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想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我"},{"start":2160,"end":2190,"text":"我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我只想說,我"},{"start":2190,"end":2194.86,"text":"我我"},{"start":2198.18,"end":2205.14,"text":"我在"},{"start":2205.16,"end":2205.62,"text":"林"},{"start":2206.66,"end":2211.22,"text":"開"},{"start":2212.1,"end":2213.2,"text":"來"},{"start":2214.18,"end":2216.94,"text":"朗"},{"start":2217.24,"end":2217.86,"text":"沒"},{"start":2218.26,"end":2218.8,"text":"門"},{"start":2220,"end":2221.44,"text":"王安祥委員"},{"start":2222.44,"end":2223.44,"text":"邱慧如委員"},{"start":2226.04,"end":2227.44,"text":"今日保留條文"},{"start":2228.04,"end":2230.24,"text":"還要介紹現場官員"},{"start":2231.92,"end":2233.64,"text":"勞動部洪生安部長"},{"start":2235.68,"end":2237.88,"text":"勞動保險師陳美女司長"},{"start":2239.36,"end":2241.68,"text":"勞動條件及就業平等師"},{"start":2241.68,"end":2244.24,"text":"黃其亞司長"},{"start":2245.24,"end":2250.24,"text":"勞動法務司副會執事長"},{"start":2251.24,"end":2253.24,"text":"聲音又變小了"},{"start":2254.24,"end":2257.24,"text":"勞動保險局白立貞局長"},{"start":2258.24,"end":2262.24,"text":"勞動力發展署林紀威副組長"},{"start":2263.24,"end":2266.24,"text":"法務部汪南君參事"},{"start":2268.24,"end":2272.24,"text":"財政部附稅署吳秀玲專委"},{"start":2275.24,"end":2281.24,"text":"全序部法規師蕭麗龍專委"},{"start":2284.24,"end":2288.24,"text":"全省司林黛凡專委"},{"start":2289.24,"end":2292.24,"text":"退府司陳韻竹科長"},{"start":2293.24,"end":2298.24,"text":"國防部資源規劃師人力資源處呂政芳處長"},{"start":2299.24,"end":2304.24,"text":"金管會法律事務處林嘉倩專委"},{"start":2306.24,"end":2309.24,"text":"證券期貨局蔡雅雯專委"},{"start":2316.24,"end":2326.24,"text":"教育部人事處姚佩芬專委"},{"start":2327.24,"end":2332.24,"text":"國民級學前教育署廖曼雲專委"},{"start":2333.24,"end":2336.24,"text":"政芳余"},{"start":2344.24,"end":2350.24,"text":"謝坤城專委"},{"start":2356.24,"end":2361.24,"text":"終身教育師紀威揚專委"},{"start":2363.24,"end":2372.24,"text":"經濟部產發署張文玉"},{"start":2373.24,"end":2375.24,"text":"劉德賢"},{"start":2376.24,"end":2380.24,"text":"人事處吳靜瑜"},{"start":2381.24,"end":2388.24,"text":"國營事業管理師林漢隆"},{"start":2391.24,"end":2395.24,"text":"中小級新創企業署林玉琦"},{"start":2396.24,"end":2399.24,"text":"商業發展署孫大偉"},{"start":2400.24,"end":2404.24,"text":"衛福部社會及家庭署簡信隆署長"},{"start":2405.24,"end":2409.24,"text":"長期照顧師白三期檢認濟政"},{"start":2410.24,"end":2415.24,"text":"人事行政總處培訓考用處蔡佩蓉專委"},{"start":2416.24,"end":2421.24,"text":"主計總處公務預算處陳淑萍專委"},{"start":2422.24,"end":2430.24,"text":"基金預算處陳厚偉"},{"start":2430.24,"end":2434.24,"text":"黃厚偉專委"},{"start":2435.24,"end":2441.24,"text":"國家發展委員會社會發展處縣委制專委"},{"start":2446.24,"end":2450.24,"text":"今日跑流條文既有七條希望盡量協商通過"},{"start":2451.24,"end":2453.24,"text":"請各委員綜合考量"},{"start":2454.24,"end":2455.24,"text":"勞動部也隨時溝通"},{"start":2455.24,"end":2457.24,"text":"陳金輝委員"},{"start":2458.24,"end":2465.24,"text":"今天進行方式人事請勞動部先說明"},{"start":2466.24,"end":2468.24,"text":"再請各委員提出意見"},{"start":2469.24,"end":2473.24,"text":"最後會診協商結論請各黨團簽名"},{"start":2474.24,"end":2478.24,"text":"為了讓協商可以快順利"},{"start":2479.24,"end":2482.24,"text":"今天按主題式方式來做處理"},{"start":2482.24,"end":2486.24,"text":"處理順序表已經放在各位委員桌上"},{"start":2487.24,"end":2489.24,"text":"請各位委員參閱"},{"start":2490.24,"end":2494.24,"text":"一個主題事實上是先談育兒"},{"start":2495.24,"end":2500.24,"text":"兩部法案分五個主題來討論"},{"start":2501.24,"end":2506.24,"text":"第一個育兒假跟育兒留職停薪相關適用年齡"},{"start":2507.24,"end":2509.24,"text":"為六歲或八歲的議題"},{"start":2509.24,"end":2514.24,"text":"以及親子教育假等假假病進育兒假"},{"start":2515.24,"end":2521.24,"text":"先就性別平等工作法第十六"},{"start":2522.24,"end":2525.24,"text":"十六之一、十二之二及就業保險法第十一條"},{"start":2526.24,"end":2529.24,"text":"請勞動部先做"},{"start":2530.24,"end":2532.24,"text":"我們先從十六條"},{"start":2533.24,"end":2535.24,"text":"跟各位委員報告"},{"start":2535.24,"end":2537.24,"text":"第一個也很謝謝"},{"start":2538.24,"end":2540.24,"text":"月情委員再次來主持協商"},{"start":2541.24,"end":2544.24,"text":"在我們在委員會的審查裡面"},{"start":2545.24,"end":2548.24,"text":"當時朝野的委員尤其是幾位在黨的委員"},{"start":2549.24,"end":2552.24,"text":"大家都很關心我們這次"},{"start":2553.24,"end":2556.24,"text":"我們把育兒留庭跟育兒假"},{"start":2557.24,"end":2560.24,"text":"在原本行政的版本裡面都拉到六歲以下"},{"start":2561.24,"end":2562.24,"text":"未滿七歲、六歲以下"},{"start":2562.24,"end":2565.24,"text":"各黨的委員都有跟我們提說"},{"start":2566.24,"end":2570.24,"text":"其實小朋友上小一、小二"},{"start":2571.24,"end":2573.24,"text":"狀況還不一定很穩定"},{"start":2574.24,"end":2576.24,"text":"臨時或者需要應變的狀況有時候比較多"},{"start":2577.24,"end":2579.24,"text":"希望當時各黨委員都跟我們說"},{"start":2580.24,"end":2584.24,"text":"能不能把育兒假六十天的部分還是維持"},{"start":2585.24,"end":2590.24,"text":"只是把年紀從六歲以下拉到八歲以下"},{"start":2590.24,"end":2594.24,"text":"經過我們討論跟思考"},{"start":2595.24,"end":2597.24,"text":"我們也跟一些企業界討論"},{"start":2598.24,"end":2601.24,"text":"我們認為應該這部分我們願意來採納"},{"start":2602.24,"end":2603.24,"text":"但是企業界也有提到一點"},{"start":2604.24,"end":2607.24,"text":"他們也希望避免一些比較極端的狀況發生"},{"start":2608.24,"end":2610.24,"text":"所以我們可能在下面修正文字的時候"},{"start":2611.24,"end":2614.24,"text":"希望我們有再加上有些文字的修訂的部分"},{"start":2615.24,"end":2617.24,"text":"未來可以在執法裡面考慮進去"},{"start":2617.24,"end":2620.24,"text":"所以我們包括一些授權的部分"},{"start":2621.24,"end":2623.24,"text":"我們也想修訂一下有加上限制兩個字"},{"start":2624.24,"end":2625.24,"text":"16條的部分"},{"start":2626.24,"end":2628.24,"text":"剛剛講16條16之1"},{"start":2629.24,"end":2630.24,"text":"我們如果一起講的話"},{"start":2631.24,"end":2633.24,"text":"我們願意把它改到八歲"},{"start":2636.24,"end":2640.24,"text":"因為現在目前當初我們也是期待"},{"start":2641.24,"end":2642.24,"text":"尤其我這邊我也覺得說"},{"start":2643.24,"end":2646.24,"text":"今天小一、小二本來就是就讀全天的話"},{"start":2647.24,"end":2649.24,"text":"只要一天而已"},{"start":2650.24,"end":2652.24,"text":"事實上下午的時段裡邊"},{"start":2653.24,"end":2655.24,"text":"或者是說安吉班的一些銜接"},{"start":2656.24,"end":2657.24,"text":"可能會有些問題或是有些需求"},{"start":2658.24,"end":2663.24,"text":"所以希望能夠在八歲前都能夠來使用"},{"start":2664.24,"end":2666.24,"text":"我們的育兒假這一塊"},{"start":2667.24,"end":2669.24,"text":"現在我覺得勞動部也同意"},{"start":2670.24,"end":2672.24,"text":"我們覺得非常好的一個"},{"start":2673.24,"end":2675.24,"text":"剛一些商就能夠得到這樣的答案"},{"start":2675.24,"end":2677.24,"text":"我們非常的熱切"},{"start":2678.24,"end":2679.24,"text":"王玉敏委員"},{"start":2680.24,"end":2681.24,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉"},{"start":2682.24,"end":2684.24,"text":"首先我也要肯定勞動部"},{"start":2685.24,"end":2687.24,"text":"在這個議題上面從善如流"},{"start":2688.24,"end":2690.24,"text":"因為我記得我們在委員會"},{"start":2691.24,"end":2694.24,"text":"其實針對這一條真的大家論辯很久"},{"start":2695.24,"end":2697.24,"text":"我自己也是非常的堅持"},{"start":2698.24,"end":2701.24,"text":"因為我看到的就是實務上真的是家長的需要"},{"start":2702.24,"end":2704.24,"text":"今天如果政府已經要釋出善意"},{"start":2705.24,"end":2709.24,"text":"真的把這樣子的一個年紀延到八歲以下的子女"},{"start":2710.24,"end":2714.24,"text":"真的是造福了非常多家裡面有年幼小孩的家長"},{"start":2715.24,"end":2718.24,"text":"因為低年級的孩子真的很多的狀況"},{"start":2719.24,"end":2720.24,"text":"包括可能是生病"},{"start":2721.24,"end":2724.24,"text":"然後他發生之後需要的陪伴"},{"start":2725.24,"end":2728.24,"text":"所以這一個部分協商到現在"},{"start":2729.24,"end":2732.24,"text":"勞動部願意釋放出善意"},{"start":2732.24,"end":2735.24,"text":"這個采納委員的版本"},{"start":2736.24,"end":2738.24,"text":"那我想我是感到非常的欣慰"},{"start":2739.24,"end":2743.24,"text":"因為這個的確是造福這一些家裡有年幼子女的爸媽"},{"start":2744.24,"end":2746.24,"text":"所以我表達肯定"},{"start":2747.24,"end":2749.24,"text":"那也希望在這個落實的過程當中"},{"start":2750.24,"end":2752.24,"text":"我們真的可以讓這些家長可以更安心"},{"start":2753.24,"end":2754.24,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2759.24,"end":2760.24,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":2760.24,"end":2761.24,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2762.24,"end":2766.24,"text":"就是說因為本來好像是停留在討論第16條的"},{"start":2767.24,"end":2768.24,"text":"育嬰留庭可以申請的年紀"},{"start":2769.24,"end":2771.24,"text":"那討論討論者就來到了"},{"start":2772.24,"end":2773.24,"text":"也一併把親子假討論進去"},{"start":2774.24,"end":2777.24,"text":"那我們基本上我們親子假台灣民眾黨所提出的版本"},{"start":2778.24,"end":2782.24,"text":"針對親子假的部分是希望說能夠讓父母"},{"start":2783.24,"end":2787.24,"text":"具有這個12歲以前的孩童之前的父母"},{"start":2787.24,"end":2790.24,"text":"他們也都能夠請這個親子假"},{"start":2791.24,"end":2793.24,"text":"那當然勞動部在這邊願意放寬到8歲"},{"start":2794.24,"end":2797.24,"text":"但我們認為說從8歲到12歲這四個年齡層"},{"start":2798.24,"end":2803.24,"text":"其實雖然他們相較於幼兒相較於國小一二年級的學生"},{"start":2804.24,"end":2808.24,"text":"已經比較成熟了但是他們仍然是需要父母的關懷跟照顧"},{"start":2809.24,"end":2814.24,"text":"那不論是在健康上醫療上或者是活動上教育上"},{"start":2814.24,"end":2820.24,"text":"都是需要都是會有一些需求也許需要父母的介入"},{"start":2821.24,"end":2822.24,"text":"需要父母帶他去看醫生"},{"start":2823.24,"end":2825.24,"text":"希望父母有一些措施能夠維持他的健康"},{"start":2826.24,"end":2828.24,"text":"那當然這就有賴於父母撥出時間"},{"start":2829.24,"end":2834.24,"text":"那如果沒有足夠的假可能對於這些90、11、12年級的學生來說"},{"start":2835.24,"end":2840.24,"text":"他們接受這些相關照護的機會就會受到影響受到剝奪"},{"start":2840.24,"end":2843.24,"text":"所以我們在這邊主張說請指教的部分"},{"start":2844.24,"end":2846.24,"text":"是不是能夠提升到12歲"},{"start":2847.24,"end":2852.24,"text":"然後讓這些孩童都能夠一視同仁的受到足夠的關照"},{"start":2853.24,"end":2854.24,"text":"以上說明謝謝"},{"start":2855.24,"end":2856.24,"text":"好陳靜薇委員"},{"start":2857.24,"end":2859.24,"text":"謝謝我的版本也是到8歲"},{"start":2860.24,"end":2864.24,"text":"所以肯定勞動部願意把6歲延到8歲這樣子"},{"start":2865.24,"end":2868.24,"text":"那我是反映很多家長的心聲"},{"start":2868.24,"end":2871.24,"text":"因為他們的意思是說在三年級之前"},{"start":2872.24,"end":2874.24,"text":"其實每個禮拜只有一天是上整天的課"},{"start":2875.24,"end":2878.24,"text":"有四天是半天對他們來說要做後續這個安排"},{"start":2879.24,"end":2882.24,"text":"是真的很麻煩那也很燒錢"},{"start":2883.24,"end":2886.24,"text":"另外不管是在學校或者是之後在安親班"},{"start":2887.24,"end":2889.24,"text":"如果有遇到多人同時生病"},{"start":2890.24,"end":2893.24,"text":"其實這個生病的狀況也會讓他們疲於奔命"},{"start":2894.24,"end":2896.24,"text":"就沒有辦法有的時候小孩是好好的"},{"start":2896.24,"end":2899.24,"text":"可是因為其他人生病所以就必須臨時取消工作"},{"start":2900.24,"end":2902.24,"text":"然後去接小孩回家等等"},{"start":2903.24,"end":2907.24,"text":"那第三個當然就是從這個上小學以前"},{"start":2908.24,"end":2912.24,"text":"幼稚園到小學的銜接小朋友心態上會無法適應"},{"start":2913.24,"end":2917.24,"text":"所以那個時候也會需要更多家長的照顧還有關心"},{"start":2918.24,"end":2920.24,"text":"以及陪伴他們就進入這個學習"},{"start":2921.24,"end":2924.24,"text":"因為突然要寫比較多的作業以及有考試這樣"},{"start":2924.24,"end":2927.24,"text":"心態上小朋友也需要這樣子的協助"},{"start":2928.24,"end":2931.24,"text":"所以在這邊也是支持跟謝謝肯定"},{"start":2932.24,"end":2937.24,"text":"把保障涵蓋到八歲讓家長能夠真正的運用這些價別"},{"start":2938.24,"end":2939.24,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2940.24,"end":2941.24,"text":"好 泛民委員"},{"start":2944.24,"end":2947.24,"text":"我自己是在2024年4月的版本"},{"start":2948.24,"end":2951.24,"text":"就有提出說把育嬰留庭的延伸歲數到八歲"},{"start":2951.24,"end":2953.24,"text":"那主要就是大家所提到的"},{"start":2954.24,"end":2955.24,"text":"因為八歲的人小一小二"},{"start":2956.24,"end":2959.24,"text":"那這部分其實學校感染病的狀況"},{"start":2960.24,"end":2963.24,"text":"家長需要出現還有就是家長的接送等等"},{"start":2964.24,"end":2965.24,"text":"都非常的需要"},{"start":2966.24,"end":2971.24,"text":"那這邊也提一下就是說其實南韓在2014年就修法改到八歲"},{"start":2972.24,"end":2975.24,"text":"那他們現在正在討論的是延到十二歲"},{"start":2976.24,"end":2979.24,"text":"那今天沒有辦法到場的張亞林委員請我幫忙跟大家講"},{"start":2979.24,"end":2985.24,"text":"是說他希望他非常肯定勞動部這一次能夠延長到八歲"},{"start":2986.24,"end":2989.24,"text":"那他有那個附帶決議希望勞動部去研議以下"},{"start":2990.24,"end":2992.24,"text":"就是未來能夠繼續再延長"},{"start":2993.24,"end":2995.24,"text":"好 我想那個部分是他希望我一起表達"},{"start":2996.24,"end":2998.24,"text":"肯定勞動部跟大家今天能夠有這個共識"},{"start":2999.24,"end":3000.24,"text":"以上"},{"start":3001.24,"end":3002.24,"text":"繼續委員"},{"start":3003.24,"end":3004.24,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":3005.24,"end":3007.24,"text":"我想這個議題大家也真的都討論的非常多"},{"start":3007.24,"end":3008.24,"text":"八歲以下"},{"start":3009.24,"end":3011.24,"text":"有沒有什麼證據需要更好的照顧模式"},{"start":3012.24,"end":3013.24,"text":"這是大家非常關心"},{"start":3014.24,"end":3015.24,"text":"那謝謝勞動部能夠"},{"start":3016.24,"end":3020.24,"text":"在瞭解大家的這個訴求跟需求之下"},{"start":3021.24,"end":3022.24,"text":"也做統一這樣的處理模式"},{"start":3023.24,"end":3024.24,"text":"那我這邊在追加"},{"start":3025.24,"end":3030.24,"text":"所瞭解的就是即使三到七歲的學齡前跟剛入學的兒童"},{"start":3031.24,"end":3035.24,"text":"也就是校園跟家庭群聚感染中最常見得到流感的一群"},{"start":3035.24,"end":3037.24,"text":"所以在這個前提之下"},{"start":3038.24,"end":3042.24,"text":"如果能夠把這個相關的法案做適當的處理的話"},{"start":3043.24,"end":3045.24,"text":"我想大家都會心然樂歉"},{"start":3046.24,"end":3048.24,"text":"那為什麼八歲以下的兒童容易感染"},{"start":3049.24,"end":3050.24,"text":"當然是有它一定的理由"},{"start":3051.24,"end":3052.24,"text":"包括免疫系統還沒有發育完全"},{"start":3053.24,"end":3055.24,"text":"群聚環境容易傳播快速等等"},{"start":3056.24,"end":3057.24,"text":"這個都是大家可以理解"},{"start":3058.24,"end":3060.24,"text":"也是希望能夠得到最好照顧的部分"},{"start":3061.24,"end":3063.24,"text":"所以我非常同意這樣的一個處理模式"},{"start":3063.24,"end":3064.24,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3065.24,"end":3068.24,"text":"好那目前看起來大家都蠻有共識的"},{"start":3069.24,"end":3071.24,"text":"就是八歲大家是非常接受"},{"start":3072.24,"end":3075.24,"text":"而且也符合不管是家長提出來的需求"},{"start":3076.24,"end":3077.24,"text":"或者是我們社會民間團體的一些期待"},{"start":3078.24,"end":3081.24,"text":"那剛剛邱慧如委員有講到那十二歲這一塊"},{"start":3082.24,"end":3085.24,"text":"那請我們的勞動部再做說明"},{"start":3086.24,"end":3088.24,"text":"那個我想要跟大家說明一下"},{"start":3089.24,"end":3092.24,"text":"因為其實因為大家都會講到比方說韓國"},{"start":3093.24,"end":3095.24,"text":"其實韓國現在的育兒"},{"start":3096.24,"end":3098.24,"text":"它的留庭制度其實就是到八歲了"},{"start":3099.24,"end":3101.24,"text":"那我們現在看到幾個國家他們的"},{"start":3102.24,"end":3104.24,"text":"他們的親子假其實"},{"start":3105.24,"end":3107.24,"text":"甚至他們的單日親子假可能是沒有薪水的"},{"start":3108.24,"end":3110.24,"text":"他們單日親子假是沒有薪水的"},{"start":3111.24,"end":3113.24,"text":"那我們其實這一次是透過了這個制度"},{"start":3114.24,"end":3116.24,"text":"跟育兒留庭制度的勾連"},{"start":3117.24,"end":3119.24,"text":"甚至是請育兒假的六十天"},{"start":3120.24,"end":3121.24,"text":"都是有薪水的"},{"start":3121.24,"end":3123.24,"text":"這幾乎是相比於日本韓國"},{"start":3124.24,"end":3126.24,"text":"一個非常非常重要的突破"},{"start":3127.24,"end":3129.24,"text":"所以我們是真的很希望說可不可以"},{"start":3130.24,"end":3132.24,"text":"今天剛才在座其實委員我覺得共識度好像蠻高的"},{"start":3133.24,"end":3136.24,"text":"有沒有機會我們可以在這個地方先讓這件事情"},{"start":3137.24,"end":3139.24,"text":"先做一個確定的定案"},{"start":3140.24,"end":3141.24,"text":"就是用育兒假的方式"},{"start":3142.24,"end":3144.24,"text":"然後我跟大家說明這個育兒假是到"},{"start":3145.24,"end":3147.24,"text":"小孩未滿九歲以前"},{"start":3148.24,"end":3149.24,"text":"總共有六十天"},{"start":3149.24,"end":3151.24,"text":"就是爸媽單一一方就有六十天"},{"start":3152.24,"end":3154.24,"text":"雙方加起來會是一百二十天"},{"start":3155.24,"end":3157.24,"text":"其實兩個小孩的話就在double"},{"start":3158.24,"end":3160.24,"text":"那這應該是相當夠用的啦"},{"start":3161.24,"end":3164.24,"text":"那我們是希望說能不能先用這個方式"},{"start":3165.24,"end":3169.24,"text":"因為我們現在重點是要讓這個育兒假是有薪水的"},{"start":3170.24,"end":3172.24,"text":"今天如果是沒薪水的話"},{"start":3173.24,"end":3176.24,"text":"可是重點是我們是要讓他有薪水的"},{"start":3176.24,"end":3182.24,"text":"所以是不是可以還是希望能夠爭取說能不能在這個16條跟16條之一"},{"start":3183.24,"end":3185.24,"text":"我們可以把這個文字給先把它確定"},{"start":3186.24,"end":3188.24,"text":"因為這是很重要的一步"},{"start":3189.24,"end":3191.24,"text":"那我們也願意考量上次大家在委員會裡面"},{"start":3192.24,"end":3194.24,"text":"大家的討論說特別考慮小一小二"},{"start":3195.24,"end":3198.24,"text":"他們的緊急狀況臨時狀況意外狀況比較多"},{"start":3199.24,"end":3204.24,"text":"那還沒有那麼穩定我記得之前都是說他們甚至上全天的自述是比較少的"},{"start":3204.24,"end":3206.24,"text":"然後沒有那麼穩定所以到8歲"},{"start":3207.24,"end":3209.24,"text":"韓國也是因為這個原因所以到8歲了"},{"start":3210.24,"end":3212.24,"text":"我們是不是可以先很希望可以取得委員的共識"},{"start":3213.24,"end":3215.24,"text":"我們先把這個概念給落下來好不好"},{"start":3216.24,"end":3222.24,"text":"因為我想勞工博士的解釋我也覺得我非常的贊同啦"},{"start":3223.24,"end":3228.24,"text":"因為為什麼因為當初考慮到我們幼稚園階段上來小一小二"},{"start":3229.24,"end":3232.24,"text":"又只有上一個全天然後其他四天事實上是半天"},{"start":3232.24,"end":3235.24,"text":"的確家長有很多事情要協助做處理"},{"start":3236.24,"end":3238.24,"text":"譬如說安靜班銜接不上的時候"},{"start":3239.24,"end":3242.24,"text":"或者是孩子突然真的事實上有一些生病的狀況"},{"start":3243.24,"end":3244.24,"text":"又沒有辦法送託"},{"start":3245.24,"end":3247.24,"text":"那在這種狀況底下我們希望到8歲"},{"start":3248.24,"end":3250.24,"text":"我覺得在考慮政策的時候可能還要去思考到一件事情"},{"start":3251.24,"end":3252.24,"text":"你突然要到很極大的時候"},{"start":3253.24,"end":3257.24,"text":"如果產業或者是考慮到女性有這麼多的這些"},{"start":3257.24,"end":3259.24,"text":"獲得育嬰這些需求"},{"start":3260.24,"end":3264.24,"text":"最後我覺得對於女性或是對於年輕家庭事實上反而更不利"},{"start":3265.24,"end":3267.24,"text":"那現在已經事實上是階段性在走"},{"start":3268.24,"end":3274.24,"text":"我認為應該目前我想不管事實上是陳金輝委員或王玉美委員"},{"start":3275.24,"end":3280.24,"text":"甚至於王智駿或范雨委員這邊都是希望已經到達這樣8歲"},{"start":3281.24,"end":3282.24,"text":"我們都已經覺得是能接受的"},{"start":3283.24,"end":3285.24,"text":"所以我還是要拜託邱惠如委員"},{"start":3285.24,"end":3287.24,"text":"因為我覺得如果花時間在這邊很多的話"},{"start":3288.24,"end":3289.24,"text":"我們後面都沒有辦法公正"},{"start":3290.24,"end":3295.24,"text":"如果說今天你提到的像親子假裡面的一些價別裡面要考慮的話"},{"start":3296.24,"end":3297.24,"text":"我認為事實上是可以併到育兒假"},{"start":3298.24,"end":3299.24,"text":"那就用勞動不修正"},{"start":3300.24,"end":3301.24,"text":"因為當初我在質詢的時候也有要求說"},{"start":3302.24,"end":3307.24,"text":"像學校開的親子座談會很多有些東西都有一些需求"},{"start":3308.24,"end":3309.24,"text":"事實上是家長要配合的"},{"start":3310.24,"end":3311.24,"text":"那併到那邊去"},{"start":3311.24,"end":3314.24,"text":"價別的那個方式上寬"},{"start":3315.24,"end":3316.24,"text":"可是不要又再另起一個"},{"start":3317.24,"end":3320.24,"text":"因為第一個又有親子教育家又有育兒假"},{"start":3321.24,"end":3322.24,"text":"我覺得這也一方面是造成混亂"},{"start":3323.24,"end":3326.24,"text":"是不是能夠同意也讓我們加速快一點去"},{"start":3327.24,"end":3331.24,"text":"否則的話我目前收到不管是民間團體或家長都很期盼"},{"start":3332.24,"end":3336.24,"text":"這法趕快通過之後明年他們可以馬上來使用"},{"start":3337.24,"end":3338.24,"text":"以上"},{"start":3338.24,"end":3339.24,"text":"我可以那個回覆嗎"},{"start":3340.24,"end":3341.24,"text":"大家好"},{"start":3342.24,"end":3345.24,"text":"因為最主要就是我們台灣民眾黨提出的版本"},{"start":3346.24,"end":3347.24,"text":"除了有育嬰留庭的假"},{"start":3348.24,"end":3349.24,"text":"然後也有親子假然後有親子教育假"},{"start":3350.24,"end":3352.24,"text":"那關於假的部分還有一個叫家庭照顧假"},{"start":3353.24,"end":3354.24,"text":"那其實我們都是有感於說"},{"start":3355.24,"end":3358.24,"text":"其實台灣就先別撇開這個勞工家庭"},{"start":3359.24,"end":3362.24,"text":"一般的勞工其實我們的這個勞工的工時"},{"start":3363.24,"end":3364.24,"text":"其實真的是亞洲國家第二"},{"start":3365.24,"end":3366.24,"text":"世界第五"},{"start":3366.24,"end":3369.24,"text":"所以在這麼多工時的情況之下"},{"start":3370.24,"end":3371.24,"text":"其實勞工的休息很必要"},{"start":3372.24,"end":3373.24,"text":"更何況是養育育女的家庭"},{"start":3374.24,"end":3375.24,"text":"所以我們在這種思維之下"},{"start":3376.24,"end":3378.24,"text":"想讓勞工有多一點時間休息體力之外"},{"start":3379.24,"end":3382.24,"text":"然後也有多一點時間來照顧他們的這個子女"},{"start":3383.24,"end":3384.24,"text":"所以我們才在價別的創設上"},{"start":3385.24,"end":3387.24,"text":"給了這麼多的假這樣子"},{"start":3388.24,"end":3392.24,"text":"那因為剛我們都是聚焦在討論這個育嬰留庭假"},{"start":3393.24,"end":3395.24,"text":"還有這個親子假"},{"start":3396.24,"end":3397.24,"text":"那我們的十六條之二"},{"start":3398.24,"end":3400.24,"text":"親子教育假還沒有被討論到"},{"start":3401.24,"end":3405.24,"text":"剛才早委當然就有提到我們的親子教育假"},{"start":3406.24,"end":3407.24,"text":"那覺得說能夠吸收"},{"start":3408.24,"end":3410.24,"text":"那我們這邊還有勞動部這邊也認為說"},{"start":3411.24,"end":3413.24,"text":"是不是可以把我們的親子教育假跟親子假"},{"start":3414.24,"end":3419.24,"text":"吸收進去那個這個育嬰留庭九個月育兒假的"},{"start":3420.24,"end":3423.24,"text":"就是吸收進去育兒假的範圍之內"},{"start":3423.24,"end":3425.24,"text":"那我們是覺得說"},{"start":3426.24,"end":3428.24,"text":"每個價別有它的獨立性跟特殊性"},{"start":3429.24,"end":3430.24,"text":"還有不同的意義性這樣子"},{"start":3431.24,"end":3432.24,"text":"這第一點"},{"start":3433.24,"end":3434.24,"text":"那第二點就是說"},{"start":3435.24,"end":3436.24,"text":"因為剛當然我有都有聽到大家就覺得說"},{"start":3437.24,"end":3438.24,"text":"從目前的六歲提升到八歲"},{"start":3439.24,"end":3440.24,"text":"其實也是一個進展了"},{"start":3441.24,"end":3442.24,"text":"那我們這邊會覺得說"},{"start":3443.24,"end":3445.24,"text":"當然先求有再求好是一種思維"},{"start":3446.24,"end":3448.24,"text":"但是如果在難得修法一次"},{"start":3449.24,"end":3450.24,"text":"那如果能夠在這修法的過程當中"},{"start":3450.24,"end":3453.24,"text":"也一步到位的把該照顧的孩童照顧到"},{"start":3454.24,"end":3456.24,"text":"其實我們台灣民眾黨是從這個方式"},{"start":3457.24,"end":3458.24,"text":"角度來動心起念"},{"start":3459.24,"end":3460.24,"text":"然後做這樣的堅持"},{"start":3461.24,"end":3462.24,"text":"以上說明謝謝"},{"start":3463.24,"end":3464.24,"text":"勞動部"},{"start":3465.24,"end":3466.24,"text":"我們可不可以"},{"start":3467.24,"end":3468.24,"text":"十六條十六條之一十六條之二"},{"start":3469.24,"end":3470.24,"text":"大家一併的討論"},{"start":3471.24,"end":3473.24,"text":"我是在想我們想提出可不可以提出一個做法"},{"start":3474.24,"end":3475.24,"text":"想跟各位委員來商量"},{"start":3476.24,"end":3478.24,"text":"因為看到民眾黨也有所謂的親子教育假"},{"start":3478.24,"end":3479.24,"text":"那我們認為親子教育"},{"start":3480.24,"end":3484.24,"text":"比方說學校要開親私會運動會"},{"start":3485.24,"end":3486.24,"text":"那這個事情都"},{"start":3487.24,"end":3488.24,"text":"都有"},{"start":3489.24,"end":3490.24,"text":"的確都有一些這樣的需求"},{"start":3491.24,"end":3494.24,"text":"那大家我們的現在想規劃的育兒假"},{"start":3495.24,"end":3496.24,"text":"其實總共是"},{"start":3497.24,"end":3498.24,"text":"單一個爸爸媽媽的話"},{"start":3499.24,"end":3500.24,"text":"是有六十天加起來一百二十天"},{"start":3501.24,"end":3503.24,"text":"其實我們真的是有問過一些業界"},{"start":3504.24,"end":3505.24,"text":"他們也反應"},{"start":3506.24,"end":3507.24,"text":"就他們其實不太希望分得太細"},{"start":3508.24,"end":3510.24,"text":"其實反而綜合運用是比較可以靈活使用的"},{"start":3511.24,"end":3512.24,"text":"我的意思是我想跟各位講比方說"},{"start":3513.24,"end":3514.24,"text":"如果"},{"start":3515.24,"end":3517.24,"text":"一年一天的親子教育假"},{"start":3518.24,"end":3520.24,"text":"可是其實一年可能不一定只有一次的親私會"},{"start":3521.24,"end":3522.24,"text":"可能會有兩次三次的親私會"},{"start":3523.24,"end":3525.24,"text":"也可能會要再加運動會"},{"start":3526.24,"end":3528.24,"text":"就是每年的這個天數比例其實不一定都是一樣的"},{"start":3529.24,"end":3531.24,"text":"有的時候小朋友是在小學以下"},{"start":3532.24,"end":3534.24,"text":"有的時候在小學的時候其實又不太一樣"},{"start":3535.24,"end":3537.24,"text":"所以反而用一個比較大的名義"},{"start":3538.24,"end":3540.24,"text":"的項目然後讓大家可以綜合去使用"},{"start":3541.24,"end":3543.24,"text":"其實對大家反而相對是比較靈活的"},{"start":3544.24,"end":3546.24,"text":"那在很多的人資HR上也跟我們說"},{"start":3547.24,"end":3548.24,"text":"他們希望不要分得太細"},{"start":3549.24,"end":3551.24,"text":"因為那個分得太細對他們價別的管理"},{"start":3552.24,"end":3554.24,"text":"人事制度的管理上面也會產生一些困擾"},{"start":3555.24,"end":3556.24,"text":"所以我們很樂意這樣子好不好"},{"start":3557.24,"end":3560.24,"text":"就是我們樂意把剛剛民眾黨委員講的這個"},{"start":3561.24,"end":3565.24,"text":"你們很在意的這個親子教育假的這個學校裡面的活動的部分"},{"start":3565.24,"end":3571.24,"text":"其實我們把它寫明在育兒假裡面可以做使用"},{"start":3572.24,"end":3573.24,"text":"我們把它寫明進去"},{"start":3574.24,"end":3580.24,"text":"因為現在育兒假的天數真的是還算夠的還算不錯的"},{"start":3581.24,"end":3582.24,"text":"那在這個育兒假天數裡面"},{"start":3583.24,"end":3584.24,"text":"就讓他可以在這裡面直接去使用"},{"start":3585.24,"end":3586.24,"text":"所以他就反而可以在這裡面比較綜合"},{"start":3587.24,"end":3589.24,"text":"因為有些家庭他可能是學校活動比較多"},{"start":3590.24,"end":3592.24,"text":"有些家庭可能小朋友身體比較體弱"},{"start":3592.24,"end":3597.24,"text":"其實每個家庭的小朋友的狀況不見得都一樣的情況之下"},{"start":3598.24,"end":3600.24,"text":"可不可以讓大家比較有一個綜合的名目可以使用"},{"start":3601.24,"end":3603.24,"text":"這部分是不是可以請民眾黨來協助考慮"},{"start":3604.24,"end":3606.24,"text":"那大家之前講到特別講到小一小二的需求"},{"start":3607.24,"end":3609.24,"text":"所以我們也特別把小一小二的需求給考慮進去"},{"start":3610.24,"end":3612.24,"text":"那這部分也是比照韓國的做法"},{"start":3613.24,"end":3615.24,"text":"比照韓國也是到八歲"},{"start":3616.24,"end":3617.24,"text":"所以這部分我們也是從善如流"},{"start":3618.24,"end":3619.24,"text":"所以很希望我們可以在這個地方"},{"start":3620.24,"end":3621.24,"text":"所以剛剛我們講到幾個問題"},{"start":3622.24,"end":3623.24,"text":"我一併在這邊再重複一次"},{"start":3624.24,"end":3625.24,"text":"不管是育兒流停"},{"start":3626.24,"end":3629.24,"text":"或者是育兒假都可以到八歲以下"},{"start":3630.24,"end":3631.24,"text":"也就是未滿九歲以前"},{"start":3632.24,"end":3633.24,"text":"是未滿九歲以前"},{"start":3634.24,"end":3635.24,"text":"那剛剛"},{"start":3636.24,"end":3638.24,"text":"那我們是希望把現在各個委員提到"},{"start":3639.24,"end":3640.24,"text":"包括像親子假包括像親子教育假"},{"start":3641.24,"end":3642.24,"text":"其實我們就把他放到這個育兒假的概念裡面"},{"start":3643.24,"end":3644.24,"text":"來去綜合的使用"},{"start":3645.24,"end":3647.24,"text":"因為綜合使用反而對大家來說才是比較彈性的"},{"start":3649.24,"end":3650.24,"text":"會是一個比較彈性的做法"},{"start":3650.24,"end":3652.24,"text":"因為每個家庭的小孩狀況真的都不一樣"},{"start":3653.24,"end":3654.24,"text":"讓他可以綜合的去調度"},{"start":3655.24,"end":3656.24,"text":"反而他的彈性空間比較大"},{"start":3657.24,"end":3659.24,"text":"對勞工來說對家長來說彈性空間比較大"},{"start":3660.24,"end":3661.24,"text":"對於公司來說"},{"start":3662.24,"end":3663.24,"text":"他的人事制度也不用切分的太細"},{"start":3664.24,"end":3666.24,"text":"不然會造成他很多管理上面的困擾"},{"start":3667.24,"end":3668.24,"text":"即便給的數字是一樣的"},{"start":3669.24,"end":3670.24,"text":"所以這部分可不可以請"},{"start":3671.24,"end":3672.24,"text":"林中南我們可以綜合的考慮這樣"},{"start":3673.24,"end":3675.24,"text":"我了解就是說價別整併進去"},{"start":3676.24,"end":3677.24,"text":"形式上被吸收"},{"start":3678.24,"end":3679.24,"text":"實質上是可以享有這個價"},{"start":3680.24,"end":3682.24,"text":"但是我們這裡會有個考量就是稅數"},{"start":3683.24,"end":3684.24,"text":"稅數其實是最主要的攻防點"},{"start":3685.24,"end":3687.24,"text":"因為部長您這邊就是提到8歲"},{"start":3688.24,"end":3690.24,"text":"但我們台灣民眾黨真的想替多一點的家庭"},{"start":3691.24,"end":3692.24,"text":"來做一個爭取這樣"},{"start":3693.24,"end":3694.24,"text":"所以我們這邊還是12歲的一個看法"},{"start":3695.24,"end":3696.24,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":3700.24,"end":3701.24,"text":"我們在想可不可以有一個做法"},{"start":3702.24,"end":3703.24,"text":"接近民眾黨考慮"},{"start":3704.24,"end":3707.24,"text":"比方說現在家庭照顧價比較是在家庭照顧的範疇裡面"},{"start":3707.24,"end":3709.24,"text":"如果大家很在意說比方說"},{"start":3710.24,"end":3711.24,"text":"親師會到12歲的話"},{"start":3712.24,"end":3714.24,"text":"我們來讓家庭照顧的範疇裡面"},{"start":3715.24,"end":3717.24,"text":"也可以把親師會這部分給放進去"},{"start":3718.24,"end":3721.24,"text":"我們也把親師會放在家庭照顧價"},{"start":3722.24,"end":3725.24,"text":"可以使用的就這種學校活動也把它放到裡面去"},{"start":3726.24,"end":3728.24,"text":"那這就沒有只限於8歲以下了"},{"start":3729.24,"end":3731.24,"text":"這就沒有限於8歲以下了"},{"start":3732.24,"end":3733.24,"text":"這就是幾乎是小朋友部分"},{"start":3734.24,"end":3736.24,"text":"甚至到15 16歲如果高中需要親師會"},{"start":3737.24,"end":3738.24,"text":"都可以把它放進去"},{"start":3739.24,"end":3741.24,"text":"因為你這邊如果你併到育兒價"},{"start":3742.24,"end":3743.24,"text":"其實是有薪資給付的"},{"start":3744.24,"end":3746.24,"text":"但是家庭照顧價那邊就變成沒有這樣子"},{"start":3747.24,"end":3748.24,"text":"但是我跟民眾黨報告說"},{"start":3749.24,"end":3751.24,"text":"比方說像韓國他們的單天可以請的這種親子假"},{"start":3752.24,"end":3753.24,"text":"也是都沒有薪資給付的"},{"start":3754.24,"end":3757.24,"text":"我們是透過了一個跟育兒流亭勾連的方式"},{"start":3758.24,"end":3759.24,"text":"才讓他下面的部分以下的部分"},{"start":3760.24,"end":3761.24,"text":"這個育兒假是可以有薪資給付"},{"start":3762.24,"end":3764.24,"text":"不然一般其他的國家單日請的這種親子假"},{"start":3765.24,"end":3766.24,"text":"也沒有薪資給付的"},{"start":3767.24,"end":3769.24,"text":"要不就是老闆要付老闆自己付"},{"start":3770.24,"end":3771.24,"text":"要嘛就是無薪"},{"start":3774.24,"end":3776.24,"text":"我們這次真的是用了一個比較創舉的方式"},{"start":3777.24,"end":3781.24,"text":"才讓這個現在8歲以下的都可以有薪資給付"},{"start":3782.24,"end":3783.24,"text":"那大家覺得這是需要最高的"},{"start":3784.24,"end":3785.24,"text":"所以我們認為讓他開誠變成有薪資給付"},{"start":3786.24,"end":3787.24,"text":"也是比較好的"},{"start":3788.24,"end":3789.24,"text":"那用途上還是可以用"},{"start":3790.24,"end":3791.24,"text":"可是我都參考其他國家的話"},{"start":3792.24,"end":3795.24,"text":"他們其實在他們的那種類似像親子假"},{"start":3795.24,"end":3797.24,"text":"單日的那個部分也是沒有薪資給付的"},{"start":3801.24,"end":3804.24,"text":"王振旭委員之後就范雲委員"},{"start":3805.24,"end":3806.24,"text":"然後王玉明委員剛剛舉手"},{"start":3807.24,"end":3808.24,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":3809.24,"end":3811.24,"text":"我剛剛是有想要表達說"},{"start":3812.24,"end":3813.24,"text":"其實大家共識都非常高"},{"start":3814.24,"end":3815.24,"text":"不管16或16-1"},{"start":3816.24,"end":3819.24,"text":"那至於民眾黨全會務委員所提到的部分"},{"start":3820.24,"end":3821.24,"text":"如果依照部長的說明"},{"start":3822.24,"end":3824.24,"text":"其實也在執行上是沒有困難"},{"start":3825.24,"end":3829.24,"text":"所以如果能夠透過這樣共識的處理的話"},{"start":3830.24,"end":3834.24,"text":"我希望能夠趕快讓可以得到這個法案"},{"start":3835.24,"end":3836.24,"text":"帶來的這些好處的部分"},{"start":3837.24,"end":3838.24,"text":"可以趕快讓他通過"},{"start":3839.24,"end":3840.24,"text":"應該是大家很期待的"},{"start":3841.24,"end":3842.24,"text":"好 范雲委員"},{"start":3843.24,"end":3846.24,"text":"CPN我也想幫那個婦女新智基金會"},{"start":3847.24,"end":3849.24,"text":"他們有一個希望跨黨派立委"},{"start":3850.24,"end":3853.24,"text":"可以一起支持的兩大優先重點跟大家講"},{"start":3853.24,"end":3857.24,"text":"因為我想大家包含剛剛那個民眾黨講的"},{"start":3858.24,"end":3859.24,"text":"就理想上都很好"},{"start":3860.24,"end":3862.24,"text":"可是就是改革有它的優先順位"},{"start":3863.24,"end":3864.24,"text":"那婦女新智基金會希望這一波"},{"start":3865.24,"end":3868.24,"text":"第一個最重要最順序希望最優先的"},{"start":3869.24,"end":3871.24,"text":"就是延長育嬰流程適用年齡到8歲"},{"start":3872.24,"end":3874.24,"text":"當然它的名稱就會是育兒"},{"start":3875.24,"end":3879.24,"text":"那第二個就是這一次的那個彈性的機制"},{"start":3880.24,"end":3882.24,"text":"那待會我們會討論到那個60天"},{"start":3883.24,"end":3886.24,"text":"這邊其實也可以跟那個邱委員對話一下"},{"start":3887.24,"end":3890.24,"text":"其實我們叫做育嬰育兒會改成育兒嘛"},{"start":3891.24,"end":3893.24,"text":"那在國外其實它就叫parental leave"},{"start":3894.24,"end":3895.24,"text":"其實就是親職假"},{"start":3896.24,"end":3897.24,"text":"只是我們名字有點不一樣"},{"start":3898.24,"end":3901.24,"text":"所以就是邱委員關心的這個部分"},{"start":3902.24,"end":3903.24,"text":"事實上就是育兒假"},{"start":3904.24,"end":3906.24,"text":"那當然就是說你講的東西我們都覺得很不錯"},{"start":3907.24,"end":3909.24,"text":"可是這一波婦女團體覺得最優先的事情"},{"start":3910.24,"end":3911.24,"text":"是把它延到8歲"},{"start":3911.24,"end":3915.24,"text":"還有等一下要討論的那個彈性以日為傾的部分"},{"start":3916.24,"end":3921.24,"text":"我想大家聚焦這個改革讓它穩健企業也支持之後"},{"start":3922.24,"end":3925.24,"text":"那我們可以未來再來據說爭取更多的"},{"start":3926.24,"end":3928.24,"text":"就是對家長更多的一個福利"},{"start":3929.24,"end":3934.24,"text":"那希望大家能夠就是這一波先讓它有共識出去"},{"start":3935.24,"end":3936.24,"text":"以上"},{"start":3936.24,"end":3938.24,"text":"好我們先休息"},{"start":3966.24,"end":3971.24,"text":"希望第一個就是8歲這個東西先讓它過完"},{"start":3972.24,"end":3974.24,"text":"再來就是那個彈性的60年內"},{"start":3975.24,"end":3977.24,"text":"你想那個很好可是你知道它不夠能不下水"},{"start":3978.24,"end":3980.24,"text":"就是現在問題是這樣就是說"},{"start":3981.24,"end":3984.24,"text":"如果要設一個沒有錢人都覺得"},{"start":3985.24,"end":3986.24,"text":"我其實設"},{"start":3987.24,"end":3988.24,"text":"因為有錢"},{"start":3989.24,"end":3990.24,"text":"你就把它過回來"},{"start":3991.24,"end":3992.24,"text":"就是你要把這個過度"},{"start":3992.24,"end":3996.24,"text":"不夠空間一下子三歲靠到發水"},{"start":3997.24,"end":4001.24,"text":"對你弄了9之外女性本來就知道"},{"start":4002.24,"end":4003.24,"text":"台灣女性就會育活"},{"start":4004.24,"end":4005.24,"text":"結果就沒有工作了"},{"start":4006.24,"end":4009.24,"text":"所以我們要女性可以更快把來情緒開解"},{"start":4010.24,"end":4011.24,"text":"好那"},{"start":4014.24,"end":4015.24,"text":"希望8歲這個東西"},{"start":4016.24,"end":4018.24,"text":"我覺得這時候是可以"},{"start":4019.24,"end":4020.24,"text":"因為這不是喊價"},{"start":4020.24,"end":4023.24,"text":"我們現在想像中有個清楚的說法"},{"start":4024.24,"end":4026.24,"text":"其實如果沒有錢都好"},{"start":4027.24,"end":4028.24,"text":"現在是因為要讓它有錢"},{"start":4029.24,"end":4030.24,"text":"大家覺得有錢才願意寫"},{"start":4031.24,"end":4033.24,"text":"好那我們去找到了一個其實我們現在已經很快"},{"start":4034.24,"end":4036.24,"text":"我們讓它找到一個單日期"},{"start":4037.24,"end":4040.24,"text":"然後可以有些發生性的方法"},{"start":4041.24,"end":4042.24,"text":"讓大家比較願意寫"},{"start":4043.24,"end":4044.24,"text":"可是它就必須要跟著"},{"start":4045.24,"end":4046.24,"text":"月額的紀錄來做計算"},{"start":4046.24,"end":4050.24,"text":"好那大家如果在意說9歲以上的部分的話"},{"start":4051.24,"end":4052.24,"text":"那我覺得我們就是不用"},{"start":4053.24,"end":4054.24,"text":"剛剛講說紀錄"},{"start":4055.24,"end":4056.24,"text":"用乾淨交流價"},{"start":4057.24,"end":4058.24,"text":"讓它的範圍更寬"},{"start":4059.24,"end":4060.24,"text":"讓大家可以去做使用"},{"start":4061.24,"end":4062.24,"text":"那用這個方式來調度"},{"start":4063.24,"end":4065.24,"text":"不然除非變成你要把月額流停到12歲"},{"start":4066.24,"end":4067.24,"text":"可是這個太大了"},{"start":4068.24,"end":4069.24,"text":"這個其實是不會接受"},{"start":4070.24,"end":4071.24,"text":"主要這個是"},{"start":4072.24,"end":4073.24,"text":"有錢的可能不能太"},{"start":4073.24,"end":4074.24,"text":"對啦"},{"start":4075.24,"end":4076.24,"text":"從那個性別平等的角度"},{"start":4077.24,"end":4079.24,"text":"那個60邊的彈性反而讓爸爸開始氣"},{"start":4080.24,"end":4081.24,"text":"要不然你女性一下放太多"},{"start":4082.24,"end":4083.24,"text":"他又回不了職場"},{"start":4084.24,"end":4085.24,"text":"薪資差距就越來越大"},{"start":4086.24,"end":4087.24,"text":"對對對"},{"start":4088.24,"end":4089.24,"text":"對對"},{"start":4090.24,"end":4092.24,"text":"所以就有改革的優先順序"},{"start":4093.24,"end":4095.24,"text":"其實各國的設計是有這樣"},{"start":4096.24,"end":4097.24,"text":"你設計的很寬"},{"start":4098.24,"end":4099.24,"text":"大部分就是沒有錢"},{"start":4100.24,"end":4102.24,"text":"那你設計的比較清楚"},{"start":4103.24,"end":4105.24,"text":"那他就可能會比較親切"},{"start":4106.24,"end":4107.24,"text":"或是別人聽不清楚"},{"start":4108.24,"end":4109.24,"text":"所以我是很希望說"},{"start":4110.24,"end":4111.24,"text":"我們真的能夠整理說"},{"start":4112.24,"end":4113.24,"text":"剛才講16條"},{"start":4114.24,"end":4115.24,"text":"16之1 16之2"},{"start":4116.24,"end":4117.24,"text":"我們可以在這個概念"},{"start":4118.24,"end":4119.24,"text":"剛才大家講說把薪資教育價值用出"},{"start":4120.24,"end":4121.24,"text":"我們就把它放到"},{"start":4122.24,"end":4123.24,"text":"寫上文法裡面"},{"start":4124.24,"end":4125.24,"text":"把它使用的用途給擴大"},{"start":4126.24,"end":4127.24,"text":"其實我覺得"},{"start":4128.24,"end":4129.24,"text":"當然可以看得到部長"},{"start":4130.24,"end":4131.24,"text":"還有各位委員對於8歲減少"},{"start":4131.24,"end":4132.24,"text":"是有一定的比例"},{"start":4133.24,"end":4134.24,"text":"我們當時對這個12歲"},{"start":4135.24,"end":4136.24,"text":"其實有經過感的辯論"},{"start":4137.24,"end":4139.24,"text":"然後也有一些我們形成的共識"},{"start":4140.24,"end":4141.24,"text":"所以可能今天"},{"start":4142.24,"end":4143.24,"text":"要把這個"},{"start":4144.24,"end":4145.24,"text":"對對對"},{"start":4146.24,"end":4147.24,"text":"可能要進一步的改革"},{"start":4148.24,"end":4149.24,"text":"原本是"},{"start":4150.24,"end":4151.24,"text":"原本版本是3歲"},{"start":4152.24,"end":4153.24,"text":"情緒6歲現在到8歲"},{"start":4154.24,"end":4155.24,"text":"所以現在有點醜"},{"start":4156.24,"end":4157.24,"text":"其實你要說原本3歲"},{"start":4158.24,"end":4159.24,"text":"現在是3歲"},{"start":4159.24,"end":4160.24,"text":"現在放到8歲"},{"start":4161.24,"end":4162.24,"text":"這一次差多5歲"},{"start":4163.24,"end":4164.24,"text":"要整個就業的整理"},{"start":4165.24,"end":4166.24,"text":"讓蕙如再帶回去好了"},{"start":4167.24,"end":4168.24,"text":"我個人是覺得是真的"},{"start":4169.24,"end":4170.24,"text":"我也肯定勞動部是一件誇張的部落"},{"start":4171.24,"end":4172.24,"text":"我們在委員會"},{"start":4173.24,"end":4174.24,"text":"第一時間他們也"},{"start":4175.24,"end":4176.24,"text":"素男同力啊"},{"start":4177.24,"end":4178.24,"text":"後來他們也很有誠意的去做"},{"start":4179.24,"end":4180.24,"text":"我覺得我們都"},{"start":4181.24,"end":4182.24,"text":"大家講的清楚的一個道理"},{"start":4183.24,"end":4185.24,"text":"大家講小一小二的狀況"},{"start":4186.24,"end":4187.24,"text":"我們回頭去看了一下"},{"start":4187.24,"end":4188.24,"text":"他確實是上課的狀況"},{"start":4189.24,"end":4190.24,"text":"是那樣子"},{"start":4191.24,"end":4192.24,"text":"然後我們也看了一些數據"},{"start":4193.24,"end":4194.24,"text":"所以後來覺得說我們去整理之後"},{"start":4195.24,"end":4196.24,"text":"我們可以考慮每天去的這個"},{"start":4197.24,"end":4198.24,"text":"其實這個數字"},{"start":4199.24,"end":4200.24,"text":"其實很多我們男生都跟說"},{"start":4201.24,"end":4202.24,"text":"並不是越大越好"},{"start":4203.24,"end":4204.24,"text":"你有的時候會知道"},{"start":4205.24,"end":4206.24,"text":"是新的問題"},{"start":4207.24,"end":4208.24,"text":"對"},{"start":4209.24,"end":4210.24,"text":"會不會是你們"},{"start":4211.24,"end":4212.24,"text":"女性有可能"},{"start":4213.24,"end":4215.24,"text":"大家再審慎的討論一下"},{"start":4215.24,"end":4218.24,"text":"還是肯定勞動部今天在16條"},{"start":4219.24,"end":4221.24,"text":"這部我覺得真的是照顧了"},{"start":4222.24,"end":4223.24,"text":"很多的家長"},{"start":4224.24,"end":4225.24,"text":"就是說家裡有年幼小朋友的家"},{"start":4226.24,"end":4227.24,"text":"需要的是這個"},{"start":4228.24,"end":4229.24,"text":"當然不同政黨"},{"start":4230.24,"end":4231.24,"text":"大家可能會有"},{"start":4232.24,"end":4233.24,"text":"訴諸更高的這個"},{"start":4234.24,"end":4235.24,"text":"但是就是怎麼樣大家再來"},{"start":4236.24,"end":4237.24,"text":"折衝一個"},{"start":4238.24,"end":4239.24,"text":"就是真的可行"},{"start":4240.24,"end":4241.24,"text":"就對家長很有利"},{"start":4242.24,"end":4243.24,"text":"然後大家再往前進"},{"start":4244.24,"end":4245.24,"text":"我們一起來"},{"start":4246.24,"end":4249.24,"text":"你們要回去討論一下"},{"start":4250.24,"end":4251.24,"text":"我們就根本就"},{"start":4252.24,"end":4255.24,"text":"因為我們當然就是以我們提出"},{"start":4256.24,"end":4257.24,"text":"我們提出的修法版本"},{"start":4258.24,"end":4259.24,"text":"是我們討論過的"},{"start":4260.24,"end":4261.24,"text":"那如果有一些"},{"start":4262.24,"end":4263.24,"text":"要做一些談判的討論"},{"start":4264.24,"end":4265.24,"text":"真的又不是單純的一個"},{"start":4266.24,"end":4267.24,"text":"我的意思是說"},{"start":4268.24,"end":4269.24,"text":"我們希望說這個協商的過程"},{"start":4270.24,"end":4271.24,"text":"真的能夠產生協商"},{"start":4271.24,"end":4272.24,"text":"應該合理的被考慮"},{"start":4273.24,"end":4275.24,"text":"我覺得我們都願意把它合理的"},{"start":4276.24,"end":4278.24,"text":"在協商過程裡面合理的考慮"},{"start":4279.24,"end":4280.24,"text":"我的態度都是這樣"},{"start":4281.24,"end":4282.24,"text":"我猜就是說"},{"start":4283.24,"end":4284.24,"text":"你跟家庭座在這邊"},{"start":4285.24,"end":4286.24,"text":"你是完全沒有理由"},{"start":4287.24,"end":4288.24,"text":"特意決定這個事情"},{"start":4289.24,"end":4290.24,"text":"不是這樣那我們是更等協商"},{"start":4291.24,"end":4292.24,"text":"或者靠就是"},{"start":4293.24,"end":4294.24,"text":"大家完全按照這個"},{"start":4295.24,"end":4296.24,"text":"全部都不能動"},{"start":4297.24,"end":4298.24,"text":"因為我們"},{"start":4298.24,"end":4300.24,"text":"等一下現在正常就是14週"},{"start":4301.24,"end":4302.24,"text":"那我們當然所謂的"},{"start":4303.24,"end":4304.24,"text":"因為我們的每個數字裡出去"},{"start":4305.24,"end":4306.24,"text":"我們都對這些數字負責"},{"start":4307.24,"end":4308.24,"text":"其實都有說不出協商的問題"},{"start":4309.24,"end":4310.24,"text":"現在等一下每一個"},{"start":4311.24,"end":4312.24,"text":"維持原來的都不能動"},{"start":4313.24,"end":4314.24,"text":"我們有很堅持的"},{"start":4315.24,"end":4316.24,"text":"例如說14週目前才堅持著"},{"start":4317.24,"end":4318.24,"text":"其他的有沒有什麼"},{"start":4319.24,"end":4320.24,"text":"因為不能代表你們"},{"start":4321.24,"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nd":5681.24,"text":"其他委員已經有公司,那民眾黨這邊還沒有公司的話"},{"start":5681.24,"end":5684.24,"text":"就先行保留,那接下來第二個主題為"},{"start":5684.24,"end":5691.24,"text":"我們育兒減少公司的工資貼補企業的獎勵議題"},{"start":5691.24,"end":5698.24,"text":"那我們就委員續舊我們的性別平等工作法的第19條之一"},{"start":5698.24,"end":5701.24,"text":"好,進行協商,然後請我們勞動部報告"},{"start":5701.24,"end":5706.24,"text":"跟委員說明,針對那個現在第19條"},{"start":5707.24,"end":5711.24,"text":"就是性工法第19條,主要是針對這個減少工時的部分"},{"start":5711.24,"end":5715.24,"text":"那其實委員會已經有一個附帶決議"},{"start":5715.24,"end":5721.24,"text":"就是已經有討論說希望我們提出一個這個獎勵計畫"},{"start":5721.24,"end":5725.24,"text":"來獎勵這部分,那我跟委員們報告"},{"start":5725.24,"end":5729.24,"text":"我們其實現在已經把這個獎勵計畫"},{"start":5729.24,"end":5731.24,"text":"減少工時的獎勵計畫"},{"start":5731.24,"end":5737.24,"text":"還有連帶的他的直帶津貼的整個的獎勵計畫"},{"start":5737.24,"end":5744.24,"text":"已經把這個經費編到116年,也是明年度的年度預算裡面了"},{"start":5744.24,"end":5748.24,"text":"所以我想跟大家說,我們是之前在委員會講的時候"},{"start":5748.24,"end":5754.24,"text":"覺得這個獎勵計畫,勞動部我們絕對不是空口白話的"},{"start":5754.24,"end":5757.24,"text":"我們是有很明確的把這個計畫,甚至這個計畫"},{"start":5757.24,"end":5761.24,"text":"包括減少工時,包括直帶津貼"},{"start":5761.24,"end":5764.24,"text":"甚至包括替代人力的津貼"},{"start":5764.24,"end":5766.24,"text":"那也不只是減少工時"},{"start":5766.24,"end":5770.24,"text":"其實我們在我們的獎勵計畫也提供了幾個的選擇"},{"start":5770.24,"end":5775.24,"text":"因為大家也講到,有些公司適合用減少工時"},{"start":5775.24,"end":5778.24,"text":"有些公司比較適合用調整工時"},{"start":5778.24,"end":5781.24,"text":"也就是說,他一樣是上班8小時"},{"start":5781.24,"end":5785.24,"text":"可是他把上班的時間整個做前後的挪移"},{"start":5785.24,"end":5788.24,"text":"有些公司是可以做減少工時"},{"start":5788.24,"end":5791.24,"text":"有些公司是做調整工時"},{"start":5791.24,"end":5799.24,"text":"那這些選項,我們都放入在勞動部接下來會提出的補助計畫裡面"},{"start":5799.24,"end":5802.24,"text":"我們都已經放進去這補助計畫裡面"},{"start":5802.24,"end":5805.24,"text":"所以我們希望我們用很明確的計畫的提出"},{"start":5805.24,"end":5808.24,"text":"來去取信跟說服委員說"},{"start":5808.24,"end":5811.24,"text":"我們就暫時先不要來動新工法的19條"},{"start":5811.24,"end":5814.24,"text":"因為新工法的19條確實還是會有"},{"start":5814.24,"end":5817.24,"text":"如果要去動的話,它就是一個強制性的條文"},{"start":5817.24,"end":5820.24,"text":"那這個強制性的條文的確是現在很多企業"},{"start":5820.24,"end":5823.24,"text":"尤其是中小企業他們很擔心的狀況"},{"start":5823.24,"end":5826.24,"text":"就等於它變成一個不能拒絕的情況"},{"start":5826.24,"end":5829.24,"text":"所以還是希望我們先用獎勵計畫"},{"start":5829.24,"end":5831.24,"text":"那我們已經有明確的計畫"},{"start":5831.24,"end":5833.24,"text":"這個請委員們不用擔心"},{"start":5833.24,"end":5836.24,"text":"那接下來這個計畫,我們會找地方政府一起來討論"},{"start":5836.24,"end":5838.24,"text":"因為裡面牽涉到很多的執行鏈的事情"},{"start":5838.24,"end":5841.24,"text":"現在也已經在籌備跟地方政府的討論了"},{"start":5841.24,"end":5843.24,"text":"所以這絕對不會是一個空包彈"},{"start":5843.24,"end":5844.24,"text":"請大家放心"},{"start":5844.24,"end":5846.24,"text":"所以我們是想爭取說是不是19條"},{"start":5846.24,"end":5848.24,"text":"就先不要修好不好"},{"start":5848.24,"end":5852.24,"text":"那上次我也想,因為上次我記得幾位委員有講到"},{"start":5852.24,"end":5855.24,"text":"如果我們同意6歲到8歲的話"},{"start":5855.24,"end":5859.24,"text":"那個減少小時候大家就比較同意不要去修它"},{"start":5859.24,"end":5861.24,"text":"還有19跟20條就盡量不要去修"},{"start":5861.24,"end":5863.24,"text":"上次也有講到這件事"},{"start":5863.24,"end":5866.24,"text":"所以我們還是希望盡量再爭取這部分,謝謝"},{"start":5866.24,"end":5870.24,"text":"我也支持勞動部剛才的建議"},{"start":5870.24,"end":5874.24,"text":"為什麼?因為的確如果一開始要再入法的話"},{"start":5874.24,"end":5877.24,"text":"事實上各種狀況沒有辦法充分掌握"},{"start":5877.24,"end":5879.24,"text":"那反而事實上延伸更多問題"},{"start":5879.24,"end":5882.24,"text":"如果說今天從獎勵有意願的來做"},{"start":5882.24,"end":5884.24,"text":"然後後來發現一些問題的時候"},{"start":5884.24,"end":5886.24,"text":"調整到很適合規模的時候"},{"start":5886.24,"end":5889.24,"text":"我們再來入法的話可能會是比較恰當"},{"start":5889.24,"end":5892.24,"text":"那今天勞動部也同意要用獎勵機制來做"},{"start":5892.24,"end":5895.24,"text":"也在附帶決議裡有提的話"},{"start":5895.24,"end":5898.24,"text":"我相信在座的在場的委員應該會同意"},{"start":5898.24,"end":5900.24,"text":"應該會同意喔,那黃毓民委員"},{"start":5904.24,"end":5906.24,"text":"謝謝剛剛部長的說明"},{"start":5909.24,"end":5911.24,"text":"謝謝剛剛部長的說明"},{"start":5911.24,"end":5913.24,"text":"那我想請教一下"},{"start":5913.24,"end":5916.24,"text":"就是那個整個預算的規模"},{"start":5916.24,"end":5918.24,"text":"就是你們已經編了"},{"start":5918.24,"end":5920.24,"text":"60億"},{"start":5920.24,"end":5922.24,"text":"有編到60億是不是?好"},{"start":5922.24,"end":5926.24,"text":"所以這個對於分布22個縣市來講"},{"start":5926.24,"end":5929.24,"text":"就是一個縣市這樣大概是"},{"start":5929.24,"end":5931.24,"text":"多少金額?"},{"start":5933.24,"end":5934.24,"text":"就是"},{"start":5934.24,"end":5936.24,"text":"因為這當然會看每個縣市的人口"},{"start":5936.24,"end":5937.24,"text":"跟就業人數"},{"start":5937.24,"end":5939.24,"text":"就六都可能會比較多嘛對不對"},{"start":5939.24,"end":5940.24,"text":"因為他們的人口比較大"},{"start":5940.24,"end":5942.24,"text":"所以到時候你的那個預算分配"},{"start":5942.24,"end":5944.24,"text":"你會根據他的人口規模"},{"start":5944.24,"end":5947.24,"text":"他實質的這一些育兒數"},{"start":5947.24,"end":5949.24,"text":"就是應該要做一點調整吧對不對"},{"start":5949.24,"end":5951.24,"text":"要一個適時的基礎"},{"start":5951.24,"end":5954.24,"text":"然後人口比較多,子女數比較多"},{"start":5954.24,"end":5956.24,"text":"這個公司人數比較多"},{"start":5956.24,"end":5958.24,"text":"就等於他需求要比較高的"},{"start":5958.24,"end":5960.24,"text":"你應該是要有這樣的分配吧"},{"start":5960.24,"end":5962.24,"text":"跟委員說明,基本上就是"},{"start":5962.24,"end":5964.24,"text":"這不是一個分配的概念"},{"start":5964.24,"end":5966.24,"text":"是你有這樣按照"},{"start":5966.24,"end":5968.24,"text":"我們補助計劃"},{"start":5968.24,"end":5970.24,"text":"訂定的要求來做"},{"start":5970.24,"end":5972.24,"text":"你企業有這樣支出"},{"start":5972.24,"end":5974.24,"text":"就可以來申請補助"},{"start":5974.24,"end":5978.24,"text":"所以企業把這樣子"},{"start":5978.24,"end":5979.24,"text":"所以他是直接跟你申請"},{"start":5979.24,"end":5980.24,"text":"不用透過縣市政府"},{"start":5980.24,"end":5982.24,"text":"跟縣市政府,但是錢是我們出"},{"start":5982.24,"end":5984.24,"text":"所以你還是應該要縣市政府的概念吧"},{"start":5984.24,"end":5986.24,"text":"因為你的quota應該還是縣市政府"},{"start":5986.24,"end":5988.24,"text":"然後企業跟縣市政府嘛"},{"start":5988.24,"end":5990.24,"text":"我的意思就是說"},{"start":5990.24,"end":5992.24,"text":"你應該要去衡量到"},{"start":5992.24,"end":5994.24,"text":"譬如說六都人口比較多的"},{"start":5994.24,"end":5996.24,"text":"多跟少之間"},{"start":5996.24,"end":5998.24,"text":"你應該要有那個概念"},{"start":5998.24,"end":6000.24,"text":"就你的分配原則"},{"start":6000.24,"end":6002.24,"text":"第二個呢,我要講的是"},{"start":6002.24,"end":6004.24,"text":"像現在其實有很多是可以遠距的"},{"start":6004.24,"end":6006.24,"text":"你剛剛講的很好"},{"start":6006.24,"end":6008.24,"text":"有些是可以因應他的那個形態"},{"start":6008.24,"end":6010.24,"text":"是彈性的那個時間"},{"start":6010.24,"end":6012.24,"text":"但是也同時可以開放"},{"start":6012.24,"end":6014.24,"text":"有一些他育有子女的"},{"start":6014.24,"end":6016.24,"text":"如果公司他是願意開放給這個員工"},{"start":6016.24,"end":6018.24,"text":"他是適合遠距的"},{"start":6018.24,"end":6020.24,"text":"我覺得遠距其實對一些他自己照顧"},{"start":6020.24,"end":6022.24,"text":"就是臨時要照顧小孩"},{"start":6022.24,"end":6024.24,"text":"他不見得要請假"},{"start":6024.24,"end":6026.24,"text":"他其實在家裡他就是有一個彈性給他"},{"start":6026.24,"end":6028.24,"text":"那那個遠距"},{"start":6028.24,"end":6030.24,"text":"我希望你們也可以列入考量"},{"start":6030.24,"end":6032.24,"text":"就是說在整個你們獎勵的範圍"},{"start":6032.24,"end":6034.24,"text":"如果他願意用"},{"start":6034.24,"end":6036.24,"text":"就是考量到他照顧小孩"},{"start":6036.24,"end":6038.24,"text":"其中有一些他是用遠距來調整的"},{"start":6038.24,"end":6040.24,"text":"我覺得也可以考慮"},{"start":6040.24,"end":6042.24,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":6042.24,"end":6044.24,"text":"我們基本上現在會補助"},{"start":6044.24,"end":6046.24,"text":"會有三種模式"},{"start":6046.24,"end":6048.24,"text":"一種模式,減少工時"},{"start":6048.24,"end":6050.24,"text":"減少工時指的去公司上班"},{"start":6050.24,"end":6052.24,"text":"減少一個小時的工時"},{"start":6052.24,"end":6054.24,"text":"第二個模式叫做調整工時"},{"start":6054.24,"end":6056.24,"text":"就是整段前後調整"},{"start":6056.24,"end":6058.24,"text":"第三個就是"},{"start":6058.24,"end":6060.24,"text":"居家跟電船"},{"start":6060.24,"end":6062.24,"text":"那居家跟電船的部分"},{"start":6062.24,"end":6064.24,"text":"他"},{"start":6064.24,"end":6066.24,"text":"他比較不是減少工時"},{"start":6066.24,"end":6068.24,"text":"也就是在居家的方式"},{"start":6068.24,"end":6070.24,"text":"那我們也有"},{"start":6070.24,"end":6072.24,"text":"把他納入我們的規劃裡面"},{"start":6072.24,"end":6074.24,"text":"對,所以我的意思說"},{"start":6074.24,"end":6076.24,"text":"我們在補助的範圍裡面"},{"start":6076.24,"end":6078.24,"text":"現在包括這三種模式"},{"start":6078.24,"end":6080.24,"text":"都在裡面"},{"start":6080.24,"end":6082.24,"text":"那可能不同企業"},{"start":6082.24,"end":6084.24,"text":"覺得他適合的模式"},{"start":6084.24,"end":6086.24,"text":"因為會有一些企業他認為"},{"start":6086.24,"end":6088.24,"text":"他不是那麼適合居家"},{"start":6088.24,"end":6090.24,"text":"因為他可能會有員工在一起向心力"},{"start":6090.24,"end":6092.24,"text":"等等,會在意這件事情"},{"start":6092.24,"end":6094.24,"text":"那有一些他是比較排班制的"},{"start":6094.24,"end":6096.24,"text":"他就比較不適合"},{"start":6096.24,"end":6098.24,"text":"減少工時"},{"start":6098.24,"end":6100.24,"text":"因為不同的行業的營業性質"},{"start":6100.24,"end":6102.24,"text":"會有不同"},{"start":6102.24,"end":6104.24,"text":"所以我們也把他的多樣性給考慮起來"},{"start":6104.24,"end":6106.24,"text":"所以補助的多樣性"},{"start":6106.24,"end":6108.24,"text":"我們也把它有規劃進來,目前都只有的"},{"start":6108.24,"end":6110.24,"text":"主席可以發言"},{"start":6110.24,"end":6112.24,"text":"好,范委員"},{"start":6112.24,"end":6114.24,"text":"那我說明一下"},{"start":6114.24,"end":6116.24,"text":"這個第十九條我原本是"},{"start":6116.24,"end":6118.24,"text":"2024年2月的提案"},{"start":6118.24,"end":6120.24,"text":"那當時我的提案是刪除30人"},{"start":6120.24,"end":6122.24,"text":"以上,然後把"},{"start":6122.24,"end":6124.24,"text":"3歲改成5歲以下"},{"start":6124.24,"end":6126.24,"text":"然後把不得請求報酬"},{"start":6126.24,"end":6128.24,"text":"這個育兒減工時"},{"start":6128.24,"end":6130.24,"text":"的不得請求報酬刪除"},{"start":6130.24,"end":6132.24,"text":"那但是我覺得"},{"start":6132.24,"end":6134.24,"text":"勞動部現在提出來的計畫"},{"start":6134.24,"end":6136.24,"text":"剛剛部長講這部分,我相當肯定"},{"start":6136.24,"end":6138.24,"text":"因為第一個,他是針對"},{"start":6138.24,"end":6140.24,"text":"200人以下的企業"},{"start":6140.24,"end":6142.24,"text":"他幾乎可以cover大概台灣的"},{"start":6142.24,"end":6144.24,"text":"9成以上,因為台灣是以中小企業"},{"start":6144.24,"end":6146.24,"text":"為主嘛,那第二個我原本"},{"start":6146.24,"end":6148.24,"text":"那個版本其實是要雇主支出"},{"start":6148.24,"end":6150.24,"text":"那勞動部現在是用一個"},{"start":6150.24,"end":6152.24,"text":"獎勵,而且針對"},{"start":6152.24,"end":6154.24,"text":"就是說在家,工作都有"},{"start":6154.24,"end":6156.24,"text":"然後減少工時,然後調整工時"},{"start":6156.24,"end":6158.24,"text":"的部分,我覺得也很完善"},{"start":6158.24,"end":6160.24,"text":"那所以,而且你們是"},{"start":6160.24,"end":6162.24,"text":"育有12歲以下的子女"},{"start":6162.24,"end":6164.24,"text":"就是說這個育兒減工時"},{"start":6164.24,"end":6166.24,"text":"在我們前面"},{"start":6166.24,"end":6168.24,"text":"討論的那個育兒假之外的"},{"start":6168.24,"end":6170.24,"text":"又有這個部分,那從獎勵"},{"start":6170.24,"end":6172.24,"text":"做起,我是相當肯定"},{"start":6172.24,"end":6174.24,"text":"所以我就不堅持"},{"start":6174.24,"end":6176.24,"text":"我原來的版本,那支持"},{"start":6176.24,"end":6178.24,"text":"勞動部用這個計畫跟獎勵"},{"start":6178.24,"end":6180.24,"text":"來取代,那我只有一個附帶決議"},{"start":6180.24,"end":6182.24,"text":"那希望他可以研議一些東西"},{"start":6182.24,"end":6184.24,"text":"以上說明,謝謝"},{"start":6184.24,"end":6186.24,"text":"王政紀委"},{"start":6186.24,"end":6188.24,"text":"謝謝,我想剛剛"},{"start":6188.24,"end":6190.24,"text":"部長也告訴我們說"},{"start":6190.24,"end":6192.24,"text":"未來這個獎勵的措施"},{"start":6192.24,"end":6194.24,"text":"有可能有三個內容"},{"start":6194.24,"end":6196.24,"text":"那"},{"start":6196.24,"end":6198.24,"text":"我不太清楚"},{"start":6198.24,"end":6200.24,"text":"希望部長再說明一下的地方"},{"start":6200.24,"end":6202.24,"text":"就是說,這三個裡面是"},{"start":6202.24,"end":6204.24,"text":"擇一,或者是可以擇二"},{"start":6204.24,"end":6206.24,"text":"還是可以三個多要"},{"start":6206.24,"end":6208.24,"text":"就是在什麼情形之下"},{"start":6208.24,"end":6210.24,"text":"才有機會獲得到這樣的補助"},{"start":6210.24,"end":6212.24,"text":"請"},{"start":6212.24,"end":6214.24,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":6214.24,"end":6216.24,"text":"我們現在的規劃是說,如果有減少工時"},{"start":6216.24,"end":6218.24,"text":"或者是工時"},{"start":6218.24,"end":6220.24,"text":"沒有變動,其實這個"},{"start":6220.24,"end":6222.24,"text":"不用擇一,你如果同時都"},{"start":6222.24,"end":6224.24,"text":"都做的話,我們有"},{"start":6224.24,"end":6226.24,"text":"不同的制度獎勵"},{"start":6226.24,"end":6228.24,"text":"這是一個部分,那工時沒有變動裡面"},{"start":6228.24,"end":6230.24,"text":"我們就包含剛剛部長提到的"},{"start":6230.24,"end":6232.24,"text":"你要留在原來的"},{"start":6232.24,"end":6234.24,"text":"工作場所調整,或者是"},{"start":6234.24,"end":6236.24,"text":"你允許員工工時沒有變動"},{"start":6236.24,"end":6238.24,"text":"你是居家辦公"},{"start":6238.24,"end":6240.24,"text":"那這種製作性的,我們就是給企業"},{"start":6240.24,"end":6242.24,"text":"擇一,然後"},{"start":6242.24,"end":6244.24,"text":"所以這三個目前的規劃是這樣子"},{"start":6244.24,"end":6246.24,"text":"那補充,然後給"},{"start":6246.24,"end":6248.24,"text":"給員工的工資補貼"},{"start":6248.24,"end":6250.24,"text":"或者是直帶津貼的獎勵"},{"start":6250.24,"end":6252.24,"text":"其實我們沒有分企業規模"},{"start":6252.24,"end":6254.24,"text":"不單單兩百人以下,其實"},{"start":6254.24,"end":6256.24,"text":"不同企業規模,我們只要"},{"start":6256.24,"end":6258.24,"text":"企業主願意給雇主"},{"start":6258.24,"end":6260.24,"text":"這個不扣薪,或者是給直帶津貼"},{"start":6260.24,"end":6262.24,"text":"我們都會補貼"},{"start":6262.24,"end":6264.24,"text":"我最後做一點說明"},{"start":6264.24,"end":6266.24,"text":"其實我們在這個制度上面"},{"start":6266.24,"end":6268.24,"text":"其實是有參考"},{"start":6268.24,"end":6270.24,"text":"也是參考日韓的做法"},{"start":6270.24,"end":6272.24,"text":"其實是那一個小時的薪水"},{"start":6272.24,"end":6274.24,"text":"減少工時的話,那個小時的薪水"},{"start":6274.24,"end":6276.24,"text":"我們是補百分之百的全薪"},{"start":6276.24,"end":6278.24,"text":"那個小時,但是它要是一個"},{"start":6278.24,"end":6280.24,"text":"帶狀的,它有個帶狀的必要性"},{"start":6282.24,"end":6284.24,"text":"那我們這一次還有設計了所謂的"},{"start":6284.24,"end":6286.24,"text":"直帶津貼,也就是如果要來"},{"start":6286.24,"end":6288.24,"text":"頂那個小時的"},{"start":6288.24,"end":6290.24,"text":"那個小時的"},{"start":6290.24,"end":6292.24,"text":"如果頂一天的話"},{"start":6292.24,"end":6294.24,"text":"從公司裡面"},{"start":6294.24,"end":6296.24,"text":"要找人來去"},{"start":6296.24,"end":6298.24,"text":"頂替那個請假的"},{"start":6298.24,"end":6300.24,"text":"代理的人,頂一天的話"},{"start":6300.24,"end":6302.24,"text":"一天我們會補助八百塊"},{"start":6302.24,"end":6304.24,"text":"的直帶津貼的補助"},{"start":6304.24,"end":6306.24,"text":"那這八百塊的直帶津貼補助"},{"start":6306.24,"end":6308.24,"text":"目前我們看起來也是比"},{"start":6308.24,"end":6310.24,"text":"韓國來的優渥一點的"},{"start":6310.24,"end":6312.24,"text":"那再把它算成"},{"start":6312.24,"end":6314.24,"text":"假設每個小時的話,就再八個小時"},{"start":6314.24,"end":6316.24,"text":"去除"},{"start":6316.24,"end":6318.24,"text":"所以包括請假的那個人"},{"start":6318.24,"end":6320.24,"text":"包括直帶的那個人"},{"start":6320.24,"end":6322.24,"text":"我們都有放入到這個補助裡面"},{"start":6322.24,"end":6324.24,"text":"所以這個金額才會"},{"start":6324.24,"end":6326.24,"text":"我們編列到六十億"},{"start":6326.24,"end":6328.24,"text":"所以"},{"start":6328.24,"end":6330.24,"text":"這個,我想我們是"},{"start":6330.24,"end":6332.24,"text":"很有誠意"},{"start":6332.24,"end":6334.24,"text":"那當然有些部分的制度"},{"start":6334.24,"end":6336.24,"text":"變動,你把它放入到你的"},{"start":6336.24,"end":6338.24,"text":"你這個制度的人事的"},{"start":6338.24,"end":6340.24,"text":"制度裡面的話,我們也相關"},{"start":6340.24,"end":6342.24,"text":"的補助"},{"start":6342.24,"end":6344.24,"text":"主席,我可以再一次"},{"start":6344.24,"end":6346.24,"text":"我想部長今天要這樣說明"},{"start":6346.24,"end":6348.24,"text":"希望在過來這個示範計畫"},{"start":6348.24,"end":6350.24,"text":"這個計畫在執行的時候"},{"start":6350.24,"end":6352.24,"text":"應該就有機會去做"},{"start":6352.24,"end":6354.24,"text":"更深入"},{"start":6354.24,"end":6356.24,"text":"對民眾的協助"},{"start":6356.24,"end":6358.24,"text":"那也可以了解"},{"start":6358.24,"end":6360.24,"text":"如果在執行上面會碰到哪一些的問題"},{"start":6360.24,"end":6362.24,"text":"所以我是很贊成說"},{"start":6362.24,"end":6364.24,"text":"為止現行的這個"},{"start":6364.24,"end":6366.24,"text":"現行法,以上"},{"start":6366.24,"end":6368.24,"text":"好,就位"},{"start":6368.24,"end":6370.24,"text":"好,謝謝主席"},{"start":6370.24,"end":6372.24,"text":"那關於第十九條"},{"start":6372.24,"end":6374.24,"text":"我們也是有一些比較"},{"start":6374.24,"end":6376.24,"text":"真的算是比較"},{"start":6376.24,"end":6378.24,"text":"略帶"},{"start":6378.24,"end":6380.24,"text":"理想性的一個"},{"start":6380.24,"end":6382.24,"text":"立法的這個"},{"start":6382.24,"end":6384.24,"text":"原由在裡面"},{"start":6384.24,"end":6386.24,"text":"那幾個立法性就是說"},{"start":6386.24,"end":6388.24,"text":"因為現行法是三歲,我們想提升到十二歲"},{"start":6388.24,"end":6390.24,"text":"那涵蓋更多的兒童"},{"start":6390.24,"end":6392.24,"text":"我想這個希望能夠達成"},{"start":6392.24,"end":6394.24,"text":"那第二個當然就是育民委員"},{"start":6394.24,"end":6396.24,"text":"剛剛有提到彈性公視,因為彈性公視"},{"start":6396.24,"end":6398.24,"text":"其實它是一個"},{"start":6398.24,"end":6400.24,"text":"它其實是一個比較彈性的方式"},{"start":6400.24,"end":6402.24,"text":"可以讓勞工他們在工作的"},{"start":6402.24,"end":6404.24,"text":"層次會"},{"start":6404.24,"end":6406.24,"text":"比較有一些彈性調整的空間"},{"start":6406.24,"end":6408.24,"text":"以緩解那個身心的壓力"},{"start":6408.24,"end":6410.24,"text":"那當然,最後當然也是要"},{"start":6410.24,"end":6412.24,"text":"肯定勞動部"},{"start":6412.24,"end":6414.24,"text":"我們這個政府這邊就是對於"},{"start":6414.24,"end":6416.24,"text":"這些每天減少工時的部分"},{"start":6416.24,"end":6418.24,"text":"然後雇主"},{"start":6418.24,"end":6420.24,"text":"國家願意補助給雇主這一天的"},{"start":6420.24,"end":6422.24,"text":"減少一小時的工資"},{"start":6422.24,"end":6424.24,"text":"只是我們會覺得說法有明文規定"},{"start":6424.24,"end":6426.24,"text":"會有一個法律依據會比較好"},{"start":6426.24,"end":6428.24,"text":"那這是以上我們的"},{"start":6428.24,"end":6430.24,"text":"訴求"},{"start":6432.24,"end":6434.24,"text":"講嗎?"},{"start":6434.24,"end":6436.24,"text":"我覺得我們還是需要把"},{"start":6436.24,"end":6438.24,"text":"其實有一些概念"},{"start":6438.24,"end":6440.24,"text":"其實現在大家講到十二歲的原因"},{"start":6440.24,"end":6442.24,"text":"是因為"},{"start":6442.24,"end":6444.24,"text":"台北市政府目前的減少工時的制度"},{"start":6444.24,"end":6446.24,"text":"也是到"},{"start":6446.24,"end":6448.24,"text":"十二歲"},{"start":6448.24,"end":6450.24,"text":"所以大家會有講到十二歲的原因"},{"start":6450.24,"end":6452.24,"text":"但是台北市政府"},{"start":6452.24,"end":6454.24,"text":"的制度它一樣"},{"start":6454.24,"end":6456.24,"text":"也是要勞資"},{"start":6456.24,"end":6458.24,"text":"合意,它一樣不是"},{"start":6458.24,"end":6460.24,"text":"強制性的"},{"start":6460.24,"end":6462.24,"text":"但是現在我們在"},{"start":6462.24,"end":6464.24,"text":"目前的"},{"start":6464.24,"end":6466.24,"text":"信公法十九條的條文"},{"start":6466.24,"end":6468.24,"text":"它是一個強制性的條文"},{"start":6468.24,"end":6470.24,"text":"那它是不得請求"},{"start":6470.24,"end":6472.24,"text":"工資,然後三歲以下"},{"start":6472.24,"end":6474.24,"text":"是一個強制性的條文"},{"start":6474.24,"end":6476.24,"text":"所以"},{"start":6476.24,"end":6478.24,"text":"我們是認為"},{"start":6478.24,"end":6480.24,"text":"真的是不要去動"},{"start":6480.24,"end":6482.24,"text":"這個十九條,因為這個十九條"},{"start":6482.24,"end":6484.24,"text":"一動"},{"start":6484.24,"end":6486.24,"text":"我們真的跟很多的人質"},{"start":6486.24,"end":6488.24,"text":"討論過,他們"},{"start":6488.24,"end":6490.24,"text":"這一條"},{"start":6490.24,"end":6492.24,"text":"真的是會讓他們的工作"},{"start":6492.24,"end":6494.24,"text":"排班"},{"start":6494.24,"end":6496.24,"text":"如果是不得拒絕,就是如果是"},{"start":6496.24,"end":6498.24,"text":"強制性的不得拒絕的話"},{"start":6498.24,"end":6500.24,"text":"其實真的會非常非常的"},{"start":6500.24,"end":6502.24,"text":"困難,這也是為什麼"},{"start":6502.24,"end":6504.24,"text":"我們很願意用一個"},{"start":6504.24,"end":6506.24,"text":"獎勵性的計畫"},{"start":6506.24,"end":6508.24,"text":"然後是要勞資合意,我們的工作"},{"start":6508.24,"end":6510.24,"text":"我知道大家會說它是勞資合意"},{"start":6510.24,"end":6512.24,"text":"可是我們為什麼提出獎勵,就是要讓"},{"start":6512.24,"end":6514.24,"text":"這個合意的門檻降低"},{"start":6514.24,"end":6516.24,"text":"它是要勞資"},{"start":6516.24,"end":6518.24,"text":"勞資合意沒有錯,你要考量各個"},{"start":6518.24,"end":6520.24,"text":"工作現場的樣態"},{"start":6520.24,"end":6522.24,"text":"可是我們提出補助計畫"},{"start":6522.24,"end":6524.24,"text":"獎勵計畫就是希望讓這個合意的"},{"start":6524.24,"end":6526.24,"text":"門檻給降低"},{"start":6526.24,"end":6528.24,"text":"讓它更有可能,讓這個合意更有可能"},{"start":6528.24,"end":6530.24,"text":"發生,那我們在一段時間"},{"start":6530.24,"end":6532.24,"text":"去來累積這個數據"},{"start":6532.24,"end":6534.24,"text":"企業的樣態、職場的樣態後"},{"start":6534.24,"end":6536.24,"text":"未來有沒有機會透過一個"},{"start":6536.24,"end":6538.24,"text":"強制性的法律來去處理"},{"start":6538.24,"end":6540.24,"text":"不得拒絕"},{"start":6540.24,"end":6542.24,"text":"這個,真的在這個階段"},{"start":6542.24,"end":6544.24,"text":"是很困難"},{"start":6544.24,"end":6546.24,"text":"的事情,所以我們是真的很希望說"},{"start":6546.24,"end":6548.24,"text":"是不是可以在19條或19之一"},{"start":6548.24,"end":6550.24,"text":"是現在可以先就是說"},{"start":6550.24,"end":6552.24,"text":"不要來更動"},{"start":6552.24,"end":6554.24,"text":"然後19之一可以不予"},{"start":6554.24,"end":6556.24,"text":"增訂"},{"start":6558.24,"end":6560.24,"text":"所以19條"},{"start":6560.24,"end":6562.24,"text":"維持現行條文"},{"start":6562.24,"end":6564.24,"text":"有沒有意見"},{"start":6564.24,"end":6566.24,"text":"好"},{"start":6566.24,"end":6568.24,"text":"那我們就19條"},{"start":6568.24,"end":6570.24,"text":"維持現行條"},{"start":6570.24,"end":6572.24,"text":"19之一不予"},{"start":6572.24,"end":6574.24,"text":"19之一不予"},{"start":6580.24,"end":6582.24,"text":"所以19之一不予增訂"},{"start":6584.24,"end":6586.24,"text":"好,那我們就"},{"start":6586.24,"end":6588.24,"text":"只好有進展"},{"start":6588.24,"end":6590.24,"text":"接下來第三主題"},{"start":6590.24,"end":6592.24,"text":"為家庭照顧教相關議題"},{"start":6594.24,"end":6596.24,"text":"對,有講"},{"start":6596.24,"end":6598.24,"text":"有講"},{"start":6598.24,"end":6600.24,"text":"不修"},{"start":6600.24,"end":6602.24,"text":"不修啊,對"},{"start":6604.24,"end":6606.24,"text":"有疑問嗎"},{"start":6606.24,"end":6608.24,"text":"來"},{"start":6608.24,"end":6610.24,"text":"19"},{"start":6610.24,"end":6612.24,"text":"維持現行"},{"start":6612.24,"end":6614.24,"text":"然後19之一不予增訂"},{"start":6614.24,"end":6616.24,"text":"這樣我念的中文,有清楚"},{"start":6622.24,"end":6624.24,"text":"我們應該近期會跟"},{"start":6624.24,"end":6626.24,"text":"縣跟地方政府討論"},{"start":6626.24,"end":6628.24,"text":"我們應該"},{"start":6628.24,"end":6630.24,"text":"11月"},{"start":6630.24,"end":6632.24,"text":"11月"},{"start":6632.24,"end":6634.24,"text":"我們應該會"},{"start":6634.24,"end":6636.24,"text":"好"},{"start":6636.24,"end":6638.24,"text":"好,玉明委員"},{"start":6638.24,"end":6640.24,"text":"OK,好,那我們接下來"},{"start":6640.24,"end":6642.24,"text":"第三主題為家庭照顧"},{"start":6642.24,"end":6644.24,"text":"價相關議題"},{"start":6644.24,"end":6646.24,"text":"進"},{"start":6646.24,"end":6648.24,"text":"委員敘舊性別平等"},{"start":6648.24,"end":6650.24,"text":"工作法第20條"},{"start":6650.24,"end":6652.24,"text":"就業保險法第10"},{"start":6652.24,"end":6654.24,"text":"32、33之一條"},{"start":6654.24,"end":6656.24,"text":"我們就先進行寫上"},{"start":6656.24,"end":6658.24,"text":"那請勞動部做說明"},{"start":6664.24,"end":6666.24,"text":"好,我們先跟大家"},{"start":6666.24,"end":6668.24,"text":"報告,就是說"},{"start":6668.24,"end":6670.24,"text":"家庭照顧"},{"start":6672.24,"end":6674.24,"text":"的部分,我們也是很希望20條"},{"start":6674.24,"end":6676.24,"text":"是可以"},{"start":6676.24,"end":6678.24,"text":"先不要做更動"},{"start":6678.24,"end":6680.24,"text":"原因很簡單"},{"start":6680.24,"end":6682.24,"text":"就是大家現在這一波,我們希望能夠"},{"start":6682.24,"end":6684.24,"text":"討論這個"},{"start":6684.24,"end":6686.24,"text":"照顧"},{"start":6686.24,"end":6688.24,"text":"小孩的價別的需求的話"},{"start":6688.24,"end":6690.24,"text":"其實我們現在在"},{"start":6690.24,"end":6692.24,"text":"育兒假裡面"},{"start":6692.24,"end":6694.24,"text":"其實就給大家,以單日勤"},{"start":6694.24,"end":6696.24,"text":"會有一個蠻大的空間"},{"start":6696.24,"end":6698.24,"text":"甚至這個育兒假,也是一個"},{"start":6698.24,"end":6700.24,"text":"有薪的育兒假"},{"start":6700.24,"end":6702.24,"text":"至少有八成的薪水"},{"start":6702.24,"end":6704.24,"text":"的育兒假,所以"},{"start":6704.24,"end":6706.24,"text":"在照顧小孩的時間的"},{"start":6706.24,"end":6708.24,"text":"這個需求上面"},{"start":6708.24,"end":6710.24,"text":"透過育兒假"},{"start":6710.24,"end":6712.24,"text":"來處理的話"},{"start":6712.24,"end":6714.24,"text":"我們就希望家庭照顧"},{"start":6714.24,"end":6716.24,"text":"的部分可以先不要來做"},{"start":6716.24,"end":6718.24,"text":"調整,這樣子"},{"start":6726.24,"end":6728.24,"text":"我再補充,剛剛"},{"start":6728.24,"end":6730.24,"text":"因為前面有在討論"},{"start":6730.24,"end":6732.24,"text":"民眾黨團,有在討論那個"},{"start":6734.24,"end":6736.24,"text":"親職教育假的部分"},{"start":6736.24,"end":6738.24,"text":"如果民眾黨團願意"},{"start":6738.24,"end":6740.24,"text":"我們是願意"},{"start":6740.24,"end":6742.24,"text":"把學校的"},{"start":6742.24,"end":6744.24,"text":"活動,這些事情"},{"start":6744.24,"end":6746.24,"text":"放到家庭照顧"},{"start":6746.24,"end":6748.24,"text":"假的使用的範圍裡面"},{"start":6748.24,"end":6750.24,"text":"我們願意"},{"start":6750.24,"end":6752.24,"text":"這樣子"},{"start":6752.24,"end":6754.24,"text":"我們願意"},{"start":6754.24,"end":6756.24,"text":"把他放到家庭照顧假的"},{"start":6756.24,"end":6758.24,"text":"使用範圍裡面"},{"start":6758.24,"end":6760.24,"text":"但是因為真的家庭照顧假"},{"start":6760.24,"end":6762.24,"text":"如果要讓他變成有薪的家庭照顧假"},{"start":6762.24,"end":6764.24,"text":"的話,他的難處"},{"start":6764.24,"end":6766.24,"text":"是在於平均請一天的"},{"start":6766.24,"end":6768.24,"text":"家庭照顧假"},{"start":6768.24,"end":6770.24,"text":"全台灣家庭照顧假可以請的範圍"},{"start":6770.24,"end":6772.24,"text":"非常非常的寬"},{"start":6772.24,"end":6774.24,"text":"平均請一天的家庭照顧假"},{"start":6774.24,"end":6776.24,"text":"按照我們的計算"},{"start":6776.24,"end":6778.24,"text":"會是要補助"},{"start":6778.24,"end":6780.24,"text":"130"},{"start":6782.24,"end":6784.24,"text":"如果平均請三天"},{"start":6784.24,"end":6786.24,"text":"老公平均請三天"},{"start":6786.24,"end":6788.24,"text":"在補助上面就是要"},{"start":6788.24,"end":6790.24,"text":"400億"},{"start":6790.24,"end":6792.24,"text":"我們認為這個在財務上"},{"start":6792.24,"end":6794.24,"text":"的可行性是相對低的"},{"start":6794.24,"end":6796.24,"text":"這也是為什麼我們會希望"},{"start":6796.24,"end":6798.24,"text":"能夠用育兒假"},{"start":6798.24,"end":6800.24,"text":"而且有薪的育兒假的方式"},{"start":6800.24,"end":6802.24,"text":"來去支應"},{"start":6802.24,"end":6804.24,"text":"勞工家長們"},{"start":6804.24,"end":6806.24,"text":"在照顧小孩的需求"},{"start":6806.24,"end":6808.24,"text":"所以我們希望20條也是能夠爭取"},{"start":6808.24,"end":6810.24,"text":"先不予修訂"},{"start":6812.24,"end":6814.24,"text":"委員有沒有意見"},{"start":6816.24,"end":6818.24,"text":"秋月如委員"},{"start":6818.24,"end":6820.24,"text":"你覺得家庭照顧假"},{"start":6820.24,"end":6822.24,"text":"16條之2"},{"start":6822.24,"end":6824.24,"text":"16條之2"},{"start":6824.24,"end":6826.24,"text":"親子教育假"},{"start":6826.24,"end":6828.24,"text":"如果是要跟16條之1"},{"start":6828.24,"end":6830.24,"text":"合併是育兒假"},{"start":6830.24,"end":6832.24,"text":"可是那個天花板又到9歲"},{"start":6832.24,"end":6834.24,"text":"那當部長這邊有提到說"},{"start":6834.24,"end":6836.24,"text":"那就往家庭照顧假的方向去"},{"start":6836.24,"end":6838.24,"text":"可是家庭照顧假就是目前是"},{"start":6838.24,"end":6840.24,"text":"無薪的我們覺得說對"},{"start":6840.24,"end":6842.24,"text":"勞工的誘因也不高"},{"start":6842.24,"end":6844.24,"text":"請假的誘因也不高"},{"start":6844.24,"end":6846.24,"text":"所以是不是家庭照顧假這邊也可以"},{"start":6846.24,"end":6848.24,"text":"有一些就是有薪水的一個"},{"start":6848.24,"end":6850.24,"text":"相對應的指引"},{"start":6850.24,"end":6852.24,"text":"是這樣子思考"},{"start":6852.24,"end":6854.24,"text":"不知道"},{"start":6854.24,"end":6856.24,"text":"對我們是這樣的思考"},{"start":6856.24,"end":6858.24,"text":"我覺得我們這個可以討論"},{"start":6858.24,"end":6860.24,"text":"我討論的意思是說"},{"start":6860.24,"end":6862.24,"text":"就像我剛才說"},{"start":6862.24,"end":6864.24,"text":"因為這真的會考慮財務上的狀況"},{"start":6864.24,"end":6866.24,"text":"家庭照顧假"},{"start":6866.24,"end":6868.24,"text":"我們今天如果討論家庭照顧假"},{"start":6868.24,"end":6870.24,"text":"以後要有薪水"},{"start":6870.24,"end":6872.24,"text":"那這個薪水不拖就兩個地方來源"},{"start":6872.24,"end":6874.24,"text":"要嘛是企業付"},{"start":6874.24,"end":6876.24,"text":"就是強制付薪水"},{"start":6876.24,"end":6878.24,"text":"要嘛就是政府補"},{"start":6878.24,"end":6880.24,"text":"可是如果是政府補的話"},{"start":6880.24,"end":6882.24,"text":"平均一天就是134億"},{"start":6884.24,"end":6886.24,"text":"這也是為什麼我們後來"},{"start":6886.24,"end":6888.24,"text":"在育兒的這個需要"},{"start":6888.24,"end":6890.24,"text":"需求的價別沒有往家庭照顧假"},{"start":6890.24,"end":6892.24,"text":"去想的原因是因為他的財務"},{"start":6892.24,"end":6894.24,"text":"上面的可行性真的"},{"start":6894.24,"end":6896.24,"text":"低所以我們才用"},{"start":6896.24,"end":6898.24,"text":"一個育兒假跟"},{"start":6898.24,"end":6900.24,"text":"那個救保基金來去支應"},{"start":6900.24,"end":6902.24,"text":"的邏輯來去支應他的"},{"start":6902.24,"end":6904.24,"text":"薪水的部分"},{"start":6904.24,"end":6906.24,"text":"這部分"},{"start":6906.24,"end":6908.24,"text":"會是希望"},{"start":6908.24,"end":6910.24,"text":"秋人這邊或民眾黨這邊"},{"start":6910.24,"end":6912.24,"text":"其實也可以來去考慮這件事情"},{"start":6916.24,"end":6918.24,"text":"主席那個"},{"start":6918.24,"end":6920.24,"text":"因為我們可能對於"},{"start":6920.24,"end":6922.24,"text":"那個部長的回應我們需要"},{"start":6922.24,"end":6924.24,"text":"一點時間去思索"},{"start":6924.24,"end":6926.24,"text":"那有沒有可能我們先從"},{"start":6926.24,"end":6928.24,"text":"因為前會有點喬不攏"},{"start":6928.24,"end":6930.24,"text":"有沒有可能先從第五個假開始"},{"start":6930.24,"end":6932.24,"text":"產假開始"},{"start":6932.24,"end":6934.24,"text":"好"},{"start":6934.24,"end":6936.24,"text":"所以現在就要決定"},{"start":6936.24,"end":6938.24,"text":"反正第一項"},{"start":6938.24,"end":6940.24,"text":"也都沒那個"},{"start":6940.24,"end":6942.24,"text":"有沒有其他委員"},{"start":6942.24,"end":6944.24,"text":"針對於"},{"start":6944.24,"end":6946.24,"text":"那個家庭照顧假"},{"start":6952.24,"end":6954.24,"text":"在場的兩位委員"},{"start":6954.24,"end":6956.24,"text":"因為剛剛勞動部的說明"},{"start":6962.24,"end":6964.24,"text":"好"},{"start":6968.24,"end":6970.24,"text":"所以我想問"},{"start":6970.24,"end":6972.24,"text":"村民動亡以外"},{"start":6972.24,"end":6974.24,"text":"兩位委員也是針對這個"},{"start":6980.24,"end":6982.24,"text":"這個家庭照顧假"},{"start":6982.24,"end":6984.24,"text":"我以前其實就一直爭取"},{"start":6984.24,"end":6986.24,"text":"那剛剛部長"},{"start":6986.24,"end":6988.24,"text":"講的那個數據我也完全理解"},{"start":6988.24,"end":6990.24,"text":"就是我之前"},{"start":6990.24,"end":6992.24,"text":"在上屆擔任立委的時候"},{"start":6992.24,"end":6994.24,"text":"就已經有提出來過"},{"start":6994.24,"end":6996.24,"text":"但是就是因為後來都卡到"},{"start":6996.24,"end":6998.24,"text":"經費的問題"},{"start":6998.24,"end":7000.24,"text":"的確就是有新的家庭照顧假"},{"start":7000.24,"end":7002.24,"text":"就計算起來的成本的確是高的"},{"start":7002.24,"end":7004.24,"text":"那我覺得這個議題"},{"start":7004.24,"end":7006.24,"text":"可以持續討論"},{"start":7006.24,"end":7008.24,"text":"但是那個經費的來源"},{"start":7008.24,"end":7010.24,"text":"的確是可以再思考一下"},{"start":7010.24,"end":7012.24,"text":"那當然我今天的討論"},{"start":7012.24,"end":7014.24,"text":"我會比較專注在前面的第十六條"},{"start":7014.24,"end":7016.24,"text":"我認為那個"},{"start":7016.24,"end":7018.24,"text":"如果有擴大給家長"},{"start":7018.24,"end":7020.24,"text":"更多的方便性跟彈性"},{"start":7020.24,"end":7022.24,"text":"去請假而且是有新的"},{"start":7022.24,"end":7024.24,"text":"那某種程度他有cover到"},{"start":7024.24,"end":7026.24,"text":"至少這個"},{"start":7026.24,"end":7028.24,"text":"低年級就是一二年級的"},{"start":7028.24,"end":7030.24,"text":"他是有新的"},{"start":7030.24,"end":7032.24,"text":"某種程度也是家庭照顧假"},{"start":7032.24,"end":7034.24,"text":"也是育兒假也是親子假"},{"start":7034.24,"end":7036.24,"text":"其實都可以涵蓋在前面了"},{"start":7036.24,"end":7038.24,"text":"那現在原來我有提出版本"},{"start":7038.24,"end":7040.24,"text":"這個家庭照顧假當然是希望說"},{"start":7040.24,"end":7042.24,"text":"如果更好我們可以在往上"},{"start":7042.24,"end":7044.24,"text":"提升但是剛剛部長提到的"},{"start":7044.24,"end":7046.24,"text":"經費的問題我也都可以理解"},{"start":7046.24,"end":7048.24,"text":"所以我想就是還是"},{"start":7048.24,"end":7050.24,"text":"民眾黨一個就把"},{"start":7050.24,"end":7052.24,"text":"大家剛剛提到是說用10"},{"start":7052.24,"end":7054.24,"text":"過去事實上好現在用10"},{"start":7054.24,"end":7056.24,"text":"我不會做單位這部分"},{"start":7058.24,"end":7060.24,"text":"因為現在"},{"start":7060.24,"end":7062.24,"text":"我們就有今年"},{"start":7062.24,"end":7064.24,"text":"開始嘗試讓家庭照顧假"},{"start":7064.24,"end":7066.24,"text":"可以用小10來請"},{"start":7066.24,"end":7068.24,"text":"那這部分其實我目前"},{"start":7068.24,"end":7070.24,"text":"聽到在業界其實"},{"start":7070.24,"end":7072.24,"text":"好評都還算不錯"},{"start":7072.24,"end":7074.24,"text":"但是當時我們是用解釋的方式"},{"start":7074.24,"end":7076.24,"text":"如果大家也同意的話其實我們是可以把"},{"start":7076.24,"end":7078.24,"text":"以小10來請這件事情"},{"start":7078.24,"end":7080.24,"text":"把它放到母法裡面"},{"start":7080.24,"end":7082.24,"text":"那讓他也更有一個法源這部分"},{"start":7082.24,"end":7084.24,"text":"我想我們是可以來"},{"start":7084.24,"end":7086.24,"text":"也是無薪可是"},{"start":7086.24,"end":7088.24,"text":"小10但是也因為比方說"},{"start":7088.24,"end":7090.24,"text":"會有一些勞工他可能請"},{"start":7090.24,"end":7092.24,"text":"一兩個小時"},{"start":7092.24,"end":7094.24,"text":"那他突然有一個緊急的需求"},{"start":7094.24,"end":7096.24,"text":"請一兩個小時所以對他來講"},{"start":7096.24,"end":7098.24,"text":"可能這個"},{"start":7098.24,"end":7100.24,"text":"收入上面的差別是比較還好的"},{"start":7100.24,"end":7102.24,"text":"狀況這樣子"},{"start":7102.24,"end":7104.24,"text":"給家長更多的彈性"},{"start":7104.24,"end":7106.24,"text":"就是"},{"start":7106.24,"end":7108.24,"text":"除了市價以外的多了一個家庭照顧假"},{"start":7108.24,"end":7110.24,"text":"可以請"},{"start":7110.24,"end":7112.24,"text":"用小10來請"},{"start":7112.24,"end":7114.24,"text":"現在就已經有只是沒有小10"},{"start":7114.24,"end":7116.24,"text":"現在是用解釋的方式"},{"start":7116.24,"end":7118.24,"text":"讓他可以用小10"},{"start":7118.24,"end":7120.24,"text":"但我們如果大家有共識的話我們也可以把"},{"start":7120.24,"end":7122.24,"text":"用小10這件事情把它放到母法裡面"},{"start":7122.24,"end":7124.24,"text":"也是可以的"},{"start":7124.24,"end":7126.24,"text":"我覺得你們可以寫一個版本"},{"start":7126.24,"end":7128.24,"text":"我覺得這讓他在母法裡面有彈性"},{"start":7128.24,"end":7130.24,"text":"我們是可以考慮的"},{"start":7132.24,"end":7134.24,"text":"就像"},{"start":7134.24,"end":7136.24,"text":"因為至少過去"},{"start":7136.24,"end":7138.24,"text":"一直在爭取可是現在目前"},{"start":7138.24,"end":7140.24,"text":"育兒的這一塊已經至少"},{"start":7140.24,"end":7142.24,"text":"在育兒假裡面已經鬆綁"},{"start":7142.24,"end":7144.24,"text":"那也是有心的"},{"start":7144.24,"end":7146.24,"text":"相對的家庭照顧假"},{"start":7146.24,"end":7148.24,"text":"這邊的需求"},{"start":7148.24,"end":7150.24,"text":"還是存在的至少"},{"start":7150.24,"end":7152.24,"text":"育兒這塊比較大宗的都已經在育兒"},{"start":7162.24,"end":7164.24,"text":"這樣好不好"},{"start":7164.24,"end":7166.24,"text":"我們就來把"},{"start":7166.24,"end":7168.24,"text":"可以用按小10請把它放到母法裡面"},{"start":7168.24,"end":7170.24,"text":"讓他在規範上面"},{"start":7170.24,"end":7172.24,"text":"可以更明確好不好"},{"start":7172.24,"end":7174.24,"text":"那我們以這個作為一個共識"},{"start":7174.24,"end":7176.24,"text":"來去處理這個問題"},{"start":7176.24,"end":7178.24,"text":"可是真的要讓他有心家庭照顧假"},{"start":7178.24,"end":7180.24,"text":"以目前財務上真的是非常非常的困難"},{"start":7180.24,"end":7182.24,"text":"我還是想跟各位委員"},{"start":7182.24,"end":7184.24,"text":"表達這件事情"},{"start":7184.24,"end":7186.24,"text":"所以我們才需要另批一個育兒假的概念"},{"start":7186.24,"end":7188.24,"text":"就是在這樣子"},{"start":7192.24,"end":7194.24,"text":"確認"},{"start":7252.24,"end":7254.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7254.24,"end":7256.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7256.24,"end":7258.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7258.24,"end":7260.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7260.24,"end":7262.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7262.24,"end":7264.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7264.24,"end":7266.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7266.24,"end":7268.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7268.24,"end":7270.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7270.24,"end":7272.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7272.24,"end":7274.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7274.24,"end":7276.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7276.24,"end":7278.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7278.24,"end":7280.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7280.24,"end":7282.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7282.24,"end":7284.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7284.24,"end":7286.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7286.24,"end":7288.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7288.24,"end":7290.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7290.24,"end":7292.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7292.24,"end":7294.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7294.24,"end":7296.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7296.24,"end":7298.24,"text":"我們就來把這個問題解決"},{"start":7298.24,"end":7300.2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所以他很寬"},{"start":7324.24,"end":7326.24,"text":"就是我跟委員說明"},{"start":7326.24,"end":7328.24,"text":"就是我跟委員說明"},{"start":7328.24,"end":7330.24,"text":"我跟委員說明就是"},{"start":7330.24,"end":7332.24,"text":"因為家庭照顧價他"},{"start":7332.24,"end":7334.24,"text":"很寬他就是只要家庭有成員"},{"start":7334.24,"end":7336.24,"text":"要照顧都可以使用"},{"start":7336.24,"end":7338.24,"text":"所以他也因為是這麼寬"},{"start":7338.24,"end":7340.24,"text":"他不是只有有小孩的才可以使用"},{"start":7340.24,"end":7342.24,"text":"所以他影響的範圍"},{"start":7342.24,"end":7344.24,"text":"跟可使用的範圍就會很大"},{"start":7344.24,"end":7346.24,"text":"所以他的財務一算上去就會很大"},{"start":7346.24,"end":7348.24,"text":"整個影響的範圍"},{"start":7348.24,"end":7350.24,"text":"都很大的原因"},{"start":7354.24,"end":7356.24,"text":"因為有小孩"},{"start":7358.24,"end":7360.24,"text":"所以委員我的意思是說"},{"start":7360.24,"end":7362.24,"text":"我們就才把他放到育兒假的概念裡面"},{"start":7362.24,"end":7364.24,"text":"去運用"},{"start":7364.24,"end":7366.24,"text":"也因為這樣把他拉出育兒假的概念"},{"start":7368.24,"end":7370.24,"text":"我懂部長的意思喔"},{"start":7370.24,"end":7372.24,"text":"因為我們剛剛在十六條討論的時候"},{"start":7372.24,"end":7374.24,"text":"其實你有講過嘛"},{"start":7374.24,"end":7376.24,"text":"就是說那個第一年起的"},{"start":7376.24,"end":7378.24,"text":"到未滿九歲"},{"start":7378.24,"end":7380.24,"text":"現在育兒假我個人覺得十六條"},{"start":7380.24,"end":7382.24,"text":"這個已經很好"},{"start":7382.24,"end":7384.24,"text":"但是他其實坦白講是少了一點點就是那個"},{"start":7384.24,"end":7386.24,"text":"十二歲以下中間"},{"start":7386.24,"end":7388.24,"text":"他必須請假"},{"start":7388.24,"end":7390.24,"text":"那你本來沒有說"},{"start":7390.24,"end":7392.24,"text":"他可以請假但是不給薪"},{"start":7392.24,"end":7394.24,"text":"但是回到原來"},{"start":7394.24,"end":7396.24,"text":"之前新公法修的"},{"start":7396.24,"end":7398.24,"text":"這個家庭照顧家他不是"},{"start":7398.24,"end":7400.24,"text":"專否家裡有小孩的"},{"start":7400.24,"end":7402.24,"text":"他其實輻射範圍太大"},{"start":7402.24,"end":7404.24,"text":"家裡家人有事通通"},{"start":7404.24,"end":7406.24,"text":"都算的"},{"start":7406.24,"end":7408.24,"text":"那我的意思是說"},{"start":7408.24,"end":7410.24,"text":"可不可以因為這一波修法大家現在關注"},{"start":7410.24,"end":7412.24,"text":"少子化的議題比較關注"},{"start":7412.24,"end":7414.24,"text":"就是家裡有小孩這件事"},{"start":7414.24,"end":7416.24,"text":"那所以是不是"},{"start":7416.24,"end":7418.24,"text":"好你說暫時錢沒有辦法"},{"start":7418.24,"end":7420.24,"text":"涵蓋那麼多但價總是"},{"start":7420.24,"end":7422.24,"text":"可以給吧或是你剛剛講的按小時"},{"start":7422.24,"end":7424.24,"text":"給的這樣的精神但不要"},{"start":7424.24,"end":7426.24,"text":"輻射範圍那麼廣"},{"start":7426.24,"end":7428.24,"text":"我的意思就是說在這裡面再多加"},{"start":7428.24,"end":7430.24,"text":"一個是就是"},{"start":7430.24,"end":7432.24,"text":"未滿家中有未滿"},{"start":7432.24,"end":7434.24,"text":"十二歲小孩的"},{"start":7434.24,"end":7436.24,"text":"你這樣子你就不會影響企業那麼多"},{"start":7436.24,"end":7438.24,"text":"反正現在少子化也沒有那麼多"},{"start":7438.24,"end":7440.24,"text":"可是可是如果是這樣"},{"start":7440.24,"end":7442.24,"text":"的話其實他還是可以用家照價"},{"start":7442.24,"end":7444.24,"text":"但是我覺得我們可能是先從"},{"start":7444.24,"end":7446.24,"text":"一些數據上來看我的意思說"},{"start":7446.24,"end":7448.24,"text":"我們現在的討論都還是需要"},{"start":7448.24,"end":7450.24,"text":"一些數據支撐"},{"start":7450.24,"end":7452.24,"text":"為什麼過去大家比較"},{"start":7452.24,"end":7454.24,"text":"聚焦在"},{"start":7454.24,"end":7456.24,"text":"拖陰"},{"start":7456.24,"end":7458.24,"text":"到右"},{"start":7458.24,"end":7460.24,"text":"到現在"},{"start":7460.24,"end":7462.24,"text":"到八歲"},{"start":7462.24,"end":7464.24,"text":"的原因"},{"start":7464.24,"end":7466.24,"text":"是因為這些比較小的小孩"},{"start":7466.24,"end":7468.24,"text":"他的各種需要"},{"start":7468.24,"end":7470.24,"text":"的狀況是真的比較多"},{"start":7470.24,"end":7472.24,"text":"而且多很多的"},{"start":7472.24,"end":7474.24,"text":"在我們很多的統計裡面"},{"start":7474.24,"end":7476.24,"text":"其實小孩進到了小學"},{"start":7476.24,"end":7478.24,"text":"甚至是兩二年級以後"},{"start":7478.24,"end":7480.24,"text":"其實會需要"},{"start":7480.24,"end":7482.24,"text":"的那個應對的狀況"},{"start":7482.24,"end":7484.24,"text":"其實就降低"},{"start":7484.24,"end":7486.24,"text":"很多所以我們"},{"start":7486.24,"end":7488.24,"text":"降低很多是可以比較是用"},{"start":7488.24,"end":7490.24,"text":"家照價的方式"},{"start":7490.24,"end":7492.24,"text":"來去應對的那我現在我們的確"},{"start":7492.24,"end":7494.24,"text":"是考慮說如果按照剛才講的話"},{"start":7494.24,"end":7496.24,"text":"假如一些應對是要去"},{"start":7496.24,"end":7498.24,"text":"處理小朋友在"},{"start":7498.24,"end":7500.24,"text":"學校裡面的活動"},{"start":7500.24,"end":7502.24,"text":"那我們就把"},{"start":7502.24,"end":7504.24,"text":"這樣的用途"},{"start":7504.24,"end":7506.24,"text":"把家照價的用途給擴大"},{"start":7506.24,"end":7508.24,"text":"讓他擴大把"},{"start":7508.24,"end":7510.24,"text":"這個小朋友的"},{"start":7510.24,"end":7512.24,"text":"學校活動"},{"start":7512.24,"end":7514.24,"text":"校園活動青絲會運動會"},{"start":7514.24,"end":7516.24,"text":"等等等等的也把它放到這裡面來"},{"start":7516.24,"end":7518.24,"text":"我們先做這一步好不好"},{"start":7518.24,"end":7520.24,"text":"對但是因為你的"},{"start":7520.24,"end":7522.24,"text":"總天數"},{"start":7522.24,"end":7524.24,"text":"加上試駕就七天"},{"start":7524.24,"end":7526.24,"text":"對"},{"start":7526.24,"end":7528.24,"text":"他沒有擴大但是使用"},{"start":7528.24,"end":7530.24,"text":"的用途是希望可以擴大"},{"start":7530.24,"end":7532.24,"text":"就是你"},{"start":7532.24,"end":7534.24,"text":"你之前有講一個就是"},{"start":7534.24,"end":7536.24,"text":"給價不給薪"},{"start":7536.24,"end":7538.24,"text":"因為沒有那麼龐大的經費"},{"start":7538.24,"end":7540.24,"text":"可以支援但是因為這是家照價"},{"start":7540.24,"end":7542.24,"text":"我們很難在二十條再去"},{"start":7542.24,"end":7544.24,"text":"家照價的名目就是這麼"},{"start":7544.24,"end":7546.24,"text":"寬"},{"start":7546.24,"end":7548.24,"text":"家照價"},{"start":7548.24,"end":7550.24,"text":"的名目就是這麼寬"},{"start":7550.24,"end":7552.24,"text":"其實不容易把家照價"},{"start":7552.24,"end":7554.24,"text":"對"},{"start":7556.24,"end":7558.24,"text":"主席"},{"start":7558.24,"end":7560.24,"text":"因為這樣子感覺有修跟沒修是一樣"},{"start":7560.24,"end":7562.24,"text":"哈哈哈"},{"start":7564.24,"end":7566.24,"text":"主席我可以請教發言"},{"start":7566.24,"end":7568.24,"text":"王生區委員"},{"start":7568.24,"end":7570.24,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":7570.24,"end":7572.24,"text":"這個我對於"},{"start":7572.24,"end":7574.24,"text":"如果要增加這個"},{"start":7574.24,"end":7576.24,"text":"擇訂一小時為請假"},{"start":7576.24,"end":7578.24,"text":"當然我個人其實是蠻贊同的"},{"start":7578.24,"end":7580.24,"text":"因為我們以前都是以"},{"start":7580.24,"end":7582.24,"text":"每一次的請假都是一天"},{"start":7582.24,"end":7584.24,"text":"事實上他需要的時間並不到一天"},{"start":7584.24,"end":7586.24,"text":"所以如果更有彈性的話"},{"start":7586.24,"end":7588.24,"text":"我相信對於這些"},{"start":7588.24,"end":7590.24,"text":"勞工朋友當他們要請假的時候"},{"start":7590.24,"end":7592.24,"text":"事實上是更有彈性"},{"start":7592.24,"end":7594.24,"text":"他可以把這個七天"},{"start":7594.24,"end":7596.24,"text":"好好地運用他不用只能夠"},{"start":7596.24,"end":7598.24,"text":"每天只能請到七天"},{"start":7598.24,"end":7600.24,"text":"那事實上可以請上半天"},{"start":7600.24,"end":7602.24,"text":"下半天是一個小時兩個小時"},{"start":7602.24,"end":7604.24,"text":"對他要去做一些"},{"start":7604.24,"end":7606.24,"text":"額外的處理的時候"},{"start":7606.24,"end":7608.24,"text":"事實上是很有幫忙"},{"start":7608.24,"end":7610.24,"text":"剛剛王委員在提的就是"},{"start":7610.24,"end":7612.24,"text":"我們這次的修法的重點"},{"start":7612.24,"end":7614.24,"text":"好像是希望能夠從"},{"start":7614.24,"end":7616.24,"text":"照顧幼兒的這個角度來"},{"start":7616.24,"end":7618.24,"text":"做一個訴求"},{"start":7618.24,"end":7620.24,"text":"不過事實上我們這部的"},{"start":7620.24,"end":7622.24,"text":"如果這個修訂"},{"start":7622.24,"end":7624.24,"text":"的內容的話已經也把"},{"start":7624.24,"end":7626.24,"text":"這個需求含掛在裡面"},{"start":7626.24,"end":7628.24,"text":"這樣事實上是不會影響到"},{"start":7628.24,"end":7630.24,"text":"我們這個本次"},{"start":7630.24,"end":7632.24,"text":"修法的一個主要訴求"},{"start":7632.24,"end":7634.24,"text":"不過這邊可不可以請那個"},{"start":7634.24,"end":7636.24,"text":"衛福這邊有沒有辦法提供"},{"start":7636.24,"end":7638.24,"text":"到底針對請這個假"},{"start":7638.24,"end":7640.24,"text":"目前有沒有數據"},{"start":7640.24,"end":7642.24,"text":"是哪一些的勞動朋友"},{"start":7642.24,"end":7644.24,"text":"他們最需要這個假"},{"start":7644.24,"end":7646.24,"text":"如果是他主要還是"},{"start":7646.24,"end":7648.24,"text":"用在照顧這個12歲以下的話"},{"start":7648.24,"end":7650.24,"text":"當然我們就認為"},{"start":7650.24,"end":7652.24,"text":"去限縮他是合理"},{"start":7652.24,"end":7654.24,"text":"我比較擔心的是一旦"},{"start":7654.24,"end":7656.24,"text":"限縮以後可能不是"},{"start":7656.24,"end":7658.24,"text":"12歲以下的這些"},{"start":7658.24,"end":7660.24,"text":"室友就沒辦法請假"},{"start":7660.24,"end":7662.24,"text":"那這樣反而也是影響到我們勞動朋友的權益"},{"start":7664.24,"end":7666.24,"text":"其實家照假真的是一個比較"},{"start":7666.24,"end":7668.24,"text":"general的概念"},{"start":7668.24,"end":7670.24,"text":"那他是一個真的是比較"},{"start":7670.24,"end":7672.24,"text":"他的範圍是最寬的"},{"start":7672.24,"end":7674.24,"text":"他幾乎是跟每個勞動朋友都有的特修是一樣"},{"start":7674.24,"end":7676.24,"text":"他是一個最寬的概念"},{"start":7676.24,"end":7678.24,"text":"那我們現在是希望"},{"start":7678.24,"end":7680.24,"text":"我們這波修法是特別希望來處理"},{"start":7680.24,"end":7682.24,"text":"顧小所需要的問題的時候"},{"start":7682.24,"end":7684.24,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們當時才"},{"start":7684.24,"end":7686.24,"text":"一直構思說"},{"start":7686.24,"end":7688.24,"text":"如果要單純從家照假來解這個問題的話"},{"start":7688.24,"end":7690.24,"text":"其實是很難解的"},{"start":7690.24,"end":7692.24,"text":"財務上面"},{"start":7692.24,"end":7694.24,"text":"假的數字上都很難解"},{"start":7694.24,"end":7696.24,"text":"所以我們後來才去想到說"},{"start":7696.24,"end":7698.24,"text":"用一個育兒假"},{"start":7698.24,"end":7700.24,"text":"那錢的部分從那邊來"},{"start":7700.24,"end":7702.24,"text":"那就數據上來看"},{"start":7702.24,"end":7704.24,"text":"的確也是看到"},{"start":7704.24,"end":7706.24,"text":"比較有需求的"},{"start":7706.24,"end":7708.24,"text":"都是在"},{"start":7708.24,"end":7710.24,"text":"8歲以下"},{"start":7710.24,"end":7712.24,"text":"就是這個還是回到"},{"start":7712.24,"end":7714.24,"text":"數據因為真的蠻多家長跟我們說"},{"start":7714.24,"end":7716.24,"text":"其實8歲"},{"start":7716.24,"end":7718.24,"text":"就真的是"},{"start":7718.24,"end":7720.24,"text":"低了"},{"start":7720.24,"end":7722.24,"text":"所以我們還是回到一個這個實證的數據"},{"start":7722.24,"end":7724.24,"text":"上面來看的話才覺得說"},{"start":7724.24,"end":7726.24,"text":"好那如果大家需要的話我們拉到"},{"start":7726.24,"end":7728.24,"text":"剛剛講育兒假的8歲"},{"start":7728.24,"end":7730.24,"text":"就"},{"start":7730.24,"end":7732.24,"text":"來處理這個問題"},{"start":7732.24,"end":7734.24,"text":"那當然我們這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4,"end":8256.24,"text":"之前我有跟大家報告"},{"start":8256.24,"end":8258.24,"text":"其實我們現在看到ILO"},{"start":8258.24,"end":8260.24,"text":"他對產假的定義"},{"start":8260.24,"end":8262.24,"text":"那他的產假的定義如果對照"},{"start":8262.24,"end":8264.24,"text":"台灣的制度的話"},{"start":8264.24,"end":8266.24,"text":"比較像是台灣的"},{"start":8266.24,"end":8268.24,"text":"產假加台灣的"},{"start":8268.24,"end":8270.24,"text":"產檢假"},{"start":8270.24,"end":8272.24,"text":"比較是在這個定義裡面"},{"start":8272.24,"end":8274.24,"text":"所以如果今天來看國際上面的"},{"start":8274.24,"end":8276.24,"text":"定義的話我們認為可能產假"},{"start":8276.24,"end":8278.24,"text":"加產檢假是應該要"},{"start":8278.24,"end":8280.24,"text":"一起來做"},{"start":8280.24,"end":8282.24,"text":"一起來做思考的"},{"start":8282.24,"end":8284.24,"text":"部分所以可能不是只是"},{"start":8284.24,"end":8286.24,"text":"說12週"},{"start":8286.24,"end":8288.24,"text":"比國際上ILO的14週"},{"start":8288.24,"end":8290.24,"text":"少因為如果要把產檢假也"},{"start":8290.24,"end":8292.24,"text":"放進來思考的話"},{"start":8292.24,"end":8294.24,"text":"是要一起來看待的"},{"start":8294.24,"end":8296.24,"text":"以上所以我們"},{"start":8296.24,"end":8298.24,"text":"還是希望能夠爭取"},{"start":8298.24,"end":8300.24,"text":"這個12週的部分"},{"start":8300.24,"end":8302.24,"text":"就是把8週變成12週"},{"start":8302.24,"end":8304.24,"text":"那在15條裡面我們"},{"start":8304.24,"end":8306.24,"text":"另外有在處理了其他部分"},{"start":8306.24,"end":8308.24,"text":"都相對比較有共識就是"},{"start":8308.24,"end":8310.24,"text":"把賠產假賠產跟賠產檢假"},{"start":8310.24,"end":8312.24,"text":"從原本的7天然後"},{"start":8312.24,"end":8314.24,"text":"增加到14天"},{"start":8314.24,"end":8316.24,"text":"那這些所有增加的價別"},{"start":8316.24,"end":8318.24,"text":"的薪水都是全新"},{"start":8318.24,"end":8320.24,"text":"由政府來負擔"},{"start":8320.24,"end":8322.24,"text":"這部分我們是確定的這樣子"},{"start":8324.24,"end":8326.24,"text":"好"},{"start":8326.24,"end":8328.24,"text":"謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":8328.24,"end":8330.24,"text":"那關於產假的部分"},{"start":8330.24,"end":8332.24,"text":"那我想國際的潮流就是14週"},{"start":8332.24,"end":8334.24,"text":"那勞動部當然這邊"},{"start":8334.24,"end":8336.24,"text":"也從現行的8週提升"},{"start":8336.24,"end":8338.24,"text":"為12週我們予以肯定"},{"start":8338.24,"end":8340.24,"text":"但是其實離國際的潮流"},{"start":8340.24,"end":8342.24,"text":"還有一段路"},{"start":8342.24,"end":8344.24,"text":"那我們再思考說如何讓這一段"},{"start":8344.24,"end":8346.24,"text":"路能夠也能夠在台灣"},{"start":8346.24,"end":8348.24,"text":"有一個開花"},{"start":8348.24,"end":8350.24,"text":"結果的一個局面"},{"start":8350.24,"end":8352.24,"text":"那當然剛剛部長這邊有提到說"},{"start":8352.24,"end":8354.24,"text":"國外的14週裡頭"},{"start":8354.24,"end":8356.24,"text":"可能有包括產檢假"},{"start":8356.24,"end":8358.24,"text":"雖然我們的版本是主張14週"},{"start":8358.24,"end":8360.24,"text":"但我們也願意把14週"},{"start":8360.24,"end":8362.24,"text":"的這個時間如果納入"},{"start":8362.24,"end":8364.24,"text":"產檢假這樣的一個價別"},{"start":8364.24,"end":8366.24,"text":"來做一個整體的考量"},{"start":8366.24,"end":8368.24,"text":"所以我們這邊的想法是說"},{"start":8368.24,"end":8370.24,"text":"您的12週我們可以接受"},{"start":8370.24,"end":8372.24,"text":"那12週本來現行法"},{"start":8372.24,"end":8374.24,"text":"就有7天的產檢假"},{"start":8374.24,"end":8376.24,"text":"那是不是能夠在額外的我們來"},{"start":8376.24,"end":8378.24,"text":"替這些婦女同胞來爭取"},{"start":8378.24,"end":8380.24,"text":"多7天的產檢假"},{"start":8380.24,"end":8382.24,"text":"所以我們可能12週加現行的1週"},{"start":8382.24,"end":8384.24,"text":"再多爭取1週"},{"start":8384.24,"end":8386.24,"text":"其實整體而言就是14週"},{"start":8386.24,"end":8388.24,"text":"那也能夠追上國際的潮流"},{"start":8388.24,"end":8390.24,"text":"那爸爸的部分當然我們覺得"},{"start":8390.24,"end":8392.24,"text":"7天的賠產檢假加產檢假"},{"start":8392.24,"end":8394.24,"text":"7天不夠那想要提升到"},{"start":8394.24,"end":8396.24,"text":"多7天那當然勞動部這邊"},{"start":8396.24,"end":8398.24,"text":"提出的版本也是跟我們吻合的"},{"start":8398.24,"end":8400.24,"text":"那請部長就是針對我們的剛那一種"},{"start":8400.24,"end":8402.24,"text":"12加1加1變成14天"},{"start":8402.24,"end":8404.24,"text":"追上國際潮流這個"},{"start":8404.24,"end":8406.24,"text":"給我們一些回饋"},{"start":8406.24,"end":8408.24,"text":"我覺得這邊"},{"start":8408.24,"end":8410.24,"text":"我也同意剛剛講因為"},{"start":8410.24,"end":8412.24,"text":"其他國家的做法"},{"start":8412.24,"end":8414.24,"text":"是產檢假"},{"start":8414.24,"end":8416.24,"text":"那我認為事實上是可以增加到3天"},{"start":8418.24,"end":8420.24,"text":"因為就等於10天10天就是2週的概念"},{"start":8420.24,"end":8422.24,"text":"不是所謂14天"},{"start":8422.24,"end":8424.24,"text":"因為我們剛剛講"},{"start":8424.24,"end":8426.24,"text":"因為如果符合剛剛講的那個"},{"start":8426.24,"end":8428.24,"text":"產"},{"start":8428.24,"end":8430.24,"text":"我們的產假本來好"},{"start":8430.24,"end":8432.24,"text":"他12週我們希望14週"},{"start":8432.24,"end":8434.24,"text":"那如果說產檢假的確"},{"start":8434.24,"end":8436.24,"text":"產檢的整個"},{"start":8436.24,"end":8438.24,"text":"的項目大概14次嘛"},{"start":8438.24,"end":8440.24,"text":"所以我覺得如果增加這個的話"},{"start":8440.24,"end":8442.24,"text":"那對於"},{"start":8442.24,"end":8444.24,"text":"要產檢的人的那個需求"},{"start":8444.24,"end":8446.24,"text":"也被滿足而且剛好也"},{"start":8446.24,"end":8448.24,"text":"符合這樣子等於也是14週"},{"start":8448.24,"end":8450.24,"text":"因為講週"},{"start":8450.24,"end":8452.24,"text":"的話事實上6日是"},{"start":8452.24,"end":8454.24,"text":"涵蓋的嘛可是如果是"},{"start":8454.24,"end":8456.24,"text":"講天的話事實上是沒有"},{"start":8456.24,"end":8458.24,"text":"那如果這樣也是"},{"start":8458.24,"end":8460.24,"text":"14週以上我的意見"},{"start":8460.24,"end":8462.24,"text":"是這樣"},{"start":8462.24,"end":8464.24,"text":"因為我"},{"start":8464.24,"end":8466.24,"text":"謝謝主席因為這幾天"},{"start":8466.24,"end":8468.24,"text":"我有詢問很多提案的委員們"},{"start":8468.24,"end":8470.24,"text":"本黨也有很多"},{"start":8470.24,"end":8472.24,"text":"這個委員關心這樣子的意見"},{"start":8472.24,"end":8474.24,"text":"那我剛剛上網查了一下"},{"start":8476.24,"end":8478.24,"text":"其實有一個新的資訊"},{"start":8478.24,"end":8480.24,"text":"是ILO他現在是"},{"start":8480.24,"end":8482.24,"text":"建議大家至少"},{"start":8482.24,"end":8484.24,"text":"14週而且ILO"},{"start":8484.24,"end":8486.24,"text":"也開始統計世界上"},{"start":8486.24,"end":8488.24,"text":"在實施16週的國家"},{"start":8488.24,"end":8490.24,"text":"有哪一些"},{"start":8490.24,"end":8492.24,"text":"所以這個"},{"start":8492.24,"end":8494.24,"text":"並且是沒有含產檢的這個部分"},{"start":8494.24,"end":8496.24,"text":"所以這個是"},{"start":8496.24,"end":8498.24,"text":"現在國際的一個"},{"start":8498.24,"end":8500.24,"text":"母性保護的基本的基準"},{"start":8500.24,"end":8502.24,"text":"那我大概有兩個"},{"start":8502.24,"end":8504.24,"text":"論點希望勞動部長官"},{"start":8504.24,"end":8506.24,"text":"也可以"},{"start":8506.24,"end":8508.24,"text":"考量進去"},{"start":8508.24,"end":8510.24,"text":"第一個就是"},{"start":8510.24,"end":8512.24,"text":"今年出生的人數"},{"start":8512.24,"end":8514.24,"text":"可能初步"},{"start":8514.24,"end":8516.24,"text":"估計9萬出頭"},{"start":8516.24,"end":8518.24,"text":"這些人真的"},{"start":8518.24,"end":8520.24,"text":"比起20年前10年前"},{"start":8520.24,"end":8522.24,"text":"其實我們應該要"},{"start":8522.24,"end":8524.24,"text":"鼓勵大家可以"},{"start":8524.24,"end":8526.24,"text":"生更多才對不然我們這樣子"},{"start":8526.24,"end":8528.24,"text":"會沒有回頭路了"},{"start":8528.24,"end":8530.24,"text":"我希望可以在母嬰的保健上"},{"start":8530.24,"end":8532.24,"text":"盡量放寬並且"},{"start":8532.24,"end":8534.24,"text":"體恤母親"},{"start":8534.24,"end":8536.24,"text":"新生兒的照顧的時間所以"},{"start":8536.24,"end":8538.24,"text":"我們很多委員還是希望"},{"start":8538.24,"end":8540.24,"text":"就維持在14週這是第一個"},{"start":8540.24,"end":8542.24,"text":"論點第二個論點是"},{"start":8542.24,"end":8544.24,"text":"我們去統計了很多國家"},{"start":8544.24,"end":8546.24,"text":"他們有去做產"},{"start":8546.24,"end":8548.24,"text":"價的時間跟新生兒"},{"start":8548.24,"end":8550.24,"text":"跟母親"},{"start":8550.24,"end":8552.24,"text":"死亡率還有母親憂鬱的"},{"start":8552.24,"end":8554.24,"text":"是成反比的也就是"},{"start":8554.24,"end":8556.24,"text":"產價越長其實"},{"start":8556.24,"end":8558.24,"text":"這個媽媽是身心"},{"start":8558.24,"end":8560.24,"text":"包括心理健康都有"},{"start":8560.24,"end":8562.24,"text":"休息的意義他的"},{"start":8562.24,"end":8564.24,"text":"憂鬱症是降低的另外"},{"start":8564.24,"end":8566.24,"text":"14週他可以"},{"start":8566.24,"end":8568.24,"text":"讓他在前端新生兒"},{"start":8568.24,"end":8570.24,"text":"施打疫苗比較平凡的"},{"start":8570.24,"end":8572.24,"text":"期間他不會有遺漏"},{"start":8572.24,"end":8574.24,"text":"疫苗所以新生兒死亡率"},{"start":8574.24,"end":8576.24,"text":"也是比較低的那"},{"start":8576.24,"end":8578.24,"text":"另外呢"},{"start":8578.24,"end":8580.24,"text":"我去翻找了一些以前的提案"},{"start":8580.24,"end":8582.24,"text":"這其實不是我們這屆"},{"start":8582.24,"end":8584.24,"text":"出現的主張大概第"},{"start":8584.24,"end":8586.24,"text":"十屆高價於委員就"},{"start":8586.24,"end":8588.24,"text":"已經在提案說產價"},{"start":8588.24,"end":8590.24,"text":"應該由8週改成14週"},{"start":8590.24,"end":8592.24,"text":"連署的委員還包括"},{"start":8592.24,"end":8594.24,"text":"張廖萬堅委員"},{"start":8594.24,"end":8596.24,"text":"蘇巧慧邱益盈林俊憲"},{"start":8596.24,"end":8598.24,"text":"王美慧劉世芳林楚英"},{"start":8598.24,"end":8600.24,"text":"余天范雲周春敏"},{"start":8600.24,"end":8602.24,"text":"吳思瑤莊瑞雄何志偉"},{"start":8602.24,"end":8604.24,"text":"沈發慧賴品虞陳秀寶"},{"start":8604.24,"end":8606.24,"text":"蔡依宇陳穎裡面非常非常多"},{"start":8606.24,"end":8608.24,"text":"為大家現在聽到的"},{"start":8608.24,"end":8610.24,"text":"也是要進駐現在的縣市長選舉"},{"start":8610.24,"end":8612.24,"text":"所以我相信他們也希望"},{"start":8612.24,"end":8614.24,"text":"可以跟選民兌現他們"},{"start":8614.24,"end":8616.24,"text":"以前要為這些"},{"start":8616.24,"end":8618.24,"text":"產價為這些產婦們"},{"start":8618.24,"end":8620.24,"text":"奮鬥的這些"},{"start":8620.24,"end":8622.24,"text":"以前的希望"},{"start":8622.24,"end":8624.24,"text":"希望可以繼續延續下去"},{"start":8624.24,"end":8626.24,"text":"那另外呢2014年的時候"},{"start":8626.24,"end":8628.24,"text":"林淑芬委員也有提出"},{"start":8628.24,"end":8630.24,"text":"延長到14週的一個"},{"start":8630.24,"end":8632.24,"text":"修正動議"},{"start":8632.24,"end":8634.24,"text":"那范雲委員更因為這個"},{"start":8634.24,"end":8636.24,"text":"14週的國際標準"},{"start":8636.24,"end":8638.24,"text":"有接受BBC的訪問"},{"start":8638.24,"end":8640.24,"text":"所以這個是討論"},{"start":8640.24,"end":8642.24,"text":"超過10年的一個很重要的議題"},{"start":8642.24,"end":8644.24,"text":"因此"},{"start":8644.24,"end":8646.24,"text":"本席還是主張可以"},{"start":8646.24,"end":8648.24,"text":"維持產價14週"},{"start":8648.24,"end":8650.24,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8650.24,"end":8652.24,"text":"勞動部"},{"start":8652.24,"end":8654.24,"text":"我想跟委員討論就是說"},{"start":8654.24,"end":8656.24,"text":"因為"},{"start":8656.24,"end":8658.24,"text":"我們其實這段時間也跟幾個"},{"start":8658.24,"end":8660.24,"text":"產價他有提過產價14週"},{"start":8660.24,"end":8662.24,"text":"因為他去思考"},{"start":8662.24,"end":8664.24,"text":"ILO"},{"start":8664.24,"end":8666.24,"text":"那我們也跟他說"},{"start":8666.24,"end":8668.24,"text":"讓他知道說其實在定義上面的確"},{"start":8668.24,"end":8670.24,"text":"ILO他們提的這個"},{"start":8670.24,"end":8672.24,"text":"產價的定義"},{"start":8672.24,"end":8674.24,"text":"他們是從那個"},{"start":8674.24,"end":8676.24,"text":"懷孕確定"},{"start":8676.24,"end":8678.24,"text":"懷孕開始就開始計"},{"start":8678.24,"end":8680.24,"text":"但我們的產價"},{"start":8680.24,"end":8682.24,"text":"其實是那個"},{"start":8682.24,"end":8684.24,"text":"是產前一個月"},{"start":8684.24,"end":8686.24,"text":"到產後可以"},{"start":8686.24,"end":8688.24,"text":"所以我們的確"},{"start":8688.24,"end":8690.24,"text":"我們的這個產價"},{"start":8690.24,"end":8692.24,"text":"的定義跟ILO是有一點落差"},{"start":8692.24,"end":8694.24,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們剛才說"},{"start":8694.24,"end":8696.24,"text":"ILO他的產價"},{"start":8696.24,"end":8698.24,"text":"包括我們的產價加我們的產檢價"},{"start":8698.24,"end":8700.24,"text":"那我想提一個方案"},{"start":8700.24,"end":8702.24,"text":"有沒有一個方案大家剛剛其實提出"},{"start":8702.24,"end":8704.24,"text":"我是認為一個折衷的方案"},{"start":8704.24,"end":8706.24,"text":"如果我們的確"},{"start":8706.24,"end":8708.24,"text":"從產檢價的角度來"},{"start":8708.24,"end":8710.24,"text":"去增加"},{"start":8710.24,"end":8712.24,"text":"因為我們的產檢價等於在前面"},{"start":8712.24,"end":8714.24,"text":"那我也提到有一些委員其實過去"},{"start":8714.24,"end":8716.24,"text":"也提到說現在我們公費的產檢"},{"start":8716.24,"end":8718.24,"text":"其實也變成可以14次了"},{"start":8718.24,"end":8720.24,"text":"那公費產檢可以14次"},{"start":8720.24,"end":8722.24,"text":"可是的確不一定每次的產檢"},{"start":8722.24,"end":8724.24,"text":"一定他都是請一整天"},{"start":8724.24,"end":8726.24,"text":"食物上面他可能是請"},{"start":8726.24,"end":8728.24,"text":"半天幾個小時"},{"start":8728.24,"end":8730.24,"text":"所以我們其實現在也讓我們的產檢價"},{"start":8730.24,"end":8732.24,"text":"是可以按"},{"start":8732.24,"end":8734.24,"text":"小時半天來去請"},{"start":8734.24,"end":8736.24,"text":"可是即便是"},{"start":8736.24,"end":8738.24,"text":"我知道即便是按小時半天來去請"},{"start":8738.24,"end":8740.24,"text":"也會有一些"},{"start":8740.24,"end":8742.24,"text":"人有一些產婦會覺得"},{"start":8742.24,"end":8744.24,"text":"7天的產檢價真的"},{"start":8744.24,"end":8746.24,"text":"不太夠"},{"start":8746.24,"end":8748.24,"text":"我們有沒有一種可能 我的確想跟委員討論"},{"start":8748.24,"end":8750.24,"text":"我們有從"},{"start":8750.24,"end":8752.24,"text":"增加產檢價的方式"},{"start":8752.24,"end":8754.24,"text":"等於是產檢價加"},{"start":8754.24,"end":8756.24,"text":"台灣的產價"},{"start":8756.24,"end":8758.24,"text":"來去趨向"},{"start":8758.24,"end":8760.24,"text":"現在國際的所謂"},{"start":8760.24,"end":8762.24,"text":"ILO的14週"},{"start":8762.24,"end":8764.24,"text":"用這個方法 那我也要跟"},{"start":8764.24,"end":8766.24,"text":"委員說明其實台灣的產價"},{"start":8766.24,"end":8768.24,"text":"我們在給薪"},{"start":8768.24,"end":8770.24,"text":"方面是比國際"},{"start":8770.24,"end":8772.24,"text":"都來得優渥的"},{"start":8772.24,"end":8774.24,"text":"剛剛講ILO"},{"start":8774.24,"end":8776.24,"text":"ILO並沒有講說產價要給全新喔"},{"start":8776.24,"end":8778.24,"text":"我們現在在看日本"},{"start":8778.24,"end":8780.24,"text":"跟韓國"},{"start":8780.24,"end":8782.24,"text":"他們的產價也是一樣"},{"start":8782.24,"end":8784.24,"text":"他們是前面是全新"},{"start":8784.24,"end":8786.24,"text":"後面就變成2%"},{"start":8786.24,"end":8788.24,"text":"可是我們的產價"},{"start":8788.24,"end":8790.24,"text":"是全段"},{"start":8790.24,"end":8792.24,"text":"都是全新的"},{"start":8792.24,"end":8794.24,"text":"我們在薪水給的方面是"},{"start":8794.24,"end":8796.24,"text":"更優渥的 好那現在是在"},{"start":8796.24,"end":8798.24,"text":"長短的部分 我們有沒有可能"},{"start":8798.24,"end":8800.24,"text":"我的確可以覺得可以討論"},{"start":8800.24,"end":8802.24,"text":"就是從增加產檢價的方式"},{"start":8802.24,"end":8804.24,"text":"來"},{"start":8804.24,"end":8806.24,"text":"去補那個跟國際"},{"start":8806.24,"end":8808.24,"text":"上面的一個落差 好"},{"start":8808.24,"end":8810.24,"text":"所以我只想提一個"},{"start":8810.24,"end":8812.24,"text":"事情說因為上禮拜有幾個"},{"start":8812.24,"end":8814.24,"text":"婦女團體跟"},{"start":8814.24,"end":8816.24,"text":"托育團體有出來開"},{"start":8816.24,"end":8818.24,"text":"記者會 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