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部會首長請假情形"},{"start":1859.86,"end":1861.82,"text":"報告院會行政院來函"},{"start":1861.82,"end":1865.1,"text":"林政務委員明星下午應試請假"},{"start":1865.1,"end":1868.1399999999999,"text":"馬政務委員永成上午應病請假"},{"start":1868.1399999999999,"end":1871.82,"text":"外交部林部長佳龍本日應公請假"},{"start":1871.82,"end":1874.2199999999998,"text":"由吳次長至中代表列席"},{"start":1874.2199999999998,"end":1877.06,"text":"運動部李部長楊上午應公請假"},{"start":1877.06,"end":1879.78,"text":"由黃次長起房代表列席"},{"start":1879.78,"end":1884.26,"text":"國家科學及技術委員會吳主任委員陳雯"},{"start":1884.26,"end":1885.6599999999999,"text":"上午應公請假"},{"start":1885.6599999999999,"end":1888.58,"text":"由張副主任委員鄭豪代表列席"},{"start":1888.58,"end":1889.34,"text":"報告完畢"},{"start":1890.64,"end":1892.68,"text":"現在請委員配譯質詢"},{"start":1901.53,"end":1902.21,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":1902.21,"end":1904.73,"text":"我請行政院左榮泰院長"},{"start":1904.73,"end":1906.01,"text":"請左院長配詢"},{"start":1917.6599999999999,"end":1918.5,"text":"吳委好"},{"start":1918.5,"end":1919.58,"text":"院長好"},{"start":1919.58,"end":1921.9399999999998,"text":"這個我們社會上很多的年輕人"},{"start":1921.9399999999998,"end":1923.34,"text":"都在關心一件事情"},{"start":1923.34,"end":1925.1399999999999,"text":"就是居住正義"},{"start":1925.1399999999999,"end":1927.1,"text":"那居住正義它包含許多"},{"start":1927.1,"end":1928.3799999999999,"text":"例如過去幾年"},{"start":1928.3799999999999,"end":1932.2199999999998,"text":"我們中央政府大力推動的這個租金的補貼"},{"start":1932.2199999999998,"end":1935.02,"text":"其實給了很多年輕人很大的幫助"},{"start":1935.02,"end":1935.78,"text":"那另外呢"},{"start":1935.78,"end":1938.1,"text":"社會住宅的新辦"},{"start":1938.1,"end":1941.82,"text":"他對於平價租屋也是有很大的幫助"},{"start":1941.82,"end":1944.06,"text":"所以大家很關注的是"},{"start":1944.06,"end":1946.1,"text":"我們賴清德總統上任的時候"},{"start":1946.1399999999999,"end":1947.58,"text":"曾經有提出說"},{"start":1947.58,"end":1948.4599999999998,"text":"8年任內"},{"start":1948.4599999999998,"end":1951.6599999999999,"text":"我們希望可以達到25萬戶住宅"},{"start":1951.6599999999999,"end":1954.4199999999998,"text":"這樣子社會住宅這樣子的目標"},{"start":1954.4199999999998,"end":1955.54,"text":"那其中呢"},{"start":1955.54,"end":1957.1399999999999,"text":"新辦的社會住宅"},{"start":1957.1399999999999,"end":1959.74,"text":"我們希望可以達到13萬戶"},{"start":1959.74,"end":1960.26,"text":"這個"},{"start":1961.1,"end":1962.26,"text":"這個進度呢"},{"start":1962.26,"end":1964.74,"text":"能不能請院長來跟我們說明一下"},{"start":1964.74,"end":1966.58,"text":"我們目前如何來去規劃"},{"start":1967.4,"end":1968.24,"text":"好包括"},{"start":1969.3799999999999,"end":1970.9399999999998,"text":"我們自己新辦的"},{"start":1970.9399999999998,"end":1971.86,"text":"社宅"},{"start":1972.52,"end":1974.56,"text":"還有包租代管"},{"start":1974.56,"end":1975.88,"text":"還有租屋補貼"},{"start":1975.88,"end":1977.72,"text":"這三項我們合計起來"},{"start":1977.72,"end":1980.28,"text":"希望能夠達到百萬的數字"},{"start":1980.28,"end":1981.1200000000001,"text":"那其中"},{"start":1981.1200000000001,"end":1982.6,"text":"自行新辦的這個部分"},{"start":1983.15,"end":1984.39,"text":"賴總統是曾"},{"start":1985.08,"end":1987.12,"text":"之前蔡總統延續下來"},{"start":1987.12,"end":1989,"text":"那希望在賴總統的任內"},{"start":1989,"end":1991.52,"text":"能夠增加13萬戶"},{"start":1991.52,"end":1993.44,"text":"那這個目標沒有改變"},{"start":1993.44,"end":1996.3999999999999,"text":"我們現在正在累積過去到現在"},{"start":1996.3999999999999,"end":1998.24,"text":"已經在發包施工的案件"},{"start":1998.24,"end":1999.52,"text":"大概有3萬戶左右"},{"start":2000.16,"end":2000.92,"text":"那其他的"},{"start":2000.92,"end":2003.64,"text":"我們會用其他多元的方式"},{"start":2003.64,"end":2005.5600000000002,"text":"比方說跟民間"},{"start":2005.5600000000002,"end":2007,"text":"大規模的來取得"},{"start":2007,"end":2010.8400000000001,"text":"或是提供更多的容積的獎勵等等"},{"start":2010.8400000000001,"end":2012.64,"text":"那麼不只由政府的"},{"start":2012.64,"end":2013.88,"text":"這個公務的預算"},{"start":2013.88,"end":2017.0400000000002,"text":"或是公家的這個經費來從事"},{"start":2017.0400000000002,"end":2018.48,"text":"而希望能夠結合民間"},{"start":2018.48,"end":2020.0400000000002,"text":"這樣效率能夠更快"},{"start":2020.0400000000002,"end":2021.2,"text":"速度能夠更多"},{"start":2021.2,"end":2022.72,"text":"數量也能夠更多"},{"start":2022.72,"end":2024.0800000000002,"text":"所以這個部分的執行"},{"start":2024.0800000000002,"end":2025.5600000000002,"text":"我們沒有改變"},{"start":2025.5600000000002,"end":2028.8400000000001,"text":"原來新辦13萬戶的這個最終目標"},{"start":2029.51,"end":2032.67,"text":"因為確實我們在要去新建"},{"start":2032.67,"end":2035.3500000000001,"text":"就新的要蓋新的社會住宅的時候"},{"start":2035.3500000000001,"end":2037.23,"text":"常常遇到比較大的困難是"},{"start":2037.23,"end":2038.67,"text":"這個土地的區的"},{"start":2038.67,"end":2040.1100000000001,"text":"哪裡找得到地呢"},{"start":2040.1100000000001,"end":2041.95,"text":"確實是比較大的困難"},{"start":2041.95,"end":2043.55,"text":"所以大家有時候會擔心說"},{"start":2043.55,"end":2044.95,"text":"那如果我們找不到地"},{"start":2044.95,"end":2046.15,"text":"或是地不好找"},{"start":2046.15,"end":2047.59,"text":"會不會就"},{"start":2047.59,"end":2049.43,"text":"沒有辦法去蓋新的住宅"},{"start":2049.43,"end":2050.71,"text":"那所以我們也很努力的"},{"start":2050.71,"end":2051.87,"text":"透過多元的方式"},{"start":2051.87,"end":2053.79,"text":"例如包租代管是一種"},{"start":2053.79,"end":2055.55,"text":"然後或是說現在有新建的"},{"start":2055.55,"end":2056.71,"text":"例如說都更"},{"start":2056.71,"end":2058.79,"text":"危老的分回也是一種"},{"start":2058.79,"end":2062.0299999999997,"text":"所以目前光是新辦的社會住宅"},{"start":2062.0299999999997,"end":2063.0299999999997,"text":"13萬戶"},{"start":2063.0299999999997,"end":2064.83,"text":"仍然是我們設定的目標"},{"start":2064.83,"end":2065.71,"text":"是的"},{"start":2065.71,"end":2066.23,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":2066.23,"end":2068.23,"text":"那這個部分就要拜託院長"},{"start":2068.23,"end":2069.67,"text":"也拜託部長"},{"start":2069.67,"end":2072.31,"text":"是我們可以持續的往這個目標來進行"},{"start":2072.31,"end":2073.83,"text":"那另外在我的選區"},{"start":2073.83,"end":2075.23,"text":"中正萬華區"},{"start":2075.23,"end":2077.27,"text":"過去國防部在這裡有一塊土地"},{"start":2077.27,"end":2079.0299999999997,"text":"叫做9號基地"},{"start":2079.0299999999997,"end":2082.39,"text":"那由內政部的這個國駐都中心"},{"start":2082.39,"end":2083.83,"text":"這個我今天就請教"},{"start":2083.83,"end":2085.99,"text":"內政部的這個國駐都中心"},{"start":2085.99,"end":2087.43,"text":"所以這個"},{"start":2090.0099999999998,"end":2091.61,"text":"郭部長可以請回座"},{"start":2091.61,"end":2092.13,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2092.13,"end":2093.25,"text":"就是說"},{"start":2093.25,"end":2095.77,"text":"這個過去從林昌州委員任內的時候"},{"start":2095.77,"end":2096.93,"text":"就很關心"},{"start":2096.93,"end":2098.25,"text":"那土地雖然是國防部"},{"start":2098.25,"end":2100.5699999999997,"text":"但是目前由內政部來核定"},{"start":2100.5699999999997,"end":2101.73,"text":"來新建社宅"},{"start":2101.73,"end":2104.37,"text":"由國駐都中心來去規劃"},{"start":2104.37,"end":2107.49,"text":"那我從我2024年進到立法院來了"},{"start":2107.49,"end":2108.73,"text":"所以謝謝內政部"},{"start":2108.73,"end":2110.21,"text":"也謝謝駐都中心"},{"start":2110.21,"end":2112.13,"text":"多次的來到我們的地方"},{"start":2112.13,"end":2114.0499999999997,"text":"跟社區進行討論"},{"start":2114.0499999999997,"end":2115.97,"text":"那因為在這裡要"},{"start":2115.97,"end":2117.81,"text":"我們要用這個"},{"start":2117.89,"end":2119.97,"text":"多根的方式來去蓋社宅"},{"start":2119.97,"end":2121.17,"text":"那必須要跟"},{"start":2121.17,"end":2122.25,"text":"台北市政府"},{"start":2122.25,"end":2124.49,"text":"也要透過台北市政府的都審會"},{"start":2124.49,"end":2125.41,"text":"審查通過"},{"start":2125.41,"end":2126.77,"text":"才能夠來新建"},{"start":2126.77,"end":2128.17,"text":"過去在談的當中"},{"start":2128.17,"end":2130.09,"text":"我遇到了一些狀況跟困難"},{"start":2130.09,"end":2132.17,"text":"能不能請這個院長或是部長"},{"start":2132.17,"end":2133.37,"text":"能不能向我們說明"},{"start":2133.37,"end":2134.85,"text":"目前的進度如何"},{"start":2134.85,"end":2137.37,"text":"那我們什麼時候有辦法來去送建"},{"start":2137.37,"end":2139.5299999999997,"text":"因為這是大家非常關心的"},{"start":2139.5299999999997,"end":2140.41,"text":"報告吳委員"},{"start":2140.41,"end":2142.45,"text":"吳委員從這個民意代表的時候"},{"start":2142.45,"end":2144.37,"text":"就非常關心這一塊"},{"start":2144.37,"end":2146.65,"text":"那我先跟我吳委員講一個比較"},{"start":2147.4900000000002,"end":2149.53,"text":"就是說我們在9月22的時候"},{"start":2149.53,"end":2152.4100000000003,"text":"已經把這個評估報告給台北市政府"},{"start":2152.4100000000003,"end":2153.57,"text":"那未來台北市政府"},{"start":2153.57,"end":2156.37,"text":"如果他要用公辦的都更的方式的話"},{"start":2156.37,"end":2159.21,"text":"我們也可以分回取得一部分的社會住宅"},{"start":2159.21,"end":2163.01,"text":"那這個很符合現在賴總統跟蔡總統以前程序下來"},{"start":2163.01,"end":2166.57,"text":"就是說未來我們要辦理這個社會住宅新建的時候"},{"start":2166.57,"end":2168.29,"text":"以多元取得為主"},{"start":2168.29,"end":2170.37,"text":"那如果有這個公辦都更的話"},{"start":2170.37,"end":2171.9300000000003,"text":"在土地的取得上面"},{"start":2171.9300000000003,"end":2174.65,"text":"就不用再從原來完全樹地上面取得"},{"start":2174.65,"end":2176.21,"text":"這是一個很好的方向"},{"start":2176.25,"end":2179.65,"text":"那後續我們會再督促台北市的這個都更處"},{"start":2179.65,"end":2183.25,"text":"如果他們願意在明年可以辦理招標新建的話"},{"start":2183.25,"end":2186.13,"text":"包括這個分回社宅的部分"},{"start":2186.13,"end":2190.09,"text":"可能在容積獎勵上面的這個國家住宅中心這邊"},{"start":2190.09,"end":2191.65,"text":"或者是國土署這邊"},{"start":2191.65,"end":2194.73,"text":"或是國防部可以取得一半的社會住宅"},{"start":2195.44,"end":2198.48,"text":"這部分我就要拜託部長拜託內政部"},{"start":2198.48,"end":2202.8,"text":"可以跟台北市政府再去再更積極的來進行協調"},{"start":2202.8,"end":2207.08,"text":"因為以我所知像過去我們光是這個在這個地上"},{"start":2207.08,"end":2208.44,"text":"本來是還有地上物的"},{"start":2208.44,"end":2211.84,"text":"因為這是過去我們這個榮卷的這個住宿"},{"start":2211.84,"end":2213.04,"text":"我們光是要拆"},{"start":2213.79,"end":2216.4700000000003,"text":"光是拆造跟台北市政府建管處"},{"start":2216.4700000000003,"end":2219.43,"text":"在這個申請送件就拖了好幾個月"},{"start":2219.43,"end":2221.87,"text":"那是我還要去拜託我們在地的議員"},{"start":2221.87,"end":2224.23,"text":"來找市政府出來開協調會"},{"start":2224.23,"end":2226.19,"text":"所以呢光是我們拆"},{"start":2226.19,"end":2229.55,"text":"就是都長長時間都一再的去延宕"},{"start":2229.55,"end":2232.11,"text":"那我們附近的鄰居大家真的很關心"},{"start":2232.11,"end":2234.55,"text":"因為這一個九號基地委跟院長報告"},{"start":2234.55,"end":2236.39,"text":"是從我小的時候"},{"start":2236.39,"end":2237.9900000000002,"text":"大家就在聽說"},{"start":2237.9900000000002,"end":2241.07,"text":"這個閒置的國防部在閒置在這裡的房舍"},{"start":2241.07,"end":2243.07,"text":"有一天應該會拆掉"},{"start":2243.07,"end":2244.8700000000003,"text":"那有一天應該會新建"},{"start":2244.8700000000003,"end":2247.11,"text":"但是從我小的時候一直到現在"},{"start":2247.11,"end":2249.15,"text":"我即將就要滿40歲了"},{"start":2249.15,"end":2250.31,"text":"到現在"},{"start":2250.31,"end":2253.11,"text":"他還才剛剛拆完而已"},{"start":2253.11,"end":2255.71,"text":"所以呢這真的是要拜託院長"},{"start":2255.71,"end":2258.51,"text":"我知道說這個很多是需要跟台北市政府來協調"},{"start":2258.51,"end":2260.75,"text":"要拜託你們來去積極的溝通"},{"start":2260.75,"end":2262.75,"text":"那有需要我們協助的地方"},{"start":2262.75,"end":2263.75,"text":"我們也會盡力"},{"start":2263.75,"end":2265.31,"text":"非常的希望在這個地方"},{"start":2265.31,"end":2268.23,"text":"我們可以有一個這個新的活化的空間"},{"start":2268.23,"end":2270.15,"text":"可以早日的讓居民看見"},{"start":2270.15,"end":2272.51,"text":"報告委員我想您講得非常的正確"},{"start":2272.51,"end":2274.63,"text":"其實我們在土地活用上面"},{"start":2274.63,"end":2277.3500000000004,"text":"在公辦都更是一個可行的方向"},{"start":2277.3500000000004,"end":2279.3900000000003,"text":"所以呢我們已經把都更危老條例"},{"start":2279.3900000000003,"end":2280.23,"text":"在行政院通過"},{"start":2280.23,"end":2281.7900000000004,"text":"這已經送到立法院過來"},{"start":2281.7900000000004,"end":2284.67,"text":"包括未來在容積的獎勵上面"},{"start":2284.67,"end":2286.4300000000003,"text":"或者是在權力變換上面"},{"start":2286.4300000000003,"end":2287.9900000000002,"text":"怎麼樣讓原住戶"},{"start":2287.9900000000002,"end":2289.3100000000004,"text":"或是未來的住戶"},{"start":2289.3100000000004,"end":2291.07,"text":"可以得到雙贏的效果"},{"start":2291.07,"end":2292.67,"text":"那也必須要修法"},{"start":2292.67,"end":2295.67,"text":"來確定我們未來走的都更的方向"},{"start":2295.67,"end":2297.59,"text":"會比較這個順利一點"},{"start":2297.59,"end":2298.9500000000003,"text":"那我們也會鼓勵"},{"start":2298.9500000000003,"end":2300.2700000000004,"text":"願意參加都更的人"},{"start":2300.31,"end":2302.99,"text":"可以取得第一統計的這個做權力變換"},{"start":2302.99,"end":2304.95,"text":"那這個部分就要勞煩這個"},{"start":2304.95,"end":2306.35,"text":"委員在立法院裡面"},{"start":2306.35,"end":2309.71,"text":"能夠多多來督促推動這個都更條例的修正"},{"start":2309.71,"end":2311.5099999999998,"text":"是好那接下來呢"},{"start":2311.5099999999998,"end":2313.55,"text":"我要跟院長請教的是"},{"start":2313.55,"end":2317.07,"text":"這個也是我們非常關心的是社會救助法"},{"start":2317.07,"end":2319.99,"text":"那社會救助法從我進到立法院的第一年"},{"start":2319.99,"end":2322.87,"text":"其實我就有提出來我的草案的版本"},{"start":2322.87,"end":2325.31,"text":"那我們立法院的林月琴委員"},{"start":2325.31,"end":2327.67,"text":"也已經有排案審查了"},{"start":2327.67,"end":2328.83,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":2329.5499999999997,"end":2330.99,"text":"包括我在內很多的委員"},{"start":2330.99,"end":2332.27,"text":"還有很多的團體"},{"start":2332.27,"end":2333.39,"text":"其實一再的關切"},{"start":2333.39,"end":2335.67,"text":"因為社救法其實在上個會期"},{"start":2335.67,"end":2337.99,"text":"就是我們行政院的優先法案"},{"start":2337.99,"end":2339.0299999999997,"text":"那一度呢"},{"start":2339.0299999999997,"end":2341.35,"text":"我們有得到承諾說上個月"},{"start":2341.35,"end":2345.27,"text":"上個會期會送到立法院來這個審查"},{"start":2345.27,"end":2348.59,"text":"那現在民間團體還在關心說"},{"start":2348.59,"end":2351.5099999999998,"text":"這個行政院什麼時候才會送案進來呢"},{"start":2351.5099999999998,"end":2353.83,"text":"那我們第一個關切是進度"},{"start":2353.83,"end":2357.27,"text":"第二個是為什麼社救法的修法這麼的重要"},{"start":2357.31,"end":2360.95,"text":"因為我的選區在臺北市的萬華中正區"},{"start":2360.95,"end":2363.43,"text":"所以我們臺北市街有主要聚集的地方"},{"start":2363.43,"end":2365.23,"text":"一個是在臺北車站"},{"start":2365.23,"end":2367.79,"text":"一個是在龍山寺前面的蒙甲公園"},{"start":2367.79,"end":2369.35,"text":"正好都在我的選區"},{"start":2369.35,"end":2372.39,"text":"所以過去我們跟在地的這個社福團體"},{"start":2372.39,"end":2374.55,"text":"還有地方的里長也都幫忙很多"},{"start":2374.55,"end":2379.39,"text":"長期的都是在關心這個無家者我們的救助"},{"start":2379.39,"end":2383.15,"text":"因為他不是只有這個安置住宿而已"},{"start":2383.15,"end":2385.19,"text":"他還包括他生活重建"},{"start":2385.23,"end":2388.11,"text":"怎麼樣能夠勞動部衛福部內政部"},{"start":2388.11,"end":2390.23,"text":"通通跨部會的都要進來"},{"start":2390.23,"end":2393.31,"text":"怎麼樣來可以協助他們可以早日的拖油"},{"start":2393.31,"end":2394.75,"text":"可以來獲得就業"},{"start":2394.75,"end":2398.79,"text":"甚至他在街頭上面需要的醫療健康等等這些的幫助"},{"start":2398.79,"end":2400.39,"text":"其實是需要跨部會的"},{"start":2400.39,"end":2404.23,"text":"所以在議法上面確實有需要做制度上面的修改"},{"start":2404.23,"end":2407.39,"text":"另外第二個是我要特別跟院長報告的是"},{"start":2407.39,"end":2412.27,"text":"我們常遇到的狀況是這個地方政府之間的分工"},{"start":2412.27,"end":2414.87,"text":"例如說在我們萬華這個街有"},{"start":2414.91,"end":2418.47,"text":"社會局調查起來有七成以上都是"},{"start":2418.75,"end":2422.23,"text":"臺北市以外的縣市的這個戶籍"},{"start":2422.23,"end":2425.1099999999997,"text":"來自於其他的縣市來到我們臺北"},{"start":2425.39,"end":2427.75,"text":"那麼他的這個街友的輔助"},{"start":2427.75,"end":2432.31,"text":"這件事情究竟是他原戶籍地的縣市政府要來輔導"},{"start":2432.39,"end":2435.0299999999997,"text":"還是他現在所在地的臺北市政府"},{"start":2435.0699999999997,"end":2439.15,"text":"過去在縣市政府之間常常就發生了踢皮球的狀況"},{"start":2439.23,"end":2442.5899999999997,"text":"所以我們變成也這個部分我也要謝謝衛福部"},{"start":2442.63,"end":2445.55,"text":"剛進來的時候拜託衛福部召開了一個專案會議"},{"start":2445.59,"end":2448.07,"text":"就是邀請了臺北市新北市"},{"start":2448.07,"end":2451.55,"text":"還有甚至桃園跟基隆的社會局一起來討論"},{"start":2451.59,"end":2455.75,"text":"就是就我現在目前是所在我們臺北市"},{"start":2455.75,"end":2460.4700000000003,"text":"但真的是桃園或是基隆新北戶籍地的這些五家者"},{"start":2460.4700000000003,"end":2463.27,"text":"這請各縣市政府必須誰來做都好"},{"start":2463.31,"end":2464.75,"text":"但是一定要有人來做"},{"start":2464.79,"end":2467.07,"text":"因為我們現行的狀況就是這個法規"},{"start":2467.66,"end":2470.22,"text":"不夠周全跟晚輩"},{"start":2470.2599999999998,"end":2474.06,"text":"所以導致於很多需要幫助的他現在沒有辦法被接住"},{"start":2474.1,"end":2475.8999999999996,"text":"所以這個部分第一個我想請教"},{"start":2475.94,"end":2478.7,"text":"我們社會救助法的這個修法的草案"},{"start":2478.74,"end":2480.8999999999996,"text":"這個會請會不會送到理法院來"},{"start":2480.94,"end":2484.1,"text":"那裡面有沒有關於五家者輔助的專章"},{"start":2484.3799999999997,"end":2488.42,"text":"好謝謝委員關心社會最弱勢的這一群朋友"},{"start":2488.58,"end":2491.2599999999998,"text":"我們在未來社會救助法當中"},{"start":2491.2599999999998,"end":2493.5,"text":"我們會把它證明它就是街友"},{"start":2493.54,"end":2496.02,"text":"不會用其他的名聲來成功他們"},{"start":2496.06,"end":2497.1,"text":"他們就是街友"},{"start":2497.3399999999997,"end":2501.2599999999998,"text":"那因為今年8月上旬左右"},{"start":2501.2999999999997,"end":2503.8199999999997,"text":"我也再度聽取了衛福部送來的報告"},{"start":2503.86,"end":2508.62,"text":"那當中我們做了一些重要性的一些再度的商討"},{"start":2508.66,"end":2512.9,"text":"那我知道要盡快的能夠讓大院能夠來審議這個工作"},{"start":2512.94,"end":2515.7,"text":"所以我們除了名稱把它定位之外"},{"start":2515.74,"end":2518.06,"text":"另外對於人籍合一這個部分"},{"start":2518.1,"end":2520.7799999999997,"text":"也把它除開這樣的規定"},{"start":2520.8199999999997,"end":2523.9,"text":"以後不會再把它強硬規定一定要人籍合一"},{"start":2523.94,"end":2524.7799999999997,"text":"就鬆綁"},{"start":2526.17,"end":2527.77,"text":"人跟戶籍不在同一個地方"},{"start":2527.81,"end":2531.17,"text":"在當地政府應該可以受到一樣的照顧"},{"start":2531.21,"end":2535.17,"text":"另外就是我們也希望採取一個能夠階段性的脫貧"},{"start":2535.21,"end":2538.05,"text":"比方說你未來再進入到職場裡面的工作"},{"start":2538.09,"end":2540.9300000000003,"text":"一定的時間不會把因為工作所得"},{"start":2540.9700000000003,"end":2545.29,"text":"就去傷害或是減緩或是取消你原來社會救助"},{"start":2545.33,"end":2547.33,"text":"給你的各項補助的條件"},{"start":2547.37,"end":2551.57,"text":"這樣鼓勵大家能夠進到一個正常社會工作的環境底下"},{"start":2551.61,"end":2552.4500000000003,"text":"去做努力"},{"start":2552.4900000000002,"end":2554.4100000000003,"text":"同時如果是學生畢業之後"},{"start":2554.4500000000003,"end":2555.61,"text":"也在一定的時間"},{"start":2555.65,"end":2559.01,"text":"你的收入所得也不會進入這樣的計算"},{"start":2559.05,"end":2563.77,"text":"我們把它擴大整體是一個範圍時間對象等等"},{"start":2563.81,"end":2566.09,"text":"另外就是如何用多元的方式"},{"start":2566.13,"end":2568.29,"text":"來協助這些進評的朋友"},{"start":2568.33,"end":2572.4900000000002,"text":"我們除了金錢的補助等等之外"},{"start":2572.53,"end":2576.05,"text":"實務的協助也會把它列為一個重要的一環"},{"start":2576.09,"end":2578.65,"text":"所以我們已經請衛福部在大陸"},{"start":2579.9,"end":2582.5,"text":"大規模大方向的再做最後的確認"},{"start":2582.54,"end":2584.7400000000002,"text":"那是不是更細節的部分請"},{"start":2584.78,"end":2586.1800000000003,"text":"史務長來做簡要的說明"},{"start":2586.2200000000003,"end":2588.5,"text":"好 謝謝委員的捶詢"},{"start":2588.54,"end":2589.9,"text":"關於街友的部分"},{"start":2589.94,"end":2591.86,"text":"先說明在分工的部分"},{"start":2591.9,"end":2593.7400000000002,"text":"我們就把它明確的訂定"},{"start":2593.78,"end":2598.5,"text":"服務就是它的居住地所在地的縣市政府來負責"},{"start":2598.54,"end":2602.1400000000003,"text":"那麼福利的申請才有戶籍地"},{"start":2602.1800000000003,"end":2605.26,"text":"但是未來在申請的時候就不需要人籍合一"},{"start":2605.3,"end":2606.78,"text":"那麼都可以申請"},{"start":2606.82,"end":2608.54,"text":"所以這個是第一個"},{"start":2608.58,"end":2609.82,"text":"第二個在街友"},{"start":2609.86,"end":2613.42,"text":"我們未來社交法的修正之後"},{"start":2613.46,"end":2616.42,"text":"我們就會有一個街友的輔導辦法"},{"start":2616.46,"end":2618.5,"text":"那麼讓他所需要的各項"},{"start":2618.54,"end":2622.02,"text":"不論是緊急輔助、醫療、服務、生活"},{"start":2622.06,"end":2623.62,"text":"支持、致力協助等等"},{"start":2623.66,"end":2625.7799999999997,"text":"都有一個統一的規範"},{"start":2625.82,"end":2629.02,"text":"讓各縣市也都能夠齊一來協助"},{"start":2629.06,"end":2631.58,"text":"那麼另外在這個"},{"start":2632.35,"end":2636.0699999999997,"text":"各項的計算加護所得"},{"start":2636.11,"end":2638.19,"text":"它的資格認定的部分"},{"start":2638.23,"end":2640.5499999999997,"text":"那麼我們也會大幅的放寬"},{"start":2640.5899999999997,"end":2643.11,"text":"所以按照我們的估計"},{"start":2643.15,"end":2646.47,"text":"那麼我們符合照顧對象"},{"start":2646.5099999999998,"end":2649.0299999999997,"text":"會從現行的大概55萬"},{"start":2649.0699999999997,"end":2653.99,"text":"這個2.26%會大幅的提高到88萬人左右"},{"start":2654.0299999999997,"end":2656.35,"text":"大概在3.76%"},{"start":2656.39,"end":2658.0299999999997,"text":"所以這個也是我們"},{"start":2658.0699999999997,"end":2660.71,"text":"這個社交法未來會擴大服務"},{"start":2660.75,"end":2664.27,"text":"那麼另外再有這個食物的服務專章"},{"start":2664.31,"end":2666.03,"text":"這也是大家很關心的"},{"start":2666.07,"end":2669.71,"text":"所以簡單的再跟委員再補充這幾點"},{"start":2669.75,"end":2670.87,"text":"好 謝謝部長"},{"start":2670.91,"end":2672.63,"text":"因為我看到新聞有一個標"},{"start":2672.67,"end":2675.19,"text":"他說這個團體憂慮"},{"start":2675.8,"end":2679.5600000000004,"text":"這個衛福部的社救法的承諾跳票"},{"start":2679.6000000000004,"end":2680.6000000000004,"text":"所以我想要請教"},{"start":2680.6400000000003,"end":2682.76,"text":"我們這個會期社救法修法"},{"start":2682.8,"end":2684.44,"text":"會不會送到立法院來"},{"start":2684.48,"end":2686.0800000000004,"text":"我們在做最後的整理"},{"start":2686.1200000000003,"end":2687.76,"text":"那麼還有一些這個"},{"start":2687.8,"end":2689.0400000000004,"text":"我要拜託一下"},{"start":2689.0800000000004,"end":2691.1200000000003,"text":"真的已經等好多年了"},{"start":2691.1600000000003,"end":2692.92,"text":"那我知道有很多細節要討論"},{"start":2692.96,"end":2695.1200000000003,"text":"請這個會期請儘速送進來"},{"start":2695.1600000000003,"end":2697.5200000000004,"text":"我們可以開始來進行審查好不好"},{"start":2697.5600000000004,"end":2698.28,"text":"那最後一點是"},{"start":2698.32,"end":2699.5600000000004,"text":"因為我們即將要審查"},{"start":2699.6000000000004,"end":2701.0400000000004,"text":"最佳預算6000億"},{"start":2701.0800000000004,"end":2702.0400000000004,"text":"我覺得非常重要"},{"start":2702.0800000000004,"end":2705.28,"text":"因為關於軍工教的專業加級"},{"start":2705.28,"end":2706.5600000000004,"text":"這個社會的人數"},{"start":2706.6000000000004,"end":2708.1200000000003,"text":"大概有超過37萬人"},{"start":2708.1600000000003,"end":2709.4,"text":"將近40萬人"},{"start":2709.44,"end":2711.2000000000003,"text":"我想請教一下這個院長"},{"start":2711.2400000000002,"end":2712.7200000000003,"text":"我們在這個教師裡面"},{"start":2712.76,"end":2713.8,"text":"這個代理教師"},{"start":2713.84,"end":2717.1600000000003,"text":"有沒有納入這一波專業加級的對象"},{"start":2717.2000000000003,"end":2719.2400000000002,"text":"因為這個好多老師在關心"},{"start":2719.28,"end":2722.0400000000004,"text":"我們先調整的是導師職務加級"},{"start":2722.0800000000004,"end":2725,"text":"還有兼任及代課老師的終點費"},{"start":2725.0400000000004,"end":2728.52,"text":"另外就是這個兼任行政工作的獎金"},{"start":2728.5600000000004,"end":2729.5600000000004,"text":"這幾個部分"},{"start":2729.6000000000004,"end":2732.84,"text":"我們已經都有明確的一個政策跟"},{"start":2732.88,"end":2734.1600000000003,"text":"至於代課老師部分"},{"start":2734.16,"end":2736.48,"text":"還在請這個教育部"},{"start":2736.52,"end":2740.6,"text":"能夠再跟地方政府也能夠多多的謝謝"},{"start":2740.64,"end":2741.68,"text":"好請部長說明"},{"start":2741.72,"end":2742.16,"text":"要"},{"start":2742.2,"end":2745.8399999999997,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們代理教師的一些權益"},{"start":2745.8799999999997,"end":2749.08,"text":"其實我們現在高級中等以下學校的"},{"start":2749.12,"end":2751.7599999999998,"text":"這個間待科代理老師的聘任辦法"},{"start":2751.7999999999997,"end":2753.3999999999996,"text":"第16條就有規定"},{"start":2753.44,"end":2755.8799999999997,"text":"代理老師他的所有的這個代理"},{"start":2755.92,"end":2759.24,"text":"包含本薪加級跟獎金的資給"},{"start":2759.2799999999997,"end":2761.48,"text":"是比照專任老師"},{"start":2761.52,"end":2762.12,"text":"沒有錯"},{"start":2762.12,"end":2763.16,"text":"所以在這一波裡面"},{"start":2763.2,"end":2765.52,"text":"所以這一次的一個專業的加級"},{"start":2765.56,"end":2768.24,"text":"他也是納進在裡面是比照的"},{"start":2768.2799999999997,"end":2769.92,"text":"對這個因為很多代理老師在關心"},{"start":2769.96,"end":2770.72,"text":"所以教育部請"},{"start":2770.7599999999998,"end":2771.6,"text":"是沒有問題的"},{"start":2771.64,"end":2773.04,"text":"盡快的來去說明"},{"start":2773.08,"end":2774.8399999999997,"text":"所以也在我們這一波專業加級裡面"},{"start":2774.88,"end":2775.24,"text":"很重要"},{"start":2775.2799999999997,"end":2777.12,"text":"因為台北市代理老師太多了"},{"start":2777.16,"end":2778.4,"text":"那最後我要提醒的是"},{"start":2778.44,"end":2781.12,"text":"因為這一波也包含了大學附設醫院"},{"start":2781.16,"end":2783.44,"text":"但是附設醫院裡面有很多是勞基法人員"},{"start":2783.48,"end":2785.7999999999997,"text":"例如說馬最師附鑑師"},{"start":2785.8399999999997,"end":2788.44,"text":"他目前還沒有在我們的這個對象當中"},{"start":2788.48,"end":2790.96,"text":"那其實我覺得這個部分很重要"},{"start":2791,"end":2794.68,"text":"能不能請院長來去幫忙去協調跟盤點"},{"start":2794.7200000000003,"end":2797.16,"text":"就究竟我們在這一波大學附設醫院裡面"},{"start":2797.2,"end":2799.28,"text":"有多少的這些勞基法人員"},{"start":2799.32,"end":2800.96,"text":"有沒有機會來配套"},{"start":2801,"end":2804.76,"text":"一起來加入這一波的專業加級的適用對象裡面"},{"start":2804.8,"end":2806.56,"text":"大學裡面的"},{"start":2806.6,"end":2808.88,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個關心"},{"start":2808.92,"end":2811.6,"text":"確實我們現在大學附設的"},{"start":2811.64,"end":2813.2400000000002,"text":"附設醫院這些勞基"},{"start":2813.28,"end":2814.64,"text":"醫區勞基法的人員"},{"start":2814.68,"end":2816.44,"text":"因為我們已經在跟台大"},{"start":2816.48,"end":2818.68,"text":"因為教育部所屬的台大"},{"start":2818.68,"end":2822.12,"text":"有這個成功大學跟陽明教大附設的醫院"},{"start":2860.68,"end":2862.48,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":2863.47,"end":2865.95,"text":"下一位我們請洪孟台委員諮詢"},{"start":2889.05,"end":2890.01,"text":"好 仔細謝謝"},{"start":2890.05,"end":2891.25,"text":"麻煩請總統台院長"},{"start":2892.98,"end":2894.42,"text":"請總院長回席"},{"start":2904.07,"end":2904.71,"text":"洪委員好"},{"start":2904.75,"end":2905.75,"text":"院長好 院長"},{"start":2906.34,"end":2909.26,"text":"2026年剩兩個多月的時間"},{"start":2909.3,"end":2911.46,"text":"那過去四年"},{"start":2911.5,"end":2915.42,"text":"我們年度台灣都會選出年度代表制"},{"start":2915.46,"end":2916.78,"text":"2022年"},{"start":2916.82,"end":2917.6600000000003,"text":"我們就回顧一下"},{"start":2917.7000000000003,"end":2919.86,"text":"2022年年度代表制是"},{"start":2920.87,"end":2921.5099999999998,"text":"您知道嗎"},{"start":2922.59,"end":2925.15,"text":"萬物皆長 物價上漲的漲"},{"start":2925.19,"end":2929.11,"text":"2023年年度代表制是缺"},{"start":2929.15,"end":2931.15,"text":"缺水缺電的缺"},{"start":2931.19,"end":2934.19,"text":"2024年年度代表制叫貪"},{"start":2934.23,"end":2937.03,"text":"貪官枉法 貪官無理的貪"},{"start":2937.07,"end":2939.19,"text":"2025年叫做罷"},{"start":2939.23,"end":2940.59,"text":"大罷免大惡罷的罷"},{"start":2941.3,"end":2945.42,"text":"到2026年還剩兩個多月的時間"},{"start":2945.46,"end":2946.94,"text":"院長有沒有心目中你認為"},{"start":2946.98,"end":2949.0600000000004,"text":"今年台灣年度代表制會是什麼"},{"start":2949.1000000000004,"end":2949.42,"text":"拼"},{"start":2950.66,"end":2951.22,"text":"拼啊"},{"start":2951.2599999999998,"end":2951.94,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":2951.98,"end":2953.14,"text":"大家都很拼"},{"start":2953.18,"end":2954.18,"text":"很拼 拼什麼"},{"start":2954.79,"end":2957.35,"text":"拼經濟拼科技拼發展"},{"start":2958.05,"end":2959.01,"text":"然後有拼政治"},{"start":2959.66,"end":2961.8599999999997,"text":"因為我看您六日也是趴趴走"},{"start":2961.9,"end":2964.06,"text":"為很多民進黨的候選人來服選"},{"start":2964.1,"end":2965.98,"text":"不過沒關係 大家都有分工"},{"start":2966.02,"end":2967.3399999999997,"text":"院長 來"},{"start":2967.38,"end":2968.54,"text":"很多人講是說"},{"start":2968.58,"end":2970.1,"text":"可能跟民眾的感受"},{"start":2970.14,"end":2971.58,"text":"不一定那麼一致"},{"start":2971.62,"end":2972.62,"text":"因為很多人講說"},{"start":2972.66,"end":2975.2599999999998,"text":"有可能2026年年度代表制會是毒"},{"start":2975.99,"end":2978.0699999999997,"text":"毒 毒價的毒"},{"start":2978.1099999999997,"end":2980.1899999999996,"text":"因為之前毒品駕車事件"},{"start":2980.23,"end":2982.31,"text":"真的是高居不下"},{"start":2982.35,"end":2983.79,"text":"現在已經在下環了"},{"start":2983.83,"end":2986.43,"text":"毒油 7月8月毒油之亂"},{"start":2986.47,"end":2989.1499999999996,"text":"確實讓全台灣的民眾人心惶惶"},{"start":2989.1899999999996,"end":2991.0699999999997,"text":"還有毒品的問題"},{"start":2991.1099999999997,"end":2993.0299999999997,"text":"所以我想先請教一下院長"},{"start":2993.0699999999997,"end":2995.31,"text":"台灣是不是一個毒品零容忍的國家"},{"start":2995.35,"end":2997.1899999999996,"text":"是 我們可以拼凡毒"},{"start":2997.23,"end":2999.43,"text":"我們一定會毒品零容忍"},{"start":2999.47,"end":2999.83,"text":"對不對"},{"start":2999.87,"end":3000.6299999999997,"text":"是 好"},{"start":3000.6699999999996,"end":3002.83,"text":"那對於現在我們看到有"},{"start":3004.76,"end":3006,"text":"執政黨的委員"},{"start":3006.0400000000004,"end":3007.8,"text":"過去主張講說"},{"start":3007.84,"end":3010.0800000000004,"text":"我們應該要仿效其他國家"},{"start":3010.1200000000003,"end":3011.5600000000004,"text":"建立社區中心"},{"start":3011.6000000000004,"end":3014.6000000000004,"text":"提供吸毒者毒品跟乾淨的針頭"},{"start":3014.6400000000003,"end":3015.28,"text":"你認同嗎"},{"start":3016.5299999999997,"end":3017.89,"text":"台北市目前的狀況"},{"start":3017.93,"end":3020.6099999999997,"text":"有34家社區藥局"},{"start":3020.6499999999996,"end":3022.0899999999997,"text":"在做這樣的工作"},{"start":3022.1299999999997,"end":3023.6499999999996,"text":"有提供毒品給人家嗎"},{"start":3023.6899999999996,"end":3024.85,"text":"有十九"},{"start":3024.89,"end":3026.1299999999997,"text":"我們現在美沙東"},{"start":3026.1699999999996,"end":3027.1299999999997,"text":"就是二級管制品"},{"start":3027.1699999999996,"end":3028.45,"text":"有提供毒品給"},{"start":3028.49,"end":3030.25,"text":"美沙東算是藥品還是毒品"},{"start":3030.29,"end":3031.85,"text":"那是二級管制藥品"},{"start":3031.89,"end":3033.37,"text":"是 藥品"},{"start":3033.41,"end":3033.89,"text":"好啊"},{"start":3033.93,"end":3035.7299999999996,"text":"那但是我現在問的是說"},{"start":3035.77,"end":3038.5299999999997,"text":"有人 有執政黨委員認為是說"},{"start":3038.5699999999997,"end":3041.33,"text":"應該要仿效在社區中心"},{"start":3041.37,"end":3042.77,"text":"不管是哪一個社區"},{"start":3042.81,"end":3044.37,"text":"我不知道他想要指的哪一個社區"},{"start":3044.41,"end":3045.81,"text":"所以說大家也要問他"},{"start":3045.81,"end":3046.89,"text":"但更重要的是"},{"start":3046.93,"end":3049.97,"text":"要提供毒品跟乾淨的針頭"},{"start":3050.0099999999998,"end":3050.73,"text":"你可以認同嗎"},{"start":3050.77,"end":3052.13,"text":"還是哪一個國家現在已經有在做"},{"start":3052.17,"end":3054.77,"text":"台北市也有十九處的自動服務機"},{"start":3054.81,"end":3055.29,"text":"在提供"},{"start":3055.33,"end":3056.41,"text":"你認不認同嘛"},{"start":3056.45,"end":3057.33,"text":"你先講你認不認同"},{"start":3057.37,"end":3058.81,"text":"說提供毒品跟針頭給人家"},{"start":3058.85,"end":3060.61,"text":"這是一個減害的措施"},{"start":3060.65,"end":3063.13,"text":"全世界是有國際驗證過的"},{"start":3063.17,"end":3064.77,"text":"那台灣很多的城市"},{"start":3064.81,"end":3066.29,"text":"所以院長你認同這樣的講法"},{"start":3066.33,"end":3067.17,"text":"也都這樣在做"},{"start":3067.21,"end":3068.5299999999997,"text":"我們已經這樣在做了"},{"start":3068.57,"end":3069.69,"text":"你認同這樣的講法"},{"start":3069.73,"end":3071.5299999999997,"text":"不是 要在社區中心"},{"start":3071.57,"end":3074.0499999999997,"text":"提供毒品跟針頭給一般民眾"},{"start":3074.61,"end":3076.01,"text":"這算是反毒嗎"},{"start":3076.05,"end":3077.8100000000004,"text":"請委員要把它講精準一點"},{"start":3077.8500000000004,"end":3080.65,"text":"因為我現在都用的是執政黨委員"},{"start":3080.69,"end":3081.8900000000003,"text":"他的文章裡面的話"},{"start":3081.9300000000003,"end":3083.17,"text":"我沒有加油添醋"},{"start":3083.21,"end":3084.4100000000003,"text":"但我現在想問的是"},{"start":3084.4500000000003,"end":3085.8500000000004,"text":"這樣的主張跟這樣的立場"},{"start":3085.8900000000003,"end":3087.65,"text":"是我們現在執政黨的立場嗎"},{"start":3087.69,"end":3089.3300000000004,"text":"我們現在已經在做的事實"},{"start":3089.3700000000003,"end":3091.05,"text":"我事實的狀況"},{"start":3091.09,"end":3093.57,"text":"我們就依照這個事實來解釋"},{"start":3093.61,"end":3096.57,"text":"院長你認為毒癮"},{"start":3096.61,"end":3099.8900000000003,"text":"跟什麼買模型玩具的癮一樣嗎"},{"start":3099.9300000000003,"end":3101.53,"text":"跟吃美食的癮一樣嗎"},{"start":3101.57,"end":3103.3300000000004,"text":"兩屆癮跟減害"},{"start":3103.3700000000003,"end":3105.17,"text":"不是兩件完全相同的事情"},{"start":3105.21,"end":3107.3300000000004,"text":"所以你覺得毒癮跟買模型玩具"},{"start":3107.3700000000003,"end":3109.09,"text":"跟吃美食的癮是一樣的"},{"start":3109.13,"end":3110.01,"text":"那當然不一樣"},{"start":3110.05,"end":3110.8500000000004,"text":"當然不一樣"},{"start":3110.8900000000003,"end":3112.4900000000002,"text":"所以會講出這樣的話的人"},{"start":3112.53,"end":3113.4900000000002,"text":"其實也蠻荒謬的"},{"start":3113.53,"end":3115.9700000000003,"text":"但是你不會到社區的藥局去吃美食"},{"start":3116.01,"end":3117.4500000000003,"text":"對 其實也很荒謬"},{"start":3117.4900000000002,"end":3117.8100000000004,"text":"對不對"},{"start":3117.8500000000004,"end":3118.17,"text":"不會"},{"start":3118.21,"end":3119.09,"text":"來 再來"},{"start":3119.13,"end":3121.25,"text":"所以我們現在想要問的是"},{"start":3121.2900000000004,"end":3122.8500000000004,"text":"到底有沒有可能"},{"start":3123.45,"end":3124.5299999999997,"text":"不管是衛福部"},{"start":3124.5699999999997,"end":3125.29,"text":"不管是法務部"},{"start":3125.33,"end":3126.0899999999997,"text":"不管是教育部"},{"start":3126.1299999999997,"end":3128.81,"text":"未來要在社區中心建立"},{"start":3128.85,"end":3130.69,"text":"可以提供毒品吸毒者"},{"start":3130.73,"end":3132.1299999999997,"text":"毒品跟乾淨的針頭"},{"start":3132.17,"end":3133.5299999999997,"text":"我們有可能會往這樣的方向"},{"start":3133.5699999999997,"end":3134.33,"text":"來去做施政嗎"},{"start":3135.68,"end":3137.96,"text":"我已經在跟委員報告過了"},{"start":3138,"end":3140.08,"text":"我們會不會這樣子做"},{"start":3140.12,"end":3142.64,"text":"34處的社區藥局"},{"start":3142.68,"end":3145.16,"text":"就在做這種減害的政策"},{"start":3145.2,"end":3147.08,"text":"完全不敢正面回答"},{"start":3147.12,"end":3148.7999999999997,"text":"正面對於台北市的例子"},{"start":3148.8399999999997,"end":3150.64,"text":"現在崔少鵬大人愛講的話說"},{"start":3150.68,"end":3151.44,"text":"問A打B"},{"start":3151.48,"end":3153.08,"text":"也許委員可以跟我說"},{"start":3153.12,"end":3155,"text":"詢北市的例子"},{"start":3155.04,"end":3157.2799999999997,"text":"你完全沒有在針對本席的問題回答問題"},{"start":3157.3199999999997,"end":3159,"text":"本席直接問"},{"start":3159.04,"end":3162.7599999999998,"text":"因為現在執政黨的委員提出來"},{"start":3162.7999999999997,"end":3165,"text":"還有現在是本席在問您問題"},{"start":3165.04,"end":3166.64,"text":"您負責回答"},{"start":3166.68,"end":3168.76,"text":"來院長我再請教一下"},{"start":3168.8,"end":3171.6,"text":"所以毒品跟藥品可以直接畫上等號嗎"},{"start":3172.38,"end":3173.3,"text":"你剛剛講美沙東"},{"start":3174.17,"end":3176.13,"text":"美沙東到底是毒品還是藥品"},{"start":3176.17,"end":3178.4500000000003,"text":"毒品跟藥品能不能畫上等號"},{"start":3178.4900000000002,"end":3181.73,"text":"毒品跟藥品能不能畫上等號"},{"start":3181.77,"end":3183.33,"text":"現在我再請教卓榮泰院長"},{"start":3184.21,"end":3186.13,"text":"毒品跟藥品當然不一樣"},{"start":3186.17,"end":3187.09,"text":"當然不一樣"},{"start":3187.13,"end":3189.41,"text":"所以如果說有人要講說"},{"start":3189.4500000000003,"end":3191.41,"text":"把毒品跟藥品畫上等號的話"},{"start":3191.4500000000003,"end":3193.05,"text":"那其實是一個很荒謬的事情"},{"start":3193.09,"end":3195.77,"text":"再來正式毒品只是藥"},{"start":3195.81,"end":3200.01,"text":"在社區社市不會有人要把毒品散發給"},{"start":3200.05,"end":3202.01,"text":"所以毒品只是藥嗎"},{"start":3202.05,"end":3203.77,"text":"你要硬把它解釋成這個樣子"},{"start":3203.81,"end":3205.37,"text":"我們也是在沒有辦法"},{"start":3205.41,"end":3206.65,"text":"我們就要解釋"},{"start":3206.69,"end":3209.81,"text":"今天是本席議席社會大眾想要了解"},{"start":3209.85,"end":3211.85,"text":"為什麼會有執政黨的委員"},{"start":3211.89,"end":3213.25,"text":"過去有這樣的主張"},{"start":3213.29,"end":3214.09,"text":"而這樣的主張"},{"start":3214.13,"end":3215.65,"text":"到底跟我們現在台灣主流民意"},{"start":3215.69,"end":3216.85,"text":"有沒有背道而馳"},{"start":3216.89,"end":3218.29,"text":"如果有背道而馳的話"},{"start":3218.33,"end":3219.85,"text":"他其實可以改口"},{"start":3219.89,"end":3222.45,"text":"但是今天我們拿執政黨委員"},{"start":3222.49,"end":3224.49,"text":"過去的文章來請教你的時候"},{"start":3224.53,"end":3225.85,"text":"你也不敢回答"},{"start":3225.89,"end":3228.37,"text":"然後正式毒品只是藥"},{"start":3228.41,"end":3231.61,"text":"我們以台北市的現狀來回答委員"},{"start":3231.65,"end":3233.49,"text":"這個是最接近現在事實的"},{"start":3233.53,"end":3234.85,"text":"要跟委員說明"},{"start":3234.89,"end":3235.37,"text":"我想非常厲害"},{"start":3235.41,"end":3238.05,"text":"馬飛跟海洛因都是一級毒品"},{"start":3238.09,"end":3239.65,"text":"美沙東是二級毒品"},{"start":3239.69,"end":3240.77,"text":"我想非常厲害"},{"start":3241.21,"end":3241.77,"text":"政府部長"},{"start":3241.81,"end":3245.41,"text":"如果能夠再有執政"},{"start":3245.45,"end":3247.17,"text":"然後要有規劃"},{"start":3247.21,"end":3249.21,"text":"有管理下他可以當作藥品來使用"},{"start":3249.25,"end":3251.45,"text":"本席現在想要講的另外一個議題"},{"start":3251.49,"end":3252.33,"text":"你剛剛第一個問題"},{"start":3252.37,"end":3253.77,"text":"沒有辦法很明確回答"},{"start":3253.81,"end":3254.17,"text":"那沒關係"},{"start":3254.21,"end":3255.0099999999998,"text":"那再來"},{"start":3255.05,"end":3255.89,"text":"我們已經解釋了"},{"start":3255.93,"end":3256.85,"text":"怎麼會沒有明確回答"},{"start":3256.89,"end":3258.61,"text":"本席過去到現在也都提了"},{"start":3258.65,"end":3259.97,"text":"像我們這一次"},{"start":3260.0099999999998,"end":3261.13,"text":"立法院在野黨委員"},{"start":3261.17,"end":3263.0099999999998,"text":"52位都已經連署通過"},{"start":3263.05,"end":3264.81,"text":"中選會應該要有這個"},{"start":3264.85,"end":3266.93,"text":"所謂的邊行打擊詐騙公投"},{"start":3266.97,"end":3269.45,"text":"很遺憾被中選會沒收"},{"start":3269.49,"end":3271.6499999999996,"text":"但是當時我們要講的是什麼"},{"start":3271.6899999999996,"end":3272.25,"text":"我們要講的是"},{"start":3272.29,"end":3274.1699999999996,"text":"其實我們希望能夠提供"},{"start":3274.21,"end":3275.6099999999997,"text":"政府一個強而有力"},{"start":3275.6499999999996,"end":3278.25,"text":"但是富有法律保障的武器"},{"start":3278.29,"end":3280.1299999999997,"text":"能夠來對付犯罪"},{"start":3280.1699999999996,"end":3281.25,"text":"降低詐騙"},{"start":3281.29,"end":3282.1699999999996,"text":"降低性侵"},{"start":3282.21,"end":3283.37,"text":"降低虐童"},{"start":3283.41,"end":3284.81,"text":"這一些只要能夠做"},{"start":3284.85,"end":3285.6099999999997,"text":"我們都應該做"},{"start":3285.6499999999996,"end":3287.1699999999996,"text":"這不分朝野黨派"},{"start":3287.21,"end":3289.37,"text":"那因為中選會把它沒收了"},{"start":3289.41,"end":3290.21,"text":"很遺憾"},{"start":3290.25,"end":3292.33,"text":"但是本席也負責任的"},{"start":3292.37,"end":3294.45,"text":"把本席的修法版本給提出來"},{"start":3294.49,"end":3296.29,"text":"並且本席的修法版本裡面"},{"start":3296.33,"end":3298.37,"text":"也獲得委員的連署"},{"start":3298.37,"end":3300.81,"text":"目前即將要進入到一讀會"},{"start":3300.85,"end":3301.49,"text":"好"},{"start":3301.5299999999997,"end":3304.77,"text":"本席再一次強調跟說明清楚"},{"start":3305.48,"end":3306.32,"text":"第一"},{"start":3306.36,"end":3307.8,"text":"性侵虐童詐騙"},{"start":3307.84,"end":3310.96,"text":"以及毒品駕車後致死"},{"start":3311,"end":3312.48,"text":"這樣子的一個重大犯罪"},{"start":3312.52,"end":3314.08,"text":"其實是慘無人道的"},{"start":3314.12,"end":3315.64,"text":"而且是層出不窮的"},{"start":3315.68,"end":3317.32,"text":"我們不希望這樣的事情發生"},{"start":3317.36,"end":3318.48,"text":"我相信院長也好"},{"start":3318.52,"end":3319.88,"text":"或是說在野黨委員一樣"},{"start":3319.92,"end":3322.4,"text":"大家都一致就是要對付"},{"start":3323.6,"end":3326.24,"text":"現在有看到我們有這個行政院"},{"start":3326.2799999999997,"end":3327.8,"text":"馬上講是說有可能"},{"start":3327.84,"end":3329.48,"text":"這樣的修法會違反兩公約"},{"start":3329.52,"end":3330.72,"text":"而給了軟墊子"},{"start":3330.7599999999998,"end":3333.32,"text":"我想先請教一下比較直接概念"},{"start":3333.36,"end":3336.08,"text":"所以本席提出來這樣的一個修法"},{"start":3336.12,"end":3338.36,"text":"這個也參考過去在野時候"},{"start":3338.4,"end":3340,"text":"民進黨委員的主張"},{"start":3340.04,"end":3343.6,"text":"甚至潘孟安 徐國勇 蔡其昌"},{"start":3343.64,"end":3347.12,"text":"現在身兼民進黨要職的秘書長"},{"start":3347.16,"end":3349.44,"text":"也都有連署這樣的一個版本"},{"start":3349.48,"end":3351.56,"text":"那本席提出來修法之後"},{"start":3351.6,"end":3352.68,"text":"法務部或行政院"},{"start":3352.68,"end":3353.7999999999997,"text":"會不會有相對應的版本"},{"start":3354.87,"end":3357.31,"text":"首先對於這個重大惡行的犯罪"},{"start":3357.35,"end":3359.0299999999997,"text":"加重他的刑責"},{"start":3359.0699999999997,"end":3360.5899999999997,"text":"這是大家的共識"},{"start":3360.63,"end":3364.0699999999997,"text":"行政院的方向也是朝這個方向在前進"},{"start":3364.1099999999997,"end":3365.95,"text":"但是本席連出來這個重刑"},{"start":3365.99,"end":3367.43,"text":"兩公約是要遵守的"},{"start":3367.47,"end":3368.99,"text":"我們再回顧世界上"},{"start":3369.0299999999997,"end":3371.95,"text":"目前僅有少數國家使用邊形"},{"start":3371.99,"end":3374.5099999999998,"text":"到底邊形它能夠產生多大的效益"},{"start":3374.5499999999997,"end":3377.5099999999998,"text":"這有待進一步的去商榷跟討論"},{"start":3377.5499999999997,"end":3378.5499999999997,"text":"那我們認為"},{"start":3378.5899999999997,"end":3380.5499999999997,"text":"本席去年一年就已經提出來"},{"start":3380.5899999999997,"end":3383.91,"text":"用近一步的人權觀念"},{"start":3383.95,"end":3386.75,"text":"那本席也提供相關的資料"},{"start":3386.79,"end":3388.0299999999997,"text":"並且本席也建議說"},{"start":3388.0699999999997,"end":3389.31,"text":"法務部也好外交部也好"},{"start":3389.35,"end":3391.75,"text":"可以去新加坡去了解"},{"start":3391.79,"end":3392.99,"text":"請教過去這一年"},{"start":3393.0299999999997,"end":3394.6299999999997,"text":"有那些瞭解"},{"start":3394.67,"end":3397.39,"text":"像新加坡是因為直接延續英國的做法"},{"start":3397.43,"end":3399.75,"text":"那英國已經戰後最有廢詞的邊形"},{"start":3399.79,"end":3402.1499999999996,"text":"那新加坡就是說重大的這些差異"},{"start":3402.19,"end":3403.43,"text":"是不是嚴厲是不是"},{"start":3403.47,"end":3404.27,"text":"我剛講的這些"},{"start":3404.31,"end":3406.35,"text":"是不是新加坡都繼續在邊形"},{"start":3406.39,"end":3409.71,"text":"他那個只有說限縮在50歲以下的男子"},{"start":3409.75,"end":3410.67,"text":"50歲"},{"start":3410.71,"end":3412.1499999999996,"text":"您的資料錯誤了"},{"start":3412.19,"end":3416.15,"text":"然後對父女對少年對年紀的"},{"start":3416.19,"end":3419.39,"text":"他在炸盤的話會利用這些人來做一些"},{"start":3419.4300000000003,"end":3420.9100000000003,"text":"等分寸所當然的"},{"start":3420.9500000000003,"end":3422.4700000000003,"text":"請讓院長回答"},{"start":3422.51,"end":3423.27,"text":"來院長"},{"start":3423.94,"end":3426.26,"text":"那我也看到說民進黨委員也講"},{"start":3426.3,"end":3428.38,"text":"就是說其實也可以把貪污"},{"start":3428.42,"end":3431.42,"text":"立委犯罪收入列入邊形"},{"start":3431.46,"end":3433.14,"text":"所以請教執政黨"},{"start":3433.62,"end":3436.02,"text":"護士行政院會不會把中央的版本"},{"start":3436.06,"end":3438.58,"text":"把這些委員的提案一起納進來"},{"start":3438.62,"end":3440.06,"text":"然後變成是一個版本"},{"start":3440.1,"end":3441.2999999999997,"text":"然後拿出來來做討論"},{"start":3441.3399999999997,"end":3443.46,"text":"因為有委員提出要用邊形"},{"start":3443.5,"end":3445.58,"text":"所以另外有委員提出一些"},{"start":3445.62,"end":3447.3399999999997,"text":"比較反向的思考"},{"start":3447.38,"end":3450.1,"text":"但是行政院會認為重大政策"},{"start":3450.14,"end":3454.46,"text":"不是用反向思考來做討論跟對比的"},{"start":3454.5,"end":3455.9,"text":"我們應該衡量的是"},{"start":3455.94,"end":3460.14,"text":"邊形符不符合現在世界的人權的思想"},{"start":3460.18,"end":3463.1,"text":"邊形在大多數的國家是不是被接受"},{"start":3463.1,"end":3464.38,"text":"人權的思想"},{"start":3464.42,"end":3465.66,"text":"一致意料的因素"},{"start":3465.7,"end":3469.9,"text":"全台民眾對於政府要求治安的期待"},{"start":3469.94,"end":3470.7799999999997,"text":"我們瞭解"},{"start":3470.8199999999997,"end":3472.8199999999997,"text":"以過去對於犯罪的縱容"},{"start":3472.86,"end":3476.14,"text":"這是人民想要看到政府有更強而有力"},{"start":3476.18,"end":3476.98,"text":"積極的作為"},{"start":3477.02,"end":3479.98,"text":"這是為什麼過去有八千的民意"},{"start":3480.02,"end":3482.94,"text":"認為是邊形撒基詐騙虐童性侵"},{"start":3482.98,"end":3484.54,"text":"以及屠殺警示"},{"start":3484.58,"end":3488.1,"text":"真的是高度民意的產生"},{"start":3488.14,"end":3491.02,"text":"如果行政院長還聽不到這樣的民意的話"},{"start":3491.06,"end":3492.74,"text":"我感到非常遺憾"},{"start":3492.74,"end":3495.62,"text":"但是難不成外用實際行動"},{"start":3495.66,"end":3499.8599999999997,"text":"告訴行政院什麼才是真正的民意"},{"start":3499.8999999999996,"end":3502.5,"text":"再來我們提高刑罰的法"},{"start":3502.54,"end":3504.3399999999997,"text":"修正已經送到大院來了"},{"start":3504.3799999999997,"end":3506.3799999999997,"text":"大院卻不審這個案"},{"start":3506.4199999999996,"end":3508.4199999999996,"text":"提高刑罰的個人法律修正案"},{"start":3508.4599999999996,"end":3510.2599999999998,"text":"而且大院已經都通過了"},{"start":3510.2999999999997,"end":3513.9399999999996,"text":"部長請您請大家請您先不要干擾本席"},{"start":3513.9799999999996,"end":3516.4199999999996,"text":"這個三級的那個三級"},{"start":3516.4599999999996,"end":3518.66,"text":"部長一直在干擾本席的質詢"},{"start":3518.7,"end":3520.4599999999996,"text":"讓本席經濟把本過了"},{"start":3520.5,"end":3523.26,"text":"是想要救駕還是想要篡位"},{"start":3523.3,"end":3525.38,"text":"不然怎麼會指揮官院長才回答"},{"start":3525.42,"end":3528.3,"text":"現在回復是我們對行政院長加重修法的努力"},{"start":3528.34,"end":3529.94,"text":"時間可以請暫停嗎"},{"start":3529.98,"end":3531.94,"text":"而且這是回應民意的要求"},{"start":3532.95,"end":3536.0299999999997,"text":"根據立法院職權刑事法第22條精神"},{"start":3536.0699999999997,"end":3539.5899999999997,"text":"對委員之答覆 係由行政院院長答覆"},{"start":3539.6299999999997,"end":3544.0699999999997,"text":"或由質詢委員指定之有關部會首長答覆"},{"start":3544.1099999999997,"end":3545.39,"text":"委員如果沒有指定"},{"start":3545.43,"end":3547.0299999999997,"text":"就請部會首長不要搶答"},{"start":3550.94,"end":3551.86,"text":"非常好 可以繼續嗎"},{"start":3552.49,"end":3554.6899999999996,"text":"部長 本席要求你回答的時候"},{"start":3554.73,"end":3555.5699999999997,"text":"請你回答"},{"start":3555.6099999999997,"end":3558.45,"text":"沒有要求你回答的時候請不要篡位"},{"start":3558.49,"end":3560.0899999999997,"text":"來 院長 那我請教"},{"start":3560.1299999999997,"end":3561.5299999999997,"text":"現在我們也提出來"},{"start":3561.5699999999997,"end":3564.1299999999997,"text":"因為獨駕非常的嚴峻"},{"start":3564.1699999999996,"end":3567.0499999999997,"text":"而獨駕致死更是慘絕人寰"},{"start":3567.0899999999997,"end":3569.45,"text":"我們常常講說這就是不定期炸彈"},{"start":3569.49,"end":3570.5299999999997,"text":"那既然這樣的話"},{"start":3570.5699999999997,"end":3572.45,"text":"本席也已經有修法主張"},{"start":3572.49,"end":3573.45,"text":"就是如果說"},{"start":3573.49,"end":3576.6099999999997,"text":"獨駕致死最高應該判處死刑無期徒刑"},{"start":3576.6499999999996,"end":3578.29,"text":"或12年以上有期徒刑"},{"start":3578.33,"end":3582.0899999999997,"text":"這就是您剛剛一直強調的說要把刑責加重"},{"start":3582.09,"end":3584.4500000000003,"text":"你說刑責加重行政院是支持的"},{"start":3584.4900000000002,"end":3586.73,"text":"所以本席這樣的一個修法版本"},{"start":3586.77,"end":3589.4900000000002,"text":"目前民進黨團不同意"},{"start":3589.53,"end":3591.4500000000003,"text":"那我不知道說行政部門現在這邊"},{"start":3591.4900000000002,"end":3592.73,"text":"有沒有可能有同意的機會"},{"start":3592.77,"end":3594.4100000000003,"text":"因為如果說行政部門同意的話"},{"start":3594.4500000000003,"end":3596.4100000000003,"text":"也許我們就可以直接"},{"start":3596.4500000000003,"end":3598.17,"text":"在這個禮拜五院會的時候三讀通過"},{"start":3600.3,"end":3601.6600000000003,"text":"大院裡面的修法"},{"start":3601.7000000000003,"end":3603.1000000000004,"text":"朝野各黨團的意見"},{"start":3603.1400000000003,"end":3604.86,"text":"我想要彼此互相的遵守"},{"start":3604.9,"end":3606.9,"text":"同時也要符合憲法的精神"},{"start":3606.94,"end":3607.42,"text":"你自己的態度"},{"start":3607.46,"end":3609.5800000000004,"text":"如果是唯一死刑"},{"start":3609.6200000000003,"end":3610.2200000000003,"text":"將來是不是"},{"start":3610.26,"end":3611.02,"text":"沒有唯一死刑"},{"start":3611.0600000000004,"end":3612.5800000000004,"text":"本席剛剛講得非常清楚"},{"start":3612.6200000000003,"end":3615.6600000000003,"text":"獨駕致死我們給法官做裁量權"},{"start":3615.7000000000003,"end":3618.5,"text":"如果獨駕致死最高判處死刑"},{"start":3618.54,"end":3620.98,"text":"無期徒刑或12年以上有期徒刑"},{"start":3621.02,"end":3622.3,"text":"這是法官的裁量權"},{"start":3622.34,"end":3623.26,"text":"我不會去干涉"},{"start":3623.3,"end":3625.0600000000004,"text":"但是本席修法完畢之後"},{"start":3625.1000000000004,"end":3627.1800000000003,"text":"請教行政院長認不認同"},{"start":3627.22,"end":3630.3399999999997,"text":"我們已經對特殊重大的暴力犯罪"},{"start":3630.3799999999997,"end":3633.2999999999997,"text":"擬具了刑法第77條的修正草案"},{"start":3633.3399999999997,"end":3635.8199999999997,"text":"那麼明定不能安全駕駛的罹犯"},{"start":3635.8599999999997,"end":3638.54,"text":"五年內不能在安全駕駛的"},{"start":3638.58,"end":3639.7799999999997,"text":"這幾個條款"},{"start":3639.8199999999997,"end":3640.8999999999996,"text":"故意殺人"},{"start":3640.94,"end":3644.22,"text":"殺人未遂或是惡劣致死等重傷的"},{"start":3644.2599999999998,"end":3646.8999999999996,"text":"都會處無期徒刑或超過"},{"start":3646.94,"end":3648.7,"text":"所以你不認同處死刑"},{"start":3648.74,"end":3650.7799999999997,"text":"那目前我們的態度是如此"},{"start":3650.8199999999997,"end":3653.3399999999997,"text":"所以行政院即便到現在看到"},{"start":3653.3799999999997,"end":3654.7799999999997,"text":"那麼多犯罪猖獗"},{"start":3654.8199999999997,"end":3656.8599999999997,"text":"也不用硬性辯論我們"},{"start":3656.9,"end":3659.78,"text":"我們沒有廢死"},{"start":3659.82,"end":3661.78,"text":"你也不願意求處死刑"},{"start":3661.82,"end":3662.7000000000003,"text":"把死刑列入"},{"start":3662.7400000000002,"end":3663.7400000000002,"text":"我們沒有廢死"},{"start":3663.78,"end":3664.46,"text":"沒有廢死"},{"start":3664.5,"end":3665.1800000000003,"text":"沒有廢死"},{"start":3665.2200000000003,"end":3666.78,"text":"但即便現在沒有廢死"},{"start":3666.82,"end":3668.1400000000003,"text":"你如果實際上講沒有廢死"},{"start":3668.1800000000003,"end":3671.3,"text":"但是這樣子的一個慘無人道的一個犯行"},{"start":3671.34,"end":3674.1800000000003,"text":"你們行政院還是不同意處死刑"},{"start":3674.2200000000003,"end":3675.3,"text":"目前的修法的方向"},{"start":3675.34,"end":3677.1800000000003,"text":"為什麼每一次都讓我們看到"},{"start":3677.2200000000003,"end":3679.3,"text":"對於犯罪者那麼的包容"},{"start":3679.34,"end":3681.1,"text":"目前在修正"},{"start":3681.1400000000003,"end":3683.58,"text":"為什麼每一次都要問AW"},{"start":3683.6200000000003,"end":3684.82,"text":"每一次都要問AW"},{"start":3684.86,"end":3686.7000000000003,"text":"為犯罪者來開脫"},{"start":3686.7400000000002,"end":3688.46,"text":"凌虐犯罪者到底"},{"start":3688.5,"end":3691.6600000000003,"text":"你們到底跟被害者有什麼仇"},{"start":3691.7000000000003,"end":3694.98,"text":"凌虐未滿七歲兒童致死的是處於死刑"},{"start":3695.02,"end":3697.2200000000003,"text":"那也是在院長修法通過的"},{"start":3697.26,"end":3698.86,"text":"你們當事提反對"},{"start":3698.9,"end":3702.3,"text":"對 但是也是衡量到整個法律的"},{"start":3702.34,"end":3703.34,"text":"他整個"},{"start":3703.38,"end":3705.6200000000003,"text":"國人都了解您的態度了"},{"start":3705.6600000000003,"end":3707.38,"text":"再來 院長"},{"start":3707.42,"end":3709.6600000000003,"text":"還剩兩個月不到就要九合一選舉"},{"start":3711.47,"end":3713.5499999999997,"text":"選舉是民主的過程"},{"start":3713.5899999999997,"end":3714.6699999999996,"text":"本席非常尊重"},{"start":3714.71,"end":3716.47,"text":"因為本席有這個權利站在這邊"},{"start":3716.5099999999998,"end":3718.87,"text":"就是透過公平公正的選舉得來"},{"start":3718.91,"end":3722.6299999999997,"text":"所以我很珍惜每一票給我的選票的承諾"},{"start":3722.6699999999996,"end":3724.79,"text":"那九合一選舉的時候"},{"start":3724.83,"end":3726.23,"text":"其實最重要的是"},{"start":3726.27,"end":3728.1099999999997,"text":"我們不要有任何外界的干擾"},{"start":3728.1499999999996,"end":3731.31,"text":"所以說我們也絕對向會選說不"},{"start":3731.35,"end":3734.39,"text":"可是現在有個情況比較特別的狀況是"},{"start":3734.43,"end":3736.0299999999997,"text":"一般民間在講是說"},{"start":3736.0699999999997,"end":3737.6299999999997,"text":"過去有些事情"},{"start":3737.6699999999996,"end":3739.0299999999997,"text":"就包括說法務部之前"},{"start":3739.07,"end":3741.7900000000004,"text":"訂出所謂30塊的文宣小物的標準"},{"start":3741.8300000000004,"end":3743.8300000000004,"text":"現在到底還有沒有這個標準"},{"start":3743.8700000000003,"end":3746.03,"text":"以及什麼能做什麼不能做"},{"start":3746.07,"end":3748.4700000000003,"text":"我想這個是不分黨派朝野"},{"start":3748.51,"end":3750.3100000000004,"text":"大家可以凝聚一個共識"},{"start":3750.3500000000004,"end":3752.8700000000003,"text":"畫出一個很精確的紅線"},{"start":3752.9100000000003,"end":3755.23,"text":"要求所有候選人都不要違法"},{"start":3755.27,"end":3756.4300000000003,"text":"你認同嗎"},{"start":3756.4700000000003,"end":3757.27,"text":"標準只有一個"},{"start":3757.3100000000004,"end":3758.07,"text":"請法務來說明"},{"start":3758.11,"end":3758.8700000000003,"text":"標準只有一個"},{"start":3758.9100000000003,"end":3759.8700000000003,"text":"所以我們來看一下"},{"start":3760.65,"end":3761.33,"text":"請跳"},{"start":3761.3700000000003,"end":3764.33,"text":"如果說在競選場合發放這樣子的一個"},{"start":3766.1,"end":3767.2999999999997,"text":"每個人拿到一份"},{"start":3767.3399999999997,"end":3768.74,"text":"算不算違法"},{"start":3768.7799999999997,"end":3769.74,"text":"算不算會選"},{"start":3769.7799999999997,"end":3770.8199999999997,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3770.86,"end":3773.2599999999998,"text":"這個最高檢察署有"},{"start":3773.2999999999997,"end":3774.62,"text":"你直接回答我"},{"start":3774.66,"end":3776.86,"text":"妨害選舉刑事案件的例舉"},{"start":3776.9,"end":3777.22,"text":"是"},{"start":3777.2599999999998,"end":3780.42,"text":"那這部份第三的不構成會選的話"},{"start":3780.46,"end":3782.7,"text":"這個有編號三"},{"start":3782.74,"end":3786.2999999999997,"text":"選舉造勢活動提供參加民眾試圖之茶水"},{"start":3786.3399999999997,"end":3787.94,"text":"簡便餐飲"},{"start":3787.98,"end":3790.02,"text":"不預約社會場景"},{"start":3790.06,"end":3791.22,"text":"那這這部分"},{"start":3791.2599999999998,"end":3792.74,"text":"所以這個算不算"},{"start":3792.7799999999997,"end":3794.7,"text":"這個要看有沒有社會場景"},{"start":3794.8199999999997,"end":3795.98,"text":"看這個社會場景"},{"start":3796.02,"end":3797.8999999999996,"text":"本席就在問你有沒有社會場景"},{"start":3797.9399999999996,"end":3799.22,"text":"個案認定我不做"},{"start":3799.2599999999998,"end":3800.3799999999997,"text":"沒有不講"},{"start":3800.4199999999996,"end":3801.66,"text":"這沒有辦法講個案認定"},{"start":3801.7,"end":3803.06,"text":"因為兩個部分"},{"start":3803.1,"end":3806.7,"text":"國人現在普遍有一個認知是30塊以下"},{"start":3806.74,"end":3808.1,"text":"那這個超過30塊"},{"start":3808.14,"end":3809.02,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3809.06,"end":3809.66,"text":"但委員報告一個部分"},{"start":3809.7,"end":3811.14,"text":"你要講說社會場景"},{"start":3811.18,"end":3812.5,"text":"我來做一個解釋"},{"start":3812.54,"end":3815.7799999999997,"text":"30塊就是一個發動偵查的門檻"},{"start":3815.8199999999997,"end":3816.66,"text":"並不是說"},{"start":3816.7,"end":3818.7799999999997,"text":"30塊達到3以上就一定會"},{"start":3818.8199999999997,"end":3820.3399999999997,"text":"所以這有沒有超過30塊"},{"start":3820.3799999999997,"end":3822.22,"text":"為打30塊就不是會選"},{"start":3822.2599999999998,"end":3823.7799999999997,"text":"所以這有沒有超過30塊"},{"start":3823.8199999999997,"end":3824.54,"text":"這部分"},{"start":3824.58,"end":3826.58,"text":"以現在的物價來講"},{"start":3826.62,"end":3828.98,"text":"如果說這個是屬於高檔餐廳的"},{"start":3829.02,"end":3830.9,"text":"那個這個就超過30塊"},{"start":3830.94,"end":3832.06,"text":"可能幾百塊"},{"start":3832.1,"end":3833.14,"text":"路邊攤就說"},{"start":3833.18,"end":3835.1,"text":"路邊攤我就不曉得這個是多少"},{"start":3835.14,"end":3835.66,"text":"下一張"},{"start":3837.3399999999997,"end":3838.54,"text":"這有超過30塊嗎"},{"start":3838.58,"end":3840.46,"text":"這個我沒辦法去做"},{"start":3840.5,"end":3841.8199999999997,"text":"這個沒有標記"},{"start":3841.8599999999997,"end":3842.46,"text":"因為你剛剛講"},{"start":3842.5,"end":3844.4199999999996,"text":"部長現在本席可以請你回答"},{"start":3844.46,"end":3846.54,"text":"但是你剛剛講的東西很模糊"},{"start":3846.58,"end":3849.58,"text":"這也是我們要透過質疑的時候來去查"},{"start":3849.62,"end":3854.18,"text":"你剛剛說30塊只是一個發動偵查的門檻"},{"start":3854.22,"end":3855.4199999999996,"text":"本席現在講請教是說"},{"start":3855.46,"end":3857.18,"text":"如果說一般檢察官來講的話"},{"start":3857.22,"end":3857.8999999999996,"text":"你們內部"},{"start":3857.9399999999996,"end":3861.3799999999997,"text":"因為你們一定有行前教育"},{"start":3861.4199999999996,"end":3862.8999999999996,"text":"看到現在這樣子的話"},{"start":3862.9399999999996,"end":3864.14,"text":"檢察官要不要講"},{"start":3864.18,"end":3865.98,"text":"陳立要不要會選"},{"start":3866.02,"end":3867.78,"text":"會選就是以"},{"start":3867.82,"end":3870.7,"text":"他是不是可以變更影響"},{"start":3870.7400000000002,"end":3874.14,"text":"這個選舉全能的一個投票的一個意願"},{"start":3874.18,"end":3875.02,"text":"現在就講是說"},{"start":3875.06,"end":3877.26,"text":"現在的狀況就是標準是模糊"},{"start":3877.3,"end":3878.34,"text":"糊動的"},{"start":3878.38,"end":3880.42,"text":"好像斑斕不斑律"},{"start":3880.46,"end":3882.58,"text":"好像針對特定政黨的候選人"},{"start":3882.62,"end":3884.18,"text":"有沒有一個對象關係"},{"start":3884.22,"end":3885.9,"text":"這時候才會給你機會說明"},{"start":3885.94,"end":3887.9,"text":"但是你現在這個也說得不清楚"},{"start":3887.94,"end":3890.54,"text":"這個防害選舉行事案接著來一舉"},{"start":3890.58,"end":3891.58,"text":"裡面有一些例舉"},{"start":3891.62,"end":3893.62,"text":"哪些是可以會成立會選"},{"start":3893.66,"end":3894.82,"text":"哪些是不成立會選"},{"start":3894.82,"end":3896.1000000000004,"text":"我們會出來這些什麼東西"},{"start":3897.24,"end":3898.64,"text":"烤滷豬"},{"start":3898.68,"end":3902.3199999999997,"text":"如果說有候選人在他的宣講"},{"start":3902.3599999999997,"end":3904.04,"text":"講說要支持某某某"},{"start":3904.08,"end":3906,"text":"然後旁邊提供烤滷豬"},{"start":3906.04,"end":3908.72,"text":"烤滷豬這個市價一支兩萬五起跳"},{"start":3909.62,"end":3910.9,"text":"那如果說來參加"},{"start":3910.94,"end":3911.94,"text":"譬如說100個人"},{"start":3911.98,"end":3914.46,"text":"那每個人就拿到250塊"},{"start":3914.5,"end":3916.5,"text":"如果說來200個人"},{"start":3916.54,"end":3917.86,"text":"那每個人125塊"},{"start":3917.9,"end":3921.9,"text":"那如果說在候選人的助獎宣講場合"},{"start":3921.94,"end":3922.86,"text":"旁邊有烤滷豬"},{"start":3922.9,"end":3924.46,"text":"然後提供給來參加民眾"},{"start":3924.5,"end":3925.02,"text":"這樣算不算"},{"start":3926.1,"end":3927.46,"text":"這可以比較好認定了吧"},{"start":3928.35,"end":3929.63,"text":"可不可以提供烤滷豬"},{"start":3929.67,"end":3931.11,"text":"這個還是要到"},{"start":3931.15,"end":3933.47,"text":"這是滷豬不行烤羊烤雞"},{"start":3933.51,"end":3934.91,"text":"滷豬不行烤雞可以"},{"start":3934.95,"end":3935.87,"text":"一個判決"},{"start":3935.91,"end":3940.07,"text":"一零六年的台上自二一八九號的一個判決"},{"start":3940.11,"end":3940.83,"text":"我們的個案"},{"start":3940.87,"end":3943.27,"text":"我們到現在我們沒有發生這個"},{"start":3943.31,"end":3947.07,"text":"這個都是實際的照片"},{"start":3947.11,"end":3948.31,"text":"我完全可以負責"},{"start":3948.35,"end":3949.59,"text":"完全可以去求證"},{"start":3949.63,"end":3951.67,"text":"但本席現在要問的事情"},{"start":3951.71,"end":3953.67,"text":"是如果說連我們在國會殿堂"},{"start":3953.71,"end":3954.67,"text":"我問什麼東西"},{"start":3954.71,"end":3955.87,"text":"你都沒有辦法回答的話"},{"start":3955.91,"end":3957.63,"text":"那難怪一般民眾會覺得說"},{"start":3957.67,"end":3959.71,"text":"這一次的檢調是完全浮動的"},{"start":3959.75,"end":3961.67,"text":"有些時候送豆花不行"},{"start":3961.71,"end":3962.9900000000002,"text":"那烤滷豬可以"},{"start":3964.18,"end":3966.06,"text":"意見不行什麼可以"},{"start":3966.1,"end":3966.7,"text":"那甚至"},{"start":3967.95,"end":3969.15,"text":"這到底標準是什麼"},{"start":3969.19,"end":3971.15,"text":"這個講到接到這個線報檢舉"},{"start":3971.19,"end":3973.35,"text":"我現在就會立案來做一個調查"},{"start":3973.39,"end":3975.0299999999997,"text":"但是成不成立的話"},{"start":3975.0699999999997,"end":3976.19,"text":"還要經過調查"},{"start":3976.23,"end":3979.0299999999997,"text":"還是要經過是不是一個調查的結果"},{"start":3979.0699999999997,"end":3982.59,"text":"是不是有影響變更投票的一個意願"},{"start":3984.54,"end":3987.1,"text":"所以我跟你們報告"},{"start":3987.14,"end":3988.66,"text":"這個是有沒有對下關係"},{"start":3988.7,"end":3991.38,"text":"就是成立這一種的來做一個判斷"},{"start":3991.42,"end":3992.74,"text":"當然它有個歷史"},{"start":3992.7799999999997,"end":3993.62,"text":"法這個字"},{"start":3993.66,"end":3995.62,"text":"每個案件的情形不一樣"},{"start":3995.66,"end":3998.9,"text":"就是不分顏色黨派"},{"start":3998.94,"end":4000.94,"text":"依法該辦就辦"},{"start":4000.98,"end":4002.9,"text":"絕對不是個案認定"},{"start":4002.94,"end":4003.7799999999997,"text":"如果說什麼東西"},{"start":4003.82,"end":4005.18,"text":"要寫到個案認定的話"},{"start":4005.22,"end":4006.38,"text":"就是一個案"},{"start":4006.42,"end":4007.62,"text":"本席才會"},{"start":4007.66,"end":4009.54,"text":"為什麼全國人民都會說"},{"start":4009.58,"end":4011.46,"text":"現在的標準是沒有標準"},{"start":4011.5,"end":4012.22,"text":"這是一定的"},{"start":4012.2599999999998,"end":4013.74,"text":"怎麼沒有標準的"},{"start":4013.7799999999997,"end":4014.1,"text":"再來"},{"start":4014.14,"end":4014.7799999999997,"text":"這每個案件"},{"start":4014.8199999999997,"end":4018.02,"text":"一定要收集一個情形來做一個認定"},{"start":4019.12,"end":4020.72,"text":"本席今天不跟你討論什麼"},{"start":4020.7599999999998,"end":4022.88,"text":"你手機的桌布到底是什麼桌布"},{"start":4022.92,"end":4024.96,"text":"你高興換什麼桌布"},{"start":4025,"end":4026.56,"text":"這個是我尊重"},{"start":4026.6,"end":4027,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4027.04,"end":4030.52,"text":"但是行政官員能不能用"},{"start":4030.56,"end":4031.7599999999998,"text":"人民的納稅前"},{"start":4031.7999999999997,"end":4032.8399999999997,"text":"機關辦的活動"},{"start":4032.88,"end":4034.72,"text":"幫特定候選人喊動賺"},{"start":4034.7599999999998,"end":4037.68,"text":"這一點就是所有政務人員"},{"start":4037.72,"end":4039.72,"text":"以及所有中華民國公務員"},{"start":4039.7599999999998,"end":4040.88,"text":"不能踩著紅線"},{"start":4040.92,"end":4042.68,"text":"這個界限一定要非常清楚"},{"start":4042.72,"end":4042.96,"text":"是"},{"start":4044.5,"end":4045.98,"text":"黃世傑"},{"start":4046.02,"end":4047.62,"text":"之前的法務部次長"},{"start":4048.3,"end":4051.5800000000004,"text":"他就曾經在8月的時候被踢爆"},{"start":4051.6200000000003,"end":4052.94,"text":"也有錄影"},{"start":4052.98,"end":4057.6200000000003,"text":"當初在台上是農田水利署的相關官員"},{"start":4057.6600000000003,"end":4058.98,"text":"限職"},{"start":4059.0200000000004,"end":4063.2200000000003,"text":"中午用的是農田水利署的公務預算辦的餐會"},{"start":4063.26,"end":4065.94,"text":"然後幫特定候選人喊動賺"},{"start":4067.47,"end":4069.0299999999997,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":4069.0699999999997,"end":4070.27,"text":"您講的這個事情"},{"start":4070.31,"end":4074.43,"text":"他基本上就是年度的每一年的一個例行的活動"},{"start":4074.47,"end":4075.5899999999997,"text":"預算是誰的"},{"start":4075.6299999999997,"end":4079.79,"text":"那預算是我們農田水利署的預算"},{"start":4079.83,"end":4080.7099999999996,"text":"是不是公務預算"},{"start":4080.75,"end":4082.6699999999996,"text":"每一年的行的部分"},{"start":4082.7099999999996,"end":4085.0699999999997,"text":"黃天是不是有在台上喊動賺"},{"start":4086.24,"end":4087.2799999999997,"text":"要不要我放影片"},{"start":4087.3199999999997,"end":4091.52,"text":"有非常多的想要競選這一次的前次長"},{"start":4091.56,"end":4094.3199999999997,"text":"有沒有那個處長直接拉著黃世傑的手"},{"start":4094.3599999999997,"end":4097,"text":"還沒有上市的選舉的一個登記"},{"start":4097.04,"end":4099.04,"text":"只是有很多有意願的人來"},{"start":4099.08,"end":4100.5199999999995,"text":"等一下"},{"start":4100.5599999999995,"end":4101.68,"text":"法務部長"},{"start":4101.72,"end":4103.8,"text":"我們的農業部長剛剛講了一個"},{"start":4103.84,"end":4105.2,"text":"華天下之大績"},{"start":4105.24,"end":4106.84,"text":"8月的時候因為還沒有登記"},{"start":4106.88,"end":4110,"text":"所以他即便是民進黨提名的市長候選人"},{"start":4110.04,"end":4112.639999999999,"text":"我跟公務預算在台上喊動賺"},{"start":4112.68,"end":4113.4,"text":"可以"},{"start":4113.4,"end":4116.44,"text":"桃園地檢署已經立案在辦理了"},{"start":4116.48,"end":4117.28,"text":"有嗎"},{"start":4117.32,"end":4119.24,"text":"桃園地檢署立案在辦理"},{"start":4119.28,"end":4121.2,"text":"粉絲剛剛上來前一刻問"},{"start":4121.24,"end":4122.5599999999995,"text":"還沒有這個案件"},{"start":4122.599999999999,"end":4123.5599999999995,"text":"有這個有立案在辦"},{"start":4124.37,"end":4124.93,"text":"所以"},{"start":4125.45,"end":4126.849999999999,"text":"院長還是拉回來"},{"start":4127.93,"end":4129.93,"text":"該會選該查一定要查"},{"start":4129.97,"end":4130.450000000001,"text":"是"},{"start":4130.490000000001,"end":4131.7300000000005,"text":"沒有含扣的空間"},{"start":4131.77,"end":4133.77,"text":"但另外一點最重要的是"},{"start":4133.81,"end":4138.570000000001,"text":"公務預算能不能給候選人上台去做動賺"},{"start":4138.610000000001,"end":4139.77,"text":"守護民主"},{"start":4139.81,"end":4140.85,"text":"連你"},{"start":4140.89,"end":4142.450000000001,"text":"這個界線都要非常清楚"},{"start":4142.490000000001,"end":4145.05,"text":"連你去每個地方六日"},{"start":4145.09,"end":4146.37,"text":"我們之前都問過"},{"start":4146.41,"end":4147.77,"text":"是不是用公務預算"},{"start":4147.81,"end":4148.77,"text":"你都說不是"},{"start":4148.81,"end":4150.85,"text":"如果是私人掏腰包"},{"start":4150.89,"end":4153.29,"text":"當天的公務行程是公務預算"},{"start":4153.33,"end":4156.610000000001,"text":"當天的私人的跟選舉相關的事"},{"start":4156.65,"end":4159.41,"text":"所以這個處長"},{"start":4159.45,"end":4161.53,"text":"除了檢調在查有沒有會選以外"},{"start":4161.57,"end":4163.29,"text":"這個處長要不要就責"},{"start":4164.4,"end":4166,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":4166.04,"end":4169.2,"text":"已經逾越了公務人員的界線了"},{"start":4169.24,"end":4170.24,"text":"應不應該就責"},{"start":4170.28,"end":4171.719999999999,"text":"請檢調調查清楚以後"},{"start":4171.759999999999,"end":4173.4,"text":"該就責"},{"start":4173.44,"end":4174.04,"text":"該清楚"},{"start":4174.08,"end":4176.679999999999,"text":"我們的政風都睡著了是不是"},{"start":4176.719999999999,"end":4177.88,"text":"這件"},{"start":4177.92,"end":4179.12,"text":"檢調是司法案件"},{"start":4179.16,"end":4181.08,"text":"但是我現在講的是公務員"},{"start":4181.12,"end":4182.4,"text":"到司法的程序了"},{"start":4182.44,"end":4183.96,"text":"我現在講的是公務員"},{"start":4184,"end":4185.48,"text":"那不用內部調查"},{"start":4185.5199999999995,"end":4188.44,"text":"所以之前的霸凌案件不是雙軌並行嗎"},{"start":4188.48,"end":4191,"text":"之前信件案件不是雙軌並行嗎"},{"start":4191.04,"end":4193.48,"text":"只要每次遇到你們標準都變了"},{"start":4193.5199999999995,"end":4194.879999999999,"text":"沒有標準沒有變"},{"start":4194.919999999999,"end":4196.5599999999995,"text":"完全就是標準變"},{"start":4196.599999999999,"end":4198.04,"text":"所以說這是為什麼"},{"start":4198.08,"end":4199.36,"text":"本席覺得非常荒謬"},{"start":4199.4,"end":4201.08,"text":"當農業部長還上台"},{"start":4201.12,"end":4203.12,"text":"來去護航並且講說"},{"start":4203.16,"end":4205.639999999999,"text":"因為我沒有護航"},{"start":4205.679999999999,"end":4206.879999999999,"text":"我沒有這樣嗎"},{"start":4206.919999999999,"end":4209.32,"text":"我行政總理我剛才只是講說"},{"start":4209.36,"end":4211.24,"text":"他的活動是每一年"},{"start":4211.28,"end":4213.879999999999,"text":"每一年的例行的一個活動"},{"start":4213.919999999999,"end":4216.24,"text":"黃世傑他以前以市長候選人身分"},{"start":4216.28,"end":4217.919999999999,"text":"去參加過幾年"},{"start":4217.959999999999,"end":4219.08,"text":"去年有去參加嗎"},{"start":4219.12,"end":4221.799999999999,"text":"每一年的活動都有很多地區"},{"start":4221.84,"end":4223.88,"text":"院長在台上幫黃世傑喊點算嗎"},{"start":4223.92,"end":4224.72,"text":"我不講特定的人"},{"start":4224.76,"end":4226.64,"text":"每一員都有不同的"},{"start":4226.68,"end":4229.16,"text":"我地方政府的相關的議員"},{"start":4229.2,"end":4230.96,"text":"現任的或想選的都會來"},{"start":4231,"end":4231.56,"text":"來院長"},{"start":4232.62,"end":4233.26,"text":"再來"},{"start":4233.3,"end":4235.34,"text":"大齡的事情我們有處理的原則"},{"start":4235.38,"end":4236.62,"text":"所以我們可以處理"},{"start":4236.66,"end":4237.42,"text":"那這些事情"},{"start":4237.46,"end":4239.54,"text":"院長我覺得還有兩個重大議題好不好"},{"start":4240.69,"end":4242.65,"text":"中央今年"},{"start":4242.69,"end":4244.45,"text":"有一個叫做土方之亂"},{"start":4244.49,"end":4246.129999999999,"text":"但是我覺得這個是大家一起來面對"},{"start":4246.97,"end":4250.81,"text":"本席身為新北第一選區的立法委員"},{"start":4250.85,"end":4253.25,"text":"我們有一個很重要的建設叫做台北港"},{"start":4253.95,"end":4255.51,"text":"台北港需要加速建設"},{"start":4255.55,"end":4256.63,"text":"本席同意"},{"start":4256.67,"end":4257.51,"text":"不要破壞生態"},{"start":4257.55,"end":4258.67,"text":"不要破壞環境"},{"start":4258.71,"end":4260.03,"text":"但另外更重要的是"},{"start":4260.07,"end":4263.19,"text":"不能影響到大理地區的居民"},{"start":4263.23,"end":4264.349999999999,"text":"我來請院長看一下"},{"start":4264.389999999999,"end":4265.47,"text":"今天上午的狀況"},{"start":4266.16,"end":4267.84,"text":"今天上午五點半"},{"start":4267.88,"end":4269.28,"text":"民眾一出門"},{"start":4269.32,"end":4271.2,"text":"看到他的門口前"},{"start":4271.24,"end":4273.88,"text":"排了幾百台的砂石車"},{"start":4273.92,"end":4275.5599999999995,"text":"這已經不是第一次了"},{"start":4275.599999999999,"end":4277.92,"text":"但是這幾天特別嚴重"},{"start":4277.96,"end":4279.4,"text":"來我們秀一下幾張照片"},{"start":4279.94,"end":4280.339999999999,"text":"下面"},{"start":4281.08,"end":4281.48,"text":"下面"},{"start":4282.99,"end":4283.51,"text":"還有嗎"},{"start":4285.72,"end":4286.4400000000005,"text":"好 沒關係"},{"start":4287.07,"end":4287.389999999999,"text":"院長"},{"start":4288.03,"end":4289.87,"text":"本期間一早就收到了"},{"start":4289.91,"end":4292.59,"text":"我們地方的鄉親傳來的Line"},{"start":4292.63,"end":4295.51,"text":"那並且有講到是說排滿了"},{"start":4296.69,"end":4297.049999999999,"text":"你看"},{"start":4298.23,"end":4301.349999999999,"text":"巴黎舊的驅工所前面"},{"start":4301.389999999999,"end":4303.99,"text":"全部都是砂石車在路邊等待"},{"start":4304.03,"end":4304.95,"text":"要進台北港"},{"start":4305.69,"end":4307.65,"text":"這是從早上五點半開始"},{"start":4308.37,"end":4310.33,"text":"現在兩個問題"},{"start":4310.37,"end":4312.29,"text":"本期也馬上調了資料"},{"start":4312.33,"end":4314.73,"text":"說台北港過去在前幾個月"},{"start":4314.7699999999995,"end":4315.93,"text":"差不多一天"},{"start":4315.97,"end":4319.05,"text":"一千兩百台到一千五百台的砂石車進入"},{"start":4319.09,"end":4321.13,"text":"但是這一兩個月"},{"start":4321.17,"end":4322.97,"text":"平均一天都兩千台"},{"start":4323.01,"end":4324.65,"text":"所以造成就是去化"},{"start":4324.69,"end":4325.89,"text":"有塞車的狀況"},{"start":4325.93,"end":4327.41,"text":"那塞車他就回堵"},{"start":4327.45,"end":4328.97,"text":"那台北港我們之前也協調"},{"start":4329.01,"end":4330.93,"text":"港務公司你要趕快開門"},{"start":4330.97,"end":4332.01,"text":"讓他們進去"},{"start":4332.05,"end":4332.69,"text":"堵在裡面"},{"start":4332.73,"end":4334.33,"text":"不要影響到外面民眾的一個"},{"start":4335.91,"end":4336.19,"text":"好"},{"start":4336.23,"end":4338.87,"text":"可是現在連外面都影響到了"},{"start":4338.91,"end":4341.11,"text":"而且因為他們要持續進入"},{"start":4341.15,"end":4342.67,"text":"所以他們每一台都帶數"},{"start":4343.38,"end":4344.3,"text":"那就變成是說"},{"start":4344.34,"end":4345.9800000000005,"text":"帶數造成空氣污染"},{"start":4346.02,"end":4348.18,"text":"造成砂石車佔據一個車道"},{"start":4348.22,"end":4349.22,"text":"並且要再進去"},{"start":4349.84,"end":4352.2,"text":"整個讓民眾的生活完全受影響"},{"start":4352.24,"end":4353.56,"text":"那對比六月"},{"start":4353.6,"end":4354.6,"text":"你也去看了台北港"},{"start":4354.64,"end":4355.08,"text":"台中港"},{"start":4355.12,"end":4355.96,"text":"高雄港"},{"start":4356,"end":4357.68,"text":"當時你的影片"},{"start":4359.06,"end":4362.14,"text":"一直講說要收大量能收容對象"},{"start":4362.69,"end":4363.69,"text":"沒有人反對"},{"start":4363.73,"end":4365.21,"text":"只要不要破壞生態"},{"start":4365.25,"end":4367.29,"text":"可是現在這個問題要怎麼解"},{"start":4367.33,"end":4367.69,"text":"院長"},{"start":4367.73,"end":4368.889999999999,"text":"我先講三個原則"},{"start":4368.929999999999,"end":4370.21,"text":"再請部長說"},{"start":4370.25,"end":4370.61,"text":"第一個"},{"start":4370.65,"end":4373.53,"text":"台北港每年收取這個建築物土石方"},{"start":4373.57,"end":4376.009999999999,"text":"量五百萬立方是固定的"},{"start":4376.049999999999,"end":4376.65,"text":"是固定的"},{"start":4376.69,"end":4378.33,"text":"他不會隨時增加"},{"start":4378.37,"end":4379.009999999999,"text":"第二個"},{"start":4379.049999999999,"end":4380.089999999999,"text":"我們去到台北港之後"},{"start":4380.129999999999,"end":4382.33,"text":"他本來只有一個檢查的這個通道"},{"start":4382.37,"end":4384.169999999999,"text":"現在我們把它擴增為兩個"},{"start":4384.21,"end":4387.29,"text":"這些都是粉絲過去有開協調會"},{"start":4387.33,"end":4387.889999999999,"text":"院長"},{"start":4387.929999999999,"end":4390.73,"text":"粉絲只想問是早上民眾傳這樣子"},{"start":4390.7699999999995,"end":4391.41,"text":"第三個"},{"start":4391.45,"end":4394.25,"text":"我們要求內政部也好"},{"start":4394.29,"end":4394.849999999999,"text":"交通部也好"},{"start":4394.889999999999,"end":4396.7699999999995,"text":"一定要跟新北市政府"},{"start":4396.8099999999995,"end":4400.29,"text":"要好好的協助做交通上的紓解"},{"start":4400.33,"end":4400.69,"text":"院長"},{"start":4400.73,"end":4401.849999999999,"text":"如果是您的話"},{"start":4401.889999999999,"end":4402.37,"text":"我相信"},{"start":4402.41,"end":4404.889999999999,"text":"您可以接受你的家人小朋友"},{"start":4404.93,"end":4405.8099999999995,"text":"一出來門口"},{"start":4405.849999999999,"end":4407.33,"text":"看到這樣子沙子在拍賣"},{"start":4407.37,"end":4408.29,"text":"我相信"},{"start":4408.33,"end":4409.21,"text":"我也要要求"},{"start":4409.25,"end":4411.53,"text":"這應該不是每一天24小時"},{"start":4411.57,"end":4413.49,"text":"或是早上5點半"},{"start":4413.53,"end":4413.73,"text":"對"},{"start":4413.7699999999995,"end":4414.37,"text":"到9點"},{"start":4414.41,"end":4417.09,"text":"就是利用這個比較不影響交通的時候"},{"start":4417.13,"end":4418.09,"text":"有比較大量"},{"start":4418.13,"end":4420.41,"text":"等到交通很擁塞的時候"},{"start":4420.41,"end":4421.49,"text":"或人比較多的時候"},{"start":4421.53,"end":4423.49,"text":"所以早上就可以原先嗎"},{"start":4423.53,"end":4424.61,"text":"那這個因為"},{"start":4424.65,"end":4425.05,"text":"院長"},{"start":4425.09,"end":4427.889999999999,"text":"不是粉絲現在想聽到你的話"},{"start":4427.93,"end":4429.61,"text":"是說你就折成交通部長"},{"start":4429.65,"end":4430.53,"text":"折成相關單位"},{"start":4430.57,"end":4432.37,"text":"是不是一個禮拜內到現場"},{"start":4432.41,"end":4434.17,"text":"我們來檢討怎麼解決問題"},{"start":4434.21,"end":4435.25,"text":"就是說這個"},{"start":4435.29,"end":4437.73,"text":"第三就是我在處理整個"},{"start":4437.7699999999995,"end":4439.8099999999995,"text":"這個解決方的問題的時候"},{"start":4439.849999999999,"end":4441.73,"text":"我都要求內政部交通部"},{"start":4441.7699999999995,"end":4443.7699999999995,"text":"一定要協助地方政府做好交通紓解"},{"start":4443.8099999999995,"end":4444.49,"text":"一個禮拜內"},{"start":4444.53,"end":4446.29,"text":"我們一起到台北港現場"},{"start":4446.33,"end":4447.889999999999,"text":"就會看可以嗎"},{"start":4447.93,"end":4448.889999999999,"text":"我們來針對問題"},{"start":4448.93,"end":4449.889999999999,"text":"解決問題可以嗎"},{"start":4449.89,"end":4451.410000000001,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒"},{"start":4451.450000000001,"end":4453.25,"text":"我覺得這是很重要的問題"},{"start":4453.29,"end":4454.09,"text":"因為確實"},{"start":4454.13,"end":4455.25,"text":"我還有一個議題"},{"start":4455.29,"end":4457.650000000001,"text":"一個禮拜內我們去現場做會勘"},{"start":4457.6900000000005,"end":4458.93,"text":"針對問題解決問題"},{"start":4458.97,"end":4459.530000000001,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":4459.570000000001,"end":4460.89,"text":"您就安排會勘"},{"start":4460.93,"end":4462.05,"text":"委員您就安排會勘"},{"start":4462.09,"end":4463.77,"text":"我們交通部會配合沒有問題"},{"start":4463.81,"end":4464.7300000000005,"text":"來部長"},{"start":4464.77,"end":4467.09,"text":"那本席再進一步的建議"},{"start":4467.13,"end":4470.37,"text":"因為現在我們6461也已經接上了"},{"start":4470.410000000001,"end":4471.570000000001,"text":"可是很多國人在講"},{"start":4471.610000000001,"end":4473.7300000000005,"text":"因為台北港現在越來越擴大"},{"start":4473.77,"end":4476.29,"text":"那611是我們所謂的這個西濱公路"},{"start":4476.33,"end":4477.81,"text":"也是所謂的這個"},{"start":4477.85,"end":4479.93,"text":"簡易版或平民版的高速公路"},{"start":4479.97,"end":4481.570000000001,"text":"有這樣的一個美稱"},{"start":4481.610000000001,"end":4482.7300000000005,"text":"那有人就在講是說"},{"start":4482.77,"end":4486.01,"text":"這些砂石車很有可能也都有往中南部的移動"},{"start":4486.05,"end":4488.29,"text":"能不能我們多研議"},{"start":4488.330000000001,"end":4491.17,"text":"有一個閘道611直接進入到台北港"},{"start":4491.21,"end":4492.410000000001,"text":"讓台北港的砂石車"},{"start":4492.450000000001,"end":4494.21,"text":"如果未來他是要往中南部走的時候"},{"start":4494.25,"end":4495.530000000001,"text":"直接就上611"},{"start":4495.570000000001,"end":4497.29,"text":"不要再進巴黎市區"},{"start":4497.330000000001,"end":4498.490000000001,"text":"然後再去上611"},{"start":4498.530000000001,"end":4500.01,"text":"您這個建議這樣可以嗎"},{"start":4500.05,"end":4500.97,"text":"我們來看長期"},{"start":4501.01,"end":4503.6900000000005,"text":"如果說這個砂石車進來的量會是長期的"},{"start":4503.7300000000005,"end":4505.490000000001,"text":"我覺得這個是值得討論的"},{"start":4505.530000000001,"end":4507.530000000001,"text":"所以不管砂石車或是工程車"},{"start":4507.57,"end":4508.929999999999,"text":"我們來研議這方面"},{"start":4508.969999999999,"end":4510.09,"text":"好 貨運車"},{"start":4510.13,"end":4511.29,"text":"可以"},{"start":4511.33,"end":4511.889999999999,"text":"好 可以"},{"start":4511.929999999999,"end":4514.09,"text":"那院長我就當您是一個同意"},{"start":4514.13,"end":4515.53,"text":"好 最後"},{"start":4520.09,"end":4521.21,"text":"上上禮拜"},{"start":4521.25,"end":4523.01,"text":"這是世界的大問題"},{"start":4524.63,"end":4525.83,"text":"媒體就有報導"},{"start":4525.87,"end":4529.03,"text":"就講說為什麼對台軍售卡關"},{"start":4530.28,"end":4534.16,"text":"立法院已經正式通過7800億特別預算"},{"start":4534.2,"end":4537.599999999999,"text":"他是兩次110億美金的第一次軍售"},{"start":4537.639999999999,"end":4540.44,"text":"以及第二次的140億的軍售"},{"start":4540.48,"end":4542.44,"text":"所以現在我們錢都給你了"},{"start":4543.07,"end":4545.91,"text":"但現在140億的軍售是暫停的"},{"start":4546.49,"end":4546.929999999999,"text":"那"},{"start":4547.49,"end":4549.53,"text":"媒體就報導四大理由"},{"start":4549.57,"end":4553.29,"text":"有可能是川普把軍售當成是對台"},{"start":4553.33,"end":4555.33,"text":"對中談判的一個籌碼"},{"start":4555.37,"end":4556.37,"text":"或是北京的施壓"},{"start":4557.11,"end":4558.91,"text":"那本席在這邊再一次強調立場"},{"start":4558.95,"end":4560.3099999999995,"text":"中華民國的捍衛"},{"start":4560.349999999999,"end":4561.95,"text":"我們一起共同來捍衛"},{"start":4561.99,"end":4563.59,"text":"但我現在想問的是"},{"start":4563.63,"end":4564.63,"text":"從上個禮拜"},{"start":4564.67,"end":4566.59,"text":"上上禮拜川習會之後到現在"},{"start":4566.63,"end":4568.349999999999,"text":"賴清德總統有沒有找院長這邊"},{"start":4568.389999999999,"end":4569.79,"text":"在做沙盤推演跟開會"},{"start":4569.83,"end":4570.83,"text":"國事國安會議"},{"start":4571.7,"end":4572.74,"text":"美台關係"},{"start":4573.9,"end":4575.099999999999,"text":"長期合作"},{"start":4575.139999999999,"end":4577.299999999999,"text":"跟現在科技經濟合作是穩定的"},{"start":4577.85,"end":4579.650000000001,"text":"川習會 川習二會"},{"start":4579.6900000000005,"end":4581.97,"text":"我們在會前 會中 會後"},{"start":4582.01,"end":4584.410000000001,"text":"都隨時保持注意"},{"start":4584.450000000001,"end":4585.410000000001,"text":"我們也認為"},{"start":4585.450000000001,"end":4589.13,"text":"並沒有發生我們意外的事情發生"},{"start":4589.17,"end":4591.21,"text":"至於美台之間"},{"start":4591.25,"end":4594.85,"text":"已經發生了或將發生的這些軍售"},{"start":4594.89,"end":4597.13,"text":"我們也在按計畫的執行當中"},{"start":4597.17,"end":4597.650000000001,"text":"什麼時候會來"},{"start":4597.6900000000005,"end":4599.21,"text":"因為今天本席有看到"},{"start":4599.25,"end":4600.89,"text":"駐美代表余大雷"},{"start":4600.93,"end":4602.490000000001,"text":"他接受彭博的專訪"},{"start":4602.530000000001,"end":4603.89,"text":"他也特別講到是說"},{"start":4603.93,"end":4604.29,"text":"他"},{"start":4605.21,"end":4606.25,"text":"他直接講"},{"start":4606.29,"end":4608.25,"text":"這是余大雷的一個講法"},{"start":4608.29,"end":4609.09,"text":"今天的報導"},{"start":4609.13,"end":4609.7300000000005,"text":"彭博報導"},{"start":4609.77,"end":4610.61,"text":"他說"},{"start":4610.65,"end":4612.85,"text":"川普即將拍板140億"},{"start":4612.89,"end":4614.09,"text":"對台軍售"},{"start":4614.13,"end":4615.13,"text":"有這樣的一個消息嗎"},{"start":4615.86,"end":4616.98,"text":"請部長說明一下"},{"start":4617.0199999999995,"end":4621.34,"text":"我想我們有關對台軍售的這個部分"},{"start":4621.38,"end":4622.5,"text":"美方表示"},{"start":4622.54,"end":4624.139999999999,"text":"這個仍然在審議當中"},{"start":4624.179999999999,"end":4626.9,"text":"我們尊重美方的這個審議的程序"},{"start":4626.94,"end":4629.98,"text":"那這樣子駐美代表是破壞了美國"},{"start":4630.0199999999995,"end":4630.5,"text":"對我們的邏輯"},{"start":4630.54,"end":4633.099999999999,"text":"我有看到余大使的一個說法"},{"start":4633.139999999999,"end":4635.42,"text":"他是希望盡快來決定"},{"start":4635.46,"end":4637.66,"text":"那我想川普總統也一再表示"},{"start":4637.7,"end":4638.94,"text":"他會盡快決定"},{"start":4638.98,"end":4640.9,"text":"那美國的戰爭部也一再表示"},{"start":4640.94,"end":4642.58,"text":"對我們的這個軍售的計畫"},{"start":4642.62,"end":4644.0199999999995,"text":"沒有任何的改變"},{"start":4644.06,"end":4646.26,"text":"所以我們就靜待這個美國"},{"start":4646.3,"end":4647.740000000001,"text":"來適時的發表"},{"start":4647.780000000001,"end":4649.540000000001,"text":"對我們的這個軍售破產"},{"start":4650.19,"end":4651.07,"text":"我都尊重說"},{"start":4651.11,"end":4652.629999999999,"text":"站在捍衛中華民國立場"},{"start":4652.669999999999,"end":4654.15,"text":"我絕對都全力支持"},{"start":4654.19,"end":4656.07,"text":"但是我們不能"},{"start":4656.11,"end":4657.549999999999,"text":"被人家當成是籌碼"},{"start":4657.589999999999,"end":4658.469999999999,"text":"我想這個是"},{"start":4658.509999999999,"end":4660.509999999999,"text":"不管誰執政都應該要捍衛的"},{"start":4660.549999999999,"end":4664.23,"text":"那現在川普他已經公開在媒體上面講是說"},{"start":4664.2699999999995,"end":4668.75,"text":"對台軍售是他跟北京交涉非常好的談判籌碼"},{"start":4668.79,"end":4669.71,"text":"我想請教"},{"start":4669.75,"end":4671.19,"text":"到這一句話出來"},{"start":4671.23,"end":4673.07,"text":"到現在也兩三個月過去了"},{"start":4673.11,"end":4674.389999999999,"text":"我們有沒有透過任何管道"},{"start":4674.429999999999,"end":4676.669999999999,"text":"向美國政府來去表達抗議"},{"start":4677.3,"end":4678.9800000000005,"text":"我想我們跟美方"},{"start":4679.02,"end":4680.22,"text":"這個應該是院長要回答的"},{"start":4681.16,"end":4683.24,"text":"我們跟美方的關係一直很穩定"},{"start":4683.28,"end":4686.12,"text":"而且軍售的問題已經發生的"},{"start":4686.16,"end":4688.16,"text":"或是還在川普已經講說"},{"start":4688.2,"end":4690.68,"text":"都按照軍售是非常好的談判籌碼"},{"start":4690.72,"end":4692.28,"text":"您認同這句話嗎"},{"start":4692.32,"end":4694.5199999999995,"text":"這個事實並非如此"},{"start":4694.5599999999995,"end":4697.04,"text":"那是不是也違反了過去六項保證"},{"start":4697.08,"end":4698.72,"text":"已經發生的川習二會已經結束"},{"start":4698.76,"end":4700.8,"text":"北京來交涉對台軍售"},{"start":4700.84,"end":4701.599999999999,"text":"所以這保證"},{"start":4701.639999999999,"end":4703.44,"text":"台灣關係法都違反了"},{"start":4703.48,"end":4704.48,"text":"是美國對台灣"},{"start":4704.5199999999995,"end":4706.84,"text":"接下來我們川習還有兩會"},{"start":4706.88,"end":4707.8,"text":"關係一個承諾"},{"start":4707.84,"end":4708.76,"text":"包括11月的APEC"},{"start":4708.8,"end":4710.88,"text":"以及包括12月的G20"},{"start":4710.92,"end":4712.08,"text":"他們兩大領導人"},{"start":4712.12,"end":4714.28,"text":"以及其他世界各國領導人怎麼樣"},{"start":4714.32,"end":4715.84,"text":"我們真的很難想像"},{"start":4715.88,"end":4717.4800000000005,"text":"但是我們絕不能變成籌碼"},{"start":4717.52,"end":4719.56,"text":"所以說我想要問的是"},{"start":4719.6,"end":4720.84,"text":"過去我們一直建議"},{"start":4720.88,"end":4722.16,"text":"賴清德總統應該要"},{"start":4722.2,"end":4723.4400000000005,"text":"急速召開國安會議"},{"start":4723.4800000000005,"end":4724.72,"text":"國事會議"},{"start":4724.76,"end":4725.96,"text":"院長你的態度是什麼"},{"start":4726.67,"end":4728.07,"text":"我們透過各種形式"},{"start":4728.11,"end":4730.35,"text":"都在每週甚至不定期的"},{"start":4730.39,"end":4732.79,"text":"願意讓蔡英文總統兩位"},{"start":4744.54,"end":4746.22,"text":"好謝謝洪委員"},{"start":4746.26,"end":4747.46,"text":"謝謝卓院長"},{"start":4748.18,"end":4748.9400000000005,"text":"下一位"},{"start":4750.26,"end":4752.34,"text":"請洪玉祥委員諮詢"},{"start":4768.19,"end":4769.79,"text":"好謝謝副院長"},{"start":4769.83,"end":4771.83,"text":"那我們有請卓院長"},{"start":4771.87,"end":4773.19,"text":"請卓院長備詢"},{"start":4783.5,"end":4784.26,"text":"洪委員好"},{"start":4784.3,"end":4785.5,"text":"好院長好"},{"start":4785.54,"end":4789.54,"text":"那我想今天第一個議題來講的話"},{"start":4789.58,"end":4790.54,"text":"就是下一題"},{"start":4791.24,"end":4793.16,"text":"這是我們昨天的話"},{"start":4793.2,"end":4795.12,"text":"過去結會一堆的"},{"start":4795.16,"end":4797.08,"text":"駐外人員的一個爆料"},{"start":4798.37,"end":4800.65,"text":"我們開完這個黨團的記者會"},{"start":4800.69,"end":4802.57,"text":"我相信院長也看到"},{"start":4802.61,"end":4804.7699999999995,"text":"我想先問院長"},{"start":4804.8099999999995,"end":4806.049999999999,"text":"其實我蠻敬佩院長"},{"start":4806.87,"end":4810.19,"text":"起碼院長是自費到日本去看棒球"},{"start":4811.34,"end":4814.74,"text":"那應該你在你的公務行程裡頭"},{"start":4814.78,"end":4819.06,"text":"應該有沒有帶家人什麼這些同行"},{"start":4820.12,"end":4821.04,"text":"公務行程"},{"start":4823.14,"end":4825.46,"text":"如果有一些行程必定要帶"},{"start":4826.28,"end":4827.36,"text":"這個家人的話"},{"start":4827.4,"end":4828.2,"text":"那他會註明"},{"start":4828.24,"end":4830.639999999999,"text":"那我這兩年當中是沒有發生過這種事"},{"start":4830.679999999999,"end":4832.36,"text":"OK好謝謝"},{"start":4832.4,"end":4834.44,"text":"那基本上來講的話"},{"start":4834.48,"end":4836.599999999999,"text":"我想在這一塊地方的話"},{"start":4837.24,"end":4839.5199999999995,"text":"也就是說在這一個過去來講"},{"start":4839.5599999999995,"end":4841.679999999999,"text":"我們除了在8月揭露"},{"start":4842.86,"end":4845.86,"text":"這個東沙的生態體驗營的活動等等"},{"start":4845.9,"end":4847.86,"text":"當然這個監察院有認定"},{"start":4847.9,"end":4849.98,"text":"是違反了這個立沖法"},{"start":4851.1900000000005,"end":4852.35,"text":"接下來的話"},{"start":4852.39,"end":4853.47,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":4853.51,"end":4855.83,"text":"我們再根據這樣子的爆料"},{"start":4855.87,"end":4857.1900000000005,"text":"我們再往下看"},{"start":4860.47,"end":4863.39,"text":"那當然除了這個退資費"},{"start":4864.68,"end":4868.160000000001,"text":"當然出差率退資費當然無可厚非"},{"start":4868.200000000001,"end":4870,"text":"但是這個有點誇張"},{"start":4870.04,"end":4870.8,"text":"在下一個"},{"start":4872.96,"end":4874.2,"text":"那出國的炭素"},{"start":4874.24,"end":4877.72,"text":"我們跟過去的委員長做比較"},{"start":4877.76,"end":4879.92,"text":"也是非常的誇張"},{"start":4880.49,"end":4883.61,"text":"當然可能有其任務的需要"},{"start":4883.65,"end":4885.57,"text":"但是這一個偏數"},{"start":4885.61,"end":4887.37,"text":"實在是有點扯"},{"start":4887.41,"end":4889.69,"text":"從111年到這樣子的話"},{"start":4889.73,"end":4890.49,"text":"不值得抱怨"},{"start":4891.44,"end":4892.04,"text":"再往下"},{"start":4896.09,"end":4898.01,"text":"因為諮詢的事就爆料了"},{"start":4899.13,"end":4902.650000000001,"text":"這個是一個國家的一個高階的官員的訪團"},{"start":4903.35,"end":4905.71,"text":"那為什麼還有十幾歲的兒子"},{"start":4906.54,"end":4908.78,"text":"包裝成這樣子的一個攝影"},{"start":4909.46,"end":4910.82,"text":"所以這個實際的外館"},{"start":4910.86,"end":4912.86,"text":"你看到有點"},{"start":4914.87,"end":4915.67,"text":"再來"},{"start":4916.69,"end":4918.889999999999,"text":"那往這邊的公帑"},{"start":4918.929999999999,"end":4920.53,"text":"食物交通接送"},{"start":4920.57,"end":4922.009999999999,"text":"我們也不曉得"},{"start":4922.049999999999,"end":4925.17,"text":"這個是不是真的有使用這樣的公費"},{"start":4925.71,"end":4926.35,"text":"再往下"},{"start":4927.84,"end":4929.04,"text":"那出席的時候"},{"start":4929.08,"end":4931.16,"text":"這個都是人家這個調介"},{"start":4931.2,"end":4932.68,"text":"或者是住在人家提供的"},{"start":4933.98,"end":4934.7,"text":"在這裡頭"},{"start":4934.74,"end":4936.86,"text":"各位可以看到上一張的這個"},{"start":4936.9,"end":4938.9,"text":"目前的照片"},{"start":4939.63,"end":4941.03,"text":"那手機在滑的時候"},{"start":4941.07,"end":4942.03,"text":"我們就要想"},{"start":4942.07,"end":4944.67,"text":"既然都是號稱機密行程"},{"start":4945.25,"end":4947.29,"text":"不可以跟立法委員報告"},{"start":4948.39,"end":4949.55,"text":"但是這樣子的話"},{"start":4949.59,"end":4951.1900000000005,"text":"在使用手機的時候"},{"start":4951.85,"end":4952.81,"text":"我就很懷疑"},{"start":4952.85,"end":4954.370000000001,"text":"是不是有國家機密的問題"},{"start":4955.66,"end":4957.82,"text":"那我們做完這樣子的回覆的時候"},{"start":4958.82,"end":4961.139999999999,"text":"其實我是要請外交部次長"},{"start":4961.179999999999,"end":4963.0199999999995,"text":"其他兩位可以先請回"},{"start":4964.48,"end":4966.24,"text":"我們也要問相關法律的問題"},{"start":4966.28,"end":4967.799999999999,"text":"我只是想問調查的問題"},{"start":4968.64,"end":4969.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":4971.78,"end":4972.62,"text":"要說明"},{"start":4972.66,"end":4975.62,"text":"那是不是可以有時間讓委員長自己說明"},{"start":4975.66,"end":4978.42,"text":"當時或是現在他應該跟委員解釋"},{"start":4978.46,"end":4980.0599999999995,"text":"沒關係 我們先請外交部"},{"start":4980.099999999999,"end":4980.62,"text":"就是說"},{"start":4980.66,"end":4984.0599999999995,"text":"因為昨天外交部針對這件事情的一個回覆"},{"start":4984.96,"end":4989.36,"text":"那我也覺得說應該就是組成一個獨立的調查"},{"start":4990.12,"end":4993,"text":"那所以基本上我是有幾個建議"},{"start":4993.6,"end":4994.16,"text":"第一個"},{"start":4995.07,"end":4998.87,"text":"就是在做公務車的使用的時候"},{"start":4998.91,"end":5002.63,"text":"有沒有違反我們駐外機構公務車的車輛的"},{"start":5002.67,"end":5004.3099999999995,"text":"換購跟管理的要點"},{"start":5005.43,"end":5006.83,"text":"那如果以北北"},{"start":5006.87,"end":5009.2300000000005,"text":"這個的話是公務車是處長"},{"start":5009.27,"end":5010.43,"text":"負責管理"},{"start":5010.47,"end":5013.79,"text":"涉及的可能還包含華府中心的主任"},{"start":5013.83,"end":5014.63,"text":"副主任"},{"start":5014.67,"end":5015.59,"text":"僱員"},{"start":5015.63,"end":5017.75,"text":"然後另外還有美處的行政組"},{"start":5018.78,"end":5021.139999999999,"text":"因為他負責的是車輛的管理"},{"start":5021.179999999999,"end":5022.78,"text":"另外還有政治組"},{"start":5022.82,"end":5024.62,"text":"因為對口是國務院"},{"start":5024.66,"end":5027.66,"text":"因為我們的車牌掛的是EBA的車牌"},{"start":5028.53,"end":5030.57,"text":"另外的話還有我們的會計組"},{"start":5030.61,"end":5032.57,"text":"因為你要查你的里程數"},{"start":5032.61,"end":5034.21,"text":"燃料的使用費"},{"start":5035.1,"end":5039.34,"text":"另外可能也要詢問一下當時的余大使"},{"start":5039.38,"end":5042.1,"text":"以及駐德國的謝志偉大使"},{"start":5042.14,"end":5046.740000000001,"text":"我們都希望外交部能夠秉持獨立調查的原則"},{"start":5047.57,"end":5051.45,"text":"那昨天部長在你們外交部的回覆的新聞稿"},{"start":5051.49,"end":5052.009999999999,"text":"也回覆了"},{"start":5053.09,"end":5054.7300000000005,"text":"那我是非常肯定的"},{"start":5054.77,"end":5055.77,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":5055.81,"end":5056.97,"text":"你可以告訴我"},{"start":5057.01,"end":5058.85,"text":"你們現在在內部"},{"start":5058.89,"end":5061.81,"text":"會不會組成獨立的調查小組"},{"start":5063.09,"end":5063.93,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":5063.97,"end":5065.93,"text":"因為我們是昨天才"},{"start":5065.97,"end":5068.25,"text":"第一這件事情並沒有任何人"},{"start":5068.29,"end":5070.05,"text":"向外交部提出檢舉"},{"start":5070.09,"end":5073.09,"text":"但昨天民眾黨開記者會之後"},{"start":5073.13,"end":5074.53,"text":"我們已經召開會議"},{"start":5074.57,"end":5077.13,"text":"然後請我們外館釐清真相"},{"start":5077.17,"end":5078.25,"text":"這點已經開始在做了"},{"start":5078.29,"end":5080.6900000000005,"text":"那這個調查的程序要多久"},{"start":5081.62,"end":5082.9,"text":"我們已經開始啟動了"},{"start":5082.94,"end":5086.78,"text":"那調查程序我們就等外館給我們回報"},{"start":5086.82,"end":5088.86,"text":"我們再來跟委員做報告"},{"start":5088.9,"end":5089.38,"text":"好"},{"start":5089.42,"end":5091.34,"text":"因為基本上來講的話"},{"start":5091.38,"end":5093.94,"text":"院長在早上對記者的回覆"},{"start":5093.98,"end":5095.94,"text":"也是責成外交部"},{"start":5095.98,"end":5098.34,"text":"就這些公務使用的部分"},{"start":5098.38,"end":5101.38,"text":"做詳盡獨立的一個調查"},{"start":5101.42,"end":5103.7,"text":"因為我覺得這一點是很重要"},{"start":5103.74,"end":5107.78,"text":"如果真的調查沒有所謂的這種爆料的情勢的事情"},{"start":5108.74,"end":5111.74,"text":"當然就是還我們徐家英委的這個清白"},{"start":5111.78,"end":5112.9,"text":"但是如果有"},{"start":5113.61,"end":5116.17,"text":"那我們也希望看到詳細的"},{"start":5116.21,"end":5119.45,"text":"這些的調查的紀錄研究報告"},{"start":5119.49,"end":5122.37,"text":"因為國文對這件事情深惡痛絕"},{"start":5124.03,"end":5124.75,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":5124.79,"end":5126.349999999999,"text":"剛才你提供資料"},{"start":5126.389999999999,"end":5127.55,"text":"跟謝志偉大使"},{"start":5127.59,"end":5129.429999999999,"text":"那時候我也是駐化大使"},{"start":5129.469999999999,"end":5131.2699999999995,"text":"所以應該在同時"},{"start":5131.3099999999995,"end":5133.71,"text":"徐家英委員也有到法處來"},{"start":5133.75,"end":5136.55,"text":"並沒有所謂攝影觀這個情形發生"},{"start":5136.59,"end":5137.2699999999995,"text":"OK"},{"start":5137.3099999999995,"end":5140.75,"text":"你們這個反正你就好好調查"},{"start":5140.79,"end":5144.75,"text":"因為我們今天後面的爆料是如雪片般的飛來"},{"start":5144.79,"end":5146.429999999999,"text":"然後都有提供照片"},{"start":5146.469999999999,"end":5148.11,"text":"還有提供私下的錄音"},{"start":5149.05,"end":5150.85,"text":"我們只是沒有完全播放"},{"start":5151.5199999999995,"end":5154.759999999999,"text":"那所以基本上我還是希望你們勿枉勿眾"},{"start":5154.799999999999,"end":5156.639999999999,"text":"然後好好的去調查"},{"start":5156.679999999999,"end":5157.12,"text":"因為"},{"start":5157.99,"end":5158.63,"text":"我自己"},{"start":5159.37,"end":5161.57,"text":"從進入產業接待外商"},{"start":5161.61,"end":5162.93,"text":"到產業工作"},{"start":5162.97,"end":5166.69,"text":"我每年非出國考察開會的探數"},{"start":5167.95,"end":5168.67,"text":"非常偏偏"},{"start":5169.73,"end":5171.69,"text":"但我從來沒有帶什麼家人"},{"start":5171.73,"end":5173.33,"text":"親戚一起公務"},{"start":5174,"end":5176.08,"text":"我們早上到了美國"},{"start":5176.12,"end":5177.28,"text":"就是立刻開會"},{"start":5177.96,"end":5178.6,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5178.64,"end":5179.4,"text":"飛美國的話"},{"start":5179.44,"end":5180.88,"text":"就12點多早上到"},{"start":5180.92,"end":5183.2,"text":"9點半10點我們就開會"},{"start":5183.24,"end":5183.92,"text":"看完後"},{"start":5183.96,"end":5186.72,"text":"我們可能再飛下一個地方開會等等"},{"start":5186.76,"end":5187.88,"text":"所以我是希望"},{"start":5187.92,"end":5191.16,"text":"如果在我們民間產業人士都這麼拼命的話"},{"start":5191.2,"end":5194.24,"text":"我不希望看到有假公濟私這樣的精神"},{"start":5195.17,"end":5196.85,"text":"如果是自費"},{"start":5196.89,"end":5199.570000000001,"text":"合乎這樣子的公務使用規定"},{"start":5199.610000000001,"end":5201.37,"text":"合乎公務生涯使用規定"},{"start":5201.41,"end":5203.89,"text":"那就是把所有的調查的結果"},{"start":5203.93,"end":5205.650000000001,"text":"調查的單據里程數"},{"start":5205.6900000000005,"end":5207.37,"text":"這些全部都查清楚"},{"start":5207.41,"end":5208.41,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5208.45,"end":5209.77,"text":"以上就這件事情"},{"start":5209.81,"end":5211.05,"text":"就拜託外交部"},{"start":5219.79,"end":5220.43,"text":"院長"},{"start":5221.49,"end":5225.33,"text":"就是說在這個追加預算裡面"},{"start":5226.67,"end":5230.63,"text":"我要把我們立法院的預算中心說一下話"},{"start":5231.54,"end":5232.46,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":5232.5,"end":5235.42,"text":"根據我們立法院預算中心"},{"start":5237.26,"end":5239.7,"text":"預算法第二條的明文規定"},{"start":5239.740000000001,"end":5244.06,"text":"在立法程序而公佈才叫法定預算"},{"start":5244.58,"end":5245.0599999999995,"text":"現在起"},{"start":5246.08,"end":5251.68,"text":"基本上總統公佈115年度的總預算是在9月18號"},{"start":5251.68,"end":5254.98,"text":"可是你們9月3號通過9月8號"},{"start":5254.98,"end":5258.12,"text":"就把周家預算函函上立法院"},{"start":5258.12,"end":5260.04,"text":"所以我們預算中心才會說"},{"start":5260.04,"end":5262.24,"text":"這個是有事法性的問題"},{"start":5262.98,"end":5265.54,"text":"也就是說我115年度的總預算"},{"start":5265.54,"end":5267.639999999999,"text":"還沒有經過總統公佈"},{"start":5267.639999999999,"end":5270.7,"text":"還不構成法定預算的時候"},{"start":5270.7,"end":5272.94,"text":"那你行政院是根據哪一條法律"},{"start":5272.94,"end":5278.78,"text":"可以把三讀後尚未通過的預算案先試統法定預算"},{"start":5280.93,"end":5281.77,"text":"哪一條法律"},{"start":5283.8,"end":5285.6,"text":"主席長也可以回答"},{"start":5285.6,"end":5287.88,"text":"預算法它也沒有明文規定"},{"start":5287.88,"end":5289.92,"text":"追加預算提出的時程"},{"start":5289.92,"end":5294.8,"text":"它只有規定最佳預算提出的一個條件"},{"start":5294.8,"end":5299.6,"text":"那現在我們在8月14三讀已經有確認"},{"start":5299.6,"end":5300.68,"text":"所以就"},{"start":5300.68,"end":5301.400000000001,"text":"沒有"},{"start":5301.400000000001,"end":5303.68,"text":"根據79條第三款"},{"start":5303.68,"end":5305.64,"text":"各機關所辦事業"},{"start":5305.64,"end":5310.12,"text":"因重大事故經費超過法定預算時"},{"start":5310.12,"end":5311.88,"text":"得提出追加預算"},{"start":5312.47,"end":5314.63,"text":"然後預算法第二條告訴我們"},{"start":5314.63,"end":5317.71,"text":"經立法程序而公佈者"},{"start":5318.29,"end":5319.57,"text":"成法定預算"},{"start":5320.25,"end":5321.13,"text":"我還沒公佈啊"},{"start":5322.15,"end":5323.71,"text":"9月18才公佈啊"},{"start":5325.31,"end":5326.71,"text":"哪裡的回答是說"},{"start":5327.7699999999995,"end":5328.929999999999,"text":"你有回答了"},{"start":5328.929999999999,"end":5330.13,"text":"你們是有回答了"},{"start":5331.35,"end":5332.75,"text":"你的回答是怎麼回答"},{"start":5333.41,"end":5334.61,"text":"好險你們呢"},{"start":5335.73,"end":5337.849999999999,"text":"立法院三讀通過了嘛"},{"start":5337.849999999999,"end":5340.009999999999,"text":"金額已徵明確"},{"start":5342.82,"end":5345.099999999999,"text":"這是哪一個法律的要件"},{"start":5346.75,"end":5347.75,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":5347.75,"end":5350.31,"text":"預算法裡面剛剛主計長說的"},{"start":5350.31,"end":5353.63,"text":"它對追加預算提出有四個要件"},{"start":5354.26,"end":5357.38,"text":"他並沒有說一定要在哪一個程序之後"},{"start":5357.38,"end":5358.5,"text":"才能提出"},{"start":5358.5,"end":5359.18,"text":"但今天"},{"start":5360.1,"end":5362.14,"text":"追加預算的時間提出"},{"start":5362.65,"end":5365.21,"text":"總預算的通過在後"},{"start":5365.21,"end":5367.849999999999,"text":"問題在大院不在行政院"},{"start":5367.849999999999,"end":5371.65,"text":"是你們延誤了351天才造成這個狀況"},{"start":5371.65,"end":5373.929999999999,"text":"況且追加預算的內容"},{"start":5373.929999999999,"end":5375.61,"text":"沒有在填補本力"},{"start":5375.61,"end":5377.7699999999995,"text":"真的扯不完啊"},{"start":5377.7699999999995,"end":5379.73,"text":"因為那時候"},{"start":5379.73,"end":5381.49,"text":"他的清覺的條件"},{"start":5381.49,"end":5384.25,"text":"就是你的這個法案幾個都不附屬"},{"start":5384.25,"end":5385.69,"text":"不公告不執行嘛"},{"start":5385.69,"end":5388.57,"text":"所以如果現在在主計處的回答就是說"},{"start":5388.57,"end":5390.73,"text":"我立法院三讀通過之後"},{"start":5390.73,"end":5392.33,"text":"總統還沒有公告"},{"start":5392.37,"end":5394.01,"text":"那就是視為法律了"},{"start":5394.01,"end":5395.25,"text":"正視法律了嗎"},{"start":5395.9,"end":5398.58,"text":"這是我們預算中心給你的第二波的回覆"},{"start":5398.58,"end":5399.98,"text":"再回覆"},{"start":5399.98,"end":5400.78,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":5400.78,"end":5403.38,"text":"追加預算我們提出的是穩定民生"},{"start":5404.09,"end":5405.77,"text":"增加社福條約"},{"start":5405.77,"end":5407.25,"text":"我都請你提一聲"},{"start":5407.25,"end":5410.570000000001,"text":"沒有因為預算被刪除之後"},{"start":5410.570000000001,"end":5412.05,"text":"來填補原來的本力"},{"start":5412.05,"end":5413.13,"text":"那個等一下再談"},{"start":5413.13,"end":5413.97,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":5413.97,"end":5415.570000000001,"text":"我從日期來看"},{"start":5415.570000000001,"end":5417.7300000000005,"text":"我不曉得為什麼行政院那個期"},{"start":5417.7300000000005,"end":5419.13,"text":"9月18號"},{"start":5419.13,"end":5420.650000000001,"text":"如果我們公佈了"},{"start":5421.3,"end":5423.66,"text":"你現在9月19號送"},{"start":5423.66,"end":5424.58,"text":"都可以啊"},{"start":5425.17,"end":5425.7300000000005,"text":"因為"},{"start":5426.78,"end":5427.42,"text":"你不急"},{"start":5427.42,"end":5428.46,"text":"我們很急"},{"start":5428.46,"end"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text":"近兩兆元的支出"},{"start":8453.88,"end":8455.88,"text":"我們想要請教的是"},{"start":8455.88,"end":8458.88,"text":"我們少子化到底解決了沒有"},{"start":8458.88,"end":8460.88,"text":"然後勞保的財務結構"},{"start":8460.88,"end":8461.88,"text":"解決了沒有"},{"start":8462.94,"end":8465.94,"text":"健保的財務壓力解決了沒有"},{"start":8465.94,"end":8468.94,"text":"我們閒置的公共設施減少了沒有"},{"start":8469.98,"end":8472.98,"text":"還有我們能遠離遇到國際危機"},{"start":8472.98,"end":8475.98,"text":"還要不要拿幾千億出來補貼"},{"start":8476.41,"end":8479.41,"text":"或者我們國防採購的價格"},{"start":8479.41,"end":8482.41,"text":"有沒有因為採購量變大"},{"start":8482.41,"end":8484.41,"text":"或我們國防的預算增加"},{"start":8484.41,"end":8487.41,"text":"而讓我們的戰力變得更強大"},{"start":8487.41,"end":8490.41,"text":"這些都是我們想要討論的"},{"start":8490.41,"end":8493.41,"text":"或者應該要去重視的預算編列的"},{"start":8493.41,"end":8494.41,"text":"一個實質內涵"},{"start":8494.41,"end":8496.41,"text":"所以預算增加的速度"},{"start":8496.41,"end":8499.41,"text":"我們現在看起來好像遠遠"},{"start":8499.41,"end":8502.41,"text":"超過我們問題消失的速度"},{"start":8502.41,"end":8505.41,"text":"這是我們今天想要初步做探討的"},{"start":8505.41,"end":8507.41,"text":"8月20日行政院正式通過"},{"start":8507.41,"end":8509.41,"text":"116年度總預算"},{"start":8509.41,"end":8514.41,"text":"宣布整體國防預算一兆1225億"},{"start":8514.94,"end":8518.94,"text":"不到半個月9月3日又提出追加預算"},{"start":8518.94,"end":8522.94,"text":"國防的部分也篩進了1457億"},{"start":8523.76,"end":8525.76,"text":"到了9月23日"},{"start":8525.76,"end":8529.76,"text":"總統又把明年國防預算喊到超過1.3兆"},{"start":8530.36,"end":8532.36,"text":"總預算剛過 追加預算馬上來"},{"start":8533.9,"end":8534.9,"text":"現在"},{"start":8535.09,"end":8539.09,"text":"看起來好像這個預算只要能夠送進來"},{"start":8539.09,"end":8542.09,"text":"不管用什麼樣的方式然後不斷的加"},{"start":8542.09,"end":8544.09,"text":"年度預算屢創新高還不夠"},{"start":8544.09,"end":8547.09,"text":"特別預算也年年編 編得不足不夠"},{"start":8547.09,"end":8549.09,"text":"我們又提追加預算"},{"start":8549.09,"end":8553.09,"text":"我們看看這幾年的時間是增加了非常多"},{"start":8554.68,"end":8560.68,"text":"這3兆9266億事實上真的是國家今年全部的帳嗎"},{"start":8560.68,"end":8564.68,"text":"因為我們還有相關的特別預算"},{"start":8564.68,"end":8567.68,"text":"還有追加預算 還有基金"},{"start":8567.68,"end":8569.68,"text":"還有跨年度已經承諾"},{"start":8569.68,"end":8573.68,"text":"可是未來必須要付款的這些相關的支出"},{"start":8573.68,"end":8575.68,"text":"這些其實才是總帳"},{"start":8575.68,"end":8579.68,"text":"所以在這裡我們看到這一次的追加預算裡面"},{"start":8579.68,"end":8582.68,"text":"又放了6076億"},{"start":8582.68,"end":8584.68,"text":"其中中有增資"},{"start":8584.8,"end":8586.8,"text":"大概有2338億"},{"start":8586.8,"end":8590.8,"text":"能源跟民生措施大概1875億"},{"start":8590.8,"end":8593.8,"text":"國防也占了1457億"},{"start":8593.8,"end":8595.8,"text":"當我們看到這些的時候"},{"start":8595.8,"end":8596.8,"text":"因為"},{"start":8598.33,"end":8600.33,"text":"把它拆成三部分"},{"start":8600.33,"end":8602.33,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":8602.82,"end":8605.82,"text":"院長有沒有一個簡要的說明"},{"start":8605.82,"end":8606.82,"text":"像這樣的預算"},{"start":8606.82,"end":8607.82,"text":"我們不斷不斷的編"},{"start":8607.82,"end":8608.82,"text":"我們增加了那麼多"},{"start":8608.82,"end":8611.82,"text":"我們剛剛講的這些問題到底有沒有解決"},{"start":8611.82,"end":8614.82,"text":"好 首先委員剛剛第一張的圖卡"},{"start":8614.82,"end":8617.82,"text":"10年來預算倍增 國力倍增"},{"start":8617.82,"end":8621.82,"text":"那不代表明年預算再倍增 國力就會倍增"},{"start":8621.82,"end":8624.82,"text":"那是用10年的時間大家努力出來的"},{"start":8624.82,"end":8627.82,"text":"每年就持續的緩緩的上升"},{"start":8627.82,"end":8629.82,"text":"即使要國力倍增一倍"},{"start":8629.82,"end":8631.82,"text":"也不一定預算倍增一倍就夠"},{"start":8631.82,"end":8633.82,"text":"那是要持續累積的"},{"start":8633.82,"end":8635.82,"text":"這個你看到是10年不是一年"},{"start":8635.82,"end":8638.82,"text":"在您提到的這個少子化"},{"start":8638.82,"end":8640.82,"text":"就是因為我們看到少子化"},{"start":8640.82,"end":8643.82,"text":"是全世界現在人口減少的未來的一個趨勢"},{"start":8643.82,"end":8644.82,"text":"不僅台灣如此"},{"start":8644.82,"end":8647.82,"text":"其他世界大部分的國家都如此"},{"start":8647.82,"end":8649.82,"text":"除非是那個比較開發中的國家"},{"start":8649.82,"end":8651.82,"text":"所以我們就提出了"},{"start":8652.79,"end":8654.79,"text":"人口對策新戰略"},{"start":8654.79,"end":8656.79,"text":"這是總統所提出的人口對策新戰略"},{"start":8656.79,"end":8659.79,"text":"希望從不僅從生育而已"},{"start":8659.79,"end":8662.79,"text":"從托育 從教育 從居住"},{"start":8663.05,"end":8665.05,"text":"職場都全面來調整"},{"start":8665.05,"end":8666.05,"text":"讓大家能夠運一身"},{"start":8666.05,"end":8668.05,"text":"那國防也是如此"},{"start":8668.05,"end":8670.05,"text":"大家也知道現在一般的工程"},{"start":8670.05,"end":8672.05,"text":"金額都往下再加"},{"start":8672.05,"end":8676.05,"text":"況且是軍工的這個採購"},{"start":8676.05,"end":8679.05,"text":"那我們採購的因為精密的先進的這些武器"},{"start":8679.05,"end":8681.05,"text":"當然要付出更多的"},{"start":8681.05,"end":8683.05,"text":"現在我們的科技成長又這麼快"},{"start":8683.05,"end":8686.05,"text":"每一座經營場起來都是數百億數千億的這樣的投資"},{"start":8686.05,"end":8689.05,"text":"那為了政府可以提供更多的"},{"start":8689.05,"end":8691.05,"text":"工業區 科學園區 產業園區"},{"start":8691.05,"end":8693.05,"text":"我們必須說更多的土地的開發"},{"start":8693.05,"end":8697.05,"text":"土地的取得跟開發成本都遠遠超過以前"},{"start":8697.05,"end":8699.05,"text":"那現在我們又對中小微企業"},{"start":8699.05,"end":8701.05,"text":"又對治水"},{"start":8701.05,"end":8703.05,"text":"要全面來做更多的投入"},{"start":8703.05,"end":8705.05,"text":"四年治水一千億"},{"start":8705.05,"end":8708.05,"text":"八年中小微加碼一千億"},{"start":8708.05,"end":8710.05,"text":"這個都是過去所沒有的"},{"start":8710.05,"end":8712.05,"text":"所以很希望委員能夠支持政府"},{"start":8712.05,"end":8713.05,"text":"是在這個環境底下"},{"start":8713.05,"end":8715.05,"text":"要做好基礎建設"},{"start":8715.05,"end":8716.05,"text":"做好發展"},{"start":8716.05,"end":8717.05,"text":"保護國家"},{"start":8717.05,"end":8718.05,"text":"要照顧到人民"},{"start":8718.05,"end":8720.05,"text":"又要顧慮到人口對策的新戰略"},{"start":8720.05,"end":8722.05,"text":"這個是全面性的一個規劃"},{"start":8722.05,"end":8723.05,"text":"院長"},{"start":8723.05,"end":8726.05,"text":"這些問題我們都知道它確實存在"},{"start":8726.05,"end":8728.05,"text":"可是因為我們每年編的預算"},{"start":8728.05,"end":8730.05,"text":"我們必須要看到它的成果"},{"start":8730.05,"end":8732.05,"text":"今天會講到超編 浮編"},{"start":8732.05,"end":8735.05,"text":"我們先把這個定義把它講清楚"},{"start":8735.05,"end":8736.05,"text":"因為不是預算大"},{"start":8736.05,"end":8737.05,"text":"它就叫浮編"},{"start":8737.05,"end":8740.05,"text":"如果說我們國防需要增加"},{"start":8740.05,"end":8741.05,"text":"那就編"},{"start":8741.05,"end":8743.05,"text":"如果我們的老人變多"},{"start":8743.05,"end":8744.05,"text":"長照需要增加"},{"start":8744.05,"end":8746.05,"text":"那也應該編"},{"start":8746.05,"end":8748.05,"text":"該照顧人民的錢本來就應該花"},{"start":8748.05,"end":8750.05,"text":"可是我們現在要探討的是"},{"start":8750.05,"end":8752.05,"text":"當我們增加這麼多的預算的時候"},{"start":8752.05,"end":8754.05,"text":"它的成果到底是什麼"},{"start":8754.05,"end":8756.05,"text":"我們現在可以來看"},{"start":8756.05,"end":8758.05,"text":"簡單的看一下"},{"start":8758.05,"end":8760.05,"text":"因為我們這一次"},{"start":8760.05,"end":8763.05,"text":"在追加預算裡面"},{"start":8763.05,"end":8766.05,"text":"我們看到這個一千國防的部分"},{"start":8766.05,"end":8768.05,"text":"一千四百五十幾億"},{"start":8768.05,"end":8769.05,"text":"將近一千五百億"},{"start":8769.05,"end":8774.05,"text":"這個裡面它其中有含了無人機的部分"},{"start":8774.05,"end":8776.05,"text":"一個就是濱海兼徵型無人機"},{"start":8776.05,"end":8779.05,"text":"還有濱海攻擊型無人機"},{"start":8779.05,"end":8782.05,"text":"另外還有一個小型自殺無人艇"},{"start":8783.05,"end":8787.05,"text":"這三個三項加起來總共五百五十九億"},{"start":8787.05,"end":8790.05,"text":"追加預算現在都已經十月了"},{"start":8790.05,"end":8794.05,"text":"你明年在我們剛通過的特別條例裡面"},{"start":8794.05,"end":8795.05,"text":"也有這三項"},{"start":8795.05,"end":8797.05,"text":"因為你們說要列進去"},{"start":8797.05,"end":8798.05,"text":"所以在那兩千"},{"start":8798.05,"end":8801.05,"text":"原來行政院只提了兩千一百億"},{"start":8801.05,"end":8804.05,"text":"在野黨甚至提高到兩千四百億"},{"start":8804.05,"end":8807.05,"text":"可是為什麼我們在追加預算"},{"start":8807.05,"end":8809.05,"text":"還要編這三個"},{"start":8809.56,"end":8813.56,"text":"這三項在追加預算占了五百五十九億"},{"start":8813.56,"end":8814.56,"text":"如果它那麼重要"},{"start":8814.56,"end":8817.56,"text":"你當時你在特別條例的時候"},{"start":8817.56,"end":8820.56,"text":"為什麼只有兩千一百億"},{"start":8820.56,"end":8823.56,"text":"你直接變成兩千七百億就好了"},{"start":8823.56,"end":8824.56,"text":"為什麼沒有編"},{"start":8824.56,"end":8826.56,"text":"你現在突然又用追加預算"},{"start":8826.56,"end":8829.56,"text":"聽到立法院不准編特別預算"},{"start":8829.56,"end":8831.56,"text":"院長你沒有聽清楚"},{"start":8831.56,"end":8833.56,"text":"你才剛通過特別條例"},{"start":8833.56,"end":8835.56,"text":"就是無人機的部分"},{"start":8835.56,"end":8838.56,"text":"無人機我們通過兩千四百億"},{"start":8839.48,"end":8842.48,"text":"裡面已經含了我剛剛講的這三行"},{"start":8842.48,"end":8843.48,"text":"對不對"},{"start":8843.48,"end":8844.48,"text":"你用年度預算"},{"start":8844.48,"end":8846.48,"text":"你那個是用年度預算"},{"start":8846.48,"end":8848.48,"text":"不是用特別預算"},{"start":8848.48,"end":8853.48,"text":"院長你剛自己提過通過的特別條例"},{"start":8853.48,"end":8856.48,"text":"顯然你並沒有進入狀況"},{"start":8856.48,"end":8858.48,"text":"在我們通過的條例裡面"},{"start":8858.48,"end":8860.48,"text":"部長說明我們這三項"},{"start":8860.48,"end":8862.48,"text":"我們沒有通過特別預算"},{"start":8862.48,"end":8863.48,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":8863.48,"end":8866.48,"text":"我們行政院版提出來的特別條例"},{"start":8866.48,"end":8868.48,"text":"立法院並沒有通過"},{"start":8868.48,"end":8870.48,"text":"我們現在通過的不是行政院版"},{"start":8870.48,"end":8871.48,"text":"我們通過的"},{"start":8871.48,"end":8872.48,"text":"所以您通過的是"},{"start":8872.48,"end":8877.48,"text":"你們 桂園通過的是年度預算"},{"start":8877.48,"end":8880.48,"text":"因為這跟委員稍微解釋一下"},{"start":8880.48,"end":8881.48,"text":"在通過的時候"},{"start":8881.48,"end":8886.48,"text":"我們在116年度的總預算已經編進"},{"start":8886.48,"end":8888.48,"text":"原來通過時間檢視"},{"start":8888.48,"end":8891.48,"text":"在我們總預算已經提出去之後"},{"start":8891.48,"end":8893.48,"text":"不准我們提出特別預算"},{"start":8893.48,"end":8896.48,"text":"因此不准我們提出特別預算的情況之下"},{"start":8896.48,"end":8899.48,"text":"我們只好用追加預算的方式"},{"start":8899.48,"end":8901.48,"text":"追加預算也是年度預算的一種"},{"start":8901.48,"end":8905.48,"text":"所以我們是按照桂園所通過的法例"},{"start":8905.48,"end":8907.48,"text":"我們來放在我們的年度預算"},{"start":8907.48,"end":8910.48,"text":"只是我們希望能夠加速的進行"},{"start":8910.48,"end":8911.48,"text":"因此我們放在追加預算"},{"start":8911.48,"end":8914.48,"text":"追加預算也是屬於年度預算"},{"start":8914.48,"end":8915.48,"text":"部長您說錯了"},{"start":8915.48,"end":8919.48,"text":"因為行政院自己就提出了2100億"},{"start":8919.48,"end":8920.48,"text":"我要再強調一次"},{"start":8920.48,"end":8922.48,"text":"你們也提出了2100億"},{"start":8922.48,"end":8924.48,"text":"後來通過特別預算"},{"start":8924.48,"end":8926.48,"text":"特別預算希望放在年度預算"},{"start":8926.48,"end":8929.48,"text":"是在野黨提出的版本"},{"start":8929.48,"end":8932.48,"text":"可是當你們提出2100億的時候"},{"start":8932.48,"end":8936.48,"text":"並沒有把這兵海型跟兵海艦增型"},{"start":8936.48,"end":8937.48,"text":"兵海攻擊型"},{"start":8937.48,"end":8940.48,"text":"還有小型自殺無人艇放在那裡面"},{"start":8940.48,"end":8942.48,"text":"如果它那麼重要"},{"start":8942.48,"end":8946.48,"text":"你們在2100億裡面的特別條例的預算裡面"},{"start":8946.48,"end":8947.48,"text":"就會提出來"},{"start":8947.48,"end":8950.48,"text":"我們2100億就是擺這幾型的"},{"start":8950.48,"end":8951.48,"text":"有啊"},{"start":8951.48,"end":8952.48,"text":"那我們擺了以後"},{"start":8952.48,"end":8955.48,"text":"後來立法院不是一直在討論嗎"},{"start":8955.48,"end":8956.48,"text":"討論的時間點"},{"start":8956.48,"end":8958.48,"text":"決定不通過的時間點"},{"start":8958.48,"end":8960.48,"text":"如果它已經在那裡面"},{"start":8960.48,"end":8962.48,"text":"如果部長很清楚"},{"start":8962.48,"end":8964.48,"text":"如果它已經在裡面"},{"start":8964.48,"end":8966.48,"text":"那你追加預算就不用再編了"},{"start":8966.48,"end":8968.48,"text":"因為你已經有這三型"},{"start":8968.48,"end":8972.48,"text":"而且明年的公佈預算裡面也有"},{"start":8972.48,"end":8973.48,"text":"這個我們在"},{"start":8973.48,"end":8974.48,"text":"委員您的時間上"},{"start":8974.48,"end":8976.48,"text":"我們可能要稍微排序一下"},{"start":8976.48,"end":8977.48,"text":"這整個的時間"},{"start":8978.49,"end":8980.49,"text":"本來這個特別條例當中"},{"start":8980.49,"end":8981.49,"text":"要編特別預算"},{"start":8981.49,"end":8983.49,"text":"結果大院通過的是"},{"start":8984.18,"end":8986.18,"text":"那個條例不叫特別條例"},{"start":8986.18,"end":8987.18,"text":"但是用年度預算"},{"start":8987.18,"end":8989.18,"text":"所以我們就沒有特別預算可以編"},{"start":8989.18,"end":8991.18,"text":"所以我們就把明年度"},{"start":8991.18,"end":8993.18,"text":"本來要編特別預算那部分"},{"start":8993.18,"end":8995.18,"text":"用追加預算編在今年"},{"start":8995.18,"end":8997.18,"text":"追加預算也是年度預算"},{"start":8997.18,"end":8998.18,"text":"部長的意思是如此"},{"start":8998.18,"end":9000.18,"text":"我們今年的預算什麼時候確定的"},{"start":9000.18,"end":9001.18,"text":"什麼時候送的"},{"start":9002.44,"end":9006.44,"text":"明年116年預算什麼時候送"},{"start":9006.44,"end":9007.44,"text":"8月底送的"},{"start":9007.44,"end":9008.44,"text":"8月底嘛"},{"start":9008.44,"end":9011.44,"text":"我們特別預算我們是什麼時候送"},{"start":9013.04,"end":9015.04,"text":"我們沒有特別預算"},{"start":9015.04,"end":9016.04,"text":"特別條例"},{"start":9016.04,"end":9017.04,"text":"如果你們要講這個"},{"start":9017.04,"end":9018.04,"text":"特別條例"},{"start":9018.04,"end":9021.04,"text":"我們特別條例一直在立法院審議當中"},{"start":9021.04,"end":9023.04,"text":"什麼時候送的"},{"start":9023.04,"end":9024.04,"text":"如果你們要說時間點"},{"start":9024.04,"end":9027.04,"text":"您講的是特別條例嗎"},{"start":9027.04,"end":9029.04,"text":"特別條例的"},{"start":9029.04,"end":9032.04,"text":"我們是在應該去年就已經提出來的特別條例"},{"start":9032.04,"end":9034.04,"text":"然後來就一直討論"},{"start":9034.04,"end":9036.04,"text":"那貴院也很多版本"},{"start":9036.04,"end":9038.04,"text":"然後來等到通過"},{"start":9038.04,"end":9042.04,"text":"去年的時候有沒有這三項"},{"start":9042.09,"end":9044.09,"text":"去年在特別條例裡面"},{"start":9044.09,"end":9046.09,"text":"有這幾款的無人機"},{"start":9046.09,"end":9047.09,"text":"跟無人艇"},{"start":9047.09,"end":9049.09,"text":"那我們就打算用"},{"start":9049.09,"end":9052.09,"text":"所以他們的需求你們早就知道了嘛"},{"start":9052.09,"end":9053.09,"text":"對不對"},{"start":9053.09,"end":9056.09,"text":"所以這559億如果追加預算沒有過"},{"start":9056.09,"end":9057.09,"text":"它到底重不重要"},{"start":9057.09,"end":9058.09,"text":"到底需不需要"},{"start":9058.09,"end":9062.09,"text":"因為你們在特別條例裡面已經通過了"},{"start":9062.09,"end":9066.09,"text":"我們沒有通過特別條例"},{"start":9066.09,"end":9069.09,"text":"我們沒有通過我們的特別條例"},{"start":9069.53,"end":9071.53,"text":"立法院通過的2400億"},{"start":9071.53,"end":9075.53,"text":"甚至比你們通過的2100億還要高"},{"start":9075.53,"end":9078.53,"text":"我們就是之前立法院的決議用年度預算"},{"start":9078.53,"end":9081.53,"text":"它的差別只在於放在年度預算或特別預算"},{"start":9081.53,"end":9084.53,"text":"可是它已經通過了2400億"},{"start":9084.53,"end":9087.53,"text":"再加上明年116年以後的年度"},{"start":9087.53,"end":9088.53,"text":"它每年有400億"},{"start":9088.53,"end":9090.53,"text":"你現在又追加預算裡面"},{"start":9090.53,"end":9093.53,"text":"把這三行等於一樣的東西"},{"start":9093.53,"end":9095.53,"text":"你在追加預算又放了559億"},{"start":9095.53,"end":9097.53,"text":"如果這個這麼重要"},{"start":9097.53,"end":9099.53,"text":"你在2100億以內"},{"start":9099.53,"end":9100.53,"text":"那時候就會放了"},{"start":9100.53,"end":9103.53,"text":"我們現在沒有時間跟你討論"},{"start":9103.53,"end":9104.53,"text":"我們先第一進一下"},{"start":9104.53,"end":9108.53,"text":"追加預算是年度預算"},{"start":9108.53,"end":9110.53,"text":"我們因為它的急迫性"},{"start":9110.53,"end":9113.53,"text":"因此我們用追加預算的方式遵循大院的警示"},{"start":9113.53,"end":9114.53,"text":"現在10月份"},{"start":9114.53,"end":9116.53,"text":"部長你告訴我現在10月份"},{"start":9116.53,"end":9117.53,"text":"已經10月了"},{"start":9117.53,"end":9119.53,"text":"追加預算如果通過以後"},{"start":9119.53,"end":9121.53,"text":"你再來買這三行"},{"start":9121.53,"end":9122.53,"text":"你說有急迫性"},{"start":9122.53,"end":9124.53,"text":"如果它那麼急迫"},{"start":9124.53,"end":9127.53,"text":"你之前放在特別條例裡面"},{"start":9127.53,"end":9129.53,"text":"2100億就應該要放了"},{"start":9129.53,"end":9130.53,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":9130.53,"end":9132.53,"text":"第二點如果它那麼急迫"},{"start":9132.53,"end":9134.53,"text":"你現在都已經接近年底"},{"start":9134.53,"end":9136.53,"text":"你即時完成採購"},{"start":9136.53,"end":9139.53,"text":"廠商也不可能1月1號就交給你"},{"start":9139.53,"end":9142.53,"text":"所以不要拿這樣子的一個說辭"},{"start":9142.53,"end":9144.53,"text":"來把所有的預算"},{"start":9144.53,"end":9147.53,"text":"你全部都搞亂了"},{"start":9147.53,"end":9149.53,"text":"你有特別的預算"},{"start":9149.53,"end":9151.53,"text":"你有我們的年度預算"},{"start":9151.53,"end":9153.53,"text":"另外還有一筆"},{"start":9153.53,"end":9156.53,"text":"現在的追加預算都已經10月了"},{"start":9156.53,"end":9158.53,"text":"你什麼時候要執行"},{"start":9158.53,"end":9161.53,"text":"你為什麼追加預算是這個時候送出來"},{"start":9161.53,"end":9163.53,"text":"我們現在沒有很多的時間"},{"start":9163.53,"end":9165.53,"text":"116年度的年度預算"},{"start":9165.53,"end":9167.53,"text":"不及編列放進去這一個"},{"start":9167.53,"end":9168.53,"text":"不及編列"},{"start":9168.53,"end":9171.53,"text":"因為當時特別條例提出來"},{"start":9171.53,"end":9173.53,"text":"特別條例提出來"},{"start":9173.53,"end":9174.53,"text":"部長聽我講完"},{"start":9174.53,"end":9177.53,"text":"你在1.25兆已經有放進這個"},{"start":9177.53,"end":9179.53,"text":"結果你那時候沒有通過"},{"start":9179.53,"end":9183.53,"text":"通過你在今年的明年的年度預算裡面"},{"start":9183.53,"end":9184.53,"text":"你不及放進去"},{"start":9184.53,"end":9186.53,"text":"所以可見你認為是重要"},{"start":9186.53,"end":9190.53,"text":"你現在最重要的其實只是想要把錢放進去"},{"start":9190.53,"end":9191.53,"text":"不是委員2100億"},{"start":9191.53,"end":9194.53,"text":"國防自主無人載具當中就是編列這些"},{"start":9194.53,"end":9197.53,"text":"但是大院並沒有通過那個特別條例"},{"start":9197.53,"end":9198.53,"text":"國防自主無人載具的部分"},{"start":9198.53,"end":9201.53,"text":"我們在委員會審查預算的時候"},{"start":9201.53,"end":9203.53,"text":"還會再補一部的探討"},{"start":9203.53,"end":9205.53,"text":"國防自主無人載具的特別條例"},{"start":9205.53,"end":9207.53,"text":"你們通過了一個條例"},{"start":9207.53,"end":9208.53,"text":"那不叫特別條例"},{"start":9208.53,"end":9210.53,"text":"所以我們沒有辦法依據來編特別預算"},{"start":9211.98,"end":9213.98,"text":"一直要變年度預算"},{"start":9213.98,"end":9214.98,"text":"那為了明年來不及"},{"start":9214.98,"end":9216.98,"text":"我們就編今年的最佳預算"},{"start":9216.98,"end":9219.98,"text":"我們剛剛已經說過他們來不及的問題"},{"start":9219.98,"end":9222.98,"text":"現在我們在講到時候審查預算的時候"},{"start":9222.98,"end":9224.98,"text":"我們會一一的討論"},{"start":9224.98,"end":9225.98,"text":"那你花了這麼多的錢"},{"start":9225.98,"end":9227.98,"text":"到底買了什麼樣的東西"},{"start":9227.98,"end":9229.98,"text":"而且一次要到位"},{"start":9229.98,"end":9231.98,"text":"這個到時候可能還是必須要說清楚"},{"start":9231.98,"end":9235.98,"text":"因為在接下來我舉幾個例子"},{"start":9235.98,"end":9237.98,"text":"就針對我們在預算部分"},{"start":9237.98,"end":9240.98,"text":"他所編列的一些狀況"},{"start":9240.98,"end":9241.98,"text":"我們在最佳預算裡面"},{"start":9241.98,"end":9245.98,"text":"除了剛剛我說的那三型無人載具以外"},{"start":9245.98,"end":9248.98,"text":"另外還有一個機動阻絕器材"},{"start":9248.98,"end":9249.98,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":9250.94,"end":9254.94,"text":"我們可能有在軍事上面的需求"},{"start":9254.94,"end":9256.94,"text":"可是我們要看的是"},{"start":9256.94,"end":9259.94,"text":"這個部分同樣叫做機動阻絕器材"},{"start":9259.94,"end":9264.94,"text":"我們在最佳預算的時候編了22億"},{"start":9266.06,"end":9268.06,"text":"9264萬"},{"start":9268.06,"end":9270.06,"text":"你說機動阻絕器材"},{"start":9270.06,"end":9274.06,"text":"我們在115年的最佳預算是編了43萬8千元"},{"start":9275.16,"end":9276.16,"text":"那就更可笑了"},{"start":9276.99,"end":9278.99,"text":"你總經費22億"},{"start":9278.99,"end":9280.99,"text":"我本來後面給他討論"},{"start":9280.99,"end":9282.99,"text":"機動阻絕器材的總經費沒有到22億"},{"start":9282.99,"end":9285.99,"text":"有你自己看一下你們編的預算"},{"start":9285.99,"end":9292.99,"text":"這一家預算清清楚楚的表格寫了22億9千多萬"},{"start":9292.99,"end":9294.99,"text":"今年第一年45萬"},{"start":9294.99,"end":9297.99,"text":"這個才是他詭譎的地方"},{"start":9297.99,"end":9302.99,"text":"你全案要22億9等於23億"},{"start":9302.99,"end":9304.99,"text":"可是你今年第一年"},{"start":9304.99,"end":9306.99,"text":"你才用45億"},{"start":9306.99,"end":9309.99,"text":"等於你頭過心就過"},{"start":9309.99,"end":9310.99,"text":"45億一旦過了"},{"start":9310.99,"end":9312.99,"text":"然後交給他過了以後就"},{"start":9312.99,"end":9316.99,"text":"跟委員報告說連日預算都是分開來審"},{"start":9316.99,"end":9318.99,"text":"最佳預算跟年度預算都是每年"},{"start":9318.99,"end":9320.99,"text":"然後也是分開來審"},{"start":9320.99,"end":9322.99,"text":"部長他是全案"},{"start":9322.99,"end":9323.99,"text":"你已經當了那麼多年了"},{"start":9323.99,"end":9324.99,"text":"部長我相信你很清楚"},{"start":9324.99,"end":9325.99,"text":"我現在講的"},{"start":9325.99,"end":9328.99,"text":"我們先來探討的這個部分是說"},{"start":9328.99,"end":9330.99,"text":"你在預算編列上面"},{"start":9330.99,"end":9332.99,"text":"是不是有浮編超編"},{"start":9332.99,"end":9335.99,"text":"剛剛這個機動主角器材"},{"start":9335.99,"end":9338.99,"text":"我們在作家預算編了23億"},{"start":9339.75,"end":9343.75,"text":"要買356套"},{"start":9345,"end":9348,"text":"美軍一樣他們也有機動主角器材"},{"start":9349.03,"end":9353.03,"text":"他們是國防後勤局DLA公開的售價"},{"start":9353.03,"end":9357.03,"text":"他們一套大概是台幣180萬左右"},{"start":9358.48,"end":9359.48,"text":"我們"},{"start":9359.95,"end":9361.95,"text":"編列的預算一套"},{"start":9362.74,"end":9364.74,"text":"大概要644萬"},{"start":9365.4,"end":9370.4,"text":"我們等於是美軍的幾乎四倍的價格"},{"start":9370.87,"end":9373.87,"text":"也就是我們編了23億的金額"},{"start":9373.87,"end":9375.87,"text":"美軍只要不到5億元"},{"start":9375.87,"end":9378.87,"text":"就可以買到這樣子的一個套數主數"},{"start":9378.87,"end":9380.87,"text":"甚至美國這是後勤局"},{"start":9380.87,"end":9385.87,"text":"他們自己軍規的這樣子的一個成熟的產品"},{"start":9385.87,"end":9386.87,"text":"所以我們在講"},{"start":9386.87,"end":9388.87,"text":"這個是第一個例子"},{"start":9388.87,"end":9392.87,"text":"跟委員報告您講的那個20幾億的這個金額"},{"start":9392.87,"end":9393.87,"text":"我印象當中"},{"start":9393.87,"end":9394.87,"text":"我可能要回去確認一下"},{"start":9394.87,"end":9397.87,"text":"並不是全案有這麼多的金額"},{"start":9397.87,"end":9398.87,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":9398.87,"end":9399.87,"text":"第二點"},{"start":9399.87,"end":9402.87,"text":"2015年追加預算的編列是辦理先期準備"},{"start":9402.87,"end":9403.87,"text":"同樣的狀況"},{"start":9403.87,"end":9407.87,"text":"機動主角器材在我們116年的年度預算也有編列"},{"start":9407.87,"end":9410.87,"text":"相關編列的這個實際的情況"},{"start":9410.87,"end":9413.87,"text":"我下去再查明這個相關的金額"},{"start":9413.87,"end":9414.87,"text":"以後再跟委員報告"},{"start":9414.87,"end":9419.87,"text":"但是委員不要隨便用湖邊濫編這個話來說明"},{"start":9419.87,"end":9421.87,"text":"那已經是湖邊超編"},{"start":9422.34,"end":9424.34,"text":"為什麼舉這個例子"},{"start":9424.34,"end":9427.34,"text":"我們之前剛通過的那個特別預算"},{"start":9427.34,"end":9430.34,"text":"我們放在普發1萬塊"},{"start":9430.34,"end":9434.34,"text":"就前年的通過的那去年初把還是全年底"},{"start":9434.34,"end":9436.34,"text":"就是我們說戰備水"},{"start":9436.34,"end":9439.34,"text":"你從8塊變120塊一樣的意思"},{"start":9439.34,"end":9441.34,"text":"我們現在說你可以買"},{"start":9442.27,"end":9445.27,"text":"它如果是必要的你可以買"},{"start":9445.27,"end":9448.27,"text":"我現在已經把美軍它的金額"},{"start":9448.27,"end":9450.27,"text":"已經公開的告訴你了"},{"start":9450.27,"end":9452.27,"text":"美國這是後勤局他們公開的"},{"start":9454.5,"end":9455.5,"text":"他們採購的金額"},{"start":9455.5,"end":9457.5,"text":"他一套就是180萬左右"},{"start":9457.5,"end":9458.5,"text":"而且還是軍規的"},{"start":9458.5,"end":9461.5,"text":"我們現在一套644元"},{"start":9461.5,"end":9463.5,"text":"你可以分批買那不重要"},{"start":9463.5,"end":9466.5,"text":"可是你第一年45萬的招標"},{"start":9466.5,"end":9468.5,"text":"下作業費如果下去以後"},{"start":9468.5,"end":9471.5,"text":"後面就是22億23億"},{"start":9471.5,"end":9473.5,"text":"我們現在要講的是這個"},{"start":9473.5,"end":9475.5,"text":"你在前端如果沒有掌控好"},{"start":9475.5,"end":9479.5,"text":"你後端比別人多出好幾倍去買一樣的東西"},{"start":9479.5,"end":9481.5,"text":"而且他還不見得那麼好"},{"start":9481.5,"end":9482.5,"text":"這是第一個例子"},{"start":9482.5,"end":9486.5,"text":"第二個我們還有一個在總計算裡面"},{"start":9486.5,"end":9491.5,"text":"海軍新型救難艦當年全案的計畫經費"},{"start":9491.5,"end":9493.5,"text":"一艘就是36.58億"},{"start":9495.69,"end":9497.69,"text":"當時國會已經追問說"},{"start":9497.69,"end":9499.69,"text":"為什麼要花那麼多的錢"},{"start":9499.69,"end":9502.69,"text":"因為你不能只造一艘大型的拖船"},{"start":9502.69,"end":9505.69,"text":"把真正的水下救援能力也應該做進去"},{"start":9505.69,"end":9507.69,"text":"因為那時候我們要發展潛艦"},{"start":9507.69,"end":9511.69,"text":"所以後來首艦也確實納入了100公尺的潛水中"},{"start":9511.69,"end":9513.69,"text":"還有500公尺水下ROV"},{"start":9514.81,"end":9516.81,"text":"這個價格都是可以比較的"},{"start":9516.81,"end":9521.81,"text":"美軍現在5000噸級的拖帶打撈救難艦"},{"start":9521.81,"end":9524.81,"text":"他公開造價大概新台幣20億"},{"start":9525.93,"end":9530.93,"text":"我們的3250噸比美軍的5000噸還要小"},{"start":9530.93,"end":9533.93,"text":"可是我們全案是36.58億"},{"start":9533.93,"end":9536.93,"text":"這是首見我們已經完成了"},{"start":9536.93,"end":9540.93,"text":"可是我們在明年編的預算一艘變成多少錢"},{"start":9540.93,"end":9541.93,"text":"你們知道嗎"},{"start":9541.93,"end":9543.93,"text":"105.81億"},{"start":9545.63,"end":9549.63,"text":"要造兩艘變成211.62億"},{"start":9550.18,"end":9555.18,"text":"平均一艘我們原來第一艘已經比美國的還要貴了"},{"start":9555.18,"end":9558.18,"text":"可是我們現在第二艘跟第三艘"},{"start":9558.18,"end":9560.18,"text":"我們平均"},{"start":9560.61,"end":9563.61,"text":"造價比我們原來的高出2.89倍"},{"start":9565.51,"end":9567.51,"text":"每一艘多了69億"},{"start":9567.51,"end":9568.51,"text":"他到底增加什麼"},{"start":9568.51,"end":9571.51,"text":"我們現在為什麼要特別出來說"},{"start":9571.51,"end":9573.51,"text":"我們有浮邊的狀況"},{"start":9573.51,"end":9574.51,"text":"超邊的狀況"},{"start":9574.51,"end":9579.51,"text":"就是因為你原來的船30幾億就已經比別人高"},{"start":9579.51,"end":9582.51,"text":"那你現在每兩艘變到一艘變成100多億"},{"start":9582.51,"end":9584.51,"text":"這樣要怎麼說明"},{"start":9585.5,"end":9586.5,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":9586.5,"end":9588.5,"text":"我想你現在提出來的資料"},{"start":9588.5,"end":9591.5,"text":"因為我手上沒有現成的資料可以回應"},{"start":9591.5,"end":9593.5,"text":"但是我們相關的建案的計畫"},{"start":9593.5,"end":9598.5,"text":"你也都知道我們從這個需求到這個細分的時候"},{"start":9598.5,"end":9602.5,"text":"我們都會做這個成本會做相關的一些分析"},{"start":9602.5,"end":9604.5,"text":"那我們出來之後"},{"start":9604.5,"end":9606.5,"text":"如果委員有疑議"},{"start":9606.5,"end":9609.5,"text":"我們會找時間跟委員做一個進一步的一個說明"},{"start":9609.5,"end":9612.5,"text":"但如果說現在委員在院會上面"},{"start":9612.5,"end":9615.5,"text":"你提出這樣的一個金額"},{"start":9615.5,"end":9617.5,"text":"我現在在現場上沒有辦法做核實"},{"start":9617.5,"end":9621.5,"text":"然後就一家人去指控說浮邊如何等等"},{"start":9621.5,"end":9627.5,"text":"我覺得這樣的一個質詢的方式是不公平的"},{"start":9627.5,"end":9628.5,"text":"那個不是不公平"},{"start":9628.5,"end":9630.5,"text":"因為我們已經有查了"},{"start":9630.5,"end":9634.5,"text":"他當時是因為為什麼一直在增加後面的預算"},{"start":9634.5,"end":9639.5,"text":"他兩艘變成增加了3.5倍以上"},{"start":9639.5,"end":9640.5,"text":"3.5倍"},{"start":9641.14,"end":9642.14,"text":"你就造船而已"},{"start":9642.14,"end":9645.14,"text":"我們今天就說他是可以比較的"},{"start":9645.14,"end":9646.14,"text":"如果你做得再好"},{"start":9646.14,"end":9649.14,"text":"你甚至都可以比美軍的還要好"},{"start":9649.14,"end":9650.14,"text":"那你說你增加那麼多"},{"start":9650.14,"end":9651.14,"text":"委員是有疑似"},{"start":9651.14,"end":9652.14,"text":"我們增加的理由"},{"start":9652.14,"end":9654.14,"text":"院長你先聽我講完"},{"start":9654.14,"end":9656.14,"text":"我們當時增加這麼多的預算"},{"start":9656.14,"end":9659.14,"text":"只有一個很重要的理由"},{"start":9659.14,"end":9660.14,"text":"沒有人來標"},{"start":9660.14,"end":9664.14,"text":"所以這個部分部長如果覺得說你還有要說明的機會"},{"start":9664.14,"end":9665.14,"text":"你到時候可以說"},{"start":9665.14,"end":9667.14,"text":"因為這是我們看到的預算"},{"start":9667.14,"end":9669.14,"text":"他增加幅度非常高"},{"start":9669.14,"end":9671.14,"text":"然後我們覺得不合理的部分"},{"start":9671.14,"end":9673.14,"text":"所以我今天特別提出來"},{"start":9673.14,"end":9677.14,"text":"所以我們就整體的數字再請部長跟委員來做"},{"start":9677.14,"end":9680.14,"text":"我想到時候委員會審查"},{"start":9680.14,"end":9683.14,"text":"委員都有很多的機會"},{"start":9683.14,"end":9685.14,"text":"我們一定會跟委員做一個說明"},{"start":9685.14,"end":9687.14,"text":"一方面也說明這個新照件"},{"start":9687.14,"end":9690.14,"text":"他本身內容配備維護條件等等"},{"start":9690.14,"end":9692.14,"text":"或許容許有不同"},{"start":9692.14,"end":9694.14,"text":"這個再請部長能夠詳細說明"},{"start":9694.14,"end":9696.14,"text":"這個部分你們後續可以說明"},{"start":9696.14,"end":9698.14,"text":"因為我是先提出來"},{"start":9698.14,"end":9699.14,"text":"我"},{"start":9699.97,"end":9703.97,"text":"我們還要討論的主要是因為今天是總預算"},{"start":9703.97,"end":9705.97,"text":"可是國防預算為什麼特別提出來"},{"start":9705.97,"end":9708.97,"text":"我只是簡單舉兩個例子"},{"start":9708.97,"end":9710.97,"text":"他後面還有非常的多"},{"start":9710.97,"end":9712.97,"text":"在委員會我們會持續的討論"},{"start":9712.97,"end":9716.97,"text":"因為國防預算已經占了我們所有整體總預算"},{"start":9716.97,"end":9718.97,"text":"你只要花三塊四塊"},{"start":9718.97,"end":9720.97,"text":"就一塊是花在國防上面"},{"start":9720.97,"end":9722.97,"text":"所以我們希望他每一筆預算"},{"start":9722.97,"end":9724.97,"text":"其實都可以精準到位"},{"start":9724.97,"end":9726.97,"text":"真的可以增加我們的戰力"},{"start":9726.97,"end":9728.97,"text":"而且他不會被浪費掉"},{"start":9728.97,"end":9730.97,"text":"這是我們今天特別提出來"},{"start":9730.97,"end":9731.97,"text":"所以不只國防"},{"start":9731.97,"end":9735.97,"text":"我們現在提到剛剛我們一開始講的"},{"start":9735.97,"end":9737.97,"text":"少子化的預算"},{"start":9737.97,"end":9740.97,"text":"我們在預算如果單價變貴"},{"start":9740.97,"end":9742.97,"text":"其實更值得警惕的是"},{"start":9742.97,"end":9744.97,"text":"我們的錢每年增加"},{"start":9744.97,"end":9746.97,"text":"可是問題一直在惡化"},{"start":9746.97,"end":9748.97,"text":"剛剛院長提到的本席同意"},{"start":9748.97,"end":9750.97,"text":"就是在全球很多國家"},{"start":9750.97,"end":9752.97,"text":"其實都面臨少子化的問題"},{"start":9752.97,"end":9755.97,"text":"這個真的是一個重大的國安問題"},{"start":9755.97,"end":9757.97,"text":"大家也都在尋求解決的方案"},{"start":9757.97,"end":9760.97,"text":"可是我們自己也有自己解決的方案"},{"start":9760.97,"end":9761.97,"text":"因為我們有不同的國情"},{"start":9761.97,"end":9763.97,"text":"我們不同的整體的環境"},{"start":9763.97,"end":9765.97,"text":"那我們錢每年增加"},{"start":9765.97,"end":9767.97,"text":"116年度育兒相關津貼"},{"start":9767.97,"end":9770.97,"text":"已經編到2101億"},{"start":9770.97,"end":9775.97,"text":"114年度我們總生育率只有0.695"},{"start":9775.97,"end":9779.97,"text":"所以立法院預算中心他的評估也指出"},{"start":9779.97,"end":9781.97,"text":"就是相關的這個預算支出"},{"start":9781.97,"end":9784.97,"text":"其實沒有辦法提升我們的生育率"},{"start":9784.97,"end":9786.97,"text":"其實它效果是有限的"},{"start":9786.97,"end":9788.97,"text":"我們要探討的是"},{"start":9788.97,"end":9791.97,"text":"我們這樣編列相關的2000多億的預算"},{"start":9791.97,"end":9794.97,"text":"我們是想要買什麼樣的政策成果"},{"start":9794.97,"end":9796.97,"text":"因為不是說我們錢越編越高"},{"start":9796.97,"end":9798.97,"text":"然後補助越來越多就好了"},{"start":9798.97,"end":9800.97,"text":"就像我們如果人生病了"},{"start":9803.21,"end":9805.21,"text":"吃了多年的藥"},{"start":9805.21,"end":9808.21,"text":"然後狀況病狀還在惡化當中"},{"start":9808.21,"end":9811.21,"text":"醫生不能告訴我們說你劑量再增加就好"},{"start":9811.21,"end":9816.21,"text":"我們要的是他真的是不是可以去解決我們的病症"},{"start":9816.21,"end":9818.21,"text":"少子化也是"},{"start":9818.21,"end":9819.21,"text":"它已經形成國安的問題"},{"start":9819.21,"end":9822.21,"text":"因為少子化變成我們的警察消防"},{"start":9822.21,"end":9824.21,"text":"我們的老師我們的醫護人員"},{"start":9824.21,"end":9826.21,"text":"我們的勞工我們的農民"},{"start":9826.21,"end":9830.21,"text":"我們的就是年輕化的這一些部分"},{"start":9830.21,"end":9833.21,"text":"還有包括我們的軍人什麼都缺"},{"start":9833.21,"end":9836.21,"text":"其實它已經造成我們很大的國安的疑慮"},{"start":9836.21,"end":9840.21,"text":"所以我們才希望說我們編列預算我們可以支持"},{"start":9840.21,"end":9843.21,"text":"我們也可以做更多的一些相關的補助"},{"start":9843.21,"end":9845.21,"text":"可是它必須要達到效果"},{"start":9845.21,"end":9847.21,"text":"如果我們這2000"},{"start":9847.98,"end":9849.98,"text":"100多億預算編列下去"},{"start":9849.98,"end":9852.98,"text":"我們明年很具體的一個問題"},{"start":9852.98,"end":9854.98,"text":"我們希望生育率可以達到多少"},{"start":9854.98,"end":9856.98,"text":"因為總是要有一個標準"},{"start":9856.98,"end":9859.98,"text":"你之前是0.68多"},{"start":9859.98,"end":9863.98,"text":"那是不是明年可以到0.75還是到0.8"},{"start":9863.98,"end":9865.98,"text":"這個部分可能會減少"},{"start":9865.98,"end":9867.98,"text":"所以我們也謝謝委員剛剛一直提到"},{"start":9867.98,"end":9870.98,"text":"國防也好這個少子化也好"},{"start":9870.98,"end":9872.98,"text":"我們需要的委員都會支持"},{"start":9872.98,"end":9873.98,"text":"我也希望爭取委員的支持"},{"start":9873.98,"end":9876.98,"text":"當我們在推出人口對策新戰略之後"},{"start":9876.98,"end":9880.98,"text":"提出了安心修養加碼教育強化托育"},{"start":9880.98,"end":9883.98,"text":"以及友善職場跟居住減壓"},{"start":9883.98,"end":9886.98,"text":"那我最近參加了好幾場的聯合婚禮"},{"start":9886.98,"end":9891.98,"text":"在我現在好幾場聯合婚禮對數都增加了"},{"start":9891.98,"end":9892.98,"text":"但是一年內"},{"start":9893.94,"end":9895.94,"text":"我們都沒有辦法看到成績"},{"start":9895.94,"end":9897.94,"text":"一定要一年以後甚至兩年以後"},{"start":9897.94,"end":9899.94,"text":"才這個成績才會出現"},{"start":9899.94,"end":9901.94,"text":"那這一年我們盡量鼓勵這個社會"},{"start":9901.94,"end":9903.94,"text":"結婚的氛圍能夠多一點"},{"start":9903.94,"end":9906.94,"text":"生小孩的大家的勇氣能夠大一點"},{"start":9906.94,"end":9909.94,"text":"那我們來支持這樣的月兒"},{"start":9909.94,"end":9911.94,"text":"今天相關的補助"},{"start":9911.94,"end":9914.94,"text":"你簡單的說一下明年希望達到的月兒"},{"start":9914.94,"end":9916.94,"text":"就是我們的生兒"},{"start":9916.94,"end":9919.94,"text":"就是我們的出生率可以達到多少"},{"start":9919.94,"end":9921.94,"text":"你是不是可以簡單的"},{"start":9921.94,"end":9923.94,"text":"可以有一個觸距"},{"start":9926.61,"end":9927.61,"text":"政策推出來"},{"start":9927.61,"end":9931.61,"text":"但是一年內會鼓勵原來不想生的趕快生"},{"start":9931.61,"end":9933.61,"text":"所以我們在訂這個目標的時候"},{"start":9933.61,"end":9936.61,"text":"我希望先止住不要再往下掉"},{"start":9936.61,"end":9939.61,"text":"第一年的目標先止住"},{"start":9939.61,"end":9941.61,"text":"現在剩下不要往下掉"},{"start":9941.61,"end":9943.61,"text":"以後再逐年慢慢慢慢的回升"},{"start":9943.61,"end":9946.61,"text":"所以如果說先止住"},{"start":9946.61,"end":9947.61,"text":"今年如果沒有辦法止住呢"},{"start":9949.14,"end":9952.14,"text":"那我們就來檢討這個政策哪裡還不足"},{"start":9952.14,"end":9954.14,"text":"或者執行上是不是有缺漏"},{"start":9954.14,"end":9956.14,"text":"因為我們旁邊的韓國"},{"start":9956.14,"end":9958.14,"text":"其實我們之前跟韓國"},{"start":9958.14,"end":9960.14,"text":"大概都是在末端的一二名"},{"start":9960.14,"end":9962.14,"text":"可是現在我們看到"},{"start":9962.14,"end":9964.14,"text":"其實他有一些已經有具體的成效了"},{"start":9964.14,"end":9968.14,"text":"如果說我們相關的這些可以去取經"},{"start":9968.14,"end":9970.14,"text":"我覺得對我們可能還是有好處"},{"start":9970.14,"end":9971.14,"text":"我們也有借鏡"},{"start":9971.14,"end":9973.14,"text":"包括韓國鄰近國家的經驗"},{"start":9973.14,"end":9975.14,"text":"我們都有拿來參考"},{"start":9975.14,"end":9977.14,"text":"才推出這個人口對策新戰略"},{"start":9977.14,"end":9978.14,"text":"家庭支持"},{"start":9978.14,"end":9980.14,"text":"院長因為其實可能還有很多"},{"start":9980.14,"end":9981.14,"text":"包括我們的公共建設"},{"start":9981.14,"end":9983.14,"text":"因為我們公共建設也增加"},{"start":9983.14,"end":9985.14,"text":"明年也增加了500多億"},{"start":9985.14,"end":9988.14,"text":"應該是有500多億的預算吧"},{"start":9988.14,"end":9990.14,"text":"然後可是我們在"},{"start":9992.63,"end":9996.63,"text":"也發現我們有很多的閒置空間"},{"start":9996.63,"end":9998.63,"text":"有的人你甚至把閒置空間花錢"},{"start":9998.63,"end":10000.63,"text":"去把它活化"},{"start":10000.63,"end":10002.63,"text":"活化以後他又閒置了"},{"start":10002.63,"end":10004.63,"text":"所以這個也是一個很重要的問題"},{"start":10004.63,"end":10006.63,"text":"今天我們探討這些我們總預算裡面"},{"start":10006.63,"end":10008.63,"text":"增加這麼高的預算"},{"start":10008.63,"end":10012.63,"text":"有增加這麼多的將近4兆"},{"start":10012.63,"end":10017.63,"text":"我們希望這個幾乎翻倍的總預算"},{"start":10017.63,"end":10018.63,"text":"我們希望"},{"start":10019.09,"end":10021.09,"text":"台灣其實經濟也變大"},{"start":10021.09,"end":10022.09,"text":"政府的責任也變多"},{"start":10022.09,"end":10025.09,"text":"預算增加本來就有合理的部分"},{"start":10025.09,"end":10029.09,"text":"可是我們只是要替人民多補後半句"},{"start":10029.09,"end":10032.09,"text":"就是國力不能只看政府花多少錢"},{"start":10032.09,"end":10033.09,"text":"包括我們的戰力"},{"start":10033.09,"end":10035.09,"text":"因為還要看同樣的問題"},{"start":10035.09,"end":10038.09,"text":"是不是需要越來越少的錢才能解決"},{"start":10038.09,"end":10040.09,"text":"我們剛剛講的這些問題"},{"start":10040.09,"end":10044.09,"text":"其實都是非常迫切需要去改善"},{"start":10044.09,"end":10045.09,"text":"或者需要去調整"},{"start":10045.09,"end":10049.09,"text":"或者急需我們的戰力的去重新"},{"start":10049.09,"end":10051.09,"text":"戰力的部分"},{"start":10051.09,"end":10052.09,"text":"我們在公建計畫"},{"start":10052.09,"end":10053.09,"text":"治水中小圍的補助"},{"start":10053.09,"end":10054.09,"text":"科技發展"},{"start":10054.09,"end":10055.09,"text":"國防經費"},{"start":10055.09,"end":10056.09,"text":"社福經費"},{"start":10056.09,"end":10057.09,"text":"勞保健保的補助"},{"start":10057.09,"end":10059.09,"text":"八大社福的補貼"},{"start":10081.29,"end":10082.29,"text":"好 謝謝馬委員"},{"start":10082.29,"end":10083.29,"text":"謝謝卓院長"},{"start":10085.75,"end":10088.75,"text":"現在為我們請王安祥委員諮詢"},{"start":10102.01,"end":10104.01,"text":"主席好 有請卓院長"},{"start":10105.17,"end":10107.17,"text":"好 請卓院長備行"},{"start":10113.57,"end":10114.57,"text":"黃偉好 早"},{"start":10115.06,"end":10117.06,"text":"從去年開始"},{"start":10117.06,"end":10119.06,"text":"我想對美關稅這件事情"},{"start":10119.06,"end":10122.06,"text":"其實就受到全世界的一個矚目"},{"start":10122.06,"end":10127.06,"text":"我們這邊基本上也在今年初"},{"start":10127.06,"end":10130.06,"text":"我們初步跟美國達成了一些"},{"start":10130.06,"end":10132.06,"text":"關稅談判的成果"},{"start":10132.06,"end":10133.06,"text":"也是在那個時候"},{"start":10133.06,"end":10135.06,"text":"我們大概就看到了"},{"start":10135.06,"end":10138.06,"text":"我們初步跟美國的對等的貿易協定"},{"start":10138.06,"end":10142.06,"text":"跟一些投資的備忘錄MOU"},{"start":10142.06,"end":10143.06,"text":"不過因為後來"},{"start":10143.06,"end":10145.06,"text":"其實有一些轉變"},{"start":10145.06,"end":10146.06,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":10146.06,"end":10147.06,"text":"美國聯邦的最高法院"},{"start":10147.06,"end":10149.06,"text":"它有判定這個"},{"start":10149.5,"end":10152.5,"text":"這個IPA好像沒有授權給川普總統"},{"start":10152.5,"end":10153.5,"text":"做這件事情"},{"start":10153.5,"end":10154.5,"text":"所以我們最後"},{"start":10154.5,"end":10155.5,"text":"截至目前為止"},{"start":10155.5,"end":10158.5,"text":"最新最新的應該是301"},{"start":10158.5,"end":10160.5,"text":"就是我們大概是10%的關稅"},{"start":10160.5,"end":10161.5,"text":"然後不疊加"},{"start":10161.5,"end":10162.5,"text":"大概是最後的"},{"start":10162.5,"end":10164.5,"text":"目前的成果"},{"start":10164.5,"end":10166.5,"text":"那我想請問一下"},{"start":10166.5,"end":10167.5,"text":"就是我剛剛說的那個ART"},{"start":10167.5,"end":10169.5,"text":"或者是我們的MOU"},{"start":10169.5,"end":10171.5,"text":"因為那個時候有一些改變"},{"start":10171.5,"end":10172.5,"text":"所以現在正式的文本"},{"start":10172.5,"end":10173.5,"text":"立法院這邊也還沒有看到"},{"start":10173.5,"end":10175.5,"text":"不曉得目前的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":10175.5,"end":10177.5,"text":"是不是請院長跟我們大家說明一下"},{"start":10178.24,"end":10179.24,"text":"好 我們從去年"},{"start":10180.4,"end":10181.4,"text":"4月"},{"start":10182.29,"end":10185.29,"text":"每方引用這個IPA對我苛增"},{"start":10185.29,"end":10187.29,"text":"32%加MFM"},{"start":10187.29,"end":10188.29,"text":"這是一開始"},{"start":10188.5,"end":10189.5,"text":"拿到了"},{"start":10190.08,"end":10191.08,"text":"今年的年初"},{"start":10191.08,"end":10194.08,"text":"又跟我們就分別簽訂了MOU跟ART"},{"start":10194.08,"end":10197.08,"text":"這個也幾乎是一個比較確定的狀態"},{"start":10197.08,"end":10198.08,"text":"但是後來您知道了"},{"start":10198.08,"end":10199.08,"text":"美國現在因為最高法院"},{"start":10199.08,"end":10202.08,"text":"聯邦法院又在進行法律工具的轉換"},{"start":10202.08,"end":10204.08,"text":"那因此3月"},{"start":10204.08,"end":10205.08,"text":"美國又啟動了這個"},{"start":10205.08,"end":10207.08,"text":"強迫勞動貨物進口禁令"},{"start":10207.08,"end":10209.08,"text":"以及結構性才能過剩"},{"start":10209.08,"end":10210.08,"text":"這個301的調查"},{"start":10210.08,"end":10211.08,"text":"那目前呢"},{"start":10211.08,"end":10213.08,"text":"最新的是7月的時候"},{"start":10213.08,"end":10214.08,"text":"今年7月"},{"start":10214.08,"end":10216.08,"text":"進口強迫勞動的這個部分"},{"start":10216.08,"end":10217.08,"text":"301調查"},{"start":10217.08,"end":10219.08,"text":"我們是10%不疊加"},{"start":10219.08,"end":10221.08,"text":"不疊加MFM"},{"start":10221.08,"end":10223.08,"text":"但是結構性才能過剩"},{"start":10223.08,"end":10225.08,"text":"這個部分現在還沒有具體"},{"start":10225.08,"end":10226.08,"text":"最後"},{"start":10226.08,"end":10230.08,"text":"那我們就要等美方再跟我們進一步確認"},{"start":10230.08,"end":10231.08,"text":"不過我們希望"},{"start":10231.08,"end":10234.08,"text":"原來的ART所談論的內容"},{"start":10234.08,"end":10236.08,"text":"那是基於雙方一段時間談出來的"},{"start":10236.08,"end":10238.08,"text":"那我方的談判團隊"},{"start":10238.08,"end":10239.08,"text":"也非常的用力"},{"start":10239.08,"end":10241.08,"text":"在爭取我國各項的"},{"start":10241.08,"end":10243.08,"text":"國家的利益跟產業的利益"},{"start":10243.08,"end":10244.08,"text":"我們希望能夠確認"},{"start":10244.08,"end":10247.08,"text":"確保ART當中所談到的"},{"start":10247.08,"end":10251.08,"text":"對我方比較有利的優惠的待遇"},{"start":10251.08,"end":10253.08,"text":"那如果說ART確定之後"},{"start":10253.08,"end":10255.08,"text":"再加上美國最新的調查"},{"start":10255.08,"end":10258.08,"text":"最終出現一個最終版本的時候"},{"start":10258.08,"end":10259.08,"text":"這個MOU跟ART"},{"start":10259.08,"end":10261.08,"text":"我們會並送國會來做確認"},{"start":10261.08,"end":10263.08,"text":"好 那之所以會這樣問"},{"start":10263.08,"end":10265.08,"text":"因為等一下我的很多的問題"},{"start":10265.08,"end":10267.08,"text":"可能跟這個都會有關係"},{"start":10267.08,"end":10268.08,"text":"那第一個就是說"},{"start":10268.08,"end":10271.08,"text":"我們那時候有承諾美國的一些"},{"start":10271.08,"end":10272.08,"text":"貿易上的投資"},{"start":10272.08,"end":10273.08,"text":"就是2500億"},{"start":10273.08,"end":10276.08,"text":"加上我們的這個信保的部分2500億"},{"start":10276.08,"end":10278.08,"text":"不曉得目前我們"},{"start":10278.08,"end":10280.08,"text":"我今天也到了這個Auroma一下"},{"start":10280.08,"end":10281.08,"text":"那一趟"},{"start":10281.08,"end":10282.08,"text":"我也看到了這個"},{"start":10282.08,"end":10284.08,"text":"很多我們那個科技業的一個投資"},{"start":10284.08,"end":10286.08,"text":"不曉得現在這個2500億的狀況"},{"start":10286.08,"end":10288.08,"text":"是不是我們已經達標了"},{"start":10288.75,"end":10291.75,"text":"2500億主要是我們產業界自主的投資"},{"start":10291.75,"end":10292.75,"text":"大家也知道"},{"start":10292.75,"end":10295.75,"text":"我們國家的主要的旗艦公司"},{"start":10295.75,"end":10296.75,"text":"是投資的相當大"},{"start":10296.75,"end":10299.75,"text":"但這個也是它整個產業企業"},{"start":10299.75,"end":10301.75,"text":"全球佈局的一環"},{"start":10301.75,"end":10303.75,"text":"政府是站在協助支持"},{"start":10303.75,"end":10307.75,"text":"同時來希望它能夠在全球佈局成功的例子"},{"start":10307.75,"end":10308.75,"text":"那當然這個不夠"},{"start":10308.75,"end":10310.75,"text":"我們還有其他的協力廠商"},{"start":10310.75,"end":10311.75,"text":"或是供應鏈廠商"},{"start":10311.75,"end":10313.75,"text":"或其他的高科技廠商"},{"start":10313.75,"end":10316.75,"text":"也一併會在全球佈局的情況底下"},{"start":10316.75,"end":10318.75,"text":"做它的這個投資的策略"},{"start":10318.75,"end":10320.75,"text":"那這個是2500億的部分"},{"start":10320.75,"end":10322.75,"text":"那目前還在最最最近的最後的盤整"},{"start":10322.75,"end":10323.75,"text":"來請部長說明"},{"start":10323.75,"end":10325.75,"text":"我補充一下"},{"start":10325.75,"end":10326.75,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":10326.75,"end":10327.75,"text":"我補充一下就是說"},{"start":10328.56,"end":10330.56,"text":"台積電的部分它因為已經公佈了"},{"start":10331.72,"end":10333.72,"text":"2650億嘛"},{"start":10333.72,"end":10334.72,"text":"但是如果計算"},{"start":10334.72,"end":10337.72,"text":"川普上任以後大概有差不多2000億嘛"},{"start":10338.09,"end":10340.09,"text":"那我們持續的盤點"},{"start":10340.09,"end":10343.09,"text":"其他的包括AI server還有其他的部分"},{"start":10343.09,"end":10344.09,"text":"它有兩次的公佈"},{"start":10344.09,"end":10345.09,"text":"一次是351億"},{"start":10345.09,"end":10347.09,"text":"另外一次是200億"},{"start":10347.09,"end":10349.09,"text":"目前的狀況是這樣"},{"start":10349.09,"end":10351.09,"text":"我今年到Auroma"},{"start":10351.09,"end":10352.09,"text":"其實我也很感動"},{"start":10352.09,"end":10354.09,"text":"因為看到台灣投資"},{"start":10354.09,"end":10355.09,"text":"台灣人在Auroma"},{"start":10355.09,"end":10357.09,"text":"受到非常非常多的禮遇"},{"start":10357.09,"end":10360.09,"text":"我覺得這個真的是台灣之光"},{"start":10360.09,"end":10364.09,"text":"那我看到他們在大量投資"},{"start":10364.09,"end":10366.09,"text":"在那邊建廠的時候"},{"start":10366.09,"end":10367.09,"text":"其實我就有點擔心"},{"start":10367.09,"end":10368.09,"text":"因為前一陣子"},{"start":10368.09,"end":10369.09,"text":"大家應該知道"},{"start":10369.09,"end":10370.09,"text":"台灣的很多科技廠"},{"start":10370.09,"end":10372.09,"text":"目前在很多園區"},{"start":10372.09,"end":10374.09,"text":"在施作在蓋廠房的時候"},{"start":10374.09,"end":10375.09,"text":"其實發生非常多的"},{"start":10375.09,"end":10377.09,"text":"植栽的一些案件"},{"start":10377.09,"end":10379.09,"text":"那我想過去我們"},{"start":10379.09,"end":10380.09,"text":"還在一直在講說"},{"start":10380.09,"end":10382.09,"text":"可能是因為他的新建案"},{"start":10382.09,"end":10384.09,"text":"比較是營造的部分"},{"start":10384.09,"end":10385.09,"text":"不過前幾天"},{"start":10385.09,"end":10387.09,"text":"在這個南科的部分"},{"start":10387.09,"end":10389.09,"text":"其實發生一些植栽的案件"},{"start":10389.09,"end":10390.09,"text":"是屬於我們的科技廠"},{"start":10390.09,"end":10392.09,"text":"而且那個就是我們現在所謂的"},{"start":10392.09,"end":10393.09,"text":"這個"},{"start":10393.09,"end":10394.09,"text":"花鼓水"},{"start":10394.09,"end":10395.09,"text":"院長可能有聽過"},{"start":10395.09,"end":10397.09,"text":"我們在科技廠上非常擔心的"},{"start":10398.63,"end":10400.63,"text":"這個新柏山的這個部分"},{"start":10400.63,"end":10402.63,"text":"竟然是噴濺到這個"},{"start":10402.63,"end":10404.63,"text":"我們這個操作人員的身上"},{"start":10404.63,"end":10405.63,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":10405.63,"end":10407.63,"text":"我覺得這個這樣子的一個植栽的發生"},{"start":10407.63,"end":10408.63,"text":"其實就不應該了"},{"start":10408.63,"end":10410.63,"text":"那當然南科"},{"start":10410.63,"end":10413.63,"text":"基本上勞動部已經授權給這個"},{"start":10413.63,"end":10414.63,"text":"國科會"},{"start":10414.63,"end":10415.63,"text":"所以基本上"},{"start":10415.63,"end":10417.63,"text":"我是希望國會針對這個事情"},{"start":10417.63,"end":10419.63,"text":"還是要做一些好的調查"},{"start":10419.63,"end":10421.63,"text":"那個我們都一直三立五申"},{"start":10421.63,"end":10422.63,"text":"希望大家在操作的時候"},{"start":10422.63,"end":10424.63,"text":"能夠穿上這個防護衣"},{"start":10424.63,"end":10425.63,"text":"那也請這個院長"},{"start":10425.63,"end":10427.63,"text":"也督促一下"},{"start":10427.63,"end":10429.63,"text":"那我們一起把這個事情做好了"},{"start":10429.63,"end":10432.63,"text":"我們的科技業已經這個全世界知名"},{"start":10432.63,"end":10434.63,"text":"不要為了這些很簡單的操作"},{"start":10434.63,"end":10435.63,"text":"而讓大家覺得說"},{"start":10435.63,"end":10438.63,"text":"好像台灣對這個方面都不重視"},{"start":10438.63,"end":10440.63,"text":"好 我非常注重這個"},{"start":10440.63,"end":10442.63,"text":"職場的友善環境"},{"start":10442.63,"end":10443.63,"text":"所以對權益我們會"},{"start":10444.83,"end":10445.83,"text":"希望這個部會"},{"start":10445.83,"end":10446.83,"text":"經濟部也好 勞動部也好"},{"start":10446.83,"end":10447.83,"text":"我們共同來維護"},{"start":10447.83,"end":10448.83,"text":"是不是藉此"},{"start":10448.83,"end":10450.83,"text":"如果國會有初步調查的結果"},{"start":10450.83,"end":10451.83,"text":"可以提供我辦公室"},{"start":10451.83,"end":10453.83,"text":"做一下這個參考"},{"start":10455.11,"end":10456.11,"text":"好 感謝"},{"start":10456.11,"end":10457.11,"text":"另外有幾件事情"},{"start":10457.11,"end":10458.11,"text":"其實在Art裡面"},{"start":10458.11,"end":10459.11,"text":"提到非常多"},{"start":10459.11,"end":10461.11,"text":"有關我們勞動權益的部分"},{"start":10461.11,"end":10462.11,"text":"那當然這個"},{"start":10462.11,"end":10463.11,"text":"第一個事情就是說"},{"start":10463.11,"end":10465.11,"text":"因為我們那時候都有限定"},{"start":10465.11,"end":10467.11,"text":"有些是立刻會生效"},{"start":10467.11,"end":10469.11,"text":"有些是有一定的期限生效日"},{"start":10469.11,"end":10470.11,"text":"我不曉得現在"},{"start":10470.11,"end":10471.11,"text":"因為還沒有簽"},{"start":10471.11,"end":10473.11,"text":"所以基本上是不是現在的時間"},{"start":10473.11,"end":10474.11,"text":"還沒有開始起算"},{"start":10475.66,"end":10476.66,"text":"我們承諾的部分"},{"start":10476.66,"end":10478.66,"text":"的確是還沒有開始生效"},{"start":10478.66,"end":10480.66,"text":"但是有一些是"},{"start":10481.21,"end":10483.21,"text":"本來就一直在做的事情"},{"start":10483.21,"end":10485.21,"text":"比如說美方比較關心"},{"start":10485.21,"end":10486.21,"text":"強迫勞動的問題"},{"start":10486.21,"end":10488.21,"text":"那個部分本來我們就一直在"},{"start":10488.91,"end":10491.91,"text":"一直在往這個方向來做一些努力"},{"start":10493.01,"end":10495.01,"text":"對 因為裡面很多勞動的"},{"start":10495.01,"end":10496.01,"text":"當然部長上來"},{"start":10496.01,"end":10498.01,"text":"就是我希望已經可以開始做了"},{"start":10498.01,"end":10500.01,"text":"那第一個我要問的當然就是"},{"start":10500.01,"end":10501.01,"text":"這個國際上也很關注的"},{"start":10501.01,"end":10503.01,"text":"就是我們這個集體勞動的部分"},{"start":10503.01,"end":10505.01,"text":"就是有關於減少"},{"start":10505.01,"end":10508.01,"text":"這個我們成立公會的一個限制"},{"start":10508.01,"end":10510.01,"text":"這個很多勞團一直在做倡議"},{"start":10510.01,"end":10513.01,"text":"我們現在目前水台還是在30人"},{"start":10513.01,"end":10514.01,"text":"這個很多人在倡議"},{"start":10514.01,"end":10515.01,"text":"是不是我們可以做減少"},{"start":10515.01,"end":10517.01,"text":"部長對這一題的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":10518.34,"end":10520.34,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":10520.34,"end":10522.34,"text":"我知道委員其實一直很關心這部分"},{"start":10522.34,"end":10524.34,"text":"那我們在我們的Art裡面"},{"start":10524.34,"end":10526.34,"text":"其實現在簽訂的是"},{"start":10526.34,"end":10529.34,"text":"這個Art生效以後5年"},{"start":10529.34,"end":10533.34,"text":"那要來可能修改相關的法規"},{"start":10533.34,"end":10535.34,"text":"來實施來降低這些門檻"},{"start":10535.34,"end":10537.34,"text":"那當然以現在的狀況"},{"start":10537.34,"end":10542.34,"text":"我們其實是還在做一些各種方案"},{"start":10542.34,"end":10547.34,"text":"或者是也在收集一些相關的意見的評估"},{"start":10547.34,"end":10550.34,"text":"因為第一步可能也還是要來收集"},{"start":10550.34,"end":10552.34,"text":"不管是勞方、資方"},{"start":10552.34,"end":10556.34,"text":"甚至其實不同類型的公會"},{"start":10556.34,"end":10558.34,"text":"其實不同類型的公會"},{"start":10558.34,"end":10560.34,"text":"可能對這個議題也有不一樣都"},{"start":10560.34,"end":10562.34,"text":"不一定都一致性的看法"},{"start":10562.34,"end":10567.34,"text":"所以前期會先做各方收集意見的工作"},{"start":10567.34,"end":10571.34,"text":"那後面才是在做相關的可行性的評估"},{"start":10571.34,"end":10575.34,"text":"甚至做法上面各種不同的研擬"},{"start":10575.34,"end":10578.34,"text":"是,這個跟院長跟部長說明一下"},{"start":10578.34,"end":10580.34,"text":"就是在學界其實對這個事情"},{"start":10580.34,"end":10583.34,"text":"其實一直採我們大家希望比較開放的態度"},{"start":10583.34,"end":10586.34,"text":"不過目前因為考慮這個common mind之下"},{"start":10586.34,"end":10589.34,"text":"是很多的人提出大概10人左右"},{"start":10589.34,"end":10591.34,"text":"這樣的一個標準"},{"start":10591.34,"end":10594.34,"text":"不曉得院長或部長這邊有沒有什麼你們的看法"},{"start":10594.34,"end":10596.34,"text":"如果把30人降到10人的話"},{"start":10596.34,"end":10598.34,"text":"是不是比較可行"},{"start":10598.34,"end":10599.34,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":10599.34,"end":10601.34,"text":"第一個我想我們還是前期"},{"start":10601.34,"end":10604.34,"text":"因為有些公司比較大的公司"},{"start":10604.34,"end":10606.34,"text":"有些公司比較小的公司"},{"start":10606.34,"end":10609.34,"text":"那其實現在就我們知道"},{"start":10609.34,"end":10612.34,"text":"即便是勞工界,即便是公會界"},{"start":10612.34,"end":10616.34,"text":"對這個議題也有很多大家提出各種不同的意見的討論"},{"start":10616.34,"end":10622.34,"text":"所以我們目前還是先以收集意見為優先"},{"start":10622.34,"end":10625.34,"text":"那當然可能各方都可以提出他的想法"},{"start":10625.34,"end":10628.34,"text":"那大家就會需要來多對話"},{"start":10628.34,"end":10630.34,"text":"那也需要把各種的情境"},{"start":10630.34,"end":10632.34,"text":"跟各種的需求"},{"start":10632.34,"end":10634.34,"text":"那也包括可能也要顧及到"},{"start":10634.34,"end":10637.34,"text":"第一個我們當然顧及到勞工的權益"},{"start":10637.34,"end":10639.34,"text":"尤其是這是一個很重要的集體權"},{"start":10639.34,"end":10642.34,"text":"那第二個其實也包括我們在這個"},{"start":10643.89,"end":10646.89,"text":"相關的產業的發展裡面"},{"start":10646.89,"end":10650.89,"text":"怎麼樣子可以讓兼顧尤其是勞工的權益"},{"start":10650.89,"end":10652.89,"text":"那我覺得這部分大家"},{"start":10652.89,"end":10654.89,"text":"我覺得會需要一些比較重合心的思考"},{"start":10654.89,"end":10655.89,"text":"好,感謝部長"},{"start":10655.89,"end":10659.89,"text":"那另外我想這個已經是我們國勞的核心公約了"},{"start":10659.89,"end":10661.89,"text":"這個集體勞動的部分"},{"start":10661.89,"end":10663.89,"text":"那不曉得公部門的部分"},{"start":10663.89,"end":10664.89,"text":"不曉得院長這邊"},{"start":10664.89,"end":10668.89,"text":"因為過去消防弟兄他們長期主張他們要來主公會"},{"start":10668.89,"end":10670.89,"text":"對公部門公務人員的部分"},{"start":10670.89,"end":10672.89,"text":"是不是我們可以稍度的做一些開放"},{"start":10674.33,"end":10678.33,"text":"我們對公務人員的權益的保障"},{"start":10678.33,"end":10680.33,"text":"一直是跟政府是連在一起的"},{"start":10680.33,"end":10682.33,"text":"不過警消人員"},{"start":10682.33,"end":10685.33,"text":"他們跟一般公務人員在身分上"},{"start":10685.33,"end":10686.33,"text":"雖然都叫公務人員"},{"start":10686.33,"end":10689.33,"text":"但是在職務上是有所差別的"},{"start":10689.33,"end":10694.33,"text":"那我們先期是希望警消能朝向協會的方式"},{"start":10694.33,"end":10696.33,"text":"先來做這種協會的運作"},{"start":10696.33,"end":10699.33,"text":"同樣可以達到來保障他們的權益"},{"start":10699.33,"end":10701.33,"text":"爭取他們的權益這個功能來做"},{"start":10701.33,"end":10705.33,"text":"這重點不在於組織的名稱或組織的內容"},{"start":10705.33,"end":10708.33,"text":"重點在於政府有沒有要跟他們站在一起的決心"},{"start":10708.33,"end":10709.33,"text":"這個絕對是有的"},{"start":10709.33,"end":10710.33,"text":"是 院長了解啦"},{"start":10710.33,"end":10713.33,"text":"不過就我們來說公會跟協會"},{"start":10713.33,"end":10715.33,"text":"其實本質上還是有很大的差異"},{"start":10715.33,"end":10717.33,"text":"那就請院長透透幫忙"},{"start":10717.33,"end":10720.33,"text":"讓公務員他們我們可以簡進我們的決心"},{"start":10720.33,"end":10722.33,"text":"我們會把他們的權益列為很優先優先"},{"start":10722.33,"end":10723.33,"text":"因為這是國家發展"},{"start":10723.33,"end":10727.33,"text":"跟國家整個保護國家最重要的一股力量"},{"start":10727.33,"end":10730.33,"text":"那另外一個就是有關於漁工"},{"start":10730.33,"end":10731.33,"text":"就船員的部分"},{"start":10731.33,"end":10734.33,"text":"這個大概也是我們非常的重要的重點"},{"start":10734.33,"end":10736.33,"text":"這個我其實在質詢的時候"},{"start":10736.33,"end":10738.33,"text":"或者是那時候在審查預算的時候"},{"start":10738.33,"end":10740.33,"text":"提到非常非常多次"},{"start":10740.33,"end":10741.33,"text":"第一個就是"},{"start":10741.33,"end":10744.33,"text":"其實那時候在第一個就是C188"},{"start":10744.33,"end":10747.33,"text":"這個目前好像在行政院的部分"},{"start":10747.33,"end":10750.33,"text":"我上次也有拜託秘書長能夠"},{"start":10750.33,"end":10752.33,"text":"能夠在這個會期"},{"start":10752.33,"end":10754.33,"text":"看看有沒有可能"},{"start":10754.33,"end":10757.33,"text":"這個C188國內法化的部分"},{"start":10757.33,"end":10760.33,"text":"能夠送到這個立法院來"},{"start":10760.33,"end":10762.33,"text":"不曉得這個院長這邊"},{"start":10762.33,"end":10765.33,"text":"或者是部長這邊有沒有進一步的資訊"},{"start":10765.33,"end":10766.33,"text":"來 部長再說"},{"start":10766.33,"end":10769.33,"text":"我跟委員報告就是漁撈公約的部分"},{"start":10769.33,"end":10772.33,"text":"我們在今年的8月中旬"},{"start":10772.33,"end":10775.33,"text":"就已經跟院長報告過"},{"start":10775.33,"end":10778.33,"text":"然後內部的院內的整個的法案的審查"},{"start":10778.33,"end":10779.33,"text":"已經完成了"},{"start":10779.33,"end":10781.33,"text":"那現在就待院會通過以後"},{"start":10781.33,"end":10784.33,"text":"就會送到立法院來進行實質的審議"},{"start":10784.33,"end":10785.33,"text":"好 感謝"},{"start":10785.33,"end":10787.33,"text":"那當然對於這個漁獲的產品"},{"start":10787.33,"end":10788.33,"text":"原來漁獲的產品"},{"start":10788.33,"end":10790.33,"text":"當然過去就是在美國這個"},{"start":10790.33,"end":10792.33,"text":"搶不搶不搶的清單裡面"},{"start":10792.33,"end":10793.33,"text":"那我想也是"},{"start":10793.33,"end":10795.33,"text":"我們大家過去都做了很多努力"},{"start":10795.33,"end":10797.33,"text":"那因為他兩年一次"},{"start":10797.33,"end":10799.33,"text":"2026馬上要公布了"},{"start":10799.33,"end":10802.33,"text":"我想這個部長應該有這個資訊"},{"start":10802.33,"end":10804.33,"text":"不曉得今年對我們這個除名"},{"start":10804.33,"end":10806.33,"text":"有沒有什麼樣的信心"},{"start":10806.95,"end":10808.95,"text":"我想我們應該樂觀的看待這件事情"},{"start":10808.95,"end":10809.95,"text":"因為在過去幾年"},{"start":10809.95,"end":10812.95,"text":"我們針對漁獲人群的行動計畫裡面"},{"start":10812.95,"end":10815.95,"text":"針對漁工的相關的勞動條件"},{"start":10815.95,"end":10819.95,"text":"跟他的生活保障都已經盡量的去實施"},{"start":10819.95,"end":10821.95,"text":"那我們的努力的成果"},{"start":10821.95,"end":10822.95,"text":"我相信在國外"},{"start":10822.95,"end":10824.95,"text":"特別在美國或是歐盟的部分"},{"start":10824.95,"end":10826.95,"text":"都已經看到我們努力的成果"},{"start":10826.95,"end":10827.95,"text":"那相對的就是"},{"start":10827.95,"end":10830.95,"text":"針對這種強迫勞動的這個部分"},{"start":10830.95,"end":10832.95,"text":"我們必須長期持續做"},{"start":10832.95,"end":10835.95,"text":"所以也為什麼我們漁撈公約裡面"},{"start":10835.95,"end":10838.95,"text":"有非常重要的勞動條件的保障"},{"start":10838.95,"end":10842.95,"text":"包括生活條件的一個保障的部分"},{"start":10842.95,"end":10844.95,"text":"在漁船上面的一個生活空間"},{"start":10844.95,"end":10845.95,"text":"還有醫療"},{"start":10845.95,"end":10848.95,"text":"那甚至於我們也啟動了遠距醫療"},{"start":10848.95,"end":10849.95,"text":"在船上的部分"},{"start":10849.95,"end":10852.95,"text":"那這個部分都受到美國或歐盟的一個肯定"},{"start":10852.95,"end":10856.95,"text":"是 歐盟現在2027他年底也要開始上路"},{"start":10856.95,"end":10858.95,"text":"所以我再次提醒對這個事情"},{"start":10858.95,"end":10861.95,"text":"希望這個部長能夠放在心上"},{"start":10861.95,"end":10864.95,"text":"希望我們最好今年就能夠除名"},{"start":10864.95,"end":10868.95,"text":"那基本上對我們後來在做一些談判上"},{"start":10868.95,"end":10870.95,"text":"也都會有一些幫助"},{"start":10870.95,"end":10874.95,"text":"我想我們送到六環院也希望委員能夠支持"},{"start":10874.95,"end":10875.95,"text":"那第二個部分就是"},{"start":10875.95,"end":10877.95,"text":"法案在審查的過程中"},{"start":10877.95,"end":10881.95,"text":"我們不會等法案通過以後才去開始執行"},{"start":10881.95,"end":10884.95,"text":"其實我們現在針對漁業人權的相關行動計畫"},{"start":10884.95,"end":10885.95,"text":"已經在實施了"},{"start":10885.95,"end":10886.95,"text":"對對對 就是"},{"start":10886.95,"end":10889.95,"text":"我想我們過去在遠洋這一塊"},{"start":10889.95,"end":10890.95,"text":"其實做了很多努力"},{"start":10890.95,"end":10891.95,"text":"不過去年大家也看到"},{"start":10891.95,"end":10893.95,"text":"就是我們現在製造業這個部分"},{"start":10893.95,"end":10898.95,"text":"好像也被美國海關ban在海關這邊"},{"start":10898.95,"end":10901.95,"text":"所以我們現在逐次強迫勞動的部分"},{"start":10901.95,"end":10903.95,"text":"可能要從漁業這個部分"},{"start":10903.95,"end":10906.95,"text":"一直到製造業這邊可能都會有關係"},{"start":10906.95,"end":10909.95,"text":"那我在上一個會期在很多質詢上"},{"start":10909.95,"end":10911.95,"text":"一直在問這個事情"},{"start":10911.95,"end":10914.95,"text":"就是所謂的禁止調查的部分"},{"start":10914.95,"end":10917.95,"text":"我不知道現在業館是不是還是經濟部這邊"},{"start":10917.95,"end":10918.95,"text":"是不是他們還"},{"start":10918.95,"end":10919.95,"text":"是不是可以告訴我們一下"},{"start":10919.95,"end":10922.95,"text":"現在在推動這個禁止調查的一個進度"},{"start":10925.33,"end":10926.33,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10932.75,"end":10933.75,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10934.41,"end":10935.41,"text":"抱歉我沒聽清楚"},{"start":10935.41,"end":10936.41,"text":"禁止調查"},{"start":10937.51,"end":10940.51,"text":"就是那個強迫勞動禁止調查的一個進度"},{"start":10940.51,"end":10944.51,"text":"那個因為當初只是一個個案嘛"},{"start":10944.51,"end":10945.51,"text":"對"},{"start":10945.51,"end":10947.51,"text":"那個案的話事實上廠商已經有跟"},{"start":10947.51,"end":10950.51,"text":"美國海關那邊有做說明"},{"start":10950.51,"end":10952.51,"text":"那現在好像沒有解嘛"},{"start":10953.54,"end":10955.54,"text":"對但是它只是暫時而已"},{"start":10955.54,"end":10956.54,"text":"對"},{"start":10956.54,"end":10958.54,"text":"然後它現在正在review"},{"start":10958.96,"end":10959.96,"text":"他們的承諾"},{"start":10959.96,"end":10961.96,"text":"而且廠商已經承諾把過去"},{"start":10961.96,"end":10964.96,"text":"因為重要還是說那個中介費的問題"},{"start":10964.96,"end":10965.96,"text":"服務費啦"},{"start":10965.96,"end":10966.96,"text":"服務費"},{"start":10966.96,"end":10968.96,"text":"他們已經承諾把過去的已經緩繁了"},{"start":10968.96,"end":10969.96,"text":"是是是"},{"start":10969.96,"end":10973.96,"text":"那所以現在這個美國海關正在了解當中"},{"start":10973.96,"end":10975.96,"text":"正在調查當中"},{"start":10975.96,"end":10976.96,"text":"不過看起來"},{"start":10978.06,"end":10980.06,"text":"算是算是正常"},{"start":10980.06,"end":10982.06,"text":"對因為這個十一項指標"},{"start":10982.06,"end":10983.06,"text":"其實跟我們國內的法律"},{"start":10983.06,"end":10985.06,"text":"目前是有一些漢格的狀況"},{"start":10985.06,"end":10987.06,"text":"所以這個可能就要問黃部長"},{"start":10987.06,"end":10988.06,"text":"現在的部分"},{"start":10988.06,"end":10989.06,"text":"到底我們那個"},{"start":10989.06,"end":10991.06,"text":"我看好像也有其他委員在問嘛"},{"start":10991.06,"end":10993.06,"text":"就是說我們這個那個服務費的部分"},{"start":10993.06,"end":10994.06,"text":"那個六萬塊"},{"start":10994.06,"end":10996.06,"text":"一八一七五這個部分"},{"start":10996.06,"end":10997.06,"text":"我們怎麼樣好像最近"},{"start":10997.84,"end":10999.84,"text":"在政策在講是不是要朝雇主端"},{"start":10999.84,"end":11002.84,"text":"去去收這個招募費的部分"},{"start":11002.84,"end":11004.84,"text":"應該是說其實"},{"start":11004.84,"end":11005.84,"text":"基本上"},{"start":11005.84,"end":11007.84,"text":"服務費的部分一個很重要的原則就是"},{"start":11007.84,"end":11009.84,"text":"就是要有服務"},{"start":11009.84,"end":11011.84,"text":"才能夠收費"},{"start":11011.84,"end":11015.84,"text":"那我們在這一次的台美的ART裡面"},{"start":11015.84,"end":11016.84,"text":"那其實有一個部分"},{"start":11016.84,"end":11018.84,"text":"也是要來落實"},{"start":11018.84,"end":11021.84,"text":"就是你要有服務才能夠收費"},{"start":11021.84,"end":11022.84,"text":"那這個原則"},{"start":11022.84,"end":11024.84,"text":"那我想我們目前也"},{"start":11024.84,"end":11027.84,"text":"也跟一些相關的組織在討論"},{"start":11027.84,"end":11030.84,"text":"也包括跟各方勞資大家在討論"},{"start":11030.84,"end":11033.84,"text":"那來落實這個原則的方式"},{"start":11033.84,"end":11035.84,"text":"就是No Service No Fee"},{"start":11035.84,"end":11037.84,"text":"其實原則是這樣"},{"start":11037.84,"end":11039.84,"text":"所以部長這個部分還是"},{"start":11039.84,"end":11042.84,"text":"請部長多多跟這個產業溝通啦"},{"start":11042.84,"end":11045.84,"text":"我想很多人來找我講一些事情"},{"start":11045.84,"end":11048.84,"text":"我覺得我都有幫這個黃部長"},{"start":11048.84,"end":11049.84,"text":"做一些捍衛啦"},{"start":11049.84,"end":11051.84,"text":"說我覺得這個是普世的價值"},{"start":11051.84,"end":11052.84,"text":"我們希望我們還是要"},{"start":11052.84,"end":11054.84,"text":"我們還是要朝這個方向去做"},{"start":11054.84,"end":11056.84,"text":"減少這些移工啊"},{"start":11056.84,"end":11058.84,"text":"他這個債務束縛的部分"},{"start":11058.84,"end":11060.84,"text":"就是有關於這個"},{"start":11060.84,"end":11061.84,"text":"他的這個服務費的部分"},{"start":11061.84,"end":11063.84,"text":"我們是希望就是有"},{"start":11063.84,"end":11064.84,"text":"剛剛這個院長也說嘛"},{"start":11064.84,"end":11066.84,"text":"這些大廠目前大概都是由"},{"start":11066.84,"end":11067.84,"text":"資方在處理"},{"start":11067.84,"end":11069.84,"text":"就是你有沒有服務的事實"},{"start":11069.84,"end":11070.84,"text":"那你服務了誰"},{"start":11070.84,"end":11072.84,"text":"你服務如果是幫勞工服務的話"},{"start":11072.84,"end":11075.84,"text":"如果勞工需要某些提供的一些服務的話"},{"start":11075.84,"end":11076.84,"text":"當然勞工某部分"},{"start":11076.84,"end":11078.84,"text":"他有時候也會需要服務"},{"start":11078.84,"end":11079.84,"text":"但是要確認有服務的事實"},{"start":11079.84,"end":11081.84,"text":"對資方的服務也是一樣"},{"start":11081.84,"end":11083.84,"text":"有服務才能夠收費"},{"start":11083.84,"end":11085.84,"text":"我覺得這個是我們在台美的ART裡面"},{"start":11085.84,"end":11087.84,"text":"在這個部分簽訂的原則是這樣"},{"start":11087.84,"end":11089.84,"text":"是好那第二題啊"},{"start":11089.84,"end":11090.84,"text":"大概就是這一題啊"},{"start":11090.84,"end":11091.84,"text":"我想去年上個會期啊"},{"start":11091.84,"end":11094.84,"text":"其實我提出了非常多勞動政策的一些改善"},{"start":11094.84,"end":11096.84,"text":"那這個也得到行政院這邊"},{"start":11096.84,"end":11097.84,"text":"很好的一個回應啊"},{"start":11097.84,"end":11099.84,"text":"像那些產價的部分啊"},{"start":11099.84,"end":11101.84,"text":"這個這個其實產的"},{"start":11101.84,"end":11103.84,"text":"都比我還要來得先進啊"},{"start":11103.84,"end":11105.84,"text":"那唯一就是這一題啊"},{"start":11105.84,"end":11106.84,"text":"謝謝委員的提議啊"},{"start":11106.84,"end":11107.84,"text":"部長很爭取"},{"start":11107.84,"end":11108.84,"text":"我們衡量之後"},{"start":11108.84,"end":11110.84,"text":"這個同時不增加產業的負擔"},{"start":11110.84,"end":11111.84,"text":"是是是"},{"start":11111.84,"end":11112.84,"text":"完全政府來投"},{"start":11112.84,"end":11114.84,"text":"其實這個勞動政策本來就很難推啦"},{"start":11114.84,"end":11116.84,"text":"因為涉及到勞資雙方啦"},{"start":11116.84,"end":11118.84,"text":"不過剩下這一題啊"},{"start":11118.84,"end":11119.84,"text":"去年就今年啦"},{"start":11119.84,"end":11121.84,"text":"這個5月1號這個勞團"},{"start":11121.84,"end":11123.84,"text":"他基本上主要訴求啊"},{"start":11123.84,"end":11124.84,"text":"就是勞退這個部分啦"},{"start":11124.84,"end":11127.84,"text":"他們一直希望這個6%能夠提升啦"},{"start":11127.84,"end":11128.84,"text":"其實我上一個會期"},{"start":11129.85,"end":11130.85,"text":"這個在做詢答的時候"},{"start":11130.85,"end":11131.85,"text":"也是問這一題啦"},{"start":11131.85,"end":11133.85,"text":"不曉得現在有沒有什麼具體的進展"},{"start":11133.85,"end":11135.85,"text":"就固體的部分啦"},{"start":11135.85,"end":11137.85,"text":"那當然那個過去部長說"},{"start":11137.85,"end":11138.85,"text":"去鼓勵自體啦"},{"start":11138.85,"end":11139.85,"text":"那固體的部分是不是可以"},{"start":11139.85,"end":11141.85,"text":"試圖的做一些調整"},{"start":11141.85,"end":11143.85,"text":"那部長有沒有跟這個資方"},{"start":11143.85,"end":11145.85,"text":"再做一些進一步的溝通"},{"start":11145.85,"end":11146.85,"text":"跟委員報告喔"},{"start":11146.85,"end":11150.85,"text":"的確其實我們目前一直在思考"},{"start":11150.85,"end":11153.85,"text":"在一個如何整體來幫勞工"},{"start":11153.85,"end":11155.85,"text":"可以有更多退休金的方向"},{"start":11155.85,"end":11157.85,"text":"來逐步的來檢討我們的制度"},{"start":11157.85,"end":11158.85,"text":"所以這是為什麼"},{"start":11158.85,"end":11160.85,"text":"其實我們在今年的8月的時候"},{"start":11160.85,"end":11162.85,"text":"我們也讓這個"},{"start":11162.85,"end":11164.85,"text":"純就制的勞工"},{"start":11164.85,"end":11165.85,"text":"開放他能夠自體"},{"start":11165.85,"end":11167.85,"text":"甚至提前的節存"},{"start":11167.85,"end":11169.85,"text":"來去累積他的退休金"},{"start":11169.85,"end":11170.85,"text":"其實這就是一步"},{"start":11170.85,"end":11173.85,"text":"那當然大家現在也看到"},{"start":11173.85,"end":11175.85,"text":"我們勞退薪資整體的基金運用"},{"start":11175.85,"end":11178.85,"text":"今年的成效其實也相當的不錯"},{"start":11178.85,"end":11180.85,"text":"所以我們的確我們會在"},{"start":11180.85,"end":11183.85,"text":"這個大的就是整體希望能夠讓"},{"start":11183.85,"end":11185.85,"text":"勞工的退休金增加的這個方向上"},{"start":11185.85,"end":11188.85,"text":"那一步一步的來做相關的檢討"},{"start":11188.85,"end":11190.85,"text":"那當然對於雇主提撥增加的部分"},{"start":11190.85,"end":11192.85,"text":"我想我們還是會來收集大家"},{"start":11192.85,"end":11194.85,"text":"還是要來收集大家的意見"},{"start":11194.85,"end":11195.85,"text":"可是我認為我們會是在"},{"start":11195.85,"end":11197.85,"text":"這一個大的方向上面"},{"start":11197.85,"end":11199.85,"text":"來做相關的這個"},{"start":11199.85,"end":11201.85,"text":"有一些勞團他們現在有一些提案方案"},{"start":11201.85,"end":11204.85,"text":"說用漸進式的方式來做調整"},{"start":11204.85,"end":11206.85,"text":"部長應該有收到這樣的資訊嗎"},{"start":11206.85,"end":11208.85,"text":"我們都有看到這些提案"},{"start":11208.85,"end":11210.85,"text":"那這些勞工的團體他們的意見"},{"start":11210.85,"end":11212.85,"text":"他們的想法我想這當然都會是"},{"start":11212.85,"end":11215.85,"text":"我們在收整相關意見的時候"},{"start":11215.85,"end":11216.85,"text":"一個很重要的來源"},{"start":11216.85,"end":11218.85,"text":"還是請部長多多幫忙"},{"start":11218.85,"end":11220.85,"text":"因為真的很多勞團他們希望"},{"start":11220.85,"end":11222.85,"text":"因應期盼的就是這一項"},{"start":11224.45,"end":11226.45,"text":"那再來就是"},{"start":11226.55,"end":11229.55,"text":"這一個每年颱風其實我都非常的害怕"},{"start":11229.55,"end":11231.55,"text":"不是害怕颱風"},{"start":11231.55,"end":11234.55,"text":"是怕災後的重建的部分"},{"start":11234.55,"end":11238.55,"text":"其實不管在公共衛生或是職業衛生"},{"start":11238.55,"end":11241.55,"text":"或者是這個一般衛生的領域裡面"},{"start":11241.55,"end":11245.55,"text":"他大概都會非常非常care這個十年的事情"},{"start":11245.55,"end":11247.55,"text":"這個大概我們這個年紀才知道"},{"start":11247.55,"end":11251.55,"text":"早期都是隔熱都是用這個十面瓦的部分"},{"start":11251.55,"end":11254.55,"text":"所以每次災後其實都有這個問題"},{"start":11254.55,"end":11258.55,"text":"那我們知道這個過去環保署環境部"},{"start":11258.55,"end":11260.55,"text":"基本上做了很多的努力"},{"start":11260.55,"end":11262.55,"text":"那我想環境部跟OPELAW"},{"start":11263.35,"end":11267.35,"text":"現在我們十面在IOC上面"},{"start":11267.35,"end":11269.35,"text":"其實都是一級的自癌物"},{"start":11269.35,"end":11271.35,"text":"所以我們過去做了很多方略"},{"start":11271.35,"end":11275.35,"text":"環境部這邊好像過去有一些推估的方式"},{"start":11275.35,"end":11277.35,"text":"去推估大概那個建築"},{"start":11277.35,"end":11279.35,"text":"不過現在看起來每年"},{"start":11279.35,"end":11282.35,"text":"在做verify的時候好像不是非常準確"},{"start":11282.35,"end":11283.35,"text":"不知道有沒有什麼更積極的方法"},{"start":11283.35,"end":11285.35,"text":"可以大概推估我們大概的數量"},{"start":11285.35,"end":11288.35,"text":"報告委員這個其實都用衛星的遙測"},{"start":11288.35,"end":11291.35,"text":"那我們現在加上地面的無人機的偵測"},{"start":11291.35,"end":11293.35,"text":"所以數量每年有在調整"},{"start":11293.35,"end":11295.35,"text":"那現在比較麻煩的是說"},{"start":11295.35,"end":11297.35,"text":"現在十面瓦沒有壞掉"},{"start":11297.35,"end":11298.35,"text":"沒有颱風吹掉"},{"start":11298.35,"end":11300.35,"text":"沒有損壞其實沒有問題的"},{"start":11300.35,"end":11301.35,"text":"現在就損壞的時候"},{"start":11301.35,"end":11302.35,"text":"我們有定期的經費"},{"start":11302.35,"end":11304.35,"text":"那因為去年颱風比較大"},{"start":11304.35,"end":11305.35,"text":"所以破壞比較多"},{"start":11305.35,"end":11307.35,"text":"所以行政院也給我們很大的支持"},{"start":11307.35,"end":11310.35,"text":"所以目前去化的量能是沒有問題的"},{"start":11310.35,"end":11313.35,"text":"那現在就等時間慢慢的去化當中"},{"start":11313.35,"end":11314.35,"text":"對我了解啦"},{"start":11314.35,"end":11317.35,"text":"所以基本上我們就是比較怕說"},{"start":11317.35,"end":11320.35,"text":"因為環境部這邊都是補助輕運的部分"},{"start":11320.35,"end":11322.35,"text":"其實我為什麼會提出問題來"},{"start":11322.35,"end":11324.35,"text":"就是因為大家知道十面那個東西"},{"start":11324.35,"end":11326.35,"text":"對我們的費會有很大的傷害"},{"start":11326.35,"end":11329.35,"text":"而且發作可能會在非常非常多年"},{"start":11329.35,"end":11331.35,"text":"我們在學界也倡議了非常非常多年"},{"start":11331.35,"end":11333.35,"text":"我們比較擔心的是後端"},{"start":11333.35,"end":11334.35,"text":"就是他在重建的時候"},{"start":11334.35,"end":11338.35,"text":"那些工人他對於十面的危害不清楚"},{"start":11338.35,"end":11339.35,"text":"或對他做一些這個"},{"start":11339.35,"end":11342.35,"text":"他在施作的時候的標準程序不了解"},{"start":11342.35,"end":11345.35,"text":"所以我們希望勞動部能夠持續做這個專案"},{"start":11345.35,"end":11346.35,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":11346.35,"end":11349.35,"text":"因為委員其實是治安委的專家"},{"start":11349.35,"end":11352.35,"text":"其實在去年尤其是丹納斯颱風以後"},{"start":11352.35,"end":11356.35,"text":"那環境部這邊是比較是補助輕運的部分"},{"start":11356.35,"end":11357.35,"text":"那我們特別也看到了"},{"start":11357.35,"end":11359.35,"text":"包括當時在拆除"},{"start":11359.35,"end":11360.35,"text":"是"},{"start":11360.35,"end":11363.35,"text":"或者是在重建的過程裡面"},{"start":11363.35,"end":11366.35,"text":"其實可能還是會有一些工作者"},{"start":11366.35,"end":11368.35,"text":"他可能是受雇於這個"},{"start":11368.35,"end":11371.35,"text":"一些小的工班的老闆"},{"start":11371.35,"end":11373.35,"text":"或者是其他的類型的工作者"},{"start":11373.35,"end":11376.35,"text":"他有可能會去碰觸到這個十面的危險"},{"start":11377.35,"end":11379.35,"text":"所以我們其實去年其實也有一個"},{"start":11379.35,"end":11382.35,"text":"針對這些工作者"},{"start":11382.35,"end":11383.35,"text":"那他的宣導"},{"start":11383.35,"end":11387.35,"text":"包括他的防護用具的補助計畫"},{"start":11387.35,"end":11388.35,"text":"尤其是這個啦"},{"start":11388.35,"end":11390.35,"text":"那我們也設了一個在南部的據點"},{"start":11390.35,"end":11391.35,"text":"來推廣這件事情"},{"start":11391.35,"end":11392.35,"text":"那我跟委員報告"},{"start":11392.35,"end":11395.35,"text":"我想今年我們意識到這個事情的風險之後"},{"start":11395.35,"end":11399.35,"text":"會讓這樣子的一個專案的補助計畫繼續往前走"},{"start":11399.35,"end":11400.35,"text":"就是他不會停下來"},{"start":11400.35,"end":11401.35,"text":"這部分我想"},{"start":11401.35,"end":11403.35,"text":"因為我們都知道這個十面"},{"start":11403.35,"end":11405.35,"text":"如果在不小心的狀況下的危害是大的"},{"start":11405.35,"end":11407.35,"text":"所以我們也很關注這件事情"},{"start":11407.35,"end":11408.35,"text":"是"},{"start":11408.35,"end":11410.35,"text":"那最後就是要拜託這個院長"},{"start":11410.35,"end":11413.35,"text":"我代表專業跟你請命"},{"start":11413.35,"end":11417.35,"text":"就是說因為很多人其實不是很知道這個十面相關的一個危害"},{"start":11417.35,"end":11420.35,"text":"是不是我們可以增加一些科普"},{"start":11420.35,"end":11421.35,"text":"就增加一些科普"},{"start":11421.35,"end":11423.35,"text":"讓大家知道這個的危險"},{"start":11423.35,"end":11427.35,"text":"這個可能要看看這個責任要由誰來處政"},{"start":11427.35,"end":11429.35,"text":"可能是衛福部或是什麼"},{"start":11429.35,"end":11431.35,"text":"他們可不可以多一些"},{"start":11431.35,"end":11432.35,"text":"一般科普的一些宣導"},{"start":11432.35,"end":11435.35,"text":"跟大家說如果有這樣的東西在處理的時候"},{"start":11435.35,"end":11436.35,"text":"要注意"},{"start":11436.35,"end":11439.35,"text":"可以減少很多其實有時候在處理未必是真正的是勞工"},{"start":11439.35,"end":11442.35,"text":"他可能是自己家人或自己的親戚就在處理了"},{"start":11442.35,"end":11443.35,"text":"好 報告委員"},{"start":11443.35,"end":11445.35,"text":"這個部分是環境部在負責"},{"start":11445.35,"end":11447.35,"text":"那我們過去都有在網路上推"},{"start":11447.35,"end":11450.35,"text":"但是因為本部的文宣預算都被砍了很多"},{"start":11450.35,"end":11452.35,"text":"所以對我發現最大的麻煩是"},{"start":11452.35,"end":11454.35,"text":"鄉下的阿公阿嬤"},{"start":11454.35,"end":11455.35,"text":"他們不了解都一直敲"},{"start":11455.35,"end":11457.35,"text":"所以我們有發到這樣的問題"},{"start":11457.35,"end":11460.35,"text":"我們也會想辦法來針對那個年長者"},{"start":11460.35,"end":11462.35,"text":"因為他們大概都是傳統的"},{"start":11462.35,"end":11463.35,"text":"不是用新的媒體來推動"},{"start":11463.35,"end":11465.35,"text":"也希望委員以後支持"},{"start":11465.35,"end":11467.35,"text":"是 所以我想這個部分很重要"},{"start":11467.35,"end":11470.35,"text":"十年風險的一般的科普"},{"start":11470.35,"end":11471.35,"text":"提醒大家"},{"start":11471.35,"end":11473.35,"text":"我想環境部是責無旁貸"},{"start":11473.35,"end":11475.35,"text":"但是在施工當中"},{"start":11475.35,"end":11478.35,"text":"施工者以及這個施工的營造單位"},{"start":11478.35,"end":11481.35,"text":"本身應該有的這種知識"},{"start":11481.35,"end":11483.35,"text":"我想要請老長"},{"start":11483.35,"end":11485.35,"text":"所以不斷的予多說會繼續推動下去"},{"start":11485.35,"end":11486.35,"text":"我們都會有專案"},{"start":11486.35,"end":11488.35,"text":"然後包括人力包括人員"},{"start":11488.35,"end":11490.35,"text":"我們都會持續的進行"},{"start":11490.35,"end":11492.35,"text":"這也是記取去年的教訓"},{"start":11492.35,"end":11494.35,"text":"好 非常感謝"},{"start":11494.35,"end":11495.35,"text":"當然最後這邊就是"},{"start":11495.35,"end":11497.35,"text":"第一個就是國防的部分"},{"start":11497.35,"end":11500.35,"text":"剛剛那個郭部長應該很多人都在問他"},{"start":11500.35,"end":11502.35,"text":"當然還是留一點時間"},{"start":11502.35,"end":11504.35,"text":"讓郭部長跟大家說明一下"},{"start":11504.35,"end":11506.35,"text":"其實我今年到美國去了"},{"start":11506.35,"end":11508.35,"text":"或是我接待很多國會的議員"},{"start":11508.35,"end":11509.35,"text":"或不然是他的助理"},{"start":11509.35,"end":11511.35,"text":"其實他們對於我們這個第二批"},{"start":11511.35,"end":11513.35,"text":"其實不是只有我們關注"},{"start":11513.35,"end":11514.35,"text":"其實他們本身"},{"start":11514.35,"end":11517.35,"text":"美國他們相關的人員也非常關注"},{"start":11517.35,"end":11519.35,"text":"那是不是可以趕快讓他"},{"start":11519.35,"end":11520.35,"text":"這個第二批的都上軌道"},{"start":11520.35,"end":11521.35,"text":"然後指揮國會"},{"start":11521.35,"end":11523.35,"text":"部長是不是要用這個時間"},{"start":11523.35,"end":11524.35,"text":"再跟大家說明一下"},{"start":11526.74,"end":11528.74,"text":"第二批我想這個部分"},{"start":11528.74,"end":11530.74,"text":"我們還是尊重美方他"},{"start":11530.74,"end":11532.74,"text":"跟我們一再的說明"},{"start":11532.74,"end":11534.74,"text":"就是依照這個程序"},{"start":11534.74,"end":11536.74,"text":"正在進行審議當中"},{"start":11536.74,"end":11539.74,"text":"對台的我想政策都沒有任何的改變"},{"start":11539.74,"end":11542.74,"text":"所以我們還是期待就是說"},{"start":11542.74,"end":11545.74,"text":"儘速能夠完成這個審議的程序"},{"start":11545.74,"end":11547.74,"text":"是 因為剛剛前面有委員在講"},{"start":11547.74,"end":11549.74,"text":"一直都很多人在把這個"},{"start":11549.74,"end":11552.74,"text":"跟這個川習會連在一起"},{"start":11552.74,"end":11554.74,"text":"希望這個川習會現在也開完了"},{"start":11554.74,"end":11556.74,"text":"我們是不是能夠就這個部分"},{"start":11556.74,"end":11557.74,"text":"做一個明確的部分"},{"start":11557.74,"end":11560.74,"text":"也請部長多多這個費心"},{"start":11560.74,"end":11562.74,"text":"另外就是這個S-16 Block這個部分"},{"start":11562.74,"end":11565.74,"text":"這個最近飛回來兩台"},{"start":11565.74,"end":11567.74,"text":"接下來當然很多人就問"},{"start":11567.74,"end":11568.74,"text":"那其他的部分"},{"start":11568.74,"end":11570.74,"text":"部長有沒有各進一步的消息"},{"start":11571.78,"end":11573.78,"text":"就是有關於這個S-16的部分"},{"start":11573.78,"end":11578.78,"text":"S-16我想加緊的這個在量產當中"},{"start":11578.78,"end":11581.78,"text":"所以我想現在應該已經有六十幾架"},{"start":11581.78,"end":11583.78,"text":"應該在產線的生產當中"},{"start":11583.78,"end":11587.78,"text":"那應該陸續已經有生產完畢的"},{"start":11587.78,"end":11589.78,"text":"會通過測試之後"},{"start":11589.78,"end":11592.78,"text":"然後我們會跟美方協調安排"},{"start":11592.78,"end":11594.78,"text":"就通過這個測試的飛機"},{"start":11594.78,"end":11596.78,"text":"在適當的時間能夠揮發這樣子"},{"start":11596.78,"end":11598.78,"text":"對 因為前幾天訪問的時候"},{"start":11598.78,"end":11600.78,"text":"部長好像談到這個所謂的補償機制"},{"start":11600.78,"end":11601.78,"text":"不知道這個什麼意思"},{"start":11601.78,"end":11604.78,"text":"就是有關於S-16延遲交貨的部分"},{"start":11604.78,"end":11607.78,"text":"補償的機制這個部分也就是說"},{"start":11607.78,"end":11609.78,"text":"美方 我們是跟美政府"},{"start":11609.78,"end":11610.78,"text":"軍事都是跟美政府"},{"start":11610.78,"end":11613.78,"text":"我們跟美方的政府在洽談"},{"start":11613.78,"end":11617.78,"text":"有一些有關這個非現金的補償的"},{"start":11617.78,"end":11620.78,"text":"因為不可能用現金來進行賠償"},{"start":11620.78,"end":11622.78,"text":"所以我們可能會做一些"},{"start":11622.78,"end":11625.78,"text":"不是現金的一些補償的一些事項"},{"start":11625.78,"end":11629.78,"text":"那這些事項我們後續會再跟美方"},{"start":11629.78,"end":11631.78,"text":"這邊來洽談"},{"start":11631.78,"end":11632.78,"text":"對 因為我會這樣問"},{"start":11632.78,"end":11634.78,"text":"是因為我們都知道FMBS"},{"start":11634.78,"end":11636.78,"text":"基本上美國他們其實有一個"},{"start":11636.78,"end":11638.78,"text":"很嚴謹的制度"},{"start":11638.78,"end":11640.78,"text":"而且美國也不是透過這個方法"},{"start":11640.78,"end":11641.78,"text":"在做獲利"},{"start":11641.78,"end":11642.78,"text":"所以我們過去都是想說"},{"start":11642.78,"end":11644.78,"text":"好像沒有在獲利"},{"start":11644.78,"end":11647.78,"text":"美國那邊可能有一些他們生產線"},{"start":11647.78,"end":11649.78,"text":"對 他的軍售案就是不賺不賠"},{"start":11649.78,"end":11652.78,"text":"因為他是由我們跟美方來"},{"start":11652.78,"end":11654.78,"text":"他是對我們的承諾"},{"start":11654.78,"end":11656.78,"text":"那美方的話再跟這個"},{"start":11656.78,"end":11658.78,"text":"他的供應商"},{"start":11658.78,"end":11661.78,"text":"以F16來講會干脆我們再來簽約"},{"start":11661.78,"end":11664.78,"text":"對 所以院長跟部長都看到"},{"start":11664.78,"end":11667.78,"text":"其實這個F16飛進台灣"},{"start":11667.78,"end":11668.78,"text":"其實對台灣整個"},{"start":11668.78,"end":11671.78,"text":"大家的士氣會有很大的幫助"},{"start":11671.78,"end":11672.78,"text":"接下來那些"},{"start":11672.78,"end":11675.78,"text":"還是請院長跟部長多多費心"},{"start":11676.59,"end":11679.59,"text":"感謝委員對國防需求的支持"},{"start":11679.59,"end":11682.59,"text":"我想從這個觀點來看"},{"start":11682.59,"end":11684.59,"text":"我們對未來在爭取更多的"},{"start":11684.59,"end":11685.59,"text":"國防預算的時候"},{"start":11685.59,"end":11686.59,"text":"還請委員多多的支持"},{"start":11686.59,"end":11688.59,"text":"是 那剛剛也有委員問到"},{"start":11688.59,"end":11690.59,"text":"無人機的部分"},{"start":11690.59,"end":11693.59,"text":"其實我也有看到現在追加預算"},{"start":11693.59,"end":11694.59,"text":"我知道因為是那個時候"},{"start":11694.59,"end":11695.59,"text":"送進來的時候"},{"start":11695.59,"end":11697.59,"text":"116送進來的時候"},{"start":11697.59,"end":11698.59,"text":"本來以為是特別條例"},{"start":11698.59,"end":11699.59,"text":"特別預算"},{"start":11699.59,"end":11700.59,"text":"所以現在就編在"},{"start":11700.59,"end":11703.59,"text":"115的追加預算裡面"},{"start":11703.59,"end":11705.59,"text":"不過追加裡面"},{"start":11705.59,"end":11708.59,"text":"其實有包含116的對不對"},{"start":11708.59,"end":11709.59,"text":"那個部長"},{"start":11709.59,"end":11710.59,"text":"就是有包含116的"},{"start":11710.59,"end":11713.59,"text":"是 跟委員報告一下"},{"start":11713.59,"end":11717.59,"text":"因為他這個案子在當時的時候"},{"start":11717.59,"end":11721.59,"text":"我們要再編116年度的預算的時候"},{"start":11721.59,"end":11723.59,"text":"因為我們還有那個"},{"start":11723.59,"end":11724.59,"text":"無人機的特別條例"},{"start":11724.59,"end":11726.59,"text":"在立法院審議當中"},{"start":11726.59,"end":11728.59,"text":"所以我們沒有辦法擺進去"},{"start":11728.59,"end":11730.59,"text":"116年度的年度預算"},{"start":11731.59,"end":11736.59,"text":"所以因此我們經行政院核定之後"},{"start":11736.59,"end":11739.59,"text":"我們把它就這個無人機"},{"start":11739.59,"end":11742.59,"text":"我們本來要放特別預算的這個部門"},{"start":11742.59,"end":11744.59,"text":"我們改納入年度預算"},{"start":11744.59,"end":11746.59,"text":"我們依照它的急迫性"},{"start":11746.59,"end":11749.59,"text":"我們希望在115年度的追加預算"},{"start":11749.59,"end":11751.59,"text":"就能夠放進去我們所需要的"},{"start":11751.59,"end":11753.59,"text":"就是說你放在115的追加"},{"start":11753.59,"end":11755.59,"text":"好像有點怪怪的"},{"start":11755.59,"end":11756.59,"text":"你們再審討一下"},{"start":11756.59,"end":11757.59,"text":"看要怎麼樣的處理"},{"start":11757.59,"end":11759.59,"text":"就115的當然是OK"},{"start":11759.59,"end":11762.59,"text":"可是你現在編起來是連116都編進來"},{"start":11762.59,"end":11764.59,"text":"所以看起來是有點"},{"start":11764.59,"end":11765.59,"text":"我們為了追趕"},{"start":11765.59,"end":11767.59,"text":"所以就已經落後的"},{"start":11767.59,"end":11769.59,"text":"跟設定了116年度的計畫"},{"start":11769.59,"end":11771.59,"text":"能夠如期來執行"},{"start":11771.59,"end":11772.59,"text":"所以我們就"},{"start":11772.59,"end":11774.59,"text":"然後能夠依照原定的目標"},{"start":11774.59,"end":11776.59,"text":"進來形成這個無人機的戰力"},{"start":11776.59,"end":11779.59,"text":"所以我們才會配合這個的需求"},{"start":11779.59,"end":11782.59,"text":"我們將這個沒有辦法"},{"start":11782.59,"end":11786.59,"text":"現在已經沒有辦法編入116年度的年度預算"},{"start":11786.59,"end":11793.59,"text":"116年度的需要支出的經費"},{"start":11793.59,"end":11796.59,"text":"並同115年的追加預算來辦"},{"start":11796.59,"end":11800.59,"text":"這一點還麻煩請大院能夠支持"},{"start":11800.59,"end":11802.59,"text":"會在委員會討論"},{"start":11802.59,"end":11805.59,"text":"我非常清楚這個流程"},{"start":11805.59,"end":11808.59,"text":"所以因為116年度的年度預算已經編了"},{"start":11808.59,"end":11812.59,"text":"本來希望編116年以後的特別預算"},{"start":11812.59,"end":11814.59,"text":"但大院希望我們編年度預算"},{"start":11814.59,"end":11816.59,"text":"所以我們116年度都要編"},{"start":11816.59,"end":11818.59,"text":"除非編116年度的追加預算"},{"start":11818.59,"end":11820.59,"text":"但對我們來講會延誤一年"},{"start":11820.59,"end":11822.59,"text":"所以是要編115年的追加預算"},{"start":11822.59,"end":11824.59,"text":"116年度的追加預算"},{"start":11824.59,"end":11829.59,"text":"我還要等到116年的總預算再審完"},{"start":11829.59,"end":11833.59,"text":"那我們也不曉得116年的總預算什麼時候審完"},{"start":11833.59,"end":11834.59,"text":"那這樣的話"},{"start":11834.59,"end":11836.59,"text":"那又要再拖一年"},{"start":11836.59,"end":11840.59,"text":"就是給這個院這邊知道一下"},{"start":11840.59,"end":11842.59,"text":"大概說我們大概進委會再來做討論"},{"start":11842.59,"end":11843.59,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11843.59,"end":11847.59,"text":"最後一題當然還是要幫地方請面一下"},{"start":11847.59,"end":11849.59,"text":"王奉遠縣長雖然要卸任"},{"start":11849.59,"end":11853.59,"text":"不過非常積極的還是繼續在奔走"},{"start":11853.59,"end":11857.59,"text":"那一天我也跟縣長一起到院長那邊"},{"start":11857.59,"end":11859.59,"text":"來徵請這個預算"},{"start":11859.59,"end":11862.59,"text":"也希望院長最後一點時間"},{"start":11862.59,"end":11864.59,"text":"能夠大力支持我們彰化的一些建設"},{"start":11864.59,"end":11866.59,"text":"看到我們王奉遠縣長這麼努力"},{"start":11866.59,"end":11869.59,"text":"我們幾位委員都一起派下來爭取"},{"start":11869.59,"end":11871.59,"text":"是不是請院長到最後幾秒鐘"},{"start":11871.59,"end":11872.59,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":11872.59,"end":11874.59,"text":"我們到彰化也成為委員"},{"start":11874.59,"end":11877.59,"text":"能夠陪著我們一起視察很多的地方"},{"start":11877.59,"end":11879.59,"text":"那提出的11項重大建設"},{"start":11879.59,"end":11881.59,"text":"就除了明大大學"},{"start":11881.59,"end":11884.59,"text":"那個跟我們原來想像的不盡相同之外"},{"start":11884.59,"end":11885.59,"text":"那也取得縣長的了解"},{"start":11885.59,"end":11888.59,"text":"其他的11項有的都已經"},{"start":11888.59,"end":11890.59,"text":"幾乎可以朝向一個固定的方式再走了"},{"start":11890.59,"end":11892.59,"text":"另外還有一些就等縣府"},{"start":11892.59,"end":11894.59,"text":"送上來他的修正計畫"},{"start":11894.59,"end":11895.59,"text":"我們後續就來推動"},{"start":11895.59,"end":11898.59,"text":"那無論如何這都是王縣長8年當中"},{"start":11898.59,"end":11900.59,"text":"很努力拼出來的地方成果"},{"start":11900.59,"end":11902.59,"text":"是啊我們常常講說這個地方建設"},{"start":11902.59,"end":11904.59,"text":"應該不分黨派"},{"start":11904.59,"end":11905.59,"text":"而且要有延續性"},{"start":11905.59,"end":11907.59,"text":"所以我們希望這幾項建設"},{"start":11907.59,"end":11911.59,"text":"尤其像我們幾個像園林自行車"},{"start":11911.59,"end":11913.59,"text":"或者是我們南部的冷鏈"},{"start":11913.59,"end":11915.59,"text":"其實對地方發展都非常重要"},{"start":11915.59,"end":11916.59,"text":"那請院長多多幫忙"},{"start":11918.59,"end":11919.59,"text":"謝謝王委員"},{"start":11919.59,"end":11920.59,"text":"謝謝卓院長"},{"start":11920.59,"end":11923.59,"text":"報告院會上午質詢到此為止"},{"start":11923.59,"end":11926.59,"text":"下午2點30分繼續開會"},{"start":11927.97,"end":11929.97,"text":"進行質詢現在休息"},{"start":21610.16,"end":21612.16,"text":"好 卓院長各位閣員午安"},{"start":21612.16,"end":21614.16,"text":"我們現在要繼續進行質詢"},{"start":21614.16,"end":21618.16,"text":"接下來我們要請王世堅委員請質詢"},{"start":21618.16,"end":21620.16,"text":"柯志恩委員請準備"},{"start":21648.46,"end":21650.46,"text":"王世堅委員請準備"},{"start":21677.72,"end":21680.72,"text":"謝謝主席我請卓院長"},{"start":21680.88,"end":21681.88,"text":"麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":21684.46,"end":21685.46,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":21695.91,"end":21696.91,"text":"王委員好"},{"start":21697.72,"end":21699.72,"text":"卓院長又是新的會期開始了"},{"start":21700.64,"end":21703.64,"text":"也是一個嶄新的契機希望"},{"start":21703.64,"end":21704.64,"text":"是"},{"start":21704.66,"end":21705.66,"text":"我今天"},{"start":21706.6,"end":21707.6,"text":"特地帶來"},{"start":21708.12,"end":21710.12,"text":"這副弓箭要送給你"},{"start":21710.41,"end":21711.41,"text":"喲"},{"start":21713.09,"end":21714.09,"text":"嗯嗯"},{"start":21714.14,"end":21715.14,"text":"第一個意義"},{"start":21716.27,"end":21717.27,"text":"我就是"},{"start":21717.8,"end":21719.8,"text":"希望你能夠更理解"},{"start":21720.62,"end":21722.62,"text":"執政 施政"},{"start":21722.88,"end":21724.88,"text":"就像拉弓射箭"},{"start":21725.65,"end":21727.65,"text":"力道要恰到好處"},{"start":21728.57,"end":21729.57,"text":"丟丟"},{"start":21729.77,"end":21730.77,"text":"我希望你"},{"start":21731.93,"end":21732.93,"text":"能夠"},{"start":21732.99,"end":21733.99,"text":"為我們台灣"},{"start":21735.06,"end":21736.06,"text":"射出"},{"start":21736.06,"end":21738.06,"text":"濁魁三箭"},{"start":21738.06,"end":21740.06,"text":"就像日本的安徽"},{"start":21741.19,"end":21743.19,"text":"這個三箭一樣"},{"start":21744.33,"end":21745.33,"text":"那麼"},{"start":21746.29,"end":21747.29,"text":"新的會期開始"},{"start":21747.29,"end":21749.29,"text":"跟在野黨的溝通非常重要"},{"start":21749.29,"end":21751.29,"text":"有我們不只明年度的預算"},{"start":21751.29,"end":21753.29,"text":"還有追加預算等等"},{"start":21754.29,"end":21755.29,"text":"我夠"},{"start":21755.42,"end":21756.42,"text":"我們能夠向"},{"start":21758.01,"end":21760.01,"text":"拉箭射弓一樣"},{"start":21760.82,"end":21763.82,"text":"這個力道要恰到好處"},{"start":21765.93,"end":21766.93,"text":"夠"},{"start":21766.86,"end":21768.86,"text":"就像政治手腕"},{"start":21769.42,"end":21770.42,"text":"就像"},{"start":21771.35,"end":21772.35,"text":"資源"},{"start":21772.65,"end":21773.65,"text":"預算"},{"start":21774.18,"end":21775.18,"text":"那麼"},{"start":21775.18,"end":21777.18,"text":"弓拉的太鬆沒有力量"},{"start":21777.3,"end":21779.3,"text":"施政無力拉的太緊"},{"start":21781.42,"end":21782.42,"text":"斷掉了"},{"start":21782.77,"end":21784.77,"text":"那就一事無成"},{"start":21785.23,"end":21786.23,"text":"這非常要緊"},{"start":21787.38,"end":21790.38,"text":"所以要拉的恰到好處"},{"start":21791.29,"end":21792.29,"text":"那麼其次"},{"start":21792.29,"end":21794.29,"text":"我也希望說"},{"start":21794.29,"end":21795.29,"text":"在新的會期"},{"start":21795.29,"end":21797.29,"text":"你能夠再一度"},{"start":21797.29,"end":21799.29,"text":"拿出像你剛就任的時候"},{"start":21799.29,"end":21801.29,"text":"那時候的熱情活力一樣"},{"start":21802.58,"end":21804.58,"text":"為我們台灣射出"},{"start":21804.58,"end":21808.58,"text":"像日本安倍晉三的三箭"},{"start":21808.58,"end":21810.58,"text":"安倍三箭"},{"start":21810.58,"end":21813.58,"text":"在我們台灣把握現在這個時機"},{"start":21813.58,"end":21815.58,"text":"現在是我們台灣"},{"start":21815.58,"end":21818.58,"text":"經濟實力也最強盛的時候"},{"start":21819.12,"end":21821.12,"text":"把握這個時機"},{"start":21821.26,"end":21823.26,"text":"射出這三箭"},{"start":21823.46,"end":21824.46,"text":"第一箭"},{"start":21825.18,"end":21826.18,"text":"我們成立"},{"start":21827.34,"end":21829.34,"text":"主權基金進軍事件"},{"start":21830.14,"end":21831.14,"text":"第二箭"},{"start":21831.14,"end":21833.14,"text":"建立亞太資產管理中心"},{"start":21834.14,"end":21835.14,"text":"第三箭"},{"start":21835.14,"end":21837.14,"text":"結合輝達"},{"start":21837.14,"end":21840.14,"text":"厚植AI產業"},{"start":21840.99,"end":21842.99,"text":"我希望這三箭"},{"start":21842.99,"end":21844.99,"text":"你能夠在這個會期"},{"start":21844.99,"end":21847.99,"text":"把握我們台灣最強盛的時候"},{"start":21848.95,"end":21850.95,"text":"能夠為我們整個國家"},{"start":21850.95,"end":21852.95,"text":"射出未來這三箭"},{"start":21852.95,"end":21855.95,"text":"所以我送給你這副弓箭"},{"start":21855.95,"end":21856.95,"text":"讓你放在"},{"start":21857.95,"end":21858.95,"text":"你的院長室"},{"start":21890.1,"end":21892.1,"text":"非常謝謝王委員的"},{"start":21892.83,"end":21893.83,"text":"期許"},{"start":21894.26,"end":21897.26,"text":"跟你這個三支箭的含義"},{"start":21898.4,"end":21901.4,"text":"我倒是希望行政立法兩院"},{"start":21901.4,"end":21903.4,"text":"我們能拿同一把弓箭"},{"start":21904,"end":21905,"text":"射同樣的一個把"},{"start":21905.82,"end":21906.82,"text":"這個才重要"},{"start":21906.82,"end":21908.82,"text":"如果我們的把是一樣的"},{"start":21908.82,"end":21909.82,"text":"把先是一樣的"},{"start":21909.82,"end":21911.82,"text":"那我們的目標就是一樣"},{"start":21911.82,"end":21914.82,"text":"力道只有行政院來射都不夠"},{"start":21914.82,"end":21916.82,"text":"行政兩院一同射一把箭"},{"start":21916.82,"end":21917.82,"text":"射向同樣的把"},{"start":21917.82,"end":21918.82,"text":"讓台灣更進步"},{"start":21920.08,"end":21924.08,"text":"對 我們2300萬人不分哪個政黨"},{"start":21924.08,"end":21926.08,"text":"那我們是執政黨"},{"start":21926.08,"end":21928.08,"text":"我們就再度釋出善意"},{"start":21928.67,"end":21931.67,"text":"大家好好溝通政策 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那個與會裡面"},{"start":22205.87,"end":22206.87,"text":"有一個吳德威"},{"start":22207.8,"end":22208.8,"text":"吳德威你應該知道"},{"start":22209.89,"end":22211.89,"text":"六年前2019年"},{"start":22211.89,"end":22213.89,"text":"他在耕斗雲聯網"},{"start":22213.89,"end":22215.89,"text":"這一個董事長的時候"},{"start":22215.89,"end":22217.89,"text":"違法引入中資"},{"start":22217.89,"end":22219.89,"text":"獵豹移動"},{"start":22219.89,"end":22220.89,"text":"你記不記得"},{"start":22221.87,"end":22224.87,"text":"到時被你們經濟部投審司"},{"start":22225.91,"end":22227.91,"text":"掃撿掉耶"},{"start":22228.19,"end":22230.19,"text":"這個人大大方方就坐在你旁邊"},{"start":22230.19,"end":22232.19,"text":"一起再跟你談Grab的事"},{"start":22233.5,"end":22234.5,"text":"天啊"},{"start":22235.44,"end":22236.44,"text":"我現在請問你啊"},{"start":22237.79,"end":22239.79,"text":"公平衛跟你比平行單位好"},{"start":22239.79,"end":22242.79,"text":"投審司是你下屬單位"},{"start":22242.79,"end":22245.79,"text":"你在上面的一舉手一投足"},{"start":22246.95,"end":22248.95,"text":"欸 他們都看得很清楚"},{"start":22248.95,"end":22250.95,"text":"你是在暗示他嗎"},{"start":22250.95,"end":22251.95,"text":"沒有這樣 沒有這樣"},{"start":22251.95,"end":22252.95,"text":"我跟你舉個例子"},{"start":22254.16,"end":22255.16,"text":"去年啊"},{"start":22256.01,"end":22257.01,"text":"那個要合併"},{"start":22258.97,"end":22259.97,"text":"星光金"},{"start":22259.97,"end":22262.97,"text":"台積金跟中信金正在競爭的時候"},{"start":22264.92,"end":22268.92,"text":"中信金用盡各種方法請金管會的人"},{"start":22268.92,"end":22271.92,"text":"去參加他們辦的也是這種亂談"},{"start":22272.99,"end":22275.99,"text":"當時的金管會彭主委"},{"start":22275.99,"end":22277.99,"text":"是如何被言詞拒絕"},{"start":22277.99,"end":22279.99,"text":"而且他沒有去"},{"start":22280.46,"end":22282.46,"text":"這才是正確的啊"},{"start":22283.54,"end":22284.54,"text":"去了"},{"start":22284.54,"end":22285.54,"text":"一張照片"},{"start":22286.66,"end":22287.66,"text":"就代表一切了"},{"start":22288.65,"end":22290.65,"text":"更何況你在那裡不只一張照片"},{"start":22291.75,"end":22293.75,"text":"你不只這張照片"},{"start":22294.3,"end":22295.3,"text":"你還講了一堆話"},{"start":22297.51,"end":22300.51,"text":"所以我不懂啦你這是什麼意思"},{"start":22300.51,"end":22301.51,"text":"那時間暫停"},{"start":22301.51,"end":22303.51,"text":"我請公平衛陳主委在這裡"},{"start":22304.41,"end":22306.41,"text":"公平衛陳大律主委在這邊"},{"start":22306.41,"end":22307.41,"text":"委員我已經在那邊"},{"start":22307.41,"end":22309.41,"text":"公平衛已經被尋了請"},{"start":22309.41,"end":22311.41,"text":"喔就你喔抱歉抱歉"},{"start":22311.41,"end":22312.41,"text":"請"},{"start":22312.41,"end":22313.41,"text":"抱歉"},{"start":22315.38,"end":22318.38,"text":"你可以問問院長旁邊的主委陳主委"},{"start":22319.87,"end":22322.87,"text":"我想你在這一個論壇你也有受到邀請"},{"start":22322.87,"end":22326.87,"text":"但是你沒有去嘛對不對"},{"start":22326.87,"end":22328.87,"text":"那你為什麼沒有去"},{"start":22328.87,"end":22330.87,"text":"因為這個案子目前是在我們審查當中啦"},{"start":22330.87,"end":22332.87,"text":"我是覺得不太妥當"},{"start":22332.87,"end":22334.87,"text":"是啊你在審查不是嗎"},{"start":22336.76,"end":22342.76,"text":"經濟部辭私我們國家所有我們自己內資外資在台灣的投資"},{"start":22342.76,"end":22343.76,"text":"尤其"},{"start":22345.26,"end":22348.26,"text":"如果在公平衛這邊通過了"},{"start":22348.26,"end":22350.26,"text":"不管怎麼樣通過附條件條"},{"start":22350.26,"end":22353.26,"text":"再來就是經濟部投審司要審"},{"start":22354.71,"end":22356.71,"text":"那個部長這樣你聽到了吧"},{"start":22356.71,"end":22358.71,"text":"他說他們正在審理中"},{"start":22358.71,"end":22360.71,"text":"他不宜參加不是這樣嗎"},{"start":22362.24,"end":22364.24,"text":"更何況你去的你還講的這些肉麻的話"},{"start":22366.38,"end":22368.38,"text":"你有什麼好解釋嗎"},{"start":22368.62,"end":22370.62,"text":"我沒有講什麼話"},{"start":22371.24,"end":22373.24,"text":"這就是一個開幕致詞"},{"start":22373.24,"end":22376.24,"text":"開幕致詞開幕致詞就是講我剛剛講的這個嘛"},{"start":22376.24,"end":22378.24,"text":"而且就是一般性的致詞"},{"start":22378.24,"end":22382.24,"text":"一般這個叫一般性對你對你來講一般性啦"},{"start":22384.79,"end":22386.79,"text":"都"},{"start":22386.42,"end":22393.42,"text":"全整個社會關注的尤其對外送平台還有這些小吃業者"},{"start":22395.2,"end":22397.2,"text":"他們"},{"start":22396.33,"end":22398.33,"text":"引領氣派說"},{"start":22398.33,"end":22401.33,"text":"政府是不是能夠很公平的審查幫他們擋住"},{"start":22402,"end":22405,"text":"因為去年Uber才來要病夫潘打"},{"start":22405,"end":22408,"text":"被公平衛拒絕了駁回"},{"start":22408,"end":22411,"text":"現在他換個名字Grab"},{"start":22411.65,"end":22413.65,"text":"好"},{"start":22412.82,"end":22414.82,"text":"Grab就是Uber啊"},{"start":22415.43,"end":22419.43,"text":"他們兩個病人要占總市場95%以上"},{"start":22419.43,"end":22421.43,"text":"這當然是壟斷"},{"start":22422.25,"end":22424.25,"text":"水"},{"start":22423.55,"end":22425.55,"text":"這個當然"},{"start":22424.91,"end":22426.91,"text":"結論怎麼樣"},{"start":22427.09,"end":22429.09,"text":"你們自己判斷"},{"start":22429.09,"end":22430.09,"text":"那你"},{"start":22430.09,"end":22432.09,"text":"幹嘛不應該去"},{"start":22431.01,"end":22434.01,"text":"因為你的位階跟你執掌的職權"},{"start":22434.01,"end":22436.01,"text":"你手握的資源"},{"start":22437.32,"end":22439.32,"text":"遠大於公平位"},{"start":22440.2,"end":22442.2,"text":"那你這麼做"},{"start":22441.79,"end":22443.79,"text":"然後"},{"start":22471.79,"end":22474.79,"text":"所以如果讓他們合併成功"},{"start":22474.79,"end":22478.79,"text":"我們台灣的圖紙將呈現在華為在中共面前"},{"start":22478.79,"end":22480.79,"text":"這是另外一個國安問題"},{"start":22480.79,"end":22482.79,"text":"結果"},{"start":22482.79,"end":22484.79,"text":"你好像不太當一回事"},{"start":22484.79,"end":22489.79,"text":"然後更扯的是扯出一個說運輸總工會的理事長名字我就不提"},{"start":22489.79,"end":22493.79,"text":"他說他代表他們是18個外送工會"},{"start":22493.79,"end":22495.79,"text":"結果我們去查根本鬼扯"},{"start":22495.79,"end":22497.79,"text":"真正的外送平台工會"},{"start":22497.79,"end":22499.79,"text":"外送的"},{"start":22500.08,"end":22502.08,"text":"這些外送員"},{"start":22502.08,"end":22504.08,"text":"人家他們的工會"},{"start":22504.08,"end":22506.08,"text":"他們有工會完全沒有被要求參加"},{"start":22506.08,"end":22509.08,"text":"這個傢伙說他們掌握18個工會"},{"start":22509.08,"end":22511.08,"text":"我去查的結果"},{"start":22511.08,"end":22513.08,"text":"這些工會根本叫做簡單講四個字"},{"start":22513.08,"end":22515.08,"text":"幽靈工會"},{"start":22515.08,"end":22517.08,"text":"真的工會"},{"start":22517.07,"end":22518.07,"text":"不要去"},{"start":22518.27,"end":22519.27,"text":"然後弄個傢伙"},{"start":22520.29,"end":22522.29,"text":"這個傢伙甚至原來背後"},{"start":22522.29,"end":22524.29,"text":"Grab答應要投資他們"},{"start":22525.93,"end":22527.93,"text":"的運輸業天哪"},{"start":22528.49,"end":22530.49,"text":"誰"},{"start":22530.1,"end":22532.1,"text":"部長我跟你講"},{"start":22532.1,"end":22534.1,"text":"你搞不清楚狀況以前"},{"start":22534.1,"end":22536.1,"text":"至少"},{"start":22535.07,"end":22537.07,"text":"你的地址"},{"start":22536.88,"end":22538.88,"text":"你的位階你又搞清楚"},{"start":22539.18,"end":22541.18,"text":"不能碰就是不能碰"},{"start":22541.18,"end":22543.18,"text":"你不能說我禮貌興趣致辭"},{"start":22545.55,"end":22547.55,"text":"他也是禮貌興趣運用啊"},{"start":22547.93,"end":22549.93,"text":"然後你屬下單位就看到了"},{"start":22550.48,"end":22552.48,"text":"誰敢審"},{"start":22552.48,"end":22554.48,"text":"我的立場是中立的我完全沒有偏袒"},{"start":22554.48,"end":22556.48,"text":"任何"},{"start":22556.48,"end":22558.48,"text":"這個叫中立"},{"start":22558.48,"end":22560.48,"text":"中立"},{"start":22560.48,"end":22562.48,"text":"我一句話就好"},{"start":22562.48,"end":22564.48,"text":"我們經常會參加各種"},{"start":22564.48,"end":22566.48,"text":"產業各種不同的一個活動"},{"start":22566.48,"end":22568.48,"text":"去總是希望國內各行各業"},{"start":22568.48,"end":22570.48,"text":"產業能夠"},{"start":22570.48,"end":22572.48,"text":"公平的"},{"start":22572.48,"end":22574.48,"text":"而且很正面的去發展"},{"start":22574.48,"end":22576.48,"text":"那我跟"},{"start":22576.3,"end":22578.3,"text":"公務長還有經濟部還有其他部會同仁"},{"start":22578.3,"end":22580.3,"text":"在多少次的會議當中我們認為"},{"start":22580.3,"end":22582.3,"text":"臺灣應該有一個公平的一個"},{"start":22582.3,"end":22584.3,"text":"社會的商業的環境"},{"start":22584.3,"end":22586.3,"text":"競爭的條件這個"},{"start":22586.3,"end":22588.3,"text":"都是我們在內心有的一個標準"},{"start":22588.3,"end":22590.3,"text":"所以如果你認為我們"},{"start":22590.3,"end":22592.3,"text":"認為公務長在當天的"},{"start":22592.3,"end":22594.3,"text":"舉手投足代表一個什麼"},{"start":22594.3,"end":22596.3,"text":"樣的意義的話今天我在"},{"start":22596.3,"end":22598.3,"text":"這裡再鄭重的說對"},{"start":22598.3,"end":22600.3,"text":"這個事情公平會依"},{"start":22600.3,"end":22602.3,"text":"照法律公平"},{"start":22602.3,"end":22604.3,"text":"的去審理政府沒有特別立場"},{"start":22604.3,"end":22606.3,"text":"沒有偏袒哪一邊"},{"start":22606.3,"end":22608.3,"text":"但是我們追求一個公平合理的"},{"start":22608.3,"end":22610.3,"text":"社會以及商業環境的"},{"start":22610.3,"end":22612.3,"text":"這個活動是我們內心的爭議"},{"start":22612.3,"end":22614.3,"text":"我們一切就看月底審"},{"start":22614.3,"end":22616.3,"text":"出來的結論是怎樣"},{"start":22616.3,"end":22618.3,"text":"好不好我希望這個"},{"start":22618.3,"end":22620.3,"text":"結論不要讓"},{"start":22620.3,"end":22622.3,"text":"我們整個社會產生"},{"start":22622.3,"end":22624.3,"text":"有三疏的感覺"},{"start":22624.3,"end":22626.3,"text":"再來我講一個比較輕鬆的話題"},{"start":22626.3,"end":22628.3,"text":"這個也是社會"},{"start":22628.3,"end":22630.3,"text":"關注我們臺灣的"},{"start":22630.3,"end":22632.3,"text":"罰單我們這幾年來"},{"start":22632.3,"end":22634.3,"text":"罰單大量增加"},{"start":22634.3,"end":22636.3,"text":"去年我們開了1631萬"},{"start":22637.44,"end":22639.44,"text":"的罰單"},{"start":22639.44,"end":22641.44,"text":"是日本日本去年"},{"start":22641.44,"end":22643.44,"text":"493萬件"},{"start":22643.73,"end":22645.73,"text":"鄧總我們的人口2300萬"},{"start":22645.73,"end":22647.73,"text":"日本1.2億人"},{"start":22649.12,"end":22651.12,"text":"日本的人口是我們的5倍"},{"start":22651.12,"end":22653.12,"text":"車輛是我們的3.4倍"},{"start":22653.12,"end":22655.12,"text":"結果他的罰單"},{"start":22655.12,"end":22657.12,"text":"是我們三分之一不到"},{"start":22657.12,"end":22659.12,"text":"三分之一不到"},{"start":22660.1,"end":22662.1,"text":"哦"},{"start":22662.08,"end":22664.08,"text":"我們比起十年前"},{"start":22664.08,"end":22666.08,"text":"我們總建樹"},{"start":22666.08,"end":22668.08,"text":"快速成長"},{"start":22668.62,"end":22670.62,"text":"衝"},{"start":22670.33,"end":22672.33,"text":"這個"},{"start":22671.96,"end":22673.96,"text":"928萬件"},{"start":22673.96,"end":22675.96,"text":"成長到將近兩倍"},{"start":22675.96,"end":22677.96,"text":"1631件"},{"start":22677.96,"end":22679.96,"text":"1.75倍"},{"start":22680.23,"end":22682.23,"text":"1.75倍"},{"start":22682.02,"end":22684.02,"text":"所以我覺得這不可思議"},{"start":22684.02,"end":22686.02,"text":"那你如果說罰單開了"},{"start":22686.02,"end":22688.02,"text":"如果能夠降低我們車禍死亡人數"},{"start":22688.02,"end":22690.02,"text":"減少車禍的傷亡等等"},{"start":22690.02,"end":22692.02,"text":"也還好"},{"start":22692.02,"end":22694.02,"text":"結果我們的車禍死亡人數"},{"start":22694.02,"end":22696.02,"text":"都一直高居"},{"start":22696.02,"end":22698.02,"text":"3000位"},{"start":22698.02,"end":22700.02,"text":"111年3064位"},{"start":22700.02,"end":22702.02,"text":"去年減到2800位"},{"start":22702.02,"end":22704.02,"text":"當然有進步"},{"start":22704.02,"end":22706.02,"text":"但是反觀日本"},{"start":22706.02,"end":22708.02,"text":"日本交通死亡人數就我講"},{"start":22708.02,"end":22710.02,"text":"他的人口"},{"start":22710.02,"end":22712.02,"text":"是我們的五倍"},{"start":22712.02,"end":22714.02,"text":"但是他車禍死傷"},{"start":22714.02,"end":22716.02,"text":"傷亡人數是不到"},{"start":22716.02,"end":22718.02,"text":"我們的八成"},{"start":22718.02,"end":22720.02,"text":"他才2500人而已"},{"start":22720.02,"end":22722.02,"text":"他我們的五倍人口"},{"start":22722.02,"end":22724.02,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分"},{"start":22724.02,"end":22726.02,"text":"如果說真的能夠改善交通也還好"},{"start":22726.02,"end":22728.02,"text":"還有交通部一向"},{"start":22728.02,"end":22730.02,"text":"有速度的迷失"},{"start":22730.02,"end":22732.02,"text":"我去列舉了說"},{"start":22732.02,"end":22734.02,"text":"那十大會發生車禍的原因"},{"start":22734.02,"end":22736.02,"text":"最大的車禍的原因就是"},{"start":22736.02,"end":22738.02,"text":"駕駛人"},{"start":22738.02,"end":22740.02,"text":"緊張心不在焉"},{"start":22740.02,"end":22742.02,"text":"還有包括什麼"},{"start":22742.02,"end":22744.02,"text":"我們到處科技"},{"start":22744.02,"end":22746.02,"text":"執法太多"},{"start":22746.02,"end":22748.02,"text":"你看我們罰單數這麼高"},{"start":22748.02,"end":22750.02,"text":"駕駛人根本沒辦法"},{"start":22750.02,"end":22752.02,"text":"完全安心"},{"start":22752.02,"end":22754.02,"text":"當然交通部也做很多改善"},{"start":22754.02,"end":22756.02,"text":"尤其是對機車"},{"start":22756.02,"end":22758.02,"text":"你們要求"},{"start":22758.02,"end":22760.02,"text":"對車況對燈光"},{"start":22760.02,"end":22762.02,"text":"煞車零件你們要求這麼多"},{"start":22762.02,"end":22764.02,"text":"可是"},{"start":22763.92,"end":22765.92,"text":"到現在為止"},{"start":22765.92,"end":22767.92,"text":"前十大噪音因素"},{"start":22767.92,"end":22769.92,"text":"沒有一項"},{"start":22769.4,"end":22771.4,"text":"是因為說"},{"start":22771.4,"end":22773.4,"text":"輪胎、燈光、煞車、零件"},{"start":22773.4,"end":22775.4,"text":"統統沒有"},{"start":22775.4,"end":22777.4,"text":"我們專欺負騎機車的小市民"},{"start":22777.4,"end":22779.4,"text":"朋友們"},{"start":22779.4,"end":22781.4,"text":"他們好差嘛,好欺負嘛"},{"start":22781.4,"end":22783.4,"text":"所以我認為對於機車的見解"},{"start":22783.4,"end":22785.4,"text":"還不如我們怎麼樣"},{"start":22785.4,"end":22787.4,"text":"我們給道路見解"},{"start":22787.4,"end":22789.4,"text":"這才有道理"},{"start":22789.4,"end":22791.4,"text":"道路高處有坑洞"},{"start":22792.77,"end":22794.77,"text":"凹凸不平上下齊居"},{"start":22794.77,"end":22796.77,"text":"這些比方說道路見解"},{"start":22796.77,"end":22798.77,"text":"我們該做的現在22縣市"},{"start":22798.77,"end":22800.77,"text":"很多地方都廣設"},{"start":22800.77,"end":22802.77,"text":"這個行人庇護島"},{"start":22802.77,"end":22804.77,"text":"那有的行人庇護島"},{"start":22804.77,"end":22806.77,"text":"高度不足"},{"start":22806.77,"end":22808.77,"text":"位置是在死角"},{"start":22808.77,"end":22810.77,"text":"那這些反而發生了很多車禍"},{"start":22810.77,"end":22812.77,"text":"這個台北市我們光是在內湖"},{"start":22812.77,"end":22814.77,"text":"兩個禮拜內"},{"start":22814.77,"end":22816.77,"text":"行人庇護島撞了四次"},{"start":22816.77,"end":22818.77,"text":"台中兩個月內"},{"start":22818.77,"end":22820.77,"text":"發生16件"},{"start":22820.77,"end":22822.77,"text":"機車左轉自撞"},{"start":22822.77,"end":22824.77,"text":"撞到行人庇護島"},{"start":22824.77,"end":22826.77,"text":"在這些部分"},{"start":22826.77,"end":22828.77,"text":"院長是不是你可以"},{"start":22828.77,"end":22830.77,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒"},{"start":22830.77,"end":22832.77,"text":"我請部長再來詳細說明"},{"start":22832.77,"end":22834.77,"text":"我們應該檢討第一個是"},{"start":22834.77,"end":22836.77,"text":"道路的設施"},{"start":22836.77,"end":22838.77,"text":"是不是能夠合理"},{"start":22838.77,"end":22840.77,"text":"再來是交通規則是不是能夠"},{"start":22840.77,"end":22842.77,"text":"有人性化的一個設計"},{"start":22842.77,"end":22844.77,"text":"或者是我們的號誌規劃的設計"},{"start":22844.77,"end":22846.77,"text":"是不是適當"},{"start":22846.77,"end":22848.77,"text":"這個都必須檢討下來"},{"start":22848.77,"end":22850.77,"text":"再來是說國人的手法跟習慣"},{"start":22850.77,"end":22852.77,"text":"我們要能夠來協助大家如何養成"},{"start":22852.77,"end":22854.77,"text":"對人民來講"},{"start":22854.77,"end":22856.77,"text":"政府只有一個"},{"start":22856.77,"end":22858.77,"text":"不管是22縣市政府說"},{"start":22858.77,"end":22860.77,"text":"為了地方自己收入罰單"},{"start":22860.77,"end":22862.77,"text":"中央政府有權來"},{"start":22862.77,"end":22864.77,"text":"對這句話下個定義"},{"start":22864.77,"end":22866.77,"text":"簡單講先把罰單減量"},{"start":22868.66,"end":22869.66,"text":"我屁眼"},{"start":22870.28,"end":22872.28,"text":"過度曲解的罰單"},{"start":22872.28,"end":22876.28,"text":"應該通令22縣市好好檢討"},{"start":22876.28,"end":22878.28,"text":"可不可以"},{"start":22878.28,"end":22880.28,"text":"科技執法交通部在檢討當中"},{"start":22880.28,"end":22882.28,"text":"我們有測出了幾處"},{"start":22882.28,"end":22884.28,"text":"是不是部長來說明"},{"start":22884.28,"end":22886.28,"text":"跟委員報告您剛剛所質詢的內容"},{"start":22886.28,"end":22888.28,"text":"我知道您相當關心交通的議題"},{"start":22888.28,"end":22890.28,"text":"不過速度管理這一點是這個樣子"},{"start":22890.28,"end":22892.28,"text":"就是說以瑞典"},{"start":22892.28,"end":22894.28,"text":"臨死亡願景發起的國家"},{"start":22894.28,"end":22896.28,"text":"結果我知道了"},{"start":22896.28,"end":22898.28,"text":"報告時間有限部長"},{"start":22898.28,"end":22900.28,"text":"速度管理對他們來講是一個重要的"},{"start":22900.28,"end":22902.28,"text":"你先請回我知道"},{"start":22902.28,"end":22904.28,"text":"你剛剛講的那些我都看過"},{"start":22904.28,"end":22906.28,"text":"我只是告訴你說"},{"start":22906.21,"end":22908.21,"text":"時間繼續"},{"start":22917.99,"end":22919.99,"text":"20年前"},{"start":22919.99,"end":22921.99,"text":"就揪取過波波醫師"},{"start":22921.99,"end":22923.99,"text":"結果這20年來不但波波醫師"},{"start":22923.99,"end":22925.99,"text":"波波牙醫大量的"},{"start":22925.99,"end":22927.99,"text":"增長那麼這嚴重的"},{"start":22927.99,"end":22929.99,"text":"危害了我們的台灣價值"},{"start":22929.99,"end":22931.99,"text":"台灣價值就是我們台灣"},{"start":22931.99,"end":22933.99,"text":"每個人每個世代都要有"},{"start":22933.99,"end":22935.99,"text":"公平的就學權"},{"start":22935.99,"end":22937.99,"text":"受教權教育權"},{"start":22937.99,"end":22939.99,"text":"公平的工作權"},{"start":22939.99,"end":22941.99,"text":"哪有這些波波醫師"},{"start":22941.99,"end":22943.99,"text":"波波牙醫因為他們"},{"start":22943.99,"end":22945.99,"text":"在那樣子的國家受到的訊息"},{"start":22945.99,"end":22947.99,"text":"我們台灣的醫師或牙醫"},{"start":22947.99,"end":22949.99,"text":"是我們台灣這些醫學教授們"},{"start":22949.99,"end":22951.99,"text":"大家手把手交出來"},{"start":22951.99,"end":22953.99,"text":"所以我們台灣的"},{"start":22953.99,"end":22955.99,"text":"醫學的品質"},{"start":22955.99,"end":22957.99,"text":"是傲視世界"},{"start":22957.99,"end":22959.99,"text":"結果現在如果大量的"},{"start":22959.99,"end":22961.99,"text":"波波牙醫波波醫師"},{"start":22961.99,"end":22963.99,"text":"再繼續下去會嚴重的"},{"start":22963.99,"end":22965.99,"text":"影響降低了我們的"},{"start":22965.99,"end":22967.99,"text":"醫療水準所以我個人"},{"start":22967.99,"end":22969.99,"text":"是認為這樣我認為說"},{"start":22969.99,"end":22971.99,"text":"我們國外畢業生的學歷"},{"start":22971.99,"end":22973.99,"text":"應該改採要"},{"start":22973.99,"end":22975.99,"text":"任命的"},{"start":22975.99,"end":22977.99,"text":"要列這個名單"},{"start":22977.99,"end":22979.99,"text":"哪一些學校可以去"},{"start":22979.99,"end":22981.99,"text":"那麼畢業生"},{"start":22981.99,"end":22983.99,"text":"國外畢業生醫學系牙醫學系"},{"start":22983.99,"end":22985.99,"text":"應該限定名額是我們"},{"start":22985.99,"end":22987.99,"text":"國內招生名額的"},{"start":22987.99,"end":22989.99,"text":"十分之一才對"},{"start":22989.99,"end":22991.99,"text":"而且最重要我認為"},{"start":22991.99,"end":22993.99,"text":"要揭露在網站上"},{"start":22993.99,"end":22995.99,"text":"在醫院裡面要揭露"},{"start":22995.99,"end":22997.99,"text":"波波牙醫波波醫師的學歷"},{"start":22997.99,"end":22999.99,"text":"還有最後"},{"start":22999.99,"end":23001.99,"text":"我們政府應該拿出態度"},{"start":23001.99,"end":23003.99,"text":"波波醫師波波牙醫設"},{"start":23003.99,"end":23005.99,"text":"弱勢條款"},{"start":23005.99,"end":23007.99,"text":"大家不要再給他們有一條"},{"start":23007.99,"end":23009.99,"text":"中南節訓在我們台灣"},{"start":23009.99,"end":23011.99,"text":"要當醫師"},{"start":23011.99,"end":23013.99,"text":"大家就一步一步考試"},{"start":23013.99,"end":23015.99,"text":"優秀的"},{"start":23015.99,"end":23017.99,"text":"然後去念醫學院"},{"start":23017.99,"end":23019.99,"text":"然後嚴格的受教這樣才對"},{"start":23019.99,"end":23021.99,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":23022.59,"end":23024.59,"text":"是的我們認為"},{"start":23024.59,"end":23026.59,"text":"台灣的醫療的服務量能"},{"start":23026.59,"end":23028.59,"text":"舉世肯定我們要維持這樣的品質"},{"start":23028.59,"end":23030.59,"text":"所以由台灣內部"},{"start":23030.59,"end":23032.59,"text":"自己訓練而成的任何的醫師"},{"start":23032.59,"end":23034.59,"text":"護理人員都是我們珍惜的"},{"start":23034.59,"end":23036.59,"text":"但我們針對過去"},{"start":23036.59,"end":23038.59,"text":"多少年來有這些"},{"start":23038.59,"end":23040.59,"text":"剛剛委員所說的"},{"start":23040.59,"end":23042.59,"text":"波波牙醫這個部分"},{"start":23042.59,"end":23044.59,"text":"我們也去年以前也做了相當多的努力"},{"start":23044.59,"end":23046.59,"text":"我們希望在一定的量"},{"start":23047.21,"end":23049.21,"text":"來讓他們夠"},{"start":23049.19,"end":23051.19,"text":"把過去產生的這些能夠消化掉"},{"start":23051.19,"end":23053.19,"text":"一定的時間來解決這個問題"},{"start":23053.19,"end":23055.19,"text":"但是不會影響到本國的"},{"start":23055.19,"end":23057.19,"text":"新全的這樣新的我們就不要再"},{"start":23057.19,"end":23059.19,"text":"我們設個弱勢條款"},{"start":23059.19,"end":23061.19,"text":"好不好那個院長我時間有限"},{"start":23061.19,"end":23063.19,"text":"你請政部長請兩位"},{"start":23063.19,"end":23065.19,"text":"兩位部長好好"},{"start":23065.19,"end":23067.19,"text":"回去研究我剛剛講的弱勢"},{"start":23067.19,"end":23069.19,"text":"條款來落實"},{"start":23069.19,"end":23071.19,"text":"我們台灣的價值"},{"start":23071.19,"end":23073.19,"text":"我們再不影響台灣本地的"},{"start":23073.19,"end":23075.19,"text":"醫療品質的時候"},{"start":23075.19,"end":23077.19,"text":"另外我們有這麼優秀"},{"start":23077.19,"end":23079.19,"text":"我們有這麼良好這麼嚴謹的醫療品質"},{"start":23079.19,"end":23081.19,"text":"每年一定的量"},{"start":23081.19,"end":23083.19,"text":"一定的時間就要把這個事情能夠把它化解掉"},{"start":23083.19,"end":23085.19,"text":"現在是過度集十分之一"},{"start":23085.19,"end":23087.19,"text":"現在結果數字也超過十分之一"},{"start":23087.19,"end":23089.19,"text":"好時間暫停兩位部長請回"},{"start":23089.19,"end":23091.19,"text":"時間暫停兩位部長請"},{"start":23091.19,"end":23093.19,"text":"請返回"},{"start":23093.01,"end":23095.01,"text":"請返回"},{"start":23093.74,"end":23095.74,"text":"那個院長還有一件頭痛的事情"},{"start":23095.74,"end":23097.74,"text":"就是關於勞動部"},{"start":23097.74,"end":23099.74,"text":"就是說這個"},{"start":23099.74,"end":23101.74,"text":"我們在我們台灣的外籍"},{"start":23102.29,"end":23104.29,"text":"人事突破百萬"},{"start":23104.29,"end":23106.29,"text":"外籍移工也是"},{"start":23106.29,"end":23108.29,"text":"那麼外籍移工裡面逃逸的"},{"start":23108.29,"end":23110.29,"text":"現在竟然超過十萬人"},{"start":23110.29,"end":23112.29,"text":"結果好像"},{"start":23112.29,"end":23114.29,"text":"我們各級單位"},{"start":23114.29,"end":23116.29,"text":"移民署也好勞動部也好"},{"start":23116.29,"end":23118.29,"text":"我們警政單位"},{"start":23118.29,"end":23120.29,"text":"更是因為警政單位已經"},{"start":23120.29,"end":23122.29,"text":"太多任務要做了"},{"start":23122.29,"end":23124.29,"text":"要"},{"start":23123.37,"end":23125.37,"text":"防災"},{"start":23124.79,"end":23126.79,"text":"要抓毒"},{"start":23126.79,"end":23128.79,"text":"要一般的治安要交通"},{"start":23128.79,"end":23130.79,"text":"根本沒有餘力"},{"start":23130.79,"end":23132.79,"text":"所以是不是那個部長"},{"start":23132.79,"end":23134.79,"text":"在這個部份越南政府他們已經"},{"start":23134.79,"end":23136.79,"text":"祭出方式了啊"},{"start":23136.79,"end":23138.79,"text":"他們祭出一個方式就是說"},{"start":23138.79,"end":23140.79,"text":"如果我允許你"},{"start":23140.79,"end":23142.79,"text":"出國去工作的"},{"start":23142.79,"end":23144.79,"text":"你過了這個期限回來他們要罰"},{"start":23144.79,"end":23146.79,"text":"一億越南幣"},{"start":23147.69,"end":23149.69,"text":"他們祭出這個法則"},{"start":23149.69,"end":23151.69,"text":"所以院長是不是你車程部長"},{"start":23151.69,"end":23153.69,"text":"那個勞動部長"},{"start":23153.69,"end":23155.69,"text":"他好好的去想想說這個"},{"start":23155.69,"end":23157.69,"text":"部份怎麼樣"},{"start":23157.83,"end":23159.83,"text":"來做一個調整來因應"},{"start":23159.83,"end":23161.83,"text":"人家其他國家他們都有"},{"start":23161.83,"end":23163.83,"text":"好的對策了啊"},{"start":23163.83,"end":23165.83,"text":"那個部長"},{"start":23165.83,"end":23167.83,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":23167.53,"end":23169.53,"text":"其實在逃逸公的問題"},{"start":23169.53,"end":23171.53,"text":"或失聯移工的問題上"},{"start":23171.53,"end":23173.53,"text":"其實在2025年的時候"},{"start":23173.53,"end":23175.53,"text":"確實那時候是比較高峰"},{"start":23175.53,"end":23177.53,"text":"大概有到九萬五左右"},{"start":23177.53,"end":23179.53,"text":"那其實在這一年的時間裡面"},{"start":23179.53,"end":23181.53,"text":"這一年的時間"},{"start":23181.53,"end":23183.53,"text":"從今年上半年開始持續的在下降中"},{"start":23183.53,"end":23185.53,"text":"那目前"},{"start":23185.53,"end":23187.53,"text":"這個累積的"},{"start":23187.53,"end":23189.53,"text":"失聯移工的人數"},{"start":23189.53,"end":23191.53,"text":"大概已經低於九萬人了"},{"start":23191.53,"end":23193.53,"text":"我手上的數字是"},{"start":23193.53,"end":23195.53,"text":"十萬人喔"},{"start":23195.53,"end":23197.53,"text":"那已經低於九萬了"},{"start":23197.53,"end":23199.53,"text":"所以在今年我們整體"},{"start":23199.53,"end":23201.53,"text":"在這個失聯移工"},{"start":23201.53,"end":23203.53,"text":"的應對上面其實是有一些"},{"start":23203.53,"end":23205.53,"text":"成效的當然我們還會在"},{"start":23205.53,"end":23207.53,"text":"再接再厲因為我知道社會很關注"},{"start":23207.53,"end":23209.53,"text":"這個問題我們會在再接再厲"},{"start":23209.53,"end":23211.53,"text":"所以我們現在包括也跟"},{"start":23211.53,"end":23213.53,"text":"內政部也跟移民署我們"},{"start":23213.53,"end":23215.53,"text":"其實接下來會有更多跨部會"},{"start":23215.53,"end":23217.53,"text":"的合作尤其是針對這些"},{"start":23217.53,"end":23219.53,"text":"非法仲介"},{"start":23219.53,"end":23221.53,"text":"針對這些非法仲介"},{"start":23221.53,"end":23223.53,"text":"來去做強力的來去"},{"start":23223.53,"end":23225.53,"text":"做相關的查緝這部分"},{"start":23225.53,"end":23227.53,"text":"我們跟劉部長這邊我們已經開了"},{"start":23227.53,"end":23229.53,"text":"兩個部會開了跨部會的"},{"start":23229.53,"end":23231.53,"text":"這個會議劉部長我常跟他討論"},{"start":23231.53,"end":23233.53,"text":"政策他沒有問題好OK"},{"start":23233.53,"end":23235.53,"text":"那時間暫停你們兩位部長請回"},{"start":23235.53,"end":23237.53,"text":"時間暫停內政部勞動部請回"},{"start":23240.6,"end":23241.1,"text":"OK"},{"start":23243.18,"end":23244.18,"text":"請館會通知"},{"start":23244.18,"end":23246.18,"text":"請金管會諸位備詢"},{"start":23260.02,"end":23262.02,"text":"院長諸位"},{"start":23262.02,"end":23264.02,"text":"我們用AI防詐是對的"},{"start":23264.02,"end":23266.02,"text":"但是不能讓身心障礙者"},{"start":23266.02,"end":23268.02,"text":"變成可疑人物啦"},{"start":23269.51,"end":23273.01,"text":"事實上最近他們在做的就是要做影像"},{"start":23274.24,"end":23276.24,"text":"結果我們台灣身心障礙者"},{"start":23276.24,"end":23278.24,"text":"有120萬人"},{"start":23278.24,"end":23280.24,"text":"裡面有35萬位"},{"start":23280.24,"end":23282.24,"text":"是輪椅族"},{"start":23282.24,"end":23284.24,"text":"還有顏面商場的"},{"start":23284.24,"end":23286.24,"text":"也有上萬位"},{"start":23286.24,"end":23288.24,"text":"那他們幾乎完全"},{"start":23288.24,"end":23290.24,"text":"攝影不到而且這個"},{"start":23290.24,"end":23292.24,"text":"我們已經嚴重違反"},{"start":23292.24,"end":23294.24,"text":"身心障礙者權利公約"},{"start":23294.24,"end":23296.24,"text":"也違反了主委"},{"start":23296.24,"end":23298.24,"text":"那時候你在金管會你要求"},{"start":23298.24,"end":23300.24,"text":"銀行監控說你要"},{"start":23300.24,"end":23302.24,"text":"公平待客你訂了"},{"start":23302.24,"end":23304.24,"text":"一個公平待客原則"},{"start":23304.24,"end":23306.24,"text":"這不但違反身心障礙公約"},{"start":23306.24,"end":23308.24,"text":"也違反了你的"},{"start":23308.24,"end":23310.24,"text":"公平待客原則"},{"start":23310.24,"end":23312.24,"text":"而且導入ATM的"},{"start":23312.24,"end":23314.24,"text":"臉部防詐措施後"},{"start":23314.24,"end":23316.24,"text":"事實上"},{"start":23316.24,"end":23318.24,"text":"這整件事很粗暴"},{"start":23318.24,"end":23320.24,"text":"事先也沒宣導"},{"start":23320.24,"end":23322.24,"text":"那麼一下子全國現在"},{"start":23322.24,"end":23324.24,"text":"有3萬3000多台"},{"start":23324.24,"end":23326.24,"text":"大概去年本來只裝了1%"},{"start":23326.24,"end":23328.24,"text":"要影像的"},{"start":23328.24,"end":23330.24,"text":"現在已經高達7%"},{"start":23330.24,"end":23332.24,"text":"現在有2500台"},{"start":23332.24,"end":23334.24,"text":"照他們的說法還要繼續"},{"start":23334.24,"end":23336.24,"text":"增加到全部都不適"},{"start":23336.24,"end":23338.24,"text":"所以我覺得這不但是"},{"start":23338.24,"end":23340.24,"text":"違反這"},{"start":23339.98,"end":23341.98,"text":"兩大原則"},{"start":23342.56,"end":23344.56,"text":"也間接的"},{"start":23344.91,"end":23346.91,"text":"歧視的身障者"},{"start":23346.91,"end":23348.91,"text":"所以這個部分我希望"},{"start":23348.91,"end":23350.91,"text":"是不是你們能夠積極的"},{"start":23350.91,"end":23352.91,"text":"跟這些銀行監控公司好好談一談"},{"start":23352.91,"end":23354.91,"text":"就是"},{"start":23354.91,"end":23356.91,"text":"要防詐也對"},{"start":23356.91,"end":23358.91,"text":"但是既然要攝影"},{"start":23358.91,"end":23360.91,"text":"要影像"},{"start":23360.91,"end":23362.91,"text":"你就要調到拍得到"},{"start":23363.08,"end":23365.08,"text":"他坐著"},{"start":23364.67,"end":23366.67,"text":"他不用動"},{"start":23366.67,"end":23368.67,"text":"也應該拍得到"},{"start":23368.67,"end":23370.67,"text":"否則就不要來這一套"},{"start":23370.67,"end":23372.67,"text":"是是委員這個我們都有在考慮"},{"start":23372.67,"end":23374.67,"text":"所以這部分因為我們現在"},{"start":23374.67,"end":23376.67,"text":"只是先做一些示範我們收集很多意見"},{"start":23376.67,"end":23378.67,"text":"像剛剛委員提到都是我們未來"},{"start":23378.67,"end":23380.67,"text":"調教的重點"},{"start":23380.17,"end":23382.17,"text":"我現在還在鼓勵的性質"},{"start":23382.17,"end":23384.17,"text":"我現在還在努力裝"},{"start":23384.17,"end":23386.17,"text":"在鼓勵的性質我希望在執行的過程當中"},{"start":23386.17,"end":23388.17,"text":"高度角度"},{"start":23388.17,"end":23390.17,"text":"準度都要注意得到"},{"start":23390.17,"end":23392.17,"text":"避免王委員所說的"},{"start":23392.17,"end":23394.17,"text":"發生這種不愉快的反應"},{"start":23394.17,"end":23396.17,"text":"我們有35萬位"},{"start":23396.17,"end":23398.17,"text":"倫以族的朋友們"},{"start":23398.17,"end":23400.17,"text":"這一點要緊記在心"},{"start":23400.17,"end":23402.17,"text":"我們一定會"},{"start":23402.17,"end":23404.17,"text":"照顧到所有的"},{"start":23404.17,"end":23406.17,"text":"的需求"},{"start":23406.17,"end":23408.17,"text":"時間暫停你請回"},{"start":23408.25,"end":23410.25,"text":"時間暫停請回"},{"start":23410.25,"end":23412.25,"text":"院長我最後要跟你談"},{"start":23412.25,"end":23414.25,"text":"最頭痛的問題啦"},{"start":23414.52,"end":23416.52,"text":"就是關於死刑犯"},{"start":23416.52,"end":23418.52,"text":"那麼我們37位"},{"start":23418.52,"end":23420.52,"text":"死刑犯啊總算"},{"start":23420.52,"end":23422.52,"text":"老天懲罰病逝了"},{"start":23422.52,"end":23424.52,"text":"兩位那你一上任"},{"start":23424.52,"end":23426.52,"text":"有槍決一位但現在"},{"start":23426.52,"end":23428.52,"text":"等於還有34位"},{"start":23428.52,"end":23430.52,"text":"34位那麼"},{"start":23430.52,"end":23432.52,"text":"上回政部長也跟我說對"},{"start":23432.52,"end":23434.52,"text":"因為現在要請檢察"},{"start":23434.52,"end":23436.52,"text":"組長是不是要提出上訴"},{"start":23436.52,"end":23438.52,"text":"有啦"},{"start":23437.95,"end":23439.95,"text":"兩年來"},{"start":23439.95,"end":23441.95,"text":"提出兩件"},{"start":23441.95,"end":23443.95,"text":"上訴兩位死刑犯上訴"},{"start":23443.95,"end":23445.95,"text":"所以"},{"start":23446.36,"end":23448.36,"text":"兩年來才提出兩位上訴"},{"start":23448.36,"end":23450.36,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":23450.36,"end":23452.36,"text":"檢察總統根據那麼"},{"start":23452.36,"end":23454.36,"text":"多的狀況證據之後"},{"start":23454.36,"end":23456.36,"text":"以他那麼"},{"start":23456.36,"end":23458.36,"text":"專業的法律見解"},{"start":23458.36,"end":23460.36,"text":"他也一年一位"},{"start":23460.36,"end":23462.36,"text":"等於兩年兩年"},{"start":23462.36,"end":23464.36,"text":"本來我還寄望"},{"start":23464.36,"end":23466.36,"text":"五位不是兩位"},{"start":23466.36,"end":23468.36,"text":"五位你覺得五位比兩位多"},{"start":23468.36,"end":23470.36,"text":"五位就我跟你講的嘛"},{"start":23470.36,"end":23472.36,"text":"有三位是因為憲法"},{"start":23472.36,"end":23474.36,"text":"當時解釋的時候"},{"start":23474.36,"end":23476.36,"text":"他就同意啦"},{"start":23477.27,"end":23479.27,"text":"所以"},{"start":23479.27,"end":23481.27,"text":"另外有三位"},{"start":23481.27,"end":23483.27,"text":"但是那個不是檢察總長提起上訴的"},{"start":23483.27,"end":23485.27,"text":"不是"},{"start":23485.27,"end":23487.27,"text":"你認為五位就很"},{"start":23487.27,"end":23489.27,"text":"光榮嗎"},{"start":23489.27,"end":23491.27,"text":"沒有說就是要嚴格審核"},{"start":23491.27,"end":23493.27,"text":"要審核他那個"},{"start":23493.27,"end":23495.27,"text":"我們上回在這個總質詢的時候"},{"start":23495.27,"end":23497.27,"text":"說一年槍斃一位"},{"start":23497.27,"end":23499.27,"text":"我就說"},{"start":23499.27,"end":23501.27,"text":"那"},{"start":23499.35,"end":23501.35,"text":"三十五位槍斃完我們在座可能都坐谷了"},{"start":23501.35,"end":23503.35,"text":"現在更慘"},{"start":23504.53,"end":23506.53,"text":"現在原來不是一年要槍斃一位"},{"start":23506.53,"end":23508.53,"text":"一年要提起一位的非常上訴"},{"start":23510.99,"end":23512.99,"text":"等於就擺明了就是多位人就對了"},{"start":23514.03,"end":23516.03,"text":"一年才上訴一位"},{"start":23516.03,"end":23518.03,"text":"非常上訴又好幾年"},{"start":23518.03,"end":23520.03,"text":"非常上訴的結論"},{"start":23520.03,"end":23522.03,"text":"還不曉得怎麼樣"},{"start":23522.03,"end":23524.03,"text":"搞不好他平反啊"},{"start":23524.08,"end":23526.08,"text":"還放他出去呢"},{"start":23526.04,"end":23528.04,"text":"好啦"},{"start":23527.09,"end":23529.09,"text":"那現在我們連一年槍斃一位"},{"start":23529.09,"end":23531.09,"text":"也等不到"},{"start":23532.54,"end":23534.54,"text":"我真搞不懂這叫什麼"},{"start":23534.54,"end":23536.54,"text":"司法正義"},{"start":23536.22,"end":23538.22,"text":"帥院長我再一次提醒"},{"start":23539.24,"end":23541.24,"text":"這些主張廢死的人"},{"start":23541.24,"end":23543.24,"text":"就是集體的數位"},{"start":23543.24,"end":23545.24,"text":"他們我送他們八個字啦"},{"start":23545.24,"end":23547.24,"text":"假人假意"},{"start":23547.24,"end":23549.24,"text":"歧視道明"},{"start":23551.05,"end":23553.05,"text":"我希望你把這"},{"start":23556.4,"end":23558.4,"text":"在合法的程序下"},{"start":23558.4,"end":23560.4,"text":"那"},{"start":23560.4,"end":23562.4,"text":"我們就可以把他"},{"start":23562.91,"end":23564.91,"text":"憲法在這個部分"},{"start":23564.91,"end":23566.91,"text":"當初原始定義憲法"},{"start":23566.91,"end":23568.91,"text":"沒有主張廢死啦"},{"start":23568.91,"end":23570.91,"text":"美國日本中國"},{"start":23570.91,"end":23572.91,"text":"現在都還在執行"},{"start":23574.46,"end":23576.46,"text":"這個國家都比我們強"},{"start":23576.46,"end":23578.46,"text":"比我們大"},{"start":23585.59,"end":23587.59,"text":"謝謝王世堅委的質詢"},{"start":23587.59,"end":23589.59,"text":"謝謝主任院長相關部會首長備詢"},{"start":23589.59,"end":23591.59,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":23600.66,"end":23602.66,"text":"接下來我們請柯志恩委質詢"},{"start":23602.66,"end":23604.66,"text":"張宏錄委請準備"},{"start":23614.5,"end":23616.5,"text":"謝謝主席我們是不是請錯院長"},{"start":23616.5,"end":23618.5,"text":"麻煩再請柯院長備詢"},{"start":23625.99,"end":23627.99,"text":"各位好"},{"start":23627.99,"end":23629.99,"text":"我想最近幾天"},{"start":23629.99,"end":23631.99,"text":"台灣對於毒品這樣的議題"},{"start":23631.99,"end":23633.99,"text":"不管在我們的社會在我們政壇"},{"start":23633.99,"end":23635.99,"text":"都選取非常大的一個震撼"},{"start":23635.99,"end":23637.99,"text":"我想我們對於反毒"},{"start":23637.99,"end":23639.99,"text":"這個決心沒有模糊的空間"},{"start":23639.99,"end":23641.99,"text":"不准他進入校園跟社區"},{"start":23641.99,"end":23643.99,"text":"這樣的一個界限我們應該都是"},{"start":23643.99,"end":23645.99,"text":"守得住的這是無庸置疑的"},{"start":23645.99,"end":23647.99,"text":"對不對"},{"start":23647.99,"end":23649.99,"text":"那我想說政府口口實實"},{"start":23649.99,"end":23651.99,"text":"說是要反毒"},{"start":23651.99,"end":23653.99,"text":"然後你也有跨部會的一個防治"},{"start":23653.99,"end":23655.99,"text":"我們來看看審計部最近所公佈的"},{"start":23655.99,"end":23657.99,"text":"這個總決算的這個"},{"start":23657.99,"end":23659.99,"text":"審核報告裡面到底是怎麼樣"},{"start":23659.99,"end":23661.99,"text":"來打臉的"},{"start":23661.99,"end":23663.99,"text":"院長我要提醒這不是冷冰冰的數字"},{"start":23663.99,"end":23665.99,"text":"這是告訴我們的毒害"},{"start":23665.99,"end":23667.99,"text":"正在侵入我們的校園"},{"start":23667.99,"end":23669.99,"text":"而且快速的蔓延"},{"start":23669.99,"end":23671.99,"text":"而且它殘害的下一代"},{"start":23671.99,"end":23673.99,"text":"這是一個非常迫切的進行式"},{"start":23673.99,"end":23675.99,"text":"我們來看一下"},{"start":23675.99,"end":23677.99,"text":"衛福部的統計我們所通報的"},{"start":23677.99,"end":23679.99,"text":"我特別指出兒少"},{"start":23679.99,"end":23681.99,"text":"兒少是用第一級第二級非常嚴重"},{"start":23681.99,"end":23683.99,"text":"第一級第二級的毒品數"},{"start":23683.99,"end":23685.99,"text":"從112年的91人"},{"start":23685.99,"end":23687.99,"text":"現在上升到492"},{"start":23687.99,"end":23689.99,"text":"它的增幅是"},{"start":23689.99,"end":23691.99,"text":"440%"},{"start":23691.99,"end":23693.99,"text":"而且我更care的是"},{"start":23693.99,"end":23695.99,"text":"在學的兒少人數是在學校"},{"start":23695.99,"end":23697.99,"text":"念書的兒少人數"},{"start":23697.99,"end":23699.99,"text":"它是從110年的257上升到"},{"start":23699.99,"end":23701.99,"text":"591它的增幅是"},{"start":23701.99,"end":23703.99,"text":"超過129"},{"start":23703.99,"end":23705.99,"text":"然後呢兒少是用毒品的問題"},{"start":23705.99,"end":23707.99,"text":"非常的嚴重而且我只有"},{"start":23707.99,"end":23709.99,"text":"指出是一二級更不要說"},{"start":23709.99,"end":23711.99,"text":"三四級那根本就是數字更是可怕"},{"start":23711.99,"end":23713.99,"text":"你再來看一下"},{"start":23713.99,"end":23715.99,"text":"我們再犯的這樣子的通報率"},{"start":23715.99,"end":23717.99,"text":"也達到將近三成"},{"start":23717.99,"end":23719.99,"text":"再犯那這個12歲到"},{"start":23719.99,"end":23721.99,"text":"18歲少年他們的通報率"},{"start":23721.99,"end":23723.99,"text":"到這個三成一再的"},{"start":23723.99,"end":23725.99,"text":"一個沉淪那我們的關懷"},{"start":23725.99,"end":23727.99,"text":"我們的跨部會我們的反毒"},{"start":23727.99,"end":23729.99,"text":"這麼多的染毒的"},{"start":23729.99,"end":23731.99,"text":"孩子再回到學校再回到"},{"start":23731.99,"end":23733.99,"text":"社區它幾乎是沒有任何"},{"start":23733.99,"end":23735.99,"text":"可以把它接住的而且我也"},{"start":23735.99,"end":23737.99,"text":"去過這個矯正單位特別是"},{"start":23737.99,"end":23739.99,"text":"這個學校去參觀過他們幾乎是"},{"start":23739.99,"end":23741.99,"text":"所有入學的孩子大概"},{"start":23741.99,"end":23743.99,"text":"八成七都是用毒品的部分"},{"start":23743.99,"end":23745.99,"text":"而且很多是來自於施工的"},{"start":23745.99,"end":23747.99,"text":"家庭我覺得院長"},{"start":23747.99,"end":23749.99,"text":"這日的數字是不是說明"},{"start":23749.99,"end":23751.99,"text":"我們目前的反毒的政策"},{"start":23751.99,"end":23753.99,"text":"特別是對兒少部分是"},{"start":23753.99,"end":23755.99,"text":"徹底的一個失敗反毒的"},{"start":23755.99,"end":23757.99,"text":"努力是一天都不能停止"},{"start":23757.99,"end":23759.99,"text":"我可以提供最新就是禮拜"},{"start":23759.99,"end":23761.99,"text":"這個禮拜新的一份資料給委員"},{"start":23761.99,"end":23763.99,"text":"參考在那個資料裡面詳細"},{"start":23763.99,"end":23765.99,"text":"數字我現在沒有辦法背起來但是"},{"start":23765.99,"end":23767.99,"text":"初犯"},{"start":23767.99,"end":23769.99,"text":"反毒犯初犯的第一次犯的"},{"start":23769.99,"end":23771.99,"text":"是下降的"},{"start":23771.99,"end":23773.99,"text":"其他的數字有增加因為我們增加了"},{"start":23773.99,"end":23775.99,"text":"很多的唾液的篩檢"},{"start":23775.99,"end":23777.99,"text":"很多的增加檢驗的能量"},{"start":23777.99,"end":23779.99,"text":"所以提倡是有上升"},{"start":23779.99,"end":23781.99,"text":"但初犯是下降的"},{"start":23781.99,"end":23783.99,"text":"這個我可以提供給委員參考"},{"start":23783.99,"end":23785.99,"text":"但是你知道他整個的樣態"},{"start":23785.99,"end":23787.99,"text":"因為很多的樣態提出來"},{"start":23787.99,"end":23789.99,"text":"就是以毒養毒他們給"},{"start":23789.99,"end":23791.99,"text":"這些學生太多學生"},{"start":23791.99,"end":23793.99,"text":"在第一線工作做會很清楚免費"},{"start":23793.99,"end":23795.99,"text":"所以會誘導他"},{"start":23795.99,"end":23797.99,"text":"當他沒有辦法有錢的時候他必須要當他的"},{"start":23797.99,"end":23799.99,"text":"密封就是讓他去幫忙"},{"start":23799.99,"end":23801.99,"text":"送貨然後在班級在同學"},{"start":23801.99,"end":23803.99,"text":"當中不斷的流竄而且最重要"},{"start":23803.99,"end":23805.99,"text":"是很可惡的他們"},{"start":23805.99,"end":23807.99,"text":"完全是利用少年事件"},{"start":23807.99,"end":23809.99,"text":"處事法就是少事法的部分"},{"start":23809.99,"end":23811.99,"text":"因為這些未成年"},{"start":23811.99,"end":23813.99,"text":"他有保護的這個部分而且"},{"start":23813.99,"end":23815.99,"text":"他也沒有資料所以到時候你抓"},{"start":23815.99,"end":23817.99,"text":"的都是這些工具人背後的"},{"start":23817.99,"end":23819.99,"text":"那些淫汙者沒有辦法"},{"start":23819.99,"end":23821.99,"text":"所以這個東西的裡面他們一線"},{"start":23821.99,"end":23823.99,"text":"面交收穫發貨這個東西"},{"start":23823.99,"end":23825.99,"text":"才會變成我說再犯的比例"},{"start":23825.99,"end":23827.99,"text":"非常的高因為"},{"start":23827.99,"end":23829.99,"text":"這些人學生回到學校"},{"start":23829.99,"end":23831.99,"text":"裡面之後他的生活圈還是"},{"start":23831.99,"end":23833.99,"text":"跳脫不足這個部分"},{"start":23833.99,"end":23835.99,"text":"藥頭還有這些生活"},{"start":23835.99,"end":23837.99,"text":"圈完全一樣而且"},{"start":23837.99,"end":23839.99,"text":"院長成人再犯的比例"},{"start":23839.99,"end":23841.99,"text":"也達到45.9成人再犯"},{"start":23841.99,"end":23843.99,"text":"的比率所以你會發現這很多"},{"start":23843.99,"end":23845.99,"text":"細度的人就好像一個旋轉門"},{"start":23845.99,"end":23847.99,"text":"一樣他們被這個所謂緩起訴"},{"start":23847.99,"end":23849.99,"text":"之後重返社區"},{"start":23849.99,"end":23851.99,"text":"然後之後沒有這個所謂的"},{"start":23851.99,"end":23853.99,"text":"處遇"},{"start":23853.99,"end":23855.99,"text":"然後也沒有在心理上做一些的"},{"start":23855.99,"end":23857.99,"text":"支持所以他們只好跟這些"},{"start":23857.99,"end":23859.99,"text":"藥頭又綁在一起然後"},{"start":23859.99,"end":23861.99,"text":"彼此在這個社區當中就像個未爆彈"},{"start":23861.99,"end":23863.99,"text":"一樣這就是活生生的"},{"start":23863.99,"end":23865.99,"text":"事實而且最可怕的是我們"},{"start":23865.99,"end":23867.99,"text":"現在新型的毒品依托"},{"start":23867.99,"end":23869.99,"text":"彌製這在社區裡面因為他比較小"},{"start":23869.99,"end":23871.99,"text":"而且他不容易攜帶"},{"start":23871.99,"end":23873.99,"text":"所以你看這數據裡面去年"},{"start":23873.99,"end":23875.99,"text":"前九個月他的"},{"start":23875.99,"end":23877.99,"text":"查獲的量就爆增了一倍"},{"start":23877.99,"end":23879.99,"text":"而且你看毒駕"},{"start":23879.99,"end":23881.99,"text":"撞死警察撞死一些無辜的家庭"},{"start":23881.99,"end":23883.99,"text":"那所造成所少的一個家庭"},{"start":23883.99,"end":23885.99,"text":"的一個悲劇而且部長"},{"start":23885.99,"end":23887.99,"text":"院長我要特別提示我上次"},{"start":23887.99,"end":23889.99,"text":"詢詢的時候呢才從四級"},{"start":23889.99,"end":23891.99,"text":"依通名詞才從四級變成三級"},{"start":23891.99,"end":23893.99,"text":"到現在為止變成一級"},{"start":23893.99,"end":23895.99,"text":"經過了這麼多的時間"},{"start":23895.99,"end":23897.99,"text":"死了這麼多人之後才把九項"},{"start":23897.99,"end":23899.99,"text":"提升為一級而且把"},{"start":23899.99,"end":23901.99,"text":"拓葉的這個快篩劑目前"},{"start":23901.99,"end":23903.99,"text":"才納入這個時間已經耗掉"},{"start":23903.99,"end":23905.99,"text":"太多了難道這個過程當中"},{"start":23905.99,"end":23907.99,"text":"我們政府不應該檢討嗎"},{"start":23907.99,"end":23909.99,"text":"提升跟拓葉一次"},{"start":23909.99,"end":23911.99,"text":"數個月之前就已經納進來了"},{"start":23911.99,"end":23913.99,"text":"不是現在但是我們知道"},{"start":23913.99,"end":23915.99,"text":"溯源追查源頭是重要的"},{"start":23915.99,"end":23917.99,"text":"無論是製毒或販毒一定把"},{"start":23917.99,"end":23919.99,"text":"源頭那個抓出來當然是重要"},{"start":23919.99,"end":23921.99,"text":"我再製圖一個過去的例子"},{"start":23921.99,"end":23923.99,"text":"這個依通名詞從那個四級"},{"start":23923.99,"end":23925.99,"text":"三級像113年"},{"start":23925.99,"end":23927.99,"text":"變長從四級變三級到我們"},{"start":23927.99,"end":23929.99,"text":"110才變成一級這個過程"},{"start":23929.99,"end":23931.99,"text":"當中整個的速度"},{"start":23931.99,"end":23933.99,"text":"當中我提出來是有點太緩慢"},{"start":23933.99,"end":23935.99,"text":"這個速度是非常快的"},{"start":23935.99,"end":23937.99,"text":"這個依通名詞是因為我們"},{"start":23937.99,"end":23939.99,"text":"班南單位去化學到濫用這些化學物質"},{"start":23939.99,"end":23941.99,"text":"而趕緊提出來"},{"start":23941.99,"end":23943.99,"text":"就做毒品的一個方式"},{"start":23943.99,"end":23945.99,"text":"所以說我們在從一年內"},{"start":23945.99,"end":23947.99,"text":"一年內從一年多從"},{"start":23947.99,"end":23949.99,"text":"三級變二級然後"},{"start":23949.99,"end":23951.99,"text":"半年內從二級變一級"},{"start":23951.99,"end":23953.99,"text":"所以這個速度很快而且這些"},{"start":23953.99,"end":23955.99,"text":"對有關毒價的這些部分"},{"start":23955.99,"end":23957.99,"text":"我們也就修改在大院"},{"start":23957.99,"end":23959.99,"text":"那也都是因為死傷非常多"},{"start":23959.99,"end":23961.99,"text":"政府正視這個問題而且我同意"},{"start":23961.99,"end":23963.99,"text":"就是因為陳委員講我們是正視這個問題"},{"start":23963.99,"end":23965.99,"text":"所以我們才速度非常快"},{"start":23965.99,"end":23967.99,"text":"還是一樣嘛"},{"start":23967.99,"end":23969.99,"text":"所以說這裡面成人的再犯率"},{"start":23969.99,"end":23971.99,"text":"4成6這還是一個非常重要"},{"start":23971.99,"end":23973.99,"text":"所以我要求院長你是不是責成大家"},{"start":23973.99,"end":23975.99,"text":"在一個月之內能夠"},{"start":23975.99,"end":23977.99,"text":"跟我們實質的防堵跟藉營"},{"start":23977.99,"end":23979.99,"text":"改善的檢討報告一個月之內有沒有辦法提出"},{"start":23979.99,"end":23981.99,"text":"因為目前為止是非常多"},{"start":23981.99,"end":23983.99,"text":"大家非常關心這個問題"},{"start":23983.99,"end":23985.99,"text":"其實剛委員報告是現在適用的人口"},{"start":23985.99,"end":23987.99,"text":"新生的人口以及"},{"start":23987.99,"end":23989.99,"text":"我們再犯率就是一種"},{"start":23989.99,"end":23991.99,"text":"下降的一個趨勢"},{"start":23991.99,"end":23993.99,"text":"4成6還在擺在那個地方"},{"start":23993.99,"end":23995.99,"text":"部長你可以有你的說法4成6"},{"start":23995.99,"end":23997.99,"text":"就是擺在那個地方的再犯率"},{"start":23997.99,"end":23999.99,"text":"而且我要提出剛好衛福部長也在這個地方"},{"start":23999.99,"end":24001.99,"text":"新興毒品的這樣子的一個"},{"start":24001.99,"end":24003.99,"text":"氾濫其實一級已經提出警告"},{"start":24003.99,"end":24005.99,"text":"過去我們傳統"},{"start":24005.99,"end":24007.99,"text":"這個所謂美沙丼的替代療法"},{"start":24007.99,"end":24009.99,"text":"對於像目前氾濫的這個"},{"start":24009.99,"end":24011.99,"text":"有關新興毒品的咖啡包或是"},{"start":24011.99,"end":24013.99,"text":"伊托米紙是沒有療效的所以說"},{"start":24013.99,"end":24015.99,"text":"衛福部都針對這種新興毒品"},{"start":24015.99,"end":24017.99,"text":"目前已經沒有辦法做出太多"},{"start":24017.99,"end":24019.99,"text":"有沒有辦法提出具體的社區"},{"start":24019.99,"end":24021.99,"text":"藉製醫學指引"},{"start":24021.99,"end":24023.99,"text":"有沒有辦法"},{"start":24023.99,"end":24025.99,"text":"有跟委員說明過去的美沙丼"},{"start":24025.99,"end":24027.99,"text":"是針對鴉片類"},{"start":24027.99,"end":24029.99,"text":"他的一個替代治療"},{"start":24029.99,"end":24031.99,"text":"但是對於多元現在新興的毒品"},{"start":24031.99,"end":24033.99,"text":"我們已經有這個多元的"},{"start":24033.99,"end":24035.99,"text":"藥癮治療性的社區服務指引"},{"start":24035.99,"end":24037.99,"text":"這些已經有"},{"start":24037.99,"end":24039.99,"text":"什麼時候完成什麼時候給我報告還是現在已經有"},{"start":24039.99,"end":24041.99,"text":"現在已經有"},{"start":24041.99,"end":24043.99,"text":"已經有6家的民間機構"},{"start":24043.99,"end":24045.99,"text":"開始我們已經補助他們在發展"},{"start":24045.99,"end":24047.99,"text":"那麼另外也由國衛院發展了"},{"start":24047.99,"end":24049.99,"text":"二級毒品的密集式的"},{"start":24049.99,"end":24051.99,"text":"門診治療指引"},{"start":24051.99,"end":24053.99,"text":"我不管怎麼樣因為現在剛好大家對於"},{"start":24053.99,"end":24057.99,"text":"毒品的這樣子的氾濫還有新興毒品的防治的方法"},{"start":24057.99,"end":24059.99,"text":"大家都非常的關切所以院長請你責成"},{"start":24059.99,"end":24061.99,"text":"不管是如何"},{"start":24061.99,"end":24063.99,"text":"這個社區醫療系統的這樣子的"},{"start":24063.99,"end":24065.99,"text":"一個所謂的防治的指引"},{"start":24065.99,"end":24067.99,"text":"還有包括未來如何能夠避免這些事情"},{"start":24067.99,"end":24069.99,"text":"發生我們希望能夠更確實的"},{"start":24069.99,"end":24071.99,"text":"素質跟防範的一個方式"},{"start":24071.99,"end":24073.99,"text":"可以做到吧"},{"start":24073.99,"end":24075.99,"text":"我們有定期的在檢討這個事"},{"start":24075.99,"end":24077.99,"text":"我們透過治安會報等等"},{"start":24077.99,"end":24079.99,"text":"都有在檢討這個關於毒品藥癮的問題"},{"start":24079.99,"end":24081.99,"text":"那現在委員要求我們把"},{"start":24081.99,"end":24083.99,"text":"過去的討論出來的重點"},{"start":24083.99,"end":24085.99,"text":"給委員報告給委員"},{"start":24085.99,"end":24087.99,"text":"同時讓委員知道我們後續還會有什麼"},{"start":24087.99,"end":24089.99,"text":"發展性"},{"start":24089.99,"end":24091.99,"text":"我們希望大家所看到的"},{"start":24091.99,"end":24093.99,"text":"我也還是希望能夠用各種的方法把它檢測出來"},{"start":24093.99,"end":24095.99,"text":"可是這個數字太觸目驚心"},{"start":24095.99,"end":24097.99,"text":"會讓大家懷疑"},{"start":24097.99,"end":24099.99,"text":"政府在反毒裡面具體的做法"},{"start":24099.99,"end":24101.99,"text":"到底有沒有發揮它的成效"},{"start":24101.99,"end":24103.99,"text":"好 接下來"},{"start":24103.99,"end":24105.99,"text":"我要開始問一下"},{"start":24105.99,"end":24107.99,"text":"兩位部長可以回座"},{"start":24107.99,"end":24109.99,"text":"我現在要開始來問一些"},{"start":24109.99,"end":24111.99,"text":"有關於碳費的問題"},{"start":24111.99,"end":24113.99,"text":"我想碳費自從去年上路到"},{"start":24113.99,"end":24115.99,"text":"目前為止"},{"start":24115.99,"end":24117.99,"text":"5月已經繳納了大概49億了"},{"start":24117.99,"end":24119.99,"text":"那我想請問院長部長"},{"start":24119.99,"end":24121.99,"text":"這將近50億的"},{"start":24121.99,"end":24123.99,"text":"碳費的收入"},{"start":24123.99,"end":24125.99,"text":"到底要怎麼樣分配給各縣市"},{"start":24125.99,"end":24127.99,"text":"我們高雄到底可以分多少"},{"start":24127.99,"end":24129.99,"text":"報告委員這個不是分給各縣市的"},{"start":24129.99,"end":24131.99,"text":"我們產業整體"},{"start":24131.99,"end":24133.99,"text":"要減碳減能越多越好"},{"start":24133.99,"end":24135.99,"text":"但是你現在告訴我們"},{"start":24135.99,"end":24137.99,"text":"現在已經10月了"},{"start":24137.99,"end":24139.99,"text":"縣市政府有關於第三期減量的"},{"start":24139.99,"end":24141.99,"text":"執行方案"},{"start":24141.99,"end":24143.99,"text":"目前都已經刊登在你們氣候署的"},{"start":24143.99,"end":24145.99,"text":"公開平台上面"},{"start":24145.99,"end":24147.99,"text":"所以縣市所提報的方案"},{"start":24147.99,"end":24149.99,"text":"要多久才有辦法"},{"start":24149.99,"end":24151.99,"text":"核定完成"},{"start":24151.99,"end":24153.99,"text":"而且你們經費評估的標準"},{"start":24153.99,"end":24155.99,"text":"跟分配的標準又在什麼地方"},{"start":24155.99,"end":24157.99,"text":"報告委員這個其實是從企業來的"},{"start":24157.99,"end":24159.99,"text":"現在企業大概提了"},{"start":24159.99,"end":24161.99,"text":"2700多個減量方案"},{"start":24161.99,"end":24163.99,"text":"它的減碳的量成效"},{"start":24163.99,"end":24165.99,"text":"大概可以創造7100億的產值"},{"start":24165.99,"end":24167.99,"text":"現在我們大多數的費用"},{"start":24167.99,"end":24169.99,"text":"是來補助月能力有減碳的量"},{"start":24169.99,"end":24171.99,"text":"不是給縣市政府的"},{"start":24171.99,"end":24173.99,"text":"我為什麼要特別提到這個部分"},{"start":24173.99,"end":24175.99,"text":"因為你現在所看到的這個繳納"},{"start":24175.99,"end":24177.99,"text":"碳費的461個廠商當中"},{"start":24177.99,"end":24179.99,"text":"高雄大概佔20%"},{"start":24179.99,"end":24181.99,"text":"大概有94個廠"},{"start":24181.99,"end":24183.99,"text":"而且這是來自於我們化學原料"},{"start":24183.99,"end":24185.99,"text":"半導體還有合成橡膠"},{"start":24185.99,"end":24187.99,"text":"還有鋼鐵"},{"start":24187.99,"end":24189.99,"text":"你會發現這個十大的"},{"start":24189.99,"end":24191.99,"text":"碳費繳救的狀況當中"},{"start":24191.99,"end":24193.99,"text":"又以半導體繳的最多"},{"start":24193.99,"end":24195.99,"text":"而且在這個十大行業當中"},{"start":24195.99,"end":24197.99,"text":"至少有四大行業是在我們高雄"},{"start":24197.99,"end":24199.99,"text":"所以為什麼我關切這個問題"},{"start":24199.99,"end":24201.99,"text":"因為你可以看到我們這個產業貢獻很多"},{"start":24201.99,"end":24203.99,"text":"那當然你會有這個挹注資源"},{"start":24203.99,"end":24205.99,"text":"給這邊然後提供給地方"},{"start":24205.99,"end":24207.99,"text":"來做為加速減碳的工作"},{"start":24207.99,"end":24209.99,"text":"而且就這個部長來說的話"},{"start":24209.99,"end":24211.99,"text":"我們可能需要來做到這個部分"},{"start":24211.99,"end":24213.99,"text":"大概每年推動這個"},{"start":24213.99,"end":24215.99,"text":"那你現在只收到這個"},{"start":24215.99,"end":24217.99,"text":"49億的話其實距離還有一大段距離嗎"},{"start":24217.99,"end":24219.99,"text":"對我們不希望企業"},{"start":24219.99,"end":24221.99,"text":"就收到很大的壓力"},{"start":24221.99,"end":24223.99,"text":"尤其是在全世界變動當中"},{"start":24223.99,"end":24225.99,"text":"那目前由於科技業相對的比較好"},{"start":24225.99,"end":24227.99,"text":"所以委員科技業繳的比較多"},{"start":24227.99,"end":24229.99,"text":"半導體佔了四成以上"},{"start":24229.99,"end":24231.99,"text":"對但是這個部分就是我們看錯了"},{"start":24231.99,"end":24233.99,"text":"你目前來說我們碳費一般的費率"},{"start":24233.99,"end":24235.99,"text":"大概是一噸三百塊"},{"start":24235.99,"end":24237.99,"text":"可是在2030年的時候"},{"start":24237.99,"end":24239.99,"text":"大概就要變成1200到1800"},{"start":24239.99,"end":24241.99,"text":"這是很大的一個企業上面的一個負擔"},{"start":24241.99,"end":24243.99,"text":"所以我為什麼要提出這個問題來說"},{"start":24243.99,"end":24245.99,"text":"因為我們收到太多人"},{"start":24245.99,"end":24247.99,"text":"受這個碳成本的壓力很大"},{"start":24247.99,"end":24249.99,"text":"那有很多我們又需要發展半導體"},{"start":24249.99,"end":24251.99,"text":"然後特別是我們在場的"},{"start":24251.99,"end":24253.99,"text":"這個所謂中鋼石花金屬等等"},{"start":24253.99,"end":24255.99,"text":"所以這個減碳的成本對他們來說"},{"start":24255.99,"end":24257.99,"text":"是非常大的一個承重嘛"},{"start":24257.99,"end":24259.99,"text":"所以我們才說希望"},{"start":24259.99,"end":24261.99,"text":"你在這個碳費的收入部分裡面"},{"start":24261.99,"end":24263.99,"text":"能夠夠討量到我們"},{"start":24263.99,"end":24265.99,"text":"高雄的產業的一個結構"},{"start":24265.99,"end":24267.99,"text":"給我們這個減碳的負擔上面"},{"start":24267.99,"end":24269.99,"text":"起碼讓大家"},{"start":24269.99,"end":24271.99,"text":"壓力可以稍微減低"},{"start":24271.99,"end":24273.99,"text":"而且可以對於一些需要來做"},{"start":24273.99,"end":24275.99,"text":"這樣的一個中小企業裡面"},{"start":24275.99,"end":24277.99,"text":"碳費的配合上面能夠讓這個進行"},{"start":24277.99,"end":24279.99,"text":"低碳的轉型的輔導"},{"start":24279.99,"end":24281.99,"text":"這才是我們大家共同希望的吧"},{"start":24281.99,"end":24283.99,"text":"這是我真的提出來這個目標"},{"start":24283.99,"end":24285.99,"text":"謝謝委員這個其實我們針對企業的補助"},{"start":24285.99,"end":24287.99,"text":"大概佔了所有的費用大概一半"},{"start":24287.99,"end":24289.99,"text":"包含利息的補貼"},{"start":24289.99,"end":24291.99,"text":"所以他不是給地方政府做建設"},{"start":24291.99,"end":24293.99,"text":"是給企業能夠實際上的減碳為主"},{"start":24293.99,"end":24295.99,"text":"但是你還是要回歸到"},{"start":24295.99,"end":24297.99,"text":"既然是我們繳的"},{"start":24297.99,"end":24299.99,"text":"所以說這樣子的一個處理"},{"start":24299.99,"end":24301.99,"text":"我個人覺得這樣才是比較公平嘛"},{"start":24301.99,"end":24303.99,"text":"沒錯但是他還是回到企業的身上"},{"start":24303.99,"end":24305.99,"text":"並不是給地方政府拿來做建設"},{"start":24305.99,"end":24307.99,"text":"總而言之我覺得像受了50億"},{"start":24307.99,"end":24309.99,"text":"跟距離你剛剛說一年要500億"},{"start":24309.99,"end":24311.99,"text":"我覺得這個非常大的一個落差"},{"start":24311.99,"end":24313.99,"text":"委員我沒有500億是以前"},{"start":24313.99,"end":24315.99,"text":"還要碳稅的時候"},{"start":24315.99,"end":24317.99,"text":"事實上碳定價其實要從"},{"start":24317.99,"end":24319.99,"text":"有才能開始慢慢變好"},{"start":24319.99,"end":24321.99,"text":"所以我們沒有那麼快"},{"start":24321.99,"end":24323.99,"text":"總而言之我們那麼多的產業都在高雄"},{"start":24323.99,"end":24325.99,"text":"我們還是希望在這個定力的標準上面"},{"start":24325.99,"end":24327.99,"text":"能夠回歸到我們這邊的現市場的一個機制"},{"start":24327.99,"end":24329.99,"text":"我們的企業"},{"start":24329.99,"end":24331.99,"text":"我們的企業而不是用在別的地方"},{"start":24331.99,"end":24333.99,"text":"那接下來我要問一下星達"},{"start":24333.99,"end":24335.99,"text":"謝謝部長你可以回座了"},{"start":24335.99,"end":24337.99,"text":"我們現在來問一下這個星達的這個部分"},{"start":24337.99,"end":24339.99,"text":"這個院長我還是要提醒你"},{"start":24339.99,"end":24341.99,"text":"我上次也是在這邊提出我的疑問"},{"start":24341.99,"end":24343.99,"text":"因為當初台電承諾"},{"start":24343.99,"end":24345.99,"text":"在我們的星達這個部分"},{"start":24345.99,"end":24347.99,"text":"要以氣換煤"},{"start":24347.99,"end":24349.99,"text":"救濟要除疫"},{"start":24349.99,"end":24351.99,"text":"那我們都會非常的全力的配合"},{"start":24351.99,"end":24353.99,"text":"高雄相信都全力的配合"},{"start":24353.99,"end":24355.99,"text":"是"},{"start":24354.84,"end":24357.84,"text":"四部燃煤變成緊急備用"},{"start":24357.84,"end":24361.84,"text":"五部舊的燃氣還要再研議十年"},{"start":24361.84,"end":24363.84,"text":"那上次我問過院長"},{"start":24363.84,"end":24366.84,"text":"請給我一個拆除計畫的一個時程"},{"start":24366.84,"end":24368.84,"text":"院長也說好"},{"start":24368.84,"end":24370.84,"text":"但是這個燃煤我說煤喔不是氣喔"},{"start":24370.84,"end":24372.84,"text":"拆除的時程"},{"start":24372.84,"end":24374.84,"text":"到底計畫到哪裡了"},{"start":24374.84,"end":24376.84,"text":"院長你大概忘記我跟你提出的要求"},{"start":24376.84,"end":24378.84,"text":"不會高雄跟台中的問題"},{"start":24378.84,"end":24380.84,"text":"我們一樣的重視"},{"start":24380.84,"end":24382.84,"text":"那就實際上來講我們現在"},{"start":24382.84,"end":24384.84,"text":"台中從10月1號開始"},{"start":24384.84,"end":24386.84,"text":"他的第一座煙囪"},{"start":24386.84,"end":24388.84,"text":"那個燃煤機組的"},{"start":24388.84,"end":24390.84,"text":"好啦但是院長你上次答應我"},{"start":24390.84,"end":24392.84,"text":"你真的不除疫到底什麼時候要全部拆除"},{"start":24392.84,"end":24394.84,"text":"你可以告訴我煤那部分"},{"start":24394.84,"end":24396.84,"text":"高雄因為產業發展的極快"},{"start":24396.84,"end":24398.84,"text":"我們必須先以氣換煤"},{"start":24398.84,"end":24400.84,"text":"以氣換煤之後才能討論到說"},{"start":24400.84,"end":24402.84,"text":"如何把舊燃煤機組"},{"start":24402.84,"end":24403.84,"text":"可以把它拆除"},{"start":24403.84,"end":24405.84,"text":"重點就是你可以看看這個數據"},{"start":24405.84,"end":24407.84,"text":"我們備用的效益說實在的"},{"start":24407.84,"end":24409.84,"text":"其實是蠻低的"},{"start":24409.84,"end":24410.84,"text":"我們看一下就知道"},{"start":24410.84,"end":24412.84,"text":"而且你幹嘛留著造成恐慌"},{"start":24412.84,"end":24414.84,"text":"緊急備用機組啟用門檻很嚴格"},{"start":24414.84,"end":24416.84,"text":"非常嚴格但是一年"},{"start":24416.84,"end":24418.84,"text":"到底可以發多少"},{"start":24418.84,"end":24420.84,"text":"你看如果我們未來新搭的新舊燃氣"},{"start":24420.84,"end":24422.84,"text":"共十部喔"},{"start":24422.84,"end":24424.84,"text":"容量可以超過8700的"},{"start":24424.84,"end":24426.84,"text":"那個那個"},{"start":24426.84,"end":24428.84,"text":"電量系是夠的"},{"start":24428.84,"end":24430.84,"text":"那少了這幾部燃煤"},{"start":24430.84,"end":24432.84,"text":"不太影響到我們的供電"},{"start":24432.84,"end":24434.84,"text":"那你幹嘛不拆"},{"start":24434.84,"end":24436.84,"text":"我們家都已經夠了為什麼不拆"},{"start":24436.84,"end":24438.84,"text":"到時候留一個畫面給人家再看嘛"},{"start":24438.84,"end":24440.84,"text":"還是要徵求他用電的需求"},{"start":24440.84,"end":24442.84,"text":"跟韌性安全"},{"start":24442.84,"end":24444.84,"text":"韌性跟安全還是必要的"},{"start":24444.84,"end":24446.84,"text":"可是上次你同意大家"},{"start":24446.84,"end":24448.84,"text":"你同意大家說我們"},{"start":24448.84,"end":24450.84,"text":"很負責任的可以"},{"start":24450.84,"end":24452.84,"text":"來告訴大家說我們真的是"},{"start":24452.84,"end":24454.84,"text":"要來做這樣的一個處理"},{"start":24454.84,"end":24456.84,"text":"鄉親在那邊等"},{"start":24456.84,"end":24458.84,"text":"等到廢話不說你給延長十年"},{"start":24458.84,"end":24460.84,"text":"然後呢我也同意說"},{"start":24460.84,"end":24462.84,"text":"我們這個高科技產業的一個需求"},{"start":24462.84,"end":24464.84,"text":"但是呢早該探究"},{"start":24464.84,"end":24466.84,"text":"你把它延到2037"},{"start":24466.84,"end":24468.84,"text":"就算台電充這個總量的抵換"},{"start":24468.84,"end":24470.84,"text":"然後地方也很明白"},{"start":24470.84,"end":24472.84,"text":"這樣子的宰民"},{"start":24472.84,"end":24474.84,"text":"但是對鄉親來說他們還是會"},{"start":24474.84,"end":24476.84,"text":"好啦那我們就替一部響了"},{"start":24476.84,"end":24478.84,"text":"幫他們說一下話好不好我們搜集了這個意見"},{"start":24478.84,"end":24480.84,"text":"那是不是我們承受的吞了幾十年的"},{"start":24480.84,"end":24482.84,"text":"這個廢氣喔"},{"start":24482.84,"end":24484.84,"text":"起碼給代表鄉親提出比較大的"},{"start":24484.84,"end":24486.84,"text":"一個訴求啦"},{"start":24486.84,"end":24488.84,"text":"增烈這個研議特別的補償"},{"start":24488.84,"end":24490.84,"text":"保障我們像既有的六區的"},{"start":24490.84,"end":24492.84,"text":"回饋不要縮水"},{"start":24492.84,"end":24494.84,"text":"還有呢我們調高我們燃氣電協的"},{"start":24494.84,"end":24496.84,"text":"電協基金的這個費率可不可以"},{"start":24496.84,"end":24498.84,"text":"已經你還要跟人延遲"},{"start":24498.84,"end":24500.84,"text":"總要給人家一些更多的一個補償"},{"start":24500.84,"end":24502.84,"text":"這樣的鄉親的要求沒有辦法達到啦"},{"start":24502.84,"end":24504.84,"text":"首先我知道台電"},{"start":24504.84,"end":24506.84,"text":"已經用了相當大的經費"},{"start":24506.84,"end":24508.84,"text":"來從事它核心的進化"},{"start":24508.84,"end":24510.84,"text":"未來整個排放會降低"},{"start":24510.84,"end":24512.84,"text":"五成左右"},{"start":24512.84,"end":24514.84,"text":"那這個已經會對當地的這個空氣"},{"start":24514.84,"end":24516.84,"text":"造成比較好的一個協助幫助了"},{"start":24516.84,"end":24518.84,"text":"好我們電協基金的部分也會"},{"start":24518.84,"end":24520.84,"text":"跟附近的這些里民會互相溝通"},{"start":24520.84,"end":24522.84,"text":"我只是代表他們提出這樣的一個要求"},{"start":24522.84,"end":24524.84,"text":"也會給他們一個比較好的一個道路"},{"start":24524.84,"end":24526.84,"text":"因為人家本來認為說就可以"},{"start":24526.84,"end":24528.84,"text":"那個完全以氣代美然後就可以"},{"start":24528.84,"end":24530.84,"text":"全部弄完而且又要延"},{"start":24530.84,"end":24532.84,"text":"是報告委員因為現在"},{"start":24532.84,"end":24534.84,"text":"電力的發展高雄的確是"},{"start":24534.84,"end":24536.84,"text":"電力比較充足所以很多"},{"start":24536.84,"end":24538.84,"text":"的產業現在也都進駐到高雄"},{"start":24538.84,"end":24540.84,"text":"因為它這個也是帶來"},{"start":24540.84,"end":24542.84,"text":"比較正面的一些好處沒有問題"},{"start":24542.84,"end":24544.84,"text":"我們非常的歡迎啊但是我就說"},{"start":24544.84,"end":24546.84,"text":"應該有更科技的方法來"},{"start":24546.84,"end":24548.84,"text":"那個煤的部分已經有點過時了"},{"start":24548.84,"end":24550.84,"text":"所以說我才說"},{"start":24550.84,"end":24552.84,"text":"是否可以用更多的"},{"start":24552.84,"end":24554.84,"text":"氣來代替人"},{"start":24554.84,"end":24556.84,"text":"所以為什麼轉備用基本上就是"},{"start":24556.84,"end":24558.84,"text":"飛到緊急基本上是"},{"start":24558.84,"end":24560.84,"text":"不用的啦我就跟你說備用就是"},{"start":24560.84,"end":24562.84,"text":"老黨要給人家就是留"},{"start":24562.84,"end":24564.84,"text":"了一個口舌而且你們那個"},{"start":24564.84,"end":24566.84,"text":"它有一定的條件程序時間"},{"start":24566.84,"end":24568.84,"text":"很嚴苛嘛你很嚴苛"},{"start":24568.84,"end":24570.84,"text":"對不對然後你這樣加起來"},{"start":24570.84,"end":24572.84,"text":"我幫你算過了其實是夠的那"},{"start":24572.84,"end":24574.84,"text":"何必留了一個尾巴在那個地方"},{"start":24574.84,"end":24576.84,"text":"那就是增加韌性"},{"start":24576.84,"end":24578.84,"text":"燃氣的部分燃氣的部分"},{"start":24578.84,"end":24580.84,"text":"已經用了高達125億來"},{"start":24580.84,"end":24582.84,"text":"降低它的排放所以說啦"},{"start":24582.84,"end":24584.84,"text":"目標可以降低5%"},{"start":24584.84,"end":24586.84,"text":"那就是在跟台電號跟地方居民在"},{"start":24586.84,"end":24588.84,"text":"好好地溝通清楚然後答應人家要"},{"start":24588.84,"end":24590.84,"text":"研議的然後到2037年就好好把它"},{"start":24591.29,"end":24593.29,"text":"廢除啦這就是我的要求啦"},{"start":24593.29,"end":24595.29,"text":"好不好我們再跟經濟部門台電"},{"start":24595.29,"end":24597.29,"text":"詳細地來核算未來的時程"},{"start":24597.29,"end":24599.29,"text":"好好的接下來謝謝我們部長"},{"start":24599.29,"end":24601.29,"text":"我現在在最後"},{"start":24601.29,"end":24603.29,"text":"時間的我還來問一下我們有關"},{"start":24603.29,"end":24605.29,"text":"於高雄24小時新國際機場"},{"start":24605.29,"end":24607.29,"text":"的問題我們"},{"start":24607.29,"end":24609.29,"text":"應該是請我們的交通部來"},{"start":24609.29,"end":24611.29,"text":"請交通部長備詢"},{"start":24618.99,"end":24620.99,"text":"部長好我想在選舉到了"},{"start":24620.99,"end":24622.99,"text":"每個人都對於很多的政見"},{"start":24622.99,"end":24624.99,"text":"我認為說還要非常的實質在"},{"start":24624.99,"end":24626.99,"text":"討論不能畫大餅要非常的一個"},{"start":24626.99,"end":24628.99,"text":"務實那我想對於剛剛"},{"start":24628.99,"end":24630.99,"text":"大家都提到了我們我們店夠"},{"start":24630.99,"end":24632.99,"text":"那也就是因為這樣有非常"},{"start":24632.99,"end":24634.99,"text":"多的科技產業都要選擇選擇在"},{"start":24634.99,"end":24636.99,"text":"高雄但是大家面臨一個問題我想"},{"start":24636.99,"end":24638.99,"text":"部長也聽了非常的多了"},{"start":24638.99,"end":24640.99,"text":"就是高雄面臨這麼樣子這個產業"},{"start":24640.99,"end":24642.99,"text":"要突破我們認為交通是"},{"start":24642.99,"end":24644.99,"text":"非常的重要的所以每個人"},{"start":24644.99,"end":24646.99,"text":"幾乎都認為說要有一座"},{"start":24646.99,"end":24648.99,"text":"沒有消盡能夠支援半導體"},{"start":24648.99,"end":24650.99,"text":"而且供應鏈討論24小時"},{"start":24650.99,"end":24652.99,"text":"的國際機場對不對"},{"start":24652.99,"end":24654.99,"text":"這是你都可以聽到非常多人的聲音"},{"start":24654.99,"end":24656.99,"text":"我必須要說目前的"},{"start":24656.99,"end":24658.99,"text":"市長是公開主張"},{"start":24658.99,"end":24660.99,"text":"南新計劃要填海這個"},{"start":24660.99,"end":24662.99,"text":"造陸的最佳的方案事實上在"},{"start":24662.99,"e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"text":"放在我們的前鎮漁港讓"},{"start":25036.79,"end":25038.79,"text":"他被看到然後遠洋"},{"start":25038.79,"end":25040.79,"text":"的這樣子的一個我們很需要的"},{"start":25040.79,"end":25042.79,"text":"因為這是我們一個很大的主項"},{"start":25042.79,"end":25044.79,"text":"然後考慮到漁工的人權問題"},{"start":25044.79,"end":25046.79,"text":"沒有任何的問題但是無可否認"},{"start":25046.79,"end":25048.79,"text":"的因為你花的這些錢"},{"start":25048.79,"end":25050.79,"text":"仍然是有一些"},{"start":25050.79,"end":25052.79,"text":"沒有跟當初的預估是有一些"},{"start":25052.79,"end":25054.79,"text":"落差的所以我還是要問"},{"start":25054.79,"end":25056.79,"text":"上一次你們大正仗的"},{"start":25056.79,"end":25058.79,"text":"跑到我們這個前鎮漁港來做"},{"start":25058.79,"end":25060.79,"text":"對於硬體的設計還有"},{"start":25060.79,"end":25062.79,"text":"地方攤販的這個"},{"start":25062.79,"end":25064.79,"text":"所提出的反彈我相信部長"},{"start":25064.79,"end":25066.79,"text":"跟漁業署都已經非常的一個清楚"},{"start":25066.79,"end":25068.79,"text":"了然後你們開出了"},{"start":25068.79,"end":25070.79,"text":"攤商免管理費漁工"},{"start":25070.79,"end":25072.79,"text":"住宿補貼兩年的支票"},{"start":25072.79,"end":25074.79,"text":"我只想了解這些經費是"},{"start":25074.79,"end":25076.79,"text":"用到哪一些從來這個"},{"start":25076.79,"end":25078.79,"text":"錢是從哪裡來我問了老半天我都"},{"start":25078.79,"end":25080.79,"text":"我跟你們報告我們在我們的"},{"start":25080.79,"end":25082.79,"text":"相關的這個前鎮漁港"},{"start":25082.79,"end":25084.79,"text":"現在的經費裡面有匡列了六千"},{"start":25084.79,"end":25086.79,"text":"萬也是預估"},{"start":25086.79,"end":25088.79,"text":"在後面的營運的時候這些調整"},{"start":25088.79,"end":25090.79,"text":"所以我們兩年的"},{"start":25090.79,"end":25092.79,"text":"試營運的經費就是從這六千萬"},{"start":25092.79,"end":25094.79,"text":"去支出的 因為那是從哪個經費出來"},{"start":25094.79,"end":25096.79,"text":"從哪一項出來 就是前鎮漁港的"},{"start":25096.79,"end":25098.79,"text":"專案經費裡面 專案經費不是"},{"start":25098.79,"end":25100.79,"text":"用我們特別特別調列這些"},{"start":25100.79,"end":25102.79,"text":"經費不是好那你就請他們下面"},{"start":25102.79,"end":25104.79,"text":"的人因為他們跟我講說特別調列我一聽"},{"start":25104.79,"end":25106.79,"text":"我認性的特別調列我怕"},{"start":25106.79,"end":25108.79,"text":"我怕一地怎麼會有就是前鎮漁港"},{"start":25108.79,"end":25110.79,"text":"的經費裡面的六千萬我們有"},{"start":25110.79,"end":25112.79,"text":"匡列在建設完以後"},{"start":25112.79,"end":25114.79,"text":"需要去做一些調整的時候"},{"start":25114.79,"end":25116.79,"text":"我們當初提出了這個善後的預算"},{"start":25116.79,"end":25118.79,"text":"到底在哪裡 因為的確有需要"},{"start":25118.79,"end":25120.79,"text":"蓋得這麼豪華的一個"},{"start":25120.79,"end":25122.79,"text":"不是豪華就蓋花了這麼多"},{"start":25122.79,"end":25124.79,"text":"錢然後我們還是需要"},{"start":25124.79,"end":25126.79,"text":"做很多的一個改善所以你說"},{"start":25126.79,"end":25128.79,"text":"有撥了六千萬在這個地方"},{"start":25128.79,"end":25130.79,"text":"對我們是預先匡列"},{"start":25130.79,"end":25132.79,"text":"六千萬因為我們也預知到"},{"start":25132.79,"end":25134.79,"text":"整個的工程"},{"start":25134.79,"end":25136.79,"text":"做完以後可能做一些調整"},{"start":25136.79,"end":25138.79,"text":"所以包括試營運"},{"start":25138.79,"end":25140.79,"text":"的這個部分的兩年我們就用六千萬"},{"start":25140.79,"end":25142.79,"text":"去做支應 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我告訴你不敢怎麼進入"},{"start":25303.59,"end":25305.59,"text":"市場你那個免租金就是最大的"},{"start":25305.59,"end":25307.59,"text":"部分免租金就是讓很多人很願意"},{"start":25307.59,"end":25309.59,"text":"租金那早就把這個東西提出來"},{"start":25309.59,"end":25311.59,"text":"就不會有在什麼電充車的路線"},{"start":25311.59,"end":25313.59,"text":"等等之類這些還是需要改進"},{"start":25313.59,"end":25315.59,"text":"我們希望兩年勢力抑鬱當中"},{"start":25315.59,"end":25317.59,"text":"大家讓過一招之後知道他們的問題"},{"start":25317.59,"end":25319.59,"text":"所在大家共同來解決共同"},{"start":25319.59,"end":25321.59,"text":"面對問題我覺得這才是我們"},{"start":25321.59,"end":25323.59,"text":"我們已經在做了謝謝委員執政"},{"start":25323.59,"end":25325.59,"text":"我們已經在做了"},{"start":25325.59,"end":25327.59,"text":"現在這種兩年自營運的方式"},{"start":25327.59,"end":25329.59,"text":"來讓我們調整內部的"},{"start":25329.59,"end":25331.59,"text":"一些動線設備"},{"start":25331.59,"end":25333.59,"text":"兩年當中我們跟未來"},{"start":25333.59,"end":25335.59,"text":"台北高雄市政府跟漁會"},{"start":25335.59,"end":25337.59,"text":"是說說你就利用這個方法"},{"start":25337.59,"end":25339.59,"text":"能夠幫攤商解決他們最care的"},{"start":25339.59,"end":25341.59,"text":"問題能夠降低他們的這個部分"},{"start":25341.59,"end":25343.59,"text":"然後你剛剛所說的衛生問題"},{"start":25343.59,"end":25345.59,"text":"我沒有意見然後把動線還有把電動車"},{"start":25345.59,"end":25347.59,"text":"怎麼樣去走這些都是"},{"start":25347.59,"end":25349.59,"text":"我們所看到的我們就是來run run看"},{"start":25349.59,"end":25351.59,"text":"然後希望能夠滾動式的"},{"start":25351.59,"end":25353.59,"text":"把這些路線更符合我們攤商的需求"},{"start":25353.59,"end":25355.59,"text":"這才是當初我們給這麼多錢"},{"start":25355.59,"end":25357.59,"text":"大家希望的一個目標"},{"start":25357.59,"end":25359.59,"text":"我們會朝這個方面去處理"},{"start":25359.59,"end":25361.59,"text":"最後的話我還是要問一下"},{"start":25361.59,"end":25363.59,"text":"謝謝部長請回座"},{"start":25363.59,"end":25365.59,"text":"我想這個部分還是跟我們的捷運有關"},{"start":25365.59,"end":25367.59,"text":"我想我們交通部長還是要請上來一下"},{"start":25367.59,"end":25369.59,"text":"因為我們現在新版的才化法"},{"start":25369.59,"end":25371.59,"text":"落實地方自主"},{"start":25371.59,"end":25373.59,"text":"但是院長"},{"start":25373.59,"end":25375.59,"text":"我們的一般性補助款"},{"start":25375.59,"end":25377.59,"text":"跟我們的這些計畫性補助款"},{"start":25377.59,"end":25379.59,"text":"還是被大砍的非常多"},{"start":25379.59,"end":25381.59,"text":"我想大家跟你們要捷運的錢"},{"start":25381.59,"end":25383.59,"text":"不是只有高雄"},{"start":25383.59,"end":25385.59,"text":"我想台中台北都在跟交通部"},{"start":25385.59,"end":25387.59,"text":"要這個捷運的錢應該是沒有錯吧"},{"start":25387.59,"end":25389.59,"text":"每個都希望"},{"start":25389.59,"end":25391.59,"text":"所以各縣市都需要"},{"start":25391.59,"end":25393.59,"text":"但是我們市府跟我們反應"},{"start":25393.59,"end":25395.59,"text":"我們捷運因為我們不是只有一條"},{"start":25395.59,"end":25397.59,"text":"有黃線有小港林園還有我們鋼山鹿族"},{"start":25397.59,"end":25399.59,"text":"都是齊開啦"},{"start":25399.59,"end":25401.59,"text":"所以我們目前為止後續我們的缺口"},{"start":25401.59,"end":25403.59,"text":"是有到136億"},{"start":25403.59,"end":25405.59,"text":"那交通部開記者會說"},{"start":25405.59,"end":25407.59,"text":"你沒有你就是依照"},{"start":25407.59,"end":25409.59,"text":"的速度等等之內你已經給我們"},{"start":25409.59,"end":25411.59,"text":"145億是全台第二位"},{"start":25411.59,"end":25413.59,"text":"從以前到現在為止交通部補助"},{"start":25413.59,"end":25415.59,"text":"地方的捷運經費從來沒有"},{"start":25415.59,"end":25417.59,"text":"讓地方的工程延宕過"},{"start":25417.59,"end":25419.59,"text":"所以說我們現在目前為止"},{"start":25419.59,"end":25421.59,"text":"不會因為統籌分配"},{"start":25421.59,"end":25423.59,"text":"做任何的事情影響到"},{"start":25423.59,"end":25425.59,"text":"我們所謂捷運的施工"},{"start":25425.59,"end":25427.59,"text":"所以各縣市裡面所跟交通部"},{"start":25427.59,"end":25429.59,"text":"要的都已經算出來幾億"},{"start":25429.59,"end":25431.59,"text":"交通部都會"},{"start":25444.36,"end":25446.36,"text":"好謝謝柯志恩委員的質詢"},{"start":25446.36,"end":25448.36,"text":"謝謝卓院長各相關部會首長的備詢"},{"start":25448.36,"end":25450.36,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":25460.9,"end":25462.9,"text":"我們接下來請張宏祿委員質詢"},{"start":25462.9,"end":25464.9,"text":"尤浩委員請準備"},{"start":25480.83,"end":25482.83,"text":"我先請交通部長"},{"start":25483.22,"end":25485.22,"text":"我們請交通部長備詢"},{"start":25496.59,"end":25498.59,"text":"委員好"},{"start":25498.59,"end":25502.59,"text":"陳部長其實我已經質詢這個議題好幾次了"},{"start":25502.59,"end":25504.59,"text":"就是我們的進勞卡"},{"start":25506.32,"end":25508.32,"text":"這個高鐵"},{"start":25508.32,"end":25510.32,"text":"它能不能搭高鐵"},{"start":25510.32,"end":25514.32,"text":"這個我相信上次你也好有質詢過了"},{"start":25514.32,"end":25516.32,"text":"沒錯"},{"start":25515.91,"end":25517.91,"text":"進度到底如何"},{"start":25517.91,"end":25519.91,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":25519.91,"end":25521.91,"text":"您關心的不只是高鐵啦"},{"start":25521.91,"end":25523.91,"text":"其實台鐵你也滿關心"},{"start":25523.91,"end":25525.91,"text":"台鐵已經完成了"},{"start":25525.91,"end":25527.91,"text":"台鐵我們部一部完成"},{"start":25527.91,"end":25529.91,"text":"現在已經完成了"},{"start":25529.91,"end":25531.91,"text":"那高鐵的部分是這樣"},{"start":25531.91,"end":25533.91,"text":"因為高鐵它的票價相對是比較高的"},{"start":25533.91,"end":25535.91,"text":"所以他們現在開放的都是可自動儲值的"},{"start":25535.91,"end":25537.91,"text":"這個票卡"},{"start":25537.91,"end":25539.91,"text":"他們才有辦法來說"},{"start":25539.91,"end":25541.91,"text":"因為有時候如果是單一卡"},{"start":25541.91,"end":25543.91,"text":"如果裡面只有一千塊"},{"start":25543.91,"end":25545.91,"text":"他可能就不能用"},{"start":25545.91,"end":25547.91,"text":"所以目前是開放到這種程度"},{"start":25547.91,"end":25549.91,"text":"你可能還沒有年紀大到可以用進勞卡"},{"start":25552.09,"end":25554.09,"text":"進勞卡也是可以儲值的喔"},{"start":25554.99,"end":25556.99,"text":"他也是可以儲值的喔"},{"start":25556.99,"end":25558.99,"text":"其實我們跟您上次質詢完之後"},{"start":25558.99,"end":25560.99,"text":"我們有跟高鐵公司開過會"},{"start":25560.99,"end":25562.99,"text":"有討論這個議題"},{"start":25562.99,"end":25564.99,"text":"我們會朝向未來"},{"start":25564.99,"end":25566.99,"text":"會朝向開放的方向"},{"start":25566.99,"end":25568.99,"text":"這個沒有問題"},{"start":25568.99,"end":25570.99,"text":"但我們目前的運量坦白講是比較緊"},{"start":25570.99,"end":25572.99,"text":"所以高鐵公司是希望說明年七月之後"},{"start":25572.99,"end":25574.99,"text":"如果是新車上線之後"},{"start":25574.99,"end":25576.99,"text":"運量充足的時候"},{"start":25576.99,"end":25578.99,"text":"他們會朝這個方向來做"},{"start":25578.99,"end":25580.99,"text":"配合委員所質詢的方向"},{"start":25580.99,"end":25582.99,"text":"部長"},{"start":25583.22,"end":25585.22,"text":"有一個我們先來說"},{"start":25585.22,"end":25587.22,"text":"其實各縣市"},{"start":25587.22,"end":25589.22,"text":"現在進勞卡的點數"},{"start":25589.22,"end":25591.22,"text":"每個縣市都增加"},{"start":25591.15,"end":25593.15,"text":"都增加了很多"},{"start":25593.15,"end":25595.15,"text":"尤其明年有很多新的縣市首長"},{"start":25595.15,"end":25597.15,"text":"他們現在政見"},{"start":25598.44,"end":25600.44,"text":"也都增加了"},{"start":25600.44,"end":25602.44,"text":"像新北"},{"start":25602.44,"end":25604.44,"text":"蘇巧惠"},{"start":25604.44,"end":25606.44,"text":"他也是當選的話將把新北進勞卡"},{"start":25606.44,"end":25608.44,"text":"每個月點數提高到1000點"},{"start":25608.44,"end":25610.44,"text":"對不對"},{"start":25611.32,"end":25613.32,"text":"林國章他也說"},{"start":25613.32,"end":25615.32,"text":"每個月也是1000點"},{"start":25615.32,"end":25617.32,"text":"很多縣市都已經"},{"start":25617.32,"end":25619.32,"text":"是在這樣了"},{"start":25619.32,"end":25621.32,"text":"所以在這樣情況之下"},{"start":25621.32,"end":25623.32,"text":"我們擴大進勞卡點數的用途"},{"start":25623.32,"end":25625.32,"text":"其實是在必行"},{"start":25625.32,"end":25627.32,"text":"那當初我為什麼"},{"start":25627.32,"end":25629.32,"text":"一直推"},{"start":25629.02,"end":25631.02,"text":"推這個台鐵可以搭進勞卡"},{"start":25631.02,"end":25633.02,"text":"是我從我們新北"},{"start":25633.02,"end":25635.02,"text":"我們的平溪莊溪我看到了"},{"start":25635.02,"end":25637.02,"text":"很多老人家"},{"start":25637.02,"end":25639.02,"text":"他其實都是坐火車進出的"},{"start":25640.65,"end":25642.65,"text":"他是坐火車去看病"},{"start":25642.65,"end":25644.65,"text":"坐火車去買東西"},{"start":25644.51,"end":25646.51,"text":"我們從那裡看出來有這個需求"},{"start":25647.7,"end":25649.7,"text":"那我們也努力很多年啊"},{"start":25649.85,"end":25651.85,"text":"沒"},{"start":25650.91,"end":25652.91,"text":"台鐵應該比高鐵複雜多吧"},{"start":25652.91,"end":25654.91,"text":"對他的票證系統相對複雜"},{"start":25654.91,"end":25656.91,"text":"那這個部分已經克服了"},{"start":25656.91,"end":25658.91,"text":"那也跟委員報告高鐵的票證系統"},{"start":25658.91,"end":25660.91,"text":"不是問題"},{"start":25660.91,"end":25662.91,"text":"目前看起來不是問題"},{"start":25662.91,"end":25664.91,"text":"而是他的容量的問題"},{"start":25664.91,"end":25666.91,"text":"那這個部分委員我在這邊也跟您承諾"},{"start":25666.91,"end":25668.91,"text":"這個方向我們會來做"},{"start":25668.91,"end":25670.91,"text":"只是說時間上面的問題"},{"start":25671.19,"end":25673.19,"text":"我這樣說啦"},{"start":25673.19,"end":25675.19,"text":"部長你說的我理解"},{"start":25675.19,"end":25677.19,"text":"我也知道啦"},{"start":25677.19,"end":25679.19,"text":"但你說的跟我要的不衝突"},{"start":25679.19,"end":25681.19,"text":"完全不衝突"},{"start":25681.19,"end":25683.19,"text":"我在這邊講具體的"},{"start":25683.19,"end":25685.19,"text":"我已經質詢了"},{"start":25685.19,"end":25687.19,"text":"你當部長我已經質詢了幾次了"},{"start":25687.19,"end":25689.19,"text":"那你如果照你這樣子說的話"},{"start":25689.19,"end":25691.19,"text":"我們先把它建置完成"},{"start":25692.93,"end":25694.93,"text":"你現在就承諾你先建置完成啊"},{"start":25694.93,"end":25696.93,"text":"那你說你等新的車廂到"},{"start":25696.93,"end":25698.93,"text":"新的車廂我們再來開放"},{"start":25698.93,"end":25700.93,"text":"難道你要等新的車廂來"},{"start":25700.93,"end":25702.93,"text":"你再來建置嗎"},{"start":25702.93,"end":25704.93,"text":"你越晚建置是越花越多錢"},{"start":25704.93,"end":25706.93,"text":"你們給我的資料"},{"start":25706.93,"end":25708.93,"text":"2024年"},{"start":25708.93,"end":25710.93,"text":"整個硬體費用7000萬"},{"start":25712.72,"end":25714.72,"text":"2025年變9400萬"},{"start":25715.98,"end":25717.98,"text":"那如果2026呢"},{"start":25717.98,"end":25719.98,"text":"要不要變成商議了"},{"start":25721.45,"end":25723.45,"text":"早一點做替台灣省"},{"start":25723.45,"end":25725.45,"text":"那麼多錢啊"},{"start":25725.45,"end":25727.45,"text":"還是說高鐵的錢很多"},{"start":25727.45,"end":25729.45,"text":"委員這個建議相當好"},{"start":25729.45,"end":25731.45,"text":"如果軟體的部分跟硬體的整合的部分"},{"start":25731.45,"end":25733.45,"text":"我們可以先做我們就先來做"},{"start":25733.45,"end":25735.45,"text":"如果這個方向我們是希望說"},{"start":25735.45,"end":25737.45,"text":"運量起來的時候我們就會開放的話"},{"start":25737.45,"end":25739.45,"text":"我們的這個票證系統的整合"},{"start":25739.45,"end":25741.45,"text":"可以先來做"},{"start":25741.45,"end":25743.45,"text":"我覺得啦"},{"start":25743.5,"end":25745.5,"text":"跟台鐵是一樣的啦"},{"start":25745.5,"end":25747.5,"text":"台鐵我那時候"},{"start":25747.5,"end":25749.5,"text":"最後也是要求他你把硬體做好"},{"start":25750.62,"end":25752.62,"text":"人家各縣市要不要做"},{"start":25752.62,"end":25754.62,"text":"人家會找你"},{"start":25754.54,"end":25756.54,"text":"現在呢 全台灣哪個縣市"},{"start":25757.37,"end":25759.37,"text":"那個金牢卡不能搭台鐵"},{"start":25759.74,"end":25761.74,"text":"有哪一個縣市不能搭台鐵"},{"start":25761.74,"end":25763.74,"text":"我們現在已經有開放了"},{"start":25763.74,"end":25765.74,"text":"不是 對我知道"},{"start":25765.74,"end":25767.74,"text":"經過我很多的努力嘛"},{"start":25767.74,"end":25769.74,"text":"那你說還有哪一個縣市"},{"start":25771.28,"end":25773.28,"text":"金牢卡不能搭台鐵的"},{"start":25773.28,"end":25775.28,"text":"我印象中是還有"},{"start":25775.28,"end":25777.28,"text":"我印象中是還有但哪一個縣市"},{"start":25777.28,"end":25779.28,"text":"應該沒有了啦"},{"start":25779.28,"end":25781.28,"text":"都可以啦"},{"start":25781.28,"end":25783.28,"text":"只是點數的多少而已"},{"start":25783.28,"end":25785.28,"text":"每個縣市開放的點數多少"},{"start":25785.28,"end":25787.28,"text":"所以"},{"start":25787.28,"end":25789.28,"text":"我今天在這邊"},{"start":25789.54,"end":25791.54,"text":"真的要跟部長拜託一下"},{"start":25791.54,"end":25793.54,"text":"這個"},{"start":25793.54,"end":25795.54,"text":"我們先把它建置完成"},{"start":25796.05,"end":25798.05,"text":"建置跟開放使用"},{"start":25798.05,"end":25800.05,"text":"其實中間還是會有"},{"start":25800.05,"end":25802.05,"text":"時間差嘛"},{"start":25802.05,"end":25804.05,"text":"對不對 那能不能在這邊"},{"start":25804.05,"end":25806.05,"text":"能不能具體的承諾"},{"start":25806.05,"end":25808.05,"text":"到底能不能"},{"start":25808.05,"end":25810.05,"text":"把它先把它建置好"},{"start":25810.05,"end":25812.05,"text":"委員您的建議相當好"},{"start":25812.05,"end":25814.05,"text":"那我就朝這個方向"},{"start":25814.05,"end":25816.05,"text":"來去跟高鐵公司來"},{"start":25816.05,"end":25818.05,"text":"協調 請他們先把"},{"start":25818.05,"end":25820.05,"text":"硬體的部分還有軟體的整合的部分"},{"start":25820.05,"end":25822.05,"text":"把它先做起來"},{"start":25822.05,"end":25824.05,"text":"那以便未來我們真正要開放"},{"start":25824.05,"end":25826.05,"text":"讓進勞卡可以搭成高鐵的時候"},{"start":25826.05,"end":25828.05,"text":"可以馬上快速的來上線"},{"start":25828.05,"end":25830.05,"text":"那大概要多久時間"},{"start":25830.05,"end":25832.05,"text":"這個我需要跟高鐵公司來討論一下"},{"start":25832.05,"end":25834.05,"text":"因為實際工程的時程大概多長"},{"start":25834.05,"end":25836.05,"text":"這個我不曉得"},{"start":25836.05,"end":25838.05,"text":"我需要跟他們討論一下"},{"start":25838.05,"end":25840.05,"text":"好"},{"start":25840.05,"end":25842.05,"text":"但我覺得不可能超過一年吧"},{"start":25843.27,"end":25845.27,"text":"我覺得不會啦"},{"start":25845.27,"end":25847.27,"text":"一定不會吧"},{"start":25847.27,"end":25849.27,"text":"我們台鐵之前的經驗沒有超過一年"},{"start":25849.27,"end":25851.27,"text":"所以我認為高鐵的效率"},{"start":25851.27,"end":25853.27,"text":"應該也不會超過一年"},{"start":25853.27,"end":25855.27,"text":"高鐵比台鐵簡單多了"},{"start":25855.94,"end":25857.94,"text":"簡單多了"},{"start":25858.59,"end":25860.59,"text":"很多長者去買進勞票"},{"start":25860.59,"end":25862.59,"text":"他也是買啊"},{"start":25862.59,"end":25864.59,"text":"對不對"},{"start":25864.59,"end":25866.59,"text":"我覺得這個程序啊"},{"start":25866.59,"end":25868.59,"text":"差很多 系統也簡單多了"},{"start":25868.59,"end":25870.59,"text":"然後台灣號稱AI大國"},{"start":25870.59,"end":25872.59,"text":"這個只要想要做"},{"start":25872.59,"end":25874.59,"text":"我們當初"},{"start":25874.59,"end":25876.59,"text":"面對COVID-19的時候"},{"start":25876.59,"end":25878.59,"text":"我們行政院幾天就可以寫出來"},{"start":25878.59,"end":25880.59,"text":"這個全台灣發口罩的"},{"start":25881.79,"end":25883.79,"text":"像這個"},{"start":25883.79,"end":25885.79,"text":"我覺得我如果要做"},{"start":25885.79,"end":25887.79,"text":"我三個月內就可以把它做好了"},{"start":25887.61,"end":25889.61,"text":"這個應該不困難"},{"start":25889.61,"end":25891.61,"text":"所以也跟您報告"},{"start":25891.61,"end":25893.61,"text":"這個沒有問題"},{"start":25893.61,"end":25895.61,"text":"如果可以的話趕快啟動"},{"start":25895.61,"end":25897.61,"text":"硬體跟軟體的票務"},{"start":25897.61,"end":25899.61,"text":"系統的整合"},{"start":25899.61,"end":25901.61,"text":"我拜託"},{"start":25901.61,"end":25903.61,"text":"就是先把票務系統你先把它用好"},{"start":25903.61,"end":25905.61,"text":"用好之後你要開放"},{"start":25905.61,"end":25907.61,"text":"隨時開放啊"},{"start":25907.61,"end":25909.61,"text":"不然永遠在這邊"},{"start":25909.61,"end":25911.61,"text":"你用好了之後人家各縣市"},{"start":25911.61,"end":25913.61,"text":"就可以去處理了"},{"start":25913.61,"end":25915.61,"text":"他如果願意讓他來做的"},{"start":25915.61,"end":25917.61,"text":"也必須要各縣市同意"},{"start":25917.61,"end":25919.61,"text":"台鐵也是同樣的狀況"},{"start":25919.61,"end":25921.61,"text":"因為我們當時花比較多的時間是跟地方政府的整合"},{"start":25921.61,"end":25923.61,"text":"他們要必須同意"},{"start":25923.61,"end":25925.61,"text":"那必須把他們的系統也納進來之後才有辦法"},{"start":25925.61,"end":25927.61,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":25927.61,"end":25929.61,"text":"各縣市沒有人會不同意的"},{"start":25929.61,"end":25931.61,"text":"只要一個縣市有的話"},{"start":25931.61,"end":25933.61,"text":"哪個縣市敢不敢"},{"start":25933.61,"end":25935.61,"text":"目前看起來大家同意的都想要"},{"start":25935.61,"end":25937.61,"text":"現在大家都想要"},{"start":25937.61,"end":25939.61,"text":"所以我只是說"},{"start":25939.61,"end":25941.61,"text":"能不能在這邊"},{"start":25941.61,"end":25943.61,"text":"能夠具體的說一下"},{"start":25943.61,"end":25945.61,"text":"能夠承諾"},{"start":25945.61,"end":25947.61,"text":"是不是先把它建置完成"},{"start":25947.61,"end":25949.61,"text":"我們會來做"},{"start":25949.61,"end":25951.61,"text":"這個沒有問題"},{"start":25951.61,"end":25953.61,"text":"我還是要這麼說我會去跟高鐵公司來溝通"},{"start":25953.61,"end":25955.61,"text":"因為畢竟他是上市櫃公司"},{"start":25955.61,"end":25957.61,"text":"我不能在這邊下達指令"},{"start":25957.61,"end":25959.61,"text":"我會用溝通的方式請他們來協助"},{"start":25960.13,"end":25962.13,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":25962.08,"end":25964.08,"text":"政府如果要做就做"},{"start":25964.08,"end":25966.08,"text":"台鐵"},{"start":25966.08,"end":25968.08,"text":"高鐵的董事長誰派的"},{"start":25968.08,"end":25970.08,"text":"光古是最多的吧"},{"start":25970.08,"end":25972.08,"text":"我說高鐵"},{"start":25972.08,"end":25974.08,"text":"他還是有股票上市"},{"start":25974.08,"end":25976.08,"text":"沒有錯"},{"start":25976.08,"end":25978.08,"text":"但我覺得那個"},{"start":25978.08,"end":25980.08,"text":"不是理由"},{"start":25979.7,"end":25981.7,"text":"難道高鐵就不要賺錢"},{"start":25981.7,"end":25983.7,"text":"報告"},{"start":25983.7,"end":25985.7,"text":"報告委員我相信高鐵"},{"start":25985.7,"end":25987.7,"text":"也會很歡迎這樣子的政策方向"},{"start":25987.7,"end":25989.7,"text":"所以他們一定會答應"},{"start":25989.7,"end":25991.7,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":25991.7,"end":25993.7,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":25993.7,"end":25995.7,"text":"如果他不答應的話"},{"start":25995.7,"end":25997.7,"text":"我的脾氣雖然很好"},{"start":25997.7,"end":25999.7,"text":"但我也快忍不住了"},{"start":25999.7,"end":26001.7,"text":"我會跟他們溝通"},{"start":26001.7,"end":26003.7,"text":"我希望能夠具體"},{"start":26003.7,"end":26005.7,"text":"把它做好"},{"start":26005.7,"end":26007.7,"text":"那再來"},{"start":26007.7,"end":26009.7,"text":"這個我們太阪輕軌"},{"start":26009.7,"end":26011.7,"text":"關於社後支線的這件事"},{"start":26011.7,"end":26013.7,"text":"我相信部長你也很清楚"},{"start":26013.7,"end":26015.7,"text":"這個你非常的清楚"},{"start":26015.7,"end":26017.7,"text":"其實社後支線"},{"start":26017.7,"end":26019.7,"text":"之前的交通部"},{"start":26019.7,"end":26021.7,"text":"在王國材部長的時候"},{"start":26021.7,"end":26023.7,"text":"跟地方其實"},{"start":26023.7,"end":26025.7,"text":"早就有一個共識的版本了"},{"start":26025.7,"end":26027.7,"text":"這你應該也非常清楚"},{"start":26027.7,"end":26029.7,"text":"那新北市不知道為什麼"},{"start":26029.7,"end":26031.7,"text":"一直在拖"},{"start":26031.7,"end":26033.7,"text":"然後又弄出了好幾個版本出來"},{"start":26033.7,"end":26035.7,"text":"就是在拖"},{"start":26035.51,"end":26037.51,"text":"那他們現在"},{"start":26037.51,"end":26039.51,"text":"又爆了他們的"},{"start":26039.51,"end":26041.51,"text":"計畫上來了"},{"start":26041.51,"end":26043.51,"text":"可行性研究的修正"},{"start":26043.51,"end":26045.51,"text":"有報上來了"},{"start":26045.51,"end":26047.51,"text":"那他還是有很多"},{"start":26047.51,"end":26049.51,"text":"沒有針對"},{"start":26049.8,"end":26051.8,"text":"之前交通部跟他們講的"},{"start":26051.8,"end":26053.8,"text":"這一個方案"},{"start":26053.8,"end":26055.8,"text":"有共識的方案"},{"start":26056.7,"end":26058.7,"text":"未來新建"},{"start":26058.83,"end":26062.83,"text":"他覺得是未來新建"},{"start":26062.83,"end":26064.83,"text":"其實我覺得"},{"start":26064.83,"end":26066.83,"text":"部長你應該也非常非常的清楚"},{"start":26066.83,"end":26068.83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那就請院長"},{"start":26629.33,"end":26631.33,"text":"是不是也回覆一下"},{"start":26631.33,"end":26633.33,"text":"請院長請教"},{"start":26633.33,"end":26635.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26635.33,"end":26637.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26637.33,"end":26639.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26639.33,"end":26641.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26641.33,"end":26643.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26643.33,"end":26645.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26645.33,"end":26647.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26647.33,"end":26649.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26649.33,"end":26651.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26651.33,"end":26653.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26653.33,"end":26655.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26655.33,"end":26657.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26657.33,"end":26659.33,"text":"請教"},{"start":26647.41,"end":26649.41,"text":"先前的虧損有所彌平"},{"start":26649.41,"end":26651.41,"text":"而且對未來的財政體制"},{"start":26651.41,"end":26653.41,"text":"能夠稍稍的支撐的話"},{"start":26653.41,"end":26655.41,"text":"這個訊息 我想電價審議委員會"},{"start":26655.41,"end":26657.41,"text":"在審議的時候"},{"start":26657.41,"end":26659.41,"text":"會以民生穩定物價穩定的優先考量"},{"start":26659.41,"end":26661.41,"text":"那就有助於"},{"start":26661.41,"end":26663.41,"text":"大家在討論電價的時候"},{"start":26663.41,"end":26665.41,"text":"是不是會趨勢比較保守"},{"start":26665.41,"end":26667.41,"text":"讓台電繼續承受更多的責任"},{"start":26667.41,"end":26669.41,"text":"這個是未來電價審議委員會的公認"},{"start":26669.41,"end":26671.41,"text":"那有沒有辦法以此為目標"},{"start":26672.4,"end":26673.2,"text":"我們當然希望"},{"start":26674.24,"end":26675.800000000003,"text":"這個專家預算之後"},{"start":26675.800000000003,"end":26677.800000000003,"text":"讓台電能夠撐住在這裡"},{"start":26677.800000000003,"end":26680.5,"text":"他的財務狀況不會發生極大的困難"},{"start":26680.5,"end":26682,"text":"他只要能夠繼續的營運"},{"start":26682,"end":26683.74,"text":"那國家會來支持他"},{"start":26683.74,"end":26684.940000000002,"text":"那民生的問題"},{"start":26684.940000000002,"end":26686.54,"text":"又列為優先的考量"},{"start":26686.54,"end":26688.140000000003,"text":"讓民生穩定 物價穩定"},{"start":26688.140000000003,"end":26689.140000000003,"text":"好 院長"},{"start":26689.140000000003,"end":26690.9,"text":"其實記得在第一會期的時候"},{"start":26690.9,"end":26692.140000000003,"text":"總質詢的時候"},{"start":26692.140000000003,"end":26693.600000000002,"text":"前部長有提到"},{"start":26693.600000000002,"end":26694.74,"text":"到時候還是會"},{"start":26694.74,"end":26696.54,"text":"部長會稍後還給您批"},{"start":26696.54,"end":26698.4,"text":"那所以電價審議的結論"},{"start":26698.4,"end":26700.800000000003,"text":"到時候還是你這邊會過最後一關"},{"start":26700.800000000003,"end":26701.440000000002,"text":"那我是覺得"},{"start":26701.440000000002,"end":26703.74,"text":"2027年是否能夠維持電價不漲"},{"start":26703.74,"end":26705.34,"text":"那尤其在711億"},{"start":26705.34,"end":26707.54,"text":"那來支持台電的情況之下"},{"start":26707.54,"end":26709.140000000003,"text":"我覺得在方向上"},{"start":26709.140000000003,"end":26710.84,"text":"能夠穩定物價來講"},{"start":26710.84,"end":26712.74,"text":"我覺得院長是可以做一個宣示"},{"start":26713.58,"end":26714.780000000002,"text":"我們在宣示就是"},{"start":26714.780000000002,"end":26716.480000000003,"text":"如果台電的經營"},{"start":26716.480000000003,"end":26718.58,"text":"讓他能夠稍稍的健全"},{"start":26718.58,"end":26721.68,"text":"沒有帶太大的財政上的危機的話"},{"start":26721.68,"end":26723.08,"text":"那電價審議委員會"},{"start":26723.08,"end":26725.980000000003,"text":"我們會期待也鼓勵往民生穩定"},{"start":26725.980000000003,"end":26727.38,"text":"物價穩定的方向來走"},{"start":26727.38,"end":26728.980000000003,"text":"因為台電跟中油不一樣"},{"start":26728.980000000003,"end":26730.980000000003,"text":"所以2027年你的方向是"},{"start":26730.980000000003,"end":26732.780000000002,"text":"希望也能夠穩穩不漲"},{"start":26732.780000000002,"end":26734.58,"text":"每一年都期待這個樣子"},{"start":26734.58,"end":26735.58,"text":"不如2027年"},{"start":26735.58,"end":26737.08,"text":"所以你也是目標不漲嘛"},{"start":26738,"end":26739.9,"text":"目標物價要穩定"},{"start":26739.9,"end":26741.2,"text":"但是這些事業體"},{"start":26741.2,"end":26742.5,"text":"國營是要穩得住"},{"start":26742.5,"end":26743.4,"text":"撐得住"},{"start":26743.4,"end":26744.2,"text":"那沒關係"},{"start":26744.2,"end":26745.1,"text":"那那個"},{"start":26745.74,"end":26748.04,"text":"在台電的員工"},{"start":26748.04,"end":26749.140000000003,"text":"其實在一直以來"},{"start":26749.140000000003,"end":26750.940000000002,"text":"在許多的風災也好"},{"start":26750.940000000002,"end":26752.140000000003,"text":"各式的災情搶修"},{"start":26752.140000000003,"end":26754.34,"text":"其實是非常辛苦的"},{"start":26754.34,"end":26754.84,"text":"那"},{"start":26755.53,"end":26756.23,"text":"也想要問一下"},{"start":26756.23,"end":26758.33,"text":"他們的表現應該是可圈可點"},{"start":26758.33,"end":26759.03,"text":"非常的"},{"start":26759.03,"end":26762.33,"text":"所以台電的各項的活動慶典"},{"start":26762.33,"end":26763.23,"text":"紀念日"},{"start":26763.23,"end":26764.53,"text":"80週年等等"},{"start":26764.53,"end":26767.03,"text":"甚至這一次的聯合集團結婚"},{"start":26767.03,"end":26768.63,"text":"我都主動爭取要去參加"},{"start":26768.63,"end":26771.63,"text":"那你會不會同意幫他們主動加薪"},{"start":26771.63,"end":26773.03,"text":"加薪會有用我們"},{"start":26773.03,"end":26775.03,"text":"公教 軍公教人員加薪"},{"start":26775.03,"end":26778.13,"text":"會來應用到台電的這個相當比例"},{"start":26778.13,"end":26780.03,"text":"但因為國營跟軍公教人員"},{"start":26780.03,"end":26781.03,"text":"到底不同"},{"start":26781.03,"end":26782.03,"text":"加薪嗎"},{"start":26782.03,"end":26783.83,"text":"我會支持合理的"},{"start":26783.83,"end":26785.03,"text":"薪資調整"},{"start":26785.03,"end":26787.23,"text":"OK 那部長會送給院長"},{"start":26787.23,"end":26787.73,"text":"會"},{"start":26788.129999999997,"end":26789.129999999997,"text":"OK 那所以說"},{"start":26789.129999999997,"end":26790.829999999998,"text":"那就謝謝部長"},{"start":26790.829999999998,"end":26791.829999999998,"text":"還有謝謝院長"},{"start":26791.829999999998,"end":26794.03,"text":"為我們辛苦的台電的同仁"},{"start":26794.03,"end":26794.629999999997,"text":"謝謝委員的支持"},{"start":26794.629999999997,"end":26796.23,"text":"為他們加薪"},{"start":26796.23,"end":26798.93,"text":"好 那接著我要接著請教"},{"start":26798.93,"end":26801.129999999997,"text":"就是在這個"},{"start":26801.129999999997,"end":26802.73,"text":"我過去是海龍挖兵"},{"start":26802.73,"end":26804.53,"text":"冰天雪地越海的人"},{"start":26804.53,"end":26806.43,"text":"青濤駭浪加青州"},{"start":26806.43,"end":26807.93,"text":"敵人心驚又膽寒"},{"start":26807.93,"end":26809.53,"text":"令我挖兵微凝陽"},{"start":26809.53,"end":26812.53,"text":"那是我們海龍挖兵打樹的文字"},{"start":26812.53,"end":26813.329999999998,"text":"但是"},{"start":26813.329999999998,"end":26815.53,"text":"在那時候的海龍挖兵在"},{"start":26815.53,"end":26816.43,"text":"受訓也好"},{"start":26816.43,"end":26817.43,"text":"我們的精神"},{"start":26817.43,"end":26819.83,"text":"當然是願意為國家犧牲奉獻"},{"start":26819.83,"end":26822.13,"text":"不讓國人受到一點傷害"},{"start":26822.13,"end":26824.63,"text":"但是看到最近媒體報導"},{"start":26824.63,"end":26825.83,"text":"都跟當初所"},{"start":26825.83,"end":26827.23,"text":"受的訓練的概念上"},{"start":26827.23,"end":26828.63,"text":"都完全不同"},{"start":26828.63,"end":26830.73,"text":"所以我們要請教這個軍民區隔"},{"start":26830.73,"end":26831.73,"text":"到底存不存在"},{"start":26831.73,"end":26833.23,"text":"也想要同時請教"},{"start":26833.23,"end":26835.33,"text":"包含國防部長跟內政部長"},{"start":26835.99,"end":26838.890000000003,"text":"那在報導中的話可以看到"},{"start":26838.890000000003,"end":26840.29,"text":"海軍陸戰隊的兩棲偵測大隊"},{"start":26840.29,"end":26841.29,"text":"留志作戰"},{"start":26841.29,"end":26843.890000000003,"text":"要人員去識別化的偽裝"},{"start":26843.890000000003,"end":26845.890000000003,"text":"陸軍編列14.4億"},{"start":26845.890000000003,"end":26848.49,"text":"要採購車裝飛彈裝置"},{"start":26848.49,"end":26850.690000000002,"text":"以外觀普通的貨車來搭載"},{"start":26850.690000000002,"end":26852.99,"text":"AGA-114反裝甲飛彈"},{"start":26852.99,"end":26854.99,"text":"以及報導指稱將故宮"},{"start":26854.99,"end":26856.59,"text":"還有剛才所提到的"},{"start":26856.59,"end":26858.59,"text":"國家兒童未來管車站"},{"start":26858.59,"end":26860.49,"text":"台北車站等民用跟公共設施"},{"start":26860.49,"end":26864.190000000002,"text":"列入暫時備遠的一個長矢評估"},{"start":26864.19,"end":26866.19,"text":"那想要先請教一下內政部長"},{"start":26866.19,"end":26869.69,"text":"報導說把故宮國家兒童未來管台北車站"},{"start":26869.69,"end":26873.989999999998,"text":"民用等公共設施列入暫時的備遠長矢評估"},{"start":26873.989999999998,"end":26875.989999999998,"text":"到底有沒有這樣的評估或報告"},{"start":26875.989999999998,"end":26877.19,"text":"報告委員目前為止"},{"start":26877.19,"end":26879.989999999998,"text":"我想這個都不是一個正確的訊息"},{"start":26879.989999999998,"end":26883.489999999998,"text":"應該是說我們在盤點有很多避難設施"},{"start":26883.489999999998,"end":26885.489999999998,"text":"那公共設施裡面的避難設施"},{"start":26885.489999999998,"end":26887.289999999997,"text":"如果你碰到地震等等的部分"},{"start":26887.289999999997,"end":26888.489999999998,"text":"我們當然需要處理"},{"start":26888.489999999998,"end":26890.489999999998,"text":"那這都是對一般民眾而言的"},{"start":26890.489999999998,"end":26891.789999999997,"text":"不是所謂的備遠"},{"start":26891.789999999997,"end":26893.789999999997,"text":"或者是暫時的支援重心"},{"start":26893.89,"end":26896.89,"text":"那所以說在防災的時候"},{"start":26896.89,"end":26898.89,"text":"救災的時候 災時避難的時候"},{"start":26898.89,"end":26900.29,"text":"這些都是很合理的"},{"start":26900.29,"end":26902.690000000002,"text":"我們警政署本來就是就民房上面"},{"start":26902.690000000002,"end":26905.09,"text":"怎麼樣做避難 收容安置的設施"},{"start":26905.09,"end":26907.79,"text":"本來就是跟很多公共設施需要做結合"},{"start":26907.79,"end":26909.690000000002,"text":"目前是朝著這個方向在規劃"},{"start":26909.690000000002,"end":26910.89,"text":"而且在進行當中"},{"start":26910.89,"end":26913.99,"text":"那所以說這其實也在內政部的評估裡來講"},{"start":26913.99,"end":26916.49,"text":"那不管是平常的防救災"},{"start":26916.49,"end":26919.29,"text":"或是假如有突發狀況或暫時的時候"},{"start":26919.29,"end":26921.29,"text":"這些也曾經被討論過嗎"},{"start":26921.79,"end":26926.190000000002,"text":"因為我們要收容大致上很多的災民的狀況之下"},{"start":26926.190000000002,"end":26928.59,"text":"本來就應該考慮有各種不同的狀況"},{"start":26928.59,"end":26930.59,"text":"好 那接著請問一下國防部長"},{"start":26930.59,"end":26932.99,"text":"大家國防部有針對這些地點場子"},{"start":26932.99,"end":26934.59,"text":"做過討論或評估嗎"},{"start":26935.87,"end":26939.57,"text":"我想強化這個暫時的韌性"},{"start":26939.57,"end":26944.37,"text":"是國防部一直以來的一個相關的努力的方向"},{"start":26944.37,"end":26948.07,"text":"對 那把軍事目標變得像民用目標的戰術"},{"start":26948.07,"end":26952.27,"text":"會不會反而增加平民在一般暫時被誤判波及的風險"},{"start":26952.27,"end":26956.07,"text":"我們沒有說要將軍事的目標轉為"},{"start":26956.07,"end":26958.37,"text":"您剛說的是轉為民事的"},{"start":26958.94,"end":26962.14,"text":"我是說暫時的時候會是成為一些據點"},{"start":26962.67,"end":26968.37,"text":"或是類似那種到時候動員的一些據點"},{"start":26968.37,"end":26970.37,"text":"我想跟委員報告"},{"start":26970.37,"end":26972.07,"text":"我們是進行防衛作戰"},{"start":26972.07,"end":26975.87,"text":"不是進行這個到敵近去進行攻勢作戰"},{"start":26975.87,"end":26979.37,"text":"所以防衛作戰的一個最重要的目的"},{"start":26979.37,"end":26984.07,"text":"就是我們要進行一個不對稱的作戰"},{"start":26984.07,"end":26985.67,"text":"在主場的優勢的情況之下"},{"start":26985.67,"end":26987.17,"text":"那我就直接請教部長"},{"start":26987.17,"end":26990.87,"text":"來抵禦這一個共軍的侵入"},{"start":26990.87,"end":26993.57,"text":"讓他的共軍侵入的行動不能成功"},{"start":26993.57,"end":26995.87,"text":"所以這些地點像是故宮"},{"start":26995.87,"end":26999.37,"text":"台北車站做成暫時備援的一個地點的時候"},{"start":26999.37,"end":27002.37,"text":"像是民眾的疏散計畫是否有"},{"start":27002.37,"end":27004.77,"text":"剛剛我想內政部長已經說明了"},{"start":27004.77,"end":27009.17,"text":"我沒有在考慮什麼故宮或者是台北車站這些"},{"start":27009.17,"end":27012.17,"text":"那相關的這些我們在暫時"},{"start":27012.17,"end":27013.969999999998,"text":"作為一個備援的一個處所"},{"start":27013.969999999998,"end":27017.67,"text":"可能你要容我沒有辦法在這個地方跟委員報告"},{"start":27017.67,"end":27018.57,"text":"那所以沒關係"},{"start":27018.57,"end":27022.77,"text":"這個部分我覺得有些事情在國防上面還是得保密"},{"start":27022.77,"end":27028.57,"text":"但是在這些地點的場地址討論跟疏散方案的話"},{"start":27028.57,"end":27030.77,"text":"是也有被做過評估過的"},{"start":27031.59,"end":27036.79,"text":"暫時備援的這些地點場地像是車站故宮兒童醫院"},{"start":27036.79,"end":27038.79,"text":"這些都有做過討論或推演吧"},{"start":27039.48,"end":27043.18,"text":"您剛剛舉的這些地點我想"},{"start":27044.24,"end":27047.24,"text":"就我理解並不是一個真實的一個訊息"},{"start":27047.24,"end":27048.440000000002,"text":"那有沒有做過討論"},{"start":27048.440000000002,"end":27050.74,"text":"因為這個是決定跟討論"},{"start":27050.74,"end":27051.74,"text":"這是兩碼的事"},{"start":27051.74,"end":27053.440000000002,"text":"我的理解如果沒有錯的話"},{"start":27053.440000000002,"end":27054.940000000002,"text":"相關有些相關的報導"},{"start":27054.940000000002,"end":27056.74,"text":"您講的應該是CJUC"},{"start":27056.74,"end":27060.24,"text":"就是屬於中央聯合應變中心的一個相關"},{"start":27060.24,"end":27063.940000000002,"text":"但是就這個部分不歸我們國防部主責"},{"start":27063.940000000002,"end":27067.24,"text":"但我的了解這也並不是一個正確的訊息"},{"start":27067.24,"end":27068.24,"text":"好沒有關係"},{"start":27068.24,"end":27071.640000000003,"text":"那如果說在這樣子的討論"},{"start":27071.64,"end":27074.84,"text":"跟方向的一個研判跟規劃"},{"start":27074.84,"end":27077.64,"text":"那本席還是要在這裡做提醒"},{"start":27077.64,"end":27081.64,"text":"因為任何的一個國際人道法的區別原則"},{"start":27081.64,"end":27085.64,"text":"那其實在軍事目標跟民用物體上是做區隔的"},{"start":27085.64,"end":27091.14,"text":"那真正的一個戰爭除了是要保護這個等於是防衛安全"},{"start":27091.14,"end":27094.34,"text":"但是另外一點就是要保衛人民"},{"start":27094.34,"end":27096.44,"text":"不能說騙得過敵軍一次"},{"start":27096.44,"end":27099.739999999998,"text":"但是卻讓一般送貨的貨車送物資的百姓"},{"start":27099.739999999998,"end":27101.44,"text":"反而風險提高"},{"start":27101.44,"end":27105.14,"text":"那所以屏戰轉換跟進攻跟居民的疏散計畫"},{"start":27105.14,"end":27106.14,"text":"那其實"},{"start":27106.71,"end":27108.41,"text":"包括在討論上"},{"start":27108.41,"end":27109.91,"text":"還是要去思考"},{"start":27109.91,"end":27112.21,"text":"如何能夠讓民眾更安全"},{"start":27112.21,"end":27116.51,"text":"那所以在這個的整個的一個討論跟規劃上"},{"start":27116.51,"end":27118.41,"text":"還是要保護平民為最大目的"},{"start":27118.41,"end":27119.01,"text":"崑偉報告"},{"start":27119.01,"end":27125.01,"text":"我想軍民整合在演練的目的就是在面臨這個"},{"start":27125.01,"end":27128.01,"text":"如果萬一有緊急狀態的情況之下"},{"start":27128.01,"end":27131.71,"text":"如何確保這個民眾的一個安全"},{"start":27131.71,"end":27136.21,"text":"跟讓我們能夠順利的遂行我們的防衛作戰任務"},{"start":27136.21,"end":27138.21,"text":"這樣同時能夠兼顧"},{"start":27138.21,"end":27140.21,"text":"我想這個就是我們的一個目標"},{"start":27140.21,"end":27142.21,"text":"不過我要跟委員澄清一件事情"},{"start":27142.21,"end":27144.71,"text":"如果是颱風水災等等"},{"start":27144.71,"end":27147.71,"text":"我們中央應變中心是大家所知道的地方"},{"start":27147.71,"end":27149.71,"text":"但如果不是這些災害"},{"start":27149.71,"end":27152.21,"text":"是一些人為的特殊的災害"},{"start":27152.21,"end":27155.21,"text":"那我們應變中心世界EOC到底在哪裡"},{"start":27155.21,"end":27157.71,"text":"倒不是我們這裡可以來公開討論"},{"start":27157.71,"end":27160.71,"text":"那我們既然要維持世界EOC本身的安全"},{"start":27160.71,"end":27163.71,"text":"就不會把它跟民眾的安全有妨礙的地方"},{"start":27163.71,"end":27165.71,"text":"把它放在明顯的地方"},{"start":27165.71,"end":27167.71,"text":"所以我們是在另外一種考量底下"},{"start":27167.71,"end":27169.71,"text":"而不是用現在的觀念來看"},{"start":27169.71,"end":27172.21,"text":"好OK 謝謝院長的一個誠經說明"},{"start":27172.21,"end":27174.71,"text":"那內政部長謝謝"},{"start":27174.71,"end":27178.71,"text":"那接著請問一下院長"},{"start":27178.71,"end":27183.71,"text":"那就是在目前先講這個毒品獨價的問題"},{"start":27183.71,"end":27187.21,"text":"美沙東乾淨真區這醫療減害措施今天不可回談"},{"start":27187.21,"end":27189.71,"text":"但是想要問一下行政院目前對於"},{"start":27189.71,"end":27191.71,"text":"毒品政策的界線在哪裡"},{"start":27191.71,"end":27194.21,"text":"減害跟儲存化的界線在哪裡"},{"start":27194.21,"end":27197.71,"text":"醫療戒制跟毒品正常化的界線又在哪裡"},{"start":27197.71,"end":27199.71,"text":"那想請院長回答"},{"start":27200.83,"end":27203.33,"text":"我們在毒價的防治上面"},{"start":27203.33,"end":27206.83,"text":"我們先前經過多次的討論"},{"start":27206.83,"end":27211.33,"text":"我們從各個面向找出了14項左右的一些措施"},{"start":27211.33,"end":27213.83,"text":"我們從源頭管制等等"},{"start":27213.83,"end":27216.83,"text":"我們有相當多的一些面向來處置"},{"start":27216.83,"end":27218.83,"text":"那這個就是依照這樣的處置"},{"start":27218.83,"end":27220.83,"text":"現在我們從各個數字看起來"},{"start":27220.83,"end":27225.33,"text":"整個案件數以及案件的造勢率"},{"start":27225.33,"end":27227.33,"text":"都有在下降都有在控制當中"},{"start":27227.33,"end":27229.33,"text":"好那本席再問仔細一點好了"},{"start":27229.33,"end":27231.33,"text":"行政院會不會"},{"start":27231.33,"end":27233.83,"text":"可不可以不支持毒品主罪化"},{"start":27233.83,"end":27235.83,"text":"還是會支持毒品主罪化"},{"start":27237.3,"end":27238.8,"text":"毒品不可以除罪化啊"},{"start":27238.8,"end":27239.3,"text":"對啊沒錯"},{"start":27239.94,"end":27241.44,"text":"所以如果不支持的話"},{"start":27241.44,"end":27244.44,"text":"那希望院長能夠把政府的底線講得更清楚"},{"start":27244.44,"end":27248.44,"text":"那幫助成癮者戒癮、治療、降低傷害"},{"start":27248.44,"end":27250.94,"text":"能不能因為減害兩個字"},{"start":27250.94,"end":27254.94,"text":"變得讓民眾取得毒品更容易或是被合理化"},{"start":27255.48,"end":27258.98,"text":"但是這是國際上已經實證相當長一段時間了"},{"start":27258.98,"end":27259.98,"text":"幫助"},{"start":27261.13,"end":27264.13,"text":"吸食毒品的人不把它純粹當作犯罪的人"},{"start":27264.13,"end":27267.63,"text":"而他當作一個必須用治療的行為讓他戒癮"},{"start":27267.63,"end":27269.63,"text":"或是用各種的方式讓他減害"},{"start":27269.63,"end":27271.13,"text":"那這是國際上認證"},{"start":27271.13,"end":27272.63,"text":"我們也行之多年"},{"start":27272.63,"end":27275.63,"text":"在任何執政黨執政的時候"},{"start":27275.63,"end":27277.63,"text":"都用這樣的方式在做"},{"start":27277.63,"end":27281.63,"text":"那這個有降低所有風險的事實印證存在"},{"start":27281.63,"end":27283.63,"text":"但是現在來講"},{"start":27283.63,"end":27285.63,"text":"社會上面來講毒品的氾濫"},{"start":27285.63,"end":27288.13,"text":"應該院長是認為是更嚴重沒錯"},{"start":27289.12,"end":27290.62,"text":"新興毒品越來越多"},{"start":27290.62,"end":27295.12,"text":"所以我們才有針對毒品的各項面向及措施來因應"},{"start":27295.12,"end":27299.12,"text":"那這個跟戒癮或是減害的作用"},{"start":27299.12,"end":27302.62,"text":"它可以同時在不同的範疇裡面去存在"},{"start":27302.62,"end":27304.62,"text":"也因為戒癮跟除害"},{"start":27304.62,"end":27306.62,"text":"事實上幫助了很多有毒癮的人"},{"start":27308.18,"end":27309.68,"text":"進到這樣的一個處遇過程當中"},{"start":27309.68,"end":27314.68,"text":"對他本身能夠在從事正當的生活、家庭、工作"},{"start":27314.68,"end":27315.68,"text":"是有幫助的"},{"start":27315.68,"end":27318.68,"text":"民眾他比較會希望或家長他比較希望的是"},{"start":27318.68,"end":27321.18,"text":"毒品如何不要進入校園不要進入社會"},{"start":27321.18,"end":27324.18,"text":"而不是在於變得是如何放寬一樣"},{"start":27324.18,"end":27327.18,"text":"所以說行政院是否可以明確反對毒品正常化"},{"start":27328.45,"end":27330.45,"text":"毒品不可以正常化"},{"start":27330.45,"end":27332.45,"text":"而且要加強對毒品的行者"},{"start":27332.45,"end":27336.45,"text":"那是否會反對任何可能降低青少年毒品危害認知的政策"},{"start":27338.12,"end":27339.12,"text":"不會反對嗎?"},{"start":27339.37,"end":27340.37,"text":"降低"},{"start":27341.68,"end":27345.68,"text":"任何的毒品政策都應該以今天下午不要危害社區"},{"start":27345.68,"end":27349.18,"text":"不要造成公共安全風險為基本的確詐"},{"start":27349.18,"end":27351.18,"text":"我們希望校園都是無毒無害的"},{"start":27351.18,"end":27353.18,"text":"也希望家庭無毒無害"},{"start":27353.18,"end":27356.18,"text":"所以必須家庭、社區、學校以及政府"},{"start":27356.18,"end":27358.18,"text":"跟民間各種團體一起來合作"},{"start":27358.56,"end":27363.56,"text":"好那本席要直接再接著問一下國防部長一下"},{"start":27363.56,"end":27364.56,"text":"那"},{"start":27364.56,"end":27365.56,"text":"部長"},{"start":27365.56,"end":27368.56,"text":"那在這裡剛好有個機會可以讓你針對"},{"start":27368.56,"end":27373.56,"text":"之前施用毒品者醫療潛質化的部分表達一下立場"},{"start":27376.38,"end":27378.38,"text":"那時候我們在登登立法委員的時候"},{"start":27379.36,"end":27382.36,"text":"施用毒品者醫療潛質化這個部分"},{"start":27382.71,"end":27384.71,"text":"這是毒品零容忍"},{"start":27384.71,"end":27385.71,"text":"毒品不能合法化"},{"start":27385.71,"end":27386.71,"text":"這是你支持吧"},{"start":27386.71,"end":27387.71,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":27387.71,"end":27388.71,"text":"我想"},{"start":27388.71,"end":27390.71,"text":"毒品的相關的政策"},{"start":27390.71,"end":27391.71,"text":"就我的理解"},{"start":27391.71,"end":27395.71,"text":"現在正在台北市政府所進行的相關的政策"},{"start":27395.71,"end":27396.71,"text":"都跟"},{"start":27396.71,"end":27399.71,"text":"如果您要問我在立委當時的一個政策的話"},{"start":27399.71,"end":27401.71,"text":"我想這個都是相符的"},{"start":27401.71,"end":27402.71,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":27402.71,"end":27403.71,"text":"毒品的"},{"start":27403.71,"end":27408.71,"text":"當然有所重在用替代的療法來進行幫它進行切治"},{"start":27408.71,"end":27409.71,"text":"這才是根本的一個"},{"start":27409.71,"end":27414.71,"text":"所以你也會反對社區中心提供毒品給吸毒者吧"},{"start":27414.71,"end":27417.71,"text":"不是這個台北市政府就我的理解"},{"start":27417.71,"end":27419.71,"text":"我想我現在是光復"},{"start":27419.71,"end":27420.71,"text":"在光復"},{"start":27420.71,"end":27422.71,"text":"您這樣子問我有點大"},{"start":27422.71,"end":27423.71,"text":"我只能夠說"},{"start":27423.71,"end":27427.71,"text":"我所有相關的這個毒品的戒指的一個政策"},{"start":27427.71,"end":27430.71,"text":"都跟現在台北市政府正在進行的政策"},{"start":27430.71,"end":27433.71,"text":"跟座委其實是相符的"},{"start":27433.71,"end":27435.71,"text":"所以社區中心不應該提供毒品給吸毒者嗎"},{"start":27435.71,"end":27439.71,"text":"報告委員台北市現在有34個社區藥局"},{"start":27440.2,"end":27442.2,"text":"是在提供這種減害措施的"},{"start":27442.2,"end":27444.2,"text":"也有三個醫院院區"},{"start":27444.2,"end":27448.2,"text":"在台灣有人提出社區藥設置一個中心"},{"start":27448.2,"end":27452.2,"text":"提供毒品吸食用具以及政府人員在旁邊監督"},{"start":27452.2,"end":27453.2,"text":"吸食"},{"start":27453.2,"end":27455.2,"text":"那這種毒行政院應該是反對吧"},{"start":27456.52,"end":27458.52,"text":"如果是美沙東他必須在社區藥局"},{"start":27458.52,"end":27459.52,"text":"不是美沙東"},{"start":27459.52,"end":27462.52,"text":"今天來講那個在上面資料所提到的"},{"start":27462.52,"end":27464.52,"text":"他講的就不是美沙東"},{"start":27464.52,"end":27467.52,"text":"那是什麼沒有提供美沙東"},{"start":27471.33,"end":27473.33,"text":"所以這個不分員上"},{"start":27473.33,"end":27475.33,"text":"院長是覺得不宜嘛"},{"start":27479.55,"end":27481.55,"text":"我必須要坦白講"},{"start":27482.12,"end":27483.12,"text":"毒品凝膿忍啊"},{"start":27483.12,"end":27485.12,"text":"毒品也不能處罪化"},{"start":27485.12,"end":27488.12,"text":"社區中心也不能夠放置毒品"},{"start":27488.12,"end":27490.12,"text":"不管是在剛才所提到的"},{"start":27490.12,"end":27493.12,"text":"國際上是不是認為有效管理的話"},{"start":27493.12,"end":27495.12,"text":"能夠降低這個社會風險"},{"start":27495.12,"end":27497.12,"text":"但是其實民眾跟家長擔心的是"},{"start":27497.12,"end":27499.12,"text":"如果現在來講提出的是"},{"start":27499.12,"end":27500.12,"text":"毒品要放在社區"},{"start":27500.12,"end":27501.12,"text":"來做這些"},{"start":27501.12,"end":27503.12,"text":"又扯上毒品等於藥品"},{"start":27504.99,"end":27508.99,"text":"有很多人都不會在社區要發放毒品"},{"start":27508.99,"end":27511.99,"text":"而是社區中心如果他是一個社區藥局"},{"start":27511.99,"end":27514.99,"text":"或是有醫護人員的一個什麼樣的形態的中心"},{"start":27514.99,"end":27517.99,"text":"他要行這個動作是在減害"},{"start":27517.99,"end":27521.99,"text":"幫助這個有毒癮的人降低他的受害"},{"start":27521.99,"end":27523.99,"text":"讓他能夠回歸正常"},{"start":27523.99,"end":27525.99,"text":"絕對不是提供毒品的"},{"start":27525.99,"end":27527.99,"text":"它是一個減害的措施"},{"start":27527.99,"end":27528.99,"text":"那我坦白講"},{"start":27528.99,"end":27530.99,"text":"那這個部分對於毒品凝膿忍"},{"start":27530.99,"end":27531.99,"text":"跟大家的擔憂"},{"start":27532.99,"end":27534.99,"text":"那現在台北市就這樣在做啊"},{"start":27534.99,"end":27535.99,"text":"那我坦白講"},{"start":27535.99,"end":27537.99,"text":"因為它毒品不是藥品啊"},{"start":27538.17,"end":27540.17,"text":"那今天所討論的這個部分不是美沙東啊"},{"start":27540.17,"end":27542.17,"text":"那那是什麼"},{"start":27542.17,"end":27544.17,"text":"那個包括目前來講"},{"start":27544.17,"end":27546.17,"text":"張景聲他不是也提到包括大麻嗎"},{"start":27547.1,"end":27548.1,"text":"好沒關係"},{"start":27548.1,"end":27550.1,"text":"這個部分我剛才原本是要讓部長來"},{"start":27550.1,"end":27553.1,"text":"針對過去的部分來表達一下立場"},{"start":27553.1,"end":27554.1,"text":"我們請問會不會來說明一下"},{"start":27554.1,"end":27555.1,"text":"有沒有提供其他"},{"start":27555.1,"end":27556.1,"text":"委員我想再"},{"start":27556.1,"end":27557.1,"text":"好啦"},{"start":27557.1,"end":27559.1,"text":"因為我是主責的部會"},{"start":27559.1,"end":27561.1,"text":"應該是就我主責的部會來進行"},{"start":27561.1,"end":27562.1,"text":"沒關係因為那是你過去的立場"},{"start":27562.1,"end":27563.1,"text":"如果那這樣的話"},{"start":27563.1,"end":27567.1,"text":"那我就變成委員跟委員來對談辯論"},{"start":27567.1,"end":27569.1,"text":"所以說換了位置的說法就不一樣"},{"start":27569.1,"end":27570.1,"text":"不是"},{"start":27570.1,"end":27571.1,"text":"好啦沒關係啦"},{"start":27571.1,"end":27572.1,"text":"不是我只是"},{"start":27572.1,"end":27573.1,"text":"已經剛剛也說明了"},{"start":27573.1,"end":27575.1,"text":"這個議題你也說明了"},{"start":27575.1,"end":27576.1,"text":"這就是你的答案啦"},{"start":27576.1,"end":27578.1,"text":"好部長謝謝"},{"start":27578.61,"end":27580.61,"text":"那我想說接著交通部"},{"start":27583.37,"end":27584.37,"text":"請交易部長備選"},{"start":27584.37,"end":27585.37,"text":"交通部交通部"},{"start":27585.37,"end":27586.37,"text":"跟正交通部長備選"},{"start":27595.04,"end":27599.04,"text":"那剛才那一題我們還是堅決反對在社區中心"},{"start":27599.04,"end":27601.04,"text":"有毒品的這個風險"},{"start":27601.04,"end":27603.04,"text":"但是換個輕鬆一點的議題"},{"start":27603.04,"end":27605.04,"text":"我們交通部陳時凱部長"},{"start":27605.04,"end":27608.04,"text":"其實非常用心也幫南投許多"},{"start":27608.04,"end":27610.04,"text":"那針對高鐵的部分"},{"start":27610.04,"end":27612.04,"text":"在上個月的時候"},{"start":27612.04,"end":27613.04,"text":"我在搭乘高鐵的時候"},{"start":27613.04,"end":27616.04,"text":"看到這個有的爸爸媽媽帶著小孩"},{"start":27616.04,"end":27618.04,"text":"在乘坐的時候"},{"start":27618.04,"end":27620.04,"text":"因為小孩子都會發出一些聲音"},{"start":27620.04,"end":27623.04,"text":"所以到最後變成"},{"start":27623.04,"end":27625.04,"text":"一下子他們的帳務人員"},{"start":27625.04,"end":27627.04,"text":"他還請這個媽媽"},{"start":27627.04,"end":27629.04,"text":"讓小孩不要苦鬧"},{"start":27629.04,"end":27630.04,"text":"一方面的話"},{"start":27630.04,"end":27631.04,"text":"到最後"},{"start":27631.04,"end":27633.04,"text":"又請他是不是可以把小孩"},{"start":27633.04,"end":27635.04,"text":"是不是先帶到外面去"},{"start":27635.04,"end":27636.04,"text":"那之後"},{"start":27637.25,"end":27639.25,"text":"餘態的乘客"},{"start":27639.25,"end":27643.25,"text":"還有人對這個家長他們表達側目"},{"start":27643.25,"end":27645.25,"text":"還甚至罵了一句"},{"start":27645.25,"end":27648.25,"text":"那這個感覺起來就非常讓人難過"},{"start":27648.25,"end":27650.25,"text":"那我在想"},{"start":27650.61,"end":27651.61,"text":"一些比較溫馨的"},{"start":27651.61,"end":27653.61,"text":"但是對社會有幫助就是"},{"start":27653.61,"end":27654.61,"text":"高鐵的部分"},{"start":27654.61,"end":27658.61,"text":"有沒有可能針對這個親子車廂"},{"start":27658.61,"end":27660.61,"text":"或是家庭區"},{"start":27660.61,"end":27662.61,"text":"能夠比照德國或奧地利"},{"start":27662.61,"end":27664.61,"text":"來做一個設置"},{"start":27664.61,"end":27666.61,"text":"因為寧靜區跟親子區"},{"start":27666.61,"end":27669.61,"text":"它不應該是分開的平行線"},{"start":27669.61,"end":27672.61,"text":"那它有可能在其他國家也都做到了"},{"start":27672.61,"end":27675.61,"text":"它是可以在部分車廂或部分區域"},{"start":27675.61,"end":27678.61,"text":"來設置在高鐵有這個親子區"},{"start":27678.61,"end":27681.61,"text":"或者是讓小朋友能夠在那個城市"},{"start":27681.61,"end":27684.61,"text":"在當初訂票的時候就可以做選擇"},{"start":27684.61,"end":27686.61,"text":"那想問一下"},{"start":27686.61,"end":27687.61,"text":"部長對於這個部分"},{"start":27687.61,"end":27690.61,"text":"是不是可以在今年或明年"},{"start":27690.61,"end":27694.61,"text":"把這個部分能夠來協助這個親子完成"},{"start":27694.61,"end":27696.61,"text":"甚至如果這個是正向的話"},{"start":27696.61,"end":27698.61,"text":"院長是不是可以表達支持"},{"start":27698.94,"end":27700.94,"text":"像委員報告"},{"start":27700.94,"end":27702.94,"text":"態度上當然我很支持"},{"start":27702.94,"end":27704.94,"text":"因為我們家也有三個小朋友"},{"start":27704.94,"end":27708.94,"text":"那確實親子區是一個很進步國家大家的一個顯現"},{"start":27708.94,"end":27710.94,"text":"那不過現在高鐵有遇到一個問題"},{"start":27710.94,"end":27712.94,"text":"就是說車廂相當的擁擠"},{"start":27712.94,"end":27714.94,"text":"在相當擁擠的狀況底下"},{"start":27714.94,"end":27716.94,"text":"有沒有辦法去規劃出一個親子區"},{"start":27716.94,"end":27717.94,"text":"這是一個討論"},{"start":27717.94,"end":27718.94,"text":"那另外一個討論"},{"start":27718.94,"end":27721.94,"text":"其實社會在之前寧靜車廂的討論的過程"},{"start":27721.94,"end":27722.94,"text":"也有講到這一點"},{"start":27722.94,"end":27725.94,"text":"就是說如果我們劃製了親子區之後"},{"start":27725.94,"end":27727.94,"text":"小朋友如果到了其他的區域"},{"start":27727.94,"end":27730.94,"text":"如果其他的旅客不開心"},{"start":27730.94,"end":27731.94,"text":"會不會有這個問題"},{"start":27731.94,"end":27733.94,"text":"其實我們也正在討論當中"},{"start":27733.94,"end":27736.94,"text":"那其實應該要整個社會大家對親子要是友善"},{"start":27736.94,"end":27737.94,"text":"對小朋友要是友善"},{"start":27737.94,"end":27740.94,"text":"這是一個很重要的文明的一個態度"},{"start":27740.94,"end":27743.94,"text":"那我們也跟高鐵公司其實有討論過這個問題"},{"start":27743.94,"end":27747.94,"text":"我們希望說未來在真正我們的空間有餘裕的時候"},{"start":27747.94,"end":27748.94,"text":"像台鐵"},{"start":27748.94,"end":27751.94,"text":"台鐵現在有一些車廂其實就是比較親子化的車廂"},{"start":27751.94,"end":27753.94,"text":"它有些餘裕的空間可以這麼做"},{"start":27753.94,"end":27755.94,"text":"那高鐵目前是比較擁擠"},{"start":27755.94,"end":27757.94,"text":"我們希望說未來新的車子進來之後"},{"start":27757.94,"end":27758.94,"text":"有餘裕的空間的時候"},{"start":27758.94,"end":27759.94,"text":"是不是可以朝向這個方向"},{"start":27759.94,"end":27761.94,"text":"我覺得這是很好的方向"},{"start":27761.94,"end":27763.94,"text":"也值得討論也值得研究"},{"start":27763.94,"end":27765.94,"text":"那有沒有可能在未來"},{"start":27765.94,"end":27768.94,"text":"在今年底車廂進來的時候"},{"start":27768.94,"end":27770.94,"text":"能夠有一個試行計畫"},{"start":27770.94,"end":27772.94,"text":"不管是在部分的車次"},{"start":27772.94,"end":27775.94,"text":"或者是在可能某一節像第一節"},{"start":27775.94,"end":27776.94,"text":"或是中間的車廂"},{"start":27776.94,"end":27779.94,"text":"有沒有可能往這方向來辦理一個計畫"},{"start":27781.07,"end":27782.07,"text":"像委員報告"},{"start":27782.07,"end":27785.07,"text":"我們趕快來去跟高鐵來討論一下"},{"start":27785.07,"end":27786.07,"text":"到時候它車"},{"start":27786.07,"end":27789.07,"text":"新的車上線之後它是陸續上線"},{"start":27789.07,"end":27792.07,"text":"那到什麼時候它的餘裕空間足夠的時候"},{"start":27792.07,"end":27793.07,"text":"我們就趕快來示範"},{"start":27793.07,"end":27796.07,"text":"我覺得這是很值得示範的一個方向"},{"start":27796.07,"end":27798.07,"text":"那是不是也讓院長來宣示一下"},{"start":27798.64,"end":27802.64,"text":"我是認為如果車廂將來比較餘裕的來供應"},{"start":27802.64,"end":27807.64,"text":"在非常擁擠的尖峰時段的部分的班次"},{"start":27807.64,"end":27808.64,"text":"裡面的特定車廂"},{"start":27808.64,"end":27812.64,"text":"倒是可以有一個可行性的一些評估"},{"start":27812.64,"end":27814.64,"text":"那就是來做一個示範"},{"start":27814.64,"end":27816.64,"text":"應該是在年底的話"},{"start":27816.64,"end":27818.64,"text":"是不是有一個方案來試試看"},{"start":27819.13,"end":27821.13,"text":"我們跟高鐵來討論"},{"start":27821.13,"end":27824.13,"text":"好 那部長您的答案"},{"start":27824.13,"end":27825.13,"text":"OK 謝謝"},{"start":27825.13,"end":27827.13,"text":"好 那有請文貴部長"},{"start":27828.61,"end":27829.61,"text":"那請農業部長備去"},{"start":27834.65,"end":27836.65,"text":"那謝謝農業部"},{"start":27836.65,"end":27840.65,"text":"那我在這裡也為我們南投的茶農來請命一下"},{"start":27840.65,"end":27841.65,"text":"那在過去的話"},{"start":27841.65,"end":27843.65,"text":"我們跟博娃許縣長"},{"start":27843.65,"end":27845.65,"text":"縣府團隊跟蔡總支議員"},{"start":27845.65,"end":27849.65,"text":"曾經針對南投的茶青民間鄉"},{"start":27849.65,"end":27852.65,"text":"來做一些問題的提出"},{"start":27852.65,"end":27856.65,"text":"那時候在2025年茶青價格已經是30塊"},{"start":27856.65,"end":27857.65,"text":"可是在今年的話"},{"start":27857.65,"end":27860.65,"text":"已經快速腰斬到甚至到13塊"},{"start":27860.65,"end":27863.65,"text":"那時候縣府有把地方"},{"start":27863.65,"end":27865.65,"text":"走轉上去的一個"},{"start":27865.65,"end":27867.65,"text":"四十二十萬的一個經費"},{"start":27867.65,"end":27869.65,"text":"還需要能夠來做一個補貼"},{"start":27869.65,"end":27872.65,"text":"那這個是當然先治標"},{"start":27872.65,"end":27876.65,"text":"那這個部分是不是部長這邊也可以表達支持"},{"start":27878.12,"end":27880.12,"text":"我先跟委員報告"},{"start":27880.12,"end":27883.12,"text":"今年特別在南投這邊的茶價比較低"},{"start":27883.12,"end":27886.12,"text":"最主要是因為豪雨的關係"},{"start":27886.12,"end":27887.12,"text":"所造成的一些品質"},{"start":27887.12,"end":27888.12,"text":"這是第一個部分"},{"start":27888.12,"end":27892.12,"text":"第二個部分就是現在的茶商本身的庫存還有"},{"start":27892.12,"end":27896.12,"text":"所以導致說他在收購的時候價格會壓低"},{"start":27896.12,"end":27897.12,"text":"就成如你說的"},{"start":27897.12,"end":27899.12,"text":"本來是大概每台金25、6塊"},{"start":27899.12,"end":27902.12,"text":"現在已經降到13塊左右"},{"start":27902.12,"end":27905.12,"text":"所以我們就即時的啟動了相關的"},{"start":27905.12,"end":27907.12,"text":"所謂的穩價的一個措施"},{"start":27907.12,"end":27909.12,"text":"那穩價的措施"},{"start":27909.98,"end":27912.98,"text":"很多人都認為說這些錢這些補助"},{"start":27912.98,"end":27915.98,"text":"是要給茶農還是茶商"},{"start":27915.98,"end":27916.98,"text":"還是全部給茶農"},{"start":27916.98,"end":27917.98,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":27917.98,"end":27919.98,"text":"我們在處理穩價措施的時候"},{"start":27919.98,"end":27925.98,"text":"當然給茶農表示說他可能獲得一些補助"},{"start":27925.98,"end":27929.98,"text":"但是如果沒有辦法讓茶商進場去買的時候"},{"start":27929.98,"end":27931.98,"text":"那個價格會壓得更低"},{"start":27931.98,"end":27933.98,"text":"這是我們過去的經驗"},{"start":27933.98,"end":27936.98,"text":"所以我們一定會找到一個對產業有幫助"},{"start":27936.98,"end":27939.98,"text":"對農民有幫助的穩價措施"},{"start":27939.98,"end":27941.98,"text":"好那所以說這個補貼來講"},{"start":27941.98,"end":27945.98,"text":"目前農業部這邊是正向支持也通過核定"},{"start":27945.98,"end":27951.98,"text":"我們是支持然後由那個公所這邊他提報以後"},{"start":27951.98,"end":27954.98,"text":"透過縣府提報以後我們會做核定"},{"start":27954.98,"end":27955.98,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":27955.98,"end":27957.98,"text":"那另外的還是要補充一下"},{"start":27957.98,"end":27959.98,"text":"那關鍵還是在於銷"},{"start":27959.98,"end":27962.98,"text":"因為茶農他們怕血本無歸"},{"start":27962.98,"end":27964.98,"text":"那以前的茶商他們的通路"},{"start":27964.98,"end":27967.98,"text":"跟現在來講他們反而囤貨之後不收購"},{"start":27967.98,"end":27971.98,"text":"造成茶農他們現在是非常的痛苦"},{"start":27971.98,"end":27974.98,"text":"那所以說還是要拜託農業部這邊"},{"start":27974.98,"end":27976.98,"text":"能夠找出一些外銷的管道"},{"start":27976.98,"end":27978.98,"text":"來協助產業的外銷"},{"start":27978.98,"end":27981.98,"text":"那最後就是南投茶葉博覽會"},{"start":27981.98,"end":27984.98,"text":"在這個禮拜到10月11號"},{"start":27984.98,"end":27987.98,"text":"那在這邊也邀請院長跟部長"},{"start":27987.98,"end":27990.98,"text":"可以一起來關心南投茶葉"},{"start":27990.98,"end":27992.98,"text":"一起來行銷南投好茶"},{"start":27993.73,"end":27995.73,"text":"我跟你們報告我明天就會下去"},{"start":27995.73,"end":27997.73,"text":"明天我就會下去"},{"start":27997.73,"end":27999.73,"text":"因為最主要的就像您說的"},{"start":27999.73,"end":28003.73,"text":"就是怎麼樣讓我們的外銷的通路能夠順暢"},{"start":28003.73,"end":28005.73,"text":"這是我們大家一起努力的目標"},{"start":28005.73,"end":28006.73,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":28006.73,"end":28009.73,"text":"那最後要請教一下院長"},{"start":28009.73,"end":28011.73,"text":"那還是要請部長陪一下"},{"start":28011.73,"end":28013.73,"text":"就是在去年7月11號的時候"},{"start":28013.73,"end":28016.73,"text":"所謂院長你在丹那市颱風來南投勘災"},{"start":28016.73,"end":28019.73,"text":"那時候我跟許淑華縣長有向你反應"},{"start":28019.73,"end":28022.73,"text":"許多農民在台大實驗林根諸的時候"},{"start":28022.73,"end":28025.73,"text":"礙於法令跟照林地使用限制"},{"start":28025.73,"end":28028.73,"text":"農民都沒有辦法申請到農業的天然災害"},{"start":28028.73,"end":28030.73,"text":"那時候你有承諾會協助"},{"start":28030.73,"end":28032.73,"text":"那這個老議題"},{"start":28032.73,"end":28034.73,"text":"其實從許淑華縣長擔任立委"},{"start":28034.73,"end":28037.73,"text":"像林全院長 賴清德院長 蘇貞昌院長"},{"start":28037.73,"end":28039.73,"text":"諮詢時的時候都有提到"},{"start":28039.73,"end":28043.73,"text":"你是在中間經歷的第四位行政院長"},{"start":28043.73,"end":28045.73,"text":"那想要直接請教你"},{"start":28045.73,"end":28047.73,"text":"那目前來講協助的進度如何"},{"start":28047.73,"end":28050.73,"text":"因為他跨越許多的機關"},{"start":28050.73,"end":28054.73,"text":"包括原民會 包括國產署 包括台大實驗林"},{"start":28054.73,"end":28057.73,"text":"那這個部分到底現在的進度"},{"start":28057.73,"end":28060.73,"text":"如何能夠讓民眾他們頂得到"},{"start":28060.73,"end":28062.73,"text":"請陳部長來說明"},{"start":28062.73,"end":28064.73,"text":"這個部分我們已經解開他的一些限制了"},{"start":28064.73,"end":28065.73,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":28065.73,"end":28067.73,"text":"就是上次在去年度的時候"},{"start":28067.73,"end":28069.73,"text":"有很多委員質詢的時候"},{"start":28069.73,"end":28072.73,"text":"那院長當場就要求我們來做這樣的一個"},{"start":28072.73,"end":28074.73,"text":"最適當的一個處理"},{"start":28074.73,"end":28075.73,"text":"那我也跟委員報告"},{"start":28075.73,"end":28077.73,"text":"我們針對他在林場這個部分已經解開了"},{"start":28077.73,"end":28079.73,"text":"只要他在林地裡面"},{"start":28079.73,"end":28084.73,"text":"本身他維持至少30%的林木的情況之下"},{"start":28084.73,"end":28086.73,"text":"那70%的這些農作物"},{"start":28086.73,"end":28091.73,"text":"果樹類的農作物一律都可以得到天然代替救助"},{"start":28091.73,"end":28093.73,"text":"這個已經啟動了"},{"start":28093.73,"end":28095.73,"text":"好 那這個是請就段"},{"start":28095.73,"end":28096.73,"text":"那另外的話"},{"start":28096.73,"end":28098.73,"text":"森林塔81條的一個條文"},{"start":28098.73,"end":28103.73,"text":"那時候建議政府在代管土地單位的這些機關"},{"start":28103.73,"end":28105.73,"text":"那標準要做到一致"},{"start":28105.73,"end":28107.73,"text":"那賴清德總統那時候擔任行政院長的時候"},{"start":28107.73,"end":28110.73,"text":"徐書華縣長擔任立委總諮詢的時候"},{"start":28110.73,"end":28111.73,"text":"有曾經討論"},{"start":28111.73,"end":28115.73,"text":"這個相關單位應該拉到跟國參署的標準規定一致"},{"start":28115.73,"end":28117.73,"text":"就是82年7月21號開始"},{"start":28117.73,"end":28120.73,"text":"那所以賴清德院長那時候有做過幾個承諾"},{"start":28120.73,"end":28123.73,"text":"包括第一還沒有完全承諸的契約"},{"start":28123.73,"end":28125.73,"text":"在不違反的情況底下"},{"start":28125.73,"end":28128.73,"text":"需要符合契約能夠繼續承諸"},{"start":28128.73,"end":28131.73,"text":"那在原鄉裡面有許多百姓受到訴訟的時候"},{"start":28131.73,"end":28133.73,"text":"政府因為越修越嚴格"},{"start":28133.73,"end":28135.73,"text":"管理的要點一直在改變"},{"start":28135.73,"end":28137.73,"text":"那所以說那時候有聽到說"},{"start":28137.73,"end":28140.73,"text":"訴訟案件的話先行暫緩"},{"start":28140.73,"end":28144.73,"text":"但是因為到時候賴院長就轉做其他跑道"},{"start":28144.73,"end":28148.73,"text":"所以說因為目前現在許多的農民不斷的受到追討訴訟"},{"start":28148.73,"end":28150.73,"text":"那請問一下院長"},{"start":28150.73,"end":28154.73,"text":"有沒有可能維持當初賴清德院長這時候的兩個原則"},{"start":28156.27,"end":28158.27,"text":"我先跟委員報告一下"},{"start":28158.27,"end":28161.27,"text":"就是您剛才所提到的國戰組的82721"},{"start":28161.27,"end":28166.27,"text":"跟我們之前在做浪梗地盤查的58527之間"},{"start":28166.27,"end":28168.27,"text":"那事實上已經解決了三分之二"},{"start":28168.27,"end":28174.27,"text":"我講的三分之二就是在第一次非督公告之前的所有的案件"},{"start":28174.27,"end":28179.27,"text":"都可以用那個更正編締的方式去處理"},{"start":28179.27,"end":28181.27,"text":"那現在要處理的方式"},{"start":28181.27,"end":28184.27,"text":"民國75年到82年之間的部分"},{"start":28184.27,"end":28188.27,"text":"那我們已經跟財政部國土署那邊有多次的討論"},{"start":28188.27,"end":28191.27,"text":"那農業部會提一個專案計畫的方式"},{"start":28191.27,"end":28195.27,"text":"去做有系統的去輔導他做那個變更編定"},{"start":28195.27,"end":28198.27,"text":"好謝謝因為那時候的農民他們並不知道是公告"},{"start":28198.27,"end":28202.27,"text":"說他們原本跟做土地圖案就變成台大實驗嶺"},{"start":28202.27,"end":28204.27,"text":"那最後的30秒是不是請院長這邊"},{"start":28204.27,"end":28207.27,"text":"是不是能夠支持剛才部長所說的部分"},{"start":28207.27,"end":28211.27,"text":"來讓他們這個82721之間農民能夠盡快的完成"},{"start":28211.27,"end":28213.27,"text":"這個土地的權益"},{"start":28213.27,"end":28219.27,"text":"農業部已經就委員事先所隨行關心的台大實驗嶺的部分"},{"start":28219.27,"end":28221.27,"text":"已經解開了他剛剛說報告的這個內容"},{"start":28221.27,"end":28224.27,"text":"至於你還說後面有過去訴訟等等的議題"},{"start":28224.27,"end":28227.27,"text":"我想再請農業部我們必須來解決"},{"start":28227.27,"end":28229.27,"text":"一般要解決的話就讓他能夠"},{"start":28234.3,"end":28236.3,"text":"好謝謝尤浩委員質詢"},{"start":28236.3,"end":28238.3,"text":"謝謝主任院長跟相關部會首長的備詢謝謝"},{"start":28239.77,"end":28240.27,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":28243.84,"end":28244.34,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":28245.29,"end":28248.29,"text":"報告我們本日排定的質詢委員已經質詢完畢"},{"start":28248.29,"end":28251.79,"text":"謝謝主任院長、正副院長、各位部會首長的練習、答詢"},{"start":28251.79,"end":28256.29,"text":"10月13號星期二上午9點繼續進行施政報告質詢"},{"start":28256.29,"end":28261.29,"text":"今天非常感謝中和地區張志仁委員從頭到尾陪同我們參與今天的總質詢"},{"start":28261.29,"end":28261.79,"text":"先來休息"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}