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黃謀信次長"},{"start":1769.84,"end":1771.84,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1772.12,"end":1774.12,"text":"檢察司副司長高一書"},{"start":1774.12,"end":1777.12,"text":"人事處處長林錦惠"},{"start":1780.01,"end":1782.01,"text":"廉政署署長謝明冠"},{"start":1783.88,"end":1785.88,"text":"農業部司部長請假"},{"start":1785.88,"end":1788.88,"text":"政次是黃昭青政次"},{"start":1790.12,"end":1792.12,"text":"人事處處長吳黎明"},{"start":1793.89,"end":1795.89,"text":"政風處處長彭彥成"},{"start":1798.31,"end":1801.31,"text":"農田水利署署長黃石蔡生甫"},{"start":1807.35,"end":1809.35,"text":"本日議程排定"},{"start":1809.35,"end":1811.35,"text":"公務機關與公務人員"},{"start":1811.35,"end":1813.35,"text":"於選舉期間"},{"start":1813.35,"end":1815.35,"text":"違反公務人員行政中立法"},{"start":1815.35,"end":1819.35,"text":"查辦情形的專題報告及質詢"},{"start":1819.35,"end":1821.35,"text":"我想請行政機關"},{"start":1821.35,"end":1823.35,"text":"要就今天的主題來做報告"},{"start":1825.63,"end":1828.63,"text":"首先我們邀請群序部部長"},{"start":1828.63,"end":1830.63,"text":"施能傑部長"},{"start":1830.72,"end":1831.72,"text":"發言時間"},{"start":1832.41,"end":1834.41,"text":"三分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":1834.55,"end":1836.55,"text":"謝謝主席主席還有各位"},{"start":1836.55,"end":1838.55,"text":"各位大家早安"},{"start":1838.55,"end":1840.55,"text":"今天部裡面"},{"start":1840.55,"end":1842.55,"text":"應要來報告有關這個選舉期間"},{"start":1842.55,"end":1844.55,"text":"行政中立法相關的"},{"start":1844.55,"end":1846.55,"text":"查辦的一個議題"},{"start":1846.55,"end":1848.55,"text":"行政中立法是"},{"start":1848.55,"end":1850.55,"text":"訂定文化本部是主管機關"},{"start":1850.55,"end":1853.55,"text":"那整個行政中立法適用的對象"},{"start":1853.55,"end":1854.55,"text":"基本上是公務人員"},{"start":1854.55,"end":1856.55,"text":"不管他是任用或派用"},{"start":1856.55,"end":1858.55,"text":"或者學校裡面有任用的人"},{"start":1858.55,"end":1860.55,"text":"當然也有一些準用的對象"},{"start":1860.55,"end":1862.55,"text":"那整個行政中立法"},{"start":1862.55,"end":1864.55,"text":"的目的就是要"},{"start":1864.64,"end":1868.64,"text":"禁止公務人員為特定的政黨"},{"start":1869.01,"end":1871.01,"text":"政治團體或公職候選人"},{"start":1871.01,"end":1873.01,"text":"支持或反對這些人"},{"start":1873.01,"end":1875.01,"text":"做一些不應該做的一個"},{"start":1875.01,"end":1877.01,"text":"特定的一個政治活動的行為"},{"start":1877.01,"end":1879.01,"text":"這是在法條裡面"},{"start":1879.01,"end":1881.01,"text":"規範最多的一個地方"},{"start":1881.01,"end":1883.01,"text":"那整個運作狀況是"},{"start":1883.01,"end":1885.01,"text":"本部作為一個主管機關"},{"start":1885.01,"end":1887.01,"text":"所以我們會就法"},{"start":1887.01,"end":1889.01,"text":"我們訂定法條"},{"start":1889.01,"end":1891.01,"text":"但是實際上適用個案的時候"},{"start":1891.01,"end":1893.01,"text":"就有全國各機關"},{"start":1893.01,"end":1895.01,"text":"根據這個法條去認定"},{"start":1895.01,"end":1897.01,"text":"說有沒有人違反這個個案"},{"start":1897.01,"end":1899.01,"text":"如果違反的話"},{"start":1899.01,"end":1901.01,"text":"按照情節應該要怎麼處理"},{"start":1901.01,"end":1903.01,"text":"這個是整個運作模式"},{"start":1903.01,"end":1905.01,"text":"當然如果適用法條"},{"start":1905.01,"end":1907.01,"text":"需要做一些函事"},{"start":1907.01,"end":1909.01,"text":"本部是做了函事的一個解釋的機關"},{"start":1909.01,"end":1911.01,"text":"這本部主要執掌就是"},{"start":1911.01,"end":1913.01,"text":"訂定法條跟函事"},{"start":1913.01,"end":1915.01,"text":"這是我們部裡面的一個職位"},{"start":1915.01,"end":1917.01,"text":"那行政中立法另外兩個很重要的"},{"start":1917.01,"end":1919.01,"text":"一個概念是這樣子"},{"start":1919.01,"end":1921.01,"text":"如果長官只是部署違反"},{"start":1921.01,"end":1923.01,"text":"這個行政中立法"},{"start":1923.01,"end":1925.01,"text":"這個長官可能是公務人員"},{"start":1925.01,"end":1927.01,"text":"或是政務首長"},{"start":1927.01,"end":1929.01,"text":"當然公務人員就可以向上級長官提起舉法"},{"start":1929.01,"end":1931.01,"text":"那最後也可以跟監察院做舉法"},{"start":1931.01,"end":1933.01,"text":"這是法律明定的處理的一個程序"},{"start":1933.01,"end":1935.01,"text":"那整個"},{"start":1935.01,"end":1937.01,"text":"如果對違反的人"},{"start":1937.01,"end":1939.01,"text":"當然就可以做懲處"},{"start":1939.01,"end":1941.01,"text":"或者懲戒或者其他法大用上室友"},{"start":1941.01,"end":1943.01,"text":"這都是法律現行的法律架構"},{"start":1943.01,"end":1945.01,"text":"是這樣規定的"},{"start":1945.01,"end":1947.01,"text":"我想這是主要這樣運作一個狀況"},{"start":1947.01,"end":1949.01,"text":"那本部大概在每一次"},{"start":1949.01,"end":1951.01,"text":"有大選的時候"},{"start":1951.01,"end":1953.01,"text":"不管是總統大選或者地方選舉"},{"start":1953.01,"end":1955.01,"text":"只要中選會公告選舉日開始"},{"start":1955.01,"end":1957.01,"text":"我們都會同日"},{"start":1957.01,"end":1959.01,"text":"向全國各機關發布"},{"start":1959.01,"end":1961.01,"text":"有關提醒他們要注意"},{"start":1961.01,"end":1963.01,"text":"行政中立法相關的事情"},{"start":1963.01,"end":1965.01,"text":"所以在今年8月20號"},{"start":1965.01,"end":1967.01,"text":"我們也通喊全國各機關"},{"start":1967.01,"end":1969.01,"text":"要注意有關行政中立法"},{"start":1969.01,"end":1971.01,"text":"一些相關的事情"},{"start":1971.01,"end":1973.01,"text":"那行政中立法一些具體過去的案例"},{"start":1973.01,"end":1975.01,"text":"或者是有一些QA"},{"start":1975.01,"end":1977.01,"text":"在本部裡面的網站"},{"start":1977.01,"end":1979.01,"text":"都會提供給大家做參考"},{"start":1979.01,"end":1981.01,"text":"但是有時候我們會接到電話來一個徵詢"},{"start":1981.01,"end":1983.01,"text":"那我想我做以上的報告"},{"start":1984.64,"end":1986.64,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":1986.21,"end":1990.21,"text":"接下來我們請法務部政務次長黃茂信次長"},{"start":1990.36,"end":1992.36,"text":"報告"},{"start":1991.44,"end":1993.44,"text":"三分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":1995.09,"end":1997.09,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生"},{"start":1997.09,"end":1999.09,"text":"今天奉邀會議會"},{"start":1999.09,"end":2001.09,"text":"代表本部做專題報告"},{"start":2001.09,"end":2003.09,"text":"並被質詢 此報告如下"},{"start":2003.09,"end":2007.09,"text":"有關公務員行政中立的相關法規的部分"},{"start":2007.09,"end":2009.09,"text":"公務人員行政中立法"},{"start":2009.09,"end":2011.09,"text":"最主要的規範是在"},{"start":2011.09,"end":2013.09,"text":"公務人員行政中立法"},{"start":2013.09,"end":2015.09,"text":"依照這個行政中立法的規定"},{"start":2015.09,"end":2017.09,"text":"就公務員有關行政中立的行為分際"},{"start":2017.09,"end":2019.09,"text":"權力義務"},{"start":2019.09,"end":2021.09,"text":"等相關事項都有明確的規範"},{"start":2021.09,"end":2023.09,"text":"可知遵循"},{"start":2023.09,"end":2025.09,"text":"另外有關違反行政中立的行政責任"},{"start":2025.09,"end":2027.09,"text":"跟刑事責任的部分"},{"start":2027.09,"end":2029.09,"text":"那有關行政責任的部分"},{"start":2029.09,"end":2031.09,"text":"我們中立法的第十六條"},{"start":2031.09,"end":2033.09,"text":"已經明白的規定公務員違反本法"},{"start":2033.09,"end":2035.09,"text":"應按照情節的輕重"},{"start":2035.09,"end":2037.09,"text":"依公務員懲戒法"},{"start":2037.09,"end":2039.09,"text":"考績法及相關規定"},{"start":2039.09,"end":2041.09,"text":"予以懲戒或懲處"},{"start":2041.09,"end":2043.09,"text":"當然其他法律有特別規定的話"},{"start":2043.09,"end":2045.09,"text":"依照其他法律來處理"},{"start":2045.09,"end":2047.09,"text":"那刑事責任的部分 我們選罷法第五十條"},{"start":2047.09,"end":2049.09,"text":"規定中央跟地方政府各級機關"},{"start":2049.09,"end":2051.09,"text":"在公職人選舉"},{"start":2051.09,"end":2055.09,"text":"競選期間不得從事任何跟競選"},{"start":2055.09,"end":2057.09,"text":"宣傳活動有關的事宜"},{"start":2057.09,"end":2059.09,"text":"那同法的一百零四條之一"},{"start":2059.09,"end":2061.09,"text":"就違反"},{"start":2061.09,"end":2063.09,"text":"他的地方或中央的各級首長"},{"start":2063.09,"end":2065.09,"text":"跟其代理人或受指示之人"},{"start":2065.09,"end":2067.09,"text":"他可以處善令以下"},{"start":2067.09,"end":2069.09,"text":"有其徒刑的規範"},{"start":2069.36,"end":2071.36,"text":"另外有關於本部"},{"start":2071.36,"end":2075.36,"text":"就違反公務員違反行政中立查辦的情形"},{"start":2075.36,"end":2077.36,"text":"那本部所屬的連證署"},{"start":2077.36,"end":2079.36,"text":"以及相關的法規規定"},{"start":2079.36,"end":2081.36,"text":"就這個行政中立的案件"},{"start":2081.36,"end":2083.36,"text":"本部的連證署是"},{"start":2083.36,"end":2085.36,"text":"非主責的機關"},{"start":2085.36,"end":2087.36,"text":"非審認的主責機關"},{"start":2087.36,"end":2089.36,"text":"但是各機關如果有相關的疑慮"},{"start":2089.36,"end":2091.36,"text":"或請我們政風機構"},{"start":2091.36,"end":2093.36,"text":"來協助釐清的話"},{"start":2093.36,"end":2095.36,"text":"在我們的所屬"},{"start":2095.36,"end":2097.36,"text":"連證署政風機構在他的權責範圍內"},{"start":2097.36,"end":2099.36,"text":"他可以協助釐清"},{"start":2099.36,"end":2101.36,"text":"那另外本部就選務的部分"},{"start":2101.36,"end":2103.36,"text":"有關行政中立的部分"},{"start":2103.36,"end":2105.36,"text":"那本部除了要求"},{"start":2105.36,"end":2107.36,"text":"前面我所提的連證署"},{"start":2107.36,"end":2109.36,"text":"要加強宣導有關選罷法的第五十條"},{"start":2109.36,"end":2111.36,"text":"第一百零四條之一的相關規範之外"},{"start":2111.36,"end":2113.36,"text":"希望這個"},{"start":2113.36,"end":2115.36,"text":"營造相關的公正公開的選舉環境"},{"start":2115.36,"end":2117.36,"text":"另外本部查查彙選的部分"},{"start":2117.36,"end":2119.36,"text":"本部跟最高檢"},{"start":2119.36,"end":2121.36,"text":"目前正如我如圖的"},{"start":2121.36,"end":2123.36,"text":"在各第一二審的檢察署"},{"start":2123.36,"end":2125.36,"text":"進行相關的選舉查查"},{"start":2125.36,"end":2127.36,"text":"分區座談"},{"start":2127.36,"end":2129.36,"text":"那在座談中"},{"start":2129.36,"end":2131.36,"text":"我們也充分的要求各查緝機關"},{"start":2131.36,"end":2133.36,"text":"應該要嚴守相關的行政中立的相關規範"},{"start":2133.36,"end":2135.36,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":2135.36,"end":2137.36,"text":"謝謝各位委員各位先生女士指教"},{"start":2137.36,"end":2139.36,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2139.36,"end":2141.36,"text":"接下來請農業部次長"},{"start":2143.96,"end":2145.96,"text":"黃昭欽次長"},{"start":2146.81,"end":2148.81,"text":"三分鐘"},{"start":2149.16,"end":2151.16,"text":"主席各位委員"},{"start":2151.16,"end":2153.16,"text":"今天本部"},{"start":2153.16,"end":2155.16,"text":"列席報告"},{"start":2155.16,"end":2157.16,"text":"有關於公務機關與公務人員於選舉期間"},{"start":2157.16,"end":2159.16,"text":"違反公務人員"},{"start":2159.16,"end":2161.16,"text":"行政中立法查辦情形"},{"start":2161.16,"end":2163.16,"text":"提出專案報告"},{"start":2163.16,"end":2165.16,"text":"背景說明公務人員"},{"start":2165.16,"end":2167.16,"text":"行政中立 惜維護政府公正"},{"start":2167.16,"end":2169.16,"text":"執行職務以及人民信賴的"},{"start":2169.16,"end":2171.16,"text":"重要基礎 依公務人員"},{"start":2171.16,"end":2173.16,"text":"行政中立法以下簡稱中立法"},{"start":2173.16,"end":2175.16,"text":"規定公務人員"},{"start":2175.16,"end":2177.16,"text":"應嚴守行政中立以法公正"},{"start":2177.16,"end":2179.16,"text":"不得利用職務上的權利"},{"start":2179.16,"end":2181.16,"text":"機會或方法"},{"start":2181.16,"end":2183.16,"text":"介入黨派紛爭"},{"start":2183.16,"end":2185.16,"text":"製就本部人員適用或准用行政中立法的情形說明如下"},{"start":2185.16,"end":2187.16,"text":"一"},{"start":2187.16,"end":2189.16,"text":"查本部既所屬機關人員組成類別"},{"start":2189.16,"end":2191.16,"text":"包含依法任用之常務公務人員"},{"start":2191.16,"end":2193.16,"text":"績要人員政務人員"},{"start":2193.16,"end":2195.16,"text":"依法聘用及僱用人員"},{"start":2195.16,"end":2197.16,"text":"繼公公有及約用人員等"},{"start":2197.16,"end":2199.16,"text":"至各類人員適用行政中立法之情形"},{"start":2199.16,"end":2201.16,"text":"應依行政中立法第二條"},{"start":2201.16,"end":2203.16,"text":"第17條第18條"},{"start":2203.16,"end":2205.16,"text":"規定"},{"start":2205.16,"end":2207.16,"text":"案其實際任用或禁用身份認定"},{"start":2207.16,"end":2209.16,"text":"其中依法任用派用之有己專任人員"},{"start":2209.16,"end":2211.16,"text":"系該法適用對象"},{"start":2211.16,"end":2213.16,"text":"依法聘用聘僱人員及考試"},{"start":2213.16,"end":2215.16,"text":"錄取人員訓練期間之人員等"},{"start":2215.16,"end":2217.16,"text":"則依該法規定準用"},{"start":2217.16,"end":2219.16,"text":"至本部既所屬機關政務人員"},{"start":2219.16,"end":2221.16,"text":"繼公公有及約用人員"},{"start":2221.16,"end":2223.16,"text":"則非屬行政中立法適用及準用對象"},{"start":2223.16,"end":2225.16,"text":"第二"},{"start":2225.16,"end":2227.16,"text":"令本會農田水利署各管理局"},{"start":2227.16,"end":2229.16,"text":"及各管理局"},{"start":2229.16,"end":2231.16,"text":"及各管理局"},{"start":2231.16,"end":2233.16,"text":"及各管理局"},{"start":2233.16,"end":2235.16,"text":"農田水利署各管理處人員"},{"start":2235.16,"end":2237.16,"text":"屬農田水利事業人員"},{"start":2237.16,"end":2239.16,"text":"雖不具一般公務人員身份"},{"start":2239.16,"end":2241.16,"text":"為為確保取等依法執行職務及"},{"start":2241.16,"end":2243.16,"text":"依法執行職務及"},{"start":2244.7,"end":2246.7,"text":"嚴守行政中立"},{"start":2246.7,"end":2248.7,"text":"依農田水利事業人員人事管理"},{"start":2248.7,"end":2250.7,"text":"辦法第七條第二項規定"},{"start":2250.7,"end":2252.7,"text":"農田水利事業人員"},{"start":2252.7,"end":2254.7,"text":"準用行政中立法"},{"start":2254.7,"end":2256.7,"text":"違反者因案情節輕重"},{"start":2256.7,"end":2258.7,"text":"依有關法規規定處理"},{"start":2258.7,"end":2260.7,"text":"本部對行政中立之立場"},{"start":2260.7,"end":2262.7,"text":"及宣導作為"},{"start":2262.7,"end":2264.7,"text":"第一堅守行政中立的原則"},{"start":2264.7,"end":2266.7,"text":"確保依法公正執行職務"},{"start":2266.7,"end":2268.7,"text":"本部一項重視行政中立"},{"start":2268.7,"end":2270.7,"text":"持續要求本部各單位及所屬"},{"start":2270.7,"end":2272.7,"text":"機構人員遵守相關規定"},{"start":2272.7,"end":2274.7,"text":"不得利用職務職權或行政資源"},{"start":2274.7,"end":2276.7,"text":"為特定政黨政治團體或公職人員"},{"start":2276.7,"end":2278.7,"text":"從事法律禁止的政治活動"},{"start":2278.7,"end":2280.7,"text":"以維護行政機關中立之立場"},{"start":2280.7,"end":2282.7,"text":"第二強化行政中立宣導"},{"start":2282.7,"end":2284.7,"text":"落實相關法例"},{"start":2284.7,"end":2286.7,"text":"依行政中立法第十三條規定"},{"start":2286.7,"end":2288.7,"text":"各機關首長或主管人員"},{"start":2288.7,"end":2290.7,"text":"於選舉期"},{"start":2290.7,"end":2292.7,"text":"於選舉委員會發佈"},{"start":2292.7,"end":2294.7,"text":"選舉日公告期至投票日"},{"start":2294.7,"end":2296.7,"text":"至選舉期間"},{"start":2296.7,"end":2298.7,"text":"應遵守禁止政黨"},{"start":2298.7,"end":2300.7,"text":"活動的規定"},{"start":2300.7,"end":2302.7,"text":"應遵守禁止政黨"},{"start":2302.7,"end":2304.7,"text":"公職候選人及其支持者"},{"start":2304.7,"end":2306.7,"text":"造訪活動及"},{"start":2306.7,"end":2308.7,"text":"張貼競選活動告示等規定"},{"start":2308.7,"end":2310.7,"text":"本次一百一十五年"},{"start":2310.7,"end":2312.7,"text":"地方公職人員選舉中央選舉委員會"},{"start":2312.7,"end":2314.7,"text":"已於八月二十日發佈選舉公告"},{"start":2314.7,"end":2316.7,"text":"並定於十一月二十八號"},{"start":2316.7,"end":2318.7,"text":"投票本部已於"},{"start":2318.7,"end":2320.7,"text":"一百一十五年八月二十八日"},{"start":2320.7,"end":2322.7,"text":"通函要求各單位及所屬機關"},{"start":2322.7,"end":2324.7,"text":"於選舉期間"},{"start":2324.7,"end":2326.7,"text":"應各首相關規範"},{"start":2326.7,"end":2328.7,"text":"注意公共活動是嚴刑奮戟"},{"start":2328.7,"end":2330.7,"text":"避免引發行政中立之違"},{"start":2330.7,"end":2332.7,"text":"疑慮"},{"start":2332.7,"end":2334.7,"text":"涉及違反行政中立之規定之處理的話"},{"start":2334.7,"end":2336.7,"text":"則依相關的"},{"start":2336.7,"end":2338.7,"text":"這個規定懲戒來辦理"},{"start":2338.7,"end":2340.7,"text":"那行政中立是維護公務體系的專業"},{"start":2340.7,"end":2342.7,"text":"公正及人民信賴的重要原則"},{"start":2342.7,"end":2344.7,"text":"本部將持續要求"},{"start":2344.7,"end":2346.7,"text":"所屬機關機構相關人員"},{"start":2346.7,"end":2348.7,"text":"落實行政中立的規範"},{"start":2348.7,"end":2350.7,"text":"透過法律宣導及日常的管理"},{"start":2350.7,"end":2352.7,"text":"來強化同仁行政中立的意識"},{"start":2352.7,"end":2354.7,"text":"確保各類政策"},{"start":2354.7,"end":2356.7,"text":"行政依法公正推動"},{"start":2356.7,"end":2358.7,"text":"維護政府機關的公信力"},{"start":2358.7,"end":2360.7,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":2360.96,"end":2362.96,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2395.73,"end":2397.73,"text":"謝謝主席我們要請部長"},{"start":2397.66,"end":2399.66,"text":"陳旭部部長"},{"start":2399.66,"end":2401.66,"text":"陳旭部部長 施部長"},{"start":2403.62,"end":2405.62,"text":"部長早安"},{"start":2405.62,"end":2407.62,"text":"因為今天要討論的就是行政中立"},{"start":2407.62,"end":2409.62,"text":"那其實我看這兩禮拜"},{"start":2409.62,"end":2411.62,"text":"其實有蠻多國民黨跟民眾黨的委員"},{"start":2411.62,"end":2413.62,"text":"都在批評農水署"},{"start":2413.62,"end":2415.62,"text":"針對桃園黃姓候選人"},{"start":2415.62,"end":2417.62,"text":"這個案件來批評說不夠中立"},{"start":2417.62,"end":2419.62,"text":"所以我想今天剛好是一個很好的機會"},{"start":2419.62,"end":2421.62,"text":"來跟部長請教這個題目"},{"start":2421.62,"end":2423.62,"text":"所以就是說在那個參議"},{"start":2423.62,"end":2425.62,"text":"參會上面最爭議的事件就是"},{"start":2425.62,"end":2427.62,"text":"處長帶頭喊著這個當選的行為"},{"start":2427.62,"end":2429.62,"text":"是不是有違反行政中立的原則"},{"start":2429.62,"end":2431.62,"text":"針對有違法的部分"},{"start":2431.62,"end":2433.62,"text":"所以我剛剛跟部長說已經就是立案調查了"},{"start":2433.62,"end":2435.62,"text":"所以我想我們今天就不討論個案"},{"start":2435.62,"end":2437.62,"text":"但我今天想請教一下部長"},{"start":2437.62,"end":2439.62,"text":"就是正根據幾個案例來跟部長討論"},{"start":2439.62,"end":2441.62,"text":"第一個就是2023年"},{"start":2441.62,"end":2443.62,"text":"蔡壁如穿著競選立委"},{"start":2443.62,"end":2445.62,"text":"參選人的背心"},{"start":2445.62,"end":2447.62,"text":"出席台中順天國中動土典禮"},{"start":2447.62,"end":2449.62,"text":"並質疑說是行政中立"},{"start":2449.62,"end":2451.62,"text":"但是當時台中市政府"},{"start":2451.62,"end":2453.62,"text":"是以上位公告為候選人"},{"start":2453.62,"end":2455.62,"text":"說這也還不是競選期間來回應"},{"start":2460.75,"end":2462.75,"text":"那再來第二個案例看左邊"},{"start":2462.75,"end":2464.75,"text":"這個是洪秀柱"},{"start":2464.75,"end":2467.75,"text":"在2015年到苗栗的竹南國小"},{"start":2467.75,"end":2469.75,"text":"參訪營養午餐"},{"start":2469.75,"end":2471.75,"text":"被質疑說違反行政中立"},{"start":2471.75,"end":2473.75,"text":"那當時的教育部長是說"},{"start":2473.75,"end":2475.75,"text":"吳思華是說洪秀柱還沒有登記"},{"start":2475.75,"end":2478.75,"text":"所以在法律上還不是正式參選候選人"},{"start":2478.75,"end":2480.75,"text":"並表示向中選會"},{"start":2480.75,"end":2482.75,"text":"釐清認定標準"},{"start":2482.75,"end":2484.75,"text":"所以前兩個案例"},{"start":2484.75,"end":2486.75,"text":"我們行政機關都是說"},{"start":2486.75,"end":2488.75,"text":"還沒有公告還沒有登記"},{"start":2488.75,"end":2490.75,"text":"所以我們要回應行政中立的爭議"},{"start":2490.75,"end":2492.75,"text":"那我想請教"},{"start":2492.75,"end":2494.75,"text":"就是說到底在什麼時間點"},{"start":2494.75,"end":2497.75,"text":"才算是法律上的公職候選人呢"},{"start":2497.75,"end":2499.75,"text":"根據我們在這個選舉部之前"},{"start":2499.75,"end":2501.75,"text":"在99年發的這個"},{"start":2501.75,"end":2504.75,"text":"這個函事裡面就有講到說"},{"start":2506.63,"end":2508.63,"text":"先確認當事人的法律身分"},{"start":2508.63,"end":2511.63,"text":"再判斷相關的限制是否適用"},{"start":2511.63,"end":2513.63,"text":"所以我想問的是"},{"start":2513.63,"end":2516.63,"text":"當初的規範跟函事的意指是什麼"},{"start":2516.63,"end":2518.63,"text":"因為我的理解是"},{"start":2518.63,"end":2520.63,"text":"在這個函事裡面指出"},{"start":2520.63,"end":2523.63,"text":"你參選人登記為公職候選人之前"},{"start":2523.63,"end":2526.63,"text":"公務人員為其站台遊行敗票"},{"start":2526.63,"end":2530.63,"text":"原則上是不受公務人員行政中立法第六條"},{"start":2530.63,"end":2532.63,"text":"第一項第六款的限制"},{"start":2532.63,"end":2534.63,"text":"所以當時做這份"},{"start":2534.63,"end":2536.63,"text":"函事的考量是什麼"},{"start":2536.63,"end":2538.63,"text":"不曉得是不是可以請部長幫我們簡單說明一下"},{"start":2538.63,"end":2540.63,"text":"那為什麼會以登記作為界線"},{"start":2540.63,"end":2542.63,"text":"那這份函事還適用嗎"},{"start":2542.63,"end":2544.63,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":2544.63,"end":2546.63,"text":"登記公職候選人的定義是"},{"start":2546.63,"end":2550.63,"text":"是由在行政中立法明文規定"},{"start":2550.63,"end":2556.63,"text":"就是說中選會公告選舉期間開始到結束這中間"},{"start":2556.63,"end":2560.63,"text":"才開始適用行政中立法的一個相關的規定"},{"start":2560.63,"end":2562.63,"text":"這是在第13條規定"},{"start":2562.63,"end":2566.63,"text":"所以在這之前可能因為你還沒有公告你成為政事候選人之前"},{"start":2566.63,"end":2568.63,"text":"我們都稱他叫你參選人"},{"start":2568.63,"end":2570.63,"text":"這並不是一個概念"},{"start":2570.63,"end":2572.63,"text":"不過真正嚴格限制公務人員"},{"start":2574.85,"end":2576.85,"text":"支持或者反對或者動用行政政策"},{"start":2576.85,"end":2584.85,"text":"這些東西大概都是在以公職候選人的身份確立之後"},{"start":2584.85,"end":2588.85,"text":"所以機關在判斷相關限制是否適用的時候"},{"start":2588.85,"end":2592.85,"text":"都要先去查明當時在發生的時間是什麼時候"},{"start":2592.85,"end":2596.85,"text":"是不是已經是所謂的公職候選人了對不對"},{"start":2596.85,"end":2598.85,"text":"那這個應該選委會都會公告"},{"start":2598.85,"end":2600.85,"text":"這個應該是很快就知道"},{"start":2600.85,"end":2602.85,"text":"選委會公告時間都會很清楚的說明"},{"start":2602.85,"end":2604.85,"text":"好那我想這個具體來說"},{"start":2604.85,"end":2606.85,"text":"我們剛剛部長解釋的非常清楚"},{"start":2606.85,"end":2610.85,"text":"就是依法有一個相關的法令跟函事去規定了"},{"start":2610.85,"end":2612.85,"text":"到底什麼時候開始去界定"},{"start":2612.85,"end":2614.85,"text":"那我也想要請教一下"},{"start":2614.85,"end":2616.85,"text":"因為在我們裡面還有講到說"},{"start":2616.85,"end":2618.85,"text":"盡量這個函事裡面有講到"},{"start":2618.85,"end":2620.85,"text":"為人以盡量避免為宜"},{"start":2620.85,"end":2624.85,"text":"那我想確定一下這個是提醒公務人員審慎行事"},{"start":2624.85,"end":2628.85,"text":"還是說這個具有禁止及懲處的效果呢"},{"start":2628.85,"end":2632.85,"text":"如果說機關認為應該要予以懲處"},{"start":2632.85,"end":2634.85,"text":"是否需要指出具體違反是哪一項規定"},{"start":2634.85,"end":2636.85,"text":"有哪些事實跟證據"},{"start":2636.85,"end":2640.85,"text":"應該是不能夠以觀感不好就做來懲處的依據吧"},{"start":2640.85,"end":2646.85,"text":"應該這樣講我們行政中立法明文規定是法律禁止的行為"},{"start":2646.85,"end":2648.85,"text":"那即使法律不禁止"},{"start":2648.85,"end":2650.85,"text":"當然因為越靠近選舉"},{"start":2650.85,"end":2654.85,"text":"因為我們根據行政中立法當初立法的精神"},{"start":2654.85,"end":2658.85,"text":"就希望公務機關不要介入這些相關的政黨"},{"start":2658.85,"end":2660.85,"text":"或者是公職候選人參議員"},{"start":2660.85,"end":2662.85,"text":"所以即使大家都應該有另外一個自己的判斷"},{"start":2662.85,"end":2664.85,"text":"所以我們才會說"},{"start":2664.85,"end":2666.85,"text":"我們要提醒說盡量避免啦"},{"start":2666.85,"end":2670.85,"text":"至於盡量避免這個並不是法律上的一個要求"},{"start":2670.85,"end":2672.85,"text":"所以我想就很難構成"},{"start":2672.85,"end":2674.85,"text":"接下來一定要懲處的一個方式"},{"start":2674.85,"end":2676.85,"text":"但是它是一個法律道德的一個"},{"start":2676.85,"end":2680.85,"text":"回到整個國家要往前走"},{"start":2680.85,"end":2682.85,"text":"不過我還是要提醒"},{"start":2683.06,"end":2685.06,"text":"我們在看待這些事情的時候"},{"start":2685.06,"end":2687.06,"text":"除了行政中立法以外"},{"start":2687.06,"end":2689.06,"text":"我們在非選舉期間"},{"start":2689.06,"end":2691.06,"text":"就是非法定公告的選舉期間"},{"start":2691.06,"end":2695.06,"text":"我們還是有服務法的一些相關的一些條文"},{"start":2695.06,"end":2697.06,"text":"希望我們應該公務員應該注意到"},{"start":2697.06,"end":2701.06,"text":"服務法的一些相關的一些規定"},{"start":2701.06,"end":2702.06,"text":"了解喔"},{"start":2702.06,"end":2703.06,"text":"那我想今天就是說"},{"start":2703.06,"end":2704.06,"text":"因為公務員下班之後"},{"start":2704.06,"end":2707.06,"text":"他也還是一個有投票資格的國民嘛"},{"start":2707.06,"end":2709.06,"text":"他們還是有權力去表達他們要支持哪位候選人"},{"start":2709.06,"end":2711.06,"text":"但是就是向部長的提醒啦"},{"start":2711.06,"end":2713.06,"text":"我們還是要謹記行政中立的原則嘛"},{"start":2713.06,"end":2714.06,"text":"所以我想今天也非常高興"},{"start":2714.06,"end":2715.06,"text":"我們排在這個題目"},{"start":2715.06,"end":2719.06,"text":"讓全序部可以來把這個相關的規範來說清楚"},{"start":2719.06,"end":2720.06,"text":"那我想要再請教一下"},{"start":2720.06,"end":2721.06,"text":"因為我們剛剛講行政中立"},{"start":2721.06,"end":2725.06,"text":"主要是規範我們的公職人員對不對"},{"start":2725.06,"end":2726.06,"text":"我們的機關、主管機關"},{"start":2726.06,"end":2728.06,"text":"各個轄下的地方政府"},{"start":2728.06,"end":2731.06,"text":"只要有公職身份的都應該要符合行政中立嘛"},{"start":2731.06,"end":2732.06,"text":"對吧"},{"start":2732.06,"end":2735.06,"text":"規範公務人員要準用這個法律的人員"},{"start":2735.06,"end":2736.06,"text":"對準用人員"},{"start":2736.06,"end":2737.06,"text":"那我想問一個問題"},{"start":2737.06,"end":2740.06,"text":"就是說我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2740.06,"end":2741.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2741.06,"end":2742.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2742.06,"end":2743.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2743.06,"end":2744.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2744.06,"end":2745.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2745.06,"end":2746.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2746.06,"end":2747.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2747.06,"end":2748.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2748.06,"end":2749.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2749.06,"end":2750.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2750.06,"end":2751.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2751.06,"end":2752.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2752.06,"end":2753.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2753.06,"end":2754.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2754.06,"end":2755.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2755.06,"end":2756.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2756.06,"end":2757.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2757.06,"end":2758.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2758.06,"end":2759.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2759.06,"end":2760.06,"text":"我今天早上看到一個劇團"},{"start":2740.75,"end":2742.35,"text":"這個劇團他們"},{"start":2742.35,"end":2744.35,"text":"排了 辦了一個活動"},{"start":2744.62,"end":2746.22,"text":"那辦了一個活動之後呢"},{"start":2746.22,"end":2748.22,"text":"有民眾就自己在這個"},{"start":2748.22,"end":2751.22,"text":"他們的這個辦公室這邊呢"},{"start":2751.22,"end":2752.22,"text":"貼了一個洋"},{"start":2752.22,"end":2753.22,"text":"他們有做一個留言板"},{"start":2753.22,"end":2754.22,"text":"對不起 留言板上面"},{"start":2754.22,"end":2756.22,"text":"就貼了一個洋流貼紙"},{"start":2756.22,"end":2757.22,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":2757.22,"end":2759.22,"text":"他們就對台北市政府"},{"start":2759.22,"end":2761.22,"text":"提醒說要行政中立"},{"start":2762.64,"end":2765.64,"text":"阿劇團是屬於"},{"start":2766.82,"end":2768.82,"text":"第一個劇團屬於嗎"},{"start":2768.82,"end":2770.82,"text":"選民 這些市民的身份"},{"start":2770.82,"end":2772.82,"text":"屬於行政中立的規範嗎"},{"start":2772.82,"end":2774.82,"text":"他並不是行政中立的"},{"start":2774.82,"end":2776.82,"text":"收入法的適用對象"},{"start":2776.82,"end":2778.82,"text":"如果他不是公務人員"},{"start":2779.04,"end":2781.04,"text":"對 因為他們是劇團耶"},{"start":2781.76,"end":2783.76,"text":"劇團到底是"},{"start":2792.29,"end":2794.29,"text":"這是屬於行政中立法"},{"start":2794.29,"end":2795.29,"text":"剛剛所界定的範圍"},{"start":2795.29,"end":2796.29,"text":"適用的範圍嗎"},{"start":2796.29,"end":2798.29,"text":"我們行政中立法只界定"},{"start":2798.29,"end":2800.29,"text":"就對公務人員跟準用公務人員"},{"start":2800.29,"end":2801.29,"text":"做限制"},{"start":2801.29,"end":2803.29,"text":"而且是在政府的機關場所"},{"start":2803.29,"end":2805.29,"text":"裡面你不可以張貼"},{"start":2805.29,"end":2806.29,"text":"如果選舉期間呢"},{"start":2806.29,"end":2807.29,"text":"你就不可以"},{"start":2807.29,"end":2808.29,"text":"正是那個"},{"start":2808.29,"end":2810.29,"text":"所以你不可以張貼那個"},{"start":2810.29,"end":2812.29,"text":"相關的選舉的"},{"start":2812.29,"end":2813.29,"text":"相關的告示啦"},{"start":2813.29,"end":2815.29,"text":"各式各樣的一個狀況"},{"start":2815.29,"end":2817.29,"text":"對 好 我想這個應該是"},{"start":2817.29,"end":2819.29,"text":"所有公務人員"},{"start":2819.29,"end":2820.29,"text":"即便是像我自己"},{"start":2820.29,"end":2821.29,"text":"可能之前有過去"},{"start":2821.29,"end":2823.29,"text":"跟各個縣市政府合作"},{"start":2823.29,"end":2825.29,"text":"如果我們今天有合作的一些案子"},{"start":2825.29,"end":2826.29,"text":"我們今天都了解"},{"start":2827.2,"end":2828.2,"text":"大家應該都有一個基礎的了解"},{"start":2828.2,"end":2831.2,"text":"我們規定的其實是公務機關嘛"},{"start":2831.2,"end":2832.2,"text":"對不對"},{"start":2832.2,"end":2834.2,"text":"這個提醒真的是太荒謬了啦"},{"start":2834.2,"end":2836.2,"text":"我說我也希望今天台北市政府文化局"},{"start":2836.2,"end":2837.2,"text":"看完這個質詢之後"},{"start":2837.2,"end":2839.2,"text":"可以趕快去撤銷自己"},{"start":2839.2,"end":2840.2,"text":"對人家的提醒啦"},{"start":2840.2,"end":2841.2,"text":"因為這真的是太荒謬了啦"},{"start":2841.2,"end":2842.2,"text":"好不好"},{"start":2842.2,"end":2843.2,"text":"好 那再來下一個部分"},{"start":2843.2,"end":2844.2,"text":"就是針對於"},{"start":2845.97,"end":2847.97,"text":"我們這個公務員容易違反的行為呢"},{"start":2847.97,"end":2850.97,"text":"其實全序部有做一個整理"},{"start":2850.97,"end":2852.97,"text":"那這個也是我們針對於你們"},{"start":2852.97,"end":2853.97,"text":"現在最近"},{"start":2855.74,"end":2856.74,"text":"這個公務人員容易違反的行為"},{"start":2856.74,"end":2857.74,"text":"做了一個簡要的整理"},{"start":2857.74,"end":2860.74,"text":"但是其實他並沒有相關的統計分析"},{"start":2860.74,"end":2862.74,"text":"他比較是透過全序部的案例和網站"},{"start":2862.74,"end":2865.74,"text":"向公務人員討論的情節"},{"start":2865.74,"end":2867.74,"text":"來去做整理出來的"},{"start":2867.74,"end":2869.74,"text":"那我想問一個問題就是說"},{"start":2869.74,"end":2871.74,"text":"因為我們過去就是把行為直接整理"},{"start":2871.74,"end":2873.74,"text":"然後放了一大本"},{"start":2873.74,"end":2875.74,"text":"但是我認為這個可能對於吸收"},{"start":2875.74,"end":2876.74,"text":"公務人員在吸收"},{"start":2876.74,"end":2878.74,"text":"因為公務人員都非常非常的忙"},{"start":2878.74,"end":2879.74,"text":"他就吸收說"},{"start":2879.74,"end":2881.74,"text":"這條路這個可能是有問題的"},{"start":2881.74,"end":2882.74,"text":"這個可能是有問題的"},{"start":2882.74,"end":2883.74,"text":"這樣子的方式"},{"start":2883.74,"end":2885.74,"text":"其實對他們來說不是很容易"},{"start":2885.74,"end":2886.74,"text":"所以我只是想說"},{"start":2886.74,"end":2888.74,"text":"我們是不是可以針對就是說"},{"start":2888.74,"end":2889.74,"text":"因為你們已經有這麼多年的資料了"},{"start":2889.74,"end":2892.74,"text":"統計出來哪些是最常見的"},{"start":2892.74,"end":2894.74,"text":"那第一常見的"},{"start":2894.74,"end":2895.74,"text":"第二常見的"},{"start":2895.74,"end":2896.74,"text":"第三常見的幫他分群這樣子"},{"start":2896.74,"end":2898.74,"text":"那至少可以在最常見的那幾個犯"},{"start":2898.74,"end":2900.74,"text":"就是樣態裡面"},{"start":2900.74,"end":2901.74,"text":"我們不要犯"},{"start":2901.74,"end":2902.74,"text":"我們不要違法嘛對不對"},{"start":2902.74,"end":2904.74,"text":"可以保護我們的公務人員"},{"start":2904.74,"end":2906.74,"text":"所以我們是不是可以做這樣子的整理"},{"start":2906.74,"end":2907.74,"text":"第一個"},{"start":2907.74,"end":2908.74,"text":"第二個就是說"},{"start":2908.74,"end":2910.74,"text":"有一些案例已經超過五年了"},{"start":2910.74,"end":2913.74,"text":"有一些QA也都是用文字"},{"start":2913.74,"end":2915.74,"text":"那我們現在其實都有在導入AI"},{"start":2915.74,"end":2917.74,"text":"我們是不是可以透過AI"},{"start":2917.74,"end":2919.74,"text":"來把它做一個整理更新"},{"start":2919.74,"end":2921.74,"text":"然後讓他用更現代的方式"},{"start":2921.74,"end":2922.74,"text":"更清楚"},{"start":2922.74,"end":2924.74,"text":"清晰明瞭的方式來呈現"},{"start":2924.74,"end":2925.74,"text":"這部分"},{"start":2925.74,"end":2926.74,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":2926.74,"end":2928.74,"text":"我們部裡面整理的這些"},{"start":2928.74,"end":2929.74,"text":"應該都是很常見"},{"start":2929.74,"end":2931.74,"text":"不管他是以前到現在"},{"start":2931.74,"end":2932.74,"text":"但是實際上"},{"start":2932.74,"end":2935.74,"text":"真正做很多教材訓練是保訓會做"},{"start":2935.74,"end":2937.74,"text":"所以保訓會每年都會做"},{"start":2937.74,"end":2939.74,"text":"各式各樣的教材"},{"start":2939.74,"end":2940.74,"text":"包括可能"},{"start":2940.74,"end":2942.74,"text":"我理解可能隨著現代的一個技術"},{"start":2942.74,"end":2944.74,"text":"他會越來越用生動的方式"},{"start":2944.74,"end":2946.74,"text":"去讓公務人員來上網"},{"start":2946.74,"end":2948.74,"text":"去了解什麼東西會違反刑事重點"},{"start":2948.74,"end":2950.74,"text":"事實上保訓會負責這個事情"},{"start":2950.74,"end":2951.74,"text":"他們應該有在做啦"},{"start":2951.74,"end":2953.74,"text":"那不過這個提醒也很好"},{"start":2953.74,"end":2954.74,"text":"我再回去了解"},{"start":2954.74,"end":2957.74,"text":"看看實際上狀況是怎麼樣的一個狀況"},{"start":2957.74,"end":2958.74,"text":"好不好"},{"start":2958.74,"end":2959.74,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":2959.74,"end":2960.74,"text":"我想今天部長的回答"},{"start":2960.74,"end":2962.74,"text":"我就是再強調一次重點"},{"start":2962.74,"end":2964.74,"text":"我也希望所有的"},{"start":2964.74,"end":2965.74,"text":"大家都可以一起來"},{"start":2965.74,"end":2966.74,"text":"記得這個重點"},{"start":2966.74,"end":2968.74,"text":"就是行政重力法的規範範圍"},{"start":2968.74,"end":2970.74,"text":"是針對於公職候選人"},{"start":2970.74,"end":2971.74,"text":"好"},{"start":2971.74,"end":2972.74,"text":"公務機關對不起公務機關"},{"start":2972.74,"end":2974.74,"text":"然後我們要去"},{"start":2974.74,"end":2977.74,"text":"要去什麼檢視他的行為的時候"},{"start":2977.74,"end":2980.74,"text":"是他必須去確認在法律上"},{"start":2980.74,"end":2982.74,"text":"定義是公職候選人"},{"start":2982.74,"end":2984.74,"text":"而不是媒體說的一個公職候選人"},{"start":2984.74,"end":2986.74,"text":"就可以開始來質疑"},{"start":2986.74,"end":2987.74,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":2987.74,"end":2988.74,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":2990.45,"end":2992.45,"text":"好謝謝張委員謝謝部長"},{"start":3004.62,"end":3008.62,"text":"好接下來我們有請陳昭之張委來進行諮詢謝謝"},{"start":3012.78,"end":3013.78,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":3013.78,"end":3015.78,"text":"我先請這個法務部次長"},{"start":3017.1,"end":3019.1,"text":"好有請黃市長"},{"start":3021.83,"end":3023.83,"text":"我想好謝謝次長"},{"start":3023.83,"end":3024.83,"text":"我想先請您澄清一下"},{"start":3024.83,"end":3025.83,"text":"昨天的這個質詢"},{"start":3025.83,"end":3027.83,"text":"大家都關注到一個"},{"start":3027.83,"end":3029.83,"text":"就是涉毒的這個檢察官"},{"start":3029.83,"end":3031.83,"text":"一個非常重的重點"},{"start":3031.83,"end":3033.83,"text":"大概很多個立委都提出質疑"},{"start":3033.83,"end":3035.83,"text":"但是因為答案不一致"},{"start":3035.83,"end":3039.83,"text":"我今天要你跟全國人民公開說清楚"},{"start":3039.8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nd":3256.53,"text":"也都是透過選舉出來的"},{"start":3256.53,"end":3258.53,"text":"那所以基本上這個部分"},{"start":3258.53,"end":3259.53,"text":"你認為透過選舉"},{"start":3259.53,"end":3261.53,"text":"所以它有這樣的機制"},{"start":3261.53,"end":3262.53,"text":"基本上我們在本部"},{"start":3262.53,"end":3264.53,"text":"在這個農水署的這個督導之下"},{"start":3264.53,"end":3267.53,"text":"對於所屬的這些財團法人也好"},{"start":3267.53,"end":3268.53,"text":"基金委也好"},{"start":3268.53,"end":3271.53,"text":"也都是有去發文"},{"start":3271.53,"end":3273.53,"text":"去要求他們去做這個行政中立"},{"start":3273.53,"end":3275.53,"text":"相關的這樣的一個動作"},{"start":3275.53,"end":3276.53,"text":"市長你就是說"},{"start":3276.53,"end":3279.53,"text":"你們有在防止這個假公濟私"},{"start":3279.53,"end":3280.53,"text":"我們剛剛談到這個"},{"start":3280.53,"end":3282.53,"text":"黃世傑爸爸黃金德"},{"start":3282.53,"end":3284.53,"text":"長期是桃園農田水利體系服務"},{"start":3284.53,"end":3285.53,"text":"那我們來看看發生什麼事"},{"start":3285.53,"end":3286.53,"text":"今年10月3號"},{"start":3288,"end":3291,"text":"黃世傑舉辦這個競選總部成立單位"},{"start":3291,"end":3293,"text":"連賴總統卓院長都出席了"},{"start":3293,"end":3294,"text":"到場站台喔"},{"start":3294,"end":3296,"text":"結果這個造勢活動"},{"start":3296,"end":3297,"text":"他用的土地"},{"start":3297,"end":3300,"text":"就是農水署石門管理處"},{"start":3300,"end":3302,"text":"管理的公有土地"},{"start":3302,"end":3303,"text":"市長這塊土地是位在"},{"start":3303,"end":3306,"text":"桃園市中壢區中壢段145地"},{"start":3306,"end":3309,"text":"面積高達1655平"},{"start":3309,"end":3310,"text":"租了兩天"},{"start":3310,"end":3312,"text":"租金是81700元"},{"start":3312,"end":3314,"text":"根據農水署你們自己"},{"start":3314,"end":3315,"text":"10月13號新聞說"},{"start":3315,"end":3316,"text":"一切依法辦理"},{"start":3316,"end":3319,"text":"符合年租金未達15萬的規定"},{"start":3319,"end":3320,"text":"所以可以直接出租"},{"start":3320,"end":3321,"text":"奇怪了耶"},{"start":3321,"end":3324,"text":"市長農田水利非市業用"},{"start":3324,"end":3327,"text":"不動產活化收益辦法第19條"},{"start":3327,"end":3328,"text":"第19條"},{"start":3328,"end":3329,"text":"白紙黑字寫的是"},{"start":3329,"end":3331,"text":"年租金未達15萬元"},{"start":3331,"end":3334,"text":"不是兩天租金未達15萬元吧"},{"start":3335.38,"end":3337.38,"text":"年租金未達15萬元"},{"start":3337.38,"end":3338.38,"text":"這個小學生都看得懂了"},{"start":3338.38,"end":3340.38,"text":"自然年租金未達15萬元"},{"start":3341.61,"end":3343.61,"text":"不是兩天租金未達15萬元吧"},{"start":3343.61,"end":3345.61,"text":"按照你們農水署自己公布的"},{"start":3345.61,"end":3349.61,"text":"申報地價跟6%的租率來計算"},{"start":3349.61,"end":3351.61,"text":"這塊土地換算全年的租金"},{"start":3351.61,"end":3354.61,"text":"高達1490萬元"},{"start":3354.61,"end":3355.61,"text":"所以我想請教你"},{"start":3357.27,"end":3359.27,"text":"租金能到兩天計算"},{"start":3359.67,"end":3361.67,"text":"符不符合年租金15萬的"},{"start":3361.67,"end":3364.67,"text":"淨女出租條件"},{"start":3365.35,"end":3366.35,"text":"是兩碼市吧"},{"start":3366.35,"end":3368.35,"text":"是不是兩碼市呢"},{"start":3368.35,"end":3369.35,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3369.35,"end":3370.35,"text":"第一個這個土地呢"},{"start":3370.35,"end":3372.35,"text":"是今年4月份"},{"start":3372.35,"end":3375.35,"text":"才從桃園市政府這邊移轉過來"},{"start":3375.35,"end":3377.35,"text":"那在我們農水署"},{"start":3377.35,"end":3379.35,"text":"在接收到這個土地之後呢"},{"start":3379.35,"end":3381.35,"text":"事實上它是有一個委託計畫"},{"start":3381.35,"end":3383.35,"text":"未來要規劃作為長遠租約的"},{"start":3383.35,"end":3385.35,"text":"這個前置的這些工作"},{"start":3385.35,"end":3386.35,"text":"沒有 市長請你回答我"},{"start":3386.35,"end":3387.35,"text":"我剛剛很清楚"},{"start":3387.35,"end":3390.35,"text":"我們這個農水署在所有的這個"},{"start":3390.35,"end":3393.35,"text":"我們都希望把這個地方"},{"start":3393.35,"end":3395.35,"text":"我們的所有的這個用地"},{"start":3395.35,"end":3396.35,"text":"可以盡量的活化"},{"start":3396.35,"end":3398.35,"text":"那但是不是所有的用地"},{"start":3398.35,"end":3399.35,"text":"都可以順利的"},{"start":3399.35,"end":3400.35,"text":"市長你在浪費我的質詢時間"},{"start":3400.35,"end":3402.35,"text":"順利的承租啦"},{"start":3402.35,"end":3404.35,"text":"所以基本上也有那種短租的情況"},{"start":3404.35,"end":3406.35,"text":"年租金未達15萬元"},{"start":3406.35,"end":3409.35,"text":"才可以進制出租啊"},{"start":3409.35,"end":3410.35,"text":"你這個年租金"},{"start":3410.35,"end":3412.35,"text":"事實上你算起來是1000"},{"start":3413.18,"end":3415.18,"text":"但是它並沒有要出一年"},{"start":3415.18,"end":3416.18,"text":"1500萬啊"},{"start":3416.92,"end":3417.92,"text":"但是它並沒有要出一年"},{"start":3417.92,"end":3420.92,"text":"所以基本上對於這種短租的這個部分"},{"start":3420.92,"end":3423.92,"text":"當時候這個處理面的同仁"},{"start":3423.92,"end":3425.92,"text":"他是以這個365天來"},{"start":3425.92,"end":3426.92,"text":"那我問你"},{"start":3426.92,"end":3427.92,"text":"那是不是高價值"},{"start":3427.92,"end":3429.92,"text":"全台灣高價值的公有土地"},{"start":3429.92,"end":3430.92,"text":"都可以用相同的方法"},{"start":3430.92,"end":3434.92,"text":"我們還是希望規劃以長期租約為主"},{"start":3434.92,"end":3435.92,"text":"那但是在租約"},{"start":3435.92,"end":3437.92,"text":"市長是你在解釋這個法規嗎"},{"start":3437.92,"end":3439.92,"text":"是部長在解釋這個法規嗎"},{"start":3439.92,"end":3441.92,"text":"是誰在解釋這個法令呢"},{"start":3444.53,"end":3445.53,"text":"你想解釋嗎"},{"start":3445.53,"end":3447.53,"text":"明明規範很清楚啊"},{"start":3448.67,"end":3451.67,"text":"年租金未達15萬才得這個進制出租啊"},{"start":3451.67,"end":3453.67,"text":"其他要公開交標啊"},{"start":3453.67,"end":3457.67,"text":"這個部分是我們這個處理面的這個"},{"start":3457.67,"end":3458.67,"text":"它是兩天未達15萬"},{"start":3458.67,"end":3459.67,"text":"所以想辦法"},{"start":3459.67,"end":3460.67,"text":"現在兩天沒有達15萬"},{"start":3460.67,"end":3461.67,"text":"幾天沒有達15萬"},{"start":3461.67,"end":3463.67,"text":"啊就躲過了就模糊"},{"start":3463.67,"end":3464.67,"text":"含糊帶過了嗎"},{"start":3466,"end":3470,"text":"委員說的這個部分應該是我們的那個原則吧"},{"start":3471.19,"end":3472.19,"text":"跟委員補充報告"},{"start":3472.19,"end":3474.19,"text":"那因為在過去"},{"start":3474.19,"end":3477.19,"text":"這個大部分農田水利署各管理處"},{"start":3477.19,"end":3480.19,"text":"就是十年以下都自有各管理處在做處理"},{"start":3480.19,"end":3482.19,"text":"那的確像委員您說的"},{"start":3482.19,"end":3485.19,"text":"大部分都是處於這個年租是比較多"},{"start":3485.19,"end":3487.19,"text":"不過在極少數的個案裡面"},{"start":3487.19,"end":3488.19,"text":"的確也有一種"},{"start":3488.19,"end":3490.19,"text":"年租也是你們寫的嘛"},{"start":3490.19,"end":3492.19,"text":"年租也是你們寫的嘛"},{"start":3492.19,"end":3493.19,"text":"小學都看得懂"},{"start":3493.19,"end":3495.19,"text":"因為大部分的案子的確都是年租"},{"start":3495.19,"end":3497.19,"text":"市長署長您是署長嗎"},{"start":3497.19,"end":3498.19,"text":"我更質疑的是"},{"start":3498.19,"end":3499.19,"text":"還有農水署"},{"start":3499.19,"end":3502.19,"text":"有農水署10月16日發新聞稿強調有辦理現地會刊喔"},{"start":3503.36,"end":3505.36,"text":"也經過這個租金查定小組委員審查"},{"start":3505.36,"end":3507.36,"text":"但媒體報導9月11號"},{"start":3507.36,"end":3509.36,"text":"9月21日辦理會刊喔"},{"start":3509.36,"end":3511.36,"text":"不到兩天"},{"start":3511.96,"end":3513.96,"text":"就回文合訂租金81700次漲"},{"start":3515.54,"end":3517.54,"text":"租金查定小組哪一天開會"},{"start":3518.26,"end":3520.26,"text":"哪些委員參加審查的什麼"},{"start":3521.67,"end":3523.67,"text":"那更重要的請問"},{"start":3524.13,"end":3526.13,"text":"誰是申請人"},{"start":3525.95,"end":3527.95,"text":"誰是申請人"},{"start":3527.95,"end":3529.95,"text":"可以先回答我這幾件事嗎"},{"start":3529.95,"end":3531.95,"text":"這都發生過啦"},{"start":3531.95,"end":3533.95,"text":"哪一天開會"},{"start":3533.95,"end":3535.95,"text":"哪些委員參加審查的什麼"},{"start":3535.95,"end":3537.95,"text":"誰是申請人"},{"start":3535.5,"end":3537.5,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3537.5,"end":3539.5,"text":"這個個案是在"},{"start":3539.5,"end":3541.5,"text":"因為委員關心之後我們就去了解"},{"start":3541.5,"end":3543.5,"text":"那在9月18號"},{"start":3543.5,"end":3545.5,"text":"申請人是在9月18號提出申請"},{"start":3545.5,"end":3547.5,"text":"那麼依照石門管理處"},{"start":3547.5,"end":3549.5,"text":"申請人是誰"},{"start":3549.5,"end":3551.5,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3551.5,"end":3553.5,"text":"因為這個有"},{"start":3553.5,"end":3555.5,"text":"這有個資問題嗎這國家的土地"},{"start":3555.5,"end":3557.5,"text":"我們不能知道申請誰是誰"},{"start":3557.5,"end":3559.5,"text":"申請人是誰嗎"},{"start":3559.5,"end":3561.5,"text":"因為現在農水署各管理處的"},{"start":3561.5,"end":3563.5,"text":"講不出來就是不能講嗎"},{"start":3562.44,"end":3564.44,"text":"那他是9月18號申請之後"},{"start":3564.44,"end":3566.44,"text":"然後"},{"start":3566.44,"end":3568.44,"text":"9月21號去辦限定會刊"},{"start":3568.44,"end":3570.44,"text":"兩天後就核准了嗎"},{"start":3570.44,"end":3572.44,"text":"然後限定會刊完了以後"},{"start":3572.44,"end":3574.44,"text":"那麼經過他們石門管理處的"},{"start":3574.44,"end":3576.44,"text":"這個審查委員他們的"},{"start":3576.44,"end":3578.44,"text":"會審之後"},{"start":3578.44,"end":3580.44,"text":"書面會審之後"},{"start":3580.44,"end":3582.44,"text":"就在9月23號做成這樣的"},{"start":3582.44,"end":3584.44,"text":"一個交換來繳費"},{"start":3584.44,"end":3586.44,"text":"不是說今天你說了算啦"},{"start":3586.44,"end":3588.44,"text":"我請次長直接回答我這筆土地是誰提出申請"},{"start":3588.44,"end":3590.44,"text":"黃金德有沒有參與會刊跟協調"},{"start":3590.44,"end":3592.44,"text":"任何一項"},{"start":3592.44,"end":3594.44,"text":"甚至向這個農水署提出要求"},{"start":3594.44,"end":3596.44,"text":"因為如果黃金德"},{"start":3596.44,"end":3598.44,"text":"確實參與的話"},{"start":3598.44,"end":3600.44,"text":"那農業部會不會有可能"},{"start":3600.44,"end":3602.44,"text":"有沒有去調查相關人會不會受到這個"},{"start":3602.44,"end":3604.44,"text":"不當的請託或壓力"},{"start":3604.44,"end":3606.44,"text":"有沒有檢視利益回避的問題"},{"start":3606.44,"end":3608.44,"text":"農水署說任何人"},{"start":3608.44,"end":3610.44,"text":"都可以提出申請全部採樣標準"},{"start":3610.44,"end":3612.44,"text":"請問次長那我來請問你"},{"start":3612.44,"end":3614.44,"text":"過去有多少一般民眾"},{"start":3614.44,"end":3616.44,"text":"可以用相同的條件相同的程序"},{"start":3616.44,"end":3618.44,"text":"這麼短的時間兩天"},{"start":3618.87,"end":3620.87,"text":"可以成功完成這個土地的承租"},{"start":3620.87,"end":3622.87,"text":"真的是誰來都可以跟你們租嗎"},{"start":3622.87,"end":3624.87,"text":"都會被許可嗎是這樣嗎"},{"start":3624.87,"end":3626.87,"text":"次長那個或是這個農水署來回答"},{"start":3628.96,"end":3630.96,"text":"大家都可以嗎"},{"start":3630.96,"end":3632.96,"text":"有過嗎"},{"start":3633.21,"end":3635.21,"text":"就是像這些短租的這個案例"},{"start":3635.21,"end":3637.21,"text":"或者是長租事實上很多民眾"},{"start":3637.21,"end":3639.21,"text":"其實絕大部分都"},{"start":3639.21,"end":3641.21,"text":"有過對不對"},{"start":3641.21,"end":3643.21,"text":"農水署不能只發信息"},{"start":3643.21,"end":3645.21,"text":"說我們依法辦理"},{"start":3645.21,"end":3647.21,"text":"這對我們是不夠的"},{"start":3647.21,"end":3649.21,"text":"我現在要求農業部請你們"},{"start":3649.21,"end":3651.21,"text":"認真聽好"},{"start":3651.21,"end":3653.21,"text":"把本案的申請書"},{"start":3653.21,"end":3655.21,"text":"會刊記錄委員名單"},{"start":3655.21,"end":3657.21,"text":"會議記錄核准簽成及"},{"start":3657.21,"end":3659.21,"text":"租賃契約以及你們說的"},{"start":3659.21,"end":3661.21,"text":"別的民眾也用過"},{"start":3661.21,"end":3663.21,"text":"以及近三人用相同的條件"},{"start":3663.21,"end":3665.21,"text":"出租的案例提供給我"},{"start":3666.84,"end":3668.84,"text":"可以嗎 我要這些資料"},{"start":3668.84,"end":3670.84,"text":"我們有資格要這些資料吧"},{"start":3670.84,"end":3672.84,"text":"我們就這個可以提供給你們"},{"start":3672.84,"end":3674.84,"text":"還有你說別人也可以用嘛"},{"start":3674.84,"end":3676.84,"text":"那我要一起看嘛"},{"start":3676.84,"end":3678.84,"text":"什麼時候給我"},{"start":3678.84,"end":3680.84,"text":"這個都發生過的事啊"},{"start":3680.84,"end":3682.84,"text":"你既然說以前有過啊"},{"start":3682.84,"end":3684.84,"text":"然後這件事也發生過啊"},{"start":3684.84,"end":3686.84,"text":"什麼時候給我"},{"start":3686.84,"end":3688.84,"text":"我們依程序來簽辦提供"},{"start":3688.84,"end":3690.84,"text":"多久"},{"start":3686.49,"end":3688.49,"text":"兩個禮拜"},{"start":3688.49,"end":3690.49,"text":"已經都發生過的東西啊"},{"start":3690.49,"end":3692.49,"text":"這不是未來 兩個禮拜"},{"start":3692.49,"end":3694.49,"text":"需要到兩個禮拜嗎"},{"start":3694.32,"end":3696.32,"text":"可是你核准就還兩天而已啊"},{"start":3696.32,"end":3698.32,"text":"我不要兩天內給我"},{"start":3698.32,"end":3700.32,"text":"你核准一個案子開會審查"},{"start":3700.32,"end":3702.32,"text":"討論兩天就可以完成"},{"start":3702.32,"end":3704.32,"text":"核准 為什麼你給我要"},{"start":3704.32,"end":3706.32,"text":"兩個週呢 兩星期呢"},{"start":3706.32,"end":3708.32,"text":"那跟委員說我們下個禮拜"},{"start":3708.32,"end":3710.32,"text":"一個禮拜提供好不好"},{"start":3710.32,"end":3712.32,"text":"這個連假過後就馬上給我"},{"start":3712.32,"end":3714.32,"text":"禮拜二我需要這個資料 好嗎"},{"start":3714.32,"end":3716.32,"text":"好 那請法務部次長"},{"start":3716.32,"end":3718.32,"text":"次長 我一邊講"},{"start":3718.32,"end":3720.32,"text":"為什麼有人發帽子"},{"start":3720.36,"end":3722.36,"text":"關廟面就被抓了"},{"start":3722.36,"end":3724.36,"text":"農水署自己活動發三百塊的"},{"start":3724.36,"end":3726.36,"text":"這個雞蛋幫黃旭捷服選不算會選"},{"start":3726.36,"end":3728.36,"text":"難道是因為"},{"start":3728.36,"end":3730.36,"text":"黃旭捷擔任過法務部次長"},{"start":3730.36,"end":3732.36,"text":"底下檢察官不敢辦嗎"},{"start":3733.64,"end":3735.64,"text":"我和你的懷疑啊"},{"start":3735.64,"end":3737.64,"text":"這案子都已經分案偵辦了"},{"start":3737.64,"end":3739.64,"text":"都在偵辦中了"},{"start":3739.64,"end":3741.64,"text":"是他自案還是曾自案"},{"start":3741.64,"end":3743.64,"text":"他自案都在偵辦中"},{"start":3743.64,"end":3745.64,"text":"他自案也可以簽結對不對"},{"start":3745.64,"end":3747.64,"text":"不不不 他自案他簽結"},{"start":3747.64,"end":3749.64,"text":"一定有我們法律上的事由才可以簽結"},{"start":3749.64,"end":3751.64,"text":"什麼事會出來"},{"start":3751.64,"end":3753.64,"text":"這麼敏感的案子"},{"start":3753.86,"end":3755.86,"text":"每個個案都不一樣"},{"start":3755.86,"end":3757.86,"text":"我們沒有辦法預判他什麼時候可以簽結"},{"start":3757.94,"end":3759.94,"text":"好 資料出來就立刻"},{"start":3759.94,"end":3761.94,"text":"麻煩交給我辦公室"},{"start":3761.94,"end":3763.94,"text":"這件事事關重大"},{"start":3763.94,"end":3765.94,"text":"好 那再請農業部次長"},{"start":3765.94,"end":3767.94,"text":"針對需要公開標註的國有土地"},{"start":3767.94,"end":3769.94,"text":"盡自出租"},{"start":3769.94,"end":3771.94,"text":"農水署署長明知道"},{"start":3771.94,"end":3773.94,"text":"是違法還要凹"},{"start":3774.63,"end":3776.63,"text":"我們今天的主題是公務人員行政中立"},{"start":3778.67,"end":3780.67,"text":"請問農水署我舉的例子這麼清楚"},{"start":3780.67,"end":3782.67,"text":"昨天也有人放影音"},{"start":3783.71,"end":3785.71,"text":"有沒有違反行政中立呢"},{"start":3786.56,"end":3788.56,"text":"這樣沒有違反行政中立嗎"},{"start":3788.86,"end":3790.86,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3790.86,"end":3794.86,"text":"第一個在他這個舉辦的這個活動的日期來說的話"},{"start":3794.86,"end":3798.86,"text":"那在他並非在這個公告日的這個"},{"start":3798.86,"end":3800.86,"text":"他是在公告日之前"},{"start":3800.86,"end":3804.86,"text":"請稍等 你們剛剛今天大概想盡辦法就凹出了一個日期"},{"start":3806.05,"end":3808.05,"text":"情理法還有倫理"},{"start":3808.8,"end":3810.8,"text":"你 總坦跟"},{"start":3810.98,"end":3812.98,"text":"行政院長都到了"},{"start":3812.98,"end":3814.98,"text":"那個是他"},{"start":3814.98,"end":3816.98,"text":"那個是他選舉造勢的日期"},{"start":3816.98,"end":3818.98,"text":"跟我們管理處的那個活動"},{"start":3818.98,"end":3820.98,"text":"昨天播放的是我們那個管理處的這個"},{"start":3820.98,"end":3822.98,"text":"管理處的"},{"start":3822.98,"end":3824.98,"text":"然後他進行"},{"start":3824.98,"end":3826.98,"text":"你現在跟我凹一個日期"},{"start":3826.98,"end":3828.98,"text":"你們什麼時候知道黃市這個次長是要去競選"},{"start":3828.98,"end":3830.98,"text":"去要競選桃園市市長"},{"start":3830.98,"end":3832.98,"text":"他不是因此離職嗎"},{"start":3832.98,"end":3834.98,"text":"我不瞭解"},{"start":3834.98,"end":3836.98,"text":"你們現在在玩文字遊戲"},{"start":3836.98,"end":3838.98,"text":"情理法的你讓全國人民看聽不聽得下去"},{"start":3840.6,"end":3842.6,"text":"法律沒有倫理嗎"},{"start":3842.6,"end":3844.6,"text":"沒有道德標準嗎"},{"start":3844.6,"end":3846.6,"text":"沒有理跟情嗎"},{"start":3846.99,"end":3848.99,"text":"他不足以影響嗎"},{"start":3848.92,"end":3850.92,"text":"這種會選"},{"start":3851.03,"end":3855.03,"text":"改變選舉全人的意志足以影響"},{"start":3855.03,"end":3857.03,"text":"你覺得沒有問題嗎"},{"start":3857.03,"end":3859.03,"text":"我之前也在這個民間的團體裡面待過"},{"start":3859.03,"end":3861.03,"text":"所以基本上就是"},{"start":3861.03,"end":3863.03,"text":"我們舉辦活動的時候"},{"start":3863.03,"end":3865.03,"text":"各界的民意代表或地方人士來到"},{"start":3865.03,"end":3867.03,"text":"的會場"},{"start":3867.03,"end":3869.03,"text":"你們簡直是全力以赴"},{"start":3869.03,"end":3871.03,"text":"我們都會感謝表達祝福"},{"start":3871.03,"end":3873.03,"text":"委歸屆他用"},{"start":3873.03,"end":3875.03,"text":"也讓他在那邊喊還送三百塊的東西"},{"start":3875.03,"end":3877.03,"text":"那個是我們活動的裡面"},{"start":3877.03,"end":3879.03,"text":"的"},{"start":3879.03,"end":3881.03,"text":"不是今年才有"},{"start":3881.03,"end":3883.03,"text":"我們每次活動都是這樣子處理的"},{"start":3883.03,"end":3885.03,"text":"市長"},{"start":3885.03,"end":3887.03,"text":"我請教你喔 農水署這件明顯"},{"start":3887.03,"end":3889.03,"text":"這個是超速鑑"},{"start":3889.03,"end":3891.03,"text":"可短租"},{"start":3891.03,"end":3893.03,"text":"超便宜的特權"},{"start":3893.03,"end":3895.03,"text":"濫用國土案"},{"start":3895.03,"end":3897.03,"text":"你們聲稱這個"},{"start":3897.03,"end":3899.03,"text":"政風調查結果是查無不乏"},{"start":3899.03,"end":3901.03,"text":"很難看"},{"start":3901.03,"end":3903.03,"text":"人家的市政物證人證這麼齊全"},{"start":3903.03,"end":3905.03,"text":"你說查無不乏"},{"start":3905.72,"end":3907.72,"text":"你這樣明顯的包庇"},{"start":3907.72,"end":3909.72,"text":"這個部分的話"},{"start":3909.72,"end":3911.72,"text":"我覺得在這個"},{"start":3911.72,"end":3913.72,"text":"個案裡面"},{"start":3913.72,"end":3915.72,"text":"我覺得我們的同仁"},{"start":3915.72,"end":3917.72,"text":"我們今天談的是國有土地"},{"start":3917.72,"end":3919.72,"text":"你們會做榜樣"},{"start":3919.72,"end":3921.72,"text":"全國效法嗎"},{"start":3921.72,"end":3923.72,"text":"他們有一個管理辦法"},{"start":3923.72,"end":3925.72,"text":"還有這個出租的原則"},{"start":3925.72,"end":3927.72,"text":"同事大概就是依照"},{"start":3927.72,"end":3929.72,"text":"這樣的原則來辦理"},{"start":3929.72,"end":3931.72,"text":"年租金小於四五萬才行"},{"start":3931.72,"end":3933.72,"text":"那硬拗"},{"start":3933.72,"end":3935.72,"text":"小學生都不會解釋成是那兩千四五萬"},{"start":3935.72,"end":3937.72,"text":"如果這個出租原則裡面"},{"start":3937.72,"end":3939.72,"text":"有不夠詳盡或者是"},{"start":3939.72,"end":3941.72,"text":"沒有辦法符合的這個部分的話"},{"start":3941.72,"end":3943.72,"text":"農水署身為簽約的甲方"},{"start":3943.72,"end":3945.72,"text":"明知道以方違法"},{"start":3945.72,"end":3947.72,"text":"還協助這個蒙蔽"},{"start":3947.72,"end":3949.72,"text":"成諸人的資訊就是包庇土地"},{"start":3949.72,"end":3951.72,"text":"最正確鑿的公務員違法"},{"start":3951.72,"end":3953.72,"text":"曲解法令土地"},{"start":3953.72,"end":3955.72,"text":"土地特定對象"},{"start":3955.72,"end":3957.72,"text":"農業部趕快查"},{"start":3957.37,"end":3959.37,"text":"那全序部不好意思"},{"start":3959.37,"end":3961.37,"text":"市部長您剛剛說已經在"},{"start":3961.61,"end":3963.61,"text":"全序部要查"},{"start":3963.61,"end":3965.61,"text":"您剛剛也報告行政中立"},{"start":3965.61,"end":3967.61,"text":"您也要有一份報告"},{"start":3967.61,"end":3969.61,"text":"不好意思法務部黃政"},{"start":3969.61,"end":3971.61,"text":"您說再查"},{"start":3970.57,"end":3972.57,"text":"請三位好嗎"},{"start":3972.57,"end":3974.57,"text":"農業部全序部法務部"},{"start":3974.57,"end":3976.57,"text":"相關部會趕快查"},{"start":3977.12,"end":3979.12,"text":"不要太離譜嘛"},{"start":3979.12,"end":3981.12,"text":"你要紅磡要包庇你也要"},{"start":3981.12,"end":3983.12,"text":"不要做到很難看嘛"},{"start":3983.58,"end":3985.58,"text":"人證、市政、物證全齊全"},{"start":3987.09,"end":3989.09,"text":"你們都說沒事"},{"start":3989.09,"end":3991.09,"text":"你希望全國人民學習這樣的風氣嗎"},{"start":3991.09,"end":3993.09,"text":"你希望台灣的選舉風氣是這樣子的嗎"},{"start":3995.14,"end":3997.14,"text":"麻煩三個部會的調查報告"},{"start":3997.14,"end":3999.14,"text":"剛剛我們提到兩天後"},{"start":3999.14,"end":4001.14,"text":"台風連假過後"},{"start":4001.14,"end":4003.14,"text":"也許不是台風連假過後"},{"start":4003.14,"end":4005.14,"text":"我就要知道您過去說"},{"start":4005.14,"end":4007.14,"text":"這個是很多人、很多民眾"},{"start":4007.14,"end":4009.14,"text":"也有可以達到這樣的使用"},{"start":4009.14,"end":4011.14,"text":"這塊土地"},{"start":4011.14,"end":4013.14,"text":"然後這一次針對這個案子的使用"},{"start":4013.14,"end":4015.14,"text":"我剛剛提了六項"},{"start":4015.14,"end":4017.14,"text":"請再跟我一一確認我需要的資料"},{"start":4017.14,"end":4019.14,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4019.1,"end":4021.1,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4029.46,"end":4031.46,"text":"我們接下來請翁小林委員質詢"},{"start":4041.88,"end":4043.88,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4043.88,"end":4045.88,"text":"這邊首先有請市部長"},{"start":4045.88,"end":4047.88,"text":"還有法務部的黃次長"},{"start":4049,"end":4051,"text":"市部長黃次長"},{"start":4052.38,"end":4054.38,"text":"也麻煩農業部的黃次長好了"},{"start":4054.38,"end":4056.38,"text":"是 好農業部次長"},{"start":4059.67,"end":4061.67,"text":"部長次長好"},{"start":4061.67,"end":4063.67,"text":"我很感謝首先主席"},{"start":4063.67,"end":4065.67,"text":"他從昨天"},{"start":4065.67,"end":4068.67,"text":"這一週連續兩天都安排"},{"start":4068.67,"end":4070.67,"text":"有關於跟選舉相關的議題"},{"start":4070.67,"end":4072.67,"text":"因為我們現在發現"},{"start":4072.67,"end":4075.67,"text":"民進黨政府執政十年以來"},{"start":4075.67,"end":4077.67,"text":"那麼民眾感受到"},{"start":4077.67,"end":4079.67,"text":"就是司法、競選還有行政"},{"start":4079.67,"end":4081.67,"text":"競選的問題是越來越嚴重"},{"start":4081.67,"end":4083.67,"text":"那麼昨天我們比較是"},{"start":4083.67,"end":4085.67,"text":"集中在有關於就是司法競選的問題"},{"start":4085.67,"end":4087.67,"text":"那麼今天是"},{"start":4087.67,"end":4089.67,"text":"談到就是有關於這個"},{"start":4089.67,"end":4091.67,"text":"政府可能會動用行政資源"},{"start":4091.67,"end":4093.67,"text":"來干預選舉、妨害選舉"},{"start":4093.67,"end":4095.67,"text":"的這樣的一個議題"},{"start":4095.67,"end":4097.67,"text":"那麼因為現在距離地方選舉"},{"start":4097.67,"end":4099.67,"text":"只剩一個多月"},{"start":4099.67,"end":4101.67,"text":"然後大家對於行政機關的"},{"start":4101.67,"end":4103.67,"text":"這個舉動都非常的關注"},{"start":4103.67,"end":4105.67,"text":"那也很不希望看到"},{"start":4105.67,"end":4107.67,"text":"民進黨政府還是像先前一樣"},{"start":4107.67,"end":4109.67,"text":"就是挾著中央行政資源的優勢"},{"start":4109.67,"end":4111.67,"text":"然後去幫自己"},{"start":4111.67,"end":4113.67,"text":"去做一些事情"},{"start":4113.67,"end":4115.67,"text":"然後去做一些事情"},{"start":4115.67,"end":4117.67,"text":"然後去幫這個"},{"start":4117.67,"end":4119.67,"text":"參選人造勢"},{"start":4119.67,"end":4121.67,"text":"那麼這個事實上就是"},{"start":4121.67,"end":4123.67,"text":"剛剛其實也講了幾個案例"},{"start":4123.67,"end":4125.67,"text":"那我在這裡首先想請教"},{"start":4125.67,"end":4127.67,"text":"部長還有兩位次長的事"},{"start":4131.02,"end":4135.02,"text":"農水署還有農田水利發展基金會"},{"start":4135.02,"end":4137.02,"text":"以及今天其實沒有"},{"start":4137.02,"end":4139.02,"text":"邀請到交通部了"},{"start":4139.02,"end":4141.02,"text":"還有一個基隆港務公司"},{"start":4141.02,"end":4143.02,"text":"那麼這三個機關"},{"start":4143.02,"end":4145.02,"text":"算不算是行政中立法"},{"start":4145.02,"end":4147.02,"text":"所規範的對象"},{"start":4147.02,"end":4149.02,"text":"可以請部長先"},{"start":4149.02,"end":4151.02,"text":"我可以先確定一下"},{"start":4151.02,"end":4153.02,"text":"農水署一定是"},{"start":4153.02,"end":4155.02,"text":"因為他是政府機關"},{"start":4155.02,"end":4157.02,"text":"那至於他所屬的下面的基金"},{"start":4157.02,"end":4159.02,"text":"這個性質上可能要農業部來"},{"start":4159.02,"end":4161.02,"text":"先做說明"},{"start":4161.02,"end":4163.02,"text":"政府機關公務機關都算是適用對象"},{"start":4163.02,"end":4165.02,"text":"好那就先請那個"},{"start":4166.94,"end":4168.94,"text":"先請黃次長"},{"start":4168.94,"end":4170.94,"text":"農水署還有剛剛所提到的"},{"start":4170.94,"end":4172.94,"text":"那個基金會也是屬於公務機關"},{"start":4172.94,"end":4174.94,"text":"公務機關還有"},{"start":4174.94,"end":4176.94,"text":"政府指派的這個財團法人"},{"start":4176.94,"end":4178.94,"text":"財團法人"},{"start":4178.94,"end":4180.94,"text":"簡單來說就是他受不受到"},{"start":4180.94,"end":4182.94,"text":"行政中立法規範"},{"start":4182.94,"end":4184.94,"text":"那這部分是不是可以請黃墨信黃次長"},{"start":4184.94,"end":4186.94,"text":"再確認是不是"},{"start":4186.94,"end":4188.94,"text":"農田水利發展基金會"},{"start":4188.94,"end":4190.94,"text":"同樣的是受到"},{"start":4190.43,"end":4192.43,"text":"行政中立法的規範"},{"start":4192.43,"end":4194.43,"text":"這個是法規是這個"},{"start":4194.43,"end":4196.43,"text":"權勢部跟主管機關"},{"start":4196.43,"end":4198.43,"text":"可是你是財團法人的主管機關"},{"start":4198.43,"end":4200.43,"text":"財團法人的主管機關"},{"start":4200.43,"end":4202.43,"text":"中央目的主管機關不是法務部"},{"start":4202.43,"end":4204.43,"text":"他的法中央目的主管機關是農水署"},{"start":4204.43,"end":4206.43,"text":"但是那時像農田水利"},{"start":4206.43,"end":4208.43,"text":"發展研究基金會他是屬於什麼"},{"start":4208.43,"end":4210.43,"text":"他是屬於財團法人吧"},{"start":4211.17,"end":4213.17,"text":"他是財團法人嘛"},{"start":4213.17,"end":4215.17,"text":"是 所以次長這邊的話"},{"start":4215.17,"end":4217.17,"text":"他應該是不是屬於"},{"start":4217.17,"end":4219.17,"text":"就是我們這裡講的行政中立法的"},{"start":4219.17,"end":4221.17,"text":"第17條第9款"},{"start":4221.17,"end":4223.17,"text":"第一項第9款裡面"},{"start":4224.25,"end":4226.25,"text":"應該是適用"},{"start":4226.25,"end":4228.25,"text":"所以我們就先確立這個大前提嘛"},{"start":4228.25,"end":4230.25,"text":"就是這幾個機關"},{"start":4230.25,"end":4232.25,"text":"都適用"},{"start":4232.25,"end":4234.25,"text":"金融港務公司呢"},{"start":4235.03,"end":4237.03,"text":"金融港務公司"},{"start":4237.03,"end":4239.03,"text":"我理解他應該是國營的"},{"start":4239.03,"end":4241.03,"text":"是國營公司吧"},{"start":4241.03,"end":4243.03,"text":"交通部所屬的"},{"start":4243.03,"end":4245.03,"text":"國營公司"},{"start":4245.03,"end":4247.03,"text":"如果他是屬於"},{"start":4247.03,"end":4249.03,"text":"假設他是屬於這一類型的一個事情"},{"start":4249.03,"end":4251.03,"text":"他應該是廣義的公務機關"},{"start":4251.03,"end":4253.03,"text":"好 那麼如果說他們都是屬於"},{"start":4253.03,"end":4255.03,"text":"這裡行政中立法"},{"start":4255.03,"end":4257.03,"text":"所適用的對象的話"},{"start":4257.03,"end":4259.03,"text":"那麼這幾個"},{"start":4259.79,"end":4261.79,"text":"機關包含就是"},{"start":4261.79,"end":4263.79,"text":"金融港務公司然後農田水利"},{"start":4263.79,"end":4265.79,"text":"發展研究基金會的董監事"},{"start":4265.79,"end":4267.79,"text":"都同樣受到"},{"start":4267.79,"end":4269.79,"text":"行政中立法的規範"},{"start":4269.79,"end":4271.79,"text":"我必須要先確立這樣的一個"},{"start":4271.79,"end":4273.79,"text":"前提 不過就是說"},{"start":4273.79,"end":4275.79,"text":"我們在這裡呢 還有再"},{"start":4275.79,"end":4277.79,"text":"進一步的講的就是說"},{"start":4277.79,"end":4279.79,"text":"那既然如果他們這幾個機關"},{"start":4279.79,"end":4281.79,"text":"都適用行政中立法"},{"start":4281.79,"end":4283.79,"text":"那我們就來看看過去曾經發生過"},{"start":4283.79,"end":4285.79,"text":"什麼樣的一個案例"},{"start":4285.79,"end":4287.79,"text":"然後讓大家覺得說這些機關"},{"start":4287.79,"end":4289.79,"text":"到底有沒有遵守行政中立法"},{"start":4289.79,"end":4291.79,"text":"首先我們來講的就是"},{"start":4291.79,"end":4293.79,"text":"基隆的港務分公司"},{"start":4293.79,"end":4295.79,"text":"那麼先前呢"},{"start":4295.79,"end":4297.79,"text":"這個基隆港務分公司"},{"start":4297.79,"end":4299.79,"text":"我在講的就是因為他是"},{"start":4299.79,"end":4301.79,"text":"屬於交通部所屬的"},{"start":4301.79,"end":4303.79,"text":"這國營事業 那麼所以"},{"start":4303.79,"end":4305.79,"text":"在之前曾經發生過一個案例"},{"start":4305.79,"end":4307.79,"text":"就是基隆市政府"},{"start":4307.79,"end":4309.79,"text":"想要向基隆港務分公司"},{"start":4309.79,"end":4311.79,"text":"借一天的時間來辦理"},{"start":4311.79,"end":4313.79,"text":"龍舟比賽"},{"start":4313.79,"end":4315.79,"text":"結果這個活動"},{"start":4315.79,"end":4317.79,"text":"就被拒絕"},{"start":4317.79,"end":4319.79,"text":"可是民進黨的"},{"start":4319.79,"end":4321.79,"text":"基隆市的市長參選人"},{"start":4321.79,"end":4323.79,"text":"童子瑋 他同樣是基隆市議會的"},{"start":4323.79,"end":4325.79,"text":"這個議長"},{"start":4325.79,"end":4327.79,"text":"他呢 卻可以呢"},{"start":4328.54,"end":4330.54,"text":"這個在基隆的港口"},{"start":4330.54,"end":4332.54,"text":"放一個大型的"},{"start":4333.26,"end":4335.26,"text":"叫什麼黃阿瑪的浮球"},{"start":4336.42,"end":4338.42,"text":"在那裡可以放兩個月"},{"start":4338.42,"end":4340.42,"text":"一直到選前的前一天"},{"start":4341.33,"end":4343.33,"text":"所以想請問部長是"},{"start":4343.33,"end":4345.33,"text":"這個有沒有違法行政中立法"},{"start":4346.88,"end":4347.38,"text":"呃"},{"start":4348.23,"end":4349.23,"text":"委員 我跟委員報告"},{"start":4349.23,"end":4351.23,"text":"因為部裡面從來不做個案的認定"},{"start":4351.23,"end":4353.23,"text":"寧寧知道法律的一個架構"},{"start":4353.23,"end":4355.23,"text":"我們是規範說什麼機關適用"},{"start":4355.23,"end":4357.23,"text":"如果適用的話 哪些人適用"},{"start":4357.23,"end":4359.23,"text":"譬如像說 港務公司是一個"},{"start":4359.23,"end":4361.23,"text":"公營事業 它裡面我們"},{"start":4361.43,"end":4364.43,"text":"準用的對象就是主要負責決策的人"},{"start":4364.43,"end":4366.43,"text":"就適用行政中立法規定"},{"start":4366.43,"end":4368.43,"text":"那至於這個案到底是"},{"start":4368.43,"end":4369.43,"text":"如果有疑慮"},{"start":4369.43,"end":4371.43,"text":"就應該由 譬如像說"},{"start":4371.43,"end":4373.43,"text":"跟港務公司提起 或者是跟"},{"start":4373.43,"end":4375.43,"text":"交通部提 由他們來認定"},{"start":4375.43,"end":4377.43,"text":"我想整個行政中立的一個"},{"start":4377.43,"end":4379.43,"text":"個案處理程序都是這樣子"},{"start":4379.43,"end":4381.43,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":4391.43,"end":4393.43,"text":"這個幫 現在這個"},{"start":4393.43,"end":4395.43,"text":"基隆市市長的參選人同志委"},{"start":4395.43,"end":4397.43,"text":"然後放一個大型的浮球"},{"start":4397.43,"end":4399.43,"text":"那一直在這個港口 一直放到他選前前一天"},{"start":4399.43,"end":4401.43,"text":"這有沒有"},{"start":4401.43,"end":4403.43,"text":"所謂的有圖利特定的候選人"},{"start":4405.49,"end":4407.49,"text":"這個有沒有圖利 這是涉及到個案的"},{"start":4407.49,"end":4409.49,"text":"委員我今天沒辦法回答"},{"start":4409.49,"end":4411.49,"text":"委員這個 他是不是有"},{"start":4411.49,"end":4413.49,"text":"構成圖利的可能性"},{"start":4413.49,"end":4415.49,"text":"但是我想就是對一般"},{"start":4415.49,"end":4417.49,"text":"外界看這件事情"},{"start":4417.49,"end":4419.49,"text":"就覺得說就是 基隆分公司"},{"start":4419.49,"end":4421.49,"text":"基隆港務分公司看起來就是雙標"},{"start":4421.49,"end":4423.49,"text":"因為"},{"start":4424.91,"end":4426.91,"text":"這個基隆市市長謝國良他申請"},{"start":4426.91,"end":4428.91,"text":"要辦龍舟比賽"},{"start":4428.91,"end":4430.91,"text":"然後就不准 但是如果說"},{"start":4430.91,"end":4432.91,"text":"是同志委這個議長"},{"start":4432.91,"end":4434.91,"text":"他現在同樣也是"},{"start":4434.91,"end":4436.91,"text":"基隆市市長的參選人 然後申請"},{"start":4436.91,"end":4438.91,"text":"放一個大型的浮球在港口"},{"start":4438.91,"end":4440.91,"text":"這個就准 所以如果說今天"},{"start":4440.91,"end":4442.91,"text":"我們的基隆市市長謝國良 他趕快"},{"start":4442.91,"end":4444.91,"text":"也去申請一個 應有他"},{"start":4444.91,"end":4446.91,"text":"名義的一個大型的浮球"},{"start":4446.91,"end":4448.91,"text":"然後放在基隆港"},{"start":4448.91,"end":4450.91,"text":"那一直到投票前一天"},{"start":4450.91,"end":4452.91,"text":"我不知道說港務公司會不會准"},{"start":4452.91,"end":4454.91,"text":"或許今天這個媒體可以去問他"},{"start":4454.91,"end":4456.91,"text":"是不是他會准許"},{"start":4456.91,"end":4458.91,"text":"同樣的這個情況"},{"start":4458.91,"end":4460.91,"text":"那麼好 那接下來"},{"start":4460.91,"end":4462.91,"text":"我再請教的就是"},{"start":4462.91,"end":4464.91,"text":"這桃園農水署"},{"start":4464.91,"end":4466.91,"text":"所辦理的地方農耕"},{"start":4466.91,"end":4468.91,"text":"供水交流活動"},{"start":4468.91,"end":4470.91,"text":"剛剛其實前面兩位委員也都有問過這個問題"},{"start":4470.91,"end":4472.91,"text":"本來是一個"},{"start":4473.56,"end":4475.56,"text":"一個農耕供水的交流活動"},{"start":4475.56,"end":4477.56,"text":"結果竟然變成了"},{"start":4477.56,"end":4479.56,"text":"動算大會"},{"start":4480.38,"end":4482.38,"text":"桃園市市長的參選人"},{"start":4482.38,"end":4484.38,"text":"竟然穿著競選背心上台"},{"start":4484.38,"end":4486.38,"text":"然後旁邊還有他的父親"},{"start":4486.38,"end":4488.38,"text":"就是農田水利發展基金會的"},{"start":4488.38,"end":4490.38,"text":"黃董事長"},{"start":4490.38,"end":4492.38,"text":"然後農水署的官員"},{"start":4492.38,"end":4494.38,"text":"甚至帶頭喊動算"},{"start":4494.38,"end":4496.38,"text":"我想請教就是農業部的"},{"start":4496.38,"end":4498.38,"text":"黃市長還有"},{"start":4498.38,"end":4500.38,"text":"農水署的署長"},{"start":4500.38,"end":4502.38,"text":"當天帶頭喊動算的官員是誰"},{"start":4503.56,"end":4504.56,"text":"請問"},{"start":4505.56,"end":4507.56,"text":"我們兩位都沒有在現場"},{"start":4507.56,"end":4509.56,"text":"所以事實上我們只是從昨天的"},{"start":4509.56,"end":4511.56,"text":"這個影片這樣子"},{"start":4511.56,"end":4513.56,"text":"來看我們也不知道是誰"},{"start":4513.56,"end":4515.56,"text":"是處長嗎 是農水署的這個相關的"},{"start":4515.56,"end":4517.56,"text":"地方的處長嗎"},{"start":4517.56,"end":4519.56,"text":"在台上有處長 但是是不是他"},{"start":4519.56,"end":4521.56,"text":"帶頭喊這個部分我沒有辦法"},{"start":4521.56,"end":4523.56,"text":"所以這個案子其實是從今年"},{"start":4523.56,"end":4525.56,"text":"應該是8月還是6月的時候發生的"},{"start":4525.56,"end":4527.56,"text":"你們都不知道這個事情嗎 當時新聞"},{"start":4527.56,"end":4529.56,"text":"上面都有報導 你們沒有對於"},{"start":4529.56,"end":4531.56,"text":"這個案子去進行了解"},{"start":4531.56,"end":4533.56,"text":"是誰喊動算 你們到現在不知道"},{"start":4534.65,"end":4536.65,"text":"基本上因為這個活動是"},{"start":4536.65,"end":4538.65,"text":"在8月3號舉行"},{"start":4538.65,"end":4540.65,"text":"那這個部分是我們的節水"},{"start":4540.65,"end":4542.65,"text":"宣導的這樣的一個活動"},{"start":4542.65,"end":4544.65,"text":"事實上這個從不是今年"},{"start":4544.65,"end":4546.65,"text":"第一次舉辦 過去在舉辦"},{"start":4546.65,"end":4548.65,"text":"的這個時候呢 那也都會"},{"start":4548.65,"end":4550.65,"text":"有地方的民意代表跟相關的人士"},{"start":4550.65,"end":4552.65,"text":"來公"},{"start":4552.65,"end":4554.65,"text":"來來來來"},{"start":4554.65,"end":4556.65,"text":"我現在只是要了解到底是哪一位官員"},{"start":4556.65,"end":4558.65,"text":"帶頭喊動算"},{"start":4558.65,"end":4560.65,"text":"我們也是從這個影片上面"},{"start":4560.65,"end":4562.65,"text":"來看那我們現在確認就是"},{"start":4562.65,"end":4564.65,"text":"處長確實是有在台上"},{"start":4564.65,"end":4566.65,"text":"但是到底是誰"},{"start":4566.65,"end":4568.65,"text":"帶頭去喊動算這個部分"},{"start":4568.65,"end":4570.65,"text":"我沒有辦法再 好 所以是不是可以請"},{"start":4570.65,"end":4572.65,"text":"次長還有署長"},{"start":4572.65,"end":4574.65,"text":"給我一份資料 是"},{"start":4574.65,"end":4576.65,"text":"當天的活動的詳細的記錄"},{"start":4576.65,"end":4578.65,"text":"然後是誰帶頭喊動算"},{"start":4578.65,"end":4580.65,"text":"因為我覺得這很重要啊"},{"start":4580.65,"end":4582.65,"text":"這很明顯的是不是有違反了刑政中立法"},{"start":4582.65,"end":4584.65,"text":"我們沒有在現場啊 然後我們因為這個部分"},{"start":4584.65,"end":4586.65,"text":"你們全程沒有錄影嗎"},{"start":4586.65,"end":4588.65,"text":"檢察官也有在"},{"start":4588.65,"end":4590.65,"text":"次長 你講這樣的話太卸責了"},{"start":4590.65,"end":4592.65,"text":"對不對 我們這是事後調查"},{"start":4592.65,"end":4594.65,"text":"你全程都沒有錄影"},{"start":4594.65,"end":4596.65,"text":"然後當地有多少"},{"start":4596.65,"end":4598.65,"text":"我覺得這個案子就應該讓檢調去調查就好"},{"start":4598.65,"end":4600.65,"text":"因為這個案子已經有人檢舉"},{"start":4600.65,"end":4602.65,"text":"那這個也在調查"},{"start":4602.65,"end":4604.65,"text":"檢舉是檢舉 司法調查"},{"start":4604.65,"end":4606.65,"text":"你刑政調查也要做啊"},{"start":4606.65,"end":4608.65,"text":"可見得你們都是包庇嘛"},{"start":4608.65,"end":4610.65,"text":"你們對於自己下面的同仁"},{"start":4610.65,"end":4612.65,"text":"到底做了什麼事情都不曉得"},{"start":4612.65,"end":4614.65,"text":"而且是誰決定說要當時是要發"},{"start":4614.65,"end":4616.65,"text":"這個三百元的這個雞蛋盒"},{"start":4617.12,"end":4619.12,"text":"桃園管理處這個每年的活動"},{"start":4619.12,"end":4621.12,"text":"都是這個都有這樣"},{"start":4621.12,"end":4623.12,"text":"好 那麼如果說每年都有"},{"start":4623.12,"end":4625.12,"text":"那你把每年的發放的這個禮品"},{"start":4625.12,"end":4627.12,"text":"這些資料全部"},{"start":4627.12,"end":4629.12,"text":"給我一份就近五年來"},{"start":4629.12,"end":4631.12,"text":"然後呢 同時本來要了解"},{"start":4631.12,"end":4633.12,"text":"就當天到底有哪些"},{"start":4633.12,"end":4635.12,"text":"官員在場"},{"start":4635.12,"end":4637.12,"text":"然後是誰帶頭喊動算"},{"start":4637.12,"end":4639.12,"text":"我覺得這個議題很重要"},{"start":4639.12,"end":4641.12,"text":"因為這涉及到我們今天講的刑政中立法"},{"start":4641.12,"end":4643.12,"text":"如果說次長"},{"start":4643.12,"end":4645.12,"text":"還有署長 你到現在都對這個案子"},{"start":4645.12,"end":4647.12,"text":"完全不了解"},{"start":4647.85,"end":4649.85,"text":"這會讓大家很懷疑啊"},{"start":4649.85,"end":4651.85,"text":"八月份發生的事情到現在"},{"start":4651.85,"end":4653.85,"text":"已經幾個月了"},{"start":4653.85,"end":4655.85,"text":"因為這個部分沒有涉及到"},{"start":4655.85,"end":4657.85,"text":"你們自己內部都沒有任何的"},{"start":4657.85,"end":4659.85,"text":"剛剛已經有說過了"},{"start":4659.85,"end":4661.85,"text":"那刑政中立法它的這個"},{"start":4661.85,"end":4663.85,"text":"基本上我們違反刑政中立法其實是有"},{"start":4664.21,"end":4666.21,"text":"應該有罰則嘛"},{"start":4666.21,"end":4668.21,"text":"這還不只是涉及到就是司法"},{"start":4668.21,"end":4670.21,"text":"這個有沒有涉及到這個"},{"start":4670.21,"end":4672.21,"text":"圖利的這些相關的問題"},{"start":4672.21,"end":4674.21,"text":"好 那麼接下來我還要再請教的"},{"start":4674.21,"end":4676.21,"text":"就是全序部的"},{"start":4676.21,"end":4678.21,"text":"司部長 在過去三年來"},{"start":4678.21,"end":4680.21,"text":"像這種可能違反"},{"start":4680.21,"end":4682.21,"text":"刑政中立法"},{"start":4682.21,"end":4684.21,"text":"這種非典型的這種准用人員"},{"start":4684.21,"end":4686.21,"text":"過去有多少人"},{"start":4686.21,"end":4688.21,"text":"曾經有違法過 不知道全序部這裡"},{"start":4688.21,"end":4690.21,"text":"有沒有統計"},{"start":4690.21,"end":4692.21,"text":"各位根據法律的架構我們"},{"start":4691.75,"end":4693.75,"text":"不做個案的一個調查"},{"start":4693.75,"end":4695.75,"text":"所以個案調查法都是機關自己去處理"},{"start":4695.75,"end":4697.75,"text":"他們可能進行處分"},{"start":4697.75,"end":4699.75,"text":"那我希望全序部可以利用這次的機會"},{"start":4699.75,"end":4701.75,"text":"去了解各機關"},{"start":4701.75,"end":4703.75,"text":"因為違反刑政程序"},{"start":4703.75,"end":4705.75,"text":"刑政中立法第十七條的"},{"start":4705.75,"end":4707.75,"text":"等等相關的規定"},{"start":4707.75,"end":4709.75,"text":"有多少人曾經有被懲處過"},{"start":4711.46,"end":4713.46,"text":"或是違反刑政中立法"},{"start":4713.46,"end":4715.46,"text":"應該這樣講 我們要去看我們系統"},{"start":4715.46,"end":4717.46,"text":"當我們的公務同仁被懲處"},{"start":4717.46,"end":4719.46,"text":"或者處分的時候 有沒有特定的"},{"start":4719.46,"end":4721.46,"text":"紀錄事由 我先跟委員報告這"},{"start":4721.46,"end":4723.46,"text":"如果有我們就比較好做 如果沒有我們就真的"},{"start":4723.46,"end":4725.46,"text":"目前沒有這個資料"},{"start":4725.46,"end":4727.46,"text":"你可以發文給各個公務機關請他們"},{"start":4727.46,"end":4729.46,"text":"提供資料 過去這些年來"},{"start":4729.46,"end":4731.46,"text":"有沒有曾經違反過"},{"start":4731.46,"end":4733.46,"text":"刑政中立法"},{"start":4733.46,"end":4735.46,"text":"而被懲處的公務人員以及"},{"start":4735.46,"end":4737.46,"text":"准用人員"},{"start":4737.46,"end":4739.46,"text":"因為這個我們可以作為"},{"start":4739.46,"end":4741.46,"text":"需不需要大幅度的修改"},{"start":4741.46,"end":4743.46,"text":"公務人員刑政中立法"},{"start":4743.46,"end":4745.46,"text":"的一個很重要的參考依據"},{"start":4745.46,"end":4747.46,"text":"如果說這部法規定在那裡"},{"start":4747.46,"end":4749.46,"text":"它形同句文"},{"start":4748.93,"end":4750.93,"text":"刑政機關看到了這些相關事情"},{"start":4750.93,"end":4752.93,"text":"從來沒有處罰"},{"start":4752.93,"end":4754.93,"text":"那這個法律規定在那裡有什麼用呢"},{"start":4756.01,"end":4758.01,"text":"然後接下來我還在講"},{"start":4758.01,"end":4760.01,"text":"因為在這一次其實涉及到"},{"start":4760.01,"end":4762.01,"text":"公務人員刑政中立法第九條"},{"start":4762.01,"end":4764.01,"text":"第一項第六款的規定"},{"start":4764.01,"end":4766.01,"text":"公務人員他原則上是不可以公開"},{"start":4766.01,"end":4768.01,"text":"為公職候選人站台助獎"},{"start":4768.01,"end":4770.01,"text":"遊行敗票 但是有一個"},{"start":4770.01,"end":4772.01,"text":"但說的規定 如果是他的配偶及"},{"start":4772.01,"end":4774.01,"text":"二親等以內的血親 嬰親是不在此限"},{"start":4774.01,"end":4776.01,"text":"因此在這次"},{"start":4776.01,"end":4778.01,"text":"黃氏"},{"start":4778.01,"end":4780.01,"text":"他的父親"},{"start":4780.01,"end":4782.01,"text":"幫他站台這個部分"},{"start":4782.01,"end":4784.01,"text":"或許有可能"},{"start":4784.21,"end":4786.21,"text":"勉強來講或許是有符合"},{"start":4786.21,"end":4788.21,"text":"公務人員刑政中立法第九條"},{"start":4788.21,"end":4790.21,"text":"第一項第六款的規定 但是呢"},{"start":4790.21,"end":4792.21,"text":"問題就是說是這個規定"},{"start":4792.33,"end":4794.33,"text":"基本上會讓外界"},{"start":4794.33,"end":4796.33,"text":"認為說有這個"},{"start":4796.33,"end":4798.33,"text":"瓜田裡下之嫌 那麼當初"},{"start":4798.33,"end":4800.33,"text":"之所以有"},{"start":4801.51,"end":4803.51,"text":"有類似這個規定可能"},{"start":4803.51,"end":4805.51,"text":"會考慮到說這是不是人情之長"},{"start":4805.51,"end":4807.51,"text":"因為畢竟如果說自己家裡面的"},{"start":4807.51,"end":4809.51,"text":"很親近的親人"},{"start":4809.51,"end":4811.51,"text":"然後出來參選"},{"start":4811.51,"end":4813.51,"text":"那家屬是不是可以也幫忙去助選站台"},{"start":4813.51,"end":4815.51,"text":"但是我想現在也看到了一個"},{"start":4815.51,"end":4817.51,"text":"很嚴重的一個漏洞"},{"start":4817.51,"end":4819.51,"text":"就是如果說當這個親屬他本身"},{"start":4819.51,"end":4821.51,"text":"是高官"},{"start":4821.47,"end":4823.47,"text":"是董事長"},{"start":4823.47,"end":4825.47,"text":"那他站在台上的那個意義"},{"start":4825.47,"end":4827.47,"text":"就不同了"},{"start":4828.18,"end":4830.18,"text":"因為他就是一定會產生一個"},{"start":4830.18,"end":4832.18,"text":"實質的影響力"},{"start":4831.88,"end":4833.88,"text":"所以我覺得這也是趁這一次的機會"},{"start":4833.88,"end":4835.88,"text":"或許可以去檢討公務人員"},{"start":4835.88,"end":4837.88,"text":"行政中立法第九條第一項第六款的"},{"start":4837.88,"end":4839.88,"text":"但書"},{"start":4839.88,"end":4841.88,"text":"未來如果說可以准許"},{"start":4841.88,"end":4843.88,"text":"配偶級二星等以內的雪清殷親"},{"start":4843.88,"end":4845.88,"text":"去幫忙去助選站台"},{"start":4845.88,"end":4847.88,"text":"是不是要有一些條件的限制"},{"start":4847.88,"end":4849.88,"text":"譬如說在地獄的限制"},{"start":4849.88,"end":4851.88,"text":"或者是職等的限制"},{"start":4851.88,"end":4853.88,"text":"如果說這麼大的大官"},{"start":4853.88,"end":4855.88,"text":"然後都站在他的兒子的旁邊"},{"start":4855.88,"end":4857.88,"text":"這個去幫忙助選"},{"start":4858.39,"end":4860.39,"text":"這一定是有"},{"start":4860.39,"end":4862.39,"text":"就是有這個特定圖例的"},{"start":4862.39,"end":4864.39,"text":"情況違反行政中立"},{"start":4864.39,"end":4866.39,"text":"所以本席希望說全區"},{"start":4866.39,"end":4868.39,"text":"不可以針對這個議題來進行檢討"},{"start":4868.39,"end":4870.39,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":4870.39,"end":4872.39,"text":"我們來看看這個議題啦"},{"start":4872.39,"end":4874.39,"text":"因為這當初本來就沒有這個但書"},{"start":4874.39,"end":4876.39,"text":"後來就像委員講人情義理各自"},{"start":4876.39,"end":4878.39,"text":"所以就加了這個但書"},{"start":4878.39,"end":4880.39,"text":"但書是不是夠細緻"},{"start":4880.39,"end":4882.39,"text":"這個我們再來瞭解狀況"},{"start":4882.39,"end":4884.39,"text":"看事實需要的時候我們再來"},{"start":4884.39,"end":4886.39,"text":"討論這個問題"},{"start":4886.39,"end":4888.39,"text":"第九條的最後一"},{"start":4888.87,"end":4890.87,"text":"我印象中有一個"},{"start":4890.87,"end":4892.87,"text":"最後一項也有提到說"},{"start":4892.87,"end":4894.87,"text":"可能還是有一些相關的"},{"start":4894.87,"end":4896.87,"text":"條件限制"},{"start":4896.87,"end":4898.87,"text":"只是那個條件"},{"start":4898.87,"end":4900.87,"text":"要怎麼操作的話"},{"start":4900.87,"end":4902.87,"text":"所以本席希望說全區不在裡可以去研擬"},{"start":4902.87,"end":4904.87,"text":"就是說看是不是要把"},{"start":4904.87,"end":4906.87,"text":"未來這個條件"},{"start":4906.87,"end":4908.87,"text":"變得更清楚"},{"start":4908.87,"end":4910.87,"text":"不管從區域上面地獄上面"},{"start":4910.87,"end":4912.87,"text":"從職等上面可以把這個法規定得很清楚"},{"start":4912.87,"end":4914.87,"text":"到最後我想再問"},{"start":4914.87,"end":4916.87,"text":"很簡短的一題就是說"},{"start":4916.87,"end":4918.87,"text":"有關公務人員行政中立法的問題"},{"start":4918.87,"end":4920.87,"text":"希望公務人員"},{"start":4920.87,"end":4922.87,"text":"特別在選舉期間都能保持行政中立"},{"start":4922.87,"end":4924.87,"text":"但是事實上"},{"start":4924.87,"end":4926.87,"text":"最大的問題往往不是出現在"},{"start":4926.87,"end":4928.87,"text":"公務人員"},{"start":4928.87,"end":4930.87,"text":"而是在政務官"},{"start":4930.36,"end":4932.36,"text":"這也是我們在私委會這裡"},{"start":4932.36,"end":4934.36,"text":"其實已經有好幾個委員"},{"start":4934.36,"end":4936.36,"text":"都分別提出來有關於政務人員"},{"start":4936.36,"end":4938.36,"text":"行為法"},{"start":4938.36,"end":4940.36,"text":"或是政務人員法的這個"},{"start":4940.36,"end":4942.36,"text":"專法裡面都有要求"},{"start":4942.36,"end":4944.36,"text":"政務人員要行政中立"},{"start":4944.36,"end":4946.36,"text":"但是全區部就這個部分好像一直很抗拒"},{"start":4946.36,"end":4948.36,"text":"不願意去規範"},{"start":4948.36,"end":4950.36,"text":"或是去提案有關於政務人員法"},{"start":4952.23,"end":4954.23,"text":"所以是不是在這個全區部"},{"start":4954.23,"end":4956.23,"text":"或什麼法部等等的"},{"start":4956.23,"end":4958.23,"text":"這個基本上認為說反正"},{"start":4958.23,"end":4960.23,"text":"我們只是管小官"},{"start":4960.23,"end":4962.23,"text":"而不管大官"},{"start":4962.23,"end":4964.23,"text":"然後越是這個政務人員"},{"start":4963.99,"end":4965.99,"text":"行政院院長"},{"start":4965.99,"end":4967.99,"text":"還有之前在大罷免的時候主計長"},{"start":4967.99,"end":4969.99,"text":"陳淑姿不是也帶頭"},{"start":4969.99,"end":4971.99,"text":"去參加造勢活動"},{"start":4971.99,"end":4973.99,"text":"然後前一陣子政醫藥部長"},{"start":4973.99,"end":4975.99,"text":"不來立法院質詢"},{"start":4975.99,"end":4977.99,"text":"然後跑到地方上去幫"},{"start":4977.99,"end":4979.99,"text":"這個特定的立委候選人"},{"start":4979.99,"end":4981.99,"text":"市長候選人"},{"start":4981.99,"end":4983.99,"text":"去陪同"},{"start":4983.99,"end":4985.99,"text":"一起去考察"},{"start":4986.3,"end":4988.3,"text":"類似這種問題"},{"start":4988.3,"end":4990.3,"text":"層出不窮可是我們卻"},{"start":4990.3,"end":4992.3,"text":"一直沒有看到"},{"start":4992.3,"end":4994.3,"text":"考試院這邊提出來的政務人員"},{"start":4995.5,"end":4997.5,"text":"法的這個提案"},{"start":4998.03,"end":5000.03,"text":"我想這個事情委員"},{"start":5000.03,"end":5002.03,"text":"我有跟你們報告過"},{"start":5002.03,"end":5004.03,"text":"我們尊重立法院是不是"},{"start":5004.03,"end":5006.03,"text":"也要訂政務人員法這個機制"},{"start":5006.03,"end":5008.03,"text":"我們沒有反而但是"},{"start":5008.03,"end":5010.03,"text":"政務人員根據憲法規定的"},{"start":5010.03,"end":5012.03,"text":"考試院的職長"},{"start":5012.03,"end":5014.03,"text":"考試院職長是對公務人員"},{"start":5014.03,"end":5016.03,"text":"所以如果需要訂這個法"},{"start":5016.03,"end":5018.03,"text":"他根據憲法的概念就應該"},{"start":5018.03,"end":5020.03,"text":"這樣好了我現在只要部長你一個回答"},{"start":5020.03,"end":5022.03,"text":"一個回應你認不認為"},{"start":5022.03,"end":5024.03,"text":"應該要規範政務人員行政中立"},{"start":5024.41,"end":5026.41,"text":"行政中立這個字眼"},{"start":5026.41,"end":5028.41,"text":"有很多很多不同的定義"},{"start":5028.41,"end":5030.41,"text":"譬如像說你不可以"},{"start":5030.41,"end":5032.41,"text":"指示同仁去違法這本來是"},{"start":5032.41,"end":5034.41,"text":"行政中立裡面我們"},{"start":5034.41,"end":5036.41,"text":"現行很多設計要參與政治活動"},{"start":5036.41,"end":5038.41,"text":"所以這就兩個不一樣的規範的方式"},{"start":5038.41,"end":5040.41,"text":"你聽聽講說剛剛講的那個"},{"start":5040.41,"end":5042.41,"text":"政務人員不可以去指揮他下面的公務人員"},{"start":5042.41,"end":5044.41,"text":"去從事違法的政治活動"},{"start":5044.41,"end":5046.41,"text":"可是在我們現在的"},{"start":5046.41,"end":5048.41,"text":"行政中立法裡面也沒有針對這個長官"},{"start":5048.41,"end":5050.41,"text":"有進行處罰"},{"start":5050.41,"end":5052.41,"text":"這本來是我們要去指揮"},{"start":5052.41,"end":5054.41,"text":"這本來是我想問的問題"},{"start":5054.41,"end":5056.41,"text":"因為時間的關係"},{"start":5056.41,"end":5058.41,"text":"總之我認為說其實"},{"start":5058.41,"end":5060.41,"text":"政務人員的行政中立"},{"start":5061.67,"end":5063.67,"text":"的相關的規範應該要給他法制化"},{"start":5063.67,"end":5065.67,"text":"我們目前是"},{"start":5065.67,"end":5067.67,"text":"完全複製缺乳對於"},{"start":5067.67,"end":5069.67,"text":"政務人員的行為"},{"start":5069.67,"end":5071.67,"text":"沒有任何一個具體的"},{"start":5071.67,"end":5073.67,"text":"明確的規範"},{"start":5073.67,"end":5075.67,"text":"所以讓大家認為說這只是"},{"start":5075.67,"end":5077.67,"text":"打小蒼蠅啊真正那個老虎"},{"start":5077.67,"end":5079.67,"text":"都管不了"},{"start":5079.52,"end":5081.52,"text":"沒有什麼太大的意義"},{"start":5081.52,"end":5083.52,"text":"那我也希望就是在這個會期"},{"start":5083.52,"end":5085.52,"text":"有可能的話希望我們的召委"},{"start":5085.52,"end":5087.52,"text":"也能夠繼續的加速"},{"start":5087.52,"end":5089.52,"text":"我們來推動有關於政務人員"},{"start":5089.52,"end":5091.52,"text":"行為法或政務人員專法的"},{"start":5091.52,"end":5093.52,"text":"這樣的一個法制化的進度"},{"start":5093.52,"end":5095.52,"text":"好以上謝謝"},{"start":5096.07,"end":5098.07,"text":"好謝謝公委員"},{"start":5098.07,"end":5100.07,"text":"謝謝各位首長"},{"start":5100.07,"end":5102.07,"text":"下一個我們要請楊丞英委員進行詢答"},{"start":5109.46,"end":5111.46,"text":"主席好楊丞英發言要請法務部"},{"start":5112.53,"end":5114.53,"text":"法務部次長"},{"start":5118.33,"end":5120.33,"text":"委員好"},{"start":5120.33,"end":5122.33,"text":"次長好我們來討論"},{"start":5122.33,"end":5124.33,"text":"我們法務體系"},{"start":5124.33,"end":5126.33,"text":"那接連的"},{"start":5126.33,"end":5128.33,"text":"聯環報的這個"},{"start":5128.33,"end":5130.33,"text":"微詩包括了選舉"},{"start":5130.33,"end":5132.33,"text":"查會30元的標準"},{"start":5132.33,"end":5134.33,"text":"引發了整個"},{"start":5134.33,"end":5136.33,"text":"執法尺度的一個爭議"},{"start":5136.33,"end":5138.33,"text":"民眾的不安參選"},{"start":5138.33,"end":5140.33,"text":"人的也是不安"},{"start":5140.33,"end":5142.33,"text":"到底他們要怎麼做"},{"start":5142.33,"end":5144.33,"text":"那接下來呢"},{"start":5144.33,"end":5146.33,"text":"在調查局人員呢設到了"},{"start":5146.33,"end":5148.33,"text":"一個涉及了海軍光電幣案"},{"start":5150.18,"end":5152.18,"text":"並遭控"},{"start":5151.96,"end":5153.96,"text":"他是收賄通風報信"},{"start":5155.02,"end":5157.02,"text":"那接下來又有台北地檢署的"},{"start":5157.02,"end":5159.02,"text":"檢察官涉毒"},{"start":5159.42,"end":5161.42,"text":"那檢察官跟調查局人員"},{"start":5161.42,"end":5163.42,"text":"他申附了非常重要的責任"},{"start":5163.42,"end":5165.42,"text":"也就是偵查"},{"start":5165.42,"end":5167.42,"text":"犯罪維護司法公正"},{"start":5167.42,"end":5169.42,"text":"的一個這個重責"},{"start":5169.42,"end":5171.42,"text":"但是接連的"},{"start":5171.42,"end":5173.42,"text":"發生了這樣子"},{"start":5173.42,"end":5175.42,"text":"自身涉及不法"},{"start":5175.42,"end":5177.42,"text":"的這個事件那難免會"},{"start":5177.42,"end":5179.42,"text":"引發社會大眾對於"},{"start":5179.42,"end":5181.42,"text":"我們整個內部的管理"},{"start":5181.42,"end":5183.42,"text":"跟監督機制的一個"},{"start":5183.42,"end":5185.42,"text":"質疑"},{"start":5184.33,"end":5186.33,"text":"那另外我們又看到"},{"start":5186.33,"end":5188.33,"text":"選舉查會他攸關了"},{"start":5188.33,"end":5190.33,"text":"整個選舉的公平性"},{"start":5190.33,"end":5192.33,"text":"那所以如果查會的標準"},{"start":5192.33,"end":5194.33,"text":"適用界限他不清楚"},{"start":5194.33,"end":5196.33,"text":"不明確那更容易"},{"start":5196.33,"end":5198.33,"text":"讓民眾質疑"},{"start":5198.33,"end":5200.33,"text":"執法是否他是"},{"start":5200.33,"end":5202.33,"text":"一致的所以法務部"},{"start":5202.33,"end":5204.33,"text":"你應該要提出具體"},{"start":5204.33,"end":5206.33,"text":"的制度檢查跟"},{"start":5206.33,"end":5208.33,"text":"改善的措施"},{"start":5208.33,"end":5210.33,"text":"所以在這邊請教次長"},{"start":5210.33,"end":5212.33,"text":"法務部你要如何的去檢討"},{"start":5212.33,"end":5214.33,"text":"你所屬的機關單位他的"},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Lu"},{"start":5548.07,"end":5550.07,"text":"還是我們內部人員外洩"},{"start":5551.86,"end":5553.86,"text":"請教"},{"start":5581.86,"end":5583.86,"text":"連那個連絡人家人"},{"start":5587.64,"end":5589.64,"text":"的資訊都出去這個太恐怖了"},{"start":5591.84,"end":5593.84,"text":"所以本教說大量的"},{"start":5593.84,"end":5595.84,"text":"受刑人以及家屬的個資"},{"start":5595.84,"end":5597.84,"text":"他害出去之後"},{"start":5598.59,"end":5600.59,"text":"他"},{"start":5599.55,"end":5601.55,"text":"被有心人取得"},{"start":5601.55,"end":5603.55,"text":"那他不僅可以是詐騙"},{"start":5603.55,"end":5605.55,"text":"勒索還有人身安全的問題"},{"start":5605.55,"end":5607.55,"text":"各位爸爸"},{"start":5607.55,"end":5609.55,"text":"這個影響太大了到底"},{"start":5609.55,"end":5611.55,"text":"我們的監控"},{"start":5611.57,"end":5613.57,"text":"你潛在的漏洞到底在哪裡"},{"start":5614.35,"end":5616.35,"text":"你們應該要徹底去查清楚"},{"start":5616.35,"end":5618.35,"text":"證實到這個兩千筆的資訊"},{"start":5618.35,"end":5620.35,"text":"確實是我們的"},{"start":5620.35,"end":5622.35,"text":"真的社會化"},{"start":5622.35,"end":5624.35,"text":"那個案網上所兜售的"},{"start":5624.35,"end":5626.35,"text":"並不是全部受刑的資料"},{"start":5626.35,"end":5628.35,"text":"那是7月跟8月新收案件"},{"start":5628.35,"end":5630.35,"text":"局部的一個"},{"start":5630.35,"end":5632.35,"text":"個人資料並不是全面性的"},{"start":5632.35,"end":5634.35,"text":"資料的被外洩並不是這樣"},{"start":5635.39,"end":5637.39,"text":"市長你這樣回答我完全沒有辦法接受"},{"start":5637.39,"end":5639.39,"text":"你明明就有"},{"start":5639.39,"end":5641.39,"text":"你來解釋一個不是全部"},{"start":5642.8,"end":5644.8,"text":"這不行啦"},{"start":5644.8,"end":5646.8,"text":"這當然當然"},{"start":5646.8,"end":5648.8,"text":"我只是要跟委員說明而已"},{"start":5648.8,"end":5650.8,"text":"所以市長"},{"start":5650.94,"end":5652.94,"text":"這個你必須要去查明"},{"start":5653.4,"end":5655.4,"text":"到底是內部外洩"},{"start":5655.4,"end":5657.4,"text":"還是外部害怒"},{"start":5657.4,"end":5659.4,"text":"那到底你外洩的源頭是什麼"},{"start":5659.4,"end":5663.4,"text":"你以後的改善措施是什麼"},{"start":5663.4,"end":5665.4,"text":"你要確保受刑人"},{"start":5665.72,"end":5667.72,"text":"還是新收人"},{"start":5667.72,"end":5669.72,"text":"以及他家屬個資"},{"start":5669.72,"end":5671.72,"text":"不再暴露在風險之中"},{"start":5672.97,"end":5674.97,"text":"是不是啊"},{"start":5674.97,"end":5676.97,"text":"盡快查明"},{"start":5676.97,"end":5678.97,"text":"防堵"},{"start":5678.97,"end":5680.97,"text":"最後一個議題我要跟你討論喔"},{"start":5680.97,"end":5682.97,"text":"全國的監所收刑人現在6萬6千人"},{"start":5683.67,"end":5685.67,"text":"6萬6千"},{"start":5685.38,"end":5687.38,"text":"2022年到現在"},{"start":5687.38,"end":5689.38,"text":"暴增了1萬人"},{"start":5689.09,"end":5691.09,"text":"那你的基層借戶幣"},{"start":5692.58,"end":5694.58,"text":"這麼惡化我一再講一再講"},{"start":5694.58,"end":5696.58,"text":"叫你們去清查"},{"start":5697.36,"end":5701.36,"text":"我們的標準希望是1比這個6"},{"start":5701.36,"end":5703.36,"text":"那你現在是多少"},{"start":5703.36,"end":5705.36,"text":"1比11.79"},{"start":5705.36,"end":5707.36,"text":"對1比10是10億左右"},{"start":5707.36,"end":5709.36,"text":"那怎麼辦"},{"start":5709.36,"end":5711.36,"text":"好個人報告"},{"start":5711.36,"end":5713.36,"text":"那現在超收大概3000多人左右"},{"start":5713.36,"end":5715.36,"text":"那我們部裡面有各式的前門政策"},{"start":5715.36,"end":5717.36,"text":"跟後門政策希望能夠"},{"start":5717.36,"end":5719.36,"text":"減少這個超收的比例"},{"start":5719.36,"end":5721.36,"text":"請問法務部"},{"start":5721.36,"end":5723.36,"text":"說僑政署說配合法務部"},{"start":5723.36,"end":5725.36,"text":"只是重塑審查"},{"start":5725.36,"end":5727.36,"text":"法甲是以減少在監人數"},{"start":5728.7,"end":5730.7,"text":"報告委員這個是後門政策"},{"start":5730.7,"end":5732.7,"text":"後門政策"},{"start":5732.7,"end":5734.7,"text":"我們讓人少進去"},{"start":5734.18,"end":5736.18,"text":"委員講的是進去後門政策"},{"start":5736.18,"end":5738.18,"text":"怎麼讓他出來"},{"start":5738.18,"end":5740.18,"text":"你講的坑腔有力本需要說"},{"start":5741.22,"end":5743.22,"text":"監所所受及的"},{"start":5743.22,"end":5745.22,"text":"是他收容所的空間不夠"},{"start":5745.22,"end":5747.22,"text":"如果以人數特別本行"},{"start":5747.22,"end":5749.22,"text":"一直要求的"},{"start":5749.22,"end":5751.22,"text":"介護人力的短缺的問題"},{"start":5751.22,"end":5753.22,"text":"還有整體性社會面"},{"start":5753.22,"end":5755.22,"text":"刑事政策的問題"},{"start":5754.73,"end":5756.73,"text":"這三方面"},{"start":5756.73,"end":5758.73,"text":"會涉及到你現在1比11.79"},{"start":5758.73,"end":5760.73,"text":"了解"},{"start":5760.84,"end":5762.84,"text":"同時你的受刑人增加那麼多"},{"start":5764.23,"end":5766.23,"text":"那你給我講一個前門"},{"start":5766.23,"end":5768.23,"text":"還有一個後門"},{"start":5768.23,"end":5770.23,"text":"本行說你們奉法務部"},{"start":5770.23,"end":5772.23,"text":"的一個指示"},{"start":5772.23,"end":5774.23,"text":"僑政署表示"},{"start":5774.23,"end":5776.23,"text":"奉法務部你們的指示"},{"start":5776.23,"end":5778.23,"text":"要加速重塑的"},{"start":5778.23,"end":5780.23,"text":"這個審查假釋"},{"start":5780.23,"end":5782.23,"text":"如果你只有用"},{"start":5782.23,"end":5784.23,"text":"這個步驟"},{"start":5784.15,"end":5786.15,"text":"啊"},{"start":5785.16,"end":5787.16,"text":"來紓解壓力的手段"},{"start":5788.74,"end":5790.74,"text":"那我要請問你喔"},{"start":5790.74,"end":5792.74,"text":"獨家"},{"start":5791.81,"end":5793.81,"text":"詐欺犯"},{"start":5793.12,"end":5795.12,"text":"獨家會影響到我們用戶人的安全"},{"start":5795.12,"end":5797.12,"text":"詐欺犯會影響到我們財產的安全"},{"start":5801.28,"end":5803.28,"text":"這就怎麼辦"},{"start":5831.28,"end":5833.28,"text":"有他的機制在嗎"},{"start":5833.28,"end":5835.28,"text":"那結論就是說"},{"start":5835.28,"end":5837.28,"text":"你們必須"},{"start":5837.28,"end":5839.28,"text":"像本席剛才提出的"},{"start":5839.28,"end":5841.28,"text":"獨家"},{"start":5840.29,"end":5842.29,"text":"詐騙"},{"start":5842.1,"end":5844.1,"text":"這一些你應該要建立研訪"},{"start":5844.1,"end":5846.1,"text":"他們"},{"start":5846.1,"end":5848.1,"text":"再犯的風險評估跟追蹤機制"},{"start":5849.42,"end":5851.42,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":5851.42,"end":5853.42,"text":"現在每一個受刑人進到我們監所"},{"start":5853.42,"end":5855.42,"text":"尤其詐欺案件我們都有個案的處理"},{"start":5855.42,"end":5857.42,"text":"相關的措施來避免他再犯"},{"start":5857.42,"end":5859.42,"text":"這個監所都有在做"},{"start":5859.42,"end":5861.42,"text":"這點絕對如同剛剛委員所提的"},{"start":5861.42,"end":5863.42,"text":"我們監所已經確實在做"},{"start":5864.12,"end":5866.12,"text":"從1比6"},{"start":5866.12,"end":5868.12,"text":"到1比8"},{"start":5868.12,"end":5870.12,"text":"到現在1比11.79"},{"start":5870.12,"end":5872.12,"text":"人力明確不足"},{"start":5872.12,"end":5874.12,"text":"上一次本席的要求"},{"start":5874.12,"end":5876.12,"text":"你們去盤點"},{"start":5876.12,"end":5878.12,"text":"應該要怎麼樣增加人數"},{"start":5879.04,"end":5881.04,"text":"要怎麼樣去調整"},{"start":5881.04,"end":5883.04,"text":"到現在有調整出來嗎"},{"start":5883.04,"end":5885.04,"text":"你們預計要怎麼做"},{"start":5885.04,"end":5887.04,"text":"這個人力的部分我們隨時都向"},{"start":5887.04,"end":5889.04,"text":"這個我們行政院來爭取"},{"start":5889.04,"end":5891.04,"text":"其實不只委員主席"},{"start":5891.04,"end":5893.04,"text":"也都非常在意這一塊"},{"start":5893.04,"end":5895.04,"text":"他在意有沒有跟你增加人數"},{"start":5895.04,"end":5897.04,"text":"有 各位報告"},{"start":5897.04,"end":5899.04,"text":"這次像彰化看守所"},{"start":5899.04,"end":5901.04,"text":"他就合給我們188"},{"start":5901.04,"end":5903.04,"text":"188個新的增加的人力"},{"start":5903.04,"end":5905.04,"text":"其實他是逐步給我們新的人力"},{"start":5905.04,"end":5907.04,"text":"逐步"},{"start":5907.04,"end":5909.04,"text":"這是報告"},{"start":5908.53,"end":5910.53,"text":"所以你給我的數字結果論"},{"start":5910.53,"end":5912.53,"text":"就是1比6 1比8"},{"start":5912.53,"end":5914.53,"text":"1比11.79"},{"start":5914.53,"end":5916.53,"text":"所以你要審慎"},{"start":5916.53,"end":5918.53,"text":"我相信你們提出來"},{"start":5918.53,"end":5920.53,"text":"要一個整體的規劃"},{"start":5920.77,"end":5922.77,"text":"行政院他敢不支持嗎"},{"start":5922.77,"end":5924.77,"text":"這是對於人身的安全"},{"start":5927.58,"end":5929.58,"text":"你們去提出好不好"},{"start":5929.58,"end":5931.58,"text":"我們這其實一直都在關注這一塊"},{"start":5931.58,"end":5933.58,"text":"你一直在關注"},{"start":5933.58,"end":5935.58,"text":"你要給我們答案啊"},{"start":5935.58,"end":5937.58,"text":"你的結果是往上升啊"},{"start":5937.58,"end":5939.58,"text":"比例是往上升啊"},{"start":5939.58,"end":5941.58,"text":"你對這些監護人員要怎麼辦啊"},{"start":5941.58,"end":5943.58,"text":"除了人力的爭取之外"},{"start":5943.58,"end":5945.58,"text":"剛剛委員所提到的前門跟後門"},{"start":5945.58,"end":5947.58,"text":"都是疏解尖索壓"},{"start":5947.58,"end":5949.58,"text":"真的人力的部分本行具體建立"},{"start":5949.58,"end":5951.58,"text":"你必須要立即趕快去做調整"},{"start":5951.58,"end":5953.58,"text":"因為你明明白白人不夠"},{"start":5953.58,"end":5955.58,"text":"你出事的問題會更多"},{"start":5955.58,"end":5957.58,"text":"所以我善意的給你提醒"},{"start":5957.58,"end":5959.58,"text":"務必要去精進"},{"start":5959.58,"end":5961.58,"text":"謝謝謝謝"},{"start":5961.58,"end":5963.58,"text":"今天我們透過科技的方法"},{"start":5963.58,"end":5965.58,"text":"也可以獲得一些疏解啦"},{"start":5965.58,"end":5967.58,"text":"都是靠人力去做監控"},{"start":5967.58,"end":5969.58,"text":"科技的科技智慧型的"},{"start":5969.58,"end":5971.58,"text":"市長你如果要再說我就跟你說"},{"start":5970.72,"end":5972.72,"text":"你已經結果論是1比6"},{"start":5972.72,"end":5974.72,"text":"1比8 1比11.79"},{"start":5976.18,"end":5978.18,"text":"你還透過科技你透過科技"},{"start":5978.18,"end":5980.18,"text":"你給我這個答案"},{"start":5980.18,"end":5982.18,"text":"那你表示科技無效"},{"start":5982.18,"end":5984.18,"text":"不是它是相輔相成啦"},{"start":5984.18,"end":5986.18,"text":"它不衝突啦"},{"start":5986.18,"end":5988.18,"text":"市長你要去思考"},{"start":5987.31,"end":5989.31,"text":"你的結果是負面的成長"},{"start":5989.31,"end":5993.31,"text":"你就很誠實的去面對這個問題"},{"start":5993.31,"end":5995.31,"text":"而不是說頭無歸啦"},{"start":5995.31,"end":5997.31,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":5997.31,"end":5999.31,"text":"那解決問題才是正道嘛"},{"start":5999.31,"end":6001.31,"text":"是不是"},{"start":6001.31,"end":6003.31,"text":"謝謝市長"},{"start":6005.67,"end":6007.67,"text":"哈哈哈哈"},{"start":6008.23,"end":6010.23,"text":"簡單的說就是治安能力敗壞嘛"},{"start":6010.23,"end":6012.23,"text":"這個介護比喔"},{"start":6012.23,"end":6014.23,"text":"日本是1比2啊"},{"start":6014.23,"end":6016.23,"text":"韓國是1比3啊"},{"start":6016.23,"end":6017.23,"text":"美國是1比4.5"},{"start":6017.23,"end":6019.23,"text":"台灣是1比12啊"},{"start":6020.08,"end":6022.08,"text":"我都會背了你們還在等等等等"},{"start":6022.93,"end":6024.93,"text":"好"},{"start":6024.93,"end":6026.93,"text":"那我現在先做會議程序的宣告"},{"start":6026.93,"end":6028.93,"text":"就是說在林沛翔委員"},{"start":6028.93,"end":6030.93,"text":"詢答完畢之後我們先休息5分鐘"},{"start":6030.93,"end":6032.93,"text":"好現在請林沛翔委員進行詢答"},{"start":6037.07,"end":6039.07,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":6039.07,"end":6041.07,"text":"有請市長"},{"start":6040.7,"end":6042.7,"text":"哪一位市長"},{"start":6042.7,"end":6044.7,"text":"黃市長"},{"start":6044.7,"end":6046.7,"text":"黃某新市長"},{"start":6046.7,"end":6048.7,"text":"你們先喝個水沒關係"},{"start":6048.7,"end":6050.7,"text":"剛剛蠻辛苦的喝個水沒關係"},{"start":6050.7,"end":6052.7,"text":"好委員好"},{"start":6053.44,"end":6055.44,"text":"好市長"},{"start":6055.44,"end":6057.44,"text":"今天本席要談的是民主政治裡面"},{"start":6057.44,"end":6059.44,"text":"最基本也是人民最在乎的兩件事"},{"start":6059.44,"end":6061.44,"text":"第一行政中立"},{"start":6061.44,"end":6063.44,"text":"第二司法公平"},{"start":6065.28,"end":6067.28,"text":"市長"},{"start":6066.47,"end":6068.47,"text":"選舉可以有輸贏"},{"start":6068.47,"end":6070.47,"text":"政治可以有立場"},{"start":6070.47,"end":6072.47,"text":"但是政府不能有顏色"},{"start":6072.47,"end":6074.47,"text":"司法更不能有偏心"},{"start":6074.47,"end":6076.47,"text":"畢竟來說選舉"},{"start":6076.47,"end":6078.47,"text":"是人民在選國家的主人"},{"start":6078.47,"end":6080.47,"text":"而不是政府在挑國家的主人"},{"start":6080.47,"end":6082.47,"text":"如果今天"},{"start":6082.47,"end":6084.47,"text":"政府的資源會因為"},{"start":6084.47,"end":6086.47,"text":"政治關係而有所不同"},{"start":6086.47,"end":6088.47,"text":"司法的標準"},{"start":6088.47,"end":6090.47,"text":"可以因為候選人的顏色"},{"start":6090.47,"end":6092.47,"text":"而有所改變"},{"start":6092.47,"end":6094.47,"text":"那我們要談什麼民主"},{"start":6094.47,"end":6096.47,"text":"談什麼公平"},{"start":6096.05,"end":6098.05,"text":"市長"},{"start":6098.05,"end":6100.05,"text":"今天本席質詢不是要替誰定罪"},{"start":6100.05,"end":6102.05,"text":"而是要請教您"},{"start":6102.05,"end":6104.05,"text":"現在政府到底有沒有一把公平的尺"},{"start":6104.05,"end":6106.05,"text":"不能說"},{"start":6106.05,"end":6108.05,"text":"量到藍色就變成鐵齒"},{"start":6108.05,"end":6110.05,"text":"量到綠色就變成橡皮筋"},{"start":6112.25,"end":6114.25,"text":"這不是所謂的依法行政"},{"start":6114.25,"end":6116.25,"text":"這叫雙重標準"},{"start":6117.61,"end":6121.61,"text":"先講到說本席是基隆的選區立委"},{"start":6121.61,"end":6123.61,"text":"最近基隆發生了一件事情"},{"start":6123.61,"end":6125.61,"text":"根據媒體報導"},{"start":6125.61,"end":6127.61,"text":"基隆民防大隊長在民防相關參會上"},{"start":6127.61,"end":6129.61,"text":"公開拜託大家"},{"start":6129.61,"end":6131.61,"text":"支持自己的兒子童子偉"},{"start":6131.61,"end":6133.61,"text":"童子偉競選辦公室說"},{"start":6133.61,"end":6135.61,"text":"這只是父親在"},{"start":6135.61,"end":6137.61,"text":"替兒子加油"},{"start":6138.17,"end":6140.17,"text":"部長本席可以完全理解"},{"start":6140.17,"end":6142.17,"text":"天下父母心"},{"start":6142.17,"end":6144.17,"text":"哪個爸爸不忘子承龍"},{"start":6144.17,"end":6146.17,"text":"不忘女承鳳"},{"start":6146.57,"end":6148.57,"text":"父親疼兒子天親地義"},{"start":6148.57,"end":6150.57,"text":"但是"},{"start":6150.15,"end":6152.15,"text":"父愛可以無限大"},{"start":6152.15,"end":6154.15,"text":"公權力卻萬萬不可"},{"start":6154.15,"end":6156.15,"text":"無限上崗"},{"start":6156.15,"end":6158.15,"text":"今天問題不是爸爸能不能"},{"start":6158.15,"end":6160.15,"text":"替兒子加油"},{"start":6160.15,"end":6162.15,"text":"而是這位爸爸同時具有民防大隊長的身份"},{"start":6162.15,"end":6164.15,"text":"如果是在民防正式參會上"},{"start":6164.15,"end":6166.15,"text":"利用組織關係"},{"start":6166.15,"end":6168.15,"text":"利用職務影響力"},{"start":6168.15,"end":6170.15,"text":"甚至公共資源"},{"start":6170.15,"end":6172.15,"text":"替特定候選人拉票"},{"start":6172.15,"end":6174.15,"text":"難道一句天下父母心"},{"start":6174.15,"end":6176.15,"text":"他只是個爸爸"},{"start":6176.15,"end":6178.15,"text":"就可以把所有疑慮一筆勾銷嗎"},{"start":6179.46,"end":6181.46,"text":"在此本席要請教次長"},{"start":6181.46,"end":6183.46,"text":"民防大隊長是否"},{"start":6183.46,"end":6185.46,"text":"適用相關行政中立法規"},{"start":6185.46,"end":6187.46,"text":"如果不直接適用"},{"start":6187.46,"end":6189.46,"text":"還有哪些法律"},{"start":6189.46,"end":6191.46,"text":"可以約束"},{"start":6191.46,"end":6193.46,"text":"請回答"},{"start":6192.39,"en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會這個質詢後"},{"start":6286.24,"end":6288.24,"text":"本席會提供相關資料"},{"start":6288.24,"end":6290.24,"text":"給法務部 給宣訊部"},{"start":6290.24,"end":6292.24,"text":"請你們好好去調查"},{"start":6292.24,"end":6294.24,"text":"因為不能只是因為父子關係"},{"start":6294.24,"end":6296.24,"text":"就忽略他的職務"},{"start":6296.24,"end":6298.24,"text":"也不能是因為特地政黨"},{"start":6298.24,"end":6300.24,"text":"就放寬法律的尺度"},{"start":6300.24,"end":6302.24,"text":"接下來本席要提還是"},{"start":6302.24,"end":6304.24,"text":"九關基隆的案子"},{"start":6304.24,"end":6306.24,"text":"那這個蠻有意思的 就談談這個"},{"start":6306.24,"end":6310.24,"text":"基隆港黃阿瑪水上裝置藝術活動"},{"start":6310.51,"end":6312.51,"text":"這個根據目前外界"},{"start":6312.51,"end":6314.51,"text":"那個揭露的資訊"},{"start":6314.51,"end":6316.51,"text":"基隆市議會在今年8月24號"},{"start":6316.51,"end":6318.51,"text":"以議會的名義"},{"start":6318.51,"end":6320.51,"text":"向港務公司申請場地"},{"start":6320.51,"end":6322.51,"text":"短短十天就獲得核准"},{"start":6322.51,"end":6324.51,"text":"但是同樣也是在今年"},{"start":6324.51,"end":6326.51,"text":"基隆市政府過去為了"},{"start":6326.51,"end":6328.51,"text":"舉辦以前就已經辦過的"},{"start":6328.51,"end":6330.51,"text":"龍舟活動"},{"start":6330.51,"end":6332.51,"text":"同樣向港務公司申請場地"},{"start":6332.51,"end":6334.51,"text":"等了一個多月"},{"start":6334.51,"end":6336.51,"text":"最後得到的答覆卻是安全有疑慮"},{"start":6336.51,"end":6338.51,"text":"更值得注意的是"},{"start":6338.51,"end":6340.51,"text":"黃阿瑪活動的現場簽到單位"},{"start":6340.51,"end":6342.51,"text":"還出現童子瑋競選發言人"},{"start":6342.51,"end":6344.51,"text":"有本名的名字"},{"start":6344.51,"end":6346.51,"text":"身份標示委外單位"},{"start":6348.64,"end":6350.64,"text":"市長 本席不認為說"},{"start":6350.64,"end":6352.64,"text":"十天核准就一定違法"},{"start":6352.64,"end":6354.64,"text":"也不是說不同活動"},{"start":6354.64,"end":6356.64,"text":"就一定要有相同的審查結果"},{"start":6356.64,"end":6358.64,"text":"但是請問"},{"start":6358.64,"end":6364.64,"text":"兩個申請案的安全評估標準是什麼"},{"start":6364.64,"end":6366.64,"text":"審查流程有沒有一致"},{"start":6366.64,"end":6370.64,"text":"有沒有因為申請單位的身份"},{"start":6370.64,"end":6372.64,"text":"而給予不同待遇"},{"start":6373.05,"end":6375.05,"text":"這個應該屬於基隆港務局"},{"start":6375.05,"end":6377.05,"text":"他的主管機關應該是交通公司"},{"start":6377.05,"end":6379.05,"text":"港務公司應該是交通部"},{"start":6379.05,"end":6381.05,"text":"那這部分申請的不會經過法務部"},{"start":6381.05,"end":6382.05,"text":"所以這部分部裡面沒有"},{"start":6382.05,"end":6384.05,"text":"為什麼會提出來講呢"},{"start":6384.05,"end":6385.05,"text":"因為我們會認為說"},{"start":6385.05,"end":6387.05,"text":"難道公共場地的審查"},{"start":6387.05,"end":6389.05,"text":"也要看人來下菜碟嗎"},{"start":6390,"end":6392,"text":"一般老百姓申請場地要排隊"},{"start":6392,"end":6394,"text":"要審查要補件"},{"start":6394,"end":6396,"text":"如果有政治關心的人"},{"start":6396,"end":6398,"text":"就可能享有比較便利的待遇"},{"start":6398,"end":6400,"text":"那麼人民心裡面會怎麼想"},{"start":6400,"end":6402,"text":"市長 公共資源"},{"start":6402,"end":6404,"text":"不是政治人物的私人客廳"},{"start":6404,"end":6408,"text":"公家機關也不是候選人的競選服務處"},{"start":6408,"end":6410,"text":"我想這不是只有基隆"},{"start":6410,"end":6412,"text":"包括桃園 包括很多地方"},{"start":6412,"end":6414,"text":"在這一屆的選舉裡面"},{"start":6414,"end":6416,"text":"這種案件層出不窮"},{"start":6416,"end":6418,"text":"那所有人最後面都是來看著法務部"},{"start":6418,"end":6422,"text":"所以這件事情其實已經不是特別的個案"},{"start":6422,"end":6424,"text":"而是有點慢慢的變成通案的狀況"},{"start":6424,"end":6426,"text":"那本席要求的很簡單"},{"start":6426,"end":6430,"text":"就是請主管機關公開合理的審查依據"},{"start":6430,"end":6433,"text":"釐清有沒有不當官說利益輸送"},{"start":6433,"end":6435,"text":"或其他違法的情勢"},{"start":6435,"end":6439,"text":"有就依法處理 沒有就還人清白"},{"start":6439,"end":6441,"text":"這才叫公平吧"},{"start":6441,"end":6442,"text":"這是本席的想法"},{"start":6442,"end":6444,"text":"那市長您認為呢"},{"start":6444,"end":6445,"text":"這部分我們當然贊成"},{"start":6445,"end":6447,"text":"那如果說套詞違反大法"},{"start":6447,"end":6449,"text":"如果說套詞違反單純的違反行政中立"},{"start":6449,"end":6451,"text":"跟各目的主管機關"},{"start":6451,"end":6453,"text":"他會去做行政上的處理"},{"start":6453,"end":6455,"text":"但如果違反行政中立"},{"start":6455,"end":6457,"text":"可能涉及刑事犯罪的部分的話"},{"start":6457,"end":6459,"text":"假官只有犯罪行為"},{"start":6459,"end":6461,"text":"他也會可以依法偵辦 這沒有問題"},{"start":6461.17,"end":6464.17,"text":"如果說代表公務機關"},{"start":6464.17,"end":6467.17,"text":"沒有權限但代表公務機關"},{"start":6467.17,"end":6470.17,"text":"去談一些案子是不是有刑事責任"},{"start":6471.3,"end":6473.3,"text":"譬如說他本來沒有"},{"start":6473.3,"end":6476.3,"text":"基隆市議會正式的公務員身份"},{"start":6476.3,"end":6480.3,"text":"但是他卻代表基隆市議會去談合作案"},{"start":6480.3,"end":6483.3,"text":"這算不算是有刑事責任呢"},{"start":6483.3,"end":6486.3,"text":"各位每一個犯罪的構成要件不一樣"},{"start":6486.3,"end":6491.3,"text":"委員你講這個陳書的事實是有點短啦"},{"start":6491.3,"end":6493.3,"text":"有點少 沒有辦法去"},{"start":6493.3,"end":6495.3,"text":"去涵射到哪一個犯罪的構成要件"},{"start":6495.3,"end":6497.3,"text":"所以我可能沒辦法回答委員您的問題"},{"start":6497.3,"end":6499.3,"text":"那 市長 本席在"},{"start":6499.3,"end":6501.3,"text":"部長請坐 不好意思"},{"start":6501.62,"end":6505.62,"text":"市長 本席在舉一個已經有正式懲戒結果的案例"},{"start":6505.62,"end":6508.62,"text":"2018年促轉會張天青事件"},{"start":6508.62,"end":6512.62,"text":"當時張天青涉及利用機關職務跟資訊"},{"start":6512.62,"end":6516.62,"text":"針對新北市長候選人侯友宜操作政治議題"},{"start":6516.62,"end":6518.62,"text":"最後監察院通過彈劾"},{"start":6518.62,"end":6521.62,"text":"懲戒機關也做出撤職"},{"start":6521.62,"end":6523.62,"text":"停止任用兩年的判決"},{"start":6523.62,"end":6525.62,"text":"這個案件告訴我們什麼"},{"start":6525.62,"end":6528.62,"text":"政府給官員的是權限權力"},{"start":6528.62,"end":6530.62,"text":"不是選舉武器"},{"start":6530.62,"end":6532.62,"text":"人民交付的是信任"},{"start":6532.62,"end":6534.62,"text":"不是政治提款卡"},{"start":6534.62,"end":6538.62,"text":"市長 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可以"},{"start":6744.72,"end":6745.72,"text":"市長"},{"start":6745.72,"end":6748.72,"text":"本席今天不是要求檢察官辦藍不辦綠"},{"start":6748.72,"end":6750.72,"text":"也不是要求說辦綠不辦藍"},{"start":6750.72,"end":6753.72,"text":"我要求的是不管藍綠白"},{"start":6753.72,"end":6754.72,"text":"違法就是違法"},{"start":6754.72,"end":6756.72,"text":"不是官大官小"},{"start":6756.72,"end":6758.72,"text":"法律面前人人平等"},{"start":6758.72,"end":6760.72,"text":"誰都不能有特權"},{"start":6762.04,"end":6765.04,"text":"台灣民主走到今天非常不容易"},{"start":6765.04,"end":6768.04,"text":"多少前輩流血流汗才換來今天"},{"start":6768.04,"end":6770.04,"text":"人民手上這張神聖的選票"},{"start":6770.04,"end":6774.04,"text":"我們不能讓行政不中立傷害選舉的公平"},{"start":6774.04,"end":6777.04,"text":"更不能讓司法雙重標準的疑慮"},{"start":6777.04,"end":6779.04,"text":"來摧毀人民對政府的信任"},{"start":6779.04,"end":6780.04,"text":"市長"},{"start":6781.01,"end":6782.01,"text":"大家真的要的不多"},{"start":6782.01,"end":6785.01,"text":"不是要政府保證說每個人都不犯錯"},{"start":6785.01,"end":6787.01,"text":"而是要政府保證"},{"start":6787.01,"end":6790.01,"text":"犯了錯就用同一套標準來去做處理"},{"start":6790.01,"end":6793.01,"text":"如果法律只敢打蒼蠅不敢碰老虎"},{"start":6793.01,"end":6795.01,"text":"那不是司法威信"},{"start":6795.01,"end":6797.01,"text":"那是人民的悲哀"},{"start":6797.01,"end":6799.01,"text":"最後市長我送你三句話"},{"start":6799.01,"end":6802.01,"text":"行政中立不是看顏色決定立場"},{"start":6802.01,"end":6805.01,"text":"司法公正也不是看身份決定標準"},{"start":6805.01,"end":6809.01,"text":"民主政治不是誰有權利誰就有道理"},{"start":6809.01,"end":6812.01,"text":"而是誰都必須遵守同一個道理"},{"start":6812.01,"end":6817.01,"text":"希望法務部能夠拿出具體的查辦標準"},{"start":6817.01,"end":6818.01,"text":"實際的執法成果"},{"start":6818.01,"end":6821.01,"text":"而不是每一次都用依法辦理四個字"},{"start":6821.01,"end":6823.01,"text":"就想交代過去"},{"start":6823.01,"end":6826.01,"text":"因為全民要的不是四個字的答案"},{"start":6826.01,"end":6828.01,"text":"而是他們一輩子可以相信的公平"},{"start":6829.15,"end":6831.15,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":6846.4,"end":6847.4,"text":"還現在"},{"start":6849.3,"end":6852.3,"text":"我就是因為帶你來這裏瞧這裏瞧"},{"start":6853.28,"end":6854.28,"text":"我等你啊"},{"start":6854.28,"end":6855.28,"text":"好朋友"},{"start":6855.28,"end":6857.28,"text":"現在您已經到場"},{"start":6857.28,"end":6859.28,"text":"所以我要請教這個莊大委員"},{"start":6859.28,"end":6861.28,"text":"您覺得要繼續巡達還是"},{"start":6861.28,"end":6863.28,"text":"因為我之前已經宣告過要休息"},{"start":6863.28,"end":6865.28,"text":"您要休息還是要繼續"},{"start":6866.83,"end":6867.83,"text":"哇"},{"start":6868.86,"end":6870.86,"text":"主席就遵照"},{"start":6870.86,"end":6871.86,"text":"好"},{"start":6871.86,"end":6873.86,"text":"你水大概也喝夠"},{"start":6873.86,"end":6875.86,"text":"你們各位官員喝點水"},{"start":6875.86,"end":6877.86,"text":"好那前面一個我先"},{"start":6877.86,"end":6879.86,"text":"就是這個唱明一下"},{"start":6879.86,"end":6880.86,"text":"好"},{"start":6880.86,"end":6882.86,"text":"我先說完你休息你再休息"},{"start":6882.86,"end":6883.86,"text":"好這樣"},{"start":6883.86,"end":6884.86,"text":"好"},{"start":6884.86,"end":6886.86,"text":"好那我們這樣子"},{"start":6886.86,"end":6889.86,"text":"我們就要更正先前的宣告"},{"start":6889.86,"end":6892.86,"text":"那繼續進行質詢"},{"start":6892.86,"end":6895.86,"text":"那下一位是省發會委員"},{"start":6896.8,"end":6898.8,"text":"省發會委員"},{"start":6899.3,"end":6901.3,"text":"省發會委員"},{"start":6901.87,"end":6902.87,"text":"好不在"},{"start":6902.87,"end":6903.87,"text":"好那"},{"start":6903.87,"end":6906.87,"text":"不是"},{"start":6906.87,"end":6908.87,"text":"我們林沛祥委員在休息"},{"start":6908.87,"end":6910.87,"text":"要等你啊"},{"start":6910.87,"end":6913.87,"text":"好你如果宣告林沛祥休息"},{"start":6913.87,"end":6915.87,"text":"這樣省發會現在不在場"},{"start":6915.87,"end":6917.87,"text":"所以你應該要等他"},{"start":6917.87,"end":6918.87,"text":"不是他書面"},{"start":6918.87,"end":6919.87,"text":"他已經書面了"},{"start":6919.87,"end":6920.87,"text":"那我可以"},{"start":6920.87,"end":6922.87,"text":"我都講出來了"},{"start":6922.87,"end":6923.87,"text":"對不起對不起"},{"start":6923.87,"end":6924.87,"text":"他書面了當然可以"},{"start":6924.87,"end":6925.87,"text":"你看我對你這麼好"},{"start":6925.87,"end":6926.87,"text":"是啦"},{"start":6926.87,"end":6927.87,"text":"人情意義"},{"start":6928.46,"end":6931.46,"text":"好那下一位請張瑞雄委員"},{"start":6934.76,"end":6936.76,"text":"謝謝主席主席很英明"},{"start":6936.76,"end":6937.76,"text":"也體會"},{"start":6937.76,"end":6940.76,"text":"去體恤大家每一個委員"},{"start":6940.76,"end":6942.76,"text":"在立法院的很多的活動"},{"start":6942.76,"end":6944.76,"text":"像我們黨團的黨編"},{"start":6944.76,"end":6946.76,"text":"我們就每天早上記者會"},{"start":6946.76,"end":6948.76,"text":"也是在服務所有的媒體朋友"},{"start":6948.76,"end":6950.76,"text":"感謝主席很英明"},{"start":6950.76,"end":6951.76,"text":"我們請"},{"start":6951.76,"end":6953.76,"text":"我們我看看"},{"start":6957.27,"end":6958.27,"text":"你今天就要問"},{"start":6958.27,"end":6960.27,"text":"你拜這個你就要問農業部的"},{"start":6960.27,"end":6962.27,"text":"別人叫上去都不是農業部的"},{"start":6962.27,"end":6963.27,"text":"好奇怪"},{"start":6963.27,"end":6965.27,"text":"農業部黃次長"},{"start":6965.27,"end":6967.27,"text":"農業部黃次長"},{"start":6967.27,"end":6969.27,"text":"對你今天就要向農業部的"},{"start":6969.27,"end":6971.27,"text":"你就不敢說出來"},{"start":6971.27,"end":6973.27,"text":"他們要來負責任啦"},{"start":6973.27,"end":6974.27,"text":"好啦全序部好不好"},{"start":6974.27,"end":6976.27,"text":"全序部市部長"},{"start":6977,"end":6978,"text":"黃次長我就不用了"},{"start":6978,"end":6979,"text":"黃次長剛上來"},{"start":6979,"end":6981,"text":"就都在給我們國會上課"},{"start":6981,"end":6982,"text":"喝個水"},{"start":6982,"end":6983,"text":"這都不用啦"},{"start":6983.88,"end":6984.88,"text":"你喝你喝"},{"start":6984.88,"end":6987.88,"text":"來這個農業部黃次長"},{"start":6987.88,"end":6988.88,"text":"我先問你"},{"start":6988.88,"end":6993.88,"text":"我看今天稍微排將的一個議程裡面"},{"start":6993.88,"end":6995.88,"text":"就是對你"},{"start":6996.3,"end":6999.3,"text":"你們的農業非公用的這個不動產"},{"start":6999.3,"end":7001.3,"text":"去租給政黨來做造勢"},{"start":7001.3,"end":7002.3,"text":"候選人來造勢"},{"start":7002.3,"end":7005.3,"text":"我們就聚焦在這個地方"},{"start":7005.3,"end":7007.3,"text":"那我要請教的就是說"},{"start":7007.95,"end":7009.95,"text":"我們一般只要非公用的"},{"start":7009.95,"end":7012.95,"text":"甚至於其實很多都是公用的不動產"},{"start":7012.95,"end":7016.95,"text":"我們照樣在做租借"},{"start":7016.95,"end":7017.95,"text":"我看台北市"},{"start":7019.24,"end":7020.24,"text":"以我個人為例"},{"start":7020.24,"end":7023.24,"text":"我過去在當台北市黨部主委的時候"},{"start":7023.24,"end":7026.24,"text":"我們很多政黨的活動"},{"start":7026.24,"end":7028.24,"text":"比如說我們要改選黨職"},{"start":7028.24,"end":7030.24,"text":"我也都一照下"},{"start":7030.24,"end":7032.24,"text":"石牌國中我們照到不照"},{"start":7032.24,"end":7034.24,"text":"大安高說我們照到不照"},{"start":7034.24,"end":7036.24,"text":"很多地方其實都會照"},{"start":7036.24,"end":7037.24,"text":"很正常"},{"start":7037.24,"end":7038.24,"text":"重點是在於"},{"start":7038.24,"end":7040.24,"text":"我聽不懂的地方是"},{"start":7040.24,"end":7042.24,"text":"請你們釐清的地方"},{"start":7043.54,"end":7045.54,"text":"陳昭之委員排這個"},{"start":7045.54,"end":7046.54,"text":"我覺得讓你們講清楚"},{"start":7046.54,"end":7047.54,"text":"很好"},{"start":7048.58,"end":7050.58,"text":"我的意思是說行政中立"},{"start":7050.58,"end":7053.58,"text":"政府本來就要嚴守行政中立"},{"start":7053.58,"end":7055.58,"text":"行政中立的核心就是說"},{"start":7055.58,"end":7057.58,"text":"有沒有公平對待"},{"start":7057.58,"end":7059.58,"text":"你有公平對待嗎"},{"start":7059.58,"end":7061.58,"text":"你說民進黨來做"},{"start":7061.58,"end":7063.58,"text":"你不做"},{"start":7063.58,"end":7064.58,"text":"國民黨來做"},{"start":7064.58,"end":7065.58,"text":"你就做"},{"start":7065.58,"end":7067.58,"text":"民進黨會把你幹掉"},{"start":7067.58,"end":7070.58,"text":"國民黨來租可以"},{"start":7070.58,"end":7072.58,"text":"台灣民眾黨來租不可以"},{"start":7072.58,"end":7075.58,"text":"這個陳昭之一定把你批配給我"},{"start":7075.58,"end":7076.58,"text":"我還會挺他"},{"start":7076.58,"end":7079.58,"text":"我會說為什麼國民黨租可以"},{"start":7079.58,"end":7080.58,"text":"台灣民眾黨就不行"},{"start":7080.58,"end":7081.58,"text":"你在欺負台灣民眾黨"},{"start":7081.58,"end":7083.58,"text":"連我民進黨我都看不下去"},{"start":7083.58,"end":7085.58,"text":"各政黨就這樣子"},{"start":7085.58,"end":7090.58,"text":"大家這個是公平的來做一個對待"},{"start":7090.58,"end":7093.58,"text":"那本案我想請教就是說"},{"start":7093.58,"end":7096.58,"text":"我們2020年水利會改制以後"},{"start":7096.58,"end":7099.58,"text":"你們到底這款長租跟短租"},{"start":7099.58,"end":7103.58,"text":"你們短租是規範還沒有建立是不是"},{"start":7103.58,"end":7104.58,"text":"如果沒有建立的話"},{"start":7104.58,"end":7105.58,"text":"如果沒有建立的話"},{"start":7105.58,"end":7107.58,"text":"我認為核心問題"},{"start":7107.58,"end":7109.58,"text":"今天給他建立規則"},{"start":7109.58,"end":7110.58,"text":"這個第一個"},{"start":7110.58,"end":7113.58,"text":"你說行政要有定時嗎"},{"start":7113.58,"end":7115.58,"text":"我說假設這個案子是我"},{"start":7115.58,"end":7117.58,"text":"莊瑞雄來承辦"},{"start":7117.58,"end":7118.58,"text":"我做你們的少年"},{"start":7118.58,"end":7120.58,"text":"案子送我這裡來"},{"start":7120.58,"end":7122.58,"text":"我會覺得這幾天買給他"},{"start":7122.58,"end":7124.58,"text":"要給他看看我們不在用"},{"start":7124.58,"end":7126.58,"text":"我閒置的土地在那個地方"},{"start":7126.58,"end":7128.58,"text":"我閒置土地"},{"start":7128.58,"end":7129.58,"text":"我非公用的"},{"start":7129.58,"end":7131.58,"text":"尤其是非公用的不動產"},{"start":7131.58,"end":7133.58,"text":"我當然要活化"},{"start":7133.58,"end":7135.58,"text":"我可以賺一點錢是好事"},{"start":7135.58,"end":7138.58,"text":"為國庫或為機關來做一個進帳"},{"start":7138.58,"end":7141.58,"text":"這第一個我反而會肯認"},{"start":7141.58,"end":7143.58,"text":"但是有一個前提就是說"},{"start":7143.58,"end":7146.58,"text":"你不能夠給我做國民黨"},{"start":7146.58,"end":7148.58,"text":"你也不能給我做民進黨"},{"start":7148.58,"end":7150.58,"text":"台灣民眾黨要給他做是沒有用的"},{"start":7150.58,"end":7151.58,"text":"你就不要做他"},{"start":7152.38,"end":7153.38,"text":"交易的部分是"},{"start":7153.38,"end":7155.38,"text":"我第一個想法是"},{"start":7155.38,"end":7157.38,"text":"台灣民眾黨去做你不要做他"},{"start":7158.18,"end":7159.18,"text":"有這個問題嗎"},{"start":7159.18,"end":7160.18,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":7160.18,"end":7162.18,"text":"因為基本上不管是農水署"},{"start":7162.18,"end":7165.18,"text":"或者是他所屬的這個事業處"},{"start":7165.18,"end":7167.18,"text":"基本上都是屬於公務機關"},{"start":7167.18,"end":7169.18,"text":"我們絕對不會有這種"},{"start":7169.18,"end":7173.18,"text":"只偏向只能租給某個政黨的這種問題"},{"start":7173.18,"end":7175.18,"text":"所以基本上只要是我們公開招租"},{"start":7175.18,"end":7177.18,"text":"或者是說他要來"},{"start":7177.18,"end":7180.18,"text":"因為今天這個案子會有一點尷尬"},{"start":7180.18,"end":7183.18,"text":"剛好也就是像委員所說的"},{"start":7183.18,"end":7184.18,"text":"先回答三個問題"},{"start":7184.18,"end":7187.18,"text":"我們一定沒有什麼顏色黨派之分"},{"start":7187.18,"end":7188.18,"text":"任何人來租都可以租"},{"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8,"text":"所以本席要求該建立起來"},{"start":7605.18,"end":7607.18,"text":"有缺漏的制度我們就把它補齊"},{"start":7607.18,"end":7609.18,"text":"對以後"},{"start":7609.18,"end":7611.18,"text":"所有的政黨"},{"start":7611.18,"end":7615.18,"text":"對於公家機關的這種非公用的不動產"},{"start":7615.18,"end":7617.18,"text":"要去做一個租界"},{"start":7617.18,"end":7619.18,"text":"如何給他們便利性"},{"start":7619.18,"end":7621.18,"text":"不要去做差別待遇"},{"start":7621.18,"end":7623.18,"text":"我覺得建立一個規範以這一次來看的話"},{"start":7623.18,"end":7625.18,"text":"今天排這個專報"},{"start":7625.18,"end":7627.18,"text":"有它的一個實意好不好"},{"start":7627.18,"end":7629.18,"text":"是我們會要求所有的管理處建立一次"},{"start":7629.18,"end":7631.18,"text":"然後更細緻的這個規範"},{"start":7631.18,"end":7633.18,"text":"再細緻的做起來以後大家也可以說"},{"start":7633.18,"end":7635.18,"text":"以前農業部去用批評就一件"},{"start":7635.18,"end":7637.18,"text":"所以整個大家越聽越清楚"},{"start":7637.18,"end":7639.18,"text":"這是好事"},{"start":7639.18,"end":7641.18,"text":"各政黨各縣市"},{"start":7641.18,"end":7643.18,"text":"不管是中央或者地方"},{"start":7643.18,"end":7645.18,"text":"大家把制度把它講清楚"},{"start":7645.18,"end":7647.18,"text":"比較不適合選舉大家在飛"},{"start":7647.18,"end":7649.18,"text":"好不好"},{"start":7649.18,"end":7651.18,"text":"謝謝加油"},{"start":7651.18,"end":7653.18,"text":"莊大維有所不知啊"},{"start":7653.18,"end":7655.18,"text":"農田水利署他們自己有個辦法"},{"start":7655.18,"end":7657.18,"text":"進15萬以內才可以進行處理"},{"start":7657.18,"end":7659.18,"text":"不用公開"},{"start":7659.18,"end":7661.18,"text":"一行違法在先嘛"},{"start":7661.18,"end":7663.18,"text":"要就違法嘛"},{"start":7663.04,"end":7665.04,"text":"剛才讓你們動心應對"},{"start":7665.04,"end":7667.04,"text":"讓他們去檢討"},{"start":7667.04,"end":7669.04,"text":"我的意思是說"},{"start":7669.04,"end":7671.04,"text":"如果這條民眾黨來它反對你"},{"start":7671.04,"end":7673.04,"text":"我替你出聲"},{"start":7673.04,"end":7675.04,"text":"不是嘛"},{"start":7675.04,"end":7677.04,"text":"有人先打破這個戰法"},{"start":7677.04,"end":7679.04,"text":"他們要檢討"},{"start":7679.04,"end":7681.04,"text":"不管誰來執政"},{"start":7681.04,"end":7683.04,"text":"我們想台灣社會大家就是一個很公平"},{"start":7683.04,"end":7685.04,"text":"一個很公正公平的機會"},{"start":7685.04,"end":7687.04,"text":"我站那邊讓你質詢"},{"start":7687.04,"end":7689.04,"text":"我剛才是說小金剛"},{"start":7689.04,"end":7691.04,"text":"他的綽號我都叫出來"},{"start":7691.04,"end":7693.04,"text":"你們的辦法先違法嘛"},{"start":7693.04,"end":7695.04,"text":"有所不知"},{"start":7695.04,"end":7697.04,"text":"我尊敬的詹委員我已經結束了"},{"start":7697.04,"end":7699.04,"text":"言行一致最重要"},{"start":7699.04,"end":7701.04,"text":"法條跟做法一致最重要"},{"start":7701.04,"end":7703.04,"text":"謝謝詹委員"},{"start":7708.48,"end":7710.48,"text":"我們下一位委員是"},{"start":7710.48,"end":7712.48,"text":"登記是鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":7712.85,"end":7714.85,"text":"鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":7715.42,"end":7717.42,"text":"鍾嘉斌委員他不在"},{"start":7718.89,"end":7720.89,"text":"邱志偉委員"},{"start":7720.89,"end":7722.89,"text":"邱志偉委員"},{"start":7723.3,"end":7725.3,"text":"邱志偉委員"},{"start":7725.3,"end":7727.3,"text":"不在"},{"start":7730.37,"end":7732.37,"text":"心虛啦"},{"start":7732.37,"end":7734.37,"text":"我們下一位請林茜琪委員"},{"start":7734.37,"end":7736.37,"text":"林茜琪委員"},{"start":7747.51,"end":7749.51,"text":"謝謝我們的主席陳昭偉"},{"start":7749.51,"end":7751.51,"text":"我們請法務部長"},{"start":7751.51,"end":7753.51,"text":"法務部次長"},{"start":7753.51,"end":7755.51,"text":"今天出席的黃次長"},{"start":7755.51,"end":7757.51,"text":"還有我們全區部長"},{"start":7757.51,"end":7759.51,"text":"有請黃次長全區部"},{"start":7759.51,"end":7761.51,"text":"市部長"},{"start":7763.8,"end":7765.8,"text":"大家好"},{"start":7765.8,"end":7767.8,"text":"市長部長好"},{"start":7767.8,"end":7771.8,"text":"兩位本席想要先請教一個法律的問題"},{"start":7771.8,"end":7779.8,"text":"是不是請次長可以針對本席接下來提的公職人員選罷法的第50條的規定"},{"start":7779.8,"end":7785.8,"text":"來跟本席分享一下你的法律見解"},{"start":7785.8,"end":7789.8,"text":"這個規定是在中央跟地方政府的各級機關"},{"start":7789.8,"end":7792.8,"text":"在法定競選活動期間不得從事"},{"start":7792.8,"end":7796.8,"text":"任何與競選宣傳有關的活動"},{"start":7796.8,"end":7800.8,"text":"但是假設一個機關首長在執行公務所到的場所"},{"start":7800.8,"end":7805.8,"text":"還是在處於執行公務或隨時待命的期間"},{"start":7805.8,"end":7807.8,"text":"那明知在場的人士呢"},{"start":7807.8,"end":7811.8,"text":"具有特定候選人競選總幹事的身份"},{"start":7811.8,"end":7815.8,"text":"那麼主動的展示候選人的競選宣傳的圖樣"},{"start":7815.8,"end":7817.8,"text":"而且由對方在拍攝"},{"start":7817.8,"end":7821.8,"text":"那這個照片後來又成為競選團隊成員"},{"start":7821.8,"end":7824.8,"text":"搭配支持候選人的這個名字"},{"start":7824.8,"end":7826.8,"text":"公開發布到社群平台"},{"start":7826.8,"end":7830.8,"text":"那麼實際產生了競選宣傳的這個效果"},{"start":7830.8,"end":7834.8,"text":"這樣子的一個背景下的本期請教次長"},{"start":7834.8,"end":7836.8,"text":"請教兩位"},{"start":7836.8,"end":7841.8,"text":"判斷有沒有從事競選宣傳有關之活動"},{"start":7841.8,"end":7845.8,"text":"究竟是要看行為的實質目的與最終成果"},{"start":7845.8,"end":7849.8,"text":"還是只要使用私人手機就變成私人行為"},{"start":7849.8,"end":7852.8,"text":"另外呢在宣傳素材"},{"start":7852.8,"end":7855.8,"text":"不是機關首長自己上網發布"},{"start":7855.8,"end":7859.8,"text":"而是明知道有這樣子的事實或可能性"},{"start":7859.8,"end":7863.8,"text":"來配合競選團隊成員來拍攝"},{"start":7863.8,"end":7865.8,"text":"再由對方來公開發布"},{"start":7865.8,"end":7871.8,"text":"能不能就當然排除其參與競選宣傳活動的可能"},{"start":7871.8,"end":7874.8,"text":"那最後呢如果上述的事實"},{"start":7875.8,"end":7880.8,"text":"發生在第40條所訂的法定競選活動期間"},{"start":7880.8,"end":7884.8,"text":"那麼次長部長你們覺得這樣子一個法律的解釋上"},{"start":7884.8,"end":7888.8,"text":"是不是至少已經具備有第50條宣稱的"},{"start":7888.8,"end":7891.8,"text":"與競選宣傳有關之活動"},{"start":7891.8,"end":7894.8,"text":"而必須進一步審查的可能性"},{"start":7894.8,"end":7899.8,"text":"那麼就請你們就這個本席所提的三點回答"},{"start":7899.8,"end":7902.8,"text":"然後不需要就個案來評論"},{"start":7904.62,"end":7905.62,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":7905.62,"end":7909.62,"text":"當然委員提到選罷法主管機關當然是內政部"},{"start":7909.62,"end":7912.62,"text":"那委員提到那我就試著就是說"},{"start":7912.62,"end":7916.62,"text":"第一個選罷法把第50條它這個期間"},{"start":7916.62,"end":7919.62,"text":"前提它必須要是在競選的期間內"},{"start":7919.62,"end":7922.62,"text":"發生的這些宣傳活動才會構成"},{"start":7922.62,"end":7926.62,"text":"那競選期間我們選罷法它在第40條其實有一些規範"},{"start":7926.62,"end":7929.62,"text":"它必須要在這一個"},{"start":7929.62,"end":7933.62,"text":"每一種不同的選舉它有不同的所謂的競選期間的規範"},{"start":7933.62,"end":7935.62,"text":"所以它你想講這個行為必須要發生在"},{"start":7937.17,"end":7941.17,"text":"選罷法第40條所規定的這個競選期間內"},{"start":7941.17,"end":7945.17,"text":"才有可能該當這個剛選罷法就提到的第50條"},{"start":7945.17,"end":7946.17,"text":"這個第一個"},{"start":7946.17,"end":7949.17,"text":"那第二個就是說第一個它從事的行為必須要"},{"start":7949.17,"end":7952.17,"text":"跟它競選有關的相關的活動"},{"start":7952.17,"end":7956.17,"text":"才會可能構成50條的問題"},{"start":7956.17,"end":7959.17,"text":"那是不是競選有關的活動它當然就會涉及到個案"},{"start":7959.17,"end":7961.17,"text":"這不可能不涉及到個案"},{"start":7961.17,"end":7963.17,"text":"這個時候就必須要有個案去做判斷"},{"start":7963.17,"end":7965.17,"text":"就法規面的部分"},{"start":7965.17,"end":7966.17,"text":"雖然我們不是主管機關"},{"start":7966.17,"end":7970.17,"text":"但我對這兩條的理解是在這邊跟各位報告"},{"start":7970.17,"end":7972.17,"text":"那所以剛才本席所提的這三點呢"},{"start":7972.17,"end":7975.17,"text":"有關於這個實質目的最終效果"},{"start":7975.17,"end":7977.17,"text":"還有手機的一個使用"},{"start":7977.17,"end":7980.17,"text":"跟是不是私人行為與否"},{"start":7980.17,"end":7983.17,"text":"然後當然您這邊講說有沒有競選的配合"},{"start":7983.17,"end":7986.17,"text":"那如果是在期間跟時間外"},{"start":7986.17,"end":7988.17,"text":"那這樣一個模糊的空間"},{"start":7988.17,"end":7991.17,"text":"如果就你這樣講就由內政部去認定嗎"},{"start":7991.74,"end":7993.74,"text":"這個必須要個案去判斷"},{"start":7993.74,"end":7996.74,"text":"那第一個部分就是說如果這個"},{"start":7996.74,"end":7999.74,"text":"有關於行為、實質目的跟最終效果"},{"start":7999.74,"end":8001.74,"text":"還有使用私人手機的這個區塊"},{"start":8001.74,"end":8003.74,"text":"這也是要個案去認定嗎"},{"start":8003.74,"end":8004.74,"text":"那當然是個案"},{"start":8004.74,"end":8005.74,"text":"前提國務委員報告"},{"start":8005.74,"end":8008.74,"text":"前提它必須要發生在競選期間喔"},{"start":8008.74,"end":8012.74,"text":"40條那個競選期間才會該當這50條的構成要件"},{"start":8012.74,"end":8014.74,"text":"那本席接下來來談一下"},{"start":8014.74,"end":8018.74,"text":"那現行的法律如果以直轄市長的選舉為例"},{"start":8018.74,"end":8020.74,"text":"那麼法定競選活動期間"},{"start":8020.74,"end":8023.74,"text":"只有在投票日前的15天"},{"start":8023.74,"end":8025.74,"text":"那也就是說同樣的政治宣傳行為"},{"start":8025.74,"end":8027.74,"text":"如果在15天以前"},{"start":8027.74,"end":8030.74,"text":"那第50條就不能處理吧"},{"start":8030.74,"end":8032.74,"text":"或是未必能夠處理是嗎"},{"start":8032.74,"end":8035.74,"text":"對,如果委員你提的是第50條"},{"start":8035.74,"end":8037.74,"text":"它的確規範的非常清楚"},{"start":8037.74,"end":8038.74,"text":"它必須要競選期間"},{"start":8038.74,"end":8040.74,"text":"那第10期間是什麼時間"},{"start":8041.7,"end":8044.7,"text":"直轄市市長在第40條的第一項第一款"},{"start":8044.7,"end":8046.7,"text":"他規定的確就是前15天"},{"start":8046.7,"end":8048.7,"text":"所以你要單純就50條"},{"start":8048.7,"end":8051.7,"text":"他的確會有委員剛所提的這個期間的問題沒有錯"},{"start":8052.17,"end":8056.17,"text":"好,那所以接下來本席就請教我們部長全區部長"},{"start":8056.17,"end":8061.17,"text":"所以在公務人員行政中立法主要是規範長任的文官"},{"start":8061.17,"end":8064.17,"text":"那政治任命的部會首長、政務委委員"},{"start":8064.17,"end":8069.17,"text":"也不會全面受到相同的行政中立的規範"},{"start":8069.17,"end":8074.17,"text":"那麼如果是基層公務人員都不能利用上半時間行政資源"},{"start":8074.17,"end":8076.17,"text":"替候選人來助選"},{"start":8076.17,"end":8078.17,"text":"但是真正掌握部會預算"},{"start":8078.17,"end":8082.17,"text":"人事政策跟龐大行政資源的政務官"},{"start":8082.17,"end":8086.17,"text":"以及缺...反而缺乏一套比較完整的系統"},{"start":8086.17,"end":8091.17,"text":"來明確做政治活動參與或配合的一個規範"},{"start":8091.17,"end":8094.17,"text":"那請問這應該要怎麼辦呢"},{"start":8095.23,"end":8099.23,"text":"跟委員報告,這個行政中立法裡面有規範很特定的"},{"start":8099.23,"end":8103.23,"text":"所謂政治性任命的是比較是獨立機關的委員"},{"start":8103.23,"end":8105.23,"text":"那所謂其他的..."},{"start":8107.13,"end":8112.13,"text":"外界講的政務人員確實他的行為不是規範在行政中立法"},{"start":8112.13,"end":8114.13,"text":"但是行政中立法規範一件事情"},{"start":8114.13,"end":8116.13,"text":"如果你是一個機關首長"},{"start":8116.27,"end":8118.27,"text":"因為政務人員也可能當機關首長"},{"start":8119.75,"end":8124.75,"text":"只要回到剛剛講選舉公告以後到投票這中間的期間"},{"start":8124.75,"end":8126.75,"text":"你應該要禁止所有..."},{"start":8127.55,"end":8130.55,"text":"其他候選人或公職候選人或各式各樣政黨"},{"start":8130.55,"end":8133.55,"text":"到你機關裡面去有任何造訪的活動"},{"start":8133.55,"end":8135.55,"text":"你們一直在講這個時間"},{"start":8135.55,"end":8137.55,"text":"那麼本席要強調的是"},{"start":8137.55,"end":8138.55,"text":"本席要強調的是"},{"start":8138.55,"end":8140.55,"text":"其實剛才那個莊委員在講一些"},{"start":8140.55,"end":8143.55,"text":"你們這邊也回應他一些懲戒的問題"},{"start":8143.55,"end":8146.55,"text":"那相關機關的懲...就是有一些這個"},{"start":8146.55,"end":8148.55,"text":"我們談的這個相關個案的這個懲戒"},{"start":8148.55,"end":8150.55,"text":"都要回到各機關"},{"start":8150.55,"end":8152.55,"text":"可是呢如果首長是不中立的"},{"start":8152.55,"end":8154.55,"text":"那我覺得各機關真的也很難做"},{"start":8154.55,"end":8156.55,"text":"就是在法條跟實務操作上"},{"start":8156.55,"end":8160.55,"text":"其實還是有很大的一個不一致的狀況"},{"start":8160.55,"end":8163.55,"text":"但是我們再回到剛才我們所講的"},{"start":8163.55,"end":8166.55,"text":"如果行政院長、部長、政務委員"},{"start":8166.55,"end":8168.55,"text":"都是官派也不是人民直選"},{"start":8168.55,"end":8173.55,"text":"那麼但是他們卻掌握了國家很大的行政權力"},{"start":8173.55,"end":8178.55,"text":"那麼法律呢如果只要求下面的幾十萬的長任公務人員"},{"start":8178.55,"end":8180.55,"text":"來行政中立"},{"start":8180.55,"end":8185.55,"text":"但對下面的政務官的限制相對是有很多的這個"},{"start":8185.55,"end":8186.55,"text":"灰色地帶"},{"start":8186.55,"end":8190.55,"text":"那你不覺得這個狀況還滿荒謬的嗎"},{"start":8191.57,"end":8195.57,"text":"我不知道你們怎麼樣去看待這樣子的問題"},{"start":8195.57,"end":8198.57,"text":"每次要選舉的時候或接近選舉"},{"start":8198.57,"end":8202.57,"text":"都會有這樣子的一個大家提出來的質疑"},{"start":8202.57,"end":8203.57,"text":"那你們怎麼看待"},{"start":8204.26,"end":8208.26,"text":"國務委員報告這個我想任何的制度本身的運作"},{"start":8208.26,"end":8212.26,"text":"當然還有很多其他條件大家一起來共同讓它實現"},{"start":8212.26,"end":8214.26,"text":"不過至少就行政中立法對"},{"start":8214.26,"end":8218.26,"text":"因為政務人員大部分都是擔任長官"},{"start":8218.26,"end":8221.26,"text":"那對長官我剛剛講除了有十三條以外"},{"start":8221.26,"end":8224.26,"text":"那另外長官也不可以違法指示"},{"start":8224.26,"end":8227.26,"text":"他說同仁的做任何違反行政中立的事情"},{"start":8227.26,"end":8229.26,"text":"如果他做這個事情"},{"start":8229.26,"end":8230.26,"text":"我想最後呢"},{"start":8230.26,"end":8232.26,"text":"那個他上級長官當然可以講"},{"start":8232.26,"end":8233.26,"text":"上級長官如果不處理"},{"start":8233.26,"end":8237.26,"text":"最後可以到監察案去做這個提起這個個案的一個"},{"start":8237.26,"end":8239.26,"text":"好我們今天就全序部的部分"},{"start":8239.26,"end":8242.26,"text":"那全序部來掌理整個公務人員的服務"},{"start":8242.26,"end":8247.26,"text":"還有行政中立相關的法令的擬議跟解釋"},{"start":8247.26,"end":8252.26,"text":"那目前立法院也要再審查政務人員法的一個相關草案"},{"start":8252.26,"end":8257.26,"text":"那最主要的問題就是和政務人員的這個行為奮進"},{"start":8257.26,"end":8261.26,"text":"行政中立還有責任制度其實到現在還很不完整"},{"start":8261.26,"end":8263.26,"text":"那請你們表達看法最主要是"},{"start":8263.26,"end":8265.26,"text":"那麼在政務人員的法制的話"},{"start":8265.26,"end":8269.26,"text":"是不是應該要明定政務官不得於執行公務期間"},{"start":8269.26,"end":8272.26,"text":"或辦公或辦公公務的場所"},{"start":8272.26,"end":8275.26,"text":"那跟他職務身份相關的行政資源"},{"start":8275.26,"end":8283.26,"text":"還有為特定政黨或候選人製作參與或協助競選宣傳的一些工作"},{"start":8283.26,"end":8285.26,"text":"所以法治主管的權責這部分"},{"start":8285.26,"end":8288.26,"text":"全序部考試院不是應該負起責任"},{"start":8288.26,"end":8290.26,"text":"在本席認為這個部分"},{"start":8290.26,"end":8293.26,"text":"在法治面既然我們有這麼多的個案"},{"start":8293.26,"end":8295.26,"text":"那我們其實強調的是整個制度"},{"start":8295.26,"end":8298.26,"text":"那你們也知道制度上的一些困境"},{"start":8298.26,"end":8302.26,"text":"那所以在這個部分呢我們也不希望求援兼裁判"},{"start":8302.26,"end":8307.26,"text":"所以法律不能對常任文官的這個高強高主"},{"start":8307.26,"end":8309.26,"text":"卻對政務官來開大門"},{"start":8309.26,"end":8313.26,"text":"所以在當我們進入這個法條的這個部分"},{"start":8313.26,"end":8316.26,"text":"我也希望你們能夠就目前個案的這個經驗"},{"start":8316.26,"end":8318.26,"text":"然後在制度面可以建立得更完整"},{"start":8319.94,"end":8325.94,"text":"好那接下來本席要請這個應該農田農"},{"start":8325.94,"end":8328.94,"text":"農業部次長跟署長"},{"start":8328.94,"end":8330.94,"text":"黃次長跟署長"},{"start":8331.38,"end":8333.38,"text":"謝謝那兩位請回"},{"start":8336.41,"end":8340.41,"text":"我想今天要問的問題也不是新鮮的"},{"start":8340.41,"end":8345.41,"text":"這兩天都有委員提出來這個有關於"},{"start":8345.41,"end":8348.41,"text":"能非公用土地租借的這個問題"},{"start":8348.41,"end":8351.41,"text":"那剛才本席前一位那個莊人衛雄委員"},{"start":8351.41,"end":8354.41,"text":"用很風趣的方式"},{"start":8354.41,"end":8358.41,"text":"試圖把這整個問題的一個嚴肅性"},{"start":8358.41,"end":8360.41,"text":"做一些稀釋"},{"start":8360.41,"end":8362.41,"text":"但是我們還是要回到這個"},{"start":8362.41,"end":8365.41,"text":"我們在公務部門的一個嚴肅的主題"},{"start":8365.41,"end":8368.41,"text":"所以其實在剛才莊委員"},{"start":8368.41,"end":8371.41,"text":"我想你們也應該知道本席要質詢什麼"},{"start":8371.41,"end":8375.41,"text":"我還是把這個背景清楚交代一下"},{"start":8375.41,"end":8378.41,"text":"那你們在國有土地出租公平性的問題"},{"start":8378.41,"end":8380.41,"text":"是本席接下來要討論"},{"start":8381.09,"end":8383.09,"text":"跟辯證的"},{"start":8383.09,"end":8386.09,"text":"所以市長候選人我們講桃園"},{"start":8386.09,"end":8390.09,"text":"應該是法務部大家都很熟悉的次長黃次長"},{"start":8390.09,"end":8394.09,"text":"租用了農田水利署的中壢區的中運段"},{"start":8395.01,"end":8400.01,"text":"145地號土地舉行辦理大象的大型的一個選舉活動"},{"start":8400.01,"end":8403.01,"text":"整個面積是1655坪"},{"start":8403.01,"end":8405.01,"text":"那使用了兩天"},{"start":8405.81,"end":8409.81,"text":"那麼農水署的說法是租金81700元"},{"start":8409.81,"end":8411.81,"text":"那外界很質疑"},{"start":8411.81,"end":8413.81,"text":"不僅是對錢有質疑"},{"start":8413.81,"end":8416.81,"text":"對於這個土地的租借也很質疑"},{"start":8416.81,"end":8419.81,"text":"那剛才其實招職委員在回應"},{"start":8419.81,"end":8421.81,"text":"在補充莊瑞雄委員"},{"start":8421.81,"end":8425.81,"text":"試圖想要把它作為一個公平性的討論的"},{"start":8425.81,"end":8426.81,"text":"這個問題"},{"start":8426.81,"end":8428.81,"text":"也做了一些回應"},{"start":8428.81,"end":8431.81,"text":"那最重要的是你們自己有一個規定"},{"start":8432.21,"end":8433.21,"text":"為什麼大家有意見"},{"start":8433.21,"end":8435.21,"text":"就是你們的規定裡面明定"},{"start":8435.21,"end":8441.21,"text":"農田水利非事業用不動產活化收益辦法第19條"},{"start":8441.21,"end":8442.21,"text":"原則上"},{"start":8442.21,"end":8445.21,"text":"非事業用的不動產出租"},{"start":8445.21,"end":8447.21,"text":"應該要公開標出"},{"start":8447.21,"end":8448.21,"text":"另外"},{"start":8448.42,"end":8452.42,"text":"整個的例外是包括年租金沒有達到15萬元"},{"start":8452.42,"end":8454.42,"text":"才可以盡予出租"},{"start":8454.42,"end":8456.42,"text":"那第21條又規定"},{"start":8456.42,"end":8462.42,"text":"一般土地年租金不得低於當期土地申報地價總額的5%"},{"start":8462.42,"end":8464.42,"text":"雖然剛才莊委員有說"},{"start":8464.42,"end":8466.42,"text":"反正各政黨就出租好了"},{"start":8466.42,"end":8467.42,"text":"可是"},{"start":8469.32,"end":8472.32,"text":"所以大家是針對這個規定"},{"start":8472.32,"end":8476.32,"text":"你們似乎在這個規定裡面沒有好好的遵守"},{"start":8476.32,"end":8478.32,"text":"而且已經有這個違法的情況"},{"start":8478.32,"end":8481.32,"text":"所以我們才有這樣子的一個質詢跟討論"},{"start":8481.32,"end":8482.32,"text":"所以這塊土地"},{"start":8482.32,"end":8486.32,"text":"如果按照申報地價來計算年租金的話"},{"start":8486.32,"end":8488.32,"text":"它是遠高於15萬元的"},{"start":8488.32,"end":8491.32,"text":"但是你們農水署的說法卻是"},{"start":8491.32,"end":8493.32,"text":"因為實際只使用了兩天"},{"start":8493.32,"end":8496.32,"text":"租金只有8萬1000元"},{"start":8497.32,"end":8499.32,"text":"所以可以盡予出租"},{"start":8499.32,"end":8500.32,"text":"都不用說了"},{"start":8500.32,"end":8502.32,"text":"你們在解釋法律"},{"start":8502.32,"end":8503.32,"text":"部長"},{"start":8503.32,"end":8504.32,"text":"對不起 次長"},{"start":8504.32,"end":8508.32,"text":"第19條所稱的年租金沒有達15萬元"},{"start":8508.32,"end":8513.32,"text":"那本席這邊認為是依照21條計算出來的年租金"},{"start":8513.32,"end":8515.32,"text":"那麼農業部也引述"},{"start":8515.32,"end":8518.32,"text":"農業部農田水利署石門管理處"},{"start":8518.32,"end":8520.32,"text":"非事業用地"},{"start":8520.77,"end":8522.77,"text":"出租的這個原則"},{"start":8522.77,"end":8524.77,"text":"的內部行政規則"},{"start":8524.77,"end":8526.77,"text":"而且只是一個行政規則"},{"start":8526.77,"end":8530.77,"text":"本席沒有看到農業部提出的折算公式"},{"start":8531.77,"end":8534.77,"text":"所以未來任何高價值的國有土地"},{"start":8534.77,"end":8536.77,"text":"是不是都會透過這樣的模式"},{"start":8536.77,"end":8539.77,"text":"來規避公開標誌"},{"start":8539.77,"end":8543.77,"text":"那這個解釋恐怕是造成制度很大的漏洞"},{"start":8544.86,"end":8547.86,"text":"那另外本席也關注所謂的公平性"},{"start":8547.86,"end":8550.86,"text":"那麼農水署是不是對所有政黨候選人"},{"start":8550.86,"end":8552.86,"text":"都使用一視同仁的申請"},{"start":8552.86,"end":8555.86,"text":"租金查定及場地使用的標準"},{"start":8555.86,"end":8558.86,"text":"那麼一般民眾如果申請同一塊"},{"start":8558.86,"end":8563.86,"text":"1655坪土地來辦理兩天的活動"},{"start":8563.86,"end":8567.86,"text":"那都是以81700元左右來承租嗎"},{"start":8567.86,"end":8569.86,"text":"那其他政黨候選人是不是也享有"},{"start":8569.86,"end":8573.86,"text":"完全相同的申請管道與條件"},{"start":8573.86,"end":8575.86,"text":"那你們之後也不要再說"},{"start":8575.86,"end":8577.86,"text":"因為有這個個案未來就不行"},{"start":8577.86,"end":8579.86,"text":"你不能先違法再簽"},{"start":8579.86,"end":8583.86,"text":"然後再用違法的情勢來排除其他的"},{"start":8584.59,"end":8586.59,"text":"公平的要求"},{"start":8586.59,"end":8590.59,"text":"所以本席認為農業部應該要把標準"},{"start":8590.59,"end":8593.59,"text":"還有計算的公式跟審查的流程"},{"start":8593.59,"end":8596.59,"text":"跟過去類似的短租出租案件"},{"start":8596.59,"end":8599.59,"text":"全部公開讓社會來檢驗"},{"start":8599.59,"end":8601.59,"text":"那我們不能說這次我們沒有審查"},{"start":8601.59,"end":8603.59,"text":"不知道短租長租"},{"start":8603.59,"end":8606.59,"text":"剛才莊惠元先生在幫你們想辦法"},{"start":8606.59,"end":8608.59,"text":"說應該在未來的檢討上"},{"start":8608.59,"end":8611.59,"text":"短租長租要有一些討論啊"},{"start":8611.59,"end":8612.59,"text":"然後再制定"},{"start":8612.59,"end":8614.59,"text":"但是已發生的已發生"},{"start":8614.59,"end":8616.59,"text":"那這樣子的爭議疑慮"},{"start":8616.59,"end":8618.59,"text":"應該讓社會各界所了解"},{"start":8619.1,"end":8621.1,"text":"所以"},{"start":8620.84,"end":8622.84,"text":"請市長做一個回應"},{"start":8650.84,"end":8652.84,"text":"那事實上這塊土地是因為"},{"start":8652.84,"end":8656.84,"text":"土地循收交換過來的這樣的"},{"start":8656.84,"end":8658.84,"text":"區分徵收交換過來的這樣的條件"},{"start":8658.84,"end":8660.84,"text":"所以他在今年的4月才點交"},{"start":8660.84,"end":8662.84,"text":"那所以我們其實也是希望"},{"start":8662.84,"end":8664.84,"text":"他做長期的這個活化"},{"start":8664.84,"end":8668.84,"text":"所以有委託公司在做長期活化的"},{"start":8668.84,"end":8669.84,"text":"這樣的一個規劃"},{"start":8669.84,"end":8671.84,"text":"那但是在這個規劃的過程裡面"},{"start":8671.84,"end":8672.84,"text":"目前已經在做規劃了嗎"},{"start":8672.84,"end":8674.84,"text":"對目前已經在規劃有標案了"},{"start":8674.84,"end":8676.84,"text":"那所以在做這個規劃的這個"},{"start":8676.84,"end":8678.84,"text":"空窗期這裡"},{"start":8678.84,"end":8680.84,"text":"有人提出來他要利用的這個部分"},{"start":8680.84,"end":8682.84,"text":"我們都非常的歡迎"},{"start":8682.84,"end":8685.84,"text":"那當然後面如果有整個那個要"},{"start":8685.84,"end":8688.84,"text":"長期的這個公開照標的那個案子的話"},{"start":8688.84,"end":8691.84,"text":"那當然就是那個時間點就會告一個中斷"},{"start":8691.84,"end":8693.84,"text":"所以本席也要求"},{"start":8693.84,"end":8697.84,"text":"如果還有其他單位提出來"},{"start":8697.84,"end":8699.84,"text":"你們不能以目前這個個案"},{"start":8699.84,"end":8702.84,"text":"作為規避的一個手段"},{"start":8702.84,"end":8705.84,"text":"那另外你們要確實的檢討"},{"start":8705.84,"end":8707.84,"text":"那其實是有內規的"},{"start":8707.84,"end":8709.84,"text":"就算是一個行政規則"},{"start":8709.84,"end":8711.84,"text":"也是有一個依循"},{"start":8711.84,"end":8712.84,"text":"也是有一個依循"},{"start":8712.84,"end":8715.84,"text":"所以應該不是沒有標準"},{"start":8715.84,"end":8717.84,"text":"然後大家在這裡面有誤失"},{"start":8717.84,"end":8720.84,"text":"所以就如同陳昭之委員所講的"},{"start":8720.84,"end":8722.84,"text":"你們是違法在先嘛"},{"start":8722.84,"end":8724.84,"text":"所以大家才會有這樣的疑慮嘛"},{"start":8724.84,"end":8725.84,"text":"好不好"},{"start":8725.84,"end":8726.84,"text":"所以很重要就是說"},{"start":8726.84,"end":8730.84,"text":"在選舉期間行政機關要讓大家相信"},{"start":8730.84,"end":8733.84,"text":"這個國國土地不是任何候選人的競選資源"},{"start":8733.84,"end":8736.84,"text":"那也不能因為申請人的政治身分"},{"start":8736.84,"end":8738.84,"text":"家庭背景或主管機關的關係"},{"start":8738.84,"end":8741.84,"text":"讓社會產生差別待遇的疑慮"},{"start":8741.84,"end":8744.84,"text":"我想這個部分就是我們今天討論這個主題"},{"start":8744.84,"end":8747.84,"text":"除了對於先前這個個案的一些微思"},{"start":8747.84,"end":8749.84,"text":"那我們也希望在接下來的"},{"start":8751.91,"end":8753.91,"text":"過程當中大家能夠被公平對待"},{"start":8753.91,"end":8755.91,"text":"然後最重要的是"},{"start":8755.91,"end":8757.91,"text":"當然很多委員也提出一些意見"},{"start":8757.91,"end":8759.91,"text":"假設你們要分短租或長租"},{"start":8759.91,"end":8762.91,"text":"那還是要有一個讓外界不會疑慮的標準"},{"start":8762.91,"end":8763.91,"text":"OK好謝謝"},{"start":8763.91,"end":8767.91,"text":"那就請相關單位回去做個檢討"},{"start":8767.91,"end":8768.91,"text":"那最後有一個"},{"start":8768.91,"end":8772.91,"text":"抱歉喔那個法務那個次長"},{"start":8772.91,"end":8773.91,"text":"不知道黃次長"},{"start":8773.91,"end":8775.91,"text":"那再請上來一下"},{"start":8777.85,"end":8779.85,"text":"很快的本期這邊要請教法務部"},{"start":8779.85,"end":8781.85,"text":"在擴大異科罰金跟"},{"start":8781.85,"end":8783.85,"text":"異輔社會搗動"},{"start":8783.85,"end":8786.85,"text":"跟還有放寬罰金分歧政策的這個問題"},{"start":8786.85,"end":8788.85,"text":"那目前地線的反應是說"},{"start":8788.85,"end":8791.85,"text":"這個監索的壓力雖然可能減輕"},{"start":8791.85,"end":8793.85,"text":"但是工作其實是沒有消失"},{"start":8793.85,"end":8794.85,"text":"他只是被挪移了"},{"start":8794.85,"end":8798.85,"text":"結果好像是移往了這個地檢署的執行科"},{"start":8798.85,"end":8800.85,"text":"書記官跟關戶人"},{"start":8800.85,"end":8801.85,"text":"那麼分歧繳納"},{"start":8801.85,"end":8803.85,"text":"因為每一期都要追蹤列管"},{"start":8803.85,"end":8805.85,"text":"那如果沒有暗示繳"},{"start":8805.85,"end":8806.85,"text":"又要催繳"},{"start":8806.85,"end":8808.85,"text":"那麼傳喚具體呢"},{"start":8808.85,"end":8809.85,"text":"又要重新通緝"},{"start":8809.85,"end":8811.85,"text":"有的時候會要重新通緝"},{"start":8811.85,"end":8813.85,"text":"那所以呢整個"},{"start":8813.85,"end":8815.85,"text":"已經通緝了具體到案的受刑人"},{"start":8815.85,"end":8820.85,"text":"可能還又可能再進入到這個分歧審核的一個程序"},{"start":8820.85,"end":8822.85,"text":"那我們試圖想要減輕一些事情"},{"start":8822.85,"end":8825.85,"text":"可是這個可能這個單位減輕了"},{"start":8825.85,"end":8826.85,"text":"結果又變成另外一個單位"},{"start":8826.85,"end":8831.85,"text":"那這個增加了一些比較詳盡的這個手段"},{"start":8831.85,"end":8835.85,"text":"結果又增加了其他一些反覆的這個"},{"start":8835.85,"end":8837.85,"text":"步驟"},{"start":8837.85,"end":8839.85,"text":"所以法務部在推動這項政策的時候"},{"start":8839.85,"end":8841.85,"text":"有沒有事先估算過"},{"start":8841.85,"end":8844.85,"text":"每增加一件分歧的案件"},{"start":8844.85,"end":8846.85,"text":"那社會勞動的案件"},{"start":8846.85,"end":8848.85,"text":"會增加多少執行科書記官"},{"start":8848.85,"end":8850.85,"text":"關戶人的一個行政負擔"},{"start":8850.85,"end":8851.85,"text":"那另外呢"},{"start":8851.85,"end":8852.85,"text":"在高檢署的會議裡面"},{"start":8852.85,"end":8854.85,"text":"也有檢察官反應"},{"start":8854.85,"end":8856.85,"text":"現在的這個案管系統"},{"start":8856.85,"end":8859.85,"text":"雖然有到期了會警示"},{"start":8859.85,"end":8862.85,"text":"但是實務上不一定會正常跳出提醒"},{"start":8862.85,"end":8863.85,"text":"那現在政策擴大"},{"start":8863.85,"end":8864.85,"text":"案件量又增加"},{"start":8864.85,"end":8868.85,"text":"那最後還是會有這個漏追漏吹"},{"start":8868.85,"end":8871.85,"text":"甚至已經在執行的案件又失控"},{"start":8871.85,"end":8873.85,"text":"那法務部也沒有設定期程"},{"start":8873.85,"end":8875.85,"text":"把案管的系統分歧警示"},{"start":8875.85,"end":8879.85,"text":"違約提醒還有催繳追蹤的這個功能"},{"start":8879.85,"end":8881.85,"text":"全面做一個修正改善"},{"start":8881.85,"end":8884.85,"text":"那另外在去年每一年"},{"start":8884.85,"end":8887.85,"text":"就是2025年的每一名關戶人"},{"start":8887.85,"end":8889.85,"text":"平均受理的案件已經超過500件"},{"start":8889.85,"end":8890.85,"text":"那近五年來呢"},{"start":8890.85,"end":8892.85,"text":"社會勞動的案件成長量是"},{"start":8892.85,"end":8894.85,"text":"17.4%"},{"start":8894.85,"end":8897.85,"text":"那麼整個比現在整個社會勞動的案件"},{"start":8897.85,"end":8899.85,"text":"還在持續的增加"},{"start":8899.85,"end":8901.85,"text":"那是不是要同步去處理"},{"start":8901.85,"end":8904.85,"text":"人力跟執行機構量能的問題"},{"start":8905.9,"end":8907.9,"text":"市長這邊是不是可以先做一個回應"},{"start":8907.9,"end":8908.9,"text":"那個疫情處分"},{"start":8908.9,"end":8911.9,"text":"基本上我們是對那些經濟上的弱勢者"},{"start":8911.9,"end":8914.9,"text":"不應該把他就是因為他經濟上的困難"},{"start":8914.9,"end":8915.9,"text":"而把他入監服刑"},{"start":8915.9,"end":8917.9,"text":"所以我們這個基本上的政策"},{"start":8917.9,"end":8919.9,"text":"是針對他經濟上的弱者"},{"start":8919.9,"end":8921.9,"text":"我們提高他的分歧的起訴"},{"start":8921.9,"end":8924.9,"text":"讓他比較能夠籌出一顆髮巾的錢"},{"start":8924.9,"end":8926.9,"text":"不要因為你是經濟上弱者"},{"start":8926.9,"end":8928.9,"text":"就必須要現實的入監服刑"},{"start":8928.9,"end":8929.9,"text":"這個是我們"},{"start":8929.9,"end":8932.9,"text":"他一旦這個有錢可以籌得多奇"},{"start":8932.9,"end":8934.9,"text":"他可以一顆髮巾出去"},{"start":8934.9,"end":8936.9,"text":"他就不會進到監獄"},{"start":8936.9,"end":8940.9,"text":"當然這個會增加數據觀檢察官相關的行政工作"},{"start":8940.9,"end":8941.9,"text":"當然會"},{"start":8941.9,"end":8944.9,"text":"因為他從我們就從8期讓他延期到12期"},{"start":8944.9,"end":8946.9,"text":"當然他會增加一些行政上的成本沒有錯"},{"start":8946.9,"end":8948.9,"text":"但這個行政成本來講"},{"start":8948.9,"end":8950.9,"text":"我們另外有一些相配套的措施"},{"start":8950.9,"end":8952.9,"text":"我們讓他延長之後"},{"start":8952.9,"end":8954.9,"text":"我們也鬆綁了相關數據觀管考"},{"start":8954.9,"end":8956.9,"text":"跟相關的管考上的壓力"},{"start":8956.9,"end":8958.9,"text":"我們以前辦案都一定的辦案期限"},{"start":8958.9,"end":8959.9,"text":"我們辦案延長之後"},{"start":8959.9,"end":8961.9,"text":"我們也讓數據觀的辦案期限延長"},{"start":8961.9,"end":8963.9,"text":"我們管考也鬆綁"},{"start":8963.9,"end":8967.9,"text":"讓數據觀監察官願意做這個疫情的處分"},{"start":8967.9,"end":8971.9,"text":"所以他的確會增加數據觀一些相關行政成本"},{"start":8971.9,"end":8973.9,"text":"但是在行政檢察行政上面"},{"start":8973.9,"end":8975.9,"text":"我們也鬆綁他相關的管制"},{"start":8975.9,"end":8976.9,"text":"這第一點"},{"start":8976.9,"end":8978.9,"text":"第二點您提到的就是說"},{"start":8978.9,"end":8981.9,"text":"那這個政策會不會有其他相配套的"},{"start":8981.9,"end":8983.9,"text":"當然我們一旦的增加"},{"start":8983.9,"end":8986.9,"text":"他義服社會勞動的這個可能性之後"},{"start":8986.9,"end":8988.9,"text":"我們就要多一些社會勞動的機構"},{"start":8988.9,"end":8990.9,"text":"讓他可以去做這社會勞動的機構"},{"start":8990.9,"end":8994.9,"text":"所以我們也要求全國各地檢署的檢察官檢察長們"},{"start":8994.9,"end":8998.9,"text":"你要去廣泛的去找一些比較優質的社會勞動機構"},{"start":8998.9,"end":9002.9,"text":"讓這些社勞人以後可以去從事相關的社勞工作"},{"start":9002.9,"end":9006.9,"text":"所以這是我們也是要求他們比較相關配合的"},{"start":9006.9,"end":9007.9,"text":"另外我已經提到的"},{"start":9007.9,"end":9009.9,"text":"我們推行這個政策之後"},{"start":9009.9,"end":9011.9,"text":"我們一些行政上的一些措施要配套"},{"start":9011.9,"end":9014.9,"text":"剛剛我提到一些當然是非常精細的"},{"start":9014.9,"end":9015.9,"text":"非常細節的部分"},{"start":9015.9,"end":9017.9,"text":"細節的部分 數據性的部分"},{"start":9017.9,"end":9020.9,"text":"包括一些電腦相關的設備"},{"start":9020.9,"end":9023.9,"text":"要不要有一些處理會不會碰到一些困難"},{"start":9023.9,"end":9027.9,"text":"因為這個政策我們推行大概現在大概兩三個月"},{"start":9027.9,"end":9030.9,"text":"他只整個由台高檢所主機負責統籌"},{"start":9030.9,"end":9033.9,"text":"那如果細節上有委員應該提到的"},{"start":9033.9,"end":9035.9,"text":"電腦或系統上要做配合的"},{"start":9035.9,"end":9038.9,"text":"我相信台高檢在施行政策一陣子之後"},{"start":9038.9,"end":9042.9,"text":"他會做出相關的修正或做相關的檢討跟改進"},{"start":9043.51,"end":9045.51,"text":"所以本席在這邊今天有提出來"},{"start":9045.51,"end":9047.51,"text":"那我也希望就是台高檢這邊"},{"start":9047.51,"end":9049.51,"text":"因為本席提出"},{"start":9049.51,"end":9052.51,"text":"所以他也要趕快一起follow"},{"start":9052.51,"end":9053.51,"text":"那這個政策的一個細節"},{"start":9053.51,"end":9056.51,"text":"那既然會有這樣第一線人員反應"},{"start":9056.51,"end":9058.51,"text":"應該在你們政策執行上"},{"start":9058.51,"end":9061.51,"text":"雖然也有放寬了一些條件"},{"start":9061.51,"end":9065.51,"text":"但是或許在條件跟這個政策的執行上"},{"start":9065.51,"end":9068.51,"text":"還沒有達到比例一致的這個平衡"},{"start":9068.51,"end":9071.51,"text":"所以會有現在這樣一個狀況"},{"start":9071.51,"end":9074.51,"text":"所以或許你們也應該是在檢視一下"},{"start":9074.51,"end":9076.51,"text":"那麼你們所放寬的這個期限"},{"start":9076.51,"end":9079.51,"text":"或是放寬的相對措施"},{"start":9079.51,"end":9082.51,"text":"是不是真的符合目前第一線的狀況"},{"start":9082.51,"end":9084.51,"text":"那我想雖然是進行了幾個月"},{"start":9084.51,"end":9086.51,"text":"既然本席這邊提出來"},{"start":9086.51,"end":9089.51,"text":"那我想你們可以同步的在觀察目前的一個狀況"},{"start":9089.51,"end":9092.51,"text":"然後未來如果真的需要再做一些調整的"},{"start":9092.51,"end":9094.51,"text":"那也是聽聽第一線的人員"},{"start":9094.51,"end":9096.51,"text":"看看目前的狀況如何"},{"start":9096.51,"end":9098.51,"text":"所以當然最重要就是說"},{"start":9098.51,"end":9100.51,"text":"本席這邊也支持疫情的政策"},{"start":9100.51,"end":9103.51,"text":"但是不能只做到讓人不要進監所"},{"start":9103.51,"end":9107.51,"text":"但整個政策執行又陷入這個混亂的不確定當中"},{"start":9107.51,"end":9109.51,"text":"那重點就是說"},{"start":9109.51,"end":9112.51,"text":"監所的減壓不能成為地檢署的這個加壓"},{"start":9112.51,"end":9115.51,"text":"那我們也當然知道我們人類"},{"start":9115.51,"end":9119.51,"text":"人力的這個匱乏是我們現在整體的問題"},{"start":9119.51,"end":9122.51,"text":"那每一個領域都有它不同的一個強度"},{"start":9122.51,"end":9124.51,"text":"但是長期性的問題"},{"start":9124.51,"end":9126.51,"text":"我們也是必須要在短期性的政策推動上"},{"start":9126.51,"end":9130.51,"text":"然後檢視然後去做一個比較細節性的處理"},{"start":9130.51,"end":9132.51,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":9134.3,"end":9136.3,"text":"好 謝謝林慶徐委員"},{"start":9140.96,"end":9144.96,"text":"我們下一位是政政前委員"},{"start":9145.1,"end":9147.1,"text":"政政前委員"},{"start":9147.65,"end":9149.65,"text":"政政前委員"},{"start":9150.01,"end":9152.01,"text":"不在"},{"start":9151.17,"end":9153.17,"text":"那再請下一位是泛影委員"},{"start":9153.17,"end":9155.17,"text":"請進行您的答詩"},{"start":9155.17,"end":9157.17,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9158.41,"end":9160.41,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9166.41,"end":9168.41,"text":"謝謝昭偉"},{"start":9168.41,"end":9170.41,"text":"有請法務部次長黃次長"},{"start":9170.41,"end":9172.41,"text":"黃次長"},{"start":9174.61,"end":9176.61,"text":"委員好"},{"start":9176.61,"end":9178.61,"text":"次長早安"},{"start":9178.61,"end":9180.61,"text":"首先謝謝昭偉排今天這個主題"},{"start":9180.61,"end":9184.61,"text":"那因為關於公務機關如何保持行政中立的部分"},{"start":9184.61,"end":9188.61,"text":"那我非常的贊同剛剛莊瑞選委員講的"},{"start":9188.61,"end":9190.61,"text":"那我的意見也跟他就是一致"},{"start":9190.61,"end":9192.61,"text":"那關於會選的部分"},{"start":9192.61,"end":9194.61,"text":"我昨天有質詢過部長了"},{"start":9194.61,"end":9196.61,"text":"那今天我想"},{"start":9196.61,"end":9200.61,"text":"針對一個我長期監督的議題想跟次長請教"},{"start":9200.61,"end":9202.61,"text":"那請問次長"},{"start":9202.61,"end":9204.61,"text":"您覺得檢察官的培訓"},{"start":9204.61,"end":9206.61,"text":"性平意識"},{"start":9206.61,"end":9208.61,"text":"他的賠力現在跟上了嗎"},{"start":9208.61,"end":9210.61,"text":"效果如何"},{"start":9210.61,"end":9212.61,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":9212.61,"end":9214.61,"text":"有關於檢察官性平意識的培訓"},{"start":9214.61,"end":9216.61,"text":"那分兩個部分"},{"start":9216.61,"end":9218.61,"text":"兩部分跟委員報告"},{"start":9218.61,"end":9220.61,"text":"當然是在我們檢察官的養成的階段"},{"start":9220.61,"end":9222.61,"text":"就是在我們的司法官訓練的部分"},{"start":9222.61,"end":9224.61,"text":"學院的部分"},{"start":9224.61,"end":9226.61,"text":"另外一部分當然是我們在職的部分"},{"start":9226.61,"end":9228.61,"text":"在檢察官學院的部分"},{"start":9228.61,"end":9230.61,"text":"性平點意識的課程"},{"start":9230.61,"end":9232.61,"text":"我們這個社長學院"},{"start":9232.61,"end":9234.61,"text":"類似的課程"},{"start":9234.61,"end":9236.61,"text":"我現在手上的資料近三年來他已經辦了"},{"start":9236.61,"end":9238.61,"text":"三十一場"},{"start":9238.61,"end":9240.61,"text":"甚至有一千多人已經有參與相關的培訓的課程"},{"start":9240.61,"end":9242.61,"text":"這是有關於"},{"start":9242.61,"end":9244.61,"text":"新進"},{"start":9244.61,"end":9246.61,"text":"檢察官的培訓的部分"},{"start":9246.61,"end":9248.61,"text":"那在職檢察官的部分我們也不能夠放棄"},{"start":9248.61,"end":9250.61,"text":"在職檢察官的部分他更重要"},{"start":9250.61,"end":9252.61,"text":"因為在職檢察官的部分我們除了"},{"start":9252.61,"end":9254.61,"text":"我們注意到這個性別平權的問題"},{"start":9254.61,"end":9256.61,"text":"所以我們相關有關性別平權的案件"},{"start":9256.61,"end":9258.61,"text":"我們基本上就分給我們專屬的檢察官"},{"start":9258.61,"end":9260.61,"text":"我們檢察官有分專屬"},{"start":9260.61,"end":9262.61,"text":"專屬就有婦幼的專屬"},{"start":9262.61,"end":9264.61,"text":"專屬的檢察官他做專門的訓練的檢察官"},{"start":9264.61,"end":9266.61,"text":"他有專門知識經驗的檢察官"},{"start":9266.61,"end":9268.61,"text":"來做相關的"},{"start":9268.61,"end":9270.61,"text":"這個案件的偵辦"},{"start":9270.61,"end":9272.61,"text":"但是專屬的檢察官我們在日常的"},{"start":9272.61,"end":9274.61,"text":"我們在職的訓練我們也不斷的"},{"start":9274.61,"end":9276.61,"text":"提供相關的在職的訓練的課程"},{"start":9276.61,"end":9278.61,"text":"或國際上的這些"},{"start":9278.61,"end":9280.61,"text":"研討會我們要求我們在職檢察官"},{"start":9280.61,"end":9282.61,"text":"也必須要參與"},{"start":9282.61,"end":9284.61,"text":"但是參與的各個安排上面"},{"start":9284.61,"end":9286.61,"text":"我們也要注意到性平意識"},{"start":9286.61,"end":9288.61,"text":"我們也常常邀請NGO來當我們的講師"},{"start":9288.61,"end":9290.61,"text":"由這個NGO的角度"},{"start":9290.61,"end":9292.61,"text":"來灌輸我們相關的性平意識"},{"start":9292.61,"end":9294.61,"text":"所以這部分我們從多重管道去做處理"},{"start":9294.61,"end":9296.61,"text":"你們的確有上課了"},{"start":9296.61,"end":9298.61,"text":"那我比較關心的是說"},{"start":9298.61,"end":9300.61,"text":"那上課了效果到底是好還不好"},{"start":9300.61,"end":9302.61,"text":"有沒有譬如說本來沒有性別敏感度的"},{"start":9302.61,"end":9304.61,"text":"上了課之後"},{"start":9304.61,"end":9306.61,"text":"是不是真的有性別敏感度"},{"start":9306.61,"end":9308.61,"text":"因為我其實也偶爾會受邀"},{"start":9308.61,"end":9310.61,"text":"還沒有從政之前去幫忙上課"},{"start":9310.61,"end":9312.61,"text":"那其實講師到底是怎樣"},{"start":9312.61,"end":9314.61,"text":"那其實講師到底是怎樣"},{"start":9314.61,"end":9316.61,"text":"那其實講師到底講得好不好"},{"start":9316.61,"end":9318.61,"text":"那大家有沒有在滑手機在聽"},{"start":9318.61,"end":9320.61,"text":"其實差異會很大"},{"start":9320.61,"end":9322.61,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":9322.61,"end":9324.61,"text":"其實我相信我們司法官"},{"start":9324.61,"end":9326.61,"text":"他的數字是非常好的"},{"start":9326.61,"end":9328.61,"text":"那如果說相關的課程"},{"start":9328.61,"end":9330.61,"text":"只要有這個課程"},{"start":9330.61,"end":9332.61,"text":"我們國家注重這一塊"},{"start":9332.61,"end":9334.61,"text":"其中檢察官他都會非常在意這一塊"},{"start":9334.61,"end":9336.61,"text":"更何況我們課程"},{"start":9336.61,"end":9338.61,"text":"我們整個在職也好"},{"start":9338.61,"end":9340.61,"text":"學院也好這麼重視這個課程"},{"start":9340.61,"end":9342.61,"text":"我們的檢察官他是會非常在意"},{"start":9342.61,"end":9344.61,"text":"這個意識的養成"},{"start":9344.61,"end":9346.61,"text":"跟相關技能的這個"},{"start":9346.61,"end":9348.61,"text":"現在我比較擔心的就是說"},{"start":9348.61,"end":9350.61,"text":"如果只是次長覺得"},{"start":9350.61,"end":9352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text":"量化跟質化多一點我們會來反映"},{"start":9958.4,"end":9960.4,"text":"那你會幫人家好好研議專屬的教材"},{"start":9960.4,"end":9962.4,"text":"這樣會有沒有可能做到呢"},{"start":9962.4,"end":9964.4,"text":"我會把委員的意見跟委員來報告"},{"start":9964.4,"end":9966.4,"text":"第三個有關檢核機制的部分"},{"start":9966.4,"end":9968.4,"text":"當然課程的調查"},{"start":9968.4,"end":9970.4,"text":"滿意度的部分不能代表他的KPI"},{"start":9970.4,"end":9972.4,"text":"所以說我們現在"},{"start":9972.4,"end":9974.4,"text":"剛剛委員提到稀抖的部分"},{"start":9974.4,"end":9976.4,"text":"所以現在國際學者或我們相關量化的數據"},{"start":9976.4,"end":9978.4,"text":"都要求說你在判決裡面"},{"start":9978.4,"end":9980.4,"text":"引用多少的稀抖的"},{"start":9980.4,"end":9982.4,"text":"我上次已經質詢過了非常少"},{"start":9982.4,"end":9984.4,"text":"我們檢察官引用多少"},{"start":9984.4,"end":9986.4,"text":"我意思說包委員就是說"},{"start":9986.4,"end":9988.4,"text":"律師引用比較多"},{"start":9988.4,"end":9990.4,"text":"檢察官法官還好法官很糟"},{"start":9990.4,"end":9992.4,"text":"經過性別意識的質量的提升之後"},{"start":9992.4,"end":9994.4,"text":"他其實可以反映在判決"},{"start":9994.4,"end":9996.4,"text":"或反映在書類裡面去引用"},{"start":9996.4,"end":9998.4,"text":"其實現在慢慢"},{"start":9998.4,"end":10000.4,"text":"越來越多檢察官也好法官也好"},{"start":10000.4,"end":10002.4,"text":"在判決或起訴書後"},{"start":10002.4,"end":10004.4,"text":"除非是引用了稀抖"},{"start":10004.4,"end":10006.4,"text":"法官很少我上次有質詢"},{"start":10006.4,"end":10008.4,"text":"檢察官多一點雖然比較多的是律師"},{"start":10008.4,"end":10010.4,"text":"但他這次慢慢改變"},{"start":10010.4,"end":10012.4,"text":"他已經從量變變成質變"},{"start":10012.4,"end":10014.4,"text":"我們沒有那麼多時間"},{"start":10014.4,"end":10016.4,"text":"我們要讓法官跟法官"},{"start":10016.4,"end":10018.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10018.4,"end":10020.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10020.4,"end":10022.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10022.4,"end":10024.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10024.4,"end":10026.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10026.4,"end":10028.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10028.4,"end":10030.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10030.4,"end":10032.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10032.4,"end":10034.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10034.4,"end":10036.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10036.4,"end":10038.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10038.4,"end":10040.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10040.4,"end":10042.4,"text":"跟法官的同學"},{"start":10042.4,"end":10044.4,"text":"你怎麼做好不好"},{"start":10044.4,"end":10046.4,"text":"謝謝次長"},{"start":10045.74,"end":10047.74,"text":"謝謝法官"},{"start":10049.1,"end":10051.1,"text":"我們請下一位"},{"start":10051.1,"end":10053.1,"text":"蘇清泉委員"},{"start":10053.3,"end":10055.3,"text":"蘇清泉委員"},{"start":10055.3,"end":10057.3,"text":"蘇清泉委員"},{"start":10059.09,"end":10061.09,"text":"蘇清泉委員"},{"start":10061.32,"end":10063.32,"text":"所有登記發言的委員均於發言完畢"},{"start":10065.22,"end":10067.22,"text":"詢答結束"},{"start":10067.22,"end":10071.22,"text":"委員諮詢時要求提供的相關資料或書面答覆者"},{"start":10071.22,"end":10073.22,"text":"請相關機關儘速送交"},{"start":10073.22,"end":10075.22,"text":"各委員基本會"},{"start":10077.05,"end":10079.05,"text":"不好意思"},{"start":10082.46,"end":10084.46,"text":"委員蔡其昌審發會"},{"start":10084.46,"end":10086.46,"text":"徐宇蓁富坤啟吳宗憲"},{"start":10086.46,"end":10088.46,"text":"所提的書面質詢"},{"start":10088.46,"end":10090.46,"text":"列入記錄刊登公報"},{"start":10090.46,"end":10092.46,"text":"並請相關機關以書面來答覆"},{"start":10094.92,"end":10096.92,"text":"今日議程所列事項報告及詢答完畢"},{"start":10096.92,"end":10098.92,"text":"本次會議進行到此結束"},{"start":10098.92,"end":10100.92,"text":"現在散會"},{"start":10100.92,"end":10102.92,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10105.79,"end":10107.79,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}