998.59,"text":"台灣民眾黨講如果說以"},{"start":5998.59,"end":6000.59,"text":"編列一般預算的話"},{"start":6000.59,"end":6002.59,"text":"那當然就不會有數字出來"},{"start":6002.59,"end":6004.59,"text":"民進黨這個地方"},{"start":6004.59,"end":6006.59,"text":"我們當然優先選項就是說"},{"start":6006.59,"end":6008.59,"text":"其實各個版本裡面"},{"start":6008.59,"end":6010.59,"text":"都在講國防自主"},{"start":6010.59,"end":6012.59,"text":"那如果可以形成一個"},{"start":6012.59,"end":6014.59,"text":"跨年度的"},{"start":6014.59,"end":6016.59,"text":"延續性的"},{"start":6016.59,"end":6018.59,"text":"讓國防部"},{"start":6018.59,"end":6020.59,"text":"按照他的一個專業如何去部署"},{"start":6020.59,"end":6022.59,"text":"那其實特別條例"},{"start":6022.59,"end":6024.59,"text":"說實在話"},{"start":6024.59,"end":6026.59,"text":"這個其實比較適合"},{"start":6026.59,"end":6028.59,"text":"但是因為你們"},{"start":6028.59,"end":6030.59,"text":"國民黨跟民眾黨的版本"},{"start":6030.59,"end":6032.59,"text":"又牽扯到說你們要產業發展"},{"start":6032.59,"end":6034.59,"text":"就立法的目的"},{"start":6034.59,"end":6036.59,"text":"有所不同"},{"start":6036.59,"end":6038.59,"text":"這個可能大家可以再來"},{"start":6038.59,"end":6040.59,"text":"好好地溝通一下"},{"start":6040.59,"end":6042.59,"text":"那到底金額要多少"},{"start":6042.59,"end":6044.59,"text":"如果是年度預算當然就沒有金額"},{"start":6044.59,"end":6046.59,"text":"那你如果說是特別條例的話"},{"start":6046.59,"end":6048.59,"text":"當然要設定一個金額"},{"start":6048.59,"end":6050.59,"text":"那以上民進黨黨團的報告"},{"start":6050.59,"end":6052.59,"text":"請國民黨團表達意見"},{"start":6052.59,"end":6054.59,"text":"各別委員請稍後表達意見"},{"start":6054.6,"end":6056.6,"text":"許中文請"},{"start":6056.49,"end":6058.49,"text":"謝謝主席其實我想"},{"start":6058.49,"end":6060.49,"text":"國民黨團的版本非常清楚的"},{"start":6060.49,"end":6062.49,"text":"就是我們就是希望能夠"},{"start":6062.49,"end":6064.49,"text":"這個國防自主採購跟"},{"start":6064.49,"end":6066.49,"text":"產業發展並重嘛"},{"start":6066.49,"end":6068.49,"text":"所以說我們認為主管機關應該是要"},{"start":6068.49,"end":6070.49,"text":"有經濟部但是我們有一個主辦"},{"start":6070.49,"end":6072.49,"text":"機關就是有經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":6072.49,"end":6074.49,"text":"來分別的"},{"start":6074.49,"end":6076.49,"text":"針對他們所主管的相關"},{"start":6076.49,"end":6078.49,"text":"產業跟國防的部分都能夠"},{"start":6078.49,"end":6080.49,"text":"共同來去推動那當然"},{"start":6080.49,"end":6082.49,"text":"為什麼要年度預算呢因為其實"},{"start":6082.49,"end":6084.49,"text":"針對年度預算的話"},{"start":6084.49,"end":6086.49,"text":"每年送來立法院我們能夠有做"},{"start":6086.49,"end":6088.49,"text":"這個有效的監督那也不要"},{"start":6088.49,"end":6090.49,"text":"知道說我們現在用的這個"},{"start":6090.49,"end":6092.49,"text":"相關的這個經費是不是"},{"start":6092.49,"end":6094.49,"text":"用在真正需要上面尤其是"},{"start":6094.49,"end":6096.49,"text":"我們都現在知道無人機"},{"start":6096.49,"end":6098.49,"text":"這個快速迭代的狀況之下"},{"start":6098.49,"end":6100.49,"text":"其實他每一年所需要採購"},{"start":6100.49,"end":6102.49,"text":"如果說只是用特別預算"},{"start":6102.49,"end":6104.49,"text":"就是固定六年採購或是"},{"start":6104.49,"end":6106.49,"text":"這個壓住在單一廠商的做法"},{"start":6106.49,"end":6108.49,"text":"風險夠過高啦"},{"start":6108.49,"end":6110.49,"text":"所以應該是要分批來採購"},{"start":6110.49,"end":6112.49,"text":"滾動修正來維持戰力"},{"start":6112.49,"end":6114.49,"text":"也避免交貨的時候"},{"start":6114.49,"end":6116.49,"text":"其實已經過時的這個問題"},{"start":6116.49,"end":6118.49,"text":"所以我們為什麼堅持要年度預算"},{"start":6118.49,"end":6120.49,"text":"第三個就是經費的部分喔"},{"start":6120.49,"end":6122.49,"text":"我們是國民黨團隊是堅持"},{"start":6122.49,"end":6124.49,"text":"就是我們要這個兩千四百億"},{"start":6124.49,"end":6126.49,"text":"對然後分四年編列"},{"start":6126.49,"end":6128.49,"text":"分六年編列"},{"start":6128.49,"end":6130.49,"text":"一年四百億"},{"start":6130.49,"end":6132.49,"text":"那現在個別練習的委員要不要補充意見"},{"start":6132.49,"end":6134.49,"text":"我們等一下要做好陳冠廷委員請"},{"start":6135.22,"end":6137.22,"text":"謝謝院長喔"},{"start":6137.22,"end":6139.22,"text":"那我特別再強調一下"},{"start":6139.22,"end":6141.22,"text":"莊委員剛才提到的"},{"start":6141.22,"end":6143.22,"text":"如果是特別預算的當然是有這個數字"},{"start":6143.22,"end":6145.22,"text":"那如果是一般預算是不是"},{"start":6145.22,"end":6147.22,"text":"那是理論上來講是行政部門"},{"start":6147.22,"end":6149.22,"text":"他自己要編列的"},{"start":6149.22,"end":6151.22,"text":"那如果我們再把它"},{"start":6149.77,"end":6151.77,"text":"擴張到每年要編多少"},{"start":6151.77,"end":6153.77,"text":"那總額是多少"},{"start":6153.77,"end":6155.77,"text":"而且特別是我們剛剛提到說"},{"start":6155.77,"end":6157.77,"text":"總額限制是兩千四百億"},{"start":6157.77,"end":6159.77,"text":"然後每年編列是四百億"},{"start":6159.77,"end":6161.77,"text":"那如果他本身國防部自己的年度預算"},{"start":6161.77,"end":6163.77,"text":"就已經使用在無人機"},{"start":6163.77,"end":6165.77,"text":"已經超越這一個部分的話"},{"start":6165.77,"end":6167.77,"text":"那這樣不是就沒有辦法"},{"start":6167.77,"end":6169.77,"text":"滿足這第十五條"},{"start":6169.77,"end":6171.77,"text":"所以這才是我們比較擔心的"},{"start":6171.77,"end":6173.77,"text":"而且你們第三條裡面有無人載具的定義"},{"start":6173.77,"end":6175.77,"text":"有包含懸疑定義垂直形象等無人機"},{"start":6175.77,"end":6177.77,"text":"那這些無人機同時也在"},{"start":6177.77,"end":6179.77,"text":"其他部會有使用"},{"start":6179.77,"end":6181.77,"text":"那也算在這一條嗎"},{"start":6181.77,"end":6183.77,"text":"因為你們剛才寫的是中央政府"},{"start":6183.77,"end":6185.77,"text":"所以我是認為說如果是有年度預算的話"},{"start":6185.77,"end":6187.77,"text":"假設不得已年度預算"},{"start":6187.77,"end":6189.77,"text":"那你不應該放置數字跟上限在上面"},{"start":6191.92,"end":6193.92,"text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員的補充說明"},{"start":6193.92,"end":6195.92,"text":"那個別委員練習的有沒有補充意見"},{"start":6195.92,"end":6197.92,"text":"沒有的話我們就"},{"start":6197.92,"end":6199.92,"text":"部長我想您剛剛的立場"},{"start":6199.92,"end":6201.92,"text":"已經表達非常清楚了"},{"start":6201.92,"end":6203.92,"text":"您跟經濟部還有沒有補充的"},{"start":6205.49,"end":6207.49,"text":"如果沒有補充我要做宣告了"},{"start":6207.49,"end":6209.49,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":6213.25,"end":6215.25,"text":"上位達成共識"},{"start":6215.25,"end":6217.25,"text":"我們依照協商結論定於明天院會要進行處理"},{"start":6217.25,"end":6219.25,"text":"第二點明天院會9點開始"},{"start":6219.25,"end":6221.25,"text":"9點半麻煩各黨團幹部"},{"start":6221.25,"end":6223.25,"text":"再一次至議場後方主席辦公室"},{"start":6223.25,"end":6225.25,"text":"我們要進行議程溝通"},{"start":6225.25,"end":6229.25,"text":"10點院會將會進行議案處理以及表決"},{"start":6230.33,"end":6230.83,"text":"散"},{"start":6231.29,"end":6233.29,"text":"我們本會期全體委員以及"},{"start":6233.29,"end":6235.29,"text":"議事人員都非常辛苦"},{"start":6235.29,"end":6237.29,"text":"尤其是8月份"},{"start":6237.29,"end":6239.29,"text":"包括預算案的協商"},{"start":6239.29,"end":6241.29,"text":"同意全案的審查"},{"start":6241.29,"end":6243.29,"text":"修憲案的公聽會"},{"start":6243.29,"end":6245.29,"text":"相關議案的表決幾乎天天都在開會"},{"start":6245.29,"end":6247.29,"text":"因此在這裡"},{"start":6247.29,"end":6249.29,"text":"要跟各黨團幹部來報告一下"},{"start":6249.29,"end":6251.29,"text":"8月底最後兩次院會通過了"},{"start":6251.29,"end":6253.29,"text":"議案校對的正確性"},{"start":6253.29,"end":6255.29,"text":"我們必須給議事人員充分的時間"},{"start":6255.29,"end":6257.29,"text":"請議事人員在"},{"start":6257.29,"end":6259.29,"text":"下會期9月29號開議日之前"},{"start":6259.29,"end":6265.29,"text":"將本會期8月份最後兩次院會通過的議案整理校對完畢之後"},{"start":6265.29,"end":6267.29,"text":"再知請總統來公佈"},{"start":6267.29,"end":6269.29,"text":"那我們今天協商就到此為止"},{"start":6269.29,"end":6271.29,"text":"現在散會"},{"start":6275.46,"end":6277.46,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部謝謝各位列寫官員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:29:56.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:29:57.280000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:32:29.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:32:43.624815+08:00","text":"傅總召已到，謝謝三位總召、各位黨團幹部、列席的賴委員、陳委員、各位列席\n的官員及各位工作夥伴，今天各黨黨鞭都已經到了，我們要協商「國防自主無人載具採購特別\n條例草案」。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:32:43.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:33:15.280000+08:00","text":"開始協商之前，要向各位黨團幹部報告一下，這幾天南部可以說是連日豪雨，導致災情慘重\n，大家都在努力的勘災、救災，加上氣象署的預報，沙德爾颱風可能在本週五會接近臺灣，為\n了方便政府部門及民意代表共同處理防災的相關事宜，在這裡建議各黨團幹部是否接受把本週\n五（28日）所開院會，提早至明天 8月 27日進行？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:33:15.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:33:21.916154+08:00","text":"這一點要請各位黨團幹部來研究一下，如果\n可以的話，我們就明天早上開會。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:33:25.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:33:29.331818+08:00","text":"請問蔡總召。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:33:29.331818+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T15:33:31.150000+08:00","text":"我沒有意見。可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-08-26T15:33:31.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:33:33.877273+08:00","text":"我想我們都可以配合院長。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:33:33.877273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T15:33:34.877273+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:33:34.326471+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:06.360000+08:00","text":"我這裡有一份協商草稿，請議事人員發下去，我來唸一遍給大家聽一下：「立法\n院朝野黨團協商，時間：115年 8月 26日（星期三）下午 3時 30分；地點：紅樓 302會議室；\n決定事項：因應沙德爾颱風來襲，各黨團同意將原定 8 月 28 日（星期五）之院會提前至 27 日\n（星期四）開會，處理原定之無人載具相關條例制定案、公民投票法修正案及完成協商之議案\n，處理完畢即行散會。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:06.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:10.337778+08:00","text":"」，如果各位黨團幹部同意的話，麻煩請簽字，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:15.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:17.809231+08:00","text":"院長，公民投票法修正案是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:19.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:19.928889+08:00","text":"那個還沒協商，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:21.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:23.246667+08:00","text":"等一下會進行，沒有問題！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:23.246667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:27.315294+08:00","text":"會徵求各黨團的同意。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:27.315294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:30.844706+08:00","text":"院長，我覺得如果要加進來，應該要事先讓大家知道嘛！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:31.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:31.880000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:32.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:40.872308+08:00","text":"因為我們主張公民\n投票有意見的委員要先讓他知道有這項協商，所以我覺得這樣其實是不大妥。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:41.713333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:47.013333+08:00","text":"其實這樣我們也\n很難在這裡處理，你也沒有先讓大家知道要協商這一案……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:55.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:34:55.675000+08:00","text":"蔡總召，沒有問題。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:34:55.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:35:17.100000+08:00","text":"這樣好了，因為我們明天早上 9點開會，我會宣讀黨團共識，在 9點半\n協 2\n時，拜託各位黨團幹部到議場後方主席辦公室，我們來溝通；在 10 點整，各位委員可能就要開\n始進行表決，所以我們還有一個緩衝，就是明天早上 9 點半，這點要跟各位總召特別報告一下\n，不會有任何夾帶私貨，絕對不會有的，一定要徵詢大家的同意。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:35:17.481818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:35:26.540000+08:00","text":"如果可以，我們先列進來，\n但是明天 9 點半，如果沒有辦法達成共識，到時候我們看如何處理，這一點請大家一定要放心\n，好不好？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:35:36.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:35:39.896154+08:00","text":"我的意思是，這項議案就不用寫了，因為你明天直接溝通就好了。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:35:40.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:35:45.716667+08:00","text":"我們來修正，處理原定無人機載具相關制定案，其他議案就不寫，好不好？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:35:45.716667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T15:35:58.430000+08:00","text":"其他明天就……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:35:58.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:36:05.215714+08:00","text":"院長，我的意思是，其他的議案只要朝野都沒有意見，明天本來溝通完就可以處理嘛\n！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:36:05.665294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:36:24.530000+08:00","text":"我們今天就依照原定的協商議程來寫，反正明天不只這樣子，你還可以完成其他協商之議案\n，換言之，那是加 N的概念……「及完成協商」就可以，你協商完後，哪一條都可以處理啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:36:28.065714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:36:42.446667+08:00","text":"我們補充及修正一下，「因應沙德爾颱風來襲，各黨團同意將原定 8 月 28 日（星期五）之\n院會提前至 27日（星期四）開會，處理原定之無人載具相關條例制定案等議案。」好嗎？可以。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:37:10.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:37:11.956667+08:00","text":"對，等議案，OK，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:37:57.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:38:04.786667+08:00","text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部，我們開始進入無人載具採購特別條例的朝野協商。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:38:05.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:38:06.920000+08:00","text":"先介紹所有到場的列","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"席官員","start":"2026-08-26T15:38:08.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:38:54.866667+08:00","text":"首先是經濟部何次長，歡迎您；國防部顧部長，歡迎；國發會產業發展處林參事，謝\n謝，歡迎；數位發展部陳主秘，歡迎您；交通部航政司楊司長，歡迎您；公共工程委員會謝處\n長，謝謝，歡迎；國科會張專門委員，謝謝，歡迎；財政部國庫署陳署長，歡迎您；主計總處\n公務預算處吳專門委員，歡迎您；法務部廖參事，歡迎。","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"席官員","start":"2026-08-26T15:38:58.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:39:00.320000+08:00","text":"我們現在進行協商。","quality":1},{"speaker":"席官員","start":"2026-08-26T15:39:00.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:39:20.141429+08:00","text":"本案於 115年 7月 27日本院第 11屆第 5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三\n委員會第 2 次聯席會議進行審查，審查結論除鍾佳濱等 21 位委員提案另定期審查外，其餘各條\n文及委員鄭正鈐等所提修正動議均保留送院會處理，須交由黨團協商。","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"席官員","start":"2026-08-26T15:39:20.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:39:27.320000+08:00","text":"本案於 115 年 8 月 20 日\n由台灣民眾黨黨團召集黨團協商，協商結果並無共識。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"席官員","start":"2026-08-26T15:39:36.723846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:39:47.290000+08:00","text":"我們現在進行審查會條文保留部分，第一個是行政院所提的法案名稱「國防自主無人載具採\n購特別條例」，各位黨團幹部有意見嗎？","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"席官員","start":"2026-08-26T15:39:47.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:39:49.208182+08:00","text":"連這個都沒辦法達成共識。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:40:04.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:40:06.077778+08:00","text":"院長，我大概先講一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:40:07.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:40:29.507778+08:00","text":"其實大家都知道這兩部是不一樣的東西，一個在談特別預算，簡單講就是臺灣國防自\n主建軍，包括無人機、無人艇的購買；另外，國民黨黨團、民眾黨黨團的版本是在談產業的發\n展，所以這兩個案子要併在一起難度實在非常高。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:40:31.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:40:39.753333+08:00","text":"我的建議就是可能很多都要先保留處理，不\n然我們在說的完全是不一樣的事情。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-08-26T15:40:39.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:05.753333+08:00","text":"民進黨覺得國防建軍很重要，用特別預算穩定地採買這\n2,100 億的偵防、攻擊跟無人艇是重要的，民進黨也覺得建構臺灣無人機產業的自主性是重要的\n，但是我們現在是把兩件事當一件事在處理，所以我覺得很難對得上。協 3","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:07.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:13.016154+08:00","text":"既然蔡總召已經先發言，台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團是不是也要表達一下意見，好不好？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:13.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:13.970000+08:00","text":"王委員，請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:15.669412+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:25.873333+08:00","text":"雖然剛剛蔡總召有講到這個事情，不過台灣民眾黨黨團的法案基本上就是兼顧發展跟\n國防自主。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:26.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:41.640000+08:00","text":"我們要講的是，我們的法案名稱叫做「無人機」，經過這幾番的討論，我們願意改\n成「無人載具」，看看大家對於我們更改的名字是不是可以接受。以上。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:43.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:46.345714+08:00","text":"國民黨黨團是不是要表達一下意見？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:46.671111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:48.448889+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨黨團的意思是可以接受這個名稱。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:53.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:54.580000+08:00","text":"許副書記長，請。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:55.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:41:56.220000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-08-26T15:41:56.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:42:16.220000+08:00","text":"其實中國國民黨的立場非常明確，就是我們全力支持國防自主，但是我們\n認為產業發展也相對重要，所以我們建議名稱應該是「強化國防自主暨無人載具產業發展條例\n」，而不是用特別條例。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:42:17.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:42:19.337778+08:00","text":"謝謝宇甄副書記長的發言。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:42:19.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:42:20.435000+08:00","text":"賴士葆委員請發言。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:42:20.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:42:22.435000+08:00","text":"鍾佳濱委員是不是要發言，我看你一直在看我？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:42:22.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:42:23.393333+08:00","text":"好，你準備發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:42:23.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:42:26.060000+08:00","text":"謝謝韓院長及各位先進。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:42:27.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:43:03.606842+08:00","text":"剛才蔡總召提到的是一個根本的問題，他表示因為今天民進\n黨黨團的重點是放在國防部的採購案這個地方，而國眾兩黨團的重點是放在產業發展，剛才你\n提到這個非常重要，但不要忘了我們的院會最大，院會交辦下來是經濟委員會主導，而經濟委\n員會主導的意思，就是要主導怎麼樣讓無人載具產業在臺灣落地生根，甚至於升級，打造所謂\n的第二座護國神山。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:43:03.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:43:29.560000+08:00","text":"要打造第二座護國神山，老實講，我們現在整個技術水平的提升就非常重要了，所以小弟我\n提的案子是說這裡面如果要特別預算，那就是跟國外買，現在國防部列的都是跟國內買，國內\n買 21 萬架無人機，很多專家都說真正的高階……高階跟低階區別在哪裡？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:43:29.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:43:38.606154+08:00","text":"高階是自己飛，你設\n幾個參數它就自己飛了，你說要飛到蘭嶼，它自己飛去蘭嶼；所謂的低階是什麼意思？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:43:39.221538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:43:44.260000+08:00","text":"你要\ncontrol，就跟玩電動玩具一樣，要自己來遙控，那是低階。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:43:44.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:44:10.578182+08:00","text":"21 萬架裡面，2,000 架是高階，其他\n都是低階，所以老實講，對臺灣的無人機產業的扶持非常重要，我們大家都覺得非常重要，因\n此增加跟國外買，但是有一個前提，即有條件式的特別預算去買，買的話，要承諾技術移轉，\n要怎麼承諾技術移轉呢？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:44:10.902857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:44:34.493333+08:00","text":"過去的 Offset 機制就非常重要，聯合工業或是工業聯合都可以，Offset\n在過去都沒有做好，那我們今天是不是可以趁這個機會，如果要，就用這個機會把它技術升級\n，對於我們其他的產業發展，都有一些鼓勵、補貼，希望大家能夠投資無人載具產業。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:44:35.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:44:53.740000+08:00","text":"最後我要強調一點，今天如果是兩大黨團即民眾黨跟國民黨堅持一定只有一般預算，不要有\n特別預算，那就是另外一件事情，那就等於沒有這個。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T15:44:54.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:44:56.840000+08:00","text":"我想我簡單做一個 briefing，做一個啟動\n。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:44:57.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:44:58.790000+08:00","text":"謝謝賴士葆委員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:44:59.949091+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:45:10.915000+08:00","text":"鍾佳濱委員、國防召委陳冠廷委員發言完畢後，劉書彬委員也來了，待黨團幹部發言完畢後\n，列席委員對這個案子關心可以發言，如果有人要發言的話，我們等一下準備發言。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:45:11.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:45:11.640000+08:00","text":"請鍾委員。協 4","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:45:12.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:45:13.640000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長特別指名。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:45:14.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:45:29.754286+08:00","text":"目前這 13 個案當中，基本上就分成三類，第一類是純採購，就\n是行政院版的提案，還有賴士葆委員的提案，以及民進黨委員王定宇以外的提案，通通都是純\n採購。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:45:30.403636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:45:39.873333+08:00","text":"另外第二種是 C 類的，就是純發展，為民眾黨黨團的提案，以及賴士葆委員的另外一個\n提案，這是純發展的。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:45:40.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:45:50.277778+08:00","text":"如果是兩者併而合一，就是國民黨的提案，有採購，也有發展；或者是\n王定宇委員的提案，有採購、有創建、有發展。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:45:51.611111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:03.710000+08:00","text":"我們建議，因為剛剛蔡總召也提到了，今天我們是不是先有一個預定，到底我們是要決定以\n採購為主，還是要以發展為主？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:04.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:09.287273+08:00","text":"或者是要有採購的金額在內，又要有產業所需要的建置？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:09.713846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:15.393333+08:00","text":"我就\n簡單做個分類供主席參酌，也供各位黨團幹部判斷。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:15.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:22.360000+08:00","text":"我們很難一次討論 13 個版本，有這三種類\n型，因為這三種類型基本上彼此之間有一點互斥性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:22.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:24.060000+08:00","text":"以上建議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:24.702857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:25.417143+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:25.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:45.310000+08:00","text":"我先跟黨團幹部報告一下，明天開院會的協商結論現已完成黨團幹部簽名，我們授權議事處\n先行發文，所以麻煩各黨團幹部要通知所有你們所屬的委員，明天早上 9 點開會，9 點半黨團幹\n部集合開會前會，10點整可能要進入表決。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:45.671111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:48.360000+08:00","text":"陳冠廷委員請發言，劉書彬委員請準備。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:48.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:46:49.160000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:46:49.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:01.274286+08:00","text":"其實我剛才有聽到賴士葆委員的一點善意，因為有特別提到特別預算，過\n去國民黨黨團沒有談到這裡。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:01.782222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:08.590000+08:00","text":"我要提出來的就是，如果是特別預算，您剛剛說主要是對外採購\n。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:08.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:15.128182+08:00","text":"那麼如果是臺灣與美方合資生產的，是不是也能包含進去？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:15.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:19.143333+08:00","text":"這是第一點，如果能這樣的話，\n我們覺得這件事情就有曙光。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:19.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:33.185000+08:00","text":"因為我看到許多臺灣的本土產業現在基本上就是用美方的大腦指\n控系統，等於是大腦的控制系統、指揮系統，只是在臺灣生產，有點這樣的概念。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:33.452857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:35.167143+08:00","text":"所以這方面\n是不是可以考量進去？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:35.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:42.060000+08:00","text":"這是第一點，當然也很感謝院長給我們機會可以跟各黨團討論。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:42.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:46.079231+08:00","text":"第二點，剛才鍾委員提到發展跟採購。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:46.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:47:59.316667+08:00","text":"我們之所以會有 2,100 億的特別預算，是先專注在這兩\n、三年，甚至是緊迫的、可能會遇到的、衝突危機的可能性。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:47:59.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:48:03.578571+08:00","text":"所以發展是發展，採購是採購，\n要分開來說。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:48:03.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:48:19.400000+08:00","text":"特別是仔細去看這 2,100 億的三大樣貌可知，都是濱海、濱海、濱海，不管是作戰\n還是監偵，由此可知威脅離我們比較近一點，2,100 億裡面之所以要有快速取得武力的原因在這\n裡。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:48:19.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:48:26.496154+08:00","text":"我們知道民眾黨也有提到發展，但就快速取得武力這部分來說，我希望大家能考量進去。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T15:48:26.872222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:48:28.427778+08:00","text":"我\n就先簡單發言到此，謝謝。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:48:28.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:48:30.525000+08:00","text":"劉書彬委員請發言，黃健豪委員請準備。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-08-26T15:48:33.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:48:35.120000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-08-26T15:48:36.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:48:49.270000+08:00","text":"民眾黨版本特別重視的除了發展之外，未來要提出的修正動議當中，其實\n也會把採購放進去。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-08-26T15:48:49.805714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:49:05.353333+08:00","text":"第二個，我們還是堅持用一般的年度預算，很重要的原因在於：美國智庫已經跟我們提醒，\n因為無人機、無人載具發展速度的迭代很快。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-08-26T15:49:05.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:49:33.270000+08:00","text":"如果在六年時間裡把錢花下去的話，其實並沒有\n讓產業有足夠的發展時間，尤其發展必須透過國家無人載具戰略發展委員會做指引，並由此引\n導整個無人機產業，包括整個國防自主要怎麼進行。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-08-26T15:49:33.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:49:46.377143+08:00","text":"因此，有發展引導後，後續用年度預算進\n行，包括我們一定會加進去的發展跟採購，這樣就沒有問題了。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-08-26T15:49:46.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:49:51.020000+08:00","text":"所以我們堅持要有一整套的做\n協 5\n法，謝謝。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:49:51.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:49:54.420000+08:00","text":"請臺中市選出的立委黃健豪委員，這和你們產業有關，請你表達意見。","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:49:55.953846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:49:56.415385+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:49:56.723077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:05.350000+08:00","text":"各位同仁先進，誠如莊瑞雄委員之言，今天版本確實有三種，這點大家都\n有共識。","quality":0.656},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:05.711111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:07.488889+08:00","text":"在這三種裡面，國民黨版本包含發展跟採購。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:07.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:15.475000+08:00","text":"所以我要強調的是，沒錯，國民黨版本\n是有採購，並按照第十五條規定編了 2,400 億，只是分年編列。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:15.766667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:18.350000+08:00","text":"為什麼要分年、長期編列這\n2,400 億？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:19.327273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:26.446154+08:00","text":"過去大家在討論時說，我們若要發展無人機，就需要有一個長期穩定的政策來支撐，\n所以才會有這樣的編排方式。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:26.822222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:28.377778+08:00","text":"再來是本土產業。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:28.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:35.385714+08:00","text":"我們不斷強調，除了對外採購之外，更重要是國內的產業怎麼樣才能跟上\n這一波，並扶植國內產業？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:35.963636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:41.400000+08:00","text":"為此，我們特別在條例裡要求，在發展國內產業部分，本土化的比\n例各要多少。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:41.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:51.913529+08:00","text":"當然，後續在細則部分可以討論本土化是要純臺製才叫本土化，還是臺灣廠商跟\n國外廠商合資也算本土化？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:52.356667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:50:53.956667+08:00","text":"相關細節我覺得後續大家可以討論。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:50:54.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:04.867778+08:00","text":"我覺得國民黨版本是比較完整、一致性去溝通，所以我們並沒有反對採購，我們也支持採購\n；也沒有反對不能買那三型無人機，是包含，但並不限於。","quality":0.695},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:05.405789+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:11.890000+08:00","text":"如果未來戰爭或未來產業有其他需\n求，也可以買別的東西，只是先把錢匡列出來而已。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:12.356667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:18.947143+08:00","text":"這兩件事我認為並不衝突，同時也能兼顧\n產業發展，畢竟產業發展對於所有產業來講，是最重要的事情。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:19.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:26.999091+08:00","text":"不管今天要不要用特別條例，用一般預算還是用特別預算，最重要是我們的產業要怎麼加入\n這個行業，我覺得這是最重要的事情。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:27.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:27.840000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:28.375714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:29.804286+08:00","text":"謝謝黃健豪委員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:30.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:31.990000+08:00","text":"洪毓祥委員，請問你等一下要不要發言？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:32.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:33.423333+08:00","text":"因為莊瑞雄委員發言完，國防部要表達意見。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:34.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:35.090000+08:00","text":"你要\n不要發言？好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:36.356667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:39.840000+08:00","text":"現在請莊瑞雄委員發言，發言完請洪毓祥委員發言。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:41.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:42.450000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:42.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:51:57.696154+08:00","text":"今天聽完前面幾位各黨團代表發言後，其實我滿敬佩的，因為大家今天的\n態度就非常開放，所以我一直在讀韓院長的心思，看看今天最後有沒有辦法達成。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:51:57.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:52:02.788889+08:00","text":"第一個，我\n剛剛聽了賴士葆委員的發言，我為什麼說表達敬佩？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:52:02.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:52:46.167778+08:00","text":"其實他有兩個版本，一個版本在整個國防\n自主的部分、國防採購的部分有 43 個人簽名，43 位國民黨委員簽名，這是特別條例喔，扣掉院\n長、副院長慣例上是不連署，像我們民進黨黨團三長也不連署，國民黨支持特別條例者達到\n90%；黃健豪委員剛剛也提到了，黃委員我也很敬佩，你說特別條例也很好，然後年度預算編列\n的產業發展都支持，也很好，所以我就覺得非常好，氣氛到現在都非常好。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:52:46.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:53:02.104286+08:00","text":"剛剛我聽到黃委員提到的，就是把台灣民眾黨版本無人機的部分變成無人載具，這個也非常\n好，因為改為無人載具，變成空中的也有，地面的也有，然後整個水下的也都有，那已經達成\n共識了。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:53:02.532857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:53:17.175714+08:00","text":"我們是不是先不要保留，因為我們一般在講保留就是馬上要處理了嘛，這個部分我們\n暫時先……等到討論到後面再回來，搞不好會產生一個共識也不一定。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:53:17.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:53:32.863333+08:00","text":"民主進步黨在這個地方\n要特別強調，每一個版本提出來馬上就冠上國防自主，大家都在講國防自主，其他的條文什麼\n主管機關都放在經濟部了，不在這個條文裡面，我就先不講了。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:53:33.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:53:59.436667+08:00","text":"我的意思就是說，既然大家的\n協 6\n條文名稱都是在講國防自主、無人載具，你要國防自主，只要不把國防部所要採購的部分丟包\n，對於國民黨、台灣民眾黨所提出來所有無人機產業的部分，民主進步黨全部表達支持，大家\n都很開放嘛！","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:53:59.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:54:18.246667+08:00","text":"就是說，既然條例是……我們不要欺騙社會，我們要跟社會說現在三黨提出來的\n都叫做國防自主，然後到最後把國防部要買的、要馬上快速形成不對稱戰力的，我們卻把它丟\n包，這樣就不好了。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:54:18.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:54:40.768182+08:00","text":"賴委員所提到的是說，採購的部分是高階，高、中、低這個都可以討論，但至少我們也看到\n國民黨有將近九成的人認為特別條例是可以考慮的，民進黨的表達也非常善意，產業支持的部\n分都要，國家來支持，到最後變成另外一座護國神山。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:54:41.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:55:00.450000+08:00","text":"三黨對於無人機、無人載具的部分剛開\n始大家會有紛爭，看法會有所不同，可是經過大家攻防完以後，很好啊，產業也要發展，但是\n要發展產業的時候，不要忘記針對整個條例，每一個版本我相信到最後還會再提出修正動議。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:55:01.116667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:55:12.450000+08:00","text":"既然都是要國防自主的話，國防部要的這些東西就不要讓他們那麼辛苦啦，這個國家是大家一\n起的嘛，大家說要國防自主，但我們到最後卻把它給丟包的話，這個就沒道理了。以上。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:55:13.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:55:14.507778+08:00","text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員發言。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:55:15.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:55:17.507778+08:00","text":"請洪毓祥委員，洪委員發言完畢，再請范雲委員發言。","quality":0.476},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T15:55:21.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:55:35.480000+08:00","text":"因為我擔任經濟委員會的召委，在初審的時候，我們也歷經了 8小時的討論，基本上\n這 14 個版本，除了鍾委員的提案還留在委員會，但他也有參與討論。","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T15:55:36.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:55:47.587143+08:00","text":"我覺得三個黨派的基本差\n異都很清楚了，本黨團還是堅持所謂的年度預算，不編入特別預算。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T15:55:47.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:56:01.480000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們也不會把國防部要採購的東西給丟包，我想在後續的一些討論，我們也認為這\n絕對不會是丟包的一個項目。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T15:56:02.015714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:57:00.110000+08:00","text":"第三個，國防部在講的時候，整個無人載具的產業，我們跟院長到美國去，我們也就\n是要國防自主嘛，一定要國內的供應鏈產業升級、自主化生產，因此，我認為經濟部來主導這\n樣的產業升級發展，國防部提出來的採購基本上就是一個需求規格，所以這個邏輯上是很清楚\n的，這樣我們才能做到所謂信任的供應鏈，也才有辦法去做到我們整個產業自主化的發展，甚\n至我們也納入非軍規的部分，其他各部會對於非軍規無人載具的使用，也可以納入所謂的共同\n供應採購契約，「得」啦，沒有說一定，但是我覺得讓他們產生一個高效能、國產自主化的無\n人載具，大概是本黨團的主要目的。謝謝。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:57:01.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:57:02.860000+08:00","text":"謝謝洪召集委員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:57:03.554444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:57:04.887778+08:00","text":"范雲委員，請簡短，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-08-26T15:57:05.455294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:57:07.102353+08:00","text":"我們今天為什麼會有這個特別條例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-08-26T15:57:07.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:57:14.820000+08:00","text":"完全是因為之前 1.25 兆的國防特別預算，關於無\n人機、無人艇的部分完全被刪除。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-08-26T15:57:15.442222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:57:16.997778+08:00","text":"為什麼要特別條例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-08-26T15:57:17.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:57:28.650000+08:00","text":"因為這件事情是國防的建置，非常的急\n，我們民主的盟友都在看我們到底有沒有要即刻補上這一塊，所以我現在很擔心時程的問題。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-08-26T15:57:29.494444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:58:00.650000+08:00","text":"如果是特別條例，原本行政院版的條文是通過之後即刻就可以去採購，我們的做法是採購帶動\n產業，而你們的則是以產業為主，這個有點狸貓換太子，就是問 A 然後給 B，你現在說要來包\n這個採購，可是你們條例的最後一條規定是條例通過後六個月施行，所以我想請問部長，如果\n協 7\n通過這個規定的話，是不是非常急的那三款，就算你寫進去之後也是來不及布建？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:58:01.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:58:02.907143+08:00","text":"范委員，謝謝，等一下國防部長會說明。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:58:03.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:58:10.800000+08:00","text":"不過你跟莊委員的論述好像差異很大，光你跟莊委\n員是同個黨團就完全南轅北轍！","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:58:11.413636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:58:14.868182+08:00","text":"麻煩請國防部顧部長表達一下意見，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T15:58:15.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:58:16.716667+08:00","text":"經濟部請準備。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:58:17.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:58:42.020000+08:00","text":"行政院的版本我們已經提出來，大家也都已經看過了，現在因為有十幾個版本，國防\n部就先以國民黨版的部分來說，我想我們最希望大家能夠給予國防部支持的就是第二條、第十\n五條跟第十六條，就是這三條。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:58:43.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:58:58.270000+08:00","text":"第二條規定主管機關是經濟部，我們是不是能夠建議改為本條例主管機關為經濟部，但是涉\n及國防軍用採購事項是國防部？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:58:58.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T15:59:25.664286+08:00","text":"也就是說，國民黨版條文的第二條是「本條例之主管機關為經\n濟部」嘛，因為國民黨版也有涉及到採購的部分，所以我們是不是能夠建議將文字改為「本條\n例之主管機關為經濟部，涉及國防軍用採購事項為國防部」，這是第二條的部分，請各位能夠\n斟酌。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T15:59:30.134444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:00:03.580000+08:00","text":"再來最重要的就是第十五條跟第十六條，我在這邊跟各位說明一下，因為國民黨黨版對於無\n人載具的定義相當寬，國民黨版第三條有關無人載具的定義，簡單講就是包括了天上飛的、水\n面跑的、水下潛的，還有地面上所有的。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:00:06.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:00:35.830000+08:00","text":"就這些相關的部分我跟各位做個報告，如果我們將所\n有的無人載具都包含進去的話，不包含我們現在提出的濱海監偵型、濱海攻擊型跟小型自殺無\n人艇的部分，我們在明年，也就是行政院已經通過的明年度的年度預算，在無人載具這個部分\n就已經編列 311 億了。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:00:36.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:00:56.396667+08:00","text":"比如說我們已經跟美國買了 MQ-9B 高高空無人機、銳鳶二型無人機、垂\n直起降無人機等等，這些所有相關的無人機、無人載具，在我們明年度（116 年度）預算就已經\n占了 311億。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:00:56.883846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:01:41.813333+08:00","text":"我要說這一點是因為在上次委員會討論的時候，國民黨有再提出一個修正動議，將\n第三條的無人載具定義又放得更寬了，不管是操作或進行不須人員乘載於機具本體，可以遙控\n、自主控制或其他方式運作於空中、水面、水下、地面或其他環境的無人載具，用途包括監偵\n、目獲、攻擊、後勤運輸、通訊中繼、電子作戰、誘餌、掃雷、布雷及其他任務等等，這些都\n算是無人載具。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:01:42.702222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:02:21.980000+08:00","text":"我要說明的是第十五條，抱歉，我花一點時間說明，國民黨版第十五條有提到「為建立長期\n、穩定之無人載具產業發展及國防建設機制，持續推動無人載具產業發展、強化國防自主能量\n、建構安全可信任之供應鏈體系及提升國際競爭力」接著下面這個就是重點了，「中央政府應\n循年度預算程序，每年編列新臺幣四百億元，連續編列六年，總額為新臺幣為二千四百億元。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:02:22.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:02:44.480000+08:00","text":"」我只是要跟各位做一個報告，如果按照國民黨版的無人載具這樣的定義的話，每年編列 400\n億元事實上是不足的，這點要請各位能夠理解。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:02:48.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:03:10.757778+08:00","text":"國民黨版第十六條說這 400 億元預算的支用是所有軍用無人載具的採購、產製、維修、工程\n及訓練，也包括了軍民共用測試場域的設置及維運費用，也包括了產業聚落發展以及中小企業\n的特別扶助。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:03:10.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:03:26.580000+08:00","text":"也就是說這 400 億元包括了我們軍用要買的所有無人載具，也包括了軍民共用的\n測試場域，也包括了經濟部要去做產業聚落發展跟中小企業的特別扶助，全部就是 400億元。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:03:27.265714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:03:51.868889+08:00","text":"我只是在這邊懇切地跟各位委員報告，光軍用的無人載具，按照國民黨版的第三條的定義的\n協 8\n話，一年 400 億的這個部分是不夠的，而我們提出的 2,100 億有限定就是在這三類，這三類一個\n叫濱海監偵型，一個叫做濱海攻擊型，一個叫做小型自殺無人艇。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:03:52.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:04:17.700000+08:00","text":"其實大家都很清楚，現在所\n有的無人載具已經日新月異，每天都在發展，地面也有無人載具在進行，水下不管偵雷、獵雷\n、掃雷都有無人載具，天上飛的無人飛機也有一類、二類、三類、四類、五類，有這麼多，更\n不要講水面的，水面的現在無人艇的運用已經非常、非常多了。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:04:17.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:04:27.664286+08:00","text":"所以我只是在說明，國防部認\n為如果要以國民黨的版本文字進行修正的話，請特別考量第二條、第十五條、第十六條。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:04:29.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:04:31.727778+08:00","text":"好，謝謝顧部長的說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:04:31.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:04:35.700000+08:00","text":"麻煩請經濟部何次長說明，然後賴士葆委員請準備。","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T16:04:35.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:04:36.495455+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T16:04:36.859091+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:05:03.727778+08:00","text":"經濟部的立場是認為，產業發展的支持措施，其實目前行政院各部會\n已經有完整的法源跟機制，比方說像經濟部，我們有產業創新條例可以提供產業輔導、研發補\n助、租稅減免、人才培訓還有資金協助；交通部也有民用航空法；數位部還有 NCC 也都有相關\n的法規可以支持我們的產業發展。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T16:05:04.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:05:26.150000+08:00","text":"另外，行政院也在 114年通過無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫，\n預計在未來 6 年的時間，我們要編列 442 億元來協助產業的發展，所以經濟部的立場是建議不\n需要特別再立專法協助產業，因為目前已經有既有的機制在輔導產業發展。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T16:05:26.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:05:49.768182+08:00","text":"第二個部分，其實產業現在最迫切需要的就是要有穩定的訂單，所以我們建議就聚焦在採購\n軍用的無人載具，有這樣長期、穩定、可預期的訂單的話，也可以讓產業有持續投入研發還有\n擴充產能的意願。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T16:05:50.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:06:05.550000+08:00","text":"另外，我們也建議用特別預算編列，因為特別預算有長年期、穩定、可預期\n的採購經費，可以讓國內的業者願意投入研發跟量產。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T16:06:05.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:06:38.950000+08:00","text":"如果用年度預算的方式執行的話，我們\n擔心會有預算排擠、預算審查刪減或時程延遲的問題，反而會讓國內業者產生不確定性預算支\n持的因素，進而會影響國內業者投入的意願，所以我們建議各位委員是不是可以支持行政院版\n本，以特別預算方式集中資源加速推動，也兼顧我們國防戰力建置時效跟國內無人載具產業的\n發展？以上。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:06:41.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:06:48.980000+08:00","text":"不過何次長，你這個說明跟國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團還有莊瑞雄委員提的完全不一樣，\n方向完全不一樣，南轅北轍。","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:06:49.665714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:06:51.094286+08:00","text":"請賴士葆委員發言。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:06:51.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:06:52.640000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:06:53.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:07:00.540000+08:00","text":"剛才何次長講的我都聽不懂，因為目前並沒有幫助無人載具的專法，\n沒有！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:07:01.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:07:07.262857+08:00","text":"你講的是適用促產條例方面的，所以是雞同鴨講。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:07:08.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:07:19.834286+08:00","text":"現在來講，經濟部部長不來，來個次\n長，很清楚嘛，經濟部就是要把這個讓給國防部，清清楚楚，這裡面後面的邏輯在這個地方啦\n！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:07:20.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:07:35.570000+08:00","text":"所以第一個我要強調的是，現在並沒有專法，沒有幫助無人載具的專法，只有相關的促產條\n例，這是第一個我要強調的。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:07:36.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:07:52.120000+08:00","text":"第二點我要強調的是，我要 echo 一下剛才民眾黨劉書彬委員所講到的，無人機方面的技術日\n新月異，一次買這麼多，沒多久就 out-of-date，這就很清楚啊！","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:07:52.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:08:01.217778+08:00","text":"所以這裡面分批買是有必要的，\n這是第二點我要強調的，所以我堅持在國內採購方面應該要用一般預算。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:08:01.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:08:10.984286+08:00","text":"國民黨黨團也很有善\n意，你編 2,000億，我給你 2,400的 quota，比你要的還多啊！","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:08:11.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:08:15.103333+08:00","text":"大家為什麼要再糾結於是一般預算\n還是特別預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:08:15.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:08:35.236364+08:00","text":"第三個，以行程來講，就范雲委員剛剛所提到的時程來講，現在假如特別預算比較快的話，\n協 9\n其實也沒有比較快，特別預算條例一過，他還要編預算，要重新送來，如果是我們這裡的一般\n預算，大家談好了，你可以追加預算，下一次追加預算就進來啦！","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:08:36.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:08:37.997778+08:00","text":"這個不會比你慢的啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:08:38.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:08:54.028182+08:00","text":"不會\n比你慢，而且也很有彈性，你要彈性也很有彈性，只有差一個東西，事實上，這個也沒有差，\n你說差一個東西，2,100 億是給國內廠商，可是你不要忘了，我們是 2,400 億，2,400 億也是給國\n內廠商啊！","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:08:54.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:09:05.987778+08:00","text":"所以這個不用緊張，大家糾結於一定要特別預算或是年度預算，我覺得以國民黨黨\n團的版本來講，他的 quota是 2,400億，比你們多 300億，沒有比較少啦！","quality":0.721},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:09:09.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:09:21.405000+08:00","text":"最後一點我要再強調的是，剛剛顧部長說每年 400 億不夠什麼之類的，所以以現在來講的話\n，你只有那三類嗎？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:09:21.663333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:09:37.348182+08:00","text":"未來說不定又有其他的進來，讓它更有彈性，年度預算會更有彈性，而真\n的需要特別預算的，只有說我要把我的技術水平拉上來，跟世界先進國家買到他們的層級，那\n個才有需要，否則不需要。謝謝。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:09:38.295714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:09:43.876667+08:00","text":"謝謝兩位委員，等一下你們兩位委員發言完畢之後我們休息 10分鐘，大家討論一下好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:09:44.898889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:09:45.787778+08:00","text":"鍾佳濱委員請發言，莊瑞雄委員請準備。","quality":0.312},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:09:46.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:09:51.856154+08:00","text":"我向來佩服賴士葆委員的發言，但是有時候他偶爾會這樣，他會沒有注意到事實的存\n在。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:09:52.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:10:00.010000+08:00","text":"目前有一個叫做無人載具科技創新實驗條例，主管機關是經濟部，什麼時候發布的？2018\n年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:10:02.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:10:13.760000+08:00","text":"當年為了發展自駕車、無人車，所以經濟部那時候推動了這個無人載具的實驗條例，裡面\n的內容可以馬上上網看一下，我們的法規資料查詢都可以查得到，大家都可以查得到。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:10:14.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:10:21.885000+08:00","text":"它裡面\n包括陸域、空域、水域，統統包含在內，所以這是第一個回應剛剛賴士葆委員的，國內目前有\n沒有針對無人載具的專法？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:10:22.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:10:33.810000+08:00","text":"有，而且是在 2018 年，當年這個實驗條例的目的，就是希望在無人\n載具發展過程當中給予適合的場域，今天大家不再說了嗎？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:10:34.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:11:00.943333+08:00","text":"我看民眾黨黨團的版本、國民黨黨\n團的版本也都需要測試場域，大家寫在條文裡面的測試場域，早在 2018 年就已經寫進經濟部所\n主管的無人載具科技創新實驗條例裡面了，只是時隔 8 年，因應俄烏戰爭的發展，我們這個實\n驗條例需要做一些充實，將國防部在面對新的威脅型態下，我們的產業所要發展的內容把它放\n進來，這是第一個回應的。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:11:01.076667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:11:09.787778+08:00","text":"第二個，剛剛聽完顧部長的說明，我發現這 13 個版本當中，剛好有一位委員的版本就是符合\n部長所提的。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:11:10.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:11:19.867143+08:00","text":"請看王定宇委員版本的第二條，在我們法規對照表的第 3 頁，王委員的說法是，\n本條例所稱中央主管機關為經濟部，涉及國防軍用採購事項為國防部。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:11:20.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:11:31.828182+08:00","text":"目前這 13 個版本當中，\n只有這個版本的寫法這麼清楚、明白的寫出主管機關是經濟部，但國防、軍事的部分、採購的\n部分是國防部。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:11:32.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:11:57.760000+08:00","text":"第三個，包括剛剛顧部長所說的，因為國民黨黨團的版本、民眾黨黨團的版本對於無人載具\n的定義，譬如說，如果以民眾黨黨團來講，他只有講無人機，他們有包括水域的跟陸域的，國\n民黨的部分寫了很多，但是族繁不及備載，而你看看王定宇委員的第二條，就在我們條文對照\n表第 4頁……","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:11:58.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:12:03.676667+08:00","text":"鍾委員，台灣民眾黨黨團也有，一樣，在同一頁，你看看，台灣民眾黨黨團，不是唯一，是\n唯二喔！","quality":0.472},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:12:04.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:12:05.760000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨黨團也有。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:12:06.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:12:19.923043+08:00","text":"來，我們看一下，他這裡說的：「本條例所稱無人載具，指具備自動導航、遙控或自\n協 10\n主運作能力之無人飛行載具、無人水面載具、無人水下載具、無人地面載具或其他經中央主管\n機關公告指定之載具。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:12:20.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:12:33.760000+08:00","text":"」這樣的內容讓經濟部有這個機會去針對產業的發展，不管是外銷的市\n場，還是我們國內、國軍所需要使用的，都可以涵蓋在裡面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:12:34.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:12:41.676667+08:00","text":"我相信顧部長也好、次長也好，\n應該有看到王委員的版本，尤其是他的第二項還特別仔細提到，跟什麼有區隔？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:12:42.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:12:53.510000+08:00","text":"不包括太空發\n展法所定之發射載具及太空載具，因為目前我們國家在發展飛彈或者太空方面，的確那個就排\n除在這個法令的適用範圍。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-08-26T16:12:54.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:12:57.898889+08:00","text":"所以如果依顧部長所言，建議可以參考王定宇委員的第二條跟第三條，以上。","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:12:58.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:12:59.720000+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:13:00.442222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:13:01.997778+08:00","text":"莊委員，麻煩簡短，謝謝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:13:02.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:13:04.020000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長，我儘量簡短。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:13:04.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:13:21.934286+08:00","text":"其實這 13 個版本，大家再去看一下，真的都是在講國\n防自主，也就是說戰力的形成，既然是戰力的形成的話，我本來以為要討論的是第一條，結果\n大家已經討論到第二條，那附帶要講也可以。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:13:22.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:13:40.038182+08:00","text":"我們去看一下，各黨團請參考一下，災害防救法第三條就講得很清楚了，我們這一部法令，\n從各個黨團代表所提出的版本來看，國防自主的話，只要講國防自主，又涉及到整個產業的發\n展，那不一定要只有一個機關。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:13:40.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:13:45.820000+08:00","text":"關於我們的災害防救法，我跟大家報告，災害防救法涉及的機\n關有幾個？","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:13:46.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:14:35.400000+08:00","text":"各種災害之預防、應變及復原重建，災害防救業務主管機關裡面有內政部；水災、\n旱災、礦災、工業管線的主管機關是經濟部；土石流、大規模崩塌災害、森林火災是農業部；\n空難、海難、陸上交通是交通部；毒性化學物質則是環境部；生物災害是衛福部；輻射又是核\n安委員會；也就是說，一部法令裡面既有產業發展，然後又有國防自主，各個黨團其實不用堅\n持，這已經有先例，我們在災防法裡面還有 7 個主管機關的，所以未必要堅持，內容既然涉及\n第一個講國防自主了嘛！","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:14:35.885714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:14:45.433333+08:00","text":"其實主管機關就一併把國防部放進去，我覺得大家今天就講道理，不\n是壞事情，針對第一條我就先講到這個地方。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:14:45.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:14:53.600000+08:00","text":"但是今天大家討論到這個地方，不要說是保留，而是暫時先討論到這個地方，等一下再回來\n，不然的話，保留就是明天要表決了！","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:14:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:14:57.466667+08:00","text":"賴士葆委員，你要加一句話，是不是？請。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:14:57.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:14:57.933333+08:00","text":"一句話！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:14:58.266667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:15:17.266667+08:00","text":"剛才鍾委員的指教，我仔細讀了，那是等於類似無人載具的沙盒實驗，跟我\n們國、眾兩黨提的促進產業租稅優惠、人才招聘等等完全不一樣，完全不一樣啦！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:15:17.266667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T16:15:18.266667+08:00","text":"……寫國防自主……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-08-26T16:15:17.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:15:21.400000+08:00","text":"完全不一樣，這是不一樣的東西，這個我只是回應剛才鍾委員剛剛所提到的。","quality":0.548},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:15:21.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:15:23.377778+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，我們現在休息 10分鐘，好不好？","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:15:23.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:15:25.350000+08:00","text":"大家休息一下，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:15:25.350000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T16:38:10.712222+08:00","text":"休息（16時 15分）\n繼續開會（16時 38分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:38:10.712222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:38:30.596154+08:00","text":"各位黨團幹部，謝謝，也謝謝行政院所有列席的官員，我們剛才休息了 10 分鐘，繼續又討\n論二十多分鐘，將近半個多小時，各黨團的意見以及列席的委員也都有充分的表達，經濟部跟\n國防部也表達了立場。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:38:30.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:38:42.550000+08:00","text":"協 11\n我想現在這樣子，我們就聚焦在 3 個重點：一、主管單位到底是經濟部還是國防部；二、預\n算是要用特別預算還是年度預算；三、到底要多少經費。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:38:42.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:38:46.600000+08:00","text":"我想我們針對這 3 個焦點歡迎各黨團\n來表達一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:38:46.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:38:52.238889+08:00","text":"如果各位認為還有其他意見要表達，當然也歡迎，但是我們針對這 3 個主題大家\n來討論一下。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:38:52.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:38:56.016667+08:00","text":"我們等一下要宣告，好不好？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:38:58.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:39:00.335000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨黨團要先針對這 3個主題表達意見嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:39:00.335000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T16:39:06.280000+08:00","text":"召委是洪毓祥委員，王委員請，不用客氣。","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-08-26T16:39:06.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:39:16.113333+08:00","text":"基本上，我們台灣民眾黨的版本其實本來寫的就是有兩個主管機關，一個是經濟部，\n一個是國防部。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-08-26T16:39:16.565714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:39:37.994286+08:00","text":"另外，我們經過內部的討論及修正，把國防採購、研發補助、關鍵技術進口、\n資安審查、測試場域劃設等項目由國防部處理，這大概是我們現在新修訂的一個版本。以上。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T16:39:44.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:39:48.480000+08:00","text":"第二點，經費我們還是堅持年度預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T16:39:49.122857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:39:54.146667+08:00","text":"第三個，年度預算就不用寫金額，由行政院、\n國防部按照需求編列。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:39:55.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:40:12.084286+08:00","text":"好，謝謝台灣民眾黨黨團非常清楚的表達意見，希望國防部跟經濟部兩個部會共同主管，至\n於預算就請根據需求編列，堅持要求公務預算、年度預算，對不對？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:40:13.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:40:14.927778+08:00","text":"好，請民進黨黨團表達意\n見。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:40:16.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:40:47.478889+08:00","text":"我想民進黨必須要再次提出來，其實條文之間的設計是連動的，但是第一個，我相信\n我們已經達成共識了，因為涉及到產業發展、供應鏈技術的升級及國產化，主管機關當然就是\n經濟部，這個很明顯；可是涉及到整個如何去部署、如何形成戰力及要買多少，這部分問經濟\n部也怪怪的，所以藉由雙機關的設計，相信大家可以達成一個共識，也非常合理。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:40:47.701111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:41:00.340000+08:00","text":"在立法例上\n，像在災防法裡面的規定甚至都可以拉到七個主管機關，所以我們也尊重台灣民眾黨把整個主\n管機關定為經濟部跟國防部。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:41:02.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:41:54.367778+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨提到，如果編列一般預算的話當然就不會有數字出來\n，這當然是民進黨的優先選項，其實各個版本裡面都在講國防自主，如果可以形成一個跨年度\n、延續性的，讓國防部按照它的專業看要如何去部署，說實在話，其實比較適合特別條例，但\n是因為國民黨跟台灣民眾黨的版本又牽扯到產業發展，立法的目的有所不同，這部分可能大家\n可以再好好的溝通一下，看到底金額要多少，如果是年度預算，當然就沒有金額；如果是特別\n條例的話，當然要設定一個金額。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-26T16:41:54.771818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:41:56.408182+08:00","text":"以上是民進黨黨團的報告。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:41:56.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:42:02.100000+08:00","text":"請國民黨黨團表達意見，個別委員請稍後表達意見，國民黨黨團請，許宇甄委員請。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-08-26T16:42:02.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:42:03.240000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-08-26T16:42:03.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:42:25.601111+08:00","text":"其實國民黨黨團的版本非常清楚，我們就是希望國防自主採購跟產業發展\n能夠並重，所以我們認為主管機關應該要有經濟部，但是我們有一個主辦機關，就是有經濟部\n跟國防部，分別針對所主管的相關產業跟國防的部分能夠共同推動。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-08-26T16:42:26.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:42:27.566923+08:00","text":"為什麼要年度預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-08-26T16:42:27.874615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:43:04.347143+08:00","text":"因為其實編列年度預算的話，每年送來立法院，我們能夠做有效的監督\n，也比較知道我們現在用的相關經費是不是用在真正的需要上面，尤其我們都知道在無人機快\n速迭代的狀況下，其實每一年都需要採購，如果只是用特別預算，固定 6 年採購或是押注在單\n一廠商的做法，風險過高，所以應該要分批採購、滾動修正來維持戰力，也避免在交貨的時候\n早就已經過時的問題，這是我們為什麼堅持要年度預算的原因。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-08-26T16:43:04.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:43:16.090000+08:00","text":"協 12\n第三個，在經費的部分，國民黨黨團也是堅持 2,400億要分 6年編列，一年 400億。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:43:16.090000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T16:43:17.090000+08:00","text":"分 6年，好的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:43:16.607647+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:43:18.372353+08:00","text":"現在個別列席的委員要不要補充表達意見？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:43:19.632857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:43:20.347143+08:00","text":"陳冠廷委員請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T16:43:21.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:43:55.484286+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，我特別再強調一下莊委員剛才所提的，如果是特別預算，當然有這個數字\n，如果是一般預算，理論上是行政部門自己要編列，如果我們再把它擴張到每年要編多少、總\n額是多少，而且許委員特別提到總額限制是 2,400 億，每年編列 400 億，如果國防部使用在無人\n機的年度預算已經超越這個部分的話，那這樣不是就沒有辦法符合第十五條？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T16:43:56.103333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:43:57.603333+08:00","text":"這才是我們比較\n擔心的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T16:43:57.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:07.520000+08:00","text":"而且你們第三條裡面有無人載具的定義，包含旋翼、定翼、垂直起降等無人機，這些\n無人機在其他部會同時也有使用，那也算在這一條嗎？","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:07.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:09.616154+08:00","text":"因為你們寫的是中央政府。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:09.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:15.636667+08:00","text":"所以我是認\n為如果有年度預算的話，假設不得已要編制年度預算，也不應該把數字跟上限規定在裡面。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:17.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:19.753333+08:00","text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員的補充說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:20.053333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:22.205714+08:00","text":"列席的個別委員有沒有補充意見？沒有。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:23.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:29.753333+08:00","text":"部長，我想您的立場剛剛已經表達得非常清楚了，您跟經濟部還有沒有要補充的？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:31.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:34.823333+08:00","text":"如果沒有\n，我要宣告了，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:40.583333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:43.144737+08:00","text":"現在作以下宣告：\n一、有關本案無人機採購條例草案，各黨團未有共識，我們就依協商結論，定於明天院會進\n行處理。","quality":0.413},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:43.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:44:54.983333+08:00","text":"二、明天院會 9 點開始，9 點 30 分各黨團幹部請至議場後方主席辦公室進行議程溝通，10 點\n院會將進行議案之處理及表決。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:44:57.653636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:45:11.156667+08:00","text":"三、本會期我們全體委員及議事人員都備極辛勞，尤其是 8 月，包括預算案的協商、同意權\n案審查、修憲案公聽會、相關議案的表決，幾乎是天天開會。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:45:11.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:45:21.147143+08:00","text":"因此，為求 8 月底最後兩次院會\n通過議案校對的正確性，我們必須給議事人員充足時間。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:45:21.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:45:32.790000+08:00","text":"請議事人員在下會期 9 月 29 號開議日\n前，將本會期 8月份最後兩次院會通過的議案整理、校對完畢後，再咨請總統公布。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:45:33.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T16:45:43.335000+08:00","text":"今天協商到此為止，現在散會，謝謝各位黨團幹部，謝謝各位列席官員。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T16:45:43.835000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T16:45:44.977857+08:00","text":"散會（16時 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