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初期委員已足法定人數現在開會"},{"start":1602.68,"end":1607.68,"text":"首先進行報告事項 請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1608.42,"end":1611.42,"text":"立法院第11屆第6會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":1611.42,"end":1613.92,"text":"第三次全體委員會議議事錄時間"},{"start":1613.92,"end":1618.92,"text":"中華民國115年10月21日上午9時至12時27分"},{"start":1618.92,"end":1621.42,"text":"地點本案勤選樓101會議室"},{"start":1621.42,"end":1623.92,"text":"初期委員陳秀寶委員等12人"},{"start":1623.92,"end":1626.42,"text":"內席委員鍾家斌委員等10人"},{"start":1626.42,"end":1629.92,"text":"內席人員教育部政務次長張廖萬堅等人"},{"start":1629.92,"end":1632.42,"text":"主席陳昭吉委員裴宇"},{"start":1632.42,"end":1636.42,"text":"報告事項 1.宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定"},{"start":1636.92,"end":1641.42,"text":"教育部政務次長張廖萬堅列席就從共榮到共榮"},{"start":1641.42,"end":1646.92,"text":"我國普特融合教育政策推動與教育現場支持體系之檢討"},{"start":1646.92,"end":1649.42,"text":"進行專題報告並被質詢"},{"start":1649.42,"end":1653.42,"text":"本次會議有委員葛如金等15人提出質詢"},{"start":1653.42,"end":1655.92,"text":"軍經教育部政務次長張廖萬堅"},{"start":1656.65,"end":1658.65,"text":"及相關人員及其答复說明"},{"start":1658.65,"end":1664.65,"text":"另有委員護分區柯臻恩、徐欣瑩、邱志偉提出數面質詢決定"},{"start":1665.09,"end":1667.09,"text":"1.報告及詢答完畢"},{"start":1667.09,"end":1672.09,"text":"2.對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答复部分"},{"start":1672.09,"end":1674.09,"text":"請相關機關進述與數面答复"},{"start":1674.09,"end":1675.09,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":1679.79,"end":1681.79,"text":"再一場委員為答議決人數三人"},{"start":1681.79,"end":1683.79,"text":"議事入哨後再行確定"},{"start":1683.79,"end":1690.79,"text":"本次會議程式邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、法務部內政部警政署及衛生福利部列席就"},{"start":1690.79,"end":1697.79,"text":"毒品校園篩檢、毒品滲入校園現況及防治科技查緝策略及跨部會輔導"},{"start":1697.79,"end":1700.79,"text":"藉此機制進行專題報告並被質詢"},{"start":1700.79,"end":1701.79,"text":"首先介紹"},{"start":1703.01,"end":1704.01,"text":"與會官員"},{"start":1706.74,"end":1707.74,"text":"會議結束"},{"start":1708.44,"end":1709.44,"text":"好 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大家好"},{"start":1768.79,"end":1770.79,"text":"首先謝謝委員會的一個安排"},{"start":1770.79,"end":1771.79,"text":"讓教育部能就"},{"start":1771.79,"end":1773.79,"text":"毒品效源篩檢"},{"start":1773.79,"end":1775.79,"text":"毒品滲入校園現況及防治"},{"start":1775.79,"end":1777.79,"text":"科技器材策略"},{"start":1777.79,"end":1780.79,"text":"暨跨部會輔導戒制機制"},{"start":1780.79,"end":1781.79,"text":"進行專題報告"},{"start":1781.79,"end":1783.79,"text":"進行各位委員會議"},{"start":1784.56,"end":1785.56,"text":"執政跟支持"},{"start":1786.35,"end":1789.35,"text":"近年來新興毒品的樣態確實持續變化"},{"start":1789.35,"end":1791.35,"text":"如電子煙作為主要採劑"},{"start":1791.35,"end":1795.35,"text":"增加了青少年辨識以防護的難度"},{"start":1795.8,"end":1799.8,"text":"也相對增加了對學生身心健康的一個威脅"},{"start":1799.8,"end":1801.8,"text":"跟校園安全的挑戰"},{"start":1803.85,"end":1806.85,"text":"113年起我們看到伊托米茲"},{"start":1806.85,"end":1808.85,"text":"已經在校園安全"},{"start":1809.69,"end":1814.69,"text":"這個毒品的樣態已經高居第二位"},{"start":1814.69,"end":1817.69,"text":"雖然各年度也仍以Keta"},{"start":1819.16,"end":1821.16,"text":"Keta命為最多"},{"start":1821.16,"end":1825.16,"text":"從113年起伊托米茲已躍居第二位"},{"start":1825.16,"end":1827.16,"text":"為因應這波的一個挑戰"},{"start":1827.16,"end":1829.16,"text":"本部積極配合行政院"},{"start":1829.16,"end":1831.16,"text":"新世代緩毒策略行動"},{"start":1831.16,"end":1832.16,"text":"綱領第三期"},{"start":1832.16,"end":1836.16,"text":"跨部會以地方資源緊扣辨識風險"},{"start":1836.16,"end":1839.16,"text":"阻斷來源及時處議金主輔導"},{"start":1839.16,"end":1843.16,"text":"四大工作主軸積極落實各項作為"},{"start":1843.16,"end":1845.16,"text":"首先在辨識風險方面"},{"start":1845.16,"end":1848.16,"text":"我們積極推動一方宣導"},{"start":1848.16,"end":1852.16,"text":"與健康與體育領域課程納入電子研議"},{"start":1852.16,"end":1854.16,"text":"毒品危害防治教育"},{"start":1854.16,"end":1856.16,"text":"並推動入班宣導"},{"start":1856.16,"end":1858.16,"text":"也結合民間團體辦理巡迴特展"},{"start":1858.16,"end":1861.16,"text":"以反毒細細行為主軸積極"},{"start":1861.85,"end":1863.85,"text":"尋遠並增加"},{"start":1863.84,"end":1868.84,"text":"一托米紙及毒價危害電子研議防治的內容"},{"start":1868.84,"end":1869.84,"text":"今年"},{"start":1870.47,"end":1873.47,"text":"強化家庭防毒宣導"},{"start":1874.15,"end":1876.15,"text":"單張及影片的一個製作"},{"start":1876.15,"end":1880.15,"text":"協助家長認識毒品危害並尋求資源"},{"start":1880.78,"end":1882.78,"text":"以學校共同守護學生"},{"start":1883.94,"end":1886.94,"text":"其次是在跨部會協力阻斷來源"},{"start":1886.94,"end":1889.94,"text":"持續與警政與相關單位合作"},{"start":1889.94,"end":1891.94,"text":"結合自然熱點"},{"start":1891.94,"end":1895.94,"text":"在全國3602所學校裡邊"},{"start":1895.94,"end":1898.94,"text":"有9643個"},{"start":1899.75,"end":1902.75,"text":"校園周邊熱點的一個巡查"},{"start":1902.75,"end":1905.75,"text":"落實校園連巡以企圖溯源"},{"start":1905.75,"end":1906.75,"text":"此為我們積極參與"},{"start":1906.75,"end":1909.75,"text":"衛福部新興雨品防治"},{"start":1909.75,"end":1910.75,"text":"防害"},{"start":1912.81,"end":1914.81,"text":"雨品危害防治策驗會及"},{"start":1914.81,"end":1916.81,"text":"高等檢察署汽足會議"},{"start":1916.81,"end":1921.81,"text":"從源頭防阻以達成校外主毒之目標"},{"start":1921.81,"end":1922.81,"text":"第三"},{"start":1922.81,"end":1925.81,"text":"精準的篩檢通報及及時處理"},{"start":1925.81,"end":1928.81,"text":"學校以及各學校特定的人員"},{"start":1930.11,"end":1932.11,"text":"尿液篩檢及輔導作業要點"},{"start":1932.88,"end":1934.88,"text":"辦理特定人員提列"},{"start":1934.88,"end":1937.88,"text":"定期跟不定期的一個尿液篩檢"},{"start":1937.88,"end":1941.88,"text":"尿液初篩陽性急送"},{"start":1941.88,"end":1943.88,"text":"衛福部任何機構確認檢驗"},{"start":1943.88,"end":1945.88,"text":"如有疑似毒品或適用"},{"start":1947.07,"end":1949.07,"text":"去聚集一交集"},{"start":1950.06,"end":1951.06,"text":"警察機關處理"},{"start":1951.06,"end":1952.06,"text":"第四"},{"start":1952.06,"end":1953.06,"text":"精準輔導已轉介"},{"start":1953.06,"end":1957.06,"text":"學生如有經檢驗確認"},{"start":1957.06,"end":1960.06,"text":"自我坦承遭警察查獲等情形"},{"start":1960.06,"end":1962.06,"text":"學校應進行校園通報"},{"start":1962.06,"end":1964.06,"text":"並成立充分小組"},{"start":1964.06,"end":1965.06,"text":"提供"},{"start":1966.46,"end":1969.46,"text":"試讀辨識毒品拒絕技巧"},{"start":1969.46,"end":1972.46,"text":"生活技能以家庭教育等輔導"},{"start":1972.46,"end":1974.46,"text":"並試需求轉介醫療"},{"start":1974.46,"end":1977.46,"text":"介隱防毒毒防中心"},{"start":1977.46,"end":1980.46,"text":"少會及社政資源"},{"start":1980.46,"end":1982.46,"text":"在精進防治的一個策略方面"},{"start":1982.46,"end":1985.46,"text":"首先從今年的一個10月"},{"start":1985.46,"end":1987.46,"text":"我們教育部已啟動"},{"start":1987.46,"end":1989.46,"text":"校園安全任性2000的計畫"},{"start":1989.46,"end":1991.46,"text":"這項為期三年"},{"start":1991.46,"end":1992.46,"text":"重點在強化"},{"start":1993.32,"end":1996.32,"text":"全國國民中學的校安人力"},{"start":1996.32,"end":2000.32,"text":"能夠協助校來處理學生事務跟圖案"},{"start":2001.02,"end":2004.02,"text":"狀況包含這個防毒的一個防範"},{"start":2005.14,"end":2008.14,"text":"充實校安2000名的人力協助"},{"start":2009.42,"end":2013.42,"text":"其實在脫藝規劃引入脫藝快篩"},{"start":2014.84,"end":2016.84,"text":"強化跨部會的合作"},{"start":2020.14,"end":2021.14,"text":"為提升"},{"start":2022.56,"end":2025.56,"text":"並及早介入本部也將規劃"},{"start":2025.56,"end":2028.56,"text":"脫藝快篩納入特定人員的一個"},{"start":2028.56,"end":2031.56,"text":"篩檢的一個提醒方案"},{"start":2031.56,"end":2033.56,"text":"那麼也培訓這個總職教師"},{"start":2033.56,"end":2037.56,"text":"也與警政署共同依據這個共同供應契約"},{"start":2037.56,"end":2038.56,"text":"這個"},{"start":2039.39,"end":2041.39,"text":"等待這個毒品"},{"start":2041.39,"end":2043.39,"text":"危害防治條例完成以後"},{"start":2043.39,"end":2045.39,"text":"我們即將脫藝"},{"start":2045.39,"end":2047.39,"text":"將這個校園"},{"start":2047.39,"end":2049.3900000000003,"text":"增加一個脫藝快篩"},{"start":2049.3900000000003,"end":2051.3900000000003,"text":"協助學生的一個"},{"start":2051.3900000000003,"end":2053.3900000000003,"text":"快速的及早的發現"},{"start":2053.3900000000003,"end":2055.3900000000003,"text":"跟教育跟輔導"},{"start":2055.3900000000003,"end":2056.3900000000003,"text":"那麼另外"},{"start":2056.3900000000003,"end":2059.3900000000003,"text":"我們也對整合電子菸跟毒品的一個"},{"start":2059.3900000000003,"end":2060.3900000000003,"text":"處理流程"},{"start":2060.3900000000003,"end":2062.3900000000003,"text":"也研定了一個操作指引"},{"start":2062.3900000000003,"end":2063.3900000000003,"text":"希望能夠"},{"start":2063.3900000000003,"end":2065.3900000000003,"text":"增加這個"},{"start":2065.3900000000003,"end":2067.3900000000003,"text":"及早發現通報篩檢"},{"start":2067.39,"end":2069.39,"text":"物品移交以及轉介等程序"},{"start":2069.39,"end":2070.39,"text":"以上"},{"start":2070.39,"end":2072.39,"text":"謝謝我們各位委員進行指正"},{"start":2072.39,"end":2073.39,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2075.45,"end":2077.45,"text":"謝謝政部長報告"},{"start":2078.15,"end":2080.15,"text":"其餘提出書面報告機關代表"},{"start":2080.15,"end":2082.15,"text":"除書面外有無口頭補充報告"},{"start":2083.01,"end":2084.01,"text":"沒有"},{"start":2084.01,"end":2086.01,"text":"那機關代表報告完畢"},{"start":2086.01,"end":2088.01,"text":"相關書面資料請各位參閱列入"},{"start":2088.01,"end":2090.01,"text":"並列入公報記錄"},{"start":2090.01,"end":2091.01,"text":"那現在進行詢答"},{"start":2091.01,"end":2093.01,"text":"每位出席委員質詢六分鐘"},{"start":2093.01,"end":2095.01,"text":"必要時間延長兩分鐘"},{"start":2095.01,"end":2097.01,"text":"列席委員質詢時間為四分鐘"},{"start":2097.01,"end":2099.01,"text":"登記"},{"start":2099.01,"end":2101.01,"text":"發言登記截止時間為上午十點"},{"start":2101.63,"end":2103.63,"text":"委員如果有臨時提案"},{"start":2103.63,"end":2105.63,"text":"請於上午十點半前提出"},{"start":2105.63,"end":2109.63,"text":"並與本會委員葉元之質詢結束後即進行處理"},{"start":2109.63,"end":2111.63,"text":"處理提案時若"},{"start":2111.63,"end":2113.63,"text":"提案委員及連署委員均不在場"},{"start":2113.63,"end":2115.63,"text":"原例不予處理"},{"start":2115.79,"end":2117.79,"text":"首先請登記第一位陳培於委員質詢"},{"start":2123.95,"end":2125.95,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":2125.95,"end":2127.95,"text":"這裡有請教育部"},{"start":2127.95,"end":2129.95,"text":"還有衛福部"},{"start":2136.1,"end":2138.1,"text":"請教育部政部長"},{"start":2138.1,"end":2140.1,"text":"還有衛福部"},{"start":2139.68,"end":2141.68,"text":"次長了"},{"start":2140.8,"end":2142.8,"text":"好可以謝謝"},{"start":2142.75,"end":2144.75,"text":"好兩位早安"},{"start":2144.75,"end":2146.75,"text":"我想要跟兩位請教一下"},{"start":2146.75,"end":2147.75,"text":"不知道你們有沒有看過"},{"start":2147.75,"end":2149.75,"text":"最近網路上有一個影片"},{"start":2149.75,"end":2151.75,"text":"這個我想要先放聲音給你們聽聽看就好了"},{"start":2151.75,"end":2153.75,"text":"來等一下"},{"start":2163.21,"end":2165.21,"text":"部長聽清楚嗎"},{"start":2165.21,"end":2167.21,"text":"要"},{"start":2167.21,"end":2169.21,"text":"再放一次"},{"start":2171.64,"end":2175.64,"text":"現在社區是大家每天在跳舞運動的地方"},{"start":2175.64,"end":2177.64,"text":"以後變成社工人員在那邊"},{"start":2177.64,"end":2179.64,"text":"都是很多吸毒的人來給毒品毒藥"},{"start":2179.64,"end":2181.64,"text":"來來治癒"},{"start":2184.25,"end":2186.25,"text":"我想衛福部這邊聽得很清楚了"},{"start":2186.25,"end":2188.25,"text":"好我們請衛福部回答"},{"start":2188.25,"end":2190.25,"text":"這個是李彥秀立法委員"},{"start":2190.25,"end":2192.25,"text":"現任立法委員在一個公開活動"},{"start":2192.25,"end":2194.25,"text":"上面說社工會在社區"},{"start":2194.25,"end":2196.25,"text":"發放毒品給我們的社區居民"},{"start":2196.25,"end":2198.25,"text":"請問衛福部針對"},{"start":2198.25,"end":2200.25,"text":"像這樣造謠的發言"},{"start":2200.25,"end":2202.25,"text":"甚至是抹黑第一線社工努力"},{"start":2202.25,"end":2204.25,"text":"的發言衛福部有做什麼樣的處理嗎"},{"start":2204.25,"end":2206.25,"text":"包委員我們事實上"},{"start":2206.25,"end":2208.25,"text":"在10月10號立即"},{"start":2208.25,"end":2210.25,"text":"這個發出新聞稿"},{"start":2210.25,"end":2212.25,"text":"針對這個我們的"},{"start":2212.25,"end":2214.25,"text":"害事實上是希望說在"},{"start":2214.25,"end":2216.25,"text":"這個"},{"start":2216.25,"end":2218.25,"text":"吸毒就是"},{"start":2218.25,"end":2220.25,"text":"民眾他在沒有辦法"},{"start":2220.25,"end":2222.25,"text":"減少他的這個毒害的時候"},{"start":2222.25,"end":2224.25,"text":"我們可以提供這個"},{"start":2224.25,"end":2226.25,"text":"醫療的方式來做治療"},{"start":2226.25,"end":2228.25,"text":"就是減害治療嘛對不對"},{"start":2228.25,"end":2230.25,"text":"那這個事情實行多久了"},{"start":2230.25,"end":2232.25,"text":"從2005年左右開始就有了"},{"start":2232.25,"end":2234.25,"text":"2005年"},{"start":2234.25,"end":2236.25,"text":"所以當時的台北市"},{"start":2236.25,"end":2238.25,"text":"現在台北市市長蔣萬安市長"},{"start":2238.25,"end":2240.25,"text":"當時他是立法委員我們看過相關公報"},{"start":2240.25,"end":2242.25,"text":"他也做過質詢他也做過提案"},{"start":2242.25,"end":2244.25,"text":"其實他是知道這件事情對不對"},{"start":2244.25,"end":2246.25,"text":"他應該市長"},{"start":2246.25,"end":2248.25,"text":"他立法委員應該在後比較後面啦"},{"start":2248.25,"end":2250.25,"text":"不過應該就都有看過這件事"},{"start":2250.25,"end":2252.25,"text":"我們來看一下蔣市長在上"},{"start":2252.25,"end":2254.25,"text":"相關政論節目的時候繼續說"},{"start":2254.25,"end":2256.25,"text":"什麼這一題等一下也會跟教育部有關係"},{"start":2256.25,"end":2258.25,"text":"我們來看看相關的反毒"},{"start":2258.25,"end":2260.25,"text":"相關毒品深入校園系統裡面"},{"start":2260.25,"end":2262.25,"text":"如何陪伴孩子"},{"start":2262.25,"end":2264.25,"text":"做出正確的媒體試讀"},{"start":2265.57,"end":2267.57,"text":"他就是明明主張"},{"start":2267.57,"end":2269.57,"text":"在社區設立中心"},{"start":2269.57,"end":2271.57,"text":"要來發放毒品跟針頭"},{"start":2273.13,"end":2275.13,"text":"再聽一次"},{"start":2282.51,"end":2284.51,"text":"其實就一句話"},{"start":2312.51,"end":2314.51,"text":"請問蔣市長是否有誤導青少年的發言"},{"start":2314.51,"end":2316.51,"text":"來請衛福部跟教育部說明"},{"start":2316.51,"end":2318.51,"text":"我先說"},{"start":2318.51,"end":2320.51,"text":"這個其實我們已經重複說明很多次了"},{"start":2320.51,"end":2322.51,"text":"在這個檢態的政策的部分"},{"start":2322.51,"end":2324.51,"text":"一直都是在醫療院所在"},{"start":2324.51,"end":2326.51,"text":"經過這個"},{"start":2326.51,"end":2328.51,"text":"專業訓練的醫師藥師社工人員"},{"start":2328.51,"end":2330.51,"text":"來發放這個"},{"start":2330.51,"end":2332.51,"text":"也要當著這個"},{"start":2332.51,"end":2334.51,"text":"民眾的面"},{"start":2334.51,"end":2336.51,"text":"必須要把每三種喝下去"},{"start":2336.51,"end":2338.51,"text":"那另外一個真據的部分"},{"start":2338.51,"end":2340.51,"text":"事實上我們是在一般的"},{"start":2340.51,"end":2342.51,"text":"社區"},{"start":2342.51,"end":2344.51,"text":"但他的清潔真據的部分"},{"start":2344.51,"end":2346.51,"text":"我們也讓這個警察"},{"start":2346.51,"end":2348.51,"text":"這邊也不要再去追蹤"},{"start":2348.51,"end":2350.51,"text":"那這個部分就是希望說"},{"start":2350.51,"end":2352.51,"text":"他可以在這個無法"},{"start":2352.51,"end":2354.51,"text":"完全戒毒的"},{"start":2354.51,"end":2356.51,"text":"狀況之下"},{"start":2356.51,"end":2358.51,"text":"可以利用這個清潔真據的部分"},{"start":2358.51,"end":2360.51,"text":"讓他可以減少這個感染"},{"start":2360.51,"end":2362.51,"text":"事實上對我們HIV的防治"},{"start":2362.51,"end":2364.51,"text":"有很大的貢獻"},{"start":2364.51,"end":2366.51,"text":"那從原來2005年的"},{"start":2366.51,"end":2368.51,"text":"74%左右的感染率"},{"start":2368.51,"end":2370.51,"text":"目前降到只有1.幾%"},{"start":2370.51,"end":2372.51,"text":"是因為這個"},{"start":2372.51,"end":2374.51,"text":"打針毒品所造成的"},{"start":2374.51,"end":2376.51,"text":"以上"},{"start":2376.51,"end":2378.51,"text":"那教育部呢"},{"start":2378.51,"end":2380.51,"text":"就相關媒體試毒的角度"},{"start":2380.51,"end":2382.51,"text":"如果真的有孩子看了這個影片"},{"start":2382.51,"end":2384.51,"text":"開始以為李彥秀跟蔣萬安說"},{"start":2384.51,"end":2386.51,"text":"他們要在社區發放毒品"},{"start":2386.51,"end":2388.51,"text":"甚至他們輸出這樣的言論"},{"start":2388.51,"end":2390.51,"text":"誤導了小孩請問你們怎麼看"},{"start":2390.51,"end":2392.51,"text":"教育部就媒體試毒的部分"},{"start":2392.51,"end":2394.51,"text":"你們在做毒品滲透一定會有很多"},{"start":2394.51,"end":2396.51,"text":"媒體試毒的素材嘛對不對"},{"start":2396.51,"end":2398.51,"text":"我們在教育的觀點"},{"start":2398.51,"end":2400.51,"text":"我們在除了這個健康以"},{"start":2400.51,"end":2402.51,"text":"這個教育的"},{"start":2402.51,"end":2404.51,"text":"教育的課程的教學以外"},{"start":2404.51,"end":2406.51,"text":"我們事實上也鼓勵老師在班級"},{"start":2406.51,"end":2408.51,"text":"經營或者榮譽學科裡邊"},{"start":2408.51,"end":2410.51,"text":"透過一個兩難的議題"},{"start":2410.51,"end":2412.51,"text":"讓學生能夠去思辨"},{"start":2412.51,"end":2414.51,"text":"包含這個校園毒品"},{"start":2414.51,"end":2416.51,"text":"為什麼凌容人"},{"start":2416.51,"end":2418.51,"text":"毒品怎麼對身體產生"},{"start":2418.51,"end":2420.51,"text":"一些傷害等等的許多"},{"start":2420.51,"end":2422.51,"text":"辯證的一個方式"},{"start":2422.51,"end":2424.51,"text":"而不是直接給答案"},{"start":2424.51,"end":2426.51,"text":"其實我們在教育部的"},{"start":2426.51,"end":2428.51,"text":"歷史案例讓同學去"},{"start":2428.51,"end":2430.51,"text":"課堂上裡面去討論"},{"start":2430.51,"end":2432.51,"text":"我想這都是我們從一個"},{"start":2432.51,"end":2434.51,"text":"教育的觀點能夠希望透過"},{"start":2434.51,"end":2436.51,"text":"這樣一個方式來讓學生的"},{"start":2436.51,"end":2438.51,"text":"身心能夠有一個"},{"start":2438.51,"end":2440.51,"text":"更強烈的抵抗誘惑的"},{"start":2440.51,"end":2442.51,"text":"這樣的一個"},{"start":2442.51,"end":2444.51,"text":"謝謝部長就教育家的觀點來做回覆"},{"start":2444.51,"end":2446.51,"text":"也謝謝衛福部就公衛的角度來做回覆"},{"start":2446.51,"end":2448.51,"text":"我要說今天這個題目我們直接往下看"},{"start":2448.51,"end":2450.51,"text":"確實在這幾年裡面"},{"start":2450.51,"end":2452.51,"text":"上市煙彈持續入侵校園"},{"start":2452.51,"end":2454.51,"text":"其實學生的人數越來越多"},{"start":2454.51,"end":2456.51,"text":"如同剛兩位長官所說的"},{"start":2456.51,"end":2458.51,"text":"不論是因為媒體的效應社群"},{"start":2458.51,"end":2460.51,"text":"擴散的原因或者是因為"},{"start":2460.51,"end":2462.51,"text":"其他不正確的認識"},{"start":2462.51,"end":2464.51,"text":"導致孩子們接觸了毒品往下看"},{"start":2464.51,"end":2466.51,"text":"確實教育部做了很多的事情"},{"start":2466.51,"end":2468.51,"text":"你們拍了很多的影片"},{"start":2468.51,"end":2470.51,"text":"部長我就直接破題了這邊影片的"},{"start":2470.51,"end":2472.51,"text":"全部都是教育部所做的"},{"start":2472.51,"end":2474.51,"text":"可是我們看到觀看數量其實很低"},{"start":2474.51,"end":2476.51,"text":"我覺得非常非常的可惜"},{"start":2476.51,"end":2478.51,"text":"那我會說"},{"start":2478.51,"end":2480.51,"text":"如果影片是現在世代的青少年們"},{"start":2480.51,"end":2482.51,"text":"容易接觸而且也喜歡接觸的媒材"},{"start":2482.51,"end":2484.51,"text":"那確實教育部也做了努力"},{"start":2484.51,"end":2486.51,"text":"可是因為相看的觀看流量"},{"start":2486.51,"end":2488.51,"text":"其實真的有一點低"},{"start":2488.51,"end":2490.51,"text":"我很想知道也很想要拜託教育部跟衛福部"},{"start":2490.51,"end":2492.51,"text":"如何未來在跨部會裡面"},{"start":2492.51,"end":2494.51,"text":"透過青少年所喜歡的媒材"},{"start":2494.51,"end":2496.51,"text":"容易接近的媒材"},{"start":2496.51,"end":2498.51,"text":"把相關的反毒或者是毒品"},{"start":2498.51,"end":2500.51,"text":"會造成什麼樣的傷害"},{"start":2500.51,"end":2502.51,"text":"能夠讓他們靠近"},{"start":2502.51,"end":2504.51,"text":"也就是可親近這件事情非常重要"},{"start":2504.51,"end":2506.51,"text":"我必須要說宣導方式必須包含"},{"start":2506.51,"end":2508.51,"text":"但不限於健康課本"},{"start":2508.51,"end":2510.51,"text":"大型講座海報文宣競賽等等"},{"start":2510.51,"end":2512.51,"text":"所以我要說相關的消疫"},{"start":2512.51,"end":2514.51,"text":"真的要拜託兩部會繼續努力"},{"start":2514.51,"end":2516.51,"text":"我們來看下一張"},{"start":2516.51,"end":2518.51,"text":"現在因為毒品誘惑的手段不斷地反省"},{"start":2518.51,"end":2520.51,"text":"其實傳統的反毒真的已經沒有辦法"},{"start":2520.51,"end":2522.51,"text":"讓青少年靠近這些素材"},{"start":2522.51,"end":2524.51,"text":"那我想要舉一個例子"},{"start":2524.51,"end":2526.51,"text":"例如說我們去跟一個很愛抽菸的人"},{"start":2526.51,"end":2528.51,"text":"或是很喜歡喝"},{"start":2528.51,"end":2530.51,"text":"含糖飲料很高然後沒有"},{"start":2530.51,"end":2532.51,"text":"每天沒有注重自己身體健康的人跟他說"},{"start":2532.51,"end":2534.51,"text":"你不要再抽菸了喔抽菸對你有害"},{"start":2534.51,"end":2536.51,"text":"一句話對他其實沒有辦法產生影響"},{"start":2536.51,"end":2538.51,"text":"可是如果我們持續跟他們互動"},{"start":2538.51,"end":2540.51,"text":"而且創造他們喜歡的媒材"},{"start":2540.51,"end":2542.51,"text":"我認為這件事情非常重要"},{"start":2542.51,"end":2544.51,"text":"而且要告訴兩位長官"},{"start":2544.51,"end":2546.51,"text":"在我頭影片最下方我有講到一個非常重要的事情"},{"start":2546.51,"end":2548.51,"text":"青少年之所以會選擇"},{"start":2548.51,"end":2550.51,"text":"使用不論是毒品"},{"start":2550.51,"end":2552.51,"text":"或所謂的刺激毒品或所謂的電子菸"},{"start":2552.51,"end":2554.51,"text":"家人菸有很大一部分可能"},{"start":2554.51,"end":2556.51,"text":"是因為心理因素"},{"start":2556.51,"end":2558.51,"text":"在青春期的階段情緒的困擾"},{"start":2558.51,"end":2560.51,"text":"壓力很大好奇心想或者是尋求刺激"},{"start":2560.51,"end":2562.51,"text":"甚至是受到同儕所影響"},{"start":2562.51,"end":2564.51,"text":"或者是家庭關係"},{"start":2564.51,"end":2566.51,"text":"所導致"},{"start":2566.51,"end":2568.51,"text":"因為家庭功能不彰"},{"start":2568.51,"end":2570.51,"text":"我想要跟兩位報告一個很重要的研究"},{"start":2570.51,"end":2572.51,"text":"這個研究有100多頁"},{"start":2572.51,"end":2574.51,"text":"我們來看一下是法務部"},{"start":2574.51,"end":2576.51,"text":"司法官學院的研究成果"},{"start":2576.51,"end":2578.51,"text":"非常非常重要的研究成果"},{"start":2578.51,"end":2580.51,"text":"在講台灣青少年毒品的"},{"start":2580.51,"end":2582.51,"text":"施用跟心理健康的關聯性"},{"start":2582.51,"end":2584.51,"text":"研究以涉毒"},{"start":2584.51,"end":2586.51,"text":"收容少年為例"},{"start":2586.51,"end":2588.51,"text":"這個因為研究很長我就不再"},{"start":2588.51,"end":2590.51,"text":"贅述但是有一段結論對我們"},{"start":2590.51,"end":2592.51,"text":"過去在做教育工作人來說非常的重要"},{"start":2592.51,"end":2594.51,"text":"收容少年涉毒的原因"},{"start":2594.51,"end":2596.51,"text":"沒有辦法用因果關係"},{"start":2596.51,"end":2598.51,"text":"來作為定論但是我們可以"},{"start":2598.51,"end":2600.51,"text":"歸納出碰毒的規律"},{"start":2600.51,"end":2602.51,"text":"原生家庭的影響最為"},{"start":2602.51,"end":2604.51,"text":"直接在家獲取不到"},{"start":2604.51,"end":2606.51,"text":"支持使得少年向外"},{"start":2606.51,"end":2608.51,"text":"尋求認可然而偏差的文化"},{"start":2608.51,"end":2610.51,"text":"同儕價值觀"},{"start":2610.51,"end":2612.51,"text":"卻會造就少年不正確"},{"start":2612.51,"end":2614.51,"text":"的態度跟信念心理的"},{"start":2614.51,"end":2616.51,"text":"狀態也沒有辦法持續成長"},{"start":2616.51,"end":2618.51,"text":"如父母主要照顧著"},{"start":2618.51,"end":2620.51,"text":"學校無力承接住這些青少年"},{"start":2620.51,"end":2622.51,"text":"他就勢必會走離"},{"start":2622.51,"end":2624.51,"text":"偏離正軌導致最後無法"},{"start":2624.51,"end":2626.51,"text":"管教因為觸法而進入"},{"start":2626.51,"end":2628.51,"text":"矯正機構這個"},{"start":2628.51,"end":2630.51,"text":"一百多頁的結論我要拜託兩部會"},{"start":2630.51,"end":2632.51,"text":"一定要去看雖然是法務部做的"},{"start":2632.51,"end":2634.51,"text":"研究而這個研究真的告訴"},{"start":2634.51,"end":2636.51,"text":"我們我相信在兩位長官"},{"start":2636.51,"end":2638.51,"text":"未來在做更多推動"},{"start":2638.51,"end":2640.51,"text":"反毒的事情的時候拜託把這樣的"},{"start":2640.51,"end":2642.51,"text":"事情放在心裡也就是"},{"start":2642.51,"end":2644.51,"text":"孩子們並不是真的不知道"},{"start":2644.51,"end":2646.51,"text":"毒品有害他們也不是不知道"},{"start":2646.51,"end":2648.51,"text":"毒品會殘害他們的身心但是"},{"start":2648.51,"end":2650.51,"text":"可能因為心理的因素"},{"start":2650.51,"end":2652.51,"text":"因為家庭的因素因為社區的"},{"start":2652.51,"end":2654.51,"text":"影響因為同儕的影響他們"},{"start":2654.51,"end":2656.51,"text":"在沒有辦法抵抗情況"},{"start":2656.51,"end":2658.51,"text":"下他就走上了偏離正軌"},{"start":2658.51,"end":2660.51,"text":"這條路而未來就如同"},{"start":2660.51,"end":2662.51,"text":"剛剛部長說的除了透過辯證性"},{"start":2662.51,"end":2664.51,"text":"的思考跟研究之外"},{"start":2664.51,"end":2666.51,"text":"我們還可以做哪些更積極的事情"},{"start":2666.51,"end":2668.51,"text":"來協助這些孩子們來下一章"},{"start":2668.51,"end":2670.51,"text":"最後一章所以我想做"},{"start":2670.51,"end":2672.51,"text":"這麼多研究之後我們辦公室"},{"start":2672.51,"end":2674.51,"text":"想要給兩部會甚至是未來"},{"start":2674.51,"end":2676.51,"text":"法務部提出具體的建議第一個"},{"start":2676.51,"end":2678.51,"text":"我認為要擴大政策研究包含"},{"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support的帶翻"},{"start":3099.99,"end":3101.99,"text":"比率還是非常的高很顯然"},{"start":3101.99,"end":3103.99,"text":"的我們的support完全沒有到位"},{"start":3103.99,"end":3105.99,"text":"我們先來看一下這個部分"},{"start":3105.99,"end":3107.99,"text":"我們從數據來講話嘛"},{"start":3107.99,"end":3109.99,"text":"從112年到這個114"},{"start":3109.99,"end":3111.99,"text":"部長我不是講34級毒品"},{"start":3111.99,"end":3113.99,"text":"是非常嚴重的12級毒品"},{"start":3113.99,"end":3115.99,"text":"它的增幅是到440%"},{"start":3115.99,"end":3117.99,"text":"然後呢就像我剛剛"},{"start":3117.99,"end":3119.99,"text":"所提到的再翻的比率"},{"start":3119.99,"end":3121.99,"text":"還有這個通報率的這個部分"},{"start":3121.99,"end":3123.99,"text":"是完全高達的"},{"start":3123.99,"end":3125.99,"text":"28.9%"},{"start":3125.99,"end":3127.99,"text":"當這個數據呢是官方的"},{"start":3127.99,"end":3129.99,"text":"數據裡面顯示我們"},{"start":3129.99,"end":3131.99,"text":"教育部在做這些事情的時候"},{"start":3131.99,"end":3133.99,"text":"即使你告訴我說我們的"},{"start":3133.99,"end":3135.99,"text":"宣傳費用我們宣傳的"},{"start":3135.99,"end":3137.99,"text":"這個達標率達到的"},{"start":3137.99,"end":3139.99,"text":"很高的比率但是"},{"start":3139.99,"end":3141.99,"text":"我們孩子在染毒還有毒網"},{"start":3141.99,"end":3143.99,"text":"已經進入校園這是一個不爭的事實"},{"start":3143.99,"end":3145.99,"text":"而且呢更重要的是"},{"start":3145.99,"end":3147.99,"text":"目前我想部長你如果"},{"start":3147.99,"end":3149.99,"text":"要掌握的話可能法務部或相關單位"},{"start":3149.99,"end":3151.99,"text":"你可以知道非常多是"},{"start":3151.99,"end":3153.99,"text":"以毒養毒的食物鏈"},{"start":3153.99,"end":3155.99,"text":"因為我們有很多小蜜蜂充斥在校園當中"},{"start":3155.99,"end":3157.99,"text":"然後你也知道的"},{"start":3157.99,"end":3159.99,"text":"伊托米亞這個煙彈裡面"},{"start":3159.99,"end":3161.99,"text":"其實讓學生很容易"},{"start":3161.99,"end":3163.99,"text":"去說上癮然後呢"},{"start":3163.99,"end":3165.99,"text":"他們即使被然後我們再往"},{"start":3165.99,"end":3167.99,"text":"往來看看反效之後又被拉回毒品團"},{"start":3167.99,"end":3169.99,"text":"所以這就是28.9%"},{"start":3169.99,"end":3171.99,"text":"所以我們的社會支持在哪裡"},{"start":3171.99,"end":3173.99,"text":"我也不知道"},{"start":3175.1,"end":3177.1,"text":"我想委員本身也是一個"},{"start":3177.1,"end":3179.1,"text":"教育的一個專家學者"},{"start":3179.1,"end":3181.1,"text":"我們很清楚"},{"start":3181.1,"end":3183.1,"text":"任何一個處方任何一個"},{"start":3183.1,"end":3185.1,"text":"教育的一個介入"},{"start":3185.1,"end":3187.1,"text":"要一下子能夠百分之百達到"},{"start":3187.1,"end":3189.1,"text":"一個這個效果我想"},{"start":3189.1,"end":3191.1,"text":"還要再努力我們看到"},{"start":3191.1,"end":3193.1,"text":"任何一個solution如果"},{"start":3193.1,"end":3195.1,"text":"我們看到的是28.9%"},{"start":3195.1,"end":3197.1,"text":"在校園裡面的"},{"start":3197.1,"end":3199.1,"text":"青少年兒童的再換力"},{"start":3199.1,"end":3201.1,"text":"我想這是我們繼續要努力的空間"},{"start":3201.1,"end":3203.1,"text":"但是請不要忘掉"},{"start":3203.1,"end":3205.1,"text":"他有另外的70幾%"},{"start":3205.1,"end":3207.1,"text":"來部長部長"},{"start":3207.1,"end":3209.1,"text":"我當然知道這不是一蹴即成"},{"start":3209.1,"end":3211.1,"text":"但是這件事情我們討論多久了"},{"start":3211.1,"end":3213.1,"text":"不是你當部長的時候就開始"},{"start":3213.1,"end":3215.1,"text":"從2016甚至更早的時候"},{"start":3215.1,"end":3217.1,"text":"對於毒品進入校園我們已經給"},{"start":3217.1,"end":3219.1,"text":"我們的行政單位這麼久的時間"},{"start":3219.1,"end":3221.1,"text":"又不是說馬上告訴你"},{"start":3221.1,"end":3223.1,"text":"要來部分我們往下來看"},{"start":3223.1,"end":3225.1,"text":"謝謝委員是一個教育教的觀點"},{"start":3225.1,"end":3227.1,"text":"希望百分之百能夠"},{"start":3227.1,"end":3229.1,"text":"受拯救"},{"start":3229.1,"end":3231.1,"text":"但是我想我們會努力"},{"start":3231.1,"end":3233.1,"text":"我們就來看看努力的點"},{"start":3233.1,"end":3235.1,"text":"到底方向對不對我們每年花"},{"start":3235.1,"end":3237.1,"text":"很多的錢但是質詢率"},{"start":3237.1,"end":3239.1,"text":"沒有你想像中那麼好而且"},{"start":3239.1,"end":3241.1,"text":"最重要的是我們的宣導"},{"start":3241.1,"end":3243.1,"text":"常常流於形式因為"},{"start":3243.1,"end":3245.1,"text":"我們讀的問題已經是越來越"},{"start":3245.1,"end":3247.1,"text":"嚴重了所以我在想"},{"start":3247.1,"end":3249.1,"text":"教育部如果只是在於宣導"},{"start":3249.1,"end":3251.1,"text":"的層面後面的裡面"},{"start":3251.1,"end":3253.1,"text":"包括法務部警政單位"},{"start":3253.1,"end":3255.1,"text":"是否能夠介入來變成"},{"start":3255.1,"end":3257.1,"text":"一個勾機的單位這是"},{"start":3257.1,"end":3259.1,"text":"我們今天站在這邊來"},{"start":3259.1,"end":3261.1,"text":"討論的我們目前為止"},{"start":3261.1,"end":3263.1,"text":"我們來看看經費"},{"start":3263.1,"end":3265.1,"text":"預設的執行率說實在不高"},{"start":3265.1,"end":3267.1,"text":"而且最主要是你的"},{"start":3267.1,"end":3269.1,"text":"保留款是年年掛帳的"},{"start":3269.1,"end":3271.1,"text":"而且你的宣導常常就是KPI"},{"start":3271.1,"end":3273.1,"text":"因為我執行過我執行"},{"start":3273.1,"end":3275.1,"text":"了七年我很清楚那時候"},{"start":3275.1,"end":3277.1,"text":"我們對於新興毒品的及時防禦"},{"start":3277.1,"end":3279.1,"text":"我們目前還是劃上"},{"start":3279.1,"end":3281.1,"text":"一個問號而且每個人都承認"},{"start":3281.1,"end":3283.1,"text":"校園的黑數是很"},{"start":3283.1,"end":3285.1,"text":"龐大的很多時候"},{"start":3285.1,"end":3287.1,"text":"家長他不願意告訴"},{"start":3287.1,"end":3289.1,"text":"大家萬一被發現的時候"},{"start":3289.1,"end":3291.1,"text":"給孩子一個機會或者是"},{"start":3291.1,"end":3293.1,"text":"很多學校他也不願意主動提報"},{"start":3293.1,"end":3295.1,"text":"這都是我們所存在"},{"start":3295.1,"end":3297.1,"text":"的鐵釘釘的事實"},{"start":3297.1,"end":3299.1,"text":"然後學生網路上購買"},{"start":3299.1,"end":3301.1,"text":"毒品是非常容易部長"},{"start":3301.1,"end":3303.1,"text":"你知不知道使用方式販賣"},{"start":3303.1,"end":3305.1,"text":"還有電子煙還有這些毒品你的"},{"start":3305.1,"end":3307.1,"text":"罰款是多少你知道嗎"},{"start":3307.77,"end":3309.77,"text":"電子煙是一萬到"},{"start":3311.62,"end":3313.62,"text":"兩萬"},{"start":3314.15,"end":3316.15,"text":"來來我們看一下"},{"start":3316.15,"end":3318.15,"text":"我們這個部分你覺得這可以有辦法"},{"start":3318.15,"end":3320.15,"text":"來使用電子煙薪財幣兩千到一萬"},{"start":3320.15,"end":3322.15,"text":"販賣或展示是二十萬到一百萬"},{"start":3322.15,"end":3324.15,"text":"好不好"},{"start":3324.15,"end":3326.15,"text":"那你如果說是以兩千到一萬"},{"start":3326.15,"end":3328.15,"text":"來看你覺得這對於"},{"start":3328.15,"end":3330.15,"text":"一般人來說會造成一個"},{"start":3330.15,"end":3332.15,"text":"嚇阻的作用嗎"},{"start":3332.15,"end":3334.15,"text":"那我可不可以請法務部也上來"},{"start":3334.15,"end":3336.15,"text":"你認為像目前毒品"},{"start":3336.15,"end":3338.15,"text":"這樣的犯案這樣的罰則"},{"start":3338.15,"end":3340.15,"text":"有沒有必要來做一些的修正"},{"start":3340.26,"end":3342.26,"text":"我雖然不認為說"},{"start":3342.26,"end":3344.26,"text":"因為我們這個東西牽扯到太多的一個範圍"},{"start":3344.26,"end":3346.26,"text":"但是你面對這麼大的一個"},{"start":3346.26,"end":3348.26,"text":"所謂毒品已經入侵到"},{"start":3348.26,"end":3350.26,"text":"校園我們就不止停留在"},{"start":3350.26,"end":3352.26,"text":"一個宣傳跟這樣子"},{"start":3352.26,"end":3354.26,"text":"讓大家不要有這樣子的一個"},{"start":3354.26,"end":3356.26,"text":"概念或是媒體識度的概念"},{"start":3356.26,"end":3358.26,"text":"你認為罰的這個層面"},{"start":3358.26,"end":3360.26,"text":"刑責的部分裡面是不是有必要"},{"start":3360.26,"end":3362.26,"text":"來做修正"},{"start":3363.05,"end":3365.05,"text":"跟委員報告我們在毒品的這一塊"},{"start":3365.05,"end":3367.05,"text":"就是有關於校園的部分"},{"start":3367.05,"end":3369.05,"text":"他其實我們會"},{"start":3369.05,"end":3371.05,"text":"就是跟教育部這邊還有服務部這邊"},{"start":3371.05,"end":3373.05,"text":"我們再來做研究"},{"start":3373.05,"end":3375.05,"text":"那你明白告訴我啊你相較於其他國家"},{"start":3375.05,"end":3377.05,"text":"相較於其他國家我們的罰則"},{"start":3377.05,"end":3379.05,"text":"算是輕的有沒有討論過"},{"start":3379.05,"end":3381.05,"text":"要讓這個罰則能夠把它提高"},{"start":3381.05,"end":3383.05,"text":"其實我們目前的這個"},{"start":3383.05,"end":3385.05,"text":"罰則的一個部分就是說"},{"start":3385.05,"end":3387.05,"text":"我們毒品危害防治條例的一個規定"},{"start":3387.05,"end":3389.05,"text":"相關的罰則我們其實都有做明確"},{"start":3389.05,"end":3391.05,"text":"的規定針對第一級第二級第三級"},{"start":3391.05,"end":3393.05,"text":"第四級然後無論是"},{"start":3393.05,"end":3395.05,"text":"你們會再做一個滾動式的修正"},{"start":3395.05,"end":3397.05,"text":"因為跟過去不一樣"},{"start":3397.05,"end":3399.05,"text":"部長我們在我們那個年代我們什麼時候"},{"start":3399.05,"end":3401.05,"text":"聽過drug什麼時候聽過毒品"},{"start":3401.05,"end":3403.05,"text":"在我們現在這個時代裡面你看這個"},{"start":3403.05,"end":3405.05,"text":"毒品已經到做部分嘛"},{"start":3405.05,"end":3407.05,"text":"現在確實有針對委員所關心的"},{"start":3407.05,"end":3409.05,"text":"使用跟販賣呢"},{"start":3409.05,"end":3411.05,"text":"這裡邊的罰款也在提升"},{"start":3411.05,"end":3413.05,"text":"這個從三萬到十萬塊"},{"start":3413.05,"end":3415.05,"text":"我覺得目前來說"},{"start":3415.05,"end":3417.05,"text":"學生不怕性命"},{"start":3417.05,"end":3419.05,"text":"少年事件處理法未滿十四歲"},{"start":3419.05,"end":3421.05,"text":"不罰而且很多七八九年級的學生"},{"start":3421.05,"end":3423.05,"text":"還沒有到十四歲的時候"},{"start":3423.05,"end":3425.05,"text":"完全罰不到所以很多人"},{"start":3425.05,"end":3427.05,"text":"就利用這樣的一個點"},{"start":3427.05,"end":3429.05,"text":"還有一個很嚴重的部分我們看下一頁"},{"start":3429.59,"end":3431.59,"text":"你看施用毒跟環境毒"},{"start":3431.59,"end":3433.59,"text":"很多時候家長吸毒"},{"start":3433.59,"end":3435.59,"text":"交保之後沒事"},{"start":3435.59,"end":3437.59,"text":"但是呢他施用毒品的話"},{"start":3437.59,"end":3439.59,"text":"每兩週要驗尿"},{"start":3439.59,"end":3441.59,"text":"為期三個月有時候是六個月"},{"start":3441.59,"end":3443.59,"text":"孩子生在這個地方"},{"start":3443.59,"end":3445.59,"text":"父母親吸毒孩子沒有"},{"start":3445.59,"end":3447.59,"text":"可是呢他是因為"},{"start":3447.59,"end":3449.59,"text":"處在環境毒當中"},{"start":3449.59,"end":3451.59,"text":"孩子告訴我他進學校"},{"start":3451.59,"end":3453.59,"text":"看到老師就說老師我知道"},{"start":3453.59,"end":3455.59,"text":"你要對我做什麼他就是做這種事"},{"start":3455.59,"end":3457.59,"text":"那個沒吸毒但是生產在"},{"start":3457.59,"end":3459.59,"text":"吸毒家庭裡的孩子裡面"},{"start":3459.59,"end":3461.59,"text":"每兩週驗尿為期三個月"},{"start":3461.59,"end":3463.59,"text":"有時候六個月對孩子來說"},{"start":3463.59,"end":3465.59,"text":"真的是何等的一個痛苦"},{"start":3465.59,"end":3467.59,"text":"很多老師說他每次看到那個孩子"},{"start":3467.59,"end":3469.59,"text":"也很無辜不過他是一個環境毒"},{"start":3469.59,"end":3471.59,"text":"就你們使用的方法完全"},{"start":3471.59,"end":3473.59,"text":"一樣你不覺得這應該做一些區隔嗎"},{"start":3473.59,"end":3475.59,"text":"各位報告我們現在目前在校園"},{"start":3475.59,"end":3477.59,"text":"裡面的這個篩檢"},{"start":3477.59,"end":3479.59,"text":"基本上並不是普篩"},{"start":3479.59,"end":3481.59,"text":"而是對有一些"},{"start":3481.59,"end":3483.59,"text":"我現在在講施用毒跟環境毒"},{"start":3483.59,"end":3485.59,"text":"部長看清楚我說這個"},{"start":3485.59,"end":3487.59,"text":"這個不是普篩是對於"},{"start":3487.59,"end":3489.59,"text":"家長兩個家長在"},{"start":3489.59,"end":3491.59,"text":"吸毒的孩子他沒有"},{"start":3491.59,"end":3493.59,"text":"可是他生長在毒的環境"},{"start":3493.59,"end":3495.59,"text":"當中他被要求"},{"start":3495.59,"end":3497.59,"text":"做這個篩檢的部分跟他的"},{"start":3497.59,"end":3499.59,"text":"施用毒是一模一樣的"},{"start":3499.59,"end":3501.59,"text":"我只是在說"},{"start":3501.59,"end":3503.59,"text":"對於老師跟學生來說"},{"start":3503.59,"end":3505.59,"text":"這些都需要更彈性的做法"},{"start":3505.59,"end":3507.59,"text":"好不好"},{"start":3507.59,"end":3509.59,"text":"讓學生也不會覺得他受到傷害"},{"start":3509.59,"end":3511.59,"text":"當然是他都已經是"},{"start":3511.59,"end":3513.59,"text":"這就是我們學校教育在這個"},{"start":3513.59,"end":3515.59,"text":"這裡面一個很重要的一個"},{"start":3515.59,"end":3517.59,"text":"所以你就需要做一些更彈性的改變"},{"start":3517.59,"end":3519.59,"text":"否則兩個老師"},{"start":3519.59,"end":3521.59,"text":"跟學生對望彼此都知道做什麼"},{"start":3521.59,"end":3523.59,"text":"因為他們要符合你們這樣的一個"},{"start":3523.59,"end":3525.59,"text":"實施的流程這對小孩子來說"},{"start":3525.59,"end":3527.59,"text":"是一個很大的夢魘這是"},{"start":3527.59,"end":3529.59,"text":"我聽到的非常多學校裡面"},{"start":3529.59,"end":3531.59,"text":"所反映出來的而且目前來說"},{"start":3531.59,"end":3533.59,"text":"為了恢復人權跟校園安全"},{"start":3533.59,"end":3535.59,"text":"不准搜書包不准學生人身"},{"start":3535.59,"end":3537.59,"text":"有些時候躲在廁所裡面在"},{"start":3537.59,"end":3539.59,"text":"吸毒很多時候老師真的是"},{"start":3539.59,"end":3541.59,"text":"沒有辦法去管那這個部分"},{"start":3541.59,"end":3543.59,"text":"你們又牽涉到非常多的一個問題"},{"start":3543.59,"end":3545.59,"text":"所以我只能說最後"},{"start":3545.59,"end":3547.59,"text":"時間到了的話我還是要講"},{"start":3547.59,"end":3549.59,"text":"很多時候留給校園裡面"},{"start":3549.59,"end":3551.59,"text":"因為我們要防毒"},{"start":3551.59,"end":3553.59,"text":"但是你看目前所"},{"start":3553.59,"end":3555.59,"text":"停留下來的問題裡面"},{"start":3555.59,"end":3557.59,"text":"透過校安人力流動率很高"},{"start":3557.59,"end":3559.59,"text":"經驗沒有辦法傳承"},{"start":3559.59,"end":3561.59,"text":"而且我們現在所使用的校安人力"},{"start":3561.59,"end":3563.59,"text":"他的行政速度又很多"},{"start":3563.59,"end":3565.59,"text":"即使是有很多退休的一些教官"},{"start":3565.59,"end":3567.59,"text":"但是他本身也很難"},{"start":3567.59,"end":3569.59,"text":"在這個地方能夠施展他的"},{"start":3569.59,"end":3571.59,"text":"專業而且你缺乏強制性"},{"start":3571.59,"end":3573.59,"text":"跟搜查權對主要是"},{"start":3573.59,"end":3575.59,"text":"你跨局處的鍛煉"},{"start":3575.59,"end":3577.59,"text":"學校常常成為孤立無援"},{"start":3577.59,"end":3579.59,"text":"的守門人所以部長你今天"},{"start":3579.59,"end":3581.59,"text":"站這邊我說實在的我覺得"},{"start":3581.59,"end":3583.59,"text":"教育部某種程度也蠻無力的"},{"start":3583.59,"end":3585.59,"text":"因為這個部分由教育部來當"},{"start":3585.59,"end":3587.59,"text":"第一線你沒有缺乏"},{"start":3587.59,"end":3589.59,"text":"很大的使用權然後"},{"start":3589.59,"end":3591.59,"text":"讓這個部分裡面我們就必須在這邊"},{"start":3591.59,"end":3593.59,"text":"指引你這個東西我也覺得"},{"start":3593.59,"end":3595.59,"text":"要提出一個跨部會"},{"start":3595.59,"end":3597.59,"text":"能夠真正來防堵這件事情"},{"start":3597.59,"end":3599.59,"text":"的方法還有很重要的"},{"start":3599.59,"end":3601.59,"text":"部長 急要給人啦"},{"start":3601.59,"end":3603.59,"text":"現在這就是我訪查"},{"start":3603.59,"end":3605.59,"text":"第一層的老師"},{"start":3605.59,"end":3607.59,"text":"你們給人家叫人家宣導"},{"start":3607.59,"end":3609.59,"text":"很多時候呢"},{"start":3609.59,"end":3611.59,"text":"生教組長都在詢問什麼時候可以拿到錢"},{"start":3611.59,"end":3613.59,"text":"這是有關於毒的部分"},{"start":3613.59,"end":3615.59,"text":"電子煙的部分裡面也是"},{"start":3615.59,"end":3617.59,"text":"很多志工遲遲領不到錢"},{"start":3617.59,"end":3619.59,"text":"都是第一線的聲音麻煩部長"},{"start":3619.59,"end":3621.59,"text":"能夠把流程發放快一點好不好"},{"start":3621.59,"end":3623.59,"text":"我們這個錢"},{"start":3623.59,"end":3625.59,"text":"事實上都已經消耗到地方"},{"start":3625.59,"end":3627.59,"text":"如果還沒有發放我們"},{"start":3627.59,"end":3629.59,"text":"來瞭解看到底怎麼樣"},{"start":3629.59,"end":3631.59,"text":"那就是地方的問題"},{"start":3631.59,"end":3633.59,"text":"我們就來問地方政府的問題"},{"start":3633.59,"end":3635.59,"text":"剩下的這個部分裡面我還是期望"},{"start":3635.59,"end":3637.59,"text":"能夠好好的盤點"},{"start":3637.59,"end":3639.59,"text":"建立高風險而上的追蹤機制"},{"start":3639.59,"end":3641.59,"text":"這才是你剛剛說的"},{"start":3641.59,"end":3643.59,"text":"Social support"},{"start":3643.59,"end":3645.59,"text":"我們現在其實是從這樣一個方向"},{"start":3645.59,"end":3647.59,"text":"沒有效果嗎"},{"start":3647.59,"end":3649.59,"text":"效益上我們怎麼樣來提升"},{"start":3649.59,"end":3651.59,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":3651.59,"end":3653.59,"text":"這些都是請教育部好好跟相關單位"},{"start":3653.59,"end":3655.59,"text":"跨部回來做一個鏈接"},{"start":3655.59,"end":3657.59,"text":"否則的話光是靠教育部"},{"start":3657.59,"end":3659.59,"text":"只停留在媒體試圖跟這個所謂宣傳"},{"start":3659.59,"end":3661.59,"text":"那是不好的好不好謝謝"},{"start":3665.59,"end":3667.59,"text":"謝謝柯政委員"},{"start":3667.59,"end":3669.59,"text":"接下來請陳秀寶委員諮詢"},{"start":3677.4,"end":3679.4,"text":"謝謝主席請教育部政部長"},{"start":3680.29,"end":3682.29,"text":"請部長"},{"start":3687.27,"end":3689.27,"text":"委員好"},{"start":3688.22,"end":3690.22,"text":"部長好在關心校園毒品防治之前"},{"start":3690.22,"end":3694.22,"text":"本席這邊先跟部長來討論一下"},{"start":3694.22,"end":3698.22,"text":"關於私校這個行政管理這個部分"},{"start":3698.22,"end":3700.22,"text":"世新大學這個校務爭議"},{"start":3700.22,"end":3702.22,"text":"本席已經有追蹤很多年"},{"start":3702.22,"end":3704.22,"text":"他們從好幾年前從操場"},{"start":3704.22,"end":3706.22,"text":"畫設停車格"},{"start":3706.22,"end":3708.22,"text":"或是性別研究所停招"},{"start":3708.22,"end":3710.22,"text":"到近期各系辦"},{"start":3710.22,"end":3712.22,"text":"整併成為聯合院辦"},{"start":3712.22,"end":3714.22,"text":"那研發學生反應說行政"},{"start":3714.22,"end":3716.22,"text":"這個行政服務效率下降"},{"start":3716.22,"end":3718.22,"text":"那課程所需要的軟體及教學資源不足"},{"start":3718.22,"end":3720.22,"text":"圖書館甚至是設置KTV及電玩設備"},{"start":3720.22,"end":3722.22,"text":"那最近還傳出職員"},{"start":3722.22,"end":3724.22,"text":"因為組織調整遭到減薪這個整整問題"},{"start":3724.22,"end":3726.22,"text":"其實世新大學的這個"},{"start":3726.22,"end":3728.22,"text":"這個校務"},{"start":3728.22,"end":3730.22,"text":"引發很多的爭議"},{"start":3730.22,"end":3732.22,"text":"師生也都非常質疑說"},{"start":3732.22,"end":3734.22,"text":"到底為什麼學校會這樣子做"},{"start":3734.22,"end":3736.22,"text":"那近日世新大學又在台北小地區"},{"start":3736.22,"end":3738.22,"text":"舉辦這個70週年"},{"start":3738.22,"end":3740.22,"text":"小慶"},{"start":3740.22,"end":3742.22,"text":"並且安排那個校友"},{"start":3742.22,"end":3744.22,"text":"可以參加這個百萬現金的抽票"},{"start":3744.22,"end":3746.22,"text":"這個也引起了很大的爭議"},{"start":3746.22,"end":3748.22,"text":"那針對世新大學"},{"start":3748.22,"end":3750.22,"text":"接連的發生這些相關的爭議"},{"start":3750.22,"end":3752.22,"text":"其實教育部裡面有在10月20號"},{"start":3752.22,"end":3754.22,"text":"有組成一個專案小組到學校來訪視"},{"start":3754.22,"end":3756.22,"text":"那這邊"},{"start":3756.22,"end":3758.22,"text":"本席想請教部長"},{"start":3758.22,"end":3760.22,"text":"經過這次的訪視教育部有沒有對於世新大學"},{"start":3760.22,"end":3762.22,"text":"目前這個校務治理的方面"},{"start":3762.22,"end":3764.22,"text":"有更進一步的掌握"},{"start":3764.22,"end":3766.22,"text":"包括系辦整併"},{"start":3766.22,"end":3768.22,"text":"系辦整併之後"},{"start":3768.22,"end":3770.22,"text":"他們的行政服務"},{"start":3770.22,"end":3772.22,"text":"教學資源的配置"},{"start":3772.22,"end":3774.22,"text":"以及資源的權益等等"},{"start":3774.22,"end":3776.22,"text":"教育部有沒有去確認"},{"start":3776.22,"end":3778.22,"text":"這些相關的措施是不是有影響到"},{"start":3778.22,"end":3780.22,"text":"學生受教的權益"},{"start":3780.22,"end":3782.22,"text":"甚至說有沒有違反相關法規的情形"},{"start":3784.76,"end":3786.76,"text":"我想謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":3786.76,"end":3788.76,"text":"確實世新大學這個校務經營"},{"start":3788.76,"end":3790.76,"text":"裡面我常常在"},{"start":3790.76,"end":3792.76,"text":"跟大學校長分享"},{"start":3792.76,"end":3794.76,"text":"你在許多校務經營"},{"start":3794.76,"end":3796.76,"text":"治理的一個創新"},{"start":3796.76,"end":3798.76,"text":"但是不要忘掉一定要確保"},{"start":3798.76,"end":3800.76,"text":"教學研究教服務的"},{"start":3800.76,"end":3802.76,"text":"教育品質是提升的"},{"start":3802.76,"end":3804.76,"text":"對學生的受教權益是能夠"},{"start":3804.76,"end":3806.76,"text":"確保的"},{"start":3806.76,"end":3808.76,"text":"那我想他們確實最近有一些爭議"},{"start":3808.76,"end":3810.76,"text":"那高教師也組了一個"},{"start":3810.76,"end":3812.76,"text":"小組去學校去訪視"},{"start":3812.76,"end":3814.76,"text":"那是不是請"},{"start":3814.76,"end":3816.76,"text":"市長來做普通說明"},{"start":3816.76,"end":3818.76,"text":"委員好"},{"start":3818.76,"end":3820.76,"text":"那我們10月20號的專案小組到校之後"},{"start":3820.76,"end":3822.76,"text":"不是只有針對行政部門"},{"start":3822.76,"end":3824.76,"text":"的一些討論"},{"start":3824.76,"end":3826.76,"text":"我們也跟學生進行座談"},{"start":3826.76,"end":3828.76,"text":"那學生指出四個主要的訴求"},{"start":3828.76,"end":3830.76,"text":"主要還是學校在實施"},{"start":3830.76,"end":3832.76,"text":"這個新的制度的時候"},{"start":3832.76,"end":3834.76,"text":"沒有跟學生做充分的溝通"},{"start":3834.76,"end":3836.76,"text":"那部裡頭也認為這一點是重大的"},{"start":3836.76,"end":3838.76,"text":"疏失"},{"start":3838.76,"end":3840.76,"text":"因為相關的行政措施如果學校"},{"start":3840.76,"end":3842.76,"text":"不進行改革部裡頭是站在"},{"start":3842.76,"end":3844.76,"text":"尊重的立場但是如果沒有"},{"start":3844.76,"end":3846.76,"text":"完善相關的溝通程序"},{"start":3846.76,"end":3848.76,"text":"部裡頭認為是重大的瑕疵"},{"start":3848.76,"end":3850.76,"text":"所以部裡頭也請學校"},{"start":3850.76,"end":3852.76,"text":"責成學校要回應"},{"start":3852.76,"end":3854.76,"text":"具體回應學生的訴求"},{"start":3854.76,"end":3856.76,"text":"那必要時如果說這個制度"},{"start":3856.76,"end":3858.76,"text":"確實造成學生學習權益的"},{"start":3858.76,"end":3860.76,"text":"損失的話我們"},{"start":3860.76,"end":3862.76,"text":"會要求學校可能要"},{"start":3862.76,"end":3864.76,"text":"好謝謝市長"},{"start":3864.76,"end":3866.76,"text":"那您的回答表示說"},{"start":3866.76,"end":3868.76,"text":"我們現在組成的這個專案小組"},{"start":3868.76,"end":3870.76,"text":"對世新大學目前的狀況"},{"start":3870.76,"end":3872.76,"text":"是有掌握說他們現在"},{"start":3872.76,"end":3874.76,"text":"不管是學校的部分或是"},{"start":3874.76,"end":3876.76,"text":"學生所表達的部分"},{"start":3876.76,"end":3878.76,"text":"那我想請教部長"},{"start":3878.76,"end":3880.76,"text":"像世新大學這樣長期不斷的出現"},{"start":3880.76,"end":3882.76,"text":"有校務爭議的這樣的私立大學"},{"start":3882.76,"end":3884.76,"text":"我們教育部除了說"},{"start":3884.76,"end":3886.76,"text":"要求學校說明除了我們可以"},{"start":3886.76,"end":3888.76,"text":"到校訪視之外我們還有什麼比較"},{"start":3888.76,"end":3890.76,"text":"具體的監督及改善的機制"},{"start":3890.76,"end":3892.76,"text":"尤其當學校像這樣子"},{"start":3892.76,"end":3894.76,"text":"行政的這個決策"},{"start":3894.76,"end":3896.76,"text":"持續引起學生跟"},{"start":3896.76,"end":3898.76,"text":"老師的反彈甚至也會影響到"},{"start":3898.76,"end":3900.76,"text":"正常教學的這個運作的時候"},{"start":3900.76,"end":3902.76,"text":"我們教育部能不能"},{"start":3902.76,"end":3904.76,"text":"請學校要求學校提出"},{"start":3904.76,"end":3906.76,"text":"更具體的改善的計畫"},{"start":3906.76,"end":3908.76,"text":"訂定改善的這個時程期限"},{"start":3908.76,"end":3910.76,"text":"並且有定期追蹤的這個機制呢"},{"start":3910.76,"end":3912.76,"text":"謝謝委員這個"},{"start":3912.76,"end":3914.76,"text":"指正確實我們教育部是會做這樣"},{"start":3914.76,"end":3916.76,"text":"包括我們把訪視的一個結果"},{"start":3916.76,"end":3918.76,"text":"然後要折成學校"},{"start":3918.76,"end":3920.76,"text":"這個限期改善"},{"start":3920.76,"end":3922.76,"text":"那如果他還沒有改善我們"},{"start":3922.76,"end":3924.76,"text":"事實上還有第二個一個"},{"start":3924.76,"end":3926.76,"text":"手段就是說行政公權力的建議"},{"start":3926.76,"end":3928.76,"text":"就是減少這個"},{"start":3928.76,"end":3930.76,"text":"是講補助的部分嗎"},{"start":3930.76,"end":3932.76,"text":"減少這個私教強補助"},{"start":3932.76,"end":3934.76,"text":"還有另外招生名額我們也會扣減"},{"start":3934.76,"end":3936.76,"text":"就事情節的一個"},{"start":3936.76,"end":3938.76,"text":"研究程度會有不同的"},{"start":3938.76,"end":3940.76,"text":"這個補助的金額"},{"start":3940.76,"end":3942.76,"text":"的一個扣減跟這個"},{"start":3942.76,"end":3944.76,"text":"扣減這個招生名額"},{"start":3944.76,"end":3946.76,"text":"謝謝部長的回答喔"},{"start":3946.76,"end":3948.76,"text":"本席這邊想要強調就是說大學自治固然"},{"start":3948.76,"end":3950.76,"text":"重要因為他是私立大學"},{"start":3950.76,"end":3952.76,"text":"但是不代表學校就可以忽略師生的意見"},{"start":3952.76,"end":3954.76,"text":"也不能讓學生的受教權以及"},{"start":3954.76,"end":3956.76,"text":"教職員的權益受到影響喔"},{"start":3956.76,"end":3958.76,"text":"那針對這一次的訪視"},{"start":3958.76,"end":3960.76,"text":"跟這次世新大學"},{"start":3960.76,"end":3962.76,"text":"這樣子的學校的這個問題"},{"start":3962.76,"end":3964.76,"text":"我希望說教育部你們也做了一個參考"},{"start":3964.76,"end":3966.76,"text":"就是說以後有比較明確的"},{"start":3966.76,"end":3968.76,"text":"對於這樣子的爭議"},{"start":3968.76,"end":3970.76,"text":"有個明確的處理的方向"},{"start":3970.76,"end":3972.76,"text":"而且應該要建立起持續追蹤及改善機制"},{"start":3972.76,"end":3974.76,"text":"確保這個大學"},{"start":3974.76,"end":3976.76,"text":"他在享有大學自治的同時"},{"start":3976.76,"end":3978.76,"text":"他其實要落實他們自己"},{"start":3978.76,"end":3980.76,"text":"項目這裡的責任喔"},{"start":3980.76,"end":3982.76,"text":"而且應該要把學生的這個權益放在第一位"},{"start":3982.76,"end":3984.76,"text":"這個部分請你們後續要追蹤喔"},{"start":3984.76,"end":3986.76,"text":"謝謝委員指示"},{"start":3986.76,"end":3988.76,"text":"接下來要進入我們今天的主題喔"},{"start":3988.76,"end":3990.76,"text":"就是這個校園毒品的防治"},{"start":3990.76,"end":3992.76,"text":"我們為了防止"},{"start":3992.76,"end":3994.76,"text":"防治毒品進入校園"},{"start":3994.76,"end":3996.76,"text":"教育部這邊你們有規劃新增"},{"start":3996.76,"end":3998.76,"text":"拖曳快篩作為校園毒品篩檢的工具喔"},{"start":3998.76,"end":4000.76,"text":"那也採購了八千劑"},{"start":4000.76,"end":4002.76,"text":"希望說提供給學校"},{"start":4002.76,"end":4004.76,"text":"第一線人員有更便利的檢測的方式喔"},{"start":4004.76,"end":4006.76,"text":"那目前我們在"},{"start":4006.76,"end":4008.76,"text":"在這個學校的學校"},{"start":4008.76,"end":4010.76,"text":"在審議"},{"start":4010.76,"end":4012.76,"text":"但是我們相關的這些"},{"start":4012.76,"end":4014.76,"text":"篩劑的使用方式"},{"start":4014.76,"end":4016.76,"text":"使用方法及配套措施"},{"start":4016.76,"end":4018.76,"text":"我們是不是應該在修法完成之前"},{"start":4018.76,"end":4020.76,"text":"就跟地方政府以及學校"},{"start":4020.76,"end":4022.76,"text":"先充分的溝通"},{"start":4022.76,"end":4024.76,"text":"那讓現場喔"},{"start":4024.76,"end":4026.76,"text":"教學現場的人員有足夠的時間"},{"start":4026.76,"end":4028.76,"text":"的準備並且了解相關的"},{"start":4028.76,"end":4030.76,"text":"實際以及使用的方式"},{"start":4030.76,"end":4032.76,"text":"這個你們有在做了嗎"},{"start":4032.76,"end":4034.76,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":4034.76,"end":4036.76,"text":"確實我們在這一個學期內"},{"start":4036.76,"end":4038.76,"text":"已經有儲備了"},{"start":4038.76,"end":4040.76,"text":"培訓了一百"},{"start":4040.76,"end":4042.76,"text":"將近兩百位的這些種子老師"},{"start":4042.76,"end":4044.76,"text":"怎麼樣去篩檢怎麼樣"},{"start":4044.76,"end":4046.76,"text":"等等的這些程序"},{"start":4046.76,"end":4048.76,"text":"種子人員這個是一部分"},{"start":4048.76,"end":4050.76,"text":"但是我比較想知道就是說"},{"start":4050.76,"end":4052.76,"text":"所以相關的質疑你們"},{"start":4052.76,"end":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雙導師制"},{"start":5046,"end":5048,"text":"雙導師制我們當然可以來研究"},{"start":5048,"end":5050,"text":"我們已經"},{"start":5050,"end":5052,"text":"教師荒了"},{"start":5052,"end":5054,"text":"如果再繼續教師荒"},{"start":5054,"end":5056,"text":"你要直接來研議"},{"start":5056,"end":5058,"text":"雙導師呢"},{"start":5058,"end":5060,"text":"這句話我給你一個讚"},{"start":5060,"end":5062,"text":"教師事實"},{"start":5062,"end":5064,"text":"但是以我們現在數據"},{"start":5064,"end":5066,"text":"我是希望我們讓數據"},{"start":5066,"end":5068,"text":"講話"},{"start":5068,"end":5070,"text":"所以數據講話就是什麼"},{"start":5070,"end":5072,"text":"我在這邊跟委員報告"},{"start":5072,"end":5074,"text":"台北市國小戴儀老師"},{"start":5074,"end":5076,"text":"10%而已"},{"start":5076.11,"end":5078.11,"text":"台中是18.5%"},{"start":5078.11,"end":5080.11,"text":"您要不要看這10%超中點"},{"start":5080.11,"end":5082.11,"text":"超到什麼程度"},{"start":5082.11,"end":5084.11,"text":"您給他們多少薪水要不要看清楚"},{"start":5084.11,"end":5086.11,"text":"這個教師真的夠嗎"},{"start":5086.11,"end":5088.11,"text":"我同意委員所關心的"},{"start":5088.11,"end":5090.11,"text":"這10%的代理教師"},{"start":5090.11,"end":5092.11,"text":"真的就可以處理我們缺老師的問題嗎"},{"start":5092.11,"end":5094.11,"text":"有些小型學校他確實"},{"start":5094.11,"end":5096.11,"text":"在特定類科是不行"},{"start":5096.11,"end":5098.11,"text":"但是不能"},{"start":5099.15,"end":5101.15,"text":"沒關係你剛剛已經說出真話了"},{"start":5101.15,"end":5103.15,"text":"我們很珍惜"},{"start":5103.15,"end":5105.15,"text":"但是沒關係"},{"start":5105.15,"end":5107.15,"text":"所以我們要講的就是"},{"start":5107.15,"end":5109.15,"text":"這個政策就是脫離現實"},{"start":5109.15,"end":5111.15,"text":"雙導師就是脫離現實"},{"start":5111.15,"end":5113.15,"text":"你說要數字我們看數字"},{"start":5113.15,"end":5115.15,"text":"提出這個想法的人"},{"start":5115.15,"end":5117.15,"text":"三年來只來教文委員會兩次質詢"},{"start":5117.15,"end":5119.15,"text":"這個人提出的政策"},{"start":5119.15,"end":5121.15,"text":"我們根本就不應該考慮"},{"start":5121.15,"end":5123.15,"text":"所以回來解決教師"},{"start":5123.15,"end":5125.15,"text":"極度疲勞的問題"},{"start":5125.15,"end":5127.15,"text":"所以教育部有沒有開始統計盤點"},{"start":5127.15,"end":5129.15,"text":"超中點還有跨領域"},{"start":5129.15,"end":5131.15,"text":"什麼叫跨領域"},{"start":5131.15,"end":5133.15,"text":"跨領域本來是很好聽"},{"start":5133.15,"end":5135.15,"text":"這個跨領域我不是數學的老師"},{"start":5135.15,"end":5137.15,"text":"我是教國文的我可能得要去扛數學的課"},{"start":5139.15,"end":5141.15,"text":"這個跨非專長領域"},{"start":5141.15,"end":5143.15,"text":"還有年級配課的情況"},{"start":5143.15,"end":5145.15,"text":"你們有沒有什麼時候"},{"start":5145.15,"end":5147.15,"text":"有沒有開始盤點什麼時候可以提供給大眾"},{"start":5149.64,"end":5151.64,"text":"跟各位委員報告"},{"start":5151.64,"end":5153.64,"text":"這樣的一個盤點高中階段"},{"start":5153.64,"end":5155.64,"text":"大概是五點八節"},{"start":5155.64,"end":5157.64,"text":"國中小階段"},{"start":5157.64,"end":5159.64,"text":"會跟各縣市一起來盤點"},{"start":5159.64,"end":5161.64,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5161.64,"end":5163.64,"text":"一個月內提供相關資訊給我好不好"},{"start":5163.64,"end":5165.64,"text":"剛剛部長手上看起來"},{"start":5165.64,"end":5167.64,"text":"資料是我沒有的也盡快提供"},{"start":5167.64,"end":5169.64,"text":"還有一個議題"},{"start":5169.64,"end":5171.64,"text":"我還是要追著問"},{"start":5171.64,"end":5173.64,"text":"接下來教育部長討論接下來"},{"start":5173.64,"end":5175.64,"text":"要推行校園毒品快篩"},{"start":5175.64,"end":5177.64,"text":"納入脫篩的政策"},{"start":5177.64,"end":5179.64,"text":"在這次繼續教育部公布現行的這個"},{"start":5179.64,"end":5181.64,"text":"最重要點"},{"start":5181.64,"end":5183.64,"text":"目前的毒品藥液快篩的實施對象"},{"start":5183.64,"end":5185.64,"text":"是針對五類特定人員"},{"start":5185.64,"end":5187.64,"text":"根據教育部發的新聞稿"},{"start":5187.64,"end":5189.64,"text":"原則上修法以後"},{"start":5189.64,"end":5191.64,"text":"未來納入毒品"},{"start":5191.64,"end":5193.64,"text":"脫一塊篩的篩點對象"},{"start":5193.64,"end":5195.64,"text":"也只會比照尿篩"},{"start":5195.64,"end":5197.64,"text":"同樣是這五類人員不會擴大"},{"start":5197.64,"end":5199.64,"text":"那部長剛剛我們有提到"},{"start":5199.64,"end":5201.64,"text":"就是說"},{"start":5201.64,"end":5203.64,"text":"教育部接下來要推行的"},{"start":5203.64,"end":5205.64,"text":"就是有關校園毒品防治的這個方向"},{"start":5205.64,"end":5207.64,"text":"那本席也要再請教部長"},{"start":5207.64,"end":5209.64,"text":"有人啊"},{"start":5209.64,"end":5211.64,"text":"又說在校園實施毒品快篩"},{"start":5211.64,"end":5213.64,"text":"是一件噁爛的事情"},{"start":5213.64,"end":5215.64,"text":"還說這個侵犯人權"},{"start":5215.64,"end":5217.64,"text":"具有法律爭議"},{"start":5217.64,"end":5219.64,"text":"請問您認同這樣的一個想法嗎"},{"start":5219.64,"end":5221.64,"text":"我想從教育的觀點我們是"},{"start":5221.64,"end":5223.64,"text":"基於保護學生希望如果他"},{"start":5223.64,"end":5225.64,"text":"不小心有染到能夠早疾"},{"start":5225.64,"end":5227.64,"text":"被發現而且接受"},{"start":5227.64,"end":5229.64,"text":"一些教育或者輔導相關"},{"start":5229.64,"end":5231.64,"text":"的一些協助"},{"start":5231.64,"end":5233.64,"text":"不要沒有答到我的問題啦"},{"start":5233.64,"end":5235.64,"text":"我說有人說這個很噁爛"},{"start":5235.64,"end":5237.64,"text":"有人說侵犯人權你認同這個說法嗎"},{"start":5237.64,"end":5239.64,"text":"民主社會一定有不同的聲音"},{"start":5239.64,"end":5241.64,"text":"我們有一些政策我們有一些制度的一個"},{"start":5241.64,"end":5243.64,"text":"介入當來可以更精細"},{"start":5243.64,"end":5245.64,"text":"你不說認同也不說認同"},{"start":5245.64,"end":5247.64,"text":"就是說尊重他"},{"start":5247.64,"end":5249.64,"text":"他的一個說法讓我們提醒"},{"start":5249.64,"end":5251.64,"text":"怎麼樣去確保學生被"},{"start":5251.64,"end":5253.64,"text":"不要被標籤化又能夠得到教育的一個"},{"start":5253.64,"end":5255.64,"text":"你站中間沒有問題啦"},{"start":5255.64,"end":5257.64,"text":"但是我們還是要持續問啦"},{"start":5257.64,"end":5259.64,"text":"因為這個人"},{"start":5259.64,"end":5261.64,"text":"叫做鋪馬"},{"start":5261.64,"end":5263.64,"text":"這也是我們在立法院的同事"},{"start":5263.64,"end":5265.64,"text":"他在那個時候2014年"},{"start":5265.64,"end":5267.64,"text":"他就說啊新北市要做的這個"},{"start":5267.64,"end":5269.64,"text":"幫他刮號"},{"start":5269.64,"end":5271.64,"text":"尿篩啦就是比"},{"start":5271.64,"end":5273.64,"text":"這個A政策我們也幫他"},{"start":5273.64,"end":5275.64,"text":"刮號毒品非法化"},{"start":5275.64,"end":5277.64,"text":"就要把他抓起來編他說啊"},{"start":5277.64,"end":5279.64,"text":"比這樣的做法是更噁爛尿篩"},{"start":5279.64,"end":5281.64,"text":"是一件噁爛的事情"},{"start":5281.64,"end":5283.64,"text":"那老實說啊這種做法"},{"start":5283.64,"end":5285.64,"text":"你們已經在推啦"},{"start":5285.64,"end":5287.64,"text":"尿篩已經在推啦"},{"start":5287.64,"end":5289.64,"text":"那現在我們又進一步希望能夠"},{"start":5289.64,"end":5291.64,"text":"所以我們來做"},{"start":5291.64,"end":5293.64,"text":"那結果呢最近啊"},{"start":5293.64,"end":5295.64,"text":"不要講說這是2014年啊"},{"start":5295.64,"end":5297.64,"text":"2026年就在這個禮拜"},{"start":5297.64,"end":5299.64,"text":"還是這個月"},{"start":5299.64,"end":5301.64,"text":"他在專訪的時候啊就講了"},{"start":5301.64,"end":5303.64,"text":"說這個不是要用"},{"start":5303.64,"end":5305.64,"text":"而是用問卷的方式"},{"start":5305.64,"end":5307.64,"text":"找出哪些孩子有施用毒品以後"},{"start":5307.64,"end":5309.64,"text":"來做轉介你認同嗎"},{"start":5309.64,"end":5311.64,"text":"他說不是用拖曳啊"},{"start":5311.64,"end":5313.64,"text":"要用問卷問卷可能比拖曳"},{"start":5314.51,"end":5316.51,"text":"更有效"},{"start":5315.92,"end":5317.92,"text":"我想問第一線的部長"},{"start":5317.92,"end":5319.92,"text":"問卷可以問出孩子有沒有"},{"start":5319.92,"end":5321.92,"text":"吸毒嗎"},{"start":5321.92,"end":5323.92,"text":"問卷會比拖曳"},{"start":5323.92,"end":5325.92,"text":"這已經不是什麼言論是有問題喔"},{"start":5325.92,"end":5327.92,"text":"這是對的還是不對的喔"},{"start":5327.92,"end":5329.92,"text":"他說不是用拖曳"},{"start":5329.92,"end":5331.92,"text":"而是用問卷"},{"start":5331.92,"end":5333.92,"text":"您贊成這樣的說法嗎"},{"start":5333.92,"end":5335.92,"text":"我想問卷有它一定的一個效果"},{"start":5335.92,"end":5337.92,"text":"因為在吸毒"},{"start":5337.92,"end":5339.92,"text":"我們沒有說沒效啊"},{"start":5339.92,"end":5341.92,"text":"因為我們目前學校的一個做法"},{"start":5341.92,"end":5343.92,"text":"就是說我們針對那五項"},{"start":5343.92,"end":5345.92,"text":"五項有可能的一個同學"},{"start":5345.92,"end":5347.92,"text":"我們並不是"},{"start":5347.92,"end":5349.92,"text":"我們是做一個"},{"start":5349.92,"end":5351.92,"text":"所以現在有人說不是用拖曳"},{"start":5351.92,"end":5353.92,"text":"有人也可能會說這種快篩"},{"start":5353.92,"end":5355.92,"text":"效應快篩是噁爛的"},{"start":5355.92,"end":5357.92,"text":"您贊成"},{"start":5357.92,"end":5359.92,"text":"用拖篩還是反對"},{"start":5359.92,"end":5361.92,"text":"很明確的講一下好不好"},{"start":5361.92,"end":5363.92,"text":"以我目前來講我們是"},{"start":5363.92,"end":5365.92,"text":"以我目前來講"},{"start":5365.92,"end":5367.92,"text":"我希望"},{"start":5367.92,"end":5369.92,"text":"我們現在這個"},{"start":5369.92,"end":5371.92,"text":"淵海皇室他是因為"},{"start":5371.92,"end":5375.92,"text":"這個拖曳確實是比這個尿篩"},{"start":5375.92,"end":5377.92,"text":"更快速"},{"start":5377.92,"end":5379.92,"text":"而且不會造成困擾"},{"start":5379.92,"end":5381.92,"text":"教育也一次的"},{"start":5381.92,"end":5383.92,"text":"一樣的一個精準"},{"start":5383.92,"end":5385.92,"text":"所以對學校的一個教育"},{"start":5385.92,"end":5387.92,"text":"的角度來看"},{"start":5387.92,"end":5389.92,"text":"它是比較好的相對的一個好的方式"},{"start":5389.92,"end":5391.92,"text":"可能也比問卷好啦"},{"start":5391.92,"end":5393.92,"text":"所以我想各種方法一起共同努力"},{"start":5393.92,"end":5395.92,"text":"畢竟現在"},{"start":5395.92,"end":5397.92,"text":"這個上試驗蛋液拖米紙"},{"start":5397.92,"end":5399.92,"text":"新型態毒品真的是滲透的很嚴重"},{"start":5399.92,"end":5401.92,"text":"本席相信部長絕對不會跟"},{"start":5401.92,"end":5403.92,"text":"這些網路上"},{"start":5403.92,"end":5405.92,"text":"到底是同一個人還是不同一個人"},{"start":5405.92,"end":5407.92,"text":"我們現在有點分不出來了"},{"start":5407.92,"end":5409.92,"text":"這個覺得好像毒品跟藥品的"},{"start":5409.92,"end":5411.92,"text":"英文都是drug所以就"},{"start":5411.92,"end":5413.92,"text":"好像把它混在一起講我相信部長"},{"start":5413.92,"end":5415.92,"text":"也不會認同"},{"start":5415.92,"end":5417.92,"text":"說在校園實施毒品快篩"},{"start":5417.92,"end":5419.92,"text":"的政策"},{"start":5419.92,"end":5421.92,"text":"但是因為他就說校園"},{"start":5421.92,"end":5423.92,"text":"實施毒品快篩的政策是將"},{"start":5423.92,"end":5425.92,"text":"學生犯罪者嫌疑化"},{"start":5425.92,"end":5427.92,"text":"這個噁爛的詞都"},{"start":5427.92,"end":5429.92,"text":"出來了如果部長確認"},{"start":5429.92,"end":5431.92,"text":"校園毒品"},{"start":5431.92,"end":5433.92,"text":"篩檢納入拓篩"},{"start":5433.92,"end":5435.92,"text":"是要推行的方式"},{"start":5435.92,"end":5437.92,"text":"而沒有要採納這位"},{"start":5437.92,"end":5439.92,"text":"沈柏楊候選人所提出的問題"},{"start":5439.92,"end":5441.92,"text":"一大堆這種"},{"start":5441.92,"end":5443.92,"text":"又要找警察要上課"},{"start":5443.92,"end":5445.92,"text":"這方法如果有用早就有用了啦"},{"start":5445.92,"end":5447.92,"text":"那就麻煩教育部會同"},{"start":5447.92,"end":5449.92,"text":"法務部一同加速"},{"start":5449.92,"end":5451.92,"text":"修法推動修法"},{"start":5451.92,"end":5453.92,"text":"因為拓篩現在法院還是沒有"},{"start":5453.92,"end":5455.92,"text":"對不對那相信立法院"},{"start":5455.92,"end":5457.92,"text":"立法院裡面請委員如果支持"},{"start":5457.92,"end":5459.92,"text":"好不好趕快提出來可以嗎"},{"start":5459.92,"end":5461.92,"text":"已經在立法院了請委員"},{"start":5461.92,"end":5463.92,"text":"也到時候沈柏楊候選人可以"},{"start":5463.92,"end":5465.92,"text":"支持謝謝部長謝謝主席"},{"start":5466.62,"end":5468.62,"text":"謝謝葛國瑜主任委員"},{"start":5468.62,"end":5470.62,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":5470.23,"end":5472.23,"text":"接下來請郭育勤委員發言"},{"start":5481.97,"end":5483.97,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":5483.97,"end":5485.97,"text":"那麼有請教育部部長"},{"start":5485.97,"end":5487.97,"text":"有請教育部部長"},{"start":5492.28,"end":5494.28,"text":"部員好"},{"start":5494.31,"end":5496.31,"text":"好"},{"start":5496.31,"end":5498.31,"text":"剛剛其實有聽到葛國瑜主任委員"},{"start":5498.31,"end":5500.31,"text":"針對沈柏楊委員在2014年"},{"start":5500.31,"end":5502.31,"text":"那他所說的"},{"start":5502.31,"end":5504.31,"text":"我想這個去脈絡化的"},{"start":5504.31,"end":5506.31,"text":"又把這個質詢的場合"},{"start":5506.31,"end":5508.31,"text":"當成這個沒有問過"},{"start":5508.31,"end":5510.31,"text":"當事人的說法"},{"start":5510.31,"end":5512.31,"text":"我想沈柏楊委員現在目前"},{"start":5512.31,"end":5514.31,"text":"就在中興的辦公室二樓"},{"start":5514.31,"end":5516.31,"text":"那他說的2014年"},{"start":5516.31,"end":5518.31,"text":"反對的是以全面"},{"start":5518.31,"end":5520.31,"text":"驗尿標籤化學生"},{"start":5520.31,"end":5522.31,"text":"將司法"},{"start":5522.31,"end":5524.31,"text":"刑罰以及排除機制"},{"start":5524.31,"end":5526.31,"text":"提早帶入校園的"},{"start":5526.31,"end":5528.31,"text":"做法認為這樣單靠"},{"start":5528.31,"end":5530.31,"text":"懲罰而缺乏輔導機制"},{"start":5530.31,"end":5532.31,"text":"這樣子可能會把學生"},{"start":5532.31,"end":5534.31,"text":"推到邊緣他的說法"},{"start":5534.31,"end":5536.31,"text":"是這樣喔那我想"},{"start":5536.31,"end":5538.31,"text":"他們只針對這個兩個字叫"},{"start":5538.31,"end":5540.31,"text":"噁爛喔那不斷的在"},{"start":5540.31,"end":5542.31,"text":"大作文章我想大可不必"},{"start":5542.31,"end":5544.31,"text":"因為在任何的場合當中"},{"start":5544.31,"end":5546.31,"text":"其實沈柏楊都已經有提出"},{"start":5546.31,"end":5548.31,"text":"他的說法那現在他本人"},{"start":5548.31,"end":5550.31,"text":"就在中興的辦公室的"},{"start":5550.31,"end":5552.31,"text":"二樓那也歡迎這個在野堂"},{"start":5552.31,"end":5554.31,"text":"委員有任何的問題其實可以"},{"start":5554.31,"end":5556.31,"text":"去找他喔是的謝謝"},{"start":5556.31,"end":5558.31,"text":"委員提醒我們確實也不是"},{"start":5558.31,"end":5560.31,"text":"並不是普篩我們是對"},{"start":5560.31,"end":5562.31,"text":"特定的學生從教育的觀點"},{"start":5562.31,"end":5564.31,"text":"來協助他那是12年前的"},{"start":5564.31,"end":5566.31,"text":"事情12年前的一篇"},{"start":5566.31,"end":5568.31,"text":"文章講的原意也不是"},{"start":5568.31,"end":5570.31,"text":"他們所扭曲的這樣"},{"start":5570.31,"end":5572.31,"text":"那我想呢又占用"},{"start":5572.31,"end":5574.31,"text":"我的一些時間來做這樣子的一個"},{"start":5574.31,"end":5576.31,"text":"說明喔好那我想呢"},{"start":5576.31,"end":5578.31,"text":"部長好我們今天要談"},{"start":5578.31,"end":5580.31,"text":"就是校園毒品的防治"},{"start":5580.31,"end":5582.31,"text":"那麼根據這個教育部的一個"},{"start":5582.31,"end":5584.31,"text":"統計的一個資料喔那麼"},{"start":5584.31,"end":5586.31,"text":"目前其實學生濫用藥物的通報"},{"start":5586.31,"end":5588.31,"text":"的人數從111年"},{"start":5588.31,"end":5590.31,"text":"一直到114年喔"},{"start":5590.31,"end":5592.31,"text":"那包含111年的"},{"start":5592.31,"end":5594.31,"text":"這個400人增加到"},{"start":5594.31,"end":5596.31,"text":"114年的648人"},{"start":5596.31,"end":5598.31,"text":"那當然這個增加的人數"},{"start":5598.31,"end":5600.31,"text":"是超過了六成"},{"start":5600.31,"end":5602.31,"text":"那麼喔當然這個"},{"start":5602.31,"end":5604.31,"text":"通報的增加喔不一定"},{"start":5604.31,"end":5606.31,"text":"是代表我們的防治失敗"},{"start":5606.31,"end":5608.31,"text":"但是呢也有可能是我們"},{"start":5608.31,"end":5610.31,"text":"發現的能力有提升"},{"start":5610.31,"end":5612.31,"text":"所以這個數字是會往上的喔"},{"start":5612.31,"end":5614.31,"text":"那但是其實我覺得我們"},{"start":5614.31,"end":5616.31,"text":"應該要更加的關心是"},{"start":5616.31,"end":5618.31,"text":"學生為什麼會接觸毒品"},{"start":5618.31,"end":5620.31,"text":"再來學校能不能夠提早"},{"start":5620.31,"end":5622.31,"text":"的發現那另外呢"},{"start":5622.31,"end":5624.31,"text":"就是發現了之後我們有什麼"},{"start":5624.31,"end":5626.31,"text":"樣的一個足夠的資源"},{"start":5626.31,"end":5628.31,"text":"可以來做協助"},{"start":5628.31,"end":5630.31,"text":"所以在這裡我想今天我們針對這個"},{"start":5630.31,"end":5632.31,"text":"四項的一個面向喔"},{"start":5632.31,"end":5634.31,"text":"來請教這個教育部喔那我想呢"},{"start":5634.31,"end":5636.31,"text":"現況當中喔其實我們看到這個"},{"start":5636.31,"end":5638.31,"text":"學生在接觸毒品的同時"},{"start":5638.31,"end":5640.31,"text":"他往往其實不太清楚"},{"start":5640.31,"end":5642.31,"text":"這個所謂的這個產品"},{"start":5642.31,"end":5644.31,"text":"當中的成分那也有可能"},{"start":5644.31,"end":5646.31,"text":"會受到同儕的影響"},{"start":5646.31,"end":5648.31,"text":"甚至家庭關係的"},{"start":5648.31,"end":5650.31,"text":"一個人際關係情緒"},{"start":5650.31,"end":5652.31,"text":"都有關喔那我想呢"},{"start":5652.31,"end":5654.31,"text":"這個如果教育部我們只是掌握"},{"start":5654.31,"end":5656.31,"text":"這個通報的人數但是呢"},{"start":5656.31,"end":5658.31,"text":"卻不了解學生到底他第一次"},{"start":5658.31,"end":5660.31,"text":"或者是他剛開始接觸"},{"start":5660.31,"end":5662.31,"text":"毒品真正的一個原因"},{"start":5662.31,"end":5664.31,"text":"我想就很難針對性的"},{"start":5664.31,"end":5666.31,"text":"一個有防治的一個措施"},{"start":5666.31,"end":5668.31,"text":"所以我想要請教"},{"start":5668.31,"end":5670.31,"text":"這個部長的是現在有沒有"},{"start":5670.31,"end":5672.31,"text":"針對學生他在第一次接觸"},{"start":5672.31,"end":5674.31,"text":"毒品的原因來源"},{"start":5674.31,"end":5676.31,"text":"還有他接觸的情境"},{"start":5676.31,"end":5678.31,"text":"來做分析這是"},{"start":5678.31,"end":5680.31,"text":"第一個問題那再來就是"},{"start":5680.31,"end":5682.31,"text":"我們能不能夠區分"},{"start":5683.34,"end":5685.34,"text":"是因為不認識毒品"},{"start":5685.34,"end":5687.34,"text":"是因為被同儕的影響"},{"start":5687.34,"end":5689.34,"text":"還是有其他的因素"},{"start":5689.34,"end":5691.34,"text":"我們有沒有進而掌握"},{"start":5691.34,"end":5693.34,"text":"就是不同年齡層他們"},{"start":5693.34,"end":5695.34,"text":"所面對的這樣子的一個風險喔"},{"start":5695.34,"end":5697.34,"text":"那我再次強調"},{"start":5697.34,"end":5699.34,"text":"其實我們要的不僅僅"},{"start":5699.34,"end":5701.34,"text":"只是通報的人數"},{"start":5701.34,"end":5703.34,"text":"但我們最想要知道的是"},{"start":5703.34,"end":5705.34,"text":"有沒有針對剛剛我所提到的"},{"start":5705.34,"end":5707.34,"text":"這兩個問題我們有做"},{"start":5707.34,"end":5709.34,"text":"進一步的研究"},{"start":5709.34,"end":5711.34,"text":"確實跟委員報告我們這邊"},{"start":5711.34,"end":5713.34,"text":"學特斯跟國教署確實是"},{"start":5713.34,"end":5715.34,"text":"在這個部分都有進入"},{"start":5715.34,"end":5717.34,"text":"這個分析的個案的一個"},{"start":5717.34,"end":5719.34,"text":"了解那在通報的過程"},{"start":5719.34,"end":5721.34,"text":"我想這個詳細是不是請"},{"start":5721.34,"end":5723.34,"text":"這個蔡市長"},{"start":5723.34,"end":5725.34,"text":"跟委員報告那我們從"},{"start":5725.34,"end":5727.34,"text":"個案的一個主要來看喔"},{"start":5727.34,"end":5729.34,"text":"國小部分大概是環境的因素"},{"start":5729.34,"end":5731.34,"text":"大概為重那大概可能"},{"start":5731.34,"end":5733.34,"text":"家庭的這個影響那國中"},{"start":5733.34,"end":5735.34,"text":"的部分就是同儕可能"},{"start":5735.34,"end":5737.34,"text":"課業壓力或是可能因為"},{"start":5737.34,"end":5739.34,"text":"不知道毒品的一個危害而誤"},{"start":5739.34,"end":5741.34,"text":"處喔那在高中以上我們"},{"start":5741.34,"end":5743.34,"text":"看到可能是在事項打工"},{"start":5743.34,"end":5745.34,"text":"或是因為也是因為同儕的這個"},{"start":5745.34,"end":5747.34,"text":"影響所以我也大概會有這個"},{"start":5747.34,"end":5749.34,"text":"情緒等等的一個壓力"},{"start":5749.34,"end":5751.34,"text":"的一些原因所以我們在"},{"start":5751.34,"end":5753.34,"text":"相關的一個毒品的一個宣導"},{"start":5753.34,"end":5755.34,"text":"就從這些原因希望"},{"start":5755.34,"end":5757.34,"text":"來分眾來做一個規劃"},{"start":5757.34,"end":5759.34,"text":"以上其實我想要具體的一個"},{"start":5759.34,"end":5761.34,"text":"建議了就是說我們當然知道"},{"start":5761.34,"end":5763.34,"text":"這個他們接觸毒品的一個樣態"},{"start":5763.34,"end":5765.34,"text":"或者是他們的情境可能真的都"},{"start":5765.34,"end":5767.34,"text":"不一樣再來分年齡層也可能不同"},{"start":5767.34,"end":5769.34,"text":"國小國中跟高中"},{"start":5769.34,"end":5771.34,"text":"那麼有的國小其實我們可能會"},{"start":5771.34,"end":5773.34,"text":"想說大部分都集中在國中"},{"start":5773.34,"end":5775.34,"text":"其實國小我反而忽略了喔"},{"start":5775.34,"end":5777.34,"text":"但是其實有很多的國小生其實他們"},{"start":5777.34,"end":5779.34,"text":"開始對於所謂的異性或者是"},{"start":5779.34,"end":5781.34,"text":"人際關係開始有一些好奇的時候"},{"start":5781.34,"end":5783.34,"text":"也許就會交上所謂的國中的男女朋友"},{"start":5783.34,"end":5785.34,"text":"那也有可能是因為這樣"},{"start":5785.34,"end":5787.34,"text":"所以他接觸到了毒品"},{"start":5787.34,"end":5789.34,"text":"那我想這個還是要提"},{"start":5789.34,"end":5791.34,"text":"給我們的教育部是不是"},{"start":5791.34,"end":5793.34,"text":"能夠具體的一些"},{"start":5793.34,"end":5795.34,"text":"不管是剛剛講的他們"},{"start":5795.34,"end":5797.34,"text":"接觸的管道分析的機制"},{"start":5797.34,"end":5799.34,"text":"那我想可能定期就要判查一次"},{"start":5799.34,"end":5801.34,"text":"那我們來滾動式的來調整"},{"start":5801.34,"end":5803.34,"text":"來做為我們的因應之道"},{"start":5803.34,"end":5805.34,"text":"而且要依據不同的年齡層"},{"start":5805.34,"end":5807.34,"text":"不同的情境就我剛剛講的"},{"start":5807.34,"end":5809.34,"text":"分眾我們應該"},{"start":5809.34,"end":5811.34,"text":"要怎麼樣來做這個防治的一個措施"},{"start":5811.34,"end":5813.34,"text":"然後再來我們定期的"},{"start":5813.34,"end":5815.34,"text":"來做防治的一個宣導"},{"start":5815.34,"end":5817.34,"text":"跟成效在哪裡這個我想"},{"start":5817.34,"end":5819.34,"text":"都要經過這個詳細的"},{"start":5819.34,"end":5821.34,"text":"分析跟這個所謂的"},{"start":5821.34,"end":5823.34,"text":"調查啦"},{"start":5823.34,"end":5825.34,"text":"好應該這麼講"},{"start":5825.34,"end":5827.34,"text":"那這個部分如果有更進一步的一些"},{"start":5827.34,"end":5829.34,"text":"書面資料再麻煩提供給我"},{"start":5829.34,"end":5831.34,"text":"謝謝委員的一個提醒"},{"start":5831.34,"end":5833.34,"text":"因為確實我們有這個"},{"start":5833.34,"end":5835.34,"text":"按照分齡分教育的宣導"},{"start":5835.34,"end":5837.34,"text":"還有一些資料"},{"start":5837.34,"end":5839.34,"text":"那我想我們會後"},{"start":5839.34,"end":5841.34,"text":"也可以提供給委員參考"},{"start":5841.34,"end":5843.34,"text":"看有沒有可以再更精進的一些"},{"start":5843.34,"end":5845.34,"text":"能夠來做"},{"start":5845.34,"end":5847.34,"text":"應該是說我們宣導的內容也要跟得上"},{"start":5847.34,"end":5849.34,"text":"這所謂的新興的毒品"},{"start":5849.34,"end":5851.34,"text":"他們的一些市場上的變化"},{"start":5851.34,"end":5853.34,"text":"然後跟校園學生"},{"start":5853.34,"end":5855.34,"text":"接觸的這樣子的一個變化的管道跟途徑"},{"start":5855.34,"end":5857.34,"text":"好這是第一個"},{"start":5857.34,"end":5859.34,"text":"問題"},{"start":5859.34,"end":5861.34,"text":"那第二個問題我想問的是電子煙"},{"start":5861.34,"end":5863.34,"text":"那我想"},{"start":5863.34,"end":5865.34,"text":"因為現在我剛剛講了新興毒品它不斷的"},{"start":5865.34,"end":5867.34,"text":"在進化當中"},{"start":5867.34,"end":5869.34,"text":"那我想電子煙也有可能成為"},{"start":5869.34,"end":5871.34,"text":"適用所謂的E-TOMYG"},{"start":5871.34,"end":5873.34,"text":"這樣子的一個毒品的一個載具"},{"start":5873.34,"end":5875.34,"text":"但是也是"},{"start":5875.34,"end":5877.34,"text":"要強調不見得"},{"start":5877.34,"end":5879.34,"text":"持有電子煙就"},{"start":5879.34,"end":5881.34,"text":"表示學生一定涉毒"},{"start":5881.34,"end":5883.34,"text":"是 我想這個不一定要畫上等號"},{"start":5883.34,"end":5885.34,"text":"那我想這個在"},{"start":5885.34,"end":5887.34,"text":"學校的現場"},{"start":5887.34,"end":5889.34,"text":"校園的現場其實我們也都應該有意識到"},{"start":5889.34,"end":5891.34,"text":"但是目前我們其實看到"},{"start":5891.34,"end":5893.34,"text":"這個學校發生學生"},{"start":5893.34,"end":5895.34,"text":"發現學生他在使用這個電子煙"},{"start":5895.34,"end":5897.34,"text":"當然也會依照規定"},{"start":5897.34,"end":5899.34,"text":"來做所謂的流程的通報"},{"start":5899.34,"end":5901.34,"text":"那麼觀察他們的身心狀況"},{"start":5901.34,"end":5903.34,"text":"那麼進一步的話"},{"start":5903.34,"end":5905.34,"text":"可能要做所謂的尿液的篩檢"},{"start":5905.34,"end":5907.34,"text":"那但是呢"},{"start":5907.34,"end":5909.34,"text":"第一線的老師"},{"start":5909.34,"end":5911.34,"text":"他是沒有辦法能夠去"},{"start":5911.34,"end":5913.34,"text":"分辨所謂的油煙的這個"},{"start":5913.34,"end":5915.34,"text":"成分 那這個部分"},{"start":5915.34,"end":5917.34,"text":"是不是也不應該要由"},{"start":5917.34,"end":5919.34,"text":"教師來認定學生"},{"start":5919.34,"end":5921.34,"text":"是不是有涉毒這樣子的一個"},{"start":5921.34,"end":5923.34,"text":"現象喔 那想請教"},{"start":5923.34,"end":5925.34,"text":"第一個問題就是如果"},{"start":5925.34,"end":5927.34,"text":"疑似有含有毒品的"},{"start":5927.34,"end":5929.34,"text":"成分或者是呢還沒確認"},{"start":5929.34,"end":5931.34,"text":"的這個電子煙"},{"start":5931.34,"end":5933.34,"text":"學校目前他可以做的是什麼樣的"},{"start":5933.34,"end":5935.34,"text":"一個防止的一個措施"},{"start":5935.34,"end":5937.34,"text":"比較正確明確的一個"},{"start":5937.34,"end":5939.34,"text":"所謂的作業的指引"},{"start":5939.34,"end":5941.34,"text":"這是第一個問題 第二個問題"},{"start":5941.34,"end":5943.34,"text":"我想問一下這個教育部"},{"start":5943.34,"end":5945.34,"text":"有沒有跟警政或者是"},{"start":5945.34,"end":5947.34,"text":"跟我們的衛生相關的"},{"start":5947.34,"end":5949.34,"text":"選擇的機關機構"},{"start":5949.34,"end":5951.34,"text":"我們來建立所謂的合作的機制"},{"start":5951.34,"end":5953.34,"text":"能夠讓所謂的疑似"},{"start":5953.34,"end":5955.34,"text":"含毒品成分的"},{"start":5955.34,"end":5957.34,"text":"電子煙能夠做進一步的"},{"start":5957.34,"end":5959.34,"text":"鑑識然後並且"},{"start":5959.34,"end":5961.34,"text":"確認然後再來做"},{"start":5961.34,"end":5963.34,"text":"依法的處理這是兩個問題"},{"start":5963.34,"end":5965.34,"text":"請教"},{"start":5965.34,"end":5967.34,"text":"跟委員補充喔就是我們目前的"},{"start":5967.34,"end":5969.34,"text":"這個毒品就分為器具"},{"start":5969.34,"end":5971.34,"text":"跟人那器具屬於是"},{"start":5971.34,"end":5973.34,"text":"如果假設是疑似有這個毒"},{"start":5973.34,"end":5975.34,"text":"的一個部分那我們在學校就是"},{"start":5975.34,"end":5977.34,"text":"要交給警方立即交給"},{"start":5977.34,"end":5979.34,"text":"警方來做一個續查"},{"start":5979.34,"end":5981.34,"text":"驗的這個部分因為這個煙油"},{"start":5981.34,"end":5983.34,"text":"其實是警方才有專業"},{"start":5983.34,"end":5985.34,"text":"那屬於是人的部分就回到特定人員"},{"start":5985.34,"end":5987.34,"text":"的這個採認喔就是我們"},{"start":5987.34,"end":5989.34,"text":"在尿塞的部分我們透過"},{"start":5989.34,"end":5991.34,"text":"這個工具來驗學生是不是"},{"start":5991.34,"end":5993.34,"text":"有疑似來使用施用的這個部分"},{"start":5993.34,"end":5995.34,"text":"再往下來做如果確定"},{"start":5995.34,"end":5997.34,"text":"是陽性的反應"},{"start":5997.34,"end":5999.34,"text":"經過尿液的檢驗是陽性就來"},{"start":5999.34,"end":6001.34,"text":"做春回輔導所以是有這樣的一個"},{"start":6001.34,"end":6003.34,"text":"機制那我們現在目前跟"},{"start":6003.34,"end":6005.34,"text":"就是因為電子煙已經是成為"},{"start":6005.34,"end":6007.34,"text":"這個毒品的一個載具那我們目前"},{"start":6007.34,"end":6009.34,"text":"更加強跟衛福部跟警政"},{"start":6009.34,"end":6011.34,"text":"來做相關這個聯繫"},{"start":6011.34,"end":6013.34,"text":"好不過我們在確定"},{"start":6013.34,"end":6015.34,"text":"就是在區分這個所謂的"},{"start":6015.34,"end":6017.34,"text":"風險的一個辨識的"},{"start":6017.34,"end":6019.34,"text":"這樣子的一個過程當中其實真的"},{"start":6019.34,"end":6021.34,"text":"在成分還沒有完全確定之前"},{"start":6021.34,"end":6023.34,"text":"其實也要小心喔"},{"start":6023.34,"end":6025.34,"text":"我說的小心是不要將"},{"start":6025.34,"end":6027.34,"text":"直接將學生認定他"},{"start":6027.34,"end":6029.34,"text":"就是有涉毒要兼顧到"},{"start":6029.34,"end":6031.34,"text":"學生他們的隱私跟他的受教權"},{"start":6031.34,"end":6033.34,"text":"我想這個部分可能還是要請"},{"start":6033.34,"end":6035.34,"text":"就是教育部這邊我們可能"},{"start":6035.34,"end":6037.34,"text":"要多加的關心啦"},{"start":6037.34,"end":6039.34,"text":"好那再來第三個問題"},{"start":6039.34,"end":6041.34,"text":"是喔這個昨天其實我們的"},{"start":6041.34,"end":6043.34,"text":"這個張廖萬尖次長他"},{"start":6043.34,"end":6045.34,"text":"也有說到這個校安的人力"},{"start":6045.34,"end":6047.34,"text":"有增加那麼國中"},{"start":6047.34,"end":6049.34,"text":"尤其是這個國中的一個部分喔"},{"start":6049.34,"end":6051.34,"text":"但是我想要問的是"},{"start":6051.34,"end":6053.34,"text":"教育部現在推動所謂的校園安全"},{"start":6053.34,"end":6055.34,"text":"任性兩千"},{"start":6055.34,"end":6057.34,"text":"二零零零的一個計畫"},{"start":6057.34,"end":6059.34,"text":"那麼針對九百六十六所的"},{"start":6059.34,"end":6061.34,"text":"一個國中我們將校安的人力"},{"start":6061.34,"end":6063.34,"text":"從六百二十人"},{"start":6063.34,"end":6065.34,"text":"逐步要增加到所謂的兩千人喔"},{"start":6065.34,"end":6067.34,"text":"那依照規定是六班以下"},{"start":6067.34,"end":6069.34,"text":"配一人那麼七到三十六班"},{"start":6069.34,"end":6071.34,"text":"配置兩人三十七班以上"},{"start":6071.34,"end":6073.34,"text":"配置三人當然這樣子的一個"},{"start":6073.34,"end":6075.34,"text":"校安人力的"},{"start":6075.34,"end":6077.34,"text":"一個推進其實我們是"},{"start":6077.34,"end":6079.34,"text":"持非常肯定的一個態度"},{"start":6079.34,"end":6081.34,"text":"但是呢目前我們"},{"start":6081.34,"end":6083.34,"text":"看到的是大部分集中在國中"},{"start":6083.34,"end":6085.34,"text":"那國小跟高中"},{"start":6085.34,"end":6087.34,"text":"還有高中職的部分其實"},{"start":6087.34,"end":6089.34,"text":"是不是也應該也有這樣子"},{"start":6089.34,"end":6091.34,"text":"的一個需求要不要納入"},{"start":6091.34,"end":6093.34,"text":"一起來檢視這個部分"},{"start":6093.34,"end":6095.34,"text":"我想請教一下部長"},{"start":6095.27,"end":6097.27,"text":"跟委員報告我們目前"},{"start":6097.27,"end":6099.27,"text":"也因為從高中時我們看到了"},{"start":6099.27,"end":6101.27,"text":"一些教官或者"},{"start":6101.27,"end":6103.27,"text":"校安人力的一些投入"},{"start":6103.27,"end":6105.27,"text":"他確實對學校的一些偶發事件"},{"start":6105.27,"end":6107.27,"text":"跟一些可能的一些"},{"start":6107.27,"end":6109.27,"text":"校園安全的一些"},{"start":6109.27,"end":6111.27,"text":"包含學生的"},{"start":6111.27,"end":6113.27,"text":"一些可能的"},{"start":6113.27,"end":6115.27,"text":"一些衝突"},{"start":6115.27,"end":6117.27,"text":"那能夠有一些人手能夠"},{"start":6117.27,"end":6119.27,"text":"快速的來化解協助老師"},{"start":6119.27,"end":6121.27,"text":"能夠確保老師的教學"},{"start":6121.27,"end":6123.27,"text":"的一個正常進行"},{"start":6123.27,"end":6125.27,"text":"那也因為這樣"},{"start":6125.27,"end":6127.27,"text":"所以我們今年高中"},{"start":6127.27,"end":6129.27,"text":"本來就已經有2400位"},{"start":6129.27,"end":6131.27,"text":"那我們現在就是因為從高中"},{"start":6131.27,"end":6133.27,"text":"我們目前來講"},{"start":6133.27,"end":6135.27,"text":"我們大概從整個能量"},{"start":6135.27,"end":6137.27,"text":"上來看那當然如果"},{"start":6137.27,"end":6139.27,"text":"不夠我們整體系統上"},{"start":6139.27,"end":6141.27,"text":"我們可以再來檢討"},{"start":6141.27,"end":6143.27,"text":"那也因為高中的這樣一個我們希望說"},{"start":6143.27,"end":6145.27,"text":"因為青少年確實"},{"start":6145.27,"end":6147.27,"text":"國中這一個部分"},{"start":6147.27,"end":6149.27,"text":"青少年許多的這些"},{"start":6149.27,"end":6151.27,"text":"能量非常多然後"},{"start":6151.27,"end":6153.27,"text":"我們希望有更多的一些協助"},{"start":6153.27,"end":6155.27,"text":"讓他們能夠"},{"start":6155.27,"end":6157.27,"text":"這個很平順的"},{"start":6157.27,"end":6159.27,"text":"來發展所以我們才優先"},{"start":6159.27,"end":6161.27,"text":"在這個國中的校安"},{"start":6161.27,"end":6163.27,"text":"任性裡面增加2000位"},{"start":6163.27,"end":6165.27,"text":"那這個2000的人力裡面"},{"start":6165.27,"end":6167.27,"text":"事實上在去年裡面"},{"start":6167.27,"end":6169.27,"text":"也就是說目前我們學校裡面"},{"start":6169.27,"end":6171.27,"text":"也是我去年因為看到"},{"start":6171.27,"end":6173.27,"text":"這個國中我們怎麼樣去協助"},{"start":6173.27,"end":6175.27,"text":"校園安全的一個協助"},{"start":6175.27,"end":6177.27,"text":"我們叫大型的學校優先"},{"start":6177.27,"end":6179.27,"text":"給了特定的一些學校"},{"start":6179.27,"end":6181.27,"text":"比較經常有一些學生"},{"start":6181.27,"end":6183.27,"text":"違法規定的"},{"start":6183.27,"end":6185.27,"text":"也優先給了那考慮"},{"start":6185.27,"end":6187.27,"text":"這一個全面的來給這是我們"},{"start":6187.27,"end":6189.27,"text":"不好意思因為我看到主席都已經"},{"start":6189.27,"end":6191.27,"text":"站起來了因為今天時間的關係"},{"start":6191.27,"end":6193.27,"text":"但是我其中差一個問題"},{"start":6193.27,"end":6195.27,"text":"再來詳細問一下"},{"start":6195.27,"end":6197.27,"text":"就是說我們校安的人力"},{"start":6197.27,"end":6199.27,"text":"除了剛剛所提到的可能"},{"start":6199.27,"end":6201.27,"text":"面對所謂的校園當中的一些衝突"},{"start":6201.27,"end":6203.27,"text":"或者是校園當中的一些偶發"},{"start":6203.27,"end":6205.27,"text":"的一些事件那這些校安"},{"start":6205.27,"end":6207.27,"text":"人力有沒有足夠"},{"start":6207.27,"end":6209.27,"text":"辨識毒品跟危機處理"},{"start":6209.27,"end":6211.27,"text":"還有轉接輔導的一個專業信念"},{"start":6211.27,"end":6213.27,"text":"我們所有都在培訓的過程"},{"start":6213.27,"end":6215.27,"text":"裡面直銜信念都有"},{"start":6215.27,"end":6217.27,"text":"做這樣的一個課程的規劃"},{"start":6217.27,"end":6219.27,"text":"好那這第四個問題"},{"start":6219.27,"end":6221.27,"text":"那就是多給我一分鐘"},{"start":6221.27,"end":6223.27,"text":"的時間我來問完"},{"start":6223.27,"end":6225.27,"text":"那我想這個審計部他有特別"},{"start":6225.27,"end":6227.27,"text":"資料有顯示這個兒少卓毒品"},{"start":6227.27,"end":6229.27,"text":"其實是用兩年之內在通報"},{"start":6229.27,"end":6231.27,"text":"率其實高達28.9%"},{"start":6231.27,"end":6233.27,"text":"這個相當是什麼"},{"start":6233.27,"end":6235.27,"text":"除了通報完之後"},{"start":6235.27,"end":6237.27,"text":"如果沒有後續的支持跟後續的"},{"start":6237.27,"end":6239.27,"text":"一個輔導甚至我們真的在"},{"start":6239.27,"end":6241.27,"text":"所謂的家庭的支持不足"},{"start":6241.27,"end":6243.27,"text":"或者是在他在面對情緒跟人際的"},{"start":6243.27,"end":6245.27,"text":"問題如果單靠學校其實是"},{"start":6245.27,"end":6247.27,"text":"沒有辦法完整的處理"},{"start":6247.27,"end":6249.27,"text":"也就是說這個通報過一次之後"},{"start":6249.27,"end":6251.27,"text":"其實他後面他繼續"},{"start":6251.27,"end":6253.27,"text":"再通報的機率是高達"},{"start":6253.27,"end":6255.27,"text":"將近快要百分之三十"},{"start":6255.27,"end":6257.27,"text":"這也象徵著學生同樣"},{"start":6257.27,"end":6259.27,"text":"再一次的面對這樣子的一個"},{"start":6259.27,"end":6261.27,"text":"相同的一個風險"},{"start":6261.27,"end":6263.27,"text":"那這個時候其實我想請教我們的"},{"start":6263.27,"end":6265.27,"text":"教育部如果有沒有掌握到這個"},{"start":6265.27,"end":6267.27,"text":"學生他通報之後實際接受"},{"start":6267.27,"end":6269.27,"text":"所謂的輔導啦醫療啦"},{"start":6269.27,"end":6271.27,"text":"或者是接治啦等等"},{"start":6271.27,"end":6273.27,"text":"這些所謂的支持後續"},{"start":6273.27,"end":6275.27,"text":"我們有沒有在做追蹤"},{"start":6275.27,"end":6277.27,"text":"然後再來我們後續還有"},{"start":6277.27,"end":6279.27,"text":"有哪一個機關來負責追蹤"},{"start":6279.27,"end":6281.27,"text":"那學生如果碰到所謂的"},{"start":6281.27,"end":6283.27,"text":"中錯或者中斷來做"},{"start":6283.27,"end":6285.27,"text":"輔導讓這個風險"},{"start":6285.27,"end":6287.27,"text":"再次的發生的時候請問"},{"start":6287.27,"end":6289.27,"text":"後續我們處理機制在哪裡"},{"start":6289.76,"end":6291.76,"text":"請你發言"},{"start":6291.76,"end":6293.76,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":6293.76,"end":6295.76,"text":"就是目前我們這個機制是有"},{"start":6295.76,"end":6297.76,"text":"因為針對中錯跟中離的這一個部分"},{"start":6297.76,"end":6299.76,"text":"也有包含我們少府會"},{"start":6299.76,"end":6301.76,"text":"等等的一個單位"},{"start":6301.76,"end":6303.76,"text":"那針對就是跨單位的一個部分"},{"start":6303.76,"end":6305.76,"text":"也會有校外會也會在進行"},{"start":6305.76,"end":6307.76,"text":"追蹤的輔導"},{"start":6307.76,"end":6309.76,"text":"那我們其實也跟委員報告"},{"start":6309.76,"end":6311.76,"text":"因為目前我們主要是校內這個"},{"start":6311.76,"end":6313.76,"text":"春暉輔導有效然後再犯的數據"},{"start":6313.76,"end":6315.76,"text":"其實是七人"},{"start":6315.76,"end":6317.76,"text":"也有遠低這個二十八點九趴"},{"start":6317.76,"end":6319.76,"text":"當然可能包含校內"},{"start":6319.76,"end":6321.76,"text":"跟中錯的校外"},{"start":6321.76,"end":6323.76,"text":"其實是多重的"},{"start":6323.76,"end":6325.76,"text":"我們如果是屬於在學校內"},{"start":6325.76,"end":6327.76,"text":"然後經過這個春暉輔導"},{"start":6327.76,"end":6329.76,"text":"然後再犯的部分"},{"start":6329.76,"end":6331.76,"text":"我們依照一億四的數據是七人"},{"start":6331.76,"end":6333.76,"text":"比例是一趴"},{"start":6333.76,"end":6335.76,"text":"那目前這個可能也含有這個"},{"start":6335.76,"end":6337.76,"text":"就是未在學包含中錯等因素"},{"start":6337.76,"end":6339.76,"text":"那當然我們會把這些部分"},{"start":6339.76,"end":6341.76,"text":"再強化"},{"start":6341.76,"end":6343.76,"text":"那我想今天其實我們講到"},{"start":6343.76,"end":6345.76,"text":"這個校園毒品的一個問題"},{"start":6345.76,"end":6347.76,"text":"其實不能只有宣導跟通報而已"},{"start":6347.76,"end":6349.76,"text":"其實我們應該要讓整個所有的防堵隊"},{"start":6349.76,"end":6351.76,"text":"一個措施跟整個所有的機制"},{"start":6351.76,"end":6353.76,"text":"能夠正常的運作起來"},{"start":6353.76,"end":6355.76,"text":"可能要化不會"},{"start":6355.76,"end":6357.76,"text":"那我想教育部這邊可能還要再繼續"},{"start":6357.76,"end":6359.76,"text":"更用心一點我們一起加油好嗎"},{"start":6359.76,"end":6361.76,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝主席"},{"start":6361.76,"end":6363.76,"text":"謝謝國務卿委員"},{"start":6363.76,"end":6365.76,"text":"接下來請羅志強委員發言"},{"start":6381.79,"end":6383.79,"text":"有請部長還有法務部"},{"start":6385.97,"end":6387.97,"text":"然後內政部警政署"},{"start":6387.97,"end":6389.97,"text":"以及衛福部"},{"start":6390.6,"end":6392.6,"text":"好請上訴官員上台"},{"start":6400.18,"end":6402.18,"text":"委員們"},{"start":6401.23,"end":6403.23,"text":"部長您好還有我們幾位次長好"},{"start":6405.13,"end":6407.13,"text":"好我想先請教一下"},{"start":6407.13,"end":6409.13,"text":"我先念一段話"},{"start":6409.5,"end":6411.5,"text":"如果B政策的除罪化"},{"start":6411.5,"end":6413.5,"text":"對於某些人過於偏激"},{"start":6413.5,"end":6415.5,"text":"那麼台灣至少可以"},{"start":6415.5,"end":6417.5,"text":"仿效某些國家"},{"start":6417.5,"end":6419.5,"text":"建立社區中心"},{"start":6419.5,"end":6421.5,"text":"提供吸毒者毒品"},{"start":6421.5,"end":6423.5,"text":"與乾淨的針頭"},{"start":6426,"end":6428,"text":"並導入社工機制與以協助"},{"start":6429.78,"end":6431.78,"text":"部長你知道這段話誰說的嗎"},{"start":6434.05,"end":6436.05,"text":"過去我當然前一陣子看到"},{"start":6436.05,"end":6438.05,"text":"一些媒體上的報導"},{"start":6439.38,"end":6441.38,"text":"誰說的"},{"start":6440.82,"end":6442.82,"text":"哦"},{"start":6443.62,"end":6445.62,"text":"整個來講我其實"},{"start":6445.62,"end":6447.62,"text":"當然媒體有報導的"},{"start":6447.62,"end":6449.62,"text":"省委員曾經有這樣"},{"start":6449.62,"end":6451.62,"text":"謝謝就省國良講的"},{"start":6451.62,"end":6453.62,"text":"也不是媒體報導"},{"start":6453.62,"end":6455.62,"text":"他真的是這樣講"},{"start":6454.93,"end":6456.93,"text":"白紙黑字"},{"start":6456.82,"end":6458.82,"text":"他以前的文章在"},{"start":6458.82,"end":6460.82,"text":"柯震東震出我國毒品政策的爛床"},{"start":6460.82,"end":6462.82,"text":"裡面就是這段話"},{"start":6462.82,"end":6464.82,"text":"你可以直接看"},{"start":6464.41,"end":6466.41,"text":"直接看這是他的原句"},{"start":6466.41,"end":6468.41,"text":"完全引用"},{"start":6468.8,"end":6470.8,"text":"剛剛劉委員說"},{"start":6470.8,"end":6472.8,"text":"蔣萬市長"},{"start":6472.66,"end":6474.66,"text":"在接受採訪的時候說"},{"start":6474.66,"end":6476.66,"text":"他反對省國良"},{"start":6476.66,"end":6478.66,"text":"主張建立社區中心"},{"start":6478.66,"end":6480.66,"text":"提供吸毒者毒品跟針頭"},{"start":6482.69,"end":6484.69,"text":"然後"},{"start":6484.15,"end":6486.15,"text":"我們的明鏡達委員"},{"start":6486.77,"end":6488.77,"text":"蔣萬造謠"},{"start":6488.77,"end":6490.77,"text":"誤導民眾跟青少年"},{"start":6492.24,"end":6494.24,"text":"我其實很感慨"},{"start":6494.77,"end":6496.77,"text":"到底誰在造謠"},{"start":6497.97,"end":6499.97,"text":"白紙黑字寫的這麼清楚"},{"start":6500.93,"end":6502.93,"text":"咳"},{"start":6502.21,"end":6504.21,"text":"省國良委員"},{"start":6504.21,"end":6506.21,"text":"今天也沒來簽到"},{"start":6506.21,"end":6508.21,"text":"應該沒有吧"},{"start":6508.21,"end":6510.21,"text":"不知道主席"},{"start":6510.34,"end":6512.34,"text":"不是很關心校園嗎"},{"start":6513.35,"end":6515.35,"text":"也應該為他的過去的主張"},{"start":6515.35,"end":6517.35,"text":"這邊好好跟大家來"},{"start":6517.65,"end":6519.65,"text":"問問教育部覺得主張好不好"},{"start":6520.84,"end":6522.84,"text":"我再回頭說這句話"},{"start":6524.01,"end":6526.01,"text":"我要告訴大家"},{"start":6526.17,"end":6528.17,"text":"省國良面對追劇白紙黑字"},{"start":6529.51,"end":6531.51,"text":"他可以告訴大家"},{"start":6531.3,"end":6533.3,"text":"我2014年省國良想法不夠成熟"},{"start":6535,"end":6537,"text":"所以當我主張這件事情"},{"start":6538.39,"end":6540.39,"text":"我現在想把變了"},{"start":6541.28,"end":6543.28,"text":"人不是不可以改變"},{"start":6544.43,"end":6546.43,"text":"但是"},{"start":6545.63,"end":6547.63,"text":"現在"},{"start":6546.79,"end":6548.79,"text":"最悲哀的是"},{"start":6549.83,"end":6551.83,"text":"別人講重述他講過的話"},{"start":6553.71,"end":6555.71,"text":"他就是說建立社區中心提供吸毒者毒品跟乾淨的針頭"},{"start":6559.08,"end":6561.08,"text":"他講話在哪裡說錯了"},{"start":6561.54,"end":6563.54,"text":"請快反對他這個主張"},{"start":6564.31,"end":6566.31,"text":"講話說他曾經主張過這件事情"},{"start":6569.79,"end":6571.79,"text":"我想請教一下"},{"start":6571.57,"end":6573.57,"text":"請教部長"},{"start":6576.75,"end":6578.75,"text":"建立社區中心提供毒品給吸毒者與乾淨的針頭"},{"start":6582.35,"end":6584.35,"text":"我沒造假吧"},{"start":6584.91,"end":6586.91,"text":"我現在貼在投影片這個"},{"start":6586.91,"end":6588.91,"text":"這個投影片我沒有造假吧"},{"start":6589.81,"end":6591.81,"text":"部長你幫我揭穿"},{"start":6591.81,"end":6593.81,"text":"幫他揭穿我造假"},{"start":6593.81,"end":6595.81,"text":"這個是造謠的"},{"start":6595.81,"end":6597.81,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":6597.81,"end":6599.81,"text":"這一個是屬於這個陰害這個環制跟學校裡邊的"},{"start":6599.81,"end":6601.81,"text":"部長你這樣講"},{"start":6601.81,"end":6603.81,"text":"我對你的責任就打了折扣"},{"start":6603.81,"end":6605.81,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":6605.81,"end":6607.81,"text":"來衛福部來"},{"start":6608,"end":6610,"text":"部長點名你嘛"},{"start":6610,"end":6612,"text":"我先回頭講"},{"start":6612,"end":6614,"text":"其實部長剛剛這個說法也有問題"},{"start":6615.71,"end":6617.71,"text":"你也知道毒品啊"},{"start":6617.87,"end":6619.87,"text":"今天對於校園的影響非常大"},{"start":6619.87,"end":6621.87,"text":"毒品也不是說今天只在校園發生"},{"start":6621.87,"end":6623.87,"text":"然後只在社區發生"},{"start":6623.87,"end":6625.87,"text":"只在哪個範圍發生"},{"start":6626.76,"end":6628.76,"text":"今天談到毒品問題本來就是一體的"},{"start":6630.56,"end":6634.56,"text":"建立社區中心提供吸毒者毒品與乾淨的針頭是誰說的"},{"start":6634.56,"end":6636.56,"text":"請問市長"},{"start":6635.81,"end":6637.81,"text":"我想這是先前"},{"start":6637.81,"end":6639.81,"text":"因為省委員"},{"start":6639.81,"end":6641.81,"text":"先前還不是委員的時候說的"},{"start":6641.81,"end":6643.81,"text":"2014號"},{"start":6643.81,"end":6645.81,"text":"市長講話就是忠肯"},{"start":6646.47,"end":6648.47,"text":"是在他還不是委員的時候說的嘛"},{"start":6650.17,"end":6652.17,"text":"但他有說嘛"},{"start":6652.17,"end":6654.17,"text":"我想他整個應該都是屬於"},{"start":6654.17,"end":6656.17,"text":"簡害的政策"},{"start":6656.17,"end":6658.17,"text":"謝謝你的回答"},{"start":6658.34,"end":6660.34,"text":"但他有說啊"},{"start":6661.29,"end":6663.29,"text":"但他有說啊"},{"start":6664.51,"end":6666.51,"text":"但他有說啊我講三遍"},{"start":6666.51,"end":6668.51,"text":"因為真的沒辦法"},{"start":6668.5,"end":6670.5,"text":"誰敢今天在洋流的情況之下"},{"start":6670.5,"end":6672.5,"text":"誰敢說"},{"start":6672.5,"end":6674.5,"text":"省博洋曾經說建立社區中心提供毒品給"},{"start":6674.5,"end":6676.5,"text":"吸毒者毒品跟乾淨的針頭"},{"start":6676.5,"end":6678.5,"text":"誰敢講這句話"},{"start":6678.5,"end":6680.5,"text":"民進黨就說你造謠"},{"start":6682.1,"end":6684.1,"text":"我也被說造謠啊"},{"start":6685.52,"end":6687.52,"text":"我覺得省博洋"},{"start":6687.52,"end":6689.52,"text":"2014年這個主張要讓全台北市民知道啊"},{"start":6691.06,"end":6693.06,"text":"所以我出了一台宣傳車在台北市走啊"},{"start":6695.18,"end":6697.18,"text":"阿省博洋說我造謠啊"},{"start":6698.08,"end":6700.08,"text":"剛剛部長跟次長都認證啦"},{"start":6701.4,"end":6703.4,"text":"這是他講的話不是我講的話"},{"start":6704.17,"end":6706.17,"text":"我想跟委員報告"},{"start":6707.16,"end":6709.16,"text":"等我講完"},{"start":6710.19,"end":6712.19,"text":"結果變我造謠說要告我"},{"start":6712.19,"end":6714.19,"text":"當然省博洋現在也沒告我啦"},{"start":6714.19,"end":6716.19,"text":"謝謝他沒有告我"},{"start":6716.34,"end":6718.34,"text":"溫暖的洋流"},{"start":6718.34,"end":6720.34,"text":"最後說告羅志強沒有告"},{"start":6720.34,"end":6722.34,"text":"很溫暖我感受到他的溫暖"},{"start":6723.95,"end":6725.95,"text":"這個世界有一個顛覆不破的道理"},{"start":6728.37,"end":6730.37,"text":"你說過的話可以"},{"start":6731.66,"end":6733.66,"text":"當你說過的話你不可以不認"},{"start":6735.3,"end":6737.3,"text":"你說過的話你可以改"},{"start":6737.92,"end":6739.92,"text":"但你不要說人家說反對你的主張"},{"start":6739.92,"end":6741.92,"text":"把你引述你過去說過的話"},{"start":6741.92,"end":6743.92,"text":"然後去扣人家一個造謠的帽子"},{"start":6746.09,"end":6748.09,"text":"這不是負責任的政治人物"},{"start":6748.87,"end":6750.87,"text":"這也是一個不誠實的行為"},{"start":6751.94,"end":6753.94,"text":"來問校園的問題啊"},{"start":6754.36,"end":6756.36,"text":"我想請教那個部長"},{"start":6757.22,"end":6759.22,"text":"請教部長"},{"start":6760.95,"end":6762.95,"text":"你知道"},{"start":6762.73,"end":6766.73,"text":"我們省委員2014年也主張嘛"},{"start":6766.73,"end":6768.73,"text":"他有說"},{"start":6768.53,"end":6770.53,"text":"他有說在學校"},{"start":6771.23,"end":6773.23,"text":"篩檢驗讀啊"},{"start":6773.23,"end":6775.23,"text":"前面都有講過啊"},{"start":6774.37,"end":6776.37,"text":"是惡濫的政策"},{"start":6776.37,"end":6778.37,"text":"我剛剛也聽到啦部長你們也講過啦"},{"start":6778.37,"end":6780.37,"text":"你們現在"},{"start":6780.44,"end":6782.44,"text":"也主張篩檢但不是普篩嘛"},{"start":6782.44,"end":6784.44,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6783.72,"end":6785.72,"text":"我贊成啦"},{"start":6786.17,"end":6788.17,"text":"我贊成啦"},{"start":6787.77,"end":6789.77,"text":"請問現在篩檢的方式是什麼"},{"start":6792.16,"end":6794.16,"text":"我們對特定的一個人員他可能"},{"start":6794.16,"end":6796.16,"text":"比如說曾經有這個"},{"start":6796.16,"end":6798.16,"text":"吸毒的一個"},{"start":6798.16,"end":6800.16,"text":"高風險群嘛"},{"start":6800.16,"end":6802.16,"text":"這些先生"},{"start":6801.66,"end":6803.66,"text":"然後"},{"start":6803.66,"end":6805.66,"text":"然後我們才會進行"},{"start":6805.66,"end":6807.66,"text":"然後基本上我們在整個"},{"start":6807.66,"end":6809.66,"text":"還是從教育的觀點不希望"},{"start":6809.66,"end":6811.66,"text":"有什麼進化"},{"start":6811.66,"end":6813.66,"text":"我應該中文沒有不好啊"},{"start":6813.66,"end":6815.66,"text":"我有什麼方法驗"},{"start":6815.16,"end":6817.16,"text":"我們是用"},{"start":6817.16,"end":6819.16,"text":"目前是用尿液篩檢"},{"start":6819.16,"end":6821.16,"text":"非常好"},{"start":6822.06,"end":6824.06,"text":"當然啦2014年什麼樣不是委員啦"},{"start":6825.86,"end":6827.86,"text":"他說新北想要用尿液篩檢"},{"start":6827.86,"end":6829.86,"text":"他說是惡濫"},{"start":6830.6,"end":6832.6,"text":"現在他也主張要去篩檢"},{"start":6832.6,"end":6834.6,"text":"很好啊波亂反正啊"},{"start":6834.6,"end":6836.6,"text":"迷途之返啊壓流回歸啊"},{"start":6836.6,"end":6838.6,"text":"很好啊肯定他"},{"start":6839.95,"end":6841.95,"text":"可是還是那句老話嘛"},{"start":6843.37,"end":6845.37,"text":"那為什麼你不在兩個月前就跟大家講說"},{"start":6845.37,"end":6847.37,"text":"沒有哦"},{"start":6847.37,"end":6849.37,"text":"校園篩檢沒有惡濫哦"},{"start":6849.85,"end":6851.85,"text":"你為什麼不三個月前講沒有惡濫哦"},{"start":6853.63,"end":6855.63,"text":"平民就當選台北市長"},{"start":6855.63,"end":6857.63,"text":"就說沒有惡濫哦"},{"start":6857.63,"end":6859.63,"text":"我也有主張哦"},{"start":6859.63,"end":6861.63,"text":"我以前認為的惡濫現在不惡濫了哦"},{"start":6862.78,"end":6864.78,"text":"然後我還是在講一件重要的事情啊"},{"start":6866.61,"end":6868.61,"text":"我告訴所有的我們的民眾們"},{"start":6870.83,"end":6872.83,"text":"我曾經質詢過監察委員的被提名的"},{"start":6872.83,"end":6874.83,"text":"有一個監察委員被提名的"},{"start":6874.83,"end":6876.83,"text":"我質詢他"},{"start":6877.8,"end":6879.8,"text":"他也是一樣十幾年前寫了一篇文章"},{"start":6879.8,"end":6881.8,"text":"他主張廢除監察院"},{"start":6882.94,"end":6884.94,"text":"我當場質詢他"},{"start":6884.94,"end":6886.94,"text":"請問你現在主張廢除監察院嗎"},{"start":6886.94,"end":6888.94,"text":"他說他現在反對了"},{"start":6888.94,"end":6890.94,"text":"我說反對的原因是什麼"},{"start":6890.94,"end":6892.94,"text":"他就一二三告訴我反對的原因是什麼"},{"start":6892.94,"end":6894.94,"text":"很好他改變了"},{"start":6896.48,"end":6898.48,"text":"但我下一個問題問他說"},{"start":6898.48,"end":6900.48,"text":"請問你是什麼時候改變的"},{"start":6903.63,"end":6905.63,"text":"他答不出來你知道為什麼"},{"start":6905.84,"end":6907.84,"text":"因為他是被提名監察委員以後"},{"start":6907.84,"end":6909.84,"text":"他才改變的"},{"start":6910.06,"end":6912.06,"text":"我就說慢慢十多年的歲月"},{"start":6913.5,"end":6915.5,"text":"很巧啊"},{"start":6915.48,"end":6917.48,"text":"你沒有在一年前兩年前五年前十年前改變"},{"start":6917.48,"end":6919.48,"text":"你就剛好被提名監察委員以後改變"},{"start":6923.26,"end":6925.26,"text":"那我不能我會不會解讀是你為了要當監察委員你才改變啊"},{"start":6928.57,"end":6930.57,"text":"如果沒有被提名為監察委員你就不改變啊"},{"start":6930.57,"end":6932.57,"text":"你知道他怎麼回答嗎"},{"start":6934.5,"end":6936.5,"text":"不長腿啊怎麼回答"},{"start":6936.88,"end":6938.88,"text":"他傻在那邊答不出來"},{"start":6939.78,"end":6941.78,"text":"他完全答不出來啊"},{"start":6943.58,"end":6945.58,"text":"認在那裡"},{"start":6945.04,"end":6947.04,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":6946.51,"end":6948.51,"text":"因為他還有羞恥心"},{"start":6949.52,"end":6951.52,"text":"他還知道什麼叫羞恥"},{"start":6951.79,"end":6953.79,"text":"他知道我講的是對的"},{"start":6953.79,"end":6955.79,"text":"他過去確實沒有改變過立場"},{"start":6955.79,"end":6957.79,"text":"他直到被提名為監察委員的時候"},{"start":6957.79,"end":6959.79,"text":"他才突然改變立場"},{"start":6960.1,"end":6962.1,"text":"來了"},{"start":6962.02,"end":6964.02,"text":"我們最溫暖的沈柏楊"},{"start":6965.55,"end":6967.55,"text":"主張大麻合法化"},{"start":6968.42,"end":6972.42,"text":"主張社區公司中心提供毒品給吸毒者"},{"start":6972.42,"end":6974.42,"text":"主張廢除死刑"},{"start":6974.42,"end":6976.42,"text":"一路走來十多年"},{"start":6977.12,"end":6979.12,"text":"其次分明"},{"start":6979.89,"end":6981.89,"text":"他沒有在去年改變"},{"start":6982.05,"end":6984.05,"text":"前年改變"},{"start":6984.05,"end":6986.05,"text":"三年前改變"},{"start":6986.05,"end":6988.05,"text":"五年前改變"},{"start":6988.05,"end":6990.05,"text":"甚至半年前他都沒改變"},{"start":6991.21,"end":6993.21,"text":"這麼巧"},{"start":6993.69,"end":6995.69,"text":"是天降神機"},{"start":6995.69,"end":6997.69,"text":"啟發了他"},{"start":6997.79,"end":6999.79,"text":"突然這個月改變"},{"start":7001.02,"end":7003.02,"text":"反對廢死啦"},{"start":7002.89,"end":7004.89,"text":"反對大麻合法化啦"},{"start":7006,"end":7008,"text":"不認自己曾經說過的"},{"start":7008,"end":7010,"text":"建立社區中心提供毒品給"},{"start":7010,"end":7012,"text":"提供吸毒者毒品跟乾淨的針頭"},{"start":7012,"end":7014,"text":"不認啦"},{"start":7016.09,"end":7018.09,"text":"那我能講什麼呢"},{"start":7018.31,"end":7020.31,"text":"我只能說"},{"start":7019.72,"end":7021.72,"text":"這麼巧啊"},{"start":7023.26,"end":7025.26,"text":"選完台北市長再變回來"},{"start":7025.26,"end":7027.26,"text":"請問大家意外嗎"},{"start":7027.26,"end":7029.26,"text":"我是不意外啦"},{"start":7033.05,"end":7035.05,"text":"好 謝謝羅志強委員"},{"start":7036.86,"end":7038.86,"text":"好 接下來請吳佩奕委員發言"},{"start":7040.78,"end":7042.78,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7043.8,"end":7045.8,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7047.24,"end":7049.24,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請法務部"},{"start":7050.43,"end":7052.43,"text":"我請法務部"},{"start":7062.13,"end":7064.13,"text":"吳佩奕 吳佩奕 吳佩奕"},{"start":7063.09,"end":7065.09,"text":"好 市長好"},{"start":7065.09,"end":7067.09,"text":"我們台灣有一位喜劇演員"},{"start":7067.09,"end":7069.09,"text":"叫做黃毅豪"},{"start":7069.09,"end":7071.09,"text":"那麼在最近"},{"start":7071.09,"end":7073.09,"text":"因為你們已經有起訴案件"},{"start":7073.09,"end":7075.09,"text":"正常完成"},{"start":7075.09,"end":7077.09,"text":"發現說他"},{"start":7077.09,"end":7079.09,"text":"被中國人在台灣"},{"start":7079.09,"end":7081.09,"text":"買凶來攻擊"},{"start":7081.09,"end":7083.09,"text":"甚至是"},{"start":7083.09,"end":7085.09,"text":"用開車去撞他"},{"start":7084.96,"end":7086.96,"text":"然後呢 這個指使買凶的"},{"start":7086.96,"end":7088.96,"text":"這個中國人 他當時指定的是說"},{"start":7088.96,"end":7090.96,"text":"一定要讓他斷手斷腳"},{"start":7090.96,"end":7092.96,"text":"要讓他住院到"},{"start":7092.96,"end":7094.96,"text":"沒有辦法參與他九月"},{"start":7094.96,"end":7096.96,"text":"原先預定在卡美地區"},{"start":7096.96,"end":7098.96,"text":"的演出 那原因是什麼呢"},{"start":7098.96,"end":7100.96,"text":"原因是因為他之前"},{"start":7100.96,"end":7102.96,"text":"在他演出當中有一段"},{"start":7102.96,"end":7104.96,"text":"兩分半的裡面有關於"},{"start":7104.96,"end":7106.96,"text":"習近平的評論"},{"start":7106.96,"end":7108.96,"text":"那所以呢 中國"},{"start":7108.96,"end":7110.96,"text":"有人看到了就非常的不悅"},{"start":7110.96,"end":7112.96,"text":"所以花錢在台灣"},{"start":7112.96,"end":7114.96,"text":"買凶"},{"start":7115.32,"end":7117.32,"text":"那這個事情呢 真的是嚇到大家了"},{"start":7117.32,"end":7119.32,"text":"因為黃毅豪他"},{"start":7119.32,"end":7121.32,"text":"甚至不是一位政治人物"},{"start":7122.74,"end":7124.74,"text":"那之前呢 當我們看到說"},{"start":7124.74,"end":7126.74,"text":"中國開始進行"},{"start":7126.74,"end":7128.74,"text":"跨境鎮壓"},{"start":7128.74,"end":7130.74,"text":"這個是全球性的 包括"},{"start":7130.74,"end":7132.74,"text":"IPAC 包括藏人團體"},{"start":7132.74,"end":7134.74,"text":"包括香港人 很多國際的人群團體"},{"start":7134.74,"end":7136.74,"text":"都提出警示"},{"start":7136.74,"end":7138.74,"text":"因為中國確實在世界"},{"start":7138.74,"end":7140.74,"text":"各地 其他國家也都開始"},{"start":7140.74,"end":7142.74,"text":"有進行跨境鎮壓"},{"start":7142.74,"end":7144.74,"text":"可是呢 像我們立法院的"},{"start":7144.74,"end":7146.74,"text":"同事陳柏楊委員 之前在他家"},{"start":7146.74,"end":7148.74,"text":"門口是被發現說"},{"start":7148.74,"end":7150.74,"text":"在機車上面有被裝了這個"},{"start":7150.74,"end":7152.74,"text":"監視器 來去監控他每天的這個"},{"start":7152.74,"end":7154.74,"text":"這個出入"},{"start":7154.74,"end":7156.74,"text":"那當時一度呢 台灣還有人"},{"start":7156.74,"end":7158.74,"text":"公眾人物是拒絕相信"},{"start":7158.74,"end":7160.74,"text":"說他這個是叫做自導自演"},{"start":7160.74,"end":7162.74,"text":"那後來也是在檢方的追查之下"},{"start":7162.74,"end":7164.74,"text":"我們今年也起訴"},{"start":7164.74,"end":7166.74,"text":"發現了 原來是台灣的"},{"start":7166.74,"end":7168.74,"text":"真性社 接受到來自"},{"start":7168.74,"end":7170.74,"text":"香港的指令 要對"},{"start":7170.74,"end":7172.74,"text":"沈柏楊進行更捷"},{"start":7173.05,"end":7175.05,"text":"那我覺得這個事情的嚴重性"},{"start":7177.15,"end":7179.15,"text":"我們真的不能小看"},{"start":7179.81,"end":7181.81,"text":"因為這一位喜劇演員"},{"start":7181.81,"end":7183.81,"text":"他是一個文化創作者"},{"start":7183.81,"end":7185.81,"text":"那我想 其實我們台灣"},{"start":7185.81,"end":7187.81,"text":"最引引自豪的就是 我們是一個"},{"start":7187.81,"end":7189.81,"text":"允許自由"},{"start":7189.81,"end":7191.81,"text":"創作的一個文化"},{"start":7191.81,"end":7193.81,"text":"的環境"},{"start":7193.81,"end":7195.81,"text":"那今天是一個喜劇演員"},{"start":7195.81,"end":7197.81,"text":"只是有一個評論 就被中國"},{"start":7197.81,"end":7199.81,"text":"買兇說他給他斷手斷腳"},{"start":7199.81,"end":7201.81,"text":"讓他不能演出 那下一次呢"},{"start":7202.97,"end":7204.97,"text":"會不會一個歌手因為寫了一首歌"},{"start":7204.97,"end":7206.97,"text":"裡面涉及到評論習近平"},{"start":7207.69,"end":7209.69,"text":"也會因此而被買兇"},{"start":7209.69,"end":7211.69,"text":"那在下一次呢 會不會是一個畫家"},{"start":7212.57,"end":7214.57,"text":"那這個對整個台灣的文化創作圈來講"},{"start":7214.57,"end":7216.57,"text":"其實"},{"start":7216.57,"end":7218.57,"text":"我想中國要的就是這一種"},{"start":7218.57,"end":7220.57,"text":"殺精擊猴的效應"},{"start":7221.6,"end":7223.6,"text":"那在這個案件當中"},{"start":7223.6,"end":7225.6,"text":"我們也開始發現到說 我們"},{"start":7225.6,"end":7227.6,"text":"現行的反滲透法"},{"start":7227.6,"end":7229.6,"text":"他確實有所不足"},{"start":7229.6,"end":7231.6,"text":"這個黃毅豪先生他說"},{"start":7231.6,"end":7233.6,"text":"這個案件發生之後他說"},{"start":7233.6,"end":7235.6,"text":"那如果中國都還沒有統治台灣"},{"start":7235.6,"end":7237.6,"text":"在台灣就已經有人會"},{"start":7237.6,"end":7239.6,"text":"因為批評他而遭到這樣的對待"},{"start":7239.6,"end":7241.6,"text":"那我們能夠期待"},{"start":7241.6,"end":7243.6,"text":"萬一有一天中國真的來統治台灣了"},{"start":7243.6,"end":7245.6,"text":"我們還可以在這邊自由的說話"},{"start":7246.17,"end":7248.17,"text":"這個真的是 我覺得很嚴重的"},{"start":7248.17,"end":7250.17,"text":"所以跨境鎮壓 中國的跨境鎮壓"},{"start":7250.17,"end":7252.17,"text":"在台灣已經在發生"},{"start":7252.17,"end":7254.17,"text":"我們現在的反滲透法"},{"start":7254.17,"end":7256.17,"text":"原先在規劃的時候 因為想像不到這個狀況"},{"start":7256.17,"end":7258.17,"text":"我們當時針對的是在國內的戒選"},{"start":7259.53,"end":7261.53,"text":"所以可能是這個選罷法"},{"start":7261.53,"end":7263.53,"text":"遊說 政治獻金相關的"},{"start":7263.53,"end":7265.53,"text":"我們沒有想到說 會因為"},{"start":7265.53,"end":7267.53,"text":"有一個人 甚至跟選舉無關的人"},{"start":7267.53,"end":7269.53,"text":"然後會遭受到跟監"},{"start":7269.53,"end":7271.53,"text":"我們這個法務部部長"},{"start":7271.53,"end":7273.53,"text":"也有說 法務部也有在閹理"},{"start":7273.53,"end":7275.53,"text":"反滲透法要來修正"},{"start":7275.53,"end":7277.53,"text":"這個次長你能不能說明一下"},{"start":7277.53,"end":7279.53,"text":"我們反滲透法要怎麼樣來修正"},{"start":7279.53,"end":7281.53,"text":"來針對這樣跨境鎮壓的狀況"},{"start":7281.53,"end":7283.53,"text":"跟委員報告 其實委員提到的"},{"start":7283.53,"end":7285.53,"text":"這一個跨境鎮壓"},{"start":7285.53,"end":7287.53,"text":"或者我們說跨國鎮壓的這個部分"},{"start":7287.53,"end":7289.53,"text":"目前的一個情況 確實已經發現了好幾個案例了"},{"start":7291.53,"end":7293.53,"text":"從台中的石板明夫"},{"start":7293.53,"end":7295.53,"text":"還有我們這位黃信的喜劇演員"},{"start":7295.53,"end":7297.53,"text":"甚至剛剛提到"},{"start":7297.53,"end":7299.53,"text":"什麼樣的候選人被監"},{"start":7299.53,"end":7301.53,"text":"被監"},{"start":7301.53,"end":7303.53,"text":"被監"},{"start":7303.53,"end":7305.53,"text":"這個拍攝的情況"},{"start":7305.53,"end":7307.53,"text":"都可以顯示"},{"start":7307.78,"end":7309.78,"text":"抱歉"},{"start":7311.15,"end":7313.15,"text":"都可以顯示出"},{"start":7313.15,"end":7315.15,"text":"在這個部分常常會利用一些"},{"start":7315.15,"end":7317.15,"text":"就是說境外敵對勢力"},{"start":7317.15,"end":7319.15,"text":"會利用一些我們國內"},{"start":7319.15,"end":7321.15,"text":"目前比較輕的那種罪名"},{"start":7321.15,"end":7323.15,"text":"可是來進行騷擾或者是一些壓迫"},{"start":7323.15,"end":7325.15,"text":"那這樣的一個情況之下"},{"start":7325.15,"end":7327.15,"text":"我們除了在現行的"},{"start":7327.15,"end":7329.15,"text":"做法上 我們有一個平台"},{"start":7329.15,"end":7331.15,"text":"機制來立即來反應這些事情"},{"start":7331.15,"end":7333.15,"text":"然後針對這一些"},{"start":7333.15,"end":7335.15,"text":"就是敵對勢力的 或者是在台協力的"},{"start":7335.15,"end":7337.15,"text":"去做這個就是說"},{"start":7337.15,"end":7339.15,"text":"促查嚴懲的之外"},{"start":7339.15,"end":7341.15,"text":"那我們在法制面上也確實"},{"start":7341.15,"end":7343.15,"text":"開始在研議 我們目前的部分"},{"start":7343.15,"end":7345.15,"text":"在針對這個 在反滲透法"},{"start":7345.15,"end":7347.15,"text":"這個部分去針對像"},{"start":7347.15,"end":7349.15,"text":"這樣的類似的一個情況"},{"start":7349.15,"end":7351.15,"text":"像我們剛剛提到的這個跟騷"},{"start":7351.15,"end":7353.15,"text":"的這樣的狀況"},{"start":7353.15,"end":7355.15,"text":"在我們目前的法制面上"},{"start":7355.15,"end":7357.15,"text":"它必須跟性別跟性有關"},{"start":7357.15,"end":7359.15,"text":"所以我們可能才會觸犯到那個條文"},{"start":7359.15,"end":7361.15,"text":"但是未來的部分針對一些"},{"start":7361.15,"end":7363.15,"text":"就是說有關於這樣的一個"},{"start":7363.15,"end":7365.15,"text":"被敵對勢力來做這些"},{"start":7365.15,"end":7367.15,"text":"跟騷或壓迫的這些部分"},{"start":7367.15,"end":7369.15,"text":"我們都會去做在法條上的一個規範"},{"start":7369.15,"end":7371.15,"text":"那希望是說能夠"},{"start":7371.15,"end":7373.15,"text":"針對這樣的一個惡劣的行為"},{"start":7373.15,"end":7375.15,"text":"或迫害我們國家的主權 國家安全"},{"start":7375.15,"end":7377.15,"text":"的這部分上面 我們能夠在反滲透法上"},{"start":7377.15,"end":7379.15,"text":"做一個完整的規劃"},{"start":7379.15,"end":7381.15,"text":"那跟委員報告 目前的這樣的一個"},{"start":7381.15,"end":7383.15,"text":"這樣的一個法條的部分"},{"start":7383.15,"end":7385.15,"text":"我們在行政院裡面做研議"},{"start":7385.15,"end":7387.15,"text":"然後跟委員另外報告的是說"},{"start":7387.15,"end":7389.15,"text":"因為目前的這個部分 除了這一些"},{"start":7389.15,"end":7391.15,"text":"中國大陸人士之外"},{"start":7391.15,"end":7393.15,"text":"它是不是有包括到組織犯罪的部分"},{"start":7393.15,"end":7395.15,"text":"又或者是它再犯的部分"},{"start":7395.15,"end":7397.15,"text":"這個部分我們也一併的會在這個部分"},{"start":7397.15,"end":7399.15,"text":"再去做研究 然後就是說"},{"start":7399.15,"end":7401.15,"text":"在行政院再討論 然後我們會儘速"},{"start":7401.15,"end":7403.15,"text":"做這件事情以上"},{"start":7403.15,"end":7405.15,"text":"好 因為這個我覺得已經不只是針對政治人物了"},{"start":7405.15,"end":7407.15,"text":"如果連我們一般的民眾"},{"start":7407.15,"end":7409.15,"text":"都會受到中國跨境的"},{"start":7409.15,"end":7411.15,"text":"這樣子指揮的"},{"start":7411.15,"end":7413.15,"text":"這個犯案的話 我覺得我們這個"},{"start":7413.15,"end":7415.15,"text":"修法真的要趕快開始進行 那我也會"},{"start":7415.15,"end":7417.15,"text":"提出版本 好 接下來跟"},{"start":7417.15,"end":7419.15,"text":"市長討論的是 這個新興"},{"start":7419.15,"end":7421.15,"text":"毒品一定要來防範"},{"start":7421.15,"end":7423.15,"text":"那現在我們發現很多新興"},{"start":7423.15,"end":7425.15,"text":"毒品它的源頭是來自中國"},{"start":7425.15,"end":7427.15,"text":"例如說伊托米紙"},{"start":7427.15,"end":7429.15,"text":"這個伊托米紙在台灣犯案的這個速度"},{"start":7429.15,"end":7431.15,"text":"真的是非常的快速 我們是"},{"start":7431.15,"end":7433.15,"text":"2023年發現第一個"},{"start":7433.15,"end":7435.15,"text":"第一個檢出第一起 當年就是發現22件"},{"start":7435.15,"end":7437.15,"text":"結果到去年的時候"},{"start":7437.15,"end":7439.15,"text":"已經檢出超過2萬件 所以這個犯案"},{"start":7439.15,"end":7441.15,"text":"的速度非常之快 那不只是"},{"start":7441.15,"end":7443.15,"text":"在台灣 其實整個東南亞都遇到這樣的狀況"},{"start":7443.15,"end":7445.15,"text":"我看聯合國它的這個毒品"},{"start":7445.15,"end":7447.15,"text":"犯罪的報告就指出說"},{"start":7447.15,"end":7449.15,"text":"伊托米紙是2021年在"},{"start":7449.15,"end":7451.15,"text":"中國第一次首度"},{"start":7451.15,"end":7453.15,"text":"查獲 然後開始就開始蔓延到"},{"start":7453.15,"end":7455.15,"text":"整個亞洲了 2023年"},{"start":7455.15,"end":7457.15,"text":"在香港跟台灣 我們開始檢出"},{"start":7457.15,"end":7459.15,"text":"然後2024年到柬埔在"},{"start":7459.15,"end":7461.15,"text":"印尼 馬來西亞 新加坡跟泰國"},{"start":7461.15,"end":7463.15,"text":"到了去年 2025年就"},{"start":7463.15,"end":7465.15,"text":"傳到了日本 然後今年在越南"},{"start":7465.15,"end":7467.15,"text":"首度查獲 所以這個是"},{"start":7467.15,"end":7469.15,"text":"源頭在中國 然後我看我們調查局"},{"start":7469.15,"end":7471.15,"text":"的報告也說 伊托米紙的這個"},{"start":7471.15,"end":7473.15,"text":"毒品的原料很多也是"},{"start":7473.15,"end":7475.15,"text":"來自中國 所以這個毒品"},{"start":7475.15,"end":7477.15,"text":"的跨境輸入也是"},{"start":7477.15,"end":7479.15,"text":"我們現在很嚴正要去面對一個問題"},{"start":7479.15,"end":7481.15,"text":"我們針對這個"},{"start":7482.37,"end":7484.37,"text":"毒品的跨境輸入目前"},{"start":7484.37,"end":7486.37,"text":"還有說甚至是跨境的這個犯罪"},{"start":7486.37,"end":7488.37,"text":"等等 目前法務部有什麼樣的這個"},{"start":7488.37,"end":7490.37,"text":"措施做 跟委員報告"},{"start":7490.37,"end":7492.37,"text":"就是說有關於伊托米紙的部分"},{"start":7492.37,"end":7494.37,"text":"它算是一種新興類型 但是"},{"start":7494.37,"end":7496.37,"text":"我們目前對這樣的一個毒品的"},{"start":7496.37,"end":7498.37,"text":"一個危害發現到說它蠻嚴重的"},{"start":7498.37,"end":7500.37,"text":"所以在6月27號的時候"},{"start":7500.37,"end":7502.37,"text":"它已經從原本的第二級的部分"},{"start":7502.37,"end":7504.37,"text":"經過我們毒品審議委員會把它"},{"start":7504.37,"end":7506.37,"text":"調整成第一級 所以在那個"},{"start":7506.37,"end":7508.37,"text":"行度上面就列入適用第一級的"},{"start":7508.37,"end":7510.37,"text":"一個毒品的犯罪 所以這個部分是"},{"start":7510.37,"end":7512.37,"text":"已經行度上拉得很高 那至於說"},{"start":7512.37,"end":7514.37,"text":"委員提到的是說在國際間"},{"start":7514.37,"end":7516.37,"text":"我們怎麼查緝 其實這要透過一些"},{"start":7516.37,"end":7518.37,"text":"國際合作 那我們跟警方調查局"},{"start":7518.37,"end":7520.37,"text":"在這一塊上 在高檢署"},{"start":7520.37,"end":7522.37,"text":"我們責定高檢署在這個六大"},{"start":7522.37,"end":7524.37,"text":"系統中的一個查緝中 阻絕"},{"start":7524.37,"end":7526.37,"text":"毒品進入我們台灣"},{"start":7526.37,"end":7528.37,"text":"這個部分是我們的首要的重點"},{"start":7528.37,"end":7530.37,"text":"那也跟委員報告說其實大家都很努力"},{"start":7530.37,"end":7532.37,"text":"我們最近在那個就是"},{"start":7532.37,"end":7534.37,"text":"跨國合作之中 我們在前一陣子"},{"start":7534.37,"end":7536.37,"text":"高雄院長跟這個部長"},{"start":7536.37,"end":7538.37,"text":"都有下去 他查到了1500"},{"start":7538.37,"end":7540.37,"text":"公斤 價值45億的Ketamine的部分"},{"start":7540.37,"end":7542.37,"text":"也是透過一個國際合作"},{"start":7542.37,"end":7544.37,"text":"我們會強力的去做這樣的"},{"start":7544.37,"end":7546.37,"text":"打擊 讓這樣的一個毒品"},{"start":7546.37,"end":7548.37,"text":"就是說能夠阻絕於"},{"start":7548.37,"end":7550.37,"text":"境外 然後我們不會讓我們的"},{"start":7550.37,"end":7552.37,"text":"國人受這樣的一個傷害"},{"start":7552.37,"end":7554.37,"text":"國際合作對防毒境外輸入"},{"start":7554.37,"end":7556.37,"text":"這個很重要 這個要持續進行"},{"start":7556.37,"end":7558.37,"text":"那最後我要提醒 因為新興"},{"start":7558.37,"end":7560.37,"text":"毒品除了E2Min質 現在又出現"},{"start":7560.37,"end":7562.37,"text":"一個叫做T-Litamine"},{"start":7562.37,"end":7564.37,"text":"一個動物的麻醉劑的一種"},{"start":7564.37,"end":7566.37,"text":"那這個真的很擔心 因為它也是"},{"start":7566.37,"end":7568.37,"text":"2024到2025的時候在中國發現的"},{"start":7568.37,"end":7570.37,"text":"然後濫用成長"},{"start":7570.37,"end":7572.37,"text":"馬上成長了三倍"},{"start":7572.37,"end":7574.37,"text":"我們現在很擔心會跟E2Min質"},{"start":7574.37,"end":7576.37,"text":"一樣的狀況傳到台灣來"},{"start":7576.37,"end":7578.37,"text":"但是目前我們還沒有納管"},{"start":7578.37,"end":7580.37,"text":"你們有沒有在研擬了"},{"start":7580.37,"end":7582.37,"text":"因為目前我們有注意到"},{"start":7582.37,"end":7584.37,"text":"這樣的一個新興的物質"},{"start":7584.37,"end":7586.37,"text":"我們這個部分會密切觀察"},{"start":7586.37,"end":7588.37,"text":"因為是不是就是說"},{"start":7588.37,"end":7590.37,"text":"有覺得說危害有擴大的時候"},{"start":7590.37,"end":7592.37,"text":"我們會請毒品危害防治條例去審"},{"start":7592.37,"end":7594.37,"text":"查說這要不要把它列入"},{"start":7594.37,"end":7596.37,"text":"那它有關於說像一些"},{"start":7596.37,"end":7598.37,"text":"我們現在的一個列入這樣毒品的部分"},{"start":7598.37,"end":7600.37,"text":"就是說它的考量點"},{"start":7600.37,"end":7602.37,"text":"第一它會跟國際的一個標準"},{"start":7602.37,"end":7604.37,"text":"假設國際間它有針對這個部分"},{"start":7604.37,"end":7606.37,"text":"列為毒品的話 我們會把它列進來"},{"start":7606.37,"end":7608.37,"text":"就是參考對岐國外"},{"start":7608.37,"end":7610.37,"text":"那第二個部分是說"},{"start":7610.37,"end":7612.37,"text":"我們的查緝單位裡面如果有已經發現說"},{"start":7612.37,"end":7614.37,"text":"有實際上的實務上"},{"start":7614.37,"end":7616.37,"text":"已經有這樣的一個現象 但我們沒有列管了"},{"start":7616.37,"end":7618.37,"text":"我們也會有一個預警機制把它提到"},{"start":7618.37,"end":7620.37,"text":"這個毒品審查委員會"},{"start":7620.37,"end":7622.37,"text":"大家委員來討論 然後要不要把它加入"},{"start":7622.37,"end":7624.37,"text":"那這個部分上我們有在密切注意"},{"start":7624.37,"end":7626.37,"text":"對 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"1月才會印出來"},{"start":9314.05,"end":9316.05,"text":"指引會有更細的資料"},{"start":9316.05,"end":9318.05,"text":"包含怎麼辨識毒品"},{"start":9318.05,"end":9320.05,"text":"包含怎麼去協助"},{"start":9320.05,"end":9322.05,"text":"引進資源包含流程"},{"start":9322.05,"end":9324.05,"text":"會有好幾個資料"},{"start":9324.05,"end":9326.05,"text":"10月會完成"},{"start":9326.05,"end":9328.05,"text":"1月會印出來"},{"start":9327.35,"end":9329.35,"text":"可以接受這樣的速度嗎"},{"start":9329.35,"end":9331.35,"text":"可不可以再快一點"},{"start":9331.06,"end":9333.06,"text":"我們再加速"},{"start":9333.06,"end":9335.06,"text":"我想這個如果10月能夠順利完成"},{"start":9335.06,"end":9337.06,"text":"我們確實應該馬上11月"},{"start":9337.06,"end":9339.06,"text":"就可以加速這一個來"},{"start":9339.06,"end":9341.06,"text":"對嘛"},{"start":9341.27,"end":9343.27,"text":"我無意刁難"},{"start":9343.27,"end":9345.27,"text":"10月完成為什麼要等1月才可以印"},{"start":9345.27,"end":9347.27,"text":"確實這個我們流程上我們再來"},{"start":9347.27,"end":9349.27,"text":"來補充"},{"start":9349.27,"end":9351.27,"text":"不好意思因為我有再補充"},{"start":9351.27,"end":9353.27,"text":"因為我們目前這個指引"},{"start":9353.27,"end":9355.27,"text":"跟我們的流程都是要帶"},{"start":9355.27,"end":9357.27,"text":"危害防治法它才會有個法院"},{"start":9357.27,"end":9359.27,"text":"因為它最後通過的一個版本"},{"start":9359.27,"end":9361.27,"text":"是什麼樣所以我們也要有留這個空間"},{"start":9361.27,"end":9363.27,"text":"來把這個起備"},{"start":9363.27,"end":9365.27,"text":"把這個法院都起備"},{"start":9365.27,"end":9367.27,"text":"來做這個一個"},{"start":9367.27,"end":9369.27,"text":"但是部分可以先透過這樣子的內容宣導嗎"},{"start":9369.88,"end":9371.88,"text":"那有疑慮的部分先保留"},{"start":9371.88,"end":9373.88,"text":"等他們通過嘛"},{"start":9373.88,"end":9375.88,"text":"因為你整個裡面不一定是全部都要等它"},{"start":9375.88,"end":9377.88,"text":"就行政上流程我們可以加強宣導"},{"start":9377.88,"end":9379.88,"text":"那等立法院通過"},{"start":9379.88,"end":9381.88,"text":"我們法院的依據就更清楚"},{"start":9381.88,"end":9383.88,"text":"剛剛一開始就提"},{"start":9383.88,"end":9385.88,"text":"國中高中職的主要"},{"start":9385.88,"end":9387.88,"text":"風險"},{"start":9387.88,"end":9389.88,"text":"剛剛有一個因為有跟法"},{"start":9389.88,"end":9391.88,"text":"有關那委員也提到這個"},{"start":9391.88,"end":9393.88,"text":"高中以下的可以做什麼"},{"start":9393.88,"end":9395.88,"text":"那我們馬上已經先做了"},{"start":9395.88,"end":9397.88,"text":"高中以下學校電子煙"},{"start":9397.88,"end":9399.88,"text":"這裡面有包含電子煙跟毒"},{"start":9399.88,"end":9401.88,"text":"怎麼處置的一個流程"},{"start":9401.88,"end":9403.88,"text":"毒那會後也會給委員"},{"start":9403.88,"end":9405.88,"text":"這就是現在在實施的"},{"start":9405.88,"end":9407.88,"text":"現在在實施了"},{"start":9407.88,"end":9409.88,"text":"那這就是我們要聽到的答案嘛"},{"start":9409.88,"end":9411.88,"text":"那這個部分我要跟大家講"},{"start":9412.96,"end":9414.96,"text":"國中跟高中職主要的風險場域"},{"start":9414.96,"end":9416.96,"text":"我們現在看到不管我剛剛所提到的"},{"start":9416.96,"end":9418.96,"text":"高中的一個案例跟國中"},{"start":9418.96,"end":9420.96,"text":"是逐年提升喔"},{"start":9421.46,"end":9423.46,"text":"逐年在提升喔"},{"start":9423.46,"end":9425.46,"text":"那增加的幅度非常明顯"},{"start":9425.46,"end":9427.46,"text":"教育部有沒有針對高中高職"},{"start":9427.46,"end":9429.46,"text":"夜間實習場域"},{"start":9429.46,"end":9431.46,"text":"校外活動建立專案的防治"},{"start":9432.92,"end":9433.42,"text":"有嗎"},{"start":9434.37,"end":9436.37,"text":"我們目前確實跟有一個"},{"start":9436.37,"end":9439.37,"text":"跨部會的合作跟這個警政署"},{"start":9439.37,"end":9441.37,"text":"還有校外會還有"},{"start":9441.37,"end":9443.37,"text":"醫療相關單位我們事實上都會"},{"start":9443.37,"end":9445.37,"text":"定期跟不定期的等到"},{"start":9445.37,"end":9447.37,"text":"9600多點"},{"start":9447.37,"end":9449.37,"text":"裡面我們會有去"},{"start":9449.37,"end":9451.37,"text":"做定期跟不定期的查訪"},{"start":9451.37,"end":9453.37,"text":"那我們針對這個學生"},{"start":9453.37,"end":9456.37,"text":"有接觸毒品的許多的這些"},{"start":9456.37,"end":9458.37,"text":"不同教育階段裡面"},{"start":9458.37,"end":9460.37,"text":"他們也已經做了一些理解"},{"start":9460.37,"end":9462.37,"text":"然後提出看能不能有一些"},{"start":9462.37,"end":9464.37,"text":"更好的一個協助的一些方案"},{"start":9464.37,"end":9466.37,"text":"我們還是希望要有一個"},{"start":9466.37,"end":9468.37,"text":"專案防治的一個計畫"},{"start":9468.37,"end":9470.37,"text":"因為這些熱點還有這些"},{"start":9470.37,"end":9472.37,"text":"樂趣我們應該要知道喔"},{"start":9472.37,"end":9474.37,"text":"那在這些不管是"},{"start":9474.37,"end":9476.37,"text":"吸食持有販售製造"},{"start":9476.37,"end":9478.37,"text":"剛剛所提到的案例"},{"start":9478.37,"end":9480.37,"text":"每一件都可能擴大影響"},{"start":9480.37,"end":9482.37,"text":"所以學校發生學生"},{"start":9482.37,"end":9484.37,"text":"在涉嫌吸食"},{"start":9484.37,"end":9486.37,"text":"持有販售"},{"start":9486.37,"end":9488.37,"text":"然後是否有機制追查上游的來源"},{"start":9488.37,"end":9490.37,"text":"阻斷同儕的一個擴散"},{"start":9490.37,"end":9494.37,"text":"同步保護可能被引誘或脅迫的一個學生"},{"start":9494.37,"end":9496.37,"text":"在學校端你們有沒有一個指引"},{"start":9496.37,"end":9498.37,"text":"有沒有一個介入"},{"start":9498.37,"end":9500.37,"text":"而不是就是說啊我就報警"},{"start":9502.01,"end":9504.01,"text":"跟委員報告喔"},{"start":9504.01,"end":9506.01,"text":"我們目前確實如果是在"},{"start":9506.01,"end":9508.01,"text":"有發生學生可能有這樣的一個情形"},{"start":9508.01,"end":9510.01,"text":"會透過老師來透過輔導的一個歷程"},{"start":9510.01,"end":9512.01,"text":"可能會知道一些訊息"},{"start":9512.01,"end":9514.01,"text":"就會提供給警察來做相關的一個溯源"},{"start":9514.01,"end":9516.01,"text":"那這個部分的前提都要"},{"start":9516.01,"end":9518.01,"text":"保障學生的一個安全"},{"start":9518.01,"end":9520.01,"text":"沒有錯啦當然也要保障"},{"start":9520.01,"end":9522.01,"text":"老師的安全喔"},{"start":9522.01,"end":9524.01,"text":"有一些機制讓他們"},{"start":9524.01,"end":9526.01,"text":"來做指引讓老師"},{"start":9526.01,"end":9528.01,"text":"或學校有所依據"},{"start":9528.01,"end":9530.01,"text":"這個是我們的一直在強調"},{"start":9530.01,"end":9532.01,"text":"要拜託的啦"},{"start":9532.01,"end":9534.01,"text":"教委一直在上個會期"},{"start":9534.01,"end":9536.01,"text":"就一直提醒事實上"},{"start":9536.01,"end":9538.01,"text":"教育部以來一直都有各級學校"},{"start":9538.01,"end":9540.01,"text":"特定人員相關的不管是尿篩"},{"start":9540.01,"end":9542.01,"text":"輔導的作業這裡面有提到了"},{"start":9542.01,"end":9544.01,"text":"大概12點的"},{"start":9544.01,"end":9546.01,"text":"甚至有一些業務怎麼操作"},{"start":9546.01,"end":9548.01,"text":"尿篩怎麼進行那附件裡面"},{"start":9548.01,"end":9550.01,"text":"也提到了特定人員怎麼評估的"},{"start":9550.01,"end":9552.01,"text":"12點行為太陽的依據等等"},{"start":9552.01,"end":9554.01,"text":"像這些大概都給學校有一個指引"},{"start":9554.01,"end":9556.01,"text":"謝謝我想部長"},{"start":9556.01,"end":9558.01,"text":"很多老師啊"},{"start":9558.01,"end":9560.01,"text":"其實我們都有看過"},{"start":9560.01,"end":9562.01,"text":"老師可能教完課以後就現場在學校"},{"start":9562.01,"end":9564.01,"text":"在課桌椅"},{"start":9564.01,"end":9566.01,"text":"教室就批改作業"},{"start":9567.21,"end":9569.21,"text":"現在不是"},{"start":9569.21,"end":9571.21,"text":"現在是下了課以後"},{"start":9571.21,"end":9573.21,"text":"老師如果沒課了"},{"start":9573.21,"end":9575.21,"text":"那行政作業也完成了"},{"start":9575.21,"end":9577.21,"text":"基本上要下班了也不願意逗留"},{"start":9577.21,"end":9579.21,"text":"趕快回家"},{"start":9577.22,"end":9579.22,"text":"因為很害怕看到不該看的"},{"start":9580.17,"end":9582.17,"text":"看到學生起衝突"},{"start":9582.3,"end":9584.3,"text":"看到有可能有吸食的一個儀式"},{"start":9585.86,"end":9587.86,"text":"他不知道怎麼處理啊"},{"start":9588.37,"end":9590.37,"text":"他不知道該不該管了"},{"start":9590.43,"end":9592.43,"text":"所以讓老師有所依據"},{"start":9592.43,"end":9596.43,"text":"讓老師能夠保障他該有的權利"},{"start":9596.98,"end":9598.98,"text":"那老師才不會出現防疫性教學"},{"start":9598.98,"end":9600.98,"text":"這我們一直在講"},{"start":9600.98,"end":9602.98,"text":"包括我們現在講"},{"start":9602.98,"end":9604.98,"text":"校事會議"},{"start":9604.98,"end":9606.98,"text":"你要去第三板"},{"start":9606.98,"end":9608.98,"text":"校事會議第三板"},{"start":9608.98,"end":9610.98,"text":"各個學校處理"},{"start":9610.98,"end":9612.98,"text":"校園團體"},{"start":9612.98,"end":9614.98,"text":"等於說我們六班以上"},{"start":9614.98,"end":9616.98,"text":"我們就確保兩位校安人員"},{"start":9616.98,"end":9618.98,"text":"有任何的老師"},{"start":9618.98,"end":9620.98,"text":"校園馬上他就能夠"},{"start":9620.98,"end":9622.98,"text":"第一線上兩位校人"},{"start":9622.98,"end":9624.98,"text":"你有聽到他那一層聲音嗎"},{"start":9625.93,"end":9627.93,"text":"有嗎"},{"start":9626.87,"end":9628.87,"text":"學校的老師"},{"start":9628.87,"end":9630.87,"text":"我想我也很清楚"},{"start":9630.87,"end":9632.87,"text":"我一直保持非常開放的態度"},{"start":9632.87,"end":9634.87,"text":"然後也有機會有時間"},{"start":9634.87,"end":9636.87,"text":"就跟地方的老師各團體"},{"start":9636.87,"end":9638.87,"text":"聽他們意見"},{"start":9638.87,"end":9640.87,"text":"看怎麼樣台灣的教育能夠"},{"start":9640.87,"end":9642.87,"text":"那你有沒有聽到"},{"start":9642.87,"end":9644.87,"text":"你的校事會議第三板出來以後"},{"start":9644.87,"end":9646.87,"text":"他們各方的意見"},{"start":9646.87,"end":9648.87,"text":"他們還開了記者會抨擊"},{"start":9648.87,"end":9650.87,"text":"你有聽到嗎"},{"start":9650.87,"end":9652.87,"text":"我想他們的意見"},{"start":9652.87,"end":9654.87,"text":"我充分理解"},{"start":9654.87,"end":9656.87,"text":"但是以現階段"},{"start":9656.87,"end":9658.87,"text":"也感謝委員在這一個"},{"start":9658.87,"end":9660.87,"text":"教文會裡邊的主持"},{"start":9660.87,"end":9662.87,"text":"我們事實上校事會議在1月"},{"start":9662.87,"end":9664.87,"text":"通過以後"},{"start":9664.87,"end":9666.87,"text":"我們的這一個被投訴的案件"},{"start":9666.87,"end":9668.87,"text":"已經下降了"},{"start":9668.87,"end":9670.87,"text":"這句話我聽你講過一次了"},{"start":9670.87,"end":9672.87,"text":"不要這樣"},{"start":9672.87,"end":9674.87,"text":"不要這樣來說"},{"start":9674.87,"end":9676.87,"text":"我的目標委陳姬在立法院說"},{"start":9676.91,"end":9678.91,"text":"把這一個校事會取消"},{"start":9678.91,"end":9680.91,"text":"這是我的"},{"start":9680.91,"end":9682.91,"text":"終極的一個目的"},{"start":9682.91,"end":9684.91,"text":"我希望學校是安全"},{"start":9684.91,"end":9686.91,"text":"能夠支持老師"},{"start":9686.91,"end":9688.91,"text":"能夠專心的教書"},{"start":9688.91,"end":9690.91,"text":"能夠讓家長也放心"},{"start":9690.91,"end":9692.91,"text":"學生也能夠有更好的學習品質"},{"start":9692.91,"end":9694.91,"text":"這是大家共同"},{"start":9694.91,"end":9696.91,"text":"無意提到政黨"},{"start":9696.91,"end":9698.91,"text":"但是執政黨也說"},{"start":9698.91,"end":9700.91,"text":"廢書監察院是他們的目標"},{"start":9700.91,"end":9702.91,"text":"到現在也沒廢"},{"start":9702.18,"end":9704.18,"text":"但我要講的是說"},{"start":9704.18,"end":9706.18,"text":"講這些好聽話"},{"start":9706.18,"end":9708.18,"text":"我們現在看到"},{"start":9708.18,"end":9710.18,"text":"現在校園對於校事會議"},{"start":9710.18,"end":9712.18,"text":"的不滿意"},{"start":9712.18,"end":9714.18,"text":"或者一些不當的處置"},{"start":9714.18,"end":9716.18,"text":"我想家長團體"},{"start":9716.18,"end":9718.18,"text":"確實他們也"},{"start":9718.18,"end":9720.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text":"我不會只有傾聽一次"},{"start":9923.74,"end":9925.74,"text":"我有時間跟委員報告"},{"start":9925.74,"end":9927.74,"text":"我還不只特定團體"},{"start":9927.74,"end":9929.74,"text":"我還全國各地方政府"},{"start":9929.74,"end":9931.74,"text":"的這個台灣老師群體"},{"start":9931.74,"end":9933.74,"text":"但是你會不會繼續微調"},{"start":9933.74,"end":9935.74,"text":"當然,如果有"},{"start":9935.74,"end":9937.74,"text":"能夠有更精進的一個方法"},{"start":9937.74,"end":9939.74,"text":"合理可行,有價值的"},{"start":9939.74,"end":9941.74,"text":"我們會再持續收集更多意見"},{"start":9941.74,"end":9943.74,"text":"來轉交給教育部"},{"start":9943.74,"end":9945.74,"text":"也會給洪署長"},{"start":9945.74,"end":9947.74,"text":"希望說這部分你一定要廣納"},{"start":9947.74,"end":9949.74,"text":"在十月底的時候不要讓大家失望"},{"start":9949.74,"end":9951.74,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":9952.31,"end":9954.31,"text":"那個部長"},{"start":9954.31,"end":9956.31,"text":"那個校事會議的問題還是要說明清楚一點"},{"start":9956.31,"end":9958.31,"text":"譬如說合理管教"},{"start":9958.31,"end":9960.31,"text":"因為你們現在是用大安小安"},{"start":9960.31,"end":9962.31,"text":"是用合理管教來分嘛,什麼叫合理管教"},{"start":9962.31,"end":9964.31,"text":"這是大家的一個疑問啦"},{"start":9964.31,"end":9966.31,"text":"所以我覺得還是要具體一點"},{"start":9966.31,"end":9968.31,"text":"對對對,要更明確"},{"start":9968.31,"end":9970.31,"text":"還有剛剛那個羅天維的一些疑問"},{"start":9970.31,"end":9972.31,"text":"再把資料提供給"},{"start":9974.24,"end":9976.24,"text":"委員"},{"start":10177.12,"end":10179.12,"text":"好,現在開始"},{"start":10179.53,"end":10181.53,"text":"下一位,有請楊瓊瑛委員"},{"start":10189.86,"end":10191.86,"text":"謝謝主席楊瓊瑛發言"},{"start":10191.86,"end":10193.86,"text":"首先來邀請部長"},{"start":10200.22,"end":10202.22,"text":"委員好"},{"start":10230.22,"end":10232.22,"text":"現在我們正在推動校園毒品防治"},{"start":10232.22,"end":10234.22,"text":"你是要以宣傳為主"},{"start":10234.22,"end":10236.22,"text":"還是要建構一套"},{"start":10236.22,"end":10238.22,"text":"能夠及早發現"},{"start":10238.22,"end":10240.22,"text":"及時介入"},{"start":10240.22,"end":10242.22,"text":"持續追蹤的完整制度呢"},{"start":10242.22,"end":10244.22,"text":"請做說明"},{"start":10251.48,"end":10253.48,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":10253.48,"end":10255.48,"text":"確實我們當然不是只是發現"},{"start":10255.48,"end":10257.48,"text":"陳主委剛才在跟委員會報告裡邊"},{"start":10257.48,"end":10259.48,"text":"我們事實上因應配合行政院"},{"start":10259.48,"end":10261.48,"text":"新世代的反毒策略行動綱領裡邊"},{"start":10261.48,"end":10263.48,"text":"我們有這個緊扣"},{"start":10263.48,"end":10265.48,"text":"四個主要的工作主軸"},{"start":10265.48,"end":10267.48,"text":"也就是說從辨識"},{"start":10267.48,"end":10269.48,"text":"然後到阻斷來源"},{"start":10269.48,"end":10271.48,"text":"到即時處理到精準的輔導"},{"start":10271.48,"end":10273.48,"text":"所以它整個系統性"},{"start":10273.48,"end":10275.48,"text":"好,非常好"},{"start":10275.48,"end":10277.48,"text":"所以我們不是只有宣導"},{"start":10277.48,"end":10279.48,"text":"而是要有動作"},{"start":10279.48,"end":10281.48,"text":"有程序"},{"start":10281.48,"end":10283.48,"text":"而且要輔助"},{"start":10283.48,"end":10285.48,"text":"還要追蹤"},{"start":10285.48,"end":10287.48,"text":"那所以請教現在"},{"start":10287.48,"end":10289.48,"text":"你們要推動一個"},{"start":10289.48,"end":10291.48,"text":"也就是疑似接觸毒品"},{"start":10291.48,"end":10293.48,"text":"或者是具有高風險情況的學生"},{"start":10293.48,"end":10295.48,"text":"辦理特定人員的認定"},{"start":10295.48,"end":10297.48,"text":"妙意篩檢"},{"start":10297.48,"end":10299.48,"text":"以及後續的輔導"},{"start":10299.48,"end":10301.48,"text":"那你們也表示"},{"start":10301.48,"end":10303.48,"text":"你們在研議"},{"start":10303.48,"end":10305.48,"text":"你研議了用拓意來篩檢"},{"start":10305.48,"end":10307.48,"text":"納入早期風險辨識的"},{"start":10307.48,"end":10309.48,"text":"輔助工具"},{"start":10310.21,"end":10312.21,"text":"但是我們也了解拓意的篩檢"},{"start":10312.21,"end":10314.21,"text":"不能直接去取代"},{"start":10314.21,"end":10316.21,"text":"後續"},{"start":10316.21,"end":10318.21,"text":"後續依法辦理的確認程序"},{"start":10318.21,"end":10320.21,"text":"這個單一是沒有辦法去確認"},{"start":10320.21,"end":10322.21,"text":"所以請教部長"},{"start":10322.21,"end":10324.21,"text":"第一個"},{"start":10324.21,"end":10326.21,"text":"我們目前你們既然有"},{"start":10326.21,"end":10328.21,"text":"這樣的方向"},{"start":10328.21,"end":10330.21,"text":"那麼目前多少學生是列為"},{"start":10330.21,"end":10332.21,"text":"特定人員"},{"start":10332.21,"end":10334.21,"text":"那你每一年要實際篩選的"},{"start":10334.21,"end":10336.21,"text":"有多少人"},{"start":10336.21,"end":10338.21,"text":"那初篩是陽性"},{"start":10338.21,"end":10340.21,"text":"但是如果真正認定確認陽性的"},{"start":10340.21,"end":10342.21,"text":"跟他後續的輔導"},{"start":10342.21,"end":10344.21,"text":"這些人數你們預估"},{"start":10344.21,"end":10346.21,"text":"大概會有多少人"},{"start":10346.21,"end":10348.21,"text":"而且第二個"},{"start":10348.21,"end":10350.21,"text":"新興毒品的部分"},{"start":10350.21,"end":10352.21,"text":"現在篩檢的工具能不能"},{"start":10352.21,"end":10354.21,"text":"去符合 隱合"},{"start":10354.21,"end":10356.21,"text":"現在新興毒品的"},{"start":10356.21,"end":10358.21,"text":"這個樣態的一個辨識"},{"start":10358.21,"end":10360.21,"text":"那如果學生已經接受到"},{"start":10360.21,"end":10362.21,"text":"這個新興毒品"},{"start":10362.21,"end":10364.21,"text":"但是我們現在的篩檢方式"},{"start":10364.21,"end":10366.21,"text":"並沒有辦法篩出來的時候"},{"start":10366.21,"end":10368.21,"text":"我們也沒有達到我們所要的"},{"start":10368.21,"end":10370.21,"text":"這個目標"},{"start":10370.21,"end":10372.21,"text":"也就是補強的強制措施"},{"start":10372.21,"end":10374.21,"text":"還有一個"},{"start":10374.21,"end":10376.21,"text":"也就是你現在"},{"start":10376.21,"end":10378.21,"text":"託一言這個要篩檢的部分"},{"start":10378.21,"end":10380.21,"text":"你的進度"},{"start":10380.21,"end":10382.21,"text":"到底在哪裡"},{"start":10382.21,"end":10384.21,"text":"也就是說你的對象"},{"start":10384.17,"end":10386.17,"text":"檢驗的標準的確認性"},{"start":10386.17,"end":10388.17,"text":"確認陽性之後"},{"start":10388.17,"end":10390.17,"text":"那麼以及"},{"start":10390.17,"end":10392.17,"text":"我們要怎樣去把它真正確認"},{"start":10392.17,"end":10394.17,"text":"還有保障學生的一個"},{"start":10394.17,"end":10396.17,"text":"權利"},{"start":10396.17,"end":10398.17,"text":"在你們規劃的這個制度裡頭"},{"start":10398.17,"end":10400.17,"text":"有沒有納入本席剛剛所說的"},{"start":10400.17,"end":10402.17,"text":"這些項目"},{"start":10402.17,"end":10404.17,"text":"請說說明"},{"start":10404.17,"end":10406.17,"text":"謝謝委員提醒的關心學生"},{"start":10406.17,"end":10408.17,"text":"的校園毒品的一個防治"},{"start":10408.17,"end":10410.17,"text":"確實我們在這一個部分"},{"start":10410.17,"end":10412.17,"text":"因為以目前的一個做法"},{"start":10412.17,"end":10414.17,"text":"規定是針對我們"},{"start":10414.17,"end":10416.17,"text":"這個高風險的這些學生"},{"start":10416.17,"end":10418.17,"text":"大概全國大概"},{"start":10418.17,"end":10420.17,"text":"有八千位"},{"start":10420.17,"end":10422.17,"text":"所以我們過去的一個是"},{"start":10422.17,"end":10424.17,"text":"用這個尿液篩檢"},{"start":10424.17,"end":10426.17,"text":"尿液篩檢它就個人的"},{"start":10426.17,"end":10428.17,"text":"隱私包括學生的"},{"start":10428.17,"end":10430.17,"text":"去標籤化相當程度"},{"start":10430.17,"end":10432.17,"text":"它還是比較"},{"start":10432.17,"end":10434.17,"text":"等於說相對於這個"},{"start":10434.17,"end":10436.17,"text":"唾液它還是比較大一點"},{"start":10436.17,"end":10438.17,"text":"所以我們因為從"},{"start":10438.17,"end":10440.17,"text":"警政署的一個"},{"start":10440.17,"end":10442.17,"text":"防毒查毒的這樣的一個"},{"start":10442.17,"end":10444.17,"text":"經驗"},{"start":10444.17,"end":10446.17,"text":"唾液篩檢它確實"},{"start":10446.17,"end":10448.17,"text":"更方便而且更能夠"},{"start":10448.17,"end":10450.17,"text":"快速的了解這一個"},{"start":10450.17,"end":10452.17,"text":"對"},{"start":10452.17,"end":10454.17,"text":"是否吸食毒品的一個辨識"},{"start":10454.17,"end":10456.17,"text":"所以剛才我也跟其他"},{"start":10456.17,"end":10458.17,"text":"委員要請委員一樣的"},{"start":10458.17,"end":10460.17,"text":"要拜託委員來支持我們"},{"start":10460.17,"end":10462.17,"text":"一號防治法已經在立法院二讀"},{"start":10462.17,"end":10464.17,"text":"如果通過以後"},{"start":10464.17,"end":10466.17,"text":"我們也感謝這個警政"},{"start":10466.17,"end":10468.17,"text":"署的協助我們用共同採購"},{"start":10468.17,"end":10470.17,"text":"這個我們目前是"},{"start":10470.17,"end":10472.17,"text":"以這個所謂的"},{"start":10472.17,"end":10474.17,"text":"高風險設定"},{"start":10474.17,"end":10476.17,"text":"8000劑"},{"start":10476.17,"end":10478.17,"text":"但是如果"},{"start":10478.17,"end":10480.17,"text":"是"},{"start":10480.17,"end":10482.17,"text":"那如果各地方縣市"},{"start":10482.17,"end":10484.17,"text":"教育局處學校需要"},{"start":10484.17,"end":10486.17,"text":"我想我們會天購然後"},{"start":10486.17,"end":10488.17,"text":"來怎麼樣中央跟地方"},{"start":10488.17,"end":10490.17,"text":"協助"},{"start":10490.17,"end":10492.17,"text":"什麼叫高風險什麼叫"},{"start":10492.17,"end":10494.17,"text":"特定"},{"start":10494.17,"end":10496.17,"text":"等於你這8000多個怎麼樣"},{"start":10496.17,"end":10498.17,"text":"有經驗他曾經有"},{"start":10498.17,"end":10500.17,"text":"吸毒記錄的這樣的"},{"start":10500.17,"end":10502.17,"text":"這樣的"},{"start":10502.08,"end":10504.08,"text":"沒有"},{"start":10503.92,"end":10505.92,"text":"高風險特定人員"},{"start":10505.92,"end":10507.92,"text":"的界定是什麼"},{"start":10507.92,"end":10509.92,"text":"布達你的說明不清楚"},{"start":10509.92,"end":10511.92,"text":"跟委員報告就是我們的"},{"start":10511.92,"end":10513.92,"text":"特定人員的體力有五大類"},{"start":10513.92,"end":10515.92,"text":"扣除是那個駕駛"},{"start":10515.92,"end":10517.92,"text":"的部分是成員的部分"},{"start":10517.92,"end":10519.92,"text":"有四類是學生的那其中"},{"start":10519.92,"end":10521.92,"text":"就是包含曾經有"},{"start":10521.92,"end":10523.92,"text":"就是違反獨立條例曾經"},{"start":10523.92,"end":10525.92,"text":"用過毒品的這種學生"},{"start":10525.92,"end":10527.92,"text":"會持續的關懷"},{"start":10527.92,"end":10529.92,"text":"持續的在篩檢"},{"start":10529.92,"end":10531.92,"text":"因為怕他再犯那另外"},{"start":10531.92,"end":10533.92,"text":"針對我們從具體的一些行為"},{"start":10533.92,"end":10535.92,"text":"觀察學生可能有"},{"start":10535.92,"end":10537.92,"text":"使用毒品那我們就把他提列"},{"start":10537.92,"end":10539.92,"text":"為特定人員或是中錯"},{"start":10539.92,"end":10541.92,"text":"的這種學生他有一些具"},{"start":10541.92,"end":10543.92,"text":"體的一個行為也是有學校提列嗎"},{"start":10543.92,"end":10545.92,"text":"對有學校提列"},{"start":10545.92,"end":10547.92,"text":"所以這是8類由學校來"},{"start":10547.92,"end":10549.92,"text":"提列所以部長"},{"start":10549.92,"end":10551.92,"text":"我們希望這個規劃"},{"start":10551.92,"end":10553.92,"text":"要完成因為我們篩檢"},{"start":10553.92,"end":10555.92,"text":"真正的目的是讓我們"},{"start":10555.92,"end":10557.92,"text":"能夠及早發現風險"},{"start":10557.92,"end":10559.92,"text":"而且避免學生從"},{"start":10559.92,"end":10561.92,"text":"偶然的接觸"},{"start":10561.92,"end":10563.92,"text":"走向反覆施用"},{"start":10563.92,"end":10565.92,"text":"最後成為成癮的"},{"start":10565.92,"end":10567.92,"text":"這個問題我們一定要把關"},{"start":10567.92,"end":10569.92,"text":"我們的做法就是委員"},{"start":10569.92,"end":10571.92,"text":"所這個關心的"},{"start":10571.92,"end":10573.92,"text":"我們現在就只是從"},{"start":10573.92,"end":10575.92,"text":"這個角度"},{"start":10577.29,"end":10579.29,"text":"好謝謝委員"},{"start":10579.79,"end":10581.79,"text":"請回座"},{"start":10584.66,"end":10586.66,"text":"下一位有請"},{"start":10586.66,"end":10588.66,"text":"葉元之召偉"},{"start":10594.52,"end":10596.52,"text":"主席好我們請鄭部長"},{"start":10596.65,"end":10598.65,"text":"有請部長"},{"start":10601.75,"end":10603.75,"text":"部長好"},{"start":10603.75,"end":10605.75,"text":"現在因為新興毒品的問題"},{"start":10605.75,"end":10607.75,"text":"校園防毒議題當然越來越"},{"start":10607.75,"end":10609.75,"text":"重要"},{"start":10609.75,"end":10611.75,"text":"我是蠻遺憾的剛剛巫師耀委員"},{"start":10611.75,"end":10613.75,"text":"居然指控說教育文化委員會"},{"start":10613.75,"end":10615.75,"text":"什麼搞政治"},{"start":10615.75,"end":10617.75,"text":"攻防然後造謠"},{"start":10617.75,"end":10619.75,"text":"什麼我非常遺憾"},{"start":10619.75,"end":10621.75,"text":"今天為什麼很多人會提到沈柏楊文章"},{"start":10621.75,"end":10623.75,"text":"就是因為現在他的"},{"start":10623.75,"end":10625.75,"text":"討論度高然後他之前的文章"},{"start":10625.75,"end":10627.75,"text":"被翻出來那他過去的"},{"start":10627.75,"end":10629.75,"text":"文章的主張就是"},{"start":10629.75,"end":10631.75,"text":"覺得校園篩檢是一個很"},{"start":10631.75,"end":10633.75,"text":"噁爛的行為嗎那部長"},{"start":10633.75,"end":10635.75,"text":"你會覺得校園篩檢很噁爛嗎"},{"start":10636.71,"end":10638.71,"text":"你會覺得很噁爛嗎"},{"start":10638.71,"end":10640.71,"text":"我想從教育的觀點我們當然希望"},{"start":10640.71,"end":10642.71,"text":"學生能夠遠離毒品"},{"start":10642.71,"end":10644.71,"text":"當然嘛對"},{"start":10645.22,"end":10647.22,"text":"因為他現在"},{"start":10646.97,"end":10648.97,"text":"引起話題討論"},{"start":10648.97,"end":10650.97,"text":"大家會覺得說是不是校園不能篩檢"},{"start":10650.97,"end":10652.97,"text":"對不對所以當然也"},{"start":10652.97,"end":10654.97,"text":"需要部長以正視聽"},{"start":10654.97,"end":10656.97,"text":"校園為什麼要篩檢因為"},{"start":10656.97,"end":10658.97,"text":"當我們在演出有同學有"},{"start":10658.97,"end":10660.97,"text":"吸毒那我們要幫助他"},{"start":10660.97,"end":10662.97,"text":"然後譬如說鐵拳教育也有演"},{"start":10662.97,"end":10664.97,"text":"有的學生他就被毒品控制"},{"start":10664.97,"end":10666.97,"text":"本來成績很好後來"},{"start":10666.97,"end":10668.97,"text":"成績一落千丈然後甚至於要"},{"start":10668.97,"end":10670.97,"text":"一直跟家人要錢"},{"start":10670.97,"end":10672.97,"text":"也造成經濟的問題主要就是"},{"start":10672.97,"end":10674.97,"text":"論點就是說他到底"},{"start":10674.97,"end":10676.97,"text":"是要用普篩還是"},{"start":10676.97,"end":10678.97,"text":"他是認為都不能篩我們來看一下他的"},{"start":10678.97,"end":10680.97,"text":"文章嘛對不對你聽我講"},{"start":10680.97,"end":10682.97,"text":"聽我講"},{"start":10682.97,"end":10684.97,"text":"比如說他的文章一開始就是"},{"start":10684.97,"end":10686.97,"text":"在罵新北市教育局"},{"start":10686.97,"end":10688.97,"text":"他說新北市教育局提案"},{"start":10688.97,"end":10690.97,"text":"說要針對學生健康檢查"},{"start":10690.97,"end":10692.97,"text":"的時候增加"},{"start":10692.97,"end":10694.97,"text":"尿篩毒品項目"},{"start":10694.97,"end":10696.97,"text":"當然這是普篩"},{"start":10696.97,"end":10698.97,"text":"但他不是針對普篩而已"},{"start":10698.97,"end":10700.97,"text":"他是針對下面劃線部分"},{"start":10700.97,"end":10702.97,"text":"他說讓人手心發汗"},{"start":10702.97,"end":10704.97,"text":"這是新北市這陣子一連串的政策"},{"start":10704.97,"end":10706.97,"text":"比如說有什麼"},{"start":10706.97,"end":10708.97,"text":"配置胰氧化碳檢測機"},{"start":10708.97,"end":10710.97,"text":"還有針對有疑慮者做檢測"},{"start":10713.48,"end":10715.48,"text":"你現在不就是針對有疑慮者做檢測嗎"},{"start":10715.48,"end":10717.48,"text":"剛剛講的就是"},{"start":10717.48,"end":10719.48,"text":"說什麼高風險啊這些就是"},{"start":10719.48,"end":10721.48,"text":"有疑慮者啊所以針對"},{"start":10721.48,"end":10723.48,"text":"有疑慮者做檢測都是"},{"start":10723.48,"end":10725.48,"text":"讓他覺得手心發汗"},{"start":10727.36,"end":10729.36,"text":"這就是他的看法"},{"start":10729.36,"end":10731.36,"text":"校園不能篩檢"},{"start":10731.36,"end":10733.36,"text":"因為校園篩檢就是手心發汗"},{"start":10733.36,"end":10735.36,"text":"然後再者我們後面"},{"start":10735.36,"end":10737.36,"text":"因為我們也不要去脈絡化"},{"start":10737.36,"end":10739.36,"text":"他講說毒品問題可以怎麼做"},{"start":10739.36,"end":10741.36,"text":"ABC A毒品非法化"},{"start":10741.36,"end":10743.36,"text":"抓起來編就對了"},{"start":10743.36,"end":10745.36,"text":"B將毒品除罪化"},{"start":10745.36,"end":10747.36,"text":"對有毒癮者與以協助"},{"start":10747.36,"end":10749.36,"text":"C尋找吸毒的社會原因"},{"start":10749.36,"end":10751.36,"text":"減少吸毒的個人動機"},{"start":10751.36,"end":10753.36,"text":"然後與以協助"},{"start":10753.36,"end":10755.36,"text":"他把做法分成ABC"},{"start":10755.36,"end":10757.36,"text":"但是ABC有的根本沒衝突啊"},{"start":10757.36,"end":10759.36,"text":"譬如說A的部分"},{"start":10759.36,"end":10761.36,"text":"毒品非法化你也是可以"},{"start":10761.36,"end":10763.36,"text":"針對有毒癮者與以協助啊"},{"start":10763.36,"end":10765.36,"text":"對毒品管制啊"},{"start":10765.36,"end":10767.36,"text":"減少吸毒的個人動機啊"},{"start":10767.36,"end":10769.36,"text":"所以先做一個很奇怪的三分法"},{"start":10769.36,"end":10771.36,"text":"然後用排除的方式"},{"start":10771.36,"end":10773.36,"text":"然後去選擇他要做的事情"},{"start":10773.36,"end":10775.36,"text":"我也是覺得很奇怪啊"},{"start":10775.36,"end":10777.36,"text":"然後他就講說A政策就是"},{"start":10777.36,"end":10779.36,"text":"最差勁的政策"},{"start":10779.36,"end":10781.36,"text":"那就直接就講說"},{"start":10781.36,"end":10783.36,"text":"新北市就是要毒品非法化"},{"start":10783.36,"end":10785.36,"text":"然後抓起來編"},{"start":10785.36,"end":10787.36,"text":"但人家新北市要求篩檢"},{"start":10787.36,"end":10789.36,"text":"不是說只是抓起來編好不好"},{"start":10789.36,"end":10791.36,"text":"新北市說要篩檢的目的"},{"start":10791.36,"end":10793.36,"text":"當然就是要給毒癮者與以協助啊"},{"start":10793.36,"end":10795.36,"text":"也要減少個人吸毒動機啊"},{"start":10795.36,"end":10797.36,"text":"所以先貼標籤"},{"start":10797.36,"end":10799.36,"text":"再亂罵一通"},{"start":10799.36,"end":10801.36,"text":"然後讓在教育現場的人提出這個辦法"},{"start":10801.36,"end":10803.36,"text":"然後好像就覺得"},{"start":10803.36,"end":10805.36,"text":"好像很不應該"},{"start":10805.36,"end":10807.36,"text":"沒有嘛我覺得"},{"start":10807.36,"end":10809.36,"text":"這樣對當時新北市教育局"},{"start":10809.36,"end":10811.36,"text":"其實那時候也是希望能夠減少"},{"start":10811.36,"end":10813.36,"text":"重點是要幫助學生"},{"start":10813.36,"end":10815.36,"text":"怎麼會被貼標籤說"},{"start":10815.36,"end":10817.36,"text":"很差勁啊很噁爛"},{"start":10817.34,"end":10819.34,"text":"那我想問"},{"start":10819.34,"end":10821.34,"text":"我想問部長"},{"start":10821.34,"end":10823.34,"text":"我想問部長"},{"start":10823.34,"end":10825.34,"text":"現在如果"},{"start":10825.34,"end":10827.34,"text":"學校有針對那個"},{"start":10827.34,"end":10829.34,"text":"高風險者篩檢然後發現問題了"},{"start":10829.34,"end":10831.34,"text":"有沒有給你協助有吧"},{"start":10831.34,"end":10833.34,"text":"有"},{"start":10833.14,"end":10835.14,"text":"啊有沒有要罰他們"},{"start":10835.75,"end":10837.75,"text":"國中有沒有"},{"start":10837.75,"end":10839.75,"text":"我目前就教育的觀點我並不是用來"},{"start":10839.75,"end":10841.75,"text":"這一個指揮"},{"start":10841.75,"end":10843.75,"text":"就是嘛所以當時新北市教育局"},{"start":10843.75,"end":10845.75,"text":"也不是說要抓起來罰人家"},{"start":10845.75,"end":10847.75,"text":"是要幫助他們嘛"},{"start":10848.14,"end":10850.14,"text":"所以這樣的觀點現在這個人要選市長"},{"start":10850.14,"end":10852.14,"text":"當然大家會怕啊"},{"start":10852.14,"end":10854.14,"text":"就是你怎麼會這麼極端呢"},{"start":10854.14,"end":10856.14,"text":"完全就是扭曲新北市教育局的做法"},{"start":10856.14,"end":10858.14,"text":"那當你當了市長之後"},{"start":10858.14,"end":10860.14,"text":"你會不會繼續扭曲"},{"start":10860.14,"end":10862.14,"text":"所以會引起討論嘛"},{"start":10862.14,"end":10864.14,"text":"我們來看下一頁"},{"start":10864.14,"end":10866.14,"text":"然後你看他講說新北市要做的是比A政策更噁爛"},{"start":10866.14,"end":10868.14,"text":"罵這個新北市噁爛"},{"start":10868.14,"end":10870.14,"text":"他說"},{"start":10870.14,"end":10872.14,"text":"因為在學校就要把一些既定的刻板印象"},{"start":10872.14,"end":10874.14,"text":"融合成一個犯罪嫌疑人的印象"},{"start":10874.14,"end":10876.14,"text":"進而"},{"start":10876.14,"end":10878.14,"text":"做出篩檢"},{"start":10878.14,"end":10880.14,"text":"現在只要針對可疑者"},{"start":10880.14,"end":10882.14,"text":"做篩檢"},{"start":10882.14,"end":10884.14,"text":"就是要營造一個犯罪嫌疑人的印象"},{"start":10884.14,"end":10886.14,"text":"然後給他貼標籤"},{"start":10886.14,"end":10888.14,"text":"那如果是這樣的話你們也不能夠"},{"start":10888.14,"end":10890.14,"text":"現在學校都不能做校園篩檢"},{"start":10890.14,"end":10892.14,"text":"因為你只要做校園篩檢"},{"start":10892.14,"end":10894.14,"text":"教育部目前所做的標準我們這個有疑慮"},{"start":10894.14,"end":10896.14,"text":"跟這個"},{"start":10896.14,"end":10898.14,"text":"這個高風險的標準"},{"start":10898.14,"end":10900.14,"text":"我們這個標準事實上是比較"},{"start":10900.14,"end":10902.14,"text":"按照他的文章寫法你這就是要"},{"start":10902.14,"end":10904.14,"text":"營造一種犯罪嫌疑者的印象"},{"start":10904.14,"end":10906.14,"text":"我一定就全部就去"},{"start":10906.14,"end":10908.14,"text":"只要有就是有這個印象嘛"},{"start":10908.14,"end":10910.14,"text":"你看下面"},{"start":10910.14,"end":10912.14,"text":"紅線畫出來的部分"},{"start":10912.14,"end":10914.14,"text":"中錯生適應學校不良者"},{"start":10914.14,"end":10916.14,"text":"CNN者飛行者的印象就會在"},{"start":10916.14,"end":10918.14,"text":"這個政策執行者的腦中漸漸浮現"},{"start":10918.14,"end":10920.14,"text":"你針對這些人去做篩檢"},{"start":10920.14,"end":10922.14,"text":"你就會覺得他們不好了啦"},{"start":10922.14,"end":10924.14,"text":"這是他文章的意思啦"},{"start":10924.14,"end":10926.14,"text":"最後我們來看"},{"start":10926.14,"end":10928.14,"text":"那他說如果逼政策除罪化"},{"start":10928.14,"end":10930.14,"text":"因為他本來是想說最好是除罪化"},{"start":10930.14,"end":10932.14,"text":"然後提供減少動機"},{"start":10932.14,"end":10934.14,"text":"如果天機的話"},{"start":10934.14,"end":10936.14,"text":"那台灣可以仿造其他國家"},{"start":10936.14,"end":10938.14,"text":"某些國家建立社區中心"},{"start":10938.14,"end":10940.14,"text":"提供吸毒者毒品與乾淨的針頭"},{"start":10940.14,"end":10942.14,"text":"並導入涉動機制"},{"start":10942.14,"end":10944.14,"text":"這個文章是2014年寫的"},{"start":10944.14,"end":10946.14,"text":"我請教一下2014年"},{"start":10946.14,"end":10948.14,"text":"那個時候有沒有美沙東了有沒有"},{"start":10948.75,"end":10950.75,"text":"請請那個衛福黨"},{"start":10951.84,"end":10953.84,"text":"方大委員那個時候是有"},{"start":10953.84,"end":10955.84,"text":"我們總共2005年"},{"start":10955.84,"end":10957.84,"text":"205年就開始了嘛"},{"start":10957.84,"end":10959.84,"text":"所以他在2014年寫這份文章的時候"},{"start":10959.84,"end":10961.84,"text":"他還說要仿造某些國家"},{"start":10961.84,"end":10963.84,"text":"他講的就不是美沙東嘛"},{"start":10963.84,"end":10965.84,"text":"因為美沙東早就在實施了嘛"},{"start":10965.84,"end":10967.84,"text":"何必還要仿效其他國家呢"},{"start":10967.84,"end":10969.84,"text":"那結果蔣萬安講說"},{"start":10969.84,"end":10971.84,"text":"美沙東哦忽然就什麼什麼"},{"start":10971.84,"end":10973.84,"text":"醫護人員出征說你怎麼可以罵我們"},{"start":10973.84,"end":10975.84,"text":"我們現在實施美沙東怎麼可以罵我們"},{"start":10975.84,"end":10977.84,"text":"這完全是張冠禮帶啊"},{"start":10978.53,"end":10980.53,"text":"那所以這就是為什麼一開始"},{"start":10980.53,"end":10982.53,"text":"剛剛那時候羅志祥委員他說他被告"},{"start":10982.53,"end":10984.53,"text":"他也要澄清啊"},{"start":10984.53,"end":10986.53,"text":"我今天把文章直接這樣讀"},{"start":10986.53,"end":10988.53,"text":"大家都知道 欸不好意思那個"},{"start":10988.53,"end":10990.53,"text":"場內委員要聊天可不可以"},{"start":10990.53,"end":10992.53,"text":"因為你們已經打擾到我了"},{"start":10993.04,"end":10993.54,"text":"欸"},{"start":10993.75,"end":10994.75,"text":"不好意思喔"},{"start":10995.12,"end":10997.12,"text":"要開同樂會的話可不可以到外面開"},{"start":10997.12,"end":10999.12,"text":"沒有沒有我們都小聲一點"},{"start":10999.12,"end":11001.12,"text":"所有的人都小聲一點喔"},{"start":11001.12,"end":11003.12,"text":"不針對任何人"},{"start":11003.12,"end":11005.12,"text":"那請尊重我們諮詢的委員"},{"start":11005.16,"end":11007.16,"text":"好那把時間還給委員"},{"start":11007.16,"end":11009.16,"text":"我們繼續"},{"start":11008.64,"end":11010.64,"text":"就是說所以羅志祥委員他剛剛講"},{"start":11010.64,"end":11012.64,"text":"他講的就講的我們文章讀就是這樣啊"},{"start":11012.64,"end":11014.64,"text":"剛剛第一個陳培育委員在講說"},{"start":11014.64,"end":11016.64,"text":"怎麼要增加文章試讀"},{"start":11016.64,"end":11018.64,"text":"對啊我們就來試讀啊"},{"start":11018.64,"end":11020.64,"text":"是不是講的是美沙東"},{"start":11020.64,"end":11022.64,"text":"如果2014年寫的文章"},{"start":11022.64,"end":11024.64,"text":"美沙東已經在做了"},{"start":11024.64,"end":11026.64,"text":"快十年了他還需要仿效"},{"start":11026.64,"end":11028.64,"text":"其他國家做美沙東嗎"},{"start":11028.64,"end":11030.64,"text":"有人是這樣寫文章的嗎"},{"start":11030.64,"end":11032.64,"text":"所以這個社區中心提供"},{"start":11032.64,"end":11034.64,"text":"吸毒者毒品與乾淨的針頭"},{"start":11034.64,"end":11036.64,"text":"講的就不是美沙東"},{"start":11037.24,"end":11039.24,"text":"那我覺得沒有關係"},{"start":11039.24,"end":11041.24,"text":"這個陳柏楊候選人"},{"start":11041.24,"end":11043.24,"text":"陳柏楊委員他2014年或許"},{"start":11043.24,"end":11045.24,"text":"很偏激他覺得不應該"},{"start":11045.24,"end":11047.24,"text":"校園篩檢"},{"start":11046.5,"end":11048.5,"text":"任何都不要普篩也不能針對"},{"start":11048.5,"end":11050.5,"text":"嫌疑者普篩因為這樣就是柔和什麼"},{"start":11050.5,"end":11052.5,"text":"犯罪的形象然後他認為要在"},{"start":11052.5,"end":11054.5,"text":"社區中心提供吸毒者毒品"},{"start":11054.5,"end":11056.5,"text":"跟針頭他覺得他那時候"},{"start":11056.5,"end":11058.5,"text":"的看法但他可能十幾年"},{"start":11058.5,"end":11060.5,"text":"之後改了也OK啊"},{"start":11060.5,"end":11062.5,"text":"可是我不知道為什麼就是"},{"start":11062.5,"end":11064.5,"text":"一直去扭曲這個之前的講法"},{"start":11064.5,"end":11066.5,"text":"扭曲到現在大家不知道說到底"},{"start":11066.5,"end":11068.5,"text":"校園到底是能不能進行篩檢"},{"start":11069.56,"end":11071.56,"text":"所以我想請教部長"},{"start":11071.56,"end":11073.56,"text":"現在校園篩檢是可以的嗎"},{"start":11073.56,"end":11075.56,"text":"政部長可以的嗎"},{"start":11074.82,"end":11076.82,"text":"可以的嘛"},{"start":11076.82,"end":11078.82,"text":"等於說我們這一個有特定的"},{"start":11078.82,"end":11080.82,"text":"這個學生就可以嘛"},{"start":11080.82,"end":11082.82,"text":"我們是可以的"},{"start":11082.82,"end":11084.82,"text":"我們有列冊嘛"},{"start":11084.82,"end":11086.82,"text":"那個依法列冊嘛"},{"start":11086.82,"end":11088.82,"text":"所以是可以的嘛"},{"start":11088.82,"end":11090.82,"text":"所以跟他那時候寫的就不一樣"},{"start":11090.82,"end":11092.82,"text":"這個我要澄清這沒有什麼造謠不造謠"},{"start":11092.82,"end":11094.82,"text":"這文章就是這樣子"},{"start":11094.5,"end":11096.5,"text":"然後第二件事情我想請教一下"},{"start":11096.5,"end":11098.5,"text":"我們現在在學校裡面"},{"start":11098.5,"end":11100.5,"text":"如果要針對"},{"start":11100.5,"end":11102.5,"text":"第一個你可以針對造冊者"},{"start":11102.5,"end":11104.5,"text":"進行篩檢是可以的只是說還沒有"},{"start":11104.5,"end":11106.5,"text":"脫液塊篩嘛是尿液塊篩"},{"start":11106.5,"end":11108.5,"text":"那如果不在"},{"start":11108.5,"end":11110.5,"text":"那個列冊名單內的話"},{"start":11110.5,"end":11112.5,"text":"你如果覺得說比如說他"},{"start":11112.5,"end":11114.5,"text":"疑似吸毒神經很奇怪"},{"start":11114.5,"end":11116.5,"text":"或者是很多人指控"},{"start":11116.5,"end":11118.5,"text":"有指證例例說他有吸毒"},{"start":11118.5,"end":11120.5,"text":"但他沒有在那個名冊上面你是不能"},{"start":11120.5,"end":11122.5,"text":"強迫對不對這要家長同意"},{"start":11122.5,"end":11124.5,"text":"是不是"},{"start":11124.5,"end":11126.5,"text":"那現在會衍生出一個問題我請教一下部長"},{"start":11126.5,"end":11128.5,"text":"我們驗毒不是希望能夠懲罰他"},{"start":11128.5,"end":11130.5,"text":"是希望幫助他"},{"start":11130.5,"end":11132.5,"text":"但是如果他拒絕咧"},{"start":11133.11,"end":11135.11,"text":"如果說在學校裡面"},{"start":11135.11,"end":11137.11,"text":"他現在就說我不要"},{"start":11137.11,"end":11139.11,"text":"我就不要去尿尿"},{"start":11139.11,"end":11141.11,"text":"因為現在是先尿液嘛"},{"start":11141.11,"end":11143.11,"text":"或者是未來拒絕他說我不要吐"},{"start":11143.11,"end":11145.11,"text":"我不要吐口水啊那怎麼處理"},{"start":11145.51,"end":11147.51,"text":"那對這個拒絕的學生"},{"start":11147.51,"end":11149.51,"text":"或者是家長我們當然還是在"},{"start":11149.51,"end":11151.51,"text":"在這個跟他"},{"start":11151.51,"end":11153.51,"text":"詳細的這個做說明嘛"},{"start":11153.51,"end":11155.51,"text":"那如果他真的"},{"start":11155.51,"end":11157.51,"text":"那我們就請"},{"start":11157.51,"end":11159.51,"text":"這個校外會或者"},{"start":11159.51,"end":11161.51,"text":"這個醫療警政單位"},{"start":11161.51,"end":11163.51,"text":"來做協助"},{"start":11163.51,"end":11165.51,"text":"會直接通報警政單位是不是"},{"start":11165.51,"end":11167.51,"text":"強制嗎請協助"},{"start":11167.51,"end":11169.51,"text":"也是協助嘛那他還是不要咧"},{"start":11173.47,"end":11175.47,"text":"拜拜"},{"start":11174.24,"end":11176.24,"text":"我說還是不要咧"},{"start":11176.24,"end":11178.24,"text":"沒有或警政署"},{"start":11178.24,"end":11180.24,"text":"今天有派人嗎"},{"start":11182.95,"end":11184.95,"text":"不是"},{"start":11184.33,"end":11186.33,"text":"那請問那部長說"},{"start":11186.33,"end":11188.33,"text":"部長講說如果在學校裡面"},{"start":11188.33,"end":11190.33,"text":"他就是不願意"},{"start":11190.33,"end":11192.33,"text":"配合檢驗他可能是列冊"},{"start":11192.33,"end":11194.33,"text":"名單喔他不願意配合檢驗"},{"start":11194.33,"end":11196.33,"text":"然後部長是講說會請警察"},{"start":11196.33,"end":11198.33,"text":"來協助那警察"},{"start":11198.33,"end":11200.33,"text":"通常是怎麼協助"},{"start":11199.89,"end":11201.89,"text":"官委員報告這個部分"},{"start":11201.89,"end":11203.89,"text":"仍然還是要爭得家長的同意"},{"start":11203.89,"end":11205.89,"text":"還是要家長的同意"},{"start":11205.89,"end":11207.89,"text":"對或者是他必須"},{"start":11207.89,"end":11209.89,"text":"視為法律上的"},{"start":11209.89,"end":11211.89,"text":"現行犯"},{"start":11211.64,"end":11213.64,"text":"就持有毒品啦"},{"start":11213.64,"end":11215.64,"text":"明確身上帶有毒品啦"},{"start":11215.64,"end":11217.64,"text":"所以這就是一個"},{"start":11217.96,"end":11219.96,"text":"我覺得這就是一個漏洞嘛"},{"start":11220.14,"end":11222.14,"text":"這就是一個漏洞啦"},{"start":11221.9,"end":11223.9,"text":"我覺得大家可能還是要"},{"start":11223.9,"end":11225.9,"text":"再考慮一下這個情況"},{"start":11225.9,"end":11227.9,"text":"就是說"},{"start":11227.9,"end":11229.9,"text":"因為現在校園非常"},{"start":11229.9,"end":11231.9,"text":"複雜嘛有的幫派也有"},{"start":11231.9,"end":11233.9,"text":"設入校園新興毒品進入"},{"start":11233.9,"end":11235.9,"text":"如果你都已經知道"},{"start":11235.9,"end":11237.9,"text":"他可能疑似吸毒了都沒有辦法"},{"start":11237.9,"end":11239.9,"text":"對他檢測他就是不檢測"},{"start":11239.9,"end":11241.9,"text":"現在其實是拿他沒有辦法"},{"start":11241.9,"end":11243.9,"text":"如果家長不管因為很多問題可能"},{"start":11243.9,"end":11245.9,"text":"也是家庭造成的問題家長不管"},{"start":11245.9,"end":11247.9,"text":"那這個學生這個吸毒狀況就會持續"},{"start":11247.9,"end":11249.9,"text":"持續下去"},{"start":11249.9,"end":11251.9,"text":"可能還是大家你們這幾個部會"},{"start":11251.9,"end":11253.9,"text":"還是要研究一下怎麼去處理"},{"start":11253.9,"end":11255.9,"text":"然後第二好其他的"},{"start":11255.9,"end":11257.9,"text":"那個可以請回我再問一個問題"},{"start":11259.16,"end":11261.16,"text":"部長那個我有看到行政院"},{"start":11261.16,"end":11263.16,"text":"有開記者會"},{"start":11263.16,"end":11265.16,"text":"就是說要增加校安人力到兩千人"},{"start":11265.16,"end":11267.16,"text":"非常感謝"},{"start":11267.16,"end":11269.16,"text":"因為部長應該知道我從2024年"},{"start":11269.16,"end":11271.16,"text":"開始我就不斷的爭取"},{"start":11271.16,"end":11273.16,"text":"校安人員那個時候"},{"start":11273.16,"end":11275.16,"text":"第一年爭取到國中一位"},{"start":11275.16,"end":11277.16,"text":"對不對部長那時候你當部長"},{"start":11277.16,"end":11279.16,"text":"後來我一直跟部長也利用"},{"start":11279.16,"end":11281.16,"text":"總質詢的時間跟院長講說"},{"start":11281.16,"end":11283.16,"text":"高中是六個班一位"},{"start":11283.16,"end":11285.16,"text":"國中是六十個班一位"},{"start":11285.16,"end":11287.16,"text":"所以希望國中可以比照高中"},{"start":11287.16,"end":11289.16,"text":"當時不管是部長或者是院長"},{"start":11289.16,"end":11291.16,"text":"總統太院長的回答都是"},{"start":11291.16,"end":11293.16,"text":"要跟地方商量什麼才華法怎樣怎樣"},{"start":11293.16,"end":11295.16,"text":"沒有錢"},{"start":11295.16,"end":11297.16,"text":"那我特別我講說大家現在討論"},{"start":11297.16,"end":11299.16,"text":"這個事情要不要做如果需要做的話"},{"start":11299.16,"end":11301.16,"text":"錢大家再來討論"},{"start":11301.16,"end":11303.16,"text":"後來行政院說要弄第五類保全"},{"start":11304.35,"end":11306.35,"text":"第五類保全"},{"start":11306.35,"end":11308.35,"text":"那大家有疑慮就是說第五類保全感覺是不是軍警介入校園"},{"start":11308.35,"end":11310.35,"text":"我也跟當時的次長"},{"start":11310.35,"end":11312.35,"text":"你不在那時候是張廖"},{"start":11312.35,"end":11314.35,"text":"我說既然行政院要做這件事情"},{"start":11314.35,"end":11316.35,"text":"只是不同的形式不如"},{"start":11316.35,"end":11318.35,"text":"請校內部去跟行政院爭取預算"},{"start":11318.35,"end":11320.35,"text":"把它變成學校裡面編制內"},{"start":11320.35,"end":11322.35,"text":"校安人員學校沒有疑慮"},{"start":11322.35,"end":11324.35,"text":"也可以幫助維持校安"},{"start":11325.34,"end":11327.34,"text":"就感謝你們終於從善如流"},{"start":11327.34,"end":11329.34,"text":"在"},{"start":11329.34,"end":11331.34,"text":"應該是上個月還上上個月"},{"start":11331.34,"end":11333.34,"text":"宣布要增加兩千個人力"},{"start":11333.34,"end":11335.34,"text":"那我想請教一下這個細節"},{"start":11335.34,"end":11337.34,"text":"第一個這個校安人員"},{"start":11337.34,"end":11339.34,"text":"是不是就是編制內跟之前的"},{"start":11339.34,"end":11341.34,"text":"校安人員一模一樣只是以前"},{"start":11341.34,"end":11343.34,"text":"在國中是60個班一位"},{"start":11343.34,"end":11345.34,"text":"現在就是人數變多但是大家的職權"},{"start":11345.34,"end":11347.34,"text":"是一樣的是嗎"},{"start":11347.04,"end":11349.04,"text":"性質跟職權是一樣的"},{"start":11349.04,"end":11351.04,"text":"我們基本上從這個高中"},{"start":11351.04,"end":11353.04,"text":"職的一個經驗裡面我們看到"},{"start":11353.04,"end":11355.04,"text":"這個怎麼樣去協助在"},{"start":11355.04,"end":11357.04,"text":"國中裡面讓老師能夠"},{"start":11357.04,"end":11359.04,"text":"更安全更安心的一個"},{"start":11359.04,"end":11361.04,"text":"專心的教書"},{"start":11361.04,"end":11363.04,"text":"然後學生學習所以性質是"},{"start":11363.04,"end":11365.04,"text":"一樣的所以基本上性質是一樣"},{"start":11365.04,"end":11367.04,"text":"我們也希望說學校"},{"start":11367.04,"end":11369.04,"text":"的偶發狀況學校的一些安全"},{"start":11369.04,"end":11371.04,"text":"是是以還有"},{"start":11371.04,"end":11373.04,"text":"一些譬如說我們現在在談防毒"},{"start":11373.04,"end":11375.04,"text":"能夠有增加"},{"start":11375.04,"end":11377.04,"text":"這個所謂的這個專門"},{"start":11377.04,"end":11379.04,"text":"人力能夠來協助"},{"start":11379.04,"end":11381.04,"text":"第二個他們薪資是多少"},{"start":11381.04,"end":11383.04,"text":"三是三萬六到"},{"start":11383.04,"end":11385.04,"text":"四萬七嗎"},{"start":11385.18,"end":11387.18,"text":"基本上"},{"start":11387.96,"end":11389.96,"text":"我們心目中的一個薪資"},{"start":11389.96,"end":11391.96,"text":"當然這樣我們覺得是"},{"start":11391.96,"end":11393.96,"text":"比較偏低的結果我們在"},{"start":11393.96,"end":11395.96,"text":"預算在編列跟地方的"},{"start":11395.96,"end":11397.96,"text":"討論我基本上"},{"start":11397.96,"end":11399.96,"text":"我會希望說再高一點"},{"start":11399.96,"end":11401.96,"text":"再高一點我簡單提醒兩件事"},{"start":11401.96,"end":11403.96,"text":"第一個如果是三萬六到四萬七"},{"start":11403.96,"end":11405.96,"text":"我們會擔心說是不是"},{"start":11405.96,"end":11407.96,"text":"沒辦法遭到真的有相關的"},{"start":11407.96,"end":11409.96,"text":"專業訓練的人員"},{"start":11409.96,"end":11411.96,"text":"然後第一件事情所以你們可以考慮說"},{"start":11411.96,"end":11413.96,"text":"預算在增加當然我們絕對會支持"},{"start":11413.96,"end":11415.96,"text":"第二件事情是"},{"start":11415.96,"end":11417.96,"text":"我之前有提過啦其實如果有一些退休的軍警"},{"start":11417.96,"end":11419.96,"text":"他們願意"},{"start":11419.96,"end":11421.96,"text":"回到校園來擔任校安人員"},{"start":11421.96,"end":11423.96,"text":"我認為是一個很不錯的事情就像高中"},{"start":11423.96,"end":11425.96,"text":"現在有些學校還是有教官嘛"},{"start":11425.96,"end":11427.96,"text":"他們是訓練有素的嘛"},{"start":11427.96,"end":11429.96,"text":"所以如果軍警退休"},{"start":11429.96,"end":11431.96,"text":"我們也有一些校安人員的課程"},{"start":11431.96,"end":11433.96,"text":"可是他們如果是退休軍警回到校園"},{"start":11433.96,"end":11435.96,"text":"三萬六到四萬七"},{"start":11435.96,"end":11437.96,"text":"他的薪水比如說四萬"},{"start":11437.96,"end":11439.96,"text":"他就卡住了"},{"start":11439.96,"end":11441.96,"text":"因為他是退休人員的天花板"},{"start":11441.96,"end":11443.96,"text":"其實我們規劃中的"},{"start":11443.96,"end":11445.96,"text":"這個校安人力"},{"start":11445.96,"end":11447.96,"text":"就說他不是退休人力"},{"start":11447.96,"end":11449.96,"text":"能夠應該要接近"},{"start":11449.96,"end":11451.96,"text":"五萬至少左右"},{"start":11451.96,"end":11453.96,"text":"所以第一個你提高"},{"start":11453.96,"end":11455.96,"text":"五萬嘛你看能不能接到到專業人員"},{"start":11455.96,"end":11457.96,"text":"第二個是如果希望"},{"start":11457.96,"end":11459.96,"text":"一些退休軍警因為他們訓練過嘛"},{"start":11459.96,"end":11461.96,"text":"有時候其實退休還蠻年輕的嘛"},{"start":11461.96,"end":11463.96,"text":"他如果願意回到校園他薪資會卡住嘛"},{"start":11463.96,"end":11465.96,"text":"所以我跟羅廷維那時候我們有提案啊"},{"start":11465.96,"end":11467.96,"text":"就希望能夠打開"},{"start":11467.96,"end":11469.96,"text":"軍警"},{"start":11470.5,"end":11472.5,"text":"公教的他們的薪資天花板嘛"},{"start":11472.5,"end":11474.5,"text":"對不對"},{"start":11474.5,"end":11476.5,"text":"可以打開他們就可以來擔任這個工作"},{"start":11476.5,"end":11478.5,"text":"可是我們那時候被罵啊"},{"start":11478.5,"end":11480.5,"text":"被吳思堯陳培渝罵說我們是要養雙薪肥貓啊"},{"start":11480.5,"end":11482.5,"text":"我是不知道說"},{"start":11482.5,"end":11484.5,"text":"請退休軍警回來"},{"start":11484.5,"end":11486.5,"text":"擔任校安人員或去學校幫忙"},{"start":11486.5,"end":11488.5,"text":"為什麼是雙薪肥貓"},{"start":11488.5,"end":11490.5,"text":"這個現在學校都缺老師了"},{"start":11490.5,"end":11492.5,"text":"然後他們回來貢獻專業"},{"start":11492.5,"end":11494.5,"text":"要被罵雙薪肥貓受這種標籤的侮辱"},{"start":11496.12,"end":11498.12,"text":"所以我希望我們就事論事"},{"start":11498.12,"end":11500.12,"text":"吳思堯委員講說不要把政治帶到教育"},{"start":11500.12,"end":11502.12,"text":"我們現在就討論教育"},{"start":11502.12,"end":11504.12,"text":"如果部長署長你們認為說"},{"start":11504.12,"end":11508.12,"text":"這個確實退休軍警回來擔任這種校安人員"},{"start":11508.12,"end":11510.12,"text":"是不錯的考慮"},{"start":11510.12,"end":11512.12,"text":"我們一起來思考怎麼把他的天花板"},{"start":11512.12,"end":11514.12,"text":"來透過一些修正"},{"start":11514.12,"end":11516.12,"text":"讓他們可以來做這個職務"},{"start":11516.12,"end":11518.12,"text":"我覺得是一個努力的方向"},{"start":11518.12,"end":11520.12,"text":"以目前來講他們本來就可以"},{"start":11520.12,"end":11522.12,"text":"假設他願意他也在我們學校的一個"},{"start":11522.12,"end":11524.12,"text":"這個問題是他可能"},{"start":11524.12,"end":11526.12,"text":"比如說你薪水提到四萬"},{"start":11526.12,"end":11528.12,"text":"但是他確實受公務人員"},{"start":11528.12,"end":11530.12,"text":"因為他在修上"},{"start":11530.12,"end":11532.12,"text":"所以我們不要鬼打牆"},{"start":11532.12,"end":11534.12,"text":"所以你如果把他打開"},{"start":11534.12,"end":11536.12,"text":"比如說往上調 比如說五萬"},{"start":11536.12,"end":11538.12,"text":"他現在是堆地薪資嘛"},{"start":11538.12,"end":11540.12,"text":"你調到五萬他就不會受限了"},{"start":11540.12,"end":11542.12,"text":"我也利用這個機會讓委員知道"},{"start":11542.12,"end":11544.12,"text":"像他們這個校安人力"},{"start":11544.12,"end":11546.12,"text":"他還有另外的一個"},{"start":11546.12,"end":11548.12,"text":"比如說他的工時上"},{"start":11548.12,"end":11550.12,"text":"因為配合學校許多的一些安全的一個維護"},{"start":11550.12,"end":11552.12,"text":"而有必要"},{"start":11552.12,"end":11554.12,"text":"那如果說他在做活動或者加班"},{"start":11554.12,"end":11556.12,"text":"他們事實上還有另外的一個加班位"},{"start":11556.12,"end":11558.12,"text":"是可以領的"},{"start":11558.12,"end":11560.12,"text":"我們講的是不同的事情"},{"start":11560.12,"end":11562.12,"text":"最後啦 最後"},{"start":11562.12,"end":11564.12,"text":"昨天因為次長有來"},{"start":11564.12,"end":11566.12,"text":"部長您沒有來 我很快問一下"},{"start":11566.12,"end":11568.12,"text":"因為你們在教師節的時候"},{"start":11568.12,"end":11570.12,"text":"拍了一個禁師影片"},{"start":11570.12,"end":11572.12,"text":"那個禁師影片後來被老師罵翻了"},{"start":11572.12,"end":11574.12,"text":"主要原因是因為裡面情節"},{"start":11574.12,"end":11576.12,"text":"很多都會害老師被進入到校事會議"},{"start":11576.12,"end":11578.12,"text":"比如說老師在"},{"start":11578.12,"end":11580.12,"text":"課堂上面宣布成績"},{"start":11580.12,"end":11582.12,"text":"這個也會被投訴進到校事會議"},{"start":11582.12,"end":11584.12,"text":"第二 老師把學生帶到陶藝教室"},{"start":11584.12,"end":11586.12,"text":"一對一 這個也會被投訴"},{"start":11586.12,"end":11588.12,"text":"進入校事會議"},{"start":11588.12,"end":11590.12,"text":"老師為了表示鼓勵 有拍學生的肩"},{"start":11590.12,"end":11592.12,"text":"這個進入校事會議"},{"start":11592.12,"end":11594.12,"text":"那我自己覺得很荒謬啦"},{"start":11594.12,"end":11596.12,"text":"就是說為什麼教育部禁師"},{"start":11596.12,"end":11598.12,"text":"會拍了一個這樣的影片"},{"start":11598.12,"end":11600.12,"text":"這個代表你們跟基層離很遠"},{"start":11600.12,"end":11602.12,"text":"那我昨天問次長"},{"start":11602.12,"end":11604.12,"text":"他是說他沒看過"},{"start":11604.12,"end":11606.12,"text":"然後說是施藝師"},{"start":11606.12,"end":11608.12,"text":"施藝師腳本審了就直接送出去"},{"start":11608.12,"end":11610.12,"text":"部長你有看過這個影片嗎"},{"start":11610.88,"end":11612.88,"text":"我看過了"},{"start":11612.88,"end":11614.88,"text":"腳本你有審嗎"},{"start":11614.88,"end":11616.88,"text":"腳本我沒有審"},{"start":11616.88,"end":11618.88,"text":"當時大概就是說"},{"start":11618.88,"end":11620.88,"text":"因為這個戲劇這個影音"},{"start":11620.88,"end":11622.88,"text":"你怎麼去關心學生"},{"start":11622.88,"end":11624.88,"text":"用什麼"},{"start":11624.88,"end":11626.88,"text":"肢體援摸這個的表達"},{"start":11626.88,"end":11628.88,"text":"怎麼樣在畫面上能夠呈現"},{"start":11628.88,"end":11630.88,"text":"我想我們當然"},{"start":11630.88,"end":11632.88,"text":"可以來更精進啦"},{"start":11632.88,"end":11634.88,"text":"我跟你講啦"},{"start":11634.88,"end":11636.88,"text":"第一線的老師其實碰學生"},{"start":11636.88,"end":11638.88,"text":"大部分都是表達一種關心"},{"start":11638.88,"end":11640.88,"text":"那時候他表達關心他就被投訴到校事會議嘛"},{"start":11642.67,"end":11644.67,"text":"所以你們的影片就是表達關心"},{"start":11644.67,"end":11646.67,"text":"結果你就送到校事會議"},{"start":11646.67,"end":11648.67,"text":"那我覺得這個問題是在於說"},{"start":11648.67,"end":11650.67,"text":"你們的腳本"},{"start":11650.67,"end":11652.67,"text":"因為昨天施藝師的施長有講說他有跟教師有討論過"},{"start":11652.67,"end":11654.67,"text":"那你們的教師就是"},{"start":11654.67,"end":11656.67,"text":"可能已經大概20年沒教書了吧"},{"start":11658.01,"end":11660.01,"text":"所以你現在跟基層"},{"start":11660.01,"end":11662.01,"text":"例如說現在在第一線"},{"start":11662.01,"end":11664.01,"text":"他一個小時可能20堂課的那種老師"},{"start":11664.01,"end":11666.01,"text":"你們都沒跟他接觸啊"},{"start":11666.69,"end":11668.69,"text":"如果你是跟現在第一線"},{"start":11668.69,"end":11670.69,"text":"那種一個禮拜還有20堂課的老師接觸"},{"start":11670.69,"end":11672.69,"text":"他一定會告訴你說"},{"start":11672.69,"end":11674.69,"text":"第一幕就會進入校事會議喔"},{"start":11674.69,"end":11676.69,"text":"進到校事就會進入到校事會議喔"},{"start":11676.69,"end":11678.69,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":11678.69,"end":11680.69,"text":"所以我不在乎太多時間啦"},{"start":11680.69,"end":11682.69,"text":"第一個剛剛羅庭偉委員有講"},{"start":11682.69,"end":11684.69,"text":"校事會議3.0有送來"},{"start":11684.69,"end":11686.69,"text":"但是還是要持續去跟第一線的老師接觸"},{"start":11686.69,"end":11688.69,"text":"不要去跟那些那種"},{"start":11688.69,"end":11690.69,"text":"可能"},{"start":11690.69,"end":11692.69,"text":"已經脫離教育的現場"},{"start":11692.69,"end":11694.69,"text":"一段時間的人他們給你的不見得是"},{"start":11694.69,"end":11696.69,"text":"第一線的意見"},{"start":11696.69,"end":11698.69,"text":"這是我第一個建議"},{"start":11698.69,"end":11700.69,"text":"第二個建議喔我們剛剛講沈柏楊"},{"start":11700.69,"end":11702.69,"text":"沈柏楊說他忽然間"},{"start":11702.69,"end":11704.69,"text":"重視注意到"},{"start":11704.69,"end":11706.69,"text":"他忽然間注意到這個缺老師的問題"},{"start":11706.69,"end":11708.69,"text":"所以要辦一個市長我不想幹了的活動"},{"start":11708.69,"end":11710.69,"text":"要邀請老師來表達心聲"},{"start":11710.69,"end":11712.69,"text":"說為什麼不想幹了"},{"start":11712.35,"end":11714.35,"text":"我那時候是覺得很好笑啦"},{"start":11714.66,"end":11716.66,"text":"缺老師的話題我們在教育文化委員會"},{"start":11716.66,"end":11718.66,"text":"考慮討論兩年多"},{"start":11718.66,"end":11720.66,"text":"但是因為他是國防委員會他沒有關心"},{"start":11720.66,"end":11722.66,"text":"忽然間關係也很好"},{"start":11722.66,"end":11724.66,"text":"以致用火也不錯"},{"start":11724.66,"end":11726.66,"text":"但是老師不想幹的原因"},{"start":11726.66,"end":11728.66,"text":"我們都知道很多是中央政策"},{"start":11728.66,"end":11730.66,"text":"比如說校事會議濫述"},{"start":11730.21,"end":11732.21,"text":"比如說沒有尊嚴"},{"start":11731.96,"end":11733.96,"text":"比如說待遇的問題這很多都是中央政策"},{"start":11733.96,"end":11735.96,"text":"所以我覺得"},{"start":11735.96,"end":11737.96,"text":"既然這個民進黨沈柏楊"},{"start":11737.96,"end":11739.96,"text":"市長候選人沈委員"},{"start":11739.96,"end":11741.96,"text":"我還沒講完"},{"start":11741.96,"end":11743.96,"text":"有提出這樣的一個構想"},{"start":11743.96,"end":11745.96,"text":"部長你要不要辦一個部長我不想幹了的活動"},{"start":11745.96,"end":11747.96,"text":"然後邀請基層的老師"},{"start":11747.96,"end":11749.96,"text":"我想提議今天這個事情"},{"start":11749.96,"end":11751.96,"text":"也來自於很多"},{"start":11751.96,"end":11753.96,"text":"地方老師的聲音在這邊"},{"start":11753.96,"end":11755.96,"text":"對討論這個教育的政策"},{"start":11755.96,"end":11757.96,"text":"那沈委員"},{"start":11757.96,"end":11759.96,"text":"我的問題是"},{"start":11759.96,"end":11761.96,"text":"講到沈柏楊你就開始那麼激動"},{"start":11761.96,"end":11763.96,"text":"我還沒講完"},{"start":11763.96,"end":11765.96,"text":"我的問題是你要不要"},{"start":11765.96,"end":11767.96,"text":"也辦一個部長我不想幹了的活動"},{"start":11767.96,"end":11769.96,"text":"讓一線的"},{"start":11769.96,"end":11771.96,"text":"一線的老師來跟你"},{"start":11771.96,"end":11773.96,"text":"直接面對面"},{"start":11774.99,"end":11776.99,"text":"我想我本來就已經在跟地方"},{"start":11776.99,"end":11778.99,"text":"有機會就跟地方"},{"start":11778.99,"end":11780.99,"text":"這一個不管教師團體"},{"start":11780.99,"end":11782.99,"text":"或者地方的老師"},{"start":11782.99,"end":11784.99,"text":"可是我就說嘛"},{"start":11784.99,"end":11786.99,"text":"你真的跟第一線老師有很近的話"},{"start":11786.99,"end":11788.99,"text":"你們不會拍出"},{"start":11788.99,"end":11790.99,"text":"你不會拍出928那種影片"},{"start":11790.99,"end":11792.99,"text":"你今天來這邊"},{"start":11792.99,"end":11794.99,"text":"告訴我們說你都有"},{"start":11794.99,"end":11796.99,"text":"可是你怎麼會拍出那個影片"},{"start":11796.99,"end":11798.99,"text":"事實證明就是離一線很遠"},{"start":11800.14,"end":11802.14,"text":"所以你可以參考一下"},{"start":11802.14,"end":11804.14,"text":"你可以辦一個部長我不想幹了的活動"},{"start":11804.14,"end":11806.14,"text":"如果是牽涉到中央政策"},{"start":11806.14,"end":11808.14,"text":"導致於缺老師的問題的話"},{"start":11808.14,"end":11810.14,"text":"你也可以直接聽第一線的心聲"},{"start":11810.14,"end":11812.14,"text":"缺老師的問題地方中央跟地方合作"},{"start":11812.14,"end":11814.14,"text":"這個態度是非常清楚"},{"start":11814.14,"end":11816.14,"text":"中央來負責"},{"start":11816.14,"end":11818.14,"text":"培養各類科的老師"},{"start":11818.14,"end":11820.14,"text":"跟大學院校來培養老師"},{"start":11820.14,"end":11822.14,"text":"那地方怎麼去"},{"start":11822.14,"end":11824.14,"text":"延攬優秀的老師"},{"start":11824.14,"end":11826.14,"text":"甚至留下優秀的老師"},{"start":11826.14,"end":11828.14,"text":"我想國民教育這個地方一定有"},{"start":11828.14,"end":11830.14,"text":"沒有問題"},{"start":11830.14,"end":11832.14,"text":"但是譬如說這個校事會議"},{"start":11832.14,"end":11834.14,"text":"譬如說沒尊嚴"},{"start":11834.14,"end":11836.14,"text":"這些都是大環境的問題"},{"start":11836.14,"end":11838.14,"text":"這就是中央的問題"},{"start":11838.14,"end":11840.14,"text":"這就是中央的問題"},{"start":11840.14,"end":11842.14,"text":"這就是中央的問題"},{"start":11842.14,"end":11844.14,"text":"校事會議怎麼會是地方教育的疏漏呢"},{"start":11844.14,"end":11846.14,"text":"校事會議怎麼會是地方教育的疏漏呢"},{"start":11846.14,"end":11848.14,"text":"你真的甩鍋給地方"},{"start":11848.14,"end":11850.14,"text":"我要跟委員報告"},{"start":11850.14,"end":11852.14,"text":"現在你竟然把缺老師的問題"},{"start":11852.14,"end":11854.14,"text":"甩鍋給地方"},{"start":11854.14,"end":11856.14,"text":"因為委員提到校事會議"},{"start":11856.14,"end":11858.14,"text":"校事會議是地方定的嗎"},{"start":11858.14,"end":11860.14,"text":"所以今天地方政府"},{"start":11860.14,"end":11862.14,"text":"可以單方面的廢除校事會議嗎"},{"start":11862.14,"end":11864.14,"text":"學校發生了一些"},{"start":11864.14,"end":11866.14,"text":"不當的霸凌"},{"start":11866.14,"end":11868.14,"text":"而地方政府沒有辦法"},{"start":11868.14,"end":11870.14,"text":"這兩回事嘛"},{"start":11870.14,"end":11872.14,"text":"這個我們討論很多"},{"start":11872.14,"end":11874.14,"text":"校事會議你一開始"},{"start":11874.14,"end":11876.14,"text":"利益良善"},{"start":11876.14,"end":11878.14,"text":"你一開始利益良善"},{"start":11878.14,"end":11880.14,"text":"你一開始"},{"start":11880.14,"end":11882.14,"text":"你不要一直搭話好不好"},{"start":11882.14,"end":11884.14,"text":"你一開始利益良善這我們都知道"},{"start":11884.14,"end":11886.14,"text":"校事會議走到有罪推定"},{"start":11886.14,"end":11888.14,"text":"走到寧可錯差一百不可放過一人"},{"start":11888.14,"end":11890.14,"text":"其實他已經走偏了"},{"start":11890.14,"end":11892.14,"text":"所以才會要求你送新的案子過來"},{"start":11892.14,"end":11894.14,"text":"所以這是中央的職責"},{"start":11894.14,"end":11896.14,"text":"你怎麼可以推給地方呢"},{"start":11896.14,"end":11898.14,"text":"部長你今天的態度"},{"start":11898.14,"end":11900.14,"text":"你真的會讓很多人心寒"},{"start":11900.14,"end":11902.14,"text":"連請你解決缺老師問題"},{"start":11902.14,"end":11904.14,"text":"我現在是建議你說"},{"start":11904.14,"end":11906.14,"text":"我認為你跟"},{"start":11906.14,"end":11908.14,"text":"低線離很遠"},{"start":11908.14,"end":11910.14,"text":"我覺得你跟低線離很遠"},{"start":11910.14,"end":11912.14,"text":"然後結果你居然說"},{"start":11912.14,"end":11914.14,"text":"要找地方"},{"start":11914.08,"end":11916.08,"text":"你都沒有責任"},{"start":11915.97,"end":11917.97,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":11917.97,"end":11919.97,"text":"我進來以後就一直在聽"},{"start":11919.97,"end":11921.97,"text":"這個聲音"},{"start":11921.97,"end":11923.97,"text":"校事會的放話"},{"start":11923.97,"end":11925.97,"text":"也謝謝委員"},{"start":11925.97,"end":11927.97,"text":"你就針對你的職權去做改善"},{"start":11927.97,"end":11929.97,"text":"你不要動不動都講別人"},{"start":11929.97,"end":11931.97,"text":"你如果也有責任"},{"start":11931.97,"end":11933.97,"text":"你就針對你的職權做改善就好"},{"start":11933.97,"end":11935.97,"text":"我們現在在市場一直在改善"},{"start":11935.97,"end":11937.97,"text":"所以說我覺得教育部"},{"start":11937.97,"end":11939.97,"text":"你那個影片也不是地方政府叫你拍的"},{"start":11939.97,"end":11941.97,"text":"是你們教育部拍的"},{"start":11941.97,"end":11943.97,"text":"拍的不好"},{"start":11943.97,"end":11945.97,"text":"教育部跟一線的老師離很遠"},{"start":11945.97,"end":11947.97,"text":"現在請你多跟他們接觸"},{"start":11947.97,"end":11949.97,"text":"結果你說"},{"start":11949.97,"end":11951.97,"text":"我要去跟地方多多怎麼樣"},{"start":11951.97,"end":11953.97,"text":"那我覺得你這樣的甩鍋"},{"start":11953.97,"end":11955.97,"text":"身為教育最高主管機關的部長"},{"start":11955.97,"end":11957.97,"text":"還在討論去好受問題的時候"},{"start":11957.97,"end":11959.97,"text":"甩鍋"},{"start":11959.97,"end":11961.97,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":11961.97,"end":11963.97,"text":"不負責任"},{"start":11963.97,"end":11965.97,"text":"你剛剛就是這樣嘛"},{"start":11965.97,"end":11967.97,"text":"我覺得你這樣態度大家會很失望"},{"start":11971.67,"end":11973.67,"text":"好謝謝院之召委"},{"start":11986.54,"end":11988.54,"text":"接下來請陳冠廷委員"},{"start":11993.95,"end":11995.95,"text":"你好麻煩請部長"},{"start":11995.95,"end":11997.95,"text":"教育部部長"},{"start":11999.47,"end":12001.47,"text":"請部長"},{"start":12002.59,"end":12004.59,"text":"委員好"},{"start":12003.62,"end":12005.62,"text":"部長好"},{"start":12005.62,"end":12007.62,"text":"部長我上週在質詢衛福部的時候"},{"start":12007.62,"end":12009.62,"text":"我是討論新興毒品的防治跟"},{"start":12009.62,"end":12011.62,"text":"戒治的問題"},{"start":12011.62,"end":12013.62,"text":"那個時候衛福部是說在"},{"start":12013.62,"end":12015.62,"text":"列管之前他不會納入"},{"start":12015.62,"end":12017.62,"text":"現行毒品適用統計"},{"start":12017.62,"end":12019.62,"text":"也就是說我們現在政府對於掌控新興毒品"},{"start":12019.62,"end":12021.62,"text":"他還有一定程度的空間"},{"start":12021.62,"end":12023.62,"text":"可能沒有辦法全面性的來掌握"},{"start":12023.9,"end":12025.9,"text":"那所以我就是在去年4月"},{"start":12025.9,"end":12027.9,"text":"我有提出毒品防害"},{"start":12027.9,"end":12029.9,"text":"的這個防治條例裡面的修正草案"},{"start":12029.9,"end":12031.9,"text":"我是主張暫時"},{"start":12031.9,"end":12033.9,"text":"立刻建立"},{"start":12033.9,"end":12035.9,"text":"暫時型的緊急"},{"start":12035.9,"end":12037.9,"text":"列管機制"},{"start":12037.9,"end":12039.9,"text":"警政署這部分也是支持"},{"start":12039.9,"end":12041.9,"text":"那我們回到校園問題我看你們今天的報告"},{"start":12041.9,"end":12043.9,"text":"2023年的學生"},{"start":12043.9,"end":12045.9,"text":"涉毒個案是483案"},{"start":12045.9,"end":12047.9,"text":"2024到600"},{"start":12047.9,"end":12049.9,"text":"多案2025年快要"},{"start":12049.9,"end":12051.9,"text":"到650案"},{"start":12051.9,"end":12053.9,"text":"高中職也就是說高中職這個區"},{"start":12053.9,"end":12055.9,"text":"就是16到18歲"},{"start":12055.9,"end":12057.9,"text":"的這個狀況"},{"start":12057.9,"end":12059.9,"text":"就超過一半"},{"start":12059.32,"end":12061.32,"text":"那根據統計"},{"start":12061.32,"end":12063.32,"text":"他現在接觸最多的毒品是K他命"},{"start":12063.32,"end":12065.32,"text":"那第二就是伊托米子類"},{"start":12065.68,"end":12067.68,"text":"是不是代表說現在校園"},{"start":12067.68,"end":12069.68,"text":"的這個毒品遇到的毒品形態"},{"start":12069.68,"end":12071.68,"text":"跟過去有不同的趨勢"},{"start":12073.99,"end":12075.99,"text":"目前我們來看就是因為"},{"start":12075.99,"end":12077.99,"text":"伊托米子他的一個樣態"},{"start":12077.99,"end":12079.99,"text":"還有很多"},{"start":12079.99,"end":12081.99,"text":"卡通或很多的各式各樣"},{"start":12081.99,"end":12083.99,"text":"的一個口味"},{"start":12083.99,"end":12085.99,"text":"所以這個變成"},{"start":12085.99,"end":12087.99,"text":"對青少年他確實有"},{"start":12087.99,"end":12089.99,"text":"比較大的一些吸引"},{"start":12089.99,"end":12091.99,"text":"因為好奇心在每一個"},{"start":12091.99,"end":12093.99,"text":"人都有那也因為這樣"},{"start":12093.99,"end":12095.99,"text":"就很容易就"},{"start":12095.99,"end":12097.99,"text":"接觸到"},{"start":12097.75,"end":12099.75,"text":"安非他命是屬於興奮劑"},{"start":12100.36,"end":12102.36,"text":"那伊托米子是屬於什麼樣的"},{"start":12102.36,"end":12104.36,"text":"他是一個其實在醫療上他是一個"},{"start":12104.36,"end":12106.36,"text":"靜脈的一個注射的一個"},{"start":12106.36,"end":12108.36,"text":"那個麻醉劑"},{"start":12108.36,"end":12110.36,"text":"伊托米子是抑制劑"},{"start":12110.36,"end":12112.36,"text":"抑制劑的概念"},{"start":12112.36,"end":12114.36,"text":"所以跟安非他命剛好是兩種不同的急轉"},{"start":12114.36,"end":12116.36,"text":"可不可以這麼說"},{"start":12117.74,"end":12119.74,"text":"急轉不太一樣"},{"start":12120.43,"end":12122.43,"text":"這個是不是能夠請衛福部來"},{"start":12122.43,"end":12124.43,"text":"我們請衛福部"},{"start":12124.43,"end":12126.43,"text":"簡單來講一下"},{"start":12126.47,"end":12128.47,"text":"伊托米子他其實也是麻醉劑的一種"},{"start":12128.47,"end":12130.47,"text":"但是他就是"},{"start":12130.47,"end":12132.47,"text":"如果打了之後"},{"start":12132.47,"end":12134.47,"text":"會讓谷歌"},{"start":12134.47,"end":12136.47,"text":"有反彰的一些效果"},{"start":12136.47,"end":12138.47,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":12138.47,"end":12140.47,"text":"但是他原來是用在"},{"start":12140.47,"end":12142.47,"text":"醫療的那也是一個管制的一個毒"},{"start":12142.47,"end":12144.47,"text":"那我想請教的原因是因為"},{"start":12144.47,"end":12146.47,"text":"過去我們看到"},{"start":12146.47,"end":12148.47,"text":"你說這個鴉片類的"},{"start":12149.74,"end":12151.74,"text":"毒品我們是用美沙東的T的療法"},{"start":12151.74,"end":12153.74,"text":"是是是"},{"start":12153.74,"end":12155.74,"text":"如果說是像是"},{"start":12155.74,"end":12157.74,"text":"伊托米子這樣的新興毒品"},{"start":12157.74,"end":12159.74,"text":"他作用機制不一樣"},{"start":12159.74,"end":12161.74,"text":"所以當然是沒有辦法用美沙東的"},{"start":12161.74,"end":12163.74,"text":"所以我們當然在詢問衛福部的時候"},{"start":12163.74,"end":12165.74,"text":"那個時候你們說我們的"},{"start":12165.74,"end":12167.74,"text":"因為他的"},{"start":12167.74,"end":12169.74,"text":"急轉是跟這個鴉片類的"},{"start":12169.74,"end":12171.74,"text":"這個皮膚是我們剛剛提到的"},{"start":12171.74,"end":12173.74,"text":"是不同的"},{"start":12173.74,"end":12175.74,"text":"所以現在用心理上面的治療"},{"start":12175.74,"end":12177.74,"text":"心理跟社會支持的部分"},{"start":12177.74,"end":12179.74,"text":"現在要詢問的就是"},{"start":12179.47,"end":12181.47,"text":"除了心理之外的"},{"start":12181.47,"end":12183.47,"text":"有沒有其他替代性藥物"},{"start":12183.47,"end":12185.47,"text":"我們現在能做的"},{"start":12185.47,"end":12187.47,"text":"目前是沒有"},{"start":12187.47,"end":12189.47,"text":"所以我們現在是有機會可以"},{"start":12189.47,"end":12191.47,"text":"就是說如果他需要的話"},{"start":12191.47,"end":12193.47,"text":"那我們就有一個藥引的一個治療的項目"},{"start":12193.47,"end":12195.47,"text":"那就沒有辦法用其他"},{"start":12195.47,"end":12197.47,"text":"是是沒有辦法"},{"start":12197.47,"end":12199.47,"text":"那身體上面的這個藥引就沒有辦法"},{"start":12199.47,"end":12201.47,"text":"用"},{"start":12200.26,"end":12202.26,"text":"醫院或者是這種醫療方式來解決"},{"start":12202.26,"end":12204.26,"text":"主持人用心理上面的"},{"start":12204.26,"end":12206.26,"text":"對 心理跟社會支持"},{"start":12206.26,"end":12208.26,"text":"還有家庭的一個支持的部分"},{"start":12208.26,"end":12210.26,"text":"未來有沒有可能有相關的藥物"},{"start":12210.26,"end":12212.26,"text":"所以想要請教一下你們有"},{"start":12212.26,"end":12214.26,"text":"聽到有類似的"},{"start":12214.26,"end":12216.26,"text":"沒有辦法"},{"start":12216.26,"end":12218.26,"text":"是沒有辦法開發出來"},{"start":12218.26,"end":12220.26,"text":"科學上面的限制"},{"start":12220.26,"end":12222.26,"text":"也不是說我們沒辦法開發"},{"start":12222.26,"end":12224.26,"text":"我知道 請教說到底有沒有藥物上面"},{"start":12224.26,"end":12226.26,"text":"目前的確是都沒有"},{"start":12226.26,"end":12228.26,"text":"所以這樣的話"},{"start":12228.26,"end":12230.26,"text":"我們第一線的輔導的老師"},{"start":12230.26,"end":12232.26,"text":"他就要"},{"start":12232.26,"end":12234.26,"text":"剛才我們剛剛提到因為新鮮毒品太多種了"},{"start":12234.26,"end":12236.26,"text":"是 所以說部長我想請教一下"},{"start":12238.75,"end":12240.75,"text":"因為校園內他涉毒的學生"},{"start":12240.75,"end":12242.75,"text":"他的個案"},{"start":12242.75,"end":12244.75,"text":"一下子可能要面對的是新分劑"},{"start":12244.75,"end":12246.75,"text":"一下子可能要面對的是"},{"start":12246.75,"end":12248.75,"text":"益子劑 也就是說毒品的樣態"},{"start":12248.75,"end":12250.75,"text":"不同 那輔導老師他要怎麼樣能夠"},{"start":12250.75,"end":12252.75,"text":"第一時間的來去知道說"},{"start":12252.75,"end":12254.75,"text":"要怎麼樣去介入"},{"start":12254.75,"end":12256.75,"text":"因為他機轉的方式不一樣"},{"start":12256.75,"end":12258.75,"text":"他的神態上面的表現"},{"start":12258.75,"end":12260.75,"text":"也會不同"},{"start":12260.75,"end":12262.75,"text":"所以我要講的是說必須要有一個"},{"start":12262.75,"end":12264.75,"text":"讓輔導老師能夠"},{"start":12264.75,"end":12266.75,"text":"知道的一個指引"},{"start":12266.75,"end":12268.75,"text":"衛福部可能要協助"},{"start":12268.75,"end":12270.75,"text":"我講我們這是跟醫院"},{"start":12270.75,"end":12272.75,"text":"跟這個"},{"start":12272.75,"end":12274.75,"text":"醫院這個在"},{"start":12274.75,"end":12276.75,"text":"跨單位的一個合作"},{"start":12276.75,"end":12278.75,"text":"確實是這樣的"},{"start":12278.27,"end":12280.27,"text":"那當然一方面我們也在這個不同的一個"},{"start":12280.27,"end":12282.27,"text":"陰害的"},{"start":12282.27,"end":12284.27,"text":"這個毒品裡面的一個辨識"},{"start":12284.27,"end":12286.27,"text":"認識 我想我們在"},{"start":12286.27,"end":12288.27,"text":"這個職權訓練裡面"},{"start":12288.27,"end":12290.27,"text":"或者在老師的在職"},{"start":12290.27,"end":12292.27,"text":"這個研習也都有納入"},{"start":12292.27,"end":12294.27,"text":"這樣的一個議題在"},{"start":12294.27,"end":12296.27,"text":"讓老師去認識現在多樣性的"},{"start":12296.27,"end":12298.27,"text":"一個市場 學生最容易"},{"start":12298.27,"end":12300.27,"text":"接觸到的可能的"},{"start":12300.27,"end":12302.27,"text":"這些毒品"},{"start":12302.27,"end":12304.27,"text":"因為我看到你們第五頁有說在研議"},{"start":12304.27,"end":12306.27,"text":"校園毒品跟第十間事件的處理"},{"start":12306.27,"end":12308.27,"text":"流程"},{"start":12308.27,"end":12310.27,"text":"那有實作的指引"},{"start":12310.27,"end":12312.27,"text":"我是肯定這個部分"},{"start":12312.27,"end":12314.27,"text":"因為學校不是醫院"},{"start":12314.27,"end":12316.27,"text":"但是學校要知道狀況"},{"start":12316.27,"end":12318.27,"text":"那這個指引我在"},{"start":12317.22,"end":12319.22,"text":"如果可以的話就是"},{"start":12319.22,"end":12321.22,"text":"更加的精簡簡幾"},{"start":12321.22,"end":12323.22,"text":"不用太多那種"},{"start":12323.22,"end":12325.22,"text":"官式的文章不必"},{"start":12325.22,"end":12327.22,"text":"就把各項毒品精統計後的"},{"start":12327.22,"end":12329.22,"text":"第一項你說從安非納命K-NAMI"},{"start":12329.22,"end":12331.22,"text":"新聞記或者是依托名指"},{"start":12331.22,"end":12333.22,"text":"等等他的階段狀況會是怎樣"},{"start":12333.22,"end":12335.22,"text":"簡單的全部講出來"},{"start":12335.22,"end":12337.22,"text":"讓這個老師們可以"},{"start":12337.22,"end":12339.22,"text":"按圖所計那才可以有"},{"start":12339.22,"end":12341.22,"text":"積極的能夠去舉轉"},{"start":12341.22,"end":12343.22,"text":"包含附上圖片或者是一些"},{"start":12343.22,"end":12345.22,"text":"衛教的這些資訊越簡短"},{"start":12346.06,"end":12348.06,"text":"但是越精準的文字越好"},{"start":12348.06,"end":12350.06,"text":"不用太多東西"},{"start":12350.06,"end":12352.06,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":12352.83,"end":12354.83,"text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員"},{"start":12354.83,"end":12356.83,"text":"接下來請張雅玲委員"},{"start":12366.48,"end":12368.48,"text":"好有請部長"},{"start":12368.54,"end":12370.54,"text":"有請部長"},{"start":12374.78,"end":12376.78,"text":"部長好"},{"start":12376.78,"end":12378.78,"text":"首先還是要請部長"},{"start":12378.78,"end":12380.78,"text":"今天早上有九台教材"},{"start":12380.78,"end":12382.78,"text":"九大工會的教師"},{"start":12382.78,"end":12384.78,"text":"其實有來表達一些意見"},{"start":12384.78,"end":12386.78,"text":"還是希望教育部今天"},{"start":12386.78,"end":12388.78,"text":"想請問一下我們會不會派人過去"},{"start":12388.78,"end":12390.78,"text":"了解他們的訴求"},{"start":12391.35,"end":12397.35,"text":"有有我們人事主任有氣質"},{"start":12397.35,"end":12399.35,"text":"好那我還是希望說"},{"start":12399.35,"end":12401.35,"text":"我們應該還是要積極的來跟大家"},{"start":12401.35,"end":12403.35,"text":"做溝通啦"},{"start":12403.35,"end":12405.35,"text":"那就回到我今天的題目"},{"start":12405.35,"end":12407.35,"text":"就是說教育部在七月的時候宣布"},{"start":12407.35,"end":12409.35,"text":"後續將配合讀為條例"},{"start":12409.35,"end":12411.35,"text":"來去針對校園脫衣快篩"},{"start":12411.35,"end":12413.35,"text":"推動這個校園脫衣快篩"},{"start":12413.35,"end":12415.35,"text":"機制"},{"start":12415.35,"end":12417.35,"text":"那他也會針對依循現在"},{"start":12417.35,"end":12419.35,"text":"做尿檢的方式針對"},{"start":12419.35,"end":12421.35,"text":"特定人員來做篩檢"},{"start":12421.35,"end":12423.35,"text":"那我想問一下這個聽起來"},{"start":12423.35,"end":12425.35,"text":"我的理解是尿檢跟脫衣"},{"start":12425.35,"end":12427.35,"text":"篩檢針對的特定人員的標準"},{"start":12427.35,"end":12429.35,"text":"是一次的嗎"},{"start":12428.92,"end":12430.92,"text":"是的"},{"start":12451.4,"end":12453.4,"text":"那可是呢"},{"start":12453.4,"end":12455.4,"text":"部長我要跟部長說"},{"start":12455.4,"end":12457.4,"text":"我們依據警察"},{"start":12457.4,"end":12459.4,"text":"職權刑事法要對人民"},{"start":12459.4,"end":12461.4,"text":"盤查的時候都必須要有"},{"start":12461.4,"end":12463.4,"text":"合理懷疑"},{"start":12463.4,"end":12465.4,"text":"或有事實主任的具體"},{"start":12465.4,"end":12467.4,"text":"基礎就例如說我昨天"},{"start":12467.4,"end":12469.4,"text":"也才質詢過司法法制的就是"},{"start":12469.4,"end":12471.4,"text":"我們的流性檢察官涉毒"},{"start":12471.4,"end":12473.4,"text":"今年二月的這個案件也是"},{"start":12473.4,"end":12475.4,"text":"一樣就是說我們查到"},{"start":12475.4,"end":12477.4,"text":"他有甲基安非他命的殘渣帶"},{"start":12477.4,"end":12479.4,"text":"我們才進一步做這個尿液"},{"start":12479.4,"end":12481.4,"text":"送驗"},{"start":12481.4,"end":12483.4,"text":"那是為什麼我們到了學生身上"},{"start":12483.4,"end":12485.4,"text":"就只是因為他可能礦課學家庭"},{"start":12485.4,"end":12487.4,"text":"功能不佳"},{"start":12487.4,"end":12489.4,"text":"或者是說他的交友複雜"},{"start":12489.4,"end":12491.4,"text":"就要變成去做毒品"},{"start":12491.4,"end":12493.4,"text":"篩檢呢"},{"start":12493.4,"end":12495.4,"text":"我也要跟部長說我們現在"},{"start":12495.4,"end":12497.4,"text":"其實我看了一下國健署"},{"start":12497.4,"end":12499.4,"text":"從113年你們送驗了"},{"start":12499.4,"end":12501.4,"text":"人次是這樣"},{"start":12501.4,"end":12503.4,"text":"陽性率只有大概"},{"start":12503.4,"end":12505.4,"text":"2%"},{"start":12505.4,"end":12507.4,"text":"所以大概等於說100個人"},{"start":12507.4,"end":12509.4,"text":"就有98個孩子"},{"start":12509.4,"end":12511.4,"text":"可能是無辜的"},{"start":12511.91,"end":12513.91,"text":"這98個孩子可能是會被標籤的"},{"start":12516.08,"end":12518.08,"text":"好所以我想我們這個特定人員"},{"start":12518.08,"end":12520.08,"text":"要如何確保說"},{"start":12520.08,"end":12522.08,"text":"我們今天的具體的判斷"},{"start":12522.08,"end":12524.08,"text":"界線應該要劃在哪裡"},{"start":12524.08,"end":12526.08,"text":"我們是不是可以持續的精進"},{"start":12526.08,"end":12528.08,"text":"我們是不是"},{"start":12528.08,"end":12530.08,"text":"部長是不是同意啦"},{"start":12530.08,"end":12532.08,"text":"因為從這個數字看起來就是這樣"},{"start":12532.08,"end":12534.08,"text":"你篩檢就是有98個孩子"},{"start":12534.08,"end":12536.08,"text":"是無辜的"},{"start":12536.08,"end":12538.08,"text":"這也是我們從教育的觀點"},{"start":12538.08,"end":12540.08,"text":"我們不希望學生因為"},{"start":12540.08,"end":12542.08,"text":"檢察會受標籤"},{"start":12542.08,"end":12544.08,"text":"我們當然有許多的一個"},{"start":12544.08,"end":12546.08,"text":"學生許多的一些"},{"start":12546.08,"end":12548.08,"text":"外在的一些表徵"},{"start":12548.08,"end":12550.08,"text":"然後老師怎麼透過"},{"start":12550.08,"end":12552.08,"text":"關心怎麼樣從預防"},{"start":12552.08,"end":12554.08,"text":"做為治療我相信我們"},{"start":12554.08,"end":12556.08,"text":"我們光國小的學生有"},{"start":12556.08,"end":12558.08,"text":"120萬我們不可能每一個"},{"start":12558.08,"end":12560.08,"text":"所以我們相當程度"},{"start":12560.08,"end":12562.08,"text":"怎麼樣從教育的觀點"},{"start":12562.08,"end":12564.08,"text":"我同意但是我現在的問題"},{"start":12564.08,"end":12566.08,"text":"對但是我現在的問題就是說"},{"start":12566.08,"end":12568.08,"text":"我們的特定人員目前你看起來"},{"start":12568.08,"end":12570.08,"text":"你現在已經行之有年了"},{"start":12570.08,"end":12572.08,"text":"過去是這樣列定沒有"},{"start":12572.08,"end":12574.08,"text":"但是這麼多年來"},{"start":12574.08,"end":12576.08,"text":"其實陽性率就是這麼低"},{"start":12576.08,"end":12578.08,"text":"是應該要檢討"},{"start":12578.08,"end":12580.08,"text":"我想我們怎麼去精進"},{"start":12580.08,"end":12582.08,"text":"那個整個判定"},{"start":12582.08,"end":12584.08,"text":"從更臨床的專業"},{"start":12584.08,"end":12586.08,"text":"也能夠有醫療上專業人力的"},{"start":12586.08,"end":12588.08,"text":"我覺得這個是要"},{"start":12588.08,"end":12590.08,"text":"我們不能夠說他今天"},{"start":12590.08,"end":12592.08,"text":"交友複雜我們就認為"},{"start":12592.08,"end":12594.08,"text":"沒有沒有我會講到不是成為"},{"start":12594.08,"end":12596.08,"text":"一個被快篩的理由"},{"start":12596.08,"end":12598.08,"text":"所以就是說"},{"start":12598.08,"end":12600.08,"text":"那我想再問第二個問題我們現在已經被"},{"start":12600.08,"end":12602.08,"text":"列進去的這些特定"},{"start":12602.08,"end":12604.08,"text":"人員要持續觀察輔導的名單"},{"start":12604.08,"end":12606.08,"text":"多久他可以移出呢"},{"start":12607.27,"end":12609.27,"text":"如果他篩卷出來他真的是無辜的孩子"},{"start":12609.27,"end":12611.27,"text":"第二年他還要被篩嗎"},{"start":12611.27,"end":12613.27,"text":"第三年他還要被篩嗎"},{"start":12612.94,"end":12614.94,"text":"我想要請教一下部長"},{"start":12625.68,"end":12627.68,"text":"這個學生動不動氣"},{"start":12627.68,"end":12629.68,"text":"說這個我們要"},{"start":12629.68,"end":12631.68,"text":"沒關係我就問部長簡單一個問題好了啦"},{"start":12631.68,"end":12633.68,"text":"一個孩子列進這個特定人員名單"},{"start":12633.68,"end":12635.68,"text":"他沒有他篩出來不是"},{"start":12635.68,"end":12637.68,"text":"陽性的他沒有他就會移開嗎"},{"start":12637.68,"end":12639.68,"text":"他就會移除了嗎"},{"start":12640.18,"end":12642.18,"text":"以我們目前來講當然是這樣的"},{"start":12643.1,"end":12645.1,"text":"是嗎我之前聽到的好像"},{"start":12645.1,"end":12647.1,"text":"用會議裡邊來判斷說"},{"start":12647.1,"end":12649.1,"text":"當然有一些"},{"start":12649.1,"end":12651.1,"text":"假設他過去曾經"},{"start":12651.1,"end":12653.1,"text":"有這樣一個經驗"},{"start":12653.1,"end":12655.1,"text":"那當然也許我們怎麼樣去協助他"},{"start":12655.1,"end":12657.1,"text":"那程序上我想"},{"start":12657.1,"end":12659.1,"text":"單一的個案大概我很難"},{"start":12659.1,"end":12661.1,"text":"在這邊把它講清楚"},{"start":12661.1,"end":12663.1,"text":"我現在講的是說一個標準我們的機制流程"},{"start":12663.1,"end":12665.1,"text":"如果這個孩子他被列進"},{"start":12665.1,"end":12667.1,"text":"在特定人員即便你未來的"},{"start":12667.1,"end":12669.1,"text":"標準滾動式修正"},{"start":12669.1,"end":12671.1,"text":"之後更精進可是因為"},{"start":12671.1,"end":12673.1,"text":"可能還是會有一些孩子在這個過程之中"},{"start":12673.1,"end":12675.1,"text":"是無辜的嘛對不對"},{"start":12675.1,"end":12677.1,"text":"那他一旦無辜了之後"},{"start":12677.1,"end":12679.1,"text":"他什麼時候可以離開這個"},{"start":12679.1,"end":12681.1,"text":"特定人員的名單裡面"},{"start":12681.1,"end":12683.1,"text":"這個才是我想跟你討論"},{"start":12683.1,"end":12685.1,"text":"我才想了解的部分"},{"start":12685.1,"end":12687.1,"text":"因為我們就是在講不要去標籤"},{"start":12687.1,"end":12689.1,"text":"孩子嘛這也是這幾年大家很關注的議題"},{"start":12689.1,"end":12691.1,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":12691.1,"end":12693.1,"text":"是不是可以請教育部具體"},{"start":12693.1,"end":12695.1,"text":"的來檢討把這些程序上"},{"start":12695.1,"end":12697.1,"text":"保障好那多久可以給我一份"},{"start":12697.1,"end":12699.1,"text":"報告謝謝委員提醒我想"},{"start":12699.1,"end":12701.1,"text":"這是必要的那我整個程序"},{"start":12701.1,"end":12703.1,"text":"我們再來看這一個"},{"start":12703.1,"end":12705.1,"text":"學校實際的這個"},{"start":12705.1,"end":12707.1,"text":"運作跟這個"},{"start":12707.1,"end":12709.1,"text":"整個機制看怎麼樣"},{"start":12709.1,"end":12711.1,"text":"大概多久可以給我一個報告"},{"start":12711.1,"end":12713.1,"text":"針對我們如何去把這個特定人員"},{"start":12713.1,"end":12715.1,"text":"的標準多些調整"},{"start":12715.1,"end":12717.1,"text":"三個月然後給委員一個比較詳細"},{"start":12717.1,"end":12719.1,"text":"的在未來兩個月好不好年底前"},{"start":12719.1,"end":12721.1,"text":"好不好年底前可以"},{"start":12721.1,"end":12723.1,"text":"12月31號前那抱歉莊委員"},{"start":12723.1,"end":12725.1,"text":"我再佔用一點時間我要講電子"},{"start":12725.1,"end":12727.1,"text":"回收的部分喔"},{"start":12727.1,"end":12729.1,"text":"好因為你剛剛也都超時很久"},{"start":12729.1,"end":12731.1,"text":"再給我兩分鐘就好了好不好"},{"start":12731.1,"end":12733.1,"text":"兩分鐘啦好"},{"start":12733.1,"end":12735.1,"text":"衛福部從9月8號開始呢"},{"start":12735.1,"end":12737.1,"text":"衛福部從9月8號開始設置了"},{"start":12737.1,"end":12739.1,"text":"電子煙回收點目前呢"},{"start":12739.1,"end":12741.1,"text":"抱歉請衛福部"},{"start":12740.6,"end":12742.6,"text":"抱歉請衛福部"},{"start":12742.05,"end":12744.05,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":12743.27,"end":12745.27,"text":"衛福部呢"},{"start":12745.27,"end":12747.27,"text":"目前全台灣從9月8號開始到現在"},{"start":12747.27,"end":12749.27,"text":"總共是回收了"},{"start":12749.27,"end":12751.27,"text":"630公斤"},{"start":12751.27,"end":12753.27,"text":"換算大概是12666支"},{"start":12753.27,"end":12755.27,"text":"那我想問一下"},{"start":12755.27,"end":12757.27,"text":"就是說我們現在你覺得這樣子"},{"start":12757.27,"end":12759.27,"text":"的成績是好的嗎"},{"start":12759.27,"end":12761.27,"text":"你給自己打幾分"},{"start":12761.27,"end":12763.27,"text":"目前應該是說我們針對這個部分先"},{"start":12763.27,"end":12765.27,"text":"建立一個通路啦那至少"},{"start":12765.27,"end":12767.27,"text":"70分這樣子"},{"start":12767.27,"end":12769.27,"text":"我想跟部長說我們這裡距離還非常"},{"start":12769.27,"end":12771.27,"text":"遙遠喔因為以國健署114年的"},{"start":12771.27,"end":12773.27,"text":"青少年吸煙調查"},{"start":12773.27,"end":12775.27,"text":"我們現在的使用率"},{"start":12775.27,"end":12777.27,"text":"國高中生就有4萬名青少年"},{"start":12777.27,"end":12779.27,"text":"正在使用電子煙"},{"start":12779.27,"end":12781.27,"text":"好所以等於是說如果我們假設"},{"start":12781.27,"end":12783.27,"text":"他一人只有一支喔"},{"start":12783.27,"end":12785.27,"text":"你這樣子的回收率其實非常低的喔"},{"start":12785.27,"end":12787.27,"text":"那我想問的下一個問題就是如何"},{"start":12787.27,"end":12789.27,"text":"精進呢因為我看到你們是說"},{"start":12789.27,"end":12791.27,"text":"你們有去做一些廣告"},{"start":12791.27,"end":12793.27,"text":"一些宣傳啊可是事實上"},{"start":12793.27,"end":12795.27,"text":"大家真的知道嗎"},{"start":12795.27,"end":12797.27,"text":"你們說你們有參考新加坡可是我發現"},{"start":12797.27,"end":12799.27,"text":"新加坡其實是有透過學生"},{"start":12799.27,"end":12801.27,"text":"的行政組群生活周遭的公車站"},{"start":12801.27,"end":12803.27,"text":"公車捷運站電影院"},{"start":12803.27,"end":12805.27,"text":"都有做宣導"},{"start":12805.27,"end":12807.27,"text":"主動提升觸及"},{"start":12807.27,"end":12809.27,"text":"最後才用問卷後測來確認"},{"start":12809.27,"end":12811.27,"text":"民眾到底有沒有收到"},{"start":12811.27,"end":12813.27,"text":"這個回收的資訊"},{"start":12813.27,"end":12815.27,"text":"以及知道回收的地點在哪裡"},{"start":12815.27,"end":12817.27,"text":"所以我想要知道你們現在"},{"start":12817.27,"end":12819.27,"text":"的我看不出來你們有針對學生"},{"start":12819.27,"end":12821.27,"text":"有更直接更主動"},{"start":12821.27,"end":12823.27,"text":"因為學生是所有人關注的重點"},{"start":12823.27,"end":12825.27,"text":"所以我想知道你們"},{"start":12825.27,"end":12827.27,"text":"要如何讓因為新法就要上路啦"},{"start":12827.27,"end":12829.27,"text":"最後的時間就在這裡啦"},{"start":12829.27,"end":12831.27,"text":"你要怎麼做因為我們都不希望孩子無辜受罰"},{"start":12831.27,"end":12833.27,"text":"是謝謝委員剛剛的提醒"},{"start":12833.27,"end":12835.27,"text":"那我們這邊其實也有跟"},{"start":12835.27,"end":12837.27,"text":"教育部這邊"},{"start":12837.27,"end":12839.27,"text":"就是校園裡面的一個宣導啦"},{"start":12839.27,"end":12841.27,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":12841.27,"end":12843.27,"text":"但是我剛剛講的就是校園宣導是既有的嘛"},{"start":12843.27,"end":12845.27,"text":"我現在講的就是新加坡他明明就是在"},{"start":12845.27,"end":12847.27,"text":"我的生活學生去電影院"},{"start":12847.27,"end":12849.27,"text":"學生搭公車的地方"},{"start":12849.27,"end":12851.27,"text":"可不可以精進"},{"start":12851.27,"end":12853.27,"text":"因為時間只剩很暴走"},{"start":12853.27,"end":12855.27,"text":"多久可以給我精進方案"},{"start":12855.27,"end":12857.27,"text":"這個部分我們想在"},{"start":12857.27,"end":12859.27,"text":"半個月之內好不好"},{"start":12859.27,"end":12861.27,"text":"兩個禮拜是不是"},{"start":12861.27,"end":12863.27,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12862.35,"end":12864.35,"text":"好謝謝張亞林委員"},{"start":12864.35,"end":12866.35,"text":"接下來請翁曉琳委員"},{"start":12872.94,"end":12874.94,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":12878.15,"end":12880.15,"text":"這邊有請部長"},{"start":12885.8,"end":12887.8,"text":"委員好"},{"start":12945.8,"end":12947.8,"text":"有關於針對毒品的"},{"start":12947.8,"end":12949.8,"text":"尿液篩檢"},{"start":12949.8,"end":12951.8,"text":"以及輔導作業要點"},{"start":12951.8,"end":12953.8,"text":"那麼剛剛前面其他幾個委員"},{"start":12953.8,"end":12955.8,"text":"有提問過"},{"start":12955.8,"end":12957.8,"text":"目前在學校特定人員"},{"start":12957.8,"end":12959.8,"text":"篩檢的部分呢"},{"start":12959.8,"end":12961.8,"text":"除了學生之外那本席其實還"},{"start":12961.8,"end":12963.8,"text":"更關心另外一款"},{"start":12963.8,"end":12965.8,"text":"其中的作業要點裡面要針對"},{"start":12965.8,"end":12967.8,"text":"各級學校編制內的"},{"start":12967.8,"end":12969.8,"text":"校車駕駛人員"},{"start":12969.8,"end":12971.8,"text":"要進行篩檢"},{"start":12971.8,"end":12973.8,"text":"那我們知道其實開校車的駕駛"},{"start":12973.8,"end":12975.8,"text":"因為它涉及到這個學生的"},{"start":12975.8,"end":12977.8,"text":"安全的問題"},{"start":12977.8,"end":12979.8,"text":"所以本席是非常"},{"start":12979.8,"end":12981.8,"text":"支持要在編制內"},{"start":12981.8,"end":12983.8,"text":"針對編制內的校車駕駛人員"},{"start":12983.8,"end":12985.8,"text":"要進行要一篩檢"},{"start":12985.8,"end":12987.8,"text":"但是現在其實也蠻多"},{"start":12987.8,"end":12989.8,"text":"學校他可能自己內部沒有"},{"start":12989.8,"end":12991.8,"text":"編制內的人員"},{"start":12991.8,"end":12993.8,"text":"沒有編制內的駕駛"},{"start":12993.8,"end":12995.8,"text":"也許他是委託給外部的"},{"start":12995.8,"end":12997.8,"text":"廠商外部的客運"},{"start":12997.8,"end":12999.8,"text":"這個來開學生交通車"},{"start":12999.8,"end":13001.8,"text":"所以針對這個校外"},{"start":13001.8,"end":13003.8,"text":"就是委外的這個學生"},{"start":13003.8,"end":13005.8,"text":"交通車的駕駛"},{"start":13005.8,"end":13007.8,"text":"是不是也在"},{"start":13007.65,"end":13009.65,"text":"這個學校裡面的篩檢"},{"start":13009.65,"end":13011.65,"text":"的要點範圍裡面"},{"start":13011.87,"end":13013.87,"text":"也在"},{"start":13013.87,"end":13015.87,"text":"甘偉報告這個契約的"},{"start":13015.87,"end":13017.87,"text":"這個部分我們"},{"start":13018.77,"end":13020.77,"text":"這個部分就是我們是"},{"start":13020.77,"end":13022.77,"text":"編制內"},{"start":13022.77,"end":13024.77,"text":"屬於是那種就是"},{"start":13024.77,"end":13026.77,"text":"屬於是契約這一塊在交通的"},{"start":13026.77,"end":13028.77,"text":"一個部分他們也會有這樣"},{"start":13028.77,"end":13030.77,"text":"驗的一個機制"},{"start":13030.77,"end":13032.77,"text":"你是說就是委外的公司他們自己本身"},{"start":13032.77,"end":13034.77,"text":"會去做相關的"},{"start":13034.77,"end":13036.77,"text":"尿液的"},{"start":13036.77,"end":13038.77,"text":"篩檢但是他們會把這份"},{"start":13038.77,"end":13040.77,"text":"資料也會提供給各級學校裡面"},{"start":13042.77,"end":13044.77,"text":"做定期的"},{"start":13044.77,"end":13046.77,"text":"提供相關資料給學校裡面看嗎"},{"start":13046.77,"end":13048.77,"text":"是然後我們這個驗出來的一個名單"},{"start":13048.77,"end":13050.77,"text":"就會移給警政的單位"},{"start":13050.77,"end":13052.77,"text":"來做一個橫向的連線"},{"start":13052.77,"end":13054.77,"text":"所以這是每個學期都會做的還是"},{"start":13054.77,"end":13056.77,"text":"你們現在有關於這個尿液篩檢的頻率"},{"start":13056.77,"end":13058.77,"text":"次數大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":13058.77,"end":13060.77,"text":"各位報告我們的一個尿液"},{"start":13060.77,"end":13062.77,"text":"的篩檢會有定期跟不定期"},{"start":13062.77,"end":13064.77,"text":"就是通常在學期"},{"start":13064.77,"end":13066.77,"text":"開始開學"},{"start":13066.77,"end":13068.77,"text":"或者是假期後就會有這樣的"},{"start":13068.77,"end":13070.77,"text":"篩因為可能會有一些"},{"start":13070.77,"end":13072.77,"text":"一定都會有篩檢"},{"start":13072.77,"end":13074.77,"text":"定期大概就是一個半年會有一個"},{"start":13074.77,"end":13076.77,"text":"收起性的一個抽檢"},{"start":13076.77,"end":13078.77,"text":"好了解那麼現在因為法務部"},{"start":13078.77,"end":13080.77,"text":"也有提案修法針對毒品"},{"start":13080.77,"end":13082.77,"text":"危害防治條例裡面的規定"},{"start":13082.77,"end":13084.77,"text":"進行修法目前的"},{"start":13084.77,"end":13086.77,"text":"條文規定是指針對尿液篩檢"},{"start":13086.77,"end":13088.77,"text":"未來可能會擴大到有唾液"},{"start":13088.77,"end":13090.77,"text":"篩檢那當然本席這邊有提出"},{"start":13090.77,"end":13092.77,"text":"說是不是未來可以再多"},{"start":13092.77,"end":13094.77,"text":"增加一個篩檢的選項"},{"start":13094.77,"end":13096.77,"text":"針對毛髮篩檢針對這部分"},{"start":13096.77,"end":13098.77,"text":"我不曉得部長您的看法如何"},{"start":13098.77,"end":13100.77,"text":"其實現在針對"},{"start":13100.77,"end":13102.77,"text":"毛髮篩檢的技術也非常的成熟"},{"start":13102.77,"end":13104.77,"text":"而且我們希望從"},{"start":13104.77,"end":13106.77,"text":"尿液到唾液是因為"},{"start":13106.77,"end":13108.77,"text":"唾液更方便"},{"start":13108.77,"end":13110.77,"text":"然後它的效果"},{"start":13110.77,"end":13112.77,"text":"跟這個尿液是一致的"},{"start":13112.77,"end":13114.77,"text":"也就是說從警政署的"},{"start":13114.77,"end":13116.77,"text":"一個data來看"},{"start":13116.77,"end":13118.77,"text":"毛髮變成還要直接對"},{"start":13118.77,"end":13120.77,"text":"當事人的一個身體上的"},{"start":13120.77,"end":13122.77,"text":"一些我想"},{"start":13122.77,"end":13124.77,"text":"至少就目前我認為"},{"start":13124.77,"end":13126.77,"text":"唾液可能是一個相對"},{"start":13126.77,"end":13128.77,"text":"比較好的方式"},{"start":13128.77,"end":13130.77,"text":"針對尿液的意思是一樣的嘛"},{"start":13130.77,"end":13132.77,"text":"毛髮可能對於頭髮多的人"},{"start":13132.77,"end":13134.77,"text":"我想這一個部分就"},{"start":13134.77,"end":13136.77,"text":"我想這個部分是涉及到"},{"start":13136.77,"end":13138.77,"text":"校園安全的問題"},{"start":13138.77,"end":13140.77,"text":"本席也知道其實在很多的"},{"start":13140.77,"end":13142.77,"text":"篩檢它往往就是一個"},{"start":13142.77,"end":13144.77,"text":"個人人權的自由跟公共安全"},{"start":13144.77,"end":13146.77,"text":"之間的一個法醫的衡量"},{"start":13146.77,"end":13148.77,"text":"那麼現在就是不過就是"},{"start":13148.77,"end":13150.77,"text":"多提供一個可以讓未來"},{"start":13150.77,"end":13152.77,"text":"機關學校"},{"start":13152.77,"end":13154.77,"text":"可以進行篩檢的選項"},{"start":13154.77,"end":13156.77,"text":"所以我希望教育部這邊"},{"start":13156.77,"end":13158.77,"text":"也在這裡也許到時候我們"},{"start":13158.77,"end":13160.77,"text":"可以配合法務跟衛福部的相關"},{"start":13160.77,"end":13162.77,"text":"我覺得教育部的意見也很重要"},{"start":13162.77,"end":13164.77,"text":"可能請你們之後可以"},{"start":13164.77,"end":13166.77,"text":"再針對這個部分"},{"start":13166.77,"end":13168.77,"text":"去學校裡面去做一些"},{"start":13168.77,"end":13170.77,"text":"問卷看看適不適合"},{"start":13170.77,"end":13172.77,"text":"好那第二個問題就是"},{"start":13172.77,"end":13174.77,"text":"我們知道這幾天法國的學運的暴動"},{"start":13174.77,"end":13176.77,"text":"非常的嚴重"},{"start":13176.77,"end":13178.77,"text":"那麼為什麼當時"},{"start":13178.77,"end":13180.77,"text":"會有這個學運"},{"start":13181.63,"end":13183.63,"text":"就是因為法國現在面臨到"},{"start":13183.63,"end":13185.63,"text":"嚴重的高中以下的"},{"start":13185.63,"end":13187.63,"text":"老師失資不足的問題"},{"start":13187.63,"end":13189.63,"text":"很多要考大學的學生"},{"start":13189.63,"end":13191.63,"text":"的中學生就發現"},{"start":13191.63,"end":13193.63,"text":"沒有老師可以教數學理化"},{"start":13193.63,"end":13195.63,"text":"等等這些科目"},{"start":13195.63,"end":13197.63,"text":"所以呢就這個部分來講"},{"start":13197.63,"end":13199.63,"text":"當然我認為"},{"start":13199.63,"end":13201.63,"text":"現在台灣情況也是"},{"start":13201.63,"end":13203.63,"text":"我們的失資嚴重的"},{"start":13203.63,"end":13205.63,"text":"尤其高中以下的"},{"start":13205.63,"end":13207.63,"text":"老師失資"},{"start":13207.63,"end":13209.63,"text":"缺額非常的嚴重"},{"start":13209.63,"end":13211.63,"text":"有嚴重不足的情況"},{"start":13211.63,"end":13213.63,"text":"因此剛剛其實我們稍微有提到"},{"start":13213.63,"end":13215.63,"text":"目前其實有幾個委員"},{"start":13215.63,"end":13217.63,"text":"也都有提案未來是不是"},{"start":13217.63,"end":13219.63,"text":"可以將"},{"start":13219.63,"end":13221.63,"text":"退休的老師他在轉任"},{"start":13221.63,"end":13223.63,"text":"在教師"},{"start":13223.63,"end":13225.63,"text":"在學校裡面任教"},{"start":13225.63,"end":13227.63,"text":"的這個基本工資"},{"start":13227.63,"end":13229.63,"text":"的幅度可以提高或者是"},{"start":13229.63,"end":13231.63,"text":"根本就解除因為目前"},{"start":13231.63,"end":13233.63,"text":"如果說是他在各級學校"},{"start":13233.63,"end":13235.63,"text":"裡面兼課等等的所有的總薪資"},{"start":13235.63,"end":13237.63,"text":"加起來超過基本"},{"start":13237.63,"end":13239.63,"text":"基本工資的話那麼他原來"},{"start":13239.63,"end":13241.63,"text":"退休金就不能領但我們認為說"},{"start":13241.63,"end":13243.63,"text":"這也是一個不合理的狀況"},{"start":13243.63,"end":13245.63,"text":"過去在失資原額充足的時候"},{"start":13245.63,"end":13247.63,"text":"也許認為說不應該"},{"start":13247.63,"end":13249.63,"text":"讓退休老師再去佔用"},{"start":13249.63,"end":13251.63,"text":"新進老師的這樣缺額"},{"start":13251.63,"end":13253.63,"text":"但是現在的情況是很多"},{"start":13253.63,"end":13255.63,"text":"高中以下的老師是根本"},{"start":13255.63,"end":13257.63,"text":"高中以下的學校是找不到"},{"start":13257.63,"end":13259.63,"text":"老師"},{"start":13258.75,"end":13260.75,"text":"所以我認為說這個議題"},{"start":13260.75,"end":13262.75,"text":"不知道部長你有沒有去思考"},{"start":13262.75,"end":13264.75,"text":"是不是應該適度的要鬆綁"},{"start":13265.47,"end":13267.47,"text":"謝謝委員我想當然委員所提的"},{"start":13267.47,"end":13271.47,"text":"這是一個方法"},{"start":13271.47,"end":13273.47,"text":"一個方案但是也"},{"start":13273.47,"end":13275.47,"text":"利用這個機會跟委員報告"},{"start":13275.47,"end":13277.47,"text":"我們事實上以現在的"},{"start":13277.47,"end":13279.47,"text":"失資培育的一個樣態"},{"start":13279.47,"end":13281.47,"text":"跟教師檢定的一個考試"},{"start":13281.47,"end":13283.47,"text":"我們每年都只有在六月"},{"start":13283.47,"end":13285.47,"text":"可是我們知道大學生"},{"start":13285.47,"end":13287.47,"text":"或者研究生他為了"},{"start":13287.47,"end":13289.47,"text":"應援他教師的夢"},{"start":13289.47,"end":13291.47,"text":"他寒假也有人寒假"},{"start":13291.47,"end":13293.47,"text":"畢業也有人暑假所以我們"},{"start":13293.47,"end":13295.47,"text":"現在會加考一次的"},{"start":13295.47,"end":13297.47,"text":"明年會加考"},{"start":13297.47,"end":13299.47,"text":"一月會有一個多一次的教師檢定"},{"start":13299.47,"end":13301.47,"text":"好謝謝部長"},{"start":13301.47,"end":13303.47,"text":"因為我們都在大學教書"},{"start":13303.47,"end":13305.47,"text":"我們很清楚知道現在其實"},{"start":13305.47,"end":13307.47,"text":"這個數理化理工科系"},{"start":13307.47,"end":13309.47,"text":"研究所畢業的學生們幾乎沒有人"},{"start":13309.47,"end":13311.47,"text":"想要到學校來教書"},{"start":13311.47,"end":13313.47,"text":"這個我們也委託包含"},{"start":13313.47,"end":13315.47,"text":"昨天的清大的副校長"},{"start":13315.47,"end":13317.47,"text":"我們剛好這兩天"},{"start":13317.47,"end":13319.47,"text":"前兩天是全國資資培育"},{"start":13319.47,"end":13321.47,"text":"現在外面的薪資太高了"},{"start":13321.47,"end":13323.47,"text":"所以說軍工教的薪資不往上提"},{"start":13323.47,"end":13325.47,"text":"然後呢當然未來只能夠"},{"start":13325.47,"end":13327.47,"text":"仰賴退休的老師"},{"start":13327.47,"end":13329.47,"text":"然後拜託他們回學校兼課"},{"start":13329.47,"end":13331.47,"text":"那現在的終點費又如此之低"},{"start":13331.47,"end":13333.47,"text":"那如果願意回來兼課的老師"},{"start":13333.47,"end":13335.47,"text":"其實他們都是對學校有愛的人"},{"start":13335.47,"end":13337.47,"text":"那本行是希望說"},{"start":13337.47,"end":13339.47,"text":"部長您可以去思考"},{"start":13339.47,"end":13341.47,"text":"因為我們幾個委員都有提案"},{"start":13341.47,"end":13343.47,"text":"未來或許這個法案也都會加速前進"},{"start":13343.47,"end":13345.47,"text":"到時候很期待能夠看到"},{"start":13345.47,"end":13347.47,"text":"教育部的提案好嗎"},{"start":13347.38,"end":13349.38,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13349.22,"end":13351.22,"text":"謝謝翁曉琳委員"},{"start":13351.22,"end":13353.22,"text":"接下來請范雲委員質詢"},{"start":13364.52,"end":13366.52,"text":"謝謝蕭委有請部長"},{"start":13366.52,"end":13368.52,"text":"有請部長"},{"start":13373.84,"end":13375.84,"text":"委員好"},{"start":13403.84,"end":13405.84,"text":"下禮拜還有總預算的質詢"},{"start":13405.84,"end":13407.84,"text":"我也會再追問一些"},{"start":13407.84,"end":13409.84,"text":"就是關於教師荒"},{"start":13409.84,"end":13411.84,"text":"還有教師會議"},{"start":13411.84,"end":13413.84,"text":"一些老師權益濫訴等議題"},{"start":13413.84,"end":13415.84,"text":"那今天我就想針對"},{"start":13415.84,"end":13417.84,"text":"不同的議題跟部長溝通"},{"start":13417.84,"end":13419.84,"text":"那第一個今天"},{"start":13419.84,"end":13421.84,"text":"我們召委安排的主題是"},{"start":13421.84,"end":13423.84,"text":"關於這個校園的"},{"start":13423.84,"end":13425.84,"text":"這個反讀"},{"start":13425.84,"end":13427.84,"text":"那我覺得這個議題真的是非常重要"},{"start":13427.84,"end":13429.84,"text":"而且我們不分黨派"},{"start":13429.84,"end":13431.84,"text":"絕對是支持也希望教育部能夠"},{"start":13431.84,"end":13433.84,"text":"做好就是"},{"start":13433.84,"end":13435.84,"text":"不管是擴大追查"},{"start":13435.84,"end":13437.84,"text":"毒品入校的源頭"},{"start":13437.84,"end":13439.84,"text":"源頭是最就是說最嚴重的問題"},{"start":13439.84,"end":13441.84,"text":"還有反讀"},{"start":13441.84,"end":13443.84,"text":"教育應該要納入家庭照顧者"},{"start":13443.84,"end":13445.84,"text":"我想家庭照顧者的警覺"},{"start":13445.84,"end":13447.84,"text":"也很重要"},{"start":13447.84,"end":13449.84,"text":"另外也要提醒教育部"},{"start":13449.84,"end":13451.84,"text":"反讀教育其實年齡層"},{"start":13451.84,"end":13453.84,"text":"要持續往下"},{"start":13453.84,"end":13455.84,"text":"因為現在看到的很多證據"},{"start":13455.84,"end":13457.84,"text":"跟"},{"start":13457.84,"end":13459.84,"text":"資訊他的年齡層"},{"start":13459.84,"end":13461.84,"text":"真的往下發展的非常迅速"},{"start":13461.84,"end":13463.84,"text":"那最後呢"},{"start":13463.84,"end":13465.84,"text":"也要提醒教育部"},{"start":13465.84,"end":13467.84,"text":"就是調查發現"},{"start":13467.84,"end":13469.84,"text":"每八位青少年就有一位感到孤寂"},{"start":13469.84,"end":13471.84,"text":"那毒品呢"},{"start":13471.84,"end":13473.84,"text":"就會趁虛而入"},{"start":13473.84,"end":13475.84,"text":"所以心理輔導機制也很重要"},{"start":13475.84,"end":13477.84,"text":"那這幾個內容"},{"start":13477.84,"end":13479.84,"text":"我之前就有質詢過"},{"start":13479.84,"end":13481.84,"text":"那今天就透過這個主題"},{"start":13481.84,"end":13483.84,"text":"再次提醒教育部"},{"start":13483.84,"end":13485.84,"text":"這樣子教育部可以從各方面都去努力"},{"start":13485.84,"end":13487.84,"text":"這樣子OK嗎"},{"start":13487.84,"end":13489.84,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":13489.84,"end":13491.84,"text":"委員本身也是在這個領域裡面"},{"start":13491.84,"end":13493.84,"text":"是一個專家"},{"start":13493.84,"end":13495.84,"text":"所以委員所提出的也是"},{"start":13495.84,"end":13497.84,"text":"我們要在未來要來積極的"},{"start":13497.84,"end":13499.84,"text":"特別家庭教育家庭的照顧者"},{"start":13499.84,"end":13501.84,"text":"年齡的往下"},{"start":13501.84,"end":13503.84,"text":"我想這都是非常有價值的包含"},{"start":13503.84,"end":13505.84,"text":"這一個怎麼樣去"},{"start":13505.84,"end":13507.84,"text":"協助青少年在發展"},{"start":13507.84,"end":13509.84,"text":"心理的一些知識"},{"start":13509.84,"end":13511.84,"text":"不要讓他有一些覺得"},{"start":13511.84,"end":13513.84,"text":"很孤單"},{"start":13513.84,"end":13515.84,"text":"然後有一些更多的一些知識"},{"start":13515.84,"end":13517.84,"text":"所以講話這個心理輔導機制"},{"start":13517.84,"end":13519.84,"text":"都是非常有價值的"},{"start":13519.84,"end":13521.84,"text":"那我知道教育部"},{"start":13521.84,"end":13523.84,"text":"尤其是部長非常重視反毒的議題"},{"start":13523.84,"end":13525.84,"text":"那我們就會持續監督"},{"start":13525.84,"end":13527.84,"text":"看未來的成效怎麼樣"},{"start":13527.84,"end":13529.84,"text":"那今天有另外一個題目"},{"start":13529.84,"end":13531.84,"text":"我想跟部長討論"},{"start":13531.84,"end":13533.84,"text":"部長應該有看到"},{"start":13533.84,"end":13535.84,"text":"這兩天的新聞"},{"start":13535.84,"end":13537.84,"text":"就是青大校長"},{"start":13537.84,"end":13539.84,"text":"你看到我看這個"},{"start":13539.84,"end":13541.84,"text":"不管是哪個立場"},{"start":13541.84,"end":13543.84,"text":"被認為立場有不同的報紙"},{"start":13543.84,"end":13545.84,"text":"其實都認為"},{"start":13547.84,"end":13549.84,"text":"青大校務會議"},{"start":13549.84,"end":13551.84,"text":"針對校長是不是"},{"start":13551.84,"end":13553.84,"text":"到其他的大學"},{"start":13553.84,"end":13555.84,"text":"就美國的大學"},{"start":13555.84,"end":13557.84,"text":"找工作這件事情"},{"start":13557.84,"end":13559.84,"text":"想要更進一步的監督"},{"start":13559.84,"end":13561.84,"text":"可是被技術性流會"},{"start":13561.84,"end":13563.84,"text":"不管是哪個報紙都認為是行政優勢"},{"start":13563.84,"end":13565.84,"text":"刻意技術性流會"},{"start":13565.84,"end":13567.84,"text":"那你看其中有講"},{"start":13567.84,"end":13569.84,"text":"我們的記者寫到說"},{"start":13569.84,"end":13571.84,"text":"校長"},{"start":13571.84,"end":13573.84,"text":"行政優勢掌握校務代表"},{"start":13573.84,"end":13575.84,"text":"30多人等"},{"start":13575.84,"end":13577.84,"text":"在應出席的126名"},{"start":13577.84,"end":13579.84,"text":"校務代表中掌握多數"},{"start":13579.84,"end":13581.84,"text":"所以未來就算一個月"},{"start":13581.84,"end":13583.84,"text":"再加開校務會議"},{"start":13583.84,"end":13585.84,"text":"仍是對校長有利"},{"start":13585.84,"end":13587.84,"text":"這個新聞部長應該也非常關心"},{"start":13587.84,"end":13589.84,"text":"有看到"},{"start":13589.21,"end":13591.21,"text":"那甚至還有不同的報紙"},{"start":13591.21,"end":13593.21,"text":"中時還批說"},{"start":13593.21,"end":13595.21,"text":"這個是"},{"start":13595.21,"end":13597.21,"text":"校務會議保皇黨刻意阻撓"},{"start":13597.21,"end":13599.21,"text":"臨時侵華"},{"start":13599.21,"end":13601.21,"text":"那我想這件事情就讓我們提到"},{"start":13601.21,"end":13603.21,"text":"校務會議目前的結構"},{"start":13603.21,"end":13605.21,"text":"到底是不是"},{"start":13605.21,"end":13607.21,"text":"就是對一方特別的有利"},{"start":13607.21,"end":13609.21,"text":"讓監督沒有辦法進行"},{"start":13609.21,"end":13611.21,"text":"我想這件事情是我想跟"},{"start":13611.21,"end":13613.21,"text":"教育部討論的"},{"start":13613.21,"end":13615.21,"text":"那另外我知道剛剛"},{"start":13615.21,"end":13617.21,"text":"陳秀寶委員也有質詢"},{"start":13617.21,"end":13619.21,"text":"這題"},{"start":13619.21,"end":13621.21,"text":"教育部也已經到世新大學"},{"start":13621.21,"end":13623.21,"text":"去訪試"},{"start":13623.21,"end":13625.21,"text":"因為剛剛兩位委員都多兩分鐘"},{"start":13625.21,"end":13627.21,"text":"所以我就繼續"},{"start":13627.21,"end":13629.21,"text":"盡速讓他質詢完"},{"start":13629.21,"end":13631.21,"text":"那部長應該也知道了"},{"start":13631.21,"end":13633.21,"text":"就是世新的學生"},{"start":13633.21,"end":13635.21,"text":"師生面臨到"},{"start":13635.21,"end":13637.21,"text":"戲辦突然"},{"start":13637.21,"end":13639.21,"text":"有一天被裁測了"},{"start":13639.4,"end":13641.4,"text":"然後呢還有職員就被砍星"},{"start":13641.4,"end":13643.4,"text":"然後"},{"start":13643.4,"end":13645.4,"text":"師生無所適從"},{"start":13645.4,"end":13647.4,"text":"然後校務資金的"},{"start":13647.4,"end":13649.4,"text":"配置被認為是"},{"start":13649.4,"end":13651.4,"text":"有爭議的"},{"start":13651.4,"end":13653.4,"text":"因為圖書館加裝了KTV"},{"start":13653.4,"end":13655.4,"text":"PS5"},{"start":13655.4,"end":13657.4,"text":"然後世新的學生抱怨"},{"start":13657.4,"end":13659.4,"text":"課程所需的專業軟體"},{"start":13659.4,"end":13661.4,"text":"卻沒有"},{"start":13661.4,"end":13663.4,"text":"卻沒有"},{"start":13663.4,"end":13665.4,"text":"辦法提供"},{"start":13665.4,"end":13667.4,"text":"那當然有教授"},{"start":13667.4,"end":13669.4,"text":"他自己在網路上說他很勇敢的"},{"start":13669.4,"end":13671.4,"text":"站出來連署"},{"start":13671.4,"end":13673.4,"text":"抗議最後卻被校方"},{"start":13673.4,"end":13675.4,"text":"壓制然後入校"},{"start":13675.4,"end":13677.4,"text":"還要身份查驗"},{"start":13677.4,"end":13679.4,"text":"那還有呢"},{"start":13679.4,"end":13681.4,"text":"最近還發生了學校"},{"start":13681.4,"end":13683.4,"text":"辦小巨蛋的校慶"},{"start":13683.4,"end":13685.4,"text":"學生當場想要"},{"start":13685.4,"end":13687.4,"text":"就是表達一點抗議還出現了"},{"start":13687.4,"end":13689.4,"text":"黑衣人那當然事實"},{"start":13689.4,"end":13691.4,"text":"是不是這樣子我當然就是說"},{"start":13691.4,"end":13693.4,"text":"我們我有受到學生的"},{"start":13693.4,"end":13695.4,"text":"陳情看到一些學生"},{"start":13695.4,"end":13697.4,"text":"提供的訊息但是我們還是覺得"},{"start":13697.4,"end":13699.4,"text":"這個是不是如此需要"},{"start":13699.4,"end":13701.4,"text":"教育部查證"},{"start":13701.4,"end":13703.4,"text":"那教育部現在有去"},{"start":13703.4,"end":13705.4,"text":"世新訪查了那可不可以"},{"start":13705.4,"end":13707.4,"text":"簡單再講一下就是"},{"start":13707.4,"end":13709.4,"text":"你們會怎麼樣如果第一個"},{"start":13709.4,"end":13711.4,"text":"有沒有失身權益受傷第二個"},{"start":13711.4,"end":13713.4,"text":"教育部會怎麼做呢"},{"start":13713.8,"end":13715.8,"text":"委員"},{"start":13715.8,"end":13717.8,"text":"有關於10月20號入校的"},{"start":13717.8,"end":13719.8,"text":"一個調查的結果我們不是"},{"start":13719.8,"end":13721.8,"text":"只有訪談那個行政人員"},{"start":13721.8,"end":13723.8,"text":"我們同時也有跟學生做談"},{"start":13723.8,"end":13725.8,"text":"那針對學生所提出來的"},{"start":13725.8,"end":13727.8,"text":"四個需求裡頭因為"},{"start":13727.8,"end":13729.8,"text":"學校在"},{"start":13729.53,"end":13731.53,"text":"相關的這個新的措施"},{"start":13731.53,"end":13733.53,"text":"實施的時候沒有充分的跟"},{"start":13733.53,"end":13735.53,"text":"師生有溝通"},{"start":13735.53,"end":13737.53,"text":"導致學校學生"},{"start":13737.53,"end":13739.53,"text":"在這個學期入學的時候"},{"start":13739.53,"end":13741.53,"text":"才知道沒有戲辦那針對"},{"start":13741.53,"end":13743.53,"text":"這個沒有妥善溝通就"},{"start":13743.53,"end":13745.53,"text":"實施新制的這樣的一個作為我們"},{"start":13745.53,"end":13747.53,"text":"是表達就是說"},{"start":13747.53,"end":13749.53,"text":"如果溝通了之後他們原來的這些"},{"start":13749.53,"end":13751.53,"text":"作為還是傷害師生權益的話"},{"start":13751.53,"end":13753.53,"text":"那怎麼辦呢我們有幾個"},{"start":13753.53,"end":13755.53,"text":"作為第一個就是有關於"},{"start":13755.53,"end":13757.53,"text":"如果真繼續引發"},{"start":13757.53,"end":13759.53,"text":"爭議的話我們會建議學校暫緩"},{"start":13759.53,"end":13761.53,"text":"實施新制就是還是"},{"start":13761.53,"end":13763.53,"text":"維護學生權益為基礎"},{"start":13763.53,"end":13765.53,"text":"那第二個部分"},{"start":13765.53,"end":13767.53,"text":"就是引發爭議重點應該是"},{"start":13767.53,"end":13769.53,"text":"有沒有傷害師生權益吧"},{"start":13769.53,"end":13771.53,"text":"不能說學生沒有力氣老師不敢"},{"start":13771.53,"end":13773.53,"text":"發聲了就是沒有爭議"},{"start":13773.53,"end":13775.53,"text":"這個部分就是以學生學習"},{"start":13775.53,"end":13777.53,"text":"權益為主我們會來"},{"start":13777.53,"end":13779.53,"text":"就是監督學校那剛才"},{"start":13779.53,"end":13781.53,"text":"我們也有表達我們的立場就是說"},{"start":13781.53,"end":13783.53,"text":"後續如果真的有"},{"start":13783.53,"end":13785.53,"text":"認定說有需要裁罰"},{"start":13785.53,"end":13787.53,"text":"我們會把它拿到所謂的獎補助款"},{"start":13787.53,"end":13789.53,"text":"或者是招生名額的時候我們會再來"},{"start":13789.53,"end":13791.53,"text":"做進一步的處置"},{"start":13791.53,"end":13793.53,"text":"我想那個師生的權益"},{"start":13793.53,"end":13795.53,"text":"然後不能連發聲都被學校關切"},{"start":13795.53,"end":13797.53,"text":"那這個是不對等的"},{"start":13797.53,"end":13799.53,"text":"權利關係我想這部分我們會"},{"start":13799.53,"end":13801.53,"text":"繼續監督陳秀寶委員我相信他也會"},{"start":13801.53,"end":13803.53,"text":"監督所以我想用這個例子講"},{"start":13803.53,"end":13805.53,"text":"不管是青大或者是"},{"start":13805.53,"end":13807.53,"text":"世新的案子都看到"},{"start":13807.53,"end":13809.53,"text":"校務會議中學生"},{"start":13809.53,"end":13811.53,"text":"師生沒有辦法透過"},{"star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14028.13,"text":"就已經達到"},{"start":14028.13,"end":14030.13,"text":"1459件了"},{"start":14030.71,"end":14032.71,"text":"那政府"},{"start":14032.71,"end":14034.71,"text":"從106年開始推動"},{"start":14034.71,"end":14036.71,"text":"新世代反毒的策略行動"},{"start":14036.71,"end":14038.71,"text":"那前兩期"},{"start":14038.71,"end":14040.71,"text":"編了265億"},{"start":14040.71,"end":14042.71,"text":"第三期編了"},{"start":14042.71,"end":14044.71,"text":"150億"},{"start":14044.71,"end":14046.71,"text":"投入了3300億的"},{"start":14046.71,"end":14048.71,"text":"經費"},{"start":14048.71,"end":14050.71,"text":"那根據省紀部"},{"start":14050.71,"end":14052.71,"text":"的一個結算審核"},{"start":14052.71,"end":14054.71,"text":"報告當中"},{"start":14054.71,"end":14056.71,"text":"我們的國中生"},{"start":14057.66,"end":14059.66,"text":"這個毒品的一個濫用"},{"start":14059.66,"end":14061.66,"text":"成長了7成"},{"start":14061.66,"end":14063.66,"text":"我們高中生成長了9成"},{"start":14063.66,"end":14065.66,"text":"那麼我現在要請問"},{"start":14065.49,"end":14067.49,"text":"我們花了這麼多的一個金會"},{"start":14067.49,"end":14069.49,"text":"那我們這樣的一個"},{"start":14069.49,"end":14071.49,"text":"的結果"},{"start":14071.49,"end":14073.49,"text":"成果"},{"start":14072.84,"end":14074.84,"text":"我想各位"},{"start":14074.84,"end":14076.84,"text":"相關的部會應該是不會滿意吧"},{"start":14076.84,"end":14078.84,"text":"那現在呢"},{"start":14078.84,"end":14080.84,"text":"這個校園毒品"},{"start":14080.84,"end":14082.84,"text":"患難這麼嚴重"},{"start":14082.84,"end":14084.84,"text":"我們是不是請我們四個部會"},{"start":14084.84,"end":14086.84,"text":"以一分鐘的時間"},{"start":14086.84,"end":14088.84,"text":"依序來做跟社會還有跟家長"},{"start":14088.84,"end":14090.84,"text":"社會大眾說明一下"},{"start":14090.84,"end":14092.84,"text":"首先請曾部長"},{"start":14094.32,"end":14096.32,"text":"我想當然這個"},{"start":14096.32,"end":14098.32,"text":"研毒的妨礙這個教育部"},{"start":14098.32,"end":14100.32,"text":"在預防這個部分"},{"start":14100.32,"end":14102.32,"text":"我們責無旁貸"},{"start":14102.32,"end":14104.32,"text":"我們從教育的觀點希望學生"},{"start":14104.32,"end":14106.32,"text":"能夠避免接觸到毒品"},{"start":14106.32,"end":14108.32,"text":"然後及早發現及早來"},{"start":14108.32,"end":14110.32,"text":"協助那剛才委員的統計"},{"start":14110.32,"end":14112.32,"text":"一個是電子菸電子菸"},{"start":14112.32,"end":14114.32,"text":"在過去就法令上來講"},{"start":14114.32,"end":14116.32,"text":"當然我們不希望他能夠"},{"start":14116.32,"end":14118.32,"text":"擁有電子菸但是"},{"start":14118.32,"end":14120.32,"text":"現在已經電子菸可以變成"},{"start":14120.32,"end":14122.32,"text":"當然現在會沒入嘛"},{"start":14122.32,"end":14124.32,"text":"那我想這個我們"},{"start":14124.32,"end":14126.32,"text":"從教育的觀點我們希望"},{"start":14126.32,"end":14128.32,"text":"青少年能夠掩離淹害"},{"start":14128.32,"end":14130.32,"text":"然後校園這個"},{"start":14130.32,"end":14132.32,"text":"零容忍這個研毒"},{"start":14132.32,"end":14134.32,"text":"進入到校園我想這是我們"},{"start":14134.32,"end":14136.32,"text":"一貫的一個立場我們也繼續在"},{"start":14136.32,"end":14138.32,"text":"這個為青少年的一個發展"},{"start":14138.32,"end":14140.32,"text":"心理做把關"},{"start":14140.32,"end":14142.32,"text":"那我們希望這個數字"},{"start":14142.32,"end":14144.32,"text":"不要一直往上升啦"},{"start":14144.32,"end":14146.32,"text":"第二位是衛福部"},{"start":14146.32,"end":14148.32,"text":"那有關"},{"start":14148.32,"end":14150.32,"text":"近年的這個校園其實他在"},{"start":14150.32,"end":14152.32,"text":"今年是有稍微上升起來"},{"start":14152.32,"end":14154.32,"text":"那主要在電子菸的問題"},{"start":14154.32,"end":14156.32,"text":"電子菸是一個新興毒品"},{"start":14156.32,"end":14158.32,"text":"所以在之前其實投資的"},{"start":14158.32,"end":14160.32,"text":"那個三百億應該很多是在做"},{"start":14160.32,"end":14162.32,"text":"做這個原來的那個"},{"start":14162.32,"end":14164.32,"text":"注射的毒品還有K-TAMI這些"},{"start":14164.32,"end":14166.32,"text":"那所以針對新興的毒品"},{"start":14166.32,"end":14168.32,"text":"這一塊就是比如說像這個"},{"start":14168.32,"end":14170.32,"text":"電子菸部分我們最近其實也"},{"start":14170.32,"end":14172.32,"text":"已經修法就是菸癌防治法"},{"start":14172.32,"end":14174.32,"text":"那這個針對的部分就是針對"},{"start":14174.32,"end":14176.32,"text":"現在持有沒有辦法"},{"start":14176.32,"end":14178.32,"text":"去罰嘛那所以我們已經"},{"start":14178.32,"end":14180.32,"text":"修了法那現在就持有還有使用"},{"start":14180.32,"end":14182.32,"text":"都會都會有行政法"},{"start":14182.32,"end":14184.32,"text":"另外針對這個進口"},{"start":14184.32,"end":14186.32,"text":"進口這個製造"},{"start":14186.32,"end":14188.32,"text":"出入這個都會有"},{"start":14188.32,"end":14190.32,"text":"會有這個行政這個刑事法"},{"start":14190.32,"end":14192.32,"text":"這個部分也會加重罰款以上"},{"start":14192.32,"end":14194.32,"text":"好我們希望就是說這樣"},{"start":14194.32,"end":14196.32,"text":"一個配套我們"},{"start":14196.32,"end":14198.32,"text":"我們的目標都一致的啦就是"},{"start":14198.32,"end":14200.32,"text":"我們的這一個比例不能一直"},{"start":14200.32,"end":14202.32,"text":"往上升花這麼多錢"},{"start":14202.32,"end":14204.32,"text":"一定要往下好那第三位"},{"start":14204.32,"end":14206.32,"text":"我們我們請法務部"},{"start":14206.32,"end":14208.32,"text":"啊 房市長"},{"start":14208.32,"end":14210.32,"text":"跟委員報告那關於"},{"start":14210.32,"end":14212.32,"text":"下嚴毒品的防治我們主要是"},{"start":14212.32,"end":14214.32,"text":"跟捷爾教育部還有"},{"start":14214.32,"end":14216.32,"text":"內政部衛福部等單位我們由"},{"start":14216.32,"end":14218.32,"text":"地檢署的檢察官官務人"},{"start":14218.32,"end":14220.32,"text":"到國中小進行"},{"start":14220.32,"end":14222.32,"text":"反毒的宣討那另外我們也"},{"start":14222.32,"end":14224.32,"text":"115年我們也跟"},{"start":14224.32,"end":14226.32,"text":"19個直轄市縣市的毒王中心"},{"start":14226.32,"end":14228.32,"text":"有辦理這個前進社區"},{"start":14228.32,"end":14230.32,"text":"的反毒講座將依托明子"},{"start":14230.32,"end":14232.32,"text":"列為強化宣導的重點希望"},{"start":14232.32,"end":14234.32,"text":"能夠降低這個吸食的這個"},{"start":14234.32,"end":14236.32,"text":"比例還有吸食人口"},{"start":14236.32,"end":14238.32,"text":"好那我們希望"},{"start":14238.32,"end":14240.32,"text":"在這樣一個巡迴下嚴的同時"},{"start":14240.32,"end":14242.32,"text":"我剛剛講的目標都"},{"start":14242.32,"end":14244.32,"text":"一樣我們希望這個"},{"start":14244.32,"end":14246.32,"text":"在下嚴的一個毒品的一個狀況能夠"},{"start":14247.74,"end":14249.74,"text":"減緩好謝謝"},{"start":14249.74,"end":14251.74,"text":"那最後我們請政府署長"},{"start":14251.74,"end":14253.74,"text":"行政署處處長"},{"start":14253.47,"end":14255.47,"text":"報告委員這個"},{"start":14255.47,"end":14257.47,"text":"校園的毒品狀況"},{"start":14257.47,"end":14259.47,"text":"其實跟整個大社會的"},{"start":14259.47,"end":14261.47,"text":"毒品的趨勢是差不多"},{"start":14261.47,"end":14263.47,"text":"那最近這個毒品"},{"start":14263.47,"end":14265.47,"text":"校園毒品的這個案件"},{"start":14265.47,"end":14267.47,"text":"會增加大部分"},{"start":14267.47,"end":14269.47,"text":"出在於電子菸"},{"start":14269.47,"end":14271.47,"text":"也就是依托明子的這個"},{"start":14271.47,"end":14273.47,"text":"吸食的部分這個案件"},{"start":14273.47,"end":14275.47,"text":"有蠻大比例的一個增加"},{"start":14275.47,"end":14277.47,"text":"那這個部分當然"},{"start":14277.47,"end":14279.47,"text":"也是我們目前警方"},{"start":14279.47,"end":14281.47,"text":"現在正在處理"},{"start":14281.47,"end":14283.47,"text":"這個毒價或者校園藥頭"},{"start":14283.47,"end":14285.47,"text":"對主要的一個重點"},{"start":14285.47,"end":14287.47,"text":"那也當然"},{"start":14287.47,"end":14289.47,"text":"這些建樹會增加"},{"start":14289.47,"end":14291.47,"text":"其實也代表著警方"},{"start":14291.47,"end":14293.47,"text":"很強大的一個"},{"start":14293.47,"end":14295.47,"text":"取締的一個能量"},{"start":14295.47,"end":14297.47,"text":"在嚇阻這個毒品"},{"start":14297.47,"end":14299.47,"text":"那我想我們警政署"},{"start":14299.47,"end":14301.47,"text":"就配合這個教育部"},{"start":14301.47,"end":14303.47,"text":"以及相關的單位"},{"start":14303.47,"end":14305.47,"text":"大家一起共同來防治"},{"start":14305.47,"end":14307.47,"text":"這些新興毒品以上"},{"start":14307.47,"end":14309.47,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":14309.47,"end":14311.47,"text":"因為這個國內的毒品"},{"start":14311.47,"end":14313.47,"text":"現在變成是"},{"start":14313.47,"end":14315.47,"text":"也是一個國家維安的問題"},{"start":14315.47,"end":14317.47,"text":"所以我們必須跨部會"},{"start":14317.47,"end":14319.47,"text":"大家來同心協力"},{"start":14319.47,"end":14321.47,"text":"看如何讓我們國內的一個毒品"},{"start":14321.47,"end":14323.47,"text":"如何降低"},{"start":14323.47,"end":14325.47,"text":"不要我們剛剛講那個線"},{"start":14325.47,"end":14327.47,"text":"那個線不要"},{"start":14327.47,"end":14329.47,"text":"一直往上我們花了這麼多"},{"start":14329.47,"end":14331.47,"text":"的經費然後用了這麼多"},{"start":14331.47,"end":14333.47,"text":"的人力讓我們的"},{"start":14333.47,"end":14335.47,"text":"我們希望我們未來的KPI"},{"start":14335.47,"end":14337.47,"text":"是要往下"},{"start":14337.47,"end":14339.47,"text":"以上請三位就座"},{"start":14339.47,"end":14341.47,"text":"最後第二題我們要請教"},{"start":14341.47,"end":14343.47,"text":"部長"},{"start":14344.67,"end":14346.67,"text":"在6月19號的時候"},{"start":14346.67,"end":14348.67,"text":"本席在那個教文委員會"},{"start":14348.67,"end":14350.67,"text":"有執行到就是說"},{"start":14350.67,"end":14352.67,"text":"部長您有說9月"},{"start":14352.67,"end":14354.67,"text":"就會引入那個"},{"start":14354.67,"end":14356.67,"text":"唾液的一個快篩"},{"start":14356.67,"end":14358.67,"text":"這個準確度有"},{"start":14358.67,"end":14360.67,"text":"高達到96%以上"},{"start":14360.67,"end":14362.67,"text":"那而且同時"},{"start":14362.67,"end":14364.67,"text":"就可以檢查出"},{"start":14364.67,"end":14366.67,"text":"檢查出"},{"start":14366.67,"end":14368.67,"text":"一多米芝的一個"},{"start":14368.67,"end":14370.67,"text":"毒品那麼現在已經10月了"},{"start":14370.67,"end":14372.67,"text":"那請問一下這個已經"},{"start":14372.67,"end":14374.67,"text":"已經開學快"},{"start":14374.67,"end":14376.67,"text":"兩個月了那教育部對這個"},{"start":14376.67,"end":14378.67,"text":"唾液的一個快篩上路了嗎"},{"start":14379.33,"end":14381.33,"text":"上路了嗎"},{"start":14381.33,"end":14383.33,"text":"因為我們現有的法令的規定是"},{"start":14383.33,"end":14385.33,"text":"校園是用"},{"start":14385.33,"end":14387.33,"text":"尿塞"},{"start":14388.52,"end":14390.52,"text":"做尿塞那因為我們現在這個"},{"start":14390.52,"end":14392.52,"text":"衛福部的這個"},{"start":14392.52,"end":14394.52,"text":"危害防治法裡面"},{"start":14394.52,"end":14396.52,"text":"已經有在立法院的二讀"},{"start":14396.52,"end":14398.52,"text":"那通過以後我們在警政署"},{"start":14398.52,"end":14400.52,"text":"的協助我們也會"},{"start":14400.52,"end":14402.52,"text":"這個快速的來採購然後"},{"start":14402.52,"end":14404.52,"text":"來支持地方政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這樣來協助"},{"start":14636.03,"end":14638.03,"text":"年輕人不要接觸到這個"},{"start":14638.03,"end":14640.03,"text":"部長你說的這個"},{"start":14640.03,"end":14642.03,"text":"這麼大的一個網可以來"},{"start":14642.03,"end":14644.03,"text":"幫忙我們的學生"},{"start":14644.03,"end":14646.03,"text":"戒毒的這樣一個機制"},{"start":14646.03,"end":14648.03,"text":"那顯然"},{"start":14648.03,"end":14650.03,"text":"現在這個成績"},{"start":14650.03,"end":14652.03,"text":"看出來也沒有發揮作用"},{"start":14652.03,"end":14654.03,"text":"沒有發揮很大的 我想"},{"start":14654.03,"end":14656.03,"text":"毒品的樣態一直在改變"},{"start":14656.03,"end":14658.03,"text":"所以他對年輕人"},{"start":14658.03,"end":14660.03,"text":"多這個因為好奇或者"},{"start":14660.03,"end":14662.03,"text":"甚至以為是在"},{"start":14662.03,"end":14664.03,"text":"喝珍珠奶茶的"},{"start":14664.03,"end":14666.03,"text":"這樣一個家長也不容易發現"},{"start":14666.03,"end":14668.03,"text":"所以這一個部分當然"},{"start":14668.03,"end":14670.03,"text":"面臨著一些更大的"},{"start":14670.03,"end":14671.03,"text":"挑戰"},{"start":14671.03,"end":14673.03,"text":"我現在要告訴部長說"},{"start":14673.03,"end":14675.03,"text":"李倩不聽還有一個機制好像一直都沒有"},{"start":14675.03,"end":14677.03,"text":"用到就是所謂的少年"},{"start":14677.03,"end":14679.03,"text":"輔導委員會"},{"start":14679.03,"end":14681.03,"text":"這個少年輔導委員會呢"},{"start":14681.03,"end":14683.03,"text":"他可以"},{"start":14683.03,"end":14685.03,"text":"幫忙這學生呢"},{"start":14685.03,"end":14687.03,"text":"從多方面結合"},{"start":14687.03,"end":14689.03,"text":"結合福利教育心理醫療"},{"start":14689.03,"end":14691.03,"text":"衛生戶政警政財政"},{"start":14691.03,"end":14693.03,"text":"甚至金融機關"},{"start":14693.03,"end":14695.03,"text":"很多相關的"},{"start":14695.03,"end":14697.03,"text":"對青少年"},{"start":14697.03,"end":14699.03,"text":"做一個適當的"},{"start":14699.03,"end":14701.03,"text":"輔導"},{"start":14701.03,"end":14703.03,"text":"這個"},{"start":14703.03,"end":14705.03,"text":"部長你清楚嗎"},{"start":14705.03,"end":14707.03,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實現在"},{"start":14707.03,"end":14709.03,"text":"如果學校有需要他是會轉請"},{"start":14709.03,"end":14711.03,"text":"這個少年輔導會來協助"},{"start":14711.03,"end":14713.03,"text":"那以後怎麼把這樣一個關係"},{"start":14713.03,"end":14715.03,"text":"能夠更積極"},{"start":14715.03,"end":14717.03,"text":"更緊密的我想我們來"},{"start":14717.03,"end":14719.03,"text":"這個跟上午會有更加期待見到"},{"start":14719.03,"end":14721.03,"text":"那我們是不是請一下警政"},{"start":14721.03,"end":14723.03,"text":"署長來說明一下"},{"start":14723.03,"end":14725.03,"text":"所謂的少年法庭"},{"start":14725.03,"end":14727.03,"text":"他還可以幫忙學校哪一些"},{"start":14727.03,"end":14729.03,"text":"這些涉堵的"},{"start":14729.03,"end":14731.03,"text":"學生他可以給"},{"start":14731.03,"end":14733.03,"text":"學校做哪一些的協助"},{"start":14734.3,"end":14736.3,"text":"跟委員報告目前的分工"},{"start":14736.3,"end":14738.3,"text":"第一級第二級"},{"start":14738.3,"end":14740.3,"text":"吸毒品吸食第一級"},{"start":14740.3,"end":14742.3,"text":"第二級是直接由"},{"start":14742.3,"end":14744.3,"text":"少年法庭的這個"},{"start":14744.3,"end":14746.3,"text":"相關的這個"},{"start":14746.3,"end":14748.3,"text":"輔導的機制來做處理"},{"start":14748.39,"end":14750.39,"text":"第三第四級的部分"},{"start":14750.39,"end":14752.39,"text":"是交給少年輔導"},{"start":14752.39,"end":14754.39,"text":"就是警察局的少年輔導委員會"},{"start":14754.39,"end":14756.39,"text":"再來做輔導處理"},{"start":14756.39,"end":14758.39,"text":"那委員剛剛特別遂行的部分"},{"start":14758.39,"end":14760.39,"text":"就是說學校如果發現"},{"start":14760.39,"end":14762.39,"text":"有什麼樣的困難"},{"start":14762.39,"end":14764.39,"text":"或問題的話"},{"start":14764.39,"end":14766.39,"text":"已經理先不聽"},{"start":14766.39,"end":14768.39,"text":"對我們有"},{"start":14768.39,"end":14770.39,"text":"互相的這個通報的機制"},{"start":14770.39,"end":14772.39,"text":"那就四個案"},{"start":14772.39,"end":14774.39,"text":"如果說這個學校認為"},{"start":14774.39,"end":14776.39,"text":"需要警方的協助"},{"start":14776.39,"end":14778.39,"text":"警方我們本來就"},{"start":14778.39,"end":14780.39,"text":"就有相關的通報"},{"start":14780.39,"end":14782.39,"text":"跟附註的機制"},{"start":14782.39,"end":14784.39,"text":"就會走到那個機制去做處理"},{"start":14784.39,"end":14786.39,"text":"好最主要今天"},{"start":14786.39,"end":14788.39,"text":"會跟部長講這個"},{"start":14788.39,"end":14790.39,"text":"少年法庭的這一件"},{"start":14790.39,"end":14792.39,"text":"最主要是要讓"},{"start":14792.39,"end":14794.39,"text":"所有的學校都知道"},{"start":14794.39,"end":14796.39,"text":"還有這樣的一個機制"},{"start":14796.39,"end":14798.39,"text":"我們還可以應用"},{"start":14798.39,"end":14800.39,"text":"可以用那個少年輔導委員會"},{"start":14800.39,"end":14802.39,"text":"甚至到"},{"start":14802.39,"end":14804.39,"text":"少年法庭這個都是"},{"start":14804.39,"end":14806.39,"text":"我們學校最大的一個後盾"},{"start":14806.39,"end":14808.39,"text":"要能用"},{"start":14808.39,"end":14810.39,"text":"那我們在這裡也呼籲就是說"},{"start":14810.39,"end":14812.39,"text":"學校能夠在輔導的過程裡面"},{"start":14812.39,"end":14814.39,"text":"有碰到很大的困難的時候"},{"start":14814.39,"end":14816.39,"text":"我們可以再用我們社會的資源"},{"start":14816.39,"end":14818.39,"text":"那麼也希望"},{"start":14818.39,"end":14820.39,"text":"部長能夠盤點一下"},{"start":14820.39,"end":14822.39,"text":"我們還有哪一些可以"},{"start":14822.39,"end":14824.39,"text":"應用的我們盡量都來應用"},{"start":14824.39,"end":14826.39,"text":"因為這個涉毒的"},{"start":14826.39,"end":14828.39,"text":"這個太龐大了"},{"start":14828.39,"end":14830.39,"text":"那只要靠我們學校第一關"},{"start":14830.39,"end":14832.39,"text":"那是很難的"},{"start":14832.39,"end":14834.39,"text":"好那請警政署"},{"start":14834.39,"end":14836.39,"text":"那我回座"},{"start":14836.39,"end":14838.39,"text":"好最後我再跟"},{"start":14838.39,"end":14840.39,"text":"要結束了"},{"start":14840.39,"end":14842.39,"text":"那最後要跟部長就是說"},{"start":14842.39,"end":14844.39,"text":"我們要求今天議會的四個部會"},{"start":14847.02,"end":14849.02,"text":"我們希望就是說"},{"start":14849.02,"end":14851.02,"text":"源頭能夠阻斷"},{"start":14851.02,"end":14853.02,"text":"那也要嚴查供應鏈"},{"start":14853.02,"end":14855.02,"text":"那科學數據跟法治"},{"start":14855.02,"end":14857.02,"text":"人權要能夠並重"},{"start":14857.02,"end":14859.02,"text":"跨部會能夠無縫承接"},{"start":14859.02,"end":14861.02,"text":"所以呢本席要求"},{"start":14861.02,"end":14863.02,"text":"說我們今天所有議會"},{"start":14863.02,"end":14865.02,"text":"這四個部會能夠"},{"start":14865.02,"end":14867.02,"text":"在一個月提出跨機關"},{"start":14867.02,"end":14869.02,"text":"處置流程跟責任的一個分工"},{"start":14869.02,"end":14871.02,"text":"那在兩個月能夠"},{"start":14871.02,"end":14873.02,"text":"提出這個資料的口徑"},{"start":14873.02,"end":14875.02,"text":"還有檢驗跟服務量盤點"},{"start":14875.02,"end":14877.02,"text":"那我們希望如果沒有辦法"},{"start":14877.02,"end":14879.02,"text":"完成的話也說明"},{"start":14879.02,"end":14881.02,"text":"把這樣的一個報告"},{"start":14881.02,"end":14883.02,"text":"能夠交給本會好嗎"},{"start":14883.02,"end":14885.02,"text":"謝謝委員確實這一個"},{"start":14885.02,"end":14887.02,"text":"行政院在這個"},{"start":14887.02,"end":14889.02,"text":"新世代緩讀的策略綱領裡面"},{"start":14889.02,"end":14891.02,"text":"就是跨部會我想這個"},{"start":14891.02,"end":14893.02,"text":"我們也確實有分工合作"},{"start":14893.02,"end":14895.02,"text":"這個部分委員我們"},{"start":14895.02,"end":14897.02,"text":"在會後再來做個整理"},{"start":14897.02,"end":14899.02,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":14899.3,"end":14901.3,"text":"好謝謝蔡村仇委員"},{"start":14901.65,"end":14903.65,"text":"好接下來請邱志偉委員發言"},{"start":14903.65,"end":14905.65,"text":"請邱志偉委員發言"},{"start":14905.65,"end":14907.65,"text":"邱志偉不在"},{"start":14908.08,"end":14910.08,"text":"請鄭政前委員發言"},{"start":14910.08,"end":14912.08,"text":"鄭政前鄭政前不在請謝一鳳"},{"start":14912.08,"end":14914.08,"text":"委員發言謝一鳳謝一鳳不在"},{"start":14914.08,"end":14916.08,"text":"請蘇清泉委員發言蘇清泉"},{"start":14916.08,"end":14918.08,"text":"蘇清泉不在請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":14918.08,"end":14920.08,"text":"發言鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌"},{"start":14920.08,"end":14922.08,"text":"不在"},{"start":14921.85,"end":14923.85,"text":"今天登記質詢委員軍役發言完畢"},{"start":14923.85,"end":14925.85,"text":"詢答結束對於委員質詢"},{"start":14925.85,"end":14927.85,"text":"時要求提供相關資料或"},{"start":14927.85,"end":14929.85,"text":"未集答覆部分請相關機關"},{"start":14929.85,"end":14931.85,"text":"儘速以書面答覆"},{"start":14931.85,"end":14933.85,"text":"另由委員林一景傅坤琪徐新穎"},{"start":14933.85,"end":14935.85,"text":"邱志偉提出書面質詢列入記錄"},{"start":14935.85,"end":14937.85,"text":"刊登公報並請相關"},{"start":14937.85,"end":14939.85,"text":"機關以書面答覆"},{"start":14939.85,"end":14941.85,"text":"報告委員會本次會議到此結束現在散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}